# Damaged my equipment on client property



## E-Town (Mar 11, 2018)

Hi everyone,
yesterday we had a new client property for the snow removal residential.

while doing her driveway ( 3 inch of snow ) first time at this address , my Toro 721 RC commercial have hit the ( " Bohnome " <- french = english Main water switch on/off ). ( 2 inch out of the ground hide under the snow ). Don't know how to call it in english but usually is in front lawn or driveway same level of ground. It is use to open or close water to the house from the city.

Anyhow i hit it and now my brand new machine making some noise like the belt slip etc...

In my policy ( They have agreed too ) It specify its their responsability to report to us anything that could be dangerous or damaging our equipement on their property.

The lady seems very Nice Paid up the rest of the season one payment ++++ TIPS. very nice one.

I dont want to sounds cheap but i still paid the machine $875 CAN First day on the job.

Would you Notify the client and request some compensation or not ?

Im juggling here as if i should or not.

I want to added I know i have a garanty on the machine but i dont have a clue what to say to my dealer. They have always been Good to me , im not the kind of lying and dont know if that would be covered or not.

Thanks


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

When you hit the curb box shutoff did it damage the paddles on your machine ? Or did it just stop the paddles and burn the belt ?


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## E-Town (Mar 11, 2018)

SHAWZER said:


> When you hit the curb box shutoff did it damage the paddles on your machine ? Or did it just stop the paddles and burn the belt ?


I think it would make sense to say stop paddles and Burn Belt.

I did 40 property with the machine, finished the run but their is now this noise coming from the belt when i pull the gaz line. Not consistent but kind of the belt would need to be change or something like that noisy. Started right after i hit that thing.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Install a new belt and keep the old one for a spare .


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## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

I hit one of those. Tore is right out of the driveway. Customer tried to make me pay for it. Told her nope not it (see contract).


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## E-Town (Mar 11, 2018)

SHAWZER said:


> Install a new belt and keep the old one for a spare .


If that only the fix need GREAT then i think the belt is like $35 - $65 something like 2 type, cheap one and the top one. Will go for the best belt they have then. Thanks man :weightlifter:


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## E-Town (Mar 11, 2018)

TJS said:


> I hit one of those. Tore is right out of the driveway. Customer tried to make me pay for it. Told her nope not it (see contract).


Ouch I don't plow but i could see this you feel it thats for sure lol. damm


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

We call them B-Boxes (short for Buffalo Box)

I am going to say that it is just the cost of doing business.

If you were in a pickup and you backed over her mailbox would you ask her to replace your tailgate and rear bumper?


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## ZL1 (Oct 29, 2019)

For the cost of a belt I would eat it, although technically the homeowner is at fault if they agreed to inform you of any hidden obstructions.

No offense Phil, but the mailbox analogy is a bad one, unless it was hidden under snow in the drive. I liken the op's issue to someone fastening a grade 80 chain to two healthy tree trunks across the drive and under 12" of snow.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

ZL1 said:


> For the cost of a belt I would eat it, although technically the homeowner is at fault if they agreed to inform you of any hidden obstructions.
> 
> No offense Phil, but the mailbox analogy is a bad one, unless it was hidden under snow in the drive. I liken the op's issue to someone fastening a grade 80 chain to two healthy tree trunks across the drive and under 12" of snow.


Let me see if I follow...So if you are plowing a parking lot and you don't look at it first and put snow stakes at the curb lines, and you hit a curb at 30mph and rip your truck to shreds, that is the property owner's issue cause you did not do your homework and make note of things that can be a hazard under the snow... sorry... nope


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Let me see if I follow...So if you are plowing a parking lot and you don't look at it first and put snow stakes at the curb lines, and you hit a curb at 30mph and rip your truck to shreds, that is the property owner's issue cause you did not do your homework and make note of things that can be a hazard under the snow... sorry... nope


OK, I was going to ask a stupid question...I will anyways.

Why is it the homeowner's responsibility to notify the contractor of obstructions?

This should have been noted when checking the site for a price...or staking.


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

Always a good idea to have snow bibles in each piece of equipment that outlines the punch list with pictures. A small flashlight is a good touch to.


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## E-Town (Mar 11, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why is it the homeowner's responsibility to notify the contractor of obstructions?


IMHO ... I call it Covering my asses of Law suite.
Imagine if i would have damage it badly and she would ask me to pay for it.

I use the exemple of one of our Policy about its the home owner responsability to notify contractor about icing surface on their property.



Mudly said:


> Always a good idea to have snow bibles in each piece of equipment that outlines the punch list with pictures. A small flashlight is a good touch to.


I have already make a note on this account about it and this will be on the daily scheduling beside the clients name/ property.


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## ZL1 (Oct 29, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> Let me see if I follow...So if you are plowing a parking lot and you don't look at it first and put snow stakes at the curb lines, and you hit a curb at 30mph and rip your truck to shreds, that is the property owner's issue cause you did not do your homework and make note of things that can be a hazard under the snow... sorry... nope


No. One should stake and inspect. A curb is another bad analogy...unless it was poured overnight.

