# Anyone ever do this with a spreader??



## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

I will be buying a used Airflo spreader at the end of the season. It is my unlces. The motor on it is shot. It is a B&S. I was thinking about putting a small diesel on it. Like a KD440 Kohler Diesel.

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/productDetail.htm?productNumber=KD440

If anyone has done this before please share how it worked for you. To me i think it will be great. But then again if it was so great i dont know why i never seen it.

This is the spreader i will be buying.


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## procut (Dec 1, 2004)

I don't really see the advantage, plus a lot of times diesels don't like cold.


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

wtf would you want to run a diesel? if anything go electric


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

procut;988934 said:


> I don't really see the advantage, plus a lot of times diesels don't like cold.


Well diesel will last longer. Plus it will use less fuel as the gas motor. So less times i got to get out to re-fuel. Better warranty and newer diesels don't seem to care about the cold. But if it did ain't nothing alittle starter fluid cant fix.

It seems diesels have alot less problems then gas motors. Talking about small motors. Small gas motors have carbs to were the small diesel is fuel injection. Overall i just think the diesel would be better. But like i said if it was so great the spreader companys would put them on right from the factory.

I have to find a price out. They could cost a ton of money thats why they don't do it.



BSDeality;988940 said:


> wtf would you want to run a diesel? if anything go electric


Im not a fan of electric. I will put another Gas motor on it before i go electric.


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

Mackman;988951 said:


> Well diesel will last longer. Plus it will use less fuel as the gas motor. So less times i got to get out to re-fuel. Better warranty and newer diesels don't seem to care about the cold. But if it did ain't nothing alittle starter fluid cant fix.
> 
> It seems diesels have alot less problems then gas motors. Talking about small motors. Small gas motors have carbs to were the small diesel is fuel injection. Overall i just think the diesel would be better. But like i said if it was so great the spreader companys would put them on right from the factory.
> 
> ...


The spreader or other components will die long before the diesel does. last I checked you couldn't buy a new spreader sans a motor. you will never get a ROI on a diesel engine in a salt spreader motor unless you're spreading for a week straight at a time. Diesels are meant to be run for long periods of time. I think you plow roads right? I guess you run it longer than the average lot-jockey but still There are a lot of times when its just going to be riding around not running. are you really wasting time filling it up? I think i top off my spreader once every 4 storms.

why not electric? the torque of an electric motor is huge. its a big misconception that they don't work well for "commercial" applications. I wish my spreader was electric, when the 10.5hp B+S dies, I'll be swapping in a 1hp electric unit.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

BSDeality;988967 said:


> The spreader or other components will die long before the diesel does. last I checked you couldn't buy a new spreader sans a motor. you will never get a ROI on a diesel engine in a salt spreader motor unless you're spreading for a week straight at a time. Diesels are meant to be run for long periods of time. I think you plow roads right? I guess you run it longer than the average lot-jockey but still There are a lot of times when its just going to be riding around not running. are you really wasting time filling it up? I think i top off my spreader once every 4 storms.
> 
> why not electric? the torque of an electric motor is huge. its a big misconception that they don't work well for "commercial" applications. I wish my spreader was electric, when the 10.5hp B+S dies, I'll be swapping in a 1hp electric unit.


Yes i do plow roads. On my run that i do it will take around 6-7 loads in a 1.8 yard spreader. Have to fill up around every 3-4 loads. So 2 fill-ups. Sometime we will spread more then that depending on the storm.

The reason im not a fan of electric is cuz i dont really know anything about them. Plus on a gas or small diesel i can work on them my self. To wear as electric i would be lost. Im not saying electric is junk. I just want to stick with what i know. We have a small diesel tractor we use to cut my grass. 1.5 ac er. It starts once every week and runs for about 1hr. That motor has gave me zero problems. It is a small kubota tractor. It sits all winter and will fire right up in the spring. That why i think a small diesel will work good.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

One problem i just ran into. Is the shaft. I need a vertical shaft. All the shafts for the kohler diesel are Horizontal. That may be why spreader companys never used them.

