# Seasonal contracts (Driveways)



## Skispowder (Dec 21, 2016)

Hey all, this New Member having a blast reading all the the threads & all.
Looking for more insight on seasonal driveway plowing (& spreading) from the boyz & gals here.
I use to live in Mass, I did driveways for many years, moved and decided to put trucks out for municipal town...it was great ! 3:00 AM wake-up call for a 10 wheeler sanding - then, if needed switch to plows or just finish by 7:00Am & put feet up on sofa in shop (wood stove, TV & beers) and wait for employees to come into work (mostly demo)
Well, divorce ended that after a while, gave her the house, closed up shop & moved to N. Central Vermont. Well, different game on, $25 per pass vs $50-100 down south but, it snows a lot more here, so those prices don't fly. seasonal for driveways, I put out a rate of about $300 per season and people jumped on it for last 3 seasons, last year I plowed 5 times, this year probably 17, so I know there's no exact science to this thing we do, but I've heard of figures more like $350-500 for seasonal plow. (Spreading ? Well, I'll ask in another thread) I use to put out that 13 yard old Ford F9000 Sander at $85-90 an hour, for a North Shore MA town, but that was 20 years ago. The Question is: I'm now close to what I want for a client list, but going up from $300 to $500 Just won't fly. Do you think $350 would be justifiable ? Let me say, it's a fairly wearily town, but local people like me will work for ridiculous a low price in all aspects of work, from carpenter to lawyer. Did you guess the town yet ?


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

I'm not from your part of the country but holy carp I could not make numbers that low work for me. You plowed 17 times already this season so you were paid $17.64 per push. Last years numbers would be easier to swallow at $60 per push. i know a lot of guys do high volume at low rates to make it work but it doesn't sound like that's your case. They have tractors with inverted blowers and all the drives are stacked together so they are doing 100 drives in 4-5 hours, per machine, at $15 a pop to make the low pricing work.​


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

You have to see what the numbers are in your area, what the traffic will bear per say.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Randall Ave said:


> You have to see what the numbers are in your area, what the traffic will bear per say.


A little research in annual snowfall for the past 10yrs wood ben good two no befour diving into a reight too...
I seem to recall over in Grandview's area $300~ for a seasonal was the going reight for a in town drive that's 2 cars wide and 2 cars deep.


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## Skispowder (Dec 21, 2016)

Thanks keep info coming, good snow fall in Stowe this year, not light, and not huge like you big fellows see, but a good year for us skiers (not that I've had time to do any turns, much) ya think $350 would be more on track for next year ?


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## Skispowder (Dec 21, 2016)

Most of these people pay $20 -$30 per push from the other plow folks, things are a lot different here than I'm used to (but also Fellow Plowers are Way more friendly than in Mass-Ass, so yes asking around has been helpful, but just looking for your Guys/Gals Pro input.
Ps. Unlike Mass people that Plow, wave, give you contracts, buy you a coffee or beer, pull you out of the never ending side ditches...although not making the same $ as Mass, & it's a lot harder herein Vermont, the people make it a-a-ok, fer sure ! I used to get the finger in Mass, more than any hello's I get passing Any Plow !!!! ⛷
Really, it's an amazing difference...what a thing....nice people ! Haha.
Beats a shovel breaking my windshield plowing MA ass's - that's no tall tail


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Get soon of the other guys names. See if they have a web site, or how they advertise. Then try to get an idea of the average going rates.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

It all depends on what your annual snowfall is and what the competition is charging.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Once you get the going rate like Randall suggested, then hop on the National Weather Service site and look up the annual total snowfall and average event numbers for your particular town/area. Take that number of events from the NWS and multiply by the average price in your area.

A quick search of Stowe Vermont shows annual average snowfall of 114 inches per year. If your going to push 17 times per year, which is a very realistic number for your annual snowfall, then you should multiply the average price of a driveway by 17, plus a couple extra to cover yourself, to come up with the seasonal rate. Remember seasonal should cost the customer more than per push. They are getting a set price, and you take all the risk. They need to pay for that risk to you, and their piece of mind that they get with a seasonal.


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## Skispowder (Dec 21, 2016)

Excellent advice !
All comments and suggestions very thoughtful, constructive & appreciated...fer sure. 
I got myself into a tizzy overthinking this thing we do. 
A Formula on $ charged...that can be shared with clients as to how we come up with thesenumbers is great...instead of "well, some years it works great for you, other years not so much" 
I like it a lot...I can't wait to pull my Driveway Stakes this year...thank god for some Tips from clients (cookies, coffee, beer & some $) 
Thank you to the cool and knowledgeable Plowsite Peeps


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Why can't seasonal have limits 
Mine do you are in business to make money not break even or lose money


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> Why can't seasonal have limits
> Mine do you are in business to make money not break even or lose money


Our seasonal commercials do.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ktfbgb said:


> Remember seasonal should cost the customer more than per push. They are getting a set price, and you take all the risk. They need to pay for that risk to you, and their piece of mind that they get with a seasonal.


Uhhh.......you sure?

With a seasonal I am guaranteed $X.XX for the year, whether it snows or not.

With per push, there is a chance of 1 or 2 or 5 and I might not cover my costs.

Per push is a gamble, not seasonal.

My per push are all higher per time than if they pay for the season.

I have limits on my seasonals, I have to cover my costs if an extreme year happens.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Uhhh.......you sure?
> 
> With a seasonal I am guaranteed $X.XX for the year, whether it snows or not.
> 
> ...


Where is the KING of SEASONAL?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Uhhh.......you sure?
> 
> With a seasonal I am guaranteed $X.XX for the year, whether it snows or not.
> 
> ...


