# A review of Lipinski and Brickman



## jerrydean (Dec 23, 2009)

Normally I tell National Management Companies what they can do with it when they call. This year, I was tempted by Brickman and their 48 payment policy.

I gotta say, I had some very negative feelings for Brickman at first (we service several Lowes here), but I have come to love their company. They don't 'come down' on you. They seem to understand the situation and choose to work with you. Now this may be a big pile of steaming BS, but it helps me sleep better, make me interface with the customers better, and everyone makes money. They pay quick and in full. A big thumbs up.

Lipinski - after having some success with Brickman I took on a Kohls with Lipinski and two small gas stations. Next to USM, the worst experience ever. Lipinski takes on the 'hard to please' customer with zero snow tolerance. They won't let you use sand and then complain that the asphalt is slippery. WTF! Steer away from this company by all means! The gas stations pay $100 per plow for 2 - 4 inches. Get this - you have to plow every 2 inches, but only get paid once. They use a graduated scale. You also have to go back and get a signature (plus a reaming from the manager). I literally got chewed out because I didn't have a crew to clean the snow off the curbs around the pumps. After 5 trips, I was to make $200. I told the rep what he can do and decided to eat the money I was into them for after one storm. So far we've had two storms and they've gone through 2 contractors.

Jerry


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## sassygrasssnow (Jan 30, 2010)

Was it hard to get in with the brickman group. What did you do to get in with them


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## jerrydean (Dec 23, 2009)

*brickman*

They called from my Yellow Page advert. I had all the right insurances and I was based dead center of three of them. 10 days later we get 24 inches of snow. 4 out of 6 trucks break down within 2 hours. I stuck with it, communicated well with EVERYONE and 4 days later I had a very good relationship.:yow!:


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## sassygrasssnow (Jan 30, 2010)

Do Brickman Have anywork in michigan that you know about or can you find out.


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## MikeLawnSnowLLC (Dec 6, 2005)

Brickman is in MI i know they are in the Metro Detroit area anything outside of that I'm not sure.


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## snobama (Nov 19, 2008)

Good to hear your good experience, quite refreshing actually, the norm for most is to just gripe...
But instead of blaming the other company, don't you feel any accountability for satisfying the customer and understanding the pay and format before you agree to something? If a company doesn't treat you well, that's one thing, and if a customer is totally unreasonable, that's another... but it sounds like you are bashing them for things that only you could have prevented.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

snobama;982976 said:


> Good to hear your good experience, quite refreshing actually, the norm for most is to just gripe...
> But instead of blaming the other company, don't you feel any accountability for satisfying the customer and understanding the pay and format before you agree to something? If a company doesn't treat you well, that's one thing, and if a customer is totally unreasonable, that's another... but it sounds like you are bashing them for things that only you could have prevented.


Snobama -in looking past the gripe I think his real beef is the fact that they appeared to have conveniently used the term "per plow" when they intended to pay "per storm". It is a big difference when you think your price is billed every time you show up.

OP -Does the graduated pricing language appear in your contract? If it does, then it's a tough lesson if you didn't clarify it before starting. Somehow I can see a bigger company pulling this... especially since they are trying to rope in newbie plowers -not that your a newbie, but most newbies wouldn't think to ask about graduated pricing and per storm vs. per plow pricing if it wasn't front and center on the payment terms.


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## ford550 (Nov 9, 2008)

Good post Jerry. Nice and informative without all the BS sarcasm that most bring in here. Very well done.


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## jerrydean (Dec 23, 2009)

*lipinski*

The lipinski demands were out of this world impossible. The previous contractor has royaly screwed up. The Kohls was mad at Lipinski. We were given severe greif when we showed up 3 days before the storm to introduce ourselves. Lipinski was trying to satisfy the customer, but the customer could not be consoled. So we had to bear the brunt of making it up to them. I could have given them 100 truck hours and removed every flake and done a perfect job, but It would not have been enough to right the oringinal wrong. that is why I chose to cut and run. The lesson I learned was to not get into an antaginistic relationship to begin with. How one does that, I don't know.


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

When will these stores stop using BIG national companies that obviously don't get quality contractors, and start going to local businesses to do plowing??


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Brant'sLawnCare;989262 said:


> When will these stores stop using BIG national companies that obviously don't get quality contractors, and start going to local businesses to do plowing??


They wont stop using them....It saves the Stores money and they like dealing with one company on a national level...This is why you are seeing more and more National Companys coming on scene...i.e.Brickmans,Symboit,USM ,Etc...This is what you are gonna have to deal with..So get used to it...


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

jerrydean;988574 said:


> The lipinski demands were out of this world impossible. The previous contractor has royaly screwed up. The Kohls was mad at Lipinski. We were given severe greif when we showed up 3 days before the storm to introduce ourselves. Lipinski was trying to satisfy the customer, but the customer could not be consoled. So we had to bear the brunt of making it up to them. I could have given them 100 truck hours and removed every flake and done a perfect job, but It would not have been enough to right the oringinal wrong. that is why I chose to cut and run. The lesson I learned was to not get into an antaginistic relationship to begin with. How one does that, I don't know.


