# Guys Help Here Michigan ???



## cobra333 (Nov 28, 2006)

I Want To Stay Even With My Guys In Michigan Please Tell Me What We Are Charging .. Iam Not A Rat Or A Low Baller .... F--- That ... Help Here Guys With 

What To Charge For Plowing Residential ...... And Commercial Which Way Should I Approach This By Push Or By Inch ... ???? IN MICHIGAN 


I Doing This The Right Way By Asking Not A New Guy Just Low Balling ..


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## cobra333 (Nov 28, 2006)

*Bump This*

Bump This For Real Michigan Guys


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## snoking (Jul 4, 2002)

200 for the season. no sidewalks. plow once every 24 hrs. one return trip to clean end of drive if needed.


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## cobra333 (Nov 28, 2006)

THANKS ERIK FOR YOUR HONESTY ...... but no sidewalks ,,,, why


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## Proscapez LLC (Aug 9, 2006)

Thats way to cheap for my blood. 
I have to pay for my truck, plow, insurance, gen liabilty insurance, gas and my time. No way I could live with that little bit of money.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

30 to 35 dollars for a standard subdivision drive here, and 125 an hour for commercials with a basic truck and blade.

Salt is going for 2 times cost applied as I understand it.

200 a season???? In Muskegon? Holy crap. Thats some lowballin there my friend.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Thats the good price. Not saying youll get the jobs with it though with Mr 200 a season and guys like him lurking and bringing this industry down.

I can tell you this much. The prices are not going up. They are more competitive than ever and going down.


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## Proscapez LLC (Aug 9, 2006)

the guy I replaced from last year was charging $125 per push at my resturants, 
I'm getting $140. it just how you sell yourself. lol and a he77 of a lot of luck.


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## cobra333 (Nov 28, 2006)

*should i forget sidewalks*

should i forget sidewalks and just plow and salt and sand or do i charge more for sidewalks for 30 - 35 dollars michigan HELP HERE MICHIGAN GUYS


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

You do what you want and what the client wants, but when I sell snow removal its for a "Complete" job.

My prices include all areas....walks, porches and driveways.

Unless the client wants it done a different way then I accomodate them, and adjust my price if necesaary or possible.


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## jcesar (Sep 14, 2006)

Sell the customer, what they want. But only sell what you are able to do. If they want complete with sidewalks done, then bid accordingly. If not, then drop a couple bucks off it.
Not sure of how everyone in Michigan does it, as we all do it differently, but to try and stay competitive, maybe do a member search, and see who is in your immediate area, and try to set up with them for help. After all, if everyone in the same market, stays together, it can be prosperous for all.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

I don't think anyone can get on the internet and ask what should I charge???

The cost of living varies across the US, just as the cost of plowing - there are so many factors.

There's another post on here suggesting charging $250 for a .2 mile private drive - in my area you'd plow NOTHING at that rate but whatever.

The Mr 200 driveway man, is he wrong?? Have you critics been to Muskegon?? Do you know what the drives look like?? Is he driving right past the place and just considering it extra money??

Look, I do some drives for 275 per year, 10 for 120 per year.. Am I wrong, a lowballer?? All I 'll say is the math works out. 

The only residential I'll do is within blocks of a comercial route - I wouldn't offer it period but it's a good way to keep your business name out there and considered paid advertising..................


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

framer1901;327992 said:


> The Mr 200 driveway man, is he wrong?? Have you critics been to Muskegon?? Do you know what the drives look like?? Is he driving right past the place and just considering it extra money??
> .


Taking into consideration that the average snowfall for Muskegon is 96.1 inches a year Id say yes.

No wait. Id say Hell Yes.


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## snoking (Jul 4, 2002)

225 drives per night 1 driver, 200 ea. per year...45,000 dollars a year your making money hand over fist, some around me are less aroung 175 per year some are as high as 300....

i simply dont offer shoveling, if they calland ask me to shovel i send them to a buddy of mine, be full service if you want

as far as being told im a lowballer....my profit margins are the same as yours, i can just get ot down twice as fast with less equipment. for example my 1/2 ton truck has a 9' front board not a 7.5 so it covers more area right away, 1 tons with 17 foot backbades...2 one tons can do a superwalmart in 45 mins with 3 inches of snow.... thats gettin it done

the person had a good question be cause hes starting out, i told him what works for me and now ive said why, why dont you try to help him out, so that maybe he will do well enough to help some one else, instead of bashing soem one you dont even know....free enterprise...its a b'''''   :yow!:


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Hey if you want to plow 96 inches of snow for 200 bucks you can have it.

