# how much do you pay your snowplow drivers.



## monsterport

I have 3 plow drivers that have been at my company for 8 years plowing. They have the experience for all my commercial accounts. I currently pay them $9.75 -$10.50 an hour that is with no unemployment. They come back every year and seem happy. I was thinking about giving them a little more. What do you guys/gals think?


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## Italiano67

I would say you have been doing extremely well with paying that amount. Around here I would not get any reliable help for that money. I would say a nice raise should be in order for your guys.


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## erkoehler

$15-24/hr here


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## monsterport

Is that $15-24 with unemployment for your employees? I was thinking about maybe $13-14 an hour with no unemployment.


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## CGM Inc.

payup:salute: 10.50 is below minimum wage up here......


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## hydro_37

we pay at least $15......no unemployment and no guarantee of hours


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## cet

I know times are tough every where but you mean to tell me people get out of bed in the worst conditions to work for $9.75. I would be embarrassed to pay that.


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## monsterport

cet;1097755 said:


> I know times are tough every where but you mean to tell me people get out of bed in the worst conditions to work for $9.75. I would be embarrassed to pay that.


yes, they get out of bed at 1am or when the snow hits. Three of the employees live 25 miles away too. Is it really that bad?


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## Italiano67

Would you do it?


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## MatthewG

That's pretty bad....


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## snocrete

monsterport;1097775 said:


> yes, they get out of bed at 1am or when the snow hits. Three of the employees live 25 miles away too. Is it really that bad?


Are these people legal citizens of the USA?


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## dmontgomery

They are nuts.......I pay my guy $20........no guarantee of sure......


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## monsterport

don't make much


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## ABES

cet;1097755 said:


> I know times are tough every where but you mean to tell me people get out of bed in the worst conditions to work for $9.75. I would be embarrassed to pay that.


My thoughts exactly


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## Pushin 2 Please

WOW. My guys are getting a pay cut. They make $20 - $30 an hour to drive one of my trucks. I couldn't find help, for wages like that!


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## dgc

Are guys get 30.00 there own vehicles. 13.00 in ares


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## motoxguy

I don't know what is more of a slap in the face $9.75 an hr. or $30.00 an hr. for someone beating the **** out of there own vehicle for you, but if you get people to work at that rate more power to you. In our area I've found it pretty hard to find good experienced people that are willing to get out of bed at what ever time and that are efficient unless they are getting $20.00/hr and if running their own truck 60 - 65 per hr. debating on blade size.


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## proscaper

truck driver get $20, equipment operaters get $20-$25, even our newbie shovelers make $15


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## purpleranger519

Sidewalk/shovlers - $15-$18 per hour

Drivers - $20-$30 

1 driver makes $35 and runs the show when myself or my OM aren't around 

My operations manager is salary, but if we have over 10 events I throw more money in with his bonus.


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## cold_and_tired

My shovelers make at least $15 an hour. I pay operators $20+ an hour.


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## ALLABOUTSNOW

WOW $9.75 I think thats what they make flippn burgers where it is toasty warm. over here. You can all ways tell the difference between the east coast and us mid westerners. There guy that is getting paid $ 30 buck and hour with his truck, is a 1984 Bronco with a 7"6" Meyer with regular ole Liability Truck insurance.


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## gtstang462002

All of my guys are working my CTL or ATV(sidewalks) are getting $20 an hour but they rotate through the equipment because the CTL has heat compared to the ATV that doesn't. It keeps it fair for them I think. There is no guarantee of snow for them though.


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## JohnnyRoyale

Wow!!! That explains why trucks with plows are getting $35 an hour down there.

My machine operators get anywhere from $25-$35 an hour, salt truck drivers are anywhere from $20-$25 an hour, pickup plow drivers and walkway guys are anywhere from $18-$25 an hour. Some have guaranteed hours paid to them regardless if they work or not, others get standby pay plus an hourly wage, some get a higher hourly wage with no standby, and my fulltime guys are salaried.


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## monsterport

well I guess it is different here in Michigan and Ohio. I pay my newbie shovelers $9 /hr and drivers $9.75-11.


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## dmontgomery

I am in Ohio


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## ALLABOUTSNOW

$15.00 bucks an hour for a shoveler and $18 to 20 for the Crew Driver, $ 25 for drivers and Skid steer drivers.
Maybe thats how those guys are charging 25 to 40 % less


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## DirtyJerzey

Shoveleres get anywhere from $15-$20 any hour, if they hustle like hell, and really perform I usually end up throwing a bit more money at them. Sadly most of them never notice the pay increase. Drivers of my vehicles anywhere from $25-$35 an hour depending on experience.


