# hey guys, i'm a 1 man show



## monson770 (Dec 18, 2010)

just wanted to see what everyone thinks about 1 man opperations. my finger is all bandaged up from salmmin it in a door, so i have time to type, slowly.... 

i know a lot of companies are feeling pressure this year. my uncle has a big opperation and has told me he's angry with all of the lowballers, bassically stealing his biz this year. and it just sounds like its getting worse...

what i am wondering is if it is more proffitable to stick with what 1 guy can do, as far as amount of jobs/quality of them. rather than have huge jobs that require a lot of other people.. seems like my season was not as affected by the big storms, as far as costs vs. revenue. i only do 5 commercial lots (3 office buildings,1coffee house, and a best western), and have 8 drives this year but will have arouund 13 drives next year. i know i dont make as much per year, but it sounds like the big guys actually LOST money... i think i only lost money on 1 storm, i had to have someone comewith for a couple of 8 hr shifts to shovel, while i plowed.. everything got done, and i was out about 50 bucks after the storm was over.. but the rest of teh season has evend that out.. i actually made some money this year. 


i will say that almost all of teh driveway cleints i hear about are all about who can do it for the cheapest.. well, if you want it done there are two ways to do it, cheap, and correctly...

kudos to all of those who have a list of good clients, treat them right and hopefully the golden rule will apply to you as well..


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Congrats too you, but I'm confused. 5 commercial lots, 8 drives, But you lost $50 on an 8 hour shift?


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## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

There are advantages to being small or even a 1 man show. The biggest is when it snow you know you will be there. The down side to being small is you limit yourself to how much money you can make, and how many customers you can have. I have been both small 1 man show type busines, then I decided to grom my business, bring on more trucks, get some full time employees, and so on. Now the way I looked at it was I can service more customers, and get my name out there, I can keep growing. Now say I make or profit 25 dollars per hour per employee, I can reap the rewards and put even more money back into my business, and grow even more. Now I am finding the downside to that is way more stress, and never enough rest. So to sum up what I am saying, it's really up to you and what your comfortable with as to if you want to grow and be multi truck, or if you want to stay a 1 man show and make what you can make. Either way I can think of many advantages.


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## monson770 (Dec 18, 2010)

elite1msmith;1240183 said:


> Congrats too you, but I'm confused. 5 commercial lots, 8 drives, But you lost $50 on an 8 hour shift?


it was 2 - 8 hr shifts, i paid out 160 bucks to my shoveler and from waht i made that storm minus expenses = i paid 50 bucks to plow that entire storm, no money in my pocket.. it was a 3 day storm... i know i could charge a lil more here and there for drives, and have since adjusted my rates and informed all of my clients of the changes.. everyone agreed to my rate changes and so i continue, hopefully to not lose money again...


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## greyst1 (Sep 26, 2010)

How did you lose money on 13 accounts and why do you need a shoveler? I basically have the same setup (accounts wise) and i don't need a shoveler and didn't lose money. Curious about the details


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## NicholasMWhite (Oct 5, 2008)

monson770;1240200 said:


> it was 2 - 8 hr shifts, i paid out 160 bucks to my shoveler and from waht i made that storm minus expenses = i paid 50 bucks to plow that entire storm, no money in my pocket.. it was a 3 day storm... i know i could charge a lil more here and there for drives, and have since adjusted my rates and informed all of my clients of the changes.. everyone agreed to my rate changes and so i continue, hopefully to not lose money again...


This makes no sense. You paid the shoveler $160. In a 3 day storm you used a max of $200 in fuel. Maybe another $200 in salt. What other expenses are you considering? So by my math that means you only grossed $510 over a 3 day storm?? We had a 2 day storm here. I made $3000+ and didn't have any shoveler and didn't use any salt.

Am I misunderstanding something???


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## forbidden (Dec 22, 2010)

If you had to pay out $160 to your shoveller for a 8 hour shift, I see nothing wrong with that. He is doing manual crap labour outside in the cold (I pay $13.50 to my low end guy and $16.50 to my high end guy and others inbetween). What I do find wrong is that you had to throw in a extra $50.00 out of your jeans to break even. If this is the case, ALL of your contracts are too cheap. You are in business to make money, not lose money, not break even, not to be the clients best friend.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

monson770;1240200 said:


> it was 2 - 8 hr shifts, i paid out 160 bucks to my shoveler and from waht i made that storm minus expenses = i paid 50 bucks to plow that entire storm, no money in my pocket.. it was a 3 day storm... i know i could charge a lil more here and there for drives, and have since adjusted my rates and informed all of my clients of the changes.. everyone agreed to my rate changes and so i continue, hopefully to not lose money again...


