# Best Set-up?



## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Wrong time of year to get a lot of responses, but I'm looking to get a jump on the best fit for my situation.

I currently use a John Deere 3046r (46 HP) utility tractor with a 7 foot rear blade to plow snow on a 1-mile well-crowned gravel road with huge borrow ditches. The rear blade doesn't have the height or the reach, so I'm forced to ride the ditch edge to try to get the windrows into the ditches. Still, over time, the windrows narrow the road and I'm forced to push them into the ditch with my loader bucket - position at an angle, push to the ditch, back up, repeat over and over. Steering is part of the problem. The back tires have LaClede V-bar tire chains, but chains on the front could tear up hydraulic hoses on sharp turns. I've tried filling my bucket with rock for added steering traction, but it's not much help. Bottom line, I've slid into and got stuck in those ditches more than I care to admit. I've not tipped yet, but man, it's been close.

Other things I do with the tractor - hauling/spreading piled materials, grapple hooking downed trees, rotary mowing, towing, rear blading, and landscaping. I'll use my rear mounted Lorenz snow blower only when necessary, because slowly driving backwards for hours and replacing shear pins is time consuming. So, other than the snow plowing/blowing issues, this tractor handles my tasks pretty nicely.

Here's what I'm debating for the optimum set-up. I won't say money is no object, but if there's real and significant improvement on snow removal, maybe I can rationalize the expense.

*Option 1)* Skid steer - I consider this overkill, and I'm not fond of how they tear up the ground. I do little digging, dozing, or loading trucks. My lighter duty tasks doesn't seem to warrant one, plus I'd have to replace my adequate PTO implements with more expensive, heavier duty ones.

*Option 2)* Current tractor - add a Boss HTX V-Plow attached to the frame (see 4x4Farmer's setup in photo below). It's 7-1/2 feet wide and lighter weight, under 500 lbs (made for 1/2 ton pickups). Boss's undercarriage for this tractor has to be removed (11 bolts) to mount the front-end loader, which I need every 2-3 weeks for horse manure and/or snow. Not convenient, but the plow does add some reach, it clears my tire path (as opposed to a rear blade), and the added front weight might improve steering. But, if I still go into the ditch, it could damage the lightweight plow and I wouldn't have my loader to inch my way out. The ability to chain front tires would be nice, but not sure how much it'd help those small tires.









*Options 3)* Upgrade tractor - trade for a 4 or 5 series tractor. Problem is, even my John Deere rep says the snow plowing improvement would be minimal. He say there's more weight but bigger tires, so minimal improvement in tractive effort. And, he says the blade could be wider but so is the tractor, resulting in little gain in reach. Maybe he's trying to sell me a skid steer.

*Option 4)* Bobcat ToolCat 5610 - never saw one, and can only judge by what I've read and watched on the web. It seems like a good fit between a compact tractor and a skid steer. I can keep my PTO implements, add a V-plow with more reach outside the wheel width, add a front-mounted snowblower if necessary, and rent hydraulic attachments for odd jobs. The extra weight (twice my tractor and more than my pickup) and chains all around should help traction and steering, maybe keep me out of the ditch more, or more able to crawl out if I get in. With more control, maybe I can plow faster and move snow further. The lower center of gravity means less ground clearance, but should also reduce the "pucker factor" of tipping a tractor.

Then again, my zeal for gadgetry and ignorance of the ToolCat may be clouding my logic. Any advice?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Just get a blower, inverted blower would be best for your neck....


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Mr.Markus said:


> Just get a blower, inverted blower would be best for your neck....


Certainly better than driving backward! Still a bit time consuming in a 12"+ snow, at least with my dinky PTO horsepower. I gotta go slow for 3-4 passes over a mile road, otherwise it just pushes the snow or breaks shear pins.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

Anything but a truck will still be slow.

If your main concern is getting into the ditch, your bes and cheapest bet would be to increase the rear blade width or add extensions to them do that the blade extends closer to the ditch. Basically offset the blade more to the ditch side. You’d want the extension to be flat or pitched backwards a bit to let the snow roll off and not build up.

