# Pro tech v plows?



## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

so I'm re visiting this sidewalk bid from last year. It's a 4 foot sidewalk 6.5 miles long and 80% of it is right on the road in town. 4 lanes with center turning lane. So you can imagine that it gets lots of snow pushed onto it.

The guy who does it now uses a ventrac with a blower and it takes him forever and honestly doesn't get down even close to pavement.

Does anyone here use the pro tech v plow sidewalk plows on like a bobcat s70?

My thought would be to order a pro tech 60 and a 40. I could have one bobcat out front with the 60 with the blade near the ground or an inch off so it won't tear up grass. This should open the path wide enough for the 40 behind to have room (so it doesn't fall back in on itself)

The second skid would have the 40 and could scrape down to surface.

I would also have a truck on the lane alone the sidewalk catching spills onto the road.

Does anyone that owns one feel like this would work? It would be around 9k for the 2plows so I would like other options.

Am I overthinking it? Will the snow roll back on itself that bad? With it being a 48 inch walk I would like at least 40 inches of it clear. Some rollback would be ok.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

That sidewalk must pay a pretty penny to have two skids and a truck onsite to do them...


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

Could you just add a simple manual 5’ back blade (so you can angle it to 4’) to the one skidsteer that has the 60 Protech in it?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Not sure why I'm doing this...but for starters, assuming you could make the numbers work (which I doubt you will) why wouldn't you start with the narrower blade to open up, find the edges, etc then run through with the wider one to clear to the pavement (which you will either end up breaking stuff using a steel edge or won't clear to pavement using a rubber or urethane edge)???

The guy with the Ventrac and blower probably is taking less time than it would for you tying up 3 pieces of equipment and manpower. 

I hate to be negative, but this math is just as bad as your math for liquids at WallyWorld.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not sure why I'm doing this...but for starters, assuming you could make the numbers work (which I doubt you will) why wouldn't you start with the narrower blade to open up, find the edges, etc then run through with the wider one to clear to the pavement (which you will either end up breaking stuff using a steel edge or won't clear to pavement using a rubber or urethane edge)???
> 
> The guy with the Ventrac and blower probably is taking less time than it would for you tying up 3 pieces of equipment and manpower.
> 
> I hate to be negative, but this math is just as bad as your math for liquids at WallyWorld.


It takes him about 12 hours to complete the job. He makes $1,250 per inch of snow. They only call him to do the job if it snows 3 inches or more.

The point of the wider plow first is too not touch the ground or grass but to give the following plow room for the falloff.

Last year his total income was about 23k and we had a slow winter.

Again with the Walmart...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Can I ask exactly how much experience (years, equipment, personnel, etc) you have in snow and ice management? Not how many acres you're clearing. How many routes\crews and for how many years. 

PS I knew I shouldn't have responded, but I am trying to help.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Can I ask exactly how much experience (years, equipment, personnel, etc) you have in snow and ice management? Not how many acres you're clearing. How many routes\crews and for how many years.
> 
> PS I knew I shouldn't have responded, but I am trying to help.


I have been plowing commercially for 11 years have 3 trucks and own 2 skid steers with 8foot box plows.

I also own a very large pressure washing business and I'm a member of a forum for that. Much more active on that forum and I know your type. Your going to question and belittle everything I post because I'm not a regular with a fancy title under my username. I'm not oblivious. I am also not stupid and I know my numbers game.

Do you own a pro tech v plow?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Your going to question and belittle everything I post because I'm not a regular with a fancy title under my username.


Actually, you don't know me. It has nothing to do with post count or title. For crying out loud, I've been trying to help.



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Do you own a pro tech v plow?


No...I'm out before I'm told to get out.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

I asked for folks that own these to speak out. I have no idea how what you said (really just questioned and criticized) was helpful. 

Thus why I asked if you own one. 

And for the record even on the other thread with the exception of one comment nothing you posted was either helpful or on topic. 

I’m no longer going to banter with you on the forum. Like the other forum I’m on when a “new guy” argues with a vet they get ignored by all. That is not my intent with this forum.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> It takes him about 12 hours to complete the job. He makes $1,250 per inch of snow. They only call him to do the job if it snows 3 inches or more.
> 
> The point of the wider plow first is too not touch the ground or grass but to give the following plow room for the falloff.
> 
> ...


On 3" of snow...Based on 12 hours...That Ventrac is Doing over $300 an hour...Can it be done quicker..Absolutely..Can it be done more efficiently...Absolutely....But your criticizing someone that is doing $300+ an hour...

You put two skids..A truck and 3 men and do the math


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Defcon 5 said:


> That sidewalk must pay a pretty penny to have two skids and a truck onsite to do them...


