# Tranny Fluid issue...............



## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Friend is changing the tranny fluid in his F150; and the filter; and he takes the pan off and changes the filter; and put the pan back on and dumps in 4 qts of "Mercon III" into it and starts it up lets it idle for 2-3 mins; and then when they try to back it out of the garage; it starts slipping some in REV .
The transmission has 45K miles on it; and has NEVER slipped before; or had ANY issues.
He sends his wife 50 miles away for 14 quarts of "Mercon V"; which he now finds out it is soposed to have in it. He then trys to drain out the torque converter so he can change all that fluid out....................... it has NO drain plug in it so that is NOT a possibility.
He calls me and I had no idea that the fluid could INSTANTLY make it slip . He pushes it back into the garage and now wonders if he dumps 5 more in it that is the correct fluid if it will be safe to drive it or will it have to be towed 50 miles one way to a garage that has a transmission pump [couple hundred dollars minimum] or by deluting it that much be safe to drive it to one or WTF ?????? I am assuming he has not hurt anything yet but certainly dont know that for sure .............. Any comments or help greatly appreaciated!


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## Jacobsmovinsnow (Jan 12, 2011)

Did he only put 4 quarts into it. Is that the correct total


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Well when he took the pan down he lost approximately 4qts of the original fluid so he added 4 new quarts of what he now knows is the incorrect type of Mercon fluid . He added III and it takes V . The 4 qts filled it back up to the top mark on the dipstick. So he nows has approx 9 qts of the original oil in the system and 4qts of the wrong oil................... so he has taken the pan back off and is waiting for the new Mercon V to put back in but he has NO IDEA how much that first 4 qts of the wrong stuff has blended with the original [correct] fluid so I guess it has some percentage of the wrong stuff in there 
10% or 15% 20% we have no way of knowing . I should have mentioned that he also has no idea if it needs to just be run longer ??? If it may have had air in the system ???? If its just the fact he added the incorrect fluid????? He just called me and told me that when he went to put it back into the garage it drove right in and he held the brake and it seamed very positive in DRIVE but when he put it in Rev it again seamed soft????
The transmission worked perfectly before he changed the filter earlier this afternoon...........wTf


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## Jacobsmovinsnow (Jan 12, 2011)

this may be bs but I know some oldtimers when they changed the tranny fluid, would clean the crap out of the pan and change the filter and put a half half mixture of old and new in. The reason it was easier on the clutch pack. However I know that this here is not the real issue. But is there that much difference between 3 and 5.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

I've always heard that you aren't supposed to mix the fluids. It could be the issue, but I'm no expert.

If it were me, and I had that issue, I would take it to a lube shop and spend the money to flush the system with new, correct, fluid. That would be the cheapest route to start before dropping the tranny and having it inspected.

What year is the truck and how many miles does it have on it already?


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## RacingZR (Nov 14, 2009)

Using the wrong Mercon in Fords will lead to big problems but I can't believe it would be noticeable that quick. It's all mixed together anyhow.
Do a search for "tranny fluid exchange". There are several write-ups on here, mostly for Chevy as I recall but I used the same procedure for my Dodge to get the old fluid out........or most of the old fluid. That might be his best, 14 new quarts.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

*tranny fluid*

White Gardens,
There is no cheap way to do this as from his location he is looking at a $200 plus for towing and they are quoting him $311 for a total flush out and new fluid at the closest garage that has a tranny pump ......................
It is a 2005 F150 with 44,000 total miles . Totally babied truck and has NEVER had any tranny issues . He just wanted to change the filter........................ 
I read on a Ford site this evening that Mercon III is regular oil; and V is a synthetic blend; and has different friction additives in it................ but dont know if that is true or not.
This truck has only been moved ONE truck lenght since he dumped the III in there by mistake. I am hoping a mechanic will see this post; and jump in here; and give us some ideas; as at this point he really had NO idea if it is even associated with the fluid as another friend claims it could be just air bound ????? I called a part timer mechanic I know and he isnt a tranny expert but claims he read somewhere that if you ever dump in the wrong fluid to just drain it out and dump in 4 qts and run it 50 miles and drain it again and dump in 4 more run it 50 miles and do it again and the percentage of the wrong stuff would then be so small it could not be an issue...............


