# What are you spraying?



## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

What liquid are you spraying and what's your cost per gallon? We sprayed a Calcium chloride based natural mineral well brine with beet juice mixed in last year with good results but it's pretty pricey at .80 per gallon. They claim you only need to spray 45 gals per acre but we always went heavier.

Curious what you guys are using and costs. Hoping to find a cost effective product that doesn't require 100 gals per acre.


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

Bossman 92;1822408 said:


> What liquid are you spraying and what's your cost per gallon? We sprayed a Calcium chloride based natural mineral well brine with beet juice mixed in last year with good results but it's pretty pricey at .80 per gallon. They claim you only need to spray 45 gals per acre but we always went heavier.
> 
> Curious what you guys are using and costs. Hoping to find a cost effective product that doesn't require 100 gals per acre.


Is the brine/beet juice all you used last year or you still used salt? I always wanted to try this mixture. Did you spray it before a storm as well as after?


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

We used salt as well. We sprayed the salt before we loaded it and sometimes sprayed the salt as it was leaving the drag chain. We had real good results doing that but would like to get away from salt where at all possible. We did spray some of our lots with pretty good results. Where it really shined was on walks.


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

Bossman 92;1822519 said:


> We used salt as well. We sprayed the salt before we loaded it and sometimes sprayed the salt as it was leaving the drag chain. We had real good results doing that but would like to get away from salt where at all possible. We did spray some of our lots with pretty good results. Where it really shined was on walks.


yea I want to get away from salt also besides using it to make brine. did the lots that you sprayed clear off cleaner with the plow or did you only spray them if it was a dusting or freezing rain? because I wanna be able to spray a lot and walks before a storm and they clean off nicely and also spray if a dusting or freezing rain comes and I know the product will work and I don't have to go to the sites in the middle of the night


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

We only sprayed after we plowed or shoveled. When we sprayed after we plowed it took a little while (less than 30 mins) to melt everything off. When we sprayed after we cleared walks it worked much quicker because we sprayed much heavier....I assume that's why it worked quicker. Spraying after we did walks the walks were clear in just a few minuets. 

Now that I think back I did spray a lot when we had a pretty heavy snow squall blow thru ( 1/2" in 15 mins). I started spraying almost as soon as it started....the snow fell....and then melted off within 20 minuets but I sprayed very heavy.

By far the best results we saw were when we treated our bulk with the liquid. One storm in particular I treated a 5 acre lot with treated bulk just before it started snowing...I waited until the storm was finished (about 4 hours) and returned to plow off the roughly 2" of snow that had fallen. When I got back the lot was completely wet except for 2 small areas the I had missed while salting. Now that was a Sunday storm that fell during the middle of the day with temps in the upper 20's.


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

i believe we are gonna get salt from a guy by us which is treated with beet juice, as they call it ice bite. he also sells the brine/beet juice mix ima try and convince my dad to buy a few gallons and try it on sidewalks.

hey thanks for the info bossman


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

No problem.

What are you guys using to treat your walks?


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

We always just used bulk salt, take the spinner off the salter and dump into buckets. But wanna give the liquid a try at least at 1 site with sidewalks


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

We were using bagged products costing somewhere between $8 and $14 depending on what we used. We switched to liquid last year and will never go back. One property we were using close to $225in product each event. We switched to liquid and cut that down to about $50.


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

Thats a heck of savings, the best salt I ever used was landscaper choice, i loved that stuff, we had a big tote bag of that stuff we dumped into our 2yd saltdogg, I got done plowing and spreaded it starts melting instantly.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Word of warning about the beet juice it can easily be tracked inside when you're using it on the walks or near entrances... Our floors are permanently? Stained from when we tried it out a few years ago and it was on trucks as they were brought inside...


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## iPlowNH (Mar 10, 2014)

dodgegmc1213;1822594 said:


> i believe we are gonna get salt from a guy by us which is treated with beet juice, as they call it ice bite. he also sells the brine/beet juice mix ima try and convince my dad to buy a few gallons and try it on sidewalks.
> 
> hey thanks for the info bossman


How did that Ice Bite work out? I ordered a tote of it but it hasn't came in yet after 5 weeks. Not sure if I want to keep waiting or just go back to Magic Salt.


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

iPlowNH;2066221 said:


> How did that Ice Bite work out? I ordered a tote of it but it hasn't came in yet after 5 weeks. Not sure if I want to keep waiting or just go back to Magic Salt.


