# Extreme cold



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Who here is sending their men out to chase a little bit of blowing snow with air temps of -7 and a windchill factor of -40? And I’m not talking about any new accumulations


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

We are not doing any residential sidewalks today. And we have significant new accumulation. 

Non-tractor routes have been combined and we will clear once at this point. Crews are checking in every hour. I don't want anyone working alone in this weather as well as keeping an eye on each other. 

Just trying to keep everything passable at this point. Clear and bare is unrealistic and stupid to think it can happen. A treated walk is covered again in 10-15 minutes.


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## White_Gold11 (Jan 4, 2016)

Had a loader out yesterday doing light drifting. Could not..Would not warm up. Winds were 20-30mph so we waited for wind to die down this morning and now Shovelors out.. Not my happiest day. Everything breaks and it's dangerous for the guys. Slow and steady as they say.


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## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

Finally Snows and y'all have to deal with below zero Maybe some dead batteries. Diesel equipment problems. Jelling fuel. I imagine lots of fuel treatment additives. Forget shoveling. Low visibility. What a nightmare!


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

I just finished site checks an hour ago. A couple slightly drifted sidewalks( they are walkable) and one parking lot with finger drifts that can be driven around. Nobody's going out today. Clean up tomorrow morning.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm thinking the fellas from Canada are chuckling right about now.


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## White_Gold11 (Jan 4, 2016)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> I'm thinking the fellas from Canada are chuckling right about now.


Maybe. It's all about acclamation to a climate. If it's normally-20 everyday then -30 doesn't seem so bad lol.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

It's -33° here,wind chill is -54°


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

News folks said it was " cold enough to freeze vodka"

Seems like fake news to me.

Lol


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## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

On the news they were talking about it being colder than Antarctica. Antarctica was only 9 below yesterday


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

It's the polar vortex!!!!!

Run while you can still move!!


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> We are not doing any residential sidewalks today. And we have significant new accumulation.
> 
> Non-tractor routes have been combined and we will clear once at this point. Crews are checking in every hour. I don't want anyone working alone in this weather as well as keeping an eye on each other.
> 
> Just trying to keep everything passable at this point. Clear and bare is unrealistic and stupid to think it can happen. A treated walk is covered again in 10-15 minutes.


That sucks. Keep that LE over there, don't let any of that reach us today. I don't want to deal with anything new with these temps.

All the public and private schools (colleges too) closed today and tomorrow, mail delivery cancelled, courts, libraries, all other state agencies cancelled, transport companies and numerous other facilities. The new Gov declared the state of emergency.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Charles said:


> On the news they were talking about it being colder than Antarctica. Antarctica was only 9 below yesterday


And it's summer there


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## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

Hydromaster said:


> And it's summer there


I think they failed to mention that in the news story


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Man, that's cold. Better to have an un happy customer, then a dead employee.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Randall Ave said:


> Man, that's cold. Better to have an un happy customer, then a frozen employee.


Fixed it for you..

Frozen people can be thawed out. Microwave, low power, about 45 seconds


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Luther said:


> That sucks. Keep that LE over there, don't let any of that reach us today. I don't want to deal with anything new with these temps.
> 
> All the public and private schools (colleges too) closed today and tomorrow, mail delivery cancelled, courts, libraries, all other state agencies cancelled, transport companies and numerous other facilities. The new Gov declared the state of emergency.


I'll be happy to share...


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

We're finally getting the cold and this morning was 13F at 230am now -12 and windchill is something like -28. Luckily we haven't had much snow, it's all staying literally a few hundred yards of the shore of Lake Erie heading right up to Buffalo. I'm hoping this new additive works, I'm trying HotShot Secrets Winter anti-gel, it's supposed to lower the freezing temp. of diesel to -65.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

I did some drift cleaning up yesterday morning.
Spent about 4 hours yesterday clearing a city block of snow and pushing it to a vacant lot in preparation of a street festival on Saturday. Bare pavement, concrete and grass when we left.
Drove past some sites and noticed some refreezing last night, so I hit them with salt.
The city was plowing and salting at 1am. They used wet salt. My street has about 1/4" of crust on it now. It was-15 at 1am, -20 at 7am. Can't wait for the "there's a windrow across my driveway" calls today. 
Got a call from one of my sidewalk guys last night. His grandmother owns 2 little apartment buildings and her snow contractor was a no show this past event. He asked if I could plow them today. Told him I'd see what it looks like in the morning. I'm guessing they're rock hard. Even if I felt like beating up my plow, I doubt I could do anything.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Luther said:


> That sucks. Keep that LE over there, don't let any of that reach us today. I don't want to deal with anything new with these temps.
> 
> All the public and private schools (colleges too) closed today and tomorrow, mail delivery cancelled, courts, libraries, all other state agencies cancelled, transport companies and numerous other facilities. The new Gov declared the state of emergency.


