# Bidding & Estimating



## Sean Adams

Once again, like the other forums, this forum has been created to keep the site running smoothly and it gives the members a place to post information about potential jobs they are trying to land. Here people will come to this forum with the idea of helping you come up with how to charge, what to include and not include, etc... when going after that job you really want.


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## plow master

*plow master*

Hi i am new in the line in other words i want to be in the line but i dont know how to price by the hour or per push or seasonal contract and how do i give a price by the square footage or how


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## Mick

Very rarely are you going to bid by area, until you start bidding lots by the acre. There are three basic methods to bidding - Hourly, per push and seasonal. Most common is per push which I would recommend for you until you've got some experience. All methods are based on "hourly" or "how long will this take and how much do I want to make for the time spent?". Very generally, $125 an hour is common for plowing with a 7 1/2' plow with some expierence. Since most driveways, etc, take much less than an hour, you simply prorate. Don't forget "drive time" to and from the job. I bid each job as if it were the only one in the area. It's common to lose/gain jobs throughout the year, so you want to make it worthwhile if this were the only job in the neighborhood. Getting anything close to accurate estimating takes time and experience, so don't get discouraged if that "15 minute" job turns into 25 or 30. Just chaulk it up to experience. Make sure you charge more for larger amounts. A common range is 3" - 6", 6" - 9", 9" -12" and "over 12". 

Hourly is common in some places, but you would want to keep a low rate at first. Efficient plowing is an art coupled with experience. Customers would get rather upset at a beginner charging $125/hr. Seasonal contracts are best left alone until you get some customers willing to commit to three-year contracts and you get good at estimating.

This might get you started thinking, then do a "Search" using "bidding" as a keyword.


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## quietguy703

*need help*

I need help in getting some idea as how to tell a customer how much i will charge him for his drive way .. is there a per foot. rer inch rule ,I could go by?? FOR INSTANCE a 40 foot drive with 4 inches of snow verses 150 drive way same snow both drives same width. thanks for any help


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## RJ snow

*The great pricing & bidding search*

I've been reading the posts for quite a few weeks now looking to see if any real price quotes were being thrown out here on the board. Most of what i've read has been " Do a search" and after doing a search most of the threads read the same "do a search". Not for nothing plowing friends but how much would it hurt any of you to throw a price out for a 20x100 driveway for per push and per season. A general idea of what we are charging should be to our advantage. If this site was used to govern what a standard rate would be we could all make good money throughout the season. There will always be lowballers in any market. My main concern for this season is the coming fuel spikes that has been rumored for the near future. We are already seeing 2.80- 3.25 per gallon at the pumps and the folks from Wallstreet are predicting even higher as winter sets in. Now with that said I'll say this I'm going to be charging on average 20-30 a push and contracts will be averaged by those numbers figuring about 15-20 snow falls 2-3 inches or more. Lake effect snows are a problem in my area and its always a gamble to predict snowfall. What I'm hoping is that after setting up contracts for the season that my fuel costs don't double and I end up screwing myself out of profits. 
But my main point of this thread is why not use this site to our mutual benifit a set up a internet based snowplowers union kinda thing where we can govern the prices of plowing to our advantage. There's plenty of work for all out there and anyone who thinks that giving up there pricing will lose work is crazy for every one lost there are many more prospects. Unless you live in a town that is over saturated with plow trucks and business's then even still you would all profit by co-operating on a standard price so evebody makes about the same. Then it becomes a matter of your work and reliability rather than the lowballer getting alot and giving poor service. Look at what the cost of car repairs are from city to city and i'll bet they are within $5 per hour of one another coast to coast. Think about it, why play hide and seek lets unite and prosper instead.


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## Mick

RJ snow said:


> but how much would it hurt any of you to throw a price out for a 20x100 driveway for per push and per season. A general idea of what we are charging should be to our advantage. If this site was used to govern what a standard rate would be we could all make good money throughout the season.


Because it's illegal.

Because costs vary widely by states and countries (US & Canada. There also have been people on here from countries like Norway, Sweden, Germany etc) and from areas within states. Costs also vary by individual circumstances. One person's insurance rate may by three times as high as another. Therefore he has to set his rate slightly higher.

Your example of car repairs doesn't hold, either. The shop up the road from me is a lot lower per hour than the nearest GM dealer.

I know I have made some rather lengthy posts about different methods of pricing. For me to make the same post every time someone asks about pricing (several times a week at this time of year) would be ridiculous and a waste of space. But I did make it a Word document and post it periodically so it would turn up on a search. But I avoid hard numbers except in PMs where I have more information and make it personal and specific. I see some people charging $15 or $20. For me in my circumstances, I wouldn't have an account that low.

It just goes along with that saying about giving a guy a fish and he'll eat one day - teach him how to fish and he'll eat the rest of his life.


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## Chris-R

Listen to Mick. He knows what he's talking about. Also, it is illegal under Federal Law for contractors, vendors, etc. to engage in price fixing. When someone talks about a bunch of people getting together and setting a price for a specific service, they are violating the law. You must be very careful about things like that as this is a public forum. Although your intentions are good, the government wants to encourage free market pricing which is supposed to translate into the best price/service for the consumer. I'm not sure it always works that way but it surely does quite often. On the other hand, there is no violation if multiple posters tell others what they charge for a specific service. For example, you may ask how much I would charge for a 10,000 sq. ft. parking lot and I might be inclined to give you my rate and the reasons why I do it the way I do. This is ok but I surely cannot suggest that we all get together and set a specific price or rate for a 10,000 sq. ft. parking lot. I just don't want anyone to get into trouble, thus the reason for my post.


