# What machine to buy for sidewalks



## oxcar3

Looking at machines for sidewalks. Don't realy want to spend $35000 on a Ventrac. 
What's everyone using?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

http://www.plowsite.com/threads/john-deere-1025r-sidewalk-machine.166721/


----------



## grasskeepers

I use toro power clears


----------



## Dogplow Dodge

Lots of companies here stopped using machines for these. They use a lot less oil, but on rare occasions dump or leak on the grounds.

Me personally, my wife clears mine, and all it costs is my sanity, pride, and hearing loss in my right ear


----------



## Defcon 5

oxcar3 said:


> Looking at machines for sidewalks. Don't realy want to spend $35000 on a Ventrac.
> What's everyone using?


I was informed by Oomkes that a Ventrac replaces 12 men...He is the King of Snow so he would know....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> I was informed by Oomkes that a Ventrac replaces 12 men...He is the King of Snow so he would know....


Negative Ghostrider, that was the inventor of snow, and he said 10 men.

I wanted to axe how that would work if I only had 3 people on my crews......


----------



## FredG

Dogplow Dodge said:


> Lots of companies here stopped using machines for these. They use a lot less oil, but on rare occasions dump or leak on the grounds.
> 
> Me personally, my wife clears mine, and all it costs is my sanity, pride, and hearing loss in my right ear
> 
> View attachment 167597


That will work, I have done it and still doing, I have a sidewalk machine you still need a couple for detail or places you can't get in easy. Thumbs Up


----------



## FredG

Dogplow Dodge said:


> Lots of companies here stopped using machines for these. They use a lot less oil, but on rare occasions dump or leak on the grounds.
> 
> Me personally, my wife clears mine, and all it costs is my sanity, pride, and hearing loss in my right ear
> 
> View attachment 167597


Your a lucky Dog, Dog, I can't get anybody in my Family to even think about helping me, You must have one of them Sara palan real Women, My Wife is a RN she could still help me on her spare time, LOL


----------



## lawntec

This is a very tough question. I mean, you have consider what kind of route you have and where you want your business to go. I have run a lot of different machines in search for the best. But every time one I improved something I was short on the other end.

Here is what my best out fit has been....sub $10,000.
- ATV with a plow
- Plow on a WB dual hydro mower
- 2 - Toro snow throwers (non-elec start)
- 2 - 36"+ shovels
- 4 - misc shovels
- 1 trailer with a rear ramp for ATV and side ramp of WB.
- 1 truck with 3 fast walking people.

Thing is, I ran that combo for years,and did very well. Right up until the day I bought my Ventrac. Once I had the Ventrac, I sold almost everything, lol.


----------



## Afsvanderveen

Deere 3046r with a hla v plow and drop salter on the back. Strap a shovel to it and itll replace 6 guys easy in a night. Also save a pile on salt costs and get the material where u want it on the walks.....i now have 3 machiens and these allways suprise me how much they can do in a night.


----------



## White_Gold11

Take a look at kubota f series rear steer. We have been using for years reliable and can use blower, blade, or broom. And get the biggest engine you can afford, you can never have to much power..


----------



## theplowmeister

The college near me used an old chevy Blazer for there side walks


----------



## pdmissle

We started off with an atv with a plow and snowex drop spreader. Quickly upgraded to a Bobcat S70 with a blower and broom. This year we picked up a Wacker WL32 with a 55" blower and a 9' Kage Plow.


----------



## tebletlawns

Look at a snowrator by lt rich. If I was going after a new sidewalk machine, that would be it. I currently use a zero turn mower with a 6' plow.


----------



## Laner

We have used JD X739 tractors with 2-stage snow blowers a shovel stuck in the weights on the back with 1 truck and trailer.


----------



## NEhomer

Dogplow Dodge said:


> Lots of companies here stopped using machines for these. They use a lot less oil, but on rare occasions dump or leak on the grounds.
> 
> Me personally, my wife clears mine, and all it costs is my sanity, pride, and hearing loss in my right ear
> 
> View attachment 167597


Your wife's a babe and them are some fine lookin' boys you've raised


----------



## lawn king

I use a kubota B2320 with turf tires, heated curtis cab and a kubota 60" front power angle plow.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

lawn king said:


> kubota B2320 with turf tires


So I've been running a JD 2320 with turf tires on walks, and they suck. I take it yours work OK?


----------



## lawn king

No traction issues with the turfs, the rears are loaded and the cab adds extra weight as does the quickhitch on the 3 pt. Every now and then i get hung up on a patch of ice, but she pretty much plows through anything! This plow set up is kubota subframe and plow controlled by the loader valve, not some hack plow welded to the bucket!


----------



## jdelec

pdmissle said:


> We started off with an atv with a plow and snowex drop spreader. Quickly upgraded to a Bobcat S70 with a blower and broom. This year we picked up a Wacker WL32 with a 55" blower and a 9' Kage Plow.


How do you like the Wacker WL32? We use an s70 with a blower on our 1.4 miles of sidewalks and it is a real time saver.


----------



## tpendagast

This will sound crazy 
But I used to have this Ford ranger with a 4.0 and a 6 ft plow with a sander in the back and air bags 
Even crazier I bought it that way.

