# getting new accounts! new to the industy and dont want to lowball!



## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

as some of you guys know i am new to the plowing biz, but i can do a hellov' a job. now next year i am coming to conclusion i need to go on my own and pick up a tailgate spreader. now from the serch feature on the site i got out of it to call around right after winter, april june time so all the people that are doing a bad job get cut right away. i also heard that going from place to place is a good idea to but can get introuble for soiciting in the wrong area. when you guys started how did you go about getting your first big commercial accounts and be able to keep them? i also have a great opertunity to take over the guys route i sub for, but he just wants proof that i have an actuall billing system that is lagit and looks professinol. any imput would be great and i would be picking up a snowex 1075 pivitpro or an sp6000 vbox for the time being.any input and help would be appreciated, thanks alot guys so far this site has helped me out alot and i am having alot of fun plowing.


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

I started on residential first, some of my customers had business etc, was asked to price/plow there. Other business came on,after I had gained a good rep for price and work. And it grew from there. And what is lowballing. And who is Walmart. Some of the whiners on plowsite shop regularly there. :waving: If y ou are able to offer your service at a lower price cuz you have less overhead and come out with a decent return on investments and time you (IMO) are not a lowballer.  A LOWBALLER IS SOMEONE WHO HAS A GRUDGE AGAINST ANOTHER BUSINESS AND CUTS RATES (unreasonably)IN ORDER TO CAUSE THE COMPETITION TO LOSE MARKET SHARE


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

that makes sence about low balling, and i already took that into consideration. i dont want to really cut prices all that much just because my stuff is mine not the banks and so on. but i also have ins to pay for gas,salt up frount ect. this past year i went out to late and couldnt pick anything up because my prices were good compitition. now i can cut my prices a few buck 10 15 dallors but thats it because there are guys out there that need snow removel as winter income and would much rather not see me undercut prices by 25-30%.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd say pick up more residentials first for your "first" real year of plowing on your own. Then network and go from there. Getting into commercial lots with a 1500 w/tailgate sander and 7'6" plow is asking for trouble. I had 1 large parking lot that was vacant (bank owned) that I was allowed up to 1 day after a storm to plow- it would take me all of an hour or more to clear it with a 7'6" plow- once again, completely vacant and just a big square, add in some cars, islands, etc. you get the picture. If I had to do that parking lot and keep on top of it to make sure it was cleared/sanded/salted, along with a bunch of resi's, I'd be over my head. 

Thats just my 25cents.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

im adding atleast one more 3/4 ton this summer for myself, my dads looking at a truck and blade aswell alsong as i pick up the work. i only want maybe a couple more, like 2 or 3 walgreens, couple cvs, and then i can add in a couple driveways, i hate driveways to be honest with all you ps members. im more perductive in an open lot bymyself rather then with another truck or bob cat. soo off the you should do this or do that subject, whats the best way to go about getting more commercial accounts for next year, whats the best time to start looking? sorry if i sounded like an a$$


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

You don't sound like an a*s! Obviously a lot is easier, its more open! There is obviously more money to be made as well.
If your getting a 3/4 ton then thats great.

Market yourself anyway you can- walk into places like you mentioned, even if they think you are soliciting make sure you grab a card if they are telling you to leave. Wait a bit then call and ask to speak with the manager- then go forward about your services.

Think outside the box- go to real estate agency's asking about maintaining vacant properties or if they have landlords you could get in contact with. Go to banks and as to speak with whoever handles forclosures and commercial sales. Sounds dumb but its extremelly easy money- ask me how I know...

Yellow Pages, make a web page, you get the idea! Good luck!


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

my dad told me about the realesate angencies aswell, but do you really think with the economy we are in ther are going to plow vacant lots and forclosed homes everytime it snows?


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

im also going to do some cold hard calling in the summer once winter is gone for the reat of the year till december


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

the new boss 92;977215 said:


> my dad told me about the realesate angencies aswell, but do you really think with the economy we are in ther are going to plow vacant lots and forclosed homes everytime it snows?


