# Drifting snow on driveways?



## peterk800xc

Hello all Members. Just a question on all who have seasonal contracts. When you give a quote for a driveway do any of you charge additional for drifting snow or do you just head out and plow it? Years ago people could actually drive on 2" of snow but nowadays as soon as they see a little drifting in a couple places they're on the phone. Next year in my quotes I'm thinking of charging additionally. Nays thoughts? Thank you and everyone drive safe and have a good New Year.


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## Mr.Markus

I get this... Customer expectations have changed a lot since I first started almost 30 years ago. Its funny to see the differences and similarities that other contractors have. Typically where I am the small 2 car driveways don't hire someone to clear their drives but the big ones do and some that I do; other contractors wouldn't touch because of the potential for mishaps.
Because we're pretty rural its not the customer who has a problem with a little snow in the driveway, its their visitors during the holidays,babysitters, cleaning ladies, fuel deliveries etc. You need a flub factor in your estimate for non event visits. Knowing your average snowfall amounts is a good baseline but shouldn't be your only consideration.


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## UltraLwn&Lndscp

"We do not monitor for blowing or drifting snow outside of snow events. If your driveway has drifted in please contact us for an estimate to clear your property." It was written something like that years back when we did a lot more residential work. We try not to run all over town to chase the few properties that drift in, but these days the ones that are left that do are charged accordingly, initially, and taken care of. Cheers.


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## WIPensFan

LOL! Interesting to see people realize the pitfalls of seasonal contracts. I always cleared drifting but always charged each time. Same with coming back to clear drifted walks and city plow berms in the end of the drives. And when you charge seasonally, all these things are seen as a nuisance, when really they should be treated as performing a professional service.


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## Gcard

WIPensFan said:


> LOL! Interesting to see people realize the pitfalls of seasonal contracts. I always cleared drifting but always charged each time. Same with coming back to clear drifted walks and city plow berms in the end of the drives. And when you charge seasonally, all these things are seen as a nuisance, when really they should be treated as performing a professional service.


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## Gcard

One are the biggest callbacks I get is when county plows the streets after you have plowed the residential driveway. I Do charge to come back and clear the end of the driveway out again. It's not in a written contract just an oral agreement. If they call you back you should expect to get paid. If not it will cut into your profits severely. Customers should understand this.


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## Philbilly2

In areas that commonly drift, do you plow all the snow to the east side?

Out here 95% of out wind comes from the west, if you don't have a pile or windrow on the west side, it typically blows right accross.


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## Luther

Charging extra, or not charging the client at all for blowing and drifting, and or clearing their driveway threshold after road plowing is certainly your prerogative. Unreasonable client expectation is typically the result of lack of communication on the contractors part. If you do charge extra for blowing and drifting that should’ve been clearly communicated to the client...not just in print on your contract. It’s the only thing that changes their cost.


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## Herm Witte

Food for thought. You own a snow plow service. You sell seasonal contracts for your service. I purchase your service because I can not nor do not wish to shovel. I do not wish to be stuck in my driveway because it is drifted over or the approach plugged up due to the street plows. I expect that to be part of the deal and would only contract with someone that provides a complete service. This is what we do folks, do it well! Are you worried that your profits will melt away with the snow? In your proposal or scope of service place a seasonal cap on the amount of service visits and charge additionally when that cap is reached.


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## framer1901

That written above applies to any and all service work, I would only add, cap it or price it accordingly - I personally don't like caps, means I gotta count LOL


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## Luther

UltraLwn&Lndscp said:


> "We do not monitor for blowing or drifting snow outside of snow events. If your driveway has drifted in please contact us for an estimate to clear your property." It was written something like that years back when we did a lot more residential work. We try not to run all over town to chase the few properties that drift in, but these days the ones that are left that do are charged accordingly.


Do you also service commercial/retail/medical/etc. facilities? If so, do you not monitor the sites and service them accordingly for melt and refreeze issues to keep them safe? This is outside of snow events. Should this be a billable service if you had a seasonal agreement in place?


