# Ma medical cards



## mpgall26 (Aug 19, 2011)

Realizing this is not an uncommon question here, does anyone driving a 1 ton in Ma get (or really need) a medical card. I have 3/4 ton and today registered a new 3500. First time a registry person advised me unsolicted to get commerial inspection (old owner has a regular passenger inspection on it from last year)
Between DOT# and medical card there is no crystal clear info and I don't get how I'm liable yet nobody at RMV can answer any questions other than inspection sticker, if they don't know then what the hell.
I found this which looks pretty clear, I hope i'm wrong. How the hell do I get a guy to drive with a medical card requirement? A good driver is hard to find without one.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

mpgall26;1477367 said:


> Realizing this is not an uncommon question here, does anyone driving a 1 ton in Ma get (or really need) a medical card. I have 3/4 ton and today registered a new 3500. First time a registry person advised me unsolicted to get commerial inspection (old owner has a regular passenger inspection on it from last year)
> Between DOT# and medical card there is no crystal clear info and I don't get how I'm liable yet nobody at RMV can answer any questions other than inspection sticker, if they don't know then what the hell.
> I found this which looks pretty clear, I hope i'm wrong. How the hell do I get a guy to drive with a medical card requirement? A good driver is hard to find without one.


I would go to the Ma. DOT website or speak to a SUPERVISOR at DOT.I don't think you need one as FMCSA regs have you needing one at 26,001 lbs. registered weight which is what most, if not all states go by.Ma.might be different,not sure.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

My buddy owns a landscaping business in MA and runs F350's and F450's. He has a med card.


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

I have nears in NY (Where I live), you need one if DOT # us on truck, I haven't bothered but luckily haven't been through a DOT checkpoint to be" told" either, for sure then I would go get one before my appointment to discuss it with the DA. It's tough to get straight answers with regards to the DOT regs & the smaller trucks, anything over 26K is easy, it's the "newer" regulations.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Anything commercial over 10,000 GVW requires a Medical card.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

basher;1477383 said:


> Anything commercial over 10,000 GVW requires a Medical card.


My bad.Sorry,as Basher is correct.However,not complaining,but I have no idea why I have never been asked to produce mine and as an excavator who hauls heavy loads and routinely gets the luxury of non lubed inspections,it just makes no sense.


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

Could be worse. Here in RI, we now have to take time out of work to present our new med cert at the DMV. Every 2 years, or have your lic pulled.


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## winged1dur (Feb 12, 2006)

Over 10,000 lbs. you need a medical card, as Basher said. If you go out of state you will need a DOT # and travel log. From my experience even state troopers in both MA and NH don't know the specific regulations like these but the State police "truck teams" do and go out of their way looking for violators.


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

I hadn't heard of the Nh. state troopers out busting anyone , but stay away from the Rt 1A & Rt 140 area of Wrentham . ( or any place Chin hangs out )
Bandit
It is All in the Interpretation of the Officer Stopping You .
Ex. A ladder rack on a pick-up ? Thats Commercial Use , needs commercial plates .
A 10,000 # trailer built with Two 7500 # Heavy Duty axles ? that should be Registered for 14,000 # ( impounded for avoiding Fees ) ETC. ( Chin Again )
A Dually ? There over 10,001 , In Mass. You need Commercial plates Now ( along with the $ 129 Commercial Inspection and all it's requirements )
Directly from the Horses ?
http://transportation.blog.state.ma...commercial-drivers-medical-certification.html
And as usual State and Municipal Employees are EXEMPT
http://www.mass.gov/rmv/roadtests/documents/T21173.pdf
And an Insurance Company Defines Mass. Definition of the Law
http://sullivanif.com/index.aspx?sid=31485&tp=0&cd=1000&mid=131211&ds=MA-DOT-changes-business


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Requirements by state

http://www.aamva.org/aamva/DocumentDisplay.aspx?id={687D99D3-FFB5-4B76-BD6F-F5EF54728BE0


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## tuna (Nov 2, 2002)

winged1dur;1477524 said:


> Over 10,000 lbs. you need a medical card, as Basher said. If you go out of state you will need a DOT # and travel log. From my experience even state troopers in both MA and NH don't know the specific regulations like these but the State police "truck teams" do and go out of their way looking for violators.


At least you don`t have Sgt. McGonnell in Lynnfield anymore,he was a *****.


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

Hate to be the spoil sport, but it's not interpretation, it's knowing and enforcing the law. Chin isn't the only one.
If the truck weighs GVWR over 10K, it is required by law in MA to be commercially registered - period. That means Duellys are commercial registrations - one reason I ultimately decided to get rid of my dump.
Driving a vehicle registered commercially you need a med card - period.