I used to jump curb and drive down sidewalks with it 
Obviously the 4’ and smaller walks would be a challenge 
I used to sub a lot of sidewalks for other guys 
I originally intended the truck as a QC supervisor vehicle but got inpatient with Shoveler’s who were “over whelmed” by larger sidewalks 

“Outta my way Hondo, I’m coming through!”

I really liked that truck 
It would have been a driveway monster
I never did driveways with it tho


----------



## wishfull

JD X748 with HDAP tires (weighted) 4 wheel drive and 52" broom or 54" hydraulic blade. Works great on narrow walks and walks with low overhangs such as signs, awnings, trees etc.


----------



## lawnboy

I love our snowrator . It's easy and gets in tight areas .


----------



## tpendagast

lawnboy said:


> I love our snowrator . It's easy and gets in tight areas .


How do you transport it?
A trailer?


----------



## Kristin Stephan

Give us your feedback! Tell us if this is something that KAGE should pursue!
First Video
Second Video


----------



## EWSplow

Kristin Stephan said:


> Give us your feedback! Tell us if this is something that KAGE should pursue!
> First Video
> Second Video


Some of us old timers don't use FB.


----------



## FredG

I own a Trackless and a bomby, I only seen this this Snowrator thing when AJlawn posted a video when he was dealing with snow off a roof, Seen the advertising about it and a few threads where people owned them but not in action.

I'm not sure I like the stand up and open operators station. But the performance of it looked real handy. I have no real life experience and don't know the retail but was impressed


----------



## FredG

EWSplow said:


> Some of us old timers don't use FB.


How old are you Grandpa??


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Kristin Stephan said:


> Give us your feedback! Tell us if this is something that KAGE should pursue!
> First Video
> Second Video


Feedback is stop using a way of marketing that not everyone can access.

Ever heard of TubeYou?


----------



## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> Feedback is stop using a way of marketing that not everyone can access.
> 
> Ever heard of TubeYou?


LMAO, Your killing me.


----------



## Kristin Stephan

Mark Oomkes said:


> Feedback is stop using a way of marketing that not everyone can access.
> 
> Ever heard of TubeYou?


Mark, sorry, this is where the video's are now... no longer on the phone. Do either of the videos play for you?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I don't have a BookFace account so I can't watch either.


----------



## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't have a BookFace account so I can't watch either.


Yes I don't deal with bookface lol. Tubeyou is better.


----------



## EWSplow

FredG said:


> How old are you Grandpa??


Old enough to know FB is,a,waste of time.


----------



## FredG

EWSplow said:


> Old enough to know FB is,a,waste of time.


Lol my Warden uses it to communicate with her Family out of state I think. Were you born before 1958 if so you maybe the oldest member lol. Still early enough to be a founding member of the PS FOG club besides Randell and myself lol.


----------



## FredG

EWSplow said:


> Old enough to know FB is,a,waste of time.


Correction... It's Bookface lol.


----------



## leigh

Never saw this rig before, looks like the major "game changer" of the week.
http://www.fisherplows.com/products/rb-400/


----------



## Kristin Stephan

Try these:
Video 1
Vidoe 2


----------



## m_ice

I don't have Facebook and could view the videos but I'm not sure what the question is??? I'm not where I can turn volume up but it looks like a blower for a front mount mower platform.


----------



## DeVries

Lets see it in action before all the snow melts


----------



## pdmissle

jdelec said:


> How do you like the Wacker WL32? We use an s70 with a blower on our 1.4 miles of sidewalks and it is a real time saver.


The WL32 Wacker is awesome! We use it for so many things year round. I bought it to replace the S70 on sidewalks but found with a 9' Kage it would run circles around our 1 ton trucks with plows. We still use it on some sidewalks but recently picked up a Ventrac 4500z that is the new star on sidewalks. The Ventrac snow blower works great, the broom does a great job from slush to 3" of snow. The Ventrac drop spreader couldn't possibly work any better!


----------



## pdmissle

pdmissle said:


> The WL32 Wacker is awesome! We use it for so many things year round. I bought it to replace the S70 on sidewalks but found with a 9' Kage it would run circles around our 1 ton trucks with plows. We still use it on some sidewalks but recently picked up a Ventrac 4500z that is the new star on sidewalks. The Ventrac snow blower works great, the broom does a great job from slush to 3" of snow. The Ventrac drop spreader couldn't possibly work any better!
> 
> View attachment 179726


----------



## pdmissle

Kristin Stephan said:


> Give us your feedback! Tell us if this is something that KAGE should pursue!
> First Video
> Second Video


First thing I think of is the weight on the front end! Second I don't see any salter or liquid deicer. Unless it can do it all it doesn't qualify as a sidewalk machine for our company.


----------



## Kristin Stephan

Good observations pdmissle!
The blower that is on it is made by Holder (another articulated sidewalk machine). The blower weighs about 350#. The Terrain Cut with this amount of weight in front needs 150# of rear counterweight. Furthermore, in terms of your question about de-icer, we are planning to develop a 20-30 gallon tank for pre & post treat liquid applications. Nozzles will go in front, between the implement and the cab.


----------



## pdmissle

Kristin Stephan said:


> Good observations pdmissle!
> The blower that is on it is made by Holder (another articulated sidewalk machine). The blower weighs about 350#. The Terrain Cut with this amount of weight in front needs 150# of rear counterweight. Furthermore, in terms of your question about de-icer, we are planning to develop a 20-30 gallon tank for pre & post treat liquid applications. Nozzles will go in front, between the implement and the cab.


