# What is your definition of "high end" customer.



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

So lets hear it.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Zero tolerance, willing to pay for premium deicing material and wants piles hauled away.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Need to back up my post. I meant residential customers.


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## PTSolutions (Dec 8, 2007)

typically comes with lots of headaches, i.e. curvy drive, turnarounds, funky garage placement, lack of area to pile snow, typically charging $500+ per season, at least around here, going rate for avg. double drive is 250-280.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

ProTouchGrounds;1624004 said:


> typically comes with lots of headaches, i.e. curvy drive, turnarounds, funky garage placement, lack of area to pile snow, typically charging $500+ per season, at least around here, going rate for avg. double drive is 250-280.


That's what I would of wrote. Similar numbers as well.


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## PTSolutions (Dec 8, 2007)

i guess the only difference between a high end customer and a standard customer with all of what I wrote earlier would be how much the house is valued at.

when you say high end you typically think expensive house. But a very modest house could have similar drive conditions and still pay top dollar because of whats required to plow it.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

grandview;1623998 said:


> Need to back up my post. I meant residential customers.


I don't get into that too much. In my area residential properties are gobbled up by the uninsured wannabes.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

So something like this would be?


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## mulcahy mowing (Jan 16, 2006)

Depends. Are they willing to pay high end prices? Just because its a large property does not mean its high end.


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

grandview;1624015 said:


> So something like this would be?


Im pretty sure thats JDdaves summer home.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

My friend who I do site work with in warm weather has the ultimate "high end client" Gets called in 2 hrs before any predicted snow, on the clock while waiting.(loader,and up to 8 trucks)
Plows non-stop during event,uses anywhere fro 40 to 100 tons per event when 10 to 20 would due.
At end of event loads and trucks all snow to an on site location.
The half mile entrance road has one truck running non stop,salting and plowing even if not needed.They once had complaint that snow was accumulating on the access road and that it was not acceptable,turned out it wasn't snow it was salt! 
They will drive around with plows up just to drive over the salt to help work it in.
If a snow flurry comes through they will call in 2 or 3 trucks "just in case'.
I could go on and on about this goose that lays a golden egg!
All of this is required by the company,I joke that if he ever has to bid a normal job he'll be lost!


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

SNOWLORD;1624024 said:


> Im pretty sure thats JDdaves summer home.


That's actually his kids doll house.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I used to sub a truck to a site. You would be put on stand by 24 hour prior to the event than be called in 4 hours before storm started. No plows larger than 10' permited no pushers on loaders and list goes on. I would go thru 2 cutting edges a year. What great money it was to due nothing but drive around the complex making sparks..


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

So I guess the point is, is it the price of the house or want you think the owner is worth.If they both say plow it nothing special would the price be different?


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

grandview;1624054 said:


> So I guess the point is, is it the price of the house or want you think the owner is worth.If they both say plow it nothing special would the price be different?


Because the more expensive houses generally have a bigger driveway, even if only slightly, I generally charge more. I charge $20-30 for a normal drive, the high end homes are generally $35-$45, but they are another 10 ft longer.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

beanz27;1624057 said:


> Because the more expensive houses generally have a bigger driveway, even if only slightly, I generally charge more. I charge $20-30 for a normal drive, the high end homes are generally $35-$45, but they are another 10 ft longer.


So for the above driveway. Would you charge grandma who lives there the same if it was a millionaire ?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

grandview;1624060 said:


> So for the above driveway. Would you charge grandma who lives there the same if it was a millionaire ?


No cheating,your the one who signed up for the"business ethics" course.Do your own homework!


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

leigh;1624070 said:


> No cheating,your the one who signed up for the"business ethics" course.Do your own homework!


Actually just trying to set you guys up.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

grandview;1624060 said:


> So for the above driveway. Would you charge grandma who lives there the same if it was a millionaire ?


