# I got ripped of bad!



## Michigansnowkin (Sep 28, 2009)

So last week my buddy and i bought our 1st second truck to add to our operation. It is a 93 Ford f350 v8 4x4 with a western plow. The truck is a work truck, has rust but the plow works good and the truck seemed to run great, it needed a few minor adjustments nothing we couldn't fix. Anyway we take the truck for $2600 and BACKPACK BLOWER. Two days after we take it my buddy is driving it to my house and he hears what seems to be like a really loud exhaust leak. We get in in my garage and see there is a hole in the head right where the manifold connects. The sob put muffler weld over the hole in the head to make it quiet and not leak! I know nothing about this engine its the 351, he knew what he was doing and screwed me. I contacted me and told me he drove it for three years with the muffler putty on it and never had a problem. All i got from his was he told me "welcome to the game". The body isn't in the best shape so now i cant even dump it for 1,500. Anyone know an affordable Ford mechanic, I need either a head or I was considering a new engine. Any advice? Should i take him to small claims court? Any advice will help. Thanks


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## fourspeedfish (Nov 18, 2005)

Where exactly is it leaking from? Snap a pic if you can.


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## jkiser96 (Sep 19, 2006)

That is the problem with buying from individuals with no warranty. I bought a 1997 F-350 this spring for the same amount but had to turn around & dump another $3000in it but I knew it needed the front end rebuilt. If I wa sin your situation I would look for a rebuilt engine, at least then you will know what you have.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Was he a dealer? If not, you're done.


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## Milwaukee (Dec 28, 2007)

Ok it been leak long time and exhaust heat leak between head to manifold.


We can get used head from junkyard under $50


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Michigansnowkin;906344 said:


> So last week my buddy and i bought our 1st second truck to add to our operation.
> 
> I contacted me and told me he drove it for three years with the muffler putty on it and never had a problem.
> 
> I need either a head or I was considering a new engine.


Step away from the truck and take plenty of deep breaths....you're not making any f'n sense.:laughing:

Now go find the guy and make him an offer he cant refuse.


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

Ive see where the head breaks where the stud Is suposto be on these motors. The last one I did was on the rear of the head.I had to remove the manifold and weld a new stud in. Not a fun job. Pictures would help.


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## poncho62 (Jan 23, 2004)

If its leaking between the head and exhaust manifold, no biggy...just a gasket....

If the manifold is broke, also no biggy.....get a manifold at a junkyard

If the head is broke.....biggy....new head or get it welded.

Could try some more muffler cement.


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## Michigansnowkin (Sep 28, 2009)

how do i upload images, insert image? it says put a url in?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JohnnyRoyale;906390 said:


> Step away from the truck and take plenty of deep breaths....you're not making any f'n sense.:laughing:
> 
> Now go find the guy and make him an offer he cant refuse.


Dangnabit, John, you keep beating me to the punch. :realmad::realmad:

What is a first second truck?

Why did you contact yourself?


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## fourspeedfish (Nov 18, 2005)

Milwaukee;906384 said:


> Ok it been leak long time and exhaust heat leak between head to manifold.


HUH


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## poncho62 (Jan 23, 2004)

Michigansnowkin;906542 said:


> how do i upload images, insert image? it says put a url in?


Use the "Manage Attachments" button under the box where you type....then upload from your computer


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## fourspeedfish (Nov 18, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;906550 said:


> Dangnabit,
> 
> What is a first second truck?
> 
> ...


Its way easier


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Click on "Manage Attachments". Another window will open - click on "browse" and find where your pictures are. Click on the picture you want to attach. Then "Upload".


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## Milwaukee (Dec 28, 2007)

fourspeedfish;906560 said:


> HUH


OK

here

You try image what I am SAY.

Exhaust manifold isn't bolt to head tight enough or bolt broke. It have clearance between head to manifold so exhaust leak out it. Exhaust can get REAL HOT it start make enlarge clearance. I have see some exhaust manifold have hole from leak exhaust.


