# What are you doing to find good employees



## grnstripes

So we all have the problem of finding those good employees 
Craigslist, help wanted adds , dept of labor exc just don't seem to work anymore. So I ask what are you guys doing that seems to work to find that top dog employee


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## Avalanche 2500

I know what u mean about C/L.s I,am in the flooring business some of those guys come W/ ALOT of baggage.
They want top $ + lie about exp. turns out clueless. Good luck! lowblue:


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## LapeerLandscape

What are we doing to find good employees? Going thru a lot of them.


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## leigh

grnstripes said:


> So we all have the problem of finding those good employees
> Craigslist, help wanted adds , dept of labor exc just don't seem to work anymore. So I ask what are you guys doing that seems to work to find that top dog employee


My plow subs are all self employed contractors (relatives) so that works out perfectly. I've gone thru all my nephews over the last 20 years to work sidewalk crew.The word gets out and I usually have plenty willing to work.We only get 6-10 events so its not like its a real job around here. My dream would be to find someone that is a contractor,ins etc that would just do all my sidewalks for a set price so I didn't have to even think about them.But its a challenge for sure,I'm sure we all have some crazy stories!


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## JMHConstruction

I'll let you know when I find out myself


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## Mr.Markus

1st world problems...Lol.


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## ktfbgb

I'm not sure there are any good employees left. You gotta scalp them from other companies lol.


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## JMHConstruction

ktfbgb said:


> I'm not sure there are any good employees left. You gotta scalp them from other companies lol.


Doing a job today that was apparently a few blocks away from my old company. Had a guy come up to me as we were loading up and ask if we were hiring. He had on the company shirts, so I asked what he didn't like about them. Apparently he is a laborer, but he doesn't like to carry all the lumber and doing the "***** work" for what he's making. I guess he found out he was making $2 less than one of the carpenters. I told him he'd be in the same boat with me, so no thanks. I was honestly thinking the whole time, man I should try and get the carpenter who's only making $2 more than the laborer! If it wasn't for my old boss (we are still friends), I'd try and fish him out of there.


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## ktfbgb

JMHConstruction said:


> Doing a job today that was apparently a few blocks away from my old company. Had a guy come up to me as we were loading up and ask if we were hiring. He had on the company shirts, so I asked what he didn't like about them. Apparently he is a laborer, but he doesn't like to carry all the lumber and doing the "***** work" for what he's making. I guess he found out he was making $2 less than one of the carpenters. I told him he'd be in the same boat with me, so no thanks. I was honestly thinking the whole time, man I should try and get the carpenter who's only making $2 more than the laborer! If it wasn't for my old boss (we are still friends), I'd try and fish him out of there.


That's hilarious. People are idiots. My busy season is in full swing as of this week. 3 remodels already lined out back to back. I need to hire some guys but haven't found any with it yet. And with our new minimum wage which just increased pay 50% basically overnight I'm finding it harder to swallow hiring a marginal guy and giving him a chance.


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## Randall Ave

ktfbgb said:


> That's hilarious. People are idiots. My busy season is in full swing as of this week. 3 remodels already lined out back to back. I need to hire some guys but haven't found any with it yet. And with our new minimum wage which just increased pay 50% basically overnight I'm finding it harder to swallow hiring a marginal guy and giving him a chance.


What's the average that you pay a laborer out there?


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## LapeerLandscape

I think good labor is going to get harder and harder to find. We have raised kids that either grow up and go to college for an office job or they are living in moms basement not working while mom raises the kids.


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## JMHConstruction

In the summer when we're our busiest and it's hotter than hell I hire a laborer. Pay him $12/hr. They usually don't last through the summer, so I don't have to worry about it when we slow down. I know when I started as a laborer I made $9/hr. I know when I started in this business I wanted to do more, but it seems the guys out there just want to show up and do the job as it's described in the job description, and they don't want to learn anything. I'd love a good laborer who wants to learn. I would prefer someone I taught from the ground up, and it wouldn't be hard in my small company to move up.


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## dingybigfoot

Had a guy tell me "no thank you" when I called him the other day to show up for sidewalks. This was after he showed up for a storm a day and a half prior.


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## ktfbgb

Randall Ave said:


> What's the average that you pay a laborer out there?


So state minimum wage on December 31 2016 was $8.15 or so. Then the next day went to $10.00. Now to compound on top of that the city also passed a min wage law that starts July 1 this year. On July 1 it goes to $12.00. So a 50% wage hike in 6 months.

Typically I start a laborer out at $10, which is pretty standard across the board for us. Our definition of a laborer is someone with no or very little experience, no tools, etc. What I would call a skilled laborer is someone who has done the job for a while, has a set of tool bags and hand tools, but needs supervision. Typically they start at $12. From there it's just a negotiation. I may get a guy that's been a framing foreman for 5 years, but that's all he knows. Has never set cabinets, or done trim, etc. So he's good at one specific thing, but skills transfer but he still needs supervising for some things, but he has experience leading a crew too so he would be worth the $16 range. Then there is the true journeyman carpenter. He can set concrete forms, frame a deck, install cabinets, whatever it is he can do it. They are $20-$26. But few and far between. They are hired by companies already, and treated very well to keep them there.

So although I was paying above minimum already, I was because that's what the market said he was worth, not because the government said so. Now I have to start a yahoo with no experience $2 an hour more just because. Oh ya and for the first time, we are also required to give paid sick leave to every employee now too. Bumping the wage for the kid straight out of high school that doesn't even have his own car 2 bucks an hour over night is hard to swallow. But the bigger problem is the unprecedented speed at which it has happened. We are the first city in the country to raise minimum wage by 50% in a 6 month period. It's never happened before and a lot of businesses have shut the doors. And many more will be in July. Especially impacted are non profit charities, and the skilled nursing facilities. The skilled nursing facilities are paid by Medicare Medicade, and private insurance. They can't raise more income to cover labor as the price is set federally. So literally every skilled nursing facility, the program for mentally disabled people who live in kind of like a halfway house where they have help with day to day living, and many of our charities have stated they will be closing their doors in July and all the the patients they care for will be shipped to other cities.

It's not just the minimum wage jobs either. Obviously the people who get paid more are demanding a raise to maintain the wage gap between them and the unskilled workers.


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## JMHConstruction

Can you imagine $15/hr minimum wage? I wouldn't be able to match the pay gap. Customers don't care about it, all they see are dollar signs. Hell my cedar lumber has gone up about 30% this year because of some new tax from lumber from Canada. Hopefully everyone has realized that around here and my bids don't seem sky high compared to others. On the plus side of that, it's much easier to up sell composite. Hard to swallow paying the extra for cedar though, can't imagine doing for labor help when I have to baby sit them anyway.


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## ktfbgb

JMHConstruction said:


> Can you imagine $15/hr minimum wage? I wouldn't be able to match the pay gap. Customers don't care about it, all they see are dollar signs. Hell my cedar lumber has gone up about 30% this year because of some new tax from lumber from Canada. Hopefully everyone has realized that around here and my bids don't seem sky high compared to others. On the plus side of that, it's much easier to up sell composite. Hard to swallow paying the extra for cedar though, can't imagine doing for labor help when I have to baby sit them anyway.


