# Who's ready for a break in the snow??????????????



## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

I am, I am, ME ME ME!!!!!

Ready for a day or 2 to not have to be out working first thing and get some paperwork done


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## myzx6 (Nov 17, 2013)

Haven't gotten nearly enough in new England yet. Really hoping to feel the way you do by the end of next month, so does my bank account


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

JimMarshall;1729069 said:


> I am, I am, ME ME ME!!!!!
> 
> Ready for a day or 2 to not have to be out working first thing and get some paperwork done


Take a break at Krispy Kreames and have lunch at Chick Filet


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## BC Handyman (Dec 15, 2010)

Not I, I'm still waiting for winter to begin, strange year so far for me.


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## 2006Sierra1500 (Dec 28, 2011)

Nope, next two weeks are looking pretty good for New England. Been snowless for a while, bring it on!


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Been in AZ for two weeks.....enough of this 70F stuff!

Left chicago, it was -10, can't wait to get back!


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

1olddogtwo;1729252 said:


> Been in AZ for two weeks.....enough of this 70F stuff!
> 
> Left chicago, it was -10, can't wait to get back!


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

Ready?

Ready to go out again. We never get to much snow. We never even get enough snow.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I was ready for a break a month ago. 

I think I've had 8 or 9 full nights' sleep in the past month and a half.


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm ready for spring...

Customers need a break so the can pay there dam invoices....
I think any February invoices i wont see till late spring maybe summer...


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## stone74 (Nov 15, 2013)

Bring on spring already, way to much snow here already.
Most snow since I started back in 2007.....and the dam winds blowing all the stuff around. Set monthly prices here and it's costing me way too much....


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

32vld;1729433 said:


> Ready?
> 
> Ready to go out again. We never get to much snow. We never even get enough snow.


Move to NW PA, you'll change your tune


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

A break will come, it's called summer.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SnoFarmer;1729498 said:


> A break will come, it's called summer.


Not everybody lives in the Great White North, eh.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Been on a 2 1/2 week break here, thought we were clear for the next week. Coastal storm is sneaking in out of nowhere for tues pm. Oh well! Back in the saddle! For some reason winter seems to be going by very quickly this year, my s.a.d. hasn't reared it's ugly head so far, well maybe a little  About 8 more weeks to go.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

SnoFarmer;1729498 said:


> A break will come, it's called summer.


I'm so busy my head spins during the summer, winter is supposed to be my break.


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

JimMarshall;1729485 said:


> Move to NW PA, you'll change your tune


Not sure where you're at Jim but we haven't plowed in Erie in about two weeks. I'm ready for some snow but doubt we'll see much since the lake is frozen over.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

No kidding, Erie froze over?

Kinda wish Lake MI would.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

I don't like the large amounts of snow but I'd take 2-4 inches on a daily basis.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

peteo1;1729746 said:


> Not sure where you're at Jim but we haven't plowed in Erie in about two weeks. I'm ready for some snow but doubt we'll see much since the lake is frozen over.


I'm in Oil City Pete.

We haven't plowed either, but have been getting a coating - 1" and needing to go out and salt almost daily......


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

oh well salting is even easier. I'd definitely go out daily for salting.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

yardguy28;1729781 said:


> oh well salting is even easier. I'd definitely go out daily for salting.


You're nuts. And must be by yourself.

2 events a week is plenty. Throw in a third every now and then.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

Havnt seen snow since the 3rd. Bring it on please


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

yardguy28;1729781 said:


> oh well salting is even easier. I'd definitely go out daily for salting.





Mark Oomkes;1729916 said:


> You're nuts. And must be by yourself.
> 
> 2 events a week is plenty. Throw in a third every now and then.


I'm pretty sure that the differences that we are seeing in opinions is a "Party Line" thing between big companies and small.


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

I'm enjoying a much needed no snow day in Central Pa. I don't ever remember such an early start and not letting up all the way through mid January. Not complaining. It is taking a toll on me. Another little one on its way tonight.


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## snow4me (Oct 8, 2008)

Yeah I could use a break and some trustworthy employees. I have 4 trucks and 2 guys Saturday no call and no showed on me. I had to plow 2 routes and manage the biz while doing double the work. 

The only good thing was the snow stopped at 6pm so I was able to bust azz and get everyone plowed by 8am Sunday morning.

The bad thing I was up at 6am the day before changing gear lube in both diffs and the T-case of one truck and then loading all the salt and snow blowers into the 4 trucks right up until 6pm. 

Bottom line is I'm making a lot of $ but I'm getting too damn old for this crap! I would rather be complaining about too much work than too little like the last two years. Feel for the guys who aren't getting any snow this winter...hang in there brothers it'll come your way eventually!


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

I could go either way. We have been getting a lot of 2-3 inch events and its not been horrible. Other than one break down (the plow, not me) things are going smooth. I do feel like since Nov. 16th I have been non stop go go go. We moved into our new house out in the country on the 16th and the snow started with in a few days of moving in, so needless to say, between my day job, plowing and a week and a half trip to NC and FL, we are still not completely moved in. I am excited for spring just so I can spend some more time out in the barn, turning into a work shop, complete with a twin post lift, but there is a fair amount of work to get that put in.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

JimMarshall;1729955 said:


> I'm pretty sure that the differences that we are seeing in opinions is a "Party Line" thing between big companies and small.


salting and snow plowing is no different than cutting grass and doing leaf clean ups.

i could do snow and salt 5-6 days a week 8-10 hours a day just like mowing and doing leaf clean ups.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

yardguy28;1730097 said:


> salting and snow plowing is no different than cutting grass and doing leaf clean ups.
> 
> i could do snow and salt 5-6 days a week 8-10 hours a day just like mowing and doing leaf clean ups.


