# Boss now involved with Snowrator machine...



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

So got on the phone with LT Rich to order some stuff for the Zsprays before Winter and get them ready.... Then said ok now let me get into this Snowrator....

Pretty much was told all new wiring, spinner control and even new front blades are coming for all machine owners... Boss dealers would be doing all upgrades @cwren2472 . Boss was revamping all issues they seen. This is FYI for anyone owning one. I started to dig into mine and glad I called before starting my own modifications... Should be getting letters from Boss regarding this shortly was the word...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

News to me. When I hear something, I'll let you know.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

That certainly sounds like a positive. I passed buying one of these due to issues. If they are going to step up, i would have to say time is of the essence as its end of Oct and known issues need parts and service asap. If anyone actually gets this level of service/upgrades please advise as that would be excellent.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> So got on the phone with LT Rich to order some stuff for the Zsprays before Winter and get them ready.... Then said ok now let me get into this Snowrator....
> 
> Pretty much was told all new wiring, spinner control and even new front blades are coming for all machine owners... Boss dealers would be doing all upgrades @cwren2472 . Boss was revamping all issues they seen. This is FYI for anyone owning one. I started to dig into mine and glad I called before starting my own modifications... Should be getting letters from Boss regarding this shortly was the word...


Stupid question: did they say why the LT Rich dealers weren't doing the upgrades?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> Stupid question: did they say why the LT Rich dealers weren't doing the upgrades?


I would assume since it's Boss doing the upgrades etc... Most of the LT Rich products dealers that I know of are Siteone landscape supply stores... Let's just say they had to run to the gas station with a 2.5 gallon gas can to get mine going when I bought them...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

This is Game Changing News....Will they be adding The Cube or EXT option to the Snowerator


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I did get a memo from BOSS this morning. They said that, contrary to popular belief, it is not legally required to talk about the QuickCube or EXT every time their name is mentioned. Who knew?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

cwren2472 said:


> I did get a memo from BOSS this morning. They said that, contrary to popular belief, it is not legally required to talk about the QuickCube or EXT every time their name is mentioned. Who knew?


What about the Anchor Pro???...Was That mentioned in the "Memo"??....Here's a thought for Toro-Boss...A little less Memo writing and a little more R&D


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

cwren2472 said:


> I did get a memo from BOSS this morning. They said that, contrary to popular belief, it is not legally required to talk about the QuickCube or EXT every time their name is mentioned. Who knew?


I'd agree with that and don't think it is necessary to do it here either...so, let's continue with the discussion

thanks


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Stupid question: did they say why the LT Rich dealers weren't doing the upgrades?


I would have thought that either Exmark or Toro dealers would be doing the upgrades.

I bought my ZSpray from SiteOne, but our Toro dealer was becoming a dealer for them. That was last year, long before the buyout.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Not that I don't relish the thought of doing electrical warranty work on machines that I've never even seen pictures of. Just curious is all.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Not that I don't relish the thought of doing electrical warranty work on machines that I've never even seen pictures of. Just curious is all.


SKW


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> SKW


Huh?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Huh?


It's a new acronym Sno came up with...good luck.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> Not that I don't relish the thought of doing electrical warranty work on machines that I've never even seen pictures of. Just curious is all.


Just make sure your scotch lock bin inventory is on the full side...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Just make sure your scotch lock bin inventory is on the full side...


You know how much those things cost each? We prefer twisty-lock-connections™


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I would assume since it's Boss doing the upgrades etc... Most of the LT Rich products dealers that I know of are Siteone landscape supply stores... Let's just say they had to run to the gas station with a 2.5 gallon gas can to get mine going when I bought them...


When they said they didn't have fuel for your machines you should have told them I'll just take the case of PGP's


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Well I was keeping positive with LT Rich but things just went south in a hurry...

So called today to ask when I can expect my updated parts for my Snowrator. Meanwhile I did leave a message Fri asking them same with no return call... So I get patched in with someone identifying as Boss now, and says I need to send you a questionnaire to fill out about your machine... So after numerous four letter metaphors and calling it a POS many times and saying this is an absolute joke... he pretty much agreed with me several times... Once I get the questionnaire back to them I will be put on a list... Yep a list.

Meanwhile I waited before fixing the machine myself to hopefully get the promised upgrades. So now 10K sitting this next storm out again I guess...

Call back to talk to the LT Rich guy I purchased some Zspray parts from several weeks ago to find out what is going on... Now no clue didn't even know the guy who sent the questionnaire...

I proceed to voice my displeasure and state I need some more parts for my Zpray (spinner) can I order them from you and he states they no longer do that... I need to go to parts.exmark.com. Might be time to unload all these products...

Now I did check that website out a little bit ago and could not find anything to do with LT Rich products on there... Maybe I need to calm down before going back as I am missing something but what we have here is an absolute dumpster fire...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Absolute what? Cystic fibrosis? Cerebral fluid?

So I gather those warranty electrical pieces probably wont be showing up at my doorstep any time soon.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I proceed to voice my displeasure and state I need some more parts for my Zpray (spinner) can I order them from you and he states they no longer do that... I need to go to parts.exmark.com. Might be time to unload all these products...


https://www.steelgreenmfg.com/

3 or 4 guys from LT Rich started this up a few months ago. They have some ZSpray parts available.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

That is not sounding good since i just got one delivered on friday.

I had talked with Shane Bell (sales and marketing mgr) of LT Rich Produts on Nov 6 and he assured me they would take care of current/existing machines no issue at all, new controllers and new blades. That wasnt even a week ago and the only reason I agreed to take one. Hmm I am not feeling warm and fuzzy at the moment.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Well I was keeping positive with LT Rich but things just went south in a hurry...
> 
> So called today to ask when I can expect my updated parts for my Snowrator. Meanwhile I did leave a message Fri asking them same with no return call... So I get patched in with someone identifying as Boss now, and says I need to send you a questionnaire to fill out about your machine... So after numerous four letter metaphors and calling it a POS many times and saying this is an absolute joke... he pretty much agreed with me several times... Once I get the questionnaire back to them I will be put on a list... Yep a list.
> 
> ...


With the amount of money you have spent on their products it's understandable that you ran hot...I give you credit for not running hotter....When the questioner arrives take it into the bathroom and use it as TP and mail it back...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

rick W said:


> That is not sounding good since i just got one delivered on friday.
> 
> I had talked with Shane Bell (sales and marketing mgr) of LT Rich Produts on Nov 6 and he assured me they would take care of current/existing machines no issue at all, new controllers and new blades. That wasnt even a week ago and the only reason I agreed to take one. Hmm I am not feeling warm and fuzzy at the moment.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Well I was keeping positive with LT Rich but things just went south in a hurry...
> 
> So called today to ask when I can expect my updated parts for my Snowrator. Meanwhile I did leave a message Fri asking them same with no return call... So I get patched in with someone identifying as Boss now, and says I need to send you a questionnaire to fill out about your machine... So after numerous four letter metaphors and calling it a POS many times and saying this is an absolute joke... he pretty much agreed with me several times... Once I get the questionnaire back to them I will be put on a list... Yep a list.
> 
> ...


