# Standard(ish) Ebling 16' Productivity Rates



## hansenslawncare (Feb 23, 2012)

ProTech has an awesome productivity chart...sadly it doesn't include an Ebling into their study.

With that said; what's a "standard(ish)" rate of producting for a 16' Ebling? 

2" light snow minimal hazards to plow around=???

4" light snow minimal hazards to plow around=???

Also, I'm considering 2 16' Eblings on trucks for a 10.5 acre lot with "a lot" of room to push/stack snow. I would use the trucks/eblings to pull snow to the end of the runs; and a small tractor/skid would stack and pile. 

Do-able with 2 trucks and a skid?

Also, the runs are about 400' long. Is that too long???

Thanks!


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

10.5 acres? 2 trucks and a skid? Are you planning for a 2' blizzard to be the norm?

Anyway, beyond that...what you asked for is production rates.

2-4 inch snows, lot with average difficulty, and competent operator ours do about 2 acres an hour. 2-4 inch snows with a very good operator, you can squeeze another .5 to 1 acre an hour out of one. Same goes for easy wide open lots.

Length of runs they can easily make will vary based on snow consistency. Wet heavy slop you'll slow way down. Powder and fluff you can fly.


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## hansenslawncare (Feb 23, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> 10.5 acres? 2 trucks and a skid? Are you planning for a 2' blizzard to be the norm?
> 
> Anyway, beyond that...what you asked for is production rates.
> 
> ...


Well one thing is it's a church...not a normal business with typical hours. Our snow falls are very regulated (if that even exists.) The last 5 years we have had 2 large snow falls. One 14" which took over 24 hours to accumulate. The other was 12" over an even longer period of time.

More than 70% of our snowfalls are 2-5"; with 5" being the lowest percentage of those snow falls. These are typically spread over 8-12 hour events to accumulate that snow. Like I said; fairly regulated for being snow.

We rarely have wet heavy snow; a lot of dry snow here in MN; cold temps usually equals dry/fluffy snow.

2' blizzard to be the norm????? What did you mean by that?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I mean it seems crazy to put 2 trucks and a skid steer on a lot that size.


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## hansenslawncare (Feb 23, 2012)

Ahhh! Understood. Well what would you do? One truck and a skid?


John_DeereGreen said:


> I mean it seems crazy to put 2 trucks and a skid steer on a lot that size.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

hansenslawncare said:


> Ahhh! Understood. Well what would you do? One truck and a skid?


If it were me I'd put a skid in there and let it do its thing, if you're already planning on having a skid there anyway. Unless you can use the skid somewhere else. With those snowfall amounts a skid steer should easily be able to handle it. We've got an S750 with 8-13 Plowmaxx covering about 20 acres with the help of a truck and Ebling.

If you'd rather put the skid somewhere else, a truck and Ebling with a decent operator should play with that lot.


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## hansenslawncare (Feb 23, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> If it were me I'd put a skid in there and let it do its thing, if you're already planning on having a skid there anyway. Unless you can use the skid somewhere else. With those snowfall amounts a skid steer should easily be able to handle it. We've got an S750 with 8-13 Plowmaxx covering about 20 acres with the help of a truck and Ebling.
> 
> If you'd rather put the skid somewhere else, a truck and Ebling with a decent operator should play with that lot.


With 400' runs?

Right now the company that plows it uses a loader and a 14' pusher. I thought that seemed like overkill???


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

hansenslawncare said:


> With 400' runs?
> 
> Right now the company that plows it uses a loader and a 14' pusher. I thought that seemed like overkill???


If that's what they have, and it works, then so be it. I'm sure it goes along pretty quick. The length of pushes to me doesn't make a huge difference unless it's 600+. Box fills up, then you're just cruising along till you get to your pile.

My S750 has runs that are much longer than 400' and it handles it just fine.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Here's the lots I'm talking about. Goes from the bottom of the screen where the white roof is, all the way to the corner of the building with the last yellow/orange circle on the roof.

Front parking areas and behind the building all get done. The skid starts in front of the white roof. Truck does from the 45 degree bend in the building all the way to the corner.

Skid goes to a lot that is connected to the building with the white roof, and just a little bit smaller and does the front half of the lot closest to the building. Truck comes over and does the second half further from the building. Then they both go out back and work together till they get the back done.


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## hansenslawncare (Feb 23, 2012)

Renting a loader would cost about $30k for the winter. I could purchase 2 Eblings 16'; for our 2 trucks. That's why I considered 2 trucks. I'd still be saving money compared to the loader rental; and now I have 2 Eblings. Plus; I could chew off more work.

The tractor would help with piling; and we have another truck for our other commercial accounts. 

I have a Short Iron Back blade...but only used it on half acre lots and smaller. I asked these questions and created this thread to make sure that I wasn't overlooking anything. 

For us; 10.5 acres would be the largest lot we have touched. We want to do a good job!


