# Just installed Snoway ST .... Float and Down Pressure Questions..



## Flatulentvandal (Nov 19, 2008)

I just got my Snoway ST mounted on my Sport Trac last night (only took 6 hours!)... Everything seems to work as it should... Lights, Remote, Up, left, right... 

Except.....

The plow drops VERY slowly in float mode... How best to address this?

Also, the Down pressure, when activated pulsates loudly.... I have never seen a plow with DP before, so I don't know how it is supposed to operate properly... Is this correct? Is it supposed to pulsate?

I cannot really tell if its applying downward pressure by looking at it... It looks like the cylinder is moving outward, pushing the blade down, but hard to tell....

Any advice appreciated..


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## JeepTJ (Nov 4, 2006)

Flatulentvandal;1107705 said:


> I just got my Snoway ST mounted on my Sport Trac last night (only took 6 hours!)... Everything seems to work as it should... Lights, Remote, Up, left, right...
> 
> Except.....
> 
> ...


Good luck with the ST!!. They're a great little plow. Watch the gap between your front fender and the top of your tire. It should increase by 1/2 to 1 inch when in DP mode.

I have trouble with snow piling up over the top of the 18 inch moldboard. You may want to add some type of deflector to "increase" the height of the blade.

Fran


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

they do go down slowly
the clicking is the DP cycling....it has a pressure relief in it that clicks


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## Flatulentvandal (Nov 19, 2008)

hydro_37;1107740 said:


> they do go down slowly
> the clicking is the DP cycling....it has a pressure relief in it that clicks


Hydro: Does it sound like I need to address this? Or is it your opinion that its working properly?


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

Flatulentvandal;1107705 said:


> Also, the Down pressure, when activated pulsates loudly.... I have never seen a plow with DP before, so I don't know how it is supposed to operate properly... Is this correct? Is it supposed to pulsate?
> 
> I cannot really tell if its applying downward pressure by looking at it...


It's normal.

If it's working..you should be able to tell. When the plow is in DP, it takes a bit longer to start the raising of the plow from the ground...kinda like a chain lift plow waiting for the slack to tighten before lifting.. And it should also lift up on your front end a bit when activated.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Ok three separate items here;

First; Snoway but a very small orifice in one year. They received complaints they drop too fast an went a little too far the other direction. There is an orifice that can be changed to increase the drop speed. Snoway received complaints about the dropping too fast so they decreased the orifice size, went a little overboard IMO. The old orifice use to be .097 and they went to a .043 Before we deliver them (26 series) we remove the orifice and drill it out to 3/32 (.093) or go to your Snoway dealer and order a orifice kit.

part # 11 on page ten http://www.snoway.com/service/Parts%.../97101026g.pdf

Second; does your down pressure hammer (cycle repeatedly?) if so does it drift down slowly when it is raised? if it does not drift down than you need to address the Pressure Relief in the DP system. Check back with the results once you check and we'll go from there.

Third; if there is a delay in lifting you probably need a bushing kit or lift links depending on what is worn. The lift on any Direct lift plow should be instantaneous, there is a slight delay with the wireless units. I will get you a bushing kit number if you find you need them


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## Flatulentvandal (Nov 19, 2008)

MileHigh;1107981 said:


> It's normal.
> 
> If it's working..you should be able to tell. When the plow is in DP, it takes a bit longer to start the raising of the plow from the ground...kinda like a chain lift plow waiting for the slack to tighten before lifting.. And it should also lift up on your front end a bit when activated.


I do not believe it is lifting up my front end the DP is activated... 
However, after measuring, my front end is only sagging 1/2" when the plow is raised... As opposed to when its on the ground in float.... 
Should the DP be lifting the front end higher than where it sits with plow resting down? (in effect, pushing the front end up?)

Also, it does not take longer for the plow to come up from float or DP, both about the same...


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## Flatulentvandal (Nov 19, 2008)

basher;1108007 said:


> Ok three separate items here;
> 
> First; Snoway but a very small orifice in one year. They received complaints they drop too fast an went a little too far the other direction. There is an orifice that can be changed to increase the drop speed. Snoway received complaints about the dropping too fast so they decreased the orifice size, went a little overboard IMO. The old orifice use to be .097 and they went to a .043 Before we deliver them (26 series) we remove the orifice and drill it out to 3/32 (.093) or go to your Snoway dealer and order a orifice kit.
> 
> ...


I just posted this (52 sec.) video on Youtube to give a better idea of how slowly the plow drops, and to illustrate how the DP is operating....






Check it out and let me know what you think.....


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

I would definately get the orifice kit the Basher suggests. Also your DP is not operating properly as it should not continually cycle that way.


