# Rates for skidsteers?



## rdbpower (Dec 7, 2008)

What is the average rate for a skidsteer with a snobucket vs a snowbox. Thanks


----------



## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

Ive seen as low as $125, which is rediculous, and as high as $300/HR for a midsized SSL. Id like to see the rates around different areas. Considering the operating cost and the moving costs I like seeing $200-250 myself.


----------



## snow game (Sep 28, 2008)

I would love to get that kind of money for a skid steer, not around here. I'm happy with the 125.00


----------



## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

Looks like I'm moving to Jersey next winter


----------



## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

I charge anywhere from $100-$135 for a skid with an angle plow.

If its got one of the pushers on it, no less than $135-$150

But....

We do some places where I've got an angle plow and the pusher there...and we use both. Some areas we can't get into with the pusher......if its something like this where I know I'm going to be using both I just write it up as $135 an hour


----------



## andrewlawnrangr (Dec 3, 2004)

300 for a skid loader..... not seen in pa more like 100-135 depending on size and with whats on the front...........


----------



## ford550 (Nov 9, 2008)

We are getting between $100 to $125 for ours.


----------



## BIGBEN2004 (Aug 28, 2008)

Wow those are great numbers I am normally getting only 60-75 an hour for mine. I need to ask for more.


----------



## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

those numbers seam extreamly high to me I wouod think it be below $100


----------



## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

For 125 it can stay parked at the yard. More chance of damage, more tire wear, higher replacement cost, etc. I can by a fleet of semi used 3/4 tons and make 125 x all day long. and when it is over they can just drive right back home. When I figure my rates its turn key. If it takes me 3 hours of prep and 3 hours of pushing, the rate is 6 hours worth for the skid. So to answer the responses I may get 125 / Hr for the skid, but it includes everything from the moment I look at it to the moment I plug it back in. So while other are not charging for their prep time and get 375 for a 3 hour push, I can get 750. I think that is fair considering I can hook up a plow in 60 seconds and go.

The 300/hr was an industrial park that was trying to cheap out. It was massive and they had pretty ignorant requests. It wasnt worth the 300/hr if you ask me.


----------



## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

I think he asked for the "Average" rate, not the "Ignorant" rate. And from the sound of it, I'd say he is new to using a skid for snow removal or new to the business all together and is asking for some honest help......rdbplower....I hope you didn't use those $300 an hour figures for a bid or contract you were trying to get.


----------



## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

WOW - too bad there is not a funny gif what shows a butt load of money.


How much is a skidsteer worth ??? Well, it depends. First off the perception is that the skidsteer is faster than a pickup for clearing a lot. All around should be able to out perform hands down. A push box not a bucket, not a straight blade unless doing driveways and has turbo.

I've seen great driver/equipment packages that can rip through a lot and do a quality and clean job without having to be spoon feed or supported by multiple pickups... These guys take the headache out and are worth 1.5 to 2.5x over a pickup. 

Then again I've seen driver/operators who have caused more work and stunk and are worth less than an atv trying to do a 200k sq foot lot.


----------



## stauffer.80 (Aug 21, 2008)

A contractor just told me today that they pay $85 with a pusher on it. Piss on that, not when we can get $130/hr as a sub.


----------



## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

The last bid opening i went to 4 contrctors bid $80-85 for a SS. and then there was a guy in there at $45 per hour. I thought I was giving a screaming deal at $85.00

The guys that are getting $125+ , thats great if you can. Most small back hoe loaders with 12' boxes are only going for low to mid 100's per hour


----------



## andrewlawnrangr (Dec 3, 2004)

well then i guess im goin to bill for the skid loader.... washing after each use greasing after i plow the lots.. its all basic maintenance of owning a machine that in a sence is not billable to a cust if u are bidding on a property.. 300 per hour is rediculous


----------



## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

I disagree completely. Your rate needs to include covering you for the time it takes to clean and grease and fuel and transport your machine. That machine consumes x amount in maintenance fees and your time, plus replacement costs, insurance etc. These are all part of what you need to know to get your rate. If you charge 85 / hr cause that is what everyone is charging you are just going to lose money like everyone else. If you lose work because of your price than you are not doing your job of selling your services properly.

