# 62 customers and freaking out



## MichelleinMich

Hey,

Let me start by saying "We" are new. (I'm the wife who does the billing, customer service, marketing, etc.) My husband his guy do all the work. I'm the one who's also online here looking for some answers. 

We live in Michigan and just completed our 3rd successful year of landscaping with 85+ weekly customers plus tons of mulch, etc. We finally decided to start snowplowing this year since we're sick of losing lawn customers to the snow guy.

We hired some guys to hand out 10,000 flyers that I designed and in the end we have 62 snow accounts, all residential except for two offices, not too big. My husband is such a hard worker and is confident this will not be a problem but I would really like to hear somebody saying that it IS POSSIBLE to plow this many accounts? I know I know you can't answer this clearly without knowing how far apart the homes are but assuming a best case scenario is this possible?

By the way we bought a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 with an 8' Western V-Plow to which we just put on brand new blades and shoes (we have some customers with rocky driveways so we decided to go with shoes.) We also bought a snow thrower and salter for the back of the truck for the two offices.

Can someone please give me some hope that this will be possible? We're expecting a dumpload of snow tonight and I'm freaking just slightly.

Also, is there a good video anyone recommends to show how to properly plow? My husband went out this morning just for the two offices and realized he has an issue leaving lines of snow all over the place.

Sorry to ramble. Good to be here.


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## show-n-go

Sounds to me like you need to hire a sub or two. Especially if he is still learning how to plow. I'm not sure if there is a "how to" video for plowing however there are tones of videos on this site of people plowing. The lines of snow are normal with a regular blade but with a vplow there a way to fix that, I have never plowed woth a vplow so you'll have to wait untill the rest of the guy's chime in. I'd say you could cure the windrows by plowing in scoop mode.


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## Nelsen

Wow, welcome to the site and welcome to the industry. You certainly have a lot in that post.

I'm one of those small landscapers/plow guys who try and get that season/season business of yours. 

So first, great decision to keep that customer all the year through. But 62 residentials depending on how they are located, can be a bit of a strain for 1 truck. In fact, I don't know anyone who has that many accounts on one truck unless a HMA is built in there somewhere. It is POSSIBLE, but I don't probable that you won't have some timing issues.

Map the route on Google maps and see how long it will take to just drive the route. Add 5-15 minutes per drive depending on what they look like and see where you're at.

Most residential customers want it done by a certain time if allowable (timing of the storm). But, there are some guys on here that don't even start (and I'm not sure how they stay in business) until after the snow is done flying.

The line thing....start a new thread with V-PLOW problem title and see if you get some hits. I don't a have a V, but plenty do and I'm sure it's been addressed here before. 

Much luck. Tell your husband he'll sleep in April. Lol

Rick


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## Jaynen

Its my second year doing snow removal. First year with a plow. I got 11 accounts and thats plenty for me to keep my hands full. Especially on a bad snow storm. But I am sure if your good with a plow which I am deffinatly not yet, you can prolly do 20 or 30. I have my driveways almost perfectly clean at the end cuz I go over it with a shovel, so I average 20-30mins a driveway. Depends on the quality of the job. If I had 62 I would be screwed.


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## buckwheat_la

i think you well be fine, 62 contracts with two people is about right, if you guys are good with the plow and stuff, just make sure your clients know that you are trying hard, to get things done/organized, also, it wouldn't hurt to have a couple guys/friends that can help in when you have a really bad snowfall, lots of agencies that have temp workers available too, you guys well be fine, worst case scenario, you get a couple extra shovels, and a couple of subs, and you drive around with them and hand shovel some of them, even with a bad snow (over a foot) you should be able to do a place every 1/2hour with a couple of shovels


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## Mark Oomkes

Sure it's possible, as long as your route doesn't cover too much area--wasted time driving not plowing.


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## 2COR517

It can definitely be done. But you need to know how to plow, and plow quickly. Without out destroying equipment. It will come after a storm or two. Hopefully your route is tight. If you are travelling a few miles for one or two drives, get rid of them. Also, know your customers' schedules. Some will work second or third shift, so plow accordingly. If it's a real bad storm, just knock out a hole so they can get in and out. After it's all over, you can go back and clean up.

Best of luck, and welcome aboard.


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## LEVE

With that many customers... and one truck, *be sure to make maintenance of that truck and plow a priority.*


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## JDiepstra

Wow I don't want to scare you but if he is having trouble with leaving trails all over a parking lot and can't figure out how to solve the problem, it's going to be a long winter plowing 62 accounts every snowfall. Keep in mind, in a big storm, it will be more like 124 accounts as he will have to hit each one at least twice. 

I am assuming that he has the blade angled to the side (say the right side) and is leaving trails off the left side? If this is the case he needs to either take smaller bites, or go faster. I'd recommend the earlier. 

Have a good season.


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## D&S snowplowing

ya 62 is a bit for 1 truck... if he cant it all done an like a 2 inch trigger id say talk to some customers and they might want you to do them if it 3 or 4 inches but for the route the way i like to do it is pretty much a big circle and work my way back to my home or shop that way theres not really any backtracking which is a big key to save time


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## grandview

You better make some snow plow friends fast! One truck all season ,yes it can be done but even a flat tire can set you way back. I think you should of capped yourself at 25-30 driveways this year.I think maybe you should find a backup truck just in case ,it don't need to be pretty just be able to plow just in case. 

Since your in charge of the office part ,make sure all calls go to you only ,don't have any go to him it will cost plowing time if he starts talking to people. never promise anyone anything ,just do the best you can.

Also,personally ,do not go off on him if he's in a *****y mood ,just leave him be for awhile.


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## JDiepstra

grandview;896909 said:


> Also,personally ,do not go off on him if he's in a *****y mood ,just leave him be for awhile.


That, is hilarious! :laughing:


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## cmo18

I had 28 clients, one truck, real tight route took me 4 hrs just to open everyone up....another 2.5 hrs clean everybody up...62 is pushing it, buy a back up truck....best of luck


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## Comet

MichelleinMich;896616 said:


> Hey,
> 
> have 62 snow accounts, all residential except for two offices, not too big.
> .


My goodness
I really doubt it with only one truck and no experience
Hire some subs to help out

Good luck


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## Smitty58

I think you should look for some help. If the drives are short ,say 40 feet long they can be done pretty quick with a snowblower or a quad. You could possibly hire a sub or 2 to help ,and they would not have to have a plow truck, just some basic equipment and the desire to do it. You seem to be able to grow your company pretty fast which is good, however nothing will shrink your company faster than irate customers. The last thing you want to do is get a reputation for not being able to take care of your customer. Everyone wants to be your top priority, with plowing you are going to upset a good number of those 62 if it doesn't stop snowing in time to get them done.


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## 7_below

Thats a lot of work for 1 man and 1 truck with no exp. Not saying it cant be done, but a lot of work! Definitely find another contractor to help out. At least for the first year, so you don't lose any clients after the first big storm. You could try craigslist. Just look up the guys that are still looking for plow accts. and call 'em.
Good luck to ya!


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## Lil STX Ford

1 truck, 62 customers @ 15 minutes per driveway avg... is like 16 hrs non stop then add travel..


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## Matson Snow

Michelle...My advice to you is try to find someone to help you guys out...There is no way you can service all those accounts in the proper amount of time. The last thing you want to do is ruin your company name....Good Luck to you and your husband


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## Camden

Lil STX Ford;896966 said:


> 1 truck, 62 customers @ 15 minutes per driveway avg... is like 16 hrs non stop then add travel..


If it takes you 15 minutes to plow a driveway you have the wrong equipment.

Speaking of equipment, this person needs a rear plow. An average sized driveway can be done in just a few minutes by using the combination of rear & front plow.


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## grandview

Jaynen;896648 said:


> Its my second year doing snow removal. First year with a plow. I got 11 accounts and thats plenty for me to keep my hands full. Especially on a bad snow storm. But I am sure if your good with a plow which I am deffinatly not yet, you can prolly do 20 or 30. I have my driveways almost perfectly clean at the end cuz I go over it with a shovel, so I average 20-30mins a driveway. Depends on the quality of the job. If I had 62 I would be screwed.


Hijack.

You must be a rich guy looking for something to do.


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## EcoGreen Serv

I can't imagine doing 62. Especially with a storm like we had today with 7" of wet snow. At least half had to be done twice. And i have to blow the walks at about 1/2 of them. 

Then again, my shortest driveway is about 300ft and my longest is over 3000ft.

I did 47 pushes in 9 hours today... A tight route with suburban drives is doable


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## the new boss 92

find subs fast! its not an impossible route but you need help the first couple storms if your husband doesnt know how to operate a v blade! i would find help for a little bit before you get a bad namefor your company!


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## EPPSLLC

Can you answer some questions for me ? 

How man total leads came in? 
How many of your lead to you convert ? (ie how many did you close) 

With the answers to these questions it will give me your closing ratio ... You may just need to raise your prices!


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## In2toys

Get a set of wings for the v. Find some subs. Good luck


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## suzuki0702

im gonna agree...too much for one truck! get another employee and another truck and enjoy the money!


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## Clapper&Company

SIMA, has some good training videos, on there web site you can buy! Also I think they have a sale going on right now!

There website is: www.SIMA.ORG

Also, I might not be a bad Idea to join, they have a lot of great info for them members.

If you have any question's about SIMA or anything else, feel free to email me.

Welcome to the site, and Good Luck!


