# 120,000 SQ FT Lot how much to Bid?



## Flawless

I know these questions are everywere. Trying to find a good formula, push, salt seprate
I have never done open lots so i don't know how long or anything. I have done apt. complexs for years. I drive though them and say $300-$500 for 2-4 inch 4.1-6 inch $450-$800. Need a little help, if not i'll bull sh__ my way though it as always.

Thanks, Jason


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## badabing1512

first of all a picture would be nice. Now to determine the price you have to know your costs and what you want to make and you have your price. how much is salt per ton? how much salt per application? how many applications?where is the snow to be pushed? what equipment are you going to use to clear the snow? how is the contract, annually, per push or hourly? many factors, more info would be nice and well go from there, i know you dont want to hear it but do a search theres tons of threads on this stuff.


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## JohnnyRoyale

About a dollar a CuFt squared.


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## cretebaby

JohnnyRoyale;794837 said:


> About a dollar a CuFt squared.


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## Flawless

Flawless;794793 said:


> I know these questions are everywere. Trying to find a good formula, push, salt seprate
> I have never done open lots so i don't know how long or anything. I have done apt. complexs for years. I drive though them and say $300-$500 for 2-4 inch 4.1-6 inch $450-$800. Need a little help, if not i'll bull sh__ my way though it as always.
> 
> Thanks, Jason


i have seen .00002 per SQ Inch, i have seen .19 cents per 100 Sq FT, in this site, i do the math and i dosen't seem right. Looking for somthing better, pileing snow around light poles, no parking blocks,


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## cretebaby

Flawless;794841 said:


> i have seen .00002 per SQ Inch, ,


Was that my number? LOL


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## Flawless

cretebaby, yours was .00001 then Clapper & Company said "low baller" and came back with the .00002 per inch

So...... I take 120,000 x 12 inches = 1,440,000 inches x .00002 = 28.8 what the hell is that?


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## cet

1 sq foot is 144 sq". So you X by 144 not 12.


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## Burkartsplow

Oh man the clap is getting in the mix. You know he was featured in the SIMA magazine last year. I know him personally. So I got that going for me which is nice....


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## 2COR517

Burkartsplow;794914 said:


> So I got that going for me which is nice....


I love it.


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## Wayne Volz

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## Brant'sLawnCare

Flawless;794793 said:


> I know these questions are everywere. Trying to find a good formula, push, salt seprate
> I have never done open lots so i don't know how long or anything. I have done apt. complexs for years. I drive though them and say $300-$500 for 2-4 inch 4.1-6 inch $450-$800. Need a little help, if not i'll bull sh__ my way though it as always.
> 
> Thanks, Jason


Well that's roughly 3 acres. Around here that could go for around $300 per push, but that depends on who's bidding the job.


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## ptllandscapeIL

Im sorry,I dont know how the hell you can make money by pricing per sq ft,time and material,
pickups with 7.5-8ft blades-$85.00 per hour
dumps with salter and 9ft blade 120.00 ph
skids with protecs $150.00 ph
loader with protec-$200.00 ph
labor w/ 5hp blower $35.00 ph
just the way it has to be


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## cretebaby

ptllandscapeIL;795152 said:


> ,time and material,
> 
> just the way it has to be


Really? 

I suppose your not a big fan of seasonal price then either?


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## 2COR517

ptllandscapeIL;795152 said:


> Im sorry,I dont know how the hell you can make money by pricing per sq ft


If you know how long it takes to clear a given amount of square footage with a specific machine, what's the difference? If you're going hourly, there's no incentive to buy bigger/better/faster equipment, which allows you to take on more work, and make more money.


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## ptllandscapeIL

no, i will do seasonal contracts without salt,the way salt has been going, and the last 2 chicago winters.You can loose bad if you include salt


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## QuadPlower

ptllandscapeIL;795152 said:


> Im sorry,I dont know how the hell you can make money by pricing per sq ft,time and material,
> pickups with 7.5-8ft blades-$85.00 per hour
> dumps with salter and 9ft blade 120.00 ph
> skids with protecs $150.00 ph
> loader with protec-$200.00 ph
> labor w/ 5hp blower $35.00 ph
> just the way it has to be


You are right. (to a point). Everyone has to know their hourly prices like posted above. These numbers are figured out based on your overhead and the vehicles production rates.