Yes I can as ours rises ever year until 2021 when it is $15 for the minimum.


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## Maclawnco

You guys are advocating paying $10 an hour or whatever minimum wage for an entry position. Have you ever considered that your pay scale is not attracting the right applicants? Have you ever thought about how an individual would make ends meet at that pay rate?

Just like you market your business to new customers, you also have to market your business to employees as well. We're in the process of opening another branch for our lawn treatment business. Which means we're adding a ton of field staff literally right now and we're not having that hard of a time finding qualified applicants. Because we've taken the time to understand what our employees want and are presenting it to them in a way that is appealing.


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## ktfbgb

Maclawnco said:


> You guys are advocating paying $10 an hour or whatever minimum wage for an entry position. Have you ever considered that your pay scale is not attracting the right applicants? Have you ever thought about how an individual would make ends meet at that pay rate?
> 
> Just like you market your business to new customers, you also have to market your business to employees as well. We're in the process of opening another branch for our lawn treatment business. Which means we're adding a ton of field staff literally right now and we're not having that hard of a time finding qualified applicants. Because we've taken the time to understand what our employees want and are presenting it to them in a way that is appealing.


Sorry but an entry level, no skill required, laborer position is not meant to be a career. It is an entry level position, that as you gain experience, and therefore value to the employer, you make more. So yes my current 2 dollar above minimum wage entry level pay should be attracting good workers, when say CNA's at the hospital start at less of a wage than I pay to carry studs and sweep floors. So now that our minimum wage is raising 4 bucks per hour, does not mean that the quality of the worker is magically going to increase. It's still the same pool of people.

And to add to it, my pay scale is the same as everyone else's in my industry here. If you want to live here, and work in construction, we pretty much all pay the same. Take for example one of the larger concrete companies in town. He has 80 employees so that he can run 40 guys a day in the summer. He has to have that many because guys don't show up for a week at a time, or come in three hours late or whatever. It's a plague that we all have to deal with here and it doesn't matter if they are a $10 laborer, or $30 foreman. No one wants to work, and most are horrible employees.


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## JustJeff

I guess I couldn't live in AZ. 30.00 as a foreman just wouldn't cut it for me. Then again, I haven't been an employee for quite some time. But I guess I got spoiled when I was still an employee. Of course, I don't know what the cost of living difference between here an there is either, so my comment very well could have been out of my own ignorance. And, if you are as you say you are, paying a comparable wage to all of the other comparable businesses in your area are, I guess that's just your market. I'll tell you though, there's no way I'd ever wreck my body again the way I have for 20.00-25.00 an hour. As an employer, I've always paid quite a bit more than anything close to minimum wage, and usually even higher than comparable companies in my area. But I've had much higher demands as well, and am quick to get rid of someone when I'm paying what I feel is a premium wage for the job they're doing and not getting the results I expect. I'll go through 10-15 employees to fine one good one easily. Luckily, I don't have to have 30 or 50 employees, so I don't have to deal with it that often.


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## On a Call

Those guys that stand at the corner with the sign...

Will work for food


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## FredG

ktfbgb said:


> I'm not sure there are any good employees left. You gotta scalp them from other companies lol.


Snipping happens all the time. Not just with employee's jobs to.


LapeerLandscape said:


> I think good labor is going to get harder and harder to find. We have raised kids that either grow up and go to college for an office job or they are living in moms basement not working while mom raises the kids.


X2..Education is not always the answer. Both of my kids are working jobs that do not require a 4yr degree that they hold. Sometime the disabled,Vets, Mexican immigrates can save the day.


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## Maclawnco

ktfbgb said:


> Sorry but an entry level, no skill required, laborer position is not meant to be a career. It is an entry level position, that as you gain experience, and therefore value to the employer, you make more. So yes my current 2 dollar above minimum wage entry level pay should be attracting good workers, when say CNA's at the hospital start at less of a wage than I pay to carry studs and sweep floors. So now that our minimum wage is raising 4 bucks per hour, does not mean that the quality of the worker is magically going to increase. It's still the same pool of people.
> 
> And to add to it, my pay scale is the same as everyone else's in my industry here. If you want to live here, and work in construction, we pretty much all pay the same. Take for example one of the larger concrete companies in town. He has 80 employees so that he can run 40 guys a day in the summer. He has to have that many because guys don't show up for a week at a time, or come in three hours late or whatever. It's a plague that we all have to deal with here and it doesn't matter if they are a $10 laborer, or $30 foreman. No one wants to work, and most are horrible employees.


Remarkable. The man with no employees has it all figured out. Bravo!


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## JMHConstruction

Maclawnco said:


> Remarkable. The man with no employees has it all figured out. Bravo!


Pretty sure he's talking about his employees. Anyway, I 100% agree with him. We all started some where, and made it work. Now if I could double what I charge for labor and still get jobs, I'd have no problems paying a laborer more. Maybe I'm in the wrong field, but I'd be out of business if I did that because I wouldn't land a single job.


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## FredG

Ya, Just give them a annuity fund, Payed vacation, Retirement plan, Health insurance, 8 to 10 sick days a year, A Company vehicle along with a fuel allowance, New work boots when needed and a clothes allowance. Be sure there hands stay soft and don't have to get dirty. You employee problems will all go away.


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## FredG

Furthermore good luck competing, When they can be sent on there own and are showing a high earning level for your company this is when you think about taking care of them, Not out of the gate.


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## Maclawnco

All companies in a given area have access to literally the same pool of employees. How do some make it work and others don't? Hint: it's not the employees.


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## FredG

How do some work and others don't? Some have a strong work ethic, You know like the ones that grew up on a farm and there parents taught them to be productive citizens, Others grew up in the City's and never seen a hand tool or equipment and let there parents support them. It depends what you bring to the table to determine a fair wage.


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## JMHConstruction

Maclawn, out of curiosity what do you start a guy with no experience?


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## On a Call

For the first time I pulled up to a corner and watched a so called homeless guy counting his roll. Yes I mean a roll and he was not hiding it either. 

A quick guess I would say an easy $ 100.00 but it was more for sure and that is if it was all ones. I am sure many kind hearted souls had him a $ 20.

One of the reasons for min wage increase is more pay out in taxes. Remember as their wages increase so do what they pay. That way we can hand out more to the homeless. Makes sense, right ??


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## ktfbgb

Maclawnco said:


> All companies in a given area have access to literally the same pool of employees. How do some make it work and others don't? Hint: it's not the employees.


That's what I'm saying. All the companies in my area are struggling to find employees. We are all short staffed and behind. My example of of the concrete company having double the employees than actual positions is because no one wants to work. So ya it's not working for any of the companies in construction here because all the entitled little snowflakes want to get a big fat check for staying at home and sleeping.

