# Supply and demand



## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

We got hammered with snow in December and beginning of January. And about a month ago I started getting worried that I would run out of salt, so I started calling around to get more. EVERY contact I have as far as getting salt had their prices so jacked up I said screw it and decided I would roll the dice as far as running out.

Well, it hasn't snowed here in about a month now and there is NONE in the 10 day forecast. Funny how these same suppliers that gave me ridiculous prices a month ago are now calling and e-mailing me trying to unload salt at prices that are dropping lower every day. 

I am glad my gamble paid off and I didnt waste thousands of dollars on salt I wont need this year. I am also glad to have the opportunity to tell them I would buy salt from them, but their price gouging a month ago really made me question their business ethic.


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## grasmancolumbus (Mar 4, 2008)

Good call!


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## CK82 (Sep 17, 2005)

I second that! Good call...its unfortunate that the market has come to that! Last year it was impossible to get a hold of salt, now there are suppliers coming out of the woodwork. Despite many new suppliers, the cost continues to rise. Yes I understand the cost to the suppliers goes up in all aspects, but they definitely are price gouging.


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

Ipushsnow;744679 said:


> We got hammered with snow in December and beginning of January. And about a month ago I started getting worried that I would run out of salt, so I started calling around to get more. EVERY contact I have as far as getting salt had their prices so jacked up I said screw it and decided I would roll the dice as far as running out.
> 
> Well, it hasn't snowed here in about a month now and there is NONE in the 10 day forecast. Funny how these same suppliers that gave me ridiculous prices a month ago are now calling and e-mailing me trying to unload salt at prices that are dropping lower every day.
> 
> I am glad my gamble paid off and I didnt waste thousands of dollars on salt I wont need this year. I am also glad to have the opportunity to tell them I would buy salt from them, but their price gouging a month ago really made me question their business ethic.


That is eggselent!!! :redbounce

There is going to be a lot of these middle men that tried to corner and or hoard the market to create inflated prices and using scare tactics to get the cost up. I expect more than a few will be holding on to mountains of salt over the summer scratching their heads. ussmileyflag


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

So no more snow this season? shall we take the plows off? I'm glad a month ago that we went ahead and filled our bins at a slightly higher price than what we normally pay, that piece of mind is worth a lot.


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## Sno4U (Dec 30, 2003)

Ipushsnow;744679 said:


> We got hammered with snow in December and beginning of January. And about a month ago I started getting worried that I would run out of salt, so I started calling around to get more. EVERY contact I have as far as getting salt had their prices so jacked up I said screw it and decided I would roll the dice as far as running out.
> 
> Well, it hasn't snowed here in about a month now and there is NONE in the 10 day forecast. Funny how these same suppliers that gave me ridiculous prices a month ago are now calling and e-mailing me trying to unload salt at prices that are dropping lower every day.
> 
> I am glad my gamble paid off and I didnt waste thousands of dollars on salt I wont need this year. I am also glad to have the opportunity to tell them I would buy salt from them, but their price gouging a month ago really made me question their business ethic.


Ya, its been nice to have the time to fix all the "stuff" that got broken in those 6-7 weeks of winter that we had!
We're sitting good on salt also, got enough to hold us for at least 4 BIG storms rite now-and that was bought on sale!


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Ipushsnow;744679 said:


> We got hammered with snow in December and beginning of January. And about a month ago I started getting worried that I would run out of salt, so I started calling around to get more. EVERY contact I have as far as getting salt had their prices so jacked up I said screw it and decided I would roll the dice as far as running out.
> 
> Well, it hasn't snowed here in about a month now and there is NONE in the 10 day forecast. Funny how these same suppliers that gave me ridiculous prices a month ago are now calling and e-mailing me trying to unload salt at prices that are dropping lower every day.
> 
> I am glad my gamble paid off and I didnt waste thousands of dollars on salt I wont need this year. I am also glad to have the opportunity to tell them I would buy salt from them, but their price gouging a month ago really made me question their business ethic.


consider yourself lucky. since thanksgiving, the biggest break we've had where we didn't plow or salt has been maybe four days max.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

Lately I've been getting the same calls and faxes.. The price hasn't been cut in half, but it has dropped by quite a bit. As the temps get warmer, we use less salt. At this point in the season I hate to have a huge stock pile.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I would risk having 300 ton left over, rather then running out, cheap insurance in my books and reduces ulcers.


