# What are my options??



## BEER TIME (Feb 16, 2010)

Well my problem is that I have a 1500 ft driveway that needs to get cleared and a 1/2 mile gravel road that the snow plow takes usually a 1 1/2 days to clear! This year has been a PIMA getting to work and clearing all the snow. What I do have is an atv with a plow and a 99 1/2 ton chevy. What are my best options, straight blade plow, v-plow, tractor-snowblower. Is my truck big enough for a v-plow?


----------



## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

You can most defintaly put a 7'6" spor duty, but if that's all your doing, you don't need a v plow, unless yur doing commercial.


----------



## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*long commute and snow*



BEER TIME;1004146 said:


> Well my problem is that I have a 1500 ft driveway that needs to get cleared and a 1/2 mile gravel road that the snow plow takes usually a 1 1/2 days to clear! This year has been a PIMA getting to work and clearing all the snow. What I do have is an atv with a plow and a 99 1/2 ton chevy. What are my best options, straight blade plow, v-plow, tractor-snowblower. Is my truck big enough for a v-plow?


With the amount of ground you have to cover a used/surplus snow cat with wide tracks may be the best bet as it has high flotation/low ground pressure.

Or a surplus road grader with an all weather cab-lots of them around and they are normally in good shape as they are used the year round.

most all the modern graders are six wheel drive automatics for the smaller ones and the larger ones are 8 wheel drive automatics. etc.

www.dewagter.com snow cat web links, machinery for sale, parts.

www.rbauctions.com rithchie brothers auction service-nation wide listings

There are also a lot of surplus equipment auctions for construction machinery
and the auctioneers have web sites that list equipment upcoming.
.

A lot of surplus road graders are set up with V plows already or can be fitted with them.

And you could leave the truck parked where you leave the grader and use the grader to travel back an forth to the truck iif you wanted to.

The smallest snow cats can carry plows or PTO powered three point hitch snow blowers

the only limitations are your time and your available funds for any option.


----------



## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

ajslands;1004201 said:


> You can most defintaly put a 7'6" spor duty, but if that's all your doing, you don't need a v plow, unless yur doing commercial.


Yep, what he said. There is no reason that can't be done with one truck and a straight blade. No need for a V.


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

How much snow do you receive in a typical storm? Is drifting a big problem?

If heavy snows and/or drifting are common, you might want to get a Vee. They are a little heavy for a half ton, but you won't be traveling any distance with it.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

leon;1004222 said:


> With the amount of ground you have to cover a used/surplus snow cat with wide tracks may be the best bet as it has high flotation/low ground pressure.
> 
> Or a surplus road grader with an all weather cab-lots of them around and they are normally in good shape as they are used the year round.
> 
> ...


Leon, REALLY!! A surplus road grader or snow cat!?!? Let's get real.


----------



## thesnowman269 (Nov 7, 2009)

WIPensFan;1004561 said:


> Leon, REALLY!! A surplus road grader or snow cat!?!? Let's get real.


I was thinking the same thing haha


----------



## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

I know what a grader is, but what's a snow cat?


----------



## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Nvm just googled it, Leon he's plowing a driveway and a road not grooming a ski hill. But w/e.


----------



## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow*



ajslands;1004589 said:


> Nvm just googled it, Leon he's plowing a driveway and a road not grooming a ski hill. But w/e.


did anyone read that it takes hm a day and half to have a plow clear it for him????????????????????????????/


----------



## BEER TIME (Feb 16, 2010)

Well thanks for the advice but im looking for something smaller and not so expensive. as for it taking 1 1/2 days is cause thats when he finally gets it to. I live in sw minnesota so the wind blows alot here and lots of snow this year. thanks for all the imput keep them coming


----------



## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Just get boss sport duty, or a western idk westerns plows but i know boss


----------



## snowfighter75 (Mar 10, 2007)

Straight blade of your choice would do it. I like the Western Midweight myself. You don't need a V. A little heavy for a half ton. I know guys do it but its not a good idea.


