# Residential plowing questions...



## TSG (May 18, 2001)

Hello everyone. 

Let me start by saying that up until this point I have not offered snow plowing services...

I have been approached by several of my lawn care clients asking if I will be snow plowing. My answer was and still is.. "I'm not sure?" I have told them that if I do plow that I would need a commitment from them... not "can I call you when the big one hits type plowing service?" I explained to them that a commitment meant that I would need about a $100 deposit (3 pushes worth) and there would be a 3" minimum visit. I am finding that most will not commit to this. They only want someone to plow if it's say 12 inches or more. 

Any advice on how to get them to commit? Do you guys ask for a deposit? Is a non refundable deposit out of the question?

Thanks for any help.


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## CPSS (Mar 15, 2002)

You could start out with charging them per push. Have them sign a contract, show up at 3" and plow them, send them a bill. They might be more willing to give you a try this way rather than giving you $100 for an unproven service. Next year when they have been happy with your plowing, you can then solicit the annual contract price.


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## Eyesell (Nov 7, 2003)

TSG,

I plowed for my brother in law several years ago and now have decided to start back into it myself as a "newby", but most his customers were charged by the length of there driveway with a 2" trigger and he never got any complaints. If the drive was I think 25' one price, over 25' another price ( examples only ) but this is the formula I am using. Anyway, good luck, let us know what ya decide. :waving:


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## J HIsch (Nov 13, 2003)

*Plowing residental*

We charge the same for residental as we do commercial

60.00 per drive... period when it snows we dont have time to play the pricing game with people. They want out or they dont.


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## classicman (Dec 3, 2003)

A little off-subject but based on my experiences over the years I'd bag Carrol County residentials and invest in two things... the drive time to Potomac, MD. and a Haines reverse index. I plowed there in the 90's and my last recollection was after 5 straight days had checks flying out of the truck and did not care... Go see the guys at Potomac Amoco at River and Falls Road. The residents call there as a sort of clearinghouse to get their driveways and streets plowed... too important to wait on the county, and will pay what it takes to get it done... residential mecca.


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## mjandrew (Jan 15, 2003)

I always treat residentials as fill-ins for my routes, or when I am finished with my commerical routes. They don't want to pay alot, and they never want to see me unless there is at least 4" on there driveway.

You may just want to sub the work out and take a percent for you time and effort?

Michael
Gaithersburg, MD


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## jiriki87 (Aug 26, 2003)

You guys are killing me on the pricing you ask for. In Steamboat Springs, CO I get underbid and out bid with my 2000 F-350, Boss 8.2 V nose, my 91' F-250 with a 8 foot Western and my 2003 Cat 262, with Blizzard 810SS plow on it. I have residentails that start at 10 dollars and go up to 40 dollars per plowing event- 4 inches of snow. The 40 dollar drive is rougly 1/4 mile long and uphill most of the time. Towards the end of the winter I'll have piles up to the mirrors on my F-350 going down the driveway. If I plow these accounts effiecently I can make close to 70-75 dollars per hour. 
Supply and demand for overall snow fall. I'll plow 20-30 times this year if it's a good year. 
Anyways I used to live beside UVA in Virginia and now that it doesn't snow that often I know people charge upwards of 100 dollars to plow out residental drives. Someone came to a friends house last year in VA attempting to plow 8 inches of snow. It took the guy 45 minutes to clear one path down a 300 ft long driveway. I would make about 5 bucks out in colorado if I plowed like that. 

F-350 with studs, and chains with 800 lbs weight, diesel, in low on my 6 speed will push a ***** load of snow. When you look in front of the truck and see snow 8 feet in front of you in the v position, that's some plowing.

Well just my two cents worth, hope the plowing in VA and MD go well this season.

