# timbrens vs airshocks vs new springs



## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

hi I have a 97 wrangler with a unimount plow cutdown to 5 foot 10 inches and when i lift it the driveshaft hits the exhaust.new coil springs can be made to support the 500lbs but I like the ride when there is no plow on it,timbrens will take care of the rubbing problem but does not help the front end drop when the plow is lifted, air shocks seem like a good solution but are said to be unreliable..what have others experienced?


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## ss502gmc (Sep 12, 2008)

I personally love the way air shocks ride, but dont last worth a damn in my experience. Debris gets up under the bags causing leaks or the fittings leak or they just plain rot out after a couple years. I put 3 sets in my 94 gmc 1500. Kept getting new ones under warranty is the only reason i did it. I would def recommend airbags from airlift or firestone. Ive had the firestones in my truck in my sig for bout 2 years now hauling a 15,000lb fifth wheel car hauler 1000 miles a week, plus off roading in mud and gravel, and plowing new england roads of course and I wouldnt trade them for anything. Best $200 investment ive made! Im thinking of timbrens for my truck in the front now but undecided. I havent done anything to it before so why start now? I dunno. The rear of my truck sits at stock height with 2 yds of salt plus tailgate spreader cuz of the airbags and the front drops about 1 1/2 inches with the plow lifted so its kinda annoying. But IMHO id go with the light duty bags in the front where its a solid front axle. Should solve all ur squatting issues. GoodLuck


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

thanks for the info, do the airlifts hold air or do you need an onboard air compressor?firestone doesnt list any front air bags but they do have compressors


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

i heard the air lines get knocked off by snow on air lifts


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Properly install air lines will survive.

Neither air lift nor Firestone make a front kit for a TJ. 

air shocks, timbrens or different springs are your choices.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

They dont "make" air shocks for the front of jeeps ether. 
course they dont "make" a unimount that is 5' 10"

Ive used air shocks for years, you can rupture the bladders but autozone has a lifetime warrenty, and I think they are hands down better than Timbrins or air bags.

JMO

5 foot 10 inch is one narrow plow. Why?


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

city sidewalks,,works great for residential driveways off tight city alleys,,what brand are your shocks?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

theplowmeister;1321537 said:


> They dont "make" air shocks for the front of jeeps ether.
> 
> No but they're easy to spec out, as you know. No (or minimal) modification involved
> 
> 5 foot 10 inch is one narrow plow. Why?


it's even narrower angled, that's like 59/60 inches.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Monroe and Gabriel both make air shocks.


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

basher;1321717 said:


> it's even narrower angled, that's like 59/60 inches.


that is about the width of a city sidewalk in south minneapolis


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

theplowmeister;1321801 said:


> Monroe and Gabriel both make air shocks.


i couldnt find a 97 tj listing with either of those companies,i suppose i could modify something but i went with timbrens today


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

ok i went with timbrens, the off road company i am working with said air bags wont hold up, and i dont like a harsher ride so heavy duty springs was ruled out


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Bill Shy;1321984 said:


> i couldnt find a 97 tj listing with either of those companies,i suppose i could modify something but i went with timbrens today


So I should take the set I installed on a TJ last week off? What about the YJ a did a couple weeks ago??



Bill Shy;1321990 said:


> ok i went with timbrens, the off road company i am working with said air bags wont hold up, and i dont like a harsher ride so heavy duty springs was ruled out


Dang Plowmeister they won't hold up. Guess you have been riding on faith all these years.:laughing::laughing:


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

basher;1322124 said:


> So I should take the set I installed on a TJ last week off? What about the YJ a did a couple weeks ago??
> 
> Dang Plowmeister they won't hold up. Guess you have been riding on faith all these years.:laughing::laughing:


what is the part number because i cant find them listed, particularily worked with Monroe,maybe i will contact monroe corporation


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

this is from snotech,i rest my case
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I can get you a set of Monroe Max-Air. They require slightly enlarging the bottom mounting holes. The jeep has 2 7/16” bolt centers while the shocks would be 2 ½” bolt centers. Open the holes to 3/8 instead of 5/16 add a washer and done. You may have to drill a hole in the shock tower to run the airline though but that again is no big deal. Monroe doesn’t list the application.
==============
and i will order a set


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Correct they don't list them, doesn't mean they won't work. Manufacturers only support vehicles for around 10 years. After that the volume of sales doesn't justify the cost. Plowmeister has been using Airshocks forever. At one time Jeep had a part number of their own for air shocks you could get them right from jeep. I'm running a set of MAX-AIRs on a YJ wrangler, they are a ford truck rear application. 

