# Drive way price question



## Snowguy01 (Jul 23, 2007)

I have been in snow removal for a long time now and every time I turn around the price per drive way push goes down again. I was reading a article on one of my snow magazine and this guy was saying that they would get 40.00 per push for a standard two car drive way. what are the rest of you getting our rate was 15-18 now we have people doing them for 12-15 and the newest is Just plowing we plow for 10-12 per drive way. When is it going to stop I Hear people saying that they wont be around long for them prices well let me tell you if they leave there are twenty other companys that now have lowered there price to compete. I cant take it anymore. I guess my question for you all is were are you price at. thanks


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## Lawn Enforcer (Mar 20, 2006)

I get $20 per drive, $15 for the small drives. That's the only way I can have any work in my town because the company that has like 150 accounts in town has it at that price and it's been that way for years. When I started plowing, it was $25 per drive for me, and once people started talking to neighbors and learning that the other company was doing it for $15, they dropped me right away even though I did a much better job.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

I went up this year my minimum is 40 my highest is 70


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## Snowguy01 (Jul 23, 2007)

I know the last few years we are going backwards how I have a dodge cummins and a blizzard 8-10 if you put the sticker price on the window and the plow it is over 60k for the truck and plow why would i want to plow for a 10 dollar drive I am really thinking about closing the doors on my plow company and do something else.


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## TPS Alberta (Oct 18, 2010)

Is this for plowing large driveways or shovelling/blowing smaller driveways that you do by hand? 

We are charging about $20-30 for the latter, so if you guys are plowing larger drives for that price then I understand your pain! Then again, I'm in Alberta, so prices here are likely a little different. 

There are a ton of lowballers up here though. Everything from students to foreigners who are willing to work at a price that is so ridiculously low it wont even cover my fuel! 

We do however have a new "company" called "Blojob snow removal" which is ran by 4 college girls.... I'd hire on that team. hahahaha


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

35 is my minimum.


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## Tubby's Snow Plowing (Dec 13, 2009)

Being the cheapest guy out there isn't everything. Here is what will happen.

Cheap guy will get word of mouth advertising.

Cheap guy will get bombarded with customers.

Cheap guy will be overwhelmed with demand that he won't have the money to hire subs nor have the intelligence to raise his price to stabilize demand to manageable level.

Cheap guy will lose customers when demand is not met. 

Professional companies will take over accounts for a higher price, better service, and meet the demands of their customers.

Game. Set. Match. Happens every day in the business world.


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## Premier (Nov 20, 2007)

Tubby's Snow Plowing;1133792 said:


> Being the cheapest guy out there isn't everything. Here is what will happen.
> 
> Cheap guy will get word of mouth advertising.
> 
> ...


I agree with you Tubby, the only way I see a problem with this is when the new lower priced guy can figure a way to improve his service and keep his price the same. It doesn't happen often but from time to time it does happen.

our min. is 25 per drive plow only and to get that price you have to be within 1/2 mile of an existing customer small drive = <15'L X <10'W


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

Around here the average driveway is around 35-45 bucks. But no one has small driveways. If you are a company that is about the average price, but there are also tons of lowballers with trucks and plows that are worth under 500 bucks and driven by people on unemployment with no teeth who say they will plow an entire storm for 15 bucks for a 70 foot driveway. Those guys never last and my customers have been pretty good at realizing the difference between quality and price.


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## Dewey (Feb 1, 2010)

My minimum is $20.... I have one customer that wants just enough room to park a car... one push 10-15 feet........still $20


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## 09Busa (Nov 27, 2010)

My minimum is $35.......I don't care if the driveway can only fit a skateboard. That is up to six inches......up to nine?...........$50......12 inches..........$70. That is for the minimum. For larger driveways, I have no maximum. 
When I give estimates, I explain to customers that my equipment is in excellent shape and it costs money to keep it that way. I pay taxes and have G & L insurance, plus fuel, time, etc.....you get the picture. I've turned down several this year after they told me "my last guy did it for only x amount. When I asked where he was now, they said "out of business"


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

Premier;1133847 said:


> I agree with you Tubby, the only way I see a problem with this is when the new lower priced guy can figure a way to improve his service and keep his price the same. It doesn't happen often but from time to time it does happen.
> 
> our min. is 25 per drive plow only and to get that price you have to be within 1/2 mile of an existing customer small drive = <15'L X <10'W


15' X 10'? Wow, that's very small driveways. That's only 150sq.ft.

My smallest driveways are 650sq.ft. I have some that are 1900sq.ft.

most here are like 40x30,18x40, and 18x60.payup


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

I wouldnt even drop my plow for $15 in a drive
Min is $25 for us


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## Snowguy01 (Jul 23, 2007)

I would say a two car drive would fit 4 cars they are pretty standard I wish I could charge 25 to 35 min but they would laugh at us and this is for only plowing no snow blowing or shoveling and these companys have been here for years I must live in the cheapest place on earth and we get well over 100+ inches every year.


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## birddog50 (Oct 13, 2009)

My minimum is $25 for a small, basic drive. Any size or complication goes up from there. I will say I do have one drive in a HOA that I plow I do for $15. People are south for the winter, don't care when I get to it and only want one pass to make it look like someone is there, plus I am already there.


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## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

09Busa;1134107 said:


> My minimum is $35.......I don't care if the driveway can only fit a skateboard. That is up to six inches......up to nine?...........$50......12 inches..........$70. That is for the minimum. For larger driveways, I have no maximum.
> When I give estimates, I explain to customers that my equipment is in excellent shape and it costs money to keep it that way. I pay taxes and have G & L insurance, plus fuel, time, etc.....you get the picture. I've turned down several this year after they told me "my last guy did it for only x amount. When I asked where he was now, they said "out of business"


Well said.


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## ppandr (Dec 16, 2004)

I start at minimum of $40, biggest is $110....for up to 8"
Over 8" inches is 1.75x the less than 8" price....hence the min over 8" is $70
I am above average in terms of price, but have a excellent reputation and referrals.
The only time we lose customers is if they move.


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

ppandr;1134679 said:


> I start at minimum of $40, biggest is $110....for up to 8"
> Over 8" inches is 1.75x the less than 8" price....hence the min over 8" is $70
> I am above average in terms of price, but have a excellent reputation and referrals.
> The only time we lose customers is if they move.


Soooooo you could say that your $40 minimum is like for a 10'x15'? and your biggest is like a parking lot?

Not trying to come off as a jerk, but when guys on here keep talking about "my minimum is $$ and my biggest is $$, that don't really mean anything to us because if $40 a 10'x15' might be good $$, but if your talking about a 24'x80' then maybe not!

So please, when you guys talk about your minimum's, add a little more info like size of the driveway, and don't say "our driveways are average here" because what's average to one is not average to another....

I hope I'm making some sense here.


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## slave2lawns (Oct 9, 2008)

JayD2;1134718 said:


> Soooooo you could say that your $40 minimum is like for a 10'x15'? and your biggest is like a parking lot?
> 
> Not trying to come off as a jerk, but when guys on here keep talking about "my minimum is $$ and my biggest is $$, that don't really mean anything to us because if $40 a 10'x15' might be good $$, but if your talking about a 24'x80' then maybe not!
> 
> ...


Yeah your making perfect sense. There's nothing wrong with trying to get accurate info that your looking for.


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## B&B Plowing (Dec 1, 2010)

My minimum is $40, But that also includes shoveling the walk ways and salting them and the driveway thats 2 cars wide and 3 cars long. Also an incentive that comes along with if you send me 4 Customers that recieve my services for the whole time it snows they get their driveway done for free... You would be surprised how much more bisness that brings in...

