# Tire Chains???



## bstout

My driveway is one half mile long of dirt road. Most of the time I don't need chains or I think I don't need them. There's usually at least one annual blizzard where I get stuck good and have to call my neighbor to come rescue me. 

I'm trying to learn about tire chains because I've never used them before. My driveway is level and flat, just long. I guess what I'm asking is will tire chains turn my 05 Tundra with a Boss 7.5 Sport Duty into an unstoppable machine or not so much? Do they make a night & day difference?

I also need tire chains that I can get on and off quickly and easily since they aren't legal here in Wisconsin for highway use. I'd probably only be using them under severe blizzard or when I was afraid not to use them for plowing.

I need guidance as to whether I really need them or not and where can I get some user friendly ones that really work (anyone have a link)? My truck has P265 70R16 Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor tires all the way around, brand new ones.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Bob


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## leolkfrm

weight at the back of the bed would help!...between the tailgate and wheel well gives the most benifit with less weight


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## seville009

bstout;1375055 said:


> My driveway is one half mile long of dirt road. Most of the time I don't need chains or I think I don't need them. There's usually at least one annual blizzard where I get stuck good and have to call my neighbor to come rescue me.
> 
> I'm trying to learn about tire chains because I've never used them before. My driveway is level and flat, just long. I guess what I'm asking is will tire chains turn my 05 Tundra with a Boss 7.5 Sport Duty into an unstoppable machine or not so much? Do they make a night & day difference?
> 
> I also need tire chains that I can get on and off quickly and easily since they aren't legal here in Wisconsin for highway use. I'd probably only be using them under severe blizzard or when I was afraid not to use them for plowing.
> 
> I need guidance as to whether I really need them or not and where can I get some user friendly ones that really work (anyone have a link)? My truck has P265 70R16 Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor tires all the way around, brand new ones.
> 
> Any advice is greatly appreciated!
> 
> Bob


I use these when necessary - they work

http://tirechains.com/STRAPONTIRECHAINS.htm


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## IsaacCarlson

Chains will make a night and day difference. You can drive through a TON of snow with chains. I use V-bar ice chains on my 2wd f-250 to plow our 1/3 mile dirt/gravel driveway and I have never had any problem with them. I can go anywhere I want with them on. There is NO substitute for chains.

FYI: They are legal on road in WI if you are worried for your safety or you need extra traction.

See Wi state code 347.45

347.45  Tire equipment.
(1) All automobiles, motor trucks, motor buses, truck tractors, trailers, semitrailers, recreational vehicles, and mobile homes when operated upon a highway shall be completely equipped with tires inflated with compressed air and all other motor vehicles when operated on a highway shall be equipped with tires of rubber or of some material or construction of equal resiliency. No person may operate on a highway any motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, recreational vehicle, or mobile home having any metal tire in contact with the roadway, except that tire chains of reasonable proportions may be used when required for safety because of snow, ice or other conditions tending to cause a vehicle to skid, and except as provided in sub. (2) (c).
(2) No person shall operate on a highway any vehicle, including farm tractors, self-propelled farm implements, implements of husbandry, animal-drawn vehicles and road machinery, if such vehicle has on the periphery of any of its tires any block, stud, flange, cleat, spike or other protuberance of any material other than rubber which projects beyond the tread of the traction surface of the tire, except that:
(a) Farm tractors, self-propelled farm implements, implements of husbandry, animal-drawn vehicles and road machinery may be operated with metal tires or tires having protuberances that will not injure the highway.
(b) Tire chains of reasonable proportions may be used on any vehicle when required for safety because of snow, ice or other conditions tending to cause a vehicle to skid.
(c) A pneumatic tire may have embedded in it wire or wire coils for improving traction on ice and snow, but such tire shall be so constructed that the percentage of wire or wire coils in contact with the roadway does not exceed, after the first 1,000 miles of use or operation, 5 percent of the total tire area in contact with the roadway. During the first 1,000 miles of use or operation of any such tire the wire or wire coils in contact with the roadway shall not exceed 20 percent of the total tire area in contact with the roadway. Tires equipped with tungsten carbide studs shall be limited in usage and design as follows:
1. The department shall, by rule, designate the times of year during which any type of tire described in this paragraph may be used.
2. Such tires may be used only on authorized emergency vehicles, school buses, vehicles used to deliver mail and automobiles with out-of-state registrations and then only if such automobile is in the course of passing through this state for a period of not more than 30 days.
3. Such studs shall not project more than one-eighth inch beyond the tread surface of the tire.
(3) The authority in charge of maintenance of the highway in question may, in its discretion, issue a special permit authorizing operation upon such highway of a vehicle the operation of which would otherwise be prohibited under this section.


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## meborder

I would add one word of caution though: 

If by chance you DO get stuck with chains on, you are REALLY stuck!

so knowing when to quit and back out is advisable when using chains.


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## IsaacCarlson

meborder;1375279 said:


> I would add one word of caution though:
> 
> If by chance you DO get stuck with chains on, you are REALLY stuck!
> 
> so knowing when to quit and back out is advisable when using chains.


Yeah....what he said. If you have 4 wheel drive, chain all four and you will be able to do more than you ever thought a 4x4 could. Pair that with lockers and ....well......it will go anywhere a tank will. Just don't get stuck......


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## meborder

And another tip.

Cut any extra lenght off the chains to fit or take the time to secure the loose tails. 

that, or enjoy the time spent on your back in the cold replacing brake hoses.

ask me how i know.

