# Ventrac 4500



## jhakarter

Hey there. I just recently purchased a ventrac 4500'with broom. I Absolutly love the machine- I currently run 11 deere brooms and would
Switch to All ventrac in a heartbeat. Abyway- I have one question- downfall, when we broom across sidewalks that have handicap ramp ups in them, the broom will leave snow. It brooms good up the one side but in the other side it does not follow the contour of the ground and leaves snow. Curious if anyone has any insite to this. We run the lever in float mode almost all the time. The deere float over the handicap areas and get them all clean but I just cannot get these clean. Thanks!


----------



## WIPensFan

Pics would help. Not sure what you mean. Anyway, attach a shovel on the machine and hop out and shovel that bit. How long could it take, 30 sec??


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Question, why is the Ventrac superior to the Deere if it doesn't clean as well? 

What Deere\broom combo are you using?


----------



## abbe

You guys must get all light and dry snow. My broom is good for maybe a storm or two a year on my ventrac. The rest need plow or blower.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Mark Oomkes

Don't you have 2 series Deeres--can you post photos and reviews?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

SDLandscapes VT;2121215 said:


> Mark Oomkes
> 
> Don't you have 2 series Deeres--can you post photos and reviews?


1025r, I will when I'm finished not liking someone's Facebook page or whatever it's called.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

So lets dialog on this as I m looking for a sidewalk type machine choices right now

Ventrac 4500

JD 2032R with cab, some sort of frame mount vplow and front blower with drop PTO spreader

48" width ideal 60" width acceptable


----------



## hawkfan45

I love my Ventrac 4500 for snow. It is hands down my favorite machine I own to operate. It should be comparable in price to the JD 2032R when you add in the cab and attachments. Probably you would save some money if you went with the JD 2025R.

Size - my 4500 is 48" wide. The v-blade get down to that width as well, but their broom and blowers are both wider than 48".

Are you planning on using this unit outside of winter, or changing attachments throughout the winter? If so, go Ventrac and don't look back. Way easier to switch attachments, and is an awesome mower to have in the fleet. Also, Ventrac won't tear up turf like the JD 2023R will. If you need the front end loader, Ventrac has an okay option, but JD has the advantage there. I find the Ventrac power bucket to adequate for 99% of the jobs I do though.

Changing Ventrac Attachments - 



Installing the snowblower to the JD2023R - 




Another big advantage that I see with Ventrac - the hand-controlled hydrostatic drive is smooth and easy to operate. Very natural to new operators, and makes smooth and quick transitions from forward to reverse. The articulating frame gives it an awesome turning radius for a 4-wheel drive machine.

Find someone in your area that has a Ventrac and give it a try and let me know what you think.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

So I have allegedly a ventrac demo--i ll believe it when I m sitting in the seat.

Follow up questions--from sitting in one at NE grows the hand controls seemed awkward to me vs foot pedal drive of JD with steering wheel and hydraulics for raise/lower/angle

If I go to the 2025 I might as well size down to the 1025. My biggest concern with the JD is the blower looks cheap and lacks deflection control and has cable spout spin, an aftermarket V plow like the boss would be ideal, but boss doesn't make one 48" small--anyone have a suggestion. 

I could argue for either of these machines equally in the summer--I have a great john deere dealer and I own three larger rigs already. The ventrac isnt a dealer, but an authorized representative--he can do some service etc, but no dealer per se locally for in storm support.

PTO drop spreader I believe is cheaper than Ventrac option as well?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Hijack alert.

Hmmm, the one with the blower wouldn't upload.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

SDLandscapes VT;2122283 said:


> So I have allegedly a ventrac demo--i ll believe it when I m sitting in the seat.
> 
> Follow up questions--from sitting in one at NE grows the hand controls seemed awkward to me vs foot pedal drive of JD with steering wheel and hydraulics for raise/lower/angle Never looked at one up close, but the steering wheel\2 pedal system on the Deere is easy to figure out, much like a car.
> 
> If I go to the 2025 I might as well size down to the 1025. My biggest concern with the JD is the blower looks cheap and lacks deflection control and has cable spout spin, Valid concerns, our blower doesn't see much use, only in heavier snowfalls. Maybe 3 times last year? an aftermarket V plow like the boss would be ideal, but boss doesn't make one 48" small--anyone have a suggestion. Cut a Boss down?
> 
> I could argue for either of these machines equally in the summer--I have a great john deere dealer and I own three larger rigs already. The ventrac isnt a dealer, but an authorized representative--he can do some service etc, but no dealer per se locally for in storm support.
> 
> PTO drop spreader I believe is cheaper than Ventrac option as well?


I'd like to get either a Ventrac or SnowEx drop spreader for my Deere yet. Eventually.

Overall, I'm very happy with the 1025R and broom for 95% of our snowfalls. The blower worked great when we used it. Never priced a Ventrac, the only thing I've heard is they're expensive.


----------



## hawkfan45

agreed - the hand controls of the Ventrac are a little awkward at first. After using them for a while, I wouldn't want to go back to the foot controls. If you are used to running equipment, the learning curve should be real quick for you. 
The spreader for a Ventrac...I've seen their drop salter at a show, but don't personally own one. I really liked what I saw about it though. If you are trying to save some bucks, and aren't putting down a lot of material, than go with the PTO spreader.


----------



## framer1901

Are you guys using the big or small Ventrac and how is the quality of lawn cut with those?

Mark - do you use your tractor at all in the summer? I'm guessing you have other bigger stuff to use instead though - I'm looking for something that I could use both seasons, whether it be mowing or small landscape jobs.

I've even seen New Hollands front deck mower is 4wd.....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

We used it for spring cleanups last year. 

Thinking aboot an aerator. Gemplers has a cool 12v electric spreader that will attach to the 3 point. A nice little 4' brush hog would be nice too.


----------



## hawkfan45

I'm using the Ventrac 4500 for mowing. Cut Quality is fine, the big roller on the back of the deck does an awesome job of laying stripes on the lawn. I put the Ventrac on hills that my zero turn would have never gone. That Ventrac has no fear of going on steep stuff.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

anyone have a blade on the John Deere even a straight one--dealer thinks it might be too light duty for what I want to do. How and where are you guys using these machines, how do you get them to the site and transit them there--do you drive from site to site, whats the "roading" ability? How fast are in the field implement switches?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

MOomkes has me thinking because a 1025R or even 2025R is significantly cheaper, but I need to know if it is as capable.


