# What Do I Need To Know In a Nut Shell?



## A Hero Lawn Care

OK so some of you guys may remember me from a little back and forth on a different thread. If not, here is a little bit about my company. I am a lawn care and landscaping company with a small employee base (laborers only) I am still heavily involved in the operations of my business.

However, I have been in business for two years and I never anticipated getting into the plowing side of the business. That being said, some of my clients expected me to offer this service so I was kind of thrown into the snow season without a lick of an idea what I was getting myself into. I only had 9 residential drives and patios and 2 relatively small parking lots (7500-10000 sq ft). I learned the hard way, that you will fatigue FAST. I had a couple of guys helping me but did not have a very profitable snow season because of the time it took to get these properties done.

I know that investing into the right equipment will help me get started. A couple of other guys balked at me in a different thread because they thought I wanted to do commercial accounts with an ATV Plow. These are fairly smaller lots and decent sized drives for residential clients. 

Would I be making a mistake by investing into an ATV? I could get a used ATV with a plow for probably right around what truck mounted plow would cost new. I just do not know if investing in a 7.5' plow would be worth it seeing the size of commercial accounts I will be dealing with. 

Also, what is some of the lingo I will need to be fluent with in discussing service with potential clients. I see everyone using Trigger as a point in time when the plows will hit the pavement. What other types of things should I know when discussing things with clients?

When it snows and you go out and the snow continues are you responsible for clearing those lots at a fixed price or do you service on a per occurrence basis? I know that you all are charging for different amounts of accumulation, what is the Rhythm behind that music? I get that more snow equals higher service cost, but how can I go about figuring a number out for my own company? 

I notice that a lot of the big companies will leave plow trucks in the parking lots right before a storm. What would be the benefit of doing things that way??


I know my truck is light duty compared to what a lot of plow trucks are 1500, but I see the guys with little plows on their trail blazers, what would be the ideal vehicle for snow removal? I would assume not to put anything nice out there in fear of destroying the front end of a nice vehicle. 

Does anyone have an elevator pitch for a novice preparing for the next snow season?

I am all ears....


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## SnoFarmer

Your not going to dominate the snow industery with a ATV .

2500 or 3500 4x4 gas or diesel, auto , maybe a manual and a Vee or a expandable plow.
A 2  stage snow blower.
And a swing away salter.

Maybe even a single stage snow blower.
A few shovels,

Why trailer a ATV all over town? 

Think time, there is only so much, what is proven to be more efficient?


Maybe someday you can add a atv if the situation calls for it.


But why not get a job if your field of training?
Ps 
The search function is your friend,
All of your questions have been answered and more.
From insurance to zoning.also


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## BUFF

Hero I like beer and be willing to let you by me a couple pints.......


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## A Hero Lawn Care

Hey SnoFarmer!

I was going to try and respond do your question last Saturday but by the time we had finished up Micheal had already shut down the thread.

So I will do my best to try and explain. So I do not have 2 degrees right now. I only have an Associates of General Studies from the local community college. I planned on transferring to MSU Denver to get a Degree in Human Performance and Sport with a Concentration in Sport Industry Operations. 

Tuition was out of control 

You had mentioned that you assumed I was in a boat load of debt. Well kind of right with that assumption. I am not really in debt because of business overhead. I try and keep expenses minimal. However, you are 100% correct. I am in a debt because of student loans. I was making less than $10k a year and A single semester in school costs bare minimum $4500. So you can see where I was running into issues. So I started this my business to fill that financial gap. 

I have been in this industry for my entire life and I am pretty good with what I do. Then I started falling in love with running my business.

I saw a lot of kids in my program spending all of this money on school just to get out and sell tickets for the broncos making a $30K salary.

Not the best option in my eyes.

So I am still in school and have been taking online classes for a Degree In Project Management. This degree can be applied to all fields. Basically this degree teaches us how to get into an organization, find the issue, cut the fat and solve a problem through lengthy project process. I figure that learning how to master this will give me a chance to apply this to the everyday operations in my business. While I am doing that my 2nd degree at CSU is in Landscape Contract and Design. So there is a direct link between my school and work. 

I know it seems crazy, but I am really trying to structure everything around building the business into a powerhouse. 

I know I probably wont dominate the market, but I want to have that attitude.

Expect the worst and hope for the best.

Anyhow, me and my fiance live in a studio apartment together as we try and build our life. We don't have much right now, but I am working hard to build us a future.

I know it sounds messy, but I have really come a long way. I came off wrong the other day and you all made some really good points about having the right attitude. I am here to learn and appreciate all the help that you guys are sharing for us younger guys. 

You are right about the older posts. There is a ton of great info. 

As far as plow goes, the cousin I talked about earlier told me he will sell me one of his old 7.5 Western V Plows for $3000. He also warned me that it might be too heavy for a 1/2 ton.

I know it is important to keep cheap when getting into a new venture but part of me is determined that a Used Plow might be a bad investment. I know when I bought used commercial landscape equipment I would always be kicking myself later down the road. 

I think you are right though, it would be hard to make a mark in this industry using a little ATV. Again, it would limit me to another season of small lots and drives too so I think you are right...

Thanks for the reply, I hope there are no hard feelings!


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## A Hero Lawn Care

BUFF;2136085 said:


> Hero I like beer and be willing to let you by me a couple pints.......


You got it Buff. I would love to pick at your brain!


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## BUFF

A Hero Lawn Care;2136089 said:


> You got it Buff. I would love to pick at your brain!


I'm currently at Oksar blues in Longmont and will be till aboot 6:30p


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## 1olddogtwo

BUFF;2136092 said:


> I'm currently at Oksar blues in Longmont and will be till aboot 6:30p


Buff's a good guy, can't miss him, 6'8" 320 and wears a white dress with a deep V cut to air out his burly chest.

OK, I'm kidding, it's blue.

What ever you do, when you buy equipment, buy it once. Don't buy what you need today, buy what you need down the road. Something that will last you more then a couple of season. Weather that's a ½ton with a 7½ or a ¾ton with 8ft. I wouldn't waste my time with a ATV.


