# In snow, the future is electric



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

https://www.sima.org/resource/libra...=Email marketing software&utm_term=LEARN MORE

When it comes to snow and ice equipment, there's always something new coming out in the industry. For some, new doesn't always mean better, but change is inevitable.

That's the dynamic manufacturers and end users find themselves in for several snow and ice management products, including the emergence of electric-powered spreaders.

"I think the main thing is inertia. People are used to gas," said Scott Moorman, Director of Engineering for Buyers Products Co., a plow and spreader manufacturer based in Mentor, Ohio. "Because of the early changes with the use of electric, I feel some people are hesitant from the past."









Some managers have shied from using electric spreaders due the misconception that they lack power. Although a gas motor holds more horsepower than electric (10.5 hp vs. 3.25 hp), Moorman believes electric is much more effective.

"People see that and think 'How does that even work?'" Moorman said. "(With a 3.25-hp electric motor), it's pulling 90 amps from the truck battery, and that's a lot over a protracted period of time. With the electric, you get this full torque at zero speed. In a gas engine, you can't do that. With the electric, you get all the torque all the time, so it's much more efficient for what you're doing."

Moorman ceded that gas spreaders don't need to use a truck battery but with a properly maintained vehicle, an electric device won't have trouble with a charging system.

"The nice thing is that it only draws a current when it needs it. It can draw 100 amps," he said. "If you're just cruising down the street with your spreader, you are only pulling 30 amps and that's not extreme." Opting for an electric spreader could provide a savings on fuel costs and offer less noise pollution if working with residential accounts. Plus, the technology is constantly advancing with manufacturers moving toward wireless operation.









Generally, the industry is catching up to the prospect of dealing in electric.

"You see this learning curve. It has been painful and there have been lessons learned. You're talking about a lot of high-current DC controllers, not an off the shelf thing," Moorman said. "Everyone worked with their vendors, and we stumbled along until the controllers were whipped into shape to get a pretty mature product now."

Despite its simple "plug and go" advantages, the electric spreader does not spell the end of the gas spreader; but Moorman said the writing is on the wall.
"It's asked every year. 'Is this the end of gas spreaders?' I don't know if it ever will be," Moorman said. "Some may choose gas as a preference, but the future is electric."


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

So they make electric spreaders now? Did this "Scott" guy invent that? How long does the extension cord running from the house have to be?


I dont know how it is elsewhere, but I can't give gas engine spreaders away anymore. I have a gas 4.5yd unit for $1200 less than the same brand electric and still no one will buy it


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

@smoorman

Axe him yourself.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> So they make electric spreaders now? Did this "Scott" guy invent that? How long does the extension cord running from the house have to be?
> 
> I dont know how it is elsewhere, but I can't give gas engine spreaders away anymore. I have a gas 4.5yd unit for $1200 less than the same brand electric and still no one will buy it


Sounds like the only thing behind is his assessment of times are changing...

I might be the only one heck who knows, but actually had all big three in service this year, Tornados, Boss VBX and a Salt Mutt... After running Icebreakers would never go back to gas...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> would never go back to gas...


Me neither...then again, I've never had a gas spreader.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

This statement below is pretty good up the "pretty mature product" comment. The controllers and modules still have room for improvement, a good place to start is use better components, increase the quality criteria and build in USA.

_*"You see this learning curve. It has been painful and there have been lessons learned. You're talking about a lot of high-current DC controllers, not an off the shelf thing," Moorman said. "Everyone worked with their vendors, and we stumbled along until the controllers were whipped into shape to get a pretty mature product now."*_


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

What is the issues that you had with the gas spreaders/ what is the reason that you would never run one?

That is all I ever ran and I would have a tough time finding something to complain about with them.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> What is the issues that you had with the gas spreaders/ what is the reason that you would never run one?
> 
> That is all I ever ran and I would have a tough time finding something to complain about with them.


Especially since you can swap a clutch in 15 minutes one handed.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Especially since you can swap a clutch in 15 minutes one handed.


While holding a beer with the free hand...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Especially since you can swap a clutch in 15 minutes one handed.


and anyway, was that me or Jarrett that could do that?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> and anyway, was that me or Jarrett that could do that?


I thought it was a team effort

Edit: Apparently you take 15 minutes to swap a motor. Jarrett was 5 minutes to swap a clutch. No word on how many hands were required.

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/random-thoughts-and-stories-thread.163154/page-709#post-2267931

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/random-thoughts-and-stories-thread.163154/page-710#post-2267944


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Especially since you can swap a clutch in 15 minutes one handed.


Darn it, beat me to it!


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> What is the issues that you had with the gas spreaders/ what is the reason that you would never run one?
> 
> That is all I ever ran and I would have a tough time finding something to complain about with them.


I would say the main issue always seemed to be corrosion on the engine. Throttle/choke linkage especially, but I also run into this same problem on my side walk machines too...