How big is your operation?


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

i'm a solo operation.


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## CHCSnowman (Nov 11, 2006)

yardguy28;1730097 said:


> salting and snow plowing is no different than cutting grass and doing leaf clean ups.
> 
> i could do snow and salt 5-6 days a week 8-10 hours a day just like mowing and doing leaf clean ups.


I am with you. As long as the checks keep flowing....I don't mind plowing. I am just a sub running 3-4 trucks, I may not be so froggy if I had to bill, collect, answer calls, etc.

My trucks and drivers keep me busy, but my boss has 60-70 trucks and 200 guys to manage, plus sale, bill, collect, pay subs, answer phones...what a PITA that must be.


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## m.williams (Jan 17, 2009)

Send your snow this way, haven't gotten anything but rain in like 3 weeks.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

yardguy28;1730108 said:


> i'm a solo operation.


And there's the difference. I am not. After I'm done in the field, whether its one hour or 40, I still have 30-40 hours of paperwork and office work to do.


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

I have a lull in snow here too. Yet keeping myself a little busy. Built a set of wings for my main truck's plow, backup truck has a set of buyers wings on it already. It looks like the next few days will be snow free too, so might get those extra backup lights installed too.


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## indplstim (Dec 4, 2008)

JimMarshall;1730139 said:


> And there's the difference. I am not. After I'm done in the field, whether its one hour or 40, I still have 30-40 hours of paperwork and office work to do.


sounds like you need to hire someone


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

indplstim;1730182 said:


> sounds like you need to hire someone


There are already 2 other dedicated office workers


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

JimMarshall;1730139 said:


> And there's the difference. I am not. After I'm done in the field, whether its one hour or 40, I still have 30-40 hours of paperwork and office work to do.


and a solo operation doesn't have paperwork and office work to do?

who do you think does all that paperwork and office work?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

yardguy28;1730097 said:


> salting and snow plowing is no different than cutting grass and doing leaf clean ups.
> 
> i could do snow and salt 5-6 days a week 8-10 hours a day just like mowing and doing leaf clean ups.


Snow is nothing like mowing.

Especially if you are managing multiple crews.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

yardguy28;1730662 said:


> and a solo operation doesn't have paperwork and office work to do?
> 
> who do you think does all that paperwork and office work?


I'm saying you don't have it on anywhere near the scale that I do.

On top of that, our winter here started so abruptly that we never got anything done maintenance wise. Our mowers and other equipment haven't been serviced and winterized, the shop hasn't been cleaned up. I have remodeling and organization to do..... Winter is supposed to be my slow time, when I do things around the shop we don't have time to do in spring/summer.

And I agree with Mark. Managing this operation in the winter is way worse/more stressful than in the summer.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

I think plowing time = a multiple of "normal" work hours. I've worked 16 hr days doing contracting work and been fine. Plowing seems to catch up to you after multiple events. Can't remember ever having hallucinations ,losing 10 lbs ,and literally crying and weeping from lack of sleep ( maybe I am insane after all) except when plowing! Gotta go get ready,7-10"er is hours away,gotta take my meds and find my crying towel Next month I'll be crying all the way to the bankpayup


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hours are different. Amount of work required is different. Wondering how much work there will be is different. Wondering if you will be plowing and salting or just salting. What will the timing be? What will break. If something does break, how are we going to get everything done in time? 

Grass is easy. It grows, you mow, you go home. Hours are normal. It might grow a lot or a little. You might be able to skip some. You might have to double cut, but it doesn't double the amount of time required. And in all reality, if someone doesn't get their lawn done today, there is always tomorrow. There are not near the time constraints on mowing as their is plowing and salting. 

Mowing and plowing are not even remotely similar in the amount of stress or planning or prep or timing.


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## CHCSnowman (Nov 11, 2006)

The guys I work for said they hope it snows everyday. They are already at 20% above average winter income....and we got a lot of winter left.

Our operation runs like a swiss clock. We have a good office and shop staff and they all know what their job is. Mechanic is always on duty in snow. Same guys do same routes every snow.......hope we get called out later. Be safe.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

well for me, the way I run my operation and the types of clients I have they are very similar. 

90% of all my business (mowing and snow removal) are senior citizens. so for some snow storms if I can't get to them the same day there really IS always tomorrow. 

I do know plenty of guys who do snow removal with multipul employees and they seem to do it like clock work. not saying that's the case for all but it's what I see in my neck of the woods. 

why waste time worrying over things you can't control? the storm will come when it comes and stop when it stops. whatever is gonna break will break when it breaks and you deal with it then. have all your ducks in a row and a great backup plan and you will just keep trucking on. 

it also helps to work for people who understand your only human and can only do so much and no amount of money is worth anyone's safety.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

yardguy28;1730864 said:


> it also helps to work for people who understand your only human and can only do so much and no amount of money is worth anyone's safety.


That's the difference, bigger operations have larger liability. You're talking about your safety and the other companies are worried about the safety of the people at their lots. You can wait that's great for you, we break down and the lot isn't clear that company could have a s&f or could be forced to close costing hundreds of thousands in losses.

I agree with Mark, I could live with one or two plows a week along with salting. Living on site all week would get very old.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

yardguy28;1730864 said:


> well for me, the way I run my operation and the types of clients I have they are very similar.
> 
> 90% of all my business (mowing and snow removal) are senior citizens. so for some snow storms if I can't get to them the same day there really IS always tomorrow.
> 
> ...


I do and they are understanding. Our last heavy snowfall and cold outbreak, we had numerous customers start off by saying how appreciative they were of our work and when we had time to take care of this or that.

Although it is kind of difficult to tell a hospital with a 24 hour ER that "tough crap, we're tired and broken down, you're on your own." 

