# "White 2500HD at Auction"(don't buy)



## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

If anyone happens to see a 2002 White 2500HD Ext. Cab Long Box with 8.1L/Allison and 28,000 miles don't buy it. 
After 5 trips to the dealer in the last 30 days for tranny problems i have traded it in and bought a new truck.

New truck:
2003 2500HD 6.0L Ext. Cab short bed Blue. 
Power seat, stereo buttons on the steering wheel, dual heaters,, just some of the new toys. I'll fill you in with the rest of the options later,,i haven't even seen the truck yet.


----------



## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

Im curious, why did you choose not to get the Dmax? Congrats on the new truck purchase, I bet you sleep better knowing that problem is gone! I cant wait to see how you set it up.

-John-


----------



## Mike Fronczak (Nov 28, 2001)

Had it with truck??


----------



## BigRedBarn (Jan 4, 2003)

The Duramax is a $5010.00 option, plus another $2295.00 for the HD automatic (Allison 5-speed), which is required with the Duramax, I'm told, unless you go with the HD manual tranny. Those prices are from Novemnber when I ordered my truck.

The 8100 is "only" $850.00, plus HD tranny cost. I'm a piker who only drives a coupla thousand miles a year in the truck, so I got the 8100 w/ Allison. Suits my needs for a "heavy hauler."

Diesel is going for almost $2.00/gallon around here. Regular gas is $1.69.9-1.77.9 today on my drive home. But, diesels will get "much" higher MPG's over comparable gas engines. Plus, there's the lower maintenance and high-mileage capability for diesels.

You have to look at what driving you do. Pull a trailer for long distances and drive 40-50K per year? Yeah, go for a diesel. Me, couple thousand miles max per year and drive a mid-size car the reat of the time (don't tell anyone, OK?)? Big block. I love that engine. Plus, I love the way the Allison shifts: quick, seamless, not jerky.

OK, now to left field. WHY, OH, WHY don't U.S. full-size truckmakers offer a "basic" diesel engine? You know, a nice little (emphesis on little) in-line 6 for use in the ½ tons that'll get good mileage BUT NOT COST AN ARM AND A LEG?

Am I the only one who sees a real need that's not being met here? Why only high-cost, high-end diesels engines? 

Sorry to rant and rave, but it just seems like such an obvious need in the marketplace. First U.S. truck builder to offer one will get the entire market (for a time) for such a truck.

That's just my feeble 2¢.

Anyway, thanks for the head's up on the white, used truck. Glad you stuck with GM.


----------



## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

Snowy---i didn't buy the duramax because i wanted to get away from the allison mainly. I know not many people are having problems with them but i was. 

Bigred-- I have to stay with GM. With the GMS discount and the $3000 rebate right now i walked into a new truck for $1054.00.

I couldn't see not buying it with the problems i had. 
The truck had a paint problem, 1000's of little rust spots, my many tranny problems, and i crushed the roof, and second door on the drivers side, not to mention all the other scapes and dings and the 28,000 miles on the speedo.


----------



## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

BigRedBarn,according to GM's own durability testing the average 8100 will last as long as the average Duramax diesel.Of course there are some that go 1/2 million miles,and some that fail at 30000 mikles,but GM has the 8100 at 200000+ miles,and the Duramax at 250000+ average service life. Pretty close IMO. Earthscapes good luck with your new 03,the turning radius is so much better with the short box.I hope this one serves you as well as your old C/K did. The 4L80E is a proven performer,you hav had good luck in the past with,I dont blame you one bit for going back to it.


----------



## BigRedBarn (Jan 4, 2003)

Dumb questions:

Can you get a short bed on a 2500HD? I didn't think you could. It doesn't matter for my needs, as I need an 8 foot bed, but I was curious. 

Can you get snowplow prep on a short bed?


----------



## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

You'll probably be glad you got rid of it.The rail dust,or little spots in the paint will never have gone away without a strip and repaint.

Best of luck with the new truck.


----------



## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

Big Red--- yes to both questions
the 03's come with a 145amp alternator instead of the 130amp in the 02's


----------



## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

Earthscapes - you made a smart decision - don't go with Allison tranny. I have heard many, many problems about them from another source on the internet. 

The 6.0L gas engine have plenty of power. Probably more power before you could break traction when snowplowing. Also it will be much easier on the truck front end, and it will have more capacity of carrying snowplow. 4L80E is probably the best transmission for GM full size pickup trucks. Alot of people are very successful and happy with them. 

