# Commerical Snow Plowing



## bobcatboy06 (Nov 3, 2006)

If you are plowing a lot in PA that is around 200,000 square ft what would you rates be for 

2-4in
4-6 in.
6-8 in.
8-10 in.
10-12 in.
$$ Per inch above 12 in.

Thanks, 

Bobcatboy06


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## IndySnowPlow (Dec 30, 2004)

Bobcat..thats a "wide open" question...more details would be nice.


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## bobcatboy06 (Nov 3, 2006)

Alright well we are bidding a lot that is probably closer to 300,000 sq ft the lot will need both entrances plowed and all snow removed from sidewalks around fire hydrants and away from gas meter, also loading docks need to be cleared. The lot needs to be plowed every time you have 1in of snow or more, the downside is that you only get paid once every 24hrs even if you plow 5 times. You can used salt of comparable de-icing product for the parking lot, however you have to use a calcium chloride for the side walks I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for a price for a lot of this size for plowing and salting all areas.

I need to give them rates for

0"-2"
2"-4"
4"-6"
6"-8"
10"-12"
12" plus

If anyone has any insight could you please let me know

Thanks,

Bobcatboy06


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

This works out to almost seven acres. It has sidewalks, fire hydrants and loading docks. You don't even know for sure the measurements of the area. It needs special attention. Do you really expect someone to give you a price, sight unseen when you don't have a clue? Maybe you should pass on this one until you've got some experience.


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## bobcatboy06 (Nov 3, 2006)

We are looking at 291,230 sq ft for the for the size of the parking lot the sidewalk is only on the front side of the building which is 4,700 sq ft. I wouldn't be responsible for shoveling in-front of the two entrances, which are along the sidewalk There is only one loading area in the back of the building which has four bays, you can basically come right down the side of the building and clear it out. There aren't many obstacles in the parking lot other than light post which are spread out nicely, there are no islands front of the lot is 625x325, back is 625x45, right side is 45x250, left side is 70x250, and the side walk is 470x10. So I would be salting 291,230 with salt and 4700 with calcium. I would be putting two trucks with a 10ft plow and an 8.5ft plow at this location. I'm just looking for some figures, because i'm not used to this type of bidding price per sq foot that is. 


Thanks, 


Bobcatboy06


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

bobcatboy06 said:


> If you are plowing a lot in PA that is around 200,000 square ft what would you rates be for
> 
> 2-4in
> 4-6 in.
> ...


i'd price it high enough to make a good profit.


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## bobcatboy06 (Nov 3, 2006)

Yea i posted that hoping to get some reply out of some people it seems to take awhile to get the ball rolling around here.



Bobcatboy06


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## bugthug (Oct 13, 2004)

What part of PA?


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## bobcatboy06 (Nov 3, 2006)

I'm around an hour eastward of pittsburgh.



Bobcatboy06


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## bugthug (Oct 13, 2004)

Blairsville?


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## bobcatboy06 (Nov 3, 2006)

Maybe thats not the important part the important part is that I need some answers to my questions.


Bobcatboy06


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## Rcgm (Dec 17, 2000)

bobcatboy06 said:


> If you are plowing a lot in PA that is around 200,000 square ft what would you rates be for
> 
> 2-4in
> 4-6 in.
> ...


First thing I would suggest.I will repeat that I would suggest some might not agree.But the increments you have are 2-4 4-6 6-8 . I don't like to bid this way because say we get a 4 inch snow fall which price do you think they want to pay?You got it the 2-4 which you are expecting them to pay the 4-6 price.I bid 2-4 then a price for every inch there after.It is cut and dry no questions asked no one feels screwed.Get us a aerial view and we could get you a answer.It is just hard to give you a answer not knowing or every seen this property.Just think of it like this 2000 chevy 2500 ext cab 19 thousand dollars.Would you make a offer off that?NO.You have questions how many miles?Any rust?Tranny shift good?And so on.It is not hard to get answers here just everyone here knows better than to just throw out numbers we want to help and be accurate for you.

RCGM
Brad


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## Rcgm (Dec 17, 2000)

Just read post again.They want a price for SQ ft? I have never bid like this before or been asked to.Who are you doing this for?Them directly?It sounds to me like a U.S Maintenance deal to me?


RCGM
Brad


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## bobcatboy06 (Nov 3, 2006)

The bid is for a place called FHG Companies/About time snow I understand what you are saying about the incruments, this is just what they are giving me to go off of, I have personally never done a bid like this either. It seems strange to be but what can ya do. 