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## Lawn Care Pro's

imagine this: the low baller who would normally underbid a job by 30% all of a sudden has a fixed rate. so now that smae low baller who gives out "poor" service is now making more money for the poor serve they offer. that now leaves you out of a job. on top of that how is a company going to know which company may be right for the job. you have too remember the low low baller is almost never given the job and usually the more expencive contractor isnt either. it usually lies somewhere in the middle!


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## Mick

Lawn Care Pro's said:


> ... you have too remember the low low baller is almost never given the job and usually the more expencive contractor isnt either. it usually lies somewhere in the middle!


That's very true. I've been in situations where we would automatically throw out the highest and lowest bids.


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## Rcgm

I know companys to this day still get 5 bids take lowest and highest bid in the trash they go now they have 3 bids they look them over and start meeting the 3 people.Not a bad idea.



RCGM
Brad


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## rgrimes945

*The Inclement Weather Contractor*

I am also new to plowsite.com and trying to learn how to use it.also I am new to the plowing and salting in North Carolina. (Raleigh to be exact) our busines is growing a lil each year and curious to see if anyone else is in the southern part of the country. I'm open to some Ideas for pricing myself.

Thanks Ray


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## TheLawnShark

Here's my question. What is the industry standards for pricing with plow vs blow.
Several of my lawn clients want snow removal and instead of buying a plow, I will use a blower instead. Would I charge more for blowing since it takes longer and usually less damage to turf areas along driveway.(Yes some guys are very good with the plow and that won't occur). My thought is No plow or blow are same pricing.

When you charge for plowing do you include walkways and sidewalks? With blowing that would be standard? When the snow gets deeper how do you figure the additional costs?

Example client driveway is 1000 sq ft. What to charge for 3-6,6-9,9-12,12+? I understand people are hesitant to give actual numbers but a low to high doesn't fall under the gov't watchful eye.

Last question. I use contract for lawn however are there any provisions I should place in snow contracts. Having a hard time finding an example of one.

If uncomfortable posting, please PM or email me at [email protected]

Thanks
Don


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## Rcgm

It snows in North Carolina?How much a year 3 inches?Call me stupid but I didn't know it snowed there.


RCGM
Brad


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## Mick

I'm obviously not uncomfortable posting; however, there are some subjects I will not post about. Specific pricing is one. That's because how much for any given area in any specific circumstance varies so much by region, it's really pointless to even post any dollar amount. It would vary even with small regions, dependent upon factors such as number of plows relative to the work available. What I get $20 for, someone else may get $100.You really would be better off finding someone in your area who can help you get started. There are no industry standards that you asked about.

There are guys here who might also send you a copy of a contract. 

As to the question about whether you would charge more for a blower, I'd say "No" since removing the snow from any area should be worth the same, regardless of how it's done. However, yes, if you are blowing the sidewalks, then you should charge for that. Now, you might also be able to charge more for some areas that cannot be done with a truck mounted plow due to tight turns or no place to push the snow. Some guys include the sidewalks in their pricing, but it's not the usual because you might figure plowing at the equivalent of, say, $125/hrs, but can you figure the 1/2 hour or so you're shoveling at the same rate? So, if you charge less, you're losing what you could have been doing instead of the truck just sitting there while you're making $10/hr shoveling.


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## plowinginma

Mick said:


> if you are blowing the sidewalks, then you should charge for that..


LIABILITY LIABILITY LIABILITY

Sidewalks expose you to another level of exposure.. you actually cant charge what a sidewalk is really worth if you factor in the cost of a law suit..


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## TheLawnShark

How are sidewalks a liability? To the homeowner. In PA it is the homewner that has ultimate responsiblity. Now they can turn around and try to sue you. This area lawsuits are hard to win. Also if you have insurance it makes it that much tougher.

How can you plow a drive but not do the sidewalks? Homeowner needs to clear them in 24hrs once snowfall stops or otherwise fined by the township.


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## Rcgm

Not 1 law in Indiana about having to do snow removal at your home not 1.I think what he means if you do the sidewalk that is where people walk and if they fall the want to sue you for a slip and fall that is Liability.

RCGM
Brad


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## TheLawnShark

How could the liability fall upon the contracter. You clear them, snow melts, ice forms, someone falls, how could you be sued a week after. People fall on others property all the time. It is the property owner who has the liability.

Funny thing. I guy on a bike was running from the cops, turns into a stone driveway, falls, breaks leg, gets arrested, sues homeowner, wins about 50k for injuring himself in the commission of a crime. 

My problem is if the cops weren't chasing him he would have not made the turn to which he gotten his injury. This also leads me to why did the contracter who put the stone there not get sued, because it falls back on the property owner.

Is there anyone out there that would give their price for a 1000 sq ft drive, no walks at the different snow depths. Your price does not reflect what I will charge but it will give me what I'm looking for a basis on how to charge when the snow gets deeper. Also do you charge more for wet snow?