Just wondered what issues you had as i would like my guy go over ours as thoroughly as possible to check hardware, connections etc before it gets on the job site. Any tips or suggestions what to inspect, fix, upgrade or keep an eye on as weak point? Other than the salter controller upgrade and a better blade (what is wrong with current blade, have they had failures?), what else you looking for upgrades on?
I did have a quick look over ours and seems like all electrical connections and hardware up to snuff from factory. One really odd thing is there is no master power switch. I find that very odd and will install one. So with honda key off...and your guys walking away from machine, lights, agitator, spinner etc all still work and hour meter and volt meter screen stay on. Doesnt seem like a good idea, too easy to have a dead battery next time its needed. How can they not have a master power switch? Am i missing something? Any other fixes suggested?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

rick W said:


> Just wondered what issues you had as i would like my guy go over ours as thoroughly as possible to check hardware, connections etc before it gets on the job site. Any tips or suggestions what to inspect, fix, upgrade or keep an eye on as weak point? Other than the salter controller upgrade and a better blade (what is wrong with current blade, have they had failures?), what else you looking for upgrades on?
> I did have a quick look over ours and seems like all electrical connections and hardware up to snuff from factory. One really odd thing is there is no master power switch. I find that very odd and will install one. So with honda key off...and your guys walking away from machine, lights, agitator, spinner etc all still work and hour meter and volt meter screen stay on. Doesnt seem like a good idea, too easy to have a dead battery next time its needed. How can they not have a master power switch? Am i missing something? Any other fixes suggested?


It'll be fine most likely the first year... The main issues come up with connections at the distribution bar bottom left by the starter... Most corroded apart etc... The blade has actually been fine for us just subbed in a rubber cutting edge... The issue I had with the blade was when all the way up it would bounce and hit the spinner... This just bent everything enough that it created some drag on the motor and started popping fuses...

A master kill switch is a good idea but needs to include everything especially the spinner as that's the one thing you may not hear still running and kills the battery.

The other thing I have is all three lights have LEDs that have come loose inside and rattle around... Just annoying for a year old machine...

And yes spinner control is totally trashed and not working. The stupid little screws inside the box to get it apart are a total pita to get out especially with any kind of corrosion on them...

@Mark Oomkes totally forgot about the SteelGreen, called today and ordered some parts... Asked if they had anything for the Snowrator by chance...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> @Mark Oomkes totally forgot about the SteelGreen, called today and ordered some parts... Asked if they had anything for the Snowrator by chance...


Thumbs Up


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Sounds like Fluid Filming the S..t out of those units when you get them would be pertinent. Can't believe what you guys are over paying for those POS's.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

I hummed and hawed about this purchase for a month. $10K atv wasnt doing the job at all and had to go and $26k for ventrac ssv didnt make sense. Looked at all the options and needed something that could do narrow walks, get in tight spaces etc. Tractor or any longer machines didn't work. Got a new model with apparently some upgrades done, i think a pretty good discount off list and a promise to get all the upgrades they come up with. Not a lot of options for the job. Fingers crossed they follow through and improve on the weak links. We will go over every connection, and fitting and fastener to ensure good. All electrical looks properly shrink tubed, but we find liquid electrical tape is a good idea on those, then a bath in LPS 3 or whatever their rust oil is called and will see how we do.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

WIPensFan said:


> Sounds like Fluid Filming the S..t out of those units when you get them would be pertinent. Can't believe what you guys are over paying for those POS's.


Great another Einstein...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Well I found my new favorite company... Hopefully the letter I heard they have been sent doesn't pan out though...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Let me guess...patent infringement?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Well I found my new favorite company... Hopefully the letter I heard they have been sent doesn't pan out though...
> 
> View attachment 186192


Cease and Desist I'm guessing....They got Toro Lawyers now....Better suits and Haircuts


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Great another Einstein...


I'm not the one with a $10k sidewalk machine that doesn't work...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

WIPensFan said:


> I'm not the one with a $10k sidewalk machine that doesn't work...


Please enlighten us all with your vast knowledge of an alternative last year then...


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Please enlighten us all with your vast knowledge of an alternative last year then...


Winter H2B's from Russia+ shovels


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Please enlighten us all with your vast knowledge of an alternative last year then...


What was "last year"?? Why do you need this particular machine?
I always used snowblowers , shovels or a skid steer if it will fit on the walk. Then 5 gal buckets or push spreader for salt.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

So I got the expected bulletin from BOSS regarding this. Only a select few BOSS dealers will actually be handling these claims and parts/service. A list can be found by following the link below.

https://www.bossplow.com/en/snowrator-faqs

From the bulletin:
*
Snowrator Sales and Service*

During the 2018-2019 season, Snowrator whole goods will only be sold through existing LT Rich channels. At this time, the purchase of complete Snowrator units is not available to BOSS Distributors.

In the future Snowrator will be branded BOSS and we will continue to grow the Snowrator sales channel to better serve customer needs for whole goods, parts, and service. Snowrator sales will be a separate sales channel from BOSS.

Technical support for the Snowrator product has transitioned to BOSS.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> So I got the expected bulletin from BOSS regarding this. Only a select few BOSS dealers will actually be handling these claims and parts/service. A list can be found by following the link below.
> 
> https://www.bossplow.com/en/snowrator-faqs
> 
> ...


So did you make the "special" list...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> So did you make the "special" list...


I'm guessing.....No


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> So did you make the "special" list...


I've made many "special" lists. But not this one


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> I've made many "special" lists. But not this one


Did you put this sign out for Avery?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Did you put this sign out for Avery?
> 
> View attachment 186281


No, because it wasn't "wicked" enough. It's like "epic", you have to use it with restraint


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

cwren2472 said:


> No, because it wasn't "wicked" enough. It's like "epic", you have to use it with restraint


Did you mean "EPAC"?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

m_ice said:


> Did you mean "EPAC"?


It did set a record for November snowfall. I guess that qualifies as a "GAMECHANGER" of a storm


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

cwren2472 said:


> It did set a record for November snowfall. I guess that qualifies as a "GAMECHANGER" of a storm


Gamechanga


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> So got on the phone with LT Rich to order some stuff for the Zsprays before Winter and get them ready.... Then said ok now let me get into this Snowrator....
> 
> Pretty much was told all new wiring, spinner control and even new front blades are coming for all machine owners... Boss dealers would be doing all upgrades @cwren2472 . Boss was revamping all issues they seen. This is FYI for anyone owning one. I started to dig into mine and glad I called before starting my own modifications... Should be getting letters from Boss regarding this shortly was the word...


weird, considering boss is toro and toro has the Grandstand that does snow stuff..... making their own competition?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

tpendagast said:


> weird, considering boss is toro and toro has the Grandstand that does snow stuff..... making their own competition?


The shareholders for Douglas Dynamics think theres absolutely nothing wrong with that


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

cwren2472 said:


> The shareholders for Douglas Dynamics think theres absolutely nothing wrong with that


Oh-Tay!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

tpendagast said:


> weird, considering boss is toro and toro has the Grandstand that does snow stuff..... making their own competition?


Multiforce plow is garbage.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Interesting. Sounds like the 2019 models Will be painted red. At least the positive is boss sounds like they will throw some $ at it and grow/tweak/improve the product. Will look forward to hearing how they move it forward.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Multiforce plow is garbage.


That's what's it's called

Even so 
They have their fingers in both things 
Seems counter productive

What does multi force do besides mow and plow 
Is that it?
Then it should be dual force!


