# JD 244J with 10/16 Metal Pless



## timsjeep

Hello everyone, just wanted to post up some info and pictures of our new machine. We have three large schools that we plow up on the North end of town that have required a large portion of our company resources to complete. I decided to try out a wheel loader that can be driven down the road between the properties. After much research and reading on this site and many others, I started looking for a JD 224J. Found a very nice 2008 in my price range that was up in Denver. Pulled the trigger back in August. Turned out that we used the heck out of it just in our yard and even took it to a few landscape jobs. I had no idea that we would use it as much in the summer months as we have. Now I needed a plow for the machine. I was 95% set on a 10' Kage system when I stumbled onto the Metal Pless product. I was really not looking to spend that much on the plow, but after looking closely at the properties and the requirements that I had for the loader, Metal Pless was any easy decision.
First question I get is why I didn't get the live edge. I was really pushing the limits of my budget and we only have 10-15 really good snows here each season so I felt that the standard edge would be just fine. So far we have plowed 2 events with it and I am feeling like I made a good decision. This is without a doubt the best plow system we have ever seen. We have a Kage plow on our Bobcat A300 and its fantastic, but this Metal Pless is way better. Not even close!



































Here you can see it with the Kage plow. Kage looks so small.


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## BUFF

Nice looking set up..... And the MP was the better choice. Since we get so much sun and melt off due to it the live edge is more of a luxury rather then a necessity. 
Been a slow winter north of Denver too, suppose to have snow coming in mid week but we know how accurate the forecast are....:hammerhead:


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## SHAWZER

Nice , clean looking loader for an 08 . How many hours are on it ?


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## timsjeep

BUFF said:


> Nice looking set up..... And the MP was the better choice. Since we get so much sun and melt off due to it the live edge is more of a luxury rather then a necessity.
> Been a slow winter north of Denver too, suppose to have snow coming in mid week but we know how accurate the forecast are....:hammerhead:


We shale see....I love it when we get 2", just enough to get us out, but not enough to cause problems with equipment and guys. It looks like its going to be cold for sure. Good luck to you guys up north. I went to CSU and miss the Fort.


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## timsjeep

SHAWZER said:


> Nice , clean looking loader for an 08 . How many hours are on it ?


It had 4725 hrs on it when I got it. Was really clean and well taken care of. It came from a ranch in Texas and lived inside a barn. The paint and all the plastic and hoses are in fantastic shape. We keep it inside during the summer and it only sites outside during the winter months. This is its home for the winter, plugged in and ready to go.


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## timsjeep

Funny thing happened this last week. We liked having the loader around our yard so much, now that its gone for the winter, we needed a second loader for loading Ice Slicer. Picked up this older machine from a buddy. Cheap, but works great for loading. After this picture, 50 more tons showed up. looks better now.


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## Mark Oomkes

timsjeep said:


> We have a Kage plow on our Bobcat A300 and its fantastic, but this Metal Pless is way better. Not even close!


Congrats on the purchase.

Second, after running my 8-13 for a few hours a couple weeks ago, Kage is absolutely worthless. Sorry Kage, it just is. These things are so dang maneuverable getting into corners without backing up or back dragging, switching from plow to pusher immediately, they make straight plows and Kage and even Blizzards obsolete.

And with the scraping ability of the LiveEdge, I am not bothered that I can't get an 8611 for tractors anymore. Not sure about truck plows, but I wouldn't bother with a "normal" plow on a tractor ever again.


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> These things are so dang maneuverable getting into corners without backing up or back dragging, switching from plow to pusher immediately, they make straight plows and Kage and even Blizzards obsolete.
> 
> And with the scraping ability of the LiveEdge, I am not bothered that I can't get an 8611 for tractors anymore.


That's saying something...


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## BUFF

timsjeep said:


> We shale see....I love it when we get 2", just enough to get us out, but not enough to cause problems with equipment and guys. It looks like its going to be cold for sure. Good luck to you guys up north. I went to CSU and miss the Fort.


 I do like those little storms that come through, could use for more through but it is what it is...... The Fort was a pretty good place in the mid '80s then it evolved into Boulder over the years. My daughter was looking at CU in the Springs and I went down there to check oot what they had to offer. Nice campus but the big deterrent was C-Springs, don't take offense but it has grown into a huge city. I'm west of Berthoud which is a small town and she choose UW then transferred to CSU this year.


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## timsjeep

Mark Oomkes said:


> Congrats on the purchase.
> 
> Second, after running my 8-13 for a few hours a couple weeks ago, Kage is absolutely worthless. Sorry Kage, it just is. These things are so dang maneuverable getting into corners without backing up or back dragging, switching from plow to pusher immediately, they make straight plows and Kage and even Blizzards obsolete.
> 
> And with the scraping ability of the LiveEdge, I am not bothered that I can't get an 8611 for tractors anymore. Not sure about truck plows, but I wouldn't bother with a "normal" plow on a tractor ever again.


I would agree, this plow is a game changer for sure. We are considering one for next season on this older 244H. Maybe an 8-13 like you have.

