# Any Old School Boys ever see it this BAD BEFORE!



## Snow Picasso (Dec 15, 2004)

Has anyone ever seen the snowfall totals this low before?:crying: :crying:


----------



## spittincobra01 (Nov 14, 2005)

the local weather men were talking about this about a week ago. I guess we are between weather patterns and that is what is causing this. One of them is el ninio, the other is something else ninio..lol (don't exactly recall)

The good news is that the last time this occured was 1955, and here we only had 1.5" by the end of Dec, but in Jan we had 34", Feb 39", and March 41". Lets just hope it happens again just like it did in 55!


----------



## Up North (May 4, 2004)

Snow Picasso;343196 said:


> Has anyone ever seen the snowfall totals this low before?:crying: :crying:


I live in northern MN and haven't plowed yet this season. Oh well...more time to ice fish.

Buck


----------



## rembrandt100 (Dec 29, 2005)

In Toronto Can. we may get a full 1-2cm next Wednesday. I do not go to work til 5 cm tho. Have not plowed or seen more than 2-6 mins of snow this season. But I seem to remember this same situation last year at this time.


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

In the last 5yrs I averaged 20 plows for the season,right now I'm at 2 so I'm sure it will come.


----------



## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

Back in 1994 we had 1 event of 3" of slush, the rest of the winter all we had was rain, it was as they say a piss poor snow season. I hope things change here in boston soon, its starting to look like 1994 all over again!


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 30, 2006)

Up North;343210 said:


> I live in northern MN and haven't plowed yet this season. Oh well...more time to ice fish.
> 
> Buck


Don't even have ice to fish on! And diggin the boat back out is just asking for trouble!


----------



## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

No matter what you think is causing it our climate is changing for what seems like the long haul. I was watching the news last night and they were talking about the polar bears very existance being in danger because the polar ice caps are melting so rapidly. This doesn't mean that we won't have extreme cold spells from time to time. Just fewer of them.
I keep check on weather history and it looks to me like 1950 to 1985 had much colder extremes and much more snow. Then the climate gradually got warmer on average.
This current warmer extreme is caused mostly by elnino out in the pacific. But on average we will probably continue to see temps rise no matter what is happening out in the pacific


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Global warming, what a crock of sh!t.

1. The climate was much warmer when the dinosaurs roamed the earth.
2. We are coming out of an Ice age, so I wonder what is going to happen to the ice.
3. When mt. st. Helen erupted it spewed more greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere than the whole industrial revolution did.
That's just from 1 volcano.
It is called a drought, not global warming. Remember hearing about the Great Dust Bowl?
I guess it is not even a drought as it has ben raining in the areas that do not have snow.

Some years it snows in November some not until the end of Dec or the beginning of Jan.
If we have no snow at the end of January then we'll talk.


----------



## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

SnoFarmer;343295 said:


> Global warming, what a crock of sh!t.
> 
> 1. The climate was much warmer when the dinosaurs roamed the earth.
> 2. We are coming out of an Ice age, so I wonder what is going to happen to the ice.
> ...


I guess grass growing where there use to be snow in Alaska is just those who live there is their imagination?
I guess the polar ice caps melting at a rapid clip is just scientist imagination?

Maybe its just the earths cycle relative to the sun. Maybe it is with the help of man. But the earth is showing signs of warming. I know in my area that over all it has warmed. Only take a slight increased in world temps to make a big difference in our weather. Last year this board was complaining about lack of snow too.


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Man has been on this earth a very short time and has kept records for even a shorter period of time.

Are the glaciers still be covering much of north America?
So it's been warming up for a long time then?

When the dinosaurs roamed it was much warmer than it is now then it got much colder and glaciers covered much of North America .. I see a cycle happening.

Some scientist are just shouting the sky is falling, the sky is falling and jumping on the tree hugger bandwagon.


----------



## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Charles;343252 said:


> I was watching the news last night and they were talking about the polar bears very existance being in danger because the polar ice caps are melting so rapidly.


I am pretty much the last one to believe anything said on the news these days. I have to agree with others, man has been on this planet for a thimble full of time the planet has been around.

Most scientists did not even know about polar bears until the 20th century. Now they are making predictions of their existence of an animal that has survived, over 200,000 years of existence, many, many more dramatic climate changes then what man has recorded in the past 100 or so years.

Heck it is well known and documented that some time before America was discovered that Greenland was actually green and not covered in glacier. How did the polar bears exist then?

Hate to say it, but news programs will say anything for a dollar. Not to discredit that we may in fact be going through a warming period, but not nearly close enough to jump on the "sky is falling" band wagon.

There are some well documented research on the effects of man and earth that counteract some of current beliefs. In one well researched theory, it was theorized that the damage that man has done to green house gases could be reversed in three years, if man stopped producing such. That is to say, if man were taking off the planet, mother Earth would cleanse itself in three years of the damage, and believe it or not the oceans would do the most of the cleansing.

As more research is done the true effects of it will be known. Much in the same way people burning wood instead of oil were scorned for polluting the environment. Only today to learn that it is better then pulling a fossil fuel from the ground to heat. Some of the same principals are carried over into the advantages of bio-diesel.

end of rant.


----------



## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

I agree that is could be just a cycle. One thing that scientist point toward is ice cores showing more greenhouse gases in this era than in the past 100,000 years. They can go back 100,000 years or more using the ice core extraction method. But like you said it could be a Sun cycle etc


----------



## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Charles;343318 said:


> I agree that is could be just a cycle. One thing that scientist point toward is ice cores showing more greenhouse gases in this era than in the past 100,000 years. They can go back 100,000 years or more using the ice core extraction method. But like you said it could be a Sun cycle etc


True. The ice studies they are doing is amazing. One thing, you can look at there charts of the earth temperature from the data they have collected and see that during the past 100 years the cycle that we are going through is just a tiny bump compared to what has happened in the past.


----------



## Oshkosh (Sep 11, 2005)

*SciScientist say this has nothing to do with Global Warming*

Global warming is an important issue..BUT the scientist say this weather pattern that we are in has NOTHING to do with the long term effects of global warming.The jet stream is just going around us here in the Northeast...In Global warming they are talking a 2 degree rise over hundreds of years not 10 degrees in a month....
There is evidence that we are in a pattern going back hundreds if not thousands of years.When the scientist take ice plugs from the Arctic there has been cooling and warming cycles longer than man has been on this earth.There is allot that we can do that wont hinder our work or fun....
The North Pole maybe shrinking but the Arctic has been cooling and growing and has been for many years.Man has been here a very short time in the life of this planet and short term results(10-20years) are just that, a bump on our planets history.
That being said I am all for better fuel mileage and us getting as far away from fossil fuels as we can...Whether or not we are causing this mess we should all do what we can not to abuse the planet that we live on.
Soccer Moms driving Hummers to the store just piss me off...Buy them an,Audi, BMW or Mercedes if they want/need to be looked at(Center of attention), but 6mpg that is just stupid.
That is my .02....


