# Salt - brands Diamond Crystal



## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

Hey Guys,


Last year I used a bunch of Ice-A-Way. Worked pretty good. Even when really cold you could just add a little more and bingo.

This year I requested the same product by name and was sold Halite. I now come to find that was this companies little bate and switch game. By selling Halite they could change brands .... Now I'm using Crystal Diamond.

It's like powder, sits on top very slow to melt and you have to apply a bunch more for the same reaction. Anyone else????

On the same topic any recommendations on a rock salt with a little kick? For instance if a 50lb bag of rock salt was $4 ... is there something for $6 with just a little kick start built in???????

Thanks,


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## suzuki0702 (Apr 6, 2008)

ive got the same stuff....havent been able to try it yet but im interested...


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

scottL;899017 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Last year I used a bunch of Ice-A-Way. Worked pretty good. Even when really cold you could just add a little more and bingo.
> 
> ...


Are you talking about this stuff?


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## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

YES ... .That's the offender now put it back in your water softener.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

As far as I know Ice A Way is also Halite.

I find it odd that you think the Diamond brand is to small. When I got Ice A Way i thought it was to big. I find the smaller the better unless you a trying to cut real thick ice.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

cretebaby;899064 said:


> As far as I know Ice A Way is also Halite.
> 
> I find it odd that you think the Diamond brand is to small. When I got Ice A Way i thought it was to big. I find the smaller the better unless you a trying to cut real thick ice.


If your looking for a fine screened product, try and find Cutlers. Its very cheap too. There out of Duluth.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

T-MAN;899293 said:


> If your looking for a fine screened product, try and find Cutlers. Its very cheap too. There out of Duluth.


That is nice stuff. We have gotten some of it in the past.


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## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

cretebaby;899064 said:


> As far as I know Ice A Way is also Halite.
> 
> I find it odd that you think the Diamond brand is to small. When I got Ice A Way i thought it was to big. I find the smaller the better unless you a trying to cut real thick ice.


...as I noted in my post ... it is halite. I agree a gemologist would classify them both the same. HOWEVER, this diamond crap does not work well. Soooooo I had two pallets left over from last year of the ice-a-way and spread them both in test areas..... It was obvious the Diamond Crap was not nearly as good.

I get the size part but, I don't see the value per sae - it' not like I'm shooting them through some space age delivery system to blast through the snow/ice ... they simply get flung from the hopper.

I have pondered WHY one over the other. I know they come from different holes in the ground, maybe there is an acidic value to them .... dunno, don't care ... I just know the diamond is not worth the effort.

Still curious of there is a next-step-up product that is slightly more money with the little extra kick.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

cretebaby;899300 said:


> That is nice stuff. We have gotten some of it in the past.


One of my local feed supply's sells it. It was 50-75 cents cheaper a bag. I spread a heck of alot of skids of that stuff. I used to mix that with liquid magic for walks too. Worked like a dream for about 4.25 a bag, and no ankle twisters in there like bagged magic.


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## mypolaris1 (Nov 20, 2009)

I was told the halite is not as pure. It's a bit cheaper then the diamond crystal stuff which is smaller becuase it gets screened more and is more pure. I have used TONS of diamond crystal and don't have trouble.


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## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

It is true that it is screened .... they are very proud of that.

When I've looked behind out trucks salting it is like a sand storm coming out. Pelts are nearly the size of sidewalk and lots of dust.... Might as well be in my salt shaker.


But, still the question really is ...... Is there a rock salt with a bit of a kick for just a bit more money?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

scottL;900183 said:


> It is true that it is screened .... they are very proud of that.
> 
> When I've looked behind out trucks salting it is like a sand storm coming out. Pelts are nearly the size of sidewalk and lots of dust.... Might as well be in my salt shaker.
> 
> But, still the question really is ...... Is there a rock salt with a bit of a kick for just a bit more money?


I wonder if you just got a bad batch. I have never noticed any dust in the Diamond Crystal stuff.

You could try mixing a little CaCl in with the Halite.


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## cplmac (Nov 25, 2009)

Scott for $6 a bag you can get a rock salt CC blend from Russo's. They have two locations, one in Schiller park just east of O'Hare and one in Naperville which is definitely closer for you. I buy my pallets from them (although my last pallet was crap fines). I've only used their rock salt, not the blend but I'll be picking up a pallet of the blend here pretty soon.


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## highlander316 (Oct 18, 2006)

i have good results when I used to use the Diamond Crystal. Using American Rock salt this year, and still unsure. It's a little bigger (truck spreader has no problems), but my push spreader struggles with it like crazy.


