# All this talk about wings…more ideas.



## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

Ok with all these people making wings have been giving me a lot of ideas lately. Some good recent posts and fabrication on wings. Most who install or make wings say they will never go back to no-wings as they are a huge time saver. Not here for pros and cons.

Anyway, my mind often wanders to take wings to the next step. Kind of sound like someone else here but not quite. 
I do not like the rubber edge on the wings. Maybe I am wrong but scraping with rubber ain’t going to cut it. So why not make the wings trip. Making a trip edge mechanism is easy. Copy the trip and hinge set up from an old diamond and even utilize one of the horizontal springs on each side. This way you could run a real cutting edge and even wrap them around and make them “curb guards”. I already have the springs and the tube the spring slides over. Making the trip would be easy. 

And to add to that now make the wings hydraulically controlled. I have searched here and a couple posters have done it but they never really posted their end result as to valve usage and such. A DO5 valve comes to mind which will most likely require a separate pump, or even use a Fisher extreme V pump to control the plow as well as the wings. I have not put much thought into this yet. Even 2 old school fisher spool valves come to mind with 2 double acting cylinders-LOL. I have drawings for my hinges, cylinder pins and all bracketry. Once I get my CNC plasma cutter up and running I may consider this. People ask why I would want to fold the wings back. There are certain areas that I plow that have narrow in ways between 2 buildings and such. 

As you can see from many of my other projects I am not a hack. All my stuff is well thought out and my fabrication skills and equipment is up to par. Talk me off the ledge in regards to hydraulics and trip edge wings.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

I would like to do something similar. I currently have a set of wings, they have the yellow poly its lasted 10 times as long as the black rubber ones. I want to box off the ends of my other plow l have enough rubber to make cutting edges the only concern I have is if the blade trips then what's going to happen to the boxed ends my luck I will destroy them


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

rjigto4oje;1900432 said:


> I would like to do something similar. I currently have a set of wings, they have the yellow poly its lasted 10 times as long as the black rubber ones. I want to box off the ends of my other plow l have enough rubber to make cutting edges the only concern I have is if the blade trips then what's going to happen to the boxed ends my luck I will destroy them


If you want a box in your Full trip plow this what you have to do So it can trip
This pivots in 3 spots but on truck plows you only need 2 spots


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Antlerart06;1900440 said:


> If you want a box in you Full trip plow this what you have to do So it can trip


Can you post more detailed pics or a video that is what I want to do


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

rjigto4oje;1900441 said:


> Can you post more detailed pics or a video that is what I want to do


I don't have any details or videos on how to make them

You ask question I sure will answer them


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Antlerart06;1900472 said:


> I don't have any details or videos on how to make them
> 
> You ask question I sure will answer them


ok thanks it may be a while with the holidays and no snow and an injured finger


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

TJS;1900423 said:


> Ok with all these people making wings have been giving me a lot of ideas lately. Some good recent posts and fabrication on wings. Most who install or make wings say they will never go back to no-wings as they are a huge time saver. Not here for pros and cons.
> 
> Anyway, my mind often wanders to take wings to the next step. Kind of sound like someone else here but not quite.
> I do not like the rubber edge on the wings. Maybe I am wrong but scraping with rubber ain't going to cut it. So why not make the wings trip. Making a trip edge mechanism is easy. Copy the trip and hinge set up from an old diamond and even utilize one of the horizontal springs on each side. This way you could run a real cutting edge and even wrap them around and make them "curb guards". I already have the springs and the tube the spring slides over. Making the trip would be easy.
> ...


Say with all your talk you think about the weight get to much added to the plow The lift ram wont lift it Something to think about


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## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

Antlerart06;1900909 said:


> Say with all your talk you think about the weight get to much added to the plow The lift ram wont lift it Something to think about


In all realality the ram does not do the lifting. The pump does. The pressure does the force of the lifting and the volume does the speed of the lifting. If you have a pump capable of handling the weight that should not be a problem. My old diamond plow is a tank already. I have a modified Fenner pump on it now that has an upgraded pump to a 3.1cc/rev and the heavy duty motor. Stock is 1.6 cc/rev and talk about slow and weak. The extra weight might max out at 100 Lbs more. If I need to run an extra pump it will be mounted on the left side of the upright so lifting that weight will not be added to the extra weight. I will see if I can find two fat chicks to simulate the extra weight and then some to see what it does for performance.


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## Doughboy12 (Oct 15, 2014)

TJS;1902730 said:


> In all realality the ram does not do the lifting. The pump does. The pressure does the force of the lifting and the volume does the speed of the lifting. If you have a pump capable of handling the weight that should not be a problem. My old diamond plow is a tank already. I have a modified Fenner pump on it now that has an upgraded pump to a 3.1cc/rev and the heavy duty motor. Stock is 1.6 cc/rev and talk about slow and weak. The extra weight might max out at 100 Lbs more. If I need to run an extra pump it will be mounted on the left side of the upright so lifting that weight will not be added to the extra weight. I will see if I can find two fat chicks to simulate the extra weight and then some to see what it does for performance.


