# how much to charge per storm



## Grounduptree

I was wondering what to charge per storm for this lot and how much for salt application.
0-3 
3-6
6-9
9-12
12-15
over 15 per additional inch.

Was thinking of using a wl50 with a 12ft pusher and a c4500 with 10ft plow. Its all pretty open with couple islands and the back of the stores.
http://www.findlotsize.com?e=41.808458,-72.532543:0:220 hale st manchester ct:measure:0


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## 1olddogtwo

What did Bob use last year?


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## Grounduptree

they were using a 744 john deere with a 20ft and a truck and ppl were not happy with the plowing


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## Defcon 5

....................


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## Whiffyspark

I'm not a fan of 4500 for parking lots. 1 loader two late frame skids is what id use


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## SnowGuy73

defcon 5;1819672 said:


> ....................


x2................


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## SnowFakers

I actually know where this is! Haha Not sure what to price it but have fun


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## Grounduptree

my shop is not even 30sec away from this lot. I think a loader and a dump truck should do the trick also will have another trucks in the area. The lot is pretty straight forward. Thinking around 18000 seasonal. What you guys think.


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## Buswell Forest

What is a WL50? A quick google search gave me a little tonka toy one would use to load bark mulch into trailers being pulled by subaru outbacks.
IMO, a 12' pusher there will feel like it's the size of a snow shovel. I'd want more for fear I would be there for 6 hours on a 4" storm.


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## Buswell Forest

Also, unless you only get 6 plowable events a year, 18k is only the first of 4 equal payments I would say.
Does 18k include salting and entrance shoveling?


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## Grounduptree

the wacker wl50 running a 12ft and a c4500 4x4 with a 10ft plow and yes the entrance and salt. also if your looking at the photo the building on the right with the parking in the back is not part of the bid.


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## A.K Landscaping

Does this bid include the what looks like a restaurant in the bottom left corner of the parking lot. If so the total amount of parking lot is 7+/- acres, which seems a too much for just that little compact loader and a truck, and $18,000 might not be enough. Whiffyspark is right. A loader and a skid steer would be right.


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## Grounduptree

Yes it is. I know a guy that use to do it couple years ago and he had backhoe with a 12ft and a truck and he said it was no problem.


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## Whiffyspark

Put your 4500 somewhere else. They suck for parking lots


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## Longae29

Buswell Forest;1819790 said:


> What is a WL50? A quick google search gave me a little tonka toy one would use to load bark mulch into trailers being pulled by subaru outbacks.
> IMO, a 12' pusher there will feel like it's the size of a snow shovel. I'd want more for fear I would be there for 6 hours on a 4" storm.


What is your experience with compact wheel loaders? I notice you are quick to recommend everyone use only Cat 980 size wheel loaders in place of something smaller, extremely nimble, and effective such as a WL50. We use several wheel loaders that you consider only valuable for loading scoops of mulch every storm, and they are extremely efficient.


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## Grounduptree

I love the compact wheel loaders like the wl50 is the same as running a 310john deere just way more efficient in my opinion. To me running a 744 with a 20ft pusher is to much for that lot. Thats why i like using the smaller ones where i can do everything with it and not just plow a lot. I also use a wl30 for sidewalks as well. I will be doing other lots and i will be having 2to 3 of the wl50s working with 12ft pushers.


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## Whiffyspark

Longae29;1819899 said:


> What is your experience with compact wheel loaders? I notice you are quick to recommend everyone use only Cat 980 size wheel loaders in place of something smaller, extremely nimble, and effective such as a WL50. We use several wheel loaders that you consider only valuable for loading scoops of mulch every storm, and they are extremely efficient.


Yep.

No reason for full size loaders.

He thinks every site needs one.


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## Buswell Forest

I think a 644 Deere with a 16' pusher makes more sense on a 7 acre lot. Time is money.
The WL50 along with the big machine, and the 4500 chevy would make short work of it.
I understand cash and credit are hard to come by, but you can buy a 3-4 yard machine cheaper than you can a compact loader. There's simply more of them out there.
Never did I say a 980 cat was needed. 
It's only an opinion.


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## Buswell Forest

FTR, I have plowed with machines from garden tractors all the way to spanky new 966Fseries II Caterpillars. Everything has it's place.


