# talk about overpricing!!!



## bigjeeping (Aug 15, 2005)

Just got my truck back from the dealership for a new ball joints install.

Anyway, after I dropped the truck off the service advisor called me and said they found that 2 of my 3 brake lights were out. He said they could fix this for $80. Once I got the truck back, the work sheet said the estimate was actually $100! I'm thinking that he saw 100 and knew it was way to high so he told me 80.

Well, I told him NO and just replaced the lights myself - didn't take more than FIVE MINUTES!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bigjoe871 (Feb 2, 2005)

Too many zeros for sure


----------



## starc (Nov 16, 2006)

Either you need to fix things yourself or have an awfully big wallet. I prefer to do all my own repairs and maintenance, save a **** load of money.


----------



## iakentdoz (Dec 20, 2005)

bigjeeping;335199 said:


> Just got my truck back from the dealership for a new ball joints install.
> 
> Anyway, after I dropped the truck off the service advisor called me and said they found that 2 of my 3 brake lights were out. He said they could fix this for $80. Once I got the truck back, the work sheet said the estimate was actually $100! I'm thinking that he saw 100 and knew it was way to high so he told me 80.
> 
> Well, I told him NO and just replaced the lights myself - didn't take more than FIVE MINUTES!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Must be a Lifetime Guarantee on the bulbs and some great bulbs at that.


----------



## bigjoe871 (Feb 2, 2005)

For $100 I know a guy that will come to your house and wash and wax the truck, replacing the bulbs would be free...LOL


----------



## frehawk (Jan 21, 2005)

You should have asked how much they charged to change the air in the tires


----------



## bigjeeping (Aug 15, 2005)

starc;335211 said:


> Either you need to fix things yourself or have an awfully big wallet. I prefer to do all my own repairs and maintenance, save a **** load of money.


The wallet is slim! I try to do as much on my own, but if I tried to tackle the ball joints I'd spend a week on them!


----------



## ECS (Nov 11, 2005)

He is just trying to bring the industry standards up.  
If he charged $5 would he be thought of as a lowballer?


----------



## DBL (Aug 27, 2005)

$100 to change bulbs good job not letting them take advantage of you


----------



## nevrnf (Oct 12, 2005)

That is a pretty realistic $ for the job. The dealer labor rate here is $110 hr. with a 1/2 hr min.
SO now on to flat rate estimating.
.5 hr diag to check the tail light operation. 
.2 to change each bulb.
3 bulbs @ $6.00 each
I dont agree with this but in the real world of dealer repair this is a realistic charge.
The difference here is IF you are ABLE to do it your self then you can save $$$
The repair industry prayes on the consumer who is unable to do rthe repairs himself.
This is part of the reason why i left the Automotive repair industry after nearly 30 years.


----------



## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Some people might also think that $35.00 is alot of money to plow a driveway that takes 2 minutes.


----------



## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

just take it to a auto parts store like Autozone, i think they change them for free. I always see them changing stuff like that.


----------



## bigjeeping (Aug 15, 2005)

nevrnf;335683 said:


> That is a pretty realistic $ for the job. The dealer labor rate here is $110 hr. with a 1/2 hr min.
> SO now on to flat rate estimating.
> .5 hr diag to check the tail light operation.
> .2 to change each bulb.
> ...


Not to say you're wrong, but here's some insight on the situation: The truck was already having over $1000 in repairs/maintenance performed on it during this particular visit, so that knocks out any "minimum pricing" The bulbs I purchased cost me a total of $4.00 and took me five minutes to change out - no diagnosis needed other than seeing that they didn't work! But I do agree that they are out to make money off of the customers who are unable to do this themselves... like an elderly widow, or a single mom. Wow, that's horrible.


----------



## starc (Nov 16, 2006)

Epic Lawn Care;335748 said:


> Some people might also think that $35.00 is alot of money to plow a driveway that takes 2 minutes.


I agree with that but, I figure if there to lazy to shovel it....it's worth 30 or 35 dollars. Might take me 2 minutes but it will take them a hour or so.


----------



## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

If you notice, the Guys at Auto Zone are changing bulbs for _healthy_ young females. Hummm?
I have a friend that's a Structural Engineer and Lebanese. He loves to fix stuff. His wife's Caravan's water pump went out. He's got 3 house jacks going on and had no extra time.
The shop doing the repair calls: Your serpentine belts bad, we will replace it for $100.
He says that's a $35 --> $50 part, they say that's their price to replace any belt.
You Moron's it's already off.
Like he says: Just cause I'm Fore-in, they tink I am Stupid.<-- in his best new guy in the country broken english


----------



## nevrnf (Oct 12, 2005)

Ok Bigjeeping here goes.

