# Associaton I need your opinion on about my price set



## chipfondoo (Sep 4, 2017)

I got a call on a association with 36ish homes and the street for snow removal this coming season. I would like your opinions on if I am in the ballpark or not for their monthly bill for the winter. 2in trigger for the contract was requested. I set the estimated times of service for 15x which in my area of Nd/Mn is usually real close by 3 or so times higher or lower. The street needs plowed as well. If any snow hauling is to be done I was gonna put in my contracts, that it is charged out separate and is not included in the contract price per month, and the manager agreed.

I typically charge $35 for a single drive (rare), $40 for a double drive, $45 for a triple, and if they have a grade at all to them I charge $10-15 extra for the extra effort of fighting the slopes with my Walker ghs snowblowers or in worst cases have to shovel, or I might just back drag since my plows will be there. Driveways that go to the back of homes run $50-55, and corner lots are usually $60-65. There are approximately 5 driveways that have a decent downgrade to them, the rest are pretty straight forward driveways and sidewalks to front doors. None have driveways going to the back yards, just figured I would put my rates all in this post. The cost for all the driveways and walks to front door of homes is $1,800. The snow will have plenty of room to be blown into the front yards and from what I saw, nothing has to be drug around to different spots as far as the driveways and sidewalks all are.

Salt was to be done as needed, and in my opinion likely only has to be the driveways and sidewalks where most the foot traffic takes place. I didn't factor salt into the pricing, and when speaking to the manager he agreed that when it was salted the few select times it might happen that it could just bill additional the few times it applies. Usually in my 6yrs of snow removal you will see about 2-5 times in the winter that would be salted. My cost is approximately $180-200/ton of treated rock salt.

The driveways will have at least 2 walker zero turns with snowblower attachments on them and a 2 walk behinds for the slight graded driveways and smaller width sidewalks leading to the front door of each home. The road is the part I am having the hardest time gauging cost on time spent. My estimate for the street was $450/time. I will use 1 plow used mainly for the road only, and most likely a few graded drives that are gonna be to slippery for my ZT's. Its likely gonna go much faster than I expect for the road to get completed, and I might be a little high for that part of the association. 


The number I am coming up with is $1800 for the walks, and $450 for the street, totaling $2,250/event. The part that I get confused on is if there is 4.1-5.9in of accumulation do I charge the 1.5x, or over 6-8in of snow charge 2x for that event if and when it happens, or should I factor in a few excessive events to my pricing to even out the days of drift, heavy, and wet snow? 

I am confident with my driveways pricing, but I wanna see what the forums think about my street plow price, and if I should be factoring out extra for drift, heavy accumulation, and wet snow or add that on as extra when it applies?


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## chipfondoo (Sep 4, 2017)




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## brandonh98 (Oct 30, 2016)

I made my first bid on a similar situation just this month. For 22 town homes and the road I was at $850/event from 0-4". These 22 units have VERY short driveways and everything is flat (rare for my area). For the road I didn't know what do to so I used google earth to measure the road and charged $1/yard. Right or wrong that's what I did. I use a 1.3333x with four inch brackets (0-4, 4-7 etc). Plowing with a jeep wrangler...


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## brandonh98 (Oct 30, 2016)

Just to give you a better idea of what I bid on...


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## chipfondoo (Sep 4, 2017)

brandonh98 said:


> Just to give you a better idea of what I bid on...
> View attachment 173169


Thanks for your input. I would charge a average of $40 each drive totaling 560, and the road I can't measure but I have a good guess that is 300-400 yds max. Your bid with what I would put together for a number fall pretty close to each other. The snow accumulation brackets are a good average in my opinion as well. Do make sure you have your brackets at 0-4, 4.1-7, 7.1-10 in your contract instead of 0-4,4-7, and so forth though.


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## chipfondoo (Sep 4, 2017)

brandonh98 said:


> Just to give you a better idea of what I bid on...
> View attachment 173169


Plenty of room to push that snow where ever and no sidewalks make it a bit easier as well for your location.


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## chipfondoo (Sep 4, 2017)

To add to the data, our annual snowfall falls around 40-45 every year.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

brandonh98 said:


> For 22 town homes and the road I was at $850/event from 0-4".


