# HELP WITH PRICING Skyline



## jj0807 (Jun 18, 2009)

I'm new to the snow buisness but i went into skyline and the owner asked if I would plow the lot for him in the winter. I said sure, and i would get back to him with the number in acouple days. What are some suggestions on How much i should charge: 

Per push/Per hour=$

Per inch=$

Per Season=$

Salt included=$

For everyone who hs seen a skyline lot its not small but not big either. I just need some good advice, i could use this extra money for college.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Per season salt included is the way to go IMO

Skyline?

Like the double wide builder?


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

I think he means Skyline Chile it's an Ohio thing. 

What works for me is to charge per push. I would guess somthing in the neighborhood of $50 to $75 per push. Salt is extra and should be applied at a rate of 600 to 750 lbs per/acre, depending on conditions. You need to know your cost on salt, close to $4.25 per 50# around here. 

The way I work it is, during a day storm the lot is cleared after every 2", then salted once the storm is over and the lot has been plowed. 

If you don't already have the equipment it you are going to need more than 1 account to justify this venture. Plows, salters, and insurance all cost money and 1 account wouldn't be worth it. Also seeing that you are a newby you are going to need insurance.

Good luck, Bossman


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Insurance is the big issue here. Find out IF you can get it and how much BEFORE submitting a bid - especially with an commercial (business) account. That'll make all the difference. They will require some level of General Liability insurance.


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## jj0807 (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks everyone. I got a estimate from progressive it was 147/Month. I really would like to have atleast two accounts nothing more i probaly could not handle that. since im a newbie. The owner doesnt mind giving me 1 extra lot to do. the lots are not that big. So per push $75+Salt would be my best bet. Should i raise the per push price every 3 or 4 inches of snow? The salt runs about $5.75 for top brand.

Flat Fee:

2in-5in=200
salt=40

5in-8in=300
salt=50

8in-11in=475
salt=70

11inches or more = 475+$80/in after 11in


Just trying to see if this was a good start. All feedback needed thanks


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Well, you're going to need four pushes with salt, if you get two lots, to pay for the insurance. Then add fuel, equipment maint, wages and profit. How much snow does your area get?


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Sorry, I took your "flat fee" as "per push". So you're going to need about 12 pushes to pay for the insurance. Not realistic.

You're confusing me with a variable flat fee. What do you mean by "flat fee"?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

jj0807;783910 said:


> Thanks everyone. I got a estimate from progressive it was 147/Month. I really would like to have atleast two accounts nothing more i probaly could not handle that. since im a newbie. The owner doesnt mind giving me 1 extra lot to do. the lots are not that big. So per push $75+Salt would be my best bet. Should i raise the per push price every 3 or 4 inches of snow? The salt runs about $5.75 for top brand.
> 
> Flat Fee:
> 
> ...


I don't think you are going to get 475/11" if 5'' is only $200

The blizzard clause should just be an hourly rate, not flat rate plus hourly.

Salt should be the same price for any amount of snow.

I don't like the progressive charge for snow depth, just charge a flat rate for up to 3-4'' and if it snows 7'' charge them 2x

Just my $0.02


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

We plow with the storm, it works out better for both. There is no reason to wait untill you have 10" on the ground to start plowing, especially if you only have 2 places. 

Keep it simple. I have tried the per inch method, and it sucks. The customer always tends to think we got less than we did, and if it's close they always want to argue.

Salt will stay the same, no matter how much snow you pushed. Unless they request "a special blend" use the cheapest morton salt you can find, it all melts snow.


If you want send me a pm and I will give you my cell number I know your weather and area, and might be able to offer some advice.

Bossman


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## jj0807 (Jun 18, 2009)

SO my best bet is to charge $75 per push. my question then will i make a profit with that rate doin two Lots


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

jj0807;783981 said:


> SO my best bet is to charge $75 per push. my question then will i make a profit with that rate doin two Lots


Insurance = $147(12) = $1764 (Is Commercial Vehicle included or is that just Liability?)
Income = $75(2) = $150( #/pushes (10?) ) = $1500

Loss of $264. Doesn't include startup costs or ongoing costs. Not to mention profit.

Doesn't look like too good of a plan to me. Am I missing something or were you really not able to figure this out for yourself? I think you better take Bossman up on his offer.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

jj0807;783981 said:


> SO my best bet is to charge $75 per push. my question then will i make a profit with that rate doin two Lots


No.
You need to find more lots to do it the same area.
At least 4-6 times more for the revenue in should be your target, $6000-$9000 vs current $1500.
If money is not an issue, then 2 lots is a good way to learn the ropes and not make a dime. Been there done that.
GL


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## jj0807 (Jun 18, 2009)

So this is a similar lot to the one im persuing. What sholud my per push rate be. I already know my salt rate.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

jj0807;784022 said:


> So this is a similar lot to the one im persuing. What sholud my per push rate be. I already know my salt rate.


The question shouldn't be what the per push rate will be. The local market determines that. The question is how many lots (or equivalent) do you need to show the profit you want.


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## jj0807 (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks, everyone for the advice. he has three lots i could do. the image belowe is a similar size lot.
How would this job be priced:
PER PUSH=$
PER HOUR=$
PER SEASON=$

Also how long will this job take to complete. i dont want to pick up to many acccounts that I cant handle.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

JJ0807, just how much experience do you have at pushing snow?


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

JJ, Give me a call 330 204 8244

Bossman


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## jj0807 (Jun 18, 2009)

Other than using an ATV to do a few drive ways hear and there....None. I want to use the money to continue to pay for college. this would be a good source of extra money to do just that. Im pretty sure once i get past the number i;ll be fine. im not lazy i work for what i want and need. i just need alittle help with the numbers.


