# How Competion in your area



## StableP (Sep 6, 2004)

I just started my plow business 2 months ago and now i have just bought a brand new truck plow 1 ton 7 foot plow. last week i just sign up 7 seasonal accounts, worth around $15,000 and it has'nt even snowed. These people all told me they were looking for years for sombody to come out. How competionin your area.


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

About 250 legit-full time companies, and probably 10,000 part-timers, scrubs, lowballers, and homeowners...

Average driveway around here 25x50 goes for $6.00 per push.. Have to really look for the customers who are willing to pay for quality service..


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## ROSELAWN (Sep 12, 2003)

Hey Qualitylawncare, do driveways really go for $6.00 in your area?! That is about $30.00 cheaper than my nech of the woods. Also to stableP if you have a 1-ton with a 7' plow you might want to put Pro-wings on it or something to widen it or you will be driving over your windrows.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

i would have to agree with roselawn 7' plow on a 1 ton is small. why did you buy a 1 ton if you were going to put such a small plow on?


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## Eyesell (Nov 7, 2003)

I'll tell ya this much, I won't plow a driverway for $ 6.00, we can get between $ 30.00-$50.00.


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## Boast Enterpris (Oct 26, 2003)

HMMMM, fuel averaging $2.10 a gallon + Driveway averaging $6.00 = Plow & truck for sale soon!!


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

Boast Enterpris said:


> HMMMM, fuel averaging $2.10 a gallon + Driveway averaging $6.00 = Plow & truck for sale soon!!


Haha that's what I'm hoping for.. Maybe these sky high gas prices will cut out alot of the lowballers. I'll keep ya posted.


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## AintNoFun (Nov 26, 2003)

i know a job i used to plow for $2100 and $1200 to salt went for $450 to plow and $400 to salt and $55 an hour for the walks? And they guy that did it before me was getting about $1900 a push, so i don't know whats up.....


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

We have had problems like this before. The best thing to do is to stick together. When the low baller fails, and he will, the location in question is going to call in a panic. DON'T GO!!! Let them sweat it for a while. We had that happen here where a new guy, just 21 living at home was undercutting everyone. The first storm( not snowfall) he had 4 slip and falls. The property management company was in a panic and they started phoning everyone to help them. Don't go and let them sweat for a while. But you guys have to stick together at this point. You are not their back up truck.


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## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

I would like to express what I would like to do to lowballers but the plowsite guidelines won't let me!  However this does give me a good idea for a new signature.


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## Dnipro Max (Aug 27, 2004)

hey, The Boss, I like it, your signature, Steve is right, this area is real cheap, they do season unlimited trips for $160, and then when customer call me for price, they ask if i'll beat the price, They wish, I talk with snowplowing guy and they said $10 a push is good if you get around here, and i'm just starting out with fearly new truck, and new plow, and with diesel at $2.37 can't make nothing here,


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## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

If drives are getting done for $6.00 per push, I wonder if that's some neighbor kid doing it with a shovel? I don't do residential except for family but if I was going to bid on them again(I used to do residential) I wouldn't even touch a driveway for no less than $25.00 for the smallest one.
Boast couldn't have put it better.


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

The Boss said:


> If drives are getting done for $6.00 per push, I wonder if that's some neighbor kid doing it with a shovel? I don't do residential except for family but if I was going to bid on them again(I used to do residential) I wouldn't even touch a driveway for no less than $25.00 for the smallest one.
> Boast couldn't have put it better.


No shovel for $6.00.. The kids around here will do them for $2-5.. The guys around here plowing for $6.00, will go to the bar, drink and drink and drink until there is 8" on the ground and then head out to plow. So essentially, they are plowing for beer money.

I have alot of respect for the guys like me on this site who are local and doing this full-time trying to make a living off it. Dnipro Max, GVLAWNCARE, Green Mountain, and I know there are some others. 

I'm probably going to add two more plow trucks this season because my phone has been ringing off the hook. This is my first real season plowing, but I have been mowing alot of my customers since I was 12 (6 years). They know I produce quality results on my lawn maintenance end, and I promise I will do the same in snow removal; even though my prices are 3-6x the competition.


