# [B]Chevy or Ford[/B]



## CGLC (Dec 1, 2004)

I am currently shopping for a new/newer plow truck. In paging through this site, I have noticed that a lot of you guys are running Fords. In the past, I was always a Chevy man based purely on just my upbringing but, I was looking at a lot of the newer F-250's and am kinda having a change of heart. I am interested in hearing real world experience with both brands of trucks and how they have held up over the years. I know that this in not going to be a right or wrong type of question and a lot of it depends on personal preference but any real life experience and opinions based on facts would be really appreciated.


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## PlowKid150 (Nov 3, 2003)

CGLC, Ok, my opinion on these two vehicles is Ford is a better plow truck, and a better truck for putting heavy loads in the bed... The new F-250 or F-350 is just a beast. I currently have an 04 gasser F250, and have ordered an 05 F-350 with the 6.0 diesel. The SD with the 6.0 is purely unstoppable. For example, the new design of the Ford f-250 and 350 has been brought down from the F-550. IT can tow 19,200 pounds, hold a 10 foot plow, and throw like 5600 pounds in the bed. Try that with a Chevy 3/4 ton. No way. Not to mention hanging a plow on a chevy is always a headache, having to deal with timbrens and all that nonsense. Get a Ford man

Kevin


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## Bolts Indus. (Dec 22, 2003)

You may as well buy one ford and get it out of your system,then you can go back to chev. The Ford will be cheaper to buy too.???


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## A&M Snowplowing (Aug 10, 2004)

I love my 2 Chevy's. I even almost bought another one this year. But decide to hold out for a bigger boat.


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## z71Worker (Nov 8, 2004)

depends on what you use it for.. plow your own place a few times a year or commercial plowing and hauling your big boat all summer long? Ford will work harder for you, but how often are you going to use its potential? Chevy has a MUCH better ride quality in my opinion.. But as you stated, its yours that counts!!


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## CGLC (Dec 1, 2004)

So what i'm kinda hearing is that Ford is more of a work truck and chevy is more a luxury vehicle? I would be using my truck for plowing in the winter and pulling my lawn trailer in the summer, so all work and a little play.


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## Chevytruck85 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Chevy*

its up to you if u like laying in the slush with salt falling on your face wile you work on your truck then go with a ford, but if u want a dependible plow truck go with a chevy!


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## caz1 (Nov 20, 2004)

all i can say is what my vehicle salesman tells me their all junk witch one do you want to drive but when it came time for me to buy my first truck i looked at what all the major road builders in my area were running 95% were fords :and thats what i run today and will always run :salute:


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## 84deisel (Dec 2, 2003)

why is it that some chevy truck owners have to bash ford trucks but the ford truck owners do not bash chevy truck owners? Buy a truck that meets your specifacations,price,and color and if its used make sure you get a complete chckout before you buy.


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## redhenny16 (Feb 13, 2004)

I've owned Fords in the past and I don't think I would buy another one. My current truck is a 2002 GMC 2500HD crew cab short bed, with a Duramax/Allison. I love this truck, handles my Boss 8'2" V blade with ease. And it pulls our fifth wheel camper like it's not even there. It is very reliable, it's quiet, gets good fuel economy and rides great.


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## dieselfreak (Nov 22, 2004)

*ford is the way to go*



PlowKid150 said:


> CGLC, Ok, my opinion on these two vehicles is Ford is a better plow truck, and a better truck for putting heavy loads in the bed... The new F-250 or F-350 is just a beast. I currently have an 04 gasser F250, and have ordered an 05 F-350 with the 6.0 diesel. The SD with the 6.0 is purely unstoppable. For example, the new design of the Ford f-250 and 350 has been brought down from the F-550. IT can tow 19,200 pounds, hold a 10 foot plow, and throw like 5600 pounds in the bed. Try that with a Chevy 3/4 ton. No way. Not to mention hanging a plow on a chevy is always a headache, having to deal with timbrens and all that nonsense. Get a Ford man
> 
> Kevin


Man Ford is the way to go and i have had a ford for all my life and i am not going to change to a Dodge or a Chevrolet ever. Ford has a lot of pulling power and snowplowing power but its my opinion. but don't get me wrong Chevrolet is a good truck but if you want to do some massive plowing get a ford and you will have no problems with the nice sweet F350 dam she is a beast (6.0) diesel noting can stop it nothing. its your choice but i recommend a Ford to you.

Ford F350 6.0 diesel with a Western pro 8.5 ultramount its Sweet


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

84deisel, is right, why is it the chevy dudes have to knock the ford guys, and the ford guys just have to take it. i've driven and worked on both. now i have a 04 f350 with a 6.0 deisel. i'm not a big fan of the GMs, but thats not because i'm a ford guy, its mainly because i like the superduty pickups better than the HDs. The HDs are like 5 inchs off the ground at the frame (exaderating yes) but close to. the ford SD look has been something i've liked since it came out in 99. i personally would get the Superduty. it is a nice truck.


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## Makndust (Feb 6, 2004)

Personally, I own an 87 Chevy Silverado (GM Goodwrench 454 w/ 427 truck cam). I'm in love with that old truck. I am really wondering why I haven't seen anything posted from the Dodge guys. I have thought that the Dodge would be pretty good because of the solid front axle. I like Chevys ride the best. My work truck is a Chevy HD 2500 and rides like a caddy. I have always been afraid of the ford front end because of the / \ probelm with the front wheels (seems like they look like they lean in). I don't know if Ford has fixed that or not. Seems like it would be hard on tires. So lets hear about the Dodges.


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

fords came out with one of the first Independent suspensions in 1980. they ended it in 96 on the f150s. they did have some tire wear issues with that setup. but over all it was stronger than chevys torsion bar setup they came out with in 88. chevys were known for there ball joint problems and tire where issues with that setup just as much as the fords. ford hasn't runn the Twin traction beam suspension since 97, and that was on the f250s, which didn't have very many tire wear problems because it was leaf sprung. so between the two chevy and ford, you probably can't go wrong. i just like the superduty better than the rest.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

A chevy will ride and handle better and the Ford has a bit stiffer frame and a Dodge has the strongest front axle by far if you plan to plow with a diesel but Dodge trucks still lack a bit otherwise (in my opinion anyway). It is a tuff choice between a GM and a Ford though. If ride and handling matters go GM, if you want a more trucky truck go Ford. Also ford used a deeper first gear in their HD trucks with gas motors (deeper than a 4L80/85) which is a bit better for plowing too.


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## Boondox (Sep 4, 2004)

CGLC said:


> So what i'm kinda hearing is that Ford is more of a work truck and chevy is more a luxury vehicle? I would be using my truck for plowing in the winter and pulling my lawn trailer in the summer, so all work and a little play.


In the winter my Chevy plows the farm. The rest of the year it hauls hay in 50 bale loads, firewood, stone to rebuild the walls with, tractor implements, gravel and loads of composted sheep sh!t. Never been stuck. Never been unable to do what I asked it to do. Don't care much for the rear disk brakes, but that's my only complaint.

Pete


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

*CHEVY or FORD?.........*

Neither....

GMC!!!

The GM's can haul more weight too.