Works great, there's a few times it crusted and froze a little in the salters but I believe the guy had wet salt to begin with. It works pretty quick when you apply it. This year we're trying the brine/ice bite mix for anti-icing and the truck that has that system will also you it for de-icing at their sites. There's a chance that we'll be using magic in the salt trucks, the guy we are subbing from uses it and said he can give it to us for a better price then the other guy with ice bite who was at $164/yd last year which killed us


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## iPlowNH (Mar 10, 2014)

dodgegmc1213;2066237 said:


> Works great, there's a few times it crusted and froze a little in the salters but I believe the guy had wet salt to begin with. It works pretty quick when you apply it. This year we're trying the brine/ice bite mix for anti-icing and the truck that has that system will also you it for de-icing at their sites. There's a chance that we'll be using magic in the salt trucks, the guy we are subbing from uses it and said he can give it to us for a better price then the other guy with ice bite who was at $164/yd last year which killed us


I like magic salt. The guy here sells it high and doesn't put enough liquid in it. I wanted to try beet juice because I saw it at the GIE this year. I've heard more bad than good about it. Don't know what is true. I would use it to pretreat with brine, spray sidewalks and treat bulk salt. I was told by a guy here that it'll freeze the salt solid tho. Magic had magnesium in so less likelihood. At what temps did yours get crusty?


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

iPlowNH;2066243 said:


> I like magic salt. The guy here sells it high and doesn't put enough liquid in it. I wanted to try beet juice because I saw it at the GIE this year. I've heard more bad than good about it. Don't know what is true. I would use it to pretreat with brine, spray sidewalks and treat bulk salt. I was told by a guy here that it'll freeze the salt solid tho. Magic had magnesium in so less likelihood. At what temps did yours get crusty?


I didn't watch the Temps at all but it was mainly nights or really cold days. We had alot more magic freeze then ice bite. Ice bite thawed quicker and easier to break up, the magic was solid, again everything depends on how wet the plain salt is, if it's dry and the mixture is right it shouldn't freeze. We also found out a few years ago the local guy with magic was adding water to make it go further and make more money


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## iPlowNH (Mar 10, 2014)

dodgegmc1213;2066255 said:


> I didn't watch the Temps at all but it was mainly nights or really cold days. We had alot more magic freeze then ice bite. Ice bite thawed quicker and easier to break up, the magic was solid, again everything depends on how wet the plain salt is, if it's dry and the mixture is right it shouldn't freeze. We also found out a few years ago the local guy with magic was adding water to make it go further and make more money


That sucks. I wouldn't put it past our guy either. He probably only mixes 3 gallons per yard. It's light colored but still works better than plain salt. I wanted to be a distributor for Ice Bite here but wasn't sure how it compared to magic.
what are its potential cons when compared with magic salt 50/50 ( the magic with Magnesium in it )


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

iPlowNH;2066289 said:


> That sucks. I wouldn't put it past our guy either. He probably only mixes 3 gallons per yard. It's light colored but still works better than plain salt. I wanted to be a distributor for Ice Bite here but wasn't sure how it compared to magic.
> what are its potential cons when compared with magic salt 50/50 ( the magic with Magnesium in it )


I actually didn't know magnesium was in it. I do know magic if used just as liquid the ground and air temperatures have to be just right. My dad years ago for his boss sprayed a stop n shop with magic before a storm and the temperature was around 33 34, the fire department called and said people were sliding all over the place and crashing. If the temperature is 32 or below it would be fine but slightly warmer it's like ice. Weird


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## plowin21532 (Sep 26, 2012)

What is the cost of the beet juice and what percentage are you blending? Does it stain lots or areas where it is tracked?


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## winterwonderland (Oct 26, 2016)

Try Entry from SynaTek. It is a non chloride liquid. It goes out at a gallon per 1,000 sq ft and can be used as a pre-treat and post treat. It is non tracking, non corrosive and will not harm vegetation. 




http://www.synateksolutions.com/entry-12-16/


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## LogansLawnCare (Aug 3, 2007)

winterwonderland said:


> Try Entry from SynaTek. It is a non chloride liquid. It goes out at a gallon per 1,000 sq ft and can be used as a pre-treat and post treat. It is non tracking, non corrosive and will not harm vegetation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just ordered some, I hope that the results are as good as they look in the video. I will let you guys know if it is worth it or not once it comes in.