Mark has made it clear to me in no uncertain terms that he Loves our new governor and her progressive thinking...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Mark has made it clear to me in no uncertain terms that he Loves our new governor and her progressive thinking...


Yeah...that's it.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> News folks said it was " cold enough to freeze vodka"
> 
> Seems like fake news to me.
> 
> Lol


I own freezers that can freeze alcohol.. usually like -35


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

tip of the hat to you guys, dang that's cold,I'm power washing my truck after salting last night ,sunny and 31! that cold air hits us tonight and thur,moderates to 4 tonight and 16 thur,stay safe ,don't lose any ears,fingers or toes Thumbs Up


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

One of the fellas here posted photos of the lighthouse on one of the great lakes a few years back. Maybe Lake Michigan ?????

The island / peninsula (can't remember) looked like Jack frost's castle. Wonder what it's looking like now ?


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> One of the fellas here posted photos of the lighthouse on one of the great lakes a few years back. Maybe Lake Michigan ?????
> 
> The island / peninsula (can't remember) looked like Jack frost's castle. Wonder what it's looking like now ?


I doubt it was me, but here is our lighthouse. Hard to see it through the "sea fog"........










Geese are probably wishing they went farther South this year, the open water is almost gone....










Farm fields look like the surface of the moon....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

What's the yellow thing?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What's the yellow thing?


Global warming.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What's the yellow thing?


 Is it the sun? I shout them out if I think I know. :laugh:


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Sea fog was pretty cool. Just drove past Bradford beach. I couldn't believe how many people were out there watching it. Should be a pretty good sunrise tomorrow. Might have to drive to the lake in the morning.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What's the yellow thing?


I actually wish it wasn't out, the temps probably wouldn't drop as low at night if it was overcast....


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

It was out all day here actually... Started to melt a couple spots plus gave me a little tan on the legs...


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Ajlawn1 said:


> It was out all day here actually... Started to melt a couple spots plus gave me a little tan on the legs...


Insulated jorts today?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Would be nice if everyone followed instructions and left their equipment running...I don't care if the stuff runs for 48 hours straight.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

jomama45 said:


> I doubt it was me, but here is our lighthouse. Hard to see it through the "sea fog"........
> 
> View attachment 189508
> 
> ...


Pretty shots of your horizon.

This is it here, although not today

http://99wfmk.com/st-joseph-lighthouse-2018/


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Would be nice if everyone followed instructions and left their equipment running...I don't care if the stuff runs for 48 hours straight.


My big truck and the backhoe started at 5am this morning. We had the truck running last night for a while to put fuel in it.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> My big truck and the backhoe started at 5am this morning. We had the truck running last night for a while to put fuel in it.


That's nice...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

LapeerLandscape said:


> My big truck and the backhoe started at 5am this morning. We had the truck running last night for a while to put fuel in it.


Do they have any compression...?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'm superstitious like Phil said in a different thread...we don't shut stuff down during an event unless its necessary. Seems like that's when something wont restart.

Or it's because we both had 6.0s.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

I actually brought two pieces back home into the shop knowing they'd start, if needed we'd run them back out...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm superstitious like Phil said in a different thread...we don't shut stuff down during an event unless its necessary. Seems like that's when something wont restart.
> 
> Or it's because we both had 6.0s.


All my stuff always started out leaving a heated garage, my rule was, do not shut it off, not until your done and its back home


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Do they have any compression...?


Not after a 1/2 can of starting fluid.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

You no when you have enough ether when its dripping out of the air filter.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Randall Ave said:


> You no when you have enough ether when its dripping out of the air filter.


You ever see any trucks come in that have Webasto self-contained engine heaters? I know a couple guys that have them on their pickups and on a Snocat. Pretty cool unit if you don't have electricity close by or at all.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

All you guys saying you are not going out in this weather but willing to bet any of you wouldn't hesitate to pull the sleds out in these temps and go ripping around at a 100+ mph. Don't get me wrong, I am not happy about being out in this weather for snow removal and I have been on a sled going a 100+ in -30 weather with a smile on my face.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So one subs tractor won't move...took an hour and a half just to get it started only to find it won't move.

