# Guys doing per push and per inch pricing, HOW THE HECK DO YOU PUSH THAT WAY?!?!?!



## trqjnky

OK, its driving me nuts. the whole price per push/per inch with 1-3,2-5,5-7 etc price scales. 

HOW DO YOU PUSH? BILL THIS METHOD? if its a 6 inch snow, you bill them the 6" price for the whole storm? do you sit on your couch untill every storm is over then go push? i know if i have a 6 inch storm, im out there at 2" or more in time to clear the lot for the business to open and then every 2-4" after that. or for apartments, im clearing it before tenants leave for work and before they come home (i.e. 7am and 4pm). so how would you bill that? as two different 3" pushes (if there was 3" on the ground each time you pushed) or as one 6" push?

EXPLAIN THIS TO ME SO I CAN SLEEP IN PEACE!!!!!!!!


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## Tubby's Snow Plowing

I don't get it either. Seems complicated and prone to disagreement with the customer.


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## grandview

Some places will pay per storm, so 8 inch snow and you plow it 3 times they still only want to pay for 1 8 inch storm. I don't like the inch plowing thing either. If you bill different rates for the same storm they will want to know what's going on.


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## basher

How do you bill by the push If the customer decides he wants you to wait to the storm is over so he only has to pay for one push regardless of amount? Then regardless of snowfall he pays the same thing


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## trqjnky

basher;1322941 said:


> How do you bill by the push If the customer decides he wants you to wait to the storm is over so he only has to pay for one push regardless of amount? Then regardless of snowfall he pays the same thing


you give that account to the hacks in the half ton chevys and let them beat the piss outta their equipment. if you have over 4" coming, its gonna get pushed 2 times. because im not beating on my equipment to move massive amounts of snow at once.


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## Longae29

trqjnky;1322857 said:


> OK, its driving me nuts. the whole price per push/per inch with 1-3,2-5,5-7 etc price scales.
> 
> HOW DO YOU PUSH? BILL THIS METHOD? if its a 6 inch snow, you bill them the 6" price for the whole storm? do you sit on your couch untill every storm is over then go push? i know if i have a 6 inch storm, im out there at 2" or more in time to clear the lot for the business to open and then every 2-4" after that. or for apartments, im clearing it before tenants leave for work and before they come home (i.e. 7am and 4pm). so how would you bill that? as two different 3" pushes (if there was 3" on the ground each time you pushed) or as one 6" push?
> 
> EXPLAIN THIS TO ME SO I CAN SLEEP IN PEACE!!!!!!!!


It's really not that difficult.

If you have a per push contract. You bill what you plow. 1-4, 4-8, 8+ whatever is on the ground when you plow, thats what you charge.

If 7'' falls, and you push 5'' one time, and 2'' the next time, you bill your 4-8, and your 1-4.

If you have a per storm contract. You bill for the total snowfall. 1-4, 4-8, 8+ whatever falls in the 24hr period, thats what you charge regardless of how many times you plow it.

If you have a per season contract, You bill the same thing regardless.

If you have a per hour contract, you probably don't know what you're doing.


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## trqjnky

Longae29;1323026 said:


> It's really not that difficult.
> 
> If you have a per hour contract, you probably don't know what you're doing.


THERES A LOT OF GUYS THAT HAVE BEEN PLOWING SNOW FOR DECADES, SOME OF THEM ON THIS SITE. THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. THIS STATEMENT ANNOYS THE HELL OUTTA ME. I HAVE 2 COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES I BID BY THE HOUR, WHY??? BECAUSE THATS WHAT THEY WANT. THEY LAUGH AT THE GUYS BIDDING ANY OTHER WAY. DUNNO WHY, BUT THEY DO.

I see what your saying though. i dont totally disagree. but thats a broad statement. like everyone from wisconsin is a douschebag cheesehead. when theres plenty of them that are smart enough to be bears fans..........


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## trqjnky

Longae29;1323026 said:


> It's really not that difficult.
> 
> If you have a per push contract. You bill what you plow. 1-4, 4-8, 8+ whatever is on the ground when you plow, thats what you charge.
> 
> If 7'' falls, and you push 5'' one time, and 2'' the next time, you bill your 4-8, and your 1-4.
> 
> .


well, i guess, you must just wait as long as possible to get the highest pay scale push. that seems like it would open up a lot of "youre ripping me off, there wasnt that much snow on the ground" arguments with the person you are plowing for. and what if one section of the lot has 3 inches, and the snows drifted up to 7 inches on the other end of the lot? do you break it down into sections? :laughing:


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## basher

trqjnky;1323030 said:


> I HAVE 2 COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES I BID BY THE HOUR, WHY??? BECAUSE THATS WHAT THEY WANT. THEY LAUGH AT THE GUYS BIDDING ANY OTHER WAY. DUNNO WHY, BUT THEY DO........


