# Trying liquid salt for the first time.....



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

After many, many headaches with using bulk salt I finally made the decision to try salt brine. I'm just going with a gravity feed system for now just to see how it does and I like it. I sat down and talked with the guy who has done this for years and he was an honest down to earth guy who didn't try to tell me that salt brine is the end all be all for ice control which was nice to hear. (some one who didn't try to sell me something just to sell it). I know there was a lot of chatter on here about liquids and like usual the post either turned into something else or deleted, so PLEASE try to stay on the topic!. I will go step by step to make it easier to understand and the results. I am BY NO MEANS ANY EXPERT ON THIS SUBJECT but I'm just tired of trying to read these specific posts and they get hijacked with a bunch of useless comments. Here goes......I'm just using a 275 gallon skid tank, I am running from the tank a flexible (cool looking ,lol) 2" hose down to a Banjo manual shut of valve assembly into a 1 1/2" spreader bar. I drilled 1/4" holes every 4" in the bar. I might drill larger holes if need be but for now I'll try this set up. The brine has a 25% sodium chloride ratio. He said its good til' around -18F. There is a ton of stuff to know about using liquids so if you have a specific question PM me. We're supposed to get another blast of winter Thursday, Fri, Sat into Sunday. Hopefully I remember my camera! I just hope this helps some guys out, kind of a step by step. More to come soon.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

BTW Here are the prices I paid for everything so far

275 gal Skid tank $150.00

Material hose $2.80/ft (roughly 8ft)

2 Quick disconnect coupler assembly's $22.00 ea.

Manual shut off valve $45.00

Schedule 80 pvc 1 1/2" spreader bar and fittings and one "T" around $35.00


So far just under 300.00


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## JD657757 (Aug 8, 2008)

I bought one of metro melts units it works pretty good but still need some salt. I also wet the salt with it.


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2007)

Good thread, keep it coming
I am planning the same thing, What mix are you using? Are you making your own
brine? I would like to know how to do that
Thanks


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

brain , i tried the gravity feed system this summer, as an experiment..  if you want some more tips on it let me know


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## timberseal (Jul 24, 2008)

How many gallons a minute do you think you need to be able to put down? It's basically just salt water isn't it?


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## dannyslawn (Oct 29, 2007)

Are you using straight sodium chloride brine solutin? I thought salt wasn't very effective below 15 degrees F.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

elite1msmith;660414 said:


> brain , i tried the gravity feed system this summer, as an experiment.. if you want some more tips on it let me know


Absolutly! Its going all together today, just in time for a nice clipper system to move through.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

dannyslawn;660586 said:


> Are you using straight sodium chloride brine solutin? I thought salt wasn't very effective below 15 degrees F.


The mix is 75% salt brine and 25% chloride (thats what he told me)


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

JD657757;660382 said:


> I bought one of metro melts units it works pretty good but still need some salt. I also wet the salt with it.


Definetley still need rock salt! I found a hitch adaptor that has two, 2" receiver tubes, I'm running the spreader bar with a 2" male end in one of the holes and I'm running a small tailgate spreader in the other one. That will give me the set up I wanted.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

brain , here is what i learned. I have posted this before, ill do it one more time

Keep in mind this was all tested with water, and gravity , i truely dont knwo how it would preform with a thicker liquid like brine


4-6 inch spacing on the drilled holes.... on a sprayer with pressure, I know afew ppl say go with 10 inch spacing, but i found on gravity , since the "stream" really isnt a stream, it needs to be closer so 4-6 sounds good and looked correct to me 

add the size of your holes up. if your drilling 1/4 inch holes, every 4 inches 8 feet wide - 
32 holes X .25 = 8 inches id say your hole size is a little on the large size inorder to make sure that you get a consitant flow the holes must regulate how much comes out, not the boom size or the feed hose. So in this case you would need a combination of 8 inch hose (way big) if not you will be starving some of the holes for liquid and the stream will be more of a drip.