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## Lawn Enforcer

Hire some subs for sure. A local company in town does 105 accounts with a 3500 Chevy 9ft BOSS, S130 w/ regular bucket, and a 763 w/ regular bucket and it takes them about 8 hours. And all the accounts are within 2 miles.


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## naturalgreen

u better have a back up truck and plow
06 trucks can get problems quick when you have 20 hrs straight plowing
I carry every spare part I can for my truck and have a spare truck and plow
and I say 6o something drives for 1 truck will be hard unless they r 10 feet apart


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## Nelsen

> You seem to be able to grow your company pretty fast which is good, however nothing will shrink your company faster than irate customers.


Yup, Yup, Yup!


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## abbe

i did 35 with snow blowers for the last two years and they were all in 2 miles and it took me 8 hours. finally into commercial now


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## EPPSLLC

Okay maybe if i post this bigger some one will read it! Before you ad employees you need to RAISE your prices!!!! You should be closing around 60% if you are closing every job your too low! Look at your numbers and see what your net is going to be!

Again if you will give me the # of calls v.s. the number of closed customers I may be able to help you because the only thing sweeter than 62 customers at $20 is 31 customers at $40.. HALF THE WORK FOR THE SAME MONEY!!!!


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## JDiepstra

EPPSLLC;898379 said:


> Okay maybe if i post this bigger some one will read it! Before you ad employees you need to RAISE your prices!!!! You should be closing around 60% if you are closing every job your too low! Look at your numbers and see what your net is going to be!
> 
> Again if you will give me the # of calls v.s. the number of closed customers I may be able to help you because the only thing sweeter than 62 customers at $20 is 31 customers at $40.. HALF THE WORK FOR THE SAME MONEY!!!!


That's nice but nobody was asking about that.


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## naturalgreen

he obviously was
Very true about keeping customers happyy.
U can spend all day listening to angry messages.
That is not fun


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## mycirus

Get a second truck and get out and help him. Divide the route in half and you have a perfect number.


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## Matson Snow

Clapper&Company;897661 said:


> SIMA, has some good training videos, on there web site you can buy! Also I think they have a sale going on right now!
> 
> There website is: www.SIMA.ORG
> 
> Also, I might not be a bad Idea to join, they have a lot of great info for them members.
> 
> If you have any question's about SIMA or anything else, feel free to email me.
> 
> Welcome to the site, and Good Luck!


Clapper...Very Nice Write-up in Snow Magazine..Also like clapper said you should look into joining SIMA. Very helpful info


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## Winfrey

if i was closer id help ya out but im in swartz creek. if yall got any up my way id b happy to take them off ur hands.


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## Clapper&Company

Matson Snow;898421 said:


> Clapper...Very Nice Write-up in Snow Magazine..Also like clapper said you should look into joining SIMA. Very helpful info


Thanks !!!!


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## JDiepstra

Any follow up on how it's going from the OP's?


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## snocrete

Ok, here's my 2 cents......Find a sub with a truck/plow, quickly, to help on every storm. I would also send your extra worker (prefferably 2 workers) in a seperate truck with shovels & blowers to do some of these jobs, leaving your husband strictly focused on the task at hand (learning to plow), & you take the phone calls/manage the storm. This way you have split up 62 locations between 3 rigs (obviously keeping each route as tight as possible). With this setup you "should" be somewhat covered in the case of a breakdown or whatever.... and also be able to complete them in decent time on big storms. 

Alot depends on how big these drives are, and how close each is to one another. But assuming they are within a reasonable distance of each other, with my suggestion I would think you would be fine. But for 1 truck (even with a passenger to shovel), you are setting up for disaster.

It is better to be over prepared, and later realize you can take on more work, than to go out and fall flat on your face the first storm and look unproffesional to the customers.

Good Luck!


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## MahonLawnCare

> Clapper...Very Nice Write-up in Snow Magazine..Also like clapper said you should look into joining SIMA. Very helpful info


he had plenty of time to close on snow contracts....it's not like he was busy mowing!!! :laughing: hahaha just kidding buddy


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## EPPSLLC

JDiepstra;898400 said:


> That's nice but nobody was asking about that.


I swear every one in this business (with the exception to a few) are so tech. minded it makes me sick! Do you do this to work or do you do it to make money! If its the later i am just trying to help its basic business principals! If you like doing it just to work then rock on with you bad self and live a middle income life for ever! Me... not gonna happen... I guess this is what you get when you try to help some one out ...

I'm just gonna keep doing me


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## Clapper&Company

MahonLawnCare;898761 said:


> he had plenty of time to close on snow contracts....it's not like he was busy mowing!!! :laughing: hahaha just kidding buddy


You know it!!!


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## jomama45

EPPSLLC;898793 said:


> I swear every one in this business (with the exception to a few) are so tech. minded it makes me sick! Do you do this to work or do you do it to make money! If its the later i am just trying to help its basic business principals! If you like doing it just to work then rock on with you bad self and live a middle income life for ever! Me... not gonna happen... I guess this is what you get when you try to help some one out ...
> 
> I'm just gonna keep doing me


Just take a deep breath & relax! The OP hasn't returned to answer your questions, or anyone elses for that matter. She's probably out shoveling her ass off right now. And with the predicament they're in right now, I would imagine their closing ratio is the last thing on their mind right now. I can understand where your going with this, but I think it's a little late to raise their prices at this point. I'm sure it will be a hard leason learned for them.


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## EPPSLLC

jomama45;898837 said:


> Just take a deep breath & relax! The OP hasn't returned to answer your questions, or anyone elses for that matter. She's probably out shoveling her ass off right now. And with the predicament they're in right now, I would imagine their closing ratio is the last thing on their mind right now. I can understand where your going with this, but I think it's a little late to raise their prices at this point. I'm sure it will be a hard leason learned for them.


THERE IS HOPE!!!! lol sorry bout the last post guys i just get fired up because i hate it when i see people not making as much as they could or think that getting work is making money ... :salute:


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## JD Dave

EPPSLLC;898882 said:


> THERE IS HOPE!!!! lol sorry bout the last post guys i just get fired up because i hate it when i see people not making as much as they could or think that getting work is making money ... :salute:


They handed out 10,000 flyers and I'm sure out of the 80 something lawn accounts some wanted there snow plowed also. As long as your accounts are close you will be fine. Take your time and make sure to stop fully when going forward to reverse. Your shoes being low is what is causing the lines in the pavement and can be adjust easily. Also there are alot of threads on here if you do a search pertaining to plowing gravel. A backblade is a must like Camden said to be productive doing driveways. I also agree about Sima training video's but the problem is by the time you get the vids in the mail you will have already figured it out or will be out of business. Hope things go well for you.


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## jomama45

JD Dave;899008 said:


> They handed out 10,000 flyers and I'm sure out of the 80 something lawn accounts some wanted there snow plowed also. As long as your accounts are close *you will be fine.* Take your time and make sure to stop fully when going forward to reverse. Your shoes being low is what is causing the lines in the pavement and can be adjust easily. Also there are alot of threads on here if you do a search pertaining to plowing gravel. A backblade is a must like Camden said to be productive doing driveways. I also agree about Sima training video's but the problem is by the time you get the vids in the mail you will have already figured it out or* will be out of business.* Hope things go well for you.


Wow, that's quite the range of optimism Dave! :laughing:


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## Matson Snow

EPPSLLC;898793 said:


> I swear every one in this business (with the exception to a few) are so tech. minded it makes me sick! Do you do this to work or do you do it to make money! If its the later i am just trying to help its basic business principals! If you like doing it just to work then rock on with you bad self and live a middle income life for ever! Me... not gonna happen... I guess this is what you get when you try to help some one out ...
> 
> I'm just gonna keep doing me


Last thing these people need right now is a lecture from a Wayne Voltz wanna be right now...They dont need marketing advice at this time..They need useful answers as how to handle these accounts....


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## 2COR517

Matson Snow;899028 said:


> Last thing these people need right now is a lecture from a Wayne Voltz wanna be right now...They dont need marketing advice at this time..They need useful answers as how to handle these accounts....


x2. Plus, Like Dave said, they had some accounts from their lawn business. If I handed out 10,000 flyers, and only picked up let's say 40 accounts, I would be bummed. Of course, 10,000 flyers would cover the whole county here, with some left over. I would need 15 trucks just to cover the area.....


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## BOSSMAN21

Yes, like JDDave said, you will be fine as long as the accounts are somewhat close. I know a guy here who does 105 accounts with a half ton truck (yes that is right a half ton truck) and a 7 1/2 foot fisher. The reason he gets it done every time is because he has experience, a good back up truck, and they are all somewhat close. I have rode with him many times in storms when I was younger (because I am good friends with his son), and he goes around and punches a hole at every important place so people can get out and then he cleans up when the people are at work. I think that you will be fine even if he has somewhat of a bit of common sense. Also, listen to what these guys on here tell you, they have great information, and know what they are talking about, well most of them. I think, as others have said, you need a backup truck, whether it is a old beater or a brand new truck, it just has to run and get the job done if your truck breaks down.


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## dannyslawn

My advice to you guys is make sure you charge enough. Remember you are on call 24/7 through out the winter. We work in terrible conditions and it can put alot of wear and tear on equipment. I would also get a sub to help out. Do a quality job in a reasonable amount of time and you will build a good following. Good luck!


