# Customer made me laugh out loud this morning



## Yarden of eden (Dec 1, 2010)

All my snow only contracts expired on March 31. We are expecting a big nasty wet heavy blizzard tonight in to tomorrow. NWS says 8-14 inches. I called all of my monthly customers who's contracts expired to give a per push price for this storm. All of them agreed to the pricing and plowing except this medical clinic I do. I got an email from office manager this morning that Dr Building Owner brought his own plow truck in and will be handling it himself. 

This particular Doctor likes to wait until hours before the first snow of the season to sign so he can potentially avoid paying for a month of service. It drives me nuts but they were my first ever commercial account and I put up with more bs since they took a chance on me years ago.

So just for fun I drove out there this morning and peeked at his rig, Late 90's Expedition with a weenie homeowner plow on it. I laughed out loud so hard. The place takes me about an hour for a 2-4 inch fluffy snow with a 9 ft V plow, and I have plowed that lot for 5 years I could do it in my sleep. There is also about 45 minutes of sidewalks to shovel for that same 2-4 fluffy. I am picturing Dr Moneybags out there fighting a foot of cement snow with his SUV and trying to shovel all those sidewalks. I know I'm going to get a call tomorrow and I will have a hard time being perfectly professional. 

I don't know how this situation could turn out the best for me in terms of this guy finding a little bit of respect for the fact that he hasnt had to complain even once in 5 years no matter the amount of snow we have gotten. But I thought I would share.


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## ppkgmsy (Jan 18, 2008)

I'm a homeowner and I only plow my own driveway and once in awhile I help out a neighbor. I think most people have no clue how hard you pros work and what's involved in your skill sets. I browse this Commercial part of the forum because I pick up tips and because I admire your work. This doc who thinks he can take over for you would be surprised if you tried to take his place for a day. He doesn't have a clue. Maybe he'll come away from this with more respect.


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## Yarden of eden (Dec 1, 2010)

Thanks for that. 

This place has a really low tolerance for sloppy work too. They are a spine specialist, and also do physical therapy so anyone going in there is either currently injured or recovering from an injury. It would be a shame if someone slipped and fell because this guy is trying to either prove a point or save a few hundred bucks


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Sounds like double the price you quoted him before the snow.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Oh,more on your billing policy with him.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Make sure you get us some pics of his 'finished' handiwork.... lol


Really, why would a doctor be like this? Doesn't make sense, just to save a few bucks. Puts the liability on himself, the costs of the "equipment", and all the extra labour... I had a contract do this about ten years ago, but it was a fabrication shop and they bought a Bobcat for the yard to carry steel around etc... so at least it made sense for them (and they could pay an employee to do it at his regular hourly rate). But a doctor??

Weird.

Thanks for the laugh, though.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Yarden of eden;1797535 said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> This place has a really low tolerance for sloppy work too. They are a spine specialist, and also do physical therapy so anyone going in there is either currently injured or recovering from an injury. It would be a shame if someone slipped and fell because this guy is trying to either prove a point or save a few hundred bucks


Doesn't happen to be in Minnetonka, does it?


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## Yarden of eden (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm not going to comment on where it is. Last year he wouldn't sign and I got an email on December 4 when there was already 4 inches on the ground that he signed, boned me on my November invoice that is supposed to make up for all the crazy months. I made up for it in April and May last year in the winter that wouldn't end. 

This season same deal. Refused to sign till we had a winter storm warning in late November and I flat out refused to plow without ink on paper. No emails. 

Now he is pulling this and refuses to sign his lawn contract till all the snow is totally gone. 

I really don't want to plow a bunch of this wet snow tonight but part of me is wishing for 14" of white death to make this guy feel the consequences. The only way his expedition will handle that much is if he babysits it all night. I drive a diesel dually dump truck and that even has trouble pushing some of these deep wet ones


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

If that's the case,you could either bill him top heavy or just bill him in Dec for Nov and continue till he's paid in full


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## djagusch (Oct 15, 2007)

My guess is he knows his appt load for Friday looks light or thinking due to the client type most will cancel appts. Make a path, clear some spots, and should be good for the day. Let the rest melt in the coming days.

Of maybe his son or a kid is on spring and thinks they can handle it.

He's betting against the forecast.


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

I do a lot of seasonal contracts like this. I don't discount the "season price" if they choose to procrastinate or purposely wait. The only difference is how many months they can divide up the billing, and its always laid out that one months bill does not count for one months service. The heavy months are technically weighted heavier. 