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## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

Snow removal is my main source of income in the winter. I'm going to work part time at the strip club again for extra money. My point is that us guys who plow for a living and try to run a respectable business are being shoved to the side by lowballers. Sucks. :angry:


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## Boast Enterpris (Oct 26, 2003)

HHMMMM, Drink & Drink + plow 8" snow+ residential driveway = BIG LAWSUIT (eventually) The Boss, may I use the lowballer part of your signature??


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## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

You sure can! Pretty good idead isn't it? :yow!:


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## JMR (Feb 24, 2003)

I don't real worry about what the competition is doing. I bid the accounts I want, if I get them thats fine, if I don't oh well. I retained 100% of my accounts from last year and have already added 3 new accounts through referrals from from other accounts. I am doing the routing now, but I should be running at 100% capacity for my current crew and subs. I do have a bid in on a pretty good size account, that I should get. I will have to sub the entire job though. Quality and service will get you the type of accounts you want. Low ballers won't last long if an account is looking for a quality based provider. Bottom line, if an account is not will to pay for quality service, you don't want them as an account.


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

JMR said:


> I don't real worry about what the competition is doing. I bid the accounts I want, if I get them thats fine, if I don't oh well. I retained 100% of my accounts from last year and have already added 3 new accounts through referrals from from other accounts. I am doing the routing now, but I should be running at 100% capacity for my current crew and subs. I do have a bid in on a pretty good size account, that I should get. I will have to sub the entire job though. Quality and service will get you the type of accounts you want. Low ballers won't last long if an account is looking for a quality based provider. Bottom line, if an account is not will to pay for quality service, you don't want them as an account.


The problem is everyone wants quality and service for nothing!!!!! 

I'm stealing your sig BOSS!


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## JMR (Feb 24, 2003)

A low baller won't be able to provide the quality service that customers demand. There will always be low ballers out there, but they won't retain accounts that are looking for a higher quality level of service. This is all part of a free market economy. Once people are tired of crappy service they will be willing to pay a fair price for good quality service. Pricing is also a factor of supply and demand. If there are more snow removal contractors available in your area than there are jobs than prices will be driven down. If prices stay low long enough then snow removal contractors will be forced out of the business until the number on contractors moves closer to the number of customers, as this happens prices will increase. The market will correct itself. If you can't sell your services and operate at a profitable level then it is probably time to rethink your ideas about providing snow removal services. unless your just in this for the fun of it. We are all guilty of trying to get the most for our $$$$. Are you willing to pay $500.00 more for a plow setup installed on your truck from one place over another. Why is that dealer more expensive than the other? In many cases it may be the level of service, the quality of the install, and warranty service.


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

JMR said:


> A low baller won't be able to provide the quality service that customers demand. There will always be low ballers out there, but they won't retain accounts that are looking for a higher quality level of service. This is all part of a free market economy. Once people are tired of crappy service they will be willing to pay a fair price for good quality service. Pricing is also a factor of supply and demand. If there are more snow removal contractors available in your area than there are jobs than prices will be driven down. If prices stay low long enough then snow removal contractors will be forced out of the business until the number on contractors moves closer to the number of customers, as this happens prices will increase. The market will correct itself. If you can't sell your services and operate at a profitable level then it is probably time to rethink your ideas about providing snow removal services. unless your just in this for the fun of it. We are all guilty of trying to get the most for our $$$$. Are you willing to pay $500.00 more for a plow setup installed on your truck from one place over another. Why is that dealer more expensive than the other? In many cases it may be the level of service, the quality of the install, and warranty service.


Trust me I know exactly what your saying. I want everything to be the best.

I won't touch a driveway for less than $18.00, but in my mind it's still too cheap. But anything over that and people will turn ya down (everyone)..

The problem is lowballers are plowing for under $10.00 and everyone else over $10.00 is doing REALLY good work. This is the problem where quality and price clash. It's scary when you can find someone that will do an awesome job on a driveway, have insurance, etc and only charge $10.00.. It still amazes me


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## bobshm (Oct 11, 2004)