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## butters (Nov 16, 2004)

My Dad used to sell cars at a Ford dealership which later became a Chevy dealer. They had more Chevy/GMC trucks in the shop by a big margin than the Fords. Granted this was several years ago, but overall I have been a fan of Fords for heavier duty trucks and Toyotas for light trucks. We used to beat the snot out of my buddys Toyota and all it did is run forever.

I do, however, have several friends with newer Chevys and they seem to be more reliable than they were in the past. I own an 89 Chevy 1500 that I inherited from my Grandfather and it has been a pretty good truck for the abuse it has been put through so I guess alot of it is luck of the draw. If I were in the market for a new truck I would get an F-250.

Just my $.02.


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## plowman350 (Jul 19, 2004)

*For plowing or personal?*

I have used both and found this:

Fords:

Feels beefier when you drive. I like the styling of the truck better, and its payload seems higher. More comfortable ride. VERY large turning radius, and harder to see the plow when you're coming to the edge of a parking lot.

Chevy/GM:

Much lower profile for plowing....you can actually see the plow and distance judgements are much easier. Smaller turning radius, more control and maneuverability. Doesn't feel as "beefy" and powerful, and you sense that the truck is working a little harder.

For myself, I bought a Ford F350 Crew Cab with the V10. It's a monster truck for plowing, but my decision was based on the following:
1. Better styling (imo)
2. Beefier looks and feel
3. More comfortable ride
4. right price at the right time

As far as comparing equipment, you can buy either truck to do the job if its equipped properly...adding leaf springs or suspension components usually aren't difficuly or expensive. Either truck does the job. It just depends on what you like to drive....some people have different qualities that are more important than others.....

Since its my personal truck and I only plow 10 nights a year, the other 355 days are more important than the few nights I'm plowing.

Both trucks can do the job and I would buy either one if I found a good deal!


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

actually the ford and teh dodge had the same front axle. both are High pinnion dana 60s if i'm not mistaken. actually i'm not sure but i think the dodge was low pinnion. the innser shafts are 35spline (1.5" thick) and the outer shafts are 30 spline (1.25" something i think). dodge did have a hybrid dana 70 or 80 at one point but it had its problems, and still had many of the same sized parts as the regular dana 60. the newest dodges have a AAM 9.25. the 9.25 is the size of the ring gear in the front axle in inchs. the fords dana 60 has a 9.75" ring gear, right now out of the 3/4 tons and 1 tons ford has a stronger axle.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

Are you talking "stronger" as in torque capacity or load capacity?

I don't think a front axle see's all that much brute torque, as the rear is always helping out.

As for strength in load capacity, that is up to spring and axle capacity which are all stated in their respective door jambs/vehicle brochures.


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

well the dana 60 in a ford has thicker tubes and things like that too. but you'd be suprised how much torque goes though a front axle. especially when you put it in reverse adn back up quick. its mearly nothing but stronger materials. they will all do what you want them too, garanteed. and i agree about chevys having a better ride. its really not a big deal, i just know alot obout component strength becasue i'm usually building rock buggys that need to have the strongest possible axle combos and transfcase and transmissions.


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## dpildner (Oct 19, 2004)

Hi All,

I just drove my 2003 Silverado 1500HD 2400 miles to Florida and back and was very pleased.

I also hung a plow on it and the front doesn't drop much when I lift it. (No Timbrens)

No Luke , Don't go to the dark side ( Buy a Chevy)

Dave :salute:


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## Duplantisjj (Sep 28, 2004)

Not all Chevy owner bash Fords..  Just as not all Ford owners bash Chevys...I have seen it occur from both ends..

I bought my truck, not based on brand loyalty, but based on available features; the test drive, what I wanted for my purpose at the time, options, etc. I've never been a devoted Chevy or Ford fan but have owned both. This time around I picked the Chevy because it had a nicer ride, interior was bit nicer, and (main reason) we couldn't fit our newborn car seat in the Ford Ext Cab. Also test drove the Tundra (angain carseat wouldn't fit). I know it sounds small but it felt important at the time and I didn't plan on plowing when I was shopping trucks.

With that said I like both the F250SD and the Chevy 2500HD...They both seem like great rigs...either one could be my next truck. Make your own choice based on what YOU like...... :waving:


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## REED384 (Nov 17, 2002)

*truck*

get a real truck get dodge


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## spacolee (Oct 26, 2004)

In my other job I drove lots of chevs nice ride. one of the reasons I buy fords is for the turning radius when I am plowing I find that important. Chev did come out with the quad steering anyone have one on here?


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

chevys are nice enough trucks. but for me i think a HD/SD truck should have a solid front axle (truth be told i think all trucks should). but since ford and dodge are the only ones that do chevy was out of the question. dodge was also becuase i find the salesmen to have an attitude problm as in buy it dont buy it i dont care well i didn't and i can honestly say i love my 04 F350 PSD. as for ride quility truck rides nice they all do but chevy has a nicer ride becuase the independent front suspension. i also like that the fords ride so much higher. i think any of the big 3 you cant go wrong i just happen to like the fords better. i also think the fords look cooler than the chevys. JMO


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## CGLC (Dec 1, 2004)

I noticed that 2500HD seems to sag a little more then the other Fords with the plow all the way up why is that? Would that be a negative for Chevy? Also how have the Ford motor been for holding up over time? A lot of Chevy guys always say that Fords have more down time, is that correct?


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Now if GM would just put a solid front axle under HD trucks with CV joints too as Ujoints in a solid front axle sux when making a turn under power and that is one real nice thing about GM IFS.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

i have owned 3 new fords since 99 and they all were good solid dependable trucks. 99 was a ranger and totally awesome little truck. no problms except the electronic shift on the fly was trying to engage when i wasn't. it was fixed out of warrenty under warrenty if that makes sense. 01 f150 good solid dependable truck but had a vibration that was never able to be fixed. so far with my 04 F350 no problms except fan clutch. runs like a wild beast best truck i have ever owned bar none 23,000 miles so far. so long term longevity cant comment on.


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## SIPLOWGUY (Mar 21, 2002)

My first truck was a 61 F100 I bought in 1979. I now drive an 04 F350. I've had alot of trucks since that 61 F100 and all but 2 were Fords. I had a 77 Chevy and an 81 Dodge. I like Fords the best! Good luck with your decision!


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

spacolee said:


> one of the reasons I buy fords is for the turning radius when I am plowing I find that important. Chev did come out with the quad steering anyone have one on here?


Ummm....I believe GM has the others beat in turning radius, by a substantial amount too. Ford is know to have the worst.

Anyone care to search for the numbers?


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

For all the talk about front axle 'beef', has anyone actually broken a GM IFS axle?

Having busted a Dana 60 front in my own truck, let me assure you that nothing from any brand is bulletproof.

My friend's history with 4x4 trucks has lead him back to the GMC 2500HD. Previous two were a '98 Ram 3500 and a PSD '9? Ford F350. The Dodge gave constant brake and seal problems on the front and the rear suspension was worn out in about 100k kilometers. Also wrecked the front swaybar links, and were something insane like $300 each... 5th gear fell apart (good ole' NV4500), and the leather driver's seat was splitting very early in life too. Fit-and-finish was really nice though.

The Ford PSD was also a POS. Pulled like a freight train when it ran, but constant electrical issues. He got rid of that one very quickly for that reason. I also recall fit-and-finish being very poor as well.

