# Commercial Insurance went up again!



## Blizzardbusters (Dec 30, 2012)

Our Commerical Insurance continues to rise every year with no claims at all. What insurance carrier do you have? We currently have auto owners 2 trucks 3 trailers skidloader mini ex salters 2 drivers etc.... nothing crazy just small company.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm in illinois and have hastings


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

And progressive for commercial auto


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Rising commercial auto seems to be a thing everywhere. 
Check with local independent agencies. 
With no claims, you should be in a good position to find competitive rates.


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## Ben/Insurance (Oct 22, 2012)

Get 4 year loss runs from your renewing carrier and shop this around to independent insurance agents in your area. Also, if you have legacy with Auto Owners and you are claim free you should be eligible for some discounts etc. Put your agent to work.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Yea mine doubled this year with 20 years zero lose reports. Shopped around with two much higher two the same price and one agent said pay them it not bad. This may be my last year in business I just can’t afford the insurance anymore! I know 5 company’s that have closed or will January 1 all from insurance to death. One agent advised me not seen anything with insurance increases. I just can’t see plowing anymore with past two years no snow.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

There are a few long time plowing companies around here that have given up Snowplowing ......... there main reason was insane Insurance rates . I often wonder why I am still plowing Snow .


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

fireside said:


> Yea mine doubled this year with 20 years zero lose reports. Shopped around with two much higher two the same price and one agent said pay them it not bad. This may be my last year in business I just can't afford the insurance anymore! I know 5 company's that have closed or will January 1 all from insurance to death. One agent advised me not seen anything with insurance increases. I just can't see plowing anymore with past two years no snow.


And yet, there are plenty of guys willing to under bid you. Either they dont have the proper insurance, or they just see what they can charge per hour and think its easy money. 
I had a guy recently tell me he's considering plowing, because his father in-law has a plow truck he's not using and he can get $80 - $100 / hour subbing. Okay go for it.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I went up across the board. Well got two phone calls after explaining and forwarding email forward to me from underwriting. They agreed we’ll agree or we are not plowing anymore. Still waiting on four contracts to come back I explained to
Him in person his response was I need to make a profit to stsy in business.

It’s so hard look at last year we had 6” in two events all season just can’t make money


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

fireside said:


> I went up across the board. Well got two phone calls after explaining and forwarding email forward to me from underwriting. They agreed we'll agree or we are not plowing anymore. Still waiting on four contracts to come back I explained to
> Him in person his response was I need to make a profit to stsy in business.


My recent policy renewal makes me glad I'm behind on getting a few contacts done. Long term clients who I don't increase often and know they aren't out shopping for snow contractors. I'm hoping they understand the increase. 
As you said, with the lack of snow and increased costs it almost isn't worth it.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

so It isn't just me they are raking over the coals!
$1200 and change increase from last year to this, one claim and we proved them wrong so no pay outs. yes I am a little pissed.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Not sure why you would give up plowing because of an insurance increase. Raise your rates accordingly. You wont be the only guy raising rates because I'm sure everyone else's rates have gone up as well.
Everyone knows a contractor or two who have quit because of that, less contractors means properties only have a limited amount of companies they can call. Its just like us with insurance companies that do snow coverage.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

DeVries said:


> less contractors means properties only have a limited amount of companies they can call. Its just like us with insurance companies that do snow coverage.


Yes.

Especially if their requirements are excessive ($10M per occurrence).


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

We just got a $2400 bump up on our GL for some odd reason, and it literally had snow plowing as the main line that went up. Auto is steady. WC is under audit again.

Larger asphalt co here (next door neighbor works there) is officially out of plowing due to insurance costs. They were doing a dozen schools and churches. Owner mentioned having over $60k in increases and called it quits.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Why give up plowing?? Well when you are seeing insurance cost increase by 5,6,and7k more a year with no losses it’s pretty easy to figure out. Now add in two winters with almost no snow like going out 2 times to plow and maybe 4 to salt really not hard to see why. Property owners are starting to pullback on seasonally contracts or cancellations halfway Thur the winter or refusing to pay because it didn’t snow! Now add in the Covid, government telling people not to pay rents or leases! Company’s want less office space or keep these current spaces but at half leases!
I know 5 company’s thsts have stopped plowing. Real world numbers 6k to 32k, 5k to 23k,4200 to 14k and here you go 168k to 408k yup all true numbers. Those numbers are only increases on snowplowing. In my case no claims just my auto went from 3700 to 12345.12. No plowing it 2700 hmmm yup not hard to see why


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

now look at nationals they grab accounts for ssy 91k get someone to do it for 22k. See how easy it is for them survive. They don’t have trucks that now cost 70k upfitted. Local school my buddy does insurance last 6 years was 6500 because of there requirements. Contract is worth 35k so it works I guess. Well his insurance this year was 28k well he dropped it as of last night they sent it out 4 times zero takers well one bid at 156k. Well some facilities manger is rethinking his crazy demands per the board or looking for a new job. He wants one truck on-site at all times from first flake to final cleanup! It doesn’t matter if school is closed. Salt will be applied every hour keeps going and going. He did equipment inspections too!