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

rick W said:


> Interesting. Sounds like the 2019 models Will be painted red. At least the positive is boss sounds like they will throw some $ at it and grow/tweak/improve the product. Will look forward to hearing how they move it forward.


They seemed slow, clunky, and clumsy when I checked them out last year 
Kinda reminded me of trying to plow with a 90s era 4 paw dingo

I'm sure it's a champ in a straight line... but I just see too much running into things and causing damage if you have a sidewalk employee on one


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

How is an increase in market share counter-productive? If you cant beat the competition then buy them! 
If I'm Ventrac now is the time to sell for optimum profit or watch the prices creep up, granted their product line is slightly different than DD's objective.
If I'm DD I'm finding a way to get my hand in the till???


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

tpendagast said:


> They seemed slow, clunky, and clumsy when I checked them out last year
> Kinda reminded me of trying to plow with a 90s era 4 paw dingo
> 
> I'm sure it's a champ in a straight line... but I just see too much running into things and causing damage if you have a sidewalk employee on one


How would you expect a 4wd short wheel base skid style drive to steer...?



tpendagast said:


> That's what's it's called
> 
> Even so
> They have their fingers in both things
> ...


I actually thought they purchased LT Rich for the Zsprays but not positive...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

tpendagast said:


> What does multi force do besides mow and plow
> Is that it?


They have a snowblower and leaf blower. Maybe more? Bagger is mediocre.

I know others have said the plow works good for them and it might. Even if it does, you have to go get a push spreader or bucket and spread salt.

I need something that works in all conditions, not just short runs pushing into a parking lot or beds. @Aerospace Eng said something about the plow being too far away from the drive wheels. I don't understand the physics but it makes sense. Basically as soon as you lose traction you're SOL. Or if the banks build up, it won't go fast enough to throw it over the top. So you end up going 10 feet, pushing to one side, then the other. It doesn't take much to lose traction either. For me it worked OK maybe 20% of the time. Maybe.

Bought a Ventrac SSV and couldn't be happier with the machine and production rates so far. One minor thing, loading the drop spreader leaves quite a bit to be desired, but it's production is making up for it. Still think it could be improved on.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> How would you expect a 4wd short wheel base skid style drive to steer...?


Kind crappy on dry pavement. Snow or wet the SSV doesn't do too bad.



Ajlawn1 said:


> I actually thought they purchased LT Rich for the Zsprays but not positive...


I think you're correct, guessing the Snowrator is a nice addition. And will be sold through Boss dealers while MultiForce's will go through Toro dealers.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Doesn’t Toro-Exmark-Boss already have a Zspray type machine??....I would like to preface this question by saying I have no skin in the game and have been out of the game a long time


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> Doesn't Toro-Exmark-Boss already have a Zspray type machine??....I would like to preface this question by saying I have no skin in the game and have been out of the game a long time


Yes


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Yes
> 
> View attachment 186305


Isn't that the homeowner model?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Doesn't Toro-Exmark-Boss already have a Zspray type machine??....I would like to preface this question by saying I have no skin in the game and have been out of the game a long time


As Aj posted, they do. Call me a spreader\sprayer snob, but that thing looks like a Tonka toy compared to a ZSpray. I would have been embarrassed if I was a dealer and was told to sell those things compared to a ZSpray. I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't last 1 season being used day in and day out by an applicator (or spreader monkeys).

Just as Douglas Dynamics bought Blizzard because they were losing market share, I am quite confident that Toro was not gaining any market share with this "thing".


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> They have a snowblower and leaf blower. Maybe more? Bagger is mediocre.
> 
> I know others have said the plow works good for them and it might. Even if it does, you have to go get a push spreader or bucket and spread salt.
> 
> ...


So the vetrac goes faster than the multifirce? 
I haven't seen the leaf blower for the multiforce 
Even in promotional material

The snowrator I rode at gie didn't seem very speedy 
Of course there was no snow

We had the same sidewalk issues with the snow ex walkbehind broom/blade 
First few snow falls, then no place for snow to go 
Works well pushing sidewalks adjacent to a parking lot where the plow can take it away 
But on "tunnel" sidewalks it's a downer

We switched to turf teq
Much more powerful/rugged machine 
I keep wanting to put blades/snowblower on the walkers but I get voted against on that


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Isn't that the homeowner model?


No clue I hate their crap so not in tune with their stuff too much... I thought I seen them with a steering wheel too... You'd have to be a pretty BA homeowner to have one in your shed though...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> No clue I hate their crap so not in tune with their stuff too much... I thought I seen them with a steering wheel too... You'd have to be a pretty BA homeowner to have one in your shed though...


I was referring to how "heavy duty" they aren't.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

tpendagast said:


> So the vetrac goes faster than the multifirce?
> I haven't seen the leaf blower for the multiforce
> Even in promotional material
> 
> ...


Ventrac is 8 MPH, plenty fast for sidewalks.

I hope to do a review on the SSV with our experiences so far. No snow banks built up, but it has been flat out awesome so far.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> No clue I hate their crap so not in tune with their stuff too much... I thought I seen them with a steering wheel too... You'd have to be a pretty BA homeowner to have one in your shed though...


I'm completely opposite on the Exmark line and love my mowers but will agree the sprayer is a POS! That is why we run Z sprays!


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I was referring to how "heavy duty" they aren't.


Thumbs Up Gotcha...

You don't like the stamped steel tractor front and rear wheels is what you're saying...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Thumbs Up Gotcha...
> 
> You don't like the stamped steel tractor front and rear wheels is what you're saying...


Yeah...we'll go with that.

Or the handles. Hopper. Sprayer. Frame. Engine. Transmission.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Ventrac ssv is certainly a nicer machine Don’t think any question. Just for giggles... in the US what is the going sale price for a ssv with blade, sprayer and salter and what is the price of a snowrator equiped the same. In the great white north, ssv is 24k approx snowrator equiped as specd is 14 oh then ad 13 percent tax. Anyway guess we will see how it pans out but if ssv would be prices say 30 percent over snowrator it would kill it. At the current price it’s so close to a fully equiped diesel cabbed sub tractor that it doesn’t make sense here yet. Will see if I made a poor choice or not over next few months.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

rick W said:


> Ventrac ssv is certainly a nicer machine Don't think any question. Just for giggles... in the US what is the going sale price for a ssv with blade, sprayer and salter and what is the price of a snowrator equiped the same. In the great white north, ssv is 24k approx snowrator equiped as specd is 14 oh then ad 13 percent tax. Anyway guess we will see how it pans out but if ssv would be prices say 30 percent over snowrator it would kill it. At the current price it's so close to a fully equiped diesel cabbed sub tractor that it doesn't make sense here yet. Will see if I made a poor choice or not over next few months.


Without the blower and broom it's about 2 Snowrators to one SSV approximately... Snowrator was $9500.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rick W said:


> In the great white north, ssv is 24k approx snowrator equiped as specd is 14 oh then ad 13 percent tax.


Less than that. I got a broom and 54" blade and am close to that.



rick W said:


> At the current price it's so close to a fully equiped diesel cabbed sub tractor that it doesn't make sense here yet.


It can't do what a tractor can. If a tractor worked on the accounts I am using the SSV on I would be using one. I have 2 1025's and a 3046 setup for walks.

