# 2022-2023 Winter Season Bid Prices



## AJLandscapeServices (5 mo ago)

Good Morning all fellow snow plowers, I am contacting you all this morning on the community portal to state one simple fact & ask for your help & assistance regarding the cost increases we will incur this upcoming winter season. Fuel has increased (as of today) 55% from last winter & all materials are much higher than we are usually used to. I received a bid from a large corporation this morning (I won't say who), but they are trying to get us to commit to last year's pricing. This is NOT right; we have to stick together & make sure we at least get our cost increases covered in our 2022-2023 bids. If we start accepting these bids at these low amounts, or at last year's pricing, we are going to be screwed. Basically, I am asking for us all to come together & make sure we implement an increase across the board on all of our bids to ensure we cover our costs & don't go bankrupt by mid-season. Does anyone agree? What are your thoughts? How do we get the word out to the new & very young companies? Please assist & chime in. I'd really like to hear what you all have to say about this.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Customers can _ask_ for whatever they want. If they want to ask for you to drop your price 25% from last year, that's their prerogative. Just like it's your prerogative to decide whether or not you laugh at them for it.

Edit: Oh, and technically colluding with competitors to raise prices is called price fixing and illegal. But don't worry, I know that snitches get stitches.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

What's our union number again?


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## AJLandscapeServices (5 mo ago)

Yes, I understand. I am just trying to spread the word, that if we accept same pricing as last year, we will lose our shirts & it's not a good trend to start. It only takes a couple contractors to accept this & then the rest of us either have to follow, or decline the bid. And some of these bids are customers we've been working with for years, so it's upsetting & frustrating. 

Also, I think I didn't word some of my original post correctly, I'm not fixating or asking for everyone, or anyone to increase at a certain percentage for price gouging, or telling anyone to increase period, I'm just trying to spread the word, please at least cover your costs. This year I've seen the largest increases in 2 different industries that I've been managing & own for 15 years, these increases are big hits & they need to be passed down to the end user, the contractor shouldn't take the hit. How can you stay in business if you absorb these types of increased costs? From my research so far, it sounds like ice melt & salt suppliers are increasing their products around 25%, labor has increased (depending on the company & state, my state is high becuase they raised min. wage so high) & diesel fuel as of now has increased 55% at least in western mass where it stands today from last winter season. I am just asking contractors to be careful & consider the cost increases we're seeing across the board. Awareness & warning contractors that if they don't account for these costs, they can put themselves in a very bad situation. I don't know how many jobs we've had to take over because the contractor under bid the project & had to walk off the site once they realize they don't have enough funds to finish the project. I just don't want to see the same thing happen for plowing this season.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

I would ask unnamed customer if their merchandise prices are the same as last year


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

cwren2472 said:


> Customers can _ask_ for whatever they want. If they want to ask for you to drop your price 25% from last year, that's their prerogative. Just like it's your prerogative to decide whether or not you laugh at them for it.
> 
> *Edit: Oh, and technically colluding with competitors to raise prices is called price fixing and illegal. But don't worry, I know that snitches get stitches.*


huh; learn something new every day..... and I thought that was called being in a union!


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I would ask unnamed customer if their merchandise prices are the same as last year


And operation cost too.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

theplowmeister said:


> huh; learn something new every day..... and I thought that was called being in a union!


It isn't - anti-trust laws apply to competing businesses, not to employees.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

AJLandscapeServices said:


> Fuel has increased (as of today) 55% from last winter & all materials are much higher than we are usually used to. I received a bid from a large corporation this morning (I won't say who), but they are trying to get us to commit to last year's pricing. This is not right.


Your math is a bit fuzzy. As of today fuel is up one dollar…Not 55% higher from last winter. Deicer costs are not much higher than what we are used to. Maybe you haven’t been doing this too long? Depending on what year in the past you want to refer to, those costs have been either lower, higher, triple, quadruple and/or through the roof if you can even find it.

Your prospective client can ask for whatever they want. So can you. Sucks to want. Know your numbers and stay competitive, or you can guess at it and think you know what you’re doing. You’re in your own pond. You can collude (or rather discuss pricing) through your own network. You can’t really scale that though.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

AJLandscapeServices said:


> Basically, I am asking for us all to come together & make sure we implement an increase across the board on all of our bids to ensure we cover our costs & don't go bankrupt by mid-season. Does anyone agree? What are your thoughts? How do we get the word out to the new & very young companies? Please assist & chime in. I'd really like to hear what you all have to say about this.


