# F-650: Powerstroke or Cat power?



## jakegypsum (Jan 25, 2002)

I am in process of shopping an F-650 Superduty. I am kicking around either the Powerstroke or a Caterpillar diesel engine. Any pro's or con's to either application. The Cat engine seems to be approx $3,500.00 more. Is it worth it? Thanks. Jake.


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

Talk to GeoffD. He knows the run down on these larger Fords. I think he will tell you the Cat is worth the expense.


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

I would go with the Cat,more torque,and longevity.Resale will be way higher on the cat if that is an issue.It is also a MD engine,the Navistar is an LD engine in a MD truck.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

John you got that right.I would also go with the cat if I had to make the choice,one like john said beter resale value and just a better engine for MD use.


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## jakegypsum (Jan 25, 2002)

Thanks Guy's for the reply's. I kind of figured the Cat would be the way to go. I do have Cat's in my heavier trucks and wasn't sure weather the Powerstroke would be good in this lighter application. The cost factor was another thing that I was taking into consideration. A couple more thousand for the Cat vs. the Powerstroke. Probably will have to dig deep. Thanks again. Jake.


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

Part of the formula should be how long are you keeping the truck and how many miles will you put on it in this time? The Powerstroke is basically a throw away motor, but the Cat can be rebuilt, hence the higher price. If you haven't been to Ford-diesel , check them out, there's a section dedicated to 650s and 750s. I've read of guys there with hotshots that have run the powerstroke for 300,000 miles. If you're going to be running at max GVW or more most of the time, the Cat's probably a good idea. If not, the Powerstroke would probably do.


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

Jake, check out this thread


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Jake,and Pelican,from info i see in the TDR,the guys with Dodge's that Hotshot around the country ,in there travels,talk to owners of PSD's that do the same.From what is in the mag,the PSD is usually good for about 425K max when hotshotting.The Cummins in the Dodge is good for 800K-to over 1 million,before they require a rebuild.This is running at 12-25K GCWR every day.All the diesels seem to love to run nonstop,and last much longer on the open road than local driving.Now the Cat is probably going to last at least as long as the 5.9 Cummins,probably longer,since its bigger.Dont forget in an F650,the PSD will not last nearly as long as in a pickup,due to the weight.If you notice you cant get a PSD in the bigger Fords,but the 5.9 Cummins and CAT are in them,that tells you something,the PSD is at its limit in the F650,and while it will work,if you ever want to tow a 10 ton trailer,or sell it,or run loaded every day,your going to regret not buying the CAT.Why put a light duty engine in a medium duty truck.When you look at the unfront price vs power/durability/resale,the Cat makes the most sense for most big trucks.Whichever you choose,you will own a fine truck,and good luck with it.


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## jakegypsum (Jan 25, 2002)

Hey Guy's, I made the move. Had a lot of bugs and other things to work out but finally made a deal and got an F-650 w/ Cat engine on order. The Cat 3126 wound up only being a $900.00 increase over the Powerstroke. Plus, the new salesman I delt with was able to set me with a FIN, (Fleet Identification Number), which then dropped the price of the truck lower than what the original quote was with the Powerstroke. We were also able to make the truck a 2003 instead of 2002. 
I feel much better now. At one point I had visions of not even buying the truck. The truck was an order so I probably will not see it for six weeks. Thanks for all the help. These boards are the best. Jake.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

Jake I was just woundering about that fin #.How did he do that can any one be able to get it how much was the truck and how did you equip it.


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## jakegypsum (Jan 25, 2002)

Cat320, 
My salesman first asked for a VIN number for every vehicle and piece of equipement that we have owned, reguardless it being a current vehicle or one that was traded/sold and if it was a business or personal vehicle. Then, after that, they asked for a list of the vehicles that we still currently have on the road. Doesn't matter what manufacturer or type. You must have 15 pieces or more in operation. Once you receive the FIN, you are eligable for certain commercial discounts that are available at the time of delivery. The only problem with using the FIN was that I was not eligible for 0.0 financing. I purchased a standard F-650, 6 speed trans, CAT 3126 engine, and it does have air-conditioning. This is only a chassis cab. I am transferring my flatbed body and Western plow from my old rig to the new chassis.
Cost of Chassis/Cab $34,600 before applicable taxes.


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

Jakegypsum, just how much is the fleet discount? In '97 when I bought my F-350 the salesman said he was giving me the "Fleet discount" which amounted to $300 on a $26,000 invoice. I don't know how he pulled it off, I don't own anywhere near 15 vehicles, I didn't ask questions. I bought it down in North Carolina because he was $2500 less than local dealers, it was delivered locally. The local dealer asked to see the invoice, raised his eyebrows and shook his head, he wasn't too happy. $2500 is $2500 though!


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## jakegypsum (Jan 25, 2002)

Pelican01, It all depends on the peticular time that you make the purchase. Different discounts can be available depending on the time of purchase. You need to get a Fleet Identification Number in order to obtain the discounts. It could be anywhere between $300.00 to $4,500.00. At least that's what I have come across. 

The only thing is that you do have to give up some other options. That is, for me I am not eligable for the 0.0 finance option because of commercial application. It kind of makes me think that they will get ya one way or another but an incentive is an incentive reguardless of what the option is. You just got to make it work. Jake.


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## jakegypsum (Jan 25, 2002)

Pelican01, One last thing.
Your Darn right $2,500.00 is $2,500.00. When I purchased a Ford Explorer back in 94' and financed it for three years, I compared the finance charges of Ford to my bank. Ford offered the cheapest rate compared to my bank. When I signed the papers, the Ford Credit rep at the dealership originally wrote me up at a higher rate after being quoted lower. I got upset. The man said, "hey, it's only $25.00 more a month". I said, "Hey, That could be a dinner or anything else that would cost $25.00 a month". 
At first he didn't budge. Then, he saw that I was serious and came back to the original quote. Heck, why quote somebody something and then change. I was upset because both myself and my wife really were happy to buy this peticular Explorer but I was ready to let it go and start form scratch. It could have cost me a little mor plus extra aggravation but I am not going to deal with a "J.O." who is going to renig on something already quoted. Jake.


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

> _Originally posted by John DiMartino _
> *I would go with the Cat,more torque,and longevity.Resale will be way higher on the cat if that is an issue.It is also a MD engine,the Navistar is an LD engine in a MD truck. *


I know this thread was started some time ago but I haven't been able to keep up what with work and all.

Actually, the Navistar engine is for MD's. When they are used in MD applications they are reconfigured for more hp and torque. Remember, it is only the short block and a few other misc. components that are built or supplied by Navistar. The rest is entirely supplied by Ford. I believe the Powerstroke offered in the 650 and up has different ratings.

I am not sure but aren't many full size school busses powered by Navistar 7.3L turbo diesels?


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

Plow Meister, you're correct, many school buses are equipped with the 7.3 and it is available in the 4700 series as well. I know of a guy who hauls lumber on a 4700 with this motor and asked him about it. He had run 150,000 miles with no problems. As I tried to point out earlier, each case should be looked at individually for the suitability of this motor vs. the cost of a heavier duty motor.

Many landscaping trucks I see don't rack a bunch of miles up, many have the cabs falling off with only 125,000 on them. What sense does it make to purchase a motor that costs an additional $5000 in this case? If your hauling mulch 80% of the time, this motor would work well too. I'll admit, if I were buying the truck in question here, I'd opt for the Cat because I haul gravel more often than not, but there *are* cases where the Powerstroke or 7.3 would be a better choice economically.


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