# first post, making my own mount, have questions.



## muddy (May 13, 2013)

Hello all, 
I have an older western 7' plow, that I am in the process of mounting to my '87 jeep grand wagoneer. 

The plow is a conventional mount, but I'm reworking it. I'm making a sub-frame that will hold the plow, hydraulic pump, and lights, basically turning it into a mount similar to the newer style mounts.

My question is regarding attaching the sub-frame to the jeep frame. I have reinforced the jeep frame, and plan to attach the sub-frame with 4 pins. The original plan was to use standard 5/8" hitch pins, but now I'm beginning to wander if maybe I should use something a little larger?

I guess what I'm asking is if you feel that four 5/8" pins would be strong enough to support a 7' plow. Pins will be at each corner of the sub frame, which is 34" wide, and 24" front to back.

Unless we get lot of snow, this plow will probably only be used a couple times a year to plow our drive, which is 3/4mile long. It doesn't have to be up to "industrial" specs, but I don't want to be repairing it every year either.

thanks for any info you can give,
Keith


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Grade 8 bolts. I think most are 7/8.


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

I would use what the factory uses. 
1"x 3 1/2" Hitch pins. Thumbs Up

http://library.westernplows.com/ddcommon/dd_pdf/pdfs/13178_110188.pdf


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

REAPER;1654345 said:


> I would use what the factory uses.
> 1"x 3 1/2" Hitch pins. Thumbs Up
> 
> http://library.westernplows.com/ddcommon/dd_pdf/pdfs/13178_110188.pdf


I thought he was talking about the actual mount.


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## John Matthews (Oct 16, 2013)

I have the same question except I have a 2005 Tahoe. Any pictures out there?

Thanks,

John


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## muddy (May 13, 2013)

When I have better net access, I'll upload a sketch of what I'm talking about.

Basically, though, I want to take a conventional mount plow, and mount it to a secondary/sub-frame. That subframe will then attach to the frame of the jeep. I'd like to make the sub-frame to jeep connection so that it can be easily removed durring the off season. The plow will be connected to the sub-frame the same way that it was connected to the ford that it came off of.

I should be able to get a diagram uploaded sometime Tuesday.


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## muddy (May 13, 2013)

Ok, maybe this will make my question a little easier to figure out.
Here's a key for the picture,
Black = jeep frame. it has been reinforced, and anchor points added.
Grey = frame side anchor points (4 total)
Green = what I'm keeping from the ford setup.
Red = sub frame that I want to build to attach plow to jeep.

Plan would be to install sub frame (red part) with pump in the fall before snow.
Then, when plow is needed, it could be attached to sub frame with the two factory pins (at the back of the "A" frame. 
Then, in the spring, simply pull the 4 pins (size of those 4 pins is what is in question) and remove the sub frame, which would leave the jeep looking stock.
Here's the picture,


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## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

Couple of things come to mind. If you use pins you are going to have a set up that constantly flops around. I would suggest using large bolts and nuts that would mount the system to your tabs on the frame. Also those tabs will want to always push back and up toward the back of the truck. You have to somehow gusset and or triangulate these tabs. Also not sure what your fabrication capabilities are as well as what machines you have on hand, but please do not use a 110v welder for this. Your plate design (red) would also have to be boxed as well and not just flat plate; this will resist the twisting action. You also might want to look at an old fisher speed cast set up and you will see the large cross beam that is used where the plow “A” frame tabs attach to. You can probably copy that design to tie your pass and drivers side red plates together. I do like your outline design of the red plates though. That could easily be programmed into a CNC plasma cutter and the parts cut out. Remind me I need to finish my CNC plasma table project.


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## muddy (May 13, 2013)

Ok, I'll bolt it on, but what size bolts should I use? 
The mounting tabs are 3/4" thick x 3" wide, and will be fully welded to the frame plates. They won't be sticking down very far below the frame, but I should have enough room to fit in a small gusset.
I have, and plan on using the large cross beam (it's a "C" channel) that the "A" frame attaches to, it just didn't show up to well in the drawing. 

110v welder will only be used to tack things together for the mock-up. I'll be using the 220v Lincoln to fully weld everything. I made lots of stuff for my old wrangler, sliders, bumpers, tire carrier, etc.... The catch is, the machine shop that I have access to is a little bit old school. Everything is manual control, the closest thing to a computer is the calculator that sits on the desk. LOL


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

muddy;1655570 said:


> Ok, I'll bolt it on, but what size bolts should I use?
> The mounting tabs are 3/4" thick x 3" wide, and will be fully welded to the frame plates. They won't be sticking down very far below the frame, but I should have enough room to fit in a small gusset.
> I have, and plan on using the large cross beam (it's a "C" channel) that the "A" frame attaches to, it just didn't show up to well in the drawing.
> 
> 110v welder will only be used to tack things together for the mock-up. I'll be using the 220v Lincoln to fully weld everything. I made lots of stuff for my old wrangler, sliders, bumpers, tire carrier, etc.... The catch is, the machine shop that I have access to is a little bit old school. Everything is manual control, the closest thing to a computer is the calculator that sits on the desk. LOL


Biggest shortest grade 8 bolts you can fit


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## John Matthews (Oct 16, 2013)

John Matthews;1654661 said:


> I have the same question except I have a 2005 Tahoe. Any pictures out there?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John


Got it mounted up finally 

Ended up buying a Boss truck side mount and fabricating on the plow side to make it work.

