# Questions about the Timbrens



## Roger Dodger (Nov 8, 2002)

I would be sad if wyldman didn't respond here since he seems to support Timbrens in many threads. My questions are this:
1. To me, it looks as if they merely control sag; if so then
I wonder if the ride is harsh or a limited suspension travel from such a device whether the plow is on or off the truck? The last thing I need is a stiffer ride since the truck is factory setup for 8800lb GVWR and includes the higher number front coil springs as part of the plow prep pkg..

I was going to install the Daystar front leveling kit to boost 2" which would offset the bit of droop from the plow. The droop isn't too bad since there are #38 (passenger) #39(driver) coil springs on the truck now. 
2. A front end alignment doesn't appear to be necessary from the Timbrens versus the leveling kit... right?

Any feedback on the better way to go between the two? Thanks.


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## HerkFE (May 13, 2002)

I have had Timbrens on two of my trucks, both Ford F-250's. You are correct, they really only provide sag control, however that is exactly what I was looking for. Without a plow on the suspension is unaffected, but mount the plow and the front of my trucks would dip, as anyone would expect. By installing the Timbrens I offset the effects of the plow weight for a ride height that was virtually the same as without the plow. I believe it really helped to save the springs/suspension and steering components on my trucks. For their minimal cost and super ease of installation I think they are one of the best products a truck can use when carrying a plow.


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

Besides just controlling sag, they make the truck ride a great deal better with the plow on and raised. When driving down the street hitting bumps in the road, the truck feels much more stable and doesnt bounce up and down uncontrollably. With the plow off, the original ride is unaffected, rides the same way it did before. This of course is all true with my particular truck. I cant say what the affects would be for a Dodge or Ford, or even a different Chevy truck for that matter. In my oppinion, they were well worth the money spent on them. Mike :waving:


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## GMC99 (Sep 6, 2002)

I just installed a set on my 2500 ram, really easy to put on, with the plow raised you can't see a difference from normal. I actually think the truck rides better when the plows off, whenever Id hit a bump in the road before i installed them my coffee would be all over the place, after i installed them it dosen't do it anymore! And comparing the price of other load systems, the $150 dollars I spent was tons cheaper.


:redbounce - Doin the snow dance LOL


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## Roger Dodger (Nov 8, 2002)

Dodge Ram 2500 Timbren install instructions seem pretty easy and forward. I guess I was concerned about them not allowing the coils to compress enough and place strain on the remainder of the system, not knowing how stiff the Aeon rubber compound is. I was hoping to help lift the front end even without the plow using the 2" front leveling kit, but then that just might negate the purpose of the Timbrens since they are supposed to have a certain amount of clearance to the axle housing according to Timbren's webpage on pick-up trucks.

That's good to hear about the limited bounce to the front end. I know all about the sloshing coffee!!


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Sorry it took so long to respond Roger,I've been busy.

The Timbrens are not only to help control sag.In fact on some trucks,they don't help with sag at all.They are more to prevent bottoming and improve handing.When stacking the front end is put under tremendous stress,it will even bottom out sometimes.The Timbrens help keep the front end up,and the front end geometry correct.This saves wear and tear on the front end and drive axle components.They are also a big help on big bumps and train tracks,as they help prevent bottoming.

The Timbrens are also very progressive,and won't affect ride quality much.They will improve handling and body roll though.The main reason they don't affect the ride,is they only really affect the suspension during the lower half of it's travel.When the suspension rebounds,the Timbrens aren't really lifting up on the truck past normal ride height,so it won't "top out" like a stiffer spring or airbag will.The stiffer spring,or airbags,continue to push the truck up during the entire suspension travel during rebound,and can make for a harsh ride.Kinda like those lowered cars you see bouncing down the road,or a GM IFS with the torsion bars cranked up too far.Stiffer shock with more rebound damping can be used to control this,but they also affect ride quality.

On your truck,if you want to level it out,you can use the coil spring spacers,and still use the Timbrens.You just need to add a spacer to drop them down the same amount as your lift.

The install is very easy,but you need a welder.You pry out the old bumpstops,and weld in a round plate which the Timbrens bolt to.You can then fab up a piece of pipe,or rectangular tubing to act as a spacer if you have the coil spring spacers.I wouldn't recommend welding this in unless your 100% sure your going to keep the coil spring spacers.It's better to weld a bolt into the top to screw into the Timbren mount,and then weld a nut in the bottom to mount the Timbrens.If you need more details,let me know.