*bait & switch*

I'm getting pretty tired of three types of bidders- bait & switch, daddy set me ups, and I'm retired/ fired/ moonlight and need something to do. 
1.) With bait & switch, they all promise "this is included, I'll do the same thing for less, we'll take care of you", then, SUPRISE ! I spell out exactly what is and isn't included, quantities and types of materials used, etc. But- the lower price and good B.S. win.
2.) daddy set me ups are usually nice people, they just have no clue what to charge. They confuse money in the checking account with making a profit. "I have a new truck, new equipment, now what do I do ?"
3.) I'm retired/ fired/ moonlight and need something to do. Some of these people really piss me off because they should go get a hobby instead taking money from real contractors. The moonlighters especially piss me off because they will lie to get work." Oh, of course I'm insured" 
This is my 11th year in business. This is my profession. I manage my customer's liability, and my work affects the comfort and safety of their employees and customers. I am properly insured. I pay all state and federal taxes. I offer benefits to my employees and a living wage. I do what I say I'm going to do, and take it personally if one of my customers isn't happy. If I break something on a customers property, I fix it in a timely manner.
It is time to get paid for what we offer. We as an industry offer a vital, emergency service that should be priced accordingly. It kills me to see people jump at $35 or $40 an hour to plow with their truck. How does that cover your costs ? How about setting some standards for ethics, pricing, and service through a regional or national organization. Some might consider that collusion, but it's funny how airline prices, gas station prices, cable tv prices are all about the same as their competitors.
Sorry about the rant, but I just lost two bids that I needed this winter. I refuse to lie, compromise service, or be a price ***** to get work. Property managers aren't stupid. They know that if they keep asking enough people, they will get the low price that they need to look good.We as a group are our own worst enemy.


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## JMR (Feb 24, 2003)

That chances of standardized pricing and eliminating low ballers is slim to none. Blow off customers that aren't willing to pay your price and move on. Pricing in snow removal is no different than any other business out their. My primary business is automotive repair. I deal with the same issues over pricing as we are talking about here. My shop hourly rate is $80.00 per hour and are parts markup is at least 100%. How am I able to keep my 9 bay repair shop busy? With over 20 years in business I have developed a reputation of providing quality work that people are willing to pay for. There are plenty of shops around charging $40-55 per hour with little markup on parts, but if a customer wants quality service and job done right the come to me. I learned years ago to stop worrying about what the competition is doing and focus on what I'm doing. If a customers only concern is price it is not the type of customer you want anyway. Find quality oriented customer, you and the customer will be much happier.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

bobshm said:


> I'm getting pretty tired of three types of bidders- bait & switch, daddy set me ups, and I'm *retired/* fired/ moonlight and need something to do.
> 
> 3.) I'm retired/ fired/ moonlight and need something to do. Some of these people really piss me off because they should go get a hobby instead taking money from real contractors. The moonlighters especially piss me off because they will lie to get work." Oh, of course I'm insured"
> 
> ...


Sorry I offend you so much. You are welcome to come up and see how I run my business, examine my insurance policies and talk to my customers about my efficiency and dedication to service. You might also review my past posts about lowballing, pricing, business practices etc.

Too bad about you losing those bids, but I have too. That's business. Everybody in a service industry accepts that they'll get some and lose some. If you got them all, I'd have serious questions about your pricing techniques (lowballing). Not getting your market share, I'd question your pricing as too high.


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## Dnipro Max (Aug 27, 2004)

Hey, Steve
Do u do per season unlimited trips? cause thats what i been ask alot for price for hole season with unlimited trips, u realy don't know how much trips u going to make, u will ether win or loss, 
 loweballers  
i like that too Boss


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

Dnipro Max,

No I don't. I have been asked by every residential customer if I do it that way, and I refuse.

My residential contracts include 20 visits at $xxx(x).xx amount and anything above 20 visits is billed at $xx(x).xx per push on a monthly basis.

No money is refunded if I do not make 20 pushes.

Around here, unlimited pushes and a good winter would land me in the poor house.. I would rather sit at home and live off my summer maintenance profit than plow for $200 and make it unlimited... Not for me!!


