# Tracks or Wheels for Snow Management



## SCbilly (Jun 1, 2021)

Hello all,

I’m new to the forum and new to needing to manage snow so I’m hoping someone here can offer some sound advice to keep me out of trouble.

We have about 1/3 mile of road/driveway that needs to be kept clear in Haines, Alaska. For part of the stretch we’re looking at 16% grade. In an ideal world I’d like a machine that is also useful around the property in the summer when the ground is pretty soft. My thought is to get a tracked machine with high flow and a snow blower. Any strong opinion out there? I’ve heard lots of people argue for wheels with chains but I’ve run into an equal number that advocate tracks with or without removable studs...which leaves me still undecided.

Currently on the table I have a 2021 Cat 259d3 and also a 1998 Cat 257b2 with low hours for a fair price. I’d also appreciate any thoughts you have on those machines.

Thanks for your time!


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## SilverPine (Dec 7, 2018)

My thoughts based on my experiences.

Winter tires>winter tracks>tires>tracks

Tracks are better in snow, tires are better on ice.
No experience with studs or chains.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Tires and chains and have your tires filled with calcium








Trax become very slippery on ice ,hard pack or a frozen road especially when pushing snow off to the side of that "16% grade. "


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Tracks


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Tracks


Are for floating on the snow.


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## sublime68charge (Dec 28, 2007)

if your gonna have the snowblower for getting rid of the snow the tracks should due fine as you dont need to push the snow just to move the machine and let the blower due the work, On your 16% grade is that up/down? from where the machine is at? if its down then on the first pass the machine weight helps push you down. If you have to climb up that might be different. The tracks will be nice in the soft ground to help you float for other work. Gravel road or asphalt? 

best of luck.


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## SCbilly (Jun 1, 2021)

sublime68charge said:


> if your gonna have the snowblower for getting rid of the snow the tracks should due fine as you dont need to push the snow just to move the machine and let the blower due the work, On your 16% grade is that up/down? from where the machine is at? if its down then on the first pass the machine weight helps push you down. If you have to climb up that might be different. The tracks will be nice in the soft ground to help you float for other work. Gravel road or asphalt?
> 
> best of luck.


It's 16% down on the first pass and I figure I can always run back up my clean track to make a second pass. The road is gravel and decently flat side to side.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SCbilly said:


> It's 16% down on the first pass and I figure I can always run back up my clean track to make a second pass. The road is gravel and decently flat side to side.


Does that mean it's 32% on the way up?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> Tires and chains and have your tires filled with calcium
> View attachment 217430
> 
> Trax become very slippery on ice ,hard pack or a frozen road especially when pushing snow off to the side of that "16% grade. "


Narrow winter tyre with chains for a 16% grade wood bee my choice. PSI to the ground is needed..


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

JD 450 wide track, blade windrows, and it can run a back-hoe.

you know for when you can’t wait for things to dry up … and you can regrade the road in the summer,

I have a Q how is your back?
Because running tracks on a frozen surface is a harsh ride.
And if your side hill it at all it’ll want to slide off like yer on skates

Putting traction devices on rubber tracks sure is a quick way to wear out a set of tracks.

One more question how old are you?
maybe awalk behind snowblower will fit the bill


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> I have a Q how is your back?
> Because running tracks on a frozen surface is a harsh ride.


We had an S650 and T650 plowing at the same time. I'd take the tracks all day long for smooth ride. The wheeled machine was as bouncy as an Ohioan bouncy house.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Operator error.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Tracks


JD agrees with me.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> Operator error.


I was trying to stack to the top of the light pole.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I was trying to stack to the top of the light pole.


i Hurd on the playground that can be like bouncing in a bouncy house.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Hydromaster said:


> JD 450 wide track, blade windrows, and it can run a back-hoe.
> 
> you know for when you can't wait for things to dry up … and you can regrade the road in the summer,
> 
> ...


You talking about a 450 dozer with steel tracks? you ever slide down a hill sideways with one? Its pretty scary, atleast the first time I did it after that it was kind of a rush.


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

SCbilly said:


> In an ideal world I'd like a machine that is also useful around the property in the summer when the ground is pretty soft.


unfortunately, as far as wheeled vs tracks what makes a machine better for winter use will make it worse for summer use and vice-versa. Just like @BUFF said, you want to put the most weight you can to the ground in as small an area as you can for good winter traction. Tall skinny tires should be your best bet for traction in icy conditions. Tracks, especially the extra-wide tracks of the 257 will make it harder for your machine to hook up. FWIW, I don't think our tracked skids could hold a 16% slope on ice (We also just run regular dirt tracks). They stick like a mountain goat on dirt but I'm amazed how bad they slip and slide on ice.



SCbilly said:


> I'd also appreciate any thoughts you have on those machines


have a lot of seat time in a 259 and have spent a few shifts in the 7 series tracked machines. Pretty sure they are the same machine with different tracks, Cat sources the ASV tracks for the 7 series. The 257 tracks offer a softer ride and better floatation in mud(again, bad in snow) but are harder to maintain, cost more, and won't appreciate severe duty work. The 259 is simpler and more robust. Harsher ride but it's a skidsteer so it's all sorta relative. Either will be less "bouncy" than a wheeled machine


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

LapeerLandscape said:


> You talking about a 450 dozer with steel tracks? you ever slide down a hill sideways with one? Its pretty scary, atleast the first time I did it after that it was kind of a rush.


yes,

slid a few times, there was a high pucker factor
every time.

Yeah thrill factor might've played into it as I thought about it happening just before et did

With snow cats we used ta see how far down the mountain we could slide ,,,sideways

good times, yes
A harsh ride, every time..


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Dedicated snow tracks make all the difference. Just like dedicated snow tyres.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I was trying to stack to the top of the light pole.


Stay on topic fella he's asking about tires and tracks not Snoweratorer's...


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I prefer tracks over tires...,.. but that's not what I'm saying or is it?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Dedicated snow tracks make all the difference. Just like dedicated snow tyres.


Tracks on a steep grade on a slick surface just doesn't sound like a swell idea.... when they break free it'll be a seat sucking ride until you can get it stopped.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Would tracks have more than 100% traction?


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

1olddogtwo said:


> I prefer tracks over tires...,.. but that's not what I'm saying or is it?


This


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Would tracks have more than 100% traction?


If they were loaded up with Woody's picks.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

BUFF said:


> If they were loaded up with Woody's picks.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

https://juneau.craigslist.org/hvo/d/juneau-volvo-g940-graders/7328483788.html


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> https://juneau.craigslist.org/hvo/d/juneau-volvo-g940-graders/7328483788.html
> View attachment 217459


600% traction?


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Used 4x4 truck with plow or V-plow with chains on the tires. Then buy the used Cat with tracks for your summer projects. You could always pick up a plow or blower for the Cat later, and then you would have 2 options and a backup plan.


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