# Now I remember why I stopped doing driveways



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

They suck!


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

I had to plow some condo driveways Christmas morning, I wanted to hop out and run myself over with the truck the entire time. Unless there's several inches I don't even plow my own driveway.


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

The driveways or the people who own them?


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## 2006Sierra1500 (Dec 28, 2011)

All I do is driveways....its not the driveways, its the customers. Trust me.


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

All my contracts are resis too.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

2006Sierra1500;1697557 said:


> All I do is driveways....its not the driveways, its the customers. Trust me.


Thumbs Up


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

grandview;1697570 said:


> Thumbs Up


Did resi last year, glad I`m not now.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

I hate residential. I only keep the ones I've had forever... not taking new ones.


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## Glenn Lawn Care (Sep 28, 2009)

I don't mind doing driveways, there easy money. The only time I have to deal with the customer is if they come out when they don't think there is enough snow for me to be there.


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## bowtie_guy (Jan 1, 2004)

yup, very picky on the driveways I do. I do a total of 4 including mine. Lots of room to pile snow and not many obstacles are a requirement.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

I have one particular driveway customer who will insist I not plow if it's anything under 5". And it don't matter if we get two 3" storms in a week either, he will just drive through it. As long as his jeep can go, he's not about to spend the money. Don't matter to him that I have to beat my rig a lot harder to clean it up after the next 8" storm falls on that 6"...
But if we get a 10 or 12 inch storm? He calls before the last flake is on the ground, "Where are you? Not gonna forget me are you? I have to get out soon!"

He's on a fixed income, and always makes sure to tell me, every time. But I told him I would plow and let him catch up over the spring and summer, as long as it takes him...but he didn't like that..


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

Buswell Forest;1697595 said:


> I have one particular driveway customer who will insist I not plow if it's anything under 5". And it don't matter if we get two 3" storms in a week either, he will just drive through it. As long as his jeep can go, he's not about to spend the money. Don't matter to him that I have to beat my rig a lot harder to clean it up after the next 8" storm falls on that 6"...
> But if we get a 10 or 12 inch storm? He calls before the last flake is on the ground, "Where are you? Not gonna forget me are you? I have to get out soon!"
> 
> He's on a fixed income, and always makes sure to tell me, every time. But I told him I would plow and let him catch up over the spring and summer, as long as it takes him...but he didn't like that..


I stay away from people like that Unless they are willing to pay good.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

I make more on drives than i do lots


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## Wilnip (Oct 4, 2011)

Driveways are easy money. Like Bird said, my residental trucks average a better hourly rate than my parking lots do. 
Bushwell, I'd drop him and never look back.


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## sven1277 (Jan 15, 2008)

We do both. I tend to agrees that residential is more profitable. 6-7 drives an hour at $40/ea. It's good money.


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## Bison (Dec 20, 2010)

[QUOTEI have one particular driveway customer who will insist I not plow if it's anything under 5". And it don't matter if we get two 3" storms in a week either, he will just drive through it. As long as his jeep can go, he's not about to spend the money. Don't matter to him that I have to beat my rig a lot harder to clean it up after the next 8" storm falls on that 6"...
But if we get a 10 or 12 inch storm? He calls before the last flake is on the ground, "Where are you? Not gonna forget me are you? I have to get out soon!"
He's on a fixed income, and always makes sure to tell me, every time. But I told him I would plow and let him catch up over the spring and summer, as long as it takes him...but he didn't like that..][/QUOTE]

Why do it at all ? He's going to pack snow and ice down on the easy storms and you're going to have to slip and slide and beat up your truck to save him a few dollars on the hard storms. I'll do willcall drives but they're done last and cost more to make it more appealing to be a regular.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Now that one i probably would not do. At 6 inches building up i only plow once or twice a month.

Is he shoveling so snow does not build uo, or packing it down with his jeep? He must have some disposable income if he is not shoveling

Perhaps talk to him about a $ per month flat rate.


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

Good idea bird, I thought of that too but usually customers like that in the state we live in are terrified of seasonal prices for driveways. We get the "but then if it doesn't snow I'll be wasting money!!" They can't stand the gamble of the slight possibility that we won't get any snow


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Jguck25;1697847 said:


> Good idea bird, I thought of that too but usually customers like that in the state we live in are terrified of seasonal prices for driveways. We get the "but then if it doesn't snow I'll be wasting money!!" They can't stand the gamble of the slight possibility that we won't get any snow


here it is kind of the other way around, I worry about seasonal prices in case I get a huge amount of snow. Contract limits how many events I will do if they are on a seasonal or monthly payment plan


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

I quit doing driveways a couple years ago, when we had heavy snows in the spring. Everything had already thawed. I do commercial and don't run shoes. It was a dirty mess in the driveways. No one complained, but I was not happy, and decided I'll stick with the blacktop.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Why not do paved drives?


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

Because they are few and far between here.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

I miss my driveway route in Mass.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

This guy I spoke of is a quasi-friend. He's retired, lives up the road from me, and is on a very fixed income.
It's hard for me to just drop him, there will be hurt feelings. Next time I see him, I am going to explain it to him though. In detail. I don't mind passing on a 3" storm, it's when we get 3 in a row that irks me. That and him calling me in a tizzy about needing to get out or over to his woodpile he insists on stacking 150 away from his house.


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

I like doing driveways, they are easy money and they are more of a challenge so they keep you entertained. But commercial is easier and you can make more money salting on them also. I just love plowing snow so I'll take anything.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

Its either great customer bad driveway or the other way around. I dropped driveways, too many guys plowing 20x80 drives for $20.


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## YardMedic (Nov 29, 2006)

Buswell Forest;1698167 said:


> This guy I spoke of is a quasi-friend. He's retired, lives up the road from me, and is on a very fixed income.
> It's hard for me to just drop him, there will be hurt feelings. Next time I see him, I am going to explain it to him though. In detail. I don't mind passing on a 3" storm, it's when we get 3 in a row that irks me. That and him calling me in a tizzy about needing to get out or over to his woodpile he insists on stacking 150 away from his house.


Unfortunately I think there are limits to what the customer can dictate. Maybe there's a happy medium for you two. If he's a quasi-friend, volunteer the plowings at 3" or reduce your fee a little to be able to plow & charge everything. You're right about it beating on your stuff, which is not fair to you.

To the folks here that talk about "giving up driveways".... My question is, why throw away clients you already have? At one point you worked to gain these people, and if a bunch of driveways fell into your lap, it must be from your reputation. Don't WANT to do driveways? Put an extra truck in the mix to do the $h!t you don't want to do.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

jrs.landscaping;1698951 said:


> Its either great customer bad driveway or the other way around. I dropped driveways, too many guys plowing 20x80 drives for $20.