The issue is that no company goes out and deliberately _tries_ to work at a loss (unless they are a startup burning through investor seed money but that probably doesn't apply here) - the problem is business owners who don't know how/can't be bothered to figure out their costs and base their pricing by creating threads on internet forums asking "How much do I charge for this?" (hypothetically)

They then hope that at $X/hr, /job, /inch, /whatever they are then profitable in the end. Fingers crossed.

If you figure out a way to fix that, I'm sure everyone on here would be all ears.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

AJLandscapeServices said:


> I am contacting you all this morning on the community portal


Huh?



AJLandscapeServices said:


> I received a bid from a large corporation this morning (I won't say who), but they are trying to get us to commit to last year's pricing.


If you received a bid, wouldn't that make YOU the customer? 

I receive bids from vendors. I provide bids to customers.



AJLandscapeServices said:


> This is NOT right; we have to stick together & make sure we at least get our cost increases covered in our 2022-2023 bids. If we start accepting these bids at these low amounts, or at last year's pricing, we are going to be screwed. Basically, I am asking for us all to come together & make sure we implement an increase across the board on all of our bids to ensure we cover our costs & don't go bankrupt by mid-season. Does anyone agree? What are your thoughts?


Well, #1 I believe in a free market, so my competition is free to do whatever they want with pricing as am I. And the customer can choose whichever service provider. 

But, for me, I do agree.



AJLandscapeServices said:


> How do we get the word out to the new & very young companies?


You just did. And while I wish it were different, I would hope that these young companies are managed by someone with a slight sense of bizness sense. Looking at large, well established companies, I know this isn't true. And I know that a lot of small, young companies are owned by operators/technicians that have a desire to own their own bizness. 

So again, call it the free market, call it tuition at the school of hard knocks, whatever you want. If they can't figure it out, the free market reigns and they go out of bizness. 



AJLandscapeServices said:


> It only takes a couple contractors to accept this & then the rest of us either have to follow, or decline the bid. And some of these bids are customers we've been working with for years, so it's upsetting & frustrating.


That's life with the big dawgs.

I'm going to do some assuming here. You received a request from an NSP to accept the same pricing as last year. You are concerned other contractors are either too stupid or have huge egos to feed or both that they will accept that pricing. And you will be "forced" to do the same. 

You aren't forced to do anything. We still live in a somewhat free country. Go get your own work instead of relying on some idiot in an office that has never seen snow except for TeeVee and wouldn't know a plow from a blower or a sander from a spreader. Stop relying on others to get your customers. And then be locked into someone else's pricing. 

Is my assumption wrong? 



AJLandscapeServices said:


> I don't know how many jobs we've had to take over because the contractor under bid the project & had to walk off the site once they realize they don't have enough funds to finish the project. I just don't want to see the same thing happen for plowing this season.


Why not?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> or a sander from a spreader.


Wait, there's a difference?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I've decided that I'm going to start setting my new plow prices by creating a thread on here and asking everyone "What's a fair price to pay for a new plow?"

I can't see any way that will backfire.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

cwren2472 said:


> I've decided that I'm going to start setting my new plow prices by creating a thread on here and asking everyone "What's a fair price to pay for a new plow?"
> 
> I can't see any way that will backfire.


can you lower your price? 
I have to drive for a few hrs to get to your store?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Hydromaster said:


> can you lower your price?
> I have to drive for a few hrs to get to your store?


Sure but only cuz you're a swell guy


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Wait, there's a difference?


