# Engines - 6000 vs 8100 ?



## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

Hey guys, in the next few weeks im getting a 2500hd. I will be plowing, salting, and towing a landscape trailer. Its only $800 for the 8100 engine. What do you guys think I should get? I was going to get a diesel, but I figured I'll get a gasser this time, and later down the road I'll get a diesel. So... I rather have the 8100, but... Is it nessary? And how much more gas does the 8100 guzzle compared to the 6000?

Thanks guys!


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## ksland (Nov 27, 2002)

The 6.0 is plenty capable. For all around use I think that would be my choice.

Unfortunatly, GM has the piston slap problem with these engines, not sure if the 8.1 does too. I had the 6.0L, it ticks first 30 seconds of it running then goes away. I got rid of it at 26,000 miles. It started ticking 2 weeks into owning it. GM won't do anything about it except offer you a 100,000 miles warranty on the engine itself.


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

ksland said:


> The 6.0 is plenty capable. For all around use I think that would be my choice.
> 
> Unfortunatly, GM has the piston slap problem with these engines, not sure if the 8.1 does too. I had the 6.0L, it ticks first 30 seconds of it running then goes away. I got rid of it at 26,000 miles. It started ticking 2 weeks into owning it. GM won't do anything about it except offer you a 100,000 miles warranty on the engine itself.


Ksland Gm has fixed that problem. The 2004 and up doesn't have that piston slap problem is my understanding. My 2001 has the noise but as you said GM put a 100,000 mile warranty on that engine. Mark I have the 6.0 in my truck and it has plenty of power, pulled a 30 ft house trailer all over upper Michigan this pass summer ran 70-75 mph with no problems. You will like the 6.0 if you get it, plenty of power.

Regards Mike


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

Premier,

It's a lot more than $800 for the 8.1 option!

First of all it's $950 for the 8.1.

You forgot to add in the required Allison transmission which is $1200.

As long as your going to go with an 8' bed, you should seriously consider the 3500 SRW. The extra rear leafs and 265 tires is a nice package for actually less money than a 2500HD.

Personally, I'd suggest you go with the 6.0

Piston slap is no longer an issue.


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

Thanks guys. The 6.0 should do it then. Also, thanks for informing me TLS, I was'nt aware that you needed the allison with the 8.1. Thanks again!


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## JMR (Feb 24, 2003)

I would also say get the 6.0. I have a number of friends with the 8.1's they say their MPG sucks. 9-11 mpg and worse when towing, interstate or around town makes no difference. The 6.0 should get much better mpg.


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## BigRedBarn (Jan 4, 2003)

Just another 2¢ worth...

I think previous threads have detailed the extra weight of the 8100. I'm guessing the Allison that's manditory with the 8100 (or Duramax) is partly to blame for some of the extra weight. Add to that a plow and such, and that extra weight reduces the truck's load capabilities pretty far.

On the other hand, my philosophy has always been... when you're buying a vehicle, BUY THE BIGGEST FRIGGIN' ENGINE THAT THEY OFFER. Hey, you only live once. Plus too and also, bragging rights associated with an 8100 are something to consider (not that I would ever stoop so low to bragging about an engine, right?).

Those not very practical reasons for a businessman to consider when deciding how to equip a truck, but if it helps you give a few "ricer boys" a look at you taillights every so often (not to mention putting a weird "W...T...F???" look on their faces), then that might make it worth getting the 8100.

Anywho, good luck whatever you decide (as we hear a chant in the background: "big block... big block... big block... big block...).


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

LMAO, BigRedBarn. You have a point. I cant stand rice. But for 3 extra grand, I cant see it happening.


