# Ugly '03 GM trucks affecting sales? - Looks like it!



## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

I guess this number tell the story. The number represent # of trucks sold. 

Ford F-Series
56,569 +2.2% YTD
January 2003: 56,569
January 2002: 55,370


Chevrolet Silverado
36,088 -29.5%YTD 
January 2003: 36,088
January 2002: 51,184


Dodge Ram
26,752 +3% YTD 
January 2003: 26,752
January 2002: 26,019


Ford Ranger
17,293 +15.9% YTD
January 2003: 17,293
January 2002: 14,927


GMC Sierra
9,947 -26.9% YTD
January 2003: 9,947
January 2002: 13,610


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

Go figure ,If i owned a 03' Chevy,I would mount lights on the tailgate and drive backwards


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## gslam88 (Feb 19, 2002)

It may be true... ok it is true that the 02 chevy's are ugly.. .but look what happen to the Ford F-150;s inside

from here

http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/pickup/112_0303_fut_f150/


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## myo (Dec 2, 2002)

It will definately take awhile to get used to the 03', but I personally like the GMC looks a little better. So I will go with them.


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## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

Arc whats up buddy 

I tried to drive backwards, but i almost crashed !!!!!! 
(tends to wander funny down the road).

It's starting to grow on me, i'll have new pics next week with the bugshield and vent visors. Only thing i hate in the slug of the motor i'm running.

Is it really that ugly ??


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Looks like Dodge is within striking range of Chevy sales. I know GM sells more together,but GM needs to start making what truck buyers want,or fall behind.


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

Earth,i would save my money from the bugshield and just buy a blue tarp to wrap around that front end ,,but you can humor me anyways and show me the pics later!

PS-keep tellin yourself it aint that bad,sooner or later your bound to convince yourself


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## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

> _Originally posted by gslam88 _:
> It may be true... ok it is true that the 02 chevy's are ugly


What? My '02 Chevy is ugly? Boy, I am po'ed. :realmad: 
I'm just kidding.  I think you meant the '03. 

The interior of 2004 Ford F-150 looks nice, but that got to come with a big price tag.

Earthscape, your truck is not really that ugly. It does not looks too bad, but it will take a while to get used to it. It is starting to growing on me too. But I really like my '02 Chevy much better than my Dad's '03 Chevy. Just a honest opinion.


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

GM's truck offerings are starting to look cloned, they need to get a new design team. It started with the Aztek, moved into the Avallanche, then the Trailblazer (which doesn't look all that bad), the pickups and now the vans. How about something unique guys, and what was wrong with the '02's?

Gslamm88, you only told part of the story. While the interior does resemble a sports car more than a truck, the exterior is definitely truck! How many 1/2 tons do you see actually involved in full work status today anyway?


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

Earthscapes, I think your truck is beautiful except for the 03 nose and no moldings on the bed, which they did away with on 03s I understand. I like moldings on the full length of a truck, makes it look complete. Without them, it looks like its missing something or they forgot to put them on. I see Fords dont have them on the bed either. Makes no sense to me. Mike


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## CARDOCTOR (Nov 29, 2002)

LIKE THE COLOR 
I THINK ITS COSMETICLY CHALLENGED


CARDOCTOR


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

CARDOCTOR and CAPS LOCK, up a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G!! LOL 

Mike


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

I'm not 100% on this,but i understand that GM has been hiring engineers from the blind school of technology,apparently the 03' front end"feels" like a good idea 

Mike,LOL,good one on the cardoc!

Earth,if that trucks anything like an ugly women maybe you could drink it pretty ,just don't wake up next to it sober


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

If they want to makem ugly then charge less,now you wouldn't pay more for a steak that has gon bad .


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## LB Landscaping (Sep 4, 2002)

I'm seeing a ton of new Fords and Dodges around lately, I m a die hard GM fan but the 03's are ugly!!! I didn't like to last version either but it grew on me, hopefully the 03 will too.


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

I do notice lot more Dodges and F series trucks too. I have seen a lot of the 03 Ram HDs out locally.