----------



## A&J Landscaping

We bought our first ventrac this year . We got the 3400 with cab diesel and got the snow blower broom and stainless steal drop spreader. We spent $36,000 for everything. We love it we use the broom the most and then put the blower on at the end of the storm for the heavy snow. The drop spreader works awesome. The machine is 40 inch's wide with the attachments witch is great because it fits everywhere. We will be adding 2 more for next year.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Be nice to hear from the OP..........but in the mean time, what makes a Ventrac the bestest and onlyiest sidewalk machine in the world? 

I'm ready for some Kool-Aid.


----------



## framer1901

Uggh - 36k for the small one? Those attachments average what 4k each, that's still 20 for the tractor - ugghh.

Big difference I see between them is articulating if you need the manuverability - I hate how real tractors just don't turn so well. I need to go drive one of those rear steer front mount mowers.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

framer1901;2122926 said:


> Uggh - 36k for the small one? Those attachments average what 4k each, that's still 20 for the tractor - ugghh.
> 
> Big difference I see between them is articulating if you need the manuverability - I hate how real tractors just don't turn so well. I need to go drive one of those rear steer front mount mowers.


After running Groundsmasters (mowing) for a long, long, long time, no doubt they are a fantastic sidewalk machine. Pretty sure Tender Lawn still runs 1 or 2.

Maneuverability was one of the reasons I went with the 1025. Normal front steer, but it turns very tight. Very.

And at $36k, I can buy 1.5 1025's for the price of 1 small Ventrac. I'd bet $4k is on the low end for any powered attachment.


----------



## syzer

We just picked one up this year as well. We haven't taken it out on a storm yet, this was one of our guys running the machine for the first time on walks in front of the shop. I need to adequately train them prior to use on our communities as its a little tricky for a newbie to get the hand of immediately.

You can see in this video what the original poster was talking about with the little bit of missed snow going down on concrete walk/drive entrances. The broom doesn't have enough flex to bend down as far as it needs to adequately clear the down ramps. Its only a small bit though that willl be melted with ice melt.


----------



## hawkfan45

I've tried the 3400 tractor before. I could see this one having a longer learning curve. Saw ventrac posted this to their Facebook page today. That snowblower is going through some serious stuff.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

I was quoted for a brand new 4500 z ventrac, cab, blower, broom, and wired for spreader $36K out the door.

I m still trying to get numbers on a myriad of JD possibilities. The snow attachments just don't seem rugged enough and no good v-plow option


----------



## Triple L

Mark Oomkes;2122932 said:


> After running Groundsmasters (mowing) for a long, long, long time, no doubt they are a fantastic sidewalk machine. Pretty sure Tender Lawn still runs 1 or 2.
> 
> Maneuverability was one of the reasons I went with the 1025. Normal front steer, but it turns very tight. Very.
> 
> And at $36k, I can buy 1.5 1025's for the price of 1 small Ventrac. I'd bet $4k is on the low end for any powered attachment.


How much do you think a diesel ventrac or steiner is? I was quoted 24 for one last year with a cab...

You could buy 1.5 1025r compared to a bobcat t450 buy a little deere and a steiner are the same price all day long


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Chad is that for a 3XXX or 4XXX series Ventrac? If it's a 4 that's a good deal.

We've got 2 Ventrac 4000's in Athens, both with the gas Kubota engine. Cabs with heat, v plows, brooms, and blowers. They're absolutely incredible in production and maneuverability. They're just extremely expensive. We've got right at 40K in each one with those attachments. 

Mark, if you don't mind how do you like the 1 series Deere? I'm looking at either a 4WD 4WS 700 series Deere garden tractor, or a 1 series sub compact for next winter, mainly because it's half the cost of the Ventrac. I'm leaning toward the 700 series for maneuverability, but haven't decided one way or the other. Price wise they're going to be pretty close to the same. It's going to be a dedicated winter machine, no summer use at all other than a fancy shop ornament. Hence the reason I'm having a hard time spending the money on a Ventrac.


----------



## wrtenterprises

I purchased a new 2015 440 40hp gasser Steiner for $14,000.00 near Pittsburgh, PA this October from a dealer. $2,300.00 for a V-plow, and $2,400.00 for a 54" blower. These units are built like a tank, as is the Ventrac. The Ventrac seems to be more dough as well. No opinion on which is better, I've only used Steiners and have had few issues....


----------



## Laner

Jarrett -We use JD X739's with 47" 2-stage blowers for snow removal. They work well! The 4x4 and 4 wheel steer, no chains required. We have used a broom as well, but most of our snow is wet and doesn't move well with the broom. These tractors work well for us. We don't have cabs on them currently, but would like to get to that point soon. The guys running the blowers also do their own shoveling many times, so they are on and off the tractor a lot.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Triple L;2123310 said:


> How much do you think a diesel ventrac or steiner is? I was quoted 24 for one last year with a cab...
> 
> You could buy 1.5 1025r compared to a bobcat t450 buy a little deere and a steiner are the same price all day long


When the sales rep tells me that guys say "I can buy a truck for that much" I kinda figure it's in the $40K range. That's the tractor, cab, blower, broom and V.

I don't remember the exact price, but I had under $25k into my 1025R, cab, heater, broom and blower.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

SDLandscapes VT;2123257 said:


> I was quoted for a brand new 4500 z ventrac, cab, blower, broom, and wired for spreader $36K out the door.
> 
> I m still trying to get numbers on a myriad of JD possibilities. The snow attachments just don't seem rugged enough and no good v-plow option


I haven't looked into it, because a broom and blower makes more sense for us, but I would first look into a Boss UTV V-plow if I wanted one on a 1 or 2 Series.



John_DeereGreen;2123645 said:


> Mark, if you don't mind how do you like the 1 series Deere? I'm looking at either a 4WD 4WS 700 series Deere garden tractor, or a 1 series sub compact for next winter, mainly because it's half the cost of the Ventrac. I'm leaning toward the 700 series for maneuverability, but haven't decided one way or the other. Price wise they're going to be pretty close to the same. It's going to be a dedicated winter machine, no summer use at all other than a fancy shop ornament. Hence the reason I'm having a hard time spending the money on a Ventrac.