That's were you send the trucks with 6'6"inch blades.


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## trqjnky

basher;1323036 said:


> That's were you send the trucks with 6'6"inch blades.


no, i send the craftsman mowers with grain shovels duct taped to the front to those properties!payuppayuppayup

lol. i dont own anything with a blade smaller than 9 ft, i should buy something for hourly lots. a s10 pickup with a 4 wheeler blade! ill be rich!:laughing:


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## Longae29

basher;1323036 said:


> That's were you send the trucks with 6'6"inch blades.


.....and my grandma to drive the truck.


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## Longae29

trqjnky;1323034 said:


> well, i guess, you must just wait as long as possible to get the highest pay scale push. that seems like it would open up a lot of "youre ripping me off, there wasnt that much snow on the ground" arguments with the person you are plowing for. and what if one section of the lot has 3 inches, and the snows drifted up to 7 inches on the other end of the lot? do you break it down into sections? :laughing:


we dont get the argument we over billed. our area managers will take sample measurements in a geographic region. its not an exact science when its very windy, but you know if theres an inch that fell, or if 7 inches fell.


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## Mick76

As Longae stated its not really that hard at all... once you figure it out you'll never do hourly again...theres more $ to be made in per push or per event......Its simple, do as your contract states... If your suppose to push every 3 inches and it takes you an hour to push those 3 inches you'd bill them your hourly rate...ie you charge $100 per hour for your truck , on a 1-3 inch storm it'll take you an hour so you'd charge $100 (or if your bidding 1-3=$100, 3-6=$200, ect......, on a 3-6 inch event say it will take you 2 hours so your bid for that bracket would be $200, EVERYTHING COMES DOWN TO YOUR HOURLY RATE.....
now where you can start to make some good $ is by having the proper equipment in the right places....say on this same lot you have a skid as opposed to a truck, that skid will, generally speaking, get twice as much done as a truck so in essence you'd be making twice as much $ per hour
And the overbilling part is a mute point IF YOU HAVE IN YOUR CONTRACT WHERE OR WHAT SERVICE YOUR MEASUREMENT ARE TO COME FROM....... Its all about the contract....


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## basher

trqjnky;1323034 said:


> well, i guess, you must just wait as long as possible to get the highest pay scale push. that seems like it would open up a lot of "youre ripping me off, there wasnt that much snow on the ground" arguments with the person you are plowing for. and what if one section of the lot has 3 inches, and the snows drifted up to 7 inches on the other end of the lot? do you break it down into sections? :laughing:


You simply have a agreed source for accumulation amounts.

As for drifting the snow had to come from somewhere. If drifting is an issue there is a product called snow fence. 3 inches in one end 7 inches in the other was probably a 4 or 5 inch storm. Drifting snow had to come from someplace. If the wind want to do part of my push so be it.

How many hours does it take to push 5"of snow vs 3" of snow?

DELDOT civic association reimbursement program will not reimburse hourly or seasonal contracts only by inch contracts.

Why would anyone doing hourly buy anything larger then 7"6" plow? Would make no sense to me to work on hourly rate and spend extra money to buy equipment to shorten the amount of time it takes to perform a job.


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## trqjnky

basher;1323056 said:


> Why would anyone doing hourly buy anything larger then 7"6" plow? Would make no sense to me to work on hourly rate and spend extra money to buy equipment to shorten the amount of time it takes to perform a job.


its the same as why you charge different rates per inch.. i have a 9 ft plow with wings, im 11 feet wide. so i have it figured that my productivity is x amount faster, so i add that x amount onto my billing. i get paid for hours i dont plow. just because i have better equipment than a guy in a half ton truck with a 7'6" plow and can do the lot in 2 hours instead of 4, doesnt mean you only get charged 2. you still get charged 4, but im only there 2 hours since i have invested in better equipment. same as you, better equipment faster finish, you get paid for hours you dont plow.

really, all different sorts of bidding/charging work out to the same amount if you are doing it right. i know because i have been comparing my properties with the amount of snow last year, and making bids for them with per push, per inch, and comparing them with the hourly bids. ends up being within a couple bucks of each other.