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

GLOBAL WARMING FACTS;
Indeed, there are natural sources of greenhouse gases. At times during the earth's history, natural emissions of greenhouse gases have been critical factors in major biological calamities on the planet. For instance, during the "Permian extinction" *250 million years ago*, volcanic greenhouse gases played a primary role in the catastrophic climate change that caused about 80% of the life on earth to die off. At other times, naturally released greenhouse gases have also played a role.

Not to say that man is not part of the problem, this time around.

The Dinosaurs are long gone and the same fate can and probably will happen to man at some point in time also.

Beginning about 18,000 years ago the Earth started warming up, halting at least temporarily a 100,000-year-long Ice Age, during which the upper latitudes of almost all the continents lay buried under thick sheets of glacial ice.

The Earth was a much colder and drier place then. Deserts were more extensive, summers were short, and winters brutal. Approximately 1/5 of the forests on the planet were obliterated by the great ice sheets. Over 1/2 of the continent of North America was a desolate wasteland of ice.

At the peak of glaciation, oceans were 300 feet lower than they are today, allowing animals and men to walk from Siberia to Alaska across the Aleutian Land Bridge, causing changes to the ecosystem of North America. It wasn't until about 15,000 years ago that global warming caused the great glaciers to retreat, allowing establishment of our accustomed environment. Average global temperatures have risen about 5° C since the last Ice Age.

The Role of the Greenhouse Effect
From an historical perspective, global warming has saved us, at least temporarily, from an Icehouse Climate, although humans can hardly take the credit.

Science is clear on what controls cycles of climate change. Global warming (and cooling) cycles are controlled primarily by:

1) Cyclical variations in the sun's energy output 
2) Eccentricities in Earth's orbit 
3) The influence of plate tectonics on the distribution of continents and oceans 
4) The so-called "greenhouse effect," caused by atmospheric gases such as gaseous water vapor (not droplets), carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxides, which help to trap radiant heat which might otherwise escape into space. 
The "greenhouse effect" actually is a bit player in global climate (although without it's benefits the average temperature of the Earth would be minus 18° C). Human's did not cause the greenhouse effect, but critics maintain human additions to atmospheric greenhouse gases may cause global temperatures to rise too much.

Generally understood, but rarely publicized is the fact that 95% of the greenhouse effect is due solely to natural water vapor. Of the remaining 5%, only 0.2% to 0.3% of the greenhouse effect (depending on whose numbers you use) is due to emissions of carbon dioxide and other gases from human sources. If we are in fact in a global warming crisis, even the most aggressive and costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have an undetectable effect on global climate. However, significant efforts to limit the emission of greenhouse gases in the United States are currently underway.


----------



## NJ Plowman (Dec 10, 2003)

Snowfall....what's that?


----------



## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

Here is an article on the subject:


Meltdown fear as Arctic ice cover falls to record winter low


David Adam, environment correspondent
Monday May 15, 2006
The Guardian

Record amounts of the Arctic ocean failed to freeze during the recent winter, new figures show, spelling disaster for wildlife and strengthening concerns that the region is locked into a destructive cycle of irreversible climate change.

Satellite measurements show the area covered by Arctic winter sea ice reached an all-time low in March, down some 300,000 square kilometres on last year -an area bigger than the UK.

Scientists say the decline highlights an alarming new trend, with recovery of the ice in winter no longer sufficient to compensate for increased melting in the summer. If the cycle continues, the Arctic ocean could lose all of its ice much earlier than expected, possibly by 2030.

Article continues
Walt Meier, a researcher at the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado, which collected the figures, said: "It's a pretty stark drop. In the winter the ice tends to be pretty stable, so the last three years, with this steady decline, really stick out."

Experts are worried because a long-term slow decline of ice around the north pole seems to have sharply accelerated since 2003, raising fears that the region may have passed one of the "tipping points" in global warming. In this scenario, warmer weather melts ice and drives temperatures higher because the dark water beneath absorbs more of the sun's radiation. This could make global warming quickly run out of control.

Dr Meier said there was "a good chance" the Arctic tipping point has been reached. "People have tried to think of ways we could get back to where we were. We keep going further and further into the hole, and it's getting harder and harder to get out of it."

The Arctic is rapidly becoming the clearest demonstration of the effects of mankind's impact on the global climate. The temperature is rising twice as fast as the rest of the planet and the region is expected to warm by a further 4C-7C by 2100. The summer and winter ice levels are the lowest since satellite monitoring began in 1979, and almost certainly the lowest since local people began keeping records around 1900. The pace of decline since 2003, if continued, would see the Arctic totally ice-free in summer within 30 years - though few scientists would stake their reputations on a long-term trend drawn from only three years.

Experts at the US Naval Postgraduate School in California think the situation could be even worse. They are about to publish the results of computer simulations that show the current rate of melting, combined with increased access for warmer Pacific water, could make the summertime Arctic ice-free within a decade. Dr Meier said: "For 800,000 to a million years, at least some of the Arctic has been covered by ice throughout the year. That's an indication that, if we are heading for an ice-free Arctic, it's a really dramatic change and something that is unprecedented almost within the entire record of human species."

The winter ice has declined all around the region - bad news for polar bears, which spend summer on land before returning to the ice in spring to catch food.


----------



## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Charles;343371 said:


> Record amounts of the Arctic ocean failed to freeze during the recent winter


This is what bothers me and I mean no disrespect.

Record to what? Compared to what? In the past two years? Decade? 100,000 years? About the only proof that the article demonstrates to support the "record" is a comparison to the previous year. Man the life boats, the flood is coming according to this article.

Opening statements like this in a news article just, just discredit themselves. Worse yet there is no supporting evidence to support the opening statement throughout the article. Anything for a buck.

Just news fluff to me sad to say.


----------



## Up North (May 4, 2004)

[email protected];343248 said:


> Don't even have ice to fish on! And diggin the boat back out is just asking for trouble!


Dang, that's going to one long boring winter!! 