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## f8lkx450

I live just south of you in rochester and looking for work. Truck is ready to go. You can email me at [email protected]


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## elite1msmith

*CANT BE DONE " properly"*

yes it could be done, but not properly. not in a manor yoru customers will be happy with, unless 75% of them are senoirs that dont go out and dont mind waiting

do this - map quest the entire route, job to job. see what it takes...then add at least 25% on back roads, and 50% on main roads that have traffic.

62 accounts, well at 5 mins per account = just over 5 hours, thats with no travel. I like long routes and making the coin, but honestly in the end you will end up loosing accounts to people not happy with your time frame.

If they all want to be out by 8 am , if not sooner, (i have 5 am jobs) even if the snow stopped by 2 am, and things went right for you you still could not have it done in time. where it gets really complicated is storms that stop at 3-4 am..... just early enough that people wake up with it not snowing and expect their drive plowed.... just late enough to screw up your route

Fact #2 - your husband is inexperianced. this is bad for a few reasons... plowing takes practice to be good.... being in a hurry, with a tight route...VERY BAD AND STUPID idea. it will lead to an accident, which will lead to MONEY out the door, and loosing a customer... OR it will lead to a brake down on the truck because hes learning....and you will loose all your customers to being late. even if you get a sub to cover you , by that time you are late. peroid. thats all people care about, because if they couldnt get out of there drive to go to work.....then they were late and your service let them down.

fact #3 Even with a tight route, and a super experianced driver (which you dont have).... you left no marin for errors. AND ALOT goes wrong on a regular basis. things break...sometimes they can be fixed, sometimes your done for the night. unless your husband has time under his belt doing repairs on his plow and truck...and KNOWS the systems... and how to fix them - thats a problem go to him RIGHT NOW, and ask him, if the hydro hose blew on his truck, what tools would he need to fix it, and every part. and how long it would take.. then physically go into the garge right now and do it. my bet is he would say " well i dont a hose, and i dont have the fluid" -

Take this in for thought.- I only state all this after a few years prior of being in this business and running my own company the wrong way. After learning from my mistakes, this are much better.

Dont look at the profit you could make...instead look at what you could loose by it going wrong. sounds like you built a good lanwcare company...now that you are doing snow for some of these people, are you willing to chance your customer base and your GAUREENTIED summer income?

on a side note - always have a back up plan. they can include subs , but realisticly i only like to rely on myself or my own company.. for example if you only own 1 truck, and a snow blower... how many of these driveways could you blow if your truck broke down.... my guess is around 10 or so....

Get a sub with 2 trucks to help you out. each do 20 drives, that makes for short routes, good time to learn, and if anything goes wrong it will not kill your route times.

If you do a great job and are there EVERY time, ON time... you will get all 62 back next year. thats when you can really grow and your advertising dollars worked in the long run.


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## naturalgreen

back up truck
back up truck
beginner mistake is no back up truck especially with 62 customers


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## kootoomootoo

i want to play poker with all you guys who think he will be fine lol.
Guess where you guys are it only snows between 9pm and midnight.


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## naturalgreen

Im with you
how long can the bluff last before the sht hits the fan


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## buckwheat_la

i am going to call your bluff's, i don't think what they are doing is impossible, just really really hard, sure they over booked themselves, and have their work cut out for themselves, but i bet if they are hard working enough they are going to come out of this ok. and they are going to learn some things along the way. BUT i well let you negative comment people in on something, these people have obviously worked hard to build up 60+ contracts and if they have strong enough wills they well get it done. I don't really care what everyone else has to say, i hope you prove everyone else wrong, Work hard and GOOD LUCK!


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## ontario026

I've got 30 some accounts this year, ranging from 3 small commercial lots done first then about 30 driveways... Wednesday's 20cm was the first outing, and it was slow of course, with no existing banks, so edges of drives had to be found without peeling too much sod etc... and it took me about 11 hours... Keep in mind my route covers about 30 miles, due to where I live and where my business is... most of my drives are in the area of my business, but I do a my commercials and a few drives in the town where I live, and some on the way to my main area.... I know the next snow will be much quicker, now that the banks are defined, but I don't plan on looking for more drives, I will only take more if they are easy and located on my existing route...

Matthew

For 62 accounts on 1 truck I hope your route is waaaaayyyyy tighter than mine, and easy/quick drives....


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## elite1msmith

buckwheat_la;899854 said:


> i am going to call your bluff's, i don't think what they are doing is impossible, just really really hard, *sure they over booked themselve*s, and have their work cut out for themselves, but i bet _if they are hard working enough_ they are going to come out of this ok. and they are going to learn some things along the way. BUT i well let you negative comment people in on something, these people have obviously worked hard to build up 60+ contracts and if they have strong enough wills they well get it done. I don't really care what everyone else has to say, i hope you prove everyone else wrong, Work hard and GOOD LUCK!


I was just posting my thoughts, But the "nice try" or the hard working people...doesnt get the drives plowed when the truck breaks down. And thats the problem. If he was the worlds best driver, had a tight route, everything went right, snow stopped by midnight, nothing broke, no flat tires, he didnt get pulled over by the cops, no roads got shut down because they had too much snow...it only snowed 3-4 inches at a max, all 62 of his customers were not in a hurry to get out and didnt mind waiting till 10 am... THEN YES IT CAN BE DONE.

The point is in all that ODDS ARE one of those things listed abouve will happen, it will stop snowing at 4 am. the plow will break once this year, he will have a 8 inch storm. I have found business to be a long term thing, he did a great thing by getting 62 accounts, I would do everything to keep them. Once your are late with snow...thats just it , your late. it only takes 1 time to start loosing accounts. and a few times to get a bad reputation.

But hey MATH doesnt lie. If you can plow a drive with 4 inches of snow in less than 5 mins, great - CORRECTLY? some you can yes, some take much longer...but a fair average is 5 x 62 = 5 hours with ZERO travel figured in. a 4 am snow storm, and he would be [email protected]

to the gentalmen with the 11 hour route, your telling me if it stopped at 4 am, not only did you not clear a custmers drive before they left for work, ...you just baerly got it plowed when that person came home from work. Id be one pissed off customer if i came home and my drive still wasnt plowed out

jmo


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## kashman

62 acc never plowed this is what will happen blown trans bent a frame and 40 people that will drop you this year


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## buckwheat_la

ok, your point is made, now let me make mine, if he is serious about his plowing, doesn't stop for the BS tim hortons stop every 1hr or so, maybe he gets his wife out there in the minivan with a couple friends and shovels, and they work hard at it. or run down to the local hardware store and buy the last snow blower, and run there asses off, THEY CAN DO THIS, you know what i am saying is these people need our support right now, not a bunch of critizism about the fact they booked up a lot of contracts for one guy, give the constructive suggestions (which you give some)

i am the guy who has over booked and was hit by that crappy 2 foot snowfall, or has had a breakdown in the middle of the night, or worked 72hrs straight, or shovelled a parking lot with 10guys with shovels,my point is simply this, if you were in the same situation would you want a bunch of people sitting there lecturing you about how you screwed up, or would you want a bunch of people going, you can do it, here are ideas how?


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## elite1msmith

i would gladly take the thoughts and ideas of others on how to get the job done. and i am in no way saying they shouldnt be in the snow business. what im saying seems like they have a great lawncare company, and that probablly lead to a good foot in the door for snow. The whole point if this was they didnt want to loose anymore customers. One single problem and thats exactly what will happen. 

how many times have guys posted "should i get into snow removal" and most people on here state they should go and learn the business on some one elses time, dime and equiptment, and not on there own...in this case your saying thats its ok for an inexperianced guy to plow for himself, a route that is just plain crazy..... why? becasue he signed 62 accounts? 

you got a guy above with 30 saying he barely did his route., math doesnt lie, and point is... ok he could shovel, but by the time it came down to that hes so fare late that people have called other contractors. if i was a business owner and saw you shoveling my parking lot.. I would say thank god they are getting it done... but if it was 3 hours later that it was suppost to be done, and i coulnt open my business on time... you would be fired the moment another plow guy pulled onto my lot. in fact, i probablly would call you in breech of contract and not pay anyof your invoices since now i have to hire another contractor at a higher price

I could mow by myself 18 lawns per day, x 6 days = 108 lawns per week... yes i COULD DO IT.... but should I? should i do it with ONE LAWNMOWER? not have a back up with that many accounts.

either way he decides to go, at the end of the season heres what he will have to think about 

A. i hired 2 subs... i didnt make as much money as i could have, but every one was happy, things were done on time, i made some money, i didnt break my truck, and I WILL HAVE ALL 62 back next season, which i will have more trucks ready, and those 62 will eadh tell a friend and he might have 100 plus

or 

B. I messed up,. i got 40 accounts that dropped, I can never have their business again becasue i told them the work would be done, and it wasnt, so they no longer trust me.... Not only did i not make it thru this season with those customers to make money , but for seasons to come i loose money form these people, including landscaping... and WORST OF ALL every one customer you pissed off becasue they were late for work will tell 3 more people about your terrible service - PROVEN TRUE FACT


----------



## buckwheat_la

AND any of this helps the HOW? RIGHT NOW!!!, i think we can all agree they overstepped their means, but i tell you what, if someone started a lecture at me when i was in the middle of a crisis, i would have a fit, jmo


----------



## elite1msmith

it helps by getting the rality check and them figuring out it cant be done, and they need more trucks or subs - it helps by keeping there business for next year -

and once the difference if they end up paying friends to help shovel, or paying a sub. just do it right from the begining and get a needed and proper equiptment- if they cant buy another truck - that means get a sub


----------



## 2COR517

This thread could go down as a top ten "One Post Wonder"

62 replies, guys yelling at each other, others justifying their screen name, and the OP is nowhere to be found.