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## Dnipro Max (Aug 27, 2004)

Thanks, 
Thats what i got to do, but around here greece specialy, my parents got like 5 flyers from different companys all doing it for unlimited trips as low as $160, and for me just starting out peolpe want same deal or evenbetter, plus i have no one that i plow for as referense, i been doing construction for a about 6 year, but my customers all over monroe, plus more, defenatly not worth going to plow a hour away, but i keep on trying


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## bobshm (Oct 11, 2004)

*For Mick*

Sorry to offend you Mick. From your profile, it would appear that you may be retired from one career, but are a full time professional in the snow business. The retired guys I was referring to are the ones that have an income to live off of, but choose to be out dabbling in commercial snowplowing for fishing money.
One time I had the plow contract for the new hotel/conference center in my town. I checked my contract estimate with two larger contractors I know and trust before submitting and winning the bid. It ended up being the heaviest winter we'd had in several years. We did a great job there and received compliments from the hotel and other contractors. The following year, I bid roughly the same amount, but lost the account to an established landscape firm who bid half of my price. I was pretty upset about it so I called the firm and spoke to the manager, telling him how much money he left on the table. His reply to me was that it wasn't important to them to make money snowplowing, it just kept their employees busy. Four years later, they are out of business. The hotel continued to seek and collect bids from everyone in town, looking for that low price, and went through a few more contractors before awarding it to the owner's son, who does a really good job. I don't bid the hotel anymore, because I learned that for them, only price mattered.
Long story aside, I appreciate your response to my post. It was helpful to me to read how angry I was. I am re-reading my bids that I lost to check my numbers again. Thanks for your input.


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## bobshm (Oct 11, 2004)

*Mick (continued)*

OK, so I reviewed one of my quotes, reduced my price by taking out loader work and called the customer. My per push price is similar, but on loader work I quoted $100hr with 2 hour minimum (using a loader, not a bobcat). He has two quotes for $60 per hour, no minimum. What am I missing here? How do you lease a loader for the winter ( 5 month contract, $2200-$3200 month), then bill it if needed at $60hr. ?


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

I don't know for sure, but could it be the difference between the other guy owning his loader vs you having to lease one?

I don't quote loader work, so really don't have an idea of associated costs. Maybe someone else on here can chime in. The other thing for you would be to concentrate on work that wouldn't require a loader or subcontract the loader work. Or, if they are quoting $60/hr and you can't come close - don't fight it. To stay competitive, find someone who'll go for $50-55 and quote the $60.

Just a couple of ideas.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

We don't own a loader either. When we get loader work we have 2 brothers that work for the local hydro companies. They don't have any work for the winter so they will do the loader work for $65/hr CDN. We will give them close to 10 hours work per night and we give them all our work. Guys around here set their pricing on how busy it is. If we have just had a big storm the prices will double because of demand. We have these guys lined up and we make sure they get all our work to keep them happy. Our prices are set well before the snow flies. Even though we don't have to be real cheap, there is no way we could get 125/hr for loader work.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

You cant charge more then 65.00 an hour for a loader!! That is sick, what do you guys get for a pickup? My gosh you have to bring a loader in on a lowboy, what does he get paid? Rates around here pay subs 75.00 to 95 (2 speed) an hour for a skidloader with an 8' blade. Full size loader gets about 150.00 an hour under contract, and big storms requireing removal run over 200. Im with you Bob 2300 a month means 38.3 hours of billable time just to pay the lease! Plus payroll and fuel, wow good luck dude.
Todd


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

Around my area its cut throat. Somebody will beat your price in 1/2.

NO more jumping around trying to bid a job

I sure am glad I now only plow my bar/hotel and the bank next door. 
They rent my lot so I really charge them HIGH for plowing/salting.
They have NO choice ! 
My bud owns his own big loader and only charges $100 hour CASH
whenever I need him.

Heck the lowballers have the local town square bid out for $20 a push
and the local American Legion (HUGE LOT) for $10.
Both churches for $15 each ! Driveways....HAH !...........10 bucks too....
   .............geo


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## maurader (Jan 25, 2004)

I have to agree with Dnipro Max and Steve that the competition around here is pretty crazy. I get calls from people price shopping all the time. They tell me they had a guy plow them last year for $125. I ask why don't they call him back for this year? uh...he doesn't do residentials anymore. I wonder why. In this area plowing is mostly done as a supplement to your income. If I could get $30 a push I would be loving life. This is my 11th year plowing and it never changes. Just wait till we get some snow then the people won't care about the price as much. They just want someone as soon as possible.
Good luck to both of you on your first year of plowing. 

p.s. Get my new x-blade put on tomorrow. Can't wait.


