# How many times can someone ask...



## landstroker51 (Dec 15, 2004)

How many times do guys ask what to charge on a particular job on this site?
If they knew what they were doing this wouldnt happen.
Or are they all weekend warriors trying to steal more work.


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## Rainman (Dec 10, 2003)

How did you start out plowing!
Was the business handed to you on a SILVER SPOON.
There are people out there that are trying to a start business and they have to start somewhere. Not everyone can go and quit their job to go into the plowing business. Some people actually have to feed their families and pay bills. My opinion is keep your sarcasm to yourself. I am pretty sure you were a LOWBALLER yourself at one time.


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## landstroker51 (Dec 15, 2004)

Never a lowballer!
Started the right & honest way.
I dont screw people because this is my business & I like good relationships with people. I want their return business.
I can understand ask a question here and there, but shouldnt you research or plan for yourself if your going out and bidding on things. I would never ask or tell another contractor about my business or what I know about this business. I keep what I know to myself and maybe get a edge on someone else. It is called being smart and protecting what you know or dont know.
I usually ask other contractors about equipment things or weather related issues - small talk.


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

landstroker51 said:


> I would never ask or tell another contractor about my business or what I know about this business.
> 
> SO WHY ARE YOU HERE?


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## landstroker51 (Dec 15, 2004)

Well I thought this a PROFESSIONAL site but I seem wrong.
I wont last long here dont worry.


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## BLIZZARD BUSTER (Apr 1, 2004)

This Is A Professional Site!
This Is A Site Where People Are Helping People That Are In The Same Business!

Judi


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## DJL (Oct 28, 2003)

landstroker51,

I've learned the hard way also. If you voice your opinion and it happens to differ from the majority you get flamed. I mean if you are just starting out in business why would you ask another business "what do I charge for a 20X50 driveway?" The answers will differ from business to business. So, now I just reply with telling them it depends upon THEIR expenses and what THEY expect to profit...not what another company does or doesn't. If you tell them its a stupid question then people jump down your throat. You're better off just not responding or responding and letting the meaningless criticism roll right off.

And yes, I agree about stupid questions. Too list a few...

Which is better Ford or Chevy?
Is a BOSS better than a WESTERN plow?
What do I charge for a driveway?
Is $300 the correct amount for my parking lot?
What is the going rate for subcontracting?

The funny thing is, not many people can give a creditable answer. I mean I've only owned a Chevy and GMC. How can I answer that Ford is worse, or better? Same goes for the type of snowplow. And as far as what I charge for a residential driveway why would I let my competitors know what I'm charging? So I can get undercut (and rightfully so) and lose the account? DUH!!

Since I'm already ranting. I responded to a post last year with someone asking for a copy of someone's contract. My response to this thread was something along the lines of why should I give you a copy of my contract for free? I paid good money (attorney fee) and spent a lot of time researching what should be in the contract. Also spent time with my insurance agent to dot my I's and cross my T's. I got ridiculed and basically told to get off the site if I didn't want to help. Now, I did call the poster a jackass...so yes I did go a little far but it really bothers me when someone is acting like a freeloader...  Let me join this site and get copies of proposals, contracts, etc. for absolutely nothing!!!  

Hey if you want to give it out, all the power to ya...me I think you are doing a disservice. Hey, opinions are like a-holes we all have 'em and they all stick.


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## bnrhuffman (Feb 26, 2004)

Im new here so I may be getting in over my head on this one but Im sitting at home bored with nothing else to do at the moment.
I am a part timer. There, I said it. Ive got another full time job that pays the bills.
Does that mean I shouldnt plow because I dont do it full time?
Does it mean I should'nt come here to share information?
I do agre that asking what to charge isnt good business.
I dont really care what everyone else charges for a job. Ive got my own expenses and overhead, fortunately for me, its less overhead than most full timers have and I dont NEED the plow money to pay the bills. That probably makes me a lowballer or weekend warrior, but if you were as professional as you claim, you would know that its none of your business and not your problem how much I charge, how many accounts I have or how much time I spend on them. I know enough about business to know that we all have our own needs as far as profit is concerned so you will never hear me ask what to charge, I really dont care what you charge, I charge what I have to.