Sounds like you made the right choice. I know my buddie in NC has had pretty good dealings with Brickman. He does 12 Lowes in NC



Matson Snow;989512 said:


> They wont stop using them....It saves the Stores money and they like dealing with one company on a national level...This is why you are seeing more and more National Companys coming on scene...i.e.Brickmans,Symboit,USM ,Etc...This is what you are gonna have to deal with..So get used to it...


Yup exactly!


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

Brant'sLawnCare;989262 said:


> When will these stores stop using BIG national companies that obviously don't get quality contractors, and start going to local businesses to do plowing??


It doesn't matter if it's national... it's the fact that three parties are involved when two are best for the most ideal relationship. You might sign an agreement for econmy service with the regional manager of some apartments for example, but if your main contact from there on becomes the on-site manager, they might have rediculous expectations for the price range negotiated with their boss. This often leads to hostility... especially if one party was recently stripped of their decision making power.

Always an added dynamic of politics when more than two parties.


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## 04superduty (Jan 9, 2004)

sassygrasssnow;982646 said:


> Do Brickman Have anywork in michigan that you know about or can you find out.


i have seen brickman around Kalamazoo and one truck on m-89 in Plainwell. that trucks frame was bent so bad that it looked like a smile. not sure what bent the frame but the trailer hitch was bend down pretty far, so possibly to much tongue wieght.


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## LawnmastersMike (Feb 1, 2010)

I did alot of work for Brickman two years ago and it was great. They gave me all the work I wanted and paid in a timely manner. Heck they even paid for 2 hours standby time on a few occasions. I have since gone out and got enough jobs on my own to keep our trucks busy but have heard that things arent going so smooth with Brickman this year because they are trying to cut their cost. Anyone from Ohio have any experiences with that this year? We're thinking of getting another truck to run for them for the remainder of this winter and next year.


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## jerrydean (Dec 23, 2009)

*Latest with Brickman and us*

I decided to part ways with Brickman. We had 24 inches over the weekend. When negotiating the price of a Lowes it was decided $400 for a complete push and $350 for complete Salt.

I did not forsee that, during a blizzard, we would not salt after each push. I ended up pushing the lot (4 acres) 6 times. It cost me $6K to pay everyone to get the job done and we only netted $4K profit. I don't know about you guys, but $4K for 36 straight hours of work just doesn't cut it. Especially when I have to split it with two other partners.

In addition, they sent down three trucks to "observe and assist." Their "professional" people have a way about them that really sets me off. Two of the four reps I met talk to us like we are something they scraped off their shoes. I quickly get tired of this. In addition, we did a good job, got the sites 98% done. After 36 hours, we all retired for 3 hours. The call center could not get in touch with us, so they sent another 7 trucks to clean up. Of course they all report back just what a pathetic job we were doing. (Isn't it funny you don't see one snow contractor ever complementing another)

I don't have hard feelings about Brickman in particular. I think it is okay for those that can live with minimal profit margins. I cannot. I think the problem is the business model all together. Having the onsite managers mad at us because they don't have a choice of vendors, having your director give you direction from 500 miles away, and being at the becon call 24/7 for little money is just not my thing.

I will never work for snow brokers again.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Jerry, im a little confused!

Your numbers dont add up. Dont take this the wrong way, im not trying to be a ass, but i do some larger retail and want to make sure i dont get into this trap.

How can it cost you $6000 to plow a lowes. Do you do multipe locations, it only says 4 acres. The $400 on a 4-5 acre site seems fair to me. People do say you dont make a ton on the big dumps but at least they let you plow and bill that much in a small area of time.


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## smcunningham (Dec 27, 2006)

I'm a sub for brickman....Have been for three years now and have had no problems w/ them


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## jerrydean (Dec 23, 2009)

*Answer to Superior L&L*

At $75/hour per contractor, I required two contractors to assist us. One had a skid steer and one had a plow truck 36 x $75 x 2 = $5400. The rest was salt and misc.

I don't understand why you think $400 for 4 acres of asphalt is okay. I had one contract that pays me $3000 for 2 acres. I plowed that one 3 times.

I shoot for $1000 per hour revenue during a storm. Since I made $4000 in 36 hours on 3 Lowes, that was $111.

I would rather stay home and watch TV than put up with that responsibility for $111/hour


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## snobgone (Feb 2, 2010)

How are you calculating the $1000 per hour? Is that all of your equipment combined? If you get 3k for 2 why would you contract yourself for 400 for 4?


