# Covid-19 SBA grant application



## seville009

This is a link to the online application for $10,000 Federal/SBA loan program; the loan is a grant that does not have to be repaid

have not gone through the application myself; looked it up for someone else and am just passing it along

https://covid19relief.sba.gov/#/


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## tynsmyth1

My accountant had me fill the app out this morning. She deals with a lot of contractors and knows that even though many of us fell into the essential category we are operating at about 20% if that. She also had me fill out a payroll app with BofA that would provide payroll money to keep employees working. It is supposed to be used for payroll but can be used for certain other expenses if necessary. If used for payroll it is forgiven and not required to be repaid. If used for other expenses it is repaid at one percent interest. Those r the broad strokes


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## tynsmyth1

My sincere hope that everyone is surviving this disaster and does not fall victim to this virus. Good health to all


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## plow4beer

tynsmyth1 said:


> . It is supposed to be used for payroll but can be used for certain other expenses if necessary. If used for payroll it is forgiven and not required to be repaid


So free money!? Whaaaaaat?.....I don't believe in free money, unless you find it laying on the ground


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## JMHConstruction

I had already laid off 2 guys when I found out about the payroll loan. From my understanding, that alone disqualifies me for the "forgivable" part. 1% is pretty good though (I hadn't heard that), even paying it back in full.

I'm not a huge fan of the government handing out "free" money. To me, that's not capitalism. I don't want to see anyone out of work or businesses fail, but sometimes that's the way things happen. There's my unpopular opinion for the day.

That said, I don't NOT write something off on my taxes just because I don't think it should be a write off. The game is meant to be played, I'm just not a big fan of the rule book


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## FredG

plow4beer said:


> So free money!? Whaaaaaat?.....I don't believe in free money, unless you find it laying on the ground


 Yes and if you never done business with the SBA before it could be a waste of time. You still have to employee X amount of people.

When they say sole proprietor they don't mean work by yourself with no employee's. They want to know if you own 20%, 100% or in between. I think there blowing smoke unless you employ a lot of people which would leave me out.

Besides last season never had more than 4 or 5 guys and won't use no more than that this year. Never the less good luck to all that are applying for it.


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## FredG

JMHConstruction said:


> I had already laid off 2 guys when I found out about the payroll loan. From my understanding, that alone disqualifies me for the "forgivable" part. 1% is pretty good though (I hadn't heard that), even paying it back in full.
> 
> I'm not a huge fan of the government handing out "free" money. To me, that's not capitalism. I don't want to see anyone out of work or businesses fail, but sometimes that's the way things happen. There's my unpopular opinion for the day.
> 
> That said, I don't NOT write something off on my taxes just because I don't think it should be a write off. The game is meant to be played, I'm just not a big fan of the rule book


 Some are already failing and will be lucky to re coop even with monies from the Government. I surely would not worry about laying off. Unemployed are certainly getting a gift.

Unemployment is close to what they get working and that is prevailing wage. A regular worker you pay $20.00 per hr is probably getting almost double of what they were making working after taxes.


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## seville009

plow4beer said:


> So free money!? Whaaaaaat?.....I don't believe in free money, unless you find it laying on the ground


if it's a "grant", then it is free - at least until they change the rules

the big question at this point is if anyone will actually receive anything anyway - grant or loan.


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## snoboss

My understanding is you can apply for an sba loan and $ 10000.00 does not have to be paid back. After $25000 they are going to line up your collateral for your loan. The whole (SETUP) reminds me of the movie WAR GAMES where at the end of the movie the computer comes up with the best solution... "The only way to win is NOT to play"


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## FredG

snoboss said:


> My understanding is you can apply for an sba loan and $ 10000.00 does not have to be paid back. After $25000 they are going to line up your collateral for your loan. The whole (SETUP) reminds me of the movie WAR GAMES where at the end of the movie the computer comes up with the best solution... "The only way to win is NOT to play"


 Amen!


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## cwren2472

JMHConstruction said:


> I had already laid off 2 guys when I found out about the payroll loan. From my understanding, that alone disqualifies me for the "forgivable" part.


Having laid them off does not disqualify you- you just have to rehire them and maintain your average payroll after getting the loan


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## FredG

I think we could all use a little bone in times like this forgivable of course. Out of the 62 Yrs I been here I never got nothing for free. My Son got some free money for a tavern. City Money trying to boost tourism.

I'm like WTF Kid really got no established credit besides a car loan with my signature and gets 20K. I'm like if I can get $20K I will buy a building downtown. Went through the steps and was turned away. Years ago I tried to get a SBA loan suggested by my Doctor. Ya okay, 

I been a stable 750 beacon score or around for over 30 years. I don't borrow much money but you got to pay on something or you become a ghost. I have no idea what you need to qualify for these forgivable or low interest Government loans. 

I know one thing I never received a dime.. Oh also if you think your Veteran status for loans it won't work out to good for you unless you are disabled. The hard working good earning small businessman is going to get nothing for free. 

Furthermore I'm not sure I want them looking at my books. Not that I'm doing anything wrong that I know of or my accountant. You could wake a sleeping bear or stir up a hornets nest. Good Luck


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## cwren2472

JMHConstruction said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the government handing out "free" money. To me, that's not capitalism. I don't want to see anyone out of work or businesses fail, but sometimes that's the way things happen. There's my unpopular opinion for the day.


I understand your position but don't forget that that money is not bestowed by the grant fairy - it's your tax money. If you feel that other businesses are more worthy of your tax dollars, feel free to let them have it. That $2 trillion is getting spent no matter what and you are going to help pay it back (or, rather, your kids and grandkids will)


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## JMHConstruction

cwren2472 said:


> I understand your position but don't forget that that money is not bestowed by the grant fairy - it's your tax money. If you feel that other businesses are more worthy of your tax dollars, feel free to let them have it. That $2 trillion is getting spent no matter what and you are going to help pay it back (or, rather, your kids and grandkids will)


I agree with you



JMHConstruction said:


> That said, I don't NOT write something off on my taxes just because I don't think it should be a write off. The game is meant to be played, I'm just not a big fan of the rule book


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## Philbilly2

seville009 said:


> This is a link to the online application for $10,000 Federal/SBA loan program; the loan is a grant that does not have to be repaid
> 
> have not gone through the application myself; looked it up for someone else and am just passing it along
> 
> https://covid19relief.sba.gov/#/


So my understanding of this grant (at least as my accountant explained to me today) is you have to get the PPP loan first, then you can apply for this grant as well.

Anyone heard different on this?


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## seville009

Philbilly2 said:


> So my understanding of this grant (at least as my accountant explained to me today) is you have to get the PPP loan first, then you can apply for this grant as well.
> 
> Anyone heard different on this?


They are different programs according to the link below. Look at page 7

https://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/_...ess-owner-s-guide-to-the-cares-act-final-.pdf


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## cwren2472

Philbilly2 said:


> So my understanding of this grant (at least as my accountant explained to me today) is you have to get the PPP loan first, then you can apply for this grant as well.
> 
> Anyone heard different on this?


My understanding is that the PPP loan IS the grant - _once its forgiven_. There is no "grant" per se


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## Philbilly2

cwren2472 said:


> My understanding is that the PPP loan IS the grant - _*IF* its forgiven_. There is no "grant" per se


fixed it fer ya Thumbs Up


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## FredG

Big GC in the City just got a letter from the Government he got all kind of Government funding forgivable without even applying for it. Laid off everybody cause he thinks he's double dipping.  If he is it's over my head.

Don't ask me I'm just saying what one of his project managers told me. He employs over 100 people. He kept the salary guy it the office doing submitals etc and his office girls.


