# What is your biggest contract?



## WCLM (Jul 19, 2018)

Hello, I am 20 y/o and getting pretty established in the lawn maintenance business. I have a family member who ive been lucky to get some big commercial properties from. When I graduate from college in 1.5 years ill have the opportunity to get into plowing as well. We have discussed HOA's and office parks (he is a very established builder/commercial entrepreneur). I hardly know the first thing about plowing and am wondering what type of money there is to be made in big commercial stuff? What is your biggest contract??


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Biggest...

Biggest acres? Gross revenue? Net profit? Pain in the ass?


----------



## WCLM (Jul 19, 2018)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Biggest...
> 
> Biggest acres? Gross revenue? Net profit? Pain in the ass?


Gross.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

WCLM said:


> Gross.


That number isn't always what it's cracked up to be. Single site would be in the 70k range. Single customer would be in the 300k range.

But who cares if you gross 500k if you lost 50k to do it?


----------



## WCLM (Jul 19, 2018)

John_DeereGreen said:


> That number isn't always what it's cracked up to be. Single site would be in the 70k range. Single customer would be in the 300k range.
> 
> But who cares if you gross 500k if you lost 50k to do it?


I'm aware. Just trying to get a rough idea.. so you're saying multiple properties from the same ownership for you is in the 300k range correct? What type of property is the 70k?


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

WCLM said:


> I'm aware. Just trying to get a rough idea.. so you're saying multiple properties from the same ownership for you is in the 300k range correct? What type of property is the 70k?


6 day a week 3 shift a day factory. We actually have more than one like that. The bigger one the gross is less than the smaller one because the bigger one has a salt bin on site that we order the salt to fill as needed. They are billed for the salt by my supplier and just pay us to spread it.

On the second...not the same ownership. Same national management company though.


----------



## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

work for someone doing large commercial for a couple of years for the knowledge and first hand experience of the problems associated with it


----------



## WCLM (Jul 19, 2018)

leolkfrm said:


> work for someone doing large commercial for a couple of years for the knowledge and first hand experience of the problems associated with it


That's what I plan on doing this winter while I am home for college. Thanks


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WCLM said:


> Gross.


Why?


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why?


 LMAO he wants to be a big player and loads of money like the rest of us.   Meaning ya okay!


----------



## WCLM (Jul 19, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why?


Okay, what is your biggest net contract? Better?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WCLM said:


> Okay, what is your biggest net contract? Better?


Why?


----------



## WCLM (Jul 19, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why?


Why what?


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why?


Gross income is where you make all the money. They must teach that in colleague where you get your edumucation.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

I have no skin in the game....


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Biggest contract for a company I previously was associated with was well over $1 million


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

WCLM said:


> Okay, what is your biggest net contract? Better?


 In the small region I work in the largest gross snow and Ice contract are $190K to $220K. You get up by Rochester some of the malls they are probably $300K plus. Go do your stint with a large snow and ice contractor then come back with your thoughts. You need that first, then you will have some better questions.

I'm thinking your getting a head of yourself. It's nice to have dreams but you need the capitol and commitment to go with it.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> Biggest contract for a company I previously was associated with was well over $1 million


That's alot of skin....


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> That's alot of skin....


Their skin....Not mine


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Defcon 5 said:


> Biggest contract for a company I previously was associated with was well over $1 million


 Well over a mill I would be okay with just working that for the whole year, if the margins are good. 20% net that's all I need. :laugh:


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WCLM said:


> Why what?


Because I don't think you know what you're asking. That's why.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Prices better be going up this year with the rumors I've heard from some salt suppliers.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

WCLM said:


> Why what?


 You have to be more specific with your questions if you want some honest responses. Why are you worried about gross revenue before you really got started, got your feet wet. To answer your question on a $70K gross that is enough commitment for a guy starting out, What is your intention on start up capitol etc. There is a lot to determine with your ability and capitol, equipment, liabilities, qualifying for the work, dedicated equipment,employee's the list goes on to determine gross income.


----------



## WCLM (Jul 19, 2018)

FredG said:


> You have to be more specific with your questions if you want some honest responses. Why are you worried about gross revenue before you really got started, got your feet wet. To answer your question on a $70K gross that is enough commitment for a guy starting out, What is your intention on start up capitol etc. There is a lot to determine with your ability and capitol, equipment, liabilities, qualifying for the work, dedicated equipment,employee's the list goes on to determine gross income.


