# How to charge for drifting



## PlowCow (Dec 5, 2009)

First drifting snow has hit and I am unsure how to charge. One of my driveways I cleared this morning had a very large drift in the middle of it by this afternoon. I cleared it but did not have to do anything to the rest of the drive. Do you charge for a partial clear, or full price again?


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

tymusicWe charge for a partial clear. Most driveways are done in minutes , so we know how long it would take to clear out 4 inches of snow. and the charge for it. So if it take half the time to clear the drift then its a half charge. Ya never lose customers that way.


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

Half price usually....unless it takes just as long as a full clean of the drive
but with this last snow most drifts were bad so they got charged full price


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

Full price based on snowfall prior to the drifting.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Did you guys make half a truck payment this month? Or did you pay your help half what they usually get for working that event? I'll bet you only used half as much gas to get to and from the job? 

You can't make money giving away your sevices! If you went there to plow the drive, and actually plowed the drive, then charge what you charge. Otherwise stay home.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

wipensfan;950274 said:


> did you guys make half a truck payment this month? Or did you pay your help half what they usually get for working that event? I'll bet you only used half as much gas to get to and from the job?
> 
> You can't make money giving away your sevices! If you went there to plow the drive, and actually plowed the drive, then charge what you charge. Otherwise stay home.


right on!!!!!!!!!


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

*I hear ya*



WIPensFan;950274 said:


> Did you guys make half a truck payment this month? Or did you pay your help half what they usually get for working that event? I'll bet you only used half as much gas to get to and from the job?
> 
> You can't make money giving away your services! If you went there to plow the drive, and actually plowed the drive, then charge what you charge. Otherwise stay home.


Very good answer. I am not saying anyone is doing it right or wrong, but I do believe that the price is the price. Our costs are getting to the job. Plowing the driveway is the least expensive part of the job.


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## trycyber (Sep 13, 2006)

WIPensFan;950274 said:


> Did you guys make half a truck payment this month? Or did you pay your help half what they usually get for working that event? I'll bet you only used half as much gas to get to and from the job?
> 
> You can't make money giving away your sevices! If you went there to plow the drive, and actually plowed the drive, then charge what you charge. Otherwise stay home.


Thats just awesome!


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## unit28 (Jan 1, 2007)

PlowCow;949198 said:


> . One of my driveways I cleared this morning had a very large drift in the middle of it by this afternoon. * I cleared it but did not have to do anything to the rest of the drive. *


making money is a good thing.


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## tinkenboutit (Aug 13, 2005)

augerandblade;949231 said:


> tymusicWe charge for a partial clear. Most driveways are done in minutes , so we know how long it would take to clear out 4 inches of snow. and the charge for it. So if it take half the time to clear the drift then its a half charge. Ya never lose customers that way.


Much better to have twenty customers at half price than to have ten customers at full price.  :laughing:
If I show, they get charged full price based on snowfall at the time I arrive. Then if I have to go back, full price again. It ain't a hobby my friends.


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## mansf123 (Nov 10, 2009)

the second you start charging half price for things, people expect more discounts and start taking advantage of you. NICE GUYS FINISH LAST.... its you against them


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## DugHD (Nov 1, 2005)

Sorry dudes, but I would probably clean the drift for a fraction of the plow total or even free.


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## andcon83 (Dec 10, 2005)

DugHD;951083 said:


> Sorry dudes, but I would probably clean the drift for a fraction of the plow total or even free.


Have to agree...I'm always driving by my customers at sometime or another. If I look in and see a drift, I just go hit it. Keep your customers happy, and they won't get the guy who says he will do it $5 cheaper. Plus they may actually give your name to someone else!!


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

andcon83;951125 said:


> Have to agree...I'm always driving by my customers at sometime or another. If I look in and see a drift, I just go hit it. Keep your customers happy, and they won't get the guy who says he will do it $5 cheaper. Plus they may actually give your name to someone else!!


Me too......


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

driveways, more than liekly are full price. a few i give a deal to, but im pretty cheap on my driveways (not that i do that many) theres a certain MIN cost to acctually drive out to that house, plow it, and drive home, with fuel and labor. so a drive way bearly covers that cost to begin with. drifting can be so speratic that one house needs it done and the next 8 dont.

commercial lots, its normally around half price or billed hourly depending on the conditions. this is assumign i dont have to replow the whole lot. i come in plow the curb lines, push some spots.