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## plow4beer

seville009 said:


> if it's a "grant", then it is free - at least until they change the rules
> 
> the big question at this point is if anyone will actually receive anything anyway - grant or loan.


I'm sure some will, and feel there's some that it could really save ther ace....but No banker, lawyer, or accountant can tell you how the fed determines (with certainty) if/how the money is "forgiven". And that will not be decided until later on, after you've already taken the money. For some, it's a no brainer that they should try and get it. I doubt We do, we're working...maybe not at 100%, but close enough. I've spent more time researching/talking to my lawyer/banker/accountant (as well as a handful of goons I know in biz for themselves) about it the last few days than I care to admit. I'm gonna keep doing what I've been doing...I learned a lot today from my lawyer & accountant, and it boosted my self confidence


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## seville009

One person's actual experience/perspective from another forum.....

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/payroll-protection-program.82300/


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## Philbilly2

seville009 said:


> One person's actual experience/perspective from another forum.....
> 
> https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/payroll-protection-program.82300/


This says nothing more than we already know...

What the actual terms of forgiveness are what everyone needs to know.


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## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> This says nothing more than we already know...
> 
> What the actual terms of forgiveness are what everyone needs to know.


"Verbal confirmation" lol...


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## seville009

Philbilly2 said:


> This says nothing more than we already know...
> 
> What the actual terms of forgiveness are what everyone needs to know.


https://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/_...ess-owner-s-guide-to-the-cares-act-final-.pdf


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## plow4beer

Philbilly2 said:


> This says nothing more than we already know...
> 
> What the actual terms of forgiveness are what everyone needs to know.


Eggzactly...and both of those guys on that forum said 2 Months wages, which is wrong from what ive read, & my banker/accountant/& few goons have told me....it's 2.5 months. This tells me those guys aren't woke.

I'm not sayin* I'm not gonna apply....just leaning towards not right now.


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## Ajlawn1

plow4beer said:


> Eggzactly...and both of those guys on that forum said 2 Months wages, which is wrong from what ive read, & my banker/accountant/& few goons have told me....it's 2.5 months. This tells me those guys aren't woke.
> 
> I'm not sayin* I'm not gonna apply....just leaning towards not right now.


You better get on the ball then if you're leaning as I am sure it will tap out sooner then later... You don't have to use it...


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## plow4beer

seville009 said:


> https://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/_...ess-owner-s-guide-to-the-cares-act-final-.pdf


So after the dust settles, the fed decides if they will forgive any or all of the loan. Then charge you up to 4%. This is what I don't like...& if I keep going like I am right now, on top of things going like I anticipate from here forward, I'll be the guy that gets very little(if any) forgiven...idk, just not getting that warm fuzzy feeling about the PPP right now...

Something else some of you should know...my banker informed me, that once they get approval for you, you have 10days to close on the loan....so basically you have a week or so to decide if your gonna take from the day of approval....you can't just get approved, then wait till whenever to take it


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## plow4beer

Ajlawn1 said:


> You better get on the ball then if you're leaning as I am sure it will tap out sooner then later... You don't have to use it...


Obviously no one knows when that will happen, but I'm not worried about submitting by Monday morning and feeling I'm "too late", based on other things I've been told and/or read.


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## Philbilly2

plow4beer said:


> So after the dust settles, the fed decides if they will forgive any or all of the loan. Then charge you up to 4%. This is what I don't like...& if I keep going like I am right now, on top of things going like I anticipate from here forward, I'll be the guy that gets very little(if any) forgiven...idk, just not getting that warm fuzzy feeling about the PPP right now...


I agree with John on his point. Apply for it if you think you might want it. Don't have to use it, you can always just pay it off.

I did... we are still working... not at 100% like yourself, but we are still going. I just want to see the actual forgiveness documents...

The way my accountant said it to me when I said "why would they just "give" me a few hundred thousands? He responded " your smart enough... why are they giving millions of people $1200 checks... just cause?"


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## Ajlawn1

plow4beer said:


> Obviously no one knows when that will happen, but I'm not worried about submitting by Monday morning and feeling I'm "too late", based on other things I've been told and/or read.


Yeah scratch that last statement... Not sure what I was thinking they'll just print more...


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## Philbilly2

plow4beer said:


> So after the dust settles, the fed decides if they will forgive any or all of the loan. Then charge you up to 4%. This is what I don't like...& if I keep going like I am right now, on top of things going like I anticipate from here forward, I'll be the guy that gets very little(if any) forgiven...idk, just not getting that warm fuzzy feeling about the PPP right now...


Some is better than none right?

I share your feeling though... I will be shocked if this is really what they say it is in the end


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## Philbilly2

plow4beer said:


> Eggzactly...and both of those guys on that forum said 2 Months wages, which is wrong from what ive read, & my banker/accountant/& few goons have told me....it's 2.5 months. This tells me those guys aren't woke.
> 
> I'm not sayin* I'm not gonna apply....just leaning towards not right now.


8 weeks is what I have been told


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## plow4beer

Ajlawn1 said:


> Yeah scratch that last statement... Not sure what I was thinking they'll just print more...
> 
> View attachment 202859


Isn't that where all this is coming from anyway?...like I said before, no such thing as free money, at least not from the gooberment. One way or another, this money they're "giving away" wil be dealt with


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## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> 8 weeks is what I have been told


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## plow4beer

Philbilly2 said:


> Some is better than none right?
> 
> I share your feeling though... I will be shocked if this is really what they say it is in the end


Ya, depending at what cost & involvement that means....I'm wondering if it will be a nightmare & time consuming fighting, just to get a small portion (or none) forgiven. My blood pressures high enough & I have enough going on that I don't need or want that



Philbilly2 said:


> 8 weeks is what I have been told


No 10 weeks... but you have 8 weeks to burn up 75% of it.


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## Ajlawn1

plow4beer said:


> Ya, depending at what cost & involvement that means....I'm wondering if it will be a nightmare & time consuming fighting, just to get a small portion (or none) forgiven. My blood pressures high enough & I have enough going on that I don't need or want that
> 
> No 10 weeks... but you have 8 weeks to burn up 75% of it.


No you have 8 weeks to burn up 100% of it, you just have to at least use 75% for payroll...

This could be hard to comply with....


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## cwren2472

The 10 weeks/250%/2.5 times is an arbitrary figure designed to roughly cover 8 weeks of payroll plus 2 months of the other covered expenses (utilities, mortgage, the other stuff I dont remember) - if your actual expenses dont equal that 250% when they ask for the documentation at the end of the period, then they will only pay off what you can document

FWIW, the 2.5 times came within 4% of what we calculated using our rough numbers - if we have to pay back a few percent because we over guessed, who cares? The rest is all free money and it would have been expenses we had to pay anyway


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## FredG

I didn't apply for anything because you can't believe any of it. Hope it works out for whoever did. Go down by NYC get hit by a bus you will be put in a trailer with a tag on your foot C 19 related.


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## plow4beer

Ajlawn1 said:


> No you have 8 weeks to burn up 100% of it, you just have to at least use 75% for payroll...
> 
> This could be hard to comply with....
> 
> View attachment 202862


My bad, that's correct.


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## cwren2472

Philbilly2 said:


> The way my accountant said it to me when I said "why would they just "give" me a few hundred thousands? "


One of the boxes on that form you checked said something to the effect of "my business has been severely harmed by the Coronavirus and I require this money to survive and keep people employed" - so technically someone that is "unharmed" and still working normally would be "committing fraud"


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## Philbilly2

cwren2472 said:


> One of the boxes on that form you checked said something to the effect of "my business has been severely harmed by the Coronavirus and I require this money to survive and keep people employed" - so technically someone that is "unharmed" and still working normally would be "committing fraud"


Interpretation...