I was in the automotive repair industry for the last 30 years. It has bought a house, paid for things and supported a family.
It was my income of choice.
SO why is it everyone thinks a mechanic should discount his labor just because someone spent $$$$$ on other repairs.
When you go to the doctor and he runs blood tests. Does he discount it for 10 tests?
Does Home Depot give you free nails when you buy a bundle of 2x4's 
Then why is it I am expected to do this easy job for free just because you spent money here already??????
Sometimes there are special tool required to do the job. Who pays for them??? ME
When there is required schooling who pay for it???????? ME
So why is it i should give away my income just because????????
If you have the ability do perform the repair yourself then i applaud you.
If not then don't come on here ragging about the cost. 
SO we Pray on the weak and old????
How about the electricians and carpenter, Appliance repair people, Heating and air???
Are these people praying on the old and the weak?????????????
I know that is different. RIGHT These trades NEVER take advantage of consumers. RIGHT 

Ok i got it out now FLAME AWAY i got my suite on and my extinguisher ready


----------



## poncho62 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Probably wanted to charge you so much, to get back for the gouging he gets from the plow guy......................Sorry, couldn't resist.............:*.........


----------



## bigjeeping (Aug 15, 2005)

nevrnf;337875 said:


> Ok Bigjeeping here goes.
> 
> I was in the automotive repair industry for the last 30 years. It has bought a house, paid for things and supported a family.
> It was my income of choice.
> ...


Ok - I completely understand where you're coming from and that's why I paid $950 to have new ball joints installed. A ball-joint-job takes time, requires special tools, and requires skill. They quote each job by the hour, plus parts. If they get done quickly, they make a nice profit. No harm done.

Their hourly rate is $85/hour. They wanted $100 to replace two bulbs which took me 5 minutes and a few dollars. Tell me that ain't right!


----------



## nevrnf (Oct 12, 2005)

Have you checked a plumbers rate for uncloging a drain lately. How about a HVAC service call.
BTW you are luck to have a labor rate that low. The local dealers here are $110 -$125 hr
My buddie works at Mercedes $150hr


----------



## M&A Property Maintenance (Sep 29, 2006)

bigjeeping;338657 said:


> Ok - I completely understand where you're coming from and that's why I paid $950 to have new ball joints installed. A ball-joint-job takes time, requires special tools, and requires skill. They quote each job by the hour, plus parts. If they get done quickly, they make a nice profit. No harm done.
> 
> Their hourly rate is $85/hour. They wanted $100 to replace two bulbs which took me 5 minutes and a few dollars. Tell me that ain't right!


That is why you shouldn't take you truck to the "Stealership" and take it to a mechanic that you know and trust.


----------



## Rowski (Oct 24, 2005)

*Amen!!!*



nevrnf;337875 said:


> Ok Bigjeeping here goes.
> 
> I was in the automotive repair industry for the last 30 years. It has bought a house, paid for things and supported a family.
> It was my income of choice.
> ...


Seems like lately everyone think we are like antique dealers!:realmad: Price tag $50... will you take $40.

Seems like if people fuss long enough they get a price break.

I really like the term mentioned by someone... Stealerships!

Derek


----------



## tom718 (Nov 11, 2006)

nevrnf;338761 said:


> Have you checked a plumbers rate for uncloging a drain lately. How about a HVAC service call.
> BTW you are luck to have a labor rate that low. The local dealers here are $110 -$125 hr
> My buddie works at Mercedes $150hr


Well don't them trades come to you? Being In the electrical trade and owning my own business I've found it's good business going the extra mile to please the customer. If I came across a job that needed a light bulb replaced and they have already giving me $1000.00 I would differently do it for free and with a smile. The only one that lost out is the dealership because if someone wanted to charge me that much to replace a bulb, I would be sure to find a new dealership to do any other repairs. Not to mention he prob over paid for ball joint job to begin with.

To the blood sucking Dealers


----------



## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

nevrnf;335683 said:


> .5 hr diag to check the tail light operation.
> .2 to change each bulb.
> .


Huh?

Dude, if it take you 1/2 hour to see that 3 light bulbs are out, please do not work on my truck.