B&B Plowing.


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

B&B Plowing;1134777 said:


> My minimum is $40, But that also includes shoveling the walk ways and salting them and the driveway thats 2 cars wide and 3 cars long. Also an incentive that comes along with if you send me 4 Customers that recieve my services for the whole time it snows they get their driveway done for free... You would be surprised how much more bisness that brings in...
> 
> B&B Plowing.


Now that's how you give good info on this thread, Thanks...


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## B&B Plowing (Dec 1, 2010)

No probablem.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

I have a $30.00 minimum. payup


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Snowguy01;1134250 said:


> I would say a two car drive would fit 4 cars they are pretty standard I wish I could charge 25 to 35 min but they would laugh at us and this is for only plowing no snow blowing or shoveling and these companys have been here for years I must live in the cheapest place on earth and we get well over 100+ inches every year.


I don't think so, we charge seasonal and the price for a double wide lets say 40 feet long so 650 to 800 sq ft is $300. We average 80 inches of snow and will service the client around 60 times a season. For those of you who are quick with math that's 5 bucks a pass, and we make good money at that rate. We make it affordable for most people to get our service, and thus get 60% of the homes on a street. We lose no time on travel, its just a constant in and out going down the street. I am not suggesting charging that amount, ( it is the max I can charge in my market) what I am saying is we have set ourselves up, that we have made snow removal affordable for most people, and we can offer these prices on volume. Its not for everyone, but get 100 clients that are on 5 streets all within a half mile of each other, and you will understand. There are lots of factors that are involved in pricing. Know your costs, add what profit you want and charge that price. I have lost contracts in the past that ended up going for 40% less. I was upset, but I knew I could have done it for 50% less and still made my margins. It was a good ride while it lasted. I guess what I am saying is talking price on a forum is pretty useless, talk how you can improve efficiency, and do things better better gives you a chance to make good money or sometimes you just have to walk away. I left the HOA market 6 years ago, I tried again this year and found the prices have dropped even more. There are companies that can make money in this market I cannot. Good luck this season.


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## 18lmslcsr (Jan 20, 2007)

I agree... Gr8 info B&B.

Been in the industry for 11 seasons now and the pricing structure is pretty flat. Itis very difficult to get extra income out of clientsin an areaof the country with 14+% reported unemployment. Lol!

I get the same rate as two years ago. Although I've spent considerable effort and capital to retool this summer, it just is getting more tricky to provide a gr8 quality service at the price point of avg $30 per property. This includes all patios, stoops, walkways and driveways. Extra aprons or corners too! It takes a [email protected] of a lot out of me each snow fall. Why do I do it?

Freedom, flexibility, house, car and food.

C.


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## 18lmslcsr (Jan 20, 2007)

Damn space bar is wearing out!

C.


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## ChicagoPlower (Dec 16, 2005)

I agree with Neige about keeping the prices affordable and driveways in very close proximity. 
If you don't mind me asking Neige, how long does it take on average for one your tractors to service 100 accounts? And in what circumstances ( snowfall depth) do you make two visits to a driveway during a "plowing event"? Thanks-


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## T.French (Dec 1, 2004)

My min. is $20 per push.80% of the clients Ive gotten over the last 10 yrs stay with me,unless they move.I really find that plowing doesnt make money just keeps it rolling through the winter.But I wouldnt put a person in a truck that I wouldnt want to drive myself.I plowed for other people with their junk for 15 yrs before starting my own 10 yrs ago.Some of my customers say my prices are cheap.but i estimate alot of jobs in the fall and people are getting lower prices.All I know is that when I get the clients they seem to contract with me year after year.


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## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

Neige- You have a real driveway system in place and it works excellent for you. Thumbs Up But for 95% of the guys that move snow they are not set up with blowers on tractors and have the same system as you. Props to you and that nitch you have. 

To the rest- I am like most, I have a mix of resi's and mostly commercial. I do driveways in a couple rural type sub divisions. Driveways are typically a hundred yards long to a quarter mile. One pass in, one out, some back dragging and monkeying around up by the house. $50-$70 is what I get. 10 minutes is what they average to do. 

I will not even consider doing the in town driveways, the 10'x40' deal with sidewalks to the house and city sidewalks. I tried for years to get them and was always over priced. I figured $30-$40 on them was fair but was always skoffed at. The deal with most of us is these driveways are one here and one there, miles apart, sometimes 5-10 miles apart. I need to be paid for that time in between. 

And with all of this said, who really plows for the $50-$80 per hour in your truck with a plow and is happy with your financial results. If you are pricing you're work based off those rates, than driveways will add up to the $10-$20 per driveway. Not me, never. Driveways especially have a "value" I believe. That value is worth much more than $20. We are running around with $40,000-$50,000 trucks, $5000 plows, snowblowers, shovels, not to mention our time. I'm not sitting around all winter worrying about snow, getting up every half hour of the night during events to know when to make the call, beating up on all my good equipment to make $50-$80 per hour to pay for all of that. 

I'm not calling anyone here out, just saying


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## Turf Commando (Dec 16, 2007)

I really don't care what the going rate is, I set a price you take or go elsewhere...


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## msu1510 (Jan 25, 2010)

dont feel to bad around here there are plenty of guys that will do a 4 car driveway for $150 for the season. we average over 70 inches a year and have had over 100 inches the last 3 years. thats why we dont bother with many residentals. if the other guys can do it at that price i say let em. i stick with commercial. its what we are set up for and what we can compete at.


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## msu1510 (Jan 25, 2010)

oh the couple we do are around $15 per push and they are owners of businesses that we plow and they live close to our routes or a couple of widows that we plow but they dont get charged anything.


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## Subseven (Jul 26, 2009)

I would never even consider doing a friggin' driveway for under 20.


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

Eronningen;1144592 said:


> Neige- You have a real driveway system in place and it works excellent for you. Thumbs Up But for 95% of the guys that move snow they are not set up with blowers on tractors and have the same system as you. Props to you and that nitch you have.
> 
> To the rest- I am like most, I have a mix of resi's and mostly commercial. I do driveways in a couple rural type sub divisions. Driveways are typically a hundred yards long to a quarter mile. One pass in, one out, some back dragging and monkeying around up by the house. $50-$70 is what I get. 10 minutes is what they average to do.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with this post. Very good info here. I am on his side with everything he said. The average customer does not see the costs that go into this. I have gotten the response "why do you have to charge so much it doesnt cost anything except for gas for you to drive forward with your plow on the ground"


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## mwadeson (Nov 29, 2010)

We go 30 min and there is companies in town that will do it cheaper but it all goes back to that old saying you get what you pay for


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

A guy that is pretty succesfull in this business said some pretty hard numbers and if you read the article about him in Snow mag, you'll get the rest of the numbers and when you add them up, he's doing a heck of a business, sure it's a nitch market but it's a big business.

I love telling people that we do drives for 6 bucks and see their eyes roll because it seems no one pays attention to the hourly billable, they only look at the "job" price.

With our economy, most are working for a bit less in places, service no matter how great will only carry you with some customers so far, so you either have to improve efficency or retire. We all can complain about it but if you focus your energy on being better faster, then maybe you'll be able to lower your price and increase your bottom line at the same time.

Neige, I gotta ask, do your drivers come back at shift end looking over their shoulder as it would seem to really hurt your neck doing that after awhile - and 60 services with only 80", wow....


