# Small Business Insurance Premium's



## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

So out of no where my small business insurance has been cancelled.

The company that covers me has been bought out by a much larger company and they are having insanely high premiums in an effort to push out small businesses from snow removal altogether. Here in Ontario insurance companies are fed up with the claims and are putting huge pressure on companies.

I was just quoted at a minimum $5000 premium just for snow removal, not including seasonal landscaping. We are a small company with 4 employee's.

The agent was saying most small companies are throwing in the towel because of these absurd rates.

Is anyone else experiencing this? I'm not sure what to do at this point. Any advice would appreciated.

I can't see myself paying close to $1000 per month for insurance, but if that's what it is then what can I do. 

1 hour North of Toronto, Ontario, Canada.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Do you have insurance brokers in Canada? We went through one to find the most affordable rate for what we were looking for


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Does Ben Insurance do anything up there? Or maybe he could steer you in the right direction. Oh and be glad you ain't in Jersey. I'm a one man operation and my insurance is more than four times that.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

That's expensive, $20,000?

I am looking for brokers right now and other companies.

Let the phone calls & emails begin,


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## Chris33 (Jul 23, 2018)

I'm also in Ontario....

I don't even have a business, my truck only plows my driveway, parents and in laws. truck and me, make no money.

Truck/plow is for personal use only..... was up front with all insurance companies. I wanted to let them know I was driving to 3 different family location, with a plow on the front of my truck..

Most turned me away. I found one company... but paid a bit more then normal.

I almost thought I had to purchase commercial insurance... that would have hurt.

Good luck


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Give Jim a call at Zehr in NewHamburg
519-662-1710
HTH


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

What if I did just residential homes and no commerical jobs.

And I wrote in the contract that we are not liable for slip and falls, etc and both parties signed it.

Would that negate me from requiring business insurance for snow?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Ive done commercial and residential for 25 years. Up till last spring i was insured with Economical the whole time. Not one claim, not even a windsheild claim on the vehicles and not a speeding ticket in that same time frame.
They told me they are not insuring snow anymore. They are also going through a demutualization to be traded on the stock market. I will not invest in them, their current tactics are to make their books look atractive to potential investors. I figure I ve already invested $400k in the time I was with them with nothing to show for it.


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## Chris33 (Jul 23, 2018)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> What if I did just residential homes and no commerical jobs.
> 
> And I wrote in the contract that we are not liable for slip and falls, etc and both parties signed it.
> 
> Would that negate me from requiring business insurance for snow?


As far as I know...

Residential small driveway plowing is still a business... you are making money from it, you will need commercial insurance


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

If every contractor is seeing the same increases and every contractor passes the cost on then the end customer is the only 1 feeling the pinch unless they decide to do it themselves.


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## prezek (Dec 16, 2010)

m_ice said:


> If every contractor is seeing the same increases and every contractor passes the cost on then the end customer is the only 1 feeling the pinch unless they decide to do it themselves.


That's assuming the competitors are carrying insurance...and can do basic math...


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> What if I did just residential homes and no commerical jobs.
> 
> And I wrote in the contract that we are not liable for slip and falls, etc and both parties signed it.
> 
> Would that negate me from requiring business insurance for snow?


You can't negate away someone's right to take legal action against you. Especially when you're culpable of the damage. A single family residential slip and fall claim is the least of your worries. Mainly because it just doesn't happen. Even typical real estate damage on the sides of the driveway isn't a big concern. You need insurance for the catastrophe, like inadvertently sideswiping your clients car parked in the driveway, running into the house taking a wall down, running into the garage door and have it fall onto parked luxury vehicles inside of it, or running over a human being.


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## Ben/Insurance (Oct 22, 2012)

Warrior, you should be looking for a policy that covers your landscaping and your snow removal combined. If you have no claims and your agent/broker can’t find a market, find another. Ideally, a larger independent agent that does a lot of contractor insurance will have the markets you need and the knowledge to get it done. Get 3 year loss runs now. The new broker will need them. Randall, thanks for thinking of me but I’m not licensed in Canada. 
Ben\Insurance


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

We experienced this a few years ago. We were also offered coverage through several brokers, but with many contingencies. They all had stipulations on who we could/could not perform services for.

Ended up with coverage with no restrictions, but at triple the cost. It's a big pill to swallow but it keeps us in the game. We need to support the push for new legislation.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

GMC Driver said:


> We need to support the push for new legislation.


Good luck with that with your racist PM...



Luther said:


> You can't negate away someone's right to take legal action against you. Especially when you're culpable of the damage. A single family residential slip and fall claim is the least of your worries. Mainly because it just doesn't happen. Even typical real estate damage on the sides of the driveway isn't a big concern. You need insurance for the catastrophe, like inadvertently sideswiping your clients car parked in the driveway, running into the house taking a wall down, running into the garage door and have it fall onto parked luxury vehicles inside of it, or running over a human being.


You can't?

Just curious, would one make a claim for plowing up someone's front lawn?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

GMC Driver said:


> We experienced this a few years ago. We were also offered coverage through several brokers, but with many contingencies. They all had stipulations on who we could/could not perform services for.
> 
> Ended up with coverage with no restrictions, but at triple the cost. It's a big pill to swallow but it keeps us in the game. We need to support the push for new legislation.


