# Settle a bet



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

I’m sitting here talking with few guys at
The brewery a couple of us say it’s OK To push snow across the road ?

Remembe there are a few beers on the line.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

How are you defining "ok"?

Legal?
Morally acceptable?

And is "across the street" on someone else's property? Public property?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Who's pulling up all the town ordinances for facts?

I'm saying wrong anyway. Unprofessional.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

It is against the law here to plow the road, side of the road or across the road. I should stop there but I dont always agree with the law.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> I'm sitting here talking with few guys at
> The brewery a couple of us say it's OK To push snow across the road ?
> 
> Remembe there are a few beers on the line.


Where's Cliff Clavin when you need him.... 
I don't know the law aboot it in CO, but I never push snow oof the property I'm plowing, public or private road it doesn't matter. It's not professional if you do


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Here in Jersey, it is a nono. In my opinion, the snow stays on the owners property.


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## Avalanche 2500 (Dec 31, 2015)

Legal I say no. We all do it, just don't leave a mess in the rd. Then u will have bugsy sitting in the window to call the locals. But we have to make a living !


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BUFF said:


> Where's Cliff Clavin when you need him....
> I don't know the law aboot it in CO, but I never push snow oof the property I'm plowing, public or private road it doesn't matter. It's not professional if you do


I do the same. Takes a little longer, but more professional. I do have 1 site where I push the end of the drive across the street, but there's a vacant lot there.
I see a bunch of JAs push out a drive and slowly raise their plow dumping it on the street. Had a municipal plow stop once, cause the guy plowing a lot across the street did it and they thought I did. Pointed to my pile at the back of my lot.
I gave them the info I saw on the truck so they could fine him.


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## Snowsled (Dec 22, 2018)

It is a county ordinance where I live, Ouray County Colorado, that you can not push across a roadway. In my subdivision alone I have to drive through debris from several neighbors doing just that on the cty road. Mostly people doing their own and using a blower or ATV. Drives me nuts! I admit late one night I plowed some back into a drive. I am sick of how rough it makes the road.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Snowsled said:


> Ouray County Colorado.


Pretty county over there, use to do a bunch of 4wheeling there 30yrs ago. Would camp on the Lake City side and work our way over the top to Ouray.


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## the Suburbanite (Jan 27, 2018)

Snowsled said:


> It is a county ordinance where I live, Ouray County Colorado, that you can not push across a roadway. In my subdivision alone I have to drive through debris from several neighbors doing just that on the cty road. Mostly people doing their own and using a blower or ATV. Drives me nuts! I admit late one night I plowed some back into a drive. I am sick of how rough it makes the road.


I was driving thru Ouray in the mid/late 90's on my way to my buddy's in Hermosa. I came into town a little hot eager to get on the twisties of the Pass. My heart sank as I realized there was a sherrif's car at the curb. I laid on the breaks, and as I got closer Jerry Wakefield was standing on the curb, giving me the universal "slow down" gesture. I nervously waved at him, he waved back, and I slowly made my way out of town.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Billings Montana Law

_City Code 22-406 also prohibits moving snow from private property on to public sidewalks, streets or alleys. If you notice someone moving snow from a private driveway or parking lot into or across a public road or sidewalk, please call the Code Enforcement Division Clerk, 237-6146, or the City's non-emergency line, 657-8200, to report the activity. It is difficult to enforce this provision after-the-fact. 
_
https://ci.billings.mt.us/1619/Snow-Removal


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Billings Montana Law
> 
> _City Code 22-406 also prohibits moving snow from private property on to public sidewalks, streets or alleys. If you notice someone moving snow from a private driveway or parking lot into or across a public road or sidewalk, please call the Code Enforcement Division Clerk, 237-6146, or the City's non-emergency line, 657-8200, to report the activity. It is difficult to enforce this provision after-the-fact.
> _
> https://ci.billings.mt.us/1619/Snow-Removal


Well, that just says that it's illegal. But is it "Ok"? You know, like Jay walking, cable TV piracy, and tax evasion?