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## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

See, thats funny, cause everywhere I look around here someone has a new '03 HD (and a plow, thats a completely different story tho:realmad: ) I kinda like the looks, more boxy like the 88-98 style. My uncle bought an 03 2500HD Duramax/Allison last week. He said that he hadn't had time to look at the front end, its growing on him, he doesnt care, he fell in love with that duramax, and so did I  

-John


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## oakhill2000 (Jan 11, 2003)

hey this is a chevy truck forum guys stop knocking them. Earthsacpes I think your truck is very nice even though I like my 02 design better. I have see alot more chevy's and GM's around here lately. I would take dependability over looks any day, never catch me in a Ford or Dodge. they look ok but I would rather take a GM product. If you look at a Dodge or Ford closely and compare them to a chevy or gm then you will see alot more thought and design goes into them, they have some of the best designs out there. I think the new 03 design has grown on me. only in the HD's though. General Motors is coming out with a couple of new trucks that are bigger than an s-10 but smaller than a full size. to compete with the Dakota sales. They look pretty sweet, I think they will do well and make a nice residential plow truck!


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

Speaking of Dodge,i always thought they were a decent looking truck(94'-up)that is right up till this last one they came out with,those stupid round headlights,they are awfull,quite possibly worse than the Chevy front end(how bout that Earth!now i'm defending ya ).I would have to say the best LOOKING truck on the market is the Ford Superduty(i have 2 Chevys if your wondering)That opinion is strictly based on LOOKS,not reliability or power,i haven't owned any of them so i will not even judge,i think thats fair


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

Oakhill, you are correct, this is the Chevy Forum, where *all* things GM can be discussed, the good, the bad and the UGLY!

Sorry, I couldn't resist!

Seriously, most people here *are* GM enthusiasts who are unhappy with Chevy's latest offering. What harm is there in expressing their opinion? If the right people see this thread, perhaps positive changes will be made to the product.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

I just saw a F450 at the masscon show really made want to trade my chevy in


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

I'm sorry for talking about Ford and Dodge trucks in the Chevy forum ,but they are still ugly:waving:


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

I started a thread a while ago on 2003 Chevrolet Trucks talkin about their looks. That thread got really big and had many many views. I think Im gonna go find it and bring it back to the top, hehe. Mike


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## GesnerLawn (Nov 30, 2002)

Earthscapes - I love the color of your truck, but I think it would look better in a standard cab model without any door moldings at all.


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## GesnerLawn (Nov 30, 2002)

Oops, wrong photo. Here's the side view. After driving this since december, I really don't care what it looks like. Nice truck all around.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

Who knows maybe by the time they decide to do a body change i will get to like it,It only took me 10 years to like the 90's style


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

Only 10 years huh? LOL! I guess after a long while, that 03 front will grow on me. When the look before it first came out, I didnt care for it at all either, but then when I started seeing the HD around, I was like, wow those are nice! I dont know though, I never like the Avalanche look and still dont and this resembles the Avalanche so much. Hey, its not my business anyway, if you guys who own them are happy, thats all that matters, atleast you are Chevy guys like me!  Mike


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

Mike i'm with you hated the advalanche look and still do maybe that's why i hate the 03's but look GM made very thing easy for themself they rubber stamped that look on every truck they build.I do like the 4500-5500 top kicks but no 4wd


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## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

Gesner like the color:waving: 

I don't really care to much about the way it looks and "Arc Burn" knows that first hand. My friend owns a body shop and he's gonna add the moldings to the bed. I saw a 03' reg cab today with only door moldings and it looked like crap. 

I am really upset with the performance of the 6.0L motor it seems to lack in all departments. Dealer said they would put a chip in it after 4000 miles so i'm halfway there. I'm also thinking about adding a cat-back system and some type of air cleaner setup.

One thing i can say about these ugly trucks is the headlights are brighter than anything i have ever drove. I get people every nite flashing their high's at me, Then i lite them up !!!!!