It does. And also has a 6 hour start window from the end of the snow event and or when they call and request service. So all my equipment will be free within the time period. Or at least enough equipment for the job.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Defcon 5 said:


> On 3" of snow...Based on 12 hours...That Ventrac is Doing over $300 an hour...Can it be done quicker..Absolutely..Can it be done more efficiently...Absolutely....But your criticizing someone that is doing $300+ an hour...
> 
> You put two skids..A truck and 3 men and do the math


No I would be perfectly fine doing it with a ventrac myself and making $300an hour if the ventrac did a good job! But it always has at least an inch of snowpack left behind. That's my criticizing point.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

When they dictate when you do the walks and at what depth you start doing them...That issue will exist with any machine you use...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> No I would be perfectly fine doing it with a ventrac myself and making $300an hour if the ventrac did a good job! But it always has at least an inch of snowpack left behind. That's my criticizing point.


The snow pack is due to the contractor having to be called to clear the walk after a few inches of accumulation after it's been walked on. If you were use a V on skid with a steel edge you'll get a better scrape but not a clean scrape and also tear up the walk in the process. Have you given a brush any thought for a lighter snows and clean up pass when a blower or plow was used?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

BUFF said:


> The snow pack is due to the contractor having to be called to clear the walk after a few inches of accumulation after it's been walked on. If you were use a V on skid with a steel edge you'll get a better scrape but not a clean scrape and also tear up the walk in the process. Have you given a brush any thought for a lighter snows and clean up pass when a blower or plow was used?


I did consider running a v blade with a brush behind it for a cleanup pass. That's a great point but I have honestly never used a power broom on snow and do not know how effective it is against snowpack.

The concrete is not the best and it does have some spots that have lifting bad enough that it's out of ada compliance. My big curiosity is that the pro tech has that duck bill on the front to lift it (for the most part) over all uneven joints.

The city is also providing bulk rock salt for the job. So o guess since it's their salt I could just put down an inch of salt and call it a day lol ( just joking Mark)


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Blower first, get the bulk of snow out of the way. If it's not clean enough then broom behind that.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Blower first, get the bulk of snow out of the way. If it's not clean enough then broom behind that.


Will a broom "grind" snowpack off? Serious question I've never tried!


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Will a broom "grind" snowpack off? Serious question I've never tried!


Mark O has plenty of experience with running a brush on walks.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

BUFF said:


> Mark O has plenty of experience with running a brush on walks.


I think Mark gave himself a Timeout before he got a Timeout


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Yea, I don’t think mark likes me.. I can’t math lol


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Yea, I don't think mark likes me.. I can't math lol


Or maybe he's seen plenty of people fail and potentially failed himselfand doesn't want to see you fail. Failing is the only way some people will learn, so maybe it'll humble you a bit to fail.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Or maybe he's seen plenty of people fail and potentially failed himselfand doesn't want to see you fail. Failing is the only way some people will learn, so maybe it'll humble you a bit to fail.


If I was going to fail I would think it would have been the two winter before last when we had 3 plow events each year. I appreciate the criticism to an extent but I don't need spoon fed on finances. We won Walmart for far more per year than I have seen others post that they do it for. That's not a brag, but just stating our figures were well placed and will pay off.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Yea, I don't think mark likes me.. I can't math lol


Mark doesn't like anyone...That's part of his charm


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Defcon 5 said:


> Mark doesn't like anyone...That's part of his charm


What's funny is we have a guy in my pressure washing forum that has the tag on his name as "resident grump" because he responds just like mark. But him and I get along so well we txt. Mark we can make this work buddy...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Yea, I don't think mark likes me.. I can't math lol


Don't take it personal, he can be a bit of a wanker at times but he does know the industry like many other guys on here. When you filter oot the pointed comments and nut busting you can get a lot of insight.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Will a broom "grind" snowpack off? Serious question I've never tried!


Yes, especially if you salt it behind the blower, and then make the pass with the broom after the salt has had time to work.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

To put it simply....

Mark has no filters, he'll give it to you in the straight and skinny, yeah sometimes he has dumb stupid questions.... But he has a point to them

At the end of the day he's a wealth of knowledge and experience you can't replace.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

1olddogtwo said:


> To put it simply....
> 
> Mark has no filters, he'll give it to you in the straight and skinny, yeah sometimes he has dumb stupid questions.... But he has a point to them
> 
> At the end of the day he's a wealth of knowledge and experience you can't replace.


Please...His Ego is large enough...Larger than yours and Buffy's combined..That's Huge...I will agree begrudgingly that he has a vast knowledge...


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Yes, especially if you salt it behind the blower, and then make the pass with the broom after the salt has had time to work.


That's actually a really good idea. As long as I'm not throwing all the salt off the walk.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Yes, especially if you salt it behind the blower, and then make the pass with the broom after the salt has had time to work.


And in all reality I could do it with 1 machine that way. Blower or v plow with salter then when I'm done switch over too the broom and run over it again.

Attaching a salted to a skid steer seems weird though lol


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Yes, the broom will throw the salt off the wall, but it will be slushy snow, not just straight rock salt. 

