# Old Western pump issue



## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

A few years back I bought a 78 Chevy 3/4 ton with a Western 7 1/2' blade. Manual states it is a Isarmatic Mark IIIa pump/motor.

I noticed last year the blade wouldnt lift up, without help, until it got cold out. The colder it got, the better the blade would lift. I just figured the oil was super old ( thined out ) and needed replacing. Since I only plow my own drive, I let it go until now.

Today I drained/changed the oil ( used auto trans fluid like the manual stated ). Took 1.5 quarts. Problem is, the blade still isnt lifting. I can turn the blade side to side, it just wont lift ( unless I lift blade by hand while someone else uses the joystick ).

I surely can not afford a whole new pump. Does it sound possible to fix this old one?

Does it sound like the pump assemby needs replaced, or does it have something to do with the plunger ram?

Is either something easy enough for a novice to change?

Thank you for your help.

Photos of the pump/motor assembly:


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## drp (Oct 12, 2009)

could be a cable adjustment. Rectangular plate for lift I believe. manually activate the valve while some body runs the pump.

Or could be a week hydraulic pump, easy to replace and not to pricey.

A manual for your unit can be found on westerns website.


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## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

drp;837714 said:


> could be a cable adjustment. Rectangular plate for lift I believe. manually activate the valve while some body runs the pump.


Since it lifts fine in super cold weather, I'm assuming it isn't a cable adjustment?



> Or could be a week hydraulic pump, easy to replace and not to pricey.


Yes, this is sort of what I thought it could be, but didnt want to spend $140 and it not be the problem.



> A manual for your unit can be found on westerns website.


I have the manual that came with the truck.


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## drp (Oct 12, 2009)

You mean the manual for the plow?

Service manuals can also be found on Westerns site which might help you trouble shoot the issue.

Running good cold seems odd. I would have expected the opposite if it is a pump problem. However the weak lift and still okay angle does sound like a week pump.
It takes less pressure to angle than lift.


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## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

drp;837726 said:


> You mean the manual for the plow?
> 
> Service manuals can also be found on Westerns site which might help you trouble shoot the issue.


I ment there was a small owners manual for the plow, when I bought the truck.



> Running good cold seems odd. I would have expected the opposite if it is a pump problem. However the weak lift and still okay angle does sound like a week pump.
> It takes less pressure to angle than lift.


My thoughts are if a pump seals are old and maybe cracked, the thin fluid by-passes the seals. When the fliud is cold and much thicker, it can not by-pass the seals. The colder it is out, the faster the plow will lift.

I'm no machanic, just thinking outloud here.


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## drp (Oct 12, 2009)

http://www.westernplows.com/pdf/62880.pdf

Mechanics service manual with trouble shooting guide and test and adjustment procedures.

Hope this helps.

These units are really very easy to work on with out the electronics of the newer units.


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## drp (Oct 12, 2009)

The ticker (cold) the fluid the slower the flow as the pump has to work harder to move it.
At -20C my unit, which was the same as yours, would hardly move until the fluid warmed up.


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## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

drp;837745 said:


> The ticker (cold) the fluid the slower the flow as the pump has to work harder to move it.
> At -20C my unit, which was the same as yours, would hardly move until the fluid warmed up.


hmmm, wierd. Just the opposite of what mine is doing.

Thanx for the manual. That will help, if I have to replace the pump. I'm hoping it's just the pump. While the manual makes it look fairly easy, I dont want to rebuild the whole thing if it isnt needed.


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## drp (Oct 12, 2009)

pump replacement is easy. Drain fluid. Remove battery cables remove two bolts holding the motor to the body. Lift of motor. Remove two bolts holding pump in place and remove pump and filter as a unit. New filter on new pump watch for o-ring on bottom when installing new pump. Now reverse disassemble to reassemble. Add fresh fluid. Takes about a half hour start to finish.