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## SnowMatt13 (Jan 8, 2003)

For what some of the companies did with the price of salt this year.....I hope they choke on their salt piles. And I thought price gouging was only for gas...........


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

That's a tuff game to play. I know I wouldn't sleep too well. I'm glad it worked out for you. I had over 100 ton left last year and that was OK by me.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Is anyone that isnt willing to purchase salt as much as 1.5 years ahaed of time, pay fot it, transport it, store it and guess how much you need, really in a position to ***** about the price when you want to buy it on demand? IDK


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt and the market place*



cretebaby;745457 said:


> Is anyone that isnt willing to purchase salt as much as 1.5 years ahaed of time, pay fot it, transport it, store it and guess how much you need, really in a position to ***** about the price when you want to buy it on demand? IDK


This is specifically why I mentioned establishing a salt buying co-op for bulk and bag and elimnate being gouged due to the process of salt allocation when supplies of salt are non existant.

A signed contract for a supply of salt in bags or bulk gives you huge leverage legally and financially

leon


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

JD Dave;745415 said:


> I would risk having 300 ton left over, rather then running out, cheap insurance in my books and reduces ulcers.


Well, at the rates I was getting quoted that would be $60,000.00 in salt. There is no way I could sit on that much money for a year.

And to be clear, I wasn't out of salt, or even close to out, I was just thinking that if things kept up the way they were going I MIGHT need to get some more.

And to cretebaby, I think your post was unfair. I do buy my salt as early as possible and don't expect to "buy on demand". I titled this thread "Supply and Demand" for a reason. A ton of salt is worth what people are willing to pay for it. Whether its $35 or $235, the consumers are the ones that set the price. And at $200 per ton I refused to buy it, and I guess a lot of other people around here refused to pay it too cuz now the salt suppliers want to sell me the same salt for $140 per ton. Come April it will probably be $85 a ton and I will buy my supply for next year!!


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

i have about enough salt to last 1- 1 1/2 years, because i've been stocking up and just got another bin rented recently. NOW is the time to buy! salt is as cheep as it is going to get. trucking is the biggest part in the cost of salt, and i doubt fuel is going to get much cheeper.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Longae29;745205 said:


> So no more snow this season? shall we take the plows off? I'm glad a month ago that we went ahead and filled our bins at a slightly higher price than what we normally pay, that piece of mind is worth a lot.


You bet it is.



JD Dave;745415 said:


> I would risk having 300 ton left over, rather then running out, cheap insurance in my books and reduces ulcers.


Couldn't agree more.



cretebaby;745457 said:


> Is anyone that isnt willing to purchase salt as much as 1.5 years ahaed of time, pay fot it, transport it, store it and guess how much you need, really in a position to ***** about the price when you want to buy it on demand? IDK


Very well said. These three know what they are doing. :salute:


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Ipushsnow;745827 said:


> Well, at the rates I was getting quoted that would be $60,000.00 in salt. There is no way I could sit on that much money for a year.
> 
> And to be clear, I wasn't out of salt, or even close to out, I was just thinking that if things kept up the way they were going I MIGHT need to get some more.
> 
> And to cretebaby, I think your post was unfair. I do buy my salt as early as possible and don't expect to "buy on demand". I titled this thread "Supply and Demand" for a reason. A ton of salt is worth what people are willing to pay for it. Whether its $35 or $235, the consumers are the ones that set the price. And at $200 per ton I refused to buy it, and I guess a lot of other people around here refused to pay it too cuz now the salt suppliers want to sell me the same salt for $140 per ton. Come April it will probably be $85 a ton and I will buy my supply for next year!!


That wasnt really directed towards you


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

Longae29;745205 said:


> So no more snow this season? shall we take the plows off? I'm glad a month ago that we went ahead and filled our bins at a slightly higher price than what we normally pay, that piece of mind is worth a lot.


What are you thinking now Longae? Record high of 54 yesterday, they are calling for 60 Tuesday, and still no snow in the forecast. 60 freakin degrees in Wisconsin in February? That aint right! Man, the white stuff better start falling!


