# Gas V Boxes



## John_DeereGreen

Ok, I'm looking for suggestions on gas powered v box spreaders in the 2 ish yard range. We've got just about every brand known to man within an hour's drive. 

What do you have, what works, and what doesn't? Buyers seems to be the cheapest, but I'm not exactly impressed with their electric units. However, we have a hydro undergate on our dump that has spread a couple hundred tons so far this season and done it perfectly. Any other brands to look at?

No, I'm not interested in anything having to do with electric spreaders.


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## snowplower1

I was going to tell you to look at the boss VBX 8000 until i seen that last sentence. Sounds like youve made your mind up! haha but i will say i love mine, it is the best electric spreader out there i think...

Other than that, I have heard good things of them smith spreaders. Everyone around here that has a gasser has a smith spreader.


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## John_DeereGreen

We've got VBX's. And salt mutts. They're too slow and don't spread wide enough. It'll be a good day when we have nothing but hydro. A couple pickup spreaders are handy though.


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## snowplower1

yeah, I would never put a electric on a dump. 
I always say as soon as i get a dump, i'll be buying one of the smith spreaders. but for now vbx and salt mutt. salt mutt already went through one spinner assembly. 
have or heard of the smith spreaders?


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## Philbilly2

Are you looking at new only?


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## Triple L

snowplower1 said:


> I was going to tell you to look at the boss VBX 8000 until i seen that last sentence. Sounds like youve made your mind up! haha but i will say i love mine, it is the best electric spreader out there i think...
> 
> Other than that, I have heard good things of them smith spreaders. Everyone around here that has a gasser has a smith spreader.


Western striker hands down! Even consider the electric as I have nothing but good things to say about my 4.5 yard striker... I can only imagine the gas version would be just as good...

Boss vbx is okay at best, almost unservicable without tearing the whole thing apart for 45 minutes just to grease a simple bearing, electric dump switch in the back screws up after 1 season, decent spread pattern and super nice controller but weak motors that jam up if salt is left in... none of those problems exist with a stiker spreader!

Definitely take a look at one!


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## John_DeereGreen

Philbilly2 said:


> Are you looking at new only?


Used is an option, long as it's not worn out junk.

I'm not sure I can bring myself to buy anything Douglas Dynamics, and there is no way in hell I'll buy more electric. Have you ever used a hydraulic spreader Chad? How many ton have you run through your striker?


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## FredG

John_DeereGreen said:


> We've got VBX's. And salt mutts. They're too slow and don't spread wide enough. It'll be a good day when we have nothing but hydro. A couple pickup spreaders are handy though.


To bad you live so far away I got a nice Monroe hydro it will hold all of 3yrds. I would sell you for 2k complete. I don't have it for sale really I got another truck for it. The problem is you almost got to dedicate a truck to it. It could be taken off it's just a lot of work for me anyways. It will throw, Specially if your on the gas a little.. LOL

I just bought a smith electric, They are manufactured 13 miles from me.


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## John_DeereGreen

FredG said:


> To bad you live so far away I got a nice Monroe hydro it will hold all of 3yrds. I would sell you for 2k complete. I don't have it for sale really I got another truck for it. The problem is you almost got to dedicate a truck to it. It could be taken off it's just a lot of work for me anyways. It will throw, Specially if your on the gas a little.. LOL
> 
> I just bought a smith electric, They are manufactured 13 miles from me.


Pm me your phone number, we might be able to work something out on another deal I'm looking for


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## Kubota 8540

The Buyers Salt Dogg is decent, VERY quiet, Stainless Steel has been great. Like anything they have their qwerks? Controller is basic for a gas spreader and cheap to rebuild if necessary. Qwerks? The bearing for the spinner shaft has to be completely washed off. They hold salt on top of them unless you remove the dummy plate. This will allow you to wash them off at the end of the season. Dummy plate keeps you from sticking your fingers in the sprocket and chain. But for the money, they are worth it. Wouldn't buy anything gas powered unless it had a Briggs or Honda.


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## Defcon 5

John_DeereGreen said:


> Ok, I'm looking for suggestions on gas powered v box spreaders in the 2 ish yard range. We've got just about every brand known to man within an hour's drive.
> 
> What do you have, what works, and what
> 
> doesn't? Buyers seems to be the cheapest, but I'm not exactly impressed with their electric units. However, we have a hydro undergate on our dump that has spread a couple hundred
> 
> tons so far this season and done it perfectly. Any other brands to look at?
> 
> No, I'm not interested in anything having to do
> 
> with electric spreaders.


Why not electric??...I have heard nothing but positive reviews on the Meyers Brand...Thumbs Up


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## FredG

I like electric if I can't have hydro, I will admit the gas do throw better, They are just a PITA sometime getting started. JMO


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## John_DeereGreen

Defcon 5 said:


> Why not electric??...I have heard nothing but positive reviews on the Meyers Brand...Thumbs Up


I only had positive things to say about electric spreaders. Before I realized how much more productive the alternatives are.

Kubota, how many tons have you run through yours and what issues have you had? As always the Buyers price point interests me but scares me at once.

Anyone run any Ace Torwell stuff? They've got a gas engine hydraulic unit, I'm almost scared to know how much it is though.


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## Kubota 8540

I think I have had it about 5 years? So maybe 150+ tons. Not 1 problem or issue other than the dummy shield that I thought was welded on, only to find out later where it was bolted on. If I had of known it was removable I could have washed off the spinner shaft bearings better before I put it away for the summer. I was able to free the stuck spinner bearings after some work on it. I am always faithful with greasing the money maker and always greased the spinner shaft bearings but if they are not washed clean, salt lays atop of them all summer. I have had 4 gas powered spreaders over 30 years roughly. Flink, Western and Buyers. Buyers was the first S/S model and will never look back. The Buyers is so smooth and quiet I have forgotten it was running and GROUND the starter trying to get it started only to figure out it was already running. Just normal maintenance, nothing other than that. For the money, for a gas powered spreader, they cant be beat. Would not hesitate to purchase another. I do think my Westerns had a little better spread pattern? The Buyers seems to be a little heavier to the passenger side no matter how it it adjusted.


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## leigh

I had a fisher ss procaster,that thing would throw some salt.No problems with the actual salter,just the usual gas engine problems. Replaced that with an utg electric and never looked back! Being able to load up 5 tons plus offsets any downsides.


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## alfman

The buyers stainless gas job is a decent unit we have had many over the years, their municipal series is much better built though. Better built and heavier duty. 
For the money in that size I would recommend an airflo gas then the buyers unit. The airflo is a little thicker stainless and quality control seems better. They both are almost identical in design. 
I would not recommend Swenson/Meyer spreaders. They have poly couplers that do not last half a season so we are constantly watching and replacing them. Also stay away from their wireless controller. Sounds like a nice idea but we didn't even get a season out of it till we had problems and hard wired a control box in. 

On all the gas jobs I have owned the Briggs seem to be the most reliable motor. The carb/linkage area is easily accessible to keep fluid filmed and adjusted, unlike the hondas. Plus parts (starters etc) are much cheaper and easier to find. 

I currently run a 5 yd salt dog municipal unit, a 4.5 yd Meyers/ Swenson, and a 2 yd air Flo. If you have any questions or want to try out my spreaders just let me know.


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## John_DeereGreen

Right now it's Airflo, Buyers, Monroe or Ace Torwell.

Calling for the scoop on the Torwell tomorrow if they're open.



alfman said:


> I currently run a 5 yd salt dog municipal unit, a 4.5 yd Meyers/ Swenson, and a 2 yd air Flo. If you have any questions or want to try out my spreaders just let me know.


That's extremely tempting since you're so close. Airflo is one of the ones on the top of my list simply because the dealer we buy all our Boss stuff from sells them. Wouldn't be surprised if it's the same one you use.

I need to run over your way this week sometime anyway. Pm me your phone number or you can text me. 3302017701


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## Maclawnco

He makes a good point; the mid sized Salt Doggs are great. We had a 4.5 yd /10 ft and 4 yd /9ft for a couple years and they were great units. The large 8 yd units we have now are fantastic too.


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## John_DeereGreen

Do you still have the one you had listed for sale a few weeks back or did it go down the road when your new 4300's were ready?

This one would be a pickup size is the only thing, and I'm pretty sure the municipal style start at like 4 yards. Anything I would have that size will be hydro, no question. 

I have no complaints with our hydro under tailgate salt dogg. It's spread at least 250 tons this year. Parts are cheap compared to other options on the market with Buyers too. And we have an outstanding Buyers/salt dogg dealer close.


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## Maclawnco

Still have it. It's a 10 ft unit but based on the smaller units, like the normal 8ft units the smaller sized series before you jump to the midsized line.


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## az landscaping

I have 2 stainless steel downeaster for 15 years with honda engine's and no problems. Always oil down chains,mufflers,engine after winter.


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## Brian Young

This is our first year with a gas v box. We've gotten away from liquids for now due to sub par products and still run a electric Down Easter. Any way, bought a used SS Bengal Szwag (built in NY) for 1500 bucks, came with a 10.5 Briggs and newer drag chain. I re wired everything and serviced everything and it's basically a brand new spreader. Our electric DownEaster is an 07 and has been flawless, the only thing I've done to it was shorten the chain a couple links. As far as the differences between the two, I think the electric puts down a more even path, spreading salt evenly on both sides of the truck about 10-15ft on #7 on the dial. Our gas spreader on the next step above idle will do about the same, when I crank it up to max it will throw salt a lot further but not good coverage unless I drive a lot slower. The only thing I don't like about the gas one is if it's cold out (under 30F) it doesn't like to start from in the cab so I have to manually start it initially, after it's warmed up it's fine all night. There's definitely more maintenance and things to worry about with a gas motor like fuel, clutch, basic maintenance whereas an electric is basically push button and go.


