# Another snow company pushed massive pile into our lot!



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

How would you handle this?

I first was pissed off knowing we were already behind and now needing to relocate the loader to another site not planned on ever using it originally.

In mt laurel, NJ, we handle a property that has an entrance on a main "back street mall road", its 4 lanes so pretty wide.

The company handling the petsmart, cosco, wegmans and 30 other stores in there pushed the entire entrance on their side of the street with front end loader 16' pushboxes across the 4 lanes and left them RIGHT in the entrance thats about 4 lanes wide into the location we handle.

By the time our truck got back there for the 2nd push, now at least 8" overnight, but building is still closed, i find out our 1 ton truck cant even get into the lot :/

Pile was about 10' tall and 70' wide, from traffic light pole on the left side to the pole on the right side. pics below.

I had our driver waste time in an already desperate time go and find which company handled the adjacent parking lot. He said whos name was on the pushbox and called them. The company said they would check into it and never got back after a 2nd phone call.... they didnt even know if they handled that site or not :/ I'd guess it was subbed to them or from them, who knows.

a half hour later, i call the cops... 911, what is your emergency. I said Were at xxx location and need an officer out here, the "neighbor" just filled up our driveway with 10' of snow and i need an incident report noting such.

Cop comes out an hour later, tells my guy theres nothing he can do because its not illegal and we'd have to take it up with the other company, he drives over to find someone, but doesnt.... somehow everyone is gone from the site and its still snowing hard, no push box operator at this time either.

Two more hours go by, by this time, my guy plows over a quarter mile if not more to get into the aux/back entrance to our clients site through an office complex that has over 12" of snow in it, not knowing the site, where curbs are or anything and to make way for our other crew/trucks and trailer to get in with the tractor later.

At this time, i have him call the cops again and i want a goddam incident report or else im going to flip. Operator has the call logged or on file, notes on it that we called back again informing them that the company never called us back and never sent anyone over with a machine to remove the pile.

So by this time, its an hour later already, i take our machine from one property, 72" bucket and 8' pushbox loaded up on our 32' gooseneck trailer with salt and transport 14 miles away in the dead middle of a snowstorm in jersey :/

An hour more goes by and we finally get to the site "myself" to see wtf is going on. I pull in with one truck going down an decline and its iced up, 4x4 and im spinning in reverse cant move the truck.

I have the tractor unloaded on the main street, "in the street" because no shoulders are plowed by the city or town yet, and leave it running with lights going and all.

tractor pushes our truck out and frees it up. Then got the 72" bucket on and drive the 1/4+ mile through the now half plowed office complex from my driver to the main entrance to our clients site.

See pictures below. There must have been 100 tons of snow, it took hundreds of bucket fulls of hard packed "not iced" though snow and move it to the side and 100' in back of this pile onto the grass part of the site we were on.

I had long ago notified the prop manager that we service two of these similar locations for.... he said do whatever we need to, he needs to open by 5:30am... so they'd actually PAY for us to remove this other companys @#$%$ up, which i didnt feel was right either.

Its around midnight by the time the work is finally started to remove this pile.

4am, site is finished, pile is gone, plow trucks cleaned up what was left and we left. Prop manager was beyond impressed that in such a horrible situation and coupled with the massive snow, that he drives in and opens the doors by 5:30am.

I have not contacted the other company since, im not even sure what this work costed us in lost time, labor, machine loader emergency cost, transport, fuel, time away from other sites for all the work in relocating the machine, having to send trucks off other jobs to the original site the machine WAS on prior etc.

I almost was going to just send the company a kind letter in the mail certified with a bill for like $1k, $250/hr for the machine, then im thinking, ive lost thousands on this because we didnt plow other places in time and caused us more headaches than you can imagine.

Should i keep the bill honest at 1-2k for the work and HOPE they decide its not too bad and just pay it, or should i hammer it at 10k for lost time etc. and hope they hand it off to their liability insurance? I think either way its going to be difficult at best or impossible to get them to pay, so why be so gentle at 1-2k?

I try to think in the reverse senario, if it was our crew that did this, which i hope it would never be, but i'd only hope the company calls us to report it and not just slam us with a 10k bill the next week :/ But we would have answered the phone which this company never got back to us twice and just thew us by the wayside. Its not my fault they have elcrap brains for operators in 100k loaders on a 200k/season site.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)




----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)




----------



## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

That's friggin unbelievable. We've had similar situations, but not anywhere near that extent. I hope you get somewhere with the a$$holes.


----------



## SnowMatt13 (Jan 8, 2003)

I would send someone a bill.....
You did a smart thing by taking pictures....
Be honest in the dollar amount.....what goes around comes around, but make sure you get paid appropriately for your time, equipment and hassles.
Can you prove that it was comapny XXX for sure?
I would send a bill to the property owner of where the snow came from. Start with that. Maybe meet with him/her and bring your pictures and records. Be a professional and explain your issue and see what happens. 
Then take it from there. No need to push the panic button right away.


----------



## SuperdutyShane (Mar 6, 2009)

Wow, what was he thinking? Did he think all the buildings in there were not operational? Im surprised he even pushed across the street, not 2 lanes but 4 lanes wide too.


----------



## SuperdutyShane (Mar 6, 2009)

Oh and if you arent sure as to who it was pushing the snow... Im sure both of these big lots have cameras, just look if the loader and pusher are the same as the one across the street and if their detailing on the pushed is the same on camera/ in person.


----------



## ProSeasons (Nov 30, 2000)

Send a bill to the offending snow 'removal' company AND a bill to their client as well explaining the reason for the invoice. At the very least to get the plowing company into trouble with the client.

I bet you receive 2 checks.


----------



## Acmemechanic (Aug 27, 2005)

*Thats Unbelievable!!!!*

I have Been Doing Snow Removal For Over 25 Years in Rhode Island and nearby Massachusetts & Almost All Cities and Towns Have a Law That won't even let you Drop your blade on the Public Streets unless You are a contractor With Them.

You Don't Push across the road under no circumstance whatsoever !!! It in Itself is a Ticket able Offense. The Fines are high enough that if you do and get caught your very likely never to do it again. payuppayup


----------



## BruteForce750 (Nov 20, 2009)

Do you understand 911 is for emergencies and not there to solve your plowing problems? In a storm which allows piles to accumulate like you have, did you ever think there might be people whom are actually in need of help? And here you are tying up an officer to solve your little dilemma...

What is wrong with society....


----------



## EGLC (Nov 8, 2007)

Brute, last time I checked cops are here to serve and protect and I believe when a contractor is pushing that amount of snow across a *FOUR LANE STREET, ONTO AN ENTRANCE WAY FOR A LARGE COMMERCIAL BUILDING* that would be a good reason to call.

You sound like one of those lazy cops who thinks all he has to do it write speeding tickets and go through the drive-thru at Dunkin Dounuts.

I would call up the Client of this other snow removal company and personally explained what happened and send him the bill along with pictures. Who knows, maybe you'll get his business in the future.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I still think I could have worked a hole throught the centre with my Boss V. I'm assuming the contractor had this account the previous year.


----------



## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

I am going to agree with Dave on this one.

J.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

ProSeasons;924480 said:


> Send a bill to the offending snow 'removal' company AND a bill to their client as well explaining the reason for the invoice. At the very least to get the plowing company into trouble with the client.
> 
> I bet you receive 2 checks.


yeah maybe, ill be sure to find out who the property manager/owner or prop management company is that oversees it and start that way. Im not in a panic situation, not anymore at least, but ultimately because we chewed up so much time on this site, it partially contributed to loosing the account not because of this site "manager was totally impressed" , but we pulled guys off the other site we handle for them and that coupled with just poor performance of the 2nd site and failure to get salt there in time "5:30am", crew "ran out" and took an enormous amount of time to get the truck reloaded and i failed to find out every 10 minutes their status... so we lost both of these accounts. We probably wont get paid and if anything, since they called another larger company now to fix our lack of performance at the 2nd site, im sure we will see a monster last minute bill from them instead of us billing out thousands for the original contract work. It took us forever and multiple site visits to get this account :/

not blaming it all on this freking monster pile though, just that it sure as hell didnt help when we were already behind.


----------



## ed39 (Oct 9, 2007)

wen that happens to me, i give it back to themmm.... and make a bigger mess, but thats redic! cops wont do crap ive gone threw this before its a pain in the a$$


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Acmemechanic;924523 said:


> I have Been Doing Snow Removal For Over 25 Years in Rhode Island and nearby Massachusetts & Almost All Cities and Towns Have a Law That won't even let you Drop your blade on the Public Streets unless You are a contractor With Them.
> 
> You Don't Push across the road under no circumstance whatsoever !!! It in Itself is a Ticket able Offense. The Fines are high enough that if you do and get caught your very likely never to do it again. payuppayup


yeah... im glad the guys on here understand this! Another site we handle in cherry hill NJ, the adjacent storage center was plowed out the NEXT DAY after our supermarket was done and clear... i find out TODAY that their "monster pile" is pushed across the side street and onto our supermarket's side and covering our snowblown "dry" sidewalks with 6' of snow .

will get a few pics in the next couple days of that too just for kicks, didnt cause us any issues so far but ill be contacting the company and notifying them in writing that if i see it again on our property across the street ill send them a bill too for the removal and relocation and hauling.. i think theyll get the picture quickly.:crying:


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

BruteForce750;924558 said:


> Do you understand 911 is for emergencies and not there to solve your plowing problems? In a storm which allows piles to accumulate like you have, did you ever think there might be people whom are actually in need of help? And here you are tying up an officer to solve your little dilemma...
> 
> What is wrong with society....