Might be something to point out to them next season.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

derekbroerse;1797592 said:


> Make sure you get us some pics of his 'finished' handiwork.... lol
> 
> Really, why would a doctor be like this? Doesn't make sense, just to save a few bucks. Puts the liability on himself, the costs of the "equipment", and all the extra labour... I had a contract do this about ten years ago, but it was a fabrication shop and they bought a Bobcat for the yard to carry steel around etc... so at least it made sense for them (and they could pay an employee to do it at his regular hourly rate). But a doctor??
> 
> ...


I've worked for a few of these types over the yrs( usually Dr. - Lawyer - Acct. - Rich Housewives - Etc.). They know everything and like to control all situations, even when they have no idea what it entails. They think they have the power over you, because after all, you must need the money...you plow snow for a living.  It never lasted to long with me, because homey don't play that game.

Just get rid of him as a customer and find some others who actually appreciate what you do.


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## procut (Dec 1, 2004)

It may be his plow SUV, but I'm guessing he's going to have someone else out there actually trying to plow and do walks. If the lot takes an hour to plow with a 9' V It's probably going to take close to two hours with his setup, probably more with inexperience and that amount of snow forecasted. Plus the time to do the walks. So he's looking at a minimum of three hours of work. I just don't see any doctor whose worth his weight in dog @#$% having that kind of extra time.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

WIPensFan;1797698 said:


> I've worked for a few of these types over the yrs( usually Dr. - Lawyer - Acct. - Rich Housewives - Etc.). They know everything and like to control all situations, even when they have no idea what it entails. They think they have the power over you, because after all, you must need the money...you plow snow for a living.  It never lasted to long with me, because homey don't play that game.
> 
> Just get rid of him as a customer and find some others who actually appreciate what you do.


I was going to post something similar to this. Very well said.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

For ****s and grins....I hope you get buried tonight....Just to teach this tight ass a lesson.


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## mulcahy mowing (Jan 16, 2006)

You'll get an Emergancy call at 5am when he's stuck in a bank. "Nope sorry we will be by when we can"


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

mulcahy mowing;1797798 said:


> You'll get an Emergancy call at 5am when he's stuck in a bank. "Nope sorry we will be by when we can"


That's about it too.


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## Yarden of eden (Dec 1, 2010)

Haha, I would love to drop him but my wife works for his clinic and a don't want to make it weird for her. And we need to keep our health insurance lol.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Yarden of eden;1798000 said:


> Haha, I would love to drop him but my wife works for his clinic and a don't want to make it weird for her. And we need to keep our health insurance lol.


You should have lead with that info...


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## Yarden of eden (Dec 1, 2010)

The relationship has been strictly business since day one. He won't even communicate to me directly. It's always with Office Manager guy playing middle man, I guess it didn't seem to be information pertinent to the current situation of this guy thinking he is going to plow this crap tonight. We are at 4" and counting. Prob won't be done till 7 or 8 am.


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## Yarden of eden (Dec 1, 2010)

edgeair;1797687 said:


> I do a lot of seasonal contracts like this. I don't discount the "season price" if they choose to procrastinate or purposely wait. The only difference is how many months they can divide up the billing, and its always laid out that one months bill does not count for one months service. The heavy months are technically weighted heavier.
> 
> Might be something to point out to them next season.


It has been, but Dr basically told me to get f***ed. Unfortunately at that time I needed his guaranteed money even if it was a month short to make sure I can keep paying my basic business expenses and at least a modest salary if it never snowed. I try to keep an even mix of per push and contract work to avoid getting screwed by any extreme of mother nature.


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## Yarden of eden (Dec 1, 2010)

Drive by on my way to another account just now, his suv is still sitting there covered in snow with the lot untouched. ... his employees will start arriving in a half hour


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## oarwhat (Nov 29, 2005)

How much snow did you get??


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Yarden of eden;1798133 said:


> Drive by on my way to another account just now, his suv is still sitting there covered in snow with the lot untouched. ... his employees will start arriving in a half hour


:laughing: Get pics!


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## Yarden of eden (Dec 1, 2010)

oarwhat;1798136 said:


> How much snow did you get??


