# Anyone else in NJ get ins. rates for this coming season yet?



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Plowsite should have their own forum JUST for insurance...

I feel like even though we've dotted every I and crossed every T over the last few seasons, we're still getting rocked with slip and falls.. 

2011-2012 we had none
2012-2013 we had none
2013-2014 we had Three
2014-2015 we have One, not filed yet, an employee slipped and WC of the client covered it, but then is trying to claim we were the liable ones on march 9th, when it was a low of 42degrees overnight and high of in the 50s!

Insurance company we had in 13-14 season told us months ago, that all three cases were non-active cases, they requested information from the suing parties and none was provided.

Today i get an email from the company stating they settled a claim with one of the three from that season for 25k because they had an injury that they could be liable for about $50k+ if it went to court. This same slip and fall we had documented that OUR CLIENT, specifically requested us NOT de-ice that morning in 2014, and correspondence showing that I was adamant that they should have us apply the salt because of the overnight temps... "all our other sites were de-iced prior to 6am".

This site was not and by 8am, someone slipped, notified our clients management office and they called us in to salt at 9am. We have GPS on our trucks and truck was there before 9am, put salt down anyway even though by then the sun melted any slick areas and it was just wet.

Even with all we had proofs etc., OUR insurance still paid out, AND they sent us a bill for $1000 deductible for each case that settles or pays out. 

Our insurance went up 5x the original cost between 2011-2013, it then went up 10x that amount... so simple math here without me getting into actual amounts.

$2,000 season x5 is $10 grand x10 is $100 grand for the season.

I was hoping after the three cases drop off or don't have pay outs, and thankfully no slip and falls claimed for this past season, our rate would lower some... I don't think its going to be possible to find insurance or pay whatever insane amount it is this coming season. 

If our only quotes are $150k, i'm out, can't plow anything anymore and we do 99% commercial work. We only have a couple clients we don't or have never issued our insurance certificate to, but if we didn't have insurance and got sued anyway, we'd have to hire an attorney to defend the case anyway.

We have over 10 trucks, 8 machines and three-four sub contractors who plow and/or plow/salt for us commercially. Last year, our company factored in to OUR insurance, each sub contractor and part of last years quote was $6000 we paid for our sub contractors, BUT they were still required to have all their own insurance too! sucks in nj, or ct or ma


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Wow! I feel for you. That sucks. Definitely looks like it would be more profitable to get out of the business at those cost. Crazy.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Is that an actual number at 150K? Dear God it's worse over there than I thought if it is.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

That's insane.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I have a small truck repair shop in Morris County New Jersey. Its just me, a part timer, and a part time book keeper. My insurance is over 20,000 a year. Not including snow plowing, I have cut back on that, only have one F-250 plow insured, that's another 3500.00. Didn't get this years bill yet as mine rolls over end of January.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Waiting on my bill. Never had any claims. Im sure it's going to be higher than last year. Time will tell.

Pretty soon the only guys with plows on their trucks here will be guys doing their own house, and all the uninsured fly by nighters.


Oh well


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## Ben/Insurance (Oct 22, 2012)

Ramair, have you met with your insurance agent/broker and had him/her order and "dissect" the loss runs with you (the last 5 years) AND underwriters? What role is your agent/broker playing with regard to negotiating with underwriters at renewal time and claim representatives? Are they presenting any risk transfer techniques to you that you can utilize with your clients? Is you agent/broker an independent insurance agent that represents a wide variety of carriers or just one or two? Are they experts in dealing with the excess and surplus lines insurance marketplace when that is necessary, which might be a logical resource for you. Choosing the right insurance professional is so important today especially for snow removal contractors. I'll be coming back to plowsite soon as the snow insurance sponsor but in the meantime feel free to call me. 516-233-3515. Ben/Insurance


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Randall Ave;2017189 said:


> I have a small truck repair shop in Morris County New Jersey. Its just me, a part timer, and a part time book keeper. My insurance is over 20,000 a year. Not including snow plowing, I have cut back on that, only have one F-250 plow insured, that's another 3500.00. Didn't get this years bill yet as mine rolls over end of January.