Vice grips make a handy tool to pinch off ripped brake lines to restore some stoping power to a truck in an emergency. just fix the darn thing as soon as you get home.

and like he said ... dont get stuck, or have the national guard on speed dial.


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## IsaacCarlson

If you end up with a gap on the tread where the chains hook together where another cross link would seem to be, just pick up a replacement link and put it in. This will keep the wheels from "skipping" where they have good grip and then spin when they get to the empty spot and start digging.


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## bstout

Thanks, fellas for all the information. I've got a better feeling about purchasing tire chains now than I had before. As I said I probably won't put them on and leave them on, rather put them on when I think I'm REALLY going to need them.

This brings up my next question. I see tire chains that utilize cams and some that do not.

*Which of the two styles is easier to deal with in general, cams or no cams?*

*Do the cams themselves ever create issues like come undone on their own and such?*

I like keeping things simple. Also it looks like chain adjusters are a must so I'll order those right off the bat also. I see they make inexpensive rubber ones and then the better grade steel spring style. I'm going to start out with the inexpensive rubber ones first.

I see some plow drivers running around with tire chains on the front only. Is this a good idea or not? It sounds to me not so good in general but there's quite a few folks doing it.

Here's where I'm planning on doing my ordering.

http://www.tirechains.com/P265-70R-16.htm

I'm looking at the twisted link version for $62.57 which uses cams or the V-bar for $85.03 which doesn't use cams. I want it to be easy to get them on and off in a reasonable amount of time which is probably where the cams come into play. Just guessing.

I'm interested in your thoughts and I'm really appreciating the vast knowledge you guys have to offer. I really appreciate this web site.

Bob


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## IsaacCarlson

IMO V-bar is the way to go. Plain chains don't grip on ice. I don't have cams, the chains are tight enough already. Most people chain just the front, but I would do all 4. It helps more to chain all the drive wheels. You get 4 times the traction with all 4 vs 2 since it is easier to spin one of the fronts because there is nothing helping the rear. I have been wanting to install chain down the length of my tire chains to make them grip better. It would make them more like a highway/diamond hybrid.


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## meborder

As far as running them on the front only, the theroy is that you put the chains where the most weight is. especially with a plow truck, your fronts usually have far more weight than the rears.

Last time i hung chains, i put them on the front, as was recommended by a friend. Didnt work out so well for me, one tire spun and dug a hole to china. So i had one tire at full droop and no weight on it, so it was as good as having no chains at all. I was trying to pull a trailer out of a snow drift.

Personally, i think if you only have two chains, you should put them where your limited slip is. In my case, the rear was a GM Gov-lock and at least i would have had two wheels pulling equally. I might have dug both wheels down to china, but it would have had more than one wheel pulling. At the end of the day, i had the trailer on the pickup, and the tractor (also with chains) pulling both out of the drift.

I think it is personal preference. If you get 4 then your decision is easy ... hang 'em all and be done.

Regarding the chain style, the V-bars will provide more grip on ice. So if that is where you are most likely to get stuck, then that's the ones i'd pick. Otherwise, if it were just deep snow, the twisted link will be about as good as anything. 

In all honesty, cable chains will do a lot for you as well, and they are likely to be easier to hang. I think it is a matter of durability with cable chains, they might not last long under real sever uses. But i'd take them over nothing, that's for sure.

good luck!


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## IsaacCarlson

I have never worried about using tighteners on chains. I get them as tight as I can and leave them be. Bungees stretch when you drive anyway.....

The cams would be beneficial as long as they are as strong as the chain. I don't use them because I don't think they are as strong as the chain, meaning they will break before the cross links and you will be stuck. It is no big deal if you break a cross link, as long as you tie it back or cut it off before continuing. If you break a side chain, you are done.....I would skip on the cams. I have broken lots of links on the truck and tractor.


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## WILLD420

With a Tundra, you need to make sure whatever chains you buy will clear the fenders and the suspension components. Some vehicles don't leave enough room for anything except cable chains on the front, due to the design of the suspension.

The rear can use any chain that will fit the tires. If clearance is an issue, run some good V-bars on the back and some cables or diamond chains on the front if needed.

You will be amazed at what you can do, if all you do is add chains to the rear wheels and throw in 2-300 lbs of sandbags right at the tailgate.

We use chains on our snow wheeling trips all the time. Without them, we would be stuck in the first 2 minutes after we hit some Sierra Cement.

I have cam lock chains as well as standard chains. The cams work well, but I would not pay extra for them on your application. If you find that bungees won't keep them tight enough you can use ratchet straps cut down to fit. Just keep the wheel speed low, ie. lower than 35-40 mph, or they can break and fly around pretty good, especially the cheapo ones.


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## mnglocker

bstout;1375055 said:


> I also need tire chains that I can get on and off quickly and easily *since they aren't legal here in Wisconsin for highway use*. I'd probably only be using them under severe blizzard or when I was afraid not to use them for plowing.


Tire Chains are legal in all 50 states when road conditions warrant their use. (It's just up to the troopers opinion of the conditions that counts) Chances are if you need chains, the cops aren't going to be on the road pulling people over.


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## mnglocker

Btw, I run SSC z8 cable chains on all four tires of my Dodges when we get the really wet deep crap that swallows trucks.


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## gmule

I would recommend checking craigslist. I found my brand new V-bar chains for $10 a wheel.


