# gas or deisel



## Mowtivated Lawn (Feb 4, 2009)

I currently own 2003 z71 1500 4.8 liter and am looking to buy a possible 250 0r 350 but the question is gas or diesel. I am looking to get into the plowing business and currently am in the lawn care business. My trailer with equipment weighs around five thousand and it is just eating up my 1500, not made for everyday pulling of that. Diesel get better gas mileage but cost more to maintain and am worried about all the start and stopping while from job to job. I think the gas motor may be better for what I do now but suck that they suck down the gas. Thinking about either a hemi or 6.0 vortec, what do you guys think. Anyone drive a 6.0 or hemi 2500 or 3500 and if so what is your average mileage cause pulling my rig in the summer I was getting about 8.5 mpg. Thanks


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

The most important thing is that you are now moving up in payload capacity which is the biggest difference between the 1/2 tons and above

My 6.0 Diesel gets around 18-19 mpg, normal conditions.

My buddies 5.7 Hemi gets around 12-14 mpg, he got a heavy foot though.

The hemi is a strong motor...but is feels wimpy when compared to my 6.0, which has gobs of power...325hp with 560ft lbs of torque stock.

Like you said though, the diesel takes more maintenance, time and such...I have to warm my truck up for a least 5 min everyday before driving it.


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## KGRlandscapeing (May 2, 2007)

Enless ur pulling 10 k on a day to say thing get a gasser u jump in fire it up and off u go. In the winter u warm the truck up anyway have u ever tryed to get in a truck thats 0 and go for a ride not fun. My buddy was in ATI and they were working on a farm they were putting new fences in in late fall so they needed some help it was cash so i went. I was the only guy with a gasser. I was the closest bunk to the door i had to make sure the generator stayd running so there trucks would stay warm.


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## Fife Lawn&Lane (Jan 20, 2009)

for what you are doing I'd say 3/4 and gas. unless you buy a Dodge then get a diesel.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Get a diesel and make it a Dodge 5.9. There is not more maintanance involved in owning a diesel. I change my oil every 20,000 miles, takes what, 20 minutes? Changes the fuel filter every 10,000 miles or so. Takes 10 minutes or less. And I get 15 mpg average during the lawncare months, including towing time. You will also get much better mileage while plowing, while making much more low end power than any gasser can dream of. Also, a Cummins starts better than the other diesels when it is very cold. That's a fact.


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## rfed32 (Nov 4, 2005)

dude when it comes to plowing id go with the diesel...i was making a v with mine and a buddies plow he has a diesel i dont and his truck was pushing mine...they have the power do push anything when it comes to snow...i say go big or go home...my next truck is a 1ton diesel


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

Definately the diesel. Starting and stoping won't hurt anything, as JDiep said, no more maintenance these days aside from a fuel filter........and of course the Cummins is the only option . As far as the 6.0 Ford getting 18-19MPG's, don't count on it. Cummins, 7.3 PS, and Dmax on the Highway, sure, even more........6.0 Powerstroke daily driving getting that, now that's a good one!


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

tymusicussmileyflagWe have a Dodge 2500HD with 5.7 Hemi. pulls a trailer in the summer 20ft goose loaded with equipment then in the winter a 8.5 V plow. It can plowon par with any Diesel. It has a 4.10 rear end and 6 speed manual . This idea of only a diesel is just the testostorone talking. I also have 6.5 Diesels and plow with them. The gas job is great cuz ya dont have to worry about the -32 Celsius weather we get.


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## bosman (Oct 20, 2008)

I have a 2000 chevy 3/4 w/ a 6.0 gas and get anywhere from 6-12mpg depending on how much weight I have on the trailer. In August of 07 I bought a 2007 chevy Duramax and I can almost make my truck payment with the $ I'm saving in gas. I drive over 100 miles every day and the savings are huge. I use to spend 1200-1500$ a month in gas, now I spend 600-800$ in diesel. Last storm, with a plow on the front, ez dumper trailer and bobcat in tow I averaged over 13 mpg. Completely unloaded on the highway I can get over 20 mpg. Yes, diesel is more than gas, but the power of a diesel is unmatched. My buddies hemi is fast, but he says it'll pass everything but a gas station. You'll spend less time at the pump and more time working. Go with a diesel!