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## mikef (Oct 31, 2004)

I have gotten to the point that I just ask them. If they have a legit beef with the old contractor I may bid it and if I know him I'll give him a call and let him know. I will not play the low bid game, refuse too. I had someone call today and ask for a price to plow an office building checked it out is probably a $400.oo a push lot. We'll then she says they dont want any salt or antiskid put down. I told her to forget it I am not exposing myself to the liability or headache. 

Her reasoning," well we didn't have any slip and falls last year" why cause the other guy put the salt down for free!!!! Why work for free!!!! Now he is gone and he has turned this office into a money pit for anyone that trys to price it cause this "manager" thinks it should be free!!!

Bottom Line we are professionals doctor's dont do exams for free , why should we!! Too bad all of us in the business don't think like that we would probably all be extremely busy and be making a decent living too


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## NPCInc (Oct 20, 2004)

This evening I returned a phonecall to a potential customer whose driveway I looked at yesterday. I told her my name and she asked me if I was the guy who was going to charge $40. I chuckled just a little and said no, I'm going to charge you $45 (which was my original price to begin with) and then proceeded to tell her that I am fully insured, have a brand new truck and many other clients in her area. She replied with, so you'll be reliable. I said exactly. She didn't say yes but it wasn't worth it to me to use her slip-up. We'll see if I get it.


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## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

It sounds like a lousy $5 is going to break her pocket.


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## Dwan (Mar 24, 2004)

NPCI;
You could call here back and say you will plow for $40 for the plow and $5.00 for reliability


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

Just got a call yesterday from the regional manager for Tom Wahl's restaurants. I won a 34,680 sqft parking lot from a lowballer.. My price $195 + tax for plowing, $170 + tax for salting, $35 + tax for snowblowing/shoveling walks.

Lowballers prices $30 plowing, $90 salt, $10 shoveling... Manager said he is not charging tax (i.e. not a legal contractor) and cannot have insurance.

I asked him why he decided to spend 4x+ what he paid last year to get me to do it. Answer: Because they sued the guy for a slip and fall incident last year and he skipped town. I have new equipment and carry $5,000,000 in plowing liability.

I submitted my bid with the "consumer tips" off SIMA's website; sat down and explained each bullet on the tips sheet.. And got a signed contract!

Keep going, there are some great customers out there!


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## NPCInc (Oct 20, 2004)

Boss, you're probably right. it shouldn't though as the property is four mobile homes she rents out. payup

Dwan, thats funny but I didn't think quick enough to say it directly but was trying to get that across. she sounded receptive but didn't bite right away. she needed to talk to her husband first. she said he wouldn't be very talkative right now because he was off to the hockey game. 

I've got an ad in a local digest coming out tomorrow with 10,000 copy circulation. I'm hoping to get some of those calls from great customers.


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## Grn Mtn (Sep 21, 2004)

*(Hi Steve, Hi Vitaly) Why the Lowballer*

Hi guys, hey we should all meet up for coffee soon, the flakes will be falling this weekend! My guess is we will be plowing in 2 weeks.

When you encounter a new aspect of business it can be hard to price accordingly so you ask around and listen to what the customers are saying. The problem is they heard of some guy charging 160 unlimited and they want in on the pie. So you think about it because it seems everyone you have talked too wants the same thing, so it must be the thing to do. But if your smart, or talk to someone in the business that has a clue, you break it down: Why are everyone you have talked too asking for unlimited from you when you aren't offering it? The reason is they want it because they know they will get the better end of the deal and the guy who offered it is no good or booked up. The customers that don't ask have already found a good plow contractor thus are not looking and pay the premium. These lowballers provide bad service and have to change there business name every year, problem is they keep the low price alive in the minds of some customers, so they keep asking for it. On the other hand these customers that ask for the low price just might be the type you don't want to plow for... they may complain and not pay, etc. SOOO, to make a long story short (if anyone is still with me) Stick with your gut, charge accordingly to your level of expertise and service, the good contracts will come and if you do as you say they will retain you for next year and recammend you. The hard thing is to tough it out those first lean years.
Have you checked out my web site lately? I just added some more picts. I'd love some feedback--RH


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## usabestsnoplowr (Nov 6, 2004)

*Driveways*

Wont touch anything under $50.00 Per push
Salting $50.00
Shoveling walks Hourly


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## Dnipro Max (Aug 27, 2004)

Hi Steve,
congrats on Tom Walth, did u deal with Keath? we did some remodeling for him few year ago,

Hi Grn Mtn
that a goog idea to meet up for some coffee, that right snow is coming soon,

I try to tell people how relible and other we are, but greece area is gone, because everyone that plows there has unlimited trips and price is less that $175 per season, so beat that, Not


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

Dnipro Max said:


> Hi Steve,
> congrats on Tom Walth, did u deal with Keath? we did some remodeling for him few year ago,
> 
> Hi Grn Mtn
> ...