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## fourspeedfish (Nov 18, 2005)

Milwaukee;906573 said:


> OK
> 
> here
> 
> ...


Its clear now, thanks


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## Andy's Beast (Oct 14, 2009)

I know that for some people, you have to take a breathalyzer before you can start the car. I wonder if they have something like that for posters?


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## tsmith (Sep 19, 2006)

I'm not sure why I visit plowsite, if it's for the advice, or the humor. It's a toss up.


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## poncho62 (Jan 23, 2004)

fourspeedfish;906577 said:


> Its clear now, thanks


Just so you guys know, Millwalkee is deaf and had trouble learning grammar........Most of us know that.....


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## fourspeedfish (Nov 18, 2005)




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## fourspeedfish (Nov 18, 2005)

poncho62;906601 said:


> Just so you guys know, Millwalkee is deaf and had trouble learning grammar........Most of us know that.....


I did not know that, and i will keep it in mind. Thanks


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

Throw some muffler weld back on and put the truck to work- let it earn its repairs. JMO


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## carl b (Dec 28, 2006)

poncho62;906601 said:


> Just so you guys know, Millwalkee is deaf and had trouble learning grammar........Most of us know that.....


ouch, I think some post need editing


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

And I wouldn't say you got ripped off bad. You got a running truck with a working plow for $2600.00.


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## MRBILLS (Jun 9, 2009)

michigansnowkin;906542 said:


> how do i upload images, insert image? It says put a url in?


u can get new manifold from napa $80.00 new gasket $30.00 2 hour labor and you are set


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## Milwaukee (Dec 28, 2007)

MRBILLS;906653 said:


> u can get new manifold from napa $80.00 new gasket $30.00 2 hour labor and you are set


Let hope it not burn though head's exhaust port from leak exhaust.


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## theonlybull (Oct 17, 2004)

parts for these trucks can be had cheap. find a whole truck, rusted out with a 351 for $400-500 ... swap the motor, and get as many other parts off it as will work for ya.. scrap the rest


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## Michigansnowkin (Sep 28, 2009)

*pic*

I think tis pic should upload?


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## Michigansnowkin (Sep 28, 2009)

*pic*

I am not good with fords, what's cracked?


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## Michigansnowkin (Sep 28, 2009)

*?*

??????????????????????


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## Milwaukee (Dec 28, 2007)

That not 351W

it 460 Sorry sold my 460 to guy last month.


You can find 460 at junkyard they are popular in F350.


It look it been whack from hammer or something to make that hole.

Just change heads you be fine.


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## Michigansnowkin (Sep 28, 2009)

F***** beautyfull huh?


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## Michigansnowkin (Sep 28, 2009)

Thats the head right?


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## Milwaukee (Dec 28, 2007)

That reason why my Uncle make me look at tons of plow trucks before he buy. To say we never found good truck. Most are hack job not finish hook or try hide.


Next time you should inspect closely before buy it.


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## Milwaukee (Dec 28, 2007)

Michigansnowkin;906961 said:


> Thats the head right?


Yes that is head.

http://img9.imageshack.us/i/ford460fk8.jpg/


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

fourspeedfish;906613 said:


> I did not know that, and i will keep it in mind. Thanks


WTF keep your jerk level down to minimum.

You didn't notice all that crap all over the place before you bought it?

Replace the head and you are out maybe $500 tops.

Good luck!


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## Michigansnowkin (Sep 28, 2009)

Oh that **** wasn't like that when i got, he had it covered with some type of dark sealant. Ya i messed up , I was in a rush, I had seen the truck around for a while, he started it at 4,500!! When i got him to 2500 i was geeked. Next time i need to see it in the light. Anyone know a good backyard mechanic near Livonia? I am working with minimum $ But I will do what i need to do to get it fixed.