You also have to know how long it would take to clear a lot of a certian size. Lets say that 1 acre takes you 1 hour with the 9' blade, 1.25 with the skids, etc. (these are just guesses) I figure this out by actually putting a stop watch on my truck and driving it like I would plowing. Same speed, stops, back up and do it again. I then take that time and multiply by the number of passes I will make to finish.

Once you know the hourly rate for each plow and the time it takes you to do it, you can do the math and give the customer a "per push" price instead of an hourly rate. This gives the customer a set rate so they can budget and it give you the advantage of finishing sooner and moving on to the next lot (or back to bed).

Once you have a season under your belt you can then adjust your production rates and costs so that you make money. Also, you have a real time number for plowing a certian square foot. Divide it out and you can figure out a sq. ft. price for next season. Then all you have to do is measure the parking lot and you will have the cost.


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## Wayne Volz

QuadPlower;795278 said:


> You are right. (to a point). Everyone has to know their hourly prices like posted above. These numbers are figured out based on your overhead and the vehicles production rates.
> 
> You also have to know how long it would take to clear a lot of a certain size. Lets say that 1 acre takes you 1 hour with the 9' blade, 1.25 with the skids, etc. (these are just guesses) I figure this out by actually putting a stop watch on my truck and driving it like I would plowing. Same speed, stops, back up and do it again. I then take that time and multiply by the number of passes I will make to finish.
> 
> Once you know the hourly rate for each plow and the time it takes you to do it, you can do the math and give the customer a "per push" price instead of an hourly rate. This gives the customer a set rate so they can budget and it give you the advantage of finishing sooner and moving on to the next lot (or back to bed).
> 
> Once you have a season under your belt you can then adjust your production rates and costs so that you make money. Also, you have a real time number for plowing a certian square foot. Divide it out and you can figure out a sq. ft. price for next season. Then all you have to do is measure the parking lot and you will have the cost.


Good answer quadplower. I am not agreeing just to agree, but I feel the same exact way. It's not wrong or right either way. It's what's best for your company. Many years ago we charged by the hour as well. As we got more efficient with our equipment, bigger and faster equipment we were leaving a lot of money on the table. We found that our customers liked knowing what the costs for our service were going to be before hand as well. If you do consider flat rate pricing, be sure to cover yourself in your contract with a maximum depth the flat rate covers in the case of a significant event in a short time period.


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## 2COR517

Isn't that what I said?


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

Do a search there is a TON of info. Just rough figure 1 truck will do 1 acre in 1 hour.


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## Longae29

2COR517;795194 said:


> If you know how long it takes to clear a given amount of square footage with a specific machine, what's the difference? If you're going hourly, there's no incentive to buy bigger/better/faster equipment, which allows you to take on more work, and make more money.


I couldnt agree more. I absolutely despise having to give a customer an hourly rate, I will avoid it at all costs, that is for me to know and them not to worry about. All you have to do is go through your logs from previous years and calculate your production with a specific truck/loader/skidsteer.


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## gureck233

What does per push mean? I see people writting that it's 300 per push.


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## cretebaby

gureck233;795534 said:


> What does per push mean? I see people writting that it's 300 per push.


Per each plowing.


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## ptllandscapeIL

ok,Well there has been alot of great help on this,few things clear I do have monthly contracts,and alot of my accounts are per push,so Im sorry if my last statement came off wrong in the end its what the going rate is in your area, it helps if you have you compition;s contracts also  hahaha


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## T-MAN

We usually do a combination of per push, per inch, and hourly wraped up into a seasonal contract. With salt priced by the ton, per bag, per application in a seasonal price as well. 
I have a cd rom available if your interested. It covers everything from what color shirt to wear on the day there might be a storm if you want it to snow, and what color shirt to wear if you dont want it to snow. We also have production numbers in millimeters !
The cd is only $127.95 or 2 for $3700.00
Let me know if I can help.











Sorry I couldnt resist.


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## cretebaby

T-MAN;795620 said:


> We usually do a combination of per push, per inch, and hourly wraped up into a seasonal contract. With salt priced by the ton, per bag, per application in a seasonal price as well.
> I have a cd rom available if your interested. It covers everything from what color shirt to wear on the day there might be a storm if you want it to snow, and what color shirt to wear if you dont want it to snow. We also have production numbers in millimeters !
> The cd is only $127.95 or 2 for $3700.00
> Let me know if I can help.
> Sorry I couldnt resist.


