# Sidewalks, steps and drivewaya



## Plowboy15

What's up Guys, I'm new here but old to the snow removal business but new to 20,000 sqft of sidewalks, steps and driveways. Ive always stayed away from a gig like this because depending on help. But I don't want to pass this up. I'm not sure how to bid this. Can anyone help. I'm thing 1 ventrac with power broom with spreader and 4 guys with shovels? Any thoughts?

Thank you


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## Dirtebiker

You're not giving nearly enough info for anyone to begin to help you.


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## leolkfrm

a pic of the property helps


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## Plowboy15

I don't have a pic of the property. What other info can I give you guys?


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## Luther

You’ll be more than fine servicing 20,000sq ft of walks with a Ventrac w/salter and 4 guys on the ground.


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## Plowboy15

Luther said:


> You'll be more than fine servicing 20,000sq ft of walks with a Ventrac w/salter and 4 guys on the ground.


What do you think about 15 cents a sqft?


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## Luther

Not pricing it for you.


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## Plowboy15

Luther said:


> Not pricing it for you.


Why not!!! I didn't ask you to. Would per sqft be a good way to go about it or would it be difficult because there are steps and driveways involved


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## Unraveller

Plowboy15 said:


> Why not!!! I didn't ask you to. Would per sqft be a good way to go about it or would it be difficult because there are steps and driveways involved


Post the address. Then people can look at the satelitte and offer an opinion.

Until then no one has enough information. and 0.15 is a joke, no one is paying you $3,000 for half an acre.


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## Plowboy15

Unraveller said:


> Post the address. Then people can look at the satelitte and offer an opinion.
> 
> Until then no one has enough information. and 0.15 is a joke, no one is paying you $3,000 for half an acre.


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## Plowboy15

Unraveller said:


> Post the address. Then people can look at the satelitte and offer an opinion.
> 
> Until then no one has enough information. and 0.15 is a joke, no one is paying you $3,000 for half an acre.


The 0.15 may be a joke... that's why I'm here asking for advice.


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## Unraveller

Plowboy15 said:


> The 0.15 may be a joke... that's why I'm here asking for advice.


You just got advice.

It was "Post The Address.


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## Luther

Plowboy15 said:


> Why not!!! I didn't ask you to. Would per sqft be a good way to go about it or would it be difficult because there are steps and driveways involved


It's not difficult. Don't demand a price.


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## Plowboy15

Luther said:


> It's not difficult. Don't demand a price.


I'm pretty sure I wasn't demanding a price bud


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## Plowboy15

Plowboy15 said:


> I'm pretty sure I wasn't demanding a price bud


I've read through a bunch of different post for different questions on here. There are the new guys who do need help and advice. Then There's you you jokers who've been on these sites for a long time that pussy foot around the question and are really not here to help but to try and steal work Because you cant get your own leads.


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## Plowboy15

Luther said:


> It's not difficult. Don't demand a price.


^^^^^^^^


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## Randall Ave

In the entire time I have been on this site, I have never once heard of someone stealing work from someone else asking for advice. Only way I can help you. How long will it take you and your guys, what are you paying them in hour. The rate to charge for them should be at least three times there rate. Without seeing it, kinda hard to help.


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## Plowboy15

Randall Ave said:


> In the entire time I have been on this site, I have never once heard of someone stealing work from someone else asking for advice. Only way I can help you. How long will it take you and your guys, what are you paying them in hour. The rate to charge for them should be at least three times there rate. Without seeing it, kinda hard to help.


Well when you think you saw it all you didn't. You can't tell me that when you read a lot of these post that people pussy foot around really helping some one out? Why? It's always a reply with a question and not an answer.

It's 20, 000 sqft of sidewalks, steps and driveways. 1/2 inch - 2inch they want everything treated after that snow removed.

I'm thinking 1 ventrac with power broom with spreader and 4 guys with shovels probably about 4 hrs. I pay them 15-20 per hr


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## Randall Ave

You also have to understand, what we charge in Jersey, can't be charged in many other states, it just wouldn't fly. What do you need to charge an hour per man, then for your equipment, and you. There are sidewalk guys on here, maby they will jump in. But no one can give you an exact price, everyone's overhead is different.


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## Plowboy15

Randall Ave said:


> You also have to understand, what we charge in Jersey, can't be charged in many other states, it just wouldn't fly. What do you need to charge an hour per man, then for your equipment, and you. There are sidewalk guys on here, maby they will jump in. But no one can give you an exact price, everyone's overhead is different.