Happened to me a few years ago with the requirement of "Completed Operations" insurance for select places...

that was a kick in the shorts that I was not ready for...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> I can't see myself paying close to $1000 per month for insurance, but if that's what it is then what can I do.


Not to dip into your finances to much if you don't want to, but if your insurance is kinda relevant to your gross sales in most cases.

So say your only doing 500K in sales a year, at 12K annual, your insurance is still less than 2.5% of your gross sales... that is cheap IMO. Even at 250,000 a year, it is only 5%.

Just my two cents.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> What if I did just residential homes and no commerical jobs.
> 
> And I wrote in the contract that we are not liable for slip and falls, etc and both parties signed it.
> 
> Would that negate me from requiring business insurance for snow?


 If you apply for a international license you can get insurance in the states. I'm not positive it will help you. 1 mill in GL and completed snow operations is cheap in the states.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

$1000 a month would only be $700 US.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

Thanks for your help guys. Definitely pushing forward. Have 2 brokers securing me quotes right now.

Will let you know what my rates are when I get them!

Hoping to land 50 - 60 driveways this season with two crews. Maybe more.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

Luther said:


> You can't negate away someone's right to take legal action against you. Especially when you're culpable of the damage. A single family residential slip and fall claim is the least of your worries. Mainly because it just doesn't happen. Even typical real estate damage on the sides of the driveway isn't a big concern. You need insurance for the catastrophe, like inadvertently sideswiping your clients car parked in the driveway, running into the house taking a wall down, running into the garage door and have it fall onto parked luxury vehicles inside of it, or running over a human being.


Thank you for the response.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

Ben/Insurance said:


> Warrior, you should be looking for a policy that covers your landscaping and your snow removal combined. If you have no claims and your agent/broker can't find a market, find another. Ideally, a larger independent agent that does a lot of contractor insurance will have the markets you need and the knowledge to get it done. Get 3 year loss runs now. The new broker will need them. Randall, thanks for thinking of me but I'm not licensed in Canada.
> Ben\Insurance


Thank you


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

Mr.Markus said:


> Ive done commercial and residential for 25 years. Up till last spring i was insured with Economical the whole time. Not one claim, not even a windsheild claim on the vehicles and not a speeding ticket in that same time frame.
> They told me they are not insuring snow anymore. They are also going through a demutualization to be traded on the stock market. I will not invest in them, their current tactics are to make their books look atractive to potential investors. I figure I ve already invested $400k in the time I was with them with nothing to show for it.


Crazy man!!
Thanks for your input Markus.


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## CarrieSPL (Mar 23, 2019)

Did you have any luck? We are up for renewal in December and worried we will have the same issue!


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## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

We use economical and I know of a couple other companies in our area that use them as well. Very good prices. I had your same problem a few years ago. Try Dan at brokerlink. 1 (800) 268-3394


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## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

You should really consider dropping the work in one of the towns you work in and focusing solely on 1 town. Offer a bit cheaper prices to gain some work back and you will be much happier! I’m not sure on the size of your residential properties, but you should be able to do 23 properties by yourself in 6-8hrs in 1 smaller town. 

We were doing 2 towns that are about 15minutes apart, I believe 21 clients and finally said to hell with it this year. I could do the route myself in about 8hrs but with the wife shovelling the route could get done in around 6hrs. Now, we service 1 town and I know we’re going to be much happier. 

if you can, do one town, and You may not have a need for employees either. You just might end up making more money!


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

HadiCoop said:


> We use economical and I know of a couple other companies in our area that use them as well. Very good prices. I had your same problem a few years ago. Try Dan at brokerlink. 1 (800) 268-3394


Whens your renewal...?


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## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

I actually just got off the phone with dan a few moments ago to put the plow truck back on the road, all this snow coming down...I’m sure someone will call saying they can’t get outta the driveway


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Maybe also tell him to prepare another market other than Economical just in case. Im sure your price is good but they are dumping everybody snow on renewal. It is better to be prepared...


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## HadiCoop (Aug 1, 2016)

Mr.Markus said:


> Maybe also tell him to prepare another market other than Economical just in case. Im sure your price is good but they are dumping everybody snow on renewal. It is better to be prepared...


that's weird, because my rates dropped over last years rate. Not by much, but they did drop. And yes it's very cheap with 2mil liability, I'd probably be fine with 1mil doing all residential.
I know economical doesn't want the guys that are making big money in snow. I believe around $30k in income for snow is where they draw the line.


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## Clodmiran (6 mo ago)

How is your business doing now? By the way, thanks for all the responses in this thread. I knew that it was illegal to operate without general liability insurance. Still, it turns out that it is even more complicated. I also have worker’s compensation insurance and commercial property insurance. I have to pay around $600 US every month, and I think that it’s fine. These insurances have already saved me twice from immense financial loss that would’ve crushed my company. Thankfully, I read this article on https://www.lawncarebusinessinsurance.com/coverage/landscaping-insurance/ in time and got one more insurance so I can be more or less sure that I have a financial backup.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Clodmiran said:


> How is your business doing now? By the way, thanks for all the responses in this thread.


I'll just bet there's not the slightest chance you're a spammer...


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

$5000 $20,000. Our total insurance last year was $56k year for everything. CA,GL,WC,IM, BOP/Umbrella. Plus I have insurance at home/personal and another small business with 3 policies of its own. I miss working alone.


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