Knoweleg always comes with a price doesn't it.... It's nice to see someone that is smart enough to figure costs and nip the problems in the butt while your still small. If you keep that type of thought process and can improve your planning to avoid these situations, then you should do very well in business


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## Jacobsmovinsnow (Jan 12, 2011)

Wanna relieve the stress of a expanding snow removal business . Ensure that every employee is familiar with all the sites. Switch em around, along with different equipment . Get them familiarized with all aspects of the job. That way no one begins to think they are Gods gift to your business and if someone quits you can juggle the lineup to make up for the absence. Also if the owner gets sick or has to leave, the job will still get done right. Works for me.


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

1 man show here - there are benefits as stated and stresses - when I break down It's stressful as all heck, but I have a friend that I have made an agreement with to cover each other when we each have issues.

I gotta say- based on your above I agree with the other guys- you're way too cheap. You're not making money my friend. If you're only making $110 profit after expenses after a 3 DAY STORM you're going out of business and just don't know it yet. Figure out how many hours you worked that storm, for the moment forget the shovel guy you hired, and divide the hours by the profit- looks like you worked (paid yourself) less than $5/hour to me. That's stay at home warm with the feet up on the couch type money.
Rough (really rough) guess, with all resi and a very short list this year, I'm pulling about $75/hour profit and it should be higher.


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## KEC Maintaince (Jan 1, 2011)

heres a good tip get a snowblower.
there is absoluty no way any one should have a shovel snow shovel is for stairs and around places blower and plow cannot get. 
the last big storm we had i picked up 2 high school kids 10 bucks/hr each i used them for 2 hrs got 3 big drives done and a 5 family apt with a screwed up configuration. 2 big stairs and long drive with 7 cars in it
i made 500 bucks and paid them total 40 bucks plus some iced tea and lemonade
yes they shoveled i snow blew everything else


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## monson770 (Dec 18, 2010)

to reply to everyone thats inquiring about how my situation makes sense, i am a small 1 man opperation. i am in my 3rd year, and am only gaining a few jobs a year by word of mouth. i do not advertise, at least haven't yet. my main source of income is obviously not plowing, my dad owns commercial property's and i'm the maintenance guy he contracts to when it's something i can do. (not a plumber or electrician, nor could i fix heat/ac). so mostly i do the asthetic maintenance, plowing, mowing, painting, cleaning, deconstruction, and most of the buildout construction. 

so as for how much i charge for plowing, and what kind of lots i have. 3 out of 5 commercial lots have about 30-45 minutes of shoveling and salting to do, the plowing on those lots is about .75-1.25hrs depending on storm size. so when there is 8-10 inches on the ground it helps keep me on track to have a buddy come shovel for me, the reason i "get away" with paying 10 bucks an hr is i pay them the entire time they are with me. not the smartest idea, i know, but its the only way to get someone to cmoe out with you once in a blue moon... the lots pay for an average of 13 snowfalls (plowable) per season, as thats what i was told by the older guys as being the average to go off of. so i figure out how long the lot takes to plow, add in fuel, salt, and shoveling time (can't charge 60perhr for shoveling, duh), and i get the number i multiply by 13 and give them a season rate. for drives however, they vary because of size, and shovling amounts. so my "cheap labor" ended up sitting for about half or more of each 8 hr shift.... needless to say if i hadn't had someone to come help me shovel, i would have fallen behind and had less than happy clients.. so i bit the bullet and paid 50 out of my pocket to do the quality job i promised. workiing for 3 days and paying out is not my idea of a biz. but i see my situation here as i am doing the job as promised, and this time i just got unlucky. i did however pick up another commercial lot because someone else in that same storm, must have fallen behind and did a horrible job.... gave me a chance, and he almost seemed stary eyed after i cleaned it up..

all in all i am learing how to mix commercial and resi plowing. it has costs me money but it will be making me more money as i keep learniing how to keep cost down and maximize profit.


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## shoeman68 (Oct 18, 2007)

I don't know what's going on. I have been reading a lot of these posts lately. "I don't make money" "lowballers' etc. etc..

