# The backbone of a truck



## yamahatim (Feb 15, 2010)

This is what it's all about. I plow with a half ton truck, residential and light commercial. Works great for me. Just traded my 2004 F-150 for a 2010. As great as the 2004 was, the 2010 seems so much more solid. It's easy to see why Ford has been the best selling truck for so many years. When you look under the skin, you see why "Built Ford Tough" means just that vs. the rest.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

That makes me want an F150.


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## yamahatim (Feb 15, 2010)

I forgot this great clip.


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## jb1390 (Sep 23, 2008)

I am skeptical looking at any "tests" put on by the manufacturer of that product. Frame flex when measured in this manner doesn't necessarily mean that your truck will break under operational loads. In fact, a stiffer steel will crack before a more flexible grade of steel-so without more information this doesn't say much. Wonderful advertising though.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

the flex test i would disagree on, but roof strengh suspention goes along way and ill give it to ford!


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## yamahatim (Feb 15, 2010)

jb1390;1092630 said:


> I am skeptical looking at any "tests" put on by the manufacturer of that product. Frame flex when measured in this manner doesn't necessarily mean that your truck will break under operational loads. In fact, a stiffer steel will crack before a more flexible grade of steel-so without more information this doesn't say much. Wonderful advertising though.


No matter what, frames all flex, however, too much will cause loss of stability of the load and over time will weaken the structure. This will cause rattles, squeeks, chassis alignment issues as well as potential handling and safety problems. Plus, having a strong structure to build allows for better suspension tuning and better NVH control.


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## sven_502 (Nov 1, 2008)

I have to hand it to ford, their advertisements are always awesome, and thats probably the reason they sell so many trucks. Anybody else notice how there wasn't an engine comparison video? The powertrain comparison video contained *****ing about engine mounts. I will give it to ford that they have well built trucks, but as far as engines go no sir.


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

sven_502;1093806 said:


> I have to hand it to ford, their advertisements are always awesome, and thats probably the reason they sell so many trucks. Anybody else notice how there wasn't an engine comparison video? The powertrain comparison video contained *****ing about engine mounts. I will give it to ford that they have well built trucks, but as far as engines go no sir.


Wait til the 2012's come out!  The 5.4 is a good motor for a 1/2 ton, have one in my expy and it's a great motor, no complaints. It may not win every race, but it's a very solid dependable engine that gets good fuel economy. Ford's got some new engines coming out for the 1/2 tons next year that look really impressive!


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

Who told you Ford was the best selling truck? The dealer or the commercials? They forget that Chevy and GMC are both General Motors 

GM was #1 for over 80 years running, only to get beat out by Toyota a couple of short years ago


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

got-h2o;1093865 said:


> Who told you Ford was the best selling truck? The dealer or the commercials? They forget that Chevy and GMC are both General Motors
> 
> GM was #1 for over 80 years running, only to get beat out by Toyota a couple of short years ago


GM was number 1 in Total Car Sales...NOT in Total Truck Sales.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

MileHigh;1093879 said:


> GM was number 1 in Total Car Sales...NOT in Total Truck Sales.


Actually total VEHICLE sales NOT car sales...................but namely wanted to rile up the Ford truck owners a little bit.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

There is no doubt that Ford overbuilds their trucks, they have to in order to keep all of their fleet customers happy - kidding. 

I think they other manufacturers put money/development elsewhere (powerful engines/exterior design/interior) and slightly less than Ford into their frame/bolts/engine mounts. Does it mean that a Chevy/Dodge frame won't hold as much or last as long- doubt it (the Toyota- yes I think so). But at the end of the day its a half ton truck that will only be rated for half ton duty. You do more and its illegal- any half ton truck can take the "punishment" of the half ton duties. Some - Toyota/Dodge/GM have the power to actually move the heavier loads that they are rated for while the Ford will struggle.

