# Am I crazy?



## jkrezdorn

Here are a few pictures from our Storage facility and a competitor about ten miles away. I clear door to door. It may not be the first day but within a few days I am clear. My dad is a truck driver and tells me I am crazy to do what I do. He sees facilities that clear a path down the isle and let the customer fend for themselves.


----------



## JustJeff

I've got one that I do that doesn't come out quite as good as yours, but much better than your competitor's. The difference between mine and yours is that on mine, the drives are asphalt, but there is a raised concrete foundation that comes out about two feet in front of the doors. So, I run my blade on the asphalt along the edge of the concrete and the little bit that's left on the raised concrete stays there. I'll have to get a pic next time I'm out.


----------



## JustJeff

And come to think of it, that's probably my least favorite place on my route. Mine has three runs that are probably 500 feet long, and that's a long way to carry snow.


----------



## jkrezdorn

Harleyjeff;2104761 said:


> And come to think of it, that's probably my least favorite place on my route. Mine has three runs that are probably 500 feet long, and that's a long way to carry snow.


My drives are 300 feet and that seems like a lot of snow. I have been known to nick the door jamb with the blade. I still get customer that complain about shoveling that 4 inches of snow in front of their door. I help if I am there. I always think parking lots and driveways would be much easier. Grass is always greener ehh.


----------



## jonniesmooth

*crazy*

I have one like yours, and I plow it like you do. They have concrete deals that the downspouts empty into that are aboot 3' long, so I have to swerve around them. The owner does want us to periodically shovel out the doors for the renters. We haven't done it yet this year, less then a foot of snow so far and it's 43 degrees today.

So this seems like a good place for this question.

HOW FAST DO YOU DRIVE WHEN YOU BACK UP ON THESE LONG RUNS?


----------



## JustJeff

If they would have laid the asphalt thicker and level with the concrete foundations I would plow closer as well. I rarely back up doing the storage facility. It's faster for me to turn and drive back down one of the lanes and then come back to the same lane again. My reverse gear whines like a b**** at higher speeds.


----------



## jonniesmooth

*experimenting*



Harleyjeff;2104875 said:


> If they would have laid the asphalt thicker and level with the concrete foundations I would plow closer as well. I rarely back up doing the storage facility. It's faster for me to turn and drive back down one of the lanes and then come back to the same lane again. My reverse gear whines like a b**** at higher speeds.


I am experimenting with different ways to see which gets me done faster, now that we have established a base line price per push.

caught myself doing 30 mph on one pass, decided that was really dangerous. It was at night and nobody was around there, but not worth the risk.


----------



## leolkfrm

if you get premium pay then you do a premium job!


----------



## Derek'sDumpstersInc

That is how I got my storage facility account. The guy that was plowing it before me was leaving between 12-18" unplowed along the front of the units. I said I would get less than 12" and did. They were very happy with my work, however I insisted on a 2" trigger citing that as the industry standard. Unfortunately, the tightwad owner wanted a 3" trigger and when it came time to resign this season, he insisted on 3" and I wouldn't budge, so I lost it.


----------



## JustJeff

I don't know about a 2" standard. Most of our accounts are zero tolerance. But my one storage facility is a 2" trigger.


----------



## snowplower1

I think the standard is quickly moving to zero tolerance and that makes me happy because there isn't the well there's an inch and a half and I'm not supposed to plow it but if I just salt it I'm gonna use a crap ton. 
Looks nice, we dont go after these, majority of the ones around here are run down and cheap. No money in them for the work they require around here


----------



## BUFF

It could be the other storage facility only wants a single pass through the isle's. If the OP use to do the facility he may have some insight as to what they require for service. 
I lost a lot this year that I've plowed for a couple years due to price. I never raised my rate and figure a plow for beer guy low balled me. The first snow of the year it was very apparent the property mgr was looking for the lowest bidder and didn't care about quality. The new guys aren't pulling any snow out of the corners in the lot or relocating snow into a couple spots that I was told to stack. Instead they're just pushing snow and putting it wherever they want which is resulting in lose of parking spaces and melt refreeze issued. They even stack snow in the handicap spots and there's not access to the ramp in the curb.


