# What do you guys do?



## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Alright, I am starting to sit down and look at snow contracts and I have a problem. I look at my accounts, and how long it took me to plow them, then I look at under ideal conditions what it should take to do them, ( start at 2 am and finish by 9am). I am missing out on 7 plowable hours! How do you guys set up your routes??? I would like to add some new accounts, but am affraid that it will quit snowing at 4am and I will be left bent over  . The thing is I know what I am doing, and how to do it, but dont want to over book myself. I am getting ready to buy a skid loader for snow removal and just want to figure my route before I do.


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

are you talking commercial or residential? commercial i assume


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Sorry, commerical.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

You need to be flexible with your route. Just find out what time the employees start coming in not when they open. For ex. if one place needs to be done by 7 and another by 9 you may have to drive by the one and come back later to the other one. Most places don't care how early they are plowed out. As long as I'm done 15mins before they get there they're happy. Or if you have to, plow out the employee area and were they have to walk to get in and finish later.If you want regular hours you may have to get a job at Micky D's!


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Ok I think I had one too many brews when I typed that  I guess what I am trying to ask is under perfect conditions I can plow an additional 7 hours, but we all know that never happens. How do you guys know when you have too many accounts to handle? I have two trucks and usually only run one unless it gets to be a big snow then we run both. Like I said if it only snows 1.5" and stops at the right time it's a cake walk. Now does that make sense? 


Hey Grandview, I think I would still plow snow even if it didn't pay anything. xysport


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

I have my route set up before it even snows. If you need to, drive each lot like you were plowing it and figure out a rough time line for each. I start with the early ones to open and work down from there. It takes some experience to try to get it close but varies with every snow.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Ok let me try this again. I know how long it takes to plow every place I have, and I have the route figured out as best as possible. What I am asking is..... do you guys figure on best case scenario (ex. no prolbems with equiptment, snow stops when it should, here it is usually arount 1 am., and so on) or do you guys play it safe leaveing one truck with a partial route, just in case? I have close to 30 commerical accounts, a few churches, and some apartments, apartments dont want done untill after nine xysport . I figured my hours and the pay and it comes out to roughly $175 an hour plowing, so I want to take advantage of the secound truck as much as possible.

I hope that makes sence. Thanks


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## salopez (Apr 11, 2004)

I dont have time lines in my contracts and if a customer requires them I walk. They are nothing but problems. Example...lot must be cleared by 9am....What do you do if it starts snowing at 7 and doesnt stop till noon? I also work with a response time...And depending on who wants what level of response time, I adjust my guys accordingly.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Big difference between Ohio and Buffalo. Inch and a half we roll over in bed.
if we get a big storm over night (12+) it might take a couple hours longer.
if your expecting a lot of snow you should plow with the snow. 
I myself stay at 90% full in case of problems.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Everyone does things differently. I plow several different banks and they all open at 8-9am and my policy with all of them is that the parking lots and sidewalks will be done by the time you open your doors...if it continues to snow after I've already cleaned everything up I go do it again after it's done snowing and they get billed x2. It may have been 1 storm but I plowed twice. No one has fired me yet for doing things that way.

.02


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## bigearl (Jun 11, 2007)

I have had to plow some of my account 2-3 times during the winter especially if a lake effect band gets set up? As far as overbooking yourself I thinks it's what you can personally handle, I know some days are different than others.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

I think you would have to plan your route with the best case scenario. But, if god forbid something does happen i would have a back up plan. If you are doing 30 lots with one truck, why don't you pick up lets say 10 more? One truck does 20 and the other truck does 20. Now if your truck is going to break down, it is most likely not going to break down before the first lot. Maybe you will get lets say 5 lots out of that truck before it breaks down. Do you think the other truck can pick up the slack ( the additional 5 lots)? I only have one truck :crying: , i know before the snow hits the ground that i have a back up plan if something does happen I am covered. I have a friend that has saved my ass a few times. Do you apply salt for your accounts? If you do why don't you use just the one truck to do that. You would go to one lot to plow, then the salt truck will come. You can leave and go to the next one. That saves alot of time. I hope this gave you an idea. Rich