But if a hidden hazard is present (cleanout, pipe, etc) on the owners property that they ought to know about (a separate issue) it is incumbent on them to so inform. The bottom line is: an iron pipe protruding 2" above the pavement is a hazard the owner ought to address.


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## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

Ha. Good question there Mr. Oooot. I did in fact inspect. All clear at the time of inspection. Apparently the water company or whoever decided to add this iron pipe meter cover POS that I took ooot after I was there. So ya, it was not there when I was there for inspection.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

E-Town said:


> IMHO ... I call it Covering my asses of Law suite.
> Imagine if i would have damage it badly and she would ask me to pay for it.


If you marked it and made a note of it which is YOUR responsibility as the contractor, you wouldn't damage it.



E-Town said:


> I use the exemple of one of our Policy about its the home owner responsability to notify contractor about icing surface on their property.


Again, this is what you are getting paid for as a contractor...to monitor conditions and treat them as necessary per the contract.

Why don't you have it in your contract that they wake you up when it starts snowing and hits your trigger depth?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why don't you have it in your contract that they wake you up when it starts snowing and hits your trigger depth?


that's going in next year's contract, just think of all the sleep you'll save .


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> that's going in next year's contract, just think of all the sleep you'll save .


Wish I would have thought of that...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Wish I would have thought of that...


Maybe you could have sued the lake that swallowed that skidsteer....


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

All the homeowner has to do is say “but I told you that was there”; then it’s their word against yours. 

they (or the town) would then make you pay for any damages to the shutoff valve cover


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

ZL1 said:


> No. One should stake and inspect. A curb is another bad analogy...unless it was poured overnight.
> 
> But if a hidden hazard is present (cleanout, pipe, etc) on the owners property that they ought to know about (a separate issue) it is incumbent on them to so inform. The bottom line is: an iron pipe protruding 2" above the pavement is a hazard the owner ought to address.


Not to be a jerk, but how can a curb box in the middle of a walk, drive, or lot be a hidden hazard?

I have a lot where the asphalt is more than a little wavy (settling throughout). There's a curb box in the middle of it. I know this. I usually plow it with a 3/4 truck with a boss V and because of the heavingess, I straddle it. Guess what, I plowed it with my jeep and hit. I bent the push frame and had to go to the shop for a quick fix, so I could finish my route. The next day I bought a new push frame.
Will the customer pay for it, yes, but not by me handing them an invoice for damage, but by me raising my rate next year.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

ZL1 said:


> The bottom line is: an iron pipe protruding 2" above the pavement is a hazard the owner ought to address.


Why? Something sticking up 2" is not that much. Pull out a tape and really look at it... It obviously never effected them. How would they even know that it is a hazard to a plow truck or snowblower... I believe that you are giving the common home owner far to much credit.

They have no idea what "that thing over there in their driveway" even is... let alone that it sticking up 2" will catch a snow blower.

But... I will play along... how about a manhole sticking up in the middle of a parking lot? Ever hit one of them at a clip? Hit it right and it knocks your knees into your dash. You can't stake it, the owner of the property can't stand there every time you plow, nor do they even know that it sticking up will hurt your equipment.

Again... being the contractor, you are responsible for pre-tripping and checking for obstructions.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> Maybe you could have sued the lake that swallowed that skidsteer....


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

TJS said:


> Ha. Good question there Mr. Oooot. I did in fact inspect. All clear at the time of inspection. Apparently the water company or whoever decided to add this iron pipe meter cover POS that I took ooot after I was there. So ya, it was not there when I was there for inspection.


That situation holds a bit more water in my book. If it changed from when it was not covered in snow, what else can you do?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Maybe you could have sued the lake that swallowed that skidsteer....


How do you know I didn't???


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## E-Town (Mar 11, 2018)

You guys are something LOL. Thanks to all for their input appreciated.

I can clearly now see Both side point of view about this issue i had and this is why i was asking your though about it.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Are we talking about one of these shutoff valves...










If so hit it with a sledge, they are telescopic and designed to move with frost heave...
If you dont wanna try this call the city, they come and do it for you.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Years ago, I sued the pants off the newspaper delivery boy for damage to my blower.

Through arbitration, we agreed he wouldn't delivery the paper til after snow operations were complete.

I would Chuck it off as a learning curve, now when Miss Grandma runs over ur blower, then she can buy you a new one.

Accidents happen, newspaper boy now runs a telemarketing company.


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## E-Town (Mar 11, 2018)

Mr.Markus said:


> Are we talking about one of these shutoff valves...
> 
> View attachment 198453
> 
> ...


Exactly that with 2 inch out of the ground  , Will ask her to call the city to fix it.



1olddogtwo said:


> Years ago, I sued the pants off the newspaper delivery boy for damage to my blower.
> 
> Through arbitration, we agreed he wouldn't delivery the paper til after snow operations were complete.
> 
> ...


You got it  lol


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

Mr.Markus said:


> Are we talking about one of these shutoff valves...
> 
> View attachment 198453
> 
> ...