Hauling a race car back from Epping that you were just running - there is price money involved and by definition and law that is a commercial endevour (money involved - racing with no prize money involved is different) and thus you need to have the tow vehicle registered commercially, and if the combination weighs in excess of 26K, you need a class A commercial license.

Hate when guys blame the cops for enforcing the law - can they be selective, yes at times. It's still your responsibility to know and follow the law. Just cause you don't think it's right that you have to, or that cop A doesn't seem to bust people for it as much as cop B doesn't change the fact that the law is the law. If you don't like the law, contact your elected officials and try working to get the law changed - that's what they are there for.

Trailers weighing over a certain amount (10K again I think) re required to have a DOT inspection annually also as of a couple years back.


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## winged1dur (Feb 12, 2006)

tuna;1478046 said:


> At least you don`t have Sgt. McGonnell in Lynnfield anymore,he was a *****.


You got that right!


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

Every state seems to have at least one over zealous officer. We had one here( Rhode Island) who took to writing tickets for empty windshield washer jugs (over $100) or non existent oil leaks when he couldn't find any legit problems. Yes I know washer fluid res should be full, but to write someone up for that on the first offense is over the line in my opinion.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Bandit;1477557 said:


> A 10,000 # trailer built with Two 7500 # Heavy Duty axles ? that should be Registered for 14,000 # ( impounded for avoiding Fees ) ETC.


The axle tubes alone do not signify the capacity of the axle. That is determined by the capacity of the axle assembly. 3" diameter axles can be rated as high as 7K with the proper springs/bearings/hubs/brakes/wheels/tires. So while the band may list the axle beam as a 7K capacity in fact the assembly could be rated at 5K.

I would not argue with the ticketing officer, that would just invite abuse. I would contest it in court if it was they were in fact 5K rated assemblies and the trailers MSO information an/or serial plate listed it at 10K from the manufacturer.

Oh, wouldn't that be 15K?


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## truckitup (Aug 21, 2011)

State DOT laws will over ride FMC laws if they are stricter. You 1st need to define if your vehicle is, defined as a commercial vehicle, if it is you need a DOT medical card, and a CDL. In state or out of state. We all do this for money so you would fall under the FMC laws. Most states use the FMC as a guide. Not to say the do not have there own laws, that you must go by. If you stay in state you would fall under Interstate, if you go out of state you fall under intrastate regulations.

FMC 383.91 Vehicle Groups and endorsements.

Combination vehicle (group A)

Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating of (26001) or more provided the GVWR of the vehicle being towed is in excess of (10,000) pounds. You need a CDL A with a medical card. So if you have a F550 with a GVWR of 16,000 LBS and a trailer with a loader on it over 10,000 you will need a CDL A. with a 5x10 trailer weighing 5,000 pounds you do not need a CDL or Card.

Heavy Straight vehicle. (Group b)

Any single vehicle with a GVWR of more then (26,001) pounds or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of (10,000) pounds GVWR.

This would be your big dump trucks, with salters. CDL class B. Hook anything to it and you will need a CDL class A Both will need a medical card.

Small Vehicle group (Group C)

Any single vehicle or Combination or vehicles that meet neither the definition of Group A nor B. But neither is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver or is used in the transport of materials to be Hazardous.
So you just need to make sure your Combination GVWR is under (26,001) pounds or the driver needs a CDL A and a Medical card. If you have a F350 with a GVWR of 10,000 and the trailer GVWR is 9,999 lbs you do not need a CDL or a medical card. The GVWR of the truck and trailer will determine weather you need a CDL or medical card.

I have my CDL class A so I always have to have my medical card up to date. driving anything to include my car. Yes my car, we are on a new DOT system called CSA 2010 where you (the driver) and you (the company) are on a point system. If I get pulled over in my 2500 HD and the trooper will see that have a CDL he can ask for my Medical card, if it is out of date he can give me a ticket for that. That will go on the new system. When you get pulled over on a DOT stop and they give you tickets that also will go on you company's CSA score, too many points and you will get a letter to tell you they may come audit you $$$$$. So be safe out there if you vehicle falls under the Commercial Vehicle make sure you the driver has the correct CDL and medical card.

Any Questions please let me know. I was a Transportation Manager for over 15 years ran over 100 tractors and 2,000 trailers and have been tough it all, from training to audits to driver qualifications and all record keeping, to include logs. My email is [email protected] Have a safe day.


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

Interstate- between 2 or more states. Intrastate- operating in home state only.


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## PlowboyVT (Jan 4, 2009)

Vermont doesn't have a commercial plate or reg.. So, my ? is, do I need dot number's and a medical card to bring my f-350 dump (13000gvw} and trailer (12000gvw) into Mass? I am cutting some trees for a good friend and would like to bring my tractor with forks and winch. No $ involved except some $ for fuel. The truck is reg. to me, not a business, but my insurance card is commercial for plowing here.


