# 20 acres with 3 trucks?



## ZachXSmith (Nov 29, 2009)

Can 3 trucks clear a 20 acre property in 8 hours? 9 foot blades with wings.
3 lots that are about 6.75 acres a piece.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

ZachXSmith;1100594 said:


> Can 3 trucks clear a 20 acre property in 8 hours? 9 foot blades with wings.
> 3 lots that are about 6.75 acres a piece.


Thats a lot of snow. I would say you would make a good dent in it in 8hrs.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

How much snow? How far are the pushes? In a perfect world you could do 2" but if you get a heavy wet snow your screwed.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

I agree with Dave. You should be able to do an acre an hour on average........but be prepared for the above average snows, and we don't know if they're average lots.


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## vinces designs (Nov 5, 2009)

why would'nt you find a sub with a loader or skidder to help? can you rent a piece it will save you a load of time.


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## ZachXSmith (Nov 29, 2009)

I dont think 3 6-7 acre lots justify a loader, Maybe a skid steer. ive done a 15 acre mall with 3 trucks no problem. I may hire a loader just for stacking.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

It can be done, but you're a hairs breath away from failure with any real snow depth.

Silly not to consider loaders.


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## vinces designs (Nov 5, 2009)

payupit has nothing to do with capability its all about efficency, A back hoe with pushe rbox will out plow any truck, Which allows you to move on to other accounts and during heavy snow falls the hoe can run around to lots and hog out ofr trucks which will allow you to finish on time and be the super hero


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

i agree with others, once you start getting into this large of accounts, it is time to look at a loader, a skidsteer well help with the stacking and stuff, but a loader (or even a backhoe) well be so much more efficient. What happens when one of those trucks breaks down? IMO small trucks aren't meant for that kind of work, kind of like taking a kubota sub compact tractor/backhoe to dig out a basement for a house


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

ZachXSmith;1100594 said:


> Can 3 trucks clear a 20 acre property in 8 hours? 9 foot blades with wings.
> 3 lots that are about 6.75 acres a piece.


What kind of expectations doe's the customer have....I disagree that a 6 acre site doe's not warrant a loader...Have you ever serviced accounts this large....You have to Think of the most efficient way possible to service these accounts in order to satisfy the customer......JMO and i am Very Clueless...


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

I don't think it justifies a loader at all, although it would be convenient, and only if they're literally one next to the other. 6 acres isn't as big as some of you guys make it sound. The year before last I subbed a 12 ac lot with trucks only and we did it quite efficiantly. 4 trucks in 4 hours give or take.

It's nearly impossible for us to advise without a view of the lot.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

got-h2o;1101044 said:


> I don't think it justifies a loader at all, although it would be convenient, and only if they're literally one next to the other. 6 acres isn't as big as some of you guys make it sound. The year before last I subbed a 12 ac lot with trucks only and we did it quite efficiantly. 4 trucks in 4 hours give or take.
> 
> It's nearly impossible for us to advise without a view of the lot.


Nobody is saying it can't be done...Is it the most efficient way..No...Like TCLA and a few others have said..A good storm and you might find yourself in trouble....I think the OP is looking for people to tell him its OK....So...Its OK...Go for it.....


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## ZachXSmith (Nov 29, 2009)

Matson Snow;1101054 said:


> Nobody is saying it can't be done...Is it the most efficient way..No...Like TCLA and a few others have said..A good storm and you might find yourself in trouble....I think the OP is looking for people to tell him its OK....So...Its OK...Go for it.....


Maybe...LOL.

Like i said I've done many large accounts in the past, I was just wanting opinions. Which this site is full of, And I thank you for all of them. I can post pictures. The problem is I have another 4 acre lot about 20 minutes away from that one and another 7 acre lot about 15 minutes away. So I was gonna assign two trucks to do the 4 acre lot and the 7 acre and send my other 3 to the 20 acre site.


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## JohnRoscoe (Sep 27, 2010)

Wow, I bet you don't get much sleep when it snows! That's abt. the most I'v heard of without a pusher. I can see how it would work in an average snow, but if you had more than 4" on the ground at once, that could get ugly!


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

It's up to you - I hate spreading myself too thin. 

I might be a skeptic - but I have a Plan B and Plan C in place. Nothing sucks more than freaking out trying to get it all done. Been there once and don't want to go back to it - not good for anyone's health!!

You in LE country?


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

ZachXSmith;1100594 said:


> Can 3 trucks clear a 20 acre property in 8 hours? 9 foot blades with wings.
> 3 lots that are about 6.75 acres a piece.


