# toro 2 cycle snowblower won't start after a couple properties



## carsoncity (Jan 8, 2006)

we have a couple toro 2 cycle snowblowers and a few of them run fine for a couple of properties, then you move on to another property and suddenly they won't start. Any ideas.

Thanks


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## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

Possibly flooded due to fuel dribbling thru the carb during transport? Try turning the fuel off and allowing it to shut off on it's own.

Or...maybe having one of the guys from the Canadian bobsled team trying to start it is your problem...might want to give the US team a shout. LOL


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

Laszlo Almasi;1015548 said:


> Possibly flooded due to fuel dribbling thru the carb during transport? Try turning the fuel off and allowing it to shut off on it's own.
> Never shut down a 2 cycle by turning the fuel off as you are also turning off the "OIL" Turn the motor off normally and then shut the fuel off to prevent flooding the engine
> Or...maybe having one of the guys from the Canadian bobsled team trying to start it is your problem...might want to give the US team a shout. LOL


Actually... he's using the U.S. gold formula and that's obviously not working:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## kikengrass (Sep 9, 2008)

i had lawn boy throwers that did that would run for a whil then quit . the ethanol in the gas eats the carbs up then they flood out fast when at op temp a new carb did the trick for me . also check for a short on your kill switch water is a terrible thing for electricty


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## carsoncity (Jan 8, 2006)

it can't be the carb, at least i hope not, the machines are practically brand new. I'd hope they set the carb right, and the carb would be fine, unless Toro sent out some bad carbs with these machines. Right now I'm leaning towards gas dripping in the carb from transporting them. I hope that's all that's wrong.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

What models are they, I doubt if it's anything that's been mentioned.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

If the machine is running at one property and then won't start at the next, it sounds like you hit the primer bulb when you go to start the machine again. That floods it and it won't start, for quite a while actually! Once they been running you just need to pull the cord, no choke or primer.


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

we have the same problem, you have to constantly drop the carb and clean it, then works again for awhile... 4 of them were stolen, now we only have the one, they are nice and light, but I will never buy a two stroke again. Water is always getting in as well, even when we are super carefull with the gas.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

I been using these for years and have never heard of anything like what you're talking about.


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

add an in-line fuel shut off to the supply line, see if that helps.


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## carsoncity (Jan 8, 2006)

i think they are the 3650, can't remember for sure, I'm not at the shop right now.


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## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

hitachiman 200;1015606 said:


> Actually... he's using the U.S. gold formula and that's obviously not working:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


Not the bobsled formula...seemed to be a spanking you guys took from our final run down the track.

As for turning the fuel off, you can do so with no problems. I'm a PWC technician and have been racing, riding and maintaining 2 strokes jet skis for 22 years now. With no fuel to run the motor shuts down. The residual oil film remaining on the components is more than adequate to facilitate a safe shutdown in this manner.

Also, as also mentioned, once the motor is warmed up all you should need is a pull or two to get it started. I still suspect that your issue is a flooding issue. What you can do to verify this would be to pull the plug when it is in its nonstarting mood. If the electrodes are wet it is flooding out. If not, then it isn't getting fuel...which I doubt is the problem. Two strokes are two strokes regardless of their end use. They tend to dribble fuel when they are shut down.

Once you understand the basic principles (and quirks) of two strokes you will be able to start them easily, restart them easily, and have numerous years of problem free use. It just boils down to how they operate and understanding them. And the oil you select can and will play a huge role in their longevity as well. Cut corners on that...and you'll pay the price down the road.


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## kikengrass (Sep 9, 2008)

the carb may not be the problem at all. may be flooding in transport. i have 4 blowers all 2 stroke and they never flood in transport, people over priming and choking them is a different story. the two with the bad carbs i had were less then a year old the carbs were junk. they since up graded the carbs. thought that may be the problem since what u decribe is exactly how my blowers were acting. good luck shoveling sucks


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## Indy (Sep 23, 2007)

maybe she's running hot (check the oil mix)

If it starts after sitting a while, your on the right track


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

Laszlo Almasi;1015923 said:


> Not the bobsled formula...seemed to be a spanking you guys took from our final run down the track.
> 
> Sleds are for kids, now if your talkin a mans game, tymusictymusicCanadian hockey would be a sure bet.tymusictymusic


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

carsoncity;1015504 said:


> we have a couple toro 2 cycle snowblowers and a few of them run fine for a couple of properties, then you move on to another property and suddenly they won't start. Any ideas.
> 
> Thanks


I would not be surprized if the plugs were bad and the as the spark plug cools it will shrink the broken electrode in the interior of the plug and lose contact.

