# Manual hub hard to turn



## Flipper

Went to turn the hub on the dump today to lock it up as I had to get back up a muddy hill. The passenger side was VERY hard to turn. Ended up using a pair of pliers. Driver's turned no problem. 4x4 did work as the front tires did get power. When returning to freewheel it was just a hard. Any advice? Never had a problem like this before.

Truck had brakes at begining of last winter. Hubs were fine all winter and the few times I have used them this summer. Truck hasn't sat in water or anything.


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## creativedesigns

Try some Fluid Film. Also its good to turn them back n' forth once a week. Leave them on Lock position, so when you need 4x4 it's easier. Just controll it from inside. easy!


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## B&B

What year truck Flip?


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## Doakster

If the hubs are cycled enough they can be hard to turn every now and them, since you just cycled them once, give it a bunch more tries and maybe shoot some lube around the housing and part that pivots. 

When I bought my truck they were very hard to turn, the previous owner probably never manually locked them in, I cylced them a bunch and that's all they need.


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## Flipper

Its an 01, only manual hubs, not the auto ones that can be locked. Same as my 99 which are easy to turn. I will try some spray lube and move it back and forth.

In the winter they stay locked most of the time. Only unlock them when no snow around or making a longer trip.


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## B&B

Flipper;589052 said:


> Its an 01, only manual hubs, not the auto ones that can be locked. Same as my 99 which are easy to turn. I will try some spray lube and move it back and forth.
> 
> In the winter they stay locked most of the time. Only unlock them when no snow around or making a longer trip.


Ok, '99-up...the O-ring is dry in the hub dial...happens often during lack of use.


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## Flipper

So should I try to spray in it, or better to disassemble it now for service? I have taken them apart before, just looking for best solution.


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## B&B

Flipper;589062 said:


> So should I try to spray in it, or better to disassemble it now for service? I have taken them apart before, just looking for best solution.


To do it right and prolong the results yes, I'd pull it apart and grease it. I actually use silicone grease on the O-rings in this type of application instead of wheel bearing/chassis grease....seems to last longer.


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## hydro_37

Flipper;589062 said:


> So should I try to spray in it, or better to disassemble it now for service? I have taken them apart before, just looking for best solution.


Now is the time for a clean and re-grease of the hub. Should be easy since you have done it before. xysport


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## Flipper

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Wasn't trying to be lazy, it was more, would the repair be more effective by taking it apart. It sounds like it will so I will get it done this weekend.


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## dieselpusher

is it bad to leave the hubs locked all the time even when not in 4wd?


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## B&B

newplower;589228 said:


> is it bad to leave the hubs locked all the time even when not in 4wd?


No. Many guys leave them locked all winter on plow dedicated trucks. Me included.

The slight additional wear is negligible.


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## Flipper

Well I guess I haven't taken it apart as far as I needed to. I got the hub off the truck, got te snaprings off and the white spacer along with the inner gear and bearing out. Both the larger thinner spring and the smaller thciher one. 

Now there is a white cup in the hub body the the thicker spring contacts. It is loose but I can't get it to fall out or be pulled out. I am assuming if I get this out I will be able to access the back ot the knob to get it off the hub body and clean lubricate the O-ring.

Any thoughts?


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## B&B

Flip, the nylon assembly that you see at the bottom of the hub is setting on a small "button" that is molded on the neoprene diaphragm that you can't see. This "button" is actually pushed into a small hole of the same diameter as the button and will only be released with a small amount of upward force. If you grasp the nylon assembly with needle nose pliers and pull, it will release and come out of the hub. Like this:


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## ducatirider944

newplower;589228 said:


> is it bad to leave the hubs locked all the time even when not in 4wd?


If it is a plow truck only not that big of a deal because the roads are always slick when you drive it. If your running around on dry pavement with the front hubs locked, just roll down the window and start throughing cash out the window. Just probably about 10-15% worse mpg. extremely hard on front hubs, tie rod ends, ball joints, tires. I always lock in my auto hubs into the manual over ride when plowing. A few years ago the last time I plowed I forgot to unlock them. We had just went to the ultra low sulfer diesel and people were getting lower mpg. I didn't think anything about it when my mileage went from 14.5 mpg to 12.5 mpg just figured it was the new fuel. Well about 5 months later the truck was acting like the front was loose. Took it in to the dealer and dropped about $2250 rebuilding the front end. I was a little pissed because at that time it was only a few thousand miles out of warranty. It was my own fault but still pissed me off.