Holy ****.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

John_DeereGreen;2017423 said:


> Holy ****.


2 million policy here....less then 700.00


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## fatheadon1 (Dec 27, 2007)

Ramairfreak98ss;2017093 said:


> Plowsite should have their own forum JUST for insurance...
> 
> I feel like even though we've dotted every I and crossed every T over the last few seasons, we're still getting rocked with slip and falls..
> 
> ...


Sounds 100% like the story that played out with a big company i sub for last year it happends to him and his insurance record was about the same as your. With a one sided contract he had with walmart in their favor that end up with his insurance comming back at the start of last season at 160 grand he is about equal in size to what you say your company is and it dam near bankrupt him. he ended up sitting down with his insurance company and they defined for him what he could do and what needed to be in his contracts. he then lost the walmart and a few other contracts because of his new contracts and has still not recovered to what his snow business once was and this year i have 4-5 free truck because he did not use them enough last year. i would atleast ask for a sit down with you insurance company bring every contract you have and make then earn your money and tell you how to play by their rules and maybe help you outta your predicament. Best of luck bud New Jersey sucks.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Holy crap 
Im slightly smaller 10 trucks 4 machines and 3 subs 
Is that number all type of insurance workers compensation truck everything or just snow 
That's crazy I'm with farm family and no where near that but have 0 slip and falls well 1 6 years ago not my fault


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## CARDOCTOR (Nov 29, 2002)

http://www.ascaonline.org/

check out this group


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Dogplow Dodge;2017212 said:


> Waiting on my bill. Never had any claims. Im sure it's going to be higher than last year. Time will tell.
> 
> Pretty soon the only guys with plows on their trucks here will be guys doing their own house, and all the uninsured fly by nighters.
> 
> Oh well


Yeah, in the last three years in burlington county areas, i see more and more of this.. guys with brand new Ford/Dodge/Chevy whatever, brand new plow, no commercial plates, no company name, just plowing for someone making a little per hour and are happy or think they're making money.. I know several guys who were as big or bigger than we are currently that have scaled back, sold off a lot of equipment and trucks they've used for years doing snow for the same reason. I know our rate isnt ONLY jacked up because of claims, as most any company with mulitple trucks and lots of accounts will have SOME claims, 1, 3, 10 ... and i'm saying 10 in the prior three years total is considered normal now. Thankfully, they don't look back farther, since we had multiple from ONE Walmart site in 2010, and it wasn't even that bad of a snow/cold year. Seemed like everyone claimed they slipped and injured themselves on days it was sunny and clear out. Only one of those claims was DURING any snow event or the very next morning early. Even an employee claimed they slipped at 6am walking into the store, a half hour after we re-salted the whole lot, and then USM denied paying it months later anyway... So you bill $700, don't get paid but still assume the liability from that day for a slip and fall.

Out of all slip and falls, i can't think of one that was honestly because we forgot, missed, failed to complete a service or just dropped the ball somehow on a site. Not claiming we've been perfect for years straight, but times when it gets bad and sites arn't salted when they should be or as soon as they should be, i swear someones going to fall and sue and it never happens. Its always days later, when we didn't salt, lot is dry, or when we did salt, lot is wet by 9am and someone falls at 10am...waste our time by calling back to request a second AM salting, we show up and no ice or anything anywhere.

Its entirely possible for folks to just trip over themselves and fall... and yet still they blame it on snow/ice/contractor etc. because of their own embarrassment that they just can't stay on two feet.