Really need an @Aerospace Eng jump box thingy.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kimber750 said:


> All you guys saying you are not going out in this weather but willing to bet any of you wouldn't hesitate to pull the sleds out in these temps and go ripping around at a 100+ mph. Don't get me wrong, I am not happy about being out in this weather for snow removal and I have been on a sled going a 100+ in -30 weather with a smile on my face.


I went once when actual temp was around 0, wimp chill was -30° below not riding. Went for about 3 hours and decided it really wasn't fun. Had icicles on my eyelashes and stache...and it was just fricking cold.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Yuk


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> Yuk
> 
> View attachment 189547


Looks balmy from where I am. -19 wind chill around-40.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

BUFF said:


> You ever see any trucks come in that have Webasto self-contained engine heaters? I know a couple guys that have them on their pickups and on a Snocat. Pretty cool unit if you don't have electricity close by or at all.


Dad had one on his truck in the 60s.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

all I will say was what a day yesterday was... 

Today is the “calm before the storm”

I dread more the days that follow these cold days when everything thaws out.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

I put new windows insulation doors the whole nine yards when I bought it. The house is not cold but in some parts of the house you can feel cold air trying to get in. I guess a old house will always be a old house. Historic district my butt. Should of put up a new one.

Never noticed it till this cold weather came.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> all I will say was what a day yesterday was...
> 
> Today is the "calm before the storm"
> 
> I dread more the days that follow these cold days when everything thaws out.


I have a feeling I'll be thawing pipes in a 1925 duplex. 2nd floor kitchen sink plumbing runs up an exterior wall. We didn't open that wall when we remodeled the 1st floor unit. There's a dryer vent in the basement directly below the pipes going up the wall. Only 3 locations in the building with galvanized pipes, everything else has pex. Its the only 1 on an exterior wall.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

EWSplow said:


> I have a feeling I'll be thawing pipes in a 1925 duplex. 2nd floor kitchen sink plumbing runs up an exterior wall. We didn't open that wall when we remodeled the 1st floor unit. There's a dryer vent in the basement directly below the pipes going up the wall. Only 3 locations in the building with galvanized pipes, everything else has pex. Its the only 1 on an exterior wall.


Only had one call on plumbing side so far. Everything has been heating thus far.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

kimber750 said:


> All you guys saying you are not going out in this weather but willing to bet any of you wouldn't hesitate to pull the sleds out in these temps and go ripping around at a 100+ mph. Don't get me wrong, I am not happy about being out in this weather for snow removal and I have been on a sled going a 100+ in -30 weather with a smile on my face.


This reminds me of listening to my dad complain back in the 70s about so and so that lived near us that couldnt make it to work when it snowed but he always made it out on bowling night no matter what.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Only had one call on plumbing side so far. Everything has been heating thus far.


Was in an old building last week. I think I posted in Matt's rants. 2 broilers. The old maintenance engineer had named them mutt and jeff. Breakers, valves, etc had labels either mutt or jeff. I had to figure out who was who. :laugh:


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Last night I had just gone to bed and I got one of those emergency alerts on my phone like an amber alert only this was from Consumers energy our natural gas company asking everyone to turn their thermostat down to 65 until after friday.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Last night I had just gone to bed and I got one of those emergency alerts on my phone like an amber alert only this was from Consumers energy our natural gas company asking everyone to turn their thermostat down to 65 until after friday.


I was just talking about that last night while beating intake louvers closed on a roof while another guy held the weed burner on the ice block jamming them open...

We were commenting on how much volume of gas these lines are flowing right now it is impressive that they can keep up with the huge demand. Shows the volume that high pressure can really carry. Makes you wonder if the gas company could do "rolling blackouts" like the power company does in the summer?


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> I was just talking about that last night while beating intake louvers closed on a roof while another guy held the weed burner on the ice block jamming them open...
> 
> We were commenting on how much volume of gas these lines are flowing right now it is impressive that they can keep up with the huge demand. Shows the volume that high pressure can really carry. Makes you wonder if the gas company could do "rolling blackouts" like the power company does in the summer?


I find it hard to believe they have that much reserve to meet the duration and area of the cold but I'm sure they have it calculated out.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

LapeerLandscape said:


> This reminds me of listening to my dad complain back in the 70s about so and so that lived near us that couldnt make it to work when it snowed but he always made it out on bowling night no matter what.