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## DJL (Oct 28, 2003)

Nothing wrong with being a part-timer. Heck, if you can charge $5 for a driveway and make a profit, good for you. You'll steal all of my accounts...but that is business. Watch out though, you'll get coined a "lowballer" and accused of taking food off of others table. LOL


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## thundercat99 (Dec 15, 2003)

*cia and plowing*

gentlemen, this is not a secret society its not the cia but sometimes members treat it that way, we are not members of an exclusive club this is a forum that was started around a common intrest. people join this site to learn more about this buisness or sharpen the skills that they already have,
everyone asked questions possibly stupid questions in the beginning. those of you that were in the buisness before this site was developed might of asked your buddy that plowed "how much do you think i should charge for this lot"
or maybe you were working as a sub and your boss was your question answering professional. with todays tecnicaly advanced world we now have a place were guys and girls can get together from across the country and pool there knowledge to help each other and the new kid on the block.

this is my 2 cents hope not to many people get offended


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## glenspot (Aug 11, 2004)

My suggestion to those with questions, is to try to come up with an intelligent figure FIRST yourself...

Then bring your thoughts to this panel, and get the varying opinions. At least then you show that you've put some thought into it, even if it is misguided. (lol)

At that point you get to see what others think of your marketing, pricing or whatever. 

If you show that you've put a significant amount of thought, etc into your question you will get some very good discussion going.

Glen


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## Robhollar (Dec 27, 2003)

Stroker, 

Man that just tears it. I hope you take pleasure in knowing that you are the first one only person on my ignore list. Since youve been here youve had nothing remotely nice to say. All I can hope is that you dont go through life with that neg attitude. Life is way to short to go through it all po'd. Dont bother to reply to my post I had to ignore all of your past and future post. Have a nice life....Rob


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## Young Pup (Aug 13, 2004)

Robhollar said:


> Stroker,
> 
> Man that just tears it. I hope you take pleasure in knowing that you are the first one only person on my ignore list. Since youve been here youve had nothing remotely nice to say. All I can hope is that you dont go through life with that neg attitude. Life is way to short to go through it all po'd. Dont bother to reply to my post I had to ignore all of your past and future post. Have a nice life....Rob


Hey Rob,

We got lucky they banned him. So they should delete this thread.You are right he does have a bad attitude.

JP


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## NJ Plowman (Dec 10, 2003)

Hey STROKER, say some more bad things about friefighters...aint nothing in life like making friends wherever you go!


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## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

Stroker is banned finally. There's a few more who need to join him.


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

The Boss said:


> Stroker is banned finally. There's a few more who need to join him.


Like... T****s ? Or P*****rL**d?


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## PlowboyBlake (Dec 17, 2003)

Plow Meister said:


> Like... T****s ? Or P*****rL**d?


Yes Chris,
You have won the prize on who should get kicked off plowsite. You can now have 1 snowstorm that will make you lots of money. :waving:

Thanks a lot for playing but doing so in a serious way. :waving:


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## scuba875 (Dec 22, 2004)

I'm new here and the reason I was searching for a site like this was for information. Being new I try not to ask questions unless I can't find the answers on the site somewhere. I don't see why stroker would get so upset over something so silly. I think just like in any business if you provied good customer service and make a personal connection with your customers they aren't going to jump ship for a few bucks. My main business is very cut throat and no one talks to each other even to say hi. It is so bad that we have to hire security to watch equipment at night. I have 2 guys offering 50% of the gross sales when I am giving 25 or 30 and I have not lost one in 10 years. Every other company is loosing acounts at about the rate of 2 or 3 a season. Why don't we loose acounts because we do what ever it takes to keep the customer happy, we are honest with them at all times and we take what started as a business relationship and turn it into a friendship.