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## 09Busa (Nov 27, 2010)

Turf Commando....EXACTLY!....I do not care what others are charging. I know what I need to make and I charge accordingly. If you start to concentrate on what others are charging, you are taking your focus off of where it should be...."your business". Many of my customers are seasonal or weekenders that want to make sure their driveways are cleared when they arrive and for the time they are here. Some might say that it is a good idea to keep aware of what your competition is charging. In my mind, I do not have competition. If someone else will offer a cheaper price, many times they will end up "paying customers to do their properties." I refuse to do so and lose no sleep over this.
I explain my pricing to customers and 99.9% of the time, they tell me that their previous contractor never answered their phones, had equipment that was always breaking down, etc.....an educated consumer is a happy consumer and if they feel as though they are being served by a professional, they will pay you accordingly. People will feed a monkey peanuts all day as long as he holds his hand out. I do not negotiate prices. Negotiating prices make you appear as you were overcharging them from the start. If someone needs to come on here and be spoon fed what to charge for whatever size area he is doing, then maybe he is not ready to be in business for himself, as he is not sure of himself or his business. I do not mean to offend anyone....just calling balls and strikes........


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## Jay51 (Nov 30, 2010)

I won't drop the plow for under $40. You get what you pay for. My equipment is fairly new and it cost money to keep it that way never mind insurance, fuel repairs etc.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Jay51;1146833 said:


> I won't drop the plow for under $40. You get what you pay for. My equipment is fairly new and it cost money to keep it that way never mind insurance, fuel repairs etc.


Amen brother, our minimum is $30.00 but I hear you.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

I recently upped my minimum to $30.00, but driveway size isnt all that matters...is there somewhere to push the snow??.....is it on a major road with awful traffic??......is the homeowner a real a-hole??....these are just some of the things that help me figure out my price


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

ChicagoPlower;1144483 said:


> I agree with Neige about keeping the prices affordable and driveways in very close proximity.
> If you don't mind me asking Neige, how long does it take on average for one your tractors to service 100 accounts? And in what circumstances ( snowfall depth) do you make two visits to a driveway during a "plowing event"? Thanks-


A good driver will do 50 an hour, so we set them up with 150 clients. Our trigger is 2 inches, so we will do them once over night, and then go back during the day to clean up the whole drive. We will service 3- 4 times during big storms.







Eronningen;1144592 said:


> Neige- You have a real driveway system in place and it works excellent for you. Thumbs Up But for 95% of the guys that move snow they are not set up with blowers on tractors and have the same system as you. Props to you and that nitch you have.
> 
> To the rest- I am like most, I have a mix of resi's and mostly commercial. I do driveways in a couple rural type sub divisions. Driveways are typically a hundred yards long to a quarter mile. One pass in, one out, some back dragging and monkeying around up by the house. $50-$70 is what I get. 10 minutes is what they average to do.
> 
> ...


I agree but we are getting around $250/hr, with equipment that will last 15 years.



framer1901;1146154 said:


> A guy that is pretty succesfull in this business said some pretty hard numbers and if you read the article about him in Snow mag, you'll get the rest of the numbers and when you add them up, he's doing a heck of a business, sure it's a nitch market but it's a big business.
> I love telling people that we do drives for 6 bucks and see their eyes roll because it seems no one pays attention to the hourly billable, they only look at the "job" price.
> 
> With our economy, most are working for a bit less in places, service no matter how great will only carry you with some customers so far, so you either have to improve efficency or retire. We all can complain about it but if you focus your energy on being better faster, then maybe you'll be able to lower your price and increase your bottom line at the same time.
> ...


Thanks here it is http://www.snowmagazineonline.com/snow-1110-paul-vanderson-cover-story.aspx

Yeh you do get a sore neck, but they pay is worth it.


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## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

I average $250-$300 per piece of equipment also. All I was getting at is that for folks to go out and charge small amounts for driveways they better have their ducks in a row.


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## mwadeson (Nov 29, 2010)

JTVLandscaping;1147058 said:


> I recently upped my minimum to $30.00, but driveway size isnt all that matters...is there somewhere to push the snow??.....is it on a major road with awful traffic??......is the homeowner a real a-hole??....these are just some of the things that help me figure out my price


i like and agree i have one account that *****es every time and this year when he called i told him he should try to find someone else he didn't so now he is last on the list and the price almost doubled this year not that it matters he wont pay any way


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

We r in Columbus, its hit or miss. I have a contract of group homes, 20 houses $75 to $90, two car drives, and normal sidewalks. Then i bided a single house at $65 and was told im crazy. I hate even taking on house's, so i down play them to the customer when they call saying they they r alot of work because we snow blow them, backing draging just dosent get it. I always end up at $50-$75. Depends on ur market area, when a customer says to much i remind them that we r insured for snow removal not a guy with a truck and plow with auto insurance. Then i tell them to check craigslist if thats what they r lookin for.
What gets me r the a-rab stores wanting lots pushed for $25 on a good 4-6 inch. Thats F____ing the industry


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

swtiih;1134570 said:


> Well said.


instead of listing all the expenses to a customer, I just tell them there's a "cost of doing business" that I have to pay just to work. I don't have a minimum. It is what it is.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Did I see right,one of the first posts here talking about $10-$12 a driveway?My god,I remember when I was 16 years old 41 years ago[yeah,I'm an old fart] when my buddy and I would shovel the small driveways for $10.I don't give a rat's azz if the driveway is only 1 car width wide and as long as my truck,I don't drop my plow for anyone for less than $40.I hate scumbag lowballers with a passion.This is the crap why snow removal is usually called ''blood money.''If everyone held the line on pricing,a client's decision would only be based on quality,not cheapness.


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## jgoetter1 (Feb 23, 2007)

Tubby's Snow Plowing;1133792 said:


> Being the cheapest guy out there isn't everything. Here is what will happen.
> 
> Cheap guy will get word of mouth advertising.
> 
> ...


Well said. Basic laws of business.


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## Snowguy01 (Jul 23, 2007)

Very well said. I am really thinking about this snow removal part of my business I think this will be my last year at the size that we are at. I am going to sell a few trucks and only keep like 10 places. If I would l sell some truck that would off set my cost and would not have to work that much in the winter and lot less stress.


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## mxman (Jan 5, 2010)

My mim. is 35.00 , my larger driveways 100' long are about 45.00 - 50.00 . If I go back for a second time plowing less then 2" and the wake at the end of the driveway I charge them 1 1/2 times there rate, if I go back for a second time and I am plowing more then 2" I charge them 2 times there rate, and so on. To shovel walks 30 - 40' I charge 12 dollars. And sanding mim. charge is 35.00 . We spend a lot of money just getting all the equipment ready for snow. In the past I've lost some client that didn't want to pay my rates. But we do good work and I always pick up another driveway to compiensate for that.


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## 09Busa (Nov 27, 2010)

I can not understand how some of you guys come on here and whine about "lowballers"..You post how lowballers are charging $10-$12 per driveway and they went in lower than your $15-18......YOU! are the original lowballers......You're doing driveways for what a 14 year old with a shovel would do a driveway for. Set your price, stand by it....don't let your knees start knocking and don't destroy the rest of the industry. BUT!....DO NOT come on here and act like someone lowballed you, when you're a lowballer yourself. you guys should all go into business together....Call it....LOWBALLERS R US!.........


