# Revenue, number of accounts and ivvestor questions



## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

Hi everyone, just a couple of questions.
I'll be starting my business next winter starting with snow and transitioning to mowing in 2022.

Revenue and accounts:
How many residential accounts did you build up to your 1st winter?
How much revenue did those residentials bring in?

I know some of you are going to say go commercial or go home. No. Ive made my decision, I've only got a 2017 Sierra 1500, not big enough for commercials, and not its not going to be easy for me to trade it in for a bigger truck. So im focusing on reaidentials.

So for anyone doing a good amount of residentials or have done them, im looking for a goal to have in mind. Not sure what a feasible number is.

Investor:
I have a good friend of mine who wants to help with my startup cost and recurring expenses and work with me. I worked with him a few years ago as his manager at WeedMan for 2 years. He's a great worker, takes pride in his work, has great attention to detail, easy to trail, not once in 2 years as I did quality control on his jobs have I ever had to send him back, no customer complaints about him, several customer compliments about being nice afmnd polite and having detailed explanations about what he's doing and why. He says he can save up about $2,500 maybe more by the time next winter comes around to throw into the company.
What would you pay him?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

First year in the snow business I started with a shovel, I think I had 2 or 3 neighbors, graduated to a snowblower I purchased at a garage sale on sale for 20$ then got a garden tractor, then a plow truck, now I have a second plow truck.
What anyone would pay a 2500$ Would be completely different as we all
Have different valuations of our company. 
you can service small commercial properties with that set up, and the way to make the most profit is to have route density, you don’t make any money driving around.


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

BossPlow2010 said:


> First year in the snow business I started with a shovel, I think I had 2 or 3 neighbors, graduated to a snowblower I purchased at a garage sale on sale for 20$ then got a garden tractor, then a plow truck, now I have a second plow truck.
> What anyone would pay a 2500$ Would be completely different as we all
> Have different valuations of our company.
> you can service small commercial properties with that set up, and the way to make the most profit is to have route density, you don't make any money driving around.


I'll me servicing 3 small towns i live in the middle. 1 is 5 miles west 1 is 5 miles east. Total in town area is 4.44 square miles. Total number of houses between the 3 towns is 2991.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JakeG said:


> Investor:
> I have a good friend of mine who wants to help with my startup cost and recurring expenses and work with me. I worked with him a few years ago as his manager at WeedMan for 2 years. He's a great worker, takes pride in his work, has great attention to detail, easy to trail, not once in 2 years as I did quality control on his jobs have I ever had to send him back, no customer complaints about him, several customer compliments about being nice afmnd polite and having detailed explanations about what he's doing and why. He says he can save up about $2,500 maybe more by the time next winter comes around to throw into the company.
> What would you pay him?


I'm confused - are you hiring an employee or looking for a business partner?

Assuming the former, why would he be paying you anything?

Assuming the latter, you are giving up part of your company to someone who needs a year to save up $2500 to buy in?


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

JakeG said:


> I'll be starting my business next winter starting with snow and transitioning to mowing in 2022
> 
> You are going to be marketing and signing up snow customers in the summer and fall for winter 2021?
> How are you going to pay your bills during that time?





JakeG said:


> How many residential accounts did you build up to your 1st winter?
> 
> 15
> How much revenue did those residentials bring in?
> ...





JakeG said:


> I know some of you are going to say go commercial or go home.
> 
> Why? Those accounts are often bid, and there is always some new guy with no clue bidding them way too low.





JakeG said:


> So for anyone doing a good amount of residentials or have done them, im looking for a goal to have in mind.
> 
> Your going to need enough of them to cover your expenses . Do you do a monthly budget now? Then you would know what you need.
> Then you need to figure out what you can charge in your area for different residential accounts.
> ...


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

JakeG said:


> I have a good friend of mine who wants to help with my startup cost and recurring expenses and work with me
> 
> Someone who contributes to a business and works in the business sounds like a partner to me.
> I know,it wouldn't have to be.
> ...





JakeG said:


> He says he can save up about $2,500 maybe more by the time next winter comes around to throw into the company
> 
> Good for him,saving money seems to be viewed as old fashioned these days.
> How much are you going to be saving to put into this adventure in that time?