To all the guys that said nice things:waving:

To the rest of you  LOL


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## GesnerLawn (Nov 30, 2002)

Earthscapes - I guess we have different expectations, because I think the 6.0 powers my truck quite well. Compared to my 85 K20 with a 350 4 barrel, it's a rocket ship! I'm sure yours is a bit heavier, so that might make some difference. Guess it might make a little difference that I've just been running around with it empty and nothing in tow too.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

Dont forget the last truck he owned had the mongo 8.1 liter in it, so a 6.0 will be a dog compared to that.
Dino


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Dino has got that right,its not easy to go from the 8100 to the 6 liter,and be happy with the performance. I used to think my 350 GM EFI's pulled well and was happy with their performance,then i bought the Dodge with the Cummins,now i drive my GMCs and wonder how I got by with such low torque engines. Earthscapes,honestly i dont think you'll ever be satisified with the 6 liter,a chip,and cat back will help slightly,but the extra noise,and the fact that you'll have to runsuper unleaded will hurt you.The gains are very small also,no where near what your looking for.The only thing that will make the 6 liter run the way you want it to is a whipplecharger.They are big$$,and you got to run premium and a cat back,but it will run good then.


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## GesnerLawn (Nov 30, 2002)

Well that it explains it. I considered the 8.1 for the extra towing capacity but was afraid the milieage would be horrible. The 6.0 is bad enough on gas. I'm only getting 10-11 mpg around town empty.


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

EARTH..........I hear ya about the 6.0 being a dog !
My 01 was a slug compared to my 97 when new.
The 97 would BURN off the tires and squeek em'
on a 1st to 2nd shift a WOT................
Its got pushin' and towing guts tho..........
Now at 16k miles on my 01 6.0 performance has
improved a LOT ! Finally does a burn out and
seems peppier off the line.
MPG has steadly improved from 10 no matter what
to 12-14 city....18 hiway.....8-10 plowing and towing.
All figures unloaded, tonneau cover on, and A/C
cranking in the summer........................geo


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## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

John and Dino--- i am not comparing it to my last truck. Heck my 90' with 165,000 miles and 454 has more go go juice than the 02' with the 8.1L.
Last weekend i took a 02' 1/2 ton with a small v-8 to Ohio for a dealer trade and it got up and went,,no problems doing 70 and trying to pass someone on the highway,,where mine just dogs out. I have even had a few people with the same motor in their trucks drive it and they said the same thing. I am really worried that when i hook up the 26' haulmark that the truck won't be able to pull it. I have dealer traded probably 50-60 trucks in the past 2 yrs and my truck is just lacking somewhere in power. 

As far as fuel goes the 8.1L would get 10-12 around town and 14-18 on the highway, depending if i was pulling the haulmark. The 6.0 gets 10.5 town or highway with no trailer. 

Right now its just a grocery getter,,within the next couple weeks it will be out working (i think the snow is all gone) and hauling to the tracks on the weekends. Hopefully with some mileage on it, it will start to perform better.


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

If someone drove you straight into a wall would you have lots power and energy?now ya know how that UGLY truck feels 

Actually,I'm a little worried about your comment on the 6.0,as thats the motor i was going to go with?


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## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

Arc Burn, 

Don't be concerned about those guys that don't like the 6.0L engine - they just want more power.  The 8.1L just give you a little more towing capacity. But 6.0L still have plenty of power. It probably will break traction before you could use all the power. 


Earthscape - why are you disappointed with the 6.0L? Previously you said that you are impressed with it? I think you should try to drive it and get used to it.  Do you expect the 6.0L to pull the big 26' trailer without any flaw of power? If you knew that, then why did you not consider a Duramax? I know it would mean Allison transmission, but I think that if you have a problem with it, just bring it to the best dealer you know of and have them fixed it right the first time.


