# Commercial Equipment?



## alcl1 (Dec 30, 2016)

recently had an offer to bid a contract for 3 dept stores here in the city. each parking lot is approx 7 acres, 30 minute drive time between each property and snow is to be piled in 3 sections... zero tolerance lots all required to be done by 6am and can start as early as 10:30pm when applicable... my question is approx how many pieces of equipment do you know to send to a property accordingly - as in i have 3 plow trucks and 1 skid - but also intend to service other lots... they are asking for per push pricing and monthly - for reference of numbers for my area a similiar lot size for walmart here - they were paying $5000.00 a month each property... since having volume and needing to be done quickly and efficiently on all lots - how do i present the bid stating how much equipment will be at each property for the estimate?


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Who offered it?


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

With zero tolerance lots, and having a 30 min drive to get to each, you are going to have to have dedicated equipment for each lot. Before I went out on my own, I worked for a different company and. He had both Walmarts in town, Home Depot, target stores etc. On the zero tolerance lots, like Walmart, which weren't even true zero tolerance lots, basically once you started getting accumulating snow plowing operations began. Once you started plowing, the equipment for that lot ran continuously until the storm was over, and final clean up was done. 

If it's truly zero tolerance, your equipment will never leave that lot. For the above lot, we ran two plow trucks, a bobcat, and 2-3 shovelers. If it was a bad storm he would add another plow truck to help catch up, and then cut it loose for another route again. The bobcat was on a route, and would leave to hit other places, but it was only a couple minute drive in the bobcat to get to the other properties. Everything else never left once we started.


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## alcl1 (Dec 30, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> With zero tolerance lots, and having a 30 min drive to get to each, you are going to have to have dedicated equipment for each lot. Before I went out on my own, I worked for a different company and. He had both Walmarts in town, Home Depot, target stores etc. On the zero tolerance lots, like Walmart, which weren't even true zero tolerance lots, basically once you started getting accumulating snow plowing operations began. Once you started plowing, the equipment for that lot ran continuously until the storm was over, and final clean up was done.
> 
> If it's truly zero tolerance, your equipment will never leave that lot. For the above lot, we ran two plow trucks, a bobcat, and 2-3 shovelers. If it was a bad storm he would add another plow truck to help catch up, and then cut it loose for another route again. The bobcat was on a route, and would leave to hit other places, but it was only a couple minute drive in the bobcat to get to the other properties. Everything else never left once we started.


Fair enough thanks for the response. And that's what their repquesting as soon as it snows we're there... but point being if I have other routes and all my equiptment is there I'll be kind of SOL.. when it comes to larger lots how do you justify having X amount of equiptment there per charge (if that makes sense) like loose figures, 7 acre lot say u can clear 1 acre an hour with 1 truck, how do you justify in price and how much equipment to be at a site like this? Loaded question I know but I'm use to smaller lots where one truck is in and out.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

What a avg snowfall?

Assuming it's usually a dry/powdery snow based of ur location...... Probably not a lot of lake effect either.


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## alcl1 (Dec 30, 2016)

We get 60 events per season 40 inches - based on a 10 year review


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

I can't help with the numbers on this I'm sorry. Lots of others can. I don't do anything this big. Like I said I was working for another outfit when I was plowing these lots. The owner owned all his equipment. He had like 20 front line trucks and a few back up trucks, like 8 bobcats, cinder truck, street sweeper, wheel loader, etc. But I know a lot of guys lease snow equipment for the season for lots like this, and set up the accounts on seasonal, with monthly payments that cover all the lease costs, then normal labor and profit etc like you would if owned the equipment. Lots of this size with zero tolerance have to pay thousands of dollars per month per site to get that level of service.


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## alcl1 (Dec 30, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> I can't help with the numbers on this I'm sorry. Lots of others can. I don't do anything this big. Like I said I was working for another outfit when I was plowing these lots. The owner owned all his equipment. He had like 20 front line trucks and a few back up trucks, like 8 bobcats, cinder truck, street sweeper, wheel loader, etc. But I know a lot of guys lease snow equipment for the season for lots like this, and set up the accounts on seasonal, with monthly payments that cover all the lease costs, then normal labor and profit etc like you would if owned the equipment. Lots of this size with zero tolerance have to pay thousands of dollars per month per site to get that level of service.


