# 00 TJ Sahara needs a drivetrain upgrade!



## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

Have a 00 TJ Sahara with 140K miles, 4.0, auto I use for plowing. I have the lowest stock gearing/rear specs. If I were to upgrade all, what % of torque would I gain by doing this? Would it be noticeable? I need more power/low-end torque for plowing! Any experience/thoughts on this? 
Thanx much in advance,
Tim


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

I have a 2000TJ 4.0 auto with 160,000 miles Im baffled as to why you need more power. that 4.0 has oodles of low end torque. you have 3.73:1 gearing . I plow with a 7 1/2 fisher RD and have no problems pushing snow. 

but to your question Just under $600 to re gear an axle I am really happy with my 4.56:1 in my 2000 TJ 4.0 with a 5 speed tranny.

So why do you think you need more plow power?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Plows in D, when he gets to the end of the push and the transition has up shifted , then
It has no power to push the pile back, .

Just a guess.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

With that tranny he should shift into 1st and push. By plowing in "D" he will blow the tranny. Ask how I know.


OK Ill tell you! That happened to me. The tranny guy (who builds racing trannys) told me thats why the tranny blow. need to select 1st when plowing.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

theplowmeister said:


> I have a 2000TJ 4.0 auto with 160,000 miles Im baffled as to why you need more power. that 4.0 has oodles of low end torque. you have 3.73:1 gearing . I plow with a 7 1/2 fisher RD and have no problems pushing snow.
> 
> but to your question Just under $600 to re gear an axle I am really happy with my 4.56:1 in my 2000 TJ 4.0 with a 5 speed tranny.
> 
> So why do you think you need more plow power?





theplowmeister said:


> With that tranny he should shift into 1st and push. By plowing in "D" he will blow the tranny. Ask how I know.
> 
> OK Ill tell you! That happened to me. The tranny guy (who builds racing trannys) told me thats why the tranny blow. need to select 1st when plowing.


Im plowing with a YJ with a 2.5 4 cylinder, automatic and it has enough low end torque. 
I find that I lose traction before it runs out of power.

Heat wasn't an issue in blowing the automatic?
Mine runs relatively cool.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

EWSplow said:


> Im plowing with a YJ with a 2.5 4 cylinder, automatic and it has enough low end torque.
> I find that I lose traction before it runs out of power.
> 
> Heat wasn't an issue in blowing the automatic?
> Mine runs relatively cool.


 Thats where Blizzak Tires and 300# of counter weight come in. 
No I have a tranny cooler on it.


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## Unimog416 (Feb 6, 2021)

info4tim said:


> Have a 00 TJ Sahara with 140K miles, 4.0, auto I use for plowing. I have the lowest stock gearing/rear specs. If I were to upgrade all, what % of torque would I gain by doing this? Would it be noticeable? I need more power/low-end torque for plowing! Any experience/thoughts on this?
> Thanx much in advance,
> Tim


You can get almost any gear-set you can imagine for a Jeep. But, remember the Lower the gears the lower your top speed is. I would try something in the 4.30-4.8 range. But, you will reduce top speed and cruise at a higher rpm as well. So, all of those things are to be considered.

Maybe you just need a bigger truck?


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## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

Thanks for your reply. No, don't want bigger truck - been there done that. Just want a bit more umph at low-end for plowing.


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## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

Hydromaster said:


> Plows in D, when he gets to the end of the push and the transition has up shifted , then
> It has no power to push the pile back, .
> 
> Just a guess.


Yes! Thats it! Going along with say 4" of snow in park lot, after a bit it just groans and don't wanna beat it up. Esp at end of push, with stacking at end of push. Tx


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## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

Unimog416 said:


> You can get almost any gear-set you can imagine for a Jeep. But, remember the Lower the gears the lower your top speed is. I would try something in the 4.30-4.8 range. But, you will reduce top speed and cruise at a higher rpm as well. So, all of those things are to be considered.
> 
> Maybe you just need a bigger truck?