I would charge the same, or quote it at least. I may think about asking how much he thinks it's worth first lol. With any luck he'd say more then I was thinking, but I'd still probably charge the same amount. $50 for that driveway, thats what I'd say, maybe I'm far off idk.


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## siteworkplus (Nov 7, 2011)

leigh;1624025 said:


> My friend who I do site work with in warm weather has the ultimate "high end client" Gets called in 2 hrs before any predicted snow, on the clock while waiting.(loader,and up to 8 trucks)
> Plows non-stop during event,uses anywhere fro 40 to 100 tons per event when 10 to 20 would due.
> At end of event loads and trucks all snow to an on site location.
> The half mile entrance road has one truck running non stop,salting and plowing even if not needed.They once had complaint that snow was accumulating on the access road and that it was not acceptable,turned out it wasn't snow it was salt!
> ...


This not as uncommon as some may think

I have a flake to flake zero tolerance site plus relocation and the outfit across the road from me makes me look like I hardly show up


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## road2damascus (Apr 26, 2010)

grandview;1624060 said:


> So for the above driveway. Would you charge grandma who lives there the same if it was a millionaire ?


Yes. Grandma is usually more willing to fill my pockets and give me a cup of coffee then some "bargain shopping" millionaires.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

$500 / season is high end?? :laughing: What trailer park do you guys live in?

High end to me is: a large drive with all walks included, never simple or straight forward, always one of the first ones to be done, whatever price I come up with is fine, just make sure it's done by this time no matter what, damaging anything is unthinkable and will make you look incompetent, they never question the bill, they also own a business that gives you thousands and thousands of dollars worth of work other than snow removal, and you can't say no to doing the snow because you might jepardize losing all the work.

You don't even speculate on if they are millionaires, you just wonder how many millions it is.


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## RSE (Nov 27, 2012)

High end client is the property that must stay looking like "Pottery Barn" at all costs. These folks have little to no means to compromise and when the job is complete to their satisfaction the check comes out with as many zeros on it as you want. They lay out exactly how the service is to be performed and most times they are quite knowledgeable of the given applications. You do everything as if it is drawn out on a napkin with a crayon.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

High end resi's by me have heated sidewalks. No shoveling required. Seriously, I have 2 right now.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

grandview;1623998 said:


> Need to back up my post. I meant residential customers.


to me a residential account is any home with a driveway to plow and or sidewalks to clear.

a commercial account is any building with a parking lot and sometimes sidewalks to clear.

the way I charge neither necessarly has a specific charge for them. normally residentials are done at a set amount per visit and commercials are done per hour.

in the pic you have that driveway looks rather large so I would probably quote my hourly price.

I don't have one set of numbers for residentials and another set for commercials. my hourly rate is the same for both and my per visit rate would be as well.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

WIPensFan;1624145 said:


> $500 / season is high end?? :laughing: What trailer park do you guys live in?
> 
> High end to me is: a large drive with all walks included, never simple or straight forward, always one of the first ones to be done, whatever price I come up with is fine, just make sure it's done by this time no matter what, damaging anything is unthinkable and will make you look incompetent, they never question the bill, they also own a business that gives you thousands and thousands of dollars worth of work other than snow removal, and you can't say no to doing the snow because you might jepardize losing all the work.
> 
> You don't even speculate on if they are millionaires, you just wonder how many millions it is.


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## PTSolutions (Dec 8, 2007)

> $500 / season is high end?? What trailer park do you guys live in?


market driven prices my friend, you should know that by now lol!

GV, to your earlier question, yes we would bid the same if it was a millionaire businessman or sweet old grandma.

Prices should be driven by work requirements not expectation or assumption of potential customer (does play a small part but hey)

I'm curious where you are going with this because you already know the answers to all these questions.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

yardguy28;1624186 said:


> to me a residential account is any home with a driveway to plow and or sidewalks to clear.
> 
> a commercial account is any building with a parking lot and sometimes sidewalks to clear.
> 
> ...


