# damaged asphalt-who's responsible



## ahaycoman (Oct 28, 2002)

The other morning my blade hooked an edge and I ending up breaking loose a big chunk of asphalt. I've plowed this lot hundreds of times and even though there are some possible places to hook the pavement, they are all in other areas of the lot. I know where they are and I allow for them. There has never been a reason for me to think I could hook the blade where I did, but obviously there was enough there to catch the blade. Under the snow of course but there none the less. 
This uncomplaining long-time customer is one who pays promptly and never nit-picks, but he will definitely let me know about it if something isn't right. I intend to carry the financial responsibility if for no other reason because I want to retain him as a customer, even though I was going very slow and was not aware that anything was there to catch my blade. I'm adequately insured but probably will not turn it in since I've never had any claims to date and don't want to start an unnecessary track record. I just wondered if anybody had opinions on this. Should I have assumed that a break in the pavement had surfaced since the last time I plowed and I didn't know about it and therefore should not feel responsible? I'm going to pay for it regardless, but I just wondered what the thoughts might be.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

ahaycoman;1724651 said:


> The other morning my blade hooked an edge and I ending up breaking loose a big chunk of asphalt. I've plowed this lot hundreds of times and even though there are some possible places to hook the pavement, they are all in other areas of the lot. I know where they are and I allow for them. There has never been a reason for me to think I could hook the blade where I did, but obviously there was enough there to catch the blade. Under the snow of course but there none the less.
> This uncomplaining long-time customer is one who pays promptly and never nit-picks, but he will definitely let me know about it if something isn't right. I intend to carry the financial responsibility if for no other reason because I want to retain him as a customer, even though I was going very slow and was not aware that anything was there to catch my blade. I'm adequately insured but probably will not turn it in since I've never had any claims to date and don't want to start an unnecessary track record. I just wondered if anybody had opinions on this. Should I have assumed that a break in the pavement had surfaced since the last time I plowed and I didn't know about it and therefore should not feel responsible? I'm going to pay for it regardless, but I just wondered what the thoughts might be.


First off tell them about it before they tell you. Was this area cracked damaged in anyway? It sounds like you have a pretty good relationship with this customer and they may just say we'll spilt the cost or don't worry about it. 
For the future you may want to walk a property in the beginning of the season to take pictures of damaged or areas that potential going to be a problem and share it with them.


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

agree with buff--tell em before they tell you. Sometimes you get a frost heave and suddenly there is a edge that wasn't there before. Decide on what you are willing to pay out of pocket. The slightest hint of unreasonableness or anger on their part let the insurance company handle it. You can patch it with cold patch now but to fix it right might take till June


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## Mike NY (Feb 2, 2009)

Time for a new line in your contract:
Snowplowing is to be done with a heavy steel blade, trucks, tractors, loaders.
Although every effort is made to avoud damage to your property, We will not be responsible for damage to parking lot surfaces, curblines, and lawn areas.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

if it is a matter of a few bags of patch and torch, couple hrs of work....tell him about it and fix it....worth it to keep a good customer


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Mike NY;1724747 said:


> Time for a new line in your contract:
> Snowplowing is to be done with a heavy steel blade, trucks, tractors, loaders.
> Although every effort is made to avoud damage to your property, We will not be responsible for damage to parking lot surfaces, curblines, and *lawn areas*.


seriously? lawn areas?

maybe it's because I'm lawn maintenance business but lawn areas are the easiest to fix.

lots of times if you grab a chunk of turf all you need to do it put it back in place and it will take on its on and come spring you'll never know it was done. but at most you just seed that area.

turf repairs are ALWAYS covered by me when plowing. that's why they make markers. now curb lines and the actual lot is a different story.


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## Mike NY (Feb 2, 2009)

We also fix turf areas to an extent, if the customer wants us to replace topsoil, seed, new sod, Basically wanting you to give him a new lawn, I will not and refer him to the contract. 
We always put the torn out sod back, stomp down any ruts, light rake maybe when we pull stakes at the end of the season.
This came into play more with gravel driveways and lots, you can't tell me you rake tons of gravel out for free.
Also, if they wont pay for removal, and i have to pile a seasons worth of snow on their lawn, It is their choice, they have options.
I'm just not fixing for free nor will I remove for free.


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## UltraLwn&Lndscp (Oct 20, 2013)

Mike NY;1724747 said:


> Time for a new line in your contract:
> Snowplowing is to be done with a heavy steel blade, trucks, tractors, loaders.
> Although every effort is made to avoud damage to your property, We will not be responsible for damage to parking lot surfaces, curblines, and lawn areas.