He had originally sworn to never own a GM truck again, but in all honesty he got a real badly abused '89 back in the early 90s... truck had been thrashed (and he was no better) and wondered why it was always dead. He was in his late teens at the time and really drove the piss outta it. Truck probably would have been fine but he "modified" it (note the quotes, I wouldn't call them good mods). He was forced to grow up a bit with the next truck. 

Personally, I've never had reason to complain with any of my GM products so I will stay with them.


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## spacolee (Oct 26, 2004)

TLS said:


> Ummm....I believe GM has the others beat in turning radius, by a substantial amount too. Ford is know to have the worst.
> 
> Anyone care to search for the numbers?


Ok I thought i was in trouble with that quote i never looked it up but ford is the best for turning 50.4 dodge second 52 Chev 54.5. I just drove lots of chevs and could tell it did not turn like a ford that was from ford.com. I don't mind Chev but Chev lovers do call down fords lots why is that.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

spacolee said:


> Ok I thought i was in trouble with that quote i never looked it up but ford is the best for turning 50.4 dodge second 52 Chev 54.5. I just drove lots of chevs and could tell it did not turn like a ford that was from ford.com. I don't mind Chev but Chev lovers do call down fords lots why is that.


becuase talk is all they have. chevys just dont hold a candle to ford or dodge. again jmo


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

on the other hand when it comes to older trucks chevy wins that hands down


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## intlco (Nov 15, 2004)

*Ford - Chevy - Dodge - The FACTS*

Our company buys several new trucks every year, and we buy base on bids. In the past year, we have use all 3 of the big crew cab 1 tons and I will give you the facts. 
Base on the fact that we have the worst conditions here in montana, gravel/mud roads that are wash boards, and factor in below zero temps.

The Dodge rides the worst. The seats are not confortable and will cause back pain if you drive as much as we do. The frame is no good for mounting equipment because it is round.

The Ford also rides rough. The front end does seem a bit tougher, but the rear will not hold heavy loads. Also, the powerstroke will kill you will all the smoke, and we've had tons of problems with the tranny's going bad.

The Chevy has the best 4WD traction in mud and snow. The Duramax is by far the best Diesel and the Allison is great and does same on brakes.
The rear springs are very heavy duty and can take very heavy loads.
Only bad part is that the front end does go down with the plow weight. Also tire vibration has been the other problem.

Personally, we don't promote any of these trucks. We buy strickly on bids.
But we have noticed that Dodge has no trade value.
Ford trade value is also very low.
But Chevy trade value is high. We trade these units every two years. And it was near impossible to trade off our 2003 Ford SD and Dodge Rams. They only brought 9K for 1 tons.
Same truck in the Chevy brought 20K


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## spacolee (Oct 26, 2004)

PSDF350 said:


> on the other hand when it comes to older trucks chevy wins that hands down


Yep that is so true I did like the 74-79 but the 80s were so bad just like some of the music.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

the 80s had good one up to about 87. i had an 83 k10 that truck was great i had lots of fun with that truck took a licking kept on ticking.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

spacolee said:


> Ok I thought i was in trouble with that quote i never looked it up but ford is the best for turning 50.4 dodge second 52 Chev 54.5. I just drove lots of chevs and could tell it did not turn like a ford that was from ford.com. I don't mind Chev but Chev lovers do call down fords lots why is that.


I don't know where you got your info but......

* 2004 Chevrolet Truck Silverado 2500HD Regular Cab 4WD LS Long Box 43.8'
2004 Dodge Truck Ram 3500 Regular Cab 4X4 SLT LWB 48.9'
2004 Ford Truck F-250 SD Regular Cab 4x4 137-in. WB XLT Styleside 50.4'*


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## spacolee (Oct 26, 2004)

Wow would I like to buy a used ford for 9 k in Canada they sell for 16 to 18k that is true Chev does hold the value but you pay more. but if you are only getting 9k for ford and 20k for Chevy I would lower my self and buy a Chev.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

intlco i must admite you are probably the first to ever mention the durajunk as the best deisil motor out there. i think most will agree the best deisil out there is the cummins. as for traction that has to do with tires not truck.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

'73 thru '87 were all the same and all tough as nails. My '82 is still going strong on its second body and third engine and 42gazillion miles, most of which has been plowing. 

Ford and Chevy owners love to hate each other. It's an age-old thing, so don't take it so personally. Watch'em all stand together to fight the imports, now THATS funny!

Check all the magazine reviews for the diesel ratings--everyone that I have read has put the Duramax as the best diesel engine in pickup trucks handsdown. Cummins is a sweet motor too....

It's really all in what badge you like the most


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

The Duramax is a world class engine. Decades of engineering beyond the Cummins. Not knocking the Cummins, but it's at the end of it's lifespan.

Traction was due to the IFS. Tires can play a lot, but an IFS truck will put the traction down better than any solid front axle.

Did you guys miss my turning radius figures?


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## spacolee (Oct 26, 2004)

TLS said:


> I don't know where you got your info but......
> 
> * 2004 Chevrolet Truck Silverado 2500HD Regular Cab 4WD LS Long Box 43.8'
> 2004 Dodge Truck Ram 3500 Regular Cab 4X4 SLT LWB 48.9'
> 2004 Ford Truck F-250 SD Regular Cab 4x4 137-in. WB XLT Styleside 50.4'*


Ford.com all crew cabs they do a all trucks take a look. I don't buy reg cabs i did not look them up. let me know what you find becouse that is what it told me. unless it is not the truth where did you find yours.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

dont know where you come up with the ifs helping put traction where it needs to be. i get off road ofton and thats the first i ever heard that.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

This is wheelbase ALL CREW CAB LONG BEDS:

*2004 Ford Truck F-250 SD Crew Cab 4x4 172-in. WB XL Styleside 172.4
2004 GMC Truck Sierra 3500 Crew Cab 4WD SLE Long Box SRW 167.0
2004 Dodge Truck Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4X4 LARAMIE LWB 160.5*

This is turning radius same trucks:

*
2004 Ford Truck F-250 SD Crew Cab 4x4 172-in. WB XL Styleside 50.4
2004 GMC Truck Sierra 3500 Crew Cab 4WD SLE Long Box SRW 49.6
2004 Dodge Truck Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4X4 LARAMIE LWB 52.0
*

The superior traction of IFS isn't really debatable.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

That FORD.com site is screwy. I changed the FORD to a REGULAR cab F-250 SD, and it replied with the same 50.4' turning radius of their Crew Cab.

They're wrong on their OWN brand, I wouldn't bet the farm on their competitors figures.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

quote wouldn't work. but i would like to know why you think IFS having better traction isn't debatable. might it have something to do with the fact that you own ifs and are just trying to make yourself feel better. truth is i would like to know so educate me.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

I've owned both straight axle and IFS 4x4's.

The IFS will keep the contact patch of the tire LEVEL throughout it's entire travel.

I'll just let you figure the rest out.


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## intlco (Nov 15, 2004)

You get out here on our muddy county roads and see how many fords are stuck in 12 inches of mud and tires don't mean sh*t. We all use the same BFG's.
Fords limited slip and Dodge the same only kicks sideways. 

You wanna get through mud, you gotta have a chevy.

#2) The Duramax is a much better engine than Cummins. It is built off of European technolgy. We put 100-160K on our Diesels a year and the the Cummins has far too much oil leaks.
The Duramax is the only engine that is lasting us almost 500K. We just sold off a 2001 D-max with 495K. Engine had no problems during the time we used it, only had to replace injectors a few times. We did oil changes every 3000 and kept up regular maintence.