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Why would you change your prices? The price is the price, you alter the price one time then you better look out. Next event, "most" of the snow blows off the drivway, leaving only one drift. What do you do, charge half price again or full price? If you charge half price, then that storm you only make half the amount. If you do it one time, then be prepared for controversy on the next from the customer.


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

andcon83;951125 said:


> Plus they may actually give your name to someone else!!


I doubt it. But if they do you will be known as the "free clean-up guy" or the "half price guy" and you better believe that it will be expected.


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

Two days ago, snowfall of inch or less, yesterday wind caused drifting. If I happened to be driving past my resi customers on my way to town and noticed a drift in the drive, I would clear it away for nothing. I was going past there anyways and if I would not have done that they would have just drove through it causing a mess. I spent only 1-2 minute total clearing a drive with a drift in it, and when I told them it was free, I got a tip of close to what half was anyways. So it was a win-win anyways. I plowed 1/5 less time to do one drive, and got paid for half of what a full plow would be. Plus when they tell the neighbors and friends, that spreads good word of mouth about my plowing business. Granted they do not get it free everytime, yet I try to get at least each resi one free plow during the season, if it happens that the drifted driveway was the free one I am money ahead. One customer called yesterday and wanted the huge drift cleared from his drive. I told him half price because he was probably the farthest away. He paid me full price plus I got about 40-50 lb bag of taters for a bonus tip.

Posted by dlcs... "I doubt it. But if they do you will be known as the "free clean-up guy" or the "half price guy" and you better believe that it will be expected"
I bet I will be thought of the plow guy that does a great job and at a fair price. Have you ever gotten paid a tip of taters before? I didn't think so...lol.

Matt


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

MattR;951590 said:


> Two days ago, snowfall of inch or less, yesterday wind caused drifting. If I happened to be driving past my resi customers on my way to town and noticed a drift in the drive, I would clear it away for nothing. I was going past there anyways and if I would not have done that they would have just drove through it causing a mess. I spent only 1-2 minute total clearing a drive with a drift in it, and when I told them it was free, I got a tip of close to what half was anyways. So it was a win-win anyways. I plowed 1/5 less time to do one drive, and got paid for half of what a full plow would be. Plus when they tell the neighbors and friends, that spreads good word of mouth about my plowing business. Granted they do not get it free everytime, yet I try to get at least each resi one free plow during the season, if it happens that the drifted driveway was the free one I am money ahead. One customer called yesterday and wanted the huge drift cleared from his drive. I told him half price because he was probably the farthest away. He paid me full price plus I got about 40-50 lb bag of taters for a bonus tip.
> 
> Posted by dlcs... "I doubt it. But if they do you will be known as the "free clean-up guy" or the "half price guy" and you better believe that it will be expected"
> I bet I will be thought of the plow guy that does a great job and at a fair price. Have you ever gotten paid a tip of taters before? I didn't think so...lol.
> ...


Hey Matt, Try getting your truck or plow fixed by paying the guy in "Taters":laughing: I get what your saying but like others have said, they will expect it from then on.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

MattR;951590 said:


> I try to get at least each resi one free plow during the season


This is a joke right?? I sure hope it is.


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

MattR;951590 said:


> I bet I will be thought of the plow guy that does a great job and at a fair price. Have you ever gotten paid a tip of taters before? I didn't think so...lol.
> 
> Matt


Taters? No I haven't but alot of my customers send me Christmas cards with tips or restaurant gift cards. But guess what, I don't plow for free and they don't expect it either. They know that this is how we make a living in the winter and that no matter what we will be there when needed. My customers don't give away their services and they know business is business. Do your utilitiy companies give you a day free a year? Does your mechanic give you a free oil change a year? Does your accountant or lawyer work for free?


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

dlcs;951719 said:


> Taters? No I haven't but alot of my customers send me Christmas cards with tips or restaurant gift cards. But guess what, I don't plow for free and they don't expect it either. They know that this is how we make a living in the winter and that no matter what we will be there when needed. My customers don't give away their services and they know business is business. Do your utilitiy companies give you a day free a year? Does your mechanic give you a free oil change a year? Does your accountant or lawyer work for free?


Thats right!!!!

