# Diesel vs. Gas



## MJLsLawnCareNmo (Nov 3, 2004)

Regardless of truck manufacturer, which do you guys prefer for plowing either gas or diesel powered trucks? Why?


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## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

No brainerwesportwesport


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Diesel -

Because it's what I own.


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## tman3007 (Jul 15, 2007)

Diesels can push those monster piles of snow so much better with that low end torque


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## 02DURAMAX (Dec 27, 2006)

You have soo much more torque to push any pile that get in your way with a diesel!!!


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

Torque pushing snow and pulling trailers

30% more bang for the buck


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

For the average person/buisness ower I would say gas. For the fleet people with 2500 series trucks what do they mostly run?? You guessed it gas. Over and over it is a prooven fact in the long run not given the right conditions the gasser truck will save you cash. Not this year of next but in the law of averages.

Yes the diesel trucks are the work horses in the industry, flat out they will out preform outlast and get much better fuel mileage. Unless the truck is hooked up to a trailer 75% of the time, hauling at least 4500lb 60% of the time or 50 000km/30 000miles a year save your cash buy the gasser. Yes boys will have thier toys and the diesels are the cool, but the law of averages will catch up to you. 

Learned this info from a old timer who has been around the block to say the least. I thought he was crazzy and didn't understand the benifits of the diesels. But in the long run he hit the nail right on the head. For the extra costs of puchasing, oil, repairs and running the cord to it during the cold months eat away at the savings. Yes the newer trucks have extended plans on injector pumps and engines but this is where the savings of the diesels really kick in. Just as you have to spend a small fortune on the new injectors or pump.

Love the diesel trucks. But the bottom line is profit!!!!

DAFF


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## GMSNOW (Aug 11, 2006)

I agree diesel will give you better gas mileage and more low end torque. But for example a Dodge 3/4 ton diesel will cost approx. $7000 more and the cost of diesel fuel currently .25-.30 more per gallon. So the increased gas mileage is greatly offset by the higher cost of fuel and the truck itself is much more expensive.

You have to consider do you really need the diesel? How much do you tow? How big are the lots you are plowing. At the end of last season we had to snow falls in the 10-12 inch range and my '04 3/4 ton Dodge Hemi - gas did just fine.

My 2 cents.
GMSNOW


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

Yes the diesel trucks are the work horses in the industry, flat out they will out preform outlast and get much better fuel mileage. Unless the truck is hooked up to a trailer 75% of the time, hauling at least 4500lb 60% of the time or 50 000km/30 000miles a year save your cash buy the gasser. Yes boys will have thier toys and the diesels are the cool, but the law of averages will catch up to you.

Love the diesel trucks. But the bottom line is profit!!!!

DAFF[/QUOTE]

Valid points Daff

You been lookin' in our yard again

Our 05 goes out with 4750 lbs trailer load of mowers & trailer in the summer each day 5 to 6 days a week.

Currently a $10,000 CDN option, but we keep the truck for life. . . so $1000 per year extra cost. That's up against 30% fuel savings. Doing the arithmatic, if we spend $3333 in diesel a year per truck (heck we do that in the winter alone) then it's a good idea for us, cause we would have spent $4333 in gas. On top of that we get the torque 

for driveways and part-time yes stay with gas


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## Wiseguyinc (Jan 31, 2007)

*......*

I realize gas is cheaper today.But gas changes price every other day in my area.Diesel has been the same for 3 months.Gas was 70cents a gal higher this summer and now diesel is 50 cents a gallon higher. It all evens out these days.It is friggen expensive to drive either one! I like diesels for plowing. I like diesels for a work truck.For a daily driver putt around town truck,gas is better.


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Yep with those numbers you are doing good. But ...... when you have a no start bring your check book. There goes the fuel savings. It seems as you drive you save money in fuel savings and in time you will need to spend money in repairs. The extra cost of repairs will eat all the fuel savings. Its just a visious circle. Although sometimes you get lucky and get a good one, (diesel)saving a fortune. Only time will tell. 

There is one thing to consider. As the cost per litre of fuel increases the savings per mile will increase, this will greatly effect the bottom line. As diesel nears 2.00 per litre the diesel will win hands down. Still have to do the math. But in Europe thats all they use.( ie smart car) Once again time will tell

DAFF


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

We have been remarkably lucky (talanted) with diesel repairs. To heck with the check book bring your 3rd born child ( she hangs over the engine compartment and hands wrenches to me). Drive trains are first on our list engines are near the bottom. and for Pete's sake stop talking about $2.00 diesel you'll give them ideas


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## Fordtruckman88 (Nov 28, 2007)

i would say the diesel especially when you are plowing two wal marts old navy and warehouses


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

i'm not even sure if diesels last longer anymore. theoretically they should. i see gas motors getting more and more miles on them now so i am beginning to wonder. seen some diesels needing rebuilding before two hundred k. 
not to mention a gas motor is much cheaper to rebuild or replace. By the time a truck hits two hundred k you probably wont want it anymore anyway. Other upkeep expenses and questions on reliability or body issues. 

i like diesels. i am not so sure they are better cost wise.
gas seems easier to maintain and has less headaches also. 
just my opinion.