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## smokin4by (Dec 21, 2009)

late on this one...but something seems missing....an acre an hour, per truck, at $75hr then i see cost at $300 for the push. $100 profit with none of your equipment on the job? then if you salt each push gross' $450 and all your out is the salt cost?

your right as in it not paying as much as another lot, but isn't lowes wiht USM, then Brickman, then you?? thats what happens when your third in line to get paid.


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## rfed32 (Nov 4, 2005)

i know the brickman out of my area blows...i have the contract for a town home complex and i am there the day of the storm and go back a forth until the 3rd day of clean ups there....when brickman had the contract they would not show up to plow them out for a few days...we are talking parking pads and doing the sidewalks no main roads....but from my understanding they are no good around here


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## jenton (Nov 2, 2008)

I also do alot snow work for brickman alot. i can say they can be a little condisending with there attitude, and they do think they can **** on you when they want, but give it back and they will calm down trust me i have word wars with them from time to time. i have worked with them now for 5 years and i must say this, out all of them lipinski, usm, symbiot, i feel brickman is the best. i will not do snow work for lipinski any longer only because of the type of sites and the paperwork, hard to please yes but the bs with the sign off sheets and delay of payment has made me scale back with them. brickmans checks are on time everytime i cant nock that, and the paperwork is not a problem they do there own all we do send a bill based off the contract and 47 days later the check is in my mail box no problem.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

jerrydean;993177 said:


> I don't understand why you think $400 for 4 acres of asphalt is okay. I had one contract that pays me $3000 for 2 acres. I plowed that one 3 times.
> 
> I shoot for $1000 per hour revenue during a storm. Since I made $4000 in 36 hours on 3 Lowes, that was $111


why are you wasting your time doing this job in the first place then? IF you can make that much money elsewhere why bother? the "prestige" of the big box store? sounds like a real waste of your resources to me.


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

jerrydean;993177 said:


> I had one contract that pays me $3000 for 2 acres.


Per season? Sounds decent.

Per push? I'll believe that when me schitt turns purple and smells of rainbow sherbert.


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## Snow Princess (Mar 4, 2009)

Jerrydean I read your posts about the two "Big Guys" Lipinski and Brinkman and I swear I luv reading the gripe posts because maybe its the clear head of a woman reading it or the fact that I am removed from the situation, but in both cases you screwed yourself. Did you not read your contracts with both companies?? With Brinkman you said you verbally agreed to pricing and terms and granted we were all thrown off by the giant storms we got but you should factor that in. I have a contract I do where I am paid by the amount of inches at the end not by how many visits I made but the scale goes up in price to compensate me for the fact that you will go more at 10" than obviously at 3". I turned down a job because I felt the price didnt go up enough per inch and that was my choice BEFORE the season. I didnt sign real quick and when the job got tough bailed on the client. This business is about reputation and how you just described yourself bailing and "cut and run" on the jobs I am glad you arent in PA cause I wouldnt want to get involved with that type of business. 

All I hear people on here doing is griping about things that should have been worked out in the beginning. You guys B*tch about the plow prices $100 push, only $65 per salt...hello didnt you know that when you signed your contracts. Who tells a client or compnay your subbing for that you'll work and then wait for your check to see what you get paid??? and for you guys mad you arent getting paid in 10 days..you should work those terms out ahead of time too. I pay per the terms I agreed to with all my drivers in October. and if a weekend falls funny or in the beginning of Feb. when we had back to back bilizzards and we were all busy doing the actual snow removal than paperwork I was a week late but I communicated that with the guys and it was ok. Most of you sound so bitter that its instantly a fight when you think your wronged. Take a breath!

Now I feel like everyones mom. lol now that we had this little talk lets hug like the end of a Brady episode and move on because we are in the home stretch and its time to think mowing! hugs to all my big strong plow guys! wesport payup :waving:


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## Snow Princess (Mar 4, 2009)

jerrydean;992645 said:


> I did not forsee that, during a blizzard, we would not salt after each push.:


Pretty stupid to salt after each push in a 24" blizzard...am I not alone on this? Unless you dont care about using the salt and just want to jack up the price. I dont have access to salt everyday of the week--I dont use mine unless I have to. but thats just me


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

I agree with you 100% on your 2nd to last post Snow Princess, but on your last one.....we salt after every push....if you allow the snow to get trampled down and driven over a bunch of times without the salt acting as a barrier, getting 100% clean asphalt at the end becomes a much bigger chore.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

hoskm01;1008696 said:


> Per season? Sounds decent.
> 
> Per push? I'll believe that when me schitt turns purple and smells of rainbow sherbert.


