# Liquid Deicer



## mchur01 (Jan 14, 2007)

Hey guys thinking about possibly trying liquid deicing, whats your thoughts, or if you have used it how is it comparable to salt??? Don't really know any1 in our area to ask..


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## EliteSnow&Ice (Sep 30, 2008)

This is my third season using well brine, and have had good luck with it. 

We started the first season with a 1 ton truck, 275 gallon IBC tote, a 5gpm elec pump, and 7 teejet sprayer tips. Very slow going you could only go 2 to 3 miles per hour or go over the lot 4 five time to get enough product down to get it do work.

The 2nd season we added a second 5gpm elec punp and a tailgate salt spreader. We would apply 80% to 90% liquid and 10% bagged salt. Worked better and where able to cover the lots a little faster.

This year we bought a GMC w4500, 550 gallon tank, 4 hp 1 1/2" pacer pump, 1" teejet ball bearing valve and jumped up to 13 teejet nozzles. Not sure how much product were putting down per min due to the fact we where so late in the season getting it set up. We run half throttle, 35psi and drive 8 to 10 mph, and it seems to get enough product down.

With very limited storage space, liquid made sense. We bought 30 (cost was $50 each), 325 gallon ibc totes and stack the 2 high in a 14 x 30 storage space and it left room for a couple of pallets of bagged salt.

So what do I think I know:

Is liquid a 100% replacement for rock salt 100% of the time, no. Does it work well for me on my lots 90% of the time, yes. If we have Ice, hard pack, really cold weather or really wet snow we have to adjust and throw rock salt with it.

We use it as both a pretreat and post treat. As a pretreat we hit some lot that we would plow with 1" of snow prior to the storm if the snow is going to come during the day. Liquid doesn't go any where, or get tracked off very much so it stays till it snow comes and lets us stay out of the lots during business hours and most times we reapply and met the remaining snow off.

As a post treatment is where it shines, We apply right after plowing a lot. It hits the ground its off and running and alot of time before i can make my next loop the first it bare and black, its that fast. Ive tried 2 different suppliers and I like both products, the cost is the same, but they seem to work slightly different the each other. Both are about the same 26% to 28% and are the same base calcium chloride. One seems to take off faster but doesnt last as long where the other is slower but last longer. There could be many factors as to what makes me think this way. Temp, moisture content, variance in application, blah blah blah.

What I am thinking:

1. investing in a sprayer control unit with flow rate and pressure control. Sure its a $2000 to $2500 investment. Is it worth the investment to a small guy like me that only applies 60000 gallons in a season? Maybe, I like the ideal of being ably to apply a consist amount of product across a lot regardless of how fast or slow the driver travels.

2. Learning how i can add certain chemicals to the product to increase its effectiveness depending on weather conditions and temp.

Oh 1 more thing, the search button is your friend. Most of everything I have learned has come for these forums. I want to take a moment and thank all of those who willing supply knowledge and their experiences.


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## Brinemaster (Jul 11, 2011)

Anybody try any of the new automated brinemakers on the market? Wondering how long it would take to recover costs! Thanks for the replies.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

EliteSnow&Ice, 
"This year we bought a GMC w4500, 550 gallon tank, 4 hp 1 1/2" pacer pump, 1" teejet ball bearing valve and jumped up to 13 teejet nozzles. Not sure how much product were putting down per min due to the fact we where so late in the season getting it set up. We run half throttle, 35psi and drive 8 to 10 mph, and it seems to get enough product down."

1) If you give me the TeeJet nozzle number I'll calculate it out for you.

2) Rate Controller? The more complicated the equipment, the more can go wrong? Just My Opinion.

3) I use a 90/10 mix. 90 % Salt Brine and 10% Calcium Chloride. Make my own salt brine, lowers the cost considerably and works great. Below 5 degrees approx. I spray cal chloride straight.


Brinemaster ,

Look under Ice Management for My New Brinemaker Thread. Not exactly commercial but another member used it to make 30,000 gallons last winter.


