# Chevy owners w/ cracked frames i need your help!!



## PetalsandPines

You may have saw my post regarding my 2007 Chevy Silverado 3500 Dually / Diesel 4x4 with an 810 blizzard plow where the frame cracked right by the Shock Towers as documented on this website by other threads.... but I need your help now....It seems that this keeps being swept under the rug by gm reps all over and I have just contacted my insurance company that needs any and all supporting documentation from other vehicle owners to solidify this claim and expose the truth. My frame rails are cracked 3/4 the way through on both sides of the truck in the same spot. My chevy dealer has given me the runaround, the gm rep gave the chevy dealer the run around.....a lawsuit will take too long considering this is my main vehicle and the truck only has 58,000 miles on it with a balance due of $19,000 +++......The claims dept wants to see my vehicle in the next two days and the rep from the insurance company told me to get as much documentation as possible as this may open a big can of worms. I am so glad we noticed this prior to cracking all the way through and me getting killed on the interstate.....Please help me blow the cover on this!!! I understand some people may say gusset it or slap some plates on it...but come on now its only a 2007!! If you noticed the 2011 frames have been redesigned and this trouble area no longer exists...please only people with the classic body style. (Dont know how long this type of setup has been used) Respectfully, Brian

PLEASE POST PICTURES!!!!


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## watatrp

Contact B&B. He seems to know a lot about this problem. He's the guy that has been helping us out by fabricating the gusset plates for different frame styles.


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## lilweeds

Get over it and just fix the thing. The only time it happens is if there are no gussets and you are abusing the truck. Meaning, overloading it, stacking snow, and using it like a bull dozer. I have more miles then you do on my 06. I put gussets on it my second year plowing to CMA, but with the way I use it it probably wouldn't have broken. Also I wish you luck because if they weigh your front axle with the plow on I guarantee you'll be over the FAWR.


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## PetalsandPines

*Seriously???*

Are you ignorant??? Seriously???

Read my location...Buffalo NY.....not east central PA
Our first snowfall of the season was 41" of heavy lake effect snow in 24 hours.....please dont tell me how to plow....I've been doing it for 20 years and havent had a truck EVER do this, the frame is tweaked sideways and I'm not going to deal with steering components going bad every year....Its a 3500 Dump Truck for God's sake.....if i wanted to hear crap...then i would have put a thousand pound plow on a chevy 1500....Its a $42,000 truck...this should not happen...PERIOD.


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## PetalsandPines

Anyone got some 2x4's and some baling wire...i'll throw a quick fix on it......come on now be serious.


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## Dewey

I'm with you !!! I have a 99 Gmc,, 1 Ton duelley with a 6.5 diesel that has 105,000 I had problems with the frame cracking, I think the first time was about 4 years ago...I have plated it and had issues again this year ,,, Put a longer and heavier plate hopefully that will take care of it... I didn't see the posts about the gussets until after the last repair.... If I get through this winter without anymore problems I will gusset it before next winter.
Yes I do work the truck.. BUT I don't beat on it,, I plow period.....I would think that for as long as trucks have been built they should have it figured out by now how to build a dependable truck.... :realmad: I could go on about the issues I have had with the 6.5 but that is another post that I am sure has been discussed many times... 
Good luck with whatever happens with your frame issues.. I only wish that there was a recall on thers years ago !!!!


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## PetalsandPines

*Thanks*

Thanks man.....I too just read about the gussets after the frame cracked...its pretty sad that my backup truck a 1997 Ford-F350 with a meyer plow outlasted an 04 Chevy 8.1 3500 dually and the 07.. Ride in that ford and you know you're in a solid truck....Chevy I might as well sit back grab a latte and pet a ****zu with a ribbon its hair


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## Dewey

PetalsandPines;1232928 said:


> Thanks man.....I too just read about the gussets after the frame cracked...its pretty sad that my backup truck a 1997 Ford-F350 with a meyer plow outlasted an 04 Chevy 8.1 3500 dually and the 07.. Ride in that ford and you know you're in a solid truck....Chevy I might as well sit back grab a latte and pet a ****zu with a ribbon its hair


I too retired an older truck that I wish now I fixed up and kept.... I had a "86" Chev K-30 I plowed more and hauled more with that truck Than my 99 will ever do !!I sold it because the cab was rustin away I only wish now I had put a new cab on it !!! The last thing I ever worried about was the frame cracking ussmileyflag

Thats when they made a truck a truck.... Now they all seem to be Sissy Wanna be trucks xysport Pass me a Latte !!!


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## chris694205

i own 2 97s and one 03 and i keep checking for the frame cracks.. but im going to be putting the gussets on this week or next depending on time.. My mechanic told me its becuase the frame rusts from the inside out, becuase there are no drains in the frame?


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

chris694205;1233162 said:


> i own 2 97s and one 03 and i keep checking for the frame cracks.. but im going to be putting the gussets on this week or next depending on time.. My mechanic told me its becuase the frame rusts from the inside out, becuase there are no drains in the frame?


Your mechanic is an idiot


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## wizardsr

Take it to a reputable frame shop, they'll push it back together, weld it, then plate it. Good to go. I just went through this a couple months ago with my 2005 F350 (yes, Fords crack frames too believe it or not!), it only cost me $300 including plating the other side as well as a preventative measure, and it was back on the road plowing the next day. Time is money, screw your GM dealer, get your truck fixed and back on the road. What's your time worth, and how long will it take to make back the few hundred dollars to fix the truck versus chasing your tail with GM. Thumbs Up


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

You won't win the fight with GM. Did the frame break, yes were you over fawr yes. You loose


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## watatrp

When I was doing research on this problem, I compiled a bunch of responses by B&B. He seems to have a lot of knowledge about Chevys and this particular problem. I did this mod to my 96 Tahoe and find comfort in knowing that B&B has never seem a frame with the gussets develop a crack. 

Here are the comments:

Best to take an offense rather than a defense in this instance. Saves a ton of cash later and once they're broke in two they're never the same afterward.

With good fabrication skills it can be repaired. But they're a pain when they're broke on the inboard side.

Which is why I've been touting it for a while now...add the gussets in the first place and none of it is an issue. I've yet to see one break at the control arm mount with the gussets installed. Takes an hour and a half's worth of work to avoid the issue entirely in the first place.



And yes, GM has known of the issue for a long time.

Yes that is the upper control arm mount where it attaches to the frame and thats not the first one I've seen broken like that either. I've fixed several '88-'98 OBS trucks with the same problem. And so far I've seen two of the '01-up HD's the same way. One was a '01 extended cab with an 8.2 Boss V and the other was an '04 reg cab with an 8 ft Boss straight blade with wings. Some guys might not know it but GM added a small triangle gusset to this area as extra support so I'm sure their well aware of the problem (not that they'll admit to it) The dumb part of it though is that they only seem to add the gusset to the 3500 cab and chassis and the 2500,3500 crew cabs. At least that's the only models I've found them on so far. If you look at the second pic on the right, you can see the extra triangle gusset at the connection point between the frame rail and the upper control arm mount. That's right where they alway seem to break on trucks that don't have the extra gusset. GM need's to step up to the plate and put the gussets on all the chassis's regardless of cab configuration or at the very least include them in the plow prep package.

Good deal Mark, the frame cracking problem is much more common than most guys with these trucks realize...as I've fixed many, and seen many broken that the owners didn't even know it...yet! I'm surprised their isn't more guys on here that have had frame problems.. IMO, this is a very important mod to do to these trucks. 

I'm sure you have your fair share of these under your belt too. ...Have you ever seen a truck WITH the gusset's crack/break there? I've seen many break, but never one with the gussets...factory or add on. Your thoughts?

Basically the same thing that makes them break behind the upper C arm mount.. the weight of the plow trying to bow or "arch" the frame..and a spreader or ballast near the tailgate, or a rear plow just add's to the arching force..since it's now trying to arch it from BOTH ends. They break behind the cab since it's the next weakest point next to the C-arm mounting point plus it's not in a boxed section of the frame, it's in the section that's just C channeled. It's also an excellent spot to add the 1/4" strap you mentioned before (like the older Ford C+C used), as it's easy to remove the bed for access to the top of the frame.

I've also seen a couple 88-98's break from the bottom up...and I couldn't believe it the first time I saw one. And as far as I can see it's due to the twisting and flexing that most any truck would endure in it's use, and I think the extra weight of the plow just compounds the stress more than a truck without a plow would not see. I did go over all this one time with an engineer friend of mine, and after I gave him all the frame and weight specs on the trucks and plows, and what type of use they were exposed to, he pretty much agreed that it could in fact cause the cracking issue from the bottom up..

Have you ever tried adding a gusset to all 4 upper and lower C-arm brackets to try and distribute the stress over a larger area by getting it off the weld points at the frame/C-arm connections? I've haven't done it yet but I think it would help..I don't think it's the ultimate answer but I think it would be a benefit without to much time or expense involved.

Its due to the fact that the upper rear C-arm mounting location is the most critically stressed point on the entire front frame section when a plow is added. And is why when the trucks DID come with the gussets as factory equipped, thats the only location GM placed them...and their were no breakage issues on those frames in any other locations...or on frames that owners have had the gussets added to. Sure you can add all the extra gussets you want if your a belt and suspenders kinda guy, but the upper rear is the only place that their actually needed to prevent breakage.


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## PetalsandPines

*Thanks for the info.*

Thanks for the information.


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## NBI Lawn

As already stated. Your FAWR is 4800lbs, the plow weighs 1000lbs+ which means you were 300+lbs over the FAWR (the way I figure it). I don't believe there is really a problem until the trucks are over weight. At that point though it isn't GM's fault and that is a chance owners are taking.

Bring your truck to a frame shop, have them weld it up and gusset it. It will be just fine.


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## NBI Lawn

PetalsandPines;1232900 said:


> Are you ignorant??? Seriously???
> 
> Read my location...Buffalo NY.....not east central PA
> Our first snowfall of the season was 41" of heavy lake effect snow in 24 hours.....please dont tell me how to plow....I've been doing it for 20 years and havent had a truck EVER do this, the frame is tweaked sideways and I'm not going to deal with steering components going bad every year....Its a 3500 Dump Truck for God's sake.....if i wanted to hear crap...then i would have put a thousand pound plow on a chevy 1500....*Its a $42,000 truck...this should not happen...PERIOD*.


Unless the truck is over weight.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

I bet he's more than 300lbs over, it has a dump body on it and it's a diesel. Think about this... if the truck started life as a pickup it's only good for 11,400gvw if it's a cab and chassis it's 12,000gvw all the while the front is only rated at 4800lbs. The truck EMPTY without the plow is probably close to 8000lbs now hang 1000lbs off the front even with the 900lbs in the back of the truck I bet he's 6-700lbs over


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## PetalsandPines

Ok ...lets all drop it now....you guys are right....Right??? I hope Karma slaps you in the face when something out of your control happens and you see your hard work and $$$$ go down the drain with no recourse.....Bottom line....Chevy should not have a plow prep package, Plows should not be allowed on trucks and if they do it should only be for personal use and max. 3 inches of fluffy snow. And all the plow companies that create those plows and sponsor this site should just cheapen the products to conform to a cheaply built and poorly designed vehicle.....But just know something.....The dealers know about this problem because all the body shop managers I talked to today said they have either seen this before or have personally heard of it..... Oh by the way those buying the new trucks with the "urea" emission controls...God love ya, you got a big issue on your hands according to the largest chevy dealer here. ussmileyflag buy AMerican!!


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## simoncx

Urea is another bag of worms, I really don't know if I'll buy another diesel with all the emissions that are on the new ones. As far as your frame, I wouldn't waste my time with the dealer because it probably won't get you anywhere and just cause alot of unwanted stress. Take it to a welder and have them weld the frame back together, gusset it and plate the frame so it won't cause more problems. It shouldn't cost that much and it will be stronger then before.


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## affekonig

I'm pretty sure that the plow prep package wasn't offered with the diesel in '07. "Should" the frame crack? No frame "should" crack, but it also shouldn't be carrying more weight than it was meant to. I also think it would be interesting to see if there's a correltation between plow brands and the cracks. Nobody ever mentions the possiblity that it may have something to do with the way the plow is mounted to the frame and where/how it stresses the truck.


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## CT-TILEMAN

NBI Lawn;1233789 said:


> As already stated. Your FAWR is 4800lbs, the plow weighs 1000lbs+ which means you were 300+lbs over the FAWR (the way I figure it). I don't believe there is really a problem until the trucks are over weight. At that point though it isn't GM's fault and that is a chance owners are taking.
> 
> Bring your truck to a frame shop, have them weld it up and gusset it. It will be just fine.





NBI Lawn;1233798 said:


> Unless the truck is over weight.


I had a long post typed up but figured I would state the following, if GM builds a truck with a plow prep package you should be able to put a plow on it period.

The weight ratings are more for towing rather than plowing because of the stock braking system and not so much the ability of the truck to carry the weight.

I think you are in here breaking his balls because you drive a Dodge and instead of offering some help your in here breaking his balls about a possible overloading of the front axle when in reality you don't know if it is overloaded.

:waving:


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## PetalsandPines

Thank you Tile Man...
Listen people, the economy is killing alot of us who either own businesses or have been forced out of their job into doing this as an extra revenue source...one thing that we all can agree on is that we trust these auto companies, we trust these plow dealers to sell us the best possible piece of equipment. We are investing in our profitability...you guys who want a pissing match over dodge, chevy, ford....GVW's...I refuse to get involved. Simple fact is we trust them and invest our hard earned money to make money. People hire you to remove snow....Are you going to stop plowing because the snow is too heavy??? You are too tired that night?? You cant afford the gas anymore??? NO... your customers would crawl so far up your ass and you know it...you would honor your contractual agreement...I'm simply dissapointed that I cant get any help from those who sold me a bill of goods and in turn told me ....no you're wrong and you have no recourse. If you or I did this we would get hauled into court, the attorney general would be riding our asses. So why cant i be pissed over this...Why should I be afraid of GM ??? We bailed them out...everyone of us.....And what do we get in return? Every year the products are getting more and more inferior...I love the duramax/allison combo...its the best damn pushing machine i've ever owned....But what good is having all this power and torque on a weak frame?? A weak front end??? There are a lot of cases like mine out there as I am finding out more and more...we should not have to install gussets (although that was a brilliant idea by BB) Chevy should be doing it...Whats an extra $30 in materials. You buy a $40,000 truck and the seats are made of paper thin vinyl, the front end pieces just snap in with plastic pieces, the hinges are cheap, there is no power windows...cruise control...blah blah blah.... However, think of who buys a majority of these vehicles...Municipalities, Government, Utility Companies..etc...There is a built in market for them and chevy knows it...I bet you if i was a purchasing director of a NY municipal truck fleet and this problem came up....you better believe it GM would have bent over backwards for me...but who am I??? One guy, One small business?? That is the reason I brought this to the forum...not a pissing contest....i wanted to see strength in numbers for us snowplowers...we are not unionized....we cant just say Screw you to GM and have them buckle at their knees....they laugh at us..stupid Americans who wave our flag and buy Chevy or Ford for life. Come on guys, enough is enough! There is enough of us that got screwed on this problem to make our voices heard. Thats all im asking. Take Care


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## PetalsandPines

*0h and one more thing*

There is another thing that seems to contribute to the front end weight issue with certain plows...We had a monster storm in December...in which many of the municipal plow trucks just got caught way off guard....It was 41 inches in 24 hours of the heaviest wettest snow I have ever seen....yet the ground was not frozen.....what happened was the street crews were to late to respond and incredible ice ruts developed in the WNY area....Even if you were going 5 miles an hour down these streets you would hit these ruts and bam your front end would drop and jump up along with the plow....I cant even begin to tell you how nervous that made me. The blizzards especially would jump up and down and just slam on the front end of the truck.....How does one account for or measure the sheer weight and gravity of this occuring down all the roads.....Have you ever gone over a train crossing and have the truck bottom out on the other side of it and just cringe knowing "that cant be good for the truck" now imagine adding a 1000 lb plow to the equation.....Maybe its not just about front end tolerances but also the condition of roads when you are out plowing in the depths of a major winter storm.....just a thought?


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## simoncx

Thats one of the major problems with alot of companies these days, all they care about is getting there product sold and once it's out the door they could careless, bascially ***-you it's your problem. I went through it last year when my powerstroke blew up and ford said it's not there problem.


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## Dewey

Well sadi Petals..... I too bought my truck thinking I was buying a tuff work truck.... What i bought was a piece of crap....I wish something could be done but like you said once its sold its sold..... They don't care .... GRRRR


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## Tony350

Petals and pines sorry to hear about your problems. I agree with you, yes you can take it to a welder and have it fixed fairly cheap. However I would feel the same way you do. Stand behind what you do. I run a real small welding shop and believe in standing behind what I do and I would want the companies I deal with to do the same. I don't have a chevy but if I did and had the same problems I would be helping you in any way I could. I think chevy should do a recall and gusset them themselves. Good luck wiht dealing with them.


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## pmorrissette

If your Dealer and/or GM has denied warranty coverage, then legally you have presented them the opportunity to fix something which you believe is thier responsibilty.

Ultimately, I think the goal is to get you truck fixed reliably and back on the road earning revenue as soon as possible.

If it were me, since the Dealer & GM have declined to fix it, I would bring it to a reputable welder, get the thing fixed and gusseted, then put it back in service.

Afterwards, I would take a copy of the invoice and file a claim in Small Claims Court for the amount of said invoice, lost revenue while the truck was out of service (if there were any snowfalls during that period).

Fighting with the Dealer and/or GM now will just result in your truck sitting there broken.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

CT-TILEMAN;1234111 said:


> The weight ratings are more for towing rather than plowing because of the stock braking system and not so much the ability of the truck to carry the weight.
> 
> Well that makes sense because the rear axle has a higher weight rating with smaller brakes


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## topdj

this year they improved the brakes, steering , suspension and the frame. this should have been done in 2007 why they waited is beyond me.


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## jomama45

CT-TILEMAN;1234111 said:


> I had a long post typed up but figured I would state the following, if GM builds a truck with a plow prep package you should be able to put a plow on it period.
> Maybe I'm just confused because this guy has posts complaining of his issues in many threads, but I've don't think he's ever said this truck has a plow prep package.
> The weight ratings are more for towing rather than plowing because of the stock braking system and not so much the ability of the truck to carry the weight.
> So the FAWR is merely a minor formality?????
> I think you are in here breaking his balls because you drive a Dodge and instead of offering some help your in here breaking his balls about a possible overloading of the front axle when in reality you don't know if it is overloaded.
> 
> :waving:


I disagree, I don't see where he ever made it a brand issue. If anything, it appears he's placing the blame on P&P where it belongs rather than on the manufacturer who has no control on how the owner uses the truck after it leaves the lot. Besides, for all we know, NBI could have a fleet of 10 Chevy's besides his Dodge.



PetalsandPines;1234270 said:


> .Why should I be afraid of GM ??? We bailed them out...everyone of us.....And what do we get in return?


The same argument could be made that I, Joe Q. Taxpayer, has no interest in paying to have a new frame put under your truck because of your own ignorance to the ratings of said truck. I asked earlier and you didn't answer, so I'll try again: Have you ever actually weighed the front axle independently and compared it to the manufacturer's max. rating? It is a commercial vehicle afterall, and it's part of being a legitimate, legally operating business owner.


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## NBI Lawn

jomama45;1234706 said:


> I disagree, I don't see where he ever made it a brand issue. If anything, it appears he's placing the blame on P&P where it belongs rather than on the manufacturer who has no control on how the owner uses the truck after it leaves the lot. Besides, for all we know,* NBI could have a fleet of 10 Chevy's besides his Dodge*.
> 
> The same argument could be made that I, Joe Q. Taxpayer, has no interest in paying to have a new frame put under your truck because of your own ignorance to the ratings of said truck. I asked earlier and you didn't answer, so I'll try again: Have you ever actually weighed the front axle independently and compared it to the manufacturer's max. rating? It is a commercial vehicle afterall, and it's part of being a legitimate, legally operating business owner.


This is true. I acutally don't plow with my Dodge. I plow with a 2007, 2006 and 1999 Chev.

*Tileman*, If FAWR are just a suggestion by the truck manufacturers I am going to go hang a 12' plow on my truck! I had no idea it didn't really mean anything.  . That was a really stupid comment and I will give you a chance to redeem yourself. FAWR, brakes, etc all have limitations whether it's towing related or plowing related. They are put forth to ensure trucks are not operated beyond their limitations, that includes frames (not just brakes). Would you hang a 9.5' V-plow on a new half ton? They come with a plow prep. Oh and the facts are there, this truck was overweight.

Also, if I were trying to turn this into a Chev VS Dodge thing I wouldn't be defending GM. I would have said "thats what you get for buying a Chev, should have bought a Dodge" or something along those lines.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

NBI Lawn;1235110 said:


> This is true. I acutally don't plow with my Dodge. I plow with a 2007, 2006 and 1999 Chev.
> 
> Tileman, If FAWR are just a suggestion by the truck manufacturers I am going to go hang a 12' plow on my truck! I had no idea it didn't really mean anything.  . That was a really stupid comment and I will give you a chance to redeem yourself. FAWR, brakes, etc all have limitations whether it's towing related or plowing related. They are put forth to ensure trucks are not operated beyond their limitations, that includes frames (not just brakes). Would you hang a 9.5' V-plow on a new half ton? They come with a plow prep. Oh and the facts are there, this truck was overweight.


Just put some Timbrens on it and your good to go


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## NBI Lawn

PetalsandPines;1234270 said:


> Thank you Tile Man...
> Listen people, the economy is killing alot of us who either own businesses or have been forced out of their job into doing this as an extra revenue source...one thing that we all can agree on is that we trust these auto companies, we trust these plow dealers to sell us the best possible piece of equipment. We are investing in our profitability...*you guys who want a pissing match over dodge, chevy, ford....GVW's...*I refuse to get involved. Simple fact is we trust them and invest our hard earned money to make money. People hire you to remove snow....Are you going to stop plowing because the snow is too heavy??? You are too tired that night?? You cant afford the gas anymore??? NO... your customers would crawl so far up your ass and you know it...you would honor your contractual agreement...I'm simply dissapointed that I cant get any help from those who sold me a bill of goods and in turn told me ....no you're wrong and you have no recourse. If you or I did this we would get hauled into court, the attorney general would be riding our asses. So why cant i be pissed over this...Why should I be afraid of GM ??? We bailed them out...everyone of us.....And what do we get in return? Every year the products are getting more and more inferior...I love the duramax/allison combo...its the best damn pushing machine i've ever owned....But what good is having all this power and torque on a weak frame?? A weak front end??? There are a lot of cases like mine out there as I am finding out more and more...we should not have to install gussets (although that was a brilliant idea by BB) Chevy should be doing it...Whats an extra $30 in materials. You buy a $40,000 truck and the seats are made of paper thin vinyl, the front end pieces just snap in with plastic pieces, the hinges are cheap, there is no power windows...cruise control...blah blah blah.... However, think of who buys a majority of these vehicles...Municipalities, Government, Utility Companies..etc...There is a built in market for them and chevy knows it...I bet you if i was a purchasing director of a NY municipal truck fleet and this problem came up....you better believe it GM would have bent over backwards for me...but who am I??? One guy, One small business?? That is the reason I brought this to the forum...not a pissing contest....i wanted to see strength in numbers for us snowplowers...we are not unionized....we cant just say Screw you to GM and have them buckle at their knees....they laugh at us..stupid Americans who wave our flag and buy Chevy or Ford for life. Come on guys, enough is enough! There is enough of us that got screwed on this problem to make our voices heard. Thats all im asking. Take Care


I never said anything about Dodge VS Chev if you are referring to me. Yes, other people have had this problem and GM is aware of it. The issue lies in that the ones that have had the problem have been over their FAWR, PERIOD! Whether GM sets it at 4800lbs to cover their ass or not, that is what they say the limit is and shouldn't be exceeded. You exceeded it and now you see why they set it there. I fail to see how/why you don't understand it.

