# semi metallic or ceramic



## Dawdy Services (Apr 4, 2009)

That is my question witch is better for towing and plowing


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Huh?......


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## conifers4 (Jul 8, 2009)

Oh I get it now, he's talking about brakes. I think....


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Really. Could be tires? Or ?


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Oem, my answer for everything, oem.


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## novawagonmaster (Jun 16, 2014)

I stick with an OEM formulation from an aftermarket supplier. If it came with semi-met, that's what I use. If it came with ceramic, that's what I use.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

novawagonmaster;1823171 said:


> I stick with an OEM formulation from an aftermarket supplier. If it came with semi-met, that's what I use. If it came with ceramic, that's what I use.


And how do you uhh know what it came with?


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## Dawdy Services (Apr 4, 2009)

Yes me brakes I'm going with new drilled and slotted rotors bit not sure what pads to run I do pull a 8000 pound mowing trailer 3-4 days a week and plow snow in the winter


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ceramic then....


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## novawagonmaster (Jun 16, 2014)

dieselss;1823207 said:


> And how do you uhh know what it came with?


Most of my parts catalogs tell me what was OE. If your parts guy/store is half way decent, he can tell you. If he cannot tell you, find a better parts guy/store.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Why not just go better then oem?


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## novawagonmaster (Jun 16, 2014)

Define better.


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## 2006Sierra1500 (Dec 28, 2011)

novawagonmaster;1823229 said:


> Define better.


High quality, higher stopping power, higher durability, less brake fade, the list goes on and on.


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## Dawdy Services (Apr 4, 2009)

I'm looking for some that will stop better than the stock ones I have 122,000 on the rears and about 35,000 on the front and it just don't really want to stop that well empty so it's time for new I have found a deal on 4 drilled and slotted rotors and semi metallic passe for 300.00 out ceramic for 270.00


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd do ceramic again I say 

Better then one.....where do I begin. Or anyone else for that matter


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## novawagonmaster (Jun 16, 2014)

What kind of truck?

I am not going to make a blanket statement saying one is better than the other. It's simply not true in either case. They both have their merits in different applications, and this is why OEMs still call for both.


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## Dawdy Services (Apr 4, 2009)

novawagonmaster;1823242 said:


> What kind of truck?
> 
> I am not going to make a blanket statement saying one is better than the other. It's simply not true in either case. They both have their merits in different applications, and this is why OEMs still call for both.


06 2500 quad cab short box 4x4 5.9 diesel DODGE


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## novawagonmaster (Jun 16, 2014)

Semi-metallic on that one. Just make sure you are buying good pads. Don't get the cheapies.

As for drilled and slotted rotors, don't waste your money unless you plan on lapping Laguna Seca or just like the appearance.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok. Explain why semi?..


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## novawagonmaster (Jun 16, 2014)

Short answer - because that is what the engineers at Chrysler decided was best for that application. 

Call NAPA. They don't even list a ceramic pad option for that truck.

Look, I'm not trying to start a pissing contest. I'm just sharing what I have learned over the years. I have nothing to gain by recommending one over the other on an internet forum. 

For the last 16 years, I have been running a large repair facility that services all makes & models up to and including one-ton trucks. We do lots of brake work. The last thing I want is a customer coming back through my front door with a complaint. The way I have avoided that scenario is by installing OE-type brake pads. 

If a vehicle calls for semi-metallic brake pads, and that is what the customer is used to driving with, I give them the option. Ceramic pads will offer less dust, but they will feel different. Semi-metallic pads usually have a better initial bite. Ceramics require a little more pedal effort. If the customer had no complaints about their brakes (dust, etc) prior to them being worn out, I recommend staying with what was on there (in this case, semi-met).


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## Dawdy Services (Apr 4, 2009)

novawagonmaster;1823245 said:


> Semi-metallic on that one. Just make sure you are buying good pads. Don't get the cheapies.
> 
> As for drilled and slotted rotors, don't waste your money unless you plan on lapping Laguna Seca or just like the
> 
> appearance.