A skidsteer with a hydraulic blower would eliminate the shear pin and driving backwards issue (warmer too with a cab); that’s what I did but that can be pricey. All depends on what you want to spend .


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

seville009 said:


> Anything but a truck will still be slow.
> 
> If your main concern is getting into the ditch, your bes and cheapest bet would be to increase the rear blade width or add extensions to them do that the blade extends closer to the ditch. Basically offset the blade more to the ditch side. You'd want the extension to be flat or pitched backwards a bit to let the snow roll off and not build up.
> 
> A skidsteer with a hydraulic blower would eliminate the shear pin and driving backwards issue (warmer too with a cab); that's what I did but that can be pricey. All depends on what you want to spend .


 I agree, you can make it a piece of cake if you spend enough money.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

https://www.rhinoag.com/products/landscape-construction/blades/heavy-duty-rear-blades/

Just get a blade that offsets to the side of the tractor.

Someone out there even makes ones that have dolley wheels that offset all the way outside the side of the tractor. They are made for cutting and grooming surface drainage ditches.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)




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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Your dealer is a moron. A 4 Series won't be much different than a 3, but a 5 is a huge difference over a 3.

An inverted is still your best option.

Toolcats get very expensive to operate over time. And they're kind of a Jack of all trades .


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Seville009 & Philbilly2: Thanks, I’m now researching offsetting rear blades. I considered them in the past, along with wider ones. But again, my JD dealer turned me away from them. I’m seeing a pattern here – my dealer is conservative on the tractor’s capabilities, maybe for liability reasons, or maybe he’s not a dealer for these products.

Mr. Oomkes: A moron? Well, let’s just say, at a minimum, my dealer seems “motivated differently” than owners!


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> View attachment 193063


What brand blade is that shown in your photo? Looks like the offset functions by pivoting and pinning the moldboard support beam left or right, yet it also looks like the moldboard can be slid left or right in its brace. Very simple with max adjustability.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Song Dogger said:


> Mr. Oomkes: A moron? Well, let's just say, at a minimum, my dealer seems "motivated differently" than owners!


Nope, if he's telling you a 5 Series is similar to a 3, he's a moron. And a liar.


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Nope, if he's telling you a 5 Series is similar to a 3, he's a moron. And a liar.


Thumbs Up I'll grill him on that.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mr Oomkes, that's his Dad. Lol


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Song Dogger said:


> Thumbs Up I'll grill him on that.


I have a 3046 and 3 5 Series. There isn't a comparison.

A 5 Series will outplow a truck by at least 50% with an 8'6" Blizzard up front and a 16' Ebling. I only have a broom and blower for my 3046, but I am quite sure it wouldn't match the abilities of a truck with a 8'2" Boss V.

Then you get into hydro vs gear and that plays in even more. If he truly believes that, he has no bizness selling tractors.


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I have a 3046 and 3 5 Series. There isn't a comparison.
> 
> A 5 Series will outplow a truck by at least 50% with an 8'6" Blizzard up front and a 16' Ebling. I only have a broom and blower for my 3046, but I am quite sure it wouldn't match the abilities of a truck with a 8'2" Boss V.
> 
> Then you get into hydro vs gear and that plays in even more. If he truly believes that, he has no bizness selling tractors.


Great info on the 3046 abilities...


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Song Dogger said:


> Great info on the 3046 abilities...





Mark Oomkes said:


> I have a 3046 and 3 5 Series. There isn't a comparison.
> 
> A 5 Series will outplow a truck by at least 50% with an 8'6" Blizzard up front and a 16' Ebling. I only have a broom and blower for my 3046, but I am quite sure it wouldn't match the abilities of a truck with a 8'2" Boss V.
> 
> Then you get into hydro vs gear and that plays in even more. If he truly believes that, he has no bizness selling tractors.