JakeG said:


> What would you pay him?
> 
> That would depend on what you figure out about whether or not he's a partner and how active he is.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm confused - are you hiring an employee or looking for a business partner?
> 
> Assuming the former, why would he be paying you anything?
> 
> Assuming the latter, you are giving up part of your company to someone who needs a year to save up $2500 to buy in?


I'm having a hard time understanding this as well.

Is he loaning the money to you and you are paying him back with interest? You could draw up a promissory note to be due in xx months with xx% interest.

You said you have a 1500 sierra. Is there a plow on it, or you're using it to haul blowers, etc?

What equipment do you have?

Here's a thought: you could try to get some sidewalk and driveway accounts, but another angle would be to sub for someone else.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

EWSplow said:


> I'm having a hard time understanding this as well.
> 
> Is he loaning the money to you and you are paying him back with interest? You could draw up a promissory note to be due in xx months with xx% interest.


I'm guessing he plans on having his buddy throw some money at him and they will "share" the company as a result. That is bad in so many different ways I don't know where to start.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm guessing he plans on having his buddy throw some money at him and they will "share" the company as a result. That is bad in so many different ways I don't know where to start.


I see that friendship going to s*** in a hurry.

Even burrowing from a friend is a bad idea, but not quite as bad.

OP, I noticed you're from Wisconsin. What area?


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm confused - are you hiring an employee or looking for a business partner?
> 
> Assuming the former, why would he be paying you anything?
> 
> Assuming the latter, you are giving up part of your company to someone who needs a year to save up $2500 to buy in?


Not a business partner on paper. The LLC is in my name. I filed the Articles of Organization and put everything in my name long before he even came forward and said he'd like to go in on this with me.
At the start, as he has a part-time job that he will be keeping until my/our business has full-time work, he will be working his part-time job and says everything he can put into my business he would like to put into it. What's that make him? (Please don't make me feel any dumber, I'm new to this. I thought I'd figure everything out on my own, but then he came forward, and has been helping me figure some stuff out, and is willing to put money into the company.)
Neither of us has much money saved up, so we're both working as much as we can this spring, summer, and fall, and saving as much as we can to put into the business we both want to start. What's that make him you want to know? Good question? A business partner it sounds like to me. Which I'm ok with, but how do I make it official on paper?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JakeG said:


> Not a business partner on paper. The LLC is in my name. I filed the Articles of Organization and put everything in my name long before he even came forward and said he'd like to go in on this with me.
> At the start, as he has a part-time job that he will be keeping until my/our business has full-time work, he will be working his part-time job and says everything he can put into my business he would like to put into it. What's that make him? (Please don't make me feel any dumber, I'm new to this. I thought I'd figure everything out on my own, but then he came forward, and has been helping me figure some stuff out, and is willing to put money into the company.)
> Neither of us has much money saved up, so we're both working as much as we can this spring, summer, and fall, and saving as much as we can to put into the business we both want to start. What's that make him you want to know? Good question? A business partner it sounds like to me. Which I'm ok with, but how do I make it official on paper?


If he isn't purchasing a stake in your company - i.e., sharing in assests, profits, ownership of corporate shares, etc. then the business term for that relationship is "sucker"

He would essentially be gifting you cash, like a beloved uncle, while receiving nothing in return. Ask him to put the cash in a nice birthday card.


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

@
*jonniesmooth*



> You are going to be marketing and signing up snow customers in the summer and fall for winter 2021?
> How are you going to pay your bills during that time?


I'll be working this year for another company and saving as much as I can. I'll still be working while I run my marketing campaign probably in October maybe sooner? I'm trying to buy everything I need with a cash/debit card and not finance except for the mowers and maybe the trailer but those won't happen until near the end of winter. Everything else I can buy outright no problem. Truck payment will be my worry, but I should be able to save enough money to make it until I get some customers and pray for snow. Maybe get an understanding part-time job over winter that will let me off when it snows.


> JakeG said:
> I know some of you are going to say go commercial or go home.
> 
> Why? Those accounts are often bid, and there is always some new guy with no clue bidding them way too low


I don't want the extra expense of a plow my first year. Plus I only have a 2017 Sierra 1500. Not really built to handle a commercial lot, even with a plow designed for a 1500.