I love the old timers around here going on and on about how "it used to be cold like this all the time back in the day... we just put up with it. it was -40 with -80 degree wind chills for weeks on end, don't be a such a panzie"

How come no one has any record of this as we just set some new records here...  I'm gunna toss the BS flag pretty quickly here...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Just a bit outside... I think we needed to hit -22 for a record...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Just a bit outside... I think we needed to hit -22 for a record...
> 
> View attachment 189560


We hit the -27 we needed here for the record last night. Thumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)




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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)




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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> View attachment 189561
> View attachment 189561


Beth called a snow dog?


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

That’s


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

And that's why I love winter...you just don't see that in the summer.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Western1 said:


> That's


I believe so...never seen it that bright.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> And that's why I love winter...you just don't see that in the summer.


Pat had a super impressive one a couple days ago from around here.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Friend of mine an hour north of us showed -40° air temp yesterday, -33° was as cold as I saw here, WC -54° , we did warm up to -16° , WC -28°. Right now -22° ,WC -37°


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

jonniesmooth said:


> Friend of mine an hour north of us showed -40° air temp yesterday, -33° was as cold as I saw here, WC -54° , we did warm up to -16° , WC -28°. Right now -22° ,WC -37°


Nice


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

jonniesmooth said:


> Friend of mine an hour north of us showed -40° air temp yesterday, -33° was as cold as I saw here, WC -54° , we did warm up to -16° , WC -28°. Right now -22° ,WC -37°


That's nice?


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Guess I should not complain at 3degress here in NY 
Be safe guys that’s nuts


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So one subs tractor won't move...took an hour and a half just to get it started only to find it won't move.
> 
> Really need an @Aerospace Eng jump box thingy.


It's probably too late, but it is probably too cold for the fluid to move the valves. If it is a combined transmission/hydraulic fluid reservoir, moving the hydraulics back and forth will warm the fluid up.

For the next polar vortex....you can make yourself a preheater that will run off of propane, similar to "Red Dragon" ones that are used for piston aircraft.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/08-04315manual.pdf

Or.....

https://www.amazon.com/DeWALT-DXH70...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=W9T6BXBVJ9RT5ZWXTVHC


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## scottr (Oct 10, 2013)

jonniesmooth said:


> Friend of mine an hour north of us showed -40° air temp yesterday, -33° was as cold as I saw here, WC -54° , we did warm up to -16° , WC -28°. Right now -22° ,WC -37°


Ha, I send a message to my buddy on the Iron Range giving him a hard time, it showed -34F there and I had 20F above  I like when this happens.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

36 here after the sun just set. Feels like summer after yesterday.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JMHConstruction said:


> 36 here after the sun just set. Feels like summer after yesterday.


Hit 53* today, full sun all day and it's going down behind the Mtn's.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Just saw the dew point was-20. Why even report the dew point at this point?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

jomama45 said:


> Just saw the dew point was-20. Why even report the dew point at this point?


So you don't leave the house without your Carmex...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

jomama45 said:


> Just saw the dew point was-20. Why even report the dew point at this point?


It drives grocery sales up


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> So you don't leave the house without your Carmex...


Try Corona Ointment:
https://www.mannapro.com/products/equine/wound-care/corona-ointment
It's great for cracked skin or chapped skin and cuts.


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## sota (Jan 31, 2011)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> News folks said it was " cold enough to freeze vodka"
> 
> Seems like fake news to me.
> 
> Lol


The freezing point of 80 proof vodka is -26.95 C or -16.51 F


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

I guess we had “frost quakes” happen over the last couple days....never even heard of that until one of my guys called me and told me about it today


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

plow4beer said:


> I guess we had "frost quakes" happen over the last couple days....never even heard of that until one of my guys called me and told me about it today


Read a story aboot them today, Chicago area was the location in the article I red


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

ya, it would’ve been cool to experience.....but not as cool as seeing my oldest son graduate from army basic training today:usflag:Thumbs Up


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Plus they had these for me


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

plow4beer said:


> View attachment 189634
> Plus they had these for me


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

EWSplow said:


>


I like it...but then again, there's isn't many beers I don't like.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1090779246090481665
https://nypost.com/2019/01/31/polar-vortex-freezes-womans-hair-in-place/amp/


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

plow4beer said:


> View attachment 189634
> Plus they had these for me


I got into to those pretty deep a few years back when on the east coast, better that most domestic beer.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> I got into to those pretty deep a few years back when on the east coast, better that most domestic beer.


