# new ford is LEMON



## pats plowing (Nov 27, 2001)

Well as you all know i just bought a new 03 f350 supercab xlt wit the 6.0l psd. It is 6 weeks old as of today with 2200 miles. It was declared a lemon yesterday since it went back for the third attempt to fix my rough idle problem. Ford is aware of the concern but has no fix for it. I called there hotline and demanded ford to buy back the truck and im getting all types of bs. So ill be getting a lawyer soon.
Heres the list of problems ive had:
Day 3 egr valve failed-was towed thanks for fords roadside assistance located in ohio it took a short 3 hrs to get a towtruck. 
Day 4 notice glass on drivers side is scratched. Its replaced.
Dealer starts truck it smokes all over, no fix to this yet. I get the engine to stick at 1000-1500 rpm with my foot on the brake, the mileage highway is 14 unloaded.
New problems, when changing from R to D there is a metal grinding noise which my dealer dismissed
There is a whistle caused by a defective passenger mirror yet to be replaced. My doors do not shut tight and rattle, the paint on the hood is bubling up which dealer said was bird droppings. He basically insulted all my intelligence. The tailgate fell off the other day and he said i took it out, yet there is a part missing. there is no 4*4 low. 
So now i need to get some new vehicle and get some $$ back. What a pain in the ars thanks ford.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Sorry to hear about your troubles.Nobody deserves that when dropping that kinda $$$ on a new truck.They should buy it back,and make it right.

I was at a Ford dealer I used to work at,and couldn't believe all the 6.0L trucks that were sitting on the lot with problems waiting for a fix.Ford screwed up big time on this one.It will probably be a killer motor when it's corrected,but until then,STAY AWAY.

Boy,am I glad I don't work for Ford nowadays.

Have you looked into trying to find one with a loeftover 7.3L ? or are you going to look into a different truck altogether ?


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## snowjoker (Feb 6, 2003)

Sorry to hear about all of your misfortune Pats Plowing. I hope you come out well after the lawyer gets involved. Maybe you will hit a chevy dealer on your way home after court ; keep us informed on what you do


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

Sorry to hear about all the problems you are having with the new Ford. Get rid of it and start over fresh if at all possible. If I were you, Id switch brands altogether if you could. Try a Chevy or a Dodge next. I am in the repair business and I can honestly say, Fords come in more than any other brand for idle or stalling problems and check engine lights. My Chevy is a 1992 and the check engine light has never shown its face. Oh man, here I go again comparing Chevy and Ford. Sorry Ford guys, didnt mean to start anything.  Good luck, hope you can get out of it and into something better built. Mike


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## Nozzleman (Feb 6, 2003)

Pat's Plowing, I am sorry to hear about all the trouble you are having. If it's any consolation at least your not alone, Ton's of guy's are having numerous problems with the 6.0 Power Stroke. 

As others have stated if Ford takes your truck back then I would look at different brand.

I personally have a '03 Dodge Cummins and aside from a defective front shock replaced under warrenty the truck has been trouble free for 5,000 miles. 

Good luck.


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## THREE W (Jan 18, 2002)

Does anyone know why Ford decided to go away from the 7.3,
that is a tested good engine so why change????

One would think if they where going to go with a new engine
they would put some in the year before and run them as test
engines to get the bugs out, rather than taking the chance
of someone getting smoked!!


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I think the biggest reason for change is to meet the ever tightening emission and fuel economy laws.It's also a HP race,as every consumer wants the best.

The 7.3L engine was a good motor,it was just getting a little dated,and needed a redesign.

You would think they could build them a little better,and test them a bit more.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2003)

The 6.0 was tested in International trim(365) for well over a year before being introduced in the Ford But I believe there is still going to be some teething for a year or two in the Ford trim 

Pat,

As for your other problems, sounds like your truck was built on a Fri. or a Mon.:angry: Not good days on the assembly lines!!

All I can say is my SD is the absolute best truck I've ever owned!! I've had them all too, Chevy's, Dodge's, Toyota's ect. With any brand, sometimes you get a good one, sometimes a bad one.