A spray bar on the rear may help keep some of the brine off the machine resulting in premature rusting.


----------



## Kristin Stephan

pdmissle said:


> A spray bar on the rear may help keep some of the brine off the machine resulting in premature rusting.


Do you do 100% brine on your walks, or do you use both liquid and brine? Wondering in terms of the perfect sidewalk machine...


----------



## Kristin Stephan

Kristin Stephan said:


> Do you do 100% brine on your walks, or do you use both liquid and brine? Wondering in terms of the perfect sidewalk machine...


*meant liquid and solid*


----------



## pdmissle

Kristin Stephan said:


> *meant liquid and solid*


We have used liquid as a pre and granular as a post, or just granular.

I would like to see Kage come up with a live edge on the plow. It's a great plow but my lots are not flat and I'm considering switching to a metal pless or artic sectional.

A truck plow with down pressure and a live edge would be nice.


----------



## Kristin Stephan

pdmissle said:


> We have used liquid as a pre and granular as a post, or just granular.
> 
> I would like to see Kage come up with a live edge on the plow. It's a great plow but my lots are not flat and I'm considering switching to a metal pless or artic sectional.
> 
> A truck plow with down pressure and a live edge would be nice.


pdmissle,
Funny you say that about the 'live edge'. We may already have that for you at the end of 2018! If you haven't already, follow our youtube channel, or subscribe to our email list on our website. That's the best way to guarantee you get the latest updates! Until then SSSSSHHHH


----------



## Mark Oomkes

leigh said:


> Never saw this rig before, looks like the major "game changer" of the week.
> http://www.fisherplows.com/products/rb-400/


SnowEx has had that oot for awhile


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Kristin Stephan said:


> Try these:
> Video 1
> Vidoe 2


So basically we're just looking at the hitch?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Just wanted to make sure I was getting excited aboot the right thing.


----------



## EWSplow

It resembles the setup that toddman36 built.


----------



## Kristin Stephan

Mark Oomkes said:


> So basically we're just looking at the hitch?


Mark, correct. 
The object of this is to provide a: 

readily available platform (i.e. the terrain cut is something made or at least serviced in the states)

that is 4 wheel drive,

highly maneuverable (rear wheel steer),

high horsepower (35 HP),

good visibility and cab (very nice and spacious cab),

that will fit down a 5' wide sidewalk or less (the terrain cut is 52" wide). 
The only drawback in all of this is that these type of front deck machines (Kubota, John Deere, and Toro all make one) is that they use their own proprietary attachments, and those are usually not geared toward commercial use (light duty). This is what we are trying to fix. Combining all of the good features of the Terrain Cut platform (listed above) with any CAT I 3 point attachment you want. This could open you up to a good MB attachment broom, a Pronovost blower, a Holder V plow etc.
Initial thoughts?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Kristin Stephan said:


> Initial thoughts?


Would be sweet if I owned an outfront mower.

But in reality, my biggest headaches with sidewalks is small, tight walks. Walks that a front mount don't fit in very well. And the second biggest issue is having a machine that can handle small, tight areas but also clear long walks that get filled in by drifting, heavy snows or the muni trucks.

I'm starting to believe there isn't going to be a one size fits all machine. I might have to adapt my thinking and crews to this and create a _game changing_ way of handling this problem.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Would be sweet if I owned an outfront mower.
> 
> But in reality, my biggest headaches with sidewalks is small, tight walks. Walks that a front mount don't fit in very well. And the second biggest issue is having a machine that can handle small, tight areas but also clear long walks that get filled in by drifting, heavy snows or the muni trucks.
> 
> I'm starting to believe there isn't going to be a one size fits all machine. I might have to adapt my thinking and crews to this and create a _game changing_ way of handling this problem.


A game changing way of handling it is....A Ventrac...Althought I have not heard much of an assessment out of JDG.....He might have givin one and I was bizzie that day


----------



## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> Would be sweet if I owned an outfront mower.
> 
> But in reality, my biggest headaches with sidewalks is small, tight walks. Walks that a front mount don't fit in very well. And the second biggest issue is having a machine that can handle small, tight areas but also clear long walks that get filled in by drifting, heavy snows or the muni trucks.
> 
> I'm starting to believe there isn't going to be a one size fits all machine. I might have to adapt my thinking and crews to this and create a _game changing_ way of handling this problem.


If only the RB-400 and an Ebling expandable had a love child...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> If only the RB-400 and an Ebling expandable had a love child...


Not understood...


----------



## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Would be sweet if I owned an outfront mower.
> 
> But in reality, my biggest headaches with sidewalks is small, tight walks. Walks that a front mount don't fit in very well. And the second biggest issue is having a machine that can handle small, tight areas but also clear long walks that get filled in by drifting, heavy snows or the muni trucks.
> 
> I'm starting to believe there isn't going to be a one size fits all machine. I might have to adapt my thinking and crews to this and create a _game changing_ way of handling this problem.


Voila....


