# First slip and fall..



## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

Was notified this morning via an email forwarded by one of my PM's regarding a tenant at one of their properties who claims to have slipped on a walk sometime on Tuesday, and the resulting fall caused a fractured clavicle and a torn rotator cuff. 

We were at the property three times since Saturday, Last night we reapplied deicer. We did a full clean with a bobcat snowblower and shovelors on Sunday evening. In fact, one of the neighbors even called to complain about us working because of the noise, and I spoke with the PM while on site so it's all documented.The PM also did site checks on all properties and signed us off with a job well done.

The letter the tenant wrote references a "bucket of icemelt" was supposed to be provided for use at their own discretion. I don't have any of that in my contracts with the management company. 

We haven't been contacted by an attorney as of yet, as this is in it's preliminary stages, in fact, the PM is not returning the email from the tenant until she has received advice from her own counsel. 

Looking forward to how this runs out....


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## NorthernSvc's (Mar 12, 2006)

do you have your own attorney / counsel...


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## NorthernSvc's (Mar 12, 2006)

many guys on here will tell you to run to the insurance company first... big mistake - they are only worried about self preservation, you need someone on your side to make sure you are taken care of. let the insurance company do all of the big fights, but make sure you have someone in your corner looking out for you.


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

NorthernSvc's;1596911 said:


> many guys on here will tell you to run to the insurance company first... big mistake - they are only worried about self preservation, you need someone on your side to make sure you are taken care of. let the insurance company do all of the big fights, but make sure you have someone in your corner looking out for you.


I do have an attorney. I haven't notified him as of this moment. We have done our due diligence regarding this account, and to all of our accounts. I'm hoping it dies here, but I know that it isn't going to. Those injuries are pretty severe. I'd rather break my leg than suffer a torn RC.


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## siteworkplus (Nov 7, 2011)

hey Army,
are you responsible for 24/7 ice control and management or just cleanup per event?

I believe you are in NE am I right?

we did have a mon melt & overnite re-freeze as some areas of mine were like skating rinks tue am

I hope this dosen't turn ugly for you as it sounds like you provide excellent service


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

Roger that, boston ma. We are contracted per storm. No ice management was written in, but we do treat at our discretion, and send out a memo the day before we intend to so we don't perform a non contracted service and not get paid.. it has wked out well, and only have been told to stNd down one time by one account.


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## bluerage94 (Dec 24, 2004)

If you delay notifying the insurance company about a claim in a certain time period they may deny the claim...Thats what the insurance policies are for...unfortunately you could do an excellent job and still have something happen.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

ducaticorse;1596928 said:


> Roger that, boston ma. We are contracted per storm. No ice management was written in, but we do treat at our discretion, and send out a memo the day before we intend to so we don't perform a non contracted service and not get paid.. it has wked out well, and only have been told to stNd down one time by one account.


Good luck Ducati... hope it works out for you. That call must have sucked.


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

Wasn't a call, was an email simply alerting the pm that there was an accident. My stomach sank nonetheless. I feel badly for the girl who was injured. Rotator cuff damage is terrblible. I don't think that we are responsible, but I know the court system, sue everyone and let the judge sort it out.


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## NorthernSvc's (Mar 12, 2006)

ducaticorse;1597110 said:


> Wasn't a call, was an email simply alerting the pm that there was an accident. My stomach sank nonetheless. I feel badly for the girl who was injured. Rotator cuff damage is terrblible. I don't think that we are responsible, but I know the court system, sue everyone and let the judge sort it out.


and unfortunately can still cost you thousands even if you win...


