# Snow Slicer... Who Uses It?



## diesellandscape (Jul 17, 2009)

Anyone on here have any 1st hand experences with central salts snow slicer?

Within 5 miles of my shop theres prob. 100-150 landscapers-snow removal companies. It seems like every year theres more and more. I'm looking to find something that can really be a selling point for us (my company), that no one in my area really offers. Im looking into a product that i can charge a little more per app, explain why, and provide less applications which would help on seasonals, and per service accounts. I also am looking for less damage on our equiptment. 

Heres where im at as far as cost and usage... I currently pay about 78/ton to my shop for bulk rock salt. I usually go thru about 4 tons of salt per application to all of my accounts. So far this year im at 50-60 tons. Im also buying calc. for the sidewalks wich is adding up very fast. (with drifts & long storms im applying close to 1000lbs an acre)

Ive looked into magic salt, but the cost per ton is right around 110-115 and ive heard some batches are good and some rock up as soon as it gets cold.

After talking to the rep from central in my area im thinking about giving it a try, but i havent heard anything from the people who use it 1st hand. Any opinions would be nice, but im looking for the people that use it! also my cost on that is 98.50/ton. My rep claims that 600-700lbs an acre will be safe for me...

Thanks and excuse my spelling


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## NW Snow Removal (Oct 12, 2007)

a 22 ton load of treated bulk is about 4 yards less than a 22 ton of untreated salt. It does work well though. much better than magic IMO.


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## mustangmike45 (Nov 17, 2005)

i got a load of it this year. it seems to work good but i had problems with it freezing in the poly hoppers at temps below about 10 degrees. also it has a lot of fine powder in it and after 12 tons or so it will start to gum up the spreaders and you have to rinse them out. it makes a good sidewalk salt and we will switch back to clearlane for the lots as it didn't freeze or gum up the spreaders.


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## plowzilla (Nov 19, 2004)

I used snow slicer last year and again this year. I will not use any other. Its freeze point is well below regular rock salt and my customers do not complain about their lot being slippery in cold temps.Also, I spread much less which makes for better profits. I just finished the remains of last year (very little caking that broke apart easily) and a semi load is coming on monday. I pay $81 a ton and its well worth the extra money. Lastly, I can leave it in my v-box for days and it still comes out fine when I need it. Some problems associated with freeze up is water/rain/snow get into their salt or their salt spreaders are the problem. Both my salt doggs work great.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

We've delivered a lot of Slicer in the last few years, and I find more and more of our customers (especially the smaller ones, interestingly) are moving toward only running Slicer after playing around with it and learning how to store it and use it _correctly_. The key (as with any treated product) is to learn how to work with your spreaders turned down considerably, and training your operators on it. It's hard to get used to, you have to fight the urge to just "crank it up", and let the product do its job. Not to mention that you have to store the product well, and it will keep for a very long time. I've had guys tell me it works better than Magic, and I've had guys say otherwise...BUT, you can't argue with the cost-effectiveness of it versus Magic. Slicer = 25% (+/-) higher than rock; Magic = 225% over rock, last I heard. As far as comparisons to other products, like Clearlane/Thawrox/Thundermelt, my guys have said simply "there is no comparison". In fairness, we don't apply/use the products much these days, so I gotta rely on the feedback from the guys that do.

As far as the freezing/fines concern, that might be specific to the yard that made it. Here, they make it in their Lemont terminal, and they don't make a ginormous pile of it. They make it as needed, and they might have 500T _max _made up at any given time. I've watched them make it, so I can tell you how it's done (with their blessing). They start with fresh product right off the boat--product destined to become Slicer goes inside immediately as it's unloaded--that _is_ a big pile. As it's needed, they take that dry product and run it through a screen (much like a dirt pulverizer) to remove the excessive fines and large pieces. From there, it goes right into the plant hopper, which feeds the mixing area where the liquid treatment and dye (purple, it's their "thing") are introduced. The finished product runs up a small stacker conveyor and piles inside the building. Really, a neat process to watch.

All in all, it's the most popular treated bulk product we've offered, so I guess that says something. Also, it's worth noting that they offer a bagged product called "Beneath Zero", which is little more than bagged Slicer (I believe it's screened twice, but not 100% sure). It's a nice alternative to using calcium on walks, and much lower cost. But the whole calcium thing is whole 'nother _highly antiquated_ subject altogether.

HTH...