The Black and Tan are mulch better.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> The Black and Tan are mulch better.


coffee beer....let me guess, you also wear birkenstocks & manpris?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

plow4beer said:


> coffee beer....let me guess, you also wear birkenstocks & manpris?


https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/216528/black-and-tan/

FYI & hold the coffee


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Hydromaster said:


> https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/216528/black-and-tan/
> 
> FYI & hold the coffee


Meh...I know about it. Like I said, not many beers I don't like...just that I obviously don't get excited about the same ones mediocre mark does


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

plow4beer said:


> coffee beer....let me guess, you also wear birkenstocks & manpris?


SKWBE...just because I like beer that has some substance doesn't mean I'm a hippie.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> SKWBE...just because I like beer that has some substance doesn't mean I'm a hippie.


Well I was going to say shouldn't you be pre treating, but it's probably too cold up there still isn't it?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JMHConstruction said:


> Well I was going to say shouldn't you be pre treating, but it's probably too cold up there still isn't it?


Post treating.

Have accounts that vary from 98% bare to icy hard pack. Wish all the treated ones were bare but they're not.

Roads are all hard pack/ice.


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## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

I read where they stopped delivering beer in some places because the beer would freeze. Now that would be an emergency situation


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> SKWBE...just because I like beer that has some substance doesn't mean I'm a hippie.


Sure...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Charles said:


> I read where they stopped delivering beer in some places because the beer would freeze. Now that would be an emergency situation


Don't even talk like that. Around 9 tonight, me and the wife will be at the bar eating. I will be drinking.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Post treating.
> 
> Have accounts that vary from 98% bare to icy hard pack. Wish all the treated ones were bare but they're not.
> 
> Roads are all hard pack/ice.


And, we got an overnight dusting which doesn't help. There's plenty of salt down.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)




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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

EWSplow said:


> And, we got an overnight dusting which doesn't help. There's plenty of salt down.


I was about halfway through an account when a shower hit...everything was burning off nicely up until then.

I give up...


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Philbilly2 said:


> Pat had a super impressive one a couple days ago from around here.


That kinda freaked me out, never seen one before.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I was about halfway through an account when a shower hit...everything was burning off nicely up until then.
> 
> I give up...


We're finally above zero. FYI, the normal high for today is 30.
Hoping to get some lots scraped off this afternoon.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I was about halfway through an account when a shower hit...everything was burning off nicely up until then.
> 
> I give up...


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

EWSplow said:


> I have a feeling I'll be thawing pipes in a 1925 duplex. 2nd floor kitchen sink plumbing runs up an exterior wall. We didn't open that wall when we remodeled the 1st floor unit. There's a dryer vent in the basement directly below the pipes going up the wall. Only 3 locations in the building with galvanized pipes, everything else has pex. Its the only 1 on an exterior wall.


My temporary solution yesterday. Hope its working. 5000w 220v heater.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

EWSplow said:


> My temporary solution yesterday. Hope its working. 5000w 220v heater.
> View attachment 189643


Maybe add one of those pumps that always makes sure your water is hot by taking lukewarm water from the hot side and pushing it to the cold side. Both pipes will have flow, nothing freezes, and the tenant will be happier since they never have to run the tap to get hot water.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Maybe add one of those pumps that always makes sure your water is hot by taking lukewarm water from the hot side and pushing it to the cold side. Both pipes will have flow, nothing freezes, and the tenant will be happier since they never have to run the tap to get hot water.


Would have to open a 2 story wall to do it.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

EWSplow said:


> Would have to open a 2 story wall to do it.


Put it under the kitchen sink and span the hot and cold there. You probably have power there you could tap for the pump.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Put it under the kitchen sink and span the hot and cold there. You probably have power there you could tap for the pump.


https://www.amazon.com/Watts-500800...ocphy=9021691&hvtargid=pla-350581636251&psc=1

@EWSplow 
This is what Dennis is referring to.

And yes, the work, have installed many of them in old properties with pipe freezing issues. Just pushes the hot water threw the cold back to the heater.

It is a hillbilly fix in the eyes of a plumber, but if hillbilly works, hillbilly it up!