1025R or 2032R John Deere (or your machine flavor of choice) would be what I'd use. If you've got the room, I'd go 2032. Or a 3 series with factory cab if you have the budget to do so.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Yes, the broom will throw the salt off the wall, but it will be slushy snow, not just straight rock salt.
> 
> 1025R or 2032R John Deere (or your machine flavor of choice) would be what I'd use. If you've got the room, I'd go 2032. Or a 3 series with factory cab if you have the budget to do so.


If I get the bid I could finance one. It would be handy to have around the house. Would much prefer one with a cab.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> If I get the bid I could finance one. It would be handy to have around the house. Would much prefer one with a cab.


You can put an aftermarket cab on the 1/2 series also. We have a 1025R that aside from noise in the cab is one of my favorite (and highest revenue producers per hour) machine to run.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> You can put an aftermarket cab on the 1/2 series also. We have a 1025R that aside from noise in the cab is one of my favorite (and highest revenue producers per hour) machine to run.


I'm looking at both and the 1025 is really affordable!


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> And in all reality I could do it with 1 machine that way. Blower or v plow with salter then when I'm done switch over too the broom and run over it again.
> 
> Attaching a salted to a skid steer seems weird though lol


I understand you want to do a good job and that's commendable....One question....Are you gonna get paid for doing these walks 2-3 times?....What does the RFP say as far as the scope of work?..


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

I see a guy with a 2-3 series cabbed Deere v plow doing long stretches here at several mph, has nice tall tires for curbs.

1025 too slow and tiny tires for areas and depth described.

S70 is very slow and cramped.

Try a wacker wl-30 you can use it at your Walmart walks.

Used mb or holder? This is standard for many munis and I see a few private ones by me.

I see long walks bid usually in the $1xx range per hour, with minimums an retainers. That wacker or holder should run easily 6-10 mph plowing so $1200+ per hour, Your pretty open for anything with that kind of dough. Banker moneies.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Defcon 5 said:


> Please...His Ego is large enough...Larger than yours and Buffy's combined..That's Huge...I will agree begrudgingly that he has a vast knowledge...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

I bit my tongue long enough. OP, Why are you worried about hard pack when you will be on call? It's not your fault that it got all stomped down, do your thing and salt it and call it a day. I do City and town sidewalks and I'm on call to and could give a Fat rats butt about hard pack. If the salt leaves a mess it's another trip for me.

As far as Oomkes all you new guys think that your questions can be answered without a few questions from the board. If you think a vee plow is the answer it does not have to be a protech. Look past the banter and get the answer your looking for. Do I have a protech Vee plow no and never will.

Yes I heard great things about ventrec but I use a bomby and a trackless, some will disagree but I do have rubber edge so I don't get beat up by the uneven flag joints. I have a Toro with a 52 inch blower but it's a pain changing shear pins. You will certainly need a drop spreader. Good luck


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

FredG said:


> I bit my tongue long enough. OP, Why are you worried about hard pack when you will be on call? It's not your fault that it got all stomped down, do your thing and salt it and call it a day. I do City and town sidewalks and I'm on call to and could give a Fat rats butt about hard pack. If the salt leaves a mess it's another trip for me.
> 
> As far as Oomkes all you new guys think that your questions can be answered without a few questions from the board. If you think a vee plow is the answer it does not have to be a protech. Look past the banter and get the answer your looking for. Do I have a protech Vee plow no and never will.
> 
> Yes I heard great things about ventrec but I use a bomby and a trackless, some will disagree but I do have rubber edge so I don't get beat up by the uneven flag joints. I have a Toro with a 52 inch blower but it's a pain changing shear pins. You will certainly need a drop spreader. Good luck


Because it pays well and at the end of the day it's our job to do our best as service providers when task with a job. It's also in the contract that "contractor will clear snow as closely to bare pavement as possible"


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Defcon 5 said:


> I understand you want to do a good job and that's commendable....One question....Are you gonna get paid for doing these walks 2-3 times?....What does the RFP say as far as the scope of work?..


2-5 times per year is a safe bet. Each time being at least 3 inches. Scope of work defines sidewalk to be cleared and timeframes. Also states "contractor will remove snow to as close to bare pavement as possible"


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Because it pays well and at the end of the day it's our job to do our best as service providers when task with a job. It's also in the contract that "contractor will clear snow as closely to bare pavement as possible"


 Really, so the ventrec that performed the work that left behind some snow according to you got fired and the City was not happy with his performance? So your on call whenever the city wants you to plow and it's all hard pack and you are worried? I don't think the city is or you would be plowing when a inch of snow fell. Your knowledge is now in question.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

FredG said:


> Really, so the ventrec that performed the work that left behind some snow according to you got fired and the City was not happy with his performance? So your on call whenever the city wants you to plow and it's all hard pack and you are worried? I don't think the city is or you would be plowing when a inch of snow fell. Your knowledge is now in question.