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## Buswell Forest

This is what I am talking about. With a 14 or 16 foot box, cheap and powerful.
http://nh.craigslist.org/hvo/4588692630.html
http://nh.craigslist.org/hvo/4554994260.html
http://nh.craigslist.org/hvo/4554184770.html


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## Grounduptree

I will be leaseing the wl50s this year cause they are giving me a very good price for the season 7000 with the 12ft pusher. Next year i will buy a bigger loader cash is tight but if i have one of my 4500 forsale so if i was gonna sell it then i could go that route and buy something for 20000. Like it sucks that if i buy a big loader then i will only be able to use it for snow because i dont have the use for it unlike the compact loaders or a backhoe.


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## Defcon 5

Grounduptree;1819928 said:


> I will be leaseing the wl50s this year cause they are giving me a very good price for the season 7000 with the 12ft pusher. Next year i will buy a bigger loader cash is tight but if i have one of my 4500 forsale so if i was gonna sell it then i could go that route and buy something for 20000. Like it sucks that if i buy a big loader then i will only be able to use it for snow because i dont have the use for it unlike the compact loaders or a backhoe.


$7000 with unlimited hours??.....How many months???


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## Grounduptree

4 to 5months


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## Whiffyspark

Have fun finding someone to run that old junk buswel

Op there's nothing wrong with skid steers if you can use them all year. Large frame can push 12 ft boxes


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## Buswell Forest

Whiffyspark;1819952 said:


> Have fun finding someone to run that old junk buswel


LOL! The horror!


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## Defcon 5

Grounduptree;1819947 said:


> 4 to 5months


is it 4 months for $7000 or is it 5 months for $7000????........Is it UNLIMITED Hours????

These are Basic Questions.....You need to know your basic costs before you can even bid properly on sites like this.....

How much an hour is it gonna cost you to run this machine????


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## 1olddogtwo

Defcon 5;1819961 said:


> is it 4 months for $7000 or is it 5 months for $7000????........Is it UNLIMITED Hours????
> 
> These are Basic Questions.....You need to know your basic costs before you can even bid properly on sites like this.....
> 
> How much an hour is it gonna cost you to run this machine????


Minor details, as long as the contract is signed, who cares right?


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## Defcon 5

1olddogtwo;1819962 said:


> Minor details, as long as the contract is signed, who cares right?


:laughing:........


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## jrs.landscaping

Buswell Forest;1819924 said:


> FTR, I have plowed with machines from garden tractors all the way to spanky new 966Fseries II Caterpillars. Everything has it's place.


So what you're saying is the last new loader you ran was in the 90's?

Compact loaders and skids have come a long way since then.


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## Buswell Forest

jrs.landscaping;1819978 said:


> So what you're saying is the last new loader you ran was in the 90's?
> 
> Compact loaders and skids have come a long way since then.


Have the laws of physics changed since then? Taller, wider, heavier all mean the same now as then? Because if a compact loader can push and lift the same as a 90s 966F, I want one.


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## Whiffyspark

Does a 2014 150 have more power than a 90s 350?


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## Buswell Forest

Can the 150 carry a 9.5 v plow?


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## jrs.landscaping

Buswell Forest;1819999 said:


> Have the laws of physics changed since then? Taller, wider, heavier all mean the same now as then? Because if a compact loader can push and lift the same as a 90s 966F, I want one.


Completely missed the point as always.

I've asked this question before but don't recall if I got a response. Do you even own a loader? Or plow a lot larger than 1 acre?

Taller, wider, heavier, more power still spins on hard pack. I actually liked the newer Volvos for their drivetrain advancements when it comes to pushing snow.


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## Whiffyspark

Buswell Forest;1820020 said:


> Can the 150 carry a 9.5 v plow?


If you want to be a smart ***.. They can carry a wideout and a 8.5. There's a guy on here that has done it

But that's not the point. Which you missed like usual


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## jrs.landscaping

Buswell Forest;1819999 said:


> Have the laws of physics changed since then? Taller, wider, heavier all mean the same now as then? Because if a compact loader can push and lift the same as a 90s 966F, I want one.


So why are you running a tiny 648 Deere?

You should be running a 635 Tigercat, bigger, stronger, faster, like you always say, get the job done faster = more money right payup


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## John_DeereGreen

Buswell Forest;1819922 said:


> I think a 644 Deere with a 16' pusher makes more sense on a 7 acre lot. Time is money.
> opinion.