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## Ajlawn1

cwren2472 said:


> The 10 weeks/250%/2.5 times is an arbitrary figured designed to roughly cover 8 weeks of payroll plus 2 months of the other covered expenses (utilities, mortgage, the other stuff I dont remember) - if your actual expenses dont equal that 250% when they ask for the documentation at the end of the period, then they will only pay off what you can document
> 
> FWIW, the 2.5 times came within 4% of what we calculated using our rough numbers - if we have to pay back a few percent because we over guessed, who cares? The rest is all free money and it would have been expenses we had to pay anyway


It's waaaaaay too early for this...


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## Philbilly2

Ajlawn1 said:


> No you have 8 weeks to burn up 100% of it, you just have to at least use 75% for payroll...
> 
> This could be hard to comply with....
> 
> View attachment 202862


Correct, that was what I was meaning.


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## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> Interpretation...


Might not want to pay off your building with it.. I thought you had mentioned that...lol


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## cwren2472

Ajlawn1 said:


> It's waaaaaay too early for this...


I know....


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## cwren2472

Ajlawn1 said:


> Might not want to pay off your *hellcat* with it.. I thought you had mentioned that...lol


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## Philbilly2

Ajlawn1 said:


> Might not want to pay off your building with it.. I thought you had mentioned that...lol
> 
> View attachment 202864


Interpretation...


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## cwren2472

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/pa...r-sanborn-owner-rising-tide-brewing-loan-sba/

Interview with an owner who got one of the first PPP loans

The too-long-didnt-read is: he got the money but doesnt expect any forgiveness, mostly because he doesnt intend to bring any employees back despite that being the purpose of the loan


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## 1olddogtwo

Nothing to do with the loan, but since the 1200.00 was mentioned.

I wasn't anticipating receiving anything base on my yearly income. To my surprise, I got 319.40 yesterday.

2018 and 2019 IRS filing are north of 160K for me.


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## the Suburbanite

It appears the disaster loan/grant is now tied to # of employees, $1k/employee, up to $10K. No employees? Out of luck.


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## Philbilly2

The Paycheck Protection Program ran dry today...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/349-...s-runs-out-of-money-in-13-days-143606277.html


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## seville009

1olddogtwo said:


> Nothing to do with the loan, but since the 1200.00 was mentioned.
> 
> I wasn't anticipating receiving anything base on my yearly income. To my surprise, I got 319.40 yesterday.
> 
> 2018 and 2019 IRS filing are north of 160K for me.


The $1,200 is actually an advance of a credit on 2020 tax returns, so if your 2020 income is less, you could still get more (up to the $1,200 max, of course)


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## EWSplow

Philbilly2 said:


> The Paycheck Protection Program ran dry today...
> 
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/349-...s-runs-out-of-money-in-13-days-143606277.html


So, you snooze, you looze...


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## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> The Paycheck Protection Program ran dry today...
> 
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/349-...s-runs-out-of-money-in-13-days-143606277.html


@plow4beer ?


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## Ajlawn1

seville009 said:


> The $1,200 is actually an advance of a credit on 2020 tax returns, so if your 2020 income is less, you could still get more (up to the $1,200 max, of course)


It's based on your last filed return, I'm guessing alot of 20's might have not been done yet...


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## Philbilly2

Ajlawn1 said:


> It's based on your last filed return, I'm guessing alot of 20's might have not been done yet...


Last paragraph










https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/will-we-have-to-pay-back-stimulus-check-2020-4


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## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> Last paragraph
> 
> View attachment 203089
> 
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/will-we-have-to-pay-back-stimulus-check-2020-4


Thumbs Up

I guess if ole mop goes from north of 160K to getting a $1200 check due to 2020 I'm guessing its really not going to make too much of a difference...:laugh:


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## Mark Oomkes

plow4beer said:


> I've spent more time researching/talking to my lawyer/banker/accountant (as well as a handful of goons I know in biz for themselves) about it the last few days than I care to admit.


Define goons...


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> One of the boxes on that form you checked said something to the effect of "my business has been severely harmed by the Coronavirus and I require this money to survive and keep people employed" - so technically someone that is "unharmed" and still working normally would be "committing fraud"


The government would know fraud...they are a fraud.


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> The Paycheck Protection Program ran dry today...
> 
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/349-...s-runs-out-of-money-in-13-days-143606277.html


Theoretically, mine is my account.

Because theoretically, the government actually has this money.


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## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Theoretically, mine is my account.
> 
> Because theoretically, the government actually has this money.


I'm hoping mine will be in my driveway tomorrow or by the weekend...


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## seville009

Ajlawn1 said:


> It's based on your last filed return, I'm guessing alot of 20's might have not been done yet...


the *advance* is based on the most recent return; the final amount is based in your 2020 return. Nobody has filed 2020 returns yet.


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## Mark Oomkes

Ajlawn1 said:


> I'm hoping mine will be in my driveway tomorrow or by the weekend...


Theoretically?


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## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Theoretically?


Yes.


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## Mr.Markus

Ajlawn1 said:


> I'm hoping mine will be in my driveway tomorrow or by the weekend...


They're giving you a truck...!?!!!


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## 1olddogtwo

seville009 said:


> The $1,200 is actually an advance of a credit on 2020 tax returns, so if your 2020 income is less, you could still get more (up to the $1,200 max, of course)


2020 is still active for another 7 months.......unless your more then a hour ahead of me


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## SHAWZER

He found a good deal on a GMC destined for Canada .....


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## plow4beer

Ajlawn1 said:


> @plow4beer ?


What?



Mark Oomkes said:


> Define goons...


Take a good hard look in the mirror


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## Mr.Markus

SHAWZER said:


> He found a good deal on a GMC destined for Canada .....


GM and good deal......!

That made me laugh...


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## Mark Oomkes

plow4beer said:


> Take a good hard look in the mirror


Can't...they always brake.


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## Mr.Markus

Mark Oomkes said:


> Can't...they always brake.


Without an endorsement...!!?


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## cwren2472

Shakeshack receives $10M from PPP program as "small business" but then generously returns it 1 day after CNN ran a story about how they had $112M in cash on hand. (Which, according to their filing, would only keep them afloat for 1.5 years)

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/19/business/small-businesses-ppp-loans-chain-restaurants/index.html

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/20/business/shake-shack-ppp-loan-sba/index.html


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> Shakeshack receives $10M from PPP program as "small business" but then generously returns it 1 day after CNN ran a story about how they had $112M in cash on hand. (Which, according to their filing, would only keep them afloat for 1.5 years)
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/19/business/small-businesses-ppp-loans-chain-restaurants/index.html
> 
> https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/20/business/shake-shack-ppp-loan-sba/index.html


Apparently there's only 1 guy that is overseeing the entire program.


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## Philbilly2

So has anyone received and real "direction" for the PPP money?

I have asked my accountant and my banker if I don't have work for all my guys, am I supposed to keep them on, pay them with this money and HOPE it is forgiven? What if it is not? I just payed them to sit home and I am now on the hook for the money? 

Honestly... since I am on the fence... not 100% sure it will be forgiven, my banker says that portion of the program has not been given to the banks by the SBA yet, it seems much easier to just lay them off and pay the money that you don't use back after the 8 weeks? 

I just wish someone had a clue so I knew which way to go with this.


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## cwren2472

We haven't seen a dime - our accountant said the Bank of America basically screwed us by not filing in a timely fashion and it appears he's telling the truth because our banker just followed up _yesterday _to say that she needs another document. She hadn't even looked at them until now. She is working on it now in case they approve the next wave of money but I'm not holding my breath.

