# Wheel Loader Plows??



## 4x4Farmer

Hi Everybody. Im new to this site, but have been moving snow pretty much sence I could walk. What Im wondering about is if anybody has a blade on the front of a wheel loader instead of a bucket. We've been pondering on the idea of getting one for one of the loaders. I found something I like, but when I saw the price on it, I changed my mind on that one. I guess right now im thinking about something like a 12' straight blade. I know nothing about them, but I think they would be nice for large parking lots. If anybody has any info for me, I would appreciate it. Heres a link to that expensive one I was looking at
Thanks
Nick

http://www.degelman.com/Products/icebreaker/ib_photo.html#top


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## Mark Oomkes

Yep, we have one with a Daniels and 3 with ProTech snow pushers. Many are using the Daniels Wing plow because they can be folded for transport and be road legal. Do a search on either topic and you will find a bunch of worthwhile reading.


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## itsgottobegreen

www.snopusher.com Protec makes the best snow pushers. I love mine.


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## 4x4Farmer

I'v looked at the pushers also, and I think that one of those would be nice also, but I guess im wondering more about just stright plows.


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## Plow Meister

I don't know of anyone around here using just a push blade on a loader. It's just not an economical way to utilize such a large machine. With a straight blade a loader could do no more than a 1 ton or a 2 ton truck. With a box the same loader could literally push TONS of snow with little to no trail off. Plus, a straight blade large enough to mount on a reasonable size loader will probably cost MORE to purchase than a 12' pusher box yet the pusher box can do so much more. It can obviously push snow but can also stack snow very high. It takes longer to stack snow as high with a straight blade.


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## Mark Oomkes

Not sure what you are saying, PLow Meister. Are you referring to a straight plow blade not being effective on a loader or a pusher box?

Either way, they both have their place in snow removal. Pusher boxes can move huge amounts of material with little runoff\trails. A straight plow blade is awesome for lots where the snow can be windrowed just like a truck. And if you get that much snow that you can't windrow, then all you have to do is bulldoze. At 16-20', it really doesn't matter about the trails, because they are easily taken care of.


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## Plow Meister

What I'm saying is it is definitely possible to install a straight blade on a loader, it's simply impractical. You can accomplish WAY more with a box blade than a straight blade when installed on a typical loader.


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## 4x4Farmer

Thats what I am talking about, We have a few very large parking lots that It would be nice to be able to windrow with the loader. What I really want is a blade with wings on it so I can push without a trail also. But im sure I'll just be bolting up the 3 piece bucket here pretty soon and using that agian.


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## Mark Oomkes

Plow Meister said:


> What I'm saying is it is definitely possible to install a straight blade on a loader, it's simply impractical. You can accomplish WAY more with a box blade than a straight blade when installed on a typical loader.


No, not necessarily. It isn't impractical or Daniel's wouldn't still be making them as well as other manufacturers making similar products. In some applications, they are more productive than a pusher box\containment plow, it all depends on what you need to plow. I have one Daniel's so I am speaking from experience. I also have 4 ProTech's and several subs with ProTechs, so I know from experience what each can do, not from what I see around town.

I forgot to mention it in my other post, but straight blade can stack almost as good as a pusher box. It is correct that a straight blade is more expensive to purchase, but it is also more versatile.

4X4Farmer, if you do not have to carry snow because you are able to windrow it to the side for the most part, a straight blade will work fine. A 16-20' will replace 3 trucks and the operators. There are some manufacturers that are making straight blades with hydraulic wings so you have the best of both worlds.


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## 4x4Farmer

That Daniels wing plow I think looks like a pretty slick deal. They even had a little video on there web site. Im thinking im gonna have to give them a call on monday. Thanks for all your help on this.

Nick


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## JrReb5

www.arcticsnowandice.com. Sectional Plow. I drive one of there wheel loaders with this on it and it is absolutely amazing for pushing. great features to it. check them out. Tell them that Sean Hughes from the Lemont Loader sent you.