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## Gcard

Herm Witte said:


> Food for thought. You own a snow plow service. You sell seasonal contracts for your service. I purchase your service because I can not nor do not wish to shovel. I do not wish to be stuck in my driveway because it is drifted over or the approach plugged up due to the street plows. I expect that to be part of the deal and would only contract with someone that provides a complete service. This is what we do folks, do it well! Are you worried that your profits will melt away with the snow? In your proposal or scope of service place a seasonal cap on the amount of service visits and charge additionally when that cap is reached.


I have always charged my customers per plow. Never had then commit themself to paying seasonal. I don't believe in charging someone for work that I didn't do. I have done this for 38 years. Mother nature is not something I want to risk. My customers have always been understanding as long as you are fair, reliable and honest. But I do know others that have had success with seasonal contracts. So just opinion. Not saying which is better. Whatever works for you.


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## plow4beer

I would rather price the job so I didn’t have to worry about going back to clean drifts, or mess with a “cap”. Whole point for most resi customers to go seasonal is so they don’t have to even think about it all winter...they know exactly what their gonna pay and that it will always get done.


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## jonniesmooth

My 2" triggered seasonal accounts contract says "does not allow for wind events" But, returning to clear plow ridges is included. If we encounter drifting while clearing the ridge, we clear it. We also clear public walks on these accounts if it doesn't hit the trigger, If we get 3 snows that don't hit the trigger, we will run the route and clean things up if we are running the zero tolerance route. 
We also have zero tolerance accounts that we monitor for thaw-refreeze, drifting etc.
It's all in how you word the contract, and what the customer wants, and wants to pay for.
One thing I have added to my contracts is choice of if they want us to sand/salt if needed. If they say "no" we have an extra layer against liability for slip and fall.
I did my first seasonal on a rural (11 miles out of town) account this year, this contract has a cap of 20 services. I sent his Jan. invoice marked "skip a month, Happy New Year!" We have only been there 2x and the second time ( we had 2"+ in town) we didn't even unload the tractor, it blow clear.
I also signed a new seasonal in town. It snows +/- 1", she calls, when are you coming? "we didn't get 2"
Oh, well, my son said it did.
Did your son measure it at my house? (the official measuring location, per our contract)
She switched to the zero tolerance plan. It will be interesting to see how she reacts to her bill for the month, it's $63 more then the contract price would be.
For what it's worth. I tried to keep on topic, sometimes stuff just flows together, in my head anyway.


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## Brettny

I only to redi and per push. We dont get drifting here, to many trees and bushes. I have got called back to clean the end of the driveway after the town,city, county has plowed.
Usualy charge full amount but on bigger driveways i will charge them half.


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## UltraLwn&Lndscp

Luther said:


> Do you also service commercial/retail/medical/etc. facilities? If so, do you not monitor the sites and service them accordingly for melt and refreeze issues to keep them safe? This is outside of snow events. Should this be a billable service if you had a seasonal agreement in place?


I live in South Florida, so I don't service anything.Thumbs Up


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## BUFF

Mr.Markus said:


> I get this... Customer expectations have changed a lot since I first started almost 30 years ago.


 They've become morons and entitled..... expecting to be able to hop in their mini van or fwd car with half worn all season tires and not be delayed or put oot by snow..



Philbilly2 said:


> In areas that commonly drift, do you plow all the snow to the east side?
> 
> Out here 95% of out wind comes from the west, if you don't have a pile or windrow on the west side, it typically blows right accross.


As simple as this sounds it amazes me how many people don't understand this.


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## WIPensFan

BUFF said:


> They've become morons and entitled..... expecting to be able to hop in their mini van or fwd car with half worn all season tires and not be delayed or put oot by snow..
> 
> IMO contractors and service based businesses have also gone down the toilet in many cases. Laziness and lack of attention to detail is rampant. Because of the lack of quality in the workforce really.
> 
> As simple as this sounds it amazes me how many people don't understand this.