I can get the drilled and slotted cheaper than OEM the OEM one are over 100.00 each I get 4 riotous and pads for 300 with life time warrantie with 1 time replacement for wear


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## novawagonmaster (Jun 16, 2014)

I've seen more than one set of drilled rotors with cracks between the holes. Also, in bad winter climates, that is just another area for the rust to start.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

So why do you think they don't list any ceramic pads? There's none listed on half the trks I've put them on and no issues


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## novawagonmaster (Jun 16, 2014)

Dawdy Services;1823258 said:


> I can get the drilled and slotted cheaper than OEM the OEM one are over 100.00 each I get 4 riotous and pads for 300 with life time warrantie with 1 time replacement for wear


I just looked up regular rotors for your truck, and I would retail them for $80.



dieselss;1823260 said:


> So why do you think they don't list any ceramic pads?


That's above my pay grade.

You say you have had no issues installing ceramic pads on your vehicles. I don't doubt that. However, I can say I have had issues. Not on MY vehicles, because I don't deviate from OE pad type. But I have had customers tell me (when switching from semi metallic to ceramic) that "it just doesn't stop well" or "I have to push harder on the pedal to make it stop". Switched back to a semi-met, and all was right with the world again.

Will they go on the truck? Yes.
Will it stop? Yes.
Is it the best option? Not always.


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

Dawdy Services;1823258 said:


> I can get the drilled and slotted cheaper than OEM the OEM one are over 100.00 each I get 4 riotous and pads for 300 with life time warrantie with 1 time replacement for wear


Let me get this straight. Your not happy with the the stock brakes, and you're looking at cheaper pads and rotors? What's wrong with this picture? And you're putting them on a work truck? Ever see a heavy truck with drilled or slotted rotors? No. Just the heaviest hunk of iron they could get. Better heat sink, and more material to fight warping.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

jhenderson9196;1823518 said:


> Let me get this straight. Your not happy with the the stock brakes, and you're looking at cheaper pads and rotors? What's wrong with this picture? And you're putting them on a work truck? Ever see a heavy truck with drilled or slotted rotors? No. Just the heaviest hunk of iron they could get. Better heat sink, and more material to fight warping.


You can't change your rotor size easily. Oem size is what you should stick to unless you have deep pockets.

Personally id use Wagner thermoquoets


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

My point was that working trucks use plain rotors. No slots or drilled. Not to try to up-size the package. Good quality rotors are often heavier than cut rate parts.


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## Dawdy Services (Apr 4, 2009)

Thank you for the replies I did go with the slotted rotors and semi-metallic pads they stop great and have a nice pedal


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## NBI Lawn (Oct 15, 2007)

I just put on Napa ultra premium pads and rotors on the front of my 06 QCSB cummins. Not happy. They squeak really bad, brake dust is terrible and they appear to be leaving black specs on my wheels. I made every precaution to be sure they didn't squeak but they do. They also stink pretty bad and no there isnt a caliper hanging up.
In was going tonjust give themnsome time to wear in but they are just getting worse.


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## cl733 (Jul 12, 2013)

All interesting, lately any brake changes ive done for friends the parts outlet are up grading to ceramic , nobody ahs complained of loss of braking power , but my question is , what about braking power, friction factor so to speak, are they different, deviating to a different breed from one axle to the next, would it create a different braking proportion compared to what the vehicle was intended to be, or if choosing something different should both axles be the same friction material , you might never know until an emergency situation which could be the deciding factor if you end up in the rhubarb or not, or are they just designed to be the same , but different


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## novawagonmaster (Jun 16, 2014)

NBI Lawn;1827372 said:


> I just put on Napa ultra premium pads and rotors on the front of my 06 QCSB cummins. Not happy. They squeak really bad, brake dust is terrible and they appear to be leaving black specs on my wheels. I made every precaution to be sure they didn't squeak but they do. They also stink pretty bad and no there isnt a caliper hanging up.
> In was going tonjust give themnsome time to wear in but they are just getting worse.


