# I should have pushed twice



## SnowHampshire (Nov 8, 2020)

Checking the forecast every 5 seconds for hours and days. Waking up at several times at 2, 3, 4...snow finally starts hours after predicted. SHOULD I GO YET?!?! NOW??? Ehhhh doesn't look bad, looks kinda fluffy. It's only a few inches...get my butt out there and "huh"...this stuff is getting heavy, oh it started getting heavy and now it's raining a bit earlier than I planned. Oh it's not just a few inches, it's over 5". OH WOW this new customer got lots of drifting! I SHOULD HAVE PUSHED TWICE. My poor fragile truck, crappy kyb struts...the sounds haunt me. Sorry girl I did you wrong today....I WISH I PUSHED TWICE!

New rule: "When in doubt, push twice"


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## Kman2298 (Dec 24, 2015)

I usually go out an hour before a storm starts and call my guys out an hour into the storm starting. Even if we sit in a parking lot waiting to plow its better than everyone being at home and the **** starts dumping.


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## SnowHampshire (Nov 8, 2020)

Yea I'm going to make a point to get out earlier...go get some coffee kill time if necessary. This last one dumped alot of snow in an hour or two. I'm definitely still getting used to the timing. Thanks for the input!


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## MTBTriplet1FG (Jan 2, 2016)

Our snow was supposed to start at 6pm so I left the house at 3pm. It started early at 4pm and continued for the next 12 hours. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don’t!


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

SnowHampshire said:


> Checking the forecast every 5 seconds for hours and days. Waking up at several times at 2, 3, 4...snow finally starts hours after predicted. SHOULD I GO YET?!?! NOW??? Ehhhh doesn't look bad, looks kinda fluffy. It's only a few inches...get my butt out there and "huh"...this stuff is getting heavy, oh it started getting heavy and now it's raining a bit earlier than I planned. Oh it's not just a few inches, it's over 5". OH WOW this new customer got lots of drifting! I SHOULD HAVE PUSHED TWICE. My poor fragile truck, crappy kyb struts...the sounds haunt me. Sorry girl I did you wrong today....I WISH I PUSHED TWICE!
> 
> New rule: "When in doubt, push twice"


Is this like a Snowplow Poetry Slam?


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## SnowHampshire (Nov 8, 2020)

RichardBongIII said:


> Is this like a Snowplow Poetry Slam?


Yup. Join in, don't be shy.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

SnowHampshire said:


> Yea I'm going to make a point to get out earlier...go get some coffee kill time if necessary. This last one dumped alot of snow in an hour or two. I'm definitely still getting used to the timing. Thanks for the input!


I'm in line with this. When its a small system wait till its done. This system coming in the next day or two I will be out plowing with the snow


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I still got to do last weeks snow, then again it's hiding the snow from a few days prior.


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## Polarispete (11 mo ago)

Been plowing since 1966. Learned a long time ago to plow with the storm, especially if the snow was like the last 2 storms. Wet and heavy


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Polarispete said:


> Been plowing since 1966. Learned a long time ago to plow with the storm, especially if the snow was like the last 2 storms. Wet and heavy


Oh for Pete's sake Welcome to plowsite.

I just seized a Polaris


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## Polarispete (11 mo ago)

Thank you Sir! A Polaris seized! No way!


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Way!
Running a new oiless engine….


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## SnowHampshire (Nov 8, 2020)

Polarispete said:


> Been plowing since 1966. Learned a long time ago to plow with the storm, especially if the snow was like the last 2 storms. Wet and heavy


It's always wet and heavy in New England...I should move back out west


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

sleep, let it snow when you wake up fresh go plow.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I thought everyone preplowed?

Bestest way to keep up with wet, heavy snow; high accumulation storms; or long duration events.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

it is one thing to say on the old interweb do x, when you are responsible for multiple properties and some multiple acres so time ya got to get more fuel and push.
sleep is good to though.


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## SnowHampshire (Nov 8, 2020)

Chineau said:


> sleep, let it snow when you wake up fresh go plow.


