# Brickman AKA BFS



## kenworth (Nov 23, 2011)

Brickman and BFS Be careful if you decide to be sub out by them, they are a-holes, my friend had an issue last year with a Lowes snow contract that he was awarded and had a signed contract from them and an error on there part there was already a plow contractor for that site hired by property owner , so long story short he lost it and they told him we can terminate at any time read your contract,
now this year they pulled some other things with reguards to the october snow storm ot of contract plowing they wanted us to plow and shovel and salt bank of America sited for $50 what are they crazy i made that money when i was 12 years old shoveling driveways 
they are very slow to pay they hold back your monthly payment until the next month so you do not get paid for theservice month until the following month also the first monthly payments are only a portion of the full payment. so you have to lay out money for salt/labor/fuel/calcium and you finally get your profit in march.... They SUCK


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## cpmi (Dec 18, 2010)

Well the secret about Brickman is finally outThumbs Up
Thanks for the heads up


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

Whew, I need to catch my breath after reading that one. Nice punctuation. 

Pretty sure that all the nationals are more or less the same.


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## Hambrick & Co. (Nov 17, 2007)

I have about 20 accounts that I service for Brickman (Winter and Summer), they're very very slow on payment but they always pay. The problem with them is that they are too big for their own good. 

For example if there is an issue at a site I will literally get 7 calls from diffrent Brickman people telling me about the same problem. By the time I get the last call the problem is already fixed! 

Other than being slow and poor communication I have no major issues with them. You're buddies contract should have a time frame in which they need to give him notice of contract termination. 

Mike


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## Hambrick & Co. (Nov 17, 2007)

dfd9;1355424 said:


> Whew, I need to catch my breath after reading that one. Nice punctuation.
> 
> Pretty sure that all the nationals are more or less the same.


Ha ^..........


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

cpmi;1355419 said:


> Well the secret about Brickman is finally outThumbs Up
> Thanks for the heads up


:laughing::laughing::laughing:...Thats Funny...


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## kenworth (Nov 23, 2011)

yes I know all about there different reps every time i called there was a new area manager and there calls from different reps kept comming in. Also last year they deducted money from final payment due to 2 calls on a snow storm to clean up where town plow put some snow by one of the entrances bull crap we showed up and it was nothing


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## Silverstreak (Oct 25, 2007)

im not sure how bfs is but when my father worked for the branches 20+ years they always paid 15 days on the dot. in later years they started holding a 15% damage waiver till the end of the year, but never once did i have money taken out of that. 

been good people, everywhere is different though, different branches run things different ways. i hear as of last year they turned to 45 day payment, but theyre one of the last big companies that wont try and find a loophole to get out of paying, at least in my experiences.

i agree on the chain of command, the turnover with brickman is high...they do pay decently so i dont know why its such a problem, so theres always someone new, and a lot of the supervisors are young guys who arent always on top of their game, so the superintendents and branch managers do tend to check up on things.

my cousin still does a lowes for bfs, on the last storm they overnighted him a check cause the contract didnt start till nov 1st and the snow was on oct 29th and my cuz was leary to do it.

good luck, i wonder why brickman would have wasted time bidding snow services on a lowes where the building owner had his own guy?


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Brickman is GREAT to work for. I always get paid 30 days (although the first payment of the year may take an extra week) never an issue with anything. We took on extra work this year and the job kinda sucks. The manager says to me do what it says in the scope of work, if we lose this guy it will be a blessing to me in the summer!


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Silverstreak;1355555 said:


> im not sure how bfs is but when my father worked for the branches 20+ years they always paid 15 days on the dot. in later years they started holding a 15% damage waiver till the end of the year, but never once did i have money taken out of that.
> 
> been good people, everywhere is different though, different branches run things different ways. i hear as of last year they turned to 45 day payment, but theyre one of the last big companies that wont try and find a loophole to get out of paying, at least in my experiences.
> 
> ...


Something is screwy with the original OP, and I'm guessing there is more to the story than we know. Anytime I see a post about a national that starts out " My Good Friend" , is usually a red flag to me.