We love the 1025. It has been virtually problem free, the only thing that has broken has been the adjustment thing for tipping the broom forwards or back.

Where I have mine it stays within a mile of where it starts, actually less, but give it a mile. We have it in an enclosed trailer on site.

When I was looking for a replacement for the POS Gator, I initially wanted a 4WS tractor so I was looking at the 700 series. But I also wanted a diesel. You can't get a diesel with 4WS, so I started looking at the 1 and 2 Series. I was a little concerned with maneuverability issues with the 2 Series. They are both good, but the 1 Series turns on a dime.

Attachment quality is definitely a concern. 95% of the time we use the broom for the accounts we use this tractor at. The other 5% would be the blower on heavy accumulations like yesterday. If it was a regular use attachment, I would have looked for another manufacturer or different piece of equipment. The broom has been very reliable, other than the problem mentioned above. We need to look at fabbing up something heavier duty than what it comes with.

For one of our other sidewalk crews we have a box truck that carries our Z-Spray\Plow. I am seriously thinking about getting a longer box truck that could transport the 1025 and use it at a couple other accounts, because it is underutilized as is and we need to come up with something better for the heavier storms where the Z-Spray doesn't work on long stretches of public walks.

All in all, I am extremely pleased with the 1025 and would purchase another. The one thing I would like to add yet is a Ventrac or SnowEx drop spreader to it.

The third crew has a quad and while it works, it is far from great compared to the JD or the Z-Spray. But I own it and the plow and a vehicle to pull it around during the winter.

One thing I do know, is I am sick of my sidewalk crews getting their butts kicked on these heavy storms and need to make some changes ASAP.

Probably should have gone with a 3 Series like JD and Dave did, but this way I can still transport it easily if I have to.


----------



## Ventrac

Hey guys,

I ran across this thread and wanted to chime in. I lurk around here from time to time but don't catch everything. This thread has a lot of good information it it though so I figured I'd add what I can and hopefully be of some help. 

I'll try to keep it from being a hyped up Ventrac ad and answer some of the questions posed here. 

First of all, yes, our machines and equipment can be quite expensive, relatively. We do get a lot of customers with big budgets that tell us we were the budget option.... go figure.... but for most of us average guys it's a massive purchase. (for some perspective, yes... I do work for the company, and no I do not own one ...yet. So I understand you guys on wanting one but not being able to just drop that kind of cash without even thinking about it.) Lucky for me, I get to use them every day whenever I want. 

Anyway, back to the price. We're not John Deere, which comes at some disadvantages but also some advantages for us. Their buying power is absolutely insane. We sure do wish we could compete on that front, but it's just not reality. That's probably the smallest part of the equation though. Because we're much smaller we have the ability to interact on a different level and control things that we want to in different ways. We end up with the price point that we are at due to what I would identify as 3 reasons:

Our Construction
Our Functionality
Our Support

Everything we make is designed to work and to be durable. One of our suppliers asked our engineers recently what kind of life cycle we design our products to meet and our head engineer literally laughed at the comment. He didn't necessarily find it humorous, but that's never been the design philosophy here and he'd never really realized that some people might make the assumption that there was some basis of planned obsolescence involved in our engineering. The point was and still remains that everything we build is built to be functional and to last. Specifically, as mentioned, our attachments will show this. This is likely partially due to the fact that we fabricate everything here at our factory but also due to the fact that since it's a large investment based on versatility, the attachments are NOT secondary. They're just as important as the power units. 

Another thing to note is that for a SMALL relative percentage, that same 4500 tractor can be outfitted with dual wheels and a tough-cut mowing deck and go hit some summer accounts on steep slopes that are very profitable in the off-season. We have a lot of snow contractors that don't bother using the Ventrac in the warmer months, but those that do absolutely would not go without it. Not everybody is going to take it off the sidewalks, so in that sense, it can be a big investment sitting idle. If used in snow only, there really has to be enough ground covered to justify the cost, but once it can be justified, we believe there's nothing better. 

Functionality wise, we fit into a space that is just right for the people who need our equipment. What that means is that we are also a glaringly mediocre fit for people who really need a full size skid loader, large ag tractor, or purely a zero turn mower. We excel at maneuverability, intuitive controls, efficiency, safety, etc. For the traditionalist who is used to foot pedals, our hand control is a learning curve. However, with an open mind, any operator can learn our system and be comfortable in mere minutes. The contractors who have embraced our controls and implement attachment frequently tell us that their Ventracs are universally accepted by their employees and do not require any extensive training or re-training. In tight spaces, the combination of articulation and our size works wonders. With all-wheel-drive, we're still able to be a very capable machine. Video demos and literature really are not that kind to our equipment. I know everybody says it, but there's a reason the first place we take our visitors to is the test zone out back. When the wheels start moving, that's when the light bulb goes off for most people. 

Lastly, the we take great pride in the support we offer. Everything I've already talked about is fine and dandy but most people make claims at least similar to these. The bottom line is that when it's needed, we're accessible. Machines are still machines and metal, composites, and construction aren't forever. We go to great lengths to make sure that people get answers and customers and dealers get support. If you call Ventrac at 330-683-0075 and ask for Aaron, you'll get me. And I'll be happy to talk to you about new product development (my role here) or facilitate a conversation with the proper individual for any other inquiry. It's absolutely true that we don't have as many dealers as Toro or John Deere, but we're working on that wesport !

I did find it interesting that there was one mention of a some sort of "sales representation" without being a servicing entity. None of our dealers are like that so it must be some sort of connection by that individual to an official dealer. Either way, if that person wants to chat about that, give me a few more details and I'd be happy to see what your best local options are for you. We have good overall dealer coverage here in the states and we're always improving as well. 

Somebody mentioned the "Ventrac Kool-Aid" ... I liked that. I guess if I had to describe what the secret sauce is, it boils down to products built for specialized tasks, with no compromises, supported as well as possible by real life people you can work with. But remember, just like the Kool-Aid, you can't decide if it's better than the grape drink you've got until you try it for yourself! It might not be! ....but we think there's a good chance it is 


As always, these are my opinions. And I'll try to pop over here more often to dialogue with you guys. Nobody likes a lurker.