And what happens when you get a daytime event and the driving lanes have cars sitting out 3 feet on each side from where they should be? I wouldn't want to have someone in a machine with less than 6 inches on each side of room to spare.

In case you're wondering, it's 24 feet from line to line across the driving lanes. Rarely do cars park correctly in perfect weather, much less in a snow storm. So figure you lose 1 foot in normal weather from the end of the line to the back bumper of the car. Add a couple feet to that, and suddenly your 24 foot opening has dropped to 17 feet wide. Ever had a machine slide sideways 6 inches in bad weather? I have.

In your defense, I can see where you're coming from. A 16 foot pusher in a wide open 7 acre lot would be too small...if it were wide open all the time....


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## Grounduptree

wats a good skid steer that can push a 10ft pusher.


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## 1olddogtwo

Cat size 252 or larger.


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## 1olddogtwo

John_DeereGreen;1820050 said:


> And what happens when you get a daytime event and the driving lanes have cars sitting out 3 feet on each side from where they should be? I wouldn't want to have someone in a machine with less than 6 inches on each side of room to spare.
> 
> In case you're wondering, it's 24 feet from line to line across the driving lanes. Rarely do cars park correctly in perfect weather, much less in a snow storm. So figure you lose 1 foot in normal weather from the end of the line to the back bumper of the car. Add a couple feet to that, and suddenly your 24 foot opening has dropped to 17 feet wide. Ever had a machine slide sideways 6 inches in bad weather? I have.
> 
> In your defense, I can see where you're coming from. A 16 foot pusher in a wide open 7 acre lot would be too small...if it were wide open all the time....


Thought we only had people and lots like that here in Chicago.


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## jrs.landscaping

1olddogtwo;1820057 said:


> Thought we only had people and lots like that here in Chicago.


We have them up here too, we usually use an 11' power angle to do lanes and use the box for open areas, the smaller machine works well for the lanes because of how tight they become during storms.


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## 1olddogtwo

We used to do Walmart years ago, that was the worst. Had a 16HD and a 10LD on site. The skid couldn't make it down the lanes during the afternoon/evenings. I had retact my wings on the WO just to make it past the cars and carts!!!!! Hated them and still do.

After 10pm, just equipment plowed lots.

The worst lots to plow are the one ways..... Can't wait for the season to start!


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## Buswell Forest

Pretty sure I said the small loader, the 4500, and a bigger machine. My local shopping center has been plowed by a 4/5 yard loader and a 16' pusher for 20 years now. Boy is he gonna be embarrassed to know he can't do it with that machine. FYI, he drops the pusher and uses the bucket in the tight spots. Crazy, right?
You guys need to lighten up.


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## Whiffyspark

So you don't have any actual experience with loaders?


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## Defcon 5

Whiffyspark;1820167 said:


> So you don't have any actual experience with loaders?


I'm guessing......No.....But, what do I know...I'm just trying to get my post count up.......


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## 1olddogtwo

There is only so much we can learn on YouTube....... Free post.


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## Grounduptree

I think it can be done with backhoe a small loader and one or two plow trucks. I knew a guy that use to do it with a 310backhoe and a pickup truck.


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## Whiffyspark

John_DeereGreen;1820050 said:


> And what happens when you get a daytime event and the driving lanes have cars sitting out 3 feet on each side from where they should be? I wouldn't want to have someone in a machine with less than 6 inches on each side of room to spare.
> 
> In case you're wondering, it's 24 feet from line to line across the driving lanes. Rarely do cars park correctly in perfect weather, much less in a snow storm. So figure you lose 1 foot in normal weather from the end of the line to the back bumper of the car. Add a couple feet to that, and suddenly your 24 foot opening has dropped to 17 feet wide. Ever had a machine slide sideways 6 inches in bad weather? I have.
> 
> In your defense, I can see where you're coming from. A 16 foot pusher in a wide open 7 acre lot would be too small...if it were wide open all the time....


I still haven't got the dent fixed from a few years ago when I was pushing a parking lot and hit ice. Back swung out and hit pole lol


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## A.K Landscaping

Grounduptree;1820180 said:


> I think it can be done with backhoe a small loader and one or two plow trucks.


Is that the new plan? If so, your still gonna have to bump up the price a bit to accommodate for the backhoe. But, it does sound like a better plan.


