# Toro Grandstand MultiForce



## Mark Oomkes

So now that they're "public", anyone on PS lucky enough to be a tester last year? 

I bought one this summer, for the express purpose of being able to ewse one year round. Toro has finally released pricing for the plows (although I was really hoping for the vac system first) and it's a bit spendy.


----------



## BUFF

I'm sure you've seen this video, aboot 47sec in they cover how is duz plowing. 




Here's the contact info for that company http://listings.findthecompany.com/l/9515079/Rock-Solid-Snow-And-Turf-LLC-in-Germantown-WI I'd give them call and use you're snappy set of people skills for feedback.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> So now that they're "public", anyone on PS lucky enough to be a tester last year?
> 
> I bought one this summer, for the express purpose of being able to ewse one year round. Toro has finally released pricing for the plows
> (although I was really hoping for the vac system first) and it's a bit spendy.


You can use a ventrac year around...Many attachments...Plus..You get to sit down...Not stand..:hammerhead:


----------



## Defcon 5

BUFF said:


> I'm sure you've seen this video, aboot 47sec in they cover how is duz plowing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the contact info for that company http://listings.findthecompany.com/l/9515079/Rock-Solid-Snow-And-Turf-LLC-in-
> Germantown-WI I'd give them call and use you're snappy set of people skills for feedback.


In the video...The guy says it does the work of 
four men....if that's the case a Ventrac does th
e work of ten men from a heated cab sitting down....poor guy that's gotta run that in a Blizzard freezing his twig and berry's off....I pretty sure it won't be Marci....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> In the video...The guy says it does the work of
> four men....if that's the case a Ventrac does th
> e work of ten men from a heated cab sitting down....poor guy that's gotta run that in a Blizzard freezing his twig and berry's off....I pretty sure it won't be Marci....


OK, snowman.


----------



## BUFF

Defcon 5 said:


> In the video...The guy says it does the work of
> four men....if that's the case a Ventrac does th
> e work of ten men from a heated cab sitting down....poor guy that's gotta run that in a Blizzard freezing his twig and berry's off....I pretty sure it won't be Marci....


I can do the work of 4men on my own but that's a topic for another discussion.......
Cold is snot a problem when you have the right gear and moving. As far as the frank and beans freezing.....it could be a blessing in the big scheme of things since some genetics shouldn't be passed on.
VT's maneuverability is it's short coming along with the size and weight mulch like a person of my stature (beat you to it buckaroo). The GS wood run circles around a VT in close quarters and it's mulch cheeper two.


----------



## Defcon 5

BUFF said:


> I can do the work of 4men on my own but that's a topic for another discussion.......
> Cold is snot a problem when you have the right gear and moving. As far as the frank and beans freezing.....it could be a blessing in the big scheme of things since some genetics shouldn't be passed on.
> 
> VT's maneuverability is it's short coming along with the size and weight mulch like a person of my stature (beat you to it buckaroo). The GS
> wood run circles around a VT in close quarters
> and it's mulch cheeper two.


I figured Oomonkey would call in reinforcements.....Wheres Sno???

That machine has nowhere near the horsepower to tow your missing link rear around....


----------



## Randall Ave

That would get old in about 5 min. That's not the bosses machine, that's for Mooks Minions.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Imagine being the poor guy that has to run the thing with the rotary broom...


----------



## Defcon 5

John_DeereGreen said:


> Imagine being the poor guy that has to run the thing with the rotary broom...


Well...According to the man with an Ego to match Oomkes....Buffy says if you dress proper it's a non issue....:hammerhead:


----------



## BUFF

Defcon 5 said:


> I figured Oomonkey would call in reinforcements.....Wheres Sno???
> 
> That machine has nowhere near the horsepower to tow your missing link rear around....


Haven't mulch from Marci today (still have 70% fone battery), so no alliance thing going on it's just my own free will....

I'd just stick a supercharger or turbo on the ***** to haul me around, just think aboot the traction my missing link arse wood provide....



Defcon 5 said:


> Well...According to the man with an Ego to match Oomkes....Buffy says if you dress proper it's a non issue....:hammerhead:


Dam straight..... I'm no old middle age flatlander women like sum are, I love the cold...


----------



## Defcon 5

All kidding aside...Looks like a very productive machine....Just not sure Marks wife is gonna be happy running it....


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Defcon 5 said:


> All kidding aside...Looks like a very productive machine....Just not sure Marks wife is gonna be happy running it....


