# gas or diesel pros and cons



## snowsniper1 (Nov 26, 2006)

what are the pros and cons


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## rtm038 (Jan 23, 2002)

I've only plowed with diesels, so my response will be pretty one-sided, but here goes.

Pros of diesel:
1. Usually come equipped with dual batteries from the factory
2. Tend to be more "robust" in terms of durability- not to say there aren't any well-built gas engines out there
3. Slightly more fuel efficient over gas, but it's been my experience that once you put any engine to "work", especially pushing around hundreds of pounds of wet snow, fuel mileage decreases over just driving around.
4. Some diesels get larger alternators than their gas counterparts
5. Front axle weight ratings tend to be greater with the diesel option
6. Many diesels come standard with larger transmission coolers.'
7. Diesels generate lots of torque which is always nice

Cons of diesel:
1. Heavy engine weight (900-1100 pounds with fluids) can sometimes work against you because of the extreme weight difference between the front and rear- especially when you have an 800-1000 pound plow hanging off the front.
2. Sometimes getting a diesel started in very cold temps can be an issue, but that seems to be a thing of the past with newest generation of diesels

I'm sure there's a bunch of Pros & Cons I'm missing, but these are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Ryan


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*diesel vs gas*

I have had both sense 1994. I still have diesel and gas rigs. If you have a rig that you need the power a larger diesel engine gives you buy it. If you don't need that big of a truck buy a gas engine.

When a diesel has a mechanical problem you must find a diesel mechanic. They cost more than a gas engine mechanic. I do not have the tools or equipment to work on a lot of diesel engine problems. The $5,000 cost for the diesel engine you will never make up in fuel savings. The oil changes on diesel take 3 gallons vs 6 qts in gas engines. Diesel filters cost more than gas. The one diesel has a filter on the coolant, that is added cost. Repair parts cost more for the diesel. Not as many fueling stations sell diesel. Diesel is higher in price than gasoline. One drop of diesel will make you stink for 3 hours if you get it on your cloths. That is truck driver cologne! (little humor here)

Ya sure do feel manly when you have all that diesel noise going on!

If ya have $5,000 to spend and need the power buy diesel. If ya don't buy gas.


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

Diesel all the way, longer engine life, better mileage,less maintenence,way more low end power. We own isuzu,kubota and international diesels, they are all good engines!:salute:


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## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

Just to add a couple con points to each

Diesel 
- Longer to warm up, and oil is really thick cold, so you really need to warm them up
- Alot louder, if your parking in a resi area, and have to warm the truck up at 3 am, some house near you may not be happy.
- More power of course (Not a con)
- Heavier engine, by specs limits plow weight on front, but most times thats not important.
- Parts / repairs can be and most times are more expensive, and harder to find someone that knows them well. For example we change fuel filter yearly in gas and Diesel, and the Diesel cost about 3 times as much.
- fuel cost I can only speak of here, but gas goes up and down, Diesel stays about the same, so you always know.
- And I think you have to get alot of use in the truck to make it worth the extra cost.
- cold starts can be hard

Gas
- Less power
- High fuel usage on average I would say
- Will not last as long on average.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Another con of a diesel is they are generally $6000-$7000 more.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

If your looking to plow with it as well your limited to the types of plows you can use as a friend of mine just found out. He has a 05 Dodge with a Cummins Turbo and he wanted a 8ft Western in the worst way but the dealer would not even touch it or sell him one. Then he went to our local Fisher dealer where they would sell him one but not install it. He finally ended up going with a Blizzard 8ft From Jerre's our local Blizzard dealer. His truck is a crew cab, long bed and I think that had a lot to do with it as well. We kicked around the diesel but IMO, it wasn't worth the extra 5k. Our 5.4L has plenty of power for what we tow and push, plus with a Super Chip we are getting there will be plenty more power.


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## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

Brian Young;327870 said:


> If your looking to plow with it as well your limited to the types of plows you can use as a friend of mine just found out. He has a 05 Dodge with a Cummins Turbo and he wanted a 8ft Western in the worst way but the dealer would not even touch it or sell him one. Then he went to our local Fisher dealer where they would sell him one but not install it. He finally ended up going with a Blizzard 8ft From Jerre's our local Blizzard dealer. His truck is a crew cab, long bed and I think that had a lot to do with it as well. We kicked around the diesel but IMO, it wasn't worth the extra 5k. Our 5.4L has plenty of power for what we tow and push, plus with a Super Chip we are getting there will be plenty more power.


Do you haul with the 5.4L?


