# F350 enough for 3-4yd salter?



## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

As title says Im trying to decide if a cab/chassis with flat deck f350drw would be suitable for a fisher 10' procaster salt/sand spreader. Guessing flat deck will be around 1000lb and the salter is 1000lb. that leaves 5000lb room for material, according to the payload specs (about 7000lb) 

I know it depends on how wet the salt is but it seems to be a good match. is anyone running similar setups with a one ton c/c? Should one go to a 450 or 550 for that kind of weight? not sure if the payload is conservative or it can handle more. thoughts and opinions? thanks


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Do you want to be legal?

If so, the 350 won't cut it.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;1767710 said:


> Do you want to be legal?
> 
> If so, the 350 won't cut it.


Yup.

If you have salt on site I wouldn't worry about it. But if you have to transport eh. We run 2 yards in everything.

On a side note I worked for a company that ran 550s with 1.5 yard vboxea that you had to load by hand. Lol


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

I have never seen a salt truck pulled over by vehicle compliance where my plowing/slating is done. Maybe things are different in canada, or at least on the east coast. I have about 15km (but through town,traffic, train tracks etc) from salt storage to where i spread. 

I mainly want to know if the truck itself will handle the load. If i get in trouble with authorities, that's my fault! Or should I look for a larger truck to spread 3 yards. also I wont always be loading it to the max, just occasionally when we have cold weather or ice storms where u need to spread a lot of salt fast. I have an international 4700 dump with undergate salter, but is not at all user friendly, have to shut off the truck every time to engage the pto, restart (5-8 times per load) to dump back. material sticks to dump bed. then when the salt slides back the box flips back and fully extends the telescoping cylinder with a bang. ready for another v-box i think!


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

We put a yard on top of our 2 yards sometimes. But we spread on the same lot we load. 

We have two 2500hds and one 3500hd

They squat pretty good


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## alldayrj (Feb 28, 2010)

Sand can easily be 2/3k lbs per yard so no, you will be at the max of a 550 and the 350 will be way overloaded.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I hear ya, but you will run into problems with the 350 overloading it regularly. 

We did way back in the early 90's. Left the shop with 4 tons of salt every time. Stupid now that I really think about it, but that was 25 years ago and things were different. 

Anyways, brakes, wheel studs and tires will be issues. Especially the studs on Furds. I've had numerous issues with OEM studs on 500's. Aftermarkets are much better, so far only 4 of them.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

I wouldn't even waste my time with a 1 ton any more, the minute you load it with a couple yards of anything your over loaded.


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

My opinion has nothing to do with the law pulling you over. It's about plowing and driving safely. Get in an accident and you're overloaded, and you're gonna get destroyed legally. Not to mention the psychological beating you'll take if ya kill someone.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

It's tough to say, anything can happen at any time. Our F350 is a srw and before we were out of rock salt we ran a 2 yard vbox and it was heavy but the truck handled it fine I thought. We also run a set of air bags under it with 18lbs of pressure in each bag. I think our "legal payload" is somewhere around 4500lbs and we might have been a hair over that by a few hundred pounds. I think the truck would handle 3 yards. Check part numbers for suspension parts and compare them to an F550. My Ford dealer said my F350 had the same ball joints, brakes and axles etc. as a F350 drw and F450, they said an F550 changes a few things. IDK, ours has held up for a couple years now and we were heaping our 2 yard vbox quite a bit last year


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Sawboy;1767805 said:


> My opinion has nothing to do with the law pulling you over. It's about plowing and driving safely. Get in an accident and you're overloaded, and you're gonna get destroyed legally. Not to mention the psychological beating you'll take if ya kill someone.