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## bstout

WILLD420;1377126 said:


> With a Tundra, you need to make sure whatever chains you buy will clear the fenders and the suspension components. Some vehicles don't leave enough room for anything except cable chains on the front, due to the design of the suspension.
> 
> The rear can use any chain that will fit the tires. If clearance is an issue, run some good V-bars on the back and some cables or diamond chains on the front if needed.
> 
> You will be amazed at what you can do, if all you do is add chains to the rear wheels and throw in 2-300 lbs of sandbags right at the tailgate.
> 
> We use chains on our snow wheeling trips all the time. Without them, we would be stuck in the first 2 minutes after we hit some Sierra Cement.
> 
> I have cam lock chains as well as standard chains. The cams work well, but I would not pay extra for them on your application. If you find that bungees won't keep them tight enough you can use ratchet straps cut down to fit. Just keep the wheel speed low, ie. lower than 35-40 mph, or they can break and fly around pretty good, especially the cheapo ones.


I really like the "Sierra Cement" comment...too funny! That's what we get out here minus the Sierra part. It's all open fields (no snow block) the full length of my driveway (1/2 mile) and drifts come in that are three plus feet high and are many times 100 yards or more long. I've lived here for 14 years and for the first nine years used my farm tractor (with no cab) to plow. I'm getting too old and decrepit (mostly decrepit) to do that anymore so in 2007 I purchased the Boss 7.5 Sport Duty for my 05 Tundra.

My Tundra owners manual says to put chains on the rear only. I reached my hand in behind the top of the front wheel and I've got about 11/16th clearance (calibrated finger) between the tire and the suspension. I've got a good inch around the back tire for clearance.

At this point I think I'm going to put a good quality V bar chain on the back tires and throw a few hundred pounds in the back close to the tail gate. I'm apprehensive about placing cable chains (or anything else) on the front after looking in my owners manual.

What say...anyone?


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## theholycow

Sounds like a reasonable plan. Try it out. If it's not enough, you can add the front cable chains. If it is enough then you save money and avoid disobeying the manual.


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## WILLD420

Ours is called Cement, probably just like yours, because it likes to get warm here and melt everything into a giant slushy mess, then freeze it back on the top 6" or so. No traction at all, then you spin and dig a hole to china, or the tires just sit there and spin on the ice.


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## IsaacCarlson

We usually get ice and then it snows on top. Then you get the 1-3 inch crust and that is a nightmare without good chains, especially when the snow is 2-3 feet deep.


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## bstout

IsaacCarlson;1379434 said:


> We usually get ice and then it snows on top. Then you get the 1-3 inch crust and that is a nightmare without good chains, especially when the snow is 2-3 feet deep.


Yes, this is the exact situation that has gotten me into trouble in the past. Just having "good" tires won't help. I'm hoping having tire chains will. These are the chains I've been looking at.

http://www.tirechainsupply.com/265-70R16LT.html

The #3810CAMV (Twisted Link V-Bar) is what I'm planning to put on the rear tires. The #1663C are Class S and will probably work (have adequate clearance) on my front tires. I have to do some more research on that. I'd like to find someone else that has a 4WD 05 Tundra with chains all the way around to find out what issues they've had if any.

I'm wondering if the Z style cable chains are that much better than the straight across (ladder style) cable chain? I'll be searching for some Class S specified Z style cable chains if they are. I'm still feeling a little shaky about putting any chains on my front tires (even cable chains) since my owners manual says not to do so. I'd feel better about it if I knew someone else that had already done it without issues instead of going against the grain on my own.

Anyone have a 2005 Tundra 4WD all chained up or know someone that does?


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## IsaacCarlson

Those are what I have on my truck. Good chains. Never had any trouble with them. And man do they GRIP!!Thumbs Up


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## Andy96XLT

I always thought that chains were illegal in NJ. I learned something in this thread  haha


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## LJ Dave

I also live on a 1/2 mile dirt road and use my plow rig for that. Chains make a huge difference and I have chains for all 4 wheels. I chain up the night before a snow storm is predicted but only put them on the rear unless a huge snowfall is expected. 
I don't chain up the front unless its going to get really deep because it seems to be a little hard on the front suspension, and in most light snow storms its just over kill.
Chain up all 4 and you'll think you are driving a tank. It's nearly unstoppable.


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## Hippie

Wow - there is a whole lot of STUPID and WRONG advice in this thread which suprises me for a plow site.


I live in Colorado at 8,000 ft and get plenty of snow. My driveway is just under 1000 ft long and climbs 300ft plus.


Chains - I chain the front of my truck almost every time I plow. By chaining the front tires it gives you control as well as the fact that the front tires pull(* the same effect of a front wheel drive car vs a rear wheel drive carThumbs Up) Also most of the weight is over the front tires, especially with the plow hanging off the front. NEVER chain up the rear end first even if you have a locker or limited slip diff in the rear end. 

If you are chained up you should be in 4 low which will help control any sliding on ice. stay off the brakes and let engine compression do its job. 

When using chains keep a steady moderate speed and don't spin the tires to much. If you start to spin and lose momentum, stop and back up before you dig holes. Then hit it with a little momentum.

Always remember to check your chains every time before you hook them up for wear and fix/repair/replace as needed to avoid breaking a cross link which will rip a brake line and cause issues

Always use tighteners - this will save wear and tear on the chains as well as on your truck.



Can I get off my soap box now


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## Hippie

LJ Dave;1381286 said:


> I also live on a 1/2 mile dirt road and use my plow rig for that. Chains make a huge difference and I have chains for all 4 wheels. I chain up the night before a snow storm is predicted but only put them on the rear unless a huge snowfall is expected.
> I don't chain up the front unless its going to get really deep because it seems to be a little hard on the front suspension, and in most light snow storms its just over kill.
> Chain up all 4 and you'll think you are driving a tank. It's nearly unstoppable.


