# 64 Unit HOA Seasonal Rate



## DaveWB (Jun 24, 2011)

I have never bid something this large so I'm hoping to get a little help/time estimate for this property.

I have 2 1-ton dump trucks with 8' straight blades and a skid loader(I will need to get a snow bucket or snow pusher for it(suggestions?) if I receive the contract)

Contract is for a seasonal rate up to 70 inches of snowfall with a 2" trigger, anything less will just be salted. Anything after that will be an hourly rate.

The roads are approximately 25 feet wide and are 3127 in total length. 6 total passes would be about 3.55 total miles traveled, the curbs are the angled type if that affects anything.

There are 64 driveways, about 54,000 total square feet for the driveways.

64 sidewalks are 4 feet wide and 25 feet long.(Single stage snow blower or shovel crew)

3 year contract (with full maintenance lawn care/landscaping)

Average Snowfall for our area


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

How many guys do you have working for you


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## DaveWB (Jun 24, 2011)

grandview;2014320 said:


> How many guys do you have working for you


I've mostly subcontracted before so I would have to hire on people, I would expect to have to hire about 4-5 people. I expect to pay about $20/hr in hopes of attaining reliable people.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

DaveWB;2014329 said:


> I've mostly subcontracted before so I would have to hire on people, I would expect to have to hire about 4-5 people. I expect to pay about $20/hr in hopes of attaining reliable people.


There are no reliable people to attain anymore...even at $20/hr.

Also, you need 2 skids in there to speed things along so on a 5-6 inch snow you're not in there for 4-6 hrs. The sidewalks as well as hand work in front of the garage doors will be a killer on time as well, and if you get a big snow you better have more than 2 guys and 2 blowers on the walks and doors. Usually those types of places drift pretty good.

Good thing is, it looks like there's lot of places to put snow, so that will save some time.


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## DaveWB (Jun 24, 2011)

WIPensFan;2014431 said:


> There are no reliable people to attain anymore...even at $20/hr.
> 
> Also, you need 2 skids in there to speed things along so on a 5-6 inch snow you're not in there for 4-6 hrs. The sidewalks as well as hand work in front of the garage doors will be a killer on time as well, and if you get a big snow you better have more than 2 guys and 2 blowers on the walks and doors. Usually those types of places drift pretty good.
> 
> Good thing is, it looks like there's lot of places to put snow, so that will save some time.


I think I would hire as many as I could and have less headache if there are no-shows, "my car broke down", etc...
Would you say about 18 man hours is pretty accurate?
They told me that they only had one skid in the past when I asked. I got a buddy with a case w20c wheel loader that could backdrag these drives in one pass but I don't know how reliable it is. The sidewalks could be done with a tractor Blower but they have that 90 degree angle so they'll have to be done with a walk behind Blower or shovels.


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## Spence92 (Dec 6, 2014)

Try looking at just one driveway and sidewalk. How much would you charge to do just ONE dive way and walk. Let's say $30 (I'm just putting that number out there as an example) then multiply that one driveway by how many drives there are. 

So $30×64 drives = (roughly $2,000) then find how long it takes to drive around the roads for 1 pass. And multiply that by 6 for 6 passes. 

Again don't quote me on the numbers or anything. I was just putting them out there to get the ball rolling. Goodluck! hope I could help.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

DaveWB;2014433 said:


> I think I would hire as many as I could and have less headache if there are no-shows, "my car broke down", etc...
> Would you say about 18 man hours is pretty accurate?
> They told me that they only had one skid in the past when I asked. I got a buddy with a case w20c wheel loader that could backdrag these drives in one pass but I don't know how reliable it is. The sidewalks could be done with a tractor Blower but they have that 90 degree angle so they'll have to be done with a walk behind Blower or shovels.


18 man hrs depends on how good the guys or gals are with their equipment and what the conditions are. I never priced snow removal on man hrs so that is your call.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WIPensFan;2014548 said:


> 18 man hrs depends on how good the guys or gals are with their equipment and what the conditions are. *I never priced snow removal on man hrs *so that is your call.


All snow removal is based on hours, that is what we sell, time.

4 hours for plowing with a tractor and inverted blower.

10 for walks?


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;2014553 said:


> All snow removal is based on hours, that is what we sell, time.
> 
> 4 hours for plowing with a tractor and inverted blower.
> 
> 10 for walks?


You can do it how you want, that's not how I did it.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

You need a tractor and inverted blower, not trucks and a skid steer. And a Ventrac, not walk behind blowers. 

We do an HOA that is a similar size, without the road that winds all over, it is a straight line. One skid with a Kage can do it in about 4 hours with 2 inches of snow. The tractor and blower just eliminates the piles that you have with a skid steer. 

I'm going to guess in the area of 8-10 MH for walks, since you're doing it with walk behind blowers. Some will be faster, some will be slower.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen;2014753 said:


> You need a tractor and inverted blower, not trucks and a skid steer. And a Ventrac, not walk behind blowers.
> 
> We do an HOA that is a similar size, without the road that winds all over, it is a straight line. One skid with a Kage can do it in about 4 hours with 2 inches of snow. The tractor and blower just eliminates the piles that you have with a skid steer.
> 
> I'm going to guess in the area of 8-10 MH for walks, since you're doing it with walk behind blowers. Some will be faster, some will be slower.