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Bruce'sEx;327963 said:


> Do you haul with the 5.4L?


Yes, but nothing huge. We haul a 8.5x16ft enclosed trailer and about another 2500-3000lb worth of equipment, plus a dump insert coming this spring.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Unless I was towing extreme weight Id never even consider it.

The only guys I know that have diesels are guys that tow 30 or 40 foot enclosed car haulers, and some of those trucks are top kicks or heavy trucks too.

But for a pickup or a dually? No thanks.

To mee it generally screams mid life crisis, or some over compensation for having a small hoo ha or never getting to drive a Big Rig.


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*midlife chrisis*

LLM quote

"To mee it generally screams mid life crisis, or some over compensation for having a small hoo ha or never getting to drive a Big Rig."

Is that what I am going through? hehehehe  Don't let this midlife crisis stop... I am having to much fun.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Just dont put pipes on it. I have some dude lives around the block with a Dodge 3500 diesel with some pipes and it sounds horrible and its annoying every time he drives past.

I notice you didn't choose the small Hoo ha option.

Busted!

heh....


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## ECS (Nov 11, 2005)

When I bought my diesel, the fuel was roughly 40 cents a gallon cheaper, I wanted a diesel anyway, and I had a horse & trailer to pull. The price for my new 2500 diesel was $8k cheaper than any gas engine truck around here. Sure I had to drive 500 miles to get it, but was worth the trip. I paid $k less for my 2500 diesel than a friends mother paid for a 1500 gas. The power they have is exceptional. I have taken my horse & trailer over the pass and have been able to pass the gas engine trucks going over, this is a steep mountain pass of 6 miles up one way and 8 miles up from the other direction. Bottom of the pass is roughly 6200 feet, top of the pass at 8400 feet. It could pass anyone at anytime with my horse trailer, 2 horses, all the tack and gear, my cabover camper on completly full, total combined weight between 7500 & 8000 pounds. After having a diesel in my truck, I doubt I would ever by another gas truck.


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## dilligafdog (Oct 23, 2006)

basicly if you need the power such as towing extreme loads i'd buy a diesel, other wise they are over all more expenseve.:salute:


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## Antnee77 (Oct 25, 2005)

LLM Ann Arbor;327968 said:


> Unless I was towing extreme weight Id never even consider it.
> 
> The only guys I know that have diesels are guys that tow 30 or 40 foot enclosed car haulers, and some of those trucks are top kicks or heavy trucks too.
> 
> ...


That's ridiculous. There are so many different reasons for buying a diesel over a gas. Did you read the rest of the thread?


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## Snaaar (Oct 29, 2006)

Diesel Pros:
- There aren't many sounds sweeter than the whistle of that turbo.
- Raw pushing and pulling power

Cons:
- Smoky and weak when very cold (97 cummins anyway) - 01 duramax not so bad. You can't jump in and take off on a chase with any success.
- Definitely, as mentioned, the smell of the fuel on your clothes and person (fuel which is usually all over the pump and ground if you go to a service station).


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## TEX (Nov 24, 2003)

*diesel*

i have had 3 gas and 2 diesel trucks. the current and last being diesel and i will not go back to gas, NOT bc diesel is the allmighty and if you dont buy one your stupid. that is not what im saying at all. but its kinda like any hobby etc.... you find something you like and are intrestred in and stay with it. i just love owning a diesel truck and im happy with it.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT YOU ARE HAPPY AND LIKE WHAT YOU HAVE!!

I DO UNDERSTAND THAT FORM A BUSINESS VIEW THIS IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST WAY TO GO.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Antnee77;328165 said:


> That's ridiculous. There are so many different reasons for buying a diesel over a gas. Did you read the rest of the thread?


Yeah. Low end torque. I have a Dodge 360 motor that would pull the white House down in 4 low.

eh...Diesel guys are diesel guys for whatever reason and thats fine. Like I said. Im not and wont be unless Im pulling 5000lbs or more around all day or on weekends going to the Drag Strip.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

TEX;328169 said:


> i have had 3 gas and 2 diesel trucks. the current and last being diesel and i will not go back to gas, NOT bc diesel is the allmighty and if you dont buy one your stupid. that is not what im saying at all. but its kinda like any hobby etc.... you find something you like and are intrestred in and stay with it. i just love owning a diesel truck and im happy with it.
> 
> THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT YOU ARE HAPPY AND LIKE WHAT YOU HAVE!!
> 
> I DO UNDERSTAND THAT FORM A BUSINESS VIEW THIS IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST WAY TO GO.