I think its funny when they do the washboard test and regardless of what they say- the coil sprung Ram did a much better job keeping the tires on the ground than any other truck. Its a better suspension setup regardless of what they will tell you- I wonder why Tractor Trailer trucks all use it with air bags?


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## yamahatim (Feb 15, 2010)

A lot is hyped about 0-60 times and racing a truck. Quite frankly all the trucks do a good job of this. But in the real world, it's 45-70 that we need and use everyday. The Ford definately does that as good or better than the rest. As far as coil springs, yeah they may ride a little better, until you load down the truck with a heavy trailer or haul something. Try that and do an evasive move...your next move will be to clean your shorts. This 2010 F-150 feels so solid, both empty and towing. Yesterday I pulled a 14' dump trailer full of split oak firewood and it was amazingly solid, and the power was so much better than my 2004 F-150.

As far as truck sales, and the combined GM and Chevy numbers...not the case today.

All GM September year to date = 357950
All Ford September year to daye = 385879

Data source below:
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/10/september-2010-year-to-date-top-10-pickup-truck-sales-.html

Read the article about the 2010 Chevy test...Might answer some of the "how well it's built" questions.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/04/road-test-review-2010-chevrolet-silverado-1500-z71.html


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

Well since Ford's frame strength is partially the topic..............Ford has been bragging about that for years. If that's the case, why has the rear frame on my F350 SRW been cracked and re-welded several times? Also why is it that body guys will tell you that a GM frame is much harder to pull back straight that anything? They're all trucks, over use or abuse them and they will all have similar issues. Bragging about the frame strength of a half ton truck, or any truck for that matter is pretty meaningless IMO.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

yamahatim;1094090 said:


> A lot is hyped about 0-60 times and racing a truck. Quite frankly all the trucks do a good job of this. But in the real world, it's 45-70 that we need and use everyday. The Ford definately does that as good or better than the rest. *As far as coil springs, yeah they may ride a little better, until you load down the truck with a heavy trailer or haul something. Try that and do an evasive move...your next move will be to clean your shorts. * This 2010 F-150 feels so solid, both empty and towing. Yesterday I pulled a 14' dump trailer full of split oak firewood and it was amazingly solid, and the power was so much better than my 2004 F-150.
> 
> As far as truck sales, and the combined GM and Chevy numbers...not the case today.
> 
> ...


You've obviously never towed with a 2009+ Ram1500 then. Most every magazine (if this is what you'd like to go by) praises the stability of the 4 link coil rear suspension in the Ram. Sure the coils will squat but its not bottoming out, and its much more stable than a leaf sprung rear end. Throw some airbags ($70) in the back and it won't squat anymore- just like the big rigs. It'll be a matter of time before the 3/4 & 1 ton trucks switch over to this.


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## yamahatim (Feb 15, 2010)

There is no way 3/4 - 1 ton trucks will go to coil springs. I see Dodge going away from them on their half tons with their next generation trucks.


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## RacingZR (Nov 14, 2009)

Real men drive 3/4 ton trucks anyways :laughing::laughing::laughing:
That ought to get'em going :angry: This thread is pointless.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Why's that? The new half ton has won more awards and customers for them than any previous generation. Drive one before using bias as your only reasoning.

A 4 link suspension is a great suspension for trucks (baja/trophy trucks, crawlers, etc all use it) and if airbags are good enough for big rigs then they are fine for 1/2-1 ton trucks.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

I was talkig to yamaha not you ZR.sorry about that. I'm wondering how many videos he'll have to post to convince himself that the F150 is king?


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## yamahatim (Feb 15, 2010)

Maybe you guys should be high fiving yourselves in the Dodge truck thread.


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## RacingZR (Nov 14, 2009)

plowguy43;1094253 said:


> I was talkig to yamaha not you ZR.


