# Smoking in trucks?



## firstclasslawn (Sep 5, 2005)

Do you let your employees smoke in your trucks?


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## CrazyCooter (Jan 29, 2005)

No, they have to be on fire to be in the trucks (badadda boom)



firstclasslawn said:


> Do you let your employees smoke in your trucks?


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## gpin (Dec 5, 2003)

I have two employees who take an allowance instead of a company truck so they can smoke in their trucks. I pay them 75% of what a lease on a 2wd Chevy 2500 w/ auto and A/C would cost, plus $100/month for gas and $100/month for insurance. Idiots, but they are saving me $ and reducing my headaches.


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## mickman (Jan 24, 2001)

I do, only because I smoke. But the first of the year, I'm quitting.
So you know what that means......NO SMOKING!


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## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

I don't smoke, have employees, or drive, but my answer would be NO NO NO SMOKING!


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## 04superduty (Jan 9, 2004)

my work doesnt allow it. the smell and ash gets everywhere in a truck and will never come out. and of course resale value can drop when your truck smells like a dirty diaper.


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## Jpocket (Nov 7, 2005)

If i was running a fleet of older trucks then sure they could smoke, but not if im running a fleet of 98-05 trucks


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## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

I worked for a sizeable farm and the owner hated smoking. One day his insurance company told the guy he would save $1200 a year if he banned smoking on the entire premises. So he did it.

Now all the smokers have to get in their car, drive 1/4-1/2 km to the driveway and smoke.


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## grassmanvt (May 27, 2004)

When I have employees no one is allowed to smoke in a vehicle or on a customers property. Well, thats how its supposed to be although I always seemed to find butts on properties later. I would bet that when I wasn't with them they also lit up in the truck as well. I try not to hire smokers anymore because of the experiences. I really hate the smell and litter produced.


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

Who the hell cares as long as they are working???? 

I let my guys smoke for the reason that they work hard and push their limits both physically and mentally every night for me.

If I didn't have them, I wouldn't be doing as good as I am today.

So unless it distracts them from their work, I let them smoke. Although, I do not allow it in front of a customer or outside of the truck on a customers property (i.e. shoveling, snowblowing, salting walks, etc)..


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Hell no...


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## exmark1 (Nov 30, 2005)

qualitylawncare said:


> Who the hell cares as long as they are working????
> 
> I let my guys smoke for the reason that they work hard and push their limits both physically and mentally every night for me.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more! Someone who "needs" a cigarette can become lazy or not as efficient if you don't let them have it! I allow smoking in all the older trucks and NEVER on a job site regardless of the circumstances! They know if I find one on the ground it's over and done with so it always ends up in the ash tray!


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## Gusco (Jan 24, 2005)

I smoke, They smoke, We all Smoke.

I dont mind. I lay canvass on my seats and put seat covers on them i have never had a burn go thru. I figure if they are going to smoke they might as well do it in the truck not at a "Rest stop" if ya know what i mean. Takes about 5-7 minutes for a smoke. add that up thru out a 12 hour day and you paid them quite a bit to screw off.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

I have no employees. But if I did and they smoked I wouldn't stop them from smoking in truck. If I was an employee and was told you do nice work (which I do) but no smoking in my truck, I would say bite me And do it anyway or stop every 5 minutes for a butt break. Gees Dave your taking a hell of alot longer to do job what gives. Hey need to stop to have cigarette.


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## 84deisel (Dec 2, 2003)

nonsmoking,preaching treehuggers.Welcome to the real world.Whats next no eating or drinking in the truck? I have seen pop do more damage than the occasional cigarette and spilled coffee is a mess also.I drive brand new trucks at work and if I want to smoke than I do .It has nothing to do with my job performance .Do you really have extra time in your day to check for butts on the ground? Whats next ,no farting in the truck? WTF!


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

84deisel said:


> Whats next ,no farting in the truck? WTF!


ROFLMAO


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## Mowerpan (Jan 31, 2005)

Not that I'm in a position to state my opinion as I'm young and have no employees, no buisness ect, but if I did I wouldn't allow smoking while on the job. I believe, like where i work, the smokers believe there entitled to their smoke brakes every 15 minutes, but if someone just walked up for 5 minutes and came back every 15 minutes would you put up with it? I hate the smell, I cough when I get a wiff of the smoke, it's gross, nasty expensive and I believe, from my experiences especially at work, that the smokers just use "Having" to smoke as an excuse to sit and do nothing, while us non smokers quickly take a sip of soda and get back to work. not a 5 minute brake every 15 minutes.


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## JTW (Sep 12, 2005)

84deisel said:


> Whats next ,no farting in the truck? WTF!


I could be in trouble then!!! lol


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## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

84deisel said:


> nonsmoking,preaching treehuggers.Welcome to the real world.Whats next no eating or drinking in the truck? I have seen pop do more damage than the occasional cigarette and spilled coffee is a mess also.I drive brand new trucks at work and if I want to smoke than I do .It has nothing to do with my job performance .Do you really have extra time in your day to check for butts on the ground? Whats next ,no farting in the truck? WTF!


It's not the burns, mess, etc... it's the smell that is extremely hard to get out.

A fart will be gone in 10 minutes, ciggerette smoke will lessen the value of a used vehicle just as much as the plow on the front of it.


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## golden arches (Oct 30, 2003)

Anyone who works for me represents me: Policy is no smoking while on company property or on the job.

Argument may be that sub-contractors can do what they want, but same policy.. they represent my company. 

I retired from a major ($12 Billion) service company with over 100,000 employees. That's where I learned the value of this policy. Our CEO - a smoker - initiated it for all employees. The company reason was mainly a health cost issue, but external survey's showed that it help build a positive view of the company - even with smoking clients.


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## Mainiac (Sep 16, 2004)

I let my Summer help blow Marlboros in between lawns, but no farting when I'm in the truck too!
Course I have older trucks that I would NEVER sell.


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## CrazyCooter (Jan 29, 2005)

crazymike said:


> It's not the burns, mess, etc... it's the smell that is extremely hard to get out.
> 
> A fart will be gone in 10 minutes, ciggerette smoke will lessen the value of a used vehicle just as much as the plow on the front of it.


A fart will be gone in 10 minutes? You certinaly don't want to buy my truck, I get in the truck in the am and wonder, "WHATS THAT SMELL?"... Oh, that's the fart from the day before.... It's that bad. Down go the windows....


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## jglandscaping (Dec 31, 2004)

golden arches said:


> Anyone who works for me represents me: Policy is no smoking while on company property or on the job.QUOTE]
> 
> I allow my Dad to smoke in my 96, and because he smokes he cannot use the 05, I do not want it smelling like an ash tray. I do not allow my guys to smoke on job sites (respect for customers) or in the truck because people see us and do not want to give us a bad image. I do allow it when we are at the shop when we are DONE for the day, cleaning equipment and putting it stuff away.
> Thanks
> James


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Spilled pop and snacks don't stink.