Exactly. You like diesels cuz you like diesels, and Im behind that 100%, and you said it without saying Gas motors are junk.

right on.


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## Elwer (Nov 11, 2006)

Im new at this so lets see how i can do at it.lol
I would always buy a diesel no matter what. The power behind it towing a loaded down 25 foot gooseneck trailer with a bobcat and 2 pallets of concrete is increadible and plus you can hardly ever stall one.
just my 2 cents


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Elwer;328222 said:


> Im new at this so lets see how i can do at it.lol
> I would always buy a diesel no matter what. The power behind it towing a loaded down 25 foot gooseneck trailer with a bobcat and 2 pallets of concrete is increadible and plus you can hardly ever stall one.
> just my 2 cents


Welcome Mr E.

Ya did fine.

But would you buy one to plow snow, or tow 3000lbs of Lawn Care equipment?

Id buy a diesel too if I was towing a fifth wheel.


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## Elwer (Nov 11, 2006)

I would buy one for both. I feel it would do a lot better pushing wet, heavy snow better than light fluffy white powder. Especially around here we usually only get the wet stuff, only once in a while it the fluffy powder.


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## Antnee77 (Oct 25, 2005)

Elwer;328805 said:


> I would buy one for both. I feel it would do a lot better pushing wet, heavy snow better than light fluffy white powder. Especially around here we usually only get the wet stuff, only once in a while it the fluffy powder.


I agree. I have pushed snow with both the Vortec 6000 and 8100 and I still have to say, pushing snow with the Duramax is a dream! Best thing I ever bought.wesport


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## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

LLM Ann Arbor;327968 said:


> Unless I was towing extreme weight Id never even consider it.
> 
> The only guys I know that have diesels are guys that tow 30 or 40 foot enclosed car haulers, and some of those trucks are top kicks or heavy trucks too.
> 
> ...


So true, Sometimes I see these all done up trucks and just think seems so mid life to me, I like a work truck nothing fancy


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## Spikegt (Nov 8, 2006)

I have a 5.4L gas and 7.3L diesel. If I had to pick between them, I would pick the diesel. Better mileage, more power. I'd rather have more power than not enough.


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## Jpocket (Nov 7, 2005)

Personally all my trucks are GAS, mainly b/c we run older trucks, and the older diesels weren't worth 2 sh*ts. I have all 350 small blocks in my trucks. They don't have a ton low end torque, and wiht heavy loads you have just enough to get it moving.

The only time I wished I had a diesel is when I am pushing heavy snow...usually with a gas motor you have to step on the gas alot more to get the truck to move and keep it moving. Im sure with a Cummins you have the same power right off idle which is what you want for snow plowing.

As for the cool factor...in a pick-up I don't think either one is any cooler than the other. on my personal truck 2500HD I have a Flowmaster 40 series muffler, and 285 BFgoodriches, and I love it. I love both sounds of exhaust, just a flowmaster on a gas truck is more traditional.

There are obvoius Pro and cons to Gas or Diesel. Either truck will do the job, it's just a matter of what works best for you. Granted you might get 150,000 out of a gas motor in a 3500, and 250,000 out of a diesel.


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## bigfoot1 (Dec 6, 2006)

I have both gas and diesel trucks and the diesel wins hands down!! Pulls more,and as far a fuel econ I get 18-22mpg highway on a 1ton 4x4 dually pickup and 12-14 mpg pulling a 9500# goose neck. I saved the extra $5,000 it cost in the first 2 years of working the truck!


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## mrbrickman (Nov 13, 2006)

back in 85 when i bought my f350, diesel was 47 cents a gallon..............gas was right around a doller

i was then driving a 351 f-250 gas jobber and working in the pocanoes on building a nursing home, every day on the ride home id have to stop twice to fill up, and halfway through the secon tank the gas job would allllllllllllllllllllllways vapor lock coming down the turnpike....have to sit there for 30-40 minutes...

with the new diesel id fill the tanks before leaving the job and make it all the way home and still have a quarter tank in one tank...and that was with a 3speed c6 tranny and 4:10 rears!

bought the diesel and the money i saved filling 2-16 gallon tanks instead of 2-35 gallon tanks payed for the truck payments for those 2 years

now its the oppositte, diesel takes less to refine and its still as much at middle grade gas in most places.....i guess the oil companies jumped on the bandwagon just like every other yuppie with their f250 harley davidson package trucks that havent seen a speck of dirt or ever pulled a trailer....


