# 277 Cat with Tracks?



## 08F3506.4L (Jan 7, 2008)

I have found a good deal on a newer 277 Cat with tracks. I have never used one before, I have heard they do OK with a 10' box but have no proof. What do you guys think? By the way I love the site and look foward to hearing your thoughts!

Stuart


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## jeff45 (Jan 28, 2006)

i dont have experience with that particular machine, but from what ive read track machines arent as good in the snow because they float on top of it rather that dig to the pavement. i also think i read that most people recomend a 8' box for them.


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## Plowfast9957 (Feb 14, 2005)

Like Jeff said I think you would be better off with an 8 footer. The 10 would be fine in lighter storms. The mall I plow at runs a 277 and 287 with 8's.


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## pwrstroke6john (Nov 30, 2007)

I would say a track machine would work just fine, but a 10 footer may be pushing the limit, also for the summer months a track machine will cause much less damage on turf then a skidsteer


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## jkrak (Nov 11, 2007)

Trax are a no-go! What you need is less tread area on the concrete which gives you more ground pressure. Tall and thin tires with an aggressive tread is the only way to go. It is a custom fit for the skidsteers, new rims, tires etc.


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## RipT (Dec 6, 2004)

The CAT/ASV machines are generaly better on snow than other track machines, but the opperative word is "snow"....they are poor on ice or any serious slopes/hills. Narrow, aggressive (even studded)snow tires are then best so long as high-centering is not an issue. Chained-up regular SS tires work pretty well also.


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## 08F3506.4L (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the information. Now I have to decide if its worth it. We have trucks with 9'2"s. How much faster if any is a skid steer is the question.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

been thinking that awhile myself...


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

the 277 is a good machine, is it a "A or B" series? IMO the "A" were the best of the bunch and we have had several and now we have a "C"

we use 246's because you can get them in 2spd and we use 7-8' angle blades and sometimes they get "overwhelmed" with that so the 10 footer may be a little much....but if it comes with the machine they have aparently used it with it before and it may work just fine?

YOU HAVE TOO WATCH THIS YOUTUBE VID(if anyone know's how to post a vid. be my guest)

this is with a rc-50 so that would be like a cat 247.





this is with a machine more comparable to the 277





some one please post these vid's

EDIT: i think i got it..thanks snofarmer


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

The heaver machine
combined with slow track speed will win every time.


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

08F3506.4L;490783 said:


> Thanks for all the information. Now I have to decide if its worth it. We have trucks with 9'2"s. How much faster if any is a skid steer is the question.


i didn't even see this q' earlier sorry.

it is totally dependant upon application.

if you have some smaller comm.s and resi's the SS will be sooooo much faster.

if you have large comm's you'll be unhappy with it

we take care of a wal-mart and the Skid steer's only "curb" and clean up but they are a very vital tool

we use a toolcat on the sidewalks which is also really neet but we don't put it in the lot.....although we should since we charge by the hour LOL


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

SnoFarmer;491033 said:


> The heaver machine
> combined with slow track speed will win every time.


the rc-50 is only a 50hp and is 3000lb less than the t-250 

i don't know why it is out pushing the bigger machine?


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

Heavier slower track speeds wins every time?

I have an ASV RC 50 just like in the video above. It weighs in at 5500 lbs. A T250 weighs in at something like 8500 lbs. So which is heavier?

I can tell you for a fact that my machine WILL push an 8 ft pusher with no problems.
That being said, I do spin out on Icy inclines. But who doesn't?

I have said it many times on this site that its all in the tracks. If you have an open style track (Like bobcat or takuchi) They wont get as much traction and will just spin out.

A closed or tight type track (ASV/Cat) Will give you more traction. It shows it in the above video.

I will agree that a narrow tired skid loader will out push most other machines. But as for a track machine in the snow you just can't beat an ASV/Cat.

Its funny how these guys are saying that the track machines float over the snow.. I don't see how when you are scraping with a tool in front of the machine. The floating is when you are backing up. lol

So I say go for it. Buy the 277. You will not be dissapointed.

Peterbilt


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

Also.

My skid loader stays in a neighborhood where I have 5 condo associations and 2 commercial accounts.

Condo Associations are all long buildings with garages under the decks where we have to do lots of back draging, The commercials are pretty open with a small amount of back dragging

I Use an 8 ft pusher with a pull back blade on it. 