I have a similar line in my contracts.

If its a good customer and small damage I would probably fix it. As has been stated, make a call or email the client ASAP to let them know.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Sounds like you're being reasonable despite not being your fault. Sometimes that's what it takes to keep a good customer. 

I understand what Buff is saying, but I was cleaning a parking lot a week ago that had 3" frost heaves in it that were not there last fall. I couldn't believe how bad they were. I was there yesterday AM and they were down again, not all the way, but not 3" anymore.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Mike NY;1724773 said:


> We also fix turf areas to an extent, if the customer wants us to replace topsoil, seed, new sod, Basically wanting you to give him a new lawn, I will not and refer him to the contract.
> We always put the torn out sod back, stomp down any ruts, light rake maybe when we pull stakes at the end of the season.
> This came into play more with gravel driveways and lots, you can't tell me you rake tons of gravel out for free.
> Also, if they wont pay for removal, and i have to pile a seasons worth of snow on their lawn, It is their choice, they have options.
> I'm just not fixing for free nor will I remove for free.


I don't do gravel driveways.

I have 1 gravel driveway and that's my grandpas. and while he does pay for my services I pile all the snow in 1 place and yes I do rake/blow the gravel out of the turf for free in the spring.

but as for any client if my plow or truck did ANY damage to the turf I will fix it to there satisfaction at no cost to them.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Parking lot surfaces only last so long. If the owner has done no work to seal it or other maintenance items to minimize deterioration, then it's only going to get worse over time.

I'd bring it to the attention of the owner, fix it this time, but let him know that you can't be responsible in the future due to natural deterioration. 



............


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## CityGuy (Dec 19, 2008)

White Gardens;1724844 said:


> Parking lot surfaces only last so long. If the owner has done no work to seal it or other maintenance items to minimize deterioration, then it's only going to get worse over time.
> 
> I'd bring it to the attention of the owner, fix it this time, but let him know that you can't be responsible in the future due to natural deterioration.
> 
> ............


Thats what I was thinking. Mother nature will do strange things to asphalt. You cannot be liable for that.


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

Personally, if you are going to do written contracts, then you need several lines in it to limit your liability. Been there done that, turfed the edge of the driveway, customer wants a whole lawn, scooped up a 2x3ft section of asphalt, the customer wants 23 acres of parking lots replaced so that it all matches, truck gets stuck against curb caving in curb line because contractor didn't backfill in island, customer wants new curbs cause we didn't plow them. What we do on day 1 is inform the customer that we are capable of doing damage and photo document the situation on day 1. Treat customers like the way you want to be treated and you will be successful in the long run.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

man I've been lucky. I've never had a client want a whole new lawn just from a chunk of turf being removed. usually they just want the spot fixed. no matter how small or large it is.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

We do not fix damage to asphalt for free, and have never had a complaint about it. We do repair/replace damages to lawns, curbs, and parking bumpers.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

I would think if the plow could damage the asphalt it must be in bad shape already and I would consider myself not responsible. I mean plows float across the asphalt. there isn't much keeping it down to "dig up" chunks unless they are already loose.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Then there's the paving done by the illustrious ''gypsies'' of the industry who don't always ''key in'' when doing a section and for sure the plow will pick up a large piece of pavement.Just throwing it out there to inspect such a scenario in the Fall.

Yeah,anything under the snow line that gets damaged I am not responsible for.


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## ahaycoman (Oct 28, 2002)

*asfault was not my phalt*

I had talked to the maintenance head the morning it happened, although it was unfortunately him who called me. Today I went up there and it was plain to both of us that it was nothing I did wrong or carelessly. We discussed a slightly different way to attack the lot which will work out OK. The big boss has been out of town all week so he may have different thoughts, but I'm thinking things will work out smoothly. I read all of your replies and have taken all of your very good advice to heart. Thanks for the come backs--everybody.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

ahaycoman;1725541 said:


> I had talked to the maintenance head the morning it happened, although it was unfortunately him who called me. Today I went up there and it was plain to both of us that it was nothing I did wrong or carelessly. We discussed a slightly different way to attack the lot which will work out OK. The big boss has been out of town all week so he may have different thoughts, but I'm thinking things will work out smoothly. I read all of your replies and have taken all of your very good advice to heart. Thanks for the come backs--everybody.


Good to hear they're being reasonable, you're only bad was they contacted you but it all worked out in the end.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

BUFF;1725578 said:


> Good to hear they're being reasonable, you're only bad was they contacted you but it all worked out in the end.


I wouldn't even say that.

Just is what it is.