My 2000 7.3 has 100k mi. on it, puts over 400 hp to the ground and I drive it like I stole it! Tow 10k lbs almost daily, plow, drag race and just basically abuse it. It is still as tight as it was the day I drove it off the lot and if you didn't look inside the bed, you would think it was brand new!

I would ask your dealer to find you an 03 7.3 if they can!!

Good luck,

Greg


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## gordyo (Feb 12, 2002)

Pat,

It isn't just your truck and Fords in particular. I was driving through Maine yesterday, saw a Chevy on the side of the road and thought of this post. I was around the Sebago Lake area on rt. 302 and saw a brand new 2500 series Chevy Pickup 4x4 on the side of the road that someone was obviosly trying to get attention with. It had writting all over it saying, This truck is a Lemon, I want my money back, yada yada yada. If I wasn't in heavy traffic I would have pulled over and taken a picture of it. Every manufacturer has problems at one time or another. I am parial to Fords but I did own a Chevy pickup and it was a great truck. As a matter of fact, I sold it to the school with 189,000 miles on it and it now has over 200,000 and I still use it everyday as my work vehicle. I hope Ford does the right thing for you!!


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

Gordyo, are you _sure_ it was a Chevy pick up truck you saw stuck on the side of the road with such god awful things written on it?? I dont know, but that is really hard for me to believe.  Just pullin your leg a little!  It would have been funny though to see the picture, hahaha. Mike


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Funny there was a new chevy running around here last yr with a similar treatment. He had lemon stickers all over it,and decals saying this truck is a lemon,do not buy Gm trucks...... See owner for details.


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

Lemon is about the only adjective my friend used for his Duramax Chevy that I can print!!


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Pelican _
> *Lemon is about the only adjective my friend used for his Duramax Chevy that I can print!! *


That's a good one:bluebounc :redbounce 

Greg


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

I think that they are overpriced pieces of s**T .I know this guy who had a dodge and said that he would never get another .I asked him why he said listen to this and he rocked the truck side to side and it was creaking and making all kinds of noise.So what does he do goes out and buys another one but with the cummings in it.So I guess the moral of the story is what ever truck your driving at the time it acts up and stays acting up is your lemon UNTIL you get another that works fine.
Don't get me wrong I believe that he is having problems with his truck seams all the GM products we get have something wrong too and I do have a ford truck too so I can talk about both that have had things go bad with them but nothing like Pats problems. I'm just sorry to hear it Hope every thing will go a little smoother for you .


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## snow (Jan 5, 2001)

Pat-

What do you plan on doing? Getting a 7.3L instead? the 7.3l powerstrokes seem to be a good proven engine. The 6.0 is a good engine, but like a new product it just needs some time to work all the bugs out.

Let us all know how you make out, good luck.



Bryan


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## BWhite (Sep 30, 2002)

Looks like some manufacturers are going back to the "good old days" where they allow the customers work out the bugs in there new products (engines)


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## Nozzleman (Feb 6, 2003)

Don't hold me to this, but I heard Ford may be switching to a entirely different injection system for the 6.0 due to the rather sickening unreliability rate the current one has.


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## gordyo (Feb 12, 2002)

> Gordyo, are you sure it was a Chevy pick up truck you saw stuck on the side of the road


Can't mistake that gold bowtie emblem Mike, and I'm guessing that the dealership he bought it from was the one about 1/2 mile down the street on the same side of the road.


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

I just saw a JD Power long term evaluation that ranked the Ford F series at the top of its class


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I never trust any of those reviews,evaluations,and magazine articles.They don't have a clue.

Look at the real world evaluations,talk to the owners,or the mechanics who work on them.Then you'll get the true story.


