# "We just don't have the money to pay you"



## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

I have a customer (small restaurant) that I called for lack of payment. A little background. This is the third year we've plowed for them. First year, great on payments. Second year, they were slow on making payments. This year I had it set up for late payments and service to stp after 30 days. That went for all of our customers. We got hit with small storm after storm for five weeks straight. Due to the amount of storms, we billed five invoices in about five weeks. I know it put a strain on peoples pocketbooks. But I have huge bills to pay, too. After talking to the restaurant manager, and hearing how the food vendor just showed up and wouldn't leave the supplies until they had payment in hand, I knew what was coming my way. I don't work for free and they were at 45 days past due on their 2nd invoice so we stopped service. Instead of making payment, I got wind of them calling other plow guys. Like us plow guys don't talk. So the manager of the restaurant can't do anything else for me and she says call the owner. I call him up and we chat. I said we're out X amount of dollars and we're 45 days old on the 2nd invoice. I said if money is tight, let me know and we can work it out and get back on track. I offered a solution of him giving me 7 post dated checks, dated once a week for the next seven weeks. I figured this was a win win situation. But he flat out told me during the winter, he doesn't have enough customers to cover his expenses. Hmmm, I guess that's why the food vendor is now on COD. That's great for the vendor but I don't have that leverage. The snow is already off the lot. The owner says he will see if he can make a payment this weekend but I'm not holding my breath. To date, we have invoices 51 days old, 38, 32, and 23 days out. If this was the only customer, it wouldn't be a big deal. But with winter the way it was, we're waiting on a pile and it's getting frustrating. My question is this.....at what point do YOU guys do something? 60 days? 90 days? It just blows my mind how this guy wouldn't call me and say money is tight. He doesn't try and work out a payment plan. He just calls other plow guys. Here's a thought....why not use your snow blower and do it yourself? That's what I would do if my bank account was empty. Yes guys, I've already had thoughts of pushing the snow back onto the lot. Yes, I thought about parking the plow truck against the door. But being realistic, how do you get people to pay when they flat out tell you they don't have the money and they don't take you up on the options of post dating checks?


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## Bartlett_2 (Nov 2, 2009)

I hate it when that happens. Always towards the end of the season, too. If snows coming you can use that as leverage, but after the season's over, it gets harder to collect. I've always tried to keep after it until paid, which in that kind of a situation, can take some time. Or you could send it to collections, or sue, which can eat some of the settlement, but there's no guarantee you'll get your cash... I hope you are able to work it out with this account, good luck!


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

I feel your pain and frustration. I patiently wait 30 days knowing I won't get paid until were closer to 60 days. After 61 days they get a face to face visit and a friendly reminder that I'm not feeling friendly anymore....


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## Ford Guy (Feb 7, 2007)

I have the same issue with some of my customers, and have every year i've been in business, 11 years now. I've had pretty good results with sending a first notice letter for 30 days past due, then a 2nd notice after 60 days, then threatening collections after 90 days. Usually takes the 90 day letter to get them to pay, but i charge overdue interest. Some customers I will kind of give the benefit of the doubt as long as they're up front and honest with me, but others I suspend service.


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## Joe D (Oct 2, 2005)

At this point your out x amount. If they have been a good customer I would work with them. The post dating check thing is illegal in MA so I don't know if you can do that.
Ask the guy for a realistic date on payment and keep plowing. Or drop them and small claims court.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Send a letter to him that you do not want a company business check ,you want a money order or cashiers check.But if he does snd you a business and it bounces make sure you file a police report for bad check writing ,courts don't stand for that.Or run to the bank it's drawn on and see if they will cash it even if they will charge you service fee to it


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## brianbrich1 (Dec 3, 2010)

I had a management company about 4 years back try to mysteriously skip some invoicing when they sent checks out. Thank god for my wife catching it as i overlooked...It was for 2 invocies for a total of 800.00.... This was caught in march so for a month they denied even getting the invoices( which is hard to do with them being sent email the same as the others) Then for the next month it was check is in the mail.Then for another month my phone calls were deflected away by the secretary. So starting in June I said I will call there office everyday at 3:30 and leave them messages or what not till I got a check. This went on for a few months until in the mail one day was my check...In the end the amount was not worth the lawyer as it would use thatup...so I accepted it as a loss or eventually would get my money by calling nonstop...Needless to say neverplowed for them again..


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## Shoreline (Nov 21, 2009)

Eat at their restaurant and when they bring the bill, tell them you simply don't have the money. I know, you would have to eat a lot of food to come close to what your bill is but just maybe they would get the picture. Sorry about your luck.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

Around here, plow guys are friendly competition. We tell each other who to avoid. That does not help you out in this situation. If you see someone else plowing, give him/her a heads up. I hope you get your money.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

You could barter, as one of the other posters mentioned, but probably they owe you alot more than you could eat before they close down from lack of business.

Best thing to do is to sue them and obtain a judgement asap. They probably owe others if they owe you. It's likely that they have not been paying over payroll and sales taxes, and the government will step in to get what's left over before you do if you don't act quick.