We bought this Boss box for a smaller skid and no one in the company even whats to use it. ha ha


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## Masssnowfighter

The boss skid steer pushers scrape terrible! I sold mine after the first season of use


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## timsjeep

Masssnowfighter said:


> The boss skid steer pushers scrape terrible! I sold mine after the first season of use


I had read some really good reviews of this pusher. I still think its great for what I need it to do which is haul snow around a corner 180* and then stack it over a curb into a retention pond. I think it will do the job and for the price it appears to be a good deal. Have not had a chance to get it on site yet, that will happen on Tuesday the 3rd. I let you know what I think after we use it once.


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## redclifford

Masssnowfighter said:


> The boss skid steer pushers scrape terrible! I sold mine after the first season of use


X2


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## timsjeep

This is a lame clip we did after our first push with it. Very excited to get some real footage of the loader and plow. Hoping this week will give me a good chance to film and play with some editing.


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## BUFF

Didn't you post vids from a drone last year? That would be pretty cool to use for taking vid of the MP.


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## timsjeep

BUFF said:


> Didn't you post vids from a drone last year? That would be pretty cool to use for taking vid of the MP.


Yes, that was fun. I was too busy to do a second one. This season will be different. I will have time and i have a new drone that is incredible. I will be doing a very cool video on this Metal Pless for sure.


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## GLSS22

Great choice! We have been running the exact same setup for a couple years and couldn't be happier. Doesn't it feel like every other plow you own is terribly inefficient compared to the MP!


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## timsjeep

Knockah22 said:


> Great choice! We have been running the exact same setup for a couple years and couldn't be happier. Doesn't it feel like every other plow you own is terribly inefficient compared to the MP!


Totally. Sitting in a truck is like watching paint dry. Awful!


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## timsjeep

Knockah22 said:


> Great choice! We have been running the exact same setup for a couple years and couldn't be happier. Doesn't it feel like every other plow you own is terribly inefficient compared to the MP!


You are actually the one that I followed to see if this was a good fit. All your info and advice in other threads was a major factor for me. Thanks. Thats why I felt like I needed to post this up. I don't think there is enough info out there about this setup and how great it is. I would love to see some more pictures of your fleet of 244's. Post up if you anymore. Thanks again, Tim


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## BUFF

Tim did you get any snow last night? Had a heavy band drop 3" north of Longmont while in Longmont there's a 1/2">.


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## timsjeep

BUFF said:


> Tim did you get any snow last night? Had a heavy band drop 3" north of Longmont while in Longmont there's a 1/2">.


Just this morning around 7:30 it started. We have about an 1" but its icy. We are out putting down ice melt and ice slicer as I type this.


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## GLSS22

timsjeep said:


> You are actually the one that I followed to see if this was a good fit. All your info and advice in other threads was a major factor for me. Thanks. Thats why I felt like I needed to post this up. I don't think there is enough info out there about this setup and how great it is. I would love to see some more pictures of your fleet of 244's. Post up if you anymore. Thanks again, Tim


Thats Awesome! Glad I was able to help you out! I will be uploading some videos on youtube soon. Until then heres a couple fleet pics. Let it Snow!


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## Mark13

I knew you guys had loaders, but I didn't realize you had that many. Good looking fleet you have there! Are they all 244j's? Some appear to have a different rim/tire setup on them which makes them look bigger.


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## timsjeep

Knockah22 said:


> Thats Awesome! Glad I was able to help you out! I will be uploading some videos on youtube soon. Until then heres a couple fleet pics. Let it Snow!


Oh yes! I am in love with your fleet. I think that is my plan too. Load up of 244's. I just bought the older one that I posted a picture of and I am already figuring out a way to get it out to make money. Love them all lined up like that. Do you store them in your yard and road them to properties during each storm? Tim


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## GLSS22

timsjeep said:


> Oh yes! I am in love with your fleet. I think that is my plan too. Load up of 244's. I just bought the older one that I posted a picture of and I am already figuring out a way to get it out to make money. Love them all lined up like that. Do you store them in your yard and road them to properties during each storm? Tim


Most of our machines leave from our shop. I squeeze them all inside our shop. They travel to all of our properties, works well because I can wash and inspect them after every storm. They are great loaders, and our routes are condensed into a small area that allows us to keep them at our shop. Hope you enjoy your setup as much as we do!


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## GLSS22

Mark13 said:


> I knew you guys had loaders, but I didn't realize you had that many. Good looking fleet you have there! Are they all 244j's? Some appear to have a different rim/tire setup on them which makes them look bigger.


Thank You! All but one are 244js. The newest machine is a 244K series. Most of our fleet has the same tires, but one machine has the upgraded tires because it was dealer stock and its what it came with.


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## Mark13

How big of an area do you cover with the loaders or how far away is to far to drive it? I know they'll do roughly 20mph down the road. 

Do the factory tires on them do pretty good or would you pick something else if you could?


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## timsjeep

Mark13 said:


> How big of an area do you cover with the loaders or how far away is to far to drive it? I know they'll do roughly 20mph down the road.
> 
> Do the factory tires on them do pretty good or would you pick something else if you could?


Not going to answer for Knochah22, but we cover about 2.5 miles between our schools. So we plow one school, drive 2.5 miles, plow the second and then drive another 2.5 miles to the third. It takes about 8-10 mins. each leg. Then we have to drive it back to the first one which is now about 5 miles and it takes about 15 mins. or so. Really not too bad when you consider how productive it is when its on site. We do have some hills that really slow it down, but then we go down the hill on the reverse leg so it balances out. We figured we average about 15 MPH total. That said, we drove it from our shop to the school before the last snow and it took 60 mins even. That came out to almost 17 MPH. Really depends on the amount of up hill.


