# Wheel loaders with 7500+ hours/ 12000+hours



## CK82 (Sep 17, 2005)

Hey Guys,

Curious your thoughts on wheel loaders with around 7500 hrs.? 12000hrs.?

Don't do it? What to watch out for?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

CK82 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Curious your thoughts on wheel loaders with around 7500 hrs.? 12000hrs.?
> 
> Don't do it? What to watch out for?


There was a post on here, maybe by @Mark Oomkes or
@cretebaby or someone, but it was something along the lines of the bigger the machine, the higher the hours that would be acceptable.


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Service records and a diesel tech inspection. Big outfit I chat with purchases former municipal machines only with full records and after a tech inspection. Not a guarantee, but served them fairly well over the years. Most of their purchases are Deere and usually have 6-9k hours


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

It depends....budget, what you can find and condition of the moochine.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

First one I bought had 8,000+ hours and didn't need anything before putting it to work. (salt loader)

Second one had 3,000+ hours on it, needed tyres and that was about it. It's pushing an 18' box.

Tird was late summer/early fall and I was having a hard time finding the size I wanted with a tird valve. Found one in Wizzconsin that looked pretty decent, started off as a muni and then to a landscraper. Didn't have time to go look at it but did a bit of research. It had over 13,000 hours but I got it for a decent price and put about $15k into it, most of which I knew before I bought it, some was found after inspection after I took delivery--lift and tilt cylinders needed rebuilding, front brakes, slip yoke. More than I wanted to spend but it shifted great, doesn't smoke much on startup. Ended up replacing the speed control module after we started plowing with it and it wasn't shifting properly. Also put new tyres on it in February...the others were OK, but not great and snow tyres make a massive difference. I spent about as much on this one as the first one to put into service, which I was OK with.

Fort one was purchased this spring, needs a couple hoses replaced, tyres are a year old unfortunately, and it also needed a speed control module/sensor/whatever. Couple tyres had slow leaks. Again, very little smoke on startup, transmission shifts great (now). It also has a little over 13,000 hours on it. This one was a muni loader and was supposed to go to a dealer in Kneebraska but I snagged it first and save some trucking fees. Spent about the same as #1 and #3.

#1 is starting to rust around the cab corners due to loading salt.
#2 is in great condition bodywise.
#3 could use a new cab as it's pretty rusty but it's fairly well sealed. Water isn't coming in anyways.
#4 could also use a cab, but again it isn't whistling or raining inside the cab. 

So it depends on availability, budget, condition, what you are looking for and what you are willing to "put up with". The rust on 3 and 4 is really only noticeable when you're close up to it. Eventually I'll fix them or replace the cabs but right now they function and don't look like rolling scrap.


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## CK82 (Sep 17, 2005)

Are we talking 100hp loaders, or well over 100hp loaders Mark?

Were in need of some extra lift pin height for loading our quad axle thus:

Looking at a Deere 344k, road speed max is 18.6mph, I'd like 22+mph road speed. 

Also looking at a Cat 910m or 914m.

Thoughts?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Sorry, they're all 544s. 1 G and 3 Hs.

So all 120 HP+.

I leased then bought my 244. Bought a 204 that I have yet to take delivery of with around 2700 hours 

Personally, I wouldn't buy a 2 or 3 series with 12k hours. At 7k it would have to be in really good condition for me to consider it.


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

CK82 said:


> Are we talking 100hp loaders, or well over 100hp loaders Mark?
> 
> Were in need of some extra lift pin height for loading our quad axle thus:
> 
> ...


I do know Cat 910M/914M, same engine, just weight difference (now replaced with Cat 910/914/and 920 series next generation) , my little 908M 75HP/ 22 mph, the 910m/914M road speed with optional travel gear is 25mph and are def. machines

Pretty Sure the John Deere 344L is a 25mph road speed, not the "K"


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I think the 244Ls supposedly will do 25 as well. 

Here's the lineup minus the 204.


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## Ima dood (7 mo ago)

I'll tell you what. A new Holland blue plow would look killer on the front of one of those deeres.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

As fugly as that would be, it might work..


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

One other thing for me, the reason I've been sticking with "older" models...emissions and computer garbage. 

The H's have no emissions and are completely mechanical. My mekanik doesn't have software for J's and newer, so older it is. 

My 244 has the regen crap, but no DEF. So far I only had 1 problem where I couldn't force a regen and it derated. The tech had to force it through his laptop. Glad they have that forced regen switch.


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I think the 244Ls supposedly will do 25 as well.
> 
> Here's the lineup minus the 204.
> 
> View attachment 252946


244L top speed 23mph/ nice fleet.....just waiting for snow.........


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## CK82 (Sep 17, 2005)

Mark, How has/have the 2 series held up? Push snow only with them I'd assume?