Here is a horrible analogy for you: You are driving down the road with a posted 65mph speed limit (4800lb FAWR), you tell your buddy (Blizzard dealer) you want to do 85mph. He (the dealer) says F-YEAH go for it, he doesn't care what you do and gets a kick out of it (a sale). Out of nowhere a cop pulls you over and you get a ticket for speeding (frame breaking). Whos fault is it? The states for not raising the speed limit to something you feel is acceptable? Your buddies for not stopping you from speeding in the first place? Your defense is that the state has seen this issue before because they have handed out speeding tickets in the past. Limits are put in place for a reason whether it is speed, blood alcohol, tire presures, FAWR. If you exceed what is recommended it is your fault. Sorry dude, its kind of a closed case. I would save your time and energy and work on getting your truck fixed. GM isnt going to do anything.

Like I said it was horrible but the scenario is the same. Limits are broken and there are consequences when they are, speed limits or FAWR in your case.


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## lilweeds

I have weighed my front end. Same set up if yours is a classic. It comes in at about 5500 lbs loaded with salt and the 810 hanging off the front.

It's way over weight.

Now empty and an 800hd hanging off the front, or maybe an 860SW you'll get away with it.

I am prepared to take the chance that it could happen, but have taken the steps to prevent it. It's my choice.

Also 41 inches is not for truck pushing, it's for loaders. When your already over weight added a few hundred pounds of wet heavy snow doesn't help your case. Your dealer and GM is right, it's abuse and they SHOULDN'T pay for it.


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## PetalsandPines

*Well Boys.....*

Some agree some dont agree but the insurance company is very interested in this claim and all the documentation i have received from local plow dealers, local body shop owners, local chevy owners and im sure a whole heck of a lot of people on here...Yep they are using the documentation on plowsite and are reading the posts...Could this have big implications maybe. Those of you who have blasted me..im sure you'll want to see the outcome of this. and those who thought that their $40,000 truck wouldnt break before the plow would im sure are watching. I will find out tommorow the verdict and if it goes further than just an insurance claim.....And those who said just weld it...The truck is in my building and under close inspection the entire driver side rail is cracked straight through and the frame has shifted along with the cooler lines...and just found another crack in the middle of the A-Frame mount...I'll try to post a pic of it...its an interesting location for a crack


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## PetalsandPines

Sir...thanks for telling me how to plow...yep..just sat there with my cup of starbucks for 24 hours just waiting for the snow to stop... I was running 36 hours straight every 3-5" because it was snowing at the rate of 1-2" an hour...i wasnt born yesterday. I dealt with a 7 foot storm in 2001 with an 8 foot meyer and a 97F350....Guess which truck and plow has outlasted 2 , yes 2 3500 Chevys??? a 2004 4x4 dually dump and this piece of crap.

Can we split any more hairs in this utterly useless pissing match?

Oh the 97 Ford was built in Canada...just saying tymusic



lilweeds;1235164 said:


> I have weighed my front end. Same set up if yours is a classic. It comes in at about 5500 lbs loaded with salt and the 810 hanging off the front.
> 
> It's way over weight.
> 
> Now empty and an 800hd hanging off the front, or maybe an 860SW you'll get away with it.
> 
> I am prepared to take the chance that it could happen, but have taken the steps to prevent it. It's my choice.
> 
> Also 41 inches is not for truck pushing, it's for loaders. When your already over weight added a few hundred pounds of wet heavy snow doesn't help your case. Your dealer and GM is right, it's abuse and they SHOULDN'T pay for it.


----------



## RichG53

I think it has become a personal thing now...

I don't blame him for being upset..It should not happen..

Most things made are under rated (for protection) but can endure more

For example look at floor jacks they (some)are rated at1 tons..But in reality will lift 1-1/2 maybe 2 ..
I have talked to hyd. engineers about this.

So good luck with your fight...


----------



## LHK2

Wow, what a piss fest. I have a 2007 1 ton dump with a 9'2 boss and salt with. When it is loaded, it weighs in at 18,000. A little over ok. 50,000 miles, never had a problem. Whatever. I have seen friends, ford dodge and chevy frames crack. Get a welder out and fix it.


----------



## PetalsandPines

*my point is....*



LHK2;1235468 said:


> Wow, what a piss fest. I have a 2007 1 ton dump with a 9'2 boss and salt with. When it is loaded, it weighs in at 18,000. A little over ok. 50,000 miles, never had a problem. Whatever. I have seen friends, ford dodge and chevy frames crack. Get a welder out and fix it.


Guys my only point in this whole argument is i still owe $19,000 on this truck...I am concerned about the resale situation....if someone sees a scabbed in frame...its gonna send up a huge red flag....I trusted that my blizzard dealer put the right plow on this truck...i didnt want to overload it, i didnt ask for this abuse.....I am not a mechanic, welder, techie....I own a greenhouse / garden center and grows plants. period....benn plowing for twenty years....every year i reduce the amount of contracts because i am not interested in being married to lake erie, its punishing surprise storms and whiny customers who expect you out on one inch of snow! My plow route takes me a whopping 2.5 hours to do, mostly residential and a lot of sidewalks and shoveling.....This is not my main source of income.....Can you at least agree with this?


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

Well I'm sure your insurance company will love the fact you are driving your truck illegally. Being over gvw will get you a ticket here, could front, rear, or both. They won't let you leave until you are legal that would mean leaving your plow. Not sure why your INS co would pay for it, will they pay for a broken tranny?


----------



## NBI Lawn

PetalsandPines;1235421 said:


> Sir...thanks for telling me how to plow...yep..just sat there with my cup of starbucks for 24 hours just waiting for the snow to stop... I was running 36 hours straight every 3-5" because it was snowing at the rate of 1-2" an hour...i wasnt born yesterday. I dealt with a 7 foot storm in 2001 with an 8 foot meyer and a 97F350....Guess which truck and plow has outlasted 2 , yes 2 3500 Chevys??? a 2004 4x4 dually dump and this piece of crap.
> 
> Can we split any more hairs in this utterly useless pissing match?
> 
> Oh the 97 Ford was built in Canada...just saying tymusic


It doesn't really matter what you have seen and what other trucks have done your current 07 Chev was not rated to handle the plow you were using which resulted in a failure of the frame. Why can you not accept blame for that. If the DOT would have checked you, you would have recieved a ticket.

I agree that you are not a mechanic and I too would be mad as hell but again it is all about the facts. The facts are the truck was not rated for the weight of the plow you ran. _Technically _you have been illegally operating the truck with the plow on there. I would also venture to say you have had the plow on there with an overloaded box full of salt as well . I understand you didn't ask for this situation but agian look at the facts. It is only a 1ton, you can't expect a that much out of it regardless of how much you currently owe or what you paid for it. Paying $40,000 for it doesnt mean it can handle more weight. You say you didnt do it on purpose and you didnt know...that doesnt change anything.

I do feel for your situation and its a tough pill to swallow but at this point you should just bring it in and have it welded up and gusseted. In all reality it wont affect the resale since it is technically stronger than it was before.

I would also be careful about the whole insurance deal. You have now outright told them that you have been overloading your commercial vehicle... I doubt they like that.

This is not a pissing match at all. If you were to go to court what would they look at??? The Facts. Regardless of what other information you find about the frames yours broke from what would be considered "abuse" by overloading it.

Also, any frame will break. So this isnt a Ford vs GM vs Dodge thing.

Sorry for the situation and I hope some miracle happens for you but don't hold your breath.


----------



## tuney443

NBI Lawn;1235527 said:


> It doesn't really matter what you have seen and what other trucks have done your current 07 Chev was not rated to handle the plow you were using which resulted in a failure of the frame. Why can you not accept blame for that. If the DOT would have checked you, you would have recieved a ticket.
> 
> I agree that you are not a mechanic and I too would be mad as hell but again it is all about the facts. The facts are the truck was not rated for the weight of the plow you ran. _Technically _you have been illegally operating the truck with the plow on there. I would also venture to say you have had the plow on there with an overloaded box full of salt as well . I understand you didn't ask for this situation but agian look at the facts. It is only a 1ton, you can't expect a that much out of it regardless of how much you currently owe or what you paid for it. Paying $40,000 for it doesnt mean it can handle more weight. You say you didnt do it on purpose and you didnt know...that doesnt change anything.
> 
> I do feel for your situation and its a tough pill to swallow but at this point you should just bring it in and have it welded up and gusseted. In all reality it wont affect the resale since it is technically stronger than it was before.
> 
> I would also be careful about the whole insurance deal. You have now outright told them that you have been overloading your commercial vehicle... I doubt they like that.
> 
> This is not a pissing match at all. If you were to go to court what would they look at??? The Facts. Regardless of what other information you find about the frames yours broke from what would be considered "abuse" by overloading it.
> 
> Also, any frame will break. So this isnt a Ford vs GM vs Dodge thing.
> 
> Sorry for the situation and I hope some miracle happens for you but don't hold your breath.


Very well said and the bitter truth.


----------



## MarkEagleUSA

PetalsandPines;1235509 said:


> I trusted that my blizzard dealer put the right plow on this truck...


Maybe your beef should be with the Blizzard dealer if they sold you a plow that was too big for your truck?


----------



## lilweeds

NBI Lawn;1235527 said:


> It doesn't really matter what you have seen and what other trucks have done your current 07 Chev was not rated to handle the plow you were using which resulted in a failure of the frame. Why can you not accept blame for that. If the DOT would have checked you, you would have recieved a ticket.
> 
> I agree that you are not a mechanic and I too would be mad as hell but again it is all about the facts. The facts are the truck was not rated for the weight of the plow you ran. _Technically _you have been illegally operating the truck with the plow on there. I would also venture to say you have had the plow on there with an overloaded box full of salt as well . I understand you didn't ask for this situation but agian look at the facts. It is only a 1ton, you can't expect a that much out of it regardless of how much you currently owe or what you paid for it. Paying $40,000 for it doesnt mean it can handle more weight. You say you didnt do it on purpose and you didnt know...that doesnt change anything.
> 
> I do feel for your situation and its a tough pill to swallow but at this point you should just bring it in and have it welded up and gusseted. In all reality it wont affect the resale since it is technically stronger than it was before.
> 
> I would also be careful about the whole insurance deal. You have now outright told them that you have been overloading your commercial vehicle... I doubt they like that.
> 
> This is not a pissing match at all. If you were to go to court what would they look at??? The Facts. Regardless of what other information you find about the frames yours broke from what would be considered "abuse" by overloading it.
> 
> Also, any frame will break. So this isnt a Ford vs GM vs Dodge thing.
> 
> Sorry for the situation and I hope some miracle happens for you but don't hold your breath.


X2 on the well said. He'll be lucky if the insurance company doesn't drop him.

Sorry man this isn't personal, just think your blaming the wrong person.


----------



## KingDuramax

I see no reason why GM shouldnt stand behind this problem. Heck Toyota is putting frames under 1995-2003 Tacomas due to rust. This is clearly a design flaw and should be taken care of. They need to take care of the customers they have or they will be back begging for the government to bail them out again. I have had Chevies for 20 years and am seriously looking at Fords due to the fact that Gm doesnt seem to care anymore.


----------



## cwby_ram

I'm not sure I even want to get involved here, but here's my 2 cents...

I think NBI said it best earlier. The facts are what will be used in a lawsuit, insurance claim, warranty claim, or anything else where someone wants someone else to pay for something. 
Because the facts can be checked and proven. FAWRs are stamped in the door, owners manual, etc. And the front end can be weighed. It's gonna be hard to argue for someone else to cover the repairs. And ignorance of the numbers on your equipment isn't gonna get to pay for it either. (Not trying to be offensive, I'm guilty too, I don't know what the front end of my truck weighs, and I know that I overload the back with salt from time to time).

I think what some of the guys here were suggesting was just to get it fixed so you don't have the down time waiting on GM. I know it's not ideal, but I know personally I can't afford the downtime while fighting a fight that I may or may not win. Best to get it operational again, and then fight your fight to minimize profit loss. 

So, I hope you win your fight. I personally don't like the odds. And I do for the record, think it's a shame that a work truck has an issue like this. I hear ya man, it sucks. But in the end facts are facts, emotions don't really count for much, and it is what it is.
Good luck to you, sincerely!

By the way, I'll be putting gussets on my '95 before it receives a plow!


----------



## bow2no1

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1233363 said:


> You won't win the fight with GM. Did the frame break, yes were you over fawr yes. You loose


if he stays quiet nothing will happen.

he's making bad public relations with GM....
i'm looking at getting a new /new truck truck this spring. but after reading this, might cost GM a sale. yeah i'm thinking twice about buying a newer 3/4 or 1 ton.

look at toyota. if people didn't complain about the frames they wouldn't of had the recall.
toyota could have said...if the owners took better care of the frames they wouldn't have rusted out. but they went good on them!

i say go after 'em! at this point you have nothing to lose.
if you abused your truck plow parts would be bent and busted and also suspicion parts would be busted. i have a 2500HD and the frame on my truck for a 3/4 ton is one of the biggest i have ever seen! if my frame cracked i would start to question why. seems like it should take ALOT of abuse!


----------



## vinnys

Hey PetalsandPines, Have you tried the Chevy or GM forums?? Look around and see if any body else has had these problems without being "overloaded" or swinging a plow. Seems like anybody that take a truck like that off road should have the same problem. Due to the fact that the front is just about at the limit, now add in all that flexing and you might have some cracked frames. Did the plow dealer sell and INSTALL that unit on your truck? If so, I think you got a pretty good case against THEM. Dealers by me will not install certain plows on certain trucks. Its professional liability! Just a suggestion. Good Luck!


----------



## plowking35

I have 4 chevies that I plow with. 97 Blazer 99 K 2500 new style body. 06 K 2500 and 07 X cab and chassis with d max and an 810.
None of the frames are cracked. i check mine after every storm.
Had a glow plug changed today and my mechanic works for a local municipality as a wrench and they own 50 + chevys and have exclusivley since the 80's. Has never seen a frame crack, some rust but not crack.
they have bent quite a few frames and switched to western ultras over the MM cause they have a tendancy to bend easier with the MM.
Anyway the reason I post is that I know full and well my 07 is exceeding the limits of the tag on the door. I watch and keep an eye on it. If there ever is an issue it will be fixed and GM will not be liable for my overworking it.
I am more at issue with the metal oil, tranny, brake and fuel lines rotting out after 4 years and after 5 years on the 06.
So let me ask, if you are consistantly running with 4-5 ton loads in the dump, and at some point you bend or crack a rear frame member, will you file the same claim with GM.
What you really need is a 15000 lb or higher rated truck. We all know that.
If DOT pulled you or I over, we would both be red tagged and plows dropped where we sat and spreaders emptied. Its the facts.
I just read that another member I know has a cracked frame on an 05 Ford with blizzards mount. Seems the coil spring tower and blizzard mount put allot of stress in that area.
Also I remember 73-87 chevy and dodges cracking behind the steering box. Guess we all forgot about that one.
had an 88 F 150 that rotted and cracked behind the cab after 10 years. Oh that truck was also made in canada.
Allot of Mazdas and Izuzus rotted frames.
the list goes and on
It happens.
Monitor and repair if need be.
I know of plenty of excavators and loaders that get welded every day. Part of being in business and operating equipment. 
Dino


----------



## PetalsandPines

*Just got the truck weighed*

OK....here goes...
The front weight with the plow frame on is 3980 pounds
Add The Plow weight according to specs is 950 lbs
= 4,930 lbs

the Front GAWR "?" on the door says 4800 lbs.
The scale recorded my fat 275 pound ass in the front seat

Rear weight was 4360 lbs.

Entire truck rated for 12,000 lbs

So If my fat ass is in the truck. My front axle is over weight by 130 lbs.
If my wife is plowing, alone I'm within the 4800 lb limit by 18 pounds
The rear was weighed with no ballast at all.

This was a certified scale weight that i just got...

We want to split hairs now?
Maybe I should take my Strobes off and my nerf bars off the front...
and my wife can plow for now on and she can even put a six pack of beer in the front seat and bring home a pizza??

Seriously?


----------



## jklawn&Plow

I just pushed some snow up in a pile and my whole front end collapsed down. Realistically if I jump my 180lbs on the front it hardly budges. The force has to be closer to 500-700lbs of snow/icepack


----------



## PetalsandPines

*Hey Neighbor*

Its nice to see someone from western ny on here....

I dont know what area you plow...but i'm in west seneca and i say this has been the most brutal winter in many many years.


----------



## jklawn&Plow

I'm up north. A lot of 2" stuff. Last two 4-5" sleet frozen ice over snow was a real pain, but not like what you guys had down south early in the season.

Either way your situation turns out, use it as leverage to get better deal next time from dealership.


----------



## PetalsandPines

Hey...question for you experts....since there is no ballast...would adding ballast to the back of the truck create a teeter totter effect and lighten the weight on the front? Im just curious.


----------



## PetalsandPines

*jk*

Are you from Russels?


----------



## Mxrider069

I'm in the Rochester area...I have a 9' pro plus on the front on my 05 ecsb 2500HD..I get out of my truck just about every hour with a flash light to check behind the upper c arm mounts. I shouldn't have to be worried about my truck like that. I will be having my gussets installed ASAP. My father is lead tech at one of the Chevy stealer-ships round here and he just laughs at me for being so concerned. I feel like GM trains them to say F-you.


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

PetalsandPines;1235832 said:


> OK....here goes...
> The front weight with the plow frame on is 3980 pounds
> Add The Plow weight according to specs is 950 lbs
> = 4,930 lbs
> 
> the Front GAWR "?" on the door says 4800 lbs.
> The scale recorded my fat 275 pound ass in the front seat
> 
> Rear weight was 4360 lbs.
> 
> Entire truck rated for 12,000 lbs
> 
> So If my fat ass is in the truck. My front axle is over weight by 130 lbs.
> If my wife is plowing, alone I'm within the 4800 lb limit by 18 pounds
> The rear was weighed with no ballast at all.
> 
> This was a certified scale weight that i just got...
> 
> We want to split hairs now?
> Maybe I should take my Strobes off and my nerf bars off the front...
> and my wife can plow for now on and she can even put a six pack of beer in the front seat and bring home a pizza??
> 
> Seriously?


You brought in portable scales? Or you drove it somewhere? The problem is that you didn't get an accurate weight, you can't just add 950lbs. You forgot about the teeter totter effect. When the plow is on and UP the front end squats, right? If you would weigh the rear with the plow down, then up I guarantee the rear will get lighter. Where do you think the weight went. The front axle acts as a pivot point and transfers weight to the front. Just saying. I guess I was pretty close the other day when I said the truck weighed 8000lbs empty. Huh I was within 65lbs


----------



## jklawn&Plow

Just on my own-driveways


----------



## cwby_ram

PetalsandPines;1235918 said:


> Hey...question for you experts....since there is no ballast...would adding ballast to the back of the truck create a teeter totter effect and lighten the weight on the front? Im just curious.


From a physics standpoint, the short answer would be no. If it was behind the rear wheels it might help a little, but with the plow on the front, the tendency would be to try to bend the frame up in the middle. If it were over the rear wheels they would carry most of that weight. It seems to me the only thing ballast does to help is to provide you traction for the rear wheels. I'm sure it helps a little to counteract the weight on the front, but to actually take weight off the front, it would have to be a heck of a lot of ballast.
I'm no expert, but that's the way I figure it.

*Edit*
That wasn't as clear as I wanted. There will be some "teeter totter" affect, but you'd have to hang a lot of weight beyond the back wheels to get it, so that the rear axle acted like a fulcrum. NICHOLS post made me rethink how I worded mine.

Am I off on my thinking? Anyone else know any better?


----------



## NBI Lawn

PetalsandPines;1235832 said:


> OK....here goes...
> *The front weight with the plow frame on is 3980 pounds
> Add The Plow weight according to specs is 950 lbs
> = 4,930 lbs*
> 
> the Front GAWR "?" on the door says 4800 lbs.
> The scale recorded my fat 275 pound ass in the front seat
> 
> Rear weight was 4360 lbs.
> 
> Entire truck rated for 12,000 lbs
> 
> So If my fat ass is in the truck. My front axle is over weight by 130 lbs.
> If my wife is plowing, alone I'm within the 4800 lb limit by 18 pounds
> The rear was weighed with no ballast at all.
> 
> This was a certified scale weight that i just got...
> 
> We want to split hairs now?
> Maybe I should take my Strobes off and my nerf bars off the front...
> and my wife can plow for now on and she can even put a six pack of beer in the front seat and bring home a pizza??
> 
> Seriously?


Everything adds to the FAWR so it is what it is. You have now admitted that it is overweight...whats the issue? It is also funny that your truck though equipped just like others is ~200lbs lighter


----------



## vinnys

Fulcrums. isn't that what you get when you eat a coffee cake in the front seat of your truck???  Sorry, couldn't pass it up.


----------



## PetalsandPines

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1235924 said:


> You brought in portable scales? Or you drove it somewhere? The problem is that you didn't get an accurate weight, you can't just add 950lbs. You forgot about the teeter totter effect. When the plow is on and UP the front end squats, right? If you would weigh the rear with the plow down, then up I guarantee the rear will get lighter. Where do you think the weight went. The front axle acts as a pivot point and transfers weight to the front. Just saying. I guess I was pretty close the other day when I said the truck weighed 8000lbs empty. Huh I was within 65lbs


Ive got a truck plaza near by and had them weigh it... the scale calculated independently the front and rear and they gave me a certified weight ticket. 8,340 exactly (minus my 275 lbs)


----------



## PetalsandPines

so you're essentially saying if i put 950 lbs of ballast in the back...the front end would lift up and be lighter?


