# Online Advertising Ideas?



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

What online advertising seems to have the best results. Best bang for the buck, obviously, but I'm not as concerned with cost as I am with results.

I have always had luck with door hangers, but (for those who don't know) I've had a bit of an employee problem this year. I haven't really had the man power to send a guy out for a few days and hit neighborhoods. I've thought about hiring someone to hang them, but I've always been afraid of them just tossing them in the garbage and saying they did it.

This is the first year I've really started the whole online thing. Got a website, mobile site, and a Facebook (although I could probably try to update the Facebook a bit more).

Is it worth hiring an advertising company? I'm assuming the ROI wouldn't be there for a small deck building company. Any ideas are helpful.

Thanks guys


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I had post card mailers made by a local print shop. I was really happy with how they turned out. Because they are double sided it's summer maintenance on one side and winter snow on the other. They also make good cork board hangers in gas stations, and hardware stores,restaurants. the first mailing and printing was less than $1500 ( it's a small couple of towns) the first job more than paid for the whole production. What's squirrley about it is I don't advertise anymore . Sometimes I feel like there are more profitable jobs than others that I should be promoting heavy, but I am always busy so I have to refrain from following through on my marketing ideas.
The thing I notice the most about online are the reviews, people seem to get a little negative and people reading the reviews don't trust the good ones. I don't do anything online in terms of advertising


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JMHConstruction said:


> What online advertising seems to have the best results. Best bang for the buck, obviously, but I'm not as concerned with cost as I am with results.
> 
> I have always had luck with door hangers, but (for those who don't know) I've had a bit of an employee problem this year. I haven't really had the man power to send a guy out for a few days and hit neighborhoods. I've thought about hiring someone to hang them, but I've always been afraid of them just tossing them in the garbage and saying they did it.
> 
> ...


Marketing firms typically will do as much or little as you want which the cost being reflective of the services.
Have you looked into bulk mailers for targeted areas.
I assume you have a sign you put in the yards of the jobs you're working on or have done. 
Have you thought about giving coffee gift cards to customer that give a referral that end up being jobs.


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## the Suburbanite (Jan 27, 2018)

If I was providing the services you do I would consider direct mailing all new homeowners as identified through local property transfer records. For example, our local paper lists property transfers (buyer/seller/address/amount) weekly.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I have thought about post cards, but am worried with all the apartments in the area I'd be throwing money into the wind. I need to look into it a little more and see how things can be divided and what the costs are. Our most profitable of the surrounding cities has almost 200k residents, but I'm not sure how many households. I'd have to look that up. I assume I could divide by zip code or something.

We do have yard signs, and I'll probably get the truck and trailer lettered this winter. I also give a $150 Visa gift card for referrals if they sign. That has worked pretty good for us.

Direct mailers to knew home buyer might be worth looking into, but seems time consuming. Maybe not. Assuming I can find a list for my area, it may not be bad.

I appreciate the suggestions so far. Thanks


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Even if you hit appartments, don't look at it as a waste. People in appartments know people with houses. Do you worry about all the people worldwide on the web that view your webpage that would never hire you? That's illogical... You obviously have a work area, you should saturate it with your brand.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

JMHConstruction said:


> I have thought about post cards, but am worried with all the apartments in the area I'd be throwing money into the wind. I need to look into it a little more and see how things can be divided and what the costs are. Our most profitable of the surrounding cities has almost 200k residents, but I'm not sure how many households. I'd have to look that up. I assume I could divide by zip code or something.
> 
> We do have yard signs, and I'll probably get the truck and trailer lettered this winter. I also give a $150 Visa gift card for referrals if they sign. That has worked pretty good for us.
> 
> ...


We lettered our trailer this year, worked well, added about 20-25 lawns (adding lawns for next year too)
Finding good help (or help at all) blows.
Good economy = low unemployment = lower potential for people that want manual labor jobs. One thing that helps is paying more per hour. I also give employees gifts (like yeti water bottles,gift cards, the gift of silence, etc..) and bonuses (which the IRS has to see, because they blow too)
I've never done mailers or door hangers because I know that when I see them in my mail, it gets thrown away.
I did Facebook this year and it's worked alright, it's how I've found new employees this year because you can post job ads and people can send resumès. Although if I didn't have my company page, I'd delete my Facebook (can't stand it)
We have a website which we've had for a few years, we're in the process of redoing it.
We send Christmas cards (around you guessed it, Christmas) haven't really picked up new work for this, JT people sometimes send gifts or money back. (In your case, I'd ask for diapers or baby clothes)


