# Update parts on 05 F250



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Hello im wanting to add plowing as a service for my customers so far i have 25 residental and 2 banks for this upcoming season. The plow i plan on purchasing is going to be a 8.2 Vplow my ATM lanes at the banks will not acomadate a 9.2 plus figured that might be to much plow for a f250. I will take advice on plow to purchase as well.

My question is this i have a 2005 F250 bulletproofed 6.0 that just turned 127k the truck has a 2in leveling kit on 35x12.5x20s im also looking for recomendations for anoter set of tires and cheap rim to change out for the winter. My 35 degons are **** in the snow. 

What things i should be replacing to prepare the truck for this upcoming season. Im planning on new wiring and 275 alt.Im also planning on adding timbrens. What are some other things i should be thinking about? Thanks Jeramy


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

As far as the plow, what brand are your closest dealers? Rear counter weight/ballast. Air bags up front, timbrensmake the ride hard. Figure out a back up plan. There is no such thing as a bullet proof 6.0. just my opinion.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Randall Ave said:


> As far as the plow, what brand are your closest dealers? Rear counter weight/ballast. Air bags up front, timbrensmake the ride hard. Figure out a back up plan. There is no such thing as a bullet proof 6.0. just my opinion.


I have a Boss dealer 10 miles from me. To be honest probably the route i am going to go just cause this dealer is exceptional when it comes to knoledge & customer service western is in my town but these guys just dont ever have anything in stock i bought some power equipment from them before since they gave me one heck of a deal. But everytime i go in there and ask for something they dont have it. So the main reason for going Boss is the dealer is just more reliable and i feel like hetter CS.

What air bags do you recomend?

As far as for the 6.0 so many subjective opinions it is crazy. But i will be honest i love the fact people think the way they do. There fear of the unknown is why educated 6.0 owners think the way we do.

Do you have any other things i should consider? Im always open ears. Thanks Jeramy


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I wouldn't waste time/money on front air bags. 

I would also put a set of boss wings on that 8'2" plow. Makes a huge difference in productivity and they're easy to remove for the drive throughs. 

Have a backup truck, or someone with a backup truck, that can cover your stuff when something goes wrong. Notice, that is a WHEN, not an if. It will happen, and it will likely happen at the worst possible time.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

I wouldn't worry about the width of the drive-through lanes. All of my plows are too wide to fit through drive throughs. I just pull up from each side and back drag it away. Bank drive throughs are almost always covered by a roof, so very little snow gets in the actual lanes under the roof. And if there is a little there, salt the piss out of it. And you may want to consider salting as well. I think you'll have a hard time finding a commercial customer that will want you to plow if they just have to find another vendor to salt their lots.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> I have a Boss dealer 10 miles from me. To be honest probably the route i am going to go just cause this dealer is exceptional when it comes to knoledge & customer service western is in my town but these guys just dont ever have anything in stock i bought some power equipment from them before since they gave me one heck of a deal. But everytime i go in there and ask for something they dont have it. So the main reason for going Boss is the dealer is just more reliable and i feel like hetter CS.
> 
> What air bags do you recomend?
> 
> ...


I would have a back up plan in place. Me, I like Western plows. Check your spring rates, maby a heavier spring. I am not going to get into a 6.0 debate. I fix this stuff for a living.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

JustJeff said:


> I wouldn't worry about the width of the drive-through lanes. All of my plows are too wide to fit through drive throughs. I just pull up from each side and back drag it away. Bank drive throughs are almost always covered by a roof, so very little snow gets in the actual lanes under the roof. And if there is a little there, salt the piss out of it. And you may want to consider salting as well. I think you'll have a hard time finding a commercial customer that will want you to plow if they just have to find another vendor to salt their lots.


Yea except when you have 40 mph winds


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Some situations are just out of my control.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JustJeff said:


> Some situations are just out of my control.


That's my go to line when the warden asks " what were you thinking"....


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Randall Ave said:


> I would have a back up plan in place. Me, I like Western plows. Check your spring rates, maby a heavier spring. I am not going to get into a 6.0 debate. I fix this stuff for a living.


 You can get a bad diesel in any of them as well as gas. I think we had covered this issue with the 6.0 over the years. Just so many 6.0 on the side of the road and the ones for sale with announced issues. And lets not forget Oomkes opinion.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Thanks for the input guys. 

Can someone link me to some good threads comparing the different brands of plows. Thinking Hiniker Fisher Western or Boss.

Fisher Western dealer is in my town dealer is not very reliable when it comes to mowers and power equipment.
Hiniker is 30 miles from not sure about them never been there.
Boss dealer is 10 miles from me. This dealer i have spoke with and they seem like a good place so far.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

You should always have a basic understanding of how whatever brand you buy functions and how to do basic troubleshooting. You should also always have spare hoses/fluid, springs, relays, solenoids, and a controller.

Brands are fiercely defended/propped up by their respective users. Bottom line is any commercially known plow will do what you need it to, and they're all going to be fairly similar in price. If you've got a good dealer for a certain brand, that would be the route I would go in. Just make sure you have the spare parts etc. 