----------



## NBI Lawn

PetalsandPines;1235961 said:


> Ive got a truck plaza near by and had them weigh it... the scale calculated independently the front and rear and they gave me a certified weight ticket. 8,340 exactly (*minus my 275 lbs*)


You dont subtract your weight.


----------



## PetalsandPines

NBI Lawn;1235953 said:


> Everything adds to the FAWR so it is what it is. You have now admitted that it is overweight...whats the issue? It is also funny that your truck though equipped just like others is ~200lbs lighter


maybe all the undercoating flaked off while i was driving.....certified scales dont lie right?


----------



## PetalsandPines

NBI Lawn;1235967 said:


> You dont subtract your weight.


So when DOT pulls me over...am i in or out of the truck? I would guess im out of the truck....or is the barackobamics youre reffering to? Hey the guys over weight...throw him in there so we can nail him for being 100 lbs over....
Gee...when my wife plows for me now...better tell her to clear the snow off the hood...she might be overweighted.

splitting hairs guys.....just trying to bring attention to a serious matter with humor....but apparently your not seeing how this is riding a very fine line.

So those with a straight blade 8 footer make sure DOT doesnt see you stack that snow.....it might overload your vehicle....


----------



## cwby_ram

vinnys;1235956 said:


> Fulcrums. isn't that what you get when you eat a coffee cake in the front seat of your truck???  Sorry, couldn't pass it up.


That's the alternate definition! :laughing:



PetalsandPines;1235956 said:


> so you're essentially saying if i put 950 lbs of ballast in the back...the front end would lift up and be lighter?


No, quite the opposite. You'd have to have that 950 lbs hanging off the back like a plow hangs off the front. The leverage would multiply it to take weight off the front. If it's just 950 lbs over the axle (or just behind it) most of the weight will be taken by the rear axle. Look up fulcrum and levers on google.
Even if it were hanging off the back like a plow, how much weight does your plow hanging off the front really take off the rear?


----------



## PowersTree

I have a friend who GM just paid for a new frame and instal under his 07 Classic. 

Get pissy enough, and they will fix it. They know there is a problem, and with enough pressure they will fold. His truck was 8 months out of warranty.


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

PetalsandPines;1235964 said:


> so you're essentially saying if i put 950 lbs of ballast in the back...the front end would lift up and be lighter?





PetalsandPines;1235973 said:


> So when DOT pulls me over...am i in or out of the truck? I would guess im out of the truck
> 
> NO if you hung 950lbs 5 FEET off the back of the truck it EQUALIZE the teeter totter effect.
> 
> Obviously you have been fortunate enough that you haven't had to deal with DOT but YES you WILL be in the truck when they weigh you.


----------



## cwby_ram

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1235985 said:


> NO if you hung 950lbs 5 FEET off the back of the truck it EQUALIZE the teeter totter effect.


Thumbs UpThumbs Up


----------



## jklawn&Plow

How may cuyds of rock salt do you load at max?


----------



## PetalsandPines

i dont carry rock salt...dont have a salter....only a toro snowblower


----------



## PetalsandPines

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1235985 said:


> PetalsandPines;1235973 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when DOT pulls me over...am i in or out of the truck? I would guess im out of the truck
> 
> NO if you hung 950lbs 5 FEET off the back of the truck it EQUALIZE the teeter totter effect.
> 
> Obviously you have been fortunate enough that you haven't had to deal with DOT but YES you WILL be in the truck when they weigh you.
> 
> 
> 
> But isnt the crucial crack spot we are talking about not dead center of the truck??? Rather its only 2 Ft. behind bumper?? So add 4 feet of plow 2 feet to the pivot point....go back on the truck 6FT from the pivot point and where are??? Dead center over the back axle where one would ballast the truck?
Click to expand...


----------



## cwby_ram

PetalsandPines;1236004 said:


> But isnt the crucial crack spot we are talking about not dead center of the truck??? Rather its only 2 Ft. behind bumper?? So add 4 feet of plow 2 feet to the pivot point....go back on the truck 6FT from the pivot point and where are??? Dead center over the back axle where one would ballast the truck?


Are you thinking you can counteract the action of the weight of the plow on the stress point? In a simplified form, 950 lbs in the dead center of the truck would be equally distributed to the front and rear axle. And I don't think that simply trying to equalize the weight would take any stress off the weak point. Much easier to just weld those gusset plates in.


----------



## PetalsandPines

cwby_ram;1236015 said:


> Are you thinking you can counteract the action of the weight of the plow on the stress point? In a simplified form, 950 lbs in the dead center of the truck would be equally distributed to the front and rear axle. And I don't think that simply trying to equalize the weight would take any stress off the weak point. Much easier to just weld those gusset plates in.


Gussets are a proactive solution here to those that are concerned.....my frame is cracked straight through on both sides of the truck...the frame has now shifted and split open...Sure...just weld it back together right??? Wrong....ever see how many lines are running along that rail??? Not sure if they are brake lines or tranny lines....dont feel like crawling under right now...but the frame is going to have to be re aligned the lines are going to have to be removed the crack is going to have to be "smushed" back together, boxed in and then gusseted......This is not an "easy" fix as all are saying.

And by the way....the annual auto show is in Buffalo this week at the convention center.....I can put the wood sides back on the truck and get a pretty large sign on both sides with a bright yellow lemon...and maybe a cute little caption and park it right in front of the auto show......they can call me for details if they want.


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

GENERAL MOTORS
GM recommends that when a snowplow is mounted on a vehicle, only one passenger should accompany the driver. More than one passenger may exceed front Gross Axle Weight Ratings.

Prior to installing a front-mounted snowplow, the following process should be followed and necessary information obtained:

Establish vehicle curb weight.

Establish chassis manufacturer's front and rear axle weight ratings.

Chevrolet and GMC truck dealers can provide availability, specifications, GVWR, and Front and Rear GAWR. For vehicles already built, this information can be found on the certification label installed on the driver's door/frame or provided on the cover of the incomplete vehicle document.

The following information should be obtained and provided by the manufacturers of snowplows and salt spreaders:

Specifications, weights, and center of gravity data.

Vehicle installation guidelines and instructions.

Calculation of weight distribution for the front and rear axles.

The loaded vehicle with driver, passenger, aftermarket accessories, snowplows, spreader, and cargo must not exceed the GVWR, and Front and Rear GAWR.

In addition, the completed curb weight vehicle, with all installed aftermarket accessories, snowplow, and spreader, and with 400 lb distributed in the driver-passenger area of the vehicle, must have a center of gravity that is located within the trapezoid formed by the coordinates A, B, C, D, H1 and H2, plus it must be to the rear of vertical line E and forward of vertical line F as defined in the Allowable Center of Gravity charts. If the center of gravity does not fall within the specified trapezoid, ballast weight may be required to shift the center of gravity until it falls within the specified trapezoid.

The snowplow manufacturer and the installer of the aftermarket equipment should determine the amount of rear ballast required to ensure that the vehicle, with the attached snowplow and aftermarket equipment, complies with the Allowable Center of Gravity Trapezoid and the resulting front and rear weight distribution ratio as defined in the Allowable Center of Gravity Charts published in the GM manual.

The use of rear ballast weight may be required to prevent exceeding the GAWR of the front axle. The use of rear ballast weight may be required to ensure that the center of gravity location of the completed vehicle, with the attached snowplow and other installed equipment, complies with the Allowable Center of Gravity Trapezoid and the resulting front and rear weight distribution ratio, even though the actual front weight may be less than the GAWR of the front axle. In either case, the rear ballast weight should be securely attached in the cargo box or behind the rear axle of the vehicle in a manner that prevents it from moving during driving and stopping.

To help avoid personal injury, refer to Z-height setting procedure before adjusting torsion bars. If torsion bars are adjusted for aftermarket equipment, be sure to return them to specification when the equipment is removed. Otherwise, a front shock absorber may dislodge and damage a front brake line. This could result in an accident when minimum stopping distances are required.


There you goThumbs Up Read it all especially the second to last paragraph.


----------



## PetalsandPines

All this tells me is some suit at GM figured out how to save money...Confuse the hell out of someone who doesn't have a masters degree in engineering and provided a nice cushy protection for them from lawsuits.....Wouldn't just be easier to PUT THE RIGHT F'IN FRAME ON A 3500?????????????????


----------



## PetalsandPines

oh how pretty its snowing again...better get that 97 F350 with the meyer ready


----------



## jklawn&Plow

Realistically if GM wants to make you think you need to worry about the weight of a few passengers then these trucks are not meant to stack and lift snow , only push it.


----------



## PetalsandPines

jklawn&Plow;1236084 said:


> Realistically if GM wants to make you think you need to worry about the weight of a few passengers then these trucks are not meant to stack and lift snow , only push it.


You know as well as I do....that would only be feasible for the 1st 3 snowfalls around here......then your up the creek......cuz if i couldnt stack snow this year.....my driveways would be socked in all the way through!!


----------



## dlcs

Something I was kicking around last night. Look at the way the western ultramount bolts to the new chevys. Not really much there, nothing goes between the two frame rails. Nothing runs back to the crossmembers. Now look at the way the Meyer classic mounts used to bolts to the chevys, much more support with the bolting back to the cross member. i was just using the old meyer mounts as an example, all the old mounts were beefier. 

Another thing is tyhe blizzard 810 that much heavier than say a 8' meyer poly plow or a vee plow? i don't think so. I think alot of it has to do with the way theymount plows nowadays.


----------



## BigLou80

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1236056 said:


> GENERAL MOTORS
> GM recommends that when a snowplow is mounted on a vehicle, only one passenger should accompany the driver. More than one passenger may exceed front Gross Axle Weight Ratings.
> 
> Prior to installing a front-mounted snowplow, the following process should be followed and necessary information obtained:
> 
> Establish vehicle curb weight.
> 
> Establish chassis manufacturer's front and rear axle weight ratings.
> 
> Chevrolet and GMC truck dealers can provide availability, specifications, GVWR, and Front and Rear GAWR. For vehicles already built, this information can be found on the certification label installed on the driver's door/frame or provided on the cover of the incomplete vehicle document.
> 
> The following information should be obtained and provided by the manufacturers of snowplows and salt spreaders:
> 
> Specifications, weights, and center of gravity data.
> 
> Vehicle installation guidelines and instructions.
> 
> Calculation of weight distribution for the front and rear axles.
> 
> The loaded vehicle with driver, passenger, aftermarket accessories, snowplows, spreader, and cargo must not exceed the GVWR, and Front and Rear GAWR.
> 
> In addition, the completed curb weight vehicle, with all installed aftermarket accessories, snowplow, and spreader, and with 400 lb distributed in the driver-passenger area of the vehicle, must have a center of gravity that is located within the trapezoid formed by the coordinates A, B, C, D, H1 and H2, plus it must be to the rear of vertical line E and forward of vertical line F as defined in the Allowable Center of Gravity charts. If the center of gravity does not fall within the specified trapezoid, ballast weight may be required to shift the center of gravity until it falls within the specified trapezoid.
> 
> The snowplow manufacturer and the installer of the aftermarket equipment should determine the amount of rear ballast required to ensure that the vehicle, with the attached snowplow and aftermarket equipment, complies with the Allowable Center of Gravity Trapezoid and the resulting front and rear weight distribution ratio as defined in the Allowable Center of Gravity Charts published in the GM manual.
> 
> The use of rear ballast weight may be required to prevent exceeding the GAWR of the front axle. The use of rear ballast weight may be required to ensure that the center of gravity location of the completed vehicle, with the attached snowplow and other installed equipment, complies with the Allowable Center of Gravity Trapezoid and the resulting front and rear weight distribution ratio, even though the actual front weight may be less than the GAWR of the front axle. In either case, the rear ballast weight should be securely attached in the cargo box or behind the rear axle of the vehicle in a manner that prevents it from moving during driving and stopping.
> 
> To help avoid personal injury, refer to Z-height setting procedure before adjusting torsion bars. If torsion bars are adjusted for aftermarket equipment, be sure to return them to specification when the equipment is removed. Otherwise, a front shock absorber may dislodge and damage a front brake line. This could result in an accident when minimum stopping distances are required.
> 
> There you goThumbs Up Read it all especially the second to last paragraph.


Blah Blah. I didn't bother looking to see where any of the above trapazoid points are but I can tell you adding more weight behind the rear axle will reduce the load on the front axle as well as increase the arching effect that many think are to blame for this


----------



## CT-TILEMAN

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1234694 said:


> CT-TILEMAN;1234111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The weight ratings are more for towing rather than plowing because of the stock braking system and not so much the ability of the truck to carry the weight.
> 
> Well that makes sense because the rear axle has a higher weight rating with smaller brakes
> 
> Actually it makes a lot of sense, when you hit the brakes does the front end drop or raise, mine drops, maybe your is special and doesn't, but it's called weight transfer, simple physics, you know how an object in motion stays in motion, 1st grade stuff, that is why the front brakes are always larger, they do more work stopping the vehicle then the rear brakes.........:waving:.........unless you drive in reverse all the time the front brakes are always larger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jomama45;1234706 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, I don't see where he ever made it a brand issue. If anything, it appears he's placing the blame on P&P where it belongs rather than on the manufacturer who has no control on how the owner uses the truck after it leaves the lot. Besides, for all we know, NBI could have a fleet of 10 Chevy's besides his Dodge.
> 
> The same argument could be made that I, Joe Q. Taxpayer, has no interest in paying to have a new frame put under your truck because of your own ignorance to the ratings of said truck. I asked earlier and you didn't answer, so I'll try again: Have you ever actually weighed the front axle independently and compared it to the manufacturer's max. rating? It is a commercial vehicle afterall, and it's part of being a legitimate, legally operating business owner.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NBI Lawn;1235110 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is true. I acutally don't plow with my Dodge. I plow with a 2007, 2006 and 1999 Chev.
> 
> *Tileman*, If FAWR are just a suggestion by the truck manufacturers I am going to go hang a 12' plow on my truck! I had no idea it didn't really mean anything.  . That was a really stupid comment and I will give you a chance to redeem yourself.
> 
> You could hang a plastic plow on the front, it would weigh less and could be the same size as a steel plow, the actual size of the plow means nothing, it is the weight. Your sure the truck is overweight, you have a weight ticket or are you just guessing ??
> 
> FAWR, brakes, etc all have limitations whether it's towing related or plowing related. They are put forth to ensure trucks are not operated beyond their limitations, that includes frames (not just brakes). Would you hang a 9.5' V-plow on a new half ton? They come with a plow prep. Oh and the facts are there, this truck was overweight.
> 
> They all come available with tow packages too, you can tow a perfectly weighted trailer and load it incorrectly putting too much tongue weight as well or load the back end and cause yourself problems.
> 
> Also, if I were trying to turn this into a Chev VS Dodge thing I wouldn't be defending GM. I would have said "thats what you get for buying a Chev, should have bought a Dodge" or something along those lines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yes my truck has a plow prep package on it, I would take a picture of the push button for the roof mounted light to right of the heater and the window sticker but you naysayers would claim a photoshopped job.
> 
> It is a REGULAR CAB, not a Crew cab, it does just fine with a 835 lb plow on it with proper rear ballast since the curb weight empty is only 6040 lbs !!
> 
> I guess when you trade up from a 1500 to a 2500 they should all run the same size brakes because we all know that the brakes have actually nothing to do with the ability to carry weight, only stopping with the extra weight.
Click to expand...


----------



## tuney443

dlcs;1236146 said:


> Something I was kicking around last night. Look at the way the western ultramount bolts to the new chevys. Not really much there, nothing goes between the two frame rails. Nothing runs back to the crossmembers. Now look at the way the Meyer classic mounts used to bolts to the chevys, much more support with the bolting back to the cross member. i was just using the old meyer mounts as an example, all the old mounts were beefier.
> 
> Another thing is tyhe blizzard 810 that much heavier than say a 8' meyer poly plow or a vee plow? i don't think so. I think alot of it has to do with the way theymount plows nowadays.


You reminded me of an old farmer friend who had a beefy mid 60's Ford 350 I believe with an all hydraulic Fisher plow that had braces going all the way back around his rear axle.Quite sure it was all factory parts from Fisher.


----------



## Mr. Jon

I've had my truck on a certified scale.
Truck empty: Front axle 4,560 / Rear axle 3,400
Truck pulling trailer (pintle hook) with mini excavator on it: Front axle 3,940 / Rear axle 5,500.
So with the added 2,100 lbs. of tongue weight behind the rear axle, 620 lbs. is removed from the front axle.


----------



## simoncx

Some of you guys sound like your getting a cut for gm, in all honesty a 1 ton truck should handle that plow without a problem thats why we buy them. Everyone knows there is a problem with gm frames breaking but no one wants to admit it and making excuses that he's 200 pounds over, bs. I'm not saying put a 12' plow on but if it has a plow package from the factory you should be able to put a decent plow on, what do they think your going to put on a 1 ton dually, a 6' plow off a jeep? This is just becoming a pissing match with bs excuses and straying further from the point that a 1 ton shouldn't be breaking like this.


----------



## dlcs

tuney443;1236368 said:


> You reminded me of an old farmer friend who had a beefy mid 60's Ford 350 I believe with an all hydraulic Fisher plow that had braces going all the way back around his rear axle.Quite sure it was all factory parts from Fisher.


My old 89 f-250 had a 7.5' Meyer st plow on it. Truck was a diesel. But the mount ran all the way back under the cab, looked really ******* and I alwasy thought it was homemade. I later found out that it was a meyer original. Seems to me that frames were stronger back then so why do they not build the mounts as heavy duty today? here is a pic of the truck.


----------



## dlcs

simoncx;1236410 said:


> Some of you guys sound like your getting a cut for gm, in all honesty a 1 ton truck should handle that plow without a problem thats why we buy them. Everyone knows there is a problem with gm frames breaking but no one wants to admit it and making excuses that he's 200 pounds over, bs. I'm not saying put a 12' plow on but if it has a plow package from the factory you should be able to put a decent plow on, what do they think your going to put on a 1 ton dually, a 6' plow off a jeep? This is just becoming a pissing match with bs excuses and straying further from the point that a 1 ton shouldn't be breaking like this.


A 3/4 ton shouldn't break either. The new 2500hd is essentially the old 1 ton, not much difference. When manufactuurers design trucks to plow with, they have to include the weight of the snow you will be pushing too, its more than just the factor of plow weight. I'm up for a new truck this spring and let me tell you, if GM doesn't step up to the plate, I will not be buying another GM truck. GM new of this problem before thats why the gussets were installed on earlier trucks and then they cut costs and removed them. This plainly shows there was a problem. Another thing is plow manufacturers and their mounts, they don't build them liek they used to, maybe there is a reason? Is it for break away in a accident, don't know? How about some manufacturers step in this thread an doffer some input, seeing as how GM is blaming some of thison their heavy plows.


----------



## 09Busa

PetalsandPines;1234050 said:


> Ok ...lets all drop it now....you guys are right....Right??? I hope Karma slaps you in the face when something out of your control happens and you see your hard work and $$$$ go down the drain with no recourse.....Bottom line....Chevy should not have a plow prep package, Plows should not be allowed on trucks and if they do it should only be for personal use and max. 3 inches of fluffy snow. And all the plow companies that create those plows and sponsor this site should just cheapen the products to conform to a cheaply built and poorly designed vehicle.....But just know something.....The dealers know about this problem because all the body shop managers I talked to today said they have either seen this before or have personally heard of it..... Oh by the way those buying the new trucks with the "urea" emission controls...God love ya, you got a big issue on your hands according to the largest chevy dealer here. ussmileyflag buy AMerican!!


Guys have been talking about this on this site forever. WHERE were you then? Were you rallying the troops then? No. You were not. now the problem has come home to roost and you want everyone to join your class action with pics and testimonials. As it has been said, you know you were overweight.......dry your tears, get it fixed and stand on your own two feet. Karma? Here is yours. Hope you come out to your plow, motor and front bumper lying in your driveway. That's for wishing bad on the rest of these guys.


----------



## PetalsandPines

ok Moron..your're one to talk...Ive been a member of plowsite for 10 years now....Occasionally will reference plowsite for information.....I never knew there was a problem until i did a search on MY problem.....So your'e argument is weak. Loser


----------



## PetalsandPines

PetalsandPines;1236511 said:


> ok Moron..your're one to talk...Ive been a member of plowsite for 10 years now....Occasionally will reference plowsite for information.....I never knew there was a problem until i did a search on MY problem.....So your'e argument is weak. Loser


Forgot to ask...How many bags of groceries can you get in that short box pretty chevy you own before its overloaded??


----------



## dlcs

Am I the only one who thinks it may have to do with the brands of plows, type of mounts, body style, the type of spreader in the bed, etc?


----------



## 09Busa

PetalsandPines;1236513 said:


> Forgot to ask...How many bags of groceries can you get in that short box pretty chevy you own before its overloaded??


Definition of a moron........been on this site for ten years and has never heard of cracked frames prior to "HIS" cracked frame. 
Don't hate on my truck fata**........jusy cuz you overloaded yours with not only your plow, but your fat cousins Luke, BobbySue, etc..........


----------



## NBI Lawn

simoncx;1236410 said:


> Some of you guys sound like your getting a cut for gm, in all honesty a *1 ton truck *should handle that plow without a problem thats why we buy them. Everyone knows there is a problem with gm frames breaking but no one wants to admit it and making excuses that *he's 200 pounds over*, bs. I'm not saying put a 12' plow on but if it *has a plow package *from the factory you should be able to put a decent plow on, what do they think your going to put on a 1 ton dually, a 6' plow off a jeep? This is just becoming a pissing match with bs excuses and straying further from the point that a 1 ton shouldn't be breaking like this.


1) Yes it is a 3500...not a 4500 or 5500.

2) He is overweight, period. Why does this need to go on. If he had a 9' Straight blade on there I would be singing a different tune. Then there is no excuse then since that would fall within the weight specs (I am not saying you can only run straight blades).

3) Plow Prep package has NOTHING to do with the frame. You get heavier torsion bars so it doesnt squat as much with the weight of a plow that falls within the guidlines that GM sets forth. It also comes "HD" parts under the hood to aid in the draw from the plow.

I have a factory towing package on my truck... If I hooked a 30,000lb tag trailer behind it and stuff broke is GM liable?

The way I see it is this guy is making it more difficult for the guys that follow the rules to make a legitimate claim with GM should we need to. He has admitted to being overweight (abuse) and still wants GM to pay for it .

Seriously just weld it and be done. My brothers '95 1 ton dump's frame broke...because it is overweight! Nobodys fault but his own. Welded it back together, made some gussets and straps, been plowing for the last 3 years issue free.


----------



## jomama45

I think that you would have gotten far more help & support here if you wouldn't have been so combative and quick to dish out the childish insults, not to mention attempting to put the responsibility on the back of everyone but yourself...............

Good luck.........


----------



## gtmustang00

Bottom line is who buys a 1 ton to go get groceries and go to the dump on Saturdays? Not most people. They are work trucks and frames shouldn't be breaking. Beef the truck up from the factory so the frame wont break. This isn't a Japanese truck...


