# Auto or 6 speed?



## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

Would/Have you plowed with a manual? Is it a PITA or no? Looking to get a plow truck and want a diesel so thinking older 7.3L PS or 12 valve Cummins. Both those autos arent all that great so wanted to know how hard it is plowing with a manual is.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

I've always plowed with a manual. Once you master running all four of your limbs independantly, its second nature. But definately not for an uncoordinated kinda person!  On really long events the clutch leg gets a little rubbery... but its ok. I'd rather have the duarability of a stick over the convenience of an auto any day.


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## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

Damn I want your truck! I miss my 79 K20 everyday.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

496 BB;996773 said:


> Damn I want your truck! I miss my 79 K20 everyday.


I've been ready to throw a match on it for a month! A string of bad luck and ridiculous coincidences coupled with a non-heated shop and steady salting days have had it sidelined for quite a while now...


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## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

496 BB;996494 said:


> Would/Have you plowed with a manual? Is it a PITA or no? Looking to get a plow truck and want a diesel so thinking older 7.3L PS or 12 valve Cummins. Both those autos arent all that great so wanted to know how hard it is plowing with a manual is.


Ok you have a truck with an alison, and don't like the autos in either of the two trucks listed. So why not get an older duramax with the alison ?


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

I had a manual trans for the last 2 years and I will never never never get a plow truck with a manual trans. Once you get it down pat it can be done, but now that I have an auto again I will never go back.


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## snobgone (Feb 2, 2010)

Auto all the way...how are you gonna drink coffee and talk on the cell phone with a stick? If you had central hydraulics, I would go manual.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

I've never tried it but want to. I'd consider a ZF6 or G56 backed truck where Reverse is right next to 2nd. Mount the plow controller on the shifter so you can run it with your fingers. The only downside is that the ZF6 trucks back up very slow (under 10mph if you don't want to redline it), I' havn't tried a G56 in reverse for more then 8ft to see what it has for reverse speed.

I'd say LBZ dmax with a ZF6 or a Late 5.9 CR Cummins with a G56. 
The only thing I don't like about the NV 4500/5600 is that reverse is 2 miles away from 2nd/3rd. And parts can be hard to find due to New Venture going under.


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## snowfighter75 (Mar 10, 2007)

You'll kick yourself in the ass for getting a manual, go with an auto for plowing.


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## dieseld (Dec 30, 2005)

derekbroerse;996728 said:


> I've always plowed with a manual. Once you master running all four of your limbs independantly, its second nature. But definately not for an uncoordinated kinda person!  On really long events the clutch leg gets a little rubbery... but its ok. I'd rather have the duarability of a stick over the convenience of an auto any day.


I do not post much, but feel I need to throw my opinion in here. I thought it would be no big deal to have a 6-speed, so I bought my first Super Duty with one because the price was right. I look back now and realize it was possibly the dumbest thing I have ever spent money on. I snowplow and pull a trailer for a living, not drive on the highway at 55mph. I am at a loss for words in Derekbroerse's argument against reliability. Todays automatics are so reliable, especially the OP with the Allison, I do not know how anyone could put themselves through such torture of shifting and plowing and talking on the phone and taking a drink of whatever and changing the radio station and on and on. Needless to say I sold the truck and still feel my knee problem is from it. I lived and learned. Anyways how you could consider going from an Allison to a stick is beside me. Just my opinion, though. Best of luck to everyone shifting everyday, all day, glad it is not me! Peace.


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## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

I have no plans getting rid of the Allison. I love it by all means....I just dont want to plow with this truck. Id rather plow with a straight axle front end instead of IFS. Also I dont want to be beating on this truck by plowing. Thats why I want to get an older diesel...just not the 6.5L GM. Ive driven those and they wont get out there own way 

Im just worried about the older diesel autos. I havent owned one but have heard that both the mid 90s Ford and Dodge trans arent all that great. Guess I would have to wait and rebuild it. Basically my goal is to find a truck to pull dual duty....plowing but strong enough to tow my enclosed trailer too. All this without springing more than say $6-8K. I know it will be tough but I got the time to look as this is planned for next season. Im seeing the manual thing is what I thought....PITA. I was just worried the auto would overheat quick going from R to D all the time. Im not a big fan of how long it takes the Allison to shift from those two gears anyways. One clutch has to be off before the other engages from what Im told. Unlike the 4l80s and such.


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## dieseld (Dec 30, 2005)

You might want to have your Allison checked because I have driven one, and it is instant. Just because you plow with your truck does not mean you have to beat on it. Everything can break no matter how careful you are, but there is a reason we have technology, and that is to advance ourselves. Why not take advantage of it instead of going backwards to an older vehicle? Ever since cash for clunkers happened, there is not much left for your price range, at least in my area. It seems to have made those trucks jump up significantly in price. Best of luck to you with whatever you decide. To let your Chevy sit on the sidelines with the 8.1L/Alli combo would be criminal to me.