This is tempting...I've been contemplating possible per inch rates in some instances but I doubt I'll stray from charging per push. There are some customers that want to sometimes do it themselves, some want on call service, etc. I've been grinding, making some $$ off last minute calls and I have a regular or two that are close and good people. I take care of them but basically tell them I charge for every 3"-4" and if you call after alot of snow, you'll be paying for it and the result won't be as clean. I learned quickly my first year about those that call you off because they are going to shovel, then you hear from them after a foot of snow and there is a 3 x 3 ft section shoveled. I honestly don't mind letting a couple customers in at the end of my route as long as they pay right there and they are close, understanding of my stipulations, and give me brownies and coke.

Anywhoo, back to the point...I think a per inch clause may help me when there's a fast moving event that dumps heavy snow in a short amount of time, especially since Im a one man band.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Residential
Crashing inches…
Doesn’t work because they’ll shovel it themselves or they’ll say they’ll shovel it themselves and don’t and then don’t call you till thers 6 inches of packed snow..

seasonal contract.
2” trigger 
Add a storm clause.
like, anything over 12 inches is an additional fee And so on.


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## SnowHampshire (Nov 8, 2020)

Seems like seasonal is the way to go judging from experienced guys on here but I want to get a few more seasons under my belt before I consider it. Contract wise it seems to be more in depth. To me, only at glance, after the clauses for lots of snow or little snow in a season it seems like I'd make about the same amount. I do understand that some customers like seasonal because they know their costs ahead of time. It would also help me out by having some extra $$ at the beginning of the season incase of major $$ repairs or unforseen expenses. I'm not sure how residential customers around here would go for it though. Possiby after another few years I will get consider seasonal contracts. Thanks for the input, good stuff!


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

It’s like selling insurance.

You may not need it but when it snows it’s there for you.

Then break up the payments to 2 to 3 painless installments.

And if they act now they could get a 20% discount on any salt applications but you have to sign soon because we can’t do this all day.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

SnowHampshire said:


> as long as they pay right there and they are close, understanding of my stipulations, and give me brownies and coke.


I'm guessing the uppers are for during your shift? And the downers to help you sleep after?


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

he never said what was in the brownies!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Polarispete said:


> Been plowing since 1966. Learned a long time ago to plow with the storm, especially if the snow was like the last 2 storms. Wet and heavy


How long is your route?

What type of customers do you have? Residential or commercial or both?


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## SnowHampshire (Nov 8, 2020)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> I'm guessing the uppers are for during your shift? And the downers to help you sleep after?


Lol...a chick nearby that likes to give me soda and baked goods.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Can I book a slot in the 23-24 season?


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

SnowHampshire said:


> Seems like seasonal is the way to go judging from experienced guys on here but I want to get a few more seasons under my belt before I consider it. Contract wise it seems to be more in depth. To me, only at glance, after the clauses for lots of snow or little snow in a season it seems like I'd make about the same amount. I do understand that some customers like seasonal because they know their costs ahead of time. It would also help me out by having some extra $$ at the beginning of the season incase of major $$ repairs or unforseen expenses. I'm not sure how residential customers around here would go for it though. Possiby after another few years I will get consider seasonal contracts. Thanks for the input, good stuff!


I've had a residential plow route since 1984 and switched to seasonal rates in 1997 and never looked back. I'm located in north Central MA and our historical average is 10 plowable snow events per season. We have always plowed with the storm and providing quality service is our number one goal. We have a policy that if the town plows we plow which basically means 1" or more. The advantages of seasonal rates are pretty obvious as we never worry if it's going to snow or not. Your start up cost are the same regardless of how you charge the only difference is I'm being paid for mine if we don't get snow. It's all about selling a quality service that will give your customer base incentive to pay for it up front. On a side note I'm not sure where you live in NH but hear just outside the 495 belt the majority of our snow events are generally not heavy and wet. Good luck with whatever you choose to do but I would strongly suggest rolling as soon as you see 2" on the ground as it's easy on you and the equipment. Just 1 persons opinion.