I've been doing it for 3 years- its the banks that pay, not the real estate. You basically go to them to find out which banks own the homes. You need to sell it to the banks like this- Open driveways allow showings, showings allow sales, quicker sales mean the home is off the banks books- no more holding the home and its costs. Open driveways may be necessary due to fire regulations- house catch's on fire whether it be arson or electrical or mother nature and a fire truck can't get to it, the bank will be held liable for any and all damage (to firefighters or neighboring homes). Mr. Obama also gave the banks money to fix these homes to make them nicer/easier to sell, so if they can't get to them...you get it.

Plus- as in my case, I have 24 hours after the storm to get them cleared. I get paid a flat rate per home/Lot per storm so I let the storm pass then plow. If its a 2 foot storm, I charge double. If I didn't have a full time job, I'd use this as a supplemental income- plow residentials and other commercial lots with the storm for people that need it done ASAP. Then after the storm passes, go to the vacant properties and take it easy, make some cash.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

plowguy43;977234 said:


> I've been doing it for 3 years- its the banks that pay, not the real estate. You basically go to them to find out which banks own the homes. You need to sell it to the banks like this- Open driveways allow showings, showings allow sales, quicker sales mean the home is off the banks books- no more holding the home and its costs. Open driveways may be necessary due to fire regulations- house catch's on fire whether it be arson or electrical or mother nature and a fire truck can't get to it, the bank will be held liable for any and all damage (to firefighters or neighboring homes). Mr. Obama also gave the banks money to fix these homes to make them nicer/easier to sell, so if they can't get to them...you get it.
> 
> Plus- as in my case, I have 24 hours after the storm to get them cleared. I get paid a flat rate per home/Lot per storm so I let the storm pass then plow. If its a 2 foot storm, I charge double. If I didn't have a full time job, I'd use this as a supplemental income- plow residentials and other commercial lots with the storm for people that need it done ASAP. Then after the storm passes, go to the vacant properties and take it easy, make some cash.


so your saying go to the real estate and i have to find out what bank they use and go talk to them correct? all the points you brought up are very vauleable and correct. now what wbout commercials?


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

You can do it that way or walk into a few banks and ask about doing it also.

As for commercial- just walk on in and ask for bid packets for the next year. Networking is huge as well since people talk and word of mouth is the best advertising and its free!


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

now scence i am new to this, whats all included in a bid packet? how long do they normally take to complete? my one commercial i have was basically given to me and its just a mouth to mouth contract with no strings attached!


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

does anyone else have any input on the subject, i know you guys are out there, even somelike how did you go about getting your first account?


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## jblatti13 (Jan 24, 2009)

ill throw in a few words here just to give an idea or two.

i dont remember who posted it... but the foreclosure/ repo home market actually is a good place to target. this summer i was contacted by a real estate agent who had 4 properties that were vacant but needed the lawn taken care of. she gave me 4 houses, weekly, all summer long. so yes there is money to be made in those. i actually sent formal letters to local realtors in the fall but didnt get anything out of those, yet.

my commercial stuff, which is small to med size lots, just landed through networking. i've bid on a few just from other plow guys passing the word, and bid a few where my newspaper ad came into play. newspaper here is kind of expensive, so i only do that a few months out of the year. ive been asked to bid on, and basically told i will get next year, a gas station lot where i use to work when i was about 17. the manager and myself had a good relationship, and kept in touch with her over the years. they have a larger maint. company now and ive seen there work, they suck. he runs a 88 1/2 ton 2 wheel drive and a vbox thats broke as hell... just kinda keep your eyes out when you're out doing your thing, youll see some targets for bidding, everyone thinks they can plow, we all know thats not true. if they say well this guy charges me X and your Y, then you tell them well because the X price includes his crappy service, and ill garauntee better results.

theres alot of ways to get into comm. bidding, different areas see different results with certain marketing strategies. i think developing some sort of personal contact with the manager or owner or whoever is key. when you can sit down and tell them to their face, il do this job for this amount, and you will see these results, theyre happier than getting a piece of paper and seeing some numbers scribbled in.

just my 2c


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

jb, thats what im going to try and do for next year if i could pick up about 5-8 hours of commercial lots and take a nap in between and then go do some resi's ill be set. but if i could get enough work do you think it will be worth it to buy another truck and have someone run it or should i just get enough work for me myself and i and keep a subs number on hand? because i heard growing to fast can have problems or could work out. i am responsible and when stuff needs to get done i do it efficiantly and quick and dont half a$$ it. this is just one of the harder parts is finding the work not preforming it!


