# Subbing?



## Walleye Hunter (Aug 13, 2017)

Hello! :waving:
I'm a retired old truck driver who now has a plow truck to keep his own driveway clean in SE PA. I'm not looking for a full time job but do like to keep myself busy and after looking around here I am considering working as a sub if I can find work. Being new to this I am not very familiar with things and I like to KNOW rather than GUESS, what things are/mean. So...I'll start by saying (yeah, kind of late for 'starting') that I expect that 'sub' means to subcontract to a larger company who needs help on occasion. Am I right, or wrong?

Once I know what my title would be I'll need to know a little about the business aspect of it. I have read a little about the varying rates for a 'sub' depending on region worked in. The biggest question I have is insurance, as a 'sub' would I be working under the other guy's (whatever his title is) insurance? Would I affix his sign to my vehicle while performing the work? And finally (for now) I expect that a contract would be in order, is there a place where sample contracts could be found?

Thanks,
Mark


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Walleye Hunter said:


> Hello! :waving:
> I'm a retired old truck driver who now has a plow truck to keep his own driveway clean in SE PA. I'm not looking for a full time job but do like to keep myself busy and after looking around here I am considering working as a sub if I can find work. Being new to this I am not very familiar with things and I like to KNOW rather than GUESS, what things are/mean. So...I'll start by saying (yeah, kind of late for 'starting') that I expect that 'sub' means to subcontract to a larger company who needs help on occasion. Am I right, or wrong?
> 
> Once I know what my title would be I'll need to know a little about the business aspect of it. I have read a little about the varying rates for a 'sub' depending on region worked in. The biggest question I have is insurance, as a 'sub' would I be working under the other guy's (whatever his title is) insurance? Would I affix his sign to my vehicle while performing the work? And finally (for now) I expect that a contract would be in order, is there a place where sample contracts could be found?
> ...


It would not be a full time job but you have to be ready, Day, Night, Holidays, If your subbing it's not on occasion you are responsible for the work subbed to you anytime during a snow event. It's not a good idea to work under somebody else liabilities if you could find somebody to even do it, There is a few but most don't want to because they don't want to be responsible for possibly damage or injury that may occur.

Do yourself a favor and have your own GL and comp. and go at it. Your truck is heavy enough Dodge 3500 no? and should be welcome anywhere you sub. I would invest in a spreader it pays well and your butt will be covered in case of a slip and fall because you spread. Keep in mind in a slip in fall those attorneys are brutalized they will go after anybody involved. If you don't want to spread make sure your attorney approves your contract where you are not responsible. If your looking for sample contracts you should be able to search on plow site. There is more to it than this. Others will respond.


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## Walleye Hunter (Aug 13, 2017)

FredG said:


> It would not be a full time job but you have to be ready, Day, Night, Holidays, If your subbing it's not on occasion you are responsible for the work subbed to you anytime during a snow event. It's not a good idea to work under somebody else liabilities if you could find somebody to even do it, There is a few but most don't want to because they don't want to be responsible for possibly damage or injury that may occur.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and have your own GL and comp. and go at it. Your truck is heavy enough Dodge 3500 no? and should be welcome anywhere you sub. I would invest in a spreader it pays well and your butt will be covered in case of a slip and fall because you spread. Keep in mind in a slip in fall those attorneys are brutalized they will go after anybody involved. If you don't want to spread make sure your attorney approves your contract where you are not responsible. If your looking for sample contracts you should be able to search on plow site. There is more to it than this. Others will respond.


Truck is F-250 but the springs are beefed up to almost 350 specs, I figure it's heavy enough and I could beef it further if need be. What is a GL? I do have an LLC for another endeavor, which is about done.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Yes, sub is short for subcontractor. I am a sub for a large company like you described. Fred is correct, it's not really a part time thing. Only difference would be the already have the contracts, and hire you to perform the work. They also usually tell you when to start.

For me and the current company I use (some I've used in the past are a little different, but basically the same) this is how it goes. Usually in September they contact me make sure I'm still going to work this winter. I tell them what kind of equipment, help, etc I can bring to the table. Then around late Oct - early Nov they email the route with info on where to stack snow, hours of operation at each place, pay, etc. Once it looks like the snow is going to fall they call or text with a game plan (it usually changes). They call when it's time to go out, day or night. Then you do your route and go home. More or less that's about it. They will go over everything with you on how they do things. It's not really a "fill in" type job. You still need insurance and you are your own business. They count on you to do the same lots every storm, unless they need help somewhere else.

If you have more questions or I didn't cover something let me know


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Walleye Hunter said:


> Truck is F-250 but the springs are beefed up to almost 350 specs, I figure it's heavy enough and I could beef it further if need be. What is a GL? I do have an LLC for another endeavor, which is about done.