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## Runner (Jul 21, 2000)

I feel that one of the main reasons I like to help with pricing, is that it helps everyone within the area. I'd rather these newbies be out bidding competitively and making some money, than spending two years spoiling the market with low prices that ruin the market for everyone. It takes that long for some to learn and start to get their prices dialed in. The same thing goes for mowing and other operations. The idea is - to keep the industry standards up, so the market isn't ruined by a bunch of those who just don't know how to cover the costs. There is always giong to be those "weekend warriors" such as shop workers, retirees, and so forth that do services for below market value for the simple reason that they are able to due to non payment of taxes and adequate insurances. However, when these guys know the true pricing structure, you can rest assured they are going to try to get all they can. Yes, there are those few that will still bid low to get the work, but atleast this is then filtered down, as far as the amount of them that do this.


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## DJL (Oct 28, 2003)

glenspot said:


> My suggestion to those with questions, is to try to come up with an intelligent figure FIRST yourself...
> 
> Then bring your thoughts to this panel, and get the varying opinions. At least then you show that you've put some thought into it, even if it is misguided. (lol)
> 
> ...


I'd have to agree with your statement. It is very well put. Instead of just asking extremely vague questions...put some thought into it...

this will give (IMO) a better conversation and warrent a better discussion.


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## Kramer (Nov 13, 2004)

And yes, I agree about stupid questions. Too list a few...

Which is better Ford or Chevy?
Is a BOSS better than a WESTERN plow?
What do I charge for a driveway?
Is $300 the correct amount for my parking lot?
What is the going rate for subcontracting?

The funny thing is, not many people can give a creditable answer. I mean I've only owned a Chevy and GMC. How can I answer that Ford is worse, or better? Same goes for the type of snowplow. And as far as what I charge for a residential driveway why would I let my competitors know what I'm charging? So I can get undercut (and rightfully so) and lose the account? DUH!!





Frankly, I have a few problems with this. I don't think there are any stupid questions---especially from new people/plowers. Personally I've been doing it for many years and with many different types of trucks and have had to learn it all the hard way. Its nice to see a place where people can get some advice-----I'm sure that sometime in your life you needed help--- I hope someone was there for you!

I think this site has been very helpful to a lot of people.

With regard to questions about pricing, if you're so concerned about posting then don't. I have no problem telling people that ~ $25 for a std 25 x 50ft drive in my area seems to be the going rate. If you're that scared of competition then maybe you should get out of business.


I don't believe there is anything lost by giving either business or technical advice to new plowers. That is the intent of this site---not to have people pretend to be professional till it gets a little too close to their comfort zone.

Why don't you take a lesson from ole Jim--- he gives away years of experience hoping to forward the professionalism of the snow removal industry. :salute:


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## DJL (Oct 28, 2003)

*Frankly, I have a few problems with this. I don't think there are any stupid questions---especially from new people/plowers. *

We'll have to agree to disagree...would it be better if I replaced the word stupid with either "not well thought out" or "vague".

*Personally I've been doing it for many years and with many different types of trucks and have had to learn it all the hard way. Its nice to see a place where people can get some advice-----I'm sure that sometime in your life you needed help--- I hope someone was there for you!*

Agreed that its nice to have a place were people can get some advice. And yes, I've needed help, although not very often...  Yes, someone was there for me.

*I think this site has been very helpful to a lot of people.*

Again, agreed.

*With regard to questions about pricing, if you're so concerned about posting then don't. I have no problem telling people that ~ $25 for a std 25 x 50ft drive in my area seems to be the going rate. If you're that scared of competition then maybe you should get out of business.*

Please indicate where I said I was concerned about posting to questions about pricing? I said I wouldn't tell someone what I was charging. If you think something is wrong with that, ok. Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. If you want to, all the power to ya.

IMO, it would be a BS response anyway. I have no idea what your expenses are. So how do I know what you are looking to profit or how much time you've estimated for the job, equipment you have at your disposal, and all the other questions that go along with pricing/estimating.

*I don't believe there is anything lost by giving either business or technical advice to new plowers. That is the intent of this site---not to have people pretend to be professional till it gets a little too close to their comfort zone.*

Agree with your first sentence. Not sure what your "intent" of the site definition means. Please explain.