----------



## 94gt331

We plow one small storage facility. We try to get as close to the doors as you do, and we leave alittle in front of each door , I would like to shovel in front of each one, but don't have the time. On residential driveways we allways shovel in front of there doors.


----------



## jkrezdorn

BUFF;2105186 said:


> It could be the other storage facility only wants a single pass through the isle's. If the OP use to do the facility he may have some insight as to what they require for service.
> I lost a lot this year that I've plowed for a couple years due to price. I never raised my rate and figure a plow for beer guy low balled me. The first snow of the year it was very apparent the property mgr was looking for the lowest bidder and didn't care about quality. The new guys aren't pulling any snow out of the corners in the lot or relocating snow into a couple spots that I was told to stack. Instead they're just pushing snow and putting it wherever they want which is resulting in lose of parking spaces and melt refreeze issued. They even stack snow in the handicap spots and there's not access to the ramp in the curb.


I am the Facility owner. I meant the other facility owner. I only plow my facility my driveway and daughters driveway. Take a look at the facility from Google earth. DAK Self Storage 25 Peach Street, Leesport, PA 19533. I use the name as we have two 25 peach sts in leesport. Customers that use eyephone to find us always end up at the other one in a housing development.
The issue with plowing a Storage facility is that it's fenced in and you run out of room. I keep the plow mounted and plow a little at a time into the drived to melt.
After plowing on Sunday, I cam to the facility only to find a customer had a tractor trailer delivery. I tuned up the edges and the Canadian driver told me it was one of the cleanest and easiest to get in he has ever seen this soon after a storm Thumbs Up


----------



## dieselss

So you own the storage lot, and are on here bragging how close to the doors you get while another place doesn't get it as clean? That what your getting at? Then posting your blog about it?


----------



## BUFF

jkrezdorn;2105374 said:


> I am the Facility owner. I meant the other facility owner. I only plow my facility my driveway and daughters driveway. Take a look at the facility from Google earth. DAK Self Storage 25 Peach Street, Leesport, PA 19533. I use the name as we have two 25 peach sts in leesport. Customers that use eyephone to find us always end up at the other one in a housing development.
> The issue with plowing a Storage facility is that it's fenced in and you run out of room. I keep the plow mounted and plow a little at a time into the drived to melt.
> After plowing on Sunday, I cam to the facility only to find a customer had a tractor trailer delivery. I tuned up the edges and the Canadian driver told me it was one of the cleanest and easiest to get in he has ever seen this soon after a storm Thumbs Up


Since it's your place time/labor isn't a issue, you can do the detail work that most contractors would prefer to do but don't due to customers not having the budget to pay for it. 
Your lot was cleared off and look good, to compare it to the other lot is ridiculous and egotistical.



dieselss;2105379 said:



> So you own the storage lot, and are on here bragging how close to the doors you get while another place doesn't get it as clean? That what your getting at? Then posting your blog about it?


----------



## jkrezdorn

BUFF;2105389 said:


> Since it's your place time/labor isn't a issue, you can do the detail work that most contractors would prefer to do but don't due to customers not having the budget to pay for it.


Time and Labor isn't an issue???? What do you do for a living? Do you like to be paid for what you do? I certainly do. I would much rather sit at home with the grandchildren and build snow forts.

My time is just as valuable as anyone else. I blocked it out on the other pictures. But the other place is a Rental place and has more equipment than you and I do to clear snow. I guess time and labor not an issue for them either.

Seems egotistical to suggest your time is worth more than my time. Every time I mount that plow it cost me not only time, but wear and tear on equipment. Sorry you did not like the blog post. Again I wrote that several years ago and thought others that plow could appreciate it.

I did not come here to argue with people. I thought it would a place for chatting with other like minded folks. May not be the case though?

Sorry I don't make any money while doing this. I guess that is what the site is for, the "Professionals" that get paid to plow.
If so I can leave. No skin off my A$$.

If you read my post you would see that facility is not the only one to do that.