----------



## WIPensFan

Ventrac;2124035 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I ran across this thread and wanted to chime in. I lurk around here from time to time but don't catch everything. This thread has a lot of good information it it though so I figured I'd add what I can and hopefully be of some help.
> 
> I'll try to keep it from being a hyped up Ventrac ad and answer some of the questions posed here.
> 
> First of all, yes, our machines and equipment can be quite expensive, relatively. We do get a lot of customers with big budgets that tell us we were the budget option.... go figure.... but for most of us average guys it's a massive purchase. (for some perspective, yes... I do work for the company, and no I do not own one ...yet. So I understand you guys on wanting one but not being able to just drop that kind of cash without even thinking about it.) Lucky for me, I get to use them every day whenever I want.
> 
> Anyway, back to the price. We're not John Deere, which comes at some disadvantages but also some advantages for us. Their buying power is absolutely insane. We sure do wish we could compete on that front, but it's just not reality. That's probably the smallest part of the equation though. Because we're much smaller we have the ability to interact on a different level and control things that we want to in different ways. We end up with the price point that we are at due to what I would identify as 3 reasons:
> 
> Our Construction
> Our Functionality
> Our Support
> 
> Everything we make is designed to work and to be durable. One of our suppliers asked our engineers recently what kind of life cycle we design our products to meet and our head engineer literally laughed at the comment. He didn't necessarily find it humorous, but that's never been the design philosophy here and he'd never really realized that some people might make the assumption that there was some basis of planned obsolescence involved in our engineering. The point was and still remains that everything we build is built to be functional and to last. Specifically, as mentioned, our attachments will show this. This is likely partially due to the fact that we fabricate everything here at our factory but also due to the fact that since it's a large investment based on versatility, the attachments are NOT secondary. They're just as important as the power units.
> 
> Another thing to note is that for a SMALL relative percentage, that same 4500 tractor can be outfitted with dual wheels and a tough-cut mowing deck and go hit some summer accounts on steep slopes that are very profitable in the off-season. We have a lot of snow contractors that don't bother using the Ventrac in the warmer months, but those that do absolutely would not go without it. Not everybody is going to take it off the sidewalks, so in that sense, it can be a big investment sitting idle. If used in snow only, there really has to be enough ground covered to justify the cost, but once it can be justified, we believe there's nothing better.
> 
> Functionality wise, we fit into a space that is just right for the people who need our equipment. What that means is that we are also a glaringly mediocre fit for people who really need a full size skid loader, large ag tractor, or purely a zero turn mower. We excel at maneuverability, intuitive controls, efficiency, safety, etc. For the traditionalist who is used to foot pedals, our hand control is a learning curve. However, with an open mind, any operator can learn our system and be comfortable in mere minutes. The contractors who have embraced our controls and implement attachment frequently tell us that their Ventracs are universally accepted by their employees and do not require any extensive training or re-training. In tight spaces, the combination of articulation and our size works wonders. With all-wheel-drive, we're still able to be a very capable machine. Video demos and literature really are not that kind to our equipment. I know everybody says it, but there's a reason the first place we take our visitors to is the test zone out back. When the wheels start moving, that's when the light bulb goes off for most people.
> 
> Lastly, the we take great pride in the support we offer. Everything I've already talked about is fine and dandy but most people make claims at least similar to these. The bottom line is that when it's needed, we're accessible. Machines are still machines and metal, composites, and construction aren't forever. We go to great lengths to make sure that people get answers and customers and dealers get support. If you call Ventrac at 330-683-0075 and ask for Aaron, you'll get me. And I'll be happy to talk to you about new product development (my role here) or facilitate a conversation with the proper individual for any other inquiry. It's absolutely true that we don't have as many dealers as Toro or John Deere, but we're working on that wesport !
> 
> I did find it interesting that there was one mention of a some sort of "sales representation" without being a servicing entity. None of our dealers are like that so it must be some sort of connection by that individual to an official dealer. Either way, if that person wants to chat about that, give me a few more details and I'd be happy to see what your best local options are for you. We have good overall dealer coverage here in the states and we're always improving as well.
> 
> Somebody mentioned the "Ventrac Kool-Aid" ... I liked that. I guess if I had to describe what the secret sauce is, it boils down to products built for specialized tasks, with no compromises, supported as well as possible by real life people you can work with. But remember, just like the Kool-Aid, you can't decide if it's better than the grape drink you've got until you try it for yourself! It might not be! ....but we think there's a good chance it is
> 
> As always, these are my opinions. And I'll try to pop over here more often to dialogue with you guys. Nobody likes a lurker.


Great post Aaron! If I had the money or need for a great sidewalk snow machine, I would buy a Ventrac because of this post. Way to sell it.