So again, smart decision!  And good luck with your new truck! Too bad it is 2003 ugly design!  Just kidding.


----------



## ksland (Nov 27, 2002)

Great! now you can make 5 more trips to the dealer with the ticking noise in the 6.0L engine. I am on trip #4


----------



## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

From what I have heard from GM, they said that the ticking noise on 6.0L gas engine is normal and does not indicate any problems. Alot of people reported that but did not have any engine problem. It's just a little annoying noise.


----------



## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

KIsland,why are you taking it back for somethign that is normal.If they replace it the new one will tick too.The 6.0 is vey unrefined ,just think of the poor guys that paid 55K for the 345hp Caddy version of the 6.0,(Escalade) and it sounds like a sewing machine,knocks in the morning ,and uses oil if they tow or run it hard.I have a friend with one,he loves the truck,hates the 6.0.


----------



## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

wxmn- you hit the nail on the head "I bought an ugly truck" 
I'm wondering what i can do to make it look nicer,,thoughts anyone ??

ksland-->> Turn your radio up Louder


----------



## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

This is gonna sound crazy but i think it's still on topic,i noticed a ticking in my 99' Chevy with the Vortec 5.7(the now "old" Chevy)I thought for sure it was something in the valve assembly and really had me worried,a couple weeks went by and i got looking at it and feeling around and it was the ball inside the PCV valve rattling around and sounded EXACTLY like a valve problem!I'm no pro mechanic but am mechanicly inclined and been fixing my own vehicles and equipment for some time now and that pretty much blew me away!A $3 part and i thought it was ready to shoot a valve out the top,anyways i would assume there is more to the 6.0 probs than that but i thought i'd share that anyways:waving:


----------



## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Arc,glad it was just the PCV valve. The think no one wants to hear id tht this isnt a problemIt is normal for the 6.0(everyone wants it fixed,but it isnt a problem.My Cummins has a knock too ,they fixed it in the 2003 models, .


----------



## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

John,LOL,i had an old Toyota 4x4 with a 4cyl. and a couple hundred thousand miles,pulled into the post office one day next to a buddy with a chevy 6.5,only my truck was still running,his was off,my buddy came out,started his up and pulled away and the guy i was talking to looked at me and said "i thought that was HIS truck running!My poor old Toyoti used to knock,cough,spit and cry vital fluids all over but i never really stopped to think that it sounded that bad


----------



## ebaron (Dec 27, 2002)

*Make the Chevy front end look better*

Earthscapes,
Here is my recommendation.
Front end sheetmetal and trim comes off easily. Remove, then replace with GMC front end.

Great conversation piece! You can tell them it was special ordered.


----------



## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

Well i think it's starting to grow on me. I really like the 6.0L seems to have plenty of power so far. The truck handles the plow alot better than the old one to. All i have done so far is add the plow and the mini light bar,,i don't think i'm going to letter this one,,maybe some magnet signs:


----------



## A.L. Inc. (Jan 4, 2002)

Earthscapes- I like the new truck, hope you have better luck with this one. I have about 8500 miles on my 6.0 so far, no problems whatsoever. Good luck, Mike


----------



## JCurtis (May 14, 2001)

*I'm wondering .................*

If the front sheet metal from a 2002 will fit on a 2003.....

I do like the 2003 GMC front end sheet metal a whole lot more that that crappy Chevy front end.

What in Gods name were the designer's thinking of or what kind of drugs were they on when they designed this ugly front end??????:realmad: 


Maybe we should  the designers


----------



## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Jeff, it is not necessary to  the designers, just dont buy there trucks,that will get there attention better than anything else. I hate to say this but I used to be a diehard GM man,I looked at the 03 GMC HDs' I think they are starting to look like an import truck,the soft line,and gently slopes,yuk. Look at the bold in youyr face stance of the Ram,and F super duty,its a no brainer,the GM;s just dont have it,in additon to being a lowrider.I really did like the 02 HD's,they just needed to raise them (the frame)up to HD truck height,not SUV/minvan height. Earthscapes I love the color of your new truck,good luck with it.


----------



## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

Earthscapes I will say good luck with the new truck hope this one will work good for you.But on a second note I like the 02's much better than the 03's and like John said don't buy them and that is what I plan to do not buy Chevy I too have had nothing but the Chevy but They way GM is going they look to much like crap . And as much of the reason to buy a truck is looks as well as performance.

You know those surveys that they have well I always would like to say there are three things that i consider a number 1 
Price ,quality , and looks and the way Gm is going looks like none of my responses got on there list.