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Watts-500800...ocphy=9021691&hvtargid=pla-350581636251&psc=1
> 
> @EWSplow
> This is what Dennis is referring to.
> ...


We've installed actual circulating systems in new homes, but wasn't familiar with this setup. 
I presume there's a check valve in the tee or something?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

EWSplow said:


> We've installed actual circulating systems in new homes, but wasn't familiar with this setup.
> I presume there's a check valve in the tee or something?


yes to the check. It takes the hot and pushes it back down the cold piping back to the heater. Yes it makes your cold water piping hot, but it will keep it from freezing.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> yes to the check. It takes the hot and pushes it back down the cold piping back to the heater. Yes it makes your cold water piping hot, but it will keep it from freezing.


I'll have to look at the cold piping. Not sure what else is on that distribution line. I think the laundry sink below and 1st floor kitchen. 
We've done gravity circulation to long runs on some older homes.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

The one I was thinking of had the pump under the sink in the farthest run, and used a thermostat on the hot water pipe. I don’t recall the brand, orceven if they are dtill made.

This one goes near the hwh and appears to have a timer and thermostat? Might be an eadier install and doesn’t use ip vsluable under-sink space.

Regardless, that’s the concept I was writing about, as it doesn’t require any return line plumbing.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Aerospace Eng said:


> The one I was thinking of had the pump under the sink in the farthest run, and used a thermostat on the hot water pipe. I don't recall the brand, orceven if they are dtill made.
> 
> This one goes near the hwh and appears to have a timer and thermostat? Might be an eadier install and doesn't use ip vsluable under-sink space.
> 
> Regardless, that's the concept I was writing about, as it doesn't require any return line plumbing.


Under counter version

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81xBUUn-V5L.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/Laing-LHB081...words=under+sink+hot+water+recirculating+pump


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Philbilly2 said:


> Under counter version
> 
> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81xBUUn-V5L.pdf
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Laing-LHB081...words=under+sink+hot+water+recirculating+pump


So in your experience, which of the two hillbilly fixes works better in the long run, or what would make you choose one over the other?


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Aerospace Eng said:


> So in your experience, which of the two hillbilly fixes works better in the long run, or what would make you choose one over the other?


Good question. 
This is new to me. Not up on retrofits as I should be.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

6 of one 1/2 a dozen of the other.

If you have just one line that freezes, I would say to go with the undercounter, but typically power is not right like as it is on the heater in a mechanical room, so the water heater one is an easier install as the water heater mounted one will still push that same line as it would with the undercounter due to the tee install location being there.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

How much would it cost to let the faucet
drip for a few days?


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Hydromaster said:


> How much would it cost to let the faucet
> drip for a few days?


Tried and failed.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Hydromaster said:


> How much would it cost to let the faucet
> drip for a few days?


There is actually a formula for that surprisingly enough...

15,140 drips = a gallon


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> There is actually a formula for that surprisingly enough...
> 
> 15,140 drips = a gallon


I lived in a place for a while and when It got cold the city would come by and ask you to let your faucet drip so the pipes in the road leading to your house didn't freeze.

If the line froze they come by with a great big truck mounted welder, hook up the leads, crank it up and heat the pipe.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> There is actually a formula for that surprisingly enough...
> 
> 15,140 drips = a gallon


Sounds like how many licks to the center of a tootsie pop.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Hydromaster said:


> I lived in a place for a while and when It got cold the city would come by and ask you to let your faucet drip so the pipes in the road leading to your house didn't freeze.
> 
> If the line froze they come by with a great big truck mounted welder, hook up the leads, crank it up and heat the pipe.


Happened here in 2013 the frost got down in the ground close to 5 feet in areas that had no snow cover. Our code in our area is 42" to bury a service.

Spend quite a few days non stop thawing services, jetting frozen sewers, what a train wreck.

They did the same thing in a town that a buddies system lives in. They said to let the faucets drip. She did for a few days then decided she knew better than the city did and guess what the outcome was on that one.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

EWSplow said:


> Sounds like how many licks to the center of a tootsie pop.


3... 3 is the answer


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Aerospace Eng said:


> So in your experience, which of the two *Philbilly* fixes works better in the long run, or what would make you choose one over the other?


Thumbs Up


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

BUFF said:


> Thumbs Up


I wish I had the patent on them. :laugh:


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Philbilly2 said:


> 3... 3 is the answer


No idea....I'm Mr. Owl


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

plow4beer said:


> coffee beer....let me guess, you also wear birkenstocks & manpris?


