# Some hope for the rest of us.



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

My original thread was closed and I wanted to follow up regarding my first year of commercial snow removal.

Here is the original thread, so that you can see what I'm working with
https://www.plowsite.com/threads/ne...r-with-boss-v-plow-and-600lb-spreader.177737/

Regardless of how rough my setup is, and how many folks bash the welding work that was done, or the contract being "zero tolerance", this is profitable.

It is now the 2nd week of January and I have managed to service this property with no issues this entire winter. The parking lot is the roughest thing you have ever seen. Most said, don't do it, your truck will break, your bank will break, and your welds won't hold and you got ripped off and just don't do it.

I received many pm's from members telling me to keep my head up and ignore the desk jockeys. So far that has paid off, and i wanted to let some of the other guys who may be newer to the game that it's ok to talk back and ignore some of the desk jockey's who really do their best to discourage any sort of "working with what you have" mentality.

this ones for you and keep grinding.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

"It is now the 2nd week of January and I have managed to service this property with no issues this entire winter."
its only January, winter is just starting.( its the 6th so were not even a full week in)
How much snow has fallen on your lot so far this year?


You have to wonder about the lurkers who wont give advice out in the open.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

Let's keep the discussion on point and we won't have to close it. Thanks


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Winter is over?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Winter is over?


I think @Defcon 5 called it a week ago... Or maybe said it was a bust, I can't remember now...


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Winter is over?


 Its now summer "over there" , that way.
To the OP,just carry on ,if you saw some of the equipment being used in the low budget inner city areas surrounding me you'd be happy with what you run.I'm sure if you keep at it you'll look back on this time and chuckle !When I think of my first truck and plow I laugh , but hey, thats life. PS- bank every cent you can spare ,and make some good connections in case you need help.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I appreciate that, will be saving all of the profit from this year. 

Just as in lawn care, i too started with a laughable setup now that I look back. Although, back then it was because I didn't have the time to go big yet due to a busy day job. In this case, I am not wanting to go full snow removal, I cannot devote that sort of time to winter storms, so I will likely always carry one account like this to be profitable as well as somewhat manageable since it's the only one I have. 

It's Jan. 6th, winter is not over, but it's also not just beginning. I would call this the halfway point in my neck of the woods, or maybe mid january is the half way point but we are approaching it. 

We have taken a total of 8-10 inches this year, and we average around 20 per season so it's a good point to look back at how things are working out.


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## ZL1 (Oct 29, 2019)

Well, it's not over til it's over. I'm just 45 minutes north of the Illinois border, and we received half a foot in October. I've seen that in May as well. Just keep doing your job well, and don't wish for the end of winter, or wait for it...just keep doing your job well.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

rippinryno said:


> My original thread was closed and I wanted to follow up regarding my first year of commercial snow removal.
> 
> Here is the original thread, so that you can see what I'm working with
> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/ne...r-with-boss-v-plow-and-600lb-spreader.177737/
> ...


 it seems that your having some differences about zero tolerance. But I didn't respond to hash that over. I will say this, when I did have a zero tolerance contract which is impossible in my mind but some like it worded that way.

I would spread a salt run when it started to snow and I would plow when a inch accumulated. Just make sure you have salt present and plow one inch. In my mind that is about the closest thing you are going to get to zero tolerance.

You probably should try to get your contracts written as plow one inch, spread anything under one inch. Good Luck


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

the contract does state no more than 1" at any time. I pretreated the last storm in order to help maintain that, and was plowing while it was snowing.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

leigh said:


> Its now summer "over there" , that way.
> To the OP,just carry on ,if you saw some of the equipment being used in the low budget inner city areas surrounding me you'd be happy with what you run.I'm sure if you keep at it you'll look back on this time and chuckle !When I think of my first truck and plow I laugh , but hey, thats life. PS- bank every cent you can spare ,and make some good connections in case you need help.


 I'm still laughing or crying about my trucks.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

rippinryno said:


> the contract does state no more than 1" at any time. I pretreated the last storm in order to help maintain that, and was plowing while it was snowing.


 If your client is happy you need not to worry about anything else or said by anyone. As long as your insured correctly for your own well being. Would not be a bad idea to have someone watch your back in case of a break down you can't handle right away. Other than that just keep plowing and spreading.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Don't always blow off those desk jockeys...usually they have some experience with what they're talking about...usually...









Get advice, get opinions, and in the end you are the one to make the decision. Sometimes you'll say "I told you so" and most of the time you'll say "damn, I should have listened." Just do whatever you want to do.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

if your just in lawn care, and you told your INS agent you are doing snow plowing.
will this one lot cover the increases in INS coverage for the added liability cost?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JMHConstruction said:


> Don't always blow off those desk jockeys...usually they have some experience with what they're talking about...usually...
> View attachment 199619
> 
> 
> Get advice, get opinions, and in the end you are the one to make the decision. Sometimes you'll say "I told you so" and most of the time you'll say "damn, I should have listened." Just do whatever you want to do.


 I been doing it all my life, I just change some undercarriage parts on a excavator. I could not find a bearing everybody wanted me to buy the whole part for $1000.00. I was talking to the old Mennonite guy, we call him the hills have eye's he looks like the old man at the gas station. He pressed the old bearing out and had the exact bearing delivered to his shop.

The bearing was $18.00 and he asked for $50.00 cash. In my mind I thought he was full of bunk. Machine is running like it should. My hard head almost cost me $1000.00 plus shipping. So he fixed it for $68.00 and I thought he was full of bunk. Listening paid off this time.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Hydromaster said:


> if your just in lawn care, and you told your INS agent you are doing snow plowing.
> will this one lot cover the increases in INS coverage for the added liability cost?


far and away. my GL insurance did not go up that much when I added plow to it for one lot.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

So can you share your secrets us?

What's been your cost to date, profit and expenses?

I know a lot of successful men, they currently are working for others


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> So can you share your secrets us?
> 
> What's been your cost to date, profit and expenses?
> 
> I know a lot of successful men, they currently are working for others


There is no secret.

If you are losing money doing snow removal then you will want to read up on somet hings. The way you have worded it, it takes a secret for people to be able to make money? No, it takes a bit of management. Something I've been doing on the lawn care side for several years now. You will need to start from business square 1 if you think it takes a secret to make money doing snow removal. We're past that.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

If you service that one account and still work at another job there's no way your going to lose money. That's what I did in beginning ,a snow day was a day to double my contracting income for that day. It was simple and fun. It got out of hand through the years, the biggest regret I have is not taking on more contracting jobs in the winter. I would just plow. Plenty of income but if I had kept working in between snow all my plow income (6 figures) would have all been saved, invested, fully funded retirement accounts and my brokerage accounts. Now I have jobs lined up all winter, taking my own advice. Remember "income poor, asset rich"


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Ryan,

I think you are missing the point, let me flip the script a little bit.

Now imagine someone like myself with no lawn care experience other than maintaining his own

The story starts beginning of spring, I've purchase a truck trailer, a ride on lawn mower and accessories. Let's say I spent $5,000 on some low ball non maintained broken stuff s
, which is okay cuz I'm just starting off. Let's fast forward a bit, say 6 weeks unproductive weather.... And I have only one customer

And I'm telling everybody I've already made a profit, inferring I'm already paid back your $5,000, and the road ahead is gold with fat margins.

You follow what I'm putting down?

I've been in the snow game going about 35 years, plus I have 9 dogs, I know when its crap or when it's not.

Personally I declare a couple hundred thousand dollars a year as income, I don't truly believe you know much about business or you have extremely tinted rose colored glasses on


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I have no idea what you are trying to get at, but it's clear to me that you are assuming that since I have only 1 account, I will not make money and know nothing about the business. That's fine, I'll do my thing, you can think and assume what makes you feel best. If you think it's crap, i'm sorry you feel that way, maybe keep it to yourself until you can handle it.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

1olddogtwo said:


> Personally I declare a couple hundred thousand dollars a year as income, I don't truly believe you know much about business or you have extremely tinted rose colored glasses on


 You've got to get that # down ,its a great problem to have ! Work on getting your taxable income way down. Don't want Uncle Sam getting his hands too deep in your pockets ! That's my 2 cents ( that's all I've got unfortunately) And yes,I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night ! Oh,I also switched to Geico and saved 15 %


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

leigh said:


> You've got to get that # down ,its a great problem to have ! Work on getting your taxable income way down. Don't want Uncle Sam getting his hands too deep in your pockets ! That's my 2 cents ( that's all I've got unfortunately) And yes,I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night ! Oh,I also switched to Geico and saved 15 %


Actually I'm a Holiday inn millionaire, and Geico is one of my insurance company

I actually do get a fair amount of my taxes back, anywhere from 12 to 15K back every year..... Last year Illinois screwed me out of my state tax, that's why I am a non-resident of Kansas


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

again, let's stay on track or move on from the discussion, please


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

1olddogtwo said:


> Ryan,
> 
> I think you are missing the point, let me flip the script a little bit.
> 
> ...


 I guess I'm confused about this also .

I did some searching and I found that guys in Illinois are paying anywhere from $500 to $1000 plus for the snow Plowing liability insurance,
( One Man show or close to it)
The OP states he hasn't done much but spread salt and I think he plowed it couple times 
(op pleas correct me and the number of times you serviced the lot how long it took you and did you spread salt every time ?)

So,,,,,if you look at paying ourselves a living wage, cost of salt, cost of insurance both vehicle and liability, Vehicle cost maintenance cost etc. etc.I'm happy to hear you're making money at this point.

I think that's why he wants to know your secret? because some of us have been doing this for a few years & In that time have acquired a desk to work at.

I guess you have a very sharp pencil and I wish all the best.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

You know we go thru this scenario every year, we get the one snow hero who knows it all and thinks it snowing gold on him until it's point out but most of us were born two days ago and not yesterday.

Perhaps the OP doesn't realize he's in the footprints of others we're going down this very same journey, only to realize they're not as successful as they like to be perceived . .... And then they disappear.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> again, let's stay on track or move on from the discussion, please


 To the OP, don't take comments personally. There is almost always something mentioned to give pause to and meditate on. Some have either have experienced the concerns they mention or have seen others fall into them. All I know is that if we educate ourselves and work hard to deliver a good product we can succeed maybe half the time. Its eye opening the # of small business failures each year. Success is often preceded by failures. It all boils down to simple math. Hey,if things don't work out you at least don't have large amounts of capital tied up. Personally I've seen many succeed enough to provide at the minimum, a decent life for them and their families.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I think the real point is that we're talking about 1 property that pays well and a very low overhead budget to get it done. This 1 job isn't there to pay my living expenses, it's there to cushion my income. Not only will it pay for everything I have in it, but it will also profit a good chunk. Nobody is claiming to be a snow hero, it's a shame when people get offended by the guy who started from scratch and raked in good profits on a small commercial.

I was looking for a place to spend my extra time that would pay well, this seemed to fit the bill and thus far, regardless of some of the negative talk, I am seeing some good things to come.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Please don't take offense to this, but you sound like (and without knowing you or your business I could be WAY off base here) you are one of those guys I complete against daily in the building trades. The ones who are happy making a couple hundred bucks a day. They count everything as their personal expenses, and the rest is simply their personal income.

If this is you, this isn't an attack, so please don't take it as such. You need to change your thinking if you're going to grow. My probably the wrong person to give this advise (lord knows my company has been a **** show the last couple years), but you to think everything you do in business as it's own entity, and pay yourself as if you were an employee. Business profit doesn't just go into your pocket.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Luckily, I am not the guy you are talking about. I don't work for a couple hundred bucks a day and i don't count everything together. The business is seperate and i get paid like an employee.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> You know we go thru this scenario every year, we get the one snow hero who knows it all and thinks it snowing gold on him until it's point out but most of us were born two days ago and not yesterday.
> 
> Perhaps the OP doesn't realize he's in the footprints of others we're going down this very same journey, only to realize they're not as successful as they like to be perceived . .... And then they disappear.


 I'll agree with that, ice and snow stinks. I found better ways to make money without as much headache and cry babies. I do find myself getting jealous when a storm comes by. $140K to $150K net is okay by me. $200K gross in business you got some issues. $200K pay check from a employer would be wonderful.

Working in the dirt around here year round as a employee union or prevailing wage your only going to do $127K gross unless you work a ton of OT.


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

In his defense he said he gets 20” of snow fall a season. That’s a single storm for a lot of us.


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## ZL1 (Oct 29, 2019)

Mudly said:


> In his defense he said he gets 20" of snow fall a season. That's a single storm for a lot of us.


But it's not. I guarantee that's at least 6 events for season, and maybe 10-20 drops per season as he plows every inch. So the question remains: how much time for how much money?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I had to look at the other thread, was hoping i wasnt one of the desk jockeys.
Wouldnt mind seeing how those welds are holding up though...


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

We are on the 16h day of 89 or 90 days of
Winter.

All of the money you clear after your costs
Is your profit, what the business pays you is all Income Regardless if you put it in a cushion or the bank.

ballpark
your average number of times you will service the lot in any year.
What do they pay per push and or application of salt.
Ballpark,,,and I’m pretty sure none of these guys are going to run out and underbid it on you.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

ZL1 said:


> But it's not. I guarantee that's at least 6 events for season,


I'm still not even sure where in Illinois has had 8-10 inches so far this year... I have not even dug my plow out of storage yet... and the season is half over i guess?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Philbilly2 said:


> I'm still not even sure where in Illinois has had 8-10 inches so far this year... I have not even dug my plow out of storage yet... and the season is half over i guess?


Pshaw.... You guys think there is really a place like shangri la called Erin and that 1 guy could make a living like I do there..?
Its the internet....


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

ZL1 said:


> But it's not. I guarantee that's at least 6 events for season, and maybe 10-20 drops per season as he plows every inch. So the question remains: how much time for how much money?


 You're about right, 6 events and 12 or so salt drops.



Mr.Markus said:


> I had to look at the other thread, was hoping i wasnt one of the desk jockeys.
> Wouldnt mind seeing how those welds are holding up though...


still holding just fine, plow goes over some real bad concrete parking lot conditions and it hasnt broke.



Hydromaster said:


> We are on the 16h day of 89 or 90 days of
> Winter.
> 
> All of the money you clear after your costs
> ...


You can call it winter if you want but we got over 6 inches before winter even started, and we don't get anything in march, at least not very often, so if you do it right, and count the months....november, december, january, february, march.....we are actually right about half way. You have to think a little sometimes.



Philbilly2 said:


> I'm still not even sure where in Illinois has had 8-10 inches so far this year... I have not even dug my plow out of storage yet... and the season is half over i guess?