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## stumpslawncare

TheLawnShark;326080 said:


> My problem is if the cops weren't chasing him he would have not made the turn to which he gotten his injury. This also leads me to why did the contracter who put the stone there not get sued, because it falls back on the property owner.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> The real problems lies in 2 places 1. If the suspect did not run from the cops this never would have happened, the suspect brought it upon himself. 2. Sue happy lawyers.


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## stumpslawncare

TheLawnShark;326080 said:


> My problem is if the cops weren't chasing him he would have not made the turn to which he gotten his injury. This also leads me to why did the contracter who put the stone there not get sued, because it falls back on the property owner.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> The real problems lies in 2 places 1. If the suspect did not run from the cops this never


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## stumpslawncare

ok to finfish want got cut off

would have happened. The suspect brought it upon himself. 2. Sue happy lawyers


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## treckoj

*Bidding and estimating.*

So many posts about bidding, and oh so little info for a beginner to sink his teeth into. Here are my 2 cents worth. In 1972 I bought a new 3/4 ton Dodge PowerWagon with a "Snow Fighter" package (Meyer ST 7.5) installed. That was in Boone, NC (mountains). No angle control, just lift. I plowed parking lots for $14.50 an hour, and plowed 14 hours straight my first night/day out. My truck payment was $142.00 a month. I was happy. Drive ways were a minimum of $25.00 (considering travel time)! I was up there 'til 1975, when I moved to Fayetteville, NC. Not much snow here when it snows, which is not very often. I since upgraded my "toy" with "Plow Wings" and tilt control. When I do go out now, I do business lots first, with a $50.00 minimum, $75.00 for 1/2 hour, $125.00 for each hour. They are happy, and I am happy getting the chance to play around a bit with my "toy". Because I do mostly small jobs, I made $650 the last time I plowed in about 6 hours, with about 1-1/2 total slack/break time. Alas, that was a few years ago. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!! I am now putting a little money into the truck and getting ready for a new paint job


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## Ole Tower

*Bidding & Estimating?*

Every one needs to Go back to the BASICS of PLOWING as We all Read all the Data? NO One really Tells what? the Charge?? as I Dono? to ME Plowing Snow is pretty SIMPLE & Each JOB--Customer--is Differant First of ALL now early FALL is the TIME to Check on Regular Customers & Talk to the Ones you would Like to Add to Your Route I don*t Pay much attention to What? others CHARGE? I have been Plowing for More yrs than Most of YOU have LIVED! & I*M still LEARNING! I guess? I Am differant than Most? as I Take Photos of ALL my Customers Yards--Businesses--w/ NO SNOW! Now in early FALL so I can SEE! exactally where? everything Is! & when? theres a Deep Storm a foot or More? I just Flip through My Book of Photos & I Know! where every thing IS! & to ME that Takes AL the WORRY Out of every JOB ME I Don*t Charge by DEPTH as to Me thats Foolish as the Customer is NOT Responcable for How Deep the Storm IS so To ME 3 inches? or 2 Feet? Same PRICE & most Customers of MINE will PAY a Little more for a BAD Deep Storm w/out My even Asking! Hes How I Charge! a Regular Drive--three Pushes--$20.00 Business Lots by How Long it takes ME?--as ALL Customers have to Go to Work--so I get there Early & Plow Out where the Highway Plow Left His Berm--so they can Get Out & GO to Work--Businesses that Close at Night I DO the Same as Above & Finsh UP when Their Closed!--24 Hour Businesses means Many Trips so I DO Charge MORE!-- It Really Boils Down to How Long Each Customer Takes!--Most Plowers I SEE --HURRY to Much--Me I DO every Customer Like it Was MY Yard or Business! & I Dono? about other Plowers? but Most of My Customers 3/4 or 75% Call ME & NOT Me Contacting Them! I retired from Plowing yrs AGO! but NOW w/ Customers Calling & Wanting ME to Plow Them! I have ALL the Customers I Can Handel--Don*t Need or Want any MORE--so I really Don*t have the Problems most on this Site Have--I just Refused a 24 hour Business as its too much of a Hassel? I Don*t really Know? the Owner?--but I have Heard He can Be a PITA --I Don*t need that-so I Passed on that ONE I suggest use COMMON Scense! & DO a Good JOB! & You will have Plenty of Work!--GOOD Luck--OleTower--


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## Jbowe

*Bidding*

Look if your so set on somone with experience telling you what they charge so that you get the easy way out by useing someone elses experience and past mistakes during the learning curve why not just wait until it snows 4 inches then call a reputable company in your area and have them come and plow you out. That way you will know what they charge and what is expected of the money you spent. Consider it as a start up cost of doing business. Just my opinion.


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## Jbowe

*Ole Tower*

Your way of looking at your customers is exactly the way I am. I plow as if it is my own drive and I treat my customers with respect and courtousy. I am 59 now so I value those who contact me. Had our first real snow of the year yesterday. 8 to 15 inches depending on which side of the valley you were in. It was a real heavy and wet snow. Picked up 3 new seasonal contracts yesterday as well as 7 call in's for service. It was one of those days where everything went perfect which is unusual for the first snow of the year. No break downs, no one got lost in the woods and we were completely done and watching TV in 7 hrs.


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## mnormington

Mick;227219 said:


> Because it's illegal.