Holy carp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

brandonh98 said:


> I made my first bid on a similar situation just this month. For 22 town homes and the road I was at $850/event from 0-4". These 22 units have VERY short driveways and everything is flat (rare for my area). For the road I didn't know what do to so I used google earth to measure the road and charged $1/yard. Right or wrong that's what I did. I use a 1.3333x with four inch brackets (0-4, 4-7 etc). Plowing with a jeep wrangler...


Any shoveling or just the plowing?

$850 for maybe an hour's worth of work? I could do it in far less, but I'm being conservative.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Agreed, 850.00 is high, if you can get it great.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Any shoveling or just the plowing?
> 
> $850 for maybe an hour's worth of work? I could do it in far less, but I'm being conservative.


I wouldn't need a sponsorship from a starving homeless child in Africa if I moved where this guy is at...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

$450 every time for the road, I gotta raise my prices.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Randall Ave said:


> $450 every time for the road, I gotta raise my prices.


I bet CamelTow could get that in Philly on T/M...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Randall Ave said:


> $450 every time for the road, I gotta raise my prices.


Guys here would shovel it for less than that.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

This might just be me, but if I charge say $40 a driveway, I have included my travel time into that also. If there are 10, 20, 30, whatever, right next to one another travel time isn't required. Those are small drives that take maybe 5 minutes, even after shoveling front walk. I've never used blowers on mowers, but if it takes much longer ditch them and get a plow (maybe even let Mark talk you into a back blade). 

Just my 2 cents. If that's what you need to charge to make a profit, so be it. If that's the case though, you need to somehow lower your overhead or something to compete. If you go out 10 times that's over $20k for the season, and I'd guess you'll push more than that. I'd guess an HOA with 30ish houses didn't budget for $30k a season or more once you figure in saltings.


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## brandonh98 (Oct 30, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Any shoveling or just the plowing?
> 
> $850 for maybe an hour's worth of work? I could do it in far less, but I'm being conservative.


Shoveling is required for a few steps for all 22 units. The picture shown is only 14 of the units. The other 9 are about a block down the road. It's funny you guys all think I quoted too high and I was thinking I lowed balled myself the entire time lol! That must mean I'm pretty close to where I should be.


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## brandonh98 (Oct 30, 2016)

chipfondoo said:


> Thanks for your input. I would charge a average of $40 each drive totaling 560, and the road I can't measure but I have a good guess that is 300-400 yds max. Your bid with what I would put together for a number fall pretty close to each other. The snow accumulation brackets are a good average in my opinion as well. Do make sure you have your brackets at 0-4, 4.1-7, 7.1-10 in your contract instead of 0-4,4-7, and so forth though.


My contract has 0-4, 4-7 etc. I've never had a situation where the snowfall was exactly 4". If it was I would probably take several measurements and use an average. If that average was exactly 4" I'd give the customer the benefit of the doubt.

Thinking about it a little more...If you have 4" in one bracket and then 4.1" as the start of the next bracket, you actually create holes in your bracket. What do you do if you measure 4.05"? I'd just keep it simple and if it ever falls exactly on 4" (for example) give it to the customer.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

brandonh98 said:


> My contract has 0-4, 4-7 etc.


Id love to bill for the zero inch storms.


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## brandonh98 (Oct 30, 2016)

Maclawnco said:


> Id love to bill for the zero inch storms.


LOL!...So would I! I was trying to be generic.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So 2 hours...$425/hour

Let us know if you get it.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So 2 hours...$425/hour
> 
> Let us know if you get it.


And if you do, where you live. Cause I'll be moving.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Maclawnco said:


> Id love to bill for the zero inch storms.


Thats how I make all my money...payup


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Thats how I make all my money...payup


Seasonals....


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So 2 hours...$425/hour
> 
> Let us know if you get it.


And they ask us for advice.


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## chipfondoo (Sep 4, 2017)

JMHConstruction said:


> This might just be me, but if I charge say $40 a driveway, I have included my travel time into that also. If there are 10, 20, 30, whatever, right next to one another travel time isn't required. Those are small drives that take maybe 5 minutes, even after shoveling front walk. I've never used blowers on mowers, but if it takes much longer ditch them and get a plow (maybe even let Mark talk you into a back blade).
> 
> Just my 2 cents. If that's what you need to charge to make a profit, so be it. If that's the case though, you need to somehow lower your overhead or something to compete. If you go out 10 times that's over $20k for the season, and I'd guess you'll push more than that. I'd guess an HOA with 30ish houses didn't budget for $30k a season or more once you figure in saltings.