I'm not giving up driveways, as every little bit helps. I admit they suck (sometimes, depending on who owns them), but unfortunately, here too are a plethora of guys doing the same thing. I've lost several jobs this year because of the "uninsured" coming in and working for 50% or less than what I would do it for.

Just another day in business, I guess.


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

As long as there is a standard protocol that is the same for every drive then plowing resis isnt that bad. No more than 2" trigger, doesnt have to be plowed early etc. No working around their schedule example not plowing while customer is on vacation. Also no steep drives or tight areas. There is tons of resi work availaable here so its nice to set rules. My f350 makes well over twice per hour compared to parking lots. And most drives around here are about $20/plow.


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## scott3430 (Dec 28, 2010)

I prefer commercial over resi accounts. We get an inch of snow - I know I'll have at least a few lots to clear.

The drives want at least 2" before any plowing gets done.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

YardMedic;1699035 said:


> To the folks here that talk about "giving up driveways".... My question is, why throw away clients you already have? At one point you worked to gain these people, and if a bunch of driveways fell into your lap, it must be from your reputation. Don't WANT to do driveways? Put an extra truck in the mix to do the $h!t you don't want to do.


Why would I spend the money operating another truck to do a job that is not very profitable in my area? I have zero interest in residential plowing
Compared to commercial.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

grandview;1697539 said:


> They suck!


I love driveways!

Residential and small commercial is my specialty.


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

This is only meant to give an example of the power of a well developed, tight driveway route. I plowed a 2 inch storm 2 days ago and made over $300 per hour. I also plowed my same route on an 8 inch storm and naturally it took me longer to do my route but I still made over $200 per hour. I'll take everyday and twice on Sunday!


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## scott3430 (Dec 28, 2010)

^^^^ That's very good $ per hour! payup

Do you plow your drive's with your truck? I find my driveway's are tough to do with my crew cab truck. And it isn't a long bed either - thankfully.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Glenn Lawn Care;1697580 said:


> I don't mind doing driveways, there easy money. The only time I have to deal with the customer is if they come out when they don't think there is enough snow for me to be there.


why even give them an opportunity to come out and tell you no? set up a trigger amount. thats how i have my residentials set up. and if they still come out it's a $5 fuel charge just for running out there.



Buswell Forest;1697595 said:


> I have one particular driveway customer who will insist I not plow if it's anything under 5". And it don't matter if we get two 3" storms in a week either, he will just drive through it. As long as his jeep can go, he's not about to spend the money. Don't matter to him that I have to beat my rig a lot harder to clean it up after the next 8" storm falls on that 6"...
> But if we get a 10 or 12 inch storm? He calls before the last flake is on the ground, "Where are you? Not gonna forget me are you? I have to get out soon!"
> 
> He's on a fixed income, and always makes sure to tell me, every time. But I told him I would plow and let him catch up over the spring and summer, as long as it takes him...but he didn't like that..


why work for someone like that? is it really worth the money?


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

M&M;1699185 said:


> This is only meant to give an example of the power of a well developed, tight driveway route. I plowed a 2 inch storm 2 days ago and made over $300 per hour. I also plowed my same route on an 8 inch storm and naturally it took me longer to do my route but I still made over $200 per hour. I'll take everyday and twice on Sunday!


Exactly. Tight route makes all the difference.

And after 7:30 am there's not much commercial lots to do so might as well keep plowing for 3-4 hours more with resi's.


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

We have some drives with in a few of our condo communities, we do them all with blowers. Able to back drag them out at one community...
I tell call ins we have $100 minimum and they should try Craigs list..
Regular mowing customers, i tell them to call us back a day after the event if they still need help. 
They understand i can't make a living on small 4 car driveways..


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

M&M;1699185 said:


> This is only meant to give an example of the power of a well developed, tight driveway route. I plowed a 2 inch storm 2 days ago and made over $300 per hour. I also plowed my same route on an 8 inch storm and naturally it took me longer to do my route but I still made over $200 per hour. I'll take everyday and twice on Sunday!





Landgreen;1699264 said:


> Exactly. Tight route makes all the difference.


bingo....but its hard for some guys in rural areas to understand this, because drives are bigger and more spread out....and then some just don't want to hear it because they aren't doing it themselves.

Considering we have a route where 1 skid does 100+ drives in less than 4hrs (on a 4in snow) , yes, drives are very profitable for us. But ,I personally, don't like doing them...I enjoy plowing commercial lots the most.

Theres a guy here on PS with some resi routes, that makes my 100+ drives in 4hr look weak lol.


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## Bison (Dec 20, 2010)

I do a bunch of drives . I tell everyone if the town plows I plow which is around 2 1/2". Winters seem to average 6 to 7 plowable storms here . If you let people off the hook for all the easy pushes you'd be averaging 3-4 times a season. Why even own a plow ? I just feel that I want plow customers who actually want to be plowed, not asking for favors and special treatment only during blizzards.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Bison;1699355 said:


> I tell everyone if the town plows I plow which is around 2 1/2".


LOL if I did this I would starve to death!! The town here plows when they get around to it, and on bigger storms they will often wait until it approaches a foot deep before they begin... then there are cars stuck in the middle of the streets to plow around etc. Really aggrivating.


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## CAT 245ME (Sep 10, 2006)

Landgreen;1699264 said:


> Exactly. Tight route makes all the difference.


Sometimes it's easier said than done, I see some streets here that you may have 5 driveway's being cleared by trucks, but each one is being done by someone different. Trying to convince homeowners to just go with one company is hard to do, especially with the uninsured doing the job for cheap.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

tight routes would be nice but CAT speaks the truth for multipul locations. you will see 5 driveways right in a row all being done by 5 different company's. 

if I could get a tight route I wouldn't even bother with a plow. I'd get a skid steer and just stop in the neighbor do my clients and onto the next area.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

yardguy28;1699460 said:


> tight routes would be nice but CAT speaks the truth for multipul locations. you will see 5 driveways right in a row all being done by 5 different company's.
> 
> if I could get a tight route I wouldn't even bother with a plow. I'd get a skid steer and just stop in the neighbor do my clients and onto the next area.


that would take forever


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

birddseedd;1699489 said:


> that would take forever


What would take forever?


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Bossman 92;1699556 said:


> What would take forever?


loading/unloading a skidsteer and taking twice as long on each drive


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

If you had a route with a bunch of drives close together a ss would be the only way to go.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

birddseedd;1699558 said:


> loading/unloading a skidsteer and taking twice as long on each drive


Unload and Load once, beginning and end of the route. A skid steer I bet would be twice as fast as a truck on a driveway. A tractor and blower being quicker then the skid steer.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Please explain,


a truck is twice as big (blade), all you have to do is drive forward and back a time or two


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

birddseedd;1699577 said:


> Please explain,
> 
> a truck is twice as big (blade), all you have to do is drive forward and back a time or two


You can buy bigger plows for skids too....


