# By the inch or Seasonal?



## skyjumper2 (Oct 5, 2020)

I was approached to bid one of the biggest shopping centers in my area. its about 17 acres of plowable lot and there are stores open pretty much 24 hrs so there will always be traffic and people there. they sent me a bid sheet for a price per inch, I countered with a seasonal price. I am in New Jersey so we are not guaranteed snow and considering I will have to pay to put at least one loader and two skids on site, as well as salt, I can't imagine bidding it by the inch. Are people really bidding properties this size by the inch or is this management company just clueless?


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Why can’t you bid it per inch?
I guess if they want an inch incremental pricing and you submit a seasonal, you shouldn’t be surprised if you don’t get it,

2 skids and 1 loader for a 17 acre lot seems light for a 24 hour lot imo, how will you be deicing?


----------



## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

You need to sell them on the fact that seasonal is an insurance policy on snow. 
Perhaps you could combine the idea of 
A seasonal price for say 1-50” total accumulation 
And over that it’s $x. 
You need the retainer to secure equipment 
I’ve never priced anything by the inch but what happens with daytime open ups? You want to be communicating with the client positive things not arguing about how many inches fell. Perhaps price it by the inch but pitch them on seasonal. They can compare then.


----------



## FourDiamond (Nov 23, 2011)

We do seasonals with floor and a ceiling. Under so many inches, the customer gets a prorated refund, over so many inches, there is an additional charge. As far as by the inch. we use weatherworks snowfall reports, a copy of the report goes out with in invoice. No fuss, no muss.


----------



## skyjumper2 (Oct 5, 2020)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Why can't you bid it per inch?
> I guess if they want an inch incremental pricing and you submit a seasonal, you shouldn't be surprised if you don't get it,
> 
> 2 skids and 1 loader for a 17 acre lot seems light for a 24 hour lot imo, how will you be deicing?


If I don't get it then I don't get it. I would rather stick to where I know I will make money rather than take a risk. I have four trucks that will rotate between there and a nearby apartment complex. They have the salters.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Why can't you bid it per inch?
> I guess if they want an inch incremental pricing and you submit a seasonal, you shouldn't be surprised if you don't get it,
> 
> 2 skids and 1 loader for a 17 acre lot seems light for a 24 hour lot imo, how will you be deicing?


Cuz it doesn't always snow in Jersey.


----------



## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

if they want 24 hr service, then charge by the hr and per ton for salt spread


----------



## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Disclaimer: I don’t have experience with lots that big.

However I do plow commercial accounts and have pondered and obtained seasonal vs per instance accounts with triggers and/or slot pricing for different storm totals.

1. pain in the butt to prove snow totals unless you agree on how to prove in the contract before signing. Still isn’t perfect-totals are based off radar and well weathermen rare making the decisions so...
2. To meet their need you must have equipment not common to standard contracts. You need guaranteed coin to make an investment in their safety and profitability. 
3. They want to see value. Are you better/more reliable/?? Than the average provider? Are they giving you a few days to respond to an event? No. So they must pay for you and your equipment to be there for the whole season.

My advice is to sell the safety benefit of proper equipment on site, dedicated manpower for their location, need for equipment not able to be used elsewhere or needed in general outside of their facility so you need to lease or purchase.

I would not get involved without guaranteed money to cover costs. They want you to indemnify them and provide a service 24/7. Fair to them/you is a guaranteed base rate plus a fee per service beyond a set quantity of services.


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

What about a per inch with a retainer to cover some of your fixed cost?


----------



## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Well I’m dealing with the same issues. My seasonals all want per inch prices do to very little snow last year. Well my snow insurance doubled almost tripled with zero lose reports. Without seasonals I can’t make the numbers work. Sure let me plow your lot take all the liability for free. 
I have never delt with this craziness having a mix of both. What do retainers cost percentage of seasonals. I need to cover hard costs or shutting it down after 30 plus years


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

fireside said:


> Well I'm dealing with the same issues. My seasonals all want per inch prices do to very little snow last year. Well my snow insurance doubled almost tripled with zero lose reports. Without seasonals I can't make the numbers work. Sure let me plow your lot take all the liability for free.
> I have never delt with this craziness having a mix of both. What do retainers cost percentage of seasonals. I need to cover hard costs or shutting it down after 30 plus years


It's on you to explain (sell) why you need retainers or seasonals.

After '13-'14 when we had 120" we instituted a cap for plowing on our seasonals. I had a few customers question it so I explained.

#1 We would not start charging them at push #21 (if we figured 20 pushes). We would "give" them 1 or 2 before starting to charge.
#2 I am not trying to screw them or get rich off these extra charges, I am only trying to cover my costs if there is another extreme snow year. If I don't cover my costs, I won't be able to provide the same level or possibly the service at all because I can't afford to.

Once given an explanation, they understood and had no problems.

You have to go at it with the attitude that it is a partnership where both parties are taking some risk. You have fixed costs that have to be covered in order to continue servicing them. If you can't cover those costs, they are going to have to find someone else, year after year because if their next contractor agrees to it, he will be out of business in a year or two, rinse, wash and repeat.


----------



## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Oh this is not a easy problem or solutions. We had 6” all of last year. So I understand there point but insurance cost for me have tripled this year. So with no snow really past two year insurance and fixed cost Thur the roof I just can’t do anything other than go up. The main client has been one for 30 years doing multiple facilities for him. Now add the Covid nightmare empty building who knows whst rents are being payed on leases it’s a mess! I’m at point of just shutting it all down. Can’t sell equipment do to capital gains what a mess with no good answers boy. I bought a almost full load of magic salt from a high discount from another company who closed it operations for the same reason insurance. So my bins are over flowing with salt wholly crap whst s problem


----------

