# help with bid on small commercial lot please



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

so this would potentially be my very first commercial lot. its about a 7000sqft lot...with maybe around 5000 sqft to maintain.
he prefers the use of a snowblower which is all I have anyways old 22" ariens that still throws snow like crazy. I know its a small blower but he doesn't open until 9am and I would have it cleared way before then anyways. not sure what you guys do for snow events during the day...I guess just get there asap. hes about 5 mins away from my house so ill be able to keep a close eye on the lot. again, I'm new to all this so go easy on me! lol.

he also wants salt on the lot and the steps and wheelchair ramp. id be using a walkbehind spreader so also not sure on how many bags of salt would be needed per app. I'm guessing 2-4 50lb bags per app. I told him salt is extra so I will need help or advice on how to price for that as well please.

he also wants the lawn re-sodded and maintained for next year but that's something I know how to bid, but I'm wondering how I can make him such a great deal on everything that he just cant resist. any advice on that route is also appreciated.

I'm thinking around $500-$600 per month + salt.

what are your thoughts on all this? thanks guys, I appreciate any help!


----------



## Hamster360 (Jul 10, 2015)

#1, are you insured for commercial lots? 
#2, why does the owner prefer a snowblower?

My advice to you on this, is that it's going to be at least 6 times worse than you think. If all we get are 2-4" powdery snows from 1am-5am and then you can go in there for a couple hours before 9am, you'll be fine. When we get the 12" snows, or the wet sloppy snows, you'll hate your life. If we get a lot of day time snows, traffic will pack the snow down and make it tough to blow as well. 

Don't make him a great deal. Make him pay a fair price, and give him fair service.

If I had to do this job, I would price it by the hour. That way you are covered if its a bad winter.


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

yes I am covered for residential & commercial with the use of hand shovels and snowblowers only for 2mil liability. yes your right, I probably would hate my life if we get a bad winter which they are calling for in my area this year. cold and snowy. he doesn't like the banging of the buckets or plows on the asphalt. said he fired the last company that would constantly drop the front end loader bucket on the ground instead of setting it down smoothly, as a result the operator cracked parts of the laneway.


----------



## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Not trying to be a jerk but I just wouldn't do it. A walk behind snowblower for a commercial parking lot seems almost impossible to me even though it's that small especially since there will be vehicle traffic on it. If you get a real storm you would have to be out there in the elements non stop until it's over because it's your responsibility to keep it cleared no matter what. I think you may get yourself in trouble. 

As for salt a normal application would be between 1000 -1300 square feet covered per 50 lb bag. So just measure the walks and ramps to get square footage. Figure 15 min per bag to charge for time with a minimum. I charge double to triple what I actually pay for salt. So for easy math say you buy the bag of salt for $10 charge at least $20 for it then I would add hourly on to it. My minimum is 30 min and I charge $45 per man hour for shovel crew members. Yours will probably be different. So if you were to apply a bag at a time my charge would be $42.50 per application of salt. Just my two cents. Sounds like a bad idea though and it sounds like the business owner is someone I would refuse to provide service to anyway. Good luck whatever you decide to do!


----------



## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Where are you in Ontario ?


----------



## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

,


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

Thanks ktfbgb for your input! I don't mind the the cold (I'm a sled head) and besides I gotta start somewhere. I may loose my shirt on it, but it's definitely going to be a learning curve! I may upgrade to a commercial ariens snow thrower later on in the season. We'll see though. The little ariens I have right now works awesome and doesn't owe me a red cent lol! I know there will be storms to deal with and I'll be stuck out there wishing I had something bigger & better to move the snow with, but I'm sure we'll always wish that. 

Thanks again, and I appreciate your help!


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

Shawzer I'm located in fergus about 2hrs south of you. Actually I should probably update that...


----------



## redclifford (Aug 10, 2015)

I had a friend that tried to do commercial sites with a snow blower and it was terrible, he ended up calling me to help him out during day storms n the wet heavy snow/slush. He lasted two years and now doesn't do snow anymore. If it was me I wouldn't take the site, I think you could make more money doing sidewalks and driveways with less head aches. Good luck, I hope it works out for you


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Sometimes ya just gotta say no. My price would be so high, he wouldn't go for it. If ya do this, get another blower. And go with both and a helper.