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## EliteSnow&Ice (Sep 30, 2008)

I am using sj3-20-vp at 30psi, which should give me 1.75 gallons per min. using water.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Yep, and 55-79 gal/acre at 8-10 mph.


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## EliteSnow&Ice (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks for the math. I guess I am going to try and change tips to get a higher flow or add more heads. Can u tell me, if I want to jump up to 100 gallons an acre and drive 10 to 12 mph what size tips I would need to run at 30 psi


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

EliteSnow&Ice;1292386 said:


> Thanks for the math. I guess I am going to try and change tips to get a higher flow or add more heads. Can u tell me, if I want to jump up to 100 gallons an acre and drive 10 to 12 mph what size tips I would need to run at 30 psi


Wait a minute....13 tips....oops....What spacing are your tips...20"? That's what I based my numbers on. Black SJ3's are the largest of the triple stream .You have the volume from your pump/valve.

For the 90/10 mix I spray, my spray bar in my avatar has 16= SJ3=20 tips and 4 fan spray tips on a 100" boom. It's like having a Snow Eraser.


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## MASMG (Jul 17, 2011)

*liquids*

We are a snow removal company that is owned by a property management company in Wi. Ownership is expanding into Western Michigan, Indiana and parts of Ohio with a purchase of a large package of industrial/office buildings. We use liquids here in Wi. and trying to find out what is used in those areas and what the cost are for semi loads and totes. Looking for a chloride such as calcium or mag, and a blend of cal or mag with one of the organics (beet, magic, corn)
Any info would be great.

Thanks,
Steve
Mid-America Snow Management Group


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## viper881 (Jan 14, 2009)

What part of western michigan would it be shipped to


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## MASMG (Jul 17, 2011)

We would be looking at Grand Rapids, Muskegon, Battle Creek and Wayland. We also soon will be looking for contractors in those areas.
Thanks
Steve


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Wow, elite 60,000 sounds like a lot to run though 300 gallon totes !!!we had a truck set up to just spray for the last 3 seasons it would put down 2000 gallons a night and I think we only used 60-70,000 gallons. We are now out of liquid deicing due to us selling that truck. 
Just sold the 1000g leg tank but have the gas motor, in cable control with regulator and spray bar if someone wants to make me a offere


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## EliteSnow&Ice (Sep 30, 2008)

Superior L & L;1293342 said:


> Wow, elite 60,000 sounds like a lot to run though 300 gallon totes !!!we had a truck set up to just spray for the last 3 seasons it would put down 2000 gallons a night and I think we only used 60-70,000 gallons. We are now out of liquid deicing due to us selling that truck.
> Just sold the 1000g leg tank but have the gas motor, in cable control with regulator and spray bar if someone wants to make me a offere


The company that supplies me says I am the only one in Michigan that they know of storing bulk liquied in IBC totes. It does take a little longer to fill them when he delivers the product, but I am on site helping to unload. Alot of my accounts are with in a 5 mile raidus of my shop, and its quick trips back to fill up.


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## EliteSnow&Ice (Sep 30, 2008)

Kubota 8540;1292395 said:


> Wait a minute....13 tips....oops....What spacing are your tips...20"? That's what I based my numbers on. Black SJ3's are the largest of the triple stream .You have the volume from your pump/valve.
> 
> For the 90/10 mix I spray, my spray bar in my avatar has 16= SJ3=20 tips and 4 fan spray tips on a 100" boom. It's like having a Snow Eraser.


So thats a total of 20 tips on a 100" bar, 20" off the ground?

My control value is a teejet 1" flanged ball valve with 100 gpm with a 5psi drop. I've got 1" hose down to the spray bar and the bar is 3/4" hose connected to between each sprayer tip.

Do you run any type of metering device? I have to check the tank lvl after each customer to figure out how much has been applied.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

EliteSnow&Ice;1293458 said:


> So thats a total of 20 tips on a 100" bar, 20" off the ground?
> 
> My control value is a teejet 1" flanged ball valve with 100 gpm with a 5psi drop. I've got 1" hose down to the spray bar and the bar is 3/4" hose connected to between each sprayer tip.
> 
> Do you run any type of metering device? I have to check the tank lvl after each customer to figure out how much has been applied.