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## the Suburbanite (Jan 27, 2018)

cwren2472 said:


> Well, that just says that it's illegal. But is it "Ok"? You know, like Jay walking, cable TV piracy, and tax evasion?


New Green Plowing


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> Well, that just says that it's illegal. But is it "Ok"? You know, like Jay walking, cable TV piracy, and tax evasion?


Take it for what you choose to. I just was citing the law...

It is illegal, unsafe to other motorists using the road that you are pushing across, and simply unprofessional. But outside of those things I would say it is A-OK. Thumbs Up


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> Billings Montana Law
> 
> _City Code 22-406 also prohibits moving snow from private property on to public sidewalks, streets or alleys. If you notice someone moving snow from a private driveway or parking lot into or across a public road or sidewalk, please call the Code Enforcement Division Clerk, 237-6146, or the City's non-emergency line, 657-8200, to report the activity. It is difficult to enforce this provision after-the-fact.
> _
> https://ci.billings.mt.us/1619/Snow-Removal


I see a lot of "trails"across roads where people have pushed snow across the road,
Just never heard about anyone getting a ticket

Ok, billings is 45 minutes away at 75mph.
We're out in the county.

Found this in the local paper it looks like there more laid back .

*No Go With Snow*
It has been brought to the City's attention that some of the private snowplowing contractors and/or residents have piled snow on the City's right-of-way. Although this would not normally cause an issue, they have had a large amount of snow and the piles now pose a threat to safety as they are blocking vision for road traffic and pedestrians.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Hydromaster said:


> I see a lot of "trails"across roads where people have pushed snow across the road,
> Just never heard about anyone getting a ticket
> 
> Ok, billings is 45 minutes away at 75mph.
> ...


Sorry, I thought you said in another thread you plowed or were looking to plow in Billings? That is why I searched Billings


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> Sorry, I thought you said in another thread you plowed or were looking to plow in Billings? That is why I searched Billings


I did because the population density is greater in Billings so I was hoping not to have to drive miles between accounts but then again everybody seems to have a plow truck or a tractor or something to clear the driveway around here so maybe I'll just keep plowing for a beer money and see what happens.

Oh maybe I get some flyers out and contact all these people with vacation rentals and maybe I can get occasional plow gig when they come to go skiing.

But looking at the numbers and things insurance is the part that's making it difficult to go legit


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Hydromaster said:


> I did because the population density is greater in Billings so I was hoping not to have to drive miles between accounts but then again everybody seems to have a plow truck or a tractor or something to clear the driveway around here so maybe I'll just keep plowing for a beer money and see what happens.
> 
> Oh maybe I get some flyers out and contact all these people with vacation rentals and maybe I can get occasional plow gig when they come to go skiing.
> 
> But looking at the numbers and things insurance is the part that's making it difficult to go legit


I remember now. "Barriers to Entry" thread. yep that is were I got it. My bad.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Hydromaster said:


> I did because the population density is greater in Billings so I was hoping not to have to drive miles between accounts but then again everybody seems to have a plow truck or a tractor or something to clear the driveway around here so maybe I'll just keep plowing for a beer money and see what happens.
> 
> Oh maybe I get some flyers out and contact all these people with vacation rentals and maybe I can get occasional plow gig when they come to go skiing.
> 
> But looking at the numbers and things insurance is the part that's making it difficult to go legit


There's a banned member who could help with mass mailing...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

EWSplow said:


> There's a banned member who could help with mass _*failing*_...


That's true


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Not only is pushing snow across a street illegal here, it's also laziness, wrong and against industry standards. You never put your clients snow on someone else's property.

That is unless the street is located within a condo/apartment/residential complex and "across the street" belongs to the entire complex.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I need more information...
How much is the bet worth and what is my cut...?