 Really, wow, don't get out much do ya? We took 4 inches a few weeks back and another 4 inches total from an october and november storm. Chicago had 8.1 inches total already in mid november. That's north of me but we've definitely had some snow thus far. We very rarely get much snow in march, so yes it's half over, i know it's mind blowing....just completely nuts!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> Not only will it pay for everything I have in it, but it will also profit a good chunk.


Unless you're God, you can't say or know this factually. Winter could be done for you or you could get another 20-30" of snow. Averages are just that...averages. They provide a baseline. Could be a 20" blizzard coming up or a 1" ice storm.

Last year we didn't drop a plow between the end of November and January 19. Then we went for the better part of 7 weeks virtually non-stop.

We've had over 60" in a week if the wind is right.

We've had 60" in a month.

Ever hear of not counting your chickens before they're hatched? But hey, I'm just a keyboard snowplower.


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## ZL1 (Oct 29, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> I'm still not even sure where in Illinois has had 8-10 inches so far this year... I have not even dug my plow out of storage yet... and the season is half over i guess?


What's your point? You're one hour south of me and I have plowed three times so far.

And if you're yet another one that thinks winter is half over, well...


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Unless you're God, you can't say or know this factually. Winter could be done for you or you could get another 20-30" of snow. Averages are just that...averages. They provide a baseline. Could be a 20" blizzard coming up or a 1" ice storm.
> 
> Last year we didn't drop a plow between the end of November and January 19. Then we went for the better part of 7 weeks virtually non-stop.
> 
> ...


Absolutely, and even a record breaking year will make money.

There hasn't been a 20" blizzard here in a 100 years so i'm going to play the odds on that one. Even still, i could take care of it.

You are a in a much different area that gets much more snow on a regular basis during the winter and i totally get that, but it's safe to say we typically maintain a steady average over the past 20 years. The biggest storm might hit 8 inches, maybe....


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

M M ..... I might be related to Pshaw ....... never heard of Erin ?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> There hasn't been a 20" blizzard here in a 100 years so i'm going to play the odds on that one. Even still, i could take care of it.


Where are you at in Illinois?

We had 28" in Feb of 2011...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

ZL1 said:


> What's your point? You're one hour south of me and I have plowed three times so far.
> 
> And if you're yet another one that thinks winter is half over, well...


Hunh?

3 Times hunh... wow. The Halloween snow we got melted before most guys could even make piles, and outside of that, nothing that salt or sun has not taken care of.

I was making a joke about winter being half over. Hence the . The ground has not even froze yet winter has yet to even start...


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Yes, i remember that storm hitting Chicago area,

Chicago O'Hare 21.2 inches
Rockford 15.1 inches
Romeoville 17.1 inches

sandwich must have got shelled a little better. Either way, didn't do anything close to that in my area.

When is your snow removal season half over philbilly? just curious. Do you do much plowing in april or may. If we start plowing in october or early november, then what's your half way point? I'm going to bet your closer to halfway than you want to believe or admit.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> Yes, i remember that storm hitting Chicago area,
> 
> Chicago O'Hare 21.2 inches
> Rockford 15.1 inches
> ...


November threw April is what most contracts are in this area.

I am not disagreeing that the time frame in months is half over, but the times that we see snow in the midwest never has seemed to start till around Christmas and run till the End of Feburary some years mid march.

I just don't really think that if you have done 6 plow events and 12 salt events so far, that your season total will end with 12 plow events and 24 saltings... who knows maybe it will?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> Chicago O'Hare 21.2 inches
> Rockford 15.1 inches
> Romeoville 17.1 inches


Pretty sure those are only 24 hour period totals.

That storm that separated the men from the mice in this area. We did not go home for 7 days... I got my *** handed to me on that storm.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> November threw April is what most contracts are in this area.
> 
> I am not disagreeing that the time frame in months is half over, but the times that we see snow in the midwest never has seemed to start till around Christmas and run till the End of Feburary some years mid march.
> 
> I just don't really think that if you have done 6 plow events and 12 salt events so far, that your season total will end with 12 plow events and 24 saltings... who knows maybe it will?


I've actually only plowed one time this year. The early one barely counted as i wasn't hardly moving much just getting some drift areas.

I've officially plowed once and i've dropped salt 4 times so far this year. I'm hoping my season ends with 6 plows and lets' call it 15 salts, but more than likely i'll be closer to 10 plow events. I'm prepared for either, but the pace is good so far.

the above numbers were storm totals. It was a whopper up there, but we didn't get that much, we might have taken 8 inches here, maybe.


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

FredG said:


> I been doing it all my life, I just change some undercarriage parts on a excavator. I could not find a bearing everybody wanted me to buy the whole part for $1000.00. I was talking to the old Mennonite guy, we call him the hills have eye's he looks like the old man at the gas station. He pressed the old bearing out and had the exact bearing delivered to his shop.
> 
> The bearing was $18.00 and he asked for $50.00 cash. In my mind I thought he was full of bunk. Machine is running like it should. My hard head almost cost me $1000.00 plus shipping. So he fixed it for $68.00 and I thought he was full of bunk. Listening paid off this time.


For A Monday? Thats awesome! Sometimes we catch a break, and a lot saved! Next time you see that "old guy" thank him again......you never know when you will be back to visit


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Unless you're God, you can't say or know this factually. Winter could be done for you or you could get another 20-30" of snow. Averages are just that...averages. They provide a baseline. Could be a 20" blizzard coming up or a 1" ice storm.
> 
> Last year we didn't drop a plow between the end of November and January 19. Then we went for the better part of 7 weeks virtually non-stop.
> 
> ...


Thats so true....we had a 21" storm early December , then a few weeks nothing, 31st. December 3", I am located 35 miles north of Boston, MA, the days of getting 12" storms or greater are now very scarce, things have to line up just right for a coastal dumping, lol now we see a chance of 1-3" possible Tuesday night, then 55F and rain of Saturday , hopefully the cold returns in 7-10 days and we re-load.

Sorry, got off track, like Mark and others said...use it as a baseline


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> Pretty sure those are only 24 hour period totals.
> 
> That storm that separated the men from the mice in this area. We did not go home for 7 days... I got my *** handed to me on that storm.


I find it fascinating that those numbers are a walk in the park for some people.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mudly said:


> I find it fascinating that those numbers are a walk in the park for some people.


No doubt.

I learned a lot about my equipment and how most of it was junk from that storm.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Hunh?
> 
> 3 Times hunh... wow. The Halloween snow we got melted before most guys could even make piles, and outside of that, nothing that salt or sun has not taken care of.
> 
> I was making a joke about winter being half over. Hence the . The ground has not even froze yet winter has yet to even start...


Half over in time, or snowfall?
Can't count on snow falling in typical winter months the past few years. This year, snow in October. 
Last year, snow in November, then nothing until mid January. February was decent, March not much and 3 or 4 decent events in April. 
In the early 80s, we had a major thunder snow event on Easter weekend. If I recall, something like 36" in 12 hours. 
It's not over until mother nature decides.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Unless you're God, you can't say or know this factually. Winter could be done for you or you could get another 20-30" of snow. Averages are just that...averages. They provide a baseline. Could be a 20" blizzard coming up or a 1" ice storm.
> 
> Last year we didn't drop a plow between the end of November and January 19. Then we went for the better part of 7 weeks virtually non-stop.
> 
> ...


And here is how fast a months profit can disappear . Took truck into the shop, needed a blower fan and windshield washer reservoir and what I thought was a torsion bar mount. Yeah,yeah, i could have done this stuff myself. But I'm glad now that I didn't.
Ended up needing both front wheel bearings, the driver's one was so bad, mechanic was surprised it didn't fall off. Last month's profit cut in half, just like that.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Ryan is from Springfield IL I believe.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

also what Ryan doesn't realize is there's a good possibility of a foot or more snow hitting Springfield Illinois this weekend


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> also what Ryan doesn't realize is there's a good possibility of a foot or more snow hitting Springfield Illinois this weekend


Sounds epic.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

EWSplow said:


> Sounds epic.


I actually called this event in last the decade.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Give Yourself a gold star.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> Give Yourself a gold star.


And a cookie...


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> also what Ryan doesn't realize is there's a good possibility of a foot or more snow hitting Springfield Illinois this weekend


Im a couple hours from springfield. A foot there, really?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

rippinryno said:


> Im a couple hours from springfield. A foot there, really?


Crap,

I have a serious question, as,,,I guess my comprehension skills lack,,,,
Is your plow a full trip or a trip edge?


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

The 11th is my birthday and I’m thinking snow cake and cigars! 

Op: Don’t be bothered when the advice isn’t what you want to hear, part of life. Sounds like you rubbed these guys the wrong way- try the left hand. And everybody’s probably grumpy from the snow drought.

As far as the plowing just do a better job than the guys next door lol.


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## prezek (Dec 16, 2010)

To play devils advocate for some guys...I get where he’s coming from. If he already has insurance set up for mowing and does 100k in business. 95 may come from mowing and only 5 comes from plowing. His additional cost won’t be much... His truck would be idle these months if he didn’t find a lot or 2 to plow...still paying insurance on that...the kicker would obviously be a blown transmission or something to that effect and all is for naught...I’m sure we all went through those learning curves...and still do on a daily basis.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> Im a couple hours from springfield. A foot there, really?


Or Charleston depending on track


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Full trip on mine. Id take a foot, would.be fun to play in,snowmobile would come out.....wont happen though.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

prezek said:


> To play devils advocate for some guys...I get where he's coming from. If he already has insurance set up for mowing and does 100k in business. 95 may come from mowing and only 5 comes from plowing. His additional cost won't be much... His truck would be idle these months if he didn't find a lot or 2 to plow...still paying insurance on that...the kicker would obviously be a blown transmission or something to that effect and all is for naught...I'm sure we all went through those learning curves...and still do on a daily basis.


If you have $95k in mowing and can only sign $5k in plowing you need to work on your marketing to your mowing customers. Sell some year round prices, easier on the cash flow for both involved.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JMHConstruction said:


> Please don't take offense to this, but you sound like (and without knowing you or your business I could be WAY off base here) you are one of those guys I complete against daily in the building trades. The ones who are happy making a couple hundred bucks a day. They count everything as their personal expenses, and the rest is simply their personal income.
> 
> If this is you, this isn't an attack, so please don't take it as such. You need to change your thinking if you're going to grow. My probably the wrong person to give this advise (lord knows my company has been a **** show the last couple years), but you to think everything you do in business as it's own entity, and pay yourself as if you were an employee. Business profit doesn't just go into your pocket.


 You been crying for at least 5 years. You can not be doing that bad. I think your like my buddy Carmen Fratto, Makes $250K I don't know if that's with his end of season bonus but his Brother which is his senior partner told me he's getting the $250K.

We talk because he's always looking for $10K from his Brother or me. He's good for it with no problem and his Brother and myself give it to him. Usually his Brother but if his Brother gets fed up he will come to me.

Back to JMH Did you not buy a new truck, Trailer, and a mini skid for post hole digging, spreader, New baby and young Wife and your own home. You got to be doing okay or you would be in the Carpenters union or prevailing wage where you can take home maybe $1300.00 per week.


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## prezek (Dec 16, 2010)

Mr.Markus said:


> If you have $95k in mowing and can only sign $5k in plowing you need to work on your marketing to your mowing customers. Sell some year round prices, easier on the cash flow for both involved.


Just throwing random numbers out...not as much year round pricing in low snow areas. We average 25-30". Lots of businesses and residential will roll the dice before they pay you during the winter...I am definitely under 10% of yearly gross every year for winter work. Probably closer to 5% most years.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

512high said:


> For A Monday? Thats awesome! Sometimes we catch a break, and a lot saved! Next time you see that "old guy" thank him again......you never know when you will be back to visit


 It only took him 10 min. I really wanted to give him $100.00 or more he would not take it. I got a convoy of stuff to bring out there. He's loaded up in there barely could park my pickup. I got to wait for his okay to bring anything else.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Whats the big deal about a snow and ice GL. This will be my second year of not plowing snow. I did not even cancel mine in case I could pick up some stacking or removal. Which probably won't even happen since our weather been somewhere between 35 and 40. Go down my yard by the top soil pile your getting pulled out. Big 4 yard loader barely wants to go in there.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

prezek said:


> To play devils advocate for some guys...I get where he's coming from. If he already has insurance set up for mowing and does 100k in business. 95 may come from mowing and only 5 comes from plowing. His additional cost won't be much... His truck would be idle these months if he didn't find a lot or 2 to plow...still paying insurance on that...the kicker would obviously be a blown transmission or something to that effect and all is for naught...I'm sure we all went through those learning curves...and still do on a daily basis.


 I'm sure he knows his expenses, If he's happy I'm happy. For some reason he missed something with his pencil he just went to school. I'm sure he won't miss a meal. I think he did good I don't know about his pricing his job. I think he will be okay though. He bought a old hooptie along with a old damaged plow.

No debt on trucks and equipment. If his pencil is correct he should come out good.

Rippinryno, You ended up on the wrong side of the bandwagon. It will be okay.


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## Green mentorship (Jul 29, 2019)

Just wanted to say thank you for the hope.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Green mentorship said:


> Just wanted to say thank you for the hope.


I lost all hope with my sanity


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

"It is now the 2nd week of January and I have managed to service this property with no issues this entire winter. The parking lot is the roughest thing you have ever seen. Most said, don't do it, your truck will break, your bank will break, and your welds won't hold and you got ripped off and just don't do it."

You've plowed one time. Leave this thread to simmer until April. 

Premature something....

You have a lot of merit badges to earn like towtruck badge, trans rebuild badge, glazed over red eyed no sleep badge, no start smack the starter badge, hydro line menstruation badge, locked caliper badge, busted wiper badge, iced doors shut badge, dead battery badge, shoveler noshow badge, out of line grumpy customer badge and on and on. 

Wish you the best of luck lmao.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> So can you share your secrets us?
> 
> What's been your cost to date, profit and expenses?
> 
> I know a lot of successful men, they currently are working for others


A Lot is a understatement, lots folded and are right back where they belong in the Union where someone can lead them. Had to young guys friends with my daughter and Son. Bust my chops every time they come to the house.

Them - Big worm whats up with all that old stuff down your shop. Somebody said it was all junk I laughed they were busting chops. One inherits some cash from his grandfather, not a lot maybe $225K Goes to a auction another one bit the dust. The building and land you got to pay $15K per year in taxes. I go $75k thinking I'll get $120K from some dummy. I'm standing there watching closely The owner got his buddy bidding on the property.

Everybody with any brains would of seen his buddy in the corner behind him bumping it up. If he didn't bust my chops I would of told him, hey dummy the owner is bumping you up. He's so stupid he did not even look behind him to see who was bidding and could of jumped out he knows it was the owners friend. I'm not bidding unless I can see who's bidding against me even if I got to ask the auctioneer.