They are probably sleeping it off. What did they get for snow?


----------



## buckwheat_la

lol, i bet they have had one hell of a event, but i well also bet they got everything done


----------



## Jaynen

> Originally Posted by Jaynen
> Its my second year doing snow removal. First year with a plow. I got 11 accounts and thats plenty for me to keep my hands full. Especially on a bad snow storm. But I am sure if your good with a plow which I am deffinatly not yet, you can prolly do 20 or 30. I have my driveways almost perfectly clean at the end cuz I go over it with a shovel, so I average 20-30mins a driveway. Depends on the quality of the job. If I had 62 I would be screwed.





grandview;897062 said:


> Hijack.
> 
> You must be a rich guy looking for something to do.


Deffinatly not rich. I just didnt want to take to many contracts when I didnt even know how to plow yet and have people disappointed or have damaged property. I have done my run 3 times now and hit a couple of curbs but other than that no damage and clean driveways. I was able to take my time and not be in a rush. I feel a little more confident to take on some more accounts now and next year I think I am gonna aim for the 20 mark.


----------



## Lil STX Ford

Camden;897059 said:


> If it takes you 15 minutes to plow a driveway you have the wrong equipment.
> 
> Speaking of equipment, this person needs a rear plow. An average sized driveway can be done in just a few minutes by using the combination of rear & front plow.


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2009/02/24/nb-snow-records.html
but we get snow here  So this stuff 1 truck... hmmmm


----------



## Junior MO

MichelleinMich;896616 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Let me start by saying "We" are new. (I'm the wife who does the billing, customer service, marketing, etc.) My husband his guy do all the work. I'm the one who's also online here looking for some answers.
> 
> We live in Michigan and just completed our 3rd successful year of landscaping with 85+ weekly customers plus tons of mulch, etc. We finally decided to start snowplowing this year since we're sick of losing lawn customers to the snow guy.
> 
> We hired some guys to hand out 10,000 flyers that I designed and in the end we have 62 snow accounts, all residential except for two offices, not too big. My husband is such a hard worker and is confident this will not be a problem but I would really like to hear somebody saying that it IS POSSIBLE to plow this many accounts? I know I know you can't answer this clearly without knowing how far apart the homes are but assuming a best case scenario is this possible?
> 
> By the way we bought a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 with an 8' Western V-Plow to which we just put on brand new blades and shoes (we have some customers with rocky driveways so we decided to go with shoes.) We also bought a snow thrower and salter for the back of the truck for the two offices.
> 
> Can someone please give me some hope that this will be possible? We're expecting a dumpload of snow tonight and I'm freaking just slightly.
> 
> Also, is there a good video anyone recommends to show how to properly plow? My husband went out this morning just for the two offices and realized he has an issue leaving lines of snow all over the place.
> 
> Sorry to ramble. Good to be here.


Anything is possible, however you have to make sure you are set up to handle the 'worst case' scenario. A good storm with a minor malfunction will set you back; I would prepare yourself for that by lining out subs or having a backup truck/plow.

Another thing is contact with customers. During weather events they really like being contacted before they discover the problems themselves. We set up our customers on a e-mail list and we send out numerous messages before, during, and after storms. Customers are also a lot easier to deal with if you initiate first contact if something happens. They also like to be kept in the loop mainly because they want to know that they will be taken care of.

If you cannot e-mail then maybe think about setting up a call list so while your husband is out plowing you can contact people at the office. This may take some time, but if you have angry customers calling you will have to take the time deal with that anyway.

I hope this helps. Hang in there; the first couple of seasons are always the rockiest.


----------



## Brant'sLawnCare

show-n-go;896637 said:


> Sounds to me like you need to hire a sub or two. Especially if he is still learning how to plow. I'm not sure if there is a "how to" video for plowing however there are tones of videos on this site of people plowing. The lines of snow are normal with a regular blade but with a vplow there a way to fix that, I have never plowed woth a vplow so you'll have to wait untill the rest of the guy's chime in. I'd say you could cure the windrows by plowing in scoop mode.


He will be out for a long time. I am talking probably a full week for a really big storm. I would hope to have 3 trucks at least if I had that much work. I have around 40 accounts, and that's plenty for 2 trucks to do. We were out for a long time the last few days clearing everything up.


----------



## michiganblizz

Grand Rapids area got dumped on, something like 20+ inches total over the last few days, i am sure he is either sleeping, in a coma, or in the hospitol for back pain. I am sure we will hear an update soon once the lake effect stops. 

PS- if you need help we can come over and assist, we have been there before, and i wish you the best.


----------



## CHCSnowman

Yeah......I bet he is one beat puppy. If he survived it will be a good Christmas for him.....wish we could get a big snow.


----------



## Quality SR

Wheres Michelle?? Is she still out plowing from Wednesday?


----------



## elite1msmith

Quality SR;901026 said:


> Wheres Michelle?? Is she still out plowing from Wednesday?


still sleeping...

she probablly only got to bed around 10 pm yesterday.


----------



## Quality SR

elite1msmith;901035 said:


> still sleeping...
> 
> she probablly only got to bed around 10 pm yesterday.


LMAO..........:laughing:


----------



## buckwheat_la

i bet they worked 24 hours until done, thats devotion boys!!!


----------



## ProLawn Outdoor

I'll chime in being that this is my first winter plowing so I am kind of in the same situation. I only have like 10 drives because i still Have to go to school. After the first storm, I kinda got the hang of it. But I am no where close to as good as some of the guys around here. I would definatley get a sub to help. I also would have another guy who is experienced to ride along with your husband. I learned pretty fast from watching good guys. By next winter, if you have a back-up truck, he could probably handle all those accounts, but this winter, definately get someone to help.


----------



## creativedesigns

A 95 hp tractor with inverted snowblower is by FACT the only way to go with that many resis if your counting on being productive & efficient. This is the best equipment piece for resis in a condensed route. Trucks of any kind will be outplowed 3 : 1


----------



## cda817

I agree on the 10-15 minutes per driveway. Unless they are immediately next too each other it is going to take that much time with travel, plowing driveway and doing the sidewalks.


----------



## plowmaster07

Okay, so the best advice that I have for you, is get some sub's lined up. Like most of the other guys mentioned. I am not going to beat a dead horse, but I am very curious to hear how things turned out.
Best of luck to you and your husband,
Aaron


----------



## ghost

Shouldnt you of thought about this before you took on so much


----------



## ksnow

Come on guys give them a break they will make it thru it after this storm they will most likely have subs in place.


----------



## buckwheat_la

ksnow;901872 said:


> Come on guys give them a break they will make it thru it after this storm they will most likely have subs in place.


agreed, and again, i say good on them for trying!!!


----------



## JD Dave

Brant'sLawnCare;900604 said:


> He will be out for a long time. I am talking probably a full week for a really big storm. I would hope to have 3 trucks at least if I had that much work. I have around 40 accounts, and that's plenty for 2 trucks to do. We were out for a long time the last few days clearing everything up.


How do you know what types of driveways they are? I know a company that has 6 trucks and he sent a new guy out to do 50 drives his first time out and he got them done in a reasonable time. We don't know enough facts to say for sure if he can do it. I will agree having one sub would be good idea, having 2 subs is a joke for 60 driveways unless they are country drive and 10 minutes apart. JMO


----------



## JD Dave

Mark Oomkes;896665 said:


> Sure it's possible, as long as your route doesn't cover too much area--wasted time driving not plowing.


Post #9 Mark answered the OP question. Plus the OP hasn't been on since she started the thread.


----------



## ScottPA

Hmm, I'm going to have to say NO WAY could 1 person service that many accounts by themselves. He might be able to plow all of them.. but I'm sure most are gonna call bitc-hing that they were late for work because the snowplow guy didnt show up till after noon and WaH WAH wahH.


----------



## JohnnyRoyale

OP hasnt been on in days...which makes me wonder... Where is Michelle??? 

( a new plowsite game where the next poster can only add three words to the previous post. ) I will start with, 


Michelle is probably


----------



## ScottPA

JohnnyRoyale;902052 said:


> OP hasnt been on in days...which makes me wonder... Where is Michelle???
> 
> ( a new plowsite game where the next poster can only add three words to the previous post. ) I will start with,
> 
> Michelle is probably


going freaking crazy


----------



## 2COR517

...because she forgot....


----------



## buckwheat_la

JohnnyRoyale;902052 said:


> OP hasnt been on in days...which makes me wonder... Where is Michelle???
> 
> ( a new plowsite game where the next poster can only add three words to the previous post. ) I will start with,
> 
> Michelle is probably


making incredible money


----------



## ScottPA

buckwheat_la;902062 said:


> making incredible money


Bah, you screwed it up!


----------



## green frog

Michelle, I am also a small company in Buffalo,NY and I have 63 accounts but 5 are commercial and only 1 is big. We are running 2 1995 f250's with 7.5ft wetern pro plows and a jeep cherokee as a back up with a 6:6" western plow. You can do it but should hire someone or your husband will be praying for spring. We just got a storm wed night that came really late. I went out at 4am and got home at 10pm at night. I only got 46 properties done because of traffic and so many white outs had to pull over and wait till I could see. My employee has only plowed 10 properties until this year and thought it would be easy. So he left at 5am and got home at 7pm but only did 26 properties and had to sleep. My wife will make calls in big storms to find out who must be out or explain what is going on. We went out friday morning at 2am to clean up drifts and some properties looked like we were never there. My employees plow snapped the pivot bolt on plow with 7 properties left. So I had to go out and bring him my truck and take his home to fix.Then I had to go out with the jeep and hit 4 properties I skipped to take him the truck. If you like your husband get him some help. Be it a sub or hire an employee. Either way will help and a back up or second truck is needed. If you have any questions just ask.


