# Private Development...



## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

I guess I have bidders block or something. This is my first thread in this section, I could really use some help on this.

I was contacted by a developer to bid on one of his private association roads. He requested a seasonal contract with sanding in. Light sanding was brought up more then once...


> annual quote for plowing and sanding (sanded lightly - only when and where necessary)


Here is my biggest hitch, I have been subbing my ice management out at cost this whole time. Meaning I have never even seen a bill let alone discussed the particulars with current or previous customers. I was planning on buying a new sander in February to put an end to this, but at this point, if I can land this account, I'll pick it up now instead of handing over $$ to someone else.

Here is the specifics

8 tenths of a mile long.

23' wide...Tar edge to tar edge. There is another 2'-3' of dirt shoulder on one side.

All pavement, except the actual lower culdesac.

16 homes on the road....big, expensive homes.  Potential customers!

12% Grade in some section going up, leveling off, then going down again to the hammer head.

Average snow fall per season 90" - 100". An average of 18 occurrences per season. 
(This Development is up on a Hill / small mountain where you can see the ocean and surrounding lakes, according to Google it's 800'...so I am unsure how it is going to effect snow accumulations.

Equipment: 
GMC 2500HD with an XLS & if this works out a 1.5 Poly Caster. My current price for salt/sand mix is $38 per yard....seems a bit higher then 10 years ago .

Sorry for the map, it was an aerial shot provided to me. Google still shows 3/4 of the development unfinished.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

Roads are fast (no backing up)
It will take you 4 passes plus some cleanup at the cul-de-sacs and hammerhead.

45 minutes to an hour worth of work to plow, then one pass to sand the hills and shady spots if needed.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

are you sure about the 90-100 inches of snow, seems like alot, if it is going to snow that much, plan on pushing your snow as deep as you can into the ditch at the start so you have room later in the year for more snow.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

Thats over a 5 year history observed just up the road. Now, 15 miles away the average snow fall is 79"...That's not too far off. 

Your absolutely right about pushing it back, that was initial thought when i went to look at it.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

53 views and only a couple comments.....

Let me be the first to toss some numbers out there. I crunched the numbers a bunch of different ways and came up with $5500 - $7500 (I know, big window) for a seasonal contract, with sand/salt in. What do you all think, too high, too low. Am I shooting for the sky here?


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

how many average snows per year? (actually plowable events per year)
what's the trigger?

How long do YOU think it's going to take you to do?


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

if it were me quoting it, i would take my truck, (just like i was plowing) and drive it, make the passes, back and forth at the speed i figured i would go, that should help you get a better idea on costs


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Ryan,

Shoot me the address... I'll bid 10K and you can bid your 7.5K... you'll look like your giving a great deal!.....payup... and then hit them up for a 3 year deal!


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Hey Ryan, just saw your post - I'll bid it at 7, sub it to you for 6 LOL....

I think your snow fall estimate is good. Your events might be *average*, but we had 23 events two seasons ago. Budget 20 to be safe. It's on the east side of the lake, so "lake effect" will be limited, given our big events are Nor'easters......Lake effect is real, even on a small lake. I plow a place on the west side of a lake, she gets more than anyone, consistently. You should be able to knock that out in under an hour, maybe a tick more when you sand. Don't forget your travel time as far as scheduling goes. Given the neighborhood, they will be low tolerance. Probably 2-3 inches and you'll need run through. The XLS will be ideal here. I would be planning something like this....

25 events, 1 pass
20 events, 2 passes
15 events, 3 passes
10 events, 4 passes
5 events, 5 passes

I wouldn't be surprised if you visit 75 times or more. Maybe a third/half of those times you can do one in, one out. Particularly during those drawn out daytime storms. Clean up when it's all over. Don't forget drifting will likely be pretty bad in there, so you may be going back two days after the storm. If you figure your truck is worth $100-$125/hr, you are in the 7K-8K range. As for sanding - the bid specs are VERY vague. You could take a pounding if there is a soccer mom who needs to get out all the time, but can't drive her Yukon......
I would be inclined to put a cost plus clause in for this. After so many hoppers, it's extra. If you're paying $38, which sounds about right, you need to charge $100 to put it down. I would allow a yard to do the whole thing.