Global warming is a fact. I've looked into it pretty extensively and without a doubt it exists. Yes it's true the world's climate fluctuates, that's a documented fact. But the problem we are encountering is the speed and intensity of the fluctuation. We are seeing things that have never happened before, and like Charles said the polar bear will be extinct in 10 years. They've been having a tough time surviving for the past few years. Polar bears basicly live on the ice cap, and that ice cap is shrinking fast. What used to be a mile or so swim to the ice cap (if they were on land) is now sometimes a 250 mile swim...they don't make it. I went to a program put on by Will Steger a couple months ago and his last trip to Antarctica was a few years ago and the one ice shelf they traversed was 350 miles in length, it's now gone. He showed satelite photos, it is completely gone in just a matter of a few years. We can't reverse global warming but we can slow it considerably, and it doesn't take much to do so. Here's a couple websites that are pretty interesting if you care to check it out, one is Will Stegers site, and another is for Fresh Energy.

http://www.globalwarming101.com/

http://www.fresh-energy.org/

Buck


----------



## Vinnie (Dec 4, 2006)

Are these the same scientist that have been telling us there are nine planets BUT now tell us pluto is not a planet? " The earth is flat Columbus! " I dont know about you guys but Im going out and buying a lawnmower. I look at it this way - I bought a new plow and it hasnt snowed so now Ill have a new mower and it should snow like hell.


----------



## stumpslawncare (Dec 19, 2006)

Up North;343210 said:


> I live in northern MN and haven't plowed yet this season. Oh well...more time to ice fish.
> 
> Buck


Ice it's gonna be 50 here Saturday. Indiana weather sucks...


----------



## GSE (Dec 17, 2004)

I haven't seen it this GOOD in a number of years! Seasonal contracts are where it's at people.


----------



## RJ lindblom (Sep 21, 2006)

Not enough evidence of global warming.

We only have about 100 years of good weather observations. The age of the planet is quite bit older than 100 years.

The climate is in a constant state of change... It seems global warming is more of a political topic than a scientific discussion. It seems its more about party in charge than anything else. Again a scientist or a reporter with an agenda can skew the data to support their conclusions.

Looking at the records it seems to be a reminder of the 1930s.


----------



## TerrForms (Dec 9, 2005)

*Ouch!*




MY PLOWS ARE WORTH MORE AT THE JUNK YARD THAN ON MY TRUCKS THIS YEAR.
PRAY FOR SNOW.

JS


----------



## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

I think I remember one other year where we didn't get any snow until January, that's been about 10 years ago, but I can't say I can remember a completely snow-less winter. I got a good storm back on Dec 1, 14" plus drifts, it was a long weekend.

Hang in there guys, it'll come.


----------



## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

I think Buck is pretty much on point. Global warming is very real. 

People keep saying that it was warmer when the dinosaurs were around.... that there are cycles and such. I seem to recall that the last cycle whiped out all the dinosaurs! Obviously the scientific explanation for the exinction of the dinosaurs varies, but they all seem to revolve around air polution. A volcanic eruption that shoots ash into the sky. A meteor strike that sends whatever into the air. Most of the theories revolve around air polution.

Pretty much i agree this is a cycle.... but near the end of this cycle is the apocalypse.... everyone will die and the earth will start over again in a billion years or whatever. Might as well not speed the cycle up

Anyways - how can anyone argue that a decrease in the amount of all this crap we pump into the air is a bad thing?


----------



## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

RJ lindblom;343421 said:


> Not enough evidence of global warming.
> 
> We only have about 100 years of good weather observations. The age of the planet is quite bit older than 100 years.
> 
> ...


Did you just ignore the ice core research? lol How about tree rings? Either way scientist can go back 1000s of years to study climate change. The proof that something has seriously gone wrong is Alaska and Antarctica/polar ice cap rapid shrinkage. This is where we get our cold weather from.
Yes it has been made political. None of the corporations running our government want to clean up their act. They don't want the cost effect of that cleanup. Corporations contribute lots to campaigns and parties as you well know.
I can see this part of our governments position--that all countries of the world should share equally in the pain of cleanup. The UN is leaving out developing countries.
Our government is now requiring the National geographical dept to submit their findings to the Dept of Interior before scientific findings on global warming are made public. Why? So the administration can censure any finding that points toward Global warming is all I can figure.


----------



## murray83 (Dec 3, 2005)

I was reading through this thread and seen some interesting facts but I too agree that science is just numbers to most.However,Being from Canada I have been very lucky to meet a few native elders the last couple years and I myself would listen to their facts before any scientists.


----------



## The mayor (Oct 31, 2005)

GSE;343415 said:


> I haven't seen it this GOOD in a number of years! Seasonal contracts are where it's at people.


In my second year of this and everything is contracts. Could care less if it snows.


----------



## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

rembrandt100;343219 said:


> In Toronto Can. we may get a full 1-2cm next Wednesday. I do not go to work til 5 cm tho. Have not plowed or seen more than 2-6 mins of snow this season. But I seem to remember this same situation last year at this time.


last year in Toronto we had worked 40% of our projected hours. In Jan/Feb we worked another 20% and the last 40% of projected hours we didn't work. Maybe 60 hours of plowing max.

This year I've had 3 salt events and no plowing.


----------



## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

Sure global warming exists. Is it the reason for not having snow in the last 2 years? NO WAY

This same thing has happened before. The earth goes through cycles. I'm sure some of you old guys remember the ice age 

Next year we might get twice the snow we have had in years. 

2001 by this time the lakes were frozen and there was 3' of snow on them.


----------



## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

The mayor;343509 said:


> In my second year of this and everything is contracts. Could care less if it snows.


Sure sure, just keep rubbing it in. 

Thats not done everywhere, you know. Small towns like here only want it per push. Besides, just wait until another year when we have snow every day and you are all whining about having to work too much for what you quoted, and the rest of us are raking in the payup instead.

Seasonal contracts are a guarenteed ripoff. Either for the customer, or for the contractor, one way or another someone is getting gypped. Best hope its not you.

I think I'll stick to billing people for the work that gets done. At least its fair. Not like theres much choice to doing it any other way here anyways.


----------



## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

I agree. My .02 cents.


----------



## jce4isu (Sep 12, 2005)

derekbroerse;343575 said:


> Sure sure, just keep rubbing it in.
> 
> Thats not done everywhere, you know. Small towns like here only want it per push. Besides, just wait until another year when we have snow every day and you are all whining about having to work too much for what you quoted, and the rest of us are raking in the payup instead.
> 
> ...


im with you its going to be hard to sell seasonal next year if we dont get some snow


----------



## RJ lindblom (Sep 21, 2006)

*Charles*

Did you ignore the fact that the earth is in a constant state of change? The fact that climate runs in cycles?

Do you honestly think that global warming is a man made event? The fact that before the previous ice age most everything was warm and tropical?