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

$550 for a tranny flush or $2500 for new transmission.

That's why I say it's cheaper. Yes it's not cheap anyway you slice it, but it sure beats spending the dough on a new tranny.


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

What tranny is it, 4R100? There is a procedure to drain and fill which will also drain the converter. I'll see if I can dig it up. Put the pan back on, you'll need a bucket, I'll be right back,...


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## RacingZR (Nov 14, 2009)

FisherV, what you are describing by driving 50 miles and draining out 4 qts. at a time is the same idea as an exchange......getting the old fluid out. Any time the vehicle is running and NOT in park, the tranny is pumping fluid. It is on Dodges at least, I am assuming it is the same for Fords. So the fluid may be mixed.
I can't see how it would be air bound from dropping the pan and replacing the 4 quarts?


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

Here's a version of how to drain and refill







4R100 Transmission Fluid Change 


\\Figured I would share this with ya'll since I had been asking questions.....I just finished changing the fluid. Was not a hard job at all. I followed the FTE procedure provided by Mark Kovalsky. 
I found that my 2002 did not have a drain plug on the torque converter. I removed the rubber plug to look for one out of curiosity and had a second person bump the engine and Mark was right, there is not one on this model. 
So, I drained the fluid out of the pan, removed the pan, cleaned the pan/gasket surfaces, removed the filter and replaced with a new one from Ford. 
I have to say that the magnet in the pan does a very good job of holding the metal particles. The amount I found was expected and you could not tell it was metal unless looking at it in sunlight. It was like extremely fine glitter. 
I took the filter apart to inspect it out of curiosity. Hit it with a hammer and it split apart easily. 
The filter was dirty enough to warrant a change. Truck has 28,000 miles on it. There was some yellow paint particles (very small) in the filter, likely from parts that were marked by the factory. 
I replaced the pan/gasket and torqued the bolts per the Haynes manual with my Harbor Freight 1/4" torque wrench ($27) and a good investment! 

I measured the fluid that was removed in each scenario. 
Draining the fluid from the pan was 7 quarts exactly. 
I refilled with 7 quarts. 
Disconnected the rear cooler line from the transmission, slid a 3/8" ID clear vinyl hose over the flange. Didn't need to clamp it since it was a good tight fit. Ran the hose to a bucket and used a small woodshop clamp to hold the hose in the bucket. 
Started the engine and the fluid pumped into the bucket. When I saw airbubbles start, turned off the engine. 
Measured the fluid pumped out.....5 quarts exactly. 
Replaced 5 quarts, started engine, pumped out till bubbles. 
Replaced 5 quarts, started engine, pumped out till bubbles. 
Replaced 5 quarts, started engine, pumped out till bubbles. 
Replaced 5 quarts, started engine, moved shifter through gears for a few minutes, checked level, looked like it needed about 1/2 quart, added 1/2 and then drove down the highway, came home checked fluid level again, all is good and on the full mark. 
I bought two cases of fluid, had 1-1/2 quarts left over, so I went through 22-1/2 quarts. 
Not bad and do recommend the filter change since it is not hard to change. 
$30 for filter from ford (didn't need gasket since the original is re-useable. 
2 cases of Shell Fluid from BJ's was $25. 
Total $55 for doing this myself is better than $2-300 depending upon where you take it. 
This did not take in consideration other materials, such as a bucket with graduated marks for measuring quarts from Lowes for $3, 3/8" vinyl hose (20') came in a pre-cut length for I think was about $3, and some rags and mineral spirits to clean up with. I blew out my vinyl hose with a little mineral spirts and compressed air and put in my bucket, ready for the next change at 60,000 miles. 
Double checked for leaks, all is dry after another run down the road at highway speeds. 

One thing to mention is you need a good funnel to hang under the hood with a hose to reach the dipstick tube to make it easier. It takes a while to put in 5-7 quarts at a time. 