For the guys struggling, I have been there. If you are not making money this year,( in most areas snow has been above avg.) You need some good advise or a look in the mirror.

I landscape the other 7-8 months of the year and I KNOW snow plowing, removal, and hauling is far more profitable, margin wise.

Making friends with people in your industry will always help you. Taking business courses and a local Voc. Tech. at night, automobile maintenance courses, etc... Educate yourself in every aspect of running a business. You will be wearing many hats!

Good Luck to all of you starting out. As I once heard, " If being self-employed was so easy, everyone would be."


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## Bison (Dec 20, 2010)

Oneman show here too. 38 resis and one small lot, no shoveling. The only time I really suffer is long duration storms,( it's hard to sneak a little sleep in) or if something breaks but I,m fortunate to have a back up truck. Get your pricing better and you'll do alright. After all you can break even sitting on a couch or sleeping in a nice warm bed and your truck doesn't get all beat up.


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

3 office buildings a coffee house and a hotel. Plus 8 houses.  Im confused how that adds up to only a couple hundred dollars a storm.


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## D&E (Nov 7, 2010)

procut1;1240417 said:


> 3 office buildings a coffee house and a hotel. Plus 8 houses. Im confused how that adds up to only a couple hundred dollars a storm.


 Something's up here.


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## plowfever (Nov 2, 2010)

I was a multiple truck operation for the last ten years. Here in Indiana I had a very hard time finding quality help and just got to stressed out and felt like it wasn't worth all the headaches. I had 6 trucks, one hoe with 12' box, and two skidders running last year. I had three very large factories, two big nursing home and about 30 small commercial properties that we plowed last season. We billed per hour at $55-65 for trucks and skids and 120 for hoe. We averaged making close to 60,000-80,000 year gross. For south central Indiana we were king of the snow. But I got tired of all the headaches and decided this year I was going back to the way I started and just do as much as I could handle myself and one part time guy (my dad or uncle). Now being the middle of February I have realized this is so much nicer. I get to sleep more, make more profit and my customers I kept are tickled pink. I miss having all the equipment and making a ton of money but to me life is more than the mighty dollar and I'm more happy now than I have been in 5-6 years.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

If you want to make money ,get rid of your guys shoveling and plow only places that need plowing. Since plowing is not your main money maker,raise your rates and see what happens. Also please lean how to type a little better,please.


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## peterng (Apr 13, 2006)

holy sufferin man who do those sweater puppies belong to? I think I need to find her calander for the shop.
Thanks,
Pete


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## Fourbycb (Feb 12, 2009)

There is nothing wrong with being a 1 man operation, I am I have 9 commerical accounts and 19 driveway's. All of my accounts are basically just a plowable customer and just a couple require any shoveling. I dont consider my self a low baller as I have not aquired a new account in 4 years and most of my other accounts are over 13 years old. I would say take on only what you can handle by yourself for a few years and then is you feel comfortable then upgrade and expand. Stay small at first quality is better than quanity and quality will bring you quanity
Best of luck


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## plowfever (Nov 2, 2010)

That is so true and I don't think I could have said it any better. I grew so fast and my quality slipped. I am now going to grow slow and steady and will probably get to maybe three or four trucks and a hoe and skid and that will be big enough for me. I felt like I had to start over basically to get back to where I wanted my quality to be. Like I said it was nice making all that money but I wasn't as happy as I am now. Quality to me is worth a ton more than doing three times the work but every thing looks like poop.


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## bhmjwp (Dec 12, 2005)

Please leave all the plow/shovel accounts for me, I love them. No one wants them and I charge out the same for both. I pick up premium accts due to the sidewalks. I only wish the cities would enforce their sidewalk ordinance. More money!