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## kcplowmata (Sep 15, 2007)

gas for me too. my guys take my trucks home ahead of a storm. if i trusted them to plug a diesel in it would never happen. so atleast i know theyll start on a cold a$# night.now my equipment i love diesel but pickups gas for me


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

kcplowmata;442417 said:


> gas for me too. my guys take my trucks home ahead of a storm. if i trusted them to plug a diesel in it would never happen. so atleast i know theyll start on a cold a$# night.now my equipment i love diesel but pickups gas for me


Plug them in??? I haven't plugged in a diesel since '99. Even when it's -25 here in MN, we leave them unplugged, never had a problem with the Cummins.

I've had a 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005 and now (2) 2006 Dodge diesels.


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

bribrius;442401 said:


> i'm not even sure if diesels last longer anymore. theoretically they should. i see gas motors getting more and more miles on them now so i am beginning to wonder. seen some diesels needing rebuilding before two hundred k.
> not to mention a gas motor is much cheaper to rebuild or replace. By the time a truck hits two hundred k you probably wont want it anymore anyway. Other upkeep expenses and questions on reliability or body issues.
> 
> i like diesels. i am not so sure they are better cost wise.
> ...


Our last diesel lasted 12 years and about 2400 plowing hours plus regular summer work. We might have done 120 miles in 16 hour session so mileage doesn't count with us


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## NLS1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Diesel all the way. They may or may not save you any money, but have you driven the same truck back to back with gas and a diesel? An extra 200+lb ft of torque at low rpms is worth the extrapayup unless you really don't use your truck for anything other than light plowing and as a commuter. I would not buy another gas truck except for a backup or for my wife to drive the kids around in, were the extra cost really isn't justified.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

I have found the resale better on diesel.

bribus "By the time a truck hits two hundred k you probably wont want it anymore anyway."

I'll buy cummins 5.9's any day with 200k... I have 3 and all have 300+ kms on them... the one truck in the pic 2001 has plowed since new, so bak and forth back and forth that truck probably really has like 450 000kms on it. Truck is probably still worth 10 grand without the plow.
I haven't even done a tranny on it yet and its a dodge. 

I would rather buy a 2 year old diesel any brand off mr retired guy rather then a new gasser. gas here is $1.05 and diesel is $.97 / litre
Around here all I see on used car lots is black hemi dodges with the 20 inch rims... you cant be getting a good trade in value when there are like 5 on every lot.


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

Mines at 174k and you would never guess by driving it.

The only downside I can think of is that diesels like to eat up transmissions with all that torque, but thats not so much an issue with the newer trucks I'm told


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Ok someone is going to get it. Just after bashing the diesels and talking about expensive repairs not ten min later I get Miked. Hey Daff I'm stranded on the side of the road come get me. What wrong?? The truck just died, like somone turned off the key. Fuel issue I thought. ........ Nope turns out I'm going to be putting a 6.5l turbo diesel in the 3500hd. This rebuild lasted a whopping 70 000km, now I have a 7000lb paperweight and snow in the forcast. Been busting my a$# putting the finishing touches on the Dodge. Wasn't in a rush to finish it for it was only to be a spare.

Haven't had time to pull the pan off the 6.5 but she is lock up. Better luck next time I guess.

DAFF


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

Real sorry to hear about the '93

If it makes you feel any better our '93 passed away in '05 same symptoms.

It _is_ a 15 year old work truck

(maybe you shouldn't have been bashing the diesels _it heard you_)


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## bowtie_guy (Jan 1, 2004)

I love pushin with my d-max. Extra weight I think helps with the pushing power. I won't buy another gas truck after owning this truck. I haul my 5th wheel around like it isn't back there. I can haul my 25 foot gooseneck trailer loaded and it doesn't complain.

Here she is hauling doubles. wesport


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## graycenphil (Mar 4, 2006)

I agree that diesels are better vehicles, and I also agree that they are too expensive and not as reliable as they should be and cost way too much to repair.

But then I run my diesel on used vegetable oil, and you can't do that with a gas truck.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

GMSNOW;442103 said:


> I agree diesel will give you better gas mileage and more low end torque. But for example a Dodge 3/4 ton diesel will cost approx. $7000 more and the cost of diesel fuel currently .25-.30 more per gallon. So the increased gas mileage is greatly offset by the higher cost of fuel and the truck itself is much more expensive.
> 
> You have to consider do you really need the diesel? How much do you tow? How big are the lots you are plowing. At the end of last season we had to snow falls in the 10-12 inch range and my '04 3/4 ton Dodge Hemi - gas did just fine.
> 
> ...


You took the words right out of my mouth.


