# A small mall >need some help to bid



## Dumpster Guy (Oct 9, 2008)

I will be bidding this one on a per push rate.

It has about 70,000 Square feet of asphalt. I can do the math on shoveling the walks and stairs. But what about the numbers below

Plowing with a small bobcat and 5500 with a blizzard 860 speed wing. 
Salting with a snow-ex 1875 tailgater.

*Plowing 3hrs?
salting 1.5 hours including loading the tailgate*?

*Salt for just paved area 1400 pounds?*

Should I add an hour to deal with the random late night mall user traffic?


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## Sealer People (Nov 16, 2008)

if something took me 4 hours in total to do, I would probably try for $320 - $350 each shot 

I would say about a yard of salt $ 175 ???????

Im just getting into this business so im not the best at this im sure. But i dont think im too far off.

good luck


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## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

if it is going to take you four hours you need more vehicles there.

Four hours is a long time to be at one place unless it is just an employee there for you. if you only are there for four hours each time just charge them your hourly rate times four hours.

As for salt it all depends on your price.


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## Dumpster Guy (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks for the reply. I think our rates are real different because we don't see the frequency. There are many people who just simply are not ready for it when it happens, most contractors are not willing to get the proper ins, because it might never snow here. Our rates are over $150 per hour and salt @ $375 per tonne spread

How long to plow?
How long to salt?

I drove the lot as if I was plowing ad came up with these numbers, I don't have the experience to know how long to estimate and the hidden time killers?


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

I have a lot that is exactly 70,000 sq ft and it takes me an hour and fifteen minutes. 1000 lbs of salt and then what ever it takes you to do the walks. hope this helps...Why does it take guys on here so long to load a tailgate salt spreader. I mean I can load ten bags in a minute or so and spread it in 5.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

if 70,000 straightforward square feet takes you 3 hours, you might think about trying something else..
Shouldn't take much over an hour, at most 1.5 hours to plow

Multiply times your rate.


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## Dumpster Guy (Oct 9, 2008)

Burkartsplow & Brian Thanks!
That's what i needed to understand sounds like 1.5 hours to plow Just to double check that is with just the plow right?


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

1 truck, 8' with wings or better (like oh, say your blizzard ) 1 to 1.5 hours to plow

probably 10 minutes to salt, but that's just a guess, we don't salt here.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ScnicExcellence;640284 said:


> if it is going to take you four hours you need more vehicles there.
> 
> Four hours is a long time to be at one place unless it is just an employee there for you. if you only are there for four hours each time just charge them your hourly rate times four hours.
> 
> As for salt it all depends on your price.


Why is 4 hours too long for one truck? Doesn't it totally depend on the requirements\level of service that the customer is desiring?

On edit, never mind, I checked your profile, I've been enlightened.

I have several lots that take 4 hours to plow, with a loader and 16' pusher box. Add in setup time for a truck in that time, but it really hasn't been an issue for me. But I've only been plowing a couple years, so what do I know?

Dumpsterguy, listen to Brian and burk, their estimates sound pretty good to me.

On edit--DEFINITELY follow Brian and burk's advice. And don't let anyone tell you that 4 hours is ALWAYS too long for one piece of equipment, it may be, and it may not be.

Good luck.


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

Dumpster Guy;640644 said:


> Burkartsplow & Brian Thanks!
> That's what i needed to understand sounds like 1.5 hours to plow Just to double check that is with just the plow right?


Yeah with the plow only.8.5 with wings about an hour and half. Now the walks and the salting is up to you, But for the lot i was thinking somewhere around 1000 to 1200 lbs will do nicely for most applications. Good luck on it. Love those late request for bid packets.:salute: Im tired. was out doing a leaf cleanup. We have been having little spits here and there in cleveland the last couple of days. Only 6 more cleanups to go. I just need three semi decent days and i will be done....