No smoking in my trucks, regardless of age. I am a non-smoker and a (mild) asthmatic and I'll be damned if I want to sit in an ash tray... especially one I am paying for. If an employee wants a job, he will not smoke in my trucks or leave butts on people's property. Disobeying that simple request to me is grounds for being fired.

So far, I hire non-smokers. Smoking is a filthy habit.

And all you smokers who fire the flaming butt out the window while driving need a beating too--those of us who ride motorcycles don't appreciate being hit with them, nor does anyone appreciate your garbage being dumped. It sickens me to see people who throw the plastic wrapping from the pack out the window too--some people are so bad they don't even wait until no one is looking. Slobs!


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## CrazyCooter (Jan 29, 2005)

derekbroerse said:


> Spilled pop and snacks don't stink.
> 
> No smoking in my trucks, regardless of age. I am a non-smoker and a (mild) asthmatic and I'll be damned if I want to sit in an ash tray... especially one I am paying for. If an employee wants a job, he will not smoke in my trucks or leave butts on people's property. Disobeying that simple request to me is grounds for being fired.
> 
> So far, I hire non-smokers. Smoking is a filthy habit.


Somehow this makes me think of both Blues Brothers and Pulp Fiction at the same time.

"No, no! I will not take your filthy, stolen money!"

"Pigs root, and sleep, in sh!t. That's a filthy animal. I won't eat an animal that doesn't have enough sense to disregard its own feces."

Still paying for your trucks? What, you on the forty year plan?


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## Ken1zk (Dec 19, 2004)

I have no snow plow employees, but I would not allow it for one reason. Here in New York State we have the "smoke free work place law". Unless you run a cigar store no one can smoke at the workplace. This law extends to any company owned vehicles. 

That said, I am a smoker and since this law is not really enforced when it comes to company vehicles I would turn a blind eye to anyone smoking while working in the plow truck. If they can't smoke in the truck they will simply stop every 60 minutes or so for a "smoke break" and that equals a lot of lost production if the employee is paid hourly. Once you have mounted the sub frame on the truck you have thrown the resale out the window anyway, so why not let them smoke and keep them working. Just my 2 cents.
Ken


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

CrazyCooter said:


> Somehow this makes me think of both Blues Brothers and Pulp Fiction at the same time.
> 
> "No, no! I will not take your filthy, stolen money!"
> 
> ...


Yes, I still am paying for the trucks. Why, do you get all your parts, oil, tires, and fuel for free? Must be nice.

What part of "I am asthmatic" and "I also drive the trucks" are you not getting?

I also prefer that my drivers work at a more liesurely pace--not a vacation but I don't want animals for drivers either. I'd rather they didn't tear up equipment, so if that means an extra 5-10 mins every hour or two, so be it. Besides, there's always the need for a little quick shovelling...


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## CrazyCooter (Jan 29, 2005)

derekbroerse said:


> Yes, I still am paying for the trucks. Why, do you get all your parts, oil, tires, and fuel for free? Must be nice.
> 
> What part of "I am asthmatic" and "I also drive the trucks" are you not getting?
> 
> I also prefer that my drivers work at a more liesurely pace--not a vacation but I don't want animals for drivers either. I'd rather they didn't tear up equipment, so if that means an extra 5-10 mins every hour or two, so be it. Besides, there's always the need for a little quick shovelling...


Well, you mentioned you're still paying for them, so I'm assuming that you have monthy finance payments. By mentioning you're still paying for them, does this mean you've worked out a future deal with auto mechanics and the ESSO station to get the rest of the stuff taken care of in the future? 

I got the part about the "out of breath operator" since I didn't "refer" to "asthmatic" in any part of my "quote". That being said, I didn't say you had to let them smoke, or chew, or fart, in your trucks. Crazily enough, I know a lot of asthmatics that smoke. Guess they're trying to die extra early. Sides, as Mr. Leary said, "Who cares if I die early? The last years are the sh!ttiest anyway."

Even if they smoke outside the truck, they still stink when they get back in. It's a losing proposition anyway.

/likes quotes
//likes slashies more
///Who ordered this cold weather? All I asked for was snow...


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## WBH Grounds (Dec 13, 2005)

Our guys aren't supposed to, but they do anyhow. It's not a real big deal as long as certain big wigs here don't see it. Even though everybody knows it goes on.


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## Rappa (Dec 2, 2003)

If I ever tried to institute that rule, every guy would quit and go work for someone else. You mean to tell me, you have guys that are plowing 10-20-30 hours in a given storm, and they are not allowed to smoke?


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## plowman350 (Jul 19, 2004)

*Scheduled breaks*

We all know that by law an employee is entitled to a 15 minute break for every 4 hours worked. During that scheduled break they are allowed to step outside, and even leave the premisis. You may mandate that they cannot smoke on properties you service or in their truck. But, you legally can't prevent them from pulling into a parking lot and standing outside the truck to smoke.

Of course in the lawn/snow business we usually call the ride between jobs their scheduled "break." Problem is that if they are driving, and not allowed to stop somewhere, that doesn't allow them the break they must legally take. We all konw that there are NO breaks during a snowstorm.

So, my opinion: Designate a couple o your older trucks as smoking trucks and insist that they only smoke on the road between jobs. Who will see them at 3:00am anyways? Always give the smokers the older/stinky trucks.

BTW - you can't have a non-smoking only policy when you're hiring employees. They call that discrimination. what's next? No overweight people, no Led Zeppelin Fans, nobody with Brown Hair? Be careful.


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## golden arches (Oct 30, 2003)

plowman350 said:


> BTW - you can't have a non-smoking only policy when you're hiring employees. They call that discrimination. what's next? No overweight people, no Led Zeppelin Fans, nobody with Brown Hair? Be careful.


Plowman, there are several instances where the Federal Courts have upheld the rights of an employer to have a non smoking employment policy. Also, a major example in Michigan: Weyco, Inc has an agressive antismoking policy, including "testing" (which is excessive).

Example: US Case Law: Twenty years ago the Denver Federal Court of Appeals ruled a nonsmoking employment policy legal in the case of a fired Oklahoma City firefighter caught smoking off the job: "Federal appeals court upholds termination of firefighter for smoking; city had a policy of not hiring smokers" [Grusendorf v. City of Olahoma City, 816 F. 2d 539 (10th Cir. 1987)]. More recently, the Florida Supreme Court upheld the right of Government employers to refuse to hire smokers [North Miami (City of) v. Kurtz, 653 So.2d 1025, 10 IER Cases (BNA) 865 (Fla. 1995); cert.den. 116 S.Ct. [1995 FP 108-9]. In a related case, the courts have upheld a city's policy of refusing to hire tobacco users for firefighting positions, but noted that employers must bargain with the union over fitness standards. [International Association of Fire fighters Local 101 v. City of Duluth, St. Louis County District Court, No. 8720508, June 19, 1987]. (source: http://www.srnt.org/pubs/nl_02_05/policies.html)

More detailed and less legalistic is the research at http://www.theisonlawgroup.com/?News|1058 which refers to the Weyco policy.

