# National Maintenance Services



## yardatwork (Jan 21, 2009)

Any one on here subcontracted through these guys? I have a couple post offices and have to deal with this company. What a nightmare. 36 page contract, I found errors in the contract and brought it to their attention. They adjusted the contracted to minimalize the headache on their end but created headaches on my end. They seriously call or email daily. They hound the post offices daily. We’re all fed up. The want the contractor to do al the dirty work for them. The want me to print out a poster to hang at the post offices stating they are the contracting snow service provider. The constantly want me to print stuff out and take it to the post offices to get signed. Why aren’t they just emailing or faxing stuff directly to the post offices. They wanted my to print out google earth shots of the post offices and put an ‘x’ where I would be pulling up the snow. It just never stops. I don’t feel that I should be responsible for using all of my printer ink and a ream of paper for this company. I’ve dealt with numerous companies over my 18 years of business but have never come across such a horribly run company. I’ve gone as far as sending nasty grams to them stating to chill the hell out. The post masters keep telling them to stop calling daily. They now want me to download an app so that they can track my every move. I’m at the point where I’m willing to let these post offices go because of National Maintenance Services and their ludicrous business policies. I’ve had these post office off and on over my 18 years of business. I know the post master personally. We’ve had a great working relationship and now this company rolls in and tries bullying us into following their policies. These huge maintenance companies are a joke and create so many problems. Anyone else deal with these clowns?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Does the contract you signed say anywhere that you gave to do what they are asking of you?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes I dealt with them on Verizon locations. I just ignored there stupid requests. I made sure I kept the Managers at the locations happy. They would pay slow but one riot act call they would pay quickly.

They do have a pretty good size company that self preforms.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

#1 36 page contract? Run away.
#2 Errors in the 36 page contract? Keep running
#3 You answered your own question.


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## yardatwork (Jan 21, 2009)

The post masters have my cell number so I just deal with them on a personal level. Walking away is an option but I don’t want to since these locations have been clients for years. Just recently the postal service has gone national with all this crap. They feel it’s easier on the post master...but...it’s so not. In the contract it states to send monthly invoices to this lady. I did that...now I’ve just had a ten email back and forth with a whole different contact person about my invoices. This lady had me so confused. She finally just called me and said that she’d prefer ONE SEASONAL invoice with the six monthly payment installments listed on there vs me sending over monthly invoices per month. I told her that the contract states to send monthly invoices. So I do more leg work to make her job easier for her but more paperwork for me. Granted...not all that hard after you finally find out what they really want...but it’s all so contradicting based on what the contract states.


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## yardatwork (Jan 21, 2009)

FredG said:


> Yes I dealt with them on Verizon locations. I just ignored there stupid requests. I made sure I kept the Managers at the locations happy. They would pay slow but one riot act call they would pay quickly.
> 
> They do have a pretty good size company that self preforms.


I've ignored much of their requests and have even wrote notes on the contract that I would NOT be doing this or that. I've seriously spoken with a half dozen different people regarding all this. They call just to check upon on me. I've had a 'dispatcher' call me stating I had an hour to get back to the one location and salt. I show up and the lot is bare. Their contract states that for every inch of snowfall I need to be on location within an hour...umm...yeah...NO!!!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Are the demands they are making of you IN THE CONTRACT?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

yardatwork said:


> I've ignored much of their requests and have even wrote notes on the contract that I would NOT be doing this or that. I've seriously spoken with a half dozen different people regarding all this. They call just to check upon on me. I've had a 'dispatcher' call me stating I had an hour to get back to the one location and salt. I show up and the lot is bare. Their contract states that for every inch of snowfall I need to be on location within an hour...umm...yeah...NO!!!


 I never had nobody check up on me. Communicate with them via text or Email so you have proof of conversations and requests. They did that to me several times to go salt bare lots, I was on per trip and would bill for a salt trip. I had there text or email requesting the salt I did it and got payed for it. I just figured they were a little shady and trying to increase the earnings or had some employee on site that knew more about snow and ice more than me. :laugh:

Chill out you don't have to have anything to do with them next season you know how they are now and ignore them unless it's putting money in your pocket. Then again you do need to see if these ridiculous requests are not in your contract. Good Luck


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

My 2 PO's went national a couple years ago.I stopped doing them, broke my heart lol, they were cash cows. The PM and the secretary who was my usual contact tried to get me back direct, hasn't worked, they're stuck with the national. They offered something like 12K a year, the last year I plowed it was 22K,no thanks


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

yardatwork said:


> Walking away is an option but I don't want to since these locations have been clients for years.