Im glad you dont live around me with those prices, and that kind of work.

And if you didn't notice. The kid decided to give his accounts away, and not be in this business.

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=328396#post328396

And do you really expect me to believe you do 225 drives a night by yourself? If you worked 24 hours straight thats one drive every six minutes.

12 hours is one drive every three minutes.

With No stopping.

lol....right.

I may have been born at night, but I wasn't born Last night.


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## snoking (Jul 4, 2002)

how long does it take to plow a drive??....


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Not to sound too critical, but to do a good job? Longer than you can afford to spend on it, and I understand Muskegon isnt a terribly wealthy area, especially the heights, but your prices, while in line with your competition or there abouts make glad I'm not from Muskegon.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

I didn't have to dig to deep for an example, couple nites ago, 4-6" of lake effect snow, one driver in 75 minutes billed $180 - no one should look at a driveway = $35 - oh and there isn't any slop there.

In Muskegon, you could do a drive in 5 minutes including drive time all freakin night - set up with a back blade and maybe knock even more time off. I don't think their street lights go blinking or it'd be even faster.............

To me, it's all about the route, if I'm driving right past your place, hell yea I'll plow it for 15 bucks (if it's a city straight drive) - I'll get it done in just a bit more time than someone sits at a traffic light.

Another thing, all driveways ain't the same, straight 50 to 80 foot long by 12 foot wide drives for $35 in this area and you'd starve. Those type drives are done in two minutes and you're movin on..........................

I gotta go to work and spread some salt, I'm soooooo money needy from the few "cheap" drives I do..................


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Sounds like a fast food business to me. Ill stick to the 40/50 dollar jobs that take ten minutes thanks.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

LLM - No offense, but you have how many accounts??? Oh yea, you sub for someone too............... You must have loads of them 40-50/ten minute deals LOL 

Let's take into account to, you plow what ten times per year?? By tomorrow afternoon, we'll have done half your season............

Do this for a period of time and get back with me...........

Workin for someone for 25 years gives you the impression you have it all, start payin the bills and you'll really see the light...............


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## kingplow (Oct 12, 2006)

LLM Ann Arbor;325941 said:


> 30 to 35 dollars for a standard subdivision drive here, and 125 an hour for commercials with a basic truck and blade.
> 
> Salt is going for 2 times cost applied as I understand it.
> 
> 200 a season???? In Muskegon? Holy crap. Thats some lowballin there my friend.


dont let this guy fool anyone he inflates his prices to double on this site we sub out 3 backhoes with 16 foot blades and they only get 115 hour when we sub out pickups they get 68 hour with standard 8 footer i dont know where this guy is working but if he thinks he gets those prices he's not in michigan


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## Lynch & Sons Landscapin (Sep 5, 2006)

*Dead On*

Your right. That is why he is always on here instead of working, spending his time insulting someone in every post he makes and criticizing not only the prices people charge, but the equipment they use, and the way they handle their business. For someone that is so right, to criticize everyone else, I seem to remember a post recently along the lines of not being able to find enough work. hmmm.... Perhaps some of the people on here other than him have figured out how to make money and run a successful business. Maybe once in awhile it would behoove him to spend more time listening than trash talking. Just my humble opinion.


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## Snoflo (Dec 4, 2006)

Oh my this is one hot thread to stumble on.....LOL around the Detroit area no one in the residential city neighborhoods will pay more than $25.00 per household. The aparent average for plowing commercial is 105.00 to 140.00 per hour and usually based for seasonal at 10 pushes for season....salt is a range from 100.00-160.00 per yard or ton spread.


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## Snoflo (Dec 4, 2006)

kingplow;330283 said:


> dont let this guy fool anyone he inflates his prices to double on this site we sub out 3 backhoes with 16 foot blades and they only get 115 hour when we sub out pickups they get 68 hour with standard 8 footer i dont know where this guy is working but if he thinks he gets those prices he's not in michigan


We also sub out usually nine subs per season and we are on the higher end of pay for subs at $75.00 per hour for those subs who have been with us for three years. Average is at $65.00 per hour around here.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Lynch & Sons Landscaping LLC;331948 said:


> Your right. That is why he is always on here instead of working, spending his time insulting someone in every post he makes and criticizing not only the prices people charge, but the equipment they use, and the way they handle their business. For someone that is so right, to criticize everyone else, I seem to remember a post recently along the lines of not being able to find enough work. hmmm.... Perhaps some of the people on here other than him have figured out how to make money and run a successful business. Maybe once in awhile it would behoove him to spend more time listening than trash talking. Just my humble opinion.


