# new to the large commercial scene



## zimmatic (Oct 11, 2008)

I have an opportunity to bid on this commercial property. I own a payloader with 2 yard bucket and 14' snow pusher. The machine can stay on site. The snow does not need to be hauled away unless manager approves it. Last 5 years it hasnt needed to be done. The site is a 24hr grocery store. Sidewalks and entry ways will be done by the staff of grocery store.

The manager isnt sure if he wants salt sand mix or straight salt.

I figure it will take 3-5 hours per 1-3" snowfall for the payloader driver and 1 hour for another driver to get in all those small area's
The parking lot is roughly 400' x 450' and the loading dock area is roughly 450' x 52'

I am not trying to find a cost yet, rather, trying to figure times.

Is there any other things I may be missing?

Do you think the times are close?

Any Help is appreciated


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

You've got alittle over 4.5 acs... I think with the loader and truck I think per 3 inches would take you about 1.5-3 hours depending on the amount of cars that WILL be in the way...

Good Luck its a nice easy straight forward lot.....


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

What part of the country are you in? Your times are close but the loading docks will need to pushed away. Not much room to stack the snow if you have large event or a couple back to back. I guess your going to stack snow down at the edge of the parking lot away from the store front. Customers will be a pain they will be in your way all the time and employees will have there cars parked for hours at a time you will have to plow around.


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## zimmatic (Oct 11, 2008)

Yes the snow will be piled on the bottom side of the picture on the parking lot. If I get it I will have one employe dedicated to this site since it is a 24hr grocery store.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

a couple hours max with a loader and a pick-up with a minimal snowfall. 5 hours and they are milking it, unless you are hourly in which you're making money anyways.

i would suggest straight salt to your manager. sand makes a mess of the parking lot, specially when everything thaws, and it makes a mess of the store floors.


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## Stowe (Jul 13, 2010)

Hey guys, 


Could you plow the above lot with two F-550's?


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## Grn Mtn (Sep 21, 2004)

Stowe;1066495 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Could you plow the above lot with two F-550's?


you could plow it, but it will take significantly longer and then you have the problem of stacking. parking lots generate lots of snow and the loader allows you to put it in places you can't and at heights you can't with a truck. and one of the trucks would have to have a v plow.

so yes but I wouldn't want to do it with just trucks.


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## Grn Mtn (Sep 21, 2004)

zimmatic;1064616 said:


> I have an opportunity to bid on this commercial property. I own a payloader with 2 yard bucket and 14' snow pusher....


back up plan if the loader won't start?

the operation I work for in the winter has mostly new equipment and stuff still happens, luckily we have lots of equipment that can shuffle around and fill in.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

So, did you end up getting this Cub Foods?


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## zimmatic (Oct 11, 2008)

no I didnt, do you know who did?


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

No, I dont know who it is. They dont have decals on their trucks.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

I know why you didn't get this job

3 to 5 hours for a 14' pusher and another hour for a truck?????????


seriously?????????

come on
3-4 hours with one pickup total

with a big pusher, probably an hour to two
maybe

it's only a little over 3 acres
BFD

3 to 5 hours????????
You're were probably 2 or 3x the winning bid.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

agreed those numbers do seem a little high. Id say your probably looking at 2 hours with the loader, maybe 3 if you have to stack and push back some of the snow, and and not even an hour with a pick up.


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## zimmatic (Oct 11, 2008)

LoneCowboy
Sorry for not getting the bid. Why U bustn my chops over the deal. Maybe the guy who got it bid it low and now regretting it since december was one of the top 2 in snow fall ever in the twin cities. I have heard of several companies that bid incorrectly this year and have lost contracts because they couldnt pay there subs.---thus no longer exist. Plus upset clients, and subs that couldnt be paid.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

yes that is extremely unfortunate and thats why I have decided that if I am using seasonal contracts, they are capped. If they wont except a cap, then they can expect an extremely high price as well as a multiyear deal. I offer the cap both on the high end and the low end so then its fair to both parties. 

For example a 1 acre lot, i will include plowing up to 48" of snow for the year as well as a total of 22,000lbs of salt for the year. we average about 12 plows and an additional 10 salts, at an average of 800lbs per application that comes to 17600lbs. 22k gives us some room for additional applications etc. After that its t/m. Then we will refund them for low snow totals and low salt amounts used up to a certain amount. In this case I would go as high as 22" of snow and 11k on salt. After that its full price.


