# Plowing with Family



## mafesto (Sep 30, 2009)

Hi all,

Maybe this has been addressed before on here, if so, please let me know.

I've been in business for a while, mowing and plowing residential customers in the outskirts of Toronto, Canada. Once the kiddies came along, my wife and I made the hard decision to get out of plowing due to the on-call, 24-hour, emergency-service nature of this game. My wife's a teacher and needs to be at work at a specific time and we didn't feel we could impose on our neighbors to help with the girls because they were so young, and our parents live too far away to be much assistance.

The girls are now 5 + 7, they go to school full-time and are well behaved (mostly).

I've been thinking about getting back into plowing but I'd still like to find a healthy way to manage the customers' needs and family-time during the winter months.

My main concerns are this:
1. From 6:30 am to 9:00 am, I'm alone with the girls, getting them ready to get on the bus.
2. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Family Day (3rd Monday in February in Canada) are important holidays for us as we typically spend time with friends & family, or go away overnight.
3. I'm concerned with breaking promises to my family too, ie. missing school plays, or sports events. I don't want to be that guy who is always apologizing to my kids because I'm "too busy" for them.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on how to mitigate these concerns and opening a discussion about this. And if you have dealt with this successfully (or partially successfully), I'd love to hear your story.

Thanks for reading!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Plowing may just not be your best option. Family is very important, and if never missing those holidays and being able to watch the girls in the mornings is a must, it sounds like this just isn't a good time to get back into plowing.

If you have employees that can handle 100% of the responsibilities during these times, that may be an option. You sit it out, pay them a different winter salary to handle that side of it, and let them run everything.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Don’t plow. 

You’re not available in the mornings
Or holidays, Birthdays, anniversary or groundhog day or any other time when people want to go and visit families. 
With your level of service they will be unable to because they’re snowed in as the plow guy didn’t show up.


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## mafesto (Sep 30, 2009)

@JMHConstruction, I was just starting to expand the business when we started having kids, so we never got to the transition period where I could send a crew out to do the work.

I've thought about merging with another company who does winter work (and lawn maintenance) to get back in the business, but that could be another can of worms too.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

That kind of reminds me of the guys I’ve hiered in the fall and is soon as they’re hired they ask for deer season off. :terribletowel:

subbing could be an option & when you tell the guy you’re subbing for all of the days you won’t work he’s going to think twice.


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## mafesto (Sep 30, 2009)

@Hydromaster, that's why we decided to get out. I did enjoy the work though.
It'd be nice to have some kind of income during the winter. I always have to kill myself during the summer to make it through the winter, and it's always a bit nerve wracking.
It takes it's toll on my body after a while too (would be nice to be 25 again).


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

You cant plan when mother nature calls, so if you cant be available 24/7 during those times, then plowing for yourself doesn't sound like it's for you.


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## SilverPine (Dec 7, 2018)

Plowing is a full time job that takes no mercy on your schedule. You have to be fully committed. Even with employees, you wont be able to have all your holidays.


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## Daley Construction (Nov 15, 2017)

I’m in a very similar place as you down to my wife being a teacher and being responsible for my two boys from wake up till daycare drop off at 8:40. 

For me plowing is just some extra income as I still work during the winter(Renovations) and a little fun with the machine. 

I don’t usually take on any regular contracts but have a few guys in town that I will help out with bigger dumps. I just took over a gas station for a Freind but it’s really flexible. I sometimes will Plow it at midnight or 5am when they are closed but I can also go during the day. 

I looked into city pathways this year as they are more flexible also just needing to be done the day it snows but I was to late to get any this year.


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## mafesto (Sep 30, 2009)

@Daley Construction, that sounds like a sweet deal. I enjoy plowing. If I could find a way to have flexibility in the schedule that would work out fine.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Better find something else to do in the winter.


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## SilverPine (Dec 7, 2018)

Marketing yourself as an emergency service could work. There are alot of solo guys out there that have break downs and are in need of help last minute. Scheduling MAY be a bit more flexible if your helping someone in a pinch.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

If you love snow.You could always be a National service provider....


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Same boat in terms of children...5 year old, 3 year old and 6 month old. Different boat in terms of understanding from my wife. She's not a teacher and is currently off on maternity leave. So she brings the 3 and 5 year old to school and preschool (helps that the preschool is in the same building as the school and the school is 2 minutes walking distance from the house) she also picks them up at the end of the day. 
This is provided I'm working snow. If I'm not working snow I'm dropping the kids off and picking them up. To be honest, it's worse on her in the summer when I'm doing irrigation because she's doing the picking up and dropping off everyday. She looks forward to the help in the winter. 
I also have two parents who are retired (teachers, ha) that help out / have helped out a lot when my wife is feeling overwhelmed or needs a break or we get jammed up with needing to be two places at once. 
When my wife isn't on maternity leave she works for someone who understands the situation and let's her work 9:30 - 3:30. 
I understand my situation is very unique and there is a lot of support behind me but this isn't the only grind out there. My brother in law is a financial planner. He's trying to build his book. Evenings and weekends are eaten up because he's meeting with clients (who work 9-5) I have a cousin who is a lawyer - he's at his office every Sunday like clockwork. Then there are police officers, firefighters, emergency workers....
Think of it this way. What if you were a teacher along with your wife and needed to be at work for 9 am as well (or before)? You guys would make it work for sure (my parents did) trade off was I went to the school where my mom taught. 
I'm not trying to start a domestic believe me. Happy wife and all that. Family is very important. Christmas, Christmas eve, family day are all important. It's really about what you and your wife are comfortable with / can tolerate. Every situation is different.
When you're not plowing, you're helping ballerinas feed their babies.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Also, whereabouts in the GTA are you?