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## John_DeereGreen

1olddogtwo;1820057 said:


> Thought we only had people and lots like that here in Chicago.


Oh dear god, they're everywhere here too. Haha

WalMart is one of the worst for us. They narrowed the driving lanes up to 20 feet from stripe to stripe...that's a*****....



Whiffyspark;1820189 said:


> I still haven't got the dent fixed from a few years ago when I was pushing a parking lot and hit ice. Back swung out and hit pole lol


It's happened to me twice...once in a skid steer, and once in a wheel loader...both times spray paint fixed the damage to my stuff...the car didn't fare so well...


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## Grounduptree

I spoke with the owner and hes gonna tell me what the price was for last year. I already got the contract for home depot and lowes so all i am waiting on is bobs which will be Tuesday after i find out the price


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## Defcon 5

Grounduptree;1820314 said:


> I spoke with the owner and hes gonna tell me what the price was for last year. I already got the contract for home depot and lowes so all i am waiting on is bobs which will be Tuesday after i find out the price


Did Home Depot and Lowes tell you the Price they wanted it plowed for also??....So..What ever price they tell you is good with you......


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## Whiffyspark

That's early for hd. Usually October before we get it


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## 1olddogtwo

Grounduptree;1820314 said:


> I spoke with the owner and hes gonna tell me what the price was for last year. I already got the contract for home depot and lowes so all i am waiting on is bobs which will be Tuesday after i find out the price


Hold the boat.....what's that smell.,..?

U put a thread like this and now you say you have a HD and a Lowes!

Does mommy or daddy know ur on the computer?


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## Grounduptree

Lowes and home depot told me there price and said if i do it alittle cheaper then its mine and i did. So they called me last me telling me i got it. I did them last year as a sub contractor for my friend that had the contract and did lowes and home depot with a backhoe and pickup truck.


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## Defcon 5

1olddogtwo;1820328 said:


> Hold the boat.....what's that smell.,..?
> 
> U put a thread like this and now you say you have a HD and a Lowes!
> 
> Does mommy or daddy know ur on the computer?


:laughing:..........:salute:


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## Buswell Forest

Whiffyspark;1820167 said:


> So you don't have any actual experience with loaders?


Cat 910, Cat 966b, Cat 950, Cat 966f, Case w24, IH 515, Case 580, Case 680, Deere 310b, Deer 410B, and more. Plowed entire chipping mills with the 966f, plowed entire IP sawmills with the Case W24, plowed a large facility with the 910 and 966b.

But no.


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## Ne1

So he just joined the site this month and his first questions are about how much to charge. Then he goes on to say he already does lowes etc...


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## PLOWTRUCK

I would do this lot with one machine with a push blade of 12 feet or more and one maybe two trucks to get the snow away from the building and curbs. Lot should take about 4 to 5 hours with 6 inches of snow on it. The question is where do you stack snow?


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## Ryank

1olddogtwo;1820328 said:


> Hold the boat.....what's that smell.,..?
> 
> U put a thread like this and now you say you have a HD and a Lowes!
> 
> Does mommy or daddy know ur on the computer?


lol, this kid (the OP) has no idea what he is getting into....he better stick to cutting trees....


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## Ryank

PLOWTRUCK;1824165 said:


> I would do this lot with one machine with a push blade of 12 feet or more and one maybe two trucks to get the snow away from the building and curbs. Lot should take about 4 to 5 hours with 6 inches of snow on it. The question is where do you stack snow?


the edges of the lot are great for stacking the snow, its an easy lot for someone that has 1 year of snow plowing experience or less......and 1 skid steer with a push box and 1 or two trucks could do this easy....very few entrances to shovel and the places don't open until 10am.... like i said its an easy push.


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## Ryank

Defcon 5;1819961 said:


> is it 4 months for $7000 or is it 5 months for $7000????........Is it UNLIMITED Hours????
> 
> These are Basic Questions.....You need to know your basic costs before you can even bid properly on sites like this.....
> 
> How much an hour is it gonna cost you to run this machine????


he's paying them for the first year :laughing: after 7000 for machine rentals the remaining 6500 is gonna go to labor, gas/diesel and salt and whatever else his expenses are or i could be wrong and he might make 1-2 thousand on the whole deal :laughing: the other 4500 if not more is going to taxes. so he's doing this one for free at 18k


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