Walking away is always an option.

You initially stated you've serviced them off and on for 18 years.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Walking away is always an option.
> 
> You initially stated you've serviced them off and on for 18 years.


 This may seem hard,but if its not worth the hassle move on.I still look back at losing them(16 years of service) but I've filled my route with other good jobs.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

All that typing and a simple question has not been answered.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> All that typing and a simple question has not been answered.


Correct, OP, are these requests in the contract that you agreed to?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Randall Ave said:


> Correct, OP, are these requests in the contract that you agreed to?


For the third time...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> For the third time...


Third time's a charm! Or is that one about marriage.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

John_DeereGreen said:


> All that typing and a simple question has not been answered.


 No,I've never worked for them. I don't know why they don't email directly to the PO.So I guess beside moral support,I have nothing to add.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

The good news is I have yet to see a national have an 18 year run. I have also seen a a drop in small contractors this season, not everyone has access to an affordable consistent salt supply this year and I think we might be seeing an up turn in prices. All of my increases went through this year and I even won one back that I lost last season with the increase, completely based on their lack of performance and detail when they were there.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

leigh said:


> No,I've never worked for them. I don't know why they don't email directly to the PO.So I guess beside moral support,I have nothing to add.


I wasn't referring to anyone posting in response. I was referring to the OP.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I wasn't referring to anyone posting in response. I was referring to the OP.


 Oops! sorry


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

yardatwork said:


> The post masters have my cell number so I just deal with them on a personal level. Walking away is an option but I don't want to since these locations have been clients for years. Just recently the postal service has gone national with all this crap. They feel it's easier on the post master...but...it's so not. In the contract it states to send monthly invoices to this lady. I did that...now I've just had a ten email back and forth with a whole different contact person about my invoices. This lady had me so confused. She finally just called me and said that she'd prefer ONE SEASONAL invoice with the six monthly payment installments listed on there vs me sending over monthly invoices per month. I told her that the contract states to send monthly invoices. So I do more leg work to make her job easier for her but more paperwork for me. Granted...not all that hard after you finally find out what they really want...but it's all so contradicting based on what the contract states.


To the PM's that you are personal with explain to them why you are walking and reiterate the fact that you are running a business. As friends or professionals they should respect and appreciate that!


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

yardatwork said:


> Just recently the postal service has gone national with all this crap. They feel it's easier on the post master...but...it's so not.


The Post Office going with national company probably has more to do with them (the Post Office) getting out from under the liability of snow and ice hazards then it does making things easier.

NYH1.


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## zlssefi (Dec 29, 2011)

NMS? USM? sounds like the same company.........now we just need to rename this thread..." Another USM Thread". I guarantee in that 36 page contract it covers everything right down to you will hang up our fliers and wipe our keysters and then we wont pay you if the toilet paper is too harsh......


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## icudoucme (Dec 3, 2008)

I ran into a similar problem. I used to do 4 post offices and got paid directly from the the post office branches. 4 years ago some smuck in DC decided they would go the NSP route. It was a huge debacle. I declined the contract from the NSP. They got a new person. After the first 2 storms in November the new company never showed. I got a call from the local post office asking if I could plow them and they would pay asap with a credit card.. The local branches ended not following the post master generals orders due to missed deliveries and the major distribution center ended up doing there own. I guess they are still having issues


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## zlssefi (Dec 29, 2011)

An old timer friend of mine plowed a post office locally for him 44 years consecutive. The post office informed him that he had to sign up with usm to keep the job. At 77 years old he decided that wasnt what he wanted t do going forward. Usm offered him a ripe 40 percent of what he was getting all along, just to keep the job....typical nsp.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

icudoucme said:


> I ran into a similar problem. I used to do 4 post offices and got paid directly from the the post office branches. 4 years ago some smuck in DC decided they would go the NSP route. It was a huge debacle. I declined the contract from the NSP. They got a new person. After the first 2 storms in November the new company never showed. I got a call from the local post office asking if I could plow them and they would pay asap with a credit card.. The local branches ended not following the post master generals orders due to missed deliveries and the major distribution center ended up doing there own. I guess they are still having issues





zlssefi said:


> An old timer friend of mine plowed a post office locally for him 44 years consecutive. The post office informed him that he had to sign up with usm to keep the job. At 77 years old he decided that wasnt what he wanted t do going forward. Usm offered him a ripe 40 percent of what he was getting all along, just to keep the job....typical nsp.