----------



## dieselss

2 other drives right?


----------



## BUFF

jkrezdorn;2105442 said:


> Time and Labor isn't an issue???? What do you do for a living? Do you like to be paid for what you do? I certainly do. I would much rather sit at home with the grandchildren and build snow forts.
> 
> My time is just as valuable as anyone else. I blocked it out on the other pictures. But the other place is a Rental place and has more equipment than you and I do to clear snow. I guess time and labor not an issue for them either.
> 
> Seems egotistical to suggest your time is worth more than my time. Every time I mount that plow it cost me not only time, but wear and tear on equipment. Sorry you did not like the blog post. Again I wrote that several years ago and thought others that plow could appreciate it.
> 
> I did not come here to argue with people. I thought it would a place for chatting with other like minded folks. May not be the case though?
> 
> Sorry I don't make any money while doing this. I guess that is what the site is for, the "Professionals" that get paid to plow.
> If so I can leave. No skin off my A$$.
> 
> If you read my post you would see that facility is not the only one to do that.


I sell services that time and materials dictate the rate. You have 2 property's to take care of while snow removal contractors have dozens or hundreds. There's a huge difference between maintaining your own property's than doing it as a business, it's like comparing apples to oranges.
As I said before your lot looks good, if you took offense to my other comments then so be it.


----------



## Derek'sDumpstersInc

snowplower1;2105182 said:


> I think the standard is quickly moving to zero tolerance and that makes me happy because there isn't the well there's an inch and a half and I'm not supposed to plow it but if I just salt it I'm gonna use a crap ton.
> Looks nice, we dont go after these, majority of the ones around here are run down and cheap. No money in them for the work they require around here


If you can get your customers to sign for and pay for zero tolerance, than more power to you. From what I have read in here, it's my understanding that the east coast is pretty litigious when it comes to S&F's (more so than here in the Midwest anyways) so that may be the trend out there. I have several new perspective clients every year that request bids for 3" and up. If I can't get them to drop to 2", I move on. A vast majority of our storms fall into the 2-5" depths. I have one (out of 9) accounts with a 1" trigger, because the only entrance/exit into the lot is a sloped drive down into the lot. So if they have too deep of snow, they get down in, but can't get out at the end of the day.


----------



## jkrezdorn

BUFF;2105467 said:


> I sell services that time and materials dictate the rate. You have 2 property's to take care of while snow removal contractors have dozens or hundreds. There's a huge difference between maintaining your own property's than doing it as a business, it's like comparing apples to oranges.
> As I said before your lot looks good, if you took offense to my other comments then so be it.


No offense. Everyone a little testy after working so many hours. I actually have 2 daughters and help the neighbors. On my way to my daughters I stopped and did two pushes for what looked like an 80 YO. I saved him hours of shoveling and a possible heart attack. When finished he asked how much. I told him nothing, go inside and warm up. 
Out of curiosity, How many lots like mine will one driver/truck do in a day? I can't imagine one guy doing dozens of these in a day.

I do speak with other facilities in the area. The owner a several facilities told me last year he spent over $40,000 on snow removal. That is money out of our pocket. Last year we had snow every week from Thanksgiving on. I was running out of rum to put it. I was going to call a guy I used in the past to put it over the fence. Luckily it let up and I just kept plowing around the fence line and pile pushing into the drives to melt.


----------



## jkrezdorn

dieselss;2105452 said:


> 2 other drives right?


Actually they are all to the left.

Can we all chill.

I certainly did not want to offend anyone. I take pride in the way our place looks and was just showing it.


----------



## jonniesmooth

*trigger*



Harleyjeff;2105117 said:


> I don't know about a 2" standard. Most of our accounts are zero tolerance. But my one storage facility is a 2" trigger.


The one I have is gravel. Owner wants me to leave the less then 2" snows to build a base. So it's nice that way,that I can get it pushed open,entrance,doors used by route delivery trucks, then wait till the end of the day or next day to clean up, after the driving lanes have packed down. They tell people when they rent a unit to bring a shovel with in the winter to get to their door.