At this point, if the money was there I would be ordering another and getting rid of a 1025.

The ZPlow will be a backup in the future, the SSV is far and away superior to it. And I thought the ZPlow was awesome.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Ventrac is 8 MPH, plenty fast for sidewalks.
> 
> I hope to do a review on the SSV with our experiences so far. No snow banks built up, but it has been flat out awesome so far.


Your Welcome


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Your Welcome


For what??????????????


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> As Aj posted, they do. Call me a spreader\sprayer snob, but that thing looks like a Tonka toy compared to a ZSpray. I would have been embarrassed if I was a dealer and was told to sell those things compared to a ZSpray. I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't last 1 season being used day in and day out by an applicator (or spreader monkeys).
> 
> Just as Douglas Dynamics bought Blizzard because they were losing market share, I am quite confident that Toro was not gaining any market share with this "thing".


Thank You to you and AJ for posting an informative response to my question...I was shocked and stunned it did not involve Monkey pictures


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> For what??????????????


You know for what....


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Thank You to you and AJ for posting an informative response to my question...I was shocked and stunned it did not involve Monkey pictures


Somehow that powers that be have blocked any pic with a primate in it.



Defcon 5 said:


> You know for what....


Do I???

I saw and ran the SSV before you even knew it was a prototype.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Somehow that powers that be have blocked any pic with a primate in it.
> 
> Do I???
> 
> I saw and ran the SSV before you even knew it was a prototype.


Lies....All lies....


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> Thank You to you and AJ for posting an informative response to my question...I was shocked and stunned it did not involve Monkey pictures


Whoa.... May need to change out "serious business for serious people" now...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Lies....All lies....


We'll see what swag shows up when I give my SSV review.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> We'll see what swag shows up when I give my SSV review.


K


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Ventrac is 8 MPH, plenty fast for sidewalks.
> 
> I hope to do a review on the SSV with our experiences so far. No snow banks built up, but it has been flat out awesome so far.


Isn't that about the same speed the grandstand goes tho?

I'm a big guy and slightly claustrophobic 
The snowrator felt cramped AF for me 
I haven't actually laid my hands on the ventrac version 
I literally haven't even seen one live in person

What's it cost?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

tpendagast said:


> What's it cost?


Seriously... Scroll up.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

tpendagast said:


> I'm a big guy and slightly claustrophobic
> The snowrator felt cramped AF for me


Claustrophobic out in the open air???


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

m_ice said:


> Claustrophobic out in the open air???


Machine platform is tight 
I said "slightly"
Tight spaces agitate me 
The snowrator platform was cramped and uncomfortable 
I felt like T. rex trying to operate the controls


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Neck ties, turtle necks and snow machine/motor cycle helmets also can trigger claustrophobia.
It’s an irrational reaction 
You can’t “logic” it, it’s already irrational.

I mentioned I have a slight case of claustrophobia (I manage to wear my share of neck ties and helmets) because I have a tendency to exaggerate tight spaces as a result of my perception of them.

So what I think might be tight 
May be fine for someone else


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Since I was baking another cheesecake last night for Thanksgiving, I decided to do some algebra to illustrate why having a plow too far in front is a bad idea...…

THIS MAY MAKE YOUR HEAD HURT IF YOU AREN"T SUFFICIENTLY CAFFEINATED

First, a free body diagram...








This depicts a skid steer type machine with a plow on the front. There is a distance of H between the center of the front wheels and the pivot, and a distance P between the pivot and the moldboard. The plow is angled to the right by theta degrees. The wheelbase is WB, and the track is T

X is forward, Y is to the left. Forces are positive in the +x and +y directions, with the exception of the plow drag (Fpx) that I have designated positive to the back. Moments are conventional right hand rule, so positive is ccw as the z axis is out of the page.

Before the algebra starts, the problem can be seen. Basically the bigger H and P are, the more torque they apply around the center of the machine. In addition to providing driving traction, the tires must react this torque, in this case by adding to the traction of the left side tires and subtracting from the right side. As the forces get higher, eventually the left side will spin out.

It is interesting (to me at least) to note that the conventional pivot system helps this situation, as it puts the drag force of the plow to the right of the centerline by a distance "O" (equal to P sin(theta)). This provides a cw torque which offsets some of the sideforce providing torque ccw. Thus, while some linkages for plows (or brooms) strive to keep the center of the plow in the center of the vehicle, this is not beneficial from a traction point of view.

To the algebra...…









Yes, the crossed out lines represent algebra mistakes.
​The problem here is that there are eight unknowns (tire forces) and only three equations. This is because a two tire system (think zero turn) with a plow out in front provides enough constraint. In the real world, tires develop sideforce by deflection of the sidewall, so there would be other equations that would have to be used to determine the exact distribution of forces.

However, that is beyond the scope of this post and is left as an exercise to the reader.

If we make the simplifying assumption that the two tires on the left have the same driving force, and the two tires on the right also have the same driving force (but different from the left), and all the tires have the same sideforce, the equations become like a zero-turn type setup.....










The result is equation IV. If the plow is straight, then the first and last terms vanish (sin(theta) = 0, Fpy = 0), and we are left with Ftl (left hand tire force) = 1/2 Fpx(plow drag), which is what we expect.

However, as the plow is angled, the first and third terms grow, and in addition to overcoming the drag, the first term and the third term grow, with the first term being multiplied by P (distance between the pivot and moldboard) and the third term being multiplied by (H+1/2WB), the distance between the pivot and the center of the wheelbase (location of the axle in a zero-turn type machine). Adding track width helps reduce the additional traction required because of the larger moment provided. There is obviously a limit, as the tires shouldn't stick out beyond the plow.

If we further assume that the plow is angled at 30 degrees and that the plow force is perpendicular to the moldboard (basically no friction between the plow and surface or between the snow and the plow), the first term, which is dependent on P (the distance between the pivot and moldboard) vanishes, as shown in equation V. Thus, to minimize spinout, the term (H+1/2WB)/2T should be minimized, which implies as small a distance as possible between the plow hinge and the center of tractive effort, along with as wide a track as possible.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Aerospace Eng said:


> However, that is beyond the scope of this post and is left as an exercise to the reader.


I for one, will get right on that.

I'm not going to claim to understand the actual equations, but I do understand the problem.

Thanks...and holy crap.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I for one, will get right on that.
> 
> I'm not going to claim to understand the actual equations, but I do understand the problem.
> 
> Thanks...and holy crap.


Working out the math will keep your mind occupied in the post Thanksgiving food coma.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Since I was baking another cheesecake last night for Thanksgiving, I decided to do some algebra to illustrate why having a plow too far in front is a bad idea...…
> 
> THIS MAY MAKE YOUR HEAD HURT IF YOU AREN"T SUFFICIENTLY CAFFEINATED
> 
> ...


First of all, I find it funny that you spent this much time trying educate a bunch of plow monkeys. Myself included.

Second, skipping the second 2/3's, the first pic and explanation does make sense to me.

Basically the wheel weight kit on the MultiForce is trying to overcome the force that is removing the traction from the left wheel which will only help marginally because the distance between plow and drive wheels is just too great.

