# Question about snowthrowers



## snowsnothing (Nov 25, 2008)

First off I'm new to the site and snow removal. I'm considering getting into some residential snow removal but don't know much about it. I have a landscape management business with about 90 full time customers. I'm located in Cincinnati Ohio where it doesn't snow very often and when it does it's usually not much. I do know that when I was a teenager [ I'm 30 now] my father had a 1/2 ton truck with a plow and did some snow removal. He didn't like it, sold the truck, and we havent touched any snow removal since. I'm older now and want to make some extra cash in the winter months. I have several Walker mowers at my disposal that I could purchase the 42" two stage snowthrower to remove snow. I would only be doing residential driveways since my entire customer base is residential. I'm just wondering if the whole snowthrower thing is a bad idea since I don't ever see anyone but homeowners using them. I'm also curious as to how much I could charge for this service. I was reading some other threads about how much guys charge to plow driveways with a truck and plow but nothing relateing to snowthrowing.


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## kashman (Jan 13, 2004)

the only time a price changes is if they ask for special stuff 30 dollar drive is 30 if you do it by hand truck or blower. now if you have a truck and they ask for it 2 be done by hand the price gos up.


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## snowsnothing (Nov 25, 2008)

Do you guys think the whole snowthrower idea is good, bad, or doesn't really matter?


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## kashman (Jan 13, 2004)

id just get a 1 stage blower 7hp it will clean anything you need 2 stage clog 2 much for me


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## Smitty58 (Dec 23, 2003)

I'm just north of Cincinnati and here is my take. Been plowing for 5 years mostly commercial. The commercial business is great if you have a plow because they want it plowed sometimes as little as 1 inch. For residentials that is not the case, most people will just drive over it unless we get a 4 or 5 inch snowfall. Even then it's not too good doing residentials ,but if we get a big one which is kind of rare in these parts as you know ,then everyone wants you to do their drive. That's when residentials payoff. Pricing for a normal 2 car wide 40 foot drive is on an avg $30 - $35. It is a good addition to your lawn care business so I would say go for it ,you never know when we will get the big one. Also there are plow companies you can hook up with to do just sidewalk work if you want to work. The guy I work with uses a few guys for sidewalks only ,but your best bang for the buck is just doing residentials. A normal drive will only take you 10-15 minutes with a blower. Good luck.


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## snowsnothing (Nov 25, 2008)

Thanx for the advice guys. I have a 2 stage walk behind snow thrower that I don't really like to use. Seems like if the snow is real dry and powdery it works great. Most of the time in my area the snow is wet and heavy. The problem with my walk behind thrower is it doesn't seem to have enough weight to dig down and scrape the drive clean. If the snow is more than a few inches and it's wet it takes me forever to do my own drive, much less my customers. I was thinking that the 42" two stage unit for my Walker mower would weigh alot more plus it would have the weight of the tractor pushing it. I just want to make sure I don't tell too many people I can clear their drives and create a nightmare for myself!


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## GreenManEnvy (Nov 7, 2007)

snowsnothing;649252 said:


> I just want to make sure I don't tell too many people I can clear their drives and create a nightmare for myself!


Get comfortable with it in your own driveway, and then you can figure the area and time it, and it will give you a good idea of what it will take you to do the job.


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## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

Hmmmm. Snow blower to do driveways.....Way too much work for the money. Think about it this way. How long does it take to do a driveway with a blower 30 minutes, 45? for a typical 2 car. Now your outside with snow and ice blowing on you for 30-45 minutes, you still have to unload your blower, loaded it back up and drive to the next locations. So, maybe 50-60 minutes a house for $25-$30.

How many houses do you think you can do after a storm? 4 hours, 5 hours before your frozen up and can't think straight. 

If your going down this road consider it a specialty. Go after driveways that are stamped concert or brick or this new goofy stamped asphalt. Then you can up charge a bunch because no one really has a plow with a rubber or poly tip.

If you were in my area I'd probably flip you 5 or 6 mini-mansions at 50-75 a piece.


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## MAGNUM SERVICES (Nov 25, 2008)

I just bought a used Craftsmen 24 in. 5 hp 2 stage snowblower from a lawn customer and live in Covington,Ky. so I understand how little snow we get here but everybody is predicting heavy snow every where this year. I just got tired of shoveling sidewalks and residential driveways so now I will let the machine do it. I charge $ 40.00 per hr. for anything I do by hand and have gone up to $75.00 per hr. for anything done with the truck and plow. The things to think about are 1 How will you transport a Walker mower with the snowblower attachment to your customers sites? 2 If it breaks down how much of a struggle will it be to get loaded up to take it to get repaired? 3 At 42 in. will it fit down sidewalks or just driveways only? 4 Snowblowers throw snow and does somebody make a cab to keep the snow off of you?