No problem I understand. I don't overly feel comfortable with the bid so I think I am going to decline... i don't understand in this Scenario for the bid, I mean leasing or renting the equipment then employee wages and profit etc- I may be throwing in a high bid and never get it- then staffing issues have to hire to carry out existing routes... may just be a headache at this time in trying to build... there is another contract that's coming up it's a condo, all walkways and parking lot. 2.5 acres total - I'm thinking 3 guys with snow blowers for walks and 2 trucks but not sure if that would be over kill or not.. a family member is on the board they had told me they were paying previously 1500 per month for it all - unlimited clearing... I'll post a pic for a better idea


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## alcl1 (Dec 30, 2016)

this is the condo - i dont have to do the inside patio for their gates but all walkways, alley and parking stalls.. no where to pile they want it removed.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

alcl1 said:


> this is the condo - i dont have to do the inside patio for their gates but all walkways, alley and parking stalls.. no where to pile they want it removed.
> 
> View attachment 169457


Don't do that place for $1500/month!
Unlimited clearing and hauling it away? You can't make money on that.
I had a condo place some yrs ago with as much walkway maybe a little more and a small parking area...20-25 cars. Most parking was underground. I was getting $550 to clear snow and salt everything each time at 1-3.9" ( went up as inches went up ). Their bills would be $3000 - $5000 every month.


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## alcl1 (Dec 30, 2016)

WIPensFan said:


> Don't do that place for $1500/month!
> Unlimited clearing and hauling it away? You can't make money on that.
> I had a condo place some yrs ago with as much walkway maybe a little more and a small parking area...20-25 cars. Most parking was underground. I was getting $550 to clear snow and salt everything each time at 1-3.9" ( went up as inches went up ). Their bills would be $3000 - $5000 every month.


oh i know i found out the price and i said that was amazingly low... then further homework found that they came to an agreement for that existing company to cut the grass during summer months for the same price... kind of off set.. but that being said i plan on providing a seperate quote for lawn in summer, and winter... my only issue is the walks cause they would take alot more time vs that lot.. i figure around 3 hours to clear and when i have a skid and trailer come by after charge out an additional hour for that and my price for the month unlimited i factored around 4000.00 per month including the dump? i can break it down for per push events as well


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## alcl1 (Dec 30, 2016)

but also full knowing at that price they may walk because of the fact they were only paying 18000 year round, at 4000 for 6 months thats 24000... big margin of difference...


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

alcl1 said:


> oh i know i found out the price and i said that was amazingly low... then further homework found that they came to an agreement for that existing company to cut the grass during summer months for the same price... kind of off set.. but that being said i plan on providing a seperate quote for lawn in summer, and winter... my only issue is the walks cause they would take alot more time vs that lot.. i figure around 3 hours to clear and when i have a skid and trailer come by after charge out an additional hour for that and my price for the month unlimited i factored around 4000.00 per month including the dump? i can break it down for per push events as well


That's the kicker...you'll NEVER get it at that price because they only paid $1500/month in the past. You can give it a shot though. Good luck with it.


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## alcl1 (Dec 30, 2016)

WIPensFan said:


> That's the kicker...you'll NEVER get it at that price because they only paid $1500/month in the past. You can give it a shot though. Good luck with it.


my first year i may be better off quoting per event and come out after every snow fall. do the lot when only requested and ease them back into monthly if possible. was thinking 400.00 for 1-4 525 4.1-8 650 for 8.1 to 12 then a dump come in as needed for 150 + dump fee's. past couple of winters we have been milder and less snow falls this year - thus far we've only had 7 for 3 months. any thoughts?


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Dont work for someone else prices when they most likely couldnt make money doing it


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## alcl1 (Dec 30, 2016)

iceyman said:


> Dont work for someone else prices when they most likely couldnt make money doing it


no i wont, i have overhead just like everyone else. i know what my bottom line is at the end of the day and what i need to pull profit and efficient service. im budgeting 3 shovellers with snow blowers, 1 plow and sand in parking lot salt on walkways. additional for removal.


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