> How much hustle do you have?


What do you mean by hustle?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

You need to talk to a lawyer and a CPA.


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

@jonniesmooth



> JakeG said:
> He says he can save up about $2,500 maybe more by the time next winter comes around to throw into the company
> 
> Good for him,saving money seems to be viewed as old fashioned these days.
> How much are you going to be saving to put into this adventure in that time?


Depends. I need $8,143 for what I need to buy yet, but this does not include insurance which I'm still getting quotes on. (Any advice on who gives the best rates?) That includes extra parts for my 2 Toro 721 RC's, all my marketing supplies, gas, truck payments through the winter, gas cans, buckets for salt, shovels, a few other items. I should be able to easily buy all that throughout this spring, summer, and early fall. I'm not sure how much money I'll have leftover. Probably not much after paying insurance.


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

EWSplow said:


> I'm having a hard time understanding this as well.
> 
> Is he loaning the money to you and you are paying him back with interest? You could draw up a promissory note to be due in xx months with xx% interest.
> 
> ...


I'm sure if he ever leaves the business, we will discuss a payout depending on what the business is worth at the time and how much money he has put into it.

Yes, I have a 2017 Sierra 1500, it's a luxury truck, not a work truck. Boss, Western, and Snowdogg make a plow designed for a 1500, but the 1500 isn't built to plow out large commercial lots, that's why I want small residentials. I don't have a plow on it now, and I'm probably not putting one on it for a few years. I'll likely get a 3/4 ton or 1 ton for a plow truck in the future.

I have 2 Toro 721 RC's that I bought used from a company that went under in Madison. Got them for $360 each.

How do you go about finding sub work? Contact different companies and ask about sub work or do they advertise for it?


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm guessing he plans on having his buddy throw some money at him and they will "share" the company as a result. That is bad in so many different ways I don't know where to start.


I'm listening.
Why is that bad?
What should we do differently?


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

EWSplow said:


> I see that friendship going to s*** in a hurry.
> 
> Even burrowing from a friend is a bad idea, but not quite as bad.
> 
> OP, I noticed you're from Wisconsin. What area?


Assuming you meant were, not what.
I'm in a tiny little town about 30 minutes west of Madison, 20 minutes west of Middleton.
You?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

JakeG said:


> I'm sure if he ever leaves the business, we will discuss a payout depending on what the business is worth at the time and how much money he has put into it.
> 
> Yes, I have a 2017 Sierra 1500, it's a luxury truck, not a work truck. Boss, Western, and Snowdogg make a plow designed for a 1500, but the 1500 isn't built to plow out large commercial lots, that's why I want small residentials. I don't have a plow on it now, and I'm probably not putting one on it for a few years. I'll likely get a 3/4 ton or 1 ton for a plow truck in the future.
> 
> ...


Then why did you carry on about not using the 1500 to plow commercially when you're not even gonna plow residentially with it.

You don't have a cart and you don't have a horse yet and you're dreaming about some guy gifting you some money and wanting nothing in return


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

JakeG said:


> @
> *jonniesmooth*
> 
> I'll be working this year for another company and saving as much as I can. I'll still be working while I run my marketing campaign probably in October maybe sooner? I'm trying to buy everything I need with a cash/debit card and not finance except for the mowers and maybe the trailer but those won't happen until near the end of winter. Everything else I can buy outright no problem. Truck payment will be my worry, but I should be able to save enough money to make it until I get some customers and pray for snow. Maybe get an understanding part-time job over winter that will let me off when it snows.
> ...


Go back and read all my answers to your questions.
How many 36 hour days are you willing to work to make it happen?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JakeG said:


> I'm listening.
> Why is that bad?


Storm #1, you make $1000. Your "business partner" does nothing. How much do you owe him? What do you mean "nothing"? You are "partners" so you must plan on splitting the $1000 50/50 with him, correct? Or were you expecting _him _to plow for 40 hours and you pay for $15/hr and you pocket the profit?

Storm #2, your plow breaks. The bill is $750. Who pays for it? 50/50? Why would your partner pay for a repair on a plow when he just contributed $2500?

Storm #3, your Chevy 1500 engine blows up. How do you split up the repair costs for it? Is the truck a company truck or your personal truck?

