# Whats your opinion?



## mxjake387 (Oct 3, 2009)

Hey everyone, long time reader dont post too often though. 
Heres my situation that i need some opinions on. I have a 2001 f350 regular cab with 5.4. Cloth interior power windows/locks. Its in awesome condition inside and out with 79k.

I was looking around at a dealership and noticed the guy had a 2003 f250 with a 6.0. Its ext cab with leather, power windows locks seats. its got 78k the interior has some wear on the seats arm rest and steering wheel. outside its got some dents and scratchs nothing that cant be fixed though

Hes asking 15.5 i made an offer of my truck and 4k, he said my truck and 6k. What does everything think would be a fair deal and if i should give my truck up for a 6.0?


----------



## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

run away from that 6 leaker as fast as you can.


----------



## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

First, id say you would be wronge to assume its junk. Thats just following what someone else says. 03 and 04s were not the best years we'll say. Theres things to check over when looking for a used 6.0 with miles. It would be wise to bring some sort of monitor to explore whats going on underneith the hood. Oil temps and coolant temps should not be no more than 15 degrees apart. That will indicate lots of things. Under normal conditions oil should be 190-196 while coolant should be 190-194. I know people with 03 that had terrible terrible luck and some that have over 150K with zero problems. Also, if the truck checks out clean, then you could do things yourself like delete the egr, flush the coolant system and replace with cat-1 coolant, coolant filter and you would have a newer better version 7.3


----------



## 91AK250 (Nov 28, 2007)

keep the 5.4 IMO


----------



## kevlars (Feb 11, 2011)

I don't know about being a newer, better version of the 7.3!!?? That sounds like a stretch to me. But, I do agree that there are things that can be done to the 6.0 to make it more reliable.

kevlars


----------



## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

I'd keep the truck you have.


----------



## Glenn Lawn Care (Sep 28, 2009)

6.0L are very nice trucks.... Ask the guy what he fixed under warranty because diesels aren't cheap to fix!


----------



## Tony350 (Feb 6, 2010)

I love owning a diesel I actually own a 6.0 diesel and have had great luck with it. However I have owned it since new and take care of it. The first thing is do you really need a diesel? If your 5.4 is getting the job done why upgrade. Might as well do something else with the four grand. Plus if you keep your truck at least you know what you have in your truck. As far as knowing what has been done and what it needs. Buying a used one you are kinda in the dark. However if you feel you need a diesel now I wouldn't be afraid of a 6.0. 

If you are looking I would shop around and see what the used market has that is the best way to check prices in your area. If you can afford an 05 or newer there are a few extra features as well. Good luck let us know what you decide.


----------



## Too Stroked (Jan 1, 2010)

I work for a company with a fleet of 10 F-350's ranging from a 1996 to a 2010. So we have everything from 7.3's, to 6.0's to one 6.4. Of the three 6.0's we have, the 2003 is an absolute nightmare. 2003 was the hands down worst year for that motor and you're seriously taking your life (and wallet) in your hands to buy one. I'd walk away - quickly. Sure, everything can be fixed - but do you want to spend the time and money?


----------



## mxjake387 (Oct 3, 2009)

Thanks guys! Im going to the dealership tomorrow to talk to they guy and see how much lower he'll go, and get some more information. Ill keep you updated!


----------



## erkoehler (Sep 25, 2008)

An 03 w/ that low of mileage on a 6.0L would scare me, I'd personally be more comfortable if it had 100+.....then you know it has run!


----------



## DIRISHMAN (Jul 30, 2010)

JMO for the money your tryin to save now will only be spent on repair down the line like fuel rail repair as well as lifters that faill in that year. So just like EKohler says Run and save the money heck for that price there is alot of V10 for better than that plus more power like the deisel but when it turns to 3 am and you need fuel gas is eveywhere unless you have a portable tank.Just somthing to think about if your lookin for more power... Good luckThumbs Up


----------



## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

Written from a diesel form

Here is the deal with the 6.0. Any good tuner (person writing your tunes) is not going to give you a tune that is going to tear up your truck. There are trucks all over the place running 400-420 rwhp with 750-800 rwtq all day long without problems.