I've been in business a year and will make just under 1000 for a 2 inch event. Im fine on Snow work if it will snow.

Dont worry about me.

But if you want to support a guy that charges 200 a year on an average snowfall of 97 inches. Go for it.

I wonder what your successful business charges.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

kingplow;330283 said:


> dont let this guy fool anyone he inflates his prices to double on this site we sub out 3 backhoes with 16 foot blades and they only get 115 hour when we sub out pickups they get 68 hour with standard 8 footer i dont know where this guy is working but if he thinks he gets those prices he's not in michigan


Backhoes with 16 foot box blades get you 115 an hour?

wow.....thats pretty cheap.

Or your drivers are slow.

Or you work for US Maint, or all of the above.

Thats not going rate for that piece of equipment around my area.


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## Snoroller (Dec 9, 2006)

I know this thread is pretty much wrapped up but I just found this site last night and after reading this and a few other threads I guess I need to toss in my two cents. Anyone asking about pricing and how they should charge needs to do two things. 

First, call around to other contractors and ask what they charge. Have them give you an estimate on your property or another property that you are familiar with and use that info as a guide. Also, some will just straight out give you a price per hour. I personally don't do season, prepaid or anything like that. The way our weather has gone around West Michigan, one way the customer gets screwed and the other way the contractor does. We charge per drive or per lot with some really large ones that are hourly. Some accounts want to be kept clean no matter what every morning, others want it at the normal 2", 4" etc. Rates around my area in muskegon are hurt by the "uninsured, guy with a rusted truck and plow, cash under the table" type of situation. My cousin over in Oakland County makes $75 an hour as a sub. Muskegon County subs are around $25 - $30. You can drive about a half hour away and get an extra $10 or more an hour. I choose not to so that I can advertise with my trucks in the area I service during the other months of the year, as well as service those same customers. If any of us in the lake effect snow counties, especially Ottawa, Muskegon, and Oceana didn't drop our blade for less than $50 + an hour then nobody would ever plow. Yes, that would make a great statement that we are underpaid but it won't change what needs to be done. Most loader work goes for $130 or so an hour.

Second, use your own judgement as to what it is worth to you. Your time, gas, maintenance on your truck and plow (and ask anyone, shocks, springs, axle joints, transmissions, etc add up) and any other overhead you have need to be considered. This is an understatement but don't be the low bid everytime. Reputation among other local contractors goes a long way too. It may get you a few extra bucks for the holiday but if you are going to do it at all, commit and do it right. Sell yourself and your company and negotiate or match other bids. Don't sell yourself short. 

As for salt, pretty much standard, double your supply cost. 

From what I can see, Snoking is not lowballing around here. His prices are standard to my knowledge. We don't do seasonal and all my customers and prospective customers are fine with that. It works out better. Residentials have potential to make more per hour but commercials take more than double the number of plows so they are both a crucial part of the business plan. Communication with both prospective and current customers is the key to all of it. Keep them happy and you will be too. It's each persons choice before he goes into business for himself whether the pay is good enough to make work in his area. Around here, if you can make those prices work, then rock on. I'm ok with competition. It's healthy for all of us.

I feel much better now.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

All can say is Im glad I dont live in Muskegon or Fenton and I hope and pray that trend and price structure doesn't move east, or south, respectively.

It sounds to me like, because you get so much snow, everyone does it, and thats why prices are what they are, because they've consistently been driven down because there is too much competition. Sure....economy and demographics matter, but at some point, Id have to bet that prices were not that low in that area.

Id like to think that.


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## Lynch & Sons Landscapin (Sep 5, 2006)

*Pricing*

I am not condoning $200 per season, nor is that what we charge. Simply commenting on the fact that every post you make is simply negative, with absolutely no substantiated advice whatsoever. You seem well intentioned, and I am not trying to call you names or slam you. Would just be nice to word things in a way that gives advice and encourages others, instead of insulting and badgering everyone for everything. There is always more than one way to say something. You may have great advice to give, it just doesn't come out like that. Instead, it comes out as ignorant and arrogant and a part of me doesn't believe that is your intention, at least I hope not.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Thanks Lynch. Negativity is an issue I deal with and am trying to, and getting better at the opposite.