I understand the concerns but I think a lot has to do with the govt. getting as much money as possible out of you with the weight rating and registering these trucks. Look at a F250 then a F350 (srw) the only difference is one extra leaf spring but yet the pay load goes way up and so does the registration.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

We've ran a 4 yard salter sitting on the frame of our 2001 GMC 3500 since brand new. It's only been used as a salter since new. It mainly runs between 3 sites which are all less then 1 mile from the salt shed. If you have to spend anytime on the road I would advise against it. For us it has worked extremely well. I'd tell you the biggest load my dad has scaled on the truck but you wouldn't believe me. LOL


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

I know my chevy 3500 went over the scale a 10,500 or so empty. Just plow on front, spreader on rear, it an ext cab, flatbed with hoist. My salter is a smith 1.75 yd with 10" extensions, brings it up to almost 3 yard. The salt yard would only load with 1500 or so lbs because its registered at 12k (mfg weight).I normally liad at my shop, no scale and take about 2 ton, truck handles that fine, if its heaped you can feel it in tge handling on corners not so much in tge brakes. After talking to the salt yard guys they said most of their customers register srw trucks @ 13k & drw at 15k, which to me is horrible if you get in an accident or are stopped your knowingly & pre planning to be overweight.


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## allagashpm (Sep 29, 2012)

What year 350 ? Will it be for salt only or will it have a plow on the front? I would think that would be better suited for a 550 myself, but I've seen a guy around here with a early 2000's chevy half ton with an 8ft blade and a 2 yd stainless sander fully loaded. The spinner was 2 inches off the ground.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

alldayrj;1767764 said:


> Sand can easily be 2/3k lbs per yard so no, you will be at the max of a 550 and the 350 will be way overloaded.


Better pull that boss out of your truck then lol.

Personally the biggest I would put in a one ton is a 2250. I would put a 4 yard if needed in a 550


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## alldayrj (Feb 28, 2010)

Whiffyspark;1767966 said:


> Better pull that boss out of your truck then lol.
> 
> Personally the biggest I would put in a one ton is a 2250. I would put a 4 yard if needed in a 550


The boss vbx is in a 550 and i think that truck is a little wimpy but you wont catch me dead with salt in my international


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

thanks for the feedback. a blade may go on the truck someday, but mainly want it as a salt only truck for now. We plow with tractors. this would possibly be a new f350, have used for it in the other seasons, which 1 ton is more than adequate. I could put a big v-box on my international but the dump box is 10', then the cylinder is at the front and juts in a foot, and then there are gussets on the inside of the box taking up another foot. the longest box I can put in a big heavy truck with 23000 rear axle is 8'! plus I just toasted my allison automatic mt653 apparently from too much back and forth directional changes. I have some small yards with some tight places and steep hills, the pickup would be more nimble I know. I currently also have an f250 with saltdogg 1500. I would not want a bigger salter on it either.

So im thinking maybe to move away from a big heavy truck. However Maybe I can remove the dump box for the winter and put a big 6-8 yard salter on the frame? I know a v-box is way more user friendly and quicker then the undergate salter, especially if I have damp salt. So maybe I will still like the 4700. very indecisive right now. but this will also be for next year. just thinking ahead.

maybe for a salt only truck a used 550 might be the answer? keep your experiences coming, I appreciate all feedback. I weigh what you guys are saying and trying to apply things to my situation.

this response seems choppy i know, in a hurry and I added things and cut out things so it may not all make sense what i say! thanks again


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

bcbrouwer;1768007 said:


> thanks for the feedback. a blade may go on the truck someday, but mainly want it as a salt only truck for now. We plow with tractors. this would possibly be a new f350, have used for it in the other seasons, which 1 ton is more than adequate. I could put a big v-box on my international but the dump box is 10', then the cylinder is at the front and juts in a foot, and then there are gussets on the inside of the box taking up another foot. the longest box I can put in a big heavy truck with 23000 rear axle is 8'! plus I just toasted my allison automatic mt653 apparently from too much back and forth directional changes. I have some small yards with some tight places and steep hills, the pickup would be more nimble I know. I currently also have an f250 with saltdogg 1500. I would not want a bigger salter on it either.
> 
> So im thinking maybe to move away from a big heavy truck. However Maybe I can remove the dump box for the winter and put a big 6-8 yard salter on the frame? I know a v-box is way more user friendly and quicker then the undergate salter, especially if I have damp salt. So maybe I will still like the 4700. very indecisive right now. but this will also be for next year. just thinking ahead.
> 
> ...


You know salt weights about 2200 lbs per yard right


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Triple L;1768024 said:


> You know salt weights about 2200 lbs per yard right


And?

Everyone is so against it why does salt dogg recommend 2 yd spreaders for one tons?


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## goel (Nov 23, 2010)

Whiffyspark;1768026 said:


> And?
> 
> Everyone is so against it why does salt dogg recommend 2 yd spreaders for one tons?