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

We've dropped all our advertising except Google Ads. You can set any advertising monthly budget you are comfortable with, you get lots of data and feedback on how well it works, and you can target whatever geographic area and/or keywords you want.
Because its targeted and you do decks, I think that would be a much better use of money because with things like postcards and door hangers, 99% of your money is going to be wasted on people that don't need a deck. Whereas, someone that DOES, is very likely to search "deck builders" on Google as their first step

We have done Facebook as well. It's also very reasonable in price, but seems to generate a lot fewer hits

Edit: we have not used a third party company for it, so I cant vouch for the value of one. For things like Google Ads, I suspect it would be a waste of extra money but I'm sure the argument could be made that a professional company could tweak the advertising for effectiveness to bring in more business


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Lettering your truck/trailer is probably the best ROI you can do, bar none. Everyone in your area will see you around and you only have to pay for it once.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

What is a good "budget" for Google?

I need to look into this more. I had started to in the past, but never got too far. It's per click, correct?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> Lettering your truck/trailer is probably the best ROI you can do, bar none. Everyone in your area will see you around and you only have to pay for it once.


I'll give you one guess how many calls we've had from our "lettered" vehicles/trailers....


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JMHConstruction said:


> What is a good "budget" for Google?
> 
> I need to look into this more. I had started to in the past, but never got too far. It's per click, correct?


I cant really say what a "good" amount is. Once you set up an account and choose your keywords, Google will tell you what your competitors are spending and what you can expect for hits based on the budget you choose. We spend $500 per month but we are competing with other dealerships with deeper pockets than you are likely to compete with, so you'd probably need far, far less


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> I cant really say what a "good" amount is. Once you set up an account and choose your keywords, Google will tell you what your competitors are spending and what you can expect for hits based on the budget you choose. We spend $500 per month but we are competing with other dealerships with deeper pockets than you are likely to compete with, so you'd probably need far, far less


Oh, I was expecting quite a bit more. I'll have to check that out.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I'll give you one guess how many calls we've had from our "lettered" vehicles/trailers....


I see it as more of a professional thing. We are subbing less and less, and since we were booked out pretty far most didn't or couldn't wait for us. Now that I've had to spend all day on site, my sales have suffered. I figure every little advantage can help right now.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

JMHConstruction said:


> I see it as more of a professional thing. We are subbing less and less, and since we were booked out pretty far most didn't or couldn't wait for us. Now that I've had to spend all day on site, my sales have suffered. I figure every little advantage can help right now.


No without a doubt its about looking more professional. I just have 4-5 trucks running around daily and have never had one call saying I seen your driving down the road and decided to call... It's more referral it seems like to me then anything... So and so tells their neighbor or a friend of a friend owns a business and needs a quote for his lot. You with more reidential work I think Google would help as people are searching for a "deck builder" in the residential market.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> Google will tell you what your competitors are spending.


For some reason I see this as BS, hey dealer A is spending $1000/month and dealer B is spending $1500/month so you better up your skin in the game and spend a little more...


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Ajlawn1 said:


> No without a doubt its about looking more professional. I just have 4-5 trucks running around daily and have never had one call saying I seen your driving down the road and decided to call... It's more referral it seems like to me then anything... So and so tells their neighbor or a friend of a friend owns a business and needs a quote for his lot. You with more reidential work I think Google would help as people are searching for a "deck builder" in the residential market.


Most of our sales are word of mouth, and before I changed names (got out of remodels and focused just on decks), that was our only way of business. Decks have a nice margin, so I switched it all. We still get calls from old customers asking for JMH, but not quite as much. I'm sure short term the name/business change hurt, but I hope long term it's better.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> For some reason I see this as BS, hey dealer A is spending $1000/month and dealer B is spending $1500/month so you better up your skin in the game and spend a little more...


I probably explained it badly. Based on your budget, it dictates how high up in the listings you show compared to your competition, how often your ad shows, and how quickly you exhaust your budget. all of those are adjustable or you can let Google manage it automatically for best averages.