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

EARTH.......That 6.0 WILL tow that trailer. I pull a 29 ft.
Coachman travel trailer....and yank my 32 ft. wellcraft
boat on a big hydralic trailer also. (cops around the
1000 islands don't bother ya about overwidth ).
Heck I would tow them with my 97 350 1/2 ton x-cab .
..........geo


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

Ok,I think Earth is having serious second thoughts about that "ugly" truck and is desperatly searching for a scapegoat (in this case the wee bitty 6.0) so as he can jump ship to another brand,come on Earth,you can tell me,i won't tell any of these other guys 

Seriously though,if your gonna get rid of it,get rid of it cause it's ugly,not because of the tryed and true 6.0! ,come on guys,i'm only kiddin


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

Arc Burn  Mike


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## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

wxmn6- i posted that before i drove it down the highway. Around town it's ok,,it won't smoke the tires but i really don't want it too. I also plowed once with it and had no complaints. Under 55mph the truck seems fine except for the fuel economy, But when i hit the highway it really lacks in power and fuel mileage. My wife took it to Auburn monday and said her car (grand am 4-cylinder) goes better down the highway. My truck really bogs down when u hit the pedal to pass someone.

Also i'm not sayin that all 6.0 are slugs,,as i drove a 01' (with dealer plates)for 26 weekends in a row hauling our 24' haulmark. The 01' had great power (got nailed doing 82mph in roch.) and mileage on the highway, i could go to Oswego and back without filling up.

Arc your right The new FORD Tonka truck looks good


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## wolfie (Aug 14, 2001)

My 6.0 has a lot more power than the 350 I had in my 89 and it gets better mileage too... I got 14.25 mpg this week... but I did go for a long ride on Sunday


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## dillyolboy (Dec 24, 2002)

As John said earlier GM needs to build what buyers want and Dodge is catching them cause they are offering what buyers want in the way of two great motors, Hemi and High Output Cummins, with (hopefully) a decent tranny. I hate the looks of the new Chevys. Actually the whole GM lineup is going to the pits. The new sunbird/cavaliers are atrocious. I don't know why anyone would want to make everything else look like the Avalanche. It is named after a natural disaster and looks like one and to top it all off has that ugly flying plastic covered buttress. 

David


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## GesnerLawn (Nov 30, 2002)

One thing that no one mentioned about the new front end that I like about it, is that it's obviously new. I hate to play the image game, but let's face it, image matters. Coming into the new lawncare season and showing up in a brand new truck says something postive about my business... If he can afford a brand new truck after not working all winter, he must be doing something right. This may be a coincidence, but I'm 5 for 5 on my spring clean-up bids this year and I raised my prices. 

So a priority for my lawncare business this year is to save enough money to put a new plow on my truck for next plowing season and show up with that for sales calls. I'm not going to tell them that unless my old 85 truck breaks down, I won't be plowing with it.


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

Yea I agree, you have the right idea. Some customers though may get turned off by the fact you have a brand new truck or all new equipment cause they figure you must charge alot for you to be able to have all that nice new stuff or you charge alot to meet your monthly payments. Just a thought. It can work both ways it seems. Mike


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## GesnerLawn (Nov 30, 2002)

Mike - Yeah, that's what the crank windows are for...proviing I'm not charging too much!


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## oakhill2000 (Jan 11, 2003)

I agree with you also, Image is alot. I would rather have a nice new truck and clean equipment to show that I take care of my equipment just like I will take care of thier lawn. The crank windows deffinatly help with not being too fancy. Gesnerlawn, I like the looks of your truck alot, I don't mind the lineup of GM products but that is because I am a dihard fan. If you own a Dodge and are happy with it it is easy to pick out the bad parts of the competeters trucks and easy to see how nice the dodge is. I know there are flaws with all trucks but I don't tend to see them in the GM because I love them but I pick apart the Dodge and Ford. I have known too many people that own chrystler products, Jeeps and trucks that have had more transmission work and front end work. I know one friend of mine that has had to get a new Jeep every year for the past 3 years and she has to again this year as the tranny is acting up again. I don't have that much beef with Ford but just prefer GM.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

I didn't read the entire thread, just breezed through. But I do have to put my $ .02 worth in. I really like the '88-'00 style, and that is what I currently have. I then liked the "new" '01-'02 style . Not bad for GM. Then came the new front ends on the '03's. You can see in my picture that the curved front fender by the headlight area is my area in question. I like the cat eye headlight look from the front, just wonder why they mixed a CURVED fender on an otherwise straight and angular truck.??

