# Checking my numbers on this lot.



## srl28 (Jan 2, 2006)

This is a lot we have for landscape work. Good guy, pays well and on time. Interested in us plowing the lot for him. One side houses a delivery service that is very strict about snow. Second a trace of accumulation appears they expect someone there so its pretty much a no tolerance property. 2 walkways about 100 ft each and one thats about 50ft. Needs salt per push. Wants a per push price or per event price, he isnt sure yet, wants to see the prices (??? dont ask). Ask away if you have any questions but right now I'm looking to see what you guys think and what kind of prices you would charge. Like my other thread goin now, I have a price laid out and in my head but before we submit our final quote/bid I want to see what you guys think its worth. Thanks for your help!


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

Will,

Whats the SQFT ? of pavement......


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

Also wondering sq ft. Top of my head I'm thinking $4-500 for all, salt incl.


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

Would be a lot easier if you would tell us the price you have in mind, then we can tell you if we think its reasonable. And yes, sq. ft. of pavement would help.


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## srl28 (Jan 2, 2006)

Dont have the square footage on me now, Should have it tuesday. just lookin for ballpark prices now to get a better idea of things and see where we re at.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

You have the address, just measure it on Google earth.


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## srl28 (Jan 2, 2006)

Found some notes here at home from a while back when I looked at it and its roughly 82k in pavement to be cleared.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

That being the case, I second my original top of my head guess. What are you thinking $$ wise?


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## srl28 (Jan 2, 2006)

I was at about 650 rough guess price. Dont think it would take too long. Lot has no curbs, easy to push, flat and open. Loading docks are level and not pitched towards the building, etc


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

Hey man if you think they'll go for it, by all means. Conservatively I think you could do it for less and still make a good buck in a couple hours.............................around here the lowballers would be bidding that for $150-200, literally.


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## srl28 (Jan 2, 2006)

Unfortunately your right, and I'm sure they would do the same here. We do the landscaping and someone else has done the snow for the past few years. We just took over the landscaping this year. Who knows but the ex-landscaper could be the snow guy too for all I know and I'm bidding against him. (only saying that because Ive got a feeling thats the case lol). I'm thinking we would be fine at like 350-400 salt included even


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

I say best thing to do is bid it where you need to be making $$. If you have a decent relationship with the customer with mowing and stuff, just tell him that you don't want to lose the account over a few bucks so let you know if your price is within reason. Assure him that going with one company for all services will be easier for them.


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

got-h2o;1096150 said:


> Hey man if you think they'll go for it, by all means. Conservatively I think you could do it for less and still make a good buck in a couple hours.............................around here the lowballers would be bidding that for $150-200, literally.


man... please keep them in your area.... lol


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

How long do you think this would take you? 3-4 hours for one guy with completing the walks as well?

I'd be about $280 for the plowing. but I would bid it at $270, just because I like my bids to be 30's or 70's. I could explain my reason, but you would probably just think I'm crazy and over analyzed it.. lol..

If I was bidding this I would also talk to whoever is in charge of excepting the bids about the salting. I would tell them that I believe salting EVERYTHING after EVERY storm is a waste of money. I would also say that I can see focusing on higher traffic areas or problem ice areas. I would also say that I would be happy to salt the entire area as requested or as needed based on what they prefer. 

I have found this goes a long way because it shows you truly care about there best interest and not just your own. Many times you will hear back, "No, we just want it everything salted every time, we just don't want problems.", but sometimes you won't.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

lawnlandscape;1096184 said:


> man... please keep them in your area.... lol


Not snow related, but how's this for an example. We do all kinds of work to stay busy. A guy I know was looking for a price to do a fence. Quite a bit involved, mostly labor and he was going to buy most of the materials. I was going to bring the Bobcat with the auger, whatnot. 35 or so holes, mixing concrete, you know the routine. He wanted to expand to the property line which would include removing a few smaller trees, tear down an old wood fence, disposal, etc. Nice little 3-4 day gig. I quoted $3k to do the job. Wanna guess what another guy told him!?!? $275!!!! Yes, two hundred seventy five dollars. I wouldn't set my alarm for that.