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## keitha (Dec 30, 2001)

*Snowblower*

I can appreciate you wanting to get the most bang for buck 
out of your Walker.
But as was mentioned moving your machine, possibly a cab
and the shear cost of the attachment it self.
What kind of payback will you get for the effort expended?
What is the consistancy of your snow? Not many blowers work real well with "wet"
snow.
Now on the other hand. What do you have for a truck now?
Could you use the money for the blower to upgrade or add a blade to what you have now?
Good luck whatever you decide.

Keith


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

I have a two stage Troy-Built 24" blower that we use in the downtown core where streets are extremely narrow. Often too narrow for a plow truck. The last snowfall of 10cm my Toronto truck did 22 driveways in 9 hours with that blower. That included travel time etc. 

For standard driveways I'm getting $500 to $550 for seasonal with the blower. 

Last year This blower went through anything and I mean anything. It cut ice up and spit it out like nothing. Wet heavy snow went through without a problem. Now, here is the trick to wet heavy snow... Use some kind of spray... I use "Snow Shooter" which is kind of an oil type spray. I guess something like Fluid Film. It helps keep snow from sticking to the auger or shoot.

Hope this helps.


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## MAGNUM SERVICES (Nov 25, 2008)

*driveway doctor*

What horsepower is your snow blower ? I just bought a 5 hp. 24 in. 2 stage blower to use for the first time and can't wait for snow. Does your use chains or wheel weights ?


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

MAGNUM SERVICES;652168 said:


> What horsepower is your snow blower ? I just bought a 5 hp. 24 in. 2 stage blower to use for the first time and can't wait for snow. Does your use chains or wheel weights ?


I believe mine is a 5hp also. I use chains, made a HUGE difference, I highly recommend getting them.


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

Don't let Dano hear you talk about that Sno Shooter stuff. I've read a number of other threads where they either talk about Fluid Film or Pam cooking oil. According to Dano, don't get the 2 mixed up!!


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## bakerc8 (Jun 11, 2008)

get a blad for your walker


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## bosman (Oct 20, 2008)

i'm w/ baker, get a blade, way cheaper, less maintenance, and no snow blowing in your face


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## MAGNUM SERVICES (Nov 25, 2008)

drivewaydoctor, Where did you find chains for your snow blower? My snow blower tire size is 4.10-6 and am looking for a set of chains for mine . Any idea who sells Fluid Film or Sno Shooter as I have never seen neither product before around the Greater Cincinnati,Oh. /Northern Ky. area?


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## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

Fluid Film can be bought at most John Deere dealers, or Mcmaster Carr, or e-bay on the internet


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## MAGNUM SERVICES (Nov 25, 2008)

Rc2505 Thanks for the info on fluid film and I will check the Deere dealer near my house. Thanks, Keith


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## plownoob (Aug 14, 2008)

cheapest way I found. Go to live.com. search for "wii". Click the ebay link that comes up in the sponsored sites box. Should say 30% off. Once you get to ebay, search for fluid film. Believe kellsports has the best price. You can buy 2x1 gallon cans for $74.50 with free shipping. Later on, when you get the 30% back, final price ends up being $26 a gal. Make sure you see the 30% cashback logo and you have to pay with paypal. You have to have a live cashback account to. Worth the hassles if its stuff you need anyways.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

MAGNUM SERVICES;653932 said:


> drivewaydoctor, Where did you find chains for your snow blower? My snow blower tire size is 4.10-6 and am looking for a set of chains for mine . Any idea who sells Fluid Film or Sno Shooter as I have never seen neither product before around the Greater Cincinnati,Oh. /Northern Ky. area?


I got my chains from Alpine Equipment which is just around the corner from me. I'm not sure if they ship or not.

http://www.alpinelawn.ca

Hope this helps.


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## d8on27 (Nov 19, 2007)

We do 50+ residential city driveways and walks, snowblowers only. Average is two car driveway, interior small sidewalk and stoop for $30. Price up or down accordingly. My wife and I do 4+ an hour on a tight route. I did it by myself once last year and did around 3 an hour. We use the big 20-21" single stage Toro's, 3650 or the new 421Q. Snapper and Honda also make good models. Lift them in and out of the back of the truck. They run $800 new but you can find used ones in great shape. 