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

09Busa;1149889 said:


> I can not understand how some of you guys come on here and whine about "lowballers"..You post how lowballers are charging $10-$12 per driveway and they went in lower than your $15-18......YOU! are the original lowballers......You're doing driveways for what a 14 year old with a shovel would do a driveway for. Set your price, stand by it....don't let your knees start knocking and don't destroy the rest of the industry. BUT!....DO NOT come on here and act like someone lowballed you, when you're a lowballer yourself. you guys should all go into business together....Call it....LOWBALLERS R US!.........


LOWBALLERS R US! :laughing::laughing::laughingayup


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## Snowguy01 (Jul 23, 2007)

09Busa;1149889 said:


> I can not understand how some of you guys come on here and whine about "lowballers"..You post how lowballers are charging $10-$12 per driveway and they went in lower than your $15-18......YOU! are the original lowballers......You're doing driveways for what a 14 year old with a shovel would do a driveway for. Set your price, stand by it....don't let your knees start knocking and don't destroy the rest of the industry. BUT!....DO NOT come on here and act like someone lowballed you, when you're a lowballer yourself. you guys should all go into business together....Call it....LOWBALLERS R US!.........


I would not call 15-18 low ball price before you open up your mouth you should know that that the price of 15-18 has been the normal price for 5+ yrs now here yes it is way too cheap but what can you do about that I can give prices like 30 to 45 per plow and I would be out of business tomarrow. All I was asking was what other people get in there areas and how could you make a living on 10-12 a plow, that is it I am rethinking my plowing end of my business and I would rather opt out of plow then to keep plow for low prices. I can sit in my excavator and make a heck of a lot more than to beat up my trucks.


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## krd3105 (Mar 5, 2005)

*New customer*

I just gave an estimate of $110 to a new client. He has 3 properties within 8miles of each other ( and my shop). 2 of three drives are tight and require some snowblowing and the other is just a quick 25' long 2 car drive with shoveling the walks. Does this sound about right? I figure its a little low but, its a package deal.. If never quoted multiple jobs so close to each other.. guess im just confused


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## 09Busa (Nov 27, 2010)

$15-$18 is not a low price?????/....So you say......is that why you're thinking of giving up the snowplowing?.....because you're making too much money? The reason that is the price in your area is because of guys like you that settled for it Each one of us contributes as to what a "price is in an area" I believe that I provide excellent service and will not lessen my price for what others are NOT charging. you should sit in your excavator......hope you charge more than $20 per hour in that thing....then maybe the professional snowplow contractors can raise the price up to somewhere where it should be. I wish EVERY lowballer would give it up......

"If the truth hurts, let him die"


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## mwadeson (Nov 29, 2010)

we dont do much for private drives so i don't think i have a say in the price. The calls i do get i tell them it is a $30 min. When they act surprised i say it is what it is. I am not out to do this because i enjoy the crappy hours and being out in the freezing cold. I had one guy cancel his contract on us cause he decided he was going to buy a snowblower and do his 1/4 mile long driveway. I was ok with that i just told him that if he needs he has my number. First snow fall was fine second snow fall he calls and decided my price wasn't so bad. I told him we would do it but the first of the year we are doing a price increase. He was ok with that and now wants to sell his brand new snow blower to us. 

It is what it is!!!!


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

mwadeson;1152079 said:


> we dont do much for private drives so i don't think i have a say in the price. The calls i do get i tell them it is a $30 min. When they act surprised i say it is what it is. I am not out to do this because i enjoy the crappy hours and being out in the freezing cold. I had one guy cancel his contract on us cause he decided he was going to buy a snowblower and do his 1/4 mile long driveway. I was ok with that i just told him that if he needs he has my number. First snow fall was fine second snow fall he calls and decided my price wasn't so bad. I told him we would do it but the first of the year we are doing a price increase. He was ok with that and now wants to sell his brand new snow blower to us.
> 
> It is what it is!!!!


So what blower did he buy and are you getting it?


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## mwadeson (Nov 29, 2010)

it is a husqvarna 28inch cut but it is bare bones no drift cutters no electric start no nothing and i am not taking it.


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

mwadeson;1152419 said:


> it is a husqvarna 28inch cut but it is bare bones no drift cutters no electric start no nothing and i am not taking it.


I don't blame you...I wouldn't ..


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## LawnGuy110 (Feb 15, 2010)

I am only a one-man-show and I don't have a plow; just a few shovels, a snowblower, and a garden tractor with a blade on it. For me, the price of driveways depends on if they want it salted or not, how much snow is on it, and how long it takes me.


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## NPMinc (Nov 29, 2010)

Kidmows;1168707 said:


> I am only a one-man-show and I don't have a plow; just a few shovels, a snowblower, and a garden tractor with a blade on it. For me, the price of driveways depends on if they want it salted or not, how much snow is on it, and how long it takes me.


Ok so the point of your post and how it pertains to the original post is? (ie you didnt state any real information, other then the OBVIOUS pricing factors). Also your "operation" compared to that of one using a truck and snowplow, or one with the larger tractors with blowers is like comparing apples and oranges as far as overhead costs,etc.


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## simoncx (Dec 3, 2007)

For you guys who are doing drives for 10-15 are you doing just the drives or do you also get out and do the sidewalks? All our clients want sidewalks and steps done so if we did then for those prices it would cost us money after the storm. I can't image prices that low, I was getting $30 when I kid 16-18 years ago going around the neighborhood with a shovel. With price of gas and equip so high I don't see how you can make good money charging that much unless you have 40-50 houses next door to each other taking only a couple minutes each. Even kids in my nieghborhood would laugh at you if you offered them $20 to do the snow.


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## NPMinc (Nov 29, 2010)

Even at $10-$15 a pop if you have 40 , figure10 mins each thats not exactly raking it in as far as hourly rate(around $60-65 an hour). Not to mention as siomoncx stated that around here that includes sidewalks, access walks/steps etc, not just the driveway itself so prob more then 10 mins. Not in anyway knocking those who do residential driveways as they can be VERY profitable, provided you charge accordingly and plan to have a tight route. In fact I know of some around here who have alot of drives in a tight area who average more $/hr than the going rate for commercial work when working, but around here most drives are once n done not a trigger/per push so they mostly work after the snow is done and dont get the hours those doing commercial work do.


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

$30.00 minimum when i do them. i mostly stick to the comm'l lots and don't mess with the resi's unless it's friends and family or its a weekend storm and we get a million call ins then i charge min. 40


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## Captain (Sep 27, 2008)

I've been at $25 for the last 13 years, all the same customers. I have a couple of just straight push, no back drag driveways that I do for $20.


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

snowguy, 
I think alot of people who say stuff like "I wont drop my blade for less than $40" are either blowing smoke or lucky enough to be in a good market. In Erie if we said its its $30 for a standard driveway you know as well as I do how many drives you would have. So you can either try to do them for $15 and try to be efficent enough to make money, or just not do it at alll sell the equip and stay home, but just coming up with they price you want and saying thats it and if I dont get it im not doing it, thats not an option. At least not in the world we live in.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

I don't know about him blowing smoke or him being in a good market but I do know one thing. Im a rookie and don't necessairly have to plow snow to "make it"....... Im exactly like him though, I dont give a rats azz if its a small sidewalk you need shoveled. Im not coming to your house for Less than $40 period. I don't know, maybe if I was going hungry id consider working for nothing but until then dont call to have snow moved if you don't have atleast 40 bucks to throw towards it. 

The way I see it is, if I had 10 people call me to have there driveways plowed (small drives exmpl 50ft long), id rather have half of them at $40 than have 10 drives at $20. 