Luckally he didn't trust the lowball price, but still. Now he wants to hold off, so still not sure if I will get it either.


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

got-h2o;1096189 said:


> Not snow related, but how's this for an example. We do all kinds of work to stay busy. A guy I know was looking for a price to do a fence. Quite a bit involved, mostly labor and he was going to buy most of the materials. I was going to bring the Bobcat with the auger, whatnot. 35 or so holes, mixing concrete, you know the routine. He wanted to expand to the property line which would include removing a few smaller trees, tear down an old wood fence, disposal, etc. Nice little 3-4 day gig. I quoted $3k to do the job. Wanna guess what another guy told him!?!? $275!!!! Yes, two hundred seventy five dollars. I wouldn't set my alarm for that.
> 
> Luckally he didn't trust the lowball price, but still. Now he wants to hold off, so still not sure if I will get it either.


By 'hold off' does he really mean, 'get more bids'?

Ya, sometimes when I see crazy numbers like that thrown around I say to myself.. ok.... Are they joking... are they stupid.... or did they inherit a bunch of money and just trying to doing something with their time.


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## Kollen Parsons (Oct 21, 2010)

"Second a trace of accumulation appears they expect someone there so it's pretty much a no tolerance property"

Make sure you clarify this! A clear understanding of expectations is critical to success and your bottom line! The numbers could double or more if "RISK" services are what they are anticipating.

Per Push / Per Event - How do they interpret this? As everyone knows, I'm sure, there are plenty of property managers that do not truly understand these services and the complications involved with bidding and billing them. Some managers pass it down to their assistants to "get it done". The assistant will look for the best price to make the boss happy but misunderstand what services are actually being offered by the vendor. It's bad for everyone!

There are tons of very sharp property managers and it may be the vendor that doesn't understand. Remember, property managers know where their bottom line is. If they've been there for a season, they know what they need! The really good ones know exactly what is needed - even on new properties.

We've seen thousands of specs and forms of contract verbiage, good and bad. READ IT....UNDERSTAND IT.....and make it a point to sit down and talk through it with them. After all, that's what a good contractor should do.

Sorry I'm lecturing!

I've had several clients say that no vendor has made the effort to actually talk with them about snow expectations. It may look black and white in the specification but there's one word that changes everything. Taking the time to have that conversation has educated many managers and won us several accounts!

Your Bid: there will be a minimum of three to four man/equipment hours for this site (w/o travel time) - Three to plow, depending on what you use, and 1 to shovel and de-ice walks. 
Are you including all of the access and fire doors in the shoveling sqft? 
How about the detail work/clearing along the building? 
Zero Tolerance means "exposed "slip free" asphalt or concrete surface".
If you are comfortable breaking down the numbers, break out a sidewalk de-ice trip, lot de-ice trip and/or put in a T&M clause for it to help with the upfront sticker shock!


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

$200 per push....
$150 per salting...
$ 50. per shoveling...
Seasonal: $4000-5000
The problem is 1 inch of dry snow is easy, 10 inches of wet cement could take awhile. (with a truck)
I typically bid in increments, so my numbers were based on average conditions that we'd face back here in southern Wisconsin.
As far as telling the customer service would be better by using the same contractor year round, that shouldn't really matter. If you do go work in the summer, then you do go work.
Have you ever asked guys like (JD Dave) how many lawns he mows just so he can plow their lots in winter...


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## srl28 (Jan 2, 2006)

Blowerman-so far your numbers seem to be the most realistic on this site. I really cant see how this lot would take anyone 4 hours! We would probably have either a 8, 8.5, or 9ft plow here. Either 350 or 450 size truck.

Theres no "property manager" exactly. We deal with the guy that owns the building and thats it. Pretty straight forward and simple so thats good


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## Kollen Parsons (Oct 21, 2010)

Good Luck......and be sure to CYA! 

