# Right equipment for our property?



## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

First off - Hey!

I am completely new to this. Basic background is that we have a family business - 50 unit apartment complex with approx 85 parking spots split into two lots (front & back). My brother, cousin @ I do alot of the property maintenance, but we do have a "live in manager" who also does maintenance. 

I realize that plowing is not that easy, and does take knowledge and the proper equipment. We are looking for a plow set up. # 1. to save on the yearly expense, and # 2 adding a truck to the property for the obvious benefits that a truck provides year round. The idea is that the property manager (has no experience) will plow the lot. He can take his time, go slow and do it right. There is no rush to hurry and go from account to account.

I have looked at the Fisher HT's & BOSS (not sure the model) straight blades. I would like to go new on the blade & spreader to avoid trying to find the exact match for a truck, and the wear & tear on a used blade. I think that is the right way to go?

The blade is the "easy" part. We do not yet have a truck. I have asked around (plow dealers) and someone who plows, and they pretty much say a 1/2 ton truck shoud be fine for our use. Is this true? (ideal would be 3/4 to 1 ton) Again - this will only plow this property & maybe family's drive ways if we really get hit hard here in Detroit. I have been looking thru the local Craigs list (dealers since we want to finance). We are not looking for a "plow truck". Do not want someone elses problems! 

I'd like to find a truck that has been used as someones daily driver. We are looking for a truck with 100,000 to 125,000 miles. 4 x 4. Is there anything else I shoud look for/stay away from? Been told to stay away from new model Ford's due to power steering issues - but based on our price range shouldnt be an issue. Hopefully between $6,000 to $9,000. 

I know everyone has a brand preference, but I have seen more F 150's and GMC's. Very few Dodges. Besides preference, is there any real difference in truck (again based on my use)? Should I be concerned with a truck with much more then 125,000 miles? I see alot of trucks with 175,000 miles? (If we dont use the truck much for "personal use" - dont expect to put more then 2/3,000 miles a year. 

Oh, and I would say right now - we are leaning towards a 1/2 ton F 150 - Would we need to beef up the front end? We also are looking into a trialer hitch salt spreader and we do have a relative who is a good mechanic (always great to have on of those in the family!)
Am I on the right track? Are we getting into something more then we expect? 

Any suggestions/comments would greatly be apprecaited!


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## coyote (Jan 6, 2011)

I really dont think the brand pf pickup matters but would strongly recommend 3/4 ton


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## bbct001 (Jul 20, 2011)

Half ton would probably be fine for plowing, but if your putting a hopper in the bed, you'll want at least a 3/4 ton.


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## superdog1 (Oct 13, 2011)

bbct001;1343118 said:


> Half ton would probably be fine for plowing, but if your putting a hopper in the bed, you'll want at least a 3/4 ton.


I agree to some extent? 3/4 and full ton PU's have heavier suspensions (obviously) and in some cases, heavier drive lines, thicker axles etc. When you plow with a truck, it has stresses and strains on the entire thing, not just the weight of the plow. IMHO, I would never plow with anything less than a 3/4 ton. When the plow is on the ground, all the truck is doing is pushing the weight of the plow and the snow in front of it. This is where the heavier frame, transmission and other drive line components come into play.

While I am NOT an expert, I do know that some 1/2 ton trucks have lighter frames than the 3/4 ton and up units do. Since the frame takes all of the abuse, it would be important to have the heaviest one you can get. While all you are doing is plowing at an apartment complex you own, it is still wear and tear on the truck, and the last thing you want to happen is the truck breaking down and you having to find someone at the last minute to plow your lot. You will then have double the expense that you did before, Lol.

The other thing is plows that are made to fit on 1/2 ton trucks tend to be lighter. They do this because the front GVWR on most 1/2 ton trucks is low, so they have to keep the weight of the plow down to keep it legal. This translates into lighter steel, thinner gauge metal on the moldboard etc. I have seen what employees can do to a plow and truck. Most of them have this "What the heck, it's not my truck" attitude, so the harder you make it for them to break, the better off you are.

This is just my opinion after years of fixing plows, fork lifts, tractors and other heavy machinery. There used to a Fram commercial that said "You can pay me now, or pay me later", you will save yourself quite a few $$ down the road if you buy the heaviest thing you can afford.Thumbs Up


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

Well I think I am close to a new truck. Hope to get a GMC 2500. Anyhow - since this truck will only be used for our property and not charging customers- what added insurance will we need? I will ask our insurance agent this question on Monday but am curious?