I don't mean to slam any owner of an '03 truck, just wish they would have let good enough alone! I like the idea that my '90 truck still looks like a '00 truck! All I need is a '00 grille all else remained the same. I'll eventually get a truck, and I'm a died in the wool GM fan, but if they keep going the way they are, I may be forced to look other places.

BTW, guys, nice looking trucks in general. Its just that area I highlighted that has me scratching my head.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

That is what they have left out. I still think that the 02's had it all the look of the old K style and the lines of a modern truck.But when they went into the 03 style they lost both.


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## wolfie (Aug 14, 2001)

I still think that the 01 and 02 HD's look a lot like my favorite of the GM products, (another fairly short run too) the 67-72 trucks. I don't hate the 03's... but when i see my 02 parked next to my dad's new 03.... I still like mine the best... I have to admit though, I do think that blue 03 is not all that bad... maybe the color makes the difference??


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## KentuckyPlow (Nov 26, 2002)

I heard that the reason they changed the '03 was economy, gas mileage, etc.


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## wolfie (Aug 14, 2001)

I don't know about that... my dad gets 14-16 on his new 03 1500 shortbed and i got 14.25 on my 2500HD this week I can't see where the 03's would get better mileage


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## litle green guy (Feb 25, 2000)

I'm a stong believer in GM Products but i realy don't like the '03 chevy HD. As for the 6.0 I just bought a 01' GMC 2500HD ext cab short bed, I havn't started driving it yet but I've driven other 6.0's before and they got guts. My '94 k3500 w/350 and 4:10's is a dog, it won't get out of it own way but it pulls GREAT. In my opinion if you want a '03 HD you have to by GMC over Chevy, I realy like the way the GMC's look


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## GesnerLawn (Nov 30, 2002)

TLS - I think that the area you have pointed out is the area that most people are having trouble with getting used to. That's the Avalance looking part. 

I've said this before...the headlights are top notch. Maybe that's what they had to do in order to get that sort of side light out of them. Let's face it, when you're using a truck to make a living, sometimes you have to put function over form. 

I would have bought a GMC, but supply in my area is limited and the only one I could find was dealer equipped with a plow that I didn't like (Fisher 7.5). I also didn't like the dealer. I had several of the Chevies to pick from, and mine had everything I wanted except the aux. battery.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

Why buy off the lot we always order yeah you have to wait but that is already planed.You get what you want and have a truck that is speced the way you want not the dealer.Plus is cheaper most of the time.Why you might ask becase they are paying for those trucks to sit there .


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## LB Landscaping (Sep 4, 2002)

Gesner I here ya. I was going to go with a GMC until I visited my local dealer. I can get an 03 Chevy 1 ton Dump for $26900 at the local Chevy dealer. The GMC dealer wants just over $36000 for the same truck (GMC version). Both have the same options, same engine size etc. I have always found GMC's to be a little pricier but thats ridiculous.:realmad:


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

LB same thing when i got my truck gmc dealer wanted more for the same speced truck.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

LB,

Sounds like something is missing here?  

There shouldn't be a $10K difference between a Chebby and a GMC. Now maybe the Chebby dealer has better contacts through his upfitter (dump body, accessories, etc) but still.... $10K???

Now if you told me one was a 6.0 4L80 4x2, and the other was a DMax, Allison 4x4, then definately a big difference.

Also consider options like seats, power windows/locks/seats, etc. Option packages, etc. There is a big difference here. $27K sounds like a real nice deal for an '03 4x4 dump, is he hiding something? Maybe that price includes your $5-7K trade in??? A lot of dealers advertise prices like that, and in small print say..."with your $x,xxx.xx trade in".


