# Sidewalk guys and accounts are killing me!



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

I have 2 condo places each which require sidewalks shoveled. I have already gone through a handful of shovelers (just like last year). No one wants to do them and I cant understand why. Before you all list the cons I'll just say I've done it for years and did it today. I pay per place and they get all of the $$$ billed for each place. A guy even remotley moving can average over 30 BUCKS AN HOUR!!!!! But once again today no answer one the other end. I'm affraid of loosing these accounts because this is one of the first things both places complain about. My God these days you hear of plants closing, 90% of the jobs out there are paying min. wage, the other 10% you need 4 degrees to even apply, where the hell are even one decent guy! Just had to rant! Gotta love LAZY AMERICAussmileyflag:realmad:


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Just a thought but is there any way you can make it easier, like using a 4 wheeler. We use small Kubota 2560's with cab and heat and a tailgate spreader on the rear. We still have handshovelling to do but they don't mind as much getting out once in a while then staying out all night. Maybe your sites all require shovelling only but just a thought.


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## NJ Plowman (Dec 10, 2003)

I am in the same state of awe here in Jersey. I offer to pau my guys $150 cash per 8 hour day to shovel sidewalks (only about a third of that 8 hours is actually soent working!) and they do it once or twice and then tell m,e it's not worth it and they ask for $300 per day. What's wrong with these people? 


I am going to have to find more Mexicans...


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

Welcome to the world of LAZY.
People want crap handed to them instrad of working. Just look at the Auto Bailout crapola.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

NJ Plowman;696424 said:


> I am in the same state of awe here in Jersey. I offer to pau my guys $150 cash per 8 hour day to shovel sidewalks (only about a third of that 8 hours is actually soent working!) and they do it once or twice and then tell m,e it's not worth it and they ask for $300 per day. What's wrong with these people?
> 
> I am going to have to find more Mexicans...


When i was a little younger if youd offered me $150/8hrs i would have asked if i could work 3 shifts back to back


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## Hunter9 (Jul 7, 2006)

cretebaby;696541 said:


> When i was a little younger if youd offered me $150/8hrs i would have asked if i could work 3 shifts back to back


x2 for sure.


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## kootoomootoo (May 11, 2000)

$150 for 8 hrs sounds good if its every day....but its not everyday ..hence the problem.


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## ezover (Dec 22, 2008)

NJ Plowman;696424 said:


> I am in the same state of awe here in Jersey. I offer to pau my guys $150 cash per 8 hour day to shovel sidewalks (only about a third of that 8 hours is actually soent working!) and they do it once or twice and then tell m,e it's not worth it and they ask for $300 per day. What's wrong with these people?
> 
> I am going to have to find more Mexicans...


lets see, 
depending on the temp, that can be nasty. most people dont have the clothes to work outdoors that long. 8 hours of back breaking work. opps lets not forget i would have to pay all the taxes on that. not all of us are trying to scam the system. also if i were to fall and break my leg, you paying the hospital bill?

i would take a job working a shop floor for 12 bucks an hour before i would do that.

if i had no other job, i would do it. heck i would do it once or twice as a 2nd job to help my income, cant see doing it more then that if i had a reg job.

and i sure wish they would lock up employers/contractors who hire illeagls 
thats my 2 cents.
your best bet would be to find some 16 to 25 year olds, i cant see many people over 35 doing that.


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

NJ Plowman;696424 said:


> I am in the same state of awe here in Jersey. I offer to pau my guys $150 cash per 8 hour day to shovel sidewalks (only about a third of that 8 hours is actually soent working!) and they do it once or twice and then tell m,e it's not worth it and they ask for $300 per day. What's wrong with these people?
> 
> I am going to have to find more Mexicans...


 Just wait til about a year from now when the unemployment rate hits around 30-50%...they will be begging you for that wage!

Back in the mid to late 90's I ran 3 walk crews, 2 men each. I paid 30-$35 per hr only because it was that important to me for them to be handled. I soon learned that $$ just didn't motivate some people, at least until they ran out of drinking money...then it was a whole different story.

I now avoid contracts w/ walks like the plague, because of the hassle. If I had to do it over again, one thing that I would do is keep a revolving list of names for back up. Two or three strikes and their out (only 1 for a no show)...on to the next one. As much as I hate to say it, the Mexicans would probably be my first choice, as they don't complain and seldom have ever let me down.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

ezover;696569 said:


> .
> 
> and i sure wish they would lock up employers/contractors who hire illeagls
> thats my 2 cents.


Who said they were illegal?


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

cretebaby;696578 said:


> Who said they were illegal?


Ditto...


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

NJ Plowman;696424 said:


> I am in the same state of awe here in Jersey. I offer to pau my guys $150 cash per 8 hour day to shovel sidewalks (only about a third of that 8 hours is actually soent working!) and they do it once or twice and then tell m,e it's not worth it and they ask for $300 per day. What's wrong with these people?
> 
> I am going to have to find more Mexicans...


lol, yeah i've found that using snow blowers for anything more than an inch of fluffy stuff is the way to go. No body wants to shovel, not all day long. I have them shovel steps and corners but thats it, everything else the blowers handle. seems to help with keeping your guys longer.


