# is snowplowing for me?



## COAL REAPER (Dec 2, 2016)

Hi all, first post here. Been searching and reading a lot of old posts. I thank you all for the knowledge I have already gained. And I know this topic has been beat past death. Even if nobody responds to my post, if nothing else, laying this all out will help me at least. Thanks in advance.

I have experience plowing driveways, long lanes, and lots. Just not at a “money-making” level except for one year where I was a sub and naïve to the whole snow removal business. Read: didn’t get additional insurance like I should have. I can operate heavy equipment but don’t have the experience that most contractors would be looking for when hiring somebody. I would love to operate somebody elses equipment and not have to worry about paperwork or insurance or collecting money or anything like that. i could work for a guy driving a loader. But, I need a plow for my own lane so I have my superduty almost set up already. why not do some work with it? I can maintain my own truck and perform repairs.

Looking into commercial vehicle insurance. I need to determine if this route is worth it for me to the point where I can still turn a profit. I don’t have a business and don’t use my truck for hire for anything else. So if I am not in the seat of somebody elses vehicle, I am either interested in securing my own residential driveways to plow or being a sub for a commercial lot. And it might be late in the year to make this happen properly. i was in contact to be a sub, but i didnt get a good feel from that guy. As a sub for plowing (no sidewalks or salting), liability ‘should’ be covered by the contractor, or so they say. I would want to protect myself from incidents involving my vehicle, be it I take out a curb by accident or somebody slides into me while I am plowing. i was surprised when my insurance quote came in. it was like 25% of what others were claiming it might be. now i am second guessing the coverage or if i am missing something.

I have great worth ethic and attention to detail, as well as being handy enough and mechanically inclined. My regular job either closes or affords me to be able to take off whenever needed for storms, so I can be available 24/7. i am a bit of a storm nut so i dont sleep anyway when it is snowing. what i dont have an understanding of is the market it my area. i kinda know what i would like to be making per hour doing residentials, but idk what people are currently paying. i would think theres plenty of guys around me operating without the proper insurance and all.

so, whats right for me? and what am i missing? i am leaning away from sub-contractor work. definitely not for the guy i was already in contact with. i can drive a loader and do a limited amount of residential after i am done with his work. or i can concentrate solely on residential pieces. i know i am the only one that can ultimately make that decision, but what do yah think?

I the end, I might just can this whole idea and just worry only about my own lane.

Thanks again guys!


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Time to figure out what your costs are.
To see if you can make a livable profit while still being competitive.

Do you have an existing business?
If not I'd file for a business LIC , like a LLC


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## COAL REAPER (Dec 2, 2016)

as for costs, i am already going to have plow and truck for my own lane. vehicle insurance premium will be made up for with 4 small driveways on the first storm. and theres a lot of long lanes by me. then theres repairs which could happen just the same as if i was only doing my lane. business licencse costs. havent looked into that too much yet. is that just so if you were involved in a lawsuit they would be sueing your company rather than your person? i speculate that i wouldnt have enough time to get that in place for this season. so i would operate without it for the first year or just go drive that loader and do the LIC next year.
i had this all figured out to just go drive the loader. done. then the insurance came back so cheap and got me waters all muddled again!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

You will need general liability insurance, whether you're plowing your own contracts or working as a sub.

Making your business LLC will protect you individually. If you get sued without it they can come after you.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

You need general liability insurance, and you need commercial insurance for the truck. If you get in a wreck with the plow on, and you are charging for services, regular insurance for the truck won't cover it. It's New Jersey so I'm sure you have to get a business license in each municipality you will be plowing in to legally collect money. Also they may make you get a permit for snow removal, and I think New Jersey makes you collect tax for plowing as well. So you will need to get set up to pay taxes. I could be wrong as I'm not in NJ but trying to remember what others have said from there. 

You absolutely want to form an LLC to insulate yourself against lawsuits as it sounds like NJ is the lawsuit capital of the world. I also insure my plow. 

