# Is it illegal to advertise now?!?!



## plowman_25 (Nov 16, 2005)

ok, so i just got a phone call from the post office about the flyers that i put out last week. i went around different neiborhoods in my area and put flyer on the flags on mailboxes and in newspaper boxes, and before someone says it, yes i know its illegal to put them in the boxes...so i never opened a box or put a flyer in it.

any ways i got the phone call from the post office giving me crap about putting them in boxes. after telling the guy i never put one in a box, he says, well the carrier said she saw them on the flags, but someone gave it to her. well whats the proble then? well it turns out that they strongly urge me not to do that anymore, becuase i could get fined for all the deliveries on the route which is like 500.

sorry to rant, but i feel i did nothing wrong and am pissed that post office is trying to "protect" me. seems like they just want money.

anyone else have any prolems like this?


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## bh115577 (Oct 25, 2009)

I think I heard something like this. Since the postal service started having money troubles they have been cracking down on
everything that could cost them money. They are likely just trying to get you to do a bulk mailing with them so they can make some money. I forget how the article read but I don't recall if what you are doing has been changed to illegal or not. If I can find it I will post it for you. I know it was in the Syracuse Post Standard a few months back.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

You can not even touch a mail box unless it is yours or you are the courier by federal law. No you are not allowed to tape, stick in the flag, rubberband, or staple your fliers to a mailbox.


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## Comet (May 23, 2001)

I agree with Terrapro, no one is allowed and it has always been that way, 
I dont think it has anything to do with the bulk issue, 
I was confronted back in 99 from the Postal Office and also some of the home owners calling me first, that was the day I stopped leaving flyers and also estimates in mailboxes, wow!!! been long time now


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## plowinginma (Oct 22, 2005)

Unfortunately I have first hand knowledge of this....

I went and flyer'd a whole bunch of houses in my town back in 1985.. I was trying to build a snowplowing route and a landscape business .. I put over 1000 flyer's in mail boxes... and little did I know that I put one in the postmaster generals mail box.. 
I got about 400 or so back.. and a bill from the USPS... I went down with my mom and he explained that the mail box is Federal property... Inside and out.. he suggested that if I wanted to I could mail the flyer's.. or put them on peoples doors... but not the mailbox..

I can't remember the exact # but I paid somewhere around $500 for postage that I had "stolen".. If I did not pay the bill it had a fedral criminal penalty.

Oh ya.. Mail box baseball...=.. Fedral Offense ...Destruction of Fedral Property..


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## Lil STX Ford (Nov 27, 2008)

Hmmmm Unless the Postal Service in your area, supplies or paid for the box.. that the customer is leasing renting or borrowing the mailbox... the argument would fall between Customer and yourself.. then if customer has a NO flier marker sticker or label of any sort.. you don't touch...

So if this situation was actually some dumb founded law in my Country and Province.. I think Politicians panhandling there BS via fliers will get a letter from my lawyer, for trespassing an aggravating BS, and also littering on private property in my mailbox


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

Canada may be different.

In the US. You cannot put anything in or on the mailbox or post.

Doesnt matter if its on the flag, on the post, a sticker, anything, it cant go there.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

plowinginma;860461 said:


> Unfortunately I have first hand knowledge of this....
> 
> I went and flyer'd a whole bunch of houses in my town back in 1985.. I was trying to build a snowplowing route and a landscape business .. I put over 1000 flyer's in mail boxes... and little did I know that I put one in the postmaster generals mail box..
> I got about 400 or so back.. and a bill from the USPS... I went down with my mom and he explained that the mail box is Federal property... Inside and out.. he suggested that if I wanted to I could mail the flyer's.. or put them on peoples doors... but not the mailbox..
> ...


There ya go, it _IS_ about the money.


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## plowinginma (Oct 22, 2005)

LOL it always is about the money!!!! Although in this case ... It could be power.. I don't think the post master got a bonus for busting me... Then again we have all heard about "GOING POSTAL"!!!


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Actually the post office owns the inside of the mailbox not the outside of it. So you can put flier on the flag area as long as it does not interfere with the deliver or the number on the box.