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Wow 30 commercials with one truck ! Must be low profile accounts.
Around these parts you have to put your money were your mouth is. Any quality decent account requires contracts with specified opening times. If it snows up to 3" you have up to 5 hours to clear the lot by 7am period ! Only way you going to get a pass on that here is 10" plus then its safe and reasonable, you don't have 3 days to clear the lots. You cant book 30 accounts for one truck here, just not going to fly. How big are these 30 lots ? Do these lots take 10 minutes each with drive time ? We figure 5 hours per storm per truck INCLUDING drive time. 
I gave up all the crap accounts I had that didn't require time dead lines, they all sucked, took for ever to pay, and were the first to call *****ing. I used to spend 20 hours ( 10 accounts, all took an hour min. plus drive time. The biggest took around 5 )in the truck for a 3" storm. It beat the crap out of me, and the truck. I make more money, ( more events, plus salt is cake) Now we do 5 hours for 3" per truck. All accounts are zero tolerance, full salt. It has worked. 
If you want to go to the next level you have to guarantee your work. Trying to cram as many accounts as you can is back wards thinking. Provide the BEST service, for a fair price, and don't sweat needing to add 10 more hours to your route. You wont expand with a reputation that ya get there when ya get there. Plus when the big one's hit you dont fall on your ass and look like a fool for taking on the extra 10 accounts per truck.

Edit: I should add we do banks, court houses, corporate owned gas stations, and business condo's


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

If you have 2 rigs why keep one still or in reserve we run all trucks from the get go. Sometimes you have to pay for down time for the drivers but your finished early and ready for the next round. I cant tell you how many times we did not need all the drivers and hand crews but when the big one hits we were out in force. As for the time thing in a perfect storm it starts at 6pm and over at 1am (never happens). I have our rigs run thru the route to open paths to the location Fire lanes and access, if the timing of the storm is close to the opening of the location we give them access and return as many times as needed thru the storm to stay open and return after closing to clean up, unless they need full service then we place one rig to just stay there and rack up hours. Plowing is a PITA but you need plenty of equipment to service your props. Don't plan on the perfect storm plan on the worse storm and go from there...


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Thanks for all the replys guys! I have a really good route, on a 2" snow I can plow all the commerical accounts by myself in less than 7 hours. I have several banks, gas stations, restraunts, small stores and such. I honestly have accounts that take 5 min to plow, that pay $60 per plow. And it's not like these places are scattered either. within 2 miles of each other I have, 1 @ 45 , 1 @ 60 , 1 @ 35 , 1 @ 45 . It takes me less than 40 mins including travel time. All but a few accounts get salt, and everybody pays on time! Last year I got rid of a few slow payers and pissy customers, so I have a great route. I have 1 big account that can take me a couple hours to plow if we get a 4" snow, but their normal trigger is 1" and they love the salt. My secound truck is the salt truck so it usually only goes out to salt or to help with a big event. I have a guy that doesn't plow for himself but has a truck and plow and offers to help me if we get behind, so I guess I got that covered. For you guys that run a few trucks do you leave the salt truck for nothing but salting or do you line it up with a few accounts to plow then have it salt. The distance between my furtherst 2 accounts is less than 20 miles so nothing is spread out.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Do you run bulk ? If you have enough work for one truck to just salt let em stay that way.
Is your sub dependable ? I would take on more work, utilize the sub, and let the salt truck just salt everything then. Do you salt with your main truck ? What is your back up salt plan if you dont ?

If you dont have enough work for just salt for one truck (30 accounts is alot, depending on what you drop normally. Thats any were from 3 to 6 tons of salt for small accounts.) I would either A) tag team the accounts or B) set up both trucks to salt. We do A) normally and spin a truck off when needed, or while one is salting the "plow" truck heads to the next site.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Hey T man, thanks for your help. My sub works another job, so no I cant use him everyday. I run bulk salt, I don't have enough work to just salt with one truck, it only takes a couple hours, and I only drop about 3 tons per occurance. My main truck is for plowing, the secoundary truck is for helping plow and salt I have a V box on the main truck, and a tailgate on the other. If somthing goes wrong I have enough bagged salt to do everything.


I guess the trouble is, My salt truck is a big stake bed, with a 9'2" boss, almost too big to do small lots.

I am thinking now about buying another truck, so I have 2 full time plow trucks, and a full time salt truck.

What do you think?


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

If you have the capital, and "paying work" for another purchase not a bad option. Can you run the truck off season and make money with it ?
Other wise I would utilize what you have and crank out more production from what you have in place. Possibly a better plow for truck #2, Blizzard PP lol (love-em). What about a back blade ? Im leaning towards one my self for the banks, and gas station car wash's.
You would be amazed at what 2 trucks can knock out, as long as the lots are big enough for 2 trucks. The pickup does the cut in and back blade work, the big truck does the bulk moving and salt. I send my plow truck off while I salt and he cleans out drive ups and any tight stuff. Then I show up with the PP and move alot of snow quickly. It is a good system for us. Daytime storms I usually split us up for more of a "presence" on the sites. Then you have trucks on sites just clearing out threw ways.
Keep your sub in your back pocket and throw him some work so he hangs around. Then you can depend on him if ya need help.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Hey thanks again for the advise T man. Don't mind me but what is a PP:waving: , no pun intended :waving : 
I have the cash and am looking at the possibilities. (sp)
Thanks