Most of us have other businesses the rest of the year. Do you price your business based on others or do you price it based on your costs. About the only thing knowing your neighbors price is good for is knowing what the market will bare. If you cant get work cause your prices are too high than you need to reduce your costs in order to lower your prices. I look at it like this and this is only my opinion. You can get a pretty decent truck and plow for under 10K and it will last you a good 5+ years with minimal maintenance if you choose the right vehicle. Have you ever seen a good reliable skid for under 10K with a plow. Most skids Ive seen are pretty tired for 10K and not so sure Id want to be in it at 3AM when it breaks. Maintenance costs are higher and more frequent on a skid.

With that said I would rather use my skid over 2 trucks anyday, but if I cant get my rates than the trucks can push all day long. I dont work for free. A lot of people do though and it is the reason why companies go under every year.


----------



## Otts (Nov 8, 2008)

Wow, you guys are lucky. All guys do around here is under cut each other. We get $75/hr for your bobcat w/ 8' snow bucket. A big excavating outfit has 3 endloader with 12' blades on them, I heard he gets $125/hr for each of them.


----------



## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

shovelracer;671344 said:


> I disagree completely. Your rate needs to include covering you for the time it takes to clean and grease and fuel and transport your machine. That machine consumes x amount in maintenance fees and your time, plus replacement costs, insurance etc. These are all part of what you need to know to get your rate. If you charge 85 / hr cause that is what everyone is charging you are just going to lose money like everyone else. If you lose work because of your price than you are not doing your job of selling your services properly.
> 
> Most of us have other businesses the rest of the year. Do you price your business based on others or do you price it based on your costs. About the only thing knowing your neighbors price is good for is knowing what the market will bare. If you cant get work cause your prices are too high than you need to reduce your costs in order to lower your prices. I look at it like this and this is only my opinion. You can get a pretty decent truck and plow for under 10K and it will last you a good 5+ years with minimal maintenance if you choose the right vehicle. Have you ever seen a good reliable skid for under 10K with a plow. Most skids Ive seen are pretty tired for 10K and not so sure Id want to be in it at 3AM when it breaks. Maintenance costs are higher and more frequent on a skid.
> 
> With that said I would rather use my skid over 2 trucks anyday, but if I cant get my rates than the trucks can push all day long. I dont work for free. A lot of people do though and it is the reason why companies go under every year.


I bought a 75XT 3 years ago with just over 1500 hours...I looked and looked but I wasnt spending over $11,500 for a loader came across that loader after 2 months of searching...its got around 2100 hours now....in the time I've owned it repair wise....Maybe $1500 bucks.
I'm sure it cost the manager of some McDonalds 20-30 bucks a to drive to and from work for fuel...add in an oil change every 3 months....now he has all his figured and calculations and goes to the owner and says Oh BTW...I incurred these expenses....pay me. That owner is gonna say bye bye ....why cause there are others that can do just as good a job or better for less money.
All your doing is price gouging.


----------



## zigzag82 (Oct 5, 2008)

Here in Grand county Colorado, we are getting $100\hr for a SS, and $150 to $180\hr for our loaders with plow. On the loaders it depends on if we are plowing, bucketing, or pulling Ice.There is a guy upi here that is charging $200\hr for a single speed bobcat S185 with, get this, a bucket. Then he charges $50 more if he has to use his tooth bar.


----------



## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

Price gouging would be more like if they didnt have a choice of a lower price somewhere else and I was taking advantage of their situation by charging a higher rate. There is nothing wrong with having a higher price than someone who doesnt know their expenses. Its called a free market. You arent going to go to the Mercedes dealer and tell them you can get a toyota across the street for half the pricce are you. Thats not price gouging.

As far as the McD'd manager it is his responsibility to determine whether or not his $10/Hr can cover his cost of living. That includes his fuel. Yes the owner isnt going to give him more money cause he bought a new car, but the manager also has the ability to refuse the job and take a higher paying one. 

Same applies here. It is your responsibility to determine what it really costs to not only own the SSL, but higher a driver, transport it, maintain it, store it, and replace it. That rate is going to be unique to you and no one elses rates should effect that. The actual amount / HR is irrelevant. The point is that your rate should be different than anyone elses, and their rates should be different from another guys. By everyone charging the same rate is what is called "Price Fixing".