I will never understand why people will do anything for free (unless family)

My girlfriend always ask me when i tell her im going to do a drive way if im going to get paid? I tell her people dont go out and buy snowplows and work for nothing. But then again some people do LMAO.:laughing:


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## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

I believe snowplowing is more then just the physical labor you have good people skills also.
Explain to the customer there is a cost involved with the business and charge what you agreed upon.
For some you may give a little and next time they expect more others are very content and pleased.
For my per push customers I tell them return trips are another charge. 
I have gone above and beyond for some and do extras. These are typically the seasonal ones who are very pleasant to have and pay me good money before the season starts.


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## andcon83 (Dec 10, 2005)

dlcs;951406 said:


> I doubt it. But if they do you will be known as the "free clean-up guy" or the "half price guy" and you better believe that it will be expected.


I live in a community of 3500 people. I have gotten many driveways by customers giving out my name. For me, I bet I only have to clean up drifts in one or two diveways a year, and it might take all of two passes. What is 5 min. to keep a well paying customer happy? Obviously, if the whole driveway needed to be plowed, then they would be charged in full. Most of my accounts always give me some sort of tip during the course of a season.

Can't say that I would make it a point to give my customers a whole free plowing though...and I don't do people who flag me down to hit the end of their driveway for free!!!


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

WIPensFan;951662 said:


> Hey Matt, Try getting your truck or plow fixed by paying the guy in "Taters":laughing: I get what your saying but like others have said, they will expect it from then on.


I have gotten my truck fixed by paying for it with the barter system. Mechanic needed sign work done and I needed his services. Might not have been taters, but no cash was ever exchanged. plus like I stated before, the taters were a tip besides the cash he tipped me for a complimentary plowing. Plus I was running low on taters anyways, so that guy saved me some gas on a trip to the store for taters..lol. As far as them expecting it from now on, I make it clear it is one per year when telling them no charge.



Mackman;951688 said:


> This is a joke right?? I sure hope it is.


No joke.

My customers know that this is how I make a living during the winter as well. They also know that there is one other guy one road over from me that will also plow for half of what I charge. They also know that I will be there when needed as well. As far as me giving out a free plow (one per year per customer), just by doing that has turned some "will call" customers into steady trigger amount plow customers. And guess what, before when they would call, it would only be after 6-8" or more of snow, now I get to plow at a 2 inch trigger. So where am I losing by giving out a free plow, which is usually the very light fluffy stuff anyways? My bank account does not appear to be shrinking, it is actually growing because I have found a way to turn the ones that only want plowing when it is way too heavy to shovel into steady plow customers even when the snow is easy enough to shovel.

Maybe one way to get you guys to see my method of what I am doing is this.... Ever go into a tavern and when you are ready to leave the bartender buys you a drink? Then of course you decide to stay for "just one more", and that one more turns into several more that you end up purchasing after the free one was consumed. That wiley bartender has turned that free drink into more profit from you because you have purchased several more and stayed longer. That bartender NEVER buys the first one, it is always offered as you are ready to leave the establishment, and that is done to get you to stay and spend even more money than you already did.

Consumers love anything that is "free", even when they normally have to pay for it. Free things can be easily absorbed by raising the overall costs just a bit, not much, just a little. Lets say you have 20 snow events for a 2" trigger per year. And say you plow each one for a $20 flat rate (as an easy example) before you ever thought of giving out a free plow. Just by raising your plow pricing rate up by a small increment of $2, which would make it $22 a plow. Then you take 1 away from the 20 events that you normally would get paid when plowing, which of course makes it 19. So before you started doing the free plow "bonus", you would plow 20 times at $20 each and that comes out to $400. Now lets figure out the free plow thing... 19 times of paid plowing at $22 each plow, and that comes out to $418. Now last time I checked, $418 is more than $400. Not much more, yet the free plow was easily absorbed into the plow price without the customer getting too wise. And to them, yeah they paid $2 more than normal per plow, but that plow guy gives them one free plow each year. And the bonus is some will still gladly give me tips for doing that free plow, it may be I get taters from one guy and the rest usually give a cash tip, but those taters are tasty.

