# Advice on right equipment for the job needed



## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

I care take a house at 8300ft in the mountains above Santa Fe, New Mexico. The National Weather Service state that there is anywhere between 40 and 160 inches of snow a year with an average year having 80 inches. It is hard to gauge how much snow in the on average 6 or so "big events" but I would put it around 9 to 18 inches each. The many smaller events are not an issue. This past winter the main snow fell in December where there was 38 inches over the course of 2 weeks. The road up the side of the hill is 1.6 miles long with the first 1.2 miles mainly south facing and usually cleaned by the neighbor. The last 0.4 miles or about 2100ft is my responsibility and is the north facing part of the road. The road is as narrow as 8.5ft in places and a little wider in others with sharp curves. 2 years ago, I cleaned the road with a Honda Foreman ATV 450ES with a Cycle Country plow with a WARN winch kit. In a few storms the Honda could not push the snow which required plowing a few feet and then digging the snow off the road with a shovel and then continuing clearing the road that way. On average even if the Honda could push the snow, it would require at least 5 hours of work with the Honda sometimes in 16 degrees as my job entailed that a lot of the plowing was done at night. This past winter the road was cleaned by someone who does snow clearing as a side job. He used a Chevy 1500 4x4 double cab truck with a basic plow. The truck had dedicated snow tires with heavy duty chains. Certain storms would require plowing a few feet and then digging the snow of the road with a shovel etc. His comment is that it is very dangerous to plow the road with a truck as the road is narrow and the truck tends to slide. The drop on the side of the road is considerable. The Honda was stolen this past year requiring me to purchase new equipment for this winter. I was considering something like a 2nd hand Toyota Tundra V8 with 282hp motor. The truck would then have other uses as well. I am not sure what plow to purchase and would appreciate any advice. I also thought that a snow blower in addition for when the snow is too deep for the truck and considered the Honda HS1132TA is an option. I was concerned that it may take considerable time with the HS1132TA for a 2100ft driveway. All of the snow blowers that are truck mounted seemed to be too problematic based on reviews that I read as well as too expensive to be considered. A few other things to be considered. The neighbor may not be there which would require the full 1.6 miles to be plowed although there is less snow on this section and it is south facing. If I am not staying at the house, it means cleaning on the weekends which means a week between plowings. If I am staying at the house, I need to get to work without too much fuss as I am a school teacher. The problem with the commercial guys in Santa Fe is that you can be snowed in while you wait for them to get there.

Any advise would be appreciated on the whether the truck / HS1132TA snow blower would be a good combination and if so what sort of plow should I mount on the truck. Or are there any other suggestions of what sort of equipment to purchase or am I asking too much from any equipment given the circumstances and options that I referred to above.


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## tinffx (Jun 5, 2009)

Any truck should work. Also, if you are supposed to get a lot of snow stay at the house (I am assuming you have the option). Hit it before you go to bed & then get up early and plow it again in the morning. This should keep it from getting too deep. Its also a lot easier to push snow when it is freshly fallen. When it sits around it tends to compact under its own weight. When you are pushing light snow you shouldn't slide around too much. Also make sure you load the truck right with some form of ballasts in the bed. It helps the handling a lot. Also, its a lot easier to plow downhill in my opinion, so start at the top.


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## jomofo (Apr 26, 2008)

I'd take that guys comment about the narrow road to heart... For those types of events you won't need a big truck anyway, unless you decide to try moving all 18" at one time. Go for a short narrow truck with a plow that is only wide enough to plow your tracks when making normal turns... Making a tight 180 degree turn will require a couple of runs at it regardless to really get it clean anyway.


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## M1N1TRK (Dec 30, 2008)

Another question I have to ask is why do you need to stop and shovel out the road at certain points????? is there no place to pushthe snow to as you drive up the road????

If thats the case then i would look into getting a small V-plow that you can break through the drifts or piles as you go and then that way you have to stop and shovel what a plow should be able to take care of.

Also I would take the comment about staying at the place during the storm or which ever and plowing "DOWN" the road where that is usually a little easier to do then it is to plow "UP" the road, let gravity help along the way


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

Thank you for all the advice. There is nowhere to push the snow except the parking lot at the house as the road is so narrow. Basically if the blade is always angled that the snow ends up on the cliff side, some of it ends up falling down the cliff. If too much snow ends up on the other side (mountain side) of the road, by February, the road ends up getting narrower due to the snow banks. If one uses the V shaped plow, wont too much snow end up on the mountain side?

Do I have it correct that everybody agrees that the truck is a better option than buying another ATV (the ATV with plow, winch etc will cost about $12,000)?

I understand about the narrow short truck and the excellent advice about the width of the plow. Can anybody recommend a plow manufacturer for these circumstances?

In the event that I am unable to plow when the snow falls, but only on the weekend and in the event that the snow is then deep, will the Honda HS1132TA snow blower do the job or is it too small for the 2100ft driveway?