When its snowing hard, commercial clients want you on the spot plowing until the storm is over. Then salt! Theres absolutely no waiting until the snow has accumulated 5cm or anything past that If a truck or two breaks down ( like a tie rod or power steering hose) your done until the next morning! Sure you can rely on others....as soon as they get their snow done first tho 

Loaders, backhoes & tractor pushers are the way to go for 20 acres


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

What do 3 6.75 acre lots like? Do they have islands? Curbs? Are there going to be cars in it 24/7? Are there light posts that'll you'll have to watch when backing up a loader (someone on here hit one)(can't recall who it is).


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Matson Snow;1101054 said:


> Nobody is saying it can't be done...Is it the most efficient way..No...Like TCLA and a few others have said..A good storm and you might find yourself in trouble....I think the OP is looking for people to tell him its OK....So...Its OK...Go for it.....


Isn't that a majority of the questions on this site? :laughing:


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

got-h2o;1101044 said:


> I don't think it justifies a loader at all, although it would be convenient, and only if they're literally one next to the other. 6 acres isn't as big as some of you guys make it sound. The year before last I subbed a 12 ac lot with trucks only and we did it quite efficiantly. 4 trucks in 4 hours give or take.
> 
> It's nearly impossible for us to advise without a view of the lot.


Just curious...What do you feel your 4 trucks are worth for 4 hours each to clear that lot on a seasonal price? How do you feel it compares to a single loader with proper attatchments doing the same amount of work as four trucks? (Lets assume a single loader with the right operator and proper QA pushers and blades could do the same work as your four trucks) ....With Trucks you have the wages of four men, The cost of insurance on four vehicles and cost of four seperate fuel bills? As well as the cost of ownership of four trucks and their maintence. Just wanted to hear your thoughts?

In comparison to a single loader...one cheaper insurance, one wage, one payment,one fuel bill and the ability to move heavy accumlations of snow with no problems? Do you think the trucks are cheaper and more efficient?


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

creativedesigns;1101101 said:


> When its snowing hard, commercial clients want you on the spot plowing until the storm is over. Then salt! Theres absolutely no waiting until the snow has accumulated 5cm or anything past that If a truck or two breaks down ( like a tie rod or power steering hose) your done until the next morning! Sure you can rely on others....as soon as they get their snow done first tho
> 
> Loaders, backhoes & tractor pushers are the way to go for 20 acres


I agree particularly on 30+cm (12") of snow accumulation. The big iron doesn't slow down or care. JMHO


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

ZachXSmith;1100594 said:


> Can 3 trucks clear a 20 acre property in 8 hours? 9 foot blades with wings.
> 3 lots that are about 6.75 acres a piece.


To be simple and to the point...on 2" sure!! On 6-8 " wet and heavy..nope your screwed.:crying:


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

I wouldn't take them on with trucks either. Usually you loose business in winter due to poor service.
At least a tractor or backhoe along with a truck or two.


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## tjlands (Sep 29, 2005)

vinces designs;1100952 said:


> payupit has nothing to do with capability its all about efficency, A back hoe with pushe rbox will out plow any truck, Which allows you to move on to other accounts and during heavy snow falls the hoe can run around to lots and hog out ofr trucks which will allow you to finish on time and be the super hero


I disagree
A back hoe with a pusher box and a decent operator will out plow any 2 trucks.......


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## vamootsman (Oct 5, 2008)

No problem with 3 trucks. We do 14 acres on one site, 3 different lots, with 2, 3/4 ton trucks and were on site for a max of 12-13 hours total (between 2 trucks) with up to 8 inches of snow, and one of the guys had never plowed before. V-plow for the lanes, Straight Blade for windrowing the lots. A loader will be faster and more efficient for sure, as it was when we called one in for an emergency, but It can definitely be done with the 3 trucks, and if you bid it rights should make good money.


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

what if the loader goes down? there's a plan B i hope


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

DellDoug;1101493 said:


> Just curious...What do you feel your 4 trucks are worth for 4 hours each to clear that lot on a seasonal price? How do you feel it compares to a single loader with proper attatchments doing the same amount of work as four trucks? (Lets assume a single loader with the right operator and proper QA pushers and blades could do the same work as your four trucks) ....With Trucks you have the wages of four men, The cost of insurance on four vehicles and cost of four seperate fuel bills? As well as the cost of ownership of four trucks and their maintence. Just wanted to hear your thoughts?
> 
> In comparison to a single loader...one cheaper insurance, one wage, one payment,one fuel bill and the ability to move heavy accumlations of snow with no problems? Do you think the trucks are cheaper and more efficient?


if he owns the trucks but has to rent a loader and buy a pusher i would guess the trucks might be cheaper or equal


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

xtreem3d;1102037 said:


> what if the loader goes down? there's a plan B i hope


garden trowls 

but he could use those three trucks


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

xtreem3d;1102037 said:


> what if the loader goes down? there's a plan B i hope


If you do proper maintence and buy a good machine ($$ 60-100K) and quality pusher Sectional or horst your likelihood of a break down is very very unlikely. You will also plow 20 acres in about 4 hours with the proper set up. I know the loader seems expensive but what do three trucks with blades cost? Last time I looked they were not cheap either.