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

Diesel's are nice. I got one because I found a killer deal. Otherwise I would probably have another gasser. For what you are doing, I'd say a gas 3/4ton would be good. But a Diesel makes a difference for plowing.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

augerandblade;743564 said:


> tymusicussmileyflagWe have a Dodge 2500HD with 5.7 Hemi. pulls a trailer in the summer 20ft goose loaded with equipment then in the winter a 8.5 V plow. It can plowon par with any Diesel. It has a 4.10 rear end and 6 speed manual . This idea of only a diesel is just the testostorone talking. I also have 6.5 Diesels and plow with them. The gas job is great cuz ya dont have to worry about the -32 Celsius weather we get.


Hahahahahahhaha lolololololol trying to compare a hemi or a 6.5 diesel to a 5.9 Cummins is the most laughable thing I have ever heard!


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

I own both a Dodge hemi and a Chevy DMax, I honestly prefer the diesel to the gas despite the fact it takes 5 minutes longer to warm up...... It destroys the gas in raw power and is substantially better on fuel mileage.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

Oasis;743693 said:


> I own both a Dodge hemi and a Chevy DMax, I honestly prefer the diesel to the gas despite the fact it takes 5 minutes longer to warm up...... It destroys the gas in raw power and is substantially better on fuel mileage.


Plug it in and it will be 160* when you start it.


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## Mowtivated Lawn (Feb 4, 2009)

*Gas vs Deisel*

Thank you gentleman, very much appreciated. It always seemed diesel were made to run and by me shutting them down after a five minutes drive and starting back up in ten it would burn something up. I think I will get a diesel because better have more then not enough and I never know how much my business may grow or may get a job where I need something to tow a house with, lol. Now I just need to get a dealership to pay off my truck for a trade. Now the question who have had problems with theirs and what one should I get. I know everyone will argue but fact please, lol. Think i may get a dmax or cummins because I have heard the newer ford have had problems and my buddies o5 just blew an injector. Plus not to mention I was supposed to go test an 05 out, did a mechanical report, just had four of eight injectors fixed which can get pretty expensive.Thanks again!


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## Fife Lawn&Lane (Jan 20, 2009)

unfortunately I have to drive a diesel Ford to plow with 06 F350. While I find it has comparable power from 0-15 it falls off quickly after that, and is very noisy/loud.

The Dodge trucks will be more money than a comparable ford/chev but there is good reason for it, Cummins power.


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## fisher guy (Nov 11, 2008)

i have a f-250 6.0L diesel and my boss has a 350 with the 5.4 triton both with 8ft fishers on the front and mine hands down out pushes his truck and thats from my bosses mouth. and thats with a poly spreader on the back half loaded and his truck loaded with tailgate spreader and completly loaded with bagged salt. as far as pulling i can pull way more then him his truck strains with a JD 35z mini track hoe when mine pulls it like theres nothing there as far as hauling is concered i overload my truck big time (4,000lb) of sand salt mix plus 550 for the spreader itself so i get about 10 mpg and his loaded down gets about 11mpg so my opinion get the diesel hey so what u gotta plug it in for what it can do its worth it maintenance is about same as a gasser except i change my oil ever 5-6000 miles it will last longer and be more reliable then any gasser just about if u treat it right


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

On my Dodge diesel (in sig) the fuel pump failed at 55,000 miles. This was replaced by the dealer, free of charge, including the tow. Covered by warranty. The fuel pump on the 03 - 04.5 trucks are known to be weak, but once they die, they are put in the tank under warranty, and do much better. 

Also, at about 60,000 miles I had the front and rear u-joints replaced, also under warranty. Not unexpected for a truck that spends its life towing and plowing.


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## blizzardsnow (Feb 3, 2009)

> Also, a Cummins starts better than the other diesels when it is very cold. That's a fact


Not true. We have '01 and '02 chevys with LB7 Duramaxes. When it was -5 with the wind in the grill, they'll start every time without the block heater plugged in. The '02's block heater cord is still zip-tied to the inside of the front fender from the manufacturer. The '01 has 205,000 miles on the original glow plugs. 
The air intake heater on the Cummins work great untill the temp REALLY bottoms out, then you have to have something to get the cylinder wall warmer.