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

mileage, torque, durability, period.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

With the duramax you get the allison. If the allison came with a 6L I might consider a gas. We keep our trucks untill they are worth nothing, so the extra upfront money doesn't bother me. We also do all our own maintenace so the cost isn't really much more then a gas. I do agree though if you start to have problems, it can be costly.


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## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

I'll never buy another gas truck again.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

I've got the a duramax and I love it. But I do see some of the points here on this thread about if its worth the extra 8000$ or roughly that. We keep our trucks for about 3-4 years and that means that its about an extra $2,286 a year. We went from a gas to a diesel this last time, and I think its great having it when I'm hauling my boat on a 7 hour trip to upstate New York or whatever. But I'm sure the gas would have no problem doing that either. 
I've been thinking about weather or not to go with another diesel a lot lately since the time to update our truck is getting near. We spent about $450 in diesel last month for ONE truck. And we don't even go outside of about 3 towns around us. I also find that when I'm trying to push a pile (either with gas or diesel) I loose traction much before I loose power. 

But odds are I will end up with another diesel because of the allison issue, and they're just real cool lol.


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## Duracutter (Oct 25, 2006)

merrimacmill;442872 said:


> I've got the a duramax and I love it. But I do see some of the points here on this thread about if its worth the extra 8000$ or roughly that. We keep our trucks for about 3-4 years and that means that its about an extra $2,286 a year. We went from a gas to a diesel this last time, and I think its great having it when I'm hauling my boat on a 7 hour trip to upstate New York or whatever. But I'm sure the gas would have no problem doing that either.
> I've been thinking about weather or not to go with another diesel a lot lately since the time to update our truck is getting near. We spent about $450 in diesel last month for ONE truck. And we don't even go outside of about 3 towns around us. I also find that when I'm trying to push a pile (either with gas or diesel) I loose traction much before I loose power.
> 
> But odds are I will end up with another diesel because of the allison issue, and they're just real cool lol.


At one point in your thread you're seing the light, but in the end you say what most diesel guys say... You're wasting your money on diesel, it's not worth it. If put into a savings account the difference would make you wealthy in 30 years.

Oh well, it's like saying forget about muhamad to a muslim... not going to happen.


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## MJLsLawnCareNmo (Nov 3, 2004)

Wow, thanks for all the replies everybody :waving: Keem 'em coming! Still don't know which one I'm leaning towards yet.


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## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

check out www.dieselplace.com


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

Well I have two different point of views on it cause I can clearly see the advantage of both gas or diesel. Last night I was hauling some weight with the truck, listening to the turbo whistle going down the highway and it was just a reminder of how cool the diesel really is. wesport


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

MJLsLawnCareNmo;441975 said:


> Regardless of truck manufacturer, which do you guys prefer for plowing either gas or diesel powered trucks? Why?


if your talking strickly a plow truck gas is the only way to go!!!! i not really biased here just stating the facts.... i have 5-6 diesel and 5-6 gas... the reason i think gas makes the best for our business 1.less cost 2. we only drive them about 500 miles per year, so the fuel savings really isn't a factor 3. do you really care if you employe can hear the turbo whistle while he beats your truck into curbs and snow piles?? 4. trust me you don't need a 450 HP pickup to push snow. a chevy with a 350 or a 6.0 will do the trick....


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

In the bigger trucks 3500 and up diesel is not an option. For fleet plow trucks go gas.

Personal truck go for the loaded diesel w/ leather guts, enjoy plowing with the heated seats. We deserve it. I love diesel trucks, hate the uncertainty of the big $$$ break down. I think its time to invest in the larger trucks.


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## IMoLwnz.com (Dec 10, 2004)

I have 3 Ford V10s
27K 2005
154K 2000
184K 1999

351's
155K 1996
64K 1993

6.9 Non turbo
not sure on miles 



Power is Great with the 3 valve 05 the other 2 could be better but the 05 Is great!! I wanted a Diesel but it DOES cost more and these trucks to the Job Very well. We haul large trailers and push quite a bit of snow. I like the Cost of the Gas trucks especially used you can Pick them up Cheep and I have had good luck with them. I Do want a Diesel for all the Fun of the diesel but the Gas truck just cost less to maintain and buy. If I start to make Bio.... Then we may have a differet story!!! I have a S-1600 International with a 6.9, I want to turbo that and try the Bio in it.


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## TEX (Nov 24, 2003)

good points all....

i think there is a lot of talk about 2 different things on this thread. yes diesels are king for power, towing and fun. 

for the guy just starting out and most plow trucks a gas truck will get the job done. will a diesel do it better maybe but at what cost. $$$ the guestion is do you NEED a diesel for the task at hand.

i LOVE diesel trucks again love diesel trucks i have had an 01 and now an 06 dodge cummins. if were are talking about wants and what is nice to have well diesel.

the truck that the diesel is in is likely to need many repairs before the engine ever wears out.