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## ducatirider944

I don't know how much differance there is between the auto and manual hubs but here is a link with step by step instructions to rebuild the auto locking hubs that ford says can't be serviced! Might be the $350 a pop they get for new ones!

http://guzzle.rbmicro.com/allube.html


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## B&B

ducatirider944;589679 said:


> If your running around on dry pavement with the front hubs locked, just roll down the window and start throughing cash out the window. Just probably about 10-15% worse mpg. extremely hard on front hubs, tie rod ends, ball joints, tires.


While running with the hubs locked will lower MPG's, it is NOT extremely hard on the hubs, tires, and/or tie-rods unless the T-case is also engaged and your actually appying power to the front drive train on hard ground. When the hubs are only locked (withouts the T-case engaged) the front drivetrain isn't having any power applied to it, so it's not "connected" the the rest of the drive train so there is no additional stress or binding caused by it.

If your tie-rods and hubs needed replaced, they needed replaced whether you ran it with the hubs locked or not.

Many newer vehicles out there (Durangos, Dakotas and some Jeeps for example) don't even have a way to disconnect the front drivetrain from the wheels. When the tire turn so does the rest of the front drive train.


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## ducatirider944

B&B;589690 said:


> While running with the hubs locked will lower MPG's, it is NOT extremely hard on the hubs, tires, and/or tie-rods unless the T-case is also engaged and your actually appying power to the front drive train on hard ground. When the hubs are only locked (withouts the T-case engaged) the front drivetrain isn't having any power applied to it, so it's not "connected" the the rest of the drive train so there is no additional stress or binding caused by it.
> 
> If your tie-rods and hubs needed replaced, they needed replaced whether you ran it with the hubs locked or not.
> 
> Many newer vehicles out there (Durangos, Dakotas and some Jeeps for example) don't even have a way to disconnect the front drivetrain from the wheels. When the tire turn so does the rest of the front drive train.


Negative ghost rider! Full time 4wd vehicles of today allow for slippage in the hubs and or the differential. So you mean to tell me that when you lock in your hubs on say a F-350 with a solid front axle you have slippage? where? how? Guarantied I'm a ******* for not paying attention to my truck and not noticing you get bind. Go lock in the front hubs and turn your wheels all the way to the left or right and drive forward. Does your front end jump on dry pavement? Mine does. It is because when you have your front hubs locked the only way you get slippage is slick roads. So where does that pressure on your front end go until it gets to the point where your tires actually give? I would guess it would be ball joints and hubs. It's not that much pressure just probably about 3700 lbs on a diesel like mine.

If it doesn't cause premature wear how come in about 10-12K miles from again being a ******* and leaving my hubs locked on dry pavement. I had to replace my hubs and ball joints and yes I did see how much play was in them and they did need to be replaced at about 40K miles and I damn well make sure I have my hubs unlocked on dry pavement now. I now have 130K and they are still within spec but are getting close to needing to be replaced but that is about 90K on the second set.

This is just my experience first hand. I'm not saying I'm right but logic says I am?


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## B&B

ducatirider944;589727 said:


> Negative ghost rider! Full time 4wd vehicles of today allow for slippage in the hubs and or the differential. So you mean to tell me that when you lock in your hubs on say a F-350 with a solid front axle you have slippage? where? how? Guarantied I'm a ******* for not paying attention to my truck and not noticing you get bind. Go lock in the front hubs and turn your wheels all the way to the left or right and drive forward. Does your front end jump on dry pavement? Mine does. It is because when you have your front hubs locked the only way you get slippage is slick roads. So where does that pressure on your front end go until it gets to the point where your tires actually give? I would guess it would be ball joints and hubs. It's not that much pressure just probably about 3700 lbs on a diesel like mine.
> 
> If it doesn't cause premature wear how come in about 10-12K miles from again being a ******* and leaving my hubs locked on dry pavement. I had to replace my hubs and ball joints and yes I did see how much play was in them and they did need to be replaced at about 40K miles and I damn well make sure I have my hubs unlocked on dry pavement now. I now have 130K and they are still within spec but are getting close to needing to be replaced but that is about 90K on the second set.
> 
> This is just my experience first hand. I'm not saying I'm right but logic says I am?