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Is it just me or what but I think some people are actually afraid of making money.Why I don't know,you have to do your homework,see what the rates are in your area if you're green,get advice,opinions,whatever it takes to be profitable.Not patting myself on the back but I graduated from the school of hard and harder knocks where the only degree you get is a check.Period.I hope everyone enjoys the most profitable plowing season ever,as I know I have. Monson---RAISE YOUR PRICE STRUCTURE,not only for yourself but to keep plowing a ''profession'' for all of us.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

elite1msmith;1240213 said:


> Knoweleg always comes with a price doesn't it.... It's nice to see someone that is smart enough to figure costs and nip the problems in the butt while your still small. If you keep that type of thought process and can improve your planning to avoid these situations, then you should do very well in business


Just curious--how does one ''nip problems in the butt?'':laughing::laughing::salute:


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## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

Have you thought about the cost of repairs and truck replacement. If your barely making it now what will happen when you have some costly repairs, I think you need to charge more


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## Plow Nuts (Jan 11, 2011)

Monson.........Good God man how did you lose money on a 3 day storm??? You have to think of your truck as aTaxi------if the engine is running so is the meter. If I read your post right then I am thinking you are charging an hourly rate of 60-75$ and only charging your commercial properties for .75-1.25 hours on average? You are doing a commercial lot for 60-100$?? There is now way you are covring your costs or Making any money! You must be working to keep fuel in the truck and pay your insurance premium. We are a 2 man 2 truck operation and so far this season we are 10k+ in profit. We have 1 large 2 acre commercial lot, 3 1 acre commercial lots, 1 .5 acre commercial, 12 residentials, and we sub for 2 .5 acre commerical lots. It takes us 18+ hours to do our rounds start to finish during heavy storms--12+ inches. We clear thousands in profits each storm we plow. We are almost at our capacity as far as what we can service after a storm in a reasonable amount of time. We were going to bring a shoveler the last storm but he was a no show. We would have gladly pad him his 15$ per hour for the entire time he was with us and would have stil made plenty of money. If you a plowing a commercial lot of anything over 20 parking spaces and getting under 200$ for it each snowfall-- I don't see how it could be profitable or even worth it for you to start the truck let alone drop the blade. We got the greedy bug and subbed for a guy whose "truck broke down" ( we knew it was a load of BS). We had finished up early and got flagged down by him. We agreed to plow 2 dunkin donuts lots--about 30-35 parking spaces each lot for a total of 250$...yes I know toooooo cheap, but we figured it was on the way home, he was paying cash, and 250 extra for an hours work with 2 trucks was worth it. He led us on with " I am working on 6 more D&D and we can work something out for you guys to cover all 8 for me--the dangling carrot. We only plowed ther lots--he did the shoveling and salting. The downside was the next storm he was blowing up our phones because he only wanted to pay 1x for us to plow the lots 1x--at the end of the storm. The last flake fell and he was calling asking where we were and why we were not at the 2 D&D's clearing them. We explained to him we had 5 other lots we are contracted to clear and reminded him he did not want a contract with us--he wanted to call us as needed. We dropped him after the 10th phone call screaming at us saying if we are not there in 10 minutes he will find someone else --which we had told him to do 7 calls ago. Moral of the story---if getting up all all hours of the night, plowing for 30+ hours straight, covering fuel, breakdowns, and insurance is not built into your price you need to do some restructuring fast!!!!! I am befuddled by plowing 3 days and losing 50$ because you paid a shoveler 160$. HOW is that possible??????????????????????


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

tuney443;1240612 said:


> Just curious--how does one ''nip problems in the butt?'':laughing::laughing::salute:


He said he raised it, that was well before his post, he was smart enough to figure that much out on his own. I don't know his new pricing he didn't post it, I'm sure that if he lost money before,...was smart enough to stop , figure it out, and make a change.......then even if he's still too low, given time he will again stop ,anolize and make changes until it fits him. Most people would wait until 3-4 years then after their equiptment is faked up, and they had no money...go sht. Good on him for taking the time to figure it out, even if it was after the fact. All he needs to do is think forward a little more


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## D&E (Nov 7, 2010)

peterng;1240559 said:


> holy sufferin man who do those sweater puppies belong to? I think I need to find her calander for the shop.
> Thanks,
> Pete


:laughing::laughing: Oh man I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.