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

DellDoug;1102084 said:


> If you do proper maintence and buy a good machine ($$ 60-100K) and quality pusher Sectional or horst your likelihood of a break down is very very unlikely. You will also plow 20 acres in about 4 hours with the proper set up. I know the loader seems expensive but what do three trucks with blades cost? Last time I looked they were not cheap either.


Just like a truck, you can use a loader year round for mulch or dirt or w/e.


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

xtreem3d;1102041 said:


> if he owns the trucks but has to rent a loader and buy a pusher i would guess the trucks might be cheaper or equal


You can view it many different ways...maybe buy the loader and find something else for your trucks to plow? Maybe sub your trucks out? maybe sell a truck or two? There is 100 different ways to look at a project. nobody has the right solution...only opinions. What works for one person does not neccessarily suit everyone else.


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## ZachXSmith (Nov 29, 2009)

Monday Morning I'm going to look at gmc6500's and ford F650's and a backhoe. My company is growing fast and I was just hesitating on making the plung into this heavy equipment. Alot of money but worth it, the thought of losing clients to lowballers after I invest 100k in equipment scares me. Nothing risked, Nothing Gained.


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

vamootsman;1102029 said:


> No problem with 3 trucks. We do 14 acres on one site, 3 different lots, with 2, 3/4 ton trucks and were on site for a max of 12-13 hours total (between 2 trucks) with up to 8 inches of snow, and one of the guys had never plowed before. V-plow for the lanes, Straight Blade for windrowing the lots. A loader will be faster and more efficient for sure, as it was when we called one in for an emergency, but It can definitely be done with the 3 trucks, and if you bid it rights should make good money.


Depends upon where you have to pile it. We do a fed ex depo and all the snow has to piled about 2000ft- 2500ft away in one single pile and then removed after each storm. It is only a 26 acre property but that is one long push around islands and trailers and around corners. I do not think three trucks could push that depo with 8 inches of heavy snow. JMHO!! tymusic


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

ZachXSmith;1102097 said:


> Monday Morning I'm going to look at gmc6500's and ford F650's and a backhoe. My company is growing fast and I was just hesitating on making the plung into this heavy equipment. Alot of money but worth it, the thought of losing clients to lowballers after I invest 100k in equipment scares me. Nothing risked, Nothing Gained.


If you do the job well you will get larger and larger projects where lowballers can't touch you. Good luck!! tymusic


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## ZachXSmith (Nov 29, 2009)

Can I move loaders from site to site easily?


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## vamootsman (Oct 5, 2008)

ZachXSmith;1100594 said:


> Can 3 trucks clear a 20 acre property in 8 hours? 9 foot blades with wings.
> 3 lots that are about 6.75 acres a piece.


The OP's question is can it be done with said equipment? Yes it can. It may suck if it takes all 8 hours, but it can be done. If bid properly, it will make money too. Somedays more money than others, but thats the nature of the beast. I'd go for it. Buy bigger stuff next year if all goes well.


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

ZachXSmith;1102101 said:


> Can I move loaders from site to site easily?


I know a new case loader travels at a little over 20mph....1/2hour is quite a distance. We drive from site to site with no issues as long as the machine is operated in a safe manner.


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

vamootsman;1102102 said:


> The OP's question is can it be done with said equipment? Yes it can. It may suck if it takes all 8 hours, but it can be done. If bid properly, it will make money too. Somedays more money than others, but thats the nature of the beast. I'd go for it. Buy bigger stuff next year if all goes well.


ZachXSmith is the original poster of this thread.


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## vamootsman (Oct 5, 2008)

DellDoug;1102098 said:


> Depends upon where you have to pile it. We do a fed ex depo and all the snow has to piled about 2000ft- 2500ft away in one single pile and then removed after each storm. It is only a 26 acre property but that is one long push around islands and trailers and around corners. I do not think three trucks could push that depo with 8 inches of heavy snow. JMHO!! tymusic


Very true. More details on the site would help for sure. We pile it around about 16 different Islands between the lots, so it's pretty convenient.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

i want to chime in on the type of loader you need too. There are many great deals on loaders out there, what many people seem to forget about loaders and snow removal, you aren't working that loader to the capacity it is designed for. Find yourself a good used piece of equipment, (taking a guess at something around $20 000- 40 000, expect to spend another couple thousand on maintenance, go throught the loader thoroughly. when you start getting to the size of DellDougs operation, you can start to worry about new expensive equipment.