You are looking at this through a very narrow scope and not understanding the complexity of what a multiple truck operation involves. None of my customers knew about the breakdowns. Nobody but me and some of my employees knew about them all. And since we were done by 8, everything did appear to go like clockwork. It sure didn't behind the scenes. And I'd bet you a hundred bucks all those guys you're talking about have the exact same thoughts, concerns, worries as I do. And Jim.

Ask those guys


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jrs.landscaping;1730871 said:


> That's the difference, bigger operations have larger liability. You're talking about your safety and the other companies are worried about the safety of the people at their lots. You can wait that's great for you, we break down and the lot isn't clear that company could have a s&f or could be forced to close costing hundreds of thousands in losses.
> 
> I agree with Mark, I could live with one or two plows a week along with salting. Living on site all week would get very old.


This is a good point. With JIT inventorying and shipping, a customer that doesn't get done can not only lose millions of dollars in revenue they can also be fined by their supplier.


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## potskie (Feb 9, 2011)

Mark Oomkes;1730885 said:


> I do and they are understanding. Our last heavy snowfall and cold outbreak, we had numerous customers start off by saying how appreciative they were of our work and when we had time to take care of this or that.
> 
> Although it is kind of difficult to tell a hospital with a 24 hour ER that "tough crap, we're tired and broken down, you're on your own."
> 
> ...


This is all soo true and why I enjoy being a one man occasionally two marching band at this point. I miss being a manager somedays but right before a storm I definitely do not. stress is balls.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Mark Oomkes;1730885 said:


> I do and they are understanding. Our last heavy snowfall and cold outbreak, we had numerous customers start off by saying how appreciative they were of our work and when we had time to take care of this or that.
> 
> Although it is kind of difficult to tell a hospital with a 24 hour ER that "tough crap, we're tired and broken down, you're on your own."
> 
> ...


When a smaller guy argues that there is no difference, it's because, IMHO, they have no comprehension of what it takes to run an operation any bigger than what they have. Not sure exactly how big your operation is Mark, but I googled you and found your website, and I would hazard to guess it is pretty big - bigger than mine......


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

JimMarshall;1730139 said:


> And there's the difference. I am not. After I'm done in the field, whether its one hour or 40, I still have 30-40 hours of paperwork and office work to do.


You can always retire.


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

Break...we have only plowed twice this entire winter. Send some of the snow this way please.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

32vld;1730961 said:


> You can always retire.


At 25? Not quite ready for that.


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## dingybigfoot (Jun 12, 2008)

Hours are different. Amount of work required is different. Wondering how much work there will be is different. Wondering if you will be plowing and salting or just salting. What will the timing be? What will break. If something does break, how are we going to get everything done in time? 

Grass is easy. It grows, you mow, you go home. Hours are normal. It might grow a lot or a little. You might be able to skip some. You might have to double cut, but it doesn't double the amount of time required. And in all reality, if someone doesn't get their lawn done today, there is always tomorrow. There are not near the time constraints on mowing as their is plowing and salting. 

Mowing and plowing are not even remotely similar in the amount of stress or planning or prep or timing.

^^^^^^
What he said.


__


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JimMarshall;1730957 said:


> When a smaller guy argues that there is no difference, it's because, IMHO, they have no comprehension of what it takes to run an operation any bigger than what they have. Not sure exactly how big your operation is Mark, but I googled you and found your website, and I would hazard to guess it is pretty big - bigger than mine......


Nope, pretty much the same size based on the equipment in your signature.

I would agree. Until you get into the nuts and bolts, you really don't grasp it.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Let it snow, A lot. (a little at a time). 1-2'' max per event is fine with me. 

Break time is April 15th - November 1st.


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## all ferris (Jan 6, 2005)

How can a guy compare mowing with plowing? Cars don't park on the lawn. Asshats don't slip and fall in the grass and then sue you.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

When your bigger you tend to have other people to burden some of the work load. Also if you have 1 truck and it goes down your screwed, if you have 10 and 1 or 2 goes down your still at 80-90% productivity. This winter has been a little to much work for me, we had a very difficult late harvest and then it started snowing and hasn't stopped. This cold also makes things a little less enjoyable.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

JimMarshall;1729668 said:


> I'm so busy my head spins during the summer, winter is supposed to be my break.


Way it should be here but its not 
Jan been busy with 5 plows and 12 salts on my 1 seasonal contact wont be no profit for this month but I hope come March 31 it all balance out
I have more snow coming in tonight


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

This is the first winter ever that it's getting to me...I'm on my 4th load of salt, a busy season is 3 for me, I spend most of my morning praying for the snow to stop for at least 2 sites in a row...and the rest of the day fixing something minor, lights, connections, a passenger mirror during the ice storm or tweeking something I had a dealer fix to make it fixed right.... I really enjoy invoicing though.. and I hate office work.


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## potskie (Feb 9, 2011)

Mr.Markus;1731365 said:


> or tweeking something I had a dealer fix to make it fixed right.... I really enjoy invoicing though.. and I hate office work.


That was my week right there. I'm exhausted but I was definitely grinning by the time I was done in quick books. Thank god for having some per salts and a bunch of extras and more to come. Tonight I get to spend the night in a loader .


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

all ferris;1731316 said:


> How can a guy compare mowing with plowing? Cars don't park on the lawn. Asshats don't slip and fall in the grass and then sue you.


Once upon a time, this would have been my reply. But MJD told me I had to play nice. Lol

Actually, it would have been worse. And deleted.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

leigh;1730701 said:


> Plowing seems to catch up to you after multiple events. Can't remember ever having hallucinations ,losing 10 lbs ,and literally crying and weeping from lack of sleep ( maybe I am insane after all) except when plowing!