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

PlowboyVT;1478231 said:


> Vermont doesn't have a commercial plate or reg.. So, my ? is, do I need dot number's and a medical card to bring my f-350 dump (13000gvw} and trailer (12000gvw) into Mass? I am cutting some trees for a good friend and would like to bring my tractor with forks and winch. No $ involved except some $ for fuel. The truck is reg. to me, not a business, but my insurance card is commercial for plowing here.


 I would say No , because it should be based on the state of registration .
Ex.
Here in Mass. if I buy a 10,500 # GVW Dumping Trailer ,to tow behind My P/U , I need a Class 1 ( A ) Lic. to drive it .
If I register the Truck in Nh. and the trailer in Me. 
You can drive all over the country for Me ( Even in Mass.) with a class 3 ( C ) Lic. as Long as You don't go Over 26,000 # Total . ussmileyflag
Bandit


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

" Trailers weighing over a certain amount (10K again I think) re required to have a DOT inspection annually also as of a couple years back. "

(d) A single, full or semi-trailer, used in commerce, with a manufacturer's gross vehicle 
weight rating over 3,000 lbs; or

Taken From Here
http://www.mass.gov/rmv/inspect/commercial_regs.pdf
Bandit


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

" Oh, wouldn't that be 15K? "
Were Talking about Chin Here .


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

" Hauling a race car back from Epping that you were just running - there is price money involved and by definition and law that is a commercial endevour (money involved - racing with no prize money involved is different) and thus you need to have the tow vehicle registered commercially .

Thus the reason both of My trailers are moving to Maine for $ 54.00 Each for 2 yrs. 
http://staabagency.com/price-list
It also includes our mail forwarding service.
Bandit
Ps
To clear things up , they are 3,000 # and 9,000 # and registered to My DBA , thus the Commercial Status .


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

" Hauling a race car back from Epping that you were just running - there is price money involved and by definition and law that is a commercial endevour (money involved - racing with no prize money involved is different) and thus you need to have the tow vehicle registered commercially, and if the combination weighs in excess of 26K, you need a class A commercial license. "

I haven't seen Too Many Class A RV's Towing Car Trailers with Commercial Plates on them ?
Some 5th wheel car trailers even have a bunk in the front .
Bandit


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

truckitup;1478197 said:


> State DOT laws will over ride FMC laws if they are stricter. You 1st need to define if your vehicle is, defined as a commercial vehicle, if it is you need a DOT medical card, and a CDL. In state or out of state. We all do this for money so you would fall under the FMC laws. Most states use the FMC as a guide. Not to say the do not have there own laws, that you must go by. If you stay in state you would fall under Interstate, if you go out of state you fall under intrastate regulations.
> 
> FMC 383.91 Vehicle Groups and endorsements.
> 
> ...


Strange that since this CSA 2010 was implemented in 2010 and I have had some overweight warnings and citations,among other things,NOTHING regarding this program was ever verbally or in writing told to me.This leads me to believe that either this new gig is really earmarked for large fleets and/or is just one more BS program to scare companies to sign on to be compliant.Anyway you slice it,once again,it's all about REVENUE SHARING!!!!! I would just like to know where and when does the sharing part kick in???


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

Taken From a Ford Forum
" Have any of you been caught in the Massachusetts commercial registration vise that I have encountered? It seems that even though they recognize F250 and F350 pickups as elegible for non-commercial registration, if you have a dually, you have no choice. MA has a one sentence clause in their rules, 540CMR2.05-3(b) which states "Any vehicle which has five or more wheels on the ground" must be registered as commercial. This after they excludes campers, motor homes, and a whole list of other things, making it targeted specifically at dual rear wheel pickups. "


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

The Actual Law
Ma. General Rules 540CMR2.05
" The 10,000 inspection rule is not in the MA General Laws. It's buried in the new inspection contract the state let out to a third party to manage. 

From MA General Rules 540CMR2.05...

Commercial Vehicle, is any motor vehicle which is not a private passenger motor vehicle, antique motor car, motorcycle, trailer, semi-trailer, auto home, house trailer, taxicab, ambulance, hearse, livery vehicle, bus, school bus, or school pupil transport vehicle, including the following: 
(a) Any vehicle which has a vehicle weight, or curb weight, of more than six thousand pounds, as per the manufacturer's description of said vehicle, unless such vehicle is a sport utility vehicle or passenger van, or a pickup truck or cargo van meeting the definition of private passenger vehicle; 
(b) Any vehicle which has five or more wheels on the ground; 
(c) Any pickup truck or cargo van, owned by a partnership, trust or corporation unless such vehicle meets the definition of private passenger motor vehicle; 
(d) Any pickup truck or cargo van, if on the bed of the vehicle tools, supplies, materials or equipment are transported to or from a job site, or are stored for use at a job site, provided that transportation to or storage for use at a personal project for which no compensation is received shall not be considered in connection with a "job site"; 
(e) Any vehicle, if on the roof or sides of the vehicle, tools, supplies, materials or equipment are transported to or from a job site, or are stored for use at a job site, provided that transportation to or storage for use at a personal project for which no compensation is received shall not be deemed in connection with a "job site"; 

