# Adding Down Pressure To Plow



## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

So I have decided I am gonna add down pressure to my plow because it doesnt have it and I cant back drag worth a crap and gonna be using a polyethylene edge this year. Gonna hook up a 2000lbs winch to pull the plow down and get rid of the chain and swap it out with a solid bar. Is this a bad idea? I did get a quote for a back drag blade and its worth the price but I am tight on money and I would have to outfit it with polyethylene edges as well. So this option looks alot cheaper and my truck will be a little bit shorter. has anyone done this before? Bad idea to use a winch? Other options for down pressure that are better? Any feedback would be great before I start this project. Thanks.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

With a solid bar instead of the chain when the blade lifts it will cavatate the lift cylinder. I dont know what that will do? You might want to hook it all up and lift on the A-arm a couple of times and then try to lift the plow to see if air got into the cylinder.


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

Even in float mode?


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Ya, if the the return line is above the the fluid level then it will suck air into the line and Cyl. Also if you have lowering speed adjuster to slow the drop of the plow, it could slow the contour following of the plow.


I'm not saying you will have any of these problems, just be aware they could be a problem.


Is your plow a Trip edge or a full blade trip?


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

How about using the winch to pull back on the trip edge so it is vertical for back dragging


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

Its a full trip plow.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Your concept requires the winch to pull down. how are you going to position the winch attachment point to pull down? Where are you going to locate the winch itself? will your front end handle the extra weight?


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

The winch was gonna pull down on the lift bar with the solid member in place. That will work but I think theplowmeister is right, my cylinder will suck air when it goes up. I would have to some how keep the chain in place and push a member down on the lower a frame which is gonna be to much fabricating. My head hurts, think i should just bite the bullet and get the rear plow. Thanks theplowmeister you saved me from possibly screwin myself the first time out plowing.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Look into using the winch to trip the plow part way so the cutting edge is vertical. That should make it backdrag a lot better.


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

Thats a good idea actually. Would it be wise to go past vertical?


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

I think so.


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

I may also try a back drag edge and bolt the polyethylene edge on it. The problem I had last year was back dragging slush or wet snow. The plow would just make a pile and matte it down and I couldn't move it.


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

...


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

toby4492;1077226 said:


> ...


and no.... a snoway will not solve his problems 

Its kinda funny I have the exact same plow on one of my trucks and we dont really ever have a problem backdragging... Think its an experience thing


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

Without being an arse, your idea is hair-brained at best... For all of a few hundred dollars, every other plow shop in town will install a flip down backdrag edge on your plow, which you'd be a whole lot better off with, and it would save you a boatload of money compared to a rear plow. Your other option is to sell your current plow and buy one that either has, or can be easily modified to apply down pressure.


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

Triple L;1077229 said:


> and no.... a snoway will not solve his problems
> 
> Its kinda funny I have the exact same plow on one of my trucks and we dont really ever have a problem backdragging... Think its an experience thing


Since you are going to quote me, who recommended a Sno-Way Chad 
I don't live in the past, might I suggest you do the same. :waving:


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

toby4492;1077245 said:


> Since you are going to quote me, who recommended a Sno-Way Chad
> I don't live in the past, might I suggest you do the same. :waving:


dont take it personally, That bag of popcorn meant something.... Snoway's the only mfg with downpressure on a front blade... Even tho this smilie is what i think of it :laughing:


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## plowatnight (Mar 10, 2010)

speaking of the flop down backdrag piece, I was looking at the sno dogg (new to me) at the state fair and theirs is very interesting in that it appears to be an approx. 8in. by the width of the blade section of baler or conveyor belt. Its bolted on between the cutting edge and the moldboard with a shorter cutting edge on the bottom side and a couple pieces of link type chain to restrict the amount of fold (like a hinge) allowing the this apparatus to curve the opposite way of the blade for the purpose of backdragging. I was very intrigued by this invention and i was thinking of copying it for myself. You might look into something like that


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

I dont think its experience thats the problem, but I have tried everything. Normal snow days were fine it was when we got the heavier wet stuff. If I drove forward towards the garage and dropped the plow my tire tracks lift up the plow and make a hard packed thin sheet. And if I plow towards the garage and make a pile in front of the garage, I cant move it then cuz the plow just rides up over it when I back drag. I'll see if I can find anything on the snow dogg back drage edge. This whole problem started when I decided to switch to polyethylene.


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

Triple L;1077252 said:


> dont take it personally,
> 
> No offense taken but maybe next time don't make the assumption that I am recommending a specific brand to a member.
> 
> ...


Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion. Once on the site for sometime it is really easy for members to read through threads and weed out the BS from the facts. In your case the facts are you owned a Sno-Way and it wasn't for you. You sold it and recouped most of your money and have switched to Boss. If DP is such a bad thing why would the OP and many others in the past be looking for ways to put on their plows of different brands? If you want to continue your personal vendetta with Sno-Way fine have at it, just don't make me part of it as I have no dog in that fight.


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

Thanks for everything guys, I got lots of info here to make my decision.


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## plowatnight (Mar 10, 2010)

Jaynen;1077365 said:


> I dont think its experience thats the problem, but I have tried everything. Normal snow days were fine it was when we got the heavier wet stuff. If I drove forward towards the garage and dropped the plow my tire tracks lift up the plow and make a hard packed thin sheet. And if I plow towards the garage and make a pile in front of the garage, I cant move it then cuz the plow just rides up over it when I back drag. I'll see if I can find anything on the snow dogg back drage edge. This whole problem started when I decided to switch to polyethylene.


I'm thinking it's because the lighter edge took weight off the plow. I know, it seems obvious........


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Triple L;1077229 said:


> and no.... a snoway will not solve his problems
> 
> Its kinda funny I have the exact same plow on one of my trucks and we dont really ever have a problem backdragging...* Think its an experience thing*


With that kind of logic, I should be able to fly soon. I keep trying, and building experience.

Physics be damned!


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Triple L;1077252 said:


> dont take it personally, That bag of popcorn meant something.... Snoway's the only mfg with downpressure on a front blade.


 And what does SW's hydraulically controlled DP have to do with using a winch to apply DP to an Artic?



toby4492;1077377 said:


> Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion. Once on the site for sometime it is really easy for members to read through threads and weed out the BS from the facts. In your case the facts are you owned a Sno-Way and it wasn't for you. You sold it and recouped most of your money and have switched to Boss. If DP is such a bad thing why would the OP and many others in the past be looking for ways to put on their plows of different brands? If you want to continue your personal vendetta with Sno-Way fine have at it, just don't make me part of it as I have no dog in that fight.


 Tom keep that wound covered, LLL's not done with that old salt yet. 



2COR517;1077479 said:


> With that kind of logic, I should be able to fly soon. I keep trying, and building experience.
> 
> Physics be damned!


 Palmer, good luck with the flying lessons. You'll get the hang of it, you're a fast learner. But try using a plane instead of the garage roof next time.


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

It may be possible to rig the winch to pull the blade in on the correct angle and if I am going fast enough I might be able to get the front end to lift up. Then just a few hydro wings and I should be able to get the truck off the ground. No need for a plane.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

2COR517;1077479 said:


> With that kind of logic, I should be able to fly soon. I keep trying, and building experience.
> 
> Physics be damned!


so your saying a person with 5 minutes of plowing experince can plow a lot as quick as someone with say 10 years of experience? Its not a physics thing at all....


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Why don't you have one of your guys (helps if they're heavier) sit on the plow. If you don't mind me asking, how far are you back dragging, because i have a boss and don't have trouble at all! And I usually backdrag all drives that are shorter that 60'


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

B&B;1077531 said:


> Tom keep that wound covered, LLL's not done with that old salt yet.


You guys sure do get fired up quick I can tell you that.... I had no intention of starting a fight with tom or anyone over this.... settle down a little boys... ever see one of these 

O wow, LLL mentioned Snoway, he's feeding fuel to the fire.... Jump all over him....

It was only a matter of time before someone mentioned a snoway....


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Triple L;1077586 said:


> It was only a matter of time before someone mentioned a snoway....


Except it's normally created by your propensity to use SW or Tom directly to continue an effort to pry that dead Mega monkey off your back, this thread is the perfect example yet again.

Haven't seen your protege mention anything in a long long time in regards to it although I know he also has the professional composure that won't allow monkey's a free ride.


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## dumbyankee (Jul 30, 2010)

I dont know what to say here. ????????????? Why, ooooo Why


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)




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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

some people had a good point on here, if you use a winch and get an eye hood and attach it to the cutting edge and then put the cutting edge straight then you should be able to to use a theroy like dp by not using float mode? it will work if you have direct lift plow but your using a chain lift do i really dont know how to apply dp if the chain has slack, the only recomend dation i could give you would be to buy a snow way or boss and go from there!


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Or just learn to back drag and forget about adding down pressure.


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

Just gotta wait a few years and get some cash for a new truck with a hiniker c plow most likely.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Triple L;1077229 said:


> Its kinda funny I have the exact same plow on one of my trucks and we dont really ever have a problem backdragging... Think its an experience thing





Triple L;1077583 said:


> so your saying a person with 5 minutes of plowing experince can plow a lot as quick as someone with say 10 years of experience? Its not a physics thing at all....