"No overweight people" - police, fire, airlines etc all have weight restrictions in place today. Both for hiring and discharge. Whether we agree or not, there's ample basis in many states setting employment standards and policy.


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## 04superduty (Jan 9, 2004)

plowman350 said:


> BTW - you can't have a non-smoking only policy when you're hiring employees. They call that discrimination.


there is a local college that last year implemented a now smoking policy for new full time employees. so far no lawsuits because its not discrimination. there are a couple of other companies locally that are doing the same. it all boils down to heath care costs, the employer doesn't want to foot the bill for someone else's bad habit. 
the same college starting next year wont allow smoking within 50ft of any enterance. we will see how that goes.


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## Foxfire (Sep 25, 2003)

*Goverment*

Again there is the worthless goverment controlling our rights again:realmad:


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Why can smokers not realize how much they affect the people around them?? It ranges from mild disgust/dislike to outright killing them. If you want to kill yourself, do it in a bubble, but you do NOT have the right to kill the others around you. Plain and simple.

I've often figured that maybe one could make smokers understand that it STINKS by getting some skunk-extract in an aerosol can or something. Whenever you are stuck standing in a cloud of second hand smoke, just fire off the bottle in their direction. Maybe then they will start to understand just how it feels to have to smell like something you hate for the rest of the day. Maybe the stuff could be laced with something toxic too, let them feel what it is like to be short of breath or something...


Now, that being said, I do know some smokers who try to be as considerate as possible around others... I would say they are outnumbered at least 10 to 1, probably moreso. The smell is still in their clothes, but at least they walk away before they try to light up. 

We sold a mint, one-owner low mileage Camaro Z28 a while back. Spotless car, never ever smoked in. Three guys came along to look at it and take it for a test drive. Couldn't for the life of them understand why we made them finish their cigarettes before they got it. It came down to that it is still my car, and once they buy it if they want to ruin it, it is their perogative. But as long as that title has my name on it, there would be NO smoking in the car.

I mentioned this to my Dad yesterday (we had a long car ride to deal with) and he told me about this superintendant a level above him at GM, which all get company cars each year. Cars are sold off afterwards as 'miled out'. Told me this guy was a chain smoker, and that GM would have to totally clean the interior of the car and ALWAYS replace the driver's seat because it was always full of holes afterwards. They hated it but it was policy for this level to get a new car every year. Turned out even his own son wouldn't lend him his truck for the same reason.


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## Foxfire (Sep 25, 2003)

*Smoking*

Ill put it this way, The first time anyone tells me I cant smoke I hope for their sake they have good Insurance.....After that I will own a fleet of trucks, And I will add they will be smoked in, A plow lowers the resale value of a truck more than the smell of smoke...


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Foxfire said:


> Ill put it this way, The first time anyone tells me I cant smoke I hope for their sake they have good Insurance.....After that I will own a fleet of trucks, And I will add they will be smoked in, A plow lowers the resale value of a truck more than the smell of smoke...


Boy, you must have an amazing lawyer  that can turn a very fair company policy into a lawsuit. Everyone is entitled to breaks, they can smoke then. Until then, they are not allowed to smoke on the job AS PER ONTARIO LAW. Driving my truck is on the job. Maybe they would prefer it to be off the job? They can punch in and out between jobsites instead?


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## Steve Brubaker (Feb 1, 2005)

gpin said:


> I have two employees who take an allowance instead of a company truck so they can smoke in their trucks. I pay them 75% of what a lease on a 2wd Chevy 2500 w/ auto and A/C would cost, plus $100/month for gas and $100/month for insurance. Idiots, but they are saving me $ and reducing my headaches.


I rent a truck to an employee, he pays me 350.00 a month a truck payment and fixes anything that goes wrong with it and pays for all the gas and maintence.


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## cornbinder (Oct 16, 2005)

after reading all of these replies, i've just decided to go out and hop in my truck.... and FIRE ONE UP!!! and enjoy every last puff. that's just me though and i don't care if my employees smoke in my truck either. i respect the non smokers point too, if i were a non smoker i'd probably be the same way. until then... anybody want to join me and FIRE ONE UP, marlboro reds for me.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

plowman350 said:


> We all know that by law an employee is entitled to a 15 minute break for every 4 hours worked. During that scheduled break they are allowed to step outside, and even leave the premisis. You may mandate that they cannot smoke on properties you service or in their truck. But, you legally can't prevent them from pulling into a parking lot and standing outside the truck to smoke.


You might want to check some labor laws before you actually post things like this. This is not true, not in MI anyways, I have no idea about the other states. My attorney (who specializes in labor law) and HR company both have stated that employers are NOT required to give breaks every 4 hours. This is a misconception that the unions have imposed upon us.

I agree with you Derek. No smoking in MY trucks on MY time. I do not like the image that it portrays. You don't like it, work for somebody else. Your smoke breaks become excessive or productivity goes down because of smoking, you will be finding a new place to work.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

First off Unions didn't impose a falsehood of a 15 min. break every 4 hours. It used to be OSHA regulation that 4 hours of work implied a 15 minute break until Bush overturned that. In our contract we get one break and a lunch on our time. So your statement about Unions is false.....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Not in MI it isn't. The unions negotiated these breaks into contracts and everybody began to assume that it was law. It is not in MI, either DOL or OSHA. Bush had nothing to do with overturning it, it's always been assumed that it was 'the law'.

This wouldn't be an OSHA regulation anyways, because OSHA only regulates companies with 50 or more employees.


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## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

Hey I am new to the forum...but not to life nor business nor employees. I firmly believe that if it’s your property land, building, business or vehicle you make the rules. Employees should represent you well, and if the setting of the work area is diminished by smoking then you have a decision, as an owner, to make. I am not a smoker, cigarette, but I do love an occasional cigar (good Bourbon too) 

That said I am sooo tired of this total anti-smoking personal rights B.S. that is permeating this country. What’s next no smoking in your home, your car etc. Then it will be no drinking ever, no fatty foods, no fat people, no sugar etc. It is a very slippery slope. We are giving up way too many of our freedoms for the excuse of its healthy, its safer etc. This country was founded on the basis of personal freedoms...slowly but surely they are all being eroded away by the liberals...the excuse the gov't knows better than you.  :realmad: 

Sorry I just had to rant...too much plow time today.


Plow-Hard

SD-Dave


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

This is OSH Act of 1970:

_a) Each employer --

(1) shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees;

(2) shall comply with occupational safety and health standards promulgated under this Act.

29 USC 654 
(b) Each employee shall comply with occupational safety and health standards and all rules, regulations, and orders issued pursuant to this Act which are applicable to his own actions and conduct. _

The only exceptions I can find are Federal and State employees. Not trying to be a smartass but where does it say 50 or more employees? I will admit I was wrong about the break time, there is no regulation under the Fair Labor Standards Act but is done at the state level. But I would suspect that it would of been OSHA since that part of the DOL deals with safety so its not so far fetched.