In any case, I've heard a lot of businesses, especially restaurants that are shut down indefinitely, raising the same concern you have. We are still going to chance it anyway though I have little hope we'll ever get anything regardless.


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> So has anyone received and real "direction" for the PPP money?


Yes....the direction is there is no direction, at least not officially.

It was recommended to us to take some of us off unemployment starting next week and use the money to cover payroll. Use as much as possible through normal payroll, benefits, bonuses, retention bonuses/raises, etc.

So apparently I'm going back to work next week.


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## Philbilly2

cwren2472 said:


> We haven't seen a dime - our accountant said the Bank of America basically screwed us by not filing in a timely fashion and it appears he's telling the truth because our banker just followed up _yesterday _to say that she needs another document. She hadn't even looked at them until now. She is working on it now in case they approve the next wave of money but I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> In any case, I've heard a lot of businesses, especially restaurants that are shut down indefinitely, raising the same concern you have. We are still going to chance it anyway though I have little hope we'll ever get anything regardless.


That blows that the big banks screwed the small guys.


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## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> So has anyone received and real "direction" for the PPP money?
> 
> I have asked my accountant and my banker if I don't have work for all my guys, am I supposed to keep them on, pay them with this money and HOPE it is forgiven? What if it is not? I just payed them to sit home and I am now on the hook for the money?
> 
> Honestly... since I am on the fence... not 100% sure it will be forgiven, my banker says that portion of the program has not been given to the banks by the SBA yet, it seems much easier to just lay them off and pay the money that you don't use back after the 8 weeks?
> 
> I just wish someone had a clue so I knew which way to go with this.


Got deposited Thursday... He axed how we wanted the dispersements... I said well considering I just heard it's empty how about just one then...

Go big or go home I've always heard...


----------



## cwren2472

Ajlawn1 said:


> He axed how we wanted the dispersements... I said "*Just make the check payable to Dodge of South Bend*"


Makes sense


----------



## andersman02

We just got the SBA Grant deposited into our bank account today. No warning nothing. Filled out there necessary stuff like 2 weeks ago, right when it came out


----------



## EWSplow

cwren2472 said:


> We haven't seen a dime - our accountant said the Bank of America basically screwed us by not filing in a timely fashion and it appears he's telling the truth because our banker just followed up _yesterday _to say that she needs another document. She hadn't even looked at them until now. She is working on it now in case they approve the next wave of money but I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> In any case, I've heard a lot of businesses, especially restaurants that are shut down indefinitely, raising the same concern you have. We are still going to chance it anyway though I have little hope we'll ever get anything regardless.


Typical for BAC. Look at their disaster in the 2008ish housing collapse.


----------



## EWSplow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yes....the direction is there is no direction, at least not officially.
> 
> It was recommended to us to take some of us off unemployment starting next week and use the money to cover payroll. Use as much as possible through normal payroll, benefits, bonuses, retention bonuses/raises, etc.
> 
> So apparently I'm going back to work next week.


So everyone is will still be laid off?


----------



## Luther

Philbilly2 said:


> So has anyone received and real "direction" for the PPP money?


We received ours early last week. We bank with Chase and to our surprise they were not helpful at all. A small bank hooked us up. Up till then everyone was still getting their paycheck anyways, but this certainly helps with the situation. Rules are pretty simple. You have eight weeks of payroll protection from the date you received the money. If you don't spend at least 75% of it on your payroll, you will have to pay it back.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Luther said:


> We received ours early last week. We bank with Chase and to our surprise they were not helpful at all. A small bank hooked us up. Up till then everyone was still getting their paycheck anyways, but this certainly helps with the situation. Rules are pretty simple. You have eight weeks of payroll protection from the date you received the money. If you don't spend at least 75% of it on your payroll, you will have to pay it back.


You can spend 1% up to 100% and don't have to pay it back if it's for payroll... Unless you're Phil then probably all of it will be due/dew/do...


----------



## Ajlawn1

cwren2472 said:


> Makes sense


Actually it was Dodge of Laporte but neither here nor there... I got a feeling the new little midget rhino's going to cost me some new furniture...


----------



## BossPlow2010

Luther said:


> We received ours early last week. We bank with Chase and to our surprise they were not helpful at all. A small bank hooked us up. Up till then everyone was still getting their paycheck anyways, but this certainly helps with the situation. Rules are pretty simple. You have eight weeks of payroll protection from the date you received the money. If you don't spend at least 75% of it on your payroll, you will have to pay it back.


Pretty sure you have to keep the same number (Or greater number) of people on payroll too.


----------



## Ajlawn1

BossPlow2010 said:


> Pretty sure you have to keep the same number (Or greater number) of people on payroll too.


Had more last year, less this year... Asked how many this year but amount was all based off last years average...


----------



## jomama45

Philbilly2 said:


> So has anyone received and real "direction" for the PPP money?
> 
> I have asked my accountant and my banker if I don't have work for all my guys, am I supposed to keep them on, pay them with this money and HOPE it is forgiven? What if it is not? I just payed them to sit home and I am now on the hook for the money?
> 
> Honestly... since I am on the fence... not 100% sure it will be forgiven, my banker says that portion of the program has not been given to the banks by the SBA yet, it seems much easier to just lay them off and pay the money that you don't use back after the 8 weeks?
> 
> I just wish someone had a clue so I knew which way to go with this.


"IF" I was in your position, I'd probably try to find a way to keep everyone on, even if they all worked 32 hours, and then pay them all out for 40 hours. If you literally use it for payroll, every indicator is that it will be forgiven completely. It could save said employee a bunch of PITA dealing with UE, and send a message to your guys that your willing to take care of them in these tough times.

That said, I'm sure my per employee costs are much lower than yours, and if the guy is dead weight, now would probably be an ideal time to cull the herd.........


----------



## jomama45

BossPlow2010 said:


> Pretty sure you have to keep the same number (Or greater number) of people on payroll too.


Not in anything I read, it's only based on overall payroll from everything I have been enlightened to. I divided the money I got out over 8 weeks, and simply have to average 37 hours per week for the next 8 weeks and we'll be clear.


----------



## BossPlow2010

jomama45 said:


> Not in anything I read, it's only based on overall payroll from everything I have been enlightened to. I divided the money I got out over 8 weeks, and simply have to average 37 hours per week for the next 8 weeks and we'll be clear.


 Number of Staff: Your loan forgiveness will be reduced if you decrease your full-time employee headcount
https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/PPP--Fact-Sheet.pdf


----------



## jomama45

BossPlow2010 said:


>  Number of Staff: Your loan forgiveness will be reduced if you decrease your full-time employee headcount
> https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/PPP--Fact-Sheet.pdf


Interesting, I think I filled out the "most newest fifth edition" 2 weeks ago, that must have came in the 7th or 8th edition...........


----------



## plow4beer

andersman02 said:


> We just got the SBA Grant deposited into our bank account today. No warning nothing. Filled out there necessary stuff like 2 weeks ago, right when it came out


So I decided to apply at the end of last week...2hrs after applying, my banker called me and said I was approved. Told me I needed to come through the drive through this week,sign papers, and take my check....That was today.....worked out perfect, because today is the first day of our pay period (thurs-wed)


----------



## BossPlow2010

andersman02 said:


> We just got the SBA Grant deposited into our bank account today. No warning nothing. Filled out there necessary stuff like 2 weeks ago, right when it came out


Some people have been saying there was a personal credit score check, did you notice that?


----------



## jomama45

plow4beer said:


> So I decided to apply at the end of last week...2hrs after applying, my banker called me and said I was approved. Told me I needed to come through the drive through this week,sign papers, and take my check....That was today.....worked out perfect, because today is the first day of our pay period (thurs-wed)


Are you going to frame the check on your office wall or something? It's not like you can take it to the bar and cash it nowadays, why wouldn't they just direct deposit it right away?