I never fall, but fell last year, got out of the truck, went to run around the front of the V plow, went to grab the top of the plow flexible drift marker with my right hand and just flat out missed it by an inch... as i turned my right foot it went under me and i went sideways faster than you know what. Ego didn't feel good, side of my hip stung a little but i got right back up and kept on going.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

ponyboy;2018467 said:


> Holy crap
> Im slightly smaller 10 trucks 4 machines and 3 subs
> Is that number all type of insurance workers compensation truck everything or just snow
> That's crazy I'm with farm family and no where near that but have 0 slip and falls well 1 6 years ago not my fault


Thats JUST the yearly snow policy. We have most of our insurances through farm family now.

I've never been found "at fault" of any slip and fall, i'm not sure how they'd prove it 100% anyway, unless they had some photos from where they fell going into a store and showed ice or something time stamped?

I realize, "not saying you", some guys with 10 trucks have 10 accounts and gross sales of $80,000 a year.. i'm just throwing out random numbers here..

Others have 5 trucks, 40 accounts and $500k gross sales, it all impacts your insurance costs..

We took less accounts last year, had half the trucks sit literally, the insurance didn't care, they went solely on our loss records and gross sales figures only, no matter if i used 40 trucks to do it or was a snow god and did it in 3 trucks.

What i hate, is paying 15-20% "$15-20 per $100 billed" to the client, for work such as hourly snow cleanup after storms... you've already plowed and salted and this is just gravy money but they're still counting that against you as though they're liable more because you're billing more?

i think our auto is $17k
W/C is around 10k
Inland marine is 5k "covers rentals up to 100k and 4 of our deere machines"
GL policy is 3k "not sure what this covers, never had a claim for anything anyway"

We've even had to have "umbrella additional insurance" for some contracts like Ferrandino and Sons.. crooks, i'll leave it at that, required us to get another 1m policy additional on top of our 2m snow policy we already had... and they required this after providing a month of snow services over a year ago before they'd pay any of their bill... yeah.

In NJ, if you have more than one automobile, you pay a base rate for liability alone, even if you don't actually insure the car.. so i pay another $700+ per auto for liability and i literally never get to drive any of them because i'm always in the trucks...

Its such a corrupt state, i hate that people do nothing but injure themselves and get $25-50k like nothing, without even going to trial, to court or doing anything for it, and our rates go sky high through no fault of our own.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Ben/Insurance;2017415 said:


> Ramair, have you met with your insurance agent/broker and had him/her order and "dissect" the loss runs with you (the last 5 years) AND underwriters? What role is your agent/broker playing with regard to negotiating with underwriters at renewal time and claim representatives? Are they presenting any risk transfer techniques to you that you can utilize with your clients? Is you agent/broker an independent insurance agent that represents a wide variety of carriers or just one or two? Are they experts in dealing with the excess and surplus lines insurance marketplace when that is necessary, which might be a logical resource for you. Choosing the right insurance professional is so important today especially for snow removal contractors. I'll be coming back to plowsite soon as the snow insurance sponsor but in the meantime feel free to call me. 516-233-3515. Ben/Insurance


Good questions, i know we get zero discount on our auto or snow insurance for having GPS on the trucks. In the event of a slip and fall, i can supply them with weather reports AND the GPS log of any of our trucks to detail the time in/out of a particular site and time spent there... its so detailed that i can even review that day online/on the maps, and see where the truck traveled "say for snow plowing" as if they skipped over an area plowing or salting. I've felt ripped off for the last three seasons now and its gotten so bad, i know its bad in NJ but at this rate, no one including me, could afford to plow snow commercially, yet it seems like every one is still out plowing snow. I know companies who have $5k in their bank account and plow snow so how could i struggle with a ton more assets?


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

1olddogtwo;2017426 said:


> 2 million policy here....less then 700.00


Thanks olddogtwo.. that makes me feel a ton better lol


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## PALS Landscapin (Dec 3, 2011)

Ramair Im with you. Im to the point where Im ready to throw the towel in. All you see is guys with no name on there trucks, not registered commercial and its aggravating. I do everything by the books and I feel all im doing is paying out. I also carry a 2 million policy for some of my commercial sites.