Edit Found one
http://www.hatz.com/index.php?id=72&L=1.

Never seen a Hatz diesel before. Anyone ahve and input on these??


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

Mackman;988998 said:


> One problem i just ran into. Is the shaft. I need a vertical shaft. All the shafts for the kohler diesel are Horizontal. That may be why spreader companys never used them.


I was just thinking the same thing. I don't think I've ever seen a vertical shaft diesel.

Most small diesels run $600-1000 too. gas could be redone for $300. electric a little more.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Electric is the way to go. Like underhood plow pumps, gas engines on spreaders will be a thing of the past.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

2COR517;989013 said:


> Electric is the way to go. Like underhood plow pumps, gas engines on spreaders will be a thing of the past.


Maybe......

BTW i was told the reason why under hood plow pumps are a thing of the past is cuz in todays trucks they leave no room to mount a pump.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

BSDeality;989009 said:


> I was just thinking the same thing. I don't think I've ever seen a vertical shaft diesel.
> 
> Most small diesels run $600-1000 too. gas could be redone for $300. electric a little more.


You are right about redoing the gas for 300. I was just kicking the idea around about a small diesel. Im still going to look into.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

If I was buying a new small engine and I wanted the best, I would go Honda. Then never worry about the engine part of that spreader again.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

2COR517;989013 said:


> Electric is the way to go. Like underhood plow pumps, gas engines on spreaders will be a thing of the past.


Couldnt agree more with this statement.

Mackman, if your handy at working on gas/diesel motors.....an elec. unit will be a breeze for you.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

I know guys who have gone thru honda's in a couple years...

I like the diesel idea, if it starts... You could still run the Kohler and just put a angle gearbox on it... but then it all comes down to how much do you want to spend..


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

Triple L;989029 said:


> I know guys who have gone thru honda's in a couple years...
> 
> I like the diesel idea, if it starts... You could still run the Kohler and just put a angle gearbox on it... but then it all comes down to how much do you want to spend..


This is true. Well i will be getting it cheap. like 500 bucks cheap. So i got some room to spend money. Im sure you can fab something up. I will be doing alot of research on this idea. Please everyone give me your 2cents.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Triple L;989029 said:


> I know guys who have gone thru honda's in a couple years...
> 
> I like the diesel idea, if it starts... You could still run the Kohler and just put a angle gearbox on it... but then it all comes down to how much do you want to spend..


Sure you do!


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Triple L;989029 said:


> I know guys who have gone thru honda's in a couple years...
> ..


One problem with the Hondas is that they need to have the fuel shutoff when the engine is not running. They really should include the electric shutoff when installed on a spreader. It's a hundred bucks to add it on afterwards, probably 25 bucks if originally speced out.


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## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

Since your truck is diesel as well, you should be able to run a fuel line right off your truck tank, with a disconnect, and a shut off on it for when you remove the sperader from the bed. Then you would never have to get out to fill the spreader engine. That would be pretty easy to do I would think.


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## Evanbrendel (Jan 2, 2010)

http://www.kubotaengine.com/products/oc/oc95_e3.html i personaly prefer kubota diesel engines in generators or in small tractors here is a link to a good engine i dont know what your hp and rpm requirements are tho. just my opinion also. http://www.kubotaengine.com/products/oc/oc95_e3.html


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## keitha (Dec 30, 2001)

I work on small engines and I have seen thirty year old B&S Snow engines 
(yes these are on snow blowers and get the wet but not as much salt) run flawless.
Is it the engine thats shot? Do/ get a leak down test to confirm. 
Is it a problem with bad wiring?
Most small engines with proper maint.including proper storage and 
off season precautions to "preserve" the carburetor/ fuel system
should typically last the life of a spreader.
Sta-bil (used according to the directions, more is not better) and Sea- Foam fuel treatment seem to work well for me.
Thank so much to re formulated eathanol added fuels for the problems they create!!