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## A Hero Lawn Care

BUFF;2136092 said:


> I'm currently at Oksar blues in Longmont and will be till aboot 6:30p


Awesome you are in Colorado! I am in Northglenn right now So I dont think I can shoot out there today.

I have a pretty decent sized landscape job this weekend but we are forecasted for rain? So maybe this gets pushed out a weekend and I may be able to swing up north to meet you.

Your thoughts?


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## thelettuceman

Hero: If you need to keep your 1500 series truck >>> Go to any snow plow mfg website. The website will ask you about your truck and give you an answer about what fits on your truck. 1500 series trucks are usually not used for commercial snow plowing. Forget the ATV, go snow blower as was suggested above. Good luck / Rick


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## A Hero Lawn Care

1olddogtwo;2136095 said:


> Buff's a good guy, can't miss him, 6'8" 320 and wears a white dress with a deep V cut to air out his burly chest.
> 
> OK, I'm kidding, it's blue.
> 
> What ever you do, when you buy equipment, buy it once. Don't buy what you need today, buy what you need down the road. Something that will last you more then a couple of season. Weather that's a ½ton with a 7½ or a ¾ton with 8ft. I wouldn't waste my time with a ATV.


You can't miss me either. I'll be the only kid who doesn't look old enough to be in the bar ahaha

That is my thought exactly. Don't want to finance anything so I will be pinching pennies until September and If I have made some dough I want to splurge on something that will make life a lot easier for the next wet and heavy spring storms.:salute:


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## Mark Oomkes

Grabbing a bucket 'o popcorn.


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## FredG

I never read much of your first post, It was going in a direction that could possibly make me rude and then was closed. What are you planing on investing for your snow end of your biz. No you don't want new at this point. You need a basic heavy duty plow truck. If you don't give us some kind of investment value it's all conjecture.

Lots of us are pretty good buyers and know where to find good used equipment with records and possibly inspection reports. All set up ready to plow when purchased.

How far do you want to take it, Driveways, Small or large commercial, Factories? Lots of sidewalk? I'm sure you did get pushed into it. Snow & ice go hand and hand with Landscaping. As far as the lingo keep reading, If you don't know what they are referring to ask.

You have to be serious and have some monies to invest or it's just a waste of time and your post will turn to a joke, Good Luck


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## BUFF

1olddogtwo;2136095 said:


> Buff's a good guy, can't miss him, 6'8" 320 and wears a white dress with a deep V cut to air out his burly chest.
> 
> OK, I'm kidding, it's blue.
> 
> What ever you do, when you buy equipment, buy it once. Don't buy what you need today, buy what you need down the road. Something that will last you more then a couple of season. Weather that's a ½ton with a 7½ or a ¾ton with 8ft. I wouldn't waste my time with a ATV.


I'm 290.....


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## BUFF

A Hero Lawn Care;2136097 said:


> Awesome you are in Colorado! I am in Northglenn right now So I dont think I can shoot out there today.
> 
> I have a pretty decent sized landscape job this weekend but we are forecasted for rain? So maybe this gets pushed out a weekend and I may be able to swing up north to meet you.
> 
> Your thoughts?


A location that says FR NoCo should be a give away to natives.....
I heading to Wyoming on Wednesday and won't be back till Sunday. 
Tomorrow I'm shooting trap.


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## A Hero Lawn Care

thelettuceman;2136099 said:


> Hero: If you need to keep your 1500 series truck >>> Go to any snow plow mfg website. The website will ask you about your truck and give you an answer about what fits on your truck. 1500 series trucks are usually not used for commercial snow plowing. Forget the ATV, go snow blower as was suggested above. Good luck / Rick


I am most likely going to keep the truck for a while just because I love it, but I know that with all the volume of work we have been getting that I might be getting ready to set up another. So I will consider that when I am ready to buy.

You guys make a good point though, it might be better to get the snowblower and stick with shovels one more season.

IDK though because that last storm beat the brakes off of me.


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## jonniesmooth

take 30 minutes to watch the video in my signature. It's got everything you need for a good foundation in life, not just business.


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## A Hero Lawn Care

BUFF;2136106 said:


> A location that says FR NoCo should be a give away to natives.....
> I heading to Wyoming on Wednesday and won't be back till Sunday.
> Tomorrow I'm shooting trap.


Oh you lucky duck!

have fun and enjoy the beautiful weather to go shoot some skeets!

I did not even see the location. I am still a newb to the whole concept of forums, but duly noted.

Buff, I will definitely take you up on the offer when you have some time though.


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## A Hero Lawn Care

jonniesmooth;2136108 said:


> take 30 minutes to watch the video in my signature. It's got everything you need for a good foundation in life, not just business.


Will do. It's nice to see another man of faith on here!

Thanks for the insight!


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## FredG

BUFF;2136105 said:


> I'm 290.....


:laughing: :laughing: I'm 255,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## Mark Oomkes

BUFF;2136105 said:


> I'm 290.....


The camera adds 10 (30) pounds.


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## BUFF

FredG;2136115 said:


> :laughing: :laughing: I'm 255,,,,,,,,,,,,


But you're a foot plus shorter.....


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## 1olddogtwo

Nothing wrong with extra credi


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## FredG

BUFF;2136119 said:


> But you're a foot plus shorter.....