:laughing:


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## Snow Princess (Mar 4, 2009)

I agree in 6-8" storms that happened over time but in those Feb storms we were getting like 2-3" per hour and the salt just got covered up and did nothing. the sites we stopped salting that had a few layers compared to the others we didnt do as a result of watching the others looked the same at the end. We pre treated all but the ones that got 2-3 after verses the sotes with just the pre treat were the same--it was our diligence when we saw it lightening up that cleaned up our spots. BUt I agree storms like PA saw last Thurs-Fri..we didnt pre treat most but when the sun came up as we were getting the change over to sleet and slush we moved in on the salt and saw concrete by dinner. got like 7-8" and about 3 salts in


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## viper881 (Jan 14, 2009)

Brickman are in west michigan. They use to have johnson controls, but for plowing countryside does it now so im not sure if they are a sub.


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

jerrydean;993177 said:


> At $75/hour per contractor, I required two contractors to assist us. One had a skid steer and one had a plow truck 36 x $75 x 2 = $5400. The rest was salt and misc.
> 
> I don't understand why you think $400 for 4 acres of asphalt is okay. I had one contract that pays me $3000 for 2 acres. I plowed that one 3 times.
> 
> ...


You shoot for $1000 per hour during a storm. How many units are you using?

$4,000 in 36 hours, on 3 Lowes, again, how many units? The $111 is what $36 / hour "profit"? A 50% profit margin would seem good to most here.

You also say you "HAD" a contract that paid $3,000 for 2 acres. That's the size of my yard. I could plow that in about 22 minutes with a pickup. Are you trying to say you got $3,000 per PUSH? Or per season? Cause if you're saying you were getting about $9,000 / hour for plowing.... well..... I'm just trying to figure out the numbers.

AND why you only plowed that account 3 times.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

well thats not suprising.

Look up my post from two years ago now... "good riddens lipinskis" lol

I got flamed up a storm because theyre so bid, not unexpected though.

Some have good and bad reps with all companies, but Lipinskis was by far the worst working for them through two other "reputable" companies. They pay like crap, pay late usually, bad policies, hard to work with verbally, confusion goes all around and then they try to not pay... how convenient.


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## triadpm (Sep 26, 2009)

Matson Snow;989512 said:


> They wont stop using them....It saves the Stores money and they like dealing with one company on a national level...This is why you are seeing more and more National Companys coming on scene...i.e.Brickmans,Symboit,USM ,Etc...This is what you are gonna have to deal with..So get used to it...


I dont know about them saving the store money. USM called my buddy in to Walmart to finish up because their contractor couldn't handle the job. The Manager ask how much my buddy charged USM...$1700.00, Manager was charged $4800 from USM.


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

I heard this from another company so I don't know if it's true and I am hoping it's not. Has anyone heard about Lipinski having financial problems. Like I said I hope not because they currently owe me 14k. Now of course they have been on time so far, but....


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## brickman671 (Nov 11, 2009)

Here is the facts for you guys. Brickman not only utilizes subs from our BFS operating facility but we do it on a local branch level as well. For the most part we do have salt and plow capabilities for all our trucks and we do allow subs to salt our sites. We have a ton of work and i am sure you have all felt the economic pinch from clients. We go out and negotiate the best possible price for our sites both nationally and locally and offer fair and competitive rates to our subs. We do expect professionalism and responsiveness but we also understand the reality of a storm and the problems that can arise since we all have been thrown in the mix at one time or another. You will get paid on time and we expect damages to be repaired in a timely fashion. AI apologize to the guy that felt we treated him like something scrapped off a shoe. We only get hot if our client is up our A** about the current situation. Brickman is a great place to work and good people to work for. Come to NJ and plow for my office!


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

brickman671;1085454 said:


> Here is the facts for you guys. Brickman not only utilizes subs from our BFS operating facility but we do it on a local branch level as well. For the most part we do have salt and plow capabilities for all our trucks and we do allow subs to salt our sites. We have a ton of work and i am sure you have all felt the economic pinch from clients. We go out and negotiate the best possible price for our sites both nationally and locally and offer fair and competitive rates to our subs. We do expect professionalism and responsiveness but we also understand the reality of a storm and the problems that can arise since we all have been thrown in the mix at one time or another. You will get paid on time and we expect damages to be repaired in a timely fashion. AI apologize to the guy that felt we treated him like something scrapped off a shoe. We only get hot if our client is up our A** about the current situation. Brickman is a great place to work and good people to work for. Come to NJ and plow for my office!


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## jenton (Nov 2, 2008)

Again I will say I have worked with them all over the years. Lipinski TERRABLE STAY AWAY... usm, slow payers and they take a part of your revenue they pay out 10% like you are a franchise. BRICKMAN over all i will say they are ok, they do pay on time they do there own paper work, the problam is some of them have major attitudes and think you can t live with out them. I have personally chosen not work for large managemnet companies. you have no real control over the site or the contract.you have no contact with the cliant to find out whats going on, and when the **** hits the fan they all will always blame the sub and make you look bad and not them,but in brickmans defence they always paid me and for the most part on time.