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

Plenty of fords in the boneyard to choose from. Pick one that is not packed with oil cakes (if you can find one) and hope for the best.

Splurge on a crate motor and you could have yourself a decent back-up truck for around $5 grand total spent. Not to bad if you ask me and would be better then having a truck you hope will run as a back-up. The whole point of it being a back-up is it will start and run properly when needed otherwise you are just tossing money in a snow pile.

http://www.fordparts.com/?searchid=426441|32059712|210362250


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

Michigansnowkin;906994 said:


> Oh that **** wasn't like that when i got, he had it covered with some type of dark sealant. Ya i messed up , I was in a rush, I had seen the truck around for a while, he started it at 4,500!! When i got him to 2500 i was geeked. Next time i need to see it in the light. Anyone know a good backyard mechanic near Livonia? I am working with minimum $ But I will do what i need to do to get it fixed.


no way it was covered, it was like that from the get go, you just didnt notice it, its your fault for not taking a better look at the truck before hand.


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

THEGOLDPRO;907169 said:


> no way it was covered, it was like that from the get go, you just didnt notice it, its your fault for not taking a better look at the truck before hand.


Coulda sprayed that crap with black paint and colored it with magic marker black and I still woulda seen it with a quick hit of a flashlight.


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## ahoron (Jan 22, 2007)

did you look at the truck? Open the hood next time. lesson learned. how many miles might be better getting a crate motor? I would put muffler cement on it and drive it for another 3 years.


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## theonlybull (Oct 17, 2004)

yup. that's the head. and it sure looks to be the 460

call the parts places on a price on a set of heads, with no core return. then try the junkyards..... 

get r dun...... too late to say ya shoulda looked better.. she's yours now. and plow and rear ends are worth what you've paid for it


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## jrjr2u (Oct 5, 2009)

Clean the area up good and try JB Weld. That stuff is amazing!


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## poncho62 (Jan 23, 2004)

jrjr2u;907315 said:


> Clean the area up good and try JB Weld. That stuff is amazing!


Straight exhaust will melt JB weld in minutes...just too much heat.


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## jrjr2u (Oct 5, 2009)

ahhhh didn't know that. Good info, thanks


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Nothing is going to fix that except a new cylinder head. There's no goop you can put on there that's going to last any appreciable amount of time at all. He's bull$hittin you when he says he drove it for three years with that crap on there. That white crud might work on a leaking pipe way downstream, but it's not going to do anything for a hole right at the exhaust port. Get a reman head and be done with it.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

Michigansnowkin;906994 said:


> Oh that **** wasn't like that when i got, he had it covered with some type of dark sealant. Ya i messed up , I was in a rush, I had seen the truck around for a while, he started it at 4,500!! When i got him to 2500 i was geeked. Next time i need to see it in the light. Anyone know a good backyard mechanic near Livonia? I am working with minimum $ But I will do what i need to do to get it fixed.


So I decided I will help you out. I will take the truck off your hands for $2000


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

BTW... That's not an uncommon problem with later model 460 heads when they get really rotten.


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## poncho62 (Jan 23, 2004)

Michigansnowkin....I dont know what you have for tools etc, but a simple fix, for me anyways, would be to clean it up, shape a piece of 1/8-3/16 metal to shape, drop it in that hole and braze it into the cast......if the cast would hold up that is......You would still likely have to put some muffler sealer on it from time to time but it wouldn't cost you anything...just a thought what I would do....BTW, I have no money either...welcome to the club.


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## fourspeedfish (Nov 18, 2005)

They are somewhat local to you.

http://www.michmo.com/locations.php


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

poncho62;907390 said:


> Michigansnowkin....I dont know what you have for tools etc, but a simple fix, for me anyways, would be to clean it up, shape a piece of 1/8-3/16 metal to shape, drop it in that hole and braze it into the cast......if the cast would hold up that is......You would still likely have to put some muffler sealer on it from time to time but it wouldn't cost you anything...just a thought what I would do....BTW, I have no money either...welcome to the club.