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## jjmcnace (Dec 6, 2007)

I have a hard time finding sidewalk guys here also. There is a fair amount of walks to do. This year I went to the expense of buying a trailer and a nice big snow blower and have an extra truck for the sidewalk guy to pull the trailer w/snowblower with. I pay him $225 everytime it snows and it takes him about 4hrs to finish. There is some hand shoveling on some stairs. We got hammered here last year and I wore out my first sidewalk guy. He had his own snowblower and truck at least.

I asked 4 or 5 people that I trusted enough to rely on before my BROTHER offered to do it this year. The reason it's hard to find someone is because most people have to go to work after they get done. I have raised the prices on the properties that want sidewalks done on top of the parking lots. Maybe they'll quit me and find someone cheaper : ) 

I cleaned snow for 4 years and also had a full time job to go to after I was done. But that's just me and I like money!


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## Xforce 1 (Dec 29, 2008)

I have the very same problem. The condo's here at the Lake of the ozarks, Mo., all consist of stair towers. Simply go to the top and shovel down simply not shoveling a lot of snow. In most cases, we can use a backpack blower to blow them off. I run a crew of 6 guys avg. and have 2 warriors, the rest are lazy and work harder to get outa work. But I garauntee they will be the first to gripe, complain, and have a fit because they are broke! I have a guy that has 3 kids and a wife. He simply won't do nothing if he can't have a truck. Well needless to say, I don't know what he's doing now. He was one of them you knew couldn't handle a plow, biggest plow he needed was a shovel! By the way, he's only 25.:realmad:


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

Any of you guys ever try using back pack blowers...for 1-2" of fluff they work great on steps and irregular walks, like field stone, gravel, etc. They can save a lot of time, 2-3 times faster than a shovel.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

ezover;696569 said:


> lets see,
> depending on the temp, that can be nasty. most people dont have the clothes to work outdoors that long. 8 hours of back breaking work. opps lets not forget i would have to pay all the taxes on that. not all of us are trying to scam the system. also if i were to fall and break my leg, you paying the hospital bill?
> 
> i would take a job working a shop floor for 12 bucks an hour before i would do that.
> ...


Who cares about the temp? Stop at a tractor supply store or some place similar and spend $100 bucks on proper clothes... illegals, at least they work and I'll bet anyone on here will attest to the fact that they are not paid any less than there legal counterpart. If I wasn't in a tractor, I'd have no problem shoveling with the guys. For that matter, I have joined them as soon as I've finished my route. 
It was great excercise and fresh air. You can have your shop floor work for $12 an hr. To stand all day in a plant, I'd reach for the nearest gas pipe, couldn't do it.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

blowerman;696598 said:


> Who cares about the temp? Stop at a tractor supply store or some place similar and spend $100 bucks on proper clothes... illegals, at least they work and I'll bet anyone on here will attest to the fact that they are not paid any less than there legal counterpart. If I wasn't in a tractor, I'd have no problem shoveling with the guys. For that matter, I have joined them as soon as I've finished my route.
> It was great excercise and fresh air. You can have your shop floor work for $12 an hr. To stand all day in a plant, I'd reach for the nearest gas pipe, couldn't do it.


Ditto on every word of that


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## ezover (Dec 22, 2008)

*fast*

must be a slow day , lots of fast responses.

as for the Mexican thing, i felt it was implied.

i think a 18$ an hour job with no benis is great for a kid, young adult. for someone with a family i,ll still take the 12 hr steady job with ins. 
and if i had no other choice, i would do it. 
i was just trying to show the other side of the coin.

i make more then that as it is, i do 55 to 60 hours in 4 days on one job then i work another 2 more days a week. I'm pretty sure most people would not say I'm lazy.

*and, again just trying to show the other side*.

one other thought, could be the area your trying to pull the help from. i know my brother in law keeps his shop on a certian side of town because he feels the help is more dependable over there.


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## ford550 (Nov 9, 2008)

> Who cares about the temp? Stop at a tractor supply store or some place similar and spend $100 bucks on proper clothes... illegals, at least they work and I'll bet anyone on here will attest to the fact that they are not paid any less than there legal counterpart. If I wasn't in a tractor, I'd have no problem shoveling with the guys. For that matter, I have joined them as soon as I've finished my route.
> It was great excercise and fresh air. You can have your shop floor work for $12 an hr. To stand all day in a plant, I'd reach for the nearest gas pipe, couldn't do it.


X3 on that. My guys get paid more than $12 per hour to shovel and they are "LEGAL" mexicans, they don't say a word, even when that snow turns to ice then to rain and rain and rain, and we are all soaking wet. They always ask for more. That's how you work!!!!!!!!


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## fci (Sep 7, 2008)

Years ago I used labor companies, they supply the labors and you supply the shovels. They will take care of taxes and Workman's comp. They have a 6 hour min. around $16 per hour. If you don't like their work they will send out a replacement. Try labor force, or man power.


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## ford550 (Nov 9, 2008)

> Years ago I used labor companies, they supply the labors and you supply the shovels. They will take care of taxes and Workman's comp. They have a 6 hour min. around $16 per hour. If you don't like their work they will send out a replacement. Try labor force, or man power.


I did that years ago when I was just strating out. I forgot about suggesting that. It's actually a very nice way to go. Very simple. Good suggestion.