My gravel road is all downhill from my shop, mostly a slight grade with two 100 yard stretches of steeper stuff. Lots of S turns. If I put a Boss V-plow on a truck and plowed only downhill (deadhead back to the top), leaving a skiff of snow to avoid disturbing the gravel (shoes or gravel guards) - think I need chains on the truck?

Quite a scenario to answer, lots of ifs - but the only reason I haven't put a plow on my truck is I don't want to leave chains on it. I've considered a Boss HTX on my 1/2 ton (7'6") because it's interchangeable with the 3046r, or a wider full size plow on my wife's 1 ton. Thaaaat's right, she has the bigger truck...


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

.[/QUOTE]


Mark Oomkes said:


> I have a 3046 and 3 5 Series. There isn't a comparison.
> 
> A 5 Series will outplow a truck by at least 50% with an 8'6" Blizzard up front and a 16' Ebling. I only have a broom and blower for my 3046, but I am quite sure it wouldn't match the abilities of a truck with a 8'2" Boss V.
> 
> Then you get into hydro vs gear and that plays in even more. If he truly believes that, he has no bizness selling tractors.


So should I buy a used machine pre emissions or new?

Yes or no?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> .


So should I buy a used machine pre emissions or new?

Yes or no?[/QUOTE]

Yes

Or

No


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

“think I need chains on the truck?”

All depends on how good your tires are, if the snow is light or heavy, if the road is frozen or muddy, if you have good weight in the bed, etc. Always good to have them with you in the truck at least. I carry emergency strap on chains in the truck; you wouldn’t use them in place of regular chains, but they work great if you get stuck


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Song Dogger said:


> Thumbs Up I'll grill him on that.


 I know little to nothing about ag tractors, I do know I grew up In a New and used franchise. My first remembrance was Rambler than AMC jeep Renault for a little while. It is now Chrysler, Dodge and jeep.

Make a long story short as a kid I knew more about the product as the sales professionals. Actually to today they don't even teach you to sell, They want you to get them in your cubicle and then they put a closer or sales manager on you to make a deal. They know the #'s and the product if your ready to buy there selling it.

I'm pretty sure Mr Oomkes lol philbilly, seville and whoever else is responding know what there talking about. Not selling them real life experience from the job to farm whatever. Good Luck


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Song Dogger said:


> My gravel road is all downhill from my shop, mostly a slight grade with two 100 yard stretches of steeper stuff. Lots of S turns. If I put a Boss V-plow on a truck and plowed only downhill (deadhead back to the top), leaving a skiff of snow to avoid disturbing the gravel (shoes or gravel guards) - think I need chains on the truck?
> 
> Quite a scenario to answer, lots of ifs - but the only reason I haven't put a plow on my truck is I don't want to leave chains on it. I've considered a Boss HTX on my 1/2 ton (7'6") because it's interchangeable with the 3046r, or a wider full size plow on my wife's 1 ton. Thaaaat's right, she has the bigger truck...


How much snow do you get and how long is your season? Where (in general) are you located?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

[QUOTE="Mark Oomkes, post: 2370149, member: Where (in general) are you located?[/QUOTE] Meatchicken, USA


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> How much snow do you get and how long is your season? Where (in general) are you located?


I live in northeast Wyoming in the Black Hills, small town of Beulah. Below is a screenshot of annual snow stats in nearby Sundance WY.









Those stats seem to misrepresent extremes. We have a couple storms annually in the 10-12" range, and late or early storms every few years exceeding 18". Oct 2013 was over 50", but once in a lifetime (I hope).


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but if your current tractor works well for everything but snow, this may wind up going for less than the other options you were considering.

https://www.auctionsinternational.com/auction/17580/item/town-of-winfield-ny-17580-106907


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but if your current tractor works well for everything but snow, this may wind up going for less than the other options you were considering.
> 
> https://www.auctionsinternational.com/auction/17580/item/town-of-winfield-ny-17580-106907


That's actually a pretty nice looking truck.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Song Dogger said:


> I live in northeast Wyoming in the Black Hills, small town of Beulah. Below is a screenshot of annual snow stats in nearby Sundance WY.
> 
> View attachment 193070
> 
> Those stats seem to misrepresent extremes. We have a couple storms annually in the 10-12" range, and late or early storms every few years exceeding 18". Oct 2013 was over 50", but once in a lifetime (I hope).