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## snow warrior (Feb 4, 2005)

Get the 8100 its worth every penny! 8.1W/ALLISON =1SWEET RIDE!!! MORE POWER THAN YOU ACTUALLY NEED.WHEN AND WHERE YOU NEED IT!WOULD'T TRADE MINE FOR A 6.0 FOR ANYTHING. 2 BUDDIES HAVE THEM.GAS MILEAGE IS BETTER W/6.0 BUT NOT MUCH just my .02


plus i love eating RICE!!!!!!!! YEAH


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## NJBuickRacer (Jan 20, 2005)

Both engines will get the job done, the 6.0 is based on the LS-series engines which powers the Corvette, '98 up Camaro/Firebirds and the new GTOs. My little 5.7 LS1 in my '01 Vette laid down 354 hp and 357 tq at the rear wheels with no internal engine mods, just a few bolt-ons and headers. The 6.0 heads have the same runners as LS6 heads(used in the Z06 Vettes from 01-04) with a slightly larger combustion chamber for lower compression. The coated pistons which were used from '02 up solved the piston slap problem.


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## Turfmower (Dec 20, 2003)

I have the Alison Tran on my Duramax If i was to buy a Gas i would get the 8.1 just to get the Alison Trans.


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## gcsupraman (Apr 28, 2004)

Turfmower said:


> I have the Alison Tran on my Duramax If i was to buy a Gas i would get the 8.1 just to get the Alison Trans.


Exactly what I was going to say - the Allison transmission is worth the extra money by itself.

I bought the 8.1 and I love it - much more power than the 6.0 that I test drove. I think it should be noted that I have a Honda Accord for daily driving so gas mileage was not a concern.

Good luck

-Greg Carnrick


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## DJL (Oct 28, 2003)

My brother has a '02 GMC crew cab short box with the 6L gas and locking rear with 4.10 differential. With tonneau cover on he gets ~12-13MPG highway with cruise. Pulling our dual axle 20' enclosed trailer loaded with ~5k#'s he gets around ~10MPG some highway and some stop and go traffic.

I have an '04 Chevy ext. cab short box with 8L gas, Allison, locking rear, 4.10 differential. With tonneau cover on I can get anywhere from 9-10 MPG highway using the cruise. Best was 11MPG...that was only once though going across state. Pulling the same trailer I get about 8MPG.

We also have a 12k# GVWR dump trailer. Technically speaking, his 6.0 cannot (well--should not) transport the trailer fully loaded, with my 8L I can. Anyway, we are able to get 10 yards mulch in this trailer and we've had equipment as large as a Kubota L35 on the trailer. It is night and day pulling the dump trailer when fully loaded. Don't get me wrong the 6L did fine...its just the 8L really showed up when we had to deliver mulch up a steep hill with a stone drive and does a little better getting up to speed on the highways.

As far as plowing snow its hard to compare. He has a 8' western and I have a 7.5'. He has driven my truck and he agrees with me that the constant shifting feels much smoother in my truck than it does in his. Also, his trans temp will run a little on the warmer side. I'm by no means a truck guru---far from it---but I figured I'd chime in having the two trucks do almost identical things. Hope it helps some.


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## grassmanvt (May 27, 2004)

I don't think you will be dissapointed either way. I have a 6.0 and it's pushed or pulled anything I asked it to. Haven't found a speed limit I couldn't brake(even with about 13 0r 14 klb in tow with a sander in the back)Although, that being said, I too believe that if the 6.0 is enough than more would be better.The only drawback I hear about upgraing to the allison is that it is slower in reverse.As far as the cold start ticking. I have had a few half tons with the 5.3 that have had that noise. Sounds like a duramax at cold start but after many hard abusive miles no problems. I have never heard of anyone having a problem with these engines, the noise just scares people I guess. Probably some of the best engines g.m. has offered.Oh yeah about the ricer thing, you wouldn't believe the looks you get when you pull out and blow one away with a dump truck or when someone says hey, bet you can't turn those duallys,.... what was this thread about again?


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## ratlover (May 5, 2003)

Most guys comment on the 8.1 getting about the same millage as 6.0's. Probably dont need the added power but more is better plus you get the allison. Is it worth the added $$$? Well a 6.0 would do what you need it to do fine I bet.....comes down to a want thing I think. The 4l80e is a pretty good trans although it isnt as good as an allison.