Have lost 4 of my 6 new seasonal residentials already. They didn't know how to measure 2", and one didn't understand that if they didn't pay, that I would skip them when we did go out, and that I wouldn't make a special trip just for them when they did pay.


----------



## jkrezdorn

jonniesmooth;2105509 said:


> The one I have is gravel. Owner wants me to leave the less then 2" snows to build a base. So it's nice that way,that I can get it pushed open,entrance,doors used by route delivery trucks, then wait till the end of the day or next day to clean up, after the driving lanes have packed down. They tell people when they rent a unit to bring a shovel with in the winter to get to their door.
> 
> Have lost 4 of my 6 new seasonal residentials already. They didn't know how to measure 2", and one didn't understand that if they didn't pay, that I would skip them when we did go out, and that I wouldn't make a special trip just for them when they did pay.


I ask my tenants to do the same. I tell them if I am here I will help them. I just pull the truck to the storage unit, shovel them out and move on. Out of 200 doors, maybe at most 2 dozen people show up before the snow is melted. I do the same and try to make sure delivery drivers can get in. The main gate is on a hill and I try to keep that salted and spotless.

Yes pay or no work. Some times it sucks to lose a customer, but sometimes you are better off without them.

We used to be Painting contractors. I had one builder that I had a bad feeling about. We took the touch up paint that we always leave until we touch up so it blends in. He took forever to pay then check bounced.

We went to his home and demanded immediate payment. He himmed and hawed around until I told him good luck with the touch up. He asked why? I told him you have no idea of the brand and color. He gave another check. I told him when it clears I will drop paint off, and he can find someone else to paint for him. Again I like to be paid for work completed. We stuck with the builders and were loyal to the ones that always paid.


----------



## BUFF

jkrezdorn;2105487 said:


> Out of curiosity, How many lots like mine will one driver/truck do in a day? I can't imagine one guy doing dozens of these in a day.


According to Find Lot Size http://www.findlotsize.com/ you have aboot 1.5acres which includes the lot along the road. Just plowing you should be able to plow it in about 30 minutes for up to 5" <>, I use a V plow with wings which is a benefit for longer pushes and clean passes. More snow obviously will require more time, however keep in mind as soon as triggers are hit contractors are plowing. 
I won't do storage facility's due to places to stack snow, there's issues with people and their vehicles in the lot and most do pay well.


----------



## jkrezdorn

BUFF;2105527 said:


> According to Find Lot Size http://www.findlotsize.com/ you have aboot 1.5acres which includes the lot along the road. Just plowing you should be able to plow it in about 30 minutes for up to 5" <>, I use a V plow with wings which is a benefit for longer pushes and clean passes. More snow obviously will require more time, however keep in mind as soon as triggers are hit contractors are plowing.
> I won't do storage facility's due to places to stack snow, there's issues with people and their vehicles in the lot and most do pay well.


WOW. I must be a terrible plow driver. I have never done it that quickly. During last storm I plowed the night before just to open the drives and the entrance. May have taken about 1 1/2 hours. Then the next day I was here for almost six hours to get it to look like this. You are correct, we have no room to push the snow when we get hit as hard as we did. With 300 foot buildings the snow just keeps pushing to the doors.

In this deep of snow I could no way push it all. I drove down better than half way and dropped blade. then did second push with the rest.

I have been doing this since 2000 and of course found some short cuts. I try to avoid backing up now as much as I can. I try to make passes going both directions. The issue with that is I run out of room to pile the snow.

Over the summer a Truck driver took out our 30' gate. I am going to be able to salvage 20" of it an want to put a slide gate at the lower the end of Facility. I could then open gate and push out into where the road was supposed to go and now never will because of the construction next door. The road was only on paper and somehow they got it removed. Next year I will have that gate installed to make things a bit easier.