End of the season, you sell your 2017 Chevy 1500. You are splitting that money with your partner as you dissolve the company cuz it isn't working out. Right?



JakeG said:


> What should we do differently?


Talk to a CPA and attorney, just as @Hydromaster said


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

JakeG said:


> @jonniesmooth
> 
> Depends. I need $8,143 for what I need to buy yet, but this does not include insurance which I'm still getting quotes on. (Any advice on who gives the best rates?) That includes extra parts for my 2 Toro 721 RC's, all my marketing supplies, gas, truck payments through the winter, gas cans, buckets for salt, shovels, a few other items. I should be able to easily buy all that throughout this spring, summer, and early fall. I'm not sure how much money I'll have leftover. Probably not much after paying insurance.


Marketing supplies? Ad campaign? I think you're dreaming to big...baby steps. 
From what I understand, you're trying to start a service business that will have one employee, you. 
I've been in and out of this business a few times. 
The last time I started with a 3/4 ton truck i owned without payments, a commercial snow blower I happened to own and enough expendable cash to buy a used plow. 1st i got the commercial auto insurance and liability in place, then told my neighbor who owned the corner bar i was looking for new accounts. I also did some subbing. 
Word of mouth is better than any advertising you can buy.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

JakeG said:


> @jonniesmooth
> 
> Depends. I need $8,143 for what I need to buy yet, but this does not include insurance which I'm still getting quotes on. (Any advice on who gives the best rates?) That includes extra parts for my 2 Toro 721 RC's, all my marketing supplies, gas, truck payments through the winter, gas cans, buckets for salt, shovels, a few other items. I should be able to easily buy all that throughout this spring, summer, and early fall. I'm not sure how much money I'll have leftover. Probably not much after paying insurance.


Find an independent agent who can shop several different companies. 
I have been very happy with Grinnell for over 23 years.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

So you are working now for what kind of company?
In a related field? What did you sign when they hired you?
All the landscape companies here have a non compete clause,so their employees can't steal side jobs from them. They generally go a year or two after termination of employment.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

JakeG said:


> Assuming you meant were, not what.
> I'm in a tiny little town about 30 minutes west of Madison, 20 minutes west of Middleton.
> You?


Mt horib? Bluemound? Barneveld?

Maybe contact realtors, property management companies, etc. You don't want accounts scattered all over creation though.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

I’ll loan you 8k for 58% of your business 
Then after the 8k is paid it will drop to 51%.

With $3 a drive and $20 a lot paid to me perpetuity..


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Hydromaster said:


> I'll loan you 8k for 58% of your business
> Then after the 8k is paid it will drop to 51%.


If a payment is missed, then what?


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Hydromaster said:


> I'll loan you 8k for 58% of your business
> Then after the 8k is paid it will drop to 51%.
> 
> With $3 a drive and $20 a lot paid to me perpetuity..


You've been watching too much shark tank...mr wonderful.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

cwren2472 said:


> If a payment is missed, then what?


Then I sell the business.

I'm not looking to buy a job
I'm not looking to collect a salary.
If he wishes to work the business and collect a salary that would probably be in his best interest

owners don't have to work the job.
Of course a yearly dividend for the owners of the business, will also have be agreed-upon.


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

JakeG said:


> What would you pay him?


6-10% is the industry standard. You need to decide if the money he's lending you is a loan or if he's buying equity in your company. I would make it a loan. Depending on the terms, a $2500 loan will probably cost you between $450-$650 dollars spread out over a few years. On the other hand, if you give him 10% equity in your company for $2500, and let's say you profit $15000 your first year, that's going to cost you $1500. And you'll have to do the same thing next year. And next. (it's not always that cut and dried but you get the picture) Plus he gets a 10%say in everything the business does.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I’ll loan you 8k for 57% of your business
Then after the 8k is paid it will drop to 50.9%.

With $3 a drive and $20 a lot paid to me perpetuity..

Plus I have the cash in hand, and I'm in Milwaukee to the weekend.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

1olddogtwo said:


> I'll loan you 8k for 57% of your business
> Then after the 8k is paid it will drop to 50.9%.
> 
> With $3 a drive and $20 a lot paid to me perpetuity..
> ...





