# How do I bid snow removal



## Jeremy1981 (6 mo ago)

Hey everyone! My name is Jeremy. So I just got myself a plow truck. I have been plowing for a guy the last few seasons and I had nothing to do with bids,or giving estimates. I am in Northern MN (Tower-lake Vermillion area). But I will extend out to surrounding towns as well. My question is. How do I bid correctly? I just ordered a salt spreader and also have a snowblower if need. I'm not sure if I should stick to residential my first year or jump into commercial and do both. Any input on both aspects will be appreciated. Thanks.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I'll be the first to throw out the required: "Do you have insurance?"


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## Jeremy1981 (6 mo ago)

Yes.


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## Jeremy1981 (6 mo ago)

cwren2472 said:


> I'll be the first to throw out the required: "Do you have insurance?"


Yes


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

You have commercial auto insurance with snow plowing rider?
General liability, umbrella?
Comp?

After that figure out what the market will bear, what you are best at, factor risk [slip, accident, etc], frequency of servicing, routing, backup equipment, etc.

Try either being a sub or residential to start out.


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## Jeremy1981 (6 mo ago)

Kvston said:


> You have commercial auto insurance with snow plowing rider?
> General liability, umbrella?
> Comp?
> 
> ...


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

If your full time job won't tolerate missed days in the winter, or you showing up like a zombie from plowing an overnight event, then put a stop to your plans to plow snow.

However, if they're flexible with your new venture, subbing out to other contractors is a great way to gain experience and keep your exposure to a minimum. Now is a great time to reach out to other contractors, as many of them should be game planning their staffing setup now for their commercial clients. I'm not sure what the market is like up in the Iron Range, but down here in the cities, most of the "old guard" of plow operators and subcontractors are leaving the industry - this means guys like you are somewhat in the drivers' seat.


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## Jeremy1981 (6 mo ago)

I've been plowing the last few years for a guy. My job is tolerant as long as I work. I just figured I'd venture out on my own. I was going to try residential and sub contracting to other contractors. I just don't know what to charge. The guy I worked for never talked about pricing..


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Well I’m not in the residential game anymore due to no $ being in it with inflation and such. BEFORE brandon minimum charge was $50. First year of Brandon I didn’t make anything on $60/per.

FWIW the minimum sub rate offered to me a year ago was $155/hr for truck/plow/shoveler. That was a starting rate. With zero insurance liability, slip and fall risk, etc.

IMO know your numbers. Takes a lot of work, but you have to learn the costs of being in business, the risk-what the costs-and your acceptable profit margin. Like anything else, the more you know, the more you make.


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Cat got your tongue @Mark Oomkes ? Another Dutch thing?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Kvston said:


> Cat got your tongue @Mark Oomkes ? Another Dutch thing?


Figure overhead, labor, profit. 

Determine how long the job is going to take. 

Estimate how many billable hours you will have. 

Divide overhead, labor and profit by billable hours and multiply that by how long the job is going to take. 

Then take into account the going rate in one's market and raise or lower prices accordingly. 

Happy?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Happy


Not really


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Figure overhead, labor, profit.
> 
> Determine how long the job is going to take.
> 
> ...


Fair to middling.


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## Jeremy1981 (6 mo ago)

I see contractors advertising most the winter looking for people. I am going to reach out to some of them and then do some residential as well. With the sub contracting is that usually so much per push or hourly? The last guy I plowed for I was payed hourly but I also used his truck. This season I'll have my own equipment. Thanks for all the info on things. I appreciate it.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Figure overhead, labor, profit.
> 
> Determine how long the job is going to take.
> 
> ...


You're supposed to say "whatever your competitor is charging less 5%"

If thats too much typing, its acceptable to just say "$50"


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

cwren2472 said:


> You're supposed to say "whatever your competitor is charging less 5%"
> 
> If thats too much typing, its acceptable to just say "$50"


Is that a typo, like the 10 skid steer guy?


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Jeremy1981 said:


> I see contractors advertising most the winter looking for people. I am going to reach out to some of them and then do some residential as well. With the sub contracting is that usually so much per push or hourly? The last guy I plowed for I was payed hourly but I also used his truck. This season I'll have my own equipment. Thanks for all the info on things. I appreciate it.


Typically around here things are per push. Hourly comes in on larger properties or emergency situations.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Jeremy1981 said:


> With the sub contracting is that usually so much per push or hourly?


Personally, I've only paid a sub by the hour. But I usually had a piece of equipment working with them, so it would have been a bit difficult to figure out a per push price.

Depending on who you work for, you could try for a per push payment so you get rewarded for efficiency. 

Just as an FYI. I don't know your area, but there is no way in God's green earth I would or could get the rates @Kvston is getting. Pricing for plowing and subs is extremely regional.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Is that a typo, like the 10 skid steer guy?


Sure


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Is that a typo, like the 10 skid steer guy?


He actually had 100?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Jeremy1981 said:


> I see contractors advertising most the winter looking for people. I am going to reach out to some of them and then do some residential as well


Not sure if you have an actual 9-5...you said as long as the work gets done your boss is ok with it. So my statement is this....
If your subbing and the storm is going for sometime, and your not able to leave to get your residential customers, who's gunna do it? And then what about your real job?


Jeremy1981 said:


> With the sub contracting is that usually so much per push or hourly?


I have always been hourly, and other then the last 3 years I thought it was fair.


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## Jeremy1981 (6 mo ago)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Personally, I've only paid a sub by the hour. But I usually had a piece of equipment working with them, so it would have been a bit difficult to figure out a per push price.
> 
> Depending on who you work for, you could try for a per push payment so you get rewarded for efficiency.
> 
> Just as an FYI. I don't know your area, but there is no way in God's green earth I would or could get the rates @Kvston is getting. Pricing for plowing and subs is extremely regional.





dieselss said:


> Not sure if you have an actual 9-5...you said as long as the work gets done your boss is ok with it. So my statement is this....
> If your subbing and the storm is going for sometime, and your not able to leave to get your residential customers, who's gunna do it? And then what about your real job?
> 
> I have always been hourly, and other then the last 3 years I thought it was fair.


I do have a 9-5. But the doors being closed by the 1st of the year are very likely from what we are being told. Business just slowed down and the owner wants to retire. A couple other shops opened up that are charging low rates. So it's messing up other ones. Not sure how they profit. But anyway, if this becomes something I can profit good on for the winter. I can be out as long as needed. Would like to venture out and work for myself but I am treading lightly. Need to do it right. But as far as being out for long periods of time. It's not a problem. Residential I guess I wouldn't sign contracts. Just tell them I will be there after the storm. So they know. Otherwise just stick to sub contracting.


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## Jeremy1981 (6 mo ago)

I still have allot to figure out. Again I appreciate the input. This is helping me out.


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

FWIW doing things halfway normally doesn’t pan out. Being cautious is good-think through things. Again FWIW. You know you.


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## Jeremy1981 (6 mo ago)

Kvston said:


> FWIW doing things halfway normally doesn’t pan out. Being cautious is good-think through things. Again FWIW. You know you.


I know. I appreciate it.


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