I look at it this way. Hate me if you want for giving out a free plow once a year. Yet with me changing my pricing structure to compensate for the free plow, I have found a system that puts more money in my pocket, and that is no joke. payup

Matt


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## Gary @ Shamrock (Nov 15, 2009)

We "open" our residential driveways, but do not do anything else until after the storm is over. They get charged by the storm; no extras or add-ons. Most of our during-storm time is spent on our commercial lots that need to be maintained clean. Most of these are monthly lump sum fees, most have add-ons for sanding and ice-melting. The remainder are based upon the depth of the snow per storm. A good mix of contracts seems to work well for us.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

Hey Matt, I get your point. Cheap marketing often gets overlooked by both the small and Big guys. If the large snow contractors (not all) around Milwaukee looked at servicing the customer as something that was important and not just a accounting number, they could thin out on the marketing budget. For those that have seen what appears like a cheaper number for providing service only to be nickle and dimed to death, typically will leave a bad taste in a customers mouth. To give out some basic detail work is minimal on a job compared to the effort it takes going out and finding customers. On most of our commercial contracts, you don't pay us extra to come back and push snow off the edge of your lot because our 1/2 ton (i don't own any) can't push any farther back off the asphalt. We have very little turn over with accounts; and if that means I spend an extra hour pushing back piles in my wheel loader, I'll be happy to keep doing that for what appears to be free. All costs are burried somewhere!


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

MattR;953281 said:


> I have gotten my truck fixed by paying for it with the barter system. Mechanic needed sign work done and I needed his services. Might not have been taters, but no cash was ever exchanged. plus like I stated before, the taters were a tip besides the cash he tipped me for a complimentary plowing. Plus I was running low on taters anyways, so that guy saved me some gas on a trip to the store for taters..lol. As far as them expecting it from now on, I make it clear it is one per year when telling them no charge.
> 
> No joke.
> 
> ...


I raise my prices when my costs go up. I will not raise prices to cover a marketing gimick and expect that my customers are ignorant enough not to catch it. Then the next guy gets asked "why don't you give a free plowing like MattR?", when in reality the next contractor is being fair and upfront and gets treated like he is being greedy. But to each his own I guess. In 13 years I have never given away my services and never eluded the customer that something is free.


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

dlcs;953365 said:


> I raise my prices when my costs go up. I will not raise prices to cover a marketing gimick and expect that my customers are ignorant enough not to catch it. Then the next guy gets asked "why don't you give a free plowing like MattR?", when in reality the next contractor is being fair and upfront and gets treated like he is being greedy. But to each his own I guess. In 13 years I have never given away my services and never eluded the customer that something is free.


Do you figure in any advertising costs into your price when deciding what you charge somebody? This is not much different. I spend less on advertising than I normally would and I get to charge a couple bucks extra to cover the costs of offering the free plow. Marketing is advertising.

Consumers in general are ignorant. Look at buying a new vehicle. They have rebates galore to offer. Yet if you do not mention the rebate and try to haggle them down as far as they can go, and then ask about the rebates, they will tell you straight out that they cannot do that since they already went down in price. What if the dealer offers you free oil changes for 5 years if you buy a new truck? Do you honestly think that the oil change service is not absorbed into the price? They also have the rebates absorbed into the price as well.

Retail stores also claim they have big sales. In reality they usually show you what you save off of FULL (suggested) retail price instead of the normal everyday price. How many guys here have wives that fall for the "But it was ON SALE" gimmick?

As far as "Then the next guy gets asked "why don't you give a free plowing like MattR?", when in reality the next contractor is being fair and upfront and gets treated like he is being greedy." 
You stated in an earlier post that "The price is the price, you alter the price one time then you better look out. Next event, "most" of the snow blows off the drivway, leaving only one drift. What do you do, charge half price again or full price? If you charge half price, then that storm you only make half the amount."
So charging full price for a job that only takes a fraction of the time it would take to do the whole driveway is not being greedy? It also is not fair to your customers charging them full price for less work. I do not wish your plow business to fail so I am hoping that your customers are a bit ignorant to the fact that they get charged full price for a job that takes half the time. But to each his own I guess.

Matt


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

MattR;953455 said:


> It also is not fair to your customers charging them full price for less work. I do not wish your plow business to fail so I am hoping that your customers are a bit ignorant to the fact that they get charged full price for a job that takes half the time. But to each his own I guess.
> 
> Matt


My customers know what I charge per visit, its in the contract, I don't care how much snow is in the driveway. We plow with the storm. Been doing it this way for 13 years, and some of my resdientials have been with me for the whole 13 years. I haven't advertised snow services in 7 years, I am not even listed in the phone book, all my business is word of mouth. I don't need to hind anything.