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## NorthernSvc's (Mar 12, 2006)

A buddy's company i know just went through a similar thing, lady wearing high heels walking through a parking lot week and a half after any storm had gone through, she slipped on a 1 foot patch of ice ( probably spilled coffee...), judge ruled in his favor but it still ended up costing him ~$5,000.00


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

sounds to me like said tenant is fishing for money. she would not be aware of the contract between you and the company. and for her to state that YOU are supposed to have ice melt available soudns to me to be an excuse.

you never know how it will go in court. but i would think her documented claim that you were to put out ice melt would be a clear sign that she is making things up. that with the site signing off on your work would shift blame to them.

course, around here the last thing the judges know about is the law. had a buddy in GR tell the truth and got jailed for it. then told a bunch of utter out right lies and the judge believed those to be the truth and let him go.

i got into trouble for having a pile of wood, when the law clearly states im allowed to have it within 600 or so sq ft.

either way. be prepared to penny up. im sorry. life sucks.

if its any consolation. i would not sue you for slipping on ice. i live in michigan. i think its a joke for anyone to complain about falling on ice. at least once a year all of michigan gets covered with a blanket of ice. the trees sparkle like diamonds.

dont like ice. dont live in michigan. and dont sue someone else because your dumb self does not knwo how to walk. is my point of view.


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

NorthernSvc's;1597128 said:


> A buddy's company i know just went through a similar thing, lady wearing high heels walking through a parking lot week and a half after any storm had gone through, she slipped on a 1 foot patch of ice ( probably spilled coffee...), judge ruled in his favor but it still ended up costing him ~$5,000.00


I don't know why your buddy would be paying for any lawyers if he had proper liability. The Liability policy covers the expenses in regard to a suit. It is the insurances companies job to defend the policy, and reduce the amount of financial damage awarded as much as possible. That's what the insurance is for in the first place.

Also, it is quite clear in my contract that I am for clean up only on paper. This site was cleared and the accident happened two days after during a potential thaw/freeze cycle. It is not my contractual obligation to provide any further service after the initial snow removal.

BUT, like I said before. In these cases it's sometimes "sue everyone and let the judge sort it out"....


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

birddseedd;1597146 said:


> sounds to me like said tenant is fishing for money. she would not be aware of the contract between you and the company. and for her to state that YOU are supposed to have ice melt available soudns to me to be an excuse.
> 
> you never know how it will go in court. but i would think her documented claim that you were to put out ice melt would be a clear sign that she is making things up. that with the site signing off on your work would shift blame to them.
> 
> ...


A broken clavicle and a torn rotator cuff in a young woman is not a fishing expedition.

And she does not know anything about me or my business. Apparently in their lease with the management co, the management co is supposed to provide ice melt buckets, not I. And that bucket was not on premises, and not written in anywhere with my contract with the management co.

This hasn't turned into a claim yet, So we'll just have to wait and see.


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## TJSNOW (Jul 26, 2009)

First call should be your lawyer.....Second Call should be your insurance company.....Do NOT talk to anyone else BUT your lawyer/ insurance company......Let the lawyer handle things from here on out......You will get through this....Thumbs Up


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## TJSNOW (Jul 26, 2009)

ducaticorse;1597389 said:


> A broken clavicle and a torn rotator cuff in a young woman is not a fishing expedition.
> 
> And she does not know anything about me or my business. Apparently in their lease with the management co, the management co is supposed to provide ice melt buckets, not I. And that bucket was not on premises, and not written in anywhere with my contract with the management co.
> 
> This hasn't turned into a claim yet, So we'll just have to *wait and see*.


Don't wait and see on anything...........Call your Lawyer and get him/her in the loop...Be proactive..........


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## mulcahy mowing (Jan 16, 2006)

TJSNOW;1597446 said:


> Don't wait and see on anything...........Call your Lawyer and get him/her in the loop...Be proactive..........


I would agree. It won't cost you a dime if your lawyer is worth his salt(haha). Most personal injury lawyers will take a step back when immediately faced with sizable competition. That could make all the differance.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

TJSNOW;1597445 said:


> First call should be your lawyer.....Second Call should be your insurance company.....Do NOT talk to anyone else BUT your lawyer/ insurance company/ plow site......Let the lawyer handle things from here on out......You will get through this....Thumbs Up


i fixed it:laughing:


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

ducaticorse;1597389 said:


> A broken clavicle and a torn rotator cuff in a young woman is not a fishing expedition.
> 
> And she does not know anything about me or my business. Apparently in their lease with the management co, the management co is supposed to provide ice melt buckets, not I. And that bucket was not on premises, and not written in anywhere with my contract with the management co.
> 
> This hasn't turned into a claim yet, So we'll just have to wait and see.


if their lease says that they are supposed to have ice melt buckets available, then it is more than clear the liability rests on the appartments.

that complex will soon be boned


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## rcn971 (Jan 28, 2011)

birddseedd;1597620 said:


> if their lease says that they are supposed to have ice melt buckets available, then it is more than clear the liability rests on the appartments.
> 
> that complex will soon be boned


It's obvious you have not had the displeasure of being involved in a lawsuit. They will name everyone and anyone they can. If you throw enough crap at the wall some will eventually stick. The lawyers that represent the insurance companies usually suck, they are just bottom feeders logging hours to get as much as they can out of their client.


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

For your own state of mind, be familiar w/ your own states laws addressing slip & falls relevant to ice & snow. If it makes you fell better then call your attorney, but he's going to ask you to see the summons of which you have not received & may or may not ever receive. 

In my state, for myself, in order for the matter to get beyond the property owners insurance a few things would have to happen. First, the prop owners own insurance would put me on notice and ask me to forward the info to my own insurance. Not interested, if I forwarded every opportunists claims my insurance rates would triple. 

The whole matter is a process that needs to sort itself out, I don't put the carriage before the horse. If it comes to that, so be it. I will not make it easy for the other insurance company to dump on mine. A precedence will be set when it comes to future claims.

Somewhere in the process the injured parties medical will get paid, weather it's their own insurance or the property owners. As far as pursuing further damages, in my state they will need to prove reasonable negligence in order for most attorney's to have an interest in taking the case, otherwise they would need to put up a retainer. That retainer could be anywhere from 3-10k, depending on a number of factors that surround the case. Should the matter go to trial, that would be even more money, with additional out of pocket expenses along the way. This would be laid out for them before the attorney signs them on. Most cases never make it to trial, mainly because of the money and time involved in order to get it there, very expensive.

In short, the property owners insurance will more than likely pay an agreed upon claim of which they may or may not pursue you or your insurance. If they want to settle out the matter as quickly as possible, as they usually like to do, that's their problem...we'll sort out the puzzle pieces as it plays out.


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## vlc (Dec 8, 2012)

Good luck, man. I hope it all works out for you. That's one of my worst fears in this business. It really is a bummer how people always have to blame someone else. I mean, it IS winter in Boston and ice happens.


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

vlc;1597761 said:


> Good luck, man. I hope it all works out for you. That's one of my worst fears in this business. It really is a bummer how people always have to blame someone else. I mean, it IS winter in Boston and ice happens.


We haven't have been served or anything like that yet, as this is in it's infant stages. I read the letter the tenant wrote to the PM, and it looks like it's a possible set up for future litigation to me. The PM has contacted their attorney, and he advised to her to answer the letter addressing their concerns. I was asked to immediately drop off a bucket of ice melt to the address, which I did.

I will be giving my attorney a ring today to discuss. Although as someone said before, I believe his advice will be to wait and see if something comes up, because there is really nothing to be done in the mean time....


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## siteworkplus (Nov 7, 2011)

keep us posted

I had my first slip & fall earlier in the season during that dreaded 4:00 am flash freeze

guy came out the door with stuff in his hands and down the stairs he went
missed 2 weeks of work

we were on site at the time but the rain frooze to the ground in a matter of minutes

how do you protect yourself from that

haven't heard a peep from anyone but still holding my breath


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

siteworkplus;1597812 said:


> keep us posted
> 
> I had my first slip & fall earlier in the season during that dreaded 4:00 am flash freeze
> 
> ...


Apparently this chick went to the ER and as previously stated, was hurt pretty badly. I imagine she will be out of work for a little while, how long depends on what she does for a living. We are not under any obligation to even treat for ice with this management company. It is simply open walk walks and drives. We do treat for ice, but it isn't written into any contract, and is billed as an additional charge when we do.