Yes 20 tips 5" apart on a 100"long x 1" diameter bar. I think it's the one in my avatar picture. Sounds like we have the same basic setups.

Figured out that a metering device really wasn't necessary, if you run approx right speed and it's 1 less cost and item to screw up. I generally check the tank level to make sure I have used the right amount, seeing how I already know the size of each lot.


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## bharkness (Oct 8, 2008)

Give us a call The De-icemaster 800-286-7312


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## ANA Proscapes (Jul 14, 2011)

Superior L & L;1293342 said:


> Wow, elite 60,000 sounds like a lot to run though 300 gallon totes !!!we had a truck set up to just spray for the last 3 seasons it would put down 2000 gallons a night and I think we only used 60-70,000 gallons. We are now out of liquid deicing due to us selling that truck.
> Just sold the 1000g leg tank but have the gas motor, in cable control with regulator and spray bar if someone wants to make me a offere


Why did you get out of liquid de-icing? I thought you where having great results with it?


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

This year we bought a* GMC w4500, 550 gallon tank*, 4 hp 1 1/2" pacer pump, 1" teejet ball bearing valve and jumped up to 13 teejet nozzles. Not sure how much product were putting down per min due to the fact we where so late in the season getting it set up. We run half throttle, 35psi and drive 8 to 10 mph, and it seems to get enough product down.

We have that same setup our truck w/ a few Mods.... pump is a 6.5HP pump with the same size tank but We have 2 nozzles Which spray the whole width of the truck +a couple ft when we kick the pump up a little.

*What bed did you get on yours??* I assume the dump or flatbed. We got the regular tailgate bed. And one punch on the brakes i guess the tank shifted and cracked the bed by the wheel well....
Didnt find this out until the end of the season when we were taking the tank out.

BAck to the question: We love liquid we use it more than rock. But when you spread and spray they work sooooooo well!
To use liquid you have to get used to it. You gotta know ground temps and a couple other factors. If you Get a State of the art Sprayer, Spray the liquid every which way you;re gonna hate it... then guys like me end up buying you guys' setups for close to nothing!

ROCK is a Pain!!!!!! You cant keep Rock in your truck For more than a Night of so. Liquid i can keep in my truck for the whole season! In Michigan!


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

We used liquid for a few years and had great luck with it. Its nice not having to worry about it freezing up. We did quite a bit of salting with the 550 gallon system we have....WHICH IS FOR SALE> details are at my original post "550 gallon liquid system". Its easier to load up, and you can get into a gravity fed system for very little money as we started.


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

Brian Young;1297968 said:


> We used liquid for a few years and had great luck with it. Its nice not having to worry about it freezing up. We did quite a bit of salting with the 550 gallon system we have....WHICH IS FOR SALE> details are at my original post "550 gallon liquid system". Its easier to load up, and you can get into a gravity fed system for very little money as we started.


Only Problem with Gravity Fed Systems is they arent very efficient/slow. 
I have 5gpm pump on my walkbehind brine sprayer


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Plow man Foster;1297972 said:


> Only Problem with Gravity Fed Systems is they arent very efficient/slow.
> I have 5gpm pump on my walkbehind brine sprayer


I have to disagree. We could unload that 550 gallon tank in a matter of a few minutes. We would run at about 7-10 mph and it put it down very fast and covered well. There's no doubt a pressurized system is the way to go but gravity fed systems aren't that bad and are way cheaper especially if your just starting out.


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## ChlorideGuy (Nov 24, 2008)

hey guys seems like its that time of the year again..... if you have any questions please fee free to call myself or Ed @ 1810 395 8600 or 877 3 4BRINE thanks guys!!!!!!!

MIKE


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## EliteSnow&Ice (Sep 30, 2008)

Anyone have a source and price for 33% liquid


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## ChlorideGuy (Nov 24, 2008)

1 877 3 4brine


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## rowebot00 (Sep 6, 2011)

I NEED HELP IN MAKING A BRINE SPRAYER FOR MY FORRD F240.
I HAVE STARTED TO MAKE MY OWN 400GAL BRINE MAKER, BUT NEED SOME HELP IN PUTTING THINGS TOGETHER.
CAN SOMEONE HELP!!!

