# From Newbie to Newbie: My experience in the business



## road2damascus

I was going to post this in an thread arguing that a Jeep (with personal plates and probably not insured properly) wasn't good enough to plow a bank parking lot. Just for the record, I agree on the plates and insurance because of liability and the law. I thought this post would be used better here in the newbie thread. I then expanded the email to include several aspects of the business that I ran into, to try and help a newbie out. I am sure most of this is covered in several parts of this forum. I hope some of it is new and can help. By posting this, I might get some advise myself from guys that know more than me.

History:

I have had my own business for two years. It is registered as an LLC business with the state. I do 30 driveways, 2 private lanes, 1 small apartment and 1 small commercial lot. I have two small vehicles. A 1994 Jeep Wrangler 4 cylinder manual and a 95 GMC Jimmy. I have three commercial liability policies. One on the business, one on the Jeep and one on the Jimmy. Both vehicles are registered/titled under the business name and have commercial license plates. The commercial liability covers my other driver whom has a clean driving record. I have it all set up THE RIGHT WAY.

Unfortunately this was not always the case........

You have to start somewhere:

I started plowing for a Country Club at a young age using loaders, skids and trucks so I already knew how to plow. If you have never plowed before learning from someone that knows would be better than starting your business now. My business started when I was 30, had no work and a family to support. I started with a shovel and 6 driveways ($20-30 a piece). Then a manual plow (snowsport) on a jeep. Then driving for another company with an agreement to do my driveways with their truck. Then I went on my own. All this time with improper insurance, improper plates and collecting cash. Absolutely clueless as to how a real business runs.

Need a mentor and to do research:

I would be out there right now plowing for million dollar homes, with my passenger plates, on my personal insurance and my low ball prices if it wasn't for this site and a veteran to the business John the "Garagekeeper". He was nice enough to guide me through this business without bumping my head to many times. All I had to do was bring Dunkin Donuts coffee to his shop and listen.

 I found that most other people in the business views newbies as competition:

They won't lift a finger to help out a guy trying to get into the business. Scratch that last sentence..... They will lift a finger.....the middle one! Seriously, I used to wave to fellow plowers all the time. I would get the finger back or deadly looks. I can't stand the unfriendly aspect to this business!

Learn about insurance, taxes, types of ownerships of a business and contracts

Call your personal insurance carrier to see what is covered on your policy. Most companies will not cover you with a plow hanging form the front of your vehicle. Call several insurance agents about commercial liability insurance. Get more than one quote. Understand why you have this insurance and what it covers. Understand it will cost three times as much if not more than regular insurance. I have a great guy you can talk too if needed. 
Learn about "sole proprietorship", "Incorporated" and the different types of "LLC" business's. This will be found through your secretary of state. Figure out what is best for you. There are fees that go with it. Mine were: $500 initial filing fee for the first year, $200 filing fee each year after. 
Keep all receipts for vehicle repairs, maintenance, plow repair, gas, ink for the printer, laptop purchase for the business, registration fees, salt, shovels, everything so you can write them off on your taxes. Keep all records of how much you make and put them in a 3 ring binder and a computer program (computers may crash so the 3 ring binder is crucial). 
Talk to a lawyer about a contract. I did not. I took someone's contract and adapted it to my needs. Understand your contract completely and understand that a contract will NOT always save your butt from being sued. Also understand there are different ways to set up contracts (per push, per inch, and seasonal). Set them up in a five mile radius of each other. Time in between accounts is wasted time. Getting to a account 5 miles away in a blizzard or in rush hour traffic takes 10 times as long as normal.

Little vehicles have their place:

I use the equipment that was best for my application at a very cheap price. I already had the Jeep and the Jimmy was handed down to me from my dad whom passed away. Even if I had to pay for these both could be had for a total of $6000-7000. The jeep has a pull plow and a front plow on it and it is a 120HP 4 CYLINDER MANUAL. Yes, it does not push like a truck but all my contracts are set up to plow every five inches. The jeep handles this just fine and much faster then most any one in the neighborhood with a truck. It also uses half the fuel. The Jimmy is an automatic and has the 4.3l 6 cylinder with 200HP and 260ft lbs of torque. I plowed through a 20 inch Blizzard in the Jimmy strapped with brand new BFG AT's. Plowed like a champ, took apart 4 foot drifts, plowed with blade up, down, what ever.... 33hrs without shutting off the engine. The private lanes and small business lot were not a problem. Never broke a thing and it has 160k on it.