----------



## Derek'sDumpstersInc

jkrezdorn;2105544 said:


> WOW. I must be a terrible plow driver. I have never done it that quickly. During last storm I plowed the night before just to open the drives and the entrance. May have taken about 1 1/2 hours. Then the next day I was here for almost six hours to get it to look like this. You are correct, we have no room to push the snow when we get hit as hard as we did. With 300 foot buildings the snow just keeps pushing to the doors.
> 
> In this deep of snow I could no way push it all. I drove down better than half way and dropped blade. then did second push with the rest.
> 
> I have been doing this since 2000 and of course found some short cuts. I try to avoid backing up now as much as I can. I try to make passes going both directions. The issue with that is I run out of room to pile the snow.
> 
> Over the summer a Truck driver took out our 30' gate. I am going to be able to salvage 20" of it an want to put a slide gate at the lower the end of Facility. I could then open gate and push out into where the road was supposed to go and now never will because of the construction next door. The road was only on paper and somehow they got it removed. Next year I will have that gate installed to make things a bit easier.


You and me both. I measured the site I did and came up with 2 acres of pavement to plow/salt. It took me about 2.5 hrs to plow and treat a 3" storm.


----------



## BUFF

derekslawncare;2105587 said:


> You and me both. I measured the site I did and came up with 2 acres of pavement to plow/salt. It took me about 2.5 hrs to plow and treat a 3" storm.


I measured the lot which included the 3 units and came up < 2 acres, measured the middle unit .218 acres and came up 1.5acres <>.
Rows between units are 25'<>, unit's around aboot 300' long and figured on 3passes between each unit for lower accumulations and maybe one clean up pass down each. Higher amounts of snow will add another full pass down each row. The key thing on property's like this plowing them with 4-5" or less due to the length of the push and not being able to windrow, it all needs to be pushed with minimum windrows left. 
I didn't include salting in my pervious time, Salting should take less than 10min to do all paved surfaces. 
A skid or tractor with a 10' box would be ideal for type of property but it's to small to justify IMO.


----------



## Derek'sDumpstersInc

BUFF;2105602 said:


> I measured the lot which included the 3 units and came up < 2 acres, measured the middle unit .218 acres and came up 1.5acres <>.
> Rows between units are 25'<>, unit's around aboot 300' long and figured on 3passes between each unit for lower accumulations and maybe one clean up pass down each. Higher amounts of snow will add another full pass down each row. The key thing on property's like this plowing them with 4-5" or less due to the length of the push and not being able to windrow, it all needs to be pushed with minimum windrows left.
> I didn't include salting in my pervious time, Salting should take less than 10min to do all paved surfaces.
> A skid or tractor with a 10' box would be ideal for type of property but it's to small to justify IMO.


Yeah, once I got my skid with the HLA 914, I was able to shave about 45 mins off that time. What REALLY killed me at my location was that every aisle down between the buildings was a HUGE V,so you couldn't just windrow out from each building into the middle, you had to make a pass along each building and then another 2 passes down each center with the edge of the blade hugging the center of the trough, so a minimum of 4 passes down each aisle. Also, for whatever reason, it seemed like at the end of every building, there would be an elevation change, so you'd have a 12" drop in the aisle all of a sudden. It was good money, but maddening. Needless to say, I have mixed emotions about losing the account.


----------



## jkrezdorn

I would think you are dead on with those numbers. The building to the left is 30x270 middle 30x290 and right 30x300. The two middle drives are 30' wide and the two outside are about 27'. So averaged out dead on. With a 6" snow I could maybe do it in a little over an hour and a half as I did the night before. The one thing that can't be seen from space is the elevation change from that upper building to the three others. I guess what really sucks is running out of room. I do have a gate to open and push into the detention pond at the bottom. In fact I can see my Blizzard plow in front of the gate. The only issue is it drops off good into the pond and I had to be careful not to go over the edge. Not to mention cleaning up away from the double swing gate to close it. I should have made this wider and put a slide gate at the bottom of both center drives. Hindsite is 20/20. I have a slide gate (salvaged 20-25 feet from gate hit by truck driver) that I am going to place in front of that truck between the curve and the tree line.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Not sure anyone answered your question. The answer is yes. 

No one that performs plowing as a service for a living would never get that close to anything.