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Luther said:


> Not only is pushing snow across a street illegal here, it's also laziness, wrong and against industry standards. You never put your clients snow on someone else's property.
> 
> That is unless the street is located within a condo/apartment/residential complex and "across the street" belongs to the entire complex.


There are many reasons form this. I can give you one example:
I plow an apartment lot and everything gets pushed in, with the exception of the end of the drive. I push it out, then stack to the side.
There's a bank across the street. Their drive through is accessed just off an alley. The contractor who plows the bank, a sizable landscape company pushes the alley out to my side of the street. About 10' downstream of the drive I plow is a storm drain. They bury it every time. A couple times I didn't clean up after them and water backed up, leaving about 8" of ice at the end of my drive. Very frustrating.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mr.Markus said:


> I need more information...
> How much is the bet worth and what is my cut...?


It's 3 say it's fine to push the snow across the road, 1 says it is not.

The three of us who said it was fine would just be out in 1 pint , if the one that says it is not fine loses he'll be out three pints.

The towns nonchalant attitude towards it has been helping with the discussion.

I see the prevailing attitude is it's probably going to be a no, but I'm sure they would like to see it in print. I'll have to go look It up
At the carbon county rd department.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Hydromaster said:


> It's 3 say it's fine to push the snow across the road, 1 says it is not.
> 
> The three of us who said it was fine would just be out in 1 pint , if the one that says it is not fine loses he'll be out three pints.
> 
> ...


Carbon County MT

_1.15 It is not unusual for a County snowplow to block your driveway with snow during plowing. Remember, it is illegal to remove snow from your driveway into a County right-of-way. Find another location to store snow._
_
http://co.carbon.mt.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Carbon-Co-Code-of-the-West.pdf_


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> Carbon County MT
> 
> _1.15 It is not unusual for a County snowplow to block your driveway with snow during plowing. Remember, it is illegal to remove snow from your driveway into a County right-of-way. Find another location to store snow.
> 
> http://co.carbon.mt.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Carbon-Co-Code-of-the-West.pdf_


That was fast , thanks.
Even if it cost me a beer.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Hydromaster said:


> It's 3 say it's fine to push the snow across the road, 1 says it is not.
> 
> The three of us who said it was fine would just be out in 1 pint , if the one that says it is not fine loses he'll be out three pints.
> 
> ...


You and your friends are the slowest drinkers I haven't met...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> You and your friends are the slowest drinkers I haven't met...


You savor the flavor of a good pint...…. Cheap beer you swill in hopes of finishing it before you have to whizz.....


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Moving snow is just wrong on to someone else property, there is no avenues to it.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

FredG said:


> Moving snow is just wrong on to someone else property, there is no avenues to it.


Back on the devils lettuce....

If there's no avenues.... what aboot Streets, Roads, Circles, or Lanes?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I’d say plowing across public roads is one of the things that irritates me the most. Not just because it’s illegal, but because it makes you look like a district attorney. And a hack.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

BUFF said:


> Back on the devils lettuce....
> 
> If there's no avenues.... what aboot Streets, Roads, Circles, or Lanes?


 Lol :terribletowel:BTW I might of had a relapse.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I plow my road...pretty sure its against the law since I'm not contracted by the county to do so. Neighbors sure appreciate it. I even salt it. 

In a HOA I push snow onto neighbor's property. 

Guess some of you are right, I'm a hack.

BTW...I also speed, perform rolling stops and go through red lights during the night when traffic isn't present. 

And I related a story about getting a thank you from a cop for salting a public road for a stuck semi that was holding up traffic.

I'm a terrible person and plow jockey.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm a terrible person and plow jockey.


Sig line material right there.....


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I plow my road...pretty sure its against the law since I'm not contracted by the county to do so. Neighbors sure appreciate it. I even salt it.
> 
> In a HOA I push snow onto neighbor's property.
> 
> ...


I've been called worse than that, and not even snow related


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Sig line material right there.....


You're going to hurt my feelings...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You're going to hurt my feelings...



SKW


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You're going to hurt my feelings...