*Why don't you take a lesson from ole Jim--- he gives away years of experience hoping to forward the professionalism of the snow removal industry.*

What's the lesson?

Happy Holidays :waving:


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## cidhandyman (Dec 27, 2004)

*Snow Blower removal work....*

Hello group. I'm new to this site and I have a question that I havent seen in any other posts. Is there anyone out here doing snow blowing work? If not then how do you handle sidewalk cleanup for shopping centers and residential work? I'm starting off REALLY small and any help would be appreciated.

Thanks all


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## glenspot (Aug 11, 2004)

cidhandyman said:


> Hello group. I'm new to this site and I have a question that I havent seen in any other posts. Is there anyone out here doing snow blowing work? If not then how do you handle sidewalk cleanup for shopping centers and residential work? I'm starting off REALLY small and any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks all


Hey Candyman,

Welcome to plowsite. I keep a snowblower in the back of my plow truck for a couple of residentials that have requested it. I don't really do many commercial lots, so I can't help you there.

My biggest problem I've had so far with the snowblower.

1. Getting it down of the truck. I have ramps, but usually by the time i get it started, get it down, get it warmed up....I could have shoveled.

2. On VERY cold mornings mine has a tough time starting. Mine is a very good starter usually. First pull or second. The pull chain is usually easier than the electric start (getting out the cord, finding a 110 outlet, etc). But, again on those EXTREMELY cold mornings. It just won't start with the pull cord and I need to find an outlet to plug it in to. (Not always available)

3. Lastly, Deciding whether or not its worth the time. I honestly only snow blow for 1 person that I also plow for. (An in-law). I could plow another driveway for the time it takes me to snow blow her walk. So. Do I charge her $25 just to snow blow the walk? No, of course not. I loose money, technically. (I do snow blow for one other person who I do NOT plow for. But this person is not on my "route" he is an "afternoon add-on" that I do at the end of the storm, and at the end of my regular route...and after my day job)

Sideline discussions......

I haven't been able to use the back of my truck since winter started. (snowblowers been in there)

If you are thinking about hiring people to run the blower for you. Suddenly you grow from a one man operation to a full-blown employer..with payroll taxes & The possibility that this snow blow operator is going to cut a hand off...and sue you for it.

There's my thoughts on the snowblower aspect of it.

Glen


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## glenspot (Aug 11, 2004)

I wrote Candyman...when I should have written cidhandyman....sorry about that. Must need new glasses.


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## wfd44 (Jan 31, 2004)

Pretty impressive. Landstroker got himself banned in less than 2 weeks on the site.


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## plowman350 (Jul 19, 2004)

*change in course*

I know this thread has moved from its orginal couple posts, but let me put in my 2 cents.

This site is an incedible resource for both the new and seasoned pros. I don't believe in "never show your cards" to other pros. We're all in this business, and collective discussion is how we keep a fair market out there. when you ask someone how much to charge, you'll get a range of responses. This can only give the "new guy" a range....an he can pick right up in the middle. Do you realize that when we give a new guy our prices, you're helping to prevent him from lowballing? Most people don't understand the expenses behind bigger operations, and therefore when starting out, charge way to little, which only drives down price for the rest of us.... Share your prices and keep the market working upwards,, not downwards.

And, besides, who here really "Competes" with others on this site? Plowing is a very local business, I guarantee that if I share my prices with someone in Ohio, I will not compete with them for business! There may be only 3-4 people on this site in the same exact area I work in, and there's more work here than the 3-4 of us could even tackle ourselves!

Do you know why the "big stores" Have price match guarantees? It's actually a marketing scam to keep prics HIGHER! People shop where they shop, and will try to get the best price at their store. when a company agrees to match prices, they research other stores prices first and make sure they're all close so that nobody loses. This prevents any of them from lowering their price....if you lower your price to get more sales volume, those people you're trying to attract will go somewhere else and get your price at their store. THere goes the sales volume. .....anyways, a little bit of marketing class coming back here, but price matching is a way to keep prices high. So, back to plowing, don't be afraid to share pricing/policies/ideas, strategies with people, it helps support the supply and demand cycles we need to be in our favor for higher prices so we can feed our families.