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

I said this in a thread on lawnsite some where along the line of making what I do a small business I learned/heard your success is made sometimes by what you walk away from.
last season crazy fuel prices this year insurance increases then some folks look at you like your greedy for charging a price that pays for it all, I remind myself it is the choice I have made and so far seem to be moving enough cash around to pay the bills, if I could just get out deer hunting!


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

See I look at business different snow needs to pay for it self. I will not move money to pay for snow out of other areas


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

fireside said:


> See I look at business different snow needs to pay for it self. I will not move money to pay for snow out of other areas


Eggzactly!

Doing snow used to be a great way to increase cash flow in winter months. Lately, between the lack of snow and increased costs of doing business, I wonder if its worth it. Think about all of the time and effort spent on getting equipment ready, scheduling, etc. Add in all of the sleepless nights and time lost when you could be doing other things. Is it really worth it?


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

So if you drop snow your insurance costs go down. you could spend the winter on cruise ships in south America. Think of the savings when you replace the truck with a 2 wheel drive and no plow sadly insurance costs have nowhere to go but up. The more people quit the business the more rates go up. The insurance companies have fewer companies to spread their risk too.


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

I admire your thought process that snow removal should be self sustaining but it hasn't proved itself in business models There are a few regional providers that survive but the biggest limiting factor is the unpredictable weather we don't know how many times it will snow. So we start to add other services to the mix to make the numbers work


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

US CITIZENS-UNITED STATES CITIZENS. Always paying for your own slavery. LoL? 

If you persons actually comprehended that anything with the legal term "insurance" in it, is nothing more than a pure profit casino at the expense of the slaves misery, well then even God can not help you.

Maybe you all shoud try being an American for once in your lives.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

fireball said:


> So if you drop snow your insurance costs go down. you could spend the winter on cruise ships in south America. Think of the savings when you replace the truck with a 2 wheel drive and no plow sadly insurance costs have nowhere to go but up. The more people quit the business the more rates go up. The insurance companies have fewer companies to spread their risk too.


Then keep raising your rates to make up for the rising insurance costs. Same with the salt, gas, etc increases, why would you not charge more.


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## KingSnowRemoval (Nov 19, 2020)

every year it goes up . welcome to the world of contracting insurance 
im using golden isn company . it was very hard to get a snow policy in new york 
most companies dont want to right new policys for companys with out loss runs . 
year 5 no loss and still increases every year only could find 2 differant companys that would right the policys thats y our prices need to increase . 
try explaining that to Mr . Property managers . good luck


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Snow used to be endless cash flow. New truck cash and machines now I hope to make money


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

fireball said:


> I admire your thought process that snow removal should be self sustaining but it hasn't proved itself in business models There are a few regional providers that survive but the biggest limiting factor is the unpredictable weather we don't know how many times it will snow. So we start to add other services to the mix to make the numbers work


 Well I can sit down and tell you how much the hard costs are for snow. I do complete facility services. So each section of my business has costs clearly associated with it. The trucks are what is a wild card to me they get used all year but the loaders nope all snow.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

fireside said:


> Well I can sit down and tell you how much the hard costs are for snow. I do complete facility services. So each section of my business has costs clearly associated with it. The trucks are what is a wild card to me they get used all year but the loaders nope all snow.


Its difficult to calculate the increased depreciation of trucks used for snow, but it definitely accelerates depreciation. Between the added weight on the front end, reduction of life on the transmission and increased corrosion, it all adds up.


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## FourDiamond (Nov 23, 2011)

KingSnowRemoval said:


> every year it goes up . welcome to the world of contracting insurance
> im using golden isn company . it was very hard to get a snow policy in new york
> most companies dont want to right new policys for companys with out loss runs .
> year 5 no loss and still increases every year only could find 2 differant companys that would right the policys thats y our prices need to increase .
> try explaining that to Mr . Property managers . good luck


Then they wonder why you can't plow their lot for $50.00.


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