JakeG said:


> @jonniesmooth
> 
> Depends. I need $8,143 for what I need to buy yet, but this does not include insurance which I'm still getting quotes on. (Any advice on who gives the best rates?) That includes extra parts for my 2 Toro 721 RC's, all my marketing supplies, gas, truck payments through the winter, gas cans, buckets for salt, shovels, a few other items. I should be able to easily buy all that throughout this spring, summer, and early fall. I'm not sure how much money I'll have leftover. Probably not much after paying insurance.


you can get startup loans, and grants the the SBA, and if you're a minority or in a hud zone, they like that.
Or even go to your bank, since you're a new business, you'll have to personally guarantee everything, so hopefully you have good credit.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

1olddogtwo said:


> I'll loan you 8k for 57% of your business
> Then after the 8k is paid it will drop to 50.9%.
> 
> With $3 a drive and $20 a lot paid to me perpetuity..
> ...


An actual photo of $8k is really committing to the gag. I highly admire that kind of dedication.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

So how old are you?
When asked about expenses and budget.
You talked about the business expenses. 
What about YOUR expenses?
Rent/ mortgage 
Food
Clothes
Utilities
Insurance, did Biden reinstate the mandate in one of his many xo's?
You didn't mention any of these,which makes me think you are young.
The younger you are the harder (and more expensive) contractor liability insurance will be.
Even if you live at home with your parents and don't have these expenses now,you need to price your work so that you do take enough home to live on for real.
There is a huge difference between having a good paying job (I don't mean working for somebody else) and having a successful business.


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

jonniesmooth said:


> So how old are you?
> When asked about expenses and budget.
> You talked about the business expenses.
> What about YOUR expenses?
> ...


I'm 32, in Feb. Ill turn 33.
I moved back in with my parents about 2 years ago because I dug myself into a hole I couldn't get out of while paying a ridiculous amount for a small apartment. Decided to stick around and help mom and dad get out of their debt. Its a little embarrassing bmat my age, but they will never pay off this house and can't move somewhere cheaper because they owe more than its worth. So I pay what I can in rent, but usually I just cover food 1 or 2 times a month or or a utility bill. So about $250 a month paid to them.

Clothes I can expect to buy 1 or 2 pairs of new work pants a year. Once the old ones get holes in them or start looking really bad. So $75. Work shirts $50. I have plenty of everything else to last me years. But if I need to replace my Carharrt coat that's like $100.

I'll have to figure out personal health insurance yet. No idea what that costs, have 2 different agents looking for quotes for me.

Madison Wisconsin has a 7 month mowing season, and averages 15 plowable events per season. So working year is 7.5 months for mowing and plowing. If I can get an 8 route for snow, or more, that'd be nice, and if I maxed out and 8 hour route for mowing, every day, saving 1 day for a rain day.
That would put me in summer at my pay of $50 per hr x 8 hr route = $400 per day x 4 days $1600 x 4 weeks = $6400 month x 7 months = $44800 for the mowing season.
Add in snow of $50 hr x 8 hr route = $400 per event × 15 events = $6000 average per winter.

Puts me at $50800. Which is factored into my formula for figuring out my minimum price to charge customers.


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

EWSplow said:


> Mt horib? Bluemound? Barneveld?
> 
> Maybe contact realtors, property management companies, etc. You don't want accounts scattered all over creation though.


Black Earth and ill service Cross Plains 5 minutes east and Mazomanie 5 minutes west.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I know you have a job but what is preventing you from knocking on doors and starting your dream career right this minute?
When I got started I had very little of the expenses even worked out. Much like your parents all the planning and crunching of figures doesnt mean a darn thing if you arent earning to get the basics. You need to create cash flow, to show creditors value, your friend with $2500 is not a money tree nor is $8k plus royalties on jobs "YOU" did the hard work of selling....
Hit the pavement, and get to work. Not next year. Now! On the side if you have too, but its my belief that if you are going to go for it, it deserves your full attention.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

JakeG said:


> I'm 32, in Feb. Ill turn 33.
> I moved back in with my parents about 2 years ago because I dug myself into a hole I couldn't get out of while paying a ridiculous amount for a small apartment. Decided to stick around and help mom and dad get out of their debt. Its a little embarrassing bmat my age, but they will never pay off this house and can't move somewhere cheaper because they owe more than its worth. So I pay what I can in rent, but usually I just cover food 1 or 2 times a month or or a utility bill. So about $250 a month paid to them.
> 
> Clothes I can expect to buy 1 or 2 pairs of new work pants a year. Once the old ones get holes in them or start looking really bad. So $75. Work shirts $50. I have plenty of everything else to last me years. But if I need to replace my Carharrt coat that's like $100.
> ...