The design is flawed for anything other than short pushes.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Since I was baking another cheesecake last night for Thanksgiving, I decided to do some algebra to illustrate why having a plow too far in front is a bad idea...…
> 
> THIS MAY MAKE YOUR HEAD HURT IF YOU AREN"T SUFFICIENTLY CAFFEINATED
> 
> ...


:clapping:


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> First of all, I find it funny that you spent this much time trying educate a bunch of plow monkeys. Myself included.


I'm waiting for the movie version


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Mark Oomkes said:


> First of all, I find it funny that you spent this much time trying educate a bunch of plow monkeys. Myself included.
> 
> Second, skipping the second 2/3's, the first pic and explanation does make sense to me.
> 
> ...


I did it for myself as an exercise (Yes, I am weird), but I thought it might be entertaining for some, and maybe some of the manufacturers might actually see it and start to think a bit.

Basically, if you try to windrow, you will get into trouble over any length that fills the blade. A V-plow would be better for sidewalks. A plow that isn't angled and just spills off the side won't cause the uneven traction problem, but if it isn't powder it will be too heavy to push like that anyway.

From a traction point of view, having the track as wide as possible (so that the plow barely covers the outside wheel when angled), and keeping "H" as small as possible would help. But now you would have to drive it with your outside wheels right on the edge of the walk, which isn't conducive to production.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Aerospace Eng said:


> maybe some of the manufacturers might actually see it and start to think a bit.


That's funnier than showing algebra to plow monkeys.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That's funnier than showing algebra to plow monkeys.


And he got full credit for showing his work


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> And he got full credit for showing his work


Even the mistakes!


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Ok
But

If putting a plow farther out in front of you is bad,why does the KAGE system work so good?
It’s deliberately has a longer distance from chassis to blade that, according to them, is beneficial (easier to plow around curbs and corners, better if reach when stacking past a curb) ... especially for a skid steer which is more limited on reach than wheel loafers or ag tractors?


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

tpendagast said:


> Ok
> But
> 
> If putting a plow farther out in front of you is bad,why does the KAGE system work so good?
> It's deliberately has a longer distance from chassis to blade that, according to them, is beneficial (easier to plow around curbs and corners, better if reach when stacking past a curb) ... especially for a skid steer which is more limited on reach than wheel loafers or ag tractors?


I didn't say it was bad overall, I said that it places an increased traction load on the side away from where you are angled. If you have enough traction, whether due to weight, snow tires, chains, etc., it's not a problem. However, when windrowing, if you are placing it further from the skidsteer, you will lose traction sooner than a similar plow placed closer to the skidsteer.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Cuz they were in for baths... Snowrator and Zspray seem to be about identical from pivot and front axles/front casters on center...


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

The front casters on whichever one it is don't count. They will provide no side force or tractive effort, and basically just hold the front end off the ground. Thus, for that machine, the distance between the drive axles and the pivot is what matters.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Yeah I knew that...lol. The 2wd Zspray rear axle is further back compared to the 4wd Snowrator but we're obviously apples and oranges here... I was curious for Mark and the Grandstand positioning and his Max...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Cuz they were in for baths... Snowrator and Zspray seem to be about identical from pivot and front axles/front casters on center...
> 
> View attachment 186509
> 
> ...


Other thing is SnowRator is 4WD.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Other thing is SnowRator is 4WD.


You're four minutes late...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You're four minutes late...


SKWJA...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> SKWJA...


Nothing wrong with being a Jovial American...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Nothing wrong with being a Jovial American...


Eggzactly...


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Aerospace Eng said:


> I didn't say it was bad overall, I said that it places an increased traction load on the side away from where you are angled. If you have enough traction, whether due to weight, snow tires, chains, etc., it's not a problem. However, when windrowing, if you are placing it further from the skidsteer, you will lose traction sooner than a similar plow placed closer to the skidsteer.


Ah ok 
So with a KAGE the machine just had more weight to fulcrum ratio to load being pushed than say a toro grandstand does


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Got my update today, kit 1+5 are shipping tomorrow and I also am getting 2+3 but supposedly 2-3 weeks out...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Hmmm... Well we'll start install tomorrow I guess...


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Hmmm... Well we'll start install tomorrow I guess...
> 
> View attachment 186837


Can you get some video of the unit working at whatever accounts you're using it on?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Blade showed up today, some assembly required...


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

ok so brand new snowrator went on a trial run last night to do a little salting and a little brine spray on some long walks. Weather wasnt too bad, bit of a training exercise. Loaded it with brine and ice melter and off i went.
1. Salter toggle switch packed it in, second flip. Feels like the backing came loose, but on inspection, it is in a sealed unit with the reostat. No way to tighted. Great broken first time being used.
2. LED lights flicker when any other switch is on, really?
3. Voltage warning came on showing around 9.3 volts when running full throttle.
4. Guy at RICH that said yes update packages would go out to new buyers, wont even do the courtesy of a reply email after i have sent him my serial number etc 3 TIMES. 
5. Brine sprayer and hand wand worked pretty well. Want could have a coarser spray but will play with that.

Oh i am so fricken happy with this purchase. I know, i know, should have bought a ssv. Cant wait to see what and when anyone does anything to get me up and running before SPRING.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Hate to say it...but you got what you paid for...well, not really. But there’s a reason it was so much cheaper.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rick W said:


> ok so brand new snowrator went on a trial run last night to do a little salting and a little brine spray on some long walks. Weather wasnt too bad, bit of a training exercise. Loaded it with brine and ice melter and off i went.
> 1. Salter toggle switch packed it in, second flip. Feels like the backing came loose, but on inspection, it is in a sealed unit with the reostat. No way to tighted. Great broken first time being used.
> 2. LED lights flicker when any other switch is on, really?
> 3. Voltage warning came on showing around 9.3 volts when running full throttle.
> ...


Rumour on the playground is @Ajlawn1 has an extra spreader controller...or 3.

When did you buy yours? Just this year?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Good thing they didn't follow through on their broom model...


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Blade showed up today, some assembly required...
> 
> View attachment 187231


Got any video yet?? Have you even used it yet this season? I would like to see the type of account where this thing is better than other options and why.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Hate to say it...but you got what you paid for...well, not really. But there's a reason it was so much cheaper.


In his defense, at $10k he should be getting something that functions at 100% for at least the first season.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WIPensFan said:


> Got any video yet?? Have you even used it yet this season? I would like to see the type of account where this thing is better than other options and why.


As opposed to what? Tractor? Zplow?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

WIPensFan said:


> Got any video yet?? Have you even used it yet this season? I would like to see the type of account where this thing is better than other options and why.


There's several on the TubeYou


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> In his defense, at $10k he should be getting something that functions at 100% for at least the first season.


Yes, I agree. But it's not like the issues with these things haven't been fairly well published. It would be like any of us that are frequent on here buying an EXT and then wondering why it fell apart the first season.

It's puzzling that LT Rich did/does such a good job on Z Spray units but the Snowrator is vastly underwhelming.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Toro/Boss/Exmark must be too bizzie issuing cease and desist orders to Steel Green and shipping duplicate/triplicate update kits to current owners to fix what's wrong.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

WIPensFan said:


> I'm not the one with a $10k sidewalk machine that doesn't work...





WIPensFan said:


> Sounds like Fluid Filming the S..t out of those units when you get them would be pertinent. Can't believe what you guys are over paying for those POS's.