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## GLSS22

Mark13 said:


> How big of an area do you cover with the loaders or how far away is to far to drive it? I know they'll do roughly 20mph down the road.
> 
> Do the factory tires on them do pretty good or would you pick something else if you could?


Total distance isn't as much a factor as distance between individual properties. What I mean is, I don't mind traveling far, as long as there is enough accounts in that area to justify it. But almost all of our machines stay within 15 miles of the shop. Certain occasions when I know we have a large snow fall forecasted I will stage some machines closer to there routes. The benefits of having the machines indoors at our shop, like knowing they won't have any trouble starting, and security, heavily out weight the extra half hour to road the machine.

Also, I equip every machine with a light bar and SMV signs, as well as there factory installed turn signals and brake lights.

Factory tires last a awhile. We sold two 09 loaders(around 1000hrs) last season that still had tread left on them. If Deere offered a snow tire I would most likely go with them, but they don't. I would love to try a machine with snow tires to see the difference. We have snow wolf tires on our skid steer and they were an big improvement from stock. That being said, we only use our machines for snow.


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## Mark13

I follow with what you both are saying about travel distance, time etc. 
I'm a big fan of keeping things inside as well so I would have some road travel ahead of me as well from the shop just to get into town where the plowing would be.


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## timsjeep

So my Bobcat A300 with a 10' Kage plow went down this morning with some fuel issues. However, my three schools were closed because the temps were in the -8 range and -20 wind chill so I was able to pull my JD 244 down from the North end of town and help out at my HOA. This thing continues to amaze me. It can back drag an entire driveway with one pass! We have 79 driveways in this complex and we have to haul all the snow to the exterior roadways. Some locations are thousands of feet from where we can dump the snow. This rig handled the task with ease. I realize there was only 3- 4 inches of snow, but I'm not sure that it matters how much snow there is. Its a just an incredible tool. Cant say enough about it. Last week the bobcat did the property in a little over 2 hours. Today we did it in a little over an hour. Simply amazing. The second video really shows how the wings contour with the ground to scrap really clean. Live edge would be even better, but I am very pleased with this. Enjoy my crappy videos. Tim

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## BUFF

So when are you going to add another 244 to handle what the A300 was doing..... LOL
We ended up with about 12" in the Longmont/Niwot area yesterday, nice and fluffy.


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## timsjeep

BUFF said:


> So when are you going to add another 244 to handle what the A300 was doing..... LOL
> We ended up with about 12" in the Longmont/Niwot area yesterday, nice and fluffy.


Yup, going to be adding a 244 to the plow fleet. That thing works so good, hard to go back to a skid. Haha


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## Mark Oomkes

So this thread got me to thinking (and spending next year's money). 

The snow lease on my Bobcat S650 is up in November. I was thinking aboot replacing it with a 244. But, I have an 8-13 and a 10' LiveBoxx, both of which are underkill for a 244. 

I received a potential offer to trade oof my LiveBoxx and upgrade to a PlowMaxx. I was thinking of a 9-14 if I went with the 244, but maybe the 10-16 is doable. The route I would put it on, it would work great for a 244 and the S650 is a little undersized for, but it works. The 244 with a bigger plow would almost eliminate my need for a loader with a pusher to drive the better part of a half hour one way to help oot, except on really heavy accumulations. 

I can move the 8-13 to my T650 and it would make that machine that mulch more productive. 

Thanks for the thread and info on productivity of the 244.


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## timsjeep

Mark Oomkes said:


> So this thread got me to thinking (and spending next year's money).
> 
> The snow lease on my Bobcat S650 is up in November. I was thinking aboot replacing it with a 244. But, I have an 8-13 and a 10' LiveBoxx, both of which are underkill for a 244.
> 
> I received a potential offer to trade oof my LiveBoxx and upgrade to a PlowMaxx. I was thinking of a 9-14 if I went with the 244, but maybe the 10-16 is doable. The route I would put it on, it would work great for a 244 and the S650 is a little undersized for, but it works. The 244 with a bigger plow would almost eliminate my need for a loader with a pusher to drive the better part of a half hour one way to help oot, except on really heavy accumulations.
> 
> I can move the 8-13 to my T650 and it would make that machine that mulch more productive.
> 
> Thanks for the thread and info on productivity of the 244.


After having the 10-16 on the road now 3 events, I would say it is perfect. It fits down the road with ease. I have truck plows that seam more dangerous to have on the road. We did add some reflective tape to the plow just to make sure it sticks out. 9-14 would be great too, but I think you might as well max out your productivity and I would bet you can't really tell the difference driving down the road. 
I am for sure going to have a second one for next season.

I would love to have that 8-13 on my A300! I bet that would be a good fit. I do like the Kage system, however is somewhat of a joke compared to the MP. Do you have a picture of the 8-13 on your S650?


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> So this thread got me to thinking (and spending next year's money).
> 
> The snow lease on my Bobcat S650 is up in November. I was thinking aboot replacing it with a 244. But, I have an 8-13 and a 10' LiveBoxx, both of which are underkill for a 244.
> 
> I received a potential offer to trade oof my LiveBoxx and upgrade to a PlowMaxx. I was thinking of a 9-14 if I went with the 244, but maybe the 10-16 is doable. The route I would put it on, it would work great for a 244 and the S650 is a little undersized for, but it works. The 244 with a bigger plow would almost eliminate my need for a loader with a pusher to drive the better part of a half hour one way to help oot, except on really heavy accumulations.
> 
> I can move the 8-13 to my T650 and it would make that machine that mulch more productive.
> 
> Thanks for the thread and info on productivity of the 244.