IT WILL BE MY FIRST SNOW SEASON! [email protected] comcast.net


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

rowebot00;1308894 said:


> I NEED HELP IN MAKING A BRINE SPRAYER FOR MY FORRD F240.
> I HAVE STARTED TO MAKE MY OWN 400GAL BRINE MAKER, BUT NEED SOME HELP IN PUTTING THINGS TOGETHER.
> CAN SOMEONE HELP!!!
> 
> IT WILL BE MY FIRST SNOW SEASON! [email protected] comcast.net


You lost me...... 
Its your first snow season and you are making your own brine maker???? 
My suggestion is (since its your first snow season) just buy the brine from a local dealer. Either fill it up when you need it or store it in your own storage tank....

What kind of sprayer do you have and how many accounts do you plan on using brine on?


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## Dumpster Guy (Oct 9, 2008)

I have searched through hundreds of posts but the one question I have is if you are using a salt brine how long does it stay brine. Won't the salt settle? I am just negotiating on a used brine maker and I am still trying to figure out some of those key questions.

I Western Canada only Highways and municipalities use liquid, if I invest in a small brine maker can I brew the brine and sell it to other small contractors to help recoupe my capital cost? Can I sell them a tote of brine and if so how long will it actually stay brine without having to re-mixit


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

Dumpster Guy;1308951 said:


> I have searched through hundreds of posts but the one question I have is if you are using a salt brine how long does it stay brine. Won't the salt settle? I am just negotiating on a used brine maker and I am still trying to figure out some of those key questions.
> 
> I Western Canada only Highways and municipalities use liquid, if I invest in a small brine maker can I brew the brine and sell it to other small contractors to help recoupe my capital cost? Can I sell them a tote of brine and if so how long will it actually stay brine without having to re-mixit


One thing i like about brine is it doesnt Expire....I had 2k gallons of brine left over from the year before last used it last year and it worked like it was just purchased "fresh." 
I know you guys are going to laugh but I think its like kool-aid, Once its mixed its not going to change. Just the way it is.... I dont see the difference.
But then again i dont make my own i buy if from a local supply yard. Then they come and fill up my tanks.


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## rowebot00 (Sep 6, 2011)

*brine maker*

I have fiver commercial accounts.
Three are 100 +parking lots the other two are 30 and 50, and-15 residential accounts.
I live in south jersey and brine is not available,( if someone knows ware I can get it please let me know.) there is plenty of rock salt. I can make 800 gal of brine for under $200.

The brine maker is not difficult to make, I can get all the components but need some help on putting things together.
I also want to make a brine sprayer for my truck!!!


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

rowebot00;1308965 said:


> I have fiver commercial accounts.
> Three are 100 +parking *SPACE?* lots the other two are 30 and 50, and 15 residential accounts.
> I live in south jersey and brine is not available,( if someone knows were I can get it please let me know.) there is plenty of rock salt. I can make 800 gal of brine for under $200.
> 
> ...


Ok well Jim Made a nice Brine maker he also builds them And delivers them. if you go to his page there are pics of them... here is the like to his youtube video. 



 his name on here is Kubota 8540

I would talk to your local supply yards and ask them about liquid Cal./ brine. Because around here every local supply yard has brine or something they call brine!


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Brian Young;1298059 said:


> I have to disagree. We could unload that 550 gallon tank in a matter of a few minutes. We would run at about 7-10 mph and it put it down very fast and covered well. There's no doubt a pressurized system is the way to go but gravity fed systems aren't that bad and are way cheaper especially if your just starting out.


I would totally agree. a gravity system is not slow in anyway, if it is, just get out your drill.

the only cons i found to a gravity system, are as follows:

cant really adjust the flow rate with out drilling or modifying your boom set up. -- fix is to adjust driving speed

because its not pressureized the wind can mess with it more, so having a boom that is close to the ground or even one that is movable for height is very helpfull

cant fan spray- and no way around that

requires a very good boom design, and failure to spend the time and effort will result in poor spraying preformance, or it will waste alot of chemical when the system is shut down.

even with a good design, you still waste alot after shut down, and so you have to remember to flip the switch in advanced.