Buy a bag of ready to use asphalt at Home Depot, pour it over the valve, and shape it into a nice smooth bump that the plow will ride over.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

should have seen it when you bid the job and made a note, take it to the dealer, tell him what you did, pay the bill and carry on, going to be a long winter


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mr.Markus said:


> Are we talking about one of these shutoff valves...
> 
> View attachment 198453
> 
> ...


Correct to a point... if it dont go, dont force it. Some telescope some do not. Some have to be dug around and lowered by re threading. When we use those types, trade practice is to install a coupling and a nipple about 6" to 12" below grade to allow changing of the nipple to lower it.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

E-Town said:


> You guys are something LOL. Thanks to all for their input appreciated.
> 
> I can clearly now see Both side point of view about this issue i had and this is why i was asking your though about it.


Just trying to help you understand how it is in the real world.

When something happens to your equipment while you are using it to turn a profit... asking a property owner to pick up the tab for your negligence is not commonly acceptable.

Yes there are special cases that asking them to pick up the tab is ok... most professionals would agree your case is not one of them.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

I have seen guys trying to hammer the shutoffs down until water starts flowing out the top . Then you have to dig down to the water line to repair .


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

1olddogtwo said:


> Years ago, I sued the pants off the newspaper delivery boy for damage to my blower.
> 
> Through arbitration, we agreed he wouldn't delivery the paper til after snow operations were complete.
> 
> ...


And pat, he doesn't plow any more, he tells stories of it...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SHAWZER said:


> I have seen guys trying to hammer the shutoffs down until water starts flowing out the top . Then you have to dig down to the water line to repair .


You were there for that too??? Which guy were you?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> You were there for that too??? Which guy were you?


The one hammering...


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

30 years operating excavators , have seen and done a lot of weird and wonderful stuff .....


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SHAWZER said:


> 30 years operating excavators , have seen and done a lot of weird and wonderful stuff .....


 Ditto.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

I think your on your own with the machine. If it was just a piece of steel someone threw in the driveway I would agree the client could be responsible. That's a utility in the ground, technically you should have known it was there.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

SHAWZER said:


> 30 years operating excavators , have seen and done a lot of weird and wonderful stuff .....





FredG said:


> Ditto.


You guys are old...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SHAWZER said:


> 30 years operating excavators , have seen and done a lot of weird and wonderful stuff .....


Well if you're hammering with the excavator it's no wonder you broke the line...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mr.Markus said:


> You guys are old...


 Probably over 30 years for me.  :laugh:


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

FredG said:


> Probably over 30 years for me.  :laugh:


So ancient is more appropriate!?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> So ancient is more appropriate!?


Antique...


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Antique...


When water shut off was take the pails off the oxen...


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## E-Town (Mar 11, 2018)

Heading to the dealer this morning to get a new belt and will change it  . Working tomorrow seems like snowing crazy here right now.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Where are you located ?


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Mr.Markus said:


> You guys are old...


I sometimes feel a day older every day .....


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## E-Town (Mar 11, 2018)

SHAWZER said:


> Where are you located ?


Edmonton, AB, Canada .

When Jasper Mountain get hit with 15 - 20 Centimeters , we get the rest most of the time lol. 3 - 5 centimeter on our forecast but could easily turn to 7 - 10 centimeters depending of the area Like last time few days ago. At least its dry snow no more wet **** like in november lol.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

E-Town said:


> Exactly that with 2 inch out of the ground  , Will ask her to call the city to fix it.
> 
> You got it  lol


Have her tell the city somebody tripped over it.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Had a client 2 years ago thought he would help me out by putting those 1" flat steel sheets over his pot holes. He put 3 or 4 down without notifying me. Broke a trip spring after I hit the first one, going too fast. The thought of making him pay for it never even went through my mind.

After the storm I called him to ask him where they were originally placed so I could put them back. He told me he thought he was doing me a favor so I wouldn't hit the pot holes he hadn't had a chance to fix.

Point is, people don't understand what an "obstacle" is most of the time. If they can run it over, they assume you can too. This guy, I'm sure, paid a lot of money trying to solve one problem, and instead made a new one.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

SHAWZER said:


> I sometimes feel a day older every day .....


What did you say, my 8 track was turned up real loud.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

i would have him look at the machine, he may see something you dont


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## Indycorp (Oct 24, 2015)

Randall Ave said:


> What did you say, my 8 track was turned up real loud.


LMAO BAHAHAHA


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## Indycorp (Oct 24, 2015)

JMHConstruction said:


> Had a client 2 years ago thought he would help me out by putting those 1" flat steel sheets over his pot holes. He put 3 or 4 down without notifying me. Broke a trip spring after I hit the first one, going too fast. The thought of making him pay for it never even went through my mind.
> 
> After the storm I called him to ask him where they were originally placed so I could put them back. He told me he thought he was doing me a favor so I wouldn't hit the pot holes he hadn't had a chance to fix.
> 
> Point is, people don't understand what an "obstacle" is most of the time. If they can run it over, they assume you can too. This guy, I'm sure, paid a lot of money trying to solve one problem, and instead made a new one.


Homeowners "Helping" is always a PIA.


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