She said it beats a shovel.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> I'm sure you've seen this video, aboot 47sec in they cover how is duz plowing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the contact info for that company http://listings.findthecompany.com/l/9515079/Rock-Solid-Snow-And-Turf-LLC-in-Germantown-WI I'd give them call and use you're snappy set of people skills for feedback.


Thanks for that first hand experience skippy.

You know, because I couldn't figure that oot on my own.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thanks for that first hand experience skippy.
> 
> You know, because I couldn't figure that oot on my own.


Always here for you sporto....


----------



## SnoFarmer

BUFF said:


> Always here for you sporto....


says the guy who doesn't get ooot of his truck.


----------



## BUFF

SnoFarmer said:


> says the guy who doesn't get ooot of his truck.


 I get oot and shovel a couple resi's that I do close to home instead of having my shovel monkey drive 7miles the wong direction, plus I get oot to make yellow snow.........


----------



## framer1901

We used a Zee for two years with a plow on it, worked great, just a tad rough on the machine though - we don't use it anymore. Rust and electrical problems...

How'd the Z spray sidewalk thing go? I'd think winter would be harsh on those too....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

framer1901 said:


> How'd the Z spray sidewalk thing go? I'd think winter would be harsh on those too....


The ZSpray works fantastic, except on long runs in heavy snows, like public walks. It is fantastic to be able to plow and salt all at once. But I can't quite justify having 2 or 3 sitting around. And the B&S engine is garbage.

I went ahead and ordered the plow for the GS, saw it in person at B&B's open hoose. It lifts very high and has down pressure.

As is usual with Toro\Cat\John Deere, nothing is cheap. But the price includes a set of tyres\wheels, some blinky lights, LED work lights, the hydraulic control, cylinder and Boss ATV plow.

It's an investment in non-Harbor Freight equipment.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> The ZSpray works fantastic, except on long runs in heavy snows, like public walks. It is fantastic to be able to plow and salt all at once. But I can't quite justify having 2 or 3 sitting around. And the B&S engine is garbage.
> 
> I went ahead and ordered the plow for the GS, saw it in person at B&B's open hoose. It lifts very high and has down pressure.
> 
> As is usual with Toro\Cat\John Deere, nothing is cheap. But the price includes a set of tyres\wheels, some blinky lights, LED work lights, the hydraulic control, cylinder and Boss ATV plow.
> 
> It's an investment in non-Harbor Freight equipment.


Yea no salting capabilities would suck, is it actually going to push more then a Z having less weight... Just sold my last Exmark this year absolute j-u-n-k.... Thought about a snowrator for those heavy situations as an alternate option as we are looking at some downtown city walks and can see them being a pita with frozen and truck thrown heavy crap...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Apparently Toro has a bunch of monkeys working for them. Started assembling the plow and assorted necessities for the plow last week and it was missing a part. The part that goes on the plow to raise it up.

Talked to the sales rep, he says no problem I'll get one from the other one we have in the warehouse. 

It's missing in that crate two. :terribletowel::terribletowel::terribletowel:


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Apparently Toro has a bunch of monkeys working for them. Started assembling the plow and assorted necessities for the plow last week and it was missing a part. The part that goes on the plow to raise it up.
> 
> Talked to the sales rep, he says no problem I'll get one from the other one we have in the warehouse.
> 
> It's missing in that crate two. :terribletowel::terribletowel::terribletowel:


 If the plant is south of the boarder the missing components are probably being used in a Chevy Impala low rider...


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Someone's post count appears to have gone backwards.


----------



## BUFF




----------



## Mike_PS

then keep the comments on topic, relevant and not offensive and your post count won't go backwards Thumbs Up


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Michael J. Donovan said:


> then keep the comments on topic, relevant and not offensive and your post count won't go backwards Thumbs Up


Yes sir.


----------



## BUFF

Found your lift parts but they're on a square body C10....


----------



## Pristine PM ltd

We just received one, so I will post my thoughts on it next week, I think it looks promising.

Jon


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Pristine PM ltd said:


> We just received one, so I will post my thoughts on it next week, I think it looks promising.
> 
> Jon


I'm thrilled with mine so far. Sunday we had 4-5" of wet slop so I jumped on it at the shop. Plowed my 4 space "office" lot with it, it kept right on moving never hesitated. Had a nice windrow built up so I was going to load up our ZPlow and made a couple passes with it. I could feel it slowing down when I hit the windrow. That's the biggest downfall of the Zplow...long walks with heavy or a lot of snow.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm thrilled with mine so far. Sunday we had 4-5" of wet slop so I jumped on it at the shop. Plowed my 4 space "office" lot with it, it kept right on moving never hesitated. Had a nice windrow built up so I was going to load up our ZPlow and made a couple passes
> 
> with it. I could feel it slowing down when I hit the windrow. That's the biggest downfall of the Zplow...long walks with heavy or a lot of snow.