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## siteworkplus (Nov 7, 2011)

ducaticorse;1597825 said:


> Apparently this chick went to the ER and as previously stated, was hurt pretty badly. I imagine she will be out of work for a little while, how long depends on what she does for a living. We are not under any obligation to even treat for ice with this management company. It is simply open walk walks and drives. We do treat for ice, but it isn't written into any contract, and is billed as an additional charge when we do.


I hope by treating it in the past you didn't assume the liability

i've heard on here that is a real possibility


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## R75419 (Feb 11, 2012)

ducaticorse;1597782 said:


> We haven't have been served or anything like that yet, as this is in it's infant stages. I read the letter the tenant wrote to the PM, and it looks like it's a possible set up for future litigation to me. The PM has contacted their attorney, and he advised to her to answer the letter addressing their concerns. I was asked to immediately drop off a bucket of ice melt to the address, which I did.
> 
> I will be giving my attorney a ring today to discuss. Although as someone said before, I believe his advice will be to wait and see if something comes up, because there is really nothing to be done in the mean time....


IMO I would make sure to document (time, person, how contacted) that the mgt co asked you to drop off the bucket of Ice melt as you stated it was supposed to be their obligation to provide the product. Dont get in a spot where it can be construed that it was YOUR responsibility.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

coldcoffee;1597725 said:


> For your own state of mind, be familiar w/ your own states laws addressing slip & falls relevant to ice & snow. If it makes you fell better then call your attorney, but he's going to ask you to see the summons of which you have not received & may or may not ever receive.
> 
> In my state, for myself, in order for the matter to get beyond the property owners insurance a few things would have to happen. First, the prop owners own insurance would put me on notice and ask me to forward the info to my own insurance. Not interested, if I forwarded every opportunists claims my insurance rates would triple.
> 
> ...


Excellent advice, plus don't discuss the details of the case with anyone but your insurance company and the lawyer they will assign until the lawyer tells you differently.

The ASCA is fighting for snow removal contractor rights and protection on a national level. Check their website at http://www.ascaonline.org/


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

I wouldn't even let the email take anymore of my time than to pull my service logs, make sure my paperwork was correct, forward the email to my insurance as an FYI and go back to bed.

1) You aren't being sued. Was there legal papers filed?

2) Notify an attorney and tell them what? You got an email? They'll love you for that, give me $250 and call me when something real happens.

3) Call your insurance company and tell them what? Maybe make them aware of it, but that's all you can do.

If you have insurance, you probably have some threshhold in the back of your mind as to what your limit is before you'd file a claim, if this is potentionaly over that threshhold, forward the info to your agent.

I would go spend the money to sit with someone and figure out if you should be salting some place while not under contract - I think you may open yourself up way too much by applying salt at someone elses discretion/direction - although we do it too to some extent but our contracts customers have to agree or not agree when it comes to salt.

A lady got hurt, not good for her but the insurance companies will figure it out, there really isn't a damn thing you can do.


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

ducaticorse;1596905 said:


> Was notified this morning via an email forwarded by one of my PM's regarding a tenant at one of their properties who claims to have slipped on a walk sometime on Tuesday, and the resulting fall caused a fractured clavicle and a torn rotator cuff.
> 
> We were at the property three times since Saturday, Last night we reapplied deicer. We did a full clean with a bobcat snowblower and shovelors on Sunday evening. In fact, one of the neighbors even called to complain about us working because of the noise, and I spoke with the PM while on site so it's all documented.The PM also did site checks on all properties and signed us off with a job well done.
> 
> ...


*One reason why you should be fully insured as a legit company . You are in a high risk management business . Your insurance will end up cutting a 50k check by next year. No biggy . Happens every day . Especially in this business . Surprised ? Must be your first one. Congrats and welcome to the big leagues !:laughing:. *


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## snoworks07 (Apr 20, 2012)

ducaticorse;1597378 said:


> I don't know why your buddy would be paying for any lawyers if he had proper liability. The Liability policy covers the expenses in regard to a suit. It is the insurances companies job to defend the policy, and reduce the amount of financial damage awarded as much as possible. That's what the insurance is for in the first place.
> 
> The was true in my case with a lawsuit that came up on a CVS account we provided service for. They handled everything. We supplied our back-up documentation, they handled the claim. Never saw a bill from them, the lawsuit was ultimately dropped.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Why not write into the contract that the customer is responsible for deicing any patches and are responsible for any slip and fall suites?