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

I do plan on taking on residential drives & sidewalks this year. Which will be the main focus, but this is a small lot that can be done. If need be, I'll end up buying a good commercial blower. Or if I get enough work lined up I'll find a used plow and up my premiums


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

Randall, my price will be higher than most and he probably will say no thanks. I know somebody will come in at the right price and get the job. Worth a shot though...


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

NO NO NO NO! Just no. Walk away. I am you, just slightly bigger. I have a few blowers, a lot of shovels, and a crew or more of guys doing just what you want. We do sidewalks for companies. I subcontract for a local company and knock all the sidewalks out.

Stay with me here. When you're doing walks, the snow is fresh. Maybe has a few foot prints. It is no problem to either use a shovel or snowblower. Even the wet heavy stuff is no problem if you put rubber pieces on your impeller (check out impeller mods on youtube). Now think about what the slushy half melted crap looks like in the street. It will wear your motor out FAST. Not only will it kill your blower, but also think about the liability of throwing all those rocks and crap that's in the lot with cars around during the day. I could go on and on about how bad of an idea this is. There's plenty of money to be made doing residentials and sidewalks (I quit doing residential because I made more with walks) to not worry about this one lot. Save the commercial accounts for when/if you get a blade and just don't work for idiots who "don't like snow plows" unless it's for residential, then charge a premium.

If you do bid this job, make sure you REALLY over price it. I don't see many going for it, so he may just be stuck with you. If that's the case, make sure you are making serious money doing it.


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

Very good JMH! A lot of good points there and it's much appreciated. Stuff I didn't really think of...

I guess I will overprice it and if I get it, I get it...if not no worries. 

Another option would be to sub it out to my buddy with a plow. And I could just take care of the shovelling of the wheelchair ramp and steps salting etc. might be the way to go...


----------



## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

HadiCoop said:


> Very good JMH! A lot of good points there and it's much appreciated. Stuff I didn't really think of...
> 
> I guess I will overprice it and if I get it, I get it...if not no worries.
> 
> Another option would be to sub it out to my buddy with a plow. And I could just take care of the shovelling of the wheelchair ramp and steps salting etc. might be the way to go...


Yes do that!


----------



## redclifford (Aug 10, 2015)

ktfbgb said:


> Yes do that!


X2


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

thanks guys! I appreciate all the help & info. I will let yas know the outcome..


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I thought you said he didn't want a plow? And if you sub it out, it's still your responsibility, and liability.


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

He prefers a blower, but will accept the use of a plow. My buddy is very reliable and I would have no worries subbing it out to him.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

ktfbgb said:


> Yes do that!


X3, Be careful with that owner, Sounds really uneducated on moving snow. Fired a guy because slamming of the bucket cracked his blacktop.  If there was cracking it was probably the weight of the loader, Not the bucket. Sounds like a real PITA. Highball him on the blowing and then give him a reasonable price on the truck. See what he wants to do.Thumbs Up


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

How bout looking into a rubber cutting edge. Don't scrap as good as steel, but do OK. Get your own truck and plow, and make the money yourself.


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

Can't justify the insurance premium right away. Need more work first


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Or just adjust the quill so the plow doesn't drop as fast Or hit the ground hard.....and keep the steel edge.


Walk behind snow blowers are for sidewalks,jmo


I couldn't spend the time snow blowing, time is money or price it high enough and still the get work.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SnoFarmer said:


> Or just adjust the quill so the plow doesn't drop as fast.....and keep the steel edge.
> 
> Walk behind snow blowers are for sidewalks,jmo
> 
> I couldn't spend the time snow blowing, time is money or price it high enough and still the get work.


The OP can't spend the time either to be competitive. The owner is worried about his parking area looking if he can find someone to blow it for the same price as a truck. Typical behavior for a uneducated owner/manager. Fired a guy with a loader and wants to do it with blowers.  :hammerhead:


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

FredG said:


> The OP can't spend the time either to be competitive. The owner is worried about his parking area looking if he can find someone to blow it for the same price as a truck. Typical behavior for a uneducated owner/manager. Fired a guy with a loader and wants to do it with blowers.  :hammerhead:


Sounds like the owner is a :terribletowel:.