If you arent willing to give a man what the job is worth (and more for that matter, it is nast and cold outside, wonder if they would do it for that?) Then don't call....... I don't know maybe with that attitude I ll never have a big booming plow business..... But when I leave my driveway Im dam sure gonna be making money on the jobs I do have though.... So far this year Ive gotten plenty of work with this attitude.

This is something that I would lay money on.... All you fellas saying $25 per small driveway or less, the next time you get called for an estimate step out of your comfort zone a little bit and say $45....... I think that if you show up, be polite, smile as much as possible when talking to the customer, you will get work. Its working great for me... 

I have to give all this way of thinking to my Uncle who raised me. Buddy that guy makes $$$$$$$ at everything he does. He used to plow but just got tired of the plowing. Made plenty of money but it was still side money for he is a farmer. We had a big snow in 1997 and i was out of school for the whole week. I dont know how much money he made that week but holly cow he made it that week. He was one of the only people in our small local phone book under landscaping so his phone was going crazy. He told every one of them he was not coming out for less than $100. Mind you it was a big snow For southern ohio though.. Somewhere around 10 inches if I remember correctly. he always said he would rather be higher than everyone else and do GOOD work and you would always be okay........ Ive run my mowing business that way now for 10 years and Its worked. 

Hey Im not tooootin my whistle, there are plenty of folks out there that are more expensive than me but working for nothing is just stupid.....


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

You wouldn't have half at 40. You would have zero, here at least.


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## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

PhilFromErie;1169662 said:


> snowguy,
> I think alot of people who say stuff like "I wont drop my blade for less than $40" are either blowing smoke or lucky enough to be in a good market. In Erie if we said its its $30 for a standard driveway you know as well as I do how many drives you would have. So you can either try to do them for $15 and try to be efficent enough to make money, or just not do it at alll sell the equip and stay home, but just coming up with they price you want and saying thats it and if I dont get it im not doing it, thats not an option. At least not in the world we live in.


No smoke blowing here. I just chose to dictate how much money I would like myself and my company make, rather than letting what I hear influence me into different pricing. 
Fact is I really don't want to do any driveways but the ones I do get I make good money on and service them well. I have plowed long enought to know that running around in a trcuk doing driveways for less than that is not going to make you much money, thats all.


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

snowcrazy;1169959 said:


> I don't know about him blowing smoke or him being in a good market but I do know one thing. Im a rookie and don't necessairly have to plow snow to "make it"....... Im exactly like him though, I dont give a rats azz if its a small sidewalk you need shoveled. Im not coming to your house for Less than $40 period. I don't know, maybe if I was going hungry id consider working for nothing but until then dont call to have snow moved if you don't have atleast 40 bucks to throw towards it.
> 
> The way I see it is, if I had 10 people call me to have there driveways plowed (small drives exmpl 50ft long), id rather have half of them at $40 than have 10 drives at $20.
> 
> ...


Thumbs Up, If you cant make money, then I don't want to be out here.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

09Busa;1149889 said:


> I can not understand how some of you guys come on here and whine about "lowballers"..You post how lowballers are charging $10-$12 per driveway and they went in lower than your $15-18......YOU! are the original lowballers......You're doing driveways for what a 14 year old with a shovel would do a driveway for. Set your price, stand by it....don't let your knees start knocking and don't destroy the rest of the industry. BUT!....DO NOT come on here and act like someone lowballed you, when you're a lowballer yourself. you guys should all go into business together....Call it....LOWBALLERS R US!.........


That is an unjust statement. Just because you cant make money at $15.00 does not make someone who does a lowballer. If I were to get $15.00 I would be a multi millionaire, would that still make me a lowballer? Or just a smart business man?



09Busa;1151706 said:


> $15-$18 is not a low price?????/....So you say......is that why you're thinking of giving up the snowplowing?.....because you're making too much money? The reason that is the price in your area is because of guys like you that settled for it Each one of us contributes as to what a "price is in an area" I believe that I provide excellent service and will not lessen my price for what others are NOT charging. you should sit in your excavator......hope you charge more than $20 per hour in that thing....then maybe the professional snowplow contractors can raise the price up to somewhere where it should be. I wish EVERY lowballer would give it up......
> 
> "If the truth hurts, let him die"


Again it sounds like you want others to charge your prices, so that you can make money. I provide an excellent service, and am the most expensive in my market. I am curious how long have you been plowing snow, and how big an operation you are?



PhilFromErie;1169662 said:


> snowguy,
> I think alot of people who say stuff like "I wont drop my blade for less than $40" are either blowing smoke or lucky enough to be in a good market. In Erie if we said its its $30 for a standard driveway you know as well as I do how many drives you would have. So you can either try to do them for $15 and try to be efficent enough to make money, or just not do it at alll sell the equip and stay home, but just coming up with they price you want and saying thats it and if I dont get it im not doing it, thats not an option. At least not in the world we live in.


This sounds like a more reasonable statement, you can only charge what the market will bear. So doing them efficiently at $15 and making money or offer $40 and have nothing. My choice would be $15 if I can make money with it. If I cant meet my profit margins then I would do something else, or just get out. I really don't like it when people tell me I am not making enough money. Just so you know I am charging around $5.00 a push and doing very well indeed for myself. Again I am not saying you should charge this amount, and I would charge more if I could, but its just not the case in market. I will say that my prices are based on a seasonal contract, if we get a call from someone who just wants it done on call the price is $40. Maybe that's why 70% of drives have a seasonal contract. Don't worry I have been called a lowballer, just not from anyone in my market, interesting.


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## JLS24 (Jul 27, 2009)

Well said Neige, I have a lot of respect for you and your operation. There are alot of "blow-hards" on here and i like how your not afraid to respond to them.


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## Snowguy01 (Jul 23, 2007)

PhilFromErie;1169988 said:


> You wouldn't't have half at 40. You would have zero, here at least.


It is just frustrating to have people like just plowing here doing them for 10-12 I try to get top dollar but we both know that is not going to happen here at least some one knows what it is like here.


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## Snowguy01 (Jul 23, 2007)

Neige;1170287 said:


> That is an unjust statement. Just because you cant make money at $15.00 does not make someone who does a lowballer. If I were to get $15.00 I would be a multi millionaire, would that still make me a lowballer? Or just a smart business man?
> 
> Again it sounds like you want others to charge your prices, so that you can make money. I provide an excellent service, and am the most expensive in my market. I am curious how long have you been plowing snow, and how big an operation you are?
> 
> This sounds like a more reasonable statement, you can only charge what the market will bear. So doing them efficiently at $15 and making money or offer $40 and have nothing. My choice would be $15 if I can make money with it. If I cant meet my profit margins then I would do something else, or just get out. I really don't like it when people tell me I am not making enough money. Just so you know I am charging around $5.00 a push and doing very well indeed for myself. Again I am not saying you should charge this amount, and I would charge more if I could, but its just not the case in market. I will say that my prices are based on a seasonal contract, if we get a call from someone who just wants it done on call the price is $40. Maybe that's why 70% of drives have a seasonal contract. Don't worry I have been called a lowballer, just not from anyone in my market, interesting.


Very well said.


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

Paul, I love your insight. Can't wait to meet you in person at the sima show this summer.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

PhilFromErie;1169988 said:


> You wouldn't have half at 40. You would have zero, here at least.


Well man, then it would be time to sell the plow. Plain and simple............... Im not working for nothing. Im not married to snow plowing, landscaping etc, I will go where I can make money.