It was really just a simple question, didn't meant for so much thought to be put into it. Was just looking for numbers. I'm not worried about equipment, startup capital, employees, etc


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

WCLM said:


> It was really just a simple question, didn't meant for so much thought to be put into it. Was just looking for numbers. I'm not worried about equipment, startup capital, employees, etc


Ok, now you are just screwing with everyone


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WCLM said:


> It was really just a simple question, didn't meant for so much thought to be put into it. Was just looking for numbers. I'm not worried about equipment, startup capital, employees, etc


You just proved my point.

It's a simple question with a complex answer.

Sure net is a big part of the answer. But is the net worth the investment or hassle. Bigger gross doesn't always equate to bigger net.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Ok, now you are just screwing with everyone


Hence...my repeated question why?


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Hence...my repeated question why?


I wonder if he knows our friend @Snowmanbob ?

'Cuz this all strikes me as very familiar...


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

WCLM said:


> It was really just a simple question, didn't meant for so much thought to be put into it. Was just looking for numbers. I'm not worried about equipment, startup capital, employees, etc


 Okay then, above you have well over a mill down to $70K gross, You should be good to go if equipment, liabilitys, capitol, employee's etc are no worries. Anything else?


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Fred....You and Oomkes are gonna scare this lad away....


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

LapeerLandscape said:


> How much can you gross with your lemonade stand.


 YA!! :laugh:


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Fred....You and Oomkes are gonna scare this lad away....


Oh...


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

alright guys, no need for too much sarcasm for the new guy...offer some advice or assistance, but no need to make fun of someone or degrade the guy


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Defcon 5 said:


> Fred....You and Oomkes are gonna scare this lad away....


 You think? I thought we were professional.  Just trying to straighten up one of our future snow and ice contractor.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> alright guys, no need for too much sarcasm for the new guy...offer some advice or assistance, but no need to make fun of someone or degrade the guy


Obviously directed at the guy with no skin in the game...


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Obviously directed at the guy with no skin in the game...


no, directed at everyone trying to be smart*****, rather than offering advice or trying to help the guy out and point him in the right direction. people come here to ask guys like you and other pro's advice and assistance, not to be degraded or made fun of


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> no, directed at everyone trying to be smart*****, rather than offering advice or trying to help the guy out and point him in the right direction. people come here to ask guys like you and other pro's advice and assistance, not to be degraded or made fun of


Understood...I'll try to continue the education process he is not receiving from college\university.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

The OP's questions are not answerable without a few questions from the peanut gallery. Gross is not always the answer to success and should never be your main business model. I could agree with gross in retail but not in the dirt or snow.


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

FredG said:


> The OP's questions are not answerable without a few questions from the peanut gallery. Gross is not always the answer to success and should never be your main business model. I could agree with gross in retail but not in the dirt or snow.


agreed, and no problem with that...just doesn't need to be a joke or have to make fun of someone


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

WCLM said:


> That's what I plan on doing this winter while I am home for college. Thanks


Not quite sure I follow this response. You come home to go to college? And you plan on plowing snow while going to college?


----------



## WCLM (Jul 19, 2018)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Not quite sure I follow this response. You come home to go to college? And you plan on plowing snow while going to college?


I meant to say from, not for. Meaning home for winter break


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Not quite sure I follow this response. You come home to go to college? And you plan on plowing snow while going to college?


I believe he was planning on doing a $300k account during his winter break while out of school. Unless I misunderstood.

#teamwork #positivethinking


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WCLM said:


> I meant to say from, not for. Meaning home for winter break


OK...not being a smartass...but are you serious Clark?

It only snows while you're home on break?

You think someone is going to hire you--with no experience--for just a few weeks and you're guaranteed to plow some snow during that time frame?

Does it snow where you go to college? My nephew plowed while in college. I plowed while in college.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> OK...not being a smartass...but are you serious Clark?


You have to be smart to be a smarta$$


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

cwren2472 said:


> I believe he was planning on doing a $300k account during his winter break while out of school. Unless I misunderstood.


 Unless there is some strings to pull, or who he knows he can't qualify, with the exception of a NSP maybe. Unless someone already educated him he has not asked any question that will make him successful. Must be not worried about average snowfall, ground temps, salt and storage, We know he's all set with capitol, liabilities, dedicated equipment and the tough task of finding drivers and operators. Good Luck


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

WCLM said:


> I meant to say from, not for. Meaning home for winter break


I dont see what any of this has to do with (whats your biggest contract) I would rather have a good assortment of sizes. Plus just as important are the times they open so you can continue to plow into the later morning. We have 24 hour stores then move to places that open at 7 and so on.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WCLM said:


> I meant to say from, not for. Meaning home for winter break


Fred reminded me of a saying my dad was fond of:

You'll never get the right answer(s) if you don't ask the right question.