Hourly for a driveway? Here is a side view.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

ProTouchGrounds;1624327 said:


> market driven prices my friend, you should know that by now lol!
> 
> My prices were never market driven, if the price wasn't right, I wasn't doing it.
> 
> ...


Yes, what's your point GV?


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## Glenn Lawn Care (Sep 28, 2009)

My definition of a "high end" customer would someone who pays top dollar for service above and beyond. Larger than average size house. Full service customer.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

grandview;1624338 said:


> Hourly for a driveway? Here is a side view.


Hourly on a driveway is a good way to lose money, unless one has a minimum. Looks like aboot 10 minutes or so.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

grandview;1624338 said:


> Hourly for a driveway? Here is a side view.


seeing the side view shows me it's not as large as I thought. I'd be able to easily come up with a price per visit for that one. but I'd still consider it a residential.



dfd9;1624342 said:


> Hourly on a driveway is a good way to lose money, unless one has a minimum. Looks like aboot 10 minutes or so.


yep I have a minimum with everything hourly.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

WIPensFan;1624339 said:


> Yes, what's your point GV?


Kind of a plow question ,brought this up over on LS. High end is different in other parts of the country. So for some this might be a 30 plow and to some a 100 plow. But do you base that price on what they are worth or what you charge no matter what. So if grandma calls and said plow it and shovel the front porch or would you turn it down because it not a rich person? Or if its a rich person would you charge more just because he is rich and wants the same service/


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

grandview;1624376 said:


> Kind of a plow question ,brought this up over on LS. High end is different in other parts of the country. So for some this might be a 30 plow and to some a 100 plow. But do you base that price on what they are worth or what you charge no matter what. So if grandma calls and said plow it and shovel the front porch or would you turn it down because it not a rich person? Or if its a rich person would you charge more just because he is rich and wants the same service/


Gotcha. I've never done the, they are wealthy so I'll charge them more thing. For me it's always how much time and effort will I have to put into this. Then I base my price on those factors.


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## TJSNOW (Jul 26, 2009)

dfd9;1624185 said:


> High end resi's by me have heated sidewalks. No shoveling required. Seriously, I have 2 right now.


Then what do they need you for......Clean up dog poop....xysport


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

TJSNOW;1624385 said:


> Then what do they need you for......Clean up dog poop....xysport


Ummm, the driveway?

You trolling me?


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## TJSNOW (Jul 26, 2009)

dfd9;1624387 said:


> Ummm, the driveway?
> 
> You trolling me?


Are you Trolling Me is the bigger question......:laughing:

We need to get together and have few beers and talk Fisher Plows........xysport


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I consider someone who pays their bill on time, defers to my expertise and comes back year after year a "High End Customer"!


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

grandview;1624376 said:


> Kind of a plow question ,brought this up over on LS. High end is different in other parts of the country. So for some this might be a 30 plow and to some a 100 plow. But do you base that price on what they are worth or what you charge no matter what. So if grandma calls and said plow it and shovel the front porch or would you turn it down because it not a rich person? Or if its a rich person would you charge more just because he is rich and wants the same service/


oh yeah in my business EVERYONE pays the same for all services. from the guy in the shady neighborhood who just wants it knocked down every week to the heart doctor who lives in a mansion and has full maintenance on his property done.


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## GSS LLC (Jul 7, 2012)

i charge higher for more extravagant properties.

1. they are 80 percent more likely to complain untill you are out there touching up the edges with a bic lighter.
2. if they are willing to pay a premium they are less likely to complain. 
3. much more at stake if you hit a 300 dollar landscaping block imported from india at a 5 mil home than if you hit a couple red bricks at a trailer house.


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## road2damascus (Apr 26, 2010)

GSS LLC;1624448 said:


> i charge higher for more extravagant properties.
> 
> 1. they are 80 percent more likely to complain untill you are out there touching up the edges with a bic lighter.
> 2. if they are willing to pay a premium they are less likely to complain.
> 3. much more at stake if you hit a 300 dollar landscaping block imported from india at a 5 mil home than if you hit a couple red bricks at a trailer house.