----------



## nevrnf (Oct 12, 2005)

Everyone is quick to rag about repair pricing. It is always the guy who can do the work himself that whines the most.
Like i said. If you are capable of doing the work yourself. God bless.

BUT when you fail dont come on here asking for help to diagnose your problem because your to cheap to pay a trained technician to repair your simple bulb problem.


----------



## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

nevrnf;340964 said:


> BUT when you fail dont come on here asking for help to diagnose your problem because your to cheap to pay a trained technician to repair your simple bulb problem.


Oh I agree 100%.

Just a quick question: Before someone becomes a trained technician; how long does it take to tell a bulb is out? 

Well ok two questions: How long is the class on bulbs being good or bad?


----------



## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

also have to realize that it takes lots of money to keep the dealerships going. i think some people don't realize this. some of these dealerships are multi million dollar facilities. i can remember back in the day when i didn't have a shop and only had one truck. i could do stuff for free and i didn't really cut into my $ too much. now i have to charge $70 to stick a wind blown shingle down. the days of a big business doing work for free are over, they have to charge what a book says to charge because some pencil pushing white collar worker knows what it takes to keep the business running profitably.


----------



## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Jay brown;340971 said:


> also have to realize that it takes lots of money to keep the dealerships going. i think some people don't realize this. some of these dealerships are multi million dollar facilities. i can remember back in the day when i didn't have a shop and only had one truck. i could do stuff for free and i didn't really cut into my $ too much. now i have to charge $70 to stick a wind blown shingle down. the days of a big business doing work for free are over, they have to charge what a book says to charge because some pencil pushing white collar worker knows what it takes to keep the business running profitably.


Agree you have to stay in business, but trying to justify $55 to tell someone that they have three light bulbs out is one way not to stay in business.


----------



## Ding (Nov 13, 2006)

No offense to anyone, but many trained technicians are not the brightest bulbs in the box.

The diagnostic procedures employed by vehicle manufacturers today are highly validated and refined. However they can also seem quite complex and cumbersome. Many trained technicians are simply following the official procedures without understanding what each step is attempting to prove or disprove along the way. Nor how it may be related or dependent upon other steps of the procedure. This procedural approach utilizes a predetermined logic path to verify what has failed before replacing it. This equates to longer analysis time spent, but hopefully higher accuracy in the diagnostic process.

This should be better, and hopefully cheaper than using what we call _"Shotgun Diagnostics_ (simply changing things until the problem goes away and then charging the customer for all parts changed).

Well ok, in this case it would likely be better to simply try a $3.00 bulb to see if it fixes the problem instead of testing the entire light circuit to ensure that the bulb is actually the problem. But in cases with much more expensive parts, spending the time testing should save money.

All that said, (sorry so long) but included with the procedure is the approved time to perform it. This is generally more than ample time for even the slowest tech to follow the procedure. It is common practice to charge based upon the accepted rate rather than charge based upon actual time spent. This works both ways, but usually in the favor of the service center.

Ok, somebody please tell me to shutup now.

*Edit:* Just in response to a recent post above . . .



> they have to charge what a book says to charge because some pencil pushing white collar worker knows what it takes to keep the business running profitably


Generally the white collar worker makes no provision for the specific operating cost of any particular service center. It is not only understood that this varies, but also part of the reason that the approved rate is only specified in hours. Operating costs are to be reflected in the dollar rate that gets applied to the hourly rate to come up with the actual charge for any service at any given service center.

Many consumers do not realize that the hourly rate a service center charges pays for a whole lot more than the technician's time.


----------



## Robhollar (Dec 27, 2003)

nevrnf;337875 said:


> Ok Bigjeeping here goes.
> 
> I was in the automotive repair industry for the last 30 years. It has bought a house, paid for things and supported a family.
> It was my income of choice.
> ...


AMEN BROTHER

Most people that arent in the service industry refuse to understand the total pic.

SOMETIMES, thing arent a simple as they seem to be. There are built in factors into the time reporting of doing a basic job ie: Not only did the tech checked your burned out taillights but im sure he checked all of your lights inside and out. Ill bet he checked everything he could on your truck. Thats how they make thier money they fix broken things, so they take the time to inspect your truck, which meens it takes TIME, ie 1/2 hour min. Then he has to go to the service writer and explain to him whats wrong with your truck, once again that takes TIME. Now the service writer has to try and find you which again takes TIME. Now lets assume he got ahold of you rite away the service writer now has to go find the mech and tell him its ok to do the repairs once again that takes TIME. Now the mech has to go to the parts counter and get your bulbs and he might have to wait cause the parts guy is busy at the moment again TIME is ticking away. Now the mech takes your bulbs and replaces them again, Time. Now hes got to check your bulbs to make sure repairs are compleated again TIME is a factor.