----------



## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Your cost can vary greatly depending on how offen you use the machine. Your machine cost, tires, oil changes etc should be devided by how may hours you expect to bill for the year.
If i run my machine 30 hour a week all year then my cost per hour for the machine will be a lot less than the guy that only runs it 5-10 hours a week


----------



## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

I'll add one more thing. It is also expected that the rates would be lower in an area like the upper NE or NW because even though the cost of living is generally higher there are more storms to pay your overhead. Same as it should be lower in the central US cause even though the storm totals may be less, the cost of living is even lower. It is expected that in an area like NJ the rates will be higher because there are less storms than other areas and the cost of living is high. It is called covering your overhead. 

Lets say you have to make 10K ( just a number) per machine per winter to break even. Somewhere like Ohio that might get 20 storms only needs to make $500 per storm to get out of the red. Somewhere like south NJ who might only get 5 storms has to make $2000 per storm to do the same thing. Now this obviously doesnt take into account the difference in hours and maintenance, but the point is there.

It is business management, and just going out there and charging a blind rate cause that's what the other guy does is only setting yourself up for disaster. It's not worth working for free. My bed is warm and there is no reason to leave it at 1AM just to break even. Without knowing the details of your true expenses though you dont really know whether or not your making money.


----------



## stauffer.80 (Aug 21, 2008)

stauffer.80;670928 said:


> A contractor just told me today that they pay $85 with a pusher on it. Piss on that, not when we can get $130/hr as a sub.


Excuse me, I meant $130 for a backhoe and pusher or $90 without the pusher.


----------



## snow game (Sep 28, 2008)

Question Shovelracer? 
This "$200 - $250 figure that you like seeing" is this what you are actually billing customers for on invoices or is this what you figure you are making on let's say actual hours worked on a job that you have quoted for the season? This thread has caught my attention for a while now, so I try to justify your middle of the road quote 225.00/ hr. depending on several factors. Some of them I'm sure on what job your bidding, type of business, proximity to other jobs or your shop. But at the end of the day I'm impressed that you can send out a bill for a machine, (never mind a skid steer) at an hourly rate of $225.00. I was speaking to a friend today and we were talking prices per hour for loader, he said a friend of his is getting 180.00 per hour for his loader IT28 2.5cy bucket no pusher and we were both saying we would gladly but our machines out ther for the same. Early in the season (August is usually when we do most our snow plowing quotes) one guy quoted me $220.00 per hour for a loader, NO pusher, but he would use mine if I provided him with one) 4 hour minimum. He had a Cat 924 with a 3cy bucket, I obviously never called him back. 
God bless you if getting that kind of money, I do a lot of cost analysis, I have huge overhead cost's have been in business for 30 years and would never dare to invoice a skid steer at that hourly rate in black and white print. There certinaly are jobs that I have made that rate on but the costs were hidden elsewhere and by no means is an average. I'm not knocking you I'm asking how you sell it?


----------



## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

I dont bill as hourly. Basically when I am approached by a prospective commercial client I ask them to choose 1 of three choices before they get a price. Those are Per Hour, Per Push, and Seasonal. 98% choose per push. A few have asked for seasonal, but no one has asked for hourly. They have told me that they dont want my drivers wasting time. I disagree with their thoughts, but I dont think Ive ever won that conversation.

So to answer your question if they choose hourly it would be closer to 125 with a 4 hour minimum. Seasonal would be based on our average of the last five winters. And per push clients are always going to pay the most. Lot I showed in other thread will be cleared out 2.5 hours at 4" average with an 8' box. It will cost him 600 for the first push and 400 for each after. Driver will have to stay on site during business hours for driveway access. Push will restart every 4 hours as long as it is snowing. Thats what they wanted

Now I would have gladly offered seasonal rate that would have been around 20K, but people think what if it doesnt snow. So he could wind up spending closer to 30K.

Basically we dont get the iccumulation in this area that we used to, but we still get a fair number of serviceable events. People dont think about it cause they arent crippling events, but it adds up quick.