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## R&R Yard Design (Dec 6, 2004)

I can tell you this STOP posting on here about this. A lawyer will use all of this against you in every way


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

ducaticorse;1597389 said:


> A broken clavicle and a torn rotator cuff in a young woman is not a fishing expedition.
> 
> And she does not know anything about me or my business. Apparently in their lease with the management co, the management co is supposed to provide ice melt buckets, not I. And that bucket was not on premises, and not written in anywhere with my contract with the management co.
> 
> This hasn't turned into a claim yet, So we'll just have to wait and see.


you can have the worst injuries and still be fishing for money.

as one poster said its no ones fault but your own that you are dumb enough to walk on ice in the first place.

to walk on ice, slip, fall, get hurt and then sue for money that's fishing by my book.

p.s. a lawyer is NOT gonna find you on plowsite. so don't worry about discussing this with us.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

yardguy28;1598439 said:


> you can have the worst injuries and still be fishing for money.
> 
> as one poster said its no ones fault but your own that you are dumb enough to walk on ice in the first place.
> 
> ...


So your saying that all snow and ice contractors are all the same? All do the exact same job and offer the exact same service? People do fall and deserve money, others are fishing. Some contractors don't take things seriously and they put people in harms way and they derserve to be sued. But oh wait all contractors on Plowsite are all the best the profession has to offer.


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

JD Dave;1598478 said:


> So your saying that all snow and ice contractors are all the same? All do the exact same job and offer the exact same service? People do fall and deserve money, others are fishing. Some contractors don't take things seriously and they put people in harms way and they derserve to be sued. But oh wait all contractors on Plowsite are all the best the profession has to offer.


funny how not many are willin to mention any litigation that has been presented upon them in the past . I think it shows character .:laughing:


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

JD Dave;1598478 said:


> So your saying that all snow and ice contractors are all the same? All do the exact same job and offer the exact same service? People do fall and deserve money, others are fishing. Some contractors don't take things seriously and they put people in harms way and they derserve to be sued. But oh wait all contractors on Plowsite are all the best the profession has to offer.


can you quote an instance of someone putting someone else in harms way from plowing work


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

JD Dave;1598478 said:


> So your saying that all snow and ice contractors are all the same? All do the exact same job and offer the exact same service? People do fall and deserve money, others are fishing. Some contractors don't take things seriously and they put people in harms way and they derserve to be sued. But oh wait all contractors on Plowsite are all the best the profession has to offer.


i find myself disagreeing with this statement. the worst thing i can think of a plower doing is not doing it. and even in that instance... its frickin winter. watch your step or move to california and enjoy not getting any rain.

my opinion anyway. unless the guy drives into me im not going to sue him because i did not watch my step. i grew up walking on ice. take softer steps and you wont fall.


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

The freaks come out at night . And the scum when it snows :realmad:


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

birddseedd;1598491 said:


> i find myself disagreeing with this statement. the worst thing i can think of a plower doing is not doing it. and even in that instance... its frickin winter. watch your step or move to california and enjoy not getting any rain.
> 
> my opinion anyway. unless the guy drives into me im not going to sue him because i did not watch my step. i grew up walking on ice. take softer steps and you wont fall.


I agree with you to a certian extent but I see where some contractors push snow in parking areas and sidewalks, with no regard for run off and the freeze and thaw cycle that go along with it. People aren't expecting a huge ice patch when walking on a perfectly clear sunny day when it hasn't snowed for week. I do agree most lawsuits involve people looking for easy money but if we just said it's winter and there is no liability to contractors I can just imagine what would happen. We have had our share of slip and falls and we've taken a lot of procedures to minimize our exposure. My wife went grocery shopping this morning and she's 8 months pregnant, she said the lot hadn't been salted yet and was a complete skating rink and she wasn't expecting it when she got out of the car. Thank god she caught herself and didn't fall but what if she had of? I was at home eating breakfast and all of our lots had already been salted. The lot being a skating rink is someones fault be it the contractor or the owner.