Our 2001 Ford SD 7.3 went 118K and the motor and tranny died. It was a total loss. Cause it cost more to replace them than the truck is worth.

Not to mention, we did have a 2003 Dodge Cummins Engine blow at 17K. and we did loose an 2003 Allison Tranny at 150K. So all truck got their problems.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

i dont know if you know it or not but i live in the sticks o.k so i know about mud roads and what not. i am also a logger and hound hunter so i also know about getting off road. but i will give you that in deep mud ifs is good but thats it. add any uneven ground lets see whos stuck and whos not.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

An IFS can articulate better than a SFA.

And they have a higher ground clearance.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

you are so very wrong on better atricilation. quess thats why all the serious rock crawlers and off road rigs have ifs oh wait they dont the have a live axle. gezz wonder why they call it that. could it have something to do with it actually moving. just for the record i have also had ifs on a couple trucks 99 ranger and a 01 150.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

One minute you want me to explain something to you, the next your Gods gift to rock crawling.

Your just too cool for me.


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## davink (Nov 22, 2004)

spacolee said:


> Wow would I like to buy a used ford for 9 k in Canada they sell for 16 to 18k that is true Chev does hold the value but you pay more. but if you are only getting 9k for ford and 20k for Chevy I would lower my self and buy a Chev.


Personally I would go and buy the Ford or the Dodge, but buy it used for the 9k. Let them take the hit on the depriciation and then get it. I can't believe that there is that much wrong with it with them trading it every two years, there has to be MANY more mile in them, and with what you save on the cost, you can afford a few repairs.

But seriously, I have been shopping used trucks, and if that is all that you got for a two year old Diesel Dodge or Ford 1 ton, you must have dropped it off a cliff before you sold it. You really must beat the living sh*t out of it. I mean I know there resale is lower than Chevy, but give me a break.


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

TSL, you have that way wrong. a IFS rig will not even come close to articulating as a soild front axle...period. unless you had I beams for suspension on the solid axle truck. IFS has a better ride due to it having less unsprung weight. a solid front axle will offer more traction than IFS because the weight distrabution left to right acts like a lever, when the left goes up, it pushes down on the right. its a fact. go to any 4wheeling website and you'll find this is true. plus a soild front axle offers constant ground clearance. IFS when you hit a bump will actually get quiet close to the ground. PSDF350 you are right. actually they did build one IFS rock buggy, i think it placed last.


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## Bad Luck (Sep 30, 2004)

All big three make solid truck IMO. 

However, 

I'm obviously biased to GM products but if I were to buy a truck that I was going to lay a beating on, not care what happens too, and dump in a couple of years I would buy a Ford or Dodge. They look tough out of the box, have good ground clearance and are packaged nicely in Work form. If I were looking for a dual duty truck to take an ass kicking and be used as a daily driver, and I was planning on keeping it a long time, I would buy a GMC or Chevy. 

All of the trucks we use at work are Ford F-450's 7.4's natural and turbo, 6.0's and on, all DRW and EVERY single one of them (out of 14!) is down at least once a month for something busting. Longevity is not in their vocabulary on a severe duty truck. Even in International fitment.

On the other hand, our tow truck for the race boat, and road service truck 37ft Cigarette, weighing in at 15,539lbs loaded with fuel, well over the rated hitch capacity is still pulling like an ox with almost NO breakdowns in parts. It's a 92 GMC 3500 Ext Cab LB DRW w/ 454. Truck is a tank. 

And Dodge just make a mean looking Ram....and Cummins still manages to squeeze more torgue and HP out of 6 than the other two do in 8......

anyone see the new Power Wagon yet

Just stay away from teh Jap Jobs and we'll all be ok.


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## spacolee (Oct 26, 2004)

spacolee said:


> Ford.com all crew cabs they do a all trucks take a look. I don't buy reg cabs i did not look them up. let me know what you find because that is what it told me. unless it is not the truth where did you find yours.


All I know is when i drive a Chev it does not turn sharp and in plowing to me it is really important. Traction somewhat because i do mostly parking lots. A friend of mine is a Chev lover and he admits ford does turn sharp but he does not care he loves his ride. My ford rides like a lumber wagon. Where did you get your info from.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

Where's the plow on that.  

To each his own. I'll take my IFS GM product over a Ford or Dodge any day of the week.

Talk about GM guys bashing Ford guys.

How bout some help here GM guys. I'm dying here. These New Hampsha and Vermot guys are shooting me and my dead horse.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

spacolee said:


> Where did you get your info from.


Several sources but I since closed those browser windows, as the New England boys shot them out. But your source was wrong on their own brand. So it really doesn't matter. I just did a search for "2500 turning radius" and hit up ones that listed what I wanted.

I just copied and pasted them.

Fords have always been known for poor turning radius.


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

haha that would be cold with a plow! hey us ford guys have to stand up and fight sometimes! payup


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

Robber great picture worth more than a thousand words shows exactly what i was talking about thanks. 


TSL what was with the attack? i never attacked you. just trying to have a discusion. i have not bashed chevy even though i wont own another ifs truck again. which meens chevy. unless they get on the ball.

again let me state as i did in earlier post.that you really cant go wrong with any of the big 3. but for me personaly i just dont like the way plows hang on the chevys becuase they just sit too low, and thats becuase of the ifs. again jmo not a bash.


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## Tim1075 (Feb 14, 2000)

I have 5500 miles on my 05 f-250, 6.0 diesel, 6spd trans. I love the truck, problem free and POWERFUL!!!!!!!


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## rclay11541 (Oct 26, 2004)

*Dodge!*

Althoug i currently am running ford the Dodge 3500 is a freaking beast! Loads of weight in the back, loads of weight in the front dosent' even faze the thing plus its got the 6500 or 650 cummins turbo diesil in it.

Spell Checker...


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

i to have a 6.0, and hands down i think its the best desiel right now. i know it had some problems in 03, but so did the duramax. this is just my personal opinnion!! its deffenelty the most powerful. well i guess not anymore but it was in 04  around here in central vermont a lot of people have problems with the duramax motor, and the fords seem to be working better in the cold. guys, not saying its the same everywhere. just what i've noticed here.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

The IFS vs. SFA debate is missing the point here, people.

The majority of offroaders use the SFA due to simplicity and strength, the two most important factors when offroading/beating your vehicle into submission. 

I don't know about you guys, but I do not plow any 45 degree sideslopes!!! The simple fact is that for ON-ROAD use, including plowing, the independant suspension keeps the tires square to the road surface whether it is going thru a pothole, a highspot, etc. etc. and for that reason the footprint is gripping. 

A good example for you is the Corvette. Everyone knows the 'Vette. Ever since 1963 they have been built with four wheel independant suspension. Why? Because on the road, where it is designed to be, the car will grip better because of the square footprint. This is the exact reason why a similarly equipped Camaro will never handle as well as a Corvette.

On a further note, remember that you can get stuck with anything. Usually it has more to do with the driver than the truck. Poor judgement, lack of skill, not knowing when to quit etc.

Remember, offroaders, why you let the tire pressures waaaaaaaay down? Basically you are making the tire squirm and bend in an effort to get the footprint to sit on the ground even when the tire is on an angle. Sound familiar? That was the theory behind the IFS!