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## CityGuy (Dec 19, 2008)

Is the rising cost due to the amount of snow and ice you guys had on the east coast last year and an increase in the total amount of slip and falls? Just curious.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Amount of people who like to sue 
People take no accountability for accidents 
Oh it's ice out side let me wear high heels oh I fell let sue a plow guy and insurance will settle for most case under $25000 because it's cheaper then going to court 
Tri state area gets more law suits then rest of nation according to my insurance agent


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

1olddogtwo;2017426 said:


> 2 million policy here....less then 700.00


That's what I pay for snow and lawn care coverage, there's something to be said for being solo.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

ponyboy;2026696 said:


> Amount of people who like to sue
> People take no accountability for accidents
> Oh it's ice out side let me wear high heels oh I fell let sue a plow guy and insurance will settle for most case under $25000 because it's cheaper then going to court
> Tri state area gets more law suits then rest of nation according to my insurance agent


Yup. Ins companies payout because of the time wasted in court would result in similar costs.

Welcome to NJ. Move over, before I sue you...


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

CityGuy;2026690 said:


> Is the rising cost due to the amount of snow and ice you guys had on the east coast last year and an increase in the total amount of slip and falls? Just curious.


Both... they're ONLY going by gross sales right now, more snow/MUCH more salting.. MUCH more insurance costs.. i mean you can fork out 100k by november each year now, and then april/may hits, bang! an audit!

A month later, they want an additional 30k, yeah $30,000 MORE just because you had a better year than "average".

Having ANY slip and fall claims "lawsuits" arn't good, but considering the amount of sites you do to gross $200k, $500k, 1m etc. in NJ, having one or two PER SEASON is great! Well not to the insurance, they look at your past track record, and think, well thats not good you had two last year, like really? We had 4 major sites last year plus 30-40 small ones. I consider 1-2 people slipping "and they always sue", good.

In NJ in lawrenceville NJ you have a lawfirm called "Stark & Stark", yeah seriously, its a 4 floor major building with a pond/water fountain out front that employees hundreds of lawyers that only sue for personal injury... ambulance chasers. half of all slip and fall suits we've had in the past 5+ years are all from them. I'd like to sue them because its starting to become a track record against us like its a personal vendetta against us for some reason.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

ponyboy;2026696 said:


> Amount of people who like to sue
> People take no accountability for accidents
> Oh it's ice out side let me wear high heels oh I fell let sue a plow guy and insurance will settle for most case under $25000 because it's cheaper then going to court
> Tri state area gets more law suits then rest of nation according to my insurance agent


Exactly. Although i'm damn sure NJ is the worse case for lawsuits and litigation, our insurance FORBIDS us from operating or doing any snow related work in NY state... our last three different insurance companies all had this stipulation.

One lawsuit we're defending currently, requested any documents from the site that day. I found photos from 2/4/2014.. it was a day after a major snow storm, 20 out and none of the snow was melting for weeks prior. Its funny to look at the photos, snow in a supermarket parking lot, stacked everywhere, packed up in piles in the medians higher than stop signs, the day after the site finally approved some minor hourly work to move some of the snow !

Someone fell that morning at 930am, after we resalted a THIRD time after the storm commenced the day prior, most of the time with these lawsuits, i NEVER find out any of the specifics about where they fell, how they fell, any of their actual bodily damage, what the lot looked like in the exact spot they fell etc.. I"M ALWAYS curious at least. Nothing. Not even that it was on stairs, on a sidewalk or next to a mountain of snow.

It would be so simple to injure yourself by falling at your own house, crawing into your car, roll out onto someones parking lot and let some bystanders see you laying there, bang, instant $25k lawsuit comming your way in NJ. No fault of anyone but the person irresponsible enough to fall.