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## TPC Services (Dec 15, 2005)

So i'm guessing Zone 4 is the twin cities??? where in the heck in zone 4 are you. I know what zone 4 is for climates but that a large range!!


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Jusy for info here. The day that I seen the lot getting plowed was the first November plowing and the big blizzard. Both times it was just two pickup trucks doing it. Also im guessing that they charge by the hour, the November one they were already their plowing with less then 1/2" on the ground.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

there really isnt anything wrong with that. When we are getting storms we are constantly scaping our 24hr/zero tollerance sites. A lot of them get scraped if we are just doing a salting only. Why let the snow build up? These ones though are usually on a seasonal agreement and we add in time for them so its ok. But at a grocery store Id start pushing around 1/2 inch or so, get the drive lanes open and salt them, and come back every 1-2 inch or so


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

bristolturf;1180569 said:


> there really isnt anything wrong with that. When we are getting storms we are constantly scaping our 24hr/zero tollerance sites. A lot of them get scraped if we are just doing a salting only. Why let the snow build up? These ones though are usually on a seasonal agreement and we add in time for them so its ok. But at a grocery store Id start pushing around 1/2 inch or so, get the drive lanes open and salt them, and come back every 1-2 inch or so


I didn't say that there was anything wrong with it, I was just guessing that it was hourly. 1/2" of snow can be melted pretty easily with strait salt.

I don't really know, or care anymore at this point. I did not bid this property, I don't personally know anyone who bid the property, I don't know who is doing the property, and I really don't have any interest in bidding the property.

I just recognized the property from the picture and was curious.

zimmatic - Sorry for reenergizing this thread for you, I was just wondering.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

Oh yes, 1/2 inch can be melted off really easily with just some salt, but our zero tolerance sites pay a premium rate, for a premium service so we just always make sure there lot is completely clear, even if we have to scrap off a 1/2." Some are hourly, but most arent. And I make it a point to not just sit on the hourlys or keep going back every hour or something. Its every 1-2 inches we patrol it, so if it turns out to be 1 hour we have to come back or if its 3 hours later. 

And i just cant see why someone would go into that big of a site with just two pickups thats insane. Theres already really no where to push the snow and with a pick up your not getting any stacking out of it. hopefully they are just losing out big time. Most likely some guy went in at like 40/hour on a truck thinking he would make some money.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

3 acres is not a big site.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

no its not a terribly big site, but I think its big enough to justify at least one loader of some sorts just with how the snow has to be stacked there. Even if you were pushing left to right in those parking stalls after 3 or 4 storms hes probably going to be a good 15 stalls out. At least with the loader you can push it high up and reduce the amount of stalls your taking up. Also with the loader you could easily get all the snow from the lot into one area, a lot tougher with the pick ups. Thats just me, I wouldnt take on that site with 2 pick ups I would at least like to have a ss on site but preferably a small-medium size wheel loader.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

Sure, if I had a loader sitting around, I might use it, but it doesn't NEED a loader
and the bid doesn't require a loader

If you're bidding it with the costs of a loader (to sit most of the time), then it's going to be too expensive.

newsflash: darn few customers give a toot about service, they want lowest cost. If you're already in the area, have the loader, it would be mighty efficient but it doesn't make the place worth more. But a pickup would be fine.
One pickup, 2-3 hours, 1 sidewalk crew. done. Probably a $400/$500 site here (plus ice melt) and that would be nicely profitable.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

i agree it wouldnt make the site worth more. If I was putting a loader there, Id try to bid at least one of those other places around there so that thing isnt sitting or have some place within reasonable driving distance to do some work. 

The trucks will work not doubting that at, all just doesnt make the greatest amount of sence becasue eventually your going to need a loader to push back when those trucks arent able to push and stack the snow high. 

Customers dont care about the level of service. I see these shopping malls all looking like crap by me. They never used to look like they do 3 years ago before a big statewide company came in and took them. I mean the piles arent tall at all, but they go out probably 40 stalls, and we havent had a lot of snow. They plow it so there is about a 5 or 10 foot wide and about 4 foot tall pile of snow just going down the middle of the parking stalls, and then a decent size pile. One more push with the big 16 or 20 pushers there running and its done. 5 Minutes and that pile is half the width and twice the height.


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