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## John_DeereGreen

I would love to see an electric spreader that spreads a 20-30 foot swath at any coverage greater than a table salt shaker can apply. 

I've been teaching guys to apply with our electric spreaders by not touching the auger setting and to set it at a pre chosen number and vary ground speed for application rates. Thinking of it as "training" for the switch to gas boxes, where all you have is up and down on throttle, which increases or decreases both spread width and material flow. Similar to changing your feed gate before you leave and then speeding up or slowing down the motor to vary spread width.


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## STARSHIP

alfman said:


> The buyers stainless gas job is a decent unit we have had many over the years, their municipal series is much better built though. Better built and heavier duty.
> For the money in that size I would recommend an airflo gas then the buyers unit. The airflo is a little thicker stainless and quality control seems better. They both are almost identical in design.
> I would not recommend Swenson/Meyer spreaders. They have poly couplers that do not last half a season so we are constantly watching and replacing them. Also stay away from their wireless controller. Sounds like a nice idea but we didn't even get a season out of it till we had problems and hard wired a control box in.
> 
> On all the gas jobs I have owned the Briggs seem to be the most reliable motor. The carb/linkage area is easily accessible to keep fluid filmed and adjusted, unlike the hondas. Plus parts (starters etc) are much cheaper and easier to find.
> 
> I currently run a 5 yd salt dog municipal unit, a 4.5 yd Meyers/ Swenson, and a 2 yd air Flo. If you have any questions or want to try out my spreaders just let me know.


Might be drifting off topic, but we have the Swenson 4 1/2 yarder too. We just replaced the poly coupler (we got 1 1/2 seasons out of it), and had to put a bolt in place of the coupling pin. We don't like the belt system, as it seems to slip at times. Thinking about converting it to a chain drive. And I hear you on the wireless. We are on controller number two, so I'm interested to hear what controller you hard wired into it?

Back on topic. We have a Buyers SS as a backup/ice storm helper, and has been very reliable. It was used full time the first year we had it, but then the last three years it has gone out on runs about 1/3 of the times.


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## FredG

Air flow is a great spreader, I would also look into a Smith. I went with the Smith, I have a older Flink gas, This is a very good spreader, I had a buyers gas SS spreader a lot of electronic throttle problems. Did not care for parts either, They are more worried about selling you a new one than the problem you want to fix. A friend of mine bought a smith back in 1991 it is still with him and working every snow event. Good luck with whatever decision you make.


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## Triple L

John_DeereGreen said:


> I would love to see an electric spreader that spreads a 20-30 foot swath at any coverage greater than a table salt shaker can apply.
> 
> I've been teaching guys to apply with our electric spreaders by not touching the auger setting and to set it at a pre chosen number and vary ground speed for application rates. Thinking of it as "training" for the switch to gas boxes, where all you have is up and down on throttle, which increases or decreases both spread width and material flow. Similar to changing your feed gate before you leave and then speeding up or slowing down the motor to vary spread width.


You do realize with a western striker all the components are the exact same whether it's gas powered, electric, or hydraulic... same chain, same spinner, same gate, a electric western will put the salt down the same as the gas powered western...


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## John_DeereGreen

Triple L said:


> You do realize with a western striker all the components are the exact same whether it's gas powered, electric, or hydraulic... same chain, same spinner, same gate, a electric western will put the salt down the same as the gas powered western...


Buyers is the same way. If you put all 3 next to each other, I see no possible way that a hydraulic and gas spreader would not absolutely kill an electric one.

How does a ~1 hp feeder motor and a ~.5 hp spinner motor produce anywhere close to the same results as a 10.5 hp gas engine, or dual hydraulic motors?

I've run a Saltmutt electric under tailgate and a hydraulic under tailgate. Both are identical except the motor type. The hydraulic absolutely smokes the electric.


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## leigh

Triple L said:


> You do realize with a western striker all the components are the exact same whether it's gas powered, electric, or hydraulic... same chain, same spinner, same gate, a electric western will put the salt down the same as the gas powered western...


Even western mentions that the hydro unit has the most power.Its hard to find info on motor rpm between the power options.Its impossible for a 1 or 1.5 electric motor to equal a 10.5 hp gas engine.My friend had an electric version of a gas style salter and it ran a lot slower than the gas model.Most don't mind the output differences for the simplicity of electric,with the exception of John D and others that want to blast the salt out on larger lots.


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## leigh

Great minds?Oh boy


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## Mark Oomkes

Triple L said:


> You do realize with a western striker all the components are the exact same whether it's gas powered, electric, or hydraulic... same chain, same spinner, same gate, a electric western will put the salt down the same as the gas powered western...


Chad, Chad, Chad.........have you ever operated a hydraulic spreader? There is absolutely no comparison to an electric. At least for spreading abilities. Put down the Kool-Aid.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Chad, Chad, Chad.........have you ever operated a hydraulic spreader? There is absolutely no comparison to an electric. At least for spreading abilities. Put down the Kool-Aid.


Once you pick up the Koolaide it's hard to put down...Ask The Boss EXT owners


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## John_DeereGreen

I blame this entire post and my outlook electric spreaders on @Mark Oomkes and @Maclawnco.

They're the ones that kept telling me we were pissing away tons of time with electric spreaders.

Man were they right.


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## Defcon 5

John_DeereGreen said:


> I blame this entire post and my outlook electric spreaders on @Mark Oomkes and @Maclawnco.
> 
> They're the ones that kept telling me we were
> 
> pissing away tons of time with electric spreaders.
> 
> Man were they right.


Oh Great....Two Egos that need to get even bigger...:hammerhead:


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Oh Great....Two Egos that need to get even bigger...:hammerhead:


And???

Yours can't get bigger, the universe has no more room.


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## Maclawnco

Defcon 5 said:


> Oh Great....Two Egos that need to get even bigger...:hammerhead:


Egos? Lego my ego?


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## Maclawnco

John_DeereGreen said:


> I blame this entire post and my outlook electric spreaders on @Mark Oomkes and @Maclawnco.
> 
> They're the ones that kept telling me we were pissing away tons of time with electric spreaders.
> 
> Man were they right.


Once you have all central hydros, you won't know what to do with yourself. Life on easy Street.


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## Mark Oomkes

Maclawnco said:


> Once you have all central hydros, you won't know what to do with yourself. Life on easy Street.


I know I'm happier than a union monkey swilling Buttwyper this year. Got rid of my 2 biggest headaches (electric spreaders) just in time since we've been doing a crapload of salting this season.


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## John_DeereGreen

Maclawnco said:


> Once you have all central hydros, you won't know what to do with yourself. Life on easy Street.


I'm already tickled to death. We're putting about 20 tons through our hydro truck and maybe 5 through the electric trucks.

Never again....electric spreaders are great for someone spreading a couple ton per event. But for any kind of production they just suck.


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## Triple L

Mark is just bitter from his Swenson electric experience which I don't blame him... kinda like his 6 liter ford LOL

So all th dot trucks henderson and sweson sell to don't put down more then a couple ton per storm? A that's why henderson sells big 12 ton salters with electric drive because they suck soo bad?


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## Mark Oomkes

Had a Saltmutt too Chad. 

How many and where do they sell those?


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## John_DeereGreen

Electric sucks. 

I will not buy another electric spreader...except in the condition listed below. 

A drag chain can move an ok volume but there still isn't any spread width. Hence the reason a municipality can use them. Only spreading a lane or lane and a half they don't need distance, and really don't need volume. And road applications are entirely different anyway. 400 pounds per lane mile is a pretty heavy rate. That's less than 200 pounds per acre. We need 4 times that in parking lots. 

Our hydro spreader will spread 35 feet at 750 pounds an acre at 10+ mph. We have one group of accounts that totals about 25 acres and it's all one large lot. Bring your Striker down, and we'll run it alongside my hydro truck. If you spread the correct rate (7-800 pounds an acre) as fast or faster than my hydro can do, I'll pay for all your costs coming down and back, and I'll buy an electric Striker the next day.


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## leigh

I think Ill run my Swenson utg electric with the spinner off and into a bucket or maybe a coffee cup!, and weigh what comes out in one minute.It would be nice to have the manufacturers provide this info.I would guess it would be about half what a hydro unit puts out.And I'm still not quite clear on one issue. Mr. John Deere,whats your honest opinion of electric salters ?


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## John_DeereGreen

leigh said:


> I think Ill run my Swenson utg electric with the spinner off and into a bucket or maybe a coffee cup!, and weigh what comes out in one minute.It would be nice to have the manufacturers provide this info.I would guess it would be about half what a hydro unit puts out.And I'm still not quite clear on one issue. Mr. John Deere,whats your honest opinion of electric salters ?


It would be a waste of the gasoline required to set them on fire.

For what it's worth, with our auger set on 3, spinner on 10 and sitting to the side, truck engine at 12-1400 RPM, we can fill a 5 gallon bucket in about 5 seconds.


