# ferrandino and son



## Flawless440

Ran into a buddy at the Home and Garden show..

Said Ferrandino owes 50k from 2 seasons ago.. Been battling them ever since..

Thought i would share the info for you new guys all excited to take on there B.S


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## SnowGuy73

Unfortunately there will always be a fresh crop of clowns willing to take the job.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Flawless440;1828301 said:


> Ran into a buddy at the Home and Garden show..
> 
> Said Ferrandino owes 50k from 2 seasons ago.. Been battling them ever since..
> 
> Thought i would share the info for you new guys all excited to take on there B.S


Nothing new there, search threads on this site. They owe us a ton from this past season too.. not that much though.

Worst part is they pay not only slow, but literally months after their first payment is due, then they start jerking around with every known reason not to pay most of invoices. So when your expecting $20k checks, and they owe $80k already, and you get a check for $256 one week, next week is $3,000 and then another $500.... i mean just punch me in the face, its less of a slap in the face then how they handle their finances.

They also then just dispute everything months after the season is over, because they're 6 mo past due, then say you didnt' comply, but now the season is over and all services done already.


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## Camden

I've been using Twitter to send them links to stories like this and they finally blocked me the other week. 

The power of social media is incredible. I'd suggest that anyone who's owed money by these companies to use Facebook and Twitter to get the attention of the businesses you're working for. Post a story right onto their wall or send them a tweet. It'll be read by someone I guarantee it.


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## SnowGuy73

Camden;1828566 said:


> I've been using Twitter to send them links to stories like this and they finally blocked me the other week.
> 
> The power of social media is incredible. I'd suggest that anyone who's owed money by these companies to use Facebook and Twitter to get the attention of the businesses you're working for. Post a story right onto their wall or send them a tweet. It'll be read by someone I guarantee it.


Good thinking Camden!


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## Bossman 92

Camden;1828566 said:


> I've been using Twitter to send them links to stories like this and they finally blocked me the other week.
> 
> The power of social media is incredible. I'd suggest that anyone who's owed money by these companies to use Facebook and Twitter to get the attention of the businesses you're working for. Post a story right onto their wall or send them a tweet. It'll be read by someone I guarantee it.


:laughing: Thats the best idea I have heard in sometime.


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## Mega cab

I also know people who are owed money from plowing Banks for them from two winters ago!


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## Ramairfreak98ss

They seem to owe everyone money...

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Ferra...y-will-not-pay-just-lie-lie-lie-Farmi-1124329

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Ferra...ices-with-no-pay-Farmingdale-New-York-1137862

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Farra...nd-lies-to-many-account-managers-Ferr-1081441

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Ferra...andino-and-Son-Farmingdale-Nationwide-1025039


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## SnoDaddy

They handled the Walgreens in our area last year. Some clowns got it and thought they were big time. Must have got paid because the clown has all new stuff.


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## Citytow

im willing to wager there are two sides to every story . some of these cases could be stuck in litigation over any reason . im not taking sides here . but if your willing to provide/invest thousands of dollars on a contract before seeing a dime , you've found your fool . 

we were called several times last year by prominent snow brokers to bid on properties mid way through the season . there are a few ways to see what their intentions are and business practices, one , by asking for a retainer bond up front before agreeing , signing ,placing any equipment or materials on site . 

if the answer is no , we turn away from them and they'll procede down the line to the next "bigtime" contractor willing to take a chance on getting paid on time or even at all. I don't doubt that a high percentage is corporate sleeze, taking advantage of the working class .

they figure it would take the same amount of funds they owe you , that it would cost you in litigatation before getting a return , if any . 

we stipulate mandatory payment by day 30 at midnight after last day of service , or the contract is null and void . as a lot of we know here , its a cut throat business , as any are these days. just another case of the sharks eating the guppies. jmo


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## wbailey244

*they owe every one*

they still owe us 20 grand for borders books in ma they sais they never got paid from 3 yrs ago


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## Flawless440

Borders is out of business.... That sucks


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## straightlinelan

Stuck me for $3500 from the 2013/14 Season for a Party City. Glad I turned down the 2 targets they offered me last season. We should rally as an industry and boycott subbing for these National Service providers. I would love to see what happens and maybe the National Companies would then hire locally.


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## john r

Why plow on their terms? Let them know your terms. The 30 day no pay walk away sounds like a good start.


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## Jack_Frost

Originally Posted by derekslawncare View Post
This REALLY shouldn't have to be a dream. I know some on here say it will never happen, but it REALLY shouldn't be that difficult. If NO REAL CONTRACTORS will take their accounts, that only leaves the "fly by nights". When they fail miserably and fall on their face mid season like we all know they will, the nationals will have to fire them and get another. Again, no REAL CONTRACTORS take the bait, they get another who can't handle it. A few times in court for slip and falls and a few stores who can't open because their lots are buried and the Targets, Walmart's and everyone who use the NSP's will fire them and go back to hiring on their own. It may take 2-3 seasons, but it WILL HAPPEN as long as we ALL STICK TOGETHER. I mean, what do we have to lose? It looks like most of you are starting to turn down the contracts because they aren't paying enough anyways, so you already aren't servicing the accounts. So why not do it industry wide anyways. IT HAS TO WORK.
I agree ! we need to expose the run around we all get as well,, we should be posting all the correspondence online ,, and showing a track rec ,,,, as I said before if we all do this and stick together ,, the CEO's will not want to be embarrassed about how the sub's who are providing customer safety are being treated ,, they will have no choice but to side with the contractor ,, not the middle man ,, I really be leave if we all do this the tide will turn in are favor ,, service will be better one on one with store mgr


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## Jack_Frost

we have made it are rule if any national provider calls and needs service ,, wel will not do it! with out a C Card , up front and we run it before we go do the work ! we bid very high for being the "go to guy" they cry about it but always call back ,,,, you all should do the same never ever take the work "check is in the mail" we treat em all as if they have bed credit ,,,,,,


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## Mark Oomkes

Some of y'all are dumber than Ferrendino's because you continue to work for them.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes;1854081 said:


> Some of y'all are dumber than Ferrendino's because you continue to work for them.