As for the building owner hiring their own company, that's bogus. There are no Lowes, that I have ever heard of, that weren't corporately owned in some way by Lowes, unless it's part of a strip Mall, and I've never seen one like that.

As for payments, I do a Lowes for BFS, and I get paid on the 15th of every month, and on time. I keep in good contact with them, and they keep in good contact with me.

With the nasty year we had last year, BFS was able to advance me my final month payment in February, on top of the January invoice in order for me to pay down my salt bill to my supplier.

This year I was able to slightly negotiate a better payment schedule in order to not have to do that again.

So, as a national, sure there are things that could be better. In my situation/region, I have had nothing but good results from BFS in the previous two years I have worked for them, and have signed up for another year.

.....


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

See I agree with the op about BFS. The pricing is low and they ficked around with me for awhile. Even the local Brickman office doesn't like working for them.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

We are not doing anymore jobs for Brickman or any kind of sub-sub out companies. I couldn't be more pleased.


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## kenworth (Nov 23, 2011)

*Bfs*

As for the Lowes location it was with in a property with other stores and the property owner of the location hired his own company for entire loaction including Lowes and bfs did not even know it was there mistake , he has contracts to prove it and e mails to prove it as well and bfs is not doing that lowes this year,
and another lowes in our area went last year for a crappy $12,000 all inclusive if any of you guys think that is good i guess no one is making any money plowing, i also found out from a former manager of lowes that bfs makes around 45% on the contract and we do all the work and lay out all the money.Take a good look at your pricing and talk to other contractors in your area and you will see for your self they will throw you under the bus and dont think they wont:


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## Silverstreak (Oct 25, 2007)

theyre gross margin is supposed to be 20 percent, i know, ive worked there

but heres food for thought, being theyre the biggest snow contractor in the world, it has to say something that theyre not posted about much, and there seem to be more good things than bad said about them, i mean, usm has a negative thread posted on them on plowsite every other day and what are they...number 15 on the list...just sayin


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## cj7plowing (Feb 7, 2009)

Brickman did a 192 million in national snow plowing contracts last year, they are doing something right!
I have heard good and bad about them, I think it depends on which area you are in and who you deal with.


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## dlcequip (Feb 19, 2007)

I have worked for brickman for nine years i have made a lot of money with them and they have been pretty good to me. This year they introduced me to the bfs regional manager. I negotiated a fair three year seasonal contract on two targets and also am taking on some chases bob evans and huntington banks. And negotiated all of them. Brickman has grown the snow plow portion of my company to a hugeportion of our bottom line. I have seen there company change to i used to get paid in fifteen now i get paid in thirty but they always pay and for the most part realy dont argue about my bills. Theres more to your friends story im sure. And so what stuff like that happens all the timethis is a dog eat dog industry the economy and the low ballers dont help things and im telling you the brickman branch i work for doesnt work cheap they add twenty percent on top of my bills i know they do i have seen there numbers. And your probably a guy with two trucks telling all his buddies how you can pay off your truck in one year with one good snow season.


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## Mike S (Feb 11, 2007)

dlcequip;1356652 said:


> I have worked for brickman for nine years i have made a lot of money with them and they have been pretty good to me. This year they introduced me to the bfs regional manager. I negotiated a fair three year seasonal contract on two targets and also am taking on some chases bob evans and huntington banks. And negotiated all of them. Brickman has grown the snow plow portion of my company to a hugeportion of our bottom line. I have seen there company change to i used to get paid in fifteen now i get paid in thirty but they always pay and for the most part realy dont argue about my bills. Theres more to your friends story im sure. And so what stuff like that happens all the timethis is a dog eat dog industry the economy and the low ballers dont help things and im telling you the brickman branch i work for doesnt work cheap they add twenty percent on top of my bills i know they do i have seen there numbers. And your probably a guy with two trucks telling all his buddies how you can pay off your truck in one year with one good snow season.