Since I'm 4'8'' Thats about right.:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: No 5'8'' and shrinking,


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## 1olddogtwo

A Hero Lawn Care;2136052 said:


> OK so some of you guys may remember me from a little back and forth on a different thread. If not, here is a little bit about my company. I am a lawn care and landscaping company with a small employee base (laborers only) I am still heavily involved in the operations of my business.
> 
> However, I have been in business for two years and I never anticipated getting into the plowing side of the business. That being said, some of my clients expected me to offer this service so I was kind of thrown into the snow season without a lick of an idea what I was getting myself into. I only had 9 residential drives and patios and 2 relatively small parking lots (7500-10000 sq ft). I learned the hard way, that you will fatigue FAST. I had a couple of guys helping me but did not have a very profitable snow season because of the time it took to get these properties done.
> 
> I know that investing into the right equipment will help me get started. A couple of other guys balked at me in a different thread because they thought I wanted to do commercial accounts with an ATV Plow. These are fairly smaller lots and decent sized drives for residential clients.
> 
> Would I be making a mistake by investing into an ATV? Yes, as covered in other post
> 
> I could get a used ATV with a plow for probably right around what truck mounted plow would cost new. New, I'll assume that's new to. Hauling around a trailer in the snow sucks, loading/unloading in snow sucks, plowing soaking wet sucks. Plowing ur own driveway, that's a different story.
> 
> I just do not know if investing in a 7.5' plow would be worth it seeing the size of commercial accounts I will be dealing with. Think of ur growth.
> 
> Also, what is some of the lingo I will need to be fluent with in discussing service with potential clients. I see everyone using Trigger as a point in time when the plows will hit the pavement. What other types of things should I know when discussing things with clients?
> 
> A laundry list here. We'll have to detail this out for ya.
> 
> When it snows and you go out and the snow continues are you responsible for clearing those lots at a fixed price or do you service on a per occurrence basis?
> 
> Depends on contract, and storm.
> 
> I know that you all are charging for different amounts of accumulation, what is the Rhythm behind that music?
> 
> The debate on seasonal, per push will go on for ever.
> 
> I get that more snow equals higher service cost, but how can I go about figuring a number out for my own company?
> 
> Unfortunately this will be a learning curve for you and for nobody knows your overhead expenses so forth so K n
> 
> I notice that a lot of the big companies will leave plow trucks in the parking lots right before a storm. What would be the benefit of doing things that way??
> 
> Ur a long way off to worry about that.
> 
> I know my truck is light duty compared to what a lot of plow trucks are 1500, but I see the guys with little plows on their trail blazers, what would be the ideal vehicle for snow removal?
> ¾ ton with min of 8ft
> 
> I would assume not to put anything nice out there in fear of destroying the front end of a nice vehicle.
> 
> My truck sticker @ 68K 1100lbs plow and it's a Ford so no need to worry about that.
> 
> Does anyone have an elevator pitch for a novice preparing for the next snow season?
> 
> I used the escalator
> 
> I am all ears....


See replies above.


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## 1olddogtwo

A Hero Lawn Care;2136113 said:


> Will do. It's nice to see another man of faith on here!
> 
> Thanks for the insight!


Don't click on mine then.


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## Avalanche 2500

1olddogtwo;2136095 said:


> Buff's a good guy, can't miss him, 6'8" 320 and wears a white dress with a deep V cut to air out his burly chest.
> 
> OK, I'm kidding, it's blue.
> 
> What ever you do, when you buy equipment, buy it once. Don't buy what you need today, buy what you need down the road. Something that will last you more then a couple of season. Weather that's a ½ton with a 7½ or a ¾ton with 8ft. I wouldn't waste my time with a ATV.


Buff, Just for ****s, giggles . I go w/ BUD Light !


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## A Hero Lawn Care

BUFF;2136106 said:


> A location that says FR NoCo should be a give away to natives.....
> I heading to Wyoming on Wednesday and won't be back till Sunday.
> Tomorrow I'm shooting trap.


Buff i am at 1800 pike road. You here?


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## Whiffyspark

Just go inside. You probably can't miss him. 

If you want to get his attention walk in with a baseball bat


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## 1olddogtwo

You made me spit up reading that.


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## SnoFarmer

Hint look for the Scottish ale.


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## 1olddogtwo

Score, two points award.


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## Randall Ave

If you really want to get his attention, wear anything that's ANTI GUN!!


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## Randall Ave

A friend used to say, You want to race, or just **** around. Buy a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. Get a good plow. Out your way, Boss seems big. Shoveling and blowing larger lots takes to long. To many man hours. The truck can be used for you summer work. If you are as established as you say, take out a small loan.


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## 1olddogtwo

Walk around saying stick up, stick up is his nickname.


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## Whiffyspark

1olddogtwo;2136145 said:


> Walk around saying stick up, stick up is his nickname.


I hope he's still alive.


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## Randall Ave

Ya really think Buff wants a Mini Me!


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## 1olddogtwo

Hows the Buffy love going?


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## SnoFarmer

Lola........


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## Mark Oomkes

I wonder if Buff has a new hero......


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## 1olddogtwo

Mark Oomkes;2136164 said:


> I wonder if Buff has a new hero......


Together, they'll be known as


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## LapeerLandscape

Whiffyspark;2136135 said:


> Just go inside. You probably can't miss him.
> 
> If you want to get his attention walk in with a baseball bat


And tell him how much you love the Donkey's (Bronco's)


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## Mark Oomkes

Whiffyspark;2136149 said:


> I hope he's still alive.


Buff???????


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## JMHConstruction

Forgive me for this novel I have typed..

Hero, the huge positive is you have some months to really learn about the business. As everyone has stated don't buy an atv, it's just too small to get the job done fast enough. You need to make sure you have good help for this, and make sure they know what they're getting into. You too need to know what you're getting into.

So many new people come here thinking it's easy money, and it is by far the hardest money I make right now. They long hours, waking up to check weather, dealing with guys who won't answer their phones at 2am or get tired and just leave while it's still snowing. There is a lot to this business other than just moving snow Luke you did when you were a kid.

Where I live in am afraid to make a huge financial commitment to snow removal (this year we got a whopping 5"), so I don't even own a plow. If I'd nut up and get one I'm sure I'd made money, but it's hard to drop big money in a heavier truck and plow with as small as my company is. I subcontract sidewalks (different ball game that it doesn't sound like is right for you), so I can't tell you how commercial bidding goes, as I've never dealt with that. Buff is a good guy, I know he's help me with a ton on this site. Take in everything he will give you.

Something else that I don't think anyone has said is start small. You DO NOT want to try and learn to plow while you're really overwhelmed and trying to haul ass. Also, make sure you have money for repairs. Have a back up plan if something goes wrong. If you break down you want to be able to call someone to bail you out.