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## tigertownman (Dec 1, 2009)

If you guys want a good i mean good rock salt that works even in cold temps... I have been using this rock salt from Menards .. its a water softner / ice melt .. perfect size pellts for both my tailgate spreader and walkbehind ... 80# bags for 7.47 and i usually pick up a few pallets each time i go and buy the stuff... The name brand is natural salt.. And if u want a large delivery that will save u some money Allied builders will deliver either 9 pallets or 18 pallets to your door $1800 for 9 pallets and $3400 for 18 pallets... its great stuff .. dont hold me to the prices from Allied .. thats to deliver to my door and i live about an hour from an Allied Builder corp.


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## mypolaris1 (Nov 20, 2009)

I used a ton of that natural stuff last year. Works good. It's actaully the same as the diamond crystal stuff, Menards just wants it in their own brand bags so no price competing.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*FYI salt etc.*



scottL;899017 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Last year I used a bunch of Ice-A-Way. Worked pretty good. Even when really cold you could just add a little more and bingo.
> 
> ...


==================================================================================================================================
Halite is the common name for any decing salt whether it is deep mined or harvested from solar salt pans.
====================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================
The "Diamond Crystal Salt" brand name is owned by Cargill inc. 
The Diamond Crysatl salt Company mine was flooded by an oil drill rigs
puncturing the Jefferson Island, Louisiana salt mine roof and destroyed it in 1980. 
The mine was only 37 years old from what I remember of it.

The bagged salt salt is sprayed with liquid magnesium chloride also known as 
"clearlane" in some bulk forms.

The reason there is excessive dust most of the time is because of the handling 
and rehandling of the rock salt from the broken salt being stored due to a down 
stream breakdown with a conveyor or a problem with the mines
other machinery used to transport the salt from th emine face to the screening plant.

The type of explosive used which is AMFO "Ammonium Nitrate coated with Fuel Oil" 
is a very effective and powereful explosive blasting agent, much much more powerful 
than dynamite or water gel explosives and it shatters the crystalline structure of the 
rock salt very easily creating the salt dust.

What happens is the conveyor belts belts have to stop due to a full 
surge pile prior to the underground screen plant and the belt feeder breaker sits there 
at idle continually breaking and rebreaking the salt that has been dumped in to the 
feeder breaker and this amounts to many tons of salt fines that proceed to be screened
and then eventually bagged for sale or sent to bulk stock piles.

When the belts start up again this salt makes its way to the screening plant and then
the screens are flooded by salt finds and blind up not allowing the fines to pass through
them which happens when the screens are flooded by massive amounts of fines as 
well as saleable product.

The bagged and bulk salt is screened to thirty mesh size which is the consistancy of 
cake flour and and anyting that is above thrty mesh is sold as Halite.

Any oversize salt pieces reaching the bagging plants are screened out typically and sold
to independent salt block makers or pressed into salt blocks at the mines packaging plant
if a block press is used.:waving:


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

+1--Halite is just rock salt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halite). DC products are Cargill's "house" bagged products (http://www.diamondcrystalsalt.com/default.aspx), and the "Winter Melt" is just plain old rock salt. They offer two other grades--"Jiffy Melt" (with mag) and "Flash Melt" (with cal). Haven't had any come through our channels yet, but I don't know why it would be any better/worse than any other major manufacturer's screened/bagged products. They do have a line of softener salts, but they appear to be primarily compacted solar pellets/cubes/blocks (they have one crystal product in a blue bag). When it comes to plain ole rock, unless we see a major price or quality difference--rock is rock. There are so many blends out here now that it's not worth getting fussy over rock unless it's just junk (which we saw a *LOT* of last season, mostly "Peruvian").


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt for deicing etc.*



Westhardt Corp.;903492 said:


> +1--Halite is just rock salt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halite). DC products are Cargill's "house" bagged products (http://www.diamondcrystalsalt.com/default.aspx), and the "Winter Melt" is just plain old rock salt. They offer two other grades--"Jiffy Melt" (with mag) and "Flash Melt" (with cal). Haven't had any come through our channels yet, but I don't know why it would be any better/worse than any other major manufacturer's screened/bagged products. They do have a line of softener salts, but they appear to be primarily compacted solar pellets/cubes/blocks (they have one crystal product in a blue bag). When it comes to plain ole rock, unless we see a major price or quality difference--rock is rock. There are so many blends out here now that it's not worth getting fussy over rock unless it's just junk (which we saw a *LOT* of last season, mostly "Peruvian").