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## lbfmd (Dec 26, 2008)

brickman671,

i will say this your branch and your area may only behave like that when a customer is on your tail, but i can tell you this its not like that at every branch. Like everywhere there are some brickman guys that are professionals and have that waym but then there are those that behave like there crap dont stink like everyone elses. If they were the one that built the mutli million dollar company then i would not have a problem with it, he would deserve to be cocky. the guy running the truck with 5 hispanics, or the guy who is an ops manager is no different then the rest of us, but yet believes its ok to treat someone like crap. 

As for Lipinski i have done work for then for 5 years same as every other company, they have some people that are a holes to work with, some others that are good to work with, but in there case I hold them to there contract just like they hold me to it when it comes to payments and work expected. Thats really the secret to them hold them to it and you may get paid 2 weeks late, but tis still better then waiting 60 to 90 days.


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## second income (Sep 19, 2010)

I worked for Jenton as a sub, they worked for Brickman. We worked over 30 hrs straight during our first december storm. I was paid 2 weeks later. I plowed and salted numerous sites and went out of my way to meet with the different store managers from the lots we were assigned to plow. It is all about customer service. I met with them to make sure they were happy with our work because our name is on the trucks. I was paid a fair hourly rate even though I was the third guy in the food chain.


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## Jerreber (Aug 20, 2010)

sassygrasssnow;982646 said:


> Do Brickman Have anywork in michigan that you know about or can you find out.


I see them in Lansing from time to time, not sure if they have a location here though.


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## Jerreber (Aug 20, 2010)

Brant'sLawnCare;989262 said:


> When will these stores stop using BIG national companies that obviously don't get quality contractors, and start going to local businesses to do plowing??


The company I used to work for did work at a target store for 15 years straight. We did parking lot sweeping and charged $135 to sweep. When National Maintenance took over we lost the plowing because the price was cut in half!. They found a local contractor to sweep the lot for $40! Unfortunatley there is always someone to do it for nothing and when they go out of business there is always someone to replace them! Now when you go to Target, the lot is never cleared on time and slippery most of the times. The store manager is upset but has no control over the situation. We did a home depot for them one year and the manager was always upset because of the constant calls from National Maintenance checking in. Also, they would call us and say that the manager of the store requested service when we had no snow. We would call the store manager to find out no such call was made. They just have telemarketers in some other state checking weather reports and then call you with a story. I'm curious to see if the amount of slip and fall accidents at these chain stores has risen. Maybe the money they save by hiring a national company outweighs the lawsuits??? Not sure!


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

It's debatable whether Brickman is the problem, or those who are willing to work for them on the cheap is the problem. Same applies to the USM's, etc.

Brickman has come to this area with absolute ridiculous pricing. They are taking over sites with numbers 50% less (in some cases even lower) than ours. It's hard to tell whether or not their estimators are just completely blowing it, or this is by some design.

Regardless, I can identify numerous sites where their number doesn't even cover the material costs for the season. Others are only slightly over the material costs....and I know what they are paying for material.

We have accumulated comprehensive historical data on these sites and there is no question about what is happening. Anyone who knows numbers would be shocked by these examples. I suppose being the enormous company in the industry they are more than willing to lose what amounts to be a little bit of money for them here (you know they are making it up somewhere else in their world) in order to penetrate this market. 

After meeting with them, these property managers are laughing at how low Brickman is willing to go to secure work....literally laughing. They realize how ridiculous the numbers have gotten, but cannot pass them up.


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## vmj (Nov 17, 2008)

I'm dealing with brickman now,,since they took over for one of my lots that i have done now for four years... The prices they are offering is unbelivable.. They said that they got the prices from the previos co and have to make a little money to.... I was doing this lot a 2-4" at $125 and their offering $48. for 2-4" their sanding is $50 when mine was $100, and $13 for shoveling when i was getting $70.


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## playboybabe_21 (Apr 20, 2007)

Brickman Is on top of industry for one reason every plan has worked!


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

playboybabe_21;1087998 said:


> Brickman Is on top of industry for one reason every plan has worked!


Totally credible post right here. I believe every word you have to say.


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## vmj (Nov 17, 2008)

whats that to low ball.....


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## vmj (Nov 17, 2008)

oh ya to be a national low baller,,,,,,


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## playboybabe_21 (Apr 20, 2007)

vmj;1087867 said:


> I'm dealing with brickman now,,since they took over for one of my lots that i have done now for four years... The prices they are offering is unbelivable.. They said that they got the prices from the previos co and have to make a little money to.... I was doing this lot a 2-4" at $125 and their offering $48. for 2-4" their sanding is $50 when mine was $100, and $13 for shoveling when i was getting $70.


How are u Dealing with brickman? Thay Want To Offer U The account as a sub at a branch in your area then deal with them! I will Say brickman varies with price but if u know your cost of doing snow and talk to contact w/ in branch u most likely will find it to be very good source work/$. Thay look for partners to work with! You Will Find if u Produce the Work u have less headaches & never get stuck for $$$$$ !