As far as "lingo", you should find everything on this site alright. Make sure you read as much as you can and learn about ways to charge incase a customer asks for something particular. You have seasonal, event (usually per inch or inch increments), per trip, and I'm sure there is others I can't think of.

I'm sure I jumped around and probably rambled more than helped, I worked a really long day, and haven't thought about snow in about 3 months. For that I apologize. I will try and hop on here more and follow your thread to help with what little I can, we need more young people to get into business like us who actually want to listen and learn instead of just ask and then argue because someone didn't tell them what they wanted to hear.

Also forgot insurance. You will need to talk with your insurance agent to adjust your plan for snow removal. Mine goes up in the winter and back down in the summer for my deck business. Your normal GL policy won't cover slip and falls and having a plow on your truck.


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## Mike_PS

ok, let's TRY to get back to helping the new guy


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## 1olddogtwo

Will do MJD, just trying to take him into the fold.


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## SnoFarmer

1olddogtwo;2136174 said:


> Will do MJD, just trying to take him into the fold.


Well,,,,buff is.


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## BUFF

1olddogtwo;2136167 said:


> Together, they'll be known as


Well it's like this.... Hero is a pretty good guy, has goals in life and willing to listen to a FOG. Had some beers talked bizz approach in resi and commercal work, talk aboot equipment needs for each. Also talked aboot the ways of PS and let him know Mark was the Plow Kkng but also mentioned I'm the Rocky Mtn plow king, Taylor, thanks for the Old Chub Nitros, hope to hear from you when you look for snow equipment. Thx


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## BUFF

Michael J. Donovan;2136173 said:


> ok, let's TRY to get back to helping the new guy


Micheal this was a VERY good meeting 
, sometimes a little rein is needed to find the full potentail in people......
It's all cool..


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## 1olddogtwo

See MJD, the story has ended well.....or more so, its just beginning.


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## FredG

Whiffyspark;2136135 said:


> Just go inside. You probably can't miss him.
> 
> If you want to get his attention walk in with a baseball bat


Or look for a Sasquatch.::laughing: :laughing:


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## Mark Oomkes

Hero, there is no nutshell. I've been doing this for 30+ years and I don't know everything. Shoot, our first storm of the season was something I hadn't ever encountered before, 2-3" of sleet that pushed harder than anything I've ever pushed before. 

So maybe the "nutshell" is there isn't one. Just like anything, it takes time, experience and lots of education. Above all, humility is a great place to start. Sure, we can and might give pointers. Depending on attitude and your willingness to do some of the legwork yourself. Plenty of experience can be passed along as well. But that will never replace your own. 

Or maybe this is the nutshell: plowing sucks. You will be 100% dependent on the weather. You can make no plans for a good 6 months out of the year. You will disappoint family. You will miss holidays and special occasions. Your life goes on hold except for your business for that time frame. You will not be able to depend on weather forecasts. You will have to put up with unreasonable customers. You will have breakdowns. You will have employees not show up\do a crappy job\break stuff. You will have to work when you are sick. You have to have contingency plans for your contingency plans. You will miss hours and hours and hours of sleep for nothing, because the forecasts are wrong, but you dang sure better not be depending on them being correct when they predict nothing and it snows a foot. Your customers won't care, because that's what they hired you for. You will have to work long, long hours because your customers don't care that it snowed 24" instead of the 2" that was predicted and you gave someone the night off (which I don't do). If it keeps snowing, you keep working. If it snows at 5 AM, your customers expect the same service as if it stopped snowing at midnight and it takes 4 hours to go through your route. 

That's probably the best "nutshell" as to how this industry works. It's intense and extremely stressful. And if you have employees, that stress goes up, because no matter what, you are the one that gave your customer your word that the work will get done.


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes;2136229 said:


> Hero, there is no nutshell. I've been doing this for 30+ years and I don't know everything. Shoot, our first storm of the season was something I hadn't ever encountered before, 2-3" of sleet that pushed harder than anything I've ever pushed before.
> 
> So maybe the "nutshell" is there isn't one. Just like anything, it takes time, experience and lots of education. Above all, humility is a great place to start. Sure, we can and might give pointers. Depending on attitude and your willingness to do some of the legwork yourself. Plenty of experience can be passed along as well. But that will never replace your own.
> 
> Or maybe this is the nutshell: plowing sucks. You will be 100% dependent on the weather. You can make no plans for a good 6 months out of the year. You will disappoint family. You will miss holidays and special occasions. Your life goes on hold except for your business for that time frame. You will not be able to depend on weather forecasts. You will have to put up with unreasonable customers. You will have breakdowns. You will have employees not show up\do a crappy job\break stuff. You will have to work when you are sick. You have to have contingency plans for your contingency plans. You will miss hours and hours and hours of sleep for nothing, because the forecasts are wrong, but you dang sure better not be depending on them being correct when they predict nothing and it snows a foot. Your customers won't care, because that's what they hired you for. You will have to work long, long hours because your customers don't care that it snowed 24" instead of the 2" that was predicted and you gave someone the night off (which I don't do). If it keeps snowing, you keep working. If it snows at 5 AM, your customers expect the same service as if it stopped snowing at midnight and it takes 4 hours to go through your route.
> 
> That's probably the best "nutshell" as to how this industry works. It's intense and extremely stressful. And if you have employees, that stress goes up, because no matter what, you are the one that gave your customer your word that the work will get done.


And your point is....... We're morons?


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## FredG

Well said Mark, It's beyond me why we continue to brutalize ourselves.  :laughing:


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## Mark Oomkes

BUFF;2136234 said:


> And your point is....... We're morons?


According to a former poster, I've been promoted.

But yes.


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## SnoFarmer

A Hero Lawn Care;2136088 said:


> Hey SnoFarmer!
> 
> I was going to try and respond do your question last Saturday but by the time we had finished up Micheal had already shut down the thread.
> 
> Tuition was out of control
> 
> You had mentioned that you assumed I was in a boat load of debt. Well kind of right with that assumption.
> 
> Thanks for the reply, I hope there are no hard feelings!