You make a good point and I feel I can drop them all by $10 based on our loading up and commute to the next. Also my quote on the road I knew was way out of line and I dropped it down to $200. The contract ends up at around 1900/event.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Guess I'm moving to ND if you can get that kind of coin for a 2-3 hours of work. 

I thought the oil thing kind of fell flat when prices dropped...apparently not.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Was gonna sell and retire, nah, I'm moving to ND so I can really buy that private island...

Do they get 400/hr in Atlanta?


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Seasonals....


Those would go for 2500 and 3500 per season respectively in mich.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

chipfondoo said:


> You make a good point and I feel I can drop them all by $10 based on our loading up and commute to the next. Also my quote on the road I knew was way out of line and I dropped it down to $200. The contract ends up at around 1900/event.


I would guess that around here it would go for about a third of what you're bidding. Most of ours are per push though, not event. I did have one last year that was per event, and it was a constant battle with the property owner and myself on not plowing enough or I think I'm plowing too much. I won't do one like that again....


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## brandonh98 (Oct 30, 2016)

I would be willing to bet that chipfondoo is pretty close if that were in my area. Don't forget, those little 1500 sq ft town homes I posted a picture of cost close to $300k.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

brandonh98 said:


> I would be willing to bet that chipfondoo is pretty close if that were in my area. Don't forget, those little 1500 sq ft town homes I posted a picture of cost close to $300k.


If either of you land those jobs please let me know. Profit percentages would be in the 100s++. I honestly hope you guys get them, but odds will be against you with those prices. Good luck to ya both.


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## brandonh98 (Oct 30, 2016)

I'll keep you posted. Let me put in another way and see if it still sounds high. Based on last years snowfall the HOA would be spending $4500 ish for the year for the two roads and 22 units. Last year we had four events between 2-4 inches and one event 4-7 inches. If I average the last three years it's even less ($3900 for the year).


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

brandonh98 said:


> I'll keep you posted. Let me put in another way and see if it still sounds high. Based on last years snowfall the HOA would be spending $4500 ish for the year for the two roads and 22 units. Last year we had four events between 2-4 inches and one event 4-7 inches. If I average the last three years it's even less ($3900 for the year).


Yes it still sounds high. We've had 2 historically low winters in a row, with 3yrs ago being a lighter average winter. Not good winters to be basing prices on, or great winters to base prices on depending on point of view lol. As stated by others, we hope you get them.


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## brandonh98 (Oct 30, 2016)

Freshwater said:


> Yes it still sounds high. We've had 2 historically low winters in a row, with 3yrs ago being a lighter average winter. Not good winters to be basing prices on, or great winters to base prices on depending on point of view lol. As stated by others, we hope you get them.


Damn. I really wanted that contact too. Based on your opinions I'm half tempted to lower my bid. Would it seem unprofessional/despite to do that?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Putting aside your pricing for the time being, how long do you expect this complex to take?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Putting aside your pricing for the time being, how long do you expect this complex to take?


Hey... your not going to pull out that math stuff again are you????


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## brandonh98 (Oct 30, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Putting aside your pricing for the time being, how long do you expect this complex to take?


There is a lot of shoveling and hand spreading salt. I figured 3 hours.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

brandonh98 said:


> There is a lot of shoveling and hand spreading salt. I figured 3 hours.


You really think $600/hour is the going rate in your area? For shoveling? I know, you're plowing and salting too.


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## brandonh98 (Oct 30, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You really think $600/hour is the going rate in your area? For shoveling? I know, you're plowing and salting too.


Where are you getting $600/hr? If I charge $850 and it takes three hours I'm at $280/hr. Which still seems high to me...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

brandonh98 said:


> Where are you getting $600/hr? If I charge $850 and it takes three hours I'm at $280/hr. Which still seems high to me...


Maybe I'm confusing you with the other newbie.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Maybe I'm confusing you with the other newbie.


LOL at least I am not the only one who is mixing these guys up today!


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## brandonh98 (Oct 30, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Maybe I'm confusing you with the other newbie.


LOL!...I would assume the OP would take longer than 3 hours to complete his bid. I think he mentioned he was using walk behind blowers to do the driveways...so maybe 5 hours?...Damn that seems like a long time to be on one block...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> LOL at least I am not the only one who is mixing these guys up today!


I think I'm just going to go back to the Random Thoughts, What did you do today and Craigslist threads.


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