That was nice of you to plow the lot so you wife could take a break...:waving:


----------



## Mark Oomkes

She appreciated a break from shoveling.

Keeps her mind off the expenditures.


----------



## Mr.Markus

Mark Oomkes said:


> She appreciated a break from shoveling.
> 
> Keeps her mind off the expenditures.


I went the other way with his comment but I'm a pig.

I like the grandstand for summer work, I really would never use it for winter but anything that makes it year round productive and attracts employees to work for you instead of the comp is a good thing I would think.


----------



## icudoucme

I used to be a manager for at a commercial Toro dealer that was also a large landscape/snow removal company. We used all toro.. All I can say about this unit is be careful and follow your maintenance manual! They send the units out with cheap filters, batteries, and fluids. Make sure you change your hydraulic and oil filter ASAP. Check your wiring monthly. They have alot of rub spots that can be fixed with plastic conduit before it becomes a nightmare. Make sure you grease every joint!! The slop shows up quick if you don't. And in all seriousness fluid film the day lights out of the machine in 2 years time your machine will fall apart.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

icudoucme said:


> I used to be a manager for at a commercial Toro dealer that was also a large landscape/snow removal company. We used all toro.. All I can say about this unit is be careful and follow your maintenance manual! They send the units out with cheap filters, batteries, and fluids. Make sure you change your hydraulic and oil filter ASAP. Check your wiring monthly. They have alot of rub spots that can be fixed with plastic conduit before it becomes a nightmare. Make sure you grease every joint!! The slop shows up quick if you don't. And in all seriousness fluid film the day lights out of the machine in 2 years time your machine will fall apart.


Huh, I have 4 and the only problems have been the Kawakazi.

How long ago was "used to be"?


----------



## icudoucme

I left June of this year(2016). After 3 years of myself and other begging to drop toro they finally did in July. They do make great snow blowers, but long term the mow rigs are very high maintenance and have a high cost of ownership.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

The Grandstands have been some of the most reliable and lowest cost mowers I have owned. All were newer than 2012. I know they had issues with the first year models, but not since. 

Maybe it was the operators?


----------



## icudoucme

Mark Oomkes said:


> The Grandstands have been some of the most reliable and lowest cost mowers I have owned. All were newer than 2012. I know they had issues with the first year models, but not since.
> 
> Maybe it was the operators?


Possibly. I think toro has great ideas (ground master series(72/7210, polar trak system, 4wd and 4 wheel steer ground master) but they tend to cut corners in some areas. I dunno maybe we got ones that where made on Mondays lol...

. I am glad yours are working well!


----------



## Pristine PM ltd

I had had some issues with the grandstand in the fact that my guys abused them, and the John Deere's (wrights) hold up better than the toro's, but if this one multiforce goes well this winter, we will fully switch back.


----------



## Gr8WhiteNorth

How do these units deal with packed snow?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

They don't.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> They don't.


A Ventrac does....:waving:


----------



## BUFF

Defcon 5 said:


> A Ventrac does....:waving:


And there it is.....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

So our local Toro\Boss dealer fabbed up a V plow on a Grandstand. Kinda pissed I didn't try\axe for this. I still might. 

I haven't seen it in person, only pics so far.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> So our local Toro\Boss dealer fabbed up a V plow on a Grandstand. Kinda pissed I didn't try\axe for this. I still might.
> 
> I haven't seen it in person, only pics so far.


Better ask the wife first..


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> So our local Toro\Boss dealer fabbed up a V plow on a Grandstand. Kinda pissed I didn't try\axe for this. I still might.
> 
> I haven't seen it in person, only pics so far.


Sounds like a game changer....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Sounds like a game changer....


Snow and ice is not a game, let's keep it on topic fella.


----------



## SnoFarmer

it kind of is.
http://www.gamestop.com/wii/games/winter-blast-snow-and-ice-games/77611


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Snow and ice is not a game, let's keep it on topic fella.


You're correct however you're wrong in the use of 'Game Changer" in my post:










So a Grandstand with a V blade wood be a game changer.

BTW it's "Old Fella"...............


----------



## framer1901

Curious as to what the thing looks like in two years. Our Z just had so many problems related to corrosion and abuse of snow plowing. Of course we probably didn't clean it off perfectly every night either.

One nightly issue we had was starting it when cold, even new battery, just not enough guts when it was cold......