----------



## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

snowfighter75;1005151 said:


> Straight blade of your choice would do it. I like the Western Midweight myself. You don't need a V. A little heavy for a half ton. I know guys do it but its not a good idea.


Right on the money


----------



## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow*



BEER TIME;1005017 said:


> Well thanks for the advice but im looking for something smaller and not so expensive. as for it taking 1 1/2 days is cause thats when he finally gets it to. I live in sw minnesota so the wind blows alot here and lots of snow this year. thanks for all the imput keep them coming


It would have been more benefitial if the OP had described his dilema a bit more definitively
for all concerned.

I took what he stated at face value in his blanket statement about his acces or lack there of rather than simply stating he had to plow a "ROAD" in addition to the 1,500 driveway.


----------



## BEER TIME (Feb 16, 2010)

Do you guys think even with a straight plow I will be able to get through3-4 foot drifts? Just checking my options. There are some trucks for sale with v-plows and straight plows if my truck isnt big enough. Also I worry about my driveway wind rowing it so bad that pretty soon theres no room for the snow. Thanks alot guys


----------



## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Plow with the storm or get snow fencing, then you won't have to worry about 4' drifts


----------



## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow*

For all the work you apparently have to go through, a farm tractor and snow blower will be less work and there will be no piles of snow to deal wit at all.

There is lot of good used iron in your area and the Puma 84 or 94 would solve your problems with drifting the first time

Even the smaller puma will work well as the snow will simply be gone. The Puma 84-94 inch blowers only need 40-75 PTO horsepower

to handle what you apparently have to deal with in one pass.

:waving:

www.pronovost.qc.ca/snowblowers


----------



## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Leon he's looking for a plow for his truck, not a whole new vehicle, and it's a dirt road, so rocks would be like firing a machine gun


----------



## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow*



BEER TIME;1005183 said:


> Do you guys think even with a straight plow I will be able to get through3-4 foot drifts? Just checking my options. There are some trucks for sale with v-plows and straight plows if my truck isnt big enough. Also I worry about my driveway wind rowing it so bad that pretty soon theres no room for the snow. Thanks alot guys


Your dealing with a simple physics question being a body in motion aganst a semi solid mass not counting snow melt.

your dealing with a mass of snow that weighs 20 or more pounds per cubic foot for x distance.

So if you have a drift that is 16 feet wide and 4 feet high and 40 feet long you have;

a drift that can have 2600 cubic feet (rounded) of mass and each cubic foot of snow will weigh 20 pounds per cubic foot.

That specific drift will weigh 26 tons alone.

A single cut of snow 7 feet wide, 40 feet long and four feet deep will be 12 tons of material

(rounded) with a v plow or straight blade you are attempting to push the material forward

and to the side trying to push the mass in front of the truck which is being pushed and

compacted together with the action of the plow into a more dense mass per cubic foot

and the forward action of the plow is creating the compacted mass and thats unavoidable

as the weight of the plow truck and plow are pushing it forward in the case of a straight

blade or a V plow which compacts it to the point the physical mass is greater in weight

than the vehicle used to push it.

if the straight blade has a three foot height the surface area is twenty one square feet and 
you are attempting to push 21 square feet or cubic feet in to the next 21 cubic feet of material
with the material on either side of the plow increasing the resistance as the snow is being pushed 
forward as any snow slipping sideways is adding weight to thr remaining snow pack and falling in back of the blade.

Every foot of advance adds 420 pounds of snow or more weight into the next 21 one cubic feet of snow adding that much
more weight for the plow to overcome with brute force and if the plow loses traction because of the weight of the snow mass 
in front of it plowing is a useless endeavor as the weight of the vehicle and available tractive force is unuseable as its mass is too small
to overcome the snow drifts weight en masse.

Its no different than a Jordan Spreader mounted on a consist of locomotives used to provide motive power for the v plow on the 
Jorden Sspreader if the snow is too heavy it will stop and derailt he Jordan spreader and one or more of the locomotives beacuse:

1. the jordan spreader has no power unit or drive thus rendering the contact area of the wheel sets useless the contact area of railroad wheel is only 4-5 square inches per wheel.