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## BMWSTUD25 (Aug 21, 2008)

Don't be cheap, just mail them to their houses! It would have cost you what, less than $250 and you could have sent them on a postcard and made them look way more professional than just hanging some random flyer's on peoples mailbox's


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Taken in part from:

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/gg97085.pdf

In 1934, Congress enacted a law known as the "mailbox restriction" that
prohibits anyone from placing mailable matter without postage into any
mailbox. This law, 18 U.S.C. 1725, gives the Postal Service a virtual
monopoly over mailboxes and currently reads as follows:
"Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits any mailable matter such as statements of
accounts, circulars, sale bills, or other like matter, on which no postage has been paid, in
any letter box established, approved, or accepted by the Postal Service for the receipt or
delivery of mail matter on any mail route with intent to avoid payment of lawful postage
thereon, shall for each such offense be fined under this title."
Under current law, a violation of the mailbox restriction law is an
infraction that can be punished by a fine but not by imprisonment. The
maximum fine for each offense is $5,000 for individuals and $10,000 for
organizations.6
In addition to the mailbox restriction law, Postal Service regulations
provide that "every letterbox or other receptacle intended or used for the
receipt or delivery of mail" may be used only for matter bearing postage
and that any mailable matter found in mailboxes without postage is
subject to payment of the same postage as if it had been carried by mail.7
Postal Service regulations are broader than the mailbox restriction law.
The regulations restrict items placed upon, supported by, attached to,
hung from, or inserted into a mailbox.8 However, the regulations do not
apply to door slots, among other things.9


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## Michigansnowkin (Sep 28, 2009)

Every city is different, you are technicly not allowed to touch another box. Some will let you get away with the newspaper box or flag. Me personaly If we hand flyers out we only us the newspaper boxes, its all about money, they want you to use bulk mail. And there will always be the nosey old lady calling the post office. If we get a call just dont hit thta area again. Go to another sub.


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## fireboy6413 (Sep 28, 2008)

You can not put them in the mail box, but you can put them in the news paper box, if they have one anymore, I got lucky a few people in my fire house work for the post office and took care of me, but they did their part by stopping me before I did handed them out.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

We ran into the same problem at are fire dept. We had some guys put the fundraiser letters for a benifit dinner into mail boxs. We recived a letter and a visit from a postal inspector(FEDERAL mail police). We (vol fire dept running a fund raiser to benifit a member with cancer) recived a fine of $8000 plus had to pay postage for EVERY letter we had printed 1500 fliers. We had to get are local congressman involved to help fix the problem. After much help from ALL are congressman they dropped all the fines and postage fee's. It took 7 months to make it happen so long and short don't touch a mail box for any reason.
As for mail box baseball over 6 mailboxs damaged will be handled in fed court if you are over 18. Thats the true a family member of mine decied to play baseball one tonight with his fiends They paided big $$$$ to fix that 15 minutes of fun(fines and mailbox replacement)


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## plowman_25 (Nov 16, 2005)

thanks for the input guys...i guess im not going to bother with anymore fliers....not worth the trouble


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

To answer the OPs question - No, it is not illegal to advertise. It is, however, very illegal to use mailboxes for for flyers.


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

grandview;860543 said:


> Actually the post office owns the inside of the mailbox not the outside of it. So you can put flier on the flag area as long as it does not interfere with the deliver or the number on the box.


What you posted is 100% wrong.


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## Exact Services (Oct 11, 2008)

All my flyers are put on the doorsteps, under the corner of the door mat etc. As of yet I have never had any responses from any put in a newspaper box. Take the extra effort and put them where they will be read.


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## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

procut1;861897 said:


> What you posted is 100% wrong.


Folk Lore. Inside box requires postage. Outside requires nothing and is not restricted by federal law which trumps state and local. Your state or local may have laws but, they would get tossed - that's just how it all works. I've run in to it, stood my ground and they came clean saying they were pressured to insist these taggings stoped. In the ned a busy body complained but, had nothing more they could do - even with the police. Here's another ditty - if the box is blocked ( flowers, vines, broken, taped, etc. ) the only thing that will happen is the house owner will be given a notice to fix before delivery begins again.

As a matter of business I find better residential response from; local newpaper or door flyers than anything on a mail box.


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## theguynextdoor (Sep 18, 2007)

grandview;860543 said:


> Actually the post office owns the inside of the mailbox not the outside of it. So you can put flier on the flag area as long as it does not interfere with the deliver or the number on the box.