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Even so, they don't move any faster plowing?

at least it wasnt when i was using a skidsteer with a pusher


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

birddseedd;1699577 said:


> Please explain,
> 
> a truck is twice as big (blade), all you have to do is drive forward and back a time or two


2 speed skid steer (10-12mph). Faster direction changes. 8-10' blade (could have down pressure too for a good scrape)

By the time you pull up to the garage door, put your truck in reverse, drop the blade and back up to the street, repeat that 2-3 more time for the driveway, then push the snow up onto the edge of the lawn the skid steer is 2-3 driveways ahead of you doing a better job. The skid steer very well can have better visibility too and it's shorter. It could turn around in the driveway in a second as opposed to a multi point turn around in the road with a truck.

Edit. you were probably using an older single speed skid steer. 5-7mph at best. A medium or large frame skid, 2 spd and a 8-10' blade would be far more efficient then a truck on a tight route.


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

When did you ever use a ss with a pusher?


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

A ss is smaller and more compact than most trucks so it really shines when it comes to drives. Why do you think most hoa's are done with ss? They are very easy to maneuver too.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

xgiovannix12;1699590 said:


> When did you ever use a ss with a pusher?


i used one last year.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

What mark said Thumbs Up


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

birddseedd;1699593 said:


> i used one last year.


Using one and working with one efficiently are 2 different things Thumbs Up


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

xgiovannix12;1699608 said:


> Using one and working with one efficiently are 2 different things Thumbs Up


Exactly. Most anyone can run a skid steer. Not everyone can operate a skid steer


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

Mark13;1699612 said:


> Exactly. Most anyone can run a skid steer. Not everyone can operate a skid steer


Guy at work is learning how to drive the mini excavator and hes all cocky now that he can move it .

But I told him any 1 can move them levers but that dont mean you can work with the machine. Sadly He thinks I show off with the larger equipment meanwhile Im just doing my job


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

xgiovannix12;1699617 said:


> Guy at work is learning how to drive the mini excavator and hes all cocky now that he can move it .
> 
> But I told him any 1 can move them levers but that dont mean you can work with the machine. Sadly He thinks I show off with the larger equipment meanwhile Im just doing my job


I've never gotten to play with an excavator, it's on my list of things to learn how to efficiently use (not operate, I don't see myself needing to be that good in one)

I've got quite a bit of seat time in various skid steers/ctl's with all different control patterns. I'm better in some then others but it's nice being able to run most anything.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

birddseedd;1699577 said:


> Please explain,
> 
> a truck is twice as big (blade), all you have to do is drive forward and back a time or two


i was gonna respond but i see no need as most have already hit the points i would have made.

i'm talking routes that have at least 5 driveways, at least 5 so close together you are unloading the skid once, knocking out the driveways and then loading it back up.

and as already said, by the time you pull up the drive, drop the blade, pull back out and do that a few times, plus move your pile into the grass the skid steer is 2 to 3 driveways down.

skid steers move fast, have down pressure and can be fitted with a larger blade/bucket. i actually think there compact size is an advantage as well.

but again, i'm talking about multiple driveways. you'd probably need more than 5 like i said above to make it worth it. i don't know i've never done it. but i know if the situation was right and i had enough driveways in one neighborhood and could get a few neighborhoods like that i'd forget a blade altogether.


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

Mark13;1699622 said:


> I've never gotten to play with an excavator, it's on my list of things to learn how to efficiently use (not operate, I don't see myself needing to be that good in one)
> 
> I've got quite a bit of seat time in various skid steers/ctl's with all different control patterns. I'm better in some then others but it's nice being able to run most anything.


you can do a lot of things with an excavator if you know how to operate them well same with a skid.

I operate almost any thing But when I hop machines it takes me a few mins get good at it again.


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## CAT 245ME (Sep 10, 2006)

Mark13;1699570 said:


> Unload and Load once, beginning and end of the route. A skid steer I bet would be twice as fast as a truck on a driveway. A tractor and blower being quicker then the skid steer.


I see some guy's here that use compact tractors (40hp at the most) with blowers, in the amount of time it takes one of them to clear a drive with lets say a 6" to 8" snow fall, I could do 3 with my truck with a V plow & pull plow.

There is one guy that I know who has a lot of travel time between drives on a 40hp tractor, I've seen him travel 3/4 mile from one drive to the other, I don't know how he makes any money.

Out of all the compact tractors that I've seen around here, none of there work is close together, they are all scattered like bugs.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

xgiovannix12;1699629 said:


> you can do a lot of things with an excavator if you know how to operate them well same with a skid.
> 
> I operate almost any thing But when I hop machines it takes me a few mins get good at it again.


The opportunity for seat time just doesn't come up, a few guys around here that I know who have the machines run them when we have them help with projects at the farm.



CAT 245ME;1699633 said:


> I see some guy's here that use compact tractors (40hp at the most) with blowers, in the amount of time it takes one of them to clear a drive with lets say a 6" to 8" snow fall, I could do 3 with my truck with a V plow & pull plow.
> 
> There is one guy that I know who has a lot of travel time between drives on a 40hp tractor, I've seen him travel 3/4 mile from one drive to the other, I don't know how he makes any money.
> 
> Out of all the compact tractors that I've seen around here, none of there work is close together, they are all scattered like bugs.


I wasn't talking say a 35hp tractor with a 5' rear facing blower on the 3pt, I was thinking more like Neige,Blowerman, etc. 75+hp, 7/8' inverted blowers. And one driveway after another after another all in a row. My statement wasn't clear I guess.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

the only one iv used had a small pusher on it. it was good for what it was used for. but if i was able to do it with my truck i did it much faster. maybe not so without wings.

iv never even seen one setup for drive ways. so guess i cant say i know much about it. i would be skeptical till i saw one tho.


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

CAT 245ME;1699367 said:


> Sometimes it's easier said than done, I see some streets here that you may have 5 driveway's being cleared by trucks, but each one is being done by someone different. Trying to convince homeowners to just go with one company is hard to do, especially with the uninsured doing the job for cheap.


That's right. It is hard and takes effort to gain customers in a sub. We have been getting more aggressive about it. Seeing what Vanderzon (Neige) has done over the years is impressive. We started to market to subs the past two years. Focused on just a few that are near each other. We door knock and leave doorhangers, place signs at the entrance, use flags on our stakes at the ends of the drive, and also cold call in the fall. It doesnt produce customers all at once but it gets our name out there. When a resident decides to switch service, we will be the first they think of.


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

Our F350 runs a 16' ebling. The only thing better would be a tractor/inverted blower. 

And I have trouble seeing the productivity in unloading and loading a skidsteer. Maybe if there are a dozen drives together? And pulling a trailer in a storm would be an anxiety attack for me.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Landgreen;1700096 said:


> Our F350 runs a 16' ebling. The only thing better would be a tractor/inverted blower or a 2speed skid on a tight route.
> *fixed it for ya:waving:*
> 
> And I have trouble seeing the productivity in unloading and loading a skidsteer. Maybe if there are a dozen drives together? And pulling a trailer in a storm would be an anxiety attack for me.


