# Help. New to snow plowing business



## Snowplowvirgin (Apr 18, 2017)

Hey everyone! I am finally getting in the plowing business. I have a relative who purchased a property that will need plowing. He called me up to see if I would be interested in plowing for his property. I said yes but the only issue is I don't know where to start. The property is 80 miles away (1:20 drive) which I don't mind at all. I'm looking to buy a new truck or certified truck but don't know if a f250 (supercab, 6ft bed) is sufficient or should i go with 350. I will be salting as well. This will be probably be my daily driver as well. Yes I know, the gas! So as of now I will be only doing his property but hopefully to get more clients. Anyone here can steer me in the right direction?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

First off you need to make you have proper insurance (General Liabilty) and set up a LLC to protect your personal assets.
How do you plan to monitor the conditions of the property, being 80miles away you can just swing by.
You said it's 1hr 20min away I assume this is when the roads are clear and dry. So you can easily add another 20-30min when it's snowing. So you've have approx 3.5 to 4hrs if drive time. How big is this property, does if justify all that windshield time? 
I'm not trying to poke holes in this idea but the drive time and ability to monitor the property is a problem imo.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

No offense, but it makes no business sense whatsoever to drive 80 miles (one way?) to plow. I say that from a business perspective, not a plowing perspective. There must be more to your story though for you to agree to do it for him. Your choice, of course.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Don't do it, not enough screen ink to explain as to why not.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

You can't take on any more customers. You are to far away if the crap hits the fan. The whole idea to me is written with failure. Find work close to home.


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## Snowplowvirgin (Apr 18, 2017)

Hey guys. Thanks for your advices. I know it sounds real dumb to travel so far for one account. The only reason why I would take it is because it's for family and the pay is pretty good. Also, I am in need of some more income. I'm prepared to sleep there when there's a blizzard. Hard to get through nowadays. Also why he asked me. I guess he rather pay me than someone else. He said he spent around 15g last year for plowing. For 15g, why not?


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## Snowplowvirgin (Apr 18, 2017)

BUFF said:


> First off you need to make you have proper insurance (General Liabilty) and set up a LLC to protect your personal assets.
> How do you plan to monitor the conditions of the property, being 80miles away you can just swing by.
> You said it's 1hr 20min away I assume this is when the roads are clear and dry. So you can easily add another 20-30min when it's snowing. So you've have approx 3.5 to 4hrs if drive time. How big is this property, does if justify all that windshield time?
> I'm not trying to poke holes in this idea but the drive time and ability to monitor the property is a problem imo.


Thanks buff! Solid advice. Yeah the income I will be making will justify my time, imo. I know it's going to take forever to get down there and back. Yeah I'm prepared to stay there and sleep there if needed. It will be lonely im sure but the money will go a long way. The property has around 150 parking spots.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

That's a whole lot of wear and tear on your front end driving that far every time with a plow attached to the truck.

And you said he paid about 15K last season. So after expenses like commercial auto insurance, liability insurance, permits (we don't know where you are located or if you need them), salt, maintenance on the truck, plow and spreader, fuel, etc. etc. you might clear more like 6K. Then with the 6K you have to make your truck payment, plow payment, spreader payment, and pay income taxes. So sounds like you will be paying your family member to move their snow for them.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

150 parking spots means absolutely nothing. How big is the plowable surface of the lot? What about sidewalks? You do know that with commercial properties you are liable as the contract holder so you have to do site checks for days after a storm to make sure there aren't any drifting, or frozen run off to take care of. That's a lot of driving to check to see if the lot needs 3 minutes of work that yes you will be responsible for to avoid getting sued by someone using the lot that slipped and fell.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

150 spaces is probably aboot 2>acres witch is aboot $325 and take aboot a hour a push for me. 4hrs for windshield time I can bill $1200 with ease.


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## Snowplowvirgin (Apr 18, 2017)

If I am able to store the plow and the salter somewhere nearby the site that would work right?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Snowplowvirgin said:


> If I am able to store the plow and the salter somewhere nearby the site that would work right?


. What if it snows by where you live.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

My weather forecast is wrong 50% of the time. How many times are you going to run over there and spend the night, only to have nothing billable to do? Then it goes the other way, forecast is clear and you wake up in the morning and over there they got 4+" and your 90 min away?
Bad idea.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

Another way to analyze it is to consider your relationship with your relative if it turns out you have problems servicing the lot and let him down, so to speak.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

such a bad idea....

If you want to get into this business do it closer to home. I will also suggest NEVER working for friends and family. They will try to walk all over you. When he says he paid $15k from the last guy, he really meant that he feels he over paid and he wants you to slave away. 

By the way, anyone else on here sleep during a blizzard:laugh:


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

He sees $15,000.00. he has to buy a truck, plow, salter, and salt. Gas and insurance. Then drive that far. I don't see many positives here. Get you work close to home.


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## Snowplowvirgin (Apr 18, 2017)

I appreciate all the feedbacks! I know you guys are all probably right. But if i do this can you guys help me out with where to start?