We were talking specifically about back dragging, not plowing an entire lot. I don't care how much experience anyone has, you can't defy the geometry of the cutting edge angle. Pulling it backwards through the snow will cause an upward force. A heavier blade will counteract the lifting force, more dense snow will cause increased lifting force. It doesn't matter if you are backdragging for the first time, or the millionth time. Can't change the physics/geometry.

And when did the OP said he only had 5 minutes plowing experience?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Triple L;1077229 said:


> and no.... a snoway will not solve his problems ....





Triple L;1077586 said:


> ........* I had no intention of starting a fight* with tom or anyone over this.........


Uh huh............


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## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

Wow all this sno-way and DP talk....just buy an 810 and call it good!


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

the new boss 92;1077711 said:


> some people had a good point on here, if you use a winch and get an eye hood and attach it to the cutting edge and then put the cutting edge straight then you should be able to to use a *theroy like dp by not using float mode? it will work if you have direct lift plow but your using a chain lift do i really dont know how to apply dp if the chain has slack*, the only recomend dation i could give you would be to buy a snow way or boss and go from there!


That would not provide much if any DP do to the amount of play in the plow-truck mount. The greatest effect would be to have the edge past vertical so as snow piled up on the plow it would provide more down force.


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

I may have thought of something else, its not down force but if a dual acting hydro cylinder was placed between the lift fram and the "A" frame and the hydro line ran from one port of the cylinder to the other, then you could put a line lock in place. This may prevent the plow from riding up. Or hook up a hydro unit to power it. I think theres room to fit it.


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)




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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

toby4492;1077826 said:


>


Lol :laughing:


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Jaynen;1077822 said:


> I may have thought of something else, its not down force but if a dual acting hydro cylinder was placed between the lift fram and the "A" frame and the hydro line ran from one port of the cylinder to the other, then you could put a line lock in place.  This may prevent the plow from riding up. Or hook up a hydro unit to power it. I think theres room to fit it.


Line lock it in place would add the weight of the head gear to hold the plow down. as soon as snow started to build under it would lift the plow until the slack between the plow mount and truck was taken up, The down

line lock plus pulling the cutting edge back would be nice. The are of the cutting edge going back would ad DP.


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

These are all just ideas now though, decided to keep eveything stock and sell it down the road for something with dp or a rear pull plow. Gonna try a back drag edge and see if it helps at all, don't think that mod will detour to many people from buyin it.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Back drag edges work good. I have one on my Fisher 7 1/2 HD Trying to fugue out how to put on on my Boss V


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## plowatnight (Mar 10, 2010)

theplowmeister;1077860 said:


> Back drag edges work good. I have one on my Fisher 7 1/2 HD Trying to fugue out how to put on on my Boss V


Really Miester, That Mod. on the sno-dogg I was talking about earlier would work on the V because the baler belt bolts between the cutting edge and moldboard acting like a hinge getting rid of the need to hinge the flop from the rib,(mounting above) the cutting edge. Therefore instead of it going all the way across the straight blade, there would be two shorter ones. If you cant find what I'm talking about let me kow and I'll draw it up and have my wife help me hang it on the screen. (I'm stupid in way the precludes me from being able to do things like that myself)


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## plowatnight (Mar 10, 2010)

Jaynen;1077575 said:


> It may be possible to rig the winch to pull the blade in on the correct angle and if I am going fast enough I might be able to get the front end to lift up. Then just a few hydro wings and I should be able to get the truck off the ground. No need for a plane.


Hey Jay, I literally do this type of stuff year around (And it drives my wife crazy) . Forget about the winch. if you want to change the pitch on your blade,( if the blade trips and not the edge) you may use a hydrualic multipier or and A B selector valve and you plumb the lift hyd. lines, A to raise the plow and B to a new clinder mounted (geometricly parallel) to the trip springs. when you select the B side and hit the raise button, it will stroke the cyl. out to change the pitch of the cutting edge reducing the lift you get from the reverse ange of the cutting edge. when you switch the the selector, it will lock the cylinder out and then you can raise the plow up and down to drag the snow. when you select the B and hit lower the return springs will draw the plow back to orig. position. (I'm not suggesting you should do this, but ....................... I might ! )


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

Awesome idea, thinking like that is what I am lookin for. But the only problem I see with it is that tripping the blade to back drag. Might cause a weird wear pattern? But would work to put the cylinder between the lift frame and A frame for dp instead of beside the springs.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

plowatnight; I went to the snowdogg sight and they have nothing about backdrag that I could find. If you could draw a pick that would be great


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

toby4492;1077826 said:


>


I gotta get me one of those...


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

If you can't back drag because the snow is too deep then you should have plowed with the storm!