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

Personally, I'll never own another gas truck after having my Ram. Repairs don't really cost more than a gas in most cases, and if you treat the truck appropriately, break downs are not an issue. A track bar or tie rod replacement is the same cost in a 1 ton truck regardless of the engine. If you need injectors replaced under 200k miles you have a problem with your fuel supply. Incidentally, you'll notice certain diesels (specific engines), just like certain gassers are more prone to failure than others.
I get the same mileage as the same truck in gas (and if I had the higher gears I would get significantly better mileage all the time!), except when a pull or push, then I benefit. The difference in the cost of the fuel is negligible now, the repair costs are the same, the only real difference is the cost to buy. Removing the "I drive a diesel" factor some people feel is priceless (I have a friend like that) the cost difference is the savings in fuel during working periods adjusted over the length of time you own the truck. Do the math for yourself with that in mind. You're paying for a Medium duty engine in a light duty truck- medium duty everything costs a little more in every aspect, but in most cases it's minor.
If you're traction is lost pushing before you can recognize a benefit in the diesel torque you may want to investigate better tires for plowing- I plow REGULARLY in 2wd and no traction issues. Remember the single most important thing for either engine is Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance!


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

Thinking about the justification of diesel for plowing. We get about 200 hours a season per truck timed from steaming out of the yard to dragging our sorry tails back home. So. . . the total elapsed time for all sessions. For that work out we can justify the diesels in winter. For those that can not justify a diesel are you running fewer hours per season? Less snow, shorter sessions?


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## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

Don't forget about the added resale value of a diesel. Remember how the gas proponents state that they can be bought cheap? If that's your rig, you are selling it for less. It comes out in the wash in the end, and you have a better truck in the mean time.


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

sparky8370;449011 said:


> Don't forget about the added resale value of a diesel. Remember how the gas proponents state that they can be bought cheap? If that's your rig, you are selling it for less. It comes out in the wash in the end, and you have a better truck in the mean time.


I forgot about that part. We keep our trucks birth to death. When our's leave here its on a flat-deck


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## krafty1958 (Dec 7, 2007)

Diesel all the way. More torque,alot more weight on the front wheels=better traction.Alot longer engine life. Anything you hear about cold weather starting is history and isn't a problem with good fuel and filters.I plugged in my last diesel in 97, then just tried to see what happened without being plugged in, guess what ?my electric bill went down and I have never not had one start, even at -30


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## Duracutter (Oct 25, 2006)

sparky8370;449011 said:


> Don't forget about the added resale value of a diesel. Remember how the gas proponents state that they can be bought cheap? If that's your rig, you are selling it for less. It comes out in the wash in the end, and you have a better truck in the mean time.


A better truck? Our co. bought diesels in the past and it was noisier, dirtier, harder to start in very cold temps, and diesel is more than gas now!!!!!!!

What is so good about diesel versus let's say a Ford V10... nothing.

Diesel is never worth it. Not anymore.


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## Duracutter (Oct 25, 2006)

sparky8370;449011 said:


> Don't forget about the added resale value of a diesel. Remember how the gas proponents state that they can be bought cheap? If that's your rig, you are selling it for less. It comes out in the wash in the end, and you have a better truck in the mean time.


A better truck? Our co. bought diesels in the past and it was noisier, dirtier, harder to start in very cold temps, and diesel is more than gas now at the pumps!!!!!!!

What is so good about diesel versus let's say a Ford V10... nothing.

Diesel is never worth it. Not anymore.


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

Duracutter;450313 said:


> A better truck? Our co. bought diesels in the past and it was noisier, dirtier, harder to start in very cold temps, and diesel is more than gas now!!!!!!!
> 
> What is so good about diesel versus let's say a Ford V10... nothing.
> 
> Diesel is never worth it. Not anymore.


Go test drive the new diesels on a January day. then drop us a line about the results


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

Duracutter;450314 said:


> A better truck? Our co. bought diesels in the past and it was noisier, dirtier, harder to start in very cold temps, and diesel is more than gas now at the pumps!!!!!!!
> 
> What is so good about diesel versus let's say a Ford V10... nothing.
> 
> Diesel is never worth it. Not anymore.


 I get 21mpg at 6800lbs and almost 500hp at the wheels in my personal truck. My pickups don't see the day to day hard use that a landscaper or excavating contractor's trucks do, but they do tow up to (and some times over) their GCWR frequently. My '95 Powerstroke Ford has over 500k on the clock, it has long paid for itself but it's still chugging away just as reliable as ever. They will simply outplow, out tow, and outlast a gas motor pickup.

Now I buy used, but if i were to buy new it would definelty be a diesel. What happens to that V10 at trade in time? They won't give any kind of money for a gas motor 3/4 or 1 ton, and do you really want to hold on to a gasser thats pushing 200k miles?

Me personally, I am willing to pay a premium for the fuel milage, torque, and longevity of a diesel engine.


