# False salt shortage???????????????



## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm just wondering if maybe the salt manufacturers are creating a false salt shortage, and following suit of the oil companies to boost profits. Maybe congress should be investigating this rather than steroid use or film use in sports. This could be costing peoples lives, and if it's found to be true than they should be held criminally liable. I would think that the insurance companies would want to hop on board with an investigation, it's got to be costing them a ton of money.


----------



## Lakestate1 (Nov 6, 2007)

False shortage? I do not see how they would boost profits when they do not have salt to sell to private contractors, at least around here.


----------



## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

Less supply=more demand for the supply= more money per volume of salt produced.


----------



## exmark1 (Nov 30, 2005)

But suppliers have none to sell...wheres the profit then! It just doesn't make sense...


----------



## 84deisel (Dec 2, 2003)

if it was a false shortage, then how come I am paying the samw amount as I was at the beginning of the season ?


----------



## RSheaLand (Jan 26, 2006)

In my are many towns have switched from sand/salt mix to treated salt in the past couple of years just like our state DOT has so there probably is alot more being used at least in CT


----------



## Dodge Plow Pwr (Dec 7, 2007)

When this season started I was paying $4.45/ #50 bag, Then up to $4.59 NOW it is at $4.99. They told me they raised the price to slow down the sales of it so they could sell more to more people???? makes NO sense to me, but I am over a barrel and have to pay. I bought some stuff from Home Depot and it is bigger chuncks than that from Menards, don't work as well either. I have already gone through 11 skids this year and usually only go through 5 total for the year.


----------



## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

exmark1;515783 said:


> But suppliers have none to sell...wheres the profit then! It just doesn't make sense...


I was referring to the producers. Selling less for more, plus don't have to pay as much labor to produce the same income.


----------



## GL&M (Sep 26, 2005)

I'll let you know tomorrow when I go to pick up another skid.


----------



## Ultra (Dec 3, 2007)

*There is Salt*

Michigan is loaded with salt! Pretty bad when I have to travel 1 hour to get it and I watch the news and The supplier says to the reporter that they are only supplying to their good customers. I have a credit card with them with a zero balance and that is not a good customer? What ever happened to ethics? They will only sell to the large volume customer but lets face when they load the truck its one bucket at a time! Its too bad that the world has a bunch of business owners with no integrity..First come first serve is what I say as long as you have the money you should be able to purchase. They do advertise 24 hour service.


----------



## Enviouslawns (Dec 13, 2007)

http://www.russgibbatrandom.com/arch...02-12/964/#c_0


----------



## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

Enviouslawns;516249 said:


> http://www.russgibbatrandom.com/arch...02-12/964/#c_0


Doesn't work- not found


----------



## Enviouslawns (Dec 13, 2007)

sparky8370;516283 said:


> Doesn't work- not found


try it now http://www.russgibbatrandom.com/archive/2008-02-12/964/#c_0


----------



## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

I think I found what you were trying to link and I copied it.




RUBBING SALT IN AN OPEN WOUND So here we go with the next absolute fleecing of the Michigan people and another blow to our economy. The Morton Salt Company is engaging in a predatory business practice that rivals John D. Rockefeller's and Standard Oil. These guys have, basically shut down their South Dearborn mine and was forcing all salt to come from the Canadian Morton Mine. They are now saying that because the Detroit River is frozen, they will not ship it to Michigan. The trucks lined up to truck it over the bridge and within hours, they shut down the Windsor mine saying that there is a shortage and are now choking off salt supplies in a state that is built almost entirely on top of a salt mine. As I am typing this letter, the Cleveland Morton Salt Mine has just shut it's mine down. Basically, they are choking off the supply of road salt and it is now causing the price of salt on hand in Michigan to sky rocket. Our genius Governor Grandholm sold millions of tons of our stock piled salt to the state of Illinois and now we are out of salt. We are now buying it back from Illinois at almost twice the price and having to truck it back into Michigan on our taxpayers. How can Morton Salt Company operate in such a blatantly anti-trust mode when it comes to public safety? How can our Governor sit on her hands while a company that draws incredible subsidies from out state and federal government, basically, choke us off costing our economy millions by the hour. We have independent contractors who are using water softening salt to salt parking lots despite the fact that they ALREADY paid for the salt they are being stiffed for. The state of Michigan as well as independent contractors have paid in advance for this product and it sits in huge heaps over on Oakwood at the salt mine while Morton refuses to provide the product that we already paid for. Now we have to buy our own salt back from another state? This event threatens to cost our economy millions in lost revenue while the state does nothing in the face of a potential public safety catastrophe. Salt was going a week ago cost $75.00 a ton delivered from the mine. Right now just before Windsor shut the mine down it was $150.00 per ton. IF someone has salt on hand, it will soon cost over $200.00 per ton. Every single mine for a 500 mile radius has shut down and everyone including the state of Michigan is fighting over salt! Can you believe that we are fighting over salt in Michigan! This is simply incredible! First they jammed us on gasoline when there was no shortage, not we are about to be fleeced for salt? I simply don't understand why we sit back and take this!

