# Local Property Management Companies providing services



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Maybe I'm just naive, but do a lot of local property management companies provide the same services that they are "managing" for their customers? 

For example, one company asked for per yard pricing for mulch, then would sub a mulch blowing company of their own to do the work. There was no way for us to know if the customer was paying more or less for the work.

Another just took over an HOA and they have their own mowing crew(s), landscaping, etc. We're still trying to figure this one out but we know for sure they do this although not snowplowing. Snooping around their (extremely) limited website, it's next to impossible to find that they provide these services. 

I find this to be a massive conflict of interest. Yes, I know the HOA can hire whoever they want, but I fail to see how this is getting them a competitive bid?


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

There is a landscape materials provider in our area who also owns a construction company that installs said materials. 

Home Depot and Lowes both sell supplies to contractors and offer installation services. 

Either of those would be more of a conflict, no? In your case, the PMC at least has the same costs and overhead to offer those services as you would unlike my examples where they are buying stuff wholesale where the contractor can not.

It seems like if they made a habit of using their own crew, they'd quickly get swamped and be unable to manage any additional properties. So they are basically just a landscape company. 

If an NSP had it's own snow removal crew, would it be any different than them sending that crew out to clean up a lot if all the subs were otherwise booked or too expensive?


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

I find these management companies to be not very transparent intentionally.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Multiple management companies around here do it... Some have since folded their mowing crews but still plow (can't imagine why)... One large one does it all for their buildings, even have themselves a Snowrator...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> There is a landscape materials provider in our area who also owns a construction company that installs said materials.
> 
> Home Depot and Lowes both sell supplies to contractors and offer installation services.
> 
> ...


Not worried about HD or Lowes...hence the "local". Same goes for NSP's as I have a bit of respect for those that actually do some level of self performing. It's the folks in California or Florida that I really can't stand because they don't have the slightest comprehension of what snow removal entails.

No one has the same "costs and overhead". This also eliminates the need for them to actually know how to bid, they can take our pricing and underbid, overbid or bid the same and award the contract to themselves. My understanding is that PM companies do the legwork for the HOA and award contracts...at least our contracts are with the PM, not the HOA. Maybe they do provide all bids before awarding them. But then all the contracts should go directly to the HOA first. But they don't.

This PM company has been around since 2019 and appears to only have maybe 10 customers.

And maybe I'm just old fashioned and expect everyone to be honest and above board because that's the way I do it.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No one has the same "costs and overhead". This also eliminates the need for them to actually know how to bid, they can take our pricing and underbid, overbid or bid the same and award the contract to themselves.


K. Can't any other landscape company do the same? And can't the customer use your quote to get a cheaper quote from any of your competitors?



Mark Oomkes said:


> My understanding is that PM companies do the legwork for the HOA and award contracts...at least our contracts are with the PM, not the HOA. Maybe they do provide all bids before awarding them. But then all the contracts should go directly to the HOA first. But they don't.


Let's put it another way. You have a site that you sub out to another landscape company because you don't have the manpower. Due to changes, (the subs price, your own accounts, whatever reason, take your pick) at a later date you start servicing it with your own crew again.

Do you have an obligation to give the subs contact info to your customer should they want to get another price? Are you under any obligation to tell your customer what you were paying the sub? Are you under any obligation to continue to use that sub just because they were doing it in the past?


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> This PM company has been around since 2019 and appears to only have maybe 10 customers.
> 
> And maybe I'm just old fashioned and expect everyone to be honest and above board because that's the way I do it.


Just like you expect every NSP to be honest, trustworthy....

If your primary gripe is that the PMC is local vs the NSP being national, then I assume you are saying all local companies are all honest and trustworthy. Is that only local Meatchicken companies or local companies in general?

Let's flip things around once more. You know what you were being paid by the PMC. Clearly they were charging the HOA more. What's to stop you from submitting an unsolicited bid proposal directly to the HOA for that same amount and cut out the PMC?


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> but I fail to see how this is getting them a competitive bid?


Besides all these management companies make money off CAM too... It's not like they're giving the customer exactly what you bid either...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> K. Can't any other landscape company do the same? And can't the customer use your quote to get a cheaper quote from any of your competitors?


Sure, but I'm dealing with a PM company that is supposed to be looking out for the best of their customers.



cwren2472 said:


> Do you have an obligation to give the subs contact info to your customer should they want to get another price? Are you under any obligation to tell your customer what you were paying the sub? Are you under any obligation to continue to use that sub just because they were doing it in the past?


I'm not a PM management company. What if I was paying the sub what I was charging?

Apples to oranges once again. The PM company is supposed to be managing certain aspects of the HOA for the good of the HOA. If there is a conflict of interest because they really aren't taking competitive bids, how is that working for the best of the HOA?



cwren2472 said:


> Just like you expect every NSP to be honest, trustworthy....


Like I said, maybe I'm naive. I am more asking to find out if this is a regular thing or not. I don't deal with many PMs so I don't know. This is relatively new for me.



cwren2472 said:


> If your primary gripe is that the PMC is local vs the NSP being national, then I assume you are saying all local companies are all honest and trustworthy. Is that only local Meatchicken companies or local companies in general?


Did I say that? No, I said maybe I'm naive because I expect everyone to be honest and work for the best of their customer.

There's a saying: Take care of the customer and the customer will take care of you.



cwren2472 said:


> Let's flip things around once more. You know what you were being paid by the PMC. Clearly they were charging the HOA more. What's to stop you from submitting an unsolicited bid proposal directly to the HOA for that same amount and cut out the PMC?


Who is the HOA president? When is the bid due? Why would I bypass their established way of doing business, because in my view that is not above board/ethical.