We have most city #s... when you call the local police departments at 11pm or so, they usually do not answer and will say, if this is an emergency, hang up and dial 911...

ive been told it from both sides, most say always call 911 to get an officer dispatched, and others say dont call unless someone is dying.

Sure its not an emergency, but when there is no other way to call the police department directly, let 911 operators dispatch properly.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

JD Dave;924596 said:


> I still think I could have worked a hole throught the centre with my Boss V. I'm assuming the contractor had this account the previous year.


im not sure... its a big place, id hope so. My guys made one 10mph push at it in the V ram position... said truck went a foot or two into the pile and stopped when it started to climb up it.

I mean its not a 40gvw truck but a 1 ton diesel with 3000+lbs of salt in it and a V XT boss 8'2" plow doesnt go through, your not gonna make it much further with anything similar.... i was hoping he could take a whack at it so it would just eat up a few more minutes...

when i burried the tractor 72" bucket at the bottom of the pile, "breakout force of roughly almost 3k", it struggled and got stuck for a second at the very bottom scoop because it was slushy and packed hard in near the surface of the street.

heres a pic or two of the office complex we had to plow through just to get into our lot we handled.









here comes truck and tractor passing through to get to the lot...


----------



## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

What is with these stupid freaking companies?

Plowing 101
You can't put piles on other people's properties.
Damn!!!!!!!1

(see my other thread on teh same subject)

I talked with the property manager (mine) and told him what's going on and he talked to the other company and basically if we have to remove the pile (loader, dump truck) it's going to cost them (other company) up the ying yang.

I get the feeling the property manager is pissed and is going to double or triple our bill (which isn't cheap)


----------



## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

Is it me or are your guys piling snow in a handicapped parking spot?

J.


----------



## Silentroo (Jun 19, 2006)

1. This is an emergency situation. They Blocked all access including fire access to the property. A police report is VERY necessary. 

2. I would have the property manager contact the property manager for the other property and explain that he had to pay 2500 to remove the snow from his site. Generally they have much better luck working it out. Other wise bill both the plow guy and the property management company he works for. I would include both your time, and a disposal fee for storing the snow. 

3 Pay backs are fun, however very unprofessional and very dangerous. Quickly damage will happen that you and your insurance company will be paying for.


----------



## NW Snow Removal (Oct 12, 2007)

am I the only one that is considering that it may be the city plows that covered up your entry. I remember last year in chicago when we got 13 inches every one of our lots had ridiculously high snow piles at the entries due to 4 lane roads being cleared to the sides. this does seem extreme, and I agree to send 2 bills. Best of luck.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Peterbilt;924652 said:


> Is it me or are your guys piling snow in a handicapped parking spot?
> 
> J.


No they probably did at first, i make sure theyre all moved out by the time theyre leaving the site. Some smaller properties we do theres no where else to put the snow in the front/sides of stores with the handi spots in the corners, but yeah i've chewed them out already after this monster storm for leaving the @#%# in those spots!


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

NW Snow Removal;924791 said:


> am I the only one that is considering that it may be the city plows that covered up your entry. I remember last year in chicago when we got 13 inches every one of our lots had ridiculously high snow piles at the entries due to 4 lane roads being cleared to the sides. this does seem extreme, and I agree to send 2 bills. Best of luck.


well sides of the street were around 24", this was about 80+"


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Silentroo;924701 said:


> 1. This is an emergency situation. They Blocked all access including fire access to the property. A police report is VERY necessary.
> 
> 2. I would have the property manager contact the property manager for the other property and explain that he had to pay 2500 to remove the snow from his site. Generally they have much better luck working it out. Other wise bill both the plow guy and the property management company he works for. I would include both your time, and a disposal fee for storing the snow.
> 
> 3 Pay backs are fun, however very unprofessional and very dangerous. Quickly damage will happen that you and your insurance company will be paying for.


yeah i forgot about that... we actually have an account in another town which entails just that, plowing to the front just for emergency access...


----------



## jrodgers (Feb 14, 2001)

Is that location EG in MOTWN?


----------



## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

I'm with Dave, coulda chipped away with the V and at least made access. I wasn't there with my story pole but looks like 10 ft high is a little bit exagerated, looks like 6-7, maybe 8..........NOT that what they did was in any way acceptable!!!!! Plain stupid! Imagine your clients tenants/employees seeing it, and anyone else who happened by(not that there were many people out I hope) think, no wonder so many people think plow guys are unprofessional idoits who charge too much.

Bill it honestly, but considering the emergency transport of the machine in very hazardous consitions for trailering anything and all the other factors you mentioned, and get in writing your clients willingness to pay the bill, then tell him you'll pursue it with the other company and property owner/manager. Set a time limit, if they don't pay collect from your guy and let his lawyer figure out the rest.


----------



## JohnDeere2320 (Dec 12, 2009)

> yeah maybe, ill be sure to find out who the property manager/owner or prop management company is that oversees it and start that way. Im not in a panic situation, not anymore at least, but ultimately because we chewed up so much time on this site, it partially contributed to loosing the account not because of this site "manager was totally impressed" , but we pulled guys off the other site we handle for them and that coupled with just poor performance of the 2nd site and failure to get salt there in time "5:30am", crew "ran out" and took an enormous amount of time to get the truck reloaded and i failed to find out every 10 minutes their status... so we lost both of these accounts. We probably wont get paid and if anything, since they called another larger company now to fix our lack of performance at the 2nd site, im sure we will see a monster last minute bill from them instead of us billing out thousands for the original contract work. It took us forever and multiple site visits to get this account :/


So am I to understand that even after the property manager commended you on your above and beyond effort on this property that he still fired you because another site under his supervision was neglected? Seems assinine of him to me.

Take care. Mike


----------



## palmtree907 (Sep 25, 2009)

In Anchorage, it is illegal to push snow across any public street. The POPO will ticket yer ass in a heartbeat. Cant stack a resi drivevin the pile in the cul-de sac either. But yes, we do it. And if you don't have yer Orange beacon on, theres another $80. We have a non emergency number for the police that they operate 24/7. That's the number to call for stuff like this, and hell yeah, I woulda too!


----------



## s&mll (Nov 15, 2008)

Carl next time you need help give me a call. Everything I read in your posts seems like you could use some help. And yes if it wasnt iced over your vs cold have gotten in.


----------



## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

JohnDeere2320;924995 said:


> So am I to understand that even after the property manager commended you on your above and beyond effort on this property that he still fired you because another site under his supervision was neglected? Seems assinine of him to me.
> 
> Take care. Mike


thats what i was wondering. i think there is more to this story than we are hearing.


----------



## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

i was thinking city boys, you cant even see any tracks or clearing in the first couple post that there loader and pusher crossed the road. all i have to say is good luck and hope you make out with this one, karma is a *****!


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;924596 said:


> I still think I could have worked a hole throught the centre with my Boss V. I'm assuming the contractor had this account the previous year.





Peterbilt;924609 said:


> I am going to agree with Dave on this one.
> 
> J.


I'd have to agree.



forestfireguy;924965 said:


> I'm with Dave, coulda chipped away with the V and at least made access. I wasn't there with my story pole but looks like 10 ft high is a little bit exagerated, looks like 6-7, maybe 8..........NOT that what they did was in any way acceptable!!!!!


Ditto, no way that pile was 10' high.

Your driver had to plow through 12" to access the lot? He couldn't drive through it? I know you're in Jersey, but a 4WD truck can't get through 12"? And why not just leave the plow in the V position and make one pass through and start working on your lot?

Good luck.


----------



## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

If I read the original post correctly and what you have stated after I just want to make sure I have it right.

Guy shows up at lot and pile is so immense can not get in? 
You call 911 twice over a hours time and still no one is in lot plowing?
2 more hours go by and your guy has only plowed a 1,320 ft path in another lot you don't get paid to plow?
It took you 3 to 4 hours to start plowing said lot after all was said and done? 

I would have drove over a curb and sidewalk just to get on the lot. First priority is to get the snow off the lot. Worry about getting pissed and the other stuff later. No one that has ever hired me wanted to hear the whys of not getting something done.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

REAPER;925125 said:


> If I read the original post correctly and what you have stated after I just want to make sure I have it right.
> 
> Guy shows up at lot and pile is so immense can not get in?
> You call 911 twice over a hours time and still no one is in lot plowing?
> ...


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

I've looked at the pics a few times, and have yet to see a 10 foot tall mountain of snow. I've seen a 4 foot "mountain" of snow though.



JD Dave;924596 said:


> I still think I could have worked a hole throught the centre with my Boss V. I'm assuming the contractor had this account the previous year.


Especially if you had it on a F350 with a loaded 4 yard sander on the back:laughing::laughing:"


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ramair, you're in Jersey, you piss someone off in the snow plowing mafia?

PS Good one Palmer.


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

I knew you would like that.....