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

After much research I am now looking at a 2nd hand Bobcat S185 Skid-Steer Loader with a new SB200 snow-blower which has a 66" clearing width. Various people including contractors who have cleared the road with a plow tell me the snow-blower will be safer as we will be "cutting through" the snow and getting it off the road as opposed to pushing it on that narrow dangerous road. (the house owner does not want to have a truck on the property anyway as the garage is not big enough to house it, but there is enough space for the Bobcat). According to Bobcat, that Skid-Steer snow-blower combination is so powerful that one will be able to move forward through an 18" snowfall at a rate of 2 to 3 miles per hour. This Skid-Steer is also very reliable according to Bobcat so given the 50 hours of use a year, wont result in much maintenance costs. Can anybody out there who has used a similar skid-steer snow-blower combination confirm the ability to move forward at 2 to 3 miles per hour as well as the reliability?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

The Skid mounted blower would have to be about the best option. Big money though, especially with a heated cab.


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks 2COR517. Price not to bad with a 2nd hand Bobcat, not a whole lot more than a new ATV, which is what we had before, which was a total waste of time. The ATV took 5 hours to clean 0.3 miles of road and it was brutally cold after being out there for 5 hours.


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

Anybody have any experience with how reliable a Bobcat Skid-Steer S185 is?


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Good move.

Just be careful you dont spin that thing off the side of the cliff. Have you ever operated a skid steer before?

How many hours on the machine?


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

SantaFe snowman;792117 said:


> Anybody have any experience with how reliable a Bobcat Skid-Steer S185 is?


pound for pound/ dollar for dollar possibly the best skid ever made IMO. I have went to tracks for reasons other than snow but I have had 2 185's and my dad has had 1 also, amongst some other people i know, all have had nothing but good to say about em.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow etc.*



SantaFe snowman;789133 said:


> I care take a house at 8300ft in the mountains above Santa Fe, New Mexico. The National Weather Service state that there is anywhere between 40 and 160 inches of snow a year with an average year having 80 inches. It is hard to gauge how much snow in the on average 6 or so "big events" but I would put it around 9 to 18 inches each. The many smaller events are not an issue. This past winter the main snow fell in December where there was 38 inches over the course of 2 weeks. The road up the side of the hill is 1.6 miles long with the first 1.2 miles mainly south facing and usually cleaned by the neighbor. The last 0.4 miles or about 2100ft is my responsibility and is the north facing part of the road. The road is as narrow as 8.5ft in places and a little wider in others with sharp curves. 2 years ago, I cleaned the road with a Honda Foreman ATV 450ES with a Cycle Country plow with a WARN winch kit. In a few storms the Honda could not push the snow which required plowing a few feet and then digging the snow off the road with a shovel and then continuing clearing the road that way. On average even if the Honda could push the snow, it would require at least 5 hours of work with the Honda sometimes in 16 degrees as my job entailed that a lot of the plowing was done at night. This past winter the road was cleaned by someone who does snow clearing as a side job. He used a Chevy 1500 4x4 double cab truck with a basic plow. The truck had dedicated snow tires with heavy duty chains. Certain storms would require plowing a few feet and then digging the snow of the road with a shovel etc. His comment is that it is very dangerous to plow the road with a truck as the road is narrow and the truck tends to slide. The drop on the side of the road is considerable. The Honda was stolen this past year requiring me to purchase new equipment for this winter. I was considering something like a 2nd hand Toyota Tundra V8 with 282hp motor. The truck would then have other uses as well. I am not sure what plow to purchase and would appreciate any advice. I also thought that a snow blower in addition for when the snow is too deep for the truck and considered the Honda HS1132TA is an option. I was concerned that it may take considerable time with the HS1132TA for a 2100ft driveway. All of the snow blowers that are truck mounted seemed to be too problematic based on reviews that I read as well as too expensive to be considered. A few other things to be considered. The neighbor may not be there which would require the full 1.6 miles to be plowed although there is less snow on this section and it is south facing. If I am not staying at the house, it means cleaning on the weekends which means a week between plowings. If I am staying at the house, I need to get to work without too much fuss as I am a school teacher. The problem with the commercial guys in Santa Fe is that you can be snowed in while you wait for them to get there.
> 
> Any advise would be appreciated on the whether the truck / HS1132TA snow blower would be a good combination and if so what sort of plow should I mount on the truck. Or are there any other suggestions of what sort of equipment to purchase or am I asking too much from any equipment given the circumstances and options that I referred to above.


=================================================================

for the amount you want to invest a Kubota with a full cabin and a front blower would be a better way to go as the kubota deals are 0 percent for 60-72 months and having a four wheel drive tractor with heated cab will allow you to work quickly and remove all the snow and get rid of it the first time.

a Kubota B3030 with a sixty inch blower would suit you well.

no I not have any business with kubota inc. I know that thier machines are great work horses.:waving:


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice Guys ... greatly appreciated. I will look into the price of Kabuto tractor. JohnnyRoyale, I have never operated a skid-steer but will practice before the snow arrives starting in the parking area which is safe. Thanks for your concern. As to the hours, Bobcat said the machine has 3300 hours, but they say it was a landscaping company that used it and that it was not that heavy a type of work, plus Bobcat say that they knew that the landscaping company did all their services etc and that is why they recommend this machine. Bobcat say they if they dont recommend a machine they send it to action, but I dont know how much sales talk I am getting. In addition they say as I am only using it 50 hours a year, the machine will last. But this is the bit I am concerned about ... a 2nd hand machine. Do you think that I will be ok with this machine given what I described above?