Kool, I went to school too and I it wasn't for snow removel
Mark does have a point ( when he removes his hat you can see it).
Your life is snow, no birthdays, working on x-mass.
Etc etc.

For now buff is your biggest asset..

Ask questions, but it might be a good idea to spread them out in a few diffrent threads, so the subject can be beaten to death one at a time...

Even the negative comments have informantion imbedded in them.

You have a lot of work ahead of yourself, make sure your girlfriend is on board.

Hard feelings naw,


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## Randall Ave

I think we just like to abuse ourselves. Every year, someone tells me they want to get a plow truck cause, we make big money!!


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## FredG

Most of us made our choice to be brutalized years ago, I have no problem with a guy with ambition and a dream. I consider myself a good earner. Family members have done better, Not so much financially. They just have a better life style. Bankers hrs, Home on weekends, 6 weeks payed vacations, etc. No repair hassles, No hassles with finding good help. No big investments on heavy equipment needed. No payroll etc.

My Kids made the decision to pass on what I had to offer, They are all educated and doing very well for there self's. I made my decision as a young man to play in the dirt and snow. Does this keep me happy? Yes, Would I recommend my road to a young man? Probably not.


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## BUFF

SnoFarmer;2136239 said:


> Mark does have a point ( when he removes his _*crown*_ you can see it).
> board.


Fixed it fur ya.......

Withoot his crown


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## Sawboy

I'm still trying to figure out how to kick this sand over here. No college degree or nuttin.


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## FredG

Sawboy;2136268 said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how to kick this sand over here. No college degree or nuttin.


It works and none of us are missing any meals, My point is stay in school, I know there's a lot out there that can't find jobs in what there educated for.

I don't have any young guys beating my door down for employment. Most are smart enough to not want to get dirty, muddy, smell of diesel, Beat up by the cold/heat. Low pay entry even with unions you got to go through apprenticeship.
50% pay. In my day if you knew somebody you joined up at full pay as long as you could run a skid or loader.

FWIW I made choice to not further my education after high school. At this point for me it is what it is. I love it, Someways I would like to have my brothers education and job. 250k plus bonus per yr. I don't answer to nobody he does.


----------



## Sawboy

Fred, that comment wasn't for you. It was a hangover from the previous thread.


----------



## FredG

Sawboy;2136276 said:


> Fred, that comment wasn't for you. It was a hangover from the previous thread.


Got ya, I'm cool, I did not think it was for me, I'm just ranting with ya. Thumbs Up


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I forgot to mention competitors that either don't know or don't care what their costs are and consequently will price work too low, anywhere from $5 to 50% less than your pricing. Or established contractors doing the same thing to keep volume up and/or as a loss leader.


----------



## A Hero Lawn Care

BUFF;2136190 said:


> Well it's like this.... Hero is a pretty good guy, has goals in life and willing to listen to a FOG. Had some beers talked bizz approach in resi and commercal work, talk aboot equipment needs for each. Also talked aboot the ways of PS and let him know Mark was the Plow Kkng but also mentioned I'm the Rocky Mtn plow king, Taylor, thanks for the Old Chub Nitros, hope to hear from you when you look for snow equipment. Thx


Buff, 
I really appreciate you sitting down with me and explaining a lot of the stuff I was wondering about. You really are a big help and it was great hearing some advice from someone who has really been through it. The advice you gave me is invaluable and I hope to catch up again down the road!


----------



## A Hero Lawn Care

FredG;2136274 said:


> It works and none of us are missing any meals, My point is stay in school, I know there's a lot out there that can't find jobs in what there educated for.
> 
> I don't have any young guys beating my door down for employment. Most are smart enough to not want to get dirty, muddy, smell of diesel, Beat up by the cold/heat. Low pay entry even with unions you got to go through apprenticeship.
> 50% pay. In my day if you knew somebody you joined up at full pay as long as you could run a skid or loader.
> 
> FWIW I made choice to not further my education after high school. At this point for me it is what it is. I love it, Someways I would like to have my brothers education and job. 250k plus bonus per yr. I don't answer to nobody he does.


I see what you are saying and I see what you mean about not recommending this type of work on others. I really have geared my education to help boost the efficiency and business structure of my company. I only anticipate plowing as side work when the landscaping season wraps up.

As far as not having a life because of the business, I have already given mine up. I was explaining to Buff last night that I don't even really have friends anymore because my lifestyle is so different from most of my peers. It's hard for others to relate to what I am feeling. That is why it was awesome to get to go talk with Buff for a while. You all share the same stresses that I do. It is hard to find that kind of a support system when everyone my age is out "living life".

This is the path I have chosen and I know you really don't need a degree to own a business, but that is how dedicated I am to my company.

You make some really solid points though.


----------



## A Hero Lawn Care

SnoFarmer;2136239 said:


> Kool, I went to school too and I it wasn't for snow removel
> Mark does have a point ( when he removes his hat you can see it).
> Your life is snow, no birthdays, working on x-mass.
> Etc etc.
> 
> You have a lot of work ahead of yourself, make sure your girlfriend is on board.
> 
> Hard feelings naw,


You would be surprised at how supportive this girl is. It blows me away.

I am glad we were able to square away some of that BS I was giving on the previous thread.

You're right, Buff is good people and he gave me a lot of guidance that I am really thankful for!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

A Hero Lawn Care;2136297 said:


> Buff,
> I really appreciate you sitting down with me and explaining a lot of the stuff I was wondering about. You really are a big help and it was great hearing some advice from someone who has really been through it. The advice you gave me is invaluable and I hope to catch up again down the road!


Oh great, now he's going to get an even bigger head.


----------



## SnoFarmer

Mark Oomkes;2136311 said:


> Oh great, now he's going to get an even bigger head.


Have you seen it?
It's the size of a Virtual planetoid!

@1:38


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes;2136311 said:


> Oh great, now he's going to get an even bigger head.


