# Insurance Rates for a Newbie......HOLY COW!!



## bltp203 (Nov 5, 2006)

Finally decide to be a subcontractor on top of plowing my own properties. Give the insurance lady a call and she dropped the bomb today. $2100 for Commercial Auto Insurance (Progressive) and $1000 for half million of General Liability.

I told her thats insane. She tells me that no one wants to write on someone who "just plows snow". Says that if I was a full blown lawn / snow company, then my rates would be lower (yes, I am considering it).

I would have to plow 41 hours at $75 per hour to just pay the insurance!!!!!!! 

Now I see why so many people who want to be legitimate get discouraged so easily and why you guys can't stand the lowballers with no insurance.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

As they say shop around. Find an insurance broker who can check other places.


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## BladeScapes (Sep 22, 2007)

bltp203;416303 said:


> Finally decide to be a subcontractor on top of plowing my own properties. Give the insurance lady a call and she dropped the bomb today. $2100 for Commercial Auto Insurance (Progressive) and $1000 for half million of General Liability.
> 
> I told her thats insane. She tells me that no one wants to write on someone who "just plows snow". Says that if I was a full blown lawn / snow company, then my rates would be lower (yes, I am considering it).
> 
> ...


That sounds way high. I pay $780 a year for my 1 million dollar insurance General Liability policy, but yea it's a full blown lawn/snow company.


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## ondagawood (Sep 19, 2007)

I'm new to this also - part-time but I added more ins. (100K) on top of what I have - it changed my rate by $32 for 6 months. Do you (we) need 1 million $ ? What on earth are you (we) going to hit ? (damage) Maybe I shouldn't comment but I want to know whats going on out there. :waving:


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

Your good until you hit the bus stop with 10 people standing at it. I think the million is more for slip and falls then hitting something. Our minimum is 2 million and they might raise it to 5. I pay 3% of my gross. There is a minimum but I am way past that.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

bltp203;416303 said:


> Finally decide to be a subcontractor on top of plowing my own properties. Give the insurance lady a call and she dropped the bomb today. $2100 for Commercial Auto Insurance (Progressive) and $1000 for half million of General Liability.
> 
> I told her thats insane. She tells me that no one wants to write on someone who "just plows snow". Says that if I was a full blown lawn / snow company, then my rates would be lower (yes, I am considering it).
> 
> ...


hey. thats what they quoted me last month. and the quote says "landscaping and snowplowing". i dont landscape either.

although mine was for two vehicles at five hundred k.

no. i didnt take it. its on my list of arguements i need to have with myself. i dont think i was quite as surprised as you. i didnt think it was THAT high.


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## bigearl (Jun 11, 2007)

Try adding a stump grinder to your insuarnce policy. Chance of flying objects and all.


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## ondagawood (Sep 19, 2007)

bigearl;416355 said:


> Try adding a stump grinder to your insuarnce policy. Chance of flying objects and all.


Flying objects  LOL stick with pushing "fluff" (snow) payup


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## bltp203 (Nov 5, 2006)

So, here is my question.

When does the insurance for the company I am contracting with kick in??????

Also, where does the liability fall when I plow and someone else does the salting???? Who would get sued if there is a slip and fall???

For those who hire subs......What insurance limits do you require? I agree a million may be too much for just pushing snow.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

bltp203;416458 said:


> So, here is my question.
> 
> When does the insurance for the company I am contracting with kick in??????
> 
> ...





cet;416341 said:


> Your good until you hit the bus stop with 10 people standing at it. I think the million is more for slip and falls then hitting something. Our minimum is 2 million and they might raise it to 5. I pay 3% of my gross. There is a minimum but I am way past that.


I agree 1 mill is a minimum.

What happens when as a result of your plowing a busy business is shut down for a day or two?

You hit the power or gas line, gas pumps etc,etc.

You will be sued
Lawyer$$$
paying to fix what you hit$$ and
pay the loss the business suffered because of your damage?