Yes it was Keith. Finally got him to understand that quality is more important than price!

I'd be in on coffee too... Just let me know, when and where..


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## drplow (Nov 7, 2004)

i wont touch a driveway for under 20.00 or 275.00 a season. when some one calls me i first ask why they want me to plow thier drive. most likely they say last guy never showed up and caused some damage when he did show up. they want the best price also. then i ask them what price that guy charged, and they might say 150.00 for the season. well, i ask them the driveway size and say i will look at the job first but it sounds like its going to cost between 275 and 400. and then there is a long pause and then i say, what makes you think im going to charge any less and do a better job than a cowboy. then i make them realize through common sense why i should get the contract and not a lowballer. and with no more pressure, i get their info and tell them i will send them a contract when they call back.

yea, a lot of people around here plow with no ins. no experance, no business sense, lowballers, cowboys or what ever. but the good thing is that next year there mine. and that makes me look better when im done for the season.


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## proshare (Nov 7, 2004)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63688&item=7932455607&rd=1


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

proshare said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63688&item=7932455607&rd=1


$8.99 ARE YOU KIDDING OR NUTS?????


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## proshare (Nov 7, 2004)

qualitylawncare said:


> $8.99 ARE YOU KIDDING OR NUTS?????


Neither, I found the ebay listing while I was on checking out parts so Im just passing it along and thought this thread was the appropriate place to put it.
It certainly isnt me servicing a customer for $8.99. Those guys dont know the difference between being busy & being profitable. 
As a side note..I'm familiar with the North syracuse/mattydale area and they dont usually get much snow there so residential plowing is sort of a joke there.
A kid with a shovel will usually get $10.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Not only is it nuts, but I don't understand what you're bidding on. They already said it's $8.99 a plow (although it shows $9.99 on that site).

Interesting, it's been there since last Wednesday with no "bids".


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

proshare said:


> Neither, I found the ebay listing while I was on checking out parts so Im just passing it along and thought this thread was the appropriate place to put it.
> It certainly isnt me servicing a customer for $8.99. Those guys dont know the difference between being busy & being profitable.
> As a side note..I'm familiar with the North syracuse/mattydale area and they dont usually get much snow there so residential plowing is sort of a joke there.
> A kid with a shovel will usually get $10.


Sorry proshare, I thought it was your eBay listing.. my bad! :waving:


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## Dnipro Max (Aug 27, 2004)

Thats something crazy, that ebay listing


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## proshare (Nov 7, 2004)

heres another on Ebay :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42230&item=4340313431&rd=1


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*low plowing prices*

This is unreal. 30K trucks, 1200+ per yr for insurance, fuel at $1.90 per gal for gasoline, $2.28 for diesel and that only commands under $10 per drive. I bet the commercial properties are also done at a very low price.

We use to have problems of the drunks and low ballers taking the work for part of a season but now we have the area management people also taking work at below cost of equipment operation rates.

When this all settles out the low ballers, drunks and area management people will be all bankrupt and we can get back to the job of removing snow at a price that we can afford to operate our equipment at.

Please see the thread "how has area management effected your business" and chime in... lets hear how that has effected your business.

Dave


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## CGLC (Dec 1, 2004)

proshare said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63688&item=7932455607&rd=1


I just E-mailed the puke and asked how he can live off little amount for his services.


