# Bidding on Local Fire Department Need Help. First Real Contract Estimate



## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Ok this is my first post and I need help.
I attached a maps view of the area. It is 28,069 sq ft when you take the building out.
It seems straight forward but I am admittedly new to the business but this could be a HUGE contract for us.

I am still learning my expenses rate so am sort of estimating.
I know a lot of guys are from areas of different pricing so if anyone can help walk me through how they would price it and why that would be VERY helpful.
I guess what would help me the most would be how long do you think this should take with a single truck and someone shoveling walkways and whatnot.

I plowed last season but never something this big but I know I can handle it. I just need guidance.

I have a 8.5' fisher minute mount and a 2500 silverado. I'm really glad that I found this site.

Any input would be very much appreciated.
If you need more info please let me know.

Thank You!
Tom
The Snow Punisher


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

The Snow Punishers said:


> Ok this is my first post and I need help.
> I attached a maps view of the area. It is 28,069 sq ft when you take the building out.
> It seems straight forward but I am admittedly new to the business but this could be a HUGE contract for us.
> 
> ...


Volly dept or full time? 
Decent size parking lot which is why I'd suspect volunteer.


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Volly dept or full time?
> Decent size parking lot which is why I'd suspect volunteer.


Thanks for the quick reply! It is a volunteer department but i believe they are funded by the town.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

The Snow Punishers said:


> Thanks for the quick reply! It is a volunteer department but i believe they are funded by the town.


One thing to keep in mind if you land the lot, one minute it could be completely empty, the next it could be completely full.


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

BossPlow2010 said:


> One thing to keep in mind if you land the lot, one minute it could be completely empty, the next it could be completely full.


Yea one reason why I wanted some veterans to help me out with this.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I plowed our 2 town firehalls for a number of years. They were a priority site and they do fill up quickly especially during bad weather....
What is your back up blade 
/Truck?


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Mr.Markus said:


> I plowed our 2 town firehalls for a number of years. They were a priority site and they do fill up quickly especially during bad weather....
> What is your back up blade
> /Truck?


I'm not entirely sure what you mean by back up blade but my truck is a 2001 Chevy Silverado 2500HD which is a tank. Also plan on upgrading to a very high output alternator and have dual battery setup. I have a fisher 8.5' blade with shoes and forgive me I'm still learning the jargon of the business


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

The Snow Punishers said:


> I'm not entirely sure what you mean by back up blade but my truck is a 2001 Chevy Silverado 2500HD which is a tank. Also plan on upgrading to a very high output alternator and have dual battery setup. I have a fisher 8.5' blade with shoes and forgive me I'm still learning the jargon of the business


He's asking what your backup plan is, 
19 year old truck, meaning the suspension is 19 years old and everything else is 19 years old. 
Certainly a big risk, not sure I'd risk it with a truck that old and only having one truck.


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

BossPlow2010 said:


> He's asking what your backup plan is,
> 19 year old truck, meaning the suspension is 19 years old and everything else is 19 years old.
> Certainly a big risk, not sure I'd risk it with a truck that old and only having one truck.


I have some new parts and was thinking of getting timbrens but yea you have a point but I'm kind of in a situation where I might have to risk it. Either way since I'm new to this can you help me out pricing just so I understand how you guys price out. I may not take it now but still would like to learn for future estimates


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

I'm also getting a 2nd truck next year so I may have to bid next year anyway


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

So I was able to figure this out based on a smaller lot. It was about a 6,000sqft lot I priced that I said would take me 35-40min which was about 10,000sqft / hour and the hourly rate I've been using here is $295 so if the lot is 28,000sqft itll take me about 2.8 hours which is $826. Not including salt/sand. Sound logical?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)




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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> View attachment 185356


I'm assuming you're joking because the rate seems high? That's apparently going rate here in Orange county ny


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

The Snow Punishers said:


> I'm assuming you're joking because the rate seems high? That's apparently going rate here in Orange county ny


Not just the hourly rate that I'm wondering about.

You're plowing 10K square feet\hour with a 2500 and an 8.5' plow? Is the emergency brake on? Do you take the truck out of park? Are you shoveling it?


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not just the hourly rate that I'm wondering about.
> 
> You're plowing 10K square feet\hour with a 2500 and an 8.5' plow? Is the emergency brake on? Do you take the truck out of park? Are you shoveling it?


It was a math error I found it now. Seems like 25k sqft an hour actually which puts it at roughly 1.5 hours. Does that sound better? I can't read my own handwriting lol I thought about it and was like theres no way because I can clear 5000sqft in like 15 min


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

The Snow Punishers said:


> Does that sound better?