GL is general liability insurance. It covers you for damages to property, slip and falls, and your equipment. Your insurance agent will help you out with all that. I would Add it to your LLC so you are separate from your business. You will also probably need commercial auto on your truck


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Walleye Hunter said:


> Truck is F-250 but the springs are beefed up to almost 350 specs, I figure it's heavy enough and I could beef it further if need be. What is a GL? I do have an LLC for another endeavor, which is about done.


General liability, You could probably sign off the workmans comp as a sole operations. Most jobs they request it sole or not. Would not be to bad because you have no payroll you should pay the minimal. Your Gl Will need completed snow operations added. You could probably use your LLC for snow. You will have to check. You don't probably want Joe's hoe house on your truck plowing snow. I know in NY at least you have to have your business name a long with DOT #'s.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

put yourself on call to work for someone using their equipment, paycheck at the end of any week you work and no headaches


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

leolkfrm said:


> put yourself on call to work for someone using their equipment, paycheck at the end of any week you work and no headaches


That would be an employee, not a sub. But something he could consider as well. I wouldn't, it's not for me. If I've already got the equipment I may as well capitalize on it. I don't know what insurance rates cost in PA Walleye Hunter, but around here you can usually get a 1M policy for around 700.00 per year give or take. And yes, most companies will also require you to carry commercial truck insurance. The company I sub for also requires a workman's comp policy even if it's just me working (It covers absolutely nothing, but I call it the cost of doing business), and can be had for about a grand a year. Whether you salt or not is completely up to you. You can make more money if you're equipped to salt as well, but it will eat your truck up more quickly (even if you wash it regularly, because you're usually not washing the undercarriage).

The contract part, you really don't have to worry about. Any "professional company" will have their own contracts for you to sign, assuming you approve of what they require contractually.

One company I subbed for sucked. I never had a route, they'd just sent you from place to place randomly, and you didn't get to know the lots very well, or establish a fast "system" from knowing the lot. The place I sub for now I like a lot more. In a few weeks I'll meet with the owner, and he'll give me a list of sites with price breakdowns. I'll look through them all, drive them once to get actual eyes on the properties, and pick enough sites for two routes for my trucks. This way of subbing is MUCH better as far as I'm concerned. This way, I know what my route is, I know what my pay will be for my route, and I have an idea of how long I'm going to be out there depending on how much snow we get. The last company that just sent me all over the place sucked, because I never knew how many hours I was going to get, or where I was going to work. I sometimes ended up in the worst possible places in Chicago. If I can answer anymore questions for you, please feel free to ask.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JustJeff said:


> That would be an employee, not a sub. But something he could consider as well. I wouldn't, it's not for me. If I've already got the equipment I may as well capitalize on it. I don't know what insurance rates cost in PA Walleye Hunter, but around here you can usually get a 1M policy for around 700.00 per year give or take. And yes, most companies will also require you to carry commercial truck insurance. The company I sub for also requires a workman's comp policy even if it's just me working (It covers absolutely nothing, but I call it the cost of doing business), and can be had for about a grand a year. Whether you salt or not is completely up to you. You can make more money if you're equipped to salt as well, but it will eat your truck up more quickly (even if you wash it regularly, because you're usually not washing the undercarriage).
> 
> The contract part, you really don't have to worry about. Any "professional company" will have their own contracts for you to sign, assuming you approve of what they require contractually.
> 
> One company I subbed for sucked. I never had a route, they'd just sent you from place to place randomly, and you didn't get to know the lots very well, or establish a fast "system" from knowing the lot. The place I sub for now I like a lot more. In a few weeks I'll meet with the owner, and he'll give me a list of sites with price breakdowns. I'll look through them all, drive them once to get actual eyes on the properties, and pick enough sites for two routes for my trucks. This way of subbing is MUCH better as far as I'm concerned. This way, I know what my route is, I know what my pay will be for my route, and I have an idea of how long I'm going to be out there depending on how much snow we get. The last company that just sent me all over the place sucked, because I never knew how many hours I was going to get, or where I was going to work. I sometimes ended up in the worst possible places in Chicago. If I can answer anymore questions for you, please feel free to ask.


Nailed it.

I personally prefer being a subcontractor. Other than I don't make as much as guys on their own, I deal with much less of the headaches. If I break down they have others to cover, I don't deal with customers, I don't deal trying to collect a bunch of checks, just one, I don't have to watch the weather as much (although I still do to keep my employees in the loop), and I don't need to worry about finding work. There are a few down sides, but for me it works.


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## Walleye Hunter (Aug 13, 2017)

Jeff and JMH, thanks, that's the input I was hoping for. I have one guy near me who does plow work and I'll go see him first. He also has a Ford fleet and I'm getting to be pretty good at fixing mine...who knows what could happen.


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