Next, what if you hit a kid and cripple them?
A broken hip, you pay for more than the emergency room.
You will be sued Civilly too.
What if you kill some, one a million will not even start to cover you.
Exampel, The airlines pay 2.5 for every death.

You have Ins for the worst case scenario, not for when you hit
the No parking sign or the mailbox.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

bltp203;416458 said:


> So, here is my question.
> 
> When does the insurance for the company I am contracting with kick in??????
> 
> ...


_*Really, it will depend on the area and local custom. *_


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## bltp203 (Nov 5, 2006)

I guess I will clarify my last......

If I am hired by "ABC Plowing" as a subcontractor......What does ABC's insurance cover if I am carrying insurance as well?

This may sound silly, but it seems like it give the lawyers two targets to shoot at.....when all you need is one.


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

Most commercial accounts require a minimum of 1 Million Liability insurance and also 250,000/500,000 liability policy on each vehicle.

They will also want proof of workers compensation insurance if you have employees.

As far as who is liable if you do have an occurance.....thats for your lawyer and insurance people to figure out. Thats what you pay them for.


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

bltp203;416493 said:


> I guess I will clarify my last......
> 
> If I am hired by "ABC Plowing" as a subcontractor......What does ABC's insurance cover if I am carrying insurance as well?
> 
> This may sound silly, but it seems like it give the lawyers two targets to shoot at.....when all you need is one.


Dont go crazy thinking about it. Just make sure you have your insurance in place. The rest is vague, by chance, and not really up to you other than being careful and trying to never have to file a claim or even call your agent for that matter.


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## bltp203 (Nov 5, 2006)

You are right..........I will shop around and in the end if it isn't worth it, then I will just not bother.


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## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

sorry man but those are cheap. Currently I pay for 1 million liability 2400 a year and for plow insurance on the truck I pay $6000-6500. You have nothing to complain about lol


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## stcroixjoe (Feb 10, 2006)

im a flooring sub contractor and i plow in the winter cause its slow and i pay around 500 for 2 million and they write my plowing as street cleaning


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

if you are only plowing as a sub for one person talk to that owner and see if you can be listed under his policy. that way all you might have to do is have your truck insurance listed that you have a plow, and the liability will be covered by your boss' blanket policy.

that way your truck is covered if you are in an accident by your insurance
your plow is also covered 

Your liability is covered by your boss and any damage you do ect is also covered.

might be worth while taking a bit less per hour but less risk.


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## mrbrickman (Nov 13, 2006)

its not just property damage thats gonna cost you 1 or 2 million, to my understanding it also covers defamation of character etc....i.e. you make a large mall look like a moron by not plowing the lots when its the week before christmas...theyll turn around and sue you for everything they can


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

MIDTOWNPC;416609 said:


> if you are only plowing as a sub for one person talk to that owner and see if you can be listed under his policy. that way all you might have to do is have your truck insurance listed that you have a plow, and the liability will be covered by your boss' blanket policy.
> 
> that way your truck is covered if you are in an accident by your insurance
> your plow is also covered
> ...


I have a lot that I hold the contract for.
I want to hire a sub"contractor". Lets call him/his companey Jacks Plowing
I just became the general contractor and Jack's Plowing ( a LLC LLP or a CO etc etc)
... Became the sub"contractor"
An as a businessman in the snow removel/plowing industry he The sub-contractor will need to carry His own INS.

Read this link if they are your boss you are not a contractor or a sub-contractor you are an employee and you will be covered by His INS not yours.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html



mrbrickman;416675 said:


> its not just property damage thats gonna cost you 1 or 2 million, to my understanding it also covers defamation of character etc....i.e. you make a large mall look like a moron by not plowing the lots when its the week before christmas...theyll turn around and sue you for everything they can


Not defamation 
It would be for non-fesses, you did not do the job.
Yes. they will file a lawsuite so fast your head will spin.