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## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

496 BB;997663 said:


> I have no plans getting rid of the Allison. I love it by all means....I just dont want to plow with this truck. Id rather plow with a straight axle front end instead of IFS. Also I dont want to be beating on this truck by plowing. Thats why I want to get an older diesel...just not the 6.5L GM. Ive driven those and they wont get out there own way


Why ? almost all of us here with GM trucks plow with IFS, it works fine and lasts longer the SFA front ends. You can beat any truck while plowing its all in the driver, I have been plowing with my 2500HD for 8 years and with the exception of wheel barings the front end is all original

The 6.5 will plow snow with the best of them, you don't need horsepower to plow snow, only for high speed trailer towing


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## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

Well hell I always thought plowing on an IFS would be bad. I stand corrected as you guys do it everyday not me. Cool though. And as for my truck.....Im not plowing with it...period. You would have to understand my luck first 

Yea there isnt much in that price range anymore. Thats true. BUT I dont need it right away and deals are always to be had. Any have an older dodge or Ford and have any probs? Guess maybe this is wrong forum for that though.


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## dieseld (Dec 30, 2005)

496 BB;997776 said:


> Well hell I always thought plowing on an IFS would be bad. I stand corrected as you guys do it everyday not me. Cool though. And as for my truck.....Im not plowing with it...period. You would have to understand my luck first
> 
> Yea there isnt much in that price range anymore. Thats true. BUT I dont need it right away and deals are always to be had. Any have an older dodge or Ford and have any probs? Guess maybe this is wrong forum for that though.


That's funny right there, Fords or Dodges with problems!


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## Sydenstricker Landscaping (Dec 17, 2006)

496 BB;997776 said:


> Well hell I always thought plowing on an IFS would be bad. I stand corrected as you guys do it everyday not me. Cool though. And as for my truck.....Im not plowing with it...period. You would have to understand my luck first
> 
> Yea there isnt much in that price range anymore. Thats true. BUT I dont need it right away and deals are always to be had. Any have an older dodge or Ford and have any probs? Guess maybe this is wrong forum for that though.


Well that truck you have does look very nice in your sig pic. I could understand why you wouldnt want to plow with it, that is your toy!! I gotta ask, what kind of mods are on that thing?? Or is it super secret?? LOL

Look around for a decent Chevy 2500 in the 88-98 range with the 350. The 93 and newer 2500/3500's will have the 4L80E which when cared for properly will last a long time. And the 350 will have more than plenty of power to plow any snow and tow a decent trailer. Plus you could also find one with a 454. And if you needed more gogo juice, performance parts for the sbc are a dime a dozen practically. I know there are a few decent 2500's right now with plows or without plows in the 4-7k range that are in the mid to late 90's. Just depends on if you wanted to roll up this way to find them


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

You can plow with your truck and not beat on it. Why spend 8K on another truck when you have a truck that can plow and pull your trailor. Plus double insurance, double registration. If you take care of your truck you should have no problem working it.


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## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

I appreciate all the feedback. Thanks. Ive had some sbc and after having this BBC theres no going back 

Thats why I want a diesel. And not a 6.5 either. Ive towed with those things and it was everything it could do to maintain 65mph. I tow alot more than that now. I also want a diesel for the gas mileage. Anything has got to be better than the damn 7-9 Im getting now. Another reason I dont want to plow with this truck. Profits would be gone! Lol. Ive driven Cummins and PS and I like both. Would only get a 7.3L PS though. Cummins would be nice to find a 12 or 24V. Easy to mod. Plus both would more than double my current mpg AND tow a trailer as well as now. I would love to get a Dmax but they hold their value and the LB7 and injectors are scary. LLY would be my choice.

As for my mods.... just bolt ons plus EFI Live tuning...TCM and PCM. More aesthetics then anything....HIDs, LED dash, switches, color matched bumpers,mirrors,ect. These things run like raped apes with no TM.


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

If you spend 8K on a truck to plow with you are already staring in the hole. When plowing the diesels do not get much better mileage than a gas truck. Your will not save that much in gas, especially if diesel goes up again.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

dieseld;997612 said:


> I do not post much, but feel I need to throw my opinion in here.
> 
> I am at a loss for words in Derekbroerse's argument against reliability. Todays automatics are so reliable, especially the OP with the Allison, I do not know how anyone could put themselves through such torture of shifting and plowing and talking on the phone and taking a drink of whatever and changing the radio station and on and on.


I should have come back on here sooner. Dieseld, I think he was pretty clear he wanted an older, separate diesel truck to plow with. In fact, mentioning a 12V Cummins means pre-97. In other words, the trucks he is talking about do not HAVE an Allison. The trucks he is talking about have older style four speed auto's, which behind diesels MAY live a happy life, and may not, break at the most inopportune time, and cost a fortune to rebuild, not to mention downtime. I stand behind my statement of a stick being more reliable for heavy duty use such as plowing... an Allison may be the exception but they didn't come around for a few more years after the trucks he is talking about.