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

I would like anyone to point out a documented case of anyone being harmed by second hand smoke. The only study done to date that is recognized by the government is the one with rats. That study locked a rat in a box and they pumped smoke into the box 24 x 7 until it died. No human case has been documented or proven to this date and this topic is only stirred by non-smoking libs who want to control you down to the color toilet paper we use. Insurance companies love it because yes it is healthier to not smoke and there is a small risk of fire. Besides the smell from cigs , cigars and pipes there is no danger to the average human and is only a nuisance The extreme asthma sufferer will have trouble around any and all smoke pollution and always have.

My dad smoked like a freaking ole coal burning heater. 5 packs a day and even while eating. The sob would even blow smoke in our faces as we ate or if we were in the same room. He did not die from it. None of my brother or sisters are dead. I'm not dead. Our pets always lived long lives as well. This topic is another intrusion into our lives and just one more small controlling arm of the politicians. It is also a money generator thanks to lawyers. When will we as a people stand up and say enough is enough. If you don't smoke I can respect that and all should, If you want no smoking in your work place that is also your right and anyone you hire knows the rules going in and can not ***** about it. But do not spend my tax money on laws to restrict my freedoms. 

I bet there are many here who grew up in a smoke filled house and turned out alright. If we were to believe all the studies on what is bad for us,i.e.smoke,red meat,milk,eggs,unfiltered water,seat belts,colored or dyed toilet paper,cell phone use,electro magnetic interference,walking and etc all...., it is amazing any of us are alive and walking.

I respect your rights, don't trample on mine. A dislike for something because of the smell should not be cause for any law.

Don't tread on me!


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

I don't need a government study to show that my airways close up sitting next to a smoker at a public place that every one has a right to go to. On that same token, I don't want you using up my tax dollars to pay for smokers' poor lifestyle choices when they get emphysema and cancer. More people die from smoking than car wrecks. 

I'm not saying you don't have the right to smoke your brains out on your property. Public places were people are disgusted by a filthy habit shouldn't have to put up with that. Nor should my tax dollars go to some chimney so they can get a power scooter w/ oxygen tank holder because of their choices.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Can't tell you right off hand where it says OSHA regulates 50 or more employee companies, but I know it is a fact. Anything under 50 is covered by MIOSHA here in MI.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

blade_masters said:


> I don't need a government study to show that my airways close up sitting next to a smoker at a public place that every one has a right to go to. On that same token, I don't want you using up my tax dollars to pay for smokers' poor lifestyle choices when they get emphysema and cancer. More people die from smoking than car wrecks.
> 
> I'm not saying you don't have the right to smoke your brains out on your property. Public places were people are disgusted by a filthy habit shouldn't have to put up with that. Nor should my tax dollars go to some chimney so they can get a power scooter w/ oxygen tank holder because of their choices.


Find it funny how you say public place everyone has right to go to. But then say what i can and cannot do in said public place. If you don't like the smoke go home.


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## sixspeed (Oct 22, 2004)

*Flsa*

The FLSA covers things such as overtime, breaks, etc:

http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/Title_29/Part_785/29CFR785.18.htm

Breaks are not legally mandatory and according to their web page this hasn't changed since 1941 and 1961...


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

blade_masters said:


> This is OSH Act of 1970:
> 
> _a) Each employer --
> 
> ...


_

Here is where you are contradicting yourself.

As both the employer AND employee of my own company, I therefore have the right to a workplace that is free from recognized hazards. Cigarettes are a recognized hazard in more ways than one. Therefore by OSHA standards, they have no place at work.

And as I have mentioned here before, it is illegal to smoke in public places in Ontario anyways.

Reaper, I'm sorry if my right to breathe seems to overrule your right to smell bad. You do not have the right to put me in the hospital hooked up in an oxygen tent. I can walk thru the smoggiest city for days and never have a problem, but cigarette smoke means I have to leave in a very short time frame. Some people are more susceptable to it than others. Part of the problem is that some people are physically allergic to tobacco--I know I am, it is on my record.

If you knew your friend was allergic to shellfish, would you take it by the handful and cram it down his throat? It isn't your right to. Smoking is no different, we don't have a choice--we need to breathe. Smoking within range of a person who is allergic to tobacco is no different than cramming shellfish into your friend and holding it there... both will end in death if not treated quickly.

I have an idea--what if I park a car out in front of your house, and crank up the bass on the stereo all day and night, 24/7? Make sure to change the type of music constantly, no pattern, so there is no way to get accustomed to it and sleep thru it. Since you couldn't sleep, you couldn't function and the quality of your life would be greatly diminished...let me guess--there should be a law against that? There is, of course, noise violations etc. But by your standing, if smoking is only a nuisance and doesn't cause physical harm and therefore should be no laws about it... I don't think that loud music causes great physical harm either, and is only a nuisance.

What about a dog crapping on your front doorstep every morning? Only a nuisance.

How about like I mentioned in one of my first posts--riding a motorcycle and getting a red-hot butt (fanned by the wind like a blacksmith's bellows) in the face or down your leathers? I'm sorry but I feel that being burned would qualify as physical harm rather than a nuisence too. The next smoker that does that to me on the highway is getting his door kicked in. It hurts, believe me.

Look, you people are being utterly ridiculous. Look at the numbers of this poll--the vast SILENT MAJORITY says no smoking in their vehicle. End of story. No one cares if you smoke at home. Just don't smoke around the rest of us.

This is a simple case of the smoker feeling that their rights are more important than everyone else's. Breathing is more important than smoking. Period.

Personally, I liked that doctor about a year ago who gave his patients like six monthes notice to quit smoking or find another doctor--said he was tired of wasting his time treating these people's self-inflicted diseases (from smoking). The result? Half these people were motivated to quit, and successfully did so. The others pissed and moaned and were trying to sue... figures. Never heard the outcome, if it had one yet. Personally, I applaud the man.

On a side note, a good friend of mine's dad just had most of his esophegus removed due to cancer this week. He hasn't smoked in about 30 years but has still be continuously exposed to it via second-hand smoke from his coworkers. So did he do it to himself? Or did his coworkers do it to him? Either way, his operation was paid for by my tax dollars, and the doctors said it was from smoke. He wasn't expected to live, but seems to be doing well._


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## sixspeed (Oct 22, 2004)

Bottom line is that smoking is not a legally protected activity nor are smokers a protected class so a person can regulate smoking in their vehicles as they see fit.
As for government regulation I know certain sexually transmitted diseases kill many and cost a lot yet the governmant does not regulate or restrict that activity... Just a thought on illegitimizing costly or dangerous behavior...
Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to be honest and objective...


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

No one is allergic to cigarette smoke.

Irritants in the air, including smoke from cigarettes, wood fires, or charcoal grills. Also, strong fumes or odors like household sprays, paint, gasoline, perfumes, and scented soaps. Although people are not actually allergic to these particles, they can aggravate inflamed, sensitive airways.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

I have a physical allergy to tobacco--whether or not that translates into an allergy for the smoke or not I do not know. I may just be lucky, allergic to the stuff itself and asthmatic just for the extra slap.