you should feed the boom in at least 2-3 locations, feeding a center tee only.... until the boom completely fills you will have uneven spray due to gravity , keep in mind your truck doesnt sit level 100% . now that would only work if your boom was that size (8 inches in yoru case)  you can feed it with mulitple hoses, as long as they all add to 8 inches. so a center tee, plus 2 fitiing on each end = 3 total feeds. if each feed is 2.5 inch hose, x 3 - 7.5 rounding thats close enought to 8 inches.... 

depending on how you place the feeds to the boom , and their size, you could skip on the 8 inch pipe and go way smaller. but it still needs that 8 inch feed to keep it flowing

the larger boom and hose you use, as well as the distance between the shut off valve and the boom , will determine how much will come out after you shut the system off. For me, i have heavy traffic lots,were i have to stop and go alot... even if i had the electronic valve , i figured that i would be wasting at least 1.5 gals each time i had to stop .... so i added the cost , and this is were i stopped the project and moved to a pressurized side of things


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Thanks elite! Heres what happend so far.....I drilled 3/16 holes every 4" apart. I didnt put the Banjo valve on yet, I just bought a gently used Fisher 1000 ( I still want to run rock salt) I am going to mount the larger Banjo valve on the rear of the spreader this weekend. We ran the hose directly from the tank down to the boom for now. We did a test run and holy crap it came out like I had a pressure system, I can easily run at 10mph and get great coverage. My boom is 88" wide total and so far so good with the flow. We're getting snow right now but I want to plow first then see how it does after plowing. I dont know if it comes out so well just because the tank is full but tonight I'll find out. I hope I can maintain the same flow all night.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

my set up is gonna be a magnum tailgate, plus the 9 foot boom spray , all electric let me know what you think of yours


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Hey guys, here are some results I had from my first time out with liquid. Sorry if this is jumbled, I've been up since midnight. Sorry no pics yet, but I think we can all get the jist of it. Here goes......The temp. was in the mid twenty's, we got about 2" of snow. I did learn you cant burn off snow as well as I thought you might be able to. I spread it on about 1 inch that was packed down and you could hear it popping under the ice but that was about it. When I came back about 20 minutes later it didnt do so hot. Second thing I learned, I need a electric shut off valve. I didnt hook up the manual valve yet (waiting for Fisher 1000 spreader) so I had to hustle to the bed and jump in and turn the valve off at the tank every time, (that sucked!!!!!!) and not safe. Right after the lot I was plowing was done I spread the liquid with great results! It even burned off the packed down tire tracks. Within minutes after applying the lots were wet, without any trace of snow or ice at all. I'm not sure of the rate of application but all I know is it pours out through the 3/16 holes and I could drive around 7-10 mph and still lay it down effectively. After we were done it snowed again about an inch or so and the places that we saturated with the liquid did get covered with the new snow but was bare again minutes after. One thing I did was just hang the spreader bar with yellow poly rope 14" from the bottom of my bumper. It looks ok and moves when I bumped a pile of snow while backing up, if it were mounted to something solid, I think it would stand a better chance of breaking. All in all I like it so far, it does a great job in the right conditions, its a lot cheaper than rock salt and there is no lifting. Once I get my electric valve, just flip a switch. One thing I definitely noticed....even the 275 gallon tank moved my truck back and forth while driving. I felt like I was on a ship,lol. Using the second tank tonight and a Dramamin pill for sea sickness,lol. The mix I was told is Salt Brine, Calcium Chloride, Potassium and some Magnesium mixed in.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

brain, the main reason that i didnt keep going with gravity , is the electric valve for like 2 inch plus hose is some big bucks... and there is still the waste factor after shutting the system off, if you need to stop due to traffic. just so you know, iv been too busy, but my pressurized system is almost done, i just need to get a tank


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

I hear ya about the price. The guy who sold me all of this other stuff will sell me a Banjo unit for 200.00. I dont think I'm going to spend the money right now, between buying a 2700.00 Downeaster that I'm not even using (its for sale), and then buying this set up, then a used Fisher 1000 for 400.00 I have about 4k wrapped up in ice control. My Wife would BEAT me if I spent another 200 bucks,lol. Plus if I like it the liquid this much I will look seriously into a pressure system for a 1 ton set up with a sidewalk hose system as well. I think when I mount the good manual shut off tomorrow, I'm going to mount it as close to the spreader bar as I can and to the left of the unit so all I have to do is come around the rear of the truck and there it is. I'll try tomorrow to get some pics. I'll be in a warm shop.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

why dont you try buying a long peace of threaded rod.... take off your tail gate,. and have the handle by the rear window...


