# Why do ppl bid like this?



## flyguyirvin65 (Feb 18, 2015)

Why are guys bidding this way and putting push push pricing?
The way I see it it one or the other.

Initial accumulation up to 4 inches: $ 300
Over 4 inches up to 7 inches: $ 335
Over 7.1 inches up to 10 inches: $ 375
Over 10.1 inches up to 12 inches: $ 400
Over 12.1 inches: An additional $15 per inch


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Seasonal


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## KYsnow (Sep 22, 2012)

Stupidity most likely!

If it snows 4 inches it's $300

If it snows 10 inches its just $375? So it snows 2 1/2 times more snow than the initial 4 inches and they charge $75 dollars more?

They should charge by the hour or the season and stop making it so complicated. 

I can see them getting in an argument with a client when the customer says " hey that was only 9.99 inches not 10.1 inches.


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## Patrick3494 (Jun 4, 2014)

They will never bill out 10 inches.... they will bill out under 4 inches 3-4 times for a bill of $900


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

I've been plowing since 2006. I have been biding and charging on a graduated scale like that since day one and have NEVER had a complaint once or someone question the depth for which they were billed. I have customers now that I've had since I started, so my guess is they are happy or they wouldn't keep resigning year after year.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

By the way, I ask the same question every time I get on here and read about "seasonal" quotes. Do what works for you.

Edit: Might be worth mentioning that 80% of our storms fall into the 2-5 range, so it is pretty simple for the most part. The one or two whoppers (around here, that means anything above about 8 or 9 inches)that we may see every season, they are just glad to have it cleared so they can open for business and therefore don't care what the bill is (within reason).


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## KYsnow (Sep 22, 2012)

*They will never bill out 10 inches.... they will bill out under 4 inches 3-4 times for a bill of $900*

Then why even have that pricing structure? Sounds like a con game to me!

Which brings us back to the OP original question…"why do people bid like this" I say because it's a cute underhanded con that may fool a customer once.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

KYsnow;2017154 said:


> *They will never bill out 10 inches.... they will bill out under 4 inches 3-4 times for a bill of $900*
> 
> Then why even have that pricing structure? Sounds like a con game to me!
> 
> Which brings us back to the OP original question…"why do people bid like this" I say because it's a cute underhanded con that may fool a customer once.


So out of curiosity, when it snows 10" from 5pm-1am, on an office complex you gonna push that 4 times and bill 4 times?


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

An additional $15.00 per inch after 12.1"...There's a money maker!:laughing:


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

KYsnow;2017154 said:


> *They will never bill out 10 inches.... they will bill out under 4 inches 3-4 times for a bill of $900*
> 
> Then why even have that pricing structure? Sounds like a con game to me!
> 
> Which brings us back to the OP original question…"why do people bid like this" I say because it's a cute underhanded con that may fool a customer once.


I bill out for what is ON THE GROUND AT THE LOCATION I AM PLOWING AT THE TIME I START PLOWING. I have 10 accounts, all with 2" triggers. If you are first in my route and there is 4" on the ground at that location when I start to plow, then you are billed at the 2-5 rate for that visit. If it is still snowing and by the time I get to my last account, there is 8" on the ground there, then they pay the 7-10 rate. Now since they got serviced later, possibly at the end of the storm, that may be all they pay where as the first account now has 4 more inches and will be plowed and pay again. Like I said, 9 yrs of doing it that way, and never a complaint, so it works for me. I might add also that my rate increase from 2-5 to 5-7 to 7-10 goes up about 50% per tier. Example 2-5 is 200.00 then 5-7 would be 3-350 and 7-10 would be 500 or maybe 600 depending on difficulty of account (wide open or cluster). So no piddly 50 dollar jump between tiers.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

flyguyirvin65;2015543 said:


> Why are guys bidding this way and putting push push pricing?
> The way I see it it one or the other.
> 
> Initial accumulation up to 4 inches: $ 300
> ...


Besides not going up nearly enough per increment what exactly is your beef with this system? Your question is very vague.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

derekslawncare;2017170 said:


> I bill out for what is ON THE GROUND AT THE LOCATION I AM PLOWING AT THE TIME I START PLOWING. I have 10 accounts, all with 2" triggers. If you are first in my route and there is 4" on the ground at that location when I start to plow, then you are billed at the 2-5 rate for that visit. If it is still snowing and by the time I get to my last account, there is 8" on the ground there, then they pay the 7-10 rate. Now since they got serviced later, possibly at the end of the storm, that may be all they pay where as the first account now has 4 more inches and will be plowed and pay again. Like I said, 9 yrs of doing it that way, and never a complaint, so it works for me. I might add also that my rate increase from 2-5 to 5-7 to 7-10 goes up about 50% per tier. Example 2-5 is 200.00 then 5-7 would be 3-350 and 7-10 would be 500 or maybe 600 depending on difficulty of account (wide open or cluster). So no piddly 50 dollar jump between tiers.


