# 16 year old trying to get serious



## mileseichen (Feb 9, 2021)

Hey guys! I'm miles. I'm 15 and I live in saint paul Minnesota. next winter I'll be 16 and id like to put a plow on a truck and start doing alleys and maybe a few residential driveways. not even gonna touch anything commercial until I'm 18. I'm just wondering if there are any limitations and what insurance I'm going to need for this. is it necessary to get any insurance beyond the liability with my truck? I know my limits and I'm not gonna do anything stupid. I'm not above getting out of the truck and shoveling out a garage door so I don't get too close. thanks!


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Welcome to the site.

I've got two different perspectives on this;

On the one hand, I see a younger version of me, going out and working instead of staying in playing Donkey Kong. I'm glad to see some of the next generation geared towards working and don't let any one stop you from your goals, if owning a snow and ice mgmt. business is one of them, then so be it, keep at it. Many of us started just like you did, many (including myself) started with just a shovel.

On the other hand, reality; Unfortunately, you won't have an actual business because you're not 18, you also won't be able to get liability insurance also because you're not 18. Your standard auto insurance will NOT cover snowplowing, and may not even cover the plow itself. I think you'd be better off working for another company part time doing sidewalks when you turn 16, get your work permit, create a resume, apply in the off season. One of the best ways you can help yourself and potentially start a business, take some business classes, at 15 you're probably in 9 or 10th grade, speak to a school counselor, see if your school has any business or accounting classes, or if you could dual enroll at a local college, any business class, will help you tremendously.

The take away: as mentioned, I'm excited to see later generations starting to consider the business. I think you're going to be far fetched to start a legitimate plowing business, for a few more years, but keep at it.
If you take none of this advice, at least take this; don't plow alleys, that's the municipality's job and they're ill maintained (rough of equipment) and often have debris in them which can cause flat tires.

Some snow and ice mgmt. resources that may help you.

Sima.org
Asca.org

Good luck and again, welcome to the site.


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## mileseichen (Feb 9, 2021)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Welcome to the site.
> 
> I've got two different perspectives on this;
> 
> ...


hey, thanks for the reply. I've seen a lot of this and I've also seen a lot of people saying that for what I'm trying to do (residential driveways and alleys as a tiny side-hustle) all you really need is for the truck to be insured with something like $1,000,000 in liability. also to clarify I'm trying to have my dad deal with the insurance. I just want my name on the card. I'm talking to my insurance agent tomorrow so I'll make sure to post an update. However, I'd also like to clarify that I will not think about dropping the blade on a commercial property until I'm of age to run a legitimate business with its own insurance.

The alleys in my city are not maintained by the city. it is a very common practice for the block to pool money and hire someone with a plow. I do understand the concern but I like the idea of an alley because there is a very small chance I damage someone else's property. if my tire leaks so be it.


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## SilverPine (Dec 7, 2018)

I was just writing something similar but BossPlow beat me to it.

Even if some how you do find an insurance company to cover commercial vehicle insurance as well as business liability insurance, the rates would be so high you wouldn't make a penny.

Your age limits you a bit but not totally. Try starting with snowblowing and shoveling. Much cheaper to start up. Your plowing days will come you are just a bit early.


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## mileseichen (Feb 9, 2021)

SilverPine said:


> I was just writing something similar but BossPlow beat me to it.
> 
> Even if some how you do find an insurance company to cover commercial vehicle insurance as well as business liability insurance, the rates would be so high you wouldn't make a penny.
> 
> Your age limits you a bit but not totally. Try starting with snow blowing and shoveling. Much cheaper to start up. Your plowing days will come you are just a bit early.


yup. hopefully, I can get an estimate on my rate tomorrow and if I weigh it with the accounts I'm looking at and it doesn't make any sense ill just skip the plow and get a truck and a new blower. but from what I've seen on other forums as long as you aren't doing anything commercial you don't need that business liability nor do you need a commercial vehicle policy. I'm looking at a Toyota tundra with a 7' blade on it, definitely not a commercial class truck, and several Insurance companies have told people I know that as long as there's nothing happening on commercial sites all you need is car insurance and a million in liability for the vehicle which should cost me somewhere in the 100-150 a month range. that means 3 seasonal alley accounts would pay for my year of insurance.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

@NickSnow&Mow

Start a conversation with this guy. He came on the site at 14. Check out his thread.