The stink would be my primary concern. Find a IR temp gun to take a temp on the rotors after driving (when you notice the stink). It's not always a caliper causing a drag. A collapsed flex hose will do the same thing. I scream every time I see a guy clamping of a hose with vise grips doing brake work. That's the best way to ruin a hose.



cl733;1827506 said:


> All interesting, lately any brake changes ive done for friends the parts outlet are up grading to ceramic , nobody ahs complained of loss of braking power , but my question is , what about braking power, friction factor so to speak, are they different, deviating to a different breed from one axle to the next, would it create a different braking proportion compared to what the vehicle was intended to be, or if choosing something different should both axles be the same friction material , you might never know until an emergency situation which could be the deciding factor if you end up in the rhubarb or not, or are they just designed to be the same , but different


Most trucks run the same front and rear. Some cars run a less aggressive pad in the rear (some imports come to mind that run an organic pad in the rear).


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

To Novawagonmaster,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news. I was an auto mechanic (ASE certified in brakes) for about 20 yrs and almost every time we used NAPA brakes, they came back squealing up a storm within the first week. Even when we used their high quality line, we had comebacks. I'm not knocking NAPA, I buy most all of my aftermarket parts from them, but I second what was said earlier. Use Wagoner thermo quiets (or OEM) and you will be happy. When the shop I worked at switched to the thermo quiets, our comeback rate dropped to 0.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

We use thermoquiets at my shop elusively (so?) too


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Aikebonos all the time of ordered any


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## ss502gmc (Sep 12, 2008)

I use to work for napa years ago and have used every type brake pad they offered and I hated them all. Then we started carrying Wagner. I loved the thermoquiets and they stopped on a dime with my 94 k1500 but they did put out a lot of dust. On my current truck 01 2500hd I have used the Wagner heavy duty ceramics and it's the only pads I'll by now. I use to pull a 2-3 car trailer for work at 15000 lbs 1200 miles a week for 3 years and with proper braking never even had warped rotors. I got 65,000 miles out of the front pads before changing and still had a little meat left on them. Good trailer brakes help also but a lot of my driving was thru Boston traffic which I'm sure people have heard how bad boston is lol. My vote is Wagner ceramic!


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## novawagonmaster (Jun 16, 2014)

derekslawncare;1827727 said:


> To Novawagonmaster,
> 
> I hate to be the bearer of bad news. I was an auto mechanic (ASE certified in brakes) for about 20 yrs and almost every time we used NAPA brakes, they came back squealing up a storm within the first week. Even when we used their high quality line, we had comebacks. I'm not knocking NAPA, I buy most all of my aftermarket parts from them, but I second what was said earlier. Use Wagoner thermo quiets (or OEM) and you will be happy. When the shop I worked at switched to the thermo quiets, our comeback rate dropped to 0.


I don't use much in the way of brake parts from Napa either. I simply referenced them as a trusted source to tell you whether the OEM pads were ceramic or semi-met.

The only Napa pads I've used (recently) are the Adaptive One pads. Those have done pretty good for us, but they are expensive. I use lots of Akebono pads, some Wagner ThermoQuiet pads, and quite a few of the SST pads from our local Federated store (although primarily on cars, not trucks).


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## Army19kilo (Oct 24, 2020)

I know this is an old Post so no need to remind me...but others are generating the question Which pads and rotors for plowing/etc...and they are seeing this forums posts...

After painfully reading all the responses I would like to 1 - express that when somebody asks a question its pretty ignorant and rude to respond with more questions and come at thee with a battery of arguments, 2 respond to his question and give him my opinion.

Instead focus on answering the question. I believe opinions and facts are important if someone is reaching out for answers.

THE question was which is best Ceramic or Semi metallic, the reason he is asking this is because these are his (and most others) options when shopping for brake components.

I see alot of people spent alot of time with the OEM debate.
Heres some facts

1- OEM equipment is for OEM setups, and sometimes changes or is incorrect in plow/heavy use situations,..example..did the option to build your truck come with an option that included a plow setup? The OEM pads were specified to stop the truck in a certain amount of distance with a certain setup ( usually NOT a loaded vehicle )

2-OEM means different things to different people and unfortunately even the dealerships..why? because a lot of parts including brakes have an OEM spec and this means that person A may have "z pads" and person B on the other side of the country has "f" pads.