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## Plowfixguys (Oct 17, 2009)

Jim its easy to test the pump when its in the power unit. If you have or can borrow a pressure gauge (2000 psi max is good) hook it up to the one of the angle ports and angle the plow (hoses disconnected). Watch the gauge and note the highest pressure achieved with the motor running. If you get 1600 to 1800 psi your pump is good, if not, check and or replace the o ring under the pump and retest. If you still cant get the correct pressure replace the pump.

Good luck


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## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

Plowfixguys;838325 said:


> Jim its easy to test the pump when its in the power unit. If you have or can borrow a pressure gauge (2000 psi max is good) hook it up to the one of the angle ports and angle the plow (hoses disconnected). Watch the gauge and note the highest pressure achieved with the motor running. If you get 1600 to 1800 psi your pump is good, if not, check and or replace the o ring under the pump and retest. If you still cant get the correct pressure replace the pump.
> 
> Good luck


I dont have a guage available to me.

I will take the pump out and check the o-ring under it. Just might be the gremlin I'm after.


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## drp (Oct 12, 2009)

Any luck so far?


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## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

drp;842423 said:


> Any luck so far?


Sorry, I'm out of town for a week. I'll give the o-ring a try when I get back.


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## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

UPDATE:

Replaced O-ring under pump, no help.

I have ordered a new pump. I will post results after it is installed.


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## WeDoSnowplowing (Nov 9, 2009)

I look at the Mechanics service manual. Looks like need to order a new one. Plunger Ram looks rusted good. That can eat away the seal. Get a completed pump. with a warranty


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## Turf Commando (Dec 16, 2007)

Have the same set -up and my blade did the same thing unless, I was assisted while pushing it up.
I could go left or right just not up... ALL it was cable out of adjustment....


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## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

Turf Commando;864489 said:


> Have the same set -up and my blade did the same thing unless, I was assisted while pushing it up.
> I could go left or right just not up... ALL it was cable out of adjustment....


Re-read the original post. It only does this when the fliud is warm. Once the outside temp gets below freezing, it works fine. The colder it is out, the better it would work. If it was a cable adjustment, it would be the same problem reguardless of the temp outside.

Anyways, pump came in today. I'll see if I can find time in the next couple days to replace it. I'll report back on how/if it helps.


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## Turf Commando (Dec 16, 2007)

Well then you have a piece of junk ...!


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## drp (Oct 12, 2009)

Now that is uncalled for.


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## drp (Oct 12, 2009)

Well Jim I am curious did the pump fix the problem?


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## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

Just installed it today. And no, it didnt. 

New motor $115
New Pump $145
=============
$260 later and no luck. 

I should have bought a rebuilt unit for $500


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## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

Since this seems to relate to how thick the oil is. Is the Western brand plow oil thicker than Type F/Mercron Auto trans fliud?


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## drp (Oct 12, 2009)

Don't think so. I used to be told to cut the trans fluid with gas line antifreeze to make it thinner when using it in cold weather.


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## swmipropertymai (Dec 12, 2009)

just a thought maybe the plows cables are ever so slightly out of adjustment? metal expands and contracts with temperature... cables on the old westerns do weird things from my experiance with them i have spent hours upon hours troubleshooting them and 90% of the time its the cables needed very slight adjustments.


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## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

I turned up the pressure adjustment screw an additional 1/8+ turn and it's working fine. I'm just hoping it doesnt get too hi of pressure when it gets down real cold and blow a seal.

I've got a used pump for sale if someone need's one. Includes a new O-ring and motor gasket...LOL


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## JimRoss (Sep 23, 2003)

swmipropertymai;901462 said:


> just a thought maybe the plows cables are ever so slightly out of adjustment? metal expands and contracts with temperature... cables on the old westerns do weird things from my experiance with them i have spent hours upon hours troubleshooting them and 90% of the time its the cables needed very slight adjustments.


Before I turned up the pressure, I tried moving the lever by hand. No help ( same problem ).


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## swmipropertymai (Dec 12, 2009)

*pump*

Jim, send me a email about the pump and where at in mi you are, I am interested in buying it.

[email protected]


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