# Brief discussion with an MTO officer.



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Went to pick up a coffee at the local Tims yesterday with one of our pickups with plow and salter mounted. Literally around the corner from my yard. Parking lot had an MTO dude and a couple OPP cruisers parked in it-kinda typical I guess. :laughing:

I park, go in to get my coffees, come out and the MTO guy is standing by my truck and tells me he's going to save me a couple of hundred bucks. 

He already ran my plates and tells me to increase my liscencing to acoomodate the salter and the plow with a load-which I was going to do next week anyways as my stickers expire this month. And also tells me that we have to relocate our front plates to the plow mount so they are visible at all times-which we dont do because we dont always leave plows hooked up all winter and it could be a PITA. 

We already relocate our back plates to the top of the salter, which he said was good.

He also said to make sure our pre-trip inspections are filled out, and the truck has a copy of CVOR in it. I showed him all of that, and was impressed with the folder we have in the truck with all the truck and trailer(s) docs.

Most of his suggestions is already common practice for us except for the front plate issue-so its no biggie for us really. 

He did go onto to say they will specifically be targeting plow/salt trucks this winter-so dont be suprised if you get randomly stopped by MTO. 

Just thought I'd give you guys a heads up.


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Did you yell at him for parking in the handicap spot?


----------



## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

A CVOR is needed for pick ups? MTO is as confusing as the labor board. You call one person and they say one thing you call 20 mins later and its total opposite.


----------



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Any commercial vehicles is my understanding. 

And...theoretically, we have to pull into the chicken coups too when the lights are flashing, even with a pickup truck.


----------



## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

I just about had a run in with one the other day... he was filling his truck with gas, so I was lucky I got out before he did. He was giving my dump trailer a real hard stare. We are just finalizing our CVOR-A stuff. The guys are not looking forward to the log books.


----------



## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

JohnnyRoyale;867844 said:


> Any commercial vehicles is my understanding.
> 
> And...theoretically, we have to pull into the chicken coups too when the lights are flashing, even with a pickup truck.


I thought that was only GM's, like the commercial on T.V.? :laughing:



Pristine PM ltd;867845 said:


> I just about had a run in with one the other day... he was filling his truck with gas, so I was lucky I got out before he did. He was giving my dump trailer a real hard stare. We are just finalizing our CVOR-A stuff. The guys are not looking forward to the log books.


Thats the one that doesn't have brakes and lights?


----------



## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Did you ask about the yellow or blue?? Around here everyone is going yellow to frevent any hastles and needless tickets. MTO has been all over us down here regarding plates for some time, now I have welded some washers on the screws for the plated. This way you need no wrench to move the plates. Is the cut off point for the daily log book still 4500kg ??? 

Well guess it is always good to know that the MTO guys will be asking for there anual fee again this winter.


----------



## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Blue is a no no on the road.. Use it on your properties all you want. Go bombing down the road and you are asking for it. 

Even the citys trucks cannot run there blue if they are not salting the road they are on. I doubt the cops will enforce that but that's what my emergency light dealer told me.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I moved all my plates to the grill. They are zip tied there. Mine is mounted on the lights for the plow but it is a Blizzard and they stay on. Along with the log book you are supposed to have a copy of Schedule A in the truck. All my stickers are high. 2 are at 11K kg. I have 1 salt truck that goes out overloaded and I am working hard to move that salte to my new truck and buy a smaller salter to prevent the over load.


----------



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

DAFFMOBILEWASH;867863 said:


> Did you ask about the yellow or blue?? .


Truck had both amber and blue. He never mentioned anything.

The whole conversation kind of felt like an infomercial. 
He wasnt about to fine me for anything. 
Maybe his boyfriend gave him a little action earlier in the day. HAHA:laughing:


----------



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

cet;868315 said:


> I moved all my plates to the grill. They are zip tied there. Mine is mounted on the lights for the plow but it is a Blizzard and they stay on. Along with the log book you are supposed to have a copy of Schedule A in the truck. All my stickers are high. 2 are at 11K kg. I have 1 salt truck that goes out overloaded and I am working hard to move that salte to my new truck and buy a smaller salter to prevent the over load.


