# Welding advice



## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

I have never had any experience with welding my knowledge of it goes about as far as that I know welding involves joining two metals. It is something that I would love to learn. I am going to take a welding class this year in school. I am just wondering what you guys could tell about it (tools, terms, etc.) so I have a little idea whats going on when I get there. Like I say, I dont really know anything, Ill learn it there, but it might be nice to have a little head start.


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

auto darkening helmets are worth ever penny

and dont look at the light...lol


----------



## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Here's what Wiki says about welding...I think it has a lot of the answers you're looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welding


----------



## nickv13412 (Nov 9, 2006)

you can learn a lot from that wikipedia page, so ill just add: dont get frustrated if its hard for you at first, it takes time like anything. a nice way to practice your arc welding is to take an old electrode holder and put a pencil where the rod would be, tape down a sheet of paper to a table, and go to town practicing your form.


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

good idea -


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

nickv13412;566609 said:


> you can learn a lot from that wikipedia page,
> 
> But not the hard part ,actually carrying proper arc length while providing proper travel speed and feed rates, nor the really hard part, starts and re-starts.
> 
> so ill just add: dont get frustrated if its hard for you at first, it takes time like anything. a nice way to practice your arc welding is to take an old electrode holder and put a pencil where the rod would be, tape down a sheet of paper to a table, and go to town practicing your form.


Good for practicing motion, but nothing beats hours at the weld bench. Taking a class is a great way to learn, they're a cheap way to get your practice time with an instructor to help you though the rough parts. Learn to run 6010 and 7018 stick and then you CAN use wikipedia to learn MIG.

Learn it right, there are too many guys running MIG that are more a hazard then anything else. A MIG weld can look pretty but be no more effective then a bead of caulk. Getting good root penetration, and a proper bond involves more then just melting some metal.

Have fun and good luck. Running a weld bead is one of the most fun things to do in the shop. even after 35 years i still get a kick out of it. Especially Alum TIG


----------



## wild bill (Feb 10, 2007)

*welder*

:salute:a lot of welder manufacturer's have tutorial site's , i like miller welder's their are generally local community college courses available .depends on what you ultimately want to weld and why ,but buy your last welder first !


----------



## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

I am actually taking the course at a local college. Once Im done, Id like to buy a welder because the things you can do are countess.


----------



## itsgottobegreen (Mar 31, 2004)

1st buy a Miller welder
2nd buy a welder twice the size you think you need. Because you will out grow your first welder after the first job. (most people buy a 110v machine thinking they are going to do heavy structural welding) 
3rd find someone who knows how to weld to teach your. Old timer retired welders, trade school, etc. 
4th Pratice makes perfict


----------



## rebelplow (Jan 30, 2008)

Welding is a great thing to know how to do. I taught myself how to weld on a gas powered Lincoln stick welder. My first project was a 24' long x 4' wide walking bridge across a creek in my backyard. It was 2"x2" by 1/4" sidewall steel, and I used 6011 rods. It was a lot of work, but I made it about 4 years ago, and it still as straight as the day it was built. The funny thing about that project. I bought a metal cutting bandsaw at Harbor Freight, the $250 one. About 3/4 of the way through cutting all the pieces the bandsaw motor started getting hot, I rigged up some fans to keep it cool. I made the 8th to last cut, and it couldn't take one more minute, and the motor died. I had to finish it off with the Dewalt metal chopsaw. 
I also know a welder who MADE a tree out of rebar. It looks like a real tree. I think it has like 4000 leaves, and 200 pounds of welding rod.


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Buy a DC capable welder, many of the "good" welding rods want to run DC+. 6010 and 7018 rod demand DC to run properly. AC welding is not as smooth, the arc characteristics and control is much better.

Lincoln makes a nice inexspensive "Buzz Box" welder, that's available at Tractor supply and others as well as your local lincoln dealer. 
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=2494

Miller makes a unit as well
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/stick/thunderbolt_xl_ac_dc/

If you can find a Lincoln Idealarc 250 even better, they're twice the money but 3 times the welder. they can also be found cheap ($500-$1000 depending on condition and seller) used.
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=2495


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

basher;569550 said:


> Buy a DC capable welder, many of the "good" welding rods want to run DC+. 6010 and 7018 rod demand DC to run properly. AC welding is not as smooth, the arc characteristics and control is much better.
> 
> Lincoln makes a nice inexspensive "Buzz Box" welder, that's available at Tractor supply and others as well as your local lincoln dealer.
> http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=2494
> ...


Basher is correct, I couldn't weld very well untill I bought a DC welder and it's a Lincoln Idealarc 250, running on 3 phase. That welder makes me look good.


