# McDonalds Pics



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

I went out salting this morning at about 4:30am. Got done about 6:45am and drove to McDonalds near my home to get a coffee. As I pulled in the parking lot I saw one of their employees shoveling the walk near the building and around the drive through lanes. He shoveled a path from the walk to the drive through lane and skipped the handi-cap stalls. As I put my cream and sugar in my coffee inside, he walks in and takes his coat off because he is finished. These pictures I took as I was driving out.

These were taken at 7:05am. My opinion is that he should have shoveled the handi-cap stalls while he was out there. Also no private company or individual had been to this site to salt or plow anything. The snow we had was light & spotty and the temps were near 32 F so I wouldn't expect any plowing, but salting should have been done. These McDonalds restaurants are cash cows, why can't they pay for good service? Or at least have the employees do a better job salting and shoveling. By 7:00am this McDonalds has already had quite a few customers.


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## jbutch83 (Sep 30, 2002)

Must be nationwide thing. We have over 10 Mcdonalds in our county, and they are all owned by the same person. They are not plowed till there is at least 2 inches on the ground, no salt, and not a decent job is done either. They have always been like this for the past 10 years. You should see how they do the lawncare. Female most of the times, brings her dog with her, and pulls the push mower out of the back of the minivan. Usually is cut about every 2 weeks or so as well, and they do irrigation there so imagine the growth.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Not only is there snow in that pic, but I spy a few piles from past snows. Must be nice. 40's and rain here today, supposed to be close to 60 by Thursday.

On topic, it amazes me the places that skimp on salting services. With the amount of traffic through that place you would think they could afford a decent snow contractor. We do a few arbys and they want wet lots as often as possible.


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

Shouldn't have said where you plowed bossman the mad lowballer himself will be out trying to steal your work!


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

MahonLawnCare;1453821 said:


> Shouldn't have said where you plowed bossman the mad lowballer himself will be out trying to steal your work!


:laughing: I am sure I would get it back after the first snowfall. What do you think buddy?? :laughing:


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

He's a superstar of snow and ice!


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

Ok I'm done hi-jacking your thread. Sorry...The McDonalds up here are usually wet 24/7. Must be cheap owners


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## dodge2500 (Aug 20, 2009)

jbutch83;1453801 said:


> Must be nationwide thing. We have over 10 Mcdonalds in our county, and they are all owned by the same person. They are not plowed till there is at least 2 inches on the ground, no salt, and not a decent job is done either. They have always been like this for the past 10 years. You should see how they do the lawncare. Female most of the times, brings her dog with her, and pulls the push mower out of the back of the minivan. Usually is cut about every 2 weeks or so as well, and they do irrigation there so imagine the growth.


Hey there Butcher, the ones in Porter county always get done and salted. I believe they are owned by the same people as the LaPorte county ones. My grandfather is friends with the guy that owns them all. I don't beleive he makes the decisions but is the money behind them.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

First of all if I was handicap I wouldn't even park there,looks like the back of the building.That lot looks like all the others in my area after a dusting.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

grandview;1453879 said:


> First of all if I was handicap I wouldn't even park there,looks like the back of the building.That lot looks like all the others in my area after a dusting.


The side door is just out of camera shot and the sidewalk wheelchair access is right there! If they had applied salt at 5:00am it would have been wet pavement by 6:00am. I wasn't so concerned with the entire lot as I was the handi-cap stalls that would have taken less than 5 min to shovel by hand.


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## StratfordPusher (Dec 20, 2006)

*Same here in Ontario*

Same problem here in Stratford Ontario, I know the guy that services 2 of them and they won't pay to him to service properly. These are disgusting to look at and snow and ice packed lots all winter long.

Staff has to maintain the walks....they are passable most the time.