----------



## syzer

Ventrac;2124035 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I ran across this thread and wanted to chime in. I lurk around here from time to time but don't catch everything. This thread has a lot of good information it it though so I figured I'd add what I can and hopefully be of some help.
> 
> I'll try to keep it from being a hyped up Ventrac ad and answer some of the questions posed here.
> 
> First of all, yes, our machines and equipment can be quite expensive, relatively. We do get a lot of customers with big budgets that tell us we were the budget option.... go figure.... but for most of us average guys it's a massive purchase. (for some perspective, yes... I do work for the company, and no I do not own one ...yet. So I understand you guys on wanting one but not being able to just drop that kind of cash without even thinking about it.) Lucky for me, I get to use them every day whenever I want.
> 
> Anyway, back to the price. We're not John Deere, which comes at some disadvantages but also some advantages for us. Their buying power is absolutely insane. We sure do wish we could compete on that front, but it's just not reality. That's probably the smallest part of the equation though. Because we're much smaller we have the ability to interact on a different level and control things that we want to in different ways. We end up with the price point that we are at due to what I would identify as 3 reasons:
> 
> Our Construction
> Our Functionality
> Our Support
> 
> Everything we make is designed to work and to be durable. One of our suppliers asked our engineers recently what kind of life cycle we design our products to meet and our head engineer literally laughed at the comment. He didn't necessarily find it humorous, but that's never been the design philosophy here and he'd never really realized that some people might make the assumption that there was some basis of planned obsolescence involved in our engineering. The point was and still remains that everything we build is built to be functional and to last. Specifically, as mentioned, our attachments will show this. This is likely partially due to the fact that we fabricate everything here at our factory but also due to the fact that since it's a large investment based on versatility, the attachments are NOT secondary. They're just as important as the power units.
> 
> Another thing to note is that for a SMALL relative percentage, that same 4500 tractor can be outfitted with dual wheels and a tough-cut mowing deck and go hit some summer accounts on steep slopes that are very profitable in the off-season. We have a lot of snow contractors that don't bother using the Ventrac in the warmer months, but those that do absolutely would not go without it. Not everybody is going to take it off the sidewalks, so in that sense, it can be a big investment sitting idle. If used in snow only, there really has to be enough ground covered to justify the cost, but once it can be justified, we believe there's nothing better.
> 
> Functionality wise, we fit into a space that is just right for the people who need our equipment. What that means is that we are also a glaringly mediocre fit for people who really need a full size skid loader, large ag tractor, or purely a zero turn mower. We excel at maneuverability, intuitive controls, efficiency, safety, etc. For the traditionalist who is used to foot pedals, our hand control is a learning curve. However, with an open mind, any operator can learn our system and be comfortable in mere minutes. The contractors who have embraced our controls and implement attachment frequently tell us that their Ventracs are universally accepted by their employees and do not require any extensive training or re-training. In tight spaces, the combination of articulation and our size works wonders. With all-wheel-drive, we're still able to be a very capable machine. Video demos and literature really are not that kind to our equipment. I know everybody says it, but there's a reason the first place we take our visitors to is the test zone out back. When the wheels start moving, that's when the light bulb goes off for most people.
> 
> Lastly, the we take great pride in the support we offer. Everything I've already talked about is fine and dandy but most people make claims at least similar to these. The bottom line is that when it's needed, we're accessible. Machines are still machines and metal, composites, and construction aren't forever. We go to great lengths to make sure that people get answers and customers and dealers get support. If you call Ventrac at 330-683-0075 and ask for Aaron, you'll get me. And I'll be happy to talk to you about new product development (my role here) or facilitate a conversation with the proper individual for any other inquiry. It's absolutely true that we don't have as many dealers as Toro or John Deere, but we're working on that wesport !
> 
> I did find it interesting that there was one mention of a some sort of "sales representation" without being a servicing entity. None of our dealers are like that so it must be some sort of connection by that individual to an official dealer. Either way, if that person wants to chat about that, give me a few more details and I'd be happy to see what your best local options are for you. We have good overall dealer coverage here in the states and we're always improving as well.
> 
> Somebody mentioned the "Ventrac Kool-Aid" ... I liked that. I guess if I had to describe what the secret sauce is, it boils down to products built for specialized tasks, with no compromises, supported as well as possible by real life people you can work with. But remember, just like the Kool-Aid, you can't decide if it's better than the grape drink you've got until you try it for yourself! It might not be! ....but we think there's a good chance it is
> 
> As always, these are my opinions. And I'll try to pop over here more often to dialogue with you guys. Nobody likes a lurker.


Thank you for your input Aaron!

I do have a quick question. Prior to purchasing the 3400 we just did I picked up a 2001 3100 gasser with the sole purpose to see how well it worked for our purpose. We took it to a site with about 2' of snow, I put it on the walk with the blower and went about 300' in what felt like 5 minutes. After that I knew 2 things. 1- the machine is amazing and works perfectly for what we wanted. 2- put that sucker back on the truck and don't touch it again lol. The reason for the second was that it was so fast and efficient I would never make a dime because I didn't have pricing in place to accommodate that type of efficiency.

Anyway, my question. That 2001 machine has a serious whine in it now, I believe our mechanic said it was a hydro pump. We replace them occasionally on machines as they always tell us we can't rebuild them and they run is about 1800.00. Is there a way to find a used hydro pump or get a reconditioned unit? I was going to sell the machine, but not sure if maybe we may just fix and keep it.

Thanks for any input!


----------



## Triple L

Another question, what are the differences between ventrac and steiner? And why don't you have the big hp motors like steiner does?


----------



## John_DeereGreen

We use one of ours with duals for mowing extremely steep hills at a couple apartment complexes, and for some dam mowing as well. That's what the reasoning behind spending the extra money was on the first. We bought the second because it worked the first time, and it could become a good backup if the need arose. 

I won't hesitate to buy another when there's summer work for it. I'm having a hard time justifying it for winter only. We've got enough walks to keep it busy for a solid 6 hour route. That's the only thing that's making me think it's with it. 

And hearing 25k for a 1 series didn't help. A 739 isn't far off from that. 10500 for machine, 5 for cab, 5 for broom, 3 for blower, and 1500 for the heat and wiper. That's 25 also. 

Decisions decisions. Thankfully it can wait till fall at this point.


----------



## Ventrac

syzer;2124181 said:


> Thank you for your input Aaron!
> 
> I do have a quick question. Prior to purchasing the 3400 we just did I picked up a 2001 3100 gasser with the sole purpose to see how well it worked for our purpose. We took it to a site with about 2' of snow, I put it on the walk with the blower and went about 300' in what felt like 5 minutes. After that I knew 2 things. 1- the machine is amazing and works perfectly for what we wanted. 2- put that sucker back on the truck and don't touch it again lol. The reason for the second was that it was so fast and efficient I would never make a dime because I didn't have pricing in place to accommodate that type of efficiency.
> 
> Anyway, my question. That 2001 machine has a serious whine in it now, I believe our mechanic said it was a hydro pump. We replace them occasionally on machines as they always tell us we can't rebuild them and they run is about 1800.00. Is there a way to find a used hydro pump or get a reconditioned unit? I was going to sell the machine, but not sure if maybe we may just fix and keep it.
> 
> Thanks for any input!


Glad to hear your test experience went well!

As far as the transaxles on the 3100 go.... I'll have to double check with the service department monday on your specific unit. PM me your serial number if you can so that I can get a better answer. I know on the current transaxles, all the parts to rebuild them can be purchased but based on the price of the components from the manufacturer, by the time you pick them up from your dealer and pay your mechanic to do the work, most people just go the new route since it's less hassle and close in cost. As far as finding an already reconditioned unit...when you PM me, give me your location too and i'll see if I can find anybody somewhat near you that could possibly have something. Don't get your hopes up though.


