# Price to haul snow



## Frosty123

What should I charge to haul mounds of snow from a Wal-Mart parking lot and dump them in an adjacent lot? We had about 14 inches of snow and the lot is about 5 acres. It would be about 60+ triaxle loads. I may only need a large loader (rental) but it will take a long time.


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## forestfireguy

Hrs for machine at whatever your rate is, then figure out cycle time for a load-dump-back to loading position for your tri-axle, probably want to run 2 trucks if it's close, more and you'll be paying to have trucks sitting. Figure hours for ach truck and add loader time, there's your price. If the tri-axles don't have heated bodies you will have sticking snow in the body taking up space, thus not moving as much as you plan to....something to think about.


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## Westhardt Corp.

Strictly per hour, per piece of equipment (T&M) and estimate in 8-hour "blocks" for comparison's sake (a lot of relocation is quoted based on an 8 hour day, even though very few actually work only 8 hours) If it's an "on-site" relocation with little driving (<2 miles round trip) then I shoot for $100/hr/truck (we use "short" semis here, 30-40 yd) and whatever your loader rate is (we typically get $125-150/hr for 3 yd on-site relo--a bit lower than plowing, but generally more hours and less fuel)

As FFG stated, estimate your "round" time, and shoot for enough trucks to get it done without having any waiting in line at any point. My rule of thumb is "the fewer the trucks, the better". Drivers like getting the hours, and the customer will perceive the constant motion as more efficient than if you have trucks waiting to get loaded. (Now, the _reality_ is that it doesn't really matter how many trucks or loaders you have--hours are hours. More equipment does not equal more cost, it just means less ultimate time required to get it done. You just have to make sure the equipment does not go idle, and you'll be fine.)

As far as sticking, it's pretty much part of the game. The best advice I can offer is to use trucks with liners, and make sure they are not kept in a heated garage. The warm bed will actually _cause _sticking from the softening of the snow on the bottom, and the subsequent moisture that will develop from it--wet snow sticks more than dry snow. You could also spray the beds with liquid cal (straight), and let it dry before loading, but it will melt the snow somewhat and can cause the same problems. We generally use "cold" trailers with liners, and the "like temperature" versus the snow usually doesn't stick too much--just slam the gate and it pops right out (the liners help significantly with this)

Last thing, and I cannot stress this enough. Having done a good amount of this type of work, I can tell you without question that you MUST ensure that the customer (not the store manager or anyone else who is not directly involved with the contract) is informed, understands and agrees to the charges they will incur for a relocation project. Sticker shock is extremely common with this, and it can turn ugly real quick--so estimate, confer and confirm (in writing) before even starting the equipment. This can be tricky, because many times a customer will want it done "now", but stand your ground and take the appropriate steps to avoid a catastrophic billing issue down the road. If it's a new customer, I would advise is requiring a percentage of the estimate up front. They may balk, but when you look at the cost of this, think "can I afford to eat it?" I've never heard of the "First Federal Bank of Frosty".

HTH, and good luck!

Trent...


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## Westhardt Corp.

Food for thought, if that 5 acre lot has 14" of snow on it, then you're looking at at least _9,400_ yards of snow.

5 acres x 43,560 sq ft/acre = 217,800 sq ft 
217,800 x 1.167 (14", converted to feet) = 254,172.6 cu ft
254,172.6 / 27 (cu ft/yard) = *9,413.8 cubic yards*
9414 / *30 yards/truck (if a tri can fit that) = 314 loads of snow*
9414 / *3 yard bucket = 3,138 buckets*
9414 / *5 yard bucket = 1,883 buckets*

It's going to _very_ expensive.


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## U1200

Trent's advise is spot on especially with the sticker shock part! I was in charge of a snow hauling operation at a large office park. We had two wheel loaders, 10 dump trucks, seven skid steers piling it up for the wheel loaders, and for a while I ran a 963C at the dump site. It was running over $2000/hr to haul it and I continually made damn sure with the company owner and property manager that they knew what this was costing them. Another hauling operation across town just went to work and the property manager was unaware of what they were doing and the cost. We'll be lucky to get paid half of what work was done.

Another important point I feel is worth mentioning is the dump site. Unless it's a huge paved lot be prepared to have a machine or two there to pile the snow after it's dumped. We were dumping on unpaved lots which detiorate to mud quickly unless very frozen. Having a track loader (Cat 953, 963,973 or equivalent) was the only way to keep the trucks rolling. I had to push or pull several out of the mud. They'll insist on trying to back 100ft into a mud/snow field and dump. So anyway be sure the dump site is good to go as that can bottleneck the operation quickly.


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## Westhardt Corp.

Oh, stop with the dump site BS. The property manager's empty pickup drove in and out of there with no problems...

:laughing:

(thanks for the compliments!)


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## Frosty123

*Thank you!*

Thank you for all of the advice. All of this is really good information and really helps out. Thank you for your time!


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## Luther

Westhardt Corp.;991436 said:


> Last thing, and I cannot stress this enough. Having done a good amount of this type of work, I can tell you without question that you MUST ensure that the customer (not the store manager or anyone else who is not directly involved with the contract) is informed, understands and agrees to the charges they will incur for a relocation project. Sticker shock is extremely common with this, and it can turn ugly real quick--so estimate, confer and confirm (in writing) before even starting the equipment. This can be tricky, because many times a customer will want it done "now", but stand your ground and take the appropriate steps to avoid a catastrophic billing issue down the road. If it's a new customer, I would advise is requiring a percentage of the estimate up front. They may balk, but when you look at the cost of this, think "can I afford to eat it?" I've never heard of the "First Federal Bank of Frosty".
> 
> HTH, and good luck!
> 
> Trent...


