# Gallon per lane mile for CaCl?



## mike_dmt (Oct 14, 2008)

A local liquid de-ice supllier here switched to CaCl this year. They gave me an app rate of 30-40 gallons per lane mile, 16' wide.. Thats 84480 sq. ft, or just under 2 acres.. Does this sound right? Arent most of you putting down around 40 galls PER acre for a pre wet treatment?

Also said the freezing point is around -26f..


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## mike_dmt (Oct 14, 2008)

Really? No one?


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## SnowMelt2006 (Nov 27, 2006)

APPLICATION
• Prewetting: apply at spreader outlet at a rate of 1.25 gallons per 100 lbs of solid deicer (130g/kg)
• Deicing:
Commercial = 1-3 gallons/1000ft2 (50-150 g/m2) Highway = 60-180 gallons/lane mile (50-150g/m2)
• Anti-icing:
Commercial = 0.5 gallons/1000ft2 (25-50 g/m2) Highway = 25-60 gallons/lane mile (25-50g/m2)
• Re-apply when new snow/ice accumulation shows first tendency to bond
• Plow promptly to reduce fluid dilution


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

mike_dmt;800444 said:


> A local liquid de-ice supllier here switched to CaCl this year. They gave me an app rate of 30-40 gallons per lane mile, 16' wide.. Thats 84480 sq. ft, or just under 2 acres.. Does this sound right? Arent most of you putting down around 40 galls PER acre for a pre wet treatment?
> 
> Also said the freezing point is around -26f..


If you figure the lane at 10' width you are a lot closer to an acre per lane.


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## mike_dmt (Oct 14, 2008)

Gotcha. Are there any advantages to CaCl over MagCl besides the freeze point?


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## studebaker48 (Sep 4, 2009)

Have you tried looking at www.magicsalt.info. This de-icer works better than anyting we have ever used pre treat 30 gallons per 50,000 sq ft. Take a look.ussmileyflag


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## ChlorideGuy (Nov 24, 2008)

?????? 30 gal. acre wow find that hard to belive.


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## kpmsnow (Sep 18, 2009)

Our ICE-BAN application rate is 35-37 gal an acre for pre application


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## ChlorideGuy (Nov 24, 2008)

Not bustin balls over here but it just seems a little light


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ChlorideGuy;848821 said:


> Not bustin balls over here but it just seems a little light


It's because it's MAGIC, Mike.

Besides, when it's as spendy as Magic, you want to go light.


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## ChlorideGuy (Nov 24, 2008)

LOL your right Mark. still think for the money ours is better (thats just my opt. but im kinda partial) lol


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## kpmsnow (Sep 18, 2009)

Light, the application rate is not light it's efficient. It is the right amount of product to do the job it is needed to do. I don't use brine so I don't know application rate on that. As far as it being "magic" it can be called what ever you want, it works, I use it, it has made me good money, it has expanded my business, and always given great results. I would love to sit down and compare notes with a contractor who uses brine and just see exactly how my ICE-BAN system compares to a well brine system. Apples to apples I would truly be curious to compare.


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## ChlorideGuy (Nov 24, 2008)

kpmsnow give us a ring 1 877 34Brine Thanks Mike


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## mike_dmt (Oct 14, 2008)

ChlorideGuy;848804 said:


> ?????? 30 gal. acre wow find that hard to belive.


Whats the app rate for your product, per acre?


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## ChlorideGuy (Nov 24, 2008)

Depends on what your trying to do anti-ice/snow on parking lot around 50 or 60 De-icing 100 125 per acre, what you have to understand is that all liquids work better as a pre-treat. With that being said if your going to use on road ways we do not advise to use more that 30-40 gal lane mile. Any time you put a liquid down the surface of the road will become slicker than dry pavement. Even plane water increses the chance of skidding. There are no tests for anti skidding with our product. There for put the min. amount of product down first and re-apply if needed.


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## EliteSnow&Ice (Sep 30, 2008)

kpmsnow;848889 said:


> I would love to sit down and compare notes with a contractor who uses brine and just see exactly how my ICE-BAN system compares to a well brine system. Apples to apples I would truly be curious to compare.


Being new to liquids what kinda notes should I be taking so I can campare other products? My local supplier sold me on a certain product but I willing to try something else.