Did we mention you need a backup plan?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Did we mention you need a backup plan?


I would recommend that your backup plan does not involve a 6.0 in it...

I understand that you are educated in 6.0 from your previous post. I too am educated in 6.0's... but most of my education involved my checkbook to my mechanic, the tow truck guy, and the auto parts store.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

I'd say if you aren't subcontracting, have a backup truck that is NOT diesel, it snows when it's cold and when it's cold diesel gels up. I know some of the larger outfits around me were calling me asking if I was available with my v10 because all their diesels (even the bobcats) were telling up, even with the additives. There's many cheap plow trucks on Craigslist that are good "lot trucks", might not hurt to buy one, might save your a$$ in a pinch. I had a 6.0, blew the head gasket at 172k miles in an excursion that was never worked hard...


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Damn, I'd better start trading in trucks for gas models now.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

JustJeff said:


> Damn, I'd better start trading in trucks for gas models now.


My buddy was running my 7.3 at the same time, it was barking and running rough so he doubled the anti gel and it started to run smoother. I'm not anti diesel or anything, I'm just saying when it hit 0 degrees Fahrenheit in the Philly area, there were diesel trucks, Ford, Chevy, Dodge broken down on the side of the road.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

I've had 1 truck gel up 1 time in the last 15-17 years, and it was my own fault for forgetting to treat the fuel.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JustJeff said:


> I've had 1 truck gel up 1 time in the last 15-17 years, and it was my own fault for forgetting to treat the fuel.


Aside from our fuel supplier's grand malfunction this past winter, we've only had a couple minor issues. Diesel 911 fixed both.

Personally, I believe if you have gelling issues at 0* the fuel was junk to begin with.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Aside from our fuel supplier's grand malfunction this past winter, we've only had a couple minor issues. Diesel 911 fixed both.
> 
> Personally, I believe if you have gelling issues at 0* the fuel was junk to begin with.


The diesel around me is definitely low quality, if I don't treat my diesel around 30 degrees I have issues


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Aside from our fuel supplier's grand malfunction this past winter, we've only had a couple minor issues. Diesel 911 fixed both.
> 
> Personally, I believe if you have gelling issues at 0* the fuel was junk to begin with.


That's true to an extent....The slightest bit of water can cause freeze up problems in fuel lines or filters...The company I'm with has over 350 pieces of equipment rolling..Fuel comes from the same supplier...Some trucks will have issues at low temps...Some will not...I'm a firm believer in treating the fuel when extreme temperatures are forecasted...It's just another line of defense...Another preventive measure is checking the fuel water seperator daily


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Collision said:


> The diesel around me is definitely low quality, if I don't treat my diesel around 30 degrees I have issues


I would look for a new supplier if that's the case


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Back to the OP original question, I think your truck should be fine, it's still very low mileage, keep your fuel water separator clean, change your filters recently, and you'll be fine. I highly recommend getting wings for the plow, they reduce your clean up time, and 9 times out of 10, there is no snow in the drive throughs, and usually there is so little snow you can just shovel it quickly or just salt it down. Good luck, I would go with whatever dealer has the best support, and it sounds like your local boss dealer has the best support


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Collision said:


> The diesel around me is definitely low quality, if I don't treat my diesel around 30 degrees I have issues


As has been stated already, if that's the case you need to source your fuel elsewhere.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Collision said:


> if I don't treat my diesel around 30 degrees I have issues


Guessing the fuel you are using is a BioDiesel... am I correct?


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Philbilly2 said:


> Guessing the fuel you are using is a BioDiesel... am I correct?


Nope, they sell it as normal diesel, but I have more issues with it than anything, I think it's watered down with biodiesel by 10 percent at least. Whenever I take the truck on a trip and fill up out of state, I get way better fuel economy and power, plus less smoke


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Collision said:


> Nope, they sell it as normal diesel, but I have more issues with it than anything, I think it's watered down with biodiesel by 10 percent at least. Whenever I take the truck on a trip and fill up out of state, I get way better fuel economy and power, plus less smoke


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Collision said:


> Nope, they sell it as normal diesel, but I have more issues with it than anything, I think it's watered down with biodiesel by 10 percent at least. Whenever I take the truck on a trip and fill up out of state, I get way better fuel economy and power, plus less smoke


Ummmm...that's biodiesel and your problem.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> I would recommend that your backup plan does not involve a 6.0 in it...
> 
> I understand that you are educated in 6.0 from your previous post. I too am educated in 6.0's... but most of my education involved my checkbook to my mechanic, the tow truck guy, and the auto parts store.


First part I would replace is the engine.

Then again, I'm uneducated on 6.0s. Although I stopped getting Christmas cards and calendars from my tow company when I got rid of my last 6.0. Not sure what that meant.

Get the Boss, just don't get an EXT.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> As far as for the 6.0 so many subjective opinions it is crazy. But i will be honest i love the fact people think the way they do. There fear of the unknown is why educated 6.0 owners think the way we do.