I have great confidence now that I did this change on my own. No one was under my truck screwing something up like cross threading the drain plug, not cleaning the gasket surfaces, inspecting anything that doesn't look right, etc. 
Thanks to Mark's article and this site for providing this type of information so we can do such things with confidence and keeps us from doing something wrong! 

__________________
2002 6.8L V10 4X4 Excursion Limited: Mods:


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## RacingZR (Nov 14, 2009)

Good post........that's the way to do a fluid exchange. Easier with 2 people.


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## damian (Jan 29, 2009)

the fluid is not your problem,you either did not fill the trans to the proper level,or you did not install the filter and o-ring correctly,could have the wrong filter as well.that transmission circulates cooler fluid in park,thats why fluid is checked idling in park.incorrect fluid may make clutches chatter,grab,or other adverse coupling characteristics,or more than likely you wont notice a thing.any oil that has sae marking on it is compatible with any other sae oil.this does not mean it is correct,it means it wont make an adverse reaction and damage your trans. good luck.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Hummmmmmmmm that is an interesting idea! I will call him in the morning and suggest that as I think he usually turns in around 9pm .............. he ordered 14 qts thinking he could just drain the torque converter ....................... so we will have 14 qts to play with seams like if we kept pumping the other junk out that what was left that wasnt 100% Mercon V would be so small a percentage it really wouldnt matter too much at that point ????? He has already drained out the 1st 4 qts of the contaminated stuff and was still waiting for his wife to arrive with the new Mercon V so I wonder if before he ever puts ANY of it in if we should try to pump out all we can till we get air bubles and then add what we can on this first go around????? 
Thanks a million for the help and posts as it all helps! I will check this later if anyone thinks of any more good ideas !


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## damian (Jan 29, 2009)

if you are stuck on draining all or most of your oil,drop the pan,remove the filter and get a blow gun and make it fit the inlet where the filter fit,blow into it and have someone go r n d 3 21 a few times.with a bit of patience you will get all but a quart or so out of it in about 10 mins.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Ford Fisherman,
I believe he thinks it is a 4R70 tranny ................... and he only got a little more than 4 quarts ever time he drops the pan ?????? So since it is now sitting with the pan empty he can add 4 qts for sure but this idea of pumping out 3-4 more quarts thru the cooler lines may have some merit as that would get rid of 7 quarts of contaminate fluid so when he dumps in 7 new quarts and mixs it with 7 quarts that have some percentage of Mercon 3 in it lets guess that contaminated stuff is 50/50 then right then it should only have a couple of quarts max of contaminated fluid. So maybe if he pumps out another 3-4 qts and adds that of Mercon V what little bit that would be left in there that isnt 100% V would be such a small amount it really couldnt be much at that point.........................
Thanks very much for trying to help 
Damian, I asked him if there was any chance the he didnt get the filter on correctly and he thinks it is on right....................... I am NOT sure the tranny was up to temperture when he checked it; as it was only 10 above Zero here today and he says he only ran it a few minutes and checked it in PARK [someone since told him it has to be checked in NEUTRAL ??????? So maybe it was just LOW?????


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Gosh there is another great idea Damian .................. at this point we can do anything to try to get it all outta there............... but I too am thinking that this small amount of wrong type of fluid wouldnt cause it to slip imeadiately ????? And why did it then after he put it in Drive go perfectly back into the garage without slipping at all???? I am wondering if it may have been just tooooo low .................


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## JerseySnow (Feb 3, 2011)

I have gotten the wrong filter from napa autozone etc and they swear is the right one .now i go to the dealer for trans filters


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## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