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## gordyo

I use a 10' Henke Power Angle plow on a John Deere 344H Loader. I also have a 4 yard snow bucket the 2 yard bucket that the machine comes with and a protec snow pusher. The machine has a JRB quick coupler. If I did not have this plow the machine would sit during the storm doing nothing until it was time to do snow removal in the student parking lots which is usually the following afternoon after a storm. So with the plow the machine goes into service and works on roads. In large storms it can run down the edges of the road and push back windrows that the trucks can't touch. You can see a pic here.

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=6512&highlight=gordyo


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## gordyo

Plow Meister said:


> With a straight blade a loader could do no more than a 1 ton or a 2 ton truck.


I beg to differ, while your backing up in your truck for your next pass, I am turning in a tight circle and pushing snow back the other way.

But I do suppose that you did make the statement that you did not know of anyone using "just a blade" and since I use a blade, 4 yard bucket, 2 yard bucket and a snow pusher, I guess you are right.


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## Plow Meister

gordyo said:


> I beg to differ, while your backing up in your truck for your next pass, I am turning in a tight circle and pushing snow back the other way.
> 
> But I do suppose that you did make the statement that you did not know of anyone using "just a blade" and since I use a blade, 4 yard bucket, 2 yard bucket and a snow pusher, I guess you are right.


Who'se to say I can't turn my truck around just like your loader with a blade? There's not always a need to back up and keep plowing in the same direction.


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## crazymike

I beg to differ. While you fools are still agruing, I can come in there with a 200hp farm tractor and hydra fold blade/pusher. Pay a farm boy $10 an hour to drive the thing knowing he won't wreck it. All this while not making rediculous payments on the thing and being covered by my ag insurance. Fold the blade in and drive to the next account. And if I want to buy 2, the govn't will subsdidize it.

If we just used the whatever did the fastest, best job all the time. We wouldn't use trucks, or loaders, etc... We would probably just charge them to install pavement heaters and melt the snow away. 

You have to use what is best and most economical for you. Sometimes a loader will make a job a breeze, but not everybody has access to a loader. And some sites would make your loader driver cringe. 

If you can make more money with a shovel and a bucket of rock salt, do it. That's why we do this last time I checked, to make money.


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## crazymike

As for loader blades.

I sell blades from Horst Welding for all the tractors I carry.

We carry 3 types.

Straight Push. These are you typical push boxes. 10' is around $4700, 16' - $8000

Straight Blades. These are similar to your Western, etc... and available with hyraulic or manual end plates to convert to pusher.

Hydrafold/Push box - These are straight blades with hydraulic end pieces to convert to a push box. But the entire blade is also hydraulic and narrows to the legal road width.

a 9' that expands to 14' is $16,000
a 12' that expands to 20' is $17,000 (all these are CDN pricing)


I'm not trying to sell you these as I'm in a different country, just give you an idea on price. They are expensive. However, if you live in a good snow area, your blade will easily cover its expense in 2 years. And then the bucket on the loader should cover your loader cost doing removal, etc...


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## Plow Meister

crazymike said:


> I beg to differ. While you fools are still agruing, I can come in there with a 200hp farm tractor and hydra fold blade/pusher. Pay a farm boy $10 an hour to drive the thing knowing he won't wreck it. All this while not making rediculous payments on the thing and being covered by my ag insurance. Fold the blade in and drive to the next account. And if I want to buy 2, the govn't will subsdidize it.
> 
> If we just used the whatever did the fastest, best job all the time. We wouldn't use trucks, or loaders, etc... We would probably just charge them to install pavement heaters and melt the snow away.
> 
> You have to use what is best and most economical for you. Sometimes a loader will make a job a breeze, but not everybody has access to a loader. And some sites would make your loader driver cringe.
> 
> If you can make more money with a shovel and a bucket of rock salt, do it. That's why we do this last time I checked, to make money.