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

guys guys guys, it's onyl one week into February...idk about you but i'll believe spring is here when the first week of April hits, until then you don't know. all our weather is all screwy, it always has been and it always will be.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

to talk about winter being over or the talk about not buying salt to try and survive is ridiculous and unfair to your customers. you signed a deal with them to provide services and now that your profits might take a hit because you couldn;t plan ahead is your problem, not your customers. live and learn, take notes and don't make the same mistake twice. i ran out last year and paid out my ass. this year i made provisions, got paid a little more upfront and stocked up for the year. my salt bin is 75% full right now and i have no worries, but that's the mentallity you have to take.


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

redman6565;747709 said:


> to talk about winter being over or the talk about not buying salt to try and survive is ridiculous and unfair to your customers. you signed a deal with them to provide services and now that your profits might take a hit because you couldn;t plan ahead is your problem, not your customers. live and learn, take notes and don't make the same mistake twice. i ran out last year and paid out my ass. this year i made provisions, got paid a little more upfront and stocked up for the year. my salt bin is 75% full right now and i have no worries, but that's the mentallity you have to take.


 I have to say that is the most over the top post I have ever read on here. Let me clarify for you. We average 52" of snow annually. By the first week in January we already had 47 inches. I was no where near running out, in fact I have over 50% of my supply still left. What I was thinking was IF it kept snowing the way it was going I would have something to worry about so I should start looking around to see what salt was going for. When I got the ridiculous prices I decided to wait on buying more salt. Not getting salt if I needed it is not something I was or am worried about. I can always get it, its just a matter of at what price. Even last year, the biggest snowfall in history here I still had no problem getting salt. So what I had in mind was if I should buy about $20,000 worth of salt and maybe face having to sit on it for the entire summer, or wait a little bit and see what happens. I waited to see what happened, and it hasn't snowed in 5 or 6 weeks now.

The talk about winter being over was in jest, we were joking because we have 60 degree temps here. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think winter is really over.

So I don't need to be reminded by you that I have a contract with my customers, nor do I need your advice to "live and learn" or what "mentality to have." I am a big boy and have been doing this long enough to know how to run my business and keep my customers happy and their lots serviced.

The other thing to remember is this, business wise the best thing that can happen is for you to end the season with 0 salt left. Excess inventory is something every company should try to avoid. Sitting on tens of thousands of dollars worth of inventory that you wont use until next winter makes absolutely no business sense at all.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

redman6565;747709 said:


> to talk about winter being over or the talk about not buying salt to try and survive is ridiculous and unfair to your customers. you signed a deal with them to provide services and now that your profits might take a hit because you couldn;t plan ahead is your problem, not your customers. live and learn, take notes and don't make the same mistake twice. i ran out last year and paid out my ass. this year i made provisions, got paid a little more upfront and stocked up for the year. my salt bin is 75% full right now and i have no worries, but that's the mentallity you have to take.


You make a good point. Alot of guys think it's the customers problem in the middle of winter when you have run out of salt and the price doubled. I knew a few of the big companies last year were going back to customers mid season and trying to raise the price for salting services. That's a shame.
For me it's not about the cost of sitting on salt until next year, the storage over summer is a bigger issue.


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

For the guys that think its the customer's problem all I can say is they probably wont last long. If you sign a contract to provide a service at a price you have to honor that or face a series of consequences. 

As far as my original post, I don't blame the suppliers for jacking prices up, if you are selling something you should try to get the most amount for something, thats business. What I found amusing was these guys that were acting so freakin arrogant just because they had salt when the snow was flying fast and furious are now begging me to buy it. They probably went out and paid a premium for all this salt thinking they were going to unload it for ridiculous prices and make ridiculous profits and are now getting the invoices for the salt and can't cover them. With all the talk about salt shortages and prices that are so high and all the anxiety about availability, now, in mid Februuary to have salt suppliers asking me to buy from them I find it amusing and thought others on here would too.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Ipushsnow;747774 said:


> I have to say that is the most over the top post I have ever read on here. Let me clarify for you. We average 52" of snow annually. By the first week in January we already had 47 inches. I was no where near running out, in fact I have over 50% of my supply still left. What I was thinking was IF it kept snowing the way it was going I would have something to worry about so I should start looking around to see what salt was going for. When I got the ridiculous prices I decided to wait on buying more salt. Not getting salt if I needed it is not something I was or am worried about. I can always get it, its just a matter of at what price. Even last year, the biggest snowfall in history here I still had no problem getting salt. So what I had in mind was if I should buy about $20,000 worth of salt and maybe face having to sit on it for the entire summer, or wait a little bit and see what happens. I waited to see what happened, and it hasn't snowed in 5 or 6 weeks now.
> 
> The talk about winter being over was in jest, we were joking because we have 60 degree temps here. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think winter is really over.
> 
> ...


haha now we have a real debate and conversation here...i admire your fiestiness and sorry if i came off frank, but it's the truth. maybe not for you, but then again i never quoted you or referred to you in my statement, so don't take it personally. i was making a general statement because there are for lack of better terms "morons" who will wait to buy salt and who do think winter is over and who do believe its the customer's problem if there is a salt shortage.


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

I just bought salt about two weeks ago and have used 1 ton of it, no snow all that time so I need to put some salt down. I paid $75 the first order and $127 the second order so I paid out my but for my second order. I just don't have a bin large enough to stock for the whole season. I will admit that it was tempting to just wait and see how February goes but we still have alot of winter left. It was hard to write that check! :crying: I do not want salt in my bin come spring but I also want to put as much down as possible and needed for my customers and me for the rest of the winter. We are in the biz to apply salt so any opportunity I miss to do so is bad for my customers and me.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Ipushsnow;745827 said:


> Well, at the rates I was getting quoted that would be $60,000.00 in salt. There is no way I could sit on that much money for a year.
> 
> And to be clear, I wasn't out of salt, or even close to out, I was just thinking that if things kept up the way they were going I MIGHT need to get some more.
> 
> And to cretebaby, I think your post was unfair. I do buy my salt as early as possible and don't expect to "buy on demand". I titled this thread "Supply and Demand" for a reason. A ton of salt is worth what people are willing to pay for it. Whether its $35 or $235, the consumers are the ones that set the price. And at $200 per ton I refused to buy it, and I guess a lot of other people around here refused to pay it too cuz now the salt suppliers want to sell me the same salt for $140 per ton. Come April it will probably be $85 a ton and I will buy my supply for next year!!


Sorry if I misread your post but the way you worded it, you were almost out and you needed more. Trying to have no salt left at the end of the season is a dangerous game to play and I won't play that game. I figure if you have less then 15% of your yearly salt useage left you are doing well. BTW how much salt do you spread /year and how much do you keep on hand?


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

i must be an idiot because i only use about 120 ton and i have 120 ton left in the bin and our winter is over.....i guess i had some money laying around and wanted to spend it....


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Jay brown;748575 said:


> i must be an idiot because i only use about 120 ton and i have 120 ton left in the bin and our winter is over.....i guess i had some money laying around and wanted to spend it....


must be...haha


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Jay brown;748575 said:


> i must be an idiot because i only use about 120 ton and i have 120 ton left in the bin and our winter is over.....i guess i had some money laying around and wanted to spend it....


Glad you said it.  LOL The amount of carring salt adds up to nothing because you can use it next year, so I wouldn't call you an idiot. You also buy salt at at a very reasonable price compared to most.


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## ColumbiaLand (Sep 1, 2008)

Yep, We Bought 30 ton last week and its been in the uppers 30's and low 40's here all week, wondering if were going to use all of it by April because I could sure use the storage space come spring for the plows and sanders inside the shed. Guess well just have to wait and see what happens! Dam Winter


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

When salt was $40 per ton carrying a few hundred tons over til next year wasn't too bad. At $140 its bad, and when suppliers are gouging you and quoting $200 per ton its not possible, at least not for me. 

The problem is we deliver a product and have no way of knowing how much we are going to need. You run out and you piss your customers off, run the risk of losing accounts, run the risk of getting sued, AND lose the money you would have made spreading it. If you order way more than you need you have to build larger bins, possible pay more rent for the space, and run the risk of sitting on tens of thousands of dollars worth of inventory over the summer. 

Maybe if we all click our heels we can go back to the days when salt was $40 per ton and you could just call and get more the next day if you need it!!!!


