# New lot, what do you think??



## bdlawncare

So one of my customers today asked me if i could plow the lot at the club they own... its 33,000 square feet... What would you guys think would be a fair price for 1-4".. per visit? BTW in Bergan County!


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

You might want to remeasure that lot looks like it's about half of what you said


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## bdlawncare

theres 2 little lots connected that you cant see because they are covered by trees so i just added on the square footage. Together they were about 10,000 sqft so the lot in the pic is like 20-23


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

Probably around $100-120 here


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## RepoMan207

Where the heck are you putting it all, and what are you using to do it?


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## bdlawncare

120 $ omg that sounds ridiculously cheap... Using a truck with n 8 ft blade... N the snow will all be pushed to the side parking isn't really an issue lot is for employees only and as u can see the lot is pretty empty


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## RepoMan207

Take into account I'm in another region, but from what I can see, I would charge somewhere around $275 for a 6" storm. I use a different structure as well...break it down as you see fit.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

I've said it before but I need to move, that lot would take what 40min max? We are lucky to get $70/hr here that's why I prefer pertime, get in, get done, get out.


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## wizardsr

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1398039 said:


> I've said it before but I need to move, that lot would take what 40min max? We are lucky to get $70/hr here that's why I prefer pertime, get in, get done, get out.


What part of the metro are you in that you're only getting $70/hr? I can't hardly put an employee with a decent wage in my truck for that.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

wizardsr;1398068 said:


> What part of the metro are you in that you're only getting $70/hr? I can't hardly put an employee with a decent wage in my truck for that.


Roseville, Shoreview, Moundsview, New Brighton, White Bear, and St. Paul. Where are you? What are you getting? I have a buddy getting $85 south and west. Lost a BIG account this year to a Co. charging $45 on paper


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## wizardsr

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1398073 said:


> Roseville, Shoreview, Moundsview, New Brighton, White Bear, and St. Paul. Where are you? What are you getting? I have a buddy getting $85 south and west. Lost a BIG account this year to a Co. charging $45 on paper


West metro. I won't post my prices on the internet for obvious reasons, but for $70/hr I'd park the trucks and stay home.

That lot in the picture above is all of a 15 minute plow. $100-$120 seems about right for it, but at $70/hr, you're talking about 1.3 to 1.5 hours to plow it.  Something's not adding up.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

wizardsr;1398077 said:


> West metro. I won't post my prices on the internet for obvious reasons, but for $70/hr I'd park the trucks and stay home.
> 
> That lot in the picture above is all of a 15 minute plow. $100-$120 seems about right for it, but at $70/hr, you're talking about 1.3 to 1.5 hours to plow it.  Something's not adding up.


Ya need to have a minimum, even if you're $150/hr you going to go do that lot for $37.50 for your 15 minutes?


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## bdlawncare

Yeah I defiantly have a minimum but I haven't really ever done " commercial work" only residentials... So I have my minimum for a driveway but that defiantly won't work for a lot... The thing is I get about 150-200 dollars for some of my larger driveways so if commercial prices are this cheap I'd much rather plow 2 driveways at 150 than this lot.. I was thinking around 500 plus salt! Idk maybe it's just the area I live near it's extremely wealthy


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## RepoMan207

God loves you if you can get that kind of scratch out of that. Ain't no way that would fly in my neck of the woods.....not from what I'm seeing anyway.


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## Rc2505

I want to know what equipment your using to plow 3/4 of an acre in 15 minutes? I would be on the thought process that it would take close to 30 to 45 minutes to plow that lot. You might be able to cut it down to about 25 minutes if you have the right equipment, but 15 wow I would be impressed.


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## ken643

I could get $400-$600 for that lot (up to six inches) easy in my area. (6-12 double) and so on


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## snocrete

I'd get about $500-700 for that lot in my area....probably be $350-450 for salting. That lot looks like it would take me 10min on 6inches or less......15-20 min on 6inches or more.


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## ken643

I think your right on at $500 plus salt if needed, I'm not that far from you Essex County NJ


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## KEC Maintaince

Ken im thinking 500-550 up to 6 inches plus salt ...easy 600 but 500-550 will guarantee it.
if that is a employee lot i would salt the **** out of it..