They show you with a cute little slider how the change in budget will affect how often everything shows up


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## prezek (Dec 16, 2010)

Landscaping here...trucks lettered would be #1. Professional look to the operation. Like AJ mentioned, not a ton of calls, however people do snap pictures of our contact info on the trucks and trailers because they don’t want to bother us and will call or email...I have gravitated towards Facebook this season. You can run a campaign for a certain period of time for whatever budget you want to spend. Target your age or gender that you want to advertise to. Set the exact geographic area you want to target...google adwords never worked real well for us. EDDM did ok but was expensive..


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I have budgeted about a $1,500-2k/mo for advertising, but don't want to spend it all on one thing.

With door hangers for example, I usually try to get out about 1,000 per month, maybe more. They're cheap. Last batch I ordered 5,000 I think, and paid something like $0.07 a hanger. If I pull a laborer off to hang fliers for a few days he can usually get 1,000 out in less than a week. I spend something like $320something per job. Some months we don't get any from hangers, others I get multiple jobs. We average about .3% return on jobs (leads are around 2-4%). For the cost, those numbers work for me, but we also can pick and choose neighborhoods. Now that the man power isn't there, it's harder to get many out.

I figure it's time to open the wallet, and try some other ways that let other people do the work.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JMHConstruction said:


> I have budgeted about a $1,500-2k/mo for advertising.


wow! now I feel cheap cuz I didn't want to up my budget to $800 like Google suggested


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

JMHConstruction said:


> I have budgeted about a $1,500-2k/mo for advertising, but don't want to spend it all on one thing.
> 
> With door hangers for example, I usually try to get out about 1,000 per month, maybe more. They're cheap. Last batch I ordered 5,000 I think, and paid something like $0.07 a hanger. If I pull a laborer off to hang fliers for a few days he can usually get 1,000 out in less than a week. I spend something like $320something per job. Some months we don't get any from hangers, others I get multiple jobs. We average about .3% return on jobs (leads are around 2-4%). For the cost, those numbers work for me, but we also can pick and choose neighborhoods. Now that the man power isn't there, it's harder to get many out.
> 
> I figure it's time to open the wallet, and try some other ways that let other people do the work.


Holy shnikey's... Yeah that's alot of money I'd be figuring out how to funnel some of that into your 18 Duramax fund... Do you need to be doing something other then decks? I don't know just asking... I mean the grass always grows etc... But I assume decks are hit and miss? Maybe add another service? Get into hardscapes? Ponds? Lake pier install and removal...? I mean with that kind of money thrown at advertising maybe local TV? Talk to Comcast etc...


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Holy shnikey's... Yeah that's alot of money I'd be figuring out how to funnel some of that into your 18 Duramax fund... Do you need to be doing something other then decks? I don't know just asking... I mean the grass always grows etc... But I assume decks are hit and miss? Maybe add another service? Get into hardscapes? Ponds? Lake pier install and removal...? I mean with that kind of money thrown at advertising maybe local TV? Talk to Comcast etc...


Like AJ mentioned, the grass grows.
Weekly maintenance services can keep a company afloat during slow times.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Holy shnikey's... Yeah that's alot of money I'd be figuring out how to funnel some of that into your 18 Duramax fund... Do you need to be doing something other then decks? I don't know just asking... I mean the grass always grows etc... But I assume decks are hit and miss? Maybe add another service? Get into hardscapes? Ponds? Lake pier install and removal...? I mean with that kind of money thrown at advertising maybe local TV? Talk to Comcast etc...


He has ALOT of skin in the game!!!....


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Defcon 5 said:


> He has ALOT of skin in the game!!!....


No, not really...:laugh:



Ajlawn1 said:


> Holy shnikey's... Yeah that's alot of money I'd be figuring out how to funnel some of that into your 18 Duramax fund... Do you need to be doing something other then decks? I don't know just asking... I mean the grass always grows etc... But I assume decks are hit and miss? Maybe add another service? Get into hardscapes? Ponds? Lake pier install and removal...? I mean with that kind of money thrown at advertising maybe local TV? Talk to Comcast etc...


Money comes and goes very fast with decks. That budget only works if it makes money. A new truck doesn't make me any more money than an old truck, which is why I'm more just looking now.

Decks are hit and miss, but profits and markups are good. It seems like it's easier to sell when all we do is decks. The people I target want quality, and that's what I sell. They aren't ALL like that, but that's what I've been trying to shoot for since the name change. If I spend $X on advertising, as long as it gets work I don't mind spending it.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Ajlawn1 said:


> No without a doubt its about looking more professional. I just have 4-5 trucks running around daily and have never had one call saying I seen your driving down the road and decided to call... It's more referral it seems like to me then anything... So and so tells their neighbor or a friend of a friend owns a business and needs a quote for his lot. You with more reidential work I think Google would help as people are searching for a "deck builder" in the residential market.