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## scaypa (Jan 12, 2016)

Shady said:


> I've had a residential plow route since 1984 and switched to seasonal rates in 1997 and never looked back. I'm located in north Central MA and our historical average is 10 plowable snow events per season. We have always plowed with the storm and providing quality service is our number one goal. We have a policy that if the town plows we plow which basically means 1" or more. The advantages of seasonal rates are pretty obvious as we never worry if it's going to snow or not. Your start up cost are the same regardless of how you charge the only difference is I'm being paid for mine if we don't get snow. It's all about selling a quality service that will give your customer base incentive to pay for it up front. On a side note I'm not sure where you live in NH but hear just outside the 495 belt the majority of our snow events are generally not heavy and wet. Good luck with whatever you choose to do but I would strongly suggest rolling as soon as you see 2" on the ground as it's easy on you and the equipment. Just 1 persons opinion.
> View attachment 234016


Did you have any pushback from your current customers when you switched to seasonal? How do you structure the payment?


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

scaypa said:


> Did you have any pushback from your current customers when you switched to seasonal? How do you structure the payment?


All our work is referral so that narrows down the price shopping. Our rates are based on a per storm rate multiplied by 11 which had been our historical average until recently. We do have some events I will only plow the hills as a courtesy. What I do offer for a new customer is if we don't plow at least 8 times their first year I will offer them the second year at the per storm rate x the number of times we actually plowed the first year. As far as when we switch I offered a seasonal price (existing rate x historical average) or an increased per storm price, 75% of our customers at the time chose the seasonal rate (1996). The following year there was no choice so we lost some customers and those slots were filled with new customers that had the peace of mind knowing exactly what they would pay for snowplowing (1997). Payment is paid in full by 12/31 unless we have a payment schedule agreement. A large number of our customers pay shortly after receiving their yearly letter for renewal at the end of September.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Our seasonal contracts first payment is due November 1st, second payment is due on the first of the year.

no refunds or pro rating for next year service based on this years snow. As that wouldn’t be playing the averages.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Hydromaster said:


> Our seasonal contracts first payment is due November 1st, second payment is due on the first of the year.
> 
> no refunds or pro rating for next year service based on this years snow. As that wouldn't be playing the averages.


The pro rating is only offered for new customers in order to try and keep them on par for the avg if we fall well below it their first year, it's a very small price to pay to maintain a new customer. And to be clear we only service residential properties.


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## SnowHampshire (Nov 8, 2020)

Shady said:


> All our work is referral so that narrows down the price shopping. Our rates are based on a per storm rate multiplied by 11 which had been our historical average until recently. We do have some events I will only plow the hills as a courtesy. What I do offer for a new customer is if we don't plow at least 8 times their first year I will offer them the second year at the per storm rate x the number of times we actually plowed the first year. As far as when we switch I offered a seasonal price (existing rate x historical average) or an increased per storm price, 75% of our customers at the time chose the seasonal rate (1996). The following year there was no choice so we lost some customers and those slots were filled with new customers that had the peace of mind knowing exactly what they would pay for snowplowing (1997). Payment is paid in full by 12/31 unless we have a payment schedule agreement. A large number of our customers pay shortly after receiving their yearly letter for renewal at the end of September.


Are they your landscaping customers?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Shady said:


> The pro rating is only offered for new customers in order to try and keep them on par for the avg if we fall well below it their first year. And to be clear we only service residential properties.


So new customers get a deal & existing customers don't.

Same. seasonal for residential only


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

SnowHampshire said:


> Are they your landscaping customers?


Most of them are not some of them are. Our landscaping/property maintenance customer base is only about 25% of the size of our plowing base


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> Our seasonal contracts first payment is due November 1st, second payment is due on the first of the year.
> 
> no refunds or pro rating for next year service based on this years snow. As that wouldn't be playing the averages.


Nice guy...our seasonals pay upfront or they don't get put on the route.

Also stopped prorating as well.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Hydromaster said:


> So new customers get a deal & existing customers don't.
> 
> Same. seasonal for residential only


Our existing customers are already on avg because they got the same deal when they were new customers. It's an inexpensive way of maintaining a new customer that may have signed up on a lean winter of snow.