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## 2COR517

T-MAN;795620 said:


> We usually do a combination of per push, per inch, and hourly wraped up into a seasonal contract. With salt priced by the ton, per bag, per application in a seasonal price as well.
> I have a cd rom available if your interested. It covers everything from what color shirt to wear on the day there might be a storm if you want it to snow, and what color shirt to wear if you dont want it to snow. We also have production numbers in millimeters !
> The cd is only $127.95 or 2 for $3700.00
> Let me know if I can help.
> Sorry I couldnt resist.


Is that CD available on cassette? Actually 8 track would be best, but my son is pretty sharp and can convert it for me.


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## Superior L & L

T-MAN;795620 said:


> We usually do a combination of per push, per inch, and hourly wraped up into a seasonal contract. With salt priced by the ton, per bag, per application in a seasonal price as well.
> I have a cd rom available if your interested. It covers everything from what color shirt to wear on the day there might be a storm if you want it to snow, and what color shirt to wear if you dont want it to snow. We also have production numbers in millimeters !
> The cd is only $127.95 or 2 for $3700.00
> Let me know if I can help.
> 
> Sorry I couldnt resist.


Could i buy 4 cd's for $8000.00 i figure the more i buy the more money i will make


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## ford550

On our big stuff, it's per event (24hrs). In our per event is the breakdown every 2" up to 12". After that it's T&M. 
I saw someone say $300 for a push. A push of what? 2", 10", 24"?

You should break it down, Dont get caught pushing 12" for a 2" price, that's one good way to go bankrupt.


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## WIPensFan

I'd love to know how many guys on here actually turn a profit with the way they bid stuff.
They bid every thing so low just so they can say they have so many accounts, their so busy. 
3 acres for $300.00 - Why don't you just do it for free


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## cretebaby

WIPensFan;800421 said:


> I'd love to know how many guys on here actually turn a profit with the way they bid stuff.
> They bid every thing so low just so they can say they have so many accounts, their so busy.
> 3 acres for $300.00 - Why don't you just do it for free


Why don't you tell the guy how much then.


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## WIPensFan

Based on what? I don't even know anything about the lot. If it's an empty lot I wouldn't do it that cheap!


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## 2COR517

I've never actually measured my lots. Guess I should so I know what I'm making/acre. There just little school yards, so not very big. I think $100 an acre might be OK, depending on how many acres you had on that location. And how many inches per push.


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## cretebaby

2COR517;800501 said:


> I've never actually measured my lots. Guess I should so I know what I'm making/acre. There just little school yards, so not very big. I think $100 an acre might be OK, depending on how many acres you had on that location. And how many inches per push.


$100/acre for 2" would be a good bid. IMO


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## WIPensFan

Yea but what's on the acre? Lots of islands, cars, service garage doors you have to dink around with, parking barriers, how far do you have to carry snow and so on. That should make a difference on price.


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## cretebaby

WIPensFan;800516 said:


> Yea but what's on the acre? Lots of islands, cars, service garage doors you have to dink around with, parking barriers, how far do you have to carry snow and so on. That should make a difference on price.


Shouldn't make you any difference.


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## WIPensFan

You will be there longer so it should cost more. Plus you'll have to be more careful. When I have to be more careful my wallet gets bigger payup


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## cretebaby

WIPensFan;800537 said:


> You will be there longer so it should cost more. Plus you'll have to be more careful. When I have to be more careful my wallet gets bigger payup


You missed it, I said it wouldn't make YOU any difference because



WIPensFan;800431 said:


> If it's an empty lot I wouldn't do it that cheap!


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## WIPensFan

My bad! I'm getting slow in my old age, turned 40 on Aug 26. 

Sorry I ruined your joke on me


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## plowinginma

I bid all my parking lots by the square foot.. I have done it for this way for over 15 years... It took a while to design my own program.. probably the same thing they sell for big$$.. and people say it is crazy.. however .. everyone does it this way.. except most are just guessing.. If you look at one site that is 1/2 acre you have a price in mind.. if you look at a 2 acre site you have a price in mind.. of course there are variables blah blah.. the point is.. unless you are just guessing.. you should know exactly how much material you should use.. and how much time it will take you.. OK so here is the hint!!! if you take a lot that you are happy with the $$ you get, and do the math backwards you have your price per foot... WALA no need to spend any money for a program.. unless of course you don't like a calculator and math !! 