See now here is someone who understands what I go thru..! When it runs too long steady, and things start to break down, and paperwork keeps getting backlogged, and employees don't show up... then you look forward to a projected break shown in the forecast, and a few hours before it is supposed to be clear for a week some random, major, unpredicted storm shows up to knock me on my ass even harder... I can't sleep when there is work needing to be done, or when a storm is approaching, so I have found myself prone to this problem. To try and help me relax, my mom bought me a soothing "nature sounds" cd to play while I try to sleep, I tried it once and actually fell asleep to birds chirping away etc at a nice, low low volume... only to be violently woken up about 15 minutes later by the sound of a major storm, compete with lightning and thunder and those whistling high-power winds (that already freak me out) all at around 3x the volume of the previous bird sounds... that was around the start of a pretty major meltdown a bunch of years back during "Snowmageddon", while I have never been diagnosed as such I am pretty certain I suffer from S.A.D. to begin with (or at least display the symptoms). In all honesty I barely survived the season, with a lot of help from family.

This was actually a big reason why no one saw me here for so long, I didn't want to show my face, wondering how everyone else was handling it while I was cracking badly. After that winter season, the local township bylaw enforcement took it upon themselves to try and shut my biz down on a zoning technicality (long story short, they failed) so the cracks weren't healing. I went to my doctor and told him I was having trouble coping and he gave me an anti-anxiety prescription (I'm low on...something, I forget what it is but again it is a symptom of S.A.D.) and it has helped tremendously. After two years of fighting off the town by basically finding fault in their bylaws (turns out they are Federally and Provincially illegal) and getting a lawyer and threatening the mayor with a lawsuit based on "Harassment with Malicious Intent" and "Fraud" (and having a big hand in getting several town employees fired for such) I was able to go off of them. Now when November comes around, I start taking them and go off when the contracts expire in April... makes a big difference.

I'm smaller than guys like Jim and Mark, but along with that comes having alot less available help too, so I feel it the same way they do. I started out alone, part time, just plowing with no salt or sidewalks, and I loved what I did--but as soon as my first big commercial contract--a grocery store--got bought out in a hostile takeover, I got my first taste of professional property management. By the same token, they also gave me my first big opportunity to expand--instead of plow when it hits 2", it became salting and sidewalks too... of course, they told me this in the end of October so it became a scramble.. but from there everything just multiplied and the stress jumped exponentially!!! This is now my full time job, when it's not snowing I am preparing for snow...


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;1730714 said:


> Hours are different. Amount of work required is different. Wondering how much work there will be is different. Wondering if you will be plowing and salting or just salting. What will the timing be? What will break. If something does break, how are we going to get everything done in time?
> 
> Grass is easy. It grows, you mow, you go home. Hours are normal. It might grow a lot or a little. You might be able to skip some. You might have to double cut, but it doesn't double the amount of time required. And in all reality, if someone doesn't get their lawn done today, there is always tomorrow. There are not near the time constraints on mowing as their is plowing and salting.
> 
> Mowing and plowing are not even remotely similar in the amount of stress or planning or prep or timing.


This reply is spot-on too... and for Mark, surprisingly polite and well behaved!


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## dingybigfoot (Jun 12, 2008)

I'm by no means a large outfit. But I stress out anytime a storm is in the forecast, I stress out during the storm, and I stress out after the storm. Employees, payroll,cash flow, floating expenses, equipment break downs, barely enough time to get anything fixed before the next storm is on us, paperwork, ground temps, is my salt working, shovel crews, property managers. The list goes on and it compounds and multiplies the larger that you are.This season started out the gate. We salted 11 times in December which is a first for me. I remember when I enjoyed the storms and the rush that came with it, but that was also when the stress levels and worries were different. Don't get me wrong. I am thankful for the business that I've built, and I will keep growing it and building it. But the worries and stresses that come with the snow business being a 1 truck operation or a larger outfit are legitimate, just different.


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## Hotfeet (Dec 24, 2013)

I would like a break from doing no plowing. Any snow at all this year would sure help! Not even precipitation to even ice melt very much.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 8, 2008)

This is my last season for the majority of my accounts. I have a very nice mix of high end medical offices, large factories, and mid level professional buildings...and maybe 25 residential. It's a 4 truck operation. I decided after the past few years that I simply can't deal with the stress of this business. I'm wired different than some people and I would admit to being partially OCD, which does not bode well for managing properties, equipment, employees, and customers during a snow storm. There are so many uncontrollables that we prepare for in this industry that no one can appreciate unless they have walked in our shoes. I am very grateful for the opportunity this business has afforded me and the experience of building a business from nothing to what it is today. I began the process of selling out my maintenance and snow removal work in the fall and so far it has been relatively smooth. This winter has been much better as a result of some properties being taken over by the new owner and also me knowing that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I'll miss the massive influx of cash from time to time next year but I can't wait to actually enjoy the snow falling again and take my 2 boys skiing, snowmobiling, ice fishing, and maybe even skip town with the wife someplace warm.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

I run 2 plow trucks, 3 Bobcats, 3 plow subs, 3 salt trucks, and 2 shovel crews. Service about 35 small to medium properties and salt 2 larger properties for another contractor. I would describe my mindset or mood as never being completely relaxed from November thru April. There is always an underlying pressure when you know you are responsible for your accounts and not in control of the variables. I envy the general public at times that aren't tied to the forecast and can actually plan outings or vacations. I know the money can be pretty good compared to a normal job but lately I have been wondering if it is worth the problems. When you really look at the income you need to save for replacing equipment and for having backups it puts a real dent in the earnings.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Italiano67;1732029 said:


> I run 2 plow trucks, 3 Bobcats, 3 plow subs, 3 salt trucks, and 2 shovel crews. Service about 35 small to medium properties and salt 2 larger properties for another contractor. I would describe my mindset or mood as never being completely relaxed from November thru April. There is always an underlying pressure when you know you are responsible for your accounts and not in control of the variables. I envy the general public at times that aren't tied to the forecast and can actually plan outings or vacations. I know the money can be pretty good compared to a normal job but lately I have been wondering if it is worth the problems. When you really look at the income you need to save for replacing equipment and for having backups it puts a real dent in the earnings.