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## NWPAfarmboy

You are in a tough position and one I have been in on my farm operation. I atleast give you credit for two things: 1. being concerned over your guys enough to ask this questions and 2. to be able to retain quality workers for 8 years. You mu8st be a decent guy to work for. We pay our part-time farm help these wages, but there are times when they are standing around and we feed them also. If we have someone we can not give a raise to once or twice a year-there is a problem with their performance. I have gone the route of giving two many raise and as one person here said they really stopped caring. They could go flip bugers or push carts, but that's not what they want to do. We found a bonus works best sometimes. Give a a big check at the end of season. That way it does not increase the varible cost of doing business. It might be hard to hand out those checks at the end of season, but well worth it when you see the appreciation. We have also had years when we had major repairs and profitably succked. Bonus went down. Never had a complaint. Most of my helpers have one or several bad habits. I also got alot for the investment after a rough week by buying them a caron of cigs, a case of beer, or a roll of snuff. Small gesure, but the most appreciative part was thery realized I paid enough attention to them to know their brands. That and the free food, eaten together as a group, have been my best investments. I would push the pencil and do a combination bewteen added perks and $,


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## NWPAfarmboy

Sorry about that last post. My keyboard is acting up when I type fast. I really do have an IQ over 60. An added plus, I just found spell check on here.


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## LunchBox

We pay pickup drivers $20 hour, $25 for operator, and $30 for six wheeelers and skidsteer operators


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## Dlongerman

shovelers $15 skid operators $20-$25 companies truck drivers 20-30 "sub" $60-$80


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## MahonLawnCare

$13.00 per hour for drivers and 10.00 per hour for shovelers + unemployment


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## JPK

our shovelers get $15 drivers and operators range from $20-$30


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## purpleranger519

MahonLawnCare;1099074 said:


> $13.00 per hour for drivers and 10.00 per hour for shovelers + unemployment


So what your saying is they are drawing unemployment and then you are paying them cash, under the table????


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## gtstang462002

purpleranger519;1099171 said:


> So what your saying is they are drawing unemployment and then you are paying them cash, under the table????


You can work a part time job and draw unemployment. You just get less $$$ in your unemployment check.


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## Doom & Gloom

I get no less than $50 per hour including travel time with my equipment.


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## Kodiakguy

$15 an hour, no min, our truck. $35 to $60 an hour if its a sub ($60 if you have a 10 foot blade and are good). Clock starts when you arrive on the first site and stops when you leave the last, we don't pay for breakdown time, coffee breaks at McDonalds, fueling your truck (sub) ect. We also pay seasonal flat rate to one sub, but he has been loyal to us and is a top notch guy. We negotiate the seasonal rate each year, this year were thinking of giving him a end of season bonus.


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## JD Dave

Kodiakguy;1099587 said:


> $15 an hour, no min, our truck. $35 to $60 an hour if its a sub ($60 if you have a 10 foot blade and are good). Clock starts when you arrive on the first site and stops when you leave the last, we don't pay for breakdown time, coffee breaks at McDonalds, fueling your truck (sub) ect. We also pay seasonal flat rate to one sub, but he has been loyal to us and is a top notch guy. We negotiate the seasonal rate each year, this year were thinking of giving him a end of season bonus.


You hiring? LOL


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## Matson Snow

JD Dave;1099660 said:


> You hiring? LOL


:laughing::laughing:...I sure hope TCLAs not reading this thread or Im SCREWED!!!


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## shooterm

$10/hr is what all the landscaper/lawn mowing companies in this area pay help. Most of the snowplowing outside independent guys is these companies. Its not a outrageous price if you account for your local payscale.


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## cat272c

i was thinking of puting in an ad for drivers 15--20 to start if i did that should i look for retired guys or guy that want extra hours because i cant seem to find any one reliable to help made more money would get beter


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## ajslands

You should look for guys with expirence and pay them more than 15-20 per hour unless they're using your equipment.


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## Kodiakguy

JD Dave;1099660 said:


> You hiring? LOL


LOL, Thanks Dave:waving: We have a good old fashon work ethic and expect the same from our guys. We expect high safety, high quality, and high production. We always try to be up front, frank, and fair with them, and expect the same in return. I must say, we keep expectations high for ourselves and our guys. We are a team and treat them like family. Happy workers make happy customers. Happy customers pay their bills and keep coming back. We pay it forward the the people who help make it happen.

Buy the way, I was thinking of joining SIMA. If I mention you do I still get a free jacket? LOL


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## JD Dave

Kodiakguy;1099886 said:


> LOL, Thanks Dave:waving: We have a good old fashon work ethic and expect the same from our guys. We expect high safety, high quality, and high production. We always try to be up front, frank, and fair with them, and expect the same in return. I must say, we keep expectations high for ourselves and our guys. We are a team and treat them like family. Happy workers make happy customers. Happy customers pay their bills and keep coming back. We pay it forward the the people who help make it happen.
> 
> Buy the way, I was thinking of joining SIMA. If I mention you do I still get a free jacket? LOL


Sure do. Have a good winter.


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## samjr

*Jd whats the pay in ONT*



JD Dave;1099896 said:


> Sure do. Have a good winter.


just looking around i see alot of this ask for the us but none in canadatymusic


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## Oshkosh

*Back when*

I was running my own equipment $20 per hour per operator, 1099 at end of season and it was up to them what they did from there...
That was back in the 90's/2001 before I got out.
Mind you these where larger highway rigs...