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## SnowHampshire (Nov 8, 2020)

Shady said:


> I've had a residential plow route since 1984 and switched to seasonal rates in 1997 and never looked back. I'm located in north Central MA and our historical average is 10 plowable snow events per season. We have always plowed with the storm and providing quality service is our number one goal. We have a policy that if the town plows we plow which basically means 1" or more. The advantages of seasonal rates are pretty obvious as we never worry if it's going to snow or not. Your start up cost are the same regardless of how you charge the only difference is I'm being paid for mine if we don't get snow. It's all about selling a quality service that will give your customer base incentive to pay for it up front. On a side note I'm not sure where you live in NH but hear just outside the 495 belt the majority of our snow events are generally not heavy and wet. Good luck with whatever you choose to do but I would strongly suggest rolling as soon as you see 2" on the ground as it's easy on you and the equipment. Just 1 persons opinion.
> View attachment 234016


So no prorating for less snow during the season but what about clauses to cover you if there are many events? What are your storm clauses?


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Let’s say a new customer signs up and you plow 5 times what do you think the possibility is of retaining that customer a second year is regardless of the level of service was? Yes they may stay or they may not. I choose to give them some incentive (that is a minimal cost for me) to stay on knowing full well they most likely will then stay on for many years. As all our work is referred things like this go a long way. We all choose to do business differently which is ok with me.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

SnowHampshire said:


> So no prorating for less snow during the season but what about clauses to cover you if there are many events? What are your storm clauses?


There is nothing hidden, your seasonal price is what you will pay regardless of how many snow events or how many times we are in your driveway. It's not for everybody but it's worked well for us the last 25 years.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

So if I’ve been a loyal customer for years and I talk to my neighbor and they signing up with your service and we have a Low snow year he gets a deal and I don’t.
That’s gonna leave a bitter taste with me because I’ve been a loyal customer.

Nothing hidden in our contract but if we get a large snow event , like 2’ there will be an additional fee. 
Then reality that really doesn’t come into play often as we should be there at your trigger depth. But some storms are just too large and will require an additional fee

with unlimited number of services during the contract time frame.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Hydromaster said:


> So if I've been a loyal customer for years and I talk to my neighbor and they signing up with your service and we have a Low snow year he gets a deal and I don't.
> That's gonna leave a bitter taste with me because I've been a loyal customer.
> 
> Nothing hidden in our contract but if we get a large snow event , like 2' there will be an additional fee.
> unlimited number of services during the contract time frame.


I'm not sure why that leaves a bitter taste in their mouth if they were offered the same thing their first year? And if we plow that new customer 8 times or more they are not getting pro rated. The fact they referred us in the first place speaks volume about how satisfied they are with the service we offer and if we can maintain that level of satisfaction with their neighbor then the referrals will continue as they have for decades. I understand your point of view we choose to be a little less hard lined.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Does your insurance guy give you a refund
On your commercial vehicle ins
If you don’t use it to many times?

If your avg rate is based on 10 events
At what point do you refund ?
if you plow 9 times, how about 8?
what percentage is the refund?

hardliner, nope just in this to make money and I think that is fair as they signed our contract.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Hydromaster said:


> Does your insurance guy give you a refund
> On your commercial vehicle ins
> If you don't use it to many times?
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure I have answered all those questions in my posts 
Our rate is based on a per storm rate X 11
A first year customer will only be offered a reduced rate for their second year if we plow less then 8 times. 
we do not refund any $. 
Hopefully you guys are having a great winter!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Shady said:


> There is nothing hidden, your seasonal price is what you will pay regardless of how many snow events or how many times we are in your driveway. It's not for everybody but it's worked well for us the last 25 years.


I always thought that way until '13-'14.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

I was taught by a few successful businessmen and a college professor and they were stating that in the service industry especially, never give them their money back, never.

you can offer them a discount on future services or a product or something else
But no refunds, not even a little bit.
.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I always thought that way until '13-'14.