Snow Game I take no offense to your comment. My only problem was guys saying that say they charge 125 cause thats what the other guy charges. That is just as ignorant as me asking for 250.

I like to work smarter not harder. If I can get a higher rate and work less, and keep customers more power to me. The other guys can run around like headless chickens.


----------



## Pennings Garden (Dec 11, 2006)

not answering exactly what you are asking but in the spring summer and fall I charge $450.- a half day (4 hours) and $750 a full day (8 hours)


----------



## BMWSTUD25 (Aug 21, 2008)

I use my 420 with 66" bucket to move piles on site and to load my f-550 with snow when too much is piled up. I only charge them $75 an hour for the skid and $130 an hour for the skid and truck, which i know is very very reasonable. But usually its just me or maybe me and one other person doing this so its okay with me. As for plowing with one, i get over $100 an hour for a 3/4 pickup so a my skid would be more like 125-150 but i really dont do that. Also if a lot takes me 20 min with a truck and i charge 50 thats $150 if you dont count the minimal drive time i have. With an 8-12' pusher depending on the model you should be able to cut at least 5-10 min off a lot and now your skid is make that same $50 for the lot that now only takes say 15 min so thats $200 an hour. I know this isnt perfect math and isn't always true but there are soooo many varialbles and this was some what simple


----------



## BMWSTUD25 (Aug 21, 2008)

Hey shovelracer, where in sussex county are you located?? Use to live in hampton until about 8 years ago. The area down there is def a little more affluent then up here and hourly rates go for a little more. Snow down there is getting to be almost as rare as snow in atlanta it seems but in one aspect its good because it drives out the competition.


----------



## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

About 2 miles away.


----------



## BMWSTUD25 (Aug 21, 2008)

Sweet. I miss the area a lot. Really nice place to live and grow up. And holy cow i was down there a couple years ago and Newton and Rt 206 have really grown! SOOO much more than was there when I left. Best of luck to you!:salute:


----------



## country_boy (Oct 31, 2008)

i am at 135 for my skid with 10ft box pusher


----------



## Inverted99 (Dec 21, 2008)

We pay our subs $122.00 an hour for a high flow (37 G.P.M.) skid steer, with a matched snow thrower on the front of it. Hope that helps...Jeff


----------



## KAG (Jul 19, 2007)

I bid it per push up to 5 inches and then for anything over 5 inches I get an on top of hourly rate. So over 5 inches its base per push cost + $70hr on top of it per SS until the lot is cleared using a 8 1/2ft V-plow.
Each time we come back during same event its the same cost. If they want to be a "priority push" they pay 25% extra. For just SS with tooth bucket I get $85hr w/3hr min including delivery transport time.


----------



## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

Average rates her'e in southeast mass. as follows. Backhoe $125. Skidsteer $100. Compact tractor/loaders (5000 #) $75.


----------



## NoFearDeere (Nov 7, 2005)

I charge $95 an hour for a skiddy and I might be the highest contractor in town!


----------



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Boy this just confirms I live in the lowest plowing/snow removal market i the USA! Our rates are 1/3 as some of the other prices. 3/4 with 8ft blade...$40-45/hr 1 ton with 8ft or 9ft blade...maybe $45-55/hr, skid steer with or with out blade or pusher 45-65/hr, front end loader as low as 85/hr. I'm moving!


----------



## plowtime1 (Nov 1, 2007)

Granted, everyone wants the job and would want to be compensated for the equipment deployed. Recently, I went through a situation where a HOA wanted a skid for 4" inches above(what?) O'K we say...8 hours @150phr. There comments "but originally you wanted $400.00 for 2" trigger" (4 hours 100phr). I politely responded " I have signed other HOA'S based on our past performance and didn't hesitate. Simply: I wont budge, they could've hired us earlier. 
If the HOA can dictate what rules/games they want to play, so be it, I have skids worth over 30k plus and reasonable know the value of a good company period. 
For all out there.. best of luck


----------



## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

$85-$100 bucks an hour around here. Anything higher and you would be sitting at home during the storm.


----------



## plowtime1 (Nov 1, 2007)

$100.00 is nothing to steer away from: again.... depends on location and the PITA'S your going to have to deal with.