Mr. Miller


----------



## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

I would suggest a boycott of all Morton products in the future. Detroit Salt is running at capacity, but can't keep up with the demand. At least they are trying.


----------



## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

sounds like a great idea to me


----------



## Sealer (Dec 15, 2007)

The gov. should declare a state of emergency and send some national guard to the mines and TAKE what they want!!!


----------



## michigancutter (Feb 12, 2008)

Do you know how many lawn & landscaping companies their are? If we could band together as one we could really turn some heads and maybe change some laws or add some laws that would prevent this from happing in the future and protect us somehow. We maybe should create some kind of union or organization to help outdoor service companies.


----------



## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

I kinda felt like a kook even suggesting this as a possibility, but that article kinda confirms what I was thinking.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mark Oomkes;516499 said:


> Short answer, that guy is an idiot. Morton is not the only supplier of salt to MI and\or US, so maybe he needs to check facts and get over his cranial\rectal inversion. There are 4 main salt suppliers, International, Morton, North American and Cargill. There are probably more, but those are the biggest. Maybe Morton did shut down, but that does not explain why the others have shut off their supplies other than something called "eminent domain". The state can take the salt for the greater good and has to repay the supplier at some point in time. Not immediately. NASC shuts off their private vendors before this happens. I know this because I have bought from them before.
> 
> 3 gravel trains of salt is smaller than a drop in the bucket in SE Michigan, much less MI, IL, OH, etc. I can go through that in an ice storm without sneezing.
> 
> ...


Here's my post in the SE Michigan thread. Nothing personal, but if you think this shortage is contrived, you're ignorant. This happens every time there is a hard winter, has happened before and will happen again. Most of you just haven't been around long enough to have experienced it before.

Sparky, that guy is an idiot. No doubt.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ultra;516101 said:


> Michigan is loaded with salt! Pretty bad when I have to travel 1 hour to get it and I watch the news and The supplier says to the reporter that they are only supplying to their good customers. I have a credit card with them with a zero balance and that is not a good customer? What ever happened to ethics? They will only sell to the large volume customer but lets face when they load the truck its one bucket at a time! Its too bad that the world has a bunch of business owners with no integrity..First come first serve is what I say as long as you have the money you should be able to purchase. They do advertise 24 hour service.


Where is it loaded with salt that isn't in the mines? If it is, how come all the salt is coming out of Ohio or further right now?


----------



## vengeanceent (Nov 5, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;516545 said:


> Here's my post in the SE Michigan thread. Nothing personal, but if you think this shortage is contrived, you're ignorant. This happens every time there is a hard winter, has happened before and will happen again. Most of you just haven't been around long enough to have experienced it before.
> 
> Sparky, that guy is an idiot. No doubt.


You hit it right on the head!


----------



## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

I bet if we could get a week or two without a snow event, things would be back to normal.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Metro Lawn;516649 said:


> I bet if we could get a week or two without a snow event, things would be back to normal.


It wouldn't alleviate it, but it would help immensely.


----------



## Sno4U (Dec 30, 2003)

I don't think a boycott is possible for those of us who have legal obligations to uphold contracts for salting clients. I can just hear it now from a lawyer for a slip & fall claim "So Mr. Contractor why didn't you salt the lot even though you could get salt?" Contractor: " Uh, I was boycotting the salt industry?" Ya, that'll go over real gooood.


----------



## gd8boltman (Dec 18, 2002)

*The theory that some salt suppliers are similiar to*

the oil companies is silly...... There are many factors involved, but the number one is supply and demand, it is that simple. The fact that those who have been able to secure large quantities of bulk salt and are now able to sell at a handsome profit have gambled real dollars, and this year it is paying off for them, I say good for them. The fact that folks are willing to pay $125.00 per ton plus shows that the demand is clearly there.Gasoline prices have many similiar factors which include supply and demand, but one few consider is the weakness of the American dollar in the world currency market which also affects the pump price.


----------



## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

My dollar is feeling weaker right here in the US!


----------



## SnowGuy (Jan 7, 2006)

No shortage that I can see. I have salt available from my supplier. I just ordered a semi load yesterday for Tuesday delivery. 18 skids of 50# bags @ $4.25 per bag delivered. Price is a little high, however, we all know that we make a killing on de-icing work, so I don't listen to the ones crying about small price increases, I am still making GREAT money !!!


----------



## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

What most you understand is there is still Bag salt here!! I can buy bags all day long around here for now!

The bulk is running low now!


The Brikmen Group, is out of salt in there Cloumbus ohio office, and they can not get any for the rest of the year!!


----------



## S & A Landscaping & Plo (Dec 2, 2006)

*Need help on this one.... SIR CHARGE*

Does any one know to calculate a sir charge....My customer told me to add a sir charge on the bill for the salt that has gone up ????? I was paying 50.00 for a yd...now paying 125.00 for a yd...All of my customer told me to do this i am glad thay understand this...THANKS


----------



## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

S & A Landscaping & Plowing Service;518384 said:


> Does any one know to calculate a sir charge....My customer told me to add a sir charge on the bill for the salt that has gone up ????? I was paying 50.00 for a yd...now paying 125.00 for a yd...All of my customer told me to do this i am glad thay understand this...THANKS


I would Just charge them more.