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

hansenslawncare said:


> Renting a loader would cost about $30k for the winter. I could purchase 2 Eblings 16'; for our 2 trucks. That's why I considered 2 trucks. I'd still be saving money compared to the loader rental; and now I have 2 Eblings. Plus; I could chew off more work.
> 
> The tractor would help with piling; and we have another truck for our other commercial accounts.
> 
> ...


Renting a loader would be crazy in my opinion. While they are very nice on bigger lots, they aren't a requirement until you're 15+ acres to me. A truck with v plow/expanding plow and Ebling, or a skid steer and box or hydraulic wing plow would have no issues that I can think of in a lot the size you're talking.

Yes, a loader would be great. It'd go fast although our loaders have never been substantially faster than Eblings on light 2-4 inch snows. Heavier snows, 8"+, they really start to shine. But it's far from a requirement with the amount of snow you say you get most of the time. In a heavy winter, would it be nice? Hell yes. But if you equip for heavy winters every winter you'll never make any money, it'll all be tied up in iron sitting there for the one in ten year storm.

Bottom line is, trucks make you (or at least I hope) make you money all summer long. Skid steers probably do the same if you're in landscaping. A wheel loader you'll either rent for an insane amount each winter, or buy an older one and leave it sit. The only reason I have any loaders is because some of the accounts I have are high profile. They pay enough to justify owning the machine and letting it sit in the summer. So that's what happens. I got by for a long time without any at all, but it certainly lowers stress levels when there is 8-12" in the forecast.


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## hansenslawncare (Feb 23, 2012)

Roger that thanks for the input. Sent you a PM by the way.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Back atcha


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

@Mark Oomkes @Maclawnco


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

Ive squeezed out 3 acres in an hour on a 1 inch snow. Was working the truck and my brain hard keeping up with that much going on quickly. But thats the problem with these. Need a very component operator. 

And FWIW, you can buy loaders for 30k or less. Were buying our 3rd this week.


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## hansenslawncare (Feb 23, 2012)

Thanks Maclawnco. Yeah I've been looking around for used loaders around $30k; my only problem is I hate used equipment. We started our business with used equipment and had to replace 2 transmissions within 1 month during a busy winter. I know loaders are made to work much more than a truck...but I really only like purchasing brand new equipment. I just hate the feeling of "not trusting" my equipment to start up and run properly.

On a 10.5 acre lot; would you stay with a Truck/ebling (maybe 2) plus a skid or would you go with a loader/14' pusher/16' pusher?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

We've got 3 621B Case loaders. Ranging from 5000-15000 hours. Bought all 3 well used for under 30k each and they've been flawless. And will likely buy another this fall. 

I don't know how anyone could justify buying a 150-200k loader brand new just for snow.


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## hansenslawncare (Feb 23, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> We've got 3 621B Case loaders. Ranging from 5000-15000 hours. Bought all 3 well used for under 30k each and they've been flawless. And will likely buy another this fall.
> 
> I don't know how anyone could justify buying a 150-200k loader brand new just for snow.


Right they're not cheap. That's why the Truck/Ebling is more appealing; with a skid stacking snow.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

To figure if the set up you are considering is overkill you need to consider how fast this lot need to be done. You said it's a church so I'm guessing they can be low priority for most days except Sunday. I would consider what else this equipment could service on a route first. If they are only doing this lot and then helping out with routes I would only do the truck and skid. Well maybe not even the skid. If you only get 2-4 most the time a V plow will stack those piles at the end of the run no problem, 400 feet is not what I consider a long push. Don't overthink it. 

If you have a big storm coming in, you will know ahead of time. Establish a relationship with a rental company and put a wheel loader on retainer for the storm so if you need it it's available. That's what I started doing this year after a break down. Tie it up for the storm, if you don't need it good, if you do no one else can take it.


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## hansenslawncare (Feb 23, 2012)

ktfbgb said:


> To figure if the set up you are considering is overkill you need to consider how fast this lot need to be done. You said it's a church so I'm guessing they can be low priority for most days except Sunday. I would consider what else this equipment could service on a route first. If they are only doing this lot and then helping out with routes I would only do the truck and skid. Well maybe not even the skid. If you only get 2-4 most the time a V plow will stack those piles at the end of the run no problem, 400 feet is not what I consider a long push. Don't overthink it.
> 
> If you have a big storm coming in, you will know ahead of time. Establish a relationship with a rental company and put a wheel loader on retainer for the storm so if you need it it's available. That's what I started doing this year after a break down. Tie it up for the storm, if you don't need it good, if you do no one else can take it.


Great post...never quite thought it completely out I'll have to say. I tend to try and "over" kill a job this size. Which for me is/would be the largest we service.

Low priority is exactly true for the weekdays. I know these back plows are quite efficient; especially pulling with a truck/speed.

Thanks for the help!


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