2. the locomotives wheel sets are powered but as they only have 4-square inches of contact they can only provide that much contact area to deliver the same energy.
a locomotive may have wheel trucks that may have 2 or 3 wheels per truck.
b a two wheel truck will have 4 wheels with a total of 16-20 square inches of contact area per truck a three wheel truck 32-40 square inches total in contact area that must provide the 
tractive effort for the entire weight of the individual locomotive which may weigh 200 tons with fuel.

c. A four locomotive consist may only have 160 to 320 square inches of contact area to create traction and if the weight of the snow is greater than the available tractive effort
referred to as "Adhesion" to push the four locomotives and the Jordan Spreader.

3 A plow truck is no different where the contact area of the plow edge is carrying the entire weight of the plow even though it is being pushed forward pushing and compacting any snow in front of the plow with the weight of the plow is added to the mass of the snow pile weight.
so if the plow weighs 400 pounds the weight is pressing down on the cutting edge adding 57 pounds per foot of weight on the cutting edge plus the weight snow it is trying to push which is becoming heavier due to the forward motion of the plow.

A truck or car tire only has a few square inches of area in contact with the road surface and if its slippery the truck has no adhesion for the available tractive effort.
A small plow truck may have only 4 inches of contact area per tire and the weight of the material being plowed will eventually stop any mechanical advantage from the available
tractive effort which becomes zero due to loss of any availabe "adhesion" from the road surface and the machinery weight.

Visit Youtube.com/railroadsnow plows to see snow plow consist being buried when it tries to open a main line with a Jordan spreader rather than a rotary plow unit.

:waving:


----------



## k5PlowGuy (Feb 4, 2009)

Wow that's a whole lot of useless information. Plow with the storms and you'll be fine with a straigh blade. If you do fall behind in a storm, plow in sections and take passes at the drifting sections by not dropping the blade to the ground all the way on the first pass.


----------



## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow*

You may think its useless information but physics is still physics
and the laws of physics involving resistance and bodies in motion and 
weight are not something that is going to be overcome.

Physics rules every thing that is done or physically possible 
with motion, gravity, or mass, which is any action creating and equal and opposite 
reaction in any circumstance

If the OP was more clear in his original posting rather than being so vague.............

And If the OP can not plow with the storm as you suggest what then?

Am I still stupid in offering useless information and will the laws of physics that govern your universe and mine will no longer apply when the snow drifts and compacts due to the action of physics and the action of temperature affecting the snow mass creating snow melt and compaction increasing the weight of the snow mass per cubic foot?

Then What??????

:laughing:


----------



## PlatinumService (Jan 28, 2010)

x2 on the useless info its like reading a novel thats not relevant to the specs that guy asked for

straight blade will work but if you want a v blade boss 7'6 is 700#s its 120#s lighter than fisher and western 7'6 v's

good luck with your purchase


----------



## brian r webber (Feb 2, 2010)

straight 7foot 6 inch blade would suit your needs. like they said plow with the storm and take small bites out of drifts.your truck is 4x4 right?


----------



## snowfighter75 (Mar 10, 2007)

Everyone seems to be for the straight blade. I think so too. Plow with the storm and birdfoot track if ya have to. You'll be fine. All the best!


----------



## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow*

As the OP stated he was looking for options including a tractor snow blower etc.

The OP description was very MISLEADING as it was not clear in the description of his predicament.

The OP never mentioned he had a four wheel drive truck "to begin with" and his stating would a plow go on my truck?, adding that he was looking at other trucks should have been an eye opener-it was for me anyway.

Why ask us as he The OP was familiar with his winter conditions more than anyone here any way.

As for my postings being worthless information or a novel, I suppose no one would have bothered reading it. I will ask to have my repsonses to the OP purged/removed.


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

leon;1004748 said:


> did anyone read that it takes hm a day and half to have a plow clear it for him????????????????????????????/


It does not take a day and a half to plow it, it takes that long for them to get there to do the job.