Obviously making sure they are running before leaving... A lot of my stuff, trucks could be out plowing for hours before actually salting so best to leave it run...

I think it's more of a convenience factor if anything. Guy in a truck might not have a clue on getting it running if it won't start again etc... Plus maybe carrying an extra gallon of gas along with you...

You have pwr cables running to your batteries anyway or an extra external battery...

I would say in general just an overall more dummy proof setup with electric...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> and anyway, was that me or Jarrett that could do that?





cwren2472 said:


> I thought it was a team effort
> 
> Edit: Apparently you take 15 minutes to swap a motor. Jarrett was 5 minutes to swap a clutch. No word on how many hands were required.
> 
> ...


What do I know..


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I would say the main issue always seemed to be corrosion on the engine. Throttle/choke linkage especially, but I also run into this same problem on my side walk machines too...
> 
> Obviously making sure they are running before leaving... A lot of my stuff, trucks could be out plowing for hours before actually salting so best to leave it run...
> 
> ...


I would agree if it didn't have modules and variable voltage controllers and what not. Seems like the build that type of garbage just to fail.

12v on/off I would not have a problem with.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I have a question...have they figured how absolutely asinine it is to solder a fuse into their controller???

Because if electric is truly the future, someone needs to get their cranial rectal inversion corrected on that issue.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I have a question...have they figured how absolutely asinine it is to solder a fuse into their controller???
> 
> Because if electric is truly the future, someone needs to get their cranial rectal inversion corrected on that issue.


I think that was one of those "lessons learned" during that "learning curve."

If only someone had known before then that fuses blow...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> I think that was one of those "lessons learned" during that "learning curve."
> 
> If only someone had known before then that fuses blow...


Might as well weld your oil filter onto the housing. Wheels to the hub.

I'm sorry, but that's got to be just about the dumbest thing I've seen...and living in Meatchicken, that's saying something.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Might as well weld your oil filter onto the housing. Wheels to the hub.
> 
> I'm sorry, but that's got to be just about the dumbest thing I've seen...and living in Meatchicken, that's saying something.


Well, in their defense, they did put a little sticker on the box that says "No user serviceable parts inside" so you weren't supposed to know...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Well, in their defense, they did put a little sticker on the box that says "No user serviceable parts inside" so you weren't supposed to know...


Not sure I would attempt to defend something so utterly asinine.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not sure I would attempt to defend something so utterly asinine.


It's in my job description as a salesman


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I have a question...have they figured how absolutely asinine it is to solder a fuse into their controller???
> 
> Because if electric is truly the future, someone needs to get their cranial rectal inversion corrected on that issue.


No worries you run them long enough they'll come out... This was a vibrator fuse holder in a Karrier controller running a 4yd Salt Mutt with their two 400lb vibrators that melted out...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> I would agree if it didn't have modules and variable voltage controllers and what not. Seems like the build that type of garbage just to fail.
> 
> 12v on/off I would not have a problem with.


No the controllers for sure were the main issues with Salt Mutts... From what I understand they thought everything needed more power and to be bigger then actually needed... Not sure if true or not but...

I assume Boss and Western just took the bigger controller to the outside and have them in or on their spreaders as they're controllers are paper thin..

But both my new Westerns and my one Boss worked flawless this year...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> No worries you run them long enough they'll come out... This was a vibrator fuse holder in a Karrier controller running a 4yd Salt Mutt with their two 400lb vibrators that melted out...
> 
> View attachment 192695


Geez, they solder a fuse in place, you guys whine, they DON'T solder the holder in place (adequately), you guys whine. There's just no pleasing some people.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

No fuses required:


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> No the controllers for sure were the main issues with Salt Mutts... From what I understand they thought *the pieces could be cheaper and flimsier* then actually needed...


Fixed it



Ajlawn1 said:


> I assume Boss and Western just took the bigger controller to the outside and have them in or on their spreaders as they're controllers are paper thin


That's it in a nutshell. The module handles the voltage regulation instead of inside the controller. That is also why the wiring going into the cab on the Boss and Western is tiny as compared to the battery cables that have to run in and out of the cab on the Buyers.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No fuses required:


Where do you connect the battery cables?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Where do you connect the battery cables?


Yes


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No fuses required:


I'm still not 100% convinced yet on that either I must have some gearing/PTO issues as we talked before seems like 1st gear and revved high to get a decent spread width etc...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I'm still not 100% convinced yet on that either I must have some gearing/PTO issues as we talked before seems like 1st gear and revved high to get a decent spread width etc...


Should be a tag on the PTO. From that you can figure out the ratio.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> Where do you connect the battery cables?


One to ground and other to the top of your head......


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## the Suburbanite (Jan 27, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> and anyway, was that me or Jarrett that could do that?