I do feel bad for you though if there is that much competition. That is truely a shame. The only reason why I bought a plow is because I saw a need for it in my area. We do have some folks around here that plow but not an absolute ton. Good luck to you though man, I do hope it gets better. Just keep in mind pricing out of your comfort zone because $40 is not much..... There WILL be folks in your area that will be willing to pay better money than you would think.


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## mow4cash (Jan 9, 2009)

Min $30 a push up to 6"...and that might cover expenses. Plowing has to expensive of an overhead, maintenance, and not to mention risk. I think if i made $75 min I might say it was worth it. I pretty much plow to keep lawn customers. I cant believe your market is that low there. I guess you could make money under certain circumstances. I think the price will eventually go up after people start losing money. The amount of wear on a truck doing large quantity's of driveways will kill a truck quick. Sorry to hear the bad news but I think eventually they will go under and the price will go back up.


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## piperpm (Oct 17, 2009)

Here in small-town Wellesley, Ontario (on the edge of snowbelt country) we have to compete with a business that charges based on the "stop watch" method ... the total number of minutes of plowing for the season = your total bill which equates to most customers getting a seasons worth of plowing for under $150!
As a result of this stiff competition, we do have some small one-car driveways that we push for $10 but our minimum is usually $20 and goes up to $50 for a conutry lane customer we have. With the prices the competition charges, even though we provide a more dedicated and reliable service (I believe anyways..) we can't stretch our prices much further. Even at $20 per push we have some new customers asking if we would do it for cheaper!


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## mwadeson (Nov 29, 2010)

i love it when people ask if we can do it cheaper no i can't plain and simple if you want to save money do it yourself you will realize that the 30 min is not that bad when it is snowing 1 time a week and it never fails if you do it your self then the plow comes by one more time and fills you in again well if we push it and this happens call and i will come back and hit it again doesn't happen much cause i know what the route is for the most part


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## 09Busa (Nov 27, 2010)

Neige;1170287 said:


> That is an unjust statement. Just because you cant make money at $15.00 does not make someone who does a lowballer. If I were to get $15.00 I would be a multi millionaire, would that still make me a lowballer? Or just a smart business man?
> 
> Again it sounds like you want others to charge your prices, so that you can make money. I provide an excellent service, and am the most expensive in my market. I am curious how long have you been plowing snow, and how big an operation you are?
> 
> This sounds like a more reasonable statement, you can only charge what the market will bear. So doing them efficiently at $15 and making money or offer $40 and have nothing. My choice would be $15 if I can make money with it. If I cant meet my profit margins then I would do something else, or just get out. I really don't like it when people tell me I am not making enough money. Just so you know I am charging around $5.00 a push and doing very well indeed for myself. Again I am not saying you should charge this amount, and I would charge more if I could, but its just not the case in market. I will say that my prices are based on a seasonal contract, if we get a call from someone who just wants it done on call the price is $40. Maybe that's why 70% of drives have a seasonal contract. Don't worry I have been called a lowballer, just not from anyone in my market, interesting.


I have to chuckle when guys get on here and feel the need to justify their prices. (Low ones) I should clarify.......My per pushes are a minimum of $35.00. Obviously profit on contracts varies from year to year and the dollar amounts per push on these does as well. If you are doing driveways for about $5.00 per push and you are the most expensive in your market, what are the less expensive guys charging? Out of your $5.00, do you pay your overhead and employees with this? Or do you do ten million driveways that are two feet long. I mean , help me out here......I wish you lived near me. While I was out plowing, I would contract you to do my driveway at $5.00 per push. trust me I would. Save me from doing it on my return.

To answer your questions. I have been plowing for over thirty years. I worked for a large property msintenance company that maintained several 900+unit apartment complexes and I have one truck and very little overhead. That being said sir, I am doing VERY well, yet do not feel the need to post this on here, until someone such as yourself calls me on it.

That being said, I see from your sig, you have quite the fleet. do you own it or does the bank sir?. True definition of "doing well" is when YOU own it and not the bank. I see too many of you guys go under when it does not snow enough for a season. Doing well for me means doing my lanscaping in the Summer and ONLY plowing in the Winter. I am afforded much time off to persue hobbies, enjoy my toys and travel. (depending on the weather) This to me is doing well. Maybe I am missing the boat. Then again I'm sure you or some of those riding your j**k will let me know.


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## NicholasMWhite (Oct 5, 2008)

There is one HUGE flaw in this entire thread!

No one speaks of a service window at all! I maintain a 6 hour service window. That means all my working customers are able to get out and go to work unless it is a freak snow storm dumping 1"+ per hour. If I had a 12 hour service window half of my customers would be up a creek.

When I got into this industry the biggest complaint I heard from customers was that their plow guy doesn't come until noon or later. So I committed to only servicing residential customers. %90 of the time my price is higher than their last plow guy and higher than all other bids. But I get work at my price without any issues. Then I raise prices every year and no one leaves. Why would they go back to the plow guy who doesn't plow their driveway until noon??? Just to save some money? I don't think so!

I make about $800 with my 6 hour residential route. That's $125 an hour. I have 21 customers. If you guys charge $15, you'd have to have 53 customers to make the same amount of money. And with 53 customers, It'd be tough to maintain a reasonable service window while PLOWING that many drives. And that's not to say it can't be done. I know it can, but it's not easy.

As for Neige, he makes it on $5 per push because of his efficiency. He also maintains a small service window (less than 4 hours) and does 150 customers in that small service window.

My point here is the most important thing to a customer is when it will be done. So sell your services as such. Some of you say when a customer calls you immediately tell them "I have a $30 minimum." I tell them "let me come take a look, when will you be home." Then when I get there I can stress the benefits of choosing my business despite the higher cost.


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## Wieckster (Jan 9, 2008)

I tell them a dollar a minute and they look at me like I am crazy if you think about it thats fair and I make good money. I have alot of driveways all in a row so it adds up fast.


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## born2farm (Dec 24, 2007)

around here my minimum is $25..that is for a two car wide three car deep simple drive. I shovel the front walk and in front of the garage door for that price as well. We very rarely have more then a 4in storm so its one price across the board.


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## massplownow (Dec 31, 2010)

My minimum is $25. This is for up to 9", 10" or more is $35, for a 4 car driveway. This of course goes up with size and complexity. Shovelling a walkway is an additional $10 (this of course goes to my 10 year old son who does it!)


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

Wow....I just started this year and I'm getting $40-45 per drive, $10-15 more for their sidewalk, and some want salt and that's $8-12.50 more. I only use snow blowers and shovel. Most take me about 30 min in and out though.


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

Another thing that don't get talked about that much is that, regardless of margins any business needs a certain quantity of cash to pay fixed expenses. So someone who says ill only do a job if I have a 60% gross margin, that's all great but even if you make that 60% or whatever, you may only generate 100k gross revenue. So what happens if that 60k gross profit is not enough to pay for your building, property tax, and other fixed expenses while still having cash left over to reinvest back into your business with cash.

so what is better?
100k with 60% gross profit =60k
200k @ 50% =100k
500k @ 40% =200k

for me all I really care about is putting dollars in my pocket so if I can make money off something i don't turn my nose up at it.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Wieckster;1175550 said:


> I tell them a dollar a minute and they look at me like I am crazy if you think about it thats fair and I make good money. I have alot of driveways all in a row so it adds up fast.


My minimum is $25.00 and my average drivewat takes less then five minutes. So to charge $1.00 per minute on residential would not work for me.

Commerical thats a different story.