My head will never cast a shadow the size yours does. I bet during every eclipse some folks think you have something to do with it........:laughing::laughing:


----------



## FredG

BUFF;2136322 said:


> My head will never cast a shadow the size yours does. I bet during every eclipse some folks think you have something to do with it........:laughing::laughing:


Come on man, At 290lbs you got to have a fairly big noggin. :laughing: :laughing:


----------



## Randall Ave

Come on, you no we all look UP to Buff!!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF;2136322 said:


> My head will never cast a shadow the size yours does. I bet during every eclipse some folks think you have something to do with it........:laughing::laughing:


Thats my Einstein hairdo.


----------



## Sawboy

Mark Oomkes;2136351 said:


> Thats my Einstein hairdo.


Whoa.....Einstien is my name!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Sawboy;2136354 said:


> Whoa.....Einstien is my name!


There can only be one of me!


----------



## 1olddogtwo

FredG;2136328 said:


> Come on man, At 290lbs you got to have a fairly big noggin. :laughing: :laughing:


Rumor is its really 320.


----------



## BUFF

Randall Ave;2136337 said:


> Come on, you no we all look UP to Buff!!


So that means I look down at most everyone....... I can't dispute that....



Mark Oomkes;2136351 said:


> Thats my Einstein hairdo.


Must be a wig, according to the pic on _The Company that does it all_ site you're sporting a #2 buzz with a turd eating grin like you just called ReToad a moron or the wife said you can buy a new toy.

Hero here's a few examples of what's oot there, I'm not promoting any brand they're just examples

New, installed with warranty.
http://denver.craigslist.org/ptd/5450472653.html

1yr old mount may work on your pickup but doubt it, new mount will probably run $400-500 which gets you really close to the cost of the one above.
http://denver.craigslist.org/for/5485172133.html

Very similar to first plow but you'll have to get wiring and mount which doesn't have you far from the 1st plow.
http://denver.craigslist.org/hvo/5515115914.html

Might get lucky and it comes with the correct mount and wiring.
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5497161047.html

A complete rig to get into it with, could be a turd or something worth while with a little help.
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5484548740.html

Could be hot or not, add another $1200.00<> for mount, wiring and controller.
http://denver.craigslist.org/grd/5461658092.html

So oot of all the plows I posted the 1st or the last is the way to go. The down fall with the last is you may have to rebuild the pump, replaced cylinders and a cutting edge. All isn't a big deal if you can do the work yourself, if you pay for it the labor it's just more oot of pocket. 
So back to the 1st plow, warranty and installed Thumbs Up, it may be a little on the big side for your current pickup but the type of work you mentioned it'll be fine with a set of air bags on the front end. A plow like this should be on a 3/4-1ton which you said you'll be adding down the road and you'd be oot the cost of a mount and wiring.

When looking at a plow to get you into the bizz think aboot the future and try to get something that will do the job then too.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF;2136404 said:


> Must be a wig, according to the pic on _The Company that does it all_ site you're sporting a #2 buzz with a turd eating grin like you just called ReToad a moron or the wife said you can buy a new toy.


1/2 on top, triple 0 on the sides.

Get it right if you're going to insult me.

The last part.........how did you know?


----------



## Randall Ave

What's the kid have for wheels?


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes;2136406 said:


> 1/2 on top, triple 0 on the sides.
> 
> Get it right if you're going to insult me.
> 
> The last part.........how did you know?


Insult...... ha!!! I'll save that for when I see you Buckaroo.......

Everyone has a ReToad in their life......... nuff said 
Twenty plus years of marriage, kids, etc.... I know the grin.....


----------



## FredG

Mark Oomkes;2136362 said:


> There can only be one of me!


Who gave you that nick. Einstein ??


----------



## BUFF

Randall Ave;2136410 said:


> What's the kid have for wheels?


Ram 1500 with a straight axle.



FredG;2136413 said:


> Who gave you that nick. Einstein ??


You've read enough of the Plow Kings post.......


----------



## Mark Oomkes

FredG;2136413 said:


> Who gave you that nick. Einstein ??


I think it was you. Lolololol


----------



## Randall Ave

There are 2 civil threads on PS. Did the earth stop turning?


----------



## BUFF

Randall Ave;2136428 said:


> There are 2 civil threads on PS. Did the earth stop turning?


If so our buddy from Hazlet may stop in......

BTW, MJD has nothing to ***** aboot if we play nice.......


----------



## A Hero Lawn Care

Mark Oomkes;2136292 said:


> I forgot to mention competitors that either don't know or don't care what their costs are and consequently will price work too low, anywhere from $5 to 50% less than your pricing. Or established contractors doing the same thing to keep volume up and/or as a loss leader.


Very true, 
I see it in my industry and all it does is reinforce our clients idea about cheap labor.

IMO those guys can go in and underbid and learn the hard way (ask me how I know)

lol


----------



## A Hero Lawn Care

BUFF;2136404 said:


> So that means I look down at most everyone....... I can't dispute that....
> 
> Must be a wig, according to the pic on _The Company that does it all_ site you're sporting a #2 buzz with a turd eating grin like you just called ReToad a moron or the wife said you can buy a new toy.
> 
> Hero here's a few examples of what's oot there, I'm not promoting any brand they're just examples
> 
> New, installed with warranty.
> http://denver.craigslist.org/ptd/5450472653.html
> 
> 1yr old mount may work on your pickup but doubt it, new mount will probably run $400-500 which gets you really close to the cost of the one above.
> http://denver.craigslist.org/for/5485172133.html
> 
> Very similar to first plow but you'll have to get wiring and mount which doesn't have you far from the 1st plow.
> http://denver.craigslist.org/hvo/5515115914.html
> 
> Might get lucky and it comes with the correct mount and wiring.
> http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5497161047.html
> 
> A complete rig to get into it with, could be a turd or something worth while with a little help.
> http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5484548740.html
> 
> Could be hot or not, add another $1200.00<> for mount, wiring and controller.
> http://denver.craigslist.org/grd/5461658092.html
> 
> So oot of all the plows I posted the 1st or the last is the way to go. The down fall with the last is you may have to rebuild the pump, replaced cylinders and a cutting edge. All isn't a big deal if you can do the work yourself, if you pay for it the labor it's just more oot of pocket.
> So back to the 1st plow, warranty and installed Thumbs Up, it may be a little on the big side for your current pickup but the type of work you mentioned it'll be fine with a set of air bags on the front end. A plow like this should be on a 3/4-1ton which you said you'll be adding down the road and you'd be oot the cost of a mount and wiring.
> 
> When looking at a plow to get you into the bizz think aboot the future and try to get something that will do the job then too.