What a nightmare. I can't imagine keeping track of that.

Longae, you're a large contractor from what I've seen, far larger than we are. Do you do anything tiered?

With 5 trucks, 4 skids and 3 loaders out on each storm in Athens, and 2 trucks and 2 skids out in Wooster I can't even begin to imagine the cluster**** tiered billing would turn into for us. Much less anyone bigger than that. It'd be a full time job just measuring snow depths on properties.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

John_DeereGreen;2017186 said:


> What a nightmare. I can't imagine keeping track of that.
> 
> Longae, you're a large contractor from what I've seen, far larger than we are. Do you do anything tiered?
> 
> With 5 trucks, 4 skids and 3 loaders out on each storm in Athens, and 2 trucks and 2 skids out in Wooster I can't even begin to imagine the cluster**** tiered billing would turn into for us. Much less anyone bigger than that. It'd be a full time job just measuring snow depths on properties.


For a larger company with multiple vehicles out, I can see how it would become a problem. For me, one guy/one truck, it isn't hard at all. I'm already getting out when I arrive to clear the sidewalk before I start plowing. While I'm out, I make a mental note how deep my footprints are. When I get back in the truck, I write it on my clip board that I have all my site info on. Already writing weather conditions, pavement and air temps and all that down. How hard is it to write 4" out to the side?


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## KYsnow (Sep 22, 2012)

Longae29;2017161 said:


> So out of curiosity, when it snows 10" from 5pm-1am, on an office complex you gonna push that 4 times and bill 4 times?


Are you asking me that question?

No I'm going to bill them for the number of hours My trucks were on the lot clearing the snow. Very simple, no measuring snow depth, no multiple billings, something easy that everyone understands.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

KYsnow;2017334 said:


> Are you asking me that question?
> 
> No I'm going to bill them for the number of hours My trucks were on the lot clearing the snow. Very simple, no measuring snow depth, no multiple billings, something easy that everyone understands.


All bids fall into how many hours you're on the lot, how it's structured in the bid shouldn't matter. You're still billing for your time, expenses and material.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

We give the customer the choice, seasonal rate or per push progressive rate (2-4 4-6 and so on). An hourly rate gives absolutely no benefit to the guy with the bigger plow and more efficient plowing technique who can plow a lot in half the time of a small straight blade.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

John_DeereGreen;2017186 said:


> What a nightmare. I can't imagine keeping track of that.
> 
> Longae, you're a large contractor from what I've seen, far larger than we are. Do you do anything tiered?
> 
> With 5 trucks, 4 skids and 3 loaders out on each storm in Athens, and 2 trucks and 2 skids out in Wooster I can't even begin to imagine the cluster**** tiered billing would turn into for us. Much less anyone bigger than that. It'd be a full time job just measuring snow depths on properties.


We do quite a bit of incremental pricing. In my opinion it's nice to have on a property that may be closed for 12 hours at a time (office, etc) we service over 100 properties most are 1 acre +, drivers are to measure depth in 2 places and record it on their logsheet...I honestly can't remember ever (only 17 years in business) having an argument with a customer over depth. If its a 24hr facility, or multi shifts, its either seasonal or we don't bother with tiering the pricing because its getting pushed all the time anyway. Of course no site is ever getting to the 2nd tier during business hours but its nice to have during "off" hours.


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## KYsnow (Sep 22, 2012)

LapeerLandscape;2017349 said:


> An hourly rate gives absolutely no benefit to the guy with the bigger plow and more efficient plowing technique who can plow a lot in half the time of a small straight blade.


That's why different equipment has different rates. Using your logic get a John Deere Mower with a 2 foot blade and take 72 hours to clear the lot. The bigger the equipment the higher the hourly rate.

Our customers want us to stay in business. They don't want to screw us any more than that want to be screwed by us.

I've never had a billing problem or been questioned with hourly pricing in 20 years.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

You have different rates for different equipment we have different rates for different amounts of snow. The only thing that stays the same in both is the customers parking lot. Say I bid a lot for $85. that I think will take me an hour to clear, you clear the same lot in an hour and bill out $85. (and this dollar amount is just for example). The difference is the more efficient I get the more money I make, the more efficient you get the less you make. We are also looking at two very different areas and amounts of snow annually.



KYsnow;2017376 said:


> That's why different equipment has different rates. Using your logic get a John Deere Mower with a 2 foot blade and take 72 hours to clear the lot. The bigger the equipment the higher the hourly rate.
> 
> Our customers want us to stay in business. They don't want to screw us any more than that want to be screwed by us.
> 
> I've never had a billing problem or been questioned with hourly pricing in 20 years.