Very good points.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

I've never seen anyone who has landscaping that close to a driveway or sidewalk that you could hit it with a plow, shovel or snow blower. 

the only thing you can reck up in my neck of the woods is turf. even on the high dollar homes. we are smart. we don't put expensive things where they can get broken.


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## 2_Djinn (Dec 20, 2004)

Aside from a few long private drives I sub out my residential stuff to a friend of mine who has a snow blower route. Nothing gets damaged and looks better IMO. He has a few guys and they make fast work of these smaller residential accts and has been booked solid for the last 3 years on seasonals. PITA is what I think of when I hear "high end residential snow removal"


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## PTSolutions (Dec 8, 2007)

I agree with WIPens, the only reason a customer would be charged more or be considered high end is that in most circumstances, high end homes typically have factors that make it more difficult to plow. On the other hand you can have a pain in the but drive with a 150K home that would cost equal to the same drive with a 500k+ home on the property.

And what I meant by market driven prices is that each area has prices that it can bear, and companies have to play within those boundaries. This typically is affected by cost of living in those areas so thats why a person can be equally comfortable making less money than a contractor making more money in a more expensive market.

And GV, what do you think you are doing discussing plowing over on LS?? Don't you know that site is only for low balling, 21" mower pushing punks stealing our side business???


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

ProTouchGrounds;1624602 said:


> I agree with WIPens, the only reason a customer would be charged more or be considered high end is that in most circumstances, high end homes typically have factors that make it more difficult to plow. On the other hand you can have a pain in the but drive with a 150K home that would cost equal to the same drive with a 500k+ home on the property.
> 
> And what I meant by market driven prices is that each area has prices that it can bear, and companies have to play within those boundaries. This typically is affected by cost of living in those areas so thats why a person can be equally comfortable making less money than a contractor making more money in a more expensive market.
> 
> *And GV, what do you think you are doing discussing plowing over on LS?? Don't you know that site is only for low balling, 21" mower pushing punks stealing our side business??*?


I was doing the same thing with mowing prices.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

All customers are high end customers.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

So I guess the point was to some guys,high end is the price of the house,to some it's what they charge,others it the service they provide.As to the pix of that house. If you knew that was Warren Buffet's house would you charge more or would he pay the same as your other customers who want nothing more then plowing driveway and shovel stoop.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Something tells me it would be hard to fleece Warren Buffet....


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## bosman (Oct 20, 2008)

I think Warren is smart enough to find a plow guy that pays him.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

grandview;1625164 said:


> So I guess the point was to some guys,high end is the price of the house,to some it's what they charge,others it the service they provide.As to the pix of that house. If you knew that was Warren Buffet's house would you charge more or would he pay the same as your other customers who want nothing more then plowing driveway and shovel stoop.


as I said before EVERYONE pays the same in my business.

warren buffet would pay the same amount as the little old lady down the street.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

yardguy28;1625330 said:


> as I said before EVERYONE pays the same in my business.
> 
> warren buffet would pay the same amount as the little old lady down the street.


Well some guys feel they should get more because that person makes more.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

I know that. and personally I disagree with that line of thinking.


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## RSE (Nov 27, 2012)

grandview;1625411 said:


> Well some guys feel they should get more because that person makes more.


Very interesting GV, you make a good point. There is a McDonalds in my area that has a dollar menu and lots of us po' folks might order from it because we are hungry and have an ashtray full of change.
Go 20 miles closer to the bigger city and the McDonalds out there has no dollar menu. People drive audis and mercedes and buy the meals with credit cards. Does MikkyDs feel the people have more money so they eliminate economical items???
The truth as I feel it is yes, sometimes it is not about the time or the degree of difficulty. This person is happy with my service AND my price so why not ??? Without gouging or bias you still do a good job. Personally, I have compitition in the immediate area that drives past most of my resi's and sees the great work I can do. If they were to even try to lowball my customer, they would be told, " No thanks, I have someone and I am happy with their performance". If the scumbag was to tell them they could do the same job for less money, they would get the door slammed into their face. 
You get what you pay for....no matter how much money you have.