We did 4 of these accounts last year with 2 trucks. It took 2 to 4 hours Depending on the snow, or cars in these lots.

So heres the difference. I can do all 7 accounts in 3 to 5 hours with 1 machine Vs, 2 trucks 4 accounts 2 to 4 hours. 

So I think in this situation you can't beat a skid loader.

peterbilt


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## MJM Landscaping (Mar 19, 2005)

I have heard from a couple of my buddys that run track loaders in the winter: The bobcat and takeuchi and deere tracks are too narrow with lugs that are too big and hard to be efffective on the snow. As with the cat asv style they go alot better. Maybe being wider so more track is on the pavement. One of my buddys tried a 8 ft box on a takeucki and it wouldnt push much at all. Watching that video makes total sense.


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## 08F3506.4L (Jan 7, 2008)

thanks for all the help! Now I will have to decide if its worth it. I do not have any condo's, all my accounts are commerical retail stores and banks. Thanks for all your help.

Lake Effect Snowplowing LLC
Stuart Postema


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## TL697 (Jan 19, 2008)

I own a CAT 257B, and it works great except for solid ice, but even rubber tires and chains struggle on ice...

Today, I was cleaning up a prospective account that hasn't seen a plow all year. I was scraping up 2-4 inches of ice and packed snow. Stuff that you can't even touch with a truck w/ plow... I had to use my reg bucket, but I had no problems.

The CAT/ASV tracks are the best, hands down...

You won't be dissappointed...


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## KCAPXIS (Jan 7, 2006)

Last year I had to rent to Cats...a 277B and a 287B for two events that left us over 15" of snow each time... Same HP just that the 287B is a little bit heaver,, these machines will go up. over and through any thing white or frozen.. the only problem is that they are single speed machines... I was so impressed that we got a new 287B at a cost of 50k installed a Blizzard 8611 in it for this year... 

the track pattern on the Cat/ASV are unlike any one else's and will hands down out push any other skid-steer. tracks or wheels.


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## A Man (Dec 24, 2007)

That's a pretty bold statement, I'm running an S250 with the same plow, I'm pretty happy with the traction after the new tires, but I would love to see some pics of even video of the cat pushing a full blade right threw the middle of a nice sized windrow. I ran a cat track loader on some hard pack ice a year ago and I wasn't impressed at all, but I would love to see it in action!


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## 08F3506.4L (Jan 7, 2008)

Well I did some calling around and an old boss has a few of the 277's and he is willing to rent for $50.00 per hour. What do you guys think about that? Is it a fair price?

Lake Effect Snowplowing
Stuart


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

08F3506.4L;491508 said:


> Well I did some calling around and an old boss has a few of the 277's and he is willing to rent for $50.00 per hour. What do you guys think about that? Is it a fair price?
> 
> Lake Effect Snowplowing
> Stuart


well to say the least THAT SOUND'S HIGH.

even if it's including fuel.....i think the machine burns at MOST 4gal per hour so that's ~$10-12

it don't sound to me like the guy is helping you that much or doing you any favor's


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## 08F3506.4L (Jan 7, 2008)

Sorry I forgot... what are you thoughts on having a straight blade vs. a pusher box on that Cat? It is going to be at a family fare with alot of long pushes. It takes us 4.5 hrs. with a 9'2"Boss if that helps. I just want something that is as fast, its a per hour job but I would like to free up that truck sooner.


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## A Man (Dec 24, 2007)

I would have to agree, I rent a new holland backhoe for $30 a clock hour, I put the fuel in but he insures it. Market might be different down there, I also rent a bobcat s185 for $800 month, unlimited hours. Just food for thought.


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

$50 an hour? Better get out a driver cause your getting screw'd! just go rent one from a dealer that has a winter rental plan. I am renting a wheel loader for $1200 per month. I got it in late november and will take it back in march. 

As for a blade or a pusher. Any time you can push mass amounts of snow acroos a lot = Time saved. So if thats what you want get a pusher. You should be able to handle a 10 footer with out to many problems. But its not just the machine its the operator. A good operator will know the limitations of a machine and work around them. Anybody else will just beat it to death and complain that the machine isn't working right.

I can go on and on about skid steer Vs. Truck but what good will that do. So good luck.