Schedule A?

We fill out pre-trip inspection books, not the hours of service one.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I fill out that same book. Schedule A has a list of things you are supposed to check for, like the book has. I was given this from Aldershot landscaping. They told me it has to be in the truck. Also I know a guy who went to the MTO last week and he was given the same thing. I think it is on their website.


----------



## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

Yeah we moved plates up front long ago, a trailer plate bracket from napa fits nicely under a fisher mm1 light, just have to bend it down to face the right away. mm2 we just drill a couple holes on under the light, lots of room there.
And the extra 2 mins it takes to move the plow is no big deal. most out plows stay on, other then the drive around trucks.

Don't forget when you move your back plates for salter or any other reason, you need a light with that. Seen many move the plate and not have a light get a ticket for it.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/regulations/daily/page3.shtml

Schedule 1 not A


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I have a laminated copy in the truck. You have to be able to refer to it. My log books are 2007 and now I hear these are outdated already.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I see alot of trucks with the plate moved to underneath the DS headlight. Would make me cry mounting a plate there. I think I will play just play the poor farmer routine, seems to work most times.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I think when they pull you over here you are getting a ticket. You might get the warning if stopped on one of the blitzes. 2 years ago a buddy got 2 tickets.1 for the blue light and the second for not having his shovel tied in. Got off the other 2, front and rear plates blocked.


----------



## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

Grassman09;867834 said:


> A CVOR is needed for pick ups? MTO is as confusing as the labor board. You call one person and they say one thing you call 20 mins later and its total opposite.


You don't need a CVOR for most pick up trucks as long as you are under 4500KG. But if you are pulling a trailer or mounting a salter or plow that will change the weight of the vehicle.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/guideline/cvor.shtml


----------



## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

Blue flashing light questions answered http://www.swscanada.com/pages/BlueLightsOntario.html


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;868450 said:


> I see alot of trucks with the plate moved to underneath the DS headlight. Would make me cry mounting a plate there. I think I will play just play the poor farmer routine, seems to work most times.


You must be a really good actor.


----------



## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

How do you guys up north the border do it? That's a heck of a lot of regulations I just read through.


----------



## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

It is encourging to see that Canada is keeping up with us as far as DOT regulations. Difference is your inspectors go after everybody while our guys seem to work over the mid size firms. They leave the UPS and Roadway guys alone and try not to bother with pickups. I have learned not to argue with the enforcer about what the law says, just smile. Once got written up for having a loose fire extinshuer. Been down the road of loose tools, different color lights, placard placement, dot number locations, logbook markings, and I just don't like you. Seems like the catch all the last couple of years is the width of plows being transported. I like to sit in the warm cab while they get out their tape measure, and after they are done it isn't beneath me to point out to them that the top of the plow is wider than the bottom, so they have to go back and remeasure. Oh, I forgot, I'm sorry my overwidth permit is in the glove box after all.


----------



## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

JD Dave;868450 said:


> I see alot of trucks with the plate moved to underneath the DS headlight. Would make me cry mounting a plate there. I think I will play just play the poor farmer routine, seems to work most times.


Are you talking under the trucks ds, or plow's? 
I don't see whats wrong with them under a plow light.


----------



## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

M&M;869053 said:


> How do you guys up north the border do it? That's a heck of a lot of regulations I just read through.


you should try being south of the border (the NH border) The cost of every thing just went up its now $20/1000lbs of weight. The amount of BS(on the books) down here is amazing, the only good thing is most of it is not enforced if your under 10K (4545KG)


----------



## schuitb (Nov 19, 2005)

*Plate relocate*

Ya, move the plates so the 407 camera's can send you the bill... I'm sure there are alot of guy's running on the 407 with no transponder and the plates blocked by the salter and the plow... The only reason is money. Always is and alway will be. Most of the cars on the road during winter have dirty and snow covered plated and do they bother cleaning them??? Pick on them!