We were doing a Lowes a couple of years ago, and at the end of the season, there was a 5'x'5 section of asphalt that heaved and broke up. Plowed it once and tore it to heck.

Manager didn't care, said it was the hard winter and the frost heave. They fixed it themselves.

.........


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Glad it worked out for the OP. Sometimes you can come across some real unreasonable people in this biz.


I started a new commercial property this year, and in the first storm, I cracked a fence post. The snow turned to slush / ice, and when I was pushing the mound towards the short fence between the job, and the property next door, I saw the post keel over even though I was at least 3' from it. The weight / mass of the lump I as moving cracked the post, which, btw, was about 20 years old or so. After the storm, I went back a few days later and fixed the post by installing reinforcements around it, and it's none the worse for wear. The snow had melted, and I was able to get up to the post,vs climbing over a mound of snow to work on it.

The company I was plowing didn't say anything to me about it. I went in about 4 days after I fixed the post, and I asked if anyone had complained about the fence. He had no idea what I was talking about. The fence belonged to the next door property, and no one complained to them about it. The manager was actually shocked to know that I fixed it without actually being called to do so. He said the last plow contractor ripped out two power feeds on the property,one being for the signpost out front, and the well head out back. The guy wouldn't own up to fixing it, and said that even though he hit it, it wasn't his fault, and wasn't about to do anything about it.

How is it not your fault ? did you not hit 2 power feeds to two different devices on the property ? Why wasn't the property marked out, and notated where the well head was ? The sign is 25' tall, so there was no excuse there.

I just don't get some people.


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## CityGuy (Dec 19, 2008)

Dogplow Dodge;1725621 said:


> Glad it worked out for the OP. Sometimes you can come across some real unreasonable people in this biz.
> 
> I started a new commercial property this year, and in the first storm, I cracked a fence post. The snow turned to slush / ice, and when I was pushing the mound towards the short fence between the job, and the property next door, I saw the post keel over even though I was at least 3' from it. The weight / mass of the lump I as moving cracked the post, which, btw, was about 20 years old or so. After the storm, I went back a few days later and fixed the post by installing reinforcements around it, and it's none the worse for wear. The snow had melted, and I was able to get up to the post,vs climbing over a mound of snow to work on it.
> 
> ...


Not to defend the gut but the contart may have been signed late, changed hands mid season or he may have been a sub and had a clause in his contract.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Hamelfire;1725634 said:


> Not to defend the gut but the contart may have been signed late, changed hands mid season or he may have been a sub and had a clause in his contract.


Yeah, I know it's possible he didn't know about the well head, but the sign that's 25' high ?

I have water today.

You plow tonight

I have no water tomorrow.

I look out back, and the well head is ripped off.

You are still responsible, even if you didn't know it was there... At least that's how I would roll.... but that's just me, as I would have done a drive by prior to the snow to see what was around..... just like I do with all of my jobs. Things change, and if I pass through a day or two ahead, I hope to catch 99% of those changes.


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## d_charters (Nov 11, 2012)

My contract states the following:

Notwithstanding anything herein to the contrary, the contractor will have no obligation, and the owner waives any damages for any property damage not timely and properly reported. The Contractor can and will not assume any liability for cosmetic damage to curbs and any damage to surfaces being plowed. 



With that said if I hit something I'm going to let them know. Contract also states damages must be reported within 48 hours. keeps me a little safer when the delivery truck backs into something and takes off without saying anything.


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## V_Scapes (Jan 1, 2011)

I picked up a church in town last year and the lot was in terrible shape, it was a nightmare to plow. So i did my best and crawled through the rough areas trying not to tear anything up but sometimes you cant help it. 
They ended up calling me early in the spring for a refferal to a good paving contractor, so he gave them a good price and did a beautiful patch job and now the place is much easier to plow.


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

ton of hot asphalt is $100, saw cut out the damage and plug it.. Hit the others for free.. No big deal..


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Flawless440;1727200 said:


> ton of hot asphalt is $100, saw cut out the damage and plug it.. Hit the others for free.. No big deal..


Couldn't agree more.

I did a paver sidewalk for a customer, and when I reached the driveway, it simply collapsed because there was no supporting stone under the edge. Since the driveway was 55 years old, I could have said... we'll it's on you. But instead, I simply picked up a lump of tar from my local plant, drove it back there, saw cut the juncture, filled it, and made them happy. Is it perfect ? No, but it worked well, and they haven't had any issues since. He's a "seal coating fanatic" so it's been recoated about 6 times since I did this.