Yes the 6.0 is known to blow head gaskets. This is why it happens. The Ford Gold coolant contains silicates. The silicates are not able to handle high EGT's generated by a good load or relatively high boost when they run through the EGR cooler. They break down into a gell like sludge and fall out of suspension. This crud gets caught up in the tiny coolant passageways of the oil cooler. As the cooler clogs up it restricts coolant flow to the egr cooler. Now the egr cooler doesn't have enough coolant to carry off the heat generated by high EGT's. The limited amount of coolant in the egr cooler flash boils causing high pressure in the cooling system and the truck pukes coolant from the degass bottle due to the pressure. (it has to go somewhere)
Your uninformed Powerstroke owner is not monitoring his coolant temps and oil temps so he doesn't know whats going on and he keeps driving it this way. The problem gets worse, the pressure causes the egr cooler to rupture. Now the egr cooler is leaking coolant into the intake manifold which then runs into the cylinders. Again the high combustion temps cause the coolant to vaporize. This causes unacceptably high cylinder pressure, the TTY head bolts stretch due to the add'l pressure and there go your head gaskets.

Ok now you know the problem. Here's the cure. Get a good engine monitoring solution like the Edge Insight so that you can monitor your ECT and EOT. If those temps get more than 15* apart with normal cruising when at normal operating temperature your oil cooler is clogging up. Rebuild it now to prevent all that down stream damage from occurring. Flush that Ford Gold coolant crap out of your engine with a couple bottles of Restore. This is made specifically to clean out that silicate residue. Now refill it with a silicate free Cat EC-1 rated ELC coolant. This removes the silicates that clog the oil cooler from the equation. If you live in an area where you don't have smog inspections delete the egr system. If you can't delete it replace the egr cooler with the cooler manufactured by Bulletproof Diesel. This is vastly superior to the Ford oem egr cooler and it will not fail on you. If you find that you need to replace head gaskets replace the TTY head bolts with ARP studs and use black onyx (Victor Reinz) head gaskets. If you have to replace the egr cooler always replace the oil cooler. That is the source of the problem.

Now that you have addressed the common problems that scare the he11 out of people, get an SCT tuner (i like the X3) and install some custom tunes and drive the heck out of it. DO NOT baby it. The Powerstroke hates this and will rebel with turbo issues.

Turbo issues are also common repair points with the 6.0. People like to complain that it's because the VGT turbos are pieces of junk. This is not so. The VGT vanes in the turbo need to be exercised regularly. This means making them go through their full range of motion. So put your foot in it regularly and let it see some full boost runs. That will keep your VGT vanes from getting all sooted up and freezing up because of the soot. Again, that is what happens when you baby it. Put your foot in it and you will have less problems. Lay out of it and try to milk it for mileage like you would a gasser and you're going to have turbo issues. Don't let it sit either. That is also the kiss of death to the turbo. The unison ring rusts up and again you have turbo problems. So now that you know you need to give your turbo a regular work out to keep it happy, give it a proper cool down as well. Just whipping into your parking place and shutting it down will lead to coking the bearings and again major turbo issues. Running a good synthetic oil will help here immensely because it handles heat so much better and resists coking. But always let your turbo have time to cool down. This is one of the reasons you need a Pyrometer (EGT gauge). Let the EGT come down to 350* before shutting your truck off. This only takes a couple of minutes, especially if you take it easy on it for the last couple minutes of your trip. If this is too much hassle for you get a turbo timer that will automatically delay shutdown when you turn off the key to allow the turbo to cool down.

Injectors. Ford's HEUI injection system fires the injectors with High Pressure Oil, to the tune of 4,000psi at Wide Open Throttle. Maintenance is critical here so you can not let your oil maintenance slide like you can on a gasser. It will kill your injectors. The injectors also are known to suffer from something that we call stiction. That is when the oil side plunger of the injector hangs up or sticks when cold until the truck warms up. I believe this is caused by varnish buildup that is common to dino oils, especially those containing paraffin. Using a good synthetic oil will take care of that because it actually cleans the engine as it lubricates. If you do find yourself with some injector stiction add a couple of bottles of Rev-X to your oil. It has cleared up 99.9% of the trucks it has been used on. 2 bottles run around $70. A new injector is about $250-$290. Be anal about keeping your oil clean and fresh and changing your fuel filters regularly. The other thing that kills injectors is low fuel pressure. The fuel pressure needs to stay above 45psi at all times and is typically set around 52 psi from the factory. Well the factory fuel pressure regulator spring is weak and looses it's tension over time and can't maintain adequate fuel pressure. There is an updated rebuild kit that uses a better, stronger spring. Installing this spring will bring your fuel pressure up to about 62 psi and solve that. Get a fuel pressure gauge. It's important.