25 accounts is a decent number for a two man crew, I'd feel pretty comfortable doing 18 or so myself. You can get these done in 6 hours or so and not be overwelmed. After 6 or so hours everything will be soaked and heavy, and you'll start to get tired. 

Plan on making two trips for bigger snow events. We double charge at 6 inches and run the route twice.
On those big events nobody's working or going to school so you should be able to find some help pretty easily.

This is easy, low overhead, good paying work. Tweak everything to make things easier and better paying for you. It's also a great service for your clients and these folks will absolutely love you for it. One of our clients sent our contract back this year wrote a note on it saying "You guys are the freaking bomb!' on it. I love it and have a lot of fun. I mean who dosen't like playing in the snow?


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## Exact Services (Oct 11, 2008)

[email protected];659650 said:


> "...snip....25 accounts is a decent number for a two man crew, I'd feel pretty comfortable doing 18 or so myself. You can get these done in 6 hours or so and not be overwelmed. After 6 or so hours everything will be soaked and heavy, and you'll start to get tired.
> 
> Plan on making two trips for bigger snow events. We double charge at 6 inches and run the route twice.. ....snip......


[email protected]

Are your contract customers all set to be driveway cleared by 7:30 am? I have 2 full season contracts now and I am thinking about limiting my early morning commitment to less than 8 accounts or give a discount for clearing after 10am?

You say you double charge at 6 inches and run the route twice? Can you clarify? 

I'm a one man show here and my wife is on standby back up [at less than half of my production rate] and I have a sub who isn't excited at all about filling in. 

*I'm really thinking about advertising on my next flyer run unlimited monthly snow clearing for $90 per month. Pay for Jan before Dec 15th and only get December for only a 25% of a full months service. What do you think? * 

However.......... .........I don't want to go back to the same account more than twice in a 24 hour period. How do I state this on my flyers contracts etc. but still imply unlimited coverage for the month.

Also I'm finding that listing the charge at 1"-3" ......then.....4-7" etc. is getting tedious and I'm looking for a streamlined simple approach. I'm thinking a flat monthly rate is best.

:waving:


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## d8on27 (Nov 19, 2007)

"Are your contract customers all set to be driveway cleared by 7:30 am?"

No, we start our route at the end of the storm, regardless of time. We went out yesterday when the snow stopped at 2pm and were done by 8pm. Got a call at 6 "are you guys coming?" We state in our contract that we structure our route to have everyone done within 6 hours of the end of the storm. We do make a note of who specifically says they need to be out in the morning and plan accordinly.

"You say you double charge at 6 inches and run the route twice? Can you clarify?"

With big storms if you run your route and get everyone done in time the city will come and bury the apron after you're done. You'll also get considerable drifting. You can't wait until the city's done either or you'll be way too late. We'll run the route in the middle of the storm once. This will allow folks to "get out" and then come back again after the city has gone by and run it again to clean everything up. We double charge for these storms and do our best to take care of people. 

I dont have any experience with flat monthly billing so perhaps someone else can respond regarding that. I certainly like the idea of guaranteed income though.


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## Exact Services (Oct 11, 2008)

[email protected],

Do you have set event trigger 1" or 2"? It sounds like you wait until the storm stops then roll on your route. I'm really curious how your contracts are written up on that?

I like the idea of a non trigger and waiting for the storm to stop before rolling for non flat rate monthly customers who may be concerned with cost and don't need to leave the house immediately.

I just did a post card mailing to a retirement home area and my response is they are glad I'm offering a per event plan instead of the other companies flat $300+ rate for the full season. Times are tight for many seniors and people are a little scared.

Honestly I really prefer to sign up all my customers on a flat rate per month or winter. One of my clients said, can I pay the $450 now and be covered for the entire season? Yes 100% covered to the last snow storm in May or June if it happens. Also offered a 50% off lawn aeration as part of the promotion and will be doing lawn maintenance more than likely for them as well. payup


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## d8on27 (Nov 19, 2007)

Yeah we wait till it's over on storms under 6 inches. We let the customers choose between a 1 and 2 inch trigger. If they choose 1" theres no messing around, if it snows we're coming. We'll then run the rest of the route if it's a "tweener" on the rest and use our best judgement. Our contract basically says we wait till the snow ends and we'll be there within 6 hours. It's a pretty tight route so if we get a call we can be there in 5 minutes.