Since when is charging a prevailing wage illegal? Whatever. Smells like BS to me.

I think noone here tells what they would charge for anything cuz they are scared to death somebody else will call them a "lowballer".


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## Mick

mnormington;469505 said:


> Since when is charging a prevailing wage illegal? Whatever. Smells like BS to me.
> 
> I think noone here tells what they would charge for anything cuz they are scared to death somebody else will call them a "lowballer".


I think there are a few here who will agree that I don't BS.


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## mnormington

Mick;469703 said:


> I think there are a few here who will agree that I don't BS.


Everybody BSes. Anybody that says they don't is BSing you!

Actually I looked a little deeper into this here part of the forum and there's some guys sharing what they charge, so that's good. They're all lowballers though.


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## SnowMP

Hi Mick, thanks for bringing up the insurance aspect. If I am just starting out and I manage to get a few accounts, do I need to get a business license? Or can that wait untill a specific amount of money is made?

Thanks


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## ADDCTD2Diesel

The law simply states that if a sidewalk has not been cleared, then someone should not be walking there. If they were to slip and fall, then they would have no basis for suing because you shouldn't have been walking there! 

On the other hand if you have cleared the sidewalk then it implies that it should be usable. If someone were to slip and fall on the sidewalk they COULD sue you, because an attempt to remove the snow has been made, implying that the sidewalk is passable.


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## WetChicken

While I understand the cost of operating varies from region to region and sometimes town to town, and everyone runs their business different, plus whatever other number of variables, it would be nice to get some direction from the members.
When someone asks, please offer what you think should be charged for the area described, and also say why so someone has a starting point and can tweak the pricing if it doesn't meet their needs.
A starting point is all most are asking for.


Jason


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## ciscokid

Hi guys, first question with seasonal contracts do you a percentage down, than payable when you plow. How many plows do you do for a seasonal contract? thanks


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## ColliganLands

break your seasonals up monthly november through whenever you stop. so x number of equal installments - thats how i do it anyways o and i do 25 strom/push average


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## ciscokid

Ok the last guy I worked for did it like this: 5 plows for x amount with fifty percent down and fifty percent due for each plow, with the option to sign another contract for 5 plows or per push plan...good idea? Oh yeah I don't really get all that much snow here maybe 6 to 10 storms a year, but when it does snow it snows


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## ColliganLands

if that works for you. personally its a little bit too complicated just charge a 5 plow deposit non refundable or something along those lines easier for you and the customer to understand and remember in my opinion


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## cretebaby

ciscokid;603620 said:


> How many plows do you do for a seasonal contract? thanks


all of them


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## bosslover

i am going to look at a job tomarrow its a parking lot and side walk that needs to be sanded also what is a genral price i should start with for two truck and a sander i am just looking for a starting point


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## kah68

I am pretty new myslef but have been plowing for my business home family and a few friends for years, I know my costs and I also know I would never touch a res. driveway for anything less than $25. PP I don't care how small it is. You get a gut feeling after a while on the size and difficulty of a job, my price increases in $5. increments. I have a few big driveways that I will be bidding $50. PP If I don't get them someone else can have them and I'll find others to service. I have a pretty good idea what others charge (some of them are friends) and while it's not price fixing we all agree we must keep rates to a reasonable standard to make it worth the effort. It's almost an unspoken rule that $ 25 is the min. for a res. lot. The laws against price fixing is to prevent price gouging, I see nothing wrong with trying to maintian a good level of service at a reasonable price.


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## John D.

*Great Advise*



Mick;218845 said:


> Very rarely are you going to bid by area, until you start bidding lots by the acre. There are three basic methods to bidding - Hourly, per push and seasonal. Most common is per push which I would recommend for you until you've got some experience. All methods are based on "hourly" or "how long will this take and how much do I want to make for the time spent?". Very generally, $125 an hour is common for plowing with a 7 1/2' plow with some expierence. Since most driveways, etc, take much less than an hour, you simply prorate. Don't forget "drive time" to and from the job. I bid each job as if it were the only one in the area. It's common to lose/gain jobs throughout the year, so you want to make it worthwhile if this were the only job in the neighborhood. Getting anything close to accurate estimating takes time and experience, so don't get discouraged if that "15 minute" job turns into 25 or 30. Just chaulk it up to experience. Make sure you charge more for larger amounts. A common range is 3" - 6", 6" - 9", 9" -12" and "over 12".
> 
> Hourly is common in some places, but you would want to keep a low rate at first. Efficient plowing is an art coupled with experience. Customers would get rather upset at a beginner charging $125/hr. Seasonal contracts are best left alone until you get some customers willing to commit to three-year contracts and you get good at estimating.
> 
> This might get you started thinking, then do a "Search" using "bidding" as a keyword.


I just read your reply to "how do I bid?" and I couldnt agree more. I see that it was posted in July of 05. I'm in central jersey, using this same formula in 08 with the market becoming more competitive than ever. I find the residential customers feel these numbers hard to swallow. As a result I'm doing more smaller jobs for less and subbing my guys out. I also find that if unless your referred you rarely have an opportunity to bid on new work, any advise for me.


