# Lets build a liquid sprayer



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Now, first every one here needs to realize, i have very limited experiance with liquids.

Number 2 - im building this on a budget, and mostly with spare parts i have laying around. for this reason understand, IF i think the cost effectiveness is worth it, then i might decide to buy a larger, more professional rig, until then , this is the way i would like to TRY, as an EXPERIMENT ...so please understand im not going to be wasting money on expensive pumps and motors, till i see how i like it

I would like as much imput as possible =) all ideas are welcome  


if i do my math correctly , and if some one could check it .....let me know

If i have a 7 GPM pump flow, and i want to apply at 30 gals per acre, with a 10 foot boom, 

i would need to drive at about 10 mph? does this seem right to you? , is the application rate correct? 

I know 10 mph isnt super fast, but it isnt slow either and should get the job done, for experimental purpuses

I will be using two - 3.8 GPM electric pumps, as i have one already sitting around.... my reasoning is simple. instead of speading money for elec. valves, i can just turn the pumps on and off , which worked good on a lawn sprayer i use to use..... i will have pressure gauges for both pumps, and i will be mounting them to my back rack, so that i can turn around in the cab to read the pressure.... 

for now pressure regulation will be done with a shut off valve. as i have a feeling it will run wide open 90% of the time anyway

nozzels, i dont really have a clue... should i use a stream spray ? i know the wind is going to be a big factor, a steam might be better ... i was thinking a total of 20 nozzels? which would make it ever 6 inches? 7 foot boom , with the last two nozzels,on each side being angle outword... 

any thoughts from any one?


----------



## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

Try and find someone that has nozzles you can maybe try for a test.
At 10mph I would think the stream would work good but trial and error will get you the right pressure and nozzle. Now would be the best time to try it with just water and see how it sprays. (just my thoughts)
I may be trying something like this soon too. Keep us posted please.


----------



## RacerBren (Nov 6, 2005)

We apply at about 10mph. Our trash pump is on a 5 or 6 hp honda. I don't know the gpm off the top of my head...What kind of liquid will you we using?


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

not sure either? brine , will more than likely be the base control tester

from what i have read , you sould be applying it at 30 gallons per ACRE ? what do you apply at?


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

i know the boom sprayer i had (cheap one) , 7 nozzels, 3.8 pump, (which was putting out abour 3 GPM at 40 psi, 10 foot boom, 1 gal per 1000sqft was about 3 mph

so thats 45 gallons per acre..... so two pumps would be 90 gallons per acre, or if you mulitply the speed by 3 , then you apply 30 gals, per acre 9 mph..and again i think i could have gotten more flow out of it


----------



## amscontr (Dec 7, 2007)

How about a Hypro D503 GRGI/B7S 8.5 hp motor pump would that make a good sprayer set up? It was used for a sprayer at a golf course,I was just kind of curious,I'm not to familiar with sprayers(if you can't tell).


----------



## RacerBren (Nov 6, 2005)

We apply Magic at 25-35 gallon per acre. More to start and less as we get into the season.


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

amscontr;572114 said:


> How about a Hypro D503 GRGI/B7S 8.5 hp motor pump would that make a good sprayer set up? It was used for a sprayer at a golf course,I was just kind of curious,I'm not to familiar with sprayers(if you can't tell).


sounds good, but im no expert


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

ok i had some one smart ...lol double check my math, and we both aggreed that 30 gals, per acre at a flow of 7 gpm, would be about 11.5 mph...


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

SJ3-08-VP ....how about 10 of these nozzles? , made by tee jet

http://www.teejet.com/media/df9ded94-f18e-4b4a-a6f1-c0db78708fbd-CAT50-US_LoRes_p048.pdf


----------



## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

wow.....where do i start lol

ok first of all

you only care about P.S.I. in one place...at the boom

you will need more than 2 3.8gpm pumps because you are going to have some preasure loss, and what i mean by that is. the boom is going to stay under preasure.....like 20 p.s.i. becouse you want more pump than you have nzzle or you cant meter the liquid if it's dribbling out of the nozzle, let the nozzle be youre flow restrictor not a ball valve...unless you have plent of presure then you need a flow regulator

you are going to want a streamjet yes but you neet one ofr "fertilizer banding" that has a single orriface in it, liquid works it's best if it's in a stream or pool so it has enough weight to it so it can "burn" below the ice........unless it's a pretreat and then you would want a fan nozzle

youre speed will be determined on what youre boom p.s.i. is not how much youre pump can pump it a wood chuck could chuck wood lol 

you only need nozzles every 10 inches any farther, no good , any closer, overkill (and you dont have enough pump btw)