:laughing:.................There is Always a new crop of idiots to work for them.....Everybody sees stars in their eyes because they can plow a Target or Walmart until Ferrit-Dino puts it in there rear......:laughing::laughing:


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## Citytow

Flawless440;1828301 said:


> Ran into a buddy at the Home and Garden show..
> 
> Said Ferrandino owes 50k from 2 seasons ago.. Been battling them ever since..
> 
> Thought i would share the info for you new guys all excited to take on there B.S


sucks to be your buddy . Fman been in the business of boning contractors for a long long time . seems like he'll never run out of them too. LOL


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## RS69

I can't believe no one has sued them for their bad business practices.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc

CityTow,

There's only an unlimited supply of "guppies" as you put it, UNTIL THEY ALL FOLD AND CLOSE UP SHOP/GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Lets face it, the way this industry works is that when we have a great winter (lots of snow) the next winter, every knucklehead with a 4x4 thinks he needs to get into the business and get his share. But, when we have a crappy winter, (4 years ago when we only got 4.5" the whole season - our average is 24"-26" per winter) then at the end of the season, you see all kinds of slightly used stuff for sale because all the guppies lost their asses.

SOOOOOOOOOO, common sense would tell you the same would apply if all these guppies took on these national accounts and either couldn't service them properly and were fired mid season, or didn't get paid and went out of business. And believe me, us guppies talk to each other, what do you think is going on on this sight right now.

Like I said, It may take 2 or 3 winters, they will all fold at some point, because they don't have the cash flow that the big guys have to "absorb" some of the loss. Again, as I said, it might take a few Walmarts and Targets going to court because they are getting sued for S & F's. Then they will see the light, they will come to their senses and figure it may cost them a little more, but in the long run, it pays to hire a reputable company (that has the equipment to properly service their properties, has the capital and facility to stockpile salt so they aren't running out mid season and everything else that separates those of us who know what we are doing from those who don't. It just takes patience on our parts to let the fly by nights fail.

IT CAN BE DONE.
__________________

Derek's Lawn Care, Inc.
Derek Smith - President
Edit/Delete Message


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## Citytow

derekslawncare;1854128 said:


> CityTow,
> 
> There's only an unlimited supply of "guppies" as you put it, UNTIL THEY ALL FOLD AND CLOSE UP SHOP/GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Lets face it, the way this industry works is that when we have a great winter (lots of snow) the next winter, every knucklehead with a 4x4 thinks he needs to get into the business and get his share. But, when we have a crappy winter, (4 years ago when we only got 4.5" the whole season - our average is 24"-26" per winter) then at the end of the season, you see all kinds of slightly used stuff for sale because all the guppies lost their asses.
> 
> SOOOOOOOOOO, common sense would tell you the same would apply if all these guppies took on these national accounts and either couldn't service them properly and were fired mid season, or didn't get paid and went out of business. And believe me, us guppies talk to each other, what do you think is going on on this sight right now.
> 
> Like I said, It may take 2 or 3 winters, they will all fold at some point, because they don't have the cash flow that the big guys have to "absorb" some of the loss. Again, as I said, it might take a few Walmarts and Targets going to court because they are getting sued for S & F's. Then they will see the light, they will come to their senses and figure it may cost them a little more, but in the long run, it pays to hire a reputable company (that has the equipment to properly service their properties, has the capital and facility to stockpile salt so they aren't running out mid season and everything else that separates those of us who know what we are doing from those who don't. It just takes patience on our parts to let the fly by nights fail.
> 
> IT CAN BE DONE.
> __________________
> 
> Derek's Lawn Care, Inc.
> Derek Smith - President
> Edit/Delete Message


good point . this guppy knows better. been there . know that these corps have a litigation team of unlimited resources . that being established , my point is they know it wouldnt BE WORTH A COURT BATTLE for a guppy to recoup their losses. so the result is to turn around , lick your wounds and learn .

and there will ALWAYS be an uninformed,young ,eager plow jockey team ready to sign up , chomping at the bit looking at the forest thru the trees .
__________________


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## Defcon 5

Here is another thought....We have SIMA and ASCA.....There have been so many problems with this company...Why don't they stand up against them and side with the contractors that are the back bone of these associations....Instead they are too busy holding seminars on which toilet paper people should use when plowing ......These associations look pretty but they don't do jack squat to help out the contractor deal with Scumbags like Ferrendino and Sons.....To Martin of SIMA and Kevin of ASCA I implore you too to take a stand against Road Vomit such as Ferrendino.....One question to you Martain and Kevin.....Is Ferrendino a Member of your Associations....If you say Yes....Please at the Very least look into Ferrendino and take a stand against the company that has and will Screw over Contractors in the future....


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## Citytow

Unread Today, 06:25 PM

This message is hidden because Defcon 5 is on your ignore list.


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## Defcon 5

One more thing......I was a Member of SIMA and have not joined ASCA....I would rather keep my money in my pocket than support an asscociation that has members that support a company like Ferrendino......Step up boys....The Ball is in your court....


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## snocrete

Defcon 5;1854152 said:


> One more thing......I was a Member of SIMA and have not joined ASCA....I would rather keep my money in my pocket than support an asscociation that has members that support a company like Ferrendino......Step up boys....The Ball is in your court....


One of the big reasons I've never joined either


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## Defcon 5

Im sure Martin or Kevin might come on here and give some PC answer.....The only PC answer is .....Kick their sorry [email protected]# out and lets start standing up for the people that do the work and need and want to get payed for the work done......Anything short of that is BS and double talk.....


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## Jack_Frost

agreed we need to find a way to expose , and be contestant and make sure the ceo's know whats going on ,, if we can just get this to catch one we will all be in a better place ,,, with the contracts and how we are being paid ,,


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## Jack_Frost

when it come to being able to sue , I think if enough of us singed on we would have a "class action" case it would be "big big bucks " so I am sure not hard to find a top firm to take the case ,,, as I said before we all stand together call out whats being done and how much abuse is done systematically , it would be pretty easy to prove ,, and once again I feel most the CEO's would be surprised how much abuse to the service / safety provider and would prob side with us if it was to get out to social Medea
__________________


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## Citytow

Jack_Frost;1854174 said:


> agreed we need to find a way to expose , and be contestant and make sure the ceo's know whats going on ,, if we can just get this to catch one we will all be in a better place ,,, with the contracts and how we are being paid ,,


looks like you have over 600k in equipment there bigboy


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## peteo1

Jack_Frost;1854189 said:


> when it come to being able to sue , I think if enough of us singed on we would have a "class action" case it would be "big big bucks " so I am sure not hard to find a top firm to take the case ,,, as I said before we all stand together call out whats being done and how much abuse is done systematically , it would be pretty easy to prove ,, and once again I feel most the CEO's would be surprised how much abuse to the service / safety provider and would prob side with us if it was to get out to social Medea
> __________________


Find the right attorney and the proper evidence and it seems to me you might be able to put together a Rico case but that could be a stretch. At best it's theft of service on F & S side.