No quality and liability minded company in town will bid them because of their low standards, high traffic and public risk of slips and falls.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

StratfordPusher;1453960 said:


> Same problem here in Stratford Ontario, I know the guy that services 2 of them and they won't pay to him to service properly. These are disgusting to look at and snow and ice packed lots all winter long.
> 
> Staff has to maintain the walks....they are passable most the time.
> 
> No quality and liability minded company in town will bid them because of their low standards, high traffic and public risk of slips and falls.


That's kind of what i was thinking, especially the liability part. I know they must be tough to service because of the constant heavy traffic, but I would think the funding is available.


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## treeman06 (Sep 26, 2006)

Snow here was melted pretty much by 8:00am, but I still saw guys throwing salt down onto wet pavement. That's why companies skimp on the salt to a certain extent because of the over salting that occurs. The McDonalds around this area are also very cheap though.


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## Turf Commando (Dec 16, 2007)

I don't see an issue with the lot, that's actually better then most restaurants.....


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

We service 5 of them in our area all under 1 owner. Salt only after plow. No seprate saltings. We tell them its more dangerous when theres a dusting of snow than 4 inches of snow. Nobodys slips in a cupple inches of snow people slip when theres that glaze of snow/ice. Whatever at least they pay good.


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## FourDiamond (Nov 23, 2011)

The two McDonald's near here are owned by the same owner. He plows and salts both lots himself. Does a very nice job too. But on the original pics, if I owned that lot I'd be ashamed.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Turf Commando;1454011 said:


> I don't see an issue with the lot, that's actually better then most restaurants.....


There is no doubt the entire lot should have been salted before opening time. The real issue I had was the employee could have shoveled the handi-cap stalls and tossed out some salt. The only clear pavement at 7:00am was a one lane circle around the building that had been driven on. None of the outer stalls were clear. It's a small lot and could be salted by hand in 15 min. Really, the only cost for them to do it themselves would be 2x40# bags of salt. I don't fault any snow contractor, I'm sure they only come when certain conditions are present. I do think the level of service should be higher for McDonalds, most of them are making plenty of money.

Yes the snow would have melted by 9:00am provided it was in a sunny area of the lot, but many customers show up well before that time.


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## deere615 (Jun 1, 2007)

Thats probably one of the cleanest I have seen. Around here they are usually not touched until 2" and usually never salted. I had one 2 years ago and kept it plowed every half inch, never once got salt but I did keep the lot pretty clean needles to say I no longer do them


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## AMS77 (Aug 20, 2011)

Same here none of the fast food restaurants keep their lots clean usually a total mess. I now people have complained to Mcdonalds corporate about the lot at the one we have in town and still nothing has ever been done.


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## Turf Commando (Dec 16, 2007)

As the economy worsens this scenerio will not change places don't care if you walk in snow/ice. Their a business out to make buck not pay it out...!


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

You should have slipped and fallen and you would never need this business to make income. 

If I were in your shoes, I would have offered them a onetime contract and provided services with payment up front.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

I bid 4 mcdonalds last year around me. I asked for a bid spec sheet from the managers. They all looked at me like I had 3 heads. I asked how they wanted it bid...per push, per inch, seasonal etc....they said they didn't know or whatever is cheapest. They told me they didn't want salt every time. I bid it per inch and salt at my discretion. I bid it pretty fairly I thought......never to be heard from again..lol. Skimping on salt is penny wise and pound foolish if you ask me.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

The other thing about salting a very high traffic lot like that is you don't have to use as much as a low traffic lot


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## Rat_Power_78 (Sep 16, 2008)

In my town, the McDonalds handles their walks the same way. The employees do all the walks, including the city sidewalks. They also do their own mowing in the summer. Also, I have not seem any salt put down in their lot unless someone drops some fries.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Rat_Power_78;1454466 said:


> In my town, the McDonalds handles their walks the same way. The employees do all the walks, including the city sidewalks. They also do their own mowing in the summer. Also, I have not seem any salt put down in their lot unless someone drops some fries.


:laughing: Good one!

So let me ask everyone this: How do they get away with this level of service? Are they so big that slip and fall claims are a minor nuisance? Or, is McDonalds so popular, that it doesn't matter the conditions of the parking lot or the appearance of the grounds, the food is a must have in our society today?