Private Passenger Motor Vehicle, is any vehicle: 
(a) which has a vehicle weight rating or curb weight of six thousand pounds or less as per manufacturer's description of said vehicle or is a sport utility vehicle or passenger van; or which is a pickup truck or cargo van of the 1/2 TON, 3/4 TON or 1 TON class as per manufacturer's description of said vehicle; or which is a vehicle used solely for official business by any college or university police department whose officers are appointed as special police officers by the colonel of the state police under M.G.L. c. 22C, § 63; and, 
(b) which, if a pickup truck or cargo van, is registered or leased to an individual, and is used exclusively for personal, recreational, or commuting purposes; and, 
(c) which is not described in elsewhere in 540 CMR 2.05 

As you can see, there is some ambiguity. 6,000 pounds is the real commerical threshold, not 10,000. All pickups up to the 1 ton class are excluded from commercial provided they meet the other parts of the rules. The actually application of the "5 or more wheels" part of the rule seems to be up to interpretation and what they intend. 

The essence of my complaint is that they already exclude 1 Ton pickups and they exclude 6+ wheel campers and other vehicles, why not allow all pickups to meet the non-commercial class as long as they are for true non-commercial use?


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Bandit;1478801 said:


> The Actual Law
> Ma. General Rules 540CMR2.05
> " The 10,000 inspection rule is not in the MA General Laws. It's buried in the new inspection contract the state let out to a third party to manage.
> 
> ...


WOW--that's some pretty interesting legalese there for sure.Sounds like a gaggle of fancy shmancy Bostonian legal eagles got together over some clam chowder one day to figure out how to keep larger pickups off their precious scenic parkways.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

justme-;1478079 said:


> Driving a vehicle registered commercially you need a med card - period.
> 
> .


According to what?

Just because it is registered commercial doesn't make it a CMV in the eyes of the FMCSR.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Bandit;1478661 said:


> Here in Mass. if I buy a 10,500 # GVW Dumping Trailer ,to tow behind My P/U , I need a Class 1 ( A ) Lic. to drive it


In order for a 10.5k GVWR trailer to need class A the PU would have to have a GVWR north of 15,500.


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

cretebaby;1478877 said:


> In order for a 10.5k GVWR trailer to need class A the PU would have to have a GVWR north of 15,500.


 I wish that was true here in Mass. 
Here in Mass . ( Mass. Law NOT Federal law )
And the state is making a killing on the Fines they are collecting .
According to my MASS CDL book,
The only license class that allows towing a vehicle over 10,001# is a class A.

Class B and C both specify a towed vehicle UNDER 10,000.
Taken from Our Sister Site
http://www.lawnsite.com/archive/index.php/t-73460.html


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

A post taken from another forum

"Re: Interstate DOT Question
By: SMITTY On: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:42 pm "

" If you can't move, the next best thing is: www.staabagency.com -- you'll receive a ME reg in your name at a ME P.O. Box.
I registered both my trailers for 7 years for under $330 WITH sales tax. & no title was required for my 9980 GVWR trailer. "

" In MA, that would be my YEARLY rate, PLUS sales tax, PLUS title at $75!! This damn state got soo greedy with trailer registrations this past year that people are fleeing MA reg by the thousands. Can't blame them one bit. I'll never register a trailer in this state again ...... unless this state gets their collective heads out of their asses, and finally begins to realize that when you tax the ever-living *censored* out of people in a recession, you are just sending business over the border. "

SMITTY
Member

Posts: 6513
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:43 pm
Location: West-Central Mass


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

More Misc. Examples from the web about Policing For Profit , NOT Safety
http://horsetrailerworld.com/forum/...did=11941&MessageID=106663&DisplayType=nested


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

You must remember, we are talking about a combined wt rating over 26001lbs. If the combined wt is less than that, no cdl. If the truck hauling the trailer requires a cdl on it's own, then a trailer of over10,000 lbs requires a class A .


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Bandit;1478954 said:


> ,
> The only license class that allows towing a vehicle over 10,001# is a class A.


Sorry but that is just not true..

Got a link to where oyu think it says that?


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

cretebaby;1478875 said:


> According to what?
> 
> Originally Posted by justme-
> Driving a vehicle registered commercially you need a med card - period.
> ...