Unless you're being restricted by physical size access you want the 10-16. Anything smaller and I don't think you'll get the full benefit of the investment on the machine

Think of it this way...a 12k Ag tractor can easily run a 12-18. Operating weight on the 244 is about 12k and loaders turn easier than tractors do with snow in the plow.


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## timsjeep

John_DeereGreen said:


> Unless you're being restricted by physical size access you want the 10-16. Anything smaller and I don't think you'll get the full benefit of the investment on the machine
> 
> Think of it this way...a 12k Ag tractor can easily run a 12-18. Operating weight on the 244 is about 12k and loaders turn easier than tractors do with snow in the plow.


I agree 100%.


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## smz89

Been thinking of adding something like this to our team. Anyone have thoughts on the wacker neuson wl37 or possibly the wl50? Or is a 244 the way to go?


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## Triple L

John_DeereGreen said:


> Unless you're being restricted by physical size access you want the 10-16. Anything smaller and I don't think you'll get the full benefit of the investment on the machine
> 
> Think of it this way...a 12k Ag tractor can easily run a 12-18. Operating weight on the 244 is about 12k and loaders turn easier than tractors do with snow in the plow.


We can't agree on anything it seems lol... the biggest plow you'll want on a 244J-k or 906H-h2 is a 9-15... expecially if we're talking live edge as it takes significantly more hp to push live edge then say a protech or boss pusher... The deere only has 59hp while the cat has 72... my 906h struggles to push a 9-15 non live edge on a heavy snow with 800-1200' pushes... metal pless does make a 9' live edge now, that being said deere just came out with a 244K-11 which has the 72hp motor found in th 324k but the speed of a 244... something to seriously consider as the emissions machine with the big motor is probably the machine to have... remember the 12k tractor has 110-130hp and direct drive manual transmission not a hydrostatic slush box and less then half the hp


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## awhip

How


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## awhip

How much faster is the 244 than the 344? I was looking at a Volvo l20, but looks like it's pretty slow. I don't have anything for a machine like this to do in the summer, but trying to get two good contracts for next year that would pay for it. Do you have to run a special controller to run that mp, or does it run off the auxiliary control on the loader.


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## timsjeep

awhip said:


> How much faster is the 244 than the 344? I was looking at a Volvo l20, but looks like it's pretty slow. I don't have anything for a machine like this to do in the summer, but trying to get two good contracts for next year that would pay for it. Do you have to run a special controller to run that mp, or does it run off the auxiliary control on the loader.


Im not sure about the 344 speed. I would be it is very close. I think the spec on the 244 is 18.5 MPH or close to that. I am sure the 344 is similar. I think you can get a Volvo with a road gear too. I know our local material yard just bought a L35 and its a beautiful machine. Really like the looks, but I love our 244J. Can not say enough good things about it. 
As for the MP, it runs off the 3rd valve and has an electric remote to work the wings. I will do a quick video on how ours is set up. I know that that this guy has a slightly different setup then we do, so Ill post mine up and you guys can all see the differences. I think my 244J is a few years older then his so there must have been some differences. Tim

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## rick W

Nice machines and vids. Really sweet.
Would love to own one set up like that but just cant justify the costs. We use a a few 12' boxes and 4x4 hoes to push them and while not perfect...the used boxes are $2500 and the used hoes we buy for $35K and sell after three or four years for $30K give or take so while i have money tied up, i dont have near the cash burn a lease burns up or the depreciation on a $125K investment. Do most of you buy these jd loaders new, used or just lease? Is there a bit of a sweet spot where you find a 3 year old clean machine, use for 5 years and sell for a good recoup? The mp blades are $15K in my area. I would LOVE one but...thats just a ton of money, lease costs or depreciation for the 5-10 plows a winter. What am i missing? I see lots of these around so i guess they make sense, but i dont see the math working better than what i have. I want to talk myself into it...help?


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## Maclawnco

rick W said:


> Nice machines and vids. Really sweet.
> Would love to own one set up like that but just cant justify the costs. We use a a few 12' boxes and 4x4 hoes to push them and while not perfect...the used boxes are $2500 and the used hoes we buy for $35K and sell after three or four years for $30K give or take so while i have money tied up, i dont have near the cash burn a lease burns up or the depreciation on a $125K investment. Do most of you buy these jd loaders new, used or just lease? Is there a bit of a sweet spot where you find a 3 year old clean machine, use for 5 years and sell for a good recoup? The mp blades are $15K in my area. I would LOVE one but...thats just a ton of money, lease costs or depreciation for the 5-10 plows a winter. What am i missing? I see lots of these around so i guess they make sense, but i dont see the math working better than what i have. I want to talk myself into it...help?


Unless you're in a heavy snow area, I don't see expensive boxes paying off TBH. And thats coming from someone with sectionals and metal pless boxes on all my lots.