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

JDiepstra;743685 said:


> Hahahahahahhaha lolololololol trying to compare a hemi or a 6.5 diesel to a 5.9 Cummins is the most laughable thing I have ever heard!


Laughter is good for ya, you have me to thank. Just to clarify Im comparing the plowing abilityof a 5.7 and a 6.5 to the Cummins. I am aware of the great pulling power of a Dodge Cummins combo. Often IT HAPPENS that a newbie will come on a thread ask a question and some of the posts dont reflect the inquiry ,especially the situation the person is describing. So if hes inquiring only about his driveway and a few other small jobs, dont get on the thread suggesting he needs t o spend big bucks and be fully equipped as if he was in the commercial end of it. (And JDiepstra (fellow dutchman) I'm not singling you out in this post, its just that your comment got my attention,ussmileyflagtymusic


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

blizzardsnow;744101 said:


> Not true. We have '01 and '02 chevys with LB7 Duramaxes. When it was -5 with the wind in the grill, they'll start every time without the block heater plugged in. The '02's block heater cord is still zip-tied to the inside of the front fender from the manufacturer. The '01 has 205,000 miles on the original glow plugs.
> The air intake heater on the Cummins work great untill the temp REALLY bottoms out, then you have to have something to get the cylinder wall warmer.


Ok whatever but a Cummins, in general, will outstart a Duramax or a Powerstroke, at any equal temperature.


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## 24v6spd (Jan 18, 2009)

For the longevity and durability go with the diesel. They are more expensive but payoff in the long run. Also they have better resale. I would strongly reccomend the Cummins.


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## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

I have both hemi and 5.9 cummins.

I sell the hemi for what i have in it, and the CTD well let just say it is not "For sale" because you can go buy one from a dealer cheaper then you get mine from me.

we go over this same topic ever few weeks here. 
If your buying a ford or GM buy a gasser, they wear out and cheap replacement parts
Dodge gas trucks seem to get 1-2 mpg less then ford gm trucks but have a little more power.

as far as diesel go there is one word you need to remember CUMMINS
Ford 6.OH L and 6.4L (has isssues) GM D-max (don't have much more power then the GM gasser)


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## docsgmc (Dec 2, 2007)

like i have staid in the past...... i had an f-350 gas and had to fill 2x as much as my 250 diesel......if you are going to work the truck get a diesel...


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## blizzardsnow (Feb 3, 2009)

Something else to consider with a diesel equipped with an automatic. Our Dmax trucks have transmission intercoolers, and depending on what your conditions are in your area, we get alot of freezing rain. When that rain comes down on top of 4 inches of snow it effectively makes it like plowing clay. Transmissions CAN AND WILL get hot. The intercooler saved me a tranny 2 weeks ago.... just food for thought.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

I prefer a diesel

But with all your other start up costs gas might be the way to go just to conserve cash


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## 7.3 Plower (Jan 19, 2009)

The 5.9 Cummins is without doubt the best diesel ever put in a pickup truck.

The only problem is the pickup truck it is typically put in.

Dodges use thinner steel for the body and tend to wear out pretty quickly.

The PowerStrokes aren't as reliable as they used to be, however. 

The 6.0 PowerStroke is a good motor if you get an 06-07. The 6.4 was killed by the EPA before it was even born.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the best PowerStroke diesel Ford put in a truck. The mighty 7.3L diesel. The 7.3 was put in trucks from 1999 to early 2003 when the 6.0 was released. 

Keep in mind I own a 7.3 PowerStroke.

I know a guy who put a rod through the block of his 7.3 because he had it tuned to make more HP than the engine could handle. He has since dropped a 5.9 Cummins into his Ford. It is most definitely the best of both worlds.

The minimal cons of a diesel are FAR outweighed by the pros. Just make sure you have an extension cord and an outlet handy to plug your block heater in. 

The diesel will last longer, make more power, and burn less fuel while doing it.

