# Do I fire him?



## hackitdown (Oct 10, 2007)

I only run 2 pickup trucks with plows, and we plow only residential driveways. One of my customers ( a close neighbor) sent me an email saying that the plow driver is hammering on the truck every time he sees him in the driveway. During the last storm, the driver got the truck stuck in this same customer's driveway. He decided to just gas it and spin the tires for a very long time. The right rear tire spun so long it actually ground through the asphalt, at least 1.5". He was not using chains or studded tires. This is a brand new F350 with factory tires. I have never seen anything like it. It was near the edge of the pavement, the driver's side tire was on the lawn, so he may have thought both tires were spinning on the grass.

This employee is a nice guy, but is always late to work, seems to damage more than his share of equipment, and makes an endless string of poor decisions. I have been putting up with stupidity because we all do stupid stuff from time to time. But this seems different on many levels. He was being destructive.

Opinions?


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Have a talk about the treatment of equipment. Then put him in a car with no plow and a shovel in the trunk.


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

mnglocker;1770525 said:


> Have a talk about the treatment of equipment. Then put him in a car with no plow and a shovel in the trunk.


2x this....


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

You need to know when to stop counseling and when to cut your losses. I had an employee this year that was strong like bull, seemed to have his **** together. All of a sudden he just turned to dog crap. I talked to him time and time again, until I just hired another employee, and let him go. In the end this is business, not a charity organization. You cant allow any employee continuously put your livelihood in danger because he's "a good guy".


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## nixray (Jan 31, 2008)

If you can look past the tardy ness or if he has a darn good reason for being tardy. Write up a hand book of you haven't all ready. Stating misuse/repetitive damage will be deducted from his check. Only you can decide if he is an asset or a$$.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Fire him at the end of season,


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

There's too many guys rolling around in junk equipment !!! 

Post up an ad include a pic of your equipment and you will have your choice of help!!!!

****can his ass!!


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## bigmackmiller (Nov 15, 2011)

If you have to think about it its pry best to send him down the road, I would have a zero tolerance for treatment of my equipment like that


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## snowish10 (Oct 29, 2010)

Im still a rookie 2 years in snow removal, ID say fire him. We have a guy like that always beating up the truck.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

mnglocker;1770525 said:


> Have a talk about the treatment of equipment. Then put him in a car with no plow and a shovel in the trunk.


Agreed!.........


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

If you have to ask yourself that question, then you already know the answer.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Deal with it till season over and the find a replacement first Then let him go.
Unless you know a good replacement now send him down the road.

I had one last year but I couldn't find a replacement in the middle of the snow season. So after season was over I sent him down the road.


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## plownoob (Aug 14, 2008)

1.5" ground asphalt? I call BS on not knowing, anyone that squealed a tire or two knows what that smells like.


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## hackitdown (Oct 10, 2007)

plownoob;1770700 said:


> 1.5" ground asphalt? I call BS on not knowing, anyone that squealed a tire or two knows what that smells like.


That is the thing. I have done my share of burnouts, donuts, drifting, etc, so it is quite clear that whatever he was doing was not working. The other truck is never more than 10 minutes away, and they both have 20' chains for towing. I should take a picture of the divot in the driveway.

I guess I am done with him. The downside is that the next guy may be worse.


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## Glenn Lawn Care (Sep 28, 2009)

I'd get rid of him, especially if he is destructive.


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## B-2 Lawncare (Feb 11, 2012)

A brand new truck, I would send him packing.


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## road2damascus (Apr 26, 2010)

Put up an ad here or anywhere. Then after finding a replacement, if you find a replacement, get rid of him. The longer you keep him, the more opportunity for even worse damage to property, equipment and your reputation!


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## Urdum2 (Dec 31, 2008)

He needs to go, sounds like he isn't going to treat your equipment with care, he needs a different line of work before he breaks something or hurt someone, you got to do what you got to do .....its for the betterment of your business


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## Snow tracker (Jan 31, 2014)

Take a breath and then another. Make sure you have been clear about how you expect him to operate and as long as you have a plan to cover that heavy wet March crap you might get. 
You know what your gut tells you to do. Just be rational and cool


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## blizzardsnow (Feb 3, 2009)

"If you have to ask yourself that question, then you already know the answer." 

Oldschoolpsd is right.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Did you ask him his side?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Hire his replacement asap.
Put him in the truck with this guy to shovel sidewalks and to learn the route, then fire your present employee.


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## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

do you have a picture of the 1.5" deep rut he dug into the asphalt? i gotta see this.

i couldn't even guess how many revolutions of the tire would have to occur and at what speed to create that. if i were you i'd almost be tempted to put a junk set of tires on a beater and let it spin until you went 1.5" deep. 

if that truly did happen, this guy has absoulety no common sense - worse than that, he is a complete moron. no talk will do him any good. does he happen to go by the name "bird"?