Peter


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## gpin (Dec 5, 2003)

Residential work is tough on equipment and short on return. It helps to give a little "value added" services like getting close to the garage and a little shovel work on the walks. I am a commercial GC and I do my major customers driveways (after the commercial work) at no charge. I find that the goodwill is worth more than the $40. Another tip: Network with other local plow contractors and help each other out. I pulled a competitor off a lump of snow last year, he offered me $100, didn't take it, he put a commercial account my way and has called me to update his new cell # if I ever need help.

As for Steamboat Springs, Co, your competition is a trust fund kid looking for something to do so he can justify his existance to his parental units. Tough to compete. I'm sure Vail and Beaver Creek suffer from the same syndrome.


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## Fredeboy (Dec 12, 2003)

i see some guys pricing $40 some $60 a driveway and so on and so forth. how do you break the storm up. do you go every three inches or every four inches. residential pricing seems so confusing. i'm trying to find the best way myself. i too have my landscape accounts and now they want me to do their driveways. someone help.


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## gpin (Dec 5, 2003)

No matter how you $ your work, it's easier on your equipment to plow every 3-6 inches. If you wait until the storm is over and you have 10", you are more likely to do some major damage or get stuck and then do some damage trying to rock it out.


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## dmontgomery (Oct 3, 2003)

I get $25 for single width driveway 25' long......it just goes up from there.....

I don't do many though.......just 3 today.......

Derek


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

I see some of these low prices for residential drives and dont quite understand why people charge so little. We have a minimum charge for a service call of $75.00. For anything , especially snowplowing. Call the maytag man out to repair an appliance, call a plumber, call a HVAC serviceman . You are going to pay $ 75.00 for the initial visit. Now they are using hand tools , to me a truck wih a plow becomes equipment. We sell a service , we come to their home in some of the worst conditions , late at night, work with fatigue , to clear snow. Another way to put it is disaster relief. For 10 bucks , 30 bucks , I dont think so. When you start figuring what you are making also figure in the time to prep the trucks, repair the equipment, take the plows back off, wash off the salt, etc. The fastest way to make a new truck old is to plow snow with it. We get stopped all the time to do driveways , the customer offers us 20 bucks, I look at the driveway ask him how long it will take him to shovel it , the adverage response is 4 hours. I ask them if 4 hours of THEIR time is worth 20 bucks or 75.00 I get a contract signed 3 out of 4 times. I got into snowplowing in 1981 the minumim charge was $ 50.00 . Parking lots I was getting 100.00 per push at 3 in are now $ 350.00 plus salt. I am aware pricing varies as to location but I know that a new plow is about the same price where ever you go.


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## BLinindoll (Nov 7, 2003)

Wow, Mdirrigation, you don't have a problem with lowballers? Looks like your makin the payup


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

I realy dont have a problem with competition, theres no way a business can compete with a guy plowing for beer money. Snowplowing is part of my business and wih normal buiness expenses , I just cant see sending a $ 20.00 an hour man out in a $20,000.00 truck with a $3000.00 plow and a $ 1500.00 salt spreader for an adverage of 25.00 per driveway.


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## gpin (Dec 5, 2003)

Matt is right. Don't worry about the low ballers because they will eventually let the customer down. Sell your service not a single push on a driveway. Sell the fact that your equipment is fresh or that you have back up equipment. What does it cost the customer if you don't get the snow cleared? Or if they shovel the driveway and it takes 4 hours AND they pull a muscle or throw their back out or have the big one? $75 is a gift if presented to the customer favorably.


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## dmontgomery (Oct 3, 2003)

If the "lowballer" comments were directed at me..... thats fine, I'm sure you feel better now....

As far as the service I provide...the only reason I have a plow is because I own apartments and I am not about to pay what you "non-lowballers" want to plow it...

Secondly, I only offer the service to my lawn customers, who already know I am a fulltime Firefighter/Paramedic with an odd work schedule. Therefore...they know I will handle they work.....it may just be a little later than a fulltime plow operator....

