# Premium Diesel or #2?



## EZSnow (Aug 13, 2003)

The station I buy my fuel from is a good, high-volume station with the best price around. I have always filled at the same pump, which is marked "Premium Diesel" but recently, my wife fueled the truck and called me worried that she had used the wrong fuel...  Turns out she used the other side of the same island, but it's marked "#2 with OTR" Truck seemed to run fine, and I got my typical 15.5mpg, so I guess I'm not worried for now. I am concerned about which to run come winter, though.
I also noticed that both fuel types are also available at the high-flow (big rig) pumps as well. I have about 6,000 miles of diesel experience, so any insight will be much appreciated.
-Derek


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

If she got it out of the same pump, it should be the same no matter which side you filled up on. I use diesel in a tractor and all of the times that I've filled up my 5 gallon can, I've always seen the #2 designation. It may be that the "premium" sticker is just advertising for the brand that they only stuck on one side of the pump. 

I'm no expert, buy my understanding is that generally there is only #1 or #2, with #2 blen being for low temperature (ie: winter) use.


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

Diesel and #2 are virtually the same, the diesel has a few more additives to keep the engine a bit cleaner and the highway taxes are in the price. 

Used to be everyone ran #2 and taxes were paid on an honor system according to the miles driven, but I think too many were cheating and probably the bookkeeping got too expensive on the governments end, so now all on road vehicles must run clear diesel fuel. #2 has a dye added so it can be detected by inspectors, then a hefty fine (up to $10,000) can be applied if a violation is discovered.

I've run my diesel powered machines on #2 since I've owned them with no problems, except in extreme cold it can gel up and clog the fuel filters if not treated.

I'm not sure if the OTR you mention might mean "Over The Road" where the highway taxes would have been added making it suitable for highway use. There would be a sign by the pump warning of the misuse of the fuel and associated fines.


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## easthavenplower (Aug 21, 2003)

if it gets that cold and the diesil gels up add a little karosine it will prevent the gelling but please somebody correct me if im wrong before somebody blows up their engine


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## EZSnow (Aug 13, 2003)

Pelican, it's a fairly modern station with pay-at-the-pump, and they run as many as 4 types of gas through one hose, so a a different type of diesel on either side would not surprise me. They are both 'taxed' fuels- dyed green (I believe red is non-tax) and sold for the same price. ($1.46 by the way)

I asked the girl at the desk what the difference was, and as clueless as she seemed to be, she said that there is no difference 'this time of year'. I wonder which is going to get blended? The "#2 OTR" sign was also a replaceable one in a plastic sheath like a dessert menu. Maybe they put a different sign in it when it's blended. Also, I can't imagine that in MN, where old lady winter will regularly give us sub-zeros for a week at a time (snow or not) they would sell anything BUT winter blend.

I thought #1 was kerosene or heating oil and it gets mixed with #2 to make winter blend.

Thanks


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

I run my backhoe on #2 fuel/heating oil and put the additive in it been running fine.Just like was said above they are the same except for the blending for winter fuel.Kerosean can be added to thin the mix out I think and 80/20 .


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

There is a difference between "Premium" diesel and the regular #2 OTR.It has more cetane,more additives,and usually comes at a premium price.


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## micah79 (Aug 31, 2003)

I use the #2 in my Dodge, and I add Howes Diesel Treat. I think I'm better off doing iot this way, and I save some $$$


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## EZSnow (Aug 13, 2003)

there's no price difference between these fuels


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## micah79 (Aug 31, 2003)

There sure is! At least where I get mine.


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## EZSnow (Aug 13, 2003)

I don't doubt there might be, but at this station, nobody knows the difference, and the price is the same on both pumps... $1.46 Truck runs fine on either... I guess I'll try to find out who the supplier is and ask them.