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## Exact Services (Oct 11, 2008)

Since you're using Single stage Toros and have experience with them - how much extra time does 12" of powder take to throw vs. 6 inches? I'm looking for a way to streamline my bids with fewer options for snow depth etc. But I want to base my productivity on the Toro Singles. 

How are your pay per event contracts set up? 1"-3" ......4"-6"..... 7"-12"+ 

How do you base the pricing on total snow fall? I really need to make my current system simpler. When there is boat load of different prices for different depths it looks way too busy IMO. 

Doing a flyer run this weekend hoping to land a few more customers. :waving:


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## snowsnothing (Nov 25, 2008)

Thanx for all the replys! I've learned alot from reading all the replys. I would have been back sooner but I was only notified by Email the for the first couple of replys. I figured the thread was dead. Anyway, I went ahead and bought the 2 stage 42" thrower for my Walker. I'll have to get some pics after I get it together. This thing looks like it will really kick ass! Someone wondered how I was going to get the unit to the accounts. Instead of useing my 16 ft mowing trailer, I've got a little 10 ft. utility trailer that I'm going to pull with my 4x4 Tacoma. The trailers not very high off the ground or heavy so I think I'll be ok. As far as priceing goes, I've been telling my customers that it's $100 per hr. So far nobody has objected to that rate. I figured if I charge per hr. then I will be compensated fairly no matter how deep the snow is. The longer it takes, the more I make.


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## MAGNUM SERVICES (Nov 25, 2008)

*snow blowers*

Driveway Doctor, I found chains for my snow blower and truck on the internet and will be ordering them soon. I can't wait to use the snow blower .


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## Exact Services (Oct 11, 2008)

snowsnothing;661645 said:


> "..snip... As far as priceing goes, I've been telling my customers that it's $100 per hr. So far nobody has objected to that rate. I figured if I charge per hr. then I will be compensated fairly no matter how deep the snow is. The longer it takes, the more I make.


You are very fortunate to be able to bill out at $100 an hour. I will count my lucky stars if I can maintain a solid $60 per hour in my area.

I just got under bid today for snow removal for a 3 car garage 2.5 normal length for $20 regardless of snow depth. Very nice high end neighborhood. I'm sure these are low baller uninsured scab rates. All my work will be done with snowthrowers.

My minimum is $35 for 1" to 3" inches which is probably cheaper than it should be.

I'm giving this snow season my 100% but I refuse to give it away. This could be my first and last snow season if this is a trend.

:waving:


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

I think you should have gotten a plow blade. It would be much faster. I plan on charging a flat fee of $30 per snow fall for anything up to 1 foot of snow on a standard driveway. I also don't plan on traveling anywhere to do so. I'm going to focus on neighborhood driveways and just ride my Grizzly from house to house.


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## smiley39 (Feb 5, 2009)

I have a 40" Bercomac snowblower mounted on my Husqvarna lawn tractor, it is great for driveways and _small_ parking lots. These things will chew up and spit out pretty much anything, and allow you to put it where you want. The key is getting a blower that allows you to adjust the chute deflection and rotation from the seat. You don't want to have to be on and off the tractor every time you want to change the placement of the snow. Also, make sure you get the extra weight kit when you add a blower to a lawn tractor, or you'll be spinning your wheels.

A good blower with chute adjustment from the seat, the extra weights so it will work, and an aftermarket cab is going to set you back a bundle. It works for me because I don't have a truck I can mount a plow on, but if I did, I think I would have a truck, plow, and beefy single stage blower for the walks and cleanup.

In response to you question about rates for blowing as opposed to plowing, you are likely only going to get more to blow if a plow would not work on the property.


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## Blunt (Jul 6, 2008)

I have a really old bercomac 44" 2 stage on my cub 3206. We had a 18" storm earlier this yr and i was called to snow blow a 700' driveway 12' wide with a parking area at the end about 30'x40' took me less than a hr. would have been around 30 minutes if i hadn't had to widen out the road and parking area where his smaller machine wasn't able to clean, His plow guys all quit because they kept getting stuck so it's snowblower territory now. Wish i could get him as a regular customer.


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## pohouse (Jan 26, 2009)

Bigger is not always better. I would invest in a single stage blower. I do 22 driveways in an HOA (2 car drives) in about 2 1/2 hours for a 3 inch snow. 7-10 minutes per drive. The single stages work great. Heavy wet snow is not ideal for any thrower. A single stage is easy to transport, cheap and they really provide a clean finish. My buddy sometimes helps me and he has an Airens two stage. I can outpace him nearly 2 to 1 drives in a 2-3 inch snow. Break out your two stage during a major snow event.


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