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## BUFF

IMO contractors and service based businesses have also gone down the toilet in many cases. Laziness and lack of attention to detail is rampant. Because of the lack of quality in the workforce really.

I can agree, I got out of snow this year and the way my old accounts are being serviced is disgusting.


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## WIPensFan

BUFF said:


> IMO contractors and service based businesses have also gone down the toilet in many cases. Laziness and lack of attention to detail is rampant. Because of the lack of quality in the workforce really.
> 
> I can agree, I got out of snow this year and the way my old accounts are being serviced is disgusting.


Good for you. Enjoy it when it snows now


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## BUFF

WIPensFan said:


> Good for you. Enjoy it when it snows now


I am....... but for some jacked up reason when there's snow in the forecast I still get up several times a night to look out the window to see what's going on...... And it's not to pee either....
Old habits I guess.


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## WIPensFan

BUFF said:


> I am....... but for some jacked up reason when there's snow in the forecast I still get up several times a night to look out the window to see what's going on...... And it's not to pee either....
> Old habits I guess.


Ha! Yeah that anxiety never goes away.


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## Randall Ave

The first year I didn't do the town roads, I still could not sleep when its was going to snow.


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## Bighammer

Gcard said:


> One are the biggest callbacks I get is when county plows the streets after you have plowed the residential driveway. I Do charge to come back and clear the end of the driveway out again. It's not in a written contract just an oral agreement. If they call you back you should expect to get paid. If not it will cut into your profits severely. Customers should understand this.


Clearing the road or street so the county plow has nothing left to bury the drive with can help.


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## jonniesmooth

Bighammer said:


> Clearing the road or street so the county plow has nothing left to bury the drive with can help.


We've had so little snow this month, I had forgotten this little trick until I was bidding a new account this week and when the guy brought it up it jogged my memory. 
Our streets are always plowed with the flow of traffic. IDK if that is the case everywhere.
When I was done, I messaged my subs to remind them that we should clear the street on the upward side of the approach, to lessen the amount that would be pushed back in. With the tractor it's only a couple passes, doesn't take a minute.
I did see a news story the other day, I think it was out east. A guy was ordered by the sheriff to quit plowing his street. Nope, it was in Idaho.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...et/248072893&usg=AOvVaw2V4VbykCLThVri65NpQI7B


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## Philbilly2

BUFF said:


> I am....... but for some jacked up reason when there's snow in the forecast I still get up several times a night to look out the window to see what's going on...... And it's not to pee either....
> Old habits I guess.


About 4 years of that...

I still love to know about the storm and what is going to be headed our way, but I sleep just fine at night now... Thumbs Up


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## Mr.Markus

When I was young my parents moved from the city to Erin. My father had dreams of living off the land. The snow was deep back then my friends..when our 3/4 mile drive became impassable my father parked at the end and walked in and out.(he still commuted into the city for work everyday) once in a while an old guy named JC Barnes would come by with a relic of a tractor blower and blow the drive out. We would be snowed in for a week before he showed up. Life was simpler when I was a kid...
I'm gonna write a book along the lines of Stand By Me...
Spent most of the day yesterday trying to set up a google home. I long for a log cabin and a fireplace...


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## Philbilly2

Mr.Markus said:


> When I was young my parents moved from the city to Erin. My father had dreams of living off the land. The snow was deep back then my friends..when our 3/4 mile drive became impassable my father parked at the end and walked in and out.(he still commuted into the city for work everyday) once in a while an old guy named JC Barnes would come by with a relic of a tractor blower and blow the drive out. We would be snowed in for a week before he showed up. Life was simpler when I was a kid...
> I'm gonna write a book along the lines of Stand By Me...
> Spent most of the day yesterday trying to set up a google home. I long for a log cabin and a fireplace...


I got a story like that...

When my folks first moved to the little farm town I grew up in, we lived about 5 miles north of town. my mom was a kindergarten teacher at the school. The administration made a point when they hired her that "out here we are tough, we don't have snow days"

So after the first few times that dad had to plow the drifts out the way till he got her out to the hard road with a tractor with a grader blade, he bought my mom a snowmobile and she would just ride that to work...