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## Duracutter (Oct 25, 2006)

OldSchoolPSD;450355 said:


> I get 21mpg at 6800lbs and almost 500hp at the wheels in my personal truck. My pickups don't see the day to day hard use that a landscaper or excavating contractor's trucks do, but they do tow up to (and some times over) their GCWR frequently. My '95 Powerstroke Ford has over 500k on the clock, it has long paid for itself but it's still chugging away just as reliable as ever. They will simply outplow, out tow, and outlast a gas motor pickup.
> 
> Now I buy used, but if i were to buy new it would definelty be a diesel. What happens to that V10 at trade in time? They won't give any kind of money for a gas motor 3/4 or 1 ton, and do you really want to hold on to a gasser thats pushing 200k miles?
> 
> Me personally, I am willing to pay a premium for the fuel milage, torque, and longevity of a diesel engine.


Ok, but diesel is at $1.15 and gas is at $.94 so basically that negates the better mileage. At trade in time we'll get less, but we paid less. For longevity, one of our guys sells wholesale vehicles, has been doing so for 10 years, for the most part the gas engines get just as much if not more miles before bagging. The odd diesel may get more but it's the exception not the rule. That conclusion came after thousands of comparisons. It's not unusual to see a ford truck with a gasser to have 300,000 miles or more.

Maybe the new diesel motors are easier to start, but they cost a high premium.

The thing is, it doesn't matter about any logic if a person is die hard diesel fan.
Even if you had to cut off your jewels, the guys would do it and smile as they start the diesel. In other words, in not about logic, it's about want...not need.

So I guys I'm pi##ing in the wind here...

Good luck


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

heather lawn spray;449016 said:


> I forgot about that part. We keep our trucks birth to death. When our's leave here its on a flat-deck


When your selling trucks by the pound, diesel's are better because they weigh more.


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

JD Dave;450486 said:


> When your selling trucks by the pound, diesel's are better because they weigh more.


Yupwesport


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Duracutter;450473 said:


> The thing is, it doesn't matter about any logic if a person is die hard diesel fan.
> Even if you had to cut off your jewels, the guys would do it and smile as they start the diesel. In other words, in not about logic, it's about want...not need.
> 
> So I guys I'm pi##ing in the wind here...
> ...


I agree ....
wants VS needs...
Why do you have to justify what you want?
You do not need truck X , truck Y will do the job.
but you want truck X.

so get it. we are not your wife you do not need to convince us
Just get what makes you happy:waving:

Also If you need it why do you need to justify it?


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## Duracutter (Oct 25, 2006)

SnoFarmer;450500 said:


> I agree ....
> wants VS needs...
> Why do you have to justify what you want?
> You do not need truck X , truck Y will do the job.
> ...


Don't worry, I don't want or need diesel. I couldn't care less if it was run by propane or hydrogen. What's cost efficient for the co. and leaves the most dollars as profits so all of us in the office can get the most biggest fattest salary. That's what it's all about here in our co., not what's fun, what the best for the bottom line.

Fun, I'll do that with the family...


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

Duracutter;450473 said:


> Ok, but diesel is at $1.15 and gas is at $.94 so basically that negates the better mileage. At trade in time we'll get less, but we paid less. For longevity, one of our guys sells wholesale vehicles, has been doing so for 10 years, for the most part the gas engines get just as much if not more miles before bagging. The odd diesel may get more but it's the exception not the rule. That conclusion came after thousands of comparisons. It's not unusual to see a ford truck with a gasser to have 300,000 miles or more.
> 
> Maybe the new diesel motors are easier to start, but they cost a high premium.
> 
> ...


Well like I said, it may not make sense for your fleet trucks. The only reason I even have pickups is to for hotshotting freight, and it takes more than a $.25/gal price difference to negate the fuel economy between a gas and a diesel, considering that one of my trucks loaded will do twice the fuel milage of a gasser. Multiply that by 80-100k miles a year, it adds up quick.

But thats just me, I know a lot of you guys are contractors and I'm probably one of the only guys here that gets paid per mile. For me a gas motor truck is not an option.


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## J&R Landscaping (Dec 25, 2005)

I have a 94 f250 with the 5.8 v8. I also have a 2006 f250 with the 6.0 psd. The 94 gasser gets approx 9-12 mpg. the 06 gets 17-21mpg. My 94 just turned 100k. The diesel has close to 57k on her. I put a lot of miles on a a vehicle in a year so with my new truck, thats why I went diesel. I plan on keeping that 06 for several years as well.


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## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

Well there's a reason that the diesels in this pole are ahead of the gas ones by 69 votes, or a 3.16/1 ratio. Those arguing for gas, which seem to be much more vocal, seem to feel the need to justify buying a diesel. Why? The gassers have conceded, for the most part, that the diesel is an overall better engine. I hear talk about wanting not needing and so on. OK does this mean you will go put a v6 in your truck because you don't need your v8. Come on. You're acting like it's a guilty pleasure when it's just nicer, not some big un-necessary waste. 
I'm sitting here wondering why there is so many more votes for diesel, but the voting for gas are so vocal? I'll keep my oil burner and get the job done with ease. When I'm towing a piece of equipment and I lay into the throttle I'll have a smile on my face, not a frown.