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

My first season and part of my second season I tried plowing while working a full time job. I was in school as well and had gotten married just a few months earlier. Not your exact situation, but similar in terms of having a lot of commitments and trying to figure out how to be 3 place at one time.
A few thoughts...
I would stay out of commercial, unless your subbing for whoever has the contract. 

I would try and build a small, dense, residential route. Many homeowners aren’t too particular about the timing of the snow removal, as long as it gets done within a reasonable amount of time after the storm. I would focus on this type of customer. Avoid anyone who wants you to show up as soon as a trigger is reached or immediately after the storm is over. They will make your life hard until your ready to commit to snow removal full time. 

As was mentioned, you could sub for larger companies. Be honest with them and tell them that you will be unavailable during certain times. If your good and they are busy that won’t bother them and they will be glad for the help. 

Finally, you could hire employees, however be aware that this usually just creates a new set of headaches and you will at sometime assuredly have to deal with a no-show employee, at which point you’ll have to go out and plow, putting you back to square one.

my 2nd season of snow removal we had a banner snow year, getting twice our average. I was out plowing constantly. I realized that In order to keep my sanity and stop letting people down, I had to commit to plowing and make it a lifestyle during the winter. I treat it with much more respect now and while there is still stress associated with the job, it has decreased to a manageable level and I have been able to continue pushing snow, something that I really do enjoy.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Well to be honest owning a business my not be for you. You are never not on call to handle your clients needs. As for plowing don’t even think about it. I understand the kids problem as I have three. When the boys where younger we still plowed they just went not so easy st times but it worked for me. Now they are pushing me out of the business lol.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

fireside said:


> Well to be honest owning a business my not be for you. You are never not on call to handle your clients needs. As for plowing don't even think about it. I understand the kids problem as I have three. When the boys where younger we still plowed they just went not so easy st times but it worked for me. Now they are pushing me out of the business lol.


 Your a lucky guy, I wish I had Family pushing me out. I had a sharp young guy I was grooming to take over. He developed cancer and died he could of handled it to. Man I miss that kid.


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## doh (Sep 23, 2003)

Our Daughter was 9 days old, when we plowed my 12 mile Ice Road with her.

There is a 12 Passenger Van in town with a Snow Bear, Take the Whole Neighbourhood Plowing.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

@FredG my condolences. That's a tough loss.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> @FredG my condolences. That's a tough loss.


 Thanks. He been gone 3 years now, have not yet come across anybody that I would even consider taking over. Hopefully I'll run across somebody in the 4 years I got to hang out till my Wife retires.

Recently the guys are just dissolving when Family is not interested in the biz. One guy sold out to his crew I know. He's staying with them for 1 year before he hands it over.

He has them on monthly payments and some balloon payments over like 8 years.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I guess I could say I’m very lucky the boys have a small interest in the business. I just love to sit back and watch them work. My middle one jumps up in the loader with metal pless plow max zips around like nothing. I just need to remind them I got this far without them so I can’t be that stupid!

My mentor passed away 19 years ago. I’m pretty sure he would be scratching his head loaders, skid steers, wing plows, boxes salters, salt bins and expandable plows. Boy would he enjoy watching my boys


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## mafesto (Sep 30, 2009)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Also, whereabouts in the GTA are you?


I'm in Oakville.


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## mafesto (Sep 30, 2009)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Same boat in terms of children...5 year old, 3 year old and 6 month old. Different boat in terms of understanding from my wife. She's not a teacher and is currently off on maternity leave. So she brings the 3 and 5 year old to school and preschool (helps that the preschool is in the same building as the school and the school is 2 minutes walking distance from the house) she also picks them up at the end of the day.
> This is provided I'm working snow. If I'm not working snow I'm dropping the kids off and picking them up. To be honest, it's worse on her in the summer when I'm doing irrigation because she's doing the picking up and dropping off everyday. She looks forward to the help in the winter.
> I also have two parents who are retired (teachers, ha) that help out / have helped out a lot when my wife is feeling overwhelmed or needs a break or we get jammed up with needing to be two places at once.
> When my wife isn't on maternity leave she works for someone who understands the situation and let's her work 9:30 - 3:30.
> ...


Haha, cute. Looks familiar.
You have some good points. I'll need to think it through some more. I'm only going after the residential market, so there's usually more flexibility in the timing. I just found that when I was plowing in the past, it was giving me about 20% of my income, but 80% of my stress back then.

Maybe I could restructure it differently...