A straight blade on the pick up should be more then sufficient,


----------



## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Beertime,
I would say you may be licked here as I dont really know how much the driveway is protected from the wind and I see your in Minn so I can imagine you could get some big dumps of snow . To give you an example I have a 1/2 ton with a V plow on it and I have chains and the proper amount of ballist behind the rear axle. I also have a 600 ft driveway that is exposed compleatly to the wind so it can have huge drifts in it with a big storm . The driveway is slightly say around 5% uphill . When that driveway gets a good whack of snow in it; because I didnt get up in the middle of the night; and plow it . The truck has ALL it wants to plow it if we get 12- 18" of heavy snow. Even with the V; which is a big advantage; to bust open the first pass; I often have to back up and bunt the heck out of those big drifts . Normally it will handle it fine; but if you are going to be looking at those sorta conditions more than a few times a year you may want to look into something different ????? A tractor seams to be on the other end of the scale from a pickup and even though it has way less horsepower most anyone that has ever used one would tell you that it has the ability to get maintain traction to the wheels in a compleatly different way. The same bank of snow you would need to hit a heck of a smash to move with a pickup can be easily moved by just shoving on it with the tractor. A 3ft drift is not a big deal to a properly riged up 40hp Tractor with chains and a 4ft drift is very workable you just need to take your time. I think your 1/2 ton with a straight plow is going to work some of the time. Until you get a big storm and dont plow with the storm; and it gets ahead of you; and then you are going to be in touble with that combo especially with the distance you need to plow. So its all about how much snow you get on a regular basis. Little storms with 6-8" of snow your truck will do it . If you commonly get 12-18" snowfalls up there you are going to be struggling to do it without bigger riggin???
Leon has done all the math on it for you so you can see the amazing weights we are all pushing around with these plows and when you see it on paper it is quite something we do as well as we do!


----------



## BEER TIME (Feb 16, 2010)

LEON, THANKS FOR HELPING BUT NOT HELPING. INSTEAD OF GIVING ME REALISTIC OPTIONS YOU JUST SEEM TO LIKE TO BASH THE (OP) FOR NOT GIVING ENOUGH INFORMATION. I'M NOT HERE TO GET A DEGREE IN PHYSICS I JUST NEED TO MOVE SNOW AND YES ITS A 4X4, I LIVE IN MN. As for everybody else THANKS for all the help. I was worried that a V-plow would be a little heavy for my truck. Its just tough to spend that kind of money dedicated for snow removal just 4 months out of the year. Thanks again!


----------



## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow*

I was not insulting or bashing you, nor was that my intent in my posting. snow and ice removal require huge amounts of energy to dispose of it and that is something that will never vary.

I simply took the time to investigate and comment on your situation for what little of it you described

And as a result I took the time to explain why a plow would not work on a small vehicle and how a tractor mounted snow blower would provide the power and efficiency you would need in a smaller machine less horsepower and snow blower that would physically remove the material in front of it wilth less effort and energy.

It was never my intent to insult you or discredit you or create problems for you or anyone else for any reason on the forum and I will never attack anyone on this forum or the other forums I am a member or moderator of. Quite iften we recieve greater snow falls in new york than most states in the union in general and now that Lake Erie is frozen we may get even more lake effect snow from Lake Ontario. I believe you also recieve more snow fall when Lake Huron freezes over for the winter season from canadian snow storms and we have to deal with it.

Its nothing more than an exercise in efficiency as a snow removal apppliance is either passive or active with a plow being a passive method of removal until it can no longer overcome the resistance of snow pack or accumulations.

A snow blower uses either the single stage impeller or a two stage impeller to overcome acccumulations and snow pack to accomplish this using centrifigal energy and forward motion.

A large singer stage drum auger snow thrower has the advantage of removing and disposing of the entire accumulation of snow in front of it every second it operates.
The reason it is so efficient is because the drum auger has a larger solid drum with a small narrow auger ribbon that allows it to cut a very small amount of snow quickly and dispose of it with the high speed rotation of the drum created by the snow blowers gear box.

