# What do you guys think about my new contract????



## lude1990 (Jan 19, 2010)

Let me know thx


----------



## Fatality (Jul 14, 2009)

I think a dollar a day for late fee is a bad idea. Too much to keep track of if you have a handful of clients. I would recommend doing a certain flat rate percentage. The wording on the pricing/trigger needs to be sumed up better imo.


----------



## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

As for late charges, legally the most you can charge is 18% annually.......1.5% per month

I browsed through it quickly and can look it over better tomorrow and give my opinion on the rest.

It's best to use a base legal document and expand from that.


----------



## PLM-1 (Nov 29, 2004)

I think you got a lot of it off another contract floating around here, no biggie. I would watch the term "removal". You are PLOWING, these terms are not interchangeable.


----------



## lude1990 (Jan 19, 2010)

yea i browsed threw like 5 different ones and kinda took the best of each of them and added my stuff from my old contract to get the best thing possible. I am going to change the late fee price tho. thanks guys


----------



## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Have your lawyer look at it... some of the best money you'll spend!


----------



## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

Add a line on the first page for the customer to initial, and date. That way if it ever has to go to court, they can't say they never saw the first page.


----------



## pongow26 (Dec 19, 2008)

You know for my storage business what I do is add a late fee for every month late and that doubles as time goes on. IE say a person is late one month I will tack on $5 (example purposes only). Then say they make no payment are late for the second month, tack on $5 for the second month and another $5 for the previous month. so it is now $10 for the first month and $5 for the second month, In plowing you would need to adjust the time and amount but the reason I chose this method is because it gives the customer a chance to make it right before they acquire too many late charges and if they chose not to pay then it can get pretty hefty as time goes on


----------



## Tubby's Snow Plowing (Dec 13, 2009)

Found five spelling errors, two grammatical errors, and two punctuation errors. Correct those before presenting to clients. Use the spellchecker on your computer and have a third party proofread it.

Definitely change "removal" to "plowing", as grammar dictates. 

Since this is a legal document I would advise you not to use "a" to represent numbers. For example, "a dollar a day" should be changed to "one dollar per day" since it's a rate. 

I would consider changing charges due "upon performance of contracted service(s)" rather than upon receipt. If you have someone else doing billing, keeping it as is might be a better choice. If you are doing all the work and billing, issuing a hand written carbon copy receipt and putting it inside the mailbox when work is complete, might also be a good choice. That is up to you.


----------



## lude1990 (Jan 19, 2010)

That is what i have always done is put a carbon copy in the mailbox when im done at each mail box. I take care of all things in the company


----------



## LB1234 (Oct 17, 2006)

Mick76;1120566 said:


> Have your lawyer look at it... some of the best money you'll spend!


ditto

we wrote ours up as best we could then sent that over to the attorney. He corrected everything or put it into legal jargon and had me add a few things.


----------



## ff610 (Jan 9, 2009)

What everyone else says, and I would add a place for your customer to initial next to each pricing option. Also do you salt? If so, I would add a line for salting at your discretion or at their discretion. Make them initial that too. One other thing I don't think I saw was something allowing you to get reimbursement for legal expenses if you feel you need it. I'm not sure about residential but my commercial contracts are 3 times the size of this. Just a cover your a## thing. I have been burned on one residential over the years.....


----------



## Eyesell (Nov 7, 2003)

My_ "terms"_ clause is the most important part of my contact next to the pricing portion. You may also want to add things like:

- We will not be held responsible for plow damage to sod, shrubs, landscaping, retaining walls, nor scratches or scrapes in asphalt and concrete surfaces no matter what shape they are in. 
- The customer agrees to make every feasible effort to keep plowed locations free from obstructions, such as cars, trash cans, etc. We will not be liable for any damages to any hidden objects by snow, any damages must be reported in writing within 24 hrs. 
- Any car left in parking lot will be plowed around with no consideration where snow will land. Only areas that are unobstructed will be serviced.