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## jblatti13 (Jan 24, 2009)

in all honesty, if you pick up say 8 hours of comm. work, then start on resi's, as long as you hit each house within your given time frame every storm, then id say stick by yourself. if it gets to the point where you're out 24 hrs straight busting nuts by yourself, consider throwin a sub some hours. after 24 hours you wont want to be behind the wheel, and if its during daytime travel, neither will other drivers. i think thats the max for 1 guy to be out. of course, the timing will always depend on the storm, and if a storm ends at midnight, and you dont have resi's drives clear by 5pm when they return home from work, they may be PO'd. 

i do have a backup truck, and my sister actually started giving me a hand this year when i had too many hours in and just wanted a break. i did 90% of my accounts, she finished up, and we were both happpy. of course a sub wouldnt be so pleased if you called him out of bed for an hour of work, but thats the decisions you have to make.

i think if you get your 8 hours of comm., dont get crazy trying to pick up 40 resi's on top of that, and youd be fine on your own. these guys are right, trying to get too big too fast will cause problems. jumping from one situation your first year, to a huge operation your 2nd year, will just be insanity for you trying to keep straight everything going on.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

yup thats what i wanna stay away from getting to big to fast and not being able to keep up with the billing, plowing, salting and have angry cutermers on top of a headach. i just wanna get garrentted work for next year thatsmine, i also sure that i will beable to get more work for a second truck because the guy i sub for now is talking about giving me all his driveways for next year(15) if i come up with a billing system.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

to sum things up,

go around ask for bid packets for 10-11 season
get flyers passed out for resis
coldhard calling
news papper adds 
networking 

anything else i missed i just wanna get stuff together now, so when april comes around and contracts are up i can get people signed up earlier then later and that way i have all my stuff orginized and whos whos. i just havent done any bidding by myself and have always worked for some one in the buissness already


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## jblatti13 (Jan 24, 2009)

when it comes to bidding, do your research here as well. although most of these guys will give you a hard time if you start a post that says "help me price this lot", because almost every sized lot has been answered already. i use google earth myself, locate each site, theres a ruler option on there, measure the lot out, find the obstacles and total sq footage, take a drive by there and see how many cars are normally around, what kinda of traffic, and adjust your price accordingly. i think the standard is an acre should take an hour.
45k sq ft=60 minutes... i think that means though that its wide open space, which i have seen very little of around me. before all this, you need to come up with an hourly price, or what you need to make in one hour to cover expenses and make a profit. i think the average is around 100-125 an hour.

that being said, i picked up a lot this year thats roughly 9k sq ft and they accepted a bid well over 125, because i worked the service angle, and there are constantly cars parked in the lot, its oddly shaped, and the snow goes to one end.

each site is going to be much different, it just takes some practice at looking at them and coming up with a solid number. but definitely check out the estimating/bidding forums, because prices vary quite a bit from different areas.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

well as far as bidding goes i have 2 or 3 people around i could ask for a little help. but if worst comes to worst then i could post up with google imiges like you said and get a little help form the ps members. does google calculate the meshuerments of the lot for you or do you have to meshure it out your self?