----------



## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

jce4isu;343584 said:


> im with you its going to be hard to sell seasonal next year if we dont get some snow


Around here, I'd say it would have been a hard sell after LAST year already...


----------



## spittincobra01 (Nov 14, 2005)

here is what I think...

I have way too many problems to worry about today, than to worry about something that is inevitable and will happen tomorrow.. That being said, I do my part to reduce polution, I don't litter, I use efficient heating sources, turn off lights when not in use... and sure I don't want my kids to have to deal with a problem I helped create... but global warming is not being caused by us, and there really isn't much we can do to stop it or even slow it down. 

I do think this seasons slow start is more because of weather patterns rather than global warming, and I won't lose any sleep over it either way. life is short, so enjoy today


----------



## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

spittincobra01;343590 said:


> here is what I think...
> 
> I have way too many problems to worry about today, than to worry about something that is inevitable that will happen tomorrow.. That being said, I do my part to reduce polution, I don't litter, and I don't want my kids to have to deal with a problem I helped create... but global warming is not being caused by us, and there really isn't much we can do to stop it or even slow it down.
> 
> I do think this seasons slow start is more because of weather patterns rather than global warming, and I won't lose any sleep over it either way. life is short, so enjoy today


Well said.

We do have to give room for the global warming cooks (read: the sky is falling cooks) as we had a couple of cool summers and harsh winters. They are itching to jump on the bandwagon again as they have not had much to gripe about of late.


----------



## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

Let me put it another way lol

Ok the ice/snow is melting way up north over the past so many years faster than we have ever known it to melt and it is NOT being replaced. So it must be warmer up there to make this happen. Up there is where we get our cold weather from. Wouldn't it make sense that we are getting less cold weather from up there? Only takes a slight rise in temps to change snow to rain or sleet.


----------



## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

Then what about all the places getting above average snowfall and colder than avarage temps?

Is denver exempt from global warming?


----------



## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

And I think too many of you guys put all your eggs in one basket.


Personally, I prefer a mix of seasonal and per push

You want enough seasonal to cover your expenses, etc... but you need enough per push accounts to make plowing 14 storms in a month worth while. That way you never really lose.


----------



## GSE (Dec 17, 2004)

crazymike;343643 said:


> And I think too many of you guys put all your eggs in one basket.
> 
> Personally, I prefer a mix of seasonal and per push
> 
> You want enough seasonal to cover your expenses, etc... but you need enough per push accounts to make plowing 14 storms in a month worth while. That way you never really lose.


Well said Mike. I run 75% seasonal, 25% per event or per hour. Keeps a steady amount of $$ coming in regardless, but covers my consumables such as salt, fuel, payroll and worker's comp when it actually snows.


----------



## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

spittincobra01;343201 said:


> the local weather men were talking about this about a week ago. I guess we are between weather patterns and that is what is causing this. One of them is el ninio, the other is something else ninio..lol (don't exactly recall)
> 
> The good news is that the last time this occured was 1955, and here we only had 1.5" by the end of Dec, but in Jan we had 34", Feb 39", and March 41". Lets just hope it happens again just like it did in 55!


Oh wow, just realized that the poster of this is really close to me!!! Usually someone posting somehting like that is aways away....ide LOVE for that to happen this year!! All spread out in those months in little 6-8 inch storms would be absolutly perfect!


----------



## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

If any of you are really interested in this topic, I suggest you pick up "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton. Great read, and will give you something to do to pass the time on these long snowless winter nights.


----------



## Duracutter (Oct 25, 2006)

Snow Picasso;343196 said:


> Has anyone ever seen the snowfall totals this low before?:crying: :crying:


Depends where you live. Canada as a whole has seen little snow so far, but here in Alberta it snowed every second day in November. Record snow fall and we even paid off a newer Deere bobcat because of so many parking lots needing to be done. My monthly contracts good off good but we offset that with parking lots and icemelt/roadchip.

purplebou


----------



## rembrandt100 (Dec 29, 2005)

derekbroerse;343575 said:


> Sure sure, just keep rubbing it in.
> 
> Thats not done everywhere, you know. Small towns like here only want it per push. Besides, just wait until another year when we have snow every day and you are all whining about having to work too much for what you quoted, and the rest of us are raking in the payup instead.
> 
> ...


Ok i read a few posts past this one but decided to reply anyway. Sir I am not a gambler. Plain and simple. This is my life and I only get one chance at it. I offer all of my clients a choice. Per push or per month? They chose. This year I have enough on contract to pay the bills and still clear a few hundred a week. I have enough on per push to pay all the costs of labour and fuel each time I go out and still clear 500.00 per showfall that entails 5-7 hours each event. I never lose this way. I may make a little less or evan a little more, But I do not lose.

Dave

Edit:
Thats not done everywhere, you know. Small towns like here only want it per push

Ok, so tell me when did it become your job to be the hero in a snowstorm? 
Why should you invest thousands of dollars and time and be dependant on the weather to make a living.
Does your insurance company revise your cost because you did not plow in any one month. 
Why should you sit around and stew about if it is going to snow or not when you client sits on his butt and complains if you are not there soon enough? 
Along you line of thinking the client gets all of the benifit and none of the cost associated with it.

I have pushed snow for 18 years. I have always had the same sys for billing. I have NEVER lost, or had to dig into my summer money to get thru the winter.


----------



## spittincobra01 (Nov 14, 2005)

Ok, some of you say the poor snow fall is due to global warming... and you say it often. 

we all know scientists say: our ice caps have receeded.

Some of you say: farther than we have ever known them to.

So let me ask those of who are concerned about global warming this: do you really think it's global warming that is causing the shift in weather? If so, do you happen to operate a hybrid plow vehicle of some sort? 

If not, perhaps there is more that you could be doing to prevent the global warming you fret rather than attempting to get everyone else onto your band wagon. It would probably work better than trying to turn a non-believer into one who advocates with you 

just a thought...


----------



## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

crazymike;343641 said:


> Then what about all the places getting above average snowfall and colder than avarage temps?
> 
> Is denver exempt from global warming?


Denver is a mile high up in the air. We will still get lots of snow and frigid temps from time to time as weather patterns change. Even with it warming up north there is still plenty of cold air left up there. Just not as cold as it use to be and over the years it will keep on warming up there and down here.
The good news is the perma frost melt could screw up the gulf stream causing a mini ice age


----------



## Mow It All (Jul 13, 2006)

*Im So Sorry Guys*

Hey guys i must appologize for no snow this year, it really is my fault. Since I own the Landscaping end i figured why not go spend the money and buy a plow, blower and have the truck worked over......See what im saying is I spend 6k for a snow set up, go hussle up buisness, spend time having putting the reflective stakes in my commercial accounts and poof.........65 degree weather. So i am truly sorry guys its my fault


----------



## streetsurfin' (Jan 22, 2004)

The story of how and why the vikings never made it in Greenland puts it all in perspective. It got a little too  for too long, for them. Or maybe they just tried to populate Greenland during a global warming.