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## Dr Who (Dec 16, 2010)

I am a one man snow, I do not have that many lots now, I lost several do to non payment. 
I would like to grow some. just have 2 trucks, but that is it. 
Yes the bigger you are company wise the more money you can make, but again it costs more money to operate. 
The more you grow, the mors it costs to stay in business, but if you are small, you make small money, but your profits are more and the stress level is a lot lower.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

elite1msmith;1240722 said:


> He said he raised it, that was well before his post, he was smart enough to figure that much out on his own. I don't know his new pricing he didn't post it, I'm sure that if he lost money before,...was smart enough to stop , figure it out, and make a change.......then even if he's still too low, given time he will again stop ,anolize and make changes until it fits him. Most people would wait until 3-4 years then after their equiptment is faked up, and they had no money...go sht. Good on him for taking the time to figure it out, even if it was after the fact. All he needs to do is think forward a little more


UMMMMMMM---obviously it went over your head like a lead balloon. It's'' nip it in the bud'', NOT ''nip it in the butt'',bud.Thumbs Up


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

plowfever;1240494 said:


> I was a multiple truck operation for the last ten years. Here in Indiana I had a very hard time finding quality help and just got to stressed out and felt like it wasn't worth all the headaches. I had 6 trucks, one hoe with 12' box, and two skidders running last year. I had three very large factories, two big nursing home and about 30 small commercial properties that we plowed last season. We billed per hour at $55-65 for trucks and skids and 120 for hoe. We averaged making close to 60,000-80,000 year gross. For south central Indiana we were king of the snow. But I got tired of all the headaches and decided this year I was going back to the way I started and just do as much as I could handle myself and one part time guy (my dad or uncle). Now being the middle of February I have realized this is so much nicer. I get to sleep more, make more profit and my customers I kept are tickled pink. I miss having all the equipment and making a ton of money but to me life is more than the mighty dollar and I'm more happy now than I have been in 5-6 years.


If you don't mind me asking, what are your profit margins on that revenue? Does that include truck payments/depreciation or is your equipment owned out right? I'm just trying to get a sense of what the larger guys are putting in their pocket when it's all said and done. Thanks.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

peterng;1240559 said:


> holy sufferin man who do those sweater puppies belong to? I think I need to find her calander for the shop.
> Thanks,
> Pete


Back to the important subject that's Giada de Laurentiis in Grandviews avatar


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## woodchuck2 (Dec 4, 2010)

I too am a one man show, i have 24 residential accounts and 4 commercial accounts. I only shovel when i want to and that is only for the elderly, hate to hear of someone falling and breaking a hip when 2 minutes of me shoveling can prevent that. I average $650-$1k per storm depending on accumulation amounts, the commercial accounts have a 3-4" trigger so they usually get done at least twice. No sanding/salt yet, no rain or melting to require it yet. I have two trucks but one is just a back up, average cost per storm for fuel is $75 so IMO i am making a decent wage. But to plow and not make money, might better sit home and do nothing, you would be further ahead.


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## plowfever (Nov 2, 2010)

Here is a comparison between my two experiences.

Multiple truck:
Gross- 60,000-80,000 per season
Rental of backhoe -$2300 mo. X 4= $9200
Salt (this varied) - around $13,000-14,000 per season
Labor- $7,500-10,000 season
Equipment cost $8500

Gross profit= at making $70,000 and using the highest of these numbers.$28,300 profit 


Now my one man show on what I have made so far this year.

Billed-$15,000
Fuel- $1100
Salt-$4,000
Equipment-$2500
Labor paying myself $25hr.-$1300

Profit minus taxes= $6,100

As you can see profit margins are higher now that I am a one man show. Both are before taxes out of the multiple trucks you will havemore taxes because of more payroll. I also forgot to take out my insurance which isn't much of a factor really as it only cost me $500 a year for liabilty and $1200 yr for workers comp.


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## monson770 (Dec 18, 2010)

thanx guys, it sounds pretty clear that i am not charging enough, part of the lack of money is due to having left out the 325 a month for the coffee shop, but its hard to work in monthly payments on a seasonal rate into how much its costing me at the time.

really appreciate all of the critisism, and the kind words. i know am not a pro but i am working my way slowly to become a more proffitable 1 man opperation.. i think that hearing what you have all had tosay makes me think im on the right track. last thing i want to do is not make money payup. just gotta make sure i take into account next year, all of the new expenses i hadn't been thinkin about. they sort of creeped up this year and now im lookin at new ball joints, tie rods, and u joints, along with 1 front axle... just some regular maintenance but the plowing just made it come about sooner than expected.

thanx again guys, i know i am an idiot, by definition!!! but help from the pro's like most of the people on this site, is only going to help me get my prices better and in turn make the prices in my area more like what they should be.