----------



## kcress31 (Sep 20, 2009)

Where I am there are a few snow guys that only charge 40 - 60 per hour for their skids and loaders. What the customer doesn't realize is that they are getting overbilled for more hours than the machine actually worked so they are in effect paying a higher rate. These guys also use outdated equipment with small buckets. The trick on converting those customers to me is the price per push.


----------



## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

shovelracer;673105 said:


> I dont bill as hourly. Basically when I am approached by a prospective commercial client I ask them to choose 1 of three choices before they get a price. Those are Per Hour, Per Push, and Seasonal. 98% choose per push. A few have asked for seasonal, but no one has asked for hourly. They have told me that they dont want my drivers wasting time. I disagree with their thoughts, but I dont think Ive ever won that conversation.


You know, this always cracks me up. Nobody wants to do hourly, they all think they are going to get ripped off, so they want a straight price. So, when you bid a straight price, you certainly don't bid it to lose, so they always end up paying more. So, to avoid getting ripped off, the customer pays more money. It's very strange, but true.

People don't like hourly, they like a set price. I see this in my summer work too.


----------



## Advantage (Nov 7, 2007)

kcress31;820830 said:


> Where I am there are a few snow guys that only charge 40 - 60 per hour for their skids and loaders. What the customer doesn't realize is that they are getting overbilled for more hours than the machine actually worked so they are in effect paying a higher rate. These guys also use outdated equipment with small buckets. The trick on converting those customers to me is the price per push.


This type of trickery runs rampant in our market as well. Bidding hourly against a contractor who bids $40.00/hr then simply triples the times at invoicing is an exercise in futility.


----------



## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

Just made a deal with 3 different contractors.

All at 60 an hour with plow and pusher.

Decided not to rent them this year for the sites.


----------



## G.McNeill&Son (Nov 19, 2009)

Wow those rates are high for MA. I hard pressed to 80hr w/ pusher and power angles for the three I have


----------



## rob_cook2001 (Nov 15, 2008)

The company I sub for pays me $60 and hour for my S300 with a blade... Same as they pay trucks! I feel Me and my machine are worth much more but they treat me good and are giving me a good amount of hours. Better than sitting all winter (and no I am not a lowballer) LOL


----------



## StuveCorp (Dec 20, 2005)

Definitely an entertaining thread. I like what Shovel Racer did on bidding and then use the productivity to his advantage. I was at 85 an hour when I plowed and that was on the high side. I know even now there is lots of guys at the 50-60 per hour, what's the point? I know they aren't getting lots of hours so they are likely going backwards.

With skids you are almost at a disadvantage if you have a big blade or plow with wings and two speed. How much more efficient are you compared to someone with an single speed skid and bucket? Or a guy that doesn't have a cab?


----------



## nhpatriot (Dec 9, 2007)

Okay, so my skiddies are worth $300/hour? What about my big wheel loader? $1000/hr?

Thanks, I can finally start doing my billing correctly, and buy that new Bentley that I have been wanting.


----------



## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

StuveCorp;900636 said:


> Definitely an entertaining thread. I like what Shovel Racer did on bidding and then use the productivity to his advantage. I was at 85 an hour when I plowed and that was on the high side. I know even now there is lots of guys at the 50-60 per hour, what's the point? I know they aren't getting lots of hours so they are likely going backwards.
> 
> With skids you are almost at a disadvantage if you have a big blade or plow with wings and two speed. How much more efficient are you compared to someone with an single speed skid and bucket? Or a guy that doesn't have a cab?


Many contractors here will only hire 2 speed skids.



nhpatriot;900867 said:


> Okay, so my skiddies are worth $300/hour? What about my big wheel loader? $1000/hr?
> 
> Thanks, I can finally start doing my billing correctly, and buy that new Bentley that I have been wanting.


Good luck on that LOL.
Remember in NJ you only get 5-15 billable hours per snow season, so you have to charge $300 an hour to cover the cost to grease it.


----------



## StuveCorp (Dec 20, 2005)

If you told someone in town here you wanted $200 per hour for a skid they would laugh at you, probably would laugh at that much for a loader too but I'd rather hear about someone that is trying to get good money and not giving their self away.

