# Private Road Bid



## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

Site is two miles exactly, 25 feet wide, no curbs, two cul de sacs, 8 hammerheads and two entrances. Ones divided..

Using a 8 foot blade with wings, I should be able to clear three inches here in two hours, right?

And I figure about 300 lbs of salt per lane mile at about 25 degrees. (Im hoping to get away with less) More if its in the teens or lower obviously.

What do you guys think. Am I in the ballpark?


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## JeepPlow18 (Sep 4, 2006)

You should outline it. Is it all the streets with houses?


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

lol. I thought it was pretty self explanitory.

Yeah. All the streets with houses. On the left is a train tracks and the main road out front(on top) is not included. Or that little farmhouse between the entrances, I dunno what that is.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

Roads are FAST.
you don't ever have to back up, you don't have to push the snow anywhere, you just angle back as you go by a driveway.

I bet you could do this in a little over an hour and a half. (3")
4 passes (2 one way, 2 the other).


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

Yeah and this place is smooth as glass too.

The association is grumbling about financial woes but this is a sub of 900,000 homes and all brand new.  

So anyways.....I need to make the price right but I do think it will be a nice fairly simple site to do (Might even have fun....the other commercial I do is a Mini Storage..Not always fun) plus It will hopefully snag a few resis too.

I already have one in there but actually am going to do my guy for free for the lead if this thing pans out.

Fair is fair.


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

we plow 30mi roads for $100 lane mile plus salt we also assist the county and hopefully this year a small town


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

Snowpower;413071 said:


> lol. I thought it was pretty self explanitory.
> 
> Yeah. All the streets with houses. On the left is a train tracks and the main road out front(on top) is not included. Or that little farmhouse between the entrances, I dunno what that is.


Some might consider a private road bid with no curbs or obstacles pretty "self explanatory". But oh well.....

That might take 2 hours your first storm, but you'll cut that down quick. The real money is in all the Driveways!!!! Tell the association you want to bid on everything - everyone's DW's including the pvt rd.

Explain that everyone will save money and otherwise they would all be hiring independent contractors which would F up all your work and thus cost the assoc. more for you to fix in the end. If you plow that place as perfect as you can - you'd definitely be going back to clean up when the screwballs get done with some of those driveways.

Edit: Even if only half the people wanted you to plow their DW's you make over twice as much. Get in there and take advantage of all these people that obviously don't have anyone to plow for them!!! Quicker you act, more you'll get.


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

Good thoughts CJ.

I am hoping to secure a few more resis in this sub. 

Im hovering around the 200 dollar range for up to 6 inches, and 325 for 6 to 12. 

I pay.06 per lb for salt, and am hovering around 150 per application.

Unfortunantely I can get beat on the salt price because bulk guys with their own piles are only paying .02 per lb.

But 200 a push and 150 per salt has to be a nice price for 2 miles of high end roadways.

I know my questions were more about time and product applied but thats my numbers so far. In pencil.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

Well if you can't beat your competitors price focus on your better service. I read somewhere on here: 'We sell our service, not our price". You should be focusing on selling your service anyways.

The quicker you tell that assoc. about your interest in DW's the more you'll get.

I could tell you what i'd charge if it were in MA, but that wont do you any good. sorry.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

I have a private road in a high end subdivision as one of my contracts. We sent out letters to everyone on the road to do their driveways. We didn't get everyone, but we got a couple and that's totally gravy. Talk about a "tight route". Most county/cities are on the web now where you can look up addresses and owners to send targeted marketing.

and, as you say, the guy that got me in, gets his for free.

2nd thought.
More snow isn't really going to be tougher here. Normally of course, in a regular lot, doubling the amount of snow takes a LOT longer because you have to keep pushing it into piles and stacking it and you can't take big bites. But here you furrow everything, you never push into a pile (ok, at the end, but that's tiny), the bite size doesn't matter much. Re-think your 6-12 bid. It's not really going to take much longer. 

3rd thought, I bet the HOA really is struggling, it's new, has few cash reserves, and all the houses aren't built (but all the streets are). Sometimes getting in the first time means you have that contract for years, because it's work to change. Might be worth talking with the HOA president person adn saying "hey, since there aren't many driveways I can do it cheaper this year, you know help you guys out, but as more houses get built, I'll have to up the price. (slower to go around driveways) but I really want to be here for years. (you do for me, I do for you)
Just a thought.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

That was some good advice Lonecowboy. This is a good thread alot of good info. Keep it coming.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Well, I can speak for plowing associations from several perspectives. I lived in a "high-end" one with 90% occupancy, I looked into buying in one where I was the first buyer/occupant and now I've bid three developments with driveways over one mile (withdrew the bid on one and got the one which I plowed for four years and the third I'm on the second year). My advice is:

Set your price for plowing the road. Same price whether it's one occupant or a hundred. People buying into developments know they are going to be responsible for road maintentance. If you buy say the first lot on the road, you will have it plowed to your house and there will be no need to plow beyond that point until someone else builds. So, find out how much of the road needs plowed and give a price for that. It's up to the Association President to collect the Road Maint account and pay you out of that. As more of the road is added for plowing, your rate will increase accordingly. If the whole thing needs plowed and there is only one occupant, then he'll pay it. Usually, though, there will be others you may not be aware of, as lots are being sold and houses are being plannned/built. 

Don't put too much stock in that "HOA is really struggling" crap. Everyone there knows the costs associated with the association and the dues are set before the year even begins. If more is needed, a meeting is set and residents/owners are made aware of that. A modification is made to the HOA fee structure and it gets collected in a certain amount of time. Even for getting a plowing contract, a meeting is called. All owners/residents are invited and proposals are reviewed and one is chosen. At that time, it will be established that there is or is not enough in the maint account. The HOA itself is not "struggling"; the owners pony up the funds, if needed.

The last one I did and the one I have now is all paid by one person. He then goes around to others to see if they want to help him out. Those are kind of unusual circumstances. But the point it, to me it doesn't matter. I set a price for what he wants plowed. If he collects from others - good for him, but doesn't make any difference to me. Oh, the fact that there may not be as many driveways has no bearing on how long it takes to plow the roads. If you can do it for less than you wanted this year, why aren't you going to be able to next year? What's to keep them from getting someone else next year when you want to get what you should have gotten this year?


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

Thanks CJ, LC and Mick et all.

I like the idea of one price so I will make that so, and you're right. It wont get much tougher, plus....Obviously I am not going to let more than just 3-4 inches ever accumulate in a fast moving storm.

It is an investment type site in the sense that there is a lot of other work there I want in summer, and you never know who lives in there that will see me and know me and like what I am doing. What company they own, or they work for. 

So many times lately one thing has turned into another or something that never panned out, my name got to the right person and something else came of it. It's actually pretty good advertising so in my mind.....I can let that sortof make up for the difference between what Id love to charge and what I will charge.

They asked to have the contract emailed but I have nice presentation folders and letterheads and such and will be dropping off a package Monday to the person involved.

I want this gig.

Any further information on salt usage? Im hearing my 600 lbs per road mile or 300 lbs poer lane mile is low. My research tells me its close.

Im not new at this but this will be my first season solo and applying salt.


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## gqnine44 (Feb 1, 2005)

We are doing one this winter (2.3 miles) for the first time. We are charging $350 per push. Obvisouly some storms will require more than one push. We are charging by the pound for salt. I would love to hear the averages for salt usage per road mile.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

gqnine44;413854 said:


> We are doing one this winter (2.3 miles) for the first time. We are charging $350 per push. Obvisouly some storms will require more than one push. We are charging by the pound for salt. I would love to hear the averages for salt usage per road mile.


You are charging by the pound? How do you do that? I thought it was by the ton?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Quality SR;413856 said:


> You are charging by the pound? How do you do that? I thought it was by the ton?


What's the diff isn't there 2000 lbs in a ton. Maybe he's using bags.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

JD Dave;413858 said:


> What's the diff isn't there 2000 lbs in a ton. Maybe he's using bags.


That is a hell of a lot of bag for 2 1/2 miles dont you think? Plus the price to buy the bags are more then buying a ton of bulk.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Quality SR;413863 said:


> That is a hell of a lot of bag for 2 1/2 miles dont you think? Plus the price to buy the bags are more then buying a ton of bulk.


I agree but ther's still 2000 lbs in a ton and $150/ton works out to $.075 / lb


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

JD Dave;413865 said:


> I agree but ther's still 2000 lbs in a ton and $150/ton works out to $.075 / lb


I agree with you on that. But something that big, plus depending on the storm and the temp. Bulk i would think would be the way to go. Not bags. All those bags you have to open and dump in to the hopper.Plus you pay more for bagged. I paid almost $20 for a 50#bag last year. Thats $800 for 40 bags ( or 2000#) If you put down 1 ton, 1 1/2 tons, or 2 tons. You would charge by the ton or half of a ton right? Am i missing something here?


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## gqnine44 (Feb 1, 2005)

They dont want the whole road salted (just the hills and curves). We will be doing mostly plowing even at .75 inches. This is our first year with a road so it may make more sense to switch to tons. When we do charge this way we charge .17 to .19 per pound. Maybe this is too high (if there is such a thing).