----------



## Bajak

ScottPA;902065 said:


> Bah, you screwed it up!


:laughing::laughing:


2COR517;902060 said:


> ...because she forgot....


...where she put...


----------



## snowplowchick

She is probably out in the truck plowing (or shoveling).


----------



## Grn Mtn

woo hoo I just read all the postswesport

okay, yes you can get them done with one truck.
should you have some help, it can't hurt.
good communication is key with customers, Michelle *answer the phone* and keep people informed.
at this point don't worry about video's, experience will teach you, and after the first night you will have plenty.
it is very hard to please everybody and make money, some people just expect the drives to look like blacktop and have it done for free, its these people you will find out quickly and not signing them up for next year is a good idea, in fact, just give them their money - all of it - and say _sorry but it seems my company does not meet your requirements, enjoy your complimentary plow!_
i had driveways that took me 2 minutes to plow and i was 30 seconds to the next one, and i also had drives that took me 10 minutes (circle drive on a busy road) so i'm guessing your route is 6-8 hours starting at midnight plowing 2" of powder. double that time if daytime and or wet snow. Ice will kill that time.
have a very detailed contract that spells out the little things, ie garbage cans, snow drifts, town plow crap, moving of vehicles, time frame from end of storm max ...
get customers open at first, it don't have to look pretty, plowing clean comes with practice.
*document everything*: time date temp snowfall amount current conditions salt applied not applied.

not to scare you, but I had a friend that put 60+ drives on each of his trucks, all of which were old and beat up, his employees lacked motivation and were paid by the hour (which is the legal way but the slower you go the more money you make mentality sets in) I think you can guess where this ended up. his employees would take 10+ hours and only have 30-40 done, i would take about 5 1/2 hours but that was not knowing where anything was (i helped once after my stuff was done ) and he could do it in 4. he kept 80% of the customers on his route but lost all of the ones his employees did. they all sued him in small claims court, but his contract stated he had 24hours after the storm to finish plowing so he won most of the claims.

in short, be honest with people, cover your a**, have a backup to your backup, and pray for 9-midnight snows


----------



## Lil STX Ford

whats the avg snowfall for Addison? this would determine more if can be done or not, some place go into panic after a 3" snowfall,



> Precipitation: The Snowiest But Not the Wettest
> Generally across the province, as the winter snowfall increases from place to place, the total precipitation for the year decreases. Cold winter temperatures and stormy northeasterlies combine to make New Brunswick the snowiest of the three Mar time provinces. Northwestern New Brunswick generally receives between 300 and 400 cm of snow annually,


400cm = 157.4" (13feet)

^^^ then I'd worry


----------



## elite1msmith

Lil STX Ford;902206 said:


> whats the avg snowfall for Addison? this would determine more if can be done or not, some place go into panic after a 3" snowfall,
> 
> 400cm = 157.4" (13feet)
> 
> ^^^ then I'd worry


Thats true, the customers experctations come into play alot. some people dont mind waiting, and a phone call to them can calm alot of nerves. Most of mine are the opposite, they are willing to pay the green stuff, work work done on time, and an excuse of why it isnt done, doesnt cut it.


----------



## JD Dave

2COR517;902060 said:


> ...because she forgot....


that she's a dirty pirate hooker.


----------



## MichelleinMich

I would say there were probably 10-15 we didn't get, and 22 are current lawn customers who wanted to use us year round. So I guess that means 40 new customers out of 55 leads approx??


----------



## MichelleinMich

JD Dave;902019 said:


> Post #9 Mark answered the OP question. Plus the OP hasn't been on since she started the thread.


Did I mention I also have a 1 and 3 year old? I wish I could get on here more as it's such a great site but my life is crazy busy running the biz and being a mom. I'm reading all the posts now, to which I am grateful for every one.


----------



## MichelleinMich

snowplowchick;902150 said:


> She is probably out in the truck plowing (or shoveling).


Frickin hilarious.


----------



## Triple L

JD Dave;902351 said:


> that she's a dirty pirate hooker.


but had enuff...


----------



## MichelleinMich

Grn Mtn;902196 said:


> woo hoo I just read all the postswesport
> 
> okay, yes you can get them done with one truck.
> should you have some help, it can't hurt.
> good communication is key with customers, Michelle *answer the phone* and keep people informed.
> at this point don't worry about video's, experience will teach you, and after the first night you will have plenty.
> it is very hard to please everybody and make money, some people just expect the drives to look like blacktop and have it done for free, its these people you will find out quickly and not signing them up for next year is a good idea, in fact, just give them their money - all of it - and say _sorry but it seems my company does not meet your requirements, enjoy your complimentary plow!_
> i had driveways that took me 2 minutes to plow and i was 30 seconds to the next one, and i also had drives that took me 10 minutes (circle drive on a busy road) so i'm guessing your route is 6-8 hours starting at midnight plowing 2" of powder. double that time if daytime and or wet snow. Ice will kill that time.
> have a very detailed contract that spells out the little things, ie garbage cans, snow drifts, town plow crap, moving of vehicles, time frame from end of storm max ...
> get customers open at first, it don't have to look pretty, plowing clean comes with practice.
> *document everything*: time date temp snowfall amount current conditions salt applied not applied.
> 
> not to scare you, but I had a friend that put 60+ drives on each of his trucks, all of which were old and beat up, his employees lacked motivation and were paid by the hour (which is the legal way but the slower you go the more money you make mentality sets in) I think you can guess where this ended up. his employees would take 10+ hours and only have 30-40 done, i would take about 5 1/2 hours but that was not knowing where anything was (i helped once after my stuff was done ) and he could do it in 4. he kept 80% of the customers on his route but lost all of the ones his employees did. they all sued him in small claims court, but his contract stated he had 24hours after the storm to finish plowing so he won most of the claims.
> 
> in short, be honest with people, cover your a**, have a backup to your backup, and pray for 9-midnight snows


OK yea that freaked me out buy it made me think.


----------



## MichelleinMich

JD Dave;902351 said:


> that she's a dirty pirate hooker.


Wow...you're the only one who got it right


----------



## MichelleinMich

buckwheat_la;900395 said:


> AND any of this helps the HOW? RIGHT NOW!!!, i think we can all agree they overstepped their means, but i tell you what, if someone started a lecture at me when i was in the middle of a crisis, i would have a fit, jmo


You couldn't have said it any better.


----------



## MichelleinMich

Junior MO;900542 said:


> Anything is possible, however you have to make sure you are set up to handle the 'worst case' scenario. A good storm with a minor malfunction will set you back; I would prepare yourself for that by lining out subs or having a backup truck/plow.
> 
> Another thing is contact with customers. During weather events they really like being contacted before they discover the problems themselves. We set up our customers on a e-mail list and we send out numerous messages before, during, and after storms. Customers are also a lot easier to deal with if you initiate first contact if something happens. They also like to be kept in the loop mainly because they want to know that they will be taken care of.
> 
> If you cannot e-mail then maybe think about setting up a call list so while your husband is out plowing you can contact people at the office. This may take some time, but if you have angry customers calling you will have to take the time deal with that anyway.
> 
> I hope this helps. Hang in there; the first couple of seasons are always the rockiest.


Great advice. I wish more of my customers used email as obviously that's the easiest. I'll try and keep that contact going like you mentioned though. THanks.


----------



## MichelleinMich

mycirus;898416 said:


> Get a second truck and get out and help him. Divide the route in half and you have a perfect number.


Thanks. We actually have two trucks....one that we use for summer (just an F-150) and the new one we put the plow on. Someone gave some good advice that in a worst case scenario we can always send out a couple of guys with some shovels...which we could use the F-150 for.


----------



## JD Dave

MichelleinMich;902503 said:


> Wow...you're the only one who got it right


You know I was only joking.  Glad you got most of the work done. If you have any pics of you beside the plow truck please feel free to post them. Also I think you should have 1 more kid because you have to much free time.


----------



## MichelleinMich

Wow I am so excited to have so much support on this site. My husband did OK and his first plow! He got to about 54 of the 62, working from 3:00 am. to 5:00 p.m. the next evening. We realize we need to hire a 3rd guy for the group and he'll be able to go quicker. And you guys are all right....after just one day he felt he learned so much and was able to clean up those lines a ton, but still realizes he has a lot to learn. We pride ourselves on attention to detail and I was really nervous to receive a bunch of angry customers noticing he is new to plowing but I only received 2 calls and they were both to compliment the good work!! (sigh of relief.)

So thank you everyone who responded and for your encouraging words. To I will be sure to make maintenance on the truck a high priority as someone mentioned. Also, to "Grandview", thanks for the advice on letting him be. Lucky for me he comes home smiling even after a long day because we're just grateful to be working for ourselves, as difficult as it can sometimes be.


----------



## 2COR517

Glad to hear it worked for you for the most part. It's quite an initiation, but you survived. Hopefully you have some time to get things ready for the next storm. You might consider locating a plow for the F-150. It could pick up some overflow, and be your backup.