And he's looking for a scab *newcanadaflag* to do the work.


----------



## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

HadiCoop . Even if you only get half the snow we get here , no way would I do a commercial lot with a 22 inch blower .


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Do you already have a truck?


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

Yes. 2008 silverado ext cab 4x4.


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Your insurance is not going to be much different if it'd commercial. Look for s decent used plow. Then you open yourself up to more capabilities. You can still use the blower.


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

Huge difference! Right now my policy is for residential & commercial use with the use of a blower & shovels for $1100 for the year. That includes lawn & garden maintenance.

Now as soon as I put a plow on my truck, my premium goes up about $2k-$3k on top of the $1100.

Just the way it is up here..


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I'm in new Jersey. That's nothing.


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

I can't afford that risk right now, next year Forsure.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

To me your GL plan you have now seems high.


----------



## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

HadiCoop said:


> I can't afford that risk right now, next year Forsure.


Honestly the larger risk is getting under contract for a service that you are not able to provide. Like everyone on here has said handling a commercial lot no matter if it's small like this one is or not you as the contractor are responsible for keeping it clear. If you get a blizzard and can't keep up with the lot no one is going to care that you only had a blower. You will get your butt sued off for negligence. If someone slips and falls or there is a car wreck in the lot they are coming after you. One of things they look for in a case like that is if you are providing service consistent with the industry standard. A 22 inch blower for a commercial lot is in no way an industry standard for a commercial lot. They will call in professionals as subject matter experts and have them testify to that effect. Seriously everyone here is giving you advice against it, not because we are mean, because we are looking out for your wellbeing and the reputation of the industry as a whole. We in no way want to discourage you from being a snow professional, we just want to see you be successful and do it the right way. If you can't afford the insurance to do it right then stay away from it this year and pull the trigger next year when you can afford it. If you get sued you will loose everything over a stupid extra $2000 insurance premium. ITS NOT WORTH THE RISK!


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

It's competitive. Believe me, I shopped around. For my area that's about what you'll pay. Basically it was $700 for the lawn & garden side of things and around $400 for the snow.


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> Honestly the larger risk is getting under contract for a service that you are not able to provide. Like everyone on here has said handling a commercial lot no matter if it's small like this one is or not you as the contractor are responsible for keeping it clear. If you get a blizzard and can't keep up with the lot no one is going to care that you only had a blower. You will get your butt sued off for negligence. If someone slips and falls or there is a car wreck in the lot they are coming after you. One of things they look for in a case like that is if you are providing service consistent with the industry standard. A 22 inch blower for a commercial lot is in no way an industry standard for a commercial lot. They will call in professionals as subject matter experts and have them testify to that effect. Seriously everyone here is giving you advice against it, not because we are mean, because we are looking out for your wellbeing and the reputation of the industry as a whole. We in no way want to discourage you from being a snow professional, we just want to see you be successful and do it the right way. If you can't afford the insurance to do it right then stay away from it this year and pull the trigger next year when you can afford it. If you get sued you will loose everything over a stupid extra $2000 insurance premium. ITS NOT WORTH THE RISK!


Point taken and very well said. Like I said this is all new to me and is a huge learning curve. I appreciate you looking out for me. However, I did put in a pretty high quote (what I think is high anyway) for the property. The insurance agent did say if I wanted to get into plowing just to call and change the policy anytime, so maybe I could find a cheap plow and pay for part of the extra premium with this contract. I'm handing out around 1000 flyers tomorrow so hopefully I can pick up some more clients. I've met with a couple potential clients already about their residential properties for this upcoming winter. They're all price shopping right now.


----------



## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

I'm pretty confident that you guys will make a professional out of me! I'm all ears..


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

HadiCoop said:


> It's competitive. Believe me, I shopped around. For my area that's about what you'll pay. Basically it was $700 for the lawn & garden side of things and around $400 for the snow.


Yeah, after I reread that I understood what you meant. I was reading real quick while my wife was going into Walgreens and I didn't read it correctly. I thought you meant it was that just for snow without a plow. I didn't see your sentence after that.


----------



## envisionslandsc (Nov 22, 2010)

ON JOBS LIKE THAT I WOULD DEFINATELY CHARGE A NMINIMUM OF 45 PER HOUR.


----------