I don't know I don't do hourly rate for snow removal. I don't do sidewalks this large. I have the right equipment and man power to get these done fast. An hourly rate wouldn't make me money. That's why I thought there would be a sqft price out there.


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## Luther

What's your real job pboy. You're obviously not...



Plowboy15 said:


> ....old to the snow removal business/QUOTE]


How do you price whatever it is you do?


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## Plowboy15

Luther said:


> What's your real job pboy. You're obviously not...
> 
> How do you price whatever it is you do?


Lol!! My real job? My real job is snow removal but I'm so busy I can pick and choose what we do. I do parking lots, streets... etc... like I said I don't do sidewalks this large. The responsibility involved is a lot when your depending on today's employees to show up for every snow event. My employees I have driving trucks are at the top I don't worry about them. But I'm gonna give this gig a shot. ( make sure you reply with an answer) we wanna be consistent.....yea?


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## Luther

So all you do is snow and ice management, and you’re clueless about sidewalks?


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## JMHConstruction

I'll show you mine if you show me yours....








there, now it's your turn.

And no one will steal your damn places, get over yourself.


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## Luther

Plowboy15 said:


> Lol!! My real job? My real job is snow removal but I'm so busy I can pick and choose what we do. I do parking lots, streets... etc... like I said I don't do sidewalks this large.


20,000sq ft of walks can't be a lot for someone that does so much snow.


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## Plowboy15

Luther said:


> 20,000sq ft of walks can't be a lot for someone that does so much snow.


I'm liking your post this way you feel accomplished tonight. Lol


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## Plowboy15




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## Plowboy15

There you go. Now can you give an answer? Let's see?


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## JMHConstruction

Those look like 3' walks, yes? I think the ventrac machines are too big. Maybe the new ride on ones, but for 1 account I don't see it being worth it.


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## Plowboy15

JMHConstruction said:


> Those look like 3' walks, yes? I think the ventrac machines are too big. Maybe the new ride on ones, but for 1 account I don't see it being worth it.


They are 5' some side ones are 3' we gotta do driveways also.


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## JMHConstruction

Plowboy15 said:


> They are 5' some side ones are 3' we gotta do driveways also.


I guess I was only looking at the bottom.

Anyway, I would think you're fairly close to the time it will take, if not over. I've never used a ventrac, so I'm not sure there. Do you only have the broom attachment? A plow might be helpful there too with the drives.

Like some have said above, and on many other posts, we can't actually find a number for you. We don't know your operating costs. I've never priced by the sqft on walks really, so I have no idea where I would be. Maybe $.04 - .05? I know my costs down to the minute on jobs, so I just go by how long I think it will take.

I charge $50-60 a shoveler (all I have), and double the price of my sidewalk deicer. I would guess my numbers are different than your, so really that's no help to you at all. I would probably charge what I do plowing for the guy on the machine.


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## 1olddogtwo

Who is doing the roads?


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## Plowboy15

1olddogtwo said:


> Who is doing the roads?


I do the roads. They always had maintenance guy do the sidewalks steps driveways


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## 1olddogtwo

So....why would you shovel the driveways?


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## Plowboy15

1olddogtwo said:


> So....why would you shovel the driveways?


He's no longer there so no more maintenance guy. Since I do the roads they asked me to do the rest. That's why and the only reason I would take this.


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## 1olddogtwo

Ok, let me ask you a question

So....why would you shovel the driveways?

I'm not attempting to be insulting just trying to help you follow the line questioning.

You currently plow the street, why wouldn't you plow the driveways, hence my question, why would you shovel the driveways?


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## Plowboy15

1olddogtwo said:


> Ok, let me ask you a question
> 
> So....why would you shovel the driveways?
> 
> I'm not attempting to be insulting just trying to help you follow the line questioning.
> 
> You currently plow the street, why wouldn't you plow the driveways, hence my question, why would you shovel the driveways?


I'm not sure where you got that I'm gonna shovel driveways when I said I would use a ventrac with broom or plow attachment


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## JMHConstruction

Plowboy15 said:


> I'm not sure where you got that I'm gonna shovel driveways when I said I would use a ventrac with broom or plow attachment


He's saying if you have a plow on site already, why not just use the plow to hit the driveway. Would be much faster


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## BUFF

Plowboy15 said:


> What's up Guys, I'm new here but old to the snow removal business but *new to 20,000 sqft of* *sidewalks, steps and driveways*. Ive always stayed away from a gig like this because depending on help. But I don't want to pass this up. I'm not sure how to bid this. Can anyone help. *I'm thing 1 ventrac with power* *broom with spreader and 4 guys with shovels?* Any thoughts?
> 
> Thank you


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## Plowboy15

Plowboy15 said:


> I'm not sure where you got that I'm gonna shovel driveways when I said I would use a ventrac with broom or plow attachment





JMHConstruction said:


> He's saying if you have a plow on site already, why not just use the plow to hit the driveway. Would be much faster


The timing is not going to work. I have other sites to clear.