Bottom line is that he was willing to screw you, so there's no reason for you to be nice to him.


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## NBI Lawn (Oct 15, 2007)

I find if funny that lawn and plowing is overlooked by customers all the time...until you are an hour late. They just expect it to be done and then take their time to pay it if they pay it at all. I had a residential mowing customer that owed for two months, large balance owed. I called mulitple times and never got a good reason why it hadn't been paid. I mowed EVERY Friday at exactly 1:00pm sharp. After his bill was past due for 60 days I didn't do his lawn. By 4:00pm that day I had a Voicemail from him asking where I was!?!? He had company coming over that night and it was not acceptable that I hadn't been there yet .I had a check by 4:45pm and his lawn got serviced.


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## doo-man (Feb 22, 2009)

Shoreline;1259599 said:


> Eat at their restaurant and when they bring the bill, tell them you simply don't have the money. I know, you would have to eat a lot of food to come close to what your bill is but just maybe they would get the picture. Sorry about your luck.


I think you should invite 30+ friends to a night out to eat there and when the bill comes hand her your invoice and say I think were covered !!!!!

I would also try to stay there by the register and tell them you will take your payments with every customers bill that is paid. Might be a little wait but I bet you would get your money !!!

I am currently going thru this with a few customers and I have about had it. I told them I would seek legal counsel if there is a resolution next week. They said there gonna look at the books and get me something !!!

Well something is better than nothing !!


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

Joe D;1259585 said:


> Ask the guy for a realistic date on payment and keep plowing.


I don't understand this mentallity. Their waitresses invest in a pair of black pants and a white shirt and they get paid every week....plus tips all day long. The cook invests an apron and he gets paid every week. I bring my truck, my plow, my salt, my shovels, my snow blower.....oh and I even pay people to have work done at THEIR PROPERTY. I'm the one that gets there an hour before anybody else shows up. And you say I should continue to work for them? Why?


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## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

The guy states that winter is slow and money is tight. I would remember that for next year and have a plan of payment ahead of time or each time service is rendered.This of course is if you even retain him for next year.
As for your current issue. I think you should talk with him and come up with a specific payment plan that will pay you off in lets say the next 2 months. Stop by every Saturday or whatever day for the payment. Give him a chance but don't let him miss a payment. In the meantime at least contact a lawyer to see what they suggest. Not sure how much is owed but I hope you can collect.


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

doo-man;1259642 said:


> I think you should invite 30+ friends to a night out to eat there and when the bill comes hand her your invoice and say I think were covered !!!!!
> 
> I would also try to stay there by the register and tell them you will take your payments with every customers bill that is paid. Might be a little wait but I bet you would get your money !!!
> 
> ...


I would need about 100 friends eating a nice dinner to say we were covered. But since I don't have a 100 friends that's not an option. But then again, if I said I'm buying Dinner, I just might find that many. haha


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

NBI Lawn;1259631 said:


> I find if funny that lawn and plowing is overlooked by customers all the time...until you are an hour late. They just expect it to be done and then take their time to pay it if they pay it at all. I had a residential mowing customer that owed for two months, large balance owed. I called mulitple times and never got a good reason why it hadn't been paid. I mowed EVERY Friday at exactly 1:00pm sharp. After his bill was past due for 60 days I didn't do his lawn. By 4:00pm that day I had a Voicemail from him asking where I was!?!? He had company coming over that night and it was not acceptable that I hadn't been there yet .I had a check by 4:45pm and his lawn got serviced.


You still serviced his lawn after that? I have a high pain tolerance level and not too many things get me worked up. But if I mowed for two months and don't get paid......then get a phone call saying it was unacceptable because I wasn't there on that day?.......I think I would have handled that differently then you did.


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## Winterized (Mar 3, 2007)

If the deadbeat is a person that you can go up to his house, do that a few times.

Supper time... weekends when they have a house full of guests... you get the picture.
Shame them out the money owed. Fine line to walk as to harassment I know, be careful.

Friend pumps poop and that's how he get's paid when all else fails.
Seems only accepting credit cards would be easier though.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

i would call him back, and work out a deal. Tell him its your policy for all accounts over 60 days to file law suit for lack of payment, file police report for theft of service, and to file a property lien on his property. Tell him you will gladly take small payments, even 100 bucks per week in exchange for him signing a payment aggreement admitting to owe the debit. have it be a stricked aggreement, and 1 missed or late payment will require a visit to court. Tell him look, i know times are tight, but you can either start paying me now and we can keep it friendly, or your going to have to pay your laywer to defend you, plus pay me.

which ever he chooses, understand...if you owes you money, he owes others. your more than likely not going to get it in a lump sum, and if it goes to court, it will be 120 days at a min before you see an course of major action happen to the point of collecting..and thats if you push hard. i have seen these situations drag out for 16 months before the person got their end. 

and in the spirit of helping others, if your dirrect cost of servicing his lot is low (IE - you plow it so there is no labor, and you dont salt) then i would contiune to do so. it will just make your number bigger for the court room.

you have to keep in mind that if they are really bad off, they may file for bell up, and in that case your the last person to get your get paid, and its unlikely, but if you start now you just may get the judge to award you payment sooner than that all takes place.