I think the first option would be the best option. I am sure these guys hold their value too.

So I will be stashing away my extra dough like a squirrel with nuts. Lol

So about what part of the year should I anticipate being set up? I feel like fall clean ups will bleed into the snow season and vice versa. I am sure that will be a fun one to figure out. hahaha


----------



## A Hero Lawn Care

JMHConstruction;2136172 said:


> Forgive me for this novel I have typed..
> 
> Hero, the huge positive is you have some months to really learn about the business. As everyone has stated don't buy an atv, it's just too small to get the job done fast enough. You need to make sure you have good help for this, and make sure they know what they're getting into. You too need to know what you're getting into.
> 
> So many new people come here thinking it's easy money, and it is by far the hardest money I make right now. They long hours, waking up to check weather, dealing with guys who won't answer their phones at 2am or get tired and just leave while it's still snowing. There is a lot to this business other than just moving snow Luke you did when you were a kid.
> 
> Where I live in am afraid to make a huge financial commitment to snow removal (this year we got a whopping 5"), so I don't even own a plow. If I'd nut up and get one I'm sure I'd made money, but it's hard to drop big money in a heavier truck and plow with as small as my company is. I subcontract sidewalks (different ball game that it doesn't sound like is right for you), so I can't tell you how commercial bidding goes, as I've never dealt with that. Buff is a good guy, I know he's help me with a ton on this site. Take in everything he will give you.
> 
> Something else that I don't think anyone has said is start small. You DO NOT want to try and learn to plow while you're really overwhelmed and trying to haul ass. Also, make sure you have money for repairs. Have a back up plan if something goes wrong. If you break down you want to be able to call someone to bail you out.
> 
> As far as "lingo", you should find everything on this site alright. Make sure you read as much as you can and learn about ways to charge incase a customer asks for something particular. You have seasonal, event (usually per inch or inch increments), per trip, and I'm sure there is others I can't think of.
> 
> I'm sure I jumped around and probably rambled more than helped, I worked a really long day, and haven't thought about snow in about 3 months. For that I apologize. I will try and hop on here more and follow your thread to help with what little I can, we need more young people to get into business like us who actually want to listen and learn instead of just ask and then argue because someone didn't tell them what they wanted to hear.
> 
> Also forgot insurance. You will need to talk with your insurance agent to adjust your plan for snow removal. Mine goes up in the winter and back down in the summer for my deck business. Your normal GL policy won't cover slip and falls and having a plow on your truck.


No need to apologize, I followed you all the way through til the end. I can totally relate to the idea behind being the little guy and hesitating to invest into the big rig and plow. On the other hand, am a risk taker. Sometimes it pays off.. Other times.. eh Not so much ha.

I would definitely be looking at this as a supplementary income to my Lawn and Landscape biz, and will do my best at not biting off enough more than I can chew (which I am sometimes bad at) lol

I think my GL does cover snow because when I bought it they asked what percentage of revenue comes from snow plowing and I put down like 10% or something. So I have a little bit of coverage, but commercial auto is a whole different story and I will probably need to have a quick **** chat with my agent.

Thanks for sharing some of your insight to a newb man. It helps me a lot. I was talking to Buff about this, I cant really relate to my old "friends" anymore because of the path I chose, so it is always a good experience hearing what other people have gone through in similar shoes. I hope your business takes off this year and you make a lot of $$$


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## Randall Ave

Depending on where you are and when your snow season starts. Here, September 1st I start thinking snow equipment prep.


----------



## JMHConstruction

Even here where it doesn't start snowing until late, I have everything business wise set up by the end of August, make sure all the equipment is in working order (doesn't take long :laughing.

As far as friends, you will lose most who you were friends with before. I have maybe 2 I still talk to. You will make new ones (like the big fella) who are in the business you are, and try to get together when you have time.

Risk is something you have to take in this and every business, but you have to be careful. If we had more snow to count on it wouldn't be a question. Good luck with everything!


----------



## EurekaJC

Equipment maintenance is crucial with profitability. Find out how to protect your equipment from rust and corrosion with Fluid Film. It also works as a release agent on snow blowers and plows saving you time with buildup.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

EurekaJC;2138031 said:


> Equipment maintenance is crucial with profitability. Find out how to protect your equipment from rust and corrosion with Fluid Film. It also works as a release agent on snow blowers and plows saving you time with buildup.


Agreed, just make sure when applying FF to equipment and trucks, it doesn't get on your bike tyres.


----------



## SnoFarmer

The profitability of FF that is.


----------



## EurekaJC

Mark Oomkes;2138032 said:


> Agreed, just make sure when applying FF to equipment and trucks, it doesn't get on your bike tyres.


Simple green works well for getting the product off rubber without drying it out like a BPC.


----------



## BUFF

EurekaJC;2138031 said:


> Equipment maintenance is crucial with profitability. Find out how to protect your equipment from rust and corrosion with Fluid Film. It also works as a release agent on snow blowers and plows saving you time with buildup.


Colorado is a arid / high plains desert climate, we're not Eco Terrorist and salt usage is minimal. I've been plowing since the late 70's, just wash equipment after every use and never had a problem is rust and corrosion.

Also having Lanolin in your product we'd have every horny/hungry coyote chasing us........:laughing:


----------



## EurekaJC

BUFF;2138052 said:


> Colorado is a arid / high plains desert climate, we're not Eco Terrorist and salt usage is minimal. I've been plowing since the late 70's, just wash equipment after every use and never had a problem is rust and corrosion.
> 
> Also having Lanolin in your product we'd have every horny/hungry coyote chasing us........:laughing:


Along the rust belt we have seen some people with 2010 vehicles with 50K miles failing frame inspections when leaving vehicles untreated. they lay the brine's down there quite thick. it also works as a release agent for sticky snow on blades and blower chutes.