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## salopez (Apr 11, 2004)

He is speaking of a power plow by Blizzard that has expanding wings.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Bossman 92;394657 said:


> Hey thanks again for the advise T man. Don't mind me but what is a PP:waving: , no pun intended :waving :
> I have the cash and am looking at the possibilities. (sp)
> Thanks


Yes It is a Blizzard Power Plow, I would avoid the red and yellow versions this up coming season. Not much testing on them yet, plus you can see many design flaws. Hopefully they will get the bugs out and maybe next year it will be a viable option. The way Douglas Dynamics droped the ball on the Tornado last year I wouldnt put much faith in there "New" stuff. Especially when your just running a couple trucks, and cant afford to have alot of issues. Stay with the proven products.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Hey thanks again guys. I sat down a figured that I am loosing a lot of time with my salt truck. I mean it's hard to have that truck plow much because he needs to be getting salt and it's a haul to the salt place. I am looking at adding another truck or skid steer, so then I have 2 full time plows and a full time salt truck. With another truck I could add quite a few accounts. Sound right to you guys?


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Thats a tuff call Boss man, IMO I dont think 2 plow trucks would justify a dedicated salt truck. I would look into a more localized salt supply myself, so your not wasting fuel and time driving for bulk. Work a deal with someone local, even if you pay $100 a ton loaded, your still going to be way ahead of the game if your making 175 an hour per truck. 
Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency- the more you get done in your 5 hour (or whatever your window is) the higher your gross can be. Tight route, including salt supply, puts more time in the lots making money.
my 2 cents


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

THe closest place to deal with bulk salt is almost an hour away! If I had a skid steer with a pusher I could load myown bulk salt and still add another plow to the operation. Also in the off season I could use the skid instead of renting.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Find a large contracter who is close to you  Work out a deal, pay up front or what ever you need to make it work. If you do 4 tons or so per event that is probally going to be an extra 100 tons he can commit too and lower his rate. Show up when they are loading trucks and get in line with there stuff. 

I get my salt from a large contractor myself. They like me so I dont pay much more then they pay. BUT I would still pay 100 a ton if they asked for it. I load myself as the machine is allways running at there salt bin. They know I take 2 tons per load, usually 2 trips per event unless its just light frost or a sunday were I can count on the sun to let the salt do its job.
We have local guys to that supply bulk, but there hours suck for ZERO tolerence work. It just wouldnt work for me as they wont open unless its iceing, snowing or week days.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Yea man I know what you are saying. The thing is I have the only V box spreader in town!

Everybody here runs tailgate spreaders, and straight meyer plows.  \

If I do nothing else, I am going to buy an older skid and use it for salt. It would save me thousands a year, not to mention I could add a few more accounts.

You mentioned that you have some pretty big places, in your opinion are walmarts and home depots worth screwing with? 

Thanks Bossman


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

I dont handle anything that big, The court house is 5.5 acres of combined pavement. The one bank I do is about 3.5 acres of pavement. Those are my biggest now. One of They old apartment complexs I did was about 6.5 acres of pavement. Most of my sites are around an acre of pavement to an 1.5 acres. Still plenty of room for 2 trucks to bust em out.
I dont know their policys at Wally World or Homey Cheaps, I think they are usually low bid.
Allthough I aim for higher rates $175 per billed hour wont happen here for a truck. We still have guys plowing lots for $75 an hour for a pickup here, Wally world will probally be in that range. Then you end up Ghosting (billing for a ghost truck) or just piling up the hours. I wont stoop to that level. I aim for a fair hourly rate, and bid the job by the job, its x to plow up to 3", and x to salt it. No ton prices or hourly rates, to much BS and the salt ton thing is a joke too.

If you have Wally world around there must be somebody around with a bulk pile.
If you have room for your own pile, and a machine then I would go that route in a heartbeat.
Its stricked as heck around here about salt piles, and running machines at night in residential neighborhoods. Thats why I dont have my own. if I was out in farm country I would have a pile with a small "dependable" machine to load with. If things work out this season as planed we may keep salt in a shipping container on one site. I will lease a skid loader to plow the lot and load salt then.
If not I will get mine from the same source as last year.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Talk about plowing cheap, I talked to a guy last year that went out of bussiness, go figure, he told me what they were charging to do a lot. He said they charged $25 an hour, but they ran 3 trucks, so they were really making $75 an hour! I agree with you, I charge per plow, and per salt. Trying to do it any other way is a waste. Around here guys charge a low hourly rate then lie on their hours, same with salt. I can plow much faster than my competition, better / larger equiptment, so why should I be penalized by charging a lower rate.

Belive it or not, they salt wally world by the bag! Looks like they salt the entrances and main isles and leave everything else. 

Bossman


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