Mike, we're not arguing. We're discussing. I feel we are all open-minded here. I never said it was rediculously stupid to put a straight blade on a loader. It just wasn't a practical idea. But hey, if you already own a tractor and want to spend $16K on a blade / pusher than go for it. Most people here don't even spend that kind of $$ on their entire set-up. I'm sure it will do a fantastic job.

And hey, do me a favor and wath the name calling. It's really not appropriate here.


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## Mark Oomkes

Plow Meister said:


> I never said it was rediculously stupid to put a straight blade on a loader. It just wasn't a practical idea.


But you did state it was impractical while not knowing anybody that uses one. How can you make that statement without any knowledge of the subject? Like Jeff and I stated, they are extremely practical and will do a fantastic job of pushing snow, with a straight blade or pusher. This is coming from first-hand experience.

A loader can out turn a truck very easily, making it possible to turn around easier and push both ways. My JCB 212 can turn tighter than a Jeep with the 4 wheel steer but have a 14' blade on the front. Trying pushing 14' of snow with a 1 ton.

Mike, I agree with you about the tractors, there just aren't as many around me as in other areas. The only time I would say that they are better than a farm tractor is stacking ability.


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## murray83

have to admit i plow with a backhoe and a 12' craig blade and love it,it'll out do any truck and i love the added power,its no loader but it does the job.

also horst welding make an amazing plow,i was looking at one for a joke at the john deere dealer here and liked what i saw,very nice well built plow.


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## crazymike

murray83 said:


> have to admit i plow with a backhoe and a 12' craig blade and love it,it'll out do any truck and i love the added power,its no loader but it does the job.
> 
> also horst welding make an amazing plow,i was looking at one for a joke at the john deere dealer here and liked what i saw,very nice well built plow.


Yes, they are fantastic. And very heavily built.

When it comes to tractors and loaders, the heavier the better. The scrape better, push harder and last longer.

I wish they would make a blade to fit my truck


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## crazymike

I don't see why it's NOT practical to put a straight blade on a loader.

Most loaders now have a decent high gear. So if you can windrow 20' of snow instead of 8.5', why not? A push box is great in some lots, but it's not in every lot.

To me, it's impractical to pay insurance, payments, etc... on a loader to sit idle during a storm and only use it for cleanup/removal.

$17,000 on a good setup that will last forever. If you have a horrible accountant and dismal snow falls, you can make atleast $5000 a year just pushing the snow. So in 4 years you covered the cost of the blade setup. You have removal jobs, summer jobs, etc... to cover the cost of the loader.

Sure, if your idea of commercial plowing is doing a few strip malls and driveways, a loader is not practical. But a loader with a 20' blade will make $150-$200 an hour easily subcontract. Around here you should have no problem making $15,000 gaurenteed a year with such a setup.

Most guys in this area make enough to afford a loader + blade and only use it in the winter.


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## Plow Meister

Mark Oomkes said:


> But you did state it was impractical while not knowing anybody that uses one. How can you make that statement without any knowledge of the subject? Like Jeff and I stated, they are extremely practical and will do a fantastic job of pushing snow, with a straight blade or pusher. This is coming from first-hand experience.
> 
> A loader can out turn a truck very easily, making it possible to turn around easier and push both ways. My JCB 212 can turn tighter than a Jeep with the 4 wheel steer but have a 14' blade on the front. Trying pushing 14' of snow with a 1 ton.
> 
> Mike, I agree with you about the tractors, there just aren't as many around me as in other areas. The only time I would say that they are better than a farm tractor is stacking ability.


It's only impractical because you can take the exact same tractor and put a box blade on it. It will push the same snow (if not more), you'll get less trail-off, and it stacks snow WAY better.

My BIL has a small loader with a straight blade on it. He only uses a straight blade since he only plows hiw own driveway and stacking isn't very important. All he really has to do is windrow each side and he's done.

Mark, it's not like I'm pulling my OPINIONS out of my ass. I have been around a while and I have seen and done many things in the industry. I don't claim to be the smartest person here. That's all I'm saying. I have nothing further to add here.