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## LB Landscaping (Sep 4, 2002)

TLS, its true. They have dumps that are very similar and both have the same options. Both are 6 liter automatics, AC, same rear ends, 8 ft dumps with power up and down, plow prep, tow package, HD Tranny, etc. No power windows, seats etc. The Chevy deal is as follows;
MSRP $34926 with GM loyalty rebate of $1000, additional GM rebate of $2000, $600 commercial rebate,a dn the dealer is offering another $4539 off makes the truck $26787. This price has nothing to do with trades or anything. This is the price if I go in with cash, if I bring my trade they will deduct the trade allowance (I'm sure they will try to screw me on the trade though. They have quite a few and I think they feel they will be stuck with them with all the stuff going on.


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## LB Landscaping (Sep 4, 2002)

Oh yaeh the GMC dealer has 1 truck, they chevy dealer has 12.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

*Well...Thats more like it then.*

$1074 is the difference in price. Thats about the average that they differ from Chevy to GMC. $1000 to $1500 more for almost identically optioned trucks. Though many agree that the extra spent on a GMC is cosmetically worth it. Especially in the '03 model year.

Sounds like your GMC dealership is more of the Pontiac/Buick/Olds/GMC type and probably doesn't sell many "TRUCKS". While your Chevy dealer is probably the opposite.

Betcha if you show the GMC dealer your quote from their competitor down at the Chevy dealer, he'd change his tune a bit. Maybe, maybe not.

I agree with cat320, order EXACTLY what you want, don't settle for a dealers sales managers order options on the lot.


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## LB Landscaping (Sep 4, 2002)

TLS actually neither dealer is a "Truck" dealer per say. The GMC dealer is exactly as you described but they do carry alot more trucks than cars, the Chevy dealer sells Chevys and Saabs. I told the GMC dealer what Chevy could offer me and he said his dump was worth more. Maybe but not that much!!!


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## GesnerLawn (Nov 30, 2002)

Cat320 - In my case, it would have cost me more to order because the cash back deal was only for vehicles in dealer stock. Also, I had to take delivery in 2002 for tax reasons. I was able to do a search for the truck I wanted on the GM website and then go to that dealer. 

Back in the early 90's I used to custom order Ford Econoline vans for the company I worked for and not once did I get one spec'd the way I'd ordered it.


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## LB Landscaping (Sep 4, 2002)

Well as much *****ing as I've done about the new Chevys I think I'm going to own one tomorrow. Got them down to $26000. I've been shopping and no one else can come close to this deal. Its less than most of the used stuff around here. The rebates and incentives are awesome right now (close to $7000) + low financing rates. If it works out I'll post some pictures for you all, just don't pick on my ugly truck too much!!!! LOL!!!


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## LB Landscaping (Sep 4, 2002)

Bought it tonight!!! Love it, the looks have grown on me. I'll post some pics soon.


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## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

Congrats LB Landscaping - good luck with your new truck! Post some pics soon!


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

If you think the 03 is ugly, wait till you see the concept truck for 07 on the front of Truck Trend. It makes the 03 look like beauty queen.
Dino


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

Oh great, more good news. I dont know why they have to change the look so often. The 01-02 model was perfect the way it looked. Why a drastic change after only 2 model years? I guess after a while the 03 can or will grow on me, as did the 01-02 look, but I dont see the reason for changing so often. The Ford Super Dutys have had that look for quite a while now and they didnt change it. Everyone likes it and they probably sold millions of them, so they left it alone. Like I mentioned in another post, I saw a red 03 Chevy 3500 dually the other day on the highway and it looked pretty nice. I think the new frontend treatment goes well with the dually for some odd reason. Just my oppinion. Dino, by the way, nice to see you posting again, havent seen you post in a while. Welcome Back! Mike :waving:


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

do the designers listen to any one?????? will buy old and refurbish them .


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

The F-150 will have a redesign for 04 and the super duties should follow in late 05-06
Dino


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## wolfie (Aug 14, 2001)

I think the outside looks better than the 03 and I like the idea of a tilt hood..but I don't care at all for the interior... I think I'll keep my 02 for a long long time though.


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