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Defcon 5 said:


> A game changing way of handling it is....A Ventrac...Althought I have not heard much of an assessment out of JDG.....He might have givin one and I was bizzie that day


For a snow only contractor, yes I believe it has a good place. For a contractor that has restricted width walks that it fits on, I believe it has a place. For a contractor that has a need to clear long drifted areas with a blower, that are too small for a full size Ventrac, or 1025, or whatever your flavor of choice, it defiantly has a place.

We had a demo Cantstand Multiforce for a couple events this winter, and I have to believe it's similar but lacking traction to a Zplow.

My totally honest opinion is this: if you need/have Z Spray(s), and don't need the ability to broom or blow snow, put the Z Plow on it (them). If you don't already have a Cantstand Multiforce, don't waste your money on it unless you want one. If you are simply clearing sidewalks into parking spaces to be plowed away by larger machines, both of the above will do just fine. But if you need to clear areas that get drifted or city berms, they're both nearly worthless. If you don't have or need Z Sprays, and are considering a Snowrator, or the Snowrator works for you, this is definitely a machine to replace the Snowrator with.

The only way I'd buy one, is if I either had to broom/blow snow in tight/drifted areas, or if I didn't need Z Sprays for the summer. My opinion of that would be better if the drop spreader were ready, but I wouldn't pick this over a Z Spray unless at least one of those 3 conditions were met.


----------



## Kristin Stephan

Mark Oomkes said:


> Would be sweet if I owned an outfront mower.
> 
> But in reality, my biggest headaches with sidewalks is small, tight walks. Walks that a front mount don't fit in very well. And the second biggest issue is having a machine that can handle small, tight areas but also clear long walks that get filled in by drifting, heavy snows or the muni trucks.
> 
> I'm starting to believe there isn't going to be a one size fits all machine. I might have to adapt my thinking and crews to this and create a _game changing_ way of handling this problem.


Mark, agreed that there may be two different requirements out there for this. I like the GAME CHANGING term you used. If you have ideas KAGE is here to help you and others in the industry bring those to life. 
Thank you for the feedback!


----------



## cwren2472

Kristin Stephan said:


> I like the GAME CHANGING term you used.


Don't read too much into it; @Mark Oomkes sees"game changers" everywhere. That one didn't even rate "Epic"


----------



## Kristin Stephan

John_DeereGreen said:


> For a snow only contractor, yes I believe it has a good place. For a contractor that has restricted width walks that it fits on, I believe it has a place. For a contractor that has a need to clear long drifted areas with a blower, that are too small for a full size Ventrac, or 1025, or whatever your flavor of choice, it defiantly has a place.
> 
> We had a demo Cantstand Multiforce for a couple events this winter, and I have to believe it's similar but lacking traction to a Zplow.
> 
> My totally honest opinion is this: if you need/have Z Spray(s), and don't need the ability to broom or blow snow, put the Z Plow on it (them). If you don't already have a Cantstand Multiforce, don't waste your money on it unless you want one. If you are simply clearing sidewalks into parking spaces to be plowed away by larger machines, both of the above will do just fine. But if you need to clear areas that get drifted or city berms, they're both nearly worthless. If you don't have or need Z Sprays, and are considering a Snowrator, or the Snowrator works for you, this is definitely a machine to replace the Snowrator with.
> 
> The only way I'd buy one, is if I either had to broom/blow snow in tight/drifted areas, or if I didn't need Z Sprays for the summer. My opinion of that would be better if the drop spreader were ready, but I wouldn't pick this over a Z Spray unless at least one of those 3 conditions were met.


John DeereGreen,
Thanks for the well thought out feedback (i'm assuming that you're talking about the Terrain Cut here). There is no doubt that a Snowrator is more maneuverable than the Terrain Cut, and would probably do better at brushing the snow from the sidewalk down into the parking lot. How much $$ do the Snowrators go for these days?


----------



## Ajlawn1

Kristin Stephan said:


> John DeereGreen,
> Thanks for the well thought out feedback (i'm assuming that you're talking about the Terrain Cut here). There is no doubt that a Snowrator is more maneuverable than the Terrain Cut, and would probably do better at brushing the snow from the sidewalk down into the parking lot. How much $$ do the Snowrators go for these days?


9k


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Kristin Stephan said:


> John DeereGreen,
> Thanks for the well thought out feedback (i'm assuming that you're talking about the Terrain Cut here). There is no doubt that a Snowrator is more maneuverable than the Terrain Cut, and would probably do better at brushing the snow from the sidewalk down into the parking lot. How much $$ do the Snowrators go for these days?


No I was talking about the ventrac SSV.


----------



## Scotrknevl

I was lucky to buy a Snowrator ZX4 (unused) for only $6800 earlier this year from someone south of Baltimore (I am in Philadelphia). It hadn't snowed much so he sold it brand new to me with only 7 hours for $2k less then he paid in late 2016. 
Additionally, I was quoted for a Ventrac SSV with all the bells and whistles for $21K. Haven't pulled the trigger on the SSV yet but the broom is important. I like that the SSV has brine behind the unit while the ZX4 sprays in front of the unit but behind the plow. However, the ZX4 is all stainless while the SSV is not so some rust may be expected.


----------



## rick W

Anyone able to give good feedback on Ventrac SSV and the Snowrator? Just wondered out in the field how they are doing. I think i like the quality look and the ablility quickly put the broom on the SSV better but it a big spend.