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## 92XT (Nov 30, 2007)

#2 Home Heating Oil ....................................$2.199 Gal.

*attention ....not For '08 And Newer*


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

#2 is not a good choice for winter.
A blend of #1 & #2 would be better and if it is really cold only #1.

Home heating carries a fine with it also, it's not worth it if you get caught.


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

92XT;453227 said:


> #2 Home Heating Oil ....................................$2.199 Gal.
> 
> *attention ....not For '08 And Newer*


Where are you getting #2 that cheap? I'm paying upwards of 2.50/gal for it. FWIW I run the Kool-Aid in everything but the big trucks.


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## veggin psd (Feb 8, 2007)

I responded diesel, but it should have been OTHER........WVO conversion!payup


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## tkrepairs (Nov 28, 2007)

diesel also = smaller plows because of the extra weight of the engine/transmission up front. 
and my 6.0 laughs at the heavy stuff. good set of tires and the right ballast, pretty much an m1a1 abrams plowing a lot.


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## yamaguy (Aug 26, 2007)

Plowing snow is not really a determining factor by itself. Both gas and diesel do a good job at it. Yea the diesels get better economy, but if the hardest thing you do with a truck is plow snow a gas truck will be a better choice. I have a diesel because I haul 10k to 20k lb trailers 2000 miles a week. I did not vote because there was not a choice for me.


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## NorthwestPlower1 (Feb 4, 2001)

Gas, I own a excavating co. and I can't see the point to the diesels anymore from a cost perspective. For the following reasons: diesel option $7k, diesel is $.60 higher a gallon atm in IL., Oils changes cost twice as much, I have 1999 F250 5.4 Triton with 296k miles without a rebuild and still plows every storm. My 2005 F550 6.0 PSD is the biggest POS motor I have ever had. I feel they are over engineering the new diesels and making them extremely complicated which means more sh** to go wrong. I decided to keep it simple and go back to gas. Otherwise the my new 08' F250 is loaded even got the nav.


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## TEX (Nov 24, 2003)

i hear you on that 6.0 ford PS many many probs with them. i jsut like the tried and true stright 6 cummins diesel. the oil changes cost more but you dont have to do them as offten. and if you use amsoil even longer 15K or 1yr for the plow trucks.

i think what ever works for you and your business is the best choice.


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## nickPSD (Oct 31, 2003)

I love diesels for plowing, and towing. I think a big gasser would be just as good though, but the diesel grunt is nice to have. I had a Ford with the 6.0 diesel, the only thing that ever gave me problems where the head gaskets. I had them replace under warrenty. Never game me another problem. Almost everyday in the summer it had a 16k lbs trailer behind it. I had a custom SCT, intake elbow, AFE intake, MBRP exhaust, and a full set of gauges. I used that truck hard, plowed snow with it, pulled alot of heavy trailers. All the mechanics that I talked to said the ones that they see break the most are the guys that drive them like cars. They are made to be worked and worked hard at that. wesport


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## MJLsLawnCareNmo (Nov 3, 2004)

Thanks everybody for all the reply/votes in my thread. Lots to take in at once. I've got a lot of thinking to do, but have a better idea now.


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## cbr9joe (Dec 12, 2006)

I have a 85 dodge 360 and just bought a 05 dodge diesel. I like the diesel much better fast, stronger, much better looking But fuel cost is an issue, has anyone thought of making their own diesel?


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## TEX (Nov 24, 2003)

or adding propane at a low psi for 2-3 mpg gain?

congrats on the new dodge diesel. shoot a PM if you have any ?'s


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## PTSolutions (Dec 8, 2007)

i dont understand where the argument that you can move more snowpiles with diesel because of more torque. Umm, i dont think torque is the limiting factor in that issue but rather traction, if your breaking traction then you got plenty of torque, that snowpile aint gonna move, and diesels and gassers most likely are gonna have similar tires.

i love diesels, our next truck will be one, its just insanse to check off that $7000 option for it. Diesel around here has been more expensive than gas for as long as i remember, usually around 40 cent more.


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## kah68 (Jan 16, 2006)

There is no right or wrong choice, most people buy diesel's based on emotion rather than dollars and 'sense'! I run 5 diesels, 2 were business descisions (100% towing heavy) 2 were bought because they were cheap $2000.00 and $4000.00 plow trucks. My truck was an emotional descision( because I wanted a new crew cab and the extra pulling power for my 5th wheel). Most people will never realize the benifit of the diesel option (longer lifecycle) but will most likely experiance the expensive repair costs associated with diesels. I really think the more power they put out along with tighter emmision regs to come will make the diesel option less appealing for some. A Gasser will do the job for most but to me there is no feeling like pushing a huge pile of snow with a little 160 horse cummins. I would have bought gasser plow trucks if these trucks didn't fall into my lap at great prices.

Kirk


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## yamaguy (Aug 26, 2007)

cbr9joe;464456 said:


> But fuel cost is an issue, has anyone thought of making their own diesel?