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## basher

trqjnky;1323066 said:


> i get paid for hours i dont plow. just because i have better equipment than a guy in a half ton truck with a 7'6" plow and can do the lot in 2 hours instead of 4, doesnt mean you only get charged 2. you still get charged 4, but im only there 2 hours since i have invested in better equipment. same as you, better equipment faster finish, you get paid for hours you dont plow.


So it's really not an hourly rate, it's a flat rate presented as hourly billing. What do you do if the customer is on site while you plow or checks on you though video and knows how long you were there and questions your billing?


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## trqjnky

basher;1323105 said:


> So it's really not an hourly rate, it's a flat rate presented as hourly billing. What do you do if the customer is on site while you plow or checks on you though video and knows how long you were there and questions your billing?


Thats a good way of putting it.

and they all know, that my hourly rate is based off of a truck with a 7.5 foot straight blade. and the hours wont match up if they want to watch that close.

BUT, THANKFULLY, people have better things to do. and trust me

what it all comes down to, is when they get the bill for the storm, its a fair amount. they could give 2 ****s less about how i came about figuring it out. heck, i might even develope a new method. call it the hippo method. beings as iowa has a lot of fatties, ill just count how many hippos i see walking by, and develope an average of hippos per hour of plowing. and submit my bills that way...

14 hippos spotted, 460 dollars for todays push.
each push is 460 dollars, so 460 for todays push
75/hr for 7.5 blade,took 6.1 hrs thatll be 457
i was there for 3.8 hrs with my 11ft blade at 120/hr, 456 for todays push.
i charge 230 per push for up to 4", i pushed 2 4" depths, so 460 dollars for today..

as long as its the right price, doesnt matter how ya get there. just get there.

the thing is, with all the tards working for 40/hr out there, if you put 120 an hour, the person doesnt understand you are faster with your equipment than they are. so they just think youll be expensive. but if you put 75 down, and adjust for your increased productivity, they think your cheaper, the bill is the same. all is well, everyones happy.


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## THEGOLDPRO

Its really about the property trusting you on your snow total numbers. I have a few commercials that want a per push rate, They are too scared to do a seasonal because they feel they might lose money if it doesn't snow. And i get paid to do nothing, I always try and tell them, but on the other had it might snow everyday and the contractor takes the hit. They are usually the ones who are all about their numbers.


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## Mick76

trqjnky;1323106 said:


> 14 hippos spotted, 460 dollars for todays push.
> each push is 460 dollars, so 460 for todays push
> 75/hr for 7.5 blade, i was there for 3.8 hrs with my 11ft blade at 120/hr, 456 for todays push.
> i charge 230 per push for up to 4", i pushed 2 4" depths, so 460 dollars for today..
> 
> .


Sometimes I wonder why I try and help..........


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## THEGOLDPRO

For reference one of my commercial lots is broken up like this. I tried to make it simple with just 3 price increases so it wasn't a nightmare trying to figure it all out.

0-3 Inches $300.00+tax. 
4-8 inches $400.00+tax. 
9-15inches $600.00+tax. 
15+ inches is an additional $40.00 per inch. 
Just sand lots/sidewalks $175.00+tax 
Tractor work $75.00 Per hour+tax


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## buckwheat_la

Longae29;1323026 said:


> It's really not that difficult.
> 
> If you have a per push contract. You bill what you plow. 1-4, 4-8, 8+ whatever is on the ground when you plow, thats what you charge.
> 
> If 7'' falls, and you push 5'' one time, and 2'' the next time, you bill your 4-8, and your 1-4.
> 
> If you have a per storm contract. You bill for the total snowfall. 1-4, 4-8, 8+ whatever falls in the 24hr period, thats what you charge regardless of how many times you plow it.
> 
> If you have a per season contract, You bill the same thing regardless.
> 
> If you have a per hour contract, you probably don't know what you're doing.


I have a problem with this last statement, because really bidding on a inch range, and bidding hourly are pretty much the same thing. You have the range in inches because it takes longer to do a push with 12 inches then it does to do a push with 2 inches. If you are billing hourly you are covering the same costs either way. Now the real trick is knowing your equipments costs and capabilites. It isn't right to charge the same for a loader with a 12ft push vs a truck because the loader well do it faster, but beyond that, i see very little reason to say per push and hourly are that different. That being said, you need to be fair with your hourly pricing, you can't be lazy, or drag a job out longer then it is.


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## Longae29

buckwheat_la;1323120 said:


> I have a problem with this last statement,
> 
> That being said, you need to be fair with your hourly pricing, you can't be lazy, or drag a job out longer then it is.





trqjnky;1323066 said:


> i get paid for hours i dont plow. just because i have better equipment than a guy in a half ton truck with a 7'6" plow and can do the lot in 2 hours instead of 4, doesnt mean you only get charged 2. you still get charged 4, but im only there 2 hours since i have invested in better equipment. same as you, better equipment faster finish, you get paid for hours you dont plow.