A friendly competitor subbed a driveway to us this year because they weren't in the area. The customer called us to get a quote for lawn work. First thing I did was contact my competitor and told him what was going on and told him we wouldn't bid it if he wanted the work. Because I'm not going to steal work from him, even when asked because I will never get work from him again if he needs me to and I don't want to be thought of as being unethical.

Maybe it's the Midwest vs East Coast difference. Call me traditional, naive, stupid, whatever but I can sleep at night with a clear conscience.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Sure, but I'm dealing with a PM company that is supposed to be looking out for the best of their customers.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm not a PM management company. What if I was paying the sub what I was charging?


Doubt that.



Mark Oomkes said:


> Apples to oranges once again. The PM company is supposed to be managing certain aspects of the HOA for the good of the HOA. If there is a conflict of interest because they really aren't taking competitive bids, how is that working for the best of the HOA?


The only benefit the PMC provides is a one-source solution for the HOA. The HOA doesn't need to hire a company for mowing, a company for trimming, a company for mulching, a company for snow removal, etc. Will they get a "competitive" price? Maybe, if only because the PMC is more diligent about soliciting multiple bids and the PMC has experiencing knowing what stuff "should" cost. You can't expect someone on an HOA board to be well versed in what every aspect of lawn care, snow removal, <insert related industry here> should reasonably cost. So you deal with 1 company and let them sort it out.

This is the same service provided by NSPs and a point I've made before. You can't expect 300 separate store managers to know what is a "reasonable" price to pay for every service.



Mark Oomkes said:


> Like I said, maybe I'm naive. No, I said maybe I'm naive


Hey, hey, I don't have any room left to add to my signature line.



Mark Oomkes said:


> There's a saying: Take care of the customer and the customer will take care of you.
> 
> Who is the HOA president? When is the bid due? Why would I bypass their established way of doing business, because in my view that is not above board/ethical.


Perhaps not. But your concern is that the PMC was not ethical to being with, no?



Mark Oomkes said:


> A friendly competitor subbed a driveway to us this year because they weren't in the area. The customer called us to get a quote for lawn work. First thing I did was contact my competitor and told him what was going on and told him we wouldn't bid it if he wanted the work. Because I'm not going to steal work from him, even when asked because I will never get work from him again if he needs me to and I don't want to be thought of as being unethical.
> 
> Maybe it's the Midwest vs East Coast difference. Call me traditional, naive, stupid, whatever but I can sleep at night with a clear conscience.


To be clear, I was not suggesting that you try and steal accounts by circumventing the PMC, or in any other way. Only that doing so is no more (or less) unethical than what they were doing.


----------



## prezek (Dec 16, 2010)

We've come across a few that were actually HVAC by trade, so subbed out all the landscaping/snow, etc. I guess if they feel they are the most reliable at what they do, they are taking care of their customer in the best way…I think that may be what @cwren2472 was saying in the previous 23 posts.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

prezek said:


> We've come across a few that were actually HVAC by trade, so subbed out all the landscaping/snow, etc. I guess if they feel they are the most reliable at what they do, they are taking care of their customer in the best way…I think that may be what @cwren2472 was saying in the previous 23 posts.


Wait, are you saying my ramblings had a point to them? That doesn't sound like me at all…


----------



## prezek (Dec 16, 2010)

cwren2472 said:


> Wait, are you saying my ramblings had a point to them? That doesn't sound like me at all…


It's debatable. I was trying to put a stop to the bleeding.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BTW, didn't get past the first line to realize who you are.


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Huh, welcome back Walter/kOnoR/Richard/Billy/severalothersIdon'trecall.
> 
> Less than 12 hours this time, your patience must be wearing thin.


What's is it with you and all these crazies???


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

m_ice said:


> What's is it with you and all these crazies???


It's my charming personality.


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> It's my charming personality.


Sure


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> It's my charming personality.


Aw..... isn't that special


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Huh, welcome back Walter/kOnoR/Richard/Billy/severalothersIdon'trecall.
> 
> Less than 12 hours this time, your patience must be wearing thin.


Covered some ground today, London in the morning and Italy in the afternoon..... At this rate could be in Ukraine for breakfast on Wednesday


----------



## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

EzraPound said:


> Are you sure you actually own a business? This has been a constant source of amusement for me all day. What you seem to be neglecting is the fact that the Property Management Company is basically a General Contractor type operation.
> 
> There is no real conflict of interest in this scheme. Often a General Contractor will be the primary building contractor on a job-site and only sub-contract the more specialized tasks: plumbing, electrical, masonry work, ect and so on. While the GC employs either his own primary building company to do the rest of the work. I guess you don't work on big projects often...
> 
> ...


You could try and use the internet, and you would find his/their company has been in business since the 1930's.


----------



## Goodnyou (Mar 20, 2015)

We are in Boston . We do work for many property management companies. From what I see they can be set up 2 ways. Work for your clients best interests . Or work for your own best interests . You need to know who you are working for . Many of the more established operations couldn’t be bothered to do anything other than manage the work. A few new upstarts realize there is money in snow and some other services if you are set up . They use vendors to establish pricing then take the work themselves . They are supposed to present all options to board for review . It’s funny but proposals from some companies are not always presented. I knew one company was using me to set the price . They took over a building I service . For this year I cut the price in half , knowing I would lose the work and I did. Well they failed and now mid season they want me back
It’s also really easy for some of them to get someone fired . My friend does lots of cleaning and janitorial . The property manager gets a complaint about service . He doesn’t call the vendor to fix issue . 
then vendor gets replaced with cleaners from néw management co. Happens all the time . Sort of the business model for some folks . I have lost a few good snow accounts . Snow melts off roof and on front stairways . Owners complain . Manager with his own agenda never notifies us to resalt. We get let go for failure to respond to service requests


----------