Never said they weren't happy or he got fired. He has been the only contractor to ever bid the work. And last year the city came asking for other options.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Never said they weren't happy or he got fired. He has been the only contractor to ever bid the work. And last year the city came asking for other options.


 Okay, so this is my point. On a elementary ? sorta say I'm not sure why you are worried about hard pack when you are on call. The City's only option is to plow before it gets all hard packed. Not try to call you in at four inches when it's hoofed down and expect to see concrete.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

FredG said:


> Okay, so this is my point. On a elementary ? sorta say I'm not sure why you are worried about hard pack when you are on call. The City's only option is to plow before it gets all hard packed. Not try to call you in at four inches when it's hoofed down and expect to see concrete.


They don't expect to see concrete to the best of my knowledge and certainly not written that way in the contract. I am just trying to provide a good service and hopefully have zero claims.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> They don't expect to see concrete to the best of my knowledge and certainly not written that way in the contract. I am just trying to provide a good service and hopefully have zero claims.


 I understand, Just make sure you got salt present you will be fine.https://www.auctionsinternational.com/auction/15246/item/village-of-hilton-dpw-ny-15246-93978 If your planing on doing and keeping this job something like this will bang it out. Should be plumed for a drop spreader.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

See the rubber on the blades, that's what I use.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

FredG said:


> See the rubber on the blades, that's what I use.


That thing looks like it would do the job! What do you think it will sell for? How serviceable are they or part availability?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> That thing looks like it would do the job! What do you think it will sell for? How serviceable are they or part availability?


 Besides a few snipers I would want to think they won't go much more. Parts are easy to get out of Canada. It's just a Perkins diesel and a auto tranny we let our local truck and equipment guy work on ours. I know it will road somewhere between 27 and 30 MPH maybe more.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

You do know you need a back up plan, even if it's another contractor that has his back up sitting.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

FredG said:


> You do know you need a back up plan, even if it's another contractor that has his back up sitting.


Back up plan will be our current owned skid steers. Not as efficient and too big for the job just would work in a pinch. This is also why I would really prefer to have a new Deere cabbed tractor. I have a Deere dealer in town that's great about loaning our equipment when you in a pinch.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Never said they weren't happy or he got fired. He has been the only contractor to ever bid the work. And last year the city came asking for other options.


Came asking you or put it out to bid???....


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Defcon 5 said:


> Came asking you or put it out to bid???....


It goes out for bid each year. No one puts in for it but him. One of the city committee members asked me if I had interest and gave me the name of who I needed to contact. It was the same with Walmart.. I never sat foot in the store asking if I could bid it. I happened to wash 2 store assistant managers houses in years past for our local Walmart and each of them asked me if I would "please consider looking at plowing for us"

The same guy had both contracts...


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## 4x4Farmer (Sep 22, 2006)

Okay..so I may be a day late and dollar short here but here is my thoughts. I used to be in the sidewalk business and each situation is different. The way you are making it sound 80% of the sidewalk is curbed right up against the road so the city plows wing it right onto the sidewalk. So basically what your saying is that if you get 1" of snow the sidewalk will have 6+? If this is the case and your worried about spilling snow back onto the road after it's cleared why even waist the money on a V plow? With the amount of snow your making it sound like is going to be on the sidewalk just use a snowblower. Sounds like you have the bobcat so that's the win win. If your using a plow after 2 or 3 times you'll have it banked up so high you'll have to widen it out anyways. Like Mark says...sidewalks are for 1025R and brooms if your in normal conditions. In fact you can't beat them (one of marks 1025r is my old machine) but i think this calls for something a little more heavy duty. I have delt with sidewalk snow that has come off roadways...it is heavy and a lot of times hard as concrete. I know a blower may be a little slower...but put a erskine blower on a small bobcat and do it in one pass with one machine. So glad I'm out of the sidewalk snow business! Or better yet...could use the setup I used to have. Wacker WL37 with a blower.


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## 4x4Farmer (Sep 22, 2006)




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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

4x4Farmer said:


> Okay..so I may be a day late and dollar short here but here is my thoughts. I used to be in the sidewalk business and each situation is different. The way you are making it sound 80% of the sidewalk is curbed right up against the road so the city plows wing it right onto the sidewalk. So basically what your saying is that if you get 1" of snow the sidewalk will have 6+? If this is the case and your worried about spilling snow back onto the road after it's cleared why even waist the money on a V plow? With the amount of snow your making it sound like is going to be on the sidewalk just use a snowblower. Sounds like you have the bobcat so that's the win win. If your using a plow after 2 or 3 times you'll have it banked up so high you'll have to widen it out anyways. Like Mark says...sidewalks are for 1025R and brooms if your in normal conditions. In fact you can't beat them (one of marks 1025r is my old machine) but i think this calls for something a little more heavy duty. I have delt with sidewalk snow that has come off roadways...it is heavy and a lot of times hard as concrete. I know a blower may be a little slower...but put a erskine blower on a small bobcat and do it in one pass with one machine. So glad I'm out of the sidewalk snow business! Or better yet...could use the setup I used to have. Wacker WL37 with a blower.


