# Hourly Rates



## timblatt

What is the average hourly rate this year. I'm in reading, pa and I charge $80 per hour do you think this is high or low


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## R.J.B.

I charge $90 per hr. 3/4 ton with 8' blade.


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## redman6565

rates vary so much so it's kind of a pointless question to just throw out there...IMO.

but in rochester, I'm far below that hourly rate, but of course, my pick-ups don't mean much to me as most of my money is made by the large pieces of iron that we have.


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## ff610

redman6565;1065544 said:


> rates vary so much so it's kind of a pointless question to just throw out there...IMO.
> 
> but in rochester, I'm far below that hourly rate, but of course, my pick-ups don't mean much to me as most of my money is made by the large pieces of iron that we have.


That is correct! I would also add that anyone less then $60 anywhere is too cheap for the industry! (Lowballer)


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## Big Daddy

Ok... I would like to know what you have included in your hourly rate... is that simply wages or do you factor your fuel, insurance, etc... We have an hourly set rate.. but we build our bids by factoring in % above our wages for these items... Thanks.


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## Big Daddy

I should clarify... we add a % for covering our insurances, fuel and any repairs/etc... in addition to the bottom hourly rate... We consider the hourly a "base" but wondered how you viewed it? THanks...


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## grandview

Isn't Erie Pa. at 35.00 an hour?


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## Big Daddy

Grandview, That is what I wondered, but yet I hear that the hourly rate national average is way above $80... So, go figure And we were told our "base" rate of $65 (before fuel, insurance and repairs) was considered far below the national standard... So, my question, What does that mean??? Truly... My standard in Ohio is not going to relate to you in NY...


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## ff610

grandview;1065600 said:


> Isn't Erie Pa. at 35.00 an hour?


So they say! I wouldn't plow with anything except maybe a lawn mower for those prices! LOL I hope when people are setting their hourly rate they are taking into consideration the cost of doing business, How could you even afford $35.hr if you were working out of your garage??


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## TPC Services

( ff610 )In Des Moines, they are plowing places for $55 for commercial and $15 for drives, Soon it will be $35, But then again they bid it by the hour and then jack their hours & Materials to do it on these commercial properties an get away with it. For example there's a clown here that charged this Property management company 30 tons of sand for one of their lots. They supposedly fired him an hired us for the next season. We barley used 13 tons a time and they were in love with us did everything right. Then the next season after that they gave it back to that clown because his prices were lower again an he swore he wouldn’t screw them again!! LOWBALLERS!! an scam artists, that’s what this town has turn into.


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## Matson Snow

grandview;1065600 said:


> Isn't Erie Pa. at 35.00 an hour?


And a Seasonal contract on a Lowes goes for like $79.95...


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## TPC Services

just like Macco's old slogan, but instead of will paint your car for $59.95 will plow your property for $55.55!!


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## Sawboy

I am in the near west suburbs of Chicago. Rates here are $65/hr with 8.5' or less. $70 with 9' & up.


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## fordpsd

Are these prices as a sub? Or prices you charge the customer directly?


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## Sawboy

Sub prices. Getting back in this year after a six year hiatus, so I wanted to get some steady, no thought work for the first year or so to cover startup costs, so I will be subbing for someone. When I was on my own, I did per push pricing, and I averaged about $140/hr over the course of a season.


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## bartelamia

*Da Man*

$140 sounds good .$35 would be your in-laws:laughing:


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## Sawboy

I had small lots, auto repair shops, pizza places etc. Priced em right, and cleaned em real good. Never had an issue. Got out because of job change.


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## Mackman

I sub under my unlce. I plow roads and get 110/hr. Thats for an 8'6" and spreader. Plow only is 85/hr. He has one spreader he leases to a guy and he get 95/hr just cuz my unlces spreader is in his truck. Hopes this helps.


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## redman6565

ff610;1065581 said:


> That is correct! I would also add that anyone less then $60 anywhere is too cheap for the industry! (Lowballer)


i guess i'm borderline lowballer.

but i don't include insurance because that's what the construction company is for. snowplowing is stictly icing on the cake, so I can afford to do that. There is no overhead because I handling every aspect, and hell I even manage to make it out there every morning.