We were 2014-2015 fortunately it was also very cold that winter so we could move it. I believe we were a little over 100" that year. I'm willing to play averages after having a low of 3 snow events 1994/1995 and a high of 20 1995/1996. This year with 5 plowable snow events in the books and warm temps to finish out the month. We will see what March and April bring.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Hydromaster said:


> I was taught by a few successful businessmen and a college professor and they were stating that in the service industry especially, never give them their money back, never.
> 
> you can offer them a discount on future services or a product or something else
> But no refunds, not even a little bit.
> .


And that is our belief as well.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Well if the 40+ hour storm forecast for monday through tuesday, possibly into wednesday early morning doesn't tell you that you should remove snow multiple times throughout the event, I can't help you. 

Common sense is common sense. Come on America! We got smarter folks here than most perceive. Don't let anyonr else dream otherwise.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Unless it's just one or two properties, sometimes you're going to be pushing some deep stuff on the later properties. I cleared a lot of about 2-3" last month and came back 2 hours later to 3 ft drifts in certain spots. Glad I had cleared most of the lot previously but by the time I got back it had dumped several more inches and drifted some spots. It ended up being a lot of work to get the drifts clear and there was nothing I could do about it but just ram through.


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## SnowHampshire (Nov 8, 2020)

I'm wondering how per push solo guys with large routes handle this...


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

SnowHampshire said:


> I'm wondering how per push solo guys with large routes handle this...


With crappy service I would imagine


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Why?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SnowHampshire said:


> I'm wondering how per push solo guys with large routes handle this...


"Plow with the storm" since some still believe that fable.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

SnowHampshire said:


> I'm wondering how per push solo guys with large routes handle this...


Solo, primarily per push, 6hr route.... larger route would be a death march for big storms.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Solo, primarily per push, 6hr route.... larger route would be a death march for big storms.


So you were one of those crappy service guys...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So you were one of those crappy service guys...


if it worked for decades you stick with it


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Shady said:


> With crappy service I would imagine


Define a long route.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Define a long route.


I had about 70 residential accounts spread over 3 towns doing them by myself in the early 90's when I was doing this as a side hustle, I provided a crappy service. We now have approx 90 residential accounts primarily in 1 town with 4 trucks that we can provide an excellent service and get around the entire route in 3hrs. Our last storm was an 8" long duration storm that we were in our customers driveways 3 times and we covered that with 9 man hours per truck.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Shady said:


> With crappy service I would imagine


Apologies


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Shady said:


> I had about 70 residential accounts spread over 3 towns doing them by myself in the early 90's when I was doing this as a side hustle, I provided a crappy service. We now have approx 90 residential accounts primarily in 1 town with 4 trucks that we can provide an excellent service and get around the entire route in 3hrs. Our last storm was an 8" long duration storm that we were in our customers driveways 3 times and we covered that with 9 man hours per truck.


This is an avg size driveway we service.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

How big is this town?


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## Shady (11 mo ago)




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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Mark Oomkes said:


> How big is this town?


I just looked it up 33.7 square miles


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

We're doing 50-70 drives in about 4 hours, with 1 tractor and inverted blower. Depends on the route. All 3 have private roads they blow as well. Some drives are similar to what you posted. Some have turnarounds, some are fairly easy with 3 stall garages, that route has more drives.

3 routes, 3 tractors. 1 travels about 10 miles start to finish.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Mark Oomkes said:


> We're doing 50-70 drives in about 4 hours, with 1 tractor and inverted blower. Depends on the route. All 3 have private roads they blow as well. Some drives are similar to what you posted. Some have turnarounds, some are fairly easy with 3 stall garages, that route has more drives.
> 
> 3 routes, 3 tractors. 1 travels about 10 miles start to finish.


I agree, I don't believe it's the size of the route that is the problem it's the amount of time it takes to get around a route. BUFF mentioned it takes 6 hours to get around his route. If he started at 3" and it started snowing 1"/hr by the time he got around his route some driveways would have 9" on them by the time he got to them. I completely understand why larger storms could create a problem.


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

Shady said:


> I agree, I don't believe it's the size of the route that is the problem it's the amount of time it takes to get around a route. BUFF mentioned it takes 6 hours to get around his route. If he started at 3" and it started snowing 1"/hr by the time he got around his route some driveways would have 9" on them by the time he got to them. I completely understand why larger storms could create a problem.