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Snowplowvirgin said:


> I appreciate all the feedbacks! I know you guys are all probably right. But if i do this can you guys help me out with where to start?


We are helping out with where to start. Stay close to home. This idea you have is not a viable business option. You obviously have not grasped the amount of work commercial snow removal is, how much of a time commitment it is with doing constant site checks, on site weather monitoring etc. You are also still not grasping how much all this costs. Like I said with what you are proposing IF you were able to bill 15K for the season, you would be loosing money. You would be paying him to move his snow for him. It's a horrible idea. I'm sorry to break it to you, we just don't want to see you fail. And this a failing opportunity all around.


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## Snowplowvirgin (Apr 18, 2017)

ktfbgb said:


> We are helping out with where to start. Stay close to home. This idea you have is not a viable business option. You obviously have not grasped the amount of work commercial snow removal is, how much of a time commitment it is with doing constant site checks, on site weather monitoring etc. You are also still not grasping how much all this costs. Like I said with what you are proposing IF you were able to bill 15K for the season, you would be loosing money. You would be paying him to move his snow for him. It's a horrible idea. I'm sorry to break it to you, we just don't want to see you fail. And this a failing opportunity all around.


Thanks for your advice. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's a lot of work. Nothing is ever easy in this life. Dahm nothing is ever easy with mine. Maybe I'll pass on this account then and try to get some local accounts for a few seasons and see how that goes first. Any advice on what truck? 3/4 ton good enough for salter and plow? And any other advice on equipment and such. Thanks for all the help guys.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

What size salter? What state are you in? Do you have to get weighed? If you have to get weighed, or if there is a possibility that DOT will pull you over to get weighed while loaded, then you need to know what size salter you want to run so you know what size GVWR you need. For plowing a 3/4 ton is fine. The determining factor will be what's stated above.


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## Snowplowvirgin (Apr 18, 2017)

ktfbgb said:


> What size salter? What state are you in? Do you have to get weighed? If you have to get weighed, or if there is a possibility that DOT will pull you over to get weighed while loaded, then you need to know what size salter you want to run so you know what size GVWR you need. For plowing a 3/4 ton is fine. The determining factor will be what's stated above.


I'm in jersey. I'm planning to get a truck with a cab. Can I get a salter for a 6" bed?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Snowplowvirgin said:


> I'm in jersey. I'm planning to get a truck with a cab. Can I get a salter for a 6" bed?


Rumor on the playground is insurance for plowing in Jersey is very expensive.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

BUFF said:


> Rumor on the playground is insurance for plowing in Jersey is very expensive.


PFFFFT! It's only money. Everyone I know who plows snow here all day the same thing. At this time they would never start up from scratch to plow snow


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Ok, you want to know where to get started.

First, completely forget that $15k, because it's already spent.

Then before you do anything talk to your insurance agent about general liability and commercial auto (also see if you need work comp for you the owner in your state). If after getting quotes on that you still want to start a business here are a few things.

You need to create a legal business. I would recommend splitting yourself from your company (so you personally aren't liable) and for an LLC or incorporate. You can hire a lawyer to help, or use one of those websites. You will also need to get a lawyer to write you up a few contracts for your customers to sign.

You need to buy a truck, and it HAS to be something reliable. People are counting on you to keep things clear, so you can't have your truck breaking down constantly. Since it's your daily driver I would guess you don't want just the work truck package, so I'm going to guess you will have to end up spending $15-20k if not double. 3/4 would be fine, but if you want a large spreader go with 1 ton to make life easier.

Next you need a good commercial grade plow. I would highly recommend a V, but you can get by with a straight. If you go straight blade I would also recommend wings for it, you will thank me later. Just from my experience in the past, knowing nothing about plows, I personally would go new. That way you don't have any unforseen headaches. I would guess $4-8+k for your plow.

Next is your spreader, kind of. Do you have space to hold tons (literally) of bulk salt? Do you have a way to load it, like a bobcat or tractor? If you don't you'll have to get bagged salt and go the tailgate spreader route. Then you need space to put your pallets of salt. If you don't have a forklift you will have to load salt by hand every storm and fill your bed up. Depending on what way you go there, your spreader cost will vary greatly. Don't forget you need cash on hand to buy all this salt, depending on your area the price will differ.

Then what about the sidewalks? Most places want those done too. You will need shovels, a good commercial walk behind spreader, and probably a blower. These prices will be all over the board, but probably around $1+k for everything.

Now you need to figure out a back up plan. Even with new things, things break. There is no getting around it. You need to have someone you can call or have extra equipment if something happens and you can't make your route.

With all that said, this business is much more than buying equipment. You need customer service, because you will have *****y customers. You will not get much sleep, and put in more hours than you have ever worked before. You will constantly be doing site checks to look for blowing snow or runoff. Above all you can't make plans. The weathermen are always wrong, and you HAVE to be on call and ready to go at the drop of a hat. Not an easy job what so ever, but it can be rewarding.

You can also search around on here, tons of people have asked about a new business. I will still highly recommended against driving 80 miles for an account. You could easily add a few jobs in that drive time and have 3 instead of 1, plus you'd save the gas.