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## leigh

John_DeereGreen said:


> It would be a waste of the gasoline required to set them on fire.
> 
> For what it's worth, with our auger set on 3, spinner on 10 and sitting to the side, truck engine at 12-1400 RPM, we can fill a 5 gallon bucket in about 5 seconds.


\
Thanks,I'll give it a go tomorrow.Now i'm thinking it may be even less than half the output of a hydro unit.


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## Aerospace Eng

John_DeereGreen said:


> Only spreading a lane or lane and a half they don't need distance, and really don't need volume. And road applications are entirely different anyway. 400 pounds per lane mile is a pretty heavy rate. That's less than 200 pounds per acre. We need 4 times that in parking lots.


This is probably taking the thread on a tangent......

I've never salted (even on my own walk), and so this question is one of curiosity. Why would parking lots need to be salted at a higher density than a road?

Shouldn't the salting density simply depend on the temperature of the ground and air so that the melting point is depressed low enough so the ice/snow melts?

I could see it varying due to how well one scrapes, as that will affect how much salt is needed because it will only work until it is diluted such that the melting temperature isn't sufficiently depressed.

Anyway, I am curious as to why parking lots would take more.


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## John_DeereGreen

leigh said:


> \
> Thanks,I'll give it a go tomorrow.Now i'm thinking it may be even less than half the output of a hydro unit.


Im curious to see the outcome of this test for sure.



Aerospace Eng said:


> This is probably taking the thread on a tangent......
> 
> I've never salted (even on my own walk), and so this question is one of curiosity. Why would parking lots need to be salted at a higher density than a road?
> 
> Shouldn't the salting density simply depend on the temperature of the ground and air so that the melting point is depressed low enough so the ice/snow melts?
> 
> I could see it varying due to how well one scrapes, as that will affect how much salt is needed because it will only work until it is diluted such that the melting temperature isn't sufficiently depressed.
> 
> Anyway, I am curious as to why parking lots would take more.


Roads have constant traffic flowing in the same spot so it helps melt much quicker.

It works similarly in parking lots. For instance, we can put down ~500 pounds an acre at one of our Walmart's, and 750 or more at a strip mall right next to it that sees a lot less traffic and the pavement will be clear at Walmart noticeably quicker than the strip mall.


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## Aerospace Eng

Thanks.


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## FredG

We are not comparing a apple to a apple, You can't compare a electric or gas to a hydro unit. Not bashing electric or gas. I own all 3. Monroe hydro, Flink gas and a smith electric. JMO


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## Mark Oomkes

Aerospace Eng said:


> This is probably taking the thread on a tangent......
> 
> I've never salted (even on my own walk), and so this question is one of curiosity. Why would parking lots need to be salted at a higher density than a road?
> 
> Shouldn't the salting density simply depend on the temperature of the ground and air so that the melting point is depressed low enough so the ice/snow melts?
> 
> I could see it varying due to how well one scrapes, as that will affect how much salt is needed because it will only work until it is diluted such that the melting temperature isn't sufficiently depressed.
> 
> Anyway, I am curious as to why parking lots would take more.


Jarrett nailed it.

It is also the same reason that liquids don't work as well on walks as driveways\parking lots.

Not everything is pure science. Sometimes science hits the brick wall of the real world.


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## Mark Oomkes

FredG said:


> We are not comparing a apple to a apple, You can't compare a electric or gas to a hydro unit. Not bashing electric or gas. I own all 3. Monroe hydro, Flink gas and a smith electric. JMO


Well....they hydro could be a Red Delicious or Gala and the electric could be a rotten crabapple.............lol.


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## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> Well....they hydro could be a Red Delicious or Gala and the electric could be a rotten crabapple.............lol.


Good one, LOL


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## Aerospace Eng

Mark Oomkes said:


> Jarrett nailed it.
> 
> It is also the same reason that liquids don't work as well on walks as driveways\parking lots.
> 
> Not everything is pure science. Sometimes science hits the brick wall of the real world.


Yep. That's why Science + Real World = Engineering

I've always found that the math triumphs in the end. Frequently, however, there are unaccounted for factors, like the traffic in the parking lot v road salting, in the initial set-up of the problem (or porcupines being allergic to Raisin Bran).

I cut this out of a newspaper when it was first printed and still have it around somewhere..... you have to hit the "expand" bar to see it all.

http://www.gocomics.com/bloomcounty/1985/02/10


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## Philbilly2

Aerospace Eng said:


> Yep. That's why Science + Real World = Engineering
> 
> I've always found that the math triumphs in the end. Frequently, however, there are unaccounted for factors, like the traffic in the parking lot v road salting, in the initial set-up of the problem (or porcupines being allergic to Raisin Bran).
> 
> I cut this out of a newspaper when it was first printed and still have it around somewhere..... you have to hit the "expand" bar to see it all.
> 
> http://www.gocomics.com/bloomcounty/1985/02/10


Math also only seems to work in a controlled environment.

Seems no matter how much math you throw at mother nature... you cannot factor enough for what mother nature throws in your face at times.


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## John_DeereGreen

Philbilly2 said:


> Math also only seems to work in a controlled environment.
> 
> Seems no matter how much math you throw at mother nature... you cannot factor enough for what mother nature throws in your face at times.


I feel like she frequently throws things in my face.


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## Defcon 5

So...Did you make up your mind???...Or are you gonna drag this out untill the thread gets derailed and gets deleted???...If that's the case Mark O and I are circling the wagons...


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## John_DeereGreen

Hell no, it's been 50 degrees this week.

Not rushing to buy something. Instead, I'll procrastinate until the next storm and ***** whine and moan about how slow and worthless our electric spreaders are again. 

Then I'll resume thinking about gas spreaders until it warms back up, and the cycle starts all over. 

In all reality we'll probably just run what we have for the remainder of this (lack of) season.


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## Defcon 5

Off the top of my head we have a solid 12-15 saltings and I think 3 or 4 pushes...It's not to bad..Around average I would say...


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## LapeerLandscape

John_DeereGreen said:


> Hell no, it's been 50 degrees this week.
> 
> Not rushing to buy something. Instead, I'll procrastinate until the next storm and ***** whine and moan about how slow and worthless our electric spreaders are again.
> 
> Then I'll resume thinking about gas spreaders until it warms back up, and the cycle starts all over.
> 
> In all reality we'll probably just run what we have for the remainder of this (lack of) season.


Sent you PM if your interested.


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## plow4beer

John_DeereGreen said:


> Our hydro spreader will spread 35 feet at 750 pounds an acre at 10+ mph.


 I have little experience with hydro units, but enough to know its hard pressed for a gas or elec unit to hang with them on performance(when comparing similar models). But, we are getting very similar performance to that out of our elec striker.

We are running 3 other elec spreaders (2 snowex vboxes & a Buyers UTG). Oomkes sig describes Buyers products well, but when the Buyers UTG we run is working (lol), its spreading ability isn't far off from the above. The snowex units will not put it down or as far, but they have been reliable. With that said, I don't see us buying another snowex or buyers product again. I would like to have a hydro unit, but that will have to be achieved later down the road with the acquisition of a truck w/central hyd. For now, I plan to replace the 1 snowex unit in a pickup with another striker.

We put down more than a couple tons per event as well...just sayin

PS Gas spreaders suck & will eventually be a thing of the past.

PPS and if you want to compare my striker to the hydro unit you speak of, you'll have to drive to me and I'll pay if it doesn't. :waving:


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## John_DeereGreen

I just have a really hard time seeing electric having anywhere near the power of gas or hydro based on hands on experience. I wish one of you guys were closer.



LapeerLandscape said:


> Sent you PM if your interested.


I got it. Reviewing it tomorrow probably and comparing.

Any interest in a 2 yard poly Buyers?


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## LapeerLandscape

John_DeereGreen said:


> I just have a really hard time seeing electric having anywhere near the power of gas or hydro based on hands on experience. I wish one of you guys were closer.
> 
> I got it. Reviewing it tomorrow probably and comparing.
> 
> Any interest in a 2 yard poly Buyers?


Negative


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## leigh

John_DeereGreen said:


> Im curious to see the outcome of this test for sure.
> .


Okay,here's the results- Swenson utg electric- filled 5 gal bucket in 14 seconds(70 lbs) Spread width was 39'.Spread to the rear 20'.Spread was a little wider on drivers side.It will spread 300 lbs per minute.So a one acre lot would take 2 minutes.Will spread a ton in 6.5 minutes


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Now do that same width test when there's a half inch of snow on the pavement. 

On dry pavement with the hydro we can cover 50' with little issue. 2 full rows of parking stalls on each side plus the drive isle.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

39' on bare pavement.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Lol.....great minds.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Lol.....great minds.


One Great mind short in that equation....Thumbs Up


----------



## leigh

John_DeereGreen said:


> Now do that same width test when there's a half inch of snow on the pavement.
> 
> On dry pavement with the hydro we can cover 50' with little issue. 2 full rows of parking stalls on each side plus the drive isle.


 Of course you do,a hydro has much more power,already admitted that earlier.Just some quick measurements, not claiming to have some super electric salter lol.


----------



## plow4beer

John_DeereGreen said:


> I just have a really hard time seeing electric having anywhere near the power of gas or hydro based on hands on experience. I wish one of you guys were closer.


