# 145,000 SQ' Lot Need help pricing



## S.P.EversConstr (Aug 24, 2010)

I've been asked to price out a Shaws Market in Boston, Ma. They are looking to have the lot plowed and walk ways shoveled at a trigger point of 1". There are approximatly 500 parking spots with some islands in front of the building and the side walk is 150'x6'. Both the sidewalk and the lot need to be salted. 

This is my first commerical lot and have no idea how to price it out. The management asked for a price for 1"-3", 3"-6", 6"-12 " of snow for plowing and a seperate charge for shoveling. They also asked for a price for calcium chloride, sodium chloride, or magic salt, per application. Along with the requests they asked for a seasonal charge for plowing, sidewalk charge, and salting. If you could please give me some advice that would be great. Thank you.


----------



## S.P.EversConstr (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm using a 06 F250 with a 8' fisher blade. Also renting a backhoe for $400 for the day when rented.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

Before I spent $400 a day for the backhoe I would buy a better plow for your truck. Your truck can handle a lot more plow then that. Either a V or a wing plow. I know you East coast boys think Fisher is the only plow made so either a XLS or Vee with wings would be the way to go.

Can't see giving them a price for 6-12". That is a large gap and 12" in a lot is way more then 7 or 8".

A 1-3 and 3-6 I would price at 3 hours and 4 hours. That lot is just over 3 acres. Can you get all those different kinds of ice control in bulk or do you have to buy bagged. I would think 3,000lbs per application. Sidewalks would only be an hour to clear with a 30" blower.


----------



## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

S.P.EversConstr;1062382 said:


> I'm using a 06 F250 with a 8' fisher blade. Also renting a backhoe for $400 for the day when rented.


What are you going to push with the loader? Box? Plow? Box plow?

Do you have the capabilities and access to buy and spread all of those chemicals?

What if the loader is already rented out to someone? Then what?

Perhaps you are perfectly prepared, but a 3 acre lot is a big jump in to the commercial arena.

I agree with CET. a 6" gap is a bit much. send it to them as 6-9 and 9-12.


----------



## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

S.P.EversConstr;1062381 said:


> I've been asked to price out a Shaws Market in Boston, Ma. They are looking to have the lot plowed and walk ways shoveled at a trigger point of 1". There are approximatly 500 parking spots with some islands in front of the building and the side walk is 150'x6'. Both the sidewalk and the lot need to be salted.
> 
> This is my first commerical lot and have no idea how to price it out. The management asked for a price for 1"-3", 3"-6", 6"-12 " of snow for plowing and a seperate charge for shoveling. They also asked for a price for calcium chloride, sodium chloride, or magic salt, per application. Along with the requests they asked for a seasonal charge for plowing, sidewalk charge, and salting. If you could please give me some advice that would be great. Thank you.


That lot is 3.5 acres or so. You can plow that lot with a truck, with either an xls or wideout no problem. No need to a loader on that lot. Good drive, good truck and plow combo and that lot is done in 2 hours in a 2-4 inch dropping.Good Luck


----------



## S.P.EversConstr (Aug 24, 2010)

Yea im sorry it was 6-9" 9-12". Also the backhoe I bring on the job to pile the snow higher maybe not every storm. But anyways yea I would love a v-plow but money tight. So what im getting on this is to price it by the hour. When you say 4 hours it "might" take say for 1-3" is it now say an extra hour for 3-6" and another for 6-12" and so on? Yea it is a big lot for a first timer for commerical and do you think the equipment I have will work say just my truck and a snow blower for the lot. Here the address just go to maps.live.com to check it out and tell me ball park how much I should charge. Its the big redish brown building. 45 Morrissey Boulevard Dorchester MA 02125 . Thanks guys


----------



## S.P.EversConstr (Aug 24, 2010)

I have a spreader and the backhoe, well I have a good connection with the rental place and they have one on resever for me all the time. I rent a lot of equipment from them.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

If money is tight then buy a set of after market wings.
Are you getting paid by the hour or per plow.
We do a plaza double that size. The main problem you are going to have is daytime storms. People drive over the snow all day. On the wet snow it really gets packed down. People kick the wet slushy snow off their car and then drive over it packing that down even more. The older Fisher plows have a poor attack angle. On packed snow they have a hard time scraping it to the ground. I'm not bashing your plow but I have a 9'6" Fisher V old style and I hate it. Works great of fresh snow and they are built like a tank and will push anything they just don't scrape well. If you are allowed to pre salt this will take care of some of the problem but you will need a heavy salt after.
$400 for the backhoe is a lot for 1 day. On that lot you might have a hard time billing $700 for the day. Then you have fuel, operator, your time taking it back and picking it up. Even if you knew someone who had one and wanted to spend 4 hours in there for $500 you would be father ahead.


