# Do the numbers look right?



## flyguyirvin65 (Feb 18, 2015)

Hi All
I have been a long time reader and now looking to get some input on a bid. I have been plowing for years mostly residential and small commercial . I have 3 trucks now a bobcat.
Im putting together a bid for next year and looking for input on my numbers. Its a trucking company with 5.1 acres of lots to clear, 80% of it is open with lots of places to stack snow. the other 20% has docks to backblade, dumpsters to dodge and parked trucks kind of a PITA.. My proposal looks like this.

per push
$ 325 2-4 in
$ 125 4-6 in
$ 150 6-8 in
$ 175 8+
salting $380 only 2.5 acres gets treated.

I want the job but dont want to give it away or lowball and pull the numbers down in the area.
Give me our thoughts Thanks


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Where is the valley?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

1olddogtwo;1975150 said:


> Where is the valley?












Any pix of this lot/


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## flyguyirvin65 (Feb 18, 2015)

http://findlotsize.com/?place=7+tucker+poughkeepsie+ny+12603&submit=Go&r=e

http://findlotsize.com/?place=19+tucker+12603&submit=Go&r=e
The 2 location are almost next to each other

The valley is in between NYC and Albany


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

flyguyirvin65;1975146 said:


> Hi All
> I have been a long time reader and now looking to get some input on a bid. I have been plowing for years mostly residential and small commercial . I have 3 trucks now a bobcat.
> Im putting together a bid for next year and looking for input on my numbers. Its a trucking company with 5.1 acres of lots to clear, 80% of it is open with lots of places to stack snow. the other 20% has docks to backblade, dumpsters to dodge and parked trucks kind of a PITA.. My proposal looks like this.
> 
> ...


$XXX 2in or less
$XXX 2.1-4
$XXX 4.1-6
$XXX 6.1-8
$XXX 8.1-10
beyond this, there is a few ways to do it....but as for the actual inch brackets, I prefer they read as I listed them. For 10.1in or more, I have a structure that combines brackets to equal the total.

You have 4in & 6in in (2) price brackets....as a customer I would always want the cheaper one.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

What you need to know is the going price per acre in your area. 
For instance here I can get $150 an acre. So your 5.1 acres would be around $765 high side but no less than $500.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Why is 4-6 cheaper than 2-4?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Longae29;1975304 said:


> Why is 4-6 cheaper than 2-4?


Bait and switch,no matter what only 2-4 fell.


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## flyguyirvin65 (Feb 18, 2015)

snocrete;1975223 said:


> $XXX 2in or less
> $XXX 2.1-4
> $XXX 4.1-6
> $XXX 6.1-8
> ...


I see your point. I never had customer try to use that on me.

The $325 is base price and anything over 4 in is add to base price
per push
$ 325 2-4 in
$ 125 4-6 in
$ 150 6-8 in
$ 175 8+
salting $380 only 2.5 acres gets treated.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

snocrete;1975223 said:


> $XXX 2in or less
> $XXX 2.1-4
> $XXX 4.1-6
> $XXX 6.1-8
> ...


Problem is you will eventually get the customer that will say the snow was 4.05" which is under the 4.1" price trigger and want the lower price.

I give a trigger price, usually 2". Then when the next inch is reached the price goes up only if 3.0" is reached and for every inch that is reached. Goal is to keep systems simple as possible.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Longae29;1975304 said:


> Why is 4-6 cheaper than 2-4?


how can 4in of snow have 2 prices



32vld;1975353 said:


> Problem is you will eventually get the customer that will say the snow was 4.05" which is under the 4.1" price trigger and want the lower price.
> *BS.....and the contract states how its determined. Never had a problem in the eleven yrs I've been using the structure.*
> 
> I give a trigger price, usually 2". Then when the next inch is reached the price goes up only if 3.0" is reached and for every inch that is reached. Goal is to keep systems simple as possible.


I do agree about keeping things simple....I guess some people have a different interpretation of what that is.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

snocrete;1975378 said:


> how can 4in of snow have 2 prices
> 
> I do agree about keeping things simple....I guess some people have a different interpretation of what that is.


2+2= 9.......Yup those numbers look right to me......Of course I have a Huge Hangover.....


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I hate these per inch bids. Nothing but an argument waiting to happen. If that's how they want it then you have no choice but to comply but any time possible we bid for 2-4 inches. Every 2-4 inches it gets scraped and they pay that price.

Good luck.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

After seeing the photos you are experienced how long would it take for you to remove 4 inches ?


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

John_DeereGreen;1975415 said:


> I hate these per inch bids. Nothing but an argument waiting to happen. If that's how they want it then you have no choice but to comply but any time possible we bid for 2-4 inches. Every 2-4 inches it gets scraped and they pay that price.
> 
> Good luck.


10-4 on that good buddy !

I had an account years ago pull up NOAA reports and told me I owed them


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## Stinson Landscp (Feb 7, 2010)

Ive done the 2-4 4-6 etc route before. It was pain, too many numbers and the jump to the next level wasn't worth it. Ive since switched to less then 2, 2-6 6-10 10+ I averaged out the numbers and made them work. Cause honestly its not that much additional work for 5 inches compared to 4. 

If you havent already go check out that trucking companies lot, just from driving by I think its kind of whooped and beat to hell, but maybe thats just out by the road.