The only advantages to gas are that it'll start up without being plugged in and it's cheaper to buy at first.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

7.3 Plower;744545 said:


> The 5.9 Cummins is without doubt the best diesel ever put in a pickup truck.
> 
> *The only problem is the pickup truck it is typically put in.*
> Dodges use thinner steel for the body and tend to wear out pretty quickly.
> ...


Damn 7.3, why did you have to go and say that!?!?!? JDiepstra is going to be allllll flustered, just wait!

Also, not true on the 06-07 6.0's. They all had the same issues. I just VIN checked an 06 I'm looking at. It had head gaskets, turbo, etc already before 10k miles. I've said it plenty of times. If you're going to buy a 6.0, buy one with miles. Once fixed right, they are great engines.

Lastly, and not to bring up other thread's discussion here, but it's funny how no one gives credit to GM or the Dmax............namely b/c not too many are educated in them so they are either scared of them, or don't have (or know) anything good (or bad) to say so they clam up. Lemme guess, LB7 injectors............OOOOO! Do a little research and there's a lot to learn. The new Cummins is catching up quick, especially with the Aisin, but give others a chance for God's sake.


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## TonyS (Dec 10, 2008)

Get a duramax, you won't regret it.


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## 7.3 Plower (Jan 19, 2009)

My dad has an 06 6.0 and it's been a good truck for the 23k we've put on it. It's needed 1 injector, but that's because dad hadn't given me a chance to drain the water off his HFCM and change his filters. I told him if he didn't get the water out he'd ruin an injector, but he didn't listen until he'd already ruined an injector.


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## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

Mowtivated Lawn;743772 said:


> Thank you gentleman, very much appreciated. It always seemed diesel were made to run and by me shutting them down after a five minutes drive and starting back up in ten it would burn something up. I think I will get a diesel because better have more then not enough and I never know how much my business may grow or may get a job where I need something to tow a house with, lol.


Running a diesel like that is a great way to burn something up, unless you never ever get on the turbo. You also won't get the super duper milage the diesel heads keep telling you about. and remember they have weight distrobution issues with plows if you belive in wight ratings an all like effective braking. diesels are great long haul trucks but not worth the extra up front cost and agrivation in your situation IMO.

If I was towing a 10K bobcat 100 miles each and every day, then I most definatly would own a duramax but for the short trip and infrequent heavy(10k) hauls I do my 02 2500HD with a 6.0 gas has never let me down and it gives me 11-12 MPG average with about 800-1000 pounds of extra weight always on board. I have an 8'6" fisher EZ-V and I have never run out of power pushing snow (traction yes power no)

Get what ever you want! but I can't say I have ever really wished I spent the $7,000 extra dollars it cost to have a louder, more expensive to fuel(rember diesel prices of $5/gallon), harder to start when its cold truck.


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## blizzardsnow (Feb 3, 2009)

> GM D-max (don't have much more power then the GM gasser)


Wow, you must just be trying to start a fight. No one says anything that ignorant without trying to agitate, right? Last I checked Duramax was on top of the market for hp, torque, and most units to 200,000 without a catastrophic failure.
And as far as the injector thing goes, Bosch put a 250,000 mile warranty on the LB7 injectors, because they knew it would be a problem. Did Ford do that with the turbo they couldn't keep under the hood?



> The 5.9 Cummins is without doubt the best diesel ever put in a pickup truck.


I've heard a lot of guys say that, but statistically after they revamped the design, they started falling apart.

Maybe a better question to everyone is what is the best combination in a truck? For all of your arguments about the motors (most are well founded), the Duramax/Allison combination is unbeatable. Any takers?