Thanks,

John


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## muddy (May 13, 2013)

Well, it's only taken 2 years, and winter is almost over, but I finally got the plow mounted on the wagoneer.
pictures can be seen here. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3935567/1987-jeep-grand-wagoneer

I did change the mount design from my original "bolt on" idea, to a more traditional permanently mounted head gear. However, after seeing how easily the pump and lights can be removed, I think I'm going to incorporate the mount into a push bar/brush guard type of bumper design. maybe it won't quite look like a plow mount during the summer.

Anyway, I got the hydraulics wired up last night, and I have a question about how they are supposed to work.
It's a western plow with the solenoid operated isarmatic controls (it's electric with the joystick controller). Everything appears to be working correctly, the plow goes up and down, and angles side to side just fine. My question is with the "float" portion.

When I lower the blade, it will go down(comes down kind of fast, but I did manage to find info on how to adjust that already), but when the blade hits the ground and there is no tension on the cylinder, it stops. The only way to get the cylinder to go down any more(in order to disconnect the lifting chain), was to have my son hold the controller "down" while I pressed down on the cylinder. So, I guess my question is; How is the lower/float supposed to work?

Thanks for any advice/info you can give.
muddy


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

It is working as it should. All plows (except Snoway) lower though gravity, once the blade is on the ground it will not lower the pistion further without assistance.

Holding the drop control should put it into float, as you travel an the ground drops the blade should lower with it keeping the wear edge in contact with the ground.


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## muddy (May 13, 2013)

Basher, thanks for the info.

QUOTE "Holding the drop control should put it into float, as you travel ......." QUOTE
So, does this mean that I have to manually keep in in "float" by holding the stick in that position, or will it stay in "float" after holding the stick down for a set amount of time?

If it only "floats" when the stick is manually held, I may have to investigate adding another switch to keep the down solenoid activated to allow it to float without having to hold the stick. This would also make it easier for one person to lower the cylinder to disconnect the chain.


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

basher;1764868 said:


> It is working as it should. All plows (except Snoway) lower though gravity, once the blade is on the ground it will not lower the pistion further without assistance.


So my HTD snoway is power down? I did not know that. I know when I energise the down pressure, the motor cycles a few times. Im not trying to be a smart a$$, I really did not know that.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

muddy;1764894 said:


> So, does this mean that I have to manually keep in in "float" by holding the stick in that position, or will it stay in "float" after holding the stick down for a set amount of time?.


The switch should lock in the float position, if its a membrane control there will be a light after you hold the down switch a moment. Could be the wrong part or a broken switch



Plowtoy;1764920 said:


> So my HTD snoway is power down? I did not know that. I know when I energise the down pressure, the motor cycles a few times. Im not trying to be a smart a$$, I really did not know that.


Yes the "D" in the serial number signifies down pressure equipped. Yo should feel the truck "lift a little when applied. The motor will run occasionally on that unit to keep the DP at the proper setting. If you are not getting DP effect the common causes are, the trunk mounting points are too high, the DP relief valve has is out of adjustment, or you need bushings in the lift mechanism.


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

basher;1764927 said:


> Yes the "D" in the serial number signifies down pressure equipped. Yo should feel the truck "lift a little when applied. The motor will run occasionally on that unit to keep the DP at the proper setting. If you are not getting DP effect the common causes are, the trunk mounting points are too high, the DP relief valve has is out of adjustment, or you need bushings in the lift mechanism.


So its only power down with the down pressure turned on, that is what I thought. Again, I wasn't trying to be smart, I just was not sure. When I turn the down pressure on, I can feel the truck lift a little and my headlights will flicker a few times, which I think is normal. I do think I need some kind of pressure adjustments though as my blade turns left or right very easily while plowing and it is not strong enough to recover back to the direction I want it to be with the plow down and a load in front of it. The motor will run but it cannot overcome the weight of the snow. If I use my back up truck with the boss, it has no problem turning with a load or not.


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## muddy (May 13, 2013)

got to use the plow a little bit this weekend. Everything in the drive is mostly ice now, but I was able to scrape off a little of the slush, and kind of smooth things out. here are a couple pics.








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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Plowtoy;1766148 said:


> So its only power down with the down pressure turned on, that is what I thought. Again, I wasn't trying to be smart, I just was not sure. When I turn the down pressure on, I can feel the truck lift a little and my headlights will flicker a few times, which I think is normal.
> 
> Yes that is correct
> 
> I do think I need some kind of pressure adjustments though as my blade turns left or right very easily while plowing and it is not strong enough to recover back to the direction I want it to be with the plow down and a load in front of it. The motor will run but it cannot overcome the weight of the snow.


Have to put a gage in to check the cross-over relief. That is a entirely different animal than your DP system.


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