While I understand that it seems that the chains on the front appear to be hard on the front end suspension components the plow actually causes 5 times more wear and tear then a set of chains.

Next time try chaining up just the front and see how it feels/works - I bet you will like how it works and handles


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## Hippie

IsaacCarlson;1376038 said:


> IMO V-bar is the way to go. Plain chains don't grip on ice. I don't have cams, the chains are tight enough already. Most people chain just the front, but I would do all 4. It helps more to chain all the drive wheels. You get 4 times the traction with all 4 vs 2 since it is easier to spin one of the fronts because there is nothing helping the rear. I have been wanting to install chain down the length of my tire chains to make them grip better. It would make them more like a highway/diamond hybrid.


V bars are great



> You get 4 times the traction with all 4 vs 2


You do understand that a 4 wheel truck actually only puts power down through 2 wheels (one front and one rear) unless you have limited slip differentials or lockers


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## IsaacCarlson

Hippie;1391691 said:


> You do understand that a 4 wheel truck actually only puts power down through 2 wheels (one front and one rear) unless you have limited slip differentials or lockers


That is why you get 4 times more traction with all 4 chained. It makes it harder to spin one of the wheels and keeps the other one from breaking loose. One set complements the other. Together they are greater than the sum of both.


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## bstout

Putting chains on the front tires of a 2005 Tundra would be risky business. There is next to no clearance between the suspension and the tire. Might be able to get away with cable chains of some sort on the front but that would be it. 

My chains came via FedEx and I've put them on the rear wheels just to make sure they fit properly. I breathed a sigh of relief after having them go on and off in a matter of minutes. These are some easy chains to use due to the cams. 

I picked up the back end of my truck using my hydraulic floor jack. I put the vehicle in neutral, chocked the front tires and slipped the jack under the rear pumpkin. This made it a breeze to put the chains on tight without having to move the vehicle.

I plan on using plastic cable ties (like electricians use) for securing the cams and to keep the two extra links of side chain from hitting the vehicle. I don't want to remove the additional side chain links because I may want to use these chains on another vehicle some day.

I couldn't be more pleased with these tire chains so far. They're very well made and the company (Tire Chain Supply) was very easy to buy from on-line. 

All I need now is some snow, it's been a weird winter so far. 

Bob


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## meborder

Hippie;1391663 said:


> Wow - there is a whole lot of STUPID and WRONG advice in this thread which suprises me for a plow site.
> ...snip...
> Chains - I chain the front of my truck almost every time I plow. By chaining the front tires it gives you control as well as the fact that the front tires pull(* the same effect of a front wheel drive car vs a rear wheel drive carThumbs Up) Also most of the weight is over the front tires, especially with the plow hanging off the front. NEVER chain up the rear end first even if you have a locker or limited slip diff in the rear end.
> 
> If you are chained up you should be in 4 low which will help control any sliding on ice. stay off the brakes and let engine compression do its job.
> 
> ...snip...
> 
> Can I get off my soap box now


I have been told this more than once, so there must be some logic behind it. but i guess i don't get it.

front wheel drive cars work well because the engine is over the drive wheels. pulling and pushing are the same, it is all about the weight.

So, doing what i was told to do, i put my chains on the front, and all i had was one wheel dug to china. I'm just wondering if you would have more forward bite with two wheels engaged on a rear locker than you would with one wheel in the front with the weight of the engine on it.

i guess what i'm getting at is i've tried it. I almost got out without any chains, but coudlnt quite pull out, so i hung the chains on the front (as everyone has suggested), afterwhich i had a truck with one wheel dug down in a hole so deep it took the tractor to get out. I never tried the rear, i had given up by that point.

i'm confused as to why this is "the only way to do it" and yet it got me stuck worse than not having any chains at all.

you say to NEVER chain up the rear only. but i've never been told *why*. tire makers always suggest putting the best rubber on the rear to keep the back of the car from stepping out and going around, yet you say "never" put the chains on the rear only ... i guess i don't understand the reason why.


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## justme-

I have never heard not to chain the rear only anywhere else tho I have heard lots swear by chaining the fronts only... caveat is I've never heard of anyone personally having success chaining the fronts only without a locker in there.

I chain the rears only with ltd slip and have no problems. Been doing it for years, almost every winter these days I get a storm or 2 I need the extra traction. I get the theory of weight on the front end, but seriously, my truck, like most, has motive power in the back 90% of the time, and one of the fronts slips a lot of the time.

Chains are a huge boost- watch them for wear and do preventative replacing of the cross bars. Chain tools are available lots of places and look similar to funny shaped pliers. Unless you're talking old and really worn or neglected chains, a side is not going to fail. 
I have 1 set with cams - meh. 
get them as tight as you can by hand then drive 20 feet or so and re-tighten, then put on tensioners or bungies. Tight chains equal chain life. Slow driving speeds also equal chain life- wear is exponentially tied to road speed- under 25mph is the real recommended limit.

V bars are definately the best and you can find deals on cases or quantities of cross bars- just measure the length of the ones on your chains. 
Personally, I carry the chains in an old plastic tool box in the bed layered in for easier use. I also carry a small chain tool, 4-6 spare cross links, and a box of "monkey links" (self closing cross bar repair links), a set or rubber tensioners, a spare set (happens to be a metal spring set) and I always have bungies...

As you use the chains they will stretch so expect to have to go to another link in the side chains- I'm actually just into the link which interferes with the end cross bar. 