My BIL had a bad sector in his driveway, so I knew I had too much asphalt left over from the job. Saw cut the root section out, and filled it for him for free.

I will admit, it was a PITA getting the asphalt out of my trailer, but the mineral spirits did the job.



BIL's House


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## d_charters (Nov 11, 2012)

> I will admit, it was a PITA getting the asphalt out of my trailer, but the mineral spirits did the job.


My summer day job is for an asphalt company. If you ever have to do it again spray some diesel down before they drop the asphalt. Keeps it from sticking to the box or trailer.


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## BillyRgn (Jan 28, 2004)

It's a fine line, in your situation for a good customer I would notify him that here is some asphalt that had been ripped up and tell him I would take care of it. It's cheap easy for the most part and won't take you very long, however on a real crap lot you have to be careful what you agree to do because you may end up paving half the lot with the patch work they may want. I tell everyone up front I'm not responsible for asphalt, however something minor like that I will take care of, or if it is a bit worse I will work with owner and do it for cost.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Dogplow Dodge;1727604 said:


>


Dude, :crying:

Bad use of plastic landscape edging.........

Do I need to come to your house and beat you with a silly stick.....

But the pavers look nice..

......


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

White Gardens;1728181 said:


> Dude, :crying:
> 
> Bad use of plastic landscape edging.........
> 
> ...


I could care less what your or anyone else's opinion is on that crappy plastic edging. It's not my doing. Thanks about the walkway, as I thought it came out okay

If the H.O. wants to paint their house purple with yellow polk-a-dots on it, who is anyone to say NO. This is what they paid another "landscaper" to install as they didn't want their mulch to drift into the walk. I was hired to do the walk and their landscaper would do the rest. When they asked my opinion on what to do about the insets against the home, I told them not to use mulch, as they would be picking weeds out of it all the time, but the didn't listen to me. I'm not a landscaper and they didn't trust my opinion. The mulch & edging were installed by their guy after I completed the walk, and I went back to see what you're looking at.

Do I like it ? NO. But I don't live there.


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## BillyRgn (Jan 28, 2004)

Dogplow Dodge;1728402 said:


> I could care less what your or anyone else's opinion is on that crappy plastic edging. It's not my doing. Thanks about the walkway, as I thought it came out okay
> 
> If the H.O. wants to paint their house purple with yellow polk-a-dots on it, who is anyone to say NO. This is what they paid another "landscaper" to install as they didn't want their mulch to drift into the walk. I was hired to do the walk and their landscaper would do the rest. When they asked my opinion on what to do about the insets against the home, I told them not to use mulch, as they would be picking weeds out of it all the time, but the didn't listen to me. I'm not a landscaper and they didn't trust my opinion. The mulch & edging were installed by their guy after I completed the walk, and I went back to see what you're looking at.
> 
> Do I like it ? NO. But I don't live there.


I agree I've done some things for people over the years that I thought were so stupid and ugly but the customer insisted on it no matter what alternative I offered and they wanted to pay so they get what they ask for.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Dogplow Dodge;1728402 said:


> I could care less what your or anyone else's opinion is on that crappy plastic edging. It's not my doing. Thanks about the walkway, as I thought it came out okay
> 
> If the H.O. wants to paint their house purple with yellow polk-a-dots on it, who is anyone to say NO. This is what they paid another "landscaper" to install as they didn't want their mulch to drift into the walk. I was hired to do the walk and their landscaper would do the rest. When they asked my opinion on what to do about the insets against the home, I told them not to use mulch, as they would be picking weeds out of it all the time, but the didn't listen to me. I'm not a landscaper and they didn't trust my opinion. The mulch & edging were installed by their guy after I completed the walk, and I went back to see what you're looking at.
> 
> Do I like it ? NO. But I don't live there.


I was just ribbing you.

If there is enough of a lip against the sidewalk, then the edging is useless for mulch migration. The HO's are just lazy and don't want to actually remove any mulch when adding new.

What I don't get, in the situation in your pic, is why any HO would do that from the standpoint of trapping water, and letting it leach under the walk, rather than allowing the excess surface water drain across the walk.

In the end, you are right, HO's only want what they want and never listen until there is an actual problem.

Also love how the boxwoods are smack dab against the house. Those appear to be green mountains, that will eventually over-run that space and look horrible when mature.

.....

........


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

White Gardens;1728453 said:


> I was just ribbing you.
> 
> Also love how the boxwoods are smack dab against the house. Those appear to be green mountains, that will eventually over-run that space and look horrible when mature.........


They died..... (the bushes, and not the customers)....

Although.... it wouldn't have been a negative occurrence if it was one of them..
.....


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