I'm working on a bid for a 30+ bed boarding home, this is the strategy I'm using.

Something to work with....


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

> 2COR517


 Thanks man, thats exactly what I needed.



> Mick76


 That would just be wrong.  ......should we turn yours in before, or after mine?

Do any of you guys ever get to that point where you start questioning your own bids? Of coarse there is always that question in the back of your mind, but lately I have been getting to the point of retyping a contract 2-3 times, and re reading it atleast 5 times before handing it over. It's enough to drive me crazy. I'll be happy when bid season is over and all I have to do is worry about pushing some snow. When I got back into plowing full time, I would have 80% of my contracts signed by Labor day. Now, it's nothing but procrastination, & "Can you do a payment arrangement?". I went to a potential customer just today that wanted to take a $1200 seasonal contract, but wanted to pay it in 4 installments 60 days apart (last payment due in May) ! Mind you, this is a business too.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Nothing wrong with being thorough. I will typically take two or three days before I finalize a proposal. Work on it, print it out, sit on, go back and revise. Bidding is the worst part of this business. Trying to get everything on a three year contract. I think your payment arrangement requests are a sign of the times. If it's someone I have known for a while, I don't care how long it takes them to pay. I don't mind grabbing a couple hundred bucks here and there during the summer.

The correct order to submit bids would be Mick76, you, me


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Hey Ryan - still working on it eh? Something else to consider/think about. You may want to keep your eyes/ears open for someone with a side wing. Get three or four big ones back to back in Feb with no melting and you may need to get the tops knocked off.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

I already turned it in at $7500 all in. I was thinking about that, but I am going to be flowing it all to the left going up, there is either a steep drop off or a good sized ditch around the parameter. There is still some problem areas here and there, & the culdesac may get bound up also if we get hammered, but there a excavation company around the corner for the heavy stuff ( I keep a snow removal clause in my contracts just for his reason.) 

Either he wasn't legit & was fishing, or I was too high on my price. He wrote me several emails between my replies, almost too chatty, then nothing since I forwarded the bid. Not even a confirmation reply. We'll see.


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

RepoMan207;837596 said:


> Either he wasn't legit & was fishing, or I was too high on my price. He wrote me several emails between my replies, almost too chatty.


I have one of those chatty customers too. Next thing I know he offers me shares in the development in lieu of pay!?........I think not. I need cashflow now.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Best of luck. Hope you hear soon. I think your price is fair. Probably in line with what he has already seen so he's bumming.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

I considered going $6000 - $6500....but he wants to split the total...1/2 now and the other 1/2 Feb. 1. There is a reason why I'm not a member of the FDIC...I'm not a damn bank! :laughing:


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## Lux Lawn (Jan 5, 2004)

RepoMan207;837660 said:


> There is a reason why I'm not a member of the FDIC...I'm not a damn bank! :laughing:


Are you sure?


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

Sure feels like it sometimes.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

I can't make this sh*t up if I tried. I sent this guy a follow up letter, more out of curosity then anything:



> Dave.
> Ryan here. I wanted to make sure you received my bid. Let me know what your lowest bid is thus far, I might be able to make some adjustments. Give me a call on my cell anytime 766-1562.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ryan


This is what I got back! 



> Hi Ryan,
> 
> Yes, I got your bid a couple days ago, thanks. You are the high bidder. I won't tell you what the lowest bid is, but I can tell you that Buzzell charged the association $2800 last year including salt. All bids I've received to date <other than yours> are under $3500. I figured you didn't want the job.
> 
> Dave


I know I was drinking that night.......but C'mon!


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

That's total crap. I wouldn't beleive anything less than 5G.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

Thats what I was thinking when I went by his house tonight....I thought for sure I was going to see a plow. If he has one, it's in his garage. I couldn't see anything. I wanted to bust his chops a bit. 

So the day gets better, this guy emailed me on my CL ad, wants me to quote him for his private road and his drive. 1000 ft long two houses. blah blah blah, so I get over there to find a 08 /09 Super duty with a 9' blade sitting in his drive way. The plow was under his basket ball hoop and the truck sitting in front of the garage. Needless to say I'm not replying to that one. 

I'm that guy that will bend over backwards to help someone out, but it burns my ass when people pull this crap.


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