That looks like it would be really wide on a sidewalk? What's the difference between this wacker machine and the Deere 204k?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

I've never ran the 2 way steering bobcats. This thing looks like it would do ok? It would be nice to add another skid steer to the fleet.


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## 4x4Farmer (Sep 22, 2006)

Those little wheel loaders are nice on sidewalks cause you can maneuver so much better. Our machine was 72" so we were wider then most walks but I liked it as it would widen it out and allow us to keep using brooms after. Wacker makes a smaller machine that fits on most sidewalks. Or like mark said..get a 3000 series deere then you can have all the attachments you want. I'm not sure I would run a John deere snowblower on the front due to the conditions your talking. You can get a Norman blower mounted on the front through a after market company. I have a 3039R with factory cab and I absolutely love the thing.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Against my better judgement I'm replying...might as well hand shovel 6.5 miles of sidewalks with 3"+ of plowed snow on them as use a 1025.

Don't get me wrong, the 1025 is an awesome tractor and does great on smaller walks. But Nick is absolutely correct, a 3 Series is a far better machine for this much work on a regular basis. He is also correct regarding the Deere blower. Or broom. MB has a broom for them that is far better. We don't use our blower much, so I didn't need a top of the line one but would consider it. 

In reality, you could fab up a mount for the V on a 3 Series and have a blower, 1 machine does it all. Baumann hydro drop spreader on the back. 

So the SOW and the other contractor not getting it down to bare pavement...what exactly do the specs say? Do they want bare pavement? 

Personally I would never go over it with a plow\broom\blower, apply salt, then go over it again with a broom throwing all that slushy snow on the turf. And possibly apply again. 

So there you go, despite you not liking me, I'm still helping.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Against my better judgement I'm replying...might as well hand shovel 6.5 miles of sidewalks with 3"+ of plowed snow on them as use a 1025.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the 1025 is an awesome tractor and does great on smaller walks. But Nick is absolutely correct, a 3 Series is a far better machine for this much work on a regular basis. He is also correct regarding the Deere blower. Or broom. MB has a broom for them that is far better. We don't use our blower much, so I didn't need a top of the line one but would consider it.
> 
> ...


Since when have you yielded to "better judgement".......
Good input though.Thumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Since when have you yielded to "better judgement".......


Whatever...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> That's actually a really good idea. As long as I'm not throwing all the salt off the walk.


Drop salter will be your answer...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Drop salter will be your answer...


I like the way you think. Thumbs Up


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I've never ran the 2 way steering bobcats. This thing looks like it would do ok? It would be nice to add another skid steer to the fleet.
> 
> View attachment 184434


Is that a high flow blower/ machine?

If you are looking at snow blowers, I personally would look into high flow machines and blowers. I have limited experience with low flow blowers, but the ones that I have been around have not impressed me.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I like the way you think. Thumbs Up


Mark, do you have any experience with a low flow blower that you can share?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I've never ran the 2 way steering bobcats. This thing looks like it would do ok? It would be nice to add another skid steer to the fleet.
> 
> View attachment 184434


You do realize it's over 6' wide?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Mark, do you have any experience with a low flow blower that you can share?


None...I'm a newbie. And a jerk.



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> If I was going to fail I would think it would have been the two winter before last when we had 3 plow events each year.


Heavy snow years can be just as difficult as light.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> None...I'm a newbie. And a jerk.












I think you need to go back for a refresher course in Buff's people skill class...  Thumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> I think you need to go back for a refresher course in Buff's people skill class...  Thumbs Up


Refresher???

I flunked/got booted after 15 minutes...never got a refund either.


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## 4x4Farmer (Sep 22, 2006)

Mark...you still haven't fabed up that boss v plow for the tractor yet? I'm still waiting lol. We have talked about this multiple times but neither have accomplished it yet!


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## 4x4Farmer (Sep 22, 2006)




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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Against my better judgement I'm replying...might as well hand shovel 6.5 miles of sidewalks with 3"+ of plowed snow on them as use a 1025.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the 1025 is an awesome tractor and does great on smaller walks. But Nick is absolutely correct, a 3 Series is a far better machine for this much work on a regular basis. He is also correct regarding the Deere blower. Or broom. MB has a broom for them that is far better. We don't use our blower much, so I didn't need a top of the line one but would consider it.
> 
> ...


I never said I didn't like you! This is good advice and I really appreciate it! I was actually about to call deere and start getting numbers on a 2 series...

Here is my worry with a 3 series. The width will be wider than the sidewalk and most likely the plow or blower. most of the areas have a curb on the outside of the sidewalk between parking lots and sidewalk. If I go with too wide of a machine I will have to rub the curb on the parking lot side so I don't fall off the curb on road side.

you are saying that fabricating a mount for the protech v on a 3 series would be a good setup? I am not really that worried about spilling snow back onto the road. I planed to have a truck or loader on the outside lane by the sidewalk following the sidewalk machine catching the snow and taking it into designated spots along the route. I have quite a few places on each block where I can put snow that falls back onto the road. I also approved this with the city. The truck following will also have extra salt for the sidewalk machine. Do you think a 2 series would do ok with a fabricated v plow?

