# New to snow removal, first year in business any advice appreciated



## Kyleleelatta08 (Sep 27, 2017)

Looking for any advice as this will be my first year in business


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Advice? What kind of snow removal equipment do you have? Do you mow lawns in the Summer so you already have a customer base? Do you have a GL policy? Do you have any experience in snow removal? Will you be available 24/7 when it's snowing, or do you have a regular 9-5 job?


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Live on here for a while. Read as much as you can. You can use the search for just about anything.

Know your numbers

You're pretty vague. Tell us about yourself first. Where your from, past business experience, equipment, etc. I assume you're planning on doing residential, based on your poll question thing. Are you planning on doing commercial also? Are you going to be a subcontractor? Have you ever plowed? We need info on what you need help with before we can help.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Don't do work just to do work. Make money doing work or let the next clown have it. 

If you want to get in a race to the bottom stop before you start... as that is exactly what it will be.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> Don't do work just to do work. Make money doing work or let the next clown have it.
> 
> If you want to get in a race to the bottom stop before you start... as that is exactly what it will be.


When I first stopped signing my own contracts and went to sub for a company. That's the expression the owner used with me. "Jeff snow removal is all just a race to the bottom". And for the most part, he was right. There are some exceptions, but not many.


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## Kyleleelatta08 (Sep 27, 2017)

I appreciate your input. I am from Michigan. I work construction during the summer. I have been a ride along for the past two years in a plow truck. He's been teaching me quite a bit. Im no stranger to running heavy equipment tho.( Tractors, ATV with plow, sky trecs ECT.) My hope is to create a revenue stream in the winter because anyone who does roofing knows it's slow in the winter. I have a truck with a plow, an ATV with a plow, and shovels and 1 blower. That is it so far. I set up my dba now I just have to get a GL contract which I'll have in a week or so


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Ditch the DBA, get an LLC. Keep everything separate. That way you're not personally help liable, just you business.

Look into workers comp while you're getting GL. Try and see if any of your roofing guys want to work for you. Make sure they know it's not B.S. and they need to show, no matter what time. If you don't trust them or don't feel you can count on them, don't hire them.

Since you don't already have existing customers, I would recommend finding an established contractor and subbing for him. Some will disagree, but it's what I do. Less headaches I feel, and they can put all your equipment to use.

Make sure you know what you need to make during a storm or winter to show a profit, and make sure you make that or more from either the contractor or your customers.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JMHConstruction said:


> Ditch the DBA, get an LLC. Keep everything separate. That way you're not personally help liable, just you business.
> 
> Look into workers comp while you're getting GL. Try and see if any of your roofing guys want to work for you. Make sure they know it's not B.S. and they need to show, no matter what time. If you don't trust them or don't feel you can count on them, don't hire them.
> 
> ...


Subbing is a good to get an education, when I started I had a couple of my own customers but was also a sub. I was paid buy the job not by the hour. The guy I subbed for was still making 25-30% and I was making money too, just not as mulch.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Good information in the above couple of posts. I would sub for awhile as well, and if you can pick up your own customers as you go, great. If at all possible, do as Buff said, get paid by the job and not by the hour. Sub for a year or two, hang out on here and learn, and then if you feel like it go out on your own.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I third the by the job, but I hustle. I could never work hourly again....


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

I'm not going to tell you how much more I earn working by the job and not per hour, you'd think I was lying.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

By the hour keeps the doors open...

By the job makes the money...

If you have a simple mix of both, the doors stay open, and you make money.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Kyleleelatta08 said:


> Looking for any advice as this will be my first year in business


Welcome to the site. Where in mi are you at?


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## Kyleleelatta08 (Sep 27, 2017)

Freshwater said:


> Welcome to the site. Where in mi are you at?


Dundee, mi


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Kyleleelatta08 said:


> Dundee, mi


Nice, I go to cabellas and the water park from time to time. Throw some ads on Craigslist, and flyer away. Take everything offered at first, even small commercial. Good luck.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Freshwater said:


> Take everything offered at first, even small commercial. Good luck.


That is the worst advise I have ever heard...


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Agreed.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Still trying to figure oot what the question is or advice he wants.


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## Kyleleelatta08 (Sep 27, 2017)

Freshwater said:


> Nice, I go to cabellas and the water park from time to time. Throw some ads on Craigslist, and flyer away. Take everything offered at first, even small commercial. Good luck.


Thank you I appreciate the insight.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Still trying to figure oot what the question is or advice he wants.


Try paying attention.....


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> That is the worst advise I have ever heard...