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## timsjeep

rick W said:


> Nice machines and vids. Really sweet.
> Would love to own one set up like that but just cant justify the costs. We use a a few 12' boxes and 4x4 hoes to push them and while not perfect...the used boxes are $2500 and the used hoes we buy for $35K and sell after three or four years for $30K give or take so while i have money tied up, i dont have near the cash burn a lease burns up or the depreciation on a $125K investment. Do most of you buy these jd loaders new, used or just lease? Is there a bit of a sweet spot where you find a 3 year old clean machine, use for 5 years and sell for a good recoup? The mp blades are $15K in my area. I would LOVE one but...thats just a ton of money, lease costs or depreciation for the 5-10 plows a winter. What am i missing? I see lots of these around so i guess they make sense, but i dont see the math working better than what i have. I want to talk myself into it...help?


I completely understand your stance. However, I bought my 2008 244J for $37K this past summer with 4800 hours or so. It was in very good condition and required very little work to get up to our standards. I believe I could sell it today in my area for more then I paid for it. We use it around our yard in the summer for loading trucks and unloading deliveries (absolutely a luxury, not a nessesity). For snow, its just so incredibly productive with the MP that I feel very good about my investment. I believe this plow and loader will be in my fleet for 12-15 years before I move to a newer one. If we have it for 12 years with an average of 12 events per year, That comes out to about $400 per snow event. That number includes insurance and maintenance. I bill out about 2k per 2-3" storm with it, much more on a bigger storm. looking at it like that, its an easy investment to make. Plus its so fast, I now have 2-3 more trucks and plows available to use on other routes. Which also makes us more money. I have it on 3 large schools that are all within a 3 mile radius and it roads around to all 3 schools easily. I have these schools on 5 year contracts. This is the first of this 5 year contract so I know that I will have it completely paid for before the end of the 5 year contract, probably sooner. 
Its still a chunk of cash, no doubt, but the return is pretty amazing.


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## ponyboy

I agree where we live I don't know any one with a MP 
We have a local contractor biggest guy around by far still running rubber edge pushers 
He owns all his loaders same guys running them year after year but still rubber pushers 
Our area it's hard to justify the $15,000 per MP
Although they look just WOW 


Maclawnco said:


> Unless you're in a heavy snow area, I don't see expensive boxes paying off TBH. And thats coming from someone with sectionals and metal pless boxes on all my lots.


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## shooterm

It wasn't long ago we ran 275's with bucket extensions to do complexes. You had someone go out ahead and build windrows in either the salt tandem or graders. Then you just put them side by side and pushed the whole slug. This was mostly empty large lots. To be honest its all about what equipment fits and what routes your running. Only work well because plowing staff was mostly salary and experienced. Put a lawn fly in a $15k mp and you could just as well get the same production of a 8ft skid blade.


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## Mark Oomkes

Knockah22 said:


> If Deere offered a snow tire I would most likely go with them, but they don't. I would love to try a machine with snow tires to see the difference.


Actually, they do. I'm speccing one out now and can get Firestone 405. They may not be a dedicated snow tyre like the Nokians, but they have to be better than stock.










Still trying to decide between a 9-15 and 10-16. I'm a bit concerned that the 10-16 might be too much in a heavy snowfall. Especially if I don't have the right operator.


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## timsjeep

Mark Oomkes said:


> Actually, they do. I'm speccing one out now and can get Firestone 405. They may not be a dedicated snow tyre like the Nokians, but they have to be better than stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still trying to decide between a 9-15 and 10-16. I'm a bit concerned that the 10-16 might be too much in a heavy snowfall. Especially if I don't have the right operator.


I think you are using good judgement. We have the 10-16 and its been amazing and is perfect for what we do. We don't have crazy big snow more then once or twice a season. When we do get more then a foot, we just leave the wings in and only push what we can. Its still not too bad. However, we get a lot of light fluffy snow and for that, it will push all you can throw at it. For you guys that get the wet heavy snow, I think the 9-15 might be best. Hope that helps. Tim


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## Mark Oomkes

timsjeep said:


> I think you are using good judgement. We have the 10-16 and its been amazing and is perfect for what we do. We don't have crazy big snow more then once or twice a season. When we do get more then a foot, we just leave the wings in and only push what we can. Its still not too bad. However, we get a lot of light fluffy snow and for that, it will push all you can throw at it. For you guys that get the wet heavy snow, I think the 9-15 might be best. Hope that helps. Tim


Thanks Tim, that's the problem, the greater majority of our snowfalls are 1-3". I'm not even concerned about 6-8" really. It's the every once in awhile 12+ or the 6-8" wet and sloppy ones.

I have an HLA 10-16 SnowWing on my Kubota M125X that weighs in at aroond 15K. More HP and weight and while it doesn't struggle, it can get a workoot. But I hate to lose productivity on the majority of our snowfalls. And I hate to not be prepared for "the big one" since that's what separates the men from the boys.


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## John_DeereGreen

Doesn't @Triple L have a 9-14 on his Kitty Cat? And it's got several hundred pounds and 10 hp on the 244's.


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## timsjeep

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thanks Tim, that's the problem, the greater majority of our snowfalls are 1-3". I'm not even concerned about 6-8" really. It's the every once in awhile 12+ or the 6-8" wet and sloppy ones.
> 
> I have an HLA 10-16 SnowWing on my Kubota M125X that weighs in at aroond 15K. More HP and weight and while it doesn't struggle, it can get a workoot. But I hate to lose productivity on the majority of our snowfalls. And I hate to not be prepared for "the big one" since that's what separates the men from the boys.