If the engines are warm they should be primed only once. My CCR3000 starts cold with no issues with the manual choke.

i would buy a bunch of new plugs and be sure to gap them to 25 thousanths and you will have no issues.

The 2 cycles lose engine heat quickly so a squirt of ether will do no harm.

My 20 year old S200 will not start if its cold-its probably ready for rings I guess.

 leon:waving:


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## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

leon;1016473 said:


> ....snip...The 2 cycles lose engine heat quickly so a squirt of ether will do no harm.
> 
> My 20 year old S200 will not start if its cold-its probably ready for rings I guess.
> 
> leon:waving:


Actually, any type of starting fluid, be it ether other anything else...even straight gas, will indeed cause harm. The problem with ether and/or any other type of starting fluid other than premixed fuel/oil is that the fluid will wash the coating of oil off of the cylinder walls and bearings so you are doing more harm than you realize and down the road as the damage builds, so will the chances of a severe problem requiring larger squirts of money to resolve.


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

Laszlo Almasi;1024208 said:


> Actually, any type of starting fluid, be it ether other anything else...even straight gas, will indeed cause harm. The problem with ether and/or any other type of starting fluid other than premixed fuel/oil is that the fluid will wash the coating of oil off of the cylinder walls and bearings so you are doing more harm than you realize and down the road as the damage builds, so will the chances of a severe problem requiring larger squirts of money to resolve.


So,.. it is acceptable to run the engine out of gas/oil on purpose by turning the fuel off while the engine is running,...( why anyone would do this is beyond me as it has no usefull purpose).

A good techie would not be so lazy and would drain the fuel bowl before off season storage. Simply turning the fuel off between uses is the recommended way by all manufacturers.

With out board powered watercraft it is permissable to run the engine untill it starts to lean out then turn off ignition. (this removes most off the fuel from the float bowls but keeps your engine well lubed for storage. my johnson 60 takes about 30 secs.), so that when you raise the engine for transport the fuel doesn't end up in the bilge, and then in the water when you pull the plug on the launch ramp.


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

leon;1016473 said:


> I would not be surprized if the plugs were bad and the as the spark plug cools it will shrink the broken electrode in the interior of the plug and lose contact.
> 
> If the engines are warm they should be primed only once. My CCR3000 starts cold with no issues with the manual choke.
> 
> ...


You are right Leon as long as the engine was shut down properly to begin with, 
Ether is a gas, not a liquid, so a small single shot to aid in starting a very cold engine will do no harm as it will not "wash" away the oil.


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## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

Rock on Canada...do as you wish. But I've been doing it this way for over 20 years. I've also been repairing engines for 20 years and the majority of those engines were owned by operators that used ether/starting fluid to start their motors. If you know how to start a 2 stroke properly then you will not need anything more than the choke. If you do (need starting fluid) then you have other issues that require attention. Ether/starting fluid just compensates for problems in the fuel circuitry.


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

Laszlo Almasi;1025721 said:


> Rock on Canada...do as you wish. and the majority of those engines were owned by operators that used ether/starting fluid to start their motors. .


The damage was more likely caused from using dirty or contaminated fuel. Once that is done they may have resorted to using ether to get there already damaged motor to run.

-Ether/starting fluid just compensates for problems in the fuel circuitry.
Liquid gasoline does not burn, it's the vapour that does. When a two stroke motor is very cold the atomized gasoline tends to condense into larger droplets before reaching the cylinder. Ether is a more volatile gas that vaporizes at a lower temp than gas therefor making it easier to burn. So it does have a usefull purpose even with a healthy engine. Try starting a diesel engine with no glow plugs when it's below freezing.

-If you know how to start a 2 stroke properly then you will not need anything more than the choke. 
-If you do (need starting fluid) then you have other issues that require attention. 
My guess is you don't see -30 very often down there. I also said that there could be issues with the carb.

-But I've been doing it this way for over 20 years. 
Just because you do something for twenty years does not make it a right or acceptable practice.

-I've also been repairing engines for 20 years.
I am a Certified Mechanic for 30. Rebuilt my first bike 40 years ago.


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## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

While some of your post is correct, I still stand by the fact that using any sort of ether/starting fluid is improper and will lead to eventual engine problems. While opinions do vary, any research you do will lead you to the same conclusion. Old school opinions hurts many motors but as we learn more, we realize that how things were done, even 40 years ago, may not be the best thing to do.

You may not be alone in your assumptions, but I am not alone with the facts. Just because it is done and can help to start your motor does not make it proper by any means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starting_fluid
http://www.sbtontheweb.com/forum/showthread.php?p=159831
http://www.nefga.org/forum/boating/21434-2-stroke-20hp-wont-start.html
http://www.brokeboats.com/carbs.html


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