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

JD Dave;1598511 said:


> I agree with you to a certian extent but I see where some contractors push snow in parking areas and sidewalks, with no regard for run off and the freeze and thaw cycle that go along with it. People aren't expecting a huge ice patch when walking on a perfectly clear sunny day when it hasn't snowed for week. I do agree most lawsuits involve people looking for easy money but if we just said it's winter and there is no liability to contractors I can just imagine what would happen. We have had our share of slip and falls and we've taken a lot of procedures to minimize our exposure. My wife went grocery shopping this morning and she's 8 months pregnant, she said the lot hadn't been salted yet and was a complete skating rink and she wasn't expecting it when she got out of the car. Thank god she caught herself and didn't fall but what if she had of? I was at home eating breakfast and all of our lots had already been salted. The lot being a skating rink is someones fault be it the contractor or the owner.


some contractors figure its cheaper to use their insurance than treat accordingly . especially below 20* lmbo


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

JD Dave;1598511 said:


> I agree with you to a certian extent but I see where some contractors push snow in parking areas and sidewalks, with no regard for run off and the freeze and thaw cycle that go along with it. People aren't expecting a huge ice patch when walking on a perfectly clear sunny day when it hasn't snowed for week. I do agree most lawsuits involve people looking for easy money but if we just said it's winter and there is no liability to contractors I can just imagine what would happen. We have had our share of slip and falls and we've taken a lot of procedures to minimize our exposure. My wife went grocery shopping this morning and she's 8 months pregnant, she said the lot hadn't been salted yet and was a complete skating rink and she wasn't expecting it when she got out of the car. Thank god she caught herself and didn't fall but what if she had of? I was at home eating breakfast and all of our lots had already been salted. The lot being a skating rink is someones fault be it the contractor or the owner.


maybe i have a different view. here in michigan we have a saying. michigan is the only place you can get sun burnt and frost bit in the same day. and iv seen the conditions. to accomplish such. here the ice will last a week of sunny days.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

birddseedd;1598521 said:


> maybe i have a different view. here in michigan we have a saying. michigan is the only place you can get sun burnt and frost bit in the same day. and iv seen the conditions. to accomplish such. here the ice will last a week of sunny days.


Bird, you don't know what you're talking about in this situation. Just stop. There are just some snow contractors that come up woefully short of servicing their accounts properly. Therefor, they put people's safty at risk. I'm not saying that's the case with Ducati, as I don't believe it is.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

maybe my inexperience makes me naive. But I grew up looking for ice and could not fathom the idea of suing someone because I made myself fall. Though I do believe this lady has a legitimate claim against the complex. It's a contract states that they are supposed to have ice melt, in breach of contract.

Either way. She will get money from whoever she can. And if she gets it from the complexes insurance. That company will most likely get it back from ducatis insurance swirly
It's a shame


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

birddseedd;1598672 said:


> maybe my inexperience makes me naive. But I grew up looking for ice and could not fathom the idea of suing someone because I made myself fall. Though I do believe this lady has a legitimate claim against the complex. It's a contract states that they are supposed to have ice melt, in breach of contract.
> 
> Either way. She will get money from whoever she can. And if she gets it from the complexes insurance. That company will most likely get it back from ducatis insurance swirly
> It's a shame


its not a shame , its negligence . Payable to claimant


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

I mean a shame that she might go after Ducati. Seems he exceeded his contract


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

Spool it up;1598408 said:


> *One reason why you should be fully insured as a legit company . You are in a high risk management business . Your insurance will end up cutting a 50k check by next year. No biggy . Happens every day . Especially in this business . Surprised ? Must be your first one. Congrats and welcome to the big leagues !:laughing:. *


Not surprised, concerned is more like it. I've been a contractor for several years and have never had someone hurt on one of my sites. I don't know what you consider big leagues or what that is supposed to even mean, but thanks for the welcome I guess. And this is not at all something to he laughing about. This lady got hurt badly.