In 2012, i went up north jersey to a hospital in February to visit someone. The lot was crystal clear 2 days after a storm. Some snow melted, and refroze as black ice , about a 7 ft sheet of it on an angled set of sidewalks going into the hospital, i didn't see it, fell so fast, i could only laugh at my self. It hurt, but i'd never think of suing for a slip and fall, even knowing id get 25k in the end just to go away... and that was a legitimate slip. The courts, and legal system allow this, its not the lawyer's faults, insurance or ANYONE doing any of the work dealing with snow and mother nature.


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## cranky1111 (Nov 3, 2009)

BUFF;2026705 said:


> That's what I pay for snow and lawn care coverage, there's something to be said for being solo.


Many insurance carriers have reasonable policies for Landscapers with incidental snowplowing, and usually restricted to residential.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

i am in connecticut and i use Corperate Risk Solutions. i am completely covered as long as snow is listed as an activity under my LLC. according to my agent as long as my snow sales are less that 25% of my annual revenue i do not need additional insurance. i would give them a call, rite now we are running about 260k in snow and 1.4 mil in other revenue. so it works out fine.


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## Bruinzfan (Jan 2, 2013)

1olddogtwo;2017426 said:


> 2 million policy here....less then 700.00


Who's your insurance company/agent if you don't mind.


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## Bruinzfan (Jan 2, 2013)

Ramairfreak98ss;2019225 said:


> Yeah, in the last three years in burlington county areas, i see more and more of this.. guys with brand new Ford/Dodge/Chevy whatever, brand new plow, no commercial plates, no company name, just plowing for someone making a little per hour and are happy or think they're making money.. I know several guys who were as big or bigger than we are currently that have scaled back, sold off a lot of equipment and trucks they've used for years doing snow for the same reason. I know our rate isnt ONLY jacked up because of claims, as most any company with mulitple trucks and lots of accounts will have SOME claims, 1, 3, 10 ... and i'm saying 10 in the prior three years total is considered normal now. Thankfully, they don't look back farther, since we had multiple from ONE Walmart site in 2010, and it wasn't even that bad of a snow/cold year. Seemed like everyone claimed they slipped and injured themselves on days it was sunny and clear out. Only one of those claims was DURING any snow event or the very next morning early. Even an employee claimed they slipped at 6am walking into the store, a half hour after we re-salted the whole lot, and then USM denied paying it months later anyway... So you bill $700, don't get paid but still assume the liability from that day for a slip and fall.
> 
> Out of all slip and falls, i can't think of one that was honestly because we forgot, missed, failed to complete a service or just dropped the ball somehow on a site. Not claiming we've been perfect for years straight, but times when it gets bad and sites arn't salted when they should be or as soon as they should be, i swear someones going to fall and sue and it never happens. Its always days later, when we didn't salt, lot is dry, or when we did salt, lot is wet by 9am and someone falls at 10am...waste our time by calling back to request a second AM salting, we show up and no ice or anything anywhere.
> 
> ...


Not disputing what your saying here other than. .in Mass you can have passenger plates on a commercially insured truck as long as its not lettered.


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## Bruinzfan (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm having trouble finding a general liability policy for just me. 1 truck no subs. I was planning on doing the town streets. They require 1mill/2mill G.L. policy. They all say if you are a landscaper and plow that's fine, 750...IF your plowing your Comercial and residential lots. ..once you say municipal streets, 2500 to 5000...not worth it even if we get a storm life last year. I really didn't want to do driveways. .u wouldn't have mounted a 9'2" Vee if that was my intention. Lol


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Try progressive. I was doing roads here in Jersey. Hard to find insurance for roads. Did you put in a bid packet for a township? Here I had to have the insurance already, in the bid the township had to be listed in the bid in my policy as addition insured. Also if I had employies driving they had to have workmans comp.


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## Bruinzfan (Jan 2, 2013)

They don't use a bid system in my town. The DPW Commissioner told me there was a slot open and got me the app. Once I satisfy the insurance needs I can submit. Does Progressive do General Liability policies too?