----------



## 09Busa

dlcs;1236524 said:


> Am I the only one who thinks it may have to do with the brands of plows, type of mounts, body style, the type of spreader in the bed, etc?


Absolutely...........not only is he overwieght plow wise, I think he has dump body, not to mention that he is a rotund 275lbs.........have to think his lunchbox full of ring dings contributed as well


----------



## jomama45

dlcs;1236524 said:


> Am I the only one who thinks it may have to do with the brands of plows, type of mounts, body style, the type of spreader in the bed, etc?


Not at all. As I stated in one of these threads, there's been a few Ford w/ Blizzards that encountered the same problems this year.


----------



## dlcs

1) Yes it is a 3500...not a 4500 or 5500.

2) He is overweight, period. Why does this need to go on. If he had a 9' Straight blade on there I would be singing a different tune. Then there is no excuse then since that would fall within the weight specs (I am not saying you can only run straight blades).

_Really? A Meyer 8' poly plow weighs almost as must as a Blizard 810, not all straight blades are lightweight

3) Plow Prep package has NOTHING to do with the frame. You get heavier torsion bars so it doesnt squat as much with the weight of a plow that falls within the guidlines that GM sets forth. It also comes "HD" parts under the hood to aid in the draw from the plow.

No, with plow prep only comes with a button for your roof light and a hole in the firewall for plow harness. Torsion bars are not heavier on a plow prepped truck. Plolw prep used to include the gussets, I wonder why GM removed them?


I have a factory towing package on my truck... If I hooked a 30,000lb tag trailer behind it and stuff broke is GM liable?

The way I see it is this guy is making it more difficult for the guys that follow the rules to make a legitimate claim with GM should we need to. He has admitted to being overweight (abuse) and still wants GM to pay for it .

Seriously just weld it and be done. My brothers '95 1 ton dump's frame broke...because it is overweight! Nobodys fault but his own. Welded it back together, made some gussets and straps, been plowing for the last 3 years issue free._


----------



## 09Busa

gtmustang00;1236530 said:


> Bottom line is who buys a 1 ton to go get groceries and go to the dump on Saturdays? Not most people. They are work trucks and frames shouldn't be breaking. Beef the truck up from the factory so the frame wont break. This isn't a Japanese truck...


Bottom line is this..........weight limits that ANY manufacturer sets forth are for a reason. If you go over them, be a man, stand on your own two feet and DO NO wish ill will on those that tell you that you are wrong


----------



## tuney443

PetalsandPines;1236511 said:


> ok Moron..your're one to talk...Ive been a member of plowsite for 10 years now....Occasionally will reference plowsite for information.....I never knew there was a problem until i did a search on MY problem.....So your'e argument is weak. Loser


No,his argument is not weak and you are now showing your immaturity by calling him names.Grade school behavior.If you start talking like that to GM,your plow dealer,and/or your insurance company,you definitely won't get very far.You say you've been a member for 10 years,except you really have no postings that reflect that--I think I saw 200 or so,so where have you been--looking at the ''calendar girls'' mostly? Come-on,get real here,the frame issue has been discussed here ad nauseam as well as countless other GM forums.For all the time you've been whining here about this,you could have had your truck fixed by now.


----------



## gtmustang00

09Busa;1236540 said:


> Bottom line is this..........weight limits that ANY manufacturer sets forth are for a reason. If you go over them, be a man, stand on your own two feet and DO NO wish ill will on those that tell you that you are wrong


Exactly, same goes for modifying a vehicle. If it blows up, blame yourself, not the manufacturer. I see no case if this vehicle was overweight.


----------



## 09Busa

PetalsandPines;1236513 said:


> Forgot to ask...How many bags of groceries can you get in that short box pretty chevy you own before its overloaded??


By the way chubby.....now that your frame is cracked straight through.........all YOU will be hauling is groceries


----------



## NBI Lawn

gtmustang00;1236530 said:


> Bottom line is who buys a 1 ton to go get groceries and go to the dump on Saturdays? Not most people. They are work trucks and frames shouldn't be breaking. Beef the truck up from the factory so the frame wont break. This isn't a Japanese truck...


They should when they are overweight! JESUS, why is that so hard to understand? What do you say when you see a 1/2ton overloaded??? Well this a 1ton that was overloaded just the same as overloading a 1/2ton.

They do beef up the trucks at the factory to hold more wieght...they are called 4500 and 5500's. If he didn't want it to break he should have spent $60,000 (because cost matters apparently) and got a 5500. Again, a 5500 will theoretically break too if pushed beyond its limit.

Just because it says 3500 on the door doesn't mean it's bullet proof and can handle anything you throw at it. It too has its breaking point which isn't as much as 90% of people think I guess.


----------



## plowking35

It would seem to me that more time has been wasted crying moaning b#tching and talking about this problem, then it would have taken to fix it.
I still think think this is an easier fix than a new engine in a 6.0 ford.
Its a 4 year old truck and that kinda sucks, yet you see more plowing in 1 season then allot of our trucks will see in a life of use.
If the rest of the truck is good, just get it fixed. Or in the spring do a solid front axel swap and frame strengthening.
A good body/ frame shop can have this repair done in less than a week and you will be back in business.
I can not imagine that any insurance company wants to chase this down unless there was an accident with injuries and they are trying to midigate their end of the claim.


----------



## 09Busa

NBI Lawn;1236551 said:


> They should when they are overweight! JESUS, why is that so hard to understand? What do you say when you see a 1/2ton overloaded??? Well this a 1ton that was overloaded just the same as overloading a 1/2ton.
> 
> They do beef up the trucks at the factory to hold more wieght...they are called 4500 and 5500's. If he didn't want it to break he should have spent $60,000 (because cost matters apparently) and got a 5500. Again, a 5500 will theoretically break too if pushed beyond its limit.
> 
> Just because it says 3500 on the door doesn't mean it's bullet proof and can handle anything you throw at it. It too has its breaking point which isn't as much as 90% of people think I guess.


Could not have said it better myself.........


----------



## dlcs

So, according to all the plowsite enginerers here, you should not mount a Blzzard 810 on any GM truck less than 4500? Do we all agree? Lets post this in the Blizzard forum.


----------



## tuney443

09Busa;1236550 said:


> By the way chubby.....now that your frame is cracked straight through.........all YOU will be hauling is groceries


OUCH--Ring Dings?


----------



## dlcs

tuney443;1236560 said:


> OUCH--Ring Dings?


You guys are cruel, the man is upset that his truck is broke. I would be too and so would the rest of you.


----------



## PetalsandPines

the truck is not overweight. that is it. period...I am combative to the people that are insulting . I wanted this thread to be a legitimate discussion of those with cracked frames....not those with pretty 2011's with the redesigned frame...not those with Fords or dodges...only those who own the same truck, same type of set up and are having the same problems. Did Gm cover it? Did They deny you? And if so...did you get it in writing. People who have nothing better to do with their time is whats causing the problem here...the pointless pissing matches. Have any of you got a letter from a GM rep and why they wont cover it??? My regional rep has been dodging this issue for a week now and will not give my dealership a reason of why they are denying it......Just answer me why GM? WHY? And put it in writing and I will be done and I will post it in this forum so others can make an educated decision of whether or not they want to purchase a truck like this. It has come to the point that my lawyer is now having to do the legwork because my dealership and his relation to the GM rep is in question...Just Put it in writing...sign your name to it GM and that is it case closed.


----------



## PetalsandPines

dlcs;1236558 said:


> So, according to all the plowsite enginerers here, you should not mount a Blzzard 810 on any GM truck less than 4500? Do we all agree? Lets post this in the Blizzard forum.


Yes ..Blizzard is a sponsor...why isnt anyone from blizzard chiming in here?

by the way....whats a ring ding?


----------



## wizardsr

dlcs;1236568 said:


> You guys are cruel, the man is upset that his truck is broke. I would be too and so would the rest of you.


Nope. When the frame broke on my Ford, I brought it to a frame shop, paid them to fix it, and put it back to work. No reason to get upset, no reason to cry, no reason to waste Ford's the Ford dealer's time, no reason to fling insults at other people on an internet forum, etc. Just got it fixed so it could continue to make me money. payup


----------



## NBI Lawn

dlcs;1236539 said:


> _Really? A Meyer 8' poly plow weighs almost as must as a Blizard 810, not all straight blades are lightweight
> 
> No, with plow prep only comes with a button for your roof light and a hole in the firewall for plow harness. Torsion bars are not heavier on a plow prepped truck. Plolw prep used to include the gussets, I wonder why GM removed them?
> 
> 
> _


_

Well then it looks like a 8' Meyer technically shouldn't he on that truck either. Whats the issue?

I have a truck with a plug in the firewall that doesnt have a plow prep. That is just standard I think. GM offers two different torsion bars as far as I know and one is intended for plowing.

I am by no means a mechanic or a GM expert here. I do however has some experience in business law. The facts are here and have been admitted by the owner... the truck is over weight. Regardless if he did it on accident and didn't realize it or if he thinks a 1 ton should hold more weight, it doesn't really matter. Facts are Facts.

Other GM frames have broken in the past that is no secret. They break when operated over the limit just as anything else will. GM's just seem to break close to the limit and don't have a ton of give.

You imply GM took the gussets away as a cost cutting measure. That really stupid if you ask me. If they were going to cut costs they would do away with roof lights or may plow prep trucks only available with rubber floors and crank windows before they make frames structurally unsound. I am sure GM removed them so they can deal with situations like this .

If this were to go to court here is what they would look at.

Was this truck over its weight rating? YES, case closed

"I didn't know", "my route is only two hours", "It's a 1 ton" "I didn't ask for this" ... are all excuses that don't matter. Facts are facts.

The only reason I continue to post is because it actually makes me mad that this guy fells he is entitled to a new frame or that GM is responsible for the repairs after admitting he is overweight._


----------



## wizardsr

PetalsandPines;1236573 said:


> Yes ..Blizzard is a sponsor...why isnt anyone from blizzard chiming in here?


Why would they? They didn't break your truck...


----------



## dlcs

wizardsr;1236577 said:


> Nope. When the frame broke on my Ford, I brought it to a frame shop, paid them to fix it, and put it back to work. No reason to get upset, no reason to cry, no reason to waste Ford's the Ford dealer's time, no reason to fling insults at other people on an internet forum, etc. Just got it fixed so it could continue to make me money. payup


Well i would get it fixed too because I couldn't afford to be down. But you can't tell me that you were not upset, If my truck frame would break(knock on wood) I would all over GM. I would probably post it here too. I recall seeing something about your ford frame on another site?


----------



## NBI Lawn

dlcs;1236558 said:


> So, according to all the plowsite enginerers here, you should not mount a Blzzard 810 on any GM truck less than 4500? Do we all agree? Lets post this in the Blizzard forum.


I'm not saying that. BUT you will be taxing a 1ton and it will be operating just on the outside of the operating envelope. Dont be mad when you have issues. Blizzard will admit that the plow is heavy...thats no secret.

I see guys all over the place with Blizzards and other heavy plows all the time. Why do we run these heavy plows??? Because they are larger and make our job easier and faster, time is money. We have to accept resposibility for our actions when we do stuff for our convenience.

I have already said I would be mad as hell if my frame broke. It comes down to just sucking it up, accepting responsibility for overloading it, get it fixed at a welding shop and carry on. In reality once it is welded and gusseted he will not even notice a difference. I have also said that *I too have dealt with a broken frame on a '95 1ton dump* .


----------



## dlcs

NBI Lawn;1236580 said:


> Well then it looks like a 8' Meyer technically shouldn't he on that truck either. Whats the issue?
> 
> I have a truck with a plug in the firewall that doesnt have a plow prep. That is just standard I think. GM offers two different torsion bars as far as I know and one is intended for plowing.
> 
> I am by no means a mechanic or a GM expert here. I do however has some experience in business law. The facts are here and have been admitted by the owner... the truck is over weight. Regardless if he did it on accident and didn't realize it or if he thinks a 1 ton should hold more weight, it doesn't really matter. Facts are Facts.
> 
> Other GM frames have broken in the past that is no secret. They break when operated over the limit just as anything else will. GM's just seem to break close to the limit and don't have a ton of give.
> 
> You imply GM took the gussets away as a cost cutting measure. That really stupid if you ask me. If they were going to cut costs they would do away with roof lights or may plow prep trucks only available with rubber floors and crank windows before they make frames structurally unsound. I am sure GM removed them so they can deal with situations like this .
> 
> If this were to go to court here is what they would look at.
> 
> Was this truck over its weight rating? YES, case closed
> 
> "I didn't know", "my route is only two hours", "It's a 1 ton" "I didn't ask for this" ... are all excuses that don't matter. Facts are facts.
> 
> The only reason I continue to post is because it actually makes me mad that this guy fells he is entitled to a new frame or that GM is responsible for the repairs after admitting he is overweight.


You don't thimk removing the gussets from a frame will save GM money. If you believe that, you really don't know anything about manufacturing. If they removed the other things that you said, GM would lose money as they couldn't charge for a loaded vehicle. Just like GM put those ignorant cooler lines on their trucks that always leak. The reason for those was to shave a few minutes in the assembly process any dealer will tell you that.

As far as plow prep, the extra hole in the firewall does come with pow prep and you get a roof beacon switch. If the plow doesn't have towing package then you get the tranny cooler. The torsion bars are all the same.


----------



## dlcs

NBI Lawn;1236591 said:


> I'm not saying that. BUT you will be taxing a 1ton and it will be operating just on the outside of the operating envelope. Dont be mad when you have issues. Blizzard will admit that the plow is heavy...thats no secret.


Blizzard also recomneds that plow on a 3/4hd too. If you can't go by the manufacturers recomendation than what good are they.


----------



## wizardsr

dlcs;1236587 said:


> Well i would get it fixed too because I couldn't afford to be down. But you can't tell me that you were not upset, If my truck frame would break(knock on wood) I would all over GM. I would probably post it here too. I recall seeing something about your ford frame on another site?


Indeed. But I was hardly upset or crying over it. Nor was I blaming anyone. I know where the flaws are, how the mount could be designed differently to prevent it, how the frame could be gusseted or designed differently to prevent this, etc. But that doesn't make me upset. The truck has been playing with a 1200lb plow for 6 years, frankly I'm pretty excited the truck has handled it that well for this long.


----------



## tuney443

dlcs;1236568 said:


> You guys are cruel, the man is upset that his truck is broke. I would be too and so would the rest of you.


No,not at all.I feel for him as it could have happened to my ride if I wasn't proactive by asking the correct questions,being a member here,welding in the gussets, not operating it like it was my bulldozer,and most importantly just using some good old common sense .And remember who started the childish behavior with the name calling.He's pissed with GM,so be it,but when you fire bullets,bullets get returned.


----------



## dlcs

Petals only problem is that his is a diesel but....the same thing happens on trucks with just a 6.0 gas engine too. I don't think weight has as much to do with as the mounts and frame engineering/design.


----------



## dlcs

wizardsr;1236602 said:


> Indeed. But I was hardly upset or crying over it. Nor was I blaming anyone. I know where the flaws are, how the mount could be designed differently to prevent it, how the frame could be gusseted or designed differently to prevent this, etc. But that doesn't make me upset. The truck has been playing with a 1200lb plow for 6 years, frankly I'm pretty excited the truck has handled it that well for this long.


Ok you say 1200lb plow is this a 810? i thought the 810 only weight 924?


----------



## 09Busa

tuney443;1236607 said:


> No,not at all.I feel for him as it could have happened to my ride if I wasn't proactive by asking the correct questions,being a member here,welding in the gussets, not operating it like it was my bulldozer,and most importantly just using some good old common sense .And remember who started the childish behavior with the name calling.He's pissed with GM,so be it,but when you fire bullets,bullets get returned.


Absolutely..........as usual........well said.......


----------



## NBI Lawn

dlcs;1236596 said:


> You don't thimk removing the gussets from a frame will save GM money. If you believe that, you really don't know anything about manufacturing. If they removed the other things that you said, GM would lose money as they couldn't charge for a loaded vehicle. Just like GM put those ignorant cooler lines on their trucks that always leak. The reason for those was to shave a few minutes in the assembly process any dealer will tell you that.
> 
> As far as plow prep, the extra hole in the firewall does come with pow prep and you get a roof beacon switch. If the plow doesn't have towing package then you get the tranny cooler. The torsion bars are all the same.


I said they would do away with other things to save money before they would "intentionally" make their frames unsound. Like I said I am no GM mechanic but my truck does not have the plow prep and it had the plug in the firewall. I consider the trans cooler "HD" equipment. My '99 does have a trans cooler, just put a monster cooler on to replace the factory one. What is the difference between the GL, GK and XG torsion bars? 


dlcs;1236601 said:


> Blizzard also recomneds that plow on a 3/4hd too. If you can't go by the manufacturers recomendation than what good are they.
> 
> Well then it sounds like he is going after the wrong people then. Sounds like the only people that told him not to put that much weight out front are the ones he is going after. I believe the front of a 3/4ton is also 4800lbs though.


----------



## 09Busa

PetalsandPines;1236569 said:


> the truck is not overweight. that is it. period...I am combative to the people that are insulting . I wanted this thread to be a legitimate discussion of those with cracked frames....not those with pretty 2011's with the redesigned frame...not those with Fords or dodges...only those who own the same truck, same type of set up and are having the same problems. Did Gm cover it? Did They deny you? And if so...did you get it in writing. People who have nothing better to do with their time is whats causing the problem here...the pointless pissing matches. Have any of you got a letter from a GM rep and why they wont cover it??? My regional rep has been dodging this issue for a week now and will not give my dealership a reason of why they are denying it......Just answer me why GM? WHY? And put it in writing and I will be done and I will post it in this forum so others can make an educated decision of whether or not they want to purchase a truck like this. It has come to the point that my lawyer is now having to do the legwork because my dealership and his relation to the GM rep is in question...Just Put it in writing...sign your name to it GM and that is it case closed.


Here is the end of it for me......I wanted to know WHY you wanted everyone to hold your hand in your plight, when where were you when other's frames cracked? By your own admission from your initial post, you spoke of reading posts on other cracked frames prior 
to it happening to you. You were yelling for them to take pictures, produce testimonials......How about the countless guys before you?
Because like much of society today........people only concern themselves when it happens to them. This is FINE! Then deal with it on your own and stop trying to make GM the culprit. Having a 4800lb front end, diesel and an 810 to boot, you know you were bucking the odds. Time to pay the devil..........


----------



## PetalsandPines

Please for the sake of pissing again....tell me how I am overloaded...when i took the truck to the certified scales yesterday and removed the 800 lbs of ballast behind the back axle and the plow itself....Theoretically by putting the ballast back in the truck i would be taking about two hundred pounds of pressure off the front axle weight. When re-installed i am well below the 12k rating gvw and below the 4800 lb front axle weight...


----------



## dlcs

NBI Lawn;1236638 said:


> I said they would do away with other things to save money before they would "intentionally" make their frames unsound. Like I said I am no GM mechanic but my truck does not have the plow prep and it had the plug in the firewall. I consider the trans cooler "HD" equipment.


Quit hoenstly I think Gm would do just that, a few complaints about frame breakage compared to thousands that will never see this problem. I'd like to know how much money GM saved by discontinuing the installation of these gussets.

Now Gm comes out with a tube frame on the 2011. I wonder why?


----------



## wizardsr

dlcs;1236611 said:


> Ok you say 1200lb plow is this a 810? i thought the 810 only weight 924?


8611lp with carbide edges and deflector, 1200lbs on the scale.


----------



## NBI Lawn

09Busa;1236644 said:


> Here is the end of it for me......I wanted to know WHY you wanted everyone to hold your hand in your plight, when where were you when other's frames cracked? By your own admission from your initial post, you spoke of reading posts on other cracked frames prior
> to it happening to you. You were yelling for them to take pictures, produce testimonials......How about the countless guys before you?
> Because like much of society today........people only concern themselves when it happens to them. This is FINE! Then deal with it on your own and stop trying to make GM the culprit. Having a 4800lb front end, diesel and an 810 to boot, you know you were bucking the odds. Time to pay the devil..........


Amen!


PetalsandPines;1236646 said:


> Please for the sake of pissing again....tell me how I am overloaded...when i took the truck to the certified scales yesterday and removed the 800 lbs of ballast behind the back axle and the plow itself....Theoretically by putting the ballast back in the truck i would be taking about two hundred pounds of pressure off the front axle weight. When re-installed i am well below the 12k rating gvw and below the 4800 lb front axle weight...


You said in another tread that you only put a snow blower in the back while plowing. You also said that with you in the truck you were 200lbs over limit and then went on with the whole "if my wife..." and "SO if I get groceries...". Dont back pedel and try changing your story so you can fall into specs. You admitted it was over weight a couple times now so pull out a couple hundred dollars and fix the truck and put it back to work.


----------



## PetalsandPines

09Busa;1236644 said:


> Here is the end of it for me......I wanted to know WHY you wanted everyone to hold your hand in your plight, when where were you when other's frames cracked? By your own admission from your initial post, you spoke of reading posts on other cracked frames prior
> to it happening to you. You were yelling for them to take pictures, produce testimonials......How about the countless guys before you?
> Because like much of society today........people only concern themselves when it happens to them. This is FINE! Then deal with it on your own and stop trying to make GM the culprit. Having a 4800lb front end, diesel and an 810 to boot, you know you were bucking the odds. Time to pay the devil..........


listen..this it it for me too....I own a garden center, multiple greenhouses and a landscaping business.... If i came across say a Geranium with an odd disease that i never saw of before and no one ever said "hey watch out for this odd disease" you bet your ass I would be online in a heartbeat to find out what it is because I personally have never seen it and it could be a developing issue in the greenhouse industry. Same here...I never knew there was problems with these trucks...it was only by searching plowsite that I found a pattern of the identical crack within the plowsite forums, googling or other gm forums...Then as i got more inquisitive I asked local dealers, body shops and mechanics if they have seen the identical crack....and furthermore yes they did......Then i asked some local plowers and yes its the identical crack...if you will...."The source of the disease if you want to make a comparison". Now when you see the identical crack in the same spot...truck after truck after truck....me as a consumer has to ask...is there a recall on this? no....ok...take it to the dealer, no problem, probably something that just happens...but when the dealers get arrogant and gm gets arrogant and wont put anything in writing after you have purchased multiple $38,000 +++ trucks from them.....wouldn't that send up a red flag to anyone? To me its not a matter of spending the money to fix it...to me it is do i want to see this happen again, do i want to see a scabbed frame and lose my money either on trade in or resale can i help contribute to this forum my total experience with this problem from day 1. Someone comes into my store and asks for a shrub that will take full sun,and harsh windy conditions . Im not gonna sell them something that will take the sun, the windy conditions but as it matures can possibly split...I'm gonna sell them a strong solid oak tree that is overkill! Its about integrity, when i bought my 04 its was an 8 liter gas jobber and i had the right plow put on it, when i traded it in and bought the 07 it was a diesel but the frames matched and the blizzard swapped out easily and i was assured it was the right plow for the truck...I only had the 04 for 3 years....and this is the fourth year on my 07 so maybe there is internal weakness in these frames and i didnt know because i didnt own this type of truck for long enough..And those that say abuse...tell me why my blizzard isnt twisted, and the frame and pins line up with precision and there are no weld cracks on the frame??? Just like a car has a crumple zone....wouldnt the plow also have an engineered point where it would crack before the truck would crack?. So what could happen if i got in a head on collision with the vehicle is the frame is going to buckle on the truck but the plow is going to put that duramax in my lap? Will the plow hit dead on even going to allow the airbags to inflate???