As for phone, radio, drink, etc.... I have no problem taking a drink, I do it once the truck is moving where I want it to go. You have absolutely NO BUSINESS yapping on a cell phone while you are plowing--your attention should never be divided like that when operating a dangerous machine... and if you do need to, use a handsfree device/Bluetooth. This just became law here, they are handing out fines for ppl using any handheld device while driving. Should be that way everywhere since so many people can't drive to begin with let alone with a phone held up to their ear. Even Mythbusters proved it... talking on a phone badly takes away people's ability to drive.

And the third thing is something I will never understand--I NEVER listen to a radio when I am plowing--EVER. You should be listening to the sounds your trucks make, and the sound of the blade of the pavement, it changes when something is wrong, parts are failing, etc. Maybe this is why I don't tear things up the way some people do? Or why my boss V-plows are over 15 years old now and still in excellent working condition without being bent all to #$^% like so many people have here? You never see me posting about what a POS plow boss makes because I only rammed that curb at 45mph....

Anyways, off my soapbox.

My biggest dislike of the manual tranny is the slow reverse gear.

496 BB, I understand your want of another truck for plowing. If I was in your shoes, and I have been, I'd set up a dedicated plow truck AND also get spare wiring and framework mounted on your good truck for WHEN you have a breakdown (plenty of used mounts available for sale if you look around). Don't say IF, its when... because all things mechanical WILL break down regardless of how new, old, or even well cared for. Every failure and breakdown I've had all season have been brand new parts that failed, or the workmanship of rebuilt parts I've bought. Point being, at least you can swap the plow and controller over to the other truck in half an hour or less and be back at plowing until the main truck is repaired.

That is, unless you don't have enough or must-do contracts, but that is up to you to determine.

Just my 2 cents...


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## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

You got my thinking down pat bud. Thats exactly what I want. I tow with my truck now and its fine....does it with ease. I however dont want my DD being a plow truck too. Ive been there done that and had to switch to my 2wd S10 for back up when I was runnning sidewalk crews. I understand you guys saying plow with this....I know its full up to the task but Id like to not rebuild or even have to fix this when the older trucks are way less to repair. Hell I had a solenoid go out on my trans and it was a $90 part and $600 labor. Little crap like that adds up and Im not beating the hell outta this truck. I just want a beater I can pull dual duty with without worrying about a scratch there and a dent here. Ive put alot of money into making this truck the way it is and its good for what it does but Im not comfortable about it possibly getting beat up plowing. Im not worried about me....its the other idiots out there sliding into you or slipping on ice and hitting a pole...that kinda crap.


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

You are not going to save any money buying an older truck. It might end up costing you more. I can see you have your mind set on getting a diesel. I don't get the diesel craze. You could sell your truck and take the 8K you are planning on buying an older truck with and buy the duramax that you want. You will be happier if you get what you want. Just my opinion


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## tuna (Nov 2, 2002)

Life is to short to plow with a stick,Fawk that gimmie an auto any day.


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## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

tuna;998186 said:


> Life is to short to plow with a stick,Fawk that gimmie an auto any day.


yup, autos are fun to drive in cars and nothing but a pain in a work truck. Even big trucks are going to automatics. I test drove a duramax stick 5 years ago after 2 miles I was all done with that idea


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## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

mossman381;998141 said:


> You are not going to save any money buying an older truck. It might end up costing you more. I can see you have your mind set on getting a diesel. I don't get the diesel craze. You could sell your truck and take the 8K you are planning on buying an older truck with and buy the duramax that you want. You will be happier if you get what you want. Just my opinion


It appears you may have received a stimulus package because theres nothing wrong with my truck so why get a brand new one? I just want a decent older truck that can handle towing and also plow. I can keep miles off this one now and make money with the other one. I also dont want another $700/month damn payment. Im tired of payments on everything. I get one for $7-9K it can be paid for very shortly vs 5 years. I also tend to hold on to trucks for a very long time before selling.

Can you guys honestly say that with plowing things dont wear out faster than not plowing? Im just wondering cause I would think it does.


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## IHI (Nov 22, 2003)

496 BB;998872 said:


> Can you guys honestly say that with plowing things dont wear out faster than not plowing? Im just wondering cause I would think it does.