I will never have a tranny flushed again. I had one done on an S-10 that never had a problem, and within 500 miles, the tranny was laying in pieces. Talked to a couple of mechanics, and they say when a tranny is back flushed, it loosens up all the clutch dust, and is almost a sure thing to plug the new filter up within 1000 miles. As soon as the filter is plugged, thats when all the fun happens inside the tranny, which in turn causes all the little pieces to be laying in your pan. The only right way to do it is drain the entire system including the torque converter, change the filter, install a new pan gasket, and fill with new fluid.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Well hopefully that is exactly what we will accomplish this morning as I am going up to help him with this and we will do an exchange with the 14 qts that he has there . I am hoping that at that point the amount of Mercon 3 that would still be in the mixture is so small it would not be an issue . The tranny fluid that I saw coming out of it when he droped the pan was by no way dark or nasty in any way . 
It was about a light maroon in color and smelled great with NO burned smell at all. The original filter that you can look right into the back side had a white felt like material they use to pass the fluid thru it and it appeared to be very free of anything................ looked like it was fine for another 45K but who knows???? The magnet showed about a 1/2 teaspoon of sludgy dust and was made of of particles so small they would go right thru a paint filter but probably not thru a coffee filter so more like a very very fine metal "dust" and I am assuming that a 1/2 teaspoon would probably be normal for a 45K tranny that has never had the fluid changed??
Thanks to everyone for trying to help as it was great to hear all the ideas when you live so far back in the woods and its a Friday nite and everything is closed !!! Its neat how the internet; can bring you so much information so fast! 
Special Thanks to "Ford Fisherman" for posting the exchange procedure for us ! .


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## damian (Jan 29, 2009)

reverse in all automatics that i have worked on requires more pressure to hold,this is the function of the reverse boost valve or the ecm increasing the duty cycle of the line pressure solenoid.manual low and increased throttle are a few of many instances where line pressure increases. drive idle line pressure could be 60psi,reverse idle line could be 160psi,if you have a pressure problem you will notice it more in reverse.


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

happy to help


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

First I don't see how it would be slipping that fast. Second just pull the cooler line off put a chunk of hose over it and put into a pan, start the truck and have one person in the truck slowly go through all the gears and have another person refilling the tranny as it pumps it out. As someone already said check to make sure the filter is the right one and did the old seal ring come out with the old filter.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

HERE IS THE UPDATE> 
After hours of screwing around with it we have gotten nowhere...................... we have had the pan off twice today making dam sure the filter is exactly the same and it is ............. To answer the question about the old filter when we pulled the pan the first time the filter came right down with the pan and the little rubber sleave that holds it up into the tranny stayed in that hole so we just pulled it down with our fingers . The new filter is installed correctly and the rubber boot on the new ones is soft and flexable and I did notice the old sleave was harder after 45K of driving on it.
When we pulled the return lines the tranny pumps like crazy and we did the exchange no problem and I thought we were outta the woods. Let it down off the ramps and it would just barely pull itself out the door and then stoped compleatly ??????????? Now it will not offer to move in REV . We drove it around in Drive and it works fantastic and shows NO SIGNS of wanting to slip going forward but Reverse is NON EXiSTENT; so I am really lost on this as I really feel it is just tooooooooo much of a streach to think that it broke a band just as he pulled it into the garage or that the reverse band was only holding by a thread and by just changing the fluid it finally gave up the ghost ........... if anyone knows anything we are all ears?????????????
\


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

Is this a plow truck? Any leaks when hot? Check the tranny housing for cracks.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Yes it is a plow truck ; no leaks at all anywhere, dont see any cracks anywhere. Tranny has NEVER had any issues EVER until he droped the pan down !!!!! Never worked better going forward and just like it was UNHOOKED in Rev????? Crazyest thing I have ever seen in my life ????? Just seams to be no known explaination for this???


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## Milwaukee (Dec 28, 2007)

Did he purge in Neutral first?

On my Former 01 F250 SD with 200K miles. Change whole oil and filter. Then put about 1 gal then put in Neutral and let run. Check level then put more oil until it level.

Then I shift to P though 1 then P. Do for few times to get air out valve body.

Then drive on road under 15 mph then after it fine.


On my 94 Explorer that was nasty. Found out that it doesn't have torque converter drain so I put together and fresh oil then unplug cooler hose and pump for 5 sec then turn off and refill until it level then do for couples times until you start see fresh red instead dark red or light brown.

