# New to snow removal..what should I bid on a aptment complex



## Pde123 (Oct 18, 2016)

I am new to snow removal and am not sure how much I should charge, here in southern mn for plowing and shoveling. Per visit? Seasonal? Per inch? This is for a residential place. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated ! Thanks !


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Here's a couple questions that the answers wood bee helpful.
Do ewe have a G/L policy for snow removal?
Have ewe figured oot you're operating cost?
What equipment do ewe have to do the job?
Size of area to be plowed/shoveled? Ewe can use Find Lot Size http://www.findlotsize.com/?place=Enter+Address+of+Place&submit=Go&r=e and enter the address to find oot how big the area is. Posting a screen shot wood bee helpful.
At what point are you going to plow, 1", 2", 3", 4" of accumulation?
Are you spreading salt/de-icer, are you using bulk or bagged, do ewe have an idea of cost of the materials?
Per visit / per push is the easiest way to price, seasonal pricing requires researching annual snow fall and frequency history to come up with a cost
Is there room to stack/pile snow or does it need to be hauled off or relocated elsewhere on the property?


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## Pde123 (Oct 18, 2016)

BUFF said:


> Here's a couple questions that the answers wood bee helpful.
> Do ewe have a G/L policy for snow removal?
> Have ewe figured oot you're operating cost?
> What equipment do ewe have to do the job?
> ...


Like I said I'm very new to snow removal. What is a G/L policy ? How would i come up with a seasonal price for how much snow we get per snowfall...unsure how much more should charge per inch? 5 inches over 10? Thanks


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Insurance.....general liability. . . search for seasonal snow fall rates. I'd personally suggest plowing for a company first time get you feet wet


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

You should go work/sub for someone for a year or two. Ask lots of questions. Then try going out on your own.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Enough to cover your labor, overhead and profit.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Apartment complex will ask for workmans comp. With the shoveling you will not be a sole operation. Answer buff's ?'s above and you will get some help. When you say new are you meaning to the bidding and biz end? Have you ever moved snow before? I hate to discourage anyone but it will take you longer to learn how to plow than the biz end. If you never plowed dieselss advice should be considered. 

If you never plowed before 30min. Job could take you 1 1/2hr. To be productive you need to know where to put snow, Stack snow, and angle your blade correctly to wind row and not chase windrows all day. How do you intend on salting?

You have to be available 24-7 including holidays. Whats your back up plan if you break down etc?


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## cgrizzle3929 (Oct 13, 2016)

I'm the same boat. I bought a lawn and landscaping company and now I won a bid for a condo and high rise apartment. The total square ft is 169000. I do not have to do the sidewalks only plowing and salting. I quoted 1 to 4 inches at 500 per and 4 to 8 at 975 salting 425. My question is with my bid I do not know what trigger they want. So how does this whole thing work? If it's 2 inch trigger I come out at 2 inches and plow but if it's a storm and I have to repeat do I charge every time? Or do I only charge say my 4 to 8 price if we get 6 inches even if I plow 3 times. I'm not sure how it works I just had some connections to know what they wanted to see.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

169000 of pavement, or that's the size of the complex. Have you ever plowed anything this size before?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cgrizzle3929 said:


> I'm the same boat. I bought a lawn and landscaping company and now I won a bid for a condo and high rise apartment. The total square ft is 169000. I do not have to do the sidewalks only plowing and salting. I quoted 1 to 4 inches at 500 per and 4 to 8 at 975 salting 425. My question is with my bid I do not know what trigger they want. So how does this whole thing work? If it's 2 inch trigger I come out at 2 inches and plow but if it's a storm and I have to repeat do I charge every time? Or do I only charge say my 4 to 8 price if we get 6 inches even if I plow 3 times. I'm not sure how it works I just had some connections to know what they wanted to see.


Ummmm, 4 acres for $500? Apartments and condos?

And I'm not even sure where to start with the rest.