I guess it might be pretty easy to find some guy that's smart enough to walk around with a backpack sprayer and spray lawns all day literally doing the same thing for hours on end day in and day out. Where the only thing they have to learn is how to open the fill cap on the sprayer and pour the stuff that the boss tell them to into the sprayer and then walk around. I'm talking about people who are actually willing to do a labor intensive job to learn construction all the way through to a guy who can actually read a set of plans, build it to spec, and pass a inspection. Start to finish laborer to journeyman is a whole lot different than spraying grass.

And ya I don't have any employees right now because it's seasonal just like everywhere else. I have shovel guys for snow removal but that's separate from the rest of the biz.


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## ktfbgb

JustJeff said:


> I guess I couldn't live in AZ. 30.00 as a foreman just wouldn't cut it for me. Then again, I haven't been an employee for quite some time. But I guess I got spoiled when I was still an employee. Of course, I don't know what the cost of living difference between here an there is either, so my comment very well could have been out of my own ignorance. And, if you are as you say you are, paying a comparable wage to all of the other comparable businesses in your area are, I guess that's just your market. I'll tell you though, there's no way I'd ever wreck my body again the way I have for 20.00-25.00 an hour. As an employer, I've always paid quite a bit more than anything close to minimum wage, and usually even higher than comparable companies in my area. But I've had much higher demands as well, and am quick to get rid of someone when I'm paying what I feel is a premium wage for the job they're doing and not getting the results I expect. I'll go through 10-15 employees to fine one good one easily. Luckily, I don't have to have 30 or 50 employees, so I don't have to deal with it that often.


I hear you on that. I too am quick to give raises based on the merit of the employee. If they are making me money I have no problem treating them good. The problem is arbitrary numbers shoved down your throats that you have to pay someone just to find out if they are an organizational fit for the company. I go through just as many to find a good one. Now it's going to cost a bunch more to go through the same number of people to find another good one. At least in my state we can still get rid of employees if they are bad. Hell even if you just don't like them. I feel for the states where owners have to pay a ton in wages and then are stuck with the guy because it's impossible to fire anyone without getting sued.


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## SnoFarmer

ktfbgb said:


> I hear you on that. I too am quick to give raises based on the merit of the employee.


no you're doint et wrong, you give raises based on the time they have worked for you not for merit,

Right Todd?


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## ktfbgb

SnoFarmer said:


> no you're doint et wrong, you give raises based on the time they have worked for you not for merit,
> 
> Right Todd?


Oh ya dang. I forgot!

Ok Maclawnco, here is the bigger issue. I'm glad that in your area and industry ther is an over abundance of qualified candidates to fill positions. For my sate, and from what I understand we are no different than most other states, there is a labor shortage bordering on an emergency scale. No one wants to work hard and learn a trade. At the state level they are holding open forums with contractors to try and figure out what to do about it. Because before all the minimum wage stuff went through it wasn't possible to fill all the trade positions that were open. We can't keep up with demand because there is no supply of new workers.

Answer this question for me Maclawnco, and starting wage is irrelevant really here. Could you handle a 50% pay increase across the board, company wide, immediately. Your contracts are signed for the year, you just did an expansion which was most likely a big capital outlay. Can you right now, today, without being able to increase your already signed contracts be able to pull that off. And then add on top of it a new mandatory paid benefit? Can you absorb that? Because that is what we are dealing with here.

Because if you can, I need to go to the Maclawnco school of business. And so do all the business here that are shutting down because of it. And like I said earlier it's not just the little guys like me. Assisted living/skilled nursing facilities with 150-200 full time patients, are closing the doors. These are places with lots of employees and executive officers that have masters degrees in business management and the like saying it's not possible, we have no choice than to close the doors.


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## FredG

It's not just Construction or similar, Traveling RN's are in high demand I know of at least 12 of them that just moved into a 3 county area according to my wife.


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## Defcon 5

SnoFarmer said:


> no you're doint et wrong, you give raises based on the time they have worked for you not for merit,
> 
> Right Todd?


You are wrong my friend...atleast the company I work for...That is why I let you spew your nonsense and just laugh at you..

We have evaluations every year...Our pay is based on that..

The main problem with the Lawn and Snow monkey business is their is a pay ceiling that is pretty low in the grand scheme of things...

Finding good employees is one thing...Retaining them is another..As the employee gets older and has a family and bills..The $15 an hour with no real future is gonna get him looking towards other industry's or trades..


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## JustJeff

ktfbgb said:


> Oh ya dang. I forgot!
> 
> Ok Maclawnco, here is the bigger issue. I'm glad that in your area and industry ther is an over abundance of qualified candidates to fill positions. For my sate, and from what I understand we are no different than most other states, there is a labor shortage bordering on an emergency scale. No one wants to work hard and learn a trade. At the state level they are holding open forums with contractors to try and figure out what to do about it. Because before all the minimum wage stuff went through it wasn't possible to fill all the trade positions that were open. We can't keep up with demand because there is no supply of new workers.
> 
> Answer this question for me Maclawnco, and starting wage is irrelevant really here. Could you handle a 50% pay increase across the board, company wide, immediately. Your contracts are signed for the year, you just did an expansion which was most likely a big capital outlay. Can you right now, today, without being able to increase your already signed contracts be able to pull that off. And then add on top of it a new mandatory paid benefit? Can you absorb that? Because that is what we are dealing with here.
> 
> Because if you can, I need to go to the Maclawnco school of business. And so do all the business here that are shutting down because of it. And like I said earlier it's not just the little guys like me. Assisted living/skilled nursing facilities with 150-200 full time patients, are closing the doors. These are places with lots of employees and executive officers that have masters degrees in business management and the like saying it's not possible, we have no choice than to close the doors.


I generally agree with what you say. You are in the carpentry/building business, correct? If so, you can't honestly say that you've already signed all of your contracts for the rest of the year. That's impossible to do in construction, as the cost of materials changes quarterly, if not daily. My bids have always only been good for 90 days.


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## ktfbgb

JustJeff said:


> I generally agree with what you say. You are in the carpentry/building business, correct? If so, you can't honestly say that you've already signed all of your contracts for the rest of the year. That's impossible to do in construction, as the cost of materials changes quarterly, if not daily. My bids have always only been good for 90 days.


Correct. But that is how Mclawnco operates. I only have contracts at this early part of the season for the next 2 months.


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## JustJeff

Okay, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. I also failed to mention in my earlier post, when we were talking about wages. The "good wages" that I believe I pay, is only in "skilled positions", not snow removal. I only have one employee for snow removal, and all he does is sidewalks. I got rid of most of my jobs that require sidewalk work, but I do still have one. It's about 1-1/2 hours to shovel and salt. I've got a guy that I pay 16.00 an hour for that one sidewalk. And even then, I pay him for five hours minimum even if he only does that one sidewalk. I usually keep him in the truck with me afterwards for some snows just so he can shovel in front of fire hydrants or some other small stuff like that. But, even though he only gets paid 16.00 per hour, he has a five hour minimum even if he only works for that hour and a half, and I always feed and caffinate him. And he's also got a 500.00 dollar bonus coming in April for not missing any events, assuming that he doesn't miss any work between now and then. And he's been great so far this year. Hasn't complained about long hours earlier in the year when I had a lot more sidewalk work, and he shows up on time every time.