Here's some clarification on this matter,but I think I saw something basically that said any truck over 10K lbs.whether used for intrastate or interstate use needs a driver with a medical card:
From the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA):
Medical certification in accordance with FMCSA physical qualification standards is required when the driver is operating a commercial vehicle in interstate commerce that:
Has a combined gross vehicle weight or weight rating of 10,0001 lbs. or more.
Is designed or used to transport 9-15 passengers (including the driver) for compensation.
Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) whether for compensation or not.
Transports hazardous materials in quantities that require placarding under the hazardous materials regulations.
When a driver returns from an illness or injury that interferes with driving ability, the driver must undergo a medical examination even if the medical examiner's certificate has not expired.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

tuney443;1478993 said:


> Here's some clarification on this matter,but I think I saw something basically that said any truck over 10K lbs.whether used for intrastate or interstate use needs a driver with a medical card:
> From the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA):
> Medical certification in accordance with FMCSA physical qualification standards is required when the driver is operating a commercial vehicle in interstate commerce that:
> Has a combined gross vehicle weight or weight rating of 10,0001 lbs. or more.
> ...


2 things.

a) That is for interstate commerce only. Unless the state adopted it in it's entirety.

b) Personal use is exempt from that part (390).

So I fail to see how registering a truck with a commercail plate makes it a CMV in the eyes of the FMCSR.


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

cretebaby;1478973 said:


> Sorry but that is just not true..
> 
> Got a link to where oyu think it says that?


 As a matter of fact I Do . the RMV License Manual .
Where it References that a Trailer over 10,001 # Can Only Be Towed With A CLASS A Lic., ( Not a B or C )
( This is what the DOT Officers are going by and how they Interpreting and Enforcing are the law .)
Bandit
http://www.mass.gov/rmv/license/2diflic.htm
Ps
Crete

We went over this back in Sept , 2011 . Of What those of Us in Ma and Ct. have to deal with .
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=124700
Pps
Your RV Camper Would Be Exempt , PLUS You have Out of State Plates .
A Flat Bed trailer here in Mass. only if you have a Port -A- Potty bolted to it . :laughing:

And that is only this site , do a little googling and read the fines people are getting in other forums .
( Especially with Horse and Race Car Trailers )

And a word from our fishing friends ( especially those that attend tournaments and considered fishing for profits .)
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/157446-towing-enclosed-trailer-ga-didnt-weigh.html#b

After reading that other states are doing it too , the only conclusion is that they are .
POLICING FOR PROFITS , NOT SAFETY


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Bandit;1479002 said:


> As a matter of fact I Do . the RMV License Manual .
> Where it References that a Trailer over 10,001 # Can Only Be Towed With A CLASS A Lic., ( Not a B or C )


Nowhere in that link does it say that a class A is needed just because the trailer is over 10k

Trailer alone over 10k doesn't meet the definition of a class A so a class D will do.[/quote]



> Class D- Any single passenger vehicle or combination, except a semi-trailer unit, truck-trailer combination, tractor, or truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 26,000 lbs., bus or school bus


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

cretebaby;1478999 said:


> 2 things.
> 
> a) That is for interstate commerce only. Unless the state adopted it in it's entirety.
> 
> ...


Yeah,you're right,registering it commercially does not necessarily mean it's a CMV in the eyes of FMCSA.


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

cretebaby;1479006 said:


> Nowhere in that link does it say that a class A is needed just because the trailer is over 10k
> Trailer alone over 10k doesn't meet the definition of a class A so a class D will do.


[/QUOTE]
http://www.mass.gov/rmv/license/2diflic.htm
According to the Mass. DOT , the ONLY Class of Lic. that mentions Towing a trailer over 10,001 # is a Class A . ( Therefor You Need a Class A to Tow One Over 10,001 # )
Class A- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. (Holders of a Class A license may, with any appropriate endorsements, operate all vehicles within Classes B, C, and D).
Class B ( Allows for Towing any Vehicle Not in Excess of 10,001 # )
Class B- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR

Remember a State can Make and Enforce Laws Stronger then the Federal DOT Laws , but they Can Not make Weaker Laws .
Mass. and Ct made there own laws .
http://www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/msp/phone-listings.html
Commercial Driver Licensing (CDL)	(617) 351-9072
Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement Section	(978) 369-1004

Think About What is said by not saying anything .
Ex.
Mr Brown , Yes or No Answer only please , 
Have You stopped Beating Your Wife ?


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## PlowboyVT (Jan 4, 2009)

This is what I was told by a Vermont DOT officer as he was handing me my ticket for operating a com. vehicle without a CDL A because I had a 14K trailer behind my F-650.

The combo of truck and trailer gross vehicle rating can not be over 26K if the trailer rating is over 10K.

