# Looking at HD's, 8.1L or Duramax???



## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

So, Ive been watching around my area for about a year now. A duramax with 200,000+ miles sells for 12,000 on up, even with rust. Im eyeing a couple 8.1L trucks though, same trucks (extended and crew cab, short and long boxes, all 4x4) and Seeing a couple that are rust free with 100,000 to 120,000 mile for 7,000 to 13,000 bucks. Im on a budget, dont really want to go too much over $10,000. I plan to plow with it, but not as a "professional", just the way I do now. couple small buisnesses, and residentials, non-contract. It will be a daily driver. I know the Duramax will last longer and fuel consumption is lesser, but the 8.1L doesn't seem to get too bad mileage.  Any suggestions? I've never owned a diesel, but have worked on a couple Duramax, I know its a bit tougher and more expensive to maintain than a gasser.

not sure which pros outweigh which cons.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

If you do a search,this has been discussed ad-nauseum on here forever.My vote would be the Dmax hands down but whatever you choose,if you're not able to do it yourself,hire a mechanic to completely check it out first.By me,even a 2001 Dmax truck would be well over $12K.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

I personally love the 8.1 in my dump truck and wouldn't have it any other way. Due to the weight and gearing, a diesel wouldn't have given me much better fuel consumption.

I'd put my 8.1 up against a diesel any day in terms of power and performance. I've never driven a heavy dually that would chirp the tires and my truck does just that. The 8.1 is also classified as an industrial/marine motor and will stand up against abuse and give you longevity.

Fuel consumption isn't an issue in my case as I have a smaller truck for daily driving and lighter work. If you plan on using constantly, then you might want to steer towards a diesel in that regard.


.....


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## LCPullman (Oct 1, 2008)

I have both, and their both excellent engines with lots of power. If you are comparing a 200k duramax to a 120k 8.1, I'd take the 8.1 any day. The duramax gets expensive very quickly if you have to start replacing things (like injectors, pumps, etc) 
Now of course, the 8.1 really does use the fuel . . .

P.S. The front end will love not having to hold up a diesel if you put a plow on it.


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

LCPullman;1459146 said:


> I have both, and their both excellent engines with lots of power. If you are comparing a 200k duramax to a 120k 8.1, I'd take the 8.1 any day. The duramax gets expensive very quickly if you have to start replacing things (like injectors, pumps, etc)
> Now of course, the 8.1 really does use the fuel . . .


Well, I made it a rule to look only for Duramaxs that have had the injectors replaced. The maintenance was a concern on the d-max, like you said pumps and what not..

and the 8.1L, from what i read on forums and such, gets 10-12mpg avg, which is exactly what i get now with my 184,000 mile 98 silverado. granted I drive it kinda hard, but I digress...

where the Duramax will outlast, I sort of feel like the 8.1L may be a better investment at first, and if i get one with 110-120,000 miles for $6-8K, I should be sitting ok, right?

the guy at the bank said the 01 im looking at right now NADA books at like 11,500.. hes asking 8 or best...


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## LCPullman (Oct 1, 2008)

7d9_z28;1459153 said:


> where the Duramax will outlast, I sort of feel like the 8.1L may be a better investment at first, and if i get one with 110-120,000 miles for $6-8K, I should be sitting ok, right?


I assume your talking 01-02? $6-8k sounds about right, depends some on the wear on the vehicle, e.g. worn seats, buttons that don't work, scratches in the paint, small dents, etc. 
With proper care, I think an 8.1 has the potential to get you to 300k mi, I know a dealer around here who ran a 454 to over 300,000 (mostly towing other cars) without lifting the valve covers. 
The Allison is a really nice tranny, much better than the 4L80.

If you do your own work, the 8.1 has much more room under the hood . . . Do you do any towing, or just planning to plow?


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

LCPullman;1459242 said:


> I assume your talking 01-02? $6-8k sounds about right, depends some on the wear on the vehicle, e.g. worn seats, buttons that don't work, scratches in the paint, small dents, etc.
> With proper care, I think an 8.1 has the potential to get you to 300k mi, I know a dealer around here who ran a 454 to over 300,000 (mostly towing other cars) without lifting the valve covers.
> The Allison is a really nice tranny, much better than the 4L80.
> 
> If you do your own work, the 8.1 has much more room under the hood . . . Do you do any towing, or just planning to plow?


yeah this truck is an 01. heres the truck: http://centralmich.craigslist.org/cto/2871485113.html
It has surface rust starting at cab corners (surprise surprise) but no holes. guy seems cool, its getting u joints and a tranny cover? that came loose?