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## mileseichen (Feb 9, 2021)

Mr.Markus said:


> @NickSnow&Mow
> 
> Start a conversation with this guy. He came on the site at 14. Check out his thread.


looks like he hasn't been on here since October. still reached out. thanks.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

mileseichen said:


> looks like he hasn't been on here since October. still reached out. thanks.


He's got a group on Facebook, he's the moderator. United Snow Pros is the name of the group. And he's got a YouTube channel.


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## rizzoa13 (Oct 20, 2018)

Having your father insure a vehicle or business for you is a good way to go about it. As long as your legally old enough to drive and work there’s no reason you can’t provide the service under HIS business.

You can hand out flyers and business cards with your name like this:

Ambitious SnowRemoval LLC
Xxx-xxx-xxxx
Manager- Miles the snow kid.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Hint, plowing for money is comershail plowing even if it’s a residential drive or the alley.

You need to have the proper insurance.
You will still have slip fall and property damage liability exposure.

Your plowing for money, your useing your vehicle for a business.
Your personal vehicles insurance will not cover you.
And seeing as your a minor living at homeyour parents could be sued too.


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

Right on bud, way to get after it as a young guy. Keep it up!

just to clarify some terms, a “commercial vehicle policy” refers to the policy for any vehicle doing ANY for-profit work, not just work on commercial sites. You’ll want that, regardless of whether your doing residential or commercial. It will probably be cheaper if your only doing a few residential lots.

I just wanted to mention one thing, and I’m not trying to talk you out of your plan, just speaking from my own experience. for a kid in your shoes I think there’s more money to be made with a blower than a truck. If I was your age and just wanted to make the most amount of money possible, I would get a blower. But then again, I’ve never heard of people plowing alleys so if it pencils out for you then I say have at it


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

mileseichen said:


> hey, thanks for the reply. I've seen a lot of this and I've also seen a lot of people saying that for what I'm trying to do (residential driveways and alleys as a tiny side-hustle) all you really need is for the truck to be insured with something like $1,000,000 in liability. also to clarify I'm trying to have my dad deal with the insurance. I just want my name on the card. I'm talking to my insurance agent tomorrow so I'll make sure to post an update. However, I'd also like to clarify that I will not think about dropping the blade on a commercial property until I'm of age to run a legitimate business with its own insurance.
> 
> The alleys in my city are not maintained by the city. it is a very common practice for the block to pool money and hire someone with a plow. I do understand the concern but I like the idea of an alley because there is a very small chance I damage someone else's property. if my tire leaks so be it.


If


Hydromaster said:


> Hint, plowing for money is comershail plowing even if it's a residential drive or the alley.
> 
> You need to have the proper insurance.
> You will still have slip fall and property damage liability exposure.
> ...


I'll add, you are under 18, you can't legally sign a contract.
Also, as big risk to your parents if your dad isn't actually going to do the work .
As he is basically putting everything they own at risk in an injury lawsuit, if you are found negligent in performing your work.
Where he could start out small as a one man show as a DBA.
If it isn't him doing the work he's going to have to LLC right away.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

Miles: Like others, I applaud your ambitions. I agree with other postings here about liability concerns. If I were you, I would first seek out employment with a snow removal company. This will get your feet wet/frozen. Go from there.
Don't let anyone keep you from your goals.


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## Daley Construction (Nov 15, 2017)

Just thought I would add this as I just renewed my commercial auto. My policy will not cover anyone under the age of 21 or on a Graduated driver’s license. Not a request by me either just the terms.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Daley Construction said:


> Just thought I would add this as I just renewed my commercial auto. My policy will not cover anyone under the age of 21 or on a Graduated driver's license. Not a request by me either just the terms.


I believe OP is in Mn, pretty sure you have to be 21 to get commercial insurance here at all.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

come on back!


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