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*Here kitty kitty kitty, smack!!!*



SantaFe snowman;792225 said:


> Thanks for all the advice Guys ... greatly appreciated. I will look into the price of Kabuto tractor. JohnnyRoyale, I have never operated a skid-steer but will practice before the snow arrives starting in the parking area which is safe. Thanks for your concern. As to the hours, Bobcat said the machine has 3300 hours, but they say it was a landscaping company that used it and that it was not that heavy a type of work, plus Bobcat say that they knew that the landscaping company did all their services etc and that is why they recommend this machine. Bobcat say they if they dont recommend a machine they send it to action, but I dont know how much sales talk I am getting. In addition they say as I am only using it 50 hours a year, the machine will last. But this is the bit I am concerned about ... a 2nd hand machine. Do you think that I will be ok with this machine given what I described above?


================================================================

With that amount of hours I would ask for a prepaid maintenance plan and if they agree buy it.

A bobcat and or case will have the potential for frame cracks around the spindles for wheels. I would ask about taking off all four wheels and look at the side frames- also pour alcohol over and around the spindles to look for cracksas the spindle mounting areas may have cracks.

the bushings used to support the drive arms and bucket functions will be worn.

The hydraulics are another sore subject, a cessna axial piston motor if used has a closed center hydraulic system and has a high replacement cost. The cylinders in most cases are either very hard to repair or are disposable;the other issue is that they are not equiped with stop tubes in the cylinders to prevent stuck pistons in the barrels from overtravel-and they do not retract after that because the oil port is blocked-the dump cylinder is prone to do that unless a stop tube is installed.

The piston pump shaft seal is another worry as it is not exposed and can be leaking.

the valves controlling the forward-reverse oil flow and to the hydraulic accessory attachment valve could be leaking and would not show up very easily if it was washed.

The cylinder bushings and pins are another issue with those many hours they are or may be pretty worn.

The boom arm bushings(the two at the end of the boom arms on both sides are another worry with this many hours.

Not knowing what shape the radiator is in is another issue with that many hours I would be worried about a plugged core and bad thermostat.

If that kitty cat has a hydraulic oil cooler I would check its mounting and I would pour some rubbing alcohol over the exposed tubing to see if there are any possible cracks that may be leaking

I would ask to leave it running a while and then raise the seat and expose the plumbing under the seat and use a high power flashlight to look for leaks.

I would not go near it unless they have maintenance records to prove the work they have done and receipts for parts either.

=================================================================

With all the new Kubota sales specials I would walk away if it were me- and it has been me.

:waving:


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Sorry, but I'm going to say you will still be better off with a plow on the truck. As for the road being narrow - angle the plow to put the snow toward the dropoff and build a berm during the small snows in the beginning. Do not angle toward the hill/mountain as that just creates several problems. Go into the curve kind of in the middle till you can judge where you get the best effect. Take it relatively slow and don't plow like a maniac. If you can usually get through, you'll still be able to. Plow every 6-8". Then the berm will keep you on the road in case the road is slick. Your bigger problem will be getting later snow to go "up and over" the berms. Take it easy on the curves and speed up on the straightaways to give the snow "umph". 

I've done plenty of narrow roads and dealt with poorly maintained, steep roads with sharp curves. Haven't driven off one yet. 

The truck will do in five minutes what the snowblower will take an hour or the Bobcat/tractor loader will take 1/2 hour. I've had to use a tractor and loader. Yes, it's got power but it was slow going dumping snow off the side every few feet. And it didn't do a very good job. I'd still come back with the truck to clean up.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow removal etc.*

I have to disagree due to many factors,

Poor visibility due to low ground height in a truck is still a problem unless you have HID lights and a camera system.

A snow blower will remove it the first time and get rid of it period-it may take a bit longer but the problem will be gone.

The tractor and blower can be locked up and stored at the end of the road somewhere as well.

If the road is poorly demarcated as far as reflector posts or snow fence barrier to show the shoulder location that is a problem in any case.

A small tractor blower like the B3030 or BX2660 with a drivers cabin with two blowers front and rear can move tremendous amounts of packed snow fall with no shoveling!!

Adding more front side and rear lighting is easy with HID 110 volt lights with a small generator attached to the tractor or a high output 12 volt generator on the tractor.

The grain combine light bars offered by Northern tool and equipment would work well with the tractor and a high output alternator as well.

leon


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

leon;792353 said:


> I have to disagree due to many factors,
> 
> Poor visibility due to low ground height in a truck is still a problem unless you have HID lights and a camera system.
> 
> ...


Well, I don't have HID lighting, nor cameras, and I havn't had an issues with visibility for the past five years. And my 97 GMC sits lower than most.