Ok, but your spread figures aren't a HUGE difference from what we are getting out of the striker. Just saying what im observing. And no, im not talking about dry pavement lol.

We can sit here and exaggerate "HUGE", "anywhere near", "close", etc etc....but the fact still remains, gas spreaders suck, and they'll eventually be a thing of the past.

Do you understand I'm not arguing that hydro units will out perform the elec units? Im simply saying gas spreaders suck balls.:waving:


----------



## alfman

STARSHIP said:


> Might be drifting off topic, but we have the Swenson 4 1/2 yarder too. We just replaced the poly coupler (we got 1 1/2 seasons out of it), and had to put a bolt in place of the coupling pin. We don't like the belt system, as it seems to slip at times. Thinking about converting it to a chain drive. And I hear you on the wireless. We are on controller number two, so I'm interested to hear what controller you hard wired into it?


My dealer ordered me the control box from Meyer/Swenson. It was not cheap right around $400. It plugs right in the spreader in the engine compartment. Now it's much more reliable and I can depend on it. We haven't had any issues with belts though. I do keep those poly couplers on the shelf though.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

plow4beer said:


> Ok, but your spread figures aren't a HUGE difference from what we are getting out of the striker. Just saying what im observing. And no, im not talking about dry pavement lol.
> 
> We can sit here and exaggerate "HUGE", "anywhere near", "close", etc etc....but the fact still remains, gas spreaders suck, and they'll eventually be a thing of the past.
> 
> Do you understand I'm not arguing that hydro units will out perform the elec units? Im simply saying gas spreaders suck balls.:waving:


I'm not sure gas spreaders will ever go away. While I do agree that electric is convenient, when they work I don't see gas going away any time soon. I totally understand what you're on saying electric won't outperform hydro. I don't see how anyone could ever say that's possible.

Maybe bigger spreaders are different as electric, like the Striker. All I know is we've had 2 different styles of electric spreaders. Salt Dogg, and Boss VBX. While the VBX's are much better it still doesn't spread very wide.

I'm willing to put up with some of the "inconveniences" of gas, i.e. Refilling it, engine maintenance etc, in exchange for the extra production. If it costs us an hour or two per season in spraying fluid film on the engine and refilling the fuel tank, that is a small price to pay for the time they can save us.

Have you run any gas spreaders before? You've been in the industry long enough I would guess the answer is yes.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Defcon 5 said:


> One Great mind short in that equation....Thumbs Up


Dare I ask which one?


----------



## plow4beer

John_DeereGreen said:


> I'm not sure gas spreaders will ever go away. While I do agree that electric is convenient, when they work I don't see gas going away any time soon. I totally understand what you're on saying electric won't outperform hydro. I don't see how anyone could ever say that's possible.
> 
> Maybe bigger spreaders are different as electric, like the Striker. All I know is we've had 2 different styles of electric spreaders. Salt Dogg, and Boss VBX. While the VBX's are much better it still doesn't spread very wide.
> 
> *I'm willing to put up with some of the "inconveniences" of gas, i.e. Refilling it, engine maintenance etc, in exchange for the extra production. If it costs us an hour or two per season in spraying fluid film on the engine and refilling the fuel tank, that is a small price to pay for the time they can save us.*
> 
> Have you run any gas spreaders before? You've been in the industry long enough I would guess the answer is yes.


Yes.

As to the above in bold...I personally feel the trade off isn't there. You aren't saving enough time to offset the additional cost of ownership.

& I 100% trust the reliability of my snowex 8500 & Striker over any of the gas spreaders I've ever used (or even been around, of other peoples for that matter).


----------



## Triple L

John_DeereGreen said:


> I'm not sure gas spreaders will ever go away. While I do agree that electric is convenient, when they work I don't see gas going away any time soon. I totally understand what you're on saying electric won't outperform hydro. I don't see how anyone could ever say that's possible.
> 
> Maybe bigger spreaders are different as electric, like the Striker. All I know is we've had 2 different styles of electric spreaders. Salt Dogg, and Boss VBX. While the VBX's are much better it still doesn't spread very wide.
> 
> I'm willing to put up with some of the "inconveniences" of gas, i.e. Refilling it, engine maintenance etc, in exchange for the extra production. If it costs us an hour or two per season in spraying fluid film on the engine and refilling the fuel tank, that is a small price to pay for the time they can save us.
> 
> Have you run any gas spreaders before? You've been in the industry long enough I would guess the answer is yes.


So long story short, you've only used a salt dogg 2000 and a boss vbx??? Both of which are hands down the worst spreaders in the industry!!! And that's what your basing your electric opinion off of? You comparing $5000 electric spreaders to a truck with $5000 in central hydraulics plus a spreader!?! Talk about apples or oranges! Run a real electric spreader next time and I'm gonna do the bucket test and spread width test on a spreader for kicks!

Was talking to a good buddy of my yesterday that runs a 10 yard spreader on a 33k truck with Allison 3000 rds and also a 5 yard spreader on the '17 f550 with live drive... he personally said he likes the electric spreaders better as everytime he slows down, or has to reverse into a corner spot, they only spread 5-10' wide and he can't get a nice spread... you don't have that problem with a electric he said, doing loading docks and corner spots... and this is on the 2 best pto transmissions available, that both offer "live drive"... I can only imagine on a truck with an allison 2250 or something similar that doesn't have live drive how frustrating it is dropping it into neutral everytime you wanted to salt in reverse or do a corner spot


----------



## Hysert

2 guys 1 bucket??? Lol

I agree that hydro are nice and gas engines in the long run are a PITA!!! However with the leaps and gains electric power has made in the last decade! (Tesla, hybrids, KERS etc...) electric power will trump everything soon!! Now a live pto with a 500+amp generator the possibilities are endless...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> One Great mind short in that equation....Thumbs Up


You're just jealous you didn't get your $.02 in.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Triple L said:


> So long story short, you've only used a salt dogg 2000 and a boss vbx??? Both of which are hands down the worst spreaders in the industry!!! And that's what your basing your electric opinion off of? You comparing $5000 electric spreaders to a truck with $5000 in central hydraulics plus a spreader!?! Talk about apples or oranges! Run a real electric spreader next time and I'm gonna do the bucket test and spread width test on a spreader for kicks!


I ran a $5k SaltMutt and a $10K POSwenson that used the same chain gearbox\motor as that one you posted a picture of.

I would have to go over something at least twice during lake effect events to get the same amount of salt (or less) down that I could with a hydro. And it still wouldn't spread as far.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Hysert said:


> However with the leaps and gains electric power has made in the last decade! (Tesla, hybrids, KERS etc...) electric power will trump everything soon!!


Leaps and gains?

I suggest you read my thread:

http://www.plowsite.com/threads/meyer-swenson-mdv.165978/


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Triple L said:


> So long story short, you've only used a salt dogg 2000 and a boss vbx??? Both of which are hands down the worst spreaders in the industry!!! And that's what your basing your electric opinion off of? You comparing $5000 electric spreaders to a truck with $5000 in central hydraulics plus a spreader!?! Talk about apples or oranges! Run a real electric spreader next time and I'm gonna do the bucket test and spread width test on a spreader for kicks
> 
> Was talking to a good buddy of my yesterday that runs a 10 yard spreader on a 33k truck with Allison 3000 rds and also a 5 yard spreader on the '17 f550 with live drive... he personally said he likes the electric spreaders better as everytime he slows down, or has to reverse into a corner spot, they only spread 5-10' wide and he can't get a nice spread... you don't have that problem with a electric he said, doing loading docks and corner spots... and this is on the 2 best pto transmissions available, that both offer "live drive"... I can only imagine on a truck with an allison 2250 or something similar that doesn't have live drive how frustrating it is dropping it into neutral everytime you wanted to salt in reverse or do a corner spot


While I haven't personally owned one, I've also used a 2250 saltdogg, and a 4ish yard Swenson electric. I don't recall for sure but I believe it was an MDV. Put probably 30 yards through the first, and 15 through the second. You've said yourself the 2250 saltdoggs are a huge improvement over the 2000. I don't see how, other than a slightly improved spread pattern. Certainly no wider.

No PTO drive here, ours is clutch pump. Don't see any reason not to keep setting them up that way. Yes hydros are expensive but they save a ton of labor. Enough to easily pay for themselves before the truck is junk.

God gave you 2 legs and 2 feet. It's as easy as holding the brake pedal a bit and giving the throttle a touch. A little operating ability and common sense goes a long way. This is literally my only complaint about hydro and it's stupid easy to fix, just like I said.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this.


----------



## Hysert

Mark Oomkes said:


> Leaps and gains?
> 
> I suggest you read my thread:
> 
> http://www.plowsite.com/threads/meyer-swenson-mdv.165978/


No doubt!!!! I'm just saying that electric power can be as powerful as hydro if you can supply the power!

As for Chads striker, I've seen it spread! And it spreads a **** ton too!!!


----------



## Triple L

please see the attached video... funny I took this video about a month ago long before this thread even existed... I would have opened the gate up all the way and had the feeder turned all the way up just to show johndeeregreen but I'll leave it at this... show me a gas spreader with a better spread pattern and the dump feature which is priceless


----------



## John_DeereGreen

The volume is there especially if you've still got more to give, but there still isn't the width. I'd love to see that same video shot during the day to see actual coverage and width.