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## cbelawn (Nov 15, 2004)

*Syracuse*

Tehre are signs all over syracuse for $ 8.00 plow.....The guys doing contracts last year for $150.00 per year are up to $ 225.00 customers calling me are shocked at my price, but seem to get 1 out of 3. oh , i do 1 driveway for $ 5.00 been the same price for 20 years!!!!! she is very old. he he


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## daninline (Nov 1, 2004)

Well I'm a part timer but I do it by the book and I don't lowball at all.
If I was to lowball I would just stay home.
So all part timers are not bad

From what I can see here there is not to many trucks with plows or at least good ones.
I have 3 accounts at are at $25 for small drieways and the rest range from $30 to $50 per push, most of them just tell me they just want someone that will show up when it snows.
It's so bad that some have told me that thay don't get returned calls.

I have had my price bumped up from some new accounts as they think it's worth it to have someone that will be there one guy had a small drive I told him $30 he said ok I'll give yo $40 so I was like ok you have a deal  

I had one guy who wanted my to plow a 200ft drive part of it up hill for $30 per push well I told him $40 I think he had his friend plow it before but now he has to pay :crying: 

I don't do parking lots just home accounts the parking lots are for the pro's since there is more time commitment involved and tools needed to do the job properly maybe in a few years I might work my way up there if there is a need for it.

I'm betting for snow.


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## Makndust (Feb 6, 2004)

I have a minimum "housecall charge" of $30.00 for my plow pickup to show up. The ATV's are $20.00. Some people get upset but they are the one's that flag you down and say "can you please just swing by and whip this out for me"? If they want their snow taken care of. sign up on my accounts list otherwise don't try tracking me down once a winter for me to do a favor. Sorry guys, bad attitude due to lowballers, scumbags, and people who go thru life thinking that you owe them something.


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## alpine692003 (Dec 31, 2003)

I dont do residential snow services for one thing, I only service commercial sites.

We dont have much competition out here because we dont get enough snow, the most snow we will ever get is like 2-4" MAX and even that is for a few days..


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## SWC (Dec 14, 2003)

*How's Competition*



The Boss said:


> If drives are getting done for $6.00 per push, I wonder if that's some neighbor kid doing it with a shovel?


When I was a kid, we got $20 to $30 a drive WITH a shovel, and that was many, many snows ago.

$6 a drive, with a truck that you have to maintain? Honestly, I couldn't maintain a shovel for that money. 

You might want to look into a more prosperous line of work, like teaching a small business management course, just for snow pushers.


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## Terra-Care (Jan 29, 2004)

We used to have a problem with lowballers in the area, and I think the majority of our industry still does. In the past year I don't think we noticed them at all, as they plow or maintain most of the accounts we don't want. We found it best to target specific accounts and devote most, if not all, of our attention towards them. Residential accounts are picked up through word of mouth of summer maintenance customers. Our real money comes from targeted places like hospitals, condominium complexes, etc. Just a thought, but it definitely works for us.

Todd


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*competition*

We had a large storm in NE Ohio. The area management and low ballers have had a lot of problems. The area management people who bid so low have very unreliable help. The parking lots took over 3 days to have the snow removed. The company is now trying to get out of the contract with the area management people as they didn't live up to the contract. We also are seeing snow removal contractors who don't know how to plow in a big storm are loosing customers too. I do think in time the snow removal contractors, who know the trade will be overloaded with work again. In our area we are seeing low price equates to poor performance. There is more to operating a snow removal company than owning a plow truck, it just takes a little time to have a customer understand that.

Dave


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## cc2004 (Dec 21, 2004)

drplow,
I love to see that,you are exactly where we are per trip and contract.
Last couple of years we have been letting our lower paying customers go (hate to do it) but, we have been replacing them with customers that will pay what we need to get.

All of our commercials,complexes are (now) per hour for loaders,trucks,sidewalk crews.So far it's worked out good but,we could use a little more snow.

Have a nice new year,be safe.


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## SGLC (Jan 7, 2005)

*Really Dumb Question*

New to plowing, haven't started plowing, won't till next year. But when we mention per hour charges for side walks and crews. You have a figure ie $50/hr for sidewalks. Snow fall comes, you go do the side walk and takes you 2 hours. you charge $100. Now another snow fall and it takes you 3 hours cause there was more snow....now you charge $150.00. Correct?


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

That would be the way it works. $50 an hour for a shovell would be pretty good. $50 an hour for a 4 wheel drive machine would be low.


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## SGLC (Jan 7, 2005)

$50 was just an example. I was going to use $10 for a nice simple number but then I may of got taken out by the lowballer goon squad lol.  


That last part was a joke.


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