----------



## tuney443

PetalsandPines;1236677 said:


> listen..this it it for me too....I own a garden center, multiple greenhouses and a landscaping business.... If i came across say a Geranium with an odd disease that i never saw of before and no one ever said "hey watch out for this odd disease" you bet your ass I would be online in a heartbeat to find out what it is because I personally have never seen it and it could be a developing issue in the greenhouse industry. Same here...I never knew there was problems with these trucks...it was only by searching plowsite that I found a pattern of the identical crack within the plowsite forums, googling or other gm forums...Then as i got more inquisitive I asked local dealers, body shops and mechanics if they have seen the identical crack....and furthermore yes they did......Then i asked some local plowers and yes its the identical crack...if you will...."The source of the disease if you want to make a comparison". Now when you see the identical crack in the same spot...truck after truck after truck....me as a consumer has to ask...is there a recall on this? no....ok...take it to the dealer, no problem, probably something that just happens...but when the dealers get arrogant and gm gets arrogant and wont put anything in writing after you have purchased multiple $38,000 +++ trucks from them.....wouldn't that send up a red flag to anyone? To me its not a matter of spending the money to fix it...to me it is do i want to see this happen again, do i want to see a scabbed frame and lose my money either on trade in or resale can i help contribute to this forum my total experience with this problem from day 1. Someone comes into my store and asks for a shrub that will take full sun,and harsh windy conditions . Im not gonna sell them something that will take the sun, the windy conditions but as it matures can possibly split...I'm gonna sell them a strong solid oak tree that is overkill! Its about integrity, when i bought my 04 its was an 8 liter gas jobber and i had the right plow put on it, when i traded it in and bought the 07 it was a diesel but the frames matched and the blizzard swapped out easily and i was assured it was the right plow for the truck...I only had the 04 for 3 years....and this is the fourth year on my 07 so maybe there is internal weakness in these frames and i didnt know because i didnt own this type of truck for long enough..And those that say abuse...tell me why my blizzard isnt twisted, and the frame and pins line up with precision and there are no weld cracks on the frame??? Just like a car has a crumple zone....wouldnt the plow also have an engineered point where it would crack before the truck would crack?. So what could happen if i got in a head on collision with the vehicle is the frame is going to buckle on the truck but the plow is going to put that duramax in my lap? Will the plow hit dead on even going to allow the airbags to inflate???


So to elaborate on your analogy of the mighty Oak tree sapling that you sold your customer that won't split after it matures. Suppose that customer comes back to you in say 10 years for argument's sake and tells you they were using what appeared to be a strong looking lower branch as an anchor point for their chain hoist and while they were pulling out their 800 lb. engine,the branch cracked with the engine up in the air and now when it fell,not only did the engine get damaged,the vehicle did also,and the tree now looks like crap.Are you going to refund him any money for the initial cost of the tree plus the damage costs???You think about that because it's pretty close to what you're asking and expecting of GM.


----------



## Squires

tuney443;1236752 said:


> So to elaborate on your analogy of the mighty Oak tree sapling that you sold your customer that won't split after it matures. Suppose that customer comes back to you in say 10 years for argument's sake and tells you they were using what appeared to be a strong looking lower branch as an anchor point for their chain hoist and while they were pulling out their 800 lb. engine,the branch cracked with the engine up in the air and now when it fell,not only did the engine get damaged,the vehicle did also,and the tree now looks like crap.Are you going to refund him any money for the initial cost of the tree plus the damage costs???You think about that because it's pretty close to what you're asking and expecting of GM.


Ok.....that was terrable........
The simple fact of the matter is that there was a serious design flaw on this generation of truck, be it gas or diesel. All the bashing would possibly be warranted if he was useing a god aweful big municipal plow that was made for an international dump or equilivant sized vehicle, so what if he was over weight on the front axle.

Facts in this case are against him yes, but this has happened to countless others, with smaller within spec plows and it was not the axle that failed it was the frame.

For the people wanting to know where he was when others had problems, those other people went about it in a different fasion, they didn't reachout to others to try and do something about it, there in lies the problem, letting big business get away with things that they should be held accountable for.

Crazies sueing the NFL over seating problems at the superbowl thats crazyness and a maste of everyones time.

Someone (and everyone else who has seen the frame failure) who wants an answer from gm and wants a solution to a problem that not only he has faced himself, but one that has faced 100's to 1000's of hard working people, i see no problem in that. If they can't decide if they are going to gusset or not gusset a frame means that they know there is a problem but won't own up to it in hopes that fixing one here and there when the problem comes to light might be cheaper than finding a permanent solution to the problem is part of the reason that the econoly sucks like it does today.
If you can not stand by your product once it leaves the showroom floor than you have no business being in business, and that goes for all manufacturers not just GM and not just the automotive industry either. Big business has gotten used to society as a whole living in a disposable environment, things don't last like they did in the past, they cost alot more, but they don't last, and corporate world has cought onto this, build it as cheap as possible and sell it for top dollar, padding the pockets of investors and stock holders all the while sticking it to joe blow consumer, who without their purchases the compand wouldn't even exist.
End Rant:realmad:


----------



## dlcs

Squires;1236781 said:


> Ok.....that was terrable........
> The simple fact of the matter is that there was a serious design flaw on this generation of truck, be it gas or diesel. All the bashing would possibly be warranted if he was useing a god aweful big municipal plow that was made for an international dump or equilivant sized vehicle, so what if he was over weight on the front axle.
> 
> Facts in this case are against him yes, but this has happened to countless others, with smaller within spec plows and it was not the axle that failed it was the frame.
> 
> For the people wanting to know where he was when others had problems, those other people went about it in a different fasion, they didn't reachout to others to try and do something about it, there in lies the problem, letting big business get away with things that they should be held accountable for.
> 
> Crazies sueing the NFL over seating problems at the superbowl thats crazyness and a maste of everyones time.
> 
> Someone (and everyone else who has seen the frame failure) who wants an answer from gm and wants a solution to a problem that not only he has faced himself, but one that has faced 100's to 1000's of hard working people, i see no problem in that. If they can't decide if they are going to gusset or not gusset a frame means that they know there is a problem but won't own up to it in hopes that fixing one here and there when the problem comes to light might be cheaper than finding a permanent solution to the problem is part of the reason that the econoly sucks like it does today.
> If you can not stand by your product once it leaves the showroom floor than you have no business being in business, and that goes for all manufacturers not just GM and not just the automotive industry either. Big business has gotten used to society as a whole living in a disposable environment, things don't last like they did in the past, they cost alot more, but they don't last, and corporate world has cought onto this, build it as cheap as possible and sell it for top dollar, padding the pockets of investors and stock holders all the while sticking it to joe blow consumer, who without their purchases the compand wouldn't even exist.
> End Rant:realmad:


Couldn't have said it better.


----------



## PetalsandPines

Thank you for the positive posts once again and all those that sent me private messages of people to call that can document hundreds of these cases...I would honestly like to divulge more information to you guys, and the ball busters...but for pending legal issues I cant....but I dont hate anyone on this forum regardless of opinions or copy and paste specs Thumbs Up 

Still i am asking whats a ring ding? I'm serious


----------



## dlcs

PetalsandPines;1236791 said:


> Still i am asking whats a ring ding? I'm serious


From the Urban Dictionary:

a word commonly used in comedy acts. believed to be a hostest treat. never actually existed but stereotyped as what fat people eat.


----------



## Mister Plow




----------



## tuney443

Squires;1236781 said:


> Ok.....that was terrable........
> The simple fact of the matter is that there was a serious design flaw on this generation of truck, be it gas or diesel. All the bashing would possibly be warranted if he was useing a god aweful big municipal plow that was made for an international dump or equilivant sized vehicle, so what if he was over weight on the front axle.
> 
> Facts in this case are against him yes, but this has happened to countless others, with smaller within spec plows and it was not the axle that failed it was the frame.
> 
> For the people wanting to know where he was when others had problems, those other people went about it in a different fasion, they didn't reachout to others to try and do something about it, there in lies the problem, letting big business get away with things that they should be held accountable for.
> 
> Crazies sueing the NFL over seating problems at the superbowl thats crazyness and a maste of everyones time.
> 
> Someone (and everyone else who has seen the frame failure) who wants an answer from gm and wants a solution to a problem that not only he has faced himself, but one that has faced 100's to 1000's of hard working people, i see no problem in that. If they can't decide if they are going to gusset or not gusset a frame means that they know there is a problem but won't own up to it in hopes that fixing one here and there when the problem comes to light might be cheaper than finding a permanent solution to the problem is part of the reason that the econoly sucks like it does today.
> If you can not stand by your product once it leaves the showroom floor than you have no business being in business, and that goes for all manufacturers not just GM and not just the automotive industry either. Big business has gotten used to society as a whole living in a disposable environment, things don't last like they did in the past, they cost alot more, but they don't last, and corporate world has cought onto this, build it as cheap as possible and sell it for top dollar, padding the pockets of investors and stock holders all the while sticking it to joe blow consumer, who without their purchases the compand wouldn't even exist.
> End Rant:realmad:


No,it wasn't terrible,it was actually right on point.And to mention something else that hasn't been discussed that much here is how one plows with their GM truck.I'm sure we all know the local idiot who loves to see how far he can make snow fly up into the air while crashing into the snow pile.Not saying the OP falls into this category,only mentioning it because I'm sure some frame failures can be traced back to improper plowing,either with or without being overweight on FAWR,RAWR,and/or GVWR.How would GM protect themselves from ridiculous,unfounded warranty claims from people like that? I know one guy by me who has buckled in half right behind his cab 2 Ford trucks.There isn't a pickup truck alive that this guy can't kill.


----------



## NBI Lawn

Squires;1236781 said:


> Ok.....that was terrable........
> The simple fact of the matter is that there was a serious design flaw on this generation of truck, be it gas or diesel. All the bashing would possibly be warranted if he was useing a god aweful big municipal plow that was made for an international dump or equilivant sized vehicle, so what if *he was over weight on the front axle*.
> 
> *Facts in this case are against him *yes, but this has happened to countless others, with smaller within spec plows and it was not the axle that failed it was the frame.
> 
> For the people wanting to know where he was when others had problems, those other people went about it in a different fasion, they didn't reachout to others to try and do something about it, there in lies the problem, letting big business get away with things that they should be held accountable for.
> 
> Crazies sueing the NFL over seating problems at the superbowl thats crazyness and a maste of everyones time.
> 
> Someone (and everyone else who has seen the frame failure) who wants an answer from gm and wants a solution to a problem that not only he has faced himself, but one that has faced 100's to 1000's of hard working people, i see no problem in that. If they can't decide if they are going to gusset or not gusset a frame means that they know there is a problem but won't own up to it in hopes that fixing one here and there when the problem comes to light might be cheaper than finding a permanent solution to the problem is part of the reason that the econoly sucks like it does today.
> If you can not stand by your product once it leaves the showroom floor than you have no business being in business, and that goes for all manufacturers not just GM and not just the automotive industry either. Big business has gotten used to society as a whole living in a disposable environment, things don't last like they did in the past, they cost alot more, but they don't last, and corporate world has cought onto this, build it as cheap as possible and sell it for top dollar, padding the pockets of investors and stock holders all the while sticking it to joe blow consumer, who without their purchases the compand wouldn't even exist.
> End Rant:realmad:


IF we had been talking about a legitimate claim here I personally would be saying things differently. Fact is this guy should NOT have a valid claim with GM. Let the guys with valid claims try to do something. Over weight is over weight no matter if its 2lbs or 2000lbs.

I would be willing to bet that GM did many tests and found that if operated with in specs there was no real need for the gussets and thats why they did away with them. I personally have never seen a truck factory equipped with them, does anyone have a picture of a factory gusset job?

Point is, this guy came on plowsite and said "hey guys I need your help! I knowing overloaded my truck and it broke. Now I need your help to sue GM! I dont think it should have broken because I own a green house and my route only takes 2hrs."

ANOTHER ANALOGY:
Dodge transmisisons are known to be garbage (I have never had a problem). Dodge themselves know it and just fix them on a case by case basis. I come forward and say " Hey guys I drive around with my EDGE cranked up on stage 5 and now my trans is junk. I think Dodge should pay for it because they know there is a problem anyways." Do I have a case?

In my analogy and the case at hand both vehicles were operated outside what the operating envelope. The Dodge trans was designed to handle 600tq and I put 1000 through it. A GM frame is designed to handle 4800lbs and he put about, roughly, approximately, ~ , around, close to, etc 5000+lbs.

If Pines gets his truck fixed I am going to start a claim for the 95 sitting in my driveway. Same deal.


----------



## PetalsandPines

Mister Plow;1236801 said:


>


never seen those...they look pretty good!wesport


----------



## Squires

Fact of the matter is, taking this guys personal situation out of the equasion, there is a problem, and the company should be responsible.

Just like Ford had engine problems and they came out with a new engine, just because they came out with a fix for a different model year, doesn't mean that everyone else should be up **** creek because they fixed it for the next generation.

It isn't a dodge trans(nor is it a Oak branch), and good on them for fixing them, and i agree that you can never be sure in the end if it was abused or not, trucks might not have been on stage 5 tearing around town like a race car, but bone stock ones could have been hauling trailers around town that are 1.5 times or more heavier than the truck is rated for, so should every trans failure be thrown out because of the "well maybe be did this with his truck" scenario?

You can never account for everyone in the world and how they are going to treat a vehicle, people overload minivans going on summer vacation, tow boats to the lake a couple of times a summer with vehicles that arn't rated to handle the load, these vehicles go in for warranty work later with just one person on board and get warranty items fixed, but if the dealer said, hmmm well if they had 6 250lb passengers onboard than thats probably why the strut is gone, and that big pothole on main street, yeah maybe they hit that too, were not fixing this now......what would the point of there ever being warranties ever?

GM obviously know about the problem, the proof is in the 2011, if the frames in question were fine, why bother with all the R&D that went into the all new HD's?

As i said before the fact that they were on again off again with the gussets means that they knew of the problem, but in their cost analysis, the extra manufacturing cost wasn't worth it to them, so they drop it, fix a truck here and there when someone kicks up enough of a fuss, and hope that the majority will say it isn't worth the flight and give up and fix it them selves, the simple inexpensive( if caught soon enough) fix that should be there from the factory. If they had recalled these vehicles this topic apparantly wouldn't even exist as apparantly no one with gussets ever has a problem, the first time, or repeat problems.

Then comes the plow makers themselves, they have the specs and a truck from the manufacturer in their posetion to make the mounts to begin with, given this they too should be responsible for only selling a product that can meet the manufacturers ratings of the different vehicles, meaning that if it is too heavy a mount for it shouldn't exist to begin with.

Anyway this is like beating a dead horse, P&P hopefully you get somewhere with it, not only for YOU but for everyone else who has been affected by this obvious design flaw.


----------



## NBI Lawn

This is to be a helpful post. Here are all the different torsion bars GM uses. Get under your truck and see which ones you have just for fun.

http://www.gmfullsize.com/tech/torsion401.html


----------



## PetalsandPines

chevy dealer is apparently not wanting to get involved.....local gm rep is not answering to the chevy dealer...so the chevy dealer gave me the contacts to go above the regional rep and work my way back down the chain of command as stated by dealer....this is something we cant deal with on a local level.

on the phone now with gm...they are surprised at the lack of communication between local rep and dealer and are now investigating the matter....


----------



## PetalsandPines

*Help on its way??*

Help from the big kahoonas in detroit may be on its way........Its nice when big brass gets involved


----------



## plowking35

For those saying design flaw I ask this. 
How many trucks with plows have cracked frames? None of know, vs the millions of trucks they produced during that time period. In all likley hood less then 1 % of trucks produced had this issue.
Now if I can keep 99 % of my customers happy I am doing pretty good IMO
Now if 25 % of that 1% were aggravated by overloaded front axel then the problem is really limited to a very few trucks.
I am not an advocate for GM, but when something happens to you personally then its a really big issue. When a dealer and body shop says of yeah we see it all the time, what they mean is we have fixed a few.
I do know of one guy in Nova Scotia that had an 06 or 07 3500 SRW that cracked the frame under 10K miles and GM put a new frame under it.
NSMilligan was his screen name.
So for me I monitor and will fix as needed if it occurs to me. Passenger side is a pretty easy fix, drivers side would be a bit tougher.


----------



## plowking35

I just replied to another thread and it reminded me of bad reverse is in the 6.0 auto tranny trucks. Plow trucks pop reverse all the time.
Depending on who you go through for repair, that can run close to 4K for a new tranny.
Why isnt there a class action about that. I will bet my bottom dollar that allot more trannies and even engines for that matter are replaced out of warranty and out of pocket then frames that crack.
I have plow prep on my 06 with the 6.0 gas engine, do I sue when the tranny goes. 
My 99 needed a tranny rebuild this season, cost me 1500 with only 85 K on the truck.


----------



## PetalsandPines

NBI Lawn;1236851 said:


> This is to be a helpful post. Here are all the different torsion bars GM uses. Get under your truck and see which ones you have just for fun.
> 
> http://www.gmfullsize.com/tech/torsion401.html


Im not sure where to find the number...the front end is stamped AIR 306
And it has a made in Canada sticker on it


----------



## PetalsandPines

*Torsion Bar*

GL
8782
15528965 (LH)

15528966 (RH)

That was almost funny...crawl under your chevyThumbs Up


----------



## dlcs

Ok now this begs the question, does turning up the torsion bars increase the chances of frame breakage? GM recomends turning the bars up in their new brochures for the 2011. i do know first hand of the effects it had on my '99 2500nbs.


----------



## cwby_ram

Good question dlcs. I'll be interested in an answer on this one, as I was thinking about turning up the bars on my '95 2500, when I get ready to put a plow on it.


----------



## jklawn&Plow

dlcs;1236958 said:


> Ok now this begs the question, does turning up the torsion bars increase the chances of frame breakage? GM recomends turning the bars up in their new brochures for the 2011. i do know first hand of the effects it had on my '99 2500nbs.


Thought 2000 was the first year for NBS (maybe just 1500?)


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

PetalsandPines;1235832 said:


> OK....here goes...
> The front weight with the plow frame on is 3980 pounds
> Add The Plow weight according to specs is 950 lbs
> = 4,930 lbs
> 
> the Front GAWR "?" on the door says 4800 lbs.
> The scale recorded my fat 275 pound ass in the front seat
> 
> Rear weight was 4360 lbs.
> 
> Entire truck rated for 12,000 lbs
> 
> So If my fat ass is in the truck. My front axle is over weight by 130 lbs.
> If my wife is plowing, alone I'm within the 4800 lb limit by 18 pounds
> The rear was weighed with no ballast at all.
> 
> This was a certified scale weight that i just got...
> 
> We want to split hairs now?
> Maybe I should take my Strobes off and my nerf bars off the front...
> and my wife can plow for now on and she can even put a six pack of beer in the front seat and bring home a pizza??
> 
> Seriously?


Was running errands today and stopped at the scale. CCSB diesel, half tank of fuel, misc. crap in the box 100lbs, me 170lbs, 2 German Shepards in the back seat 165lbs.

No Plow 3520lbs With the Plow 4640lbs. So my 799lb plow added 1120lbs to the front axle. This is why I told you that you can't just add 950lbs to get your weight because you have weight transfer. That's 40% more. So that puts you at 1330lbs or 5310lbs on the front axle.

Not to pat myself on the back but i was within 65lbs of the weight of your truck, and said days ago you would be 6-700lbs over. Well I was off, you are atleast 510lbs over.

Just to be clear I'm not trying to be a jerk, just trying to inform and pass on knowledge. Weather or not you listen or disagree is up to you.


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

jklawn&Plow;1236970 said:


> Thought 2000 was the first year for NBS (maybe just 1500?)


Yes 1500's were 99'


----------



## PetalsandPines

I have been running 1000 lbs of ballast behind rear axle fully secured...so now how does the weight transfer affect the front...im not being combative at all...now i am just curious...unfortunately the closest CAT scale is 23 miles away....i would love to put the plow on, the ballast in the back and get the real numbers....but i know doing that now would be in the least very hazardous if not deadly


----------



## plowking35

To do this accuratley you need 4 separate scales on each wheel.Just putting the front or rear on the scale will not be completley accurate.


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

I honestly have no idea, every truck will be different depending on wheelbase, bla bla bla. The only way to know would be to weigh it.


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

plowking35;1237014 said:


> To do this accuratley you need 4 separate scales on each wheel.Just putting the front or rear on the scale will not be completley accurate.


Why? Please explain


----------



## plowking35

Each wheel will then have the exact weight represented. Driver weight fuel and load vaiance side to side will be represented accuratley.
many times a vehicle will come in under GVW when on a full scale yet when weighed independantly have one side of an axel over.
DOT nails truckers all the time here for that.


----------



## tuney443

plowking35;1237014 said:


> To do this accuratley you need 4 separate scales on each wheel.Just putting the front or rear on the scale will not be completley accurate.


You mean like when I get the latex glove exam from DOT plowking?


----------



## PetalsandPines

Oh good ole NY state


----------



## watatrp

plowking35;1237024 said:


> Each wheel will then have the exact weight represented. Driver weight fuel and load vaiance side to side will be represented accuratley.
> many times a vehicle will come in under GVW when on a full scale yet when weighed independantly have one side of an axel over.
> DOT nails truckers all the time here for that.


How would that info help with this situation? GM doesn't give their numbers per wheel. It's per axle isn't it?


----------



## dlcs

jklawn&Plow;1236970 said:


> Thought 2000 was the first year for NBS (maybe just 1500?)


In '99 all the 1500 had the NBS but there was both body styles availabe for the '99 2500.