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## vipereng2 (Mar 19, 2005)

*mpg*



JMR said:


> I would also say get the 6.0. I have a number of friends with the 8.1's they say their MPG sucks. 9-11 mpg and worse when towing, interstate or around town makes no difference. The 6.0 should get much better mpg.


 i just got a 2005 chevy silverado 2500HD 6.0 i have 200 miles on it and it is getting 10 mpg now hope when the eng is broken in it will go up


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

vipereng2 said:


> i just got a 2005 chevy silverado 2500HD 6.0 i have 200 miles on it and it is getting 10 mpg now hope when the eng is broken in it will go up


 I don't even check the mpg on my 6.0. Just fill it up when it's empty. payup I do have to say though when I go to our house in Northern Michigan its not real bad mpg on the xway. It's a great engine for pushing or hauling IMOP.

Regards Mike


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

I have a regular cab 2004 2500HD with the 6.0. Gas mileage average arond 11.5 to 12. As far as blowing somebodies doors off with either the 6.0 or the 8.1 I dont think your going to have much luck. Neither one was built for quickness and the truck is far to heavy to do any thing to nifty. Towing yes ,racing NO.Go with the 6.0 and save the three grand for your fuel bill this summer.You will need it.


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

I hate to bust them on you guys but... I'm averaging 30% highway and averaging 21.8 MPG with the Duramax.  It only has 420 miles on it, so I'm going easy on it. I'm shocked! They all say they get better when broken in. I'm learning about all the crap that goes with them... Fuel filters , priming, additives etc. I figure with the millage gains we pay for it with a the aggravation.... Nothing is free!!!!


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

I put a K and N air filter in my diesel and use diesel conditioner and I was getting 27-32 on the highway.


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## bugthug (Oct 13, 2004)

I have a 03 with a 6.0 and I get 10 with it so I am gonna drive my 98 that has a 454 that gets 13 to 15 around town. my next new truck wont be a 6.0


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

what do you guys think of a 8100 and an manual trans? I know plowing would suck with a manual, but im young and can deal with it.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

PremierLand said:


> what do you guys think of a 8100 and an manual trans?


WHY???

Stick shifts will hurt resale if/when that time comes.

Get what you want and be done with it. Don't compromise anything. This is a big purchase. The 6.0 4L80E is perfectly competent for your intentions.


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

thats true. the 6.0 with the auto is 22k. and i'd only save a grand or so if i got the manual. your right. 6.0 auto is way to go... git r dun


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## vipereng2 (Mar 19, 2005)

Yaz said:


> I hate to bust them on you guys but... I'm averaging 30% highway and averaging 21.8 MPG with the Duramax.  It only has 420 miles on it, so I'm going easy on it. I'm shocked! They all say they get better when broken in. I'm learning about all the crap that goes with them... Fuel filters , priming, additives etc. I figure with the millage gains we pay for it with a the aggravation.... Nothing is free!!!!


 yea yea and what are you paying for the fuel mor then me


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## Robo (Jan 17, 2004)

I just bought an 04 reg cab 6.0 liter and wish I could afford a diesel. The fuel mileage is pathetic IMO. My truck gets about 10 mpg give or take. Westers garage says he has gotten people 16-18 with his tune so I may do that. I haven't driven my truck in 3 weeks refuse to drive it when gas is through the roof. Get the diesel if at all possible JMO


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

I would like the diesel but its 6-7k more and has like no rebates. so diesel is outta the question. plus I drive 30k miles a year so a diesel would be ideal, but I cant afford the extra 7k without rebates.


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## Robo (Jan 17, 2004)

I know what you mean I just priced one very similar to my truck. My truck was $21k and some change diesel $32k. OUCH!!

I have been snooping around a bit for a used truck that is a diesel. If the price was right I might jump on it. Probably would be a Ford or Dodge as the early Chevy duramaxs kind of suck I have heard.

If I could get the tune on my truck and get the mileage claimed I could be darn happy with my truck as that would be a huge increase. I don't know how the guy is going to improve it that much with just a tune but you never know I guess.