----------



## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

Keep the plow frame on all year, that will help hide the front end treatment. Not be bearer of bad news, but my Fatheri in laws 2002 HD 2500 with the 6.0 lost the tranny at 9K. he traded it for a 03 same truck other wise. I liked the 02, I hate his 03.
Dino


----------



## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

I drank a few beers today while watching the race and the truck is starting to look better 
I'm going to look at some bugshields and dressup items this week. I figure out a way to make my ugly truck look better. 
John i do agree with you i really like the color of the truck, as i said before i never saw it before i picked it up last wednesday nite, thats the nice thing about fax machines you can buy anything without ever seeing what it looks like.
Plowking---- If this truck is as bad as my old one i'll just go buy another one. i can't leave the plow frame on(only the lower mount) 

What i like about this truck:
The truck headlights are super bright
Steering wheel controls
the onboard computer tells me everthing
Power camper mirrors (press a button they extend 5 inches)
Bose stereo
the color
the 6.0L seems peppy 

What i don't like:
No lights underhood and dash
the 26 gallon tank (didn't know that till i read the book)
No lumbar in the power bucket seat 
fuel milage is about the same as the 8.1L (i thought it would be a little better)
Thats it so far with 475 miles on it


----------



## Terrasnow (Oct 23, 2002)

Well, your nice blue truck looks just like the one I was going to buy a few months ago. I chickened out then because of cost/worry about gas mileage and durability.

I am looking again and can't decide between the 6.0 and 8.1 L engines. Can you tell me what numbers you are getting with your new 6.0, and what you got with the 8.1?

I am thinking, too, about getting a crew cab short box and putting a Western Ultramount on it.


----------



## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

terra - just turned 27,000 miles 

6.0 L with 4.10 gears

10 mpg around town
13-14 mpg highway
8 mpg highway with 28' enclosed trailer & 6000# inside

with the 8.1L add +2 to each one with 3.73 gears


----------



## Terrasnow (Oct 23, 2002)

Earth,

You are actually getting worse mileage with the 6.0 compared to the 8.1 ?!?

Is the 6.0 worth it? I saw you got rid of the other truck partly due to the Allison.

I hear that the 8.1 requires a quart of oil between oil changes. Did you have this problem, and do you need to add oil to the 6.0 between changes?

Would you buy another 2500HD, 4.1 axle given your experience to date?


----------



## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

Terra-----

1. The fuel milage may be the result of 4.10's compared to 3.73's

2. I got rid of my other truck ALL because of the Allison.

3. All bigblocks burn oil (my 90' 2 quarts between changes)
uummmmm nope not on the 6.0 L

4. Most definitely !!!!!!!!!! 
If i had the cash i would have another one right now.


----------



## JML (Dec 27, 1999)

Earthscapes, Do they have a lemon law in your state, if so why didn't you try to get that.. My expedition was vibrating on the highway at 65 mph +. I got a lemon law attorney and ford settled outta court for $11,000. Put new tires, new rims, new suspension, everything. I alreada had 30k miles on the truck too.. Thanks ford....


----------



## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

I believe that Earthscapes did go through lemon law and got a new truck after trading in the "lemon" truck he had. 

As far as with the motor, I have a '02 Chevy 2500HD with 6.0L motor and I love it. It has plenty of power, it can be a beast if you are not being careful with it. I can easily spin the tires with a little gas. It probably has more power than you would ever have to use. When plowing, the traction is the biggest thing you need, with truck power in second. Just in about every case, you would break traction before you could use up all the power it have. 

As for gas mileage, I am getting around 14MPG highway, not towing. I get about 11-12 MPG towing in town. 

As with the 8.1 gas motor, I heard several people reported that the mileage is almost the same as 6.0L, but the 8.1L gas is about 2 MPG lower than the 6.0L.


----------



## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

When I got my 98 454 Gm at about 12000 miles it developed a ticking noise on start up. Gm said IT WAS NORMAL DON'T WORRY
anyways I felt safe that it was documented, a year later the dealer ship called said they found a cure, a programming change to the computer, Right! Anyways they reprogramed the computer and the noise disappeared. My Vortec 454 was better on fuel then my 350 TBI and plowing was close to my 6.2 diesel, and more torque and HP

Bill
PS my 454 gave 19 MPG hyw and 15 town, my Dodge V10 18 hyw, 14 town ( CDN gallons! )


----------



## BWhite (Sep 30, 2002)

*stephen*

You have a good point ....all the torque and horsepower in the world wont help without traction . If snowplowing was the only factor any decent gas V-8 would be plenty


----------



## JustUsDe (Aug 14, 2003)

I got my 3000 mile oil change yesterday. The mechanic said everything looks good. He was impressed with the plow setup. He said unless you really look good at the truck you can't tell it has a plow. So far no problems with the truck. I only wish it came with 265 instead of 245 tires. 