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Quality SR;413871 said:


> I agree with you on that. But something that big, plus depending on the storm and the temp. Bulk i would think would be the way to go. Not bags. All those bags you have to open and dump in to the hopper.Plus you pay more for bagged. I paid almost $20 for a 50#bag last year. Thats $800 for 40 bags ( or 2000#) If you put down 1 ton, 1 1/2 tons, or 2 tons. You would charge by the ton or half of a ton right? Am i missing something here?


No, I probably am. LOL


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

JD Dave;413877 said:


> No, I probably am. LOL


LMAO... I just read what he wrote. I got it now. What i was trying to say before was. If you buy a ton of bulk for $150. And you only use 1/2 of it basically it is only costing you $75. Now with the bags it is going to cost $400. ( i am just going by how much i paid last year for 50# of bag salt).. I am going to bed now, my head hurts. LOL


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

gqnine44;413874 said:


> They dont want the whole road salted (just the hills and curves). We will be doing mostly plowing even at .75 inches. This is our first year with a road so it may make more sense to switch to tons. When we do charge this way we charge .17 to .19 per pound. Maybe this is too high (if there is such a thing).


Thats a decent way to do it. Thats three times cost.

And if anyones paying 20 dollars for a fifty pound bag of salt Id love to supply you this year.

I pay 4.95 for an 80lb bag of #1. Or a little better than .06 per lb.

I sent out the bid on this as follows.

Per Push 225 Understanding that thats Per Push, and I will not let more than 5 inches ever accumululate.
Salt 225 per app.

Seasonal all inclusive salt and plowing...7000


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

This is interesting stuff. We have almost no private roads where I live. As soon as a development is done they deed the road over to the town so the town has to maintain it in perpetuity. Doesn't seem like a very good deal for the town, but they always take the road. Developer doesn't care, the road is still there and now he;ll never have to pay to plow it or repave it again.

I'd love to get a road to plow, seems like it would be good work to have. But with so few around they are secured by someone else a long time ago. Generally most developers have trucks and equipment anyway. I could always sub for the town and plow roads, but I can't work their hours, and they don't pay squat. I've heard of guys in Mass making good money subbing municipal, but around here it isn't much. I have done some before for the town I work for, but the town I live in requires a 2 million dollar policy and pays $35 an hour. No wonder they have different people every year and no one knows what the heck they are doing. Funny to talk to guys who get hired and are all excited so they go out and buy a brand new truck and plow without doing the math. By the time they pay for the fuel, insurance, wear and tear on the truck and coffee they can't make a payment on the new truck.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

Quality SR;413871 said:


> I agree with you on that. But something that big, plus depending on the storm and the temp. Bulk i would think would be the way to go. Not bags. All those bags you have to open and dump in to the hopper.Plus you pay more for bagged. I paid almost $20 for a 50#bag last year. Thats $800 for 40 bags ( or 2000#) If you put down 1 ton, 1 1/2 tons, or 2 tons. You would charge by the ton or half of a ton right? Am i missing something here?


Dumping in 50# bags is WAY easier than shoveling in bulk salt.

Unless you're suggesting he purchase a front loader (not to mention he'd have to build a storage facility). There's nothing cheaper about $10,000 in overhead.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

Snowpower;413958 said:


> Thats a decent way to do it. Thats three times cost.
> 
> And if anyones paying 20 dollars for a fifty pound bag of salt Id love to supply you this year.
> 
> ...


I only had to put salt down a few times on some drives. At Home depot the bags were almost $20.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

cjasonbr;414212 said:


> Dumping in 50# bags is WAY easier than shoveling in bulk salt.
> 
> Unless you're suggesting he purchase a front loader (not to mention he'd have to build a storage facility). There's nothing cheaper about $10,000 in overhead.


You don't need to shovel bulk in to the hopper, or skid steer. You don't go to a place that sells it, and will load it for you????????? That is how it is done by me. I don't live on or near farm land where people have loads of property to keep there salt. Everyone around here drives to a place that supplies salt or mix, pays for it and gets it loaded in to there hopper, or pickup. These places are open 24 hrs during a storm. I know you guys that buy loads of it save money, but that is how it is done. Who ever buys bagged salt and opens every single bag and pours it in to a 1- 2 yard hopper is crazy. ( a tailgate spreader is different) You might as well sub it out if you are going to do that. Or go out and buy a Buzz box.
A buddy of mine put down 25-30 yards of mix on the St. pats day storm. He went back and forth with the trucks. On his biggest lot he had the mix delievered before the storm, But he had a skid steer on the site.


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