Think on that...ask one of your business profs for advice...or try asking (here) what questions you should be asking.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I dont see what any of this has to do with (whats your biggest contract) I would rather have a good assortment of sizes. Plus just as important are the times they open so you can continue to plow into the later morning. We have 24 hour stores then move to places that open at 7 and so on.


Why have a bunch of accounts when you can just have a Walmart? Oh, and does anyone know who I call to get that Walmart?


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

WCLM said:


> I meant to say from, not for. Meaning home for winter break


 Not for nothing, have you gave any thought to the hours and Holidays you have to commit to? Not fun on a Holiday when everybody is having food and drink coma's and your in a plow truck or equipment. It hurts your feelings and don't change.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

OK, you guys have ruined this site for so long now. This guy is asking simple questions that can be answered without the condescending remarks. The answers can be explained without being jerks.
My number one account I did between 20k-40k in snow gross and netted somewhere in 75% range. We were a small landscape/snow removal company. My biggest account I had we did not do the snow for because it was just too big. Did roughly 110k gross in landscaping on it.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WIPensFan said:


> The answers can be explained without being jerks.


None of my questions were condescending. There's a philosophy I live by: give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for life.

Sometimes questions can be answered easily, but in the long run it doesn't help the questioner. This is one of those situations.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

WIPensFan said:


> OK, you guys have ruined this site for so long now. This guy is asking simple questions that can be answered without the condescending remarks. The answers can be explained without being jerks.
> My number one account I did between 20k-40k in snow gross and netted somewhere in 75% range. We were a small landscape/snow removal company. My biggest account I had we did not do the snow for because it was just too big. Did roughly 110k gross in landscaping on it.


So ....You no longer have skin in the game??


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> None of my questions were condescending. There's a philosophy I live by: give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for life.
> 
> Sometimes questions can be answered easily, but in the long run it doesn't help the questioner. This is one of those situations.


Mark, I know you are a smart guy that has worked in this profession for a long time and can offer great advice. Just do that. It makes no sense for you to act the way you do. I could understand if people are posting BS and bragging and are obviously full of it, but that is not always the case.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> So ....You no longer have skin in the game??


 Thank god...NO!


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

WIPensFan said:


> Mark, I know you are a smart guy that has worked in this profession for a long time and can offer great advice. Just do that. It makes no sense for you to act the way you do. I could understand if people are posting BS and bragging and are obviously full of it, but that is not always the case.


totally agree...there's no need for it in every thread.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WIPensFan said:


> Mark, I know you are a smart guy that has worked in this profession for a long time and can offer great advice. Just do that. It makes no sense for you to act the way you do. I could understand if people are posting BS and bragging and are obviously full of it, but that is not always the case.


So when you were in school, did your teacher just give you the answer to everything or did he\she teach you how to find the answer?

But if that's the case, I'll stick to the Random threads and won't provide advice.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'll stick to the Random threads and won't provide advice.


Sure


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Wouldn't it make more sense to answer the guy's question and then ask why he would like to know the answer to the question?


Not really. Just because someone asks a question doesn't mean that the person knows the right question to ask to solve their problem.

Customers ask me questions every day and if I can tell by their question that they are going to screw something up, should I just answer the question and not ask for further information?


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

WIPensFan said:


> OK, you guys have ruined this site for so long now. This guy is asking simple questions that can be answered without the condescending remarks. The answers can be explained without being jerks.
> My number one account I did between 20k-40k in snow gross and netted somewhere in 75% range. We were a small landscape/snow removal company. My biggest account I had we did not do the snow for because it was just too big. Did roughly 110k gross in landscaping on it.


 How did we ruin the site? He comes here asking about gross, please tell me how this will make him successful without no knowledge of the business? Appears to me you come with your big wood spoon. Most don't appreciate being called a jerk. He's a 20 year old kid, if he truly wants to learn he come to the right place. If he wants to blow off the elder self made businessmen who wants to waste there free knowledge and time.

His response to me, I'm not worried about capitol, liabilities, dedicated equipment, employee's or qualifying for a job. That's okay I had big dreams to at 20, reality will soon be in his face just like the rest of us at 20.


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

ok guys, we've turned the thread into something it's not so time to move on. OP, take the advice you were given as there is some good advice in here, do your homework on the business, search the site, etc. etc. and make your decision wisely before just jumping in.


----------