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## AccuCon

So what you are saying is dont work for Ferrandino and Son...Cool, got it! Thumbs Up


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## Daddyworbucks

prsportSales rep from ferrendino just left me a voicemail offering 2 amc theaters and lifetime fitness 3 locations I would entertain the work if they weren't the management company.Im not even gonna reply to the voicemail.Im gonna take your words for it Thanks for the heads upprsport


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## A.M. Landscape

I got a call last night to bid 2 target locations in NW Chicagoland. It peaked my interest... until i read these posts. I have a lot of very good (and paying) customers and a ton of hard working operators and shovelers. I have grown my business slowly and steadily over a number of years with very loyal employees. It seems criminal for companies like these to not only screw over a hard working family business and jeopardize the jobs of hard working men and women who are employed by them, but also jeopardize the service being provided to other loyal customers when the company not getting paid is forced under. 
That being said, we will not be providing bids for these properties. Just not the way we will do business.
I am, however, very grateful for the information and expertise available on this site. Thanks everyone for the network of support and info.


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## A.M. Landscape

Some of the posts in this thread express a need to stand up to companies like this one. So i just thought i would share my response to their bid request. Not much in terms of standing up to them but its a start:

Dear XXXXXXX,

Thank you for the opportunity to bid, however, we will not be providing bids to Ferrandino and Son. When I got the request, I was enthusiastic about the prospect of adding to our snow business. However, upon doing some research on your company and its reputation, I found that we cannot afford the risk involved with partnering with your company. My company strives to partner with clients, vendors, and subcontractors who’s values and codes of conduct align with our own. I don’t believe that this relationship would be a good fit.

Thanks for your consideration.


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## Ne1

A.M. Landscape;1857257 said:


> Some of the posts in this thread express a need to stand up to companies like this one. So i just thought i would share my response to their bid request. Not much in terms of standing up to them but its a start:
> 
> Dear XXXXXXX,
> 
> Thank you for the opportunity to bid, however, we will not be providing bids to Ferrandino and Son. When I got the request, I was enthusiastic about the prospect of adding to our snow business. However, upon doing some research on your company and its reputation, I found that we cannot afford the risk involved with partnering with your company. My company strives to partner with clients, vendors, and subcontractors who's values and codes of conduct align with our own. I don't believe that this relationship would be a good fit.
> 
> Thanks for your consideration.


Good for you! I wish more companies would take a stand against these NSP's and send a message that were not going to take all the bs they make people go through.


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## Camden

A.M. Landscape;1857257 said:


> Some of the posts in this thread express a need to stand up to companies like this one. So i just thought i would share my response to their bid request. Not much in terms of standing up to them but its a start:
> 
> Dear XXXXXXX,
> 
> Thank you for the opportunity to bid, however, we will not be providing bids to Ferrandino and Son. When I got the request, I was enthusiastic about the prospect of adding to our snow business. However, upon doing some research on your company and its reputation, I found that we cannot afford the risk involved with partnering with your company. My company strives to partner with clients, vendors, and subcontractors who's values and codes of conduct align with our own. I don't believe that this relationship would be a good fit.
> 
> Thanks for your consideration.


Nicely done. :salute:


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## sectlandscaping

A.M. Landscape;1857257 said:


> Some of the posts in this thread express a need to stand up to companies like this one. So i just thought i would share my response to their bid request. Not much in terms of standing up to them but its a start:
> 
> Dear XXXXXXX,
> 
> Thank you for the opportunity to bid, however, we will not be providing bids to Ferrandino and Son. When I got the request, I was enthusiastic about the prospect of adding to our snow business. However, upon doing some research on your company and its reputation, I found that we cannot afford the risk involved with partnering with your company. My company strives to partner with clients, vendors, and subcontractors who's values and codes of conduct align with our own. I don't believe that this relationship would be a good fit.
> 
> Thanks for your consideration.


I was going to tell them to kick rocks but I might just steal that. I have a thread in the bidding forum about a toys r us that ferrendino called about. I was going to send my own price back but I read up on them and I do not need to deal with this ****.


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## john r

People or companies who knowingly STEAL from others will some how eventually pay. Weather it be monitarily or find themselve(s) wrapped around a pole who knows. Karma is and can be a real thorn.


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## Gman1200hd

Hi I know I'm new on hear but unless you inherited your business you all started out as "plow jockeys " and had to grow your business from the ground up . That being said all the knowledge and expertise in hear is great don't want to step on any toes just my 2 cents


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## Daddyworbucks

They just left me a message on my voicemail.im not even gonna respond they can only screw ya if you allow them.xysport


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## Jack_Frost

So lets start a page on this site ,, I think it may have been said before ,," Paid on time , excuses of why we are not getting paid , promises broken , contracts not full filed , " I think allot " not all " of the NSP's would prob hate the fact all of us would literately be on the same page exposing them for what they do , and doing so we will prove they do this as a stranded practice to the subs ,, this will give us all a track record to prove the actions of the fern and when having to file a lawsuit it will give everyone a base that can be proven to have a complaint based on ussmileyflag


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## Jack_Frost

I started a page under the NETWORKING , on home page please look it up tell your friends lets try to get something going positive , for us having to deal with abuse of contracts / and payentsussmileyflag


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## john r

Got a call from them today to do 3 Rite Aids. Ive been watching these stores for years now and always the same contractor doesn't show up after either 1 or 2 years of service.


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## Daddyworbucks

:It's time to circle the wagons as they say.on this one....


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## PPMan

Pretty late for these ***** to be calling around to round up contractors isn't it? Let's hope they can't cover their business and lose a few of these companies.


I knew they were full of **** when they called me a few years ago and checking out their website, they were using one of my pics on their site! Did an image search last winter again and now my pic is all over the web and peoples pages, guess I'm a better photographer than I thought!