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## ff610

redman6565;1066459 said:


> i guess i'm borderline lowballer.
> 
> but i don't include insurance because that's what the construction company is for. snowplowing is stictly icing on the cake, so I can afford to do that. There is no overhead because I handling every aspect, and hell I even manage to make it out there every morning.


Right, that's the difference. The difference is in the overhead and other cost to do business. If you work out of your garage, or nothing you save a ton. If you work as a sub you save a ton also and less headache. Oh the good 'ol days of doing a one man show.... Anyways that big difference in cost. Your contractor doesn't require you to have liability insurance??


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## eskimoman

*Amazing Rates*

I am amazed at how high some of the rates are being talked about here. We are fighting to get $52.00 for a one ton w/ a ten foot plow!

We struggle with the "lowballers" and their constant under cutting. The only solution I have made work with limited success is pointing out to potential clients the liability insurance we have in place. Surprisingly about half of the commercial clients I have spoken w/ regarding insurance feel comfortable that their own liability insurance is more than enough coverage. At that point in the conversation I am pretty much out of talking points and out of the running for getting the job.

As much as I personally dislike it we are having to bid taking a minimum profit for the first season than after proving ourselves trying to get a little extra bump in the following seasons to get the overall profit margin up to where we feel comfortable we are being compensated fairly for the service we are providing.

I'm open to any ideas readers may have on this subject - as a dedicated company that only does snow & ice management we have no fall back position when the season is over. Understand, we do not want to get back into the lawn mowing and such market - that is even more brutal when it comes to pricing in our area.

Additionally, I am always in the market for used equipment and talking with any and all professional snow people. This forum represents the most likely path for all professionals in this field to interact and support each other. The end result will hopefully be a more disciplined profession with qualified people owning and operating snow & ice management companies.

thanks,

Ted Sr.


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## mullis56

This is 100% regionally priced, based on market conditions, amount of pushes per year on avg, etc., don't know why it is re-hashed and re-hashed again on here. I will say at $35/per hour I wouldn't be in this business...


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## eskimoman

*Fair Assesment*

I would go along with you that it is "rehashed" quite a bit. I do think at the end of the day it provides some basic guidance for new operators to understand how we come up with our rates. It also highlights the challenges we face as operators regarding insurance issues, equipment repairs, etc.

There is no better way to learn as when people talk to each other and groups like this.

Ted Sr.


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## Big Daddy

Ted,
I am glad you have opened it up for discussion. I feel we are facing the fact that the costs are being 'driven" down by various factors. It is always going to be up for debate, whether by nationals, low-ballers or the like why bids are going down. However, in the end, we feel that a new standard of professionalism needs to be set by other professionals. But, that is challenging too because of having to survive and remain competitive. We build ourselves on the relationships we develop w/our client base. It will be something we will never deviate from. However, as we have faced, the loyal large clients who are faced with tough economic issues... they are having to make some tough choices this year about whether they wish to remain with us or try another cheaper bid and risk the lesser quality service. They are simply motivated more by budgets this year. 

We lost our top client 2 seasons ago because of that, and they were back to us to offer a 2 year contract in spring for their plow business. So, it came back. But, at the time, it was a tough pill to swallow. For us, we prefer to remain diversified and hopefully to recoup margins in other areas. 

But, if the trend continues on the way we are seeing in our area, we will rethink snow service offering all together. We are already investigating other avenues and considering alternatives. We can not afford to put our eggs in one basket right now.. at least for us..


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## redman6565

ff610;1066486 said:


> Right, that's the difference. The difference is in the overhead and other cost to do business. If you work out of your garage, or nothing you save a ton. If you work as a sub you save a ton also and less headache. Oh the good 'ol days of doing a one man show.... Anyways that big difference in cost. Your contractor doesn't require you to have liability insurance??


I don't work for a contractor, we perform our own work


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## ff610

redman6565;1067130 said:


> I don't work for a contractor, we perform our own work


So your saying you are the contractor then, but you only write off your insurance costs on other parts of the business? Doesn't that just raise the cost on that side of the company jobs, or do you just have the ability to net more profit there? I guess either way its hard to compare that, because you would have the costs associated with insurance no matter what you write it off on.