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I stated in my previous posting to this one!

=================================================================

Deep mined rock salt is found in Columbia; most of the salt in South America is either mined from existing dry salt lakes pushed up by the rising Andes Mountains in Bolivia or harvested from solar salt pans near the Pacific Ocean in Mexico, California, Chile and Australia and on Caribbean sea.in Venezuela and the islands of Bahamas.

Solar Salt varies in quality due to many factors one of which salt pans are harvested too early due to market demands, insufficient ocean salt water amounts are not pumped in to concentrating pans prior to its being evaporated by the sun and then harvested. The salinity of the sea water will vary and it may not have heavy concentrations of sodium chloride prior to pumping it into concentrating ponds. If solar salt is harvested during a wet period it will dilute.

Some solar salt is simply pumped into salt flats and allowed to evaporate and then it is harvested to be sold later.

Solar salt differs in quality and consistency as well due to the salt pans location and the climate as heavy rains will dilute the salt in the concentrating ponds as the salt water is evaporated and then moved to a final concentrating pond to add layers of salt by evaporation until it is sufficient in depth to be harvested for commercial sale.

The Deep mined rock salt mines in the United States and Canada are either the type referred to as seam mines or Dome mines.

The salt mines In Louisiana of which there are only three now in existence, which are the Avery Island Mine, the Weeks Island Mine, and the Cote Blanche mine are different in salt type as they are much, much older than the salt taken from the eastern mines.
The Louisiana rock salt has much less rock in it simply due to local geology where rock had formed in pockets and it was carried along in with the growing rising salt dome. 
There are two salt dome mines in Texas one in Grand Saline, Texas and the other outside Hockley, Texas.

There are 330 salt domes that have been identified on shore and off shore in the united states.

The rock salt deposit being mined in Pugwash, Nova Scotia Canada is 200 or more feet thick.

The salt seam being mined by in the Magdelan Islands in the Gulf of St. Lawrence is a thick salt seam as is the salt seam at Windsor, Ontario

The shallow depth rock salt deposit under Lake Huron at Goderich, Ontario is over 70 feet thick.

The rock salt being mined under Lake Erie in Cleveland and Fairport Harbor Ohio is a shallow depth thick rock salt seam.

The deep rock salt deposit on the south end of Seneca Lake in New York State which is being solution mined by two companies is over 200 feet thick or greater.

The thick rock salt seam being mined by the Detroit Salt Company which was the former mine that was developed opened by the International Salt Company and later shut down due to poor market conditions and later sold to the Detroit Salt Company.

Salt that is mined in a seam like coal and other miners such as potash which occurs overlying the salt seam in both Canada and Germany will have very little rock in it.
mined potash will have shale rock in it in minute amounts due to the shale being deposited above the potash seam.

Louisiana deep mined rock salt is simply purer due to the geology where deep sea evaporated quickly numerous times and then were covered by river silt and then former rock layers and the weight of the overburden allowed the salt in the deposit that is thirty thousand feet thick ruptured and pushed upward while the silt and mud continue to be deposited in the Gulf of Mexico.

The eastern rock salt has shale and then limestone covering it from the decay of the remains of marine life in the various salt seas in the Eastern Hemispere. 
The Rock salt seam being mined in Kansas is shallow in depth and it is also solution mined.

Rock salt is different in consistency and quality depending upon its location, whether it is deep mined or mined from thick surface deposits in deep deposits on lake beds( the salt being mine in one location in Chile is 2 miles or more thick in places and it was pushed up by the Andes Mountain range as it grows in height and as I mentioned before.

The salt seam being mined underground in The State of Utah has a different consistency being red in color which is typically signifies the mixture of liquified shale mud mixing and the salt layer deposit and reacting with the salt layers.

The salt in the 3 existing domal mines and the 325 other domes in Louisiana and Texas and else where in the South Eastern Gulf Coast of the United States is almost a billion or so years old and reaches the surface or near the surface from a huge deep salt deposit 30,000 plus feet below the surface.

Many of the salt domes have sulphur deposits at the top of the salt layer and or anhidrite like the ones at Avery Island, Hockley, Texas and the Spindle Top dome where crude oil was discovered in huge deposits,

To say rock salt is just rock salt is not true.

leon

:waving:


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## pieperlc (Jan 4, 2005)

Scott, try conserv fs. They have some bagged products that are sodium with an accelerating agent. We are trying Ice Age this year. Can't remember cost for sure. Works to -5. Has smaller particles like the product you're talking about. I've used the same stuff and had good luck with it. Also used the larger ice-a-way and thought it was almost too big unless I was melting thick stuff. I mixed the two together from time to time as well.