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## ktfbgb

JustJeff said:


> Okay, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. I also failed to mention in my earlier post, when we were talking about wages. The "good wages" that I believe I pay, is only in "skilled positions", not snow removal. I only have one employee for snow removal, and all he does is sidewalks. I got rid of most of my jobs that require sidewalk work, but I do still have one. It's about 1-1/2 hours to shovel and salt. I've got a guy that I pay 16.00 an hour for that one sidewalk. And even then, I pay him for five hours minimum even if he only does that one sidewalk. I usually keep him in the truck with me afterwards for some snows just so he can shovel in front of fire hydrants or some other small stuff like that. But, even though he only gets paid 16.00 per hour, he has a five hour minimum even if he only works for that hour and a half, and I always feed and caffinate him. And he's also got a 500.00 dollar bonus coming in April for not missing any events, assuming that he doesn't miss any work between now and then. And he's been great so far this year. Hasn't complained about long hours earlier in the year when I had a lot more sidewalk work, and he shows up on time every time.


a bonus for not missing any storms. I may have to try that for shovelers.


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## JustJeff

It's worked great for me so far this year. Either that, or the kid (not actually a kid, he's in his 30's) just has integrity. I'm going to take on more sidewalk work next year as I just bought the sidewalk machine listed in my sig. He's going to run the machine, and keep an eye on at least one more shoveler that I'm going to hire for next year, for a few bucks more per hour.


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## Maclawnco

ktfbgb said:


> Ok Maclawnco, here is the bigger issue. I'm glad that in your area and industry ther is an over abundance of qualified candidates to fill positions. For my sate, and from what I understand we are no different than most other states, there is a labor shortage bordering on an emergency scale. No one wants to work hard and learn a trade. At the state level they are holding open forums with contractors to try and figure out what to do about it. Because before all the minimum wage stuff went through it wasn't possible to fill all the trade positions that were open. We can't keep up with demand because there is no supply of new workers.


It's not that we have an abundance of qualified applicants. We're making lemonade out of lemons. Choose the best of who wants to work, give them above average earning potential, and train them for our positions. You're never ever going to find the perfect candidate. So work with what you get. 


ktfbgb said:


> Answer this question for me Maclawnco, and starting wage is irrelevant really here. Could you handle a 50% pay increase across the board, company wide, immediately. Your contracts are signed for the year, you just did an expansion which was most likely a big capital outlay. Can you right now, today, without being able to increase your already signed contracts be able to pull that off. And then add on top of it a new mandatory paid benefit? Can you absorb that? Because that is what we are dealing with here.


Your proposition is just silly. Just because minimum wage increases 50% doesn't translate to an immediate 50% increase across the board. Besides, we pay well above the numbers you're throwing around so it truly doesn't even matter. Our lawn applicators make 35-40k a year, get 11 weeks paid vacation, 401k, etc. Give them a good gig they don't need to move beyond and voila, you're a choice employer. My managers, even more. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Not hard to grasp.


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## Defcon 5

Maclawnco said:


> It's not that we have an abundance of qualified applicants. We're making lemonade out of lemons. Choose the best of who wants to work, give them above average earning potential, and train them for our positions. You're never ever going to find the perfect
> 
> candidate. So work with what you get.
> 
> Your proposition is just silly. Just because
> 
> minimum wage increases 50% doesn't translate to an immediate 50% increase across the board. Besides, we pay well above the numbers you're throwing around so it truly doesn't even matter. Our lawn applicators make 35-40k a year, get
> 
> 11 weeks paid vacation, 401k, etc. Give them a good gig they don't need to move beyond and voila, you're a choice employer. My managers,
> 
> even more. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Not hard to grasp.


Bravo...This is a guy with a clue and a plan..I applauded you...I'm gonna retire in 4 years I will be 55...I was gonna go work for Oomkes..More for the entertainment factor than the money....But..On second thought can you send me an application...Lol


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## ktfbgb

Maclawnco said:


> It's not that we have an abundance of qualified applicants. We're making lemonade out of lemons. Choose the best of who wants to work, give them above average earning potential, and train them for our positions. You're never ever going to find the perfect candidate. So work with what you get.
> 
> Your proposition is just silly. Just because minimum wage increases 50% doesn't translate to an immediate 50% increase across the board. Besides, we pay well above the numbers you're throwing around so it truly doesn't even matter. Our lawn applicators make 35-40k a year, get 11 weeks paid vacation, 401k, etc. Give them a good gig they don't need to move beyond and voila, you're a choice employer. My managers, even more. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Not hard to grasp.


every person that is currently employed anywhere in the area is demanding a raise to maintain the wage gap. Currently there are a lot of people that have been with companies for years that will now make less than the new hire being paid minimum wage. In my case A carpenter that used to make $16 per hour is not ok with a no skill laborer making $3 per hour less.

It does not just effect entry level, its across the board. They are demanding that they keep the current wage gap.

This is proven out by all the companies shutting down because of it, and now none of those people have jobs.


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## JMHConstruction

Lol people must pay a pretty penny for their lawn mowing where you're from. Guys get $8 here to ride the mower around here.


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## JMHConstruction

Defcon 5 said:


> Bravo...This is a guy with a clue and a plan..I applauded you...I'm gonna retire in 4 years I will be 55...I was gonna go work for Oomkes..More for the entertainment factor than the money....But..On second thought can you send me an application...Lol


Start a lawn care Union?


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## JMHConstruction

Maclawn, I am not trying to start some online battle with you, just merely interested in how you afford that. I can have as many people tell me to charge what you need to and not what you think the competition is charging, and that to pay employees more just charge more. Fact is though around here people usually get 2-3 bids just to meet with the different companies and see how they like each one. I learned to not even deal with the ones shopping for a deal, but even the ones who don't really shop based on price will still turn me down because I am way overpriced from the other competitors. Maybe it's because I am so small, but there is no way in hell I could afford to pay even myself 11 weeks vacation. That is insane. I just don't have the wiggle room in my overhead. Even if I ran multiple crews, the added labor expenses would take up any profit margin if I payed my laborers 45k with benifits and vacation. I treat my guys right the best I can. With that aside, it doesn't change their attitude of work ethic. Some guys I've hired seem great in the interview, but get them to the job site and it wouldn't matter if paid $100 an hour or $10, they still would do the bare minimum and have no interest in furthering themselves in life. I actually did an interview for a laborer a few weeks back who was 37 and WANTED the laborer position because he said he liked not having to think a lot and enjoyed just doing the little things. He told me this in an interview, where he was trying to impress me. These are the kinds of guys we get. Had a guy in his resume last year tell me he needed 75k with paid benifits to consider the open carpenter position I had. I just can't do it. If others can good for them, but here we just can't. Most small business around my area don't even offer benifits. I give my helper vacation, but no benifits. It is what it is. I'm sure if I could off what you mentioned I would get better help, but I'd be out of business within the year, because I wouldn't make any profit.