You feel the return is there buying vs. Leasing? Larger higher hp loaders with higher hours I would say definitely theres great return if you can land the contracts.

Never leased here,but also only own 1 wheel loader and a 70hp kubota tractor, both with Metal Pless.

I'm really leaning towards a Cat 910m, or 910k-914k if they can be found.

Deere 344 I wasn't sure about road speed, but that'd make sense the newer model has 20+mph speed.


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## CK82 (Sep 17, 2005)

Does anyone know if the Deere 344k is 18mph road speed, or if that model the speed had increased?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So far so good. 1300 hours and the greater majority pushing snow. A little bit of yard work here and there as it's a really nice tool carrier. I guess it gets quite a bit of use in spring and fall moving plows, installing spreaders.

I leased for 3 years and the buyout was decent. I got (and still am) sick of making payments and having nothing at the end of it, which is another reason I bought the 204. After running some numbers, it didn't make as much sense as I thought initially. 

I'd consider a Cat if the right deal came along, or Volvo or a Komatsu. But after buying the first 544 and then another (the G) and having decent luck with them, figured I'd keep going. I can start stocking some common parts, they all operate the same, servicing them is the same, etc. 

I looked into a 344 before buying the 3rd H last year, again the numbers didn't work for me. Maybe I need to raise my rates. 

I typed it somewhere but I also looked at leasing a Case 721G. I could make the numbers work based on the total contract amount. But when I broke it down by the hour, I couldn't afford it. @Philbilly2 got me hewked on mat.


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

CK82 said:


> Does anyone know if the Deere 344k is 18mph road speed, or if that model the speed had increased?


344K top road/travel speed is 18.9 mph/ the 344L road speed is 25mph


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## Ima dood (7 mo ago)

I don't know how anyone makes the mini loaders pencil out. You can have a used 244 or 544 for $40k. Front blade costs about the same. Ultimately, the big guy can do twice the acres. I've got 9 machines and continue to buy more older pre emissions machines. I favor the Volvos and Deeres in the 12-14,000 gr range but also have a 25,000 hour Cat that I gave $15k for 6 years ago and it won't die. Higher hour machines may need an investment or two along the way but it's still way cheaper than leasing if you're in it for the long haul.


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So far so good. 1300 hours and the greater majority pushing snow. A little bit of yard work here and there as it's a really nice tool carrier. I guess it gets quite a bit of use in spring and fall moving plows, installing spreaders.
> 
> I leased for 3 years and the buyout was decent. I got (and still am) sick of making payments and having nothing at the end of it, which is another reason I bought the 204. After running some numbers, it didn't make as much sense as I thought initially.
> 
> ...





Ima dood said:


> I don't know how anyone makes the mini loaders pencil out. You can have a used 244 or 544 for $40k. Front blade costs about the same. Ultimately, the big guy can do twice the acres. I've got 9 machines and continue to buy more older pre emissions machines. I favor the Volvos and Deeres in the 12-14,000 gr range but also have a 25,000 hour Cat that I gave $15k for 6 years ago and it won't die. Higher hour machines may need an investment or two along the way but it's still way cheaper than leasing if you're in it for the long haul.


You bring up a few good points, however in my case the Cat compact wheel loader I have is the right size for the small/med lots we service. Anything bigger then 100HP for us on the current lots we do would be pushing it, some lots parking is so tight, I have to even watch it in a plow truck. I believe there is a place for all types of equipment on a site , agree about older equipment w/out def etc., However, I do like the comfort, amenities of modern equipment.......


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ima dood said:


> I don't know how anyone makes the mini loaders pencil out. You can have a used 244 or 544 for $40k. Front blade costs about the same. Ultimately, the big guy can do twice the acres. I've got 9 machines and continue to buy more older pre emissions machines. I favor the Volvos and Deeres in the 12-14,000 gr range but also have a 25,000 hour Cat that I gave $15k for 6 years ago and it won't die. Higher hour machines may need an investment or two along the way but it's still way cheaper than leasing if you're in it for the long haul.


It all depends on the application. 

My 244 sets up some lots for a 544 with the pusher. Even if I dropped to a 12' or 14' pusher, the bigger machine would not fit. It also does some smaller/medium lots on that route. 

My 204 will be replacing a tracked skid. I am very confident it will be more efficient than the skid despite being lower HP. I am limited in height and weight due to plowing a ramp.

The 244 will outplow a similar HP skidsteer all day, every day. I would have gone with another instead of the 204 if it weren't for the height limitation. It also does the work of 2 trucks with 1 operator. Basically my 244 is as maneuverable as a skid but able to plow more than a skid. 

Not saying they are for everyone, but who only has 1 size (caliber) hammer/wrench/screwdriver/FIREARM?


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## CK82 (Sep 17, 2005)

Thanks Guys for the explanations and info. Bigger isn't always better but definitely have to utilize the most suited equipment for the job.