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## baddboygeorge (Oct 20, 2002)

*brine recipe???*

whats that secret formula???


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## Spaulding425 (Dec 6, 2008)

*Sodium Chloride*

Hello Mr.Young!
I'm new to this site and was wondering if you could help me out with this liquid spreading! 
I have info about it but really don't understand the reading for NaCl 23% liquid. , Solid 
Gal/LM lb/LM
22 50 
Temperature Range 30-32


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## JeepPlow18 (Sep 4, 2006)

baddboygeorge;663649 said:


> whats that secret formula???


SHHHHH..... its a secret


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## Grn Mtn (Sep 21, 2004)

hey brian, you didn't mention if you lost pressure towards the end of the tank IE did it still flow out at the same rate with 50 gallons left in the tank versus when full with 250 gallons?

I like how your starting out low tech, do you think you could rig up a manual stop valve that would work from your trucks cab by using parts from an old bicycle or mower - the brake/throttle cable? Might be a way to shut the flow off with out spending anymore money for the short term.....

does your liquid provider know what he is giving you? from the way you have presented it, it almost sounds like he puts a little of that and a little of this in. if so how will you get consistant results if his product is not consistant? I'm sure this is not the case but did want to mention it just in case.

please keep posting, and throw some picts up will ya!, jeeze like you have something better to do


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## L70 (Dec 6, 2007)

love to know about that formula?


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## Snowguy01 (Jul 23, 2007)

go buy a electric valve from tractor supply they are cheap and work good


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## SuperBlade (Aug 27, 2008)

i disaggree....i tried one and after 2 runs i had to take it apart and clean it....salt=dirty;


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Grn Mtn;664009 said:


> hey brian, you didn't mention if you lost pressure towards the end of the tank IE did it still flow out at the same rate with 50 gallons left in the tank versus when full with 250 gallons?
> 
> I like how your starting out low tech, do you think you could rig up a manual stop valve that would work from your trucks cab by using parts from an old bicycle or mower - the brake/throttle cable? Might be a way to shut the flow off with out spending anymore money for the short term.....
> 
> ...


Grn Mtn, Whats up. I figure so far I'm only loosing about a gallon max. and I stop where it's going to be beneficial to pour extra on (at the highest point of the lot). I dont loose pressure when the tank is low at all which is nice, only when there is about 25 gallons left but....I have a dump bed insert so I just bump it up a little and it just about drains the entire tank.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Brian, how are the holes working out in the spray bar. was 3/16 a good size


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

Brian Young;668855 said:


> Grn Mtn, Whats up. I figure so far I'm only loosing about a gallon max. and I stop where it's going to be beneficial to pour extra on (at the highest point of the lot). I dont loose pressure when the tank is low at all which is nice, only when there is about 25 gallons left but....I have a dump bed insert so I just bump it up a little and it just about drains the entire tank.


How about some pictures!!!!!!

Thanks Mike


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Superior L & L;669488 said:


> Brian, how are the holes working out in the spray bar. was 3/16 a good size


They seem to be working great! It comes out pretty much like a pressurized system. I drilled them every 4 inches. I am going to try making a different bar just to try something new. I will let you know how it comes out soon. Hopefully I can get started this week while we have a small break in the weather. I will definetely let you know how it works out and what i did.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

flykelley;669713 said:


> How about some pictures!!!!!!
> 
> Thanks Mike


I know, I know,lol In the next couple of days I will get some. Still trying to clean up my mowers and other equip. and get it into storage.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

how this one coming along?


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

elite1msmith;672941 said:


> how this one coming along?