check out my thread on "calcium chloride sprayer" http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=56651&highlight=chloride

this year i bought a 450 gal with a hydraulic driven centrifigul 1.5 pump so we'll be using the 5500 and the toolcat

i am not saying you have to spend as much money as i did but....what i am saying is that this system works verry well and it covers 18feet..........this year it has a GPS lightbar on it lol and be on the toolcat and stay onsite \

you wont need to regulate youre flow with a ball valve lol

if you are going to just turn the pumps on and off you will have to have anti-siphon nozzle bodies wich have a 5p.s.i. drop to them (they take 5 psi to open so it "robs" 5psi from youre boom) and

it also helps if you know a little about farm spraying,.....let youre pumps and chemical dictate youre nozzle selection

10 foot boom is way too much for this setup........you need more like a 36" boom lol

8'wide and one mile long is ~one acre i think 46,358sq feet

so here is what i propose, cheap and hopefully effective also..... plumb everything in 1.5" poly, put a 1.5" poly ball valve NOT SOLONOID and then use youre boom as youre nozzles and start by drilling a 3/16 inch hole in it for a nozzle, just let it gravity feed you'll be fine....you may have to go clear up to a 1/2 inch hole before youre done lol. drill youre holes every 10" or whatever falls on a even spread on about 8'

use a big enough tank so that you have at least a 1.5" bung in it or all will be lost.

hope this helps

if you have any Q's call me and i'll help you with what i know, even though it aint much

later tonight i'll try to post some pics of what i am talking about.....i am setting here in the dark right now lol

Rick/PJ


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

i will give that a thought.... and i did alread look at your 18 foot prior

my question ... and im not doubting ur knowlege, you must have more experiance than i do at this point

i already have a 10 foot boom sprayer, rigged up to a mower that i dont use..... it has 7 nozzles... and a 3.8 pump. it can hold pressure at the boom 60 psi max, then an electronic switch cuts it off.... i run it at 40 psi, and at about 3 mph , is 45 gals per acre.... the nozzles are fine mist...so they drift alot, and i would need to try others. but if i drove at 5 mph, that would be 30 gals per acre, and i have timed/measured this units out put

so y couldnt i just double up the pump and nozzels? i realize y i wouldnt want to max out the pump, and would rather have the nozzels be the ristriction point ..

i could put the pressure gauge towards the boom , simple enough

anti-sifon? if i was spraying chemical on food cropps, you know i might consder it... but this little boom srayer doesnt have one, and it seems to do just fine ? i think. granted , you do have to give the pump 2 seconds to catch up to the nozzles,...so out put for the first 2 seconds isnt the greatest. they dont drip either,


----------



## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

Build the damn thing then...what do i iknow  

20" spacing is typacle

do you even know what type of nozzles you have?.....what color are they?who makes them? what is the name of them?..

and first of all.....water is 8.3lb/gal and chloride is (depending on what you want) 10-12lb/gal use conversion factor in pic1

where the nozzles come into play is in pic2

PJ


----------



## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

I'm thinkin PJ knows what he is talkin about. Just a hunch


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

i dont doubt PJ at all in what he knows 

well i did some experimentation .... 

i put the sprayer on a sufer, wired it back up, drilled holes in the nozzles with the smalles size drill bit that i had laying around- which i thought was kinda large....

the best i could come up with was 5 nozzles, with 1 pump, so twice that, at power jokers recomendations -10 inch spacing , would give me an 8 foot boom..... 8 feet , isnt 10 ...but a few of my plows are around 8 feet, so its something to think about

1 pump, with my drilled nozzels emptyed 5 gals in 1 min 37 seconds approx. that would mean that to cover an acre with 30 gals, would take about 5 mins (2 pumps) 8 foot boom, would mean a travel speed of around 11 mph, rounding

i didnt measure the distance traveled by the machine, but i assume its close to 7 mph, ill post pics, below, just for laughs.... the nozzel spacing in the pics is 20 inches. with 1 pump....so basicly double it up and you get the idea

there isnt much room for any adjustment, with this and more or less it would be operating at max at all times.. of course if i had the proper nozzels, i might have come up with a little more results, .... PSI was around 17 lbs... too low, but different nozzels, might fix that

ill reconsider if im going to use a gas motor, or try with the 2 pumps, just at first... i would rahter stay all electric, because my workers are not as mechanicly inclinded as you would like them too be at times.... electric is simple... and no gas 

if any one finds a large 12v pump let me know


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

ok, picutre problems, they will have to wait... i was thinking about using the " red or brown" nozzels? the holes that i drilled were more along the lines of the Light Blue or white colors

any help? it shouldnt matter which way i go with my pump (gas or electric) i should still need the smae nozzles at 10 inches apart


----------



## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

Powerjoke.