Hope I didn't bore you with this one, sometimes I just get on a role.


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## ibelee (Dec 7, 2004)

*Boy I'm Glad i read this Thread!!!*

I am a sucessful small General Contractor. Due to my contacts in this area I have landed several contracts, and am negotiating more, to date. This will be my first year plowing. I have invested, what I consider to be, a considerable amount of money into this. Although there is not as much competition in my area as what some of you experience, I still do not want to charge less that the going rate. I understand that rates vary from place to place, so I will not ask for a specific price to do a specific job, but the questions that have been asked by others who did not know how to charge have been very valuable to me. When I started building I did not know what to charge. Thank God for the openness of others who had gone before or I might be bankrupt now. Just as I did then, I have taken the information that was given in this forum and adjusted it to fit my area and my personal circumstances. I do not feel that I am a financial threat to most on this site, so if you stop sharing your experiences and your knowledge, where will I go to find guidance? You guys are the Pro's. I use the search feature of the forum, I listen to what you have to say. I have bought 2 plows a new truck, and have made modifications, all because of the info I have gathered from this forum. I am a "nubie" as ya'all call it... but when it comes my time, I hope that some of my experiences will be as invaluable as yours have been to me.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

ibelee, glad you could benefit. That's just the way it's always been. Some want to keep information as some kind of "trade secret", others want to be completely open and say "I would charge this much and so should you". Most fit somewhere in between. As you found out, the best thing is to consider everything and everybody's advise, discard that which is totally useless, then come to your own conclusion. Bottom line - the only person you really have to please is yourself.


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## ibelee (Dec 7, 2004)

*Maine? That's gotta be tuff!*



Mick said:


> ibelee, glad you could benefit. That's just the way it's always been. Some want to keep information as some kind of "trade secret", others want to be completely open and say "I would charge this much and so should you". Most fit somewhere in between. As you found out, the best thing is to consider everything and everybody's advise, discard that which is totally useless, then come to your own conclusion. Bottom line - the only person you really have to please is yourself.


Maine!? That's gotta be tuff! Heard ya'all got a lot of snow. Maine, Michigan, Alaska, Canada, and some other places I've never been... you guys are the Pro's! 15" total for casted this year in Southern MD.(I feel embarrassed). Setting up seasonal contracts. 3 year contracts. Set price no matter how much it snows. No removal, push only, sidewalks and spreading extra. It says you are a "veteran". Any tips? I need to go go back and find the screen name of the gentleman who GAVE me the spreader that I have been using this year. He just GAVE it to me! Just as he said, it's not much, but it made me $650 last week. He also offered to let me come up and plow with him at his first snow so I could learn. This contact was made via this forum. I wish there were more like him, and when it is my time, I hope to give this spreader to another unwitting soul. Happy Plowing.


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## DJL (Oct 28, 2003)

If I'm coming off as a hard a$$ cause I don't want to give what I pay for a drive or whatever, than so be it. I don't think it is helping anyone to just say, this is what the price should be. Instead, I feel we should provide items that drive your price (i.e. expenses, profit margins, etc.). If we provide them with the knowledge of HOW to come up with a price instead of just providing a price, is this not better? After all, just about every situation or scenario will be slightly different.

Many of you think by providing prices and giving a range it will help them not be a lowballer. Well, look at it from the other way. Is it possible they are getting the price range to go underneath it? Maybe it is a slim chance, I don't know. Also, keep in mind this a site in witch "guests" can enter and view threads, just not post. Maybe I'm looking at it as the glass is half empty and you are looking at it is the glass is half full. 

As for market or going rate. I'm really curious where everyone comes up with these rates. I can NEVER get an answer. As far as I know there is no book, website, gov't site, or whatever that provides "going or market rates". This site is probably as close as you can get without performing an actual market survey. Even so, how accurate is someone from NJ telling someone from Alaska that "yep, sounds about right" sorry, just doesn't make sense.