Never said anything about FULL TIME 4WD vehicles. Thats a completely different system than those of a Super Duty.

You do have "slippage" as you refereed to it...because while with the hubs locked ONLY, the front drivetrain IS connected to the wheels..it's NOT connected at the other end to anything else...because you don't have the T-case engaged. So the front drivetrain can slip or float all it wants. There's nothing to mechanically "lock" it to prevent it.

I think if you understood the workings of a PART TIME 4WD system it would be much more clearer to you as to why ONLY having the hubs locked dosen't add resistance/stress to the steering/drivetrain.


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## ducatirider944

B&B;589735 said:


> Never said anything about FULL TIME 4WD vehicles. Thats a completely different system than those of a Super Duty.
> 
> You do have "slippage" as you refereed to it...because while with the hubs locked ONLY, the front drivetrain IS connected to the wheels..it's NOT connected at the other end to anything else...because you don't have the T-case engaged. So the front drivetrain can slip or float all it wants. There's nothing to mechanically "lock" it to prevent it.
> 
> I think if you understood the workings of a PART TIME 4WD system it would be much more clearer to you as to why ONLY having the hubs locked dosen't add resistance/stress to the steering/drivetrain.


Ok so if there is slippage because the transfer case isn't engaged how come if you jacked up the front of the truck with the hubs locked in and I hold the drivers side wheel you could turn the passanger side wheel?


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## B&B

ducatirider944;589810 said:


> Ok so if there is slippage because the transfer case isn't engaged how come if you jacked up the front of the truck with the hubs locked in and I hold the drivers side wheel you could turn the passanger side wheel?


If you hold one wheel stationary and turn the other WITHOUT the T-case engaged you'll notice that the front driveshaft will spin...thats because it's not connected to anything...since you do not have the T-case engaged. So you have no binding or resistance....

No different than the same situation with the rear axle for example if it has an open type diff. If you raised one rear tire off the ground, thus the other staying stationary on the ground, placed the T-case in neutral, and turned the rear tire that you had in the air...there would be NO RESISTANCE/NO BINDING and the driveshaft would spin...because it's now not mechanically connected to anything...it's simply floating....just like the front with the hubs locked and the T-case disengaged.


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## hydro_37

The transfer case has to be ENGAGED to lock the vehicle into 4 wheel drive. Until the transfer case is engaged there is NO power to the front thus there is no binding.


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## Dissociative

that's true.....the slippage comes from what they call an "open differential" you know the spider gears that allow the inside tire to turn faster than the outside tire (same way a rear diff works in cars or light duty trucks) that's called an OPEN differential all trucks come stock with that in front...........you absolutely get NO ILL EFFECTS from locking hubs with t-case dis-engaged...but a slight decrease in mileage...that's it...and only because your spinning the axle inside the front diff and that sucks a tiny bit of power..

and the only reason you get binding on tight turns is not from front wheel side to side differences...it's from the rotations from the back wheels to the front...they are locked via the t-case...so if you measure how many inches the back wheels travel in a turn -vs- the front INSIDE turning wheel you would notice the front turns less....thus the jumping...it's from being locked 1:1 with the REAR differential that makes it hop....nothing at all to do with the opposite front wheel...when you disconnect the t-case the front tires spin at what ever speed they need to...completely independent from rear wheels...thus no more jumping..

here's an exercise...turn your truck hard left...then have someone slowly drive forward and chalk a line center of tire as they drive 10 feet...do all 4 tires.drive about 2 feet...chalk all 4 drive 2 more feet....then go and measure those lines...you will see the inside front is SIGNIFICANTLY shorter than the outside rear....but not that much shorter than the outside front..that's where it comes in..

need more proof....take out your rear drive shaft and put in 4x4....drive around...locked hubs...no hopping at all...hmmmmm..because it's an open differential and allows for different spins speeds of the two tires it's driving....

now lockers and posi's are a whole different ball game...but both work ONLY UNDER POWER...so if t-case is disengaged they still work same as open diff's..


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## Flipper

I broke an rear driveshaft u -joint once and drove all the way home, about 30 miles in 4x4 engaged front wheel drive. It drove just like a front wheel drive car. A bit of torque steer but otherwise unoticable.


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