Other than that, a gravity system has a ton of good things going for it.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

rowebot00;1308894 said:


> I NEED HELP IN MAKING A BRINE SPRAYER FOR MY FORRD F240.
> I HAVE STARTED TO MAKE MY OWN 400GAL BRINE MAKER, BUT NEED SOME HELP IN PUTTING THINGS TOGETHER.
> CAN SOMEONE HELP!!!
> 
> IT WILL BE MY FIRST SNOW SEASON! [email protected] comcast.net


Yes you found me again. I can't sell you a parts list and directions. Don't have that info readily available and I am not going to sit down and write out step for step. Start a NEW THREAD and show us what you have started and I'll be glad to help you in the evenings when I have time.



Plow man Foster;1308954 said:


> One thing i like about brine is it doesnt Expire....I had 2k gallons of brine left over from the year before last used it last year and it worked like it was just purchased "fresh."
> I know you guys are going to laugh but I think its like kool-aid, Once its mixed its not going to change. Just the way it is.... I dont see the difference.
> But then again i dont make my own i buy if from a local supply yard. Then they come and fill up my tanks.


I make my own and have had 2 year old brine that was just fine. About the only thing that settles out are the impurities suspended in the liquid.(fine sand and etc.)



Plow man Foster;1308971 said:


> Ok well Jim Made a nice Brine maker he also builds them And delivers them. if you go to his page there are pics of them... here is the like to his youtube video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did I deliver a sprayer to you north of Detroit?

I know there is a contractor in Jersey somewhere with a brinemaker because I sold one last fall to a guy there. Don't remember the address tho.


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

Kubota 8540;1309028 said:


> Yes you found me again. I can't sell you a parts list and directions. Don't have that info readily available and I am not going to sit down and write out step for step. Start a NEW THREAD and show us what you have started and I'll be glad to help you in the evenings when I have time.
> 
> I make my own and have had 2 year old brine that was just fine. About the only thing that settles out are the impurities suspended in the liquid.(fine sand and etc.)
> 
> ...


ahhaha No i wish you did though! No i just was "stalking" your pictures and saw a pic of a sprayer or maker (cant remember) on a semi trailer....

Also i think The Chloride guy goes out there... Um and a few others just got to google them.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Plow man Foster;1309034 said:


> ahhaha No i wish you did though! No i just was "stalking" your pictures and saw a pic of a sprayer or maker (cant remember) on a semi trailer....
> 
> Also i think The Chloride guy goes out there... Um and a few others just got to google them.


OK, I thought maybe you were up by Ray MI where I sold and delivered a sprayer last fall. I was contacted thru ebay on a sprayer I had listed. Sold it to him he paid for delivery and I bought a v box at Angelos on the way back. Worked out great.

A whole semi load of liquid equipment went to CT & Jersey last fall. That was a VERY tall load, but it made it out there OK.

Robot contacted me thru ebay also recently and I have been kind of busy, haven't had a chance to get back to him. He wanted to buy a DIY instruction kit/parts list. Really don't have one to sell, all the info is just gibberish notes and thoughts basically.

Read where he delivers to 48 states?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Plow man Foster;1309034 said:


> ahhaha No i wish you did though! No i just was "stalking" your pictures and saw a pic of a sprayer or maker (cant remember) on a semi trailer....
> 
> Also i think The Chloride guy goes out there... Um and a few others just got to google them.


Stop wishing and lets make it happen....LOL

You can find what ever I have listed on Ebay by putting this in your Address bar... http://myworld.ebay.com/johnson3147


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

Kubota 8540;1309051 said:


> Stop wishing and lets make it happen....LOL
> 
> You can find what ever I have listed on Ebay by putting this in your Address bar... http://myworld.ebay.com/johnson3147


Hahhaha I'll let my Boss know about it! Not really sure about how i feel about making my own brine or if he will want to buy the brine maker.... we'll see though!


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