I usually do my own work, save for the fact I do not have a garage so extensive work is iffy. but yeah, I plan to plow, daily drive 3/4 of the year maybe pull a trailer here or there. Like I said it should get about the same mpg as my current truck, with more capability. the MPG is one more factor that leans towards Duramax, plus the tuneability. but I really like this truck!


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

You can tune out an 8.1, but leaving it stock will be fine.

The hardest repair on that motor is replacing the Crank Sensor. Sucker is hard to get to and then to get it to release to come out is a nightmare. Took me 4 hours to get mine out, and 5 minutes to put the new one in. Ended up having to make my own hook tool out of a piece of 1/4inch re-bar to hook on the lip of the sensor to get any grip to pull and not break the head of the sensor off.

Really wish I have the Allison behind mine, they stuck a 4l80E that has bit different internal configuration over the PU truck 4l80E. But, the previous owner got 10 years worth of abuse out of it until it broke right before I bought it. Too bad when they installed it they goofed and cracked the bell housing around one of the mounting bolts, and I'm waiting for the tranny to drop out of it.

...


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## LCPullman (Oct 1, 2008)

7d9_z28;1459264 said:


> its getting u joints and a tranny cover? that came loose?


The only thing I can think of that might be is heat shields protecting the tranny from the exhaust/cat/muffler. Not really sure.

BTW. I'm a little leery of diesel tuning, I wrecked a 6.5 that way . . decided not to try it again. Problem is you can pull so much power out of a diesel that you can't from a gasoline engine that you easily exceed the bounds of its design.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

7d9_z28;1459153 said:


> Well, I made it a rule to look only for Duramaxs that have had the injectors replaced. The maintenance was a concern on the d-max, like you said pumps and what not..
> 
> ...


That's funny, I only look for ones that need those to be fixed. :laughing:


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Philbilly- the little work on diesels i have done, consisted of injectors in a duramax. :realmad: did not enjoy that. Im a certified mechanic, but when I worked in a shop we didnt do any diesel work. that truck was the bosses cousins truck. but that whole family had CCSB duramax 4xs and I drove every one of them and loved it! 

on the note of tuning, there have been alot of advancements, I have seen a stock duramax with just tunes and exhaust pull 900hp and like 1500ft/lbs. I know with twin turbos and heads and whatnot, its INSANE what they can pull for numbers.

the only complaint i ever hear about the 8.1L is the MPG, but like I said thats what I get in my truck right now
Granted, I never hear any complaints about the duramax (save for the injectors)


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

7d9_z28;1459562 said:


> Philbilly- the little work on diesels i have done, consisted of injectors in a duramax. :realmad: did not enjoy that. Im a certified mechanic, but when I worked in a shop we didnt do any diesel work. that truck was the bosses cousins truck. but that whole family had CCSB duramax 4xs and I drove every one of them and loved it!
> 
> on the note of tuning, there have been alot of advancements, I have seen a stock duramax with just tunes and exhaust pull 900hp and like 1500ft/lbs. I know with twin turbos and heads and whatnot, its INSANE what they can pull for numbers.
> 
> ...


Yeah, they suck. I hate doing them. But finding Duramaxs for between $3000 and $5000 becuase the injectors are out. Then putting a set of injectors in to it for $1500 gives you quite a margin for error and for resale.


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Philbilly2;1460587 said:


> Yeah, they suck. I hate doing them. But finding Duramaxs for between $3000 and $5000 becuase the injectors are out. Then putting a set of injectors in to it for $1500 gives you quite a margin for error and for resale.


Theres a duramax dually on a local craigslist, with 345,000 miles and surface rust starting, and hes asking 15,000. thats the kinda pricing im dealing with in my area. I havent seen a single duramax under 10K anywhere near me


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

what do you guys think about this truck and the price? NADA top retail is less than his asking. asking price includes new shocks, programmer, and something else of the like. I told him not to be offended but I would lay an offer of 7500 on the table. based on the other 8.1l trucks on the market with similar mileage, his is the highest priced one ive seen. I really like it though!


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

What cab/ box configuration are you looking for.


Duramaxs under $10,000.

I just found 4 within 13 miles of your zip code
1 more within 29 miles
another one within 62 miles
2 more within 68 miles

All on craigslist

If you want the real cheap ones, you have to drive a little. Down in arkansas and tennesse, the trucks don't seem to hold the gold value like they do up here.


