# Do you offer an End of season refund?



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

In recent weeks I have had a few clients sign on and pay in full. I've priced out services based on 10storms my question is what do the rest of you do at the end of the season if you havent reached the allotment of events for the season what happens to the "unused plow money"? You plan for 10 snow falls but you only got 6 what happens to the other 4payments you still haven't technically earned?


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

kg26;1731086 said:


> In recent weeks I have had a few clients sign on and pay in full. I've priced out services based on 10storms my question is what do the rest of you do at the end of the season if you havent reached the allotment of events for the season what happens to the "unused plow money"? You plan for 10 snow falls but you only got 6 what happens to the other 4payments you still haven't technically earned?


Hell no

Would you ask for more if you got 20 storms on a 10 storm contract?


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## Dondo (Dec 8, 2009)

What you would do if the tables were turned and the season ended with 14 storms? Would you bill for an additional 4 storms? 

If you wouldn't bill for more storms then I wouldn't give a credit for less storms.


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## Dondo (Dec 8, 2009)

Sorry Whiffy I didn't see your comment when I replied.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Dondo;1731099 said:


> Sorry Whiffy I didn't see your comment when I replied.


Dont worry

Someone's going to call it unethical.

Lol


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## allagashpm (Sep 29, 2012)

are you normally per push and they wanted you to gave a seasonal price? Or is it still technically per push but they just paid ahead? If they paid ahead based off you saying probably be 10 storms, I would reimburse them, but if it was a seasonal agreement meaning you said 600 bucks whether 6, 10, or 15 events, then no they don't get anything back. sometimes they win, sometimes you win. If someone wants to pay ahead you could instead just base it off of 3 or four storms, and invoice them again after that.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

kg26;1731086 said:


> In recent weeks I have had a few clients sign on and pay in full. I've priced out services based on 10storms my question is what do the rest of you do at the end of the season if you havent reached the allotment of events for the season what happens to the "unused plow money"? You plan for 10 snow falls but you only got 6 what happens to the other 4payments you still haven't technically earned?


Are they seasonal or not?
Seasonal - you hope it does not snow, they hope it snows allot.

Or are you just pre-billing for 10 snow events?

I just bill by the event, some years are good some not. My "good costumers" get a free plow here and there on the 1/4 inch pain in the azz ones. Makes them feel good to write the check and the end of the month. And I hear about it, "nobody has ever done it for No Charge". On those I would hear about it anyway if I did charge them, this makes them happy and cost very little fuel and about 3 hours of time.


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## springscapes (Feb 16, 2013)

Nope......


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

this is why i don't do seasonal contracts. i don't have to worry about if it snows more than the contract pays me or if it snows less than the contract pays me.

i just invoice at the end of the month for the total number of pushes i did. i get exactly what i earned and the client pays for exactly the work received. 

no over paying, no under paying and certainly NOTHING for free.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

You have a profitable year.

Your in seasonal s
Some years are better some are worse it avenges out.

Does the cable tv co refund you money if you don't watch it?

What do you do if you service said property twice as much and the season is icy
Requiring more investment it salt 
It's harder on your truck and it takes more gas and time.

Your time is worth $ watching the weather, being at the ready 24 /7

Do you get paid more when it snows on your birthday or your kids and you have to be plowing all night missing it?
Holidays?
do they write another check for those days?

No refunds
And the 2nd payment I'd due by Jan1st
For those 2 pay options


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

kg26;1731086 said:


> In recent weeks I have had a few clients sign on and pay in full. I've priced out services based on 10storms my question is what do the rest of you do at the end of the season if you havent reached the allotment of events for the season what happens to the "unused plow money"? You plan for 10 snow falls but you only got 6 what happens to the other 4payments you still haven't technically earned?


Haha, can u return a used gallon of panit ?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I like my per push clients
But on those low snow years it's the seasonal s that
Pay the bills


Nothing unethical or immoral
(Not sure if someone knows the difference or not)
About charging for 10 pushes up front if that's what you did.
I have per push customers too

A seasonal , for the contractor is based in the avg of snow events that meet the trigger depth for a season

So you finger it will take $X to do the drive
It snows Y times a year meeting my trigger depth
It costs Z to accomplish ( with any add ons like shoveling and or salt) 
this, then times 3 that for your cost

Ya need to throw your overhead and what it truly takes to make a living.
(Just a base line some do it differently )

Then Charge $$$$$

Give them a bid for the season from this date to that date unlimited plowing at what ever trigger depth you agree apron.