Even with snow removal, my sidewalks guys make around $25/hr + depending on how fast they get the route done, and I write a check after the storm and they can pick it up the next day. I still get guys quitting in the middle of the season, even the middle of storms. You just don't see the work ethic like you did even 5 years ago.


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## JMHConstruction

^^ wow didn't realize how long that was, my apologies


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## Maclawnco

JMHConstruction said:


> Maclawn, I am not trying to start some online battle with you, just merely interested in how you afford that. I can have as many people tell me to charge what you need to and not what you think the competition is charging, and that to pay employees more just charge more. Fact is though around here people usually get 2-3 bids just to meet with the different companies and see how they like each one. I learned to not even deal with the ones shopping for a deal, but even the ones who don't really shop based on price will still turn me down because I am way overpriced from the other competitors. Maybe it's because I am so small, but there is no way in hell I could afford to pay even myself 11 weeks vacation. That is insane. I just don't have the wiggle room in my overhead. Even if I ran multiple crews, the added labor expenses would take up any profit margin if I payed my laborers 45k with benifits and vacation. I treat my guys right the best I can. With that aside, it doesn't change their attitude of work ethic. Some guys I've hired seem great in the interview, but get them to the job site and it wouldn't matter if paid $100 an hour or $10, they still would do the bare minimum and have no interest in furthering themselves in life. I actually did an interview for a laborer a few weeks back who was 37 and WANTED the laborer position because he said he liked not having to think a lot and enjoyed just doing the little things. He told me this in an interview, where he was trying to impress me. These are the kinds of guys we get. Had a guy in his resume last year tell me he needed 75k with paid benifits to consider the open carpenter position I had. I just can't do it. If others can good for them, but here we just can't. Most small business around my area don't even offer benifits. I give my helper vacation, but no benifits. It is what it is. I'm sure if I could off what you mentioned I would get better help, but I'd be out of business within the year, because I wouldn't make any profit.
> 
> Even with snow removal, my sidewalks guys make around $25/hr + depending on how fast they get the route done, and I write a check after the storm and they can pick it up the next day. I still get guys quitting in the middle of the season, even the middle of storms. You just don't see the work ethic like you did even 5 years ago.


hiring is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do. We used to take anyone who wanted to work. It didn't work well.

We have since identified 5 company core values that drive all our employment decisions - raises, firing, hiring, etc. If they match our culture, they're in. If not, they dont make it in.

https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get...8&qid=1487286260&sr=8-1&keywords=eos+traction
Buy this book. Read it, Read it again. Work the processes. Win. 4 simple steps to being awesome.


----------



## Defcon 5

JMHConstruction said:


> Start a lawn care Union?


Maybe there should be...


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Defcon 5 said:


> Maybe there should be...


Maybe you should get that book and have your daughter read it to you before you go down and apply for a job with Mac.


----------



## Defcon 5

LapeerLandscape said:


> Maybe you should get that book and have your daughter read it to you before you go down and apply for a job with Mac.


Don't worry about me Grandpa....You just worry about getting out of bed in the morning...


----------



## Defcon 5

LapeerLandscape said:


> Maybe you should get that book and have your daughter read it to you before you go down and apply for a job with Mac.


Have it..Had her read it to me everynight before her bedtime...


----------



## Philbilly2

I think a lot of what is being missed here is the industry you are in will only allow you to pay your employees what your industry will allow you to charge for said work.


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## Philbilly2

And you guys would fall out of bed if I told you what my union moneys get paid... 

The thing is, the market that I choose to take work in allows me to be able to pay them the money they get.


----------



## ktfbgb

Maclawnco said:


> hiring is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do. We used to take anyone who wanted to work. It didn't work well.
> 
> We have since identified 5 company core values that drive all our employment decisions - raises, firing, hiring, etc. If they match our culture, they're in. If not, they dont make it in.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get...8&qid=1487286260&sr=8-1&keywords=eos+traction
> Buy this book. Read it, Read it again. Work the processes. Win. 4 simple steps to being awesome.


That book was actually in my Que.



Philbilly2 said:


> I think a lot of what is being missed here is the industry you are in will only allow you to pay your employees what your industry will allow you to charge for said work.


Exactly. My whole point is how fast the minimum wage is increasing. 50% in 6 months, 25% over night. And anyone who says that the minimum wage does not effect wages across the board and the expectation that there be a wage gap for acquired skills is full of it.


----------



## Philbilly2

Maclawnco said:


> Our lawn applicators make 35-40k a year, get 11 weeks paid vacation, 401k, etc. Give them a good gig they don't need to move beyond and voila, you're a choice employer. My managers, even more. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Not hard to grasp.


When Todd doesn't work out, let me know. I'm next in line. 11 weeks??? WOW!


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## ktfbgb

Philbilly2 said:


> And you guys would fall out of bed if I told you what my union moneys get paid...
> 
> The thing is, the market that I choose to take work in allows me to be able to pay them the money they get.


right again. The prevailing wage here is what it is. Its not like I'm trying to pay less than everyone else and expect to get good candidates. When they fill out the expected wage on the application, its usually within 25 cents per hour of what I pay. And if I want the person 25 cents is nothing and I give it to them. Point is Im paying what they expect to get payed.


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## Philbilly2

ktfbgb said:


> right again. The prevailing wage here is what it is. Its not like I'm trying to pay less than everyone else and expect to get good candidates. When they fill out the expected wage on the application, its usually within 25 cents per hour of what I pay. And if I want the person 25 cents is nothing and I give it to them. Point is Im paying what they expect to get payed.


Have to tried starting them a bit over and telling them that you will have a performance review shortly after? You would be amazed how much more effort will be applied for a buck or two.


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## Defcon 5

Philbilly2 said:


> When Todd doesn't work out, let me know. I'm next in line. 11 weeks??? WOW!


I'm bound to show up drunk one day and get fired...So..Wait by the phone


----------



## Philbilly2

ktfbgb said:


> That book was actually in my Que.
> 
> Exactly. My whole point is how fast the minimum wage is increasing. 50% in 6 months, 25% over night. And anyone who says that the minimum wage does not effect wages across the board and the expectation that there be a wage gap for acquired skills is full of it.


I don't mean to be a hole here, but we are not buying a new truck anymore for $500 from a Sears catalog... but that is evolution right?

As long as everyone has to raise rates to keep up with rising min wage, the playing field should be equally as level. No?


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## Philbilly2

Defcon 5 said:


> I'm bound to show up drunk one day and get fired...So..Wait by the phone


One day?????? or just get caught on that day???


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## JMHConstruction

I'm young, so keep that time line in mind here. What I don't understand is why all of a sudden everyone expects more. Maybe this is all because of how I was raised, but money was a given after work and not just handed out. When I was 16 I was given the choice to either not work and have nothing, or get a job and get a car and pay for everything my self. Everything had to be under my parents, but I got a retail job making minimum wage (I think $7?) And got my first POS car and paid the bills for it. I was able to get a cellphone and pay that too. I was always expect to pay for things if I wanted them.