Ex. 1: F-650 26K rating, trailer at 14K = 40K. you need a CDL A

2: F-650 26K rating, trailer at 10K = 26K. the trailer is exempt, you do not need a CDL A or B and no med card

3: F-350 13K rating, trailer at 13K = 26K. you do not need a CDL A or B and no med card


IMO, Mass. and some of you are interpreting the law wrong.

Plowboy


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/license/2diflic.htm
According to the Mass. DOT , the ONLY Class of Lic. that mentions Towing a trailer over 10,001 # is a Class A . ( Therefor You Need a Class A to Tow One Over 10,001 # )
Class A- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. (Holders of a Class A license may, with any appropriate endorsements, operate all vehicles within Classes B, C, and D).
Class B ( Allows for Towing any Vehicle Not in Excess of 10,001 # )
Class B- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR

Remember a State can Make and Enforce Laws Stronger then the Federal DOT Laws , but they Can Not make Weaker Laws .
Mass. and Ct made there own laws .
http://www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/msp/phone-listings.html
Commercial Driver Licensing (CDL)	(617) 351-9072
Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement Section	(978) 369-1004

Think About What is said by not saying anything .
Ex.
Mr Brown , Yes or No Answer only please , 
Have You stopped Beating Your Wife ?[/QUOTE]

Look more carefully at the description of a Class D--it does indeed allow a driver to pull a 10K lb.+ trailer as long as the GVWR doesn't exceed 26K lbs. It describes a passenger vehicle which for example let's use a Chevy 2500HD crew cab with a 9200 lb. GVWR. Now take as the heaviest equipment trailer to get in under the threshold-a 8 tonner. So now you have a 16K lb GVWR trailer being pulled by a 9200 lb.horse= 25,200 lb combination.All legal according to that description.


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

I know what Everyone is saying about the FMCA and DOT , But that Is Not How the ( Broke ) State of Confusion is Defining it , and impounding vehicles for Driving without a CDL with any trailer over 10,001 and NO Class A .
Even a 3/4 ton p/u with a class B will get you towed and charged . 
Call the State , I posted there #'s above
I agree it is dumb 
But NOT a good idea to argue with DOT Officer while your rig is being hooked to the tow truck , and even if you get a good lawyer and win , you still have all the towing and storage charges to pay .

IMO, Mass. and some of you are interpreting the law wrong.
They are interpreting the law to bring in the most revenue for the state's general fund period .
The same thing with all dually's and any vehicle over 10,000 is now a commercial vehicle with all the dot rules ( make sure the wife and daughter have there medical cards )


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

More Mass. Manure 
Being from mass here we go,...
In mass any vehicle in excess of 10,000 lbs is now commercial, period.
I sold my f350 and bought an 10,000 f250 to get around it.
At 10,001 lbs it becomes, commercial.
Dual rear wheels regardless of weight, commercial.
So if you take off the duals and run single they get you on the weight rule.
Below the 10,000 lbs you can register a pickup as passenger, if, you dont have racks and boxes or are snowplowing, or are a business.
If you are a business and are over 10,000 lbs you need a health card.
They are now nailing guys with big trailers, for total combined weight, like landscapers, etc, because how many are carring the health card, none.
But as a counter point I own a 40 ft, 44,000 lb motorcoach, detroit diesel, air brakes, etc, and need no health card or special license other than to drive a passenger car.

Oh, and one other tidbit of info on mass.
It was about a year ago you could go anywhere with pretty much anything to get an inspection sticker,...
Now under 10,000 lbs is $29.99, over 10,000 lbs is $129.00. ( Also All trailers like mine over 3,000 # also get the $ 129.00 Sticker )
Diesel as well as vehicles over 10,000 lbs has to be done at commercial inspection station, and is about the same as a DOT inspection.
They dont give you a DOT sticker but you must meet all the requirements,
such as, 2 wheel chocks, 3 road reflector triangles, first aid kit, fire extinguisher, etc. ( Evan on a Trailer )
The above taken from
http://www.ford-trucks.com ( All 11 Pages of it )
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/912881-commercial-vs-non-com-registrations-in-ma.html


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Bandit;1479053 said:


> According to the Mass. DOT , the ONLY Class of Lic. that mentions Towing a trailer over 10,001 # is a Class A . ( Therefor You Need a Class A to Tow One Over 10,001 # )
> Class A- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. (Holders of a Class A license may, with any appropriate endorsements, operate all vehicles within Classes B, C, and D).
> Class B ( Allows for Towing any Vehicle Not in Excess of 10,001 # )
> Class B- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR


Using your reasoning you need a class B to tow any trailer 10k or under.

Do you need a class B to tow a trailer under 10k?



> Remember a State can Make and Enforce Laws Stronger then the Federal DOT Laws , but they Can Not make Weaker Laws .
> Mass. and Ct made there own laws .