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

If youre hiring american, that is the problem.


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## TPC Services (Dec 15, 2005)

have ran in to the same problem there to so many people out of work construction wise.
An now I know why their the lazy ones that these guys cut lose for the winter.
Paying them top pay also 



you having them run snow blowers also or all just hand shovel I had two large Twnhm's properties last year we used both snowblowers and hand work,

I've put out two differant craigslist labor adds out and had to take them back off with in the day would get like a dozen hits in 8hrs. had two clowns tell me theylive 10mins away from my large commercial properties, when I meet them and had them sign their paper work they change their story and now lived 20mins away let it slide untell I had to call them and got this out of them.

The roads are bad here and we woul'nt be able to get there, WTF I got two guys that live half hour to a hour away that made it
when they finnaly got here tthey ***** about the pay and the hrs they got at noon time to my #1 guy and that I should go to my ccommercial clients lease clients in the building my client owns and get paid by them now!! instead of my commerical client that ownes the building s (WOW) told them if they would have shown up at 2am like I call them they would have had 10hrs instead of 2hrs. fired them that night after my #1 guy told me that.

he keeps telling me I should just hire hispanic's , but I'm still holding out hope that there's some white boys out there that want to work for there money and make a good living,!!!


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

I have had the same problem and again I find myself in agreement withJDdave make every aspect of shoveling automated if possible. 4wheelers blowers anything you can possibly buy to make it easier for them that has worked the best for me.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

I have to agree with JDdave as well. Try and make it easier on the guys with the use of snow blowers etc. 

Also I'd recommend putting them on a payroll not cash that day deal. This way you can have a hold back for a week or two (just like normal jobs) and have them sign a contract that has a penalty fee come off their checks for no shows without a valid reason. Be careful on the wording, dont get yourself in trouble.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Well, first off we haven't had a "normal" winter to say the least. Its been either heavy wet snow in several inches an hour, rain and freezing rain right after or during a snow fall or just so freakin windy (like 40mph winds all day). They are paid per place because I got sick of paying some one 20 bucks an hour to go as slow as possible but I also dont let it get to more than a few inches after I start calling them out. They have a brand new Ariens 26" 10hp snow blower to use at one of the places and the rest are too small for a snow blower. The route is very tight with only about 5-10 minutes between sites. I dont know, one of the guys called me at 6pm yesterday and said his phone died and the battery was shot and he had to get a new battery. Like you couldn't call me at some point sooner?


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

im paying 15 per hour payup 


and i have the best crew i have ever had, they move and get the stuff done quickly, they ask me for more work

so heres what i found works well for me , 

Find guys that already work in the cold, and need the money .... most of my guys are roofers...whom get laid off ...whom all have families to support , and need the coin. they dont have the time , or even a computer to look on Craigslist. some didnt know there own cell phone number...a few i had to buy a phone for

They are already use to hard work , and cold crappy conditions, so not too many complaints

Cothing was a little issue, i ofered heavy jackets to most, that would be taken out of their first 5 checks , if they needed it...most came prepared, and if they didnt the firststorm , by the 2nd or 3rd...they learned to


i give a "bonus" reallly i pay then 9 per hour, then provided them with 6 per hour bonus. I told them plain and simple.... i will treat you , like you treat me. I dont have time to deal with "i cant make it , or im drunk, or not picking up the phone" we always call the night before to put guys on standby , and let them know the game plan. If they say yes they can work , and they dont come the $6 per hour bonus...becomes my bonus for 30 days prior.... so baiscly if they screw me , they lose alot of money

I told them if they walk in the middle of a storm , you mightas well never call me again , because im gonna make you jump thru more hoops to get your last check way more then you think possible. and again that $6 bonus...becomes mine

If you decided that its not for you , finish the night , shake my hand, and you will be paid proptly, including your bonus

a few other things... give them some shop time... i know it eatssome budgets, and im not talking about everyday , but let them come in 1 day every 2 weeks, it keeps them feeling like a part of the company, and like they have a job with you , rather than being your shoveling BTCH, we let our guys fix the snow blowers...so that gives them insight for during the storm trouble shooting

I have had great luck this year, i hope it stays that way


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## chuckraduenz (Jan 4, 2009)

im looking for work in central mn. st. cloud area. lost my job in mid nov. im trying to live of my saving and not spend more than i have to. seems as if jobs round here are like gold. but before i got layed off i got a 2008 polaris. then 2 monthes later i get let go. so now im trying to do snow removal with a shovel and an atv to try to make extra cash when i can. my whole life iv made any where from $2hr when i was a kid picking rock for the neighbors so id get out of the house. and before i got let go i made $11hr. if i made $12 or more id be on top of the world, and glad to say iv got a job and making some what of a wage. so now so far im stuck trying to keep my self alive tell i find a hrly job (who knows how long). its getting to the point now where i have cabin feaver. iv gone from $30 a intown drive, to $20 a in town drive, so far i have 2 place to clear snow. to bad there not next to each other. there 30miles apart. but money is money.