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## AccuCon (Jan 31, 2013)

I offer a rate structure and basically it is based on how many visits I know it will take for a storm of say 8" Its basically double the initial number minus a percentage (since sometimes the storm falls at the right hours and I can clean up a 8" in one shot. That percentage is a trade secret )...In reality we are all really making the money on salting since that is a per application. 

Hey as long as you make it easy for you to understand, the client gets it, and you are making money, who cares.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Longae29;2017350 said:


> We do quite a bit of incremental pricing. In my opinion it's nice to have on a property that may be closed for 12 hours at a time (office, etc) we service over 100 properties most are 1 acre +, drivers are to measure depth in 2 places and record it on their logsheet...I honestly can't remember ever (only 17 years in business) having an argument with a customer over depth. If its a 24hr facility, or multi shifts, its either seasonal or we don't bother with tiering the pricing because its getting pushed all the time anyway. Of course no site is ever getting to the 2nd tier during business hours but its nice to have during "off" hours.


I could see that working with drivers that have been with you a while. We don't have anything that we can let sit like that. All we do is retail complexes, medical complexes, condo/HOA's and municipal work. Our latest retails that close, lots aren't empty till 11, and employees are back at 5. During those hours we'll let them sit but we're also seasonal for all our accounts.


KYsnow;2017376 said:


> That's why different equipment has different rates. Using your logic get a John Deere Mower with a 2 foot blade and take 72 hours to clear the lot. The bigger the equipment the higher the hourly rate.
> 
> Our customers want us to stay in business. They don't want to screw us any more than that want to be screwed by us.
> 
> I've never had a billing problem or been questioned with hourly pricing in 20 years.


That's fine and great if you're somewhere were there's minimal snow. The hourly accounts here look for the lowest number per hour, doesn't matter what production rates are. I can't get paid to be productive here hourly. Anything of decent size is seasonal.

Try explaining to a customer why your hourly rate is $50 per hour higher than the guy with a Tacoma, because you're running a 10 foot wide v plow and 16 foot back blade. All they care about is how much it's costing them per hour, no matter how much faster I am over the other guy.


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## SnowinPA (Aug 25, 2015)

Here we do tiered for non 24 hr operational places and hourly rates for places that are open 24 hrs. Seasonal isn't all that beneficial in my area with my 20 plus years in this. One year we could have 20- 3 inch storms then the next year 10 dustings and one or two 6 inch snows. Like someone else said the most money is in the salt.


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## Shade Tree NJ (Dec 26, 2010)

That's how we bid, in two inch increments, nearest NWS reporting location is who decides upon total. Works good for us.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

flyguyirvin65;2015543 said:


> Why are guys bidding this way and putting push push pricing?
> The way I see it it one or the other.
> 
> Initial accumulation up to 4 inches: $ 300
> ...


Well my per storm prices are about the same type of formula.
Biggest difference is my price goes up the more snow we get. 
Example:
Plowing only at 2"- 3.9" mark

2"-3.9" storm $300 
4"-6.9" storm $375
7"-9.9" storm $450

Over 10" there will be an additional cost of $125 every 1-3 inches up to 21" then there will be an additional cost of $250.00 every 1-3 inches

With the bigger storms we are only keeping access roads open for emergency vehicles and we might hit a few open parking spots.

So we are not completely plowing the place out and just keeping the roads clear, that is why I don't charge full price every 2-3 inches.

Higher amounts of snow mean more working the trucks pushing it and more time, so the prices reflect that because we plow with the storm and don't wait till the end.

And what that means is the sites we plow are done within a few hours of the storm.

Like with the January 2015 storm that dropped 3 feet of snow. 
The state still had the roads still closed the following day after the storm. 
All my sites were cleared of snow and blacktop before the state opened the roads up.

Had I waited till storm end on that way, we would have still been clearing snow 2 days later and I would have had a lot of pissed of clients.


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## subydude (Dec 2, 2012)

The tiered pricing for per storm makes sense to me. A storm of 2-5 inches you may only make one trip to the lot. A larger storm of 9-12 inches will require more time and more trips to the lot which= more money. All depth measurments come from the National weather service so customers can't think your screwing them. Walking to your truck ans saying "yup, theres 4 inches, jot that down on the pad" seems pretty unprofessional to me. Just my .02

Also i like this system because your getting paid for the work you actually do. Seasonal contracts scare me. Just seems like you can lose your shirt pretty bad. On the other hand you could make out. I dont like the risk


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## ryde307 (Dec 3, 2009)

We run a tiered price structure like shown above. The difference is we have open ups that are billed. A price might look like this:

1-3" $100
3.1-6" $175
6.1-9" $250
and so on.
Then there is a line with open up $50. We then have language that explains when this happens. Basically during open hours every 3 inches. So on a 9" snow the bill may look like:
2 open ups @ $50 = $100
1 6-9" plow @ $250
Total $350.

Open ups are for drivelanes, handicap spots, and a few parking spots if they are open in large groups.


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