Learn to work on your vehicles:

I have an unfair advantage in this department. I went to Wyoming Tech and work on all my cars. You too can learn about your vehicle and what problems they are prone to have. Just go to a forum dedicated to your vehicle or search here. You can also keep up with maintenance. I am huge into preventive maintenance. They are set up with air shocks, timbrens, good batteries and high amp alternators. All tune ups, oil changes and fluid changes, repairs are done with the best parts and fluids available. BUY NEW ALL TERRAIN TIRES OR DEDICATED SNOW TIRES! Clean your vehicles. I spend $1.50-$4.00 at the "do it yourself" car wash after each plow. It all helps. Just look at my vehicles and keep in mind they are 1994 and 1995: http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=118785

Know your limits with small vehicles:

I will be adding a 3/4 ton to my "fleet" this year because I turned down two larger parking lots, last season, that my two smaller vehicles would have a hard time with. I wanted them badly but knew it would not work. 
- I didn't want to break my vehicles (we ended up having heavy wet snow for all three pushes this year and am glad I didn't take them). 
The Jeep has more limits then the Jimmy with pushing snow. I have put the thing sideways in heavy wet snow. Get to know what they can and can't do. Know their perimeters and turning radius. Know how they react on all severe weather surfaces.

Learn to build your plows and get familiar with them:

Mistake: I ordered a SnowSport manual plow for 6 driveways knowing I wanted to expand. Plow was good for a homeowner plow and 6 driveways but not for a business. It was never intended to do that. For the money or a little more, I could have bought a decent hydraulic plow.

Slight Mistake: bought my second plow, a loose Western sport utility UniMount plow. It's the red one in the pictures in the "my plow rigs" thread. Still worked fine for driveway duty. It was not enough for small lot or private lane work. Snow came over the top, didn't angle as much as other plows and it didn't stack snow as well as a standard duty. Plus the life of it was going to be considerably less because it wasn't intended for this kind of use. When I could, I found a Western standard duty UniMount plow for even less than I paid for the Sport U!

Very smart: Find a good used plow and let a professional rebuild it. John "the Garagekeeper" rebuilt my first galvanized plow.









John also did my Daniel's pull plow (used made into new with a wicked pump under hood install):









Learn to find deals on CL and build them yourself. I built this one last summer for a fraction of the cost of new: http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=134785

Special note: I use polyurethane edges on my plows. It is a big selling factor when it comes to protecting surfaces such as pavers. Poly works great, don't believe that it doesn't scrape good enough. Poly does not scratch seal-coat, asphalt or concrete. People are now very concerned about this and know that there are products out there that don't scratch.

Learn to track storms and try understanding maps, use info on sites and radar:

Learn about what causes snow, what your average snowfall is, dry and wet snow, lake effect snow, ground temperatures, ice, freezing rain all of it! Most of my time here is spent in the weather forum. Lots of guys post good information. You will also need to find "trained spotter" information for snowfall measurements. I use them to cover my end. If a customer complains you have the information recorded and it is not by you. It is by a trained spotter. Can't argue with that! 

Mark your accounts with lots of Markers and know your accounts:

I used lots of markers this year, mostly for my new driver. I pay 76 cents a piece. I use them for sprinkler heads, rocks, speed bumps, anything I don't want to hit that I may forget about. I mark a lot of stuff I don't want to repair! No matter how good you are you will hit something you forget about. It is also a pain to go around and reseed turf torn up by the plow. So knowing where the grass starts and ends helps a ton. Sure you can include in your contract that you are not responsible for turf but you may not get that contract back the following year. Polyurethane and rubber edges are very gentile to turf.