Speaking of JDG, has he posted since he went to get that truck?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Never had much trouble with gas besides being on the short side filling it with gas :laugh:. CH or pump clutch are the best IMO but have a electric Smith that done a okay job. Will be for sale come next winter kept it around for the church I did because they could not find nobody because I forgot about them and told them late in the summer I was done.

Still have a pump clutch unit but no one wanted it. Nobody wanted to up grade there truck for it, meaning mounting the pump under the hood etc.


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## chachi1984 (Feb 10, 2012)

My first 4 years we had an old hiway gas salter. It was older so I think most of my problems were because of age. A lot was todo with starting but near the end we got it worked out. Then it was just the other moving parts that were bad . 
Switch over to snowex and never looked back . Have two 7550 and a 8500. Both have been good the last 3 years . Has a few issues with the plugs and stuff . Die electric grease is your friend


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## to_buy (Dec 19, 2005)

How about the strain on the alternator and battery? I am a full time mechanic working on plows and salters in the winter, to me water and electric don't mix. Air flo did it years ago and it went over like a wet fart. it's snowing you have heater on, wipers on, stobes on, and you add the salter to the mix, HMMM. just my opinion


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## chachi1984 (Feb 10, 2012)

Our 3 salt and plow trucks , we put duel batteries and use and isolator. Plow hooked up to the main truck battery , the salters I run off the 2nd battery , been doing this for years and haven't had any issues



to_buy said:


> How about the strain on the alternator and battery? I am a full time mechanic working on plows and salters in the winter, to me water and electric don't mix. Air flo did it years ago and it went over like a wet fart. it's snowing you have heater on, wipers on, stobes on, and you add the salter to the mix, HMMM. just my opinion


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

to_buy said:


> How about the strain on the alternator and battery? I am a full time mechanic working on plows and salters in the winter, to me water and electric don't mix. Air flo did it years ago and it went over like a wet fart. it's snowing you have heater on, wipers on, stobes on, and you add the salter to the mix, HMMM. just my opinion


Don't forget all the brazilion computers running our trucks now.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Don't forget all the brazilion computers running our trucks now.


Is a brazilion computers anything like a brazilion wax..


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Is a brazilion computers anything like a brazilion wax..


Speaking of a Brazilian wax...


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Speaking of a Brazilian wax...


Nope


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Don't forget all the brazilion computers running our trucks now.


Ewe sound like lil George...


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Is a brazilion computers anything like a brazilion wax..


Not sure, but I know the brazilion steakhouse I went to last week was amazing


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Is a brazilion computers anything like a brazilion wax..


Eye woodn't no.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Speaking of a Brazilian wax...


Nevermind...


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## Thrifty Garage (Sep 20, 2019)

Ok, let's get this topic back on track. I've been using Electric SnowEx spreaders for the past 5 years overall they have been excellent. Not sure if it's just the quirks of SnowEx or just in-bed spreaders in generally but here are the issues/tips I can contribute:
- Don't leave full of bulk salt over night (especially if it is wet); salt will harden in one solid chunk as hard as a rock.
- I leave the cover off while plowing/salting unless it's snowing heavy. This makes for less work and faster re-fill times. Always put cover back on after plowing encase it snows. 
- Always test operation prior to filling up. Sometimes wiring or other issues will occur between storms and there is noting worse than hand shoveling 1.5 yards of salt.
- Vibrator is key to keeping salt fed to auger. 
- For legal reasons the spinner should be removed every time you leave a property.
- Do not overload. Weight limit is flush with top, not heaping full.

Here is the setup I was talking about:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Thrifty Garage said:


> - For legal reasons the spinner should be removed every time you leave a property.


Do tell. I'm waiting on pins and needles.

Unless of course you hire @Defcon 5 ...


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## Thrifty Garage (Sep 20, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do tell. I'm waiting on pins and needles.


Sorry, no crazy stories to tell, and to be honest generally I left mine in. But since it covers the license plate you may attract attention from the local LEO. We have a local road where commercial vehicles are permitted but highly discouraged. You will generally get pulled over for any possible reason. Covering the license plate is a quick way to see the red and blue lights!


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Could you move the plate to the spreader
and shine light on it?
This should meet any legal requirements if you keep it clear of snow.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Thrifty Garage said:


> Sorry, no crazy stories to tell, and to be honest generally I left mine in. But since it covers the license plate you may attract attention from the local LEO. We have a local road where commercial vehicles are permitted but highly discouraged. You will generally get pulled over for any possible reason. Covering the license plate is a quick way to see the red and blue lights!


My spinner chutes weigh a couple hundred pounds. I'm not taking them off once or ever. I dont have that much time or ambition even if it weighed less.


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## Thrifty Garage (Sep 20, 2019)

Hydromaster said:


> Could you move the plate to the spreader
> and shine light on it?
> This should meet any legal requirements if you keep it clear of snow.