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## 3bladz (Dec 8, 2005)

I met a guy this weekend whos job it was to keep the woodburner goin at a bar. He gets a half a beer for every 2 peices of wood he brings in. He said he drinks a case a day. I asked what he does in the summer and he replied "I drink about a 30 pack" I guess he has more time without havin to fool with the wood an stuff. He is prolly 30 something and he said he roofed for 8 years so I guess he retired early. BTW the health dept wouldnt let a place like this exist if they knew what it was.


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## Turbodiesel (Aug 5, 2008)

Brian Young;696380 said:


> I have 2 condo places each which require sidewalks shoveled. I have already gone through a handful of shovelers (just like last year). No one wants to do them and I cant understand why. Before you all list the cons I'll just say I've done it for years and did it today. I pay per place and they get all of the $$$ billed for each place. A guy even remotley moving can average over 30 BUCKS AN HOUR!!!!! But once again today no answer one the other end. I'm affraid of loosing these accounts because this is one of the first things both places complain about. My God these days you hear of plants closing, 90% of the jobs out there are paying min. wage, the other 10% you need 4 degrees to even apply, where the hell are even one decent guy! Just had to rant! Gotta love LAZY AMERICAussmileyflag:realmad:


Brian , Dittos on the laziness . I had only 3 salting events this year and 1 out of 3 guys show . I told 1 guy to throw my phone number in the trash.
I ended up doing most of it myself. Brought back memories.ussmileyflag:

oh yea , it pays 20.00 hr cash at the end of shift


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## Dlongerman (Nov 6, 2008)

helll i was getting payed $15. hr last year to blow/shovel and do a little bit of s.s. work.... now i get 20 bucks and just run the s.s im 17 and its easy i love to work right now... doing sidewalks is not that big of a deal

sorry that your having trouble getting work... post something at your local high school, or teen youth center or even at some local churches! it will work!


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## riverwalkland (Dec 26, 2007)

you should see if you can sell them on some heated walkways.. haha

I feel the pain, if I had some good employees I'd be making a lot more money right now


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## plowem (Dec 2, 2007)

My whole business is snowblowing and hands maintence. I subcontract a condo, 2 key banks, 2 starbucks, and a high school on top of 27 residential driveways. Its not how much you pay the employees its how comfortable they feel while theyre working. Go buy a couple Gore-tex jackets, pants and gloves and let you're shovelers wear them while they work. I pay $10/hour plus food and coffee throughout the storm and have the same 3 guys every single storm. Only one has workers comp so I drop him off with a walker snowblower and a shovel at the commercials while we do residentials.


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## WINTERGROUP (Dec 10, 2004)

All our accounts monitor payroll ( for workman's comp issues ) we start at $10.00 per hr,( we buy them lunch , dinner, breakfast when they are working, dollar menu !!!!) if they work out good they make more, i tell my people it's what they make it , if they put the work in they get the dollars out.if they do not get more than 10 per , it's because of them. Time plus 1/2 on holidays. My highest walker is around 15.

Typically there is a high turn around on walk way guys, this year i have been lucky, at the start of the winter i hired 21 guys, now we are down to 13, six of which work really hard. I would just as soon keep the 1/2 dozen of the best and give all hrs to them. My walkers average on a 1-4'', 10-14 hrs. 

With the wind chill, if it goes down below zero, we break, in ct there is some law about working out side below zero, i found out the hard way, a worker got pretty sick, a sticken' bad cold, it went on my workman's comp, because he was shoveling, outside below zero.

It's a crappy job, blood money, it's hard to make it look good. There are a few good workers there, try department of labor, the honest ones ask for labor department to place them, that way, if they do not work out or even show up that is a refusal of work, they can not collect, so that is a incentive for them to work harder.


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## loudredram (Jan 29, 2008)

I had a few guy quit saying they wernt getting paid enough we pay 10-12 an hour the guy I had wanted more money and I laughed 18hr plow event the guy worked about 3hrs and sat in the truck for 15 my route has small walkes .......I told the owner screw it I will do it my self


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## bluerage94 (Dec 24, 2004)

I've had some luck getting kids from a couple of local college's....


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Brian Young;697374 said:


> Well, first off we haven't had a "normal" winter to say the least. Its been either heavy wet snow in several inches an hour, rain and freezing rain right after or during a snow fall or just so freakin windy (like 40mph winds all day). They are paid per place because I got sick of paying some one 20 bucks an hour to go as slow as possible but I also dont let it get to more than a few inches after I start calling them out. They have a brand new Ariens 26" 10hp snow blower to use at one of the places and the rest are too small for a snow blower. The route is very tight with only about 5-10 minutes between sites. I dont know, one of the guys called me at 6pm yesterday and said his phone died and the battery was shot and he had to get a new battery. Like you couldn't call me at some point sooner?


haha i hear ya man but honestly, you are always going to have this problem, it comes with the territory. if all guys were as selfmotivated and reliable as you or me, they would be working for themselves and not for you. all you can do is recruit back up guys for the regulars and start a phone list.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Well guys here is my latest in my quest for a few decent guys. I FIRED ALL OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!! Bought another Toro snow blower a size or two up from the Power Lites to the tune of 600 bucks:realmad: (AWESOME MACHINE) so I could do it all myself! Hired one of my summer guys and another guy so we'll see how this goes. Freaked out on one of the dead beats (he was a no show all weekend and called me Sunday for a check) I never screamed at an employee like that before (man it felt good!) We've been hammered with snow this year 29.8 inches since Jan 1st until yesterday, so far we're at 100+ inches (our average is 90 inches) I did some quick math and figured these guys could have made about 1600 bucks since Jan 1st and worked about 60 hours total.