Well put! I dont feel that BFS and Brickman can be compared other then thier name. The two companies opperate differently but contract the same kind of work. The only difference is now they have both sides of the market covered. Every one just needs to really read your contracts and understand them.........


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## kenworth (Nov 23, 2011)

I sent my original message to voice a my thoughts on BFS with the hopes to help other contractors, but what i found out in my area there pricing is very low maybee i should move to your region since the pay better there also check your facts on the 20% do you think they can pay all there managers and reps a salary on you 20% and still make a profit,
Oh yea I own a little more than 2 trucks i think you got it wrong I just purchased 2 brand new trucks with 2 new western wide out plows and 2 new western tornado spreaders, I also think one of my 4 triaxle kenworth trucks are worth more than 3/4 of your equipment you have listed
just saying ** dont forget i put the original post up not to bash other contractors only to help


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## Mike S (Feb 11, 2007)

kenworth;1356917 said:


> I sent my original message to voice a my thoughts on BFS with the hopes to help other contractors, but what i found out in my area there pricing is very low maybee i should move to your region since the pay better there also check your facts on the 20% do you think they can pay all there managers and reps a salary on you 20% and still make a profit,
> Oh yea I own a little more than 2 trucks i think you got it wrong I just purchased 2 brand new trucks with 2 new western wide out plows and 2 new western tornado spreaders, I also think one of my 4 triaxle kenworth trucks are worth more than 3/4 of your equipment you have listed
> just saying ** dont forget i put the original post up not to bash other contractors only to help


Im not bashing you im just saying that it sounds like the contracts where not looked over enough. All of that stuff that is complained about is covered in the contract. In the end no one forces anybody to sign a contract with them. LOL!!! And also I will agree DLC didnt have to go there about your equipment!


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

cpmi;1355419 said:


> Well the secret about Brickman is finally outThumbs Up
> Thanks for the heads up


lol, my brotha from another motha! yeah we know all about brickmans , lipinskis and usm. Thumbs Up


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Ramairfreak98ss;1356930 said:


> lol, my brotha from another motha! yeah we know all about brickmans , lipinskis and usm. Thumbs Up


First you have never worked for Lipinski and from what I'm reading probably not for brick man either. Lipinski pays very well and on time. Brickman pays faster and even better rates.


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## dlcequip (Feb 19, 2007)

kenworth;1356917 said:


> I sent my original message to voice a my thoughts on BFS with the hopes to help other contractors, but what i found out in my area there pricing is very low maybee i should move to your region since the pay better there also check your facts on the 20% do you think they can pay all there managers and reps a salary on you 20% and still make a profit,
> Oh yea I own a little more than 2 trucks i think you got it wrong I just purchased 2 brand new trucks with 2 new western wide out plows and 2 new western tornado spreaders, I also think one of my 4 triaxle kenworth trucks are worth more than 3/4 of your equipment you have listed
> just saying ** dont forget i put the original post up not to bash other contractors only to help


I agree with you a little on the 20 % they probably do have a better profit margin on some accounts espeacially when you get a guy that thinks he is going to be a big deal because he is plowing for brickman and he is getting a couple big box stores. But thats his fault for taking on an account that he knows nothing about. You being the smart business man that you are get top dollar for 
everything you do. I want to be just like you


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

lilweeds;1356956 said:


> First you have never worked for Lipinski and from what I'm reading probably not for brick man either. Lipinski pays very well and on time. Brickman pays faster and even better rates.


RRRRIiight.. so which company do you work for? payup


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## tjlands (Sep 29, 2005)