Peterbilt


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## jjtmarineb2 (Dec 17, 2007)

I'm not by any means an expert on the subject, but why couldn't you get some very short studs to put on the tracks? That would help out on the ice/hardpack stuff. I used to put very small sheet metal screws (with hex-heads) in the soles of my work boots in the winter so the heads acted like studs. This worked awesome! Just remember to take them off before you step inside!! :salute:


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## TL697 (Jan 19, 2008)

jjtmarineb2;491579 said:


> I'm not by any means an expert on the subject, but why couldn't you get some very short studs to put on the tracks? That would help out on the ice/hardpack stuff. I used to put very small sheet metal screws (with hex-heads) in the soles of my work boots in the winter so the heads acted like studs. This worked awesome! Just remember to take them off before you step inside!! :salute:


I thought about that the other day... for my CAT 257B

I thought about using (2) 1/2" sheet metal screws on every 4th or 5th track lug...

I was just worried about the effects on the track integrity as well as removing the "studs" if the heads were to shear off...

I may try it though... I'll post pics and results...


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

Adding "Screws or Studs" Will more than likely Void out your Asv/Cat Track warranty. 

Asv/Cat tracks have a 1000 Hr warranty. That is as long as you don't purposly alter the tracks. Not to mention they have some other weird rules to the warranty that we won't go into now.

I am not sure what the warranties on the other Brands are.

Peterbilt


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

Peterbilt;491601 said:


> Adding "Screws or Studs" Will more than likely Void out your Asv/Cat Track warranty.
> 
> Asv/Cat tracks have a 1000 Hr warranty. That is as long as you don't purposly alter the tracks. Not to mention they have some other weird rules to the warranty that we won't go into now.
> 
> ...


i've never heard of a track or tire warranty with the acception of failure, which would be tread seperation or track tear but that would be limited to track tension.

i know there is now track or tire abrasion warranty, even on a 2 million dollar 994 the tires are not protected against rock abrasion

i would say the studs would be fine but they wouldn't last too long. regular tire or track studs are carbide


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

Thats right. Warranties against track failure. Adding Studs (In the eyes of a Manufacture) will speed up track failure.

Like I said the other warranty issues that I didn't want to get into.

By the way. powerJoke. Hows your C Series working out? I have been looking at them a bit, But the price is out of my range.


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

Peterbilt;491648 said:


> By the way. powerJoke. Hows your C Series working out? I have been looking at them a bit, But the price is out of my range.


mmmm........not so good.

the c's are NOT pilot controll they are electric/servo and they have a heck of a time with response speed,

altough i do like the new cab, the new loader design(visibility), glass front door, cloth seat AIR RIDE SEAT:bluebounc, creep controll, and so many of the other creature comforts the added but they took away from the hyd pilot controlls

we go through a bunch of machines as we try to keep them a little lower houred but we have had one "A" model get bought back by CaT and one "B" model get bought back(lemon) and we waited on this "C" for over 1yr

here is a pic of the "C"....that beast ripped the bucket up


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

Why do people always want to mess up a good thing? Getting rid of the old pilot controls? Thats just crazy. I had a new Bobcat S220 with "Pilot Controls". It was a nice machine but I completly hated the darn lag time from control movement to machine responce. 

I do mostly finsh work in tight, established areas (Existing residential - Existing commercial turf areas) So I normally am running half throtle and slower ground speed. With the old style I fell I have total control in what I am doing. With the new style, I feel like I am going to crash into things. It seems that with the new style you need to be at full throtle to get it to be as responsive as an older style at ANY engine speed.

Do you feel this way about yours?

Peterbilt


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## TL697 (Jan 19, 2008)

powerjoke;491888 said:


> mmmm........not so good.
> 
> the c's are NOT pilot controll they are electric/servo and they have a heck of a time with response speed,
> altough i do like the new cab, the new loader design(visibility), glass front door, cloth seat AIR RIDE SEAT:bluebounc, creep controll, and so many of the other creature comforts the added but they took away from the hyd pilot controlls
> ...


Good to know... I won't have a machine w/ Electric-over-Hydraulic controls... Wonder why they would change that? The hydraulic pilot controls are the best thing that ever happened to Skidsteers and Compact track loaders... Guess I should hold on to my 257B...