Where you started off in that video would be 2 passes with our hydro, if we had the same conditions as the video shows. The second part of the L shape would be 2 passes, also.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Chad, I love the turning radius of the truck, that's amazing. 

Second, what exactly are the settings you have the spreader on? Spinner, auger\conveyor and the gate?


----------



## Triple L

Mark Oomkes said:


> Chad, I love the turning radius of the truck, that's amazing.
> 
> Second, what exactly are the settings you have the spreader on? Spinner, auger\conveyor and the gate?


Ya the turning radius is absolutely awesome on that truck, for such a long wheelbase (rear axle set all the back on a 11' dump body) it turns sharper then any pickup truck I own

Spinner was on 8/10, feeded on 3 or 4/10 and gate half open


----------



## John_DeereGreen

How much of a difference does it make to go from 8 to 10?


----------



## Defcon 5

John_DeereGreen said:


> How much of a difference does it make to go from 8 to 10?


about 2....10 - 8 = 2...Starting to question the schools in Ohio


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Defcon 5 said:


> about 2....10 - 8 = 2...Starting to question the schools in Ohio


If I posted what I want to, my post count would go backward.

Again.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Defcon 5 said:


> about 2....10 - 8 = 2...Starting to question the schools in Ohio


LMAO


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Defcon 5 said:


> about 2....10 - 8 = 2...Starting to question the schools in Ohio


Not if you use common crap math.


----------



## WIPensFan

John_DeereGreen, What amount of time are you looking to save with a Hydro spreader? Let's say Triple L uses the truck and spreader in his video on your 25 acre lot. How long would it take him based on seeing this video? Then, in your opinion, how long would it take you with that same truck and a hydraulic spreader? You keep saying increased production and time savings, but what kind of numbers are you looking for?


----------



## John_DeereGreen

I could easily salt the lot in Chads video in half the time in those conditions. Each section would be a pass in each direction and done.

From what the video showed, unless turning the spinner up the last 2 clicks makes a 10-15' difference in spread width, we'd take about half as long as him for the same coverage.

And I'm pretty sure @Mark Oomkes can back those statements up as well.


----------



## Hysert

Lmao.... Come on that was funny Defcon!!! 

What I don't understand about this entire thread? Is you want a hydro or gas spreader so you can move material as fast a possible!! But your original post states all you want is a 2yrd unit!!! What's the point. You will empty that thing is 4 minutes and spend more time driving to refill?? What are you putting this 2yrd on? JDG


----------



## plow4beer

John_DeereGreen said:


> I could easily salt the lot in Chads video in half the time in those conditions. Each section would be a pass in each direction and done.
> 
> From what the video showed, unless turning the spinner up the last 2 clicks makes a 10-15' difference in spread width, we'd take about half as long as him for the same coverage.
> 
> And I'm pretty sure @Mark Oomkes can back those statements up as well.


id say more like 5-10 additional ft



Hysert said:


> Lmao.... Come on that was funny Defcon!!!
> 
> What I don't understand about this entire thread? Is you want a hydro or gas spreader so you can move material as fast a possible!! But your original post states all you want is a 2yrd unit!!! What's the point. You will empty that thing is 4 minutes and spend more time driving to refill?? What are you putting this 2yrd on? JDG


I kinda see your point...but originally he was looking at gas units...then some how it ends up a debate about hyd vs elec. lol

PS. gas spreaders still suck balls


----------



## Hysert

John_DeereGreen said:


> From what the video showed, unless turning the spinner up the last 2 clicks makes a 10-15' difference in spread width, we'd take about half as long as him for the same coverage.


You can't judge from that video!! No offense Chad but your guy mite have been trying to follow a snake or something in that video.... lol... the video was intended to show how much material it's throwing!!! Yes I agree JDG, 2 maybe 3 straight passes would have covered that lot?


----------



## FredG

John_DeereGreen said:


> I could easily salt the lot in Chads video in half the time in those conditions. Each section would be a pass in each direction and done.
> 
> From what the video showed, unless turning the spinner up the last 2 clicks makes a 10-15' difference in spread width, we'd take about half as long as him for the same coverage.
> 
> And I'm pretty sure @Mark Oomkes can back those statements up as well.


This is getting blown up pretty good now. Your opinion is the only one that counts when push comes to shove, Your making the investment. Go with your gut feeling don't second guess yourself. This is turning to a gas verses diesel or new and used, We all know where that brings us. Usually the threads getting locked. You know you like the hydro and just waiting till you can convert over your whole fleet. You want the gas for now, Go with it.

If you find out you were wrong you just went to hard knox. No shame in this. Nothing but a thing. Thumbs Up


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Hysert said:


> Lmao.... Come on that was funny Defcon!!!
> 
> What I don't understand about this entire thread? Is you want a hydro or gas spreader so you can move material as fast a possible!! But your original post states all you want is a 2yrd unit!!! What's the point. You will empty that thing is 4 minutes and spend more time driving to refill?? What are you putting this 2yrd on? JDG


2 yard that we'll put side boards on to add another yard-ish.

Going in a single wheel won ton. There are a few properties that we take care of that a 2.5 yard load is perfect for.

Anyhow, I ordered an Airflo a little bit ago. Should be in next week.


----------



## Triple L

Hysert said:


> You can't judge from that video!! No offense Chad but your guy mite have been trying to follow a snake or something in that video.... lol... the video was intended to show how much material it's throwing!!! Yes I agree JDG, 2 maybe 3 straight passes would have covered that lot?


Generally when I salt that lot I do 1 pass around the parimeter then 1 down the center which is only necessary when there is snow on the ground cause the salt doesn't keep moving when it hits the pavement...


----------



## WIPensFan

John_DeereGreen said:


> I could easily salt the lot in Chads video in half the time in those conditions. Each section would be a pass in each direction and done.
> 
> From what the video showed, unless turning the spinner up the last 2 clicks makes a 10-15' difference in spread width, we'd take about half as long as him for the same coverage.
> 
> And I'm pretty sure @Mark Oomkes can back those statements up as well.


Ok, Thanks. I guess if you're cutting your time in half, then that's worth the cost of more expensive equipment. 
Plus...you're entitled to buy whatever you want.Thumbs Up


----------



## John_DeereGreen

We should be able to cover 2 pickup salt routes with this one truck. If it works out, we'll do the same thing in the fall and add another gas spreader and eliminate another truck. 

Eliminates one driver, miles, and possibly most importantly, the liability of 2 trucks on the road when the weather is bad.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> And I'm pretty sure @Mark Oomkes can back those statements up as well.


Why are you pulling me into this???


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why are you pulling me into this???


Because you talked me into buying something hydraulic.

All your fault. Yep it is.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> Because you talked me into buying something hydraulic.
> 
> All your fault. Yep it is.


Well.....in that case, why are you asking aboot gas V-boxes?


----------



## leigh

John_DeereGreen said:


> 2 yard that we'll put side boards on to add another yard-ish.
> 
> Going in a single wheel won ton. There are a few properties that we take care of that a 2.5 yard load is perfect for.
> 
> Anyhow, I ordered an Airflo a little bit ago. Should be in next week.


After this highly technical analysis I'm temped to buy one of them there "manure spreaders"Thumbs Up


----------



## WIPensFan

:laugh: Sounds like Linda from Bob's Burgers


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Well.....in that case, why are you asking aboot gas V-boxes?


They're the next best thing for baby trucks I'm hoping.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

John_DeereGreen said:


> Buyers is the same way. If you put all 3 next to each other, I see no possible way that a hydraulic and gas spreader would not absolutely kill an electric one.
> 
> How does a ~1 hp feeder motor and a ~.5 hp spinner motor produce anywhere close to the same results as a 10.5 hp gas engine, or dual hydraulic motors?
> 
> I've run a Saltmutt electric under tailgate and a hydraulic under tailgate. Both are identical except the motor type. The hydraulic absolutely smokes the electric.


The horse power ratings might be quite a bit more in the gas but what about the torque. The chain sprocket on the gas motor is much smaller then the one on the clutch to add torque. I also know that electric motors can have quite a bit of torque with enough amp draw. Its just something else to think about when comparing a 10hp gas to a 1hp electric.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

The advantage to electric motors is a fairly constant torque curve over a range of RPM, so transmissions can be simplified or eliminated. However, they are limited in power unless you really ramp up the voltage. A small gas engine typically is designed to run (make peak power) at 3000-3600 RPM (so they are available for 50-60 Hz generator applications). So the transmission needs to reduce the speed from that to whatever is needed.

Assuming decent gearing for both, the electric motor will have higher starting torque. However, assuming the gas engine can get off idle, the delivered torque will be much higher, in proportion to HP. HP=torque in lb-ft*RPM/5252.

1hp is 746 Watts. Even assiming 100% efficiency, it will take 63 Amps at 12V and 53 at 14V to make 1hp. Motor size, heat sinks, and wires get big quickly, which is why hybrids and electric vehicles run at hundreds of volts.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

BTW, for hydraulics, HP=PSI*GPM/1715


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Thank you for bringing the technical side into the discussion. 

So using math, it stands to reason there will be little comparison between the 3 power options. I don't even see how gearing and sprocket changing could make up that kind of difference.


----------



## Defcon 5

Spacly Sprockets would make a difference....Just ask George Jetson


----------



## leigh

John_DeereGreen said:


> Thank you for bringing the technical side into the discussion.
> 
> So using math, it stands to reason there will be little comparison between the 3 power options. I don't even see how gearing and sprocket changing could make up that kind of difference.