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

I imputted the numbers into my calculator and heres what comes out

Plowing 
2"-4" 4"-6" 6"-8" 8"-12" 
8' Blade 2:26 3:03 3:40 4:16 
8' w/wings 2:20 *3:02 *3:32 4:03 
9' Blade 1:58 2:27 2:56 3:32 
9' w/wings 1:46* 2:21* 2:44 3:25 
10' Pushbox 0:56 1:15 1:24 1:46

Tons Lbs. Bags 
Salt 0.47 945 18.9

I would say that you speedwing would be more like a 9ft with wings vs an 8ft with wings cause arent they 8ft 6in?
Then you have your bobcat making your life alot easier in the truck cause he is squareing things off so you can take longer runs ect and because of this I would say
1.5 Hours for the Truck including the spreading and 1 Hour for the bobcat. That way any obsticles are covered and you get a better average covered on the snow falls

If its a highly shadded area then I would up the salt 100lbs but if the sun hits the property like it looks like it does, then I would say you will have lots of salt.

I dont charge a fee per hour to spread the salt I just charge per ton to spread or per application on the lot, spread.


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## Dumpster Guy (Oct 9, 2008)

MIDTOWNPC> Thanks for the awsome reply!

Where do I get one of those calculators?

Yes the speedwing is 8ft7 when straight and 9'3 with the wings pinned back. 

Great reply and thanks for taking the time to work it out, someday soon I hope to help some rookie going through the same things I am going through. This site is great because of guys like youMIDTOWNPC, Burkartsplow, Mark Oomkes ,lonecowboy and all the rest of you guys I am spending good money on equipment and trying make as few mistakes as possible. We see so few snow falls here I need to be on when it does happen. Thanks again! 

What happened to that wanker "dimitrious" did hey find the wrong end of a snowblower?


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## MnM (Sep 23, 2005)

just wondering why you went with a 860 speedwing compaired to a 8611lp or 8611. I just put a 8611lp on my 3500 and all I can say is what a beast


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## Dumpster Guy (Oct 9, 2008)

- That extra 295 pounds (i have a bunch of other things pushing my GVW limits)
- The extra money 
- 860SW was in stock, I actually don't get it installed until Friday (i will post pics) 
- simple opperation
- I am a rookie. 

Do you think he extra 7" is worth it? (my wife does!)

We may only get 8 Plowable events per year. (more salting though)
How does that plow work with a 1ton? thought that would be a monster in wet snow?


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

MIDTOWNPC;640864 said:


> I imputted the numbers into my calculator and heres what comes out
> 
> Plowing
> 2"-4" 4"-6" 6"-8" 8"-12"
> ...


those plowing hours are off. if you got them from the MD


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

MIDTOWNPC;640864 said:


> I imputted the numbers into my calculator and heres what comes out
> 
> Plowing
> 2"-4" 4"-6" 6"-8" 8"-12"
> ...


those plowing hours are off. if you got them from the MD snow removal site.which is what they look like dont follow them. if it takes over two hours to plow 70K with an 8.5 blade then you very unproductive. think about it as an acre an hour or a little more then an acre, depending on experience. hope you get it. put two hours worth of work if you think you need a buffer.


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

It depends on your area. But I try and figure about $100 or a little more per acre. So you have almost 2 acres to plow. So I would charge right around $200 to plow that, because you may have to come back and cleanup or something like that. I think if you have a skid and your truck there, it won't take you more than an hour, unless you let an unreasonable amount of snow pile up. Oh and another thing, you may want to figure more like $150 per acre or so, since that is your hourly cost. Good luck


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## LawnProLandscapes (Nov 15, 2007)

i agree, rule of them 1 acre/hour with one truck w/8 ft. blade on a mostly straight forward lot.


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

LoneCowboy;640670 said:


> probably 10 minutes to salt, but that's just a guess, we don't salt here.


Thats funny, I just bought a used vee-pro salter and I'm 40 miles from you.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

I actually found the code from mdsnowremoval site and had my web guy save it to a computer for me to use. It has been pretty acurate, (no one said I can't outperform it) and sure an acre and hour is resonable however I have always priced with the numbers I stated because it leaves you with a buffer for the random 3 cars in the lot, or if you get 12 events at 2inces vs 6 events at 1ft. The time that I stated is my mark, if I can out perform my mark then good for me, it means I have a little more time. I also use that calulator and have found that with my bobcat and my truck on the same site that the times are very accurate (the bobcat is slower and the truck is faster) and so it has worked very well for me. As the larger snowfalls come I have found the numbers are off but that is why I always use the middle number as my average. I figure with the law of averages I have a solid safe bet. I base my prices on the hourly rate that I want to make. 
So what I stated in my reply was 
*1.5 Hours for the Truck including the spreading and 1 Hour for the bobcat.*
those are what I would base my billing at. So take the hourly rate you want for each machine and do the math.