Maybe you could define "the fear of the unknown".

Or what an "educated 6.0 owner" is?

Or why you consider ownership of 1 or more 6.0s to be "subjective"?

Or how you know anything about any of us and can make the claim that we are uneducated and subjective after being on this forum for a whole 3 weeks.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Maybe you could define "the fear of the unknown".
> 
> Or what an "educated 6.0 owner" is?
> 
> ...


You need to watch your "tone"....You have been back a whole three days and your getting all riled up again.....Epic Tantrum is right around the corner


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Defcon 5 said:


> You need to watch your "tone"....You have been back a whole three days and your getting all riled up again.....Epic Tantrum is right around the corner


 To much Man love, you guys are brutalized to each other. LMAO


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Maybe you could define "the fear of the unknown".
> 
> Or what an "educated 6.0 owner" is?
> 
> ...


Honestly I gave up on this thread as soon as it turned into a 6.0 debate. I'm not here to argue prove why I like the 6.0. I was merely asking what would one do to get his f250 ready for a plow. Once it went to a 6.0 debate I signed off. If you have anything constructive to add feel free but I'm not wasting my time debating the 6.0 have a good day


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

FredG said:


> To much Man love, you guys are brutalized to each other. LMAO


Man Hate Fred....He is a pompous arrogant manchild


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

What you need to get the F250 ready for a plow is....Put the plow on...Make sure you have Jumper Cables...A tow strap and the number of the local tow company


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> Honestly I gave up on this thread as soon as it turned into a 6.0 debate. I'm not here to argue prove why I like the 6.0. I was merely asking what would one do to get his f250 ready for a plow. Once it went to a 6.0 debate I signed off. If you have anything constructive to add feel free but I'm not wasting my time debating the 6.0 have a good day


I did provide advice. Not just about the 6.0 either.

You're welcome.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JT&SONS said:


> Honestly I gave up on this thread as soon as it turned into a 6.0 debate. I'm not here to argue prove why I like the 6.0. I was merely asking what would one do to get his f250 ready for a plow. Once it went to a 6.0 debate I signed off. If you have anything constructive to add feel free but I'm not wasting my time debating the 6.0 have a good day


 Look you stated bullet proof 6.0, so i'm thinking you already know the negativity of the 6.0. Furthermore plenty of professional mechanics responding or contractors that the 6.0 sent half broke and the embarrassment that goes with it.

You think you got negative responses go back and read your own. You can actually learn something here if you put your sensitivity behind you. For the record have a solid backup plan. The questions you were looking for were pretty much answered. Keep believing in the 6.0 if that is your wish or any diesel for that matter. You can have trouble with anything coming from the big 3. Good Luck


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

FredG said:


> Look you stated bullet proof 6.0, so i'm thinking you already know the negativity of the 6.0. Furthermore plenty of professional mechanics responding or contractors that the 6.0 sent half broke and the embarrassment that goes with it.
> 
> You think you got negative responses go back and read your own. You can actually learn something here if you put your sensitivity behind you. For the record have a solid backup plan. The questions you were looking for were pretty much answered. Keep believing in the 6.0 if that is your wish or any diesel for that matter. You can have trouble with anything coming from the big 3. Good Luck


Listen I'm not being sensitive I'm not gonna debate the reliability of the 6.0. You guys have your opinion on them I have mine. I work 80hrs a week running a company. I didn't join plow site to waste my time debating the 6.0 motor. I simply stated bullet proof 6.0 in the first post for one to give as much detail about the rig as possible and to try and elimate the whole 6.0 debate.

I'm more concerned with how is the 5r100 how is the front coil over suspension on 05 since it's the first year they went from leafs. Alternator I know it's week in the ford's. Should I change upper lower ball joints all the wear and tear items. What shocks should I get if any do I need air bags. Those kind of things.

If I wanted to debate 6.0 I would of started a thread

"How is the 6.0 powerstroke for snow plowing"

This thread has gone from my original question to a debate on the 6.0 and debate on sourcing clean fuel. How does any of that relate to my question.

Another thing to keep in mind is we might have a annual snow fall amount of 25-30 inches 10 storms

I don't think the truck is going to working as hard as some of your guys rigs.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JT&SONS said:


> Listen I'm not being sensitive I'm not gonna debate the reliability of the 6.0. You guys have your opinion on them I have mine. I work 80hrs a week running a company. I didn't join plow site to waste my time debating the 6.0 motor. I simply stated bullet proof 6.0 in the first post for one to give as much detail about the rig as possible and to try and elimate the whole 6.0 debate.
> 
> I'm more concerned with how is the 5r100 how is the front coil over suspension on 05 since it's the first year they went from leafs. Alternator I know it's week in the ford's. Should I change upper lower ball joints all the wear and tear items. What shocks should I get if any do I need air bags. Those kind of things.
> 
> ...


 I didn't realize you were so busy, but that's another post. Good luck with your snow events.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

And it's only July...maybe I should just stick to Random Thoughts, What did you do today, and the weather threads.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

FredG said:


> I didn't realize you were so busy, but that's another post. Good luck with your snow events.