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## ibelee (Dec 7, 2004)

*DJL - Doing the search*



DJL said:


> If I'm coming off as a hard a$$ cause I don't want to give what I pay for a drive or whatever, than so be it. I don't think it is helping anyone to just say, this is what the price should be. Instead, I feel we should provide items that drive your price (i.e. expenses, profit margins, etc.). If we provide them with the knowledge of HOW to come up with a price instead of just providing a price, is this not better? After all, just about every situation or scenario will be slightly different.
> 
> Many of you think by providing prices and giving a range it will help them not be a lowballer. Well, look at it from the other way. Is it possible they are getting the price range to go underneath it? Maybe it is a slim chance, I don't know. Also, keep in mind this a site in witch "guests" can enter and view threads, just not post. Maybe I'm looking at it as the glass is half empty and you are looking at it is the glass is half full.
> 
> As for market or going rate. I'm really curious where everyone comes up with these rates. I can NEVER get an answer. As far as I know there is no book, website, gov't site, or whatever that provides "going or market rates". This site is probably as close as you can get without performing an actual market survey. Even so, how accurate is someone from NJ telling someone from Alaska that "yep, sounds about right" sorry, just doesn't make sense.


DJL

I have no problem with what you have posted. I appreciate your concern for your pricing. I did a search when I was trying to figure out what to charge. It was not what you charged for a particular lot or drive, but rather the formulas that others such as yourself derived this from. Again, thank you and all others who have helped me on my way. Happy plowing.


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## cidhandyman (Dec 27, 2004)

*Thanks Glen for your input!!!*

I built some heavy duty ramps for my truck. I can engage the forward drive and walk it up into the bed. My 22 inch walk behind starts on the first pull also, but I can relate to the extreme cold issue. This could be a problem, and plugging in for the electric start wont be an option unless I run an inverter from the truck, when I arrive on site. I have tried to figure out a good price point but based on other research and what you told me, its a hard sell. If I make the price affordable enough to get the customer to say yes, I lose my shirt and my shoes. If I charge enough to break even I still lose out. Looks like I will stick with small apartment complexes and disabled entrance ramps for now. Residential work doesnt have the potential for a good return at the moment. I can charge a more favorable rate and still make up for some losses due to increased volume. Plus there are always tenants who need to get out right away and will pay for service rather than wait for the maintenance dept to get around to it. I appreciate the feedback Glen, many thanks.

Julian


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## NJ Plowman (Dec 10, 2003)

wfd44 said:


> Pretty impressive. Landstroker got himself banned in less than 2 weeks on the site.


Hey wfd44,

I guess his motto was "If you can't be well liked, be well hated!" :angry:


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## NEWENGLAND (Oct 16, 2003)

*Bidding on Jobs*

I had a request for a bid on a privite road developmant in Sept with cul du sac fire pond access road and 4 new houses each with a small 100 ft driveway.

I bid $500 for the job each storm.

Now lets see the new Dodge 2500 4X4 Heavy Duty RAM with Turbo Cummins Diesil costs $45,000 finiance charges, plus tax & Registration and Insurance

and the new 8 ft Boss Plow cost $3,600 plus tax and billing and advertising

the maintaince on oil changes and the Deisil fuel at $1.29 per gal

I fiqure I just may break even. It was not far from my other accounts that I am comparable on with prices. Some higher some lower.

The association owners call and tell me they have some guy that will do it for $150 per storm????? HuH I cant fill the fuel tank for that kind of money?

I told them to go for the other guy and I would rebid them in Jan/Feb when the fuel prices are even higher.

I have started running Biodiesil and picked up 2 MPG even though it is .20 a gal more. I think its worth it. Anyone else using it?

Every body and his Dog has a plow on their pickup truck in Maine and Most of the jobs I see done by a lot of huys are pretty ****** workmanship.

I run another seasonal business in the summer and get the same LOWBALL competitors who usually stay around about one season. They say they dont have expences like Mortgages/Loans/Insurance and Maintaince to worry about and can really cut prices.

On the average from what I have read on a lot of plow sites that a standard should be between $125 to $150 per hour for a pickup truck owner operator and upwards from there for bigger equip.