Now I know I skipped a few steps there and Im sure Ill get Flammed for supporting nevrnf but the simple factor while all of this is going on your truck is taking up rack space and is costing someone money. Yes 100 bucks is a bit much for this and its acually a job in my shop is givin away to my customers for free, yes I too have built the time and parts money into every bill i write. Its all part of doing business and its called my labor rate. And If they didnt do this then they would go out of business.


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Robholler;
You forgot the time to listen to the customer about the initial problem, find the truck, drive it in to the shop, drive it out of the shop, park it, call the customer, take his money, and handle his kudos or complaint's, then you give a couple (at least) % to the credit card company.

What I can't understand is why grass cutting is so expensive. Some bozo wanted me to sign a contract for $50 @ week for 9 months to cut my 3/4 acre yard. Hell I bought a used Scaq from a failing lawn company for $450 and pay the neighbor kid to $10 a shot to use it.


----------



## Oshkosh (Sep 11, 2005)

*Mercedes.....*



nevrnf;338761 said:


> Have you checked a plumbers rate for uncloging a drain lately. How about a HVAC service call.
> BTW you are luck to have a labor rate that low. The local dealers here are $110 -$125 hr
> My buddie works at Mercedes $150hr


A typical Mercedes wont need ball joints till 250,000 miles...Thats the difference...I to have a buddy who works on high end autos...


----------



## Oshkosh (Sep 11, 2005)

*Dealer mentality...*

First off ,Ask yourself ever see a poor dealership owner????
Second, I started off as a service writer then up to service manager for New England's largest power sports group.We had multiple(Show rooms),(Full line Honda,Suzuki,Yamaha,Arctic Cat,BMW,Etc...) Bikes,Boats,Watercraft,Sleds,Power equipment,GM Autos,Tires,Finance and Insurance division etc....The dealer mentality is based on PROFIT.It is about the up sell and not much else.Customer satisfaction is something to make money with, nothing else.Commissions are based on the profit above the profit the year before, does this tell you anything??? I left a very lucrative career because I didn't agree with the mentality but it is what it is....
I personally will avoid a dealer at all cost,typically I find a good local shop and when I need to farm out work give them my hard earned money.


----------



## Buster F (Jun 12, 2006)

Just this week i purchased a 2003 f-250 supercab w/55,000 mi from my local ford dealer. The purchase price for the truck was $16,500 with the agreement that they would service and detail it before delivery. They wound up replacing upper and lower ball joints (both sides), 4 new rotors, swaybar links and bushings, and ran it through the quik lube all in less than 5 hrs. Just thought it was an interesting point as to how fast this work can be done when they are the ones footing the bill. I have to admit that it was nice to get over on the dealer for oncepayup


----------



## nevrnf (Oct 12, 2005)

I think a lot of people are missing the point. Like others here have said there are a lot of things that happen from start to finish that involve many people. This time has to be paid for somehow. That is why there are FLAT RATE GUIDES. I don't totally agree with it but i do know that a business has to be profitable to stay in business. The cracks about needing to much time to figure out a bulb is bad are unwarranted. No one said it took
1/2 hr to figure out the problem. That is just the labor charges figured by the FLAT RATE MANUAL. 
This is why i got out of the Automotive industry after 30 years. The salary levels have dropped significantly over the last 5 years due to extended warranty periods. The days of $80k income are gone. Most Veteran techs are earning 1/2 of that now. To me it not worth working in that environment with all the warranty BS for so little money.


----------



## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

nevrnf;341208 said:


> . The cracks about needing to much time to figure out a bulb is bad are unwarranted. No one said it took
> 1/2 hr to figure out the problem. That is just the labor charges figured by the FLAT RATE MANUAL.


Oh I think we all know it does not take that long. On the flip side, if a dealer knows it does not take that long but in turn charges you the 1/2 hour of labor; what does that make him?

What is the industry standard at dealerships? Find someone to run the report if you work at a dealership. Most techs get billed out at 1.5 times the actual hours they work.


----------