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## mike_dmt (Oct 14, 2008)

Interesting, the app rate for the product line I can lay my hands on is recommended at 35-40 for deicing. And by that I mean a mostly clear lot, and just laying down product to keep the water from freezing. The app rate for pretreating and post plowing varies of course. But the guys I'm talking to that have experience with it say no more than 55-60 gpa in those situations. I'm not trying to put one product over another, to be sure. I'm just interested in what else is available.


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## kpmsnow (Sep 18, 2009)

EliteSnow&Ice;860620 said:


> Being new to liquids what kinda notes should I be taking so I can campare other products? My local supplier sold me on a certain product but I willing to try something else.


The better the notes the more you can fine tune your process. Ground temp, moisture level of the surface, time of app, time of snow arrival, wind speed, wind direction, air temp, solar presence during or after application, amount of accumulation, moisture level of accumulation, rate of accumulation, result observations before and after plowing if plowing was nesissary. Only you know how deep you feel you need to go. Hope this helps, I have more that we do if you are interested pm me


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## Born2Push (Nov 3, 2009)

kpmsnow;861337 said:


> The better the notes the more you can fine tune your process. Ground temp, moisture level of the surface, time of app, time of snow arrival, wind speed, wind direction, air temp, solar presence during or after application, amount of accumulation, moisture level of accumulation, rate of accumulation, result observations before and after plowing if plowing was nesissary. Only you know how deep you feel you need to go. Hope this helps, I have more that we do if you are interested pm me


kpm - i'm interested in how you programmatically capture all those data points for a particular site during the application process, especially the things like ground temp vs. air temp, moisture level of the surface and the snow, etc....


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## kpmsnow (Sep 18, 2009)

My self and 2 of my most trusted subs do all the primary spraying. All the notes are logged into palm pilots in a type of spread sheet format and downloaded onto my computer for referencing later. I outfitted our trucks with ground temp sensors and we also carry laser thermometers in the truck "just in case we get a crazy reading from the truck sensors", Unfortunately the moisture levels on the surface and of the snow accumulation is still more or less an observation. We break them down in 4 levels ranging from dry to heavily saturated. It's not perfect but it works for us. I am working with a mobile electronics company to develop a system that will do a lot of these thing automatically and translate the info into a "recommended" application rate. It will also do some other really cool things but i won't disclose them at this time. I hope to have a prototype of one in my truck yet this year to play with, but we'll see how that go's.


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## mike_dmt (Oct 14, 2008)

Wow, KPM, that sounds great in theory. But it seems like a ton of extra time and energy for something that has to be repeated on a regular basis. I would agree that if it was something done as a permanent or long lasting situation it would require that kind effort. But, it seems that everyones estimation is directly affected by the weather, which doesn't always cooperate. By saying that I mean, you have all of your calcs and conditions, run it through whatever program you have designed, only to have the weather flip on you and rain when you expect it to snow. Or vise-versa, snow when you didn't expect anything. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to drag your ideas over the coals, I just don't know if I see a huge benefit to so much extra legwork.


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## kpmsnow (Sep 18, 2009)

This is the last season we are going to go this in depth. The main focus behind taking all these notes is for me to be able to reference the current conditions before a storm and look back to my tables and make a quick informed judgment on the application rate that should be applied. I am trying to exchange some guess work for informed decisions. You are right it has been extra work but it has already started to pay off. I have already used the tables as an application guide last year. I applied about half of what I had thought I should "basing the decision on my table" and it came out great. All of my spraying is billed per application and as most of you know I use ICE-BAN, which costs a little more.By being able to spray up too half the product at times and get the same results. I have increased my margins,and I can get done quicker. Also for those of you familiar with ICE-BAn you know if you grossly over apply you can turn a safe surface into a dangerously slippery one. My tables help me to not over apply. What works for me may not work for everyone and may be a little obsessive but I like it. ussmileyflag


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## ChlorideGuy (Nov 24, 2008)

Great point KMPSNOW !


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

this table is based on road salt and liquids. I'm sure the theory stands although you may have to modify the base rate to work with what ever liquid you are using.

http://www.clrp.cornell.edu/techassistance/CALIBRATION CHART.pdf


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