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## jblatti13 (Jan 24, 2009)

it measures straight lines, so you make two lines perpendicular and multiply. of course, if you want to get precise, youd have to make many lines for obstacles and such and do the long math that way.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

ok well i as spring approches, ill be bring this tread back to the top for questions, but for now thanks for all your help and time i appresheate it


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

If you pick up 8 hours of commercial plowing, u will have your hands full with one truck. I have 4 commercial jobs, and a total of 36 houses on top of that. It's pretty crazy around here with a bigger than 4" snow storm. With 2 trucks going, we are both out for about 6-8 hours. If you sign a few commercial accounts and don't get in over your head, you will be able to make money, and do a good job! Personally I hate doing residentials, but they are easier to come by for now. It's tough breaking into the commercial market. People want to be sure you are reliable. But just work hard, and you will grow a lot. I started out with 12 driveways 2 years ago. As you can see, I have more than tripled my work load by doing a good job, and charging fair prices.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

Brant'sLawnCare;980296 said:


> If you pick up 8 hours of commercial plowing, u will have your hands full with one truck. I have 4 commercial jobs, and a total of 36 houses on top of that. It's pretty crazy around here with a bigger than 4" snow storm. With 2 trucks going, we are both out for about 6-8 hours. If you sign a few commercial accounts and don't get in over your head, you will be able to make money, and do a good job! Personally I hate doing residentials, but they are easier to come by for now. It's tough breaking into the commercial market. People want to be sure you are reliable. But just work hard, and you will grow a lot. I started out with 12 driveways 2 years ago. As you can see, I have more than tripled my work load by doing a good job, and charging fair prices.


it obviously cant be to hard to get into the commercial places if there are lowballers and people that only stay one season at a time and then leave. i think that i could do it and i think that i could do a pretty good job at it myself. aslong as i have a work rep and it grows to be a good one im fine i have refences i could give them and all that good stuff. anyways when you do your bidding do you just use an etimatmate sheet or do you guys acctualy have a bidding sheet? thats were i need the most help at is with starting a billing system and getting lagit estimating sheets out and stuff like that, i am registering my buissness name and stuff this month febuary, and that way i can have sheet mad for billing and get reciepts and stuff made so that way when i show up then will be able to keep things like that on file and too be able to keep track of the billing to and not just have to agree with me? what do you guys think about doing reciepts and stuff like that will that help me get a better rep if i hand wright a recept for the customers?


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## jblatti13 (Jan 24, 2009)

i personaly use quickbooks for all the paper work. i bought the basic edition for 100 bucks, and it has estimates, invoices, statements.... i enter the stuff and mail it out, but also carry blank invoices and estimate sheets with me at all times, then i can leave something if i get a call and im out of the office.

QB doesnt have any estimating software or bidding sheets as far as i know, i used a couple different things over the years for those, but sean adams, a founder of this site and lawnsite, wrote a book on the business, and its mostly lawn stuff and sample pages for different things, but i used one of those lawn bidding sheets, changed it around to make it a snow bid sheet, and it has worked pretty well. if you're interested, PM me your email address and i can send you a copy of mine, i have 2, one is simple for residentials and the other is a little lenghty for commercial with all the details and such.


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## plowzilla (Nov 19, 2004)

the new boss 92;977175 said:


> im adding atleast one more 3/4 ton this summer for myself, my dads looking at a truck and blade aswell alsong as i pick up the work. i only want maybe a couple more, like 2 or 3 walgreens, couple cvs, and then i can add in a couple driveways, i hate driveways to be honest with all you ps members. im more perductive in an open lot bymyself rather then with another truck or bob cat. soo off the you should do this or do that subject, whats the best way to go about getting more commercial accounts for next year, whats the best time to start looking? sorry if i sounded like an a$$


You mentioned picking up a couple of CVS's. I used to do 3 of them in our area. Actually, you may know the one on Geneva road in Winfield. I got those as a sub from a contractor in Springfield (yes, downstate Springfield!). CVS gives all the stores out to one contractor in a region (at least thats how it was 5 years ago). Good luck finding the contractor and getting in. I tried like crazy calling everybody, stopping in stores, calling Corporate until they knew my name by heart. Finally after all that, they told me the contract had been filled for 2 years already. The guy at corporate felt sorry for me and gave me the winning bidders number. I called him and he already had his own subs to take care of them. I learned alot about the snow plow industry that year. P.S. since your so close to me, it would be best if you stayed south of North Ave or else . LOL Good luck.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

plowzilla;980711 said:


> You mentioned picking up a couple of CVS's. I used to do 3 of them in our area. Actually, you may know the one on Geneva road in Winfield. I got those as a sub from a contractor in Springfield (yes, downstate Springfield!). CVS gives all the stores out to one contractor in a region (at least thats how it was 5 years ago). Good luck finding the contractor and getting in. I tried like crazy calling everybody, stopping in stores, calling Corporate until they knew my name by heart. Finally after all that, they told me the contract had been filled for 2 years already. The guy at corporate felt sorry for me and gave me the winning bidders number. I called him and he already had his own subs to take care of them. I learned alot about the snow plow industry that year. P.S. since your so close to me, it would be best if you stayed south of North Ave or else . LOL Good luck.


yup that cvs is right down the street from me, so what your saying is that for like walgreens and cvs you have to go through a big corprate office and you get maultiply cvs's if you are the winning bidder then huh? do you know if the same thing goes for walgreens too? cause i know there are multiply walgreens in my area that i was looking at, not so much cvs but there are a couple and wouldnt mind picking them up, i also no that thoughs would all be salting accounts. what do you have over off north ave,( trust me i dont want your accounts, i would never do another psmember over like that)im up there all the time next time ill stop by and say hi.


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## dealer374 (Jan 7, 2010)

You can also try bing.com (formerly live.com) they have a map feature that will let you free hand an area to get sqaure footage and you can save it if you have a hotmail or msn account.



jblatti13;979767 said:


> when it comes to bidding, do your research here as well. although most of these guys will give you a hard time if you start a post that says "help me price this lot", because almost every sized lot has been answered already. i use google earth myself, locate each site, theres a ruler option on there, measure the lot out, find the obstacles and total sq footage, take a drive by there and see how many cars are normally around, what kinda of traffic, and adjust your price accordingly. i think the standard is an acre should take an hour.
> 45k sq ft=60 minutes... i think that means though that its wide open space, which i have seen very little of around me. before all this, you need to come up with an hourly price, or what you need to make in one hour to cover expenses and make a profit. i think the average is around 100-125 an hour.
> 
> that being said, i picked up a lot this year thats roughly 9k sq ft and they accepted a bid well over 125, because i worked the service angle, and there are constantly cars parked in the lot, its oddly shaped, and the snow goes to one end.
> ...


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## TSherman (Dec 4, 2009)

I do a lot of commercial work, and a few residentials. I find residentials to be a huge pain. These people always want to be first, and always want to wait until the end of a storm to be plowed. This last storm I had to plow a gentleman back in because he wanted to stick with his same $40 bill that he paid in the last storm (snow light enough for a back pack blower) than he did on the most recent one with 15 inches of slush and snow. 

I advertise on craigslist.com for residential, and pick and choose what I want. I generally stick with older americans (less likely to try and negotiate) and I stay away from select foreigners who always want to haggle. Their 15 minutes of haggling costs you money on the street. Residentially rarely wants ice management, which is an issue for your insurance (if you are acutally one to get it). 

Commercial properties are the way to go. Higher hourly, able to run larger crews, and more sensible with product application IMO. Make sure your equipment is tight, your insurance is paid and your guys are behaving and make some money. And if you can only make it 24 hours, step aside and let the big boys play! LOL


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## jblatti13 (Jan 24, 2009)

i see your points sherman, but ive found myself making a decent bit of coin off residential as my primary accounts. maybe i just got lucky, but the accounts ive kept the last 2-3 years have all worked out great. i may not do 10 an hour because there not grouped tight, but i get decent money to do them, always have been paid on time, and the only *****ing ive heard is landscaping timbers outa place or dead grass is the spring.

there is money to be made in the resi market. depending on how tight you can group your houses definitely helps. if you try to jump into more than a few commercials your first year your going to be overwhelmed i can tell you that. the resis are less likely to want salt or any extras, but thats expected. if you get into commercial, your going to make money off the saltings for sure, but you have to be sure you can service all your accounts when they need to be done. just my opinion but to each his own, theres money to be made in either resi or commercial, its just how you line up the work and itll fall into place.


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