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

playboybabe Brickman rep?


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

TCLA;1088967 said:


> playboybabe Brickman rep?


x2, i think playboybabe, should let me be their agent, and take 2/3 of their check


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## bartolini (Sep 11, 2009)

*Kohls is the problem, not really all Management's fault*

We know Kohl's all to well having plowed 4 of them for two different managment companies. Kohls will not pay to have snow moved. Eventhough your management company agreement clearly provides this as an extra fee for the seasonal flat price regardless of events, Kohls will not pay the management company.You will not get paid then. Management will not push the issue with Kohls because then they will not get the contract back or might not get awarded anymore additional.

We plowed four Kohls last season, and one of those same (tremendous Kohls lot with a Staples, A&P and several other large draws) a few years ago, and could not collect for moving snow at anyone of them, Seriously, we almost sued Kohls for tortious interference with a contract, but settled with our management company instead.

Kohls managers will call in service calls based on customer complaints or will simply respond yes to extra service if a management company rep calls to see if everything is in order. Meanwhile trucks would be on site properly maintaining or already been there to salt in the am, verified by gps tracking, yet store managers would not even bother to look outside or at the ground for salt traces. It's the Peter and the Wolf scenario as we call it here.

You may contact this writer if you get screwed at Kohls going forward, but remember, you were warned.


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## vmj (Nov 17, 2008)

playboybabe_21;1088955 said:


> How are u Dealing with brickman? Thay Want To Offer U The account as a sub at a branch in your area then deal with them! I will Say brickman varies with price but if u know your cost of doing snow and talk to contact w/ in branch u most likely will find it to be very good source work/$. Thay look for partners to work with! You Will Find if u Produce the Work u have less headaches & never get stuck for $$$$$ !


I know what my cost is and thats what i was getting for four years...The branch manager already called and told them that ther were never any issues and he perfer i stay.. I went down on my $es and they told me i was still high and that they weren't even getting that from the land owner which has been paying that for four years... They offered $13 toshovel walks...NOW COME ON ALREADY! And i have to jump over a fence all the time to shovel and it's between two buildings...


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

playboybabe_21;1088955 said:


> How are u Dealing with brickman? Thay Want To Offer U The account as a sub at a branch in your area then deal with them! I will Say brickman varies with price but if u know your cost of doing snow and talk to contact w/ in branch u most likely will find it to be very good source work/$. Thay look for partners to work with! You Will Find if u Produce the Work u have less headaches & never get stuck for $$$$$ !


Are you a Brickman slappy.......How do you talk price with the branch, when the branch have bid the accounts So low that its stupid...


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## playboybabe_21 (Apr 20, 2007)

vmj;1089076 said:


> I know what my cost is and thats what i was getting for four years...The branch manager already called and told them that ther were never any issues and he perfer i stay.. I went down on my $es and they told me i was still high and that they weren't even getting that from the land owner which has been paying that for four years... They offered $13 toshovel walks...NOW COME ON ALREADY! And i have to jump over a fence all the time to shovel and it's between two buildings...


maybe i miss understood,Are U Talking (BFS) brickman facility?


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## playboybabe_21 (Apr 20, 2007)

Matson Snow;1089086 said:


> Are you a Brickman slappy.......How do you talk price with the branch, when the branch have bid the accounts So low that its stupid...


It seems like a big Change of price's!Sounds like maybe he was dealing w/(BFS) Brickman Facility!


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## vmj (Nov 17, 2008)

something was up.....


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## bosman (Oct 20, 2008)

Hey playboybabe21, at least tell us how long you've been working for them, and maybe even the position you hold. Its just killing me.


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## playboybabe_21 (Apr 20, 2007)

bosman;1089309 said:


> Hey playboybabe21, at least tell us how long you've been working for them, and maybe even the position you hold. Its just killing me.


Hey bosman,many years! I have been following threads on here Few years now. I have Found alot of info that i was able to apply to snow bis.I also am seeing a Industry that 10-12years ago was about good quality ,service & money was vary good! I see national mgmt companys now in just about every market for snow & Have no understanding of how industry was build! Not every national/service co is wrong for impact But There Is 15-18 west to east that will not make it!


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

playboybabe_21;1089370 said:


> Hey bosman,many years! I have been following threads on here Few years now. I have Found alot of info that i was able to apply to snow bis.I also am seeing a Industry that 10-12years ago was about good quality ,service & money was vary good! I see national mgmt companys now in just about every market for snow & Have no understanding of how industry was build! Not every national/service co is wrong for impact But There Is 15-18 west to east that will not make it!


Didn't see that one coming.