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## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

I'm here to tell you Rock salt is not just rock salt. A common man's observations of two products laid down on the same surfaces, temps, time and drvier and yet the performance is obviously different.

As for ConservFS I do have their Ice Age too. It was sold to me as a wonder drug for sidewalks. It is not. To big of pellets for a complete coverage of the walks. However, mixed in with common rock salt and applied to a lot and it now is a great application. Unfortunately, It then adds over head.

My rep at ConservFS ... Kind of aloof, high brow and slightly condescending. I've heard great things about others ... maybe I need to force a change.


Thanks guys.


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## pieperlc (Jan 4, 2005)

I thought the Ice Age was fairly small and would be okay for walks. So far I've only used a half dozen bags at night in my tailgate for lots, and I mixed it with rock salt and triple melt, so I didn't get a real great look at it. Yes, I know triple melt is expensive to use on lots, but it was below zero and I wanted to get things going, and I added only 1 bag per 6-8 of rock salt.


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## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

pieperlc;904418 said:


> I thought the Ice Age was fairly small and would be okay for walks. So far I've only used a half dozen bags at night in my tailgate for lots, and I mixed it with rock salt and triple melt, so I didn't get a real great look at it. Yes, I know triple melt is expensive to use on lots, but it was below zero and I wanted to get things going, and I added only 1 bag per 6-8 of rock salt.


I am assuming you have a tailgate spreader. The Ice Age and Diamond are nearly the same size although a lot of the diamond is really powder. The Triple is much smaller in size and would flow at a much faster rate. How do you blend in your hopper to get a consistent spread of the material.

I've got a Sno-Way sw9 spreader. I've mixed half (Diamond ) on one side and half (Ice Age )on the other and this combination really kick starts well.

Ice Age pellets are rock salt size and in fact I find they are generally larger and more consistent than the Diamond stuff. I'm going to transition away from the Ice Age for the walks...Stil not sure what to. I've tried their Zero and it has a massively better kick than the Triple at a few bucks cheaper .... but, I have not tested it's ability to fight refreeze.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

leon;903917 said:


> As I stated in my previous posting to this one!


LOL...it would seem that page 2 contained a very informative, well written post. It's unfortunate that I apparently didn't _see_ it!

To clarify, I like to think we all know that there are many different sources of rock salt, as well as mining techniques. As such, quality of the material does vary. But honestly, for the vast majority of our customer base, what _really_ matters is "does it work?" and "is it priced right?". If either of those answers are undesirable, then it's a problem. There are many folks out there who want the cheapest garbage they can get their hands on. They know the inherent hassles, and are OK with it. Then there are customers who want super clean, much better than AASHTO 143, well-sized material and are willing to pay for it (although the price difference really isn't huge unless you're buying the "garbage" in mass quantities, at which point you get a nice price break)

This is why we've made it a point to expand our supply network whenever possible, so that our customers can get exactly what they want. "Top shelf" or "well", it's their call. As long as the customers get what they want, know what they are getting, get it at the price they were quoted and get it when they need it, then as a supplier we are doing our part. We depend on the customers to inform us when the material is not performing as expected (which happens sometimes), so we can know better the true quality of the products being shipped. Samples are helpful, but they are seldom an accurate representation of the entire pile.

Knowledgeable contractors are key in making sure the end customer gets the best services possible. (and, side note--they are generally not the lowest bidders...for a reason)

/rant, and sorry for the redundancy earlier


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## pieperlc (Jan 4, 2005)

If I'm only using a few bags, I'll load half and half. The other night I was putting it down heavier and I was layering it. When that first bag on the bottom gets thrown out of the hopper, the salt funnels down from all sides as it's being used, and I thought it mixed itself pretty well. I'm sure it's not perfect, but I was happy with the end result: a melting/wet lot. I've been real happy with the triple melt on walks, but it's close to if not the most expensive melter conserv sells. It works so I guess you're just paying for quality. I'll have to keep the zero in mind next time I'm ordering. I thought the triple was pretty fast.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt etc.*

If you would like to find out exactly what you are getting at every load you should invest in a saline refractomer to guarantee the products quality and salinity.

The saline refractometers are available from Lab Safety Supply and they have a web page as well.

leon


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

That is an excellent idea, much like checking a salt water aquarium. Although hopefully, unlike that application, no lives will be lost due to excessive salinity in this line of work (but one never does know!)


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