3- If you head to the dealer to get OEM parts, make sure you tell them you want "Original equipment" ...I think this is where people find-out (if the guy behind the counter is honest..._and thats if he honestly even knows_) that sometime they wont have them in stock or they might not be able to get them...WHY? because the parts (part numbers) change..the initial run of pads for your 2010 Ram that were mass produced to fill the need for assembly on the line most likely are not made anymore or now are made in another factory as replacement pads. You get the point here right?

4-Dealerships carry OEM and usually an aftermarket OEM equivalent, so if you think going to the stealership means you will automatically get the pads that originally came on your truck and you didn't ensure you specifically asked for these you may not have received them. I used to work for an autoparts chain...I delivered many different sets of pads and rotors to dealerships, and they were usually the white-box or bottom of the carried named-brand line.

5- Lets not forget that when your truck is new that the "OEM" setup will always last longer WHY?...well that's because its new ! there are many factors why your brand spanking new, rust free, very tight, straight, smooth riding truck with brand new calipers will retain the first set of pads for maybe (for some) 7 - 10 years, but installing the same "OEM" pads after that only last for 4 years even with new rotors!

Another huge factor ... going to the dealership to get your parts will cost most people alot more, then using aftermarket stuff..is it worth it?? My opinion NO.

There are better options out there in regards to brake setups ...you need to experiment. OEM setups when they are new are hard to beat for various reasons.

It really comes down to what somebody else said in this post,...and it matters more the quality of brake job performed... heck I take my caliper apart and hone them, I clean and refit with new slider pins, and Brake hardware after cleaning everything up meticulously.

The Question WHICH PADS for plowing and towing? PERFORMANCE - the age old response here would be METALLIC PADS - WHY ? because its the metal shards in the pad material that grab the rotor and help stop your truck when you heavily burdened with a payload, and its the metal shards that scratch the ice away and dig into the rotor when trying not to plow through your customers garage door before doing a pullback.

Although nowadays there are too many options out there, some ceramic hybrids are now performing very well due to the compounds they are using and the friction they produce (with metal shards).

I rarely use the same thing twice and I tend to change my brake set-ups way before they are due, BUT the last install of the Akebono pads I used with the "i can't remember higher quality coated rotors" has lasted me three years without maintenance..from what I remember .. they broke in kind of funny and had this stage where they would over heat, from what I can tell and what I now believe .. this is normal and caused by the pads, and after that went away I have been solidly impressed with the Akebono pads.

I will most likely use Akebono metallic pads again why because they have been working very well and plowing with a crappy setup in 14 inches of snow will have you crapping your pants at some point.

pads I used were:

AKEBONOACT1077AKEBONOACT965

+1 Akebono


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

I wonder what pads and rotors walters use?


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## Army19kilo (Oct 24, 2020)

I forgot to mention Original equipment components are rarely focused on performance instead they tend to be very focused on feel of quality..so for brake pads what probably tops the list for the manufacturer is quietest and cleanest brakes....


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Army19kilo said:


> After painfully reading all the responses I would like to 1 - express that when somebody asks a question its pretty ignorant and rude to respond with more questions and come at thee with a battery of arguments, 2 respond to his question and give him my opinion.
> 
> Instead focus on answering the question. I believe opinions and facts are important if someone is reaching out for answers.
> 
> THE question was which is best Ceramic or Semi metallic, the reason he is asking this is because these are his (and most others) options when shopping for brake components.


The original question was...


Dawdy Services said:


> That is my question witch is better for towing and plowing


Welcoming to the site.
Your criticism of the membership is rude...
We ask questions so we can have a better understanding. This leads to quality answers.

How does a delivery boy know the quality of the parts they deliver without having experience useing them?

Oem isn't always the best, this isn't a opinion.
Aftermarket parts can outlast oem.
Another fact.
I recommend up grading from organic pads to Whatever... but, 
Metallic may be the best brake pads for you if you regularly tow heavy loads.
And you can skip the drilled rotors on a work truck.