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## Brant'sLawnCare

I pay plow drivers between $12-20/hr in my trucks. Shovelers/blowers I pay between $11-14/hr. Usually pay everyone for a minimum of 6 hours. Those quick nights are the ones we make the most money, so a minimum helps get things done fast and keeps the workers happy. I know my shoveling rate is a little low, but they are riding in the truck between jobs for doing residential. I will be paying more to guys working at a condo this winter. They will be outside for a few hours at a time.


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## 4700dan

monsterport;1097727 said:


> I have 3 plow drivers that have been at my company for 8 years plowing. They have the experience for all my commercial accounts. I currently pay them $9.75 -$10.50 an hour that is with no unemployment. They come back every year and seem happy. I was thinking about giving them a little more. What do you guys/gals think?


WHAT! if that is all are holding out taxes also or are they being paid like a sub contractor


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## Jguck25

I see a lot of people commenting about what they pay hourly for sub-contractors, but what if the person is not being paid hourly? They are plowing some driveways for you, but also have some of their own places to plow, what would you be paying them for a percentage?

IE they are plowing ten peices of property for you, which totals say 500 per push one push per place. (Made up numbers, just easy numbers for an example) What would you pay them for a percentage? Somewhere around 80% so $400?


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## Bozcat Boss

Hey greetings from Canada. Someone was asking about wages up here. I start our level 1s (hand staff so to speak, blowers and shovelers) at $14. My level 2s ( JD 2305 and skidsteer ops) start at $16. My L3s (truck drivers start around $18) All they do is move equipment, haul snow and bring fuel. That is with full deductions for ei and income tax and what not.


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## Big Daddy

We are in Ohio...as well.. and in all fairness.. if we as professionals wish to retain a level of professionalism in this industry and eliminate the lowballing, the low bidders and the cheap quailty labor... we must strive to adhere to higher guidelines and more stringent efforts to pay our help a salary/wage contingent to mainstream professional USA. I find it simply sad... to pay someone so low of a wage... $10 per hour... regardless of unemployment or not.. simply is not doing our industry justice. We are just as frugle as others in this line of work and strive to save $ where we can.. But, I often feel, hire quality help, quality equipment, pay them well, pay them fairly and you have a recipe for success.

Secondly... I always seek to treat the employees we have like family... I would never pay my family... I hire my nephews for summer help and pay them (highschoolers) better wages than that... Sorry.. don't mean to sound harsh but we are seeking to hold a higher standard in our company. We used to feel like you...cheaper wages, etc.. But, after doing this a few years.. we think in order to weed out the competitors who are low balling, cheapening the skills of this industry.. we are striving to obtain a higher level of service... which means more training, more affiliations with professional organizations and that does not allow us to pay sub-standard industry wages.

Wife of Big Daddy


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## TPC Services

$15 for shoveler's, $20 for a crew leader, $25 for snowblowers using their own, $15-40 for ATV's depending if you're running ours or your own, $20-$25 for Operators an sanding truck drivers, an $60 for subs plow operators, got to keep your shoveler's an Sdwk guys happy otherwise u'll all ways be looking for new ones , who the hell wants to come out to shovel for $10 an hr in 10 to -20 below wind chill NO ONE, *I started off in this industry with a snowblower in my hands it's no fun!!. *I remind this to all my subs an operators when they come *****ing to me about a shoveling crew, I tell them get your butt out there an do their job an see how long u'll last!!


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## mnsnowfighter

*whats the cost??*

Are you contractors paying them $15 on up through pay roll or you pay straight cash, I can see paying $20-$25 in cash but if they are pay-rolled with all the taxes there is no way you could make any money paying those wages. How do you guys do things?


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## mscincbus

You are on track with me - Central Ohio


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## Kale Lawn

we're getting 70% of our normal hourly rate, $10.50 for myself, guaranteed 40 hours every week from Thanksgiving - April 1st, plus over time if we get a **** ton of snow and we also have full benefits..pretty much "salary" thru the winter. If it doesn't snow.. we stay home and still get paid on call 24/7 as well


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## Rain Man

I wouldn't take a dump for 10.50 an hr. and the only truck that I would sub out for $30 an hr. would be my kids Tonka truck. I Pay $20 an hr. and a dollar a year raise.


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## Plow Babe

Big Daddy;1102516 said:


> ... *if we as professionals wish to retain a level of professionalism in this industry and eliminate the lowballing, the low bidders and the cheap quailty labor... we must strive to adhere to higher guidelines* and more stringent efforts to pay our help a salary/wage contingent to mainstream professional USA. I find it simply sad... to pay someone so low of a wage... $10 per hour... regardless of unemployment or not.. simply is not doing our industry justice. We are just as frugle as others in this line of work and strive to save $ where we can.. But, I often feel, *hire quality help, quality equipment, pay them well, pay them fairly and you have a recipe for success*.
> 
> Sorry.. don't mean to sound harsh but we are seeking to hold a higher standard in our company. We used to feel like you...cheaper wages, etc.. But, after doing this a few years.. we think *in order to weed out the competitors who are low balling, cheapening the skills of this industry.. we are striving to obtain a higher level of service... which means more training, more affiliations with professional organizations and that does not allow us to pay sub-standard industry wages.*
> 
> Wife of Big Daddy


WELL SAID!