The coil spring spacers will not correct any of the sag or droop associated with the plow.It will make the truck sit higher in the front,but it will sag the exact same amount when the plow is raised.Only heavier front springs will reduce the sag.An alignment is necessary after installing any spacer or lift,as the front axle will sit lower,and the caster will be reduced some.A Dodge without enough caster is a recipe for trouble.You get a real bad death wobble.Trust me,you don't want to go there. 

The Timbrens do not require an alignment,as they don't affect the stock ride height.

So I'd install the Timbrens first,and see how you like it.If it still sags too much,then you need heavier springs.Get the spring codes off of yours to see what you have.If you then want to level the truck out,you can add the coil spacers,and extend the Timbren mounts.

If you really don't like the Timbrens,I'll buy them back from you,as I have no problem selling them to my customers here.


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## Roger Dodger (Nov 8, 2002)

Hey thanks wyldman- just the detailed response I was looking for. You didn't let me down! 

I was hesitant about the Daystar levelers as it is, since it appears to be a band-aid fix for leveling out the front end. I'll likely add the Timbrens with plowing in mind. The Daystars would also affect my weight distributing setup, requiring readjustment of everything. Not that that's too much, just another thing to have to fuss with! I think I mentioned about the coils- passenger #38, driver is #39. I believe the next step up is used on the diesel models to support that motor weight. While there isn't a rediculous amount of front-end sag, I guess I was expecting less droop being a 8800 GVW truck when I noticed that the rear dropped 3¼" when hauling exactly 2000lbs. which isn't too bad if you think about it. Meantime, I have a set of 4 Reflex shocks on order for the 8800GVW rating to replace the 18Kmi. factory crud, and that should minimize the famous "Ram pitch & roll" routine! The shocks and the Timbrens should hopefully make a noticable difference. 

Hey thanks for the reply in my "Purging Air from Cylinders" thread as well. I understood your advice pretty well up to the point where reconnecting the hoses and running the system back & forth is going to purge remaining air from it. With a closed system, where is this air escaping from... the front packing in the rams? One angling ram hose has a very slight bulge at the fitting so I'm going to take that as a warning to replace it now and not during a snow storm! It sounds like as long as I keep the reservoir from sucking air, things shouldn't be a problem. Manually swinging the blade right & then left should expel the ram cylinders of old fluid while reattaching the new hoses to the cylinder that I just compressed to reduce entry of air-- correct? Then onto the other cylinder... the same procedure. Then operate the system fully sealed and up to snuff, with topped off fluid, to purge any remaining air?


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Yeah,that's pretty much it.When you compress the ram,there isn't a lot of space left inside for air.Then you reconnect that hose,and use the pump to extend it and fill it with fluid.Repeat for the other side.When you work the plow back and forthWhat little air is left in there will find it's way up to the highest point (the pump unit),and work it's way out.It may take a bit of angling,but it will come out.


The plow prep gassers come with the 038/039 spring setup.The diesels get a 039/046 setup.I usually recommend the 047/048 springs for an upgrade on the diesels,and the 046/047 springs for a gasser.

Try the Timbrens first though,and then decide on the springs.


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## Roger Dodger (Nov 8, 2002)

Hey Chris, I was under the truck this weekend installing the shocks and noticed the factory rubber stop bumps up front. Each has two holes in them that I assume has a screw or bolt up in there somewhere? Not easy to see or even access it, especially on the pumpkin side... very little clearance for tools and a hand! What socket or tool is used to remove the old rubber stops since I assume the nut is inside the frame and not accessible. Or is the frame drilled and tapped?

I dunno about this idea! I've already got a pretty large vocabulary of choice words that's accumulated over the years from wrenching on vehicles!!:realmad:


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

They are just pressed in,no bolts at all.Just pry them out .


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## Roger Dodger (Nov 8, 2002)

No, not the rubber stops themselves but the oval, steel cup that holds them. How does that get removed so the new Timbrens can be installed?


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

You don't remove the steel cup,it stays in place.The Timbrens have a spacer that fits up inside the cup.Then there is a big round plate that goes over the cup to support the Timbren.I usually run a bead of weld across the cup and plate,so they stay in place.


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