WIPensFan said:


> Got any video yet?? Have you even used it yet this season? I would like to see the type of account where this thing is better than other options and why.


It's a POS remember... So why would I waste my valuable shenanigans time on you...?


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

For the haters, forget you
For those that arent being jerks... It was less than half the cost of a ventrac and LT Rich told me straight up prior to my purchase my model had some of the improvemnts and they would send me the upgrades free.... and the selling dealer said he would ensure i got the parts. SO here i am 2 months later and f all. So just posting this to help others who thought LT RITCH would do what they said. I will go to boss direct. I have spent a fortune on BOSS stuff and they have always been 100% when i have gone to them direct with anything. Been a great company so figured i would have no issue with them doing the right thing. Will see what they say
My job for this machine cannot support a $30K ventrac. For the $15K a snowrator costs.... even if not 100% it should be capable for working for 10 minutes. am i pissed off.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

yup.... this website was just packed with their ads on all sides for the last year, i knew it was "settling" and not my dream machine like the other purchase i made this season that i went all out on but figured it would certainly do the job and with upgrades and support of a good firm...woudl be just fine..... but first use it packs it in...and Mr Shane Bell (marketing and sales manager) at z spray talks a big talk and once i write a cheque can not even bother to reply to 3 emails. Really not cool.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

When did you buy it?


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Mark Oomkes said:


> When did you buy it?


Late Oct 2018.

Seems the posts now are all getting deleted and edited.

I know we are all supposed to play nice here...but when it was a flagship advertiser here and they are selling this kind of stuff they should have some sort of obligation to deliver what they promise. Grrrrrrr


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LT Rich was not in existence in Oct 2018. You bought it from Toro/Boss.

Is Shane still employed there?


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

rick W said:


> Late Oct 2018.
> 
> Seems the posts now are all getting deleted and edited.
> 
> I know we are all supposed to play nice here...but when it was a flagship advertiser here and they are selling this kind of stuff they should have some sort of obligation to deliver what they promise. Grrrrrrr


And you can post in a decent, respectable manner and NOT use profanity


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Yes...last reply from him was Nov 20 He was going to get right back to me about the upgrades after i sent him my serial number...and his email and tag was all still showing LT rich at 920 hendricks dr lebanon in. 
So....if nov 20 he was there promising something and showing LT Rich as his employer and position as Sales/Marketing Manager...what would a reasonable person assume??


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Tells me he hadn't changed his email signature. 

We can't buy parts from "LT Rich" anymore, haven't been able to since August or September. 

I'm not saying you don't have a legitimate complaint. And LT Rich did design and build it. But it's just as likely that he doesn't have the authority to do any of that anymore. Although he should have let you know.

But you bought it from Toro/Boss. You didn't buy it from LT Rich. At this point, thinking you can depend on them anymore than you could LT Rich is kind of dreaming.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

That is my whole point in posting on here. I am a big boy and will take my lumps, not my first rodeo. Unpleasant for sure.

BUT...if i can post on here and some others will keep from buying a SNOWRATOR and believing the empty promises...until there is some follow up from someone that can move it forward..not cool. I have emailed boss directly They are usually good. If i dont get anywhere, will pick up the phone and get on with it. Just really disappointed as its fun buying new stuff and this was a real downer. On another note....my kubota with cab is the bomb.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Have you heard the expression of peeing in the wind... That's what you're doing with LT Rich. Everything is Boss/Toro now as Mark said... All parts are ordered now through Toro for the Zsprays even. That is why I dealt with Steel Green instead as I cannot stand my Exmark/Toro dealer. When I dealt with getting my stuff the LT guys don't even know the Boss people... And I am sure they are in the same situation that everything is a mess and no one knows what's what...

I will say my Snowrator was flawless last year other then the blade bouncing up into the spinner... Now this year it has all been corrosion related... I have the same problems with my Zsprays we use in the winter. To anyone using these type of machines wash and wash and wash again! And spray em down out of season... Especially carb and governor linkage!

I think everything will get corrected its just been and mess all at once and right before Winter this changeover didn't help either...

By the way what is cheque…?


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

It is what i use to buy $15K snowrators and $35K kubotas in the great white north eh!
We spell things right up here. Got to go grab a labatts and watch some hockey. See ya eh. 

I am sure all will get sorted out too. Just better be before big snow hits.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Yeah 15k is a little high, $9600 here...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'm wondering if that rumour about not being able to buy a "Toro" Snowrator until 2020 is true.

And if the Snowrator is going to be available from Boss and the ZSpray from Exmark...maybe Toro doesn't know what's going on yet.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rick W said:


> That is my whole point in posting on here. I am a big boy and will take my lumps, not my first rodeo. Unpleasant for sure.
> 
> BUT...if i can post on here and some others will keep from buying a SNOWRATOR and believing the empty promises...until there is some follow up from someone that can move it forward..not cool. I have emailed boss directly They are usually good. If i dont get anywhere, will pick up the phone and get on with it. Just really disappointed as its fun buying new stuff and this was a real downer. On another note....my kubota with cab is the bomb.


Check around, find my thread about my Meyer MDV spreader. I feel your pain, trust me. Only thing I didn't have was forewarning that it was going to be a bigger POS than a Ford 6.0.

I agree with Aj on the electrical connections on the ZSprays, they suck. As does the linkages and everything else. Fertilizer is a salt, maybe not as bad as salt itself because it isn't usually being applied in the rain (snow) but still, there was plenty of room for improvement without increasing the cost much on ZSprays.

Almost seems like Tom developed the Snowrator as a selling point for his company.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

With American owned companies having trouble with American buyers you can bet Rick that your problem won't be top priority for them. Canadians always come last for these guys. The $15k is right on with the exchange. Leaving about $300 for transport


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> As opposed to what? Tractor? Zplow?


I just wanna see what type of account this is for. What situation do these outshine other equipment? I've seen videos of them in action but it's hard to see the property it's on and why they decided to go with this particular piece of equipment. For instance...I used to do a condo complex with sidewalks all over the courtyards that were located above the underground parking garage. They would not allow any Bobcat or certain weight pieces on those walks. Now, the walks weren't wide enough for that anyway but maybe something like this could have worked. Probably not because the snow built up on the sides of the walks to where a plow could not function properly a month into the season. But the salting could have been faster. Anytime I had walks big enough for my skidsteers that's what I used. 6' when I had my 743B with a snow bucket. I used to do a lot of walks with that. Make sense?


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> It's a POS remember... So why would I waste my valuable shenanigans time on you...?


Let's see why you bought this. You say it's not a waste of money, so show me.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Are you doing a lot of summer work with it as well? Is that what justifies it?


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Talk to me Goose...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

WIPensFan said:


> Talk to me Goose...


Thumbs Up


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

BUFF said:


> Thumbs Up


 Wrong Goose.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)




----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

WIPensFan said:


> Let's see why you bought this. You say it's not a waste of money, so show me.





WIPensFan said:


> Are you doing a lot of summer work with it as well? Is that what justifies it?





WIPensFan said:


> Talk to me Goose...