----------



## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

Bajak;868480 said:


> You don't need a CVOR for most pick up trucks as long as you are under 4500KG. But if you are pulling a trailer or mounting a salter or plow that will change the weight of the vehicle.
> 
> http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/guideline/cvor.shtml


Correct! Not even commercial vehical needs a CVOR. If your registered gross weight is under 4500 then no need for CVOR.


----------



## ChawpShop (Jul 19, 2009)

I just have one quick question here. When you get the CVOR, it is a certificate? That applies to more than one truck. Does the CVOR include the yellow sticker or is that extra. I have commercial insurance and everything on my 2 trucks but they're not registered as commercial. Just wanting to sort this out sooner than later.

Both are f250s and GVWR at 4489kg , with plow and full salter we're way over. Thanks!


----------



## Mr Bigblock (Dec 9, 2008)

ChawpShop;869786 said:


> I just have one quick question here. When you get the CVOR, it is a certificate? That applies to more than one truck. Does the CVOR include the yellow sticker or is that extra. I have commercial insurance and everything on my 2 trucks but they're not registered as commercial. Just wanting to sort this out sooner than later.
> 
> Both are f250s and GVWR at 4489kg , with plow and full salter we're way over. Thanks![/QUOTe
> 
> If your company has any vehicle over 4500 kg you must get i CVOR. This CVOR covers all of the vehicle's in your company, its a way for them to track your companies track history with infractions and road side inspections. Get a few to many points against you or one of your guys get into a bad wreck like my guy did and they will come knocking to your door and do an audit, and believe me that's no fun. As far as they yellow sticker that's no included with your CVOR, that's an annual inspection you must get and oh ya keep a copy of that in the vehicle too.


----------



## Mr Bigblock (Dec 9, 2008)

I have two GMC 3500's single rear wheels with 8 foot arctics and V-MAX 8500's. With them overflowing with salt he truck topped up with fuel and a 250 pound dude next to me in the passenger seat the truck comes in at 4400 kg's. So it does not require a CVOR or log. As far as the rest your still going to get it for anything else they can find like a grain of salt on the bumper or a light out. I have seen them out in storms in the Hamilton area grabbing plows just have to keep your eyes open and get a good network with other plow guys.


----------



## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

Never get into a pxssing contest with a MTO or police officer. Yes Sir No Sir 3Bags full Sir. Might not help all the time but theres a good chance you get enuf time to make the mentioned changes. Just make sure the next time they nab you that you got done what they pointed out.


----------



## briggsguy17 (Nov 20, 2009)

I am going to play the devil's advocate :realmad: Imagine if you will a world with no DOT or MTO (I assume that they are the equivalent of DOT). Imagine the kind of junk that would be on the road. These regulations also ensure that the professional, legitimate businesses stay in business and don't have to compete with as many "fly by night" operators. There are always exceptions but without these guys can you imagine some of the outfits you would have to try to compete with?


----------



## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

The problem with MTO is that there are too many regulations. I am all for safe vehicles, but here are a few regulations that just piss me off.

My buddy just got a ticket in Richmond Hill for not having mudflaps on his 2000 dually. It didn't come with them... he has never heard it was an issue, but apparently he should have bought them to avoid this $110 ticket.

We were told that the wiper blades that come on Fords are illegal in the winter. They are legal in the summer, but for some reason no good in the winter.

We have had a small crack in the window filled. It is perfectly safe, it will not blow in, but it still looks like a crack, we were told to get a new window or we will get a ticket if we are ever pulled over again. 

I feel like they have way to much power and it is my fear that they will screw us over in the winter and we will lose a contract because a truck was pulled over for many hours. They will make you get a tow if there is something they deem slightly unsafe with your vehicle. What they deem as unsafe is sometimes up for discussion, this is where I have the most issues with them. It needs to be more black and white.


----------



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Didnt know you needed mudflaps by law?!