Thank you. I honestly had no intentions on offering snow removal. But the direction the customer base is going its either offer it so you can offer a whole package or lose out on potential contracts. In my area people want full service. Lawn care landscape fertilization and snow removal all from same company. If you also do Irrigation you are another step ahead of the competition. 
I'm probably going to end up joining SIMA so I can eliminate having to weed through the troves of threads and BS on here for the same info for free. I know it's on here just don't have the time to weed through it all.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JT&SONS said:


> Thank you. I honestly had no intentions on offering snow removal. But the direction the customer base is going its either offer it so you can offer a whole package or lose out on potential contracts. In my area people want full service. Lawn care landscape fertilization and snow removal all from same company. If you also do Irrigation you are another step ahead of the competition.
> I'm probably going to end up joining SIMA so I can eliminate having to weed through the troves of threads and BS on here for the same info for free. I know it's on here just don't have the time to weed through it all.


 No offence intended, Your questions seem elementary to the business. Yes you want to provide as much service to your clients related to landscaping. Join SIMA if you wish you will get something out of it, what you won't get is many years of hands on.

Forget the BS and graze over it. PS is a world of hands on information things you can't learn in a book. You should always have time to educate yourself on a new service added to your business.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

FredG said:


> No offence intended, Your questions seem elementary to the business. Yes you want to provide as much service to your clients related to landscaping. Join SIMA if you wish you will get something out of it, what you won't get is many years of hands on.
> 
> Forget the BS and graze over it. PS is a world of hands on information things you can't learn in a book. You should always have time to educate yourself on a new service added to your business.


I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm here. And why I don't waste time debating the 6.0 motor. That has absolutely nothing to do snow removal outside of ok you guys say it's not reliable and that's dually noted.

As for snow removal I don't have a clue. Ive always been the one to be on a sled riding rather then be in a plow truck. Now when it comes to operating I have ran everything from skid steers to combines honey wagons you name it.

In a ideal situation I should of sub contracted for another company for a few years. But that's not the case. 
My main concern is Insurance that's a big one I still need to get the proper liability insurance in place I all ready have commercial auto need to add plowing to it. I have already secured my source for my deicing products. Then my plow I'm not sure what I'm going to buy yet.

I felt like joking SIMA I could get some real world times and numbers to know what to expect. But in the end nothing will replace experience or the wealth of knowledge I'm sure is on this forum.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JT&SONS said:


> I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm here. And why I don't waste time debating the 6.0 motor. That has absolutely nothing to do snow removal outside of ok you guys say it's not reliable and that's dually noted.
> 
> As for snow removal I don't have a clue. Ive always been the one to be on a sled riding rather then be in a plow truck. Now when it comes to operating I have ran everything from skid steers to combines honey wagons you name it.
> 
> ...


 That's better, You know you will need a GL policy with completed snow operations minimum of 1 mill, WC is a must don't care if your a sole operator or not, Ballast was explained above, where to do business with the plow was explained above, modifications were explained above, meaning air bags etc. Your all set on operating equipment, You do understand backup. What equipment to do you presently own, for stacking, removal or just maybe common plowing?

How you going to spread salt, where are you going to store salt that is relatively dry. You do know there is no Holidays off and you will be working early morning or all hours of the night, sleeping with one eye open so you can monitor your jobs. There is a lot more but I'm done for now lol.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> I work 80hrs a week running a company.


And none of us do?



JT&SONS said:


> I simply stated bullet proof 6.0 in the first post for one to give as much detail about the rig as possible and to try and elimate the whole 6.0 debate.


So if I tell you that none of my problems would have been solved by "bulletproofing" my 6.0s that wouldn't help you?



JT&SONS said:


> I'm more concerned with how is the 5r100 how is the front coil over suspension on 05 since it's the first year they went from leafs.


Well, since I work 80 hours a week running a company and have already answered these questions, why should I spend time answering them again just because you work 80 hours a week running a company?



JT&SONS said:


> Alternator I know it's week in the ford's.


They are? News to me.



JT&SONS said:


> Should I change upper lower ball joints all the wear and tear items.


Depends



JT&SONS said:


> What shocks should I get if any do I need air bags.


Do you need to replace them? You don't just because you're getting airbags.



JT&SONS said:


> This thread has gone from my original question to a debate on the 6.0 and debate on sourcing clean fuel. How does any of that relate to my question.


You asked what parts to replace. Someone said filters. Clean fuel and oil are very important for 6.0s...an educated, objective owner would know that.



JT&SONS said:


> Another thing to keep in mind is we might have a annual snow fall amount of 25-30 inches 10 storms


Doesn't really matter if you plow one or 50 storms if your truck isn't reliable.



JT&SONS said:


> I honestly had no intentions on offering snow removal. But the direction the customer base is going its either offer it so you can offer a whole package or lose out on potential contracts. In my area people want full service. Lawn care landscape fertilization and snow removal all from same company. If you also do Irrigation you are another step ahead of the competition.