I hope you're joking.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

cgrizzle3929 said:


> I'm the same boat. I bought a lawn and landscaping company and now I won a bid for a condo and high rise apartment. The total square ft is 169000. I do not have to do the sidewalks only plowing and salting. I quoted 1 to 4 inches at 500 per and 4 to 8 at 975 salting
> 425. My question is with my bid I do not know
> what trigger they want. So how does this whole thing work? If it's 2 inch trigger I come out at 2 inches and plow but if it's a storm and I have to repeat do I charge every time? Or do I only
> 
> ...


One very important question....How did you come up with these numbers???...Dart board or out your backside??


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> One very important question....How did you come up with these numbers???...Dart board or out your backside??


Culd bee both.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Read it again, you already won the bid. This should have been spelled out. See above


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

cgrizzle3929 said:


> I'm the same boat. I bought a lawn and landscaping company and now I won a bid for a condo and high rise apartment. The total square ft is 169000. I do not have to do the sidewalks only plowing and salting. I quoted 1 to 4 inches at 500 per and 4 to 8 at 975 salting
> 
> 425. My question is with my bid I do not know what trigger they want. So how does this whole thing work? If it's 2 inch trigger I come out at 2 inches and plow but if it's a storm and I have to
> 
> ...


Ok...I have calmed down...

Couple of questions...How do you "Win" the bid if you don't know the trigger??

Also...What are your salt cost??

What are you using to plow this four acres??

How long do you think it will take to plow this 4 acres with said equipment??

This is the time of year where the word Befuddled comes into my vocabulary


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## cgrizzle3929 (Oct 13, 2016)

Haha always enjoy everyone's comments negative or positive. I knew what the lowest bid was besides mine from a large company. Salt is 85 a yard. Right now until it increases but I'm going to buy bulk. The other bids did not list a trigger either that's why I didn't specify. Thanks every comment is appreciated. Also I'm in Michigan. With the comments I seen are you guys saying this is expensive or cheap?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

cgrizzle3929 said:


> Haha always enjoy everyone's comments negative or positive. I knew what the lowest bid was besides mine from a large company. Salt is 85 a yard. Right now until it increases but I'm going to buy bulk. The other bids did not list a trigger either that's why I didn't specify.
> 
> Thanks every comment is appreciated. Also I'm in Michigan. With the comments I seen are you guys saying this is expensive or cheap?


$85 a yard???....You sure about that...As for your bid..Cant really comment on that..Dont know what your using or your costs


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## cgrizzle3929 (Oct 13, 2016)

According to the people selling salt. Once again is that too high or too low


Defcon 5 said:


> $85 a yard???....You sure about that...As for your bid..Cant really comment on that..Dont know what your using or your costs


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

cgrizzle3929 said:


> I'm the same boat. I bought a lawn and landscaping company and now I won a bid for a condo and high rise apartment. The total square ft is 169000. I do not have to do the sidewalks only plowing and salting. I quoted 1 to 4 inches at 500 per and 4 to 8 at 975 salting 425. My question is with my bid I do not know what trigger they want. So how does this whole thing work? If it's 2 inch trigger I come out at 2 inches and plow but if it's a storm and I have to repeat do I charge every time? Or do I only charge say my 4 to 8 price if we get 6 inches even if I plow 3 times. I'm not sure how it works I just had some connections to know what they wanted to see.


 First oof pricing varies regionally, you're location wood defuse a lot of comments aboot the cost structure or open up Pandora's box.....
For a lot that size plan on spreading aboot 3-4K of salt depending on conditions and location. Your salt price is low unless you're getting it for under $50/ton.
Since the pricing starts at 1" this is you trigger, ewe charge every time ewe plow and charge the amount for the amount that has accumulated. Did they give ewe any idea as to how they want two have the property serviced/ how often they want the lot plowed?


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## Pde123 (Oct 18, 2016)

I do not have insurance or liability..was considering getting it? And I'm not exactly sure what for a trigger...do I give him a trigger amount or ask him what he wants? Is it better to have a smaller trigger amount? I have worked for 2 outdoor service company's shoveling snow...never plowed before tho..I would rather not go work for them or someone again and make next to nothing if I didn't have too...is it that difficult or is there a lot to learn when it comes to plowing? Also yes I'm new to the biz end of it. I don't want to over bid the guy and loose it i need the work but also need to make some money..