Mighty big of you to own up to it Mr. Mow-it-all. You are forgiven.


----------



## Up North (May 4, 2004)

stumpslawncare;343414 said:


> Ice it's gonna be 50 here Saturday. Indiana weather sucks...


LOL! Yeah I just exchanged posts with another guy from Indiana, he was going to try make it to MN or WI for some ice fishing, but unless you're coming way up north here you won't find much ice. We have anywhere between 10-18 inches of good clear solid ice, depending on which lake you're on. The shallower the lake the thicker the ice.

Global warming is a fact, I've done some research on it myself for school. Here's a good site to check out.

http://www.globalwarming101.com/

Buck


----------



## Up North (May 4, 2004)

this was just released on Yahoo!. Ice shelf broke off, it had been expected for a number of years but they did not expect it to happen this soon.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061229/sc_afp/canadaarctic

Buck


----------



## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

If every one of us makes a full tray of ice cubes every day and throws them outside we will cool the planet back down in no time. And stop farting outside.


----------



## Up North (May 4, 2004)

Detroitdan;343948 said:


> If every one of us makes a full tray of ice cubes every day and throws them outside we will cool the planet back down in no time. And stop farting outside.


LOL! I think that could work...

Buck


----------



## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

rembrandt100;343756 said:


> Ok i read a few posts past this one but decided to reply anyway. Sir I am not a gambler. Plain and simple. This is my life and I only get one chance at it. I offer all of my clients a choice. Per push or per month? They chose. This year I have enough on contract to pay the bills and still clear a few hundred a week. I have enough on per push to pay all the costs of labour and fuel each time I go out and still clear 500.00 per showfall that entails 5-7 hours each event. I never lose this way. I may make a little less or evan a little more, But I do not lose.
> 
> Dave
> 
> ...


Mr Rembrandt, Sir, I do believe you have missed the point! Who ever said I was a hero? Far from it. My personal feelings aside on seasonal contracts (and that is exactly what they are, personal feelings, though they seem to be shared by the population around here) you seem to forget that you ARE LIVING IN TORONTO, where you are surrounded by commercial properties and brand-name chains. Niagara on the Lake and the surrounding towns are small, local communities and there are very few places that will even look at a seasonal bid, other than a handful of the larger chains. There are larger places that will take them, like the Pen Center in St. Catharines for example, but large malls like that are well beyond the current capacity of my small company.

As far as seasonal on residential work and such, I probably make more money the way I am set up anyways as compared to some of the seasonal quotes "Joes Snowplowing" has been leaving on people's doors, and thankfully they are not biting. I see quotes of $250 or $300 for the season, since my average driveway is around $40 per push and I average about 20 events per year... do the math.

The ONLY place that was interested in a season price from me is the local Valumart, mainly because they are a chain... but I already had the property before they took over the existing family-run grocery store, so they went with my existing contracts, and yes I make lots of money from them. The rest of my contracts all want the same thing--they want to pay for the service they get, not what they don't. I happily oblige, but mind you the prices given include my 'babysitting fees'.

Sure, I am a little worried this year because I've only plowed one lot and salted at the Valumart once... but that is part of our job. Believe me, when we have a year where we have to go out 40 times instead of the projected 20 times, I'll be grinning from ear to ear while the guys with the seasonal contracts are scrambling to keep afloat.

So, on the whole, yeah business is slow right now but hey, thats business and thats nature for ya!


----------



## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

The Weather Forecast is calling for 60% chance of flurries over the next 48 hours here, maybe I'll even get a little salting in!! payup


----------



## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Up North;343931 said:


> this was just released on Yahoo!. Ice shelf broke off, it had been expected for a number of years but they did not expect it to happen this soon.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061229/sc_afp/canadaarctic
> 
> Buck


LMAO Typical reporting. This break off occurred last year in August. Why not report it then? Oh ya, 2005 was a cool or normal summer and it would not bring in $$$ for the reporters? Nobody cared then, but give a warm month in winter, 1.5 years later, and all of a sudden it is news? Anything for a buck in the news world.

Too bad people still believe everything they hear in the news and cannot make their own decisions.


----------



## Kramer (Nov 13, 2004)

Mow It All;343805 said:


> Hey guys i must appologize for no snow this year, it really is my fault. Since I own the Landscaping end i figured why not go spend the money and buy a plow, blower and have the truck worked over......See what im saying is I spend 6k for a snow set up, go hussle up buisness, spend time having putting the reflective stakes in my commercial accounts and poof.........65 degree weather. So i am truly sorry guys its my fault


And there you have it!

About time somebody fesses up about this!

Thanks for standing up---just don't let it happen again next year LOL!


----------



## Up North (May 4, 2004)

ThisIsMe;343979 said:


> LMAO Typical reporting. This break off occurred last year in August. Why not report it then? Oh ya, 2005 was a cool or normal summer and it would not bring in $$$ for the reporters? Nobody cared then, but give a warm month in winter, 1.5 years later, and all of a sudden it is news? Anything for a buck in the news world.
> 
> Too bad people still believe everything they hear in the news and cannot make their own decisions.


Whether it happened this year, last year or in 2002...the fact of the matter it DID happen and things like this are happening at a rapid pace.

Buck


----------



## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

Up North;344031 said:


> Whether it happened this year, last year or in 2002...the fact of the matter it DID happen and things like this are happening at a rapid pace.
> 
> Buck


and at one point there was an ice age and a reversal of the iceage long before humans caused this.

Sure we are heating the planet, but it's unrealistic for it to be warming this fast entirely because of global warming.

When you can ask any 80 year old who can remember, they had plenty of winters ages ago where they got little to no snow.


----------



## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

On the news tonight they reported that 2006 was 2 degree's warmer than 2005 on average in the USA. That Washington DC's winters have been warmer for the past 15 years. That goes along with the trend I have seen here. They were saying that places in the USA where 100 degree days were considered extreme, in 50 years that will be the norm.
There still be cold snaps and lots of snow from time to time. We are just talking averages here.