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## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

7.3L powerstroke is 10 years out of date that was reason i made no mention of it. 
it was and is a really good motor ( i know it don't hold up to numbers of a 5.9L, But it would be my 3rd choice 5.9L then 6.7L and then 7.3L



blizzardsnow;744793 said:


> I've heard a lot of guys say that, but statistically after they revamped the design, they started falling apart.
> 
> Maybe a better question to everyone is what is the best combination in a truck? For all of your arguments about the motors (most are well founded), the Duramax/Allison combination is unbeatable. Any takers?


what the 6.7L cummins? it has dropped a few mpg over the 5.9L but that is about it...

where the 5.9L and 6.7L cummins motors differ from powerstoke and D maxi is 5.9L 6.7L are built for the med duty trucks (and no i am not talking about 5500 trucks) in line 6. both the D max and powerstroke are build for light duty trucks (IH will not even put the 6.4L they build in med duty truck) wedge V8 style motor that is very good when using gas but is not real good for diesel...

ya really want to get to the truth all 3 use the same ga sheet metal. fords frames are stronger dodge motors are stronger and AAM axles are stronger. Gm has the allison tranmission but Ford has the best automatic transmission.


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## 7.3 Plower (Jan 19, 2009)

The 7.3 was put in Medium duty trucks. It's just rebadged as the International T444E. I was very tempted to buy an entire schoolbus for 500 bucks at a recent auction because it had a T444E in it. Aka. 7.3L PowerStroke. 

I'm not arguing that the Cummins is a more durable engine than the PowerStroke, but for just plowing there's not a huge difference as far as I'm concerned. Now for hauling a fully loaded 5th wheel trailer I'd want to have a stick shift Cummins.

Not trying to start a pissing match of Cummins V PowerStroke here. Just stating that it was, in fact, put in medium duty applications as well.

And the 7.3 was put in new trucks up until 2007 in Australia. Their emissions standards didn't kill it off until then. In truth there was nothing wrong with the 7.3 that it was discontinued. It just didn't meet new emissions standards.

Dang EPA is killing modern diesels.


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## blizzardsnow (Feb 3, 2009)

> Dang EPA is killing modern diesels.


I think that is something everyone can agree on.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

7.3 Plower;744545 said:


> The 5.9 Cummins is without doubt the best diesel ever put in a pickup truck.
> 
> The only problem is the pickup truck it is typically put in.
> 
> ...


What are you talking about the problem is the truck the Cummins is put in? That isa blanket statement with no proof behind it whatsoever. The sheetmetal on the Dodge is the same as that of the Chevy or Ford (forgot which one at the moment) so that is out the window. You need to get with the times and realize the 3rd gen Dodges are doing just fine.



got-h2o;744592 said:


> Damn 7.3, why did you have to go and say that!?!?!? JDiepstra is going to be allllll flustered, just wait!
> 
> .


Didn't want to disappoint you.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

jdiepstra;745199 said:


> Didn't want to disappoint you.


lol!!!!!! :d


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## BMWSTUD25 (Aug 21, 2008)

RODHALL;744913 said:


> 7.3L powerstroke is 10 years out of date that was reason i made no mention of it.
> it was and is a really good motor ( i know it don't hold up to numbers of a 5.9L, But it would be my 3rd choice 5.9L then 6.7L and then 7.3L


Just my two cents, I love my 7.3 in my 2002 F-550. I really wanted a newer truck than and 02 but I really cant say I've ever heard of any legitamate complaints about those diesels. It was the first thing I looked for when buying my last truck. Too bad it is getting "dated" but its still a great motor IMO. and to Post # 1 unless you've got extra moneypayup to spend up front on a nice diesel, a nice 3/4(pick your brand) with one of their big V8's should do you quite well! it did me xysport


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## m.williams (Jan 17, 2009)

The Duramax/Alison is by far the best combo out of the big three all though the powerstroke is a strong setup, i've heard manyabd things about Cummins.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

m.williams;746600 said:


> The Duramax/Alison is by far the best combo out of the big three all though the powerstroke is a strong setup, i've heard manyabd things about Cummins.