That's nothing to be embarrassed about.
I've been stupid with borrowing money twice before I figured it out.
What would be embarrassing is if you don't learn something from it so it doesn't happen again. 
Let me suggest a trip to YouTube to check out Dave Ramsey.

Are you sure you can charge enough per yard to get $50/hour.
Does your area support $25 for a 25 min yard?
That's 2 an hour plus drive time.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

JakeG said:


> Black Earth and ill service Cross Plains 5 minutes east and Mazomanie 5 minutes west.


There was another guy from black earth starting out last year. I know the area a little. Quite rural, but there are some big homes with long driveways scattered around. Some with steep hills. 
Heading toward cross plains isn't it more farms and open fields? I'm guessing there's quite a bit of drifting.
For snow, an 8 hour route is too much. Keep it around 6 hours. When there's heavy snow continuing to fall, it will take you 8 hours to do a 6 hour route and you'll have to start all over again, so that's 16 hours. People aren't going to be happy if they can't get out of their driveway to get to work, or in their driveway to get home. 
As Mr Marcus said, if you're serious, start looking for clients as soon as possible. 
Good luck.


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## NBRam1500 (Nov 22, 2019)

Jake is your real name ColT-Ee a few may get that joke .

On a serious note. 

Your first year don't plan on making any money.
I can guarantee you anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Whatever can break will break. Be thankful if you break even the first year. Whatever you think your costs are going to be double it. 

If you don't know the term hustle, keep your existing job. 

Every man/woman cat and dog try and do snow removal.
This is not just a job or a business. I refer to it as a lifestyle. Be prepared to be away on Christmas day, Valentine's Day, birthdays, and much more. If your going to commit to contracts your truck becomes your second house. 

Listen to the guys on this site . They all have some great advice.. listen is the key word here. There is a demand for snow and lawn care yes but you need to be willing to put in the work, be competitive but fair to the industry and yourself. 


Don't ever take/borrow money from a friend or family member.. Unless your prepared to lose them . 

With your set up go knocking on some doors get some sidewalk work. Condo buildings . Strip malls . Contact local property management companies. 

Your 1500 will more than handle some small commercial sites.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)




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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

Mr.Markus said:


> I know you have a job but what is preventing you from knocking on doors and starting your dream career right this minute?
> When I got started I had very little of the expenses even worked out. Much like your parents all the planning and crunching of figures doesnt mean a darn thing if you arent earning to get the basics. You need to create cash flow, to show creditors value, your friend with $2500 is not a money tree nor is $8k plus royalties on jobs "YOU" did the hard work of selling....
> Hit the pavement, and get to work. Not next year. Now! On the side if you have too, but its my belief that if you are going to go for it, it deserves your full attention.


I have a truck and 2 snow blowers. Shocels are cheap enough and so are gan cans for the snow blowers. I can buy salt by the bag for $7.25 from Site One. But I dont have $2000 to drop on insurance. Plus dont you think its a bit late in the season to start?
Ir are you talking about getting clients for mowing? Schofield Financial wants a minimum credit score of 600 for 10.99% for 36 months. Indont have the cash and wont have it by the time mowing starts. My credit score was 540 1 month ago. Since then I paid off 3 small credit cards. I have 1 personal loan $3400 and 1 credit card $3000 left to pay off. Since paying my small credit cards off, my credit score should get a decent jump when it updates. Then I'll be in a better situation to finance but still probably won't be 600.
I was going to work for The Bruce Company in hardscapes this summer and make as much money as I can to put towards marketing in the fall to start my business next winter. That will give me time to pay some of my personal loan and credit card off and get a better credit score by spring of 2022. Maybe I'll have enough to not have to finance mowers maybe not.