I totally agree with you about being ready for "the big one" however, I have spent many sleepless nights trying to be prepared for those and when they come, we still are in a world of hurt. I think most of my clients know that when it comes down like that, they need to have a different set of expectations for what we can do. I hate to think like that, but its reality. If the 10-16 is perfect 95% of the time, then ill take my chances the other 5% of the time. Its only 1-2' different. In a big storm you will have the wings in anyway so its really a difference of 1'. Im not sure you would even be able to tell the differences. Just thinking out loud, I'm sure others will disagree.


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## Mark Oomkes

timsjeep said:


> I totally agree with you about being ready for "the big one" however, I have spent many sleepless nights trying to be prepared for those and when they come, we still are in a world of hurt. I think most of my clients know that when it comes down like that, they need to have a different set of expectations for what we can do. I hate to think like that, but its reality. If the 10-16 is perfect 95% of the time, then ill take my chances the other 5% of the time. Its only 1-2' different. In a big storm you will have the wings in anyway so its really a difference of 1'. Im not sure you would even be able to tell the differences. Just thinking out loud, I'm sure others will disagree.


I know what you're saying. I've had a couple Blizzard 810 models but most are 8611's. It's truly amazing how much difference that 1 foot makes.

Same thing with a 14' Ebling vs a 16' Ebling.

Seems like you have a shovel instead of a plow when using the smaller ones.


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## Triple L

John_DeereGreen said:


> Doesn't @Triple L have a 9-14 on his Kitty Cat? And it's got several hundred pounds and 10 hp on the 244's.


I have a 9-15 on my cat 906 and it works it... I would certainly not go any bigger if you have long pushes 1000'+... But it works great for us


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## Mark Oomkes

Triple L said:


> I have a 9-15 on my cat 906 and it works it... I would certainly not go any bigger if you have long pushes 1000'+... But it works great for us


Thanks Chad (despite your love of electric spreaders I do value your input)....the lots I would be using it on have very few long pushes, but I need something more capable than a skidsteer. We were fortunate last year in that we didn't have squat for snow and were able to make it through with the 650\8-13 combo. Limited stacking areas, so I need to be able to move a fair amount of snow short distances. And the lots are too cut up for a large loader to be efficient. 2 years ago had a 5101 with Blizzard and Ebling and it worked good, but the lot has changed and I need that tractor at other accounts.

But one of the accounts is fairly large but cut up and I think with the 244 I should be able to eliminate the need for a large loader to drive up to help except in really heavy snowfalls. And that should save me from being charged an hour's drive time by my sub.


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## GLSS22

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thanks Chad (despite your love of electric spreaders I do value your input)....the lots I would be using it on have very few long pushes, but I need something more capable than a skidsteer. We were fortunate last year in that we didn't have squat for snow and were able to make it through with the 650\8-13 combo. Limited stacking areas, so I need to be able to move a fair amount of snow short distances. And the lots are too cut up for a large loader to be efficient. 2 years ago had a 5101 with Blizzard and Ebling and it worked good, but the lot has changed and I need that tractor at other accounts.
> 
> But one of the accounts is fairly large but cut up and I think with the 244 I should be able to eliminate the need for a large loader to drive up to help except in really heavy snowfalls. And that should save me from being charged an hour's drive time by my sub.


Sounds like you know what the best decision is for you. I was back in forth between the 8-14 and 10-16, but for us the 10-16 made more sense because we are back dragging drives that where 16' wide on part of the route. It's a trade off you have to deal with either way. Little less production and easier pushing or more production and working your machine harder. 10-16 defiantly makes the 244 work but that's what makes hydraulic wings so great. Heavy wet snow you fold the wings in and now have a heavier 10ft pusher. If someone told you the were going to run a 10ft blade or pusher on the machine you wouldnt bat an eye. But we always wish we have the biggest blade/pusher possible on the 3" storms.

Although I haven't run other loaders, I can bet that the rear wheel steering on a 244 helps keep traction better than some of the competitors machines.

Another thing to consider is your local laws. We don't get bothered with our 10-16 traveling down the road in the forward/ wings folded position, some states and towns might.

All in all the operator for this setup can make or break it. A good operator will be able to adapt the plow to work in any snow.


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## GLSS22

Mark Oomkes said:


> Actually, they do. I'm speccing one out now and can get Firestone 405. They may not be a dedicated snow tyre like the Nokians, but they have to be better than stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still trying to decide between a 9-15 and 10-16. I'm a bit concerned that the 10-16 might be too much in a heavy snowfall. Elgin lly if I don't have the right operator.


I'll be calling the dealer tomorrow to check into this. Thanks for the info.


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## Mark Oomkes

I really want the 10-16 but decided on the 9-15 just because I can't be sure I will always have an extremely competent operator.

Thanks for the advice.


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## Triple L

Mark Oomkes said:


> I really want the 10-16 but decided on the 9-15 just because I can't be sure I will always have an extremely competent operator.
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


I don't think you'll regret that decision mark!


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## timsjeep

Mark Oomkes said:


> I really want the 10-16 but decided on the 9-15 just because I can't be sure I will always have an extremely competent operator.
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


Bottom line, you will love your MP! Either one is going to be amazing and you will be very happy. Tim


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## BUFF

timsjeep said:


> Bottom line, you will love your MP! Either one is going to be amazing and you will be very happy. Tim


Tim with more exposure you'll find oot if there's something to whine aboot he will.......:laugh::laugh:


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## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Tim with more exposure you'll find oot if there's something to whine aboot he will.......:laugh::laugh:


Sure...