----------



## plow4beer

jomama45 said:


> Are you going to frame the check on your office wall or something? It's not like you can take it to the bar and cash it nowadays, why wouldn't they just direct deposit it right away?


Hell idk, he didn't even ask me about direct deposit. I'm just ready to make it rain this weekend....now if only the strip clubs were open


----------



## BossPlow2010

jomama45 said:


> Are you going to frame the check on your office wall or something? It's not like you can take it to the bar and cash it nowadays, why wouldn't they just direct deposit it right away?


----------



## FredG

BossPlow2010 said:


> Some people have been saying there was a personal credit score check, did you notice that?


 I did not apply, I'm pretty sure they would check on judgments and stuff like that. If you don't pay nobody your bound to misuse the funds.


----------



## Ajlawn1

BossPlow2010 said:


>  Number of Staff: Your loan forgiveness will be reduced if you decrease your full-time employee headcount
> https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/PPP--Fact-Sheet.pdf


Most likely this refers to right now since they axe how many employees you have on the app... The whole point of the PPP is to keep people working, so they don't want you getting rid of people after you received it...


----------



## Philbilly2

jomama45 said:


> "IF" I was in your position, I'd probably try to find a way to keep everyone on, even if they all worked 32 hours, and then pay them all out for 40 hours. If you literally use it for payroll, every indicator is that it will be forgiven completely. It could save said employee a bunch of PITA dealing with UE, and send a message to your guys that your willing to take care of them in these tough times.
> 
> That said, I'm sure my per employee costs are much lower than yours, and if the guy is dead weight, now would probably be an ideal time to cull the herd.........


Question for you as I agree with your views.

If 8 weeks pay cost you a few hundred thousand bucks, and you did not have any work for those 8 weeks of PPP... would you trust the indications of forgiven completely?

If we have 32 hours of work, I have no issues paying 40 and taking that gamble on the small dollar. We are week to week right now, and I am not sure how many more weeks I can dig stuff up before the construction side guys will dry up until they start letting work again. We have not seen a new project awarded since before this happened. Everyone is sitting tight on their money to see what happens in the next couple weeks.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> Question for you as I agree with your views.
> 
> If 8 weeks pay cost you a few hundred thousand bucks, and you did not have any work for those 8 weeks of PPP... would you trust the indications of forgiven completely?
> 
> If we have 32 hours of work, I have no issues paying 40 and taking that gamble on the small dollar. We are week to week right now, and I am not sure how many more weeks I can dig stuff up before the construction side guys will dry up until they start letting work again. We have not seen a new project awarded since before this happened. Everyone is sitting tight on their money to see what happens in the next couple weeks.


Have you been approved? You only have 10 days from approval to sign paperwork and then the 8 weeks start from that signing day is what I was told...

I'd just pay them no matter what... If I didn't have anything to do they'd be cleaning with a tooth brush or I'd also just pay them to sit home too... If they sit home getting paid maybe you could work something out to bank their hours if they sit home...?


----------



## the Suburbanite

Ajlawn1 said:


> Have you been approved? You only have 10 days from approval to sign paperwork and then the 8 weeks start from that signing day is what I was told...
> 
> I'd just pay them no matter what... If I didn't have anything to do they'd be cleaning with a tooth brush or I'd also just pay them to sit home too... If they sit home getting paid maybe you could work something out to bank their hours if they sit home...?


Gonna go out on a limb and say the penalties for getting caught "banking" hours with employees and PPP $ would be higher than getting caught spending PPP funds on modern dance and Colombian magic powder


----------



## Ajlawn1

the Suburbanite said:


> Gonna go out on a limb and say the penalties for getting caught "banking" hours with employees and PPP $ would be higher than getting caught spending PPP funds on modern dance and Colombian magic powder


So you're saying you never took a sip off a fountain drink and then refilled it before you paid for it...


----------



## Philbilly2

Ajlawn1 said:


> Have you been approved? You only have 10 days from approval to sign paperwork and then the 8 weeks start from that signing day is what I was told...
> 
> I'd just pay them no matter what... If I didn't have anything to do they'd be cleaning with a tooth brush or I'd also just pay them to sit home too... If they sit home getting paid maybe you could work something out to bank their hours if they sit home...?


Money hit my account last Tuesday.

The banking has crossed my mind if they dont forgive it. If they forgive it... no harm no foul.


----------



## the Suburbanite

Ajlawn1 said:


> So you're saying you never took a sip off a fountain drink and then refilled it before you paid for it...


Only to make room for free ice.
Kidding.
I don't "sample" product at the soopermarket before paying either.


----------



## EWSplow

It looks like a little light at the end of the tunnel. 
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-g...-expected-extend-stay-home-order-until-may-15


----------



## Ajlawn1

EWSplow said:


> It looks like a little light at the end of the tunnel.
> https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-g...-expected-extend-stay-home-order-until-may-15


Nice, now guys can paint their mowers and trailers as they wait...


----------



## jomama45

Philbilly2 said:


> Question for you as I agree with your views.
> 
> *If 8 weeks pay cost you a few hundred thousand bucks, and you did not have any work for those 8 weeks of PPP... would you trust the indications of forgiven completely?*
> 
> If we have 32 hours of work, I have no issues paying 40 and taking that gamble on the small dollar. We are week to week right now, and I am not sure how many more weeks I can dig stuff up before the construction side guys will dry up until they start letting work again. We have not seen a new project awarded since before this happened. Everyone is sitting tight on their money to see what happens in the next couple weeks.


Yes, I would, and do. Maybe I'm naive, but this is exactly what the PPP was meant for, not the huge public traded jerks ( and colleges) that took it and don't need it.

I had an opportunity to meet with the CEO of the local bank I use the same day I got my loan papers approved. (Thankfully, he needs a new garage floor and the timing was perfect!) I've known him and his family for years as customers, and he's been in the loan side of the banking industry for 40+years. He was pretty clear that all of the "loan" would be forgiven, assuming you followed the relatively simple guidelines. I was apprehensive at first because there was so much different information floating around.

PLEASE DO NOT take my word for it though. Definitely talk to your accountant and bank rep. before you pay your guys out of pocket if you don't think you can get it forgiven......


----------



## jomama45

EWSplow said:


> It looks like a little light at the end of the tunnel.
> https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-g...-expected-extend-stay-home-order-until-may-15


Well, I hope ours gets shortened then, as I don't want to lose the bet I made.........


----------



## Philbilly2

Well... I sent out the first round of Gooberment paychecks this morning...

I know my guys are honest when 2 of them have already called and said "Ah... something must have gone wrong with the payroll app. I did not have a 40 hour week last week." :laugh:


----------



## EWSplow

The old lady is supposed to get her PPP check at the end of the week. I hope its more than what she would have gotten from the state unemployment and $600 federal subsidy...


----------



## jomama45

EWSplow said:


> The old lady is supposed to get her PPP check at the end of the week. I hope its more than what she would have gotten from the state unemployment and $600 federal subsidy...


What does your better half do for a living?


----------



## Philbilly2

EWSplow said:


> The old lady is supposed to get her PPP check at the end of the week. I hope its more than what she would have gotten from the state unemployment and $600 federal subsidy...


Just member that unemployment does not pay any benefits...


----------



## EWSplow

jomama45 said:


> What does your better half do for a living?


Manages a bar.


----------



## EWSplow

Philbilly2 said:


> Just member that unemployment does not pay any benefits...


Her employer was covering her health insurance, etc.


----------



## Philbilly2

EWSplow said:


> Her employer was covering her health insurance, etc.