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

jonniesmooth said:


> That's nothing to be embarrassed about.
> I've been stupid with borrowing money twice before I figured it out.
> What would be embarrassing is if you don't learn something from it so it doesn't happen again.
> Let me suggest a trip to YouTube to check out Dave Ramsey.
> ...


If I can get my hands on a scag vride 2 32" I can get through gates and not have to push mow. Most lawns around here are under 10k sq ft. Can be in and out in under 15 minutes with 2 people.

I'll check out dave Ramsey. Any specific videos?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

JakeG said:


> I
> I was going to work for The Bruce Company in hardscapes this summer and make as much money as I can to put towards marketing in the fall to start my business next winter. That will give me time to pay some of my personal loan and credit card off and get a better credit score by spring of 2022. Maybe I'll have enough to not have to finance mowers maybe not.


I bet they have you sigen a nomcompeate clause as terms for your employment
This could limit your options for 2yrs


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

Hydromaster said:


> I bet they have you sigen a nomcompeate clause as terms for your employment
> This could limit your options for 2yrs


I have never once in 14 years of landscape, or 14 years of snow removal been asked to sign one.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

If you have 14 years of experience why are you asking about starting out with a 1500 and 2 snowblowers and living in moms basement.?

Landscapers, ones that have been around realize that people like you come in looking for a job just to gain experience and then they quit to start a landscape/Plowing business and when they do they solicit their
customers.

It’s very common


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

JakeG said:


> If I can get my hands on a scag vride 2 32" I can get through gates and not have to push mow. Most lawns around here are under 10k sq ft. Can be in and out in under 15 minutes with 2 people.
> 
> I'll check out dave Ramsey. Any specific videos?


15 minutes with 2 people is a half hour.
As for the Ramsey videos,the ones that you don't like what he is saying you should watch 3 or 4 times. If you.likr ehat he's saying twice is good.
Baby steps is a good start.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

jonniesmooth said:


> Baby steps is a good start.


there'san old saying "you need to learn to walk before you can run".


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

JakeG said:


> I have a truck and 2 snow blowers. Shocels are cheap enough and so are gan cans for the snow blowers. I can buy salt by the bag for $7.25 from Site One. But I dont have $2000 to drop on insurance. Plus dont you think its a bit late in the season to start?
> Ir are you talking about getting clients for mowing? Schofield Financial wants a minimum credit score of 600 for 10.99% for 36 months. Indont have the cash and wont have it by the time mowing starts. My credit score was 540 1 month ago. Since then I paid off 3 small credit cards. I have 1 personal loan $3400 and 1 credit card $3000 left to pay off. Since paying my small credit cards off, my credit score should get a decent jump when it updates. Then I'll be in a better situation to finance but still probably won't be 600.
> I was going to work for The Bruce Company in hardscapes this summer and make as much money as I can to put towards marketing in the fall to start my business next winter. That will give me time to pay some of my personal loan and credit card off and get a better credit score by spring of 2022. Maybe I'll have enough to not have to finance mowers maybe not.


If you can't pay cash for it,you can't afford it.
This is the learning from your past mistakes part.
Or are you just hoping to use the LLC to carry more debt?
Don't do it!

10.99% ? Run the other way.

Go watch Dave Ramsey now!


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

EWSplow said:


> there'san old saying "you need to learn to walk before you can run".


Even only the first 100'...?


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Even only the first 100'...?


Yes.
And you need to learn to run before you start dragracing.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

JakeG said:


> I have never once in 14 years of landscape, or 14 years of snow removal been asked to sign one.


Are you plowing snow now for someone, or are you laid off? Over here by the big lake, snow contractors are dyeing for guys to take care of their sidewalks. I would think you could put the snowblowers to use now with someone local. Perhaps not as a subcontractor, but as an employee, to avoid having to take out a commercial liability policy. If you're just sitting around for 5 months through winter collecting unemployment, you're going to have a hard time ever getting ahead.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

JakeG said:


> . Can be in and out in under 15 minutes with 2 people.