Yea my bro-in law and I looked in to it pretty heavily two years ago. The only thing was that either people were already collecting it, or the oil supplier only sold new oil as part of a package were they were the only ones to collect the used oil. So I called the oil supplier in hopes of buying some used oil, and they said they don't sell it because they cook it down for hog feed or somthing like that.


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## kah68 (Jan 16, 2006)

One thing I didn't mention, my GPH is extremely low, I would be interested to do a comparison, based on averages of GPH between gas, newer diesels and older (like mine) diesels.


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

kah68;465018 said:


> One thing I didn't mention, my GPH is extremely low, I would be interested to do a comparison, based on averages of GPH between gas, newer diesels and older (like mine) diesels.


6.5 96 chevy 1.3 US gal (5 litre) per hour
6.6 05,06 chevy 1.8 US gal (6 litre) per hour


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## MGardner (Nov 27, 2001)

I like feathering the throttle on my 91 Dodge/Cumalong when pushing a heavy pile on industrial lots. It always has much more where that came from. Run a straight 4" stack and sounds no different than a big Farmal tractor or a semi under a work load. The weird thing is, I never tire of the sound. Never interested in gas ,albeit a truck or a skid steer,backhoe. All diesel here. So simple to work on if needed. One thing hasn`t been mentioned , NO ignition to short or stupid wires when snow and moisture fills engine compartment,not to mention a bizilion relays and sensors to go out . Keep filters changed add, Howes, run a half tank at most in sub zero weather all night . $50.00 fuel---$1500.00 work.$1500 divide by 11hrs work = $136.00 an hour. This truck doesn`t owe us a nickle.


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## the_experience (Feb 28, 2007)

The no sensors and electronics thing makes sense if you're talking about an old mechanical diesel, but have you looked under the hood of a modern diesel? 

It really comes down to a personal preference. I do have to say that modern diesels seem to be getting less and less trouble free while modern gassers are getting more and more trouble free, but that's growing pains I think. For as rock solid as fuel injection on a gasser is today there sure were a lot of growing pains. Now the worst most people get is a P0442 code...small evaporative emissions leak. Yep...they left the gas cap off. I think diesels will be just as reliable again in 5-10 years. For now there ARE some pains in the industry whether diesel owners want to recognize it or not. Nevertheless...they are still great workhorses.


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## snatchal (Sep 8, 2005)

Real trucks don't have sparkplugs.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Early on I wasn't to anal re maintenance, lost alot of gas engines. Most of my stuff is diesel, have only lost one a 6.5 Turbo, switched to PSD in 95. Have not had any Ford diesels blow up. Trannys different story. Due to minimal maintenance  I lost a Dozen ford trannys. '99 and up all on original trannys except Dodge ,did it last month.
Everything except my 06 sleep in the shop w/thermo at 55 degrees. If you do all your preventative maintenance yr truck will last forever. When my trucks are dead I keep them for parts- priceless.


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## Roland (Nov 29, 2007)

I've been watching this thread closely, as I'm about to start a business of plowing and firewood delivery.

What I'm really looking at is 'bottom line'. I'm going to get a 3/4 ton truck. I'm sure both a gas and a diesel will plow and haul what I need to plow and haul, but which one makes better business sense?


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## yamaguy (Aug 26, 2007)

If your buying used I would say get the one that has the other options you need/want that you can get the best deal on. I guess that would go for new as well.


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## Jef Bearden (Dec 23, 2007)

I cannot speak for flatlanders but in the super rugged San Juan Mountains in western Colorado where i plow a Gas engine seems far better. Many of my driveways are at 30 degree angle with switch-backs I wouldn't dare attempt some of them with such a heavy front end as you would in a diesle. For flatlanders i could see where the added weight would be a benefit for scraping lots and drives. In these mountains everyone has gravel and dirt and its best to leave a an inch or two so as not to rip apart their roads. 
What will you be using it for? Fast & quick maneuvers, I'd say Gas.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Hey Roland
What u need to do is get a good deal on a used 1 ton 4x4 gas/diesel not important. ! ton gives u lots of options for the future. 3yr old lease returns have great deals can come w/plow and salter for $22K. Much cheaper but much older deals are everywhere. Once yr business is established and making boatloads of payup you can start updating yr fleet w/newer and hopefully more reliable trucks. My first work truck was a 10 yr old F250 gas std 2 wheel dr truck. Paid $1750 for it in 1985 . Worked it for 8 yrs let it sit for another 2 was real sad to see it towed to the crusher.
Buy the best you can afford now and work up to the next bigger and better. Within 2 months of buying my '06 new I wished I had waited for the '08. Oh well next time


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## jaystripes (Jan 5, 2008)

get the diesel the one time expense and maintiance is higher but if your going to keep it you can hop up the power and get beter fuel ecomomy all at the same time and get 22 mpg 

we have a 05 duramax and it goes through like a 1/4- 1/2 tank a storm and and i go through 2 tanks in the gas give or take and the disel is just more versatile


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## Roland (Nov 29, 2007)

Fuel is definately one thing to look at as I consider the bottom line. I can forsee plowing/hauling with the truck @400 hours a year. Diesel seems to get twice the mileage. Not really sure how to figure an hourly fuel usage though.