Only in the commie NortEast.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

Luther said:


> Your math is a bit fuzzy. As of today fuel is up one dollar…Not 55% higher from last winter. Deicer costs are not much higher than what we are used to. Maybe you haven’t been doing this too long? Depending on what year in the past you want to refer to, those costs have been either lower, higher, triple, quadruple and/or through the roof if you can even find it.
> 
> Your prospective client can ask for whatever they want. So can you. Sucks to want. Know your numbers and stay competitive, or you can guess at it and think you know what you’re doing. You’re in your own pond. You can collude (or rather discuss pricing) through your own network. You can’t really scale that though.


depends where you are at, last year diesel and gas hung around $3, was over $5 a month ago and has dropped $.50 so it may not be 55% but is a chunk of money for running plow equipment


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Luther said:


> Your math is a bit fuzzy. As of today fuel is up one dollar…Not 55% higher from last winter. Deicer costs are not much higher than what we are used to. Maybe you haven’t been doing this too long? Depending on what year in the past you want to refer to, those costs have been either lower, higher, triple, quadruple and/or through the roof if you can even find it.
> 
> Your prospective client can ask for whatever they want. So can you. Sucks to want. Know your numbers and stay competitive, or you can guess at it and think you know what you’re doing. You’re in your own pond. You can collude (or rather discuss pricing) through your own network. You can’t really scale that though.


Fuel is up about $1.62 from the installation of Biden.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Does everyone here roll through the corner gas station to fuel their trucks and equipment? Do you not realize how much money you’re leaving on the table? I suppose those who don’t have a real shop with fuel cells (that buy their fuel in quantity) will always be at a disadvantage to those that can scale their operation where it counts.

Same goes for your deicers. If you can’t buy it early and in quantity, and have the ability to store it you will always be at a disadvantage to those who can.


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## 97BlackDiesel (Dec 2, 2016)

Luther said:


> Does everyone here roll through the corner gas station to fuel their trucks and equipment? Do you not realize how much money you’re leaving on the table? I suppose those who don’t have a real shop with fuel cells (that buy their fuel in quantity) will always be at a disadvantage to those that can scale their operation where it counts.
> 
> Same goes for your deicers. If you can’t buy it early and in quantity, and have the ability to store it you will always be at a disadvantage to those who can.


Unfortunately some of us have to. I guess I should charge more so I can buy fuel cells. Although for a one man operation I think I did pretty well for a light season.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

97BlackDiesel said:


> Unfortunately some of us have to. I guess I should charge more so I can buy fuel cells. Although for a one man operation I think I did pretty well for a light season.


You don’t need to buy them, the fuel company gives them to you free as long as you do business with them.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Luther said:


> You don’t need to buy them, the fuel company gives them to you free as long as you do business with them.


that's how ours is as well, Crystal Flash, well they say it's priced in the fuel, although the fuel (rec 89) is still cheaper than at a station.


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## magnatrac (Dec 22, 2006)

BossPlow2010 said:


> that's how ours is as well, Crystal Flash, well they say it's priced in the fuel, although the fuel (rec 89) is still cheaper than at a station.


Curious what the price is? I still buy rec at the gas station. I only use it in the hand held equipment and my boat. 
Last week it was $5.12 per gallon.


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## 97BlackDiesel (Dec 2, 2016)

Luther said:


> You don’t need to buy them, the fuel company gives them to you free as long as you do business with them.


Sign me up


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

magnatrac said:


> Curious what the price is? I still buy rec at the gas station. I only use it in the hand held equipment and my boat.
> Last week it was $5.12 per gallon.


I’ll let you know, but in early June this is what it came out to be (minus state/ federal taxes) its like 5.45 a gallon getting fuel today, a couple fills ago, this was the total.


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## TwiceStroked (Feb 8, 2010)

cwren2472 said:


> Customers can _ask_ for whatever they want. If they want to ask for you to drop your price 25% from last year, that's their prerogative. Just like it's your prerogative to decide whether or not you laugh at them for it.
> 
> Edit: Oh, and technically colluding with competitors to raise prices is called price fixing and illegal. But don't worry, I know that snitches get stitches.


And end up in Ditches


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## TwiceStroked (Feb 8, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Only in the commie NortEast.


Its the Socialist NE, especially here in ny, "take from and give to" NM who's gonna pay 4 it!


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I’ll let you know, but in early June this is what it came out to be (minus state/ federal taxes) its like 5.45 a gallon getting fuel today, a couple fills ago, this was the total.
> View attachment 254105


What's a Mustafa fee?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

cwren2472 said:


> What's a Mustafa fee?


File question…



Mark Oomkes said:


> Some bullcrap tax to cover the cost of cleaning up others leaking tanks.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> File question…
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 254230


Show your w-



Oh.

Dang it, apparently I read that too.


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