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## Citytow

same idiot Chris from the King of Prussia office keeps blowing up my phone. 
just relentless. its like the guy who wants to borrow money and has no intentions on returning it.


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## xjoedirt55x

I have a card from one of the district guys from last year.... Guess who is going to get random phone calls?????


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## SnowGuy

They screwed my son's company out of a bunch of money !!!


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## Citytow

call # 13 ......getting to the nittygritty. word has it they're behind on every property around . cant seem to fill positions for properties. LOLOLOL

they may just be getting the hint . dont give in , you will not get paid .


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## john r

I can't wait to see (if they find some one) to do the 3 Rite Aid stores in my area. If they find a sucker I will help my competition and let them know they are providing a free service.


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## ALC-GregH

PPMan;1859636 said:


> Pretty late for these ***** to be calling around to round up contractors isn't it? Let's hope they can't cover their business and lose a few of these companies.
> 
> I knew they were full of **** when they called me a few years ago and checking out their website,* they were using one of my pics on their site! *Did an image search last winter again and now my pic is all over the web and peoples pages, guess I'm a better photographer than I thought!


You could demand they remove it or suffer a law suit.


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## Citytow

90% of legit companies cant afford to even agree/sign their vendor packet due to silly indemnities ,responsibilities and liabilities.
its almost frightening to read . if they had their way , you'd be pulling 200' of previously damaged island curb in the spring . pictures or not .


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## jcoria

I got a call from them yesterday, for fun I told them to send me what they got. A Santander bank near me for $2480.00 for the season. 1.3 acres unlimited plows and salt with 1" trigger and bare pavement policy. I'm still laughing


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## nepatsfan

String them along and pretend like you're interested. Pull the same bs with them that they pull with everyone else. I signed that contract and sent it back, let me check on that. Wait for another call......that was sent twice, are you sure you didnt get it? Then send half the contract back without the signature part or something. Screw these guys like they screw everyone else


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## Camden

nepatsfan;1862062 said:


> String them along and pretend like you're interested. Pull the same bs with them that they pull with everyone else. I signed that contract and sent it back, let me check on that. Wait for another call......that was sent twice, are you sure you didnt get it? Then send half the contract back without the signature part or something. Screw these guys like they screw everyone else


LOL - That's fantastic.


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## snowplower1

They called me last week told them the only way im doing it is pre-payment they said no i said send your contract over ill at least look at the price. $5800 dollars for a lot that will take less than a half hour to plow and 20 minutes to shovel. 1100 for another one that is just sidewalks that wont take more than 5 minutes each time. i am considering it but i think i will have to have proof im gonna get paid cause i told him upfront im not playing there games so if they agree to do it the right way ill do it but the only reason im considering it is because its a nice bit of money and if they tried messing with me i wont lose any money on it cause youre really not spending much time there.


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## nepatsfan

^^^another guy that believes it won't happen to him. This is why they stay in business. Good luck


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## John_DeereGreen

I'm not on their harrasment list, but I just sent an inquiry email about becoming a subcontractor. I'll play some games with them too, if they haven't already found suckers.


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## john06duramax

We have worked for Ferrandino and National Maintenance Systems on several occasions. Nice people, always got paid in fact I had an account manager go out and try to get much more money for account because it was ridiculously under priced. they do like to wait every day of the 45 days however. If you follow the contract and log in and out when your supposed to, they pay. I find it hard to believe we are the only ones to not get screwed over.. Just thinking aloud here....


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## lilweeds

You're not. They are slow and the prices aren't great. I don't do much for them but I always get paid.


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## absolutely

We just were contacted for a 10 acre sears store for $20,900 for the season and a 3.3 acre Kmart for $6900. Wow, walks, bare pavent. I'm better giving them 5k and walk away and I would be better off.


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## John_DeereGreen

absolutely;1862286 said:


> We just were contacted for a 10 acre sears store for $20,900 for the season and a 3.3 acre Kmart for $6900. Wow, walks, bare pavent. I'm better giving them 5k and walk away and I would be better off.


Haha, I'd counter offer and see what the reaction is. You know they're getting 35K out of the Sears, and 15K out of the Kmart.


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## Longae29

You guys that have time on your hands to sot around and play games with these guys, kudos to you. You must really be running some top notch organizations to have time on your hands to kill.

I've had long term relationships with several NSPs (never worked with Ferrandino) always been paid fairly and in full. Also turned down plenty of work because the money isn't there. But I tell them politely and explain why it doesn't work, and get calls for the next opportunity. Some people need to grow up.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

absolutely;1862286 said:


> We just were contacted for a 10 acre sears store for $20,900 for the season and a 3.3 acre Kmart for $6900. Wow, walks, bare pavent. I'm better giving them 5k and walk away and I would be better off.


That is really ridiculous..


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## sectlandscaping

Still getting calls from them for a Toys R Us. Still trying to pay a 1/5 of going rate. Expecting snow/rain mix tonight. Sooner or later there going to have to pay accordingly or get cleaned out by lawyers.


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## Citytow

cant hurt ferrandino , they can only hurt you .cheaper for them to use their insurance bond (penalty) than pay contractors


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## dieselboy01

They have called me once last week and once this week about a Target a few towns over and left two messages also. Because of all the warnings everyone posted about F&S last year I just deleted the voice mails. I don't see why anyone would put there business at risk with this much negative feed back.

I agree that taking a stand and knocking F&S down and taking back these stores is what needs to happen so this can be a more profitable business again.


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## Citytow

its the same issue as when wallymart , target,lowes ,verizon ,comcast and the homedumpster put all the mom n pop stores out of business .

corporate monopoly granted and brought to you by Capitalism and your federal government . 

cant fight city hall , atleast not anymore . people are too scared to organize and go union or even boycott for fear of losing their current positions . unions were formed just for these reasons, decent wages , workforce conditions , and have shot themselves in the foot by pricing them out of any type of business .


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## PPMan

Just got a call from them for a Mimis café. This is why I google all the info everytime a business proposition comes up.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

They have a TON of accounts, thats an understatement for some areas.... they're kings of BSers... so they bs their clients to gain large corporate accounts in the US, and then rip the contractor too.