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## Dr Who (Dec 16, 2010)

09Busa;1149889 said:


> I can not understand how some of you guys come on here and whine about "lowballers"..You post how lowballers are charging $10-$12 per driveway and they went in lower than your $15-18......YOU! are the original lowballers......You're doing driveways for what a 14 year old with a shovel would do a driveway for. Set your price, stand by it....don't let your knees start knocking and don't destroy the rest of the industry. BUT!....DO NOT come on here and act like someone lowballed you, when you're a lowballer yourself. you guys should all go into business together....Call it....LOWBALLERS R US!.........


I agree, look at the lot, give them the price that you think is fair, but yet you make money on it/justify your equipment and you being there at 3am in a snow storm.
ifthey do not like it, let them do it thereself with a shovel or pay someone else.

I figger that if its not worth my time and energy then I do not want to deal with it, I by no means am wealthy, I do snow removal more as a hobby business then life supporting as it don't snow enuff here to make it worth while. But I do a good job not puch 2 passes into the building/sidewalk and I expect to be paid for it (fair market rate).

I do hardly get any that I bid on, why becasue I am 10-30 bucks higher, I lost one due to25.00 difference but I included the walkways, the other guy didn't, but he got it.

In short, I bid the way I think is fair and what I would pay for if it were my lot, and I would expect the best job that could be done. 
Also I refuse to be labled a LOW BALLER!!


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## Dr Who (Dec 16, 2010)

JayD2;1150395 said:


> LOWBALLERS R US! :laughing::laughing::laughingayup


 maybe I should change the name of my business to Lowballers R US and start a franchise!


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

09Busa;1175518 said:


> I have to chuckle when guys get on here and feel the need to justify their prices. (Low ones) I should clarify.......My per pushes are a minimum of $35.00. Obviously profit on contracts varies from year to year and the dollar amounts per push on these does as well. If you are doing driveways for about $5.00 per push and you are the most expensive in your market, what are the less expensive guys charging? Out of your $5.00, do you pay your overhead and employees with this? Or do you do ten million driveways that are two feet long. I mean , help me out here......I wish you lived near me. While I was out plowing, I would contract you to do my driveway at $5.00 per push. trust me I would. Save me from doing it on my return.
> 
> Some are charging as little as 3.50. Of course I pay my overhead and employees with my 5 bucks a push. I am at just under 3400 drives this year, average size being 600 sq.ft. Now listen carefully my prices are seasonal, pre pay for the season. On an average season, it works out to 5 bucks a push.
> 
> ...


I come on here to share my ideas and how it works for me. Its certainly is not for eveyone, but there are many like me who are doing very well by it. Yes we own all our equipment. Our yearly income is pretty steady regardless how much snow falls. We do have several loans with the bank for the last 2 companies we bought out. In 5 years we will be debt free, unless we decide to get even bigger. I called you out this time because I found your answers very condensending. There are many on here who are trying to make a living, just because they charge 15 bucks a drive, does not necessarly make them a lowballer.


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## 09Busa (Nov 27, 2010)

Neige........obviously what you are doing works for you. I applaud this. What I was speaking about concerns dozens of posts where guys complained about someone going in cheaper, when at their rate, they had to go in cheaper than someone else in order to get that work.
You can not complain about the guy that goes in for 10-12 dollars, when you were at 15-18. Maybe I am very fortunate in my niche, where I have seasonal and weekenders. My minimum is $35.00 and that is up to 6". The price goes up at 6.1" and 9.1" and keep going up.
I do understand how your business model works for you. I did not mean to turn this into a p***ng match or appear to be condenscending.


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## Sp3cialized (Dec 16, 2010)

09Busa- I invite you to take a trip out to Erie, PA. I invite you to drive through the country where there are people who live in homes which are less fortunate than you. I bet you are a 20something year old with no clue about life other than your hometown in NY state somewhere- probably near NYC I assume where youve never seen poverty before? 

I'm not saying I live this every day- but you can't say that you know what you're talking about until youve visited these places some guys on here are from.

I've driven through Erie, and that place is SAD. I thought the 'recession' hit around here hard- but really I dont know anyone that can't get a job that hasnt been trying. These are areas that used to be booming with industrial parks, assembly, forging plants, they used to be the backbone of our country. I wish you would have a little decency, grow the F up.


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## Sp3cialized (Dec 16, 2010)

I am fuming right now. Honestly if this was a face to face discussion I probably would have laid you out cold on some nice pavement, let you wake up and do it again, let you feel how some of these people 'feel' when they have to 'lowball' to get their work back- because they don't have work like you and I do. 

The people who cant afford your 35/min per push are out shoveling, and they don't care if they have to shovel all day- but they definitely can't pay some shmuck in his 60k truck to plow their driveway for probably 3-4x their daily food allowance in some cases.


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## Tubby's Snow Plowing (Dec 13, 2009)

Snow plowing services are a luxury. If you can't afford to pay someone to do something for you, you will have to do it yourself. 

Generally the people that compete solely on price have nothing else to offer the customer.


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## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

Wow, in between all of this silly bickering, there is some very good info....thanks Neige! Where I live, a standard driveway is around $40/visit. Some storms require 2 visits. Most of these driveways are around 3-5k sq. ft., but very straight forward and easy and usually with enough room to stack the snow.

I currently do not do snow. I have in the past with a p/u and 8' straight blade, and managed 30 drives pretty easily along with my commercial snow work.

I am going to be starting again, and am looking into a toolcat or a set up like Neige has. However, for me to make the money I would need, I would need to get around $4/500 per season per customer. And I don't think I could blow through 150 of these, no matter how tightly packed, in 4 hours. 

With all of the arguing going on, it makes me laugh that few have talked about doing it better. Maybe one does need to reinvent the wheel in order to compete.....just sayin'!


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

econ 101 lesson

What your costs are have NOTHING to do with what a job is worth.

If you can't make money at (for example) $25, but the job is only worth $25
guess what?
the problem isn't the customer, it's you, you have to lower your costs.

The business with the lowest costs wins. Not the lowest price, lowest cost.

fuel--get more efficient, cut down the route, specialize in one area, whatever
insurance--not a heck of a lot you can do about this.
taxes--oh taxes have no effect, just ask any politician (sarcasm)

so, your fixed costs are solid, how do YOU get more efficient? driveway only rig? jeeps? tractors? ATV's?, whatever, that's your question to answer.

Prices have not gone up in this industry since I started 20+ years ago, and the dollar is worth less than 1/2 what it was then. 
It's a wal mart nation, better get used to it.

shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to do a resi (average), another 5 minutes to drive to the next one. (at most). that's 6 an hour. At $25/each that's $150/hour per rig.
that's a pretty good ROI.
Cut the windshield time in half to 2.5 minutes to drive to next one, now you're at 8 per hour, that's $200/hour.

I know that's easily obtainable. easily.


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## lawnpro724 (Dec 15, 2010)

White Gardens;1133774 said:


> 35 is my minimum.


Same here but we also include the side walk from driveway to front door for that price.


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## ChicagoPlower (Dec 16, 2005)

LoneCowboy;1202193 said:


> econ 101 lesson
> 
> What your costs are have NOTHING to do with what a job is worth.
> 
> ...


Cudos to you for summing it up perfect. The same can be said about commercial plowing.