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*fuel costs Diesel vs Gas*

I did a fuel cost of operation for gas vs diesel at current fuel prices. The figures came back that at 2.3 million miles I would break even in fuel costs by purchasing a diesel over a gas truck. That calculation did not take into account the costs of maintenance, just fuel.

Dave


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## psdiesel24 (Nov 25, 2003)

Never owned a gas truck but have plowed with one. Hands down i will always own a diesel. Has a lot more power and yes you will pay for it in price but will get it back when you go to sell. As for fuel milage just this last snow we had of 10 plus inches of heavy wet snow my truck went 26 hours of straigh plowing before needing to be refueled and thats a 25 gallon tank. The extra weight of the diesel also allows you to push snow futher than a gas truck.


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## Joe D (Oct 2, 2005)

SkykingHD;330118 said:


> I did a fuel cost of operation for gas vs diesel at current fuel prices. The figures came back that at 2.3 million miles I would break even in fuel costs by purchasing a diesel over a gas truck. That calculation did not take into account the costs of maintenance, just fuel.
> 
> Dave


What math are you using?
My comparison is a E250 with the 5.4 to my new Express with the 6.6 D Max

Ford E250 5.4 gets 10-12mpg average
Express 2500 D Max gets 17-19 average
I drive between 25-30,000 miles a year

25,000/ 12 = 2083 gallons X 2.30 per gallon= $4790 per year 
25,000/ 19 = 1316 gallons X 2.70 per gallon =$3553 per year

$1237 savings per year. The truck cost just over 5500 more to buy so 4 and a half years to pay it back. I got a very good deal on mine being it was on the lot and they had not had any lookers or intrest in it so my savings will be sooner. They had it on an internet special when I bought it and I paid 3500 more that the same van with a 6.0 gas motor.
Oil changes and fuel filters are more so this cuts into payback so add them in at double the cost for oil change, but that Express goes double the milage on an oil change, according to the oil change light at 9800 miles. Fuel filters are almost $80 for them and they GM wants them changed when the light comes on, mine has not yet at 19,500 miles.
add one more year maybe to cover all the expenses of the diesel filters maybe. This is a 5and a half year payback. After that the van will sell for more money due to the milage it gets or keep it and continue to save even more.


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## Snaaar (Oct 29, 2006)

mrbrickman, I'm in southeast PA and road diesel is some 30 cents higher than 89 octane gas. You say they're the same price near you? Did I read that wrong?


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## mrbrickman (Nov 13, 2006)

nah you dioddnt read that wrong, i was typing faster than im thinking, diesel is around 2.60 a gallon, seen it as high as 2.99 still and as low as 2.52 lately...

guess i was comparing it to summer gas prices which were up that high and i remember comparing it, now gas is what, 2.20 for regular around here and 2.35 or so for mid grade?


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Seeing that diesels in small pickups have more power then most day cab tractor trailers towing a 53' trailer and a GVW of 80,000 lbs; I can surely see why you would need a Cummins in a pickup to pull a 18' 10,000lb trailer. LOL

Heck even the UPS tractors you see pulling tandems only have in the neighborhood of 190hp . Then again what do they know about running a business.

I am not bashing motors in pickup trucks, gas or diesel. Just seems we are all victims of wanting bigger and more power then needed. We are willing to pay for it. (i.e. beating the neighbors), and the big three are laughing all the way to the bank with it.

Chris


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## deere-cat (Nov 30, 2006)

I had a 2001 F350 with a 7.3L diesel, DRW. I traded it in last year for my current F-350 with a 5.4L gas. Yes, the gas has less torque than the diesel, but the fact is the gas does everything the diesel did (almost). The 5.4L pulls my 4,500 pound Kubota around (plus 2,200 pound trailer) with no problem!

I chose a gas for my new truck because of the cost of fuel. I got about 14 mpg with my diesel, and I get about 13 mpg with my gas truck - not enough to make up the difference in cost of fuel. Plus, the 7.3L diesel takes 15 quarts of oil. Plus, the diesel glow plugs start to go bad after a few years (at least mine did), making it very hard to start in cold weather, without plugging it in. Yeah, I could have replaced them, but I had a lot of other maintenance issues that I won't bore you with, so I traded it in.

Bottom line is this - if you NEED a diesel, buy one.
If you WANT a diesel, buy one. It's OK! The dealers will be happy to take your money!
Yeah, they cost about $5,000 more, but don't forget that years later, you will get more for your trade in, so you will get some of that back in the end.