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## jhenderson9196

Citytow;1868305 said:


> its the same issue as when wallymart , target,lowes ,verizon ,comcast and the homedumpster put all the mom n pop stores out of business .
> 
> corporate monopoly granted and brought to you by Capitalism and your federal government .
> 
> cant fight city hall , atleast not anymore . people are too scared to organize and go union or even boycott for fear of losing their current positions . unions were formed just for these reasons, decent wages , workforce conditions , and have shot themselves in the foot by pricing them out of any type of business .


You do realize when contractors get together to set prices it's called collusion?


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## Jack_Frost

it seems to me that all the big box stores read this stuff and know it happen to the subs ,, same on them if they do and allow this to happen ,, one thing I know the big box stores hate is bad press ,, you all should go on your face book and twitter and other sores to make this front and center ,, expose the truth ,, we all have free speech embarrass all the nsp , and the big box stors and others who hire the bad nsp's I think you will see a chance if everyone would just expose to the shopping public knows as well ,,,, I have found a few GOOD nsp's who pay as agreed and fair , So I hope the bad ones exposed will be let go ,,,, and more good nsp's will treat everyone better


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## Ramairfreak98ss

sectlandscaping;1867828 said:


> Still getting calls from them for a Toys R Us. Still trying to pay a 1/5 of going rate. Expecting snow/rain mix tonight. Sooner or later there going to have to pay accordingly or get cleaned out by lawyers.


Its crazy how a $500 salting service or $1500 plow for 6" of snow is normal, and yet they'll offer no more than $150 for salt and $725 to plow... or ive seen them offer 30" storm rates of $12,000 but the 4" storm rate is $125 lol, every yuppie jumps at the $12k and then bills $125x4 for the season!


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## danknight163

*this is what you do to get your money or screw them*

I am out $11,000 plus dollars and was told that if I don't go trim, and repair everything they won't pay me for my services. which I'm currently not being paid for anyways. I contacted my attorney which advised me i'm not longer in a contract with this company and not to perform the work. My attorney stated he would put a lein on all 11 locations and this really pissed Farrandino and Sons off...

I'm sure i'll never see this money but I wanted to let other companies know this contractor is one NOT to work for, times are tuff and the economy sucks.. Most of us have familes to support and really look forward to getting paid after a job was performed... Do not fall for there bull sh*t!! They are nothing but scammers....


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## danknight163

*Up date up date Farrandino and Sons*

THESE JERK OFF ARE STILL IN BUSINESS AS WE SPEAK PLEASE DONT SING UP WITH THEM YOU WILL GET BURNT THAT IS A FACT !!! OR DO WHAT I DID LAST YEAR I SIGN UP FOR 4 BIG LOTS AND GAVE THEM A BODGES CONTRACT :laughing::laughing::laughing: THEN NEVER SHOWED THEY LOST THE CONTRACT FOR THAT PLACE LAST YEAR wesport


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## sven1277

I am happy to report that after reading all the posts about Ferrandino, when they called me about landscaping services on 8 CVS's mid season, I strung them along for a week and ultimately said no. I asked the sales rep about their poor payment history and he was pretty defensive. It seemed like a sore subject for him. The bad press is working a little. I won't contract with them.


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## sectlandscaping

another company called me about the toys r us. F&S lost that one trying to pay contractors a few hundred a storm.


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## 1olddogtwo

http://www.ferrandinoandson.com/videos/snow-removal-rfp-best-practices-2014/


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## Masssnowfighter

danknight163;2020231 said:


> THESE JERK OFF ARE STILL IN BUSINESS AS WE SPEAK PLEASE DONT SING UP WITH THEM YOU WILL GET BURNT THAT IS A FACT !!! OR DO WHAT I DID LAST YEAR I SIGN UP FOR 4 BIG LOTS AND GAVE THEM A BODGES CONTRACT :laughing::laughing::laughing: THEN NEVER SHOWED THEY LOST THE CONTRACT FOR THAT PLACE LAST YEAR wesport


That is the winning strategy right there!!! I do the same thing to them, they always call for emergency services because whoever they hired quit. I always tell them I will be right there then never show up. Then I like to drive by a few hours later so that I can get a good laugh when it is the only parking lot in town that is still covered in snow


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## sven1277

Masssnowfighter;2024236 said:


> That is the winning strategy right there!!! I do the same thing to them, they always call for emergency services because whoever they hired quit. I always tell them I will be right there then never show up. Then I like to drive by a few hours later so that I can get a good laugh when it is the only parking lot in town that is still covered in snow


That's awesome


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## ProEnterprises

sectlandscaping;2024034 said:


> another company called me about the toys r us. F&S lost that one trying to pay contractors a few hundred a storm.


What CO is doing CT Toys R Us this year? I lost mine last year because of Ferrandino. I was wondering if you know who had it now.


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## SnowGuy

My son's company plowed for them and they screwed him. BAD PEOPLE TO WORK FOR !!!!!!!!!


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## cutshortlandscaping

i know someone already asked this but i didn't see a answer how have they not been sued for not paying and are there any companies that contract like them but are actually good to work with and do pay good money on time


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## jhenderson9196

The contract most fools sign pretty much prevents you from suing them. There are far too many hoops to jump through. Next you have to sue in their jurisdiction,which is pretty much cost prohibitive. As for other companies, they're LLCs for the most part. That means they have no company assets, hence nothing to get in court. I haven't heard of many folks working for a national and getting out without some sort of loss.


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## Masssnowfighter

Ferrandino plays dirty, I strongly encourage everyone to fight back dirty with them. If they call to offer work ,verbally agree to do it then never show up. It seems like every year they call to offer contracts the day before the first storm of season which is the ideal time to use this tactic. Making them look bad is much more satisfying then just telling them no to there ridicuously low prices


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## Ramairfreak98ss

SnowGuy;2025982 said:


> My son's company plowed for them and they screwed him. BAD PEOPLE TO WORK FOR !!!!!!!!!


Ferrandino doesn't pay anyone, and is an equal opportunity offender... they jerk everyone around and illegally short every contractor that works for them, some just more than others. Some guys are owed $500 and others $100,000.