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## V_Scapes (Jan 1, 2011)

My lowest is about $47 and my largest is $85. But i offer people full service, driveway, sidewalk and mailbox clearing. for some of them the price might actually be too low but by giving them a full service visit and doing a good job I've retained almost all of my customer for a few years. some of them can only be done with the snowblower but it doesnt bother me. salt applications are $40. I could really care less about doing driveways especially with the size of my rig. i started as a sub this year for $75/hr for a large company. i drive to a lot thats 3 minuets down the road from my house. sometimes i feel like id rather just do that but my driveways bring in good cash. plus it keeps me in contact with customers that I do landscape management for. 
Pricing is going to be different everywhere. I keep my prices high because if we all do then everyone can eat well...but some dont understand that. Theres plenty of guys now with beat up trucks and plows trying to make a living cause the economy **** on us. same thing in the landscape industry, everyone runs around with a mower in their truck trying to pay the bills. nothing wrong with it but it hurts the guys like me who are actually trying to make a solid career out of it. 
it is what it is, just give a price and if they dont like it, be down the road.


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## NLS1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Epic Lawn Care;1176777 said:


> My minimum is $25.00 and my average drivewat takes less then five minutes. So to charge $1.00 per minute on residential would not work for me.
> 
> Commerical thats a different story.





Neige;1177186 said:


> I come on here to share my ideas and how it works for me. Its certainly is not for eveyone, but there are many like me who are doing very well by it. Yes we own all our equipment. Our yearly income is pretty steady regardless how much snow falls. We do have several loans with the bank for the last 2 companies we bought out. In 5 years we will be debt free, unless we decide to get even bigger. I called you out this time because I found your answers very condensending. There are many on here who are trying to make a living, just because they charge 15 bucks a drive, does not necessarly make them a lowballer.





LoneCowboy;1202193 said:


> econ 101 lesson
> 
> What your costs are have NOTHING to do with what a job is worth.
> 
> ...


Lonecowboy-BINGO, well put.

Neige- I for one appreciate your input more than you know, since I am very well aware that you have probably forgotten more about snow service than many will ever know. I admire your business model and am intrigued by your empire made with driveways! Wow and wow! You have figured out how to lower the price enough that people would be crazy not to use you and yet make lots of money and give amazing service. I have spent hours trying to wrap my head around it, and would love to duplicate your business here. For those too dense to see that you make a great living, too bad they must be negative here!

Epic-I agree and we are near each other.

I have a fairly low post count because I simply don't like to debate business. I make up my own mind. I do well and am respected highly by my customers. Always in my mind is to grow our business which it has and will. I have been watching this site for several years now, gleaning information and using some. Amazing how ignorant and hot headed some are, and how professional and helpful others are. To those that are helpful and professional, thank you.

Dan


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## mow4cash (Jan 9, 2009)

Vscapes Great quote"I keep my prices high because if we all do then everyone can eat well...but some dont understand that". Lawn care has really jacked there prices up so im surprised plowing isn't higher. Its funny im moderately high on my charge for snowplowing and moderately low on my lawn cut prices. It seems like plowing prices should be jacked up sky high because for some people it is a necessity.


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

V_Scapes;1205493 said:


> My lowest is about $47 and my largest is $85. But i offer people full service, driveway, sidewalk and mailbox clearing. for some of them the price might actually be too low but by giving them a full service visit and doing a good job I've retained almost all of my customer for a few years. some of them can only be done with the snowblower but it doesnt bother me. salt applications are $40. I could really care less about doing driveways especially with the size of my rig. i started as a sub this year for $75/hr for a large company. i drive to a lot thats 3 minuets down the road from my house. sometimes i feel like id rather just do that but my driveways bring in good cash. plus it keeps me in contact with customers that I do landscape management for.
> Pricing is going to be different everywhere. I keep my prices high because if we all do then everyone can eat well...but some dont understand that. Theres plenty of guys now with beat up trucks and plows trying to make a living cause the economy **** on us. same thing in the landscape industry, everyone runs around with a mower in their truck trying to pay the bills. nothing wrong with it but it hurts the guys like me who are actually trying to make a solid career out of it.
> it is what it is, just give a price and if they dont like it, be down the road.


You get $40 for salting driveways? How big of driveways are you talking about?


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

JayD2;1205883 said:


> You get $40 for salting driveways? How big of driveways are you talking about?


I charge $40 also, its my minimum charge. Then again I have not been called to salt in over 3 years now.


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

Neige;1206236 said:


> I charge $40 also, its my minimum charge. Then again I have not been called to salt in over 3 years now.


Oh, OK, I see....I screwed up my pricing on salt, pretty much giving it to them for cost, boy live and learn. But I only have a few that even want it, so its not that bad. Next year will change it.


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## V_Scapes (Jan 1, 2011)

I really dont know how big the driveways are. but i dont do it for cost, i mark up a bag 3x.


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## jgoetter1 (Feb 23, 2007)

mwadeson;1152079 said:


> we dont do much for private drives so i don't think i have a say in the price. The calls i do get i tell them it is a $30 min. When they act surprised i say it is what it is. I am not out to do this because i enjoy the crappy hours and being out in the freezing cold. I had one guy cancel his contract on us cause he decided he was going to buy a snowblower and do his 1/4 mile long driveway. I was ok with that i just told him that if he needs he has my number. First snow fall was fine second snow fall he calls and decided my price wasn't so bad. I told him we would do it but the first of the year we are doing a price increase. He was ok with that and now wants to sell his brand new snow blower to us.
> 
> It is what it is!!!!


It it what it is? That has to be the all time most annoying overused expression. What the hell does that mean? If it is what it is, what else could it be?


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## NJlandscaper908 (Oct 29, 2010)

$75 base rate then increase it $8-$10 per inch for each inch over 6". This is per event, we will visit as many times as necessary. Also includes, driveway,front steps/walkway & sidewalk in front of house if they have 1.


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## Tubby's Snow Plowing (Dec 13, 2009)

I don't fully understand the thought behind pricing by the inch. Is the client in control of the snowfall accumulation?


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## NJlandscaper908 (Oct 29, 2010)

No, i check the accuweather totals for my area


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## darryl g (Jan 30, 2010)

My minimum for new accounts is $40 for up to 4 inches. I do have some older accounts that I have grandfathered in at $35 and one for an elderly lawn customer that's at $25, but she's at the absolute end of my route and I do her daughter's driveway not far up the road too. I even clean off her car, shovel a path for her little dog to do it's business, and one to her bird feeder. 

My prices include hand shoveling and/or snowblowing in front of the garage and in some cases doing the sidewalk and steps as well. I will spread a small amount of ice melt on the walk and the area near the garage front for free as needed...a small amount being up to a pound or 2. Anything more than that gets billed. I usually only go through one 25 pound bag per storm so no biggie.

My minimum for one time plowing is $75 unless they're a lawn care customer that I don't usually plow, in which case they get the $40 minimum. One timers get done after my regulars are taken care of. In my area, there a lots of guys who say they will plow your driveway...finding those that actually will in a reasonable amount of time is the trick.


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## Blueberry (Feb 5, 2011)

Have you tried to not charge them for sidewalk work, clear the front of mailbox, cleanup for free?


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## ElegantLS (Oct 27, 2015)

10-12 per drive SMH. What a joke! 25-35 is where it should be. Erie contractors need to stand firm in their price points. Dont base rates off what others are charging. Base them off your costs and what you need to make to remain profitable. 25-35 per drive per push is that magic number for most. 10-12 dollars is a marketing scheme to bring in the customers. Im sure service is suffering and costs are through the roof. I know I wouldnt be able to operate at those costs.


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## KildonanSnowRem (Oct 17, 2015)

This was a great read!


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