Bobcatboy06


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## Rcgm (Dec 17, 2000)

bobcatboy06 said:


> The bid is for a place called FHG Companies/About time snow I understand what you are saying about the incruments, this is just what they are giving me to go off of, I have personally never done a bid like this either. It seems strange to be but what can ya do.
> 
> Bobcatboy06


Have you done work for them in the past? Or did they call you from a ad? I get those calls from companys in other states I just pass on them.I spent some time bidding a property for them I came up with 2-4 inch 860 dollars then 100 a inch there after and they were at 380 for a 2-4 inch I laughed at the guy and told him to quit wasting a true snow plowing professionals time hehe

RCGM
Brad


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## bobcatboy06 (Nov 3, 2006)

They called me about bidding on it i'm having a hard time finding and aerial view its a Home Depot store I believe all of them at basically the same.


Bobcatboy06


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## Allor Outdoor (Oct 30, 2006)

bobcatboy06 said:


> They called me about bidding on it i'm having a hard time finding and aerial view its a Home Depot store I believe all of them at basically the same.
> 
> Bobcatboy06


Bobcatboy,
Based on past experience for Home Depots (the company that i use to work for did all of the plowing and salting for all the Home Depots in the state of Michigan). We would typically put 1 F-350 pick up with an 8ft blade and 1 dump truck with a 10-12ft blade at each site. The pick up would go around all of the islands, light poles, loading docks, dumpsters, etc while the dump truck would focus mainly on the large main lot. For a full application of salt we would usually spread 2.5-3.5 ton. I know some might say that it is to much but for a store like Home Depot, they would rather have to much rather than to little based on the amount of foot traffic that they have each day.
It would on average take us 4 hours to plow and salt each site.

Our accounts with Home Depot called for the lot to be cleared even if it was only a dusting, or hell even if a puddle was going to freeze over a dry night. 2 years ago we were sending salt trucks out 4-5 nights a week, even if there hadn't been any precipitation...just to make sure that wasn't any "meltdown/refreeze".

I do have some pricing information that might be of help to you, but prefer not to post it on here. If you are interested in it, please email me at [email protected].


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## bobcatboy06 (Nov 3, 2006)

I got in touch with you through your email


Bobcatboy06


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## BreyerConstruct (Aug 17, 2004)

Anyone have an update regarding Home Depot's or FHG Companies/About time snow?

We're looking at a few of their properties, and have no desire to get screwed!

BTW, why would anyone wait till the middle of December to line up snow removal??????


~Matt


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

BreyerConstruct;331776 said:


> BTW, why would anyone wait till the middle of December to line up snow removal??????~Matt


Just a guess, but they expected last year's low quote again this year. Unfortunately, the guy went out of the snowplow business cause "there's no money in it".

Happened around here this year. The trouble I'm having is when his old customers call me, they're getting "sticker shock". He was plowing for less than 1/4 of what I do. (right, one fourth). So far, I haven't gotten any of his old customers. I really don't know what they're doing.


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## BreyerConstruct (Aug 17, 2004)

Hmm,

Yea, I've gotten this responce before! A large local bank couldn't figure out last year why the cheep plower had gone out of business. 

So, anyone else know anything specific about this company?

~Matt


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

You might not like some of the questions being asked of you, but it does make a difference what part of PA you are in. Erie plowing is going for $45-$50\hour, who knows what Pittsburgh or Philly are going for. 

In answer to your initial question--too late, I know--only you can give prices for this lot. Because no one on this site has your business, your equipment, your labor rates, your insurance, your rent, your utilites, etc, etc. 

Maybe ask for times, but not pricing. If I may be so bold, if you don't know how to price it, you probably shouldn't be bidding it. JMO


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## BreyerConstruct (Aug 17, 2004)

Mark,

Just to clarify, I'm not looking for pricing help. I feel pretty confident in my numbers & timing at this point. Salt I could use a little help figuring out, but that's not too hard. 

I usually work for many single property owners, and not as many management companies. Not all are bad, but they do seem to have their pitfalls. I've never heard of "FHG Companies/About time snow" and that was why I posted on this thread. Why bother working up numbers & getting all rushed if the company isn't worth doing business with?

FWIW, on this Home Depot I'm figuring it at 4 truck hours to plow it, with a shoveler/ snowblower running at the same time clearing around the building & sidewalk. I recognize that there will be service during business hours, and I haven't worked those times out yet. Honestly, I'm not "sold" on this property, and I'm not rushing it.