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## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

looks like diesel has dipped below 76%


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## TEX (Nov 24, 2003)

nope back up to 76.06%

a diesel uses 1/3 the fuel at idle vs a gas


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## nepmgmt (Dec 6, 2005)

like many people have said needs and wonts are very dif. i wont a diesel do i need one no would a gas do just fine and save me money yes but i don't mind paying the extra for a diesel. i have a gas now and it is great. i always have the power that i need but i wont a diesel. this is for my personal truck so that plays a role in it. if i was to get a plow truck for my CO. as Long as it wasn't a duely i would go gas.i have worked hard and wont a diesel i just wont hence the need and wont.


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## TEX (Nov 24, 2003)

i hope yo get what you want.

as said before need vs want vs cool factor................

if you keep the trucks until they fall apart diesel. if you trade every 8-10 yrs gas. 

the true answer is what ever works for you (personal or business) and your budget and needs of that truck.


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## ford6.9 (Aug 17, 2006)

I have to say i have a ford 6.0 and Love It. the only reason i have it is because i got a great price on it. doesn't hurt being that i haul two 10k plus trailers everyday. but i really think the v10s are doing pretty well these days, (anything but dodge-eat you till theres nothing left with fuel). so get a truck that will work for you # wise cause thats where it really matters. Once again unless your hauling 8k or so everyday you should be just fine with anything on the market these days. gas or diesel.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

your poll ask which is best for plowing, i'm assuming you talking about commercial plowing and you be buying several trucks. i would not even worry about the what motor it has i would just worry about getting good trucks at afforable prices. and also trucks that you don't mind getting beat up a bit. our trucks only get about 500 miles on them per year so fuel cost really isn't an issue. FOOD FOR THOUGHT....our gas truck make just as much $ as our diesel trucks. O and when your plow truck is setting around for 9 months waiting for snow who cares if it's gas or diesel.


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## lawfires (Jan 14, 2008)

If we're talking about setting up a truck for an employee to run, then I'd have to think about it. If we're talking about a truck that I'm going to snow plow with, then the answer is most certainly a diesel. I'd suggest that anyone advocating for gasoline engines hasn't plowed with comparable diesels. The sole advantages that gasoline engines have are: 1) no problems with fuel gelling in cold weather (easily solved with a bit of additive in diesel engines); and, 2) the reduced power can be easier on the drivetrain when the truck is operated by hired help. That second 'advantage' causes greater fuel consumption and makes a lot of drivers go faster to get into the powerband.

For my own personal use, I'd not go with anything other than a diesel. In larger trucks, there obviously is no comparison (the largest gas powered trucks I've plowed with were C65 Chevies with 366 v-8s, and a F-650 with a 429 gas engine), but the apples to apples comparison comes easier with pickups. The following are all trucks I've plowed extensively with. All were comparably equipped (8' or 8.5' straight blade, 3/4 or 1 ton, single rear tire, 4x4, operated without salt or ballast, limited slip rear differentials, same or similar tires), with one exception: some were regular cab and some were extended, crew or quad cab (with an accompanying difference in length and weight). My order of preference for the trucks, from least favorite to most favorite, was:

10. 1995 Chevy with 5.7L V-8 (See #9).
9. 1997 Chevy with 5.7L V-8 (a great improvement over the earlier 350s, but the truck was a disappointment and for whatever reason, had significantly less traction than the other trucks listed.)
8. 2003 Chevy with 6.0L V-8 (I was greatly disappointed by the off-idle response)
7. 2001 Ford with 5.4L V-8 (inadequate power for heavy snows)
6. 1995 Dodge with V-10 (very impressive power, but sucked gas like crazy.)
5. 1998 Ford with V-10 (surprisingly good fuel economy for plowing, respectable power. Not very peppy at idle, though).
4. 1999 Ford with 7.3L diesel, 5speed (for plowing streets or long stretches, I'd take the manual over the automatics, but otherwise, I'd take the trucks below).
3. 2001 Ford with 7.3L diesel, automatic (a great truck, but not as impressive as #1 or #2).
2. 2005 Ford with 6.0L diesel, automatic (a great truck, and a close second, but just not as impressive as #1, below).
1. 2007 Dodge Ram, 5.9L Cummins Diesel, Automatic (Never driven any plow truck that has this much power off idle. I have yet to find a snow that can challenge it...I've plowed straight through wind-driven 40" snow drifts without any problem. It's truly an amazing truck).

I haven't driven a duramax with a plow, but understand that they are very impressive as well. I have driven a new 6.4L Ford, but it wasn't a pickup, so it's not directly comparable...but with 4.88 axle gearing, it seemed like a beast.


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