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## festerw (Sep 25, 2003)

yea that's not right and the thunking sound with DP engaged would be the "hammering" basher was talking about.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Yeah that's what we call hammer Ok, first change the fluid, run a couple quarts of Meyer Hyda-flush though it. Then drain it and refill with premium snowplow fluid. It is possible that this will fix some or all of your issues, it is amazing what a good cleaning will do. Even if it does not solve your issues it is the first thing you should do to any "new to you" product.

If it is still too slow you will need to change/drill the orifice.

Here is the service manual page 8 describes the orifice and how to service it.

http://www.snoway.com/service/Monarch Repair/MonarchRepairManual.pdf

This is your parts service manual

http://www.snoway.com/service/Updates/97100740G.pdf

pages # 15/16 contains the correct drawing of your hydraulic unit. The orifice is # 16 in the drawing. You can either buy the kit (#96106105) or drill it out. if you drill it DO NOT do it in place, you must first remove it from the pump. You can drill it with a 1/16 drill to start but most people prefer the speed that 5/64 or 3/32 provide.

The hammering is normally cause by one of two things, a bad lift ram, most often seen as a slow drift down when raised, a hammering under DP and lack of DP. The other is a stuck, tired or improperly adjusted DP pressure relief (PR). If the lift ram stays up then you need to remove and clean the PR. Remove and clean it ( #11 on pages #15/16), if you disassemble it count the number of turns required to remove the internal adjuster so you can return it to is original position. After all the cleaning if the unit is still hammering you will need to adjust the PR. First remove the cap, then turn the adjuster in a quarter turn at a time until the hammering stops. Adjust it with the DP turn off for the best results.


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## JeepTJ (Nov 4, 2006)

I forgot to mention in my previous post: You may want to write the word JACK in bright letters across the horizontal part of the light bar. You should write it so you can read it from the cab of your truck. It wouldn't hurt to also write it on the plastic cover of the pump assembly. It's a good reminder to lock the jack up in place before you drive off. BTDT.:realmad:

Fran


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## Flatulentvandal (Nov 19, 2008)

JeepTJ;1108391 said:


> I forgot to mention in my previous post: You may want to write the word JACK in bright letters across the horizontal part of the light bar. You should write it so you can read it from the cab of your truck. It wouldn't hurt to also write it on the plastic cover of the pump assembly. It's a good reminder to lock the jack up in place before you drive off. BTDT.:realmad:
> 
> Fran


As a matter of fact.... While inspecting the plow a little closer after I got it home... I noticed the latch pin that hold the jack stand down was cracked in half, and just barely holding together.... Looks like the previous owner had the same issue... Luckily Basher had one in stock to send me with my new light harness..

As far as the flushing of the fluid goes (pardon my ignorance...Im a bit of a newbie)..., should I drain old fluid, then fill with "Myer Hyrda Flush"... Run the plow through some exercises for 10 minutes or so, then drain again and fill with good fluid.. ?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Flatulentvandal;1108449 said:


> should I drain old fluid, then fill with "Myer Hyrda Flush"... Run the plow through some exercises for 10 minutes or so, then drain again and fill with good fluid.. ?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

JeepTJ;1108391 said:


> I forgot to mention in my previous post: You may want to write the word JACK in bright letters across the horizontal part of the light bar. You should write it so you can read it from the cab of your truck. It wouldn't hurt to also write it on the plastic cover of the pump assembly. It's a good reminder to lock the jack up in place before you drive off. BTDT.:realmad:
> 
> Fran


Excellent advice, regardless of plow brand. I destroyed three jacks on my XV in as many seasons:realmad:


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## Flatulentvandal (Nov 19, 2008)

Update:

This afternoon I: Drained old fluid (was super clean)... Flushed with Hydraflush. Filled with good fluid.

While we had it taken apart, I pulled out the orifice fitting.. It was already bored out to 3/32!

So we decided the fluid was not the problem.

Then we adjusted the DP valve to either extreme without finding success. We also tested to see if it was stuck, not the case. 

We then traced the electrical schematic and found what we believe to be the root of the problem:

The "C" (raise) coil is being energized during both "float" and DP operation causing resistance to lowering during float, as well as fighting the DP causing the hammering....

You can actually hear the motor running backwards when float command is pressed while plow is raised... It floats very slowly (about 10 seconds top to bottom) 

We removed the contact from the "C" (raise) coil and instantly the DP worked correctly and float was fine.

Our diagnosis would then be that the control module is faulty...

How much $$ to replace the (receiver) for wireless control module?

