# Plowing with non-loader farm tractors



## SDLandscapes VT (Dec 17, 2008)

A high horsepower, non loader arm, 4x4 farm tractor with a HLA speedwing or Kage seems like a very efficient and mobile way to plow--does anyone have any experience with this type of setup pros and cons


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## nixray (Jan 31, 2008)

I think there are a few Canadian based contractors that have a set up like this. There is a JD farm tractor (BIG but unsure of the model) for sale with a 10' blizzard for sale near me. Ill get info next time I'm over there.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

JD Dave I think is the guy you want to talk to. I'm pretty sure he runs similar setups.


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## buildinon (Oct 6, 2011)

I run the 3200 series HLA's but on skids here. I don't have the need for them on what you are talking about but if you go to youtube and search them their demo video has one set up on what your are mentioning.


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## buildinon (Oct 6, 2011)

Here you go:


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## hatefulmechanic (Dec 27, 2012)

They work great, and have the weight to push heavy snow.

Main issue is stacking, if you are doing an HLA on a tractor you can only stack about 7-8' high, if its on a loader on the tractor you can do 10-15'.

Some people are concerned about the load and force applied through the loader arms, which is why a lot of people do tractor mounted frames instead. That, and cost.


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

We run 2 tractors with snow wings. Way quicker than trucks. they will each replace 3-4 pickups. for example, my f250 with boss v 8'2" will plow a yard in 2 hours. the smaller 10'/16' blade on a 100hp tractor can do the same yard in 30min. I also have a back blade on the tractor which makes it quicker too. saves a lot of time turning a big heavy tractor around and back dragging when there are obstacles and loading docks. the blades are pricy but if you consider for most yards one tractor, one operator can do what 4 trucks and 4 operators can do in the same time. of course, parking lot layout will have some factor on how much more efficent the tractor is. here is a pic of the gear we run.


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## SDLandscapes VT (Dec 17, 2008)

It seems even faster than a loader for clearing lots--I m thinking about this type of setup and then having one loader for post storm to stack and bail piles....thoughts?


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## hatefulmechanic (Dec 27, 2012)

Very good option. If you have heavy skid steers an HLA on one is an AMAZING machine. 

One tractor with a 10-16 HLA will clear an average large commercial lot QUICKLY. They also clean very well due to the weight, pulling up hardpack if that is an issue.


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## potskie (Feb 9, 2011)

hatefulmechanic;1566081 said:


> They work great, and have the weight to push heavy snow.
> 
> Main issue is stacking, if you are doing an HLA on a tractor you can only stack about 7-8' high, if its on a loader on the tractor you can do 10-15'.
> 
> Some people are concerned about the load and force applied through the loader arms, which is why a lot of people do tractor mounted frames instead. That, and cost.


I don't recommend stacking at all with the HLA undermounts. The main issue in my experience is once you start stacking with them you will start blowing hoses, rams, snapping front mount bolts and losing pins. I don't know why this is but it is. To the point I'm on a first name basis with the parts guy at the HLA factory lol. He even gave me a sweet jacket I was in there so much.

But used properly that exact setup moves some serious snow. A good well versed operator can plow multiple acres per hr even if it's 12" deep.

After managing a fleet of these units I can say this if you can find them in your area try a metal plessis or team storm unit. Same concept as an HLA blade but faster and lighter. Also way less moving parts and the parts are more common hence cheaper.

Unless you have very high HP tractors or get a stupid amount of snow in your area stick to the 4000 series. The taller 5000 series is usually just more weight and not that much more useful.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Machinability IMO makes the best snowwing plows... Check them out before horst and metal plessis


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

bcbrouwer;1566083 said:


> We run 2 tractors with snow wings. Way quicker than trucks. they will each replace 3-4 pickups. for example, my f250 with boss v 8'2" will plow a yard in 2 hours. the smaller 10'/16' blade on a 100hp tractor can do the same yard in 30min. I also have a back blade on the tractor which makes it quicker too. saves a lot of time turning a big heavy tractor around and back dragging when there are obstacles and loading docks. the blades are pricy but if you consider for most yards one tractor, one operator can do what 4 trucks and 4 operators can do in the same time. of course, parking lot layout will have some factor on how much more efficent the tractor is. here is a pic of the gear we run.