Keith


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## outdoorsol (Jan 5, 2010)

replaced the motor on our air flo this fall it was four years old engine still ran great but was so corroded when we went to replace starter rvrthing started to fall apart it was cheaper to abuy a new one than rebuld old one. spreader is stored inside year round and is washed every week during the season,but still havent found good way to stop corrosin from the 150 tons of salt it spreads per season ( gonna try coating it with fluidfilm this year)


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

WIPensFan;989025 said:


> If I was buying a new small engine and I wanted the best, I would go Honda. Then never worry about the engine part of that spreader again.


I'm a big honda believer but my dealer said he hardly ever specs spreaders with hondas. prone to flooding and parts are expensive when they start rotting away. Cheaper to just replace the motor than to replace more than a few parts.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

BSDeality;989453 said:


> I'm a big honda believer but my dealer said he hardly ever specs spreaders with hondas. prone to flooding and parts are expensive when they start rotting away. Cheaper to just replace the motor than to replace more than a few parts.


Plus they cost more initially.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

i don't know why the big hate on for gas engines, i personally like the gas engine that comes with my vbox. not that i am opposed to the electric, but i well say one thing, i always get nervous whenever i am hooking heavy drawing equipment to my electrical system on my newer trucks. last thing i want to be doing is tracking down a sensor/computer issue in a new chevy pickup.


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## mvhauler (Jan 26, 2009)

Mackman,

Deisel... I like the idea of something unique, but I see a lot of obstacles. Running out of fuel (bleeding injectors), possiblity of extra gearboxes, extra weight vs. gas, can you still use the original in cab controller, spreader battery needs replaced every 2-3 years, will it all fit in the enclosure ?

Gas... Would be simpler to replace, still need battery, regular maintenance issues, noise (as with diesel as well), I would recommend Honda.

Electric... Quiet. minimal weight, very minimum maintenance, no starting engines...ready to go at any time, power draw not excessive.

Myself, I have an affection for the simpler things...handsaws, brace and bits, points ignition. For a long time I had a 350, 4 speed 1 ton. Easy to work on and understand, but I lumbered down the road. Now I have a newer pickup with an automatic. No more pulling hills in 2nd gear. Had a gas V-box (8.5 briggs) for many years. Fortunately, was a pretty trouble free unit. This year I decided to go electric. Something that was new to me, as far as sander power is concerned. Very happy with the decision. 
Technology is advancing rapidly. Change is sometimes difficult. As businessmen, I believe we need to explore these advancements in order to keep up with the times, lest we get left behind. 
I would urge you to look at electric, at least check it out. I don't think the cost would be much different from the other options.


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## sno commander (Oct 16, 2007)

i priced out air-flow's last year and the honda engine option was 450 bucks over the briggs. i have had good luck with hondas but the parts are expensive. i guess ill just stick with my cheap briggs.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

So you spreading 12 ton /storm through a Vbox doing roads? Sounds painfull. I'd go with an underood belt driven hydraulic pump. Our 01 has had one on it since new and it's been flawless (touch wood). With hydro you don't have an expense for fuel or another motor to maintain.


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## LON (Aug 20, 2006)

we did diesels on Henderson FSP probably 15 years ago for the City of DuBois and their still running today. The diesel engine ran a single pump that flowed through an electronic dual knob spreader control valve. Had a single wire run into the cab to turn the valve on/off. Sweet set-up!


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt spreader diesel engine swap*



Mackman;988914 said:


> I will be buying a used Airflo spreader at the end of the season. It is my unlces. The motor on it is shot. It is a B&S. I was thinking about putting a small diesel on it. Like a KD440 Kohler Diesel.
> 
> http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/productDetail.htm?productNumber=KD440
> 
> ...