----------



## windrowsnow (Aug 31, 2008)

i would of just pushed it right back where it came from......wouldnt of been the first time nor the last. had a church push there drive and approach across the rd into my entrance to a grocery store....i pushed it right back where it came from, needless to say that was the last time there snow went on my lot.


----------



## integrityman (Feb 23, 2008)

ProSeasons;924480 said:


> Send a bill to the offending snow 'removal' company AND a bill to their client as well explaining the reason for the invoice. At the very least to get the plowing company into trouble with the client.
> 
> I bet you receive 2 checks.


 If you dont get anywhere this way then file a suit against them. Be sure to send them certified mail for your billings. This is just plain wrong.


----------



## MikeLawnSnowLLC (Dec 6, 2005)

I want to believe there is more to the story then this were your guys not getting there in a timely fashion or what? I can't see this property manager dropping you for just this one incident that was out of your control, something is just not adding up here.


----------



## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

2COR517;925204 said:


> I've looked at the pics a few times, and have yet to see a 10 foot tall mountain of snow. I've seen a 4 foot "mountain" of snow though.
> 
> :"


i thought it was just me. I bet I could get througb that with a straight blade. Just got to work at it a little.

My question is what did you do to them? My guess there is more to this story. Think about it though. Pushing across a four lane highway isn't convenient ofr them, they went wll out of their way to do this.


----------



## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

I think it is F-ed up what they did. 

But i bet they will take your bill get a good laugh out of it. Chances of you ever getting paid are slim to none. Just saying. It sucks but i wouldn't count on that bill getting paid.


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

time to start calling lawyers!!!


----------



## DSLL (Sep 2, 2004)

Good idea to take pictures of the pile when you first got there. If I was to Monday morning quarterback the situation, I think the best idea would be to call and get your tractor on site ASAP. Get the pile out of the way as soon as possible and worry about who is at fault later.


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

JD Dave;924596 said:


> I still think I could have worked a hole throught the centre with my Boss V. * I'm assuming the contractor had this account the previous year. *


I didn't get this the first time....



dlcs;925507 said:


> i thought it was just me. I bet I could get througb that with a straight blade. Just got to work at it a little.
> 
> *My question is what did you do to them? My guess there is more to this story. Think about it though. Pushing across a four lane highway isn't convenient ofr them, they went wll out of their way to do this.*


But now I do.....

Hmmmmm


----------



## Premier (Nov 20, 2007)

who did you piss off? thats what i want to know.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

The city plows did that! They probably cleaned the intersection and put the snow in you entrance. It looks like a really long push from across the street. Why would they go out of there way to push it that far and then clean-up the street so well. City did it.


----------



## s&mll (Nov 15, 2008)

I would say city aswell. Look at the two islands where the no uturn signs are. Now snow built up.... It had to go somewhere.


----------



## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

Your problem is outside of your scope of work. Call your Property Manager, let him make the decision. You carry out the work, send the agreed per hour bill to your Manager, let him worry about being reimbursed. End of story.


----------



## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

NW Snow Removal;924791 said:


> am I the only one that is considering that it may be the city plows that covered up your entry. I remember last year in chicago when we got 13 inches every one of our lots had ridiculously high snow piles at the entries due to 4 lane roads being cleared to the sides. this does seem extreme, and I agree to send 2 bills. Best of luck.


NO WAY IN HELL is a 6 or 10 wheel dump with a 12' 1 way plow is going to pile snow 6-7' high neatly piled like that....I run a 11' 1 way on my Mack Tri-Axle I plow for the state with & you might get a 4' windrow off the blade


----------



## Outd00r Maint.. (Nov 17, 2009)

that's crazy either way city or the other company would been pist off...
i think its the other company that push it there,thats just would be stupid for the city to stack all there


----------



## theonlybull (Oct 17, 2004)

TommyMac;926036 said:


> NO WAY IN HELL is a 6 or 10 wheel dump with a 12' 1 way plow is going to pile snow 6-7' high neatly piled like that....I run a 11' 1 way on my Mack Tri-Axle I plow for the state with & you might get a 4' windrow off the blade


unless the city cleans the intersections with a loader


----------



## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

theonlybull;926132 said:


> unless the city cleans the intersections with a loader


I cant remember didnt the guy say it's like a 4 lane private type road for the mall or something....Townie's aren't that stupid to put the snow in a friggin entrance


----------



## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

TommyMac;926135 said:


> I cant remember didnt the guy say it's like a 4 lane private type road for the mall or something....Townie's aren't that stupid to put the snow in a friggin entrance


I have seen towns block a lot of stuff in the past. Including putting piles in front of mall entrances (Woodfield Mall in Schuamburg,ILL) and have had others do it when not thinking or trying to impress someone.

The reason the guys at the mall were doing it was so they could load their dumps more easily to cart the snow out. I have seen this done at other places as well. Not saying that is what was done here , but I have seen it done.

What I question is his actions afterward.

Calling 911? Not getting in the lot by any means possible. Getting the property management involved. 3-4 hours of windshield time without showing pay for it. Other plow guy clearing a lot you don't plow.

There is no proof the other company did this and unless he has pictures or video of them doing it he has committed slander on these boards saying they did. So unless there is a back story where he knows for sure or the other company called him and said something and confessing to it he should retract those statements.

I don't mean to bang on Ramair but am looking at this from the view of the lot owner. I would not care what happen during the night between 2 snow plow companies. I paid for lot to be cleared and it was not done professionally whatsoever.

Retail complexes like that generate a lot of money and it is imperative that customers can pull in those lots when open and employees before that. Whomever hired him to move the snow doesn't care what happens in order to complete that task.

Seems like a lot of drama and I would bet either this lot was low-balled to gain the contract and someone got in over their head taking it on. 1-2-3-4 hours on phones crying and pitching and moaning about things don't get it done. Calling 911 was way over the top and I would bet the lot management company heard about that as well. Find a pusher on the lot even if not yours offer the guy $500 bucks to swipe the pile away and your done.


----------



## SullivanSeptic (Nov 30, 2008)

I know it sucks, but there is no way you are getting paid for this. Not that I am saying this is right, but if I was the other company and you sent me this bill, I would toss it in the garbage and make you spend 10K in court trying to get it back. You should have let your client know what happened and asked him to make the decision. Let him pay you and then he can worry about getting reimbursed. You shouldn't care where the snow came from. All you know is that you are there to move it and you will do what it takes to have it moved. Sorry but your not going to get paid for any of that!


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

i can't believe that companies do this to eachother, what a load of sh!t, and to cost you a contract too, i would appeal to the property manager about the circumsatances that made you late, i would hope he could see that you tried your best under horrible circumstances, i would also be watching for this other company, REVENGE is a b!tch


----------



## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

Bob


----------



## dchr (May 9, 2009)

REAPER;926172 said:


> I have seen towns block a lot of stuff in the past. Including putting piles in front of mall entrances (Woodfield Mall in Schuamburg,ILL) and have had others do it when not thinking or trying to impress someone.
> 
> The reason the guys at the mall were doing it was so they could load their dumps more easily to cart the snow out. I have seen this done at other places as well. Not saying that is what was done here , but I have seen it done.
> 
> ...


Well said-my thoughts exactly.


----------



## SnowGuy (Jan 7, 2006)

I would document everything with photos, times sheets, labor sheets, etc., after snow event is over send the at fault company a certified letter giving them 7 days to respond and on the 8th, day I would file a lawsuit against them and not back down. Stick to your guns. I did and won more than I even asked for. And yes, all cities have snow ordinances to cover situations like this. Good Luck !!!


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Reaper, I disagree with the muni doing this, otherwise you are dead on.

I just don't see why a muni plow driver would spend that much time collecting that much snow, and pushing it into this one particular entrance. Unless those drivers are part of the same family.



buckwheat_la;926278 said:


> i can't believe that companies do this to eachother, what a load of sh!t, and to cost you a contract too, i would appeal to the property manager about the circumsatances that made you late, i would hope he could see that you tried your best under horrible circumstances, i would also be watching for this other company, REVENGE is a b!tch


There's more to this story than we're hearing.

And not another word from the OP on any questions being asked.

Just look at his recent posts, from the Northern Tool debacle that he brought on himself to asking if an 8' 4 yd spreader will work in a short box 1 ton.

Somehow, somewhere, we are only getting a small portion of this story. And I highly doubt we will get the rest of the story.

I predict this thread too, will be locked in the near future.


----------



## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Mark Oomkes;926395 said:


> Reaper, I disagree with the muni doing this, otherwise you are dead on.
> 
> I just don't see why a muni plow driver would spend that much time collecting that much snow, and pushing it into this one particular entrance. Unless those drivers are part of the same family.
> 
> ...


I could not agree more. Reaper your dead on about driving over a curb/property to get in.
Almost sounds like this was the easy way out. Never waste a crisis ???

If I could give a small word of advice here.
COOL HEADS ALWAYS PREVAIL ! Dont fricken panic, think before you react, and for Gods sake worry about what needs to be done, not who's head is going to roll.
Panic reactions, never come out pretty, that goes for anything in life ...


----------



## DugHD (Nov 1, 2005)

City slickers !


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

T-MAN;926422 said:


> I could not agree more. Reaper your dead on about driving over a curb/property to get in.
> Almost sounds like this was the easy way out. Never waste a crisis ???
> 
> If I could give a small word of advice here.
> ...