I/my guys dont trailer skids around anymore....parking on/near site or we don't do it...Of course unless its cleanup work after a blizzard(moving/pushing piles back), and that only happens every few yrs.

We park the skid I mentioned earlier in this thread across the street from all the work it does. We have to plow 1 driveway for this parking spot free of charge...takes about 1 min to do the driveway....oh, and we get to plug it in also.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

A man needs several 90hp enclosed cab 4x4 tractors with a small kage on front and inverted blower on back, 17 110hp skids with a kage, 10 F350 srw with a 9.5 v plow, 20 F350 with an 8611 Blizzard plow, 5 Jeeps with a 7' blade, 10 quads with a blade, 10 huge Honda tracked blowers, 12 huge wheeled honda blowers, 20 small honda blowers, 20 single stage push blowers, 300 shovels, 20 sanders on trucks from 1 yard up to a 15 yard, 5 tri-axles with a highway plows and wings, 15 articulated loaders with buckets sized from 1.5 yard to 6 yard, all with matching Kage pushers, 1 dog for each truck, an iphone for all machines and trucks, 4 fully outfitted 16' box service trucks with fuel tanks and hose machines and welders and air tools, a salt mine, a trophy wife who owns a strip club, a trophy girlfriend with a twin sister who likes to join in, and a brother who owns a NAPA store.

And even then, one of us in here would find a fault in the setup.


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

snocrete;1700245 said:


> I/my guys dont trailer skids around anymore....parking on/near site or we don't do it...Of course unless its cleanup work after a blizzard(moving/pushing piles back), and that only happens every few yrs.
> 
> We park the skid I mentioned earlier in this thread across the street from all the work it does. We have to plow 1 driveway for this parking spot free of charge...takes about 1 min to do the driveway....oh, and we get to plug it in also.


Convenient parking and a plug in. You're cheating lol.


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

Buswell Forest;1700343 said:


> A man needs several 90hp enclosed cab 4x4 tractors with a small kage on front and inverted blower on back, 17 110hp skids with a kage, 10 F350 srw with a 9.5 v plow, 20 F350 with an 8611 Blizzard plow, 5 Jeeps with a 7' blade, 10 quads with a blade, 10 huge Honda tracked blowers, 12 huge wheeled honda blowers, 20 small honda blowers, 20 single stage push blowers, 300 shovels, 20 sanders on trucks from 1 yard up to a 15 yard, 5 tri-axles with a highway plows and wings, 15 articulated loaders with buckets sized from 1.5 yard to 6 yard, all with matching Kage pushers, 1 dog for each truck, an iphone for all machines and trucks, 4 fully outfitted 16' box service trucks with fuel tanks and hose machines and welders and air tools, a salt mine, a trophy wife who owns a strip club, a trophy girlfriend with a twin sister who likes to join in, and a brother who owns a NAPA store.
> 
> And even then, one of us in here would find a fault in the setup.


Nice setup


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Buswell Forest;1700343 said:


> A man needs several 90hp enclosed cab 4x4 tractors with a small kage on front and inverted blower on back, 17 110hp skids with a kage, 10 F350 srw with a 9.5 v plow, 20 F350 with an 8611 Blizzard plow, 5 Jeeps with a 7' blade, 10 quads with a blade, 10 huge Honda tracked blowers, 12 huge wheeled honda blowers, 20 small honda blowers, 20 single stage push blowers, 300 shovels, 20 sanders on trucks from 1 yard up to a 15 yard, 5 tri-axles with a highway plows and wings, 15 articulated loaders with buckets sized from 1.5 yard to 6 yard, all with matching Kage pushers, 1 dog for each truck, an iphone for all machines and trucks, 4 fully outfitted 16' box service trucks with fuel tanks and hose machines and welders and air tools, a salt mine, a trophy wife who owns a strip club, a trophy girlfriend with a twin sister who likes to join in, and a brother who owns a NAPA store.
> 
> And even then, one of us in here would find a fault in the setup.


You forgot wings on the plows


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

Buswell Forest;1700343 said:


> A man needs several 90hp enclosed cab 4x4 tractors with a small kage on front and inverted blower on back, 17 110hp skids with a kage, 10 F350 srw with a 9.5 v plow, 20 F350 with an 8611 Blizzard plow, 5 Jeeps with a 7' blade, 10 quads with a blade, 10 huge Honda tracked blowers, 12 huge wheeled honda blowers, 20 small honda blowers, 20 single stage push blowers, 300 shovels, 20 sanders on trucks from 1 yard up to a 15 yard, 5 tri-axles with a highway plows and wings, 15 articulated loaders with buckets sized from 1.5 yard to 6 yard, all with matching Kage pushers, 1 dog for each truck, an iphone for all machines and trucks, 4 fully outfitted 16' box service trucks with fuel tanks and hose machines and welders and air tools, a salt mine, a trophy wife who owns a strip club, a trophy girlfriend with a twin sister who likes to join in, and a brother who owns a NAPA store.
> 
> And even then, one of us in here would find a fault in the setup.


all that iron and no mechanics?

Also no utvs or tool handlers?

Snow dragon?

Lowbed?

I could go on buswell, you're setup is lacking.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Leave your comments and I will read them later.

Taking the twins to the strip club for a drink with the wife.


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

Buswell Forest;1700368 said:


> Leave your comments and I will read them later.
> 
> Taking the twins to the strip club for a drink with the wife.


hah :laughing::laughing:


----------



## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

Buswell Forest;1700368 said:


> Leave your comments and I will read them later.
> 
> Taking the twins to the strip club for a drink with the wife.


Awesome........ lmao


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

Buswell Forest;1700343 said:


> A man needs several 90hp enclosed cab 4x4 tractors with a small kage on front and inverted blower on back, 17 110hp skids with a kage, 10 F350 srw with a 9.5 v plow, 20 F350 with an 8611 Blizzard plow, 5 Jeeps with a 7' blade, 10 quads with a blade, 10 huge Honda tracked blowers, 12 huge wheeled honda blowers, 20 small honda blowers, 20 single stage push blowers, 300 shovels, 20 sanders on trucks from 1 yard up to a 15 yard, 5 tri-axles with a highway plows and wings, 15 articulated loaders with buckets sized from 1.5 yard to 6 yard, all with matching Kage pushers, 1 dog for each truck, an iphone for all machines and trucks, 4 fully outfitted 16' box service trucks with fuel tanks and hose machines and welders and air tools, a salt mine, a trophy wife who owns a strip club, a trophy girlfriend with a twin sister who likes to join in, and a brother who owns a NAPA store.
> 
> And even then, one of us in here would find a fault in the setup.