So the Owner knows he's a dumb kid the owners buddy stops right before $125K they got enough he's happy and the kid is happy. The owner is standing there on the block next to the auctioneer. I go over there and see what's going on. He's kicking the auctioneer when he wants him to make like someones bidding.

So the auctioneer starts the bid again sez the owner got to get $127500. the kid jumps on it. It's his you had to have bank approval before you could bid or prove you got the assets in cash. I know he borrowed the money from the bank, may have closing costs don't know but he has the auction fee.

He spent a pretty good amount on a roller and some tampers. Time goes on brand new big excavator, Brand new western star and lowboy, new dump truck new paver. Who knows what else. I see his high dollar mechanic he had on the books at the tavern. He's going down got to be out next week. The Mechanic he had heard about the bank people saying he's in default. He said he grabbed all his tools went in for his checks and peeled out.

Whats he care he got fat with what the kid was paying him. The construction is pretty much shut down, he only got one casino cause he lost some snow to a old timer he lied too and stole a job from him.

Now he text me my Son to trying to think I can help him out getting in the operators union. I tell both of them to come to the Office because he knows I can get him a book with the union. My Wife been on vacation and was in the office. I told her could you please go home i got some serious business with these dummys.

Here they both come laughing and joking, whats up big worm. I said sit down. I say how do I know I can trust you sticking my neck out for you that will pay you $65.00 per hr. These guys will hold it against me and I won't get a favor if I send them a dummy.

So now I really go old school, What did you learn losing that property and business. Wasn't my fault just was not enough work out there. What about the old man that asked you not to bid main st and you agreed. Oh F him he can't tell me what to bid. Oh really he stoled 3 big snow and ice from you, Maybe if you didn't pluck him on main st you would still have the 3 big parking area's you had you could of stumbled through the winter and been ready for next season.

Now I'm shaming him good, let me tell you something else dummy that shop you bought could of been bought for maybe $78K. How, the guy bumped you up and got more out of you after the bid. What about all them payment books on fluffed up denials and fords. I was told you won't get no work with old trucks. Oh really remember you said I had junk? Worm I was just busting chops. I'm not busting chops your over extended. How? you lost the shop and equipment no?

Your in here hoping that I get you a book to the operators, You got the $1000.00 for your initiation fee, not right now. Well get it then come back. I said don't you think you should of asked the old timers for advice? Probably. You dummy's just don't get it. Anything your going though in life 9 times out of 10 I been there. I just ended it because I did not think he was following me.

This is a true story and maybe I was rough on them but that's how I was treated when I messed up.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

I read the whole story ! Riveting saga !


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Landgreen said:


> Leave this thread to simmer until April.
> 
> .


That's crazy talk!

This thread will be locked way before April...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

BossPlow2010 said:


> That's crazy talk!
> 
> This thread will be locked way before April...


 Meh he's taking it okay, Unless some of us others get into it. Then it is over.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> It's Jan. 6th, winter is not over, but it's also not just beginning. I would call this the halfway point in my neck of the woods, or maybe mid january is the half way point but we are approaching it.





rippinryno said:


> I've officially plowed once and i've dropped salt 4 times so far this year. I'm hoping my season ends with 6 plows and lets' call it 15 salts, but more than likely i'll be closer to 10 plow events.


I hate to bring math into this, but I would say you are closer to 1/6th or 1/10th done with your plowing season being over using your figures...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> I hate to bring math into this,


Speaking of math...my calendar shows its January 7.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Landgreen said:


> "It is now the 2nd week of January and I have managed to service this property with no issues this entire winter. The parking lot is the roughest thing you have ever seen. Most said, don't do it, your truck will break, your bank will break, and your welds won't hold and you got ripped off and just don't do it."
> 
> You've plowed one time. Leave this thread to simmer until April.
> 
> ...


Plowing only once during the months of Oct, Nov, and December ain't bad. I'd say that's a light start to the winter, wouldn't you agree?

I've been doing lawn care long enough both on my own as well as for municipalities and governments to have every badge you have mentioned multiple times. Not a newb to trucks, trailers, and equipment. Shoot I had most of those before i was 18.

I can let the thread simmer if it's best. I just wanted to let some folks know that I'm getting it done with the setup I have. Contrary to what many thought...."too much parking lot", "junk setup", etc. etc.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

SA badge ✔


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> Most said, don't do it, your truck will break, your bank will break,


No one said this in your original thread.



rippinryno said:


> and your welds won't hold


Many of us said this, but after 1 plowing it would be extremely premature to say we were wrong.



rippinryno said:


> just don't do it.


Again, no one said this.



rippinryno said:


> I received many pm's from members telling me to keep my head up and ignore the desk jockeys.


I'm sure you did.

But I am curious who those desk jockeys are.



rippinryno said:


> i wanted to let some of the other guys who may be newer to the game that it's ok to talk back and ignore some of the desk jockey's who really do their best to discourage any sort of "working with what you have" mentality.


The problem with this statement is it is based on a fallacy. No one told you not to do it. No one told you your truck would not work. No one said you will lose money.

And none of us are desk jockeys when it comes to plowing. I am the first one out in my company and generally the last one in. Everyone else has extensive hands on experience managing storms and plowing.

Carry on...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

rippinryno said:


> Plowing only once during the months of Oct, Nov, and December ain't bad. I'd say that's a light start to the winter, wouldn't you agree?
> 
> I've been doing lawn care long enough both on my own as well as for municipalities and governments to have every badge you have mentioned multiple times. Not a newb to trucks, trailers, and equipment. Shoot I had most of those before i was 18.
> 
> I can let the thread simmer if it's best. I just wanted to let some folks know that I'm getting it done with the setup I have. Contrary to what many thought...."too much parking lot", "junk setup", etc. etc.


 Don't worry about it, just keep your cool. You have not seen nothing yet. You let anybody get to you they will come harder at you. Your getting your feet wet with one job. By the end of the snow and ice season you will know whats up and which way to go.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I always laugh at this meme, it is a great interpretation of how you should view your life.
One of the best articles i ever read...

https://landscapeontario.com/ignorant-negative-comments-are-real-but-i-dont-let-them-change-me


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mr.Markus said:


> View attachment 199640
> 
> 
> I always laugh at this meme, it is a great interpretation of how you should view your life.
> ...


 Good reading, Lombardi in Toronto? I know why he is in business. Lol


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

As I step back from the planet earth and take in a deep breath of the cosmos I clear my head and bring things into perspective ,I come back to the realization that we are just going back and forth, raising and dropping a piece of metal ,pushing temporary frozen precip into neat little piles, throwing some chlorides on ice and making a few bucks.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I will say, if those welds held on this nightmare of a cracked and damaged parking lot, they're stronger than what most were claiming already. Of course all the go hard internet folks will sit back and bash welds, that's been happening since internet started. The welds are holding, they did what I asked of them, which is to patch up the cracks. If by the end of the season I gain a crack or the welds don't hold I'll be sure to post up, but I'm fairly certain they'll hold. I'm not out there to trash the setup, I'm careful and know where the parking lot gets real bad.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

leigh said:


> and making a few bucks.


Only if you know the secrets of proftability.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> Only if you know the secrets of proftability.


 I pick up bottle returns and I'm an Uber driver during storms,just a few tidbits to profitability.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

The biggest secret is to get in and get to work. Don't shy away because your'e plow is ugly or your truck is a jalopy. Get in, set your price point, and get after it. You don't have to be full time, you don't have to have a nice shiny rig, you just have to be able to be there on time and get the work done with what you have. The people doing your welds don't need to be, nor will they be, internet aerospace engineers, they'll be welders, that weld all day everyday, and just as in my case, you can go with it rather that listen to the internet haters bash welds. Dont' let the desk jockeys bash your price point on said wells because they don't like how they look. What they say doesn't pay the bills...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> The biggest secret is to get in and get to work. Don't shy away because your'e plow is ugly or your truck is a jalopy. Get in, set your price point, and get after it. You don't have to be full time, you don't have to have a nice shiny rig, you just have to be able to be there on time and get the work done with what you have. The people doing your welds don't need to be, nor will they be, internet aerospace engineers, they'll be welders, that weld all day everyday, and just as in my case, you can go with it rather that listen to the internet haters bash welds. Dont' let the desk jockeys bash your price point on said wells because they don't like how they look. What they say doesn't pay the bills...


Not sure why this is so difficult. Nobody said your truck, plow or salt won't work. No one said you won't make money. No one said you can't do the work. No one said you can't make money using an older truck or your plow is ugly. No one hear is an keyboard desk jockey.

This entire thread is based on a fallacy.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No one hear is an keyboard desk jockey.


Uummmm....


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No one hear is an keyboard desk jockey. *Some of us use our phones.*


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Uummmm....


Ooooh


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I specifically recall several people telling me my salt wouldn't work, i blasted a whole pallet of that stuff @ .50 per bag, cost me about 20 bucks to do the parking lota few times over. 

I also recall being told my contract was a misnomer and that no such thing existed, regarding zero tolerance. That was a few pages in itself. Best to leave that on the other closed thread. The fact of the matter regarding the zero tolerance is that it's defined by the contract itself, not the guy behind the keyboard. Again, a reason i posted this new thread to inform people to take things with a grain of salt, not fall into the attacks of others.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No one hear is an keyboard desk jockey.
> 
> This entire thread is based on a fallacy.


 Speak for yourself, I'm a part time desk jockey, getting lots of experience at "Plow Forum U " Someday if things work out I'll be full time ! Oh back to the OP,I think all points have been beaten to death, you'll be fine ,you seem to be a little sensitive, you keep bringing up those same points ! Maybe some new threads with a specific problem or solution would be good.Maybe close this one. Or Maybe find some funny story to relate, its good for the soul !


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> Plowing only once during the months of Oct, Nov, and December ain't bad. I'd say that's a light start to the winter, wouldn't you agree?
> 
> I've been doing lawn care long enough both on my own as well as for municipalities and governments to have every badge you have mentioned multiple times. Not a newb to trucks, trailers, and equipment. Shoot I had most of those before i was 18.
> 
> I can let the thread simmer if it's best. I just wanted to let some folks know that I'm getting it done with the setup I have. Contrary to what many thought...."too much parking lot", "junk setup", etc. etc.


I'm glad that your first plowing went well. Good job. But you're poppin the champagne before the race has barely started. _*You plowed one time*._ I get that where you're located doesn't receive much snow so your winter is far different. Those of us that plow 30+ times a season can't help but have a little chuckle over your excitement of conquering a little snowfall.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Landgreen said:


> I'm glad that your first plowing went well. Good job. But you're poppin the champagne before the race has barely started. _*You plowed one time*._ I get that where you're located doesn't receive much snow so your winter is far different. Those of us that plow 30+ times a season can't help but have a little chuckle over your excitement of conquering a little snowfall.


Craigslist sold out after the last time i posted it but there are still some on Amazon...
https://www.amazon.com/StirMATE®-Smart-Pot-Stirrer-Rechargeable/dp/B076HH4WZM


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Landgreen said:


> I'm glad that your first plowing went well. Good job. But you're poppin the champagne before the race has barely started. _*You plowed one time*._ I get that where you're located doesn't receive much snow so your winter is far different. Those of us that plow 30+ times a season can't help but have a little chuckle over your excitement of conquering a little snowfall.


the original post and this thread is for the guys just starting out. I wanted to follow up to let them know regardless of how much grief i was given in the previous thread that was closed, so far we're good to go. I'm not trying to jinks myself and I'm not claiming that I am pushing mountains of snow, i'm saying that I am on my 3rd month of the contract and it's working.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

You do know the term "zero tolerance ™" is trademarked. 

Have you contacted Tovar for use of there slogan?


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> the original post and this thread is for the guys just starting out. I wanted to follow up to let them know regardless of how much grief i was given in the previous thread that was closed, so far we're good to go. I'm not trying to jinks myself and I'm not claiming that I am pushing mountains of snow, i'm saying that I am on my 3rd month of the contract and it's working.


I don't get your thread. I dont get the self congratulatory pat on the back for yourself especially since it's only Jan 7.

Does your area only get 2-3 plowable snowfalls per season? If that's the case then any joe blow can rustle up a beater truck/plow, roll the dice and probably sneak through a winter without too much of a problem. To offer hope to others that are serious about beginning a snow removal business with what you have accomplished is a bit underwhelming.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> You do know the term "zero tolerance ™" is trademarked.
> 
> Have you contacted Tovar for use of there slogan?


I'm not using it as a slogan or a brand. Actually, I haven't put it in any sort of writing ever, it's not my standard to invent. But if it helps you sleep better, and troll less...how about 0 tolerance. good?


Landgreen said:


> I don't get your thread. I dont get the self congratulatory pat on the back for yourself especially since it's only Jan 7.
> 
> Does your area only get 2-3 plowable snowfalls per season? If that's the case then any joe blow can rustle up a beater truck/plow, roll the dice and probably sneak through a winter without too much of a problem. To offer hope to others that are serious about beginning a snow removal business with what you have accomplished is a bit underwhelming.


 It's working, I am updating as the season goes on. Not much more to get.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Maybe he should of bought a new JD 344 with MP and a Denali 2500 HD with a ebling his first experience and year in snow and ice. Oh for one small job. I don't think he was bragging or looking for a pat on the back. I think after everybody jumping on him he was implying he got it done.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

FredG said:


> Maybe he should of bought a new JD 344 with MP and a Denali 2500 HD with a ebling his first experience and year in snow and ice. Oh for one small job. I don't think he was bragging or looking for a pat on the back. I think after everybody jumping on him he was implying he got it done.


Here we go again... no one implied that at all.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> .
> I also recall being told my contract was a misnomer and that no such thing existed, regarding *zero tolerance*. That was a few pages in itself. Best to leave that on the other closed thread. The fact of the matter regarding the *zero tolerance* is that it's defined by the contract itself, not the guy behind the keyboard. Again, a reason i posted this new thread to inform people to take things with a grain of salt, not fall into the attacks of others.


Of course you never said that.

At this rate, you'll be retired and livin large by March



rippinryno said:


> I'm not using it as a slogan or a brand. *Actually, I haven't put it in any sort of writing ever,* it's not my standard to invent. But if it helps you sleep better, and troll less...how about 0 tolerance. good?
> 
> It's working, I am updating as the season goes on. Not much more to get.


Trolled.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

FredG said:


> Maybe he should of bought a new JD 344 with MP and a Denali 2500 HD with a ebling his first experience and year in snow and ice. Oh for one small job. I don't think he was bragging or looking for a pat on the back. I think after everybody jumping on him he was implying he got it done.


Fred, reel it back in.

Nobody has gone down that road, except as Mark pointed out, the OP did.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

once again, no need for some of the negative comments at/towards another...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Here we go again... no one implied that at all.


