# Church/Preschool



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

I have a Church/Preschool with a 300,000 sq ft lot. Basically all open. 450’ of sidewalk. We have an average of 70” seasonal snow fall. Looking for help on a seasonal bid. Plowing and salt


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Take the time you estimate to plow and shovel, multiply that by the number of trips you estimate and you have your plowing number.

Same for salt, except you need to estimate how much salt is needed and your markup on salt. And whether you are using bagged or bulk.

Sound vague? 

Has more detail than your question.


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

I have bulk salt. 170 a yard. What is vague? How much would someone with 70” of yearly fall charge for 300k of plowing? I am looking to see what are people are charging so I can understand if I am competitive or not.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

pushpile said:


> I have bulk salt. 170 a yard. What is vague? How much would someone with 70” of yearly fall charge for 300k of plowing? I am looking to see what are people are charging so I can understand if I am competitive or not.


You're looking for someone to do the estimate for you. Don't be competitive, bid to cover your costs and make money... There's a lot of hacks out there that would probably do that for 15-20k for the season... They can have fun!


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Seasonal with salt?

Without salt?

How many times do you estimate you will provide services? 

Location? 

Plowing with a half tonne and 7.5' plow? Or a loader with a 16' pusher?

Trigger depth?

How much salt do you estimate per application? 

I'm sure I'm missing a few considerations. If you have to ask what you're missing, this size account might be more than you can handle. No offense, but if you don't even know what info to provide how can you know how to price it?


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You're looking for someone to do the estimate for you.


Is there something wrong with that?


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

2” trigger, salt after plow every time. 9.2’ v blade


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

pushpile said:


> 2” trigger, salt after plow every time. 9.2’ v blade


That’s a lot of pavement for that plow.
On a 2” storm, you’re going to be there for about 3 hours


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

pushpile said:


> 2” trigger, salt after plow every time. 9.2’ v blade


Any salting if under 2"?


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

I would salt sidewalks and major drive lanes


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

The place isn’t too busy, so I won’t have to worry about stacking snow


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

pushpile said:


> The place isn’t too busy, so I won’t have to worry about stacking snow


2" of snow on 300k sqr ft of property is approx. 350 50,000 cubic feet of snow. You have a spot on the property to move that snow to without stacking? What about if there are 10" of snow? 24"?


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

300,000 sq f = 6.8ac
So close to 5hrs+~.just to plow
Add sidewalks. 
and their open Christmas.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

cwren2472 said:


> 2" of snow on 300k sqr ft of property is approx. 350 cubic feet of snow. You have a spot on the property to move that snow to without stacking? What about if there are 10" of snow? 24"?


Plowsite math, 50,000 cubic feet


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

There is large spot of the lot not utilized. I would not need to stack. If so I have a bobcat.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Plowsite math, 50,000 cubic feet


Whoops. You're right.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BossPlow2010 said:


> That’s a lot of pavement for that plow.
> On a 2” storm, you’re going to be there for about 3 hours


2 acres an hour! WOW! In fact ShamWOW!


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Ajlawn1 said:


> 2 acres an hour! WOW! In fact ShamWOW!


What’s wrong with that, there’s guys that have done more in less time, like this fella.



Mark Oomkes said:


> I've done 8-10 acre lots in 2-3 hours. With a truck. Wide open.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

BossPlow2010 said:


> What’s wrong with that, there’s guys that have done more in less time, like this fella.


the rest of the story,
A “8611 LP and 16' Ebling.”

so they were two pieces of equipment….
The rest is Plowsite math.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Hydromaster said:


> so they were two pieces of equipment….


Not to mention the tool behind the wheel


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Not to mention the tool behind the wheel


SnapOn tool?


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> SnapOn tool?


Sure.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> SnapOn tool?


Only in Wooster...


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Seasonal with salt?
> 
> Without salt?
> 
> ...


Seasonal with salt


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Take the time you estimate to plow and shovel, multiply that by the number of trips you estimate and you have your plowing number.
> 
> Same for salt, except you need to estimate how much salt is needed and your markup on salt. And whether you are using bagged or bulk.
> 
> ...


I have sent a bid already. I priced it at 1940 per plow/shovel/salt. Seasonal for 25 pushes


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You're looking for someone to do the estimate for you. Don't be competitive, bid to cover your costs and make money... There's a lot of hacks out there that would probably do that for 15-20k for the season... They can have fun!