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## Mark Oomkes

Tim, what are you using for a controller for the MP? I haven't decided what to do yet. I paid a chunk of change for my Bobcat dealer to swap a valve oot and add a Bobcat "brain" so I could use the hand controls on my 8-13, the 244 doesn't have that many hand controls.


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## Triple L

Mark Oomkes said:


> Tim, what are you using for a controller for the MP? I haven't decided what to do yet. I paid a chunk of change for my Bobcat dealer to swap a valve oot and add a Bobcat "brain" so I could use the hand controls on my 8-13, the 244 doesn't have that many hand controls.


2 bottons on the joystick run 1 wing, manual valve runs the other wing, and just an electric switch to switch between manual valve on 1 wing and main moldboard... Very simple


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## Mark Oomkes

Triple L said:


> 2 bottons on the joystick run 1 wing, manual valve runs the other wing, and just an electric switch to switch between manual valve on 1 wing and main moldboard... Very simple


Is that from MP or JD?


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## Triple L

Mark Oomkes said:


> Is that from MP or JD?


It's how I've seen any 244j with a wing plow of any brand set up


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## Mark Oomkes

Triple L said:


> It's how I've seen any 244j with a wing plow of any brand set up


Sorry...do I need the wiring harness from Deere or Metal Pless or both?


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## Triple L

Mark Oomkes said:


> Sorry...do I need the wiring harness from Deere or Metal Pless or both?


Shouldn't need anything if you have 2 aux. Outlets, other then a rocker switch and a diverter valve on manual control side, or a single diverter valve on the plow side controlled by the rocker switch in the cab... Most 244js I've seen all have 2nd aux...


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## timsjeep

Sorry I have missed all this chatter on the thread. I will get some details and pictures up soon. It was a PITA to get setup the first time but now its all good. Ill elaborate more when I get some pictures. Tim


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## Mark Oomkes

I have 2 wiring harnesses from MP. The first one with a joystick and 2 buttons is far superior to the JD 14 pin. What an unfascheiding disaster of EPIC proportions. Pretty much need to be an octupus to run that and it is anything but intuitive. 

Working with the dealer now to figure out something that actually works. 

I realize all these manufacturers have to have their own wiring and Bobcat is the worst, but the way these plows come oot of the factory is just stoopid. It's a great product, why make it so difficult to use? Most folks aren't born with 3 arms and hands.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> I have 2 wiring harnesses from MP. The first one with a joystick and 2 buttons is far superior to the JD 14 pin. What an unfascheiding disaster of EPIC proportions. Pretty much need to be an octupus to run that and it is anything but intuitive.
> 
> Working with the dealer now to figure out something that actually works.
> 
> I realize all these manufacturers have to have their own wiring and Bobcat is the worst, but
> 
> the way these plows come oot of the factory is just stoopid. It's a great product, why make it so difficult to use? Most folks aren't born with 3
> 
> arms and hands.


I was Born with Three arms and Hands...My mom drank...

This is not ready yet???....Why not??


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## John_DeereGreen

Try SureGrip controls. If you can dream it they can build it. I think that's who Metalpless uses but SureGrip can do all kinds of customization.


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## LapeerLandscape

Mark Oomkes said:


> I have 2 wiring harnesses from MP. The first one with a joystick and 2 buttons is far superior to the JD 14 pin. What an unfascheiding disaster of EPIC proportions. Pretty much need to be an octupus to run that and it is anything but intuitive.
> 
> Working with the dealer now to figure out something that actually works.
> 
> I realize all these manufacturers have to have their own wiring and Bobcat is the worst, but the way these plows come oot of the factory is just stoopid. It's a great product, why make it so difficult to use? Most folks aren't born with 3 arms and hands.


I dont know why they cant simplify that some. Look at all the functions on the D/D wideout or Vee and you operate everything with your thumb.


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## Triple L

All you need is a 3 way switch guys it's not rocket appliances....

Mount the 3 way switch to the dash... Left toggle runs the left wing, center (no power) is moldboard and right toggle runs the right wing, it's literally a 3 wire install, power for the selected wing and a ground... then you use your aux hydraulics up and down to move the selected wing


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## Mark Oomkes

Triple L said:


> All you need is a 3 way switch guys it's not rocket appliances....
> 
> Mount the 3 way switch to the dash... Left toggle runs the left wing, center (no power) is moldboard and right toggle runs the right wing, it's literally a 3 wire install, power for the selected wing and a ground... then you use your aux hydraulics up and down to move the selected wing


Pics?

Trying to run it through the JD 14 pin wire harness that only has 3 live wires coming from the plow.


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## John_DeereGreen

Triple L said:


> All you need is a 3 way switch guys it's not rocket appliances....
> 
> Mount the 3 way switch to the dash... Left toggle runs the left wing, center (no power) is moldboard and right toggle runs the right wing, it's literally a 3 wire install, power for the selected wing and a ground... then you use your aux hydraulics up and down to move the selected wing


He probably wants to run it all on 1 joystick like his t650. And be able to move the wings without taking his hand off the loader joystick.