Thx


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Should be covered with all your other maintenance you do.


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## skimastr105 (Aug 18, 2009)

The old body style gmc and chevby trucks tend to be fairly bulletproof. 3/4 ton + would be much better. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a truck with miles... Its all about how. It's been maintained. My 93 gmc has 210,000 and is still going strong! It's been a plow truck since day 1.


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

ok - I have been reading as much as I can this last week or so, and have spoken to a few plow dealers. Of course I have received many opinions. I have narrowed it down to two trucks. Hopefully we will drive off with one this Friday. Choices: 

#1 - 2001 GMC K1500 - 93,000 $10,000
#2 - 2003 GMC K2500 - 83,000 $15,000

Both trucks are VERY clean, and look well maintained. Test drove both. Both seem to run very good (1500 has all te maintenance records)

I plan on getting a SnowEx SP-325 tailgate spreader. As for the plow - Thats where it gets tough. Of course the 2500 will fit just about every plow that Fisher & Boss offer. I am looking for a straight blade. No V. For the 1500 - Fisher's eMATCH says the HT, SD & HD series 7'6'' will all fit. Boss says the 7'6' Standard duty straight blade will only fit (dont want poly). What should I do? Based on our needs (50 unit apartment building with 2 seperate parking lots- front/back). I think either truck will do, but I am still unsure. I keep leaning towards the Fisher HT series with its "trip Edge", but also like the BOSS plows. My biggest fear is getting something and it not being enough? SHould I be scared of the 1500? or will it do the job with ease along with a $5,000 savings (covers most of the cost of plow & spreader)? 

I appreciate everyones help!

ps - found a local Landscape dealer that has 50# bags of salt for $224/pallet (56 bags). Is that a good deal? I am guessing we will need up to 10 bags per event? (of course based on conditions)


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Go with the 2500 and get a Boss v plow ,this way you can scoop snow to different locations.Salt price is good.


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

ok - So by a 2 to 1 vote we picked up the 2001 Sierra 1500 (K1500/Model K15753). I realize the 2500 would of given us a little wiggle room, but I think for our needs, this should do the job well. 

Per the "plow selectors" I can mount ( all 7'6") a BOSS Standard Duty, Fisher HT, SD or HD. So my question is - Which one? 

Fisher HT - Seems like the obvious choice? I like the Fisher HT "trip edge" but not sure if there is any benefit since we will only be useing it in our parking lot, with no obstructions other then the curbs in the islands (260# ballast). 

Fisher SD - Not sure if I like the "polymer" cutting edge. Have also read it is expensive to replace.


Fisher HD. Seems like the most "beefy" of the bunch. Says I need 450# of ballast (would that be an issue?) Dont know much about the "chain lift" system. 


BOSS Standard Duty - I must admit I do like the BOSS plow with no other reason other then it looks cool Thumbs Up and I am a sucker for things "made in MI". Also that fact that BOSS looks to be a very good plow all around. 

I will be picking up the truck Monday, so I hope to have the truck in within the week for install - Your help and opinion is greatly appreciated!


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## pohouse (Jan 26, 2009)

You'll be fine with the Sierra 1500. I have an 03 and plow several parking lots. Whichever plow you choose, I would recommend cranking up the torsion bars and adding a leaf to the rear springs to help carry the tailgate spreader.

As far as plows, dealer support can be a factor. Will they be open during a storm, for example? 

It might be good to think about what you would do if the truck broke down midstorm. Get some names of local contractors who perform service in your neighborhood, just in case.

All the best.:salute:


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks Pohouse. I have read alot about Timbrens - How might these come into play? I am guessing I might need these. Should I also "crank up" the torsion bars along with the Timbrens? Also - depending on the plow - will most likely need 260 to nearly 400 lbs of ballast. Can I reduce this if I have a TGS (looking at the snowex 325 or BOSS 600)? 

Oh, and one final question (for now) - should I have the plow installer do the added suspension stuff or should I go to a tire/suspension shop (locally belletire)?


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

Stoped by a local BOSS dealer. Though the configurater does not say a Super Duty will fit my truck, he said it should not be an issue and he has installed a few on 1/2 ton trucks this season so far. Would I be asking for trouble if I went that route?