It is getting far more difficult to be a medium sized company. Seems like you need to be maybe 4 trucks or 20+ trucks\equipment. For the exact reasons you state.

Throw in the stress for 5 months, the lack of having a life for 5 months, screwing up the family life for 5 months, and you hit the nail on the head.

But hey, it's all roses and running like clockwork. 

At this point, I would love being an employee. Although I probably wouldn't be a very good one for plowing. I'd do fine when I was available, but therein lies the catch. I love the actual work of plowing, just not the crap that goes along with it.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

I need a break...


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;1732034 said:


> It is getting far more difficult to be a medium sized company. Seems like you need to be maybe 4 trucks or 20+ trucks\equipment. For the exact reasons you state.
> 
> Throw in the stress for 5 months, the lack of having a life for 5 months, screwing up the family life for 5 months, and you hit the nail on the head.
> 
> ...


I hear ya Mark. I thought by keeping myself more focused on a tighter route this yr, that I would reduce stress, & make managing easier...didn't happen. I still have to bounce all over hell, check this, check that, call this person, call that person, etc etc...the last storm we had I didn't pre-sleep, and when I started feeling unsafe to be driving, went home. Over the course of 4hrs of trying to get a nap in, I didn't sleep for more than 30min at a time due to the phone constantly ringing/texts.

I'm getting to the point where I need some more help managing(site & office)...and will address this asap...but I have this bad feeling that it will not change the level of stress, it will just shift it in different directions??? We'll see....


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## dingybigfoot (Jun 12, 2008)

snocrete;1732105 said:


> I hear ya Mark. I thought by keeping myself more focused on a tighter route this yr, that I would reduce stress, & make managing easier...didn't happen. *I still have to bounce all over hell, check this, check that, call this person, call that person, etc etc.*..the last storm we had I didn't pre-sleep, and when I started feeling unsafe to be driving, went home. *Over the course of 4hrs of trying to get a nap in, I didn't sleep for more than 30min at a time due to the phone constantly ringing/texts. *
> 
> I'm getting to the point where I need some more help managing(site & office)...and will address this asap...but I have this bad feeling that it will not change the level of stress, it will just shift it in different directions??? We'll see....


This is becoming very common for me.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Since Dec 2 I have been to my apartment 9 times, i sleep at my girlfriends when it snows. In the last 4 days we had 2 blizzards. Clean everything, then it starts again....getting old lol. But when I send invoices I`ll be happy.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

maybe it's the location, maybe the amount of snow, the types of clients (commercial/residential), the type of person running the business or even the size of business. but me and my friend both run our businesses very different and both are very different and we don't have nearly the amount of stress you guys are talking about. 

I'm solo and do roughly 22 residential driveways with sidewalks and steps per storm. one truck with a 7'6" v blade, a snow blower and a shovel. once the visit is done it's the responsibility of the client if they need more visits due to drifting. go through my round and then home to sleep for the next round or just in general if no more snow is coming. 

my friend has 9 employees and 4 trucks and does I don't know how many commercial lots and residential driveways. I know he babysits his commercial lots but like me it's the residential clients responsibility to inform him if drifting occurred and needs redone. when he goes to sleep for a bit his employees take care of everything never disturbing him. 

no stress, just roll with the punches.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

I don't mine it snowing all the time. It becomes a routine for me. I hate when it stops snowing for awhile, tough to get back into it.


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## dycproperties (Nov 19, 2012)

I don't want to be to too harsh yard guy but 22 residentials is almost at the level of a hobby compared to what most snow buisnesses are responsible for so no wonder you are not stressed.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

22 drives? So that's a couple hours work for me. Unless they are spread out all over town. Only reason it would take me 2 hours is if I get out to shovel. 

Or are they all like private drives that are a 1/4 mile long?

Criminy, I wouldn't have any stress and it could snow all year if that's all I had to do. Seriously. If they were close together and no shoveling I could have them done in an hour.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Mark Oomkes;1732372 said:


> 22 drives? So that's a couple hours work for me. Unless they are spread out all over town. Only reason it would take me 2 hours is if I get out to shovel.
> 
> Or are they all like private drives that are a 1/4 mile long?
> 
> Criminy, I wouldn't have any stress and it could snow all year if that's all I had to do. Seriously. If they were close together and no shoveling I could have them done in an hour.


My driveway guy does 30 with about 45 minutes drive time in 2.5 Hours.....

It's not even comparable.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

dycproperties;1732341 said:


> I don't want to be to too harsh yard guy but 22 residentials is almost at the level of a hobby compared to what most snow buisnesses are responsible for so no wonder you are not stressed.





Mark Oomkes;1732372 said:


> 22 drives? So that's a couple hours work for me. Unless they are spread out all over town. Only reason it would take me 2 hours is if I get out to shovel.
> 
> Or are they all like private drives that are a 1/4 mile long?
> 
> Criminy, I wouldn't have any stress and it could snow all year if that's all I had to do. Seriously. If they were close together and no shoveling I could have them done in an hour.


ditto

BTW, I have employees & subs that do a good job of helping manage. In fact, I've even let everyone take care of a couple small storms without me over the last couple yrs. But in the end, it all falls on "my" shoulders.