 Nobody bashed the truck or welds? Maybe it was the closed thread. Maybe it was the OP, Maybe it's the Patron and pints. Who knows.


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

rippinryno said:


> My original thread was closed and I wanted to follow up regarding my first year of commercial snow removal.
> 
> Here is the original thread, so that you can see what I'm working with
> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/ne...r-with-boss-v-plow-and-600lb-spreader.177737/
> ...


I started with a 94 F250 and sno way poly. I hand sanded and salted for ten years to save up for better equipment. Up until last year I ran old trucks-that didn't have plows on them until I put them on. Nothing about that was ideal.

The desk boys are great for ideals and ideas, but its the stubbornness of the owner that makes a company grow. Yeah crap happens, yes stuff with break, yes you aren't doing it the best way, but make it work make it PROFITABLE so you can get the ideal equipment. Do it your way to get to your goal.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Kvston said:


> The desk boys are great for ideals and ideas


you think they started at the desk?


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> you think they started at the desk?


Depends...are we talking millenial desk jockeys???


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Kvston said:


> but its the stubbornness of the owner that makes a company grow.


I'm not stubborn, I'm persistent.


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm not stubborn, I'm persistent.


Either works fella. Both get ya through. Both serve an owner well.


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> you think they started at the desk?


I wonder sometimes if they just grew there or were hatched...


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

My best friends was a racer, drag race, stock car, moto cross, snowmobile. The best advice he ever gave me was this.
"What's the first thing you have to do ,to win a race?"
"Finish"


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

jonniesmooth said:


> My best friends was a racer, drag race, stock car, moto cross, snowmobile. The best advice he ever gave me was this.
> "What's the first thing you have to do ,to win a race?"
> "Finish"


I beg to differ. The first thing you have to do is be able to enter the race. The very last thing you do is "finish". You can't finish a race if you don't have the equipment.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

jonniesmooth said:


> My best friends was a racer, drag race, stock car, moto cross, snowmobile. The best advice he ever gave me was this.
> "What's the first thing you have to do ,to win a race?"
> "Finish"


I would have guessed more along the lines of what Ricky Bobby always said...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> I beg to differ. The first thing you have to do is be able to enter the race. The very last thing you do is "finish". You can't finish a race if you don't have the equipment.


wow... :laugh:


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I know, mind blowing right! 

Can't win a race if you don't first get to the starting line.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

jonniesmooth said:


> My best friends was a racer, drag race, stock car, moto cross, snowmobile. The best advice he ever gave me was this.
> "What's the first thing you have to do ,to win a race?"
> "Finish"


Around here, the race hasn't even started yet. Time trials at best.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> wow... :laugh:


 I'm from Ct ,I'm not overly impressed ,I live this daily !


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Don't get all bent out of shape about it, it's the wrong phrase and doesn't make sense. Don't let it blow your mind.

Here's a better one. "In order to finish first, you must first finish. "

The statement "what's the first thing you have to do to win a race.....finish" sounds like mumble jumble. 

The first thing you have to do to win a race is get a car.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> The first thing you have to do to win a race is get a car.


wow...


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> wow...


Doesn't surprise me a bit.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

In order to finish the race, you must be conceived.


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> Don't get all bent out of shape about it, it's the wrong phrase and doesn't make sense. Don't let it blow your mind.
> 
> Here's a better one. "In order to finish first, you must first finish. "
> 
> ...


 I really don't think anyone is getting "bent out of shape ". You set yourself up for some comic and light hearted kidding around. I'm sure we all have friends like that, they're the "gift that keeps on giving" lol. Sitting around with your friends, couple drinks and that certain someone starts talking and then the fun begins ! (I'm often that guy :hammerhead


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> In order to finish the race, you must be conceived.


If you are conceived you won a race already...


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> In order to finish the race, you must be conceived.


Sounds like a lot of work.


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Lets get this thread back on topic, no need for these inane comments that add little to this conversation, you know who you are. I don't want to have to close this thread down.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

leigh said:


> Lets get this thread back on topic, no need for these inane comments that add little to this conversation, you know who you are. I don't want to have to close this thread down.


was just going to post the same...as always, if you only want to post to stir up trouble or attempt to get the thread closed, just move on and quit posting within it

thanks


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## ggb6259 (Jan 14, 2010)

But Ricky Bobby had baby Jesus on his side...


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Update: We had a snow even last Friday/Saturday, much like the rest of the country. I was going to pretreat about 500lbs of salt, calling for 1/8" of ice, which did actuallly come, then it rained about 5 hours later, nevertheless the timing was bad and I had to have this slip free. 

As I was loading the salt hopper I started the pickup, which hadn't been started in about a month....let it warm up while I was dumping bags. After my last bag I jumped out of the bed and find a fairly large puddle of gasoline....Hopped in the old girl and blazed through the parking lot for the entire 3 minutes it takes to get salt down. Came back parked it and shut it off, of course the leak is worse when it's running fuel pump. I have a good idea where it's coming from but will be spending some time this week fixing that likely rusted out fuel line. It can't go ignored as I could see a trailer behind me while i was salting.


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

Hope you don’t smoke.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Haha, that's no joke, and I don't so that's good. 

The truck ran normal so I think this could be a return line and not a pressure line although it's a big leak, not just a trick when it's running ti's full on.


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## ZL1 (Oct 29, 2019)

If not a line it could likely be the seal on the pickup on the top of the tank. I've had two of those go bad.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

really hoping to not have to drop the tank on this rust bucket. Been there done that with less rusty units...talk about opening a basket of eggs. I think it's either on one of the connections or it's the steel line that has rotted out, i'm goig to get a good look at it today. If it's just the still line I will cut and fit a hose.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Get a can of flex~seal...


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

lol, if it can seal a boat, it'll seal a fuel line....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> really hoping to not have to drop the tank on this rust bucket. Been there done that with less rusty units...talk about opening a basket of eggs. I think it's either on one of the connections or it's the steel line that has rotted out, i'm goig to get a good look at it today. If it's just the still line I will cut and fit a hose.


If it is a rust bucket, just cut a hole in the bed.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> If it is a rust bucket, just cut a hole in the bed.


6" hole saw


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

i can tell it's not the seal on the tank based on how it's leaking, but that's a good idea since it won't matter one bit haha.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Got the biggest storm of the year rolling in right now, will be seeing 6" potentially. hope those fine welds hold.

Got some trusty JB weld mixed with the gorilla epoxy holding my fuel line leak. I've salted 3 or 4 times since I last posted in this thread, but this will be the 2nd or 3rd plow round it looks like. The good news is, I put a nice touchscreen in my lawn care 2wd pickup. It is the salt runner during storms to and from the lot. If i have to camp out, i'll throw on netflix and chill.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I just wish I had still had hope...


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Plowed it twice, last night and this morning real early. I can't understand how that truck plowed for 4 hours and those welds still held? damm....IF you saw this parking lot you wuold really be surprised it's a disaster, the concrete is trashed.

in other news, i used rock salt for the first time frmo site one. Total garbage, very inconsistant and half the bag is powder/dust. I'm sticking with the water softener crystals, they're consistant and no huge chunks or tiny powder crap. 5 bucks a bag is 5 bucks a bag.

No wonder people have so many issues with their spreaders they're putting this crap in them. i've yet to have a problem with nearly a pallet of pool salt crystals and then close to another pallet of the solar salt. and I will stop using this stuff before i do.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> i've yet to have a problem and will stop using this stuff before i do.


Who's i do???


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

He dids brother . I found Windsor salt more consistent than Sifto .


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

alright guys...might be time to quit beating this dead horse Thumbs Up


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

couple photos of the parking lot conditions. cringeworthy.


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> Brand new to the game, picked up a 2 acre commercial parking lot, wide open, no curbs, medians, or sidewalks. Just cars in and out 24/7. cringeworthy.
> 
> View attachment 200790
> 
> ...


Odd very odd, your photos don't match your description of the lot


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Weathermen suck they been inaccurate most of the yea . We dodnt get the 2incher last night looks like a band moving throught SEMich now


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> Odd very odd, your photos don't match your description of the lot


That's odd?


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> Odd very odd, your photos don't match your description of the lot


Thats the lot. Photos have to be 2 years old or more though. I posted pictures of the bad concrete areas. The lot no longer has those boxes or trucks in it. Its used for parking now. Those photos are of the parking lot. No medians, no curbs, fenced in, no lights, badly damaged concrete. The only thing youre having issues with are the old photo showing different vehicles.....not here to convince you of anything....thats the lot, take it or leave it. The point is....how about that pavement!?


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

rippinryno said:


> Thats the lot. Photos have to be 2 years old or more though. I posted pictures of the bad concrete areas. The lot no longer has those boxes or trucks in it. Its used for parking now. Those photos are of the parking lot. No medians, no curbs, fenced in, no lights, badly damaged concrete. The only thing youre having issues with are the old photo showing different vehicles.....not here to convince you of anything....thats the lot, take it or leave it. The point is....how about that pavement!?


Why no current pics?


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

May want to ask google earth


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

rippinryno said:


> May want to ask google earth


I'm asking you.
Expected answers would be:
I don't have a camera.
I'll get some tomorrow in the daylight.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Lol, some of you guys are a literal riot!

I've got dozens upon dozens of current pics, but I figured that these satellite images showed the extent of the damage as far as how big some of the bad spots are. I take pictures of the lot every time I am there doing snow removal, but that's for the people who pay me, not for the peanut gallery. Have a great weekend!


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> Lol, some of you guys are a literal riot!


the feeling is mutual...


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

rippinryno said:


> Lol, some of you guys are a literal riot!
> 
> I've got dozens upon dozens of current pics, but I figured that these satellite images showed the extent of the damage as far as how big some of the bad spots are. I take pictures of the lot every time I am there doing snow removal, but that's for the people who pay me, not for the peanut gallery. Have a great weekend!


Sorry sat pics dont give anything close to the extent of damage. If your looking for any type of realistic feedback, you need to provide some up to date, and closer pics.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Freshwater said:


> Sorry sat pics dont give anything close to the extent of damage. If your looking for any type of realistic feedback, you need to provide some up to date, and closer pics.


From what I gather detailed pics are only for people that pay for them not the peanut gallery......



rippinryno said:


> I take pictures of the lot every time I am there doing snow removal, but that's for the people who pay me, not for the peanut gallery. Have a great weekend!


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)




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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Plowing and salting as we speak. Another 2 inches rolled in


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

ok guys, there's no need to post just to poke fun or stir the pot...and yes, I mean the OP as well.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

After clearing wed night into thurs morning for 2 weeks in a row and a couple revisits for salt, it's starting to wrap up.

Nothing is certain, but based on our forecast, we're looking to be good to go until spring. Long term forecast shows no snow the rest of February. Maybe we get something in March, but still quite unlikely based on the past snowfalls, at most it would require salt.

I hope i don't jinx myself, but this was a solid season and a great experience that I was able to get done with ABSOLUTELY just awful welds that aren't worth 5 dollars, and a unit that is scary rusty. Dang me for paying my welder to make this unit function.

In total I did 5 snow clearings and probably 10-12 salt dumps. Not bad.



Freshwater said:


> Sorry sat pics dont give anything close to the extent of damage. If your looking for any type of realistic feedback, you need to provide some up to date, and closer pics.


IF you're not able to see the damage from those sat pics, sorry, not sorry it's quite obvious.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> I hope i don't jinx myself, but this was a solid season and a great experience that I was able to get done with ABSOLUTELY just awful welds that aren't worth 5 dollars, and a unit that is scary rusty. Dang me for paying my welder to make this unit function.


I don't believe anyone was knocking the welds...only what it was welded to. Reading comprehension...it's a thing.

https://www.woodtv.com/weather/snowfall-deficit-will-grow-with-a-dry-week-ahead/

*Even though we only received 30 inches of snow by Feb. 17, 2016, the season still concluded with 61.1 inches. That means more than half of that season's snowfall occurred after this date.
*
I know, you live in central Illernoiz, but someone wise once said don't count your chickens before they're hatched.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Average snowfall for the entire month of march in my neck of the woods is 2.4inches. I know i could very well jinx myself by talking about it. 

Now, as long as some fluke March doesn't come around and dump record snowfalls, I think i can relax a bit.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

A couple quotes regarding the welds when i posted photos. 


> First real good hit, what do ya think its gonna look like?


looks the same as it did at the beginning of winter, they held.



> I would go ahead and place your order now so your not down the wait time when it is snowing...


Sure am glad I didn't take that advice.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> In total I did 5 snow clearings and probably 10-12 salt dumps. Not bad.


Wouldn't you know if you salted 10 or 12 times? If you're per push/per application or seasonal it doesn't matter it's cost that should be tracked and if per push / per application billed for.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Actually, no, I do not know. Sometimes it's a half hopper, sometimes it's a full hopper, sometimes it's 2 full hoppers, sometimes it's 1.5 hoppers.

I can absolutely tell you how much I've spent in salt and ice melt and that's all that matters. It's not a per salt application, so frankly, as long as I can keep it clean, i'm not keeping a tally on many times i drive the truck around the parking lot to spread salt. Long as I know what i'm spending, that's it. 

I will say that I know it's around 10-12 and for me, that's good enough.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

When I get invoice and it says 10 or 12 

What am I being charge for 10 applications or 12 applications ?


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

So, would you pay more for 12 applications vs 10 applications? 

This isn't that kind of contract. 

Matters none how much I am there, the pay is the same. What does matter is how much i spend on material and my own time.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> but this was a solid season






rippinryno said:


> In total I did 5 snow clearings and probably 10-12 salt dumps. Not bad.


5 plow events and a dozen salt runs is a solid season??? Really?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> What does matter is how much i spend on material and *my own time.*


Exactly...so was it 10 times or 12 times? Because that makes a difference just as much as how much material you've used.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> Actually, no, I do not know. Sometimes it's a half hopper, sometimes it's a full hopper, sometimes it's 2 full hoppers, sometimes it's 1.5 hoppers.
> 
> I can absolutely tell you how much I've spent in salt and ice melt and that's all that matters. It's not a per salt application, so frankly, as long as I can keep it clean, i'm not keeping a tally on many times i drive the truck around the parking lot to spread salt. Long as I know what i'm spending, that's it.
> 
> I will say that I know it's around 10-12 and for me, that's good enough.


Ok.... if not per application or "seasonal" you still have cost other than material's, there's basic operating there's, fuel, labor, accruing for equipment maintenance and business growth.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> 5 plow events and a dozen salt runs is a solid season??? Really?


solid profit.