If this were true there would only be one size ram...in many lengths... :waving:


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

tjs is on the right track.
why diffident size rams, to do different jobs.......


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## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

SnoFarmer;1902782 said:


> tjs is on the right track.
> why diffident size rams, to do different jobs.......


Thanks. I did not want to throw all the formulas out, but you get my point. You can lift some serious weight with the right pump combinations and packaging. This is the least of my issues.


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## JFon101231 (Dec 5, 2008)

TJS;1900423 said:


> As you can see from many of my other projects I am not a hack. All my stuff is well thought out and my fabrication skills and equipment is up to par. Talk me off the ledge in regards to hydraulics and trip edge wings.


You probably shouldn't ruin your existing nice equipment in this trial. Why don't I bring down one of my plows for you to try it out on? Sub'd!

Reminds me of a hydraulic backdrag edge (think down pressure!) that I once saw. Seemed sweet.


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## cwby_ram (Jan 15, 2011)

I was dreaming this through on a piece of paper last year. You've got it more thought out than I did, so I'm mostly just commenting here to follow progress. But the easiest I could figure was a second pump to control the wings, and maybe a pin to pull to fold them back for narrower places. I'm lacking sufficient tools and space (and skills) to do this, and frankly, the thought of extra pumps, operating two controllers, etc, ultimately has me saving my pennies for a used blizzard, but I'd love to see someone do this!


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

TJS;1902730 said:


> In all realality the ram does not do the lifting. The pump does. The pressure does the force of the lifting and the volume does the speed of the lifting. If you have a pump capable of handling the weight that should not be a problem. My old diamond plow is a tank already. I have a modified Fenner pump on it now that has an upgraded pump to a 3.1cc/rev and the heavy duty motor. Stock is 1.6 cc/rev and talk about slow and weak. The extra weight might max out at 100 Lbs more. If I need to run an extra pump it will be mounted on the left side of the upright so lifting that weight will not be added to the extra weight. I will see if I can find two fat chicks to simulate the extra weight and then some to see what it does for performance.


I had a western 8ft plow I made side boards for it and Pump had power but the lift ram couldn't handle the load seal/packing wouldnt hold up to the weight I had to switch to a pump that had the bigger ram
Meyers always had more lifting power vs western


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## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

As i sais with the right packaging i.e. cylinder size and pump output you can get hydraulics to do amazing things. The problem and constraint with plow set ups is the vehicle electrical system. The size of the gear in the pump determines the performance.


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

Well the good news, if you want to call it that, is that you'll have alot of time to work on fabbing something up cause i don't see any plowable snow in our near future. Always enjoy following your builds.


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## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

Maybe with all this no snow I am dreaming. But here it goes.

Ok. I have been thinking how I am going to hydraulically get the wings to move. I looked into the Meyer valves but I need a solenoid to be activated and at rest without activation and you power up the motor I think it turns left. So that is out. So now the Fisher Insta-act takes 12v to S2 to move right and 12v to S2 and S3 to move left. So here is my crazy thinking. Run a separate pump for the wings which will be an Insta-act. But, and a big but, run 2 manifolds stacked upon each other like a sandwich. I would need to machine the 2 manifolds where they meet and oring groove where the inlet of the pump would be. I have to study the passages though. I would also need to machine a longer shaft and run 2 shaft seals. I am not a machinist but can machine parts to get things to work(Lather and Mill). I have an insta act pump just sitting around. I would need to locate another manifold. Wiring would be cake, 2 momentary toggles and 2 diodes. One for the left wing and one for the right wing. This will be a summer build. Going to start looking for parts now.
T.J.


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## JFon101231 (Dec 5, 2008)

Would it be easier to start with a Barnes type dump pump that would activate 12v for any motion then worry about controlling the valves/solenoids in a separate bank all fed from the one pump output?

I had used one style of those (3 way, gravity down) they sell on northern tool for like $650 on an older speed cast setup and I liked it. Simple and effective.


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## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

JFon101231;1916940 said:


> Would it be easier to start with a Barnes type dump pump that would activate 12v for any motion then worry about controlling the valves/solenoids in a separate bank all fed from the one pump output?
> 
> I had used one style of those (3 way, gravity down) they sell on northern tool for like $650 on an older speed cast setup and I liked it. Simple and effective.


To answer your comment in a word NO .I have 2 dump pumps laying around. One is from a tailgate set up the other is from a dumper. Both have gravity down. I can use one of them but the magic is all in the
valve-ing in order to control the 2 double acting cylinders that will be controlling the wings. So having another pump will most likely be a must. I figure the Insta act with stacked manifolds. I have yet to study the Insta act I have that is all apart. Using the Insta Act will also have protection for the wings in regards to a cross over relief for each wing. Having a joy stick for each wing would be easier in the wiring and it really would not add to my mounting set up. The pic is old as I have since upgraded my home made console and switch panel with more switches. But I have another mount for the joystick(aluminum angle set up in the pic) with more holes in it









T.J.


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