Why not a solenoid system to contol the boom that can be run from the cab? Does the brine kill the solenoids?

And how much baffeling is in your tanks. How does your truck "Plow" with a half tank of mix?


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

i think he ment just use manuel valves to keep the cost down for try/ error..

he has solenoids on his,...nice setup


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

im kinda likeing PJ, gravity feed idea.... super cheap, super easy for dumb ppl to work on ...... do you think it would have enought force,to keep the "stream " in tacked for 20 inches...if your driving at 10 mph, while the tank starts to get low?


----------



## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

Snowpower;572514 said:


> Powerjoke.
> 
> Why not a solenoid system to contol the boom that can be run from the cab? Does the brine kill the solenoids?
> well yeah but the main reason i suggested a ball valve was because of the price....even if he decides to go electric, a 1 1/2" solonoid would coust $300 (if you could even find one  ) as aposed to a 1 1/2" electric ball valve like my new sprayer would cost less than $100
> ...


ELITE: you can buy a calibration jug for about $10 just to keep an eye on it.

if youre going to make youre own brine,,......i have done that too and had mixed result's. it is not as good as mag whitch is not as good as calcium though.....and you can buy the stuff almost as cheap as you can make it.

pj


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

i planed on buying both brine , and calcuim, mainly using the brine... and adding caalcuim , or beat to it on colder days? 

still thinking about what i want to do here. tank is $200 plus dollars, i was looking around and trying to find a cheaper pre made system , found a few for around 1600? PJ, based on your recomendatiosn, what size pump would you go with ?  and was i corrent about using the brown nozzles?


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

You have to buy an hydrometer if your making brine or Mag. This way you can test your batches to see how strong they are. We made up a pre-wetting system for one of our trucks and we also put a tank on our 4-wheeler for anti-icing sidewalks, I think we used yellow nozles but I have check my notes because we havn't used liquids in 6 or 7 years. I really am interested to see how you guys make out because I really didn't see the benefit in liquids unless the temps were very cold. Liquids are good for anti-icing and prewetting but I see no use at all for them in deicing. Maybe I will blow the dust off my tanks and give them a try again, who knows. Good Luck


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

you know , i not seeing a huge beifit towards them ...except to try to save the bulk salt for when we need it or as simply an alternative towards salt if suppy runs low. towards the end of the season

but mostly, i have properts that get presalted prefore the storm , or right as its hitting.... so those might all be done with liquid if the cost is similar

otherwise im not looking to replace bulk salt, but just save it for when its really needed


one nice thing i was thinking.... most of my accounds have dumpster ares, in a fence, i bet i could talk them into letting me put 2 55 gal drumbs on each site.... so need to refile at the shop? well knowing my luck the stuff would freeze in the drums?


----------



## OBRYANMAINT (May 20, 2001)

i got all hot and heavy about using liquids a few years back and bought a pre-wet system for a v box i had at the time...ended up never using it(still in the box) we ended up mixing it on the salt in our bin....and we only use it as mentioned when the temps are below 20 or so and will stay low


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

elite1msmith;572909 said:


> you know , i not seeing a huge beifit towards them ...except to try to save the bulk salt for when we need it or as simply an alternative towards salt if suppy runs low. towards the end of the season
> 
> but mostly, i have properts that get presalted prefore the storm , or right as its hitting.... so those might all be done with liquid if the cost is similar
> 
> ...


I would rather it freeze in the drums, then freeze on my parking lots.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Here's some nice spray setups Look under anti-icing.

http://www.sprayers.com/


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

thanks JD

does kinda come close to proving that it could be done with a 7gpm electric pump. i noticed they had more nozzels, and were claiming an application rate of 15 mph , with a 10 gpm pump.. but i really think i could do it

lol,, then i saw the price.... and i will not be buying that unit

im really liking the gravity idea.......... it sounds so stupid, it just might work well, and a monkey could fix it. the only other problem im having is shuting the system down, and having the fluid stop spraying, i think after closing the valve it might keep going for 30 more seconds? the valve would need to be as close to the boom as possible. one addtional note... unless i want to drill a hole in the bed of my truck, the tail gate would need to come off


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

The 100 gallon tank for prewetting installed was like $1100.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I sorta like the 1235 elliptical, a lot like mine. 

Go big or go home. 

I have some pics on my other 'puter.