 Hurt your feelings? SKW.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

BUFF said:


> SKW


 Beat me to it. :laugh:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

FredG said:


> Hurt your feelings? SKW.


You don't believe me???


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You don't believe me???


 Only if you got a box of tissue. :laugh:


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

FredG said:


> Beat me to it. :laugh:


Devils lettuce with do that.....


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

BUFF said:


> Devils lettuce with do that.....


 Not a chance with the weed, but the Patron is a close second. :laugh:


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I plow my road...pretty sure its against the law since I'm not contracted by the county to do so. Neighbors sure appreciate it. I even salt it.
> 
> In a HOA I push snow onto neighbor's property.
> 
> ...


Such a rebel.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Such a rebel.


Just made an illegal left turn instead of using a Michigan left turn...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

BUFF said:


> You savor the flavor of a good pint...…. Cheap beer you swill in hopes of finishing it before you have to whizz.....


 Savor a kerosene PBR?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

FredG said:


> Savor a kerosene PBR?


Nope, they're swilling beers


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

BUFF said:


> Nope, they're swilling beers


 I guess I'm not a beer wizard but I don't remember savoring any beer, I want a buzz if it's old swill.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

There is one residential home I push into the street. I spin around on the road, and push the lump back up onto the property to the side of the driveway. I clean up to where there's nothing on the road from the property.

So, I guess for a minute or two, I'm breaking the law, then I make up for it by cleanup of the town's guys leftovers too.

3 or 4 cars pass, and the only way you know what I did is by the pile near the driveway side


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

At least you stop. Im a complete phyco after hrs.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Just made an illegal left turn instead of using a Michigan left turn...


I leaned on the horn at an senior making a left onto main St. She was infront of me and we had the advanced green. She.looked up and saw the red on main and decided she needed to stop. It's the same intersection, that red is for the other traffic so they don't hit you. She didn't care she sat there till it turned green and I looked like the fuming idiot when I should have just laughed.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> She didn't care she sat there till it turned green and I looked like the fuming idiot when I should have just laughed.


SKW.....blame the elderly women.......


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> I leaned on the horn at an senior making a left onto main St. She was infront of me and we had the advanced green. She.looked up and saw the red on main and decided she needed to stop. It's the same intersection, that red is for the other traffic so they don't hit you. She didn't care she sat there till it turned green and I looked like the fuming idiot when I should have just laughed.


I was behind someone taking their sweet time making a right turn. Initially I thought it was him just being cautious because he thought it was slippery so I didn't do anything. Then I looked closer...he was looking down at his phone...I love the air horns on the Sterling.


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## Jacobmb (Dec 3, 2013)

I started out putting snow anywhere I could. Across the street onto the city boulevard of a neighbors, feathered onto the roadway as I drove away, up against fire hydrants, up against non paying customers garage doors, up against any cars left on the roadway during the storm... (joking)

BUT then I realized I thought I was doing it to save time but the headaches from neighbor complaints from these shenanigans were wasting more time and it was just not worth doing. 

Now, snow only gets lowblue: back on to the customers property. This is actually more efficient to do, less headache with neighbors or potentially with the city and it is what separates the snow professionals from the wannaBees.

Don't do it, unless you literally have NO other options.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I was behind someone taking their sweet time making a right turn. Initially I thought it was him just being cautious because he thought it was slippery so I didn't do anything. Then I looked closer...he was looking down at his phone...I love the air horns on the Sterling.


My building trades teacher in high school and I were having a few beers years after I finished school while I was doing a side job with him. He told me how he leaned down to get something that fell on the floor of his van and bumped the horn while being the second one at a stoplight.

The guy was texting in front of him. Threw his phone down and canned it... right threw the red light. wham. T boned.