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## iPlowNH (Mar 10, 2014)

winterwonderland said:


> Try Entry from SynaTek. It is a non chloride liquid. It goes out at a gallon per 1,000 sq ft and can be used as a pre-treat and post treat. It is non tracking, non corrosive and will not harm vegetation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what were the ground temps tho"? It looked like first storm of the season so ground temps maybe been close to 32 or maybe even slightly higher. Heck warm water would give the same result.


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## winterwonderland (Oct 26, 2016)

How about this one?


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## winterwonderland (Oct 26, 2016)

!plowNH, you make a valid point about ground temps. What you watched was a chemical reaction. the Entry product rapidly and aggressively breaks the hydrogen bridges that form snow. Snow flakes are made of thousands of hydrogen bridges and what Entry does is break them apart so that they can no longer form snow. Ground temps have very little to do with the products performance. It has a freeze point of -72 degrees. it is a very advanced ice melter.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

LogansLawnCare said:


> I just ordered some, I hope that the results are as good as they look in the video. I will let you guys know if it is worth it or not once it comes in.


Hows the pricing? The problem with these "non chloride" melters is often the price ie potassium formates,acetates etc.Airports use a lot of these because of a need to protect the planes etc from corrosive effects of chlorides.If I could get these for under 3$ a gallon it might be worth a try.Most clients are only worried about price,so I'm stuck using standard chlorides and damn the enviroment lol


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## LogansLawnCare (Aug 3, 2007)

leigh said:


> Hows the pricing? The problem with these "non chloride" melters is often the price ie potassium formates,acetates etc.Airports use a lot of these because of a need to protect the planes etc from corrosive effects of chlorides.If I could get these for under 3$ a gallon it might be worth a try.Most clients are only worried about price,so I'm stuck using standard chlorides and damn the enviroment lol


It is not cheap. We have a couple of accounts that are particular with what products that they want put down so we ordered a few gallons to try out. It should be delivered today so next storm I will let you know if the results are worth the price or not. If you are looking for something at the $3 price per gallon range this probably isn't the product for you. I will say that customer service was great though.


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## winterwonderland (Oct 26, 2016)

The product is not one that would be sprayed over an entire facility. It was really designed to be a very targeted product to accomplish a few key agenda items. First, we would recommend using the product in the first 15 feet of all entry ways into the buildings. It will not track and has a neutral pH. This is important because chlorides have a pH of 12 to 13 which is equal to that of floor stripper. The result is no granular chlorides being tracked into the building and no damage to inside floors. Second, it will not corrode metals or harm plants. Those 2 features are usually displayed in the entry of the building. If you just focus on that area as well as steps and high dollar building material areas the cost is easy to justify. Most entry way applications will cost you about $2.00 an application using Entry. It is well worth it. I have had the pleasure of speaking to many members on this site and I can say it did not surprise me by how many of you have faced litigation regarding damaging the interior floors or metal at a building. We are not recommending this product as a stand alone, we just want to offer you an amazing tool for your tool belt to combat some extremely frustrating areas of the snow removal process. We do have a full line of high tech granular products that would be excellent in the other areas as well as brine additives to heat up your mixes. I hope that clears up some questions about the product and it's intent. A case will go a very long way if you stick to the above methods and areas. Any questions please feel free to let me know. Thanks for the compliment on our customer service. We value and work very hard for our customer base!!


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Is it AMS 1435 qualified?


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## winterwonderland (Oct 26, 2016)

The base of the product is but the AMS 1435 certification is product specific. We manipulate the pH and add droplet technology to the base to make Entry. Since we have targeted walkways and not runways for this product we did not put it through the certification process. Any changes or additions to a certified product requires recertification, we have designed this product for walk ways, parking decks and high value areas. The base is certified. I hope that answers your question.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

I'll have to check with the airport manager. The whole airport, not only runways, taxiways, and ramps, but also entrance roads, parking lots, walkways, etc. is a no-salt area. I've been looking for a product that was cheaper than $16 per gallon in 5 gallon pails (Alpine RF-11). I don't need thousands of gallons where the price would be $6 or so a gallon (Cryotech E36). I want to spray walkways into hangars from the parking lots and a line outside the hangars about 1' wide x 315 feet long where dripping off the roof refreezes where it hits cold pavement.

What is the base?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

What is the base?[/QUOTE] Potassium formate.


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## winterwonderland (Oct 26, 2016)

Potassium Formate


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