I get 5-10 calls a month from people who see my truck. It probably helps that for the most part I stripe large lawns and people see the difference in other lawns.
It doesn't happen overnight either, I remember when I started wishin that phone would ring, now I wish it would stop.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

If I can spend less, I'll definitely do that. I just wanted to make sure the budget was enough to do something with. Because most of my jobs average around $20k, I can spend a little more on trying to get them.

The hardest part right now is getting them done in a timely manner, and getting to the next one.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

JMHConstruction said:


> If I can spend less, I'll definitely do that. I just wanted to make sure the budget was enough to do something with. Because most of my jobs average around $20k, I can spend a little more on trying to get them.
> 
> The hardest part right now is getting them done in a timely manner, and getting to the next one.


Hey Matt, make sure that if you're getting your trailer lettered in the winter, that it's done inside and it's inside for long enough for the metal to get warm.
If it's done in the cold, the letters will expand in the sun and you'll have bubbling


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> wow! now I feel cheap cuz I didn't want to up my budget to $800 like Google suggested


My GoFundMe, now this... See a pattern...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Here's a question for the masses. What percentage of your gross and/or net do you budget for advertising?


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## the Suburbanite (Jan 27, 2018)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Here's a question for the masses. What percentage of your gross and/or net do you budget for advertising?


Zero.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> My GoFundMe, now this... See a pattern...


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Here's a question for the masses. What percentage of your gross and/or net do you budget for advertising?


Less than 1% of our gross is spent on "advertising"


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## 98Chevy2500 (Nov 27, 2005)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Here's a question for the masses. What percentage of your gross and/or net do you budget for advertising?


$0.00


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

plow4beer said:


> Less than 1% of our gross is spent on "advertising"


How much of the gross is spent on Beer??


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Defcon 5 said:


> How much of the gross is spent on Beer??


The other 99.XX%


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Here's a question for the masses. What percentage of your gross and/or net do you budget for advertising?


I only run one paid add, around $500.00 a year.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Defcon 5 said:


> How much of the gross is spent on Beer??


It varies....I went to Oktoberfest last night, so the numbers are definitely skewed this quarter


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Randall Ave said:


> I only run one paid add, around $500.00 a year.


That's all Eros.com is charging these days? :laugh:


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Hey Matt, make sure that if you're getting your trailer lettered in the winter, that it's done inside and it's inside for long enough for the metal to get warm.
> If it's done in the cold, the letters will expand in the sun and you'll have bubbling


Very good point that I never thought of. I have 2 jobs in October for a sub that doesn't allow lettered trucks on his site. I may have to try and get it right after those. Hopefully it will still be warm enough.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Here's a question for the masses. What percentage of your gross and/or net do you budget for advertising?


What percentage would you consider excessive?

Right now we spend about 1.5ish%.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BossPlow2010 said:


> That's all Eros.com is charging these days? :laugh:


You need to spend a little less time on the Interweb...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JMHConstruction said:


> What percentage would you consider excessive?
> 
> Right now we spend about 1.5ish%.


That's a good question. I don't do any advertising as far as print/commercials/billboards etc, but I've got a salesman that works 35-40 hours a week. We're right around the same percentage, using his salary/benefits, labor burden, etc.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I'll give you one guess how many calls we've had from our "lettered" vehicles/trailers....


IT's building a brand, not necessarily a call generating thing.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> IT's building a brand, not necessarily a call generating thing.


The Jorts must be cutting the circulation to his brain off


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> No without a doubt its about looking more professional.





Mark Oomkes said:


> IT's building a brand, not necessarily a call generating thing.


I know I said that....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Here's a question for the masses. What percentage of your gross and/or net do you budget for advertising?


The better question is what CAN you line item as advertising and promotion that you have in a different column?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> The better question is what CAN you line item as advertising and promotion that you have in a different column?


Sled pull truck and supporting equipment??


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Sled pull truck and supporting equipment??


Letter it up like a billboard... it is a write off...


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Talked to a lady at the graphics place, where I get my yard signs made, about lettering my truck. It's actually MUCH cheaper than I thought. I walked in expecting to spend around $2,000... She said probably around $300.