Them farm women are a different breed...


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## BUFF

In rural areas oot west it can be days before roads are passable. Weather dictates your life and all you can do is work with it along with having food storage and fuel.


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## Philbilly2

BUFF said:


> As simple as this sounds it amazes me how many people don't understand this.


I just wish I could get my road commissioner to grasp the concept one of these years. Instead, they just have to come threw at the top of the hill every other day or so and wing it back again, and again, and again... 

Guess they need something to do...


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## FredG

BUFF said:


> I am....... but for some jacked up reason when there's snow in the forecast I still get up several times a night to look out the window to see what's going on...... And it's not to pee either....
> Old habits I guess.


We are creatures of habit.


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## JustJeff

Philbilly2 said:


> I got a story like that...
> 
> When my folks first moved to the little farm town I grew up in, we lived about 5 miles north of town. my mom was a kindergarten teacher at the school. The administration made a point when they hired her that "out here we are tough, we don't have snow days"
> 
> So after the first few times that dad had to plow the drifts out the way till he got her out to the hard road with a tractor with a grader blade, he bought my mom a snowmobile and she would just ride that to work...
> 
> Them farm women are a different breed...


My wife grew up in a far Northern town in WI. Her parents and grandparents owned a small fishing resort. Her Mom also drove a school bus. They lived a mile down a dirt road, and her Mom had to park the school bus at the end of the driveway and walk to and from the bus because the roads were too muddy for the bus to get through. My wife grew up pretty tough with a can do attitude. She can back a trailer, and fillet a Northern better than I can.


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## BUFF

Philbilly2 said:


> I just wish I could get my road commissioner to grasp the concept one of these years. Instead, they just have to come threw at the top of the hill every other day or so and wing it back again, and again, and again...
> 
> Guess they need something to do...


Snow fence is used a lot oot here, structural and living. Some area's the DOT uses dozers to windrow snow in pastures to act as snow fence.

My uncle in Medicine Bow uses snow fence on ridgelines to capture snow that is used to replenish his stock ponds. He's got a few ponds he's expanded to be aboot 30 surface acres and 15' deep and added several over the years. By doing this he doesn't have to pump water to stock tanks in several areas which is a pita.


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## Mr.Markus

Lol, one year I convinced a farmer on my road to use his wrapped round bales as a snow fence for the road as it really drifted in front of his farm and everyone was getting stuck leaving him to pull them out. It worked great, but he was very unhappy the next time I talked to him. " they are a b$%&h to get to through the snow that encased them..."


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

I am also curious about this thread as I am now dealing with snow drifts and such, I live in a very windy area.

It would make sense to me if blowing snow does exceed my trigger clearing would be included as I am on seasonal contracts. 

Would it be advisable to ask clients (residential or commercial) to notify me when blowing snow does exceed 5 cm for example on their property?

Or am I obliged to always be checking my sites, for blowing snow, trigger threshold, and icy patches, daily or every 2 -3 days? (I have been doing this)

If it doesn't snow for 1 - 2 weeks are you guys always checking your sites? Both Residential & Commerical?


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## WIPensFan

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> I am also curious about this thread as I am now dealing with snow drifts and such, I live in a very windy area.
> 
> It would make sense to me if blowing snow does exceed my trigger clearing would be included as I am on seasonal contracts.
> 
> Would it be advisable to ask clients (residential or commercial) to notify me when blowing snow does exceed 5 cm for example on their property?
> 
> Or am I obliged to always be checking my sites, for blowing snow, trigger threshold, and icy patches, daily or every 2 -3 days? (I have been doing this)
> 
> If it doesn't snow for 1 - 2 weeks are you guys always checking your sites? Both Residential & Commerical?


I always knew which accounts would drift and always went next day after main event. Never once had an account let me know, I checked or just assumed if it was windy. Never did seasonal So charged accordingly when I had to clean up drifts. They are always harder to clear than the original snow...especially on walks! Not my fault you have a home or business that drifts, so you have to pay.