----------



## Ventrac

Triple L;2124213 said:


> Another question, what are the differences between ventrac and steiner? And why don't you have the big hp motors like steiner does?


Steiner is owned and operated by Schiller Grounds Care out of Johnson Creek Wisconsin. They also own some other turf brands like Bobcat Mowers, Ryan, Little Wonder, etc...

Ventrac is located in Orrville, Ohio. We do not offer any other lines.

As far as the machines go, they both articulate / oscillate, have a similar footprint, and share the front mounting system for attachments but that's where the similarities really end.

As a package they're similar, but at the ground level and how they're put together from the inside out they're entirely different machines.

A big difference is the drive control. Our "SDLA" is patented and unique to us. It's really one of the things that makes our machines as intuitive to run as they are. We find it to be an advantage in tighter spaces where control is paramount.

Also, they offer the 235 (rear engine, rear steer) and we do not have a comparable machine. We offer the 3400 (rear engine, smaller than 4500, still articulated) and they do not have a comparable machine to that.

The best advice I can give you is to check them out side by side at a show or if you can find an owner with both. As an owner / operator, you'll be able to make the best call for yourself then.

As far as high horsepower goes, they offer 34 and 40 HP gas in the 440. They're Kohler and air cooled which is what it comes down to for why we don't offer bigger. Obviously, the diesel has to be 25hp or less due to Tier 4 emissions regulations. We use a Kubota for that so it's a logical step for us to use the Kubota gas equivalent. Both of those options are liquid cooled. For sake of product offering we wanted other options too. We work with Vanguard and Kawasaki so we offer those as well. The Kawi is liquid cooled and EFI. The Vanguard is our only air cooled engine. Since it's also our price-point 4500 tractor there's no reason to make it more expensive and have higher horsepower than our liquid cooled options.

Also, another important note is that the only way we can get true heat into the cab is through a liquid cooled system. So if going air-cooled, a cab is possible, but with no heat.

In a perfect world, there would be a lot of options from manufacturers for a liquid cooled, gas, efi, high hp, horizontal shaft engine near the price (and physical size) we need it to be and the unfortunate reality is that that's not the case right now. But it's getting better, so look out future, here we come.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

I should add, for what these things cost, they should come with an actual PTO shaft stub on the front, and not the electric clutch and belt drive crap.

That's my only complaint. Oh, and the cabs need A/C as an option. Charge me for it, they're already incredibly expensive. It's worth it to not have to take them off and on for summer-winter.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Aaron (Ventrac)

Thanks for your input--the sales representative here has a business that is strongly associated with one of your largest dealers. Because we have no metro and the previous dealer here didn't move any equipment the large dealer assumed the territory and sells through this guy--so yes we are working with a dealer, but they aren't local per se even though we are in their territory. This guy is a very capable technician so he can do some servicing it's just not the same as the relationship I have with JD where I d just take one off the lot in the middle of the night after a quick cell call to keep the operation rolling. There are no "backup" ventracs here. The road speed is also a touch of an issue for me--after some private conversations we are looking a slightly different direction. I hate trailering stuff during the snow and I need to jump around quickly. Still have a demo coming though so I may be yet convinced


----------



## WIPensFan

SDLandscapes VT;2124398 said:


> Aaron (Ventrac)
> 
> Thanks for your input--the sales representative here has a business that is strongly associated with one of your largest dealers. Because we have no metro and the previous dealer here didn't move any equipment the large dealer assumed the territory and sells through this guy--so yes we are working with a dealer, but they aren't local per se even though we are in their territory. This guy is a very capable technician so he can do some servicing it's just not the same as the relationship I have with JD where I d just take one off the lot in the middle of the night after a quick cell call to keep the operation rolling. There are no "backup" ventracs here. The road speed is also a touch of an issue for me--after some private conversations we are looking a slightly different direction. I hate trailering stuff during the snow and I need to jump around quickly. Still have a demo coming though so I may be yet convinced


How bad can trailering a Ventrac around in the snow be??


----------



## Mark Oomkes

WIPensFan;2124399 said:


> How bad can trailering a Ventrac around in the snow be??


Trailering in the snow sucks. Can it be done? Absolutely, I have a route setup that way, but it sucks.

A box truck is a far better alternative.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

so add a box truck or truck and trailer and your expensive ventrac just got real expensive.......rather just drive whatever from job to job and either get big ones or a lot close together.

trailering in the snow sucks and if you get as much as we do you would be doing it all the time


----------



## WIPensFan

Mark Oomkes;2124402 said:


> Trailering in the snow sucks. Can it be done? Absolutely, I have a route setup that way, but it sucks.
> 
> A box truck is a far better alternative.





SDLandscapes VT;2124420 said:


> so add a box truck or truck and trailer and your expensive ventrac just got real expensive.......rather just drive whatever from job to job and either get big ones or a lot close together.
> 
> trailering in the snow sucks and if you get as much as we do you would be doing it all the time


I don't see trailering as bad as you guys, but I'm used to it. I see the Ventrac as weighing less and being easier than a skid steer to pull around. SD...what type of sidewalk machine are you roading from job to job? Holder or something similar? Those are probably twice as much $$$.


----------



## Ventrac

John_DeereGreen;2124288 said:


> I should add, for what these things cost, they should come with an actual PTO shaft stub on the front, and not the electric clutch and belt drive crap.
> 
> That's my only complaint. Oh, and the cabs need A/C as an option. Charge me for it, they're already incredibly expensive. It's worth it to not have to take them off and on for summer-winter.


For what we design the tractors for, the PTO clutch and belt drive attachments represent the most efficient, economically matched system we have considered. Should we one day build a bigger, more expensive machine I could see this potentially being hydraulic or something different.

The A/C kind of leans back to my previous comment. There are just certain things we can't do at our price and HP point. We truly don't have the power across the 4500 line to run the tractor, attachments, potential electrical, and then Air Conditioning on top of all of that. You're not the first person to ask for A/C in the cab though....not even close to the first in fact.