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## Gary @ Shamrock (Nov 15, 2009)

Looks to me like some of you are flexible and open in your thinking... congratulations. It also looks like some of you are very set in your ways and closed to changes. The dinosaurs were very set in their ways and we know what happened to them.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

Gary @ Shamrock;953743 said:


> The dinosaurs were very set in their ways and we know what happened to them.


Dinosaurs had no choice in what happen. They couldnt stop it. But im not going to take my time to drive to a driveway and do anything for free or even 1/2 price.


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## Snowpusher78 (Dec 20, 2009)

I charge full price to clean a drive the first time during any one snow event. After clearing that drive the wind blows that night I know what drives need to be checked on again. If it is a residential drive i will charge half price to clean up a small drift, if it is a commercial lot i will charge for my time there. I have been plowing for 15 years and never been in the phone book, I started out by buying out a guy that had some accounts to add to my accounts i already had and word of mouth has worked great for me. I do have business cards i have to hand out but that is all the advertising i do. It has worked out being flexiable on drift clean up or touch up cause the customer will remember that when you call them back next year to renew the contract


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## unit28 (Jan 1, 2007)

Never had a client call me because I did half pricing work much less for free,
so I choose to not waste my time. I've always acted on time is money and I have better things to do.

I can remember way back 30 years ago contractors had to advertise their work was guaranteed. Nowadays the fly-by-nighters are killing good work ethics more than ever.
Seems that may be a good reason to scare some into thinking they have to give up their time and money so their jobs won't be taken by another contractor. Another thing is customer loyalty, I've never lost a customer to good work ethics.

I'll just stick to my dinasour ways and do good anyways. It seems to keep my home happy. I Raised the family on working the green industry. 3 years ago we moved to where it snows alot with no knowledge of snow service and for some reason I'm doing good from scratch. 
And the referrals are coming in.

So to answer the question on your drifting isue,
do what works for you. and once you do something for half price and or free. The only customers you will be attracting aren't loyal to your good work ethics anyway. It's just a dollar amount that they are going to be shopping you out for.

good customers expect to pay for good work.


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## andcon83 (Dec 10, 2005)

unit28;953955 said:


> do what works for you.


x2


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## Gary @ Shamrock (Nov 15, 2009)

Sure wish that Macman and unit28 were in my area. It looks like you have no competition in SE PA or loonie land. I'd teach you some math as your customers came to me.
Math lesson... Full price times zero customers equals zero money.
You will change your mind when you get some good competition. You might not change, but your customers will. LOL...


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Gary @ Shamrock;953979 said:


> Sure wish that Macman and unit28 were in my area. It looks like you have no competition in SE PA or loonie land. I'd teach you some math as your customers came to me.
> Math lesson... Full price times zero customers equals zero money.
> You will change your mind when you get some good competition. You might not change, but your customers will. LOL...


Whoever said they would have zero customers for charging for their services? They do a good job if they come back and take care of drifting or check to make sure the lot or drive is clear. Just so happens they choose to charge for it, it's called doing business. They will not lose customers with jobs well done.


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## hondarider94 (Jan 10, 2010)

but is taking five minutes of someone(s) time to plow a driveway because it has a small drift that big of a deal?


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

hondarider94;954049 said:


> but is taking five minutes of someone(s) time to plow a driveway because it has a small drift that big of a deal?


It's not about taking 5 mins. It's about having a plow and truck and snowblowers and shovels and insurance and a shop/home/apmt and gas and taxes and helpers/employees - yourself included - and the fact that all these things wear out over time - yourself included - and must be replaced. payup When doing work for half price or free, your not making money you will need at some point in time. Nothing wrong with doing a real good customer or friend a favor but I assumed we were talking about covering all customers for half price once in a while?


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

hondarider94;954049 said:


> but is taking five minutes of someone(s) time to plow a driveway because it has a small drift that big of a deal?


Its 5min once you get there. But what about the time it takes to get there and the time it takes to get back to your house/shop?? You have to count that. Plus all the other reason that dirty pensfan says. (jk about the dirty part. BTW the flyers will eat the pens up and spit them out)


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mackman;954136 said:


> Its 5min once you get there. But what about the time it takes to get there and the time it takes to get back to your house/shop?? You have to count that. Plus all the other reason that dirty pensfan says. (jk about the dirty part. BTW the flyers will eat the pens up and spit them out)


This might not be a good time for this...but, I'm also a lifelong Cowboys fan!:laughing::laughing:


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## unit28 (Jan 1, 2007)

I live in a friendly State. 