Wages vary by region, but for a professional plowing company hiring competent and experienced help, my opinion is that the wages should be in line with local skilled tradesmen, not low-to-minimum wage. How much do journeymen employees in the trades make in your area?

We hire only legal employees, and pay them with a legitimate payroll, taxes withheld, etc. Only employees, only our equipment, period.

Burger-flippers who can't speak English make $10+/hour here. I would never put a person of that skill category into a $60,000 piece of equipment and turn them loose. We pay a wage in line with the expensive resort area we are in, and give a bonus at the end of the season based on hours worked and level of performance. We don't have a guarantee of hours, but we do pay overtime and holidays, and take them to breakfast on plow days. A shoveler makes less than an operator, but as several commented above, they're outside at 3 AM in the freezing weather working their butts off, that's worth paying them more than a burger-flipper can make.


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## acornish

When i was in NJ and had my plow buisness mind you it was 4 yrs ago. I paid my back up driver for other truck 25 an hr and my 2 shovelers 15 an hr and that was cash off the books.


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## buckwheat_la

we pay our shovellers $13-14 / hour, and our equipment drivers $17-20 /hour depending on experience


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## crawla

The company I subbed for the past 3 years payed 85/ hour from start to finish. I have a F350 with an 8.5 straight blade.


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## Wayne Volz

*Keep it fair*

We pay our guys their regular salary all year long. Works well for them and us from a budgeting standpoint.

Don't get too creative on paying without withholding. One disgruntled employee can get you in a big problem really fast. I am not suggesting that anyone is doing this the wrong way, but it is a whole lot easier keeping it clean all the way, than cleaning up a mess later.


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## james1115

HOLYYYYYYY!!!!!! I would never come back again if I got paid those rates! I pay my guys $15-20 just to shovel, $30 to drive my truck and $45 to drive theirs. That is cash also, all green!


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## Luther

....which makes you not legit.



Who needs to be dishing out those pesky workman's comp payments anyways....right?


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## nekos

Reading threw this thread really opened my eyes on how many scrubs and lowballers are on this site. 

If you can't pay some one in YOUR truck $25 + and still make a sizable profit... You're a lowballer / scrub. 

If you can't pay a sub with their own equipment $75 + and make a sizable profit... You're a lowballer / scrub.


(side note)
For any of the sub contractors and employee / drivers out there that read this. Don't work for these ridiculous wages. Look else where for a real snow removal company or just do some thing else more profitable. Sooner or later the scrubs will close up shop and the real snow removal companies that charge and pay their employees properly will come out ahead.


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## highlander316

my other plow driver gets $30/hour and sidewalk guys $15 (I'm gonna bump the sidewalk leader's up thou). Really thinking about implementing the policy I saw on here (if you show up to every stormt, extra $x/hr bonus at end of season). I think they will really appreciate that, and it's not gonna hurt me to give that to them (especially to show that I care).

There's a guy here that's paying subs $40/hour. I know a couple of the subs, and they have nice trucks/plows. I'm just like damn, I wonder what the subs are making after their expenses (if they bother to figure it out)?


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## buckwheat_la

nekos;1109182 said:


> Reading threw this thread really opened my eyes on how many scrubs and lowballers are on this site.
> 
> If you can't pay some one in YOUR truck $25 + and still make a sizable profit... You're a lowballer / scrub.
> 
> If you can't pay a sub with their own equipment $75 + and make a sizable profit... You're a lowballer / scrub.
> 
> (side note)
> For any of the sub contractors and employee / drivers out there that read this. Don't work for these ridiculous wages. Look else where for a real snow removal company or just do some thing else more profitable. Sooner or later the scrubs will close up shop and the real snow removal companies that charge and pay their employees properly will come out ahead.


I want to live in your world, $25/hour with u supplying the equipment. $75/hour on someone else's equipment. Well the going rate around here is $75/hour from the client/customer so that would mean I would make 0 money subing it out.


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## bigthom

my guys start at 12 to 15 in our trucks. in their own trucks anywhere from 30 to 50 depending on responsibilities and experiance


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## nekos

buckwheat_la;1109258 said:


> I want to live in your world, $25/hour with u supplying the equipment. $75/hour on someone else's equipment. Well the going rate around here is $75/hour from the client/customer so that would mean I would make 0 money subing it out.


I understand the different markets and prices fluctuate from area to area. The thing is there is a point. where it becomes not profitable. At least for subcontractors. If i were making less then $75 an hour it would be totally pointless for me to be out there. I could make more money doing drive ways at $20 a pop. Hell i could make more money doing them now and i make a lot more then $75 an hour.