What you you say what a 90 horsepower skid with two speed, wolf paw tires, 8611 Blizzard with danger wings and experienced operator would be worth?


----------



## kcress31 (Sep 20, 2009)

Not to far from where I am located I have a rental dealer that will rent A Bobcat S250 for $2500 / month - alowed 176 hrs and a sweeper for $ 1500 / month plus the cost of shipping to me and return shipping. Now I figure $2500 divided by 176 hrs = 14.20 / hr cost + operator $25 / hr including vacation, pension,WSIB,Employment insurance etc. + Fuel $10 / hr == TOTAL 49.20 / HR. Add in freight both ways $1000 - $1500 adds another 8.52 / hr for a total of $57.72 / hr. Now this is the cost if you actually use up all of the 176 hrs. If you use less than that you hourly costs would be even higher.

Now add in the cost of the sweeper $57.72 + 8.52= 66.24 cost per hr to run not including insurance and maintenance and you own transportation to and from job sites. Now If my local rental shop is charging these rates then I figure I can charge at least $90 - $100 / hr for my own machine. If I charge any less it would be stupid.

Now a new S250 sized machine is about $40 - $50 k. If you are making $30 an hour profit it would take you about 1700 hrs to pay for your machine. If you were making $15 per hour profit it would take 3400 hrs to pay for it. Now if you are onlt puting 250 hrs per winter on that machine ti would take you almost seven years to pay for it. By the time it is paid for It will not be worth much to sell or trade in.

All I can say is that I don't know how guys can charge so little to rent their machines. I know a guy who just bought a brand new Terex R.T Backhoe for about $75,000 and he is only charging $56.00 / hr. take fuel, insurance, maintenance and operator out of that and it only leaves you with $15 - $20 / hr profit. Maybe he didn't take math in school.

For anyone out there wondering where they should be on price call your local rental shops or CAT / John Deere, etc. dealer and price out what it would cost you to rent one of their machines. Then add in your profit margin and do the math.


----------



## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

Many people simply don't take the time to actually figure out what their real costs actually are. I think most do not figure in replacement costs in their calculations. It's probably the main reason this thread started in the fist place. I agree with kcress in the way he is looking at things, with one exception. The local rental guys (be it CAT, Deere, Bobcat, or whomever) are renting at a profit. The daily cost is even higher when you are renting for shorter terms. If you are actually renting the equipment, than this is an actual cost. If you own (or are buying) the equipment, than your actual costs are lower. Where many variances come in daily (or hourly) costs is when the individual decides how much life they expect to get from that particular peice of equipment. In other words how many hours will the cost of paying for (and replacement of) a particular machine will you divide these costs into. I would like to think that I can get more than 1700 hours of usable life from my equipment. If I don't I will be looking at other brands for future purchases. I don't have a lot of long term experience with skid steers. It took a while for me to recognize their usefullness (before which I thought they were nothing more than glorified wheel barrels). The A300 that I currently own has about 2,000 hours on it. I hope it will go at least twice that far. I talked to a CAT engineer while I was in Peoria, IL (invited to demo, and comment on the "D" series backhoe prototype) about expected machine life. He told me that they expect at least 5,000 hours of useful life before an owner should start expecting major component failure/rebuild/repairs. I have about 12,000 hours on my CAT 416 C (the machine I have that has the most hours on it). I had to rebuild part of the transmission (6500 hrs) due to the failure of a $2 snap ring. Clutches and gears (that were not damaged by the failure) showed almost no wear. At 11,500 (+/-) I decided to replace the hydraulic pump. It did not fail, but I decided that it was feeling a little tired. To make a long story short, I think that a machine should last at leaast 5,000 hours. It seems as though most skid steer owners (who purchase new) will trade them in at about 2,000 hours. I would like to here comments as to why (from actual personal experience). Are the machines wearing out, or is it for other reasons (taxes, warranty, ??).


----------



## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

kcress31;902249 said:


> For anyone out there wondering where they should be on price call your local rental shops or CAT / John Deere, etc. dealer and price out what it would cost you to rent one of their machines. Then add in your profit margin and do the math.