----------



## FredG

rick W said:


> Anyone able to give good feedback on Ventrac SSV and the Snowrator? Just wondered out in the field how they are doing. I think i like the quality look and the ablility quickly put the broom on the SSV better but it a big spend.


 Good questions. Defcon will edumacate you on the Ventrac and AJ will do the same on the Snowrator. I don't know what consultants charge now tho.


----------



## Ajlawn1

FredG said:


> Good questions. Defcon will edumacate you on the Ventrac and AJ will do the same on the Snowrator. I don't know what consultants charge now tho.


As for the Snowrator it beats a shovel or a snowblower... But it has it's issues for sure... still alot of bugs working out last year but LT Rich promptly sent the parts to correct. The wiring is subpar for the environment. I need to redo a bunch of connections before the start of this year as they all corroded. At the time I don't believe Ventrac had a spreader and to plow and spread is a huge bonus IMO which the Snowrator could do. I think the broom is a killer option on the Ventrac for getting surfaces down to nothing and conserving salt. Does the broom have limitations on heavy, wet, deep snow...? I am sure there is a speed difference between the blade and broom also... But with blade, broom, and blower all available your options are endless with the Ventrac... I will try one here in the future most likely...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

rick W said:


> Anyone able to give good feedback on Ventrac SSV and the Snowrator? Just wondered out in the field how they are doing. I think i like the quality look and the ablility quickly put the broom on the SSV better but it a big spend.


I'll let you know in a few months regarding the SSV.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'll let you know in a few months regarding the SSV.


I'm waiting on pins and needles for your "review"


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> I'm waiting on pins and needles for your "review"


That's nice...


----------



## BossPlow2010

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'll let you know in a few months regarding the SSV.


When you bought the ssv, did you see any production rates on it?
I.e. maximum linear ft per hour plowing/ sweeping / spraying


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> When you bought the ssv, did you see any production rates on it?
> I.e. maximum linear ft per hour plowing/ sweeping / spraying


No

No

Yes


----------



## BossPlow2010

Mark Oomkes said:


> No
> 
> No
> 
> Yes


I was considering getting one, debating between that and a multi force. 
I was quoted around 13or 14 I believe for a plow


----------



## John_DeereGreen

BossPlow2010 said:


> I was considering getting one, debating between that and a multi force.
> I was quoted around 13or 14 I believe for a plow


Unless you have a legitimate need for the "year round" usage, there is no way I would buy a multiforce over an SSV.

Snowrator...well, I think LT Rich should just stick to what they do best. Building spreader sprayers...the demo we had didn't even make it through a full storm before it got parked.

Only SSV complaint any of my guys had last winter was that it bounces too much turning. Broom and plow are both fantastic, I didn't get to use the blower, but saw it in action and it works well also. A fuel injected engine would be a big plus,or at least the option, but isn't a make or break thing for me.


----------



## rick W

On this side of the border, the Snowrator with plow, salter, sprayer is in the 15-17K range. No idea on a the ventrac, likey throw on another 5 -10K Yikes! 
Kind of cool machines, i can see the labour savings and turning a crap job into easy peasy but with the talk of poor electrics, early model bugs etc is worry some just like the new fancy loaders with all the bells and whistles and sensor and switches. Cool and looks good but when the sh## hits the fans and you need your expensive stuff to work.... click...buzzz..nothing. That concerns me so just wondered what wise folks say.


----------



## BossPlow2010

John_DeereGreen said:


> Unless you have a legitimate need for the "year round" usage, there is no way I would buy a multiforce over an SSV.
> 
> Snowrator...well, I think LT Rich should just stick to what they do best. Building spreader sprayers...the demo we had didn't even make it through a full storm before it got parked.
> 
> Only SSV complaint any of my guys had last winter was that it bounces too much turning. Broom and plow are both fantastic, I didn't get to use the blower, but saw it in action and it works well also. A fuel injected engine would be a big plus,or at least the option, but isn't a make or break thing for me.


The multi force could use a mower deck and a core aerator and a blower in the off season, but then it makes me think
"Jack of all trades, master of none"

LT Rich was bought out by Toro, although he Toro acquisition of Boss, had me disappointed, so we'll see if they eff this up too.

So after all that, still leaning towards the Ventrac


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> I was considering getting one, debating between that and a multi force.
> I was quoted around 13or 14 I believe for a plow


Multiforce is garbage.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Multiforce is garbage.


Literally????


----------



## BossPlow2010

Mark Oomkes said:


> Multiforce is garbage.


All around? Or more of a Summer machine?


----------



## Ajlawn1

BossPlow2010 said:


> The multi force could use a mower deck and a core aerator and a blower in the off season, but then it makes me think
> "Jack of all trades, master of none"
> 
> LT Rich was bought out by Toro, although he Toro acquisition of Boss, had me disappointed, so we'll see if they eff this up too.
> 
> So after all that, still leaning towards the Ventrac


I will still take my Intermediate's with blades over anything I've used... Still gives you that year round use too... Sounds like Ventrac has same issues as Snowrator with hard turns due to skid type drive...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Literally????


Epically!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> All around? Or more of a Summer machine?


They're great for mowing, don't have any other attachments other than the plow...but they suck for plowing.


----------



## BossPlow2010

Mark Oomkes said:


> They're great for mowing, don't have any other attachments other than the plow...but they suck for plowing.