That is what I am implying. Just cause the dollar figure on unemployment plus the $600 could be more on cash value on paper, but you can't forget that with PPP, you still get your benefits paid if you have them from your employer.


----------



## jomama45

EWSplow said:


> Manages a bar.


One of those good old corner South side bars with pickled pork hocks and turkey gizzards in a jar?


----------



## EWSplow

jomama45 said:


> One of those good old corner South side bars with pickled pork hocks and turkey gizzards in a jar?


No, sorry. Those are the best places. 
She works downtown. She's there from mid afternoon (they open at 4pm) until 9PM. 
Typical patrons are everything from bicycle messengers to judges.


----------



## Ajlawn1

EWSplow said:


> No, sorry. Those are the best places.
> She works downtown. She's there from mid afternoon (they open at 4pm) until 9PM.
> Typical patrons are everything from bicycle messengers to judges.


She got a PPP check? What do you mean, did the bar owner say hey got my PPP so your next check is coming out of that...???


----------



## Randall Ave

jomama45 said:


> One of those good old corner South side bars with pickled pork hocks and turkey gizzards in a jar?


Where are we going?


----------



## EWSplow

Ajlawn1 said:


> She got a PPP check? What do you mean, did the bar owner say hey got my PPP so your next check is coming out of that...???


Zactly.


----------



## Ajlawn1

EWSplow said:


> Zactly.


So I assume he's just paying her for not working...? But never said how much...


----------



## jomama45

Randall Ave said:


> Where are we going?


Yes!


----------



## EWSplow

Ajlawn1 said:


> So I assume he's just paying her for not working...? But never said how much...


Something like that. 
Kinda tricky, because her hours vary week to week and she spends some time behind the bar, so there's tips. She covers for people who call in sick, or late, etc. 
I'm guessing the owner is still trying to figure put how much he can pay her legitimately too.


----------



## jomama45

EWSplow said:


> No, sorry. Those are the best places.
> She works downtown. She's there from mid afternoon (they open at 4pm) until 9PM.
> Typical patrons are everything from bicycle messengers to judges.


Ok,gotcha. Silk was going to be my second guess............


----------



## EWSplow

jomama45 said:


> Ok,gotcha. Silk was going to be my second guess............


Maybe 10 years ago 
She's in good shape for 52, but...


----------



## EWSplow

jomama45 said:


> Yes!


When


----------



## JMHConstruction

More of a question for my CPA...buuuuutt....anyone know if 1099 subs are part of the forgiveness, or does it need to be employee payroll?


----------



## jomama45

JMHConstruction said:


> More of a question for my CPA...buuuuutt....anyone know if 1099 subs are part of the forgiveness, or does it need to be employee payroll?


I don't believe so, only legitimate payroll employees. There's a few other options through the SBA though that aren't based off of payroll .


----------



## jomama45

EWSplow said:


> When


Ok!


----------



## cwren2472

JMHConstruction said:


> More of a question for my CPA...buuuuutt....anyone know if 1099 subs are part of the forgiveness, or does it need to be employee payroll?


I'd have to find the application again but I'm 90% sure it said that 1099ed contractors ARE allowed to be included in the payroll total. But if you haven't filed yet, it's probably way, way too late anyway.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> I'd have to find the application again but I'm 90% sure it said that 1099ed contractors ARE allowed to be included in the payroll total. But if you haven't filed yet, it's probably way, way too late anyway.


I thought they just rolled another $350 billion off the printing presses for this?


----------



## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> I thought they just rolled another $350 billion off the printing presses for this?


They did - I posted a link somewhere to an article claiming it was already accounted for due to the backlog. That said, as of yesterday the SBA was creating a window during which only small banks could log into their system so i guess they think it is still worth applying.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> They did - I posted a link somewhere to an article claiming it was already accounted for due to the backlog. That said, as of yesterday the SBA was creating a window during which only small banks could log into their system so i guess they think it is still worth applying.


Oh


----------



## Randall Ave

Mark Oomkes said:


> I thought they just rolled another $350 billion off the printing presses for this?


I have been trying to get in for two days, still failing.


----------



## Randall Ave

JMHConstruction said:


> More of a question for my CPA...buuuuutt....anyone know if 1099 subs are part of the forgiveness, or does it need to be employee payroll?


I would think not, they would have to apply on their own, as I have read it anyway.


----------



## Philbilly2

JMHConstruction said:


> More of a question for my CPA...buuuuutt....anyone know if 1099 subs are part of the forgiveness, or does it need to be employee payroll?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> View attachment 203502


So....yes?


----------



## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> So....yes?


jeezz... let me get the crayons out... :laugh:


----------



## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> So....yes?


A definitive "maybe"


----------



## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> So....yes?





cwren2472 said:


> A definitive "maybe"


Or could even be a "hard no"?


----------



## cwren2472

Philbilly2 said:


> Or could even be a "hard no"?


Maybe.


----------



## WMHLC

1099 people have to apply for themselves and business owner can only apply for employees that are on your annual payroll form 940 and 1st qtr 941. I'm a full time 1099 sub contractor as a mortgage broker and I received my PPP loan yesterday. So yes 1099 people can get. If your 1099 you need to provide your 1099-misc and a copy of the all the checks you received for 1st quarter 2020. Overall it was a very pain less process and I just had to provide a couple documents. I applied with paypal on 4-24 and received the deposit yesterday. Took about 5 mins and never talked to a person, Kind of crazy. My boss at the mortgage company has been given the run around and has been denied 3 times apply with banks, so I honestly think its best to apply online with a Fintech company like Paypal or Kabbage. If you have all the forms already, its a very simple process.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

And the catch. This came from our accountant, we're checking with our banker.


----------



## EWSplow

Mark Oomkes said:


> And the catch. This came from our accountant, we're checking with our banker.
> 
> View attachment 203613


So, the free money isn't free? 
Kinda like freetime...


----------



## plow4beer

Mark Oomkes said:


> And the catch. This came from our accountant, we're checking with our banker.
> 
> View attachment 203613


I received that on Friday...from my banker. It comes as no surprise to me....this is pretty much what I was saying would/could happen all along. Oh well, I'm ballz deep at this point, so just gonna roll with it. I just hope the strip clubs stay closed until my 8weeks is up


----------



## prezek

Mark Oomkes said:


> And the catch. This came from our accountant, we're checking with our banker.
> 
> View attachment 203613


So if you didn't try to get a loan through every bank in your area, or call your aunt sally to see if she'd front you a few thousand, the loan won't be forgiven? Pretty vague like everything else.


----------



## cwren2472

prezek said:


> So if you didn't try to get a loan through every bank in your area, or call your aunt sally to see if she'd front you a few thousand, the loan won't be forgiven? Pretty vague like everything else.


While I have no trust of the government, I dont really think they are trying to weasel out of every loan - I think that clause is a direct result of the negative publicity of Shakeshack and the like - now, if another big company ends up on the 6 o'clock news, they will have an easy out to deny the loan


----------



## jomama45

Mark Oomkes said:


> And the catch. This came from our accountant, we're checking with our banker.
> 
> View attachment 203613


Well, I hate to be the "told you so guy", but I did try to talk Phil into not taking it........

I guess I'll be talking to my lawyer tomorrow for guidance........:hammerhead:


----------



## BossPlow2010

prezek said:


> So if you didn't try to get a loan through every bank in your area, or call your aunt sally to see if she'd front you a few thousand, the loan won't be forgiven? Pretty vague like everything else.


Not the first time they changed the rules halfway through either.