Hatz Diesel engines has 1 vertical model available using pressurised lubrication

which is the HATZ Supra 1D81/90V

and available with 50 percent or one hundred percent balancing.

It is available with either hand crank or electric start.

All the hand crank start diesels have tremendous torque developed by the hand cranks starters due to the crank gearing and are easy to start because of it.

I will provide some GDF drawings for you


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*Hatz Vertical shaft diesel engines*

Please find several GDF drawing herein.:waving:

I was unable to up load the .GDFdrawingings but I will gladly forward them to any of you that wished to see them.

The Hatz Diesel dealer network is available from the (www.hatzUSA.com) web page


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*Hatz diesels*



leon;989575 said:


> Please find several GDF drawing herein.:waving:
> 
> I was unable to up load the .GDFdrawingings but I will gladly forward them to any of you that wished to see them.
> 
> The Hatz Diesel dealer network is available from the (www.hatzUSA.com) web page


The hatzUSA and Hatz germany home pages have complete information avaailable on the engines. I would have posted it here for you but the files are too large I tried doenloading the gerna files but it did not work/files corrupted damaged etc.

I will see if I can down load the american Hatz files for our use.

The vertical shaft diesel engine models are

1B27/30/40/50

1D81/90


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*hatz drawings*



leon;989656 said:


> The hatzUSA and Hatz germany home pages have complete information available on the engines. I would have posted it here for you but the files are too large I tried downloading the german files but it did not work/files corrupted damaged etc.
> 
> I will see if I can down load the american Hatz files for our use.
> 
> ...


Here are the first five PDF drawings


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*hatz diesel engines*

More dimensional drawings for the Hatz engines


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*hatz engines*

information about the model 50 hatz engine and 1 D90


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*hatz diesel engines*

Hatz drawings for 30 model


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## UpstateDzlGuy (Dec 22, 2003)

I would have no issue with the diesel. The fuel usage should be pretty good along with power. Just make sure that the fuel is treated like any other application and you should be golden. Chris


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

outdoorsol;989437 said:


> replaced the motor on our air flo this fall it was four years old engine still ran great but was so corroded when we went to replace starter rvrthing started to fall apart it was cheaper to abuy a new one than rebuld old one. spreader is stored inside year round and is washed every week during the season,but still havent found good way to stop corrosin from the 150 tons of salt it spreads per season ( gonna try coating it with fluidfilm this year)


Spray it down with fluid film after every wash.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

If buying a bigger spreading truck and hopper isn't an option, hydraulic or electric are the way to go. Far less maintenance. Less noise. A diesel would be fine if it ran all night, but they aren't meant to be used in short bursts, they like to stay warm. I like the idea of tapping into the trucks fuel system (could easily be done with a gas truck and spreader too) but for the costs and headaches I'd still go hyd or elec.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

Just got back in after the 28.5 in storm. 

Anyone know anything about them Hatz diesels?? The nearest dealer is about 1hr away from me.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

If you don't know about them after Leon's posts, you never will.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

WIPensFan;990908 said:


> If you don't know about them after Leon's posts, you never will.


LOL

Well what i should have said is. Has anyone ever use them for anything and how did they hold up??


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## Snowplow71 (Feb 12, 2008)

Mackman;990910 said:


> LOL
> 
> Well what i should have said is. Has anyone ever use them for anything and how did they hold up??


My asphalt roller has a Hatz in it. The motor is amazing. Sits in the shop all winter and fires up like it is warm in spring. You wouldn't believe the comments I get when its at idle on a job from the older customers 'it sounds like an old John Deere diesel.' Also sips fuel. Kubota is also another great small diesel motor. I've got that on my topsoil screen. It literately SIPS fuel. Best motors I could ever ask for!


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*Hatz diesels*



Mackman;990910 said:


> LOL
> 
> Well what i should have said is. Has anyone ever use them for anything and how did they hold up??


The Hatz Company has been in existance since 1880.