I'd skip the cable chains- they are a last ditch effort for traction when nothing else will work, and when really pushed will fail. The plus is they are cheap, and better then nothing. Every Police car around here used to have them (crown vics) rather then getting the officers decent snow or all seasons.

For future reference and readers, there are European companies making easy on chains with zig zag type chain and no need to roll and re tension... most common are car sizes which are light chain but Peweg (sp?) and others do make heavy chain versions for trucks... they just cost serious bucks compared to standard v-bars.


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## bstout

Is limited slip differential (LSD) better than locking differential for plowing? 

My neighbor asked me if I had posi-traction or LSD? I don't know. When I pick up the rear end of the truck and turn one of the rear wheels by hand, the wheel on the other side turns the opposite direction.


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## theholycow

Locking is better for serious traction situations like plowing a deep driveway. Limited slip is better for spotty slick roads. In practice either one ought to do you fine. I don't think Toyota offered a locking differential on the Tundra. My dad's 2002 Tundra Limited has a limited slip.

It sounds like you have a regular open differential, not limited slip or locking, although I think some of those won't engage when you jack the truck and turn a tire by hand. You can just peel out on some dirt and look at your tracks...if there's one track then it's definitely open, if there are two then it's probably limited slip or locking.


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## bluerage94

Anyone use tire chains on a dual rear wheel truck? Thinking of using them on a 2wd f550...


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## Red02F250

bluerage94;1395664 said:


> Anyone use tire chains on a dual rear wheel truck? Thinking of using them on a 2wd f550...


All the time...
Most just put chains on the outside wheels; that's all I've ever done. I've driven firetrucks for years with that setup and they work great. Larger trucks that have on-spot or automatic chain systems only affect the inside wheels and not the outside, but they're not as effective as true tire chains. In short, I'd say go ahead and chain up the outside tires.


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## bstout

I just looked under my truck at the rear pumpkin. It has a large sticker on it that says, "Use LSD oil only" so I'm guessing I have a limited slip differential.


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## LJ Dave

Hippie;1391679 said:


> While I understand that it seems that the chains on the front appear to be hard on the front end suspension components the plow actually causes 5 times more wear and tear then a set of chains.
> 
> Next time try chaining up just the front and see how it feels/works - I bet you will like how it works and handles


Thanks for the tip. On my rig, the heavy duty front springs are really stiff and the dual shocks give it a pretty harsh ride with chains on the tires. I suppose I should air down the tires a bit and try it out.
I've plowed a few times without chains at all, and having the rear chained up makes a huge difference in traction, especially when moving snow up the steep hill on my private road, where the plow is floating and the weight of the vehicle transfers to the rear as it climbs. My rig has a 40 gallon gas tank and is plenty heavy in the rear and for me this option of chaining only the rear axle has worked great. Of course it might be different without the studded snow tires, but so far the front seems to have great traction without chaining it up.

If there is a foot or more of snow forecast, I'll chain up both the front and rear, but for moderate snows, the rear axle only has been working out great.


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## Red02F250

*Almost Forgot!*



Red02F250;1395691 said:


> All the time...
> Most just put chains on the outside wheels; that's all I've ever done. I've driven firetrucks for years with that setup and they work great. Larger trucks that have on-spot or automatic chain systems only affect the inside wheels and not the outside, but they're not as effective as true tire chains. In short, I'd say go ahead and chain up the outside tires.


I should add that if you're chaining up a dual rear tire, make very certain that there's enough clearance between the tires for the chains. If your tires are too close together, not only will it be tough to get the chains on and off, you can certainly damage your tires if they rub.


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## meborder

Red02F250;1397168 said:


> I should add that if you're chaining up a dual rear tire, make very certain that there's enough clearance between the tires for the chains. If your tires are too close together, not only will it be tough to get the chains on and off, you can certainly damage your tires if they rub.


For what it's worth, i have seen chains for duals. it looked like they span both tires from the inside of the inner to the outside of the outter. I'm sure the cost is considerably more, but i have seen them.


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## justme-

They do make dual wheel chains that have 3 side chains, you do not want a chain that has cross chains that run the whole width of both tires- the forces on that long a chain will cause them to wear real fast and when they break bad things will happen.

DO NOT air down your front tires with the plow on, with or without chains. You want the proper air pressure to handle the weight of the plow!


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## birddseedd

leolkfrm;1375113 said:


> weight at the back of the bed would help!...between the tailgate and wheel well gives the most benifit with less weight


i second this.


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## Mbrule

birddseedd;1432018 said:


> i second this.


X3, I plow with a F350 with 8' Blade, the blade manufacturer recommends about 650 lbs behind the rear axle for 'ballast', this helps offset the weight of the plow on the front end and also aids in traction.

That and good SNOW Tires, not all season, SNOW!

Also if possibly, plow with the storm, plow only a few inches at a time. I am not sure what part of the country you are in, but in most cases the above things will suffice, unless it is a drive that never melts off so it is always icy?