Each has its merits yet for a plow truck I seriously doubt it would matter that much. Pick whichever you are comfortable with.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

derekbroerse said:


> The IFS vs. SFA debate is missing the point here, people.
> 
> The majority of offroaders use the SFA due to simplicity and strength, the two most important factors when offroading/beating your vehicle into submission.
> 
> ...


good points. but for me my truck is a work truck it needs to get me of road, not 4 wheeling just off road also i am a hunter which also gets me off road. if you are always on pavement then what you said matters if not......


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

That's not to say that an IFS equipped vehical can't make it to the hunt camp or to the job site.

There's a very big difference between going there and going up the Rubicon Trail...

Remember, pro's and con's are tradeoffs. The manufacturers are just using their judgement as to which is the best ratio of each, and different people have different needs. Buy to suit.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

rclay11541 said:


> Althoug i currently am running ford the Dodge 3500 is a freaking beast! Loads of weight in the back, loads of weight in the front dosent' even faze the thing plus its got the 6500 or 650 cummins turbo diesil in it.
> 
> Spell Checker...


Stout truck but I have a old OBS chevy 1 ton with factory HD suspension (SRW) and nothing I every place on or in it as phased it either and it is just gas powered too. It is a bit of a "beast" too even with its IFS. It is how the truck is rated and equipped that makes it a "beast" or not, not always by its brand.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

derek as you may have noticed in previous post i have owen a couple ifs trucks. in my way of thinking the straight axle is best for my uses. especially when it comes to hunting becuase it is not to get to a camp, it is to go where i need to when i need to (hound hunter). but i am definitly not saying ifs doesn't work becuase it does. i just peronally like and prefer solid front axels.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

*get a real truck*

My experiences with fords hasn't been the best. We got a rent to go fix some chisel plows up north and the bench seat broke. Radio shortly after called it quits. Have you ever seen under the hood of these things? Its nothing like a pile o' plastic under there!! You guys wanna say that they're tough as nails? One of the drivers was cut off by a semi and the straps we had in the bed went through the front when he slammed on the brakes!! Chevy's have a sweet ride and drive. Better value and better resale. Hell even my dad's 76 blazer still runs like the day he bought it and its had a plow on it most of its life. I tell ya ford musta paid Toby Keith to do those commercials cuz its not worth being booed off stage.

Is that a little better TLS?


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Old Chevies, especailly one powered by small block 350's have a reliabilty reputation that is not really equaled by any others and the shear number of them too out there (350's) as well even today.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

blade_masters said:


> Is that a little better TLS?


Better late then never! 

I guess you guys didn't hear me when I yelled "cover me, I'm goin in!"


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

chevys, wow are you kidding me? reliability is mistaken for the number of replacement part vendors there are for chevys. something fails on your chevy and you could though a new motor in it in an afternoon, because everyone has a 350 in there living room. thats because i'm always working on one, and same with the 4.3, always broken down. jk

on IFS or IRS which you are talking about with the corvette, picture this... if you are on a side hill, the body of the vehicle will lean right? ok so if you have IRS (lets say you are leaning towards the left) you will put more pressure on your left tire, lightening up your right. now if you have a solid axle, (same side hill) you will put pressure on your left tire, but you will also transfer the weight to the right tire though the axle tube. just like if you took a pencil and pushed down on the metal part the holds the eraser (not the eraser because its flexible) then try to pick up on the led end of the pencil. notice that it is harder to pick the pencil up pushing down on the other end than if you let go of the other end?

also IFS will only leave a square pattern if the two tires on that axle are on the same plane. but if you were to drive up on something with one tire, the other will not leave a square pattern, its pressure will be farther towards the outer sidewall. 

just food for thought.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Robber80 said:


> also IFS will only leave a square pattern if the two tires on that axle are on the same plane. but if you were to drive up on something with one tire, the other will not leave a square pattern, its pressure will be farther towards the outer sidewall.
> 
> just food for thought.


Not if the upper and lower control arms are properly sized and radiused. (GM is pretty good about this until a Ford TTB system)


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

well the thing you have to rember is a IFS setup will never let the top of the tire go in and the bottom go out. IFS will hold the tire in the same plane as the side of the vehicle, it wont let the tire come out of that plane. which is the same as a solid axle except instead of holding the tire in plane with the body, it holds the tires in plane with each other. so its possible to put on tire on something with a solid axle and have the outside of the opposite tire pivot out. thats why a solid axle flexs better, becasue it lets the tires aticulate with out the body and frame moving.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

robber there is no sense arguing with these guys. becuase they like there IFS chevys. no amount of logic will convince them. i say let them think what they want. in there way of thinking ford and dodge are wrong for putting solid axles on there trucks. what they dont seem to realize is the reason chevy has the ifs is for a more car like ride. has nothing to do with making a truck a truck. oh just one more thing i wonder if they notice that the 4500/5500 searis trucks that come 4 wheel drive actually have solid axles (nice trucks to). geez wonder why they did that.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Robber80 said:


> well the thing you have to rember is a IFS setup will never let the top of the tire go in and the bottom go out. IFS will hold the tire in the same plane as the side of the vehicle, it wont let the tire come out of that plane. which is the same as a solid axle except instead of holding the tire in plane with the body, it holds the tires in plane with each other. so its possible to put on tire on something with a solid axle and have the outside of the opposite tire pivot out. thats why a solid axle flexs better, becasue it lets the tires aticulate with out the body and frame moving.


Now this makes no sense at all. While it may be possible to build in a lot of suspension travel with a solid axle they do not hold tires in correct plane unless both tires are on the same ground level and when one tire get bumbed, some of the energy goes to the other wheel to as well as it displaces its plane of operation too. With IFS when one whee is bumped, only one wheel gets bumped or effected.


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## davink (Nov 22, 2004)

*Something To Think About!!*

Now I am not siding with either group, Chevy or Ford. I would just simply like to point out something to all of you.

I have been shopping new trucks, and have looked at both, I amlwaning towards the Ford F250 SD SC , But here's the thought. Maybe there is something to be said for Chevy have IFS , I mean I have always prefered SFA for plowing, but now for 2005, even Ford is going to an IFS in there F250 SD. THis is why I have been having big thoughts on wether to buy a left over 04, or go with the 05.

Does anyone have an F 250 SD in the 05 model with the IFS with a plow on it. Does it hang as well as the 04 F 250 SD with a SFA?


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

davink said:


> Now I am not siding with either group, Chevy or Ford. I would just simply like to point out something to all of you.
> 
> I have been shopping new trucks, and have looked at both, I amlwaning towards the Ford F250 SD SC , But here's the thought. Maybe there is something to be said for Chevy have IFS , I mean I have always prefered SFA for plowing, but now for 2005, even Ford is going to an IFS in there F250 SD. THis is why I have been having big thoughts on wether to buy a left over 04, or go with the 05.
> 
> Does anyone have an F 250 SD in the 05 model with the IFS with a plow on it. Does it hang as well as the 04 F 250 SD with a SFA?


what are you talking about. ford is not going to ifs in there 250s they have gone coilsprings maybe that is what has you confused. they have ifs in there 150s and rangers but thats it.