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## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

Isnt this thread COMMON SENSE? I dont even see what the question is? If you ONLY have less than $200 profit in a storm your nuts. You should quit plowing and find something else to do as this is not working out for you. Do you actually think even a few hundred is enough after say an 8"+ storm? I sure as hell dont and wouldnt even get out of bed for that. You need to establish a business plan. If you need to alter it then do so.

And your asking about is it better with multiple trucks? I could be wrong but Im pretty sure Id want to figure out the one truck profit thingy before I jumped into the multiple truck market. 

Why are these questions EVERYWHERE ON HERE? IF YOUR NOT MAKING MONEY GIVE IT UP!!! ITS NOT MEANT TO BE. Your better suited as an employee rather than an employer. Yes this market sucks. Theres no arguing that BUT you have to adapt. A good businessman will always find ways to be profitable in adapting his business model. Be creative. Think outside the box. Its not easy and thats why everyone doesnt do it.

I dont mean to be a dick but comon you have to admit this is a ridiculous question. I hope for your sake this is all a joke. Let someone else make a profit on your work if you dont want to.


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## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

monson770;1241422 said:


> thanx guys, it sounds pretty clear that i am not charging enough, part of the lack of money is due to having left out the 325 a month for the coffee shop, but its hard to work in monthly payments on a seasonal rate into how much its costing me at the time.
> 
> really appreciate all of the critisism, and the kind words. i know am not a pro but i am working my way slowly to become a more proffitable 1 man opperation.. i think that hearing what you have all had tosay makes me think im on the right track. last thing i want to do is not make money payup. just gotta make sure i take into account next year, all of the new expenses i hadn't been thinkin about. they sort of creeped up this year and now im lookin at new ball joints, tie rods, and u joints, along with 1 front axle... just some regular maintenance but the plowing just made it come about sooner than expected.
> 
> thanx again guys, i know i am an idiot, by definition!!! but help from the pro's like most of the people on this site, is only going to help me get my prices better and in turn make the prices in my area more like what they should be.


Nothing wrong with learning a lesson the hard way.
Actually your post is a very good one for others on this site to learn from. You seem like a hard working and conscience guy based on all the accounts you are servicing per storm.
Hope you are able to make more money on your current accounts.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

Even if your only making a couple hundred per storm, you're making money. I know when I balance every income and every expense, I'm not getting rich, but I'm making profit. I made more this year than last, and more last year than the year before, so you gotta have patience. Just stick with it, learn from your mistakes...there's alot of guys here that made alot of the same mistakes as you long before you. Keep things simple. You wanna expand to multiple trucks? Great, I do too. Wait until you're ready. Do it when you need to. I'm running myself ragged doing my route alone, but I'm still getting it done. When I can't possibly do it all, then I'll expand. I have a friend to help me now when I get jammed up, I suggest you do the same. You'll figure it all out


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## greyst1 (Sep 26, 2010)

plowfever;1241322 said:


> Here is a comparison between my two experiences.
> 
> Multiple truck:
> Gross- 60,000-80,000 per season
> ...


Plowfever,

Going off your numbers as solo, how do you spend 4k on salt and only bill out 15K? I billed out 8K so far and spent $350.00 on salt. Am i misunderstanding something here. I love this comparison, i think it's so vital to understand the differences in solo vs. 2 trucks or more but i think your calculations are way off. Here is how i see it:

Billed-$15,000
Fuel- $1250
Salt-$750
Equipment-$???? Explain this Maybe $250.00 if you know what your doing.
Insurance $575.00 (4 mo. worth)

Profit before taxes= $12175.00
Profit after taxes = 9-10K

If you have rentals, you get most of that tax money back. The way i see it is every $1.00 you bring in, after everything you get to keep about .55 to .60 on the dollar
Sorry, typo on the fuel. fixed it


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

plowfever;1241322 said:


> Here is a comparison between my two experiences.
> 
> Multiple truck:
> Gross- 60,000-80,000 per season
> ...


Thank you Plowfever! This really helps me. I'm one truck with a maxed out profit potential (for the most part) and I've been considering adding a truck or sub next year. This will be part of internal discussions. Thanks again.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Everybody's Income taxing situation is completely different from the other guy.Therefore,taxes shouldn't even be discussed here at all.There's way too many variables to even begin letting this in the equation.