My .02


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## dcwn.45

I have done a bunch of winter 4 wheeling in a 1/2 ton dodge w/ 33" tires and the saying in montana is"you need a good chained up truck to get back there.......................,.,,,or a rental car!
Chaining up all 4 is unbelievable, everyone should try it at least once


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## theholycow

Bump...


bstout;1378588 said:


> My Tundra owners manual says to put chains on the rear only. I reached my hand in behind the top of the front wheel and I've got about 11/16th clearance (calibrated finger) between the tire and the suspension. I've got a good inch around the back tire for clearance.
> 
> At this point I think I'm going to put a good quality V bar chain on the back tires and throw a few hundred pounds in the back close to the tail gate. I'm apprehensive about placing cable chains (or anything else) on the front after looking in my owners manual.
> 
> What say...anyone?





theholycow;1378647 said:


> Sounds like a reasonable plan. Try it out. If it's not enough, you can add the front cable chains. If it is enough then you save money and avoid disobeying the manual.


bstout, a year later do you have any thoughts to add? I now find myself in exactly the same situation, considering front chains but my 2002 GMC Sierra 1500's owner's manual says not to. The other day I found myself repeatedly sliding sideways down my driveway into the road while trying to plow...it's a very low-traffic road, low-speed, and it was 11pm, but next time there could be a vehicle coming that can't stop. As such, I feel that what I really need is chains on the front to steer and stop downhill. Also I wasn't able to back up my driveway, only drive forward, and front chains would have cured that.


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## dneiding

Here are the ones I have: http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-0232...5?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1357008056&sr=1-15

I love them. You can put them on in about 60 seconds (once you untangle them). They self-center and self-tighten.


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## theholycow

theholycow;1552746 said:


> bstout, a year later do you have any thoughts to add? I now find myself in exactly the same situation, considering front chains but my 2002 GMC Sierra 1500's owner's manual says not to.


Update: I was able to PM another user who reported using 4 chains on a 99-02 GM 1500 just like mine and he PM'd back. He said that the issue is just a matter of all the stuff that can get damaged if the chain breaks loose. That makes sense as there seems to be plenty of clearance. Nice, all I have to do is double up on bungees as a failsafe and I ought to be fine...there's nothing there that I can't fix (though I wouldn't want to, especially out in the snow). And, of course, I'll only be using them when necessary (in my own yard when it's bad).


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## birddseedd




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## mnglocker

birddseedd;1553642 said:


>


That's not the same idea as chains.

the massive voids between cross sections and 5/8 to 3/4" of metal often carbide edge biting in is what really makes the difference.


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## birddseedd

mnglocker;1554025 said:


> That's not the same idea as chains.
> 
> the massive voids between cross sections and 5/8 to 3/4" of metal often carbide edge biting in is what really makes the difference.


honeslty i dont think i could ever bring myself to use chains. knowing the utter damage it causes to the pavement. thus why you cannot use them in michigan.

course on dirt roads it would be usefull


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## mnglocker

birddseedd;1554045 said:


> honeslty i dont think i could ever bring myself to use chains. knowing the utter damage it causes to the pavement. thus why you cannot use them in michigan.
> 
> course on dirt roads it would be usefull


If you're not spinning out, you're not doing much damage at all. It's cold, the pavement is super hard. And FYI, tire chains are legal in all 50 states when conditions call for it.


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## pldann86

birddseedd;1553642 said:


>


The music sounds like their made in china


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## brimfield

I had to use chains one year on my 2002 2500 Silverado. I got cam lock v chains and never went over 10 mph on my ¼ mile drive. I have the driveway from hell that 3 guys would not plow for money due to the risks ie down hill curves and narrow. One year we got a Ko storm of 20" on top of existing snow so my banks were high. I got stuck good and went out and got chains. Night and day with them I put mine in the rear fearing stuff up front that a chain would kill. I had 800-900 lbs in the back with a 8' plow up front. I plowed all that winter with the chains, never took them off. This year I have a tractor to move banks back so no chains unless, I refuse to even think it!


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## TehTDK

Snow chains are rarely required here as long as you either a: drive on the major roads, and b: stay off the really really small backroads. That however being said I have always been told that you always chain up your driving axle, because without any tractions from the axle(s) that power your vehicle you get nowhere. 

Optionally chain up the remaining axles if the budget cuts it etc. But don't expect the same level of improvement as when you chained up your driving axle. 

AFAIK there is actual differentials that are neither LSD nor entirely locking. You can get ie Torsen differentials (installed on the HMMWV's), which can transfer 1-4x the traction of one wheel to the other on the same axle depending on slippage etc.

That being said I intend to get airlockers for the truck I eventually want to get . 6x6 all locked up and I would think I am pretty well to go.


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## birddseedd

TehTDK;1570626 said:


> Snow chains are rarely required here as long as you either a: drive on the major roads, and b: stay off the really really small backroads. That however being said I have always been told that you always chain up your driving axle, because without any tractions from the axle(s) that power your vehicle you get nowhere.
> 
> Optionally chain up the remaining axles if the budget cuts it etc. But don't expect the same level of improvement as when you chained up your driving axle.
> 
> AFAIK there is actual differentials that are neither LSD nor entirely locking. You can get ie Torsen differentials (installed on the HMMWV's), which can transfer 1-4x the traction of one wheel to the other on the same axle depending on slippage etc.
> 
> That being said I intend to get *airlockers *for the truck I eventually want to get . 6x6 all locked up and I would think I am pretty well to go.


what is (bolded text above) ?


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## TehTDK

birddseedd;1570861 said:


> what is (bolded text above) ?


Airlockers is locking differentials that are actuated via air. Means that you flip a switch inside the cab, sending pressurised air into the differential forcing the gears to interlock and thus make both axles turn at the same speed like a normal locking differential. ARB along with a few others makes these.

Does that help?


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## jasonv

TehTDK;1570913 said:


> Airlockers is locking differentials that are actuated via air. Means that you flip a switch inside the cab, sending pressurised air into the differential forcing the gears to interlock and thus make both axles turn at the same speed like a normal locking differential. ARB along with a few others makes these.
> 
> Does that help?