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## Ima dood (7 mo ago)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not saying they are for everyone, but who only has 1 size (caliber) hammer/wrench/screwdriver/FIREARM?


Who enjoys firearms and doesn't want bigger? I'm trying to get someone on u ship to find a Russian tank in Ukraine and transport it back to the states for me.
Tank > Rifle > Airsoft 
Go big or go home. But yes, there is a time and place for everything. It would be significantly less practical to defend your home from an intrusion with a tank instead of a shotgun.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Ima dood said:


> Go big or go home.


Jarrett?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

CK82 said:


> Thanks Guys for the explanations and info. Bigger isn't always better but definitely have to utilize the most suited equipment for the job.


For some reason I really want a 444. Almost got one last year but it was priced a bit higher than what I wanted to spend and I found the 544. Seems like a really good fit for medium-smaller large lots. Good road speed and HP but smaller frame. Something about that size that intrigues me. But since then I've ended up with 2 more 544s. lol

One nice thing about the larger machines is heavier or wet snowfalls don't really slow them down appreciably. Burn more fuel but they keep right on going. My 244 will slow down pretty quick if it's wet snow. 

No matter what size, they outperform trucks 2:1 or 3:1. Possibly 4:1 in lighter snowfalls. Put a hydraulic wing plow on them and they really kick butt. I plowed 1 lot for my first time in a loader with my 18' pusher in 2 hours. Last year we had the PlowMaxx 1042-18 in that lot and he was running it off in an hour to hour and a half. So 25-50% more efficient than a pusher.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ima dood said:


> Who enjoys firearms and doesn't want bigger? I'm trying to get someone on u ship to find a Russian tank in Ukraine and transport it back to the states for me.
> Tank > Rifle > Airsoft
> Go big or go home. But yes, there is a time and place for everything. It would be significantly less practical to defend your home from an intrusion with a tank instead of a shotgun.


If you find someone, ask if they can get 2, maybe we can get a deal...as long as it isn't NH blooo.


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## Ima dood (7 mo ago)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Jarrett?


You go wash your mouth out with soap, think about what you said, and come back and apologize when you're ready.


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## emmett518 (May 3, 2021)

When I bought my backhoe, I was told that number of hours was less important than how well the unit was maintained and serviced. A unit that had 8000 hours but was maintained impeccably, was a better choice than one with 1000 hours that was never greased, serviced or was abused. 
Also, be careful of letting someone else inspect the unit for you. I hired the Deere dealer in Indiana to do a pre-purchase inspection, and they sent a chimpanzee who missed a leaky front axle seal and some other issues. Luckily, they paid for those repairs when I found them after delivery.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

FWIW, I've had a mekanik inspect 1 loader for me that I ended up not purchasing. That one was being sold by another Jay...

Never been able to obtain service records either.

First time around, I looked at 2 others before buying the third one. First one was a 444H in NW Chiraq. I probably would have bought it as it was in decent shape and priced right, but then I went to look at a 54TC. It was a flaming POS, never stopped smoking, leaks, loose center pins and arms. And asking way too much. The one I ended up buying was in Wizzconsin but came from Floreeduh. It was a 6 hour drive one way and at a dealership that bought used, did some work and sold them again. Turns out while playing Dutch bingo, we knew some of the same people and the wife of the owner was from GR originally. 

I know, pushing my luck but haven't done any oil samples on them either, other than the one I bought last year that had a metallic shine to they hydro oil. Mekanik told me to sell it immediately, told him that wasn't much of an option because I had been looking all summer and hadn't found one in my price range with a third valve. The cylinder rebuilders said it looked pretty good...so far so good.

Also looked at a nice low hour muni machine in Denver that had come from SoCal, they used it for "beach recovery". The fresh paint covered a lot of rust, they had replaced the cab due to rust and the dash didn't work. So with that info, I didn't care that it was a low hour machine...all I could see was more repairs due to living in a salty air environment.

Look at it, drive it, check tires, center pins, lift/tilt arm pins and bushings. Has it been greased a lot? Check fluids. Does it shift nice and tight? Slip? Hydro or any other fluid leaks?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Ima dood said:


> You go wash your mouth out with soap, think about what you said, and come back and apologize when you're ready.


My bad sorry, could of been worse... Like maybe Conner or Mark...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> My bad sorry, could of been worse... Like maybe Conner or Mark...


Don't you have some bitcoin to mine?


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Totally agree with @512high and @Mark Oomkes . When our route density picks up enough on our semi rural routes we will be going to small loaders. One big factor in the equation is depreciation on trucks vs equipment. My trucks lose 40-50k in value in their 5-6 year lifespan. Loaders average 200 hrs a season.

each item has their place. For us route density doesn’t allow for big machines yet until we get some of the few big lots on multi year contracts.


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