This is exactly what happened to me. Called in when one sub never showed up, One po was never plowed the whole season! I did it for that one season and they had to classify it as "lawn care" with the final bill being split into 5 payments.They can't get rid of the national,they've tried for the last 4 years,this year I didn't even contact them,they have my # .


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## PALS Landscapin (Dec 3, 2011)

zlssefi said:


> NMS? USM? sounds like the same company.........now we just need to rename this thread..." Another USM Thread". I guarantee in that 36 page contract it covers everything right down to you will hang up our fliers and wipe our keysters and then we wont pay you if the toilet paper is too harsh......


Its not the same company they are both their own companies.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I think the op started reading his contract, I guarantee there's language in there about divulging the language of the contract...lol


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

yardatwork said:


> Any one on here subcontracted through these guys? I have a couple post offices and have to deal with this company. What a nightmare. 36 page contract, I found errors in the contract and brought it to their attention. They adjusted the contracted to minimalize the headache on their end but created headaches on my end. They seriously call or email daily. They hound the post offices daily. We're all fed up. The want the contractor to do al the dirty work for them. The want me to print out a poster to hang at the post offices stating they are the contracting snow service provider. The constantly want me to print stuff out and take it to the post offices to get signed. Why aren't they just emailing or faxing stuff directly to the post offices. They wanted my to print out google earth shots of the post offices and put an 'x' where I would be pulling up the snow. It just never stops. I don't feel that I should be responsible for using all of my printer ink and a ream of paper for this company. I've dealt with numerous companies over my 18 years of business but have never come across such a horribly run company. I've gone as far as sending nasty grams to them stating to chill the hell out. The post masters keep telling them to stop calling daily. They now want me to download an app so that they can track my every move. I'm at the point where I'm willing to let these post offices go because of National Maintenance Services and their ludicrous business policies. I've had these post office off and on over my 18 years of business. I know the post master personally. We've had a great working relationship and now this company rolls in and tries bullying us into following their policies. These huge maintenance companies are a joke and create so many problems. Anyone else deal with these clowns?


The APP (KBS presence) is much better than the dumb paper work and you don't have to do the paper work if you use the app

I've never heard of the posters thing at the post office

The constant calls are annoying 
"It looks like you will get snow tomorrow , what's you plan"
Ummmm if it shows up...we will plow it!

"There's one inch of snow at post office X, what are you going to do?"
Ummmm wait until there's two, and then okie it? 
Do I win?
Do I get a cookie?


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

tpendagast said:


> The APP (KBS presence) is much better than the dumb paper work and you don't have to do the paper work if you use the app
> 
> I've never heard of the posters thing at the post office
> 
> ...


I would be tempted to tell them I posted it on PS to see what the guys have to say I'll get back to you on that.


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## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

yardatwork said:


> Any one on here subcontracted through these guys? I have a couple post offices and have to deal with this company. What a nightmare. 36 page contract, I found errors in the contract and brought it to their attention. They adjusted the contracted to minimalize the headache on their end but created headaches on my end. They seriously call or email daily. They hound the post offices daily. We're all fed up. The want the contractor to do al the dirty work for them. The want me to print out a poster to hang at the post offices stating they are the contracting snow service provider. The constantly want me to print stuff out and take it to the post offices to get signed. Why aren't they just emailing or faxing stuff directly to the post offices. They wanted my to print out google earth shots of the post offices and put an 'x' where I would be pulling up the snow. It just never stops. I don't feel that I should be responsible for using all of my printer ink and a ream of paper for this company. I've dealt with numerous companies over my 18 years of business but have never come across such a horribly run company. I've gone as far as sending nasty grams to them stating to chill the hell out. The post masters keep telling them to stop calling daily. They now want me to download an app so that they can track my every move. I'm at the point where I'm willing to let these post offices go because of National Maintenance Services and their ludicrous business policies. I've had these post office off and on over my 18 years of business. I know the post master personally. We've had a great working relationship and now this company rolls in and tries bullying us into following their policies. These huge maintenance companies are a joke and create so many problems. Anyone else deal with these clowns?


*Somebody* in that chain doesn't want you there! Dump em n run


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Just dawned on me 
National maintenance systems doesn’t have ALL the post offices 
JL does ; who has then sub contracted to (at least) command 7 and national maintenance systems (possibly others) who then sub to actual snow company’s 
So a National has subbed multiple nationals to then sub 

How much sub can a sub sub sub, if a sub sub could sub subs?