This has worked for me for 4 years, I give a price this way and then I give the option for a seasonal and I base it upon 25 events. They can choose. When I price salt, I give the price at per event. Sometimes it needs more sometimes it needs less. There is lots of room on salt.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

MIDTOWNPC;641705 said:


> I actually found the code from mdsnowremoval site and had my web guy save it to a computer for me to use. It has been pretty acurate, (no one said I can't outperform it) and sure an acre and hour is resonable however I have always priced with the numbers I stated because it leaves you with a buffer for the random 3 cars in the lot, or if you get 12 events at 2inces vs 6 events at 1ft. The time that I stated is my mark, if I can out perform my mark then good for me, it means I have a little more time. I also use that calulator and have found that with my bobcat and my truck on the same site that the times are very accurate (the bobcat is slower and the truck is faster) and so it has worked very well for me. As the larger snowfalls come I have found the numbers are off but that is why I always use the middle number as my average. I figure with the law of averages I have a solid safe bet. I base my prices on the hourly rate that I want to make.
> So what I stated in my reply was
> *1.5 Hours for the Truck including the spreading and 1 Hour for the bobcat.*
> those are what I would base my billing at. So take the hourly rate you want for each machine and do the math.
> ...


Great for you, but if I tried bidding at those rates, I'd be sleeping in a nice warm bed all winter long and missing out on all the fun.

Personally, I'd fire someone if it took them an hour to plow an easy acre, even with an 8' blade.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

bladescape2;641507 said:


> Thats funny, I just bought a used vee-pro salter and I'm 40 miles from you.


I've been plowing Denver/Boulder/Longmont (at different times) area since 1993 for a couple different companies and myself., I've never once thrown salt.

i've thrown a 90% gravel/10% salt mix on lots occasionally, but never salt.

never seen it done either.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;641767 said:


> Great for you, but if I tried bidding at those rates, I'd be sleeping in a nice warm bed all winter long and missing out on all the fun.
> 
> Personally, I'd fire someone if it took them an hour to plow an easy acre, even with an 8' blade.


that's exactly right. Your times may be fine and you might "beat the benchmark"
But you didn't get the job because someone using a tighter formula underbid you and they still made money.

And if you don't think tighter bids are coming...


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

Ok I see what you guys mean by the fact that I might not get the bid becasue of my formula, but it has worked and I know that might just be my area or it might be that Im using a different varible in the amount per hour. 

I think you can push 2 to 4 inches 1 acre in an hour but once you get more then that its going to take longer, with the same blade/setup we all know that, so I would caution only on the average in which you think you get in your area for a snow fall. 

WIth that calculator the computer assums that all the snow is pushed to only 2 ends of the square. If you use lanes and measurements it gets pretty acurate. 

I guess in a way I am also trying to say that caution yourself on the fact that its not going to be a perfect square and your time will get throw off beause of that.

I appoligise if these numbers have messed you up however they do work for me and Im getting lots of business because of them. 

I am sure tighter bids are comming and I understand now where you guys are comming from.

So what did you end up bidding and how did you come across to your final number. 

Does the cheapest always get the job?
Around here that is not the case, but dont move to cobourg and start pushing I like my monopoly


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## Dumpster Guy (Oct 9, 2008)

Well it turns out I am going to get this contract based on 2 hours to plow and $375 to salt. A funny turn of events that started with a post 
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=68813 
has led me not to get the plow installed yet, just the salter. 
Could I do this whole lot with a small 1 speed John Deer 313 with a 6ft blade?
Pls remember we don;t get snow often hear. I thinking of delaying the blade purchase until next season for the truck. I guess I better change my signature for now. We may see snow as early as next week!


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

so you are goin per push then? 

good to hear you got it. 

I would get the blade on the truck cause you need a backup.


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## Dumpster Guy (Oct 9, 2008)

Midtownpc> Thanks for the info, I am taking your advice and getting the plow back(friday install) they sold my 860 SW but i am now getting the Blizzard 810 powerplow. 

I got the contract perpush @ $340 and $375 per tonne of salt spread (if I have to return $340 again). I should be salting for the first time this week, then it's supposed to warm-up for a while.


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## Shadetree Ltd. (Mar 31, 2002)

Bret,

I am local to you and would be willing to help with advice and subbing work.

Scott


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