Understood


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> All around? Or more of a Summer machine?


Do you have a need for a Zspray?


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Ajlawn1 said:


> I will still take my Intermediate's with blades over anything I've used... Still gives you that year round use too... Sounds like Ventrac has same issues as Snowrator with hard turns due to skid type drive...


The bouncing is almost dangerous unless you're prepared for it. I'd really like to try a Z plow, but I don't really care for the thought of putting our Z sprays out in the winter.


----------



## BossPlow2010

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do you have a need for a Zspray?


I don't currently offer fert and squirt, and I don't have plans to add it for at least a few more years.
So I don't have a need for a z spray at this time.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> I don't currently offer fert and squirt, and I don't have plans to add it for at least a few more years.
> So I don't have a need for a z spray at this time.


K


----------



## Ajlawn1

John_DeereGreen said:


> The bouncing is almost dangerous unless you're prepared for it. I'd really like to try a Z plow, but I don't really care for the thought of putting our Z sprays out in the winter.


Hence the teather on the Snowrator.... One guy in town immediately got rid of his thought they were too dangerous...
Zsprays just seem a hell of a lot faster and hold a s*** ton of salt...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ajlawn1 said:


> Hence the teather on the Snowrator.... One guy in town immediately got rid of his thought they were too dangerous...
> Zsprays just seem a hell of a lot faster and hold a s*** ton of salt...


Excellent use of the word "hence"! Thumbs Up


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Ajlawn1 said:


> Hence the teather on the Snowrator.... One guy in town immediately got rid of his thought they were too dangerous...
> Zsprays just seem a hell of a lot faster and hold a s*** ton of salt...


The SSV has a safety switch in the platform, and I questioned why until I ran it once. Then it became pretty clear.

The snowrator was worse in my opinion. Wings on the SSV plow would rock.


----------



## rick W

Just looking at sidewalk machines on line... came across this. Funny


----------



## EWSplow

rick W said:


> Just looking at sidewalk machines on line... came across this. Funny


That thing didn't spin, or bog down. 
No OSHA up there, aye.


----------



## Mr.Markus

rick W said:


> Just looking at sidewalk machines on line... came across this. Funny


That triggered a memory of my dad doing our 1/2 km of driveway... Open cab but I had totally forgotten about the ski Doo helmet ..


----------



## smz89

We use two terex RO7OT


----------



## Rattlesnake89

So I know this thread is a little bit older, but we have two Snowrators, and this year makes for the beginning of their third seasons, so I figured I'd post our experience with them.

We started with wheeler's and snow blowers, and our primary snow removal is residential HOAs. The wheelers are fast, but everything is manual, so not the most efficient but good anyhow. We got our first Snowrator and after the first storm we immediately bought a second one. Obviously, we got the early ones and YES, MANY little problems, especially Wiring corrosion. Both controllers failed for the salters by beginning of the second season. Angling ram mount on the plow broke on one of them, and the main Wiring harness plug corroded out on one and is barely hanging on, on the other one. I'm handy and also our shop guy so all small things for me. But if you don't have the equipment, (welder, grinder, electrical know how, etc) I would not have recommended these machines.

HOWEVER, since BOSS(Toro) bought them out, we simply had to register them with BOSS and they sent us out free of charge new Salter controllers and complete plow assemblies to correct the problems with them. All things considered, I'd buy them again in a heartbeat, and we're even considering getting another one or two next season. Our local boss dealer here is awesome to work with and they are now simple to get parts for.

One problem we have had, and I'm fixing this today actually, is sometimes our bags of ice melt will have rock hard clumps of ice melt that will jam in the spreader. I'm currently welding the frame, but I'm making a drop in screen from expanded metal that will also serve as a platform to set bags on while cutting them open. I'm curious if anyone else has had this problem. I'll post some pictures of it.


----------



## GrassManKzoo

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do you have a need for a Zspray?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

GrassManKzoo said:


> View attachment 199812


I have one...actually this is my second.


----------



## GrassManKzoo

Better than that multi force junk?
Think that setup would work on a Steel Green?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

GrassManKzoo said:


> Better than that multi force junk?
> Think that setup would work on a Steel Green?


Absolutely

Eric has already set up at least one SG.


----------



## Rattlesnake89




----------



## Rattlesnake89

I'll let you guys know how well these work for us when we get to use them again. If anyone is interested in these let me know. I can send over dimensions and pics, or maybe even make them for you.


----------



## Green mentorship

Mark Oomkes said:


> Absolutely
> 
> Eric has already set up at least one SG.


He did 2 steel greens for me this fall.


----------



## Lone Wolf Ent

oxcar3 said:


> Looking at machines for sidewalks. Don't realy want to spend $35000 on a Ventrac.
> What's everyone using?