God knows the stress you must be under with 17 mill /push. LOL


----------



## Lightningllc (Nov 23, 2009)

REAPER;925125 said:


> If I read the original post correctly and what you have stated after I just want to make sure I have it right.
> 
> Guy shows up at lot and pile is so immense can not get in?
> You call 911 twice over a hours time and still no one is in lot plowing?
> ...


I agree totally get your job done first, He could of cut a hole in that entrance. It is illegal to plow though a roadway big tickets in oakland county michigan. I know a guy got fined $1500 for it.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

jrodgers;924958 said:


> Is that location EG in MOTWN?


no its mt laurel in burlington county.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

forestfireguy;924965 said:


> I'm with Dave, coulda chipped away with the V and at least made access. I wasn't there with my story pole but looks like 10 ft high is a little bit exagerated, looks like 6-7, maybe 8..........NOT that what they did was in any way acceptable!!!!! Plain stupid! Imagine your clients tenants/employees seeing it, and anyone else who happened by(not that there were many people out I hope) think, no wonder so many people think plow guys are unprofessional idoits who charge too much.
> 
> Bill it honestly, but considering the emergency transport of the machine in very hazardous consitions for trailering anything and all the other factors you mentioned, and get in writing your clients willingness to pay the bill, then tell him you'll pursue it with the other company and property owner/manager. Set a time limit, if they don't pay collect from your guy and let his lawyer figure out the rest.


yep... i know some of you would have just cleared the lot as normal and left the monster pile out front and then acted on the surprise in the AM when the site manager calls flipping out about the pile.. "oh sir im not sure what your talking about, we had it cleared last night at 11pm!?" He was the first one i called to update a fyi.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ramairfreak98ss;927899 said:


> yep... i know some of you would have just cleared the lot as normal and left the monster pile out front and then acted on the surprise in the AM when the site manager calls flipping out about the pile.. "oh sir im not sure what your talking about, we had it cleared last night at 11pm!?" He was the first one i called to update a fyi.


Soooooo, when are we going to get the rest of the story?


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

JohnDeere2320;924995 said:


> So am I to understand that even after the property manager commended you on your above and beyond effort on this property that he still fired you because another site under his supervision was neglected? Seems assinine of him to me.
> 
> Take care. Mike


Sortof, he wasnt beside himself on the 2nd property, and fully understood all circumstances of everything involved, but he was only a property manager and the district manager that oversees multiple stores almost had a [email protected]% in his pants when he saw the 2nd store still icy, not salted in time and snow not pushed back.

Although we priced these lots what i feel is an easy profit margin, the originally dealt with Brickmans, and they must charge a fortune because to my suprise, our price was almost half for plowing of what they used to charge... sure we wanted the sites, and if i didnt, probably would have priced $100 higher per push, but that being said, we'd still make plenty on them priced the way they are. The district guy overrode the prop managers authority and called in Brickmans on his own since he decided we couldn't handle the sites. Thank god for the first event of the year in jersey to be 20" where we plowed both of these sites 6-8" each time and 3-4 times :/


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;925091 said:


> I'd have to agree.
> 
> Ditto, no way that pile was 10' high.
> 
> ...


We were 1500+ feet away from the main street. Originally we were trying to get the tractor unloaded ON the property and NOT in the main roadway behind this lot that was only plowed two lanes wide. We were forced to park a 50' truck and trailer IN the street IN a lane since no shoulders were plowed yet and leave it running with all the lights on.

No way would we get it through this other property partially plowed or not. We also had a truck and trailer full of salt to bring in which needed some passageway. And i said 12" because that was a guestimate, it was high, and there were close to 2ft drifts, we'd get something stuck driving through easy.

Next time this happens, i'd love to give all of you guys a whack at trying to put your big manly V plow through that pile. My guy tried, I tried when i got there, the fuc$ing F350 with Nitto terra grappler tires almost brand new loaded with a huge heaping over 2 yard spreader just stopped. I mean didnt start to move some of the pile, just stopped. It was wet underneath and the loader guys across the street had some big front end loaders with push boxes making this pile extremely packed.

Can you seriously try to argue that if you got hit with a hard packed snowball in the face its the same as someone throwing some fluffy snow at you that you just kicked up off the ground?

What does a cubic foot of packed wet snow weigh vs 12" of snowfall thats fluffy on the ground? Probably 10 to 1 ratio id bet.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

REAPER;925125 said:


> If I read the original post correctly and what you have stated after I just want to make sure I have it right.
> 
> Guy shows up at lot and pile is so immense can not get in?
> You call 911 twice over a hours time and still no one is in lot plowing?
> ...


no no, if i wrote it that way i was typing faster than thinking. 

Guy was plowing after only maybe 20 minutes after going through this long back entrance of office buildings. He was nearly done by the time i had him call 911 the 2nd time before he left. By then i was already on site with the machine.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

2COR517;925204 said:


> I've looked at the pics a few times, and have yet to see a 10 foot tall mountain of snow. I've seen a 4 foot "mountain" of snow though.
> 
> Especially if you had it on a F350 with a loaded 4 yard sander on the back:laughing::laughing:"


Its more than 4ft *****. Sure its not 10, its 7-8' in most spots, the tractor is about 8ft tall and it was that tall in a couple places. I was lifting snow off the top at eye level sitting in the machine and higher.

We only have a 2 yard spreader, i said it can be overloaded and maybe holds 2.5, we dont use sand either, why is that funny because some of you swear your monster v plows can push a pile like this, get real.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;925212 said:


> ramair, you're in Jersey, you piss someone off in the snow plowing mafia?
> 
> PS Good one Palmer.


yeah probably brickmans and lipinskis lol
see prior posts about all that:realmad:


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

windrowsnow;925375 said:


> i would of just pushed it right back where it came from......wouldnt of been the first time nor the last. had a church push there drive and approach across the rd into my entrance to a grocery store....i pushed it right back where it came from, needless to say that was the last time there snow went on my lot.


Well the through came across my mind, but with how much work we had to do it wasnt the first thought. And of course, whats to stop them from doing it next time?

They didnt ONLY do this to our entrance.

This mall across the street has 4 exits on this road, 3 of the 4 they plowed across the street except the main entrance where they knew the road was a 4 way intersection with an acme across the street.

Weather we had an entrance on the side of the street or not, you cant plow across the street.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

MikeLawnSnowLLC;925412 said:


> I want to believe there is more to the story then this were your guys not getting there in a timely fashion or what? I can't see this property manager dropping you for just this one incident that was out of your control, something is just not adding up here.


It was partly our fault as well, never said it wasnt. We failed to bring in salt TWICE to the other site both mornings before 5:30am, and it wasnt close in time either, hours late when people were already well filling the parking lots monday and tuesday mornings. That was MOST of why the district manager pulled the plug, but it sure didnt help we got tied up for hours on the other site.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Premier;925676 said:


> who did you piss off? thats what i want to know.


The company plowing the lot across the street is Josephs landcape from south jersey.. we dont know them, they dont know us, i havnt heard much about them and didnt know they plow that lot.

They dont know we plow this lot and should have nothing against us. Brickmans USED to handle the site we were taking care of so maybe the only guess is that brickmans joes did this to them last year and they "assumed" they still had it so figured they'd put the knife into them early this year? who knows.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

s&mll;925953 said:


> I would say city aswell. Look at the two islands where the no uturn signs are. Now snow built up.... It had to go somewhere.


lol, wasnt the city plows, the roads were stil 10' or more away from the curb to this site, the site across the street was already done with the box pushers and mounted up here.

Ive never seen the city plows push snow at intersections into a driveway, common. This is jersey, we always assume theres roadways somewhere


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;926395 said:


> Reaper, I disagree with the muni doing this, otherwise you are dead on.
> 
> I just don't see why a muni plow driver would spend that much time collecting that much snow, and pushing it into this one particular entrance. Unless those drivers are part of the same family.
> 
> ...


Why would it be locked? because of discussion? too many posts? why?

i dont run an 8' 4 yard spreader, i simply wanted to know if it was possible.

oggles, we've had TWO skids of rock salt AND about 15-20 bags of cma in the bed of the dually f350 and it wasnt too overloaded.

in NJ when i see F350s even hell f450s with their azz on the GROUND, thats overloaded, i mean having NO fender to tire wheel well clearance on the dually f350 is overloaded, not my 6000lbs in the back.

A 4 yard salt dogg is roughly 800-900lbs empty
4 yards of salt @1300lbs each is 5200lbs

Thats roughly 6k, which ive had that in the back easy before in the past.
I never said i had to heap it up or even fill it with a full 4 yards of salt, but as long as it held more than a 2 yarder, id help us salt properties without so many refills and the larger lots where we have salt onsite already, we could fill the crap out of the thing and were not even entering a roadway or going over 20mph.

Ya make it sound like i asked if i can carry 10 tons of block on my ford ranger roof man. 
Would it be practical? probably not, 
Would it be possible? yes
Would it be safe? probably not
Could i get away with using it on large sites? yes

Thats all i wanted to know.