Another way of putting this is... they are exactly the same as an electric solenoid locker, but with the added complexity of running on air pressure instead, which dramatically increases the cost by forcing you into also adding an air compressor.


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## TehTDK

jasonv;1572338 said:


> Another way of putting this is... they are exactly the same as an electric solenoid locker, but with the added complexity of running on air pressure instead, which dramatically increases the cost by forcing you into also adding an air compressor.


Unless the truck already has one, which the one I am looking at getting has . But I wasn't actually aware that there was electrically actuated diffs. I thought there was only really airlockers and then a stuff like detroit lockers


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## theholycow

I put a pair of low-profile diamond chains on my fronts. I have a pair of V-bar chains but didn't need them...my truck's like a freakin tank with just the front chains. I can go slow, well controlled, in any direction, steering any way, up my steep driveway. WIN! 

Before, I'd plow down, stop, and be unable to back away from my pile, have trouble getting back up the driveway, and a few times just creeping down and stopping failed and the truck would slide sideways down into the street.


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## birddseedd

i wouldnt mind getting some chains. im sick of getting stuck


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## doh

theholycow;1553620 said:


> Update: I was able to PM another user who reported using 4 chains on a 99-02 GM 1500 just like mine and he PM'd back. He said that the issue is just a matter of all the stuff that can get damaged if the chain breaks loose. That makes sense as there seems to be plenty of clearance. Nice, all I have to do is double up on bungees as a failsafe and I ought to be fine...there's nothing there that I can't fix (though I wouldn't want to, especially out in the snow). And, of course, I'll only be using them when necessary (in my own yard when it's bad).


Double up and "Slow Down" Not only is there a chance of a chain breaking, but the matter of Driveline Breaking.

You will push snow with chains, alot of it. But it is harder on the truck.

My choice for Lake Plowing, V Bar on all 4's


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## birddseedd

is there something other than chains that can help? im not into digging chains into my customers pavement


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## theholycow

So, update...with deeper snow and heavier pushes, I managed to find the limits of my front low-clearance diamond chains. Ran out of traction a couple times but nowhere near worth the effort of chaining the rears, just a minor amount of momentum or change of strategy needed.



birddseedd;1591557 said:


> is there something other than chains that can help? im not into digging chains into my customers pavement


Locking differentials (not limited-slip, but actual manual locking), brand new premium genuine snow tires (not all-season) in a narrower size, and plenty of ballast. Lockers and tires are a lot more expensive than chains though.


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## brimfield

My v chins were the only way I did my driveway this am. I have V chains but I don't know how they would be on main roads..


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## birddseedd

brimfield;1591944 said:


> My v chins were the only way I did my driveway this am. I have V chains but I don't know how they would be on main roads..


using chains does not grind up their pavement?


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## theholycow

Put my V-chains on after I broke one of my front diamond chains. Those things have some SERIOUS bite.


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## jasonv

TehTDK;1572383 said:


> Unless the truck already has one, which the one I am looking at getting has . But I wasn't actually aware that there was electrically actuated diffs. I thought there was only really airlockers and then a stuff like detroit lockers


Toyota's factory lockers are electric. There's a servo on the rear diff on "TRD Offroad" models to engage the locker.


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## jasonv

theholycow;1591600 said:


> Locking differentials (not limited-slip, but actual manual locking), brand new premium genuine snow tires (not all-season) in a narrower size, and plenty of ballast. Lockers and tires are a lot more expensive than chains though.


How about plowing with the storm? Should save the need for chains....


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## theholycow

jasonv;1593965 said:


> How about plowing with the storm? Should save the need for chains....


Agreed, but it's not always possible. For example, towns that failed to plow with last weekend's blizzard and left 3 feet of snow on the road...that means can't get to your clients. Or how about when your truck breaks, and by the time you fix it there's 2 feet of snow. Or you can't find anyone you trust to drive your truck but you're too damned tired from plowing and the storm's still going. Or you were out of town when it started. Or you had to take your wife to the hospital.

Edit: Or when you were out plowing for the state for the whole storm, and now it's time to do your own driveway.

On steep surfaces, plowing with the storm often doesn't help. You get there when there's an inch and you're sliding all over the place, can't climb, etc. You plow down instead of up but you can't even back away from the pile.

Plowing with the storm is very important but it doesn't cure all traction ills. Plow trucks end up in situations where they need more traction than vehicles doing other jobs in better conditions.


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## birddseedd

theholycow;1593983 said:


> Agreed, but it's not always possible. For example, towns that failed to plow with last weekend's blizzard and left 3 feet of snow on the road...that means can't get to your clients. Or how about when your truck breaks, and by the time you fix it there's 2 feet of snow. Or you can't find anyone you trust to drive your truck but you're too damned tired from plowing and the storm's still going. Or you were out of town when it started. Or you had to take your wife to the hospital.
> 
> Edit: Or when you were out plowing for the state for the whole storm, and now it's time to do your own driveway.
> 
> On steep surfaces, plowing with the storm often doesn't help. You get there when there's an inch and you're sliding all over the place, can't climb, etc. You plow down instead of up but you can't even back away from the pile.
> 
> Plowing with the storm is very important but it doesn't cure all traction ills. Plow trucks end up in situations where they need more traction than vehicles doing other jobs in better conditions.


The issue is not really how much snow is on the ground. its more how much ice. the plow is in front and you have no snow under your tires. but ice will remain. that is when you need chains.