Let us know if you have any questions, we are all happy to help.


----------



## JohnnyRoyale

JD Dave;902521 said:


> You know I was only joking.  QUOTE]
> 
> You didnt think she was coming back eh Dave? Burn.


----------



## snocrete

JohnnyRoyale;902547 said:


> JD Dave;902521 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know I was only joking.  QUOTE]
> 
> You didnt think she was coming back eh Dave? Burn.
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking the same thing...JD Dave = .......good thing she knows how to take a joke...she will do just fine here.
> 
> BTW Michelle, glad to hear everything went good.....there is tons of good info here, sometimes you just have to "Search" for it.
Click to expand...


----------



## Grn Mtn

JohnnyRoyale;902547 said:


> You didnt think she was coming back eh Dave? Burn.


Hahahaha, hit the head of the nail on that one



MichelleinMich;902522 said:


> ... We realize we need to hire a 3rd guy for the group and he'll be able to go quicker.....


 wait you have someone helping your husband? where did you mention that, I thought I read everything?...


MichelleinMich;902501 said:


> OK yea that freaked me out buy it made me think.


 well the company I work for now has all new or almost new equipment and everytime I come back to the shop, something is being fixed: busted hydraulic hose, blown salter motor, rubber cutting edge replaced....

take the f150 and put a small plow with some prowings on it give it the smaller of the two commercials and 20 drives.

well done, glad to see you reply, btw i have 4 kids that i watch which is why my business is on hold till they get older, but since plowing is mostly at night I still do that but for someone else.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Matson Snow;899028 said:


> Last thing these people need right now is a lecture from a Wayne Voltz wanna be right now...They dont need marketing advice at this time..They need useful answers as how to handle these accounts....


:laughing::laughing:



buckwheat_la;899854 said:


> i am going to call your bluff's, i don't think what they are doing is impossible, just really really hard, sure they over booked themselves, and have their work cut out for themselves, but i bet if they are hard working enough they are going to come out of this ok. and they are going to learn some things along the way. BUT i well let you negative comment people in on something, these people have obviously worked hard to build up 60+ contracts and if they have strong enough wills they well get it done. I don't really care what everyone else has to say, i hope you prove everyone else wrong, Work hard and GOOD LUCK!


Nice to see some optimism.

Especially since we really didn't have squat for details. But understandable based on 2 youngsters and the first snowfall.



2COR517;900428 said:


> This thread could go down as a top ten "One Post Wonder"
> 
> 62 replies, guys yelling at each other, others justifying their screen name, and the OP is nowhere to be found.
> 
> They are probably sleeping it off. What did they get for snow?


lol



Brant'sLawnCare;900604 said:


> He will be out for a long time. I am talking probably a full week for a really big storm. I would hope to have 3 trucks at least if I had that much work. I have around 40 accounts, and that's plenty for 2 trucks to do. We were out for a long time the last few days clearing everything up.


Are you nuts?

What if the drives are next to each other, or within a 3 mile radius, 75 ft long by 16 wide?

3 trucks is insane.



JD Dave;902016 said:


> How do you know what types of driveways they are? I know a company that has 6 trucks and he sent a new guy out to do 50 drives his first time out and he got them done in a reasonable time. We don't know enough facts to say for sure if he can do it. I will agree having one sub would be good idea, having 2 subs is a joke for 60 driveways unless they are country drive and 10 minutes apart. JMO


/\/\/\

What he said.

Michelle, now that the hating is out of the way and we know you're a dirty pirate hooker in addition to a busy mom and loving wife, how about some more details so those of us who want to help and think it is possible so we can help you?

Nice to see the thick skin as well, you'll do just fine here.

PS, ignore JD Dave when he posts like that, good chance he's been into the liquor. :laughing:


----------



## martyman

grandview;896909 said:


> You better make some snow plow friends fast! One truck all season ,yes it can be done but even a flat tire can set you way back. I think you should of capped yourself at 25-30 driveways this year.I think maybe you should find a backup truck just in case ,it don't need to be pretty just be able to plow just in case.
> 
> Since your in charge of the office part ,make sure all calls go to you only ,don't have any go to him it will cost plowing time if he starts talking to people. never promise anyone anything ,just do the best you can.
> 
> Also,personally ,do not go off on him if he's in a *****y mood ,just leave him be for awhile.


I agree...you should have taken 20 to 30 to start unless they are all in a very small distance to each other.


----------



## jomama45

Mark Oomkes;902626 said:


> Michelle, now that the hating is out of the way and we know you're a dirty pirate hooker in addition to a busy mom and loving wife, how about some more details so those of us who want to help and think it is possible so we can help you?
> 
> Nice to see the thick skin as well, you'll do just fine here.
> 
> *PS, ignore JD Dave when he posts like that, good chance he's been into the liquor.*


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Sure Mark, you come out of the woodwork AFTER she comes back & says they had success! :waving:


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## FordFisherman

Hey Michelle- Welcome aboard. Was wondering how it would all shake out for you guys. Looks like you'll be just fine. Good luck


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## lawnproslawncar

Maybe jd dave was plowing like a mad man instead of into the liqour! Ha Ha

I guess I'm talking about myself though


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## buckwheat_la

i am glad everything has worked out, I well also point out it was me who said worst case scenario get a couple guys with shovels. i hope you take on a sub now, and i am glad you learned a lot this time around. JD is actually a really good guy, has always been very helpful, it is that MARK guy you need to watch out for, lol, all the people on here are good sh!ts, have a good event.


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## atgreene

Michelleinmich, good for you. Glad you are working it out. You can do it, it will be difficult, but it can be done. Everyones situation is different and you will adapt to meet whatever crissis presents itself.

Good luck, From what I've seen thus far I'd say you're smart enough to manage without my two cents.


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## michiganblizz

*awesome job*

glad to hear you finished, hope all goes well this season and you have one heck of a christmas this year for working your butt off so much.


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## lawnproslawncar

Just a suggestion worth trying: take the shoes off once the gravel drives get a good pack. It will help considerably of the paved lots and drives.


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## theonlybull

MichelleinMich;902493 said:


> Did I mention I also have a 1 and 3 year old? I wish I could get on here more as it's such a great site but my life is crazy busy running the biz and being a mom. I'm reading all the posts now, to which I am grateful for every one.


ok. after dealing with that.. you might like to take a day off and do 60+ drives on your own. i'm sure it would be less work then managing 2 toddlers, and running the office. my hat's off to you ( i have a 3yo, and a 6yo that's about like a 4yo. luckly, i have a wonderfull wife who's home raising them)

glad to see you made out ok.

if you've got a few smaller drives in not too big of a spread, how about 2 guys in the f-150 with a couple single stage blowers and shovels?

is the 150 a 4x4? what year? that would give more info on what it could handle for a plow


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## ERICS LAWN CARE

last year we only had two plow trucks on the road and one addt truck that didnt have a plow and was used to carry a snow blower or 3 to do residentials and commercial properities sidewalks (when they had long ones) and we also carried a 4 wheeler with a salt spreader & plow on it in that truck; anyhow; we got stressed one day when one of the trucks alternator went out (one of the plow trucks) and our mechanic was plowing one of the other trucks so he had to drop what he was doing and managed to change the alternator in about 20 minutes including buying it; so you see 20 min down time can cause stress--imagine a bigger problem with a longer down time. He needs to measure his route time from start to finish and consider the normal average amt of snow fall when you do that; and decide if that 6 hrs or what ever amt of time you come up with; think about if the storm ended at 6am; would you get done in a reasonable time; maybe commercial ones first; can those commercial accts get opened up before they open for business? if the storm ends at midnight you might be ok but what if it is 6am or 7am and it ends?


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## JD Dave

JohnnyRoyale;902547 said:


> JD Dave;902521 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know I was only joking.  QUOTE]
> 
> You didnt think she was coming back eh Dave? Burn.
> 
> 
> 
> In all honesty I didn't. I kind of felt bad, but she was a good sport. Nice to have a wife that concerned enough about the business to come on here and ask for advice. I'm just waiting for a knock at the door from her husband.
Click to expand...


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## elite1msmith

hey michelle glad to hear you finished. Everyones advice is good, and take it all with a grain of salt, what works for us doesnt mean it will for you.

If you havent already, try to figure out which customers need to get out first. 5pm the next day, thats a pretty long plow route, even if you show up for every storm, when next years renewal comes up, they might reconsider. Also i have heard alot of people try to rotate the starting points on there routes...sometime this can be done, sometimes it cant. and for employees it can throw a wrench in the system. but by not always having a certain person last...it can help


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## MichelleinMich

OK so you get it that it's a handful then! Thanks. The F150 is a 2008 and yes it's a 4X4. We stupidly leased it so we definitely aren't putting a plow on it but I think you have a good idea about having 2 guys with a couple shovels and a snow thrower.


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## MichelleinMich

That's great advice since neither of us really know anything about shoes and I have no idea what a pack is. ??


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## Milwaukee

MichelleinMich;905305 said:


> That's great advice since neither of us really know anything about shoes and I have no idea what a pack is. ??


pack could be snow turn to hard pack like you left snow on your driveway and you drive vehicle on it then it turn hard then you couldn't scrap that pack with shovel.

shoe for plow? They are for gravel but some people use shoe to get more life out edge on plow.