Here's my experience with adding a guy.
In some instances it's obviously time saving.
Ex. Spring and fall clean up, having a 2nd guy with the backback blower moving leaves where they can be picked up by the mower. When he's done with that he runs the leaf loader. Obvious time savings over 1 guy doing both. 
Ex. One guy trimming and blowing,other guy mowing.
In a perfect world they start and end at the same time.
What really happens, trim guy is done,he stands around and smokes ( even after you have asked him not to on client property or near gasoline powered eq.) Waiting for mow guy to finish. 
Or even worse, mow guy is done, loaded up ready to go trim guy is dwadeling along still not done.
Even worse'er, when 2nd guy doesn't show up and one guy has to do it all. And what takes other guy 25 minutes,takes him 15.


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

jonniesmooth said:


> If you can't pay cash for it,you can't afford it.
> This is the learning from your past mistakes part.
> Or are you just hoping to use the LLC to carry more debt?
> Don't do it!
> ...


Understood.
I just watched baby steps.
Good advice.


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## JakeG (Dec 22, 2020)

jomama45 said:


> Are you plowing snow now for someone, or are you laid off? Over here by the big lake, snow contractors are dyeing for guys to take care of their sidewalks. I would think you could put the snowblowers to use now with someone local. Perhaps not as a subcontractor, but as an employee, to avoid having to take out a commercial liability policy. If you're just sitting around for 5 months through winter collecting unemployment, you're going to have a hard time ever getting ahead.


I'm working for The Bruce Company on a sidewalk crew at $20.00 an hour. It's typically a 6 hour route but this last storm we hit everything 3 times and the 1st 2 times there was 2' drifts over everything so we had a 12 hour route. I do collect unemployment as well.

Where in WI are you?


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## NBRam1500 (Nov 22, 2019)

Get yourself some contracts , figure out what you need to make in the winter months. $10,000
$500 a driveway x 20 driveways
Snow blowing manually with two guys your going to be 10-15 min
travel time to next driveway so say 20 min each
That's 3 per hour
Your going to be out 6-7 hours per storm

Paying your helper $20 hour
120 per event

Pay your gas insurance maintenance
Say a snow blower breaks down

Average 15 events per year
You've paid your helper 1800 for the season roughly
That's $8200 in your pocket to pay your insurance
Gas maintenance etc

Next year get a plow
Now you can do 25-30 driveways in 6-7 hours
Pick up some sidewalk/walkways jobs for your helper to do while you plow
Residential walkways here pay average 125-200 for the season get ten of these on contract
Now that pays your helpers wages for the winter
Next year now that you know you don't want to drive to 25 different houses
Pick up a few small commercial lots
Each commercial lot compare to 4-5 residential
So now you only need 4 commercial lots and 5-10 residential driveways

Keep your route tight.

We service West and East part of our city
Half our route on one side
Gives us a nice coffee break while driving to the other side only 7-10 min drive . Everyone's feet get warm gloves get warm and do it all over again.

Hope I didn't lose you here

Start small baby steps
It's going to take you 2-3 years to make this a good business and get some contacts
Do a great job you won't have to waste a dime on advertising campaign unless your running for president.

Word of mouth is key

First step insurance insurance insurance


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

JakeG said:


> I'm working for The Bruce Company on a sidewalk crew at $20.00 an hour. It's typically a 6 hour route but this last storm we hit everything 3 times and the 1st 2 times there was 2' drifts over everything so we had a 12 hour route. I do collect unemployment as well.
> 
> Where in WI are you?


I was going towards this on one of my other posts.
You are going to bill $50/ hour
Are you going to bill per man hour?
Then my question would have been : " does your area support $50 for a 25 minute yard?"
Because you have just established th we going rate for a shovel monkey is $20/hour.
50-20=$30 per hour
And then you have to pay taxes and we and us for them too. So they are really making $23+ an hour.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

JakeG said:


> I'm working for The Bruce Company on a sidewalk crew at $20.00 an hour. It's typically a 6 hour route but this last storm we hit everything 3 times and the 1st 2 times there was 2' drifts over everything so we had a 12 hour route. I do collect unemployment as well.
> 
> Where in WI are you?


Maybe get started on the insurance. Here's why, even though you're working for a big landscape outfit, there might be a few people who have been doing their own, but need someone when they're on vacation, etc. They probably don't have to be done immediately. There's also vacant houses that don't get done, but suddenly the realtor wants to show it. 
Now, you've got your foot in the door. Also, you've already started the word of mouth advertising.


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