We are currently at about 7" of the nasty cement snow, and still snowing. My dump is even having trouble with some of the windrows after a handful of runs


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Hope it works out for you! One thing I can't understand though. I read quite often about clients holding out signing seasonal contracts and not paying the 1st months invoice. What does signing late and having no snow during 1 st month of season have to do with a contract based on seasonal service? What if you get above average snowfall the second month? Do they pay more?No. If I miss a monthly payment I get a late charge and pay interest! Seems like a very simple math equation- x/y= payup


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

This is definitely getting entertaining.... sneak a video if him plowing if you can (without getting caught of course)


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

leigh;1798179 said:


> Hope it works out for you! One thing I can't understand though. I read quite often about clients holding out signing seasonal contracts and not paying the 1st months invoice. What does signing late and having no snow during 1 st month of season have to do with a contract based on seasonal service? What if you get above average snowfall the second month? Do they pay more?No. If I miss a monthly payment I get a late charge and pay interest! Seems like a very simple math equation- x/y= payup


I don't understand this either my seasonals run from first snowfall in the fall to last in spring nothing more, nothing less. It's billed as such it doesn't matter when they sign. Now I would pro rate obviously if someone came on it Mid January, or when we have homes added mid season (we are plowing a HOA that is still in development). But to me waiting until December 2, to avoid paying November....that's still a full season.... But again if it snows into April I don't charge any more either.


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

I run into the same scenario on seasonals sometimes. They come back and say they don't want the season to start till the first of December and rewrite the contract to 4 months and take away a months payment. I have to explain to them it is the same price at 4-5 months and this is usually after they tell me originally they want it split up over 5 months but when it comes to paying selective hearing kicks in and remembering they have a contract goes out the window. I'm sure he will be calling at so a point today.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Sounds with some of your people are having brain farts. When you sell the seasonal contracts are you up front with the price first and then tell them how it will be bill out? Or do you tell them it's xxx amount per month for the next 4-5 months?


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## potskie (Feb 9, 2011)

grandview;1798379 said:


> Sounds with some of your people are having brain farts. When you sell the seasonal contracts are you up front with the price first and then tell them how it will be bill out? Or do you tell them it's xxx amount per month for the next 4-5 months?


sounds like you've sold a seasonal before. 

So how'd the Dr make out?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

potskie;1798473 said:


> sounds like you've sold a seasonal before.
> 
> So how'd the Dr make out?


Made enough to buy myself and wife dinner in Canada,so what does that tell you?


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## Yarden of eden (Dec 1, 2010)

Dr basically just plowed all the runs and didn't shovel a damn thing. He got all the women who work there to do it for him. The employees show up at 6, patents start coming at 7, Dr started brushing snow off his truck at 715


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

I would have driven over it with the tonner a few times, just to help pack it in.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

So now your down to two choices, drop him or sign him up next year,which one are you going to do?


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Sign, and choke on the bitter taste of humble pie.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Grandview I hope I was was more than a dry bun and chile at Timmie's, I read this as I finished breakfast in a large hotel in down town Salt lake and the Mrs. Along with one of my daughter is still sleeping in the room,life is good. 
Some of us run our businesses, some are run by the business,with customers that figure they will save some let them and don't lose a moment sleep find the ones who want and value your services treat them like gold. I have customers who have been with me since I started and every indication they will sign next season. Dump the jerks and chum the waters for a better catch. Good luck.


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

Sounds like you had a 5 month seasonal contract. I have(had now) a large retail store that was the same. Anything after March 31st, they have to call for service, at a per push rate. They know before season starts, what the per push rate is. They are not obligated to call me for service, after the contract expires. If they don't call...oh well.


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

Yarden of eden;1798036 said:


> It has been, but Dr basically told me to get f***ed. Unfortunately at that time I needed his guaranteed money even if it was a month short to make sure I can keep paying my basic business expenses and at least a modest salary if it never snowed. I try to keep an even mix of per push and contract work to avoid getting screwed by any extreme of mother nature.


Good plan to keep a mix, we do that too, and it helps when you have extremes like this winter.

I would tell him like it is, sounds like you don't need him as much anymore so drop him if he wants to play the game. Just tell him the price is fixed for the season whether he signs up Nov. 1 or Dec. 24..... And put a clause in your contract where if it snows in April, it will be $X per clearing automatically (don't have to get his approval then). Guys like that tick me off because they got off easy this winter being on a seasonal, but they are trying to take away your gravy money.

I have one problem with my contracts that I am going to fix this coming season - and that is haul away. I have had to seek approval for haul away in the past and that's usually not an issue. However this year I had a new client - seniors home - who has had very high standards (calling me to ask why I'm not there when there is 1 inch of snow when our contract says 2 etc). They ran out of space in February. I was asking for hauling approval in January. I never got approval and the pile just kept growing onto their lot. Looked awful and blocked part of the entrance that they were so concerned about for ambulance access....

Anyways, I learned my lesson with my contracts this year that way.


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

I don't understand. Seasonal contracts to me, would mean the ''entire'' winter season. Why set it up this way? It doesn't make sense. If I service my medical places for years and then just because it snows a day in April, the customer is left out of this loop. Everybody has seen me there all winter long. Now the lot is not done and guess who they are going to associate that with? Why not just set your seasonal contracts up from the first snowflake til the last snowflake? I look at the big picture. I want my customer to put food on my table this year, next year and the next ten years and more.