Last week we had to get a truck towed, and the tow truck driver pulled into the same gas station as my original experience to buy smokes.

MTO dude checked the tow trucks tires, and because they were D rated and not E rated, he scaled the tow trucks rear axle and made him drop the truck, and sent him off without the tow. 

He then waited around and wouldnt let any other 1 ton dualy towtruck hook up the pickup. We had to get a flatbed in to tow it to the mechanic. 

Almost forgot-he was 45kgs over the tire rating.


----------



## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

They like the games it seems. Yeah, the mudflap thing for dually's was new to me. The wiper one made me laugh a little... as long as it isn't ever an issue.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Bruce'sEx;869325 said:


> Are you talking under the trucks ds, or plow's?
> I don't see whats wrong with them under a plow light.


There is nothing wrong with that but you'll need to change plates everytime you take your blade off.


JohnnyRoyale;892265 said:


> Didnt know you needed mudflaps by law?!
> 
> Last week we had to get a truck towed, and the tow truck driver pulled into the same gas station as my original experience to buy smokes.
> 
> ...


I thought you said your Fords never broke down.  Why didn't your use you new hook lift?


----------



## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

haha, they all need a tow at some point! Don't want to overuse them, make use of the CAA.


----------



## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

JohnnyRoyale;892265 said:


> Didnt know you needed mudflaps by law?!
> .


I knew I heard of this a few years back and finally found it. Search Mudguard not mud flap It sounds like they are enforcing everything now.

Ontario - Highway Traffic Act R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER H.8
Mudguards
(3) Every motor vehicle and every trailer shall be equipped with mudguards or fenders or other device adequate to reduce effectively the wheel spray or splash of water from the roadway to the rear thereof, unless adequate protection is afforded by the body of the motor vehicle or trailer or by a trailer drawn by the motor vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 66 (3).
Exception
(4) Subsection (3) does not apply to motor vehicles or trailers in an unfinished condition while proceeding to a works for completion. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 66 (4).


----------



## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

Believe it or not it's illegal in Ohio to have your license plates zipped tied on ! 
It has to be bolted on and BOTH lights have to be working
My truck got rear ended. As the officer was getting the vin he noticed the front plate was zip tied on. He told me I could get a ticket for that and BOTH rear lights on the plate must light.


----------



## Alpha Property (Jul 25, 2008)

so you guys are prob gunna yell at me, but as you all know its like pullin teeth to get a straight answer about any of these silly regs. So i have a 2000 Z71 1500 chev ext cab short box, its my personal vehicle and businss vehicle. The truck does not have a plow or salter on it. I will be towing my 14ft tandem landscaping trailer with a ATV and plow and a 2 stage snowblower. I have personal plates on it, no yellow sticker, but i have insurance on the truck, i have business use insurance on the truck, i have a rider to be able to pull my trailer with "tools and/or equipment" in it for business use, and the trailer is insured, but doesn't have a yellow sticker. The truck and trailer are both registered to me, not my business.
Now, ive been going like this for almost 2 years now without any problems, and i was even pulled over by a OPP for not having my stander strapped down to the trailer and he ran the plates and insurance and didn't say anything.... so should i still be ok to go like this until i upgrade to a heavyer truck?


----------



## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

I don't know the answer, but I wouldn't take getting pulled over by the OPP as a clearance. It all depends on who pulls you over, you might be fine for 5 years. You might get pulled over tomorrow and told to park it until you have a CVOR, that is the fun of MTO.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

briggsguy17;891986 said:


> I am going to play the devil's advocate :realmad: Imagine if you will a world with no DOT or MTO (I assume that they are the equivalent of DOT). Imagine the kind of junk that would be on the road. These regulations also ensure that the professional, legitimate businesses stay in business and don't have to compete with as many "fly by night" operators. There are always exceptions but without these guys can you imagine some of the outfits you would have to try to compete with?


You ARE kidding right?

Are you telling me you don't have junk haulers with bumpers dragging the pavement and never get pulled over (because they don't have the money to pay the fines)?