I'd go seasonal on both. Good luck with the police station even if you thing your pricing is good someone will always be lower.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

John_DeereGreen;1975415 said:


> I hate these per inch bids. Nothing but an argument waiting to happen. If that's how they want it then you have no choice but to comply but any time possible we bid for 2-4 inches. Every 2-4 inches it gets scraped and they pay that price.
> 
> Good luck.


Im surprised to see so much resistance on this structure...I've had a few accounts set up this way for 11yrs. Never once has there been an issue...and never have I felt it wasn't working.



On a Call;1975466 said:


> I had an account years ago pull up NOAA reports and told me I owed them


Well, either you were lying about the amount, or your contract wasn't worded correctly, to cover you, in the event that most areas around you got less. I/contract doesn't rely on 1 source or method of determining amounts. On site is the ultimate decider though, if needed.....and again, I've never had a problem. I have a mixture of accounts that are set up this way, per push, hourly, & seasonal. Hopefully, over the next few yrs, I have "about" a 50/50 split of seasonal & inch increment/per push....hourly I could do without. To each their own.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Stinson Landscp;1975469 said:


> . Cause honestly its not that much additional work for 5 inches compared to 4. .


No, but theres a HUGE difference between 6in of wet snow and a 2in fluff....especially when you are talking 4,5,6+ acres of pavement with piling areas all at 1 end.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

snocrete;1975663 said:


> Im surprised to see so much resistance on this structure...I've had a few accounts set up this way for 11yrs. Never once has there been an issue...and never have I felt it wasn't working.


The only thing I hate more than a per inch account is an hourly account. I get punished for investing money in being more efficient. Makes no sense.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

John_DeereGreen;1975726 said:


> The only thing I hate more than a per inch account is an hourly account. *I get punished for investing money in being more efficient*. Makes no sense.


As for hourly, I agree


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

snocrete;1975663 said:


> Well, either you were lying about the amount, or your contract wasn't worded correctly, to cover you, in the event that most areas around you got less. I/contract doesn't rely on 1 source or method of determining amounts. On site is the ultimate decider though, if needed.....and again, I've never had a problem. I have a mixture of accounts that are set up this way, per push, hourly, & seasonal. Hopefully, over the next few yrs, I have "about" a 50/50 split of seasonal & inch increment/per push....hourly I could do without. To each their own.


It was early in my career and I stated..not written that I would measure and make the call.

I dropped them after that. They have had lousy service ever since. I do two jobs next to them.


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## flyguyirvin65 (Feb 18, 2015)

John_DeereGreen;1975415 said:


> I hate these per inch bids. Nothing but an argument waiting to happen. If that's how they want it then you have no choice but to comply but any time possible we bid for 2-4 inches. Every 2-4 inches it gets scraped and they pay that price.
> 
> Good luck.


I like the way you think, It makes things a lot simpler


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

On a Call;1975458 said:


> After seeing the photos you are experienced how long would it take for you to remove 4 inches ?


I was going to ask this but deleted it. Now that is has been said. You need to ask yourself could I do this lot with my equipment if it snowed 10 inch of wet snow? And keep up with my other accounts? 
I think that place it close to or into Loader territory.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

maxwellp;1975897 said:


> I was going to ask this but deleted it. Now that is has been said. You need to ask yourself could I do this lot with my equipment if it snowed 10 inch of wet snow? And keep up with my other accounts?
> I think that place it close to or into Loader territory.


If this is a trucking facility no way it should ever get to 10", let alone over 4".


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## flyguyirvin65 (Feb 18, 2015)

Sorry for misunderstanding, marked area is what Im bidding on. It will take one truck 4 hours to push.
I have 3 trucks and a bobcat so yes I have the equipment to handle 10 inchs of wet snow


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

flyguyirvin65;1975880 said:


> I like the way you think, It makes things a lot simpler


I hate overcomplicating stuff that should be simple.

I can't think of a single account I've ever had that would be even remotely ok with 10+ inches of snow built up on their property before it's cleared the first time.

Yes, I understand some storms hammer the snow harder than you can keep the entire lot clear. But there's no reason to leave the whole property sit and let that much snow fall before it's cleared the first time.

We bill the couple per push accounts that we have set up like I said, 2-4 inch pricing and push it every 2-4 inches a reduced rate for driving lanes to keep the lot open. Then they pay for a full plowing/salting after close for cleanup.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Double post


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## ratherbfishin (Aug 1, 2011)

snocrete;1975839 said:


> As for hourly, I agree





John_DeereGreen;1976409 said:


> I hate overcomplicating stuff that should be simple.
> 
> I can't think of a single account I've ever had that would be even remotely ok with 10+ inches of snow built up on their property before it's cleared the first time.
> 
> ...


Exactly how I price my lots though some have chastised me for"reduced rate" thing!
As far as OP post goes....$325.00 for a 4 hr./1 truck push. Sounds low to me, at least in my neck of the woods. Consider paying a driver, insurance, fuel, cutting edge/maintenance, cost of equipment, etc. I'll stay home...thanks!


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

ratherbfishin;1977350 said:


> Exactly how I price my lots though some have chastised me for"reduced rate" thing!


Yep, I've heard it too. But I don't see why the customer should pay for a full plowing if they're not getting anywhere close to that.

Again, this is why I love our seasonal accounts. No fighting or arguing over how to invoice certain storms that we clear driving lanes 3 or 4 times, and then the whole lot overnight. The lanes stay clear, the lot is clean the next morning, and they don't see a bill for multiple services in a 12 hour period.


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