I will get an exact measurement on width on my lunch break.

I do really appreciate the advice and just know that I am just bull headed (like you I'm sure) I do like you!


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## 4x4Farmer (Sep 22, 2006)

Put a 60" Normand on the front and you'll have life by the balls. Can fab up a boss utv v plow like mark and I have been talking about for years. Get a sweepster broom...drop spreader on the back.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

4x4Farmer said:


> Mark...you still haven't fabed up that boss v plow for the tractor yet? I'm still waiting lol. We have talked about this multiple times but neither have accomplished it yet!


No, it's not really useful at the hospital where I'm using the 3046. Or your 1025.

Actually thinking about fabbing one up to go on a Toro Dingo TX1000 and pair it up with an SSV. The Dingo could do the public walks that don't get salted, then start on stairways. The SSV can get the walks that get salted in the mean time. Probably won't happen this year though.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Drop salter will be your answer...


I want one. Hefty price tag though


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

EWSplow said:


> I want one. Hefty price tag though


It's only money...I have 2 plus a Baumann hydro. The SnowEx work great on 1025s.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> It's only money...I have 2 plus a Baumann hydro. The SnowEx work great on 1025s.


The 1400 would be nice on the Heep, but $4K. I'm a cheap arse.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

EWSplow said:


> The 1400 would be nice on the Heep, but $4K. I'm a cheap arse.


Ventrac makes a Heep model...lol.

They make a stainless steel electric drop spreader but the price is much higher with a lower capacity than the SnowEx.

I had my second one ordered (much to the CFO's delight) and while I was waiting for it the rotary spreader that I had on the 1025 rusted apart.

Someday she'll learn to trust my instincts.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Here is my worry with a 3 series. The width will be wider than the sidewalk and most likely the plow or blower.


I measured mine, it is 53-54" with Nokian tyres. So yes it is wider than the sidewalks.

There's ways around the plow being too wide.



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> you are saying that fabricating a mount for the protech v on a 3 series would be a good setup?


I'm saying it could be done very easily.



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> The width will be wider than the sidewalk and most likely the plow or blower. most of the areas have a curb on the outside of the sidewalk between parking lots and sidewalk.


If the amount of sidewalk that close to curbs is that much, a V plow is a waste of time.

The fixed V is just increasing your time performing the work. The trucks plow it onto the walk, you plow it onto the street and remove it. Why not buy the right equipment and handle the snow once? I hate doing work twice that can be done once, it's inefficient, wasteful of time and my customers' money. It's like using a garden hose to get your pressure washing projects wet, then using the pressure washer to rinse them. Why can't you use the pressure washer to wet and rinse? Using a garden hose involves another person (potentially), another tank, another pump, another hose, etc, etc, etc.



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I do really appreciate the advice and just know that I am just bull headed (like you I'm sure) I do like you!


I'm not bullheaded, I'm persistent.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I measured mine, it is 53-54" with Nokian tyres. So yes it is wider than the sidewalks.
> 
> There's ways around the plow being too wide.
> 
> ...


so all in all you believe

1. a 1 or 2 series deere is too small with a blower or v plow?
2. a 3 series would be wider than the walk but would have the power?
3. a v plow is likely useless and I should just use a blower on a 3 series?

If I were to get a 3 series and a blower should I just get a 48 inch blower? I would think a more narrow blower on a larger machine would speed up productivity as it wouldn't be pushing the limits on HP.
Does the 3s need to be a high flow unit or just a stock 3?

The only reason I thought the v with 2 vehicles is we could clip right along vs crawl at 1/2 mph in a blower. Assuming the snow is like concrete I cant see a blower munching it much faster? Just picking your brain. I figured it would be pretty quick that way. But I haven't done it before and that's why I'm here. too learn and argue even though I have no idea!

Edit question. If the machine is wider than the blower what happens when the tires rub the snow trench walls? does it pack it down or will it fall back in on the walk?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

4x4Farmer said:


> View attachment 184442


It's a "Mini Me" tractor.....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> you are saying that fabricating a mount for the protech v on a 3 series would be a good setup?





Mark Oomkes said:


> The fixed V is just increasing your time performing the work.


FIXED V is the thing Mark is emphasizing I believe... The only thing that they are good for when plowing snow is if you are doing walks that have no curbs or roads touching them where the snow can just roll off to both sides.

There is one set up pretty well on this site for sale to give you another idea of a route you can take of a non fixed v plow mounted to a lawn mower...