----------



## snoboss

Thumbs Up


snoboss said:


> My understanding is you can apply for an sba loan and $ 10000.00 does not have to be paid back. After $25000 they are going to line up your collateral for your loan. The whole (SETUP) reminds me of the movie WAR GAMES where at the end of the movie the computer comes up with the best solution... "The only way to win is NOT to play"


----------



## Philbilly2

jomama45 said:


> Well, I hate to be the "told you so guy", but I did try to talk Phil into not taking it........
> 
> I guess I'll be talking to my lawyer tomorrow for guidance........:hammerhead:






jomama45 said:


> Yes, I would, and do. Maybe I'm naive, but this is exactly what the PPP was meant for, not the huge public traded jerks ( and colleges) that took it and don't need it.
> 
> I had an opportunity to meet with the CEO of the local bank I use the same day I got my loan papers approved. (Thankfully, he needs a new garage floor and the timing was perfect!) I've known him and his family for years as customers, and he's been in the loan side of the banking industry for 40+years. He was pretty clear that all of the "loan" would be forgiven, assuming you followed the relatively simple guidelines. I was apprehensive at first because there was so much different information floating around.


you sure do have a weird way of talking someone out of something...


----------



## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> And the catch. This came from our accountant, we're checking with our banker.
> 
> View attachment 203613


sounds like a bunch more open ended, non informative, ring around the rosey horse hockey...

I wish I was surprised that it is another garbage statement of "we might.. or might not..."


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> sounds like a bunch more open ended, non informative, ring around the rosey horse hockey...
> 
> I wish I was surprised that it is another garbage statement of "we might.. or might not..."


From our banker:

_I wish I could give you more direction. Still awaiting firm guidance from the SBA. I don't believe your business will have any issue having your 8-week payroll and the related eligible expense qualify as PPP loan forgiveness. Your company was negatively impacted by COVID._


----------



## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> From our banker:
> 
> _I wish I could _*or could not *_give you more direction. Still awaiting firm _*yet loose*_ guidance from the SBA. I don't _*and do*_ believe your business will have any issue having your 8-week payroll and the related eligible expense qualify _*and or not qualify *_as PPP loan forgiveness. Your company was negatively _*and not negatively*_ impacted by COVID._


Fixed it for him... :laugh:

Tell him he is doing it all wrong... you got to learn to talk language of the covid...


----------



## cwren2472

Philbilly2 said:


> you got to learn to talk language of the covid...


Then the 8 week period should have been "really 12 weeks due to weekend surges and/or changes in calendar reporting."


----------



## Mark Oomkes

https://justthenews.com/government/...-stimulus-loans-wont-be-subject-federal-audit


----------



## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> https://justthenews.com/government/...-stimulus-loans-wont-be-subject-federal-audit


There you go

"Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has said that forgivable loans above the $2 million threshold would be subject to a full audit as a way to spot potential fraud or inaccuracies on loan applications." - e.g., companies with half a *billion *dollars in cash reserves saying they are in "desperate need" of $10M in federal bailout funds to stay afloat.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> There you go
> 
> "Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has said that forgivable loans above the $2 million threshold would be subject to a full audit as a way to spot potential fraud or inaccuracies on loan applications." - e.g., companies with half a *billion *dollars in cash reserves saying they are in "desperate need" of $10M in federal bailout funds to stay afloat.


I guess I might be in trouble then...I have at least a half billion in cash reserves.....of Monopoly money.


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## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> I guess I might be in trouble then...I have at least a half billion in cash reserves.....of Monopoly money.


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> Fixed it for him... :laugh:
> 
> Tell him he is doing it all wrong... you got to learn to talk language of the covid...


Yes


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## Philbilly2

makes me wonder how they determine "if covid affected your business"

For many of us, we will not feel the pain till long after everyone is back at work. I am getting paid for much work done in 2019 right now... Just got a retainer check from a project we finished in winter of 2018... right now...

So if they just look at dollar balances... the pain will not show on a ledger till long after the virus unicorn makes this all go away for many...


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## EWSplow

Philbilly2 said:


> makes me wonder how they determine "if covid affected your business"
> 
> For many of us, we will not feel the pain till long after everyone is back at work. I am getting paid for much work done in 2019 right now... Just got a retainer check from a project we finished in winter of 2018... right now...
> 
> So if they just look at dollar balances... the pain will not show on a ledger till long after the virus unicorn makes this all go away for many...


I'm kinda in your situation. Still collecting for February snow and work done in March. I still have receivables from 2019.
So far, I've got contracts through August. 
My biggest fear is not having working capital this fall.


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## EWSplow

I heard a story from a guy. 
He's knows someone who was homeless. They cleared out tent city and found homes for almost everyone. This guy got a rent free apartment and recently received a stimulus check. From what I've heard, he hasn't worked or filed taxes in years.


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## cwren2472

EWSplow said:


> I heard a story from a guy.
> He's knows someone who was homeless. They cleared out tent city and found homes for almost everyone. This guy got a rent free apartment and recently received a stimulus check. From what I've heard, he hasn't worked or filed taxes in years.


You say that like "working" or "paying taxes" is some sort of requirement prior to getting money from the government. What country is Milwaukee in?


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## EWSplow

cwren2472 said:


> You say that like "working" or "paying taxes" is some sort of requirement prior to getting money from the government. What country is Milwaukee in?


Poland


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> makes me wonder how they determine "if covid affected your business"
> 
> For many of us, we will not feel the pain till long after everyone is back at work. I am getting paid for much work done in 2019 right now... Just got a retainer check from a project we finished in winter of 2018... right now...
> 
> So if they just look at dollar balances... the pain will not show on a ledger till long after the virus unicorn makes this all go away for many...


April '20 might be our best month ever. We invoiced all our seasonal customers, collected 1/2 from our residentials and had very little in expenses.

Bank account looks better than it did all winter...well, what winter there was. Even without the PPP deposit showing in QB.


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## Mr.Markus

It is shaping up to be a very busy summer.
All my weekend customers are isolating at their "cottages" and coming up with some lucrative extras...


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## JMHConstruction

I never read too much into the loan, but what prevents someone from getting the PPP loan, and writing 75% of it to themselves as a payroll check and having it forgiven? Do those of you that got it have to prove what employee got what?

I heard something like you have 6 months to show where the money went, but didn't hear what the requirements were.


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## seville009

JMHConstruction said:


> I never read too much into the loan, but what prevents someone from getting the PPP loan, and writing 75% of it to themselves as a payroll check and having it forgiven? Do those of you that got it have to prove what employee got what?
> I heard something like you have 6 months to show where the money went, but didn't hear what the requirements were.


This is a pretty good article- may help

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonb...hould-do-after-receiving-a-loan/#50e9b8836170


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## Mark Oomkes

Looks like @Philbilly2 will probably be the only one that has to worry about the PPP thing.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05 13 20.pdf

Only if you received over $2 mil...


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## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> Looks like @Philbilly2 will probably be the only one that has to worry about the PPP thing.
> 
> https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05 13 20.pdf
> 
> Only if you received over $2 mil...


Our banker explained that they are still responsible for approving the loan forgiveness and verifying the documentation provided (payroll records, etc.) at that time - the only difference is whether or not the SBA actually gets involved in deciding forgiveness.


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## cwren2472

Our Bank of America banker told us that we were "very lucky" that they didn't submit our application until late since a lot of other companies "got their loans early but couldn't reopen to bring back employees and use the funds due to shutdowns"

So, apparently we are supposed to send her a fruit basket as a thank you for procrastinating on our loan app? Quite the way to put spin on that.


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Looks like @Philbilly2 will probably be the only one that has to worry about the PPP thing.
> 
> https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05 13 20.pdf
> 
> Only if you received over $2 mil...


Sorry bud... don't fit in that category... small potatoes here...