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## micah79 (Aug 31, 2003)

Cool deal. A lot of stations sell a winterized formula too. I like to add my own additive though because it provides antigel, boosts the cetane level and provides sulfer substitutes. It also gets rid of most of the smoke. I can still make her smoke if I get on it, but it helps a lot. Howes diesel treat is good stuff. Diesel fuel nowdays is low in sulfer for environmental reasons


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

I misunderstood, some places around here have two pumps, one for highway vehicles and one for off road machines. The latter has no highway tax and is quite a bit cheaper. I'd be surprised if both pumps aren't drawing from the same tank in your case.

Diesel is 189.9 here!:realmad:


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

I may be wrong on this, but I think OTR means Off The Road, meaning its more like heating oil and only to be used in construction machines that are used on job sites. You cant or arent supposed to fill up regular diesel trucks with it and drive on public roads or highways. I dont know where I got this, but for some reason I just remember someone telling me this. I know there are some diesel fuels that have a red look to them, and I think thats the one Im referring to. Its like your being sold heating oil. When you see a real cheap diesel fuel price, its most likely not the good stuff. By the way, diesel fuel at my dads shop is 1.699 a gallon as of right now. We keep the price up a bit because we have a great location right off the highway and we are 1 of only 2 places in the town that actually sell diesel. Mike


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## micah79 (Aug 31, 2003)

I think its the same stuff, the only difference is that the off road has the red dye, and you dont pay the taxes on the off road. I'm pretty sure its the same fuel though. It just dyed for dot inspections.


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## Rooster (Dec 13, 1999)

Typically at a truck stop when I drove over the road as an owner operator.

Off road fuel is dyed. Preimum and #1 Diesel were for winter use.

#2 Diesel was for warmer weather.

Although that was many years ago.

Rick


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## EZSnow (Aug 13, 2003)

*RESOLUTION!*

As I was fueling today, I went into the store to see what today's village idiot behind the counter knew about diesel fuel. Turns out the GM of the station was there...
First, both sides of the island pump the same fuel, the premium a marketing designation.

#2 is straight summer diesel
#1 is what they mix to winterize summer diesel for anti-gelling

OTR is a lubricity additive that compensates for the reduction in lubricity caused by the processes that remove sulfur. As a side-effect, it provides a "winter factor" of 20%. This makes it the anti-gelling equivalent of a 20% #1 mix. As it gets colder, this is then mixed with #1 to further enhance the anti-gel properties of the fuel. This station is only a few miles from the refinery and goes through 2-3 transports of diesel each day, so they are constantly adjusting their mix with weather forecasts and conditions. He claims to not have had a gel in the five years this station has been operating.

SO, I guess I'm getting 'Premium' #2 with OTR!!

It seems that the constantly changing formula is a really good reason to stick with a high-volume station.

I got edumacated in diesel today and thought I'd pass it on!

-Derek


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## micah79 (Aug 31, 2003)

Thanks, Derek, its always a big mystery, because like you said, no one ever knows anything at the counter of a gas station. I think I'll still put the addative in mine, cause it sure helps with the smoke, and I think its helping my milage by about 3 miles/gallon. Now I'll have to see what the locals are putting in the tanks around here. (I'm kinda scared to find out) lol


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

From http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/diesel_fuel.htm#FAQ

> 4. Related to question 3, I do recall seeing something like "Highway 
> Diesel #2" posted on the pumps at the station. What exactly does this 
> mean with respect to sulfur and cetane rating?

It means that the sulfur level is approved for highway use and catalytic converters. Diesel #2 is heavier than #1. It also (usually) has lower Cetane and more heat energy per gallon than #1. #2 will tend to form wax crystals and gel at temperatures below 10 degrees F. Most winter fuels are a blend of #1 and #2, but when it gets really cold I add fuel conditioner to avoid clogging the fuel filter with wax crystals.


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## micah79 (Aug 31, 2003)

Diesel engines like sulfer though. Its just the epa that made them take it out of the #2. I'll admit that it is bad for the environment, but the sulfer provides lubrication, and is good for the engine.