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## crazymike

Plow Meister said:


> It's only impractical because you can take the exact same tractor and put a box blade on it. It will push the same snow (if not more), you'll get less trail-off, and it stacks snow WAY better.
> 
> My BIL has a small loader with a straight blade on it. He only uses a straight blade since he only plows hiw own driveway and stacking isn't very important. All he really has to do is windrow each side and he's done.
> 
> Mark, it's not like I'm pulling my OPINIONS out of my ass. I have been around a while and I have seen and done many things in the industry. I don't claim to be the smartest person here. That's all I'm saying. I have nothing further to add here.


If you have been around a while, you would know that a push box is not practical on many locations.

This is especially the case for long narrow lots that have to be windrowed and are too long to be straight pushed.


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## 4x4Farmer

Jeez, I go out and combine beans for a few days and I come back, and now I'v got the whole world worked up about this. lol You all have good points.


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## crazymike

4x4Farmer said:


> Jeez, I go out and combine beans for a few days and I come back, and now I'v got the whole world worked up about this. lol You all have good points.


How many of your tractors do you have out plowing snow, and what equipment?


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## Mark Oomkes

PlowMeister, how about we put it this way. My BIL uses a Chevy for his driveway, but because of the IFS, it is impractical to turn around and maneuver. Also, all of the contractors in my area are using Dodges and Fords for driveways and I have never used a Chevy myself.

Same thing you are saying, you are giving an opinion on something you do not have first hand knowledge of, only anecdotal evidence. Others of us have given first hand experience with both types of plows and most have stated that they both have their place in plowing snow, not that one is impractical and the other is the only thing in the world. As I stated, there wouldn't be that many manufacturers of straight plows for loaders\tractors if there weren't people purchasing them.


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## 4x4Farmer

I dont use any of the farm tractors for snow, I just have a MXM 190 Case tractor with a blower on the back of it for the farm. We use all the construction equipment for the snow removal. We use 3 chevy p/u with boss v plows, 2 924 cat loaders, 2 8875 deer skids, and 310 deer backhoe.


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## crazymike

4x4Farmer said:


> I dont use any of the farm tractors for snow, I just have a MXM 190 Case tractor with a blower on the back of it for the farm. We use all the construction equipment for the snow removal. We use 3 chevy p/u with boss v plows, 2 924 cat loaders, 2 8875 deer skids, and 310 deer backhoe.


Just out of curiosity, the 310 Deere isn't that big. Why that over a farm tractor?

I sell heavy equipment and deal with a lot of farmers aswell. So I'm always curious. I have a lot of customers who are looking into putting their ag equipment out for snow removal because of the current state of farming. But I also have a lot that won't do it for X reason.


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## Plow Meister

Well, short of you seeing my first hand experience with your own eyes you will undoubtedly never believe me.

It's one thing putting a push blade on a TRACTOR. It's entirely another thing to put a push blade on a WHEEL LOADER. Again, it's totally possible and each type of blade has its pro's and con's. If this guy wants to put a straight blade on a wheel loader than, by all means, go for it. I'm sure it will do a fine job of pushing snow. I have no doubt of that. I'm only telling you my opinion from my FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. I own a Cat 918 with a 12' Pro Tech box blade. I know what I can do with it. I also own a few trucks with straight blades. I know what they can do. I'll tell you right now I have NEVER operated a wheel loader with a straight blade. I have watched my BIL's loader - blade combo operate and it works well for his application. One problem I see is that the nlade trips too easily in relation to the overwhelming power that loader has. He has gone so far as to attach chains to the blade to keep it from tripping. I don't even know what mfr it is. It's pretty old but it's about 12' wide and looks pretty stout. Perhaps it came off of a municipal truck or something. I really don't know.