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Looks like @Philbilly2 will probably be the only one that has to worry about the PPP thing.
> 
> https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05 13 20.pdf
> 
> Only if you received over $2 mil...





cwren2472 said:


> Our banker explained that they are still responsible for approving the loan forgiveness and verifying the documentation provided (payroll records, etc.) at that time - the only difference is whether or not the SBA actually gets involved in deciding forgiveness.


My banker sent me this yesterday outlining question #46


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## Mark Oomkes

From my accountant:

As of Friday, President Trump signed the law that cleared changes to the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) that allows small business more flexibility in using the loan proceeds received. This will allow businesses more time to meet the requirements in order to qualify for loan forgiveness.

Some highlights to the loan changes are below:


Extending the time period from *8 weeks to 24 weeks* or the end of the year 2020, whichever comes first to spend the money
Give some (see below) borrowers until December 31, 2020 to restore reduced staffing levels instead of June 30, 2020
(Under the modified terms, if borrowers document that they were unable to restore business levels from before February 15, 2020 because of having to follow federal requirements for sanitization or social distancing, they will be covered.)


Repayment time extended from 2 years to 5 years This would only apply to PPP loans made after this measure was passed, but borrowers and lenders will be able to agree to extend existing loans.
Reduction of payroll costs from *75% to 60%* and increase of non-payroll costs (utilities, rent, transportation) to *40% from 25%.* It also includes a trap that if you don't have 60% in payroll costs, the updated law has a caveat that *none* of the loan proceeds will be forgivable!
PPP loan deadline to apply from June 30, 2020 to December 31, 2020


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## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> From my accountant:
> 
> As of Friday, President Trump signed the law that cleared changes to the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) that allows small business more flexibility in using the loan proceeds received. This will allow businesses more time to meet the requirements in order to qualify for loan forgiveness.
> 
> Some highlights to the loan changes are below:
> 
> 
> Extending the time period from *8 weeks to 24 weeks* or the end of the year 2020, whichever comes first to spend the money
> Give some (see below) borrowers until December 31, 2020 to restore reduced staffing levels instead of June 30, 2020
> (Under the modified terms, if borrowers document that they were unable to restore business levels from before February 15, 2020 because of having to follow federal requirements for sanitization or social distancing, they will be covered.)
> 
> 
> Repayment time extended from 2 years to 5 years This would only apply to PPP loans made after this measure was passed, but borrowers and lenders will be able to agree to extend existing loans.
> Reduction of payroll costs from *75% to 60%* and increase of non-payroll costs (utilities, rent, transportation) to *40% from 25%.* It also includes a trap that if you don't have 60% in payroll costs, the updated law has a caveat that *none* of the loan proceeds will be forgivable!
> PPP loan deadline to apply from June 30, 2020 to December 31, 2020


That's really good for restaurants and those who have been closed still or working with minimal staff... I think we've burned it up this week...

I thought they were saying could be a tough sell for that to pass and another stimulus check due to the new jobs report...


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## Philbilly2

So has anyone received any guidance on the forgiveness yet or filed anything yet?


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## cwren2472

Philbilly2 said:


> So has anyone received any guidance on the forgiveness yet or filed anything yet?


BoA said we should be getting forms within the next few weeks


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> So has anyone received any guidance on the forgiveness yet or filed anything yet?


From the government?


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## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> So has anyone received any guidance on the forgiveness yet or filed anything yet?


I'm still wondering where our $3400 stimulus check/debit card is...


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## Randall Ave

Ajlawn1 said:


> I'm still wondering where our $3400 stimulus check/debit card is...


You wanted that?


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## the Suburbanite

Randall Ave said:


> You wanted that?


Fireworks


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## plow4beer

Philbilly2 said:


> So has anyone received any guidance on the forgiveness yet or filed anything yet?


Talked to my banker today, said he's hoping in the next couple weeks we can start the forgiveness process. Just waiting for the final "rules" to be sent.


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## Ajlawn1

Randall Ave said:


> You wanted that?


Heck yeah... I bought a 6 oh cuz of this crap...


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## Philbilly2

Ajlawn1 said:


> I'm still wondering where our $3400 stimulus check/debit card is...


You have a pool right????


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## Randall Ave

Philbilly2 said:


> You have a pool right????


He keeps wondering where the $3400.00 debit card is, he is married right?


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## prezek

Not sure why or if it matters, but Maryland just put out a list of any company that received 150k or more via the PPP...I found it odd for some reason that it was public knowledge.

https://patch.com/maryland/baltimor...and&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social


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## the Suburbanite

prezek said:


> Not sure why or if it matters, but Maryland just put out a list of any company that received 150k or more via the PPP...I found it odd for some reason that it was public knowledge.
> 
> https://patch.com/maryland/baltimor...and&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social


I can't remember where I read it, but it seemed in some areas the number published was the amount companies were deemed eligible for, not necessarily received. The article focused on a bakery that was approved for $2M and their customers/neighbors took a dim view of it, but in reality the company took little/no funding. They were pretty whizzed off they were listed.


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## seville009

prezek said:


> Not sure why or if it matters, but Maryland just put out a list of any company that received 150k or more via the PPP...I found it odd for some reason that it was public knowledge.
> 
> https://patch.com/maryland/baltimor...and&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social


Can look up all the States here

https://home.treasury.gov/policy-is...a-paycheck-protection-program-loan-level-data


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## Mark Oomkes

From our banker:

Regarding the PPP Forgiveness process question, Because Congress continues to amend the Forgiveness process, the *SBA is not prepared to accept loan forgiveness applications at this time*.

There's a shocker.


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## seville009

This article has a spot towards the end where you can search all ppp loans by business names

https://www.cnn.com/projects/ppp-business-loans/


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## Mark Oomkes

seville009 said:


> This article has a spot towards the end where you can search all ppp loans by business names
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/projects/ppp-business-loans/


Only starting at $150k.


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## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> Only starting at $150k.


I'm sure the non-greedy types who only requested enough to cover a Hellcat are relieved.

Those who wanted a Hellcat _and_ a Raptor though...


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## cwren2472

Just an FYI - we got our loan forgiveness application from BoA yesterday, last night, after hours - and it says it expires today. Not sure if thats true, but I guess i know what we are working on this morning.


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## Ajlawn1

cwren2472 said:


> Just an FYI - we got our loan forgiveness application from BoA yesterday, last night, after hours - and it says it expires today. Not sure if thats true, but I guess i know what we are working on this morning.


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## seville009

cwren2472 said:


> Just an FYI - we got our loan forgiveness application from BoA yesterday, last night, after hours - and it says it expires today. Not sure if thats true, but I guess i know what we are working on this morning.


If you're looking at the date at the top right of the form, I think that's just the form revision date.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-10/PPP -- Loan Forgiveness FAQs (October 13, 2020).pdf


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## cwren2472

seville009 said:


> If you're looking at the date at the top right of the form, I think that's just the form revision date.
> 
> https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-10/PPP -- Loan Forgiveness FAQs (October 13, 2020).pdf


Whoops - you are correct - guess that's what I get for not reading the FAQ

Good thing you posted that before we called BoA screaming and shouting


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## cwren2472

Our accountant made us aware of a second round on the PPP program as part of the new stimulus package. Catch this time is that it only applies to businesses that can show that their revenues declined at least 25% in 2nd quarter 2020 vs 2nd quarter 2019
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ws...opening-whats-different-this-time-11608645691


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## Ajlawn1

cwren2472 said:


> Our accountant made us aware of a second round on the PPP program as part of the new stimulus package. Catch this time is that it only applies to businesses that can show that their revenues declined at least 25% in 2nd quarter 2020 vs 2nd quarter 2019
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ws...opening-whats-different-this-time-11608645691


So you're saying I need to change some dates on some QB invoices...?


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