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

a ford f350 reg cab xl diesel is 29k with a plan (which I get) minus 2k in rebates so thats like 27k. but its a ford and I dont ever want another ford


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## William B. (Jul 22, 2004)

Robo said:


> I have been snooping around a bit for a used truck that is a diesel. If the price was right I might jump on it. Probably would be a Ford or Dodge as the early Chevy duramaxs kind of suck I have heard.
> 
> If I could get the tune on my truck and get the mileage claimed I could be darn happy with my truck as that would be a huge increase. I don't know how the guy is going to improve it that much with just a tune but you never know I guess.


GM has put a 7 year 200K mile warranty on the 01 and 02 Duramxs because of the injector failure that SOME have had.Check out www.dieselplace.com for some very good info on the DMax and the other GM Diesels. Not all of them have had problems. The Westers tune would be a good move from what I have read. They can be a little pricey, depending on your budget. I have heard about 400 for one plus you will be out of your truck for a couple days, unless you find another pcm to send to him. There is also Nelsons and PCMforless.com that do the same thing. I was looking at new HD's today. At the dealership they had the rebates listed on the window. For the DMax they had 1500 back, where as the gas where 3500 back.

William


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

i get family discounts for ford and dodge. and dodge has like 4-5k in rebates. I dont want a ford though. but a dodge would be nice, ive always liked em. but I still like the chevys more. however the dodges are cheaper


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

GUYS..............Last year I got the GM deal for a bro. over at PUTC.
He had a 01 2500 6.0 x-cab and beefed that the 6.0 didn't have
enough grunt to pull his 32 ft. camper. Heck, when I yank my 29
footer I don't expect to do 85 mph UP hill !

He got a 04 8.1 GMC crew. He posts no better than 11 mpg empty 
just cruising around ! Still NOT happy.......Sheesh !

ANYHOO........My bone stock 6.0 (with soft tonneau cover) got 17 
mpg hiway with the A/C on last week when I went to Jersey. 
Fun but I wanted to go to Jerres instead !!!!!!!!! :crying: :crying: 

I ordered a Hypertech 3 programmer for it and gonna set it for the
87 octane tune. Hope to increase mpgs and tweak the power bands.
Only $329 bucks !

Have the spec. sheet and it will increase hp and torque..............
and still be able to plow and tow and hopefully improve mpg.

I had one for my 97 350 and that mother screamed on the 93
octane mode but had to set it to 87 mode for towing or plowing.

Will post how it works out....................

Miss the DAZE of $1.00 a gallon gas......................geo


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

Let me know your results with the Hypertech. 

I want something, but swapping PCM's (Westers, etc) isn't desireable to me.


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## JRKRACE (Feb 5, 2004)

I was in the same dilemma with a tuner or tuned PCM. I went the tuned PCM route. 5 minute swap and I still kept my old PCM. If there is warranty work, the old PCM goes in. Plus I love the results. From what I heard, the tuners do not take out a lot of torque management, which is what is choking our trucks. The tuned PCMS can take most of it out as I have done and the truck runs strong w/o any problems.


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## Frozen001 (Oct 20, 2004)

JRKRACE,

did you notice any difference in the MPG after the PCM swap??


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

GUYS..............Some of the tuners that you have to swap your PCM
you have to return your old PCM...............

I like the Hypertech $329 or the Diablo $399 because you can tweek
the tune for 3 different gas grades and other parameters (spl) if 
wanted.
Even pull the tune out at will and use the scanner on almost all GM 
OBD 2 vehicles to pull and erase codes.

The burned PCM ya can't mess with it or you have to send it back to 
the programmer to be tweeked......Been following the Westers tune 
and other burned PCM sagas over at some GM truck sites.

Not to mention how choked up these new 6.0s are stock !

My prior Hypertech purchase made me decide on another one for my 04 !

Waiting for mail-man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............geo


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

George
Did it help your gas mileage? I would like to do something with the gas mileage if I can.

Thanks Mike


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

MIKE.........Still waiting for the mailman...

Was going CRAZY over which one to order........Flipped a coin and
the Hypertech at $329 shipped and NO sales tax won over the
Diablo at $399 out last Thurs. pm after a few beers !!!!! 
So ordered it online...............

Will post results............I just want the 87 tune for mpg. and still
be able to tow and plow.......................geo

I am SICK of my buds o4 5.3 x-cab 3:73s 4x4 blowing my 6.0s
doors off..........(chuckle)............................... 