----------



## Mr.Markus

I bought my 24hp grandstand in 2008. When it needed a new battery I replaced the old one with one with 230 CCA.
Much better turning over.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

Ether might help. My snorkel lift is hard to start due to my tuning it lean to reduce CO. 1.6 liter Toyota engine. 

I've given up on the all on or off choke. I just give it a healthy dose (4 sec or so) of ether and start without choke. By the time the ether is gone the engine just keeps chugging along.


----------



## STARSHIP

Mark Oomkes said:


> So our local Toro\Boss dealer fabbed up a V plow on a Grandstand. Kinda pissed I didn't try\axe for this. I still might.
> 
> I haven't seen it in person, only pics so far.


We are about to pull the trigger on this machine, and leaning towards the v-plow verses the straight plow. Any further thoughts about this machine from you or the masses? A Z-spray with plow is also an alternative, but we are leaning towards the Grandstand. This would also be our first Toro in quite a while.


----------



## framer1901

Mark - how has yours lasted with really just over a years worth of plowing? They gave me a today only price, then came back with a good for the month price 2k cheaper...

Bought a Snowrator, the wheels and plow are mild steel, everything else seems to be stainless, trying to get away from towing the RTV around, gonna see if we can make a carry all type thing for it.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Honestly, I wouldn't do it again. At least not after seeing the Ventrac SSV. 

Supposedly they have a wheel weight kit for them to help with traction, which is the biggest issue. I would definitely NOT get a straight blade. As long as you can maintain traction, it works OK. Kind of suffers from the same issue the ZPlow does...doesn't go fast enough to "roll" snow over higher banks. I was considering the blower, but it still hasn't been released. 

I can see the V blade working better. I think. 

And I must say I am thoroughly underwhelmed by Boss' ATV plow. I really thought it would be heavier duty than every other ATV plow oot there, it isn't.

I'm really kind of hung up on something that can plow\sweep and apply liquids or granular all in one pass. And has enough nuts to push through heavier snow. Even if it does cost more and is a 1 season piece of equipment. Efficiency and doing a good job without having to push oof to the side every 20 feet is worth it to me. 

Sorry I can't give a better review.


----------



## framer1901

Skeeerd of the Ventrac price, probably shoulda went and looked at them though.

Time will tell - most of our walks are pushed into parking lots and plowed away although there is some that needs rolled. The spreader option is 1700+, comes with 20 gallon tank but that won't go very far plus we're newbies at that...


----------



## STARSHIP

I appreciate the honest feedback and review, Mark. Like what framer mentioned in his scenario, most of our walks will get rolled into the lot and carried away by the truck/loader. 75% of the places this would be used at also do not require salting, so the lack of capability of the Grandstand right now isn't as much of an issue. I do like that part of the Z-sprays ability, but it sounds like there still isn't something that totally hits a home run. And all of the current options carry a pretty steep price.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

If you can use the granstand in the summer then by all means consider buying it. But for anyone looking at a snowrator for snow, you need to look at the ventrac. I'd never buy a snowrator even being 25% cheaper than the SSV. Far too limited and not built anywhere near as well as the ventrac is.


----------



## snowman55

25%?

I was quoted 100% more than a snowrator.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

snowman55 said:


> 25%?
> 
> I was quoted 100% more than a snowrator.


For what attachments?


----------



## framer1901

What's a SSV with the plow cost? What's the 20 gallon add on liquid tank cost?

After tax, I paid 9800 for the snowrator - comes with a plow and 20 gallon liquid tank. Another 20 gallon tank was 450ish, the 175# salt spreader was 1700ish - didn't buy either.

The Groundmaster quote was 15k with the plow setup. They dropped it to 13k if I bought three....... I would have bought it had they had the other options available - it's been out two years and a big company that Toro is still hasn't come out with the blower. Somethings fishy there, why not have all the options available after two years?

That SSV is absolutely way more machine with the options, I cringed at the 10k and figured the SSV was 15k plus attachments so never took the drive to look.....

I think they're all good, just depends on what you need and how you want to work.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

12500 for blade and machine on the SSV. Not sure on the liquid setup.


----------



## framer1901

John_DeereGreen said:


> 12500 for blade and machine on the SSV. Not sure on the liquid setup.


That's bunches less than what I thought.......


----------



## John_DeereGreen

framer1901 said:


> That's bunches less than what I thought.......


That's retail prices too. I bet you could be out the door for 13 depending on th cost of the liquid setup.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I realized I never posted pics of my Grandstand with Boss plow.

Apparently there were some complaints aboot lack of traction...not just me. They came oot with a wheel weight kit, we'll see how it works.