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/deere-3046r-with-normand-blower-and-boss-v.173242/


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Philbilly2 said:


> FIXED V is the thing Mark is emphasizing I believe... The only thing that they are good for when plowing snow is if you are doing walks that have no curbs or roads touching them where the snow can just roll off to both sides.
> 
> There is one set up pretty well on this site for sale to give you another idea of a route you can take of a non fixed v plow mounted to a lawn mower...
> 
> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/deere-3046r-with-normand-blower-and-boss-v.173242/


OHHH thats purdy! If a blower is the right way to go though I want to explore that option. I see it has a blower on the back but you can bet your A I'm not going to back up 6.5 miles if I have to blow it.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> OHHH thats purdy! If a blower is the right way to go though I want to explore that option. I see it has a blower on the back but you can bet your A I'm not going to back up 6.5 miles if I have to blow it.


That is an inverted... You drive forward.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> 1. a 1 or 2 series deere is too small with a blower or v plow?


1025 and a blower is great on unplowed snow, the only thing that it lacks is getting more snow into the blower. This is a Deere blower, very lightweight. I would look into something different if I was using it on a regular basis. Actually, most of their front mount attachments are homeowner grade.

I've only run an older 2 Series until my 3046 came in. I was underwhelmed. It did the job, but I don't think any better than a 1025. The factory cab makes a huge difference. Deere is stupid for not building one.



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> 2. a 3 series would be wider than the walk but would have the power?


Absolutely



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> 3. a v plow is likely useless and I should just use a blower on a 3 series?


A fixed V. A Boss V might not be. I really am hesitant to say something won't work without seeing it, but based on what you've said the fixed V is not going to be very efficient because you're going to have to clean up behind it.



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> If I were to get a 3 series and a blower should I just get a 48 inch blower?


I don't know what's out there for aftermarket blowers.



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I would think a more narrow blower on a larger machine would speed up productivity as it wouldn't be pushing the limits on HP.


Agreed



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Does the 3s need to be a high flow unit or just a stock 3?


It's run off the mid-PTO, and the chute rotation is run off the loader valve.



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Edit question. If the machine is wider than the blower what happens when the tires rub the snow trench walls? does it pack it down or will it fall back in on the walk?


Yes


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Does the 3s need to be a high flow unit or just a stock 3?


These lawn mowers use PTO's to run the blowers I believe. Hydros will be for chute, but I have never seen hydros on a mower running the drive honestly don't think they have the GPM... could be wrong. Mark will know this.

EDIT: Looks like Mark just covered it while I was typing.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Regarding hi-flow for a blower on skidsteer...don't even bother looking at a skidsteer without it if you're going to use it for walks. Or any type of snowblowing on a regular basis.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> These lawn mowers use PTO's to run the blowers I believe. Hydros will be for chute, but I have never seen hydros on a mower running the drive honestly don't think they have the GPM... could be wrong. Mark will know this.
> 
> EDIT: Looks like Mark just covered it while I was typing.


I could be wrong, but I thought I stumbled across a JD hydro blower on CL awhile back.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

EWSplow said:


> I could be wrong, but I thought I stumbled across a JD hydro blower on CL awhile back.


I don't know the GPM of these little utility tractors but it can't see it being more than 10 GPM. Not enough HP to run big GPM.

I would think if they do make a hydro power one, it is likely a POS meant for homeowners. Not saying that it is not out there, but the numbers don't work. GPM is everything on a blower if it is driven by hydro.

EDIT: just looked it up. 8.6 GPM implement flow on a 3033R...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

My Deere dealer had a narrow 5 Series set up for muni walks. Had a dual auger blower up front run off a gearbox that was powered by the rear PTO.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

EWSplow said:


> I could be wrong, but I thought I stumbled across a JD hydro blower on CL awhile back.


I think those are mounted to the loader arms, come to think of it.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> I don't know the GPM of these little utility tractors but it can't see it being more than 10 GPM. Not enough HP to run big GPM.
> 
> I would think if they do make a hydro power one, it is likely a POS meant for homeowners. Not saying that it is not out there, but the numbers don't work. GPM is everything on a blower if it is driven by hydro.


Agreed.
I think the GPM is down around 5 on those tractors. The little that I do know is with low GPM, the hydraulic motors are either low speed, or low torque. You can't have both speed and torque. I found this out with augers.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I think those are mounted to the loader arms, come to think of it.


Yes, that's what I saw. I was looking at one for my subcompact.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I think those are mounted to the loader arms, come to think of it.


Are they worth a snot?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Are they worth a snot?


I can't imagine they are.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

is the mid mount pto still 540 on those compact units?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> is the mid mount pto still 540 on those compact units?


Good question, I don't know.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> is the mid mount pto still 540 on those compact units?


I believe so. Some might even have 2 speed.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

EWSplow said:


> I believe so. Some might even have 2 speed.


Oops. Not sure about mid.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

OR...

This might be an option to look into... maybe not the right brand per say, but might be the right setup for what you are doing. Gators are not up the the work task like a Kubota. Drive system is much more built for work, but top speed is limited.