Snowtech (who is a pretty savvy dude) explained how to make a set work. Notice you enlarge the holes in the shock (not the jeep) by 1/16"  Drilling a hole thought the shock tower(if you search the site there is a picture) simply protects the airline and relieves tension on the lines and bladder.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Bill Shy;1321990 said:


> ok i went with timbrens, the off road company i am working with said air bags wont hold up, and i dont like a harsher ride so heavy duty springs was ruled out


I cant say much about the off road shop if they OK ed the timbrens. The timbrens will reduce your axle articulation AND will ride rough, Lets think about this, the timbrins is a block of rubber that acts like a spring so every time the axle goes up (more than the axle-timbren gap) it hits the added spring (timbren) even without the plow.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Timbrens will do the job, wouldn't be my choice but vi'va la différence



theplowmeister;1322199 said:


> I cant say much about the off road shop if they OK ed the timbrens.
> 
> They must kow what they're doing this is a pro install only since you have to remove the springs. http://www.timbren.com/timbren-application-guides/application-pdfs/JFTJ.pdf I'm suprised they didn't suggest spring adjusters http://www.quadratec.com/products/16156_000.htm or the one with the adjustable bump stop http://www.quadratec.com/products/16156_020.htm
> 
> The timbrens will reduce your axle articulation AND will ride rough, Lets think about this, the timbrins is a block of rubber that acts like a spring so every time the axle goes up (more than the axle-timbren gap) it hits the added spring (timbren) even without the plow.


But it will help with high speed cornering, kills a lot of body roll.


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

basher;1322190 said:


> Correct they don't list them, doesn't mean they won't work. Manufacturers only support vehicles for around 10 years. After that the volume of sales doesn't justify the cost. Plowmeister has been using Airshocks forever. At one time Jeep had a part number of their own for air shocks you could get them right from jeep. I'm running a set of MAX-AIRs on a YJ wrangler, they are a ford truck rear application.
> 
> Snowtech (who is a pretty savvy dude) explained how to make a set work. Notice you enlarge the holes in the shock (not the jeep) by 1/16"  Drilling a hole thought the shock tower(if you search the site there is a picture) simply protects the airline and relieves tension on the lines and bladder.


the snow plow guy at Park Jeep in Burnsville Mn , name is Don, said that jeep quit making the air shocks because they were alot of trouble,he recommends timbrens


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

theplowmeister;1322199 said:


> I cant say much about the off road shop if they OK ed the timbrens. The timbrens will reduce your axle articulation AND will ride rough, Lets think about this, the timbrins is a block of rubber that acts like a spring so every time the axle goes up (more than the axle-timbren gap) it hits the added spring (timbren) even without the plow.


ok since it is just a "block of rubber" on the top what will make it ride rough?
what is angle articulation?does this mean it wont steer quite as sharp or tight with timbrens?
this from sdtrucksprings
Features
2,400 lbs. Level Load Capacity
Reduces sag and sway
Eliminate vehicle from bottoming out
Perfect for handling heavy cargo loads
*Ride quality unaffected when not loaded
Sold as Pair (left and right)*
LIFETIME WARRANTY
Installation Instructions
Instructions for Installing JFTJ Timbren Suspension Kit


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

sorry to shout,hard to know how big and bold the text will be ahead of time


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Bill Shy;1320931 said:


> ,timbrens will take care of the rubbing problem but does not help the front end drop when the plow is lifted


Then what are they solving?

Ask your off road experts to explain articulation to you and ask these questions at the same time. 
How much travel does the suspension have before contacting the timbren when the plow is not installed? 
How far will the front drop when the plow is lifted?
What are they charging to install? 
What effect will they have on the ride when the plow is not installed?
How will it effect the articulation?


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

basher;1322939 said:


> Then what are they solving?
> 
> Ask your off road experts to explain articulation to you and ask these questions at the same time.
> How much travel does the suspension have before contacting the timbren when the plow is not installed?
> ...


no need to ask anyone those questions as I will be able to answer all of those questions myself today when i pick the 97 tj up from Burnsville Off Road in Burnsville mn, stay tuned


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

my new timbrens,yes Basher vive la difference,ans so far they were no charge$$,will put the plow on today but so far without the plow on i cant tell the difference


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

Bill Shy;1323549 said:


> my new timbrens,yes Basher vive la difference,ans so far they were no charge$$,will put the plow on today but so far without the plow on i cant tell the difference


i put the plow on with my new timbrens and no rub now going down the road but when i hit the brakes i get that horrible sound of driveshaft rubbing the exhaust,may order airshocks from Basher,will wait to hear what the offroad guy says


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Hear is the real question How is the exhaust rubbing on the driveshaft? it should be know were near it.

do you have counter weight in the back of the jeep?

with air shocks you measure the bumper to ground height, then put on the plow and add air until the bumper to ground height is back up to speck.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

theplowmeister;1323966 said:


> Hear is the real question How is the exhaust rubbing on the driveshaft? it should be know were near it.


the collector and the front u joint are very close. Have had issues with my boy's TJ when we replaced the motor, had to adjust things and still had issues with it under hard right corners.