Are you serious about strapping a generator to the tractor for lighting? A couple of Hobbs are quite effective at a reasonable amp draw. And some of the new LED lights give the sun a run for it's money and will work for two years off a watch battery.

Where did that thread go about installing an inverted magnetron flux capacitor overdriven direct laced interwoven user inferface capacitor go?

Just ask...........

Some Timbrens and a Fisher should take care of everything


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*etc.*

I was referring to the fact that the road was not obviously demarcated in some way and with low visibility sight and line of sight illuminated vision is at a premium and an absolute necessity if night plowing is done .

I having spent 22 years underground in zero light conditions in my daily work and it has made me very aware of low light conditions. It is no different in theory than the amount of light used in the surface strip mines on mining shovels using high intensity discharge mercury vapor lighting.

LED lighting is intense at short distances and diffuses quickly rendering them useless as spots and high output flood lights and they are poorly focused.

Capacitors store electrical energy and are useless for low voltage lighting lighting purposes.

I made a simple reference to the use a generator for purpose of lighting as an aid to traveling with an active snow blower in low light or snow storm conditions with high winds.

(If the web master wishes to do so he is welcome to remove my responses)


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks again for all the advice guys. From my extremely limited experience I still think that the getting rid of the snow with a snowblower is better than trying to push it on that road, as long as I can do the 0.3 miles (1600 feet) in less than 1 hour. According to Bobcat I should be able to move forward at 2 to 3 miles an hour in 18" deep snow with the 66" wide snowblower. At this speed I should be able to go once in each direction taking me less than half an hour to do the whole road making me more than a happy man.
As to the truck option, the contractor who plowed the road last winter had to shovel the snow off the road in places as it was too deep for the Chevy 1500 truck with snow tires and chains to push it. It also took hours for the contractor to plow this piece of road. The neighbor who plows the other 1.3 miles said he wont take his truck up this section as the road is too narrow and the snow too deep. There is no place to build berms as the road is too narrow is places. Also the snow on the edge of the road is eroding the edge as it melts in spring making the road even narrower, which is another advantage of getting the snow off using the snowblower. As to the lighting, the ATV had halogen lights up front which gave sufficient light to plow, but yes it is a small vehicle so you are very close to where you are plowing. I put 2 of 35W halogens at the back for reversing and that was also sufficient light to reverse which is only necessary in the parking area. Good point though, I need to check that the Bobcat lighting is better than the ATV, given it is a bigger machine plus the loss of vision due to the cab. I also dont know if the snowblower will reduce visibility due to increased blowing snow?? Leon you are correct that the road is poorly demarcated. With all the snow on it you cant see where the mountain ends or where the ditch starts and ends. In a few places you cant see where the cliff side starts as chamisa bushes in a few places hold the snow up making the road seem wider than it is. I put in reflectors that stand 4 feet tall every 40 feet or so on the mountain side of the ditch. My mental note was then to be about 2 feet away from the reflectors as at that point I would be about where the road meets the ditch. The problem was that the substrate is rock so it was very difficult to get the reflectors in the ground. Even once I did this, some reflectors got buried in snow by mid winter as 3.5 feet wasnt tall enough, some got pushed over by the snow sliding down the mountain or the snow that came off the plow even though I tried to plow most of the snow away from the mountain. I am not sure on how to improve on this except maybe to put each one in the ground with a little concrete which will be a huge job.

I have some work to do to see that I am not buying a bunch of trouble with the 2nd hand Bobcat and new 66" snowblower, but if the machine is good, theory as well from some members advice make me believe that this will still be the safest, most menouverable way to go while getting the snow totally off the road in a reasonable amount of time.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

leon;792518 said:


> ...I was referring to the fact that the road was not obviously demarcated in some way and with low visibility sight and line of sight illuminated vision is at a premium and an absolute necessity if night plowing is done ...


That's why we use driveway markers to mark drop-offs - such as ditches and mountainsides. Mine are 48" of fluorescent orange. By the time they get buried with plowed snow (that doesn't go over the side), I've got a nice bank of snow that I can see over the hood and plow.

I don't have street/pole lights to go by at night.

But, it's your money. Do what you want to do.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*mountain etc.*

Please remember that you will be the one on that mountain road all by yourself and-
its along way back in either direction.........................................................................

You have know idea about the history of the machine and once you buy it ......................

The bobcat saleman makes commision on the sale of that machine-why did he not discuss a new one with a full warranty and full support!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..................

Please remember that "if that Bobcat is still a chain drive for the wheels" "it will break" and you have no way back but to walk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............................................

Like I said unless the dealer is willing to offer a maintenance plan for that thing and offer to check it every couple of weeks do not buy it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...........................

They also neglected to tell you that skid steer loaders will get hung up due to the low ground clearnce and you will have to use the implement to force it out of its stuck position-FYI if it is stuck bad enough the rear of the machine wll be nose diving in the ground when you try to push it back and out.............................................................................

=====================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

Please look at the B3030 snow blower videos on you tube for proof of how well they work
the B3030 has 360 visibility even with two snow blowers running.