I have sent an estimate. I thought this page would offer up some help, I didn’t realize I wasn’t allowed to ask for that.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

pushpile said:


> I have sent an estimate. I thought this page would offer up some help, I didn’t realize I wasn’t allowed to ask for that.


Well if you have it post it. You'll get your critique of it a lot easier then playing 20 questions with everyone...


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Well if you have it post it. You'll get your critique of it a lot easier then playing 20 questions with everyone...


Boy, all of your are so unhelpful.

OP, personally I'd price it at $48,500/season for that.


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Well if you have it post it. You'll get your critique of it a lot easier then playing 20 questions with everyone...


Ok, I posted it.


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

pushpile said:


> Ok, I posted it.


Where?


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

cwren2472 said:


> Boy, all of your are so unhelpful.
> 
> OP, personally I'd price it at $48,500/season for that.


Ya that’s what I sent out. I just am trying to see where others would be at as far as pricing. Obviously someone else’s margins are going to be different than mine. But seeing what other people would bid a lot similarly is also good knowledge to have.


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Well if you have it post it. You'll get your critique of it a lot easier then playing 20 questions with everyone...


I’m just trying to see if others pricing is similar. Honestly not trying to be annoying here, I understand I’m new to the site so it may be a little forward.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

pushpile said:


> I’m just trying to see if others pricing is similar. Honestly not trying to be annoying here, I understand I’m new to the site so it may be a little forward.


If you started out saying, I quoted this lot at XYZ for this service, including where you’re located and give us the other particulars of the job
What equipment and you’re dedicating to it what equipment consists of, and maybe someone would throw you a ballpark number.

But not knowing things like what your overhead is, what you need the charge to actually make a living/profit on this lot are the numbers only you know.

Numbers can vary related to a geographical area also


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

Hydromaster said:


> If you started out saying, I quoted this lot at XYZ for this service, including where you’re located and give us the other particulars of the job
> What equipment and you’re dedicating to it what equipment consists of, and maybe someone would throw you a ballpark number.
> 
> But not knowing things like what your overhead is, what you need the charge to actually make a living/profit on this lot are the numbers only you know.
> ...


That’s basically why I ask. Everyone here is going to have different equipment and different bids. That’s what im trying to see. How mine compares to others.


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

Hydromaster said:


> If you started out saying, I quoted this lot at XYZ for this service, including where you’re located and give us the other particulars of the job
> What equipment and you’re dedicating to it what equipment consists of, and maybe someone would throw you a ballpark number.
> 
> But not knowing things like what your overhead is, what you need the charge to actually make a living/profit on this lot are the numbers only you know.
> ...


70” of snow seasonal. 25 pushes with 2” trigger. Salt after plow. 450’ of sidewalk and salt. I would think people should have some basic numbers on it. As that’s what I’m curious about, what people are doing lots like these for.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

pushpile said:


> 70” of snow seasonal. 25 pushes with 2” trigger. Salt after plow. 450’ of sidewalk and salt. I would think people should have some basic numbers on it. As that’s what I’m curious about, what people are doing lots like these for.


How many salting events are you thinking, and how many plowable events?
If I was bidding that size open lot around here, we’d be between 30-35 just in salt.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

pushpile said:


> I have sent an estimate. I thought this page would offer up some help, I didn’t realize I wasn’t allowed to ask for that.


You're allowed to axe. 

Butt Hydro covered the rest. 

So it isn't really going to matter what my bid is because my bulk salt is significantly lower than yours. 

Also, while this is stupid there is nothing I can do about it if I want to remain in bizness; I wouldn't plow it with a truck and I can't price it like I used to. Figure X hours for a truck, then re-engineer the job by doing it with a loader or tractor and get it done faster and make some cash. I have to price it at what it will take with a loader if that is what I am going to plow it with. 

But I'm not touching a 7 acre lot with a pickup as normal so I'm going to bid it way lower than you. 7 acres is about a 2 hour job for my loader. 3 for a tractor with a Plow/AgriMaxx. For sidewalk salt I figure a minimum of 1 bag of deicer no matter what. I try to get a minimum of 1 hour for walks as well. Separate crew for plowing, sidewalk, and salting. Average of 3 tons of salt for the entire lot. 