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## theholycow

birddseedd;1594007 said:


> The issue is not really how much snow is on the ground. its more how much ice. the plow is in front and you have no snow under your tires. but ice will remain. that is when you need chains.


jasonv's point is valid; how much snow is on the ground may not affect traction, but deeper snow means you need to push more snow. With less snow to push you need less traction to push it.


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## birddseedd

theholycow;1594020 said:


> jasonv's point is valid; how much snow is on the ground may not affect traction, but deeper snow means you need to push more snow. With less snow to push you need less traction to push it.


is true. although i still would not want to put marks on my clients pavement.


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## brimfield

birddseedd;1591945 said:


> using chains does not grind up their pavement?


I will let you know when my driveway melts down. But in short I think my v chains are bound to leave marks as said I'll let you know. As far as less aggressive chains? I also thought of the cable type but I doubt they would hold up to serious plowing. If you have a normal plowing storm chains never slip.In 4 low I had to shift into neutral yesterday because the truck just wanted to go. This was the first storm that hit me so bad. Plowed at 9pm, 6" and had white out after that. got up in the am and I had 28" and all the snow drifted back in my drive. I have some berms right next to my drive that I need to take out, they hold snow.


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## BWSwede

Putting chains only on the front is fine if your are just driving up/down your long steep driveway. If you put chains only on the front and are driving on public roads you are looking for trouble.

Chains on the front work incredibly well (assuming you have a drive axle in front), almost too well. When cruising down the road and a turn is made the front of the vehicle goes right where you want it as if you are driving on bare asphalt. The rear on the vehicle is another story. With just a little too much speed when turning the rear end breaks loose and goes into a slide. A 180-270 degree spin can happen in a flash.

Chains and studded tires are used a lot around here. Due to major tire chain only installing studs on the front of a car the car did just what describe above. They customers sued the tire shop and won. Now tire shops around here will only put studs on the rear or on all 4, never just on the front.

BWSwede


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## brimfield

BWSwede;1610885 said:


> Putting chains only on the front is fine if your are just driving up/down your long steep driveway. If you put chains only on the front and are driving on public roads you are looking for trouble.
> 
> Chains on the front work incredibly well (assuming you have a drive axle in front), almost too well. When cruising down the road and a turn is made the front of the vehicle goes right where you want it as if you are driving on bare asphalt. The rear on the vehicle is another story. With just a little too much speed when turning the rear end breaks loose and goes into a slide. A 180-270 degree spin can happen in a flash.
> 
> Chains and studded tires are used a lot around here. Due to major tire chain only installing studs on the front of a car the car did just what describe above. They customers sued the tire shop and won. Now tire shops around here will only put studs on the rear or on all 4, never just on the front.
> 
> BWSwede


X2!
I put 2 snows on the front of a front wheel drive car and spun out 1st storm. After all 4 tires had snows I had what was almost a 4wd Chevy Corsica that went in snow that other cars could got burried in.


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## jomofo

I might be the first person in the history of plowsite to vote AGAINST v-bar chains. I bought a set at the recommendation of the board back in 2008. The first year was okay... No major failures - but I did slip a link once or twice toward the end of the season. Year 2 was a disaster. I couldn't drive 100 yards without breaking a chain. One night in particular - we were in the middle of a 3 footer... had gotten about a foot during the day and shaping up for two more in the next 24 hours. I was out plowing my route around 9pm and heard the dreaded *SLAP SLAP SLAP*. I stop and get out and had slipped a cross link on the passenger side front chain. I drop the chain, go home, fire up the torch and pliers, reassemble the chain, inspect the rest of the links, everything seems okay, put the chain back on and head out. Made it about back to where I slipped the link and slipped another link. Rinse and repeat. It ended up being 1am by the time I was done. 

What I came to realize was that the skinny chains were really not built to withstand mixed dirt road where they'd dig in sometimes and hit rocks sometimes. Also, the v-bars were way TOO aggressive for dirt roads when they did dig in. I could dig a hole in an instant without even rocking the truck. 

In the fall of season 3 on the v-bars, already knowing I was at risk of breaking something, I was out plowing a big fall storm and put a tire over the edge. It should have been an easy recovery, but the v-bars just tore the **** out of the dirt and didn't grab. Not only that, but a cross link slipped and jammed, which separated a side link, which effectively tied the chain around the tire. I didn't have my bolt cutters with my, but I did have my electric saws-all, which I used to cut the chain off, miraculously without damaging the tire. I actually managed to self-recover with the chains OFF!

The next day, I drove down the hill and bought a set of pewag square link chains, and since then, life has been great. TBH, I cringed when I saw the bill. I forget now exactly what they cost me but it was >$200 for each set. But now, I put the chains on, and the truck is a tank. The links in every position are so much stronger than any link in the v-bar setup, and the big square link gives me the perfect amount of contact patch and edge bite. Don't dig holes - don't break chains - don't lose traction - it's awesome. Not to mention, the cam tighteners go on easier and work 10X better than any setup I had with ratchet straps or bungees for the v-bars. 

On the subject of front vs. rear - Front First! My setup is lsd front/rear and it's a heavy truck... The plow is 950# with the mount, and I have a 250# box + tools, and about 1500# of sand. All told, about 10,000#. Even with all that weight - there are some weird side hill spots and steep grades to climb, and invariably, in the spring I'll get a 16" dump on mud. In those instances, I'll chain up the rear as well. 

By the time the v-bars failed, I was starting to HATE having to plow. Every trip out was a hassle and a few were downright disasterous.. Pewag chains have restored the enjoyment I get out of plowing and I feel confident when I get in the truck that things will work as expected. wesport


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