Because they don't care if you overload and get tickets or kill some one. They are just pushing a product.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

goel;1768033 said:


> Because they don't care if you overload and get tickets or kill some one. They are just pushing a product.


But they won't let you hang an over weight plow on the front of your truck??


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## aczlan (Jan 10, 2009)

bcbrouwer;1768007 said:


> thanks for the feedback. a blade may go on the truck someday, but mainly want it as a salt only truck for now. We plow with tractors. this would possibly be a new f350, have used for it in the other seasons, which 1 ton is more than adequate. I could put a big v-box on my international but the dump box is 10', then the cylinder is at the front and juts in a foot, and then there are gussets on the inside of the box taking up another foot. the longest box I can put in a big heavy truck with 23000 rear axle is 8'! plus I just toasted my allison automatic mt653 apparently from too much back and forth directional changes. I have some small yards with some tight places and steep hills, the pickup would be more nimble I know. I currently also have an f250 with saltdogg 1500. I would not want a bigger salter on it either.
> So im thinking maybe to move away from a big heavy truck. However Maybe I can remove the dump box for the winter and put a big 6-8 yard salter on the frame? I know a v-box is way more user friendly and quicker then the undergate salter, especially if I have damp salt. So maybe I will still like the 4700. very indecisive right now. but this will also be for next year. just thinking ahead.


Thats what they do on the NY Thruway:








Source: http://www.thruway.ny.gov/travelers/safety/wintermaint.html

Aaron Z


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## goel (Nov 23, 2010)

Whiffyspark;1768040 said:


> But they won't let you hang an over weight plow on the front of your truck??


Wow. Really.

A plow always weighs the same. It's a determined value. Let's call it 1000 lbs. This weight never really changes.

A EMPTY salter also weighs a determined weight. Let's also call this 1000 lbs.

BUT an empty salter carries 2 yards of air which weigh nothing. BUT, the operator can displace the 2 yards of air with 2 yards (or less. Or more) of salt - which we know on average weighs 2200 lbs per yard.

So, the manufacturer can recommend a 2 yard salter with an empty weight to fit on any truck. How the operator uses the salter determines everything else.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

There's nothing nimble about our f350 srw with 2 1/2 yds of salt back there. We have used a poly salt dog for years now and our new flat beds place the spreader about 6" further back verses a normal bed.

I've never had a drw pickup so I don't know how that'd be, but the srw loaded with that weight is just abusing the truck if you do any amount of plowing and driving.

Hanging a plow off the front will increase the overall weight but it will be balanced better......


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

goel;1768052 said:


> Wow. Really.
> 
> A plow always weighs the same. It's a determined value. Let's call it 1000 lbs. This weight never really changes.
> 
> ...


Doesn't matter same principle. A dealer will install just about any spreader you want on any truck. You can't say the same for a plow.

It's all irreverent anyway. We run 2 yards


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

I think we have close to the same International trucks. I would salt with these trucks vs the pick up. My trucks can turn circles around my f350 Srw.

Picked up salt today with it. The hopper was full level load. Before we unloaded we scaled the truck and again after. Was about 2 Tonnes heavy. I figure my box prob weights that. When I got that salter for it after switching from a undertailgte salter on it I wanted to pull the box but everyone said don't bother. Now that we are starting to spread more that box has to come off.

This salt supplier says they load by weight but they do not show me a empty weight just bill saying you took x amount. To me it seams and judging by my scale tickets take the truck to a truck terminal to weigh it, its like they are selling by the tonne and load by yardage. But that's another story.



bcbrouwer;1767740 said:


> I have never seen a salt truck pulled over by vehicle compliance where my plowing/slating is done. Maybe things are different in canada, or at least on the east coast. I have about 15km (but through town,traffic, train tracks etc) from salt storage to where i spread.
> 
> I mainly want to know if the truck itself will handle the load. If i get in trouble with authorities, that's my fault! Or should I look for a larger truck to spread 3 yards. also I wont always be loading it to the max, just occasionally when we have cold weather or ice storms where u need to spread a lot of salt fast. I have an international 4700 dump with undergate salter, but is not at all user friendly, have to shut off the truck every time to engage the pto, restart (5-8 times per load) to dump back. material sticks to dump bed. then when the salt slides back the box flips back and fully extends the telescoping cylinder with a bang. ready for another v-box i think!