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## ken643

AgreedThumbs Up Now all we all need is some SNOWpayup


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

OK how many of you guys are just BSing (snocrete) and how many are serious/delusional? You guys can actually get that kind of money for a lot that will take you 40 minutes? Well I'm in the right business just in the wrong location


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## snocrete

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1399983 said:


> OK how many of you guys are just BSing and how many are delusional?


:laughing: Probably more than you and I think Nichols. :laughing:


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## woodchuck2

X2, i plow a lot for a bank here that is about that size. I shovel the steps, handi-cap walkway, plow the lot and salt the steps/walkway for $75. The bank supplies the salt for the steps/walkway. Trigger is 1" and gets plowed every 3" after until the storm ends. I cleaned it out the other day for 2" of wet snow, the shoveling/salting and plowing took me about 25 minutes. When i got done i inspected the lot to see the skim coat left behind was freezing so i salted the lot for another $75. I made $150 for less than 35 minutes work. Hell, i can hardly wait until a big storm comes through. I will make great money off this account even at only $75 per push. Due to the ATM machine i am contracted to the end of the storm 24-7. With a 12" storm i am looking to make $300 for clearing and another $75 to salt in the end.


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## KEC Maintaince

this is a quote from Superdog1

"Your main problem is the state you live in!!!!!!!!! Since the 1980's, NJ has become one of the most heavily regulated states in the USA!!!! Most CO's will not do business in NJ because of this. Almost all of the major players in the insurance business left NJ a long time ago. The only reason the others haven't left is because the amount of business they have there would put them under if they pulled out.

NJ is also a very litigious state. In simple terms, it means that you can't go to the bathroom without an attorney present, Lol Heck, even a simple fender bender in NJ will cost the insurance CO 3 times what the same accident would in PA. Another poster mentioned Erie insurance as a good place to get coverage. They are right, Erie is good, as they write insurance for almost any type of risk you can think of. Guess what?, they don't do business in NJ!"

he is absoluty correct do you think that a plow operator is going to do that lot for 150 bucks and assume all the liability... for 150 bucks i can do 1 driveway in scotch plains,clark or colonia in 15 min. Any responsible building owner will want the job done correctly now dont get me wrong there will be guys who will do it for a very cheap price.


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## rcn971

I'm down in Monmouth County, NJ.....most guys in my area won't drop their blade for less than $100 for a driveway. Lawsuits suck....but if the lawyers weren't such thieving scumbags in NJ we would be working for the same low rates that many of you guys seem to speak of. So in the end I guess it's all relevant.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

So with all the fear of being sued that's why you need to charge so much? To pay for your huge insurance premiums?


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## rcn971

That doesn't make sense to you? Let's look at it from another angle.....if you become involved in a slip/fall lawsuit and your deductible is $10k....what do you think the insurance company will offer to settle out of court right off the bat? If you take a trip to the ER around here for any type of accident I gaurantee within 30 days some scumbag lawyer will send you unsolicited information on your possible payout he can win for you at no risk/cost to you at all unless he recovers money. I don't know how they find out info but they do. NJ has more lawyers than any other state in the union. My commercial vehicle policy for 1 truck with a perfect driving record and I'm 40 years old is $2000 per year and another $1650 for plow insurance plus another $3000 for business liability insurance plus another $3000 for workmans comp insurance and I only have two laborers plus myself on payroll.


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## KEC Maintaince

in jersey you have too make 8- 10k ( 2 trucks running1 driver plus yourself) just to break even anything after that if nothing breaks on the truck or no accidents you might make some money thats if everyone pays. 
so to answer your question just like everything else yes we pass it along to the customer. also keep in mind in nj you can sue both the plow operator and the building owner. you can sue the plow operator because he should of plowed and salted plus the building owner and or management company for neglect of not overseeing to make sure the area was safe for pedestrians. oh yea even if its private property it is still some ones responsibility nj is the worse state.you also have 24 hours after the last flake falls to clear it some town will give more time but areas like metuchen down town where the train station is they will fine you


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## rcn971

In fact, even if you have a hold harmless clause in your contract, you can still be sued and if that amount is for more than $3000.00 a corporate attorney MUST be present to represent you.


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## ken643

It is the area fellas, I have been doing this a long time about 18 years in the same area. NJ pays well. And top that off with an High priced township average house selling for over a million. You can make some good bucks. Last year the December 26 2010 storm dropped around 28 inches here. I was getting $250-$500 and up per drive. I charge by the depth and with the Jeep I go several times to maintain. That storm I did every drive 3 times. My entire route one pass takes me about 4 1/2 hours. My friends rates are all about the same as me. Like they say in real estate LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION


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## KEC Maintaince

Hey RC im over at jersey shore medical center. where u located at


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## oneoldsap

That's good money , but I wouldn't live in NJ for any amount of money ! Do Lawyers out number Landfills now ?