----------



## 353628 (Jun 30, 2006)

*Look Who's Talking - Do You Trust Them*



Up North;343383 said:


> Dang, that's going to one long boring winter!!
> 
> Global warming is a fact. I've looked into it pretty extensively and without a doubt it exists. Yes it's true the world's climate fluctuates, that's a documented fact. But the problem we are encountering is the speed and intensity of the fluctuation. We are seeing things that have never happened before, and like Charles said the polar bear will be extinct in 10 years. They've been having a tough time surviving for the past few years. Polar bears basicly live on the ice cap, and that ice cap is shrinking fast. What used to be a mile or so swim to the ice cap (if they were on land) is now sometimes a 250 mile swim...they don't make it. I went to a program put on by Will Steger a couple months ago and his last trip to Antarctica was a few years ago and the one ice shelf they traversed was 350 miles in length, it's now gone. He showed satelite photos, it is completely gone in just a matter of a few years. We can't reverse global warming but we can slow it considerably, and it doesn't take much to do so. Here's a couple websites that are pretty interesting if you care to check it out, one is Will Stegers site, and another is for Fresh Energy.
> 
> ...


Problem as I see it is that it's hard to believe the folks promoting global warming. The greens tend to get jobs where they can promote there agenda. The National Forest Service used to be there to manage the National Forests IE Logging. Now they are more about keeping the folks out of the forest, National Park folks used to be about making parks that people could enjoy, now they are about locking up the resource to save it (for who) 
I agree the climate seems to be changing but can't buy into the fact that man is that large of a part of it.


----------



## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Up North;344031 said:


> Whether it happened this year, last year or in 2002...the fact of the matter it DID happen and things like this are happening at a rapid pace.
> 
> Buck


Correct does not matter when. You fail to see the argument.


----------



## JPMAKO (Dec 10, 2003)

crazymike;343643 said:


> And I think too many of you guys put all your eggs in one basket.
> 
> Personally, I prefer a mix of seasonal and per push
> 
> You want enough seasonal to cover your expenses, etc... but you need enough per push accounts to make plowing 14 storms in a month worth while. That way you never really lose.


Agreed 100%
Mix it up


----------



## rembrandt100 (Dec 29, 2005)

derekbroerse;343960 said:


> Mr Rembrandt, Sir, I do believe you have missed the point! Who ever said I was a hero? Far from it. My personal feelings aside on seasonal contracts (and that is exactly what they are, personal feelings, though they seem to be shared by the population around here) you seem to forget that you ARE LIVING IN TORONTO, where you are surrounded by commercial properties and brand-name chains. Niagara on the Lake and the surrounding towns are small, local communities and there are very few places that will even look at a seasonal bid, other than a handful of the larger chains. There are larger places that will take them, like the Pen Center in St. Catharines for example, but large malls like that are well beyond the current capacity of my small company.
> 
> As far as seasonal on residential work and such, I probably make more money the way I am set up anyways as compared to some of the seasonal quotes "Joes Snowplowing" has been leaving on people's doors, and thankfully they are not biting. I see quotes of $250 or $300 for the season, since my average driveway is around $40 per push and I average about 20 events per year... do the math.
> 
> ...


Still do not agree with you at all. If I sit on my butt and do nonthing for an entire month I still get to bill out over $3,500.00 for the month. Each time I go out I add $750.00 to that. It costs me maximum $200.00 per snowfall to get the work done. I do not do any large commercial properties. Nor do I sand or salt. The point that I am making is that you have invested tens of thousands of dollars in equipment with no assurance of making even a mininum return on that money. I would even venture to say that if you compared hours worked to money earned I make more money in the winter than in the summer doing property maintainance. Using the numbers above and considering that last year I only plowed 4 events that works out to about $17,000.00 for what was less than 30 hours work.

Dave


----------



## daninline (Nov 1, 2004)

I've also seen some talk that the weakening El Niño is going to have a significant lag effect and that there is little chance of the weakening El Niño will have an impact on the weather patterns over l North America before March. Again the meteorologists that will have been making that argument really don't know what the talking about. While there is a lag time when they El Niño or La Nina is ramping up because the El Nino / La Nina has to reach a certain threshold before they can significantly impact the overall northern hemisphere patterns.... once in the event is underway the atmosphere is a lot more sensitive and reacts a lot faster to changes in the El Niño/ La Nina so the idea that there is still large lag time of several weeks even though the El Niño or La Nina is already underway.... is simply not correct.


All of the weather models continue to show that pattern change is going to get underway around January 6 or 7. The pattern begins to shift because the Bering Sea vortex -- that's between eastern Siberia and Western Alaska --is going to shift or breakdown. The position of this feature over the Bering Sea is a common position when you have a moderate or strong El Niño. This results in the strong Pacific jet slamming into the western Canada and prevents any sort of Ridging over western Canada. Thus mild Pacific air overruns the much of North America... which has been the case over the last six weeks... and all cold air is bottled up in central and northern Canada. In addition the other feature that we've been lacking has been the position of the Polar Vortex (PV) which has been located over the Asian side of the world in the last six weeks. The position of the PV is critical in determining where the coldest air masses are likely to go and has a major impact upon storm tracks and development.

The European Canadian and American models this morning especially after Day10 shows a increasingly strong Ridge developing over western Canada and colder air finally moving into much of the central and eastern US. The data does not show severe or extreme cold by any stretch imagination but certainly seasonal cold which is pretty impressive considering how warm it's been. If you recall we had pattern amplification which occurred in the first week of December but that cold shot did not last because the fundamentals of the pattern did not shifted /change. The vortex was STILL located over the Bering Sea and the PV was still located over the Asian side of the world. This told forecasters that the cold shot in the first week of December was not going to last. 


WHAT CAN GO WRONG

The THREE dominating features the pattern over the last six weeks has been the appearance of a strong vortex or large upper low situated over the Bering Sea which is between Alaskan and Siberia. This Vortex results in a positive phase of EPO. When the EPO is in that position it results in the Pacific Jet crashing into western Canada and the Western CONUS which results in mild Pacific air overrunning the country and the arctic air getting bottled up in central and northern Canada. This is well we saw in January 2006 when the nation saw record warmth.

I have seen some talk of the flat ridge over the central North Pacific being a key feature as well.. This is really just spliting hairs... the Teleconnection of the Bering Sea Vortex IS the flat ridge in the cntral North Pacific.

SECOND...the lack of any sort of high latitude blocking over eastern Canada Greenland.. known as the +NAO effect. This has allowed the Polar Jet to continue to North of the Great Lakes so again the very cold air stays well north of the Canada border. In addition a + NAO means that the "mean trough position" ( or storm track) is for more likely to be located over the Plains & Midwest and indeed that has been the case over the last six weeks. The THIRD feature to talk about is the main Polar vortex which is a huge area of very low pressure in the Jet stream ( called the AO or arctic oscillation). The position and location of the AO is responsible for bringing about the coldest air masses and when it is not a located in the Western Hemisphere Aiken often bring about a very mild winter. The AO over the past six weeks has been located over in Eurasia or on the other side of the world ( called a +AO) and hence that's where the coldest air masses have been. Over the last several winters the AO for the most part has been either neutral and / or Negative and the winters over the Eastern US have been active and stormy.