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## Philbilly2

Had a grocery store that was in the middle of a corn field when I subbed for a guy.

Plowed the entire lot to the east side of the lot. Guy I worked was from the suburbs and had a melt down and said I was doin that just to pad hours.

Didn't plow for that guy after that, but every time it snowed after that, I made a point to drive threw the back of the store the day or two after an event just to see how many of the loading docks were drifted in... 

Took a few years, but the whole lot is plowed to the east side every storm now... weird... Wonder why????


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## Mr.Markus

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> I am also curious about this thread as I am now dealing with snow drifts and such, I live in a very windy area.
> 
> It would make sense to me if blowing snow does exceed my trigger clearing would be included as I am on seasonal contracts.
> 
> Would it be advisable to ask clients (residential or commercial) to notify me when blowing snow does exceed 5 cm for example on their property?
> 
> Or am I obliged to always be checking my sites, for blowing snow, trigger threshold, and icy patches, daily or every 2 -3 days? (I have been doing this)
> 
> If it doesn't snow for 1 - 2 weeks are you guys always checking your sites? Both Residential & Commerical?


Tim.. it didn't snow last night but it sure did blow... Think your blowers will work here...?


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## Philbilly2

Mr.Markus said:


> View attachment 176245
> 
> Tim.. it didn't snow last night but it sure did blow... Think your blowers will work here...?


LMAO... that is eggactly what I deal with every day with my road commissioner on the North/ South road that leads to my road. 

Drifts closed just about every day, but we still plow snow to the west side every time...


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## Mr.Markus

The problem out here is no matter what you do there is a ridge that builds up. Plowing to the west works to minimize it but eventually it catches you. I have to run the tractor blower through this property 2-3 times a season to knock the walls back. It’s not fun due to the ditches on either side.


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## LapeerLandscape

Mr.Markus said:


> Lol, one year I convinced a farmer on my road to use his wrapped round bales as a snow fence for the road as it really drifted in front of his farm and everyone was getting stuck leaving him to pull them out. It worked great, but he was very unhappy the next time I talked to him. " they are a b$%&h to get to through the snow that encased them..."


I'm sure being in Canada the farmer pulled them out for free. In the US the farmer would buy a tow truck, put up a billboard with his number on it and charge them.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

There is much still I need to learn in this game!

Checked my resi clients, still look good to me.

Snow coming tomorrow!


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## Grantski

On the CT shoreline it's definitely a problem. Last storm we got about 8-10" but had some 2foot drifts and drifting after everything was cleared. Everyone got charged double / 12" price. I'm almost always charging full price for every visit now unless it's super quick & easy.  Especially with how demanding ppl have gotten like others mentioned. It's crazy if we get snow overnight - ppl expect to be out by 7am. I had to put my foot down on a few and drop a few others . Now just doing a handful snowblowing - cuz @ only 4-5 storms a season in my area - doesn't justify a big investment for plowing unless you are a large commercial company.


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## Philbilly2

Philbilly2 said:


> I just wish I could get my road commissioner to grasp the concept one of these years. Instead, they just have to come threw at the top of the hill every other day or so and wing it back again, and again, and again...
> 
> Guess they need something to do...


Snowed here yesterday... We got about 3-4" of fluffy light snow. Wind blew like a son of a gun all nite.

I only heard the truck come threw at about 8pm and again this am at about 4 when I was leaving for work.

Can you guess which side is the West side?


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## BUFF

Philbilly2 said:


> Snowed here yesterday... We got about 3-4" of fluffy light snow. Wind blew like a son of a gun all nite.
> 
> I only heard the truck come threw at about 8pm and again this am at about 4 when I was leaving for work.
> 
> Can you guess which side is the West side?
> 
> View attachment 176659


Are you heading north.....


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## Philbilly2

BUFF said:


> Are you heading north.....


Bingo... we have a winner.


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## BUFF

Philbilly2 said:


> Bingo... we have a winner.