Take pictures or draw out pictures when there is no snow on the ground to help you. When it gets covered, you will not remember everything!

You don't have to lowball to get accounts:

A lot of the new accounts I got this year were from well known contractors whom did not:
-Fix damaged property or did not fix it timely 
-Did not check their drivers work afterward, including parkways
-Did not show up within 5 hours of the storm ending

I send out lots of contracts every fall and get 25% of them. Low baller's will never last and pros don't die in one season. Low baller's may steal your account but the account will probably be calling you back the following year due to poor service. 
This season was a terrible year for most. We got about half the average snow fall. No snow in December. It was the 9th warmest winter on record for us. Three plowable 2" plus storms. I still covered my expenses and broke even in. Last year, I made three times as much.
I charge what I have too to make a profit, cover my overhead and keep my customers happy. I would say I am in the middle when it comes to bidding but when it comes to service I am at the top. Providing a better service at medium price doesn't get me rich but I keep all my customers including the ones I shoveled years back. I have lost one customer due to becoming a permanent resident in Florida. I turn down accounts when it is not good for me or for the customer.

Overall, it has been a challenge to start a legit business. So many guys out there desperate for a dollar bill willing to do sell them selves short to get it. So many disappointments (only because I had higher expectations). So much stress when it doesn't snow (doctor almost put me on meds). So many times I question being in this business. It is not easy to work all night only to get a complaint the next morning about where you placed the snow because it is unsightly. Chasing people down for your money is not fun. Pushing snow around is the easy part. The business and handling the responsibility is the hard part.
It is rewarding in the end. The pride of being able to build something in your name. The ability to make a weeks worth of money in one night. Better yet, a months worth in 33 hrs payup (Blizzard). I love working on cars and plows and this gives me a chance to do my hobby for money. There is lots of room to expand. You don't need a PHD or an associates degree. It also leads to a lot of other work. Doing a good job, owning up to mistakes (damages), and being ultra reliable has led me into lots of handyman work and am now getting into the landscaping. I am doing something I enjoy that I could never do unless I owned the company. Being a plow jockey for some other business just ain't going to cut it financially for a man with a wife and three children to take care of. I look forward to learning more about this business and expanding. I am sure I missed a lot and probably will add to this thread as I remember. I have been writing this all afternoon/evening and am getting tired. Sorry if something doesn't make sense.

MIKE
Please feel free to contact me.


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## doyles

mike
this is a nice thread with alot of good info on it.


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## basher

Excellent Post.


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## Luther

Wish I could see what area you're from.

We're hiring...how do you feel about Detroit?


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## basher

TCLA;1467361 said:


> Wish I could see what area you're from.
> 
> We're hiring...how do you feel about Detroit?


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## road2damascus

doyles;1467345 said:


> mike
> this is a nice thread with alot of good info on it.





basher;1467354 said:


> Excellent Post.


Thanks for the kind words fellas Thumbs Up



TCLA;1467361 said:


> Wish I could see what area you're from.
> 
> We're hiring...how do you feel about Detroit?


I am 308 miles or 5 hours 20 minutes down I-94 E. I appreciate the offer but will have to pass. I am pretty much planted here in the north suburbs of Chicago. My mom and sisters are all within a hour of me. My wife's family are all around here as well. I have been a member at a church that I don't plan on leaving. If you would of caught me in my younger single years when I lived in Florida, Wyoming, Illinois, California and traveled to Europe, Mexico, five Caribbean Islands and about 30 U.S. States, I would have said yes for sure!


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## CGM Inc.

well done!
If you ask for help you usually get some


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## Top_Notch

Great thread!

Jeff


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## plowmaster07

Great thread! Wish every person starting in the business would read this or get similar information like it.


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## randomb0b123

i was thinking about doing a galvanized plow like that. how do you like it? does snow stick to it?


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## road2damascus

randomb0b123;1468330 said:


> i was thinking about doing a galvanized plow like that. how do you like it? does snow stick to it?