That's funny as hell. Lmao.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Buswell Forest;1700343 said:


> A man needs several 90hp enclosed cab 4x4 tractors with a small kage on front and inverted blower on back, 17 110hp skids with a kage, 10 F350 srw with a 9.5 v plow, 20 F350 with an 8611 Blizzard plow, 5 Jeeps with a 7' blade, 10 quads with a blade, 10 huge Honda tracked blowers, 12 huge wheeled honda blowers, 20 small honda blowers, 20 single stage push blowers, 300 shovels, 20 sanders on trucks from 1 yard up to a 15 yard, 5 tri-axles with a highway plows and wings, 15 articulated loaders with buckets sized from 1.5 yard to 6 yard, all with matching Kage pushers, 1 dog for each truck, an iphone for all machines and trucks, 4 fully outfitted 16' box service trucks with fuel tanks and hose machines and welders and air tools, a salt mine, a trophy wife who owns a strip club, a trophy girlfriend with a twin sister who likes to join in, and a brother who owns a NAPA store.
> 
> And even then, one of us in here would find a fault in the setup.


Exactly...you forgot my own personal brinks truck to haul my money to the bank in.



Landgreen;1700350 said:


> Convenient parking and a plug in. You're cheating lol.


:waving:


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## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

snocrete;1700561 said:


> Exactly...you forgot my own personal brinks truck to haul my money to the bank in.
> 
> :waving:


If the has a trophy wife and a girlfriend with a sister that likes to join in. He has no money!


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Buswell Forest;1700343 said:


> A man needs several 90hp enclosed cab 4x4 tractors with a small kage on front and inverted blower on back, 17 110hp skids with a kage, 10 F350 srw with a 9.5 v plow, 20 F350 with an 8611 Blizzard plow, 5 Jeeps with a 7' blade, 10 quads with a blade, 10 huge Honda tracked blowers, 12 huge wheeled honda blowers, 20 small honda blowers, 20 single stage push blowers, 300 shovels, 20 sanders on trucks from 1 yard up to a 15 yard, 5 tri-axles with a highway plows and wings, 15 articulated loaders with buckets sized from 1.5 yard to 6 yard, all with matching Kage pushers, 1 dog for each truck, an iphone for all machines and trucks, 4 fully outfitted 16' box service trucks with fuel tanks and hose machines and welders and air tools, a salt mine, a trophy wife who owns a strip club, a trophy girlfriend with a twin sister who likes to join in, and a brother who owns a NAPA store.
> 
> And even then, one of us in here would find a fault in the setup.


ya,because it not me!


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Rick547;1700755 said:


> If the has a trophy wife and a girlfriend with a sister that likes to join in. He has no money!


Some things are more important than money, I am sure we can all agree.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Trophey women dont cook


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## jbell36 (Feb 21, 2008)

not sure if this was covered or not, but when you guys say you do residentials, does that include getting out and shoveling sidewalks and front doors?


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

birddseedd;1701071 said:


> Trophey women dont cook


Have you not seen grandview's pic??? They can cook!


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

jbell36;1701097 said:


> not sure if this was covered or not, but when you guys say you do residentials, does that include getting out and shoveling sidewalks and front doors?


i charge 25 for a typical drive and another 25 to shovel.


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

birddseedd;1701114 said:


> i charge 25 for a typical drive and another 25 to shovel.


No wonder Im loosing contracts :realmad:


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

xgiovannix12;1701120 said:


> No wonder Im loosing contracts :realmad:


how much do you charge?


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

birddseedd;1701114 said:


> i charge 25 for a typical drive and another 25 to shovel.


Ok............


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

birddseedd;1701123 said:


> how much do you charge?


A lot more then that payup


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

xgiovannix12;1701129 said:


> A lot more then that payup


not sure i could get more than that in michigan


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

birddseedd;1701114 said:


> i charge 25 for a typical drive and another 25 to shovel.


Which is why I won't do drives!  damn lowballers


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## jbell36 (Feb 21, 2008)

birddseedd;1701114 said:


> i charge 25 for a typical drive and another 25 to shovel.


sounds about right…the problem with us is all of our customers don't just want their drive done, they want all walks done too, some take 5 seconds, some take 15 minutes (shoveling only)…

you have to deal with a lot of bs with resi, "don't come unless we get 6 or more inches," "only plow if it snows from this date to this date," etc…..

we like to charge $50 per drive, that includes shoveling…this is for typical four car drives, anything bigger the price goes up, and anything over 6" is an additional $25 up charge…we have a little trouble with customers thinking $50 is too much, BUT we are reliable and get it done before they get up…

i personally hate resi, but we do it because we are a lawn company and want to provide full service…last storm we had a few friends take care of the drives so we could focus on commercial and it worked out great…they make 80%

i've contemplated getting better equipment for drives and going all out, if we wanted to we could more drives than we ever wanted…if we had say a tractor with a blower we could knock drive out after drive, but we still have the problem of shoveling


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Bossman 92;1701131 said:


> Which is why I won't do drives!  damn lowballers


50 bucks for something that takes 5 minutes seems like good money to me.

but hey, if you can get people top pay more, that's more for you.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Well when I come back on in the morning this thread will be locked too!


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

birddseedd;1701138 said:


> 50 bucks for something that takes 5 minutes seems like good money to me.
> 
> but hey, if you can get people top pay more, that's more for you.


So...you can plow an average drive AND get out and shovel all walks in 5 minuets?


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

For the average ones that I do.

There are larger ones that I charge more for.


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

grandview;1701143 said:


> Well when I come back on in the morning this thread will be locked too!


lol yup Thumbs Up


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

How many $50 drives do you do?


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

I would suggest that some try to ignore, or not respond to someone, if they do not enjoy talking with them rather then attacking another member and trying to have the threads closed or removed

thanks, we would appreciate it


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Bossman 92;1701181 said:


> How many $50 drives do you do?


I have 2 on my route. Most only want the drive done.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

birddseedd;1701196 said:


> I have 2 on my route. Most only want the drive done.


Ok 2-$50 drives how many $25 drives then?


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Bossman 92;1701204 said:


> Ok 2-$50 drives how many $25 drives then?


about 11.

tho i have been thinking of trying to get more so i can get rid of a bad client and give my guys a raise for that portion of the work.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Bossman 92;1701181 said:


> How many $50 drives do you do?


Everyone's market will bear pricing that's completely different than others locations will bear, so complaining about how much someone charges for a driveway doesn't really make any sense whatsoever, unless you're both in the same locale.

I live where it used to be $75 to do a 2 wide, 3 deep driveway and short walk to the front door. I'm finding it difficult to get $50, because the market is flooded with guys who work uninsured, and don't mind making half of that.


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

I want to chime in but I know my post would be edited and no one would be able to make sense of it....makes me sick to see people coddled....