We also discussed my whole subcontractor situation, and to get blank magnets to cover the lettering would be less than $100. It would look awful, but hey, not my job:laugh:. Might end up going that route to try and keep the sub option available.

What are thoughts on the whole magnet cover?

Also, since my truck is maroon, she said my blue logo and writing wouldn't look very well, and suggested gray/silver. If the whole point in lettering you truck is to help with your brand, wouldn't changing the color be a waste? Our shirts, signs, website, everything has the blue. Should I just tell her I want to stick with that?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Pretty sure your truck is telling you something....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> What are thoughts on the whole magnet cover?


I love the idea.

If anyone asks why... you just tell them the truth. The guy who got the job hired me to do it for him and he wants me to hide my companies name.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Sounds like you've talked about vinyl lettering, which isn't a bad thing, but consider trailer wraps or half wraps, they can do some pretty kick ass designs with wraps.
I had my trailer lettered and the grass was printed, everything else was lettering.

Not sure if you use your truck personally, but I'd be weary of lettering a personal truck. Say you are speeding or driving like an ass on the highway, you risk having people call you and giving negative reviews on google and Yada yada ya.

Here's a picture of my trailer, I went to a franchise Signorama, and paid around 1700 for 3 sides.
They did a poor job on the grass the first time (printed on a white background, look like crap) had them re do it the right way.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> What are thoughts on the whole magnet cover?


And to elaborate more on this...

I think it is a joke when people say that you cannot have lettered trucks or wear your companies shirts. The subs that I hire all have lettered trucks. I prefer it as I know they are not a "here today, gone tomorrow contractor" typically...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JMHConstruction said:


> We also discussed my whole subcontractor situation, and to get blank magnets to cover the lettering would be less than $100. It would look awful, but hey, not my job:laugh:. Might end up going that route to try and keep the sub option available.
> 
> What are thoughts on the whole magnet cover?


If the only point is to hide your identity for the sake of the hiring contractor, who cares how pretty it is?



JMHConstruction said:


> Also, since my truck is maroon, she said my blue logo and writing wouldn't look very well, and suggested gray/silver. If the whole point in lettering you truck is to help with your brand, wouldn't changing the color be a waste? Our shirts, signs, website, everything has the blue. Should I just tell her I want to stick with that?


I would definitely trust the opinion of the professional regarding coloring even if it doesn't "match" your logo. If she says the color will look like hell, then believe her.

Or, as Mark said, perhaps you need a different color truck...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Not sure if you use your truck personally, but I'd be weary of lettering a personal truck. Say you are speeding or driving like an ass on the highway, you risk having people call you and giving negative reviews on google and Yada yada ya.


Pinging @Mark Oomkes Pinging...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> And to elaborate more on this...
> 
> I think it is a joke when people say that you cannot have lettered trucks or wear your companies shirts. The subs that I hire all have lettered trucks. I prefer it as I know they are not a "here today, gone tomorrow contractor" typically...


When you sell the work as doing it yourself, it looks rather odd to have another company show up to do the work.

I subscribe to the theory that people (companies) that insist on having subs without lettered trucks are simply trying to appear bigger than they are, and are using my image and manpower to do so. Therefore, I do not work with them.

I'm proud of the work my subs do, and I 100% believe they should be entitled to have their lettered trucks/machines and guys wearing their uniforms on the sites they sub from me.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Not sure if you use your truck personally, but I'd be weary of lettering a personal truck. Say you are speeding or driving like an ass on the highway, you risk having people call you and giving negative reviews on google and Yada yada ya.


A pet peeve of mine has been seeing a lettered/branded company truck parked at a liquor store or bar, now with recreation weed I'm seeing branded company trucks at weed shops which really gets me. While at lunch today I saw a lettered/ branded yard monkey truck at a weed shop and two chimps with small bags getting into it.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I'm surprised that no one has pointed out the obvious reason why contractors don't want their subs vehicles lettered: because they are afraid that client will say to themselves: "Well, hell, if JMH Construction is doing the work, I should have just hired him in the first place!"

Same thing with subbing for plowing and sanding. Why should I hire "Oomkes Landscape Management" to have "Joe Blow Plowing" show up to do the job anyway?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm surprised that no one has pointed out the obvious reason why contractors don't want their subs vehicles lettered: because they are afraid that client will say to themselves: "Well, hell, if JMH Construction is doing the work, I should have just hired him in the first place!"
> 
> Same thing with subbing for plowing and sanding. Why should I hire "Oomkes Landscape Management" to have "Joe Blow Plowing" show up to do the job anyway?