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## Navigator7 (Jan 12, 2009)

Brian Young;714338 said:


> We've been hammered with snow this year 29.8 inches since Jan 1st until yesterday, so far we're at 100+ inches (our average is 90 inches) I did some quick math and figured these guys could have made about 1600 bucks since Jan 1st and worked about 60 hours total.


Brian,
Clue me in. I'm 53 and have never really lived in snow country until the last 6 years. I've never seen or heard of a sidewalk shoveling crew. I live in the country so this is understandable. I can drive a golf ball further than all the sidewalk we have in our town....And its another 25 miles to the nearest sidewalk.

What you are pinging hard on has intrigued me all my life. Suitably motivated employees are key. I've always maintained "employees are your biggest asset and biggest liability". I've wanted to be self employed all my life and finally achieved it about 6 years ago...and it ain't no picnic. I have one employee, an older gent. I don't have enough work for full time and it doesn't bother him but I do pay well.

For the last 30 years, I've watched the garbage pickup guys pick up the trash outside my house. They hustle. Almost without exception...They Hustle! What is the motivation to operate at a dead run?? It wouldn't be a job I'd want to do but I always wonder why garbage men are so motivated???

They are paid by the route. They work fast and smart, they make more money or they make in four hours what they could make elsewhere all day. If they screw off , they work longer in the day. Their job, their goal, their vision is to complete the route in the least amount of time. I think that is a big incentive.

Sounds like you know your biz inside and out and are goal oriented. Better than than any of your employees. You know how hard it is, you know the effect of wind and cold and snow depth....etc.

Here are a few ideas:

o Why couldn't you divide up your crew into two or more teams, devise a route for each team and put a price on the route??

o I know...different snows varies with water content and wind affecting the time but a snowfall multiplier could be calculated in. A 3' blizzard should pay more. A 1" skiff is waaay easier. They will work a little harder sometimes and you will lose a little sometimes but the goal at the end of the day is satisfying your customers better than anybody else.

o One route should be for the very best employees offering the best pay and the best work. Other routes should be tougher, doesn't pay as well.....But advancement is possible to the "gravy route" through prompt arrival, always showing up, making it through the season.

o Then...after the contract work is done during the day ... the A-team gets first pick of the pick up work.

If somebody hands me a shovel and says work...Ok
But if somebody hands me a shovel and says do "Route A", it pays xxx amount.....I've got it. Let's go!

In my Horatio Alger world, the best of the best will make the most dough because they earned it! You benefit with a kick ass crew. Above all, your customers benefit with the service done as expected...or better. You aren't paying your guys, your customer's do. If your employees aren't performing they are screwing your customer.

If I knew I was on the "C" route, I'd damn sure want to be on the "A" route. If my goal day after day was to knock off the "A" crew...that ain't a bad mental goal to cary through the route.

Meanwhile the "A" crew wants to stay at the top of the heap and know they perform or it's "B, C or D" route due to performance only.

I'm sure you get my drift. Pun intended ;-)


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## Petr51488 (Jan 31, 2005)

Don't buy those 10hp blowers.. Their big, bulky and waste time. I have my two brothers go out and do my accounts with 2 snowblowers to do the driveways and sidewalks and shovels to do the steps. It is by far the most efficient setup ever thought of. lol I have the honda 5hp blowers that work great in any snowfall. They zip through up 8 inches with no power problems wat so ever. Anything more then 8, which we rarely get, then it might take alittle longer. Their able to do roughly 30 decent size houses in about 5 hours. They get paid around 40 an hour...using my truck/blowers/gas etc. It might be a tad high, but i make 3x that without lifting a finger. 

On a side note... i would never work 140 (or w/e the number you said) for an 8 hour day of shoveling.... Shoveling is backbreaking work. Maybe at 140 per hour i would do it, but honestly, dont feel bad that people are walking away for that price. Try the snowblower route. I paid around 700 for my hondas... they are truly great machines.

Using the bigger blowers are really a waste of time unless you have 1+ foot of snow. Their slow and dont scrape down to the ground. The hondas that i have are very powerful and scrape down to the ground and do a nice quick job. You should check them out. Their very reliable and dont cost too much.


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## Dustball (Dec 5, 2008)

Petr51488;714632 said:


> Don't buy those 10hp blowers.. Their big, bulky and waste time. I have my two brothers go out and do my accounts with 2 snowblowers to do the driveways and sidewalks and shovels to do the steps. It is by far the most efficient setup ever thought of. lol I have the honda 5hp blowers that work great in any snowfall. They zip through up 8 inches with no power problems wat so ever. Anything more then 8, which we rarely get, then it might take alittle longer. Their able to do roughly 30 decent size houses in about 5 hours. They get paid around 40 an hour...using my truck/blowers/gas etc. It might be a tad high, but i make 3x that without lifting a finger.
> 
> On a side note... i would never work 140 (or w/e the number you said) for an 8 hour day of shoveling.... Shoveling is backbreaking work. Maybe at 140 per hour i would do it, but honestly, dont feel bad that people are walking away for that price. Try the snowblower route. I paid around 700 for my hondas... they are truly great machines.
> 
> Using the bigger blowers are really a waste of time unless you have 1+ foot of snow. Their slow and dont scrape down to the ground. The hondas that i have are very powerful and scrape down to the ground and do a nice quick job. You should check them out. Their very reliable and dont cost too much.