As for driving company equipment, we are out there in the worst weather. Were on call 24/7. We don't get sick days or I'm to drunk to show up for work days. We are out there regardless of the situation or were fired. Now to put up with all that B.S for $10 - $15 an hour, please. I use to make almost $20 an hour delivering pizza.


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## nekos

bigthom;1109264 said:


> my guys start at 12 to 15 in our trucks. in their own trucks anywhere from 30 to 50 depending on responsibilities and experiance


You can't even cover your operating costs as a sub at $30 an hour.


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## KMBertog

highlander316;1109255 said:


> my other plow driver gets $30/hour and sidewalk guys $15 (I'm gonna bump the sidewalk leader's up thou). Really thinking about implementing the policy I saw on here (if you show up to every stormt, extra $x/hr bonus at end of season). I think they will really appreciate that, and it's not gonna hurt me to give that to them (especially to show that I care).
> 
> There's a guy here that's paying subs $40/hour. I know a couple of the subs, and they have nice trucks/plows. I'm just like damn, I wonder what the subs are making after their expenses (if they bother to figure it out)?


We have the attendance policy in place here. You have to show up every storm and have a perfect record (no accidents, no knocking mailboxes over, damage to truck, etc... anything that can be considered "at fault") and you get a bonus at the end of the season.

Keith

www.bertoglandscape.com

follow us on facebook: Bertog Landscape Company


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## james1115

TCLA;1109177 said:


> ....which makes you not legit.
> 
> Who needs to be dishing out those pesky workman's comp payments anyways....right?


not true my friend! I pay workmans comp on all of my full time and (true) part time employees. As far as plowing goes if my employees plow in my trucks or shovel they get paid $15-$25 per hour on the books. As far as guys using their own trucks they are hired as sub contractors, given a 10-99 and are required to carry their own insurance so how I pay them doesnt matter in the slightest! I give them cash, they are happy about it and how they handle their taxes is not my problem and has nothing to do with the legitness(if thats a word) of my company.


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## Luther

I stand corrected. Wouldn't have known based on this........



james1115;1109169 said:


> I pay my guys $15-20 just to shovel, $30 to drive my truck and $45 to drive theirs. That is cash also, all green!


Cash is typically under the table sir.

Not that I have anything against cash......


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## Bird21

I started in the trenches driving a two wheel drive 1 ton with a salter in High School getting $17.00 per hour, well that was 19 years ago. I have done everything that I ask my employees to do, so I respect the duties they have and pay them well for doing so. Out all night in the elements swings a shovel is worth at a minimum 15.00 per hour.

Operating a vehicle or machine that is worth from 20,000 to 100,000 is well worth 25.00 or more. We take great care of our equipment and want our employees to do the same, so we pay them well to do so. The better you treat employees the better job they will do for you. I know some bad apples will ruin that, but our retention is 95% and damages to our equipment has been more from wear and tear than operator abuse.

I have them get their hands dirty getting equipment ready so they understand what it takes to keep up a fleet. Every piece is powerwashed, painted as needed, lubed, fluids changed needed or not, and right down to windex on all glass nothing is overlooked. I pay them to do this and they obtain a sense of pride knowing that they will be in a clean, serviced, and snow ready piece of equipment.

Just my take on this subject but it has worked for 15 plus years so far.


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## nekos

Bird21;1109806 said:


> I started in the trenches driving a two wheel drive 1 ton with a salter in High School getting $17.00 per hour, well that was 19 years ago. I have done everything that I ask my employees to do, so I respect the duties they have and pay them well for doing so. Out all night in the elements swings a shovel is worth at a minimum 15.00 per hour.
> 
> Operating a vehicle or machine that is worth from 20,000 to 100,000 is well worth 25.00 or more. We take great care of our equipment and want our employees to do the same, so we pay them well to do so. The better you treat employees the better job they will do for you. I know some bad apples will ruin that, but our retention is 95% and damages to our equipment has been more from wear and tear than operator abuse.
> 
> I have them get their hands dirty getting equipment ready so they understand what it takes to keep up a fleet. Every piece is powerwashed, painted as needed, lubed, fluids changed needed or not, and right down to windex on all glass nothing is overlooked. I pay them to do this and they obtain a sense of pride knowing that they will be in a clean, serviced, and snow ready piece of equipment.
> 
> Just my take on this subject but it has worked for 15 plus years so far.


You sound a lot like the guy i work for. He takes care of his employees and he has a line out the door of new ones begging to get in. Sadly the lowballers are running rampant in my area and it's only a matter of time before wages start getting cut to stay competitive.

I wish sub contractors, employee / drivers and equipment operators would think a little. If we stop working for free the true lowballers and scrubs will have to raise prices accordingly or simply go out of business. It's to bad there are so many people that can't even add up simple operating costs to run 1 truck.

OK sorry for another rant on this subject. lol


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## kdlandm

It is amazing how pay rates vary from region to region. In the Chicago market $20-$30 per hour cash driving our equipment is a standard. It also depends on reliability and experience. Some of my main salt truck operators make more.