{This happened Christmas Day at 8am.}
Seems during the holidays when everyone is off work and it snows the neighbors come out and help each other. 
Had one neighbor do one of my drives. I pulled up and saw it, I sat there a few seconds, and a few houses down a guy was blowing his driveway. I rolled up and asked him if he did it. He said yes, I told him I was contracted to do it so he wouldn't do it again.
This was a new customer of mine and he said oops sorry, I told him don't worry about it. 

I shook his hand told him Merry Christmas. I still charged for it.
I wrote on the bill it was done by the neighbor, and didn't have any problems
getting free money.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

WIPensFan;954151 said:


> This might not be a good time for this...but, I'm also a lifelong Cowboys fan!:laughing::laughing:


I'm not an eagles fan at all. I was happy to see Dallas eat them up. LOL I dont follow hockey too much. I was hoping that would get you all rowd up.


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

Gary @ Shamrock;953743 said:


> It also looks like some of you are very set in your ways and closed to changes. The dinosaurs were very set in their ways and we know what happened to them.


One thing most forget is that things are different in the city as far as if a business owner can afford to be stubborn with regards to changes. A big customer base will always exist in the bigger cities, no need to change. In the country you have to be more willing to adjust business strategies to gain and maintain a strong customer base. Yes, I live out in the country, 20 miles to the nearest city with a fast food joint....out in the boonies.

I was thinking of making more comments regarding this stuff, but I guess you are right Gary, some are set in their ways and closed to changes. The funny thing is everybody keeps ripping on lowballers, and I use a system that allows me to make a bit more money and they rip on that too. 

Matt


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## tinkenboutit (Aug 13, 2005)

MattR;954385 said:


> One thing most forget is that things are different in the city as far as if a business owner can afford to be stubborn with regards to changes. A big customer base will always exist in the bigger cities, no need to change. In the country you have to be more willing to adjust business strategies to gain and maintain a strong customer base. Yes, I live out in the country, 20 miles to the nearest city with a fast food joint....out in the boonies.
> 
> I was thinking of making more comments regarding this stuff, but I guess you are right Gary, some are set in their ways and closed to changes. The funny thing is everybody keeps ripping on lowballers, and I use a system that allows me to make a bit more money and they rip on that too.
> 
> ...


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mackman;954164 said:


> I'm not an eagles fan at all. I was happy to see Dallas eat them up. LOL I dont follow hockey too much. I was hoping that would get you all rowd up.


Just so you know, it worked, I got rowd up!! [email protected]#%^* Flyers!! Glad your not an Eagles fan. Very low life forms, these Eagle fans.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

MattR;954385 said:


> One thing most forget is that things are different in the city as far as if a business owner can afford to be stubborn with regards to changes. A big customer base will always exist in the bigger cities, no need to change. In the country you have to be more willing to adjust business strategies to gain and maintain a strong customer base. Yes, I live out in the country, 20 miles to the nearest city with a fast food joint....out in the boonies.
> 
> I was thinking of making more comments regarding this stuff, but I guess you are right Gary, some are set in their ways and closed to changes. The funny thing is everybody keeps ripping on lowballers, and I use a system that allows me to make a bit more money and they rip on that too.
> 
> Matt


Matt, I understand where your coming from. I've been to your area before, very rural, agricutural, conservative. I also understand that the plows aren't "free" if your gaining loyalty from these customers. I noticed you stated that you charge near double what another local competitor does. There has to be SOME reason you can pull that off.


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## SnowMatt13 (Jan 8, 2003)

When I plowed commercially it was billed at an hourly rate with a minimum.
This was spelled out in the contract that they signed.


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## KCsnowman (Jan 8, 2010)

If there is enough of a drift, I charge for an average across all the depths on the lot or drive.


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

tinkenboutit;954447 said:


> That's the nice thing about being in business for yourself. You get to do things your way.
> I just can't understand how you can possibly think you can "make a bit more money" by working for free. Maybe I'm just being dense and slow but I've never made money by working for free. This isn't really like advertising. You are just telling people that they can take advantage of you. Believe me, they would around here. They are cheap with a capital "CH".
> 
> "I lose money on every job but I make it up in volume."