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## perrysee (Jul 30, 2009)

don't you have a slip and fall waiver? i have one written into my contacts with my accounts. having them assume all slip and fall accidents are to be handled by them .


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

perrysee;1598790 said:


> don't you have a slip and fall waiver? i have one written into my contacts with my accounts. having them assume all slip and fall accidents are to be handled by them .





birddseedd;1598423 said:


> Why not write into the contract that the customer is responsible for deicing any patches and are responsible for any slip and fall suites?


Thumbs Up

text to go along with the image of agreement


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

birddseedd;1598484 said:


> can you quote an instance of someone putting someone else in harms way from plowing work


I'd actually like to see where I said any of what he's saying in my post. do I have words between the lines I don't know about?



JD Dave;1598478 said:


> So your saying that all snow and ice contractors are all the same? All do the exact same job and offer the exact same service? People do fall and deserve money, others are fishing. Some contractors don't take things seriously and they put people in harms way and they derserve to be sued. But oh wait all contractors on Plowsite are all the best the profession has to offer.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

For what it's worth, I've only had one slip and fall. Scariest day of my business life so far. I got the call from an insurance company in August. First thing I did was call my insurance lady. Then called the property insurer back. He wanted records to know I was there. I faxed him my storm log from the date prior to and of the day of injury. Apparently all they needed to know was the property owner had contracted someone to clear the snow, and the contractor was doing the job. Never heard another word about it but the owner told me the property is my contract for life. To make a long story short, these things happen. It snows, it freezes, it gets slippery, people fall. People should definately watch their step, but we are getting paid to do a job...paid to rid the property of these hazzards. As long as everyone is holding up their end of the deal, there's not much the injured party can sue for. My unfortunate circumstance allowed me the opportunity to show this client that I wasn't a fly-by-night plow guy, but rather a professional who kept records, and knew how to handle these situations. As scary as it was, it was a great lesson for me and the client. Document, Document, Document! And for the PMs and potential clients who may stalk plowsite...make sure your contractor is insured and will take the proper steps to keep you covered as well.


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

JTVLandscaping;1598811 said:


> For what it's worth, I've only had one slip and fall. Scariest day of my business life so far. I got the call from an insurance company in August. First thing I did was call my insurance lady. Then called the property insurer back. He wanted records to know I was there. I faxed him my storm log from the date prior to and of the day of injury. Apparently all they needed to know was the property owner had contracted someone to clear the snow, and the contractor was doing the job. Never heard another word about it but the owner told me the property is my contract for life. To make a long story short, these things happen. It snows, it freezes, it gets slippery, people fall. People should definately watch their step, but we are getting paid to do a job...paid to rid the property of these hazzards. As long as everyone is holding up their end of the deal, there's not much the injured party can sue for. My unfortunate circumstance allowed me the opportunity to show this client that I wasn't a fly-by-night plow guy, but rather a professional who kept records, and knew how to handle these situations. As scary as it was, it was a great lesson for me and the client. Document, Document, Document! And for the PMs and potential clients who may stalk plowsite...make sure your contractor is insured and will take the proper steps to keep you covered as well.


I just spoke with my attorney, he told me I should have nothing to worry about. The suit, if any suit, would be against the property owners insurance and even then it would be a hard case to prove negligence. And as you said above, he said if I am contacted, it will be by the property managers attorney to confirm that I was in fact there on several occasions clearing snow immediately prior to the accident in order to show due diligence. Apparently slip and fall cases regarding snow and ice in MA have an extremely low percent of findings of negligence, as in, unless no action was taken to clear the property in the first place, it is very difficult to prove any negligence, which is obviously not the case here.