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## NBI Lawn (Oct 15, 2007)

DodgeBlizzard;1259701 said:


> You still serviced his lawn after that? I have a high pain tolerance level and not too many things get me worked up. But if I mowed for two months and don't get paid......then get a phone call saying it was unacceptable because I wasn't there on that day?.......I think I would have handled that differently then you did.


That account is huge for me though. I really hadnt had a problem with the guy in the past so I stopped mowing as a reminder more less. I still have the account, this will be the 8 season.


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

Shoreline;1259599 said:


> Eat at their restaurant and when they bring the bill, tell them you simply don't have the money. I know, you would have to eat a lot of food to come close to what your bill is but just maybe they would get the picture. Sorry about your luck.


I like that idea!!!!
DO IT


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## Dwan (Mar 24, 2004)

This is what small claims court is for. Minimum cost and even that cost is recoverable. you wind up with a judgment against them. Then they have to pay or you can sell there business for them and collect that way.
Most small claims court cases cost about $25 to file and 95% are settled before it goes to court. and you do not need a lawyer


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## Joe D (Oct 2, 2005)

DodgeBlizzard;1259690 said:


> I don't understand this mentallity. Their waitresses invest in a pair of black pants and a white shirt and they get paid every week....plus tips all day long. The cook invests an apron and he gets paid every week. I bring my truck, my plow, my salt, my shovels, my snow blower.....oh and I even pay people to have work done at THEIR PROPERTY. I'm the one that gets there an hour before anybody else shows up. And you say I should continue to work for them? Why?


Your picking apart the post. This all depends on if the thread started thinks they have been a good customer up to this point.


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## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

DodgeBlizzard;1259697 said:


> I would need about 100 friends eating a nice dinner to say we were covered. But since I don't have a 100 friends that's not an option. But then again, if I said I'm buying Dinner, I just might find that many. haha


The only problem I see with this idea is it puts you on the wrong side of the law.He could sue you and win

If somebody "steals " from you, you can not go " steal" from them its not how the law works although in the case of actual theft you can go take your property back.

You really have two options here.
1) work with the guy, get him to sign a payment agreement and wait until he has cash flow again to get your money. I know your not a bank none of us are. It's still better to have money owed and signed paper work, then a client telling you to kiss his a$$ he will see you in court.

2) put the guys balls in a vice and start cranking. If you decide you can't wait to get paid and want to be a ***** about it then harass him until you get paid. Show up on Friday and Saturday nights and demand at least some of your money. Do not pass go, go directly to the court house and file suit against him, serve him with notice of breach of contract and termination of service during the next snow storm.

Its up to you what option you choose, just remember what goes around comes around. I once had to float a client $5 grand for 8 months it really sucked. I could have been a dick and got paid but I waited because I thought he was good for the money.

Same client just sold off some 6 figure assets and can't wait to get me started on a several new no bid projects. YMMV


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

a customer who doesn't pay is not a good customer.


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## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

DodgeBlizzard-
Don't kid yourself, they're jerking you around. They have the money to pay you somehow, someway. I can't see any business running so tight they can't pay certain bills. If they are they should throw in the towel. They are just taking advantage of you and figure you'll do nothing, which you really haven't, so they aren't really concerned about you. Food vendor shut them down and put them on COD, you should have too a long time ago. At this point you need to hire a locaL COLLECTION AGENCY to bother them and give up a % to them to get it.


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## cold_and_tired (Dec 18, 2008)

Around here, the courts are against the contractors. If you make it in front of the judge, he will split the money owed in half and say "there is room for compromise in everything".

Unfortunately, I don't think you have any other choice. You offered to make payment arrangements for the guy and he refused. I would file a case for nonpayment and have the owner served.

9 times out of 10, things will get resolved in mediation. Personally, I feel that you shouldn't plow that contract anymore.


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

I have a very similar matter on a larger scale w/ a couple of properties for the same company. I have accumulated a long list of complaints from other vendors, employees and upper management, as well as a long list of safety violations/hazards on both properties. The properties that I service are 2 of 5 that the company owns in this town, and also are their biggest earners. One does 15mil per year, the other does 11-13 mil per month...so as bad as their other investments may be, they could pay me if they really, really wanted to. They own about 15 properties in 4 states, and the last couple that were bought, turned out to be bad investments...not my problem, but good to know.

A few weeks ago, I had to pull the no-show on them during an ice storm. It's not my style, but it's after exhausting all attempts to work something out, and having been lied to 3 times about payment being sent. So basically, I waited for the "where are you phone call" and then ended up in a meeting in the GM's office w/ several people crammed in the small office while everybody was begging and pleading w/ corporate from another state. Emails, phone texts, faxes and emergency phones were going like mad. I planted my ass firmly in the chair and wouldn't leave w/o something that I was satisfied with. They could have called the cops, I didn't care. An hour and a half later, I was handed a printed out email correspondence, which included request for funds from each person in the chain, including from the untouchable guy (who orders where payments are sent) that nobody is ever allowed to talk to...certainly not a vendor, let alone a GM. I now have all of his contact info, just in case they don't come through on their promise to pay. 