I will give them a call tomorrow.

Thank you.

Keith


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

cranky1111;2027129 said:


> Many insurance carriers have reasonable policies for Landscapers with incidental snowplowing, and usually restricted to residential.


My policy is for both resi and commercial, rates are based on annual gross income and plowing should be less than 50% of that. If I didn't do LC and only plowing rates would be 2x the cost based on my current gross income.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Since snow plowing insurance is going the way of the Dodo bird, here in NJ, I figured I'd share this "google find" that I happen to come across this morning.

What a JOKE!

https://franchinoinsurance.com/snowplowing

And you wonder why so many guys drive around with NO insurance


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I guess this is why I consider myself a snow plowing enthusiast now. 
My repair policy is enough now. I went from four trucks to one, there is a few people I will help in a pinch. 
Looked at that form, that's just the plowing rider, you still have to have your trucks insured seperatly, so one truck with that policy, you will be 6000.00 maby for the year, needs to snow a lot to break even.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Randall Ave;2040499 said:


> I guess this is why I consider myself a snow plowing enthusiast now.
> My repair policy is enough now. I went from four trucks to one, there is a few people I will help in a pinch.
> Looked at that form, that's just the plowing rider, you still have to have your trucks insured seperatly, so one truck with that policy, you will be 6000.00 maby for the year, needs to snow a lot to break even.


$ 6K in the hole before one flake falls ? Yeah !


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

Bruinzfan;2030180 said:


> Not disputing what your saying here other than. .in Mass you can have passenger plates on a commercially insured truck as long as its not lettered.


Careful with that. If you are plowing for money you technically need commercial plates since the truck is being used for work. My fathers friend had his insurance dropped after he rear ended someone plowing since he did not have commercial plates or vehicle insurance when they found out he was plowing for money. 

I think my dads pays $4000 per year for commercial auto and 500K GL, without plowing. Single man operation, some of the towns he works in required GL insurance.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

That's about right for here in Jersey to. My one truck I guess will be about 3800. this year. But my general liability is on a separate policy. Its a 
3 Million, required by some accounts I have. Do not no what it costs tho. My secretary doesn't tell me, she doesn't like to see me depressed. :crying:


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Randall Ave;2042476 said:


> That's about right for here in Jersey to. My one truck I guess will be about 3800. this year. But my general liability is on a separate policy. Its a
> 3 Million, required by some accounts I have. Do not no what it costs tho. My secretary doesn't tell me, she doesn't like to see me depressed. :crying:


????? How in the hell do you operate a business without knowing your cost to operate? Unless she is doing all the bidding for you as well, so she can price the jobs accordingly, I would think that that would be a recipe for disaster. JMO


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Well,
I've been calling my "supposed" agent for the last two months. Other than failing to call me back promptly, when I actually was able to speak to him (he called after I left my "I'm calling for the 3rd time" message) he claimed he was waiting on the company to send him a renewal for me. Well that was total BS (not birdseed but similar). My wife called the CSR at the agency, and within an hour I had a new application form all filled out, with a secondary questionnaire to be completed. What a scum. He was going to let my insurance expire in less than 3 weeks, and I would have been out of luck. Glad my wife got to the bottom of things

Anyway,

They asked me for a copy of a page in my logbook. Anyone ever get asked that before ? I never have, previously.

Also sent out another application to a different agency to get (2) more quotes for the upcoming year. We'll see what happens now. Hopefully, I can switch agents, as the one I have is obviously a piece of crap.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

derekslawncare;2042529 said:


> ????? How in the hell do you operate a business without knowing your cost to operate? Unless she is doing all the bidding for you as well, so she can price the jobs accordingly, I would think that that would be a recipe for disaster. JMO


As I stated in a previous post, pretty much have scaled back to a plowing enthusiast. I have a truck repair business. My insurance total cost for 2015 is about 23600.00 . I am small but do repairs for some very large nation wide companies. That is why I have the large policy. 
As far as plowing customers, for me it is all municipal, township roads. And a lot of snow plow repairs.