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

NW Snow Removal;1160133 said:


> a 22 ton load of treated bulk is about 4 yards less than a 22 ton of untreated salt. It does work well though. much better than magic IMO.


You mean because of the added weight from the liquids? I haven't noticed a difference in volume vs weight when we have dropped a load into a "converted" bin (was rock, now Slicer). Although, I will ask the guys that run it if they find they get fewer loads out of it.

Interesting point.


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## Rain Man (Feb 20, 2010)

Dan is the rep in the Pittsburgh area, he is a great guy to deal with. I have been using Snow Slicer for 4 years, and it works great. I use about 160 ton a year. It melts down to a lower temperature and you don't have to use nearly as much as regular salt. It don't clump and there is never any clumps. I never had a chunk bigger than a 1/2 an inch delivered to me. price is good and Dan will get it to you quick.The best thing it's purple! purplebou


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

So here's my question, I bet the weight of the liquid would leave your load a few yards difference, but since we pay for it per ton, ...and according to westhardt Corp, it's about 25% more expensive, If I loaded two trucks equal weight....obviously different volumes, Would I be able to spread 25% more parking lot with it...... Or after considering the " volume " difference, do you feel and maybe re consider that you are spreading the same amount of weight, but less volume and so it's fouling you? I totally see the ability of working at lower temps a big deal. And I have seen this stuff myself and it really does melt good, but can you actually say you spread more lots or sq per semi load? Or are we now getting fooled with the volume being less....


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Do they sell the purple liquid separate that could be applied with a trucks on board pre wet system? I saw big difference on cold dry snows, but warm wet snow, I saw little difference and id bet plain Jain rock salt would come away cheaper on those days


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## NW Snow Removal (Oct 12, 2007)

Westhardt Corp.;1161071 said:


> You mean because of the added weight from the liquids? I haven't noticed a difference in volume vs weight when we have dropped a load into a "converted" bin (was rock, now Slicer). Although, I will ask the guys that run it if they find they get fewer loads out of it.
> 
> Interesting point.


The loads of snow slicer we get look like 18 ton of rock salt. It is what it is. the salt is denser, wet and heavier. the volume of salt is much larger when it is straight rock salt. It is still a great product, just don't be surprised if it looks short, it isn't.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

elite1msmith;1175020 said:


> So here's my question, I bet the weight of the liquid would leave your load a few yards difference, but since we pay for it per ton, ...and according to westhardt Corp, it's about 25% more expensive, If I loaded two trucks equal weight....obviously different volumes, Would I be able to spread 25% more parking lot with it...... Or after considering the " volume " difference, do you feel and maybe re consider that you are spreading the same amount of weight, but less volume and so it's fouling you? I totally see the ability of working at lower temps a big deal. And I have seen this stuff myself and it really does melt good, but can you actually say you spread more lots or sq per semi load? Or are we now getting fooled with the volume being less....


Once you factor in your lower application rate, you should be getting more applications out of it--even if the volume is slightly less due to the weight difference.



elite1msmith;1175021 said:


> Do they sell the purple liquid separate that could be applied with a trucks on board pre wet system? I saw big difference on cold dry snows, but warm wet snow, I saw little difference and id bet plain Jain rock salt would come away cheaper on those days


The liquid is Meltdown Apex, made by Envirotech (Central), and as far I as know it can be purchased outright. 
Info: http://www.envirotechservices.com/meltdown-apex/

The purple is their trademark dye, and I believe is a separate (3rd) ingredient. IDK about getting that.

I have to ask, in your theory of rock working as well in the warm--are you dialing down your spreaders? A lot? I hope?


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

NW Snow Removal;1175233 said:


> The loads of snow slicer we get look like 18 ton of rock salt. It is what it is. the salt is denser, wet and heavier. the volume of salt is much larger when it is straight rock salt. It is still a great product, just don't be surprised if it looks short, it isn't.


Most of our clients that take Slicer only have room for one load, and in a small bin. It seems to fill in as well as it did with plain bulk, as haven't had any mention of it yet. Based on some of the things I've heard, you might consider scaling an incoming truck sometime--just to make sure. Still a lotta shenanigans going on out there, sadly.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Westhardt Corp.;1175371 said:


> Once you factor in your lower application rate, you should be getting more applications out of it--even if the volume is slightly less due to the weight difference.
> 
> The liquid is Meltdown Apex, made by Envirotech (Central), and as far I as know it can be purchased outright.
> Info: http://www.envirotechservices.com/meltdown-apex/
> ...