hoping this gets interesting.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Will these ever end.... If anyone should have something to say about any national I DO from what happen to us last year but I won't. It's water under the bridge now and they have different guys in there now who so far work well with us. But lets face it guys.....there are some guys in the business new or not who have no business trying to run a business! You may be the best plow guy out there but... There's a lot of young guys who just don't understand or have the experience to deal with these situations. EVERY contract I've ever got wether it be from AGMG, USM, and someone who was from down south, everything is spelled out in black and white and I don't agree with 100% of it but I make damn sure the things I don't like about them don't happen. Read it, understand it, like it or don't like it but don't sign something your not willing face if the sh!t hits the fan. And if you do decide to sign it make damn sure you can fulfill the needs and understand the repercussions if you can't. I said it in another post, these places are a huge undertaking so if you don't have the equipment or manpower (because they suck up a ton of it) don't lie to yourself in thinking you can, your only going to get burned bad. My situation turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Next year I'm taking everything they hand me! I remember when these big stores used to go to the guys who have been in the business for several, several years and had a good grasp on pricing and general operations in general, now the younger crowd, mostly companies who have only been around 5 or less years are doing these types of places and either *****ing about everything or just doing stupid things.


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## cdsnow (Feb 2, 2010)

Why would you sign a contract and now have a problem payments agreed upon?


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Freak I own my own co. I plow for both co s and one other regional. I've read your posts and really sound like your the problem more so then anyone you sub for. Every job you have you complain about. I am just sick of hearing you complain. Seriously no one here cares.


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## Silverstreak (Oct 25, 2007)

20 percent is their margin on hourly work, they get paid so much an hour and pay the sub 20 percent less they will make a little more if they take care of the salting themselves if youre a small outfit without spreaders, and some branches cover small storms themselves and call you in once you get 2" or when they need the help some branches have more snow work than others so sometimes this varies. the branch i worked for had 95 contracts with 11 plow trucks, and they took care of id say 55 of them without any sub help

but as far as paying salaries, most branches actually lose money in the months of december and january paying the bills & salaries until the spring ops begin in mid to late feb, but its the summer maintenance where they make their money


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## kenworth (Nov 23, 2011)

*Bfs*

Ok,
it seems that I have your attention now , a little about my company then the facts,
in business for over 20 years i consider my self one of the bigger contractors in our area,
8 dump trucks 4 are tri axles all are late model pick up trucks with plows, and 14 pieces of equipment ranging from skid steers,to large wheel loaders 4 yd buckets and 18 ft pushers no toys here, skid steer snow blowers, 6 excavators, bulldozers ETC.. 4 salt spreaders 200 tons of salt on hand 300 tons of sand on hand at my shop 600 gallon liquid de icer, 
Last year brickman offered me some contracts in my area yea the pricing was low, because we serviced one box stores they offered me 3 years ago for more money, but i took the contracts any way after bumping them up a little, no real problems to speak of the area managers/reps were happy and the managers of the locations we serviced as well, with the service we provided. Giving the winter we had last year it put allot of the smaller guys in a bad spot they just could not keep up with the storms, this year they sent me the new cut sheets and asked for pre salting and the pricing did not go up, we settled on an ok increase, they sent me the renewal with the updated pricing and i signed them, spoke the the rep i was dealing with, and found out there was a new rep in my area, we took care of the oct 29 snow storm on a per push extra price. 2 weeks went by and was still waiting for contracts to come back to me signed i spoke with BFS several times and they said there were running behind but i have the accounts and will have the contracts back with in a week or so, even spoke to their compliance dept, they told me the same
. Now on NOV. 23 i get a call from the new area rep.and he said the gave the contracts to another contractor,Do you think I was PISSED, I made some calls and found out they found a smaller company and gave him my pricing and said can you do better than these numbers, Look guys we have all been in business for a while and we know snow plowing is blood money, and this is not the way I run my business and this is wrong what they did.....that's why I put out the original post


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

They called me to do a big box retailer in my area, and offered less than 1/4 of what I did the store for two years ago. When I told him what they were offering wouldn't even cover my fuel,labor and salt costs, he said he was authorized to double what he offered, still making it less than half, of what it went for two years ago. Nationals will be the death of this business. It seems when one fails, three more come in to take its place, and each time the prices are less.


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## kenworth (Nov 23, 2011)

yes that is what i am talking about, we need to all stick together and get there prices higher making it fair for all of us who are doing the work, many guys are under paid with these nationals and do not even know it !!!!!!!!!!!!!! only if they knew what they could have been making on the same contracts with out a middle man


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## tjlands (Sep 29, 2005)

I am with you ,
problem is there are far to many contractors that will work for them for nothing.