Some people don't want the headache of having customers of their own. All of my machine subs are that way. They want to work their stuff in the winter, but don't want the headache of having to manage a snow and ice operation.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm surprised that no one has pointed out the obvious reason why contractors don't want their subs vehicles lettered: because they are afraid that client will say to themselves: "Well, hell, if JMH Construction is doing the work, I should have just hired him in the first place!"
> 
> Same thing with subbing for plowing and sanding. Why should I hire "Oomkes Landscape Management" to have "Joe Blow Plowing" show up to do the job anyway?


Some places have a "list of approved contractors"

Couple hospitals, multiple factories that we do work for that need something done, they will call me to look at it and ask if I have a guy. Then I hire that guy, add my markup, and oversee the job. I am an approved vendor so the invoice to them comes threw me.

Also, when acting as a GC, the end result is still YOUR product. No mater if your subs do it or your own guys. If you hire the right subs, you are a hero, if you hire lames, you are black listed.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

BUFF said:


> A pet peeve of mine has been seeing a lettered/branded company truck parked at a liquor store or bar, now with recreation weed I'm seeing branded company trucks at weed shops which really gets me. While at lunch today I saw a lettered/ branded yard monkey truck at a weed shop and two chimps with small bags getting into it.


Meh... must be a demographic thing.

In my area, work trucks are at the local bars all the time. Never there long or late, but right after work, lots are full of them, but they all are there and gone by 5 or 6 to be home for supper.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Philbilly2 said:


> Pinging @Mark Oomkes Pinging...


Pretty sure he said something similar in a different thread, it was good advice 


BUFF said:


> A pet peeve of mine has been seeing a lettered/branded company truck parked at a liquor store or bar, now with recreation weed I'm seeing branded company trucks at weed shops which really gets me. While at lunch today I saw a lettered/ branded yard monkey truck at a weed shop and two chimps with small bags getting into it.


There's a Fire Chief in nearby city that brought his vehicle to a bar, that didn't go over well..


cwren2472 said:


> I'm surprised that no one has pointed out the obvious reason why contractors don't want their subs vehicles lettered: because they are afraid that client will say to themselves: "Well, hell, if JMH Construction is doing the work, I should have just hired him in the first place!"
> 
> Same thing with subbing for plowing and sanding. Why should I hire "Oomkes Landscape Management" to have "Joe Blow Plowing" show up to do the job anyway?


one of the companies I subbed for when I was just starting, supplies contractors with magnets. That company was huge and there's a couple people on here that worked there too. 
Not related to your post, but I kinda burned a bridge with that company (I regret that now) and when I get on a desktop I'll tell a little story of bas business practices


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Some places have a "list of approved contractors"
> 
> Couple hospitals, multiple factories that we do work for that need something done, they will call me to look at it and ask if I have a guy. Then I hire that guy, add my markup, and oversee the job. I am an approved vendor so the invoice to them comes threw me.
> 
> Also, when acting as a GC, the end result is still YOUR product. No mater if your subs do it or your own guys. If you hire the right subs, you are a hero, if you hire lames, you are black listed.


Sure, but that is why YOU don't mind that your subs have their vehicles lettered.

The guy that wants Matt to hide his company name is probably doing nothing more than reselling Matt's product/service at a marked up price. And I'll bet the guy doesn't even show up to "supervise" beyond showing up to collect his check from the homeowner


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> Meh... must be a demographic thing.
> 
> In my area, work trucks are at the local bars all the time. Never there long or late, but right after work, lots are full of them, but they all are there and gone by 5 or 6 to be home for supper.


I've had a few calls and or texts notifying me one of my trucks was parked at the liquor store... Usually from friends and family etc... Just tell them good they're done for the day....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Pinging @Mark Oomkes Pinging...


I don't recall that...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I've had a few calls and or texts notifying me one of my trucks was parked at the liquor store... Usually from friends and family etc... Just tell them good they're done for the day....


Years ago the local evening news was doing a piece on a drug house bust in Denver and in the footage there was a machine tool dealers service truck parked in the driveway of the house the bust took place. Once the service tech was released by the law he was fired.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Not sure if you use your truck personally, but I'd be weary of lettering a personal truck. Say you are speeding or driving like an ass on the highway, you risk having people call you and giving negative reviews on google and Yada yada ya.]


