# Hydraulic Power



## Rat_Power_78 (Sep 16, 2008)

My searching has turned up no definite answer-what affects hydraulic power, specifically lifting capacity on a loader? Case in point: My New Holland 3045 has a loader rated at a depressing 1900 pounds at the pins, but an aftermarket Westendorf loader recomended for this tractor has nearly double the lift capacity at less pressure than my machine puts out. In theory, both loaders would be powered by the same source, same flow, and same pressure so why can one handle more than the other? Can there be that much difference in cylinder size to make the difference? Or am I missing something?


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Rat_Power_78;1436867 said:


> My searching has turned up no definite answer-what affects hydraulic power, specifically lifting capacity on a loader? Case in point: My New Holland 3045 has a loader rated at a depressing 1900 pounds at the pins, but an aftermarket Westendorf loader recomended for this tractor has nearly double the lift capacity at less pressure than my machine puts out. In theory, both loaders would be powered by the same source, same flow, and same pressure so why can one handle more than the other? Can there be that much difference in cylinder size to make the difference? Or am I missing something?


 Could be just how they are built. I would worry more about how much weight your tractor could carry, you wouldn't want to break something. They could be limiting the one loader with some type of pressure relief. These are just all guesses. :salute:


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

Geometry, cylinders, etc play a HUGE role in capacities. Also do they use the same method of rating? Hard to believe the one would be rated at twice the lifting capacity, you sure the one isn't lift capacity and the other is tip load?


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## tread lightly services (Jan 8, 2012)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1437198 said:


> Geometry, cylinders, etc play a HUGE role in capacities. Also do they use the same method of rating? Hard to believe the one would be rated at twice the lifting capacity, you sure the one isn't lift capacity and the other is tip load?


i second this....even a half inch of cyl diameter increase can mead a substantial increase in lifting capacity.

also they could have the pressure relief turned way down on your unit...

most skid loaders relief at 1900 -2500

some of the higher ones go to 3000-3250

and yes make sure you are comparing rated capacity,

or tip capacity...not one to the other.


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## Rat_Power_78 (Sep 16, 2008)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1437198 said:


> Geometry, cylinders, etc play a HUGE role in capacities. Also do they use the same method of rating? Hard to believe the one would be rated at twice the lifting capacity, you sure the one isn't lift capacity and the other is tip load?


This is a link to the Westendorf site for the loader they recommend: http://www.loaders.com/userdocs/products/175.pdf

And here's the one to New Holland's specs (mine has the 260 loader):
http://agriculture.newholland.com/u...-Series-Tractors/Pages/products_techinfo.aspx

***Disclaimer***
I do not plan on changing anything right now, partly because I'd rather not void the warranty and partly because I dont want to exceed the capacity of the unit. At this point, I am more interested in the theory of how it works. I am just using this tractor as a real-world example to try and understand.

The ratings "at the pin" are drastically different. NH rates it at 1955; Westendorf at 3020/3690 depending on system pressure. This particular tractor was tested by the dealer to put out 2450 psi (spec is 2500). The dealer also put some weights on it and tested it's capacity. They tell me it is doing everything it should.

Moving out from the pin is where it gets a bit confusing. NH lists their ratings as being "500mm [19.7"] in front of pin" while Westendorf gives a rating of "actual working capacity-31.5" in front of pin." Again, huge difference, with Westendorf besting NH by 1000 pounds+.

It seems odd to me that there can be that much difference between the two. Once again, I dont plan on doing anything that would over-stress this machine or endanger the operator, machine, or anyone nearby. I guess its more of a quest for knowledge than anything and I hope someone out there can help me out.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

By looking at the two it looks like you are comparing the New Holland at MAX lift, if it had a rating at 59" like the 270 does it's about 1000lbs more. That's probably how the Westendorf is rated, that's my guess.


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## Westendorfmfg (Dec 19, 2008)

To clarify a few of the theories listed above, which are all areas that will affect the capacity of a loader, there are a few I'd like to mention. 

Nicholas and plowed are correct, Cylinder Size is huge - going from a 2" to a 2-1/2" lift cylinder on this particular loader increases the lift capacity by 800# . Also notice the angle and position of the cylinder, it has a lot to do with the power the loader can output. 

We also take great care when we design mounting brackets, every tractor is trucked into the factory, measured and fitted with a loader to match the tractor's OEM ratings. We position the loader as far back as possible on the the tractor so you can get more leverage and keep the load close the front of the tractor. We show 24" reach from tires to the bucket ... NH is listed at 33" - which moves the load nearly 10" further from fulcrum, decreasing the lift capacity of their loader.

Kimber750 also hit a valid point.... There ARE also considerable differences in how our loaders are built - mainly the use of a double tapered arm which allows us to position the steel where it needs to be for strength. This allows us to make a loader that weighs less, yet is stronger than the typical non-tapered style arm like the NH loader. This allows you to carry "more payload" rather than a heavy loader around limiting your lift capacity. This design method allows you to have a higher lift capacity WITHOUT having to worry about straining the tractor or overpowering the macine. When the lift capacity and loader package weights are added together they will not exceed the front axle rating of the tractor.

Capacity for these compact loaders are measured at the and 500mm from the pin @1850 and 2200 psi - once you get into the larger ag loaders the measurement becomes the 31.5" as mentioned in the post. All our capacities are rated "at the full height" of the loader - the ACTUAL working capacity both at pin and front edge of bucket (19.5" or 500mm). 

The 175 is a great loader - a real workhorse positioned at the top of the compact series. It will do whatever you need it to and more. Adding an aftermarket loader should not void your warranty as long as it adheres to the OEM specifications... Don't compare loader capacity to loader capacity... consider loader package weight and lift capacity to the front axle rating of the tractor. 

Hopefully this has bring clarity to a confusing subject... 
WESTENDORF MFG. CO., INC.
Since 1934


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