If you go back a bit to a previous post of mine, I show how a small increase if $2 on every $20 charged makes up for the one "free" plow they get. If there is 20 plowable snow events and the drive is normally a $20 drive, by charging the $22 and giving out one free one per year, I make $18 more per year than if I just charged the straight $20 and no free plow. The nice thing is people are happy with the system and so am I.



jomama45;954625 said:


> I've been to your area before, very rural, agricutural, conservative.


 I actually grew up down towards your area, in Hartford. I worked for some time at Hartford Finishing which was, or maybe still is, a partner company to Sno-Way plows. We did the powder coating work on the plow parts. Lived down there until the summer of 1999, when I moved up here. Even though I miss my friends that still live down there, I do not regret moving here. It is so peacefull and to walk outside at night and hear the coyotes yelping or the wolves howling is just amazing.



jomama45;954625 said:


> I noticed you stated that you charge near double what another local competitor does. There has to be SOME reason you can pull that off.


Yeah it is very rural..lol. Regarding the competitor's prices... Last year when I started checking prices of what my competition was getting, I found out most drives close by me he was charging between $20-$40. Now keep in mind I did not want to start any plow wars, so I decided to use the "free plow" system and I was quoting people $22 for a drive that he would do at $20. Only difference is I offered a one free plow per year. This way I was not lowballing him and actually a bit higher per event. Well, from what I heard is he has lowered his prices by 50% of what he always had charged. I also was told that he has dropped prices that low in hopes to keep me from gaining anymore customers. Probably hoping I would just give up plowing. Well funny thing happened, I ended up snagging some of his customers away (not on purpose, they contacted me) after he had lowered his prices. Last customer that signed with me said that the other guy was always a little bit grumpy before I started plowing, but now this year his attitude is even worse, and that is why he called me for plowing his drive from now on. I am sure that some day I will be meeting that other guy in one of the drives I plow. So my rates being twice as much as the other guy's rates was none of my doing. Honestly I would not plow those $20 drives for $10 like he does now. I am sure he was not thinking when did decided to change the price he charges, because sooner or later he is going to have to raise them and then try to explain to people why he has to charge $20 instead of $10...lol.

Matt


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## tinkenboutit (Aug 13, 2005)

MattR;956212 said:


> If you go back a bit to a previous post of mine, I show how a small increase if $2 on every $20 charged makes up for the one "free" plow they get. If there is 20 plowable snow events and the drive is normally a $20 drive, by charging the $22 and giving out one free one per year, I make $18 more per year than if I just charged the straight $20 and no free plow. The nice thing is people are happy with the system and so am I.
> 
> I actually grew up down towards your area, in Hartford. I worked for some time at Hartford Finishing which was, or maybe still is, a partner company to Sno-Way plows. We did the powder coating work on the plow parts. Lived down there until the summer of 1999, when I moved up here. Even though I miss my friends that still live down there, I do not regret moving here. It is so peacefull and to walk outside at night and hear the coyotes yelping or the wolves howling is just amazing.
> 
> ...


$22.00 per driveway???? How can anybody, seriously, make any money that way. Unless the driveways are stacked 50 per street. Well, if it works for you, more power to ya. Wouldn't work here. The guys like that are out of business in less than a year, here.
After re reading you said "he was charging between $20-$40. " I hope a lot of them were closer to $40.00.
Peace


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

tinkenboutit;956702 said:


> $22.00 per driveway???? How can anybody, seriously, make any money that way. Unless the driveways are stacked 50 per street. Well, if it works for you, more power to ya. Wouldn't work here. The guys like that are out of business in less than a year, here.


Well if I were to charge what most plow guys charge in the bigger cities like Madison or Milwaukee, I would not be in business for long either, nobody would hire somebody charging too much for this area. Customers are more plentiful in the cities, and of course more widespread in the country. Plus factor in that the area I live is made up of primarily currently working farmers, retired farmers, and then you have the ones who commute a minimum of 30 miles each way to work. Well the country living commuters usually have a snowblower or have made friends with the neighboring farmer and they bring the tractor over to clear the driveway and usually for the cost of fuel and a few extra bucks to buy a beer or whatever. The retired farmers almost always have younger family members still on a working farm and they have their driveway plowed by one of those tractors. And finally you have the working farmer who never should need the services of a plow service since they have tractors and skidsteers at their disposal. So now you are left with a very select few that actually need your services. Take that potential customer base and divide it by the select few people trying to also make some money plowing in this area. Yep slim pickins...lol.