And most will take their first offer, thinking they will "lose it".

I have had Nationals come back to me with double the original offer.


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## NickT (Feb 1, 2011)

Subscribed.....


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## lbfmd (Dec 26, 2008)

even if every national went out of business tomorrow prices would take a long time if ever to return to were they were 10+ years ago, just not gonna happen. You have to remember if for some reason everyone stuck together and they all closed, these customers are still under the impression that these low rates are what they should be paying. The other coin to all this is what are the nationals actually charging??? just because they want to offer you $50 for a lot that used to be $100 does not mean thats what they are charging, heck they maybe be charging $95.00. you just never know but bottom line is there will always be someone taking the work and for them it may work. As for reading there contracts you might as well wipe your butt with them, they are all slanted in there direction ( and as a business person why not??) so if your comfortable with that go ahead and sign them just remember they are not going to do ANYTHING that will expose them to any liability or action,. the best thing that I think maybe happening, imo, is insurance companies not isnuring these places. We are in the process of doing our renews 5 of the 8 companies that my agent contacted would not insure snow work if done with a management company ( they all requested copies of any snow contract) the other 3 said they would review each contract case by case. I think that the insurance companies are going to be the game changer for these companies, if you can't get the insurance you can't do the work even if you want to.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Brickman local worked out real good for us. Good managers, good terms and good enough pricing. I got some offers from BFS and I laughed lowes stores for 50% of what I was dong the same sites for the year prior. For the record I did here 20% profit on the seasonals that they sub the entire account.


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## NickT (Feb 1, 2011)

Bumping this bad boy


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## BillyRgn (Jan 28, 2004)

If people keep signing to do the work for low rates nothing will ever change. unfortunately the way the econamey is the customer only cares about price not quality and loyalty.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

I want to add another point to all this.

Locally, there is some larger companies doing local work that are driving down the prices on services. It seems to be a mad scramble to lower prices, just to raise volume in order to bring in money, thus trying to take any market share that is left. That and it makes me wonder if they are trying to lower prices to push out smaller operations that can't function that cheap.

I've lost out on more bids than I can count because other local bids were ungodly low, generally being more than half of the upper three bids, from other reasonable, well established contractors. Not only is this happening in winter work, but across the board for landscaping install and full grounds maintenance.

You can blame Nationals all you want, but in the end, this market as a whole is dictating prices for services. Sales are down for everyone, cutting cost and overhead everywhere is the name of the game. As mentioned before, 20%-30% margins are now down to 2%-3% for *Everyone*.

Heck, even a Jeweler I know said that they used to make 40%-50%, and now he's down to a 2% profit margin.

Personally I'm done for now on trying to bank on snow services. But what I will do is hedge myself accordingly to still be somewhat profitable and to keep cash flow in the winter. I will also keep my customers who I priced well (without having to raise their prices in the last 5 years), and who have requested me for quality of services.

Though my B F S account isn't quit as profitable as one might want it to be, it still makes me money and is seasonal, so it hedges me against a light winter.

The end goal of this economy is to cut a profit, keep your debts low to none, and be prepared to come out of the gate strong when this economy comes back around like it always does.

.....


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## kenworth (Nov 23, 2011)

*bfs*

Also this year one of the nationals tried offering me a B.J. wholsale club on a per inch basis the lot is around 5.3 acres and there offer for 1-4 inch plow price was lower than $250, we figured out if we get the ave. snow fall this winter you would get paid around $ 6,500 for all the plowing????????? and there shoveling price for 6,800 sq. ft. of walks was $ 29 per inch why be in buisness ?????????


tjlands;1357918 said:


> I am with you ,
> problem is there are far to many contractors that will work for them for nothing.
> 
> And most will take their first offer, thinking they will "lose it".
> ...


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Sometimes when I'm alone I pretend I'm a carrot.