Having read that article you just linked to--how can you possibly think it is ok to do this?

What Happens During an Asthma Episode?

During normal breathing, the airways to the lungs are fully open, allowing air to move in and out freely. But people with asthma have inflamed, super-sensitive airways. Their triggers cause the following airway changes, which in turn cause asthma symptoms:

The lining of the airways swell and become more inflamed 
Mucus clogs the airways 
Muscles tighten around the airways (bronchospasm) 
These changes narrow the airways until breathing becomes difficult and stressful, like trying to breathe through a straw stuffed with cotton.

You feel it is your right to cause these problems in the people around you?
If you do, then you are a really ignorant SOB. You should try breathing thru a straw stuffed with cotton for about 1/2 hr with no break, just to try it.


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## xeonpro (Jan 9, 2005)

PSDF350 said:


> If you don't like the smoke go home.


What gives you the right to say that? Why couldnt you be courteous and go home to smoke?????


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

Why should I have to go home because you don't like it. If it is a public place and smoking is allowed I will smoke. If it isn't I won't. By they way I am usually courteous about my smoking habits. But i'll be damned if I will let you or anyone else dictate to me where i can do something that is legal.


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## xeonpro (Jan 9, 2005)

I'm not saying your wrong. I was just pointing out the "if you dont like it go home" statement...and was saying it in my view. I dont know if smoking should be banned (unless it is scientifically proven to be a public health safety issue) but i believe that there should be "smoking areas" in places.

I was just giving your statement back to you in my view


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

Same here. I don't like the only smoke at home crap.

Honestly I don't think there is an answer. Unless it becomes illegal. Till then smokers have there rights to. I'm just glad I work for myself. Becuase I never was one for towing the line.


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## DaveOhio (Jul 23, 2000)

*Guess the thread's really not about snow removal anymore, huh?*

It's unfortunate some must result to name calling to make a point. It seems rude, especially from one concerned about "the diminishing quality of life in North America". Ignorant SOB? Crackhead? There is no place for this on Plowsite. I'm being groomed to be an assistant moderator, so I know.

You guys aren't going to agree this time, that's all. Doesn't mean the other guy's an idiot, though.

What I do find amazing, though, is the amount of time spent in Washington and Ottawa on anti-smoking legislation. THERE IS A WAR ON.

It's fashionably now to be anti-smoking. The tobacco companies have taken big hits. Gun makers have too. And alcohol is next. Blame Miller Beer for the traffic crash. It's not Anna's fault she drank 11 and did 3 shots…

It's weak to trot out a law book or "Call The Cops" all the time guys. And to argue so. Snow balling cars becomes "dropping things off overpasses" allowing operators to smoke in trucks they're in for long hours at all hours suddenly becomes severe asthma attacks. See a pattern here? Let's move on y'all!

David


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Well, David, since your posting was very obviously directed at me, I WILL take the time to respond.

Now, if you actually took half a moment to read my posting, you will note that I did not call anyone anything. What I said was:

"If you do (feel you have the right to cause the above listed horrible symptoms), then you are a really ignorant SOB."

That is not name-calling. No one, if asked that question directly, would say "Yes, I have the right to do that to anyone I want."

Along the same lines, I did not call you a Crackhead. I asked if you were on crack (a viable question in itself that could be answered with a simple yes or no answer), which is/was used as an expression--meaning the same as Are you Kidding? or Are You Out of Your Mind?

Now, you want to bring up the posting about snowballs. Ok, maybe you can explain to everyone why you think that one guy having his window broken and another needing surgery is just "Good Clean Fun". What a ridiculous thing to say. The one off the overpass was someone else trying to have good clean fun too. I'm sure you have heard the expression "Its all fun and games until someone loses an eye."

Anti-smoking has nothing to do with being 'fashionable' either. More and more people are realizing that smoking kills, and not just the person doing it, but the people around them as well. It also has to do with the non-smoker standing up for their right to breathe. If two people, a smoker and a non-smoker are sealed in a room together, who's rights are more important? A touchy question as you've read above. However, it really comes down to common sense. Both need to breathe to exist, so the non-smoker's right to breathe is equal to the smoker's and it does not affect him. Now the smoker wants to exercise his right to smoke as well, but that affects the non-smoker (who's breathing doesn't affect the smoker). Common sense tells us that the NEED to breathe is more important than the DESIRE to smoke.

Besides, if we were meant to smoke, we'd have a little chimney grown on the back of our heads.  


As a moderator, or assistant, you will need to remain neutrel and objective. You will also learn that Plowsite, like any other discussion forum, is a place of opinions, discussions, experiences, and passions, and while there may be occasional dispute, we are all one big happy family. Just like any other family, you won't like everyone in it.

Is it safe to assume that you are a smoker too?


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## DaveOhio (Jul 23, 2000)

Never started smoking, thankfully.

Never saw a snowball break glass. Ever. Never heard of broken glass til plowsite. Tall tale? me thinks so.

Derek you do not always need to take the "nuclear option" in these discussions.

By the way, drivers were allowed to smoke in truck 98. It's gone this year. No smoking in 01, 04, 05, or the Blazer. None of our drivers smoke anyway. Our landscapers do, and this thread has made me think about image and production.

Dave


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## firstclasslawn (Sep 5, 2005)

*This is True*

I read a quote today
"Isn't a smoking section in a building kinda like a pee-ing section in a pool"

Just thought it might make you guys laugh
- jon
ps- sorry about this, I started this thread, I was just wondering how many people allow the smoking in the trucks and how many don't


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

I love a good debate... I wouldn't call it the nuclear option.

Snow may not break glass, but ice can. So can snow laced with rocks. Even more fun is a piece of porcelain from a spark plug....

And having been hit hard in the back of the head with an iceball, I can tell you it hurts like hell. Maybe that explains why I am the way I am?


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

CHUCKLE............I love reading this stuff !!!!!!!

I hope SOME of you MY health zealots even consider YOUR employees?

Do you provide OSHA approved resperators, eye protection, clothing
etc. when YOU direct a employee to use chemicals on lawns?

Do you instruct them or send them to OSHA approved schooling on
SAFE use of said chemicals?
What about the NON english speaking/reading employee?
What do YOU do to instruct them?

Do you INSIST and provide this safety equipment that they will use?

What about when that poor employee is shoveling away at that 
salt/sand/deicer pile loading up the hopper of the sander?
Does he have a back brace? A resperator to protect HIS lungs from
silicononsis (spl)?

What about sending him out in the snowstorm in that rolling scrap
pile that "just needs a little work" to make just one more run!

I guess that don't apply because its just a expendable employee huh?

Just don't smoke that cigarette tho ! Important stuff first!
Keep pushing that snow for 10-12 hours straight you lowly employee.
Mr boss man needs that $$$$$$$$$ !