----------



## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Just for those with these machines. Reached out to BOSS and they as normal, where quick to reply and provide the following..

https://info.bossplow.com/snowrator-customer-care

Get your machine serial number and your contact to them, they will figure out what upgrades there are and get them shipped out asap. Further, reading the info on that link, sounds like Boss will be improving and trying to grow the market. Anyway feels like progress.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

rick W said:


> Just for those with these machines. Reached out to BOSS and they as normal, where quick to reply and provide the following..
> 
> https://info.bossplow.com/snowrator-customer-care
> 
> Get your machine serial number and your contact to them, they will figure out what upgrades there are and get them shipped out asap. Further, reading the info on that link, sounds like Boss will be improving and trying to grow the market. Anyway feels like progress.


I assumed you had already done that or were waiting for the uprgrades... Getting your serial number to them was step one. I posted the different upgrades kits already a few pages back...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rick W said:


> Just for those with these machines. Reached out to BOSS and they as normal, where quick to reply and provide the following..
> 
> https://info.bossplow.com/snowrator-customer-care
> 
> Get your machine serial number and your contact to them, they will figure out what upgrades there are and get them shipped out asap. Further, reading the info on that link, sounds like Boss will be improving and trying to grow the market. Anyway feels like progress.


Wonder if those EXT owners felt progress was occurring when Boss acknowledged it was a POS.

Or if "progress" includes sending an owner 3 spare salt controllers...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Wonder if those EXT owners felt progress was occurring when Boss acknowledged it was a POS.
> 
> Or if "progress" includes sending an owner 3 spare salt controllers...


I was going to post similar thoughts. Beat me to it.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Update.....
Boss has got back to me and advised that yes my new machine qualifies for several of the free upgrade kits and they should have been provided and installed at the dealer before i took delivery.
Site One admits they didnt get them installed but they will try and courier me a new controller out today and the heavier stuff will be shipped due to weight and expect early next week. Further they will pay us a 1/2hr at shop rate time for each upgrade kit. Not perfect but will say that seems pretty fair way to at least address and fix issues and move forward. 
So, overall much happier. Suns out, no snow in forecast and its friday so all good.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

rick W said:


> Update.....
> Boss has got back to me and advised that yes my new machine qualifies for several of the free upgrade kits and they should have been provided and installed at the dealer before i took delivery.
> Site One admits they didnt get them installed but they will try and courier me a new controller out today and the heavier stuff will be shipped due to weight and expect early next week. Further they will pay us a 1/2hr at shop rate time for each upgrade kit. Not perfect but will say that seems pretty fair way to at least address and fix issues and move forward.
> So, overall much happier. Suns out, no snow in forecast and its friday so all good.


Site one is a Toro dealer?


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

I am in Canada and BOSS not toro is handling this, and i bought through site one and they are sending me the parts....sooooo

Read this....

https://info.bossplow.com/snowrator-customer-care


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

According to that link, Boss will be handling the Snowraper.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

rick W said:


> Further they will pay us a 1/2hr at shop rate time for each upgrade kit.


Yeah right...


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Follow up for those interested or those owning or thinking of buying.... .... 

New electronic salter controller was overnight couriered last week. The rest of the free upgrades where all delivered on a skid today. As there was a lot of boxes and it weighs several hundred pounds. A lot of HD front end replacement parts (look like the whole assembly), some wire harnesses, and all the brackets for the plow, and whole new HD blade. It is a lot of parts and they certainly look way beefier. Obviously BOSS made as they have the look of the rest of the BOSS black stuff we have around for plows etc. Will see. Anyway BOSS as always did what they said they would do and these upgrades cost someone a lot of money so... guess that is all you can ask for .

They said they would support legacy machines and upgrade the machine as they found issues and engineered fixes....they did. So big thumbs up. Will hope it snows someday to see how she does. Also i did hear back from LT Rich rep and he apologized for poor communications and I let him know BOSS has taken over so all is right with the world again.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Holy crap have you read any of this thread...

You would have seen these upgrades with pics a month ago...

Be sure to post a picture of the Boss check for labor too please...


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Holy crap have you read any of this thread...
> 
> You would have seen these upgrades with pics a month ago...
> 
> Be sure to post a picture of the Boss check for labor too please...


So exactly why would you bother posting these comments? Move on...you just trying to get your post count up? A few of you post so many useless stupid posts its really annoying to anyone of the hundreds of readers on here that dont have the time and interest in scrolling through thousands of grade 2 type banter. Pretty annoying.

If i had seen the details how to get upgrades or if boss or lt rich or site one had made this easy to track down and get them to my shop.....i would not have posted the details. A few of you board junkies kept chirping about TORO etc. It is BOSS now and i provided a link and actually got parts and if that is not helpful to others...move along.

Maybe you should go wash your truck or do something productive. 
As for the cheque.... they send me $1000 bucks or more worth of parts in days so really not too worried about them stiffing me for a couple hundred. Will see


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

rick W said:


> So exactly why would you bother posting these comments? Move on...you just trying to get your post count up? A few of you post so many useless stupid posts its really annoying to anyone of the hundreds of readers on here that dont have the time and interest in scrolling through thousands of grade 2 type banter. Pretty annoying.
> 
> If i had seen the details how to get upgrades or if boss or lt rich or site one had made this easy to track down and get them to my shop.....i would not have posted the details. A few of you board junkies kept chirping about TORO etc. It is BOSS now and i provided a link and actually got parts and if that is not helpful to others...move along.
> 
> ...


Are you serious? You can't be that ignorant... I am the one trying to help and tell you that parts are coming and they are fixing the issues because you had your little temper tantrum... We told you that you need to contact Boss but once again you didn't read...

And if you would read the thread you would see it was already stated with pictures the kits and* you* would not have had to add your grade 1 banter to what is already there...

This below is all I care about and called you on it as BS, but you do so much with Boss and have so much skin in the game its obvious you know it all...



rick W said:


> Update.....
> Further they will pay us a 1/2hr at shop rate time for each upgrade kit. Not perfect but will say that seems pretty fair way to at least address and fix issues and move forward.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

FWIW...controller on our SSV took a crap this morning. 

Supposed to have a replacement in the morning. 

Bypassed it for now.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> FWIW...controller on our SSV took a crap this morning.
> 
> Supposed to have a replacement in the morning.
> 
> Bypassed it for now.


What!!!! What a POS I'd sell it... I have extras if it don't show...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> What!!!! What a POS I'd sell it... I have extras if it don't show...


I agree...


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Video???


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WIPensFan said:


> Video???


TubeYou.com


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

WIPensFan said:


> Video???


Killed the radio star...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

BUFF said:


> Killed the radio star...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

99% of the people on here don’t know who that is or the significance they played in cable tv history


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Defcon 5 said:


> 99% of the people on here don't know who that is or the significance they played in cable tv history


Or that "Video Killed the Radio Star" was the first song played on MTV.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Or that "Video Killed the Radio Star" was the first song played on MTV.


Yes sir....Buggles.....All MTV Did was play videos...Now they don't play any...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> Yes sir....Buggles.....All MTV Did was play videos...Now they don't play any...


You still watch MTV...?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Or that "Video Killed the Radio Star" was the first song played on MTV.


We had a party to watch that on MTV's opener and spend many hours in the years to follow watching it and culling brain cells.....
The influence MTV had on the generations that watched it was of biblical and epic proportion. It influenced "fashion" (all the Pat Benatar clones in Fast Times at Ridgemont), hair style ( Flock of Seagulls hair doo), dance moves ( funky chicken to moon walking like Michael Jaskson), etc....