Mark, your comparison about the Chevy IFS isn't even close to the same thing. IFS, Straight axle, TTB, whatever. It's still a truck. We're not compairing the same thing. Pick-up trucks are pretty much all built for the same purposes. Different sizes can handle different tasks. The difference between a straight blade and a box blade would be like compairing a flatbed truck and a box truck. Sure, both trucks can haul loads. The diference is the flatbed truck could be better suited to haul some materials while a box truck is suited to haul other types of materials. With respect to the proposed straight blade, it windrows well and CAN stack snow but it really isn't built for that task. Just like a box blade isn't really designed to windrow snow, it can still push snow and do a far better job of stacking / piling snow than a straight blade.

Now take into consideration the type of machine you will be mounting the blade / box to. If it's just a smaller tractor that really isn't capable of lifting the box / blade high enough to make large, tall piles, a straight blade may be of better use. However, if you are utilizing a wheel loader as the original poster stated, a box blade will, in most instances, be the better choice. After all, the operative word in the description is LOADER. These machines are designed to lift piles of dirt, rock, snow, or whatever else into a truck or create larger piles of said material. Since the primary objective of the wheel loader is to load / pile material, TYPICALLY the best type of blade for such a machine would be a box blade. Again, there will definitely be a use for a straight blade. I'm not denying that.

I gotta say, I feel you are just arguing simply for the opportunity to argue. I'm not saying you don't have substance. i'm just saying you are arguing just to argue.


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## Big Dog D

Here if it helps...............


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## Plow Meister

LOL, that's priceless


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## Mark Oomkes

Now we're getting somewhere. In your first post on this, you stated that all the guys around you used pusher boxes and anything else is impractical. Correct? No where prior to this last post have you stated that you have used a loader before.

My analogy is correct, because Chevy's have IFS which doesn't turn nearly as tight as a straight axle truck. I was using this analogy based on you never having used a loader with either a straight blade or a pusher. You would have been stating that even though I've never used a Chevy, they won't work because everybody else uses Dodges\Fords even though there is a multitude of contractors using Chevy's to plow with around the country.

Your comparison of a truck mounted straight blade to a loader mounted blade is a bad analogy IMO. A loader can outpush a truck because of its weight and its torque. I can perform as much work as at least 2 trucks with my small loader and 14' blade as 2 trucks with 9+' V-blades, we did it in one area that we plow. If you add that up, you get 18' of plows vs. 14', but it can outmaneuver and outpush a truck. The other thing is the angle of the plow in relation to the truck, Daniel's are about 35* on a loader and truck mounted are 32* at best. Because of this, a Daniel's is able to utilize more of the blade to windrow until a large windrow is built up, similar to a Blizzard with the leading edge angled forward. I can use more of the blade to plow than a truck can. I have over 1000 hours in my loader with the Daniel's mainly setting up for a loader with a ProTech because of the customers' requirements of snow 'stacking'. I have also plowed small to medium size lots with it when we had an early snowfall, over weekends with a lot of time, lake effect in 1 area and not another and I can guarantee you it is very practical to plow with a straight blade on a loader. I can plow a lot in 10 minutes that is impossible to get done in under 20 with a truck, and I can even push my piles over the curb higher and further than a truck because the blade will come 11'+ off the ground.

I added another set of springs to my Daniel's to reduce tripping and also so I can apply even more down pressure when plowing, no problems. Most of the other contractors in my area have done the same.

I am not arguing just to argue. I am debating this issue because your statement that a straight blade mounted to a loader is impractical is wrong, very wrong. Each blade has it's place, you need to look at what your requirements are and judge for yourself what would work best for you. This is what I stated from the beginning, but you kept trying to defend your position without first hand experience with both types of plows, you didn't even mention you had any expreience with any loaders at first. Now you are finally admitting that they do both have their place and you have used a pusher box. I can pretty much guarantee that this debate would not have occurred if you would have not made the statement that straight blade loader mounted plows are impractical.

Here's a pic of our's that we used in some marketing literature.


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## crazymike

You must have misread what I said. Although we sell straight blades for tractors, we sell them for wheel loaders aswell. In fact, they quite common for wheel loaders. Because as it's been said 100x. Straight stacking is not always an option.


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