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

JD Dave;569597 said:


> Basher is correct, I couldn't weld very well untill I bought a DC welder and it's a Lincoln Idealarc 250, running on 3 phase. That welder makes me look good.


I went to the Linclon factory school back in the mid 70s we learned on the granddaddy of that machine. Was a fine welding machine back then. i still bleed Lincoln red, and instist instist on 5-P (6010) jetweld (7018) others are good but they brainwashed me well. Over the years I've owned airco, union carbide, linde, miller (Goldstar 300 w/TIG) but the shop's all lincoln now with the exception of the gas drive. It's a Hobart, back before miller bought them, and I like it OK but i only bought it because it was CHEAP.

We run 1 SP-100 for SS Mig a pair of SP-135s for light work and handrail assembly, twin SP-250s, and a Idealarc 300 w/TIG. You're right they make us look good.


----------



## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

farmerkev;567075 said:


> I am actually taking the course at a local college. Once Im done, Id like to buy a welder because the things you can do are countess.


I think the Forge welding method would be best for you Kev! lol


----------



## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

itsgottobegreen;567427 said:


> 1st buy a Miller welder
> 2nd buy a welder twice the size you think you need. Because you will out grow your first welder after the first job. (most people buy a 110v machine thinking they are going to do heavy structural welding)
> 3rd find someone who knows how to weld to teach your. Old timer retired welders, trade school, etc.
> 4th Pratice makes perfect


2, 3 and 4 are all exellent advice.

You'll only learn by doing... practice and patience go a long way toward experience and perfection. You can learn the fundamentals by teach (and classes are a great way to start) but only the hands on will gain you the experience.


----------



## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

More good info, but some of your talk, is a little over my head still with all the numbers.


----------



## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

farmerkev;569773 said:


> More good info, but some of your talk, is a little over my head still with all the numbers.


It'll all become more understandable once you get into the welding courses Kev.

But for example, 7018, 6010, 6011 are all electrode classifications for stick welding rods.

SP-100. SP-175 Idealarc are all models/model #'s of welding machines. They'll teach you the theory and lingo first. That way it won't be a foreign language to you.


----------



## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

farmerkev;569773 said:


> More good info, but some of your talk, is a little over my head still with all the numbers.


Not to worry, these are all things you'll learn in your class.

The best advice I can give for a beginner is to concentrate on penetration and realizing where you are putting the heat (referred to as the puddle) when you are welding. These basics should all be explained in your class.

Total I've had a full year of welding classes all on stick. I would suggest not even pick up a MIG gun until you have stick down fairly well and you realize what needs to be done to make a good weld. That's what I did and it was to my benefit.

Stick will teach you all of the basics in welding i.e:

1)Heat control, how to know if you have your machine set too high or too low based on what you are welding and the rod you are using. When you first start setting up your machine don't even look at the settings, look at the weld and figure out if you need more heat or less and adjust the machine. Amperage/Heat is not always the same for similar weld situations.

2) Feed Control, getting the feel of your hands and realizing how quickly or slowly you need to feed the rod into the weld, this can only come with practice.

3)Speed Control, or how fast you are moving the stick, i.e: moving too fast or too slow through the basic "weave" patterns or a "drag" patterns.

Once you're confident in those basics then you can adapted to MIG or TIG easily. Mig just takes the human factor of feed control out of the equation and does it for you with the machine.

You'll also learn about the dreaded term "undercut", basically when you move to fast or don't have enough heat and don't give the metals enough time to bond together which leaves a hole in the side/edge of the weld.

And as far as a helmet yes an Auto Darkening can be very useful, but they don't work well in low light situations because they are solar powered, that's why I have both and Auto darkening and a regular helmet. If you want to learn the hard way and learn how to become good at flipping your helmet down and striking an arc right away then just get a regular helmet it will only help out in the long run. My job often takes me to large scale fab shops and most of the guys/old timer just use a regular helmet.

On a side note, for selecting a welding machine, I've met so many career fab guys who say that a Miller just plain old outlasts a Lincoln, Miller machines are generally built with bigger electrical components, bigger cooling capacity and won't over heat and stop on you. The majority of large scale fab shops and commercial applications run Millers, Lincolns are good machine it just seems that the commercials guys go with Miller. ESAB is also good equipment. Also Hobart is produced by Miller as well.

Hope the info helps.


----------



## ADMSWELDING (Dec 26, 2005)

Running all Millers at my co. 5 to be exact,most men bleed red,i bleed blue.


----------



## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

My class starts tomorrow, Ill et you know more about what Ill be learning.