Those all contribute to your operating costs, along with fuel and maintenance.


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## COAL REAPER (Dec 2, 2016)

Okay. If thats all true it looks like i got too much to get together for this year. Looking like its loader only for this winter and setting myself up properly over the summer. Thanks for yur input.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

COAL REAPER said:


> Okay. If thats all true it looks like i got too much to get together for this year. Looking like its loader only for this winter and setting myself up properly over the summer. Thanks for yur input.


That's what I would do. It ain't worth it to loose everything you have because you weren't set up properly to run the biz.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Keep in mind when shopping for your different insurance packages. I recommend using a broker who understands you and your situation. There is a big difference between being minimally insured to appease a company's need for a COI, and having the insurance that you actually need and will cover you for everything you need should the need arise.

For example. I have all the insurance required for commercial and residential snow plowing. You would think that your plow and tools etc. would be covered as well right? Nope. I have an additional marine policy that coveres my tools, trailers, and plow. Mobile equipment like tools, plows, etc. are not stationary so they have to be covered under a marine policy. Dumb I know. But the moral of the story is that I have an insurance broker that I told everything I wanted covered. If not for him I would have just assumed that Mobil equipment was covered under the other policies and then would have been underinsured should I be in a wreck that totals the plow, or a tool trailer full of tools gets stolen etc.


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## COAL REAPER (Dec 2, 2016)

Is this still the case if it was just my truck doing residential plowing? No shoveling or salting or de-icing.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

I was just giving the example of insurance needs that you may not be aware of, hence using a good broker. It doesn't sound like you will need a marine policy. For the residential just on truck and no other equip as far as insurance goes probably just looking at commercial auto and General liability.


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## area51ford (Feb 27, 2015)

How much are you guys paying in NJ for plowing insurance.
I just checked with my agent and she quoted me $2700 for residential
work, and $5200 if also doing commercial.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

area51ford said:


> How much are you guys paying in NJ for plowing insurance.
> I just checked with my agent and she quoted me $2700 for residential
> work, and $5200 if also doing commercial.


Do you have a GL policy for the rest of the year that your adding a snow Ryder too? Or is that for a GL policy that you are getting just for snow?


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## COAL REAPER (Dec 2, 2016)

area51ford said:


> How much are you guys paying in NJ for plowing insurance.
> I just checked with my agent and she quoted me $2700 for residential
> work, and $5200 if also doing commercial.


Eek! I havent looked into GL yet but commercial vehicle insurance for my one truck would be $1100 for 12 months of $1M coverage. Good for residential and commercial work.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

COAL REAPER said:


> Eek! I havent looked into GL yet but commercial vehicle insurance for my one truck would be $1100 for 12 months of $1M coverage. Good for residential and commercial work.


From what I've heard for New Jersey the prices he was quoted are pretty cheap if it's a stand alone policy. Meaning that he only needs the GL for plowing and not the rest of the year. If those were the prices to add snow to an existing policy that would suck lol. But ya I'm in a state that has way better insurance prices than NJ and I pay around $3700 a year for GL with additional snow Ryder for residential and commercial, including my marine policy for my plow and all my tools and trailers 1M coverage 2M aggregate for the year. Commercial auto which includes two trailers is about 1k for 1M coverage. Work comp is based on wages but that is usually around $3,500 a year.


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## area51ford (Feb 27, 2015)

ktfbgb said:


> Do you have a GL policy for the rest of the year that your adding a snow Ryder too? Or is that for a GL policy that you are getting just for snow?


I already have GL. This would be the price I was quoted just for the snow
plowing insurance. 
What company are you using ? Maybe I could get a quote from them.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Doubt it. I don't think they insure across state lines. It's through Scottsdale indemnity. Also I think they only deal with brokers. if your not using a broker you really should. They will make sure that you are covered for all the specifics of your business and shop the best price possible for you.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

if they think gl is bad, wait till you get work comp...


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