A couple of days later, I received my check as he promised. It's a fraction of what they owe me but it's a start. So, the info that I have collected and saved is for a back up plan, should they not deliver...I really, really hope it never comes to that. But like I told them, "if your ship is going down, I have no intention of sinking with you, but I will help you get their faster if I have reason to believe you're trying to screw me. I'm a reasonable guy, so please be reasonable w/ me and maintain an open line of communication...I will work w/ you, if your willing to work w/ me."


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## Plow Nuts (Jan 11, 2011)

We are in that situation now--all customers paid up but 1. They have not paid at all this year. Today they got 2nd notice of late payment, service interruption notice, voicemail to their accounts payable manager to this affect, and included in the voicemail is a little threat about a phone call to the company president--not a small company either--gotta love google people search. It was really frustrating because the last storm we had on feb 9th we made a judgement call since they were 30 days past due on 4 invoices and we cleared the property. We let the location manager know we should have terminated service at that storm, but since he has tried to help us get paid by HIS company we gave them the benifit of the doubt. now with 5gs out there and a Ap person who does not answer the phone, no snow to put back on the lot since it all melted, and now the location manager is getting pissed at us for the repeated calls to the point where we are getting ignored--it may be time to lawyer up, hammer em with late fees, and count them out for next season. Why is it the easy lots that are good money lots are the ones that are slow/no pays? On the other hand we had another customer want to re-negotiate their set price after we plowed. 250$ for the lot from 3-24" of snow. We cleared the lot with 10-15 inches 3x, 2 6-10" storms, and on the last 4 inch storm we get a call asking if we would take 100$ for plowing since it was only 4 inches of snow---THEY suggested the 250$ for 3-24" of snow--now they want to renig---very aggravating--but we are already dumping them after this season--that just sealed our decision for us. We performed a service that should have had a loader on the lot for, but we did out best with 2 trucks to save them some money as requested and the lot was clear to the asphalt 8am after each storm----NOW PAY US YOU D***!!!!!!!



Just my rant


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

It sucks when people aren't honest with you. I plow for a lady. She is super nice, and easy to work for. She has good communication with me. Sometimes she doesn't have enough money to make a payment, and others she sends me some extra to credit to her account. I don't mind people like her. It's just the people that don't talk to you about it. They annoy me.


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

Brant'sLawnCare;1262443 said:


> It sucks when people aren't honest with you. I plow for a lady. She is super nice, and easy to work for. She has good communication with me. Sometimes she doesn't have enough money to make a payment, and others she sends me some extra to credit to her account. I don't mind people like her. It's just the people that don't talk to you about it. They annoy me.


Exactly, when people are honest and attempts are made from both parties to work something out is fine by me. However when the lies start rolling it really pisses me off!


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## RdTeK (Feb 23, 2007)

elite1msmith;1259711 said:


> i would call him back, and work out a deal. Tell him its your policy for all accounts over 60 days to file law suit for lack of payment, file police report for theft of service, and to file a property lien on his property. Tell him you will gladly take small payments, even 100 bucks per week in exchange for him signing a payment aggreement admitting to owe the debit. have it be a stricked aggreement, and 1 missed or late payment will require a visit to court. Tell him look, i know times are tight, but you can either start paying me now and we can keep it friendly, or your going to have to pay your laywer to defend you, plus pay me.
> 
> which ever he chooses, understand...if you owes you money, he owes others. your more than likely not going to get it in a lump sum, and if it goes to court, it will be 120 days at a min before you see an course of major action happen to the point of collecting..and thats if you push hard. i have seen these situations drag out for 16 months before the person got their end.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I'm waiting for this Friday....one of my customers has been dodging me for the remainder of payment....and he has since sold his house which closes in 3 weeks....Friday is the d-day on payment....he has already been told that Monday, my lawyer will be filing a lien on the house......one way or the other, he's parting with that money.


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

RdTeK;1262544 said:


> This is exactly what I'm waiting for this Friday....one of my customers has been dodging me for the remainder of payment....and he has since sold his house which closes in 3 weeks....Friday is the d-day on payment....he has already been told that Monday, my lawyer will be filing a lien on the house......one way or the other, he's parting with that money.


How many days late is he from when you sent his invoice?


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## Landcare - Mont (Feb 28, 2011)

We operate strictly on a seasonal contract basis. Our contract price is based on a winter season of November 1st through April 30th (some contractors only go to March 15th or 31st). We divide the total into 5 instalments which we invoice and are payable on a monthly basis starting November 1st. If we haven't collected November's payment by mid-December, we start calling and reminding. If we haven't collected by January 1st, we get a little more proactive in our phone calls, reminding them that there's most likely a lot more snow to come. For most of our customers, salting and hauling are extra and invoiced and payable when requested and done. After 30 years, we have a great bunch of commercial, industrial and municipal customers, most of whom pay within 30 days unless longer terms are agreed to ahead of time. Something to think about.


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## dfdsuperduty (Dec 12, 2006)

Stop now before it gets out of control. I had a customer last year that on the advice from my attorney that I need to keep plowing now over $30k later I am still waiting for my money!