Or better yet, google Bobcat Toolcat

Mark might be able to provide a bit of incite on this style setup too...










OP - There is some good info for you in this thread...

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/36-sidewalk-snow-removal-options.171016/


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Page #7 from above referenced thread. Thumbs Up



Mark Oomkes said:


> I have run a lot as well. I do a ton of research to find the "best" machine as well.
> 
> But the problem is, situations are different and in all reality, there isn't one machine that is the best.
> 
> ...


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Philbilly2 said:


> OR...
> 
> This might be an option to look into... maybe not the right brand per say, but might be the right setup for what you are doing. Gators are not up the the work task like a Kubota. Drive system is much more built for work, but top speed is limited.
> 
> ...


I agree! This thread is turning out very helpful! We use the toolcats here at work. I am the safety officer here at the college...
I have asked the grounds guys how they like the toolcats and they like them but we don't run blowers on them. From what I hear the Polaris Brutus are junk.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Page #7 from above referenced thread. Thumbs Up


That guy sounds like an idiot...and grumpy.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That guy sounds like an idiot...and grumpy.


Agreed...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)




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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I agree! This thread is turning out very helpful! We use the toolcats here at work. I am the safety officer here at the college...
> I have asked the grounds guys how they like the toolcats and they like them but we don't run blowers on them. From what I hear the Polaris Brutus are junk.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Defcon 5 said:


> View attachment 184453


lol let me get the old checkbook out and see how rubbery it feels today!


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Defcon 5 said:


> View attachment 184452


Nice sidewalk fleet, which I was going to suggest, but I thought he was looking for 4' wide.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

EWSplow said:


> Nice sidewalk fleet, which I was going to suggest, but I thought he was looking for 4' wide.


Lawn edging at no extra charge....Thinking out side the box


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

I feel like Mark likes every comment on this thread except for any of mine.. lol *trucewhiteflag*


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I feel like Mark likes every comment on this thread except for any of mine.. lol *trucewhiteflag*


Don't seek his approval...You will not get it and frankly it's not worth it


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I feel like Mark likes every comment on this thread except for any of mine.. lol *trucewhiteflag*


"Likes" used be to the cool thing around here, if you get a snow globe though; you're doing something right


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> is the mid mount pto still 540 on those compact units?


2000 rpm on most, if not all, mid pto's on the baby tractors.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> 2000 rpm on most, if not all, mid pto's on the baby tractors.


Is that actual PTO RPM or engine?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> "Likes" used be to the cool thing around here, if you get a snow globe though; you're doing something right


Jealousy is so ugly on you.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Don't seek his approval...You will not get it and frankly it's not worth it


If you say so...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

John_DeereGreen said:


> 2000 rpm on most, if not all, mid pto's on the baby tractors.


never heard of 2000?

just a mower thing? We have a few things at the farm that are 1000 pto, but never heard of 2000.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Jealousy is so ugly on you.


Not jealous about that, although I'm kinda bummed you don't get a free shovel for joining sima anymore.

Btw OP, make sure you have a shovel


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Not jealous about that, although I'm kinda bummed you don't get a free shovel for joining sima anymore.
> 
> Btw OP, make sure you have a shovel


I have a few but they have an inch of dust on them...


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

It’s opening day of bow season here in Illinois and I don’t know about you guys but my happy butt is in the woods!


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> It's opening day of bow season here in Illinois and I don't know about you guys but my happy butt is in the woods!


Watch oot for this guy and his brother....


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> It's opening day of bow season here in Illinois and I don't know about you guys but my happy butt is in the woods!


There is a Belos and a Trackless on the Govdeals auction, both have Vee blades.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

BUFF said:


> Watch oot for this guy and his brother....
> View attachment 184472


How'd you get my picture?


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Here you go
https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/for/d/steiner-tractor-attachments/6688136566.html


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> How'd you get my picture?


From the .com.....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> From the .com.....


It's amazing what pics you can find on the .com...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> It's amazing what pics you can find on the .com...


Yes indeed and many you wish you didn't....


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Is that actual PTO RPM or engine?





Philbilly2 said:


> never heard of 2000?
> 
> just a mower thing? We have a few things at the farm that are 1000 pto, but never heard of 2000.


Yes, PTO is 2000 rpm for mid pto. Sorry, I guess Deere specs it as 2100, but I've always heard them called 2000.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Yes indeed and many you wish you didn't....


Stolen pics???


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Yes, PTO is 2000 rpm for mid pto. Sorry, I guess Deere specs it as 2100, but I've always heard them called 2000.
> View attachment 184483


I learned my 1 thing for the year.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

LapeerLandscape said:


> View attachment 184473
> 
> There is a Belos and a Trackless on the Govdeals auction, both have Vee blades.


While I like my Belos, I think it is too wide for the application. You can get it down to 50" if you really try (custom rims), but as pictured, the one listed is close to 60". The trackless is 49" wide


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