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## SIPLOWGUY (Mar 21, 2002)

I bought an 04 for 2 reasons.
1. Great rebate and financing offers
2. Leaf springs up front
Although I heard the coils are 6,000 lb front end as opposed to 5200 lb for leaf I am never comfortable with the 1st year veh.


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## davink (Nov 22, 2004)

PSDF350 said:


> what are you talking about. ford is not going to ifs in there 250s they have gone coilsprings maybe that is what has you confused. they have ifs in there 150s and rangers but thats it.


You are correct, I was mistaken. I just double checked though, and you may find it funny that the info I recieved from a salesman at a Ford dealer states that with my plowing needs I would be better off with the 04 for the SFA, b/c the 05 goes to an IFS. That is where I was getting confused because the idiot that I was talking to apherently does not know what he is talking about.

Thanks for the correction though. I guess I will not be doing business with this guy, and I will be reading the WHOLE web listing.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

can we at least agree that imports do suck?


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

Tarkus, i dont' think i explained it right. but a solid axle does keep the tire in teh same plane. just like if you took the picture of my jeep, and put a board vertical accrossed the outside of the front tires. then put a angle finder on them, it would be the same angle for the left to right, well i guess upset since one is inverted and ones not. this is also true for IFS, and yes if you hit a bump with IFS the shock will be transfered through the frame to the other side just like SFA. now if you took a board and did the same thing on the IFS side and lifted 1 tire, it would hold the tires angle straight up and down with the fender. a SFA rig lifting a tire will result in the lifted tire having the top leaning into the wheel well.


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## George C (Aug 24, 2004)

I currently own both.
I'm here to tell you that the Ford is twice the truck.
As you can see, my Ford is too big to plow with. http://community.webshots.com/album/61345186ZDXRDF

I just bought this 2500HD to replace my old plow truck for a couple reasons.
First, I needed the extended cab/short wheelbase configuration so the truck and the plow would fit in my garage.
The GM's rear seat in the extended cab offers twice the room than what the Ford offers.
Second, my buddy owns a Chevy franchise and I had to buy something from him.

I'm not knocking the Chevy. I really love the truck and I see it giving me years of good service, but it simply isn't build anywhere near as tough as my Ford.


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## bolensdriver (Oct 12, 2004)

Chevytruck85 said:


> its up to you if u like laying in the slush with salt falling on your face wile you work on your truck then go with a ford, but if u want a dependible plow truck go with a chevy!


I agree.  I like Dodge as well though.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Robber80 said:


> Tarkus, i dont' think i explained it right. but a solid axle does keep the tire in teh same plane. just like if you took the picture of my jeep, and put a board vertical accrossed the outside of the front tires. then put a angle finder on them, it would be the same angle for the left to right, well i guess upset since one is inverted and ones not. this is also true for IFS, and yes if you hit a bump with IFS the shock will be transfered through the frame to the other side just like SFA. now if you took a board and did the same thing on the IFS side and lifted 1 tire, it would hold the tires angle straight up and down with the fender. a SFA rig lifting a tire will result in the lifted tire having the top leaning into the wheel well.


Not really because with a solid front axle when one tire goes up or down at one end of the "beam" the tire attached to the other end must follow it with angle changes in its plane of operation. Not so with true IFS.


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

thats exactly what i'm saying, IFS will do the same because the body/frame of the vehicle transfers the same motion as the beam of the solid axle does. bascially you can nave have a tire lean in and out with IFS in relation to the body or frame. but if the body and frame leaning than your tire is...period. and being that IFS doesn't let the axle flex without the body, the body and frame will flex. think about it, the only way IFS could let a tire lean and become flat with the other tire is on something is if the upper and lower control armes were adjustable though the suspension cycle.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Robber80 said:


> thats exactly what i'm saying, IFS will do the same because the body/frame of the vehicle transfers the same motion as the beam of the solid axle does. bascially you can nave have a tire lean in and out with IFS in relation to the body or frame. but if the body and frame leaning than your tire is...period. and being that IFS doesn't let the axle flex without the body, the body and frame will flex. think about it, the only way IFS could let a tire lean and become flat with the other tire is on something is if the upper and lower control armes were adjustable though the suspension cycle.


Not it does not, that why the call it IFS. The only link between the two tires is a stabilizer bar and how you equate a double wishbone front drive IFS to a solid axle on bumps is beyond me.


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## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

I've got a '97 Chevy k3500. I work it like a dog and depend on it every day with the family - 4 door crew cab. With one day of actualy down down since day one. I think both ford and chevy have great selling points. However, I also look at down time and history. Ford just has more cost of ownership. Search even this websites board on ford and see how they mostly talk about problems and what to do. The chevy side is talking about little inconviences light day time runing lights. 

You'll probably not hate either unless you get a lemon but, for my money I'll stay with the chevy' ( however, that new ford mustang looks pretty cool )


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

i'm not talking about bumps, i'm talking about if you were articulating. someone said that IFS will keep a square pattern on the ground and give better traction when on sides hills. no no no, you are right IFS does work much better in bumps. wow a solid axle is like tank in bumps, because you hit a bump with the left tire and it goes all though the hole axle and up the other spring as well. i had no idea you were talking about bumps and ride. i was just talking about how if you flex a IFS setup by driving up something forward you will not have a square patern becaue you have essentially angled the hole vehicle. so if you were on flat ground and drove up on a ramp with your right tire. the left tire will not be flat on the flat level ground. 

sorry for the misunderstanding, i'd never compare IFS to solid axle for ride, or bumps.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

My dad can beat up your dad!!! 

Seriously, people, remember this is a snowplowing forum, not an offroading forum. The guy asked about a truck for plowing, not to enter the Blackwater 500. These are the same arguements offered on the same topic over and over and over again. Just look it up in a search on how many times this has been talked about. Check the same search on Pirate4x4 or any others too. It's been a dead horse for a long long time yet the endless beatings continue.

Therefore, if you really need to worry about articulation while plowing, then seriously you'd better pick up the phone and call your City Works Department b/c they are obviously having too much coffee and donuts and not spending enough time repairing the roads.

I couldn't give a ratsass about articulation or whether or not my tires stay in plane, or that last 1/8 of a turn of the wheel of traction before it slips etc. or not with my truck. It is brute strength and nothing but beef. NONE of the manufacturers build them like that anymore, and that is a fact. No one will ever change anyone elses mind on this topic, mainly because people have such polar (no pun intended) opposite feelings on the matter.

I swear we need to send the lot of ya over to the Classic Buick Forum, where you can all argue why for some reason defying all logic, that the Buick 350 is better than any other engine known to man. 

Yes, all imports suck. Or at least we'd like to believe they do.


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## Turfmower (Dec 20, 2003)

PSDF350 said:


> intlco i must admite you are probably the first to ever mention the durajunk as the best deisil motor out there. i think most will agree the best deisil out there is the cummins. as for traction that has to do with tires not truck.