So you know virtually nothing about snow and ice management but rip on those who do just because they didn't answer your questions directly and short and sweet because you're bizzie.



JT&SONS said:


> I'm probably going to end up joining SIMA so I can eliminate having to weed through the troves of threads and BS on here for the same info for free. I know it's on here just don't have the time to weed through it all.


I'm a Charter Member of SIMA. Info is much easier to come by here than at a non-existent SIMA forum. Especially the type you're looking for. And in a much more timely manner. Plenty of guys that give hours and hours helping others that they have never met. Randall sent parts to JMH in KC, I think for free. Could be wrong. Lots of time spent diagnosing and helping others work through problems with plows



JT&SONS said:


> And why I don't waste time debating the 6.0 motor. That has absolutely nothing to do snow removal outside of ok you guys say it's not reliable and that's dually noted.
> 
> As for snow removal I don't have a clue. Ive always been the one to be on a sled riding rather then be in a plow truck.


So now you readily admit you don't have a clue, but you don't want to pay any attention to those who are trying to help you when they say the 6.0 is unreliable, whether it's been bulletproofed or not.

I had 3 6.0s. Every single snowstorm I was scared to death 1-3 of them would not start. Because that's what 6.0s do...they run fine, shut them off and BAM they won't start. Sometimes they quit while you're driving (STC fitting which has nothing to do with bulletproofing, injector O-rings that have nothing to do with bulletproofing, HPOP system with all its sensors, starters, etc, etc, etc). And plowing is nothing like mowing or fertilizing. You can't depend on it, you have a limited time to service your customers before they fire you or you lose your reputation. You have to be ready every single minute during the winter. You have to have reliable equipment. And 6.0s aren't. Bulletproofed or not. Some are better than others.

So since I'm bizzie working 80 hours a week, I don't feel like repeating myself with my experiences with 6.0s or coil spring front ends or 5R100 trannies or weak alternators (still wondering about that one).

Honestly, if you relax, lose the attitude, I'll be more than happy to answer your questions in this thread in detail. And you won't have to join SIMA if you don't want. Although it is a good investment for anyone.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

I wish I had that much time to break down the post and respond like that....But I don’t...I’m Bizzie


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> Honestly I gave up on this thread as soon as it turned into a 6.0 debate. I'm not here to argue prove why I like the 6.0. I was merely asking what would one do to get his f250 ready for a plow. Once it went to a 6.0 debate I signed off. If you have anything constructive to add feel free but I'm not wasting my time debating the 6.0 have a good day


6.0'z like every PSD has their pros and cons, it's how you mitigate the cons is what matters. I know plenty of people that have had nothing but problems with them and plenty of people that have overcome the problems.
If you have confidence in you're truck that's all that matters since everyone has an opinion.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

We have a average snowfall of 21 inches a year in my area. Is it even worth it to offer the service? I stand to make 14k for 2 comerical properties if it doesnt snow much then i would cut that in half. 

My though was i have the 2 banks why not it will pay for the plow & spreader the residentals will be a little extra cash. Im going to market and see what happens but im definatly questioning myself.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

You need to check on what the insurance is going to cost. That comes right off the gross sales. The plow and salter, you can spread the cost out over a few years. It's all just guessing with snow. Try to get some seasonal contracts. Even if you get cash, keep a log of everything so at the end of the season you can break it down and see how you are doing.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Randall Ave said:


> You need to check on what the insurance is going to cost. That comes right off the gross sales. The plow and salter, you can spread the cost out over a few years. It's all just guessing with snow. Try to get some seasonal contracts. Even if you get cash, keep a log of everything so at the end of the season you can break it down and see how you are doing.


^ sound advise here ^ Thumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Looks like you're in Bloomington\Normal, Illernoiz?

Also looks like you already perform snow removal?

http://jtsonslawncare.com/snow-removal-deicing/

Take Randall's advice.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Skin in the game already.....Nice


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Looks like you're in Bloomington\Normal, Illernoiz?
> 
> Also looks like you already perform snow removal?
> 
> ...





Mark Oomkes said:


> Looks like you're in Bloomington\Normal, Illernoiz?
> 
> Also looks like you already perform snow removal?
> 
> ...












Inspector Oomkes on the job...


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Looks like you're in Bloomington\Normal, Illernoiz?
> 
> Also looks like you already perform snow removal?
> 
> ...


I kinda jumped the gun and added the page to my website before I asked the questions in here. You guys kinda scared me a little. So I'm reconsidering. I don't think it will cost me money but will it be more headache then it's worth? I have enough business from landscape and mowing. It's just I miss bids on some properties cause people want full service. I'm at the very least gonna keep shoveling and snow blowing my residential customers for sure.

Yes as far as insurance goes I need to get on the ball. I carry 2mill for my day to day. Thinking 2mill for snow should be enough. Just not sure what the premiums will run or what offering salt will do to the premium. I'm sure it's substantially more if you offer dicing. The grass is going dormant in my area now so things are slowing down some. I'm almost caught up on landscape work at least not behind schedule. Still. Scheduling 3 weeks out. But that usually falls off for a couple months in the dog days of summer. So I should have some spare time soon. But right now im never home in time to call.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

What's your guys thoughts on buying a used plow just to get my feet wet? I found a year old western 8.5 MVP3 contractor grade with truckside for 5k. Thoughts? Is warrenty transferable on plows?