JD 1445 4wd, cab blower on front and Ventrac drop spreader on back,


----------



## p0wd3rp1l0t

main sidewalk machine:
JD 2025R tractor with Radials(unbelievable traction). mauser cab(which is awesome) 47" modded JD blower. fits down all 4 foot sidewalks. 5' back blade cut down to 50" which angled is about 48 and fits nicely behind the tractor. got tired of breaking back blades so we designed one so it now trips when it hits a crack or curb or manhole. 1" or less snowfalls back blade does all the work. only down fall is the crap JD blower. wish they made a commercial version of it. love this machine. head and shoulders above our old machine

backup sidewalk machine
JD 1025R tractor with turfs. curtis cab(good but not great). 47" blower with 4' backblade. 1100 hrs on this setup


----------



## Cooter24

p0wd3rp1l0t said:


> main sidewalk machine:
> JD 2025R tractor with Radials(unbelievable traction). mauser cab(which is awesome) 47" modded JD blower. fits down all 4 foot sidewalks. 5' back blade cut down to 50" which angled is about 48 and fits nicely behind the tractor. got tired of breaking back blades so we designed one so it now trips when it hits a crack or curb or manhole. 1" or less snowfalls back blade does all the work. only down fall is the crap JD blower. wish they made a commercial version of it. love this machine. head and shoulders above our old machine
> 
> backup sidewalk machine
> JD 1025R tractor with turfs. curtis cab(good but not great). 47" blower with 4' backblade. 1100 hrs on this setup


What's the mods for the 47 blower? We bolt heavy rubber the the impeller that just touches the housing and chucks snow like well. A lot better.


----------



## Plow Masters

I've owned and operated many machines for commercial sidewalks over the past 12 years and nothing beats a 4x4 garden tractor with a 52" or 48" broom for snow under 6" and a 48" snow blower for when it's over 6". I Currently own a JD x738 with a heated cab and a drop spreader. It's gravy. I hardly get out to shovel or scrape. Myself or one employee alone can handle 25 commercial properties every night alone. (roughly 25kms of sidewalk or 16 miles)

However, if I had to buy a new machine I would likely get a Kubota or Massey Ferguson as I've had several small issues with the JD and I also realized after purchasing that it is much more expensive than all other brands. I also would never get a machine without a heated cab any more. it drops to below -30C (-22F) some days here and I feel like the abominable snow man with 20 layers on trying to stay warm on the tractor.

I've owned several BCS walk behinds, which are great machines but they are half the speed of a ride on and they don't drop salt.

I test drove a ventrac for 2 snowfalls and they aren't wide enough for most sidewalks so I have to double the amount of passes I'm making. The only benefit to these is the broom can rotate backwards, so the few places I do by hand now I could almost entirely do with the ventrac but it would still need a shovel to clean up the edges.

I've owned 2, 2wd garden tractors with winch lifts on the brooms. They were annoying as the chains regularly needed fixing and the winch lift and manual tilt often gave me troubles. I've found that hydraulic controls is the way to go.

I also have several toro 821C snow throwers and they can't be beat for small properties. they are very cost effective and get right down to the pavement. Can be thrown in the back of a pickup, and are very quick and maneuverable.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Plow Masters said:


> I test drove a ventrac for 2 snowfalls and they aren't wide enough for most sidewalks so I have to double the amount of passes I'm making. The only benefit to these is the broom can rotate backwards, so the few places I do by hand now I could almost entirely do with the ventrac but it would still need a shovel to clean up the edges.


Not sure which Ventrac you tried, but that is what I thought about the SSV initially.

Then I got to thinking about how often we clear walks during the day. And how many times cars are parked over the walks, reducing the width to less than the normal 5'. Which leaves us hand shoveling and salting walks while our ZPlow sat unused in the truck.

It was this point that I realized that I didn't mind the 36" width. And the first time out, the operator cut 25% off her time compared to the ZPlow. Despite having to make 2 passes on walks.


----------



## Mr.Markus

If you hit the cars word gets out and they eventually stop parking over the sidewalk


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Mr.Markus said:


> If you hit the cars word gets out and they eventually stop parking over the sidewalk


Does this work while plowing lots also?


----------



## Plow Masters

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not sure which Ventrac you tried, but that is what I thought about the SSV initially.
> 
> Then I got to thinking about how often we clear walks during the day. And how many times cars are parked over the walks, reducing the width to less than the normal 5'. Which leaves us hand shoveling and salting walks while our ZPlow sat unused in the truck.
> 
> It was this point that I realized that I didn't mind the 36" width. And the first time out, the operator cut 25% off her time compared to the ZPlow. Despite having to make 2 passes on walks.


Yeah it was the SSV. We only do commercial/industrial so typically all the cars are gone when we are out during the night and I don't have those issues. But several years ago I used to use a 30" BCS sweeper to do condos where cars were often in the way and I would agree that the SSV would be more useful in those situations. However I still think the price point is way to high. If it were closer to the price point of a ZT or WB mower, then that would be way more acceptable.


----------



## paul legg

Hey 

I use an atv with a 50'' plow to get around - fast and easy to use ( down side is you get cold ) up side you don't have to pay or train someone a lot to use like a small tractor or bob cat


----------



## MartyJ3d

Just starting into this stuff... Have an ATV with a plow, and a new creation - a Husqvarna RZ4824 zero turn mower which I have modified to have a hydraulic pump driven by the mower belt, and that powers either a 42" brush on the back, or a 42" snow blower on the front. It also fits the ATV plow on the front. It has two seats so you can face either direction. At this moment, the rotary broom and plow have been tested, the snowblower implement is 80% completed. End of this week probably.