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## Brad3403 (Sep 8, 2008)

A 2 yard spreader is the largest I would put on a 1 ton. My Chev 3500 handles a 2 yard perfect (when it's heaped, you're closer to 2.5). I run a 4 yard on my F550 and when that is heaped you can really feel it.


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## BillyRgn (Jan 28, 2004)

I would go for at least a 450, will a 350 handle the weight ? Sure but it will be scary going around curves and will not stop like it should especially when the brakes get some wear on them, god forbid you hit someone like that your absolutely screwed, as someone else mentioned, your gonna have trouble with studs, brakes warping, maybe axles if you do it regularly. Get into at least a 450, get the bigger brakes, bigger axles, bigger suspension and a higher weight rating on 19.5 inch tires. Get a truck that's designed for that weight. Sure add air bags, that does nothing for the truck other than make it ride more level an balance it a little on curves but all that stress is still there if not more because the suspension is now more ridged. I have a 350 mason dump with an 8ft henderson, anything more than two tons is over working the truck and it does not stop as it should


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## javaboy (Feb 15, 2014)

I understand that you are not concerned with following the law as long as the truck can handle it and in your opinion (or the opinion of random internet strangers) it is safe. 

However, if I worked for you driving that truck and found out that you knowingly overload it I would be quite upset. 

I think you would be better getting something with a payload rating to match your payload. 

I personally have never seen a Allison transmission fail from "too much back and forth" unless the operator was stuck and super hard on it. Even then it's hard to do.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

javaboy;1775302 said:


> I understand that you are not concerned with following the law as long as the truck can handle it and in your opinion (or the opinion of random internet strangers) it is safe.
> 
> However, if I worked for you driving that truck and found out that you knowingly overload it I would be quite upset.
> 
> ...


So tell us what you would expect him to buy?

I'll say it again. We should all sell our oversized blades and vboxes and buy 650s to carry our 2 yard spreaders


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## javaboy (Feb 15, 2014)

The options he gave were f350, 450 or 550. I would get a truck to handle the intended load. The manufactures put the ratings on trucks to cover their asses. Why should you take on the liability that hundreds of engineers don't want to take on?


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## javaboy (Feb 15, 2014)

bcbrouwer;1768007 said:


> However Maybe I can remove the dump box for the winter and put a big 6-8 yard salter on the frame? I know a v-box is way more user friendly and quicker then the undergate salter, especially if I have damp salt.


Why not get a all season dump bed that has a V-Box style sander built in for the International. Something like a 8 yard. Seems like it might be the best of both worlds depending on what you use the truck for in the summer. I know Monroe makes some.

http://www.monroetruck.com/Products.aspx?category=208&product=94


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## matt-max (Dec 27, 2000)

shpe-2250 or similar is the biggest i would put on a F350 or 3500.
any more than that is asking for trouble.
you can really feel the extra weight in the drivetrain, braking, turning, accelerating, everything.....it does not feel good at all.
we bumped up to a Kodiak 4500 4x4 with front and rear Timbrens for the shpe-4000 and with a mounded load it's more than enough. we have a pretty long route and i will stop and reload rather than put the truck (and me) through the stress.
we run the shpe-2250 on a 12k gvw 3500 with dump body and Timbrens and its fine unless you ridiculously over load it.


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

javaboy;1775302 said:


> I understand that you are not concerned with following the law as long as the truck can handle it and in your opinion (or the opinion of random internet strangers) it is safe.
> 
> However, if I worked for you driving that truck and found out that you knowingly overload it I would be quite upset.
> 
> ...


Trust me, I have a $8800 bill to prove that a mt653 allison transmission can and will fail at only 43,000km. I have some tight yards, and maybe some clutches were slow to engage and when I went back and forth there was always a delay, then a lurch to get moving, untill one time something let go. Its a 1996 with 43000km so it sat a lot. Maybe the clutches are slow to engage from internal rust or breakdown of the aluminum, (oil was very clean, change it anyway and filters when I bought it last year) the main housing broke off 2 aluminum tabs and then the whole rotating assembly was just spinning. I was told cheaper to put in a re-trans than to rebuild this one with new cases. I wonder... but too late now. I could have done the work myself of swapping transmissions if I knew this. I am very easy on my truck, I would always come to a complete stop before changing gears. Maybe just a fluke?