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

WIPensFan;1454516 said:


> :laughing: Good one!
> 
> So let me ask everyone this: How do they get away with this level of service? Are they so big that slip and fall claims are a minor nuisance? Or, is McDonalds so popular, that it doesn't matter the conditions of the parking lot or the appearance of the grounds, the food is a must have in our society today?


Have you seen some of the people going in? If they slip and fall they will just bounce


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

The pictures look like the did an excellent job. In my area they don't plow them into around 4". At the end of last year you could not find the curbs due to the snow pack down made the lot level with the curbs and sidewalks.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1454527 said:


> Have you seen some of the people going in? If they slip and fall they will just bounce


:laughing: :laughing: well excuse me while I clean my coffee off of my computer now!


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## born2farm (Dec 24, 2007)

We plow the McDonalds in our area and it is terrible trying to get them to pay for service. We would not be doing them if they were not in the middle of a couple other lots they already to. They wanted a 2inch trigger with no salt. Employees handle the walks and put some salt down on the walks. With that being said I definitely OVER SERVICE them. Needless to say they did not like there first bill. I have a big liability clause for them since they request no salt. The drive through does seem to stay pretty wet though with all of the vehicle traffic.

I doubt we will get the contract back next year.


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## Rat_Power_78 (Sep 16, 2008)

Level of service seems to be relative to an individuals perspective. From the view of a snow & ice contractor, salt is a necessity both to properly and efficiently perform the job and for the safety of the public. The management of a commercial property may see it only as an added, unneccesary cost. This could be do to a previous contractor abusing any freedom to salt at the contractors disgression (happens a lot here) or simply because they dont understand the impertance of such a service. Of course, they could be just plain old tightwads. Locally, very few commercial properties want to pay for salt. As a result, very few lots are kept "clean and wet." Some of those that do salt border on excess or abuse in certain locations where they feel they can get away with it.


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## jbutch83 (Sep 30, 2002)

dodge2500;1453874 said:


> Hey there Butcher, the ones in Porter county always get done and salted. I believe they are owned by the same people as the LaPorte county ones. My grandfather is friends with the guy that owns them all. I don't beleive he makes the decisions but is the money behind them.


Lubezniks own all of the ones in LaPorte County, not sure on Porter. The ones in LaPorte are only done in the early morning hours, and thats the only time during the day they are done. Tree Man does the ones in town, no salt, and only early in the morning. Had another contractor bid them last year, they didn't want any salt and they stayed with Tree Man. They have to be one of worst plowed places in LaPorte. I know the managers have asked other plow companies to make some pushes through the lot in the past and they want to pay them with food! Can't believe that they are willing to skimp on a service like that and not worry about getting sued.

Hope your winter has been going ok, I know with the lack of snow it's been rather slow!


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

They own the business right? - the McD's people that is. 

Who the heck is anyone to tell them their business. We as professionals can make suggestions but you also have to be professional in minding your own business as to how they want to run theirs.

Go eat somewhere else if you don't like the lot or feel unsafe.

If you know or have seen in the past that a business gets serviced every 2" and no salt, why bother bidding at 1" with salt? Maybe as an alternative but not your only price.

The McD's I eat at every day looks way worse than that picture - For about the first year I thought man that looks like crap, look at my Wendy's down the street, black / wet all day every day. For the last 3 or 4 years, no salt at Wendy's per their request, the lot doesn't look as bad as McD's but who cares - my customer is happy with the end product, they are happy with the end cost. McD's must be happy also - they've had the same guy for as long as I can remember servicing their lot.

If McD's was unhappy, all they had to do was look across the street at a gas station that's black and wet all the time and get them to service their lot, or, the owner could simply ask us, we do his driveway and development.