I run my route with a couple of single stage blowers and a big 13/33" blower. I'm at the point now at some of my stops where the banks are too high for the single stage blowers to clear when up close to the edges of the driveways. The chutes are too low on the single stages whereas my 33" blower chute's tip is a good 3 feet off the ground. I do the majority of the driveways and sidewalks with the smaller blowers and do the bank work with the big blower to get the snow up and away.

My route consists of houses with driveways and/or sidewalks that can't be handled by plows due to not having a place to put the snow.


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## Petr51488 (Jan 31, 2005)

Dustball;714780 said:


> I run my route with a couple of single stage blowers and a big 13/33" blower. I'm at the point now at some of my stops where the banks are too high for the single stage blowers to clear when up close to the edges of the driveways. The chutes are too low on the single stages whereas my 33" blower chute's tip is a good 3 feet off the ground. I do the majority of the driveways and sidewalks with the smaller blowers and do the bank work with the big blower to get the snow up and away.
> 
> My route consists of houses with driveways and/or sidewalks that can't be handled by plows due to not having a place to put the snow.


Yea, well every area will need different types of snowblowers. 95% of our storms are right up the alley for the hondas. My point is that the small single stage blowers are by far better then shovelers and the larger blowers (in most cases).


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## lawnboy11 (Aug 22, 2000)

Hey Jersey!

Same boat here- 30 resis- I can do all in about 7 hrs (1-4") myself. I have the same honda and love it...also toro snow commanders-awesome too - and a 2 stage toro I haven't used since I got the single stages. If it snows big I'll bust out the 2 stage for driveway ends where the plows pile it up.

Sometimes my bro comes and helps too. I paid him 65$ an hour last storm for 4 hours but he travels a bit to get here so I cover those costs too and feed him. Well worth it for me. he knows the deal so no BS for me.

If I were to hire someone other than him to shovel I would want to pay them at least 30$ per hour- What's $240 for 8 hours? Not much compared to the amount that would generate (at least $1200). Kepp them happy.

What do people expect paying less than 20$ hour for shoveling? You get what you pay for.


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## Russell0174 (Dec 28, 2008)

I have been running a johndeere 425 x475 or x720 lawn tractor with a snow blower or broom or blade for many years. My latest x720 has a cab with heat. These are unbelievable at moving snow. 3 foot ridges from the snow plow cant stop em yesterday we had 4 inches, and the JD 60 inch broom took it all off, even when you doubled it over.$20,000.00 for a fully outfitted rig ,If you just did snow with em I know they would last 10 years. 2000 hrs easy,I use mine for mowing also and put on 600 hrs a year. trade the tractor every 3 years, the snowblower has lasted 3 tractors, I do all the side walk work myself and let the hired help run the trucks and skids. Most of my help is retired or laid off landscape or construction guys. found out along time ago, do the hand work yourself, If you don't ,you will have to go back anyways and do it again.This morning we had <1 inch of snow not enough to drives or lots. but the sidwalks needed to be done. Made $400 in less than 2 hours. Equipment makes the difference by the way it was -12 this morning with -30 wind chill.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Lots of people on Unemployment Insurance and Welfare that could earn their keep...only if I was PM. LOL


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## esshakim (Jul 3, 2005)

*Workers*

I have found that americans are lazy, nobody wants to work anymore they all want to be bailed out or have check handed to them for doing nothing. I have guys that are great workers and I have guys that I have to hit with a whip to even get them to do something, its like they are lost when they are working. Another problem is they want to make double what they are making to even work at an average pace, and still the work doesnt get done. That's why I pay my guys and if they don't have a pep in there step I will leave them right at the job site and find somebody else. It takes time to find a good crew, and those that don't want to work are very expendable, because believe me you will find the right guys who will help to maximize your profits and don't cost you an arm and a leg.


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## LHK2 (Jan 22, 2007)

Same here. We subbed out a condo to a guy so we didn't have to deal with the walks. We were paying guys 25 an hour 4 hr min an still had a hard time finding guys. My thoughts are, everybody thinks your a millionare and can afford to pay more for nothing done. This country is going to be in a world of hurt in a few months. I didn't live during the the 30 and 40's but my grandfather always told me how hard it was, just to eat for the day. Good luck to these f*c*s that don't want to work!!


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## plowem (Dec 2, 2007)

lawnboy11;715320 said:


> Hey Jersey!
> 
> Same boat here- 30 resis- I can do all in about 7 hrs (1-4") myself. I have the same honda and love it...also toro snow commanders-awesome too - and a 2 stage toro I haven't used since I got the single stages. If it snows big I'll bust out the 2 stage for driveway ends where the plows pile it up.
> 
> ...