Oh I realize that :salute: I just couldn't resist, some threads end up pointless but this one actually started out that way :laughing::laughing:
I'll exit now and try high fiving other Dodge owners


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

Half tons have their pourpose. I feel the same about gas trucks in general. Personally, I think I'd break one in half given what I use trucks for pretty much on a daily basis. After bouncing around in my 1 ton, I sometimes feel my 2500HD is weak in the ass end.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

yamahatim;1094241 said:


> There is no way 3/4 - 1 ton trucks will go to coil springs. I see Dodge going away from them on their half tons with their next generation trucks.


Sounds like what they said about IFS.......


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## yamahatim (Feb 15, 2010)

RacingZR;1094302 said:


> Oh I realize that :salute: I just couldn't resist, some threads end up pointless but this one actually started out that way. I'll exit now and try high fiving other Dodge owners


Well I like to trash talk but got a hand slap last time I wanted to have some fun. I sold Fords for 15 years before moving on to selling toys. I love the Chevy-Dodge-Ford trash talkin'.

I understand why your reading the Ford forum though. Buyers remorse does go away. :laughing:


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## DodgeRam1996 (Oct 8, 2006)

Is this guy the Karl Rove of Ford Motors? Great ads! Seems like his attacks are against Toyota. All this tough talk, I wonder who the target market is? Most 1/2 trucks are used just for driving to work. Maybe "Harry home depot" wants to feel good when he is picking up bags of top soil?

I'd like to see some tests of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Every few years one of the big three pushes the envelope and we all benefit from it. Ford and GM are doing great things on all their vehicles.

All the new trucks kick butt, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the trucks mentioned, although a new fully loaded truck costs as much as a damn luxury car.


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

DodgeRam1996;1095158 said:


> Is this guy the Karl Rove of Ford Motors? Great ads! Seems like his attacks are against Toyota. All this tough talk, I wonder who the target market is? Most 1/2 trucks are used just for driving to work. Maybe "Harry home depot" wants to feel good when he is picking up bags of top soil?
> 
> I*'d like to see some tests of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks.* Every few years one of the big three pushes the envelope and we all benefit from it. Ford and GM are doing great things on all their vehicles.
> 
> All the new trucks kick butt, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the trucks mentioned, although a new fully loaded truck costs as much as a damn luxury car.


I think it's Pickuptrucks.com who does the yearly write up of all three back to back. However, I couldn't care less about maximum towing capacities. What I really want to see is tests with a Blizzard 8611LP on the front end of all three trucks.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

An 8611 might be extreme with a 3/4 ton, but testing with a 9+ vee would be useful.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

2COR517;1095316 said:


> An 8611 might be extreme with a 3/4 ton, but testing with a 9+ vee would be useful.


My buddie ran an 8611 on his 02 GMC 2500HD gasser for a season. That's after 2 seasons of an 810, and currently a 9.5 Snow Dogg V. No probs aside from general front end maintenance.


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## sven_502 (Nov 1, 2008)

I know a guy with a duramax 3500 SRW and he runs an 810, doesn't even crank the bars.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

got-h2o;1095454 said:


> My buddie ran an 8611 on his 02 GMC 2500HD gasser for a season. That's after 2 seasons of an 810, and currently a 9.5 Snow Dogg V. No probs aside from general front end maintenance.


I said extreme.....

Gasser helps. Reg cab?


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

2COR517;1095589 said:


> I said extreme.....
> 
> Gasser helps. Reg cab?


Actually believe it or not gasser doesn't help IMO. They're front ends are way softer. My Dmaxes with bars up a few turns are way tighter than gassers. Maybe more strain on hub assy's, but as far as sag, not really they way you'd think. The bars are definately rater at a better carrying capacity. wesport

And that truck I mentioned is an X-cab short bed.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

And not that I advise running 8611's on every 3/4 ton. It was definately a bit much for the truck, and sure put a good days work pushing it. Obviously a diesel would have moved snow better with less strain on the driveline.............better mpg's too


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

2COR517;1095316 said:


> An 8611 might be extreme with a 3/4 ton, but testing with a 9+ vee would be useful.





got-h2o;1096105 said:


> And not that I advise running 8611's on every 3/4 ton. It was definately a bit much for the truck, and sure put a good days work pushing it. Obviously a diesel would have moved snow better with less strain on the driveline.............better mpg's too


He said 8611lp, there is a difference, by about 400lbs.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

wizardsr;1096226 said:


> He said 8611lp, there is a difference, by about 400lbs.


