# workers comp request with contract



## mpgall26 (Aug 19, 2011)

looking for some advice on a contract issue that was unexpected, i'm obviously new to commercial plowing. My new company was awarded a contract today with the request of the condo to be named on liability insurance, no big deal. Then requested workers comp copies too. I am the only person and dont have workers comp. I assume they will think I'm a joke without employees on my payroll and not sure how others have handled this. I honesty am only gonna grab a couple neighborhood kids for sidewalk crew.
Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

what are you going to do when one of the neighborhood kids falls on a slippery sidewalk cracks open his skull and his parents sue you?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

mpgall26;1330901 said:


> . I honesty am only gonna grab a couple neighborhood kids for sidewalk crew..


And they are required to have WC. So are you but you can ask the insurer to allow you to opt out as the owner (you typically need to have health insurance to do so.)

You pay WC based on a percentage of wages paid, those costs should have been considered when bidding the job.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

I love posts like these. Get workers comp. If the person works for you for money, you are required by law to have it. The dept. of industrial accidents is all over the place. They have stopped my guys three times. They check on my policy and they are on their way. Huge fines if you dont have it.....not in the hundreds from what I hear.

The condo association is checking on it so they dont get sued when one of your shovelers splits his head open like longae said.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

nepatsfan;1330937 said:


> I love posts like these. Get workers comp. If the person works for you for money, you are required by law to have it. The dept. of industrial accidents is all over the place. They have stopped my guys three times. They check on my policy and they are on their way. Huge fines if you dont have it.....not in the hundreds from what I hear.
> 
> The condo association is checking on it so they dont get sued when one of your shovelers splits his head open like longae said.


In Canada if you solely do the work you would be deemed an independant operator and not eligible for WC so why pay into it. You can get a clearance certificate from WC to that effect. By getting someone else to do a portion of the work ie: student/part timer/wife/grandma you become an employer and need WC.


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## mpgall26 (Aug 19, 2011)

ok ok i didn't realize I had to have it. I thought mostly of paying someone to help who has their own vehicle insurance and my GL would be sufficient. I didn't take into account for shovelers.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Somewhere there's a a guy who bid based on adult wages with all the attached taxes insurance, etc calling you a lowballer


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Hire some guys from labor ready and have labor ready fax you over their worker comp info... Just inform the condo assc that you sub out the shoveling and show them labor readys cert......but you better use them if you go this route as others have stated above....big fines....


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

basher;1331013 said:


> Somewhere there's a a guy who bid based on adult wages with all the attached taxes insurance, etc calling you a lowballer


Didn't you read the memo,it's not called "lowballing" it's now referred to as" bid challenged"


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

mpgall26;1330901 said:


> l I assume they will think I'm a joke without employees on my payroll and not sure how others have handled this. I honesty am only gonna grab a couple neighborhood kids for sidewalk crew.


I assume they are a joke for not pre qualifying you and awarding you this work. I also assume you are correct in your assumption.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

grandview;1331016 said:


> Didn't you read the memo,it's not called "lowballing" it's now referred to as" bid challenged"


Thanks I missed the memo, sometimes I'm politically challenged
My old Pappy always called it "Leaving money on the table"


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## mpgall26 (Aug 19, 2011)

I was going to do this property myself, no need for comp. I suppose as a new guy I overlooked the fact that big storms MAY require more people and comp was needed. I planned on having help from another company in these situations. Lesson learned. As for lowballing, I have 1-2GL, 1M-vehicle, LLC ect. So I think I am ahead of the curve by comparison to the lowballer. Simply a new guy trying to get started, and no other employees.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Don't get your panties in a bunch we're just messing around. No really knows what you charged so you could be making a ton.