With the current sales offers for Kubota and the B3030 being 0% for 72 months for the tractor and snow blowers its a very good deal and buy both blowers will cost you a lot less and less trouble. Adding loaded tires and chains is a must in your situation in any case.

:waving:


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Well, we know all his punctuation keys work.


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

We use a Bobcat S185 in our snow plowing operation. This has proven to be a very reliable piece of equipment. We have used it over four years and not once has it failed us. Repairs in the four plus years have been neglible, mostly related to routine maintenance. We are OK with the standard lighting but your application may call for additional lighting, you'll have to be the judge as you use it. Ours happens to be a low flow machine and if you are going to blow snow I highly reccomend a hi flow machine with a high flow blower attachment, your efficiency will be greatly improved. In additon make sure the machine has specific and preferably deep cleated snow tires on it. Having a set of chains available for your application would also be a good idea. Feel free to e-mail me any questions you might have about the S185.

Herm Witte

www.wittelawn.com

Serving West Michigan Since 1957


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow blower or plow*



leon;792648 said:


> Please remember that you will be the one on that mountain road all by yourself and-
> its along way back in either direction.......
> 
> You have know idea about the history of the machine and once you buy it .......
> ...


 Punctuation is fixed


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

leon;792961 said:


> Punctuation is fixed


LOL


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

Leon,

You seem to be pushing Kubota which is fine. I responded about the Bobcat S185 because of our expierience with that particular machine. FYI, all equipment fails from time to time. We also use a Kubota in our operation and it also is a great machine. I would be comfortable recommending either. Both Kubota and Bobcat are offering great financing options on new. The S185 would be more maneuverable than a tractor. As far as chain drive breaking, we've used various Bobcat skidsteers for over 25 years and never have had a chain issue. I try to keep an open mind about various types of equipment - they all have their place.

Herm Witte

www.wittelawn.com

Serving West Michigan Since 1957


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow etc.*



Herm Witte;793168 said:


> Leon,
> 
> You seem to be pushing Kubota which is fine. I responded about the Bobcat S185 because of our expierience with that particular machine. FYI, all equipment fails from time to time. We also use a Kubota in our operation and it also is a great machine. I would be comfortable recommending either. Both Kubota and Bobcat are offering great financing options on new. The S185 would be more maneuverable than a tractor. As far as chain drive breaking, we've used various Bobcat skidsteers for over 25 years and never have had a chain issue. I try to keep an open mind about various types of equipment - they all have their place.
> 
> ...


=================================================================

I used Kubota equipment for over 20 years underground in use for transport and utility tractors hauling mine supplies.

I am also basing my experience on using both "Bobcat" and Case skid steers underground and the problems we had with broken chain drives and cracked side frame plates around the wheel bearing housings.and thier habit of getting stuck.

As no equipment maintenance history has been offered I immediately became suspect of the dealer and the machine itself.

One burned twice shy, if it seems too good to be true it usually is.

The last thing I have any desire to do is pop the operators cab and have to fish out a broken eighty chain out of an 90 weight oil bath in low light and near zero temperatures and hope I have a spare connector link, chain tensioner, and tie wire to fish the chain through (as my hands are too big) with me along with a replacement chain if needed.

If he buys a Pronovost snowblower instead of an Kubota orange (RAD blower built in Canada) for Kubota and others-its something that is a forever machine that is very productive and dependable like a Mercedes Unimog IMO.

:waving:


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

Herm,

Thank you for your advice. I have read what Leon has said and will price the Kubota option. So far I have looked at a 2nd hand Bobcat S185 with a new SB200 66" snow blower. The unit is being sold by a Bobcat dealer who say they have done a detailed service. The unit has 3300hrs which is high, but the dealer recommends this machine as they say that the unit was used in a landscaping business which was not heavy use and that it was well maintained. They are looking into the maintenance contract option for me. The dealer also said consider 2nd hand as we are only looking at about 30hrs use a year. The road is 0.3 miles long and about 9' wide. The typical big snow is 18" and there are around 12 of these in a typical year. There could be 24 to 30" drifts in the odd place and the road has a gentle slope except in for about 100 feet where it has about a 10% slope with a 5% slope due to the camber. The road has very sharp turns. If I am not at the house, I only get to clear the road on the weekends meaning that there is a thin crust of ice on the surface, but it is soft underneath and the crust is so thin that you cant step on it. It looks like it would be easier to turn the Bobcat around on that road compared to the Kubota. In your opinion would a S185 which is not high flow with the matched SB200 snow blower be able to handle the job? If it could clear the road in less than 1 hour typically then I would be satisfied.