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

One more thing 
Just because I’m on a roll...
National maintenance contracts state you are prohibited from using subs on properties you do for them.
Isn’t that a hoot?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

tpendagast said:


> Just dawned on me
> National maintenance systems doesn't have ALL the post offices
> JL does ; who has then sub contracted to (at least) command 7 and national maintenance systems (possibly others) who then sub to actual snow company's
> So a National has subbed multiple nationals to then sub
> ...


One reason I know some\all don't save the customer money is from way back when we worked for 5/3 Bank.

They hired Viox Services for building, landscaping and snow management. We were contacted by some idiot out of Detoilet to bid on a bunch of branches. Might have been continue on with the ones we had, I don't remember exactly. My prices were exactly the same as when we billed the bank directly. I know the idiot in Detoilet marked up my invoices. And I know the idiots at Viox marked up his invoices.

Totally asinine.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> One reason I know some\all don't save the customer money is from way back when we worked for 5/3 Bank.
> 
> They hired Viox Services for building, landscaping and snow management. We were contacted by some idiot out of Detoilet to bid on a bunch of branches. Might have been continue on with the ones we had, I don't remember exactly. My prices were exactly the same as when we billed the bank directly. I know the idiot in Detoilet marked up my invoices. And I know the idiots at Viox marked up his invoices.
> 
> Totally asinine.


It's really not nice to call the Plowlord names...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> It's really not nice to call the Plowlord names...


SKWBE...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> It's really not nice to call the Plowlord names...


That was when I first learned the ways of NSP's and wannabes. It was Dave whateverhisnameis from PGMS.

They owed me about $800. That's when the excuses started:

We didn't receive your sheets. That's too bad...but here's a copy of our fax log that shows it was sent AND received.

We changed billing systems that month: I don't care. Not my problem. Pay the bill.

That person isn't in the office right now: Again, I don't care...pay the bill.

That person is on vacation: Not my problem...pay the bill.

After a few months of this BS, we sent everything to the dude from Viox. He was pissed. We got our check from PGMS in less than a week. lol


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> One reason I know some\all don't save the customer money is from way back when we worked for 5/3 Bank.
> 
> They hired Viox Services for building, landscaping and snow management. We were contacted by some idiot out of Detoilet to bid on a bunch of branches. Might have been continue on with the ones we had, I don't remember exactly. My prices were exactly the same as when we billed the bank directly. I know the idiot in Detoilet marked up my invoices. And I know the idiots at Viox marked up his invoices.
> 
> Totally asinine.


Yea
I've got another clearing job I sent someone (I think it was dentco) for a fire lane than had been totally overgrown 
I ALREADY sent the bid to the customer directly two months before being contacted by the nsp 
I sent them the saaame bid 
And for whatever reason THIS time the work was authorized!

Mind boggling 
Our shop is 7 minutes from the customer 
We're tye biggest name with the best rep in town, they contacted us directly... nope gontge NSP route.. it wasn't even a "contract" really just a one day job.


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## almostxcstar (Jun 13, 2019)

Took a post office contract though National Maintenance this past season...knew it was a bad idea. Price was too low, but the site was super small with no place to put snow. Like not one single open space. Piles had to be removed after every storm. So the hauling was going to supplement the seasonal price. Post master said that, company said that, contract allowed it upon request.

So the first storm we hauled within 24 hours. Getting paid for that additional service was 2-3 month fight...but they were going to set up an automatic dispatch for hauling..empty promises/unanswered emails/ etc....never happened. Results were an unhappy post master with snow piles on the lot and mail trucks parked on the street. We made little to no money throughout the season. 

They are currently late on the final payment (today is June 12, payment was to be mailed by May 31) for snow removal services and they’re ignoring emails. Late without reason/response on the last payment usually means it’s never going to come without a legal battle.

Anyone else in this boat? Enough for a class action? ‍♂


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

almostxcstar said:


> Took a post office contract though National Maintenance this past season...knew it was a bad idea. Price was too low, but the site was super small with no place to put snow. Like not one single open space. Piles had to be removed after every storm. So the hauling was going to supplement the seasonal price. Post master said that, company said that, contract allowed it upon request.
> 
> So the first storm we hauled within 24 hours. Getting paid for that additional service was 2-3 month fight...but they were going to set up an automatic dispatch for hauling..empty promises/unanswered emails/ etc....never happened. Results were an unhappy post master with snow piles on the lot and mail trucks parked on the street. We made little to no money throughout the season.
> 
> ...