( not a bad run on sentence) hahaha


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

If you don't use your liability or vehicle or home insurance, do you get a refund?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

What the hell is a refund?


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

We have one seasonal with a "giveback" and its only if we get less than 25% of normal snowfall (est. in contract).....and its a small percentage. Not my game, but i'll play it if that what they require.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

grandview;1731279 said:


> What the hell is a refund?


It's when the bank takes all your crap and you have to find someone else to re fund your life....


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

pre pay yes there is a refund most time its a credit for next month or season


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

Whiffyspark;1731101 said:


> Dont worry
> 
> Someone's going to call it unethical.
> 
> Lol


It depends.



allagashpm;1731115 said:


> are you normally per push and they wanted you to gave a seasonal price? Or is it still technically per push but they just paid ahead? If they paid ahead based off you saying probably be 10 storms, I would reimburse them, but if it was a seasonal agreement meaning you said 600 bucks whether 6, 10, or 15 events, then no they don't get anything back. sometimes they win, sometimes you win. If someone wants to pay ahead you could instead just base it off of 3 or four storms, and invoice them again after that.


Such as this.

Some things are black and white.

Some things are in unlimited shades of gray.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

32vld;1731465 said:


> It depends.
> 
> Such as this.
> 
> ...


My wife loved those books


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

Mark Oomkes;1731208 said:


> If you don't use your liability or vehicle or home insurance, do you get a refund?


Insurance is to take care of financial loss.

Paying seasonal is gambling.

The Bettor/home owner is willing to gamble that paying for six pushes even when he only has three. Is better then not paying for twelve pushes.

The House/contractor is willing to just be paid for doing six pushes because if less then 6 pushes he will be making money hand over fist. And if he has to do twelve pushes that is ok because he knows he will still get paid well for those six extra pushes. Because it is built into their price.

The house always makes money because the odds are stacked in their favor.

Hmmm?

Since when is stacking the odds ethical?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I don't get that, you're charging for 12 times telling the customer you allowed for 6 now..?
Why don't you just say "I'll take care of your snow for the season for XXX$" Keep your formula to yourself and let the customer decide next season whether you were worth it. !!?
I get the almighty "I will be fair to the customer and charge for only what I do" but snow will bankrupt you in a lax year and that potentially disappointed customer will still find someone new next season...cause you were fair to them...and not to yourself


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I guess your missing it.
A seasonal is unlimited plowing. 
It's not charging for 6 and only doing 3.
You pay for 24/7 cable do you watch it 24/7?
But you got charged for 24/7.
the cabel goes out for a day, did ya get that refund?

Figuring the number of events only helps you find a # for the seasonal price or your going in blind.

A highly respected businessman once told me he loves a level playing field, as long as it's tilted in his favor.



32vld;1731501 said:


> Insurance is to take care of financial loss.
> 
> Paying seasonal is gambling.
> 
> ...


so...
the

Association of Family and Conciliation Courts
Interventions for Family Conflict:
Stacking the Odds in Favor of Children

*would be unethical too?*

AFCC is an interdisciplinary and international association of professionals dedicated to
improving the lives of children through the resolution of family conflict

but hes still good as hopefully he use a must be used by date on his coupons?
or they could hold him to the # of plowing/pushes they bought, using them next year.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

I see the way of the Jedi now thank you all. Grandview for the win lol "What the hell is a refund." lol. I've always done it on a per push basis, but this year with the influx of snow some clients really wanted a per season price. I based if off of 10 events figuring we would get more and switch to a per push cycle after the 10 events had passed, making sure they get their 10 services and well I get to keep the deposit. There was no wording in the contract that said if we only get 8 you will receive a refund for the 2. I like the fact that some paid upfront it allows me to have the capital to reinvest in the business If I need to. I bought a rather expensive blower that has really paid off big time, so having a few clients pay in full helped me re-coop the investment in the blower.


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## Mike NY (Feb 2, 2009)

Has anyone used a hybrid system, using a readyness fee per month or season, then a reduced drop rate for each plow?
Ex: 20 plow seasonal average @ $40.00=$800./season.
Customer pays $400. / season readyness fee, plus(reduced rate) $20. / plow?


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

SnoFarmer;1731626 said:


> I guess your missing it.
> A seasonal is unlimited plowing.
> It's not charging for 6 and only doing 3.
> 
> ...