Trying to figure what to expect to spend on initial investment 

Thanks for your time.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Doesn't sound like much of a deal. Have you priced a new one?


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Doesn't sound like much of a deal. Have you priced a new one?


6500+1k for truck side


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JT&SONS said:


> 6500+1k for truck side


That seems way too high...


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

John_DeereGreen said:


> That seems way too high...


For the plow truckside or both?

Truckside i am not 100% certain thats what they said its close give or take 200.00. I budgeted 10k for equipment cost spreader and plow.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JT&SONS said:


> For the plow truckside or both?
> 
> Truckside i am not 100% certain thats what they said its close give or take 200.00. I budgeted 10k for equipment cost spreader and plow.


Both. A new 9'2" DXT installed is 6500. You're buying a smaller plow with less "options" for more money.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JT&SONS said:


> What's your guys thoughts on buying a used plow just to get my feet wet? I found a year old western 8.5 MVP3 contractor grade with truckside for 5k. Thoughts? Is warrenty transferable on plows?
> 
> Trying to figure what to expect to spend on initial investment
> 
> Thanks for your time.


That is high for this time of year...


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> That is high for this time of year...


OK thank you


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Would any of you buy meyer or fisher? Found a meyer 8.5 v2 BN for 4400.00 says list price is 7200.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Run away...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

There's a reason it's cheap.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Actually, if you buy the Meyers, buy another as a backup. And then buy a backup for your backup.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Lol Ok I will take your advice on the meyer. So I guess everyone is in agreement boss or western?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> Lol Ok I will take your advice on the meyer. So I guess everyone is in agreement boss or western?


Fisher makes good plows as well. As does SnowEx.

Although rumour has it that SnowEx was bought by Douglas Dynamics who owns Western and Fisher.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Actually, if you buy the Meyers, buy another as a backup. And then buy a backup for your backup.


He didn't say he was buying a Meyer salter. The used stuff your looking at is all to high, just my thoughts.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Randall Ave said:


> He didn't say he was buying a Meyer salter. The used stuff your looking at is all to high, just my thoughts.


Meh...Meyer is Meyer is Meyer.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Anything used quality snow plow should be down under the $4k range this time of year. 

They will go up to the range you are looking at once the first flurries fly...


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

I received another call for a Bid in my area business are starting to get bids for snow removal.

I'm going to be honest this is where I need to find Info and start learning how to quote.

Can you guys please link me to some go threads to start reading through to understand how to bid.

Here is a picture of the place that called today. What would you guys bid this at. From a business standpoint and #s 80-100hr I'm doing good business is making good money all bills are paid.
The only time I don't make that rate is mowing I'm right around 58.00hr but I own all my equipment no payments on anything as of now.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Well hold that thought just quoted some insurance and if it's 500 a month it's not worth it for me to get into.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Starting out, figure an acre an hour on average for plowing. And 750 pounds an acre for salt. You'll probably be faster and use less once you get the hang of it but that'll get you started.

Not sure on location. That insurance price may be great, and may be terrible...


JT&SONS said:


> but I own all my equipment no payments on anything as of now.


But it still costs the same amount of money to own and operate. The only difference between payments and no payments, is you don't have the overhead of the payment it's self.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Starting out, figure an acre an hour on average for plowing. And 750 pounds an acre for salt. You'll probably be faster and use less once you get the hang of it but that'll get you started.
> 
> Not sure on location. That insurance price may be great, and may be terrible...
> 
> But it still costs the same amount of money to own and operate. The only difference between payments and no payments, is you don't have the overhead of the payment it's self.


Yes your right the way I worded it wasn't the best. I do have replacement and Maintance figured into my hrly rate.

I havent went as far with snow equipment cause I don't own any yet. But I sat down with a friend and we broke it down on replacement cost every 2 years and 15% Maintance. He owns a multi million dollar construction business. So I will admit his way of thinking is way above mine. But I trust the numbers he come up with. Basically he said make 80hr doing good. Make 100hr killing it. The snow removal side I not so sure about.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Everyone's costs are different, and everyone's markets are different. There's no way the market here would sustain 80-100 an hour for lawn/landscape outside of prevailing wage work. $38-45 an hour for labor here is about average. Snow is in the 60-90 an hour range for a truck depending on plow and if it's a sub or contractor owned truck.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Everyone's costs are different, and everyone's markets are different. There's no way the market here would sustain 80-100 an hour for lawn/landscape outside of prevailing wage work. $38-45 an hour for labor here is about average. Snow is in the 60-90 an hour range for a truck depending on plow and if it's a sub or contractor owned truck.


OK that helps some. That's about the same as here 50hr labor 1 guy 30hr cost insurance fuel replacement all that stuff. Mowing I make about 25hr wage pay 13hr 20hr to company and cost.