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## monsterport

$15 is just way too much, how does anyone make money? 12-15 hours straight then about 2-3 hour break then back out again for another 12 hours @ $9/h shovelers $13/h and not a penny more for plow drivers. (3-8 years experience)


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## NPMinc

I agree that the OP is paying WAYYYYY low. However, as others have said prices are a very regional thing. For the record I pay my shovelers,who are considered temp employees(w-2's and all) 15/hr to start,1-1/2 OT over 40/week etc. Guys who have been with me for a few seasons make more. My drivers and operators(who are full time year round guys for my landscape/property maint side) make 2x normal pay rate which for most = 25-30/hour and ot eligible. I start my subs at $65/hour for a pickup with 7.5' or 8' and go up from there. All are paid from arrival on jobsite or meeting place untill dismissed from final job. I also have around 15 small residentials that I give to a guy with a snowblower and he keeps 80% ,I get 20. Most have been with me for a few years so must be ok. I also pay a bonus to all who made every call out, did good work etc at end of season based on a %of total pay. According to nekos these rates would make me a lowballer/scrub. Question for you---have you ever bid a job in my area or do you know the general going rates around here or in the regions others are talking about? Also do you know the overhead my subs or myself have to say we are/aren't making a profit?


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## monsterport

$65 - $85 for subs here....most comapanys pay $18-20 for drivers here. Guess i'm lowball scrub and I don't give bonuses for being safe and doing a great job? Sometimes I don't even have a shoveler/snow blower with some of the drivers they can get out and shovel the walks and plow the site for $9/h.


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## bub3020

it definitely varies by region, i wouldnt even ask somebody to work for less than $20 here. they would laugh at me!


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## jgoetter1

My most experienced guy driving my equip gets $25/hr. Other less experienced guys get $12-15/hr.


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## NPMinc

Nekos, in one of your earlier post in this thread you state you make "alot more then $75/hr" as a sub. Please explain this as far as what equipment you have, where you're at etc. Please tell me its more then a pickup with a 7'6'' or 8' plow. I am aware of guys who make more then 75 subbing but they offer more than just a truck and small plow......like v-box salters etc. Even still the only guys I know who are making "alot" more then $75/hr are those who are supplying and operating their own loaders etc.


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## paponte

Pickups $15-$20hr Six wheelers with spreaders $20-$30, same with machine operators. Dam I pay my guys more than $10.50hr to cut grass!


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## BMB Plowing

wow, at first I thought you were joking monstersport. I literally wouldn't even get out of bed for 9.75 an hour or even 10.50.....for PLOWING!? Either you have really great loyal guys, or they don't know what they are missing out on. Those guys being there for 8 years, should be making upwards of $30 an hour, no less. Giving them a LITTLE more? I would at least double what they get now, for a start. My first year in a plow truck 6 years ago I was getting $15 an hour, now I'm getting $22 an hour and that's only because I just started at a new company.
$13-$15 should be the MINIMUM for starting plow drivers out, anything less is just low balling your employees.


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## Maleko

NPMinc;1150278 said:


> Nekos, in one of your earlier post in this thread you state you make "alot more then $75/hr" as a sub. Please explain this as far as what equipment you have, where you're at etc. Please tell me its more then a pickup with a 7'6'' or 8' plow. I am aware of guys who make more then 75 subbing but they offer more than just a truck and small plow......like v-box salters etc. Even still the only guys I know who are making "alot" more then $75/hr are those who are supplying and operating their own loaders etc.


In defense of Nekos.

I get $80.00 per hour for just my truck and a 8'xblade. i have a sander but do not use it for the lots i get subed at. it is mostly condos. and all ihave to do is drive around and keep it open. they have bobcats that do all the garage areas etc.. they push it out to me and i keep it moving.

i also carry my own insurance Liability as well as all my equipment..

about 4 years ago the pay was around $65.00 per hour for your own truck. like i said now i get $80.00
I know a few who get $100.00 for a reg dump dually with a sander. yes they are using the sander at this price, but not paying for salt..


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## NPMinc

Maleko, I was referring to his comment that he makes ALOT more then $75/hr. Yes im aware that there are those who do in certain markets, however I was wondering what he brings to the table that he can get those kind of rates. As I said in my prior post the guys who make more then that in my area typically are guys who bring more then just a p/u with a plow. The only ones making ALOT more are the guys with the loaders or some other type of special equipment.


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## monsterport

BMB Plowing;1150762 said:


> wow, at first I thought you were joking monstersport. I literally wouldn't even get out of bed for 9.75 an hour or even 10.50.....for PLOWING!? Either you have really great loyal guys, or they don't know what they are missing out on. Those guys being there for 8 years, should be making upwards of $30 an hour, no less. Giving them a LITTLE more? I would at least double what they get now, for a start. My first year in a plow truck 6 years ago I was getting $15 an hour, now I'm getting $22 an hour and that's only because I just started at a new company.
> $13-$15 should be the MINIMUM for starting plow drivers out, anything less is just low balling your employees.


nope I am dead serious. All the time 10 hours 2 hours sleep then another 21 straight hours. (same guys no shift changes) All the shovelers/snow blowers make $9 an hour and I know which ones I can ask to go out for more that won't say no to me. I was paying my drivers $7.50-9 an hour plowing.(5 years ago) Now, just recently 2 years ago they asked for a pretty big raise to make $12-$13 an hour and some have 8 years of experience plowing/salting.