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

That's why I said to ask him. That really doesn't sound like a legit story


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## CityGuy (Dec 19, 2008)

mnglocker;1770525 said:


> Have a talk about the treatment of equipment. Then put him in a car with no plow and a shovel in the trunk.


x3...................


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## xjoedirt55x (Dec 11, 2009)

There are 3 sides to the story... The customer's side, the employee's side, and what really happened. Unfortunately this is where you need to decide what really happened. 

Go take a look at the evidence.... Even set him up to run equipment and watch how he works without him knowing you are watching. It may just be a case of the customer flat out not liking him for some reason. I do not know any party involved but it would suck to can him if he truly was not doing what he has been accused of and take food off his table.

All that being said, I can not stand somebody who treats other peoples equipment like crap, so if you find out that he is, indeed abusing equipment, then like the others said.... can him.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Difficult to believe that that type of truck would get stuck in snow, unless it was in 2wd and the plow blade was down against a curb or hunk of iceberg left from previous storms.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Kind of makes me wonder if this guy has an issue with his driveway if this really happened. I mean thinking about it how many tires have you seen a rubber tire dig into asphalt? Especially in the snow.

Think about a burnout box at the race track. Same principle they're wet


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

Nope I've seen tires dig into asphalt,, your there for a few minutes though!!

Check you tube for it probably on there as well!

I'd take the truck over and see if it's the same width myself,!!


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

Tires will eat into asphalt. There's a hill on my shared driveway that has all kinds of divets in it from dumb asses getting their Hondas stuck.


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

This is one of the hardest things about this business is there really isn't a good way to see if a new hire is full of crap or actually a very good plow driver, etc. when you hire them. I have fired a few guys mid season one I even broke my biggest ***** about "big business" & let go right before Christmas....but I couldn't handle him anymore, slow wasted salt, supposed to know how to run a CDL salt truck...had no clue. I am lucky that I have a great group of guys that have been with me a long time....they will call me at a drop of a hat if a new guy isn't cutting it....hell a couple of them told me it was all they could do not to fire new hires themselves. I am fortunate in the respect that we often have multiple crew people on sites, between a shoveler or two, salt truck driver, plow/loaders etc. so I can get multiple opinions from my long time guys. These long time guys know how many times I've stuck my nuts out buying new equipment, updating stuff most guys would have run much longer, buying the latest technology, ect. They hate to see someone pissing away my money.
I've also learned to be very upfront with new guys & tell them "when I call you to see how things are going, I'm not trying to pressure you to hurry up, you need to be truthful with me because I may have other guys wrapping up that can help you out, you may have more snow at your site than I think (lake effect can be spotty), etc. I need to know where I need to send resources, when your going to be ready for salt, etc."


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## hackitdown (Oct 10, 2007)

I know it is hard to believe that someone would do something so stupid, but if you knew this guy as well as I know him, you would not doubt it. He is a good worker when supervised, but if you leave him alone, he makes very bad decisions. One after another until no work gets completed, or something breaks.

The truck has a locking rear axle diff, there is a switch on the dash. He had never used one before (neither had I) so I told him that it can be used to get the truck out from time to time if it gets stuck. But not to use it otherwise. Knowing him, he got stuck and said to himself "Time to use the locking differential!". When the truck didn't become unstuck, and the tires just spun, it would not occur to him to change his strategy. He would just continue doing it because that is what I told him to do if he got stuck. Several minutes would go by before he actually decided that it wasn't working. He is that kind of guy.

I paint a bizarre picture, but I cannot think of any other way it would have happened. He's a dope.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Did you ask him what exactly happened? You know what they say about assuming things


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Found the security camera from the homeowner.


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

grandview;1772384 said:


> Found the security camera from the homeowner.


Good one.

Are you running ballast in the truck? Seems funny that he got stuck with the tires on pavement. Maybe put a bucket of sand and salt mix in the back in case people get stuck. Thats what I do. A little under each tire gets you right out. Saved me more than once


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## hackitdown (Oct 10, 2007)

quigleysiding;1772417 said:


> Good one.
> 
> Are you running ballast in the truck? Seems funny that he got stuck with the tires on pavement. Maybe put a bucket of sand and salt mix in the back in case people get stuck. Thats what I do. A little under each tire gets you right out. Saved me more than once


There is 400 lbs of sand salt mix in 3 bins tied in the back of the truck. he also has 2 shovels.


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

No excuse to be burning the tires off then thats for sure. Not that you should anyway.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

grandview;1772384 said:


> Found the security camera from the homeowner.


no posi...otherwise he prob would have spun into the van


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

nixray;1770553 said:


> If you can look past the tardy ness or if he has a darn good reason for being tardy. Write up a hand book of you haven't all ready. Stating misuse/repetitive damage will be deducted from his check. Only you can decide if he is an asset or a$$.