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## MattR

Hi Michelle, What LawnsPro was talking about is some people use plow shoes to help keep the plow from digging too much on a gravel driveway. Gravel driveways are different than a blacktop drive. Blacktop=plow and do not worry about it. Gravel = you wondering about how much gravel will end up in the lawn. The shoes will not totally eliminate the gravel problem, yet will reduce it. Also by having the shoes on, it raises the blade a hair and allows some snow to be left there and eventually getting packed down to have a solid plowing base. So "pack" is basically just packed down snow. Hope that helps you out. 


Matt


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## MichelleinMich

Mark Oomkes;902626 said:


> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> Nice to see some optimism.
> 
> Especially since we really didn't have squat for details. But understandable based on 2 youngsters and the first snowfall.
> 
> lol
> 
> Are you nuts?
> 
> What if the drives are next to each other, or within a 3 mile radius, 75 ft long by 16 wide?
> 
> 3 trucks is insane.
> 
> /\/\/\
> 
> What he said.
> 
> Michelle, now that the hating is out of the way and we know you're a dirty pirate hooker in addition to a busy mom and loving wife, how about some more details so those of us who want to help and think it is possible so we can help you?
> 
> Nice to see the thick skin as well, you'll do just fine here.
> 
> PS, ignore JD Dave when he posts like that, good chance he's been into the liquor. :laughing:


You guys all crack me up. I like being here.

Anyway, yes GRN MTN you are right....I think I didn't mention that he's using his lawn guy to help him with the snow. We thought he could shovel/use the snow thrower while my husband plows but he said at every stop he still had to get out of the truck and shovel as well, which is why a 3rd guy will make a difference.

We aren't expecting snow this week really other than a little freezing rain so we can throw some salt down at our (only 2) commercial properties (doctors offices). My point is....we'll use this week to come up with a good 2nd route that we can give to a 2nd group that could take out the F-150 and use shovels/snow thrower. I think I mentioned it's a lease (SUCKS) so we're not putting a plow on it....besides I couldn't afford to buy another plow anyway.

I'm so glad you all opened my eyes to the scenarios that could take place and that our first storm was only 2 inches so we could just get our feet wet and learn what we need to change.

By the way, I keep feeding my husband the daily comments going on. I wish he could jump on here but we speak Spanish at our home and reading/writing English isn't the easiest for him. He thinks you are all hysterical...except for JD DAVE. When I told him he called me "una puta" he didn't find it as hilarious as I did.

(Don't sweat it dave...I still think it was funny.)


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## buckwheat_la

definetly a good idea, and make sure you always send a third shovel too (one always gets broken) shovelling may not be as fast as plowing but you well find that a blower and a couple of shovelers are going to do quite a few places and eventually you can look forward to another plow, extra blowers, etc. Have you looked into breaking your lease? just a suggestion, but if you are going to pay for a vehicle, you should at least be able to put a plow on it. But that being said, a couple of guys in a truck with shovels well keep you going this year, see how things shape up, and good luck


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## buckwheat_la

:angry:JD Dave, there is a spanish gentleman that would like to have a word with you!!!:realmad:


:laughing:


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## 2COR517

MichelleinMich;905330 said:


> You guys all crack me up. I like being here.
> ..........
> 
> By the way, I keep feeding my husband the daily comments going on. I wish he could jump on here but we speak Spanish at our home and reading/writing English isn't the easiest for him. He thinks you are all hysterical...except for JD DAVE. When I told him he called me "una puta" he didn't find it as hilarious as I did.
> 
> (Don't sweat it dave...I still think it was funny.)


You'll fit in just fine here.

Dave talks to all us ladies that way....:laughing:

Don't get too wound up - I can see you're not - yet, this business is supposed to be fun too. Sounds like you're building a good plan there. You'll be fine.


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## JohnnyRoyale

MichelleinMich;905330 said:


> ...except for JD DAVE. When I told him he called me "una puta" he didn't find it as hilarious as I did.
> 
> (Don't sweat it dave...I still think it was funny.)





buckwheat_la;905382 said:


> JD Dave, there is a spanish gentleman that would like to have a word with you!!!





2COR517;905472 said:


> Dave talks to all us ladies that way....


:laughing:HAHA ROTFLMAO :laughing:


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## ontario026

Can you not plow with a leased truck in the US?? I'm pretty sure you can put plows on leased vehicles here in canada?

Matthew


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## Max Wedge

Your lease agreement should tell if you can or can't. It may say that you can't use the vehicle for business use-but if it for your own driveway......

You will also have to remove the plow when the lease is up.


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## Mark Oomkes

JohnnyRoyale;905512 said:


> :laughing:HAHA ROTFLMAO :laughing:


X2 :laughing::laughing:


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## PowersTree

If your looking for a sub, I know of a guy looking for work out near you guys. Shoot me a pm and I will forward his number.

I grew up in Oxford, and am now located in waterford.


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## lawnproslawncar

I guess once you get a good base over the gravel drives I would ditch the shoes. I would definitely keep them off on any pavement surface unless you love to put lots of ice melt/salt down. Just my two cents though


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## Brant'sLawnCare

JD Dave;902016 said:


> How do you know what types of driveways they are? I know a company that has 6 trucks and he sent a new guy out to do 50 drives his first time out and he got them done in a reasonable time. We don't know enough facts to say for sure if he can do it. I will agree having one sub would be good idea, having 2 subs is a joke for 60 driveways unless they are country drive and 10 minutes apart. JMO


I agree. I was just applying what she is asking about to my situation. We do the drives and sidewalks at about 30 of those places. I am still trying to figure out the most effecient way to do things. But this slows you down doing drives and walkways, especially during big storms.


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## 2brothersyc

well why not buy a older truck and have of em plowing?


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## JD Dave

So Michelle does your husband know you talk to strange men on the internet?


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## grandview

JD Dave;906373 said:


> So Michelle does your husband know you talk to strange men on the internet?


And none are stranger then you JD!


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## Mark Oomkes

JD Dave;906373 said:


> So Michelle does your husband know you talk to strange men on the internet?


You're the only strange one on this thread.


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## pro50guy

lol good stuff, good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Grn Mtn

I plowed for 5 years with my ram 2500 lease, no probs turning it back in. I removed everything, was under the mileage (after 18k my first year I cut my routes to stay close to home knocking it down to 7-10k after that).

your lease might be different, also being that it is a 1/2 ton and mine was a 3/4 ton.


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## MichelleinMich

thanks for explaining


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## MichelleinMich

Mark Oomkes;906486 said:


> You're the only strange one on this thread.


Haha yes he does.....he digs it


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## MichelleinMich

2brothersyc;906195 said:


> well why not buy a older truck and have of em plowing?


ummmmmm......what? "have of em plowing"??


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## MichelleinMich

buckwheat_la;905382 said:


> :angry:JD Dave, there is a spanish gentleman that would like to have a word with you!!!:realmad:
> 
> :laughing:


buckwheat you're hilarious.

And yes, we looked into breaking the lease....it was insulting. I'll never lease again.


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## MichelleinMich

ontario026;905518 said:


> Can you not plow with a leased truck in the US?? I'm pretty sure you can put plows on leased vehicles here in canada?
> 
> Matthew


I didn't even check I just figured it would be expensive to have a plow installed on something that's not mine to keep, right?


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## 2COR517

MichelleinMich;917049 said:


> I didn't even check I just figured it would be expensive to have a plow installed on something that's not mine to keep, right?


Installation is the cheap part. Couple hundred bucks. Less than that for removal when you turn the truck in.


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## MichelleinMich

2COR517;917066 said:


> Installation is the cheap part. Couple hundred bucks. Less than that for removal when you turn the truck in.


Wow that's so surprising. The Dodge we have came with the plow installed right from the dealer so I never knew how much installation was. A friend recently offered to give us a small used 6' plow. I wasn't even going to take him up on it but maybe I should now.


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## 2COR517

MichelleinMich;917116 said:


> Wow that's so surprising. The Dodge we have came with the plow installed right from the dealer so I never knew how much installation was. A friend recently offered to give us a small used 6' plow. I wasn't even going to take him up on it but maybe I should now.


That plow is way to small for a full size truck. Don't even consider it. You really need at least a 7 1/2. 8 footer would be better. Do you have a Sno-Way dealer in your area?


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## Big Daddy

MichelleinMichigan,
Good to have another fellow-wife!! I am using my hubby's signon... but, I too run the office things..like you and do the marketing! Good to have another fellow lady to relate to! Good luck to you both. We have been plowing for 5 seasons. Like you, we have been doing the lawncare service and added the plow/salting service. Our first year was very successful, but a huge learning experience. Every year is something different. We have had it all happen to us... The truck broke down, the salter broke down (MANY TIMES)... We had brand-new everything the first season out and despite routine maintenance and new equipment, we have had our share of snafus. We bought a second truck/plow to add to our business this year. It is an older model truck, clean, but runs well. We have subbed out for help in the past... My husband has a relative w/a jeep and plow that has been invaluable. We also have become friendly with another local lawn care business who has been available to take on added plowing if needed. It does pay to network. 