It is awesome. It has a real head turning look to it. Snow doesn't stick to it nearly as bad as a painted/powdercoat plow. Super wet snow will eventually stick. Snow does build up above the poly urethane edge. Being an inch to an inch and a half thick, it acts like a shelf no big deal though.


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## road2damascus

CGM Inc.;1467485 said:


> well done!
> If you ask for help you usually get some





Top_Notch;1468268 said:


> Great thread!
> 
> Jeff





plowmaster07;1468279 said:


> Great thread! Wish every person starting in the business would read this or get similar information like it.


Thank you men :salute:


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## [email protected]

Like has been said, excellent post!


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## unhcp

great post, as someone who is not been in the business very long I can agree with what you said 100%


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## pabaker66

Wonderful post and a much needed post!!!!


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## road2damascus

[email protected];1468403 said:


> Like has been said, excellent post!


I contacted your company, when I was very wet behind the ears, for information without buying anything. I received a very good email answering my questions thoroughly. Thank you. I will go into my email history to see whom it was that answered my email.



unhcp;1468435 said:


> great post, as someone who is not been in the business very long I can agree with what you said 100%





pabaker66;1468462 said:


> Wonderful post and a much needed post!!!!


Thanks guys.


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## road2damascus

[email protected];1468403 said:


> Like has been said, excellent post!





road2damascus;1468513 said:


> I contacted your company, when I was very wet behind the ears, for information without buying anything. I received a very good email answering my questions thoroughly. Thank you. I will go into my email history to see whom it was that answered my email.


I stand corrected. I did buy a bolt bag assembly from you all. Guess what? The emails where from YOU Jim. Small world. Back in 2010. Just goes to show, if you have a good experience with a company, you remember them.


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## thelettuceman

Like others said ... "excellent post' and too bad you get the middle finger from guys in the business. When I'm fueling up and see a competitor...we usually tell each other about the "no pays" to stay away from


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## james.j.smith

great post


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## road2damascus

james.j.smith;1475527 said:


> great post


Thumbs Up Thank you.


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## First Responder

TCLA;1467361 said:


> Wish I could see what area you're from.
> 
> We're hiring...how do you feel about Detroit?


TCLA.....what area are you at in Detroit? In Macomb county here!


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## countrybiggen

road2damascus;1467484 said:


> Thanks for the kind words fellas Thumbs Up
> 
> I am 308 miles or 5 hours 20 minutes down I-94 E. I appreciate the offer but will have to pass. I am pretty much planted here in the north suburbs of Chicago. My mom and sisters are all within a hour of me. My wife's family are all around here as well. I have been a member at a church that I don't plan on leaving. If you would of caught me in my younger single years when I lived in Florida, Wyoming, Illinois, California and traveled to Europe, Mexico, five Caribbean Islands and about 30 U.S. States, I would have said yes for sure!


Hey so you live in michigan.... if so thats awesome. Y ou starting this thread was very helpful and its funny you bring up the fact you have a Jimmy with a plow cause I have one in my fleet also that my brother in law owns


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## Puddle of Oil

Great thread!


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## Dogplow Dodge

Puddle of Oil;1486726 said:


> Great thread!


Yes it is...

Too bad others who have the expert experience haven't expanded upon it.

I've bee plowing snow for just a couple of years, and not too long ago, I found this site. I find that for the most part there are a few good guys here who will help anyone else out, and then there's the group that doesn't want to give up their secrets. It's just the nature of humans, I guess.

Thanks for the post.... Great read as I built up my contracting business doing the same thing...... developing a "brand". Seems to take a little longer in this business, and people that I've come across (not all, but most) don't care about the quality of the work being performed... just the price......

Sad that it is....


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## road2damascus

So I see a couple of people have found this thread. No I am not in Michigan. I am just above Chicago. Here is a little update on my business. It has grown over 30% this past summer. They came to me. It was 100 degrees out and they came to me about snow! Love it. I am having another meeting tomorrow morning about another contract that could be big. I already bought another truck and plow. Everything is payed for. Life is good. Just need some snow this year Thumbs Up


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## Luther

First Responder;1486347 said:


> TCLA.....what area are you at in Detroit? In Macomb county here!