Trying to braze anything to cast iron, much less 1/8" steel, usually proves to be futile.

In my opinion, any effort or money expended to cob it up is just less time or money you have towards the correct repair... which is inevitable if you really intend to use the truck. Put a head on it and get it over with. Then you can go make money with the truck without the agony of a continually reoccurring hack job.


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## poncho62 (Jan 23, 2004)

I understand that....The guy keeps stressing he has no money...........just trying to help in that dept.......get him over the hump.........


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

The good thing about those older Fords is that they are easy and cheap to fix, plus parts are plentiful. Take a weekend with a bunch of PB Blaster or your penetrating lubricant of choice and have at it.


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## suzuki0702 (Apr 6, 2008)

go get a new head dude..its not that bad of a job. i know 3 guys right now that have 351s laying around collecting snow!


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## cpsnowremoval (Oct 28, 2009)

if that hole where the stuff is around it. then wtf caused that 
you could also try craigslist for a truck for like 400 or so then you would also have a head, spare, trans and axels too

http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/cto/1508893526.html


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## fourspeedfish (Nov 18, 2005)

cubicinches;907353 said:


> Nothing is going to fix that except a new cylinder head. There's no goop you can put on there that's going to last any appreciable amount of time at all. He's bull$hittin you when he says he drove it for three years with that crap on there. That white crud might work on a leaking pipe way downstream, but it's not going to do anything for a hole right at the exhaust port. Get a reman head and be done with it.


I think that pretty much nails it down. Only real way to fix it would be to swap it out. Cost should be in the 500 to 700 hundred range for a reman head, gaskets, plugs, labor, ect. If you can do the wrenching and have the tools, i say do it. If you want a quote shoot me a pm.


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## fourspeedfish (Nov 18, 2005)

poncho62;907326 said:


> Straight exhaust will melt JB weld in minutes...just too much heat.


I agree, its not the spot for jb. I have used devcon once on a race head with good results.


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## Sharpshooter77 (Jul 19, 2006)

weld it back up with CAST 55 stick welding rods, I do it all the time in my shop, guys come in with either cracked, broken manifolds or heads like yours and just keep building it up with the welding rods and it closes up nice, I just had a guy come in with a 4cyl case backhoe that threw a rod thru the block, ground it out a little and welder back up GTG. you need to find someone to weld it, Gotta love older fords I have 7 of them :waving:


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## chs1993 (Nov 12, 2006)

Dude your going to have to fix it, no one is going to buy that truck if you disclose the problem, Its not a bad price for a truck with a plow you'll just have to put some money into it to get it running.


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## theonlybull (Oct 17, 2004)

cubicinches;907404 said:


> Trying to braze anything to cast iron, much less 1/8" steel, usually proves to be futile.
> 
> In my opinion, any effort or money expended to cob it up is just less time or money you have towards the correct repair... which is inevitable if you really intend to use the truck. Put a head on it and get it over with. Then you can go make money with the truck without the agony of a continually reoccurring hack job.


bronze, if done right, would be strong enough to pull a chunk out of the block. unfortunatly, not many people know how to do it properly.... as with any welding procedure..

cast iron oxy/ace rod, with the proper flux is the best. but stick rods are probably your best bet..... or a parts truck/ parts engine, and swap the head...:waving:


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

THEGOLDPRO;907169 said:


> no way it was covered, it was like that from the get go, you just didnt notice it, its your fault for not taking a better look at the truck before hand.


Aparently u did not notice the left over exhaust puddy there


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

theonlybull;910309 said:


> bronze, if done right, would be strong enough to pull a chunk out of the block.