----------



## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

Well, one week in and today I finally made my first welds, lets just say its not a naturally aspired talent for me! I was given a 5" by 5" peice of metal and was told to run some beads across it. I spent a good portion of the time trying to figure out how to spark an arc. I finally got it done and ran a few beads, the first few were no more than a bunch of splats all over the piece, and thry began to get more distinctive. My last one was okay, but not real straight. Illl do the same thing tomorrow, and hopefully slowly get better.


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

It's all about practice, sounds like you're on the right trail. What rod are you running?


----------



## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

6013 

*message too short, disregard this part of the message, its sole purpose is to fool PS into thinking I have a larger message than I really do*


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Easy running sheet metal rod. Running AC or DC?


----------



## ABES (Jun 10, 2007)

Kev I noticed you said you are taking the class at a local college. Doesnt your high school offer welding/machining courses. Back in HS I took every welding ,small gas engine, woodworking , and carpentry course offered.


----------



## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

basher;581256 said:


> Easy running sheet metal rod. Running AC or DC?





ABES;581258 said:


> Kev I noticed you said you are taking the class at a local college. Doesnt your high school offer welding/machining courses. Back in HS I took every welding ,small gas engine, woodworking , and carpentry course offered.


We are running DC, right? Damn I cant remember, but i am 99% sure its DC.

ABES, I go to Saint Bernards, if that doesnt tell you anythingm it has to be one of if not the smallest highschool in the metro area. Well probably not, but its small and dont havge many classes in that area. We do have Woods classes, auto, not sure about small engine anymore, along with home maint. The welding is a class thats provided by Saint Paul Public schools, but given at Saint Paul College. If I decided to go into welding, I would already have my credits for these classes, and the best part is, Saint Paul public schools picks up the bill!


----------



## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

farmerkev;581241 said:


> Well, one week in and today I finally made my first welds, lets just say its not a naturally aspired talent for me! I was given a 5" by 5" peice of metal and was told to run some beads across it. *I spent a good portion of the time trying to figure out how to spark an arc.* I finally got it done and ran a few beads, the first few were no more than a bunch of splats all over the piece, and thry began to get more distinctive. My last one was okay, but not real straight. Illl do the same thing tomorrow, and hopefully slowly get better.


Think of striking an arc like striking a match, and the higher amperage setting out of you machine the easier it will be to strike and arc, but don't get in the habit of turning up your machine just to strike an arc.

And remember what I said before, consistent feed and speed is critical in making a smooth weld. Try and get in the habit of thinking in these terms and looking at what you feed and speed are when you're running a bead.


----------



## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks, as the rod got smaller I found it easier. I kept getting the new rods stuck.

Anyway, what I dont get is when I strike a match on say a box, its a long smooth motion. When I strike an arc, dont I want to try and keep the rod in one spot? I ended up figureing out a good match style strike, but thats when the spatting happened.


----------



## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

farmerkev;581279 said:


> Thanks, as the rod got smaller I found it easier. I kept getting the new rods stuck.
> 
> Anyway, what I dont get is when I strike a match on say a box, its a long smooth motion. When I strike an arc, dont I want to try and keep the rod in one spot? I ended up figureing out a good match style strike, but thats when the spatting happened.


Once you strike the arc try and go right into welding somewhat quickly, get your rod to the right distance away from the metal and start welding, a habit of a lot of beginners it to not keep the rod close enough to the weld, that will kind of create the spatter that your talking about.

Also another trick, if your rod just doesn't seem to want to strike, stop and look at the tip of it, some times the flux will be covering most of the metal in the rod preventing it from contacting the metal you are welding. Just take the rod out and tap it against some hard to knock the flux off *just the tip* and expose the rod, then go back at it.


----------



## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks, its a learning process, and they take time but Ill take all the advice I can get.


----------



## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

Well, I made some more welds, and they are getting better. My last few today were pretty good, but I still need some practice. I am also still having a few problems with striking an arc with new rods, but Im having fewer problems with that as well.


----------



## ADMSWELDING (Dec 26, 2005)

If your still having trouble striking and arc take a small handful of say7018 rod wack them on the bench shattering off the flux and start striking and weld a little this is a good method to learn to start an arc.If you can light a bare rod with no flux and get it going you be suprised at how easy u can light a coated rod.This is one of the methods i was shown in HS 19 years ago.Good luck.


----------



## rebelplow (Jan 30, 2008)

ADMS- When I first started reading your post I was thinking how in the world will he weld with a rod with no flux? He's just starting out. But, then again, that is a very neat way to learn. Striking an arc with no flux on the rod is difficult, but if you can do that.. you can surely strike one with a good rod.


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

When we were in school they had us play with "stable arc" basically mild steel rod with a coating of lime on it. great way to learn to strike an arc.


----------



## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks for the advice guys, Ill have to see about that tomorrow. Like I said I am getting better and If we do this another few days, Ill be just fine.


----------