I got a call from the post office about my flyers. They said it cannot be anywhere in or on the mail box, but it can be on the post. I had mine on the flag. I didn't get a fine, just a warning.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Again:

Look at 18 USC 1725 http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/83/1725

and

section 508 3.2.5 of the postal regulations - http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/508.htm (scroll down to 3.2.5)


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

scottL;862257 said:


> Folk Lore. Inside box requires postage. Outside requires nothing and is not restricted by federal law which trumps state and local. Your state or local may have laws but, they would get tossed - that's just how it all works. I've run in to it, stood my ground and they came clean saying they were pressured to insist these taggings stoped. In the ned a busy body complained but, had nothing more they could do - even with the police. Here's another ditty - if the box is blocked ( flowers, vines, broken, taped, etc. ) the only thing that will happen is the house owner will be given a notice to fix before delivery begins again.
> 
> As a matter of business I find better residential response from; local newpaper or door flyers than anything on a mail box.


"D041 Customer Mail Receptacles
Use for Mail 1.3 
Except under 2.11, the receptacles described in 1.1 may be used only
for matter bearing postage. Other than as permitted by 2.10 or 2.11,
*no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not
bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by,
attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle.* Any
mailable matter not bearing postage and found as described above is
subject to the same postage as would be paid if it were carried by
mail.

And this:

"USPS' Postal Bulletin (Issue 21861, 2-17-94, p. 37):"

"Mailable Matter* in or on* Private Mail Receptacles Mailable matter not
bearing postage found in or on private mail receptacles represents a
revenue deficiency to the Postal Service and is a* violation of federal
law. Title 18 United States Code, section 1725*, provides for a fine of
not more than $300 per piece for these violations. All employees must
uniformly enforce the procedures detailed in the Domestic Mail Manual,
section P011.2.0. The failure to enforce these procedures uniformly
may jeopardize the criminal prosecution of repeated violators."

Take the word of a contractor......Or take the word of the Postal Service.....Your choice


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## jblatti13 (Jan 24, 2009)

take these guys advice, dont put anything on the box, the post, the flag, anywhere.

i went about fliers this way, and its even quicker than doing the mailboxes.

stuff the fliers in plastic bags, i used door hanger bags.

drive down the street, roll em up so u can toss em, and throw em at the end of their driveway. it gets far enough up there so they dont blow into the street or anywhere.

trust me, its quicker than doing the mail boxes. i passd out around 400 fliers in a little more than an hour.


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## CHCSnowman (Nov 11, 2006)

I just got thru paying another fine with the US Postal Service for inserting fliers in mailbox flags. It happens to me all the time.....I have only fought the fine once, and let me tell you it is not worth the hassle. Now I just bombard every mailbox and wait on my certified letter from USPS....it takes them months to fine you!!

I also use a direct market lead company.....

I am a roofing contractor and needless to say, when a hail storm hits.....it is vital we invade every neighborhood and saturate with our info. Early bird gets the worm. The USPS fine is just part of my advertisement budget. My last fine was around $200....and I signed over $35,000 in contracts as a result of fliers. Pretty good gamble.

If you read the law it says "knowingly".......your first time it is easy to just say you didnt know.......but that is your only mulligan.


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## Going Commercial (Oct 15, 2008)

In my earlier days we made the mistake of putting them in the mailbox and we were called by the postmaster. I was told by him we can hang on the flag. We started hanging on the flag using door knob bags and then got another call because we left the flags in the raised position and the mail carrier had to check every mailbox even if he did not have to deliver mail to a home because that is the signal that people have outgoing mail. Postmaster said there was no problem in hanging them on the flag just do not put the flag in the raised position.


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

Going commercial.

Keep in mind that the postmaster only handles one mail zone. So maybe HE doesn't have a problem with it, but all you need is him to be on vacation or another postmaster to swap in and you;ll have problems.

The postmaster has discretion whether he wants to persue the law, just the same as a police officer has discretion. But the law still exists and can be used at any time.


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## WeDoSnowplowing (Nov 9, 2009)

I found it was cheaper to put an ad in the newspaper. Cost of paper, cost of the ink, & the cost of fuel to Make & take flyers around. Cost news paper here like $15.00 1 time to $35.00 3 times per week.


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## plowman_25 (Nov 16, 2005)

thanks for all the info guys.... i am going to put them in doors and i am looking for local businesses that let me hang something where people will see it. so far not to many calls tho....hopefully when we get the first flurry it will get busy

drew


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