The new bar was a complete waste of time! I put together the same bar and instead of drilling holes I tried actual nozzles, yeah dont waste your time. The nozzles were SUPPOSED to spray a 6-8" fan pattern and still keep a good amount of pressure. I drilled and tapped 5 or 6 holes and my original set up blows this away. It was a steady stream but didnt fan out hardly at all. We even tried lowering the nipples so they were flush with the pipe but it didnt change anything. I have another option with nozzles but I have to wait for the guy to get back to me. He said they were made just for gravity fed systems but we'll see. so far this gravity system works great and with the original spreader bar it has tons of pressure. The only thing I am adding is a Banjo electric shut off valve. I'm going to keep the original manual shut off valve to regulate the flow and use the electric valve to obviously turn it on and off. Other than that I'm happy with the final out come and I didnt spend 4k!!!! I have maybe 400 bucks into this system. Here are some pics.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Nice Shut Off Valve ! LOL 

were is the spray bar pics


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Superior L & L;679447 said:


> Nice Shut Off Valve ! LOL
> 
> were is the spray bar pics


Whats wrong with the shut off valve? The spray bar is just schedule 80 pvc 1 1/2" nothing special.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Brian Young;679470 said:


> Whats wrong with the shut off valve? The spray bar is just schedule 80 pvc 1 1/2" nothing special.


Nothing, i hope you didnt think i was giving you sh!t. That is cool that you can have a spreader and liquid on one truck


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## zabMasonry (Oct 13, 2007)

can you put some baffles in the tank to reduce the amount of force it exerts when you stop/star/turn.


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## hedhunter9 (Nov 15, 2008)

Maybe try some foam inserts inside the tank, Like they use in race cars to prevent sloshing.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

zabMasonry;681167 said:


> can you put some baffles in the tank to reduce the amount of force it exerts when you stop/star/turn.


Yeah, but the original "Baffel Balls" wont fit. I tried softball wiffle balls (100 of them) and it didnt make a real difference. I'm going to try like some one said before, corrigated flexable sewer pipe. Cut them into pieces that will fit under the lid and stuff as many as I can fit. I was going to try foam blocks but I would think the foam would break down over time and plug the electric valve. I'm hopefully going to a bigger tank next year and them the actual Baffel Balls will fit. I almost went to a low pro tank with a huge opening for filling but then I would have lost head pressure and needed a pump. It never ends does it.lol


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

I know I am bumping alot of old liquid threads but I am interested in how things turned out last season for you with the gravity only setup.


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## Brad3403 (Sep 8, 2008)

Would someone mind submitting photos of a complete "working" setup. Please and thanks.


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## SuperBlade (Aug 27, 2008)

*go all liquid!!!*

I'll get some pics up here im just on another computer, but you should pump it. you can shut it off. adjust your pressure/volume. and change your spray patterns.

I didnt use a 1 grandular of salt last year!!!!


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## SuperBlade (Aug 27, 2008)

*this one is for terrapro*

i think its the best. saved me a ton of money on salt. didnt have to get out of the truck. worked faster and worked at colder degree temps than regular salt!... only problem was not the dulutation but the fact that the water was slushing around too much( blew my tranny out) and could not hold enough. I have made some big changes to my sprayer this year, including my tanks, and the product that I produce!


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

SuperBlade;811004 said:


> I'll get some pics up here im just on another computer, but you should pump it. you can shut it off. adjust your pressure/volume. and change your spray patterns.
> 
> I didnt use a 1 grandular of salt last year!!!!


Okay, well I could but my delema is do I buy an electric valve for $400 or an electric motor for $400?

I have a gas engine hooked up to a centrifugal pump but no valve for shut off capabilities inside the cab. But for the price of a 2" valve I could just go all electric and not have to deal with the gas engine in the cold.

I have 325gal lowprofile tank and baffles for stability. Insted of buying another V-box I was going to utilize what I have.