Mark Oomkes said:


> Exactly...so was it 10 times or 12 times? Because that makes a difference just as much as how much material you've used.


doesn't matter one lick to me. I do the work. I spend the time. I know the dollar amounts. I could care less if i spread salt 10 or 12 times. As long as I know how many hours I spent and how much material I used. And i know both of those because I keep a log of how much time i spent in that parking lot during snow removal operations. The number of times i spread salt is not a factor. Does 1 hopper count as a full spread, is half a hopper a half spread? are we now using decimals? What is a factor, time, material, fuel, etc. Not 10 or 12.



BUFF said:


> Ok.... if not per application or "seasonal" you still have cost other than material's, there's basic operating there's, fuel, labor, accruing for equipment maintenance and business growth.


Yes, those are all expenses that i factor in. not 10 or 12 applications, that doesn't matter one bit. Please see above for scientific explanation.


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> 5 plow events and a dozen salt runs is a solid season??? Really?


We've salted more than 12 times this year but 5 pushes is about average for here.


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I dont need to read all the new post to get caught up.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

rippinryno said:


> So, would you pay more for 12 applications vs 10 applications?
> 
> This isn't that kind of contract.
> 
> Matters none how much I am there, the pay is the same. What does matter is how much i spend on material and my own time.


How would the customer know how much a application costs to know what their charged for ?

It's not as much, what you spent for the salt
But how much you made from it.

Even with a
"Matters none how much I am there"
contract, one has to know their costs
Or you won't know what your profit margin is.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Hydromaster said:


> It's not as much what you spent for the salt
> But how much you made.
> 
> Even with a
> ...


As mentioned above, i know exactly down to the cent what my costs vs profits are. got it covered.

what i spent for the salt is a very big factor, the most costly material aside from the truck purchase. Then you have fuel, maintenance, and of course my time. But i do agree, it's not what i spent on the salt so much as what i made. similar to how it's not so much how many times i dumped vs what i actually made, yet here you are, saying the same thing while also chastising me for not knowing how many times i dumped. wierd.

This is one account, it's not hard for me to determine costs and profit.

M-ice, did you salt any one account more than 10 or 12 times? just curious to know how many times you had to dump vs myself.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> doesn't matter one lick to me. I do the work. I spend the time. I know the dollar amounts. I could care less if i spread salt 10 or 12 times. As long as I know how many hours I spent and how much material I used. And i know both of those because I keep a log of how much time i spent in that parking lot during snow removal operations. The number of times i spread salt is not a factor. Does 1 hopper count as a full spread, is half a hopper a half spread? are we now using decimals? What is a factor, time, material, fuel, etc. Not 10 or 12.


Good luck


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

rippinryno said:


> As mentioned above, i know exactly down to the cent what my costs vs profits are. got it covered.
> 
> what i spent for the salt is a very big factor, the most costly material aside from the truck purchase. Then you have fuel, maintenance, and of course my time.
> 
> ...


How can this be, you don't even know if you applied salt 10 or 12 times.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> 5 plow events and a dozen salt runs is a solid season??? Really?


It could be with a seasonal contract, but he doesn't know his operational costs 
So it's a crapshoot


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

we can do without the insults or underhanded derogatory comments towards one another...so, please refrain from doing so or please do not post in the thread

thanks


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> Actually, no, I do not know. Sometimes it's a half hopper, sometimes it's a full hopper, sometimes it's 2 full hoppers, sometimes it's 1.5 hoppers.
> 
> I can absolutely tell you how much I've spent in salt and ice melt and that's all that matters. It's not a per salt application, so frankly, as long as I can keep it clean, i'm not keeping a tally on many times i drive the truck around the parking lot to spread salt. Long as I know what i'm spending, that's it.
> 
> I will say that I know it's around 10-12 and for me, that's good enough.





Michael J. Donovan said:


> we can do without the insults or underhanded derogatory comments towards one another...so, please refrain from doing so or please do not post in the thread
> 
> thanks


Since personal attacks are prohibited here, please don't take it as such:

that has to be one of the stupidest business plans I've ever seen/or heard about.

If you can't keep up with one little account, learn from it with good numbers and facts, how do you intend to grow? When or how you going to teach yourself how to fit other projects, This isn't grass cutting for a living.

Ryan's lawn care service, sounds like a business disaster in the waiting to happen, And here's why I say this.

Say on January 7th, you had a slip and fall, elderly person is broken a hip or a wrist or what not, you have to assist in defending yourself...... And you got nothing, you don't even know of you salted that day.

Sounds like this business is far from a business.

Michael I've only addressed his business plan or lacked there off, nothing personal just what I believe in a hard facts.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> Since personal attacks are prohibited here, please don't take it as such:
> 
> that has to be one of the stupidest business plans I've ever seen/or heard about.
> 
> ...


Sure sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about.

I can look at my records and tell you exactly how many hours, what days, the amount of salt, the amount of time plowing, as well as the exact forecast. I have records down to the minute showing when i was there and what I was doing. I also have them documented in event logs which take into consideration temperatures, precipitation and several other things in relation to the weather at the time. I can also tell you my expenses down to the penny. This is all required by the national company and it's on record. Now, did that go the way you thought it would? No, because you've made a whole schpeel of assumptions. What i do not know, at this moment is how many full hoppers i've dumped. I am counting my salt runs based on a 500lb hopper and I don't know exactly how many times it's actually been full. Does it count if i salt, then clear, then salt again 5 hours later when the storm is over, is that 1 or two salts? See, that's why i gave a 10-12 figure there, because as far as I can remember, without pulling out logs, that's as many times as I emptied a full hopper.

Please don't insult my business model based on your assumptions.

Pick a time to fall in the lot, let me know when it happened and i'll tell you when it was cleared and show you photos of operations in progress or it being clear.

I run a business, and it's not a disaster, you can kindly withdraw your false claims and apologize, thanks.

The jab at my lawn services is something funny as well as though snow removal is far superior to cutting grass for a living.


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm just passing through but I don't see a major "game changing" (new negative use ) hole in the ops plan of attack, he's much more detail oriented than I'll ever be, and I've made millions lol. Then again I don't even know what the point of this thread is,i'll move along now, I smell something cooking in the "Random food for thoughts" thread.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Thanks Leigh. The real point of this thread is to show some of the other guys that snow removal can be done regardless of how terribly offensive and negative some folks comments are. 

I am more than covering my @$$ when it comes to liability here. This isn't cutting grass as one person already said, but the years of experience running my own lawn care business does in fact overlap into this. I work with national companies in that field too and completely understand the need and requests to take photos, document work done, time, weather, etc. 

It truly is a shame that some people get so offended that they resort to insulting my company and my methods. I am still wondering how m y business plan with this one parking lot is in fact so stupid. My CPA,friends, and colleagues in the field sure don't seem to think that way.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

It all your work through a NSP?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Regarding snow removal. Yes.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> Regarding snow removal. Yes.


That makes sense....
I've never worked for a NSP however have seen the T & C' in their contracts and each required documentation along with pics when you invoice. Assuming the NSP you're working for has the same or similar requirements and you should know how many salt applications you've had so far this year.


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Its 16° today...winter is over


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

m_ice said:


> Its 16° today...winter is over


Mowing in jorts?


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Mowing in jorts?


Yes


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BUFF said:


> It all your work through a NSP?





BUFF said:


> That makes sense....
> I've never worked for a NSP however have seen the T & C' in their contracts and each required documentation along with pics when you invoice. Assuming the NSP you're working for has the same or similar requirements and you should know how many salt applications you've had so far this year.


From what I've experienced and heard on the playground, besides having to upload date stamped pics, etc the pay doesn't come in a timely manner and if the pics aren't exactly what they want, they may not pay at all. 
Hopefully, the OP has been getting paid. I'd hate to see a guy go buy a truck, supply salt and spend time only to get stiffed. Not a good way to get into the biz.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Not all NSPs require pictures, and not all NSPs are a pain in the ass to work with. We’ve worked with three or four for more than one event, and only one was slow at paying. we did some work for Farendino for a single event a few years ago and they tried to short is like 3% or something we collected on that, but even they didn’t require pictures iirc. I think taking pictures is important part of servicing any lot though, especially if there’s property damage on the lot prior to your arrival


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Not all NSPs require pictures, and not all NSPs are a pain in the ass to work with. We've worked with three or four for more than one event, and only one was slow at paying. we did some work for Farendino for a single event a few years ago and they tried to short is like 3% or something we collected on that, but even they didn't require pictures iirc. I think taking pictures is important part of servicing any lot though, especially if there's property damage on the lot prior to your arrival


I've done work for good and bad NSPs. Some that required pics and some that didn't. 
My point is putting all your eggs in one basket can be a recipe for disaster. Hopefully, the OP is working for a good, reputable NSP.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

EWSplow said:


> I've done work for good and bad NSPs. Some that required pics and some that didn't.
> My point is putting all your eggs in one basket can be a recipe for disaster. Hopefully, the OP is working for a good, reputable NSP.


Understood


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Appreciate all the concerns. Had to put my eggs in a basket to get off the ground. Luckily this season will be quite lucrative even after all expenses.


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> After clearing wed night into thurs morning for 2 weeks in a row and a couple revisits for salt, it's starting to wrap up.
> 
> Nothing is certain, but based on our forecast, we're looking to be good to go until spring. Long term forecast shows no snow the rest of February. Maybe we get something in March, but still quite unlikely based on the past snowfalls, at most it would require salt.
> 
> ...


So whats the forecast now for your area?


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

https://www.weather.gov/ilx/spi-snow-misc

Interesting weather for March since 1881..... March ranks high for the most snow.

"Maybe we get something in March, but still quite unlikely based on the past snowfalls, at most it would require salt.".......HA


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

NO snow in my forecast for the next 10 days. The average snowfall for march in my area is just over 2 inches. It hardly ranks high for snow, but I hear ya, we could get dumped on anytime in the next month without question.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

1olddogtwo said:


> https://www.weather.gov/ilx/spi-snow-misc
> 
> Interesting weather for March since 1881..... March ranks high for the most snow.
> 
> "Maybe we get something in March, but still quite unlikely based on the past snowfalls, at most it would require salt.".......HA


March and April are our big snow months so far this year we've hit our 58" average snowfall amount for the year. Area's in the mtn's have more than 300" so far.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

my favorite ski destination in CO took over 50 inches in less than a week not long ago.


----------



## Green mentorship (Jul 29, 2019)

Just for fun, I'm going to summarize this. 

1) you took a seasonal account from a National.
2) before winter is over, you're here telling us how awesome this was
3) we try to tell you that you're counting your chickens before they hatch.
4) you get upset and defensive.

Did I get that mostly right?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Green mentorship said:


> Just for fun, I'm going to summarize this.
> 
> 1) you took a seasonal account from a National.
> 2) before winter is over, you're here telling us how awesome this was
> ...


Winter isn't over, i'm aware, however in my neck of the woods, the target months for heavy snowfall are behind us.

That was fun, you're right.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Green mentorship said:


> Just for fun, I'm going to summarize this.
> 
> 1) you took a seasonal account from a National.
> 2) before winter is over, you're here telling us how awesome this was
> ...


To summarize: Yes


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

rippinryno said:


> Winter isn't over, i'm aware, however in my neck of the woods, the target months for heavy snowfall are behind us.
> 
> That was fun, you're right.


Salting only is more fun anyways, and there's plenty of days left for that


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

rippinryno said:


> my favorite ski destination in CO took over 50 inches in less than a week not long ago.


From the local ski hill,









March is the snowiest month of the year.
At this rate I could salt 19 or 23 Times but who's counting.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Salting only is more fun anyways, and there's plenty of days left for that


Boy do I agree with that! I think i'm in the right part of the country as well. The back and forth plowing gets old. AS does the revisits to salt around my piles so they don't become ice slicks overnight.

I was out skiing 2 months ago and planned a 2nd trip to utilize my pass, but I don't think it'll happen unless it's late march....by then the snow just isn't the same in most cases.



Hydromaster said:


> From the local ski hill,
> 
> View attachment 201283
> 
> ...


yeah, not here.

If you salt in the morning, and then salt again 2 hours later because ice falls, are you counting that as 1 salt or 2 salts?


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> my favorite ski destination in CO took over 50 inches in less than a week not long ago.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

i prefer winter park over steamboat.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Per application. So,2. 

Only thing that’s included in my seasonals is snow plowing,Everything else is à la carte.

When I plowed per-push if I plow @6am
And the trigger was met again at noon,
I would plow again if the trigger was met yet again at 2 PM I would plow it for a third time charging for three times, same for salt.

Regardless of how many pounds of salt I applied because I applied salt per the conditions.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

rippinryno said:


> If you salt in the morning, and then salt again 2 hours later because ice falls, are you counting that as 1 salt or 2 salts?


If your contract is per application, that would be 2. However, if you didn't apply enough salt and the weather conditions hadn't changed, the 2nd salting may be unethical.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Ahh, ok so we can agree that we all count our saltings differently. There have been times where only certain areas are slick, i will dump a half hopper there, and then other times where the whole lot is slick and i'm dumping 2 hoppers over a several hour period of ice fall. This is where the amount of saltings can vary based on what you're counting. If i go back and use a push spreader to get around the piles and potential melt/freeze spots, i don't really count that as a salt, although it's documented as one.


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

rippinryno said:


> Ahh, ok so we can agree that we all count our saltings differently. There have been times where only certain areas are slick, i will dump a half hopper there, and then other times where the whole lot is slick and i'm dumping 2 hoppers over a several hour period of ice fall. This is where the amount of saltings can vary based on what you're counting. If i go back and use a push spreader to get around the piles and potential melt/freeze spots, i don't really count that as a salt, although it's documented as one.


Yes, there are several different ways a contract can be written. 
Most of us do what's in our contracts.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

it sounds like you’re discounting your time& salt.
Because you feel responsible for the water leaching out of your piles. ?

Did your clients direct you to pile snow in this location or is there a better location?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

right, which is why i really dont know how a guy can tell me i have a stupid business plan because i said 10-12 saltings without giving a solid number. Wasn't really called for but certainly entitled to their opinion.

What matters is that I know what works and while I'm new to snow removal it doesn't mean I'm not new to counting my costs. The overall risk for loss on this, even with a record snowfall, is low. We're nearing the end, according to averages and I'm just updating as I go.

My clients have not directed me where to pile, rather I told them where I would be piling. My obligation is to keep it slip free, that includes when a pile melts and then freezes. The areas I am piling on are low, the trail of water is minimal however, I do like to make sure that when temps drop i've got those spots clear. It's not costing me or killing me and this was all factored in.


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Hydromaster said:


> it sounds like you're discounting your time& salt.
> Because you feel responsible for the water leaching out of your piles. ?
> 
> Did your clients direct you to pile snow in this location or is there a better location?