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

TL697;491905 said:


> Good to know... I won't have a machine w/ Electric-over-Hydraulic controls... Wonder why they would change that? The hydraulic pilot controls are the best thing that ever happened to Skidsteers and Compact track loaders... Guess I should hold on to my 257B...


personally i think why they changed it was for a few reasons

the rates are selectable now. say if you have a fresh operator you can slow the machine speed way down ie. bucket and boom

the air seat floats up&down at least 6" and in time the hyd lines may fail ( the controls float with the seat now, they are not affixed to the flooe)

patern changer is a freebie now

that being said.. i don't like it but the machine itself is alot better just the operation of it sucks

are they even making 257 C's yet? i didn't think they were?

p.s. the new mini-ex's even have an angle blade on them......so change is hapening everywhere


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## IceManMN (Jan 14, 2008)

*re:277 cat*

hey......as far as the 277w trax. They are like anything else, as far as ups and downs theyre like anything else. Personally i run one and would never change for anything but the new 2 speed (or larger model) but i dont need larger. We run a 9' plow this machine will stack snow to the sky if you do it right. If your on snow youll be able to drive ON TOP of your pile up right. your also able to put snow far behind the curb (way in the grass) without messing up any grass. granting your not plowing the ground (thats a given) . We use a heavy duty plow (unknown brand) and are able to put enough weight on it to be able to cut through the toughest packs. Yes they do tend to slip around but i dont think any more than a wheel machine. more rubber on the ground more tracktion!? The cat also has a floor foot throttle that makes it nice to set the throttle med. so if you are slipping just let go of gas peddal and the throddle still set to med you wont tend to stop back up and make a better run (low rpm still push no slip) this usually only needs to be done when we are cleaning up and its icy. thats my two sence its a cadillac compaired to anything else. Ilso i have driven a large variety so i not just compairing to one retailer. It also depends what you do also. If you just plow snow with it your probibly want to go with the 247b. Still nice but i have never used that spacific model in the snow good in the dirt though.... hope this helps.
P.S. the pilot controls are Fast vs.bob,case,jd. ifeel scared sonetimes how fast they are. also no having so hold 2 sticks back and turn back if youve spent enough time backing up you know what i meen


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## IceManMN (Jan 14, 2008)

*re:277 cat*

hey......as far as the 277w trax. They are like anything else, as far as ups and downs theyre like anything else. Personally i run one and would never change for anything but the new 2 speed (or larger model) but i dont need larger. We run a 9' plow this machine will stack snow to the sky if you do it right. If your on snow youll be able to drive ON TOP of your pile up right. your also able to put snow far behind the curb (way in the grass) without messing up any grass. granting your not plowing the ground (thats a given) . We use a heavy duty plow (unknown brand) and are able to put enough weight on it to be able to cut through the toughest packs. Yes they do tend to slip around but i dont think any more than a wheel machine. The cat also has a floor foot throttle that makes it nice to set the throttle med. so if you are slipping just let go of gas peddal and the throddle still set to med you wont tend to stop back up and make a better run (low rpm still push no slip) this usually only needs to be done when we are cleaning up and its icy. thats my two sence its a cadillac compaired to anything else. Ilso i have driven a large variety so i not just compairing to one retailer. It also depends what you do also. If you just plow snow with it your probibly want to go with the 247b. Still nice but i have never used that spacific model in the snow good in the dirt though.... hope this helps.


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## TL697 (Jan 19, 2008)

powerjoke;491936 said:


> personally i think why they changed it was for a few reasons
> 
> the rates are selectable now. say if you have a fresh operator you can slow the machine speed way down ie. bucket and boom
> 
> ...


Since moving to CO, I noticed a significant decrease in power w/ my 257B... I would like to upgrade to maybe a 287B... I use my machine for more than snow removal. I have a BH30w backhoe for it and dig footings, basements, general grading, etc.

Maybe I'll test drive a 287C and see what the deal is...


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## sofdchief (Jan 21, 2008)

Well, i know i am new to this site, but just a little word of wisdom on this topic. Since Earth work is my business, we have a very extensive knowledge of tracks (both big and small). The biggest "problem" with track drive skidsteers is that they are NOT designed for use on hard surface (ie. pavement/concrete). Constant use on these surfaces will cause pre-mature track wear.....and believe me....you DO NOT want to be putting tracks on these things often. Also, depending on who is driving it....if you run on hard surface, you really shouldn't "skid" steer these units.....again...pre-mature track wear, and yes, you can throw a track as well. 

As far as the capacity with a 10' blade.....I don't know, as we do not plow with these units. We plow strictly with wheel loaders.

Just my $0.02....hope it helps.


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