Good point kcress. Although your #'s are way higher than mine, which I'm sure is due to the different currency, markets, competition, etc....., anyone could simply plug their own #'s into the "template" you provided to get more than an "educated guess."



DGODGR;902309 said:


> I would like to here comments as to why (from actual personal experience). Are the machines wearing out, or is it for other reasons (taxes, warranty, ??).


I'll give you my own personal experience:

Bought a heavily used MY 2002 S250 in spring of '04 for 14.5K plus tax. It was a farm unit that had ~3700 hrs. at the time. It averaged out to about 1600 hrs. per year use by the farm, so I assumed it was alot of idle hours. I wasn't very concerned with the hours, as the machine was supposedly used mainly for scraping manure & loading feed, much less abusive than what the machine was going to see under my ownership. My business was still quite young, & I needed something bigger to compliment our little 763 in my const. biz.

In Dec. '06, I traded that machine in on the same specced machine ,other than the new one had a Kubota vs. the Duetz & there was an $800 upcharge for the SD tires.
New '07 S250 : $30,500
Trade in from '02 S250 : - $12,500
Balance left for new : $18,000

To me, it was a no-brainer considering the work I needed & wanted to do to the '02 over winter. The new S250 could buy me years more use than the old one (~4400 hrs. when traded in) and the dependability factor was huge for me with 4-5 employees at the time. I'm not the most mechanically inclined guy when it comes to this stuff, so down time could have more adverse effects in the middle of summer for someone like me. That being said, I would have no problem running this machine to 2K+ hours, but there's a fine line where trading in for new & repairing old w/o a payment cross. Unfortunatly, that line is basically unkown until it's crossed. And it's different for every business & person. I'm sure you're more mechanically apt to repair major problems yourself, so reliability may very well be a much smaller issue for you.

The warranty is less of an issue to me as I've been fortunate to never need it with either new machine I bought.

The tax write-off (hence the Dec. '06 purchase date) definatly has more bearing for me depending on the year.


----------



## kcress31 (Sep 20, 2009)

I have to agree with you dogoder. I realize that the local rental guys are renting at a profit. I consider the rental guys a a competitor and a benchmark to see what they are renting equipment for whether it's a skid or a 50 ton excavator. I do a lot of subcontracting to large companies who either rent from the rental guys and hire their own operator or they hire us with an operator. The advantage of hiring us is that they can hire us 4, 8, 12 hrs one day or 2 - 7 days a week or for months at a time. If they rent a machine from a rental place they have to find and pay for an operator, fuel insurance and shipping costs and also possibly rent for a few months when they only need the machine for 1 or 2 days a week for the duration of the job. So I consider the rental guys as one of my competitors. I always check what their rates are and I adjust mine accordingly.

Here are the current rental rates for loaders from an Ontario cat place that I use as a guideline as to how much I can get for my equipment or If I need a machine for a job that I don't own I can price my job accordingly. Most machines are 176 allowable hours plus freight. They have all of their other equipment on their website.

CAT LOADERS 
924 -128 hp - 25600 lbs - 2.2-3.6 yd bucket - $5900 / month 
928 - 149 hp -27700 lbs - 2.6 - 3.0 yd bucket - $6400 / month
930 - 149 hp - 28700 lbs - 2.6 - 3.5 yd bucket - $6800 / month
938 - 197 hp - 29700 lbs - 3.0 - 4.0 yd bucket - $7200 / month
950 - 217 hp - 40400 lbs - 3.5 - 4.5 yd bucket - $9200 / month
962 - 230 hp - 42700 lbs - 3.75 - 5.0 yd bucket - $10000 / month
966 - 286 hp - 52250 lbs - 4.5 - 5.5 yd bucket - $13000 / month
972 - 311 hp - 55500 lbs - 5.0 - 6.0 yd bucket - $14500 / month
980 - 355 hp - 67300 lbs - 5.0 - 8.0 yd bucket - $17500 / month
988 - 475 hp - 109250 lbs - 8.2 - 9.2 yd bucket - $30000 / month


I just use this as a guideline. I charge below and above this guide depending on the machine and the customer. I just got a 2 week job for my 988 B which would have otherwise sat all winter. It should generate about $50,000 over the job.


----------