I will fully agree on the speed of tractors over trucks. We have one tractor that we put a 12' blade on the front, and a 8' on the back three point. Works really quick in town. Thats a JD 6420. The whole John deere 64 Series is what I would recommend. If you get the 20 series or above, you'll be MUCH happier with the visibility. They make really really good loader tractors too with the left hand reverser. Just get front wheel assist.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Hard to beat a Horst Snowing and tractor. We really have had virtually no problems with our over the 6 years we've owned them. Been running Horst pushers since 2000 and for the money you can't beat the product. All of their blades use global quick tach which is the same as most modern farm loader. Having the same QT makes it very easy to move blades from harness to loader or if you need to float blades or bring them into the shop for sevice work all your blades have the same QT. Horst also has a parellel lift harness which is by far the best harness on the market. We have only had minor problems with the QT on them in over 10 years of use. Maybe my guys aren't as rough as others on things. We own around 12 Horst blades and I will have to think long and hard about buying any other product. We are also only an hour away from the factory and that is very hard ot beat. My dad started plowing with farm tractors 40 years ago and when you take price/reliability and speed into the picture a properly equipped tractor is near impossible to beat. I just traded a JD 7220 that we bought new in 2004 for $74,700.00. This particular tractor was used on the farm and snow and had 2300 hrs on it. They gave me 48,000 for it and allowed me to use it for the rest of this snow season. It has done 9 complete snow seasons since new and we have spent roughly 5k on maintenance and repairs since new. You can do the math and see for yourself if I made any money on that deal. Thumbs Up


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

I have a 7740 Ford with a 11' Coats plow with custom made 4x4 side wings That will still let plow full trip This was a good setup in 1993 I still run it 
Only wish it was a trip edge 
Them HLA looks like a plow to have


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## StratfordPusher (Dec 20, 2006)

*Dito*



JD Dave;1566238 said:


> Hard to beat a Horst Snowing and tractor. We really have had virtually no problems with our over the 6 years we've owned them. Been running Horst pushers since 2000 and for the money you can't beat the product. All of their blades use global quick tach which is the same as most modern farm loader. Having the same QT makes it very easy to move blades from harness to loader or if you need to float blades or bring them into the shop for sevice work all your blades have the same QT. Horst also has a parellel lift harness which is by far the best harness on the market. We have only had minor problems with the QT on them in over 10 years of use. Maybe my guys aren't as rough as others on things. We own around 12 Horst blades and I will have to think long and hard about buying any other product. We are also only an hour away from the factory and that is very hard ot beat. My dad started plowing with farm tractors 40 years ago and when you take price/reliability and speed into the picture a properly equipped tractor is near impossible to beat. I just traded a JD 7220 that we bought new in 2004 for $74,700.00. This particular tractor was used on the farm and snow and had 2300 hrs on it. They gave me 48,000 for it and allowed me to use it for the rest of this snow season. It has done 9 complete snow seasons since new and we have spent roughly 5k on maintenance and repairs since new. You can do the math and see for yourself if I made any money on that deal. Thumbs Up


Have to totally agree with Dave, Horst is hard to beat, have owned 8 of them and they have all been 99% trouble free.
I run my on loader arms and have not bent or broken anything. Trick is good operators
and don't overload them... I did run a belly mount system for a couple of winters and went
to loaders because of limited stacking abilities of belly mounts.

JD, sounds like you did well on that JD trade... Thumbs Up Thumbs Up if you take care of your equipment you can't loose much on a tractor, my last Kubota M-100 which I paid 45.000 used sold 4 yrs later with 600 more hrs on it for 43.000... thought I did well as it cost me nothing to operator and own for 4 years Thumbs Up

Goodluck with your decision.....


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## blizzardsnow (Feb 3, 2009)

I have been thinking of utilizing my farm tractors as well. I was concerned about the stress I would put on the loader arms, not to mention how long the whole setup would be... I would think one of my loaderless tractors would be a lot more nimble navigating islands and light poles. Or does it really matter much?