Once I got out of high school I knew that I had no interest in going to school (wish I did), but knew that I didn't want to make minimum wage anymore and needed a career. I started as a laborer for a framing crew making $9/hr and was excited about the pay raise. I worked my ass off knowing I wanted to be that guy up building the walls, throwing the sheathing up, and being proud of what we built. 

Unfortunately the guy I worked for went out of business in 2008 because the housing market came to a halt. No one was hiring, and instead of living off the government I applied EVERYWHERE! I finally found the deck company I worked for until I left on my own. I again started at the bottom making 9 bucks, but would haul ass bring lumber around and would try and help anywhere I could. After a while I was worth more as a carpenter than carrying lumber. Then because of my work ethic (I have missed one day of work since I was 16) I was quickly thrown into a foreman position to start another crew.

I did that for a little while, but I still wanted more. Instead of whining, I started doing side jobs. I found out I can't make more on the weekends than my full time job and went for it. Then I found out running a business is nothing like doing side work lol.

Moral of my long, drawn out, sitting outside bored out of my mind story is, no one wants to work for what they want anymore. They all just expect it. If it's hard, they quit to find something easier, but then complain because they don't make $15 an hour to flip a burger or use a cash register. I don't know when the world got so soft, but it seemed like it was over night.


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## JMHConstruction

2 long posts that no one really wants to take the time to read in one night. I'm on a roll Thumbs Up


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## JustJeff

I read both of them start to finish.


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## ktfbgb

Philbilly2 said:


> I don't mean to be a hole here, but we are not buying a new truck anymore for $500 from a Sears catalog... but that is evolution right?
> 
> As long as everyone has to raise rates to keep up with rising min wage, the playing field should be equally as level. No?


Your not being a hole lol. As long as everyone I'm competing is legal and licensed and playing by the rules then yes. But you know how it is. We compete will illegal businesses all the time. There will be more now to compete with. A 50% increAse in pay this year will take time to even out across the board. They rate goes up every year till 2015 when it hits $15 per hour. After that every year after it is adjusted according to the consumer index. So with this new law 50% raise in wages after 6 months. In 4 years almost 100% raise from last years wage. Then it goes up every year forever. Unless a new a law is passed next election cycle. We tried to get a special election approved to crush the compounding effect of the state and local combined. We got double the signatures needed but the city refused to grant the special election. What we proposed was follow the new state minimum wage increases until 2021 and then 50 cents per hour higher than state every year after that. The new law compounds because the city law says $2 per hour over state minimum. So now instead of being nice and trying to find a happy medium between both sides for the next general election we are proposing a bill to completely repeal it. There is also talk at the state level to introduce a bill that would make it against the state constitution to raise minimum wage in a specific city over the state minimum.


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## JMHConstruction

Honestly after thinking about it, it is what it is. In my area I pay equal to or more than others for the same position. I will probably need to hire someone to help out since we're backed up because licence issues with the cities and now waiting on permits I assume it's because of the nice weather, but I've been swamped with bids and need another guy or two in the field while I'm doing that. I have a few things in mind I'm going to look for, and I'll see what happens.

As for snow help, we're pretty much done for the season. We do it because we're crazy, but honestly the job sucks. Need to find employees as crazy as we are that like being in the snow. Guys who figure they would be in it anyway doing driveways with a shovel, might as well have a guaranteed thing. They're hard to find, and I haven't found many yet. When you do find them, pay them good and pay them fast.

Good luck fellas finding the good ones.


----------



## Philbilly2

ktfbgb said:


> Your not being a hole lol. As long as everyone I'm competing is legal and licensed and playing by the rules then yes. But you know how it is. We compete will illegal businesses all the time. There will be more now to compete with. A 50% increAse in pay this year will take time to even out across the board. They rate goes up every year till 2015 when it hits $15 per hour. After that every year after it is adjusted according to the consumer index. So with this new law 50% raise in wages after 6 months. In 4 years almost 100% raise from last years wage. Then it goes up every year forever. Unless a new a law is passed next election cycle. We tried to get a special election approved to crush the compounding effect of the state and local combined. We got double the signatures needed but the city refused to grant the special election. What we proposed was follow the new state minimum wage increases until 2021 and then 50 cents per hour higher than state every year after that. The new law compounds because the city law says $2 per hour over state minimum. So now instead of being nice and trying to find a happy medium between both sides for the next general election we are proposing a bill to completely repeal it. There is also talk at the state level to introduce a bill that would make it against the state constitution to raise minimum wage in a specific city over the state minimum.


Oh I get it. My guys get a raise every year no matter what the minimum wage does. Some years only a dollar, some years as much as 5. It is what the union reps and the contractor board negotiations can agree on.

Some years the raise is able to be pushed on to the customer... there were also a few years that I absorbed in house as the market would not sustain an increase. As long as you averaged out to where you are not in the red at the end of each week or month, you were doing ok.


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## FredG

I got news for you guys, Union wages and the Davis bacon act will not guarantee good help, If you interview a person and you both agree at $15.00ph (example) the guy should work hard because he agreed to it. If he does not think it is enough he should walk away and not take the job. I seen plenty of union guys get laid off because of there performance at $50.00ph or more depending on your trade. Yes a lot more union guys will work hard and stick with it because of the pension and benefit package and you can actually make a career out of it and collect a nice pension after 25yrs of service. 

If you hire a slug that don't want to work they will not work period.


----------



## Philbilly2

JMHConstruction said:


> I'm young, so keep that time line in mind here. What I don't understand is why all of a sudden everyone expects more. Maybe this is all because of how I was raised, but money was a given after work and not just handed out. When I was 16 I was given the choice to either not work and have nothing, or get a job and get a car and pay for everything my self. Everything had to be under my parents, but I got a retail job making minimum wage (I think $7?) And got my first POS car and paid the bills for it. I was able to get a cellphone and pay that too. I was always expect to pay for things if I wanted them.
> 
> Once I got out of high school I knew that I had no interest in going to school (wish I did), but knew that I didn't want to make minimum wage anymore and needed a career. I started as a laborer for a framing crew making $9/hr and was excited about the pay raise. I worked my ass off knowing I wanted to be that guy up building the walls, throwing the sheathing up, and being proud of what we built.
> 
> Unfortunately the guy I worked for went out of business in 2008 because the housing market came to a halt. No one was hiring, and instead of living off the government I applied EVERYWHERE! I finally found the deck company I worked for until I left on my own. I again started at the bottom making 9 bucks, but would haul ass bring lumber around and would try and help anywhere I could. After a while I was worth more as a carpenter than carrying lumber. Then because of my work ethic (I have missed one day of work since I was 16) I was quickly thrown into a foreman position to start another crew.
> 
> I did that for a little while, but I still wanted more. Instead of whining, I started doing side jobs. I found out I can't make more on the weekends than my full time job and went for it. Then I found out running a business is nothing like doing side work lol.
> 
> Moral of my long, drawn out, sitting outside bored out of my mind story is, no one wants to work for what they want anymore. They all just expect it. If it's hard, they quit to find something easier, but then complain because they don't make $15 an hour to flip a burger or use a cash register. I don't know when the world got so soft, but it seemed like it was over night.