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## thephoenix (Feb 15, 2011)

I've been in the business for 5 years now up until this year i was a one man show. Plowed 40-50 accounts with a skid steer. It was super stressful when I had equipment problems or an above average snowfall. Gaining a few accounts every year I hired a shoveler this year & just put a plow on my pickup (yet to be used). I pay him 25 bucks an hour and it's worth every penny. It's really nice to have another guy out in the middle of the night. I have a lot of commercial accounts that require snowblowing & shoveling steps....etc. I think the plow will really cut down on my long days too. Looking forward to the next snow.


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

OP- I would really re-evaluate you're costs and charging before you add a sub or help for next year- you'll loose a lot of money adding someone with your current financial structure.
You may want to reconsider the seasonal contract idea- by the inch or push is easier to calculate and easier to sell in some cases. I do per push. It saves my customers from paying a lot when it's a light year and saves me from loosing my shirt when it's a heavy one.


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## Dr Who (Dec 16, 2010)

peterng;1240559 said:


> holy sufferin man who do those sweater puppies belong to? I think I need to find her calander for the shop.
> Thanks,
> Pete


sweater puppies:laughing:

took me a minuite, LOL...


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

Dr Who;1242921 said:


> sweater puppies:laughing:
> 
> took me a minuite, LOL...


Everything moves a little slower down south


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## peterng (Apr 13, 2006)

sorry to divert attention from the thread but it's just the way those "puppies" hang. i've seen grandview around here long enough, it just hit me one night I had to ask cause I'd really like to know. that would be some solid material for the wall in the shop. every night. I wish he'd answer, it'd be the Ridgid calender and whoever she is.

the last thing I can think about right now is plowing, we're on cruise control set at overdrive.
Pete


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

I am a one man show.I have 3 small commercials each @ $100/push.Each take 1 hr including shoveling which I do also.I also have 72 residentials @ $30/push.I do not have any contracts,do not want any contracts.Have had these commercials for 9 yrs already.If they were a contract for season I would not have had them for so long.Same with residentials.Do not want contracts period.I do not expect to be paid if it does not snow but want to be paid if it does.I have a regular 40 hr/wk job .this just pays for toys and such.Also with all the snow this yr I have done many roof raking jobs at my customers and they will more than likely be on a schedule for future years now.So now I have extra income between storms but not as pressing.I am doing extremely well this year as a solo.


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

Nice work Milkie62. How long does your total route take. I'm at about 8-10 hours total time with 45 residentials and 1-1 hour commercial. I feel like any longer and the customers at the end of the route will start complaining but they really have not complained yet so maybe I can fit in more.


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## monson770 (Dec 18, 2010)

looks like i got a waaaayyys to go here...prsport


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

I cannot take on anymore work because of the time factor.I am at an easy 10 -12 hr route.I am 20 miles from my core area so in a storm I am looking at a 45 minute drive.It takes 30 minutes on a summer day.I have 55 accounts in a HOA that me and my son snowblow.We each do about 6-7/hr including cleaning at door ways and blowing the walks.I have 2 commercials 1 mile from my house,so I hit them at about 3-4" then drive the 20 miles to work at the core.I then have to get back to the 2 near my house.So drivetime back is 45 minutes,plow for 90 minutes then driveback to the HOA if need be.I am in a catch 22 though.If I decide to retire from this I will keep the 2 right near my house since it is $100/push which is easy money.But if I expand I will have to give up the 2 close ones.So far everything is going OK.I only salt 1 commercial when there is a lot of ice and do that by the bag.I pay about $5.50/bag and apply it for $25/bag.So if I need to do the entire area I usually charge $125.


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## CAT 245ME (Sep 10, 2006)

I my self am a one man show, I did at one time have two trucks running but got tired of having someone to run the other truck not show up. I can handle quite a bit on my own, I was doing 50 residential, three apartment buildings and one business with a half ton and 7'6 straight blade. It took a while to do on my own. I now have just 40 Resi's, and one apartment building to look after this season using a 3/4 ton & V plow. If I was to invest in a pull plow, I know I could handle 60 residential's in about the same time it's taken me to do the 40 I have know

IMO the key to being a successful one man show is in the equipment you are using, travel time and most important of all you need to be a very good operator.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Dr Who;1242921 said:


> sweater puppies:
> 
> took me a minuite, LOL...


I took them for a walk tonight!