Any suggestions for something else to check before I spend the $$$ on a new wireless control module?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Great diagnostics.:salute: The unit is controlled on the ground side. Test by putting your test light on the ground side of the coil. The red wire/ black stripe is your constantly "hot" when you touch the ground side of the coil the light should light. When you give a command the light should go out. If when sitting idle the ground side of the coil is active (providing a ground) then you could have a bad module but first check the harness carefully for cuts, pinched wires, worn coatings, etc providing a ground. If it is a case of a ground then beware the coil will be constantly drawing juice and will kill your battery if you leave it connected for too log.


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## Flatulentvandal (Nov 19, 2008)

basher;1115533 said:


> Great diagnostics.:salute: The unit is controlled on the ground side. Test by putting your test light on the ground side of the coil. The red wire/ black stripe is your constantly "hot" when you touch the ground side of the coil the light should light. When you give a command the light should go out. If when sitting idle the ground side of the coil is active (providing a ground) then you could have a bad module but first check the harness carefully for cuts, pinched wires, worn coatings, etc providing a ground. If it is a case of a ground then beware the coil will be constantly drawing juice and will kill your battery if you leave it connected for too log.


So, If I double check the tan ground wire from the "C" coil, back through the harness and do not find anything out of the ordinary... Would your next move be to replace the control module ($400)?

Also, if the "C" (raise) coil is being activated all the time, why is it not constantly trying to raise the blade?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

No 12 volt motor soliniod signial. Is it grounded all the time or only when you give the float or DP command


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## Flatulentvandal (Nov 19, 2008)

basher;1115717 said:


> No 12 volt motor soliniod signial. Is it grounded all the time or only when you give the float or DP command


Confirmed.

I just tested it again....

I believe the "C" coil is being grounded all the time. I was unable to get a "light-up" from my test light until I removed the tan (ground) contact from the "C" coil.

The other coils all behaved as you predicted.... providing a light up on the ground side, until the corresponding command was given, then the light would go out until the command stopped.

I traced the (TAN "C" coil ground wire) all the way through the harness and found nothing suspicious... All the wires are very clean....

On a side note: The "B" coil (used during float & or DP) is constantly VERY hot, almost too hot to touch with your finger. Even the contacts and thin plastic protective contact covers appear discolored, perhaps from all the heat?....

(Not sure if that is related..)


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

OK what color are your coils? are they all black? if so you need to change three of them, the center two and the one closest to the vehicle on the passengers side (B,E,F) to the blue coil, the black ones are 24 watt and you need a 16 watt coil. Guys think they are interchangable

And yes I would say you need a Module.


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## Flatulentvandal (Nov 19, 2008)

basher;1116408 said:


> OK what color are your coils? are they all black? if so you need to change three of them, the center two and the one closest to the vehicle on the passengers side (B,E,F) to the blue coil, the black ones are 24 watt and you need a 16 watt coil. Guys think they are interchangable
> 
> And yes I would say you need a Module.


Basher,

My coils are Red in color.

In my service parts manual (97100740G) the coils are all listed as the same p/n (96105274)... However, the 'cartridges' are segregated as you mentioned...

I will check to see that the cartridges are all as they should be.... Could that be a cause of the excessive heat on the DP coil?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Never had problems with the red ones as a group but you could have a failing coil, how many amps does it draw? You could also check the functioning of that valve. If the coil is working harder then intended it will draw a lot more power. It is normal for them to get warm but not hot.


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## Flatulentvandal (Nov 19, 2008)

When swapping control modules from another plow into mine to test this problem, is the Coil type of any significance? Do they need to match?

Do I need to worry about harming the borrowed module I'll be testing my system with?

The coil that is heating up is the "B" coil... Responsible for Down pressue and Float... Suppose it is heating up because of the constant resistance from this rogue "C" Raise coil constantly fighting it?

I read in another, older thread, you mentioned that if the coils are acting up, they can cause a control module to go bad... Should I have my coils checked to be sure they are drawing the correct amperage.. ect? The last thing I need is to replace this costly module and have it fail again.....

Thanks for all your help basher..


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Yes failing/failed coils can eat a module. You can check them for load, continuity and resistance.


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## Flatulentvandal (Nov 19, 2008)

Resolved! 

I took the plow to a local snoway dealer (EM&J rental St. Charles, IL)... He popped in a new wireless control module (96107734) et voila! Worked as it should... The plow is now in fine working order. 
I highly recommend this dealer.. They were more than fair with the price.. Very knowledgeable.

One last question: the control module he pulled off my plow had the following Snoway part # (96105166)... Not the number listed in the manuals I have for the ST... Could the module be ok and just have been being used in the wrong application? Or should I assume that because it was causing my plow to malfunction, that it should be scrapped? Does anyone recycle these things? does it have any value?

Thanks to everyone for your help! Much appreciated.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Excellent, it is good to be known at the local dealer.


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