I've had those. The client wanted snow piled near the building on a lot sloping away from the building, because they didn't want snow piled in the most logical spot, near the street, on the low end of the lot. In this case, more applications were needed due to thaw and refreeze.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> Ahh, ok so we can agree that we all count our saltings differently.


No we can't.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No we can't.


No worries Mark. I'm over here rocking a zero tolerance contract with somewhere between 10 and 12 saltings, depending on your own definition vs my contract.

You do you, i'll do me. And we'll all live happily ever after. My welds were supposed to break 4 storms ago. My pool salt was supposed to not work 8 salts ago. And my contract was supposed to not be zero tolerance 6 months ago, but here I am making money and keeping things clear for my customer. Who would have thought after receiving such critical comments from yourself that it I could get it done.


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No we can't.


Funny, this was bouncing around in my head this morning, as I was salting.


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

jonniesmooth said:


> Funny, this was bouncing around in my head this morning, as I was salting.


It sounds like you need a softer suspension...


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Its my understanding if you chose the location to stack the snow , you are responsible for the ice that from the water leaching out of your manmade pile of snow.
As a professional do you think it's ethical to charge them for a condition you created that required you to
Apply salt just to CYA?

Ps any action taken has a cost, regardless if it's factored in or not . Busisness 101


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Hydromaster said:


> Its my understanding if you chose the location to stack the snow , you are responsible for the ice that from the water leaching out of your manmade pile of snow.
> As a professional do you think it's ethical to charge them for a condition you created that required you to
> Apply salt just to CYA?
> 
> Ps any action taken has a cost, regardless if it's factored in or not . Busisness 101


Are you attempting to give me a helpful suggestion. Please go on.


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

rippinryno said:


> Are you attempting to give me a helpful suggestion. Please go on.


again, when people are offering good help/suggestions, no need to stir the pot with these types of remarks...


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

OP, 
You started this thread January 6th and I believe you stated you already had a couple salt applications in. 
I'm going to assume you invoiced your client for January. If so, did they have a problem with the way things were done and how you invoiced, assuming you salted the same then. If you invoiced for more than one application a day and they didn't have a problem with it, run with it.
Why ask others how they invoice, if you have a system that works?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

EWSplow said:


> OP,
> You started this thread January 6th and I believe you stated you already had a couple salt applications in.
> I'm going to assume you invoiced your client for January. If so, did they have a problem with the way things were done and how you invoiced, assuming you salted the same then. If you invoiced for more than one application a day and they didn't have a problem with it, run with it.
> Why ask others how they invoice, if you have a system that works?


No problems as of yet, the invoices are not per application though. I'm not asking as much as I am saying that we can agree we don't all do it the same. except mark says "no we can't" I was told that my business practice is bad because i don't know if i salted 10 or 12 times, that's what the application talk is all about.


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

rippinryno said:


> No problems as of yet, the invoices are not per application though. I'm not asking as much as I am saying that we can agree we don't all do it the same. except mark says "no we can't"


So, you're charging by the pound? 
If so, the 2nd application is also by the pound. 
If you have flat rate on salt for the season, which I have never done, the number of times you salt is a moot point.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

EWSplow said:


> If you have flat rate on salt for the season, which I have never done, the number of times you salt is a moot point.


Correct, which i did attempt to explain, however I was told it definitely matters and that I can't be running a legit business without knowing exaclty how many times i've dumped salt.

Fact is, at the end of the season, i will be able to tell you based on how much salt i put down, exactly how much they paid per lb.


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No we can't.


Dang,when I read that in my mind I heard my wife's voice. Somehow I'm thinking this thread has the ring of a setup ! Somethings off, and everyone seems to be unable to avoid the trap! Ego, arrogance ,Mr. Knowitalls ,or in my case a lighthearted dope who doesn't really give a %&*( ,its only snowplowing and every Tom, Dick and Harry is plowing and getting by just fine ! Now on my heavy equipment forum or constuction forum or environmental engineering sites its a much more technical crowd, but no kooky characters (self included) as on my favorite forum !


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

leigh said:


> Dang,when I read that in my mind I heard my wife's voice. Somehow I'm thinking this thread has the ring of a setup ! Somethings off, and everyone seems to be unable to avoid the trap! Ego, arrogance ,Mr. Knowitalls ,or in my case a lighthearted dope who doesn't really give a %&*( ,its only snowplowing and every Tom, Dick and Harry is plowing and getting by just fine ! Now on my heavy equipment forum or constuction forum or environmental engineering sites its a much more technical crowd, but no kooky characters (self included) as on my favorite forum !


I think if the gubnerment gave us funds for a study, we would find the more book smart the group the stuffier they will be. 
Conversely,those who have more practical knowledge from doing things are more funner.


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

So chicken counter, what's the forecast for you now?

Mine is 84F here in Orlando, with 6 to 10 @ home.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> So chicken counter, what's the forecast for you now?
> 
> Mine is 84F here in Orlando, with 6 to 10 @ home.


rain, rain, and more rain. I do see that chitown is calling for snow, we're too far south of you.

There's a chance sometime tues night that it turns into freezing rain and so I'm prepared to dump salt if need be, but most of what i'm hearing is saying all rain.

did that go the way you wanted it to? your remark seemed a bit snarky, as though you were expecting a response that we were getting dumped on with snow. Either way, those are the facts, hope you get your lots clear!


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

leigh said:


> its only snowplowing and every Tom, Dick and Harry is plowing and getting by just fine ! Now on my heavy equipment forum or constuction forum or environmental engineering sites its a much more technical crowd, but no kooky characters (self included) as on my favorite forum !


that's the truth, I feel that I have more than covered my arse in this contract, yet people continue throw out ridiculous assumptions and claims. I find it funny that one person said "this isn't cutting grass" as though it's some sort of rocket science in comparison.....


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Like i said, all rain. If things change, I'll be ready, still February, but not looking like it's going to amount to anything especially with the warm weather and rain that comes with it. I prefer to listen to my local weather folks, they tend to be more in line with what generally happens in our area. If a day comes that I need to seek your forecast, i'll surely ask.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> again, when people are offering good help/suggestions, no need to stir the pot with these types of remarks...


The problem is that you incorrectly took my remark as being rude. You need to delete your comment as you're not in this conversation nor are you aware that i was actually asking the guy if he's helping me. He hasn't offered any help, all he has done is assume, but, alas, you take sides and blame me. Please show me in his post where he offred me help? all he did was make assumptions that don't apply to me. This is my thread, I truly do not need you babysitting it and accusing me of making "pot stirring remarks". Thank you have a good day

take a look one post above here, there's a guy stirring the pot, yet you're gone, silent, because you prefer to target me and my threads.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

I was attempting to give you some help based in relality.

You say you know everything yet you don’t know your numbers.

A national will not pay when they see
10 or 12 times. It sends up red flags.

Next you will tell us you got paid in full.
When most all nationals pay 60- 90days after reviving the invoice. 


See ya....:waving:


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Hydromaster said:


> I was attempting to give you some help based in relality.
> 
> You say you know everything yet you don't know your numbers.
> 
> ...


1. I didn't say I know everything.
2. This national has paid every time.
3. I believe I already said when I get paid, please read the thread or else do not post in it. My national pays net 30 from the date of invoice. typically right at 60 days from the first service of that billed month.

Once again, you're stirring the pot, making assumptions, and have very little knowledge of what you're talking about regarding my contract. Time to move on.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Your not the boss of anyone and you do not control who posts.


I gain knowledge by asking questions.
What National are you working for?


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I am still trying to figure out where you've helped. All i'm seeing are assumptions, i've given several explanations as to how this contract is setup and operating. Then you come on here and tell me i won't get paid and that if i put 10-12 in a bill they won't pay.


who the heck said i put 10-12 on a bill? That's what i put on here and an estimate as to how many times i've salted. it doesn't matter though, not a bit.

You really need to lighten up like the other guy was saying. You're making it sound like nobody can operate a business except you. I've been working in nationals for a bit now, in both fields of my business. I could do without your assumptions, but i do appreciate the concern. You just do not know what you're talking about in my case and it offends you when i tell you that it doesn't matter how many times i estimate my salt applications, nor does it matter how I do it. So, in your case, maybe it does. In mine, it really doesn't, not until the season is over and i can figure my totals.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Why can’t you stop stirring the pot
And answer my question?

What National are you working for?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I'd rather not, but do appreciate your concern.


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

Hydromaster said:


> Why can't you stop stirring the pot
> And answer my question?
> 
> What National are you working for?


ok, let's move on...no need to keep antagonizing

please, back to the discussion at hand

thanks


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

rippinryno said:


> I'd rather not, but do appreciate your concern.


That throws up a big red flag.

If, if you work for a national your contract with them will be very similar to their other contracts. There's nothing Propitiatory in their contracts as their all the same
For all of their contractors.

Knowing who the is National would go towards your credibility and it would answer 
A few questions and limit thoes pesky 
Assumptions.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> ok, let's move on...no need to keep antagonizing
> 
> please, back to the discussion at hand
> 
> thanks


I was not antagonizing, like the OP is...
I was just asking a question that he should be able to answer.

I didn't think asking what National he is working for
Is out of line, when he brings it up.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Hydromaster said:


> That throws up a big red flag.
> 
> If, if you work for a national your contract with them will be very similar to their other contracts. There's nothing Propitiatory in their contracts as their all the same
> For all of their contractors.
> ...


I'm not here to prove credibility. If that's what you require, i'd suggest ignoring my posts.

Most of the assumptions you have made have already been addressed in this thread. It's as though you haven't read it at all.


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

I'd like to see it open until winter is really over.
Let the OP post if it is as profitable as he said in early January. JMO


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> ok, let's move on...no need to keep antagonizing
> 
> please, back to the discussion at hand
> 
> thanks


It's hot here in Orlando, so there's still hope for some of us.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

EWSplow said:


> I'd like to see it open until winter is really over.
> Let the OP post if it is as profitable as he said in early January. JMO


exactly, why not wait for numbers, that's the entire reason i posted this thread. To show guys that contrary to the constant questioning and doubting and assuming, a guy can give it a go.


----------



## ggb6259 (Jan 14, 2010)

Can we just kill this thread already.... Been a long and boring winter.... please....


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

rippinryno said:


> I'm not here to prove credibility. If that's what you require, i'd suggest ignoring my posts.
> 
> Most of the assumptions you have made have already been addressed in this thread. It's as though you haven't read it at all.


 The sooner you realize the post that are annoying you are for personal enjoyment and have no rime or reason you will be better off.

I see we are getting into a old routine without consequences. Some have been banned for this behavior already. Others know the limit and will give into this behavior before something bad happens.

I'm not saying to back off with your replies, just know the reasoning behind this behavior. See how you average out at the end of the season and call it a day.

Learn from where you took a lump if any and keep moving forward.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

You are right Fred. There are so many red flags to some of these guys, and they're all based on their own assumptions. Seems a bit off base, very off. In other news, the Chicago guy may have been right, our forecast has now moved to 1-2 inches for tonight/tomorrow, looks like another round may be in the books.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Chalk up another salt dump. I also went back to my logs and counted the salt visits. There have only been 10 in total including this morning. 6 of those stops required plowing as well. Based on my receipts I am at right around 3 tons of salt dropped so I am around $600 in salt on the season.

May get a couple inches this morning so I could end up back to plowing sometime today, all depends on the temps, we're riding right around 33 degrees right now.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> Chalk up another salt dump. I also went back to my logs and counted the salt visits. There have only been 10 in total including this morning. 6 of those stops required plowing as well. Based on my receipts I am at right around 3 tons of salt dropped so I am around $600 in salt on the season.
> 
> May get a couple inches this morning so I could end up back to plowing sometime today, all depends on the temps, we're riding right around 33 degrees right now.


You're paying $200/ton for pool salt? 
In another thread you said it was $.50 for a 40# bag or $25/ton, where the additional $525.00 cost coming from.
https://www.plowsite.com/threads/pool-salt-any-good-as-ice-melt.177793/


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Pool salt ran out 2 tons ago. In that same thread i believe i mentioned limited supply. It was good while it lasted


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BUFF said:


> You're paying $200/ton for pool salt?
> In another thread you said it was $.50 for a 40# bag or $25/ton, where the additional $525.00 cost coming from.
> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/pool-salt-any-good-as-ice-melt.177793/


Have you been hanging out with @Philbilly2 ? 
Bringing math and logic into a discussion.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

The math was right, the logic that the .50 end of year discount would be all winter long was wrong.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> Pool salt ran out 2 tons ago. In that same thread i believe i mentioned limited supply. It was good while it lasted


Ok...far enough.
1 ton of pool salt and 2 tons of undisclosed product. Known cost of pool salt is $25/ton per your other thread which means the other 2tons cost $287.50/ton. Much be some awesome stuff.


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Been a lackluster season.


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

then no need to respond to the thread if you don't want to converse with him...just move on then


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

BUFF said:


> Ok...far enough.
> 1 ton of pool salt and 2 tons of undisclosed product. Known cost of pool salt is $25/ton per your other thread which means the other 2tons cost $287.50/ton. Much be some awesome stuff.


Thanks for the refresher on my totals. Thought I gave the balance already but always good to make sure the numbers are right!

I've be using robomelt mixed with standard stuff for the last few rounds now. Before that I was dumping softener salt for like $5 a bag.

Can you believe my local siteone is no longer stocking regular rocksalt. On top of that i took the last 15 bags on a pellet and 3 of them were wide open.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> then no need to respond to the thread if you don't want to converse with him...just move on then


I'm going to bail now, this has run it's coarse and no reason to tempt fate.


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

BUFF said:


> I'm going to bail now, this has run it's coarse and no reason to tempt fate.


I've been following it along. Keeping my opinions quiet.


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Randall Ave said:


> I've been following it along. Keeping my opinions quiet.


Same Here


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

BUFF said:


> Ok...far enough.
> 1 ton of pool salt and 2 tons of undisclosed product. Known cost of pool salt is $25/ton per your other thread which means the other 2tons cost $287.50/ton. Much be some awesome stuff.


My bagged salt is 49 50# bags per pallet. Sale price with tax $209.33 for 2450#
Full price $287.83


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

jonniesmooth said:


> My bagged salt is 49 50# bags per pallet. Sale price with tax $209.33 for 2450#
> Full price $287.83


My turn to be @Philbilly2 :
$170.88 / ton when it's on sale, $234.96 / ton when its not.


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

EWSplow said:


> My turn to be @Philbilly2 :
> $170.88 / ton when it's on sale, $234.96 / ton when its not.


I suppose you could make them take 9 bags off the pallet, if you want to. That's why I buy the pallet, they load it with a forklift. I don't have to throw bags by hand. 
I can put 2 pallets on the trailer.
I know that's not the direction you were going. You were going apples to apples.