It (tries)makes up the difference but at the cost of conveyor speed.If you put an electric motor on your new airflow without a gearing change it would be unable to move the chain under load. The only way they work is with lower gearing.To make up for speed of material feed you have to open the gate more.So at less than full speed the difference between different units won't be as evident.You want full bore wide open heavy salting so a gas/hydro unit works best for you.Plus you get the wide spread pattern you want. Don't forget a nice video or pics of the new airflo!


----------



## Maclawnco

John_DeereGreen said:


> We're putting about 20 tons through our hydro truck...


Can we address this comment? 20 tons per event thru a 350/450 that you have? At 800 lbs per acre, that's 50 acres an event. Are you just the luckiest contractor ever to have the site groupings that you do or how are you putting 20 tons an event thru one truck in a reasonable time frame? 
What's everyone else doing per truck per storm? We're only doing 10 tons per truck


----------



## Defcon 5

Maclawnco said:


> Can we address this comment? 20 tons per event thru a 350/450 that you have? At 800 lbs per acre, that's 50 acres an event. Are you just the luckiest contractor ever to have the site groupings that you do or how are you putting 20 tons an event thru one truck in a reasonable time frame?
> 
> What's everyone else doing per truck per storm
> 
> ? We're only doing 10 tons per truck


You have to filter what he says....Just like his little Buddy Oomkes


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Aerospace Eng said:


> Motor size, heat sinks, and wires get big quickly, which is why hybrids and electric vehicles run at hundreds of volts.


And this is a big part of why I am convinced I had issues with the Meyer\Swenson MDV.

Wiring was far too small for the length it was and the draw of the motor, especially for continuous operation. The wire Ebling uses for back blades is at least twice as heavy as Meyer. But these morons run it straight through the controller and oot to the motors instead of using relays or solenoids and going with a heavier gauge cable.

But I'm sure they had an electrical engineer figure it all oot without considering the weight of salt or once corrosion sets in.


----------



## leigh

Maclawnco said:


> Can we address this comment? 20 tons per event thru a 350/450 that you have? At 800 lbs per acre, that's 50 acres an event. Are you just the luckiest contractor ever to have the site groupings that you do or how are you putting 20 tons an event thru one truck in a reasonable time frame?
> What's everyone else doing per truck per storm? We're only doing 10 tons per truck


I run 7 tons,one truck.Its possible to run 20 tons if you load right on site.Hate to have to drive 10 minutes each time to reload,it would take hours of time and be a waste of man/truck time. But hey, everyone has a plan and I'm in no position to judge any ones game plan from afar! Somehow we all still make $$$


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Maclawnco said:


> Can we address this comment? 20 tons per event thru a 350/450 that you have? At 800 lbs per acre, that's 50 acres an event. Are you just the luckiest contractor ever to have the site groupings that you do or how are you putting 20 tons an event thru one truck in a reasonable time frame?
> What's everyone else doing per truck per storm? We're only doing 10 tons per truck


Yes, we are extremely lucky. We cover about a 3 mile radius with that truck. One of the properties it salts is a combination of 4 properties. One is 10 acres, one is 6 acres, and one is 5.5 acres. All one large chunk of asphalt. Salt pile on site. 1/4 mile away is another 4 acres, and 2 miles from that is 8 acres. It does another right next to that that is 6, and just a shade over 10 acres downtown split between 2 factories.


----------



## Maclawnco

Here's a fun reason why electric spreaders suck. Our small salt trucks have 4 yard saltdogg electric spreaders - one truck we use every storm, the other is just a backup truck. The fuse for the vibrators blew in one of these, some how still allowed current thru and started melting the wiring harness inside the cab. Good times. Hydro for me plz.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Maclawnco said:


> Here's a fun reason why electric spreaders suck. Our small salt trucks have 4 yard saltdogg electric spreaders - one truck we use every storm, the other is just a backup truck. The fuse for the vibrators blew in one of these, some how still allowed current thru and started melting the wiring harness inside the cab. Good times. Hydro for me plz.


One of our 2 2 yard spreaders has a (mostly) broken wire in the harness somewhere right behind the controller. Discovered this morning at about 430. So if you wiggle the controller just right it works fine. If you bump it, the stupid thing shuts off.

Just like yours, another reason to not have these god forsaken electric things.


----------



## Triple L

Or get with the times and use electric salters that don't have hardly any wires in the cab... 4 miniature wires and maybe a 1/2" plug control my boss and western salters... a gas spreader would have more in cab wiring or same with an hydraulic with electronic incab controls


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Old fashion mechanical hydro controls have zero wiring to go bad. And those fancy electric spreaders have communications systems that can't be bypassed when the controller ****s it's self at 3am. 

I'm watching our hydro truck spread right now. 1/2 inch of snow on the pavement and it's spreading a 40' swath at 700 pounds an acre and 10-12 miles an hour...


----------



## Triple L

Can't wait for a hose or fitting to go bad! Enjoy


----------



## plow4beer

John_DeereGreen said:


> Old fashion mechanical hydro controls have zero wiring to go bad. And those fancy electric spreaders have communications systems that can't be bypassed when the controller ****s it's self at 3am.
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

FWIW, we've always had extra controllers for our plows/spreaders. Cheap insurance in the long haul. And guaranteed I can fix a bad elec connection faster & with less tools than a broken/busted hyd line. I'll end up a lot cleaner, as well, when done. It might need addressed again, the next day, when the "smoke clears" (no pun intended, lol)...but most elec issues are pretty easy to fix from our experiences.

Hyd setups are great, just not the end all be all answer like some think. Non-snow related things effect my decisions greatly. Snow is 2nd to our other services. I'm not gonna put my numbers out there, but I have salt routing similar to yours Jarret. I run all elec spreaders, and by comparison, to figures I see posted here, Im doing better than I used to think.

Hydro works for you Jarret, stick with it. Don't go and muck things up and buy a gas spreader, lol


----------



## John_DeereGreen

plow4beer said:


> FWIW, we've always had extra controllers for our plows/spreaders. Cheap insurance in the long haul. And guaranteed I can fix a bad elec connection faster & with less tools than a broken/busted hyd line. I'll end up a lot cleaner, as well, when done. It might need addressed again, the next day, when the "smoke clears" (no pun intended, lol)...but most elec issues are pretty easy to fix from our experiences.
> 
> Hyd setups are great, just not the end all be all answer like some think. Non-snow related things effect my decisions greatly. Snow is 2nd to our other services. I'm not gonna put my numbers out there, but I have salt routing similar to yours Jarret. I run all elec spreaders, and by comparison, to figures I see posted here, Im doing better than I used to think.
> 
> Hydro works for you Jarret, stick with it. Don't go and muck things up and buy a gas spreader, lol


Agreed, we have spare controllers also. I can't imagine not having a backup for something as finneky as electronics.

Agreed also, it is faster (and generally a lot less messy) to fix a broken wire than busted hydro line. I don't think hydro lines are terribly common to bust on this stuff though either.

I already ordered it, but they're about 5 weeks out on delivery. At that point there isn't much use to have it this season so I'm considering waiting. I would like to try an electric Striker but I also don't want to try via buying when I'm not at all satisfied with our current electric models.


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## plow4beer

John_DeereGreen said:


> Agreed, we have spare controllers also. I can't imagine not having a backup for something as finneky as electronics.
> 
> Agreed also, it is faster (and generally a lot less messy) to fix a broken wire than busted hydro line. I don't think hydro lines are terribly common to bust on this stuff though either.
> 
> I already ordered it, but they're about 5 weeks out on delivery. At that point there isn't much use to have it this season so I'm considering waiting. I would like to try an electric Striker but I also don't want to try via buying when I'm not at all satisfied with our current electric models.


Take your time deciding, since its so late now anyway...I honestly believe you would be happy with a striker & the level of performance & reliability it provides. I've/we've ran TONS of material through ours, and on many occasion where its back to back loads without leaving the property.


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## Mark Oomkes

Triple L said:


> Or get with the times and use electric salters that don't have hardly any wires in the cab... 4 miniature wires and maybe a 1/2" plug control my boss and western salters... a gas spreader would have more in cab wiring or same with an hydraulic with electronic incab controls


You convinced me, I'm going all electric after today.

My POS Monroe Municipal V-Box needs a new gearbox. Worthless piece of crap is only 17 years old. The box itself is in good condition, all original bearings, but 2 pintle chains, a handful of spinner motors and 1 gearbox in 17 years is just too dang much.

Conservatively, this thing probably only has had 9,000 tons run through it in that time. I find this high cost of repair and unreliability completely unacceptable.


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## leigh

Mark Oomkes said:


> You convinced me, I'm going all electric after today.
> 
> My POS Monroe Municipal V-Box needs a new gearbox. Worthless piece of crap is only 17 years old. The box itself is in good condition, all original bearings, but 2 pintle chains, a handful of spinner motors and 1 gearbox in 17 years is just too dang much.
> 
> Conservatively, this thing probably only has had 9,000 tons run through it in that time. I find this high cost of repair and unreliability completely unacceptable.


Man oh man.Thats so substandard.I'd scrap it ,wouldn't want that lemon to dog someone else.17 years? Its not even broken in yet. Will your business survive? Let me know if you want help to setup a gofundme account.