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

definitely not going out of state. that blue/black 8.1 is already 4 hours away.

prefer crew cab short box, but looking at ext. cab short box. my target price is $7000, give or take a little. but Im not going to spend that much on one rusted out, and alot of them in my area have 230,000+ miles on them. not saying thats bad, but Ive never owned a diesel, so that number is high in my mind when I glance at it

forgot to add, looking only at 2500HD 4x4 trucks. and only allison trans trucks


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Are you really saying 900HP is capable on a DMAX with just a Tune? From what I've seen stock internals are only good till about 500hp to the wheels. If those two morons on "two guys garage" can do DMAX injectors, anyone who can turn a wrench can do them.


7d9_z28;1459562 said:


> Philbilly- the little work on diesels i have done, consisted of injectors in a duramax. :realmad: did not enjoy that. Im a certified mechanic, but when I worked in a shop we didnt do any diesel work. that truck was the bosses cousins truck. but that whole family had CCSB duramax 4xs and I drove every one of them and loved it!
> 
> on the note of tuning, there have been alot of advancements, I have seen a stock duramax with just tunes and exhaust pull 900hp and like 1500ft/lbs. I know with twin turbos and heads and whatnot, its INSANE what they can pull for numbers.
> 
> ...


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

plowguy43;1461273 said:


> Are you really saying 900HP is capable on a DMAX with just a Tune? From what I've seen stock internals are only good till about 500hp to the wheels. If those two morons on "two guys garage" can do DMAX injectors, anyone who can turn a wrench can do them.


I odnt know if those ratings were to the wheels or or what, but those were the numbers. stock with tune and exhaust.

And like I said, I HAVE done injectors on a Duramax. Just not fun. or cheap.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Aint nobody making 900 rearwheel hp on a stock duramax... Well it might last for 1 or 2 pulls


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

plowguy43;1461273 said:


> Are you really saying 900HP is capable on a DMAX with just a Tune? From what I've seen stock internals are only good till about 500hp to the wheels. If those two morons on "two guys garage" can do DMAX injectors, anyone who can turn a wrench can do them.


Some shops have a weird way of coming up with HP numbers.You are correct. 500HP at the wheels is all a stock duramax will handle for any period of time.


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Im waiting to hear back on a 2001 chevy 2500HD ecsb DURAMAX with new injectors and tires, little surface rust on the rockers, 235,000 miles. he was advertising at 9500, told me 9000, i offered 8600.I know its only 400 bucks but thats where i need to be payment wise. I was hesitant due to the miles, but in reality, 235,000 isnt bad with brand new injectors Thumbs Up


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

If you need financing on a $9000 truck you should really be buying a gasser!


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Triple L;1461585 said:


> If you need financing on a $9000 truck you should really be buying a gasser!


Exactly what I was thinking.


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Why? If the diesel requires less maintenance and gets better mpg than the gasser, wouldn't it be more budget friendly?

Payments are mostly to help build credit. at 21 years old, with an existing truck payment, a 79 camaro z28, buying a house, and wife in college, we havent exactly had the best opportunity to save cash. 

Also, question about the duramax injector issue. What exactly is it that goes bad? because IIRC, when I worked on the one, it was the injector issue, but it seems like we just replaced some seals or o rings, and reused the old injectors?


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

And then when your without a truck for a few months cause you can't afford a new cp3, maybe injectors, even silly stuff like a starter isn't cheap...

Keep in mind 10 liter oil changes and $90 fuel filters at 15,000 miles if you want to keep those injectors running good


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Which is why i still have my car, and probably my current truck. Im not too worried about that.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Then knock yourself out! What's to go wrong with a gas other then the fuel pump? Who do you think your kidding about building credit... That old truck payment and mortage and credit cards is your credit... IMO you should wait till you can buy something cash...


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Then i wont get a truck. Because my current one needs a motor. So buying a new truck will get me the truck i wanted to get in the first place, and give me time to get the other one back on the road


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

7d9_z28;1459562 said:


> ... Im a certified mechanic...


Certified by who?


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

The State of Michigan Thumbs Up

I had to be certified and tested, before I could work in a shop. With an ASE Master Tech boss/owner, and a 30+ year mechanic. I outlasted 3 other people coming and going, one went to UTI, one went to Wyotech, and one was already ASE when he started. I was the only one who didn't screw everything up, I was left in control of the shop by myself on several occasions, at the age of 18. Working on cars and dealing with customers.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

The State of Michigan has a certification for auto repair mechanics?