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## NickT (Feb 1, 2011)

BossPlow2010;1360023 said:


> Sometimes when I'm alone I pretend I'm a carrot.


Okaaaaaay......?


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

kenworth;1359885 said:


> Also this year one of the nationals tried offering me a B.J. wholsale club on a per inch basis the lot is around 5.3 acres and there offer for 1-4 inch plow price was lower than $250, we figured out if we get the ave. snow fall this winter you would get paid around $ 6,500 for all the plowing????????? and there shoveling price for 6,800 sq. ft. of walks was $ 29 per inch why be in buisness ?????????


Who got the BJ's? I bid on my local one.


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

BFS is shady just like every other one out there. The only difference is they pay more. I did some banks for them last season and they weaseled out of paying me the final payment on my contract for damage even though there was no damage. I took over on Dec 7 2010 in the middle of a storm so I didn't have time to take pictures of the before. Needless to say I got screwed over. It's my own fault. I should have taken pics before but I didn't even get the contract until Dec 1st. (it was all piled under snow then too). Moral of the story, all NMC's are the same more or less. Read your contract have it reviewed and stick to it. They were very good about paying me but didn't ever pay me the full amount only partial amounts every few weeks. I am no longer working for any NMC's anymore ever again. Lesson learned.


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## kenworth (Nov 23, 2011)

Same story here we did some banks last year and they tried to tell us we dammaged 3 signs totaling $ 2,500 we noticed them dammaged before a storm and brought it to there attention and they said that it was out responsibility(oh yea i forgot no one else all winter with a plow drives into a bank or a atm ever only us HAHAHA) but we fixed them any way or we would have not made any profit on that branch


MahonLawnCare;1360207 said:


> BFS is shady just like every other one out there. The only difference is they pay more. I did some banks for them last season and they weaseled out of paying me the final payment on my contract for damage even though there was no damage. I took over on Dec 7 2010 in the middle of a storm so I didn't have time to take pictures of the before. Needless to say I got screwed over. It's my own fault. I should have taken pics before but I didn't even get the contract until Dec 1st. (it was all piled under snow then too). Moral of the story, all NMC's are the same more or less. Read your contract have it reviewed and stick to it. They were very good about paying me but didn't ever pay me the full amount only partial amounts every few weeks. I am no longer working for any NMC's anymore ever again. Lesson learned.


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## kenworth (Nov 23, 2011)

Not sure but i will find out next storm, i know he wont be buying any new equipment for what they are paying him but i did see a guy in there with what look like to be a 1980 's bronco with a rusted plow parked in back


lilweeds;1360146 said:


> Who got the BJ's? I bid on my local one.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

NickT;1360103 said:


> Okaaaaaay......?


It was a joke, 
Kinda like
"do you have prince Albert in a can"


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## NickT (Feb 1, 2011)

BossPlow2010;1360313 said:


> It was a joke,
> Kinda like
> "do you have prince Albert in a can"


Yeah man funny as hell just didn't know what to type at the time. Just to be reading the thread and have that line in their was pure comedic genius


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

kenworth;1360277 said:


> Same story here we did some banks last year and they tried to tell us we dammaged 3 signs totaling $ 2,500 we noticed them dammaged before a storm and brought it to there attention and they said that it was out responsibility(oh yea i forgot no one else all winter with a plow drives into a bank or a atm ever only us HAHAHA) but we fixed them any way or we would have not made any profit on that branch


Yeah they never gave me a chance to even know what they were talking about. The next thing I knew I got some email from the MD office saying they were replaced and we had "service failures" (we had zero) so the cost of the repairs and supposed failures was more than they owed me so they said they owed me nothing go pound sand basically.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

I heard a rumor the other day that Brickman is pulling out of a couple of major cities this coming spring, Minneapolis/ St. Paul being one of them. 

Not sure if its true or not, but thought I'd pass it along..


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## Marek (Nov 16, 2005)

They will never leave our area. Earlier this year I had heard that they were going to have to downsize some due to the H2B restrictions . They could not possibly cover all there properties in any area they are in with out thier hispanic workforce.


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