Yes, that would be the responsible thing to do.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Shine it with a green light right?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Why wouldn’t you?


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

Cops don’t pull over plow guys here. They are usually busy with morons/accidents! We drive anything and everything on city roads and sidewalks legal or not plates or not. Professionally of course.

If my guys come back without a spinner they are getting pistol whipped and will be operating a push plow.

I herd some people add boards on their hopper to squeak another yard in? Is this true, will it be over weight/capacity?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cjames808 said:


> I herd some people add boards on their hopper to squeak another yard in? Is this true, will it be over weight/capacity?


The new guy would poop a brick if he saw our loads.

We don't even have covers for our spreaders.

I wasn't aware that salt would become a solid brick .


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do tell. I'm waiting on pins and needles.
> 
> Unless of course you hire @Defcon 5 ...


Real snow fighters carry multiple spinners...


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Does an under tailgate spreader spinner have to come off during transport?


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## Thrifty Garage (Sep 20, 2019)

to_buy said:


> How about the strain on the alternator and battery?


I've driven a 2015 Silverado 2500 with SnowEx Power Plow and In-Bed Salter. All connected to the factory battery. It was a bit much for the stock electrical system. The dash and radio display would flash and reset as if you turned off the truck and back on although the vehicle would run and drive as normal. I know it helps to outfit with the Plow Prep package which give a higher output alternator.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Thrifty Garage said:


> I've driven a 2015 Silverado 2500 with SnowEx Power Plow and In-Bed Salter. All connected to the factory battery. It was a bit much for the stock electrical system. The dash and radio display would flash and reset as if you turned off the truck and back on although the vehicle would run and drive as normal. I know it helps to outfit with the Plow Prep package which give a higher output alternator.


That has nothing to do with too much draw - search for "overvoltage"


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> That has nothing to do with too much draw - search for "overvoltage"


Is there a Tubeyou video?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Thrifty Garage said:


> The dash and radio display would flash and reset as if you turned off the truck and back on although the vehicle would run and drive as normal. I know it helps to outfit with the Plow Prep package which give a higher output alternator.





cwren2472 said:


> That has nothing to do with too much draw - search for "overvoltage"


Do tell...I'm waiting on pins and needles.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BUFF said:


> Is there a Tubeyou video?


Isn't there always?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do tell...I'm waiting on pins and needles.


You'll have to watch the TubeYou video.


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## Thrifty Garage (Sep 20, 2019)

m_ice said:


> Does an under tailgate spreader spinner have to come off during transport?


The way I understand the law in most states your plate needs to be visible. If your spinner covers your plate that is the issue. As mentioned by others simply relocating your plate with a light should be more than sufficient.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Thrifty Garage said:


> The way I understand the law in most states your plate needs to be visible. If your spinner covers your plate that is the issue. As mentioned by others simply relocating your plate with a light should be more than sufficient.


I wish I had read this sooner - I've been having to remove the spinner chain and unbolt the chute every time I left.

#themoreyouknow


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> I wish I had read this sooner - I've been having to remove the spinner chain and unbolt the chute every time I left.
> 
> #themoreyouknow


You guys need to use your heads more... Hello! Just slide the spreader over...


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You guys need to use your heads more... Hello! Just slide the spreader over...
> 
> View attachment 196260


File foto


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Genious, why didn't I think of that?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

DeVries said:


> Genious, why didn't I think of that?


If you tie it down right it thinks of it all on its own. Very interactive design...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> If you tie it down right it thinks of it all on its own. Very interactive design...


I know what happens if the straps used are too small...might even have a picture of it. I know Defcon does.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I know what happens if the straps used are too small...might even have a picture of it. I know Defcon does.


Maybe he uses small straps to hold his spinner on so he can remove it easily between sites???


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You guys need to use your heads more... Hello! Just slide the spreader over...
> 
> View attachment 196260


Well thats just stupid, I cant see his right turn signal.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Well thats just stupid, I cant see his right turn signal.


But can you see the licence plate now..?


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mr.Markus said:


> But can you see the licence plate now..?


And there's room on the driver side for your shovel so you don't have to walk around to the other side to get it...


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mr.Markus said:


> But can you see the licence plate now..?


And if he had a flatbed he could put dual v boxes on the truck!!!


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mr.Markus said:


> But can you see the licence plate now..?


I just tell the officer it must have fallen off, it works everytime.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You guys need to use your heads more... Hello! Just slide the spreader over...
> 
> View attachment 196260


He must have a small skidsteer and it wont reach to load it in the middle.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You guys need to use your heads more... Hello! Just slide the spreader over...
> 
> View attachment 196260


That pen there reflecting off the window, would drive me bananas!


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

BossPlow2010 said:


> That pen there reflecting off the window, would drive me bananas!


The dash is pretty clean compared to a few pics that have been posted.


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