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## EZSnow (Aug 13, 2003)

from what I understand, sulfur does not provide ANY lubrication. However, low-sulfur fuels are associated with low lubricity because the refining process that removes the sulfur (to make the tree-huggers happy) also reduces the lubricity of the resulting fuel. So, while it is an accurate statement that low-sulfur diesel fuels provide less lubrication, it is not the sulfur that provides/ reduces it.


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## micah79 (Aug 31, 2003)

I guess I was wrong on a technicality, but its still the same idea. Diesel out of the pump doesn't have the same lubricity as it used to. (damn tree huggers lol)


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## Pickering snow removal (Jan 8, 2003)

*premium*

Has i read these posts i need to comment on a couple of things for all of us here mostly northern and north east i hope like heck people are using #1 premium during the winter, i cant count the number of service calls i have went on up here for gel ups trust me the last then you want in the middle of a storm is a gel up. Most place's switch to prem in the winter months like so many have said on here but i never take chances on it my two psd's get power service additive all year long two reasons like so many have mentioned about the lub quailtys of todays fuels power service gives the extra lubrcation needed for the inject, inject pump. the other is gel ups in the winter cant risk it wont tolerate it so hence i stock power service in my shop and on my service truck just my two pennys


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

That's what I used all last wintyer that power service works great .Used it with the #2 in my machine never had a problem just added more to be sure.


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## Big Nate's Plowing (Nov 26, 2000)

when I had my 7.3 I always used Sunoco 49 cetane premium diesel, it all came out of the same tank as the big rigs in the summer but it was a different tank in winter summer was 10¢ cheaper though


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## ddm (Sep 5, 2001)

Hey everyone, another great thread full of new information! 
A little off the subject matter, but I'll ask anyway. 
What is actually the difference in the "fuel" itself between on-road and off-road (dyed) diesel?? For example is #2 diesel pretty much the same fuel be it on or off road use?

I really have no idea, I always thought on-road was supposed to be a better fuel with less of the "bad" emissions the epa is so worried about. Maybe somebody can help with that. 

With some of the talk here about using additives, should they be used just the same in a piece of equipment that burns only off-road diesel? I always add additive for winter gel-ups in the cold season, but should I be doing more?


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## micah79 (Aug 31, 2003)

I would use a high quality additive all year long. It makes the engine run cleaner, and will help on longevity of your engine. I know diesel engines will run forever pretty much no matter what you put in them, but an additive will help prolong the life of many engine components that are costly to repair. A lot of guys on here don't see much use in an additive during the summer, but I think it is worth the money, to keep the engine in better shape. The stuff is pretty cheap really.


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## johngus (Aug 14, 2001)

heres some fuel for thought.I used to work for a guy who had a Ford diesel van with a 6.9 in it.He put a 275 gallon tank next to his garage and would buy heating oil for like 90 cents a gallon and just riggged up a pump on the tank to fill up the van.He never had any problems with the way it ran and it was 1/2 the price.


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

> He never had any problems


He hasn't had his tank dipped yet. BIG problem! $10,000 fine for tax evasion.


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## johngus (Aug 14, 2001)

i wasn't saying it was right,just saying on a personal use pickup the chances of getting caught I would think are slim.The DOT here only stops large commercial trucks or trucks pulling trailers.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

> _Originally posted by ddm _
> *Hey everyone, another great thread full of new information!
> A little off the subject matter, but I'll ask anyway.
> What is actually the difference in the "fuel" itself between on-road and off-road (dyed) diesel?? For example is #2 diesel pretty much the same fuel be it on or off road use?
> ...


The two fuels are exactly the same,just the off road diesel has a detectable dye added to it so it's easily recognized.It is half the price as you aren't paying all the taxes on it.


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## Santo (Sep 3, 2003)

I'v always used heating oil from when my truck was new.


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