They should be shut down for fraudulent contracting.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Masssnowfighter;2026154 said:


> Ferrandino plays dirty, I strongly encourage everyone to fight back dirty with them. If they call to offer work ,verbally agree to do it then never show up. It seems like every year they call to offer contracts the day before the first storm of season which is the ideal time to use this tactic. Making them look bad is much more satisfying then just telling them no to there ridicuously low prices


yep, they called us March of this year, keep in mind they contracted NOTHING to us this past season, nor did i want to take anything from them, they owe us a ton of $$$ from LAST season 2013-2014 still...... They had the balls to call for an "emergency service" , really? i said you coudn't pay us enough just for the hassle, and then even if you said we'll pay you $5 grand to go cover this site now that the storm is over, the likelyhood they'd pay is slim to none, no thanks, your word means zilch.

Meanwhile, only a month prior, they wanted to know if we'd agree to take on a few sites we had the year prior, and they only ask that we sign off on an agreement to not hold them liable for payment from "disputed services" from last season.. I said so you want me to take on these few accounts worth a total sum of what $10 grand so i release you of owing us 4-5x that amount? What math class did you graduate from !#@^$#@^. Ferrandino & sons is going to have a class action suit against them in the next few years, it wont surprise me.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

jhenderson9196;2026069 said:


> The contract most fools sign pretty much prevents you from suing them. There are far too many hoops to jump through. Next you have to sue in their jurisdiction,which is pretty much cost prohibitive. As for other companies, they're LLCs for the most part. That means they have no company assets, hence nothing to get in court. I haven't heard of many folks working for a national and getting out without some sort of loss.


correct, SMS ASSist Chicago, IL "cook county"
Cherry Logistics "same" even though they're not in chicago
Ferrandino & Sons, NY state "you need an attorney that practices in NY state"

They KNOW they can short you 5-10 grand and its going to cost you that much to go after them. Once enough companies get judgments against them over 3-5 years, they just fold and bankruptcy.. its fraud. The owners should be arrested for fraud as its nothing else than a fox's business in a sheep's building.


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## cutshortlandscaping

why doesn't someone rewrite there contract exactly the same but change some of the terms and add a little section stating that they have to pay you no matter how ****** of a job you do send it back they probably don't reread there contracts over after you signed so when they sign they have to follow the clauses you added in haha


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## chiaone

They are jerking us around too, with all types of excuses. Then call to see if want other sites this season.Sure I'll work for free again


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## bartolini

I sued borders and them inmediateley in small claims b4 borders went bankrupt. They paid me to keep borders from responding.


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## bartolini

I could sue them again and get paid but i'm tired of them. They desperately rehired us for 10 plus pharmacy stores 3yrs ago one snow night. Of course i had the resources to knock them out all over my county. By 8am it seemed the ******** replacement b team guys were catching up to to us. Long story short we never got paid and bailed out f&s bc they jerked off the early snowfall season with b team guys for cheap. Have to say though...billed over a $100,000 in pharmacies and did get paid. Granted, we are a billing machine with gps tracked trucks and attention to all details.


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## mnguy

I just got an email from them with a bid sheet for a Shopko There sheet stated $ 8500 I laughed and laughed I would be triple that price if not more for that sight. I quickly emailed back and told them that plus because of there neg reviews for not paying contractors we wouldn't be interested.


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## abbe

mnguy;2032063 said:


> I just got an email from them with a bid sheet for a Shopko There sheet stated $ 8500 I laughed and laughed I would be triple that price if not more for that sight. I quickly emailed back and told them that plus because of there neg reviews for not paying contractors we wouldn't be interested.


Out of curiosity how many acres is a shopko? And was that all inclusive, aka seasonal? Unreal


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## Masssnowfighter

I stumbled across this site, it was pretty entertaining to read some of the reviews of F&S given by the employees that actually work there. Sounds like they treat there own just as bad as they treat us plow guys

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Ferrandino-and-Son-Reviews-E642254.htm


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Masssnowfighter;2032172 said:


> I stumbled across this site, it was pretty entertaining to read some of the reviews of F&S given by the employees that actually work there. Sounds like they treat there own just as bad as they treat us plow guys
> 
> http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Ferrandino-and-Son-Reviews-E642254.htm


thats crazy, not surprising.. that they have dozens of managers and past employees with a ton of negative things to say about them.


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## Camden

Masssnowfighter;2032172 said:


> I stumbled across this site, it was pretty entertaining to read some of the reviews of F&S given by the employees that actually work there. Sounds like they treat there own just as bad as they treat us plow guys
> 
> http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Ferrandino-and-Son-Reviews-E642254.htm


I bet those 5 star reviews are placed there by upper management of F&S. I enjoyed reading through that.


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## Masssnowfighter

This is actually hilarious to read!!!! I pasted in a few of the better reviews from current and former F&S employees. Enjoy!!!

Pros
Free Pretzels on Friday. Paid with our vendors money that they think they are going to get in "60 days" can't think of anything else

Cons
Where do I start? The workload is unattainable . It's impossible. Most accounts are stressful, and you have to juggle between cold calling, sales , true account management , compliance, and invoice processing. Literally, it's impossible. The payment is horrible for vendors and I felt bad sending people knowing they weren't gonna get paid anytime soon or at all. I can't see the company having any vendors to work with in the next 5 years . It's very low level stuff. 
Cons
The big messages lately is to bring in more money, and not only is that with clients & vendors (e.g. not re-hiring good, pricier vendors, which would make OUR lives easier, b/c then we wouldn't have to find someone to clean up when the cheap, crappy vendors fail and our clients yell at us), but it's very clear that by severely reducing o/t opportunities, they are trying to save about $5k per Acct Manager (X 200). Again, ZERO INCENTIVE WHATSOEVER. The fat cats at the top wants everyone who works for the company to personally take hits and losses, so they can line their pockets. NONE of the staff cares to make the rich richer


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## Masssnowfighter

For anybody stupid enough to still work for these clowns this winter, when you are stressing out if u will ever get paid you can enjoy the thought of the F&S staff feasting on pretzels on your dime :laughing:

 Ferrandino


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Camden;2032634 said:


> I bet those 5 star reviews are placed there by upper management of F&S. I enjoyed reading through that.


YES, no doubt, as SMS assist did the same thing online a couple years ago, creating alias names on plowsite contradicting the negative info i was spilling out for other members here so they wouldn't fall into the same non-payment trap.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Masssnowfighter;2032665 said:


> For anybody stupid enough to still work for these clowns this winter, when you are stressing out if u will ever get paid you can enjoy the thought of the F&S staff feasting on pretzels on your dime :laughing:
> 
> Ferrandino


Yeah, its as sad reading their employees reviews as what their vendors and clients go through supplying the services "us".... this one says it all though..