Howard


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

SantaFe snowman;793223 said:


> Herm,
> 
> Thank you for your advice. I have read what Leon has said and will price the Kubota option. So far I have looked at a 2nd hand Bobcat S185 with a new SB200 66" snow blower. The unit is being sold by a Bobcat dealer who say they have done a detailed service. The unit has 3300hrs which is high, but the dealer recommends this machine as they say that the unit was used in a landscaping business which was not heavy use and that it was well maintained. They are looking into the maintenance contract option for me. The dealer also said consider 2nd hand as we are only looking at about 30hrs use a year. The road is 0.3 miles long and about 9' wide. The typical big snow is 18" and there are around 12 of these in a typical year. There could be 24 to 30" drifts in the odd place and the road has a gentle slope except in for about 100 feet where it has about a 10% slope with a 5% slope due to the camber. The road has very sharp turns. If I am not at the house, I only get to clear the road on the weekends meaning that there is a thin crust of ice on the surface, but it is soft underneath and the crust is so thin that you cant step on it. It looks like it would be easier to turn the Bobcat around on that road compared to the Kubota. In your opinion would a S185 which is not high flow with the matched SB200 snow blower be able to handle the job? If it could clear the road in less than 1 hour typically then I would be satisfied.
> 
> Howard


=================================================================
If it was a detailed service ask to see the (parts used list for its repair and the labor tickets).

Just remember that the skid steer is not a zero tail swing machine either and having a blower on the back side of a tractor as well will help more than you know and reduce the time needed for cleaning snow.

If you mounted just a rear snow blower on a BX 2660 with an all weather cab you will have the tractive effort of the rear tires in your favor at all times-especially if the tires are loaded.

you will need snow chains for both the tractor or skid steer loader with those grades preferably steel logger tracks over the rubber wheels on the skid loader-especially with ice under any snow so be sure to consider that issue

FYI adding a pair of pneumatic caster wheels bolted to a small steel frame behind the auger housing will avoid digging into the dirt-the skid shoes are fine but a pair of pneumatic caster wheels aids in turning and keeps the blower level and avoids digging dirt.

In the skid steers case you would have to mount the caster wheels on the side of the auger housing to the rear of the auger bearing as it would not clear the boom and mounting frame.

you have to remember on e hared and fast rule about skid steer loaders; turnng them around on slopes is a no no as they are ment to be operated on a level or near level plane at all times. If you back down the slope the engine adds to the momentum and you will end up doing an end over end over end over end if you stop abruptly ice will make it worse.

FYI back up slopes engine first drive down slopes facing forward.

The front and rear blowers for the Kubota models are PTO driven and not subject to oil any needed direct oil flow.

The front blowers are driven from the high speed mid mount PTO to the gear box on the blower which is used to power the fan and the chain drive of the open flighted auger of the blower, the rear blower is 540 rpm off the PTO to the blower and a reduction gearbox and chain drive for the open flight auger.

if you buy a tractor with a cab a hydraulic rotator for the chute is a must to eliminate gettting in and out of the cab.

Always carry spray cans of WD-40 with you to make the blower more slick to blow the snow farther and faster-does not work with a plow as it will shoot sideways.

The beauty of a tractor mounted blower is the snow can be blown directly in front of it with no issue of overloading the auger and fan as the blower will be driven mechanically at all times with no load on the hydraulic system to power the auger or fan.

Beware the Ides of March 
Caviat Emptor

Please do a search on skid steer loader accidents to see what I am refering to as far as tip overs etc.

Tthere is danger in not knowing what you do not know. Arab proverb


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

leon;793275 said:


> =================================================================
> If it was a detailed service ask to see the (parts used list for its repair and the labor tickets).
> 
> Just remember that the skid steer is not a zero tail swing machine either and having a blower on the back side of a tractor as well will help more than you know and reduce the time needed for cleaning snow.
> ...


couple things there leon....forget the wd-40 that stuff is worthless, get some fluid film.....and the other thing is, are you serious about even comparing a bx2660 to a 56hp skid....I mean come on, I know you want this guy to get a kubota(BTW, I'd like to have one, 50 or 60hp though). But thats like comparing a s10 to a 1ton. If you gonna push him into a kubota, at least mention one that would be more comparable.......your talking about a garden tractor man!!

sounds to me that if the skid checks out & the dealer stands behind it, it would be a good deal....and getting it done with it in under an hour should be NO problem whatsoever. Good luck!!


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks for the advise Leon especially as regards the safety issues. Can you give me the model numbers for the front and rear snow blowers for the Kubota so that I can price them. Snocrete, what exactly is fluid film?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

SantaFe snowman;793311 said:


> what exactly is fluid film?


Here's some reading for you........

http://www.plowsite.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=68


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

...In your opinion would a S185 which is not high flow with the matched SB200 snow blower be able to handle the job? If it could clear the road in less than 1 hour typically then I would be satisfied.

Howard,

I am not familiar with the SB200 snow blower but will reiterate my earlier comment that I recommend a high flow machine with a matched high flow blower based on our experience with a low flow blower and lo flow machine. On the heavier snows our low flow blower pretty much just pukes out the snow. On light fluffy snows low flow will be OK, but you will be disappointed when snow is wet and heavy. I would think about having your dealer look around for a used hi flow machine. You asked for my opinion on this equipment and now you have it. 