I can't speak for all my salt spreaders, but I just drive faster. And based on usage reports we do spread less on warmer days,


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

LOL, that's one way to thin out the lb/ft ratio.

Do you have, like...._sirens_ along with warning lights? Might be worth looking into...


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Only if you rally think the slicer is that good. Next i would have to put a turbo charger on the spinner so I get better distance


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

LOL...touché, sir.


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## Mdwstsnow512 (Dec 30, 2007)

only thing i use, 
worth the extra money, no questions


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

We've been getting more and more "converts" after trying it out and learning the product (and the application rate).


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Can this stuff be had in Eastern PA?


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## SullivanSeptic (Nov 30, 2008)

Westhardt Corp.;1180181 said:


> We've been getting more and more "converts" after trying it out and learning the product (and the application rate).


So what kind of deliver price is slicer going for these days? Figure a semi load?


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

lilweeds;1180316 said:


> Can this stuff be had in Eastern PA?


IDK how far east they go, but there is a depot in Monaca--wrong side of the state.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

SullivanSeptic;1180363 said:


> So what kind of deliver price is slicer going for these days? Figure a semi load?


One _meeeeeeellleeeooonnn_ dollars.


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## bpersichetti (Jan 12, 2010)

*SnowSlicer from Central Salt*

SnowSlicer is a product available from Central Salt. It is made at our stockpile depots located in Chicago, Lyon, KS, Pittsburgh and now in Cincinnati. Here is a link to our web site: http://www.centralsalt.com/snowslicer.htm. or download attachment.

We also sell the pre-mixed liquid for stockpile treatment.

Give me a call or email if you would like more information.

Bob Persichetti
Central Salt - General Sales Manager
[email protected]
888-499-7258


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

I was talking with a guy from another plowing company the other day and we werre talking about using treated salt in general not snowslicer itself but things like it or treating it with geomelt or magic or whatever. 

The biggest problem we see is actually trying to sell the non seasonal customer on the price. You can explain to them that yes we will only use 650lbs per acre as oppose to the 850lbs/ acre we normally use. My guess is you would probably need to spread that at around .22-.25/lb applied as oppose to the .18-.20/lb of straight rock. 

Not bashing the product at all, its something i would love to add to my service as oppose to just rock, but trying to sell nonseasonal clients on it will be hard. When looking at those quoute they will have blinders on as far as salt descriptions go and only see that I would charge .22/lb and the competition is charing .18/lb for salt.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

Most of my guys have told me that the (snow removal) client has little to do with the decision to run the treated product. Once they figured out the applications rates, they learned that even with higher price tag they had better performance, at an overall better price (because the lower application rate offsets the higher price. The client just cares that they have black & wet. It's kind of a win/win, really.

ps--hi Bob!


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

the reason i say that is because around here I dont see anyone running liquid or treated salt for that matter. It would be a really neat market to break into, but thats why I bring up the cost mostly factor mostly. 

A lot of people use just a per pound applied rate by me. If I could get a per application rate for a customer then it would work really well because your not showing your per pound applied charge.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

bristolturf;1180833 said:


> I was talking with a guy from another plowing company the other day and we werre talking about using treated salt in general not snowslicer itself but things like it or treating it with geomelt or magic or whatever.
> 
> The biggest problem we see is actually trying to sell the non seasonal customer on the price. You can explain to them that yes we will only use 650lbs per acre as oppose to the 850lbs/ acre we normally use. My guess is you would probably need to spread that at around .22-.25/lb applied as oppose to the .18-.20/lb of straight rock.
> 
> Not bashing the product at all, its something i would love to add to my service as oppose to just rock, but trying to sell nonseasonal clients on it will be hard. When looking at those quoute they will have blinders on as far as salt descriptions go and only see that I would charge .22/lb and the competition is charing .18/lb for salt.


Try charging by the application instead of the pound.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

Why not just take your lb rate, figure out your usage per app, and flat rate it? Then you can use whatever you want, as long as it works. Not likely that they will complain if you use something other than plain bulk rock salt.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

thats what i was kinda referencing too in the previous post. I usually do include a per lb applied rate so then if we do spot applications or partial applications things like that. It is defenetially a product i am looking more into for next year.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

Ideally, you shouldn't have to _do_ spot applications...once and done is the idea, no?

If you can reduce/eliminate refreeze...then what?