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

JD Dave;1566238 said:


> Hard to beat a Horst Snowing and tractor. We really have had virtually no problems with our over the 6 years we've owned them. Been running Horst pushers since 2000 and for the money you can't beat the product. All of their blades use global quick tach which is the same as most modern farm loader. Having the same QT makes it very easy to move blades from harness to loader or if you need to float blades or bring them into the shop for sevice work all your blades have the same QT. Horst also has a parellel lift harness which is by far the best harness on the market. We have only had minor problems with the QT on them in over 10 years of use. Maybe my guys aren't as rough as others on things. We own around 12 Horst blades and I will have to think long and hard about buying any other product. We are also only an hour away from the factory and that is very hard ot beat. My dad started plowing with farm tractors 40 years ago and when you take price/reliability and speed into the picture a properly equipped tractor is near impossible to beat. I just traded a JD 7220 that we bought new in 2004 for $74,700.00. This particular tractor was used on the farm and snow and had 2300 hrs on it. They gave me 48,000 for it and allowed me to use it for the rest of this snow season. It has done 9 complete snow seasons since new and we have spent roughly 5k on maintenance and repairs since new. You can do the math and see for yourself if I made any money on that deal. Thumbs Up


Showoff.........

(Listen to this guy, he knows what he's talking aboot, most of the time anyways)


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

blizzardsnow;1566355 said:


> I have been thinking of utilizing my farm tractors as well. I was concerned about the stress I would put on the loader arms, not to mention how long the whole setup would be... I would think one of my loaderless tractors would be a lot more nimble navigating islands and light poles. Or does it really matter much?


I'm no expert about them in a large town, but in the small town that we've plowed friends driveways and allies for years and one small gas station, we've never had an issue with lenth of the machines. Having a back blade really helps though, if it's to small of an area to drive forward in, most times we can back in and get it with the back blade.


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

I have 2 frame mount Snowwings on a 130 Puma CVT, and a Maxxum 120.
No real problems. On install we armour all the hoses with hose wrap, this solves the problem of hoses chaffing. We had zero problems with frame bolts, but have broken the tire saver arms on both. We did order a new replacement, for 1 we welded twice and Horse has upgraded then with thicker metal. The right operator, and a little sticky snow and you can build a ramp and stack almost as high as a loader.
Love the CVT, can't go back to a power shift, plus my 145 I've clocked at 48 KPH, or for you southern folks, about 29 MPH!


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Is that a snowex mounted on the back of your tractor ?


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

blizzardsnow;1566355 said:


> I have been thinking of utilizing my farm tractors as well. I was concerned about the stress I would put on the loader arms, not to mention how long the whole setup would be... I would think one of my loaderless tractors would be a lot more nimble navigating islands and light poles. Or does it really matter much?


I only run a 9' snowwing on the 145 loader tractor, 10' on the 120, and 12' on the 130 frame mounts. You have to have a good operator or run it yourself to run a big blade on a loader tractor. I saw a loader on a Maxxum 120 last year with a 10' 3500 Horst pusher, with the pusher touching the front wheels after a guy hit an island in a parking lot, at speed.
The Horst pusher didn't have a dent, but the loader arms were totaled.

Bill


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## LuckyPlower (Dec 8, 2012)

I have heard people talk about counter weights on tractors. Are they only needed when you have a light weight tractor? Do you have to have something on the back like a blower/blade/counter weight when running something like a 10-16 HLA?


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## blizzardsnow (Feb 3, 2009)

nsmilligan;1566702 said:


> I only run a 9' snowwing on the 145 loader tractor, 10' on the 120, and 12' on the 130 frame mounts. You have to have a good operator or run it yourself to run a big blade on a loader tractor. I saw a loader on a Maxxum 120 last year with a 10' 3500 Horst pusher, with the pusher touching the front wheels after a guy hit an island in a parking lot, at speed.
> The Horst pusher didn't have a dent, but the loader arms were totaled.


That is my concern. Fortunately everyone that currently runs our equipment has vast farming experience. Do you have much trouble cruising around town with it? Or do you leave it at a large complex?


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

Superior L & L;1566700 said:


> Is that a snowex mounted on the back of your tractor ?


Yes the snowex they don't make: http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=110711

Cruising, all are 40 KPH tractors or 25 MPH, but the CVT's, do about 28-29 MPH, so we don't hold up traffic around town

Bill


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Our 6420s and the like are all partial powershift, or power quad. The go 26 mph. We have no issues in town. The older 40 series on the other hand, those are SLOOOOOW tractors. Those you will have mad people all over the place.