So in 4 hours you did 30 drives with 2 people and made over $1200 off your help?? Thats an average of $40/driveway not including what you made for yourself and doing almost 8 driveways/hour or 1 per 7.5 minutes. I've been doing this for 4 years and have 27 drives and some commercials and find those achievements unattainable. I have 9 driveways in a condo complex and we plow the road so there are no snowbanks and a 3 person crew with walker snowblowers gets it done in about 7 minutes per driveway once we drop the trailer on an average storm and I would bet my walker I could do laps around your single stages. Wait till equipment breaks and you start paying taxes, you'll be singing a different tune then $30/hour!


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## HULK2184 (Dec 29, 2008)

I used to shovel for about 6 years for 40$ an hr b/c i was the only guy that would show up, but tell you what even for 40$hr i hated it. Good money but hated it


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

We used to use HS kids, then oops, somebody was mad that their "tommy" got sent home for the night for running his mouth to a client, not fired mind you though he should have been and the labor hawks from the state were there, even though no power equipment was used by those under 18 and school was closed the following day we were letting them work too late. It hurt pretty bad it was about half of the shoveling force we lost, state said here's your fine and if we cat6ch you doing it after this 2500 dollar slap we'll really open your eyes with the next one!! This was at a previous employer, where thery had the right idea, hire guys with 4x4 quads and plows, if they have a pu and could move them we were paying 45hr for the machine/operator/truck to move it. Best money ever spent for walks. We had 2 inhouse, spreaders on the back.....the only wat to do walks efficiently as far as I am concerned. The company I am currently with I'm forced to use our labor force which is normally engaged in other activities, and though not as fast as quads these guys jump for 15 an hour, all hispanic guys, good people and they will go all day without a word.........pay them within a couple days and buy them coffee and cakes for breaks and they call everyday looking to shovel. We have a huge labor force for our core business, maybe I should sub shovelers out to local guys?????? Hey I just had a brain storm!!!


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

we have companies here like irrigation companies that hire out to do nothing but walks because they don't want to deal with cost of plow trucks...don't know if you were kidding but if your able to get the manpower i think it would be a great business opportunity...( minimal cost involved) .especially after reading through this whole thread !!
steve


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## lawnboy11 (Aug 22, 2000)

plowem;717769 said:


> So in 4 hours you did 30 drives with 2 people and made over $1200 off your help?? Thats an average of $40/driveway not including what you made for yourself and doing almost 8 driveways/hour or 1 per 7.5 minutes. I've been doing this for 4 years and have 27 drives and some commercials and find those achievements unattainable. I have 9 driveways in a condo complex and we plow the road so there are no snowbanks and a 3 person crew with walker snowblowers gets it done in about 7 minutes per driveway once we drop the trailer on an average storm and I would bet my walker I could do laps around your single stages. Wait till equipment breaks and you start paying taxes, you'll be singing a different tune then $30/hour!


This is for 1-4" storms. Don't even need a blower-have 3' wide shovels. I get $45 per house incl drive, walks, steps, etc. Jealous? I pay taxes, have 5 snowblowers and 2 trucks. Wait till you break down. Maine is for poor people.


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## plowem (Dec 2, 2007)

lawnboy11;717918 said:


> This is for 1-4" storms. Don't even need a blower-have 3' wide shovels. I get $45 per house incl drive, walks, steps, etc. Jealous? I pay taxes, have 5 snowblowers and 2 trucks. Wait till you break down. Maine is for poor people.


30x45=1350....and your help generates $1200? Maine can't be that poor because I have 3starbucks on the list and aint no por peeple buying zat.


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## Gmgbo (Jan 18, 2005)

There are laid off people in the condos I do telling me they will shovel for $10 per hr......havent takin them up on the offer yet.


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

Brian Young;696380 said:


> I have 2 condo places each which require sidewalks shoveled. I have already gone through a handful of shovelers (just like last year). No one wants to do them and I cant understand why. Before you all list the cons I'll just say I've done it for years and did it today. I pay per place and they get all of the $$$ billed for each place. A guy even remotley moving can average over 30 BUCKS AN HOUR!!!!! But once again today no answer one the other end. I'm affraid of loosing these accounts because this is one of the first things both places complain about. My God these days you hear of plants closing, 90% of the jobs out there are paying min. wage, the other 10% you need 4 degrees to even apply, where the hell are even one decent guy! Just had to rant! Gotta love LAZY AMERICAussmileyflag:realmad:


Hey I think its becuase of our dear old computer video games and the like. Its just to easy to sit on your butt anything difficult goes on in your game just delete it. So in the real world if its is causing to to sweat wimp out and say ya cant do it. ussmileyflagtymusic:


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

I had to go through about 7 guys to find 1 decent one, the tough part of our business is it on call, so inteviewing & hiring, then it may be 3 weeks before they need to show up. Referals is best of the 3 new shovelers I hired this season the 2 that were referals I've had minimal problems with showing or work performed. I've hd same problems with drivers though, I don't get it. I finally got fully staffed with a great group of guys around January 1. Before that I was getting grayer hair by the day, it didnt help we had a record month in December (46 inches). It does come together, but it takes time finding people that want to work, hopefully most will stay on for next season also, most of my guys come back year to year, unless full time job changes.