----------



## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

also consider, what is your back up plan if you're truck breaks down? commercial lots don't care about your tranny problems, or a broken plow mount, etc etc.


----------



## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

I'd STRONGLY suggest you take the address out... Your going to have every lurker on here trying to take that away from you..... If people want to help you just email them the address and they can google earth it.....

I agree with cet about the old fishers.... I have 2 extreme vs and love them..... they scrape very well and have a different attack angle then the old ezv 's ... buying cutting edges once a year for 300-400 each sucks though....

What is your back up plan if/when something fails?
Can you get all those deicing products?
What are you sporeading them with?
Are you having someone shovel for you?
Employee or sub for shoveling?
Do you have an extra truck to help duing a blizzard or if you get behind?

You say money is tight..... When you get up to these sized commercials (even though 3 accs isn't too bad) you will have more costs associated with doing these type of lots. You need to expect to spend more $ (at least this is what I've experienced). So spend the money now if you get the lot and purchase a v or expandable plow (Try to find a good used one) These things will save you tons of time compared to a 8 straight blade....

Good Luck


----------



## S.P.EversConstr (Aug 24, 2010)

I have a back up plan with another truck that works for me whos doing all the residential. There will be also another guy with me shoveling/snowblowing for $12/hr. Also I get the salt up front.

Cet. They want a price for 1-3" 3-6" and so on, for plowing seperate for shoveling, and seperate for salting. Then they want a seperate price for seasonal for plowing then a seperate for shoveling and a seperate for salting. We can also do a presalt on the storm. Very true on the backhoe.


----------



## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

is your shoveler a sub or a employee?


----------



## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

S.P.EversConstr;1062609 said:


> I have a back up plan with another truck that works for me whos doing all the residential. There will be also another guy with me shoveling/snowblowing for $12/hr. Also I get the salt up front.
> 
> Cet. They want a price for 1-3" 3-6" and so on, for plowing seperate for shoveling, and seperate for salting. Then they want a seperate price for seasonal for plowing then a seperate for shoveling and a seperate for salting. We can also do a presalt on the storm. Very true on the backhoe.


backhoe rental should be between $450 and $600 for one week, not one day. you should research you area for more exact rental rates but $400 per day is way over priced, unless you have a dozen lots that this machine can go to.


----------



## S.P.EversConstr (Aug 24, 2010)

the shoveler is an employee paid $12/hr


----------



## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

S.P.EversConstr;1062674 said:


> the shoveler is an employee paid $12/hr


Heres more costs.... Workers Comp, payroll taxes, and fees.... make sure your arss and their arss is covered


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I looked on Google Earth and the main part of that lot looks easy to me.Spend the money and at least buy a cheap pair of wings. I think you can get them for $200 approx. 
1-3 3 hours, 3-6 4 hours, 6-9 5 hours and 9-12 6 hours. If the sidewalk guy is with you then he will be there as long as you are. I'm sure he will be finished way before you so you will need how to price the walks. Salting the walks is 100lbs at most and that would be heavy but you would need to use a spreader or you will use way more by hand. For the parking lot if you are using bagged material the price is going to be high especially with the treated salts. I buy treated in bulk and I bet I could buy and spread cheaper then you can even buy. If you are using a tailgate spreader then the side walk guy can load it for you.
Plug your hourly rate in and there is your price.

Have you phoned for insurance yet. I would do that before anything else.

My plowing times might be a bit low but for the last 8 years I have only used winged plows and they are faster.


----------



## S.P.EversConstr (Aug 24, 2010)

Yea I have talk to my insurance and everything all set. Thank you for your advice CET helps a lot.


----------



## DJM2011 (Jul 11, 2010)

*1-2.9" 3-5.99"*

Do not ever sign a contract or offer one that has 1-3 3-6 6-9 what happens if you get 20 storms at 6 inches. are you charging the 3-6 or the 6-9 you could loose 50 percent of billable storms.