The workload is unattainable . It's impossible. Most accounts are stressful, and you have to juggle between cold calling, sales , true account management , compliance, and invoice processing. Literally, it's impossible. The payment is horrible for vendors and* I felt bad sending people knowing they weren't gonna get paid anytime soon or at all. I can't see the company having any vendors to work with … * I know people on facebook that worked there and left mid season for the exact reasons , verbatim..... they screw over everyone then claim no one will sue them.


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## cutshortlandscaping

bartolini;2030875 said:


> I sued borders and them inmediateley in small claims b4 borders went bankrupt. They paid me to keep borders from responding.


Why doesn't everyone do this


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## ponyboy

How much did u get from small claims court


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## straightlinelan

Ferandino still owes me $4500 from 2 years ago. Biggest con artists going. 

Please resend paper work over and over. Checks in mail etc.


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## Lcmains1

Got a call today from theses guys. They need 2 lots done in our area. $480 a month for each with a 2" trigger, rock salt on the lot and CaCl on the walks. $480? What a joke. I think I'm going to sting them along for a couple week and play some games.


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## Mark Oomkes

Lcmains1;2037956 said:


> Got a call today from theses guys. They need 2 lots done in our area. $480 a month for each with a 2" trigger, rock salt on the lot and CaCl on the walks. $480? What a joke. I think I'm going to sting them along for a couple week and play some games.


How big are the lots?


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## Longae29

Lcmains1;2037956 said:


> Got a call today from theses guys. They need 2 lots done in our area. $480 a month for each with a 2" trigger, rock salt on the lot and CaCl on the walks. $480? What a joke. I think I'm going to sting them along for a couple week and play some games.


Don't forget shoveling around the entire building inside the fenced in area. (I'm assuming kindercares) way too much work and demanding directors to even consider doing them for the $ available.


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## straightlinelan

String them along and no matter what they offer you don't do it!!!! Let me repeat that, DON'T DO IT!!!

I did a small Party City for them. The first year didn't snow much and finally got paid by AUGUST.

The second year I was like they suck at paying but mid season money always helps. He got 83" of snow and only got paid for about 40% of the invoice. It was a fight and a struggle. It was threats, stop of service, threats from them on breach, counter threats of breach for no payment, threats that if they had another contractor do it they would take from the funds they owe us. Sue them? Ha. Read that 30 page contract they make you sign, goes to arbitration blah blah blah. Oh, and the paper work you have to do is a joke. Might as well hire a full time office person just to keep up with Feranidino paper work.

Think I am a bitter vendor that maybe did a crappy job? Nope, never had one complaint but I understand people might be skeptical, after all who goes I around and says I do crappy work, right?

Check out www.glassdoor.com. Even their employees say their job is to screw over contractors and lie. Oh the check is being cut Tuesday, oh didn't get your paperwork etc. at one point we were faxing in 87 pages of documents. They told us that was now unacceptable and had to be scanned and emailed.

Run like the wind...if you do take them on, call me when your truck gets repoed cause they didn't pay you. Always looking for good equipment. Lol


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## Lcmains1

Longae29;2037991 said:


> Don't forget shoveling around the entire building inside the fenced in area. (I'm assuming kindercares) way too much work and demanding directors to even consider doing them for the $ available.


Never even thought about the fenced in areas. Damn, what a joke!


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## Ramairfreak98ss

straightlinelan;2036785 said:


> Ferandino still owes me $4500 from 2 years ago. Biggest con artists going.
> 
> Please resend paper work over and over. Checks in mail etc.


Be glad its only 4500.. it takes years to sue these companies and tons of up front costs...


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## inferno13xx

Anyone hear of RWC DBA Outside Unlimited? Work for them? Feedback?


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## lowflyn

You can add Northwest companies to this list. We were paid the majority of what was owed but there is still a 5 digit outstanding balance for them. I still made enough to make it worth it.

I'm also secretly hoping they call me again this year. I can string them along for quite a while. I doubt they will since we have filed suit at this point but one can hope.


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## cutshortlandscaping

How do they find your guys numbers to call you


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## Longae29

cutshortlandscaping;2040665 said:


> How do they find your guys numbers to call you


Don't worry, you don't want to work for them anyway.


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## Mark Oomkes

cutshortlandscaping;2040665 said:


> How do they find your guys numbers to call you


It took a year or two before they stopped calling me.

I wonder if they troll plowsite.com and see my comments. Lol


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## Ramairfreak98ss

ponyboy said:


> How much did u get from small claims court


probably less than the legal fees cost.


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## SnoFarmer

guys must be board, 
going back 2yrs to find a post to like....:terribletowel:


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## FredG

Sore subject, This is a new season, How about putting some effort in not getting plucked by a NSP. Don't support these box stores that falls for this NSP sham. This is a typical reason why there is prevailing wage and unions. These NSP's need to be regulated by somebody.

You don't get paid in 37 days or less don't service and boycott the lot. Run the next clown off unless he has a retainer from the NSP. You just can't keep working hoping for a check.


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## PriorityCleanin

I have a court date with northwest. should be exciting.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

PriorityCleanin said:


> I have a court date with northwest. should be exciting.


Northwest, the one from like north carolina? i thought they closed down a couple years back? We did a few day cares for them back in the 12/13 season i think. All was fine until they got way past due. Didn't receive one payment and by i believe March 5th, we pulled the plug. They owed a ton on 4-5 accounts. We told all the accounts we would not be there to provide service until Northwest paid, they didn't so we never showed up. Northwest never called anyone else either, the daycares were just flush with 8" of snow a week later and pissed.. they did pay us most of it but still shafted us about 2 grand they later said they didn't know about and can't do anything about. They damn well knew, we invoiced for it.


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## PriorityCleanin

I plowed backs for them last year. Paid only half to me. In the process of suing them now.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

get in line, i think everyone is suing them..


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## lowflyn

PriorityCleanin said:


> I have a court date with northwest. should be exciting.


Best of luck...we still haven't received anything and have been tied up in legal fees and court costs since 2015.


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## leigh

I should have become a lawyer,seems to be the only ones making any money in the snow industry.