Are you telling me that everyone now is strapping their mowers\equipment down per regulations? There are NO fly-by-nighters skirting all these laws and enforcement?

I have no problem with it, EXCEPT when they turn it into revenue generation.

One more EXCEPTION, when the laws are so vague that you can get 4 interpretations out of 2 officers depending on how good or bad of a day they are having.


----------



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

JD Dave;892303 said:


> I thought you said your Fords never broke down.  Why didn't your use you new hook lift?


Did I say it was a FORD?

It was .

Hooklifts all had salters on them and they were in the city-plus we have CAA (you never know). And flatbed is only 14 ft long (dont think a truck would fit it quite right).


----------



## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

Alpha Property;892832 said:


> so you guys are prob gunna yell at me, but as you all know its like pullin teeth to get a straight answer about any of these silly regs. So i have a 2000 Z71 1500 chev ext cab short box, its my personal vehicle and businss vehicle. The truck does not have a plow or salter on it. I will be towing my 14ft tandem landscaping trailer with a ATV and plow and a 2 stage snowblower. I have personal plates on it, no yellow sticker, but i have insurance on the truck, i have business use insurance on the truck, i have a rider to be able to pull my trailer with "tools and/or equipment" in it for business use, and the trailer is insured, but doesn't have a yellow sticker. The truck and trailer are both registered to me, not my business.
> Now, ive been going like this for almost 2 years now without any problems, and i was even pulled over by a OPP for not having my stander strapped down to the trailer and he ran the plates and insurance and didn't say anything.... so should i still be ok to go like this until i upgrade to a heavyer truck?


Here's your straight answer. :laughing:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/regulations/trailers.shtml

Does any one know if that extra bag of mulch will put them over????

You pretty much have to load up as much weight on your truck and trailer that you think you will ever carry (tools, fuel, big Bubba and Barney, coffee for the crew, cup holders full of change, maybe a bag of milk in case the wife asks, have a full bladder and be constipated for 3 days, etc,...) then take all that to the scales and have it weighed. Don't forget the effect of rain or snow, atmospheric pressure and relative humidity. I would suggest doing it during a torrential downpour. Then and only then will you know for sure what you should register the RGW for and whether or not you require a CVOR.

This still does not mean that (yes sir!, no sir!) Mr. MTO officer, sir. cannot have the opinion that you are over weight and require you to weigh in.

People wonder why I'm in no particular hurry to get a bigger truck.


----------



## Alpha Property (Jul 25, 2008)

Bajak;893231 said:


> Here's your straight answer. :laughing:
> 
> http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/regulations/trailers.shtml
> 
> ...


wow, thats wild...


----------



## bike5200 (Sep 4, 2007)

Alpha Property;892832 said:


> so you guys are prob gunna yell at me, but as you all know its like pullin teeth to get a straight answer about any of these silly regs. So i have a 2000 Z71 1500 chev ext cab short box, its my personal vehicle and businss vehicle. The truck does not have a plow or salter on it. I will be towing my 14ft tandem landscaping trailer with a ATV and plow and a 2 stage snowblower. I have personal plates on it, no yellow sticker, but i have insurance on the truck, i have business use insurance on the truck, i have a rider to be able to pull my trailer with "tools and/or equipment" in it for business use, and the trailer is insured, but doesn't have a yellow sticker. The truck and trailer are both registered to me, not my business.
> Now, ive been going like this for almost 2 years now without any problems, and i was even pulled over by a OPP for not having my stander strapped down to the trailer and he ran the plates and insurance and didn't say anything.... so should i still be ok to go like this until i upgrade to a heavyer truck?


I tell you what the KY DOT officer said, If you are using that truck to make money you need a DOT number, they do not care how it is registered. Making money is a business in there eyes. After the ticket for no DOT number, no medical card, they might look at the weight


----------



## Mr Bigblock (Dec 9, 2008)

At the end of the day it works like this MTO=payuppayup


----------