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## snowman55

part of why prices are where they are.Redman you are plowing because you will already incure expenses because of your other work. so your fine with lower profit on the other side? Too many guys look at it as income to help them get by. I don't get it. raise your snow and you can lower your ex work to grow that. Snow is the most dangerous, committed service you can provide and people are ok with it being low profit, because it gets them through.


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## TwoBrosLawn

i did 28 driveways last year in the "more expensive" part of southeast WI i averaged abour $110/hr im bidding on 11 commercial lots this year....if i get them, curious too see what i can get up too. (hourly)


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## Longae29

which 11 commercial lots are you bidding on? I will then know not to waste my time.


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## Nursemylawn

I know this who is managing condominiums, it has a straight parking lot about 15000sqft and sidewalks around the lot. He wants me give him an estimate for based on hourly charge. When I asked him how much you paid last year? he said "$300 in hour because they were 3 people, but it took way longer to clean up the lot.. That's why I don't want them this year.. " So, some people pay $300.00 and I'm wondering how much should I charge him..?


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## ktfbgb

Nursemylawn said:


> I know this who is managing condominiums, it has a straight parking lot about 15000sqft and sidewalks around the lot. He wants me give him an estimate for based on hourly charge. When I asked him how much you paid last year? he said "$300 in hour because they were 3 people, but it took way longer to clean up the lot.. That's why I don't want them this year.. " So, some people pay $300.00 and I'm wondering how much should I charge him..?


This thread is 6 years old.


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## Nursemylawn

ktfbgb said:


> This thread is 6 years old.


Thank you ktfbgb!
What are the hourly rates now? I know rates are different in states, but any thing you say will help an um experience person like me..
Thanks


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## Philbilly2

There is so much that goes into this loaded question... 

BUT to simplify it down as much as humanly possible,

You need to first figure out what it costs you to operate, then add on the profit margin that you would like to make. There is your number per hour.


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## ktfbgb

So just to give you an example for comparison. In my area these are the going rates for time and material jobs. I have won several bids with these prices this year, and also lost a couple. That means I'm right in there on price. I also know several owners of other outfits and have compared prices and they are comparable. 

HD truck with straight blade $75 hour one hour min.
HD truck with V blade $85 hour one hr min.
Hand shovelers $40 per man hour min one hr.
Snow blower $65 per hr one hr min.
Compact utility tractor for sidewalks $90 per hour one hr min.
Skid steer with snow bucket $90 per hour two hour min.
Back hoe $120per hour 3 hr min
Bagged ice melt $30 per bag 1/3 bag min($10)

Now these prices are for contracted services that are time and material. These types of contracts are the norm here along with seasonal for commercial plowing. If they are one time or emergency customers the prices are higher. Prices fluctuate every year. We are in a down trend the last couple years as there has been a big influx of contractors for snow. We all think it's going to start to back up over the next couple years. For example three years ago the HD truck with a V blade was charging $120 hr min. Some were $150 min and $120 hr after that.


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## spencers

so thought I would add this on here. A friend referred a plow company to me as they needed help. He sent me over his price sheet which I list below. I turned him down because I am just too busy but unless I am desperate I wouldn't plow for him. I'm pretty fast. I have a 8'2 boss v blade and a boss vbx. He wanted me to use my own stuff including salt. Below are the prices. Location is UTAH. You don't get paid for drive time just the time you are at the properties. What are your thoughts on this. 

Truck with plow $65 hr
toro v plow or atv with plow $45
skid steer with bucket $60
skid steer with pusher $70
dump truck for hauling $85
front end loader with bucks $95
front end loader with pusher $110
backhoe 12' $80 
snow blower $30
hand shoveling $25
sidewalk ice melt .25 per lb
coarse sand/salt ton applied @ $160 a ton


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## ktfbgb

where at in Utah? Im in Flagstaff AZ so not too far south from you. Those prices seem low to me but it is a different state. The ATV only makes 5 bucks an hour more than a hand shoveler here. I could not make it work for those prices and would be better off not doing snow removal. You didn't mention minimums either. Like I put above each service has a minimum charge. And minimums reset each time you leave the property. So you come plow, it takes 20 min. thats a full hour min charge. You come back to clean up, or plow again, or whatever its a new min charge. 

One of my HOA's would be charged like this.