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

bosman;1625324 said:


> I think Warren is smart enough to find a plow guy that pays him.


I lost alot of faith in old Warren when I heard him say "I would like to pay more taxes"


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

SNOWLORD;1625537 said:


> I lost alot of faith in old Warren when I heard him say "I would like to pay more taxes"


Gift Contributions to Reduce Debt Held by the Public

The Bureau of the Public Debt may accept gifts donated to the United States Government to reduce debt held by the public. Acting for the Secretary of the Treasury, Public Debt may accept a gift of:

Money, made only on the condition that it be used to reduce debt held by the public.
An outstanding government obligation, made only on the condition that the obligation be retired and the redemption proceeds used to reduce debt held by the public.
Other intangible personal property made only on the condition that the property is sold and the proceeds from the sale used to reduce the public debt.

Gifts to reduce debt held by the public may be inter vivos gifts or testamentary bequests.


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## PTSolutions (Dec 8, 2007)

While I fully embrace capitalism and the right for people to charge whatever they want for a service, I'd say that in our experience our perception of what someone makes rarely plays into our pricing models.

What does get me mad as hell is when someone who does earn a good income living in a 10K sq. ft house complain about a bill that they knew full well how much the service was going to run them. I'm not talking about them complaining about the service, but the amount they need to pay.


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## DeereGuy (Dec 12, 2003)

I dont do resi's anymore but high end for me used to be. Any account holder who felt high end and was willing to pay accordingly. Proofs in the paycheck. 

After all, most people feel entitled and, most don't want to pay. That's what got me out of the Resi business.


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

I have a "high end" residential.Been getting $90/push with up to 3 pushes per storm.Takes 20 -25 minutes to plow,shovel walk,clean in front of 3 car garage and snow brush off any cars in front of garages.Also cleanup around mailbox.I will stop and grab the mail and newspaper if it is there.First name basis for the last 22 yrs and not raised my prices.Apparently he must be happy since others have tried to cut in but I still have it.


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## SnowClear (Feb 24, 2012)

High end residential for me primarily entails how much customer relationship management is included in the the snow service. My experience is that customers that pay more expect more, especially if the competition is much lower in price despite lesser quality of service, relatively speaking. 

To further expound upon the definition of high-end residential, in my opinion, is driven by the pool of competition, highest LOS/lowest LOS provided by competitor(s), and customer relationship management approach to residential customers.

Price is a relative factor and I've found most high property value homeowners have negotiated the price down because of ease of snow service competitor entry and exit issues. A high view application of microeconomic theory suggests that snow service price in high property value residential areas will remain at or near all other residential pricing until excess supply of service is reduced or all competitors raise prices simultaneously. To Camdens point that uninsured/underinsured, make a buck on the side of their real job, folks are causing some real price/quality issues in this industry.


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## road2damascus (Apr 26, 2010)

At or near other residential prices is right. People here all have landscape services. Of course the landscape companies offer their snow plow service and at a lower price than a dedicated snow service. Thats most of my competition. Fortunately for me they don't do that great a job plowing snow. Some people still want quality. I just have to do it at a medium premium price. I have figured out that my easy not so wealthy 40 dollar driveways are were I will make the most money.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

some of the posts in this thread along with the people who feel the rich should be taxed more are prime examples of why you will never find me getting rich, trying to get rich or even wanting to get rich. and I think others will soon feel the same way. 

the idea that people with more money should pay more for everything is just not right. 

part of the problem to many of us (not suggesting anyone on this forum) are too lazy to work for ourselves and we wanna be taken care of by those who have more. why work hard to make money when you can sit around and have the rich and government do it for you. 

in short my prices are across the board for EVERYONE, from lawyers, doctors and ceos to trash collectors, fast food workers and factory workers.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

high end to me is the customer who doesn't care what it costs. these are the only residentials I want to service. they don't care what it costs because they know that a phone call gets us to drop everything and give them what ever they want. They call at 2am and say jump I say yes sir how high where and when? I don't gauge them but they pay top dollar. 1 called me during rush hour - wanted a bobcat, a shoveler, and a salt truck -- right now. ok I said - rerouted 3 crews and charged him for all the time. cost him $500 to do a residential driveway 1 time, and he was happy.