----------



## BUFF

derekslawncare;2105616 said:


> Yeah, once I got my skid with the HLA 914, I was able to shave about 45 mins off that time. What REALLY killed me at my location was that every aisle down between the buildings was a HUGE V,so you couldn't just windrow out from each building into the middle, you had to make a pass along each building and then another 2 passes down each center with the edge of the blade hugging the center of the trough, so a minimum of 4 passes down each aisle. Also, for whatever reason, it seemed like at the end of every building, there would be an elevation change, so you'd have a 12" drop in the aisle all of a sudden. It was good money, but maddening. Needless to say, I have mixed emotions about losing the account.


I'm going off of what I can see without actually setting foot on the property.
You pointed oot several things that I see in self store facility's but I can only work from the pics.



jkrezdorn;2105621 said:


> I would think you are dead on with those numbers. The building to the left is 30x270 middle 30x290 and right 30x300. The two middle drives are 30' wide and the two outside are about 27'. So averaged out dead on. With a 6" snow I could maybe do it in a little over an hour and a half as I did the night before. The one thing that can't be seen from space is the elevation change from that upper building to the three others. I guess what really sucks is running out of room. I do have a gate to open and push into the detention pond at the bottom. In fact I can see my Blizzard plow in front of the gate. The only issue is it drops off good into the pond and I had to be careful not to go over the edge. Not to mention cleaning up away from the double swing gate to close it. I should have made this wider and put a slide gate at the bottom of both center drives. Hindsite is 20/20. I have a slide gate (salvaged 20-25 feet from gate hit by truck driver) that I am going to place in front of that truck between the curve and the tree line.


If your truck has a manual trans you'd be more efficient...... (inside joke)



Mark Oomkes;2105670 said:


> No one that performs plowing as a service for a living would never get that close to anything.


I my contracts it clearing states building and vehicles will be plowed within 2feet and curbs with in 6inches. If the customer wants any of those items clean up with a shovel it comes at an extra cost. 
All my commercial property's are light industrial (factory's) or churches and they don't require or want to pay for that level of detail. Also oot west we understand that in the winter you have to be cautious of snow/ice and dress accordingly.


----------



## jonniesmooth

The office manager for the storage I do is a friend of mine. So I know what the last guys were billing it at. They were at 1.25 hours, and it takes me 1.5, but there is a new loading dock, 4 bays, to back drag that they didn't have last year.


----------



## aagroundclearin

2" is pretty standard around here for plowing. Normally burn it off with salt any less than that.Give or take a smidge, w/temps and time of day it is. Per ton rate customers tend to lean towards dropping the plows 1st before salting if accumulations are close.


----------



## jonniesmooth

aagroundclearin;2105854 said:


> 2" is pretty standard around here for plowing. Normally burn it off with salt any less than that.Give or take a smidge, w/temps and time of day it is. Per ton rate customers tend to lean towards dropping the plows 1st before salting if accumulations are close.


That's my theory of operation as well.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

It's ridiculous and irresponsible to regularly burn off 2" of snow with salt.


----------



## IPLOWSNO

I did one last year with a loader, I got as close as I could with my pusher as far right as I could chain it up to keep the loader away from it,

I was told I did to nice a job and then someone else started doing it, and it wasn't long and I was back to doing it!

This idiot had huge piles half way down the aisles because he couldn't push them that far, we used the same loader so it was experience not power lol
But that place sucked to plow, we had to truck snow out we got so much! This year they got a reprieve because we got none good year to not go back thank god!


----------



## jonniesmooth

Mark Oomkes;2105916 said:


> It's ridiculous and irresponsible to regularly burn off 2" of snow with salt.


" tend to lean towards dropping the plows 1st before salting"

That's what I got from what he said, if it's close to 1" I plow, then salt.


----------



## JustJeff

The one I plow is at 2638 N. Pulaski Rd. in Chicago if you want to Google Earth or findlotsize.com it. They allot me two and a half hours of plow time for it. Guess the longest run is only 282 yards. Sure feels a lot longer than that.

P.S. Buff, how do you keep a screenshot like you did of your storage facility?


----------