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## DeereFarmer (Dec 12, 2005)

When I plowed at age 16 I was paying just under $3100 a year in commercial insurance and then another $1200 in liability. Never needed to use it, but I still say it is worth every penny. Now that I just have regualr insurance I still pay $1600 a year just because I'm 19 years old! I've never had a ticket or an accident.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

MIDTOWNPC;416609 said:


> if you are only plowing as a sub for one person talk to that owner and see if you can be listed under his policy. that way all you might have to do is have your truck insurance listed that you have a plow, and the liability will be covered by your boss' blanket policy.
> 
> that way your truck is covered if you are in an accident by your insurance
> your plow is also covered
> ...


I think it's a little different here. All our subs are listed on our policy and they don't have any additional snow insurance. I only sub 4 tractors and a skid and no pickups, so I'm not sure how a pickup would be. We are not as sue happy here in Canada, but it's getting worse every year, people looking for easy money. For most of our jobs we have to have 5 mill or we can't even bid.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Some of you may not know this ,but insurance is also based on credit rating so if you don't have any or it sucks you will pay more. Plus most companies base the rate on your income. So if you tell them your going to do 50,000 in snowplowing it maybe a base price plus so much per 1,000. That's why you see a difference in all of these quotes everybody is saying. Also if you have Erie Insurance in your park check them out.


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## Kennedy81 (Oct 8, 2007)

Be sure you get the commercial insurance. 
I buddy of mine didn't have it, had a lady hit him in a lot why he was plowing, it was her fault. When her insurance company contacted his, his immediately questioned what he was doing. Long story short, since he was plowing commercially, but with personal insurance, his insurance complany dropped him imediately, and he had issues finding new personal insurance.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

mrbrickman;416675 said:


> its not just property damage thats gonna cost you 1 or 2 million, to my understanding it also covers defamation of character etc....i.e. you make a large mall look like a moron by not plowing the lots when its the week before christmas...theyll turn around and sue you for everything they can


And your insurance may not cover it. Deliberate malfeasance, they might pay off the court ordered judgment, but they'll file a supplication suit against you so fast your head will spin.


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## packey (Oct 15, 2007)

My insurance is 1500 per year 1 million general liability and 320 comercial liability on truck.


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## GreenAcresFert (Sep 28, 2007)

bltp203;416538 said:


> You are right..........I will shop around and in the end if it isn't worth it, then I will just not bother.


Give me a call 734 320 3322. I have a guy out of Birmingham that my old business partner has used for years and turned me on to him. I run fertilizer, then snow plowing in the winter, so I'm not sure what the price difference would be for just snow. I didn't know there was a difference. Anyways, call me, or e-mail me ([email protected]) and I'll give you his number. Its worth a shot anyways. Thanks, Bryan


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## All Season Lawn (Jul 14, 2007)

My insurance for the whole year with commercial insurance on the truck and liability insurance on my plowing and lawn care is(1 million worth) $1900.00


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## bltp203 (Nov 5, 2006)

Just to update.....

It does pay to call around. I was able to get a 1 million dollar policy for $445.00 and my commercial auto was $1464.00........thats about $1100.00 less then my first quote.

If anyone in SE Michigan wants more details on this agency, feel free to PM me.


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## proplowing (Nov 2, 2007)

*too much*

I am paying $ 750 for a one year coverage with 1 million in liability. I am not a full landscape company. I only plow.

Pro plower


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## Jbowe (Mar 22, 2006)

*Insurance*

When I have had to hire subs during really big snows I require that they carry the 1 mil in insurance. Along with that I require a copy of thier bond. These are faxed to me with my company as the insured for the jobs they are on. Same as if it was a concrete sub contractor during the summers. I never use anyone who is unlicensed. Just saves a lot of hassels because if thier legit then they are just as aware of the consequences as you are. People that are just making beer money don't care if they hit a garage door or run someone mail bax over. There just there for the one time event anyway.


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## rfed32 (Nov 4, 2005)

i would jst say ur a full blown lc comp...next year get a walkbeind throw it in the truck cut 1-5 lawns and do a muclh job and id say ur good togo plus its a littl extra cash


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