Tthey started producing gasoline engines in 1904, semi diesel engines in 1910 and diesel engines in 1918. They sell a lot of Hatz diesels in the third world for the two wheel tractors which are the backbone of agriculture there for grain mills and generators for the village use to pump water as diesel fuel is much easier to obtain and store in the third world.

They supply a lot of small diesel engines for the contruction trades for wheel barrows and cement mixers, and mobile construction machines as well, they are also direct injected which helps if you run out of fuel.

The quality is equal to Duetz, Lombardini, Lamborgini, Lister, Perkins, Yanmar and many other small diesel engine manufacturers in Europe. :waving:


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## Snowplow71 (Feb 12, 2008)

leon;990962 said:


> The quality is equal to Duetz:


 My bad, this is what my roller has in it. Still, a very good motor choice. Something I own has a Hatz.... Hmmmm


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*Hazt diesel engines*

:wavingad tamper or a self propelled sheeps foot roller from Bomag?


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

You hate large electrical drains on the trucks systems, good thing you dont have a plow on it then.
I mean WTF
Read the numerous posts in this forum about gas to electric and from the factory electric spreaders.
Draws like 60 amps at start up and 30 while running. Quiet and easier to work on than gas or diesel units.
I would imagine the cost of the diesel will be pretty pricey to say the least.
I could convert that spreader to electric for about $ 550.00
I have done 2 this year very easy. Takes about 4 hrs for the spreader and 2 hrs for the truck.
I have a thread on here regarding my ice o way from gas to electric, and I am about to post another of a fisher that I have done and I also did a drop off shute on it.
Dino


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## farmboy555 (Sep 6, 2006)

My Super Duty has a PTO plate on the tranmission. a hyd pump on your trk, small hyd tank, hoses with quick connect fitting's & hyd motor on the spreader is the only way to go. Thats how our farm spreaders operate


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

farmboy555;998749 said:


> My Super Duty has a PTO plate on the tranmission. a hyd pump on your trk, small hyd tank, hoses with quick connect fitting's & hyd motor on the spreader is the only way to go. Thats how our farm spreaders operate


So does mine since it is stick. How much does it cost to get get set-up with hyd??


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

I think the diesel idea is interesting. I always like doing something that others say "cant be done" or " shouldnt be done" . Just my .02:salute:


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

OP 

You can run 2-3 loads out of the box before needing to refueling. So unless your salt /sand loads itself you have to get out of your truck anyways to reload.

It only takes a few minutes of your time to squirt some fuel in and while your at it check the belts and nuts /bolts etc. Wipe your lights and have a stretch and unload some coffee and refill your mug.
A diesel engine would barely even start to get warmed up in the short time it takes to drop a load. This will create problems with sludge in the lube oil which is definetly not good among other things, They work well in tampers, generators etc that run for hours at a time. 

To install on a new salter imo is not cost effective never mind on a used one.

Controls are all different as well, throttle, shut off etc.

The salter will most likely have corroded itself into oblivion long before any fuel savings are realized. 

Oh ya....they are noisy as h.....

With proper care the gas engine should have outlasted the salter anyways. I have units that are 6 seasons old and still run trouble free.
:bluebounc:bluebounc:bluebounc


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

Well this idea is going on the back buner for now. I still think it can be done and work great.

Just picked up a Western Tornado 1,8 cu.yard. With them new hi-tech fancy electric motors


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Try not to shoot a hole in it! :laughing: I saw you bought that one listed on here, good price I think.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

WIPensFan;1003896 said:


> Try not to shoot a hole in it! :laughing: I saw you bought that one listed on here, good price I think.


Yea i think it was a very good price. I called the local dealer here they wanted 5k for a new one. Thats not counting sales tax. The one i bought is just like a new one. All the wires were there and all the books that came with it. So for 3200 for a 3month old spreader that only had 3 loads put in it. I think it was a deal.


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