If I replace just rear with a Dana 44 with 410 gearing, will I notice a big diff but not sac speed? Come to think of it, don't really care about that. This jeep is mainly a plow tool. I do have a topend Programmer coming from Quadratec so will have that also.


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## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

theplowmeister said:


> Thats where Blizzak Tires and 300# of counter weight come in.
> No I have a tranny cooler on it.


Have a cooler, and 400# of rear weight, n 31 Duratracs (just an awesome plow tire, btw)


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## Unimog416 (Feb 6, 2021)

info4tim said:


> If I replace just rear with a Dana 44 with 410 gearing, will I notice a big diff but not sac speed? Come to think of it, don't really care about that. This jeep is mainly a plow tool. I do have a topend Programmer coming from Quadratec so will have that also.


It's always best to keep the front and rear differentials the same when operating in 4WD at higher speeds. Also, you have 31 inch tires roughly 2 inches bigger than the stock tires. So, are effectively reducing the 3.73:1 ratio a little bit.
http://myjeeptj.com/wp-content/uploads/gear-ratio-to-tire-size-chart/gear_ratios.jpgthis a TJ tire chart and gear ratio for 4.0 liter engine. It says you want 4.56 or 4.88 to 1 get maximum power for towing with 31 inch tires. 
as for your tuner that will get you extra power and torque but if you re-gear the differentials lower you will still top out lower than before and you cruise at higher rpms. The only way to get back top speed is to increase rpm and wheel speed.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

I run 4.56:1 gears in my Manual. with 31 inch blizzak I can push snow better than my Helper could with his F250 (with ballast) with all season tires. 

Im at a loss for you, my other Jeep 2000 TJ auto 4.0 with Blizzak and #300 in the back is a plowing machine. dont know why your having problems. Tranny slipping?


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## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

Unimog416 said:


> It's always best to keep the front and rear differentials the same when operating in 4WD at higher speeds. Also, you have 31 inch tires roughly 2 inches bigger than the stock tires. So, are effectively reducing the 3.73:1 ratio a little bit.
> http://myjeeptj.com/wp-content/uploads/gear-ratio-to-tire-size-chart/gear_ratios.jpgthis a TJ tire chart and gear ratio for 4.0 liter engine. It says you want 4.56 or 4.88 to 1 get maximum power for towing with 31 inch tires.
> as for your tuner that will get you extra power and torque but if you re-gear the differentials lower you will still top out lower than before and you cruise at higher rpms. The only way to get back top speed is to increase rpm and wheel speed.


Unimog,
Ok thanks, really good info. This is what I'm looking for. Pardon the naivety, what are the numbers in the boxes designate? I think I'll do the 4.56. *Must* I also do the front also then? Can I just re-gear, or must I replace both diffs with a Dana 44? 
On the tuner I'm getting later this week. Not sure what you mean on using it. Will it be ok to do this now - before the re-gear (hope so)? What do you mean by "The only way to get back top speed........."? Thanx so much in advance, for the uniformed, but willing to learn and do it right the first time! Cheers, Tim


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## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

theplowmeister said:


> I run 4.56:1 gears in my Manual. with 31 inch blizzak I can push snow better than my Helper could with his F250 (with ballast) with all season tires.
> 
> Im at a loss for you, my other Jeep 2000 TJ auto 4.0 with Blizzak and #300 in the back is a plowing machine. dont know why your having problems. Tranny slipping?