First, don't drive like a$$, exude professionalism at all times. If it happens..when they call say "Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I will have a word with the driver when he gets in." 
This works pretty much every time, except when I'm still sitting beside them at the light on my cell phone...


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## prezek (Dec 16, 2010)

If you are just starting out branding, you can get a cheap Maaco type paint job to make your truck whatever color you want. Depending on how much body work I've had done, my paint jobs run anywhere between 600-1000. Then about 150-200 to get lettered.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

The sub work is many for filler work. It's for a company (franchised deck company) that hires crews. He doesn't tell his customers he only uses subs. Those jobs are always a nightmare for me and the crew, and hopefully with the right advertising I can drop him.

I tell all my customers what we do in house, and what my subs do. It's easy to explain to them that my deck crew doesn't do roofing, but it might be hard to explain that a deck company doesn't have any deck builders...


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't recall that...


I actually laughed out loud when the lady suggested only putting a logo and website on the tailgate


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mr.Markus said:


> First, don't drive like a$$, exude professionalism at all times. If it happens..when they call say "Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I will have a word with the driver when he gets in."
> This works pretty much every time, except when I'm still sitting beside them at the light on my cell phone...


Ok


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> I actually laughed out loud when the lady suggested only putting a logo and website on the tailgate


Laugh all you want...

I have less than that on my service truck tailgate.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Laugh all you want...
> 
> I have less than that on my service truck tailgate.


And why is that???


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

prezek said:


> View attachment 184216
> If you are just starting out branding, you can get a cheap Maaco type paint job to make your truck whatever color you want. Depending on how much body work I've had done, my paint jobs run anywhere between 600-1000. Then about 150-200 to get lettered.


I did that in the 80s. Bought a van and truck at a utilities auction, took them to Earl Scheib (pre Maaco) and had them bondo some rust and shoot them the the "company color" a shade darker than they were. At least I looked somewhat respectable.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

EWSplow said:


> I did that in the 80s. Bought a van and truck at a utilities auction, took them to Earl Scheib (pre Maaco) and had them bondo some rust and shoot them the the "company color" a shade darker than they were. At least I looked somewhat respectable.


Did Earl charge you $29.95 for the paint


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BUFF said:


> Did Earl charge you $29.95 for the paint


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

EWSplow said:


> View attachment 184217


Huh I thought it was under $30 for paint, there was a couple in Denver that ran adds on local tv and radio.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BUFF said:


> Huh I thought it was under $30 for paint, there was a couple in Denver that ran adds on local tv and radio.


I don't remember. I think the price kept going up. Also, they charged a little more for the body work.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

EWSplow said:


> I don't remember. I think the price kept going up. Also, they charged a little more for the body work.


And taping oof windows.....


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BUFF said:


> And taping oof windows.....


And any chrome moldings, etc. You get what you pay for. 
I'd always call the manager Earl when I went in. They'd be wearing coveralls, but throw on an old sport coat and clip on tie over their coveralls to deal with customers.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> And taping oof windows.....


They taped windows? I thought you had to do that.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> And why is that???


Less is more?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

We recently hired a new marketing firm and they were in this morning to go over several things with us. I asked them what percentage of annual gross sales is typically spent on marketing and I was told 8% which I think is high but the 8% is based on annual 20% growth which is a lot but achievable.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BUFF said:


> We recently hired a new marketing firm and they were in this morning to go over several things with us. I asked them what percentage of annual gross sales is typically spent on marketing and I was told 8% which I think is high but the 8% is based on annual 20% growth which is a lot but achievable.


yikes! Did the marketing company happen to quote a source for that statistic?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> yikes! Did the marketing company happen to quote a source for that statistic?


Yes, like most industry's there's focus groups that collect data of trends, etc....
This firm is charging us $3,400/month and we have a 12month agreement in place. It may sound like a lot but they're one of the few firms that focuses on what we do.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BUFF said:


> We recently hired a new marketing firm and they were in this morning to go over several things with us. I asked them what percentage of annual gross sales is typically spent on marketing and I was told 8% which I think is high but the 8% is based on annual 20% growth which is a lot but achievable.


So, 20% annual growth is the national average.
Do you think 60% annual growth is achievable?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

BUFF said:


> Yes, like most industry's there's focus groups that collect data of trends, etc....
> This firm is charging us $3,400/month and we have a 12month agreement in place. It may sound like a lot but they're one of the few firms that focuses on what we do.


