# Subcontracting



## WiscTundra (Jun 25, 2013)

Will be adding snow this year. Will offer residential and commercial, but will probably just get residential jobs and sub for commercial.

For residential in Wisconsin, I'm wondering if a plow will be ok for most or if they'll want snowblower/shovel. I know from what I've read here that different regions have different views regarding a plow on their driveways.

Also for the commercial, since I'm new I'd like to sub.
1. Will be using 2500 and most likely 8ft v plow, curious as to what I should expect for pay. It's not a huge deal if I have to plow for little at first learning the ropes.

2. Any ways on here of networking with companies I could sub for in Green Bay/Fox Cities/Milwaukee?


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## BigBoyPlowin (Nov 16, 2012)

Not telling you how to run your biz... But if you have to sub the work out you will be probably better off just doing it yourself or not having it. 

If your sub "Flakes" out on you, the customer will be looking for YOU! Not the sub, YOU! So you will be forced to do the work!


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

I think he means he wants to sub for someone else.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Where are you located Milwaukee or Appleton? 

Have you ever plowed snow before? We are always looking for quality people in the Milwaukee area. If you are in the fox valley I could give you a guys name that we give work to on a regular basis.


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## WiscTundra (Jun 25, 2013)

Yep, I'm looking to subcontract for someone else, don't mind working for cheap at first to figure out what I'm doing. 

I haven't plowed before, but have excellent driving record/insurance. I'm in Green Bay, but would definitely be willing to travel to Milwaukee for times when they get hit and Green Bay doesn't. And appleton is very close.


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

WiscTundra;1638253 said:


> Yep, I'm looking to subcontract for someone else, don't mind working for cheap at first to figure out what I'm doing.
> 
> I haven't plowed before, but have excellent driving record/insurance. I'm in Green Bay, but would definitely be willing to travel to Milwaukee for times when they get hit and Green Bay doesn't. And appleton is very close.


Generally speaking it costs roughly $2000 per year for commercial auto insurance and another $500 for general liability insurance. Gas, $120 per tank and you will typically go threw 1 tank per storm. 15 storms per year is about $1800 in gas. So $4300 per year just for insurance and gas, figure another $1000 in general maintenance on your truck and plow, $5300. I will leave out the repair costs from when you hit a monster pothole and tear your front end apart...

$5300 divided by $50 an hour = 106 hours you will have to work before you make 1 penny. Are you sure you want to work for cheap ?


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

nekos;1638918 said:


> Generally speaking it costs roughly $2000 per year for commercial auto insurance and another $500 for general liability insurance. Gas, $120 per tank and you will typically go threw 1 tank per storm. 15 storms per year is about $1800 in gas. So $4300 per year just for insurance and gas, figure another $1000 in general maintenance on your truck and plow, $5300. I will leave out the repair costs from when you hit a monster pothole and tear your front end apart...
> 
> $5300 divided by $50 an hour = 106 hours you will have to work before you make 1 penny. Are you sure you want to work for cheap ?


Great post. Good job breaking it down.


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

BigBoyPlowin;1638241 said:


> Not telling you how to run your biz... But if you have to sub the work out you will be probably better off just doing it yourself or not having it.
> 
> If your sub "Flakes" out on you, the customer will be looking for YOU! Not the sub, YOU! So you will be forced to do the work!


So not surprised that you read his entire thread wrong.


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

nekos;1638918 said:


> Generally speaking it costs roughly $2000 per year for commercial auto insurance and another $500 for general liability insurance. Gas, $120 per tank and you will typically go threw 1 tank per storm. 15 storms per year is about $1800 in gas. So $4300 per year just for insurance and gas, figure another $1000 in general maintenance on your truck and plow, $5300. I will leave out the repair costs from when you hit a monster pothole and tear your front end apart...
> 
> $5300 divided by $50 an hour = 106 hours you will have to work before you make 1 penny. Are you sure you want to work for cheap ?


Well he states that he "will be adding snow removal". So he is probably already covering the cost of his insurance with whatever business he is already running.

Still a good cost breakdown to show him though.


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

Triton2286;1638972 said:


> Well he states that he "will be adding snow removal". So he is probably already covering the cost of his insurance with whatever business he is already running.
> 
> Still a good cost breakdown to show him though.


Not necessarily, I'm just assuming the guy is in landscaping. Most people i know who just do landscaping do not have commercial auto insurance. Regardless, what i said in my other comment is basically what i say to every one getting into this business and or the sub contractors who are getting taken advantage of.

It costs a lot of money to run a plow truck, we have to cover those costs and working cheep just doesn't do it.


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## WiscTundra (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for the great replies, especially Neko; I'll have to rethink working cheap for sure. 

To the question, Yes I do have liabilty insurance but no commercial auto ins. Had no idea it would be 2,000! Does it not adjust up or down based on number of miles/revenue you do? Also, for commercial auto insurance I'll either go through Allstate, where I have my regular auto and other policies , or Pekin (who I have lawn liability through), any idea which is preferable?


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

WiscTundra;1640506 said:


> Thanks for the great replies, especially Neko; I'll have to rethink working cheap for sure.
> 
> To the question, Yes I do have liabilty insurance but no commercial auto ins. Had no idea it would be 2,000! Does it not adjust up or down based on number of miles/revenue you do? Also, for commercial auto insurance I'll either go through Allstate, where I have my regular auto and other policies , or Pekin (who I have lawn liability through), any idea which is preferable?


My preference is local companies. I'm paying $2500 for auto from a NY company. Progressive wanted double that.

Allstate does not offer commercial auto, unless they work with another company to get you the coverage but when I asked my agent he told me they wouldn't cover me or at least not if I had a plow.


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

WiscTundra;1640506 said:


> Thanks for the great replies, especially Neko; I'll have to rethink working cheap for sure.
> 
> To the question, Yes I do have liabilty insurance but no commercial auto ins. Had no idea it would be 2,000! Does it not adjust up or down based on number of miles/revenue you do? Also, for commercial auto insurance I'll either go through Allstate, where I have my regular auto and other policies , or Pekin (who I have lawn liability through), any idea which is preferable?


You're welcome...

Commercial auto Insurance doesn't adjust up or down with mileage as far as I'm aware of. I also pay less for my commercial auto insurance, $1200 per year, but i have an exceptionally good driving record and i get a discount threw the company i work for. Roughly $2000 is what it will cost though and always over estimate costs !


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

Something else to consider; I have comm ins on my truck, for firewood deliveries. I have a good agent, and the price was less than $1000 per year. Last year I was notified by the ins co. that while the price would remain the same ,they would no longer cover snow removal without an additional rider. The cost of the rider for snow removal would doubble my ins premium. Read the policy before you buy.


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## MSS Mow (Mar 19, 2006)

My commercial insurance is less than $800 on my 2012 truck and I have 1 million/2 million coverage.


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

I have done some research. The snow removal rider my insurance co. required me to purchase was in addition to my general liability policy, not my commercial vehicle policy. Either way it was an additional expense I hadn't counted on.


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## Wilnip (Oct 4, 2011)

For what it's worth, check into State Farm. I just switched my 4 plow trucks and 2 vehicles used in our other business and saved big $ from Auto-Owners whom we had for 4 or 5 years. I now have full coverage on all vehicles, used to only be 3, and still saved a few bucks. I have a meeting this week to get quote on liabily.


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## tranz429 (Aug 28, 2013)

My policies are with State Farm and they wont touch anything with a plow on it. Are you getting coverage for snow removal with SF?


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

American Family has commercial auto & does cover plowing. I've got my commercial auto, plowing & liability through a small independent agent. If you're in Wisconsin, I'll give you his name.


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