IE

If youi were billing out XXXX Per 100lbs now Bill out YYY Per 100lbs


----------



## Midwest BuildIt Inc (Nov 14, 2004)

S & A Landscaping & Plowing Service;518384 said:


> Does any one know to calculate a sir charge....My customer told me to add a sir charge on the bill for the salt that has gone up ????? I was paying 50.00 for a yd...now paying 125.00 for a yd...All of my customer told me to do this i am glad thay understand this...THANKS


Um lets see if i can do this, I failed out of high school though.

Was paying 50 per ton
now paying 125 per ton

That would be a um 75 per ton difference.

So my surcharge would be um $75 per ton....Man glad i graduated grade school...lol


----------



## nevrnf (Oct 12, 2005)

If you are applying it for 2.5 times cost then remultiply by your new cost


----------



## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

Sno4U;518004 said:


> I don't think a boycott is possible for those of us who have legal obligations to uphold contracts for salting clients. I can just hear it now from a lawyer for a slip & fall claim "So Mr. Contractor why didn't you salt the lot even though you could get salt?" Contractor: " Uh, I was boycotting the salt industry?" Ya, that'll go over real gooood.


A boycott is possible. Morton is not the only supplier. I myself am not going to buy any Morton products. I will order my bulk from Detroit Salt next season and not buy the Morton Saf-T salt in bags either. If Morton was even trying to do anything I woundn't feel this way. Detroit salt is running 24/7 at full capacity and Morton shut down every location in the midwest all at once.


----------



## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

nevrnf;518899 said:


> If you are applying it for 2.5 times cost then remultiply by your new cost


I was going to say the same, but a surcharge is to cover the difference. If he multiplied by 2.5 it would also make his profit margin 250% larger too. He should just figure out the difference of the cost of the job and add it on.


----------



## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

around here there is big time shortages. Some contractors have some left some are completly out. Some neigboring towns are VERY low and now mixing the salt with sand and can only do main roads and not side streets.


----------



## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

The rise in prices is more than likely caused by higher transportation costs or from greed by some retailers if your buying bag products. Either way its minimal and can be easily recouped.


----------



## 84deisel (Dec 2, 2003)

update for northern il :municipalities around the chicago metro area are recieving salt and are building their stockpiles.And to all of you boycotters, the salt they are recieving is blue.As of this morning ,Palatine il has gotten in over 200 tons so far[ they were completly out last week] and I here that alot of other towns up here are recieving shipments today.


----------



## madmaxxxx (Dec 6, 2007)

I have 10 tons I can spare to someone in the SW burbs of chicago if somebody is interested. You will have to pick it up. PM me if you are interested. I stocked up when the shortage was happening.


----------



## Landscape guy (Aug 27, 2006)

*salt prices*

We just ran into a shortage from all the suppliers ,salt depot on their web site said they got some in for their main accts. but it cost an extra 10.00 a ton more for the special delivery which the contractor has to pay. seems suspicous to me im glad i don't buy from them .tymusic


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

$10\ton more? Shoot, I'd buy as much as I could get if my supplier only marked it up $10. Try triple what we were paying.


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I just drove by Cuttlers dock yesterday and there stock piles of salt are as big as they are every year.

????


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SnoFarmer;522728 said:


> I just drove by Cuttlers dock yesterday and there stock piles of salt are as big as they are every year.
> 
> ????


So when ya sending that nice, balmy weather down so I can have big stock piles of salt?


----------



## Landscape guy (Aug 27, 2006)

*10.00 per ton more*

We just got a load from our regular supplier they said this morning they had 60 ton when i got their we were lucky they had about 3 or4 tons left more coming in and their increase was 5.00 a ton ,it is nothing triple would be hard to deal with.tymusic


----------



## mnconst (Feb 25, 2008)

Yes it is true, I have been out of salt for 2 weeks


----------



## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*Morton is honoring the agreement*

I have an agreement with Morton Salt in Cleveland Ohio area. They are delivering me salt as fast as they can. The trucking company is working 6 days a week. So far I just have to think ahead and order a week out to get my allotment.

The people at Morton and Arms Trucking are OK in my book.


----------



## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

Just in case it's not being understood properly, my question wasn't whether or not there is a shortage. There obviously is in some areas. My question is whether or not you think that the shortage is being up-played by the salt producers to increase profit margins.


----------



## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*Price didnt change for me*

The price of salt did not change for me. The availability of salt did. On the 29th of February Morton suspended all sales of road salt to private contractors in North America I was told by a Morton Salt representative. Morton STOPPED selling salt to me and is concentrating on selling to Cities that have not met there quota.

The price gouging is coming from people who have some extra salt and trying to make a quick buck. Not from Morton.


----------