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

2500 with a Western Wideout if you're doing lots. You'll cut your plowing time in half.


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## pohouse (Jan 26, 2009)

Chandlerarms;1357684 said:


> Thanks Pohouse. I have read alot about Timbrens - How might these come into play? I am guessing I might need these. Should I also "crank up" the torsion bars along with the Timbrens? Also - depending on the plow - will most likely need 260 to nearly 400 lbs of ballast. Can I reduce this if I have a TGS (looking at the snowex 325 or BOSS 600)?
> 
> Oh, and one final question (for now) - should I have the plow installer do the added suspension stuff or should I go to a tire/suspension shop (locally belletire)?


Both things, cranking up the torsions and timbrens accomplish the same goal. To reduce front end sag when you lift the plow. If your front end sags, with the weight of the plow in the up position, it can be difficult to push snow over curbs. Cranking up the torsions will increase the height of the trunk's front end. It will not increase the amount of weight your front axle can carry.

Timbrens are rubber bump stops that replace the factory stops on the lower control arms. The timbren bump stops are larger and firmer, which means the suspension will 'bottom out' sooner, or higher than factory bump stops and will reduce the sag. Cranking up torsions or using timbrens will NOT increase the amount of weight your front axle can carry. They are just ways to reduce front end sag.

I recommend cranking up the torsions at a suspension shop, since an alignment will be required afterward. A suspension professional can help you decide how much the bars can be cranked up, based on where they are set right now. Then get the truck upfitted with the plow and see how much sag you have. With your plow selections, I don't think you will require timbrens, but they can always be added. Your plow dealer probably can install timbrens. They are very easy to install on OBS GMCs maybe 30 min. Both are good, but you may notice a stiffer ride up front during the off season. Work truck, probably not a big factor.

Your full TGS will work perfect as ballast. You'll probably have bags of deicer in the box also. Sounds like you can easily reload on the property when you get low. Ballast offsets some of the weight of the plow and adds traction to your rear axle. You'll notice a remarkable difference in your ability to move snow with ballast vs. without ballast.


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

This might be a silly question, but is there anything I can do to increase the load capacity of the bed? I am hopeing to purchase bag salt - and the best deal is if I purchase by the pallet. The pallet is 2800 lbs, but per the "specs" I found on line - The payload capacity max is 1624 lbs. I really hate to go back and forth to pick up the salt.


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## SIWEL (Dec 5, 2008)

buy a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. You wanted a half ton, thats what they can carry, thats it.

Don't forget to count the weight of the plow and spreader into that payload capacity also.


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## pohouse (Jan 26, 2009)

Chandlerarms;1358564 said:


> This might be a silly question, but is there anything I can do to increase the load capacity of the bed? I am hopeing to purchase bag salt - and the best deal is if I purchase by the pallet. The pallet is 2800 lbs, but per the "specs" I found on line - The payload capacity max is 1624 lbs. I really hate to go back and forth to pick up the salt.


If your talking about the yearly purchase of a pallet, have it delivered. Or rent a single axle trailer to get the pallet to the property and restack where you want it. There are ways to do it, but using the 1/2 ton to carry the pallet is not an option.


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I know I might be asking for the best of both worlds. We will have a pallet delivered and order pallets as needed. Not sure how much we might need. My current guess based on what I have read is that I might need 5 to 8 bags per event and conditions. We will be paying 4.99 per 20 kg bag delivered. That is not bad considering it's Canadian dollar, and everything in Canada is more. We try to get most things back home in Detroit (50 lb bag pallet is 4.00USD) but I guess in this instance it's still acceptable.

I pick up the truck tomorrow. Next step is to make the final FINAL decision on the plow. Either BOSS standard duty or the Fisher HT. I think I will be happy with either one. I will make one more call to a few dealers to see who has a plow, when we can get it installed and who I think will offer the best on going support. Right now there is a Boss dealer 10 min away from where I live and very close to the Detroit/Windsor tunnel so that is also a plus.