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Yes, they do testing at the secretary of state (dmv)


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

7d9_z28;1461939 said:


> Then i wont get a truck. Because my current one needs a motor. So buying a new truck will get me the truck i wanted to get in the first place, and give me time to get the other one back on the road


Try not to take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you take credit out for unreliable purchases. You already have a truck payment, but the truck needs an engine, so you are looking to take out another loan on another truck with nearly 300k miles on it until you can get your other truck back on the road.

At 21 I didn't have a credit card, but I was still working, paying my way through college with the mindset of "if I can't afford it with cash, then I CAN'T AFFORD IT"


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Unreliable? As in, a truck that was great to me with no troubles until a rod bearing spun at 184,000 miles? I didnt think that was unreliable, I thought that was part of owning a vehicle. they all break. as many will point out, the "nearly 300,000 miles" as you put it (mind you, it was only 235,000) were on a DURAMAX which shows an average life between 350,000 and 700,000 miles. and its not "until" my other truck can be fixed, its "also" my other truck will be fixed. 

regardless, found a great deal on an 8.1 truck with 110,000 miles (nearly 200,000??? ) and I will probably be doing that deal this weekend. 

Thank you to those of you who were on topic and gave advice about the trucks in question! Thumbs UpThumbs Up


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

7d9_z28;1462633 said:


> Unreliable? As in, a truck that was great to me with no troubles until a rod bearing spun at 184,000 miles? I didnt think that was unreliable, I thought that was part of owning a vehicle. they all break. as many will point out, the "nearly 300,000 miles" as you put it (mind you, it was only 235,000) were on a DURAMAX which shows an average life between 350,000 and 700,000 miles. and its not "until" my other truck can be fixed, its "also" my other truck will be fixed.
> 
> regardless, found a great deal on an 8.1 truck with 110,000 miles (nearly 200,000??? ) and I will probably be doing that deal this weekend.
> 
> Thank you to those of you who were on topic and gave advice about the trucks in question! Thumbs UpThumbs Up


LOL - my point is simply, you have a loan on a truck with 184k miles on it. Yes I understand a DMax can go to 350k-700k miles but the rest of the truck will have issues Sorry if you didn't like my advise but it is sound advice - I've worked in a loan department for mortgages & auto loans - people who are 21 will get higher rates to begin with (high risk), second you are looking at older vehicles (higher risk), third those older vehicles have high mileage (over 100k = highest risk to regain money if you can't repay your note), all of this combined means you'll be paying out the a*s in interest on a vehicle that truly isn't worth it at the end of the day ( Simply put - you'll take out a $9k loan and end up paying the bank $20k for that truck when all is said and done, then add in your maintenance/repairs on top of that).

Hence why I/and others said buy it outright.


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Im taking out a 6000 loan, and interest will total 481. Rate is only 5%.


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Im taking out a 6000 loan, and interest will total 481. Rate is only 5%.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

wow this thread took a sharp turn


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Philbilly2;1463257 said:


> wow this thread took a sharp turn


I know, right? 

Im buying an 02 ECSB 2500HD 8.1/allison with 110,000 for $6000 today. Guy is driving across the state to bring it to me (which will prove it can handle a 3 hour drive at least!) Thumbs Up

Thanks again for the help guys. :salute:


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## 70monte (Feb 5, 2008)

Don't listen to the people who say you should pay cash for a $9,000 purchase. Most people that I know and work with cannot fork out $9,000 in cash or even the $6,000 you are buying the truck for. I financed the $8,750 I paid for my 98 K3500 and the $8,500 I paid for my 2004 Monte Carlo SS. Only you know your financial situation and with the currently low finance rates, you won't be paying much in interest.

Heck, I'm 45, make almost $70,000 a year, only owe around $13,000 in total debt including my house, truck and car, no credit card debt, and am single, divorced and paying quite a bit in child support and I don't have $9,000 or $6,000 in cash to buy anything so don't feel bad if you have to finance something. Those that can pay that much in cash, I applaud them, but everyone's financial situation is different and you have to do what you have to do.

As for the truck you are buying, it sounds like a good deal and a great engine/tranny combo that should last you quite a few more miles and years.

Wayne


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

Yeah not sure why some people think they know other peoples situations. 