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## Mick

John D.;625799 said:


> I just read your reply to "how do I bid?" and I couldnt agree more. I see that it was posted in July of 05. I'm in central jersey, using this same formula in 08 with the market becoming more competitive than ever. I find the residential customers feel these numbers hard to swallow. As a result I'm doing more smaller jobs for less and subbing my guys out. I also find that if unless your referred you rarely have an opportunity to bid on new work, any advise for me.


Think about getting out of residential and more into commercial and industrial. The old saying "If anybody can do it; anybody will" applies. Residential is easy to get into - commercial is harder. And takes different/more insurance. And more experience. And, and, and. You'll really narrow the pool of competitors. On the other hand - your customers are going to be more demanding and less forgiving.

(Unless you're in an area like mine where there is very little commercial accounts - actually none.)


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## John D.

*New Accounts*



Mick;625826 said:


> Think about getting out of residential and more into commercial and industrial. The old saying "If anybody can do it; anybody will" applies. Residential is easy to get into - commercial is harder. And takes different/more insurance. And more experience. And, and, and. You'll really narrow the pool of competitors. On the other hand - your customers are going to be more demanding and less forgiving.
> 
> (Unless you're in an area like mine where there is very little commercial accounts - actually none.)


I've been around pushing snow for at least 6 years. I had mostly residential and a few commercial accounts. Small time. The next year word of mouth picked up a few more contracts and one big one. We were so happy. The following year picked up one more large 24hr trucking company in our area, held onto to them for the next two years. Operations changed in both cases and we lost our two biggest accounts. They say they are bringing it back in house. Sign of the times I guess.Back to the drawing board!! With big Insurance you need to have at least a few decent accounts. I'm sure something will fall into place, it always does!!
Nobody wants to think of snow till its snowing.


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## Premier

there is no standard price, if you can do it for $1.00 then do it more power to you, but you wont be in business for long, i price at a min. $60.00 per man hour. now that dose not include the cost of the equiptment that he/she is using, that is an additional charge, those prices i will not disclose. So to give a reply to the question if you plow a drive is the cost less than if you use a blower? yes i do because it costs me more per hour but that is how i do it, the cost is more in time (man hours),fuel cuz i know my guys dont shut the truck off, workmans comp claim usage risk is up ,ect. example we have been plowing a driveway for 25 a snow fall, this year the guy wants a price to blow it i give him a price of $50.00 1-3" going up by tens w/" 3 increments. he takes it. if you know your customer you know how to charge, ** a quote from my landlord, what you charge means nothing if the client cant afford it, or worse refuses to pay it'.


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## sp6x6

I have plowed off and on for 25 yrs. 10 years ago in my area most guys were a buck a minute, and it seems like some still are. That is how some of my jobs pencil out.There are plenty of guys running around doing 15-20 dollar drives.Up here everybody has a plow so their is more competition than 10 years ago.I mainly work by the hour but I do bids and guotes to get a job.I do jobs that truck plows cant and that is my niche, we network and refer work to each other.I use a SS with pusher,bucket,blade or blower what ever works best. Tomorrow I go to a business and clear 6' deep snow that slid off roof, 1/2 day job, Transport equip. $45, then $65 hr.


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## duramaxblade

Bidding can be tough. You are bidding to get the job AND make money. I have been plowing for 6 years. I didn't take it seriously at first. The day I picked up my first plow truck I went knocking on doors offering $20 a storm. I had no experience and just saw money falling out of the sky. Things now are different.

For the past few years I had been plowing for an excavation company in a loader with a push box, and doing a few resi's for myself. I got the hang of bidding after a while. The biggest thing that will help you get the jobs if if you can portray good, high quality service when you talk to the people you're giving the bids to. I live in NH and I am not sure how everyone else bids. I know that I am probably less than some, but more than others.

I now have 41 residential drives and no commercial. I don't have any driveway that is less than $30 under 8 inches, and the most expensive one I have is $75. I charge in increments 2-8 8-12 12+. I have found that breaking it up confuses the customer too much, and the amounts of snow change a lot depending where you are. I always go twice, back drag. All the stuff that makes home owners happy.

I know that I could probably make more, but lots of home owners are in tough spots, and I have to accord for that. I am happy making what I do. Can't complain. I do have friends that charge $50 for every pass that they make. But they also only have about ten accounts. Thats all that they can get and they are really spread out. My 40 drives take me about 5-6 hours, depending on how bad the roads are.

Everyone will have to find out what works best for where they are, but for the people who live around here this might help them out a little. I think charging $20 for a driveway is too little and not worth anyones time, and it's hard to go up on your price and still keep customers. I know because I have done it. Mostly in the way that I bill, since I didn't use to charge in increments. But I have been lucky and I have never had to advertise, everything has been word of mouth. That is the best way to go. Anyways, I hope this helps some guys who were looking for pricing Q&A's.


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## wkahler

When is to early to bid, i was going to make some flyer's up to try and pick up a few commercial lots this year, but i know most the people that have there properties mowed, have them plowed by the same people. I am not out to get rich, at least not this year, but i have 40 +/- residential lots but would like to get about 3-6 commercial lots to get the experience. I was planing on getting some flyer's out on June to July time frame.


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## duramaxblade

I don't know, but I want to do the same thing this year too.