No


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## Robinson_Cnst (Jan 4, 2013)

So far from this thread I've learned I'm plowing way too fast and not charging near enoughlowred:


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No


Care to elaborate lol I'm asking for help here not claiming to be a plowing genius


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Robinson_Cnst said:


> So far from this thread I've learned I'm plowing way too fast and not charging near enoughlowred:


Your insurance is probably rock bottom ny is expensive


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

The Snow Punishers said:


> Care to elaborate lol I'm asking for help here not claiming to be a plowing genius


Just starting out you should be plowing about an acre an hour


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Just starting out you should be plowing about an acre an hour


Ok now that is helpful thank you


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

The Snow Punishers said:


> Care to elaborate lol I'm asking for help here not claiming to be a plowing genius


Industry average is 1 acre/hour with a pickup and an 8' plow.


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## Robinson_Cnst (Jan 4, 2013)

43560 sq/ft in an acre. A proficient plower with a 3/4 ton truck and 8' strait blade should be able to knock out a square acre lot in one hour and have time for a smoke. 

I don't know what your "going rate" is there but in central IL that's a $100-$125 lot all winter long.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

A proficient plower should be able to knock out an acre lot that is simple in much less than an hour.


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## Robinson_Cnst (Jan 4, 2013)

The Snow Punishers said:


> Your insurance is probably rock bottom ny is expensive


My insurance is probably more than most guys here profit


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Ok so an acre an hour for simplicity and going rate here is just around where I am if not higher at $295. I appreciate the feedback guys that helps a lot


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Have you considered subbing for someone else?


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Have you considered subbing for someone else?


Yes I know last year I had that opportunity late in season I'm still exploring all my options. I'm only getting a 2nd truck next year though


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Have you considered subbing for someone else?


I remember back in the day...Some mop haired kid subbing...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I remember back in the day...Some mop haired kid subbing...


Yesterday???


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Subbing may be a good back up if nothing else. I'm not entirely versed on all aspects yet


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## Robinson_Cnst (Jan 4, 2013)

The Snow Punishers said:


> Subbing may be a good back up if nothing else. I'm not entirely versed on all aspects yet


I highly recommend working as a sub, providing they allow you to manage your own accounts as well. Find someone who has properties close to the ones you are bidding. Form a network with other contractors where you sub for them and if you ever need bailed out they are there for you. Great way to get your feet wet and learn the basics. Also help offset operation expenses.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yesterday???


I haven't seen him in a while...Ryan says he is all grown up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I haven't seen him in a while...Ryan says he is all grown up


What time of day did he see him?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

I agree with the subbing....I have trained a lot of guys in my day..My latest project are the Hillbilly Brothers...If they can be trained anyone can...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I agree with the subbing....I have trained a lot of guys in my day..My latest project are the Hillbilly Brothers...If they can be trained anyone can...


Shouldn't their employer train them???


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Work as a sub this year and learn the business. Get a second truck next year and go out on ur own with a clue of how it all works


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Robinson_Cnst said:


> I highly recommend working as a sub, providing they allow you to manage your own accounts as well. Find someone who has properties close to the ones you are bidding. Form a network with other contractors where you sub for them and if you ever need bailed out they are there for you. Great way to get your feet wet and learn the basics. Also help offset operation expenses.


Wow thank you I think I'll do that that is great info thanks!


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

iceyman said:


> Work as a sub this year and learn the business. Get a second truck next year and go out on ur own with a clue of how it all works


Yea I did it a bit last year but gotta learn basics still.


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Defcon 5 said:


> I agree with the subbing....I have trained a lot of guys in my day..My latest project are the Hillbilly Brothers...If they can be trained anyone can...


I'd like to think I got a my feet damp at least lol not quite wet yet but I'm good at managing business I'm still learning a lot for plowing sad thing is I could've partnered with my ex father in law but ...
Things happen lol I still have some contractors in my phonebook from last season I'll reach out to them


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## Robinson_Cnst (Jan 4, 2013)

Curious, what is your main business? Are you currently self employed? Insurance and payroll setup?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Defcon 5 said:


> I remember back in the day...Some mop haired kid subbing...


Too bad he ****ed up, and plowed the lot earlier than you had wanted.
Probably the best the record for getting on your crap list quickest.
That was when he may or may not have plowed a HOA.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Shouldn't their employer train them???


Did you ask that question with a straight face??


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Did you ask that question with a straight face??


What do you think?


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Robinson_Cnst said:


> Curious, what is your main business? Are you currently self employed? Insurance and payroll setup?


I'm a landlord and plumber. So no beginner when it comes to insurance lol.


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