7K miles and still go expect 1 to 2 it shift quick.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Well we didnt really purge anything ?????? We just basically did the fluid exchange and the truck now runs flawlessly in DRIVE . Shifts perfectly and has NO issues with slippage in anyway ................ but put it into Rev and it has NOTHING just like there was no band in there..............?????? And when he drove it in there yesterday before the filter change you could pull a mountain with it in Reverse ?????
WTF


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm no expert, but sounds like a clutch pack or band issue. Not sure if its more than coincidental happening with the fluid change...?


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

This is all I could find....

Here is what ford says.

Engagement Concern: No Reverse Possible Component Reference/Action 
202 - ELECTRICAL ROUTINE 
· No Electrical Concerns

302 - HYDRAULIC/MECHANICAL ROUTINE 
Fluid 
· Incorrect level
· Adjust fluid to correct level.

· Condition
· Inspect the condition of the fluid. Carry out Check Fluid Level and Condition Check; refer to Preliminary Inspection in this section.

Shift Linkage 
· Damaged or incorrectly adjusted
· Inspect and repair as required. Verify transmission shift cable adjustment; refer to Section 307-05. Adjust transmission shift cable as necessary. After repairing transmission shift cable, verify that the digital TR sensor is correctly adjusted. Adjust the digital TR sensor as necessary.

Incorrect Pressures 
· Low reverse clutch pressure, low reverse band pressure, low line pressure
· Check pressure at line pressure tap; refer to Special Testing Procedures in this section for specification. If pressures are low, check the following components: oil filter and seal assembly, main controls, reverse servo, pump assembly, reverse clutch assembly.

Fluid Filter and Seal Assembly 
· Plugged, damaged
· Install a new filter and seal assembly.

Main Controls 
· No. 6 shuttle ball, manual valve, main regulator valve, 1-2 accumulator seals stuck or damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

· Loose bolts
· Tighten bolts to specifications.

· Gasket damaged
· Inspect for damage and install a new gasket.

Low/Reverse Servo 
· Seals (piston and cover) damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

· Servo cover retaining ring damaged

· Anchor pins (case) damaged

Pump Assembly 
· Loose bolts
· Tighten bolts to specifications.

· Porosity/cross leaks/ball missing or leaking, plugged hole
· Inspect pump assembly. Install new as required.

· Gasket damaged
· Inspect for damage and install a new gasket.

· No. 1 and 2 seal rings damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

Reverse Clutch Assembly 
· Seals, piston damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

· Check ball missing or damaged

· Friction elements damaged or worn

Low/Reverse Band 
· Band, servo, anchor pins damaged or worn
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.






Shift Concerns: 3-4 Shift (Automatic) Possible Component Reference/Action 
222 - ELECTRICAL ROUTINE 
Powertrain Control System 
· Electrical inputs/outputs, vehicle wiring harnesses, PCM, shift solenoids, OSS, transmission control switch (TCS)
· Carry out Self-Test. Refer to the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual for diagnosis and testing of the Powertrain Control System. Go To Pinpoint Test A or Go To Pinpoint Test E. Repair as required. Clear DTCs, road test and repeat Self-Test.

· Engine driveability concerns
· Refer to Routine 253.

322 - HYDRAULIC/MECHANICAL ROUTINE 
Shift Linkage, Digital TR Sensor 
· Damaged or incorrectly adjusted
· Inspect and repair as required. Verify transmission shift cable adjustment; refer to Section 307-05. Adjust transmission shift cable as necessary. After repairing transmission shift cable, verify that the digital TR sensor is correctly adjusted. Adjust the digital TR sensor as necessary.

Incorrect Pressures 
· Forward clutch pressure, direct clutch pressure, line pressure
· Check line, direct and forward clutch pressures at appropriate taps; refer to Special Testing Procedures in this section for specification. If pressures are out of specification, check main controls.

Main Controls 
· 3-4 shift valve, solenoid pressure regulator valve, OD servo regulator, 3-4 capacity modulator valve, 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves stuck, damaged or assembled incorrectly
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

· Bolts not tightened to specifications
· Tighten bolts to specifications.

· SSA or SSB malfunction
· Activate solenoid using scan tool. If solenoid operation cannot be felt when placing hand on solenoid, install a new solenoid. Inspect O-rings for damage. Repair as required.