The bottom line is, it's THEIR business as to what level of service they receive, it's our business to cover ourselves with contractual language for customers that don't want salt or want salt on call.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

framer1901;1457613 said:


> They own the business right? - the McD's people that is.
> 
> Who the heck is anyone to tell them their business. We as professionals can make suggestions but you also have to be professional in minding your own business as to how they want to run theirs.
> 
> ...


Do you also want to leave it up to them to pay people whatever they want, or should we keep a minimum wage? Can they dump their used fryer oil down the sewer or out in the street, or should it have to be collected properly? Could they have the monopoly game and have no winning pieces or should they have to have winners? Can they lie about the fat, caloric and ingredient content of their food? No, there are people with allergies and health concerns that rely on accurate information being reported. There are lots of rules and regulations for businesses to follow, just because it's THEIR business, doesn't mean it should effect public safty.

Heck, every year the fire department comes to my shop to make sure the fire exit signs and lights as well as fire extinguishers are in proper working order. I don't have 2,000 people coming in and out of my shop on a daily basis, but I can't tell them, "Hey it's my business, I'll do what I want, and I don't see fire safty as a pressing issue"


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

That is apples to oranges.

I'm sure there is something in the Americans with Disabilities act that certain business' have to maintain access, ie handicap ramps, parking space dimensions, and I whole heartadly support that.

Cities and towns have regulations requiring you to maintain the public sidewalk on your property - support that too.

You are going to tell me that a dusting of snow in two parking spots is wrong and I should pay to maintain them better than what you show me in that picture? This isn't Joey Jr disposing of motor oil down the city sewar.

So, maybe we should have Federal, State and local regulations on what a parking lot condition should be when it comes to snow, require them to salt??

Look at your picture again - there is absolutely no obstruction for someone in a wheelchair getting from that parking spot to the access ramp - none.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

framer1901;1459007 said:


> That is apples to oranges.
> 
> I'm sure there is something in the Americans with Disabilities act that certain business' have to maintain access, ie handicap ramps, parking space dimensions, and I whole heartadly support that.
> 
> ...


There are handi-caps that don't require a wheelchair, could have to use a walker, could be some other disability that effects balance or gait. Whatever the case, a thin layer of ice and snow creates a treacherous walking surface.

My main point was the spaces SHOULD have been cleared and salted or sanded, not that they HAVE to. Money should not be a obsticle to maintaining a safe parking lot and walkways for any McDonalds.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

WIPensFan;1459035 said:


> My main point was the spaces SHOULD have been cleared and salted or sanded, not that they HAVE to. Money should not be a obsticle to maintaining a safe parking lot and walkways for any McDonalds.


Serious? With the amount of grease they have on their floors you think this is a concern?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

WIPensFan;1457694 said:


> Do you also want to leave it up to them to pay people whatever they want?


Yes. ......................


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

I could be mistaken, but looking back at my snow log from that night, the pavement temps never got below freezing here for that event. That little bit of snow was probably gone as soon as the sun hit it. Not looking to stand up for how cheap McD's is (we plow a few of them for the same co. and they rarely EVER take salt) but throwing slat down at 6:45 may have only aided in clearing those areas 45 mins faster than Mother Nature on that day............


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

dfd9;1459036 said:


> Serious? With the amount of grease they have on their floors you think this is a concern?


They're always mopping the floor or sweeping inside, They need to transfer some of that diligence to the outside.



cretebaby;1459041 said:


> Yes. ......................


God I hate to ask.....WHY?



jomama45;1459046 said:


> I could be mistaken, but looking back at my snow log from that night, the pavement temps never got below freezing here for that event. That little bit of snow was probably gone as soon as the sun hit it. Not looking to stand up for how cheap McD's is (we plow a few of them for the same co. and they rarely EVER take salt) but throwing slat down at 6:45 may have only aided in clearing those areas 45 mins faster than Mother Nature on that day............


Too many customers before that happens. Playland had a couple moms with kids in it, elderly group of gentleman shooting the sh!t over breakfast, me, and 2 people I saw come in behind me. That's in 5 min I was there. As you can see it's light out and it's not melted.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

WIPensFan;1459057 said:


> God I hate to ask.....WHY?