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## Jerreber (Aug 20, 2010)

bartolini;1089047 said:


> We know Kohl's all to well having plowed 4 of them for two different managment companies. Kohls will not pay to have snow moved. Eventhough your management company agreement clearly provides this as an extra fee for the seasonal flat price regardless of events, Kohls will not pay the management company.You will not get paid then. Management will not push the issue with Kohls because then they will not get the contract back or might not get awarded anymore additional.
> 
> We plowed four Kohls last season, and one of those same (tremendous Kohls lot with a Staples, A&P and several other large draws) a few years ago, and could not collect for moving snow at anyone of them, Seriously, we almost sued Kohls for tortious interference with a contract, but settled with our management company instead.
> 
> ...


same thing with target and home depot in our area on all of the above.....


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## RamirezOrchards (Jan 13, 2010)

note to self - Do not deal with Brickman. Especially when their employees jump to their low balling defense with such credible aliases such as "PlayboyBabe". Even more good publicity for the company...


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## bosman (Oct 20, 2008)

playboybabe_21;1089370 said:


> Hey bosman,many years! I have been following threads on here Few years now. I have Found alot of info that i was able to apply to snow bis.I also am seeing a Industry that 10-12years ago was about good quality ,service & money was vary good! I see national mgmt companys now in just about every market for snow & Have no understanding of how industry was build! Not every national/service co is wrong for impact But There Is 15-18 west to east that will not make it!


Uh, OK. Thanks for the lesson. I hope I'm not one of the 15-18.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

My pay was delayed to Brickman not paying as fast as they claim or whatever. 

I still say that contracts with mom & pop businesses are the best. You develop personal and working relationships. I like the friendly atmosphere to that as opposed to big companies like those being discussed here. 

I plowed driveways in Mass and I'd give anything to have my route back. I did good work and gave good service. No advertising, it was all word of mouth and I had to turn people away so I could keep the best service I could as a one man band.


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## shooterm (Feb 23, 2010)

Still none of these companies make sense. There is no need for a middle man in something as simple as snow removal.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

PDMcgowan;1089974 said:


> Still none of these companies make sense. There is no need for a middle man in something as simple as snow removal.


Well said :salute:


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## Scottscape (Nov 27, 2005)

if you have 100 plus stores and you have to hire a few accounts to deal with all the invoicing and such it becomes a pita for the company. I don't see why they wouldn't go with someone who can handle the whole circus and handing the whole circus takes alot of time and planning. this is the way it is and I don't think it is ever going to change. Its like the saying "the south will rise again"... not happening. all we can do is make the "nationals" give us a better cut of the deal and pay in a timely fashion. I can't see why we all have a problem with them if they can do this. its work in progress. if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

PDMcgowan;1089974 said:


> Still none of these companies make sense. There is no need for a middle man in something as simple as snow removal.


You are Right...But...What CEOs of the Walmarts and Targets Love to hear is that you are gonna save them Money...So, a USM or Brickman comes in and tells these CEOs they are gonna save them a Pile of Cash and on top of it they will make their life alot more simple by ONLY having to deal with one company for all their Snow Maintenance Needs...USM or Brickman Low Balls the S#$T out of these accounts to get them and then gets some Billy Big Rig Plow jockey to plow them for Peanuts...But, the Billy Big Rig Plow Jockey thinks hes a big Shooter cause hes Plowing a Wal-mart...Then the end of the season comes and he adds everything up.......Thats when Billy Big Rig Figures out that he Paid to Plow that Wal-mart lot....I guess he should have Known his costs..:laughing:....


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## lbfmd (Dec 26, 2008)

and dont forget the nationals tell The big boxes, dont worry about slip and falls we will insulate you against it. That maybe a bigger benefit then saving a couple bucks. Look at it from Walmarts view, XYZ Snow broker comes in offers to save them 20 % on snow and on top of that if you ever get sued dont worry about it, we'll take care of it. So they could give 2 craps about the service because hey they are not on the hook for it. 

All i know is we do work for one of these nationasl and when our contract is up in 2011 we are done with all of them. We have decided to concentrate on small/regional companies and HOA's they still want good service and ok paying a fair price. i dont expect them to go under from us not renewing but let them get some new plow guy to take care of it.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

[QUOT*E=lbfmd;1090355]couple band dont forget the nationals tell The big boxes, dont worry about slip and falls we will insulate you against it. That maybe a bigger benefit then saving a ucks*. Look at it from Walmarts view, XYZ Snow broker comes in offers to save them 20 % on snow and on top of that if you ever get sued dont worry about it, we'll take care of it. So they could give 2 craps about the service because hey they are not on the hook for it.

All i know is we do work for one of these nationasl and when our contract is up in 2011 we are done with all of them. We have decided to concentrate on small/regional companies and HOA's they still want good service and ok paying a fair price. i dont expect them to go under from us not renewing but let them get some new plow guy to take care of it.[/QUOTE]

You are correct...Forgot that one...This thread is on its way to be Deleted...One thing that does not fly around here is talking Bad about USM or Brickman or any of the other National Blood Suckers....