SHEESH..............:crying: :crying: :crying:


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## fms (Nov 8, 2005)

derekbroerse said:


> Here is where you are contradicting yourself.
> 
> Reaper, I'm sorry if my right to breathe seems to overrule your right to smell bad. You do not have the right to put me in the hospital hooked up in an oxygen tent. I can walk thru the smoggiest city for days and never have a problem, but cigarette smoke means I have to leave in a very short time frame. Some people are more susceptable to it than others. Part of the problem is that some people are physically allergic to tobacco--I know I am, it is on my record.
> 
> ...


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## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

Here’s my last two cents on this subject…and then back to snow plowing…

As far as work goes…employees are being paid to do a job during those paid hours and in company vehicles or company buildings etc. management can pretty much regulate all of their activities, particularly those like smoking, drinking etc. regardless of gov’t rules.

As to the larger issue at hand of personal rights…I would agree that there are people bothered by cigarette smoke. That being said public places should be regulated from this behavior. I however feel that there should be allowances for places that are not necessarily public per se. Certain bars, restaurants etc. should be able to dictate an atmosphere that their particular clientele desire. If their clients want to smoke then there should be that option. Those who don’t like it don’t patronize the place…if insufficient business results then they will close. “Market forces you gotta love’em” Additionally private clubs should definitely be exempt and their membership be the determining factor. Liquor licenses in my area have been the hammer used to close smoking in all bars and even private clubs. The rational being “worker safety”…yeah like many jobs people do every day are 100% safe nor are they ever exposed to any hazardous chemicals…I’d rather be a bartender than a coal miner any day

The best statement I have heard as of late and this can be applied to many of the “politically correct” issues of today is the following:

“Just because you are offended by something said (or actions)…does not necessarily make it offensive”

I am not a real smoker (cigars occassionally and I can forgo it for days, weeks or months as needed) but I hate being told that I don't have the option anywhere.

Oh yeah and for that health care rational...careful on that one how about all those fattys out there...they are just as big a healthcare issue...and with that kind of logic they are just the next ones on the list...so watch out

SD-Dave


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## Picket Fence (Nov 15, 2005)

*Go for it mickman!*



mickman said:


> I do, only because I smoke. But the first of the year, I'm quitting.
> So you know what that means......NO SMOKING!


After 28 years & 6 tries on patches, I gave the "Smoke Away" system a shot.
under $35 at wally world, worked great!! Good luck I'll keep you in my prayers :salute:


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

fms said:


> 1. I don't think we should legislate based on the weakest link.
> 2. The self righteous indignation of those that think they know best for all, drives me nuts.
> 3. All business owners should be responsible for determining whether or not their business is smoking or non smoking and any employee/patron can determine whether they want to work/patronize that business.


1. Not the weakest link, but the greatest want--the poll numbers here show it all. I would guess that the majority of people do not smoke and do not want it around them. Probably the only reason it hasn't gone to an outright ban is the economic impact. Then again, they banned peanut butter from the school system here.

2. Not for all, but people's basic needs have to come before people's wants. I don't know any other way of putting it.

3. When they enacted the ban here in Ontario, there was lots of whining and crying from restaurant owners etc. who figured they would lose business. Know what happened? They've reported an INCREASE in business since more people are coming and staying, and if the smokers still want to come they can but they have to smoke outside. Other places requested time extensions and excemptions (strip clubs for example), and many were granted. We always kinda joked that the smokey haze kept everyone from realizing that our local strippers were all like 65+ with plastic surgery!

Congratulations are definately due for anyone who successfully quits the habit. There is no question that it is hard to do...

As for the fatties, there is a big difference between the average person who is overweight and those who are extremely obese. This is where the talk of user fees comes into play--those who use/abuse the system pay more.

Boy this is a hot topic--when is someone going to bring up Gay Marriage or something?? LOL Hmmm gotta pose it in the form of a snow plowing question...


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945


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## blk90s13 (Sep 1, 2005)

i am a one man show so i can do anything in my truck i guess


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## DaveOhio (Jul 23, 2000)

*Reaper*

I hear you loud and clear. You know a little history.


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## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

Amen Reaper...

I am not an advocate of smoking...just of freedom of choice.

I have heard all the arguments about business improved etc. I am sure it did for some...I however am sure that there is a nitch for everyone and the gov't needs to stay the H-LL out of it.

As for the fatties, again a slippery slope...one man's few extra pounds is another persons "fat tub"...kinda like saying you can smoke but only a couple a day and your not really a smoker...see what I mean.

I get nailed on my life insurance for having the occassional cigar...yet little if no credit from health insurance nor life insurance for having less than 10% body fat and working out 4+ days a week, with zero health issues...gotta love insurance compaines, banks and above all the gov't...if you think its bad now wait till they start running the health plans...can you say DMV  

As for now I am just going to go plow snow and talk about that

Sorry to have entered this forum on a politcal tack...the post just really hit a nerve.

SD-Dave


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

REAPER said:


> First they came for the Communists,
> and I didn't speak up,
> because I wasn't a Communist.
> Then they came for the Jews,
> ...


I think you forgot a few lines... after the Protestant line methinks...

Then they came for the Smokers,
and they left empty handed,
because they had already died of cancer beforehand. 

 Just kidding of course...


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## Winter Land Man (Aug 9, 2005)

I'm a smoker so I smoke in the truck. I have an ashtray so I use it. Employee's use it as well (all smoke)


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## 84deisel (Dec 2, 2003)

I just ordered a new mack vison semi and yes it does have an ashtray and I will be smoking in it and no I don't care about your tree-hugging non smokers rights. So feel free to light up ,this is America still isn't it? :salute:


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## maxwell (Nov 5, 2005)

We allow crack cocaine and a little bit of dope, but no cigs - they stink up our new trucks.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

84deisel said:


> I just ordered a new mack vison semi and yes it does have an ashtray and I will be smoking in it and no I don't care about your tree-hugging non smokers rights. So feel free to light up ,this is America still isn't it? :salute:


Feel free to smoke up all you like in your own truck. Try it in mine and you'll be walkin'.

Not tree-hugging, its called self-preservation. Try it sometime.

And, no, it isn't America up here. Canada does not belong to the US.


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

I see none of "No smoking" zealots have posted on how they
provide safe working conditions, safety equipment or training
for their worthless/rule breaking employees.

Yet they harp "NO smoking"
If the zealots are that concerned for their smoking employees
why don't they also OFFER to PAY for a employee smoking
cessation (spl) program ...................................:crying:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Maybe I should clarify. I am not an anti-smoking zealot. If smoking was that dangerous to a smoker's health (I am not going to get into second hand smoke) every single smoker would have lung cancer or heart disease or die from something directly related to smoking. I just happen to think that it's a stupid habit to subject yourself to carbon monoxide, arsenic, etc when you don't have to. If God wanted us to smoke, He would have given us chimney's.

You can smoke in your own house, on your own property and I will be right there to defend your right to do so. Because as soon as the anti-smoking whackos enact this kind of legislation, we all know that they will start working on the next thing on their list, whether it be fast food, SUV's, who know's what, maybe even my religious freedom or my right to keep and bear arms. Which if you noticed to a certain extent all these rights have been already been infinged upon. 