Our main office is in Wixom.


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## born2farm

Excellent post!


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## rtreads

Wow this is a GREAT thread! I have been thinking of what to do one the finish comes off my plow..... glaiv sound like the answer to me!


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## road2damascus

rtreads;1486824 said:


> Wow this is a GREAT thread! I have been thinking of what to do one the finish comes off my plow..... glaiv sound like the answer to me!


It isn't cheap but it will last longer than any thing out there! Might be getting another galvanized pull plow Thumbs Up


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## rtreads

Galiv is the new thing in the off road community when doing restores like a frame off. A lot of the early bronco guys that I wheel with have been talking about it.

Does the blade have to be in perfect condition prior to the galiv process? Or is some surface rust, chipping paint ok? I would imagine it gets blasted first right?

Thanks for the info!


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## road2damascus

rtreads;1486921 said:


> Galiv is the new thing in the off road community when doing restores like a frame off. A lot of the early bronco guys that I wheel with have been talking about it.
> 
> Does the blade have to be in perfect condition prior to the galiv process? Or is some surface rust, chipping paint ok? I would imagine it gets blasted first right?
> 
> Thanks for the info!


Original condition of the blade has to be structurally sound. Blade has to get all the rust/paint sand blasted first. Raw metal.

"Hot-dip galvanizing deposits a thick robust layer that may be more than is necessary for the protection of the underlying metal in some applications." I agree with this quote from Wikipedia. My plows will probably out last anything I put them on.


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## road2damascus

My newest member to my small fleet: 92 3/4 ton Suburban 5.7l auto 4.10 gears and a Snow Dogg EX75 plow. The Suburban was driven around by a fire chief in Utah all its life. Very relaxed, municipally maintained, rust free find. Only option it had was a/c Thumbs Up

I went stainless steel for my next plow but.....next summer I will take it apart, sand blast and galvanize the steel parts. So it will be a stainless steel mold board on a galvanized steel frame. Should look crazy


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## Nearbywork

*Thanks for sharing*

This was a great read -- thanks again for taking them time to share your experience.


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## kyles landscapi

great post lots of valed points...idk if its just me i love running my own company i am young and energetic buliding slowly but surely andi dont think i could go to work for someone else after running my own business


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## Willybak

Most informative and excellent information. Thank you very much for spending the time to put the post together.

Willy


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## road2damascus

You are all very welcome. Thumbs Up


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## dshanks

great thread thanks for the infoThumbs Up


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## JCResources

It's called bootstrapping, and quite frankly we need much more of this mentality in America.

Make it work with what you've got. Exploit whatever "unfair" advantages you have, be they skills, climate, contacts or just work ethic and determination.

All with the goal of collecting more money than you spend every year.

Same strategy we use in our young company.

Keep working hard.

ussmileyflaghttp://www.facebook.com/pages/Legacy-Land-Care-LLC/256225321177


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## road2damascus

JCResources;1506302 said:


> It's called bootstrapping, and quite frankly we need much more of this mentality in America.
> 
> Make it work with what you've got. Exploit whatever "unfair" advantages you have, be they skills, climate, contacts or just work ethic and determination.
> 
> All with the goal of collecting more money than you spend every year.
> 
> Same strategy we use in our young company.
> 
> Keep working hard.
> 
> ussmileyflaghttp://www.facebook.com/pages/Legacy-Land-Care-LLC/256225321177


Where is the like button when you need one!


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## Buck331

I wish to commend you on your truly positive and professional post. You have obviously worked hard and earned an extremely good reputation. Well done!


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## road2damascus

Thank you. Next chapter is going to be called Growing Business, Growing Costs or....... Snow Business: A Supplemental Income. 

With the growth comes more insurance, maintenance, fuel.....overhead. I will definitely be raising rates on my first and second year bids that I have honored thus far. Just can't do it anymore. 