I agree about D/A being the best, mainly personal preference, definately some more to it though. But, what bad things about the Cummins? #53 blocks? KDP? Lift pumps? All outdated stuff. Fuel and timing and the old ones held their own. HG's and studs were a breeze if you wanted to do more, and the turbo is just sitting there off to the side begging for replacement. The newer ones seem pretty problem free too, especially in stock form. I'm just not a big Dodge fan, don't feel as comfortable in one I guess. It's not the Cummins fault what truck they were put in, nor what trans backed them up . The new ones are nice. I may even buy one if the price was right............but not to replace a GM.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

m.williams;746600 said:


> The Duramax/Alison is by far the best combo out of the big three all though the powerstroke is a strong setup, i've heard manyabd things about Cummins.






got-h2o;746648 said:


> I agree about D/A being the best, mainly personal preference, definately some more to it though. But, what bad things about the Cummins? #53 blocks? KDP? Lift pumps? All outdated stuff. Fuel and timing and the old ones held their own. HG's and studs were a breeze if you wanted to do more, and the turbo is just sitting there off to the side begging for replacement. The newer ones seem pretty problem free too, especially in stock form. I'm just not a big Dodge fan, don't feel as comfortable in one I guess. It's not the Cummins fault what truck they were put in, nor what trans backed them up . The new ones are nice. I may even buy one if the price was right............but not to replace a GM.


Thank you for pointing out that all the problems people point out about Dodge are things of the past. Many people here seem to still be living in the 90's. And no matter what anyone says, all three brands of diesel are struggling with the new emissions equipment regulations.


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## ducatirider944 (Feb 25, 2008)

cretebaby;744506 said:


> I prefer a diesel
> 
> But with all your other start up costs gas might be the way to go just to conserve cash


I agree with Cretebaby, gas might be a better truck for start up for you. Wither you buy Ford, Chevy, or Dodge, get their bigger gas engine, the small v-8 just work to much, and you will only get maybe 1 or 2 mpg better unloaded. As soon as you put weight in the bed or hook up to a trailer, the bigger motor will get almost double the mpg that the small v-8 do.



JDiepstra;745199 said:


> What are you talking about the problem is the truck the Cummins is put in? That is a blanket statement with no proof behind it whatsoever. The sheetmetal on the Dodge is the same as that of the Chevy or Ford (forgot which one at the moment) so that is out the window. You need to get with the times and realize the 3rd gen Dodges are doing just fine.
> 
> Didn't want to disappoint you.


Note the red, isn't that what you do in about 95% of your posts?? I think I have asked you to post facts in the past that weren't my brothers, wife's dad's dogs breeders parents uncles nieces husbands best friends truck was a Ford and it was a P.O.S.


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## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

JDiepstra;746741 said:


> Thank you for pointing out that all the problems people point out about Dodge are things of the past. Many people here seem to still be living in the 90's. And no matter what anyone says, all three brands of diesel are struggling with the new emissions equipment regulations.


if were pointing out problems with the 90"s trucks lets not forget the GM 6.5L and all it's issues....

i do not know if the emissions regulations differ but my 05 5.9L HO and 09 6.7L that i drove for almost 2 weeks seemed to have the same power, torque was down a little, and fuel milage was 1-2 mpg on 09 but some of that may be my 5.9L is broken in and the 6.7L was 5000 miles when i got it.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

THEGOLDPRO;748132 said:


> awww man it was worth a shot im just trying to beat it into your head about how annoying you are on this forum and how no one likes you, im sorry its true we dont like you. and by we i clearly mean all of plowsite. all you do is try and drill YOUR preferences on everyone else. we get it you like the cummins. do you understand yet??? or are you still confused?? pull your head out of your azz and relize we dont care.


Trust me I've heard from many people who don't like you!


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## Mid-Ohio Scaper (Aug 17, 2008)

You know, plowsite wouldn't be half as entertaining as it is without Mr. JDiepstra. Weather I'm involved in the banter or not, I see this mans name and I can't help but read the thread to see who he's pis*ed off, or who doesn't like him now. He never fails to put a smile on my face! 
Keep it up my good man, you make plowsite just that much more!


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Hey thanks. I believe you and I have even had our disagreements, but like men, can move on and get along just fine.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

JDiepstra;748298 said:


> Hey thanks. I believe you and I have even had our disagreements, but like men, can move on and get along just fine.


Funny b/c I was thinking the same thing! Yes, we all have our opinions, some stronger than others , but in the end it usually works out without making it a huge pi$$ing match. Diepstra and I don't agree on everything, but it sure is fun sometimes. Some people just need to quit being so uptight I guess .


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