I appreciate everyone comments. This has been a very stressful task trying to make the best decisions possible. I am sure with all the help I get from this site, this new plow will make our property that much more pleasant to live at. www.chandlerarms.ca


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## tsnap (Oct 8, 2011)

I plowed with a chevy 1500 last year and i loved it. I would definately suggest adding the timbrens. Definately will help carry the weight of the plow. I would tend to bottom out the bracket on steep approaches to drives when carrying the plow. I agree that picking the entire pallet in that truck is not reccommended. I did it with mine however i only had to transport ess than 1 mile from where i was picking up. I ran a meyers plow last year and hated it. Ran fishers before and they were ok. I had the oppertunity to use a boss last year, and i ended up buying a boss v this year for my new truck i liked it so much. In the end it's all up to you. Whatever you choose will be good but these are just my opinion. I am also in the detroit area, if you have any more questions give me a call. 248-579-3406 Tony


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

Added Timbrens to my 1500 backend. Then it nolonger sank down with heavy loads. To bad the back axel/ bearings did not like it. Get a 3/4 or 1 ton.


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

tsnap;1359727 said:


> I plowed with a chevy 1500 last year and i loved it. I would definately suggest adding the timbrens. Definately will help carry the weight of the plow. I would tend to bottom out the bracket on steep approaches to drives when carrying the plow. I agree that picking the entire pallet in that truck is not reccommended. I did it with mine however i only had to transport ess than 1 mile from where i was picking up. I ran a meyers plow last year and hated it. Ran fishers before and they were ok. I had the oppertunity to use a boss last year, and i ended up buying a boss v this year for my new truck i liked it so much. In the end it's all up to you. Whatever you choose will be good but these are just my opinion. I am also in the detroit area, if you have any more questions give me a call. 248-579-3406 Tony


Thanks tsnap. I guess a question I have right now, is which dealers have you worked with? Any real good ones or and real BAD ones? I have spoken to a few including some in your area. Not sure if its ok to talk about dealers directly in threads so if you could PM me - I'd apprecaite it!


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## pictureitgreen (Nov 30, 2011)

*1/2 ton*

As long as you have smaller parking lots you will be fine in a half ton truck i ran a 1999 f150 for the first 3 years i was in business with about 17 accounts a night 8 of them apartments but if your doing over a 200 foot stretch i would say go with a 3/4 i would say stick with a ford or chevy for plowing due to the weak transmissions and transfer cases on the dodges 


Chandlerarms;1342176 said:


> First off - Hey!
> 
> I am completely new to this. Basic background is that we have a family business - 50 unit apartment complex with approx 85 parking spots split into two lots (front & back). My brother, cousin @ I do alot of the property maintenance, but we do have a "live in manager" who also does maintenance.
> 
> ...


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

based on the feedback from members of this site and dealers (along with my brother & uncle who are partners) we went with a 2001 Silverado. It's a 1500. I do realize that a 3/4 ton is the obvious ideal truck, but I am sure it will serve us well. It's a used truck and will take some abuse plowing, along with all the things that go wrong with a 10 year old truck. but I am confident we will treat it well. It looks to be a great truck with only 90,000 miles. Not used as a work truck and the dealer had all the maintenance records. it's going to sit at the property and only plow the parking lot. We went with the BOSS Super duty, so it can grow with the truck if needed. The whole idea for this purchase was to lower our cost for slow removal. Last season alone we spent nearly $12,000 for snow removal and salt. Based on this season snow fall, we can recover our initial cost in less then 2 seasons-maybe 3. 

Our annual maintenance cost will be insurance ($950), maintenance (guess less then $1,000?), oil change (will exceed months vs. Miles- every 4 months?), washes (remove salt). Am I missing anything else?


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Transmissions, wheel bearings, steering linkage, brake pads, brake rotors, front shocks when you bottom out hard, Timbrens (at least one time around for $200), etc....


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

Yeah, I get your point. We will deal with issues as I am sure there will be as they come up. Luckly we have a relative who has a small shop. He works mosty on Crown Vic taxies but he is a decent mechanic for breaks, barings front end - stuff like that.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Chandlerarms;1363641 said:


> Yeah, I get your point. We will deal with issues as I am sure there will be as they come up. Luckly we have a relative who has a small shop. He works mosty on Crown Vic taxies but he is a decent mechanic for breaks, barings front end - stuff like that.


Keep the plow down as much as possible, go slow, try not to turn with a load on the blade and use low range.


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## ryde307 (Dec 3, 2009)

I think many are over thinking this. In a world of commercial plowing yes I would not buy a 1500. For what you are trying to do this is a small lot simle stress to the vehicle the same person will do I would much rather have a 1500 for that. You made the right choice in my mind.