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Dogplow Dodge;1701211 said:


> Everyone's market will bear pricing that's completely different than others locations will bear, so complaining about how much someone charges for a driveway doesn't really make any sense whatsoever, unless you're both in the same locale.
> 
> I live where it used to be $75 to do a 2 wide, 3 deep driveway and short walk to the front door. I'm finding it difficult to get $50, because the market is flooded with guys who work uninsured, and don't mind making half of that.


a town east of me, there is a group of guys that jump out of a care in shovels and do a drive for 10 to 15 bucks. a guy i talked with said he cant even do drives because they get the whole market in the town.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Dogplow Dodge;1701211 said:


> Everyone's market will bear pricing that's completely different than others locations will bear, so complaining about how much someone charges for a driveway doesn't really make any sense whatsoever, unless you're both in the same locale.
> 
> I live where it used to be $75 to do a 2 wide, 3 deep driveway and short walk to the front door. I'm finding it difficult to get $50, because the market is flooded with guys who work uninsured, and don't mind making half of that.


I agree but an average drive for $25 (unless you have a pile of them in the same hood) is cheap. I wouldn't do a drive for $25 for a friend. Would be better off telling them its a donation.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

deicepro;1701219 said:


> I want to chime in but I know my post would be edited and no one would be able to make sense of it....makes me sick to see people coddled....


I know the feeling


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

deicepro;1701219 said:


> I want to chime in but I know my post would be edited and no one would be able to make sense of it....makes me sick to see people coddled....


Not coddling anyone. Simply stating the fact that it doesn't make any sense arguing over different markets that bear no relationship to each other, other than they're both having snow cleared from the properties.

For example, I don't do salting or sanding unless I get big $$ for it.... period. this is just the way that I prefer to roll..

Some contractors, OTOH, are out there salting for $20 a bag spread. I won't even touch a bag of salt or sand for that, as I tell my customers that the liability incurred isn't worth the inherent "lack of perceived value" that they all have of the service of deicing.

It's difficult for some to realize that by me salting, or sanding or deicing their properties, I significantly increase my liability exposure, by providing a false sense of safety that the surface is perfectly fine to just behave normally when crossing, walking, or being there. When I just clear snow, it's left as a normal "winter conditions present" surface, and should any lawsuits occur due to S&F, it's in the contract that the Owner declined deicing, or would do it themselves, taking part of the responsibility of the final surface conditions on themselves. Am I still liable ? Yes, but not to the extent I would be if I gave the impression that all was safe to travel, by deicing. It's just not worth the risk for the few dollars I would get competing with those in my market doing the same deicing.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Bossman 92;1701224 said:


> I agree but an average drive for $25 (unless you have a pile of them in the same hood) is cheap. I wouldn't do a drive for $25 for a friend. Would be better off telling them its a donation.


What is an "average drive" ? We have some driveways here that are 1.0 to 1.5 car lengths long, and 1.0 to 1.5 car widths wide. How much can anyone realistically charge to swipe the blade back to the street, or make a 90 second pass on a driveway ?

I wouldn't consider them "average", but more of a small driveway. This is why its so important to have all the details of what apples to apples the pricing is being applied to. Some counties here are much poorer than others. In those counties, clearing snow has to be less expensive, otherwise, no one would ever sell any jobs.


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

Dogplow Dodge;1701243 said:


> Not coddling anyone. Simply stating the fact that it doesn't make any sense arguing over different markets that bear no relationship to each other, other than they're both having snow cleared from the properties.
> 
> For example, I don't do salting or sanding unless I get big $$ for it.... period. this is just the way that I prefer to roll..
> 
> ...


My post wasn't aimed at you...


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

deicepro;1701249 said:


> My post wasn't aimed at you...


My bad,


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

I have 30 medium sized driveways I charge $30-35 per drive and that includes us shovling the side walks going to the front door, all the shoveling takes no more than 5 minutes each usually, each driveway usually takes anywhere from 5-15 minutes. That's an easy $900-$1000+ per plowing and it takes 2 trucks 2-4hrs with drive time to finish them. Do you guys think that im lowballing?


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

94gt331;1701253 said:


> I have 30 medium sized driveways I charge $30-35 per drive and that includes us shovling the side walks going to the front door, all the shoveling takes no more than 5 minutes each usually, each driveway usually takes anywhere from 5-15 minutes. That's an easy $900-$1000+ per plowing and it takes 2 trucks 2-4hrs with drive time to finish them. Do you guys think that im lowballing?


Sounds like a great deal for you if they're all in the same general vicinity. What is a medium sized driveway, in your travels ?


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

Im lucky that $25 in my area is almost unheard of, and prices usually start around 35-40. Different markets. It all has to do with the people who live in the town. $75 sounds cheap to the guy in the 750k house on the water, but ms. smith who lives down the street would cry bloody murder for the same drive. 

Its meaningless to argue over lowballers and pricing of others on this board, for the most part we all live in different areas.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

94gt331;1701253 said:


> I have 30 medium sized driveways I charge $30-35 per drive and that includes us shovling the side walks going to the front door, all the shoveling takes no more than 5 minutes each usually, each driveway usually takes anywhere from 5-15 minutes. That's an easy $900-$1000+ per plowing and it takes 2 trucks 2-4hrs with drive time to finish them. Do you guys think that im lowballing?


900 per truck or total? I bill out about $1100 per storm(if its 2") on a 5 hour route with 26 drives. You certainly aren't lowballing. Its all what the market can bare


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

SnowFakers;1701258 said:


> Its meaningless to argue over lowballers and pricing of others on this board, for the most part we all live in different areas.


Exactly....everyone is trying to make a living but it's sucks when some people are not smart enough to figure out that they are part of the problem with the industry


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

deicepro;1701267 said:


> Exactly....everyone is trying to make a living but it's sucks when some people are not smart enough to figure out that they are part of the problem with the industry


How do you figure that?


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

deicepro;1701267 said:


> Exactly....everyone is trying to make a living but it's sucks when some people are not smart enough to figure out that they are part of the problem with the industry


Last year the largest company in town was doing drives for 10 dollars.

you clearly know nothing about the market in my town.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

birddseedd;1701273 said:


> Last year the largest company in town was doing drives for 10 dollars.
> 
> you clearly know nothing about the market in my town.


How would he know anything about your town or its market? He doesnt live there? At $10 a driveway nobody is making money I can tell you that. With insurance, fuel, labor, truck costs, maintenance, not anybody will ever make money at those prices. If you think you are at the top of what your market can withstand than that's great but don't short yourself money either.


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

birddseedd;1701273 said:


> Last year the largest company in town was doing drives for 10 dollars.
> 
> you clearly know nothing about the market in my town.