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## mafesto (Sep 30, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> If you love snow.You could always be a National service provider....


Not familiar with that, but curious as to what it is.


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## mafesto (Sep 30, 2009)

FredG said:


> Your a lucky guy, I wish I had Family pushing me out. I had a sharp young guy I was grooming to take over. He developed cancer and died he could of handled it to. Man I miss that kid.


Thanks for sharing. Sorry for your loss.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I liked plowing snow. I hated what it does to your life in the winter.

I am already on call all the time with my full time job. Being on call for two different jobs in the winter... took till about the time my boy was born to say forget that.

Life is to short, spend the time with your kids.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> I liked plowing snow. I hated what it does to your life in the winter.
> 
> I am already on call all the time with my full time job. Being on call for two different jobs in the winter... took till about the time my boy was born to say forget that.
> 
> Life is to short, spend the time with your kids.


Amen


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## Drock78 (Sep 22, 2011)

I have a different take on it than most that have posted. I work a full time job and plow a little on the side. My stuff is 95% commercial. Only 1 is open on weekends, none are open on holidays, usually plowed by 7am or after they close, so to me there is more flexibility there than residential drives that people want plowed 7 days a week.


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

Drock78 said:


> I have a different take on it than most that have posted. I work a full time job and plow a little on the side. My stuff is 95% commercial. Only 1 is open on weekends, none are open on holidays, usually plowed by 7am or after they close, so to me there is more flexibility there than residential drives that people want plowed 7 days a week.


Right on, Sounds like your customers have some flexibility in their snow removal needs that allow them to wait till closing if you don't get it by 7am. Those types of customers are hard to come by, particularly in the commercial side.


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## Drock78 (Sep 22, 2011)

Kinport said:


> Right on, Sounds like your customers have some flexibility in their snow removal needs that allow them to wait till closing if you don't get it by 7am. Those types of customers are hard to come by, particularly in the commercial side.


My job has some flexibility also, so if its snowing hard during the day I can plow if needed.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

When I read the title of this thread, I thought cool - someone else is asking about succession. I've had a bit of experience with succession planning on the ag side of things, but not in our industry. I have some friends in the industry that have gone through it, so they may be a valuable resource.

My wife has been a snow widow for 20 years, and 5 years before that when we dated. My kids have grown up knowing what snow means, as they have seen the long hours, been on ride-a-longs, been out to bring tools and parts with Mom for in the field repairs. My 2 oldest used to ride along as infants/toddlers with the wife back when she still plowed a small route. So my family knows the sacrifice that goes with the snow industry. We make it work, it's not always ideal or fun. But it's what keeps the lights on, and to have the work is a blessing.

We have now reached the milestone of where my kids can be involved. I have 3 daughters and a son, and my son is now a licensed driver. I took him out last week, and he plowed and salted his first lot on his own. He has a genuine interest in the industry, and that is exciting to see. My duaghters are on the fence, as the oldest has no interest, and the younger 2 have mentioned they would like to work with Dad. That's all fine and dandy now, but what happens in 5-10 years down the road when they are looking to settle down? It'd be better to figure that out now.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

GMC Driver said:


> When I read the title of this thread, I thought cool - someone else is asking about succession. I've had a bit of experience with succession planning on the ag side of things, but not in our industry. I have some friends in the industry that have gone through it, so they may be a valuable resource.
> 
> My wife has been a snow widow for 20 years, and 5 years before that when we dated. My kids have grown up knowing what snow means, as they have seen the long hours, been on ride-a-longs, been out to bring tools and parts with Mom for in the field repairs. My 2 oldest used to ride along as infants/toddlers with the wife back when she still plowed a small route. So my family knows the sacrifice that goes with the snow industry. We make it work, it's not always ideal or fun. But it's what keeps the lights on, and to have the work is a blessing.
> 
> We have now reached the milestone of where my kids can be involved. I have 3 daughters and a son, and my son is now a licensed driver. I took him out last week, and he plowed and salted his first lot on his own. He has a genuine interest in the industry, and that is exciting to see. My duaghters are on the fence, as the oldest has no interest, and the younger 2 have mentioned they would like to work with Dad. That's all fine and dandy now, but what happens in 5-10 years down the road when they are looking to settle down? It'd be better to figure that out now.


 Good for you. My kids don't have a lick of interest they are happy with what they are doing. As long as there happy and earning a good living it will be okay, I'll just have a auction and fade into retirement.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

FredG said:


> Good for you. My kids don't have a lick of interest they are happy with what they are doing. As long as there happy and earning a good living it will be okay, I'll just have a auction and fade into retirement.


Keep us posted when the auction is. I'm sure the Freddy G retirement auction will be chuck full of treasures


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Masssnowfighter said:


> Keep us posted when the auction is. I'm sure the Freddy G retirement auction will be chuck full of treasures


Same, I owe some friends in Syracuse a visit.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Same, I owe some friends in Syracuse a visit.


 You will be about 40 miles away in Syracuse.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Masssnowfighter said:


> Keep us posted when the auction is. I'm sure the Freddy G retirement auction will be chuck full of treasures


 I will do that. Sign collection will be going too.


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