So that covers the frequent complaints with the 6.0. They are all well known at this point as are the solutions. Does it suck we have to fix Ford's blunders? Heck yes it does. But again we know how and once done you will have a very reliable robust truck that is well worth the effort. So address the issues as you can and enjoy your truck. It is a dynamite vehicle. I love mine.


----------



## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

kevlars;1323807 said:


> I don't know about being a newer, better version of the 7.3!!?? That sounds like a stretch to me.


Yeah theres no way thats the case. The two are not in the same ball park even.

As for the OP and whether or not to buy a 6.0. Theres no way I'm doing that.
I know far too many folks that have had real bad luck with them, and not nearly enough guys that have had good luck with them.


----------



## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

BPS#1;1325089 said:


> Yeah theres no way thats the case. The two are not in the same ball park even.
> 
> As for the OP and whether or not to buy a 6.0. Theres no way I'm doing that.
> I know far too many folks that have had real bad luck with them, and not nearly enough guys that have had good luck with them.


Troll ....


----------



## DieselLover (Sep 20, 2011)

keep the 5.4 have plowed with both the 6.0 and the 5.4 5.4 works just as well 6.0 are junk


----------



## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

ultimate plow;1325113 said:


> Troll ....


So because I disagree with your OPINION on an engine model that makes me a troll?

What a crock of poo.


----------



## Sno What (Oct 23, 2006)

I have / had 2 , 2005 6.0 L trucks and haven't had any issues. I had a F350 and still have an Ex. I traded the 6.0 L in on a 5.4 L. It had plenty of power to push snow around, but wouldn't hold 65 MPH on the highway without matting it. Plus I was getting 7 MPG plowing, opposed to 14 MPG with the 6.0L.


----------



## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

5.4 is gutless!!


----------



## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

ultimate plow;1325113 said:


> Troll ....


So you like your 6.0 **** eh? Your one of the few. My July build 03 had $12,800 in warranty work in 136,000 miles and the OASIS report was near 20 pages long. Mine almost killed me and my family more than once and i was actually interviewed by Reuters about it. After this Ford gave me an extended warranty to 150,000 miles. You could not pull out onto a busy highway without taking the chance of getting hit in the arse. It ran for **** until it got to about 1600 RPM which would be fine for an Automatic as an auto is ALWAYS revving, but mine was a 6 speed as i cannot stand an auto shifting up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down all day when i am towing which is what my truck did 90% of the time. The block and heads where without issue but i had 5 EGR valves, 2 EGR Coolers, 1 HPOP, 1 Turbo Actuator, and 2 sets of injectors which where on the way out again when it went to the Denver Auto Auction as well as NUMEROUS reflashes. Before you say it was a dealer issue it was to 4 different dealers in Florida where i was working, 2 different dealers in Wisconsin and 2 dealers in Montana. Ask ANY Ford tech if they would own one and the answer would not only be no but HELL NO!! I am personal friends with the 1st powerstroke certified tech at a Ford dealer in Montana and he owns 2 - 7.3's, 1 beater and one for road trips. He was the one that suggested i get rid of my 6-leaker while i could. Both Cummins conversion places, i here in Kalispell and 1 in Great Falls are booked out months replacing 6 leakers with 24V Cummins motors. Yeah you can spend $1500 to $2000 and MAYBE get a few more miles out of your 6.0chit but in the end you still have a piece of **** that won't pass emissions in states that require testing.

Oh and by the way, i have owned 4 7.3's and NEVER had any major issues out of any of them. 1 had nearly 300,000 miles when it went down the road.


----------



## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

17 6.0 powered ford pickups, and not one made it to 100,000 miles without major engine repairs.
4 had engines replaced before 60,000 miles. 
all 17 of those trucks were replaced with ford gas engine trucks, and the newest now has over 250,000 miles on it. 
and the other 13 7.3 powered pickups all have over 400,000 miles on then and all still run like new.


----------



## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

tjctransport;1326013 said:


> 17 6.0 powered ford pickups, and not one made it to 100,000 miles without major engine repairs.
> 4 had engines replaced before 60,000 miles.
> all 17 of those trucks were replaced with ford gas engine trucks, and the newest now has over 250,000 miles on it.
> and the other 13 7.3 powered pickups all have over 400,000 miles on then and all still run like new.