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## RdTeK (Feb 23, 2007)

DodgeBlizzard;1262567 said:


> How many days late is he from when you sent his invoice?


My service is seasonal with last payment no later than Jan 15, unless prior arrangements....I had to chase this guy last year as well for money......this dude's going through a divorce, things are rough....so I gave him until Mar 1 for final payment....so he put me off until this Friday....we'll keep you posted......Thumbs Up


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## live-for-snow (Jan 5, 2011)

Maybe we should start asking for a copy of there credit cards like a hotel does,or if you special order a part cause they don't want to be screwed with no payment, then after 90 days of no payment just add it to there credit card bill.


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

RdTeK;1262616 said:


> My service is seasonal with last payment no later than Jan 15, unless prior arrangements....I had to chase this guy last year as well for money......this dude's going through a divorce, things are rough....so I gave him until Mar 1 for final payment....so he put me off until this Friday....we'll keep you posted......Thumbs Up


So 45 days past due and you're ready to put a lien on his house? Just asking.


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

Update: Sunday night into Monday morning we got hit with a quick uncanny 10" of snow. The customer is in the middle of town, so of course I was watching to see who would be plowing the lot since we stopped doing it. I was surprised when the owner was the one out in the dark with a snow blower. But this storm started as rain, then slowly turned into wet snow, then all snow. You guys know what that's like with a two stage blower. It's not fun because it constantly clogs the chute. This photo was taken around 2 pm. About 10 hours after the storm ended. This is how the lot was left all day. Wouldn't you be worried about a slip and fall?


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## dayexco (Oct 30, 2003)

naaaaaaaaaaaaa.....it'll all be gone by noon tomorrow, and he saved $150


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## RdTeK (Feb 23, 2007)

DodgeBlizzard;1262811 said:


> So 45 days past due and you're ready to put a lien on his house? Just asking.


Sure....why not.....obviously he's not too worried about me getting paid when this is the second year I've had to chase him...he'll get over it.


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## dayexco (Oct 30, 2003)

RdTeK;1262861 said:


> Sure....why not.....obviously he's not too worried about me getting paid when this is the second year I've had to chase him...he'll get over it.


if you chased him for payment last year...wtf you here complaining THIS year about the guy not paying you?


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## Turf Commando (Dec 16, 2007)

doo-man;1259642 said:


> I am currently going thru this with a few customers and I have about had it. I told them I would seek legal counsel if there is a resolution next week. They said there gonna look at the books and get me something !!!
> 
> Well something is better than nothing !!


Court is a waste of time, they can stiff you still...!


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

you could always be the host of a plowsite dinner?????? just think of the guys who would berate this guy on your behalf hahaha


i would definately drop him and wait for a huge storm and go in and push his doors closed, but thats just me


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## JerseySnow (Feb 3, 2011)

F You Pay me works for me alot but im 6'4 285


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

JerseySnow;1263389 said:


> F You Pay me works for me alot but im 6'4 285


Goodfellas Plowing Service?????????


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

LoneCowboy;1263566 said:


> Goodfellas Plowing Service?????????


No,he'll just let Snookie sit there and talk to him until he cracks and pays up.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

i had the same thing happen to me. the Dec 26 storm bill is still unpaid.(3 ft of snow) he is on a bill after the storm, and pay within 7 days agreement, as he wanted it to be. when i called after 2 weeks of non payment, he said the same thing. i have no money, and can't pay you. this is the first time i took on a commercial account, because it was good money. $2,000 per snow event. 4 -25 car parking lots, with an in and out road, and 200 ft of sidewalk. plow, snowblower and shovel the walks, and salt everything, 
well, he did not get plowed out again, and no one else will plow him, because the word went out he stiffed me. 

last week i got a call from the town. he claimed i refused to plow his lot, and told everyone else not to do it to get out of the fines for not plowing the lot the Montessori school uses.
i explained the situation to the town code enforcement officer, who was very interested in what i had to say,and especially like the fact that i had sent the invoices registered signature required mail, and they refused to sign for delivery. he then told me the guy was disputing the fines for not clearing and saying it was my fault. 
he also told me he was going to tell the town council about how he stiffed me and then tried to turn it around and blame me.
last i heard the restaurant associated with the property is now closed, and 3 of the 12 Tenant's wave started proceedings to get out of their leases, one of them being the school


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

tjctransport;1263619 said:


> i had the same thing happen to me. the Dec 26 storm bill is still unpaid.(3 ft of snow) he is on a bill after the storm, and pay within 7 days agreement, as he wanted it to be. when i called after 2 weeks of non payment, he said the same thing. i have no money, and can't pay you. this is the first time i took on a commercial account, because it was good money. $2,000 per snow event. 4 -25 car parking lots, with an in and out road, and 200 ft of sidewalk. plow, snowblower and shovel the walks, and salt everything,
> well, he did not get plowed out again, and no one else will plow him, because the word went out he stiffed me.
> 
> last week i got a call from the town. he claimed i refused to plow his lot, and told everyone else not to do it to get out of the fines for not plowing the lot the Montessori school uses.
> ...