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*gas vs diesel cost*

Joe D,
I compared 2 trucks we own. The 2000 Dodge gas gets 15 mpg and the 2005 CTD at 18.6 mpg. The cost for diesel engine option is around $5000. The cost of gas is 2.19 and diesel is $2.59 TODAY. (who knows what it will be this afternoon)

When I figured it out I broke even on FUEL ONLY at 2.3 million miles. I know a gas engine will not go 2.3 million miles with out a rebuild and the CTD would also need at least one rebuild. The sheet metal on the truck would be gone due to rust also so it is a moot point on can the vehicles really survive 2.3 million miles.

My point is Diesel is not as economical as some say it is. If you want a diesel buy it. I believe if you have a money issue gas is the cheapest way to go.

And the power of the new pickup trucks is unreal. My father in law use to haul steel with a 180 HP tractor in the early 60's and was happy to have that much power. Now we plow snow with 325hp in a pickup truck.

Dave


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## Antnee77 (Oct 25, 2005)

If you're buying it to save money on gas, stick to a Jetta TDI.


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Antnee77;331601 said:


> If you're buying it to save money on gas, stick to a Jetta TDI.


A plow "car" that got 40mpg. Now we are talking.

Chris


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## Jpocket (Nov 7, 2005)

ThisIsMe;330401 said:


> Seeing that diesels in small pickups have more power then most day cab tractor trailers towing a 53' trailer and a GVW of 80,000 lbs; I can surely see why you would need a Cummins in a pickup to pull a 18' 10,000lb trailer. LOL
> 
> Heck even the UPS tractors you see pulling tandems only have in the neighborhood of 190hp . Then again what do they know about running a business.
> 
> ...


The motors in heavy trucks have WAAYYY more torque than a pick-up diesel. yes it may have 175HP but the torque numbers may be in the neighborhood of 1000 ft lbs. Now combine that with a 10 or 13 speed roadranger 5+2 or whatever, your Horspower #'s aren't as important as the torque #'s. A 237 Mack probably only has about 200HP but it's torque in the idle-1200 rpm range is almost double what a powerstroke or Dmax is.
But yes you are right who NEEDS 350hp and 600ft lbs in a pick-up.


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Jpocket;332599 said:


> The motors in heavy trucks have WAAYYY more torque than a pick-up diesel. yes it may have 175HP but the torque numbers may be in the neighborhood of 1000 ft lbs. Now combine that with a 10 or 13 speed roadranger 5+2 or whatever, your Horspower #'s aren't as important as the torque #'s. A 237 Mack probably only has about 200HP but it's torque in the idle-1200 rpm range is almost double what a powerstroke or Dmax is.
> But yes you are right who NEEDS 350hp and 600ft lbs in a pick-up.


True. A good majority of people brag about the HP in their pickups. Thought I was using the cool term. 

I do laugh when they brag about HP, as a diesel is all about low-end torque.

At 190HP I was thinking of the Cat C7, which is somewhere around 850lbs. You see day cabs or delivery trucks run around all 80% of the time at 50,000lbs . Yet you see people trying to increase power on the Cummins so they can "tow" better.  Yet 90% of the time they are using it as a grocery shopper.

Do the math. 1200lbs torque is good for a truck running at close to 80,000 lbs most of the time, so 625lbs is good for a truck running around at 6000lbs most of the time. LOL

And let us lest not forget the magical formula

Torque = HP x 5252 / RPM.

Chris


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## Jpocket (Nov 7, 2005)

ThisIsMe;332639 said:


> True. A good majority of people brag about the HP in their pickups. Thought I was using the cool term.
> 
> I do laugh when they brag about HP, as a diesel is all about low-end torque.
> 
> ...


Yup...and we must also consider that when towing with pick-ups guys want to get the same speed and acceleration as when they are empty. Most guys want to go 75mph UPHILL towing a bob0cat or camper.

Wih that said you don't see any loaded heavy trucks going up long grades at those speeds, with 73,280+ GVW you gotta fall in line when you go up hill. You MIGHT round the hill at 45 MPH and have to shift 1 gear. The Only guys in Big trucks going up hill at 75 MPH are the guys that are running 550+ CATS, CUMMINS etc


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Jpocket;332679 said:


> The Only guys in Big trucks going up hill at 75 MPH are the guys that are running 550+ CATS, CUMMINS etc


You forgot the part about how proud the guys with the 15 liter Cats are to announce on the radio they are running 70k while doing 75mph up that hill. 

I would bet Dodge could put a C15 and a Fuller 13 in a pickup and some guys would still spending gobs of money on go fast add ons.

We are all guilty. 