So do you live out west with relatively dry snow due to low humidity where less salt can be used? Or east where more is needed due to higher moisture content and cloudier? 

All these things make a difference. That's why I said (and still do) say you are being very vague. Give us something to work with and some of us might give you a range. I'm not giving exact pricing because I don't know who is lurking.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> How many salting events are you thinking, and how many plowable events?
> If I was bidding that size open lot around here, we’d be between 30-35 just in salt.


70" for an average is going to be more than that. More like 45-50, possibly more. But again, we don't have enough info.


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You're allowed to axe.
> 
> Butt Hydro covered the rest.
> 
> ...


I’m west Michigan. They only utilize a portion of this lot. So salt would really only be needed for about 200,000 sq ft


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

BossPlow2010 said:


> How many salting events are you thinking, and how many plowable events?
> If I was bidding that size open lot around here, we’d be between 30-35 just in salt.


I figured 30 full salt


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

pushpile said:


> I’m west Michigan. They only utilize a portion of this lot. So salt would really only be needed for about 200,000 sq ft


Are you only plowing 200k then?
Here’s something to take note of, and it’s not just you, so don’t take it personally.

West Michigan, I presume you’re getting lake effect, and storms that last all day/ winter, we don’t get that in Detroit, so I can’t really help you with that portion of it.


when asking how much to bid, you need to include as much information as you can, redacting tid bits doesn’t help you in the end.
it’s the internet, so short of telling us the property address, is the information that’s needed, satellite views help blurring any identifiable information.


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Are you only plowing 200k then?
> Here’s something to take note of, and it’s not just you, so don’t take it personally.
> 
> West Michigan, I presume you’re getting lake effect, and storms that last all day/ winter, we don’t get that in Detroit, so I can’t really help you with that portion of it.
> ...


Only salting about 200. I will be plowing 300


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

pushpile said:


> Only salting about 200. I will be plowing 300


He has trouble reading sometimes...


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

So you bid it at 48k?


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

My retail 5.5 acres is less then your quote and we average about the same as far as inches.

You'll be fine and make good money as we almost treat this one as a "Zero Tolerance" lot (or medical lot since someone will complain about ZT phrase.) I also have machine close so it doesn't take long. This is where a lot of variables come into play as far as what you're using and so on...

I can do it a little cheaper since we have 30 acres across the street we do and can whip it out quickly...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I can do it a little cheaper


Lessons from Woosterville...



Ajlawn1 said:


> can whip it out quickly...


More lessons from Woosterton...5 minutes 1 handed in a blizzard?


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

BossPlow2010 said:


> So you bid it at 48k?


Yes


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

pushpile said:


> I figured 30 full salt


Could be pretty close. There will be more partials though.

$170/tonne in West Michigan...dang!


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

Ajlawn1 said:


> My retail 5.5 acres is less then your quote and we average about the same as far as inches.
> 
> You'll be fine and make good money as we almost treat this one as a "Zero Tolerance" lot (or medical lot since someone will complain about ZT phrase.) I also have machine close so it doesn't take long. This is where a lot of variables come into play as far as what you're using and so on...
> 
> I can do it a little cheaper since we have 30 acres across the street we do and can whip it out quickly...


Cheaper by a wide margin?


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Could be pretty close. There will be more partials though.
> 
> $170/tonne in West Michigan...dang!


That’s what I thought


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Ajlawn1 said:


> He has trouble reading sometimes...


I appreciate the credit, but it’s all the time.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> More lessons from Woosterton...5 minutes 1 handed in a blizzard?


16 footer so at least 4-5 trucks easily replaced...


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> 2 acres an hour! WOW! In fact ShamWOW!


Western wide out XL and a GMC 2500


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Western wide out XL and a GMC 2500


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> View attachment 257316


I forgot the dragpro it makes all the difference


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

Ajlawn1 said:


> 16 footer so at least 4-5 trucks easily replaced...


Ya so I’m not gonna count these chickens on hatching. I’ve done a lot of asphalt repair for this place. Management is hard to deal with. They asked me for a bid with no details on what they needed for services. So I bid it at what I wanted, more than likely I will be severely undercut.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

pushpile said:


> Ya so I’m not gonna count these chickens on hatching. I’ve done a lot of asphalt repair for this place. Management is hard to deal with. They asked me for a bid with no details on what they needed for services. So I bid it at what I wanted, more than likely I will be severely undercut.