It would be nice if we could say, well, a bigger engine costs $1,500 more so a new tractor with bigger engine and A/C costs only $1,500 more. But in reality, that bigger engine means a re-designed engine bay (front frame). Oops, now the tractor geometry front to back isn't preferable. Re-design the back now too. Uh-oh, now the hydraulic drive system needs revisions. If we're talking Diesel let's not forget to throw in a few extra thousand bucks for an approved Tier 4 emissions system. That $1,500 bigger engine just cost us a huge amount of money and results in a MUCH higher MSRP.

Maybe one day, we'll go all-in on a bigger machine. At that point, it will be ground-up designed to work and will not have all the limiting factors of our current compact size.

Side note: In terms of summer use, the 4500 spends a lot of time leaning one way or the other off a slope. Use of a cab severely impacts slope rating. So, even if we could add A/C on the highest HP unit and get by with a slower ground speed, we don't really want to encourage summer time cab use on this unit.

All that said, let's pose a question:

I hear the request all the time for things like this that require some more capability but then it's usually followed by the desire not to spend a whole lot more money.

You can buy a municipal vehicle (i.e. trackless, holder, mb, etc...) that's kind of the other end of the spectrum to the tune of $90,000-$100,000 +.

Do you and others here think there's a place for a machine that's somewhere in the middle of our current offerings and one of those $100,000 machines?


----------



## Ventrac

SDLandscapes VT;2124398 said:


> Aaron (Ventrac)
> 
> Thanks for your input--the sales representative here has a business that is strongly associated with one of your largest dealers. Because we have no metro and the previous dealer here didn't move any equipment the large dealer assumed the territory and sells through this guy--so yes we are working with a dealer, but they aren't local per se even though we are in their territory. This guy is a very capable technician so he can do some servicing it's just not the same as the relationship I have with JD where I d just take one off the lot in the middle of the night after a quick cell call to keep the operation rolling. There are no "backup" ventracs here. The road speed is also a touch of an issue for me--after some private conversations we are looking a slightly different direction. I hate trailering stuff during the snow and I need to jump around quickly. Still have a demo coming though so I may be yet convinced


I see... That clears it up for me.

Having a dealer that is capable of putting a loaner on your truck in a time of need is a real advantage. I know our dealers are not universally able to do that. That's definitely something to keep in mind.

Ground speed is a real issue for us if you're planning on doing much commuting with the thing. There's really no way around this on our current 4500. Articulation and short wheelbases cause problems at higher speeds.

I would like to know though, for developmental reasons, how fast do you need to travel between your sites?

Enjoy the demo. Hopefully you get a chance to run it in some snow. Regardless, thanks for the consideration!


----------



## sven1277

Ventrac;2125006 said:


> I see... That clears it up for me.
> 
> Having a dealer that is capable of putting a loaner on your truck in a time of need is a real advantage. I know our dealers are not universally able to do that. That's definitely something to keep in mind.
> 
> Ground speed is a real issue for us if you're planning on doing much commuting with the thing. There's really no way around this on our current 4500. Articulation and short wheelbases cause problems at higher speeds.
> 
> I would like to know though, for developmental reasons, how fast do you need to travel between your sites?
> 
> Enjoy the demo. Hopefully you get a chance to run it in some snow. Regardless, thanks for the consideration!


 15mph minimum is really required the more the better


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ventrac;2124035 said:


> Somebody mentioned the "Ventrac Kool-Aid" ... I liked that. I guess if I had to describe what the secret sauce is, it boils down to products built for specialized tasks, with no compromises, supported as well as possible by real life people you can work with. But remember, just like the Kool-Aid, you can't decide if it's better than the grape drink you've got until you try it for yourself! It might not be! ....but we think there's a good chance it is
> 
> As always, these are my opinions. And I'll try to pop over here more often to dialogue with you guys. Nobody likes a lurker.


Just an FYI if you didn't know........"drinking the Kool-Aid" is not usually considered a positive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid


----------



## Ventrac

Mark Oomkes;2125308 said:


> Just an FYI if you didn't know........"drinking the Kool-Aid" is not usually considered a positive.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid


Yeah, I know. But it would have been rude to ignore it and awkward to call it out in a negative light. But, here we are now. Anyway, my position still stands!


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Ventrac (Aaron)

Just wanted to follow up with this--I would be very interested in a mid machine--something in the $45K to $55K range as that is where most of the mid setups end up

Trackless/Holder/MB are nice but not maneuverable much beyond a constant run down a sidewalk and I need a machine that can do that and not be left high and dry in entryways or wider plaza type areas--multifunction V plows, easy attachment swaps etc.

I will say this--yours are the best built attachments I ve see in this class particularly the snowblower. John Deere leaves me a bit wanting in this category.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

*forgot....*

and 15 to 20 mph top speed


----------



## Ventrac

SDLandscapes VT;2126819 said:


> Ventrac (Aaron)
> 
> Just wanted to follow up with this--I would be very interested in a mid machine--something in the $45K to $55K range as that is where most of the mid setups end up
> 
> Trackless/Holder/MB are nice but not maneuverable much beyond a constant run down a sidewalk and I need a machine that can do that and not be left high and dry in entryways or wider plaza type areas--multifunction V plows, easy attachment swaps etc.
> 
> I will say this--yours are the best built attachments I ve see in this class particularly the snowblower. John Deere leaves me a bit wanting in this category.





SDLandscapes VT;2126820 said:


> and 15 to 20 mph top speed


Thanks for the input. We're hearing this more often lately.


----------



## fireball

choice of colors, red is always faster


----------



## John_DeereGreen

20 mph would be awesome. Even 15. Save trailering them everywhere. What about a steerable front axle that locks out the center pivot when road gear is engaged?

I'll offer to test the hell out of a prototype, less than 20 minutes away from where they're made.


----------



## Ventrac

John_DeereGreen;2127207 said:


> I'll offer to test the hell out of a prototype, less than 20 minutes away from where they're made.


I'll definitely keep that in mind.


----------



## lawntec

Here is my take on the Ventrac. 
I turned a walkbehind mower into a walkbehind plow...it was awesome; which resulted to me getting more properties. I then upgraded to an atv with a plow, it was great! Again, I landed more properties. So I wanted to up the anti. So I set out to buy the best set up money could buy. I looked at everything, from JD, Kubota, side by sides, mini trucks....everything.