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

I love some of the BS that comes out of peoples mouths on here. The store itself can not be insulated from a S&F. At least in most states. Everyone involved from the store to the contractor to the sub will be impacted.


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## lbfmd (Dec 26, 2008)

BS huh lilweeds forgot your the end all be all. Yes the store will get sued for about five minutes then when they pull your contract out ( or USM does)and its says you indeminfy and hold them harmless, its back on you. Check with your lawyer and insurance company before you start calling bs. Some insurance companies are now requiring you to send them your snow contracts. So next time contribute, dont blast people on something you may not be 100 % sure about.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

lbfmd;1090431 said:


> BS huh lilweeds forgot your the end all be all. Yes the store will get sued for about five minutes then when they pull your contract out ( or USM does)and its says you indeminfy and hold them harmless, its back on you. Check with your lawyer and insurance company before you start calling bs. Some insurance companies are now requiring you to send them your snow contracts. So next time contribute, dont blast people on something you may not be 100 % sure about.


Well Said...:salute:



lilweeds;1090377 said:


> I love some of the BS that comes out of peoples mouths on here. The store itself can not be insulated from a S&F. At least in most states. Everyone involved from the store to the contractor to the sub will be impacted.


.....Ball is in your Court....


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

lbfmd;1090431 said:


> BS huh lilweeds forgot your the end all be all. Yes the store will get sued for about five minutes then when they pull your contract out ( or USM does)and its says you indeminfy and hold them harmless, its back on you. Check with your lawyer and insurance company before you start calling bs. Some insurance companies are now requiring you to send them your snow contracts. So next time contribute, dont blast people on something you may not be 100 % sure about.


lbfmd ~ Do you really believe someone one can mitigate one's rights away without their knowledge?


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

lbfmd;1090431 said:


> BS huh lilweeds forgot your the end all be all. Yes the store will get sued for about five minutes then when they pull your contract out ( or USM does)and its says you indeminfy and hold them harmless, its back on you. Check with your lawyer and insurance company before you start calling bs. Some insurance companies are now requiring you to send them your snow contracts. So next time contribute, dont blast people on something you may not be 100 % sure about.


That is not true, in almost every state in the union. I am 100% sure about that. I know in PA we have no fault insurance, which means all parties pay regardless of who is at fault. It really is this simple. The lawyer is going to go after the company with the most money, and the contractor is usually the one with the least. Hold Harmless clauses are not what you think they are.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

TCLA;1091111 said:


> lbfmd ~ Do you really believe someone one can *mitigate *one's rights away without their knowledge?


Had to look that one Up........:salute:....


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

If you guys don't want to plow for thee guys fine, don't, it's more work for the those that do. I will not work for free, or sign a contract that my lawyer or insurance company doesn't think looks good. Most companies it's not an issue with. I do not do work for USM. I made that decision not based on what I read on a forum, but on the simple math on a site they offered. I would however work for them if the numbers where good. Both my lawyer and insurance co have read the contract and see no issues. You state may be different. I have worked for both Lipinski and Brickman and can say both pay well and treat me fair. Also I have had a slip an fall at a Lipinski site. Other then hearing about it from the store manager I never heard another word.


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## jenton (Nov 2, 2008)

lipinski, lipinski, lipinski, I cant believe there are still people who work for them. They pay like S#$T. you have to do all this paperwork, and they still drag out you out 60 to 90 days. how much did that just cost you on your credit line, in interest


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## grassguy123 (Jan 4, 2010)

jenton;1154410 said:


> lipinski, lipinski, lipinski, I cant believe there are still people who work for them. They pay like S#$T. you have to do all this paperwork, and they still drag out you out 60 to 90 days. how much did that just cost you on your credit line, in interest


You are 100% correct. They did the same with me.


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## csi.northcoast (Aug 7, 2010)

Matson ....with your permission i want to change the name of my company to Billy big rig plow jockey.....i love it


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

sbg4024;1279205 said:


> Matson ....with your permission i want to change the name of my company to Billy big rig plow jockey.....i love it


Permission Granted...........:salute:


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

One More thing...........Brickman is the Biggest Lowballer in Metro Detroit....We are not talking about a Little Bit......They have taken the Place of USM as Killing the Market and charging prices that were low 20 years ago......Way to go Brickman..Lets De-value this industry a Little More......What a pack of back door Hanks.....Thumbs Up


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## dayexco (Oct 30, 2003)

when dealing with larger, or so we think entities....the only voice many of us have, is our checkbook/wallet...so we need to take whatever venue necessary to accomplish that goal. you have somebody you deal with that you feel is cheating you, or stifling your thoughts? you need to find out where they get their money from, and contact those all directly and tell them you will no longer patronize their business as long as they conduct business the way they are. and with email being such a rapid way of communicating....you need to forward it on to all of those in your line of business, in hopes they'll also contact ALL of the supporting businesses of the one you're having issues with. it has, and will work.


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