But the didn't here. MA and CT both have the some CDL requirements as the federal standard.



> Think About What is said by not saying anything


.

To that I say try reading it for what it actually says and not for what you already think it says.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

PlowboyVT;1479069 said:


> This is what I was told by a Vermont DOT officer as he was handing me my ticket for operating a com. vehicle without a CDL A because I had a 14K trailer behind my F-650.
> 
> The combo of truck and trailer gross vehicle rating can not be over 26K if the trailer rating is over 10K.
> 
> ...


Bingo.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

PlowboyVT;1479069 said:


> This is what I was told by a Vermont DOT officer as he was handing me my ticket for operating a com. vehicle without a CDL A because I had a 14K trailer behind my F-650.
> 
> The combo of truck and trailer gross vehicle rating can not be over 26K if the trailer rating is over 10K.
> 
> ...


Right on all points EXCEPT on #'s 2+3 about the medical card--IF you're crossing state lines [interstate],you do need that medical card if it's for commerce.What is considered commerce can be very subjective by different DOT cops so I think it's best to just get it.Not really a big deal at all.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Remember that under 26,000 it's a non-certified Medical card. As Tuney443 said it's simple and the most it will cost you is a co-pay.

You just download the form, http://www.dmv.de.gov/forms/driver_...dicalCertificationExamForms(DOT Physical).pdf 
you and your doctor fill it out. Your Doctor stores it in your file (get yourself a copy) and you deal with the card if you want more then the form you print out of your computer. The law allows you to copy and reduce the actual "card" if you reduce copy @ 70% then again @ 50% it will fit in to your wallet after you laminate it.

If you think more is required check the self-certifacation, if you need to mail the sucker in and you're done for two years.

http://www.dmv.de.gov/forms/driver_...dCert/MedCertAffidavitSelfCertCatSelGuide.pdf

These are the federal forms.

IMO everyone with a drivers license will need a Med card in the near (5/8years) future as the feds/insurance lobby make an effort to stop accidents caused by elderly and psychical ailments/medications that may impair driving ability.


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## ratherbfishin (Aug 1, 2011)

I had to go through all that BS to renew my hydraulic/hoisting license here in MA. Beyond the regular physical, they check the eyes,hearing,pee-pee,etc.Another way for them to steal some more $$$ from us.I am a building contractor here;you should see the hoops you have to jump through...the licenses you need to pull a permit in this state nowadays!


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

ratherbfishin;1479160 said:


> I had to go through all that BS to renew my hydraulic/hoisting license here in MA. Beyond the regular physical, they check the eyes,hearing,pee-pee,etc.Another way for them to steal some more $$$ from us.I am a building contractor here;you should see the hoops you have to jump through...the licenses you need to pull a permit in this state nowadays!


 Do You mean like a Ditch Permit for ANY Hole over 24 In. even those Dug By Hand ? 
Plus , Don't Forget to Notify Dig Safe .
I am supposed to when setting up a tent , but I don't use long stakes , ( They take more work to drive in ) 
Ex. The Town of Walpole , Mass. ( Trench Regulations and Fee's )
http://www.walpole-ma.gov/TrenchRegs.htm
Bandit
Ps
The members here from other states have know idea of the crap we have to deal with ever day , just trying to do our jobs .
Pps
Don't forget the License and Training to Rent a BobCat from Your Local Taylor Rental here in Taxachusettes .
One question about the hydraulic license - what do rental stores do when a homeowner wants to rent a bobcat? Do they have to have a license?
The rental stores give a "temporary" license good for a few days and a little training on the basics of the equipment.
1.) If you are a homeowner and want to rent equipment to use on YOUR privately owned land the rental place is required to train you on all equipment being rented and give you a 2 week temp. license. If you leave your property you need a hydraulics license.
2.) If you own equipment that you use off of your own property, you need a license to operate no matter what. Even if there is a foreman with a license on the job, if you are behind the controlls in MA, you need a license.

In Mass. its 75.00 for the test 8.00 for passport picture 75.00 for d.o.t phyical all of the above has to be mailed to d.p.s in boston if you get caugth operating without a lic first offence 1000.00 fine second fine and jail

Bandit
Ps
Please don't ask Me to find the actual law to quote ,it's too confusing like everything else this state does .


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

cretebaby;1479111 said:


> Do you need a class B to tow a trailer under 10k?


So.........What say you, Bandit?


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Bandit;1479216 said:


> Do You mean like a Ditch Permit for ANY Hole over 24 In. even those Dug By Hand ?
> Plus , Don't Forget to Notify Dig Safe .
> I am supposed to when setting up a tent , but I don't use long stakes , ( They take more work to drive in )
> Ex. The Town of Walpole , Mass. ( Trench Regulations and Fee's )
> ...