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> TubeYou.com





Ajlawn1 said:


> You still watch MTV...?


No I wanna see AJ post a video of his machine working. Snow coming this weekend, get out your phone and let's see what you're doing with this machine. Will take a minute or two. You can do it!!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WIPensFan said:


> No I wanna see AJ post a video of his machine working. Snow coming this weekend, get out your phone and let's see what you're doing with this machine. Will take a minute or two. You can do it!!


Didn't you say you got out of plowing?

Why don't you drive down to South Bent and help Aj out during Snowmaggedon 2019.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Didn't you say you got out of plowing?
> 
> Why don't you drive down to South Bent and help Aj out during Snowmaggedon 2019.


If I was him I would be considering mounting a plow on the Escalade....Gonna need all the help he can get...To bad I'm Bizzie


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> If I was him I would be considering mounting a plow on the Escalade....Gonna need all the help he can get...To bad I'm Bizzie


That stinks I had a truck seat already for you too...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

That’s nice


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Didn't you say you got out of plowing?
> 
> Why don't you drive down to South Bent and help Aj out during Snowmaggedon 2019.


I did say that. You should see the smile on my face. I'd help him if I could, sounds like he needs a wing man. 
Talk to me Goose...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

WIPensFan said:


> I did say that. You should see the smile on my face. I'd help him if I could, sounds like he needs a wing man.
> Talk to me Goose...


Here you go........... again....Thumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Muffler cracked at the flanges on the SSV this morning. 97 hours.

Guess we'll see if the welds hold tonight.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Muffler cracked at the flanges on the SSV this morning. 97 hours.
> 
> Guess we'll see if the welds hold tonight.


Told you to sell that POS four days ago...


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Sounds like a job for the 110v wire feed.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Muffler cracked at the flanges on the SSV this morning. 97 hours.
> 
> Guess we'll see if the welds hold tonight.


Does it have a Vortec in it?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

m_ice said:


> Does it have a Vortec in it?


Yeah a polar vortec...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> Sounds like a job for the 110v wire feed.


Horror Freight 110v???


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Told you to sell that POS four days ago...


If you say so...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Quick update on the SSV...definitely hasn't been problem free...except for the past 5 events. 

Found paint chips in the fuel tank. Cleaned the tank, changed the filter, etc and it died the next morning. Changed the filter and cut the wire to the stupid POS fuel shutoff solenoid and other than the operator running it oot of gas, hasn't quit. The filter was not full when he swapped it and it filled right up afterwards. I've never heard or seen a bad fuel filter...one of those clear ones. Not sure if that was the problem or if it was the POS fuel shutoff solenoid. 

Overall still very happy with the machine and would not hesitate to buy another. Or two.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BTW...still needs heated handles....ahem.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> BTW...still needs heated handles....ahem.


Sounds like a needed trip to Eric's customization shop...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Sounds like a needed trip to Eric's customization shop...
> 
> View attachment 190189


https://www.denniskirk.com/snowmobile/heated-grips-and-thumb-warmers

Just need to add grips


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> BTW...still needs heated handles....ahem.


I tried to tell them that when it was a concept on paper and they didn't see the need.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Sounds like a needed trip to Eric's customization shop...
> 
> View attachment 190189


With all 3 valves open are you spraying drive lanes with that?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I tried to tell them that when it was a concept on paper and they didn't see the need.


I've mentioned it half a dozen times as well. I also axed about the enclosure.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Sounds like a needed trip to Eric's customization shop...
> 
> View attachment 190189


Is Eric's shop in Kalamazoo??


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I've mentioned it half a dozen times as well. I also axed about the enclosure.


Enclosure????....If you want an enclosure go buy this Ventrac..Did you just realize that It gets cold in the winter??


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> View attachment 190201
> 
> 
> Enclosure????....If you want an enclosure go buy this Ventrac..Did you just realize that It gets cold in the winter??


Yes


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> Is Eric's shop in Kalamazoo??


Somewhere between there and almighty Grand Rapids...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Oh look @Ajlawn1 now your DitchWitch is also owned by Toro...

https://www.greenindustrypros.com/b...77J9121356G2R&ajs_trait_oebid=3459D7928134B6M


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Oh look @Ajlawn1 now your DitchWitch is also owned by Toro...
> 
> https://www.greenindustrypros.com/business/industry-news/news/21047801/the-toro-company-to-acquire-charles-machine-works?utm_source=GIP+The+PRO+Report&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=HCL190213002&o_eid=7677J9121356G2R&rdx.ident[pull]=omeda|7677J9121356G2R&om_id=60489&ajs_uid=7677J9121356G2R&oly_enc_id=7677J9121356G2R&ajs_trait_oebid=3459D7928134B6M


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Oh look @Ajlawn1 now your DitchWitch is also owned by Toro...
> 
> https://www.greenindustrypros.com/business/industry-news/news/21047801/the-toro-company-to-acquire-charles-machine-works?utm_source=GIP+The+PRO+Report&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=HCL190213002&o_eid=7677J9121356G2R&rdx.ident[pull]=omeda|7677J9121356G2R&om_id=60489&ajs_uid=7677J9121356G2R&oly_enc_id=7677J9121356G2R&ajs_trait_oebid=3459D7928134B6M


This is starting to be like a bad dream....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> This is starting to be like a bad dream....


I was hoping to start off your day on the wrong foot.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ventrac has replaced the fuel tank on our SSV. When the dealer flushed it there was a lot of junk floating around in it. But we still had some issues after it was flushed. If we blew the line out it would run fine, so they OK'ed a new tank. 

Pretreating with it today, so we'll see what happens. Still wouldn't be afraid to buy another one.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Ventrac has replaced the fuel tank on our SSV. When the dealer flushed it there was a lot of junk floating around in it. But we still had some issues after it was flushed. If we blew the line out it would run fine, so they OK'ed a new tank.
> 
> Pretreating with it today, so we'll see what happens. Still wouldn't be afraid to buy another one.


I'm starting to get scared of buying anything anymore... Might be time for a fire sale and start over... I mean fire sale only...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I'm starting to get scared of buying anything anymore... Might be time for a fire sale and start over... I mean fire sale only...


We are looking for Union Monkey mixer drivers..Are you able to obtain a CDL A with the air brake endorsement??


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> We are looking for Union Monkey mixer drivers..Are you able to obtain a CDL A with the air brake endorsement??


Already have one...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Already have one...


I don't recall directing the question to you....Mind your own bobber


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I don't recall directing the question to you....Mind your own bobber


That's nice...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> We are looking for Union Monkey mixer drivers..Are you able to obtain a CDL A with the air brake endorsement??


Class A for mixer?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Class A for mixer?


We want our monkeys to be more than a one trick monkey...


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Peter Tork, one of the original Monkeys just passed today.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Luther said:


> Peter Tork, one of the original Monkeys just passed today.


Thanks for the update Plowlord


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Thanks for the update Plowlord


PlowLord or MonkeeLord?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> PlowLord or MonkeeLord?


It's enough of your "Antics"


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

Defcon 5 said:


> It's enough of your "Antics"


Ummm, agree and not just his :waving::laugh:


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Luther said:


> Peter Tork, one of the original Monkeys just passed today.


That was a pretty korney show for 60's standards but still entertaining.....


----------