Now the Kats out of the Bag.

What do you guys think?

PS: If your trucks broken down and you need a subcontractor or get a big job like a shopping Mall give me a E mail

Capt Walt
[email protected]
(207) 831-6311


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Where are you getting diesel for $1.29/gal?


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## NEWENGLAND (Oct 16, 2003)

*Diesil*

Most of the stations Irving/Dead River etc. go around that price in Saco/Biddeford/Portland area.

The B 20 Biodiesil is $159 per Gallon but if you buy a few hundred gallons at a time I could talk witht the owner about getting a discount for you.

Where are you and what are you paying? I need to get an ext 75 /100 gal Alum tank for the back of the truck. I would like the type with the tool box built on for the Off Road Diesil for the boats.

Capt Walt
(207) 831-6311


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

I read your reply and thought I must have mistaken what I paid so I went and got the receipt. I just filled up today. Diesel UNLD #2 - $1.749

And here I thought that was a lot better than the $2.33 I was paying a month or so ago.

The local store I use is usually a couple of cents higher than J&S in Augusta, but its not enough to be worth the drive. Believe it or not, in Augusta the stations on the west side of the river are usually two cents cheaper than the east side.


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## NEWENGLAND (Oct 16, 2003)

*Gas or Diesil?*

Our 97 Octane Gasoline down here is about $179. a gal but he Diesil is a hell of a lot more. Dont know why?

I picked up Diesil out in Okkalhaona city at .97 a gal and in Acron Ohio at .76 a gal.

It does not make any sents except for taxes????

I f I can take on 200 Gal at a pop I get 24 MPG without plow running 85/90 on turbocharger at 2800 RPM and can get super mileage in 6th gear overdrive

When I put on the plow and kick it into 4X4 it goes down to 17-18 MPG

1st clutch reverse clutch ch 1 st clutch reverse clutch etc.etc. etc.

Dear Sirs:

I would like to offer a Trade of my Snow Plowing Services in exchange for credit good for purchases your companies products you sell on an equal Value basis.

This will allow both of us to take advantage of services /products without affecting our cash flow.

I could plow your stores/business or home in Saco, OLD ORCHARD BEACH Scarborough or
& Biddeford, Maine

I need a few of the following services: If you can provide them or are a tradesman.
1)	Excavation, Concrete Forms & foundation
2)	Crushed Stone/Stone dust
3)	Hot Top Paving
4)	Finish Carpenter to install windows. Framing Carpenters to Build Screen Porch, & Roofers
5)	Finish woodworker to Build a couple of projects in your shop.
6)	Welding: Alum & Stainless
7)	Firewood
8)	Gasoline/Diesel Fuel & Home Heating Oil.
9)	Painting a pickup truck
10) T shirt/Sweat Shirt Ball Cap Silk Screen Printing

Please call me if you are interested.

Capt Walt Gibson
NEW ENGLAND CHARTERS LLC
P.O. Box 1585
Saco, Maine 04072
(207) 831-6311


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## SGLC (Jan 7, 2005)

*Haha*

This thread seems to go every which way but I'll also go back to the beginning. Oh, I am new to the site, been reading for a while but decided to register and post.

I don't see problems with ppl helping out the new guy. I was a new guy once upon a time and stuck to it with little help on pricing and such. Built everything up on hard work and good customer service.

I started doing property maintance when I was 17 and I'm now 27 and still at it. I charged enough in the end to make sure I had money left for myself. Was I a low baller, maybe but I had a lot lower expenses. Now I have higher expenses and my rates are higher. I also have a laundromat that can offset some of the costs as we also have a small plaza to go along with the Laundromat....my thoughts back in the day was why pay someone to do what I can do and I went from there. Weekend warrior to fulltime....so don't hate on the weekend guys.

Mind you, I do hate on the fly by night guys. One year they low bid everyone, ruin the market and the next they are out of business cause they made no money...big problem in my area.

In the end....if someone asks how much should they charge, charge enough so u have money for your pocket at the end of the day lol.


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