Let me start off by totally agreeing with the softness thing. I tell my wife almost every night that she is creating a world full of p***ys. She says she can only work with the template that their parents send them to school with...

First off kudos to you sir. Our story's are almost one in the same. But...

Let me add a bit to mine and maybe it will help with the reason good employees are retained?

Once out of high school I was in trade school some nights, working my full time gig as a plumbing apprentice, and farming the other nights and weekends.

I was not a fan of working plumbing at all. Except the union pay and benifits. I would have been much happy with being a farm hand if I could make the money I so desired to. Turns out, tried working for a cattle farmer, then a dairy operation, then a grain farmer w/ no livestock and guess what all jobs were minimum wage with VERY little room for monitory movement. So, if this was the nature of how this job was going to pay, why stick around? As hard as I killed myself I still made the same minimum wage dollars.

Now here is the part about retaining good employees. My old plumbing boss (at this point I was working for the cattle operation) stopped me one day and asked me why I was killing myself working as much as I did. Told him I had bills to pay and a house to keep. He saw my potential and work ethic and asked me how much I needed to quit the farming and focus more on my career. I told him it was not all about the money and that I enjoyed the farming.

That guy still put me at the next year tier on the apprentice pay scale the remainder of my time at that shop. He took care of me and I killed myself every day for that guy.


----------



## Philbilly2

FredG said:


> I got news for you guys, Union wages and the Davis bacon act will not guarantee good help, If you interview a person and you both agree at $15.00ph (example) the guy should work hard because he agreed to it. If he does not think it is enough he should walk away and not take the job. I seen plenty of union guys get laid off because of there performance at $50.00ph or more depending on your trade.
> 
> If you hire a slug that don't want to work they will not work period.


Nail on the head Fred.


----------



## ktfbgb

I want everyone to understand that my propblem is not with paying good for good help. My problem is with government mandated wages that do nothing but encourage the horrible workers to remain horrible. 

I had a typo above that may be confusing so I'll clear it up. I think it's important because even though we are a small town we are the first in the country to be hit with a minimum wage increase of this scale. It's never been done before.

Last year state mainimum wage was $8.05 per hour. In November 2016 during the general election a proposition was voted on and passed, barely, to make the minimum wage $10.00 per hour hour starting January 1 this year. Included in the bill was a provision that made paid sick time mandatory for every business no matter how small. The minimum wage increases every year on the state level until 2021 when it hits $12 per hour. After that the wage is adjusted every year according to the CPI.

It's Arizona and nobody expected the bill to pass. So City of flagstaff also put up a proposition that said wages in flagstaff must be $2 per hour higher than the state minimum. The prop was written so that any employee working within the city limits more than 15 hours on an annual basis, must be paid the wage. They did this to prevent companies from moving their headquarters into the county to avoid paying the city wage. Also any out of state company must adhere to it as well. City, county, state, and federal government employees are exempt from the minimum wage rule. So the largest employer in the city, the University, and then all the other gov. Jobs only have to pay state minimum wage. On top of that, since I live in the county, and my home is my office, I not allowed to vote since I don't live in the city limits. Even though 90% of my business in inside the city limits. 

So Jan 1 $2 per hour raise, then July 1 another $2 per hour raise. That's a 50% increase in 6 months. That's never been tried before. Then in 2021 when the two laws max out its $15 per hour which is almost a 100% wage increase in 4 years.

I never had any employees on minimum wage. My lowest rate was $2 per hour above. So in theory that same job is going to want to maintain $2 per hour above minimum wage. Plus, every other employee wants to keep the current pay gap. So my carpenters who were making $16 per hour hour, $6 per hour more than a laborer, want to keep the $6 per hour gap. 

I'm not against paying good for good help. But, we don't have any good help here. I'm being forced to pay a bunch more to go through 10-15 guys to find a good one. I don't believe that the government should dictate pay, the employee and employer should be able to negotiate a pay scale. Yes we will be able to just charge more, to a certain point, but it's gong to take a few years for everything to even out and smooth over. People aren't going to react well from say a plumber charging $85 per hour now, to paying $100 per hour in July. It takes time and while that process is happening a lot of people have already or will be loosing their jobs.


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## SnoFarmer

shovel monkeys wanted. call any cb snow contractor.
starting pay $20. includes opportunities/perk for lift tickets..


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## Mark Oomkes

SnoFarmer said:


> shovel monkeys wanted. call any cb snow contractor.
> starting pay $20. includes opportunities/perk for lift tickets..
> 
> View attachment 170847


Never would have guessed those colors for your house Sno.


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## ktfbgb

Lol


----------



## Mark Oomkes

ktfbgb said:


> I want everyone to understand that my propblem is not with paying good for good help. My problem is with government mandated wages that do nothing but encourage the horrible workers to remain horrible.
> 
> I had a typo above that may be confusing so I'll clear it up. I think it's important because even though we are a small town we are the first in the country to be hit with a minimum wage increase of this scale. It's never been done before.
> 
> Last year state mainimum wage was $8.05 per hour. In November 2016 during the general election a proposition was voted on and passed, barely, to make the minimum wage $10.00 per hour hour starting January 1 this year. Included in the bill was a provision that made paid sick time mandatory for every business no matter how small. The minimum wage increases every year on the state level until 2021 when it hits $12 per hour. After that the wage is adjusted every year according to the CPI.
> 
> It's Arizona and nobody expected the bill to pass. So City of flagstaff also put up a proposition that said wages in flagstaff must be $2 per hour higher than the state minimum. The prop was written so that any employee working within the city limits more than 15 hours on an annual basis, must be paid the wage. They did this to prevent companies from moving their headquarters into the county to avoid paying the city wage. Also any out of state company must adhere to it as well. City, county, state, and federal government employees are exempt from the minimum wage rule. So the largest employer in the city, the University, and then all the other gov. Jobs only have to pay state minimum wage. On top of that, since I live in the county, and my home is my office, I not allowed to vote since I don't live in the city limits. Even though 90% of my business in inside the city limits.
> 
> So Jan 1 $2 per hour raise, then July 1 another $2 per hour raise. That's a 50% increase in 6 months. That's never been tried before. Then in 2021 when the two laws max out its $15 per hour which is almost a 100% wage increase in 4 years.
> 
> I never had any employees on minimum wage. My lowest rate was $2 per hour above. So in theory that same job is going to want to maintain $2 per hour above minimum wage. Plus, every other employee wants to keep the current pay gap. So my carpenters who were making $16 per hour hour, $6 per hour more than a laborer, want to keep the $6 per hour gap.
> 
> I'm not against paying good for good help. But, we don't have any good help here. I'm being forced to pay a bunch more to go through 10-15 guys to find a good one. I don't believe that the government should dictate pay, the employee and employer should be able to negotiate a pay scale. Yes we will be able to just charge more, to a certain point, but it's gong to take a few years for everything to even out and smooth over. People aren't going to react well from say a plumber charging $85 per hour now, to paying $100 per hour in July. It takes time and while that process is happening a lot of people have already or will be loosing their jobs.