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## Flawless440

I'm in Columbus and have no idea how ur getting away with that. I guess ur guys havent seen the job offers on C List. I Pay $13-$15, and thought everyone else dose to. But if ur getting away with it do it. Snow money around here is like blood money. Every one has a truck and cant bid


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## Maleko

NPMinc;1150896 said:


> Maleko, I was referring to his comment that he makes ALOT more then $75/hr. Yes im aware that there are those who do in certain markets, however I was wondering what he brings to the table that he can get those kind of rates. As I said in my prior post the guys who make more then that in my area typically are guys who bring more then just a p/u with a plow. The only ones making ALOT more are the guys with the loaders or some other type of special equipment.


AHH.... Ok.. I see what you are asking now...

Ya i guess he would have to define "ALOT"


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## snorider075

shovel crew $20hr subs from $70-$90 pending yrs with us. $30-$35 driving salt route truck


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## milkie62

When I worked for someone driving his truck,I made 20% of whatever I plowed.When I used my truck I made 80% of what I plowed.I was happy with that.


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## BMB Plowing

Flawless440;1151714 said:


> But if ur getting away with it do it. Snow money around here is like blood money. Every one has a truck and cant bid


YEAH, that's a great attitude to have.


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## wannabeplowing

Im the newest full time guy at the company I work for and all of us full time employees are salaried, my pay is $1400/month before taxes. So when it's not snowing it great but the hourly pay decreases quick when we are putting a lot of hours. I'm not complaining it's really nice to know that check is there no matter the number of hours I work. But in regards to the original post $9.75-$10.50 is pretty low for a driver, our shovelers get paid $11-12/hr starting.


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## Rain Man

wannabeplowing, if my math is correct, your only making $8.75hr. Full time is 40 hrs a week, times 4 weeks in a month equals 160hrs a month, $1400.00 Salary divided by160hrs = $8.75 an hr. Not very good!!!! Unless you mean you get paid $1400 every week or every two weeks!!!!!


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## proscaper

1400/month is less than unemployment, assuming a 40hr work week thats $8.75 hr. Seems like a pretty sweet deal for the guy writing the checks


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## monsterport

Rain Man;1153067 said:


> wannabeplowing, if my math is correct, your only making $8.75hr. Full time is 40 hrs a week, times 4 weeks in a month equals 160hrs a month, $1400.00 Salary divided by160hrs = $8.75 an hr. Not very good!!!! Unless you mean you get paid $1400 every week or every two weeks!!!!!


That's like 15k a year after taxes and that is pretty damn good. Most our guys don't get more than 10k per year and they get OT with time in a half with no hours in the winter. Plus hes getting paid to do whatever he wants in the winter sitting on his butt.


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## Rain Man

The 2009 Poverty Guidelines for the
48 Contiguous States and the District of Columbia
Persons in family	Poverty guideline
1	$10,830
2	14,570
3	18,310
4	22,050
5	25,790
6	29,530
7	33,270
8	37,010


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## NPMinc

Just as a reference, I stopped in at a chain gas station/convenience store this AM after salting their lot and they had a sign saying they were hiring cashiers starting at 9.25/hr plus bennys. Gee let me see out in a storm freezin and working my rear off or sitting in a nice warm store, which would I rather do?


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## fatboyNJ

i cant belive that some people work for peanuts...
13 years ago when i was 15 i was making 15 an hour cash shoveling sidewalks 
my father has been making 100 an hour for the past 5 years as a sub with a 2500 and 7.6 blade, no shoveling no salting...just driving

i as well was making 100 an hour last season with a f150 and 7.6
guess NJ is a good state to work snow when it actually snows


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## NPMinc

fatboy you will find that the areas where snow is a more common occurance they seem to pay less, Im assuming its because they do the job more times a year. Don't know many small or midsized businesses or people who could afford to pay $300/push (just an example) when it snows a plowable storm seemingly at least once a week. That would add up to heck of a lot of $ paid for winter maintenance. I know around here in my part of PA we are lucky to have 3 or a good year maybe 4 "real" plowable events. Meaning all hands on deck 24+ hour events. We have several smaller events usually also but Heck we've only had 2 salt applications so far this season. Probably similar to in NJ where u are. So guess what im getting is your $100 is very nice but a guy who gets $65/hr in an area where it snows 10 more events a year is gonna be paid more then you in the course of the season. I think this is one of the reasons that rates are so different from area to area.


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## monsterport

We already salted 4 times this year and have about 4-5 decent storms 3"+ and about 30 salts per year. Is that a lot or less?