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

theplowmeister;1323966 said:


> Hear is the real question How is the exhaust rubbing on the driveshaft? it should be know were near it.
> 
> do you have counter weight in the back of the jeep?
> 
> with air shocks you measure the bumper to ground height, then put on the plow and add air until the bumper to ground height is back up to speck.


i agree, the real question is why is it so close but i am learning after i bought it that it seems to be common...i have no ballast, today i will goto home depot and buy 4.. 50lb bags of sand and try that, i have a good handle on the jeep height should be 9.5 to 10.5 from center of the lower plow mount hole to the ground...i am not there yet but i bought some tires and rims that will briing me there...i dont see how the height will have any effect on the exhaust to driveshaft clearance,,,will order some ma673 air shocks today from amazon


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

basher;1323987 said:


> the collector and the front u joint are very close. Have had issues with my boy's TJ when we replaced the motor, had to adjust things and still had issues with it under hard right corners.


can the collector be ground down a little or can i put on an aftermarket exhaust to get more clearance?


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

air shocks now on order!

Delivery estimate: Oct. 21, 2011 - Oct. 26, 2011
1 "Monroe MA763 Max-Air Air Shock Absorber"
Automotive; $62.80
In Stock
Sold by: Amazon.com LLC


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Bill Shy;1324022 said:


> can the collector be ground down a little or can i put on an aftermarket exhaust to get more clearance?


I have no idea.


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

i put 200lbs just inside the rear door so its behind the rear axle and it is better, rubbing is not gone but better


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

timbrens and driveshaft


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

exhaust too close


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

Bill Shy;1324477 said:


> i put 200lbs just inside the rear door so its behind the rear axle and it is better, rubbing is not gone but better


ok i took my TJ to a trailer hitch shop i know and had them heat and hammer the exhaust a little , that didnt help much so i went back WITH the plow on and this time a guy at the shop took a really big pry bar and pryed on the exhaust against the drivveshaft and bent it enough so no more rubbing!


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Aaa did anybody check the exhaust hanger by the rear cat above the transfer case skid? if that is bent it can allow the exhaust to rub on the driveshaft.

those look like new springs, BDS shocks and bottom out spacers. did you have a lift kit put in?
if yes how big
and I bet you went with a transfer case lowering spacers instead of slip yoke eliminator kit.
If you answered yes to all that, then its the transfer case lowering kit that is causing the rubbing, the exhaust hanger need to be modified so it doesn't push the pipe over into the drive shaft


PS it looks like your left front axle seal is leaking.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

If you have a lift kit your air shocks are not going to fit.


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

theplowmeister;1326652 said:


> Aaa did anybody check the exhaust hanger by the rear cat above the transfer case skid? if that is bent it can allow the exhaust to rub on the driveshaft.
> 
> those look like new springs, BDS shocks and bottom out spacers. did you have a lift kit put in?
> if yes how big
> ...


Burnsville Off Road had my jeep for sale last august and it was lifted 4 inches, i said i would buy it but Burnsville off Road would have to put it back to stock so i could plow with it ..They said they could do that and had the parts left over from a recent lift job.in the end he said he put in a heavier spring to help with the plow, thats all i know at this point.so my shocks should fit??, they shipped today...???

they welded the axle leaks but the leak on the end is from bad silicone they say and it is to be repaired next week,,Burnsville off Road said it is about $1000 for a new axle


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

how much does your lead bumper weigh?what are arb


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

bumper weighs about #450 it has 6 bolt in lead ingots that weigh ~#75 each plugs into a recever hitch WITH two support chains to the frame.
If its stock height the shocks should fit.


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

theplowmeister;1327063 said:


> bumper weighs about #450 it has 6 bolt in lead ingots that weigh ~#75 each plugs into a recever hitch WITH two support chains to the frame.
> If its stock height the shocks should fit.


do you know how to tell if its stock height on a tj..it will be much easier to return the shocks if they are unopened...i would forgo the airshocks rather than try to get this jeep suspension changed..i like the airshocks if they fit..where do i measure? the rubbing driveshaft and exhaust seems to be resolved/repaired but i would like a little lift


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

I can measure my stock TJ but it varies from jeep to jeep


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

where did you find a 12volt belt driven air compressor?


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

the 4X4 shop should know I have a Endless Air


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

endless air looks like a lot of work, my air shocks arrived today and my tj went to the off road place today to get the axle to quit leaking, should be ready thursday and may be able to put the shocks in thurs,didnt see where to drill for the air line?


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## Bill Shy (Aug 2, 2011)

ok picked up my tj from Burnsville off road,they put a new used front differential to address the leak..havent mounted my new shocks max air yet,soon.my question is how do you do a hundred driveways, when it snows my customers are on me after two days!


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Bill Shy;1333325 said:


> ok picked up my tj from Burnsville off road,they put a new used front differential to address the leak..havent mounted my new shocks max air yet,soon.my question is how do you do a hundred driveways, when it snows my customers are on me after two days!


2 DAYS Id be looking for a new plower.

I have 2 Jeeps now I was doing 75 alone, Prity maxed out at that. 
ALL my customers can get out at 7:00 AM and in at 5:00 PM. cleanup happens after the storm is over. depending on the storm 4 to 10 hours after the end I am done.


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