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## Ben/Insurance (Oct 22, 2012)

Dogplow, I have never had a carrier ask for a page in a client's logbook so I don't know what that's about. Another question is why are you completing the applications for the insurance? In 28 years in this business, we have never asked a client to do our job and complete an application. Your agent should be doing that and all of the supplemental applications. You should get a 3 year loss run from your current agent and send that along with the application to the new agent so there are no unpleasant surprises later. If you'd like me to price something out for you, feel free to contact me. [email protected] or 516-233-3515
Ben/Insurance


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Ben/Insurance;2047656 said:


> Dogplow, I have never had a carrier ask for a page in a client's logbook so I don't know what that's about. Another question is why are you completing the applications for the insurance? In 28 years in this business, we have never asked a client to do our job and complete an application. Your agent should be doing that and all of the supplemental applications. You should get a 3 year loss run from your current agent and send that along with the application to the new agent so there are no unpleasant surprises later. If you'd like me to price something out for you, feel free to contact me. [email protected] or 516-233-3515
> Ben/Insurance


Thanks Ben,

I appreciate the help, but I think I priced it with you once previously, and you were about $800 more than who I took. Not sure why, but that's water under the bridge.

I receive a "completed form" to sign, and I didn't have to fill out the page, other than a signature, and a copy of my log sheet. I guess they're looking to see who keeps track of what they do, and who doesn't, in case there is a lawsuit. Don't know, but whatever. The secondary questionnaire was regarding what I was plowing, where, how often, salting ?, Subcontractors ?, bla, bla bla. Again, whatever... it seems as though most of my experiences have been where an agent is all happy to help, until after the policy is signed, and then asta la vista, chico.... Just complaining...

This week should turn out to be interesting. If it goes haywire, I'll take you up on your offer.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

$3750 for the season one truck, one plow and a snow blower

Payable in full
Cannot be cancelled
No refunds
1,000 deductible 
1M, 2M limits.

Nothing left to say..


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## Bigb40319 (Oct 11, 2005)

We just got a price of 30k paid in full with 10k deductible we do about 98k a year in snow removal this is insane think i might be selling everything


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

My best year I did 32,000. Insurance cost me around 9,000 that year, the next year not so much snow. 
If you really figured your total cost of equipment, insurance, parts etc. Do you really make enough profit to be involved in the industry in this state.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Randall Ave;2053448 said:


> My best year I did 32,000. Insurance cost me around 9,000 that year, the next year not so much snow.
> If you really figured your total cost of equipment, insurance, parts etc. *Do you really make enough profit to be involved in the industry in this state*.


Depends on how much snow we get.

No snow ? Well that answer is freak no.

Lots of snow ? Yes it is...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Morning Sir, well I'm looking at the future weather forecast , it ain't looking like last year. Didn't we plow in November last year? At least the suns out this morning.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Randall Ave;2053626 said:


> Morning Sir, well I'm looking at the future weather forecast , it ain't looking like last year. Didn't we plow in November last year? At least the suns out this morning.


You guys might have plowed, but I'm too far south. I didn't drop the blade until after the first of the year, last season.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

File says 11/26 of last year, but I don't remember last week.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Just got a notice from my insurance, all policies are going up 12 1/2 percent. O happy day


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

They should just close the state for private plowing. F that....why even bother!


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Randall Ave;2055577 said:


> Just got a notice from my insurance, all policies are going up 12 1/2 percent. O happy day


Hey guys !!

My wife's insurance company recently found a new insurance provider for Snow Plowing, and her office might be a great source for providing snow plowing insurance. She doesn't do the "commercial side" of the insurance world, but her co workers do. The details are "in the works" right now, but once she's squared away, I'll post information about it.