What I am saying is if you are on my time, in my truck; you are not allowed to smoke in it because I don't like it and I don't like the image it portrays and many of my customers have non-smoking campuses. If your production slows because you feel the need to smoke every 5 minutes, then you can find yourself another job, I don't have to provide anybody with a smoking cessation program, do it on your time not mine or in my vehicle. It isn't my problem that you smoke, it's yours.

PS Some of you might change your minds if you ever have to go through chemotherapy and multiple surgeries to get rid of cancer, especially if it had nothing to do with smoking.


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## firstclasslawn (Sep 5, 2005)

*Yup*

I totally agree with Mark.....100%


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

sonjaab said:


> CHUCKLE............I love reading this stuff !!!!!!!
> 
> I hope SOME of you MY health zealots even consider YOUR employees?
> 
> ...


Let's see now, I almost forgot about this one Geo.

#1 Yes I do provide my employees with required safety equipment.
#2 If there is required training for applying pesticides, I will send them. At this point in time, there isn't. I don't have any Spanish speaking employees. If\when I do, they will have the same instruction\training as English speaking employees.
#3 Yes I do insist that they use it. They get a written warning if they don't along with their supervisor if applicable.
#4 We don't shovel salt\sand into spreaders. I provide my employees with the proper equipment to do the job as safely as possible. We don't use sand, so they don't need respirators. We don't use CaCl for the same reasons--too much of a health risk.
#5 If my trucks aren't safe, they don't go out. And they aren't rolling scrap heaps, so don't imply that they are.

Pretty broad statements you are making George. Pretty bold statements too, considering you don't know firsthand very many people on this board that are in this discussion. My employees make me money, so I treat them as best I can. Unfortunately, I am human and therefore am not perfect so I don't always treat them the way they should be. But I do my best to follow all the regulations and laws that I can, but the way our governments work, this is impossible.

It sounds like you have had some issues in the past with one of your bosses. It would also appear knowing what I do about you, that you no longer work for him. That is what makes this country great, you found another job so you could be the boss and have the opportunity to treat your employees better than you were. That is why if you want to smoke, go right ahead, like I said, I will defend your right to do so, just not on my time or in my vehicle.

And yes, I do make more money than my employees, which is my right. It is also because I am the one giving my personal guarantee on a loan, I am the one worrying about providing them with enough work to support their families and also running my business as efficiently as possible so I can pay them a living wage-which means my customers are not going to pay for my employees wasting time smoking.

Getting off my soapbox.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

sonjaab said:


> CHUCKLE............I love reading this stuff !!!!!!!
> 
> I hope SOME of you MY health zealots even consider YOUR employees?
> 
> ...


Fine then, I'll take a shot at this too.

1. We do not do lawns. Therefore we do not use those dangerous chemicals. Frankly, I'm not a believer in spending money on a lawn--weeds are green too--so I don't try to sell to that market either (you have to believe in your product). I like to cut the lawn, not much else.

2. Being that we use no chemicals, someone else can school them on it if they need it themselves.

3. I have not had to cross this hurdle yet, however, since we often have to deal with the customer (even if only to be sociable) I would say that their English skills need to be acceptable as part of the job requirements. My PERSONAL feeling in this matter is that anyone who comes to a new country should learn the native language. If there are several (like here, Eng and Fr) then learn the most commonly used one. Nothing worse than dealing with someone who's been here 40 years and can't speak a word of English.

4. I provide machinery that has ALL safety gear of it's original installation (and some even with upgrades) in perfect working order. I also insist they wear seatbelts where applicable. If we are in conditions that need them, respirators, dust masks, and safety glasses are provided.

5. We use a loader tractor to fill spreaders. Usually I do it myself, while employees sit in their truck. So far we don't spread sand. Back braces and knee braces have been suggested to them if they need to do something heavy, but being more of a personal item (and choice) I do not provide them. I don't buy their underwear either.

6. I don't have rolling scrap piles, either, even though the trucks are older. ALL equipment is regularly inspected, repaired, and maintained by myself, and when official inspections are required they go for those too. Truck not safe, truck doesn't roll.

7. I don't whip my workers, in fact, they get quite the opposite. If I have to ask them to work extra hours(keyword: ask), they still get paid but also usually get dinner included at my expense. Usually pizza and wings, or subs, or burgers and fries. Sorry, no gourmet stuff, though I did bring out some of my mom's homemade turkey soup one time for everyone.

I don't have a lot of rules. Show up clean, sober, and ready for work. If you are 5-10 mins late (try not to be, especially if people are waiting) work 5-10 mins of your lunch or after work. No smoking around me, the customer, or my trucks or shop. Smoke in your car or outside at the shop. During the work shift, smoke on your designated break time in an approved location. Follow the laws, don't speed, don't get me tickets, and don't tear up the equipment. So far no problems ever.

Poor, lowly employees... guess I'm hard to work for?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Geez, Derek, you sound like as much of a slave driver as I am. We both ought to be drawn and quartered. Maybe even put in stocks. How about tarred and feathered while they're at it.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

I dunno, I don't want to get tar on my upholstry! Then again, it will probably keep me from rusting as I get older....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Actually, maybe the tar will hold our rust heaps together. 

PS Geo, take a look at the poll, I just did. A bunch of us zealots here.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Oh, thats right, they're rolling scrap piles, I forgot....

LOL


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

MARK............I have been around this board for about as long
as you have..................

Funny I have never met you at any of the SIMA Symposiums,
Poughkeepsie bbqs, the annual RCS get togethers in Rochester,
various Hooters meet and greets around
the NE., meets in Erie, Or heck even the meet ups at Jerre 
Herres shop in Pa.
Do a search......Some GREAT pics !!!!!!!!!

I know quite a few members PERSONALLY both here and elsewhere.

I own 2 bar, resturant, hotel operations and have run them for OVER
25 years...........
My commercial plowing has been limited to a short 15 years...........

So its NOT my first rodeo..............

But its good that somebody finally did address employee safety and
training..........................geo


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

sonjaab said:


> MARK............I have been around this board for about as long
> as you have..................
> 
> Funny I have never met you at any of the SIMA Symposiums,
> ...


If you go back and read my post, I said you don't know many of the members involved in this thread. I know that you are at many of the GTG's. I did see you in Louisville this past summer, just didn't know it was you until someone mentioned it. I've been to the Symposiums in Denver and St Louis, don't know if you were, but this is just a pissing match that won't go any place. Couldn't make it to the last GTG at Jerre's because my wife had prior commitments, I hope to make it this coming April.

None of this has anything to do with the comments you made though. The ones you didn't address either. You made accusations, then you don't respond.

Like I said, glad to hear you are able to treat your employees better than it appears you were treated. That's what makes America great. The opportunity for just about anyone to be anything if they try hard enough.

While we're still pissing, my commercial experience is 20 years, company has been around since 1932.