Thirdly.....it took me all of 20 minutes to do the 3 drives I did the other morning...... I am pretty happy with $225.00 per hour. Especially since I was not counting on the money and I don't need it to feed my kids.

Finally.....there are very few doing residential snow removal in my area......I think because for the last 10 years before last year we got very little.

oh yeah....

I am licensed, insured (GL policy) and an LLC......

Derek
DRM Ventures, Ltd


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## gpin (Dec 5, 2003)

My apologies on the lowballing. I forgot that this was a residential topic. I'm more concerned w/ my commercial office and industrial work that starts at 2 acre lots and goes over ten acre lots, with sidewalks, steps, firescapes. I'm with you on the residential work. I take care of older folks in my neighborhood and charge along the same lines as above for "normal" driveways.


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## edshipp19 (Dec 14, 2002)

I grew up in Potomac and can honestly say there is lots of money to be made there. Now i live in McLean VA, and its the same thing. Back in highschool i can remember doing drives during the big storm in 97 in my old blazer and getting $300 for a 200ft u-shaped drive. I wouldn't never even consider plowing for some of the rates you guys talk about.


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## dmontgomery (Oct 3, 2003)

I understand all you guys with the big overhead, etc..... But those of us with very little overhead can offer a service to people who won't or can't afford to pay 2 or 3 times what I charge. None of my customers that I plow live in houses worth more than $150K...

I will never get into commercial plowing.....just because of my work schedule, and the equipment requirements....I have a small vehicle and plow that are suited to small jobs.

I also look at the plowing as a customer service benefit for my lawn customers who pay me very well during lawn season. 

I would be very surprised if I was hurting anyone business by running mine.

Derek
DRM Ventures, Ltd.


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## classicman (Dec 3, 2003)

*To the fella that used to live in Potomac*

I used to run Potomac Amoco. If I were to tell the stories from that place, the rest of these guys would think I was b.s.ing. 
A couple of my regular plowing custs:

Sugar Ray Leonard
Maria Shriver/Arnold Shwartznegger
Ted Allbritton (ABC)
Ted Koppel
Hugh Sidey ( Time Magazine)
Wonder Woman (Forgot her real name)
Oliver North
Reagan's Vice President
etc. etc.

Best residential on the planet, (L.A. don't snow)

I hope you weren't one of those kids that mommy and daddy kept the credit card in our care 'cause they didn't trust their own kid... (literally hundreds of parents did that)

My minimum on a residential in Potomac was 350.00 and had a whole legal tablet (using every other line per) filled every time it snowed- PLUS couldn't service those because of the flag downs, literally getting 5-10 of those for every one of the folks on the list. Avenel was the best-- all doctors, lawyers, small/gig business owners. I think some of these driveway equivalents are getting plowed for five bucks (at least from one poster)... like I said, no one's gonna beleive me, but it is what it is.

I disagree about the McLean thing-- only because a) those folks have more sense of normalcy, + more options . They only get smeared, not raped.

payup


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## edshipp19 (Dec 14, 2002)

Classicman When did you run it? i used to get gas there all the time. I won't say anything about the credit card thing, but I did go to Bullis. Needless to say most of my friends had a personal driver until they turned 16, then came the BMW or lifted wrangler. And i disagree about McLean, but then again I am also including Great Falls


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## classicman (Dec 3, 2003)

I left there in '95. I went to work for Craven Tire & Auto as a service manager from there. The problem I saw with trying to plow Great Falls & McLean was all the guys coming from Woodbridge, etc. They never seemed to make it over the river in significant numbers.


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## jiriki87 (Aug 26, 2003)

Pricing all over the country is obviously different. My question is, Do you guys in NOVA honestly feel morally good about yourselves charging someone 150-350 dollars to plow a 250 foot long circular driveway? I'm not sure if I could look at myself in the mirror if a customer handed me a check for 8-10 minutes of my time. I too have over 90 grand in trucks and equipment, but I charge appropriate rates in my opinion. I repeat customer year after year gives me piece of mind. My happy customers turn into happy painting customers in the summer. 
I'm just stating an opinion, so don't get into a Sunday afternoon fury.