The more work & helpers you have, the more opportunities there are for issues. I've focused really hard on getting/setting up good accounts, finding good help, & buying/staging efficient equipment for accounts. Now I'm finding I need to re-evaluate my managing process. We've had 2 mild winters in a row, and now with this active winter we're having, its making me realize how much I'm trying to do "myself". Hope by the end of winter I'll have a new plan for next winter to make things a little easier.?..


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

yardguy28;1732332 said:


> maybe it's the location, maybe the amount of snow, the types of clients (commercial/residential), the type of person running the business or even the size of business. but me and my friend both run our businesses very different and both are very different and we don't have nearly the amount of stress you guys are talking about.
> 
> I'm solo and do roughly 22 residential driveways with sidewalks and steps per storm. one truck with a 7'6" v blade, a snow blower and a shovel. once the visit is done it's the responsibility of the client if they need more visits due to drifting. go through my round and then home to sleep for the next round or just in general if no more snow is coming.
> 
> ...


Just to give you an idea of the difference in our operations and stress levels, which is why I am ready for a break, which I got over the last 3 days......

You plow 22 residential properties.

I, along with my guys, plow 30 residential properties, and 37 commercial lots encompassing 40 acres of pavement.........


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## all ferris (Jan 6, 2005)

I used to plow and salt about 22 commercial sites ranging in size from 15,000 sqf to 15 acres. I had 1 Bobcat operator, 2 plow trucks, and I ran around and salted/cleaned up everything. I could go through 20 tons of salt on 1 event and put 500 miles on my truck. No less than 20 hours to go through the route. Money was good but stress was high. I was a sub for a larger company. 2 years ago I quit subbing and started doing only 6 smaller commercial sites. Now I am a 1 truck show and the stress is gone. All my sites are only open during the day so that mean no cars in the lots at night when we do most of our plowing (this makes things much better). On a 4" snow I can go through the route in 6-7 hours and I only need 1.5 tons of salt and 7 bags of ice melt for sidewalks. Only put about 80 miles on my truck per event. Money wise I make about 30-40% less per season(after expenses) from when I was subbing. 

But...I AM HAPPY NOW and don't worry about snow. I still have enough energy when I get done plowing to help the kids build a snowman - that is priceless!


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

Mark O, you and I would make terrible employees. As owners and decision makers we do endure a lot of stress and we tend to be control freaks. This year I have finally gotten out of running equipment at night. I have let my employees run it at night and I take care of stuff during the day. Even though this has been the busiest stretch of winter I have been part of in 42 years of plowing my stress level is not near what it has been in other years. As owners we need to learn to delegate and trust.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Herm Witte;1732476 said:


> Mark O, you and I would make terrible employees. As owners and decision makers we do endure a lot of stress and we tend to be control freaks. This year I have finally gotten out of running equipment at night. I have let my employees run it at night and I take care of stuff during the day. Even though this has been the busiest stretch of winter I have been part of in 42 years of plowing my stress level is not near what it has been in other years.* As owners we need to learn to delegate and trust*.


:salute: Something I'm trying to learn more about, as I go, from guys like yourself Herm. I regret not introducing myself to you at the GLTE....but I did help you pass out pamphlets at one of the talks:waving:.


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## green frog (Jan 2, 2007)

I am in same area as Grandview and been out 17 or 18 times and another 3-6 coming saturday so been busy. But I wont cry if we got a couple weeks off. Me and my guy do 65 residentials and 6 small commercial but with a 7 and 8 foot straight blades. Looking for a mvp to cut down time.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Herm Witte;1732476 said:


> Mark O, you and I would make terrible employees. As owners and decision makers we do endure a lot of stress and we tend to be control freaks. *This year I have finally gotten out of running equipment at night.* I have let my employees run it at night and I take care of stuff during the day. Even though this has been the busiest stretch of winter I have been part of in 42 years of plowing my stress level is not near what it has been in other years. As owners we need to learn to delegate and trust.


I tried this a few years back. Had a great ops manager who ran everything just fine.

I HATED it. I know it was several years ago, I was younger, wasn't a bad winter, etc. But I truly hated not being out at night. Would get up around 4 or 5, help out if needed, probably got in the way too. My ops manager got a full time fire job, so I went back into the field the next year.

In all reality, this year decision making has been a piece of cake. There really haven't been many nights in which a decision of salting vs plowing was needed. We plowed just about every night and it was an easy decision by 7 or 8 PM. Equipment breakdowns had been minimal with very little lost time until the "big" one a couple weeks ago. Maybe it's age, maybe it's whatever going on inside me, not really sure, but it isn't near as much fun as it used to be.

You're right Herm, I would be a terrible employee. It would be fun to get rid of all the responsibilities though.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

Reading this thread is like holding a mirror up to all my thoughts & feelings on snow removal. It is rather striking that so much of what Herm and Mark have stated is like replaying a recording in my mind.

I believe it's imperative to keep the big picture in mind. Many of us have grown to a size that seems necessary to make it profitable, and that comes with it's own headaches/responsibilities. And in the past few years, we've been a little spoiled with average winters. This year is seperating the men from the boys - and that's starting to take it's toll. I'm hoping for a bit of a slow down in the next few weeks, but realize this is what we signed up for. So just got to keep on rolling, and hopefully the crew does too. So far the guys have been stellar, and that helps alot. Just hope for their sake we catch a break soon too.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Or maybe it's our wooden shoes that the 3 of us have in common. lol


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;1733025 said:


> Or maybe it's our wooden shoes that the 3 of us have in common. lol


Need a pair, place your order. Thinking about going for a visit this spring.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Our local dealer is the Ontario-wide Boss distributor. Had a chat with him today, he showed me order sheets for parts--alot of the manufacturers part stashes have been completely cleaned out already and they are frantically trying to come up with more! Guess we'd better not break anything, eh? Take it easy out there...