BTW: GM family first sent me e-mail coupons to give out to
folks who want that GM in the driveway deal...............
They changed the program again for us Delphi folks.............


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## sixspeed (Oct 22, 2004)

*6000 v 8100*

Hey Sonjaab let us know if that Hypertech brings the 6.0 to life. A friend was thinking about buying a 6.0 van; we drove a van (and a 3/4 t suburban) and it and it was a slug compared to the 5.3. He had the hypertech (and a gibson cat back and K&N) on his 99 5.3 reg cab and that truck flew!!! Dunno about 3/4 ton mileage but when I drove the half ton averaged 14-15 around town (because it was a tire fryer that just wanted to have the go pedal mashed) and from 18 to 20 on the highway if I were nice to it...

Just curious cause some folks say that both torque management and LD (8600# and up) emissions are the reason that the 6.0's don't have the snap of the 5.3... Completely different torque/hp curve too...

As for the 8.1 it ain't no 454! Sad!


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## William B. (Jul 22, 2004)

I think one thing that we keep forgetting is that the new HD's wiegh alot more than the old body style 3/4tons. The 6.0 is not much bigger than the old 5.7. I don't think that 3 tenths of a liter is going to make a huge difference in speed or anything else like that.

I to would like to know how the hypertech works for you. 

William


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## JRKRACE (Feb 5, 2004)

Frozen....Yes the PCM swap did help with the mileage a little bit. I went from 11.2 MPG with the stock tune and stock tires to Almost 12 mpg with the 285 BFG's on the truck. Mind you this is 75% city and 25% highway driving. And yes, this is with the corrected speedo readings factored in.

Sonjaab...I was in the same dilemma as you...I bought my PCM outright and kept the stock PCM on the shelf. Cost me 375.00 for the total deal. From what I have learned, the programmers leave "tidbits" on the stock PCM. Not enough to worry about. I agree it's nice to be able to switch the settings but I just went for the "guts" and left it at that. Like I said, I use premium and have noticed a pretty big difference on how the truck performs. 

Whatever you guys do, just be sure that the torque management is dealt with. Yes the spark mapping will improve performance, but the removal of some or most of the torque management will make the most difference. My truck now "feels" like my wifes Yukon XL but is a little quicker. Truck just feels smoother and a little quieter from being opened up. The mid range is much more responsive now also.

Whatever you do take your time and let the truck adjust for a few miles. It gets better and better..... :bluebounc 

Now only if I can do the same to the A/C.....Hmmmm...


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## JRKRACE (Feb 5, 2004)

BTW.......www.ls1tech.com is a very good source for truck tuning...


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

SIX........! see lots of posts on the GM truck threads about the 6.0
being choked compared to the 5.3 AND the 4.8.............

One guy had dyno charts posted.....................WOW!

Will post results of my tuner......................

BTW: I searched a BUNCH of sites for prices on the Diablo,
Hypertech and others ! ( I LOVE the net !)...............
tsetruckstuff was the cheapest with FREE shipping and NO 
sales tax at $329 bucks...................geo


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## sixspeed (Oct 22, 2004)

*6000 vs 8100*

I never saw anything turn on with so little work like that 5.3 in his truck... I'm sure it's an eeeeasy 14 second ride...

I bought the hypertech for my Z28 and it seems to have lost some midrange torque but it picked it up on top, now I'm always bouncing it off the rev limiter.

If you can't do it with an LS1 then it's time for a big block!!! 
(one with 7 bolt valve covers and square port heads...)..


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## sixspeed (Oct 22, 2004)

*6100 vs 8100*

Hey Sonjaab - The April issue of GM High-tech performance had a fantastic article about PCM updates to handle torque management - a company named "HP Tuners" makes laptop software to reprogram it from "tow/haul to haul/[email protected]@ mode"! They were autocrossing a 2004 silverado...

I always heard that torque management was part of obd II emissions so it was locked down that's why hypertech and the like didn't have many options for auto trans tuning ... Maybe not, or maybe the fed changed their mind and it's now okay to play...