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

well after reading all the OP's postings, i still think he received a bum rap, sure he was late getting salt in to a parking lot, and he is taking responsibility for that, could give the two saltings for free to make up for that, i think the district manager sounds like kind of a dick, but let them get brickmans bills and pay them then, ramairfreak98ss, i know what it is like to have a bad event, keep a smile on, and i would still be looking to make the offending party pay, although if your client agreed to pay for the extra work then let them deal with the situation, bill them and walk away, chalk it up to a learning experience.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

buckwheat_la;927942 said:


> well after reading all the OP's postings, i still think he received a bum rap, sure he was late getting salt in to a parking lot, and he is taking responsibility for that, could give the two saltings for free to make up for that, i think the district manager sounds like kind of a dick, but let them get brickmans bills and pay them then, ramairfreak98ss, i know what it is like to have a bad event, keep a smile on, and i would still be looking to make the offending party pay, although if your client agreed to pay for the extra work then let them deal with the situation, bill them and walk away, chalk it up to a learning experience.


Property Managers could careless around here what happens, all they want is the lot clean and salted before the place opens. They also don't care how much snow fell or what time of the night it started at. Plowing and salting is our job that's why they hire a professional to make decisions for them. I have never called a property manager before 7 am in my life unless there is a water main break or something that is an absolute emergency. You can take a couple pics and discuss in the morning. To me excuse's are not exceptable, either the job is done on time or it's not.


----------



## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

JD Dave;927968 said:


> Property Managers could careless around here what happens, all they want is the lot clean and salted before the place opens. They also don't care how much snow fell or what time of the night it started at. Plowing and salting is our job that's why they hire a professional to make decisions for them. I have never called a property manager before 7 am in my life unless there is a water main break or something that is an absolute emergency. You can take a couple pics and discuss in the morning. To me excuse's are not exceptable, either the job is done on time or it's not.


very well said dave, i have to agree with this one


----------



## bighornjd (Oct 23, 2009)

I agree on being able to work through that pile with a straight blade, especially a V. . If a tractor with a 6 ft bucket could move that pile then a 1-ton truck and plow can do it. And definately just drive through 12" or even 20" through the other lot. Just bust through one pass with the blade dropped at the most. But then again I see what looks like a 1/2 ton truck in the one pic. Sounds like someone bit off more than they could chew. And I agree no ****** would push snow across 4 lanes unless on purpose so there must be more to the story. Or the town did it with a loader. (They get paid by the hour and don't care where the snow goes as long as it isn't on the street.) I agree on taking care of the problem first and save the *****ing for later.


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

JD Dave;927968 said:


> Property Managers could careless around here what happens, all they want is the lot clean and salted before the place opens. They also don't care how much snow fell or what time of the night it started at. Plowing and salting is our job that's why they hire a professional to make decisions for them. I have never called a property manager before 7 am in my life unless there is a water main break or something that is an absolute emergency. You can take a couple pics and discuss in the morning. To me excuse's are not exceptable, either the job is done on time or it's not.


interesting philosophy, and for the greater part it may be true, however if there is no give for breakdowns, or unforseen circumstances, then at what point does it end!!! ramairfreakss98 could have just phoned the guy up and said, "your entrances have been blocked, not my problem, please do something about it" and been totally within his rights to do so, (assuming there is a clause in his contract saying they have to allow access to the lot) and then got the other lot salted and cleared on time. i feel he did mess up with the saltings, however he did what was best in his oppinion concerning this mess, and they should recognize that these circumstances were worked around , maybe not it the best way, but that it is easy to look back at a situation and for us to critisize it but hind sight is 20/20. to be honest if it was me, i would have phoned up my client, told them what happened, had someone sign off on paying me for removing it (because it isn't my responsibilty), the main thing i would have done different would have been to have made sure the other lot was taken care of, if you sh!t the bed twice on that place, that is 2 too many, and i would make absolutely sure that the lot was taken care of, a excuse could be made for the blocked lock, no excuses for the other one!!! IMHO


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

bighornjd;927991 said:


> I agree on being able to work through that pile with a straight blade, especially a V. . If a tractor with a 6 ft bucket could move that pile then a 1-ton truck and plow can do it. And definately just drive through 12" or even 20" through the other lot. Just bust through one pass with the blade dropped at the most. But then again I see what looks like a 1/2 ton truck in the one pic. Sounds like someone bit off more than they could chew. And I agree no ****** would push snow across 4 lanes unless on purpose so there must be more to the story. Or the town did it with a loader. (They get paid by the hour and don't care where the snow goes as long as it isn't on the street.) I agree on taking care of the problem first and save the *****ing for later.


for everyone who is agreeing with this point of view, you would also be the first ones on here posting/*****ing on not getting paid for doing this work, that wasn't your responsibilty, and how you are out all your time and money, etc.


----------



## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Ramairfreak98ss;927935 said:


> Why would it be locked? because of discussion? too many posts? why?
> 
> i dont run an 8' 4 yard spreader, i simply wanted to know if it was possible.
> 
> ...


More fuzzy math.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

buckwheat_la;927994 said:


> interesting philosophy, and for the greater part it may be true, however if there is no give for breakdowns, or unforseen circumstances, then at what point does it end!!! ramairfreakss98 could have just phoned the guy up and said, "your entrances have been blocked, not my problem, please do something about it" and been totally within his rights to do so, (assuming there is a clause in his contract saying they have to allow access to the lot) and then got the other lot salted and cleared on time. i feel he did mess up with the saltings, however he did what was best in his oppinion concerning this mess, and they should recognize that these circumstances were worked around , maybe not it the best way, but that it is easy to look back at a situation and for us to critisize it but hind sight is 20/20. to be honest if it was me, i would have phoned up my client, told them what happened, had someone sign off on paying me for removing it (because it isn't my responsibilty), the main thing i would have done different would have been to have made sure the other lot was taken care of, if you sh!t the bed twice on that place, that is 2 too many, and i would make absolutely sure that the lot was taken care of, a excuse could be made for the blocked lock, no excuses for the other one!!! IMHO


I could careless about the contract, broken down equipment or how much snow has fell or how it got there. My main goal would be to rectify the problem and get the job done. Broken down equipment is your problem not the property manager's. Also a big pile of snow in the entrance is your problem not the property manager's. They shouldn't have pushed the snow there but I can gaurantee the property manager could careless about it at 1 am in the morning when he's fast a sleep. When I was little my dad taught me to get the job done and he didn't care how. excuse's are for the unprepared. JMO


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

cretebaby;928007 said:


> More fuzzy math.


Yeah. Now bulk is down to 1,300 lbs/yd.


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

JD Dave;928011 said:


> Also a big pile of snow in the entrance is your problem not the property manager's. They shouldn't have pushed the snow there but I can gaurantee the property manager could careless about it at 1 am in the morning when he's fast a sleep. When I was little my dad taught me to get the job done and he didn't care how. excuse's are for the unprepared. JMO


not sure i agree with this point, the big pile there is EVERYONES problem, pushing the blame on the contractor is a cop out, if someone leaves a couple cars on a lot and doesn't move it do you have to clear under it too, it isn't the property managers fault, must be yours!!!, lmao, seriously though, my point is, maybe he handled it wrongly, but it is easy for us to sit here and judge, without being in the situation ourselves. I am just not going to judge ramairfreakss98 because i am not sure how i would handle the same situation. Also JD Dave, i realize you are one of the big boys on this site, and i have the upmost respect for anyone that can grow their buisness as large as you have, BUT, you can't tell me you have never had circumstance throw you a curve ball that you found yourself having a hard time handling or completely unprepared to handle (even when you were first starting out)


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

buckwheat_la;927994 said:


> interesting philosophy, and for the greater part it may be true, however if there is no give for breakdowns, or unforseen circumstances, then at what point does it end!!! ramairfreakss98 could have just phoned the guy up and said, *"your entrances have been blocked, not my problem, please do something about it"* and been totally within his rights to do so,* (assuming there is a clause in his contract saying they have to allow access to the lot) *and then got the other lot salted and cleared on time. i feel he did mess up with the saltings, however he did what was best in his oppinion concerning this mess, and they should recognize that these circumstances were worked around , maybe not it the best way, but that it is easy to look back at a situation and for us to critisize it but hind sight is 20/20. to be honest if it was me, i would have phoned up my client, told them what happened, had someone sign off on paying me for removing it (because it isn't my responsibilty), the main thing i would have done different would have been to have made sure the other lot was taken care of, if you sh!t the bed twice on that place, that is 2 too many, and i would make absolutely sure that the lot was taken care of, a* excuse could be made for the blocked lock*, no excuses for the other one!!! IMHO


Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here. You'll plow the lot as long as the client makes it accessible? Would you really call them at whatever hour and say "I can't plow your lot, there's a snowbank in the way"?

I really hope you're kidding. That's like a mechanic saying "I can't fix your brakes until you come take this tire off"

Guys like you spend more time and effort trying to get out of doing something or pinning the blame on someone else then if you just did the job. In the scope of plowing that lot, the 15 or 20 minutes it would take a guy in a pickup to knock that pile down wouldn't even show up........