A large or small two stage open or solid cross auger snow blower accomplishes the same work using less energy as well with a very high efficiency per ton of snow per hour with the flooding of the cross auger housing with the forward motion of the implement.

A tractor mounted snow blower uses it mechaincal advantage where the width per foot of cut is the load factor and if you have a 48 inch puma snow blower for example
using a 40 horse power tractor the snow blower has slightly less than ten horse power per foot of width to remove the accumulation in front of the auger housing.
where only a few horse power per foot is used to provide the energy to provide the forward motion or rearward motion to propel the implement carrier.

You can bury a snow blower just as easily as a plow if you are moving to fast and flood it to the point where the cross auger becomes so packed that the impeller 
will cause the slip clutch to slip and loose traction/adhesion where the slip clutch springs release their pressure against the mating half of the propeller shaft.

It was never, nor will it ever be a case of my bashing you, insulting anyone, or degrading this forum as a member.

I joined the forum based simply on my USPTO granted deicing and snow removal patent method, my past work experience with machineries and the mining of Halite of in which I was involved with as an occupation for the 22 years, in which I was a member of the underground mining community in the United States until I was disposed of by my former employer being the last Journeyman Mechanic doing the same job for all those years and replaced by a mine laborer for half my salary at the time of my dismissal.

I offer a sincere apology to you and the other members if you feel have been offended.

leon:waving:


----------



## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*snow*

My apologies for the previous typos, I will be more attentive in the future or hope to be anyway.

:waving:


----------



## ve9aa (Mar 6, 2007)

I am not sure if this is an option for you or not (keep reading), but I have a long very wide driveway and small parking lot. (about 225' long, 20' wide, with a 60x60' parking lot up near the house) . A larger path over to my sheds, etx. etc. It's a LOT of snow to clear. I live in NB (Eastern Canada) on top of a big hill, wide open to snow/wind/etc., and it's not uncommon to get 3 and 4 foot drifts several times per year. I *was *doing it all with a 10hp/28" snowblower (killing myself) , which would literally take me HOURS.....now I use a 45" cut/13hp walk behind blower with dual wheels ($2500 new)....it's is *ALMOST *as good as a small farm tractor and I can do the driveway in an hour even in bad storms.
I wouldn't dream of going back to a small blower......but I would easily tackle a 300', 400' single wide driveway with this beast. Heck, even my 130lb wife used it onetime when I had to be away.


----------



## ve9aa (Mar 6, 2007)

OOPPS! I just re-read your initial post. I thought for some reason you said 500' driveway....which I could do with this blower....not sure I'd WANT to do a 1500' driveway or a 1/2 mile road, but I am sure I COULD do a 1500' driveway...LOL...sorry.

I would be in the minority here and say buy an old farm tractor with a blower on it. Come spring, you could PROBABLY find a good one all set up for $2500. . . .

When the storms are fierce up here, we don't even see plow trucks emerge until the farm tractors have been out. (I live in farm country)


----------



## Bigcat99 (Jan 7, 2009)

BEER TIME;1006168 said:


> LEON, THANKS FOR HELPING BUT NOT HELPING. INSTEAD OF GIVING ME REALISTIC OPTIONS YOU JUST SEEM TO LIKE TO BASH THE (OP) FOR NOT GIVING ENOUGH INFORMATION. I'M NOT HERE TO GET A DEGREE IN PHYSICS I JUST NEED TO MOVE SNOW AND YES ITS A 4X4, I LIVE IN MN. As for everybody else THANKS for all the help. I was worried that a V-plow would be a little heavy for my truck. Its just tough to spend that kind of money dedicated for snow removal just 4 months out of the year. Thanks again!


..............

Seriously though, I understood what you were asking in the initial post. You may consider looking for a used 7.6 Boss V (run one on my Chevy 1500). The V would come in handy whenever you would need to stack - as well as busting through the occasional longer drift. If you find one, I would reccomend timbrens and tossing some ballast in the box to help offset the weight of the plow. good luck!


----------