Overnight almost ALL of the extended range weather models -- OP Ecwmf to D16... The Ecwmf ensembles to D16... the 0z CMC to D16 the CMC ensembles to D16 all show significant changes. Interestingly some of the GFS ensembles are not as aggressive with the change to a colder pattern and the ridging development of the West Coast as what they were yesterday. On the other hand the European ensembles are very aggressive with the cold pattern and after 300 hours really begin to go to town in the amplification of a significant Ridge developing over western portions of North America.

Even so we're still a long way off and while the model consistency is beginning to become significant and impressive nothing stone happen until January 6-7 and it may not reach the Eastern US until the 10th or 12th.

There's a lot of data that shows significant warming occurring at the very high latitudes. It has argued (because the research has shown) that such warming is indictative of the Arctic Oscillation beginning to switch back towards North America. But I am NOT a big fan of th AO-- I think its the most over rated thing since T.O. or Hillary Clintion. It must be kept in mind that last year the AO was negative -- or over North America --but all the cold air stayed over Asia and Europe. Still it IS good to see the AO dhift back to the this side of the wordl ..IF indeed that is the case but it is not by any means a sure thing.

Next... the models are very strong in showing that the vortex located over the Bering Sea is going to shift position. It really does not make a difference which direction the vortex moves... if the feature shifts back into eastern Siberia will that's very good news for the development of cold air and a colder pattern over the eastern half the US. On the other hand if the vortex slides to the east into the Gulf of Alaska... that too is also very good news for the development of a significantly colder pattern. The point is as long as the vortex stays over the Bering Sea which is a classic position for a moderate or strong El Niño the pattern over N the orth America remains very warm as the jet stream will be coming into western Canada too strong to buckle or develop any sort of Ridging... and too strong to allow anything except for a +NAO .

The data does not show severe or extreme cold by any stretch imagination by Mid January but certainly seasonal cold which is pretty impressive considering how warm it's been. If you recall we had a pattern amplification which occurred in the first week of December but that cold shot did not last because the fundamentals of the pattern did not shifted /change. The vortex was STILL located over the Bering Sea and the PV was still located over the Asian side of the world. This told forecasters that the cold shot in the first week of December was not going to last.


If the overnight weather models are correct what we looking at is a fundamental shift in the overall pattern since the vortex over the Bering Sea appears to breakdown or slide back into central Siberia and the PV that has been over Eurasia makes an appearance over the Western Hemisphere. While I expect a lot of model variance and flip flopping the KEY point will be Jan 3-7... by then we should know IF and when the vortex over the Bering Sea is going to slide or die. If the Bering Sea Vortex does not the winter may be over .

The bottom line is that there are increasing indications that Winter is coming back but for how long and how in strong of course is still the big question. 



PS Global warming is more of an affect foy us in the summer months but I will not go there


----------



## Up North (May 4, 2004)

ThisIsMe;344071 said:


> Correct does not matter when. You fail to see the argument.


Never was an arguement. Just a statement of some facts, some see them some don't. No big deal, everyone has an opinion, you stated yours, I stated mine. Now I think we've hijacked this thread enough, back to regular programming.

Buck


----------



## spittincobra01 (Nov 14, 2005)

alrighty then, someone has been doing thier homework...lol

Like I saw on the local news, and stated earlier in this thread... winter is coming once the el ninio and the whatever ninio change is complete

I must say, it's good to know someone in this world is a bigger weather nut than I am.. although my wife will still nag me about watching it on 2 different tv stations, then getting online and checking accuweather and intellicast every night


----------



## Up North (May 4, 2004)

353628;344067 said:


> Problem as I see it is that it's hard to believe the folks promoting global warming. The greens tend to get jobs where they can promote there agenda. The National Forest Service used to be there to manage the National Forests IE Logging. Now they are more about keeping the folks out of the forest, National Park folks used to be about making parks that people could enjoy, now they are about locking up the resource to save it (for who)
> I agree the climate seems to be changing but can't buy into the fact that man is that large of a part of it.


Yeah I agree with you to an extent. Some of the people involved with the global warming issue are doing an injustice. In fact there's a local group here in town that brought Will Steger here for a seminar on the issue and the seminar was great. But the local coalition or whatever they call themselves were a huge turnoff for me, they've been trying to get me to join the group but there's no way. If they would just simply educate people on the issue, tell them the facts that are known instead of trying to jam stuff down people's throats, and quit acting like tree huggers they'd get a better response. They are almost a different version of PETA. I too was very skeptical of the global warming issue, but I had to do a bunch of research on it for college this past semester. I was trying to show that global warming was just a fad and would go away. As luck goes for me, too much evidence showed me otherwise and I had to change the whole scope of my report. Anyway, I'm not going to preach on the issue anymore, I saw what I saw and it convinced me. I think in time we'll all understand it better.

Buck


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

spittincobra01;344193 said:


> I must say, it's good to know someone in this world is a bigger weather nut than I am.. although my wife will still nag me about watching it on 2 different tv stations, then getting online and checking accuweather and intellicast every night


Yea,I drive my wife nuts taking up 1/2 the 37 inch screen with the radar map. 
PIP is a wonderful thing.

There is a weather site running here almost 14hrs a day! .

I think,? I said, what I had to say on the subject in my previous post

Maybe not.?? The ice core samples bother me??

Look at the earths history "The Big Picture"...
The ice cores are just a wink in history, 100,000k to 1 million years this is not that long.

Is this a natural cycle? I believe so.

Are we influencing the cycle in some way? Maybe? sort of? a little?

Yea, Will Steger is to extreme for me too, he's turing into a fanatic.


----------



## Plow Dude (Jan 21, 2005)

GSE;343659 said:


> Well said Mike. I run 75% seasonal, 25% per event or per hour. Keeps a steady amount of $$ coming in regardless, but covers my consumables such as salt, fuel, payroll and worker's comp when it actually snows.


that is exactly how I do it. Most people who pay seasonal contracts don't care if it snows or not., but they can still relax cause if it does its taken care of and don't have to worry about montly bills. I live in S.E. Michigan and it hasn't snowed once yet, so I,m just chill'n.


----------



## RJ lindblom (Sep 21, 2006)

While you all debate this. I am going to move some snow.