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I have bulk slicer delivered for 90 bucks a ton to each of our shops (my regular job) they either use shovel, or buckets pre-filled to load tailgate spreaders.


Bags we're too expensive, and these yahoo's over salt and can't plow worth a damn.


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> I have bulk slicer delivered for 90 bucks a ton


Damn...alot better than I'm doing.
Is it coming out of Lemont?


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

m_ice said:


> Damn...alot better than I'm doing.
> Is it coming out of Lemont?


You know I know people, and those people know other people, and some of those people know my people but they don't know all people, that's why need so many people because their are a lot of people, and can't know all the people.


----------



## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

Haven't been on here much this winter as we only had 3 events so pretty slow year .Figure ill give my two cents before this gets shut down .I read both threads . First thing I noticed is you seem like you don't like to take advice. Almost all the guys posting have been plowing for years and most are trying to help you out . You have to have thick skin to survive around here so you shouldn't take every comment as a put down. You really need to read between the lines and sort out all the useful info.

You said your working for a management co so chances are you let them set the price or you were the lowest bidder . Chances are you probably left money on the table . Then you seem proud that you proved them all wrong about the welds not breaking . Just luck . What was your plan if they did break .Never heard you talk about a backup plan if they did . Did you have one ? When your fuel line leaked you were just lucky it wasn't snowing . Again just lucky . Then you fixed it with a patch instead of fixing it right . Bet it blows again soon .

Glad you got lucky and made it through the season without any major breakdowns. But don't confuse luck as skill. Not a good business plan.

Take as much advise as you can from these guys .They are all professionals who will be the first to help you out if you don't alienate them
Have a great summer .


----------



## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

Ok one more thing . Noticed you are using some weirdo salt which is all well and good but if you god forbid you have a slip and fall and the lawyers want to see your salt receipts and find out you are using a product not standard to the industry . It might not go over to well . You might want to rethink that . Penny wise and dollar stupid . Don't count on luck and think it won't happen . It happens .


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Fuel line was likely leaking when it snowed. I fixed it. Salt is salt. If my lot is clear im not going to be sued for using fine salt which actually works faster vs coarse salt. 

Another incorrect assumption....i set my price. They accepted it. I left no money on the table since i set the price according to my numbers. Yes it could have been a risk had we got snow every day. Even then i would make money. I will do well on this contract at seasons end.

If my welds broke id have then fixed again. This is a budget operation.

There was literally zero luck for me this year. I did what i did to make sure my customer was happy. You arent really thinking that my salt would void a contrwct sue to it being faster acting and cleaner than rock salt would you?

Ive no doubt there are proefessionals here. Theres also some non professionals.

If i would have bet on the fuel line and welds breaking id be rich because just like the rest of them, you are incorrect. And if you saw and felt the parking lot that i clear it would blow your mind what the welds have had to endure.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

rippinryno said:


> Fuel line was likely leaking when it snowed. I fixed it. Salt is salt. If my lot is clear im not going to be sued for using fine salt which actually works faster vs coarse salt.
> 
> Another incorrect assumption....i set my price. They accepted it. I left no money on the table since i set the price according to my numbers. Yes it could have been a risk had we got snow every day. Even then i would make money. I will do well on this contract at seasons end.
> 
> ...


You have so much wisdom, you should do consulting...


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Or...dont post if youre just coming to jab. Maybe ban the offenders and all will be well


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

It’s time to close this pathetic thread


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

there's no need to keep making uncalled for comments, etc...just ignore the thread and leave it alone


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Was out there this morning wrapping some stuff up, hoping we are done for the season. I've done some totals and figured out where I am at. So far we're looking at very positive numbers and I am glad I have been able to service this account effectively. While there are a lot of considerations, I will say that I hope I can show some of the new guys or some of the smaller guys that this type of deal can and will work but you have to dive in. Do not let yourself be scared by "wrong salt" or rough looking plows. They're plow trucks, they plow snow, don't dig to deep like I did here and get yourself worried with some of the assumptions given.

All in all, the setup worked, the plow held up and man is it rough. The pool salt was extremely effective and the cost was ridiculous. Cost me more to move it to the lot than it does to buy it at the store. The remainder of the time i used the bulk salt which I used more than twice the amount of it since the pool salt ran out early in the year. The bulk salt was fine, had some issues with chunks but otherwise worked just fine and didn't kill the salt budget.

My insurance and dealing with the national company are all completely worth it. I set my price, I made sure I was covered under their contract and went through the proper steps to get this done. I will say that so many folks think they are above this and that they know better than the guy. It saddens me to see assumptions based on misinformation. I was told I didn't take pictures, didn't have proof of service, left money on the table, had bad plow setup, was liable based on the salt I used, etc, etc, etc. 

Having a look at this thread it's very obvious this is not the site to come to with a new plan to start plowing snow. There are way too many chiefs here who think it's their job to assume the worst without knowing anything regarding the contract or liabilities, or costs. They simply assume and turn you a n egative ear. These people have lost site.

I truly hope there are some people looking to get into the game that can look at this thread and see a guy can do it.


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

New guys?
Do you mean like someone starting this week?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

EWSplow said:


> New guys?
> Do you mean like someone starting this week?


No...starting in March.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No...starting in March.


March has been slow the past couple years. April is where we've made money.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

EWSplow said:


> March has been slow the past couple years. April is where we've made money.


Do you send a refund in March and then bill for April services?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I mean somebody who's starting next season, or this week, or somebody who may already be around and is nervous about getting into a larger commercial setup vs just doing driveways. Ya know, pretty much anybody who is newer to this.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> getting into a larger commercial setup


and you know about this? do tell...


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do you send a refund in March and then bill for April services?


I used last March's income to put gas in the truck to drive to the bank to deposit the checks. Almost broke even.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

EWSplow said:


> I used last March's income to put gas in the truck to drive to the bank to deposit the checks. Almost broke even.


What about the smoking budget and mortgage that you paid your recurring customers bills with?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> and you know about this? do tell...


Given the context of my post i was saying larger commercial vs doing residential driveways. So, a commercial like what I would be considered quite a bit larger. The lot requires the plow truck and a spreader no smaller than what I have. If you were doing driveways with a snowblower and a plow setup before, this would be the next step.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

rippinryno said:


> My insurance and dealing with the national company are all completely worth it. I set my price, I made sure I was covered under their contract and went through the proper steps to get this done.


I just can't let this pass. what national company covered you under their insurance.

I've worked for a national and so do many others on this site, I do not believe anyone has been covered under a national service provider's insurance policy .


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What about the smoking budget and mortgage that you paid your recurring customers bills with?


Fortunately, I have another business .


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Hydromaster said:


> I just can't let this pass. what national company covered you under their insurance.
> 
> I've worked for a national and so do many others on this site, I do not believe anyone has been covered under a national service provider's insurance policy .
> 
> Did you hire a lawyer?


That's ok, calm down sir. At no point in time did I say that i was using the national companies insurance provider.

My insurance coverage is my own, it has me covered in regards to their snow removal contract.

I apologize if you read that to say that i was using the nationals insurance.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> Given the context of my post i was saying larger commercial vs doing residential driveways. So, a commercial like what I would be considered quite a bit larger. The lot requires the plow truck and a spreader no smaller than what I have. If you were doing driveways with a snowblower and a plow setup before, this would be the next step.


Ah... understood.

I guess larger commercial in my mind cannot be handled by 1 pickup truck.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Ah... understood.
> 
> I guess larger commercial in my mind cannot be handled by 1 pickup truck.


I'm going to get 1 WallyWorld per truck.


----------



## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

So Could you share the numbers ? Really like to know what you made for The season on this 2 acre lot verses the expenses. 
You know 
truck 
insurance
salt 
fuel
repairs 
labor 
beer
ect


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm going to get 1 WallyWorld per truck.


You are better than me then, I could never handle any of the wal marts i did with only one truck on a site.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Rest assured, it takes more than your storyline To get me riled up. 
You can say you made $$$,
You can tell us whatever you wish.
Your guidance doesn’t pass the smell test.



Did you hire a lawyer to help you with
Their contract?

Maybe you need a fer more PM’s from the peanut gallery?


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I'm starting a lawn business this month, so there's still hope for the rest of us.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

quigleysiding said:


> beer


you can't factor beer... it always blows the budget... :laugh:


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Hydromaster said:


> Rest assured, it takes more than your storyline To get me riled up.
> You can say you made $$$,
> You can tell us whatever you wish.
> Your guidance doesn't pass the smell test.
> ...


Sorry, what's the question here? You don't believe what I say? Sorry can't help you there bud. Prolly best to move on if you don't have interest. I'm not a liar, I"m not here to make up stories, and i don't need your 2nd guessing with more fake assumptions. move on.

I am happy to answer questions pertaining to the operations, but you're just jabbing still and it's sad.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

1olddogtwo said:


> I'm starting a lawn business this month, so there's still hope for the rest of us.


That reminded me, I need to weld the blades back together on my push mower


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

how about you leave the thread be and we will see how the OP finishes up the season and how it worked out for him? no need for the continued baiting, assumptions. etc.

thanks


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Anyways, I am going to be quite successful despite all you naysayers.

Regardless of you who say a tractor is better than a zero turn, going with a push mower, non-motorized and a battery operated weed wacker, ....why, cuz there's still hope for some of us


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> how about you leave the thread be and we will see how the OP finishes up the season and how it worked out for him? no need for the continued baiting, assumptions. etc.
> 
> thanks


Becuse while he says he's not a fibber

He wouldn't answer key questions
From myself or other members.
Like the name of the National
Or my last one, did he hire a lawyer?

A lot of us started out as one man shows.we have an idea what it takes to start a business. we have an idea of what it takes to make money with one truck.We have an idea what it's like to work for a national because we have
we have been on this road and what he's posting doesn't pass the smell test for many

You are the boss and we'll let it roll ....


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> how about you leave the thread be and we will see how the OP finishes up the season and how it worked out for him? no need for the continued baiting, assumptions. etc.
> 
> thanks


That's basically what I said a week ago. 
Keep in mind that the OP posted this morning how great of a season he had. One would assume his season is done, if he's claiming profits for the season. 
One season of a lower than average snowfall has created an illusion in the OP's mind that this is an easy business. He is trying to give advice to others starting out in the business as if his one successful season makes him a mentor. 
Most of the responses in this thread are of the reality of the business and everyone who has responded have decades of experience in the business. 
I for one wouldn't want a newbie to read only one person's experience and think this business is easy and the money just pours in and expenses don't exist. 
This is just my opinion.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

EWSplow said:


> That's basically what I said a week ago.
> Keep in mind that the OP posted this morning how great of a season he had. One would assume his season is done, if he's claiming profits for the season.
> One season of a lower than average snowfall has created an illusion in the OP's mind that this is an easy business. He is trying to give advice to others starting out in the business as if his one successful season makes him a mentor.
> Most of the responses in this thread are of the reality of the business and everyone who has responded have decades of experience in the business.
> ...


Need to set some fake news straight here.

This season was slightly over average snowfall.

I am not giving advice to anybody i'm just showing that i was able to get it done whilst being attacked for bad welds, wierd salt, and national companies.

Nobody is ever claiming easy money, but snow does bring it good money and it's not rocket science either.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

EWSplow said:


> I for one wouldn't want a newbie to read only one person's experience and think this business is easy and the money just pours in and expenses don't exist.


Not to mention...a newbie with only ONE customer.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Hydromaster said:


> A lot of us started out as one man shows.we have an idea what it takes to start a business. we have an idea of what it takes to make money with one truck.We have an idea what it's like to work for a national because we have
> we have been on this road and what he's posting doesn't pass the smell test for many
> 
> You are the boss and we'll let it roll ....


I have been working with nationals for years now. I also have been running a business for years now. I also have an idea what it takes to make money with one truck.

Sorry you do not believe any of that.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> I have been working with nationals for years now. I also have been running a business for years now. I also have an idea what it takes to make money with one truck.
> 
> Sorry you do not believe any of that.


6 years!


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not to mention...a newbie with only ONE customer.


in a no snow area


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I feel like I was able to take on this single account and service it to the industry standards and the agreement that was made. I will give myself credit for not getting in too deep and for being able to manage the account that I was awarded.

At no point have i claimed to be the advice giver for large operations, full time service, or heavy snowfall areas. But man was I told i paid too much to make the plow more solid. And was I ever scolded for using that pool salt in my spreader, and for overpaying for the rest of the salt, and for working with a national company....that's the point here. I come in running this location and this account as smooth as I can , and i'll tell you it went smooth, but along came so many false assumptions that I felt the need to constantly have to fix fake news.

It's getting done, and I'm making money with very minimal expenses.


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

How does one manage to alienate just about everybody in a few short months.

Personally, I think he's a true snow professional.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Some guys learn from hardknox and nobody is going to tell them how to run there business. We got fireman here that jumped into lawns and snow and ice with both feet and no prior experience and produced some decent size company's.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> Appreciate all the concerns. Had to put my eggs in a basket to get off the ground. *Luckily this season *will be quite lucrative even after all expenses.





rippinryno said:


> *There was literally zero luck for me this year.* I did what i did to make sure my customer was happy. You arent really thinking that my salt would void a contrwct sue to it being faster acting and cleaner than rock salt would you?
> 
> Ive no doubt there are proefessionals here. Theres also some non professionals.
> 
> If i would have bet on the fuel line and welds breaking id be rich because just like the rest of them, you are incorrect. And if you saw and felt the parking lot that i clear it would blow your mind what the welds have had to endure.


More conflicting disinformation.


----------



## SilverPine (Dec 7, 2018)

To my understanding, this site is for help, advice and some laughs. This thread here has very little value other and sounding like your bragging. If found a new idea/system for profiting in the winter, that's great! If you dont care to share even minimal information, all I hear is "look at me". 

I understand that you do not seem credible to alot of guys here. Help prove them wrong or keep those thoughts/stories to yourself. Its almost like you just want to stir the pot and get a rise out of everyone. 

I did not read every post on this thread so I apologize if I missed something.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Right on, i thought i outlined my methods fairly well here. If you read the thread you will see that i've answered a plethora of the concerns and assumptions that came my way regarding this account.

For my own reasons I do not feel the need to specify the specifics on the account, i've shown photos of the parking lot, satellite images, explained what the contract amount was, how much i've spent in salt, etc.


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## SilverPine (Dec 7, 2018)

It's not so much the clients name/details I'm worried about, as I'm hesitant to give out clients info as well, especially when it comes to contract details. 

It's the insurance. Being involved in 2 lawsuits over a 10 year span has taught me that the lawyers will pick apart the smallest details in any contract. Salt is always the major topic. Where was it purchased, when, how much applied, operator experience and down to the brand of the salter. Insurance and contracts are not something to take lightly. Trying different things in the industry, you may want to consult your lawyer and insurance company. 