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

by partial apps im refering to when patroling isles and enterances during a heavy snow storm. We will usually throw down some salt after the first initiall clearing. Then we usually always will salt by the main entry and the front door. Then as we continue to patrol we salt again as needed. The rest of the lot then gets salted after we plow the entire thing. 

We usually too will send out a salt truck once later that day or early the next morning and just check the lots again, clean up anything that needs to get cleaned up and spot salt any slick spots or ice puddles things like that.

And yes ideally we dont want to do that, but we do. We will drive around and check the sites, make a list of any that could use a spot treatment and hit them then. If none of them need it, then we dont have to worry about it. This usually only occurs in colder temps (15* and lower when the salt starts having a hard time working)


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## NorthOfEden (Dec 29, 2009)

Is there anyone who has done a comparison of treated salts? How would slicer stack up to thundermelt or magic salt?
I've switched from straight bulk rock salt to a product called thunder melt this year, even though it costs 9% more per ton.
It definitely performed well when the temps dropped hard after the snow. I've been gradually getting the drivers to dial down the amount used, I'm not sure a 30% reduction is possible but i hope to make up the 9%. Doesn't bridge in the spreader, clumps break apart easily works at colder temps. So I'm sold on treated salt, but is purple better than brown?


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

Well, of course. It's..._*purple*_.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

...but I haven't had to opportunity to do any comparison. I hope to this year, but the time to gather samples (I prefer fresh from the piles, not pre-furnished by the mine) and do some testing. We're slowing down a bit, so I may try to make it happen. I'll be sure to report. IDK whether the local Magic distributor will be in the sample mood, though...we shall see.


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## NorthOfEden (Dec 29, 2009)

Westhardt....
I'd be willing to try a semi load of slicer if the cost per ton isn't too far out there.
Who should I contact ? Central salt? 
We are located in the west suburbs of Chicago. 
Thanks


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

I would PM you, but you haven't enough posts yet. Shoot me an email and I can give you the details.

[email protected]


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## bpersichetti (Jan 12, 2010)

North of Eden - Send me an email to [email protected] or call 888-499-7258 and we will send you a quote.

Bob Persichetti
Central Salt


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## diesellandscape (Jul 17, 2009)

I got my first load 2 weeks ago....

I will never Run Normal salt again!

Heres what Ive noticed...
1) when the beds empty no rust! usually the last bit of rock starts to get the rust stain, i just went to the car was and it cleans off of everything with ease (17* outside)
2) Less applied = less load. Depeneding on the outside temp im using 1/3 - 1/2 of what i would normally use, Espically if i drop it as soon as i have the lot clean. On my larger lots it melts the front by the time the back is clear.
3)We had a few all day storms, and just playing around i applied it a little heavy and it melted 1 inch and kept melting (good for the road back to my shop, one app every storm).
4) I keep it covered and can leave in the bed for 3 days at least with no clumps.

The only thing to watch out for is it spreads like water... the first few times you run your auger, keep an eye on it! its easy to drop 2000lbs twice as fast as you would normally.


pm me if you have any other ?'s


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## Rain Man (Feb 20, 2010)

And its purple purplebou


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)




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## bpersichetti (Jan 12, 2010)

*Barney*

Trent

That"s great....

Bob


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

Glad you like! That's what a lot of my guys call it, and it just sorta stuck.


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## diesellandscape (Jul 17, 2009)

I bought a 1/2 ton of rock salt the other day and wow.... I will never use rock again! Its 9% cheaper than snow slicer and to me it doesnt even work (not to mention the chunks). I dont know how i was doing my rounds the 1st half of this season. Anyone who was thinking about making the change... Try a tri-axle, swallow the extra $200 and you'll never go back.


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## SullivanSeptic (Nov 30, 2008)

I agree. Used mine after our blizzard with 5 degree temps in the middle of the night and it ate right thru some serious hard pack in about 5 minutes. Love the stuff. And we use way less per application


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Can the liquid for snow slicer be purchased? Is so how much to treat a ton and how much does it cost?


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## SullivanSeptic (Nov 30, 2008)

not that I know of call central salt


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## jbutch83 (Sep 30, 2002)

lilweeds;1230292 said:


> Can the liquid for snow slicer be purchased? Is so how much to treat a ton and how much does it cost?


It can be purchased, and from what I was qouted, it's MORE expensive than liquid magic. About 30% more. Nothing against the stuff, as I haven't used it, but magic has been working great for me, and the cost is way less.


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