So you haven't been paid for about 74 days. What is your course of action to get your money? Better act soon cuz if tenants are bailing on their leases, he will have even less money to pay you.


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## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

I think anybody who has plowed has been in the position of chasing money for at least one account.
Hope you collect


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

DodgeBlizzard;1263675 said:


> So you haven't been paid for about 74 days. What is your course of action to get your money? Better act soon cuz if tenants are bailing on their leases, he will have even less money to pay you.


my course of action is unless he pays, i take a beating. it is not worth pursuing, because it will cost me more to collect than is owed. 
the only satisfaction i have is the fact that no one will plow for him if i don't get paid.
i made enough with the other trucks at other sites and with the town that it will not kill me.


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## JTK324 (Nov 4, 2008)

I actually went to a guys house once while he was haing sunday dinner with his family and stood in his kitchen and told him that it would be a good idea if he paid me and threatened to call the cops but after i had a little chat with and his very very upset wife they wrote me a check on the spot but i also had another customer tell me he had no money and i told him that he can go on a payment plan as long as i add 10 percent to the tab he said 5 i said sold because i just wanted my money


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

You commercial plowers have to have a minum that is paid up front to protect yourselves from deadbeats who can't pay. Let them know there has never been a winter where there wasn't at least x plow events costing y dollars and this is the minimum you need to sign up for your expert service.


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## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

jklawn&Plow;1264824 said:


> You commercial plowers have to have a minum that is paid up front to protect yourselves from deadbeats who can't pay. Let them know there has never been a winter where there wasn't at least x plow events costing y dollars and this is the minimum you need to sign up for your expert service.


this is a very good idea and does work well


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## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

jklawn&Plow;1264824 said:


> You commercial plowers have to have a minum that is paid up front to protect yourselves from deadbeats who can't pay. Let them know there has never been a winter where there wasn't at least x plow events costing y dollars and this is the minimum you need to sign up for your expert service.


FWIW, that would be illegal Massachusetts and probably many other states.


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## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

How many of you guys with collection problems have signed contracts?


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## JTK324 (Nov 4, 2008)

Biglou I'm only in rhode island and it's only illegal if you break in or cause some type of damage words are just word I've done it in mass before for my families business


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

tjctransport;1263743 said:


> my course of action is unless he pays, i take a beating. it is not worth pursuing, because it will cost me more to collect than is owed.
> the only satisfaction i have is the fact that no one will plow for him if i don't get paid.
> i made enough with the other trucks at other sites and with the town that it will not kill me.


Send it too collections if you don't want to mess with it. I havn't used these guys but when I spoke with them they seemed on the up and up. HIH

Aidex Recovery Group's collection team averages over 30 years of experience recovering commercial debts.

Listed below are just a few highlights of the services offered by Aidex.

· Below industry standard contingency rate - no contract to sign, no boarding fees, no hidden costs AND we don't get paid until you do! Rates may become reduced in the incident that large quantity of files are placed

Ø 0-6 months past due…………………18%
Ø 6 months - 1 year past due…….….20%
Ø 1 year - 2 years past due…….……..25%
Ø Over 2 years past due…………..……30%

· Average collection time of only 46 days on accounts less than a year old
· In-depth investigative research to determine any and all responsible parties
· Secure, 24-hour online client access to view all collection activity

Remember, if you are using a collection fee clause in your credit applications or invoices, the debtor company will be responsible for our fees and you receive the benefit of our services without paying a dime.

There is absolutely nothing for you to lose. Give us 1% of your trust, and we'll earn the other 99%.

Please contact me at 866-630-2694 ext 108 if you have any additional questions. I look forward to speaking with you soon.

Respectfully,

Ron Hardy
Senior Account Representative
Aidex Recovery Group
[email protected] 
Ph: 866-630-2694 Ext 108
Fax: 813-960-4092
Visit us at: www.aidexrecovery.com


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Send him a remote car starter key fob as a subliminal message.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

Mick76;1264978 said:


> Send it too collections if you don't want to mess with it.


a collection agency can not got blood from a stone.
the only way i will get anything if he does not pay is if i put a lien on the property. 
no income equals no money to pay out. 
he is in default on his Feb property tax payment to the tune of almost $75,000.
and this was with a signed contract.


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

tjctransport;1265001 said:


> a collection agency can not got blood from a stone.
> the only way i will get anything if he does not pay is if i put a lien on the property.
> no income equals no money to pay out.
> he is in default on his Feb property tax payment to the tune of almost $75,000.
> and this was with a signed contract.