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## fatboyNJ

NPMinc;1153248 said:


> fatboy you will find that the areas where snow is a more common occurance they seem to pay less, Im assuming its because they do the job more times a year. Don't know many small or midsized businesses or people who could afford to pay $300/push (just an example) when it snows a plowable storm seemingly at least once a week. That would add up to heck of a lot of $ paid for winter maintenance. I know around here in my part of PA we are lucky to have 3 or a good year maybe 4 "real" plowable events. Meaning all hands on deck 24+ hour events. We have several smaller events usually also but Heck we've only had 2 salt applications so far this season. Probably similar to in NJ where u are. So guess what im getting is your $100 is very nice but a guy who gets $65/hr in an area where it snows 10 more events a year is gonna be paid more then you in the course of the season. I think this is one of the reasons that rates are so different from area to area.


yea i understand that....so far we are at no event pushing or plowing...
i work full time for my local DPW as my everday job and ill love to just get salting call ins instead of full pushes...its alot less stressful salting that dealing with plowing...imo

i guess im glad i live in NJ..i like the idea of big money for a few storms a year...even thou it owuld prob equal out whereever you lived in the country.

its all extra for me anyway since my main job in the DPW...i put a buddy in my truck and let them make me more money

good luck this year


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## Dog3

My snow employees are required to be available 24/7 virtually no exceptions, are all paid on the books, and use only my equipment. We work very hard and very safe and take no breaks during most snow events. Our accounts are very concentrated geographically with very little wasted travel time.

That being said, I pay my #1 man (10 yrs with me) $55/hr in a 2500HD with 9'2" V plow. With his productivity, he makes me $125/hr. gross. (my pricing is very competitive with others in the area-we just work harder and smarter) I pay him that well because I would have to hire two average employees in two trucks to do the work he does.

Other plow operator gets $35/hr.

Bobcat operator (10 yrs experience and very skilled) gets $35/hr.

Shovelers/snow blower operators get $20/hr.

I've been paying at this rate now for 5 years (no raises in that time).
No price increases either.

When I started in '94 I was paying plow operators $16/hr and shovelers $10.
FYI: we are located in South Central Wisconsin

Good luck this winter everyone!


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## jcmengel

It seems to depend on where you are located. I subcontract my truck and myself to the company I work for and get 60/hr. We do have minimums set up so the company and I both make out ok and keep customers happy for the most part. There are alot of variables to wages for snow removal efforts, but you must have reliable help that will get out of bed when its coming down!!


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## mmaddox

Our drivers get 32% of gross, regardless of if's a semi, or pick-up, or heavy equipment. Maybe that's cheating on the question, because the gross will vary on a number of things. It becomes more important to make sure the gross is correct. It also means that if the driver works harder and/or smarter, they, as well as everyone else makes more.


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## NPMinc

FatboyNJ....Good luck to you this winter also, maybe sometime soon the real white stuff will make it to us. Agree I love the salt only call outs too, none of the worry and headaches I get when my guys are out in the trucks abd equipment pushing snow, and can usually handle em easily with me and my full timers who are already on the clock, so no big payouts which makes the profits even better.

mmaddox how does that system work for you? I toyed with that idea in my head before but never was really sure how it would work out....mostly from my end as the owner of the company.


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## milkie62

I feel a percentage is the way to go.A hustler will make you more money and he also makes more money.I do a development with snowblowers at $25-30 a drive.My guys do 6-7 per hr.So that is a minimum of $125/hr gross.I pay half of what they do.It works for me and my guys are VERY dependable for what I pay.But also if they forget to do something they have to go back at their expense to make it right.Rest assured I do not have to check up on them.


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## Yarden of eden

One thing that I have found to work pretty nicely is to pay a base amt per hour and then I add three possible bonuses of $1 per hour monthly for these things, perfect attendance, not breaking my equipment, and not damaging property at my accounts. Works very well, keeps guys showing up and taking care of your stuff and your accounts.


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## monsterport

^ you are dishing out a lot of money. Our guys can plow 10-15 sites per hour with 4-5 trucks followed by salters at $10 an hour shovelers/blowers $9-9.50. No bonuses, they hustle are safe and if equipment breaks it's because of our poor maintenance.


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## milkie62

There is no way I would expect someone to work in a snowstorm for $10/hr.Would you do it ? Also shoveling is back breaking ,cold and sore the next day.Anybody that complains about no shows at 10 bucks an hr deserve what they get.


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## Yarden of eden

monsterport;1155448 said:


> ^ you are dishing out a lot of money. Our guys can plow 10-15 sites per hour with 4-5 trucks followed by salters at $10 an hour shovelers/blowers $9-9.50. No bonuses, they hustle are safe and if equipment breaks it's because of our poor maintenance.


Not really, I pay my guy $15 per hour plus the 3 bonuses, max is $18per hour, which is about average around here. It pays for itself by making it worthwhile to my worker to do a good job, show up every snow, and not beat on my truck. I think it's a no-brainer


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## Flawless440

BMB Plowing;1152455 said:


> YEAH, that's a great attitude to have.


Thanks for your input


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