These are just a few of the things in my contract and I had to pay a lawyer to proof and finalize, if this was not the case I would be open to sharing the balance with you. When you've finalized send me a PM with what you have and I can make a few suggestions for you if you like.


----------



## tjlands (Sep 29, 2005)

Not a joke but 3.5 and 6.5" is not covered. Change that.
Maybe remove #4 on terms- doesn't make sense,
Take out #5 also and just add an hourly charge for Drifting, 
$15 is not enough if you get totally buried. 
Late charges/, $1 a day just sounds ridiculous, just say due upon receipt, with charges(most allowed by law) and delay of service after 30(15)days.
Your trigger is listed on terms and customers trigger on top- should be one or the other- not both.
What if it snows April 3rd.
Maybe change salting to ice control and separate sidewalks and pavement(calcium is much more costly that salt)
and then either at every service or only upon request

Sorry


----------



## lude1990 (Jan 19, 2010)

The inch thing is fixed typo on my part I changed the late fee thing a long time ago. I have a trigger for the customer because I have some driveways that they only want service if it over a certain amount. I had one last year that he didnt want me to come unless it was over 6".


----------



## jgoetter1 (Feb 23, 2007)

You need to understand that your customer base will not want to hire an attorney to understand your contract. Some of your wording is just too complicated. Simplify this for your customers sake. 

These customers will be doing $100 - $200 in business with you, its okay to have basic language such as: we have a 2 inch minimum and we charge you x amount for each time service is provided. 

You do plan on invoicing, right? You'll have to figure out your cockeyed system for each customer every storm you work.


----------



## Mass-hole (Dec 7, 2009)

lude1990;1120193 said:


> Let me know thx


A contract is an instrument between two parties that describes the duties of each party to one another. This document doesn't do that. What does "the removal of snow" mean? Where on the property is snow being removed from the roof, the lawn, the pool, the gutters? Reading your contract I have no idea. Every technical term must be defined in the contract. This applies to all other technical terms, i.e. trigger, base rate, etc)

How quickly are you going to arrive? What if you don't?

Your late fee saying that "unless prior communication..." certainly reads such that a customer can call and say, "Hi, you guys are doing a great job plowing my lawn, but I don't think I'm going to pay you this month. I might be willing to do it next month." to successfully avoid being assessed a late fee. What happens if you need to go to court to get a judgment against your customer?

Where is the snow accumulation measured? at your office? the property? who is measuring? how will you deal with a dispute between you and your customer over measured accumulation?

I could go on, but I'd be doing your work for you. Either get a lawyer, or think of every stupid and not so stupid question a customer has ever asked you and put it in your contract. Then I'd still get a lawyer, but you'll end up paying him less...

Good luck this season.


----------



## NPMinc (Nov 29, 2010)

Main thing I see is there is no real description of what services and to what areas you are going to do. Ex. being "plow/remove snow from driveway, public sidewalks, walkways etc". Also find the wording in general is very confusing. Oh well enough of me doing your homework for ya!


----------



## LB1234 (Oct 17, 2006)

I remember my attorney having me replace the word "removal" with relocation. I looked at him like he had two heads. Then he asked a simple question...am I removing the snow or relocating it? I laughed and was in complete agreement. He also had my install a section that I can trace out the plowable areas AND mark the location of the "relocated: snow. He then had me place in a section for them to initial off on EVERYTHING. My limitations on liability clause is one solid page. again, just speak with an attorney. penny wise pound foolish.


----------



## lude1990 (Jan 19, 2010)

As for the removal vs plowing vs etc. Most everyone around here uses removal when they are doing driveways or any thing snow related. And if they snow is to be taken off site then that is worded in the contract from what i have seen around here. Thanks for your input guys.


----------



## NPMinc (Nov 29, 2010)

I discussed the removal issue with my attorney....he said Im fine with removal because my contract states exactly what areas the snow is being "removed" from ie driveway, sidewalk etc. LB1234, you are removing the snow, not from the property completely but from the areas stated. Also just a note you can have 20 pages of limitations on liabilty clauses and they in no way stop someone from filing suit and dragging you to court etc---whether they get anything or suit gets thrown out it is still a major PITA and waste of your time and a major frustration. Thats not my words, thats paraphrasing my attorney.