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## Pde123 (Oct 18, 2016)

Thanks for the comments and advice. It's very appreciative


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## Pde123 (Oct 18, 2016)

...I had mowed for this guy this summer. He never asked for insurance liability just sent texts back and fourth about a price..I tried calling but no answer just text back 4 days later..must be a busy guy?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Insurance is needed. Grandma goes out to get her paper, falls and breaks a hip. Who you think is getting sued.


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## Pde123 (Oct 18, 2016)

Getting insurance tomarrow..yes not going to risk going out of buisness before getting into it ! Thanks for the input everyone..still scamming to figure out numbers for aptment complex and a couple rental properties


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## reedo (Jan 2, 2014)

If you only have experience shoveling a little bit it may be better to go work with someone else and learn more about the business before jumping in. If you end up low on a bid you will be making less than working for someone else or even losing money on the job(s). Running a business is costly, the insurance is only a small part of it but one of the most important things to have before even thinking of bidding on any work.


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## reedo (Jan 2, 2014)

Not trying to be hard on you but it was obvious from your posts so far there is a lot to learn. Just take it slow and don't bite off more than you can chew. Also what happens if you have equipment go down during a storm? Do you have a plan on how to get the job done without said equipment? These people are going to be relying on you to get it done in a timely manner.


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## Pde123 (Oct 18, 2016)

I plan on bidding a little bit high to make sure my costs are covered and am making money just to be sure...but is running a plow really that hard ? Wasn't really worried about learning that but more so of the insurance thing and how much I should be charging, also contracts and making sure I get paid.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Pde123 said:


> I plan on bidding a little bit high to make sure my costs are covered and am making money just to be sure...but is running a plow really that hard ? Wasn't really worried about learning that but more so of the insurance thing and how much I should be charging, also contracts and making sure I get paid.


:hammerhead: Running a plow efficiently takes a lot of practice. When I was working for a really large plowing company before going out on my own I saw a lot of people that just didn't get it. They put the new guys with me to ride with them and teach them how to plow. Even after a full season some guys just never get it. You would think it's just common sense but apparently for a lot of people it isn't. So yes for some it's very easy, and for some they think they are good when in reality they just don't get it. It takes time to learn the plow and truck combo, how much of a bite you can take with 4" of dry fluffy stuff compared to 4" of really wet, slushy stuff etc. you don't just jump in the truck and become good right away.


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## reedo (Jan 2, 2014)

It can be difficult as ktfbgb stated,some guys can do a lot in 30 minutes when it may take the next guy an hour or more. Some people just don't get it. Then besides plowing,what do you do when the snow piles get big enough they loose a good percentage of parking spots. You also need to deal with that. There's a lot more to it than just plowing and collecting pennies from heaven!


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## reedo (Jan 2, 2014)

Every site is different and presents its own unique challenges.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

reedo said:


> Every site is different and presents its own unique challenges.


Just like women....


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

BUFF said:


> Just like women....


Or Oomkes....


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## Pde123 (Oct 18, 2016)

If my truck and plow broke down I was planning on doing it with my blowers..they are all small enough to do it with a blower


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Pde123 said:


> If my truck and plow broke down I was planning on doing it with my blowers..they are all small enough to do it with a blower


Just make a handshake agreement with a buddy who also plows. You back him up and he back you up in case of break downs, giant blizzard, etc. Its what I do instead of having extra trucks right now. That may change next year but for now it works for me. It always helps to have a network of guys you can cont on across all trades anyway.


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## Pde123 (Oct 18, 2016)




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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Randall Ave said:


> You should go work/sub for someone for a year or two. Ask lots of questions. Then try going out on your own.


I agree, the size of this place would really depend on a lot here. Doing JUST sidewalks at a place can be a huge task already, let alone the logistics of doing it if you havn't gotten your feet wet at other commercial snow work already. Its all too easy to mess up sites like this even knowing a lot. We had accounts like this NOT pay for thousand dollar services because our crew missed one or two steps, just going too fast and not paying attention, fault of us for not double checking after each service doing a once around again. 2hrs of work for a 5 guy crew and not getting paid a dime sucks.


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