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## Mark Oomkes

leigh said:


> Let me know if you want help to setup a gofundme account.


So if you or I were to do this, am I obligated to spend it on a new spreader?


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## leigh

Mark Oomkes said:


> So if you or I were to do this, am I obligated to spend it on a new spreader?


 "spreader" that's such a broad term.Lots of wiggle room. Had another thought,isnt that Monroe still under warranty? Maybe they'll just give you a replacement unit,its only been 17 years.Hurry up before they get bought out by saltdogg.


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## Triple L

So today I put 3.5 ton thru my boss vbx 8000 spreader... we normally don't use it much and it's more of a backup spreader but I decided I wanted to help out salting and get things done faster this morning... well I about went crazy and took up smoking cause the thing puts out soo little salt... driving around going over everything 2 or 3 times to get a sufficient quantity or driving at 4km/h I don't know what's worse... so yes I will agree 100% kid's size electric salters suck! Glad I don't have that problem with the electric striker


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## John_DeereGreen

Your VBX is an auger isn't it Chad?


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## Mark Oomkes

Took me awhile yesterday morning to get 3.5 tons oot of my spreader yesterday........dang bearing. Had to put a pipe wrench and cheater bar to get it moving after it bound up.


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## Triple L

John_DeereGreen said:


> Your VBX is an auger isn't it Chad?


Yes... I wouldn't do that again


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## John_DeereGreen

Triple L said:


> Yes... I wouldn't do that again


Ours are auger too. Like watching paint dry...

If I could get a 30' pattern with a heavy enough rate I might consider electric. But I know gas and hydro give the width and volume. A pintle chain may give the volume but I really can't believe it'll give the width.

I pulled the plug this morning on the Airflo. Give me a little more time to figure out the best route.


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## leigh

John_DeereGreen said:


> Ours are auger too. Like watching paint dry...
> 
> If I could get a 30' pattern with a heavy enough rate I might consider electric. But I know gas and hydro give the width and volume. A pintle chain may give the volume but I really can't believe it'll give the width.
> 
> I pulled the plug this morning on the Airflo. Give me a little more time to figure out the best route.


Just a thought.If you can find an electric with a comparable feed rate it wouldn't matter if the spread was less.You would just be driving at a higher speed.It would work out the same. To bad they didn't publish the volume of material that spreaders would drop,it would make comparisons easier.


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## John_DeereGreen

leigh said:


> Just a thought.If you can find an electric with a comparable feed rate it wouldn't matter if the spread was less.You would just be driving at a higher speed.It would work out the same. To bad they didn't publish the volume of material that spreaders would drop,it would make comparisons easier.


Boss publishes cubic feet per minute on their spreaders. I wish everyone did.

I agree, if the feed rate is higher we can drive faster to cover the same area if the spread width is the same. But I'd also rather not make any more passes than needed. Especially when we're trying to get under cars as we go down drive isles.


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## Hysert

JDG have you even had a pintle electric or have they all been augar???


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## John_DeereGreen

All auger. Never had a pintle chain spreader in general.


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## Mark Oomkes

Pintle chain electric suck two.


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## Hysert

I guess so Mark lol... well I feel your judgement on electric is based off your auger spreaders which absolutely suck the most!!! IMO... however I thought I'd shoot a video thismorning of our 3.5yrd western tornado spreading, all control settings on 6 out of 10, feed gate open to 3 out of 8 which is about 3-4inch of material on the pintle chain! I don't normally run these setting usually 2 on conveyor and 4 on spinner Gate the same! I must say I've probably put 1500 ton thru it in 5 yrs and never done anything but grease and FF the chain!!! And I bought it off another guy who ran it for a yr?? For me it spreads great and the striker is even better!! Just a thought? Pls don't rip me a new a$$ lmao!!


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## Mark Oomkes

Hysert said:


> well I feel your judgement on electric is based off your auger spreaders which absolutely suck the most!!!


Except 2 of the 3 Meyer\Swenson POS were pintle chains.

Question for you guys. Late snowfall, too late to plow everything. 1.5" roughly on a big lot (I don't remember acreage right now), would you be able to put enough down in 1 pass to burn it oof? I'll try to find the acreage\hectares later.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Except 2 of the 3 Meyer\Swenson POS were pintle chains.
> 
> Question for you guys. Late snowfall, too late to plow everything. 1.5" roughly on a big lot (I don't remember acreage right now), would you
> 
> be able to put enough down in 1 pass to burn it oof? I'll try to find the acreage\hectares later.


I will answer this for them....No...


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## Hysert

I was burning off a inch thismorning on a few sites (not the video) so ya np!! Actually been salting 1+ inch snows all week... Let the pissing match continue


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## Mark Oomkes

Hysert said:


> I was burning off a inch thismorning on a few sites (not the video) so ya np!! Actually been salting 1+ inch snows all week... Let the pissing match continue


I didn't say 1".


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## John_DeereGreen

Next time we salt I'll make a decent video of ours spreading.

I made one Saturday morning but it's horrible. Auger on 1, and spinner on 8 my visual volume estimator says it's very close to the volume in both the videos in this thread.

I sent it to Mark, he can post his own thoughts. Anyone else that would like to see it I'll gladly send to you.


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## Triple L

Hysert said:


> I guess so Mark lol... well I feel your judgement on electric is based off your auger spreaders which absolutely suck the most!!! IMO... however I thought I'd shoot a video thismorning of our 3.5yrd western tornado spreading, all control settings on 6 out of 10, feed gate open to 3 out of 8 which is about 3-4inch of material on the pintle chain! I don't normally run these setting usually 2 on conveyor and 4 on spinner Gate the same! I must say I've probably put 1500 ton thru it in 5 yrs and never done anything but grease and FF the chain!!! And I bought it off another guy who ran it for a yr?? For me it spreads great and the striker is even better!! Just a thought? Pls don't rip me a new a$$ lmao!!


Man it looks like that thing spreads pretty nice too! I wouldn't question buying a 3 yard tornado with the conveyor... expecially since the new ones use the same motor and gear box as the striker


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## Hysert

Mark Oomkes said:


> I didn't say 1".


Lol!! No and I also said 1+ as well..... believe me I get hydros spread more salt!!! But JDG is wanting a new 2+yrd unit, all were trying to point out is its possible to get a reliable electric that can pound it too!


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## chachi1984

Been using a hiway gas spreader for about 4-5 years, and just got a snowex 7550 full auger on another truck.had my ups and downs with the gas spreader the first 2 years.
starting issue, conveyor problems, failing spark plug,shoveling out salt since it wouldn't start,
until the last 2 years when I hooked the salter up to the truck battery . I havent had a problem starting it since.
snowex 7550 was bought used so took a few weeks to work out the kinks.We had some bumper plug issues but worked it out. Controller power switch going. Other than that I really like the spreader just turn it on and go.
GAS pros, can leave salt in longer ,No error codes to deal with,
Cons, can be hard to start,more moving parts to fix,more adjustements,conveyor/clutch/gearcase weight issue.

Electic Pros-snowex- less niose, less parts,bit more easy to work on at home, starts more often, no weight problem so far
Cons, error codes, auger and spinner always on ten lowest,cant leave salt inside too long,

Overall im not too sure what I would get next. replacement parts are exspensive for both.
Don't like the idea of error codes tripping the controller over loose plug connection on the snowex.
But ive had far less head aches in the first year with the snowex than i did with the gas


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## Aerospace Eng

With the thread digressing into a discussion of gas/hydraulic/electric, and having no experience myself......

I was wondering about how a hydraulic spreader with a hydraulic power pack rather than central hydros would do. I googled around, and Torwell makes a gas over hydraulic unit. It has a 5 or so HP Honda running a hydraulic pump. It seems like they took a few shortcuts (spreader and conveyor can't be controlled separately, speed control based on speed of engine rather than on position of a valve). It would be underpowered compared to a true central hydraulic unit, probably close to a gas unit, and stronger than an electric unit. 

Has anyone run one?


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## John_DeereGreen

Aerospace Eng said:


> With the thread digressing into a discussion of gas/hydraulic/electric, and having no experience myself......
> 
> I was wondering about how a hydraulic spreader with a hydraulic power pack rather than central hydros would do. I googled around, and Torwell makes a gas over hydraulic unit. It has a 5 or so HP Honda running a hydraulic pump. It seems like they took a few shortcuts (spreader and conveyor can't be controlled separately, speed control based on speed of engine rather than on position of a valve). It would be underpowered compared to a true central hydraulic unit, probably close to a gas unit, and stronger than an electric unit.
> 
> Has anyone run one?


I tried to contact them about one of those units but never got any response. I may look harder this summer, and see what would be involved with putting an electric valve in with cab controller for the separate control.

I'm also considering at this point a DRWF350 or another 450/550 and just doing another hydro truck.


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## leigh

To bad they couldn't figure a way to replace the gas motor with an electric motor to power the hydro pumps,eliminate the gas motor issues.Maybe when they develop a higher hp electric thats cost effective and has a lower power requirement. Or just cut to the chase and add central hydros. Out of curiosity,whats the approx. cost to set up central hydros ?


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## Aerospace Eng

It wouldn't make sense to run hydros off of electric. If you have big enough electric motors to run the hydraulics, they are big enough to run the conveyor and spinner directly.