----------



## EWSplow

MartyJ3d said:


> Just starting into this stuff... Have an ATV with a plow, and a new creation - a Husqvarna RZ4824 zero turn mower which I have modified to have a hydraulic pump driven by the mower belt, and that powers either a 42" brush on the back, or a 42" snow blower on the front. It also fits the ATV plow on the front. It has two seats so you can face either direction. At this moment, the rotary broom and plow have been tested, the snowblower implement is 80% completed. End of this week probably.


Pics please.


----------



## MartyJ3d

Lousy photos, but you get the idea. There is a large caster at the rear that helps support the weight of the brush. There are two electric actuators that adjust its position. They are strong enough to lift the rear wheels off the ground when fully extended. The plow is on it in the photos - the snow blower will replace that shortly. The hydraulic pump is mounted under the seat where the battery normally fits. There are no control valves, the hydraulic pump comes on with the electric clutch that normally runs the mower deck.


----------



## DeVries

What's the bar stool for


----------



## Ajlawn1

DeVries said:


> What's the bar stool for


To run it in reverse and see the broom in back...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I guess if it works....but dang that looks like a lot of engineering and work.


----------



## MartyJ3d

Mark Oomkes said:


> I guess if it works....but dang that looks like a lot of engineering and work.


Well, I am kinda retired, so this is like a hobby engineering challenge. And, I have just under $5k in the machine.


----------



## EWSplow

You'll have to upload a picture or video of this machine in action when you get a chance to use it. 
You may want to configure a cup holder or 2 on the bar stool.


----------



## MartyJ3d

EWSplow said:


> You'll have to upload a picture or video of this machine in action when you get a chance to use it.
> You may want to configure a cup holder or 2 on the bar stool.


I was thinking about having a dancing girl sit there while I pl... oh nevermind.


----------



## Ajlawn1

EWSplow said:


> or video of this machine in action when you get a chance to use it.


What are you the new WhizzPenn...


----------



## Gr8WhiteNorth

Unit we are working on. Exmark Staris with a plow and a liquid tank


----------



## Ajlawn1

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> Unit we are working on. Exmark Staris with a plow and a liquid tank
> View attachment 209365
> View attachment 209366


Swap those turfs out in the rear for some knobbly's, you'll have much better pushing power....


----------



## MartyJ3d

So, I have been wanting to post a video of my machine in action. Would be nice if we had some snow, otherwise you would have to imagine its existence. We haven't had a plow day here in 2021.


----------



## WIPensFan

MartyJ3d said:


> So, I have been wanting to post a video of my machine in action. Would be nice if we had some snow, otherwise you would have to imagine its existence. We haven't had a plow day here in 2021.


Too bad... I wanted you to show @Ajlawn1 how it was done.


----------



## BossPlow2010

WIPensFan said:


> Too bad... I wanted you to show @Ajlawn1 how it was done.


Just let the wind blow the snow off....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Lots of snow here...


----------



## WIPensFan

#MeToo!


----------



## MartyJ3d

I've got grass... We usually get 60" of snow







I think we are at about 8" for the season at my house.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Lots of snow here...
> 
> View attachment 213121


That's a serious tow mirror...


----------



## WIPensFan

MartyJ3d said:


> I've got grass... We usually get 60" of snow
> View attachment 213124
> I think we are at about 8" for the season at my house.


Yikes! Oh well, maybe next year.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ajlawn1 said:


> That's a serious tow mirror...


I know...


----------



## MartyJ3d

So, we finally got a little more snow...and I made a video....Link to video


----------



## Western1

Sweet


----------



## WIPensFan

MartyJ3d said:


> So, we finally got a little more snow...and I made a video....Link to video


Thanks for posting a video. Would be wayy better if second person helped video, or set up camera to show the machine in action. Can't see what's going on with camera mounted at that point.


----------



## MartyJ3d

WIPensFan said:


> Thanks for posting a video. Would be wayy better if second person helped video, or set up camera to show the machine in action. Can't see what's going on with camera mounted at that point.


No doubt. I will likely do another, but since our snow is gone and there is nothing in the forecast, you will have to mentally combine the two to see how it works.


----------



## WIPensFan

MartyJ3d said:


> No doubt. I will likely do another, but since our snow is gone and there is nothing in the forecast, you will have to mentally combine the two to see how it works.


I can't mentally do anything...


----------



## STARSHIP

MartyJ3d said:


> So, we finally got a little more snow...and I made a video....Link to video


Looks like it works pretty good for you. What blower is that, and what are the hydraulic flow rates? And it looks like you possibly put a broom on that?


----------



## MartyJ3d

STARSHIP said:


> Looks like it works pretty good for you. What blower is that, and what are the hydraulic flow rates? And it looks like you possibly put a broom on that?


The blower is a generic 42" unit - branded Husqvarna. It was designed to fit lawn tractors with belt drive and the long handles for turning and raising. The hydraulic pump is 1.16 cid and will put out 18gpm at 3600 engine rpm. I mounted a hydraulic motor on the blower and used its belt drive input. The rotor turns about 1000 rpm. I fabricated the electric chute turning system - starting with an automotive seat adjusting motor.

I am setting it up to use standard 2" trailer hitch attachments on both ends. It now fits a snow plow as well as the snow blower. The rotary broom is now being adapted as well. I also expect to add a salt spreader that will fit the 2" receiver.

As something of a bonus...it also powers my log splitter faster than the auxiliary hydraulics on my Kubota L39.


----------