----------



## Eyesell (Nov 7, 2003)

NPMinc;1139813 Thats not my words said:


> Your absolutely right, listen, when someone slips and falls I don't care how much money you spent on attorney fees preparing your contract, you can plan on defending yourself in court...plan and simple ! Brain Fart...I'm going to start a thread and find out just how many..


----------



## LB1234 (Oct 17, 2006)

NPMinc;1139813 said:


> Also just a note you can have 20 pages of limitations on liabilty clauses and they in no way stop someone from filing suit and dragging you to court etc---whether they get anything or suit gets thrown out it is still a major PITA and waste of your time and a major frustration. Thats not my words, thats paraphrasing my attorney.


As for the removal versus relocation....ya I agree its basically the interpretation of the word/s. However, by placing relocation versus removal b/c my attorney said it would be better, whats the harm. After all that's why I paid him.

100% complete agreement with the liability page. It doesn't mean jack crapola. If someone wants to sue, they are going to sue...no if's and's or but's about it. you might as well burn that page and pretend it never existed. HOWEVER, my attorney highly recommends utilizing some sort of report sheet when performing any services. Basically I have a binder with me with a spreadsheet where information is tallied. Time-in/out, date, temp-in/out, precipation, acculumulation, serviced by, etc. Also have a notes section to enter in things like "could not perform such and such service due to illegally parked vehicle, lic plate XXX" I then take pictures of everything once the service is completed to show the conditions upon leaving the site. My attorney claims this will help me in a few ways to help in cause of a lawsuit. Listen, I have no idea...never had a lawsuit...knock on wood...but I can only do what my attorney suggests.


----------



## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

If we are only talking residential, does your customer really want or need a 10 page contract. While everyone has offered good points to improve your contract, I personally don't have residential accounts sign contracts. When someone wants to sue you, they will... Now commercial accounts, different story.
For a $20-30 dollar visit, It's not worth the hassle!


----------



## NPMinc (Nov 29, 2010)

blowerman the contract for my residentials is much shorter then comm. Totals 2 pages of text including the pricing and signature lines. Not a big deal to have them read n sign it. If in the event I am ever sued etc, and it helps me ONE LITTLE BIT, it is a minor hassle that could pay off with huge dividends. As my attorney has told me if its not in writing it never existed.


----------



## Eyesell (Nov 7, 2003)

listen, I had a residential come after me for $ 500.00 worth of landscaping damage I had absolutely nothing to do with, I only made $ 250.00 at the account all winter.

The amount made vs. what they wanted in damage is beside the point, my res. contract ( and I have two types, one comm and one res. ) clearly stated I was in the clear. I told them up front that I went over it with them and they were ok....go figure how one's memory is so short.


----------



## LB1234 (Oct 17, 2006)

blowerman;1140814 said:


> If we are only talking residential, does your customer really want or need a 10 page contract. While everyone has offered good points to improve your contract, I personally don't have residential accounts sign contracts. When someone wants to sue you, they will... Now commercial accounts, different story.
> For a $20-30 dollar visit, It's not worth the hassle!


as others have, my residential contract is 2 pages long. My commericial, depending on the account, is between three and four pages. Personally, I think you are nuts for not have signed accounts for something like snow removal (I mean relocation:laughing. Its not so much the slip fall that I'm worried about in residential snow services, its the propert damage. Simple things like what salt will do to their front porch, or how my plow WILL scratch their driveway, how I'm not responisble for a curb block if it pops out. Its kinda like you said, its not worth repairing $100 worth of sod for an account that your getting $35 to push and maybe only service five times a year. The written contract explains what you are and are not responsible for...it helps avoid going to attorney's and makes the homeowner think twice before contacting theirs since the problem/issue may already be there in black and white with a signature that they understand what they are signing.


----------