As for my other title.....my other business has the capability of making money 365 days of the year. It is not reliant on 5 to 10 days/nights of the year. Sure I make 2x as much pushing 5" of snow for 4 hours than I do working a 10 hour day but it is much more predictable and controllable. I don't live in an area that produces a good season every year.


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## sweetcutgrass

what is your other bizz ?


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## sweetcutgrass

also great read thanks !


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## bel-nor

As I sit thinking of the route to take related to turf/snow business I read a wonderful post. The legal part I got already now moving further than just sidewalks and driveways in winter. I read reports every day at work in Law Enforcement and I ask my crew to write like you reading to a 5 year old to fully get your ideas across....this reads too good. No sarcasim can rear it's ugly head on this one. Thank you young man!


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## road2damascus

sweetcutgrass;1549483 said:


> what is your other bizz ?


many trades. handy man, painting, concrete (new to me), landscaping, tree removal, home maintenance, house sitting, light plumbing, light electrical, carpentry, demolition......anything i can tack a profitable price to.


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## road2damascus

bel-nor;1549670 said:


> As I sit thinking of the route to take related to turf/snow business I read a wonderful post. The legal part I got already now moving further than just sidewalks and driveways in winter. I read reports every day at work in Law Enforcement and I ask my crew to write like you reading to a 5 year old to fully get your ideas across....this reads too good. No sarcasim can rear it's ugly head on this one. Thank you young man!


thank you. you just ended my 40 hour day with a smile.


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## sweetcutgrass

road2damascus;1550533 said:


> many trades. handy man, painting, concrete (new to me), landscaping, tree removal, home maintenance, house sitting, light plumbing, light electrical, carpentry, demolition......anything i can tack a profitable price to.


ok . thanks for some light and the end of the tunnel so to speak .:salute:


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## road2damascus

Well, i figure I better update this thread since its been soooo long. I have 6 children and actually own a house now! So dont make me feel bad about not updating!

During this time I have developed my business a bit. Im a legit LLC business now. I am running 3-4 trucks and have added commercial lots. My first year we did commercial we had 84 inches of snow. It was tough but a huge success. My crew that year was solid. Having to deal with constant negative degree weather for weeks, a 20" blizzard, and dealing with me with such lack of sleep.

Keeping good help.....
Ive found out its hard to keep good employees. Most have to have another job. That other job usually gives many more hours than snow. Therefore that job takes precedence. Providing enough work to keep them around is tough! So ive tried to keep a year round employee working both snow and my handyman business. Good story: I had a guy break his leg right before a two day event. He was in a truck plowing the second day. I didnt ask him to do this.....Dedicated. Speaking of dedicated, my former sub and plowsite member @Sawboy should be mentioned. The guy defines the meaning of "getting it done". Then theres @metallihockey88. He'd show up hours before his regular job to help out where he could. I have had some animal like shovelers as well. I also put some of my guys in a nice hotel for the last blizzard, just to keep them near sites and happy. It backfired first day as they found beer and a indoor pool. After my "pep talk" the second day....there was no pool or beer : ). But in the end, its hard to keep anyone in this business so get used to finding new talent.

Insurance
Business liability 1 million minimum and some commercials will want 2 million
Commercial liability auto insurance on all vehicles is a must. 
Workmans comp is law here so add that to the list.
Need help with figuring out ballpark prices? Just message me. In the beginning I was confused in this area and I now have an outstanding agent.

Im still using poly edges on my residential routes. Its a huge selling point. No damage to surface, no marks and do pavers all day long.

Big thing I learned was finding goldmines off the beaten path. These are properties that want top quality zero tolerance service who are willing to pay the cost. I credit a phone call from @SullivanSeptic for this. I was initially looking at the big lots on main roads thinking thats where the money is at. Its the opposite! Along with this thinking, I no longer deal with people that want to haggle my price. Especially with residential.