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## 1olddogtwo

Oh, so ur going to pile the snow on the lawn?


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## JustJeff

Hold on.......What's the address for the site, and what State are you located in. I'll go there, eye it up for you, and then tell you what I'd bid it at.


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## JMHConstruction

After actually zooming in on the picture from my phone screen, I didn't realize how many drives there actually were. At a glance I just though only a handful had drives and the others just had walkways and parked in the street. That was my mistake.

Guys who've used ventrac, do they do alright for drives?

OP, with ~50 drives, even small, is quite a bit for a sidewalk crew to handle. I would think use a plow on the drives, and get the ventrac to another long run of sidewalks. That way each machine is being utilized in a way that is the most efficient. I get it if you can't, but from a production and revenue standpoint (assuming you can get the extra sidewalk work) that is what I would look into.


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## JMHConstruction

JustJeff said:


> Hold on.......What's the address for the site, and what State are you located in. I'll go there, eye it up for you, and then tell you what I'd bid it at.


:laugh:Thumbs Up


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## Plowboy15

1olddogtwo said:


> Oh, so ur going to pile the snow on the lawn?


No I'm gonna have them open their garage door and broom it straight in the garages and then the heat from the inside will melt the snow and go down the drain


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## JMHConstruction

Plowboy15 said:


> No I'm gonna have them open their garage door and broom it straight in the garages and then the heat from the inside will melt the snow and go down the drain


That's a good idea, and much cheaper than the snow dragon melter


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## Plowboy15

JustJeff said:


> Hold on.......What's the address for the site, and what State are you located in. I'll go there, eye it up for you, and then tell you what I'd bid it at.


It's 1234 round lake heights Illinois


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## JMHConstruction

For what it's worth, you're turning off a lot of guys with a lot of experience with your attitude. Don't feel like you need to prove yourself. Just take advice when you need it, and give it when you can. Thumbs Up


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## 1olddogtwo

Oh, I see we have a very witty individual among us.

So you want us to give you a cost on a procedure that you're doing very inefficiently.

We have a few of those problematic machines, best of luck, make sure you put a rock screen up around the drains.


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## Plowboy15

JMHConstruction said:


> For what it's worth, you're turning off a lot of guys with a lot of experience with your attitude. Don't feel like you need to prove yourself. Just take advice when you need it, and give it when you can. Thumbs Up


So the question about piling snow on the lawn and giving the address and state so he can tell me how much were serious questions??? I've been turned off by this site and people on here so it doesn't matter. You have been the only help everyone and I thank you for that. But I'll be done here it's a joke to me. I came here serious and now I'm not.


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## 1olddogtwo

Ok Mr know it all.

Since you won't have a truck on site to manage the street, and common sense it's saying you're not going to pile in the street because your customers aren't going to be happy....where else are you going put besides the obvious in the garage.

Do you have a lot to learn.


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## 1olddogtwo

Jeff's remark was about your paranoia, sorry PB15.


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## Plowboy15

1olddogtwo said:


> Ok Mr know it all.
> 
> Since you won't have a truck on site to manage the street, and common sense it's saying you're not going to pile in the street because your customers aren't going to be happy....where else are you going put besides the obvious in the garage.
> 
> Do you have a lot to learn.


Why are you asking me where I'm pushing snow? I didn't ask that. I asked for help on how to price sidewalks. Like I said everyone on this site pussy foot around the question when it comes to pricing. Ridiculous. 75% of you guys don't know how probably so you gotta pussy foot. If you don't know don't get involved and ask other questions so it looks like you know what your doing. If you don't know be a man and say I can't help you cause I don't know. What a joke. I'm out


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## Freshwater

Well I get busy on a weekend an miss the fun.
So plowboy, since you said you were out last night, yet you were viewing your own thread at 330 today you clearly don'twant to be out. 
Look nobody is going to bid it for you, especially when you putting the wrong equipment in the wrong spots. Guys will help with formulas, strategies, calculations, etc. They'll give you a beer, they wont pour it in your mouth for you. If you can't Put the truck doing roads on the drives too, your over booked. Measure your smaller walks and calc your time on those. That Wil give you a time per sq/ft of walks. Charge more for steps. You'l be fine.