And my dad is bigger than your dad.


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## maxwell (Nov 5, 2005)

is your mom bigger too?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

maxwell said:


> is your mom bigger too?


lol, yup.


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## sixspeed (Oct 22, 2004)

*Great fun post!!!*

I don't smoke.... Buuuuut....

Luckily it's still YOUR truck and you can say yeah or nay about smoking... It's all about FREEDOM!

Ben Franklin said it best:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security deserves neither and will lose both".


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## NEAL (Dec 19, 2000)

Wonder if anyone has had a truck burn up from a dropped smoke?


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## 04superduty (Jan 9, 2004)

NEAL said:


> Wonder if anyone has had a truck burn up from a dropped smoke?


i bet a few probably have. i know a couple of houses burn down too.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

NEAL said:


> Wonder if anyone has had a truck burn up from a dropped smoke?


Ever see the movie "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles"? John Candy and Steve Martin, one of my all-time fave's.


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## sixspeed (Oct 22, 2004)

NEAL said:


> Wonder if anyone has had a truck burn up from a dropped smoke?


My dad almost got a ticket in his company truck when he dropped a butt and swerved and almost hit a cop years ago!


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

Your truck your rules. But here is my problem. You guys always come back to smoke in your house or your property thats fine. I have been smoking since well forever so not easy to quit. I say hey if if I am in your truck and we are going somewhere fine I wouldn't smoke 9just right thing to do) but if I am in your truck driving making you money who ******* cares it's a work truck don't be so damned worried about resale becuase it had a plow and if worked i'm sure a few dings here and there. Dont like the smell spray a air freashiner. So glad I work for myself becuase I never could obey orders.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

NEAL said:


> Wonder if anyone has had a truck burn up from a dropped smoke?


Yes, one of our competitors had one go up a few years back from a dropped cigarette. So I am sure there have been more.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

PSDF350 said:


> If I am in your truck driving making you money who ******* cares it's a work truck don't be so damned worried about resale becuase it had a plow and if worked i'm sure a few dings here and there. Dont like the smell spray a air freashiner.


Again, not worried about the resale on a 20+ yr old work truck. It aint for sale and probably never will be until it is a pile of parts. Its a little different on a one-owner, low mileage Camaro that you are trying to sell.

Here is part of the problem--it is documented that smoker's have a reduced sense of smell. That being the case, and they come by it honestly I'm sure, they cannot tell how bad the smoke smells and that once it is in a vehicle, it is almost impossible to get out because the chemicals contained in it get into the fibres of the carpet, headliner, seats, etc., leaves a sticky film on glass, plastic, vinyl, etc. Spraying an air freshener in a car that smells like an ashtray only makes it smell like an ashtray in a pine forest.

It just doesn't work.

LOL one of the things every one of us on here has in common is that we don't like to follow orders, hence why we have our own businesses. That is probably why none of us ever agree on anything!


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yes, one of our competitors had one go up a few years back from a dropped cigarette. So I am sure there have been more.


Come to think of it, there was a catering/lunch truck a bunch of years back with a cab fire in the local wreckers. Could have been that or electrical, I never asked, but basically the entire truck was intact except the cab.


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## 04superduty (Jan 9, 2004)

derekbroerse said:


> Again, not worried about the resale on a 20+ yr old work truck. It aint for sale and probably never will be until it is a pile of parts. Its a little different on a one-owner, low mileage Camaro that you are trying to sell.
> 
> Here is part of the problem--it is documented that smoker's have a reduced sense of smell. That being the case, and they come by it honestly I'm sure, they cannot tell how bad the smoke smells and that once it is in a vehicle, it is almost impossible to get out because the chemicals contained in it get into the fibres of the carpet, headliner, seats, etc., leaves a sticky film on glass, plastic, vinyl, etc. Spraying an air freshener in a car that smells like an ashtray only makes it smell like an ashtray in a pine forest.
> 
> ...


Exactly, the cigarette smoke smell never leaves a vehicle. to a smoker it does but to someone who doesnt like the rotten smell it always hovers around. 
how would a smoker like it if every time i walked by them i poured that stuff thats in stink bombs on them. now they would know what its like for non smokers. 
A lot of smokers on here seem to try not to impose on others, but there are some just have the who gives a crap attitude. they throw cigarettes out the window, blow smoke in your face and theses are the ones that are causing all the laws to be passed.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

derekbroerse said:


> LOL one of the things every one of us on here has in common is that we don't like to follow orders, hence why we have our own businesses. That is probably why none of us ever agree on anything!


 Finally we agree on something.

Exactly, the cigarette smoke smell never leaves a vehicle. to a smoker it does but to someone who doesnt like the rotten smell it always hovers around. 
how would a smoker like it if every time i walked by them i poured that stuff thats in stink bombs on them. now they would know what its like for non smokers.

This is what pisses me off. What the **** do you care if I smell of smoke. Nor do I care if you don't like the smell. But I can guaranty you try trowing some skunk piss stuff on me and you would find out there are worst things to smell like your own blood.


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## grassmanvt (May 27, 2004)

PSDF350 said:


> This is what pisses me off. What the **** do you care if I smell of smoke. Nor do I care if you don't like the smell. But I can guaranty you try trowing some skunk piss stuff on me and you would find out there are worst things to smell like your own blood.


I'm pretty sure blood doesn't smell.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

Actually blood has a very distinct odor. I spilt enough to know.


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## grassmanvt (May 27, 2004)

PSDF350 said:


> Actually blood has a very distinct odor. I spilt enough to know.


Well, ya learn something new everyday. But, I guess thats one thing I'm plenty happy not knowing.


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## 04superduty (Jan 9, 2004)

PSDF350 said:


> This is what pisses me off. What the **** do you care if I smell of smoke. Nor do I care if you don't like the smell.


I DONT CARE IF YOU SMELL LIKE A RATS BEHIND. I was trying to give an example, comparing the stink of a stink bomb to the stink of a cigarette. to me they are the same. both get in your clothes and reak. Smoking is a choice and i could care less if you want to do something that will end your life sooner, as long as it doesnt affect me.

"But I can guaranty you try trowing some skunk piss stuff on me and you would find out there are worst things to smell like your own blood."

i didnt know skunk piss was in stink bombs? and blood doesnt smell at first but after a while it does. 
and last, thanks for not giving a crap about others. a true sign of a smoker, who cares if others have to deal with my addiction. screw em all.


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

*lite up*

All my trucks, subs and hand crew can smoke. I have some great guys and girls work for me and they smoke when they want but most smoke when they get time after or on the way to locations. Come on we are kind of busy driving ,looking behind, using hand controls ect. if they take 5 min to lite up after they get done it gives them time to wind down and the trucks get a five min break to charge up and a quick inspection of the rig and streched legs and i get a recharged driver or rested hand guy. I tell all my crews to take breaks and drink and snack when they can give me a happy worker anyday...


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## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

This is getting way off topic and uncivillized and the subject has been pretty much covered from every angle


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