Again, just snooping for info on this company, and Home Depot (since they hired them).

Mark, no offense taken though for the last comment! I respect your opinions & experience, and know where you're coming from on this. BTW, I was just up your way for Thanksgiving. If it hadn't been so rushed (drove in & drove out quickly) I was going to give you a call & buy you a coffee! LOL I enjoy networking with other quality contractors.

Ok, back to the regularly scheduled topic......
Anyone else have any thoughts on the thread subject or this particular PMC?

~Matt


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## BreyerConstruct (Aug 17, 2004)

"Erie plowing is going for $45-$50\hour, who knows what Pittsburgh or Philly are going for."

Around here it's $45-$120 per man/truck hour. Just depends if you have a truck, have a plow, and have this great idea about how to make some extra $$, ... or if you're established with a good reputation & good clients. 

~Matt


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## BobC (Nov 5, 2004)

Anybody shopping this late either is pretending it will nevewr snow or haven't liked any prices and are waiting for somebody to do charity work for them. I have a trucking terminal that asks for a bid every year and they go with someone who doesn't salt and is therefore cheaper then call after they can't get their trucks out. I explain that proper service would be cheaper in the long run instead of winching fees and late or delayed deliveries but he is governed by a mismanagement company that doesn't even know what ice, snow and freezing weather are about. Not to worry the trucks should get out by July. LOL


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## Runner (Jul 21, 2000)

bobcatboy06;316984 said:


> They called me about bidding on it i'm having a hard time finding and aerial view its a Home Depot store I believe all of them at basically the same.
> 
> Bobcatboy06


Where is this HD? Do you have an address? Even the road it's on would do....We can look on HD's website and find the address and go with goolgle earth or zillow.

As far as the increments go, I'll send you a PM on our formula.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Matt, I was referring to bobcatboy06. Too bad, it was nice weather over Thanksgiving, had time to spare then. 

Regarding About Time Snow, I see they were listed in the top 50 or 75 or 100 in the latest snow magazine, not that that means anything. Hadn't ever heard about them until this thread.


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## BreyerConstruct (Aug 17, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;332313 said:


> Matt, I was referring to bobcatboy06. Too bad, it was nice weather over Thanksgiving, had time to spare then.
> 
> Regarding About Time Snow, I see they were listed in the top 50 or 75 or 100 in the latest snow magazine, not that that means anything. Hadn't ever heard about them until this thread.


Mark,

I ended up making the 12 hour drive on only a brief nap (worked a full day before we left).
I pretty much slept the whole time I I wasn't eating! LOL ah, well. maybe next time, eh?

I know many larger properties go thru management companies, and the income potential is impressive, but there's this nagging hesitation in the back of my head about it all. I mean, there's no loyalty to their business. How many of us have seen local properties go from PMC to PMC to PMC? I know that at least for us, it's nice to work with the owner, because you can understand their needs, and have time to work & Improve your services. If every year you're on a different property, a different PMC, a different goofy contract... How can you preform at your best???

OK, off the soapbox. 

~Matt


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## bobcatboy06 (Nov 3, 2006)

I bid the Home Depot in the Johnstown area for what I felt was a fair price I did my research on it. I never heard anything back from the lady I was working with, she said that they would be calling to discuss our prices after I faxed our information over to them. They must have got someone to plow the location, it snowed the other day I drove by to see who was plowing. I didn't recognize the trucks. If anyone got any work from the FHG companies can you post your rates so I can see how high I was for future purpose.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

bobcatboy06;333487 said:


> If anyone got any work from the FHG companies can you post your rates so I can see how high I was for future purpose.


Once again, it does not matter what someone else charges because plowing rates are completely and totally area dependent. Not to mention based on YOUR company's costs.

I've stated this several times, if I drive 30 miles west, prices are based on $35-40\hour\truck. In my area, prices are based on anywhere's from $60-$150\hour\truck. *YOU* need to determine *YOUR* costs and base *YOUR* prices on that, not everybody else. Assuming you want to be in business for any length of time.


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## kandklandscape0 (Sep 9, 2007)

FHG companies is ABOUT TIME SNOW. They filed Bankruptcy like 4 times, the plow company prior to this got screwed and they did not do the work no more, now a new company does it, Bobcatboy06, give me a call you know my number, i think I told you about this place before.


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## kandklandscape0 (Sep 9, 2007)

We bid on this site to, we bid $1200 a plow plus $450 to salt, the lowest bid was $490 to plow and $200 to salt, they will be filing bankruptcy along with FHG this year im sure!!!!! Once again, somebody prob saying there is no money in plowing!