I do know we are 125-150hr for truck and plow. 40hr per shoveler skid 180hr front loader 200+ but to be honest at 500.00 a month insurance there is no way I want to plow snow. I will take the time off. We only get 3 to 10 storms a year. Just not worth my time.

Is general liability cost about the same to do residential only? It was 1mil 2mil coverage


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> replacement cost every 2 years


If you need to replace equipment (plow or mow) every 2 years, you're doing something wrong.

In a low snow area--depending on competition and cost of living--you should be able to get more than $100\hour for a truck. Otherwise it's not worth getting out of bed.

We average over 3x as much snow as you and used to be able to get $125 without batting an eye. Then a bad economy and egos took over. And stupid business practices, i.e. making it up in volume. We have a lot of competition which keeps the prices down.

But in reality, pricing is based on your costs and what the market will bear. Used to be costs and what the service was worth.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

I figured it on 2 years with the idea of fliping mowers when they went out of warranty. I figure in the end figuring this way is just more money the business is making when equipment last longer.

I kinda figured the prices were higher here cause of lack of snow. So a lot less people plowing and driving the price down. Like the population of my area is 140k and there is only 3 heavy hitters. Big companies. Then we do have a bunch of little guys. But I feel like the lack of snow helps us. People & businesses don't invest in there own equipment to get rid of the snow so there are more people and businesses willing to pay. This is just speculation though no facts

It's the insurance that looks like it could be stopping me. Does 500 a month even seem remotely close to what it should be? There is no way there is money in it at that cost.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

As far as insurance, what state are you in? Here in Jersey, that would be considered average to low.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Randall Ave said:


> As far as insurance, what state are you in? Here in Jersey, that would be considered average to low.


Illinois

If I only do residential is it cheaper uasly?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Might be cheaper, go see a commercial insurance agent. Tell him your plans. You already must have a commercial policy. It should not be that much more. And your plowing equipment should last ten years easy, with some repairs.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

500.00 a month for how much coverage? I'm sure I missed that part. I live in IL, and don't pay that. Are you talking about 500.00 X 12, or 500.00 X 4 or 5 months? And this is just for your GL?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Was thinking the same thing. Here the snow insurance part is paid up front, one payment. At least that's my experience.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Might try separating operations.

Chance may lie in that when you combine exposure, it rockets your rates.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

For 1M coverage I've paid anywhere from 750-1,000 for GL coverage per year. I don't understand this "500.00 per month" statement.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Here is the quote. I'm going to call some places tomorrow if I'm home before 8pm


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

What are they basing that coverage on? Gross? Net? Gross payroll? What activities does it cover?


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

John_DeereGreen said:


> What are they basing that coverage on? Gross? Net? Gross payroll? What activities does it cover?


Gross. They also wanted to know what my largest job was gonna be. So i told them 2 banks 7k a piece total 14k total.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

So they want 35% of your gross revenue to insure you? You need to shop around.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

That's B.S. Here's my agent (Erie Insurance). 608-756-4510 Ask for Tracey. They're in WI, but able to insure in IL. The business is owned by some Asian guy who I can't even understand, but Tracey is the girl I deal with and get coverage through. I promise you, it won't be anywhere near 5K a year.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Oh, and I also have my commercial auto through them. It costs me just under a grand a year for my newest truck. State Farm wanted 3K a year for the same coverage, on the same truck. It pays to shop around.


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## the Suburbanite (Jan 27, 2018)

JT&SONS said:


> View attachment 182222


"Who are you covered by?"
-"Hiscox"

Nope


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

I plan on shopping around. But I will call and check with the Erie insurance. Waiting on my agent to call me back I use Insureon right now so hopefully they don't come at me with some crazy high number.

Thank you guys for chiming in.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> I plan on shopping around. But I will call and check with the Erie insurance. Waiting on my agent to call me back I use Insureon right now so hopefully they don't come at me with some crazy high number.
> 
> Thank you guys for chiming in.


You should PM @1olddogtwo. He's in the Chitago area and pays under $1k a year for I think $2mil coverage.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I had mine threw a broker.

Was with Cincinnati for a while, then Pekin for a bit. It was around $1200 was where I started at. As operations grew, so did premiums of course.

90 minutes from you so we should be similar.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Pekin is 30 mins so yes there is no reason I shouldn't find some cheaper then.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JT&SONS said:


> Pekin is 30 mins so yes there is no reason I shouldn't find some cheaper then.


 Not to get nosy but hows your credit rating, Insurance company's have a rating system similar to a credit rating. If you go to one of them free credit report things online you can see your insurance rating. It will be like a credit rating, you could be a 450 or a 850. This is how the insurance company's determine your rates.

You need to talk with a honest agent that's not giving you a hosing for commission gain. It don't hurt to use your negotiation skills.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Who said to buy a back up truck?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> Who said to buy a back up truck?
> 
> View attachment 182506


That's a familiar sight. Right @Philbilly2 ???


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That's a familiar sight. Right @Philbilly2 ???