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## Defcon 5

Triple L said:


> All you need is a 3 way switch guys it's not rocket appliances....
> 
> Mount the 3 way switch to the dash... Left toggle runs the left wing, center (no power) is moldboard and right toggle runs the right wing, it's literally a 3 wire install, power for the
> 
> selected wing and a ground... then you use your aux hydraulics up and down to move the selected wing


I have never seen Rocket Appliances....Although a quarter stick of dynamite in a Dryer sure makes it lift off...Not that I would know


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## GLSS22

Very easy to setup in a 244 with the metal pless 2 button controller. Just connect controller to power and stick it on the 3rd function control arm.

No extra switches. 
Here's a video that I made on how ours is setup.


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## 1olddogtwo

GLSS22 said:


> Very easy to setup in a 244 with the metal pless 2 button controller. Just connect controller to power and stick it on the 3rd function control arm.
> 
> No extra switches.
> Here's a video that I made on how ours is setup.


Great video but that's to simple for @Mark Oomkes.


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## Mark Oomkes

1olddogtwo said:


> Great video but that's to simple for @Mark Oomkes.


Iz two...


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## Herm Witte

GLSS22 said:


> Very easy to setup in a 244 with the metal pless 2 button controller. Just connect controller to power and stick it on the 3rd function control arm.
> 
> No extra switches.
> Here's a video that I made on how ours is setup.


That's how we set ours up as well. Our mechanic did not complain. Seems to work well.


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## Mark Oomkes

GLSS22 said:


> Very easy to setup in a 244 with the metal pless 2 button controller. Just connect controller to power and stick it on the 3rd function control arm.
> 
> No extra switches.
> Here's a video that I made on how ours is setup.


OK, I get it now...and I figured out "my" problem (at least with the 244). I don't have a 3rd function. 

My fault I didn't make sure. Although I would have thought the sales rep would have asked\recommended. It can be added and will be doing that.

Thanks for the video, that makes much more sense now.


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## BUFF

1olddogtwo said:


> Great video but that's to simple for @Mark Oomkes.


Pretty sure it'd turn into a full blown science project or SS...


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## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Pretty sure it'd turn into a full blown science project or SS...


Sure...


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## 1olddogtwo

Mark Oomkes said:


> OK, I get it now...and I figured out "my" problem (at least with the 244). I don't have a 3rd function.
> 
> My fault I didn't make sure. Although I would have thought the sales rep would have asked\recommended. It can be added and will be doing that.
> 
> Thanks for the video, that makes much more sense now.





BUFF said:


> Pretty sure it'd turn into a full blown science project or SS...


It will be if Mark doesn't himself.


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## Mark Oomkes

Finally got a chance to plow with the 244 earlier this week. Very nice setup. Took some getting used to the controls but I figured oot a few tricks to simplify things. 

My personal opinion is it's a tad underpowered. It worked but it did lug a little here and there. And it was only 3-4". 

The PlowMaxx is nothing short of amazing. Absolutely amazing how well it cleans. 

It's a great machine for small to medium accounts, I wouldn't put it on anything too large. If I end up replacing the Kubota 125 with a loader, it won't be a 244.


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## DeVries

Thanks for that Mark. I've been looking for one but now maybe will decide on a larger one. I hope to put a 8-13 on it, not sure what size your running on yours.


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## Mark Oomkes

DeVries said:


> Thanks for that Mark. I've been looking for one but now maybe will decide on a larger one. I hope to put a 8-13 on it, not sure what size your running on yours.


9-15...the 8-13 on the T650 works great, even with crappy tracks.


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## Triple L

Aren't you glad you didn't go with a 10-16 now mark


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## Mark Oomkes

Triple L said:


> Aren't you glad you didn't go with a 10-16 now mark


LOL...yes


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Finally got a chance to plow with the 244 earlier this week. Very nice setup. Took some getting used to the controls but I figured oot a few tricks to simplify things.
> 
> My personal opinion is it's a tad underpowered. It worked but it did lug a little here and there.
> 
> And it was only 3-4".
> 
> The PlowMaxx is nothing short of amazing.
> 
> Absolutely amazing how well it cleans.
> 
> It's a great machine for small to medium
> 
> accounts, I wouldn't put it on anything too large. If I end up replacing the Kubota 125 with a loader, it won't be a 244.


It's my understanding those are not cost effective in "Low Snow" areas.,..Is there any truth to this myth


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> It's my understanding those are not cost effective in "Low Snow" areas.,..Is there any truth to this myth


We're pretty low on snowfall this year but the profits from my per service and hourly accounts are covering the added cost.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> We're pretty low on snowfall this year but the profits from my per service and hourly accounts are covering the added cost.


Thank you for debunking this myth...


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## Triple L

Defcon 5 said:


> Thank you for debunking this myth...


Mark MythBusters oomkes lol


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> We're pretty low on snowfall this year but the profits from my per service and hourly accounts are covering the added cost.


I have a follow up question Mark....Do you think because some are claiming these metal Pless contraptions are not "cost effective" in "Low snow" areas is because quite possibly they are not charging enough??


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> I have a follow up question Mark....Do you think because some are claiming these metal Pless contraptions are not "cost effective" in "Low snow" areas is because quite possibly they are not charging enough??


Ya think?


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Ya think?


I was not sure...That's why I was Axing


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> I was not sure...That's why I was Axing


K


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