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## Martin Tirado

Although this thread seems to have died, Mick is entirely correct. It's not only called price-fixing but also anti-trust. Even the posting listed earlier in this thread....get am ambitious group of property managers and owners with some legal savvy who at least have the belief that snow plowing prices are too high and alot of people could be in trouble.


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## committed2grow

On a side note I was writing a risk management purposal for a commercial property and in the process found that there is an increased liability if the a sidewalk is shoveled. If someone has shoveled the side walk it shows an emplied understanding of risk, but if you never shoveled it and someone slips while your are still liable it decreases the liability and the amount of money you could end up paying out. I am unsure of the liability that the contractor may share, I was writing this for the owner but now that I am beginning to plow on my own I am thinking hard if shoveling is worth it.


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## bigmudder77

Yes the price dont mean any thing if they cant afford to pay for it 

this past year i seen more plow trucks out than any other year drive down the road on a day thats snowing almost every truck you see has a plow on it 

or you see a truck pulling a little trailer with a 4 wheeler or mower on it 

its hard to make money out where im from plowing cause im in the counrty mostly 10 miles to any thing one way so some one living in town can plow it for $20 a push with me driving in to town at $20 a push with a full size truck with a plow on it $20 a push im walking away with about $5 if that by the time i get the truck back home 

it was great living in the city to plow but over the years there was just more and more out there and people with these junker trucks that have more rust than paint go and plow for $10-30 a push when some one thats been doing it for a while would be charging $40-80 a push for the same drives 

i just plow my own drive way and a couple other peoples i had a bronco II this last year plowing it was a pos truck body was good but it needed a new motor water in the oil it lasted almost all winter plowing my drive way that took about an hour every time (yes i took my time i could get it done in 10 mins if i put the gas to the floor) but didnt want ot cause of the motor being weak but it did pretty good only thing i had was it didnt have enough power to push the snow up any type of hill so i needed to get a running start and if you plow you know thats not a good idea cause when you hit a pile it throws it on your windshield and you cant see

but yes bidding on lots or drives takes some time cause every place is different by state or by county its all different and like people said on here some one can charge $20 a push and thats a fair price where as some one can charge $80 for the same type of drive in a different place and thats a fair price


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## HEStufrthnnails

In my experience the low ballers usually are weeded out very soon. Maybe after the first snow. I also agree pricing varies widely. For instance. A friend whom lives about 150 miles from me can very well charge 3 times the price for a similar job in my area and be the lowest bidder. Also , we live in a great nation, and free enterprise is the name of the business game. So to create a union of sorts ruins that aspect. Just my thoughts.ussmileyflag


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## chp

Lawnshark, In PA. Once you sign a contract with a customer to preform a sevice you become responsible ( liable) unless you have VERY specific verbage spelling out what is or is not covered.I do nothing but side walks. 95% commercial 5% residential. Even if you only plow the lot or drive way and someone falls you are open to a lawsuit.


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## brian85

hey i just got into the snow plow bussines last year and landed a big lot tha is 12 acres and is open 24/7 i they wanted me to plow this place for $$75,000 a year but i dont think its enough i have used over 200 ton of just salt at $80 bucks a ton and tons of money in repairs so how much is reall y enough for a flat rate


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## Mick

brian85;1015409 said:


> hey i just got into the snow plow bussines last year and landed a big lot tha is 12 acres and is open 24/7 i they wanted me to plow this place for $$75,000 a year but i dont think its enough i have used over 200 ton of just salt at $80 bucks a ton and tons of money in repairs so how much is reall y enough for a flat rate


Landed a $75,000 contract the second year? Is there another company in the area pushing snow? Really shows a lack of judgment on their part.


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## alldayrj

Thanks for your insight that was helpful.I was thinking of going after a Wallmart here in LI NY I have 2 bobcats with push boxes and 2 trucks, can that handle a wallmart lot? What do you think? Who should I ask for to bid on contract?
Thanks, RJ


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## brian85

just call and talk to the store manager but u should make your bid about 150000 a year if you want to actually make some money after salt, larbor, and all the break downs walmart is a very demanding a tuff customer i have a terex loader witha 8yard bucket newholland ls180 f550 chevy one ton and a pickup and in a big storm it takes all that plus a sub to keep up 
what kind of pushers do u have i want to get a couple for my loader and s
kidsteer


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## RCsLawncare

Hoping someone might be able to help, how do I post the google maps into a thread. I have a couple I would like to upload.


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## alldayrj

To b honest I havent bought the boxes yet I hear the pro techs are good but expensive. Im not sure if a bobcat can push across a whole lot? What do you think? I put the boxes bc I was going to buy them this summer hopefully at a deal.


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## brian85

i know a guy that does 4 walmart he has pro tech and snow dogg pushers he says that the snow doggs works just as good and not as experice look at the snoe technlogies pusher video its on the top of the page u just have to see it


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## alldayrj

Thanks B85


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## alldayrj

thats crazy is that just a big tire I gotta call tomorrow and see what they cost
RJ


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## alldayrj

Brian check this out tell me what u think


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## HEStufrthnnails

Pretty impressive.Do you think it would be faster than a Ebwing though?


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## PremierPM

That is awesome! I still like ebling blades better.


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## alldayrj

I called KAGE they're asking $5,700.00 on a 6' I believe, alittle pricy for me.


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## grandview

Must be getting close to plow season,Micks back!