Jort manpris


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

m_ice said:


> Jort manpris


With your high roller Coach accessories...?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> With your high roller Coach accessories...?


Had to goooogil that..... seems odd a man would know aboot women's purses...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BUFF said:


> Had to goooogil that..... seems odd a man would know aboot women's purses...





m_ice said:


> We have a shindig this afternoon that my wife insist I go to. Its black tie and I said I will compromise on nice jean's, a collared shirt, and a sweater over that...she agreed with one stipulation.
> I swap my wallet out for the new 1 she got me for Christmas???
> View attachment 188355
> 
> ...


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Watts-500800...ocphy=9021691&hvtargid=pla-350581636251&psc=1
> 
> @EWSplow
> This is what Dennis is referring to.
> ...


Might be a moot point now. Pipe burst. Since we have to replumb, going to try to use an interior wall. 
Only saving grace is lower unit is between tenants.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Nice save......Thumbs Up


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

EWSplow said:


> My temporary solution yesterday. Hope its working. 5000w 220v heater.
> View attachment 189643


I have one of those in my garage works good for taking the chill out of the air.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BUFF said:


> Nice save......Thumbs Up


Least damage if we can go up this wall and fish pex across the ceiling.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

GAME ON!

Started yesterday at about 11 am.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> GAME ON!
> 
> Started yesterday at about 11 am.
> 
> ...


They should have left the water drpping.


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Nice! Keep the register ringing Phil!!!


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

LapeerLandscape said:


> They should have left the water drpping.


Not sure how you do that on a fire suppression system... 

Domestic did not freeze due to constant flow, but since on the same service school had to be let out. I dont think the kids were to mad.  1 1/2 day week of school


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Not sure how you do that on a fire suppression system...


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> GAME ON!
> 
> Started yesterday at about 11 am.
> 
> ...


I'm always amazed at how far a fitting will fly when they blow. I've seen tees and couplers on boilers chip a foundation wall 40' from where they originated.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

plow4beer said:


> coffee beer....let me guess, you also wear birkenstocks & manpris?





Ajlawn1 said:


> With your high roller Coach accessories...?


I was suggesting Mark wears jort manpris with birkenstocks

And yes to Coach


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Philbilly2 said:


> Not sure how you do that on a fire suppression system...
> 
> Domestic did not freeze due to constant flow, but since on the same service school had to be let out. I dont think the kids were to mad.  1 1/2 day week of school


I'm surprised It's not a dry pipe system in your climate.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Aerospace Eng said:


> I'm surprised It's not a dry pipe system in your climate.


My guess is cost. 
I saw 2 this week but they failed because the buildings were empty, the owners were trying to keep cost down and had the heat set below 50 degrees. Poor insulation and building design along with not being able to keep up was their downfall.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Aerospace Eng said:


> I'm surprised It's not a dry pipe system in your climate.


I was thinking the same thing. I believe it depends on the code for the building.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> Not sure how you do that on a fire suppression system...
> 
> Domestic did not freeze due to constant flow, but since on the same service school had to be let out. I dont think the kids were to mad.  1 1/2 day week of school


I would think they would have drains to the outside somewhere you could possibly crack open...? I think they are supposed to be drained and filled yearly I thought but could be different for different fire codes maybe etc... Now obviously you drop some pressure if its called into action, but would think its minimal to keep a small flow going...

I drained mine back in Nov as the gas was still not turned on yet and have not filled it back up yet... It had several different drains leading outside. Still have not got a straight answer if I am required to have it on or not, so don't ask don't tell....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Freak thing as usual... That one is in a boiler room at a school. It should never be that cold in there to freeze. The make up air lovers were open as the boilers were in full fire along with an actuator going out on an roof top exaust vent. (Kinda like leaving your front and back door open) The actuator is the cause of this. School has been there since the 50's or 60's I would guess and never had this happen before.

Wind whipped threw while it was cold, froze it all, when warm came in... bam... we have a flood on our hands.

And as for draining it when it gets cold, you should not have to, but either way if you did drain it, they cannot have kids in the building so not an option in a public space. Not to mention you have to have 24hr fire watch with no suppression system active.

Dry system would have still froze. This is the main coming in at the backflow. Dry system would still have to be supplied with water from this connection point.