----------



## 09Busa

Squires;1236848 said:


> Fact of the matter is, taking this guys personal situation out of the equasion, there is a problem, and the company should be responsible.
> 
> Just like Ford had engine problems and they came out with a new engine, just because they came out with a fix for a different model year, doesn't mean that everyone else should be up **** creek because they fixed it for the next generation.
> 
> It isn't a dodge trans(nor is it a Oak branch), and good on them for fixing them, and i agree that you can never be sure in the end if it was abused or not, trucks might not have been on stage 5 tearing around town like a race car, but bone stock ones could have been hauling trailers around town that are 1.5 times or more heavier than the truck is rated for, so should every trans failure be thrown out because of the "well maybe be did this with his truck" scenario?
> 
> You can never account for everyone in the world and how they are going to treat a vehicle, people overload minivans going on summer vacation, tow boats to the lake a couple of times a summer with vehicles that arn't rated to handle the load, these vehicles go in for warranty work later with just one person on board and get warranty items fixed, but if the dealer said, hmmm well if they had 6 250lb passengers onboard than thats probably why the strut is gone, and that big pothole on main street, yeah maybe they hit that too, were not fixing this now......what would the point of there ever being warranties ever?
> 
> GM obviously know about the problem, the proof is in the 2011, if the frames in question were fine, why bother with all the R&D that went into the all new HD's?
> 
> As i said before the fact that they were on again off again with the gussets means that they knew of the problem, but in their cost analysis, the extra manufacturing cost wasn't worth it to them, so they drop it, fix a truck here and there when someone kicks up enough of a fuss, and hope that the majority will say it isn't worth the flight and give up and fix it them selves, the simple inexpensive( if caught soon enough) fix that should be there from the factory. If they had recalled these vehicles this topic apparantly wouldn't even exist as apparantly no one with gussets ever has a problem, the first time, or repeat problems.
> 
> Then comes the plow makers themselves, they have the specs and a truck from the manufacturer in their posetion to make the mounts to begin with, given this they too should be responsible for only selling a product that can meet the manufacturers ratings of the different vehicles, meaning that if it is too heavy a mount for it shouldn't exist to begin with.
> 
> Anyway this is like beating a dead horse, P&P hopefully you get somewhere with it, not only for YOU but for everyone else who has been affected by this obvious design flaw.


Ummmm.......absolutely. If you are towing a trailer 1.5 times heavier than what the truck is rated for, they should absolutely not validate your claim. Do you not understand that the reason these new vehicles are so expensive has not only to do with materials, unions, etc, but also the costs incurred in what it takes to warranty this vehicle and for warrantying past vehicles. A few select of you ignore manufacturers ratings.........I have been guilty of it myself. Yet, I would not try to hold GM responsible for my choosing to roll the dice. Frame, tranny, motor, you name it.
Who do you think they pass these costs on to when you tow 14,500 lbs with your half ton, yet whine and think you get over when they repair it? Why alas, it is YOU! As it has been said, 2 or 200 lbs., their rarings are for a reason. Many times on here, you see guys telling someone to hang any plow they can find on any vehicle. "You will be fine". Well.......go find them now and ask them to pony up for a new frame. This guy said that he has been on this site for ten years and he only found out others had cracked frames when his cracked. Believe this if you will. I have been on here for three or four months and see this daily......(the one or two threads)
We are in the position we are in today in large part because GM knows we will hold them and others responsible for our own rolling of the dice.
They redesigned the 2011 frame as technology hopefully moves forward. All truck manufacturers attempt to make trucks stronger, more torque, HP, etc........Please do not ever frequent my business as you will blame me for anything you can find. Because I piled snow where you asked me to, and you drove into it and could not get out of your car, it is my fault. You will come on here and try to get others to side with you, as I should ignore what you have told me.


----------



## cwby_ram

09Busa;1237139 said:


> Ummmm.......absolutely. If you are towing a trailer 1.5 times heavier than what the truck is rated for, they should absolutely not validate your claim. Do you not understand that the reason these new vehicles are so expensive has not only to do with materials, unions, etc, but also the costs incurred in what it takes to warranty this vehicle and for warrantying past vehicles. A few select of you ignore manufacturers ratings.........I have been guilty of it myself. Yet, I would not try to hold GM responsible for my choosing to roll the dice. Frame, tranny, motor, you name it.
> Who do you think they pass these costs on to when you tow 14,500 lbs with your half ton, yet whine and think you get over when they repair it? Why alas, it is YOU! As it has been said, 2 or 200 lbs., their rarings are for a reason. Many times on here, you see guys telling someone to hang any plow they can find on any vehicle. "You will be fine". Well.......go find them now and ask them to pony up for a new frame. This guy said that he has been on this site for ten years and he only found out others had cracked frames when his cracked. Believe this if you will. I have been on here for three or four months and see this daily......(the one or two threads)
> We are in the position we are in today in large part because GM knows we will hold them and others responsible for our own rolling of the dice.
> They redesigned the 2011 frame as technology hopefully moves forward. All truck manufacturers attempt to make trucks stronger, more torque, HP, etc........Please do not ever frequent my business as you will blame me for anything you can find. Because I piled snow where you asked me to, and you drove into it and could not get out of your car, it is my fault. You will come on here and try to get others to side with you, as I should ignore what you have told me.


I have to agree, I've only been on here for a couple months and stumbled upon the Chevy frame issue. Planning on a plow for '95 next year, it'll get gussets first, that's for sure!


----------



## tuney443

watatrp;1237095 said:


> How would that info help with this situation? GM doesn't give their numbers per wheel. It's per axle isn't it?


Simple---1tire/wheel + 1 tire/wheel= 1 axle

In theory,it's the best way to accurately weigh a vehicle but unfortunately the DOT's scales ALWAYS seem to go against me.IOW--they are poor quality,not re calibrated not nearly enough.This from a mechanic who sells,installs,calibrates all the scales in my neck of the woods,including portable scales.


----------



## Squires

09Busa;1237139 said:


> Ummmm.......absolutely. If you are towing a trailer 1.5 times heavier than what the truck is rated for, they should absolutely not validate your claim. Do you not understand that the reason these new vehicles are so expensive has not only to do with materials, unions, etc, but also the costs incurred in what it takes to warranty this vehicle and for warrantying past vehicles. A few select of you ignore manufacturers ratings.........I have been guilty of it myself. Yet, I would not try to hold GM responsible for my choosing to roll the dice. Frame, tranny, motor, you name it.
> Who do you think they pass these costs on to when you tow 14,500 lbs with your half ton, yet whine and think you get over when they repair it? Why alas, it is YOU! As it has been said, 2 or 200 lbs., their rarings are for a reason. Many times on here, you see guys telling someone to hang any plow they can find on any vehicle. "You will be fine". Well.......go find them now and ask them to pony up for a new frame. This guy said that he has been on this site for ten years and he only found out others had cracked frames when his cracked. Believe this if you will. I have been on here for three or four months and see this daily......(the one or two threads)
> We are in the position we are in today in large part because GM knows we will hold them and others responsible for our own rolling of the dice.
> They redesigned the 2011 frame as technology hopefully moves forward. All truck manufacturers attempt to make trucks stronger, more torque, HP, etc........Please do not ever frequent my business as you will blame me for anything you can find. Because I piled snow where you asked me to, and you drove into it and could not get out of your car, it is my fault. You will come on here and try to get others to side with you, as I should ignore what you have told me.


ok i won't visit your business whatever it may be
But please open your eyes and see the big picture, GM isn't perfect i know that and i have had 4 in the past, all half ton silverado, 1 6.5L and 3 5.3L's
No one wants gm to recall every truck and replace the frame, they want them to look after the ones that have failed and install the gussets on the rest of them so they don't have to worry about the problems.
It appears that the problem will not present itself on the new models given the substantial frame upgrades....

If you feel that "protecting" big business from unhappy customers is the answer to a failing economy you got disappointment looming around the corner, the longer companies can mass produce things cutting corners and still turning big profits to their shareholders, the longer the problems will continue.

Also, since he should have been aware and done something about it himself(from all the posts and problems on this site alone) you further back up the fact that this problem has went unanswered for much too long and finally fixing it for 2011 doesn't mean GM can clean their hands of past problems still covered by the warranty period.


----------



## NBI Lawn

plowking35;1237014 said:


> To do this accuratley you need 4 separate scales on each wheel.Just putting the front or rear on the scale will not be completley accurate.


HAHA. That seems just backwards. Why would it matter if there was a scale under the rears? If a scale was there would it make the front lighter ?

Go get two bathroom type scales. Calibrate them so they read the same with you standing on it. Put one foot on each scale, add those numbers and I bet they ad up to the original number you had. Or take one scale and something of equal height, say a 2x4. Be sure you are centered and not favoring one leg (a truck cant shift weight). Take the number you get and and X it by two...I bet you get your original number again. I know because I just did it.


----------



## cwby_ram

NBI Lawn;1237257 said:


> HAHA. That seems just backwards. Why would it matter if there was a scale under the rears? If a scale was there would it make the front lighter ?
> 
> Go get two bathroom type scales. Calibrate them so they read the same with you standing on it. Put one foot on each scale, add those numbers and I bet they ad up to the original number you had. Or take one scale and something of equal height, say a 2x4. Be sure you are centered and not favoring one leg (a truck cant shift weight). Take the number you get and and X it by two...I bet you get your original number again. I know because I just did it.


Way to do the homework!Thumbs Up


----------



## watatrp

tuney443;1237167 said:


> Simple---1tire/wheel + 1 tire/wheel= 1 axle
> 
> In theory,it's the best way to accurately weigh a vehicle but unfortunately the DOT's scales ALWAYS seem to go against me.IOW--they are poor quality,not re calibrated not nearly enough.This from a mechanic who sells,installs,calibrates all the scales in my neck of the woods,including portable scales.


I understand that weighing each wheel is more accurate. The ratings that GM gives us is per axle. For arguements sake, if GM gives us axle ratings then we compare that to axle weights and not wheel weights. If GM told us that the driver wheel could only handle XX lbs then there would be a need for wheel weights.

I for one, noticed this problem early. I purchased a Tahoe w/ a plow on it without the gussets. Checked the frame and no cracks. Before I plowed my first snow with it, I had the gussets installed. Call it cheap $60 insurance. Something tells me that if GM is selectively replacing cracked frames and has at times installed the gussets that are exactly like the ones I installed, they know there is a problem. For them, it's most likely more cost effective to replace frames on those vehicles with owners that make the biggest fuss rather than repair them all.


----------



## plowking35

While yes it is per axel, but overall weight, front weight and rear weight separately all factor in. Driving front or rear wheels alone onto a scale may not give the entire picture of the stresses and torque loads put onto the frame and weight bearing members. 
Go back and reread the trapazoidal measurements that GM is going to hang him out to dry on.
GM I am sure has replaced frames on trucks. They were probably all with in the warranty period, and all on trucks that could be proven were not abused or overloaded.
Also allot has to do with the # of units a dealer sells and how willing the dealer is to go to bat for the customer.
Since his dealer has stepped away from the plate so to speak. I would be very surprised to see if GM replaces the frame.
Again by now the truck could have been repaired and put back into service, although from the tone of the allison tranny thread. I think he is still plowing with it. Which asks the question, why?


----------



## 09Busa

Squires;1237226 said:


> ok i won't visit your business whatever it may be
> But please open your eyes and see the big picture, GM isn't perfect i know that and i have had 4 in the past, all half ton silverado, 1 6.5L and 3 5.3L's
> No one wants gm to recall every truck and replace the frame, they want them to look after the ones that have failed and install the gussets on the rest of them so they don't have to worry about the problems.
> It appears that the problem will not present itself on the new models given the substantial frame upgrades....
> 
> If you feel that "protecting" big business from unhappy customers is the answer to a failing economy you got disappointment looming around the corner, the longer companies can mass produce things cutting corners and still turning big profits to their shareholders, the longer the problems will continue.
> 
> Also, since he should have been aware and done something about it himself(from all the posts and problems on this site alone) you further back up the fact that this problem has went unanswered for much too long and finally fixing it for 2011 doesn't mean GM can clean their hands of past problems still covered by the warranty period.


when you get away from the grocery getters and actually own/drive a 2500 or 3500, you can give your 2 cents.......until then keep backing the schlep that ignored GM's rating.......


----------



## topdj

I'm am so glad I did not buy a used 2500HD and got myself a 2011 looks like that Bail out money we gave GM was put to good use  I was under mine today the steering looks much beefier along with the brakes, suspension and the frame.


----------



## cwby_ram

topdj;1237581 said:


> I'm am so glad I did not buy a used 2500HD and got myself a 2011 looks like that Bail out money we gave GM was put to good use  I was under mine today the steering looks much beefier along with the brakes, suspension and the frame.


That's a sharp looking truck! Wasn't really a fan of the new look, but yours looks really nice!


----------



## BigLou80

watatrp;1237337 said:


> Something tells me that if GM is selectively replacing cracked frames and has at times installed the gussets that are exactly like the ones I installed, they know there is a problem. For them, it's most likely more cost effective to replace frames on those vehicles with owners that make the biggest fuss rather than repair them all.


What gets to me the most is the fact GM sent many (including mine) plow prepped equipped trucks out of the factory with the gussets installed. Why install the gussets on some trucks unless they knew there was a problem.


----------



## bow2no1

BigLou80;1237631 said:


> What gets to me the most is the fact GM sent many (including mine) plow prepped equipped trucks out of the factory with the gussets installed. Why install the gussets on some trucks unless they knew there was a problem.


just because they installed doesn't make it a problem....
they are just preparing the truck for a little more abuse. 
it keeps their ass covered knowing it going to a buyer that is going to abuse it.


----------



## PetalsandPines

plowking35;1237352 said:


> While yes it is per axel, but overall weight, front weight and rear weight separately all factor in. Driving front or rear wheels alone onto a scale may not give the entire picture of the stresses and torque loads put onto the frame and weight bearing members.
> Go back and reread the trapazoidal measurements that GM is going to hang him out to dry on.
> GM I am sure has replaced frames on trucks. They were probably all with in the warranty period, and all on trucks that could be proven were not abused or overloaded.
> Also allot has to do with the # of units a dealer sells and how willing the dealer is to go to bat for the customer.
> Since his dealer has stepped away from the plate so to speak. I would be very surprised to see if GM replaces the frame.
> Again by now the truck could have been repaired and put back into service, although from the tone of the allison tranny thread. I think he is still plowing with it. Which asks the question, why?


umm...no, truck is off the road, in my greenhouse on jack stands, ballast removed, plow off truck...anyone else wanna make stupid accusations??? And do you really want me to list the problems this piece of S^&T had for last 4 years i owned it? like driving it off the lot brand new and blowing a tranny line connection.....Great start with a new truck GM


----------



## PetalsandPines

09Busa;1237504 said:


> when you get away from the grocery getters and actually own/drive a 2500 or 3500, you can give your 2 cents.......until then keep backing the schlep that ignored GM's rating.......


you done with the name calling?


----------



## bow2no1

PetalsandPines;1237660 said:


> umm...no, truck is off the road, in my greenhouse on jack stands, ballast removed, plow off truck...anyone else wanna make stupid accusations??? And do you really want me to list the problems this piece of S^&T had for last 4 years i owned it? like driving it off the lot brand new and blowing a tranny line connection.....Great start with a new truck GM


quit your *****in....take the truck to gm and get the problem solved.
if they will not fix it....well i guess it's your fault and your problem....end of story....PERIOD!

what do you want from everyone here?
you keep going on and on like you think your going to force everyone to agree with you.
no one here can fix your problem.


----------



## quigleysiding

This thread is useless without pics. Lets see the pics


----------



## plowking35

Sorry, I assumed. 
My 07 OBS has hada few issues the worst being that I just replaced every steel line on the truck this past fall. 
However my sub just had his front brakes replaced on his 08 F 350 with 12000 miles. Cab and chassis with utility body. He babies this truck and every brake component was rusted beyond recognition.
Now his dealer has seen this before and even tho he was out of warranty they have extra money set aside to help customers with such issues.
Seems like a decent thing to do.
But that dealer sells allot of trucks, so ford goes out of their way to help that dealers customers.
All trucks have issues. It all depends what happens to your truck.
Remember all the 5 sp autos from ford that grenaded back in 04-05 ?
Easy fix but if you were 1 of tmany that had their truck sitting waiting for parts while snow piled up, you were kinda pissed


----------



## wizardsr

quigleysiding;1237681 said:


> This thread is useless without pics. Lets see the pics


Right on. For all any of us know, this guy is 100% troll and doesn't even own an 07 chebbie, much less one with a broken frame. 9 pages of arguing over something none of us even knows for sure exists...


----------



## tuney443

While we're all waiting to see the outcome of this and to cool down some jets,does anyone actually know/or have a Uncle Harry lawyer friend who knows how to get a class action lawsuit going?I've got a Polaris sled, a 2005,2 place 550 Trail Touring Deluxe that has now blown 2 engines in 1200 miles.My dealer actually accused me it was partially my fault as I drive it too slow[never been past 50 mph],and in too warm weather[never been above 32*]. I asked him to please show me in my owner's manual where it says I have to do a certain speed and in what temps. to ride.Right--there's nothing there.Anyway,I joined 3 different sled forums only to find out this sled for at least 3 years[-2004-2006] is the GM Corvair [LEMON for you young guys] of the sled circuit.There's been some rumblings of doing a lawsuit against Polaris but nothing yet so just throwing this out. Cracks me up that their motto is ''THE WAY OUT.'' 2 times now my fiancee and I could have died out in Old Forge on the trails if it wasn't for some rescuers who offered a tow back to town.Don't mean to hijack your thread P+P and to show you as I said the other day that I feel for your pain,since I can relate with this BS.


----------



## Squires

09Busa;1237504 said:


> when you get away from the grocery getters and actually own/drive a 2500 or 3500, you can give your 2 cents.......until then keep backing the schlep that ignored GM's rating.......


So now this thread has gotten back to why you drive as opposed to the actual problem?
Nice childish remarks, makes you a big man because you have a 2500 i guess?
Pulling a sea-doo, ski-doo, couple of quads, on trailers or in the pan doesn't warrant the need for a 2500 so why would i bother? so i can gave the great gas mileage and look cool in a big truck, not to mention the bigger payment?
My money could be used best else where, like multiple home ownership, maybe i should push gm to build more **** and "help" the economy, the worse it gets the more homes i can buy Thumbs Up

As for driving them, i might not have one myself, but I'm in the military as my day job, and we have an ever changing fleet of gm ford and dodge, 1500-3500 some gas some diesel, some 2wd some 4x4 some with plows some without, i have driven them all.
But good on you, it really does matter what you drive when factoring in how a business works.........


----------



## dlcs

bow2no1;1237645 said:


> just because they installed doesn't make it a problem....
> they are just preparing the truck for a little more abuse.
> it keeps their ass covered knowing it going to a buyer that is going to abuse it.


Really?? Then why would they install gussets on some trucks with plow prep and not other? I guess some plow prepped trucks are prepared for more use than others. No the gussets were installed to keep the frames from cracking.


----------



## dlcs

bow2no1;1237665 said:


> quit your *****in....take the truck to gm and get the problem solved.
> if they will not fix it....well i guess it's your fault and your problem....end of story....PERIOD!
> 
> what do you want from everyone here?
> you keep going on and on like you think your going to force everyone to agree with you.
> no one here can fix your problem.


What do you
want from everyone here? Everyone to stop posting what you don't want to see? No one is twisting your arm to click on his thread. PERIOD


----------



## lilweeds

PetalsandPines;1235996 said:


> i dont carry rock salt...dont have a salter....only a toro snowblower


There's the reason your broke. No ballast. My rock salt being at the rear of the truck helps level it out. Only having the plow on there makes the area of concern maybe ten times worse.


----------



## PetalsandPines

had 900 pounds of ballast in it....taken out a week ago after frame had the discovered crack....the plow has been off the truck for a week now.....the truck has only been driven to the dealer and a weigh scale since discovering the crack...this is getting very tiring repeating my self post after post after post...but just keep posting people because gm, chevy & the dealer are looking at this post now.....

heres some pics as of this morning


----------



## PetalsandPines

lets see if i can post the inner rail pics on the driver side


----------



## dlcs

lilweeds;1237810 said:


> There's the reason your broke. No ballast. My rock salt being at the rear of the truck helps level it out. Only having the plow on there makes the area of concern maybe ten times worse.


The ballast takes the weight off the front axle, not the frame. The way I have understood it, is that the more weight you have on the back of the truck the more the teeter todder effect happens and arches the frame cauing a crack or so they what us to believe.


----------



## PetalsandPines

*and now finally*

and now finally....the plow in question that is 7 years old

notice how "beat up" it is??


----------



## dlcs

Now thats bad, who was the guythat said it would only costs $200 to weld it up. Looks to me like its going to be an expensive fix. Maybe that will shut up all the whinners who say you were just trolling.


----------



## PetalsandPines

now would anyone like to see the pile of sand bags and the support system for the ballast in the snow....perhaps you would like me to take you on a video tour of Buffalo NY and the 7 foot snow drifts so you can see what snow looks like???


----------



## PetalsandPines

dlcs;1237838 said:


> Now thats bad, who was the guythat said it would only costs $200 to weld it up. Looks to me like its going to be an expensive fix. Maybe that will shut up all the whinners who say you were just trolling.


And the other side is half identical to the drivers side....Guys I'm telling you this just aint right!!! and not an easy fix at all!


----------



## dlcs

Looks liek your crimped tranny cooler lines are leaking too. Hell there is only 900 compliants about those on Fullsizechevy.com. GM needs to listen to its customers are start fixing problems instead of letting them go on and on.


----------



## dlcs

PetalsandPines;1237841 said:


> now would anyone like to see the pile of sand bags and the support system for the ballast in the snow....D


I'm sure the picture ***** would like to see them, otherwise you may still be called a troll.


----------



## PetalsandPines

ANYONE...happen to notice the non weld crack in the first set of picture that starts at the top of the manufacturers oval cutout in the frame? Almost looks to me as a major design flaw that sent the crack spidering in all directions.....but no no.....those 2011's that they are making are "re-designed" for looks


----------



## PetalsandPines

dlcs;1237846 said:


> Looks liek your crimped tranny cooler lines are leaking too. Hell there is only 900 compliants about those on Fullsizechevy.com. GM needs to listen to its customers are start fixing problems instead of letting them go on and on.


oh yes i was told that is out of warranty too.... those were already replaced under warranty at about 20K miles


----------



## lilweeds

It needs to be fixed, yes. You originally didn't mention ballast. How was I to know?

Without you putting it on the scale with the plow and your ballast, I'm still betting on you being over the FAWR. Maybe not, and if so you have a case.

Tranny lines leak, we know it and there are ways to fix it.

The teeter totter effect with the ballast will take the stress off that particular area, putting more stress in the center of the frame.

We can go on and on about this, P&P let us know how you make out.


----------



## dlcs

PetalsandPines;1237852 said:


> ANYONE...happen to notice the non weld crack in the first set of picture that starts at the top of the manufacturers oval cutout in the frame? Almost looks to me as a major design flaw that sent the crack spidering in all directions.....but no no.....those 2011's that they are making are "re-designed" for looks


I'm trying to determine how that crack got there, I mean what broke first. if that crack, the one in the first set, middle row on the left, was first, it could have been from a cold shut in the steel. Interested in what happened first. I can't tell from the pics.