· Gaskets damaged
· Inspect for damage and install a new gasket.

· OD servo rod and piston cushion spring or seals damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

· Worn or damaged OD servo anchor pins
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

· No. 2, No. 4, No. 7 and No. 9 check balls damaged or missing
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

· Solenoid screen blocked or damaged
· Clean or install a new screen.

Pump 
· Porosity/cross leaks, balls missing, damaged or leaking
· Inspect for porosity/leaks, balls missing. Install a new pump as required.

· Gaskets damaged
· Inspect for damage. Install new gaskets as required.

OD Band 
· OD band and reverse clutch drum assembly damaged, worn or assembled incorrectly
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

· Intermediate one-way clutch assembly damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

Forward Clutch Assembly 
· Seals or piston damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

· Friction elements worn or damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

· Check ball stuck, damaged or not seating correctly
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

Input Shaft 
· Seals damaged
· Inspect for damage. Repair as required.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

*Critical clue???*

I just realized thru these posts I may have left out a critical bit of information?????
When the truck was first let down off the ramps yesterday and it was backed out [lasy]
and we realized something had happened we got the O/D light flashing on the left side of the dash probably about 10 times then it went out and imeadiately following that over on the right side of the dash where the odometer is normally we got a flashing 
,<<<<<<TRANS FAULT>>>>>>>> that flashed about 6 times. And at that point he shut the truck off and when he restarted it all that went away ..................... but the problem has not???????
I noticed up above in those codes that FF has posted that they are referencing REV and LOW a few times there is that indicating that LOW and REV are on the same band ????
If that is true and the band had a problem would the tranny not show problems then in 1st gear??????? Just wondering if that would prove anything about the bands ??????
OMG what a mess.......


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

You have to scan for codes.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

I have a friend that is going to bring a scan tool over tomorrow................. I had him try the truck only in low gear and he says it will pull a mountain in low gear there is NO issues there????????? Dont know if that means the band that runs it runs REV as well and would confirm its not a band or not??


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

There's 2 o-ring seals that go out on those trans. that affect reverse also. Don't have a schematic to figure out location.


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

One more idea, not sure if its computer controlled, but disconnect the battery for 30 minutes so the computer can reset and see if that helps.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

*FF your a champ!*

Ok I will call him in the morning and we will try that two................ gosh this is so frustrating I am going over to a friends and just drink a few wines and try to shake this outta my mind as its driving me NUTS:realmad:


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

Rc2505;1238800 said:


> I will never have a tranny flushed again. I had one done on an S-10 that never had a problem, and within 500 miles, the tranny was laying in pieces. Talked to a couple of mechanics, and they say when a tranny is back flushed, it loosens up all the clutch dust, and is almost a sure thing to plug the new filter up within 1000 miles. As soon as the filter is plugged, thats when all the fun happens inside the tranny, which in turn causes all the little pieces to be laying in your pan. The only right way to do it is drain the entire system including the torque converter, change the filter, install a new pan gasket, and fill with new fluid.


I would disagree. I've had my transmission flushed religiously every year since plowing and have had absolutely no problems yet, (knock on wood.)


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## Too Stroked (Jan 1, 2010)

If it helps you guys at all, that vintage F-150 has a 4R75W transmission - not a 4R100. It's basically a beefed up 4R70W to handle the added torque of the 5.4 liter 3 valve engine that came out in 2004. And yes, it does take Mercon V fluid.

My experience with Ford automatics is that they are _very_ picky about what transmission fluid you put in them. I've gone back to only using Motorcraft stuff for that very reason.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Too Stroked,
I hear what your saying about those trannys being very picky about fluid, but since it works flawlessly going forward will that not sorta "rule out" the fluid thats in there now as being fine ???? It has 14 qts of Mercon V in it at this point and I have no idea what the percentage of the fluid has contamination after the fluid exchange yesterday but it must be almost nill at this point and I am going to take a guess its less that 5% ????? I drove it about 5 miles yesterday and it shifts nicer than mine does with that new fluid in it ?????? I hear you on the fluid type being critical but I cant wrap my mind around it working so perfectly going forward; and doing NOTHING at all in REV, being associated to fluid?????