That's some gorgeous country you live in. I'm jealous...please post pics.

I completely understand your situation, you guys can get some major dumpings.

So in all reality though, while it would suck to do a mile of driveway with a 3046 and inverted, it's not a frequent occurrence that it would be a large amount.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but if your current tractor works well for everything but snow, this may wind up going for less than the other options you were considering.
> 
> https://www.auctionsinternational.com/auction/17580/item/town-of-winfield-ny-17580-106907


 Somebody at the Minci took very good care of the truck, I agree will probably be cheaper than the other options. Many years of service left in that one. Snow windrows would be no problem to push back with that wing.

As nice as it is he could always get his money back out of it.


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## absolutely (Dec 9, 2010)

Why not put a front blower on it. Would help with weight for turning when you're using the back blade. Then you can blow back the windrows. Deeper snow use the front blower. Obviously jumping up to 4066 would speed things along. My 2 cents.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Song Dogger said:


> What brand blade is that shown in your photo? Looks like the offset functions by pivoting and pinning the moldboard support beam left or right, yet it also looks like the moldboard can be slid left or right in its brace. Very simple with max adjustability.


That is a file photo.

Here is one that I found on a quick search

https://www.everythingattachments.c...Blade-for-Compact-Tractors-p/eta-value-sb.htm


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but if your current tractor works well for everything but snow, this may wind up going for less than the other options you were considering.
> 
> https://www.auctionsinternational.com/auction/17580/item/town-of-winfield-ny-17580-106907


Dang. Now I need a skid steer to clear and level a parking lot...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Song Dogger said:


> Dang. Now I need a skid steer to clear and level a parking lot...


 I guess if you want to live like a King in Gods country there is a price to pay. Not that I would not I would love to be secluded in beautiful country where you live. Being in the construction business it would be no problem for me to clear that roadway because I own the equipment needed.

Something like Dennis posted would solve your issue. For probably under $6K


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Song Dogger said:


> Dang. Now I need a skid steer to clear and level a parking lot...


Nice one posted for sale in the Craigslist Thread...

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/craigslist-finds.131993/page-445#post-2370312


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Spent a couple days in that area and stopped by Devil's Tower on the way to Cody...kids absolutely loved the Badlands and Custer SP.

Very cool area.


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That's some gorgeous country you live in. I'm jealous...please post pics.
> 
> I completely understand your situation, you guys can get some major dumpings.
> 
> So in all reality though, while it would suck to do a mile of driveway with a 3046 and inverted, it's not a frequent occurrence that it would be a large amount.


That's a fact, big snows are infrequent. I can clear most snows from around the shop, barn, house, and access roads in 3-4 hours. What sticks in my mind are the few times late in the season that I spend over 10 hours in near zero temps to widen the road - without a cab. Actually, the worst part is the anxiety days beforehand as the big storms approach. I use to look forward to it. I'm hoping new/better equipment will make that fun again...

Some thumbnails of my homestead below, including a wild visitor at our front door:


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

absolutely said:


> Why not put a front blower on it. Would help with weight for turning when you're using the back blade. Then you can blow back the windrows. Deeper snow use the front blower. Obviously jumping up to 4066 would speed things along. My 2 cents.


Mounted to the frame or loader? What powers it? A hydraulic pack on the 3 pt hitch? I do have a rear and mid PTO...