There's hope in the wings...Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Hopefully you won enough cash in AC to pay those insurance payments.  :waving:


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Randall Ave;2057228 said:


> Hopefully you won enough cash in AC to pay those insurance payments.  :waving:


It's significantly cheaper. I mean.... Very, very much cheaper. I mean 1/4 the cost.

it has restrictions though.
Prior losses ?

*No streets, *highways, public roads
No gas stations, home depots 
No Condos, apartments, mobile home parks
No tracts of homes (10 houses or more)
Adjacent to :
Railroads, chemical plants, airports, public utilites, hospitals, nursing homes, senior or military housing, dorms, or other.

If yes to anything above, it still may cover you, but you have to disclose it, and the rate might be a higher. Since I only have a couple commercials, and they're "stand alone" places, it's not an issue with what I'm doing (supposedly)

Keep ya posted.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Is there anywhere here where we don't have a gas station by a chemical plant?


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Randall Ave;2057842 said:


> Is there anywhere here where we don't have a gas station by a chemical plant?


Check your PM


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## Parson & Son's (Nov 18, 2015)

*Curious Jersey Too*

*


1olddogtwo;2017426 said:



2 million policy here....less then 700.00

Click to expand...

Hi,

:waving:

I'm new here and just wondering what state you are in and if NJ (I'm in Mercer County) which company if you don't mind sharing? Having trouble finding affordable ins. 

Thanks,
Amanda
P&S, LLC
​*


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Bruinzfan;2030183 said:


> I'm having trouble finding a general liability policy for just me. 1 truck no subs. I was planning on doing the town streets. They require 1mill/2mill G.L. policy. They all say if you are a landscaper and plow that's fine, 750...IF your plowing your Comercial and residential lots. ..once you say municipal streets, 2500 to 5000...not worth it even if we get a storm life last year. I really didn't want to do driveways. .u wouldn't have mounted a 9'2" Vee if that was my intention. Lol


NJ is same way, public roadways.. it literally doubles, and most of those municipal accounts pay hourly like $100-125/hr... we'd have to bill double easily to make it worth anyones time and cut any profit.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Dogplow Dodge;2040477 said:


> Since snow plowing insurance is going the way of the Dodo bird, here in NJ, I figured I'd share this "google find" that I happen to come across this morning.
> 
> What a JOKE!
> 
> ...


interesting, we go through all the same stuff now too... thats probably a BETTER insurance company/broker to use too! its a huge task just to get the policy before you fork over the funds.. all of ours are paid in full now for the last three years up front.. it sucks, the time of the year you need the maximum funds available for payroll and 45-60 days out before you see a dime generally from snow income, you have to fork out your largest expense to the company each season.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Bigb40319;2053407 said:


> We just got a price of 30k paid in full with 10k deductible we do about 98k a year in snow removal this is insane think i might be selling everything


Thats a higher % than ours... we have a 5k deductible, but was quoted by our company from last year, 5 grand MORE than the gigundus amount we spent last season AND it went from 5k ded to 10k ded.. at that rate, i don't want insurance, because most claims settle for under 10k anyway and including the legal fees for paperwork shuffling to pay a few minor hospital bills at fault or not.


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## Henry (Jan 1, 2000)

Ramairfreak98ss;2026894 said:


> Exactly. Although i'm damn sure NJ is the worse case for lawsuits and litigation, our insurance FORBIDS us from operating or doing any snow related work in NY state... our last three different insurance companies all had this stipulation.
> 
> One lawsuit we're defending currently, requested any documents from the site that day. I found photos from 2/4/2014.. it was a day after a major snow storm, 20 out and none of the snow was melting for weeks prior. Its funny to look at the photos, snow in a supermarket parking lot, stacked everywhere, packed up in piles in the medians higher than stop signs, the day after the site finally approved some minor hourly work to move some of the snow !
> 
> ...


Of course it's the lawyers fault. Who do you think taught all these pros how to make make money off of law suits? They'll convince you that you're hurt and they'll "get you the money you deserve."


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