You obviously mis-read what I wrote


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

SnowFakers;1701277 said:


> How would he know anything about your town or its market? He doesnt live there? At $10 a driveway nobody is making money I can tell you that. With insurance, fuel, labor, truck costs, maintenance, not anybody will ever make money at those prices. If you think you are at the top of what your market can withstand than that's great but don't short yourself money either.


Your right about that, but for a company that big, last year was a complete loss. They were simply trying to break even.

the point of what i was saying, kinda the same as you, he knows nothing about my town or its market, but is so confident that I am the problem, he is not taking into account the basics of monetary economics.


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

SnowFakers;1701277 said:


> At $10 a driveway nobody is making money.....


Exactly....especially a large company


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

deicepro;1701288 said:


> Exactly....especially a large company


Yea, i cant imagine the amount of money they lost last year. It would break me.


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## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

I wish someone would come around an offer to do my drive for $10. I would sell my truck and plow. I could sit back drink coffee, read the paper and watch the boob tube. Maybe chase my wife around the furniture.


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## pkez111 (Sep 16, 2010)

You dont make your money in plowing, its made in salt. How many times are you salting a driveway in one season? No thank you on residential!


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

i hardly ever salt. in fact i just bought 2 spreaders. I know ill be losing money on one of them. but i need it for the contract. so i guess im making money in that sense.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

2006Sierra1500;1697557 said:


> All I do is driveways....its not the driveways, its the customers. Trust me.


I agree, I had a lady just a few days ago ask me if I would drop the price because we are getting snow sooner this year and she is worried about it being costly. I told her I'm not dropping anything but this invoice in your mail box, by the way that payment is due in a week.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

kg26;1701325 said:


> I agree, I had a lady just a few days ago ask me if I would drop the price because we are getting snow sooner this year and she is worried about it being costly. I told her I'm not dropping anything but this invoice in your mail box, by the way that payment is due in a week.


I assume you said that in your head?


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

> Why do it at all ? He's going to pack snow and ice down on the easy storms and you're going to have to slip and slide and beat up your truck to save him a few dollars on the hard storms. I'll do willcall drives but they're done last and cost more to make it more appealing to be a regular.


I can not stand when folks do that, drive all over the driveway pack it down then decide to call you after its all turned to ice. When I get those calls I give them my "I really don't want to be bothered with your kind price." It is usually to the tune of $150.00. I know it is icy before I even see it because they are the one to call two days after the system passed through the area.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

birddseedd;1701326 said:


> I assume you said that in your head?


What?! Heck no! You gotta be firm with these folks, you gotta let em know "I plow here, you just live here" You gotta.... Yes, I said every word of it in my head.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Dogplow Dodge;1701211 said:


> Everyone's market will bear pricing that's completely different than others locations will bear, so complaining about how much someone charges for a driveway doesn't really make any sense whatsoever, unless you're both in the same locale.
> 
> I live where it used to be $75 to do a 2 wide, 3 deep driveway and short walk to the front door. I'm finding it difficult to get $50, because the market is flooded with guys who work uninsured, and don't mind making half of that.





Bossman 92;1701224 said:


> I agree but an *average drive for $25* (unless you have a pile of them in the same hood) *is cheap*. I wouldn't do a drive for $25 for a friend. Would be better off telling them its a donation.


your not listening (or reading) what dogplow is saying. EVERYONES market pricing is different. that starts at the min and goes to the max.

so you really can't throw out the $25 figure saying its cheap no matter where your located like there is some national market. $25 might be cheap from your location.

I charge $25 for an average driveway to plow per visit up to 4 inches of snow and it includes sidewalks and steps done with snow blowers and shovels. I also have some $30 driveways and a $35 driveway or two. and again they all include snow blowing the sidewalks and shoveling the steps.

those are typical numbers in my location. I'm not the cheapest but I'm not the most expensive either.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

yardguy28;1701447 said:


> your not listening (or reading) what dogplow is saying. EVERYONES market pricing is different. that starts at the min and goes to the max.
> 
> so you really can't throw out the $25 figure saying its cheap no matter where your located like there is some national market. $25 might be cheap from your location.
> 
> ...


The worst part is that everyone keeps talking about an "AVERAGE" driveway. Your perception, his perception, her perception, and everyone else has a perception of what an average driveway actually is. In my own neighborhood an average driveway is either 1 car length, or 1.5 car lengths long and about the same in width. Some are shorter being only long enough to put their car in there, where the back end meets the sidewalk near the street. There's a few that are longer and double wide, but few and far between. So for that neighborhood an average driveway is super small.

Go a few towns over, and it's 400' long driveway with a 3 car garage and a 1600 square foot turn around in front of the garages. Although on the large side for a residential driveway, it's actually the average for that neighborhood.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

yep that's a very good point as well. 

bottom line is EVERYONES market is different. all the way from the min price and max price per visit to the size of driveways like you just said to what work (driveway only or sidewalks/steps included) is done as well. 

there is NO NATIONAL AVERAGE in the equation.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

My best hourly rate plowing is driveways although I only have 4 of them and can only do them when we get 4" or more. They are all neighbors in one small community. they are each 65 bucks to do the drives and we shovel there 20ft sidewalks to there front porch. We do all 4 of them in right at 30-40 minutes................... I would go broke in southern ohio doing just driveways though because we hardly ever get 4"+ snowfalls. maybe 2-3 times per year. 

If my area got 4" snowfalls often though Id get rid of every commercial ive got and stock up on drives. we get a lot of 1"-3" snows in my area though...... So in reality in that 30-40 munutes I bill $260 bucks. not to dam bad for 30-40 min....... There all 4 easy as pie though. Bout 50ft long drop blade and push straight back off the end of the driveway. These places the owners have to go up the drive and turn left to get into there garage so you can just push straight. Id take 100 of those any day over commercial work but in this area the comment above rules. I make most my money salting!


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

For me it come down too, is this a profitable revenue stream for my business? Are the problems manageable yes, then do it. If it don't work for you go look for the work that puts jingle in your jeans.good luck.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

yardguy28;1701460 said:


> yep that's a very good point as well.
> 
> bottom line is EVERYONES market is different. all the way from the min price and max price per visit to the size of driveways like you just said to what work (driveway only or sidewalks/steps included) is done as well.
> 
> there is NO NATIONAL AVERAGE in the equation.


agreed for sure....... I really cant see 10 bucks a drive being in anyones market though! LOL


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Something I keep in the back of my mind, there is a reason wal-mart exists for some people price is the only factor. Someone has to service those kind of people, it is just not me.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

I think a lot of it depends on how much snow you get your area also. In michigan we can get snow more constantly. Whereas other places only have 2 or 3 events, they have a lot more quipment pay for with lot less work so they have to charge more make money


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

yardguy28;1701447 said:


> your not listening (or reading) what dogplow is saying. EVERYONES market pricing is different. that starts at the min and goes to the max.
> 
> so you really can't throw out the $25 figure saying its cheap no matter where your located like there is some national market. $25 might be cheap from your location.
> 
> ...