Zero Tolerance WILL kick you in the @$$ if you havn't covered the nut in the proposal.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

blowerman;1096815 said:


> $200 per push....
> $150 per salting...
> $ 50. per shoveling...
> Seasonal: $4000-5000
> ...





srl28;1096884 said:


> Blowerman-so far your numbers seem to be the most realistic on this site. I really cant see how this lot would take anyone 4 hours! We would probably have either a 8, 8.5, or 9ft plow here. Either 350 or 450 size truck.
> 
> Theres no "property manager" exactly. We deal with the guy that owns the building and thats it. Pretty straight forward and simple so thats good


I agree with the per push price. About $400......basically exactly where I was at on the low end. BUT only 10x for seasonal? I'd double that.


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

srl28;1096884 said:


> Blowerman-so far your numbers seem to be the most realistic on this site.


:crying: My snow removal numbers were $20 higher then blowermans. :crying:


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## straightlinelan (Mar 9, 2008)

if you are talking zero tolerance and you are thinking 10 visits per year you will lose your @$$ and your home. I am south of chicago and do quite a few zero tolerance, we are plowing, salting, and cleaning up the lots 50x per season. My definition and my clients definintion of zero tolerance is they do not want to see snow on their parking lot. There are storms we are servicing those lots 4 or 5 times in a 24 hr. period of time. Just a little fyi.


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## srl28 (Jan 2, 2006)

I never said a thing about 10 events per year and not sure who started that in the thread. I understand what zero tolerance means, just saying what the customer was looking for. The property owner has had plenty of calls in the past asking where the plow guy was, when it was gonna get plowed, etc and hes tired of it, thus the opportunity for us to bid on it.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

Kollen Parsons;1096917 said:


> Good Luck......and be sure to CYA!
> 
> Zero Tolerance WILL kick you in the @$$ if you havn't covered the nut in the proposal.


Wow, do I detect a negative Nancy?

Zero tolerance isn't the end of the word. Besides, aren't we all snow professionals here?
I have a very active medical office (day hours) that needs almost zero tolerance. 
As far as controlling snow build up. During bigger daytime snows they might have a few clearings. As far as salt, I find several lighter saltings can handle the job instead of caking on heavy salt applications. Since I work in very tight routes, travel is minimal and yes, I do absorb some of the cost if multiple visits are needed.


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## DirtyJerzey (Dec 21, 2007)

3-350 for first plow bracket and then up from there including walkways. $185-$225 per salt app. Seasonal price based on rough numbers I would say around 6k a year, if they really want zero tolerance snow then bump it up a little for seasonal


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

I'd be in the ballpark with blowerman, I'd go 250,Plow, 250 Salt and 55 Shovel, with Calcium @ 50 a bag.


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## fishgeek (Sep 10, 2010)

Hi Blowerman

I'm just getting back into plowing and i have seem many people say for salting about 20lbs per 1000 sq ft.
Is this correct? They said that the lot was 82,000 sq ft. I figure it would take about 33- 50lbs bags of salt and at 15.00 per bag applied would be 495.00 per salting. I'm I way of base seeing you quoted 125.00 for salting. Help, Help I think I'm going crazy trying to figure this stuff out

Thanks guys


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

Geek,

We figure 1000lbs, or 1/2 ton per acre. Simplies the math a bit. 

We do per App saltings, so if we put down 1/4 ton, 3/8 ton or 1/2 ton it's the same price. Unless you have a truck mounted scale you're doing best guess billing charging by the lb. Even then I wonder how accurate a scale is...............


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## fishgeek (Sep 10, 2010)

So your saying you just pull a number out of the air for your price


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

blowerman;1096815 said:


> $200 per push....
> $150 per salting...
> $ 50. per shoveling...
> Seasonal: $4000-5000
> ...


I agree with these prices. I am a few towns over.


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