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

No matter how you slice the pie it is hard to beat loaders for larger projects where power, speed and reliabiility are the priorites.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

DellDoug;1102509 said:


> No matter how you slice the pie it is hard to beat loaders for larger projects where power, speed and reliabiility are the priorites.


And you intend on having the job for years to come.


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

DellDoug;1102090 said:


> You can view it many different ways...maybe buy the loader and find something else for your trucks to plow? Maybe sub your trucks out? maybe sell a truck or two? There is 100 different ways to look at a project. nobody has the right solution...only opinions. What works for one person does not neccessarily suit everyone else.


good points doug, all very true ....i have 2 places big enough for a loader but i use my skid loaders instead. i'm not convinced that 1 loader is better than 2 or 3 skids. i am pushing 30-36 feet wide, i have some sort of backup if one goes down and i can transport them myself and use them all year. i can take off the pusher and go around all the island curbs to clean up fairly fast. the avg cost of my skids is probably $14,000.00. not sure how that compares to rental or purchase of a loader and pusher?


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

xtreem3d;1102971 said:


> good points doug, all very true ....i have 2 places big enough for a loader but i use my skid loaders instead. i'm not convinced that 1 loader is better than 2 or 3 skids. i am pushing 30-36 feet wide, i have some sort of backup if one goes down and i can transport them myself and use them all year. i can take off the pusher and go around all the island curbs to clean up fairly fast. the avg cost of my skids is probably $14,000.00. not sure how that compares to rental or purchase of a loader and pusher?


Everyones situation and reasoning is different. Nobody has the final say on what is right and wrong. If the skids are making you money and your happy and comfortable that is all that matters. But do check costs all the time. Sometimes what seems like a good deal isn't and for little or no money or even a savings a change can be made that is a better option. I work on this aspect constantly. Good luck this winter. tymusic


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## lmenterprises (Oct 29, 2010)

DellDoug;1101493 said:


> Just curious...What do you feel your 4 trucks are worth for 4 hours each to clear that lot on a seasonal price? How do you feel it compares to a single loader with proper attatchments doing the same amount of work as four trucks? (Lets assume a single loader with the right operator and proper QA pushers and blades could do the same work as your four trucks) ....With Trucks you have the wages of four men, The cost of insurance on four vehicles and cost of four seperate fuel bills? As well as the cost of ownership of four trucks and their maintence. Just wanted to hear your thoughts?
> 
> In comparison to a single loader...one cheaper insurance, one wage, one payment,one fuel bill and the ability to move heavy accumlations of snow with no problems? Do you think the trucks are cheaper and more efficient?


I agree 100% with this guy. 1 loader equals 2 trucks (and then some)....more effient with machine over pickups.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

OMG is this thread still going prsport


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## lmenterprises (Oct 29, 2010)

Brian Young;1103860 said:


> OMG is this thread still going prsport


Yeah, my apologies, didnt realize the date and time stamps on the thread...sorry:waving:


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

lmenterprises;1103866 said:


> Yeah, my apologies, didnt realize the date and time stamps on the thread...sorry:waving:


I was joking of course. It seems some threads get beat to death and some of the more informative, good ones only get a few responses. IDK.


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

Brian Young;1103860 said:


> OMG is this thread still going prsport


If it wasn't dead you certainly killed it now. Did you find a door for your dresser?


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Wayne Volz;1107868 said:


> If you want to have some information to figure this out on your own, check this out and see if it makes sense.
> 
> Snow & Ice Management Bidding Package Includes:
> 
> ...


Must you post this on every thread! Just make a new post and ask the mods to make it a sticky.


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

ajslands;1107872 said:


> Must you post this on every thread! Just make a new post and ask the mods to make it a sticky.


better be good! Just ordered one


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Cedar Grounds;1108088 said:


> better be good! Just ordered one


Good! After you've studied the CD videos, you can then go out & bid on 3 Walmarts!


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

creativedesigns;1108096 said:


> Good! After you've studied the CD videos, you can then go out & bid on 3 Walmarts!


 just interested to see what "others" come up with and see if I can optimize what I already got. Why re-invent the wheel? I know there is a huge difference from going left to right with your truck versus right to left. Took me about 2 years to figure that out :laughing:


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