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

I HATE driveways and only do a select few for long time customers and family friends. Then there's the gf's house couple other favors etc. they all get done once at the end of the storm once everything on the commercial side is wrapped up. They all understand that and I give them a little break. Works out for me but still don't enjoy it lol


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Bossman 92;1701663 said:


> Alright then it wouldn't be fair to say the company doing drives for $10 a pop is cheap either. I consider an "average" drive to be one with room for parking for 4 cars.
> 
> I do understand what he is saying but for me I wouldn't get out of bed for a handful of $25 driveways.


well I personally don't complain about my competitors prices. I pay attention to my business and if I am making the kind of money I need and want regardless of what the guy down the street is charging/making.


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

Everyone is set up differently plowing wise, for me it's driveways and small to medium commercial with a handful of zero tolerance accounts as well as 1 large distribution center. I sometimes dream of going after a walmart or large shoping center but i don't want to invest in the large equiptment right now. I'm just thankful to be busy when we are out plowing and I'm thankful for those driveways because those customers need me so i service them with a smile. I average close to $3,000 a storm with everything, 3 trucks and a skid averaging 6-10 hrs per guy. 4 guys on my crew.thats on a storm around 4 inches or so.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

94gt331;1701748 said:


> Everyone is set up differently plowing wise, for me it's driveways and small to medium commercial with a handful of zero tolerance accounts as well as 1 large distribution center. I sometimes dream of going after a walmart or large shoping center but i don't want to invest in the large equiptment right now. I'm just thankful to be busy when we are out plowing and I'm thankful for those driveways because those customers need me so i service them with a smile. I average close to $3,000 a storm with everything, 3 trucks and a skid averaging 6-10 hrs per guy. 4 guys on my crew.thats on a storm around 4 inches or so.


Use subs for the big lots you want. Till its worth the investment


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

birddseedd;1701800 said:


> Use subs for the big lots you want. Till its worth the investment


Do you know how much that would cost?

Not only that subs want to be paid after service while your contract might be net 30......


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

My PITA customer pulled his trick again.....

Called me 3 F*#% times before 8AM. He needed to bring wood in. Desperate need. Filling the wood box up yesterday before the nor'easter simply wasn't an option I guess. I ignored the calls and let it go to voicemail..
I got there around 10AM, and he was frantic. 

People are dumb.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

jrs.landscaping;1701826 said:


> Do you know how much that would cost?
> 
> Not only that subs want to be paid after service while your contract might be net 30......


my guys wait till i get paid. sometimes i help them out with gas.

it costs a lot. but you still make profit.

just an idea. although im not sure i would do it on such a big account unless you have lots of guys. thats not the kinda account you want to lose.

although, my insurance company wont let me do big companies like that.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

You have guys with loaders and pushers.....?

If I have a loader staged at your site you helping me with fuel isn't going to cut it........


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

i mean, instead of a guy with a loader, a bunch of guys with trucks. would cost a bit more. doubte anyone with a loader would want to work at a sub rate.


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

birddseedd;1701800 said:


> Use subs for the big lots you want. Till its worth the investment


Good idea but i'd rather play it safe at this time and stay where I'm at, don't want to relie on someone else to do my work, and don't want to get over my head.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

94gt331;1702335 said:


> Good idea but i'd rather play it safe at this time and stay where I'm at, don't want to relie on someone else to do my work, and don't want to get over my head.


if you are profitable, its not a bad idea. especially with a job that big. blow it now youll never get another chance. not a bad way to go with picking up a few extra smaller accounts.


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## CAT 245ME (Sep 10, 2006)

Mark13;1699642 said:


> I wasn't talking say a 35hp tractor with a 5' rear facing blower on the 3pt, I was thinking more like Neige,Blowerman, etc. 75+hp, 7/8' inverted blowers. And one driveway after another after another all in a row. My statement wasn't clear I guess.


I knew you meant the larger tractors, my biggest fear with investing in a large tractor is what do you do if you have a break down and you have 100 plus properties. Looking at my area, it's safe to say that at least 75% of resi's cant be done with a truck, just no where to push the snow, to many obstacles. So in my case for example, if the tractor or blower has a serious issue, my trucks will be mostly useless on many properties.

But I still would like to give a 90 - 100hp tractor a shot though.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

An idea could also be to lease a loader for the big lots.

(If im responding to the right thread)


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

CAT 245ME;1703100 said:


> I knew you meant the larger tractors, my biggest fear with investing in a large tractor is what do you do if you have a break down and you have 100 plus properties. Looking at my area, it's safe to say that at least 75% of resi's cant be done with a truck, just no where to push the snow, to many obstacles. So in my case for example, if the tractor or blower has a serious issue, my trucks will be mostly useless on many properties.
> 
> But I still would like to give a 90 - 100hp tractor a shot though.


It'll melt come June or July 

I've thought about the same thing, it's not so bad if you can suck it up and do the drives with a truck or another piece of equipment but if snowblowing is kinda the only option you might be SOL if the tractor goes down and has to wait for parts.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Saw a W20 Case articulated loader for sale today...I ran a W24 back in the day...it was a nice machine.
Got me thinking, scheming.


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## CAT 245ME (Sep 10, 2006)

Buswell Forest;1703369 said:


> Saw a W20 Case articulated loader for sale today...I ran a W24 back in the day...it was a nice machine.
> Got me thinking, scheming.


Hey that should help you get to the wood pile quicker Thumbs Up


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

CAT 245ME;1703632 said:


> Hey that should help you get to the wood pile quicker Thumbs Up


And scraping up that six inches of hard packed snow


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Just for moving back frozen bankings and general dubbing around it would be dang nice.
Then, I could at least consider bidding on a couple private road systems near me...I was offered a recommendation to the HOA by several residents...but declined, not being able to do the job in a timely and efficient manner.
But now.....I have a full time employee on my logging side..and it would be nice to give him a seat so he had some way of generating his own payroll during and after a storm. We cut conventionally, with chain saws, and it sucks to be out on the woods with a yard of snow dumping on your head every 2 minutes.
That is why I started plowing.

This machine is the right size to push a 12' power angle plow....but not so big as to be in it's own way.
Don't know the price, so it's almost certainly wishful thinking just now.


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## CAT 245ME (Sep 10, 2006)

Buswell Forest;1703677 said:


> This machine is the right size to push a 12' power angle plow....but not so big as to be in it's own way.
> Don't know the price, so it's almost certainly wishful thinking just now.


Normally the old loaders are not that expensive to purchase, I looked at a Hough 65C that was in pretty good shape, had a lot of the hydraulic hoses replaced, rebuilt engine, tires not even half worn, 3 1/4 yard bucket with quick coupler and a 12' angle blade. Priced at $13k.


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