Like Mark mentioned your routes might be ripe for a tractor. Have it clear the majority that are most concentrated and have a truck take care of the outliers. A tractor doesnt really care about snow depth so keeping up with a heavy snow is not much of an issue.

We have many drives like the one you pictured on our routes. Certainly not the majority but part of the fun. Our tractor routes vary from 50-90 drives each with lots of drive time. We're maxed right now with 6.5-7hr route times.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

The long duration 8” storm I mentioned we traveled about 90 miles per truck. While a tractor or tractors may be nice we don’t have any other use for them. We certainly could use one on a certain part of our routes that is fairly condensed in the center of town. That is our overlap area for 3 of the trucks. We can easily service our entire route with 3 trucks in events of 6” or less however I have it set up for 4 trucks which allows us to handle the larger storms without being out for an ungodly amount of hours.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> We're doing 50-70 drives in about 4 hours, with 1 tractor and inverted blower. Depends on the route. All 3 have private roads they blow as well. Some drives are similar to what you posted. Some have turnarounds, some are fairly easy with 3 stall garages, that route has more drives.
> 
> 3 routes, 3 tractors. 1 travels about 10 miles start to finish.


So 1 tractor basically does 60 driveways….is that all that tractor does to produce income? Honeslty doesn't seem like mulch?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

plow4beer said:


> So 1 tractor basically does 60 driveways….is that all that tractor does to produce income? Honeslty doesn't seem like mulch?


What? At $15 ea! Do the math!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

plow4beer said:


> So 1 tractor basically does 60 driveways….is that all that tractor does to produce income? Honeslty doesn't seem like mulch?


This isn't the redi-mix high dollar MP bizness.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Ajlawn1 said:


> What? At $15 ea! Do the math!


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Landgreen said:


> Like Mark mentioned your routes might be ripe for a tractor. Have it clear the majority that are most concentrated and have a truck take care of the outliers. A tractor doesnt really care about snow depth so keeping up with a heavy snow is not much of an issue.
> 
> We have many drives like the one you pictured on our routes. Certainly not the majority but part of the fun. Our tractor routes vary from 50-90 drives each with lots of drive time. We're maxed right now with 6.5-7hr route times.


Ok so now you guys have my wheels spinning about this tractor thing. We have a 165 home subdivision in our town that the driveways are not plowing friendly. I just did a drive thru and it seems 75% or more are snowblowed by the homeowners. They would be perfect for blowing with a tractor. There is an HOA so perhaps it may be worthwhile to solicit the HOA for potential interest. I know nothing about tractors but one of my drivers is a full time employee of a local orchard and could be a perfect fit. I guess the challenge would be selling the homeowners on having us snowblow instead of them. I believe I will need to research this a bit deeper.

This is a concept that is unheard of around here, but certainly worth investigating. These types of subdivisions do not exist as most towns in the area have 2ac min lot size .


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## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

Shady said:


> Ok so now you guys have my wheels spinning about this tractor thing. We have a 165 home subdivision in our town that the driveways are not plowing friendly. I just did a drive thru and it seems 75% or more are snowblowed by the homeowners. They would be perfect for blowing with a tractor. There is an HOA so perhaps it may be worthwhile to solicit the HOA for potential interest. I know nothing about tractors but one of my drivers is a full time employee of a local orchard and could be a perfect fit. I guess the challenge would be selling the homeowners on having us snowblow instead of them. I believe I will need to research this a bit deeper.
> 
> This is a concept that is unheard of around here, but certainly worth investigating. These types of subdivisions do not exist as most towns in the area have 2ac min lot size .


Cool.Good luck.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

plow4beer said:


> So 1 tractor basically does 60 driveways….is that all that tractor does to produce income? Honeslty doesn't seem like mulch?


It is ton when clients pre-pay up front by October 1st for the enitre winter season.