Again, apologize for not reading it all, its basically a novel at this point.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

That is good info. I find myself to be more worried about getting sued that most of my counter parts who do the same thing in my area. Many of which I am friends with so we do discuss. I get a lot of shrugs saying "i'm insured" from those guys. 

I don't know if I am worried enough, however I am diligent about taking photos and making sure the lot is clear before I leave it. The revisits to make sure my snow piles aren't creating ice slicks are regular as well. Most of my salt comes from a supplier, aside form the first bit of pool salt, which wasn't even a full pallet. I am in constant contact with my insurance guy. I already carried a heavy policy for the same national company for the lawn season so we just had to add the location as well as the plowing and that was it. 

I could consult a lawyer next season if it's what most are recommending, but I do feel I am more than covering myself with the checkins, photos, salt receipts. salt occurances by gps check in and photos, weather, storm totals, etc. 

I actually spent more time doing that paperwork than I have clearing the lot, it's monthly and has to be detailed.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SilverPine said:


> To my understanding, this site is for help, advice and some laughs. This thread here has very little value other and sounding like your bragging. If found a new idea/system for profiting in the winter, that's great! If you dont care to share even minimal information, all I hear is "look at me".
> 
> I understand that you do not seem credible to alot of guys here. Help prove them wrong or keep those thoughts/stories to yourself. Its almost like you just want to stir the pot and get a rise out of everyone.
> 
> I did not read every post on this thread so I apologize if I missed something. Nevermind you caught it by the time I posted.


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> I feel like I was able to take on this single account and service it to the industry standards and the agreement that was made.


So you performed a pre-season site inspection on your site? You staked it, installed caution signs, documented all the existing site conditions and took pictures before the winter started? You perform post-event inspections with documentation after each storm? If you're not doing these things (and more) you really have no idea what the written industry standards are.

And if you think winter is over on March 2nd, you still have a lot to learn.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Yea i do all of that and then some as required by the national. We actually did 2 inspection walk throughs prior to the official pre season site marking. The lot is documented at every visit.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

So you installed caution signage on this site warning the public? 

For some reason I have doubts.


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> Yea i do all of that and then some....


What does then some mean? What did you do above and beyond this?


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Luther said:


> What does then some mean? What did you do above and beyond this?


Came on PS and told us all about some of it but not all of it


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

He’s young and green with an attitude and ego. Currently unable to learn from other people’s mistakes. There’s still time for him to turn himself around.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

https://vm.tiktok.com/gMUGdx/

Perhaps another business opportunity.....


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> https://vm.tiktok.com/gMUGdx/
> 
> Perhaps another business opportunity.....


Still not clicking on any of your links.


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> https://vm.tiktok.com/gMUGdx/
> 
> Perhaps another business opportunity.....


Wouldn't that require the cars have snow on them?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Luther said:


> So you installed caution signage on this site warning the public?
> 
> For some reason I have doubts.


Sorry.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

This is just a baiting match now to see who can get who. Is it a big surprise some young guy won't take the advice of a OG? I'm a old man if I listened to a 1/4 of what the OG's had to say I could avoided a lot of hardknox. 

Yes a lot of them act like there taken your advice until you turn them loose, then it's why did you not do what I told you to do. It is what it is.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Luther said:


> What does then some mean? What did you do above and beyond this?


Well for one I do have to check in through an app that logs my time on site, photos in realtime, description of work, etc. Nothing much more but there was some items you did not mention.

I am not required to put up caution signs. Is that a standard OP in your area?



m_ice said:


> Came on PS and told us all about some of it but not all of it


Figure I covered my basis well enough, just wasn't enough for some folks. I don't feel the need to give every cent or specific address or company i am working for. Where in Illinois are you located?



Luther said:


> He's young and green with an attitude and ego. Currently unable to learn from other people's mistakes. There's still time for him to turn himself around.


Not really, I'm here to learn, problem is that i get attacked by people who are making assumptions.



FredG said:


> This is just a baiting match now to see who can get who. Is it a big surprise some young guy won't take the advice of a OG? I'm a old man if I listened to a 1/4 of what the OG's had to say I could avoided a lot of hardknox.Yes a lot of them act like there taken your advice until you turn them loose, then it's why did you not do what I told you to do. It is what it is.


what advice are you referring to?



Luther said:


> And if you think winter is over on March 2nd, you still have a lot to learn.


Ya know, i hate to jinx myself, but just for your information, the average number of days it snows in march, in my area is .9 days. We can round that up to 1 day. So, while winter is not over, If i go with the averages, I believe it's safe to say spring is around the corner. NOw, let us get a foot and break some records.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Nothing special, some members think you are taking there years of experience for granted and you got it figured out. Personally you got a lot to learn but I won't harass you about it. You want to learn from lumps on your head have at it. Been doing it all my life but not recommended.

When you got a full route, 7 or 8 employees, 4 or 5 plow trucks, loaders, skids, a back up plan, spreaders, sidewalk machines, dump trucks for removal, stacking then you will know what it is about.

Unless you can figure out how to be profitable like Mr Markus and a few others that are successful in a one man show. I wish I could be a one man show. Just something that's not going to happen with my business.

I am slowing down no more big site jobs with a full crew, renting big machines I don't own and certified payroll. Bought a small asphalt paver I'm only doing small commercial parking area's, driveways, commercial repairs. Big asphalt paver will most likely be for sale.

You have not passed the heart test yet. No as you said it is not rocket science but without the heart you will fail.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I've no plans to have a full route with 5 trucks, and as far as I know, that's not the only advice that can be had from this forum is it? Please correct me if I am wrong, but are solo operators not allowed here? And if they are, are they lesser than the guys running crews? 

As I have mentioned several times, this season will be profitable for me. The dive in head first was more than worth it.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

It sounds like you plow for Plowz.com.


And no one asked for the address of this lot. 
Their is nothing about a national’s contract that would tell us anything about you.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

rippinryno said:


> I've no plans to have a full route with 5 trucks, and as far as I know, that's not the only advice that can be had from this forum is it? Please correct me if I am wrong, but are solo operators not allowed here? And if they are, are they lesser than the guys running crews?
> 
> As I have mentioned several times, this season will be profitable for me. The dive in head first was more than worth it.


 Okay good luck.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

dangit, hydro has figured me out. it's plowz.com


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

rippinryno said:


> As I have mentioned several times, this season will be profitable for me. The dive in head first was more than worth it.


And there we have it.
The conclusion. Profitable?



rippinryno said:


> My original thread was closed .....and i wanted to let some of the other guys who may be newer to the game that it's ok to talk back and ignore some of the desk jockey's who really do their best to discourage any sort of "working with what you have" mentality.
> 
> this ones for you and keep grinding.


So it's not about plowing or profit
It's about taking a swing at the big dogs.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

rippinryno said:


> dangit, hydro has figured me out. it's plowz.com


A long time ago,
You are not what you're trying to pass for.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Hydromaster said:


> And there we have it.
> The conclusion. Profitable?
> 
> So it's not about plowing or profit
> It's about taking a swing at the big dogs.


Exactly what am I trying to pass for? I'm just as I said I am. 1 guy, with one commercial customer, bringing in some extra cash during the winter months.

I think it's time i put you on ignore as you're really not here to add anything beneficial. It's been real man, have a god one!


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

rippinryno said:


> I've no plans to have a full route with 5 trucks, and as far as I know, that's not the only advice that can be had from this forum is it? Please correct me if I am wrong, but are solo operators not allowed here? And if they are, are they lesser than the guys running crews?
> 
> As I have mentioned several times, this season will be profitable for me. The dive in head first was more than worth it.


Solo operators aren't allowed....!?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Daily Plowsite humor. ✓


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Daily Plowsite humor. ✓


Where?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I got a feeling most of us don't believe any of this.

Wouldn't it be the first time somebody came on PS with BS. 

I guess I'm a poet and didn't even know it.

Speaking of hope for some of us, I'm in Central Pennsylvania on my way to Connecticut, was going to head back to Chicago but now l, I'll be going to Nashville for that tornado

Hopefully not too many more people are found deceased today


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Nobody has to believe it, but honestly why on earth would I come on here lying about an account that I have?

do you require more photos of the truck setup, parking lot? both? i can send you photos of salt receipts, or the spreader, or whatever else it is that you need to make you feel like this isn't a lie. 

Personally, I think, when i answer questions and explain my approach, some of you are upset that i actually tend to have this dialed in pretty good. Even with the negative assumptions coming my way. So in turn, the only response is to call bs?


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

Would love to see some pics of the truck and spreader. Most on here are trying to help you out not trying to bust your nuts like you think. The problem is you seem to think differently. You got LUCKY this year and pulled it off . That's about all you accomplished .Nothing more nothing less.Then you come on here telling everyone how easy it is to start a plow business . Nobody on here has anything against little guys with small operations in fact most here are small guys . This site is all about educating people about the industry. Not to brag about how easy it is . Take what you want and leave the rest .

Still never told me what your backup plan was if the truck went down .


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

quigleysiding said:


> Still never told me what your backup plan was if the truck went down .


Shovelz.com


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

quigleysiding said:


> Would love to see some pics of the truck and spreader. Most on here are trying to help you out not trying to bust your nuts like you think. The problem is you seem to think differently. You got LUCKY this year and pulled it off . That's about all you accomplished .Nothing more nothing less.Then you come on here telling everyone how easy it is to start a plow business . Nobody on here has anything against little guys with small operations in fact most here are small guys . This site is all about educating people about the industry. Not to brag about how easy it is . Take what you want and leave the rest .
> 
> Still never told me what your backup plan was if the truck went down .


how is it considered luck to be servicing the property? My truck got lucky, like when the fuel line blew out? my patch work on the plow got lucky? i mean, at what point does it become prepared vs luck? I'm not telling anybody it's easy, but it ain't rocket science my friend. Take a look at the posts in this thread and tell me again how this site is about educating. There were a couple good ones....Also, tell me how i'm bragging about how easy it is.

If the truck broke down I had several people who could come clear the lot for me. I know these people and helped throw salt a handful of times for them throughout the winter once my lot was clear. I did have a backup plan, albeit, there may have been an hour or two before they could be there, but i know they would have done it asap, and i would have paid accordingly.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

“how is it considered luck to be servicing the property? My truck got lucky, like when the fuel line blew out? my patch work on the plow got lucky?”

You’ve got it all figured out. you’ve got all the answers. I guess the rest of us can just go and sit at our desks and get oout sandwiches.

Your truck didn’t get lucky, you did .
You mean being prepared was having
Bubblegum in the glove box to fix the fuel line with?
Why didn’t you just call your buddies to Plow the lot for you and remove the dangerous vehicle until it was repaired properly?

do you think it was skill that got you through that event or was it luck?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa I got this one!!!!

Luck has nothing to do with it when you have mad skills, tube of JB weld, and possibly a roll of gorilla tape.

Obviously the man rose to the challenge, persevered through the toughest times, overcame and conquered the mighty snowflake.


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

Glad to hear It all went well . 
Guess I should get me some of that jb weld :laugh:
I do carry the gorilla tape.  
I run old trucks too so I know what can and will happen. 
New trucks and plows break too. :angry:
Ugly plows push snow almost as good as shiny ones . :bluebounce:
At least that's what I keep telling myself . 

Guess you got the business all figured out .  

Before this gets closed out any tips things you learned along the way.:weightlifter:
Might be good info for all the new guys that you say this thread is for .lowblue:


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## samcarpen (Nov 2, 2010)

We all started with one post. We're fools to make war on our brothers in arms.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

samcarpen said:


> We all started with one post. We're fools to make war on our brothers in arms.


Thanks


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## samcarpen (Nov 2, 2010)

You're welcome.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

samcarpen said:


> We all started with one post. We're fools to make war on our brothers in arms.


Not too sure about that, I think Mark start off with 30,000 this morning


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## samcarpen (Nov 2, 2010)

Mark is a wise man. I have several of his posts book marked.


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

How is this thread not locked? Hasnt it run its course already?

My first year I snowblowed 5 drives with a $75 pos black smoke belching snowblower. Made a little $. Last thing I would do is parade this milestone around the internet as some sorta inspiration for others. Nobody cares!


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to get a bit of clarity on the numbers... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say winter is over for you (not trying to jinx you, just makes the answer easier)... from what I can gather this was a $20,000 contract. You paid $5,000 or so for the truck / plow and let's say another $5,000 for insurance, fuel, salt, minor repairs (I might be shooting a bit high) but for all intents and purposes you've profited around $10,000 - $12,500?


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

quigleysiding said:


> Glad to hear It all went well .
> Guess I should get me some of that jb weld :laugh:
> I do carry the gorilla tape.
> I run old trucks too so I know what can and will happen.
> ...


tip number 1, don't get discouraged.

tip number 2, don't get angry and offended when somebody makes a post about their startup. Nobody said they have it all figured out, although many here think I am making that claim.

tip number 3, definitely carry gorilla tape, epoxy, and of course vice grips and a pry bar.

tip number 4, everything breaks, no different than having an issue when i'm doing lawn care. Way more things to go wrong on the lawn care rig.



samcarpen said:


> We all started with one post. We're fools to make war on our brothers in arms.


yup



Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to get a bit of clarity on the numbers... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say winter is over for you (not trying to jinx you, just makes the answer easier)... from what I can gather this was a $20,000 contract. You paid $5,000 or so for the truck / plow and let's say another $5,000 for insurance, fuel, salt, minor repairs (I might be shooting a bit high) but for all intents and purposes you've profited around $10,000 - $12,500?


you're in the ballpark.



Landgreen said:


> How is this thread not locked? Hasnt it run its course already?
> 
> My first year I snowblowed 5 drives with a $75 pos black smoke belching snowblower. Made a little $. Last thing I would do is parade this milestone around the internet as some sorta inspiration for others. Nobody cares!


you mad bro?

course is still running, season ain't over and just look at all the attention it's getting. don't blame the player.

I'm glad you started small and are humble knowing your roots. Don't speak for everybody when you say nobody cares, and if you don't like this thread, just don't post in it, bro. Nobody's parading around.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

samcarpen said:


> Mark is a wise man. I have several of his posts book marked.


Why?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

rippinryno said:


> tip number 1, don't get discouraged.
> 
> tip number 2, don't get angry and offended when somebody makes a post about their startup. Nobody said they have it all figured out, although many here think I am making that claim.
> 
> ...


JERRY! JERRY JERRY!!


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why?


Cause he can't find the report button anymore...


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

and this has run its course...tired of asking both the OP and the rest of you guys to clean it up. So, in the future, if you don't like someone or believe them, etc. then don't correspond and definitely dont post in their threads

thanks all


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