Let me be clearer. When I first started I wanted to have a tight route with certain types of accounts in a certain area. I made flyers and canvassed that area. The response was underwhelming. I put an ad on Craigslist, and the response was better. The problem was the accounts were not always what I was looking for and much farther apart than I had wanted. I made the decision to bid them all and got a lot of them. The moral is if I had turned down bidding those and plowing them the first couple years I wouldn't be here.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Freshwater said:


> Let me be clearer. When I first started I wanted to have a tight route with certain types of accounts in a certain area. I made flyers and canvassed that area. The response was underwhelming. I put an ad on Craigslist, and the response was better. The problem was the accounts were not always what I was looking for and much farther apart than I had wanted. I made the decision to bid them all and got a lot of them. The moral is if I had turned down bidding those and plowing them the first couple years I wouldn't be here.


that is much better advise than take anything that gets thrown at you.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Fair enough my friend... the op town is a pretty populated town in the middle of nowhere. He'll need to take some outside of the box stuff to get his foot in the door.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Granted im not plowing 70 acres of asphalt in Gaylord Michigan...Which by the way gets 150" of snow a year....


Your best bet this year is Sub for a larger contractor...Also venture out and get a few accounts of your own...Get your feet wet on your own and build up some knowledge...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Freshwater said:


> Fair enough my friend... the op town is a pretty populated town in the middle of nowhere. He'll need to take some outside of the box stuff to get his foot in the door.


Your correct....But Ypsi and Ann Arbor are not far up the road...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

If you already have equipment and it doesn't HAVE to make you money in the winter, sub for another company. 

Your life will be much easier, simpler, and less stressful until you learn the ropes and can start bidding your own work.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> If you already have equipment and it doesn't HAVE to make you money in the winter, sub for another company.
> 
> Your life will be much easier, simpler, and less stressful until you learn the ropes and can start bidding your own work.


Your equipment can make money subbing for someone....I don't understand that comment...

Example....Im subbing a Lowe's in Gaylord Michigan which by the way gets 150" of snow from Brickviewbrightcrest....Are saying I don't make any money??


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Defcon 5 said:


> Your equipment can make money subbing for someone....I don't understand that comment...
> 
> Example....Im subbing a Lowe's in Gaylord Michigan which by the way gets 150" of snow from Brickviewbrightcrest....Are saying I don't make any money??


Meaning if you sub for someone and are only a per push or hourly sub and it doesn't snow, you don't make any money. If that is the case (and it sounds like it is here) than I'm saying he should get his feet wet with someone else by being a subcontractor for a few (2-4) seasons depending on the severity of those seasons.

I'm not saying he should sub a lowes from Brightview or anything like that, I'm saying he should be a sub that gets a phone call, shows up, performs the work, and goes home. Easiest way to learn production rates, how to be efficient, what decisions to make and when, etc all without your own contracts and ass being on the line for making the wrong one, because someone else is telling you what to do.

Again, just my opinion.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Meaning if you sub for someone and are only a per push or hourly sub and it doesn't snow, you don't make any money. If that is the case (and it sounds like it is here) than I'm saying he should get his feet wet with someone else by being a subcontractor for a few (2-4) seasons depending on the severity of
> 
> those seasons.
> 
> ...


I know what you were saying scooter...Just being sarcastic...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Defcon 5 said:


> I know what you were saying scooter...Just being sarcastic...


Oops, sorry. Didn't catch the sarcasm on the first part.

Defiantly caught it on the second part.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Ya Scooter.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Defcon 5 said:


> Your equipment can make money subbing for someone....I don't understand that comment...
> 
> Example....Im subbing a Lowe's in Gaylord Michigan which by the way gets 150" of snow from Brickviewbrightcrest....Are saying I don't make any money??


Rough crowd here today. OP, sub for someone the first year. Make your mistakes and get your learning curve on someone else's dime. Then the year after you can attack the Lowe's parking lot.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

Take the advice from everyone on here willing to give it. This is not a get rich quick business. Try to learn as much as possible. Don't screw over other people in the business. Will you have insurance, what type of properties will you bid on, where will you get your business? Learn a little about your market before you go drop bids. There are some smaller guys out by me who low ball so bad to get a bunch of accounts and then they make no money, work there ass off, and ruin the market. I was fortunate to find someone bigger and better than me that I am trying to learn from. He is local in my area and helps me a lot. Look for someone to guide you, someone you can learn from.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

Okay I see you are getting insurance. I agree with what JMH said, get the LLC. I got a DBA first, but later got an LLC. I still kept my DBA. So I am a LLC but also use my doing business as name I started with.


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## Kyleleelatta08 (Sep 27, 2017)

Does anyone have any contacts in my area they could maybe put me in touch with? I like the idea of subbing out by the job. Trying to stay away from hourly because I am trying to get my own accounts. Also great advice from everyone on here, I'm learning a lot this site is great.


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## Klaibs27 (Oct 21, 2018)

Kyle, I searched in the "sm bz ads" forum in the "Services" section on my local Craigslist site. I just signed up to snow blow for $30/hour which I'll use to build up a "buy a plow truck" fund.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Philbilly2 said:


> Don't do work just to do work. Make money doing work or let the next clown have it.
> 
> If you want to get in a race to the bottom stop before you start... as that is exactly what it will be.


Some of the most solid advice around.


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