----------



## dlcs

lilweeds;1237863 said:


> Tranny lines leak, we know it and there are ways to fix it.
> 
> .


Oh there are ways to fix everything but my point is GM will not take the proper steps to prevent it in future models. They continue to use the same parts, when the fix is so simple.


----------



## dlcs

BTW...thats a sharp looking truck.


----------



## PetalsandPines

dlcs;1237848 said:


> I'm sure the picture ***** would like to see them, otherwise you may still be called a troll.


Picture 1...All the ballast that i dumped and the frame holding the weight over the rear...laying in the snow...as you can see there is a light coating of snow on it as it was dumped out of the back of the truck

Picture 2 my 1997 truck that is covering for my chevy

picture 3 my cat


----------



## PetalsandPines

One VERDICT is in

FARM FAMILY INSURANCE-
Denying claim due to the fact that the truck has no physical damage and it was not hit by anything and I did not hit anything....as stated by the company...if I hit a pole it would have been covered.......We do not cover mechanical Failure.


----------



## vegaman04

Part 1...... Denied

This is going to be a epic win or an epic fail type thread.

Sub'd for results.....


----------



## 09Busa

Squires;1237751 said:


> So now this thread has gotten back to why you drive as opposed to the actual problem?
> Nice childish remarks, makes you a big man because you have a 2500 i guess?
> Pulling a sea-doo, ski-doo, couple of quads, on trailers or in the pan doesn't warrant the need for a 2500 so why would i bother? so i can gave the great gas mileage and look cool in a big truck, not to mention the bigger payment?
> My money could be used best else where, like multiple home ownership, maybe i should push gm to build more **** and "help" the economy, the worse it gets the more homes i can buy Thumbs Up
> 
> As for driving them, i might not have one myself, but I'm in the military as my day job, and we have an ever changing fleet of gm ford and dodge, 1500-3500 some gas some diesel, some 2wd some 4x4 some with plows some without, i have driven them all.
> But good on you, it really does matter what you drive when factoring in how a business works.........


it matters what I DO for a business............being that you drive a half ton with NO plow.......carry a snowblower or a seadoo......does this mean that you are an expert?
It just means that you, like many others feel that having a truck gives you the go ahead to overload it and ignore weight ratings. One more thing....if GM makes such crap as you have stated, why have you owned 4 of them? Not to mention your current one........BTW......and I mean this sincerely, thank you for your service, I just hope you are not in the position to make any common sense decisions.


----------



## NBI Lawn

After seeing the pictures I would highly recommend just paying to have it welded and gusseted in the event GM also denies your claim. You don't want to damage anything any further. It looks to be an easy fix to be actually. All the seams look like they will go right back together without much issue. I wouldn't drive it at all! 
Just spend the $200-$500 and weld it up. If GM actually replaces it, great. The odds are against you that they will so why cause more damage. You have pictures and documentation you need to prove it was actually broken. Fix it and put it back to work. Go to GM forums and see how others have fixed them and go from there.


----------



## PetalsandPines

i know that last comment wasnt directed at me...but in my case I only bought another gm because they were the only one that would take the 04 off my hands and not jam me up the ass in refinancing an old loan....They also had 0% financing incentives......Guess there was a reason....they were hurting ....i wanted an 07 f-350 same set up but i couldnt get a good trade in and the rates were high and the fords were way more expensive.


----------



## PetalsandPines

GM has contacted me regarding this case and is "investigating" the matter....They said that if for a reason gm cant cover it they can provide me incentives for a new vehicle.......too bad the economy destroyed my retail location the last couple years and my credit rating wont allow me to finance now


----------



## cwby_ram

PetalsandPines;1237973 said:


> GM has contacted me regarding this case and is "investigating" the matter....They said that if for a reason gm cant cover it they can provide me incentives for a new vehicle.......too bad the economy destroyed my retail location the last couple years and my credit rating wont allow me to finance now


That doesn't sound too promising, but still got my fingers crossed for ya!


----------



## salvage101

next time get urself a ford!


----------



## Squires

09Busa;1237949 said:


> it matters what I DO for a business............being that you drive a half ton with NO plow.......carry a snowblower or a seadoo......does this mean that you are an expert?
> It just means that you, like many others feel that having a truck gives you the go ahead to overload it and ignore weight ratings. One more thing....if GM makes such crap as you have stated, why have you owned 4 of them? Not to mention your current one........BTW......and I mean this sincerely, thank you for your service, I just hope you are not in the position to make any common sense decisions.


Who said I'm overloading my truck? It is rated to tow 9600lbs that's allot of sleds on a pretty big trailer before I'm over that number, is there a plow on it? Nope, don't need one, snow blower suites me just fine for now, if i need one it'll be on a larger truck designed for one. Not once did i say that i with great pride drive around over weight, and again I'm not on here about this specific situation, I'm just commenting on the principle here, that a company so large as gm can have an ongoing problem for so long and do nothing to help the people who without them they wouldn't even be in business.

Why do i have another one? because i personally have never had any "major" trouble with mine, my last one was an 07 lease and when the lease was up it had 80,000 trouble free km's on it, the only thing ever done was front pads, i might have kept it if it hadn't been wrecked in a hit and run while Christmas shopping, it got fixed but the paint job would never be the same, that and it was cheaper to buy a brand new one than to pay out the ridiculous residual value placed on a 3yo truck.

I'm an Air traffic controller now......i guess that takes a bit of common sense.
Why is it you would say i lack common sense based on my posts on this topic?
Not here to bash or pick a fight either just curious


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

PetalsandPines;1237890 said:


> One VERDICT is in
> 
> FARM FAMILY INSURANCE-
> Denying claim due to the fact that the truck has no physical damage and it was not hit by anything and I did not hit anything....as stated by the company...if I hit a pole it would have been covered.......We do not cover mechanical Failure.


Should have known that was coming.


----------



## dlcs

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1238018 said:


> Should have known that was coming.


Actually its more ammo for his case against GM, more than likely an adjuster came out and determined there was no impact or collision. So now GM cannot say that the truck was invlved in any sort of accident.


----------



## PetalsandPines

*Good day to go to the Auto Show to check now the new TRUCKS*

Hope I can find a spot in front


----------



## brianbrich1

Seeing those cracks sure makes me want to double check my frames even with the gussets on Even with this frame problem chevy has had I still bought a new 11 2500 and if it pushes as good and strong as my other two chevies it will be a happy purchase. No plow till 2011/12 season for it


----------



## PetalsandPines

dlcs;1238024 said:


> Actually its more ammo for his case against GM, more than likely an adjuster came out and determined there was no impact or collision. So now GM cannot say that the truck was invlved in any sort of accident.


Funny thing is the adjuster said the dump body was allocated 3 hours to change over and was expensing $46 an hour for it....Damn if i could find some to change it over for $150 i would have them paint it too


----------



## wizardsr

Dang, that's a lot worse than my Ford was. I still think a good frame shop can fix you up and have the truck back on the road, but it isn't going to be a couple hundred $'s like mine was...

2 observations...

It looks like it's been riding the bumpstops. Wonder how much that affected the cracking? I'm no engineer, so I don't know how much affect that had. Your blizzard dealer should have recommended turning up the torsion bars and timbrens, I'll bet the truck rode like crap with the plow on...

Second, look at all the rust in the cracks, this has been forming over time, it didn't "just happen", it's been happening, but apparently wasn't noticed until it broke completely all the way through. Not that it makes any difference at this point... Had you been aware of the potential of this happening, I'm betting it would have been caught a lot sooner, and would have been a much less expensive fix. Again, not pointing fingers, it just is what it is.

Too bad the claim's already been filed with insurance. If it hadn't, go bump a pole in the yard and let them pay for it LOL.


----------



## BigLou80

NBI Lawn;1237965 said:


> After seeing the pictures I would highly recommend just paying to have it welded and gusseted in the event GM also denies your claim. You don't want to damage anything any further. It looks to be an easy fix to be actually. All the seams look like they will go right back together without much issue. I wouldn't drive it at all!
> Just spend the $200-$500 and weld it up. If GM actually replaces it, great. The odds are against you that they will so why cause more damage. You have pictures and documentation you need to prove it was actually broken. Fix it and put it back to work. Go to GM forums and see how others have fixed them and go from there.


Yup!

Its a business decision some times the go against your morals/pride/whatever but you need to do what makes the most sense and that's fixing the truck and getting back out there. For all the energy and time expensed here how much closer would you be to having a fixed truck ?

Im not saying GM is right when in fact I think the exact opposite however arguing on the internet and chasing down GM and your insurance company is not nearly as productive as just fixing the F'ing truck and going back to work.


----------



## dlcs

wizardsr;1238628 said:


> Dang, that's a lot worse than my Ford was. I still think a good frame shop can fix you up and have the truck back on the road, but it isn't going to be a couple hundred $'s like mine was...
> 
> 2 observations...
> 
> It looks like it's been riding the bumpstops. Wonder how much that affected the cracking? I'm no engineer, so I don't know how much affect that had. Your blizzard dealer should have recommended turning up the torsion bars and timbrens, I'll bet the truck rode like crap with the plow on...
> 
> Second, look at all the rust in the cracks, this has been forming over time, it didn't "just happen", it's been happening, but apparently wasn't noticed until it broke completely all the way through. Not that it makes any difference at this point... Had you been aware of the potential of this happening, I'm betting it would have been caught a lot sooner, and would have been a much less expensive fix. Again, not pointing fingers, it just is what it is.
> 
> Too bad the claim's already been filed with insurance. If it hadn't, go bump a pole in the yard and let them pay for it LOL.


Ok now I'm thinking about the whle bump stop idea. Mine rides on the bumpo stops a little when the plow is on but it doesn't ride like crap. One thing is my bump stops are different than the ones pictured. My truck is a 07 NBS 2500hd but its supposedly the same frame.


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

dlcs;1238723 said:


> Ok now I'm thinking about the whle bump stop idea. Mine rides on the bumpo stops a little when the plow is on but it doesn't ride like crap. One thing is my bump stops are different than the ones pictured. My truck is a 07 NBS 2500hd but its supposedly the same frame.


It's because he has Timbrens on his.

Are you actually driving the truck? You supposedly drove it 46 miles to the scale. Now you are going to drive it to the auto show? That is stupid to knowingly drive it, you are opening yourself up to HUGE liability. No different than driving it if you knew it didn't have brakes.

You are going to bring it to the show with the banner on it? Why is it a lemon? Have you had the frame brake numerous times? Why would you do that if GM hasn't denied the claim yet? Couldn't that be considered slander? If you saved the money from having the banners made you could probably have a good chunk of the welding done


----------



## mossman381

I have not read all the posts in this thread, but there is a guy called tripleL that has a rear plow and a boss V-plow on his 04 chevy 3500 duramax. He also has a salter in the back. He has to be testing the limits of the frame. He claims to have no problems.


----------



## the new boss 92

if you dont plow hard, why does the side step apear to be bent upwards as if it was run up a snow bank at mock 2?


----------



## wizardsr

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1238755 said:


> It's because he has Timbrens on his.


Those are timbrens??? They don't look like the timbrens I've had on my Fords...


----------



## RichG53

I would like to see PICTURES ! ! ! ! ! ! ! 

Oh!!! Excuse me I finally found where you posted (hid) them.....

Those cracks look to have been there awhile....Only getting worse after continuing to plowing...

I have a hard time understanding why so many here don't do an under truck inspection periodically .. 

Dose any one do their own oil changes or greasing ???

If so, you would notice things like this ..(starting to happen)..

Good luck with your claim...That frame is in bad shape....


----------



## PetalsandPines

the new boss 92;1238793 said:


> if you dont plow hard, why does the side step apear to be bent upwards as if it was run up a snow bank at mock 2?


Oh you"re a genius....I have 4 large boulders at the front of my driveway which is shaped as a U. When you come out of my driveway and make a sharp turn to get out in deep snow.....occasionally one can make mistake and go over part of it. Nice try though:waving:


----------



## PetalsandPines

RichG53;1238851 said:


> I would like to see PICTURES ! ! ! ! ! ! !
> 
> Oh!!! Excuse me I finally found where you posted (hid) them.....
> 
> Those cracks look to have been there awhile....Only getting worse after continuing to plowing...
> 
> I have a hard time understanding why so many here don't do an under truck inspection periodically ..
> 
> Dose any one do their own oil changes or greasing ???
> 
> If so, you would notice things like this ..(starting to happen)..
> 
> Good luck with your claim...That frame is in bad shape....


They havent been there for awhile..... discovered crack in late January and this thing just blew right up. They use alot and i mean alot of salt in western NY..in late january you could see the fresh metal from the frame splitting open and now the crack is covered in rust.


----------



## PetalsandPines

Honestly.....I dont care how long that truck sits there..I'll suck it up and plow with my old truck.....i really dont care at this point about the chevy.....There is a next plan of action that can't be discussed on here....so just keep throwing daggers at me boys...doesnt bother me at all. But if GM doesnt cover it, wait to see what happens.....Daggers, splitting hairs.....

Hey, if any of you that keep defending gm are on here actually work for gm...say hello to detroit...because they are monitoring this thread:waving: :waving:


----------



## Mxrider069

I will back him up and the salt, my cutting edge will have rust on it 6 hours after I'm done plowing. You can litterly watch bare metal rust around here.


----------



## NBI Lawn

PetalsandPines;1238881 said:


> Honestly.....I dont care how long that truck sits there..I'll suck it up and plow with my old truck.....i really dont care at this point about the chevy.....There is a next plan of action that can't be discussed on here....so just keep throwing daggers at me boys...doesnt bother me at all. But if GM doesnt cover it, wait to see what happens.....Daggers, splitting hairs.....
> 
> Hey, if any of you that keep defending gm are on here actually work for gm...say hello to detroit...because they are monitoring this thread:waving: :waving:


Such it up and just fix it. Your truck isnt under a warranty anymore...unless you purchased a bumper to bumper extended one. It is hard to call it a lemon when it is out of warranty and its the first time you experienced the problem. 
The "Plan of action" I would assume is trying to find some paddles because you are up **** creek.

Other than you saying "I did'nt ask for this" what is your case against GM with YOUR truck? This doesn't include the other ones you have heard about.

Answer a few questions:
1) Is it currently under a factory warranty?
2) Was the truck overweight (ballast weight cant be proven so isn't valid)
3) Do you feel falsely calling your truck a lemon will help your case?

Oh and I don't work for GM and I *HIGHLY *doubt GM cares enough about this to monitor Plowsite. Let it go, put your pride aside and fix your truck. You would rather have your truck just sit there so you can make a feeble attempt at making a stand against GM? You are not going to affect any sales, your attorney will not be able to handle GM's legal department, you are just hurting yourself at this point and giving a few people some good laughs.

Just for fun why dont you put it up for sale "as is" on some forums and just see what happens. You will have two kinds of answers to a for sale thread... 1) Oh thats way too much money for a broken truck. 2) That is an easy fix where can I come see it.

Also, you have said you continue to drive it full well knowing that the frame is broken. Please do not do that any more.


----------



## dlcs

the new boss 92;1238793 said:


> if you dont plow hard, why does the side step apear to be bent upwards as if it was run up a snow bank at mock 2?


You have never hit anything plowing? I did this last storm, high centered over a ice pile in a driveway and pushed up the passenger side of the box. Would you say I'm rough on my equipment? The blizzard we had a couple weeks ago, was rough on equipment, thngs broke than normally wouldn't or normally would not have happened. keep in mind he gets snow like we just has very often. **** happens doesn't mean you abuse your equipment.


----------



## dlcs

NBI Lawn;1238971 said:


> Also, you have said you continue to drive it full well knowing that the frame is broken. Please do not do that any more.


Where does he say that? You continue to say this but I see no proof other than the truck moved on his property from his flower shed to by the road.


----------



## dlcs

NBI Lawn;1238971 said:


> Oh and I don't work for GM and I *HIGHLY *doubt GM cares enough about this to monitor Plowsite. Let it go, put your pride aside and fix your truck. You would rather have your truck just sit there so you can make a feeble attempt at making a stand against GM? You are not going to affect any sales, your attorney will not be able to handle GM's legal department, you are just hurting yourself at this point and giving a few people some good laughs.
> 
> .


Yes GM monitors this site, they callled me on my comments that I made about my failed transmission this summer and the run around that they gave me.


----------



## dlcs

NBI Lawn;1238971Other than you saying "I did'nt ask for this" what is your case against GM with YOUR truck? This doesn't include the other ones you have heard about.
.[/QUOTE said:


> This is how class acton lawsuits start. Frames are not suppose to break even after the vehicle is out of warranty. There is so many cases of this problem with GM trucks that it needs attention. They know that they have a problem becasue they have tried to correct it but do nothing for the ones who have dealt with over the last how many years?


----------



## dlcs

Mxrider069;1238890 said:


> I will back him up and the salt, my cutting edge will have rust on it 6 hours after I'm done plowing. You can litterly watch bare metal rust around here.


You can here in Illinois too. I think anyone with common sense know this.


----------



## cwby_ram

dlcs;1239005 said:


> This is how class acton lawsuits start. *Frames are not suppose to break even after the vehicle is out of warranty*. There is so many cases of this problem with GM trucks that it needs attention. They know that they have a problem becasue they have tried to correct it but do nothing for the ones who have dealt with over the last how many years?


I'm not trying to take sides. I feel for this guy, but we keep getting away from the facts.
Frames aren't supposed to break, but they're not supposed to be overloaded either.


----------



## dlcs

cwby_ram;1239018 said:


> I'm not trying to take sides. I feel for this guy, but we keep getting away from the facts.
> Frames aren't supposed to break, but they're not supposed to be overloaded either.


If his was the only one that broke, then yes maybe. BUT his is not the only one that broke. There is so many that have broke some with plows on, some without. Some with diesels, some with gassers. Some with extended cabs, some regular cabs. You see its all different configurations and they are not all overloaded. I see it as a possible design flaw rather than a weight flaw. maybe thats why GM dropped the iron scabs back in 2002 because they didn't help and it jst raised the cost of the frames. I want answers other than the Plowsite engineers telling him to suck it up and just weld it.


----------



## cwby_ram

dlcs;1239023 said:


> If his was the only one that broke, then yes maybe. BUT his is not the only one that broke. There is so many that have broke some with plows on, some without. Some with diesels, some with gassers. Some with extended cabs, some regular cabs. You see its all different configurations and they are not all overloaded. I see it as a possible design flaw rather than a weight flaw. maybe thats why GM dropped the iron scabs back in 2002 because they didn't help and it jst raised the cost of the frames. I want answers other than the Plowsite engineers telling him to suck it up and just weld it.


I hear ya, I agree. Haven't had it happen to me yet. (I'll be gussetting mine before it gets a plow) I'm hoping for the best outcome for P&P and everyone else. I just think it's gonna be a hard case, especially given his circumstances. There probably is a design flaw, but as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, there are a lot more that haven't had issues. Again, I hope he gets the resolution he's looking for, despite some of his seemingly misdirected, angry comments. In this business, equipment is subjected to a lot of strain at times, and things break. In an ideal world, everyone takes responsibility for what they're responsible for, manufacturers stand behind what they produce, operators stand behind their work, and everything goes just like it's supposed to on paper. Props to be P&P for trying to do something about it.


----------



## lilweeds

As pointed out earlier there are very few of these that have broken. A search on forums might turn up a dozen or so. Your still looking at less then 1% of all the trucks made from 01-10 if you include every frame that has broken. Other things people haven't mentioned are Federal crash standards which may be the reason the gussets were taken out (I really don't know this, but it is a possibility). The plow mounts aren't what they used to be either. 

And the new frame means nothing in this. GM had a very low FAWR since 01, they have finally decided that they needed to step up and compete with the other 2.

Again I wish P&P well, but I highly doubt anything will come of his actions.


----------



## outlaw66

I have fixed, plated, gusseted many, many of these.... should they break? no, do they, yes! Ive seen them break with straight blades, but not as much as blizzard's. they are heavy! they are a good plow, but are heavy! IMO if you continue to drive or plow, gm is just going to get out of it by saying you should do more inspections and it would not have gotten this bad, its just what they do. and be sure they will weigh the front axle and see for sure how much its over!

hey im ok with being over fawr, but on my s-10 with a 7'6" western unimount, I have the frame plated, and if it brakes, it brakes, ill fix it!

As far as getting some kind of a recall going, best of luck to you, even with a plow prep pkg. yoour still over what they call safe. heck, you shoud see some of the hondas im getting in right now for the frame rot recall!! wow!!


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## RBRONKEMA GHTFD

PetalsandPines;1238084 said:


> Hope I can find a spot in front


That looks good for business. I'd atleast cover the name up so no one knows what companies truck that is.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

dlcs;1238994 said:


> Where does he say that? You continue to say this but I see no proof other than the truck moved on his property from his flower shed to by the road.


He said he did, to the CERTIFIED scale 23 miles away.

Don't get me wrong I'd be pi$$ed if any of my frames broke and I'd have the dealer look at it and see if they would do anything. But the way he came off on here he was ready to sue someone from the get go.

I would be real interested to know how many frames have actually broken. Not my friends brothers cousins friend knew someone, but actual hands on broken frames with pictures.

GM sold 618,257 Silverados and 208,243 Sierras in 2007. That's 826,500 trucks in just the US. If they had a 1/2% failure rate that would be 4,132 trucks every year. There is no way they have that many failures that would mean over half of the dealers across the country (about 7000 dealers in 2008) would have a broken frame issue every year. I'd be willing to bet it's more like .01 of 1% or 82 a year maybe


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## PetalsandPines

The truck is not being driven..it is at the corner of my parking lot that gets a LOT of traffic.......I drove it to the scale unladen...no weight at all because everyone was going ape over the weight...so way to set me up to put me down  and actually it drove really nice....in fact the last 3 inches of frame on one side of the truck is probably equivalent to a 1500 frame Thumbs Up But anyways...its just sitting there, not being driven and waiting from GM...There WILL be a 3rd leg to this story if GM doesnt take care of it....ummm the "Ace in The Hole", but we will see what happens first...Trust me boys...there IS an ace in the hole and it will backfire on GM. No pun intended


----------



## PetalsandPines

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1239076 said:


> He said he did, to the CERTIFIED scale 23 miles away.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I'd be pi$$ed if any of my frames broke and I'd have the dealer look at it and see if they would do anything. But the way he came off on here he was ready to sue someone from the get go.
> 
> I would be real interested to know how many frames have actually broken. Not my friends brothers cousins friend knew someone, but actual hands on broken frames with pictures.
> 
> GM sold 618,257 Silverados and 208,243 Sierras in 2007. That's 826,500 trucks in just the US. If they had a 1/2% failure rate that would be 4,132 trucks every year. There is no way they have that many failures that would mean over half of the dealers across the country (about 7000 dealers in 2008) would have a broken frame issue every year. I'd be willing to bet it's more like .01 of 1% or 82 a year maybe


Good theory...but how many of these are the exact year and model and engine in a lake effect snow zone???