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## KEC Maintaince

funny you should mention that actually we ship it west or north. now we play golf on our landfills......lol


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## oneoldsap

Good luck with that !


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## rcn971

Kec......about 3/4 of a mile west of you directly off 33


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## rcn971

Hopefully you are just visiting...lol


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## snocrete

ken643;1400588 said:


> My entire route one pass takes me about 4 1/2 hours. Like they say in real estate LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION


Jeeps are awsome for driveways!! I have seriously considering getting one....maybe put a snowway w/ down pressure on it.....How many drives are you knocking out in 4.5 hrs with your jeep? And I totally agree about location being everything! Also, cost of living effects many things, including how far your profits get you within your own area.


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## ken643

@snocrete My friend had snow ways on his jeeps for several years, he just switched over to the same plow I have Fisher 6'-9" on both jeeps. He said the snoway was just to Light duty and he had electrical issues with the cheaper made plug, maybe the new ones are better I dont know his were a few years old both on Jeeps. just my 2 cents from what he told me. I have 38 good size driveways and 2 small lots. I fly like the wind especially at night when no one is on the road.


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## snocrete

ken643;1400588 said:


> . I was getting $250-$500 and up per drive.
> 
> takes me about 4 1/2 hours.





ken643;1401055 said:


> 38 good size driveways and 2 small lots.


Thats $3166.66/hr......not including your 2 small lots.


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## White Gardens

snocrete;1401206 said:


> Thats $3166.66/hr......not including your 2 small lots.


Now That's what I'm talking about!!!!!payup

I need to move there.

...


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## ken643

@snocrete LOL not quite that good, I wish, I never figured it out by the hour


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## SharpBlades

Hard to tell from the photos but it looks anywhere from $120-200 per push up to 6"


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## Flawless440

Seems high to me $200 2-4 inch 4.1-6 inch $300 per push Drop salt for $200

Walks $35 per man hour


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## wizardsr

Rc2505;1399410 said:


> I want to know what equipment your using to plow 3/4 of an acre in 15 minutes? I would be on the thought process that it would take close to 30 to 45 minutes to plow that lot. You might be able to cut it down to about 25 minutes if you have the right equipment, but 15 wow I would be impressed.


If that lot in the pic is 3/4 acre, you must be about 2' tall...


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## KEC Maintaince

throw 2-3 cars in that lot and see how fast your time adds up.
since every one says charge 200-300 just charge that 
imo for 300 bucks when some one slips and falls you can tell the owner you are not responsible because you gave him a price that guys out in the mid west charge.
thee lowest i would go is 500 plus salt up to 7 inches with a 2 inch trigger plus you will salt after storm.
what kind of water run off does that lot have??? what about iceing conditions??where are the drain pipes run from building for ice???
does he want it done after storm or during?/ how about on the weekends


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## snocrete

ken643;1401318 said:


> @snocrete LOL not quite that good....*its not?* , I never figured it out by the hour...*I did, and the math was pretty straight forward???*


???????



wizardsr;1402540 said:


> If that lot in the pic is 3/4 acre, you must be about 2' tall...


:laughing:



KEC Maintaince;1402689 said:


> throw 2-3 cars in that lot and see how fast your time adds up.
> since every one says charge 200-300 just charge that
> imo for 300 bucks when some one slips and falls you can tell the owner you are not responsible because you gave him a price that guys out in the mid west charge.
> *thee lowest i would go is 500 plus salt up to 7 inches with a 2 inch trigger *plus you will salt after storm.
> what kind of water run off does that lot have??? what about iceing conditions??where are the drain pipes run from building for ice???
> does he want it done after storm or during?/ how about on the weekends


That would be $125/push......thats not bad. Like I said before, I understand NJ pricing should be higher than average......but not quadruple IL's for example.


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## the new boss 92

im in illinois and that is about 175 dallor lot pluse salt. salting would pay for almost my bulk load


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## habart30

I'm agreeing with the guys at $200 or less for that lot. Around here (sw MI) if your trying to charge $500, and even $300 for that matter, for a lot that might take you 40 minutes you might as well get lost.