Just my .0019 cents worth...


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## terrapro

plowinginma;800568 said:


> Just my .0019 cents worth...


Not even 1/4 of a penny! Now that advice is really worthless. 

You need a starting point, say $!00 per acre(I would bid at $135per). Then calculate your acreage and muliply by $100, then take into consideration all obstacles and hazards and add whatever extra time it will take to your bid. Then come up with a depth amount like per 2-4 or 4-6 to cover you when the snow gets to deep.


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## 2COR517

cretebaby;800505 said:


> $100/acre for 2" would be a good bid. IMO


I'd take that money for 2" all winter long.


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## plowinginma

terrapro;800696 said:


> Not even 1/4 of a penny! Now that advice is really worthless.
> 
> You need a starting point, say $!00 per acre(I would bid at $135per). Then calculate your acreage and muliply by $100, then take into consideration all obstacles and hazards and add whatever extra time it will take to your bid. Then come up with a depth amount like per 2-4 or 4-6 to cover you when the snow gets to deep.


Normally I would never comment on ignorance or people that have no idea of what they are doing with out rhyme or reason...But since it is a full moon, and I am rather pissy today. I feel the small urge to vent..

I suppose I did not make myself 100% clear but since you did I will do the math for you..(you must not have a calculator or a program to quote out your parking lots, maybe you suck on a pipe and shoot something at a dart board)

You would charge $135 per acre for a depth of 2-4 " maybe 4-6" of course with consideration to obstacle's.. so if you took the common # which would be 4 inches of snow... and you knew how many square feet were in an acre (you can google it) your proposed # would be somewhere around .0007 ..compared with my price, looks like I make almost triple what you do..Of course we have great service and can actually tell the customer hard facts when they have questions..We are also in a market that demands such things.....I have a no excuse policy... no excuse why the property is not safe and clear of snow and ice.. Not once in my life have I had to explain myself...(Separates the Men from the boys )... I know that we have an audience for all of our properties that I service.. they (boys) sit in there trucks and watch us move and stack snow and wonder how we get such contracts..(maybe you are one of them)..

I am sure you make alot of money doing your driveways and your father In-laws local lunch hot spot. So good luck to you.. Other people that like to take a more mathematical approach to real contracts and methods on large scales of course would be very interested .....(People that actually only do snow removal and maintain property's during the winter months for a living, and take the summer to enjoy there family's and to get ready for the upcoming winter..)

So take no offense to my worthless information, advise or comment.. 
makes life easy when I get to bid against IGNORANCEwesport


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## terrapro

You said your advice was worth $.0019, I found it amusing. 

Good luck with you and yours


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## QuadPlower

terrapro;801264 said:


> You said your advice was worth $.0019, I found it amusing.
> 
> Good luck with you and yours


Terrapro wasn't knocking your math or how you figure out what to charge plowinginma. He, along with me, found the cost of your advice funny.

Most say "my 2 cents" or "my $.02". You would need 10.5 of your advice cost to equal someone elses advice cost. Quit low balling the value of your advice. You could charge alot more and people would still listen to you.


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## 2COR517

QuadPlower;801460 said:


> Terrapro wasn't knocking your math or how you figure out what to charge plowinginma. He, along with me, found the cost of your advice funny.
> 
> Most say "my 2 cents" or "my $.02". You would need 10.5 of your advice cost to equal someone elses advice cost. Quit low balling the value of your advice. You could charge alot more and people would still listen to you.


Or - You could charge alot more and people still wouldn't listen to you.


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## FaulknerLwnCare

Im on the same page as Brant open lots i always base them on being able to plow an acre an hour and always make money on them. Charge between 100-125 an hour . So your looking at 300 to 375 per push


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## Flawless

Just wanted to say thnks to everyone, been helpful
What i came up with is $100 acre 2-4 inch
4-8 inch increase price by 40%
$.50 per pound on salt
Didn't end up with any big one'e guys were underbiding $100 per acre on 40 acre lots
I guess i'll stick to what i know
Still waiting for our first event here in Columbus Ohio, were ready- tree work still steady


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