Hence the hacks remark... I've heard of seasonal as low as $2500-3k acre in years past...

Sometimes you get guys going after seasonals and being low just for the "guaranteed money".

Heard about some larger Chiraq companies doing that...


----------



## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> What’s wrong with that, there’s guys that have done more in less time, like this fella.


I've done more than 2 acres/hour with a 8-10 XLS but I may have not been speed restricted...


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> 2" of snow on 300k sqr ft of property is approx. 350 50,000 cubic feet of snow. You have a spot on the property to move that snow to without stacking? What about if there are 10" of snow? 24"?


You didn't account for the snow compressing / getting denser while plowing. That 2" / 50k cu ft of snow on the level will be reduced to probably 5-10k cu ft depending on moisture content.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> 2 acres an hour! WOW! In fact ShamWOW!


I figure 2acres / hr up to 4" for a decent operator in a pickup with a 9-10' plow in a open lot. I had a rectangular open 2acre lot I was clearing up to 4" in 40min. 
Biggest issue with large open lots in a pickup is you're limited to how much you can windrow before you have to "dozer" push the windrow so you can continue windrowing.


----------



## pushpile (3 mo ago)

BUFF said:


> I figure 2acres / hr up to 4" for a decent operator in a pickup with a 9-10' plow in a open lot. I had a rectangular open 2acre lot I was clearing up to 4" in 40min.
> Good thing is it is ten minutes from home. So I could plow with a storm. If they sign I’ll have a truck and helper dedicated to it.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

For one pickup that's a lot of ground, you mentioned you had a skid and you may want to think about putting a pusher or plow on the front of it to deal with "dozing" windrows and plowing with your helper running it or the pickup.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BUFF said:


> I figure 2acres / hr up to 4" for a decent operator in a pickup with a 9-10' plow in a open lot. I had a rectangular open 2acre lot I was clearing up to 4" in 40min.
> Biggest issue with large open lots in a pickup is you're limited to how much you can windrow before you have to "dozer" push the windrow so you can continue windrowing.


Yeah I don't disagree, but the window mess can be a real challenge as you said. I think I did 3-4 acres in an hour with a muni truck just going in circles... had a massive windrow for the loader to deal with...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

We run into one of the churches we service. We can go in circles around the building and get roughly 2 sides done utilizing the circle method, but the south side is quite a bit larger and quite a big windrow builds up.


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> We run into one of the churches we service. We can go in circles around the building and get roughly 2 sides done utilizing the circle method, but the south side is quite a bit larger and quite a big windrow builds up.


That's how I do my big storage facility. 
Open up a lot of ground real quick.


----------



## CCSnow (Jan 25, 2016)

Those specs are fairly close to the buildings I service. We have 450 feet of side walk at one building about 200 at the other 1/4 mile away. One lot is 3.5 acres other is 2.5 acres. Before I started doing the work we paid about $37,000 a year. That was 5 years ago though so prices have gone up I’m sure. They always seemed to use 2 trucks. I use a skid steer for both now and the lots are wide open where I can plow both directions. The trucks always plowed in one direction then backed up.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Ha! or down... Wallyworlds used to be in the 80's now 40's....

I was thinking he might be 5-10k heavy...


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Lurking...








Mark Oomkes said:


> I've done 8-10 acre lots in 2-3 hours. With a truck. Wide open


"Wide open" is the only way to run any piece of equipment


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mr.Markus said:


> Lurking...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is this why the customer always starts off with, she was running great untill?????????????


----------



## dansilich (4 mo ago)

pushpile said:


> I have a Church/Preschool with a 300,000 sq ft lot. Basically all open. 450’ of sidewalk. We have an average of 70” seasonal snow fall. Looking for help on a seasonal bid. Plowing and salt


Where are you located


----------



## dansilich (4 mo ago)

pushpile said:


> I have a Church/Preschool with a 300,000 sq ft lot. Basically all open. 450’ of sidewalk. We have an average of 70” seasonal snow fall. Looking for help on a seasonal bid. Plowing and salt


Location


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

He answered...read his posts.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

dansilich said:


> Location


Out of curiosity, what is YOUR location?


----------