I passed on the 8.1l, still waiting to hear back on the Duramax I liked at first. Helped the guy find his new truck so now I'm just waiting. 

A CP3 pump may be expensive, but my reliable current truck needs a whole motor now. which would you rather replace? Thumbs Up

Thanks again for the help everyone


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry if it sounded that way, I don't see a problem in financing $9k for a vehicle. I was merely commenting in on the fact you are financing a truck that needs an engine and are looking to finance another high mileage vehicle which is once again likely to give you problems. Best of luck on your purchase- maybe consider a small loan to fix your current truck or 0% interest credit card, then sell that truck to pay off what you can and start again with a lower mileage, better condition truck.


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm already fixing my current truck, and can pay off the loan anytime. I already have my situation figured out. Just started a thread to compare trucks, not talk about my personal financial situation.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Then get a duramax. More power, better mpgs, and much better resale


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

plowguy43;1466826 said:


> Then get a duramax. More power, better mpgs, and much better resale


Thank you!


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

plowguy43;1466826 said:


> Then get a duramax. More power, better mpgs, and much better resale


Sale typically only works for the first or second owner... He's paying more for it now so no he's not keeping any resale value on a truck thats more less fully depreciated with 300,000 miles...


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

Something nobody brought up yet, is if you are looking at a Dmax with 250K miles for the same money as an 8.1 with 150K what happens with the Allison goes out in the Dmax and you have a $2500 rebuild if you do it yourself or $5-6K to have it done? Now the 8.1 just got a lot more favorable. Why not do a 6.0? You will get the same mileage as the 8.1 when loaded but you'll get a little better empty, just a thought


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

I do not want a 6.0. personal opinion. and the 8.1 has an Allison tranny, so, I don't see your point there. 

not worried a ton about mpg. 

duramax has 235,000 miles brand new injectors and some other work, clean.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

plowguy43;1466826 said:


> Then get a duramax. More power, better mpgs, and much better resale


EXACTLY.Nothing like the sweet smell of diesel exhaust smell when you're backing up while plowing with the window cracked a tad and knowing you have a fantastic drivetrain at your disposal.


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## 70monte (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm personally not a fan of diesels, especially high mileage ones for a variety of reasons. Everyone that I know that own's a diesel that has had to have any type of repairs done, paid way more in parts and labor than someone with a gas rig. Yes, diesel engines will usually outlast a gas engine but all of the external parts such as injectors, etc. may not. The truck you are looking at has had the injectors done but there are a ton of other electrical and wear items on that engine that could be coming to the end of their useful life and will probably cost more than on a comparable gas engine. 

The bottom line is buy what you like and can afford and do the research that can point you toward the trouble spots of the vehicle you are thinking of buying and see if it has already been addressed such as the injector replacement on the truck you are thinking of buying.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1466916 said:


> Something nobody brought up yet, is if you are looking at a Dmax with 250K miles for the same money as an 8.1 with 150K what happens with the Allison goes out in the Dmax and you have a $2500 rebuild if you do it yourself or $5-6K to have it done? Now the 8.1 just got a lot more favorable. Why not do a 6.0? You will get the same mileage as the 8.1 when loaded but you'll get a little better empty, just a thought


A 4L80E in a 6.0 with 150K is a ticking time bomb. An Allison with 250K is just getting broke in.

As stated above, Dmax and the 8.1 both have the Allison.


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## 7d9_z28 (Dec 3, 2010)

The guy with the Duramax finally got his new truck, and contacted me last night. Hopefully we can work something out. $8500 for a clean Duramax 4x4 ecsb LT with 235,000 miles and BRAND NEW injectors??? I'm game.


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## Sydenstricker Landscaping (Dec 17, 2006)

Philbilly2;1468032 said:


> A 4L80E in a 6.0 with 150K is a ticking time bomb. An Allison with 250K is just getting broke in.
> 
> As stated above, Dmax and the 8.1 both have the Allison.


I got 201k on a 6.0 with the 4l80e and there is no ticking time bomb. Keep up with routine maintenance and it is a sound combination


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

7d9_z28;1468043 said:


> The guy with the Duramax finally got his new truck, and contacted me last night. Hopefully we can work something out. $8500 for a clean Duramax 4x4 ecsb LT with 235,000 miles and BRAND NEW injectors??? I'm game.


Just had a 2006 DMax 3500 with a rack body show up at work that we are selling off for our leasing division. Purr's like a kitten. Good luck, that sounds like a nice deal on that truck.


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