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## Mick

:waving:

Yes, but not plowing this winter - except for my own. I know I've said that before, but this is it. I made out REAL good last winter with seasonal (plowed three times - average season is twelvepayup). With everything, it's just time to hang it up.


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## grandview

Mick;1059145 said:


> :waving:
> 
> Yes, but not plowing this winter - except for my own. I know I've said that before, but this is it. I made out REAL good last winter with seasonal (plowed three times - average season is twelvepayup). With everything, it's just time to hang it up.


I've said it before. Snowplowing is like being in the mob,you never leavepayup


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## mtnzone

Mick;1059145 said:


> :waving:
> 
> Yes, but not plowing this winter - except for my own. I know I've said that before, but this is it. I made out REAL good last winter with seasonal (plowed three times - average season is twelvepayup). With everything, it's just time to hang it up.


you only plowed three times last year???

how the heck did you do that.? I live in North conway and grew up in Maine. Last year was a low year but we still mananged to plow 12- 15 times last year.


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## Mick

There was a BIG difference in snow in just a few miles. With a 3" trigger, I only went out three times and the last time it snowed was in January (13th, I think). It didn't snow again at all. I didn't keep track of total snowfall, but I doubt we got much over 15-20 Inches all winter (average is about 79"). I only had the one account left from the winter before and really hadn't wanted to do it. But it was an easy private road of an absentee owner, so could wait and do it when I wanted. Plus it was a seasonal (verbal) contract. Way it wound up, I actually made about $30 a MINUTE. I think it's best to quit while I'm ahead. I'd told him I wasn't plowing again, but got a letter yesterday asking if I'd changed my mind. Nope.


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## devile

Mick;1093672 said:


> There was a BIG difference in snow in just a few miles. With a 3" trigger, I only went out three times and the last time it snowed was in January (13th, I think). It didn't snow again at all. I didn't keep track of total snowfall, but I doubt we got much over 15-20 Inches all winter (average is about 79"). I only had the one account left from the winter before and really hadn't wanted to do it. But it was an easy private road of an absentee owner, so could wait and do it when I wanted. Plus it was a seasonal (verbal) contract. Way it wound up, I actually made about $30 a MINUTE. I think it's best to quit while I'm ahead. I'd told him I wasn't plowing again, but got a letter yesterday asking if I'd changed my mind. Nope.


Been reading LOTS, and HARDLY make any posts... But one thing I can say... Mick, if you weren't plowing, then why are you back? I'm thinking there is still some point that you will plow something other than your personal...


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## Mick

devile;1096230 said:


> ... But one thing I can say... Mick, if you weren't plowing, then why are you back? ...


Entertainment


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## GoingGreenInc.

Mick you're such a good guy.. I've been watching your posts, and you always try to help people. Thanks for always being the one to step up and help the others.

WTG way to go  

Barb


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## pstander

Has anyone ordered the snow and ice removal guide or the lawn care success guide? Is it worth while? I have put in two emails and a phone call with a question and have gotten no response. I want to know if the lawn care success guide includes everything you get in the snow and ice removal guide.


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## Mick

GoingGreenInc.;1099669 said:


> Mick you're such a good guy.. I've been watching your posts, and you always try to help people. Thanks for always being the one to step up and help the others.
> 
> WTG way to go
> 
> Barb


Thanks. Comments like yours keep me thinking it's worth staying around. I know that sometimes I drift into being a smart alek or sarcastic. But I try to keep in mind some people really do come here for information.

pstander, if you haven't yet, start a new thread.


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## pstander

I have started a new thread. Thank you I am new around here


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## bignyla

*help*

I'm trying to bid a seasonal job and i need help the facility is 430by200 and it consist of one large parking lot one small and a walk way and one driveway


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## hammerdstone

*I need help with bid*

Can anyone here take a stab at what you would charge to plow this area......everything in the RED..thanks for your help guys. can it be done with one truck ina timely manner?wesport


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## HEStufrthnnails

Well, there's a lot of variables to be considered. Such as; Average snowfall per winter ,any set parameters(time frame they would like it completed,minimal amounts before plowing),how many accounts you have,how many pieces of equipment you have at your disposal, and are they flexible on where you are placing the snow or do you have to push it really far to get rid of it ? As far as one truck being able to,sure,but lets say you have 6-8 accounts by the time you spend 4 hrs here your other customers may be calling you . Now if you have just a couple accounts,sure,but if you have only one truck that's fine,but always have a back up. A buddy or another plow guy to have your back and that works both ways. I hope this helps you. Plow on.


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## R3Dside

Mick;227219 said:


> Because it's illegal.


 Not enough reason for some people out there i suppose, ha.
...price fixing.... yep.. that was high school.

Innocently evil.


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## 3diamonds

*new estimate*

Can anyone help with my first commercial estimate?
Per push?
Season?
Per sq ft?

lot & Walkway
with salt

Michigan


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## turfguy83

Has anyone ever come up with production rates? and then we can input our own cost? I use bidding matrices like this for Annual Landscape Maintenance.


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## turfguy83

Has anyone ever come up with production rates? i use a bidding matrix for my Annual Landscape Mainteance estimating. based on a per sq foot basis, or linear feet, etc.


example:
How long does it take one truck with a 6'6" blade to push 1000sq feet? 
How long does it take one man to walk a spreader 1000sq feet?

things like that. then i could input my own overhead and material costs


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## cvilleblade

*Landscaping Success Package*

Hi Sean,

Your Landscaping Success Guide looks really impressive.