Herm Witte

www.wittelawn.com
_
Serving West Michigan Since 1957_


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow etc.*



SantaFe snowman;793311 said:


> Thanks for the advise Leon especially as regards the safety issues. Can you give me the model numbers for the front and rear snow blowers for the Kubota so that I can price them. Snocrete, what exactly is fluid film?


The Kubota web site lists these prices for a 2660
blowers kits
51" rear mount $1,859.00
Rear blower chute rotator $764.00-hydraulic
Rear blower deflector $497-electric 
Drift cutter $104.00
plus shear pins, spare chain and links, plus tax

50" front mount snow blower

Front quick hitch $586.00
Mid PTO kit $605.00
Chute deflector $497.00 elelctric 
Chute rotator $764.00 hydraulic

Decide on which model you want and go from there there is a lot of last years kubota tractor iron still unsold and I would make a lot of phone calls out of state as well as there are bargains to be had on new unused unsold Kubota iron.

My neighbor loves her 4 wheel drive 2350 with a full cab and heater and she loves how it handles under load while mowing and uses a front blower with huge drifting and snow plow pushback messes from the county plows on a huge driveway.

Rear blowers are available for this beast as well, it is referred to as the BX 2360 model this year-but like I said there is a lot of unsold new Kubota iron available and a few phone calls will not hurt. And sales have been made on the old iron with the new rates.

I have an aquaintance that lives on marthas vinyard and he bought his 2350 from Messick Farm Equipment in Lancaster PA because the dealers in massachussetts wanted more money than Neil did- assuming tractors are like autos-everyone pays the same price but the freight cost is the only difference.

As there are so many variables you have to judge what will be needed as you have not specifically mentioned a budget figure.

I used to clean my parents monster driveway with an old hydro cub cadet tractor with a 36 inch single stage snow blower.

it took a while to do but I never had any issues with getting up and down a driveway with a 20 degree slope using chains and never got stuck either.

A tractor with more power than what is needed will not suffer from being bogged down under load and remove the snow quickly.

I mentioned the b3030 4 wheel drive tractor with the factory cab as an option and only an option, The M8540 low profile orchard tractor is another one with either tracks or rubber tires and useable with all implements being more money and more power with superb ground hugging with its low center of gravity.

Buying a tractor or skid loader is an end game decision and your situation is what will determine the choice

I do not know what the quality of the current cub cadets is as they are made by MTD now.
The kubota snow blowers are made by RAD in canada-they biuld blowers and attachments for many lines of equipment.

jobs specific I could have mentioned the Yamaha or Zaugg tracked snow blowers and there would be no issue as they are proven perfomers and remove hundreds of tons of snow per hour etc. hooking up a wheeled sulky or wagon and just following behind the blower etc.

Are you paid to keep the other driveways open as well?, this by itself can add a lot of extra income to you as you did not discuss it.


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

Leon. Thanks for the info. To answer your question on the other driveways? No I just look after this one property. The owner will pay for the equipment. I therefore want to make sure I am recommending the correct equipment for him to buy.


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

Herm Witte;793339 said:


> ...In your opinion would a S185 which is not high flow with the matched SB200 snow blower be able to handle the job? If it could clear the road in less than 1 hour typically then I would be satisfied.
> 
> Howard,
> 
> ...


Herm would you be prepared to give me the specs on your low flow machine and low flow blower as well as your high flow machine and high flow blower so that I can use this to make a comparison to the equipment I will ask the dealer to look for?


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow*



SantaFe snowman;793510 said:


> Leon. Thanks for the info. To answer your question on the other driveways? No I just look after this one property. The owner will pay for the equipment. I therefore want to make sure I am recommending the correct equipment for him to buy.


================================================================

Ok know that I know that part finally; the simplest thing would be for the local kubota dealer to come visit the property and access road only to look at the terrain and only at the terrrain and then recommend the tractor to purchase for your road cleaning situation.
===================================================================The local Kubota dealer will tell you what works and what does not if he is honest about it. 
When you ask the question(what do I need for this?) he or she should not hesitate in responding when he or she looks at the terrain you are required to deal with:
but in you situation the need to for mobility, power, and traction with a piece of snow removal equipment are all tied for first place.

You may need a four wheel drive machine that has its rear tires loaded with rim guard or calcium chloride in the tire tubes.

R4 tires

rear tire chains- none on the front as the chains will not clear the axle.

a machine with a high output alternator for front and rear lights from kubota.

a hard cab with heater and front and rear windsheild wipers.

OR simply buy two 23 horse power cub cadets from lowest or home despot with rear wheel weights or a weight box, two snow blowers, soft cabs, tire chains and snow blowers, and a prepaid maintenance plan leaving one at the top nearby and one at the bottom and be done with it.

Regarding the above you will be way under ten thousand dollars with two cub cadets and the blowers, cabs, wheel weights, spare parts being tire chain repair links, shear pins, gas cans.