Kinda looks natural like that, don't it?

Now did you just buy this truck, or is it the one you first talked about?


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Randall Ave said:


> Kinda looks natural like that, don't it?
> 
> Now did you just buy this truck, or is it the one you first talked about?


It's mine. Went to change the secondary trans filter had small leak and someone before me cross threaded the the cup onto the housing. Which is aluminum so when I took the cup off to change the rubber Oring and filter pulled the threads off as well. She is dead in the water. Thought it was funny how I jinxed myself. But this definitely makes me realize how something so simple and unexpected could put you down for at least 2 days. Tha parts I need should be here tomorrow I just don't have the time to do the work myself.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Randall Ave said:


> Kinda looks natural like that, don't it?


They run best in that position.

Or nose down when they lift from the rear.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> It's mine. Went to change the secondary trans filter had small leak and someone before me cross threaded the the cup onto the housing. Which is aluminum so when I took the cup off to change the rubber Oring and filter pulled the threads off as well. She is dead in the water. Thought it was funny how I jinxed myself. But this definitely makes me realize how something so simple and unexpected could put you down for at least 2 days. Tha parts I need should be here tomorrow I just don't have the time to do the work myself.


Depending on the year, and the line size, the tools are different to remove the lines. If those cooler lines are rotted at all, I would replace all of them now.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)




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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Randall Ave said:


> Depending on the year, and the line size, the tools are different to remove the lines. If those cooler lines are rotted at all, I would replace all of them now.


I ordered the whole kit lines and all the year is 2005. If i ordered the kit through ford it would be in tomorrow morning by 9am if i went through a vender for pieces it was going to be cheaper, But parts guy told me they would only charge me for whta they need and stock the rest. Choose that route. 
Thanks for the suggestion should i just call and let them know to replace the lines as well since they will be right there?


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> View attachment 182507


This is funny but isnt helpping


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> View attachment 182507


File footo


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> I ordered the whole kit lines and all the year is 2005. If i ordered the kit through ford it would be in tomorrow morning by 9am if i went through a vender for pieces it was going to be cheaper, But parts guy told me they would only charge me for whta they need and stock the rest. Choose that route.
> Thanks for the suggestion should i just call and let them know to replace the lines as well since they will be right there?


I thought you were performing the repair. If a qualified shop is doing it, they should no what to do. I don't use after market, get the Ford lines, then paint them.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That's a familiar sight. Right @Philbilly2 ???


Sad reality is every 6.0 owner has seen that once or twice...

Props to the OP fo nutting up though.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Ok so i i am meeting with erie insurance agen tomorrow to go over a few things. I have been contacted by my provider which is Acuity they said i am covered for snow removal under my general liabilty policy as long as my gross profit doesnt exceed 50% of income. Should be fine there. Does anyone have exprience with Acuity? 

Also have narrowed my plow down to 8.2 DXT should i go steal poly or stainless? Price new installed 6200 6450 6550. how does that price sound for complete 2019 plow.

Spreader i decided on a TGS1100 with rg3 hook up for the first year 2k instaled. Hows that price? Is this a good choice?

Also could you buys be so kind as to direct me or post in here the numbers i need to figure out what to bid. I have my buisness numbers need the production rate numbers. Need production numbers for F250 with 8.2 vplow shovel and bobcat. I could also use salt numbers.

what i have come up with so far is 28k sqft a hr per truck for a base 
shoveling i was thinking 1500 sqft per man per hr. I have not founf numbers for salt yet.

Thanks for your time and as always any suggestions or help is always appreciated


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> Ok so i i am meeting with erie insurance agen tomorrow to go over a few things. I have been contacted by my provider which is Acuity they said i am covered for snow removal under my general liabilty policy as long as my gross profit doesnt exceed 50% of income. Should be fine there. Does anyone have exprience with Acuity?
> 
> Also have narrowed my plow down to 8.2 DXT should i go steal poly or stainless? Price new installed 6200 6450 6550. how does that price sound for complete 2019 plow.
> 
> ...


I'm not with Acuity but my carrier has the same cap on snow work. They requested my projected income from snow work which plays into your premium. The more income = increased exposure = higher rates.

The Boss DXT is a great plow, I'd suggest you consider a set of Wings for the 8.2. Besides giving extra width so your rear tires your productivity is increased, they're great from relocating snow to another area when needed and you have the option of going back to a 8.2 if you plow drive thru's. Cost seems to be on point for where I'm at.

Have nothing on the spreader other than if you plan to go bigger after the 1st year why not just toss some more skin the game and get a V box oot of the shoot?

Depending on the lot configuration / obstacles you should be able to clear up to 5-6" on 1 acre in 25-45minutes with a 8.2DXT with wings.

For walks I used linear feet figuring walks are 4' wide, a guy should be able to shovel 2400sq up to 5-6". I also had a minimum for walks too.

Salt usage varies by region and weather conditions, where I'm at we use between 300-500# per acre while elsewhere guys are using 1000# per acre. Some guys use 3-4 times the cost of the salt used as the rate per app,


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