I think the best thing you can do, is what you are doing! Be supportive and doing the part you are good at. We each have our own unique talents. You are using yours to help your husband be successful. In the end, that is the best thing we can do... help our husbands succeed and do what makes them happy. The one thing I can add to this entire thread is... You obtained 62 accounts... Don't forget, that those 62 accounts are not just "Plow" customers.. They can be potential lawn care accounts, or mulch accounts, or spring cleanups, etc... That is your best marketing tool! Cross market them! You snagged them, so, keep them!! Creativing client loyalty is half the battle in business and a good loyal following will serve you well in seasons to come by referrals and add-on business. Do not forget that! I strive to not lose a single client we obtain. We do not waste excessive energy, but we do strive to keep each and every one as they are invaluable to us and are the basis for us to make a living doing what we do. At least that is my perspective... Not that it is the right way, but it has served us well. We are still small, but we like it that way. And nothing like being able to do things the way we want to! Good luck to you both and congratulations!
Paulina


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## MichelleinMich

Big Daddy;919908 said:


> MichelleinMichigan,
> Good to have another fellow-wife!! I am using my hubby's signon... but, I too run the office things..like you and do the marketing! Good to have another fellow lady to relate to! Good luck to you both. We have been plowing for 5 seasons. Like you, we have been doing the lawncare service and added the plow/salting service. Our first year was very successful, but a huge learning experience. Every year is something different. We have had it all happen to us... The truck broke down, the salter broke down (MANY TIMES)... We had brand-new everything the first season out and despite routine maintenance and new equipment, we have had our share of snafus. We bought a second truck/plow to add to our business this year. It is an older model truck, clean, but runs well. We have subbed out for help in the past... My husband has a relative w/a jeep and plow that has been invaluable. We also have become friendly with another local lawn care business who has been available to take on added plowing if needed. It does pay to network.
> 
> I think the best thing you can do, is what you are doing! Be supportive and doing the part you are good at. We each have our own unique talents. You are using yours to help your husband be successful. In the end, that is the best thing we can do... help our husbands succeed and do what makes them happy. The one thing I can add to this entire thread is... You obtained 62 accounts... Don't forget, that those 62 accounts are not just "Plow" customers.. They can be potential lawn care accounts, or mulch accounts, or spring cleanups, etc... That is your best marketing tool! Cross market them! You snagged them, so, keep them!! Creativing client loyalty is half the battle in business and a good loyal following will serve you well in seasons to come by referrals and add-on business. Do not forget that! I strive to not lose a single client we obtain. We do not waste excessive energy, but we do strive to keep each and every one as they are invaluable to us and are the basis for us to make a living doing what we do. At least that is my perspective... Not that it is the right way, but it has served us well. We are still small, but we like it that way. And nothing like being able to do things the way we want to! Good luck to you both and congratulations!
> Paulina


Thanks Paulina! It's snowing right now....this will be only his 3rd time out and already our brand new salt spreader broke. ugh.

I appreciate your comments!


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## EGLC

throw a plow on that f150....just remove *everything* before you bring it back in and don't mention it lol


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## unit28

if you only have one shoveler,
unbundle him and put some running shoes on him.

I've kept up with a driver who plowed like a madman during 6" snow falls.


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## grandview

What's the update on all these driveways? Still have them all?


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## wj4play

OLD POST ALERT ... BUT
curious of the turn out of this post. I think it could be done with 2 trucks or at least one truck and 2 drivers. One year I had about 30 town homes, private street, 4 parking lots and about 15 residential homes. That killed me and we had a light year. 

Would love to hear a update if you still in the business


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## MichelleinMich

*Yes we are still in business......*

Hey there WJ4Play,

We did survive last winter but it sucked big time. Every time my husband plowed it was for about 20 hours straight. He used just one truck the whole time, with just himself and 1 or 2 guys. The money was awesome but it was exhausting both to my husband for obvious reasons as well as for myself dealing with all the customers' calls asking when we would be there. This year we are limiting our route to about 40. We are at 35 right now and the last 5 spots we are only allowing people directly close to existing customers. We definitely prefer grass and mulch to snowplowing...that's for sure!

- michelle


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## KBTConst

Glad to heat you made it through last winter this yr will be alot easier on you and your hubby now that you know what to expect! good luck this yr.


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## Dog3

Keeping your accounts in close proximity to one another is a wise move. Travel time is a killer. Good luck this winter!


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## swtiih

glad to here you made it through the winter and are back


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## wj4play

MichelleinMich;1136042 said:


> Hey there WJ4Play,
> 
> We did survive last winter but it sucked big time. Every time my husband plowed it was for about 20 hours straight. He used just one truck the whole time, with just himself and 1 or 2 guys. The money was awesome but it was exhausting both to my husband for obvious reasons as well as for myself dealing with all the customers' calls asking when we would be there. This year we are limiting our route to about 40. We are at 35 right now and the last 5 spots we are only allowing people directly close to existing customers. We definitely prefer grass and mulch to snowplowing...that's for sure!
> 
> - michelle


Hey Glad to hear you made it and didnt give up, hopefully things are much easier this winter. Its nice when you can find that sweetspot with how many customers. Th esecond year I started plowing i had 30 townhomes, street and several parking lots. That was on top of my day job... So i know how you were feeling lol

-J


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## buckwheat_la

Congrats on surviving last year, sounds like you are learning lots, sometimes experience is the best teacher. you guys well be successful i am sure.


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## cbelawn

ok , i just had to comment,
5 years plowing, 60 driveways, tight route, 5 hours from start to finish with 15" snow. never a complaint. Its can be done. I think one of the things missing is how big the driveways are. all mine are 2 cars wide and 2 cars deep and not one more than a 1/4" mile out of my way. I used to do a church but i spent more time on that lot and made less per hour.


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## ctbman

Even at 15 min per account thats 15.5 hours without drive time.Thats alot for one truck,and you wont be able to get them done in a timely manner.This business is all about keeping your customers happy,If you dont someone else will. Good luck


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## MichelleinMich

*Hey guys....me again a year later...freaking out again!*

I'm just posting to this previous thread in hopes it will go out to all those awesome guys that helped me last year. So we are in Michigan and expecting 10-15" of snow. My husband and I are debating when to go out.

Here's the question (I know I am right but I need him to hear this from you guys). Do we wait until the end of the storm to plow or plow once in the middle and once at the end?

I say plow twice not just because of keeping customers happy but more so in fear that our plow will break down doing so much at once.

Can you guys talk some sense into him for me? THANKS!!


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## GMCHD plower

MichelleinMich;1224810 said:


> I'm just posting to this previous thread in hopes it will go out to all those awesome guys that helped me last year. So we are in Michigan and expecting 10-15" of snow. My husband and I are debating when to go out.
> 
> Here's the question (I know I am right but I need him to hear this from you guys). Do we wait until the end of the storm to plow or plow once in the middle and once at the end?
> 
> I say plow twice not just because of keeping customers happy but more so in fear that our plow will break down doing so much at once.
> 
> Can you guys talk some sense into him for me? THANKS!!


Definately will want to go out twice, I havent had a chance to read the whole thread so I'm not sure how your pricing is, but plowing upwards of 15" is like you said, to hard on equipment. It may seem fun sometimes seeing how much you can push in a pass, but the wear and tare it causes isn't worth it.

-David


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## hedhunter9

We are south of you down here in northern Indiana. Get a lot of lake effect snow off of Lake Michigan.
For the blizzard warnings they have out for tonight 14-20 inches predicted with high winds causing lots of drifts, we will plow tonight at 10pm and work thru the night. Probably hit most accounts twice before morning. Hitting 2 foot drifts is too much. Better to plow with the storm.
Easier on equipment 

Bob


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## 350-CHEVY

plowing a big fall like that is only fun for the first couple driveways. after you prove to yourelf that you and your truck can move that much snow in one shot. after that its just stressfull to you and your truck. i would plow everything twice.


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## Freebird

MichelleinMich;1224810 said:


> I'm just posting to this previous thread in hopes it will go out to all those awesome guys that helped me last year. So we are in Michigan and expecting 10-15" of snow. My husband and I are debating when to go out.
> 
> Here's the question (I know I am right but I need him to hear this from you guys). Do we wait until the end of the storm to plow or plow once in the middle and once at the end?
> 
> I say plow twice not just because of keeping customers happy but more so in fear that our plow will break down doing so much at once.
> 
> Can you guys talk some sense into him for me? THANKS!!


Go out after the first 3 inches. At that point the drives you hit first won't have the heaviest yet, but by the time you hit the end of the route those drives are going to be heavy If you wait until the earlier drives get heavier then by the time you hit the end of the route you will be pushing too much weight. The damage is not worth the risk. If the client does not understand why your husband needs to plow twice with the storm, they are not the types of clients you want.

Make sure he has a thermos of coffee and some extra shovels/tow straps. In that real deep stuff its slow moving and lots of stuck cars. Also its always nice to help pull out a fellow plow guy who is stuck. :redbounce


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## Dewey

I plow 45 accounts in a very rural are.. Plus 3.5 miles of camp road and a smal post office and then 1/2 mile to my place with my about an acre of area for log trucks to get in and out.... 
On a bigger storm I go out at 6-8 inches and open people up and then when its done push back and clean up... It's alot of plowing but managable the big problem is if you breakdown... I'm lucky to have a plow buddy that will let me borrow his truck if I need it.... fortunatly it doesn't happen often


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## KBTConst

How has season 2 been for you?


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## Chineau

*Curious.*

How is it working out have you kept the majority of those 62 accounts, how many are with you year round snow/lawn? My wife has taken on the books for my operation it has been a huge help. Oh and this has been a very entertaining thread.tymusic


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## 32vld

JDiepstra;898400 said:


> That's nice but nobody was asking about that.


No body did ask about that. But many a times the answer not asked for is the best answer.

In this case new people without the intent to be low ballers undercharge due to their lack of experience.


----------