Other than your ability to get this job done, this will be your biggest concern. I'll go out on a limb and guess USM is requesting this. There's no way a West Virginia Walmart has this budgeted......

You'd better have all of this approved and signed before you start......or we can count on you coming back to tell us all about the horror story.

Good luck to you sir.


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## forestfireguy

I did forget the sticker shock thing.......VERY IMPORTANT.


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## DaySpring Services

I've always wondered for you guys that haul snow where do you dump? It it your property, the trucking company or the clients property?


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## ferdinand711

Frosty123;991190 said:


> What should I charge to haul mounds of snow from a Wal-Mart parking lot and dump them in an adjacent lot? We had about 14 inches of snow and the lot is about 5 acres. It would be about 60+ triaxle loads. I may only need a large loader (rental) but it will take a long time.


Should you have that figured that out and included in your contract?


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## U1200

DaySpring Services;991959 said:


> I've always wondered for you guys that haul snow where do you dump? It it your property, the trucking company or the clients property?


In most cases that I've done it, the snow has been hauled to other property that the client had. The office/industrial park I mentioned earlier had about 80 acres of land that was as yet undeveloped so we took it there. A large hospital that I was hauling off of had bought some adjoining property and demoed the houses so we used that lot.

Be sure you make it clear that you're not having to pay for any grading and reseeding of any grass that gets torn up or killed from salt on these lots. I went by the hospital dump lot where I was again having to use the 963 and it will need a box blade and seed come spring!


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## 04chevy2500

lots of good advice here. iv ran into the problem with the dump site many times with the mud. this year, other than the lack of snow, has been good. we got a nice hard freeze at the beginning of the season and we have not gotten stuck once this year. we haul from one of our sites after every storm. the customer was required to do this by the environmental board so they understand the contract and wev been doing it there for many years. we have a backhoe loading and almost every storm the first loads seem to get stuck. this makes it very handy to have the ability to use the hoe to claw it out. but the trucks have to haul half the load twice.


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## Westhardt Corp.

I haven't taken pictures or video of our removals, but I will make sure to get some on the next one and show you the liner advantage.


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## VEGGIEPLOW

TCLA;991808 said:


> Other than your ability to get this job done, this will be your biggest concern. I'll go out on a limb and guess USM is requesting this. There's no way a *West Virginia Walmart has this budgeted......*
> 
> You'd better have all of this approved and signed before you start......or we can count on you coming back to tell us all about the horror story.
> 
> Good luck to you sir.


actually, we bring in all them there kin folk... sit in the bucket of one of them there coal truck loaders and git lifted to the top of that there mound o sno.... and we take uncle jeffs 69 volkswaggen bettle hood and go a slidding away..... my sister/girlfriend and i is gonna do it tonight... slay ridn that is:laughing:


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## VEGGIEPLOW

and btw TCLA.. hows coach rodriguez working out for the big blue? but the allum regrets that decision... bawhaaaaaa:laughing:


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## Luther

VEGGIEPLOW;992657 said:


> and btw TCLA.. hows coach rodriguez working out for the big blue? but the allum regrets that decision... bawhaaaaaa:laughing:


Yeah.......he's not a winner here.


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## CMU07

He wasnt a big winner right away at WV either.


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## pelt35

When I used to haul snow at night for the city, we used to spray the boxes lightly with diesel fuel . The inside of the box would get so slippery that the snow would shoot out before the box was all the way up. Once a night was usually all that was needed. Not real environmentaly friendly but we didn't use much.


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## Westhardt Corp.

That's an old asphalt trick, and it works!

Don't eat yellow snow...


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## Rat_Power_78

Used antifreeze works extremely well also, though like diesel its not the most environmentally friendly. Usually one time spraying and you are good to go.


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## Hokiepoke

Has anyone come across Flat Cubic Yard Hauling Rates in there contract, not hourly? 

I know this has to do with where you are dumping, but if it is close to the site...?

Has anyone signed a contract like this and what ranges have anyone seen for this bid out recently if you are someone like me, where we normally do not see a lot of snow in a year and do not have a see things priced out like this in a contract?? 

Please help....


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## Westhardt Corp.

Honestly? That sounds like a recipe for a major billing dispute. It's hard enough to accuratly (in the client's eyes) quantify & justify time, which is easy to track. But you're talking a whole new level of complicated when you try to bill by volume, because then you must be able to prove that you hauled a specific unit of measure in a specific quantity. Not something I would recommend, because then you're going to be counting buckets, and only after carefully leveling them off to achieve a desired quantity in each bucket. Not easy, and very time consuming. It's akin to doing per-push based on how many inches have fallen, and then having to prove.

For comparison, it's tough enough to do this when selling salt per yard, and salt is much easier to "level off" than snow. Plus, you're generally not in the same hurry to load salt as you are to relocate snow. Why? Because with relocation, chances are you'll be working against a time constraint to get it done before the client's patrons/employees/etc arrive. So why not bill accordingly?

Sorry if this is too much information, but the bottom line is that nobody I have ever seen or known of has built removal into a contract by volume. And we, too, bill removal one way and one way only--per hour, per piece of equipment.

HTH, and good luck!


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## Hokiepoke

*Cubic Yard Hauling Flat Rates*

Thanks Westhart Corp. I agree recipe for problems, that's why I'm hoping someone has come across it.

Normally we do not see that much snow around here to even have to consider hauling an issue, but fortunately it did this year with all the snow we have seen! Now I suppose to plug in a cubic yard hauled number that I'm not uncomfortable with.

Anyone else seen this or had any experience with an on-site cubic yard hauling flat figure or even off-site flat cubic yard figure(although there is a lot more variables to consider in this number I understand), not hourly?

Thanks for any help.


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