If you search the site and as you hang around you'll see this is a common post and a question that gets asked a lot so we tend to joke around to kill the boredom of repeated typing the same answer. Lots of guys think this is a quick way to easy money not understanding the costs and work involved, time spent staking (and the cost of stakes,) repairing landscaping and other possible damage, wear and tear on vehicle, the need for GL, WC and commercial auto insurance, cost of materials and repair inventory for midnight in the parking lot repairs.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Sorry, not a great backstroke.

You knew going into this the need (and your plan) for a walk crew.



mpgall26;1330901 said:


> I honesty am only gonna grab a couple neighborhood kids for sidewalk crew.
> Thanks in advance for any advice.


You're welcome.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

If its like any condo I've ever bid or worked for you can most likely say good bye to the contract. They should have pre-qualified you before they wasted your time. I realize your just starting out but not having employee's, as much as a pita they can be, not having any limits you some times. Trust me, condo places can be one of the best or one of the worst places to do! Your literally trying to please everyone all the time.


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## mpgall26 (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback. I had all my ducks in line with insurance planning to do this myself. They assumed I would have employees with me,which they should, and we never specifically spoke about it. I'm sure they didn't expect me to tackle an acre myself, although that is my start up plan.
Frustrating, I know I can do this property pretty easily myself.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

Just get comp....it wont be a huge out of pocket expense without a lot of employees. Just tell them you have very limited help and there is a minimum you pay based upon how much money you spend. I do mine through paychex and pay it weekly. Each guy gets a check and they take the appropriate amount out every week. You will fall under the minimum and get charged accordingly.


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## mpgall26 (Aug 19, 2011)

interesting, thanks


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

If you truely think you can do this without employees...then do it


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## mpgall26 (Aug 19, 2011)

Actually turned down 2 bigger contracts since I wasn't properly prepared to add employees and don't really understand the sub game(or trust it). Other small ones I can do myself and hopefully in the off season get better educated with properly employing people. Spoke with "paychex" and meeting this week to set up accounts, just in case. They do absolutely everything from taxes to comp. They say, just a phone call once a week and payroll is done with taxes,comp,etc paid. They do the account for the winter then start it back up next season.
Thanks NEPATSFAN. I'll buy ya a beer someday if i'm in Franklin.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Mr.Markus;1330969 said:


> In Canada if you solely do the work you would be deemed an independant operator and not eligible for WC so why pay into it. You can get a clearance certificate from WC to that effect. By getting someone else to do a portion of the work ie: student/part timer/wife/grandma you become an employer and need WC.


They do not issue clearance letters for free. You or well I know I have to pay $100min for them to issue a letter to say I am in good standings.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Grassman09;1334669 said:


> They do not issue clearance letters for free. You or well I know I have to pay $100min for them to issue a letter to say I am in good standings.


I get 4-5 clearance letters a year and have never paid.


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

mpgall26;1331117 said:


> They assumed I would have employees with me,which they should, and we never specifically spoke about it. I'm sure they didn't expect me to tackle an acre myself, although that is my start up plan.


No, they didn't assume anything, they're simply protecting themselves. Pretty standard for any property professionally managed to ensure you have GL, Auto, and Work Comp. By requiring you to have work comp, they're ensuring that you and anyone working for you are covered in the event someone gets hurt, and aren't going to go after their liability insurance. You can get a work comp policy that excludes a sole proprietor (assuming you're a sole prop or LLC) for a few hundred $ (in MN anyway, every state is different). By doing so, you're reassuring them that they're not going to be on the hook if you or anyone you hire get hurt. Trust me, no customer wants to hear that you're a one man show, and nothing screams one man show louder than not having WC. I'd get a policy if you want to hold onto the contract, get it ASAP, and get the certificate to them ASAP as if it's a routine request (which it will be if you take on more of this type of property).


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## goel (Nov 23, 2010)

Mr.Markus;1334727 said:


> I get 4-5 clearance letters a year and have never paid.


You are an independant contractor.

Grassman is talking about the minimum $100 per year charge for having employee's, but it does not take many hours nowadays with the rates.


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