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

*Don't think so....*

About Time Snow has not filed for bankruptcy. I did some work for them last year, and have some work with them this year. Actually Matt and I worked the wyomissing site last year. Yes they don't want to spend top dollar, but if you are fair with them, they will be fair with you.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

kandklandscape0;408355 said:


> We bid on this site to, we bid $1200 a plow plus $450 to salt, the lowest bid was $490 to plow and $200 to salt, they will be filing bankruptcy along with FHG this year im sure!!!!! Once again, somebody prob saying there is no money in plowing!


They're getting someone to plow for less than half of what it's worth. Maybe they charged the client more than your bid, but got someone to plow for less than half of that and salt for half. With numbers like that, why would they be filing bankruptcy?


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## Kramer (Nov 13, 2004)

bobcatboy06;316903 said:


> We are looking at 291,230 sq ft for the for the size of the parking lot the sidewalk is only on the front side of the building which is 4,700 sq ft. I wouldn't be responsible for shoveling in-front of the two entrances, which are along the sidewalk There is only one loading area in the back of the building which has four bays, you can basically come right down the side of the building and clear it out. There aren't many obstacles in the parking lot other than light post which are spread out nicely, there are no islands front of the lot is 625x325, back is 625x45, right side is 45x250, left side is 70x250, and the side walk is 470x10. So I would be salting 291,230 with salt and 4700 with calcium. I would be putting two trucks with a 10ft plow and an 8.5ft plow at this location. I'm just looking for some figures, because i'm not used to this type of bidding price per sq foot that is.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bobcatboy06


You said you were comfortable with how long it will take you...if so, then applying that to your normal rate should give you the 1 push price.

For the guy that bid $300/plow, then at a 5 hr plow thats $60/hr (1 truck only). Can you clear that place in 5hrs per push?? I would assume that the $300 plow was for the first depth level of ~1-3 inches. He should use a multiple after that for deeper snow.

FYI, I know a guy who does 1/2 mile of linear driveway 20 ft wide, 3 loading docks, 3 parking areas ~30 x 80 each for $160 at the 1-3" level. He's still in business for 3 years now and he's buying new equipmnt as necessary. I'm not saying its right, but he's the proof its doable. AND, he's got some nice equipment and at least a 3 guy crew.

You're gonna need about 3600 lbs of salt per application at a couple hrs time.


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## Duracutter (Oct 25, 2006)

bobcatboy06;316523 said:


> If you are plowing a lot in PA that is around 200,000 square ft what would you rates be for
> 
> 2-4in
> 4-6 in.
> ...


I may surprise you, but why not quote it by the hour? I know, you'll lose many quotes, but the ones you get, you make good payup

??


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

I'd never bid anything by the hour. I don't know how yours comes out, but mine works out to over $400 an hour for time spent on-site ($35 to plow a site that takes five minutes).


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Duracutter;410732 said:
 

> I may surprise you, but why not quote it by the hour? I know, you'll lose many quotes, but the ones you get, you make good payup
> 
> ??


It may surprise you, but bidding by the hour does not reward efficiency and restricts you to only making your hourly rate. No matter what. Every time.


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## Duracutter (Oct 25, 2006)

Mark Oomkes;411159 said:


> It may surprise you, but bidding by the hour does not reward efficiency and restricts you to only making your hourly rate. No matter what. Every time.


It's a valid point. Some guys have a hard time quoting. Our business has been doing snow for about 15 years and I've been bidding that long, so I don't have that problem.

For parking lots, we still do them by the hour cause here the customers don't have a choice. It's been too busy for everybody and it's hard for property managers to find a contractor interested in doing their work.

By the hour assures us good coin, travel time, and all the perks including going slower so we don't break or damage equipment. I even have a man follow each bobcat to act as a safety for vehicles moving around the condo sites. That one man carries a shovel to help and also brings in enough revenue by the hour to pay for everyones wages on that site.

I know that by the contract could bring in more, but honestly we make so much, who cares... we do the sidewalks by the contract and those pay very well. Until things change around here, we'll just do it this way. I know it may be hard to understand from where you stand, but here in Alberta we're raking in the money, literally..it's that hot of an economy.

The city here pays bobcats, graders and trucks a retainer for just hanging around in case it snows... payup


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## snowman2007 (Dec 8, 2007)

Jay
Feel your pain, looking for some imput on bidding sites!


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