Yippie....... To bad I too bizzie to collect my prize.....


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## A Hero Lawn Care

BUFF said:


> IMO contractors and service based businesses have also gone down the toilet in many cases. Laziness and lack of attention to detail is rampant. Because of the lack of quality in the workforce really.
> 
> I can agree, I got out of snow this year and the way my old accounts are being serviced is disgusting.


Should have handed them off to me lol. Yesterday way fun Buff man...

I was heading back to finish up an account today that needed some touching up and saw a plow driver pushing his snow from a car dealership all the way to a median across 104th lol... he almost nailed a car.

How was it not having to be up all day plowing? That fox31 had me confused. Lol telling us it was a full 24 event. . . Still a good push.

Anyhow, I look at it this way; I charge per push and charge what my accounts have accumulated. Drift or not. Pictures are worth 1000 words and working for free is silly.


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## BUFF

A Hero Lawn Care said:


> Should have handed them off to me lol. Yesterday way fun Buff man...
> 
> I was heading back to finish up an account today that needed some touching up and saw a plow driver pushing his snow from a car dealership all the way to a median across 104th lol... he almost nailed a car.
> 
> How was it not having to be up all day plowing? That fox31 had me confused. Lol telling us it was a full 24 event. . . Still a good push.
> 
> Anyhow, I look at it this way; I charge per push and charge what my accounts have accumulated. Drift or not. Pictures are worth 1000 words and working for free is silly.
> 
> View attachment 176862
> 
> 
> View attachment 176863
> 
> 
> View attachment 176864


I'm liking not worrying aboot snow and not getting up to check weather though I still kind of doo. I can actually enjoy winter on my terms.


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## A Hero Lawn Care

BUFF said:


> I'm liking not worrying aboot snow and not getting up to check weather though I still kind of doo. I can actually enjoy winter on my terms.


Yup I kind of miss that but I'm kind of in love with plowing. Yesterday was a heavy messy doozy. I didn't sleep. I expected the event to start from 7-9pm but didn't start until like 4-430 am... I was looking out my window more that a crack head lol

We were out from 7am to 1am the next morning
I'm am currently fighting my eyes from shutting.

I upped my biggest contract to a 68k sq ft site. LOTS of shoveling.

How are things on your end sir buff?


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## Mark Oomkes

This thread is still going???


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## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> This thread is still going???


lol


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> This thread is still going???


Until you get it shut down for being a wanker


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

lmao,

I need some SNOWWWWWWWWWW, almost 2 weeks with nothing.


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## Mr.Markus

You need to add salting services,
I've pretty much been out salting or sanding every day in this last 2 weeks. Including this morning, a little rain @/+5 on some snow covered rural drives starts the phone ringing...
January has been a good month...


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## jonniesmooth

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> I am also curious about this thread as I am now dealing with snow drifts and such, I live in a very windy area.
> 
> It would make sense to me if blowing snow does exceed my trigger clearing would be included as I am on seasonal contracts.
> 
> Would it be advisable to ask clients (residential or commercial) to notify me when blowing snow does exceed 5 cm for example on their property?
> 
> Or am I obliged to always be checking my sites, for blowing snow, trigger threshold, and icy patches, daily or every 2 -3 days? (I have been doing this)
> 
> If it doesn't snow for 1 - 2 weeks are you guys always checking your sites? Both Residential & Commerical?


I check my commercial accounts, and a couple special resi's every morning on my way to the shop, snow or not.
Several of them have downspouts that run to sidewalk, parking lots.
If the sun was out and melted snow on the roof, guess what? There's ice on the parking lot/ sidewalk.
Today is Saturday, and I'm not working, no check today.
We haven't had snow in about 2 weeks, if iy was good yesterday, nothing's changed.


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## Mr.Markus

Because of our altitude, I can never rely on the "nothings changed" approach. Warm days with a little rain draw the frost right out of through the pavement and more so the gravel lots.
+6 right now, here's my neighbors gravel drive way.


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