I like you're thinking.


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## DaveWB (Jun 24, 2011)

John_DeereGreen;2014753 said:


> You need a tractor and inverted blower, not trucks and a skid steer. And a Ventrac, not walk behind blowers.
> 
> We do an HOA that is a similar size, without the road that winds all over, it is a straight line. One skid with a Kage can do it in about 4 hours with 2 inches of snow. The tractor and blower just eliminates the piles that you have with a skid steer.
> 
> I'm going to guess in the area of 8-10 MH for walks, since you're doing it with walk behind blowers. Some will be faster, some will be slower.


As sweet and efficient as a inverted blower/tractor sounds I don't think I have the means for one right now, I was possibly thinking about a snowblower for the skid (looking to add a high flow cat skid towards the end of the year).

Does $20,300 for the season including salt sound about right?


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## DaveWB (Jun 24, 2011)

DaveWB;2014812 said:


> Does $20,300 for the season including salt sound about right?


Ok maybe I was off, 
this was my breakdown/thinking:
Salt	7200
Plowing: 13,100

We have on average 13.4 snowfalls with 1 inch, 4.7 with 3 inches, 2.1 with 5 inches, and .3 with 10 inches.

That means that there would be about 20.5 salting events correct? 
3.03 acres of area, about 1k lbs of salt per acre. .30 per pound would be $909 per event times 20.5 events would give me 18,634.50 just for salt.

That would bring my season price to $31,734.50


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

DaveWB;2014433 said:


> I think I would hire as many as I could and have less headache if there are no-shows, "my car broke down", etc...
> Would you say about 18 man hours is pretty accurate?
> They told me that they only had one skid in the past when I asked. I got a buddy with a case w20c wheel loader that could backdrag these drives in one pass but I don't know how reliable it is. The sidewalks could be done with a tractor Blower but they have that 90 degree angle so they'll have to be done with a walk behind Blower or shovels.


You can't put a loader of that size in someone's driveway. If you do you'll be replacing a lot of concrete. I would think any operator could plow 64 drives with a skid steer in around 2 hours provided you put at least an 8' blade on it. As far as the sidewalks go, I'd have 2-3 guys with blowers and walk behind spreaders for salting.


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## DaveWB (Jun 24, 2011)

Price must have been too high for them lol


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## buildinon (Oct 6, 2011)

I live in a th subdivision twice the size of this one with a club house and parking lots as well. When they come in to plow it, they have 3 skids (2 with plows that back drag / plow the drive ways, 1 with pusher box that moves the snow down the street), 4-4 man shovel or blower crews depending on the conditions (and they do a path in front of the garages for the plows). They don't salt at all, that is up to the homeowners. They get the whole place done including public walkways in less than 4 hours.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

buildinon;2015941 said:


> I live in a th subdivision twice the size of this one with a club house and parking lots as well. When they come in to plow it, they have 3 skids (2 with plows that back drag / plow the drive ways, 1 with pusher box that moves the snow down the street), 4-4 man shovel or blower crews depending on the conditions (and they do a path in front of the garages for the plows). They don't salt at all, that is up to the homeowners. They get the whole place done including public walkways in less than 4 hours.


Whoa whoa whoa...without a tractor and inverted blower?? How is that even possible?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

WIPensFan;2016230 said:


> Whoa whoa whoa...without a tractor and inverted blower?? How is that even possible?


Why send 3 machines to do the job of 1?


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

John_DeereGreen;2016254 said:


> Why send 3 machines to do the job of 1?


My guess is those 3 machines make money and do work in the other 3 seasons that a tractor can't do.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

WIPensFan;2016256 said:


> My guess is those 3 machines make money and do work in the other 3 seasons that a tractor can't do.


Just imagine...what those 3 machines on sites that they'd shine on would be able to produce in a season, while letting a tractor do it's job where it belongs...and pay for it's self in the process.

That's a win-win.


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## buildinon (Oct 6, 2011)

Around here very few, and I mean very few people use or even own inverted blowers. People are not farmers or have use for farm type tractors in other seasons. Being that most landscapers or construction. Most have a variation of skid steers, small loaders, full size loaders and trucks galore. So it doesn't make sense to have a piece of equipment (ie: the tractor with blower) for most as it would sit most of the year. Where as a skid steer can be used year round to do a multitude of tasks in a variety of industries. Same as mini loaders and full size wheel loaders.
We for instance use skids in the winter with plows, push boxes, blowers, broom attachments, snow buckets, pallet forks, regular buckets and salters off the top of my head. During the summer the list is as long if not longer. So it is a way more versatile piece of equipment. 
We as well use blowers on end loaders for blowing snow piles off of lots and or into truck for transporting off site or relocating. But those are a whole different beast.
Everyone has a different business model for a reason. Some work and some don't. Anyone who keeps advancing year after year has something figured out in my opinion.


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