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## SuperBlade (Aug 27, 2008)

*electric valve*

is their a tractor supply close. The first thing that I did was use one that they have for like 70. Mount it close to end of the spray bar.....or what i use(volume and better coverage) 1 fan nozzle. If it mounted close to the end you wont lose any product.....you also need a strain if your making your own brine....because at first when i used brine...the electric valve clogged after each salt run....Now i use a better, cleaner, stronger product. so I dont have that problem...like with brine you get pieces of rock salt and dirt, and rocks, and everything else..go with the motor but make sure the brine dont get to it because there is alot of dift coming off the back of the truck....you'll be surprised!...ok another class...ill talk to you later


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

SuperBlade;811091 said:


> is their a tractor supply close. The first thing that I did was use one that they have for like 70. Mount it close to end of the spray bar.....or what i use(volume and better coverage) 1 fan nozzle. If it mounted close to the end you wont lose any product.....you also need a strain if your making your own brine....because at first when i used brine...the electric valve clogged after each salt run....Now i use a better, cleaner, stronger product. so I dont have that problem...like with brine you get pieces of rock salt and dirt, and rocks, and everything else..go with the motor but make sure the brine dont get to it because there is alot of dift coming off the back of the truck....you'll be surprised!...ok another class...ill talk to you later


If I could find a good 2" electric vlave at TSC I would be very happy. I will go check later today and report back.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

terrapro;810291 said:


> I know I am bumping alot of old liquid threads but I am interested in how things turned out last season for you with the gravity only setup.


Tis the season! All in all things went very well. The only complaints I have are minor, 1st I need a bigger storage tank, my 4- 300 gallon skid tanks are gone in a storm or two. 2nd, I need a different truck or tank. The 300 gallon skid tank sloshed back and forth too much, I bet my tranny would be shot by the end of this season if I keep that tank. But for the good....It was cheaper, it worked just as well as rock salt, I didnt have to get out of my truck (I bought an electric shut off valve) and easier to get from my supplier. Well worth the small investment imo!! One thing I will say is if your gonna do liquid, even a gravity system, spend the money on good equipment like Banjo valves and fittings. They may be a few bucks more but its nice knowing all connections are tight and the valve is made for salt brine so no worrying about corrosion etc.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

Thanks for the responses. I am still undecided on the valve for gravity or gas or an electric motor?


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## corbel (Oct 13, 2008)

One of the things I am curious to hear about is how the application rate compares with granular? For instance if you were putting down 5 80lb bags, how many gallons does that translate into. I would like to test it on a few small locations. But I would like to know what size test system to start with. I have 3 or 4 lots that are approx 2500 sqft each. So lets assume 4 @ 2500 equals 10000 sqft. I need to be able to make it thru at least one full run, so how many gallons would I be looking at approx? I was thinking of doing a 50 gal setup just to test it which would leave me with about 10-12 gallons per 2500 lot. Thanks for any info, site is great, has helped with my learing curve tremendously.


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## Bigmikesseasonal (Apr 7, 2007)

terrapro;812009 said:


> Thanks for the responses. I am still undecided on the valve for gravity or gas or an electric motor?


 Terrapro, I have a gas powered Honda with a Ace Eco pump with a pressure regulator! This is my 4 yr on liquids only!


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

corbel;839217 said:


> One of the things I am curious to hear about is how the application rate compares with granular? For instance if you were putting down 5 80lb bags, how many gallons does that translate into. I would like to test it on a few small locations. But I would like to know what size test system to start with. I have 3 or 4 lots that are approx 2500 sqft each. So lets assume 4 @ 2500 equals 10000 sqft. I need to be able to make it thru at least one full run, so how many gallons would I be looking at approx? I was thinking of doing a 50 gal setup just to test it which would leave me with about 10-12 gallons per 2500 lot. Thanks for any info, site is great, has helped with my learing curve tremendously.


We have a few smaller lots that we used 3 80lb bags before. If I remember right we now use aprox. 35 gallons of liquid. 3- 80lb bags=$21.00.....35 gallons of liquid=$7.00. I would start out with a 275 skid tank. I dont think a 50 gallon set up would be worth the effort. You could buy a skid tank for around 100 bucks and you still have to spend the same $ for the rest of the set up any ways.


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## ChlorideGuy (Nov 24, 2008)

Hey guys i like what im hearing on here about LIQUIDS I however dont think the 75% salt brine and 25% calcium is going to work very well at all with that high of a sodium content i belive you will see some freezing later in the year. not trying to sell any material here just trying to educate. Mike


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## mlbock (Feb 22, 2007)

here, check out our brine applicator!! it's ready to roll and cost $1100 total. there all over the place, you just gotta know where to look!


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