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## serafii (Nov 29, 2009)

ive been plowing with my tn95da for 4-5 years2 now and i wouldnt change it for the world. we used to do 120 residential driveways with 2 trucks in about 4-5 hours. it takes me 3-4 hours in my tractor alone.


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## blizzardsnow (Feb 3, 2009)

That is a good looking setup. I imagine that expandable makes quick work of a resi. Do you do any commercial? Curious if the back blade is much help in a large parking lot. (Other than loading docks)


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## serafii (Nov 29, 2009)

For the few commercials I do, the back ow isn't much use besides for the loading docks. The expandable plows are awesome. I love them. Pricey but worth every penny


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

LuckyPlower;1566710 said:


> I have heard people talk about counter weights on tractors. Are they only needed when you have a light weight tractor? Do you have to have something on the back like a blower/blade/counter weight when running something like a 10-16 HLA?


you need some form of weight out back. without it, in 2wd, you just spin your bak tires and so much weight is on the front end. this in on a 16,000lb 135hp john deere and a 13000lb 105hp jd. heavy tractors, but you need balest. loaded tires or wheel weights help some, but it is really benificial to have weight behind the rear axle, plus, it gives the tractor more versitility. back blades for me work best, weigh about 1300lb for a 10' and increases plow times 15-40%, depending on lots (wide open,loading docks, square corners where you cant push snow) some guys have big concrete blocks mounted to the 3pt hitch arms, but you loose a function of the tractor.


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## LuckyPlower (Dec 8, 2012)

bcbrouwer;1566970 said:


> you need some form of weight out back. without it, in 2wd, you just spin your bak tires and so much weight is on the front end. this in on a 16,000lb 135hp john deere and a 13000lb 105hp jd. heavy tractors, but you need balest. loaded tires or wheel weights help some, but it is really benificial to have weight behind the rear axle, plus, it gives the tractor more versitility. back blades for me work best, weigh about 1300lb for a 10' and increases plow times 15-40%, depending on lots (wide open,loading docks, square corners where you cant push snow) some guys have big concrete blocks mounted to the 3pt hitch arms, but you loose a function of the tractor.


Makes sense. I'm new to the tractor world, so just trying to learn. So from what I gather it sounds like a good set-up would be a tractor with a blade on the front mounted to the frame and not on arms, with a blade on the back for balance, better traction and function. Arms would help stack higher and let you load the blade on a trailer etc.. all depends on your needs.

Do back blades really increase efficiency that much? if your pushing straight I could see it doing nothing.... on a bend I could see it picking up your outside edge a bit. It can save you some seconds from flippin wings for back draggin by just backing your rear in and going? I will search the forum a bit too, as I'm sure some of this is old news for some. Thanks.


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

I run blowers on 2 of my tractors on back, about 2000lbs. This gives traction, great for blowing out loading docks, and I can move more snow faster then a loader, as long as I have a place to blow it. 

Bill


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

LuckyPlower;1567097 said:


> Makes sense. I'm new to the tractor world, so just trying to learn. So from what I gather it sounds like a good set-up would be a tractor with a blade on the front mounted to the frame and not on arms, with a blade on the back for balance, better traction and function. Arms would help stack higher and let you load the blade on a trailer etc.. all depends on your needs.
> 
> Do back blades really increase efficiency that much? if your pushing straight I could see it doing nothing.... on a bend I could see it picking up your outside edge a bit. It can save you some seconds from flippin wings for back draggin by just backing your rear in and going? I will search the forum a bit too, as I'm sure some of this is old news for some. Thanks.


I like hear more


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## scott3430 (Dec 28, 2010)

That's a beast of a snow machine! I bet it could be pretty efficient on commercial lots.


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

serafii;1566858 said:


> ive been plowing with my tn95da for 4-5 years2 now and i wouldnt change it for the world. we used to do 120 residential driveways with 2 trucks in about 4-5 hours. it takes me 3-4 hours in my tractor alone.


serafii, what brand is the rear expandable plow? would love to get something like that someday. great for removing and carrying lots of snow from where it is to where it needs to go to be piled. do you know the weight of them, lets say a 9' which would expand to what, 14'?


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## hatefulmechanic (Dec 27, 2012)

http://ssta.info/en/series-t-rear-plow.html


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