So I guess the ''boys'' don't do too much whacking in the great state of MA because regarding the trench permit -''Please describe the exact location of the proposed trench and its purpose (include a description of what is (or is intended) to be laid in proposed trench (eg; pipes/cable lines etc..'' You think it would get processed by Mrs.Peanose if ''BODY'' was entered????:laughing:

Seriously---being the rebel I am,I can not deal with STUPID crap like that--I would never do any excavating there for sure and if I have to again in the future drive into MA with my big truck,I'll only do it when my permit allows,which is usually 4PM--7 AM.


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

" Class B ( Allows for Towing any Vehicle Not in Excess of 10,001 # )
Class B- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR
Using your reasoning you need a class B to tow any trailer 10k or under.
Do you need a class B to tow a trailer under 10k? "

This is a copy of the CDL License manual , Version 2.0 ( 2004 ) it is the newest on line version

Class A
Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 
26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of 
the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 
10,000 pounds. (Holders of a Class A license 
may, with any appropriate endorsements, 
operate all vehicles within Classes B, C, and D).

Class B
Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or 
more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a 
vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR. 
(Holders of a Class B license may, with any 
appropriate endorsements, operate all vehicles 
within Classes B, C, and D)

Class C
Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, 
that does not meet the definition of Class A or 
Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 
or more passengers, including the driver, or is 
placarded for hazardous materials. (Holders of a 
Class C license may, with any appropriate 
endorsements, operate all vehicles within 
Classes C and D.).

Might as well through the Class D License in the mix too 
lass D- Any single passenger vehicle or combination, except a semi-trailer unit, truck-trailer combination, tractor, or truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 26,000 lbs., bus or school bus.

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/cdlmanual/CDL_Manual_Intro.pdf

No I do not believe You need a Class B to pull a trailer under 10,000 # , just don't go over 10,001 # .
It is Not My understanding of our crazy laws here that count , it the Officer that has pulled You over that count's .
Along with the Judge and Your Lawyer .

Crete
This has been argued both here and our sister site since 2004 .
The DOT rules are a pain to get a straight answer for. Put 2 DOT officers on the side of the road and ask them the same question and you will get 2 different answers even though they both looked it up and read it from the same page from the same book.

In a couple of cases , people have been given conflicting answers by two different DOT officers . ( Ex. Below )
Posters in different states have Very Different experences and rules to live under .
http://www.lawnsite.com/archive/index.php/t-73460.html
Another Interesting and confusing article regarding 10,001 # and the FMCSA .
http://www.worktruckonline.com/Chan...T-Mandates-May-Apply-When-Using-Trailers.aspx

Ps
Now that we have beaten Mass. and Ct. to death , can we move on the Califunnia 
In California, you need a Class A license to tow a "trailer" that is 10,001 pounds or greater (GVWR). There are two categories of Class A licenses in Calif. (Commercial and Non-Commercial). Either of the two categories will allow one to legally tow a "trailer" that has the GVWR mentioned above. The standard "Class C" license that everyone has for driving the basis truck allows one to tow "trailers" with GVWR of 10,000 or less. (Note: in CA, for 5th wheels you can tow up to a 15K GVWR with a normal "Class C" license, but you need an endorsement once your above the 10K pound limit).
From the License Manual
Class A Non-commercial<o></o>
You may drive any of the vehicles under Class C. 
You may tow travel trailers weighing over 10,000 lbs. GVWR or 5th wheel travel trailers weighing over 15,000 lbs. GVWR when the trailers are not used for hire (pay or other compensation). Study material for this class of license is contained in the Recreational Vehicles and Trailers booklet.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Bandit;1479449 said:


> " Class B ( Allows for Towing any Vehicle Not in Excess of 10,001 # )
> Class B- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR
> Using your reasoning you need a class B to tow any trailer 10k or under.
> Do you need a class B to tow a trailer under 10k? "
> ...


Do you see how your reasoning says that you need a class B for railer 10k or under?



> or any such vehicle towing a
> vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

cretebaby;1479455 said:


> Do you see how your reasoning says that you need a class B for railer 10k or under?


Shhhhh

Lets NOT Give Them Any Ideas . payup
As I am Sure they Know How to use a Computer too.


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## deeges909 (Dec 13, 2006)

tuney443;1477372 said:


> I would go to the Ma. DOT website or speak to a SUPERVISOR at DOT.I don't think you need one as FMCSA regs have you needing one at 26,001 lbs. registered weight which is what most, if not all states go by.Ma.might be different,not sure.


I received a $125 ticket from the ******* dot statue in Andover for driving an f350 w dump body! Guy targets f350/450's knowing dam well not a
Lot of guys get a message card to drive a pickup truck


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

I Rest My Case


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