I have a Duramax/Allison never had a problem with it. I know Ford hard a lot of problems with their 6.0 PSD when it first came out but, I think they have them fixed now. Dodges had a weak trans but have a much better one now. Any one can sign up for any measage board and Troll the forms. because you seen it on the internet doesn't mean its true.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Robber80 said:


> i'm not talking about bumps, i'm talking about if you were articulating. someone said that IFS will keep a square pattern on the ground and give better traction when on sides hills. no no no, you are right IFS does work much better in bumps. wow a solid axle is like tank in bumps, because you hit a bump with the left tire and it goes all though the hole axle and up the other spring as well. i had no idea you were talking about bumps and ride. i was just talking about how if you flex a IFS setup by driving up something forward you will not have a square patern becaue you have essentially angled the hole vehicle. so if you were on flat ground and drove up on a ramp with your right tire. the left tire will not be flat on the flat level ground.
> 
> sorry for the misunderstanding, i'd never compare IFS to solid axle for ride, or bumps.


IFS is the best for bump and ride and articulation too if you have a deep enough pocketbook. The military Hummer is full IFS and its offroad prowness is well known.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

turfmower you trying to say i'm a troll?  


derek i think you miss the point if alls you are owning a truck for is plowing who cares. but most have trucks for many reasons. not everyone lives in the city and only drives on pavement.

let me ask you ifs guys this. why is it they dont seem to hold a plow as well as a straight axle?

just thought i'd beat this dead horse a little more.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

PSDF350 said:


> let me ask you ifs guys this. why is it they dont seem to hold a plow as well as a straight axle?


That's a matter of opinion.

A couple of cranks on the T-Bars and your right up there.

Want the smoother ride back in the summer....crank them back down.

5 minute operation.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

TLS said:


> That's a matter of opinion.
> 
> A couple of cranks on the T-Bars and your right up there.
> 
> ...


By design they are not that strong in a GM truck and they are a conmpramised in design for cost and smoothness of operation and size or components invovled. When you pull hard with a striaght axle, all the major forces are contained on axle, even torque steer between both wheels and it only has to pull frame along. With a IFS system you have the wheels trying to pull or twist forward which is controled by wishbones which are being compressed into frame at front and "pulling" out at back and then the steering linkage has to fight forces to collapse it from axle torque steer. None of this stress is seen on a straight axle front end. When you overload a GM IFS you can have ball joints and control arm bushings wear out and lots or steer linkages joints too. With a striaght axle the ball joint ot pivots on axle take all the load and tend to be a bit more wear resitance because they do no operate on several axis'es like the IFS joints do and just a few steering linkage joints.


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## TrailK10 (Oct 1, 2002)

One of the nice things about the 2500hd is the fact that you get a car like ride w/ a 3/4 ton which is something you wont get w/ an f-250. The fords do handle a snow plow alot better as far as the suspension but the Chevy does handle a plow and will get the job done And does for many theres no question about it. You also gotta remember that we are usually only running these trucks w/ plows 4 months out of the year the rest of the time we are driving them and pulling and hauling. As far as off-road goes id take the smoother ride of the chevy over the ford anyday. I'm sure these coil sprung 05 fords are alot better.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

> derek i think you miss the point if alls you are owning a truck for is plowing who cares. but most have trucks for many reasons. not everyone lives in the city and only drives on pavement.


No, my friend, I haven't missed any points. I think it is you who has missed the point. Let me quote the first line of the first post....

CGLC said:


> I am currently shopping for a new/newer plow truck.


You and Robber80 make some very valid points, however they are completely irrelevant to the question posed by CGLC--he wants a plow truck. He didn't say anything about climbing Mount Everest or driving in the desert overseas. He wants to know about how they plow for comparisons sake.

I have an S15 4x4 (IFS) and a full-sized SFA truck. For what I do, which is well beyond that of the average joe on road or off, either would work just fine.

Would someone bury the damn horse already? Its starting to smell....


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Speaking of CGLC, has he even been back to see the results, or did he just light a fire and walk away?  

Stir the pot, stir the pot....


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## Turfmower (Dec 20, 2003)

PSDF350 said:


> turfmower you trying to say i'm a troll?


Yes with that duracrap remark


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

turfmower lighting up are you that insecure about your durajunk  that you cant take a lttle ribbin becuase thats all it was.


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

IFS will NEVER articulate more than a solid axle....period. because they don't make cv joints that can run at a high enough angle.


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

actually heres the deal, if you want to know about good trucks for plowing. yes a solid front axle is stronger. but its irrelavant with the plow, meaning yeah it might be stronger but IFS will hold up to a plow just the same. the because its stronger doesn't mean you need it. so to be honest with you, you won't lose on any of the big 3. i'm not really familar with dodges but i'm sure they are good. i like the ford, i think it rides nice to be honest with you, i don't see much difference between the ford f350 and a chevy 3500. but if you are really picky about right then go with the chevy.


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## Frozen001 (Oct 20, 2004)

OK I have been lurking on this post for a while, and both sides make valid points. Ford people are always going to say fords are the best, and Chevy/gm people are going Say there the best. I have driven both fords, and gm products. Sure many will say that gm products "sag" in the front, but I look at it this way... I use my truck(2500hd gmc reg cab) for many reasons, including plowing snow, and towing. Plowing snow I would say takes like 10% of its total usage... the rest is daily driving and towing. My GMC sits lower in the front when it is unloaded, but when I put some serious weight on the back towing something (hauled 4-ton of crush-n-run this weekend in a dump trailer total weigh over 5 ton), and the truck sat almost level with that load. I have also towed similar weight with a ford 250SD, and that sat with the tail really low. If I would have a choice I would choose my GM because a level truck means better control. To me a truck that sagging in the tail when loaded means less weight in the front where the steering is, which is a bad situation to me. 

Now when plowing I will say fords will have better ground clearance, but how over does ground clearance come into play when plowing snow??? maybe if you have to plow over a curb.... but other than that???? I do not know. 

Over all they both make great plowing trucks, and it boils down to which ever you prefer. For me and what I use my truck for I like GM products... GM makes probable one of the best gasser engines out there(diesel I do not know never driven one), they have the best ride for daily use, and for towing their nose down offers better stability.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Robber80 said:


> IFS will NEVER articulate more than a solid axle....period. because they don't make cv joints that can run at a high enough angle.


Nor do they make steering linkage that will properly either. If you have the coin you can make a IFS flex quite well and with IFS you go not have to deall with drive shaft angle whill doing it and CV run smoother at higher angle than Ujoint do. Solid axles are cheaper and easier to build though.


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## Robber80 (Sep 8, 2004)

yeah tahts true, i've bever noticed the steering problems on trying to make a long travel IFS setup. the got some 1350 cv and some 1410 ujoing cvs for driveshafts that will pretty much cover all your angle needs i know that. the other cool thing about doing the steering on a solid axle is you can do high steer and bring the tierod above the leaf springs if you have them.


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## intlco (Nov 15, 2004)

davink said:


> But seriously, I have been shopping used trucks, and if that is all that you got for a two year old Diesel Dodge or Ford 1 ton, you must have dropped it off a cliff before you sold it. You really must beat the living sh*t out of it. I mean I know there resale is lower than Chevy, but give me a break.


We don't beat the living sh*t outta our trucks. We drive about 5ooo hwy miles a week on each unit. And it's just that the used truck market here don't pay much for trades on anything.
Any truck with over 100K has little or no value. People won't buy em, and banks won't finance them is what the dealers say.
Dealers like to trade cheap and sell high. And we don't have so many dealers, so they can do this. 
We don't bother to keep trucks for more than 2 years cause the service out here cost $100 hr and the techs are stupid.
It's cheaper to buy and sell every two years.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Strange, I have not been out there for a few years but there was a lot of old trucks out there when I have been out there in my travels. Maybe it is the newer ones that have a lot more gadgets to go wrong with them.