PM,
Just got back from plowing another 6". Same problem at the end of the push - give it a little gas while lifting plow, to stack - it just sits there and groans! (Btw, I'm in D, and 4WD HI - LOW helps sometimes, but don't like to use it unless Absolutely have to.) Tranny is def. not slipping. It's been gone over, serviced (new screen, fluid, and evac of torque converter every year) and checked out with a fine tooth comb. I would say your other TJ (with 4.56) and manual wouldn't have as much of a problem as I'm having with a 307. What's your specs while in this scenario? That is, your 4.0 auto - what transmission gear are you in, 4WD LO/HI and when, at the end of the push do you start to lift the pile, and attempt to push the existing pile back? Do you by chance just lift and ram pile into existing pile to push back?! Can't imagine you can do that with regular gearing.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

With my Jeep with the 4.0
I Use 1st gear .high range
My first post outlined the issue.


use the pile to slow you down with the brakes as you run into the pile. lift the blade and manke a small ramp to stack the snow

All done with “regular gearing “
I domt see a reason to regear at this point.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

info4tim said:


> PM,
> Just got back from plowing another 6". Same problem at the end of the push - give it a little gas while lifting plow, to stack - it just sits there and groans! (Btw, I'm in D, and 4WD HI - LOW helps sometimes, but don't like to use it unless Absolutely have to.) Tranny is def. not slipping. It's been gone over, serviced (new screen, fluid, and evac of torque converter every year) and checked out with a fine tooth comb. I would say your other TJ (with 4.56) and manual wouldn't have as much of a problem as I'm having with a 307. What's your specs while in this scenario? That is, your 4.0 auto - what transmission gear are you in, 4WD LO/HI and when, at the end of the push do you start to lift the pile, and attempt to push the existing pile back? Do you by chance just lift and ram pile into existing pile to push back?! Can't imagine you can do that with regular gearing.


If its wet, heavy snow, you're not going to be able to stack, unless you time your lift. Even then, you might have to take 2 bites at it.
Even with a full size truck, I've experienced this, or losing traction.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Ie, Take smaller bites


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Hydromaster said:


> Ie, Take smaller bites


Nibbles?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Is that like a small taste?


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

The Jeeps with auto trannys came with 3.73, did some one change the gearing?) ITS a Jeep Pushing 6" of snow is going to be tough.
2) if its just sitting there and Groening it IS the tranny slipping or the tires. NOthing else can slipp.
are you in low range? That would help a LOT.
Could need a tranny rebuild $1000. (those 3 speed tranys are cheep to rebuild
3) your NOT going to be able to push a pile back.
I make ramps with the snow. Just like you see bulldozers doing with dirt.

Yes YOU HAVE to have BOTH the front and read gears the same. else the rear will be going 25 MPH and the front will try to go 28 MPH (that is until something SNAPS mot likely the differential)


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## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

Hydromaster said:


> With my Jeep with the 4.0
> I Use 1st gear .high range
> My first post outlined the issue.
> 
> ...


Well, plowing with an auto in 1st gear is just asking for trans. problems! Wow.
Re-gearing will give me much more low-end torque in both 4HI & LO.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Good luck.

Ps I Plowed with it for years, no problems.


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## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

theplowmeister said:


> The Jeeps with auto trannys came with 3.73, did some one change the gearing?) ITS a Jeep Pushing 6" of snow is going to be tough.
> 2) if its just sitting there and Groening it IS the tranny slipping or the tires. NOthing else can slipp.
> are you in low range? That would help a LOT.
> Could need a tranny rebuild $1000. (those 3 speed tranys are cheep to rebuild
> ...


Nope. 307 in my 00 Sahara. Just scheduled a complete (front n rear) regear to 411. Also, just installed a SuperPAQ tuner. Just got back from plowing another 10" storm. Def a diff in pushing and stacking now! Well worth it!

The groaning was before, at the pile trying to push up pile. Just an even slow push on gas.. There was no tire spinning Or transmission slippage. Just a groaning from engine saying I just ain't got the power here. Like I said, Trans was rebuilt couple yrs ago along with torq converter. Screens n fluid chged every yr. Nope, not the Trans either. Can't wait for next yr with the 411s!


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)




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## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

Yep, you are correct. I'm upgrading to 410s - just like all stock Rubi's!


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