As far as dogs go the 6 on my sisters ranch have never shown interest in the auger or tractor components that are coated. we have heard from a number of users that fluid film actually helps deter mice/rats from gnawing on soy based wire coatings that some manufacturers have switched to.


----------



## BUFF

Hero how did the weekend storm go for you, nice wet stuff eh......


----------



## 1olddogtwo

Wasnt he riding shotgun with you?


----------



## BUFF

1olddogtwo;2138769 said:


> Wasnt he riding shotgun with you?


There's only room for one ego in a single cab pickup......:laughing:


----------



## Mark Oomkes

1olddogtwo;2138769 said:


> Wasnt he riding shotgun with you?


You mean "riding BB gun" with him?

Lmao


----------



## 1olddogtwo

I just talked to my brother he says you did not plow the driveway Meeker.


----------



## BUFF

1olddogtwo;2138776 said:


> I just talked to my brother he says you did not plow the driveway Meeker.


A 5hr drive for one resi's is a little far to drive.


----------



## 1olddogtwo

BUFF;2138781 said:


> A 5hr drive for one resi's is a little far to drive.


It's a 3000 ft rasie to the plateau, and couple miles of goat trails to the cabin, it's like 9K @ summit.


----------



## Randall Ave

I don't want to say it's 80 here right now. But it is!!


----------



## 1olddogtwo

Randall Ave;2138805 said:


> I don't want to say it's 80 here right now. But it is!!


83F....been in high 70's low 80's for last three days.... Missing Dec right now.


----------



## BUFF

Aboot 40* and most of the snow has cooked oof.....


----------



## A Hero Lawn Care

Hey all... Sorry I have dropped off of this thread. The grass is growing and the mulch is going down. I have been up to my eyeballs in work. However, I was approached today for maintenancing (Lawn Care) a 200,000 sq ft of lawn for a subdivision in Broomfield. Buff I know that this is what we were talking about. Landing the big jobs that cuts down on un-billable time (drive time) Set up and go all day in the same spot. I don't know if I will get this one but it would be a game changer for this season. Would you be interested in meeting so I can buy you a few and pick your brain about bidding jobs like this? I know that with the warm season setting in you are probably even busier than I am. Let me know your thoughts big guy!


----------



## BUFF

A Hero Lawn Care;2139939 said:


> Hey all... Sorry I have dropped off of this thread. The grass is growing and the mulch is going down. I have been up to my eyeballs in work. However, I was approached today for maintenancing (Lawn Care) a 200,000 sq ft of lawn for a subdivision in Broomfield. Buff I know that this is what we were talking about. Landing the big jobs that cuts down on un-billable time (drive time) Set up and go all day in the same spot. I don't know if I will get this one but it would be a game changer for this season. Would you be interested in meeting so I can buy you a few and pick your brain about bidding jobs like this? I know that with the warm season setting in you are probably even busier than I am. Let me know your thoughts big guy!


I had a buddy in Fort Collins ask me yesterday if I knew anyone down your way that could take on a HOA. I gave him your number along with another guys and it sounds like they did call you. 
I can give some advise/direction, send me a private message with the address/HOA name or link to Google maps and I'll take a look at it to start with.


----------



## FredG

Good Man, Help him out, Thumbs Up


----------



## Randall Ave

I hear those consultant fees are MURDER!!


----------



## BUFF

Randall Ave;2140009 said:


> I hear those consultant fees are MURDER!!


You get what you pay for........Thumbs Up


----------



## Randall Ave

What, no credit?


----------



## 1olddogtwo

Randall Ave;2140009 said:


> I hear those consultant fees are MURDER!!


10% commission.

18% gratuity.

10% profit

10% for overhead.


----------



## BUFF

Randall Ave;2140022 said:


> What, no credit?


Credit....... I'm not s friggin bank.... Get paid up front for consulting, this way I'm guaranteed payment.



1olddogtwo;2140027 said:


> 10% commission.
> 
> 18% gratuity.
> 
> 10% profit
> 
> 10% for overhead.


More like...

25% commission

25% gratuity

15% of profits

10% for overhead

Thumbs Up


----------



## FredG

Jeez, And I thought a few ales would of been good. :waving:


----------



## Randall Ave

Money back guarantee, with interest!!


----------



## Randall Ave

Back on topic, I'm not a landscaper, but 200000 square ft. That's 4.5 acres roughly. With a commercial mower that should take not long?


----------



## BUFF

FredG;2140089 said:


> Jeez, And I thought a few ales would of been good. :waving:


The first chat was strictly a meet and greet, now it's bizznezz......



Randall Ave;2140090 said:


> Money back guarantee, with interest!!


The only guarantee in life is death.



Randall Ave;2140092 said:


> Back on topic, I'm not a landscaper, but 200000 square ft. That's 4.5 acres roughly. With a commercial mower that should take not long?


There's too manly variables to give a smart ass answer.....
Just like plowing snow equipment, obstructions, and property layoot factor into the time it takes. With grass the type of grass and density play into times too mulch like moisture content and depth of snow plays into plowing.
Strictly going of what mower mfr's claim in the specs (assuming wide open area's) for Z turns they publish:

48" ~ 4.5 acres an hour
54" ~ 6.1 acres an hour
60" ~ 6.7 acres an hour 
72" ~ 8.1 acres an hour
104" ~ 10.5 acres an hour


----------



## Mark Oomkes

FredG;2140089 said:


> Jeez, And I thought a few ales would of been good. :waving:


Better than recycled Clydesdale pee that some morons call beer.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes;2140144 said:


> Better than recycled Clydesdale pee that some morons call beer.


Union Monkeys drink Union Monkey beer......... it's in the Union Monkey Code.....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF;2140161 said:


> Union Monkeys drink Union Monkey beer......... it's in the Union Monkey Code.....


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## Mike_PS

looks like the union guys are taking over :laughing::laughing:

so, we can wrap this one up :waving:


----------