Ray


----------



## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

That's an easy problem to fix Ray. In 22,000 miles when you need new tires, you can upgrade to 265/75-16 or, as many guys do, you can go up to a 285/75-16. They make the truck sit higher, or at least appear that way, and fill the wheel wells butter than the 245's. The best part: The speedo won't be off, since the dealerships can reprogram the speedometer/odometer with their diagnostic interface.

Just something to think about in 20k miles!


----------



## ChevyHD4X4 (Mar 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JustUsDe _
> *. I only wish it came with 265 instead of 245 tires.
> 
> Ray *


I put 285's on my HD and they rubbed with the plow so I installed a 3" bodylift, problem fixed. I also I have a set of green keys installed to help! 

Just thought you should know if you wanted to go bigger then 265's.


----------



## JustUsDe (Aug 14, 2003)

I hope I get more than 20,000 miles out of my tires. Okay what are green keys?

 

Ray


----------



## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

Your torsion bars are held in torsion by these little cams. If you look back under the door, you will find a crossmember where the torsion bars end. There you will find a small pork chop shaped thing, where the adjusting bolt is. This is the torsion bar key. The 2500HD's use a purple key, basically it is a GM part and it has a little purple spot painted on it. If you want to get more height adjustment out of the front of your truck, you can replace these keys with the ones that come from a 1500, same key, with a green spot, hence the "green keys" designation. The difference between these two is that the 1500 key has a differntly oriented hex hole cut in it. It allows for you to basically have that bolt at the very begining of its threads, but the truck will sit at the same place that the other keys may have been maxed out. Many times since the truck sits so low in the front, people replace these and crank them up too make the truck sit level with the 'sky-high' rear.
It only takes a few minutes, and an alignment is required, but it seems to be a new fad amongst IFS truck owners. So far, none have reported any premature failures or excessive wear.

If I can do this, I will post a link to another forum that has a much more detailed explanation Torsion bar key explanation

I hope that helped a little. If not, I will try to find a few pictures to help illustrate a little better.


----------



## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

Here's a picture Ray. Click this link , and then turn your head 90°to the left, the picture is sideways.


----------



## JustUsDe (Aug 14, 2003)

Thanks for the info.

I learn something everyday.

Ray


----------



## JCurtis (May 14, 2001)

Ray,

When you are ready for new tires, check out TireRack.com

I ordered my tires through them. Really easy!!!!! shipped right to the door and a good price compared to local shops.

I opted for the Bridgestone Dueler A/T REVO with UNI-T AQ II

I went with 265.75R x16 10 ply E rating instead of the standard 245's... I am not regretting it so far. They have an excellent ride.

They are supposed to have excellent traction in snow and rain... 

I have had plenty of rain to drive them in, and they hold the road fine, can't wait to test them out in snow!!!!!!!!


----------



## Terrasnow (Oct 23, 2002)

*Allison Trans*

Earthscapes,

Could you elaborate on the problems that you were having with your old Allsion tranny?

I am curious because the 5-speed looks attractive with the 3.73 axle ratio from a gas mileage standpoint. If I experience 2 mpg better with the 8.1 L/ 3.73/ 5-speed combo (over the 6.0 L/ 4.10/ 4spd) like you did, the extra cost would pay for itself in gas before I paid off the loan... plus I'd get the extra torque for towing my boat.

Of course, I would not be too happy if the truck was unreliable. In another posting (http://www.plowsite.com//showthread.php?threadid=11636&goto=newpost
), ratlover described an NSBU switch problem. When it had problems he got a "shift range inhibited" error. Sounds like they have an updated design.

Comments? Your help is appreciated. I plan to buy very soon.


----------



## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Terrasnow,I would expect no better MPG with the 8100/3.73 than the 6.0 /4.10. The OD ratios are almost identical,and the RPM difference,is about 250RPM at 60MPH.It is not enough to offset the extra displacement ,weight,and drag of the bigger engine.If you want 2mpg-6mpg better than your 6.0,get the Duramax,it wil do even better than that,and it wil yank the boat easier than either gasser.


----------