15min plow = $85
I step out of the truck to shovel the community mailbox area and throw two handfuls of ice melt. 5 min. $40 plus $10 min for ice melt

Total= $135

It snows an additional 3 inches that day and you come back to do the same service its another $135. Some guys will try to make you keep a running time sheet for the whole storm. If thats the case run away. The only way to make money on time and material is to have minimums in place that reset each time you leave the property.


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## spencers

they didn't give min like that. It's just I show up and write my time down when I show up and when I leave the property. I would be plowing in a truck so I would just have to write down the time I show up at each place and the time I leave and then I would be taxed. lol


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## spencers

I'm in Salt Lake area


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## spencers

I think the company charges per push and they just hope it doesn't take me long. So if they get 200 per push and it takes me 1 hr they pay me 65 bucks and they pocket the rest.


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## ktfbgb

Yep they are going to pay you to the minute that you are on the property for the total amount of time that you plow for the whole storm. So I wasn't really sure but from your last post I see now that you are subbing. Since you aren't having to pay insurance and stuff for those lots it may be an ok way to fill holes in your route. I have never formally subbed for anyone but the stuff I personally sub out like the back hoe and skid steer I add $20 per hour to what the sub is getting so those numbers seem about right now


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## spencers

yeah for sure. I have a ton of account but a friend referred this guy to me because he needed help. I have insurance and everything any ways because I need it for my business. I just don't think it's worth the price for wear and tear and to run all over for him. He pays that price for even someone that is a rookie. lol


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## ktfbgb

spencers said:


> yeah for sure. I have a ton of account but a friend referred this guy to me because he needed help. I have insurance and everything any ways because I need it for my business. I just don't think it's worth the price for wear and tear and to run all over for him. He pays that price for even someone that is a rookie. lol


Exactly


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## 906Yooper

Stuff like this I can't compete with. Fortunately, I'm getting ready to retire. Put my years in.

http://up.craigslist.org/for/5878509144.html


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## areoseek

grandview said:


> Isn't Erie Pa. at 35.00 an hour?


The scary part about that statement is that it's pretty close. Every joe blow and their mother has a plow up here. very few with the correct insurance though... makes it hard for people going legit to make $$$. people driving prices down.


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## Roy1347

Hi all.
Anyone from Mid Hudson Valley NY in here??
New,Old guy trying to learn.
Pricing,insurance etc.
First truck and not going to put my ass on the line without lube!!
Thanks


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## Nursemylawn

Thank you very much everyone for your informative messages!! 
Also, I'm trying to buy a snow spreader, but I don't have enough money to buy one of those big hopper spreaders. Do you guys recommend the tailgate spreaders? Home Depot has 400lbs around $1000.00 but I don't know if that's big enough for parking lots.. I don't have a lot customers now but I want to get something that I could use it for long term..
Thanks in advance...


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## ktfbgb

What brand spreader is it. Remember you get what you pay for and that's a lot cheaper than most normal tailgate spreaders.


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## Nursemylawn

ktfbgb said:


> What brand spreader is it. Remember you get what you pay for and that's a lot cheaper than most normal tailgate spreaders.


http://m.homedepot.com/p/Meyer-400-lb-2-in-Receiver-Hitch-Mounted-Tailgate-Spreader-36100/202326191


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## ktfbgb

It's iffy I think. I don't think that model has a vibrator or anything in it. Maybe someone else can give an opinion on that unit. What is the biggest area you have to salt this year? The high quality broadcast walk behind will throw a 18 foot pattern. They are like 350-500 bucks and will hold 100 pounds of salt. If you don't have big stuff to salt this year you could save 600 bucks over that tailgate spreader and put that money toward a V box next year?


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## Ford.crazy

I run one like this, for small lots on one of our small pickups. I have an older model can't remember the model number right now. Anyways if the salt is dry and doesn't get any moisture in it, it will work fine. The electric motor is another problem. All the road salt and slush gets right in the motor, be ready to buy a motor a year or two, depending how much you use it.. They cost a couple hundred bucks. I prefer a v box any day of the week, but they do have an advantage over a big v box. easy to store, can take it on and off quick and cheaper to buy.