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;573632 said:


> I sorta like the 1235 elliptical, a lot like mine.
> 
> Go big or go home.
> 
> I have some pics on my other 'puter.


that might be a consideration , after i get use to the cost and basic set up , for now this is not much more than an experiment for me


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Here's a couple. We were anti-icing that day using Caliber M1000. Used it for some de-icing earlier and worked great, but there are limitations with Caliber.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;573837 said:


> Here's a couple. We were anti-icing that day using Caliber M1000. Used it for some de-icing earlier and worked great, but there are limitations with Caliber.


Really nice pics Mark. If it wasn't for the sign on the back of the truck, I wouldn't have known what you were doing. I really like that set up, I'm considering maybe going with a Hook and Lift for my next truck, that way I could put a multiple of boxes on her, including a setup like yours.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;573840 said:


> Really nice pics Mark. If it wasn't for the sign on the back of the truck, I wouldn't have known what you were doing. I really like that set up, I'm considering maybe going with a Hook and Lift for my next truck, that way I could put a multiple of boxes on her, including a setup like yours.


This was a sort of emergency purchase last winter, when salt was getting short.

We put the sign on to fool our customers, in reality we are applying water, making ice and then having to salt. payup payup

I'd love to do the Hook and Lift thing as well, makes a truck immensely more versatile.

We'll be experimenting with some different formulations of liquids this winter to find one that WILL work for de-icing. After getting bent over by the fuel companies, I will be not be doing the same for the salt companies. :angry:


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Hi :waving:


did some testing with parts i had laying around

gravity system. hear goes, i used 1 1/4 pvc as the boom , 12 holes - 9/64 , i spaced them at different distances to see the differeance between. 2 5 gal tanks, both already had 3/4 threads, so i just used rubber garden hose to feed the system with 2 shut off valves, a hose went into each side of the boom for balance.

heres what i learned

because there is no "steaming pressured spray": 10 inchs is too fare apart. i would go with between 5 and 8 inches 

#2 - the valves will for sure need to be as close to the spray boom as possible, like at the end of the truck bed. the longer the distance, the more drips u get after you close the valve. 

# 3 if you add the size of the drill bit and then multipye by the number of holes you have . you will need at least that size pipe and hose... to feed it. so my 2- 3/4 garden hose, was just a bit under sized. also , you want the hose size (or combination) to be larger than the boom pipe size, which would be based on the nozzle size

#4 the larger your pipe, and hose, the more dripps u get after, so going too big , costs you money... 

#5 , i would probably recommend feeding it with at least 2 hose, maybe 3, ( 1each end , plus t in the middle) this might help with a more accurate spray pattern, as you are turning the vechicle side to side

#6 a check valve, i didnt test it , but i saw some in the store that looked simple and provide little flow loss. i would install it right before or after the valve at the rear of the truck. as you hit the brakes hard, your flow changes because the water runs back towards the tank while in the hose runing the lenth of your bed... im sure a larger tank , might no be as bad, but as it gets low you would notice more and more. a consideration might be the dirrection in relation to the truck , that you liquid comes out of the tank. maybe one on each side (ft and rear corners) to again keep the flow steadty and constent

#7 a thought about the flow stuff, to keep a better flow, might be to "vent" the spray bar, a hose would have to be run from the bar, back up into the truck, and best idea would be to plumb it into the top of the tank, or just hang it up high on the side of the tank. but this might not be nessasary


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

a few quick other notes

the boom vent, will not be nessesary if the flow to the boom is greater than the nozzle size, 

and too help eliminate the "after shut off drips" might consider 3 seperate spray bars, 5 holes each. at 9/64 roughtly , and a 1 inch boom , this would probably change the "waste factor" by 30% after shut down vs using a 2 inch or a single 1 inch bar, but would still need to have multiple feed points that were greater than the sum of the holes drilled


----------



## rblake (Nov 17, 2007)

Mark, what are the limitations on Caliber 1000 ? Talked today to a sales rep from enviro tech regarding Caliber. How did it work on anti icing ? Did you see much residual on the next storm ?


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

so the gravity feed is out, great idea , good on a trial purpose, but heres a few baisc problems... when you shut the valve, you still have liquid coming out , for at least 30 seconds, i estimated this to be around a gallon, maybe a little less. now this isnt a big deal if you do roads, or treat at night, you can just sut it down 30 seconds prior to the end ouf your run. however in tighter lots, that are stop go , due to ******** persons shopping in the middle of a snow storm , you would be wasting ... at a few dollars per gallon, it could quickly add up

im gonna give the electric thing a try , i found 3.8 GPM at the local farm and fleet for $85.00 . so im going to buy 2 of them , plus the third that i already have, this may seem very weird having 3 seperate pumps, but this is still a trieal thing, and the $180 dollars in pumps, will not go to waste if i dont like this set up , im sure i can use them for other things. either that or spend alot more for electric valves


----------