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## pats plowing (Nov 27, 2001)

Hey guys,
I just sent the paperwork into the Ford Disputement Board. They are going to hear my case as well as the dealers side and fords side in 10 days. Then they will debate for 6 days and decide to reward me with any of the following
-nothing
-extended warranty and fix it
-buy back the vehicle
-swap trucks with a new one
So far i am not happy have 2850 miles on it as of today its just over 8 weeks old now. Ive been getting 13 mpg on highway or in city unloaded. I believe the truck is sick?? The mileage is not close to their guaranteed 20+mpg even 26 on the highway. Ive found more paint bubbling, new engine noises. less smoke at startup but more hesitation in gear, power and acceleration problems, my doors not shutting tight, tailgate missing a piece and the awful mileage. I didnt pay $7k extra for the psd to get the V8 gas mileage.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I hope you don't get stuck with it.Maybe you'll get lucky and they will but it back,or swap with another new one (7.3L if you can find one).

Good luck.


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

Not that this changes things much, but I'll bet your door problem is due to the tight weather seals. I have the same problem with my trucks, they're so airtight that the pressures can't equalize fast enough to let the door latch unless you slam it.

I put vent visors on and can leave the windows cracked, the doors close fine that way.


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

Good point Pelican,have you ever noticed the vents behind the cab? I notice that they accumulate alot of crud and crap in there,just something to check every now and then.


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## pats plowing (Nov 27, 2001)

Heres a two daytime pics i got finally
i wish it ran as good as it looks haha.


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## pats plowing (Nov 27, 2001)

another


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

Man thats a shame,it's a beautiful truck,hope all works out for ya,hey,there's always Chevy


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## Plow Dak (Jan 14, 2003)

Hey Pats Plowing
Just to let you know your not alone. A tow company I work for once in a while has a new 550 flatbed with the 6.0. i tell you this thingis one of the best Tow rigs i have ever used. Put two vehicles in tow with this thing and i hardly notice it. Fast and comfortable. Unfortunately, it's been in the shop 14 times with 24000 miles on it. Same thing over and over. the injector seals leak and fills the oil pan with deisel. It comes back and runs for 3 or 4 days and then right back to the shop...Can't seal it up. I'm glad it's the owners headache. i just jump into another truck. Legal stuff going on big time. i wish you luck.
Mike


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## pats plowing (Nov 27, 2001)

More problems.
Hit 3000 miles today and my turbocharger valve and icp valve went. Dealer fixed my door and gave me a free oil change while i was there. Another bump in the road.


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Pat, I feel so bad for you.You have a great looking new truck that you cannot trust to get you home ,or get a job done. I would be livid,and probably trading up to a new Dodge by now. How can Ford expect working men who use there trucks daily to buy these trucks which are in the shop more than on the road. Our local paper has a lot of (Hiring Ford A,nd B tech's) (diesel experience a plus) ads lately. I know of 2 guys with the 6.0's and they both have had zero problems,and love them.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

Has ford fixed the problems with the new engine yet or are they still just shipping them off knowing that some will be bad?


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Ford is working on it.They have updated a lot of stuff,but they still seem to be breaking down faster than they can fix the problems.

I remember when GM had problems with the early Dmaxes,but it didn't take them long to rectify them,and there were not as many trucks with proble.ms as reported on the web.

I've seen the Ford's piled up at the dealer,and it's almost an epidemic lately. 

I'm sure they will get them fixed soon enough,I just wish they wouldn't take their sweet time,as it's ticking of a lot of current,and propective buyers.


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## pats plowing (Nov 27, 2001)

Cat320,
They just keep selling and selling without a clue how to fix them. The diesel hotline basically told the dealer we know nothing good luck. He said a fix to everything should be done in 2 months (heard that before) and that he was going to experiment on mine to try to get a fix for others before they buy mine back.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Did they actually decide to buy it back ? and any ideas for a replacement ?


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

Pat I feel bad for you,You have a great looking truck with a bad heart.I can't belive that they expect you to be in the dealer every 5 min. I just say on the side of a KIA min van in white letters don't make the mistake I made buying a - and it looked brand new.I hope that you will get it resolved soon.


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Wyldman, in all seriousness,the Dmax problems were nothing next to these.The problems they had were mostly drivablity,lopey idle and fuel issues they had were taken care of quickly. I dont even think GM's problems affected more than a few % of the trucks sold. It seems like at least 1 out of 2 Fords sold are dead with in 100 miles,and they never actually get fixed,they just keep coming back in the shop. This is sad ,and unacceptable,IMO.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

That's what I was trying to say John.The Dmax problems were no where near as many,or affected so many vehicles.An most of these problems keep happening,over and over,on the same vehicle.