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## Nursemylawn

ktfbgb said:


> It's iffy I think. I don't think that model has a vibrator or anything in it. Maybe someone else can give an opinion on that unit. What is the biggest area you have to salt this year? The high quality broadcast walk behind will throw a 18 foot pattern. They are like 350-500 bucks and will hold 100 pounds of salt. If you don't have big stuff to salt this year you could save 600 bucks over that tailgate spreader and put that money toward a V box next year?


Thank you! I'll get a walk behind this year hopefully make some $$ to update it


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## Nursemylawn

ktfbgb said:


> What brand spreader is it. Remember you get what you pay for and that's a lot cheaper than most normal tailgate spreaders.


Hi ktftgb, 
Do you know how to send a private message on this website?


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## ktfbgb

You just go to their profile and hit the start a conversation


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## Nursemylawn

ktfbgb said:


> You just go to their profile and hit the start a conversation


But still it will be visible for others if they open your profile?


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## ktfbgb

I don't think so. Not sure though


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## JCONTRACTING

areoseek said:


> The scary part about that statement is that it's pretty close. Every joe blow and their mother has a plow up here. very few with the correct insurance though... makes it hard for people going legit to make $$$. people driving prices down.


That is for sub work though, if you're pushing your own work you better be charging far more than that.


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## leolkfrm

thought we had a way to pm?...maybe it was the old software?


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## AccuCon

Some excellent information in here.

I have never subbed myself but I can tell you one thing, and I'm pretty sure we all can agree to this, the client always thinks it's too much. In fact I bet you could pay them to plow their lot and they would still say it costs too much.

I have yet to find a customer that's a fan of the billing aspect, they all love the service though.

As for the hourly discussion I have heard operators getting 35 an hour.


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> There is so much that goes into this loaded question...
> 
> BUT to simplify it down as much as humanly possible,
> 
> You need to first figure out what it costs you to operate, then add on the profit margin that you would like to make. There is your number per hour.


I used to get in trouble for giving this kind of advice........


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## JCONTRACTING

Mark Oomkes said:


> I used to get in trouble for giving this kind of advice........


Kind of goofy to get into trouble for giving that kind of advice... kinda part of what we are all here for.


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## spencers

Nursemylawn said:


> Thank you very much everyone for your informative messages!!
> Also, I'm trying to buy a snow spreader, but I don't have enough money to buy one of those big hopper spreaders. Do you guys recommend the tailgate spreaders? Home Depot has 400lbs around $1000.00 but I don't know if that's big enough for parking lots.. I don't have a lot customers now but I want to get something that I could use it for long term..
> Thanks in advance...


Don't get a tailgate spreader. I had a salt dogg tail gate one with a vibrator and it worked but wasn't the greatest. I now have the new BOSS VBX and love it. I would save your pennies and get a in bed salter


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## AccuCon

Tailgates are fine if you are smaller. Almost the same cost as a small vbox. You can find them on craigslist I would get the biggest tailgate you can though, like SnowEx 1075. 

If you dont have a loader, then no point in setting up your own bulk salt operation. Thus you will rely on retail yards, now you are relaying on someone else; personally I don't like relying on anyone else.

If you can find a good tailgate spreader on craigslist, score. Then find a good price on bagged per pallet. Stock up and be prepared to get jacked over winter.


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## spencers

AccuCon does have a point. If you don't have a loader then a tailgate you will need. If you are going to use bulk salt and shovel it in get a tailgate that has a vibrator and an auger. I had a bigger salt dogg and we had to modify it because it didn't have an auger and it just used a ton of salt because of it. I would stick with Boss or SnowEX for a tailgate spreader.


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## areoseek

Keep in mind, if you're good with a welder and know basic electronics, It's quite easy to build one. and about 1/3 the price.


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## norb5150

areoseek said:


> The scary part about that statement is that it's pretty close. Every joe blow and their mother has a plow up here. very few with the correct insurance though... makes it hard for people going legit to make $$$. people driving prices down.


It takes a little bit of effort and time, but print off a few of your COI's and go to some businesses around the area show them you have the proper insurance and explain to them all the liabilities and risks they are taking on having the cheap guy with no insurance plowing their place of business. Most businesses think the vehicle insurance of the guy plowing covers everything. You won't win them all but you'll gain some customers. The businesses who don't care about who plows, you don't want to work for them or provide them any service anyway.