Now I fully understand that I am not going to get rich by any means in this location. I do make money plowing but not to the extent that a city based business can. If I can pay for all expenses for the season plus enough extra money for my winter heating bill, and/or another plow truck, then I am happy with that for the time being. My main money is made in the warmer months and during the winter I would normally just be sitting in the house doing nothing anyways. So as long as I can pay my bills and manage a profit without lowballing and ruining the market for myself and the other plow guys, then I am happy.



tinkenboutit;956702 said:


> After re reading you said "he was charging between $20-$40. " I hope a lot of them were closer to $40.00.
> Peace


Yes most were close to $40. I have 2 so far for a bit over $40, so the $20-$40 range is basically just the normal average.

Matt


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## andcon83 (Dec 10, 2005)

Normal average here.......


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

We have to do this all the time. One drive we do is 600 ft long and right in the middle of it there is an open field towards the NW wind. The drive will be relitively free of snow and there can be 3ft drifts thru that one spot. I will whip in there and push them out for a reduced rate but not because I am trying to get that started but because like last storm that we had here over a week ago we got 18' of snow thru the nite but about 4am it changed over to rain and it poured for 3 hrs and the snow sank to 12" of something that more like wet cement than snow! The day before the wind had drifted his driveway to about 2ft drifts or enough that you had to lock into 4X4 to get thru them. I had gone up and plowed it took me 10mins and I charged him for just that but can you imagine trying to plow that mess if I had left it with that 18" of wet stuff ontop of it and the extra I would have had to do to get it to he** outta there.............. so he paid for the problem not us. 
For what its worth he can barely pay us to plow it and he should have built down closer to the road . He absoulutely cant pay me the price we charge to plow the whole driveway ever time he gets two or three drifts . But he can pay me something to help us both out. I think its how you look at it . You almost gotta put yourself in their shoes and the answer will be very clear.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

MattR;956212 said:


> I actually grew up down towards your area, in Hartford. I worked for some time at Hartford Finishing which was, or maybe still is, a partner company to Sno-Way plows. We did the powder coating work on the plow parts. Lived down there until the summer of 1999, when I moved up here. Even though I miss my friends that still live down there, I do not regret moving here. It is so peacefull and to walk outside at night and hear the coyotes yelping or the wolves howling is just amazing.


Hey Matt, I'm actually ~40 mins. East of H-ford, over near the lake. I have family in Athens, if you know where that is. I hear what your saying, it's a nice, slower-paced area. :waving:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'm more along the lines of the guys that prorate it. 

If it only takes 2 minutes instead of 5, then give them a break. 

Stick with a minimum to cover costs, but I just can't see a full charge for not doing a full push.


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## DScapes (Dec 2, 2009)

Tipped in taters! Thats great!!

I dont believe customers will expect any free services if they are provided once if you bid the original appropriately...

If you priced the drive correctly to cover expenses + a little profit, there should be plenty of room negotiate when providing half/quarter services to maintain your break-even point...
example...first plow $40, drifts may be free to 1/4 of cost ($10) if you're in the neighborhood

on the same drive...
If you priced the drive to cover costs only to keep prices to a MINIMUM, then charge full price as there's no room to negotiate to break even
example...first plow $30, drifts $20

In either scenario you're making your money, its just a matter of how you get there.
if you're in a high-drift area, then hell yeah charge $20 accross the board
, there may be 2-3 more drifts following original service (up to $60)

If you're in a low-drift area, charge top dollar in case you never have to go back but once ($50)




Thats like you expecting those taters in exchange for a free service from now on... doesn't work that way! 

mise well just re-write his contract next year to include that 40# sack of taters if thats how people think!! xysport


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

jomama45;958165 said:


> Hey Matt, I'm actually ~40 mins. East of H-ford, over near the lake. I have family in Athens, if you know where that is. I hear what your saying, it's a nice, slower-paced area. :waving:


I know where Athens is. Maybe if I ever get down that way again I will let you know. I have a friend that moved to Germantown and has been bugging me to come down and see his place. Hardest part is finding the free time.



DScapes;958563 said:


> mise well just re-write his contract next year to include that 40# sack of taters if thats how people think!! xysport


You might be onto something there since this area is loaded with potatoe farmers...lol. Before anybody thinks I am serious...YES I was joking.

Matt


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Gosh I hope they dont start this tater tippin in Maine as I am sick of taters..............


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## andcon83 (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm only half way through a 50# bag I got for a tip this summer...


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