Peter


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

Plowing is a service , and you charge what the market will bear, If thats $200 for a driveway great. If its 25 and you are happy with that ,great . We have a minimum charge of $ 75.00 to drop the plow and go up from there.


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## edshipp19 (Dec 14, 2002)

Umm yeah i feel fine about it. These are people making millions and millions of dollars a year.


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## rainair (Nov 11, 2003)

*min pricing*

it must be nice to get 200.00 a drive/push. In the Dayton-Springfield Ohio area we have too many guys looking for beer  money, or a const. co just looking to keep the truck on the payroll. or a "fbn" lawn service charging any buddy $25.00 just to get business. 
to drop my plow it starts at $35 in list, on call $50. hail-down $125.00 plus salt or de-iceing if used


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## ih82plow (Dec 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mdirrigation _
> *I see some of these low prices for residential drives and dont quite understand why people charge so little. We have a minimum charge for a service call of $75.00. For anything , especially snowplowing. Call the maytag man out to repair an appliance, call a plumber, call a HVAC serviceman . You are going to pay $ 75.00 for the initial visit. Now they are using hand tools , to me a truck wih a plow becomes equipment. We sell a service , we come to their home in some of the worst conditions , late at night, work with fatigue , to clear snow. Another way to put it is disaster relief. For 10 bucks , 30 bucks , I dont think so. When you start figuring what you are making also figure in the time to prep the trucks, repair the equipment, take the plows back off, wash off the salt, etc. The fastest way to make a new truck old is to plow snow with it. We get stopped all the time to do driveways , the customer offers us 20 bucks, I look at the driveway ask him how long it will take him to shovel it , the adverage response is 4 hours. I ask them if 4 hours of THEIR time is worth 20 bucks or 75.00 I get a contract signed 3 out of 4 times. I got into snowplowing in 1981 the minumim charge was $ 50.00 . Parking lots I was getting 100.00 per push at 3 in are now $ 350.00 plus salt. I am aware pricing varies as to location but I know that a new plow is about the same price where ever you go. *


An excellent anology.And I agree with you 100% all these driveways that are being done for what I consider to be free.

The homeowners make a decition that your time is less vauluble then there time.And they would rather be relaxing and have you clear there snow for a cheap price.

Remember they could purchase snow blowers or plows but they know the cost of them and figure if they can find some one who want's to work for free then they would be foolish not to take advantage of it.Its when all the fellow with plows continue to pass the twenty dollar driveways up and explain to the home owners I only plow contract customers and offer them a contract on the spot with a 100.00 or 200.00 deposit .Once this happens eather every one will purchase a plow or alot more contract will be sold.


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## Strongmd (Nov 30, 2000)

Charge what the market will bear, however'

No one here has really discussed density. I'd rather pick up a whole neighborhood at $25/push than only keep 2 or 3 because I was $35/push. There is a good money in a properly routed and priced residential route. You could easily do 20, tightly routed, $25 driveways in one hour. Call it 15/hr if you're taking your time. Either way it's fantastic money and more than you'll generally make commercially. We plow just over 300 residential driveways and average $30-$40/push. I charge whatever I think I can but will gladly lower my price to match someone else if it means I will keep the account and maintain density. We're also able to provide top-notch service with a tight route.


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

Matt thats very true, I would have to add that geographics have a lot to do with this discussion, the residential drives in my area of Maryland only want you on 6 inches and above . The 2 to 3 inchers they just drive on. I am going to guess in your area snow is a lot more frequent than in Maryland . My policy is if you want us to plow we plow them all the easy and the hard , not just the big ones .