The longer I'm in business, the more i hate national management companies.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

I took a Verizon from them one time, should of known better but it was actually good money and wouldn't break me if they were slow paying. Took me 2 days to read the contract but went with it. I had to threaten them but got my money. Would I do it again, NO.


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## FourDiamond (Nov 23, 2011)

almostxcstar said:


> Took a post office contract though National Maintenance this past season...knew it was a bad idea. Price was too low, but the site was super small with no place to put snow. Like not one single open space. Piles had to be removed after every storm. So the hauling was going to supplement the seasonal price. Post master said that, company said that, contract allowed it upon request.
> 
> So the first storm we hauled within 24 hours. Getting paid for that additional service was 2-3 month fight...but they were going to set up an automatic dispatch for hauling..empty promises/unanswered emails/ etc....never happened. Results were an unhappy post master with snow piles on the lot and mail trucks parked on the street. We made little to no money throughout the season.
> 
> ...


The site didn't happen to be in Scranton, PA, did it? We plowed for them for two seasons at a Verizon location, always got paid but slow. The biggest headache was endless employee turnover.


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## almostxcstar (Jun 13, 2019)

FourDiamond said:


> The site didn't happen to be in Scranton, PA, did it? We plowed for them for two seasons at a Verizon location, always got paid but slow. The biggest headache was endless employee turnover.


Yes it's in Scranton...I'm amazed you stuck around for a second season. I'd say the biggest headache is being ignored when there is a problem. If I had a dollar for every unanswered email I won't even need to collect the final check


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## FourDiamond (Nov 23, 2011)

almostxcstar said:


> Yes it's in Scranton...I'm amazed you stuck around for a second season. I'd say the biggest headache is being ignored when there is a problem. If I had a dollar for every unanswered email I won't even need to collect the final check


I would find a contact there and keep after them like a dog with a bone. We quoted them $4000 for a seasonal on that site. But the lack of places to put snow was the big issue. I was amused when they kept saying about snow hauling being an additional income stream. Just curious, where were you able to put the snow.


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## almostxcstar (Jun 13, 2019)

Top lot we back dragged and pushed into the lawn, back lot there was a space between two mail trucks. The pile parked in one truck so they needed to move the one next to it to get out.

It was inconvient for them and they asked me directly to remove the snow. Couldn't do it until they set up automatic dispatch for hauling. (Despite email records there was dispute about if the first haul in November was approved...finally got paid for that mid January.) They kept saying once auto haul was setup there would be no issue getting paid.









So every storm we left a pile in the way, took photos of it, and sent them to the company. Let them know we were prepared to haul them as requested by the post master, they just needed to approve it. Then continued to harass them with pictures in the following days as our "money melted away."


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## MIDJERSEY2108 (Oct 20, 2019)

tpendagast said:


> Just dawned on me
> National maintenance systems doesn't have ALL the post offices
> JL does ; who has then sub contracted to (at least) command 7 and national maintenance systems (possibly others) who then sub to actual snow company's
> So a National has subbed multiple nationals to then sub
> ...


WHO IS JL?


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## MFRPropertiesCT (Nov 3, 2016)

We recently walked away, they keep the money skipping companies and currently my lawyer is after them, not a good company no more



yardatwork said:


> Any one on here subcontracted through these guys? I have a couple post offices and have to deal with this company. What a nightmare. 36 page contract, I found errors in the contract and brought it to their attention. They adjusted the contracted to minimalize the headache on their end but created headaches on my end. They seriously call or email daily. They hound the post offices daily. We're all fed up. The want the contractor to do al the dirty work for them. The want me to print out a poster to hang at the post offices stating they are the contracting snow service provider. The constantly want me to print stuff out and take it to the post offices to get signed. Why aren't they just emailing or faxing stuff directly to the post offices. They wanted my to print out google earth shots of the post offices and put an 'x' where I would be pulling up the snow. It just never stops. I don't feel that I should be responsible for using all of my printer ink and a ream of paper for this company. I've dealt with numerous companies over my 18 years of business but have never come across such a horribly run company. I've gone as far as sending nasty grams to them stating to chill the hell out. The post masters keep telling them to stop calling daily. They now want me to download an app so that they can track my every move. I'm at the point where I'm willing to let these post offices go because of National Maintenance Services and their ludicrous business policies. I've had these post office off and on over my 18 years of business. I know the post master personally. We've had a great working relationship and now this company rolls in and tries bullying us into following their policies. These huge maintenance companies are a joke and create so many problems. Anyone else deal with these clowns?


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