Just my 1-2 2-3 cents


----------



## S.P.EversConstr (Aug 24, 2010)

Well i feel the same way but in my contract it says the driver determins the amount on the ground and that what he says is final. They have agreed on those terms


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

He might be suggesting 1-3, 3.1-6, 6.1-9 and so on. Just make sure on your bill you put 3.5 or even 4.


----------



## DJM2011 (Jul 11, 2010)

S.P.EversConstr;1062917 said:


> Well i feel the same way but in my contract it says the driver determins the amount on the ground and that what he says is final. They have agreed on those terms


I guess if the client agrees that is one thing. I would also make sure the service sheet or route sheet or service tag the driver should be filling out, reflects the actual snow fall. and that if its questioned, a weather service or an agreed site is used for snow measurement totals per storm, or per day, or per hour.

Also if your asked to show all your drivers measurements and one always seems higher then the other, that's going to be a problem.

Not to get off topic for the thread. But when I saw the ole 1-3 3-6 6-9 I just felt something should be said.

20 storms at 260 a push or 390 a push is a HUGE difference. :crying:


----------



## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

My price for MY area would be like this for a small storm: Plow 1-3" $300 and salt lot $360. Sidewalks shovel $40-60 and salt at around $50....

Not sure what your area is like. Probably could go for a bit more. But I have lost bids to big companies before that can spread salt for around $0.10/lb. Hard to compete with that.


----------



## viper881 (Jan 14, 2009)

Depending on the place. If you have to stake snow or move snow off property they pay you for that. You renting a backhoe for 400 bucks a time should be their expense if its just for there lot and they are telling you when to stake snow.


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

i think its safe to say most people on here would agree that a truck can do about 1 acre per hour depending on the lot, truck, driver and conditions. so that should give you your price

as for the 1 truck deal - are they willing to wait 4 hours to have the lot cleared? what are there specs? i had a place that opened at 6 am. contract said if the snow stops by 4:30 they expect it cleared in time to not interfear with there work. 90 mins- so just be sure they are ok with the 4 hour deal.

3-4 acres really inst enough to dedicate a truck and a machine. i would pick on one or the other to be used.

a back hoe will have limited stacking ablity for a 3-4 acre parking lot, assuming that most of the snow is getting put all in one spot? a wheel loader is a better choice for stacking. if its getting spread out more, than a back hoe will have no problems.

which brings me to the next point, does all the snow have to go in one place, or are there multiple places to push to? that might determine if a truck or a machine with a box blade is best.

just my honest 2 cents of advise - this sounds like too big a job possibly. If your asking for pricing info, renting a machine, and cant put up enough coin to buy a plow- odds are im guessing this would be your first "larger" account.??

let me play this cenerio out for you, and if you can give an answer at the end that still allows the property to be serviced by you, then i would bid it...if not i would walk away. taking on too big will cause you nothing but problems unless 100% of things go correct - which they never do.

1. dec 1st 6 inch snow fall hits - need a machine to stack it, need a truck and trailer to get the machine there at 2 am, plus a truck to plow (o and dont blow off yoru other accounts) 
2 tons of salt needed on the lot- got the coin for that?

dec4th 3 more inches - 
dec 6th- ice storm - 6 tons
dec 12 your trans goes out 2 k repair cost , subs charging you $150 per hour to help you finish your route
dec15 - truck still in the shop, subs again - and yoru shoveler wants to be paid the 40 hours he has worked

....dec what ever - more storms and expenses

Jan 13th - finally get yoru first payment or work done on dec 1st. and by the way the lady that cuts the checks will be out of town the next 2 weeks on vacation.
Jan 28 - dec 6th check is recieved.

just something to think about , becasue this is the reality when dealing with larger commercial lots


----------



## mike custom (Aug 29, 2009)

elite1msmith;1065599 said:


> i think its safe to say most people on here would agree that a truck can do about 1 acre per hour depending on the lot, truck, driver and conditions. so that should give you your price
> 
> as for the 1 truck deal - are they willing to wait 4 hours to have the lot cleared? what are there specs? i had a place that opened at 6 am. contract said if the snow stops by 4:30 they expect it cleared in time to not interfear with there work. 90 mins- so just be sure they are ok with the 4 hour deal.
> 
> ...


i couldn't have put it better myself......


----------