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## Plowboy15

Freshwater said:


> Well I get busy on a weekend an miss the fun.
> So plowboy, since you said you were out last night, yet you were viewing your own thread at 330 today you clearly don'twant to be out.
> Look nobody is going to bid it for you, especially when you putting the wrong equipment in the wrong spots. Guys will help with formulas, strategies, calculations, etc. They'll give you a beer, they wont pour it in your mouth for you. If you can't Put the truck doing roads on the drives too, your over booked. Measure your smaller walks and calc your time on those. That Wil give you a time per sq/ft of walks. Charge more for steps. You'l be fine.


Ventrac is a wrong piece of equipment to do sidewalks and driveways? You really think that? I don't need to be there to do sidewalks. I have emoyees and machines and more machines


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## JustJeff

Plowboy15 said:


> What a joke. I'm out


But I thought you "were out"? I don't believe driveways are Ventrac's intended primary use.


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## Freshwater

Plowboy15 said:


> Ventrac is a wrong piece of equipment to do sidewalks and driveways? You really think that? I don't need to be there to do sidewalks. I have emoyees and machines and
> 
> wrong for drives when compared to a truck yes.
> Count the drives X by the amount you charge for drives. Use the ventrac if you want.
> Calc how long for 10 sq/ft of walks shoveling, and for 10sq/ft ventrac. You can then calc that into any sq/ft you want. X by your hourly rate. Add the 2 together and you have a per push number.


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## Plowboy15

Ok I'll use a truck.


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## Plowboy15

No I'll use a ventrac... it will do sidewalks and driveways with a spreader on the back. I'll make money.


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## Plowboy15

Freshwater said:


> Well I get busy on a weekend an miss the fun.
> So plowboy, since you said you were out last night, yet you were viewing your own thread at 330 today you clearly don'twant to be out.
> Look nobody is going to bid it for you, especially when you putting the wrong equipment in the wrong spots. Guys will help with formulas, strategies, calculations, etc. They'll give you a beer, they wont pour it in your mouth for you. If you can't Put the truck doing roads on the drives too, your over booked. Measure your smaller walks and calc your time on those. That Wil give you a time per sq/ft of walks. Charge more for steps. You'l be fine.


And why are you creeping and looking when I come on here? ...... wired


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## Freshwater

Plowboy15 said:


> And why are you creeping and looking when I come on here? ...... wired


Lol... why are you creeping and looking who posted on your thread after your out? 
I look because none of you guys are ever really out and It makes me LMFAO every time.


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## Arrowbrook99

I gotta tell you these guys are trying to help but they need information to try and make a deasent call. 20,000 sq feet is not a big area.i don’t feel i know as much as the others but if you want my opinion. It seem like you labor is $80 for the hour. Add equipment,fuel and insurance coast. Add that in. Then triple it. That is what you should get for an hours work. I’m guessing you should be making $300 if your there an hour. Another great point is location. Like said snow removal in NJ is big bucks. Rural area upstate NY much less. Could be half. Depending on income area. Rich people spend money to have stuff done for them.


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## Randall Ave

I do a driveway here, driveway is one car wide, maybe 80 ft. Takes bout 4 minutes, the side walk is bout the same. I get $80.00. and it's a relative.


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## Plowboy15

Arrowbrook99 said:


> I gotta tell you these guys are trying to help but they need information to try and make a deasent call. 20,000 sq feet is not a big area.i don't feel i know as much as the others but if you want my opinion. It seem like you labor is $80 for the hour. Add equipment,fuel and insurance coast. Add that in. Then triple it. That is what you should get for an hours work. I'm guessing you should be making $300 if your there an hour. Another great point is location. Like said snow removal in NJ is big bucks. Rural area upstate NY much less. Could be half. Depending on income area. Rich people spend money to have stuff done for them.


Thank you


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## Plowboy15

Randall Ave said:


> I do a driveway here, driveway is one car wide, maybe 80 ft. Takes bout 4 minutes, the side walk is bout the same. I get $80.00. and it's a relative.


Thank you


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## Arrowbrook99

Plowboy15 said:


> Thank you


Hope it helped. Gotta love jersey thought. $80 that's great.


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## zicesariz

i charge $70 for a two car garage 1800 square ft for 1 to 3 inches


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