Obviously it's going to wear on parts, but lets be honest, just like EVERY TOOL you ever use to generate income be it a snow blower, spreader, shovel, ice scraper, bag of salt, of the multitude of saws, nail guns, saw blades, routers, etc....that we use for construction...the very second you fire it up, you are "wearing the item out". Frequency of use will dicate amount of wear timeline wise....this is just an obvious happening when performing any task. So yes:
Front end parts will wear out sooner hanging a plow off the snout
Brakes will wear quicker from all the constant start/stop/slow down cycles the truck sees on any given plow event
Clutches in a manual will wear quicker since it's being engauges ALOT more frequently throughout a snow event
Driveline parts will wear since your engauged in 4WD mode alot of the time so front U joints/CV joints wear quicker from being under stress.

ALL of these factors get weighed into "operating costs". When i plowed with my F150 yrs ago, I budgeted in a new front end rebuild every 2 yrs, that's about all the longer i could get plowing commercially with small half ton parts. Once I got the V box and started sanding/salting with my F350, I now find myself replacing brake pads/rotors every two years from all the added weight I'm asking the brakes to slow down/stop- plus hauling my 28' enclosed to the track every weekend during the summer.

So when i buy a truck, I buy a truck knowing the truck is NOT just a truck, it's a TOOL first and foremost that just happens to get me from point A to point B as well. I think of my trucks much like a DOT legal Toolcat.

As for the manual vs auto, obviously personal preference, but in the past 15yrs of plowing commercially with only 3 trucks, 2 of which i still run (93 F250 and '00 F350 which have had plows since day one) I have never "lost a tranny". Just like anything, the tool operator dictates the life of the tool. If a guy is a fricken idiot and does'nt have a clue behind the wheel...obviously things will break sooner than later, just like if that same idiot grabbed a saw/nail gun, threw it off ladders onto the ground, left it out in the rain, drug it through the mud because they're not intelligent enough on how to operate it/take care of it so it makes money with zero down time...well, obviously that tool getting beat to death is going to live a short life. The operator/user is 80% of a machines downfall typically when you have issues.


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

496 BB;998872 said:


> It appears you may have received a stimulus package because theres nothing wrong with my truck so why get a brand new one? I just want a decent older truck that can handle towing and also plow. I can keep miles off this one now and make money with the other one. I also dont want another $700/month damn payment. Im tired of payments on everything. I get one for $7-9K it can be paid for very shortly vs 5 years. I also tend to hold on to trucks for a very long time before selling.
> 
> Can you guys honestly say that with plowing things dont wear out faster than not plowing? Im just wondering cause I would think it does.


 The government did not help me buy my truck. I bought my truck way before the government started handing money out. I don't know why you came on here asking for opinions when you really don't want to hear anything, but what you want to hear. Good luck on that old truck you buy.


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## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

mossman381;999149 said:


> The government did not help me buy my truck. I bought my truck way before the government started handing money out. I don't know why you came on here asking for opinions when you really don't want to hear anything, but what you want to hear. Good luck on that old truck you buy.


My question was between an auto or a 6 speed. It wasnt directed at what year of truck I wanted to buy. And thanks for the luck.....Im gonna need it


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## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

OK since we are OT how many of you guys plow with a lifted truck? 6" or so on say an older K20-30? Any probs with those older trucks and mounting or such? Im thinking the diesel thing isnt going to work out with an automatic as Ive heard quite a few say they are junk in those years. I guess if I found a decent 6.5L I would consider it but am thinking about the older K20 or K30. Ive had one before and they are easy as hell to work on and parts are cheap if something breaks so I may lean that way and just use it as plow truck and keep towing with mine now. I just want to plow. Weve had so much snow already this year and they are calling for another 5-8" tomorrow. Im missing out.

Also what are your thoughts about plowing with a dually?


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

My main truck is lifted--thats how it was when I got it. I would never bother, myself, for a plow truck. The mount needs to be modified to keep the correct geometry and it cuts down the visibility of the blade.

As for a dually, you just need plenty of weight. Think in terms of pounds per square inch of tire contact. If your truck weighed 6k lbs and has 4 tires, thats about 1500 pounds per tire (if all things were equal). Put that on 6 tires and see how it drops to only 1000. Not hard to imagine how the rear tires tend to float on top a little more...


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## gamberbull13 (Dec 16, 2009)

my new truck is payin for my newnew truck so it doesnt have to pay for itself . Snowplowin to me is run what ya brung. Why buy a truck if ya cant work it


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## Dobber (Dec 8, 2009)

496BB,

While im sorry i cannot help your dilema because i have only plowed with an auto, if you do decide to get an older stick shift truck to plow with, i might be able to be convinced to get rid of my diesel in my signature. its nothing to look at but it will get the job done and it wont be anywhere near that 6-8k that you were talking about. i know you said that you wanted a powerstroke but there are a few advantages to an IDI in a work truck. if you look it up in the search bar i know there is a thread on here about powerstroke vs IDI. the jist of it was that it was WAYYYYY cheaper to fix an IDI and there are no computers to mess up. also, i has a turbo so its not a dog by any stretch. 

PM me if you are interested at all. sorry i cant help more

~Joe


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