Guys, please add anything I forgot.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

^^^^ wow that was long! Sorry for the long reply.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JMHConstruction said:


> ^^^^ wow that was long! Sorry for the long reply.


no ewer not.........:laugh::laugh:


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

JMH......That was good, but almost out of monitor ink.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Snowplowvirgin said:


> I'm in jersey. I'm planning to get a truck with a cab. Can I get a salter for a 6" bed?


I doubt it. You would have rig something up since none of the big 3 truck manufacturers offer a 6' bed. You can however get salters for a standard 6.5' bed which all three offer.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

JMHConstruction said:


> Ok, you want to know where to get started.
> 
> First, completely forget that $15k, because it's already spent.
> 
> ...


His biggest downfall, He's in Jersey.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

1olddogtwo said:


> JMH......That was good, but almost out of monitor ink.


I'll reimburse youThumbs Up


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Virgin, This is just a bad idea, What are you going to do about back up? I would not commit to something that far away especially with a relative. It would be different if it was summer work like mowing etc.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Where in Jersey are you, and where is the site? You do realize it doesn't snow much here anymore.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Randall Ave said:


> Where in Jersey are you, and where is the site? You do realize it doesn't snow much here anymore.


Can you even drive 80miles and still be in Jersey?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

from what I've seen and heard of snow in New Jersey, that 15k would barely be a down payment for snow insurance. And most policies there have to be paid in full, up front before the season starts.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

North to south over 80, east to west that's about it. Most snow policies here, paid in full before the season starts. When I had to bid the town, you had to have the policy in place with the town listed as an additional insured. If you did not win the bid, o well. This is why now, any money I make from snow is an extra, I do not rely on it for income.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Randall Ave said:


> North to south over 80, east to west that's about it. Most snow policies here, paid in full before the season starts. When I had to bid the town, you had to have the policy in place with the town listed as an additional insured. If you did not win the bid, o well. This is why now, any money I make from snow is an extra, I do not rely on it for income.


It's a sliver.... N/S 170m E/W 70m which equals Colorado's 2 largest countys....


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

The county I live in is 170 miles north south and 143 miles east west. So almost double the size of New Jersey. But, the population is only around 150,000 people and that's still too many for me.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

My county is roughly 481 square miles. Just about 493,000 people. Then add another 40,000 illegals.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Randall Ave said:


> My county is roughly 481 square miles. Just about 493,000 people. Then add another 40,000 illegals.


My uncles ranch in Wyo is 525sq miles, population 4 people, 25 horses, 3 dogs, 50-60 cats, 15 chickens and aboot 800 beef.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

My town is 3 square miles, about 4000 people.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

BUFF said:


> My uncles ranch in Wyo is 525sq miles, population 4 people, 25 horses, 3 dogs, 50-60 cats, 15 chickens and aboot 800 beef.


That's what I want. Minus the cats lol.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

ktfbgb said:


> That's what I want. Minus the cats lol.


Cats are feral, no rodents in house or barns and they keep the bunny population around the house/barn in check.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Randall Ave said:


> My county is roughly 481 square miles. Just about 493,000 people. Then add another 40,000 illegals.


Yeah, we're basically the same. 480 sq miles and 566k people, not including illegals. Too many damn people, I'll tell you that. Just our city alone has 5 high schools, 8 middle schools, 35 elementary schools. It just keeps growing....


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

BUFF said:


> Cats are feral, no rodents in house or barns and they keep the bunny population around the house/barn in check.


Ok feral cats are a different story. We've had them before and need a new one. Since the last one disappeared our mouse problem in the barns is really bad.

I was picturing a house full of cats lol.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

We've always had cats as pets. Have a hay field behind us. They keep the field mise under control. But that many cats are barn cats.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

let's try to get back on topic please Thumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ktfbgb said:


> That's a whole lot of wear and tear on your front end driving that far every time with a plow attached to the truck.
> 
> And you said he paid about 15K last season. So after expenses like commercial auto insurance, liability insurance, permits (we don't know where you are located or if you need them), salt, maintenance on the truck, plow and spreader, fuel, etc. etc. you might clear more like 6K. Then with the 6K you have to make your truck payment, plow payment, spreader payment, and pay income taxes. So sounds like you will be paying your family member to move their snow for them.


You forgot $3-4K for a new transmission.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You forgot $3-4K for a new transmission.


Yes I did.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You forgot $3-4K for a new transmission.


Run a full trip, they saves transmissions.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

BUFF said:


> Run a full trip, they saves transmissions.


Oy


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Run a full trip, they saves transmissions.


Sew wut duz a chain-lift dew?


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Sew wut duz a chain-lift dew?


Stacks higher :hammerhead:


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## Avalanche 2500 (Dec 31, 2015)

The only way I would travel 80 miles ea. way, Would be to visit Family, Friends . That's in my wife's car a 2016
Malibu Ls 1.5 liter @ 27mpg+ .W/O a 700lbs+ hanging off the front end !!!


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I would drive 80 miles to push snow for the right money...


15k is not even close thought...


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