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## C coffey (Sep 27, 2010)

I agree I have a Sno Way 29HD on my Duramax with the down pressure and i can backdrag anything. Trick is to wing back and forth as you are going backwards


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## plowatnight (Mar 10, 2010)

Jaynen;1077884 said:


> Awesome idea, thinking like that is what I am lookin for. But the only problem I see with it is that tripping the blade to back drag. Might cause a weird wear pattern? But would work to put the cylinder between the lift frame and A frame for dp instead of beside the springs.


OK, Jay. a couple of things, I wouldn't worry a ton about the wear with a steel edge but I cant say about a poly edge. The DP from the yoke to the A frame will work, I've done it w/ an '81 Jimmy. I used a power steering pump off a toyota celica and a 12" Ram from fleet farm and picked the front wheels off the ground. I also snapped the truck frame in half directly above the front axle. ( Thats Not Good) To fix this problem, I'm thinking of a way to use the cylinder to load or unload a sliding or telescoping apparatus kind of like an automobile strut. that way the spring tension puts the pressure on the A frame but has the ability to "Give " or "relieve" rather than causing a spanning or bridge effect from the cutting edge to the rear tires. We'll continue to hash through this if you like. I love this stuff.


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## plowatnight (Mar 10, 2010)

theplowmeister;1077894 said:


> plowatnight; I went to the snowdogg sight and they have nothing about backdrag that I could find. If you could draw a pick that would be great


Hey Miester, I've convinced my (very busy) wife to assist me with this. I'll draw a sketch and hang it up in this thread for all to see my lousy artwork and if you have any ??s, We;ll work through it and maybe we'll find something to work.


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## plowatnight (Mar 10, 2010)

ajslands;1078280 said:


> If you can't back drag because the snow is too deep then you should have plowed with the storm!


Well, you're a lot of help. Sometime's mother nature is a mother falker and leave big nasty drift about four feet high and when I plow with the storm I end up burnin a lot of fuel, losing sleep and exausting all of my space. So ............ I keep the lanes passable and pull the garage doors during clean up. It sounds like a goffy system, I know but, I've had most of my customers frome 6 to o12 years and seem to get by OK.


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

For needing something with dp and give so you don't get hung up or bridge the truck, u can use a pnuematic cylinder instead of a hydro. Prolly would be really slow to fill the cylinder with air though.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Didnt the GMCs have a problem of the frame cracking anyways?


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## plowatnight (Mar 10, 2010)

OK Guys, I just got off the Phone with a guy named Chad at Crysteel Truck Equipment in Lake Crystal Mn. an there's a company that makes these and he is sending me a pamplet today. I told him I'd put the word out about this so you can contact him too if you like. There was one also mounted to a Boss V but I didn't see it that day. Here's the contact info www.crysteeltruck.com 800-722-0588


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Plowatnight, What are we looking for at crysteeltruck ?


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## plowatnight (Mar 10, 2010)

theplowmeister;1078511 said:


> Plowatnight, What are we looking for at crysteeltruck ?


Sorry Miester, the actual thing I'm talking about ain't on the sight, I thought you may want to cantact them yourself and thats why i put the contact on. In the meantime The guy I talked to (named Chad) is sending me a pamplet and I should get it in a day or so. If you guys don't want to mess w/ that. I'll get the info up on here as soon as I get it.


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## plowatnight (Mar 10, 2010)

*Backdrag kit*

OK Guys, I finally got the info on the back drag kit from Crysteel. The company that markets this is located at www.cpidivisions.com. They call it the "Draggin' Blade" . They don't have an informative site though.( disappointing) I'm going to figure out the best way to pass this info along and let you take it from there.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Thanks plowatnight 
The video shows how it works and made.


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## Jaynen (Jun 28, 2009)

Anyone ever use one before? Looks like you should be able to bolt on the polyethyne edge right on it. Anyone have any actual pictures of it? Looks like I may be purchasing one of these, http://www.edgebackdrag.com/. The iron looks really weak and the neoprene looks like it will eventually crack. But it may do the trick until I get a different plow.


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

Wow 7 passes to remove 1"-2" of fluff from the drive.......impressive


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## 6090 (Sep 15, 2003)

toby4492;1077826 said:


>


One of the things I miss about you Tom.....your sense of humor!


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## kramer56 (Oct 13, 2006)

Triple L I would have mentioned snoway for the dp since that is what he has a headache over trying to get it to work on his plow.. So why not go with a snoway 8' tripedge which is a very aggressive yet lightweight plow that really throws the snow. AND as far as my MEGA V the only thing it lacks is a better blade curl for rolling the snow away


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## plowatnight (Mar 10, 2010)

well, the whole things is, that the fellow is trying to get by with what he has for now, then get something different when he has more dough. I 's just trying to help out adding a little hairbrain to his hairbrain.


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## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

toby4492;1081709 said:


> Wow 7 passes to remove 1"-2" of fluff from the drive.......impressive


:laughing:


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