# Plow Just Won't move



## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

I have an electric solenoid western unimount plow (2000 ?) that was working fine. I was plowing, lifted the plow, backed up and tried to drop it and it wouldn't move. It wouldn't lower, or tilt left or right. I parked it, thinking maybe it froze up, as it was 10 degrees that night. Two days later the temp rose to 38 degrees for 3 days and it still wouldn't move, although the motor runs. I removed the motor, drained the fluid, cleaned the filter and put fresh fluid in it, still won't move, but motor runs. I then replaced the pump, still nothing. I swapped out the controller with a buddies and still no better. I checked power at the solenoids as the controller was activated and they had power as required. I removed the solenoids, bench tested them and all seem to work properly and coils were magnetized. I then put a pressure gauge in the plug above the manifold box and it shows ZERO pressure when the pump runs. The pump seems to bog down a bit as it runs, like something is blocking the fluid from moving. I removed the valve manifold block and pulled out the inlet check valve there and it was clean and appeared operable. I have not pulled out the poppet check valve or quill. Anybody got any ideas ??????


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok so you tested the power at the coils, what about the ground? If it won't lower, that kinda sounds electrical.


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

Yes i checked all grounds on the coils with an ohm meter, all were good. You can here the solenoids click when the motor is dis-connected and going through the test from the Western's Mechanic Manual. Soloenoid "one" has power and a proper ground when "down" on the controller is activated.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

You try a different controller


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok, use a test light, loose the meter it lies
Solenoid has gnd? It should have gnd anytime the motor isn't running


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Unimount mechanics guide, starting on page 17 from westerns website


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

Yes, sometimes the meter does lie. I also used a jumper directly from the negative side of the battery just to make sure. I also dis-connected the positive cable on the motor as the manual states (pg48) and tested the cartridge/coil activation. All coils had power and a magnetized field as required and you could here the solenoids clicking.


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

And yes, the controller was swapped out with a known working unit, no change, motor ran, no plow movement.


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

Also, the battery is new, charging system is putting out as it should, all battery connections are clean and tight and the 9 pin plug is new on plow side and truck side.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

I have had that happen ended up being the truck side wiring harness right at the plow


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## BIG NICKY (Aug 17, 2014)

If the pump is running. I would check all the poppet valves because they are not allowing fluid to move, especially if you here the relays and solenoids clicking. if fluid cant get through those valves the plow wont move. i guess that's where id start.


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

I replaced the plow & truck side harness today because it had what appeared to be a camper style "round" harness on it. There was some corrosion on the wires and i didn't like the way it was on there. So, $149.00 later, with new truck and plow 9 pin harness i still have the same problem. I have not checked the "poppet valves" but i should, one of the few items I haven't. Those seem to have round cap with a round hole in them. The manual says to hit them squarely with a hammer before removing. Anyone know if they pry out or twist out with threads ??


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

You pull them out with needle nose plies


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

The poppet valve COVERS, how do THEY come off ? Again the manual just says to hit them squarely with a hammer. Then what ? Pry off or twist off with vise grips ?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm pretty sure there 5/16 Allen head


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

:the electrical side of "lower"


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

Yeah, the cap for the poppet valve on the side is an allen head, the one on top is stripped out pretty bad, now it's just hole on the top of the cap. Good news is it sticks up far enough to be grabbed with a vise grip. Bad news is the pressure gauge is in the way and the only way to remove that is to remove the whole valve manifold block. SO... out I go to tear it apart again..........to be continued !!


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

WELL, I removed the poppet valve from the top and also the one from the side of the valve manifold box. Was sparkling clean and everything looked good. Still no plow movement, motor runs, that's all. All the local experts keep telling me it's something in my harness. I dis-agree. The wiring on the plow is simple really. A pair of jumper cables to the positive and negative on the motor, then 2 spades on each solenoid, one negative (which are all comnnected to the same ground) and the other on each unit the positive side, coming from the controller. The manual tells which should light up when the joystick is pressed, up down or angle, not rocket science. I did this with the jumper cables, motor ran, then i connected all 3 solenoids to the neg. on battery and put power to the solenoids that should of moved the rams and NOTHING.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

When you had the pump out did you check the pressure relief valve?


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

On the pump itself ? I replaced the entire pump with a new one.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Is that a yes or no? One or two post pump motor? Are you testing the plow pump with the lift chain hooked up? Are you sure the pump check valve is in correctly? 



If relief valve is missing pump will not build any pressure. On the two post plow motors if wires are hooked up backwards the spins backwards, no pressure. If lift chain is not connected, depending on quill setting, you may Jarrod before his subway diet to push lift arm back down.


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

No idea what you are trying to say. Yes the motor has two posts, poitive and negative. The plow was working properly then just stopped moving in any direction. Obviously the wires wern't reversed. As far as relief valve ? No idea what or where that is, since the Western Manual doesn't show such an item. The pump is NEW.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Brislo;1846902 said:


> No idea what you are trying to say. Yes the motor has two posts, poitive and negative. The plow was working properly then just stopped moving in any direction. Obviously the wires wern't reversed. As far as relief valve ? No idea what or where that is, since the Western Manual doesn't show such an item. The pump is NEW.