I ended up buying a Ventrac 4300 series, with a broom, 72" mower, 48" blower, tine rake, rear pull plow, full cab, duals....blah blah blah. Here is the scoop....it was the answer to my problems. I will never regret spending that kind of money on the machine. It has paid for itself over and over. I see my competition in winter using, JD's, Kubota's, and bobcats...all with brooms....I am faster than everyone of them. The articulating frame, allows me to climb grader mounds and turn around and come back. The broom is full of bristles (not diamond shape), so I can go as fast as I want and still do a perfect job. It turns the corner without missing snow. I am as hard on the machine as anyone will ever be...and yes, I have hit very hard things (including fire hydrants - yes I broke my nose, lol). The machine handles everything I put at it.

The mower is stunning build quality, and fast!

I can not say enough about the machine. It is what I consider...the machine that professionals use. If you use something else...there is always something better (the ventrac). I would pit the performance against any other machine with confidence.

Because of my quality, I have grown my sidewalk only route 10 fold. And I never have to worry about loosing a property....because nobody can compete.


----------



## lawntec

Pic 1 - ventrac job in progress,
Pic 2 - the ventrac met its match, Kubota came to resce
pic 3 - Kubota finished the job.


----------



## framer1901

It's nights like that that the sidewalk guys don't show up - go figure.... Hey man, I supply shovels.

That could be the West side of one of the schools we do, oh dear lord it can be a nightmare - little loader and a bucket.


----------



## Doin_It

Mark Oomkes;2120986 said:


> Question, why is the Ventrac superior to the Deere if it doesn't clean as well?


Sounds to me like the JD's are the way to go. We don't run either machines, but going to JD's for next winter as they seem to be sweeping better then Ventrac.


----------



## lawntec

Doin_It;2129730 said:


> Sounds to me like the JD's are the way to go. We don't run either machines, but going to JD's for next winter as they seem to be sweeping better then Ventrac.


What am I missing? I honestly couldn't imagine anything sweeping better than a Ventrac. For real! I go side by side with Deeres Kubotas and the Ventrac is much better. When I say much better...I mean the only person who will notice the difference is someone in the biz. They are both good, just the Ventrac is better. 
The broom is full of bristles, not just diamond shape. So at full speed sweeping...the sidewalk is 100% perfect in one pass, wet or not.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

What am I missing? 

We have never had a problem clearing a walk in 1 pass. 

If we run the PTO at the recommended RPM's, the broom is spinning too fast and will blow the snow or dirt right back up over the broom. Drop it down to 2100-2200 and it works perfect.....full speed at those RPM's. 

For 2/3's the price.


----------



## STARSHIP

Would a Ventrac broom work on a Deere? I know that Ventrac has both a hydraulic driven and a belt driven (smaller) model. 

I wonder if you could put that belt drive version of the Ventrac on a little Deere. I have an older little 18HP Deere that has 2 sets of hydraulics and the front Mule to run a belt back to the mower deck that I was looking to try that out on. It sounds like the 1025 is a sweet little machine, and it's on the 'want to buy' list, but I wanted to do a little experimenting before I make the new purchase.


----------



## lawntec

Name 1 deer that can turn like a Ventrac? The ability to articulate is a missive time saver. The back fires follow the fronts path. It also means the broom will always point the direction you want it to go, a Deere would swing the broom to get the direction, this leaves a bit of snow on the sidewalk at each corner. 

What I was referring to when I said the sweeping quality was higher with the Ventrac...all of the Deeres and Kubotas I see with a broom (with diamond shape bristle pattern), leave a faint diamond shops when sweeping. This is where i say that only a person in the business would notice it; because the Deeres sweeping job is just fine. 

In order to fully understand...you have to own one. They are hard as hell to drive in the first 2 hours, but once you figure it out...it is the best. Hands down.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Sorry, still can't see how it is worth 30-50% more. 

And trust me, I ain't Dutch.


----------



## STARSHIP

I understand the maneuverability advantages of the Ventrac, but we are looking to setup a sidewalk route that is predominately 5' wide and in very long distances, so turning around isn't really an issue. That is why I was wondering about a Ventrac broom on a baby deere. It sounds like they have a great broom, only the one I was looking at is belt driven. I don't rule out a Ventrac down the road, but the right route would have to be in place.


----------



## PineCreekPM

lawntec said:


> Name 1 deer that can turn like a Ventrac? The ability to articulate is a missive time saver. The back fires follow the fronts path. It also means the broom will always point the direction you want it to go, a Deere would swing the broom to get the direction, this leaves a bit of snow on the sidewalk at each corner.
> 
> What I was referring to when I said the sweeping quality was higher with the Ventrac...all of the Deeres and Kubotas I see with a broom (with diamond shape bristle pattern), leave a faint diamond shops when sweeping. This is where i say that only a person in the business would notice it; because the Deeres sweeping job is just fine.
> 
> In order to fully understand...you have to own one. They are hard as hell to drive in the first 2 hours, but once you figure it out...it is the best. Hands down.


John Deere 2026R turns sharper than a ventrac 4500Y


----------



## lawntec

Take both machines, drive them 3" off a glass wall, get to the end of the wall, and turn as sharp as you can. One of the two machines back tires are going to brake a window pane...one is not. Guess which one?!

The Ventrac's articulating steering means the back tires follow the exact same path as the front...if the fronts dont the wall...the backs wont either. What deer does that?


----------



## lawntec

STARSHIP said:


> I understand the maneuverability advantages of the Ventrac, but we are looking to setup a sidewalk route that is predominately 5' wide and in very long distances, so turning around isn't really an issue. That is why I was wondering about a Ventrac broom on a baby deere. It sounds like they have a great broom, only the one I was looking at is belt driven. I don't rule out a Ventrac down the road, but the right route would have to be in place.


Ventrac broom on a Deere? That sounds like a tough conversion. Why would you want a Deere over a Ventrac? Just for cost? Hmm..if you have a Ventrac, you will build your route accordingly.

I know it sounds like I am a piad voice for them, lol, but seriously....I have been doing this a long time, and after I used the Ventrac....I knew there was no upgrade, I could not have 'spent more to get a better machine'. For sidewalks...I personally would never use anything else.


----------