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

I almost bought the pull plow 3 yrs ago.All set do it with the new truck.Good thing I procrastinated.The HOA that I do wanted it snowblowed for a cleaner look.No problem went out and bought 3 13hp cub cadet and ariens snowblowers to go along with an 8 hp ariens as a spare.Well with the new truck which was an extended cab long bed and 8.5 ft plow,I could not make the swings into the drives anymore.Would love to setup a std cab 3/4 ton and 6' bed for the pull plow setup.I just do not know what I am going to do .I am at the crossroads of having to either get out of it and just keep about 6 drives for pocket money since I need a plow for my 500' drive or try and expand the business and get a tractor and blower setup,get a contract for the next HOA and blow the socks off the competition(lo ball) because of the speed that a blower setup cannot be compared to.
300 drives @ $15/drive and 2-3 minutes a drive.I could be done before the storm is over and roughly $300-400 ain't bad money.My ins is $966/yr for landscape and plowing.And having a blower unit in a year like this could make some real money after the storms blowing back piles where there is no place to push it to.


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

My only problem is that I have a business plan but being a 1 man show is hard to implement it.Can't be at commercials and residentials at the same time.


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## SSS Inc. (Oct 18, 2010)

grandview;1246033 said:


> I took them for a walk tonight!


Isn't that Giada De Laurentiis.


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

Maybe the OP only made a little money and had to pay out 50 bucks because of a breakdown or something?.. Not really sure but he seems to know that he made a mistake which is very good, most people wont admit they did it wrong and wont change anything.

Another suggestion is that you should definately mix in some per push accounts to make up for the 3 day storm.. We had a two day storm up here a few weeks ago and I do about the same amount of accounts than you did and I made a LOT more than a couple hundred bucks.. Id suggest going up significantly on your prices. But that might actually be difficult for you because you said that you have gotten all referals, which seems to look like they were told that you were very cheap. One account alone makes more than that per push...


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

45 minute drive is a long time. My route is "broken" up by about 7 minutes between 70% of my accounts and the other 30% and it makes me mental wasting the drive time every push. I should also say that I have a few more that are 3-4 minute rides between. The bottom line is the 30% takes me about 40-45% of my time which is a problem the way I see it. My goal is to sub or get another truck for the 30% plus my small commercial and add a ton more drives in my main area that I'm literally driving by. That''s the goal anyway.


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## KSikkema (Oct 7, 2008)

Monsoon; don't get discouraged by any negative comments here. They are just meant as constructive criticism. You at least are asking the right questions early on in a business venture. Many wait until far too late. The fact that you recongnize a problem is a huge step forward and shows good entreprenial thinking. Take this info forward, don't worry about yesterdays money and focus on tomorrows. Profit is not a dirty word, don't be afraid to charge (and justify) to the customer why you have to charge what you do. doctors, mcdonalds don't feel bad charging what they do and they often supply a far less quality product/service than you do. Don't feel bad to charge accordingly!


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## peterng (Apr 13, 2006)

awesome post sikkema. wish everyone was that constructive with their comments !
Pete


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## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

I'm a 1 man band right now (as far as plowing at least), I occasionally take one of my brothers with me to shovel if they "feel like it"  ... I plow 16 large residential driveways each storm with my truck, my brother does 5 in my neighborhood with my 4wheeler... it works out pretty well. That being said- I'm a fulltime college student, and I go to school about 3 hours away (in good weather) from my work- so I can't take on more work than one of my buddies can handle covering for me (I don't want to over-burden him), when I can't come home. Once I graduate (next year), I plan to have both my trucks on the road, doing 45-60 driveways.... I'll hire another guy to drive my other truck.

Now, regarding your profitability- how are you possibly losing money plowing? Not to sound like a d**k, but unless you're 100% seasonal contracts (no per push), and got slammed this year, how are you losing money? I mean, even for a 2" storm (my minimum trigger), I'm making a solid $650-700+, and it goes up exponentially based on snowfall from there... even paying for the fuel to come down and back from school ($100 or so round trip), and fuel to plow ($30 or so), I'm still making a good $500 or so profit for 4 hours of effort (small 2" storm), and that factors in insurance (based on plowing about a dozen times as we have this year) as well. 

The only way I could see "considering losing money" on a storm if you're all per push would be if you had a major break down (lose the tranny, t-case, etc)... although that really should be deemed a business expense for the season, not so much loss of profit for a single storm Thumbs Up

Alright enough of my rambling... back to doing landscape design quantifications for class :laughing:


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