Anyway, another reason I want to move away from the undergate is I have to stop the truck, shut it off, engage the pto (air shift) restart engine and dump box. Every time i want to dump I do this. it gets old real quick. A v-box you just keep going and it spreads steady and consistant. I've had great luck with my 1500 salt dogg. probably;y ran 500 ton through it and very little trouble. I might even put a v-box on a flatbed on the 4700. it would take a 6 yard salter easily enough. I need the capacity now, too many loads with the small pickup. and then maybe a 2 or 2.5 for a 1 ton.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I had a feeling anything bigger than a 2.5 yard was too much for a 350, just wanted to see the consensuses.


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

javaboy;1775502 said:


> Why not get a all season dump bed that has a V-Box style sander built in for the International. Something like a 8 yard. Seems like it might be the best of both worlds depending on what you use the truck for in the summer. I know Monroe makes some.
> 
> http://www.monroetruck.com/Products.aspx?category=208&product=94


thats pretty sweet! looks pricy! Ill check it out


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

Grassman09;1768438 said:


> I think we have close to the same International trucks. I would salt with these trucks vs the pick up. My trucks can turn circles around my f350 Srw.
> 
> Picked up salt today with it. The hopper was full level load. Before we unloaded we scaled the truck and again after. Was about 2 Tonnes heavy. I figure my box prob weights that. When I got that salter for it after switching from a undertailgte salter on it I wanted to pull the box but everyone said don't bother. Now that we are starting to spread more that box has to come off.
> 
> This salt supplier says they load by weight but they do not show me a empty weight just bill saying you took x amount. To me it seams and judging by my scale tickets take the truck to a truck terminal to weigh it, its like they are selling by the tonne and load by yardage. But that's another story.


Yes they are similar. But it looks like you can slide a v-box all the way to the front on yours? Mine has a telescoping cylinder which juts in 1' and then reinforcement gussets on the floor take up another 1'. so I could only put a 8' salter in my 10' dump box. thinking of either swapping for a sissor lift or put a flatbed on it. Dont really use the truck for dump truck purposes other than my undergate salter. If i need some gravel or a load of compost, people in my area charge very little for trucking with a bigger dump truck or tractor/dump trailer.

I love the 4700, turns almost as sharp as my 2010 f250 (not quite, but close!) So I would like to keep it. just the whole transmission breaking on my soured me a bit. but goter back and I think I can make it work for next year. I know Im not overloading it, its a heavy spec truck!


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## javaboy (Feb 15, 2014)

bcbrouwer;1776218 said:


> Trust me, I have a $8800 bill to prove that a mt653 allison transmission can and will fail at only 43,000km. .


Don't read me wrong all I was saying is personally I've had good luck with them. Although not that model. I had a tranny go on a brand new rental car once with 4,000 miles. It can happen.

I have no clue what the all seasons box cost but I bet you are right that it is expensive. And I hear you loud and clear with the tail gate spreader. I've been there. I would take a V box that is half the size instead of having to dump back and hope the load doesn't stick.

Sounds like maybe just pull the dump off and mount the sander in its place?


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

javaboy;1776343 said:


> Don't read me wrong all I was saying is personally I've had good luck with them. Although not that model. I had a tranny go on a brand new rental car once with 4,000 miles. It can happen.
> 
> I have no clue what the all seasons box cost but I bet you are right that it is expensive. And I hear you loud and clear with the tail gate spreader. I've been there. I would take a V box that is half the size instead of having to dump back and hope the load doesn't stick.
> 
> Sounds like maybe just pull the dump off and mount the sander in its place?


Yeah, I guess maybe I came on a little strong there, still feeling the sting of the bill and the reputation of the allison, mine being an exception to the rule!! It's great to have all these suggestions, but in the end, for all I actually use my dump box I also think I might just do a chassis mount v-box or v-box on a flatbed. Still time to think about it, doing it for next season. this ones hopefully almost over, then can rethink salting stradigy. Also depends on if we gain or loose work (hopefully gain!)


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## F250/XLS (Nov 23, 2014)




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