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## leigh

Aerospace Eng said:


> It wouldn't make sense to run hydros off of electric. If you have big enough electric motors to run the hydraulics, they are big enough to run the conveyor and spinner directly.


 Thats exactly my thoughts about the gas over hydro torwell,a gas engine has plenty of power on its own with a simple trouble free gearbox.Seems redundant to me,but its not like I've given it more than a passing thought lol


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## Aerospace Eng

leigh said:


> Thats exactly my thoughts about the gas over hydro torwell,a gas engine has plenty of power on its own with a simple trouble free gearbox.Seems redundant to me,but its not like I've given it more than a passing thought lol


The problem with a gas direct drive is that the engine RPM is directly related to the spinner and conveyor speed. However, the maximum power that you have depends on speed as well. So unless you are running at full RPM, you can't develop full horsepower, but full RPM may be more throw than you want in all cases. Also, if the load starts to increase, the engine may lug down, which reduces the horsepower, which may reduce the RPM further, etc.

You can think of hydraulics on a gas motor as being an infinitely variable transmission. You can get full horsepower delivered at low speed (large amounts of torque) to help break things loose, but you can also get very high speed if the torque isn't required. It would also allow (although not the way Torwell does it) independent control of the spinner speed and conveyor. You give up about 20% of your horsepower to fluid frictional losses.

It's a similar choice as to why skid steers, boom lifts, excavators and the like don't directly drive the wheels with shafts, but trucks, tractors, and loaders do.


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## John_DeereGreen

I can't for the life of me figure out why Torwell didn't design that spreader with independent controls. Nor can I figure out what the reasoning behind buying it over a standard gas unit would be.



leigh said:


> To bad they couldn't figure a way to replace the gas motor with an electric motor to power the hydro pumps,eliminate the gas motor issues.Maybe when they develop a higher hp electric thats cost effective and has a lower power requirement. Or just cut to the chase and add central hydros. Out of curiosity,whats the approx. cost to set up central hydros ?


It depends on how you set them up, and who does the work. Anywhere from 2-6k. There is a ton of labor in getting the hoses run so they last. Seems like as the trucks get bigger, the cost goes down. More room to mount pumps, and to run hoses easily and safely.

Typical clutch pump system for 250-550 size trucks here locally runs 4-5k. And yes, it's worth every cent.

One thing our next new setup will have after I've used ours and seen the consistency of application vary more than I'd like is GPS controlled electric over hydraulic controllers.

Oh. And no more under tailgate bs. V boxes only from here on out. The more I use it and see it used, the more I hate the damn thing.


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## Maclawnco

John_DeereGreen said:


> .
> 
> I'm also considering at this point a DRWF350 or another 450/550 and just doing another hydro truck.


If you want more hydros, I've got six dot trucks I'm going to be selling next week 33 - 38 k GVW. Small suitcase of cash and you're in business.


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## Triple L

John_DeereGreen said:


> I can't for the life of me figure out why Torwell didn't design that spreader with independent controls. Nor can I figure out what the reasoning behind buying it over a standard gas unit would be.
> 
> It depends on how you set them up, and who does the work. Anywhere from 2-6k. There is a ton of labor in getting the hoses run so they last. Seems like as the trucks get bigger, the cost goes down. More room to mount pumps, and to run hoses easily and safely.
> 
> Typical clutch pump system for 250-550 size trucks here locally runs 4-5k. And yes, it's worth every cent.
> 
> One thing our next new setup will have after I've used ours and seen the consistency of application vary more than I'd like is GPS controlled electric over hydraulic controllers.
> 
> Oh. And no more under tailgate bs. V boxes only from here on out. The more I use it and see it used, the more I hate the damn thing.


If your buying a ford wouldn't it make more sense to use the live drive pto over a clutch pump?


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## Triple L

leigh said:


> To bad they couldn't figure a way to replace the gas motor with an electric motor to power the hydro pumps,eliminate the gas motor issues.Maybe when they develop a higher hp electric thats cost effective and has a lower power requirement. Or just cut to the chase and add central hydros. Out of curiosity,whats the approx. cost to set up central hydros ?


http://www.henderson-mfg.com/charge.html

It's been done

The single best part about an electric system is the ease of switching it over from truck to truck... if you decide you don't like the truck anymore it's an afternoon worth of work to swith the electric salter onto a different truck... this is my biggest upside as I can't seem to keep a truck for more then 3 years lol


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## Mark Oomkes

What aboot a girlfriend?


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> What aboot a girlfriend?


Sounds like the "Girlfriend" is that spreader...He is in Love with it...


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## leigh

Triple L said:


> http://www.henderson-mfg.com/charge.html
> 
> It's been done
> 
> The single best part about an electric system is the ease of switching it over from truck to truck... if you decide you don't like the truck anymore it's an afternoon worth of work to swith the electric salter onto a different truck... this is my biggest upside as I can't seem to keep a truck for more then 3 years lol


Love to see the sticker price for that system!


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## John_DeereGreen

Thanks for the offer Mac but those trucks are going to be too big for us. A 4300 is the largest I would want. Plus they're useless except for salt and they're all CDL I'm sure.



Triple L said:


> If your buying a ford wouldn't it make more sense to use the live drive pto over a clutch pump?


The up fitter we typically use doesn't like to do PTO hydraulics for spreaders. Not sure why, I never asked and don't really care. Clutch pumps are cheaper and its separate of the transmission so there's no worry there. Just a dump hoist, I would consider PTO.


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## Maclawnco

John_DeereGreen said:


> Thanks for the offer Mac but those trucks are going to be too big for us. A 4300 is the largest I would want. Plus they're useless except for salt and they're all CDL I'm sure.


If you do patios like your website says you do, going to be perfectly useful to haul stone for those jobs. It's completely legal for an eight ton load. The one that I'm thinking of we've done about every major repair to.


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## John_DeereGreen

Maclawnco said:


> If you do patios like your website says you do, going to be perfectly useful to haul stone for those jobs. It's completely legal for an eight ton load. The one that I'm thinking of we've done about every major repair to.


No website or patios here. You must have me confused with someone else.


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## plow4beer

Mark Oomkes said:


> Except 2 of the 3 Meyer\Swenson POS were pintle chains.
> 
> Question for you guys. Late snowfall, too late to plow everything. 1.5" roughly on a big lot (I don't remember acreage right now), would you be able to put enough down in 1 pass to burn it oof? I'll try to find the acreage\hectares later.


Yep, just couldn't drive as fast. :waving:


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## Mark Oomkes

plow4beer said:


> Yep, just couldn't drive as fast. :waving:


No comments from the :terribletowel:gallery.


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## John_DeereGreen

Stay tuned for what appears to be a rather interesting project on the horizon...

It'll be a few months before completion, but if it works it'll be like mobile central hydraulics.


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## leigh

John_DeereGreen said:


> Stay tuned for what appears to be a rather interesting project on the horizon...
> 
> It'll be a few months before completion, but if it works it'll be like mobile central hydraulics.


I'm giddy with anticipation, I'll be "waiting with bated breath" . Oh,and aren't central hydraulics already mobile since they're mounted on a truck? Will it be "electric" ?:hammerhead:


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> Stay tuned for what appears to be a rather interesting project on the horizon...
> 
> It'll be a few months before completion, but if it works it'll be like mobile central hydraulics.


You're such a tease............


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## John_DeereGreen

leigh said:


> I'm giddy with anticipation, I'll be "waiting with bated breath" . Oh,and aren't central hydraulics already mobile since they're mounted on a truck? Will it be "electric" ?:hammerhead:


Mobile as in mobile from truck to truck as needed, as easy as it is to switch an electric spreader.

And yes, "electric" is involved. 


Mark Oomkes said:


> You're such a tease............


I can't take any credit for the ideas that are being developed, nor do I know if they will work in a practical application. Once we make some progress I'll send you some pictures.


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## extremepusher

sounds like a Honda box set-up..


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## Mark Oomkes

extremepusher said:


> sounds like a Honda box set-up..


Had one, wouldn't go through the hassle again.


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## extremepusher

lol


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## Defcon 5

A mobile Electric-Hydraulic Expandable Meyers Spreader?


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## leigh

I'm flush with cash due to the massive volume and spreading ability of my ultimately super-duper utg electric salter,do you need any seed money or an obnoxious non-silent partner? Like a low-fi "kickinthebuttstarter" or "gofundyourself". Maybe we can all get in the game.payup


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## John_DeereGreen

Defcon 5 said:


> A mobile Electric-Hydraulic Expandable Meyers Spreader?


Leave it to Madsen to hit the nail on the head.


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## plow4beer

Mark Oomkes said:


> No comments from the :terribletowel:gallery.


too bad lol



John_DeereGreen said:


> Mobile as in mobile from truck to truck as needed, as easy as it is to switch an electric spreader.
> 
> And yes, "electric" is involved.
> 
> I can't take any credit for the ideas that are being developed, nor do I know if they will work in a practical application. Once we make some progress I'll send you some pictures.


interested, but very skeptical...will be waiting for the update


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## Triple L

Sounds awesome! What's so bad about a hondabox mark? Thought that was the way to go for ebling plows?


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## HeatherMiller

plow4beer said:


> Take your time deciding, since its so late now anyway...I honestly believe you would be happy with a striker & the level of performance & reliability it provides. I've/we've ran TONS of material through ours, and on many occasion where its back to back loads without leaving the property.


----------