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

I dont know John, their motto is "Quality is Job 1". With a motto like that, they must make some real good vehicles.  Mike


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## snowjoker (Feb 6, 2003)

No offence to anybody... but you get what you pay for How do the big three compared pricewise who has the highest / lowest good luck on getting your prolbem resolved


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## pats plowing (Nov 27, 2001)

They are all priced similarly. I believe even the gm would be cheaper at least for a diesel since their rebate is double ford's (3k oppose to $1500). This truck was $40,075 and for that much $$ it should run like a dream.
wyldman, i have not heard back from Ford. The dealer has told me basically i shouldnt hold my breath for them to get back to me. They were supposed to cover my July payment; still havent seen that. I wont settle for a replacement ford unless it is 7.3l since i may get the same problems.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Good luck getting the payments covered.One of our customers has an F550 that has been at the dealer more than he has had it,and Ford absolutly refused to pick up his lease payments.It's back there again.Turbo puked (damaged from injector seals contaminating the oil,which was previously repaired),and the engine ran away sucking oil from the turbo.Blew the motor,and now Ford's telling him it's his fault as he ran it out of oil.It's been there a week,no progress yet.I hope Ford has a better answer for you,and soon ! If they don't,time to call your laywer.


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## Rooster (Dec 13, 1999)

Pat,
Stick to your guns! I talked to a local dealership and asked theim "What would happen if my engine all of a sudden died, and needed a new one?" I was told that it would be replaced with a 7.3 since that is what I had in it, so they (7.3 PSD) are still available.

Rick


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## gordyo (Feb 12, 2002)

Pat,

Are you getting passed from person to person?? You know the runaround?? Here is what I did with my Dodge Charger back in 1987 that had been to the dealer 3 times for the same problem and every time I picked it up I was told " We put it on the computer and there is nothing wrong with it". I waited till 4 O'clock one Friday afternoon and drove up to the showroom and parked right outside the window so the car could be seen. I made sure there were customers with salesmen in the showroom and also customers in the little offices ready to sign for new cars. I walked into the showroom and when the first salesman approached me and asked if he could help me I pointed to my car and I said as loud as I could so the whole place could hear, without being hysterical " Yes you can help me, I wan't to talk to someone about that piece of crap that you people sold me that has been here 3 times for the same problem and it still isn't fixed right". Let me tell you I got immediate attention, I was whisked out back direct to the Service Manager bypassing all the service adjusters who kept giving me the run around. I had my car back the next day and it was fixed.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I don't think they are producing any more with the 7.3L.I also don't think they would swap a 6.0L for a 7.3L as too many components are different.



> _Originally posted by Rooster _
> *Pat,
> Stick to your guns! I talked to a local dealership and asked theim "What would happen if my engine all of a sudden died, and needed a new one?" I was told that it would be replaced with a 7.3 since that is what I had in it, so they (7.3 PSD) are still available.
> 
> Rick *


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## Rooster (Dec 13, 1999)

See why your the Master Tech!

Maybe FORD could build a Plowsite special for replacement!  

I know wishing!

Rick


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Ford would never,ever replace a 6.0 with a 7.3 anyway,due to emissions laws.The replacement engine cannot produce more emissions that the original,and the 7.3 is a dirty engine,thats why its gone.Besides the entire harness,exhaust,and trans,and who knows what else is different. Ford typically does weird things,and interchangabilty has never been Fords strong point.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

How about a Cummins in there ?


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

I didnt want to be the one to say it,but it sure would be the end all to the Ford diesel troubles! LOL. Im sure there are plenty of used Cummins with more life left in them than the brand new PSD's.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

Hope this 6.0 will be better than the first ones.


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## JD PLOWER (May 18, 2001)

Cat all I can say is    Is that yours ? If it is congrats man, that is the ultimate high capacity dump. :yow!:


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Man that is a sharp looking truck cat320.19.5" alloys rule ! They look even nicer with the aluminum box.