----------



## bighornjd (Oct 23, 2009)

2COR517;928034 said:


> Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here. You'll plow the lot as long as the client makes it accessible? Would you really call them at whatever hour and say "I can't plow your lot, there's a snowbank in the way"?
> 
> I really hope you're kidding. That's like a mechanic saying "I can't fix your brakes until you come take this tire off"
> 
> Guys like you spend more time and effort trying to get out of doing something or pinning the blame on someone else then if you just did the job. In the scope of plowing that lot, the 15 or 20 minutes it would take a guy in a pickup to knock that pile down wouldn't even show up........


My point exactly. It seems as though the OP spent more time crying and trying to place blame on what happened instead of just taking care of the problem and moving on to the next site. The simple task of moving the pile should not have affected taking care of both sites in a timely matter and if so then he has more on his plate than he can chew. Sounds to me like the time wasted on calling 911, waiting for police officers, plowing non-paying lots, etc, etc, is what resulted in the lost account more than anything. Now you probably won't get paid for the work you went through anyway and have lost future work with that account.

BTW you got a better shot at seeing the Lord than ever seeing a dime of any bill you send to the neighboring property managers or snow removal contractor. Sorry about your luck, lesson learned hopefully.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

I agree the large snow pile is not the property managers problem that morning, but it sure as hell is his/her problem after it's dealt with. No need to call them when you discover the problem, just take a picture on your phone and get it moved. After all your customers are serviced then go figure out who did what and who's going to fix the problem. Ramair should get paid by someone to have moved snow he wasn't supposed to have to move. Either the offending company or the owners of the property it came from. I hope we learn who actually did this.


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

2COR517;928034 said:


> Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here. You'll plow the lot as long as the client makes it accessible? Would you really call them at whatever hour and say "I can't plow your lot, there's a snowbank in the way"?


You are damn straight i would, if someone left a 8-9ft pile in the enterance of a place i plowed. and i would take pics, and i would expect the property manager to call the police. This is vandalism/property defacement, but i think you are missing my point, i am not saying that i would expect the client to move the pile, what i am saying is the client/property manager is responsible for what happens on his property, not me (unless it is something I/my company does) so if there is a big pile of snow on the front enterance, and it isn't mine, it isn't my responsibility (as JD suggested), does he want me to deal with it, his call, is it my fault, NO!!!,

We have a bank that we do, that has a 4 tiered parkaid that gets the spots rented out, there is one spot designated for snow, then it goes over the side to another area that can hold the snow until we can haul it away (which we need the management properties permission to do), well our first snowfall this year was 18-24inches and when we showed up we started removing the snow, and knew we wouldn't fit it all in the one stall that is designated, so we went to start putting it over the edge, to find that the bank across the alley had already filled up OUR area with snow, WTF, well we did phone the property manager, apprised him of the situation, he came down, took pictures, and asked me what we COULD do before open, , we filled up 8 parking stalls instead of the 1, pushed as much to all the sides that we could, then started hauling the snow from the below storage area, the next night we got it cleaned properly. he refunded ALL the money for the month to the 8 people who were inconvineced and is sending the entire bill to the bank whose snow ended up in our area, i haven't heard a update on that situation, (and i realize the other bank isn't responsible, but i bet they get to the bottom of it). the management company understands that we weren't responsible and that we did all we could within reason, and also understands we don't work for free


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

I looked at the pictures again and have to say that is not a small amount of snow! Remember it's been pushed and condensed once. Yes, you could chip away with a plow but it would have taken some time to relocate the snow out of the way. I guess if you just needed access right away, then come back later to tidy up.


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

2COR517;928034 said:


> Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here. You'll plow the lot as long as the client makes it accessible? Would you really call them at whatever hour and say "I can't plow your lot, there's a snowbank in the way"?
> 
> I really hope you're kidding. That's like a mechanic saying "I can't fix your brakes until you come take this tire off"
> 
> Guys like you spend more time and effort trying to get out of doing something or pinning the blame on someone else then if you just did the job. In the scope of plowing that lot, the 15 or 20 minutes it would take a guy in a pickup to knock that pile down wouldn't even show up........


lmao, mechanic saying "i can't fix your brakes until you come take this tire off":laughing: how about this as a example, it is like a mechanic saying "i can't take your tire off, because you have keyed securty lug nuts and you didn't leave me the socket to TAKE it off you DUMB [email protected]" but really it is more like this, mechanic saying "i can't take do your break repair because at some point someone else was in here and [email protected] up the clips that hold your brakes together, so now i am phoning you (client/property manager just in case you didn't get the comparison) and asking you what you would like me to repair that too? if you were a mechanic would you go ahead with repairs to someone elses car without their consent??? and THEN expect them to pay for it after the fact. as a client would YOU pay your mechanic for unauthorized work??? JESH

and i would tread lightly on suggesting that i am the guy trying to get out of work, not to many guys work harder around here then me, I am the guy that gets a call when other companies have issues, and goes out there and helps them out. or when his guys get sick, works the 70hour shift to make sure everything gets done.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

If your plowing a lot and it's 1 am in the morning and there is a 6-7ft pile of snow in the entrance it's your problem. I didn't say anything about not getting paid to move it. In the big scheme of things I could really careless if I did ever get paid for it. I would like to find out who did it so I can return the favour but that not trivial at 1 am. All I care about is dealing with the problem.


----------



## SnowMatt13 (Jan 8, 2003)

Any updates on this??


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

JD Dave;928071 said:


> If your plowing a lot and it's 1 am in the morning and there is a 6-7ft pile of snow in the entrance it's your problem. I didn't say anything about not getting paid to move it. In the big scheme of things I could really careless if I did ever get paid for it. I would like to find out who did it so I can return the favour but that not trivial at 1 am. All I care about is dealing with the problem.


i agree, i would still phone the property manager and let him know, but you are right in that at the end of it all, the lot still needs to be plowed (preferably on time), as far as getting paid for it, you and i see that differently, why should i pay for something that isn't my fault, especially if it was a BIG inconvience, although i would be just as inclined to return the favor too


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

You're talking some pretty big circles here.....


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

i'm talking big circles, lmao, i guess as long as the circles are accurate


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

buckwheat_la;928083 said:


> i agree, i would still phone the property manager and let him know, but you are right in that at the end of it all, the lot still needs to be plowed (preferably on time), as far as getting paid for it, you and i see that differently, why should i pay for something that isn't my fault, especially if it was a BIG inconvience, although i would be just as inclined to return the favor too


I'm all seasonal so I get paid when it's not snowing, so it would be hard for me to charge for a snow bank at an entrance and in all honesty to a property manager that's all it was.


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

You told me you would call the property manager to let him know you can't plow the lot because there is a snowbank in the way. You told Dave you would plow the lot, including the snowbank, and deal with the issue of who pays for moving the snowbank later.


----------



## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

did anyone else catch were he said his price was about half of brickmans? he probably lowballed to get these lots and got in over his head. the district manager knew this right off and thats why he called brickman back to do it. he knew they could take care of it and ramair coulldnt. And i agree do what needs done to complete the job and worry about it in the morning, the brake comparisin is useless, snow removal is an emergancy service, time is of the essence. You are contracted to do the job it is not the managers fault that you were in over your head.


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

JD Dave;928089 said:


> I'm all seasonal so I get paid when it's not snowing, so it would be hard for me to charge for a snow bank at an entrance and in all honesty to a property manager that's all it was.


and if that works for you, that is cool, for myself, using the example of the bank, we had to haul in 3 extra guys and put them to work to clean up that mess, i didn't see me flipping the bill for that nonsense. More importantly i KNOW the company that did it, and he is a big @sshole, he would do it not to piss me off, but because it is easier for him, and he doesn't care about anything else (and has done this to numerous other companies around here) so i hope he losses his contract


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

buckwheat_la;928097 said:


> and if that works for you, that is cool, for myself, using the example of the bank, we had to haul in 3 extra guys and put them to work to clean up that mess, i didn't see me flipping the bill for that nonsense. More importantly i KNOW the company that did it, and he is a big @sshole, he would do it not to piss me off, but because it is easier for him, and he doesn't care about anything else (and has done this to numerous other companies around here) so i hope he losses his contract


What happened at your Bank and what happened to the OP is not even worth comparing. JMO


----------



## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

buckwheat_la;928097 said:


> and if that works for you, that is cool, for myself, using the example of the bank, we had to haul in 3 extra guys and put them to work to clean up that mess, i didn't see me flipping the bill for that nonsense. More importantly i KNOW the company that did it, and he is a big @sshole, he would do it not to piss me off, but because it is easier for him, and he doesn't care about anything else (and has done this to numerous other companies around here) so i hope he losses his contract


if you know someone is plowing in your properties wouldnt it be cheaper to put someone there with a camcorder and tape them doing it. then you have proof and you and/or the property manager can pursue legal action against them. after a few lawsuits they will either stop or be out of business.


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Because I'm bored, I guess......



buckwheat_la;928024 said:


> ......, maybe he handled it wrongly, but it is easy for us to sit here and judge, without being in the situation ourselves. I am just not going to judge ramairfreakss98* because i am not sure how i would handle the same situation.* ......





2COR517;928034 said:


> Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here. You'll plow the lot as long as the client makes it accessible? Would you really call them at whatever hour and say "I can't plow your lot, there's a snowbank in the way"?
> .





buckwheat_la;928050 said:


> *You are damn straight i would, i*f someone left a 8-9ft pile in the enterance of a place i plowed......