That makes me feel better, but I am still sitting here with fingers crossed, and hoping for a quick and full recovery of the woman who was hurt.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

ducaticorse;1598841 said:


> I just spoke with my attorney, he told me I should have nothing to worry about. The suit, if any suit, would be against the property owners insurance and even then it would be a hard case to prove negligence. And as you said above, he said if I am contacted, it will be by the property managers attorney to confirm that I was in fact there on several occasions clearing snow immediately prior to the accident in order to show due diligence. Apparently slip and fall cases regarding snow and ice in MA have an extremely low percent of findings of negligence, as in, unless no action was taken to clear the property in the first place, it is very difficult to prove any negligence, which is obviously not the case here.
> 
> That makes me feel better, but I am still sitting here with fingers crossed, and hoping for a quick and full recovery of the woman who was hurt.


good to hear Thumbs Up


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## Ben/Insurance (Oct 22, 2012)

As an insurance agent, I strongly recommend that you contact your General Liability insurer immediately. If you wait too long, they will likely deny the claim claiming that you did not report it to them "promptly". If you have an agent, send it to them and ask for a receipt. If you do not have an agent, get a receipt from the carrier. The insurance company will assign it to an attorney and provide representation likely for free.
Do not speak to anyone else.
Ben


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

There hasn't been a claim. Or any official notice. I was simply forwarded an email from the pm that she received from the tenant stating that there was a fall, and to request that a bucket of deicer be made available for their use whenever needed.


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## Ben/Insurance (Oct 22, 2012)

Get the name of the "injured" party and report it to your GL carrier "For Records Only". If the tenant reached out to the PM, it's probably just a matter of time before they reach out to a lawyer. Best to protect yourself... A "FRO" claim will generally not be held against you by an insurance co also if it turns out to be nothing.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

We've done this several times. I agree with Ben/Ins.... at least make them aware of the situation. You don't need to file a claim, but at least have a record that you notified them. I recommend e-mail with a return receipt. If there is any kind of claim towards you, direct everything to your insurance company. Let them litigate and sort it out. That is what you pay them for.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

ducaticorse;1601874 said:


> There hasn't been a claim. Or any official notice. I was simply forwarded an email from the pm that she received from the tenant stating that there was a fall, and to request that a bucket of deicer be made available for their use whenever needed.


I see where this agents posts are coming from and if you can mention it to your insurance agent as a for the record only just mentioning it to you type of thing I would do that.

personally I live life NEVER reporting anything until there is an absolute need to. like a fender bender where you and the other driver agree to handle it outside of insurance company's. I leave them out of the loop.

as you said no official claim has been made. just someone who fell emailed the pm that she fell. I would wait until an official claim has been made before filing anything with insurance company's.

I've seen and heard of insurance company's dropping people without filing an actual claim. the less times you contact an insurance company the cheaper your rates stay and the less likely you are to be dropped. and it seems moats times you call an insurance company even to just inform them something happened you might need to turn in down the road they wanna turn it in right then and there.

I was rear ended by a moped pulling my enclosed trailer last season. mopeds aren't required to have insurance in my state. the police were called because the guy was hurt but since he didn't have insurance it was never turned into insurance. I just fixed the damage to my trailer on my own and he took care of whatever he needed to do on his own.

I however made the mistake of calling my agent to let him know but didn't want to file a claim. we argued FOREVER because he wanted to file a claim. in the end he didn't and luckily they didn't raise my rates or drop me. but if that happens again I will not be calling them unless something official needs to be reported.

do you really want it on record anywhere for any reason that someone fell possibly to your negligents. even if you call just to inform them. right there is a record and I coud see the courts ruling against you because if you were so sure you didn't do anything wrong why tell them in the first place. I wouldn't call if I were you.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

yardguy28;1602008 said:


> I see where this agents posts are coming from ...


i agree :salute:


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## goel (Nov 23, 2010)

birddseedd;1602011 said:


> i agree :salute:


You don't even have proper insurance, so why don't you just let this thread go instead of keep commenting?


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Cause im learning a lot. Is why when I get my policy next month itl be exactly what I need.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

birddseedd;1602158 said:


> Cause im learning a lot. Is why when I get my policy next month itl be exactly what I need.


And then if something happens the lawyer will rip it apart!


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Is why I'm getting advice on what I need.


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