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

*The FINAL answer......................*

Truck was driven to the local Ford Garage 50 miles away and ran flawlessly . Transmission Tech pulled the pan and valve body; and then poped out the Rev Servo and reached up inside and pushed against the REV band; and says there it is snapped like they always are ????? I said really ??? He says we have changed a ton of these; and went on to say that Ford has know for years that the REV band in the 4R70W transmissions have a "weak band" . I asked him if the new replacement is an upgraded design? And he told me flat out; that it is EXACTLY the same, and that where the casting that the piston pushes on the bottom of the band; And where it meets the flat part of the band; it should be _heaver_ and _radius-ed_ and it is NOT and just makes a square joint there. And they break right in that thin square joint there EVERY time. He went on to say; that they normally see it in Cars with this tranny at 80-100K and that they see it all the time in Trucks with 60/80 or so thousand on them commonly. This truck was the "lowest mileage" he every has seen one fail. He also commented that the overall condition inside looked excellent; and he wasn't expecting any other issues. I asked him what the chances of this happening again in the near future was and he said off the record "*quite high*" and he really didn't feel this transmission will stand much of ANY extra REV from any form of driving; and especially an application like PLOWING!!! I knew things were not good when a friend emailed me; after he goggled "4R70W NO REVERSE" and it came back with tons of responses all saying "broken Rev band"
He informed us that there is absolutely NOTHING that could have been done to prevent it; from a maintenance point.
So there you have it; the band is $41 and they want a "thousand dollars" to put it in......... its an known fault in the transmissions; and Ford is very aware of it; but apparently has no intentions of doing anything about it at all. He did say that it has been "good for business" at their service dept for years....................... All news to me


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Quick update on all this stuff. Anyone having a 4R70/75 series transmission redone for any reason at all should be aware of the option you have while inside it and that is Borg Warner makes an upgraded Rev Band for this series transmission[courtesy of B&B's; suburb sourse of transmission knowledge] and it would most certainly pay anyone to look into this upgrade; as we said in the last post; it is a known weak point in these transmissions. The Ford garage told us; that it was very common to tear them down; and there is NOTHING else wrong with them; time after time, just this Rev Band ?? So its certainly been a problem for folks with these transmissions for quite sometime. Thanks again to everyone that tryed to help!!! And it was greatly appreaciated!


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

Rc2505;1238800 said:


> I will never have a tranny flushed again. I had one done on an S-10 that never had a problem, and within 500 miles, the tranny was laying in pieces. Talked to a couple of mechanics, and they say when a tranny is back flushed, it loosens up all the clutch dust, and is almost a sure thing to plug the new filter up within 1000 miles. As soon as the filter is plugged, thats when all the fun happens inside the tranny, which in turn causes all the little pieces to be laying in your pan. The only right way to do it is drain the entire system including the torque converter, change the filter, install a new pan gasket, and fill with new fluid.


The mechanics u talked to are idiots ,and I hope there bicycle mechanics. Transmission machines do not back flush or add any more pressure then the trans makes anyway they just exchange fluids. There are really some stupid people out there.


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## Drakeslayer (Feb 11, 2011)

235,000 and no tranny fluid change yet.


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## FisherVMan (Jan 5, 2010)

Just a sidenote on fluid; and these transmissions 4R70/75 series that Ford is using in these trucks. I noticed yesterday that the owners manual address's fluids in an interesting way . It basically states that the fluids are not to be mixed but then in the next sentence; states that if the transmission specifies Mercon V; you can use regular Mercon? But if the transmission specifies Mercon you cannot use Mercon V ?????? And that the extra additives in Mercon V; will damage a transmission that is speced for regular Mercon . I am guessing there is a slip additive in the V that is not compatable with the clutch faces in the Mercon speced trannys???? Just something to keep in mind. I am guessing they ment that if you added a quart or two to a tranny that uses V you can probably get away with it , and if you added one quart of V to a tranny that doesnt call for it somethings will happen right away when those additives hit those clutch faces???? But that is just a guess.....................


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