JD Dave;928071 said:


> If your plowing a lot and it's 1 am in the morning and there is a 6-7ft pile of snow in the entrance it's your problem. I didn't say anything about not getting paid to move it. In the big scheme of things I could really careless if I did ever get paid for it. I would like to find out who did it so I can return the favour but that not trivial at 1 am. All I care about is dealing with the problem.





buckwheat_la;928083 said:


> *i agree, i would still phone the property manager and let him know, but you are right in that at the end of it all, the lot still needs to be plowed *(preferably on time), as far as getting paid for it, you and i see that differently, why should i pay for something that isn't my fault, especially if it was a BIG inconvience, although i would be just as inclined to return the favor too





2COR517;928085 said:


> You're talking some pretty big circles here.....





buckwheat_la;928088 said:


> i'm talking big circles, lmao, i guess as long as the circles are accurate


BTW, I apologize if I insinuated you are lazy....I do, however get the impression that you are someone that writes every last obstacle into the contract, and try to get someone else to fix it or pay you to fix it.....


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

2COR517;928094 said:


> You told me you would call the property manager to let him know you can't plow the lot because there is a snowbank in the way. You told Dave you would plow the lot, including the snowbank, and deal with the issue of who pays for moving the snowbank later.


REALLY, i said that? show me where please!!!,(sometimes subtlety is lost on this site) what i have said, and maintained, it that it is up to the property manager HOW it is dealt with, weither he want's to pay me to deal with it, or if he want's to come out with a shovel and do it himself, BUT, it isn't up to me to make that decission for him, unless i am willing to do it for free!!!, going back to the mechanic scenario, if i am the mechanic, and i choose to replace/fix the clip problem without payment, then sure i can go ahead and do it, BUT i wouldn't do it and expect to be paid for the extra work without first talking to my client/customer/property manager.

so Yes, i would plow it, but the property manager is going to tell me he is going to pay for it first

if he tells me he isn't going to pay for it, then i am not likely to drop my plow/equipment

and if it went to court, i would get in front of a judge and tell him, "someone put this huge pile of snow in the front enterance of the lot and the property manager told me i wouldn't be paid to remove it, so he kept me from accessing the property"

this may sound like i am being a d!ck, but i think i have every right to get assurance i am going to get paid for something that is a extra, (notice too, i am not asking the guy to get out of bed, drive down and sign a work order for the extra work, a phone call and verbal assurance that he is going to deal with it is all that is required) and i again maintain, if you do it with no assurance from the property manager don't expect to get paid for it.


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Post #106...


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

2COR517;928114 said:


> Because I'm bored, I guess......
> 
> BTW, I apologize if I insinuated you are lazy....I do, however get the impression that you are someone that writes every last obstacle into the contract, and try to get someone else to fix it or pay you to fix it.....


i appreciate the appology, believe it or not, i leave my contracts pretty open, but one thing i do have in it a clause that i am not responsible for any circumstances beyond weather, or my own making that keep me from plowing a lot. in the end i have been burned too many times by people who think i work for free to not be a skeptic. all i ask is that someone in a situation says they are going to pay me. And i always make sure customer service is my #1 priority, but #2 is making sure i don't get screwed!!!


----------



## Dissociative (Feb 28, 2007)

ahh.....pee on the pile and leave it there..LOL


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

2COR517;928126 said:


> Post #106...


yes, i see that, the point of that statement though was that i would still phone the property manager first and make sure he would pay for it. and i do clarify that point in later posts. sorry for not being clearer, so for the record

the property manager would either give me the ok to plow the added pile and make sure i was paid either by him or someone else (and if he got stuck with the bill, i am sure i would give him a break too, at cost likely)

if he said NO, it isn't my problem, then i am not going to plow it, and he can find a way to get it cleared himself,

i am also going to say that i don't agree with ramairfreakss98 phoning the cops and waiting etc, that isn't for him to do, the property manager can deal with that aspect of it, once he had a go ahead from the property manager to get that open i would have been on it like white on rice.

my clients all know that i am a reasonable person to deal with, and that i always try to be about fair


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

JD Dave;928104 said:


> What happened at your Bank and what happened to the OP is not even worth comparing. JMO


not sure why they are so different

-showed up at my contract couldn't do it because of circumstances not in the scope of work
-phoned up property manager, decided on a course of action that was acceptable (and took pictures)
-executed plan to the best of my ability
-hopefully the offending party is in deep sh!t

i think that if this had been done in ramairfreakss98 case, he probably would have been ok too


----------



## sno commander (Oct 16, 2007)

truthfully i would have never called the property manager. its between you and the other company. i wouldn't send them a bill they wont pay you anway. im sure a couple guys were doing it for laughs. i do agreee it was not right for them to do that. i would return the favor wait for a nice heav wet snow and make some nice piles in the shoping cart bins  that will **** them up for hours


----------



## TonawandaNY (Aug 3, 2009)

I just want to know what causes a post to get "locked" and what is the purpose of "locking" a post?

It seems to me that once you make a post and leave that post you can no longer edit your statements, which is alot like putting a lock on it. It would be nice if we were able to edit your own posts at anytime afterwards, for the just in case you open your mouth and "say something stupid factor".

I think everybody has put their foot in the mouth atleast once and wish they could take it back. If to do nothing else other than edit their post with a 
"nothing to see here folks. just made an ass out of myself" and recind the originaly stupid remark.

Sorry to go off topic


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Posts - replies to threads - are locked after a few minutes. There are technical reasons to do with server traffic and data storage. Plus, there would be no end to the changes people would make.


----------



## TonawandaNY (Aug 3, 2009)

Sometimes I wish I could go back and change some the junk that comes out of my mouth:laughing:

Sometimes after I read it later, I say to myself man that was dumb!

It has only taken me 37ys but I am learning to keep my mouth shut sometimes. You know how the saying goes, I catch on real quick after a long time


----------



## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

JD Dave;927968 said:


> Property Managers could careless around here what happens, all they want is the lot clean and salted before the place opens. They also don't care how much snow fell or what time of the night it started at. Plowing and salting is our job that's why they hire a professional to make decisions for them. I have never called a property manager before 7 am in my life unless there is a water main break or something that is an absolute emergency. You can take a couple pics and discuss in the morning. To me excuse's are not exceptable, either the job is done on time or it's not.


ramair,
I know it sucks for you and sorry to have say it but JD is spot on. Worrying about $1500 in loader time has cost you two properties for the season.I am not saying you under bid but if you were half of brickmans price something is wrong with your price Live and learn I guess, education is expensive if you go to college or learn the hard way it cost you money.

Look at the bright side and learn from your mistake. You now know a whole lot more then you did before, even if you lost two parking lots you will be better for it.

For the record here is how I wold have handled it. 
1) take lots of pictures
2) call for a loader to come when other sites were cleared
3) Use my pick up or what ever I had with me to work a hole in the pile to get access to the lot
4) get the lot cleared and worry about getting paid later


----------



## Lightningllc (Nov 23, 2009)

Half of brickman, They are on the high end of pricing but half there is something wrong, As a property manager looked at it they went with the cheap guy and he didn't perform so they know brickman will and they pay for what they get.


Brickman subs alot of plowguys I know they would of not called about the snow, They would of pushed it back on the other guy's lot.

I would have gone around the edge of the pile and worked from one side of the pile to the other side and pushed it to the edge of the other guys lot and left just a hole on there lot!!!


1 thing property managers want is a job done and then a bill. No crybabies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:crying::crying:


----------



## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

Ramairfreak98ss;927912 said:


> Next time this happens, i'd love to give all of you guys a whack at trying to put your big manly V plow through that pile. My guy tried, I tried when i got there, the fuc$ing F350 with Nitto terra grappler tires almost brand new loaded with a huge heaping over 2 yard spreader just stopped. I mean didnt start to move some of the pile, just stopped. It was wet underneath and the loader guys across the street had some big front end loaders with push boxes making this pile extremely packed.


No crap you can't take a pick up truck V plow and drive straight through a 3'- 4' high 10' deep packed snow bank. However I am still quite confident I could have made a hole in that pile to get in to the lot. Its all in the technique, only a moron would try to hit that pile head on with a pick up.

Where were the guys across the street? why didn't you just go ***** and them to move the snow? around here on that kinda storm there is no way they would be gone and I would just be getting to that lot. I think thas a lot of your problem you got there way to late for what ever reason ( I won't speculate)

I am not trying to jump on the band wagon saying you F'ed up I am trying to give you some constructive critisim so we can learn form each others mistakes and all become better more profitable plowers


----------



## Lightningllc (Nov 23, 2009)

If they plowed and were gone that means you were late!! Straight up late you should have been there at the same time as them. If this was an important account you do them first!!!!


----------



## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

Lightningllc;929009 said:


> If they plowed and were gone that means you were late!! Straight up late you should have been there at the same time as them. If this was an important account you do them first!!!!


are you just repeating everything I say?


----------



## Lightningllc (Nov 23, 2009)

BigLou80;929034 said:


> are you just repeating everything I say?


No you brought up a good point! Pull your underwear out of your crack.