Salt 
My first couple commercial seasons I did bagged material only in a tailgater. Id go through nearly 2,000lbs in bags an event. When there was a salt scare. I picked up three pallets a day for 4 days and unloaded all of by hand into a storage locker. I got pretty good at throwing 50lb bags around that season with 84" of snow!!!! But i didnt run out of salt like some. Prices were high and the only way to make a profit was to skimp. So I used a walkbehind and saved 3-4 bags per site. I was a bit crazy in that sense but its all for the learning!

I got a liquid de icing unit and messed with that a bit one season. It was great with dry snow. But 50% of the time rock salt was also needed. So i rigged my tailgate spreader with the 8 ft boom and had best of both worlds.

I had a wooden box that would hold over a ton of salt given to me and started running bulk. Savings was great. I made more money BUT it was tough. The bucket on the loader was much wider than the box. So I had to get up on top of my truck cab and shovel from loader to box, then shovel from box to tailgate spreader on site. In an ice storm I went through nearly 6,000 lbs. That means I shoveled 12,000lbs in one event! Im no stranger to hard work and physical challenge but this is ending this season as Im now finally getting a V box. Unfortunately I had to learn the very very hard way that a V box from the beginning would of been the best most profitable move years later.

Networking
@NorthernSvc's is an awesome guy. He works the same area I do yet does not view me as competition. Instead we work together to make both of us more money and improve service to our area. His idea is, theres enough business to go around for all of us and then some! He has helped me out greatly throughout my journey in snow and ice. I might add he is a bit younger than I......lesson: dont be afraid to take advice from those younger than you. Knowledge and experience is knowledge and experience and doesn't care about age!

Family life
Snow and ice can effect the family. I have to work for long crazy hours then sleep and sometimes do it again and then my free time has to get used fixing trucks and plows. Next thing you know its been 3-4 days before you spend time with the kids n wife. Its tough for them to adjust for sure. At one point during out 84" season, my wife called me a zombie. Even when I was home, i wasnt. Ive been gifted with the ability to stay focused on minimal sleep but I can only stay focused on ONE thing. Everything else takes a backseat in crunch time. Therefore its zombie like!

Ive come a long way from shoveling driveways for $30 a pop. I learned a lot the hard way. But the hard way makes me smarter, tougher and versatile. For you newbs, there are great rates on 20 year business loans. They are like 3%. Get yourself 30-40k and start out the right way! Look to the future as thats where the profit will eventually be. Your first and second seasons probably wont be money makers.

Until next time:

MIKE


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## Defcon 5

Just came across this and it was a very good read...You should be proud of yourself for building and growing your business the right way....

I just have only one piece of advice for you.... 6 kids????...You can stop now.


Congrats and keep us posted.....


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## Sawboy

Thanks for the kind words Mike. 

I'll also say that Ben is great too. Zero vested interest in my success but helped me out as well. 

And to everyone reading this thread, know that Mike is a class act, and really is a guy who is willing to help. 

Overall, there are quite a few guys here (myself included) that really see the value in helping their own kind. 

Mike, I wish you all the continued success in the world man!


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## Dogplow Dodge

Defcon 5 said:


> Just came across this and it was a very good read...You should be proud of yourself for building and growing your business the right way....
> 
> I just have only one piece of advice for you.... 6 kids????...You can stop now.
> 
> Congrats and keep us posted.....


Good read, and I agree with the kid thing....

Unless , of course you are starting your own sports team or the like..:hammerhead:


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## road2damascus

I just got done doing rotors, pads, calipers, abs sensors, shocks, spark plug wires, egr sensor and timbrens on one of my trucks. Getting ready for snow season!

Children:
Most of society would agree about having many children. Its unfortunate to say the least. Raising children is hard work but not a burden if you are committed to them and not yourself. Children are gifts from God and I like gifts. There is no greater challenge than raising children. Its total sacrifice, complete commitment and absolutely selfless. Makes me more patient, humble and forgiving. Drives me to work harder, safer, smarter and be more successful. I am committed and willing to take on even more challenge. Just bring it! Plowing a blizzard is nothing compared to putting my boys to bed! Which I got to go and do now.

Biggest reason is having a future shovel crew I can count on.....LOL.


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