Yup! Also talk to your local EMS crews. Most here have dumped their 6.0's and went to Medium Duties with Cat's or are keeping their 7.3 powered units beyond what they normally would.

Chester Co. joins suit over 6-liter ambulance engines

Read more: http://www.heraldonline.com/2008/01/...#ixzz1aLBXnYmL

The answer is, it depends. WE operate a fleet of 35 ambulances and 14 support vehicles. Historically we had operated Ford Type III ambulances equipped with the 6.9 litre diesel engines. They were bullet proof and would run forever. In 2004 Ford introduced the 6.0 litre engine to meet new EPA requirements and the problems began. We had purchased 12 2005 & 2006Ford Type III ambulances and two 2005 Ford Excursions with the 6.0 engine. The problems began shortly thereafter at about 30,000 miles with engine failures amongst other problems including turbo, higher pressure oil pumps & EGR failures. Ford introduced an extended warranty that gave an extra 24 months (60 months) and or 80,000 miles (180,000 miles)additional warranty at a price of almost $4,000/vehicle Canadian, which we purchased. I was criticized at the time because of the cost but it has paid for itself several times over. Every one of the 14 vehicles with the exception of 2 has had at least one engine failure. Some have had 5 engines in 150,000 miles. A recent example was a truck that had 150,000 miles and was on its second engine, which failed and was totally replaced under warranty. 1800 miles later the new engine threw a rod as the vehicle pulled into a hospital. It was returned to the dealer and another new engine installed. The new engine started once and never ran again. Another engine was installed (#5). Our vehicles are not abused and we monitor speed live with an AVL/GPS system. In 2006 we started to buy Chev Dura Max powered Type III's. WE currently have 11 2010 units on order for December & March delivery, which will bring the number of Ford ambulances left in the fleet to 3. The oldest Chev's have over 100,000 miles on them now with no engine failures. Was our experience an abnormality. Well Ford has sued Navistar, the manufacturer of the 6.0 and Navistar countersued for non payment. In the US the ambulance industry filed a class action suit against Ford which the industry won, but details of the settlement are sketchy. Ford is not offering diesel engines in the 2010 E model, only V10 gas. For 2012 there will no longer be a Ford E series van. In 2008 Ford replaced the 6.0 with the 6.4 (another Navistar engine) which they currently offer in the F series trucks. It has not been uncommon to go into the dealership and see a new pickup just delivered on the hoist undergoing an engine replacement. For 2011 Ford is introducing a new 6.7 litre diesel which Ford designed and is manufacturing in house. The industry has been leaving Ford in droves, the latest post I saw today was that FDNY EMS (City of New York) are moving from Ford Type I's to a different chassis, rumored to be Dodge. FDNY was running diesel Ford Excursions but have just purchased 80 Chev Diesel pickups for their Batallion Chiefs and EMS Supervisors, which will replace the Excursions. And Ford was the only manufacturer who did not go to the public trough for a bail out. Figure that one out!

http://www.professionalcarsociety.or...ead.php?t=1431


----------



## Brickman (Jun 17, 2002)

What happened to the cheerleader troll now?


----------



## vegaman04 (Dec 12, 2007)

The only major issue on the 7.3l were the oil pans get rusty after years of service correct?


----------



## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

Okay you had bad luck with them. So be it. Theres thousands and thousands of people out there still driving them. You dont hear of the people that have good luck with them. Somebody has bad luck with theirs and the word spreads. There are weak points to fix with ANYTHING. I enjoy my truck. As do plenty and plenty of others. I was helping the original poster out. Not feeding him storys.


----------



## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

mjstef;1325753 said:


> So you like your 6.0 **** eh? Your one of the few. My July build 03 had $12,800 in warranty work in 136,000 miles and the OASIS report was near 20 pages long. Mine almost killed me and my family more than once and i was actually interviewed by Reuters about it. After this Ford gave me an extended warranty to 150,000 miles. You could not pull out onto a busy highway without taking the chance of getting hit in the arse. It ran for **** until it got to about 1600 RPM which would be fine for an Automatic as an auto is ALWAYS revving, but mine was a 6 speed as i cannot stand an auto shifting up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down all day when i am towing which is what my truck did 90% of the time. The block and heads where without issue but i had 5 EGR valves, 2 EGR Coolers, 1 HPOP, 1 Turbo Actuator, and 2 sets of injectors which where on the way out again when it went to the Denver Auto Auction as well as NUMEROUS reflashes. Before you say it was a dealer issue it was to 4 different dealers in Florida where i was working, 2 different dealers in Wisconsin and 2 dealers in Montana. Ask ANY Ford tech if they would own one and the answer would not only be no but HELL NO!! I am personal friends with the 1st powerstroke certified tech at a Ford dealer in Montana and he owns 2 - 7.3's, 1 beater and one for road trips. He was the one that suggested i get rid of my 6-leaker while i could. Both Cummins conversion places, i here in Kalispell and 1 in Great Falls are booked out months replacing 6 leakers with 24V Cummins motors. Yeah you can spend $1500 to $2000 and MAYBE get a few more miles out of your 6.0chit but in the end you still have a piece of **** that won't pass emissions in states that require testing.
> 
> Oh and by the way, i have owned 4 7.3's and NEVER had any major issues out of any of them. 1 had nearly 300,000 miles when it went down the road.


Another un educated 6.0 person. blah blah blah


----------



## CornerStoneProp (Nov 22, 2009)

an ambulance will idle alot. The 6.0 likes to be run and run hard. If you let a 6.0 idle too long it will not build up enough heat to "burn off" the crap in the EGR leading to many issues. If you have a 6.0 and perform all maintenance on time as well as actually run it the way it was designed it will give many years of good performance and service.


----------



## DIRISHMAN (Jul 30, 2010)

HELLO MR MONTANA MAN (KALLISPELL MT) MY UNCLE LIVES IN CLANCY AND HAS 2 SHOPS IN HELENAThumbs Up


----------



## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

ultimate plow;1326228 said:


> Another un educated 6.0 person. blah blah blah


Typical answer from a McHenry County person. I whole lot of arrogance there when Chicago started to invade years ago. God i'm glad i got out of that chithole back in "99"  Hell-I-Nois is one of the most broke states in the country and i saw the writing on the wall. Spent 30 years too long there. Embarrassed to call Marengo home. As far as uneducated i know diesels pretty well. Turned wrenches for Bakley's, Ze-Corp and Geskes for many years. I run my 7.3's the same way i ran the 6-leaker and for some reason they don't cause any issues????


----------



## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

mjstef;1326561 said:


> Typical answer from a McHenry County person. I whole lot of arrogance there when Chicago started to invade years ago. God i'm glad i got out of that chithole back in "99" Hell-I-Nois is one of the most broke states in the country and i saw the writing on the wall. Spent 30 years too long there. Embarrassed to call Marengo home. As far as uneducated i know diesels pretty well. Turned wrenches for Bakley's, Ze-Corp and Geskes for many years. I run my 7.3's the same way i ran the 6-leaker and for some reason they don't cause any issues????


yeeeeaa. Again all I was doing was informing the original poster. Other than that we know what a 7.3 is. A 6.0 is a great motor as well with some tweeks.....


----------



## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

ultimate plow;1326593 said:


> yeeeeaa. Again all I was doing was informing the original poster. Other than that we know what a 7.3 is. A 6.0 is a great motor as well with some tweeks.....


But why steer anyone to a powerplant that is EXTREMELY likely to cause them issues instead of steering them towards something dependable?? Remember the 6.0's are all out of Warranty now so if it goes tits up the OP will have to foot the bill. The odds are against getting a good 6.0. This is a FACT.............


----------



## Sno What (Oct 23, 2006)

One other point to remember is fleet trucks vs. personal trucks. I'd be willing to bet a fleet truck takes a lot more abuse than someone's personal truck. Or that would be my personal experience with being a delivery driver. Some guys don't give a crap and beat the tar out of what ever their driving - esp. if its not theirs.


----------



## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

vegaman04;1326195 said:


> The only major issue on the 7.3l were the oil pans get rusty after years of service correct?


correct. rusty oil pans and cps failures. some of them also had bad fuel pedals, but the recall last year should have replaced any that were not owner replaced.


----------



## mxjake387 (Oct 3, 2009)

wow looks like you guys are really going at it i just skimmed through a few posts lol. Test drove the truck today.. wasnt too bad engine lights on radio fuse was blown and a small clunk in the front. the dealer said hed fix everything before i bought it. I did notice it had a decent amount of turbo lag but a tuner should fix that. Ultimate plow has some really good information thanks man! its making feel alot more secure if i do go through with this. Going to bring my truck to him tomorrow so he can drive it and everything ill keep you posted


----------

