# Salt Brine



## Wacker57 (Jan 2, 2018)

Please let me know if my figures are wrong. I am new and looking into pretreating and post treating. So here we go.

Good clean Salt $65 a ton for a 23 percent solution would make 870 gallons for a cost of 7.5 cents per gallon for BRINE
@80/20 

95 percent pure calcium chloride bags. 50 pound bag $22. 2 1/2 pounds per gallon for the proper solution would equal $1.06 per gallon.

If mixed at a ratio of 80/20 comes out to 11.31 cents per gallon

At a spray rate of 80 gallons per acre comes out to $9.05 per acre

Are these figures correct? What is the freezing temp of mix


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## GreenscapeInc (Sep 4, 2012)

Everything sounds right except the 80 gallons per acre rate, seems high we are usually applying in the 40-60 gallon rate


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

GreenscapeInc said:


> Everything sounds right except the 80 gallons per acre rate, seems high we are usually applying in the 40-60 gallon rate


So you're saying somewhere between 92-138 pounds of salt is treating 43,560 sq ft???


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## GreenscapeInc (Sep 4, 2012)

For pretreat we are applying at 40 Gallons per acre, without calcium with good results, postreat 60 gallons per acre. The Snow ex recommendations started in the 25-30 range, we found 40 has produced better results.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

I come up with 138lbs per acre at 60 gallons....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I come up with 138lbs per acre at 60 gallons....


Crap.......


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I come up with 138lbs per acre at 60 gallons....


So did I.


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## 86 CJ (Jan 11, 2010)

GreenscapeInc said:


> For pretreat we are applying at 40 Gallons per acre, without calcium with good results, postreat 60 gallons per acre. The Snow ex recommendations started in the 25-30 range, we found 40 has produced better results.


We are at closer to 65g/acre pre-treating and 90-100 post treating in MD with our higher temp storms. I still don't see how some of these guys(local)are just using regular 23.5 salt brine for pre-treating and getting good results(county sprays it and it lasts like 10 min on the roads. We use a product blended in to get much more residual and its a BIG difference.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Your prices are a little off on the Calcium, closer to $1.60 per gallon

Per Occidental, the people that make Peladow, using Peladow Premir to get 100 gallons at 30% - it's 86.xx gallons of water and 360# of Peladow

I don't see how you can get liquid to work at those rates, baffles me.

80 gallon per acre is like 1.8 gallon per 1000

Sidewalk salt we use, Lesco melt is supposed to be 50# per 1800sqft, and I know we use it higher than that, really need to measure - ok, for my own good I just measured a place we put down two bags at very consistantly and eye in the sky method says 3000 sq ft.

I've heard/read that 2 gallons of Na Brine or 80/20 NA/Ca will equal one bag sidewalk salt

So, on sidewalks, using Lesco#'s it's 1.11 gallon per 1000 or our rates it's 1.33/1000

Well, ****, wow, guess we'll see if this sidewalk stuff works.......


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## 86 CJ (Jan 11, 2010)

When we were blending calcium last year i believe we were close to 1000lbs Paladow Mixed into 230g/water to get to 32% making 275g tote.

We tell people to estimate 1g of our liquid blend to 1000-1200sf sidewalk depending on pre or post treating and how well they clear sidewalks first.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Pencils or fans for sidewalks? 

Did a bit in our parking lot last night, 80/20, 28 degrees though, wouldn't think you'd need the 20. 

Just under a thick inch, not fresh snow, was wet and it was thick - all that burned thru was pencil lines, walk salt did the same thing, spotted. Where the liquid crossed the salt, it did completely burn thru suprisingly.

Plowed a make believe walkway with the Rator, sprayed that and it was completely wet within 20 minutes. The parking lot is really course too, no where near what a sidewalk is. That's at a bit more than 1 per 1000, more like 1.2


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## 86 CJ (Jan 11, 2010)

I would have had my guys clear walks first then Fan spray for even de-icing. You need to get enough product down to be effective with liquids. Most contractors around her put so much Granular Ice melt down that I laugh because you can slip and fall with the amount they are using. There is nothing like Granular Ice melt on sidewalks for 4 days after a storm... I am sure the Store Managers love it...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Rain drop nozzles are the bestest for walks...


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## 86 CJ (Jan 11, 2010)

I second that unless you are running sprayer hose setup off your truck...


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So you're saying somewhere between 92-138 pounds of salt is treating 43,560 sq ft???


That has to be for a pre wet system on a spreader.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

We have been tweaking our brine for the last year and still seems hit or miss. Need to dial in the numbers as i can put down 500g on a 6 acre site and salt truck driver has to pull in and let it hum. He can see my paths and its working, sometimes fast other times slow ... and i know the temp/moisture level makes a big dif but my field results are all over the place. Going to spike the brine a bit with some cal brine, and also go up just over 100g an acre and see if that gives me more consistent results. One storm i am hours ahead of the neighbouring properties on seeing wet pavement, next time call in the rock truck to play catch up. Tough learning curve for us.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Wacker57 said:


> Please let me know if my figures are wrong. I am new and looking into pretreating and post treating. So here we go.
> 
> Good clean Salt $65 a ton for a 23 percent solution would make 870 gallons for a cost of 7.5 cents per gallon for BRINE
> @80/20
> ...


That math, up here, with our prices gives me just a touch over $1 per gallon (making an 80/20 blend)
Figure 100 gallons per acre (up here) and that's $100 per acre (not figuring in your cost to actually apply the product)

But yea, thats how I got my prices...just different variables for me.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So you're saying somewhere between 92-138 pounds of salt is treating 43,560 sq ft???


Some people are claiming those are "proper" rates to apply at...
We used that info the first year liquids were used up here, because thats what the "experts" said... doesn't work here (obviously) but I figured it's being done somewhere.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

86 CJ said:


> We are at closer to 65g/acre pre-treating and 90-100 post treating in MD with our higher temp storms. I still don't see how some of these guys(local)are just using regular 23.5 salt brine for pre-treating and getting good results(county sprays it and it lasts like 10 min on the roads. We use a product blended in to get much more residual and its a BIG difference.


what product are you blending?


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## 86 CJ (Jan 11, 2010)

We Blend in IBG, Calcium and a new product (Can't Disclose local) now that we have had good success using this season. We have tried all 3 and they work a bit different of each other. Calcium has almost no residual so we only use that when we need it for post treating to burn off anything left on lots after plowing. The other two we use at 10-20% for Pre-treating depending on Temps and moisture of storm. We don't use straight brine like most others starting liquids around here, just don't see great results.


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## acswaupaca1 (Jun 5, 2017)

GreenscapeInc said:


> Everything sounds right except the 80 gallons per acre rate, seems high we are usually applying in the 40-60 gallon rate


80 to 110 gallons per acre for post treatment with no pre-treat is what I'm hearing.


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## 86 CJ (Jan 11, 2010)

acswaupaca1 said:


> 80 to 110 gallons per acre for post treatment with no pre-treat is what I'm hearing.


That is correct right there


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## Brad3403 (Sep 8, 2008)

86 CJ said:


> When we were blending calcium last year i believe we were close to 1000lbs Paladow Mixed into 230g/water to get to 32% making 275g tote.


Are these numbers correct? I thought it was closer to 650lbs of calcium flake.


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