That's true. It'll pull a chunk out right where the big crack in the cast iron is after it cools. If it was to be done right, (using the term "right" loosely here) the head would need to be put in an oven. If you're going to pull the head to put it in an oven, you might as well pull it and put it in the trash can instead. :waving:


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## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

check the junkyards for a complete engine. i bought a truck with aplow and a dump insert for 500 bucks last year had a blown motor, got one from a junk yard for 350. easier to change a motor than just a head.


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## JK-Plow (Feb 10, 2008)

I don't know about Livonia, but in the Pontiac/Auburn Hills area, there are several junk yards to look at. While replacing the head would be easy enough for you to do, you have to worry about some of that putty getting in the head. You might be better off putting a new engine in. You should be able to find one in the junkyard. Unfortunately, that would be a little harder job to do then the simple head replacement. Last time I got a part at a junk yard, I used Garvin's towing junk yard off of Opdyke Rd. Another place to check is the vehicle auction on Telegraph Rd, North of I-96. You might be able to pick up a junk car, where you can get the engine or they could direct you to an engine. A lot of the towing companies have cars that they can part out too.


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## DIRSHMAN63 (Nov 5, 2009)

go on line and look up jasper engine.com and they can give you a price for a shor block or complete block and there is a warrenty with this


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## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

it is acually easier to swap a compete engine than to do a head on one. by the time you rip it down enough to do the head you can have an engine out. i just did this a few months ago, had engine out in a lilttle over 2 hours by the time we cleaned everything up and switched some stuff over and back in it took us about 8 hours.


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## SuperdutyShane (Mar 6, 2009)

cubicinches;907366 said:


> BTW... That's not an uncommon problem with later model 460 heads when they get really rotten.


The 351's also had this problem. Between the 351 and the 460 this problem was ridiculously common.


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## danbroke (Dec 18, 2009)

didnt he say he had no $$. And a junk yard engine is chancy! Dont really now what your gettin! If it was me just get a head from a salvage yard and probably both heads and a gasket set and a repair manual. Its not that hard!


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## DieselSlug (Nov 30, 2009)

Brand new head can be had for 275...


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## danbroke (Dec 18, 2009)

DieselSlug;912747 said:


> Brand new head can be had for 275...


Thats not bad! I would go with that! As long as it held good oil pressure. And no smoke or noise.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

I talked to a Ford guy once, and he had a similar problem. Exhaust manifold studs seem to be the problem up here. I guess you have to pull the head and have a machine shop fix them.

Anyway, he pulled ONE head without pulling the intake. Unbolted everything, and slid the head out. Might be worth a shot with this truck.


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## Dissociative (Feb 28, 2007)

REAPER;907203 said:


> Coulda sprayed that crap with black paint and colored it with magic marker black and I still woulda seen it with a quick hit of a flashlight.


no kidding...how do you buy a truck that looks like someone puked paper machea all over the damn side of the motor?....that is so obvious it's not funny..

i second his comment...."welcome to the game son"....now get better at looking at what you buy...:laughing:


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## Michigansnowkin (Sep 28, 2009)

LESSON LEARNED!I should have taken the time to look over the enging better. We had bought the truck for $2600 and sold it today for $1100. I really dont have a dime to spend. I feel stupit, i dont rip people of and have never been got like this. The guys business name is ORLANDOS LAWN CARE AND BEING TOWING. There are out of Detroit, i wasnt going to put his name out there but who cares, besides he didnt care about lieng to us. Thanks everyone for the helpfull advice.


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## Michigansnowkin (Sep 28, 2009)

p.s dont buy s*** from this guy, he is a liar and con man.


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## mvhauler (Jan 26, 2009)

I think most of us have been in this boat in some form or another. Don't beat yourself up too bad ! You learned a lesson in life. Time to move on


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## Milwaukee (Dec 28, 2007)

I have heard that name and they look terrible low baller try run business.


My Uncle read this thread and realized he better buy used trucks from Florida if he want put plow on it. 


Let me know if you look to buy another truck I can inspect for you and say it good or bad.


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