Chris


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## Jpocket (Nov 7, 2005)

ThisIsMe;332690 said:


> You forgot the part about how proud the guys with the 15 liter Cats are to announce on the radio they are running 70k while doing 75mph up that hill.
> 
> I would bet Dodge could put a C15 and a Fuller 13 in a pickup and some guys would still spending gobs of money on go fast add ons.
> 
> ...


YEP...I don't think there is anything wrong with it though. I just think it's funny when guys think They NEED more power to pull that Bob-Cat or Fifth wheel camper.

It's funny older guys like my old man will be driving a loaded truck with a 350 Chevy and say man "this thing has some guts" when i think the thing will barely get out of it's own way.


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

Jpocket;332698 said:


> YEP...I don't think there is anything wrong with it though. I just think it's funny when guys think They NEED more power to pull that Bob-Cat or Fifth wheel camper.
> 
> It's funny older guys like my old man will be driving a loaded truck with a 350 Chevy and say man "this thing has some guts" when i think the thing will barely get out of it's own way.


 That's exactly it- perspective. There are situations when you NEED that HP to pull a load- UPS just happens to run lighter trucks. Nothing wrong with 190hp IF you have the correct gearing behind it for the load either.

Trucks are designed for certain loads, in the old days the dealer would spec the truck for the job you were doing, which gave you the best comprimise. Often the truck was underpowered for some situations (like hauling in the mountains) but if it was speced correctly it worked fine.

The gas vs Diesel debate will continue for ever as long as both fuels exist. 
Diesel's have more torque- fact. 
Diesls have higher overhaul time (longer milage between them)- fact.
Diesel's STILL recover their operating costs versus a gas engine (Sorry Skyking- you're math is a tad off) in 4 to 5 years - Fact
Diesel's have better milage in most cases than a gas engine - fact The biggest advantage to a diesel is the torque- you can simply move more with it at lower RPM, which means it uses less fuel (lower the rpm the less fuel consumed per minute), so by simply adding more gears behind it the diesel can operate in a much larger range. You jokingly mentioned a T10- that's actually a fantastic idea for a pickup diesel- one could get the same great highway milage with the low rear power gears.

I don;t know a single gas driver that get's the milage pushing snow I get in my Diesel, or can push as much snow as I can. In 4 with the blade full I get 12. My gas truck get's 8 at best! Summer the Ram get's 16 with low rears- the standard rears (3:56 instead of 4:10) and it would get 24+ 
So, seriously, tell me what gas 3/4 truck get's 24+ mpg? Dodge's gassers average 13 in the same year as my diesel.

Diesel guys are diesel guys because they have seen first hand the difference. And just because some guy's truck is loud and disturbs you when he drives by the house means nothing on the gas vs diesel debate. There are half a dozen street racer wannabe's running up and down by my house daily with their fart mufflers and turbo pop off's and pneumatic gear shift. They annoy me, so does that mean gas engines are bad?

BTW, an earlier post mentioned cold starts ad a problem- only if you have bad glow plugs or don't follow the manufacturer's instructions. The oil is not thicker per se- I run Synthetic 15W50. Flows like water in sub zero temps......

Glow plugs DO go bad and do require changing, but so do spark plugs! What's the comparison? Not all diesel's even have glow plugs!

I can't wait till we run out of Gas and all that's left is bio diesel.....


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

justme-;333761 said:


> (lower the rpm the less fuel consumed per minute)




Huh? Good points but RPM is in no way relative to consumption of fuel.

Power is based on the BTU of the fuel times the efficiency of the motor (in simple terms). Motor could be most efficient at any RPM.

If we used your basis as a rule, then this motor [URL="http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/"]here with 102 RPM would be one of the most efficient in the world.

Chris


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## spittincobra01 (Nov 14, 2005)

bottom line, get what you like and can afford. 

When I was shopping for my truck I wanted either a 7.3 diesel or the 6.8 V10 gas. I ended up going for the gas, and I'm glad I did. I have something like 75-95 foot pounds of torque less than the diesel, but hp is almost equal or I think I may have a hair more. ( I know the statistics of my car inside out, but my truck is another story) I have never come across something a diesel could tow that I couldn't, and I have no issues towing up hill (stay in the mountains of northern NH most of the summer). Plowing wet heavy snow is not really any different than fluffy snow to this truck to be honest. and I don't have to listen to the rap noise a diesel makes, or deal with the mess that is often times found at diesel pumps. Granted, I get 13-14 mpg reguardless if I'm empty or towing a 8500 pound travel trailer or plowing, but I knew that would most likely be the case when I bought it... and I love the way my magnaflow exhaust sounds on it :waving: 

don't go on what others opinions are (like my post), go out and test drive them all, get the specs, and weigh your affordable options

my $0.02


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## spittincobra01 (Nov 14, 2005)

thisisme

can I get one of those motors in a go-kart for me and the kids?