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## intlco (Nov 15, 2004)

Tarkus said:


> Strange, I have not been out there for a few years but there was a lot of old trucks out there when I have been out there in my travels. Maybe it is the newer ones that have a lot more gadgets to go wrong with them.


Your half right, there is a lot of old truck out here too. But most of the old truck are owned by old guys, or young kids who wanna build a monster truck with big tires. 
Most all middle age guys and ranchers by new trucks every two years because they use these trucks everyday and depend on them for their work, or they travel a lot.
Coal Bed Methane also buys their guys new trucks every two years, for the same reason.


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## intlco (Nov 15, 2004)

It's makes no sense why all you guys are fighting over who has a better truck.
To be serious, all 3 auto makers perhaps have the best product right now, compared to in the past.
What you outta be doing is fighting with the stupid wanna be americans who buy china made vehicles like toyata or honda.
Ford and Chevy are both American and both good choices.
"Kill The China Automakers, And Their Buyers"

As for off roading, I'd say by far, HUMMER wins!!!
It is made for off roading and abuse. And it holds good resale value.

It'd perhaps make a good plow truck too if it wasn't so much $$$.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

intlco said:


> Your half right, there is a lot of old truck out here too. But most of the old truck are owned by old guys, or young kids who wanna build a monster truck with big tires.
> Most all middle age guys and ranchers by new trucks every two years because they use these trucks everyday and depend on them for their work, or they travel a lot.
> Coal Bed Methane also buys their guys new trucks every two years, for the same reason.


I see your point but a "middled aged" guy could keep a older 1970 mid 80's truck running with its simpler carb systems and less to go wrong mechnically too a lot easier. Up there you do not really have a rust problem either with old trucks and sometimes some of these new trucks are less reliable and harder to keep running them the older ones. (even some of the older GM OBS trucks from 88 to 99 are not to bad either) When I buy truck I figure on at least a few hundred K miles and 10 or 15 years of use (which ever comes first) as I have better things to do with my money then spend it on a new truck every 2 years.


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## intlco (Nov 15, 2004)

Tarkus said:


> I see your point but a "middled aged" guy could keep a older 1970 mid 80's truck running with its simpler carb systems and less to go wrong mechnically too a lot easier. Up there you do not really have a rust problem either with old trucks and sometimes some of these new trucks are less reliable and harder to keep running them the older ones. (even some of the older GM OBS trucks from 88 to 99 are not to bad either) When I buy truck I figure on at least a few hundred K miles and 10 or 15 years of use (which ever comes first) as I have better things to do with my money then spend it on a new truck every 2 years.


Your are right, the trucks don't rust up here. 
It's just that most middled aged guys would rather have a new truck every two years and don't really care about the cost/loss in having something new.
And of course, since divorce rate is so high out here, most guys would rather spend their salary on a new truck then give it to their ex.

Don't forget, life out west in different. The welcome sign for Wyoming reads, LIKE NO PLACE ON EARTH!
Here, these are the most important things in life.....
1) Always Having A New Truck 
2) Hunting & Fishing
3) An ATV, Boat, or 5th Wheel RV
4) 12 pk of cold ones, and going to the mtns w/their buddy's

Least important things to most guys here,
1) Their job
2) Their wife


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

intlco i think in your neck of the woods the hummer might be great. but around here there worthless, becuase they are just to damn wide, never get down our trails.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

intlco said:


> Your are right, the trucks don't rust up here.
> It's just that most middled aged guys would rather have a new truck every two years and don't really care about the cost/loss in having something new.
> And of course, since divorce rate is so high out here, most guys would rather spend their salary on a new truck then give it to their ex.
> 
> ...


In past years I have traveled the northwest a lot and Washington is the only one of the lower western states that I have not been too. Wyoming has long been one of my favorites with parts of Montana and Colorado not far behind either. They do march to a different drummer out there.


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## danno (Sep 16, 2004)

BEST ALL AROUND VEHICLE..............suzuki samarai


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## intlco (Nov 15, 2004)

Tarkus said:


> In past years I have traveled the northwest a lot and Washington is the only one of the lower western states that I have not been too. Wyoming has long been one of my favorites with parts of Montana and Colorado not far behind either. They do march to a different drummer out there.


I don't think ya missed anything in WA. We got people from WA comin down here all the time, and they got the worst additudes. They think they are know-it-alls.
Wyoming is very good, but is kinda living 20 years in the past. Montana is a little more modern, but he MT Govt. sucks. If you want a private life, it's not the place to live. Colorado is okay, but the mexicans are ruining it.
I think Idaho is good place, and the Dakotas are good too.
Only bad part is the salaries in this area are the lowest in the country. Too much cheap Mexican and foreign labor is working up here illegal.
I've heard the same is true for Texas and Oklahoma.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Well the colder parts of Colorado the mexicans stay away from generally and Idaho has too much Morman influence in some parts for me and Utah is not even in the equation. Parts of Monatan suffers a lot from Californians moving there and bringing there way of life with them and legalizing of gambelling in Montana years ago really hurt that state more than it helped it and taxes are all screwed up there too and hurting residents at the benifit of non residents that have vacation homes there. On Wyoming being 20 years behind? Maybe about somethings but that is not really that bad today in these fast times either.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

Montana's better than Wyoming!



NO!



Wyoming's better than Montana and Idaho combined!



 :realmad:


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## CGLC (Dec 1, 2004)

derekbroerse said:


> Speaking of CGLC, has he even been back to see the results, or did he just light a fire and walk away?
> 
> Stir the pot, stir the pot....


 Basically... I have been reading the post every day and all I got to say is WOW!! Some real good info out there, thanks but I got lost on the Inf, climbing mountains, mudder off road thing whatever was going on. So i just stayed out of the path so I would not get crushed. But I have my eye on a couple of trucks. I thought I was going to get a new truck next fall but it might come sooner. 04 ford 250 at a dealership has one for $25,600 w/plow. Looked at some 2000 2500 no plow attachment on it. But its all up in the air. I have a few More questions but I will ask them when the time comes.


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## BRUNSWICK CONCRETE (Dec 17, 2002)

Buy a Ford and make some money.The others will steal your money in repairs.


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## SIPLOWGUY (Mar 21, 2002)

I had a Bronco II a few years ago and when I pulled up at work one of the "Chevy truck guys" said, " Gee, I guess you never had any toy trucks as a kid". My reply was, " I had Tonka trucks, not Buddy-L's like you. I learned to appreciate a good truck early on, so I drive Fords now". BTW, that Bronco II was a great little truck. I used it to commute for years untill some A**hole rear ended me and bent the chassis. I've had a Ford pick-up since 1979 and I'm long since sold on FORD!!!


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## millratf250 (Nov 15, 2004)

the three millrat 
#1 had a Ford with plow
#2 had Chevy with plow
#3 had a GM without a plow
#1 the ford need to be work on some of the time :realmad: 
#2 the Chevy need to be work on some of the time :realmad: 
#3 the GM need to be work on all the time :angry: 
now the millrat #3 with the GM is going to buy a FORD


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## millratf250 (Nov 15, 2004)

oh no forgot millrat #4 
#4 Dodge with out plow 
need work some of the time


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