If the OP would of posted this first then this thread would of been a lot shorter.



kg26;1731914 said:


> I see the way of the Jedi now thank you all. Grandview for the win lol "What the hell is a refund." lol. I've always done it on a per push basis, but this year with the influx of snow some clients really wanted a per season price. I based if off of 10 events figuring we would get more and switch to a per push cycle after the 10 events had passed, making sure they get their 10 services and well I get to keep the deposit. There was no wording in the contract that said if we only get 8 you will receive a refund for the 2. I like the fact that some paid upfront it allows me to have the capital to reinvest in the business If I need to. I bought a rather expensive blower that has really paid off big time, so having a few clients pay in full helped me re-coop the investment in the blower.


Why ask us if you should give money back when people asked you for a seasonal price?

Did you tell them that there was a cap when you gave them a seasonal price?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

maybe....



32vld;1732007 said:


> If the OP would of posted this first then this thread would of been a lot shorter.


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## 4-Seasons (Dec 13, 2007)

yardguy28;1731159 said:


> this is why i don't do seasonal contracts. i don't have to worry about if it snows more than the contract pays me or if it snows less than the contract pays me.
> 
> i just invoice at the end of the month for the total number of pushes i did. i get exactly what i earned and the client pays for exactly the work received.
> 
> no over paying, no under paying and certainly NOTHING for free.


Do you charge Per push meaning set price no matter how many inches? Would you push more then once during storm?

We have contacts for snow events with inches plowed. We only plow at end of storm unless over 12inches and wouldn't be able too. 
So basically 1-3inches is a price etc.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

kg26;1731914 said:


> I see the way of the Jedi now thank you all. Grandview for the win lol "What the hell is a refund." lol. I've always done it on a per push basis, but this year with the influx of snow some clients really wanted a per season price. I based if off of 10 events figuring we would get more and switch to a per push cycle after the 10 events had passed, making sure they get their 10 services and well I get to keep the deposit. There was no wording in the contract that said if we only get 8 you will receive a refund for the 2. I like the fact that some paid upfront it allows me to have the capital to reinvest in the business If I need to. I bought a rather expensive blower that has really paid off big time, so having a few clients pay in full helped me re-coop the investment in the blower.


Seasonal I wouldn't refund.

I have customers that I do per visit and they will prepay 10 visits and I only visit 8 times Then there a refund/credit. Some customers will do the same with mowing/lawn care.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

4-Seasons;1735383 said:


> Do you charge Per push meaning set price no matter how many inches? Would you push more then once during storm?
> 
> We have contacts for snow events with inches plowed. We only plow at end of storm unless over 12inches and wouldn't be able too.
> So basically 1-3inches is a price etc.


anything 6" and more is at least a double visit for me depending on how many inches are coming.

each time I come to push snow it's X amount. under 6 inches and it's just a single visit after the storm. so 2-4 inches is a price, 6-8 is a double price and 12 plus is at least a triple price.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

I offer an end of year refund



I refund the same amount that my insurance Co refunds me and my Plow parts people refund me and my truck parts people and my landlord... Shall I go on


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## RUJusten (Dec 3, 2013)

Mr.Markus;1731531 said:


> I don't get that, you're charging for 12 times telling the customer you allowed for 6 now..?
> Why don't you just say "I'll take care of your snow for the season for XXX$" Keep your formula to yourself and let the customer decide next season whether you were worth it. !!?
> I get the almighty "I will be fair to the customer and charge for only what I do" but snow will bankrupt you in a lax year and that potentially disappointed customer will still find someone new next season...cause you were fair to them...and not to yourself


ROGER THAT!!



32vld;1731501 said:


> Insurance is to take care of financial loss.
> 
> Paying seasonal is gambling.
> 
> ...


Don't like the price? Get another estimate or get out there and shovel/push it yourself. This isn't about "stacking the odds" - it's about providing a service and being compensated based on the market/need for the investment my business has made.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

for me it's just about providing a service at a fair price that both I profit from but doesn't gouge the clients pocket books.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

yardguy28;1737972 said:


> for me it's just about providing a service at a fair price that both I profit from but doesn't gouge the clients pocket books.


I prefer the high end of fair.


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## John from OH (Mar 16, 2000)

Anytime I feel the need to give money away, I pick a charity, church, or youth group and write them a check.


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