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

spittincobra01;333924 said:


> thisisme
> 
> can I get one of those motors in a go-kart for me and the kids?


You want to put the motor in the go-cart or go-cart around in the motor? 

That mother has been on Discovery Channel as well. They actually walk inside of the motor for maintenance.


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*operating cost of diesel vs gas*

Given: 2000 Dodge 360 gas engine we get 15 MPG, 2005 CTD we get 18.5 MPG
Gasoline @ $2.19 per gal and diesel fuel at $2.59 per gal. Cost of diesel engine over gas engine $5000 (it is more but I rounded it down)

Cost of diesel fuel to drive 2,300,000 @ 18.5mpg = $161,000

Cost of gasoline to drive 2,300,000 @ 15mpg= $156,400 
now add the cost of diesel engine @ $ 5,000
TOTAL $ 161,400

At 2.3 million miles you can break even. After you get that many miles on this imaginary engine and truck you can then start saving money.

I know the engines will not go that mileage with out much work including an overhaul. But that is my point.

What is really neat is when you get out of truck on cold day and turn on the high idle at the fuel station while the other diesels get cold yours keeps warm.

If I figured wrong please tell me where I error ed. BTW I own both gas and diesel. I use them every time it snows. (employees use them) Also the loader is a Cummins engine. I am not anti diesel nor pro gas.

Dave


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## Jpocket (Nov 7, 2005)

justme-;333761 said:


> That's exactly it- perspective. There are situations when you NEED that HP to pull a load- UPS just happens to run lighter trucks. Nothing wrong with 190hp IF you have the correct gearing behind it for the load either.
> 
> Trucks are designed for certain loads, in the old days the dealer would spec the truck for the job you were doing, which gave you the best comprimise. Often the truck was underpowered for some situations (like hauling in the mountains) but if it was speced correctly it worked fine.
> 
> ...


I think you took my post the wrong way dude...Im diesel ALL THE WAY. Everything you just stated is true, I was just trying to point out the fact that 300HP 600ft lbs, is not really neccesary. Even with that guys aren't satisfied, they want to race em lol. I used to have a 93' IDI 7.3 in a Ford f-250 Loved it and thought it had a ton of power ( YES I HAD A FORD LOL).

Just for me in trucks 1ton and smaller diesel is just a big plus, not a necessity. the job will still get done. Especially in some of the older trucks like I have with 350's they are a dime a dozen and cheap to keep runnin, not huge power house but old standard and reliable.


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## Jpocket (Nov 7, 2005)

spittincobra01;333921 said:


> bottom line, get what you like and can afford.
> 
> When I was shopping for my truck I wanted either a 7.3 diesel or the 6.8 V10 gas. I ended up going for the gas, and I'm glad I did. I have something like 75-95 foot pounds of torque less than the diesel, but hp is almost equal or I think I may have a hair more. ( I know the statistics of my car inside out, but my truck is another story) I have never come across something a diesel could tow that I couldn't, and I have no issues towing up hill (stay in the mountains of northern NH most of the summer). Plowing wet heavy snow is not really any different than fluffy snow to this truck to be honest. and I don't have to listen to the rap noise a diesel makes, or deal with the mess that is often times found at diesel pumps. Granted, I get 13-14 mpg reguardless if I'm empty or towing a 8500 pound travel trailer or plowing, but I knew that would most likely be the case when I bought it... and I love the way my magnaflow exhaust sounds on it :waving:
> 
> ...


Wow you get 13-14 MPG with a V-10! WOW. I only get about 10.5 with my 6.0 Gas chevy, and thats the small block, I do have 285 Tires on it though.


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## spittincobra01 (Nov 14, 2005)

that was suposed to say 12-14... and yes that is what I get now. It only took some "minor" exhaust work, and K&N filter. I am running 285/75/16 Toyo OpenCountry T/A's. When I had the Bridgestone duelers it only got a best of 12 mpg, and an average of 10


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## spittincobra01 (Nov 14, 2005)

the biggest thing I think was replacing the *damaged* stock cat and replacing it with a 50 state legal high flow magnaflow unit. My self made custom SS cat-back with magnaflow mufflers just sound nice, but I don't think they are what made the difference.