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

inventory is not a bad thing though, you can use that same product next season. every year i try to store an extra 20-30 tons and have it sit there, eventually i'm going to start a full season and not have to purchase any salt.


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

Last season I ended up with 3/4 of my bin full. I just got a load yesterday, so we'll see it probably won't snow the rest of the winter. I screwed up when I built my bin (12'x20'X5" high), it is JUST big enough to fit a load in (35 to average). When I built it there we not shortage concerns. Depending on this season & how bidding goes I plan on building a much larger one for next season with a coverall (currently using tarps, it sucks, but works), to take care of this concern. It was nice starting the season with the inventory. It would be nice to have more area so when shortages are forcast, you can stock up. Seems no matter how hard you try the money disappears durring the summer though (probably boat gas).


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

haha probably or atv maintenance


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt*



Ipushsnow;751947 said:


> When salt was $40 per ton carrying a few hundred tons over til next year wasn't too bad. At $140 its bad, and when suppliers are gouging you and quoting $200 per ton its not possible, at least not for me.
> 
> The problem is we deliver a product and have no way of knowing how much we are going to need. You run out and you piss your customers off, run the risk of losing accounts, run the risk of getting sued, AND lose the money you would have made spreading it. If you order way more than you need you have to build larger bins, possible pay more rent for the space, and run the risk of sitting on tens of thousands of dollars worth of inventory over the summer.
> 
> Maybe if we all click our heels we can go back to the days when salt was $40 per ton and you could just call and get more the next day if you need it!!!!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the more reason for a buying co-op; please look for my posting with the web links for information establishing a buying co-operative.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

food for thought.......... salt in your bin in the off season is the same as money in the bank.. if your out of salt in april your better start buying in august to make sure you take delivery buy fall, so my ? is what is 3 months without salt going to save you.... also another plus is here we don't have to pay property tax on salt....


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

Ipushsnow;751947 said:


> When salt was $40 per ton carrying a few hundred tons over til next year wasn't too bad. At $140 its bad, and when suppliers are gouging you and quoting $200 per ton its not possible, at least not for me.
> 
> The problem is we deliver a product and have no way of knowing how much we are going to need. You run out and you piss your customers off, run the risk of losing accounts, run the risk of getting sued, AND lose the money you would have made spreading it. If you order way more than you need you have to build larger bins, possible pay more rent for the space, and run the risk of sitting on tens of thousands of dollars worth of inventory over the summer.
> 
> Maybe if we all click our heels we can go back to the days when salt was $40 per ton and you could just call and get more the next day if you need it!!!!


guess were lucky here being that it is still in the $40-50 range.i'll get you a broker if you have a hauler (from KS)


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

90 days is a long time to tie up one truck, or many trucks worth of salt. I could use that money to invest in my firts excavatig job in the spring. I would not say that you should try to tie up any money for any longer than you have to, in this case I have to tie the money up, part of doing biz. I try and not buy anything before I have too, it's like paying Aprils bills in Decemeber, you would never do it.


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## johndeereguy (Oct 19, 2006)

I just bought the asme amount I used this year to restock my pile for next season. I paid $95 per ton last fall and $70 now with no payment till May. I don't think that was a bad decision


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

johndeereguy;753983 said:


> I just bought the asme amount I used this year to restock my pile for next season. I paid $95 per ton last fall and $70 now with no payment till May. I don't think that was a bad decision


yep now is the time to stock up while fuel is lower cost....it has saved us about $250/load just for fuel...


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm starting the big dig as soon as the ground thaws. I saw we are sitting atop one of the largest salt deposits in the world. 

Just bought a second shovel and plan on putting the wife to work. 

As soon as we hit paydirt I will let you guys know, salt for everyone $10 per ton picked up!


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Ipushsnow;758959 said:


> I'm starting the big dig as soon as the ground thaws. I saw we are sitting atop one of the largest salt deposits in the world.
> 
> Just bought a second shovel and plan on putting the wife to work.
> 
> As soon as we hit paydirt I will let you guys know, salt for everyone $10 per ton picked up!


Will it be self loading at that price like at Aldi ?


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

oops duplicate


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

T-MAN;759077 said:


> Will it be self loading at that price like at Aldi ?


Yes but you got to bring your own box


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