We do more hard landscaping (patios, driveways, stone walls etc.) and I was wondering if the guide covers that part of the industry as well? Or is it mostly concerned with lawn care and more greener activities?

Thanks and thank you for all the hard work.

Lawrence
Sutton, Quebec


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## Red02F250

Looking for a little help. I've been pushing for 12 years, mostly municipally, with 3/4 ton trucks up 20 ton trucks. Now, just on the side with my own truck, I usually sub-contract and do well with that. I've also done a small HOA near my house for the last 5 years, just on a verbal agreement (I know how risky and stupid that could have been) but now they have asked me to submit a bid for contract.

They're asking for a "per push" quote, which I've never done. I've charged previously by the hour, starting off at $85/hr for up to 5" and increasing by 15-25% for deeper snows. Its a few small alleys with parking, a small parking area (~1/2 acre) and a few short streets. It usually takes 45-60 min for a thorough push and cleaning up the parking area and cul de sacs. The quote that's requested is for each push after 3" has accumulated (measured by the contractor). Anyone have a good suggested range for me? Thanks in advance.


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## 3diamonds

Why just charge them $85 then. Wala!


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## 3diamonds

Why just charge them $85 then. Wala! 

Its' seem no one wants to help with actual Prices on here. 
Why is that?


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## Red02F250

That would seem too easy! 
I haven't charged more because these are essentially my neighbors and I'm not trying to screw them, but I know I could profit more. If I continue, I'll be getting insurance which will increase my cost thus increasing my rate. I also had a jerk accuse me of hitting his old beat up truck last year and filed a police report. I had to show him that my red truck had no damage, couldn't have left white paint transfer on his green truck and the tire tracks in the snow didn't match before he believed me. So if I'm going to put up with that, I'm going to be paid for it. I also want to have an acceptable bid. 
Maybe I'll just see if the company I sub for is interested in it.


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## 3diamonds

it is that easy "dont give up"


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## Red02F250

To quote Joe Dirt, I'll just "Keep on keepin on." Haha! Thanks for the encouragement!


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## castlerock1

Mick;218845 said:


> Very rarely are you going to bid by area, until you start bidding lots by the acre. There are three basic methods to bidding - Hourly, per push and seasonal. Most common is per push which I would recommend for you until you've got some experience. All methods are based on "hourly" or "how long will this take and how much do I want to make for the time spent?". Very generally, $125 an hour is common for plowing with a 7 1/2' plow with some expierence. Since most driveways, etc, take much less than an hour, you simply prorate. Don't forget "drive time" to and from the job. I bid each job as if it were the only one in the area. It's common to lose/gain jobs throughout the year, so you want to make it worthwhile if this were the only job in the neighborhood. Getting anything close to accurate estimating takes time and experience, so don't get discouraged if that "15 minute" job turns into 25 or 30. Just chaulk it up to experience. Make sure you charge more for larger amounts. A common range is 3" - 6", 6" - 9", 9" -12" and "over 12".
> 
> Hourly is common in some places, but you would want to keep a low rate at first. Efficient plowing is an art coupled with experience. Customers would get rather upset at a beginner charging $125/hr. Seasonal contracts are best left alone until you get some customers willing to commit to three-year contracts and you get good at estimating.
> 
> This might get you started thinking, then do a "Search" using "bidding" as a keyword.


Why you guys looking any further when this guy Mick said it best. Last year was my first year for plowing. I started with 4 hours of sub-contract work for a big landscaping company of which I know the owner. They have 40, 1 ton+ trucks on the road with plows and run 20 extra trucks, skid steers, salters and sidewalk crews. But anyway it gave me a good idea of how long it takes me to do a commercial lot and that info was invaluable. 
The truth is, you can charge whatever you want, but try not to shortchange yourself cause you'll find it's not worth it but use common sense. If 5 of your neighbors want their drives cleaned, give them a break in price cause you have no drive time. Also try not to be the most expensive when getting your foot in the door. This year I had the oppurtunity to bid on four nice commercial accounts. I only got 1. I was 30% higher than the bigger companies, but I wrote those prices down and now I have a general idea of what the bigger guys are bidding. Also you have to remember on most commercial you are salting as well and right there is added income. hope this helps.


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## bigboss1977

*Bids*

I guess every area in the united states has there own prices for there area. In my area I've seen people charge from any where from $45.00 to $150.00 per hour/push and more on the lower side. It seems like every single person that owns a pickup a truck also owns a plow. I ran into one snow plow driver, truck falling apart, plow was a POS, couldnt get his blade to raise, then the battery died, he said he only does this in the winter time for a little extra cash, carrys just the min on auto truck insurance and no libialty insurance....and it's these people winning all the bids in my area. But yet when someone like me turns in bid, with a good looking, well taken care of truck and plow, carrying 2 million dollar insurance policy, truck and libialty insurance I'm loosing all my bids. Now if it was me in need of snow plow services and someone came into my business with there truck falling apart, completly rusted out pretty much I'm sorry I would have to pass, guess first impression means something to me but I guess to others saving a buck means more.


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