Already been using sand/salt in some places, dunno how much longer the bulk salt supply will hold...

I NEED some time to do invoicing and repairs/maintenance!!! Yet next 5 days in a row have snow again...


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

derekbroerse;1733907 said:


> Our local dealer is the Ontario-wide Boss distributor. Had a chat with him today, he showed me order sheets for parts--alot of the manufacturers part stashes have been completely cleaned out already and they are frantically trying to come up with more! Guess we'd better not break anything, eh? Take it easy out there...
> 
> Already been using sand/salt in some places, dunno how much longer the bulk salt supply will hold...
> 
> I NEED some time to do invoicing and repairs/maintenance!!! Yet next 5 days in a row have snow again...


Stuff like this is why you keep spare parts.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

My local Monroe dealer has zero Boss cutting edges in stock. 60 are on backorder with no idea of when they will be in. Just an example.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Italiano67;1734214 said:


> My local Monroe dealer has zero Boss cutting edges in stock. 60 are on backorder with no idea of when they will be in. Just an example.


Here's an idea buy a cutting edge for a different brand of plow and re drill some holes or go get some steel from a fab shop


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

rjigto4oje;1734222 said:


> Here's an idea buy a cutting edge for a different brand of plow and re drill some holes or go get some steel from a fab shop


Or STOCK EXTRA PARTS people!!!!!!! Be proactive!


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

JimMarshall;1734227 said:


> Or STOCK EXTRA PARTS people!!!!!!! Be proactive!


X2! I see a lot of guys spending hundreds if not thousands on pretty (annoying) lights. But no spare parts.For a thousand per plow type you can stock all the common parts, motors,solenoids, pump, lines ,controllers etc. Don't have to do it all at once, after every billing invest in parts! In the off season you can even get good deals on a whole plow for a backup.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

leigh;1734251 said:


> X2! I see a lot of guys spending hundreds if not thousands on pretty (annoying) lights. But no spare parts.For a thousand per plow type you can stock all the common parts, motors,solenoids, pump, lines ,controllers etc. Don't have to do it all at once, after every billing invest in parts! In the off season you can even get good deals on a whole plow for a backup.


I have $1200 worth (with installation) of (in your words, annoying) lights on my plow truck..... And wouldn't have it any other way..... WHy? because the reason you find them so annoying is they are so visible and eye catching.....That's the point, is it not? Got tired of people pulling out in front of me claiming they didn't see me, so I fixed it....

Pretty much, with the exception of parts that are weld-able until a replacement can be purchased (frame, etc) , I could go out into my shop right now and build you a complete plow with our spare parts. Way less money into buying them than you will lose if your plow goes down and you can't get parts to fix it.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

JimMarshall;1734287 said:


> I have $1200 worth (with installation) of (in your words, annoying) lights on my plow truck..... And wouldn't have it any other way..... WHy? because the reason you find them so annoying is they are so visible and eye catching.....That's the point, is it not? Got tired of people pulling out in front of me claiming they didn't see me, so I fixed it....
> 
> Pretty much, with the exception of parts that are weld-able until a replacement can be purchased (frame, etc) , I could go out into my shop right now and build you a complete plow with our spare parts. Way less money into buying them than you will lose if your plow goes down and you can't get parts to fix it.


Got nothing against the safety of lighting systems, I have strobes etc on my trucks. Wish I could have taken a picture of one truck I saw, it was outfitted with more lights than you can imagine, this guy had more led multiple light bars aimed forward while he was driving down the road.(dot would have had a field day with this guy) I was tired and at first thought it was a UFO.Brings on migraines for me and others. Just that some get carried away at the expense of reliability and having back ups


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

I just have 8 Oval LED strobes on my dump (2 per corner - one facing each side).....

Why do you say that the DOT would have a field day?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

JimMarshall;1734315 said:


> I just have 8 Oval LED strobes on my dump (2 per corner - one facing each side).....
> 
> Why do you say that the DOT would have a field day?


I was referring to the yahoo I saw on the road. He had led floods that were blinding, like these - for off road use, or plowing private lots


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

leigh;1734329 said:


> I was referring to the yahoo I saw on the road. He had led floods that were blinding, like these - for off road use, or plowing private lots


OHHHHH... I knew you were talking about him, not me,

But when you said "light bars" I thought you meant something like this


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## Raymond S. (Jan 8, 2008)

That would make me sick! I can appreciate a few amber signals but from there I prefer solid lighting for backing up or even moving forward. I personally couldn't operate with strobes.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Raymond S.;1734345 said:


> That would make me sick! I can appreciate a few amber signals but from there I prefer solid lighting for backing up or even moving forward. I personally couldn't operate with strobes.


I made the mistake of putting white hide aways in my pick up. I've got a blizzard 810 (white) on that truck,the reflections drive me crazy, fortunatly I don't often drive that truck. Power supply burned out and I'm finally ordering new one(one part I didn't have in reserve)


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Sorry for going off topic, I need a break! Plus I'm racing toward a dubious goal of 1000 posts (loser ,no life status)


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

leigh;1734356 said:


> Sorry for going off topic, I need a break! Plus I'm racing toward a dubious goal of 1000 posts (loser ,no life status)


Obviously no life,if that's your goal!


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

JimMarshall;1734183 said:


> Stuff like this is why you keep spare parts.


I actually do keep spare parts, I'm not in trouble, I was merely looking for replacement covers for the walk behind salt doggs and have been waiting for two months.

I simply do not have the storage space to stockpile a whole plow's worth of spares. I keep power packs, valves, cylinders. I keep the old cutting edges when I replace them a little early (or break one, keep the other). I keep bolt racks, and boxes of necessary specialty ones like the carriage bolts to hold those cutting edges. Hoses can be made while I wait during business hours. And if I really get desperate, I can cannibalize the spare/2nd 9'2 plow, since with the light winters it hasn't been mounted up in quite some time.