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## iceyman

leigh said:


> I should have become a lawyer,seems to be the only ones making any money in the snow industry.


If you work for a nsp thats tru


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## NYPD 6973

Flawless440 said:


> Ran into a buddy at the Home and Garden show..
> 
> Said Ferrandino owes 50k from 2 seasons ago.. Been battling them ever since..
> 
> Thought i would share the info for you new guys all excited to


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## NYPD 6973

Hi all I have been burnt by them as well!!!!! Suffolk county New York!!!! All on this site do not bail them out!!! Stay far away!!!!! Chris the cop NYPD 6973.....


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## Ramairfreak98ss

we had a 80-100k case against one nsp, after settlement for far less, legal fees, costs etc. we net about 3k out of the original 12k owed for unpaid balance, $1k snow stakes and salt stored on site... lawfirm made about 20k on the case, we lost 9k still 2 years later.

had multiple cases who owed 10-15k, settle a year later and we end up with about 2-4k of what is owed after legal fees/court costs etc. Some of these arn't even NSPs, but NJ is worst state for collections/courts. You almost need a retainer like "lawyers do" up front for any new client. Whatever their monthly expected bill is going to be, that amount up front.


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## ktfbgb

Ramairfreak98ss said:


> we had a 80-100k case against one nsp, after settlement for far less, legal fees, costs etc. we net about 3k out of the original 12k owed for unpaid balance, $1k snow stakes and salt stored on site... lawfirm made about 20k on the case, we lost 9k still 2 years later.
> 
> had multiple cases who owed 10-15k, settle a year later and we end up with about 2-4k of what is owed after legal fees/court costs etc. Some of these arn't even NSPs, but NJ is worst state for collections/courts. You almost need a retainer like "lawyers do" up front for any new client. Whatever their monthly expected bill is going to be, that amount up front.


Why Not do the retainer then?


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## Ramairfreak98ss

ktfbgb said:


> Why Not do the retainer then?


You know how easily that would be to get clients to agree to that! Well small accounts may do it if we're talking $1-2k maybe, but any larger accounts in the $5-10k range would just go to the next joe blow and sign without it, until it becomes the standard, i don't think any clients would agree.


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## John_DeereGreen

Ramairfreak98ss said:


> we had a 80-100k case against one nsp, after settlement for far less, legal fees, costs etc. we net about 3k out of the original 12k owed for unpaid balance, $1k snow stakes and salt stored on site... lawfirm made about 20k on the case, we lost 9k still 2 years later.
> 
> had multiple cases who owed 10-15k, settle a year later and we end up with about 2-4k of what is owed after legal fees/court costs etc. Some of these arn't even NSPs, but NJ is worst state for collections/courts. You almost need a retainer like "lawyers do" up front for any new client. Whatever their monthly expected bill is going to be, that amount up front.


At what point do you have to look at the situation and say maybe the problem is me? You constantly complain about various NSP's and how they don't pay you.

We do work for several, and as long as you follow their procedures for invoicing and reporting, payment arrives on time every time.

Not saying it is or isn't, but maybe you should look internally before throwing rocks at a glass window. It seems extremely hard for me to believe that not a single NSP you've worked for hasn't paid you, when some of those exact same ones have paid us with no issues at all.


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> At what point do you have to look at the situation and say maybe the problem is me? You constantly complain about various NSP's and how they don't pay you.
> 
> We do work for several, and as long as you follow their procedures for invoicing and reporting, payment arrives on time every time.
> 
> Not saying it is or isn't, but maybe you should look internally before throwing rocks at a glass window. It seems extremely hard for me to believe that not a single NSP you've worked for hasn't paid you, when some of those exact same ones have paid us with no issues at all.


Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

Better yet, what kind of a :terribletowel:keeps signing the contracts over and over and then comes here and bytches aboot not getting paid and the unfair terms in the contract.

Then again, some people are masochists.


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## Mark Oomkes

Ramairfreak98ss said:


> we had a 80-100k case against one nsp, after settlement for far less, legal fees, costs etc. we net about 3k out of the original 12k owed for unpaid balance, $1k snow stakes and salt stored on site... lawfirm made about 20k on the case, we lost 9k still 2 years later.
> 
> had multiple cases who owed 10-15k, settle a year later and we end up with about 2-4k of what is owed after legal fees/court costs etc. Some of these arn't even NSPs, but NJ is worst state for collections/courts. You almost need a retainer like "lawyers do" up front for any new client. Whatever their monthly expected bill is going to be, that amount up front.


BTW, I have no idea how to follow any of your numbers and who owed who how much and what lawyer fees were and etc, etc, etc.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> BTW, I have no idea how to follow any of your numbers and who owed who how much and what lawyer fees were and etc, etc, etc.


It's like a story problem from school...You need to pay attention very closely....


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## FredG

If the NSP's had everything in my area and jobs were not available or the NSP's were not paying. Snow and ice is not the only way to earn money, Restructure put that money some other place to earn, maybe just be a better collector, Just cause you got a attorney will not save the day. Work with a reputible contractor and sub till you can get back in the dirt. None of us can mistake over over and over.


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> It's like a story problem from school...You need to pay attention very closely....


I'm oot!


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## leigh

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". Albert was quite insightful .


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## John_DeereGreen

If you keep doing what you been doing, you're gonna keep getting whatcha been getting. 

Pretty simple concept yet some find it so difficult to grasp.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

They emailed us a request today, acting like they wanted to know if we "plow snow in nj" ...
walgreens "i first thought it was $210 salt/$95 plow" but no, thats $210 salt and plow. We were paid 35% more than that for same site in 2008 even.

Some rite aids $1000-2000/season
same worst terms on earth. I told them they need to pay within 30 days, she responds back, sorry we can't meet those terms lol.


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## cowbay

Hello,

I am reaching out you in regards to an emergency snow removal request for a CVS located at:

*215-08 73rd Avenue, Bayside, NY 11364*





The sidewalks will need service ASAP. Preferably looking for service around 3pm today.

Please let me know if you can help and provide a price to complete.

Thanks so much for your attention!

*Please note: This is a mass email within the F&S NY state database, please disregard if you are not interested or not close to this location.*

This was one of 7 emails I got from Ferrandino for the storm a couple of weeks ago. Got to love them go cheap and get cheap.


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