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

GUYS.....Both the Diablo and Hypertech programmers can change 
or shut off the torque mgt. in the 04/05 GMs according to the 
product lnfo. spec. sheets.

Not to worry tho ..I WILL try out the 93 octane tune and all the 
other "tricks" that the Hypertech provides to see how this b***h
will scream............................

Have my fun for a while................  

I WILL spend at least 1 sunday this summer at our local drag
strip (ESTA Safety Park in Cicero, NY) getting REAL numbers
with stock, 87 and 93 tune set ups !

The only local places with dynos near me charge $200 bucks 
plus for a session......................

So will have to rely on seat of the pants feel and mpg used 
for now !..........

I am wondering what one of these would do for my Northstar
in my Caddy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...............geo


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## Frozen001 (Oct 20, 2004)

Sonjaab...

Can't wait to hear your results... I have alwas felt that the truck was choked up, my '00 5.3 "felt" like it had more power, but I still will take my 6.0 gmc over a ford gasser...


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## sixspeed (Oct 22, 2004)

*6000 vs 8100*

Sonjaab - Wonder if something changed since 2000 when my bud bought the Power Programmer for his 5.3??? The one the bud used on his 5.3 wouldn't totally eliminate the sloppy 1-2 or 2-3 shift... A friend who is a GM mechanic said that it was still torque management...

Same guy's got an 04 Avalanche, he didn't get the PP yet...

Yeah, let us know if the mpg goes up... We KNOW the HP will go up!!!


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

SIX.............There ARE different set ups for certain years
and models according to the Hypertech spec. sheet and part
numbers are different for certain years. 
A 99-00 tuner has a different part# than my 04-05 part# .
01-02-03 all use different part #s also................

GM must be tweeking these motors thru the years..........geo

LOOKING FOR THE BIG BROWN TRUCK to roll up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! purplebou


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## sixspeed (Oct 22, 2004)

I know they're model and year specific (another OBD-II legal requirement since the emissions laws can never stay the same from year to year) but it's good news if you can eliminate that crappy torque management!!! 

Nothing better than hearing the sound of that brown truck outside! Or being at work and seeing "delivered" when you look up your tracking number!!!!


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

blade_masters said:


> I put a K and N air filter in my diesel and use diesel conditioner and I was getting 27-32 on the highway.


That's great! I have to look into that filter. Diesel conditioner? does that help with what? mileage? water in the fuel?? Is the Dodge a 6 cyl?


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## ratlover (May 5, 2003)

blade_masters said:


> I put a K and N air filter in my diesel and use diesel conditioner and I was getting 27-32 on the highway.


I just saw this. You are either running propane, your not talking about a 2500 dodge, you screwed up your calcs or you are lying through your teeth.


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

I just got my chevy 2500hd today with the 6.0. Im sure it'll be fine for me, its not like im towing 12 horses around the country  lol.


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

MARK................Finally............ congrats !!!!

Details..Details please.........


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

2001 2500HD reg cab, 6.0, auto, only 35k miles, 8ft curtis plow, strobes, its saweeeet. heres a pic of my lawn rig attached to it! I put it to work second day I got it! lol, Its awesome though. Today I had a bunch of grass + my trailer and there was NO SAG, now, in my ford, I'd hit a bump and bottom out, and that ford had a 3" lift with 33's! LOL. This truck is steller!


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

Mark
That is one great looking truck, make's me want one. Take good care of it.

Mike


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

Thanks mike, ya its sweet. When I had it loaded with grass, dirt, and rocks on saturday with my trailer attached, it didnt sag at all like my 1/2 did and it pulled GREAT, I didnt even know I had a load if it wasnt for the mirrors, lol. I just gotta try to keep it clean. I put the sides up for 2 reasons, one so that I can hold more, and two, so they (my guys) can put thegrass in the bed from the side and have potential to drop the bag and scrape the truck, now they have to go in from the tail gate...

btw, I cant belive how light the tail gate is, my old trucks tail gate was 5x heavier, its saweeeeet! :bluebounc :redbounce :yow!:


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