Taking $ out of an employees paycheck is highly illegal. In fact, it can get you treble (triple) damages and a permanent mark on your record at the AG's office. Some ass **** tried that **** with me once, although it was not for damages, and it was for a handsome sum of money. By the time my lawyer got done with him, he really had wished he hadn't.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

I still don't really believe this. Did you look at the truck tore or even ask your employee what exactly happened?


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

IMHO the economy is too bad right now and there are too many guys looking for work to put up with this kind of stuff. If it were me I would let him go for showing up late regardless of whether he was dogging the truck or not. You might get lucky and replace him with someone who really wants to work.


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## Snow tracker (Jan 31, 2014)

So what have you done so far? Is this guy related to you?


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## oldmankent (Mar 2, 2001)

He's beating the crap out of 50% of your fleet. I'd get rid of him. Actually can't believe you are even asking this and not just canning him with what you mentioned in your opening post.


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## hackitdown (Oct 10, 2007)

Finally met with him today. I owed him some pay from 3 storms we had here two weeks ago. I told him what he did, and that he's all done. He acted like he had no idea that he damaged the truck or the customer's driveway. Unfortunately the truck was in the shop so I couldn't show him the damage. He said if he did any of those things, it wasn't intentional. 

He's either an idiot or a liar (or both). But is it over now.


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## XYZSnowPros (Dec 16, 2010)

hackitdown;1770521 said:


> I only run 2 pickup trucks with plows, and we plow only residential driveways. One of my customers ( a close neighbor) sent me an email saying that the plow driver is hammering on the truck every time he sees him in the driveway. During the last storm, the driver got the truck stuck in this same customer's driveway. He decided to just gas it and spin the tires for a very long time. The right rear tire spun so long it actually ground through the asphalt, at least 1.5". He was not using chains or studded tires. This is a brand new F350 with factory tires. I have never seen anything like it. It was near the edge of the pavement, the driver's side tire was on the lawn, so he may have thought both tires were spinning on the grass.
> 
> This employee is a nice guy, *but is always late to work*, seems to damage more than his share of equipment, and makes an endless string of poor decisions. I have been putting up with stupidity because we all do stupid stuff from time to time. But this seems different on many levels. He was being destructive.
> 
> Opinions?


You did not even have to tell us about the wheel burnout story. The part in bold and underlined from your original post is all you had to say. In my opinion your employee would have been history long ago.


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## 07PSDCREW (Sep 4, 2011)

Me personally, I would do the same as you ended up doing with the guy. I've had a similar problem myself

When I was younger, (18 now 34) I landed a sweet job working for an electrical contracting company. At previous jobs, I had a habit of showing up late, and it transferred with me to my new job. I had it made and all I had to do was show up at a jobsite on-time, work hard and do a good job. This company had a "three strikes your out" policy. They gave me the first time free...then I was late twice from oversleeping. My third strike was a legit reason, I got rearended and it totaled my truck. I hitched a ride to the jobsite and was told I was all done. I tried to plead my case and the super wouldn't have it... It took me to lose an excellent job that I really liked to change my ways. I still see the owner of the company once in a while and every time he sees me, he points to his wrist watch and taps it sarcastically.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

07PSDCREW;1780153 said:


> Me personally, I would do the same as you ended up doing with the guy. I've had a similar problem myself
> 
> When I was younger, (18 now 34) I landed a sweet job working for an electrical contracting company. At previous jobs, I had a habit of showing up late, and it transferred with me to my new job. I had it made and all I had to do was show up at a jobsite on-time, work hard and do a good job. This company had a "three strikes your out" policy. They gave me the first time free...then I was late twice from oversleeping. My third strike was a legit reason, I got rearended and it totaled my truck. I hitched a ride to the jobsite and was told I was all done. I tried to plead my case and the super wouldn't have it... It took me to lose an excellent job that I really liked to change my ways. I still see the owner of the company once in a while and every time he sees me, he points to his wrist watch and taps it sarcastically.


Sounds like he knew he taught you a life lesson. That's a deep story lol


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## Kevin_NJ (Jul 24, 2003)

07PSDCREW;1780153 said:


> My third strike was a legit reason, I got rearended and it totaled my truck. I hitched a ride to the jobsite and was told I was all done.


While this was a severe case it reminds me of what I see at work all the time; people plan to arrive at work just on time, so any delays from traffic, road construction, etc.... causes them to be that much later. I believe that being on time is already late, 15 mins early is on time.


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

I have no sympathy for guys who cant make it on time. I'm there 10-15 min early every day, without fail. If they can't accomplish this most basic of tasks, how can I trust them with anything else?

When I was in the Army, the saying was "If you aren't 10 minutes early, you are late"


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## 07PSDCREW (Sep 4, 2011)

I agree with all 3 of you... Life lesson learned. Now, I'm always 10-15 min early.... 5 min early at the latest.


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