----------



## CMU07 (Sep 29, 2009)

None of this really makes sense. Brickmans used to have the lot that the OP cut in half, intentionally or not is not my arguement. Joes has the lot across the street. OP doesn't know Joe, Joe doesn't know OP. Who the hell put the snow in your entrance?
Regardless, I don't think you were wrong in handling it the way you did, it was your way, I don't agree with it, but it's not my place too. It sucks for you, but it sucks for your client that you've screwed up TWICE before as well. Three strikes and you're out. Learn the lesson and move on, and while you're doing it TRY and get paid.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

BigLou80;928944 said:


> ramair,
> I know it sucks for you and sorry to have say it but JD is spot on. Worrying about $1500 in loader time has cost you two properties for the season.I am not saying you under bid but if you were half of brickmans price something is wrong with your price Live and learn I guess, education is expensive if you go to college or learn the hard way it cost you money.
> 
> Look at the bright side and learn from your mistake. You now know a whole lot more then you did before, even if you lost two parking lots you will be better for it.
> ...


We basically did that, minus pushing through with the truck, which wasnt possible.

Im not sure why everyone keeps saying we were "half" of brickmans, if i said that exactly earlier, i was only repeating what the property manager said to me back months ago.

We are NEVER half of what another company is. We routinely get outbid by price on small and mid sized lots. This property pays us $525 per push to 4" and $265 for salt and calcium service.

We pushed the lot several times, all of them that storm. Theyre VERY profitable and if you've seen my past posts months ago, we have big overhead, equipment payments, well paid employees "even though many i feel might be worth less", because of the damage to equipment and some just in experienced in specific areas etc.

If we are at that price, im sure brickmans wasnt more than $700... in the clients eyes, we were 2-3 hundred lower, maybe they take many hours longer to complete than we do, who knows. Its not a $1k site per push and were doing it for $450 here:realmad:

Im suprised as anything that so many of you jump on the bandwagon that "were in over our heads", seriously ill post an overhead shot of this site, we've handled dozens of sites much much larger than this without issue, its not size or price that was an issue.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

So what have you figured out with this? Who did it? Who's paying for it? Will they ever do it again? What's up?


----------



## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Ramairfreak98ss;942138 said:


> Im not sure why everyone keeps saying we were "half" of brickmans, if i said that exactly earlier, i was only repeating what the property manager said to me back months ago.
> 
> .





Ramairfreak98ss;927906 said:


> Although we priced these lots what i feel is an easy profit margin, the originally dealt with Brickmans, and they must charge a fortune because to my suprise, our price was almost half for plowing of what they used to charge... sure we wanted the sites, and if i didnt, probably would have priced $100 higher per push, but that being said, we'd still make plenty on them priced the way they are. /


Obviously, the property manager told you that you were half the price of Brickman, how else would you have known that.  You said it, no one made it up. Seemed to me you believed the property manager.


----------



## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

WIPensFan;942178 said:


> So what have you figured out with this? Who did it? Who's paying for it? Will they ever do it again? What's up?


I think its still under investigation.


----------



## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

Ramairfreak98ss;942138 said:


> We basically did that, minus pushing through with the truck, which wasnt possible.


Ok I wasn't there, none of us where, the pictures you posted looked like something I could have gone through, but not being there who knows. you also worried about getting paid or you wouldn't have called the property manager. for better or worse you made your problem his problem, even if you weren't trying to. Not a confidence builder. Still waiting to hear why no one was around when they were pushing across the street? If they were cleaned up an gone home you got to your lot to late



Ramairfreak98ss;942138 said:


> Im not sure why everyone keeps saying we were "half" of brickmans, if i said that exactly earlier, i was only repeating what the property manager said to me back months ago.
> 
> We are NEVER half of what another company is. We routinely get outbid by price on small and mid sized lots. This property pays us $525 per push to 4" and $265 for salt and calcium service.
> 
> ...


you said half not any of us. So whats the price $525 or $450? if its $450 thats only 64% of thier price. Not as bad as 50% but it still seems low. I don't know your business or your overhead but it sounds like your leaving money on the table. Getting out bid means NOTHING there is always a cheaper guy and a client willing to hire that guy. Thinking that because you get outbid means your pricing is ok is dangerous especailly when its on smaller and midsize lots, a couple a joe blows with pick ups can bid on those.



Ramairfreak98ss;942138 said:


> Im suprised as anything that so many of you jump on the bandwagon that "were in over our heads", seriously ill post an overhead shot of this site, we've handled dozens of sites much much larger than this without issue, its not size or price that was an issue.


Im not trying to jump on a band wagon. Im trying to give some costructive critisim, I have been building my construction business and made plenty of mistakes along the way. If it wasn't for help from other forums I am not sure I would still be in business.

If its not price or size then whats the issue ? you failed to get two sites done on more then one occasion, by definition your in over your head. Reason aside (sh1t happens) you didn't get it done and thats your job, to make it hapen. If every other contractor in town had unplowed and unsalted lots then I might buy extreme circumstances, but I don't think thats the case.


----------



## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

I think a nicer way to say in over your head is Over capacity. You simply had more snow to move then your company could move in the time given. based on what I have read here, I think you need fewer jobs for more money per job.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Well one of the companies owners wrote us back finally. They attached a letter dated January 22nd 2010 'which we never received in the mail" to the mailed letter dated March 16th 2010. The one owner basically claimed that they had SEVERAL people and a site manager on the site at this specific time that we informed them we couldnt find anyone. My truck driver even stated that not one of their machines was operating at that time. Were they at 7-11 on break? who knows, not my problem. Even the police officer drove around the whole place to look for someone and came up empty.

They also claim that they have a HUGE lot and several places to put the snow, so it would be un productive for them to push it across the roadways.

They said, "the county trucks probably did it". Yeah ok lady, the county plow trucks took all the snow from your intersection and piled it 7ft tall with their plow truck.. ok :realmad:

In the pictures, its obvious that the roadways that were already plowed had about 24" of snow on them at most, it was even along the side of the roadway until our clients entrance, then suddenly a 7ft tall pile. I mean, anyone that plows snow knows where the snow was pushed from by the angle of the pile. Only a loader with a box could have made this pile. 

Funny thing is, i would have bet $50.00 that they made us a lower counter offer for our demand for payment, instead they insist no involvement. I had attached a couple photos as well as the police incident report. I dont think they have a lot of chance in court if thats how this is going to go.

We have photos of both sites, and the roads, their pile they made on our side and push marks on the ground across the street etc. Photographic evidence speaks 1000 words in court, along with the police incident report that verbally sides with our side of the story that the snow was pushed across the street. Unless they can somehow lie in court and claim they didnt handle the site this year, who knows. I have photos of their equipment in this site as well as address documentation of their stores and our clients address as well as their letter from the building manager of the site that had the pile.

Going to forward everything to the attorney and have him write a letter with attorney fees included for collection. If he has to take them into court, its going to get a lot more expensive than the pidly amount of what we billed them for the loader work :/ Was nice of them to respond 3 months later.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Let it go who cares.


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

JD Dave;1031651 said:


> Let it go who cares.


No kidding.....


----------



## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

Yeah I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

This will probably not be worth your time. The lawyers are the only ones that will make money off this.
Maybe when they get the first letter from the attorney they will settle


----------



## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

Wow, talk about a mountain out of a mole hill! Sheeze, don't you have anything better to do with your time? 

You know, they have good medications out there that can help with your condition. I'm just sayin...


----------



## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Sorry dude - your still picture proves nothing unless it shows a loader with an identifable employee or marking. 

The snow mafia from New York coulda sent a back hoe down there and moved snow from one lot to another - anybody could have done that, not just the company that plowed a lot close by.

Live, learn - put your head down and get through it.


----------



## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

time to let it go! you have to loose sometimes in life and this is one of them, like everyone said your now loosing money because you a running around trying to get them to pay. not worth it dude continue with your life!


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

if you feel the lawsuit is worth it, good luck, and i hope you nail the person that did it.
to all others that are saying to let it go, etc, we all know we would be pissed if it happened to us, and if i lost a contract because of something like this i might sue too (especially if i had a police report and such backing me up)


----------



## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

throwing good money after bad money.......... Forget about it


----------



## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

If I read the OP right, did he say that the other company left some of their equipment there? I would have taken all that snow and cover it up so they couldn't't have even found it LOL....


----------



## EdNewman (Jan 27, 2004)

Ugh. I had something like this last year. 24" storm just before xmas and one of the lots is a 3 acre County building. One of the County trucks came by before we did to try and "help" Pushed a big pile into all the handicapped spots against the building, opposite end of the lot where it has to go. What a pain in the @$$. A bunch of yelling at them not to help was all I got out of it. Loader was busy elsewhere and I could not bust the pile with my F350 DRW rack truck that was working the lot. Since it is only 1/4 mi from my office brought my excavator down and drove through the middle of the pile with the blade on float and spread it out enough for the plow truck to work it.


----------



## dpglandscapes (Nov 17, 2010)

EGLC;924578 said:


> Brute, last time I checked cops are here to serve and protect and I believe when a contractor is pushing that amount of snow across a *FOUR LANE STREET, ONTO AN ENTRANCE WAY FOR A LARGE COMMERCIAL BUILDING* that would be a good reason to call.
> 
> You sound like one of those lazy cops who thinks all he has to do it write speeding tickets and go through the drive-thru at Dunkin Dounuts.
> 
> lol i agree


----------