Not everyone is as well off that way as I am... and apparently I'm not as well off that was as you.

The world has gone to "Just In Time" manufacturing, which in terms of high pressure work like ours means "Just About Screwed". You need to keep at least some spare parts...


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## hedhunter9 (Nov 15, 2008)

We have run out of room to put snow. and the cheap apt. complex's dont want to pay for having it moved. Not sure what we are gonna do. More snow tonight, tomorrow, day after. Heck all next week.
We are already over our yearly average and still have 2 months to go..
arrrggghh.. 

Bob


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

Haven't had a day off since Dec 9th. Already passed my salt usage last year . Wages are 80% of last year, and 8 weeks left!:crying:

Bill


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Our average annual snowfall is 83 inches a year. We had 1/4 of that by 3 PM on Nov. 20, and it didn't start snowing until 3 am November 20.

Already used double the salt this year that we used all last year. Today was our 4th day straight of plowing, and I believe our 20th day of working this year.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

JimMarshall;1737917 said:


> Our average annual snowfall is 83 inches a year. We had 1/4 of that by 3 PM on Nov. 20, and it didn't start snowing until 3 am November 20.
> 
> Already used double the salt this year that we used all last year. Today was our 4th day straight of plowing, and I believe our 20th day of working this year.


And all for 30 bucks an hour.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Mother Nature gave us a *****slap last night. Had all of our lots clean and clear, sidewalks nice wet concrete, etc. and no one got to see it, because just before opening time the wind suddenly picked up like a blizzard, and even with next to no fresh snowfall, that wind had our lots looking like we hadn't touched them all night... just in time for the first cars to start pulling in. 6" plus across the lots and sidewalks drifted 16" deep. Again. Exactly what I just took off a few hours before.

According to the forecast I theoretically have about 2 days clear now (after I go back out to clean parking spaces tonight) to get my invoicing done!!! Its been so busy I haven't had the time to bill, and I'm hurtin' because of it!


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

derekbroerse;1737968 said:


> Mother Nature gave us a *****slap last night. Had all of our lots clean and clear, sidewalks nice wet concrete, etc. and no one got to see it, because just before opening time the wind suddenly picked up like a blizzard, and even with next to no fresh snowfall, that wind had our lots looking like we hadn't touched them all night... just in time for the first cars to start pulling in. 6" plus across the lots and sidewalks drifted 16" deep. Again. Exactly what I just took off a few hours before.
> 
> According to the forecast I theoretically have about 2 days clear now (after I go back out to clean parking spaces tonight) to get my invoicing done!!! Its been so busy I haven't had the time to bill, and I'm hurtin' because of it!


Grab yourself a Blue and get going on those invoices!


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

grandview;1737970 said:


> Grab yourself a Blue and get going on those invoices!


Screw that, I'm going to bed as soon as the caffeine wears off, I've been up for well over 24 hours, and working almost all of em.

Came home to a mess of cat **** and blood all over my bed tho. Someone is going to the vet tomorrow whether he likes it or not!


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

derekbroerse;1737968 said:


> Mother Nature gave us a *****slap last night. Had all of our lots clean and clear, sidewalks nice wet concrete, etc. and no one got to see it, because just before opening time the wind suddenly picked up like a blizzard, and even with next to no fresh snowfall, that wind had our lots looking like we hadn't touched them all night... just in time for the first cars to start pulling in. 6" plus across the lots and sidewalks drifted 16" deep. Again. Exactly what I just took off a few hours before.
> 
> According to the forecast I theoretically have about 2 days clear now (after I go back out to clean parking spaces tonight) to get my invoicing done!!! Its been so busy I haven't had the time to bill, and I'm hurtin' because of it!


We do all our invoicing on the last day of the month. I would just like to be able to get my mowers their fall service. Lol


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

mite as well wait until spring now. the only thing I do after fall is maybe blow them off a bit, remove the batteries and add fuel stabilizer. drain handhelds completely call it a year.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

Our winter has just started. 5-10" at my house today through tomorrow morning. Unfortunately, my availability for plowing is a fraction of what it was before I had kids. Now I have be home with them because day care will be closed. That's why I sold my Fisher and haven't put a plow on my F-250. In order to go plow, I need a storm on the weekend when I am not working my regular job. What are the chances for that???? At least I'll get to plow my driveway and couple neighbors with my Honda. Here it is ready to go!


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

yardguy28;1738407 said:


> mite as well wait until spring now. the only thing I do after fall is maybe blow them off a bit, remove the batteries and add fuel stabilizer. drain handhelds completely call it a year.


We change the fluids and filters, wash everything, inspect belts, lube, etc before we put them away for the winter...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JimMarshall;1738524 said:


> We change the fluids and filters, wash everything, inspect belts, lube, etc before we put them away for the winter...


We didn't have time. It went from cleanups to non-stop snow.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Mark Oomkes;1738619 said:


> We didn't have time. It went from cleanups to non-stop snow.


Same here....


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

JimMarshall;1738404 said:


> We do all our invoicing on the last day of the month. I would just like to be able to get my mowers their fall service. Lol


I would like to do this, but there is no one to help me in office work. Heck, hard enough to find labourers here, no one wants to work.



Mark Oomkes;1738619 said:


> We didn't have time. It went from cleanups to non-stop snow.


Same here. I only got two of the trucks oil sprayed too.... spring time job now.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

JimMarshall;1738524 said:


> We change the fluids and filters, wash everything, inspect belts, lube, etc before we put them away for the winter...


I do all that in the spring right before go time.


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