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## wewille

How often does it snow in New Jersey.


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## RepoMan1968

bdlawncare;1397844 said:


> So one of my customers today asked me if i could plow the lot at the club they own... its 33,000 square feet... What would you guys think would be a fair price for 1-4".. per visit? BTW in Bergan County!


I'll entertain this one from the sky 
ice -5.99 $350
6-11.99 $700
(1') & Over $1050 + $75 ea. addl. in.
*Snow Relocating Rate $350 hr. min. 4 hr. 
*3 year contract 
*Material & Labor Incl.
* Not responsible for unattended vehicle(s)
*Payment to be made 10 working days from invoiced billing (5% interest after 30 days
and a whole slew of stipulations etc. etc. :waving:

Not resposible for typographical errors


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## TPC Services

Wizardsr, Nichols Landsca prices are on line for what we are getting down here. We are damn lucky down here to get $70 an hour to many clowns running around bidding crap at $45-$50 an hr. and that includes the big boys doing that low balling to. Perfect cut, truegreen, A+, I have to agree that you need a minuim but not at $120 not down here There’s to many hillbillies around here that would plow & spread that for $80, Feel lucky your still geting more because I have a feeling the low balling is headed north, just hasn't hit you yet!!


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## racer47

i agree with flawless440 on price for that lot


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## wizardsr

TPC Services;1443929 said:


> Wizardsr, Nichols Landsca prices are on line for what we are getting down here. We are damn lucky down here to get $70 an hour to many clowns running around bidding crap at $45-$50 an hr. and that includes the big boys doing that low balling to. Perfect cut, truegreen, A+, I have to agree that you need a minuim but not at $120 not down here There's to many hillbillies around here that would plow & spread that for $80, Feel lucky your still geting more because I have a feeling the low balling is headed north, just hasn't hit you yet!!


Yeah, your pricing is in the crapper down there. I bought a 4-wheeler from another member on here and drove down to Des Moines to pick it up. Chatted with him for a while and was dumbfounded when he told me they top out at $70/hr and seasonal pricing is un-heard of, everything is done and billed per hour. No incentive to be good at what you do and be efficient, no incentive to run better equipment, etc, I could never work that way. No offense, but I think our markets are different, and I don't see seasonal contracts and decent paying per-push lots going away anytime soon. There would have to be a pretty dramatic shift to switch this area to straight hourly, very few around here work that way.


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## hummer81

snocrete;1401206 said:


> Thats $3166.66/hr......not including your 2 small lots.


Checked the math and it looks pretty close. Everyone has to have their bottom line but this is a industry that is driven by anyone that can jump into a truck and clear snow. To ***** about 75 dollars an hour per hour pushed per truck is crazy to me (at least in MN). If you cant make a seasonal job on that you shouldn't be in business. As a sub it is hard to find someone that will pay more than 45 an hour (very sad). It seems like most companies around here wanna rack 40 percent off their subs. Just remember there are skilled tradesman out there as business owners that would be happy to be billing out 75 dollars an hour.


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## wizardsr

hummer81;1445467 said:


> To ***** about 75 dollars an hour per hour pushed per truck is crazy to me (at least in MN).


That's a pretty general statement, MN is a big state. Your perspective has me doubting that you're working anywhere near the suburban metro area.

So, you think we're ripping people off at $75/hr? Wanna take a guess at what it costs to put a legitimate employee in a plow truck?


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## hummer81

wizardsr;1445551 said:


> That's a pretty general statement, MN is a big state. Your perspective has me doubting that you're working anywhere near the suburban metro area.
> 
> So, you think we're ripping people off at $75/hr? Wanna take a guess at what it costs to put a legitimate employee in a plow truck?


No I dont think your ripping people off at 75/hr. I really think that a businessman should be billing out at that or better said and done. I also think any decent sub should get 55-60 /hr around the metro (I found Impossible to find this year) All I am saying is if one is to ***** about 75/hr you prob. need to think about getting into some easier money. IMHO I think if it costs you more than 55/hr to put a 20/hr employee in your truck, you have over extended your costs of doing business. Making 20/hr per truck after all expenses is pretty good money. I really dont wanna push this thread in a dif. dir. but what are your costs to put a 20/hr employee in your truck? But your correct, MN is a very big state. Funny, I bet guys out of the metro are doing just as good if not better. Anywhere near the metro is also pretty vague...


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