All my teacher said was " I felt so bad!" :laugh:


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> My building trades teacher in high school and I were having a few beers years after I finished school while I was doing a side job with him. He told me how he leaned down to get something that fell on the floor of his van and bumped the horn while being the second one at a stoplight.
> 
> The guy was texting in front of him. Threw his phone down and canned it... right threw the red light. wham. T boned.
> 
> All my teacher said was " I felt so bad!" :laugh:


Stupid is as stupid duz


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Plowed the neighbors' driveways into the street...then I plowed the street.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Plowed the neighbors' driveways into the street...then I plowed the street.


I did a couple of those. 
Restaurant on a corner with street parking. Street wasn't plowed. It is now. I did push it back on their property, around the corner .
Pushed a duplex drive out to the street, then down the block to a park. Even if the city made an attempt, which they didn't, there was only about 7' between cars parked on both sides of the street. Probably couldn't have done it with a truck. The jeep fit.
I guess I'm as unprofessional as you now. :laugh:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

EWSplow said:


> I did a couple of those.
> Restaurant on a corner with street parking. Street wasn't plowed. It is now. I did push it back on their property, around the corner .
> Pushed a duplex drive out to the street, then down the block to a park. Even if the city made an attempt, which they didn't, there was only about 7' between cars parked on both sides of the street. Probably couldn't have done it with a truck. The jeep fit.
> I guess I'm as unprofessional as you now. :laugh:


That's against the law...didn't you know?


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That's against the law...didn't you know?


It may have been, but the cop sitting by the park didn't object.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

EWSplow said:


> It may have been, but the cop sitting by the park didn't object.


Hack...


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

so, has this bet been settled?


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Hydromaster said:


> I'm sitting here talking with few guys at
> The brewery a couple of us say it's OK To push snow across the road ?
> 
> Remembe there are a few beers on the line.


So that answer is "no"
followed by "everything's legal as long as you don't get caught".
Every year there's "a guy" that does it.
It's like $1000 fine here. 
I terminated a guy for it once.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I plow my road...pretty sure its against the law since I'm not contracted by the county to do so. Neighbors sure appreciate it. I even salt it.
> 
> In a HOA I push snow onto neighbor's property.
> 
> ...


It's a little different than pushing snow into/across a road to make it easier or lesser your burden as a contractor... you're 
helping out" not "hindering"

Pushing snow across a road is akin to "illegal dumping"... actually plowing a road is a different issue (it may technically be illegal, but a lot less likely to catch you heat)


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

tpendagast said:


> Every year there's "a guy" that does it.
> It's like $1000 fine here.
> I terminated a guy for it once.


The only difference now is everything turns up on the internet via cellphone video these days.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

tpendagast said:


> It's a little different than pushing snow into/across a road to make it easier or lesser your burden as a contractor... you're
> helping out" not "hindering"
> 
> Pushing snow across a road is akin to "illegal dumping"... actually plowing a road is a different issue (it may technically be illegal, but a lot less likely to catch you heat)


Actually, now that I think about it...one of the driveways I plowed owns the property across the street.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

I try to feather it out into the road so it's not so noticeable, gradually raising my blade as I drive away....


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I try to feather out into the road so it's not so noticeable, gradually raising my blade as I drive away....


So ninja snow pile?

Nice


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

cwren2472 said:


> The only difference now is everything turns up on the internet via cellphone video these days.


I've has the city drive around looking for evidence of cross street pushes

They like to pick in bigger contractors
Deep pockets

They never bother Johnny side job , they wouldn't even know how to contact him.

Under the radar companies don't even know about this or that regulation or law... if they never get big enough no one cares...
It'd be like a hobo cheating on his taxes to get a $100 more on his refund... 
no one is going to audit that

That's how you find all the "1099 sub drivers leasing trucks from the company" ; "salary foremen so there's no overtime" ; "banking OT so they have income in the winter" etc... 
no one tells the little guy it's wrong 
He does it for years until someday he gets juuust big enough for someone to care and then poof... dude gets blindsided by a bajillion fines... and develops a new stutter


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> so, has this bet been settled?


Yes, I lost and I have paid the debt.

I still push it across the road..


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