@Shady looks like a very affluent area in Taxachussetes. Seems you've been going over a few of the big threads here dealing with tractors and such equipment and implements. Now sell the clients on blowers and brooms only with a fantastic finished product and charge up front for the season accordingly.
Say a grand easily for the driveway in your pictures. With only the long drive I can make out from your picture, I'd throw out a 1500 seasonal price(without sidewalks, steps, pathways and in front of garage doors). Gives you wiggle room and barter if you choose(and the numbers work for your business). 2k with sidewalk, pathways and steps and in front of garage doors or buildings.

Provide the best service, and using the correct and best equipment, these affluent homeowners will pay it.

Touching again on the "plow with the storm", some here are correct. We always have long drawn out snowfalls it seems. 24 hour to 2 days frequently to get 7 inch and upwards storms. We have to to hit clients at least 2 times. Alot of times a 3rd pass just to remove the municiple plow pile/s that are left in the ends of clients driveways. Our city plows are incompetent and are super slow getting anything accomplished in a timely manner.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

Ice-sage said:


> It is ton when clients pre-pay up front by October 1st for the enitre winter season.
> 
> @Shady looks like a very affluent area in Taxachussetes. Seems you've been going over a few of the big threads here dealing with tractors and such equipment and implements. Now sell the clients on blowers and brooms only with a fantastic finished product and charge up front for the season accordingly.
> Say a grand easily for the driveway in your pictures. With only the long drive I can make out from your picture, I'd throw out a 1500 seasonal price(without sidewalks, steps, pathways and in front of garage doors). Gives you wiggle room and barter if you choose(and the numbers work for your business). 2k with sidewalk, pathways and steps and in front of garage doors or buildings.
> ...


This driveway better represents an avg driveway (road at the base of pic)in the subdivision I mentioned that would be good for a tractor. The other driveways I have posted pictures of is a good representation of the driveways we currently plow.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Shady said:


> This driveway better represents an avg driveway (road at the base of pic)in the subdivision I mentioned that would be good for a tractor. The other driveways I have posted pictures of is a good representation of the driveways we currently plow.
> View attachment 237188


That's a 1-2minute driveway


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

plow4beer said:


> That's a 1-2minute driveway


On a slow day.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

You guys must have some high quality dense driveways. 

I personally haven't started plowing drives. I still pull up there with the snowblower, shovel and salt spreader. Plow is on the truck, and i'll use it to clear the plowed in part of the end of the driveway, but otherwise my customers get the blower or shovel. It's almost easier.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

rippinryno said:


> You guys must have some high quality dense driveways.
> 
> I personally haven't started plowing drives. I still pull up there with the snowblower, shovel and salt spreader. Plow is on the truck, and i'll use it to clear the plowed in part of the end of the driveway, but otherwise my customers get the blower or shovel. It's almost easier.


If you don't mind me asking how much would you charge to snowblow the driveway I showed 4 posts back? Basically 2 car wide and 2 or 3 car deep.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Somewhere around 60 bucks per clear. Anything over 4" will have an added charge.

I have very few per push, most of my residentials pay monthly for full service.


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## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

rippinryno said:


> Somewhere around 60 bucks per clear. Anything over 4" will have an added charge.
> 
> I have very few per push, most of my residentials pay monthly for full service.


Estimated time per push/cleaning? Same driveway.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

15-20 minutes max at each of the 3 drives that are per push. 

IF they want ice melt they get an upcharge as well.


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## Shady (11 mo ago)

rippinryno said:


> Somewhere around 60 bucks per clear. Anything over 4" will have an added charge.


Must take 30min or so to unload snowblow and load back up? We could probably conservatively do 6 of those in 30 min assuming they were in the same neighborhood using a 7.5' straight blade with a back drag. And obviously the tractor with the blower would probably double that number. A snowblower will certainly do a neater better job than a plow. Our rate would be closer to $550 for the season (avg 10 snow events)


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I use toro power clear snowblowers and can drop the tailgate and set one on the ground in 30 seconds. I also have a 4ft shovel for the lighter snowfalls. 

$550 a season for my area would be low. The per push folks probably end up paying something in that ballpark, which is why they don't get the same priority. Those people are just added income to the current route and they get done last. 

My seasonal folks are paying a good deal more than that for the season because they get taken care of.


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