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> That is a file photo.
> 
> Here is one that I found on a quick search
> 
> https://www.everythingattachments.c...Blade-for-Compact-Tractors-p/eta-value-sb.htm


Thanks, I'll add that one to my research. I also found 8 footers at King Cutter and Land Pride. Looks like Land Pride has the option for hydraulic angling, too.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Song Dogger said:


> That's a fact, big snows are infrequent. I can clear most snows from around the shop, barn, house, and access roads in 3-4 hours. What sticks in my mind are the few times late in the season that I spend over 10 hours in near zero temps to widen the road - without a cab. Actually, the worst part is the anxiety days beforehand as the big storms approach. I use to look forward to it. I'm hoping new/better equipment will make that fun again...
> 
> Some thumbnails of my homestead below, including a wild visitor at our front door:
> 
> ...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Song Dogger said:


> Mounted to the frame or loader? What powers it? A hydraulic pack on the 3 pt hitch? I do have a rear and mid PTO...


Either or...









https://www.deere.com/en/attachment...cessories/snow-removal-equipment/sb21-series/









http://www.muttonpower.com/p-10481-john-deere-59-front-snowblower.aspx


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> View attachment 193113


Even better is the video, wish I could post it here. You'd see a laser site bouncing around on it's chest, then hear a shot when he claws at the window. At that point, my wife drops the camera, she didn't know I was lurking outside with a 357. All legal, I called Game & Fish afterwards...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Song Dogger said:


> Even better is the video, wish I could post it here. You'd see a laser site bouncing around on it's chest, then hear a shot when he claws at the window. At that point, my wife drops the camera, she didn't know I was lurking outside with a 357. All legal, I called Game & Fish afterwards...


I see no reason you cant... Thumbs Up


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> I see no reason you cant... Thumbs Up


Only one reason - I don't know how. When you upload a file, MOV files aren't an option. I'm not much for YouTube and such, so no links to provide...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Song Dogger said:


> That's a fact, big snows are infrequent. I can clear most snows from around the shop, barn, house, and access roads in 3-4 hours. What sticks in my mind are the few times late in the season that I spend over 10 hours in near zero temps to widen the road - without a cab. Actually, the worst part is the anxiety days beforehand as the big storms approach. I use to look forward to it. I'm hoping new/better equipment will make that fun again...
> 
> Some thumbnails of my homestead below, including a wild visitor at our front door:
> 
> ...


Nice puddy tat...

Now I'm even more jealous. No people and God's country.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Song Dogger said:


> Only one reason - I don't know how. When you upload a file, MOV files aren't an option. I'm not much for YouTube and such, so no links to provide...


Dang it...


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## Brndnstffrd (Mar 8, 2013)

You see what you really need is a Walter


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## Song Dogger (Apr 19, 2019)

Brndnstffrd said:


> You see what you really need is a Walter


I was about to correct you and say "Walther", as in Walther firearms for the lion. Then, I looked up "Walter Plows". Wow.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Brndnstffrd said:


> You see what you really need is a Walter


Just to be clear, this is an inside joke. A banned member loved them and their "100% traction." They are an interesting concept, but obsolete. They never updated. (that's why Walter, FWD, etc. are gone and Oshkosh is still around). They are near impossible to get parts for.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Aerospace Eng said:


> They are near impossible to get parts for.


Only if you didn't have the foresight to stock pile 20 or 30 junk ones in your backyard


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

cwren2472 said:


> Only if you didn't have the foresight to stock pile 20 or 30 junk ones in your backyard


And name them...


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## Gasman 1075 (May 8, 2019)

I am new to this website but have been plowing my driveway and the neighbors here in upstate NY for 30+ years. We have a gravel driveway 1000+/- feet long not steep but not flat and average 100" of snow. First years plowed with a plow truck and cleaned up the gravel off the grass in the spring but I was warm. Then used tractor with FEL and back scraper blade. Wasn't warm but not as messy. I just bought a new tractor with 59" front mount snow blower. Still not warm but very little clean up. Now I am considering adding a 60" box blade to the back. Added weight and figure I can use it to back drag what little i miss with the snow blower. Thoughts or opinions welcome. thanks in advance


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