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## wannabeplowing (Feb 9, 2008)

Man am I happy I don't fall into the lazy category. Hearing everybody's stories of their terrible workers makes me want to work that much more!! I am only 20 and I am a full time college student but I work for a local property maintence company and you can bet your [email protected]@ I don't miss work unless absolutely neccessary (like studying for finals!) there have been many times I have worked all night just to go straight from work to class. Not trying to talk myself up or anything just trying to keep all you company owners positive that there is good help out there but like has been said already it can be very hard to find!!


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

wannabeplowing;730202 said:


> Man am I happy I don't fall into the lazy category. Hearing everybody's stories of their terrible workers makes me want to work that much more!! I am only 20 and I am a full time college student but I work for a local property maintence company and you can bet your [email protected]@ I don't miss work unless absolutely neccessary (like studying for finals!) there have been many times I have worked all night just to go straight from work to class. Not trying to talk myself up or anything just trying to keep all you company owners positive that there is good help out there but like has been said already it can be very hard to find!!


Yes we have always had success with people that were motivated to get somewhere. If the dont have a drivers licence no matter what age or didnt complete grade school you have only a 10% chance of seeing em around for longer than 3 weeks tops


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Gmgbo;728692 said:


> There are laid off people in the condos I do telling me they will shovel for $10 per hr......havent takin them up on the offer yet.


They all talk the talk until they have to work 8 hours in 25 degree weather. We have been lucky this year with some good guys. Nothing better than a sidewalk crew leader calling hours before the storm wanting to know when they should be in


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## David 06 Ranger (Nov 23, 2008)

I have the same problem man. For $150.00 a day just to shovel, when most of the time they're not workin anyway is great. They have no major responsibilities just push a bit of snow around it's pathetic. They arn't men they should be working in a beauty salon painting fingernails for a living!


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## David 06 Ranger (Nov 23, 2008)

Hell my driveway fits 3 trucks and a small car and has about a 40' run to the road. I shovel it just for the workout.


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## 7.3 Plower (Jan 19, 2009)

Way to talk down on your fellow countrymen, guys. :salute:

I'm 16 and born&raised in America. I had a job from August-November working at a store in an orchard. I got there 15 minutes early to stock shelves and usually stayed an extra 10 or so to clean up. I got 10$/hr for my time. They liked me so now the owner of the orchard has me painting the inside of a few rental houses on the property and come spring and early summer before harvest I'll be out mowing between the rows. 

Real lazy huh...

On the other hand they had an 18 y/o kid doing the same thing I was doing. He'd be there Saturdays and I'd be there Sundays. That lasted about a month. We bagged our own peanuts. Just scoop em out of the big box and put 1.01 pounds in each bag. I walked in one morning and there were bags thrown against the wall instead of stacked and they looked wrong. So I put one on the scale and he was like 4/10 of a pound over weight. I ended up pulling 3 extra bags from what he did after I got them all to their rightful 1.01 pounds.

I don't believe your work ethic comes from your nationality. It comes from your upbringing. If you have everything handed to you then you will expect that all your life.

I've paid for everything I have aside from Christmas and Birthday presents.

I know a lot of people who have gotten cars for their 16th birthdays or they've had a relative pay for the vast majority of it. The kid then has absolutely no respect for the vehicle. They don't care if they wreck it. They didn't have to pay for it.

To the OP: Sorry for hijacking your thread.


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## Winter Land Man (Aug 9, 2005)

I usually hire guys who have no driver's licenses to ride as passenger in the trucks and they get out and shovel while the driver plows. I'm insured for them as well, so if they fall down or get hurt, they are covered. It gets jobs done faster if the driver doesn't have to get out and do the shoveling after he plows the lot, or before. The guys are happy as hell.


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

good attitude 7.3 plower, being in a position to help my kid, and knowing what i had to go thru to get my first car, i helped my daughter to get a eclipse gt, she had strict rules and had to pay a portion back.
long story short she now wishes she would of followed them as her new eclipse cost her 370 a month.
on the down side her sisters are now eyeing the car lol. she now knows i say what i mean. but your right i see kids handed cars all the time like its theyre right to have one.


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## frue (Dec 17, 2007)

I have a little niche. Thats all i do. I have a snow blower and go to the other guys who have sidewalks and small driveways. the price is a dollar a minute. 60 an hour. this is the price. The reason that you cannot keep them is because its not steady enough for them.


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## ProEnterprises (Dec 16, 2003)

7.3 Plower;730317 said:


> Way to talk down on your fellow countrymen, guys. :salute:
> 
> I'm 16 and born&raised in America. I had a job from August-November working at a store in an orchard. I got there 15 minutes early to stock shelves and usually stayed an extra 10 or so to clean up. I got 10$/hr for my time. They liked me so now the owner of the orchard has me painting the inside of a few rental houses on the property and come spring and early summer before harvest I'll be out mowing between the rows.
> 
> ...


Way to go pal!!! I was just like you, and it pays off big time! Don't let your friends hassle you about it either!


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## 7.3 Plower (Jan 19, 2009)

Thanks, guys!

I usually get harassed because before the orchard I worked on a dairy farm. Usually I get told to "Go milk a cow" or something idiotic like that.

Then when they have no money on hand to get something and ask me if they can borrow something....

"Get a job. Maybe you could go milk a cow."


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