----------



## RBACAS (Nov 2, 2006)

*The NEWS----Now and Then*



Up North;343383 said:


> Dang, that's going to one long boring winter!!
> 
> Global warming is a fact. I've looked into it pretty extensively and without a doubt it exists. Yes it's true the world's climate fluctuates, that's a documented fact. But the problem we are encountering is the speed and intensity of the fluctuation. We are seeing things that have never happened before, and like Charles said the polar bear will be extinct in 10 years. They've been having a tough time surviving for the past few years. Polar bears basicly live on the ice cap, and that ice cap is shrinking fast. What used to be a mile or so swim to the ice cap (if they were on land) is now sometimes a 250 mile swim...they don't make it. I went to a program put on by Will Steger a couple months ago and his last trip to Antarctica was a few years ago and the one ice shelf they traversed was 350 miles in length, it's now gone. He showed satelite photos, it is completely gone in just a matter of a few years. We can't reverse global warming but we can slow it considerably, and it doesn't take much to do so. Here's a couple websites that are pretty interesting if you care to check it out, one is Will Stegers site, and another is for Fresh Energy.
> 
> ...





> the polar bear will be extinct in 10 years. They've been having a tough time surviving for the past few years. Polar bears basicly live on the ice cap, and that ice cap is shrinking fast.


When Greenland was green [x thousand years ago], I wonder if the lead news story _then _was, that the planet was cooling --- as evidenced by the unprecedented, and "record increase" in polar ice --- and, that the "white" bears would soon become extinct because the growing ice cap would prevent the bears from hunting seals in the open sea. wesport


----------



## anthonyr (Nov 14, 2006)

*the ice age*

  I hope this global warming speeds up a bit, I'd much rather be out in the warm sun, waterskiing and fly-fishing!!!!!!!!


----------



## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

RBACAS;344292 said:


> When Greenland was green [x thousand years ago], I wonder if the lead news story _then _was, that the planet was cooling --- as evidenced by the unprecedented, and "record increase" in polar ice --- and, that the "white" bears would soon become extinct because the growing ice cap would prevent the bears from hunting seals in the open sea. wesport


I doubt people would make reports like that back then. In those days crazy people like that were called witches and hung.

We could use a good cleansing witch hunt in the news media these days.

Whoever wants to claim the polar bears will be extinct in 10 years, please put your house up as a bet. I would gladly put mine up, and take yours in 10 years as we watch some documentary on Discover Channel about polar bears eating Eskimos.


----------



## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

rembrandt100;344122 said:


> Still do not agree with you at all. If I sit on my butt and do nonthing for an entire month I still get to bill out over $3,500.00 for the month. Each time I go out I add $750.00 to that. It costs me maximum $200.00 per snowfall to get the work done. I do not do any large commercial properties. Nor do I sand or salt. The point that I am making is that you have invested tens of thousands of dollars in equipment with no assurance of making even a mininum return on that money. I would even venture to say that if you compared hours worked to money earned I make more money in the winter than in the summer doing property maintainance. Using the numbers above and considering that last year I only plowed 4 events that works out to about $17,000.00 for what was less than 30 hours work.
> 
> Dave


I'm not sure how you managed to get a contract that pays you to do nothing, then pays a bonus when you actually do work, but hey lucky you. But like I keep saying, the customers here don't want to do it like that, and probably the few that do are rethinking it right about now after a winter plus of this warm wet stuff.


----------



## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

Snow Picasso;343196 said:


> Has anyone ever seen the snowfall totals this low before?:crying: :crying:


I can remember it being so dry one winter when they called for a "dusting"

That is what we got, dust.

A few guys bragged they actually had sand but no one believed them.


----------



## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Lots of winter left, no need to get excited just yet.


----------



## rembrandt100 (Dec 29, 2005)

derekbroerse;344441 said:


> I'm not sure how you managed to get a contract that pays you to do nothing, then pays a bonus when you actually do work, but hey lucky you. But like I keep saying, the customers here don't want to do it like that, and probably the few that do are rethinking it right about now after a winter plus of this warm wet stuff.


Derek I took the time today to break it down for you. 42 homes, 2 six car apartment lots, 1 20 car apartment lot, 2 small strip plaza (5 stores, front only,) 1 manufacturing plant. 30 of the homes pay $125.00 per month snow or no snow. The balance pay a total of $762.00 per push. Each push costs me $100.00 cash for the shoveller + his coffee and $50-85 for fuel depending on traffic. All places are within 5 klics of each other and are done within 5-6 hours. I do not sand or salt. In the last 5 years I have never gone out more than 4 times in a single month. I do not actively look for snow work but only do homes that I work for in the summer plus a few neighbours. The newest client on the list is in the second year with me and the oldest I've had for 15 years. My advise to you for next year is to start building a mixed client base. At this mix I can never lose money unless I very badly smash up the truck.

Bottom line is I have never heard of a bank or insurance co offering to lower you last months cost because it did not snow. But having said that it is your company and you get to run it as you see fit.

Dave


----------



## Snow Picasso (Dec 15, 2004)

cjasonbr;343472 said:
 

> I think Buck is pretty much on point. Global warming is very real.
> 
> People keep saying that it was warmer when the dinosaurs were around.... that there are cycles and such. I seem to recall that the last cycle whiped out all the dinosaurs! Obviously the scientific explanation for the exinction of the dinosaurs varies, but they all seem to revolve around air polution. A volcanic eruption that shoots ash into the sky. A meteor strike that sends whatever into the air. Most of the theories revolve around air polution.
> 
> ...


I hope I still owe money on my equipment! LOL


----------



## Snow Picasso (Dec 15, 2004)

ThisIsMe;343979 said:


> LMAO Typical reporting. This break off occurred last year in August. Why not report it then? Oh ya, 2005 was a cool or normal summer and it would not bring in $$$ for the reporters? Nobody cared then, but give a warm month in winter, 1.5 years later, and all of a sudden it is news? Anything for a buck in the news world.
> 
> Too bad people still believe everything they hear in the news and cannot make their own decisions.


Excellent observation!


----------



## mike33 (Feb 15, 2006)

*Bobcatservice*

I started the plow business in winter 04-05 previous years we got hells of snow. Im sitting with brand new bobcat 753 and the first plowable snow came Feb. 01 05. I had a person tell me before you can not base an income off of weather. So true!. That why even though im big in my area my plow money becomes what i call my get ahead money not a budget item. But to answer your question im 46 and never seen a winter like this one so far. In the 70's we would have snow on the ground from november to late feb. Hell i hunted deer this sesaon in a pair of jeans and flannel shirt.
Mike


----------