I'm guessing that $3400 is a lot less than 8% of your gross, also. Doesn't really seem that bad to me, especially if it produces results.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I think a lot would depend on profit margins too. If profits from getting the extra work easily pays for the added marketing, I don't see why not.

I was thinking to try and be in the 5-7% range, so 8% is fairly close to what I was thinking.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

EWSplow said:


> So, 20% annual growth is the national average.
> Do you think 60% annual growth is achievable?


20% growth is a big number, yes it can be done but it's a lofty task and would be hard to repeat year after year.
We've been averaging 10-12% growth and to the point were we've out grown our buildings. Been looking for warehouse space to gain more room to expansion.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I'm guessing that $3400 is a lot less than 8% of your gross, also. Doesn't really seem that bad to me, especially if it produces results.


We just finished up our fiscal year on 8/31. Our gross for the year was $44m and change.
Last fiscal year between sales geek salary's, trade shows and marketing we spent about $850K.


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## the Suburbanite (Jan 27, 2018)

BUFF said:


> 20% growth is a big number, yes it can be done but it's a lofty task and would be hard to repeat year after year.
> We've been averaging 10-12% growth and to the point were we've out grown our buildings. Been looking for warehouse space to gain more room to expansion.


I'm guessing warehouse space is at a premium in your State


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> 20% growth is a big number, yes it can be done but it's a lofty task and would be hard to repeat year after year.


So 60% would be next to impossible? And sustaining it?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

the Suburbanite said:


> I'm guessing warehouse space is at a premium in your State


For something with 2 docks and ground level OH door it is in Boulder County.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So 60% would be next to impossible? And sustaining it?


For a start up / first year it wood be more feasible however it'd flatten oot pretty quick unless you're offering something that isn't readily available or you only offer. It's the supply and demand thingy.


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Facebook is your best bang for buck look up videos how to make a Facebook ad


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

The Snow Punishers said:


> Facebook is your best bang for buck look up videos how to make a Facebook ad


That is not true I get 90% response rate from direct mailers, I send 5000 a quarter


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

BossPlow2010 said:


> That is not true I get 90% response rate from direct mailers, I send 5000 a quarter


In my opinion where I'm located in NY Facebook is the best. You can target a single block


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

The Snow Punishers said:


> In my opinion where I'm located in NY Facebook is the best. You can target a single block


I was kidding, we use Facebook as well, and it works well


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Facebook got me diddly squat. 1 tire kicker. It was viewed by quite a few, I believe 10k or something.

I ran an ad for a free composite decking upgrade (my main business). Might work better for lawn or snow work.


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## prezek (Dec 16, 2010)

JMHConstruction said:


> Facebook got me diddly squat. 1 tire kicker. It was viewed by quite a few, I believe 10k or something.
> 
> I ran an ad for a free composite decking upgrade (my main business). Might work better for lawn or snow work.


I only run my FB ad in the spring/early summer to tighten up our routes, fill schedules, etc, but the response definitely dies down as the season progresses. I would imagine the same would be for decks? Have to imagine people are less likely to spend after mid summer unless they are already on the books?


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

prezek said:


> I only run my FB ad in the spring/early summer to tighten up our routes, fill schedules, etc, but the response definitely dies down as the season progresses. I would imagine the same would be for decks? Have to imagine people are less likely to spend after mid summer unless they are already on the books?


Correct.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

We use to find employees.
It lets people apply through Facebook and then sends the the resumè to my phone.
I can even have a few pre qualifying questions to narrow people out.

Then if I like the response, I can look at their profile, based on someones posts, you can tell a lot about how they act...


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

JMHConstruction said:


> Facebook got me diddly squat. 1 tire kicker. It was viewed by quite a few, I believe 10k or something.
> 
> I ran an ad for a free composite decking upgrade (my main business). Might work better for lawn or snow work.


Yes I admit it has a huge learning curve but once you find out who to target it becomes so cheap to market to them honest


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BossPlow2010 said:


> We use to find employees.
> 
> Then if I like the response, I can look at their profile, based on someones posts, you can tell a lot about how they act...


I'm out :laugh:


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

EWSplow said:


> I'm out :laugh:


About time, you were so far in the closet, you were finding Christmas presents.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

BossPlow2010 said:


> About time, you were so far in the closet, you were finding Christmas presents.


Ditto! :laugh::laugh:


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