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## iceyman

I have the biggest saltdogg tailgate spreader that is made. Holds like 20 bags or somewhere close. Going on 4th season and it has performed flawlessy for us.


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## andersman02

Hourly rates...
We don't do them. Maybe a couple times a year my friends who owns 10 apt complex, sometimes I'll help do a few. Charge them $95/hr. Western wideout. Average id say $120/hr+ on our non hourlies


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## Mister Nature Lawn Care

redman6565 said:


> i guess i'm borderline lowballer.
> 
> but i don't include insurance because that's what the construction company is for. snowplowing is stictly icing on the cake, so I can afford to do that. There is no overhead because I handling every aspect, and hell I even manage to make it out there every morning.


Is 60 a lowballing for residential plowing or commercial?


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## Hydromaster

Mister Nature Lawn Care said:


> Is 60 a lowballing for residential plowing or commercial?


Do you believe the post you quoted?
I don't.
He Chooses to ignore all of the overhead .
his other operations has to pay the overhead for the snowplowing operation. he's just ignoring the fact that everybody has overhead.
Or
He's running the snow side, under the table and if things go sideways he'll fall back on his companies insurance.
I sure hope snow plowing is listed...

Next to your question
What?
60 what?
What are your costs of operation?( overhead)
What are you plowing with?

60 to plow what size lot?


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## Philbilly2

Mister Nature Lawn Care said:


> Is 60 a lowballing for residential plowing or commercial?


yes


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## jonniesmooth

Ok, how did I get sucked into this? 
This thread was last posted in in 2016 until today. I read the whole thing, at some point it had been dormant for 6 years prior to that?
I was reading posts and thinking, I don't recognize many of these names. Like I was in the twilight zone.


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## Philbilly2

jonniesmooth said:


> Ok, how did I get sucked into this?
> This thread was last posted in in 2016 until today. I read the whole thing, at some point it had been dormant for 6 years prior to that?
> I was reading posts and thinking, I don't recognize many of these names. Like I was in the twilight zone.


I was the opposite... I was thinking... "wonder what happened to that guy... and that guy... and woah... blast from the past with that guy...." lol


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## leolkfrm

i know what happened to redman 6565 LOL


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## farmboy555

Never lost a dime on a job I didn’t get


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## Philbilly2

farmboy555 said:


> Never lost a dime on a job I didn't get


Zero cost outlay in bidding work?

Please explain to me how you accomplish this?


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> Zero cost outlay in bidding work?
> 
> Please explain to me how you accomplish this?


You're not going to start with the math thing again, are you?


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> You're not going to start with the math thing again, are you?


No sir. Trying to learn...

I just don't understand what I am doing wrong?

If I get 10% of the work that we bid, it's a good year... but for some reason, the 90% of the work that we don't get, I don't get a refund on the time invested and outlay involved in submitting the bid. Still comes off the bottom line.


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> No sir. Trying to learn...
> 
> I just don't understand what I am doing wrong?
> 
> If I get 10% of the work that we bid, it's a good year... but for some reason, the 90% of the work that we don't get, I don't get a refund on the time invested and outlay involved in submitting the bid. Still comes off the bottom line.


Oh geez...90 and 10 equals 97, amiright?


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Oh geez...90 and 10 equals 97, amiright?


you forgot to carry the 6... Thumbs Up

And we use common core math on here, so if you have 90 oranges and you add 10 apples, how many used car tires can you fit inside a Plymouth?


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## SHAWZER

Depends if the Plymouth is a 383 or a 440 .....


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> you forgot to carry the 6... Thumbs Up
> 
> And we use common core math on here, so if you have 90 oranges and you add 10 apples, how many used car tires can you fit inside a Plymouth?


Yes???


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## leigh

Philbilly2 said:


> Zero cost outlay in bidding work?
> 
> Please explain to me how you accomplish this?


 I send my wife out on bids, she owes me for my, oh never mind.


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## FredG

SHAWZER said:


> Depends if the Plymouth is a 383 or a 440 .....


 The Plymouth is a blast from the past just like this post.


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## Gracefulsnow

I charge direct to customer $140/hour with skid and box pusher. $110/hour for truck with wideout and other truck with 11.5ft v with wings. 

I sub at 105 with skid and 95 with each truck. 

Madison WI


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