Just going thru some of issues I have seen.

You did have the thing apart to put new pump in correct? Relief valve is on side of pump next to filter. Pump needs to be removed to adjust. Also in the process of looking for original issue you could have solved a bad connection and created a new problem when replacing pump. I am guessing since you don't know where it is you can't say 100% that the relief valve was in the pump.

I do realize pump pressure has nothing to do with lower that is why I asked if lift chain was connected or if you were trying to push ram down by hand.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

http://library.westernplows.com/westernplows/pdffiles/13523_080092.pdf

Page 33 show position of relief valve.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

By not lowering, that infers that you lost power to s1. As kimber asked, is there NOW weight on the lift cylinder? Need weight to lower the ram


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

Kimber, that's the old model 2 piece pump which i don't have. Mine is the newer 3 piece pump. http://www.storksplows.com/docs/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Western-unimount-pump-manual.pdf
My pump relief valve is a bolt sticking up out of the oil and can be adjusted without removing the pump itself. We adjusted that...no help. Yes the chain has been connected during all the tests. dieselss...we put direct power to the solenoids as per manuals test procedure and still nothing. This power came directly from the battery along with the grounds. They click and while the motor is running and solenoids being energized, still no movement.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok since you had this all apart, have you used compressed air and blown through all the ports in the housing? 
I was going back.to when u originally said it stopped working.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

ok, If you remove S1 valve can you lower?


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

Yes i've blown air through it when it was apart, including the solenoids and check valves on inside of manifold. It's all clean with no gunk or anything else in there. With solenoid #1 removed, it didn't lower. During Feb, March, April, May, June and July, it has slowly dropped to the ground. There is still pressure on the chain though.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Brislo;1847037 said:


> Yes i've blown air through it when it was apart, including the solenoids and check valves on inside of manifold. It's all clean with no gunk or anything else in there. With solenoid #1 removed, it didn't lower. During Feb, March, April, May, June and July, it has slowly dropped to the ground. There is still pressure on the chain though.


With S1 removed the only things holding the ram up is the quill and gland nut. Put a large pry bar in the end of the lift arm and push down. If need be turn the quill out a bit and may have to loosen gland nut also.

If the plow is on the ground most likely the ram will not go down by its self.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Something ain't adding up. 
If you removed the s1 valve and pushed down on the ram it should move. 
Yes the packing nut and quill but if it was working then quit I still cry electrical AT first. But since you've thrown everything INCLUDING the bathtub, I say throw in the towel and dealer it.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

dieselss;1847068 said:


> Something ain't adding up.
> If you removed the s1 valve and pushed down on the ram it should move.
> Yes the packing nut and quill but if it was working then quit I still cry electrical AT first. But since you've thrown everything INCLUDING the bathtub, I say throw in the towel and dealer it.


Don't know how many times I have run into people that think the ram will lower without anything pulling down on it. Most likely if his plow is on the ground it is not gonna go any further without him pushing on it.

If we can get down working or confirm it works we can see if ram will raise without any wait on it. Since OP said he is reading 0 psi I am guessing relief valve or damaged/missing o-ring.

But I find it easier to deal with on problem at a time.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Exactly. All these issues seem so odd. And IF he's testing in the proper port, it's gunna leak out some fluid from the ram.....hence it'll lower


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

Yes there has been some leakage, pulling plug to put in test gauge, pulled manifold 3 times, it leaks there too. I finally gave up this afternoon (snow forecsat for Sunday night here) and took the pump to a snowplow place in the Adirondacks. They said they will look at it in the morning. He says he's never seen a failure of all movement like that unless it was electrical. (harness or controller). I told him of all the tests i did and how i even ran jumpers to the solenoids when the motor was running and still nothing. He just scratched his head and said "we'll check it in the morning". I will post the outcome later tomorrow !!!


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok. Kinda sounds like the best option.


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## xjoedirt55x (Dec 11, 2009)

Any way of bypassing controllers and harnesses and "hot" wire the pump and solenoid(s) needed for desired operation?

When you get to motor to run, does it sound like it is free of pressure, or does it sound pressurized like it is all the way in one direction? If you crack your angle hoses loose, is there any built up pressure in the hoses?


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## Brislo (Feb 3, 2014)

Well just got the pump back from the Westren Plow dealer. He said he driverside crossover relief valve and was frozen and he had to replace a poppet valve. He also said the 4way solenoid valve was affected because of the poppet valve. Don't know if any of that makes sense but i put the pump back on the truck and now it works fine. A $243.00 lesson learned .....i guess !!!! Thanks to all you guys who tried to help solve this nightmare !!!! Let It Snow !!


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Brislo;1847787 said:


> Well just got the pump back from the Westren Plow dealer. He said he driverside crossover relief valve and was frozen and he had to replace a poppet valve. He also said the 4way solenoid valve was affected because of the poppet valve. Don't know if any of that makes sense but i put the pump back on the truck and now it works fine. A $243.00 lesson learned .....i guess !!!! Thanks to all you guys who tried to help solve this nightmare !!!! Let It Snow !!


Thumbs Up ..........


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