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks ryde307. Unfortunately I over think just about everything I do! it can be an irritating trait! But I am confident this set up will work out! Oh, and about that over thing thing....I went in today to a dealer planning on walking out with a SnowEx 325 - I walked out of there with a 575! The 325 just looked too small. I'd rather have a little extra room vs. Reloading 1 more bag to finish the job! 

Patiently waiting for the call on my plow.


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

This might be a stupid question but how do you get a 2 x12 into the slots in the bed near the wheel wells? I measured and cut the board to 65.5 inches. But now I cannot slide the board in. The top of the cab has a lip so for the life of me I cannot get the piece in. Do I need to cut it in half and and a piece of wood bedind it or do I near a few separate 2x4s and stack them?


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## Joe Blade (Jul 26, 2011)

*1500 to lite?*



Chandlerarms;1358564 said:


> This might be a silly question, but is there anything I can do to increase the load capacity of the bed? I am hopeing to purchase bag salt - and the best deal is if I purchase by the pallet. The pallet is 2800 lbs, but per the "specs" I found on line - The payload capacity max is 1624 lbs. I really hate to go back and forth to pick up the salt.


Couple things you stiffen up the rear of the truck with an extra leaf spring but then you screw up your ride comfort the other nice option are chargeable rear airbags that you can buy and install yourself I will try to find you a link. They increase your rear weight capacity big time.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Chandlerarms;1366509 said:


> This might be a stupid question but how do you get a 2 x12 into the slots in the bed near the wheel wells? I measured and cut the board to 65.5 inches. But now I cannot slide the board in. The top of the cab has a lip so for the life of me I cannot get the piece in. Do I need to cut it in half and and a piece of wood bedind it or do I near a few separate 2x4s and stack them?


A 2x12 might be a bit wide. I usually use 2x6's start them diagonally in the bed and rotate it to square once below the edge of the bed.


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## pictureitgreen (Nov 30, 2011)

I bought salt by the bag last year i put a pallet of 57 50lbs bags in the back of my 99 f150 which is 2,850 yes it was over loaded but it took it like a champ i traveled about 7 miles till i got to my garage and unloaded half of it. the only thing i could tell you is have them lower it in very slow and if you think it can take it roll with it but if not bring a trailer.


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

UPDATE-

I was out of commission for a few days since I dislocated my shoulder (thanks to a poorly salted self car wash!). Anyhow, the truck is almost ready to go. Got the 7'6" super duty installed. I must admit it was a little intimidating when I left the installer. To me it just feels big and heavy! I guess it gets some getting used too! Luckily it is only going to be sitting in our parking lot most of the time. The front end sagged quite a bit, but I just installed the Timbrens- what a difference! It only sags 1 inch with them on. I didn't measure before the Timbrens, but I can guess it was 3 or 4 inches. It now goes from 37 inches to 36. Should I still crank up the torsion bars? I don't think it's needed. I have added 500 lbs of ballest in the rear end as well, plus when the SnowEx SP 575 is fully loaded, it will add about 300 lbs more.

I ran the cables for the rear amber StrobesNmore hide a ways. I need to still install them into the rear lense. I am still trying to work out how to place the sworn in the cab along with the salter control. I have an idea (stay tuned). 

I few things I need to still work on. 1- I havent found a comfortable position for the plow while moving. I tend to keep it up high and straigh, since I am still not used to it. I know this will affect air
flow. Luckily It won't have to travel much, and if so, I will most likely leave it on the site. 2 - I noticed the truck steering turns hard (like the power steering is out) when your turning slow - pulling into a driveway. Not sure if this is an issue with the truck, or just how it handles at low speed with all the weight in the front end?

Other then these two issues, I think it is working out well- now we need snow!

I will send pics once everything is done- hopefully this weekend!


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## Chandlerarms (Nov 9, 2011)

UPDATE -

While I patiently wait for snow, I was able to mount the SnowEx 575 controller. I am not sure if I can can do much else to "clean it up" I think its a decent set up?

Funny thing is, I spent days trying to figure out how to do it - as it turns out, alls I had to do was use the bracket from the original cassett player, and some heavy duty Velcro! Did the job. I really dont want to mess with it too much more - Havent broken anything yet! Thumbs Up

I will mount the switch for the hide-a-ways behind the door that is for CD storage- under the controller.

Suggestions?


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