I price my seasonal lower than per push. They earn discounts for prepay, and multi year. I write very little per push, they end up being the ones that call and argue , they historically don't work for me.
Case in point...I signed a new 1 this year in Dec. She wanted to call when she wanted it done, always called at 4pm, truck is washed and Im home you go onto the next day. Didn't pay her Dec bill (first one, go figure) paid for Jan. Got her Feb bill and statement for Dec. Disputes Dec's bill.
I send her the emails and phone times she called and the Govt record of Daily snowfall amounts for the month of Dec. "Oh, I guess I'll pay it but I don't think I called that many times..." :angry:-Thank you!!


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Mr.Markus said:


> I price my seasonal lower than per push. They earn discounts for prepay, and multi year. I write very little per push, they end up being the ones that call and argue , they historically don't work for me.
> Case in point...I signed a new 1 this year in Dec. She wanted to call when she wanted it done, always called at 4pm, truck is washed and Im home you go onto the next day. Didn't pay her Dec bill (first one, go figure) paid for Jan. Got her Feb bill and statement for Dec. Disputes Dec's bill.
> I send her the emails and phone times she called and the Govt record of Daily snowfall amounts for the month of Dec. "Oh, I guess I'll pay it but I don't think I called that many times..." :angry:-Thank you!!


I've had one of those so far.
I wish I could get 100 customers like the owner of the Chinese Buffet I do. He tells me every Nov. when we sign the contract, "I hope you make easy money"!


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Uhhh.......you sure?
> 
> With a seasonal I am guaranteed $X.XX for the year, whether it snows or not.
> 
> ...


It is for me at least. Seasonal around here isn't very common but I push it on my residentials. And the way it has worked out for me is since I'm trying to cya the seasonal has always ended up being more than my per service accounts.

I guess I'm just in the mindset that residential snow removal is a luxury service for the privileged. And if those privileged customers want me to take care of their snow then I would prefer to charge seasonal so I'm not spending time billing for resi work. My old minimum charge for old clients is $75. The new is $85. So for a new customer the minimum seasonal charge is $1,400.00. Some go for it some don't. I'm dealing with very wealthy people though and a lot of them didn't get that way by wasting money. So they prefer to pay per service. They don't complain, and could care less how many times it snows, they just get Leary of paying for something they may not use.

That's how I see it. I want to be paid for every single time I drop my blade. So I don't gamble and overcharge for seasonal. I guess if I was competing with other guys over normal folks that aren't wealthy it might be different. I'm not saying you are wrong or any of the other guys that charge less for seasonal are wrong either. It's just the way I do things right now, and as I learn more about the business and my customers, and hopefully start to add equipment and routes, that mindset will most likely change. I'm not set in stone when it comes to business I try to stay fluid and adapt as I need too.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Ktfbgbsjipdenkf.

I look at it differently, I have a sales goal. Knowing my cost and what I can accomplish on a big snow,I try not to exceed it (work wise). What ever that # is, divide it out by your clientele and make it work. You take more of a risk on per push in a no snow year.
Explaining a seasonal to a client in a bad year is somthing I would prefer to do then explaining per push to my banker. One bad year is bad for your credit rating for a long time...


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Mr.Markus said:


> Ktfbgbsjipdenkf.
> 
> I look at it differently, I have a sales goal. Knowing my cost and what I can accomplish on a big snow,I try not to exceed it (work wise). What ever that # is, divide it out by your clientele and make it work. You take more of a risk on per push in a no snow year.
> Explaining a seasonal to a client in a bad year is somthing I would prefer to do then explaining per push to my banker. One bad year is bad for your credit rating for a long time...


That's very true. And as stated before, if I'm able to expand for the next season my mindset will change to what you and Mark talk about. Currently the only piece of equipment that is specific to snow is the plow on my truck. The rest is used all year so if it doesn't snow, I don't have equipment that is sitting around not generating revenue. If I expand then yes I will be setting sales goals to cover the cost of snow only equipment, and seasonal contracts will Help cover that cost. If I need to cover a certain cost per year I can see the need to sell seasonal at a discount to make sure you at least cover cost for the season. As I sit now all snow does is generate an extra $30,000 of revenue during winter when it's slow, using my truck and tractor that I already have.

My original point to the OP is I could never see $300 per working for me for a seasonal rate. To me it's too low. I have a drive that I charge $200 per service on, and another one that I charge $100 per service on. So in one snowfall I make the same amount of money on two drives in an hour and a half, that he makes all season on a single drive. It would be better for me to stay in bed for that kind of money.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

I get between $480 and $875 for a seasonal,depending on size. 6 month contract.
When I am selling them, I explain that what they are comparing it to is the per occurrence price where the minimum would be $30. If it snows 3/month they are saving money. They are also reserving a spot on the route. That many Co's don't do call out work and that we work till we are done and then go home, if you call after that you go on the next day list.
I explain to them that a large snow event can bring per occurrence prices into the $80-100 range.
And that makes the seasonal look pretty good.
Also have to explain to them that call out service (calling when you want us to come,no contract) is double what contract prices are.
I had two call outs this season. One I bid at $60, they gave me a $20 tip. Everybody else they called was over $100. We weren't there 15 min.
And one of the girls in the house is the graveyard waitress at the truck stop, not a bad contact to have!
The other was a country driveway that took about an hour, got $100 for it.
It was a nice sunny Sat. morning , my wife and I got lunch on the way home.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I get it, it sounds like you have the same market as me.
Small towns, bedroom communities for the city elite.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Randall Ave said:


> Where is the KING of SEASONAL?


Can I like this post twice? Really wish he was still around.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Randall Ave said:


> Where is the KING of SEASONAL?


Scotty got beamed up......


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Freshwater said:


> Can I like this post twice? Really wish he was still around.


He's elsewhere and witty / dry as every...


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