These bad boys make a couple BTU and keep the room pretty warm typically. ( I
Am on a catwalk about 15 feet in the air. they are each bigger than a tandem dump easy)


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

EWSplow said:


> I'm always amazed at how far a fitting will fly when they blow. I've seen tees and couplers on boilers chip a foundation wall 40' from where they originated.


Measured one half of a 4" cast 90 at 32' where it hit the other side of a boiler room this am... 

Once we get strung out on sleep you start betting on stupid stuff...


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Measured one half of a 4" cast 90 at 32' where it hit the other side of a boiler room this am...
> 
> Once we get strung out on sleep you start betting on stupid stuff...


I always wanted to witness it, but from a protective shield, maybe like the bomb squad uses. 
Was in a building last week, a 1/2 tee missed a huge storefront window by a few inches.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Philbilly2 said:


> GAME ON!
> 
> Started yesterday at about 11 am.
> 
> ...


We are swamped with work, we are pulling cruising from the west coast and the Southwest.

I'm going back to a nursing facility in Huntington Indiana. They couldn't shut the water off. The one room filled up with a foot of water before it busted the doors on, ran across the courtyard into the next wing. 38000 square foot facility.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

1olddogtwo said:


> We are swamped with work, we are pulling cruising from the west coast and the Southwest.
> 
> I'm going back to a nursing facility in Huntington Indiana. They couldn't shut the water off. The one room filled up with a foot of water before it busted the doors on, ran across the courtyard into the next wing. 38000 square foot facility.


One of my guys said that your company was mopping up at the factory in DeKalb that he was repairing the frozen stuff at. Not sure if it was your branch or not.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Could be I'm not sure try not to get involved with local jobs unless they need power or specialty equipment.

Right now, I have 3 + meg of power running in Minnesota, Indiana Michigan Illinois.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> One of my guys said that your company was mopping up at the factory in DeKalb that he was repairing the frozen stuff at. Not sure if it was your branch or not.


My 2 year stint in DeKalb sure brings back some cloudy memories


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Good old NIU

I didn't go to school. But I have plenty of foggy parking tickets from there.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

A little ice dam going on here. Only about a foot higher than the gutter.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Never seen cast pipes blow apart like that.

Amazing...

Thanks for sharing that. Between blown up pipes, and toilet tanks, it's been an interesting winter to say the least.

Wife is an insurance agent. Received hundreds of calls the last two weeks for frozen pipes in residential homes. Nothing as explosive seen here


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Freak thing as usual... That one is in a boiler room at a school. It should never be that cold in there to freeze. The make up air lovers were open as the boilers were in full fire along with an actuator going out on an roof top exaust vent. (Kinda like leaving your front and back door open) The actuator is the cause of this. School has been there since the 50's or 60's I would guess and never had this happen before.
> 
> Wind whipped threw while it was cold, froze it all, when warm came in... bam... we have a flood on our hands.
> 
> ...


How'd you like the job of shoveling coal in those bad boyz?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> GAME ON!
> 
> Started yesterday at about 11 am.
> 
> ...


Just a few rolls of some flex-seal and you'd be
Good to go.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> Just a few rolls of some flex-seal and you'd be
> Good to go.


That's at least a 8 roll job....


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

EWSplow said:


> How'd you like the job of shoveling coal in those bad boyz?


You won't be cold....


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

EWSplow said:


> I did some drift cleaning up yesterday morning.
> Spent about 4 hours yesterday clearing a city block of snow and pushing it to a vacant lot in preparation of a street festival on Saturday. Bare pavement, concrete and grass when we left.
> Drove past some sites and noticed some refreezing last night, so I hit them with salt.
> The city was plowing and salting at 1am. They used wet salt. My street has about 1/4" of crust on it now. It was-15 at 1am, -20 at 7am. Can't wait for the "there's a windrow across my driveway" calls today.
> Got a call from one of my sidewalk guys last night. His grandmother owns 2 little apartment buildings and her snow contractor was a no show this past event. He asked if I could plow them today. Told him I'd see what it looks like in the morning. I'm guessing they're rock hard. Even if I felt like beating up my plow, I doubt I could do anything.


Mitten fest.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

cjames808 said:


> Mitten fest.


Thumbs Up


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> Good old NIU
> 
> I didn't go to school. But I have plenty of foggy parking tickets from there.


It turns out I wasn't fit for their philosophy...they asked me to leave early


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

BUFF said:


> You won't be cold....


Heard it from my great-grandfather and tell my guys now the heat is in the tools


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