How did you end up with so many progressive communists in Flagstaff?


----------



## Philbilly2

ktfbgb said:


> I'm not against paying good for good help. But, we don't have any good help here. I'm being forced to pay a bunch more to go through 10-15 guys to find a good one. I don't believe that the government should dictate pay, the employee and employer should be able to negotiate a pay scale. Yes we will be able to just charge more, to a certain point, but it's gong to take a few years for everything to even out and smooth over. People aren't going to react well from say a plumber charging $85 per hour now, to paying $100 per hour in July.


If it makes you feel any better, in the summer months when we man up for school work, I have to do the same thing threw the union hall. We go threw manpower like toilet paper until you get someone that works and works well. 
I shake my head about the amount of "layoff is payoff" runs in payroll during the start of the summer as my foreman call with I need these certain guys checks by 1pm today so I can give them their walkin papers...

Worst part is my employee's package is at $80 an hour... weather they are a good employee or a hall rat... So you have to figure out the good ones as fast as you can and send the bottom sucker bums on down the road before they get enough time in to file on your unemployment


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## ktfbgb

Mark Oomkes said:


> How did you end up with so many progressive communists in Flagstaff?


The university.....


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## leolkfrm

I have a tough time find a good employer!....got a good one again, 10 weeks of steady work, 10 weeks of intermittent work, the rest is unpaid vacation...oh and with some else on call forlowblue:


----------



## JMHConstruction

Talked to a guy at home depot today. He stopped me after seeing me buying some extra 2x10 and asked if I was building a deck. Apparently he started a deck company in December. Odd time to start a business that relies on weather, but whatever. We got to talking and he ended asking about employees. He has already burned through 6 guys. Some of it was lack of work, but he said he stayed fairly busy. I gave him my card incase he ever needed anything, or ran into a job that was just more than he wanted to handle. Now I don't know anything about this guy, and "fairly busy" can mean a lot of things to different people, but it blew me away that he had gone through that many people in 2-3 months. I was kind of in a hurry and didn't talk long, but on the drive to the job site I was thinking about it. Now I have problems with guys, but no where near 6 guys every 2-3 months. I wish I would have got a little more information. Only thing I can think of is he has too many employees for a small start up company and he has too much down time for them or he's just a terrible boss. Made me think I had it easy, and took my helper out to lunch. Thumbs Up

Have an interview tomorrow with a guy who's resume is too good. We'll see what happens.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Mark Oomkes said:


> Never would have guessed those colors for your house Sno.


I didnt know Sno was an elf.


----------



## SnoFarmer

LapeerLandscape said:


> I didnt know Sno was an elf.


Belive et or not.
That house is n a historical district ,
All of the colors on that house have to be approved first.

Actually, I do wish that I owned it,

Color aside .


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## Avalanche 2500

JMH, Even though your a chiefs fan, I've been there W/ hiring sweet talkers. Not that you do no already know this but make sure they have transportation to and from work or that they have a valid license/SS #/ bring a lunch/ coffee etc. and not to mention that having your own tools is a plus. I have had some past employees that were also to good to be true. Beware + good luck!


----------



## LapeerLandscape

SnoFarmer said:


> Belive et or not.
> That house is n a historical district ,
> All of the colors on that house have to be approved first.
> 
> Actually, I do wish that I owned it,
> 
> Color aside .


It does look pretty cool...Thumbs Up


----------



## JMHConstruction

Avalanche 2500 said:


> JMH, Even though your a chiefs fan, I've been there W/ hiring sweet talkers. Not that you do no already know this but make sure they have transportation to and from work or that they have a valid license/SS #/ bring a lunch/ coffee etc. and not to mention that having your own tools is a plus. I have had some past employees that were also to good to be true. Beware + good luck!


Thanks. I bet half the guys I interview don't have a vehicle and/or a DL. Don't don't put up with drama, require everyone to show up with hand tools (I supply the expensive stuff), we take an hour lunch so they can get their business done on their time. Unfortunately Obamacare has forced me to drop the insurance because it's so ridiculously priced now. After a year I give a weeks vacation, more after 3. Only my main helper gets it and he usually asks me to put it on his last check of the year when I lay him off until it snows. If I could make clones of him, I'd be a millionaire.

As far as the guy tomorrow, I'm sure he's one of those guys who has BSed his resume and is a "fake it 'til you make it" kind of guy. We'll see though, gotta talk to the guy first. On the phone he seemed a little in to him self. Might be his way of selling himself over the phone though.


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## JMHConstruction

As a side note, how are you guys putting up help wanted ads? I usually use CL, but interested what else is out there. I used one of those big sites in the past (career builder maybe?) and for the insane price, I didn't see much return and didn't sign up again after the 30 days.


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## LapeerLandscape

JMHConstruction said:


> Thanks. I bet half the guys I interview don't have a vehicle and/or a DL. Don't don't put up with drama, require everyone to show up with hand tools (I supply the expensive stuff), we take an hour lunch so they can get their business done on their time. Unfortunately Obamacare has forced me to drop the insurance because it's so ridiculously priced now. After a year I give a weeks vacation, more after 3. Only my main helper gets it and he usually asks me to put it on his last check of the year when I lay him off until it snows. If I could make clones of him, I'd be a millionaire.
> 
> As far as the guy tomorrow, I'm sure he's one of those guys who has BSed his resume and is a "fake it 'til you make it" kind of guy. We'll see though, gotta talk to the guy first. On the phone he seemed a little in to him self. Might be his way of selling himself over the phone though.


Them guys that like to talk too much drive me crazy. While they are talking you are losing not only their production but the guy or guys that he's talking to also...


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## ktfbgb

JMHConstruction said:


> As a side note, how are you guys putting up help wanted ads? I usually use CL, but interested what else is out there. I used one of those big sites in the past (career builder maybe?) and for the insane price, I didn't see much return and didn't sign up again after the 30 days.


I use Craig's list. It's crappy but no one gets a paper anymore, and I've asked guys I've interviewed about the job finding sites. Most of them have no idea what they are or if they do know about them they say they don't use them. Some of the bigger companies put out signs saying they are hiring at different intersections. I've never tried it.


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## BUFF

Try Indeed.
https://www.indeed.com/resumes?q=&l=


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## ktfbgb

BUFF said:


> Try Indeed.
> https://www.indeed.com/resumes?q=&l=


Thanks! Wish I would have know about this a couple years ago. Guess I've been living under a rock:hammerhead: spend two minutes on it and there's at least a dozen guys worth emailing.


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## leolkfrm

didnt know that one existed, better than cl


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## FredG

LapeerLandscape said:


> Them guys that like to talk too much drive me crazy. While they are talking you are losing not only their production but the guy or guys that he's talking to also...


Bingo!


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## BUFF

leolkfrm said:


> didnt know that one existed, better than cl


 I figure if someone is going to post their resume for a specific job they're not just looking for any job unlike CL and there's a better chance of getting quality help.


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