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

DodgeBlizzard;1798890 said:


> I don't understand. Seasonal contracts to me, would mean the ''entire'' winter season. Why set it up this way? It doesn't make sense. If I service my medical places for years and then just because it snows a day in April, the customer is left out of this loop. Everybody has seen me there all winter long. Now the lot is not done and guess who they are going to associate that with? Why not just set your seasonal contracts up from the first snowflake til the last snowflake? I look at the big picture. I want my customer to put food on my table this year, next year and the next ten years and more.


Mainly because contracts must have a "start" and "end". First snowflake to the last is not specific enough. You want a limit. A seasonal contract is generally set up to cover more than an average winter. However as we have learned this year, we should cover with additional terms for extenuating circumstances.

Maybe the solution is to set it up until May 1 instead of April 1, but if you don't charge more for that, then you are just cheating yourself. If you have to be operationally ready during April, there should be reimbursement for that.


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

Kmarts are only a five month contract for snow. Been that way for the past five years, here anyway. I have tried every year, but they are always...Nov.1st thru March 31st. Anything after, is a call in at time and materials. Last year of that though. They are closing for good June 1st. Loss of a good account!


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## Yarden of eden (Dec 1, 2010)

DodgeBlizzard;1798890 said:


> I don't understand. Seasonal contracts to me, would mean the ''entire'' winter season. Why set it up this way? It doesn't make sense. If I service my medical places for years and then just because it snows a day in April, the customer is left out of this loop. Everybody has seen me there all winter long. Now the lot is not done and guess who they are going to associate that with? Why not just set your seasonal contracts up from the first snowflake til the last snowflake? I look at the big picture. I want my customer to put food on my table this year, next year and the next ten years and more.


Mainly because this customer does summer services as well, from April 1 through October 31 at roughly half the price of the winter service. Well, every other season anyway. This year he thinks he can get away not paying for April. If I did first to last snowflake I am running the risk of potentially having an entire month of extra plowing (like last year) after I already did a normal winters worth of snow for 5 months, and lose my ass for that extra month because I'm only getting paid half the price (per summer contract)


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

This "Dr." seems like quite the shyster! Here's my 2 cents that will solve all problems! Why not add the plowing contract to the summer contract and divide the total into 12 equal monthly payments. Start the new contract May 1st so you'll be ahead when winter comes. That way if he tries any funny business you'll be ahead.:salute:


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## Yarden of eden (Dec 1, 2010)

leigh;1798944 said:


> This "Dr." seems like quite the shyster! Here's my 2 cents that will solve all problems! Why not add the plowing contract to the summer contract and divide the total into 12 equal monthly payments. Start the new contract May 1st so you'll be ahead when winter comes. That way if he tries any funny business you'll be ahead.:salute:


Even though I have done their grounds maintenance for 5 years he refuses to sign anything longer than a season by season contract. He never takes other bids, and when I first started out I didn't know enough to set the Contract up as a full season price. I just figured that was implied by a contract that said xxx per month from this time till that time.

I tried explaining how the pricing works and is figured when he last pulled these shenanigans, but he basically told me to take a hike if I didn't like it. Like I said it was money I had budgeted that I needed so I just dealt with it. I appreciate the wise advise from of all of you, but this was a post more to point out how insane some customers are, and to blow off a little steam after a long, record cold winter with above average snow fall. No need to nit pick the way my contract was set up or help me create a new business plan. But thanks for the concern in that area.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Time to take a hike,at least we know who the women is in this relationship.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

grandview;1798981 said:


> Time to take a hike,at least we know who the women is in this relationship.


Hahahahah.....

Ouch!!!!.....


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

funny, i saw all kinds of crazy stupid stuff this winter... every joe blow was out in anything resembling a truck or vehicle trying to move snow with anything flat on the front :/ Even lost contracts due to non payment or "they couldnt pay so they cancelled the contract", then have a company local called "outdoor solutions" with a 20 year old truck and tailgate old western salt spreader replacing our bigger trucks and 4 yard bulk spreaders. too much.


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

We dropped an account they replaced our Tractor & inverted blower with a 80's vintage chevy blazer


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Nothing wrong with older equipment, but what makes it weird is the apples-to-oranges replacement comparison... like replacing a ten wheeler with an atv... The bottom line is, can the guy get the job done? If no, then they will either be calling you back in a panic or shopping around again. If yes, then other than being bitter you have no right to judge his business model.


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