Well ya, I assumed we were talking LP's. I wouldn't put a full sized 8611 on a pickup.


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

got-h2o;1096228 said:


> Well ya, I assumed we were talking LP's. I wouldn't put a full sized 8611 on a pickup.


I wouldn't put an 8611lp on any truck with torsion bars. :waving:


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

Pinky Demon;1097039 said:


> I wouldn't put an 8611lp on any truck with torsion bars. :waving:


That's b/c you don't have one!


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Most 3/4 and 1 ton trucks only differ in the rear leaf springs, not the front end. So I don't see much of a problem running that plow with a 3/4 ton truck as long as it has the plow prep package.


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

plowguy43;1097347 said:


> Most 3/4 and 1 ton trucks only differ in the rear leaf springs, not the front end. So I don't see much of a problem running that plow with a 3/4 ton truck as long as it has the plow prep package.


Wow, that's so far from accurate I don't know where to start...

GM = IFS
Dodge = Solid Front Axle with coil springs
Ford = Solid Front Axle with leafs up through 04, and coils 05+

Before 2011 the GM's only went up to 4800lb FAWR... I'm not sure on Dodge, the low 5's seem to come to mind, and Ford's go up to 6000 (higher above 1 tons). I know this, the Chevy 3/4 tons carried 8.5 pro plows just fine after adding timbrens and cranking the t-bars. Ford's seem to carry plows better than GM's. I've never run a dodge with a plow, so I'll refrain from comment on them...


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## sven_502 (Nov 1, 2008)

I also have no clue about dodge, but GMs have heavier torsion bars in the 1 tons vs 3/4, also heavier when the diesel option is added.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

wizardsr;1097748 said:


> Wow, that's so far from accurate I don't know where to start...
> 
> GM = IFS
> Dodge = Solid Front Axle with coil springs
> ...


Hence the reason I said "most". And your reply doesn't really substantiate your claim to "thats so far from accurate I don't know where to start". It was very accurate- the only difference on the Ram and Ford is the size of the rear block on the Ford's and the overload springs on the Ram. The front end capacity may be different depending on the plow prep package-which I stated. The 3/4 and 1 ton Ford/Dodge all use the same Axles/brakes/Frames/Engines/Tranny's/Springs. So once again, please explain how this is SO far from accurate.


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

plowguy43;1098236 said:


> Hence the reason I said "most". And your reply doesn't really substantiate your claim to "thats so far from accurate I don't know where to start". It was very accurate- the only difference on the Ram and Ford is the size of the rear block on the Ford's and the overload springs on the Ram. The front end capacity may be different depending on the plow prep package-which I stated. The 3/4 and 1 ton Ford/Dodge all use the same Axles/brakes/Frames/Engines/Tranny's/Springs. So once again, please explain how this is SO far from accurate.


I see now that you're comparing 3/4 to 1 ton models of the same brand, not comparing brands. I thought you were comparing between brands.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh I see now, no worries!


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

got-h2o;1097075 said:


> That's b/c you don't have one!


You're right! Because torsion bars are a complete joke and I know better!


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

Pinky Demon;1099028 said:


> You're right! Because torsion bars are a complete joke and I know better!


Don't know till you try it. I HAVE owned the others and would rather drive a GM any day. Replacing brakes, ball joints, hubs, track bars, trailing arm bushings, etc on SFA trucks gets old. So does bouncing my head off of the roof.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion.


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