$75,000 ouch!?.... but with the collections you'll have nothing to lose. There no fee unless you collect..... Not that I'm trying to tell you how to run you biz but if it was me I wouldn't just sit around HOPING to get my $... I'd be pursing any and all avenues...collections agency (let them bug him until he pays, lein (like you stated) unless he files chaper 11 then you'd be last on the list to be paid and probaly won't have enough $ to pay you, court to get a judgment then garnish the corp profits... I'm sure you get the idea..... 
Good luck as I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

Mick76;1265011 said:


> $75,000 ouch!?.... but with the collections you'll have nothing to lose. There no fee unless you collect..... Not that I'm trying to tell you how to run you biz but if it was me I wouldn't just sit around HOPING to get my $... I'd be pursing any and all avenues...collections agency (let them bug him until he pays, lien (like you stated) unless he files chaper 11 then you'd be last on the list to be paid and probaly won't have enough $ to pay you, court to get a judgment then garnish the corp profits... I'm sure you get the idea.....
> Good luck as I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.


he owes the town 75 grand. i am only owed $2,000
as i said, a collection agency is not gonna get me anything, because he has nothing left. 
the tax lien has already been sold, so it is like beating my head against the wall trying to collect. with the property lien, i expect to see my money in 4-5 years.


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

*Shubh hotels*

Dont bet on the property lien to get paid. I have been trying to get paid for 4 years on a hotel that defaulted on there loan. Shubh hotels walked away from there location here in cincy. I jumped thru all the hoops with the property lien and repeated request from the court crap. I have found myself as one of the defendants with the hotel against the bank on the 16 mill loan. The last magistrates decision pays the court first for cost, second the state of Ohio for taxes, third plaintiff 17 mill for the loan,fourth if any balance to be held by the sheriff pending further order of the court. There are 5 contractors that are not going to be paid for services we are talking over 1/4 mill of services. IT SUCKS to be one of them!!! This is over a 400 room hotel that has been vacant for 4 years and in this economy it will go for rock bottom price. The Bank always wins :yow!:


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## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

JTK324;1264961 said:


> Biglou I'm only in rhode island and it's only illegal if you break in or cause some type of damage words are just word I've done it in mass before for my families business


Words are just words, however collecting payment for a service before it's rendered will run you afoul of many consumer protection laws. Sadly there are no contractor protection laws :realmad:


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## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

fernalddude;1265566 said:


> Dont bet on the property lien to get paid. I have been trying to get paid for 4 years on a hotel that defaulted on there loan. Shubh hotels walked away from there location here in cincy. I jumped thru all the hoops with the property lien and repeated request from the court crap. I have found myself as one of the defendants with the hotel against the bank on the 16 mill loan. The last magistrates decision pays the court first for cost, second the state of Ohio for taxes, third plaintiff 17 mill for the loan,fourth if any balance to be held by the sheriff pending further order of the court. There are 5 contractors that are not going to be paid for services we are talking over 1/4 mill of services. IT SUCKS to be one of them!!! This is over a 400 room hotel that has been vacant for 4 years and in this economy it will go for rock bottom price. The Bank always wins :yow!:


Ultimately its the hard working taxpayer who pays for this


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## Dwan (Mar 24, 2004)

You can collect up front. It is called a retainer fee. Most every law office does it. It is all in what you call it.
Another option is what I have been doing for over 20 years and has worked out great.

My prices are about 10% higher then everyone in town but if accepted it figures out I am 2% less then most.

1. I offer a 10% discount if the customer pays me within 10 days of billing if he signs a 5 year contract.
2. a 5% discount if he signs a 3 year contract and pays me within 10 days of billing
3. and a 2% discount for a 1 year contract and payed within 10 days of billing.

for example lets say the going price is $120/hr my price is $132/hr. 
on a 5 year contract the customer can pay me $118.80/ hr if he pays me within 10 days of billing.
It is not much but it works and 90% of my customers pay on time every time.

If there should be any non pays I use small claims court. it cost me $25 to file. I am not alowed to have legal representation in the court nor is the customer. and there is a cap of $7500.00 per case.
I have used it once and for a $234.00 bill I was able to walk away with a jugment aginst the customer. The judge set a payment scedual which the customer did not keep so I filed the judgenebt aginst his Bobcat. Took it and sold it at public auction recovering all my costs including the court cost, the reposition and tow cost to pickup the bobcat, storage cost aginst the bobcat for 30 days, and auction cost. Total bill was $3200.00. The highest bid at auction was $1650.oo so I offered what is called an offset bid for the $3200 owed me and now have a bobcat.and we are even.
My total out of pocket funds was less then $500. 

With a Judgment you don't have to wait for him to do anything you can go after anything he ownes including any equipment, car, house, business, guns, bank account, most amything of value.

It is in your best interest to make a phone call to your county court and find out about "Small claims court" every state I have ever delt with has it available.it is just a phone call and no lawyer needed.


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

Stan;1262458 said:


> Exactly, when people are honest and attempts are made from both parties to work something out is fine by me. However when the lies start rolling it really pisses me off!


I feel the same exact way.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

JohnnyRoyale;1264993 said:


> Send him a remote car starter key fob as a subliminal message.


Ill have to remember that one. LOL. To be honest we have some late payers but we always get paid (touch wood).


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## hammerstein (Feb 2, 2007)

I just got a check in yesterdays mail (3/14/11) for an invoice that was dated 7/7/2009.


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## Winterized (Mar 3, 2007)

hammerstein;1267284 said:


> I just got a check in yesterdays mail (3/14/11) for an invoice that was dated 7/7/2009.