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

My point is, with that small of a failure rate GM wouldn't really care. Waiting for this ACE in the hole, the only way I could see you having anything is if the dealership had the plow installed before you bought the truck. Then you would want a certified weight with the plow ON the truck to show it is at least 510lbs over FAWR. If that's not the case then you will want to try and get YOUR numbers to slide. Lake effect snow zone? Who cares. The numbers might be more percentage wise but still minimal. You would be better not singling your truck out you would be better in the big number. How many Cab and Chassis are sold with a diesel that never see a plow "in a snow zone"?


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## djagusch

If it was overloaded it was overloaded. Plain and simple. Its out of gms control. They limit speed of trucks due to tire speed ratings, they control that. Unfortantely the can't stop people from overloading vehicles. If people keep trying to sue pretty soon vehicles won't start without belts buckled, breathelizers etc.

People need to learn to be accountable for their actions. That is what his problem is about. Only company that could be accountable is the installer or plow mfg if they said it was safe. 

Also your not close to actually weight limit a 950lb plow 5ft in front of the axle is more like 1350lbs on the actually front axle. The op needs to get a clue.


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## djagusch

So what happens if they replace the frame with the same design? Are they just giving you another defective frame? That is the defect your claiming right? Why would you accept the some defect again?


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## watatrp

djagusch;1239189 said:


> So what happens if they replace the frame with the same design? Are they just giving you another defective frame? That is the defect your claiming right? Why would you accept the some defect again?


Interesting comment. I have to believe that GM has already asked this question also. Off subject a little but with all the reading that I have done on this, I have never heard of a problem with the frames that have the gusset plates installed. This may be the key to this whole problem. I still think the most incriminating thing that GM has done is to install the plates at the factory. Why would they reinforce the frame at the exact same spot that they are cracking at? They know there is a problem and then just look the other way when someone brings it to their attention. I can't even speculate how this will end. My guess is that GM will do as little as it possibly can and hope that all those faulty frames will just cycle thru their lifespans and disappear.


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## 09Busa

dlcs;1238994 said:


> Where does he say that? You continue to say this but I see no proof other than the truck moved on his property from his flower shed to by the road.


Why don't yo put you adoration for P&P aside for a moment.....open your eyes and read, if you can comprehend. I did not fault te op for trying to go at GM. I faulted him for not caring about this issue until it happened to him and then coming on here screaming..."help me!...I need pics and testimonials. He overloaded a notoriouslt weak IFS. He knows it and so do you. You just happen to have an ax to grind with GM because of your tranny. Why don't you and him go stand outside of GM's headquarters and save the space on here for guys that stand on their own two feet. Roll the dice and you might crap out. 
By the way, tell your pal Chairman Lutz isnt scared of him and his pansy business.......LMAO!


----------



## djagusch

watatrp;1239207 said:


> Interesting comment. I have to believe that GM has already asked this question also. Off subject a little but with all the reading that I have done on this, I have never heard of a problem with the frames that have the gusset plates installed. This may be the key to this whole problem. I still think the most incriminating thing that GM has done is to install the plates at the factory. Why would they reinforce the frame at the exact same spot that they are cracking at? They know there is a problem and then just look the other way when someone brings it to their attention. I can't even speculate how this will end. My guess is that GM will do as little as it possibly can and hope that all those faulty frames will just cycle thru their lifespans and disappear.


I worked at a upfitter (conversion vans/lift trucks) when the 1500hd crew cabs came out they had a tsb about wheels and weight limits on the front end more than the normal bs that comes from the factory. My guess is this is when the gussets happen for a while after testing and such they found it wasn't needed? Maybe? Many reasons to see line changes and happens often.

On another note the blizzard power match when plugging in his truck doesn't show much. They even have a ? Under ballasts. Guessing since it was shipped as a uncomplete vehicle as a chassis cab gm has even less liability. The dealer and upfitter putting on the dump changes the vehicle, then the customers used plow was installed guessing with a used mount and wiring. Then it was overloaded and finally the framed cracked. Gm is along way from being at fault on this one.


----------



## dlcs

09Busa;1239241 said:


> Why don't yo put you adoration for P&P aside for a moment.....open your eyes and read, if you can comprehend. I did not fault te op for trying to go at GM. I faulted him for not caring about this issue until it happened to him and then coming on here screaming..."help me!...I need pics and testimonials. He overloaded a notoriouslt weak IFS. He knows it and so do you. You just happen to have an ax to grind with GM because of your tranny. Why don't you and him go stand outside of GM's headquarters and save the space on here for guys that stand on their own two feet. Roll the dice and you might crap out.
> By the way, tell your pal Chairman Lutz isnt scared of him and his pansy business.......LMAO!


No no ax to grind. Truck is fixed and I got my trannsmission rebuilt, my problem was it took over 2 weeks for them to find the part. If you can read and comprehend.


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## plowking35

Here is what P and P has going for him. In 07 GM started a 5 yr 100000 mile drivetrain warranty. They may consider the frame drivetrain? He has the VYU plow prep.
Ummm thats about it. If he had a 8' straight plowing kicking around and didnt post all over the internent what plow he was running on the truck then he would be in better shape.
looks like he may also be able to claim ignorance and look to go after the plow installer for putting to "heavy" of a plow on the truck.
Other than that its a crap shoot as to what GM will decide.
Dino


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## plowking35

If they dont allow for a new frame the correct way to repair would be to remove the nose and engine and then get to repairing.
In all even doing that it would be allot less money than throwing a new frame under it.
I wonder if they had metal issues from welding all that bracketry in a relatively small area.
Looks like the metal suffered from fatique or was over hardened.
All I know is this, the repair will be allot less than the cost of attorneys, unless one takes it on contingency


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## dlcs

My question is why does this happen on gassers with lightweight plows too?


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## plowking35

Well if its a steel heat treatment issue it could happen to any truck chassis combo. I am also curious as to why the wheel bearing assemblies are not failing before the frames. They also are notoriously weak
Dino


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## Dewey

All BS aside P n P I wish you all the luck.... I'm with you on this.... I've had issues with my frame for a few years...... I only wish I knew about the gussets..... I hope you get what ever settlment your looking for.... If it comes to a recall make sure I find out...!!!! GOOD LUCK !!! ussmileyflag


----------



## pmorrissette

plowking35;1239318 said:


> In 07 GM started a 5 yr 100000 mile drivetrain warranty. They may consider the frame drivetrain?


In Canada, the frame rails are not covered under the powertrain warranty, so I strongly suspect the same applies to USA. Frame is covered under basic warranty for 36 months or 60000 kilometers (36000 miles).


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## NBI Lawn

dlcs;1238994 said:


> Where does he say that? You continue to say this but I see no proof other than the truck moved on his property from his flower shed to by the road.


Are the scales coming to him? Is the dealer coming to him? Also you say I "continue" to say that... where?


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## NBI Lawn

dlcs;1239336 said:


> My question is why does this happen on gassers with lightweight plows too?


That doesnt really matter in this case at all as this is a Diesel with a "heavy" plow.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

I have an 07' Classic and was told the 5/100,000 only applies to NBS


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## NBI Lawn

dlcs;1238999 said:


> Yes GM monitors this site, they callled me on my comments that I made about my failed transmission this summer and the run around that they gave me.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, BS. They called you on the "report card" you gave the dealership. Do you have any idea how many automotive and brand specific forums there are that they would have to be monitoring if that were the case. If GM was monitoring this thread someone from GM would have chimed in saying something along the lines of "we are looking into this particular case and please be patient while we do so" or something along those lines.


----------



## NBI Lawn

PetalsandPines;1239113 said:


> Good theory...but how many of these are the exact year and model and engine in a *lake effect snow zone*???


Why does that matter?


----------



## PetalsandPines

All i am asking for is a new frame, Gm to cover the cost of the special towing package 0n the back of the frame, the transfer over of the Dump Body....THE TRANSFER OVER OF THE PLOW FRAME & wiring and harnesses. I dont want monetary damages..i dont want a free truck...i dont want a new chevy....Once This is replaced i will have gussets installed and that is it. Period....Any one of you that had a newer truck would feel the same way...stop bashing me and splitting hairs....Lord knows that if a little guy like me caused a massive recall of these frames...every single one of you....no matter how many miles you have on your truck would be lining up for a new frame because you COULD. When it happens to you...You'll understand. And to weld it up....what if something down the road happens *(not plowing related) I hit a pothole or something I am loaded to the max GVW and i'm doing 65 on the highway and the frame cracks at that weld and I am killed....What happens then....you guys gonna say it was overloaded then? What happens if it breaks along the welds...who is responsible now? Tell me WHO????


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## PetalsandPines

not that this is related...but how about the overthrow of the Government in Egypt? If you dont think thats heading our direction you are gravely wrong. It's small business like mine across the country that are struggling in this economy and being dealt a line of BS from this administration...the bailouts etc.....How many of you guys that own small business' have the credit line you had 5 years ago???? Hmmm????


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## PetalsandPines

plowking35;1239344 said:


> Well if its a steel heat treatment issue it could happen to any truck chassis combo. I am also curious as to why the wheel bearing assemblies are not failing before the frames. They also are notoriously weak
> Dino


MIne has failed twice....both in the winter and summer


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

PetalsandPines;1239424 said:


> MIne has failed twice....both in the winter and summer


The hub bearings? Ya so I did the pass side on the 06' at 41K and just did the driver side a month ago at 68K and now it needs an idler arm oh well. It had 4 or 5 sets of tranny cooler lines (along with the 07') Heck the 07' was towed into the dealer 5 times in the first 12K it would just shut off and not restart


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## NBI Lawn

Just a few fun facts and inconsistencies.



PetalsandPines;1234293 said:


> There is another thing that seems to contribute to the front end weight issue with certain plows...We had a monster storm in December...in which many of the municipal plow trucks just got caught way off guard....It was 41 inches in 24 hours of the heaviest wettest snow I have ever seen....yet the ground was not frozen.....what happened was the street crews were to late to respond and incredible ice ruts developed in the WNY area....Even if you were going 5 miles an hour down these streets you would hit these ruts and bam your front end would drop and jump up along with the plow....I cant even begin to tell you how nervous that made me.* The blizzards especially would jump up and down and just slam on the front end of the truck*.....How does one account for or measure the sheer weight and gravity of this occuring down all the roads.....Have you ever gone over a train crossing and have the truck bottom out on the other side of it and just cringe knowing "that cant be good for the truck" now imagine adding a 1000 lb plow to the equation.....Maybe its not just about front end tolerances but also the condition of roads when you are out plowing in the depths of a major winter storm.....just a thought?


*Abnormal use/abuse IMO. No you didn't ask for that either though*


PetalsandPines;1235964 said:


> so you're essentially saying if i put 950 lbs of ballast in the back...the front end would lift up and be lighter?


Trying to figure out how much weight you need to be within spec


 PetalsandPines;1235996 said:


> i dont carry rock salt...dont have a salter....only a toro snowblower


No mention of ballast, just a snow blower in back



PetalsandPines;1236646 said:


> Please for the sake of pissing again....tell me how I am overloaded...when i took the truck to the certified scales yesterday and removed the *800 lbs of ballast* behind the back axle and the plow itself....Theoretically by putting the ballast back in the truck i would be taking about two hundred pounds of pressure off the front axle weight. When re-installed i am well below the 12k rating gvw and below the 4800 lb front axle weight...


Now it has 800lbs of ballast



PetalsandPines;1236985 said:


> *I have been running 1000 lbs of ballast *behind rear axle fully secured...so now how does the weight transfer affect the front...im not being combative at all...now i am just curious...unfortunately the closest CAT *scale is 23 miles away*....i would love to put the plow on, the ballast in the back and get the real numbers....but i know doing that now would be in the least very hazardous if not deadly


Now it has 1000lbs of ballast and drove it 46 miles.


PetalsandPines;1237821 said:


> *had 900 pounds of ballast *in it....taken out a week ago after frame had the discovered crack....the plow has been off the truck for a week now.....the truck has only been driven to the dealer and a weigh scale since discovering the crack...this is getting very tiring repeating my self post after post after post...but just keep posting people because gm, chevy & the dealer are looking at this post now.....


Now it has 900lbs of ballast. Which is it? Man up, be honest and just fix it yourself. The information that you have said in your own words is enough proof that GM owes you nothing. You were scared driving it in such bad conditions with the plow haning off the front and now you cant decide how much weight, if any you carry in it.


----------



## NBI Lawn

You say....


dlcs;1238994 said:


> Where does he say that? You continue to say this but *I see no proof other than the truck moved* on his property from his flower shed to by the road.


He said


PetalsandPines;1237821 said:


> had 900 pounds of ballast in it....taken out a week ago after frame had the discovered crack....the plow has been off the truck for a week now.....*the truck has only been driven to the dealer and a weigh scale since discovering the crack*...this is getting very tiring repeating my self post after post after post...but just keep posting people because gm, chevy & the dealer are looking at this post now.....


Also in post 126 he said the drive to the scales was 23 miles each way. He also says he wants to drive it to the auto show and park it out front in post 75. Thats why asked him to not drive it anymore.


----------



## NBI Lawn

PetalsandPines;1239409 said:


> All i am asking for is a new frame, Gm to cover the cost of the special towing package 0n the back of the frame, the transfer over of the Dump Body....THE TRANSFER OVER OF THE PLOW FRAME & wiring and harnesses. I dont want monetary damages..i dont want a free truck...i dont want a new chevy....Once This is replaced i will have gussets installed and that is it. Period....Any one of you that had a newer truck would feel the same way...stop bashing me and splitting hairs....Lord knows that if a little guy like me caused a massive recall of these frames...every single one of you....no matter how many miles you have on your truck would be lining up for a new frame because you COULD. When it happens to you...You'll understand. And to weld it up....what if something down the road happens *(not plowing related) I hit a pothole or something I am loaded to the max GVW and i'm doing 65 on the highway and the frame cracks at that weld and I am killed....What happens then....you guys gonna say it was overloaded then? What happens if it breaks along the welds...who is responsible now? Tell me WHO????


You are asking GM to do something they are no longer liable to do. This is now your issue. Please take a deep breath and take the blame.

Also, You say you paid $40,000 for it and got zero percent financing yet you still owe $19,000 on it (I can find where he said that dlcs if you would like)? Did GM do a 8 year loan on it? With a truck payment of roughly $437/mo (if you put nothing down) you should have plenty of spare coil laying around for repares.


----------



## brianbrich1

This has sure turned into a one sided bashing party.....Best of luck with the outcome on the frame.... like I said earlier I have multiply chevies that i put gussets on and just recentely got a 2011... I will probably always have chevies not sure why just seems to be the trucks i have bought (10) all of which(except 1) have made me happy and money.. Hope it gets resolved but iam sure you will no longer buy gm products for sure if that frame dosent get fixed.....For the rest of the finger pointers enough is enough You cant teach anything to a dead horse even if you keep kicking itAs for you Petals stop posting responses and replies here to every statement...Only post updates on the frame getting fixed or not...everything else is just fuel to this fire of a thread that is starting to look like my kids fighting over the last popsicle.....


----------



## PetalsandPines

*Thank you and Good Luck everyone!*

Yep this is getting tiring too... I'll just let you guys know what happens. Ok? Enjoy the rest of the winter looks like its gonna warm up finally. Tried to have a discussion on here but some people want to play CSI....Listen...I dont hide my identity...i really dont know what a lot of you guys do for a living...is this your main business? If its a side job...If you just like chevy trucks? If you just plow your own driveway? Or if you just like busting balls?
I'm in West Seneca NY....2 miles west of Buffalo...Feel free to call me, Text Me, Email Me, Come on over we'll go for a beer...I have nothing to hide....No axe to grind....Just would expect a little more from a truck of this fortitude...Hell I even had fun today...with the old Ford....Mach 2 down driveways and getting punked off by the piles the chevy / blizzard combo made....Yep the old ford just bounced off them. Talk about a truck that can take abuse....And why wouldnt I? Its14 years old and have never had a structural problem with it...oh yes...i would be lying if I said that.....my buddy covered for me about ten years ago with that truck and came in at about 15mph straight up the driveway...however he missed the driveway completely and hit the curb....Cracked the ears off the plow mount and the old meyer was just hanging off the truck by its chain....but the frame of the truck is still SOLID after all those years of abuseThumbs Up

MY chevy....i could never do that because they sit too low to the ground, especially when you hit the little lip on the aprons.....My workers say I drive and plow like a granny. But why should i have to do mach2 in the chevy...that thing will move my ford, the pile that the ford made and the original pile the chevy made...from a standing position...but hey....thats life..
I DONT WISH THIS ON ANYONE IN THIS FORUM. AND I HOPE THIS IS JUST AN ISOLATED CASE. but whatever happens good luck with the rest of the winter.
Petals and Pines Garden Center
West Seneca NY ussmileyflag


----------



## PetalsandPines

NBI Lawn;1239517 said:


> You are asking GM to do something they are no longer liable to do. This is now your issue. Please take a deep breath and take the blame.
> 
> Also, You say you paid $40,000 for it and got zero percent financing yet you still owe $19,000 on it (I can find where he said that dlcs if you would like)? Did GM do a 8 year loan on it? With a truck payment of roughly $437/mo (if you put nothing down) you should have plenty of spare coil laying around for repares.


Oh and for the ugly side of this story....I have been in a chapter 13 bankruptcy and going through a divorce....Just didnt want to bring this up in a forum like this...That is why the truck is not paid for yet (its a 60 month loan) loan payment was $700 month...So please as a man to other men...Stop the bashing...If I lose the truck I wont be able to buy a new one...Thanks for your understanding


----------



## djagusch

dlcs;1239336 said:


> My question is why does this happen on gassers with lightweight plows too?


Read about static and dynamic forces in physics. Look at a plow with 5ft of leverage and bounce it, especially with a chain. The weight of the plow could be 4 times the weight with a decent bounce.


----------



## dlcs

NBI Lawn;1239398 said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, BS. They called you on the "report card" you gave the dealership. Do you have any idea how many automotive and brand specific forums there are that they would have to be monitoring if that were the case. If GM was monitoring this thread someone from GM would have chimed in saying something along the lines of "we are looking into this particular case and please be patient while we do so" or something along those lines.


You can say what you want call it BS or whatever. I don't care. Oh and I never send in the "report card".


----------



## NBI Lawn

PetalsandPines;1234293 said:


> There is another thing that seems to contribute to the front end weight issue with certain plows...We had a monster storm in December...in which many of the municipal plow trucks just got caught way off guard....It was 41 inches in 24 hours of the heaviest wettest snow I have ever seen....yet the ground was not frozen.....what happened was the street crews were to late to respond and incredible ice ruts developed in the WNY area....*Even if you were going 5 miles an hour down these streets you would hit these ruts and bam your front end would drop and jump up along with the plow....I cant even begin to tell you how nervous that made me. The blizzards especially would jump up and down and just slam on the front end of the truck.....How does one account for or measure the sheer weight and gravity of this occuring down all the roads.....Have you ever gone over a train crossing and have the truck bottom out on the other side of it and just cringe knowing "that cant be good for the truck" now imagine adding a 1000 lb plow to the equation.....Maybe its not just about front end tolerances but also the condition of roads when you are out plowing in the depths of a major winter storm.....just a thought*?


Thats a great thought and your answer has been here all along. Even you admit "that cant be good". Also add the forces that the 1000lb plow adds...probably equal to 4X its actual weight. Your 4800lb front end was now seeing 8800lbs and maybe as much as 10,000lbs who knows . You know what caused it so fix it.


----------



## watatrp

NBI Lawn;1239548 said:


> I am not bashing, I am stating facts. You are not owed anything by anyone in this case. Your warranty is up, you overloaded it, you continued to drive it making it worse as you stated you could see the cracks growing because of the salt, etc... I understand that after a divorce you are probably a little hard up for money but this is your responsibility and you should not be pawning it off on GM.


If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Frames should not crack. If you claim that plows while in use can add up to four times their weight to the front end, then you my friend have overloaded your truck too. We all have according to that theory. I'm usually a pretty objective person. People are crossing the line here with their accusations. We should be better than that.


----------



## NBI Lawn

watatrp;1239724 said:


> If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Frames should not crack. If you claim that plows while in use can add up to four times their weight to the front end, then you my friend have overloaded your truck too. We all have according to that theory. I'm usually a pretty objective person. People are crossing the line here with their accusations. We should be better than that.


Absolutely, I agree 100%. At idle or under regular driving/plowing conditions I am within spec. Why should frames not crack if put under extreme loads?

I am really just having fun with this now. It is beyond me how anyone should think this a warranty item for GM. I hope that they do cover it for him. His attitude towards it from the get go was all wrong in my opinion. Makeing a big lemon banner for it before even actually speeking with GM or getting the final answer, etc.

EDIT: What do you mean if I cant say anything nice? Because I didn't tell the guy I think he deserves a new frame covered 100% by GM? Out of warranty is out of warranty, that means no coverage by the manufacturer. Their obligation for service is over.


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

watatrp;1239724 said:


> If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Frames should not crack. If you claim that plows while in use can add up to four times their weight to the front end, then you my friend have overloaded your truck too. We all have according to that theory. I'm usually a pretty objective person. People are crossing the line here with their accusations. We should be better than that.


All of us have done something wrong but how many blame someone else for the results?


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## watatrp

NBI Lawn;1239748 said:


> Absolutely, I agree 100%. At idle or under regular driving/plowing conditions I am within spec. Why should frames not crack if put under extreme loads?
> 
> I am really just having fun with this now. It is beyond me how anyone should think this a warranty item for GM. I hope that they do cover it for him. His attitude towards it from the get go was all wrong in my opinion. Makeing a big lemon banner for it before even actually speeking with GM or getting the final answer, etc.
> 
> EDIT: What do you mean if I cant say anything nice? Because I didn't tell the guy I think he deserves a new frame covered 100% by GM? Out of warranty is out of warranty, that means no coverage by the manufacturer. Their obligation for service is over.


Whether you think so or not, GM and all auto manufacturers are responsible for their product even if it is out of warranty. Think about this....if a frame had cracked and somehow the plow had come off and killed or injured someone, would GM be able to wash their hands of responsibilty? What if it had happened dozens of times? There are countless occasions where the auto manufacturers cover items that are out of warranty. My car is 7 years old with 135k miles on it and just recently the glow plugs were recalled because they could break and damage the engine. It was out of warranty by 4 years and almost 100k miles. Just because someone decided that a huge cost to the car owner was the result of a faulty design. It was investigated and fixed. It would be interesting to know how many frames have had this failure and under what conditions. Just a five minute search on the internet will result in dozens if not hundreds of examples of cracked frames.


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## Mike_PS

enough with the language, attacks, accusations, etc.

time to move on...thanks


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