Please spend some time on www.tractorbynet.com to learn more about tractors for my own sanity anyway. you will see a lot and learn a lot about a lot of the available machines and the owners expereinces with them; as a side issue neil messick is very approachable either on the tractor bynet board or at his web page www.messickfarmequipment.com


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

SantaFe snowman;793512 said:


> Herm would you be prepared to give me the specs on your low flow machine and low flow blower as well as your high flow machine and high flow blower so that I can use this to make a comparison to the equipment I will ask the dealer to look for?


I PM'ed you and will look for your reply.

Herm Witte


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## Tomas090 (Aug 31, 2008)

I think I would buy a used 1 ton with V blade, install chains, load it with a couple thousand pounds of ballast, shift to low range and slowly push about anything nature wants to drop

Install a 140+ AMP alternator and put as many KC Daylighters as you need to help melt the snow

If that wouldn't push the snow , go for a D 3 and forget it


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## Caveman (Oct 22, 2006)

Maybe get a Unimog High clearance and some are very short My mog has a snow blower to eat snow


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

Thought I would give you some feedback before this snow season as to how it went last year in the hope that this would be of benefit to some people.

I ended up purchasing a 1 year old Bobcat s205 with high flow and a new 72" Bobcat snow blower. The machine had 175 hours on the clock with full remaining factory warranty and I got it at $15,000 less than the new price. Clearing the snow away with a blower was totally the correct decision given the narrow road (9'). In previous year's with plowing, as the berm melted it was washing the edge of the road away. It was totally the correct decision and thank you to all of those who gave me excellent advise in arriving at this decision. We had 134" of snow at the site last year, a record for this location. The Bobcat ate through it like a knife through butter. What took 5 hours with the ATV, took 1 hour with the Bobcat. I could probably have finished the job in 30 minutes except for blowing snow reducing visibility meaning I had to go slower. The only problem came with the heavy snows in late March. Here the Bobcat sank a few inches into the gravel substrate on the road which was totally waterlogged by then, with a result that I was throwing gravel with the snow. Even so, I only had one clog in all that time which was easy to fix. There was some traction loss even with the chains, but no big deal. I used standard chains on front and back wheels as supplied by Bobcat and think that I could do better when these wear out. My only mods I made was to put 2 of magnetic mount halogen spots on the roof of the cab and wire them into the Bobcats wiring harness. I purchase a switch for these from Bobcat. The other essentail item was placing 6' orange reflective snow markers every 20' or so as the blowing snow from the snow blower makes it very difficult to see the edge of the road.


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

SantaFe snowman;1092645 said:


> Thought I would give you some feedback before this snow season as to how it went last year in the hope that this would be of benefit to some people.
> 
> I ended up purchasing a 1 year old Bobcat s205 with high flow and a new 72" Bobcat snow blower. The machine had 175 hours on the clock with full remaining factory warranty and I got it at $15,000 less than the new price. Clearing the snow away with a blower was totally the correct decision given the narrow road (9'). In previous year's with plowing, as the berm melted it was washing the edge of the road away. It was totally the correct decision and thank you to all of those who gave me excellent advise in arriving at this decision. We had 134" of snow at the site last year, a record for this location. The Bobcat ate through it like a knife through butter. What took 5 hours with the ATV, took 1 hour with the Bobcat. I could probably have finished the job in 30 minutes except for blowing snow reducing visibility meaning I had to go slower. The only problem came with the heavy snows in late March. Here the Bobcat sank a few inches into the gravel substrate on the road which was totally waterlogged by then, with a result that I was throwing gravel with the snow. Even so, I only had one clog in all that time which was easy to fix. There was some traction loss even with the chains, but no big deal. I used standard chains on front and back wheels as supplied by Bobcat and think that I could do better when these wear out. My only mods I made was to put 2 of magnetic mount halogen spots on the roof of the cab and wire them into the Bobcats wiring harness. I purchase a switch for these from Bobcat. The other essentail item was placing 6' orange reflective snow markers every 20' or so as the blowing snow from the snow blower makes it very difficult to see the edge of the road.


Howard,

Thanks for the update. I'm so glad you ended up with a high flow machine and blower, you have been well served. Best wishes this winter.


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## leutwitj (Nov 1, 2010)

Santa Fe snowman: Thanks for the final post, I'm glad you are happy with your decision and reading your process has helped me. Out of curiosity, why did you select a skid steer with chains versus a loader with tracks?


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## SantaFe snowman (Jul 22, 2009)

Leuwitj: From all the research that I did, the track machine was considerable more expensive than what I purchased, there was less almost "new" 2nd hand units which had tracks available at all the Bobcat dealers within a 1000 mile radius that I contacted, it seemed like the maintenance on the track machine was going to be considerably more and a number of people had noted that they really did not get that much better traction with a track machine compared to a wheeled machine in the snow. There was no way to tell if the latter was correct without trying the 2 machines out side by side in the snow and that was never going to be feasible. There was an option that I did consider and that was to fit the after market track system to a wheeled machine. Somebody I know well uses this system all the time on river restoration projects as they say they get better "flotation" The reality is that the traction is more than sufficient given my site conditions with the wheeled machine with chains and I have the chains that the Bobcat dealer supplied. I think that when I replace these, that I will do even better with different chains which I will research before I purchase


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