Sorry aboot the quality, the protective glass\plastic over my camera is scratched pretty bad.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Is that electric over hydraulic or full hydraulic controlled?


----------



## Defcon 5

Wouldn't need the wheel weights if Buffy was running it.....


----------



## Defcon 5

Btw....Could use a "Few" more Jagoof lights


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Btw....Could use a "Few" more Jagoof lights


Understood...


----------



## BUFF

Defcon 5 said:


> Wouldn't need the wheel weights if Buffy was running it.....


I was thinking with Oo's Ego would be enough.....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Update...wheel weights don't really help.

And FWIW, I am pretty sure that @Aerospace Eng assessment of the plow being too far from the drive wheels is correct. This machine will be moved to backup status at best next season. Maybe...but it won't be a front line unit.


----------



## tpendagast

Mark Oomkes said:


> Update...wheel weights don't really help.
> 
> And FWIW, I am pretty sure that @Aerospace Eng assessment of the plow being too far from the drive wheels is correct. This machine will be moved to backup status at best next season. Maybe...but it won't be a front line unit.


Dumb question 
You don't think tire chains would help 
Or would they just fugger up the concrete?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

tpendagast said:


> Dumb question
> You don't think tire chains would help
> Or would they just fugger up the concrete?


I'm sure they would help...AND screw up the concrete.


----------



## bullit340

Has anyone had any updated good luck with this machine and the traction issues?
Are the tire chains any better?
Possibly screw in studs in the tires?

What tire pressures are you guys running in the snow tires?


----------



## tpendagast

bullit340 said:


> Has anyone had any updated good luck with this machine and the traction issues?
> Are the tire chains any better?
> Possibly screw in studs in the tires?
> 
> What tire pressures are you guys running in the snow tires?


You can you tube it

There's all sorts of videos from people who think they're great 
Not sure what the difference in conditions is 
But I suspect all the videos had ample room to windrow off the snow and it didn't seem especially wet or heavy 
Where as (perhaps) in marks case he had isolated walks that have a berm on both sides and with some wet/heavy snow and nowhere for it to curl off the machine gets bogged down/looses traction.

I think it all depends on your application


----------



## Klaibs27

Hey Mark, I'm looking at some equipment that I can use year round as I need to get the best ROI I can on what I buy. Have you given up on the Grandstand or have you/your guys learned its limitations and do the best they can with it? I mainly do SMALL residential stuff and have been using snowblowers and shovels to get the job done but would like something with more speed.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Klaibs27 said:


> Hey Mark, I'm looking at some equipment that I can use year round as I need to get the best ROI I can on what I buy. Have you given up on the Grandstand or have you/your guys learned its limitations and do the best they can with it? I mainly do SMALL residential stuff and have been using snowblowers and shovels to get the job done but would like something with more speed.


It was 4 seasons old so we sold it late summer. Plow never went on last year because we bought an SSV.

I'd buy one to mow with, not to plow or vacuum with.


----------



## jonniesmooth

Hopefully we can demo one of these this winter.


----------



## Green mentorship

jonniesmooth said:


> Hopefully we can demo one of these this winter.
> View attachment 197392
> View attachment 197393
> View attachment 197394


That's from the guy who started and sold ground logic spreaders. Those sprayers wouldn't hold up past 250 hrs. They're a toy compared to steel green or even z spray. I would not be an early buyer of that plow thing. I'm sure there are COUNTLESS kinks to work out.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Klaibs27 said:


> Hey Mark, I'm looking at some equipment that I can use year round as I need to get the best ROI I can on what I buy. Have you given up on the Grandstand or have you/your guys learned its limitations and do the best they can with it? I mainly do SMALL residential stuff and have been using snowblowers and shovels to get the job done but would like something with more speed.


If you want a decent ROI, and you have a Steel Green or Zspray, get a Zplow.

IMO, a multi season machine is good at a lot of things but excels at none.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> IMO, a multi season machine is good at a lot of things but excels at none.


What??? They don't excel at fert and squirt...?


----------



## Ajlawn1

jonniesmooth said:


> Hopefully we can demo one of these this winter.
> View attachment 197392
> View attachment 197393
> View attachment 197394


13k you're already at snowrator pricing with brine tank and drop spreader... Adding those two items probably puts you in the 16-17k range and by that time you'd be silly not to buy a SSV...


----------



## z plower

jonniesmooth said:


> Hopefully we can demo one of these this winter.
> View attachment 197392
> View attachment 197393
> View attachment 197394


This thing is almost $13,000 and doesn't spread salt. I don't see it leaving the snowrator in the dust any time soon... Plus there's a few options that leave the snowrator in the dust already.


----------