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

i think you need to sub for someone and learn the business. Commercial accounts need A LOT of attention and to be frank. You are not ready for this. Sorry.


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## Young Pup (Aug 13, 2004)

Ok, I don't think I have seen this asked yet. What type of equipment will you be using to plow these with? Do you already have a truck and plow?


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## bigmudder77 (Dec 5, 2007)

i wouldnt take this on your gonna be in over your head very fast 

and it wouldnt take too long to do if there wasnt any cars in the parking lot i bet i could plow it in about 30-45 mins if every thing goes right and there is no cars 

if there is cars your looking at longer usually double cause if its deep snow and you plow a car in they get mad go complain to the owner you get canned pretty much 

id do it per push and i wouldnt do it for any less than $125 per push for that area but im always higher than most when i put in my bids cause there are fly by night people that will do it for $20 per push to get some beer money but they will do a crappy job and not come back till they need more money 

when i plow im there till the job is done and when its storming and im out plowing i usually plow at least twice then go by the next day to see if any drifted up any where cause some places i got we could get 0 snow for the day and half there place will be drifted over when the wind blows so i always drive the car around alot and check my places out to make sure every thing is good still would drive the truck but with gas and if there good there is no need to mess with driving that if there bad i make my rounds and write the bad ones down get the truck and go plow the bad ones then come back home 

but if this is your first year i wouldnt try to take that on 

and if you dont have a plow truck with at least a 7.6ft blade forget it


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## tinffx (Jun 5, 2009)

I don't think you can charge enough for that lot to make it worthwhile on its own. Hell it sounds like your insurance cost is more than you are likely to make. I don't doubt that you could service that lot just fine but it is unlikely you could do so and make enough money on it. Sub work would be good. If you know someone that has an operation in your area im sure they wouldn't mind putting you to work when you are already bringing a customer to the table.

I don't know the needs of your customer but $200 per push would be cheap around here. If your customer needs the lot open all the time charge him per push (or at least figure out your fee that way if he wants something more complex). If he only needs it done before the morning I would charge a higher price. If your typical storm puts down 6" over 12 hours you would probably push it twice or three times if you don't have any other work. Of course that would be determined by your customer. If he only needs it done one time per event prior to opening, charge a little more with the anticipation of deeper snow.

Does your salt charge include materials? I don't know where you are getting the salt but that is pretty cheap. Also, I would have a hard time figuring out a salt charge based on an amount of snowfall. If I was your customer I would assume that you would only salt after the snow has been removed, making the original depth of the snow irrevelant. I figure more salt is needed when it is colder, not because the surface was covered with a deeper amount of snow. An ice event would need a more liberal application as well. Bear in mind that it may only take 10-15 minutes to salt that lot with a little tailgate spreader, you have to buy the salt, do something with the salt before it is used, and then apply it. 

I am far less experienced in figuring this stuff out than some people here. If it is just the extra cash you should definitly sub. You will be much more likely to have some sort of sucess. If you are going balls deep try and pick up some other accounts nearby (as has been previously reccomended). 

If you are only trying to do this one lot its sort of like buying an eighteen wheeler to go grocery shopping. While it may get you to the store, and you and your food home, you invested way too much money in something that really only turns into an inconvenience when you actually get there and have to park it.


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## Chrisxl64 (Dec 10, 2008)

It is easy to get caught up in "pre-fab production numbers" that state what you will be able to accomplsih in X amount of time. However, you'll never really understand what YOU can accomplsih in X amoutn of time until you do it. Get out there and start small, even if its just residentials, and get a feel for what you're doing and how quick you can do it. Also, find HELP if you're taking on commercial account with anything short of new trucks and equipment you're sure to have at least one major breakdown and with lots that can be crippling. -Chris


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

definitely learn the ropes, what i did my first year was 1 account of my own and i got subbed 3 others. i learned quickly and the fallowing year i upped to 3. once you learn the ropes and how fast and safe you can plow you can take on as much work as trucks!


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## BuckeyeSiteWork (Dec 23, 2008)

I'll second the sub thing!!! Keep the original lot as your own, and find a large contractor to sub for. Its a great way to learn and perhaps turn a profit. I plow in the same columbus area, and were lucky to have 5 plowable events. Make your money on salt!! 2008/2009 winter 5 plowing snows and 17 saltings


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

another think to keep in mind is dont expect to be making 10g's your first year. it just wont happen. also talk to relitives and see if you can get work through the grape vine and such. your first year look for driveways and a small lot or 2. everything counts, to much and you'll be :realmad:!


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

*I think I have what you are looking for!*

I have a CD called Quick Estimator for Snow & Ice Management that calculates per push, seasonal and flat rate contracts. It also calculates material rates for both granular and liquid products if you offer that service.

If you do hand labor or use ATV's or similar equipment there is an estimator for that as well. You simply fill in the blanks and the estimator calculates the rest. The nice thing about it is that it is not software to learn. It is simply an excel spreadsheet format that you fill in the blanks with your specific site information and it calculates your proposal. We also offer a template CD that has several different contracts, proposal formats, hours of operation sheet, and many templates for you to use.

I also offer a comprehensive snow & ice management manual that explains in detail the questions you have. Being a full service contractor myself since 1979, I understand what you are looking for. All of our manuals and CDs are written from our thirty years of experience, not theory.

Being a sponsor of plowsite, feel free to give me a call at 800-845-0499 to answer any questions. You can visit my website at www.profitsareus.com and go to our products available page to see these CDs and manuals.


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