What is the purpose of the extra tall box,with the rear doors ?


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## phillyplowking1 (Dec 19, 2001)

I think im in love.Thats a really nice truck.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

It's not my tuck I saw it on this website of a place here in MA that builds custom bodies http://www.road-craft.com/. I wish it was mine but i know alot of you guys would like to see it so i posted it .


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## Plow Dak (Jan 14, 2003)

*550 Update*

Hey Guys
FYI. I Just got word that the 550 Flatbed with the 6.0 I drive will be bought back by ford. Pats Plowing, hope you get your truck fixed or get your money back. It took a lawyer to get things rolling but a new International will replace this P.O.S. in short order. I never liked a ford anything untill I started driving recovery vehicles. I STARTED TO THINK THAT THEY WEREN'T THAT BAD. My opinion well, has gone back to my first impression. I REALLY DON'T LIKE A FORD ANYTHING...
Good Luck everyone.


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## JD PLOWER (May 18, 2001)

Sounds like the word is FINALLY GETTING OUT 

http://famulus.msnbc.com/famuluscom/reuters08-14-100745.asp?sym=F


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## Rooster (Dec 13, 1999)

JD Plower,

Thanks for the update link. Besides being biased toward Ford, I think Ford has showed real concern for customer satisfaction on the recall and buy back of some truck.

Now if they will only fix Pat's truck!

Rick


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## meyer22288 (May 26, 2003)

cat320 i am in love with that truck. That has got to be the ultimate work truck!


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

You forgot "I love that shade of red!"


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

LOL!! Oh man Pelican, you come out with a good one every now and then!!  Mike :waving:


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## Randy Clarke (Sep 7, 2003)

this is a big deal on the Ford sites and it should be, a big part of the problem that I read about is first the 6 lt. engine worked fine in International application with their periferals. The engine is built by them, it has a Cat DI fuel system and a Ford produced computer trying to tie 3 systems together with a new auto also.
Enginers can tell you it works on paper but no one can build it. Ford made a bad buying decision by not purchasing the ECM from International, theirs works. My partner has an 03 Ecursion 6.0lt. and you have to keep your foot on the brake at a stop light..between wanting to stall or jump into the car in front of you.
It blew the turbo up at 75 kilometers detroyed the intercooler and dumped all the engine oil. He had it 3 hours.
Fuel consumption...sometimes good usually bad. Trans works poorly on cruise when towing ....downshifts like it's on steroids,scarey.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

So if that is the problem why does ford not just put that unit in and if it worked so well in the internationals why they hell would ford change it unless it just would not clash with there new tranny.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cat320 _
> *So if that is the problem why does ford not just put that unit in and if it worked so well in the internationals why they hell would ford change it unless it just would not clash with there new tranny. *


BINGO!! Plus it would not meet emisions because they are different for light trucks!

Greg


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## JD PLOWER (May 18, 2001)

One other rumor to mull over is that Ford is going away from the split shot injection. This (according to Ford) is what makes the engine so quiet. Seems the internationals don't use the split shots since quiet isn't at the top of their buyers list. Just some stuff I've read on the web so we'll see if its true soon enough


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## Randy Clarke (Sep 7, 2003)

I maybe wrong on the new trans but what Ford has really done from what I understand is they have taken the r-100 and have changed the shift perameters - 1st,2nd,overdrive2nd for 3rd, 4th and overdrive for 5th with a new 1st gear lower ratio. More stuff in the mix.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

JD PLOWER - this split shot injection you refer to,is it the same as pilot injection ?

Even so,it will not solve all their problems,they need a lot of redesign on that engine,and quick !


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## JD PLOWER (May 18, 2001)

To learn more click this link 6.0

I know its lengthy but to get the entire story you really have to read the ENTIRE THREAD.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Good link.It's basically the same as pilot injection,just different terminology.


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## Santo (Sep 3, 2003)

Friend bought a new '97 7.3 psd with a cracked block near a freeze plug , Ford gave him another one . He had to do some footwork but it was worth it.


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