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## Strongmd (Nov 30, 2000)

Exactly, you can't just have us for the bad storms. Our policy is to plow if we've received at least 2", or if the town plows. Those are our terms if you want to be considered a regular customer. You can call in for on-call service during a storm, and we will get to you, but it will be more expensive, and after we've finished our regular routes. 

We did 15 complete rotations with 10 storms last winter. I'd say the average winter is 8 storms and 10 rotations? 

One issue here is that you could have a couple real small storms, but if it never gets above freezing, it's sets a bad precedent for your driveway for the rest of the winter. That's why many people also don't mind getting charged on small storms.


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## ih82plow (Dec 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dmontgomery _
> *If the "lowballer" comments were directed at me..... thats fine, I'm sure you feel better now....
> 
> As far as the service I provide...the only reason I have a plow is because I own apartments and I am not about to pay what you "non-lowballers" want to plow it...
> ...


Derek if your math is correct 225.00 for your hours work divided by 3 drives way equals 75.00 a drive way so I doupt they are considering you a lowballer.

But unless the drive ways were right next to each other I do think you might be under in your time frame to perform the services.but eather way if you were on the site for around twenty minute each drive and your getting 75.00 a push Your definatly not working for free.

And as for your apartments why dont you hire one of the guys from this site who are charging 20 dollars a plow.Or better yet continue to colect the 75 from your customers and subcontract the 20.00 dollar guys to do the work for you.

I aplaud you for having the energey after a full time job as you have stated to still go out to maintain lawns and plow


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## classicman (Dec 3, 2003)

Those folks in Potomac want for nothing except time... To them, it is a priority to be able to get out of their home, and that usually includes plowing public roadways. Many are Physicians that have to get to hospitals, others are the rich and famous. To put it in some perspective, in the mid nineties a whole subdivision was built where a car was included with your home purchase... A Rolls Royce Silver Spur-- Those cars have been demoted from owner's cars, to the kids car, to the housekeepers car. A wife of a very affluent person paid me 500.00 per hour to sit and eat soup with her, her daughter, and the butler. I advised her that I couldn't just sit there, that my time was very valuable at the moment. She asked me what I thought I was making per hour, I told her I thought about 350. She said, "Hell, I pay my therapist twice that- have a seat" I sat there for three hours in a driving blizzard, pager going ballistic, long table, them at one end, me at the other, and chatted. She wrote me a check for 1900. 400 for snow removal, 1500 for eating some of the finest soup I have ever had.
Her husband and her have to keep an address book in the car... not for other people's addresses, but for the various homes they own throughout the world. Bottom line, they demand extraordinary service from people they trust, and when they get that service, they will pay handsomely for it.


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## Ground Master (Feb 11, 2002)

jiriki87- do you really only average 70 to 75 an hour with your 90,000 dolllars worth of equipment? If so, you are tremendously underbiding yourself. It seems the cost of living in steamboat springs would warrant at least double that.


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

There will be people who cant afford your service. I usually hear the whining about price by the customers with the mercedes and lexus in the garage and the half a million dollar home . That is why they have those things. Someone will always charge less than you , some will charge more thats the nature of business .
How long are the cheap or lowballers out there. I dont want all the work ,I want the profitable work . I can have all the free work that I want.


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## elite1 (Dec 30, 2003)

I will only plow an account if they sign up on a contact. Most 30 (of 38) customers will sign up on our pay per push contacts.

They work like this. 2 inch min and a 5 inch max
If the snow fall is greater than 2 inches when it is done snowing we will plow. If it snows more than 5 inches we come at 5 inches and again until it stops. They pay based on the number of times it gets pushed.

If they aurgue about being plowed multiple time's, I explain to them that if I only plowed them one time it would take much longer, be harder on equiptment, and I would charge more any way.

As fare as those "can I call you" -yes I will plow you but only after all my accounts are plowed (8-10hrs) and you have to pay for travel time ($80.00 per hr.) as well as any other costs, overtime for the driver if needed. Remeber It doesn't matter what your charge as long as it is worth it.


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