I don't price based how much money someone has-- that is how the government functions in order to pit to public against each other--- I simple price based on what services I provide- my rates are my rates.


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

yardguy28;1636367 said:


> some of the posts in this thread along with the people who feel the rich should be taxed more are prime examples of why you will never find me getting rich, trying to get rich or even wanting to get rich. and I think others will soon feel the same way.
> 
> the idea that people with more money should pay more for everything is just not right.
> 
> ...


I agree with you but sometimes a "high end" does not want snow piles etc.My customer since he has more vehicles than garage space wants to walk out in his suit and loafers ,get in his car and drive away.He does not want to have to step over snow at his garage door,or brush his car off.This is where a drive is more than a simple $30 push and go.When I get done with his,there is no inconvienence because of the storm on his part.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

milkie62;1636430 said:


> I agree with you but sometimes a "high end" does not want snow piles etc.My customer since he has more vehicles than garage space wants to walk out in his suit and loafers ,get in his car and drive away.He does not want to have to step over snow at his garage door,or brush his car off.This is where a drive is more than a simple $30 push and go.When I get done with his,there is no inconvienence because of the storm on his part.


if your doing more work and charging more thats different.

what i'm saying is if i have a lawyer or doctor who wants me to plow out the driveway, clean off the steps and snow blow the sidewalks it's X amount for a certain size driveway.

now lets say some guy who works at mcdonalds has the same size driveway and wants the same service. his price is the exact same X that the doctor or lawyer is paying.

i don't jack up the price because someone has more money or do extra work because someone thinks there more important.

if you want extra stuff like no piles left anywhere or your car brushed off, that all costs extra money and it's all stuff that is available to everyone from the garbage collector who hires me to the doctor who hires me.

everyone in my business gets treated equal and i mean everyone. i don't offer discounts to anyone for anything and i don't charge more for certain people. everyone is welcome to hire me and everyone pays the same amounts for services i offer. no one gets first priority or special treatment.


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## MSS Mow (Mar 19, 2006)

WIPensFan;1624145 said:


> $500 / season is high end?? :laughing: What trailer park do you guys live in?
> 
> High end to me is: a large drive with all walks included, never simple or straight forward, always one of the first ones to be done, whatever price I come up with is fine, just make sure it's done by this time no matter what, damaging anything is unthinkable and will make you look incompetent, they never question the bill, they also own a business that gives you thousands and thousands of dollars worth of work other than snow removal, and you can't say no to doing the snow because you might jepardize losing all the work.
> 
> You don't even speculate on if they are millionaires, you just wonder how many millions it is.


Exactly how I see a "high end" client. However, they do not need to be millionaires to fit into this category, at least not in my geographic area.



Mr.Markus;1624422 said:


> I consider someone who pays their bill on time, defers to my expertise and comes back year after year a "High End Customer"!


Great example!



milkie62;1636276 said:


> I have a "high end" residential.Been getting $90/push with up to 3 pushes per storm.Takes 20 -25 minutes to plow,shovel walk,clean in front of 3 car garage and snow brush off any cars in front of garages.Also cleanup around mailbox.I will stop and grab the mail and newspaper if it is there.First name basis for the last 22 yrs and not raised my prices.Apparently he must be happy since others have tried to cut in but I still have it.


So you were getting $90/push 22 years ago and you're still only getting $90/push now?? It's no wonder they won't let anyone else cut in on you!!


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