This is why my opinion of hourly is low. Guys like this. Bid one thing, charge another. Instead of stating a higher rate to begin with, educating the customer on why you are higher, and charging accordingly. Instead, throw out a low number, and charge whatever you want.


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## trqjnky

Longae29;1323145 said:


> This is why my opinion of hourly is low. Guys like this. Bid one thing, charge another. Instead of stating a higher rate to begin with, educating the customer on why you are higher, and charging accordingly. Instead, throw out a low number, and charge whatever you want.


the problem is, the customer is too uneducated to understand what you are charging. they only see numbers on paper. the smart customers, i can explain it to them. they get it. but for the most part, apartment managers just dont get it. so you have to do it to compete with the lowballer.


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## snoway63

Its pretty simple, if you have the experience you should know how long it would take to do a lot no matter what size it is,and how much you need to charge, example I have a lot that they want by the push so in our contract it states every 2 inches it gets plowed, so in a 6 inch storm thats three times, and so on, plus i have a cap on the price per storm, mind you I know what it would cost me to plow the lot in a worst case scenario so that is what i base my cap on and they are very understanding of the contract, In reality it would come down to something similar as per season but if it doesnt snow im out of luck and they win and customers always want to win or thing they are getting a bargain.
I have never lost money on this lot but these are my excellent customers that have been with me from day one and pay very promptly


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## NorthernSvc's

per inch is best way to charge... i use a certified meterologist for snowfall total reports...
residential breaks down like this - 2 -4" is $x, than it is ( x/4 = z) Z dollars per inch after 4"...

so say the driveway was $40 per push, it would be - 2-4" $40, than $10.00 per inch after 4"

this system worked out really well last year during the blizzard when i was only able to plow once during the storm...instead of only getting $40 to clear 20 some inches of snow, well you can do math.. hoperfully.

commercial breaks down like this:
2-4" is x
4-6" is y
6-8" is z
over 8" is time and manpower


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## platinumpimps

Even per hour, if you are a subcontractor, the bigger the blade, the more they pay! So I don't see your bashing.


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## salted

I feel it's mostly about the customers. As a small business i know what my price per truck per hour needs to be. Most of our customers want the per push price. We can turn customers who prefer hourly rates into profits by setting minimum time charges. I feel if you communicate your reasoning, and everything is written in your contract, then your set. We have a 2-6", 6-12" and a 12" and up pricing. I feel it works out well


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## salted

Longae29;1323145 said:


> This is why my opinion of hourly is low. Guys like this. Bid one thing, charge another. Instead of stating a higher rate to begin with, educating the customer on why you are higher, and charging accordingly. Instead, throw out a low number, and charge whatever you want.


This is exactly what I wanted to say. I think the best way to make what you want to make is keeping your prices up front and honest, and knowing what contract you cant be profitable on and running. You may make some money by fudging the numbers, but you cant put a price on integrity.


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## WIPensFan

NorthernSvc's;1323535 said:


> per inch is best way to charge... i use a certified meterologist for snowfall total reports...
> residential breaks down like this - 2 -4" is $x, than it is ( x/4 = z) Z dollars per inch after 4"...
> 
> so say the driveway was $40 per push, it would be - 2-4" $40, than $10.00 per inch after 4"
> 
> this system worked out really well last year during the blizzard when i was only able to plow once during the storm...instead of only getting $40 to clear 20 some inches of snow, well you can do math.. hoperfully.
> 
> commercial breaks down like this:
> 2-4" is x
> 4-6" is y
> 6-8" is z
> over 8" is time and manpower


This is similar to how I charge...not exact. The price increases per certain number of inches is not just about time involved to plow, but how more snow works the equipment harder.


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## DJ Contracting

trqjnky;1323106 i have a 9 ft plow with wings said:


> Sorry but someone that charges more for the time they are there would be hard to trust. I have half ton trucks and do very well on per push, I like you plow with the storm and am out on the commercials at 1" of snowfall on the ground or no more than 2" before they open if the storm works that way. When we have a big storm we are out keeping the lots clean as possible, it doesn't matter if you have an 11' pr 7'6" plow when the snow falls hard and fast we all tend to fall behind. You keep plowing with your 9+2 foot blade because that truck would have a hard time turning around on most of the lots we do. Good luck this season -Joe-


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