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## Oshkosh (Sep 11, 2005)

*Wow a gasser Dodge that gets over 13mpg.....*

Just for the record I've owned both and bought what I could afford at the time.I prefer Diesels all things being equal.
My neighbor has a 2005 Dodge 2wd magnum, quadcab and he says he is lucky to get 10mpg..Yes he has a heavy foot but a 2wd getting that kind of mileage.I don't think he would lie about that kind of thing, he would have no reason to,Maybe I should tell him to put an egg under the gas pedal..... Now in the next breath Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4 with the cummins are/where getting up to 21mpg ,go figure.
Another friends Ford E350 P/S diesel work van loaded with alarm equipment/electrician full rack setup was getting 18mpg highway and he drove 70mph on average.The gas version that a plumber buddy has with the 351(I believe) is getting 10mpg.
My dually with a 6.2 diesel averaged 14.9 mpg, with an overdrive would have been better and my dually with a 400 gas was lucky to get 6-8 mpg...
Just some numbers that I have witnessed.


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*figured wrong*

My diesel gets 18.5 mpg and diesel costs 2.59 today, Dec 12, 2006. My gas Dodge gets 15mpg and gasoline is 2.13. The cost of fuel to drive one mile in diesel is $0.14 and gas truck costs $0.142. This is gotten by taking cost of one gal of fuel and dividing by miles that truck will go on that gallon. The gas truck costs $0.002 per mile MORE in fuel costs to operate. I took the $5000 that the diesel option costs more than the gas truck and divided by the fuel cost savings of the diesel. So $5000 divided by $0.002 equals 2,500,000 miles needed to be driven to recoup the cost of the diesel engine.

I explained it wrong in last post. I got thinking about how I explained it at work and said dam... they will be all over me ! I think I figured and explained it right this time. I used todays costs on fuel as this is the most current.

The only excuse is we have been working a lot of overtime lately. Guess fatigue does factor in!

I think I figured and explained it right this time. Correct me if I am wrong.

Dave


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## graycenphil (Mar 4, 2006)

On the diesel side, there is the possibility of free fuel.

We are running our 1999 Dodge on waste vegetable oil. I know this isn't exactly the website for that whole issue, but it does work very well. And of course it won't work with a gas engine.


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

ThisIsMe;333775 said:


> Huh? Good points but RPM is in no way relative to consumption of fuel.
> 
> Power is based on the BTU of the fuel times the efficiency of the motor (in simple terms). Motor could be most efficient at any RPM.
> 
> ...


 Well, the lower the RPM the less fuel used per minute assumeing a fixed amount of fuel per revolution. We're not talking about POWER, we're talking about fuel consumption. Small displacement uses less fuel, lower rpm uses less fuel, steady engine rpm uses less fuel. Engineering aside, all the current generation of vehicles being touted as high milage and fuel effecient have higher torque and lower rpm engines..... Notice all the new car ads touting high MPG's? catch the disclaimer? "The new Blah blah Blah... 35MPG city." It use to be higher MPG highway when you had steady rpm and overdrive dropping the overall average engine rpm. Now you have lower rpm in normal city driving than highway because most people spend more time in city driving.

And, based on a quick scan of the numbers for that engine (I had seen it before incidentaly) that IS a very effecient engine! Look it up on wikkapedia- it rates as the most effeceint piston engine in the world, second most effecient engine in the world to the GE multi type engine system.


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## 1st Bow (Dec 7, 2006)

I love that engine! Did you see the monster garage where the built a trike using a 855 cummings...talk about over kill!


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## bigfoot1 (Dec 6, 2006)

Maybe You would save money by driving a gas truck 2.3 mil miles unloaded. But for those of us who's trucks work for a living There is no Way you can say the fuel mileage is comparable. I have a 98 dodge 3500 dually 4x4 club cab with a 5.9 cumins and a 98 Chevy 3500 4x4 dually with a 454 both with around 145,000 miles. And at the end of the day when its time to fill the Tanks the dodge is way easier on my pocket book. I get the better fuel mileage pulling a 9800# Trailer with the dodge then i do driving the Chevy empty going down hill NO Joke. Both trucks will do the job the Diesel just seems to do it easier and uses less fuel.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

i think like someone stated earlier its what fits your lifestyle. personally for a work truck that everyone will be driving i prefer gas. 90% of the time i am running bobtail. this is one of the reasons i prefer my 92 gmc 1500 with a 350 (2x4). we pull trailers around with it and it does fine. the other thing i like about it is it is warmed up in about 1 minute whereas my diesels take muck longer. also....currently our jobsite is only about 1.5 miles from our shop, so i'm logging about 3-4 miles per day on the truck so in this case gas is my choice.


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