Combine a decent understanding of these busineses. Green and white, with 25 years experience in the green industry, and maybe too much confidence, and a lack of good communication skills and well....Somtimes I come off badly and present myself poorly online

I hear ya.

Im not in denial, but change takes time.


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## ECS (Nov 11, 2005)

LLM, instead of posting as many posts as you do, just try reading them, sitting back and thinking about them, analyze them and see what the people are really trying to tell you. Then take your time and write out a well thought answer, either agreeing or have enough facts to show them they are wrong, not just assumptions and feelings of the way you think it should be.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ECS;332862 said:


> LLM, instead of posting as many posts as you do, just try reading them, sitting back and thinking about them, analyze them and see what the people are really trying to tell you. Then take your time and write out a well thought answer, either agreeing or have enough facts to show them they are wrong, not just assumptions and feelings of the way you think it should be.


ECS, I hope it works better for you than it did for me. He just won't LISTEN.

Lynch, you're dead on right.


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## Quality1 (Nov 7, 2005)

Sno roller , you must not know who you are talking about here. The sno king is king ding of Muskegon county. Hell the last storm I think I saw his mulch blower truck out plowing lots.


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## snoking (Jul 4, 2002)

Quality1..hopefully you are who you portray, because all i have to say is game on....i know everything abou your company, how much salt you drop and where, the broken equipment, your time frames, subs, prices, straight from your employee over the last two years, tid bits here and there, i know the stories, and i have recordings of the shady stuff with the county work you do and with the mall....just to mention a couple, i may not be able to do your work or handle it all...but i will do everything to make you lose it...

ive never said a bad word publicly about you....thanks to a bank and my ex-business partner i have no debt no bills no payments....so you can go after all my stuff i dont have to plow, thats whats nice of having 4 companies, 


so makes the cracks all you want, say what you will i dont care, it doesnt even piss me off....im smiling thinking about how much fun this will be

ill be in your back pocket be froe you know it and you wont know how long ive been there when you do find out....



to the rest of plowsite, i apologize that my competion brought this here. i look forward to talking with everyone else here,


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## snoking (Jul 4, 2002)

snoroller, thanks. i assume we may know each other??....if not dont be a stranger, i dont step on feet unless mine have been stepped on,....always good to know who you passing at 2am....


Erik


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Wow, catfight. This should be good.

JMO from about 45 miles away, $200 for a season on a driveway is ridiculous. I wouldn't even look out the window for that with the seasonal average you guys get in Muskegon.


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## jerry andersen (Oct 21, 2006)

DING,DING 

lets get it on!




this is going to be good


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## alternative (Jan 26, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;338194 said:


> Wow, catfight. This should be good.
> 
> JMO from about 45 miles away, $200 for a season on a driveway is ridiculous. I wouldn't even look out the window for that with the seasonal average you guys get in Muskegon.


Ditto, I wouldnt even be in Michigan in the winter if thats all I could make..


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## popov_plow (Jan 28, 2006)

LLM Ann Arbor;332469 said:


> All can say is Im glad I dont live in Muskegon or Fenton and I hope and pray that trend and price structure doesn't move east, or south, respectively.
> 
> It sounds to me like, because you get so much snow, everyone does it, and thats why prices are what they are, because they've consistently been driven down because there is too much competition. Sure....economy and demographics matter, but at some point, Id have to bet that prices were not that low in that area.
> 
> Id like to think that.


Think again, I don't know about muskegon, but in Fenton (or any of the burbs of Flint-town) there's no way in hell you'd be able to charge $35 for a basic driveway. The last few years it been like hitting the jackpot if you could find a customer who could afford $20-$25 for a small driveway. People would just pick up the shovel and do it themselves for free or pay the neighbor kids $5 to do it for them (those little bastards are some REAL lowballers). Yah, I wouldn't commit to $200/season either, but at the same time I've never heard of anybody getting paid $50 to operate a snowplow for 10 minutes (not trying to slam you but things don't work that way here). I'd say 50% of businesses around here have their own equipment and take care of it themselves and the other 50% have hundreds of bids to choose from. tons of trucks out here they all work for cheap.


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

snoking;325761 said:


> 200 for the season. no sidewalks. plow once every 24 hrs. one return trip to clean end of drive if needed.


200 for the season?

Here I thought guys that were charging $450 were cheap!

I guess if your just doing the driveway, but still... Where you live gets ALOT more snow than us on the eastside of the state.


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