Now don't you feel foolish for worrying about not getting paid.....


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## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

late is better then never.


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

Must of got lost or maybe just couldn't pay till now. Did you send it to collections a long time ago?


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

*OP update*

Update: Called the owner yesterday to set up a meeting for 3pm today. I waited in the restaurant for 30 minutes. That was 30 minutes of my day wasted and I guess he was too busy for me. So I left there and went straight to the Magistrates Office. Unfortunately being Wednesday, they were closed this afternoon. As I'm in the parking lot, he leaves me a voice mail saying he is writing out checks and dating them for the next three consecutive weeks. Yeah, right. He also said he was going to send out a check two weeks ago even though he said he didn't have the money to pay me. I know where I will be going first thing tomorrow morning. Over 60 days without payment, I'm done being Mr. Nice Guy.


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## JTK324 (Nov 4, 2008)

Should have gone to him right then and there


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

JD Dave;1267171 said:


> Ill have to remember that one. LOL. To be honest we have some late payers but we always get paid (touch wood).


All my maintenance and snow customers pay promptly. I got screwed by one GC a few years ago for big money...that will be the last time that happens to me.


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## musclecarboy (Aug 19, 2007)

JohnnyRoyale;1268001 said:


> All my maintenance and snow customers pay promptly. I got screwed by one GC a few years ago for big money...that will be the last time that happens to me.


A good friend of mine was prepping papers for service when I went to see him last week. They're being sent to a GC on some commercial work from '09 and '10. $226k he is out on $680k of work. He said its starting to sting.


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## rooferdave (Jan 23, 2010)

here's a question...if a client is in arrears does that not void our slip and fall coverage? If so can we not point out "dear deadbeat, it has been brought to my attention that your account is in arrears, while we can still plow your property,unfortunatley:laughing: our insurer will not cover accounts in arrears" Then follow up with please bring your acc't up to date so we can inform our carrier and have your coverage re-instated.

can we, can we, huh huh?????


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

JD Dave;1267171 said:


> Ill have to remember that one. LOL. To be honest we have some late payers but we always get paid (touch wood).


This is a family site. No one wants to hear about you touching wood.


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

rooferdave;1268080 said:


> here's a question...if a client is in arrears does that not void our slip and fall coverage? If so can we not point out "dear deadbeat, it has been brought to my attention that your account is in arrears, while we can still plow your property,unfortunatley:laughing: our insurer will not cover accounts in arrears" Then follow up with please bring your acc't up to date so we can inform our carrier and have your coverage re-instated.
> 
> can we, can we, huh huh?????


Definitely make this part of the written contract they sign up front otherwise its just a wish and a dream interpretable under the law by the current magistrate at hand.


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## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

DodgeBlizzard;1267962 said:


> Update: Called the owner yesterday to set up a meeting for 3pm today. I waited in the restaurant for 30 minutes. That was 30 minutes of my day wasted and I guess he was too busy for me. So I left there and went straight to the Magistrates Office. Unfortunately being Wednesday, they were closed this afternoon. As I'm in the parking lot, he leaves me a voice mail saying he is writing out checks and dating them for the next three consecutive weeks. Yeah, right. He also said he was going to send out a check two weeks ago even though he said he didn't have the money to pay me. I know where I will be going first thing tomorrow morning. Over 60 days without payment, I'm done being Mr. Nice Guy.


did you go today?


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

Sure did. It cost me $ 101.50 to file it at the Magistrates office. But I will get that back when I win the case. Since 1994, this is only the 2nd time I've had to do this.


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

Considering the economy, i imagine he has much bigger problems than you at the moment.

Its worth a shot to try to collect, but I wouldnt hold your breath.


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

Reminds me of a cutomer I had cutting his lawn. As I glanced into the picture window he was watching his 60 inch flat screen with the Sabres on. Payments were 2 months late. I knew I'd get paid I hoped but I knew there were some job issues-been there-but thought. Oh I'm down there below the cable bill (I mean Hockey is a higher priority than the lawn, right?) but I'm out there workin for no late charge.
Meanwhile at my house standard cable 22 channels - no Hockey-I've since upgraded but what is with people being practical and living within their means, the dinosaurs.


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

procut1;1268619 said:


> Considering the economy, i imagine he has much bigger problems than you at the moment.
> 
> Its worth a shot to try to collect, but I wouldnt hold your breath.


Well I just became a little more of a priority.


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## Pauliewog (Jan 8, 2010)

I do mostly residential - a lot of it-130 accounts. A few small commercial ones. The only collection issues I have is the commercial accounts. Home owners are grateful, and want to pay yesterday. Commercial? You are just another bill......


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## Superior Snow (Mar 29, 2011)

In Commercial 30 seems to mean 60 to everyone these days and it gets worse every year. I had a couple accounts complain about their service this year and I ask how they were doing on their payments and all of a sudden the check shows up and now I will be more than happy to give you the better service. Except for 1 account, I have come to the conclusion that they are not going to finish paying there bill as it is out 370 days now....but they did give me 36 new shovels after 365days. So maybe next year when they are out 700 days on the balance of the payment I will get the rest in shovels again!


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