But it looks like the op has already replaced the brakes,

I focus on the big picture....
Giving a concise answer,
Without boring them with a manifesto


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Army19kilo said:


> I forgot to mention Original equipment components are rarely focused on performance instead they tend to be very focused on feel of quality..so for brake pads what probably tops the list for the manufacturer is quietest and cleanest brakes....


Is that an option or a fact?

Cheapest, organic seem to be the 
manufactures go to pad. 
Organic is the dirtiest and the cheapest by far and is the most common pad on new vehicles.
It seams price is the biggest factor.

But none of this goes to answer the ops question.


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Read up on ceramic. They have trouble when wet. Look into semi-metallic higher quality.
A fleet mechic I know swears by the good line of Centric brakes for everything he does like trucks towing spray-foam trailers (16-20k load) with one tons.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

dieselss said:


> I wonder what pads and rotors walters use?


No need, they have 100% traction.


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## Army19kilo (Oct 24, 2020)

Hydromaster said:


> The original question was...
> Welcome to the site [I will now attack you personally because I'm really the one that is rude]
> 
> Delivery Boy ? nice touch
> ...


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

The original question gets asked over and over again? I would likento see the data on this.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Army Guy, Yes, start your own a thread on oil.

Drilled rotors are not as robust.
And they are not the best choice for plowing
I actually don’t need the cooling they offer as
I plow in cold snowy weather and the low speeds Don’t generate as much heat.

I have bought numerous trucks with the plow prep, and surprisingly they didn’t come with
Drilled rotors or simi-metallic pads.
They all came with organic pads...
As you say OEM is the best...

Ps naw, you were rude.


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## Army19kilo (Oct 24, 2020)

dieselss said:


> The original question gets asked over and over again? I would likento see the data on this.


LOL do you really want me to do that...you saw what happened to the original post...and I tried to keep it short...yes I'm not perfect either but just do a search for this subject.there is tons of research out there..I do ever time I am about to redo my brakes.

Anybody play with the TRQ brakes? 1A sells them in brake/rotor packages and wondering if anybody has had experience with these. I usally use API (Autopart International) rotors because these seem to be the best rotors I can get locally, they out perform the stuff I can get from the local competition.

Okay heading out to the garage to weld the plow ... peace brothers


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Army19kilo said:


> LOL do you really want me to do that


Yes....I writing a paper and doing research.



Army19kilo said:


> Okay heading out to the garage to weld the plow


Is it a 10 foot frink for a highway truck?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Fact,
Drilled/slotted rotors are less-than-ideal for vehicles that do a lot of towing and hauling due to the possibility of stress fractures.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Hydromaster said:


> Fact,
> Drilled/slotted rotors are less-than-ideal for vehicles that do a lot of towing and hauling due to the possibility of stress fractures.


And they get clogged..


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

napa premium rotors, ceramic pads, dont like drilled and slotted, they are for race cars


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I have never seen where the factory plow prep has a different brake lining compound.


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## Army19kilo (Oct 24, 2020)

Hydromaster said:


> Fact,
> Drilled/slotted rotors are less-than-ideal for vehicles that do a lot of towing and hauling due to the possibility of stress fractures.


Correct .. the less surface area and rotor mass actually causes the rotors to heat up faster, which causes fade which is the thing you don't want to happen while coming down that steep grade with a dozer or excavator on the back of your heavy equipment trailer. But if your not towing near your max or if your in colder conditions like plowing...then drilled and slotted can actually improve your braking. I tend to stay away from the drilled due to sometimes rust faster and yes they can crack.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Army19kilo said:


> Correct .. the less surface area and rotor mass actually causes the rotors to heat up faster, which causes fade which is the thing you don't want to happen while coming down that steep grade with a dozer or excavator on the back of your heavy equipment trailer. But if your not towing near your max or if your in colder conditions like plowing...then drilled and slotted can actually improve your braking. I tend to stay away from the drilled due to sometimes rust faster and yes they can crack.


Do they make those for Walters?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do they make those for Walters?


I think anyone can buy them, doesn't matter what your name is


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