Why not?


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

WIPensFan;1459057 said:


> As you can see it's light out and it's not melted.


The sun's still low enough that it's not hitting the asphalt...........

If you think this is bad, take a closer look at the McD's when we get a real snow & it drops below freezing quickly the next morning before daybreak. If this melting trace bothers you, the rutted up mess that holds on some of these lots for days will have you depressed......


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

I have learned over the years not to waste my time or energy thinking about what others do. In all my years plowing I have just let my own work speak for itself and let the owners of companies worry about their own snow removal problems. I have stayed busy during winter with this thinking and that is all I care about in the end.

We do a handful of Micky-D's lots and while we try to keep them at wet pavement ,but,sometimes the wind just blows right and dusts things up. Sometimes salt can aid in snow sticking to a lot rather than just having it blow over as well. 

Whomever is paying that plow bill has end of year bonus in mind I am sure and thinks he knows what is best for the store he is running. Why argue? If he has not had a claim against the store the practice will stay the same until someone new comes in or they get a handicapped claim for slip/fall.

These pics are really not that bad compared to some I have seen. The Wendy's around here 4 years ago decided to stop using salt as a cost saving measure as well. In 4x4 with studded snow tires I wouldn't enter the lot sometimes now in the winter the snow-pack and ice is so built up it amazes me, but, it is the service that district manager wants to pay for now. I have gone into store lots with handicapped spots being used as the place to pile the snow. 

I have also seen small business's who do no plowing unless snow is over a foot. Those type of places are fine for the low-ballers and weekend plow-boy. I will stick to commercial only lots who want top notch service.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Bossman 92;1453818 said:


> On topic, it amazes me the places that skimp on salting services. With the amount of traffic through that place you would think they could afford a decent snow contractor.


Well said brother!


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

REAPER;1459598 said:


> I have learned over the years not to waste my time or energy thinking about what others do. In all my years plowing I have just let my own work speak for itself and let the owners of companies worry about their own snow removal problems. I have stayed busy during winter with this thinking and that is all I care about in the end.
> 
> We do a handful of Micky-D's lots and while we try to keep them at wet pavement ,but,sometimes the wind just blows right and dusts things up. Sometimes salt can aid in snow sticking to a lot rather than just having it blow over as well.
> 
> ...


Bravo!!!!!!


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

I just remembered an absolutely horrible parking lot I was in several years back. It was a restaurant\gas station combo. I kid you not, I had to bend over to lift the nozzle out of the gas pump. 

Thinking about this thread, I am now wondering why somebody didn't mandate that this lot was plowed and salted to bare pavement. Just think of who may have stopped at this place and needed to be able to walk around. 

What a place for gov't intervention if there was one. And the owners of the place should have been strung up.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Like Reaper said, exactly.

Speaking of salt, anyone need some? Got about 40ton left and it ain't looking good.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

local dunkin donuts near my house and shop and anywhere in between are never plowed..

We took two two years ago, 09/10 and plowed/salted until first week of February... they never paid... the company we had taken them from subbed, said to cancel the contract.. they never got paid and we're still fighting with the company to finally pay us two years later. $5,000 worth about. 

Most never are plowed, never are salted, lucky if plowed once after at least 8" or more. Im sure theres slip and falls galore and their insurance must be a fortune.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Ramairfreak98ss;1465943 said:


> local dunkin donuts near my house and shop and anywhere in between are never plowed..
> 
> We took two two years ago, 09/10 and plowed/salted until first week of February... they never paid... the company we had taken them from subbed, said to cancel the contract.. they never got paid and we're still fighting with the company to finally pay us two years later. $5,000 worth about.
> 
> Most never are plowed, never are salted, lucky if plowed once after at least 8" or more. Im sure theres slip and falls galore and their insurance must be a fortune.


Hope you get paid. Another large franchise skimping on service.


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