# New here...How did you expand?



## Letitsnow1990 (Jan 31, 2020)

I have a snow clearing / salting business in Vancouver BC. Yes, we only get about 4.5 days of snow per year, not much. I manage 12 lots, some strata and some commercial. Have access to expand at ease as I have an amazing partnership with another company. 
Right now for equipment, I have :
Truck w/plow & slater (1.5yrd)
UTV
RTV
(3) ATVs
MIni wheel loader

My crew is mostly new every year as this is all I have for the company. 
Looking for suggestions and ideas on how you have expanded?
Was it hiring subs?
Was it front heavy capital investment and acquiring more machinery/equipment?

Would love to hear your thoughts, advice and suggestions.

Have been doing this for 3 years now.
Year over year we have doubled, I know it's still early.....

Thanks in advance 

cheers


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Do you guys really salt anytime the temp reaches below 0° Centigrade or 32° Fahrenheit even if there’s no precipitation at all?
Do you do summer work too? I know turnover is high in this industry, but having summer work will prevent guys from having to find new jobs over the summer and you don’t risk losing them.


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## Letitsnow1990 (Jan 31, 2020)

Hey BossPlow2010!

That’s a negative my friend, we do not. In the case it calls for a possibility of freezing with some precipitation, then yes we will salt.
We don’t get many salting events compared to the East coast or as much snow. Efficiency is key in any business but I feel like in our location, it’s paramount. We have 4.5 days of clearing snow/yr for the past three years and an average of 16 salting events (nights). I have a full time career so I only focus on winter. Tried the excavation works for a few years, didn’t mind it but was making far more money at my career so I didn’t see a point after a few years. I have the ability to remain competitive with pricing and expend year over year due to my relationship/partnership with another company.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I worked hard and not smart then i didn't expand...


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

You and your boss still talk to each other ?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Letitsnow1990 said:


> Hey BossPlow2010!
> 
> That's a negative my friend, we do not. In the case it calls for a possibility of freezing with some precipitation, then yes we will salt.
> We don't get many salting events compared to the East coast or as much snow. Efficiency is key in any business but I feel like in our location, it's paramount. We have 4.5 days of clearing snow/yr for the past three years and an average of 16 salting events (nights). I have a full time career so I only focus on winter. Tried the excavation works for a few years, didn't mind it but was making far more money at my career so I didn't see a point after a few years. I have the ability to remain competitive with pricing and expend year over year due to my relationship/partnership with another company.


Just wondering, there was a fella that used to come here that said they salted everyday.


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## Letitsnow1990 (Jan 31, 2020)

Oh? Haha I would be swimming in $$ if that’s the case. Just a guess...he’s no longer in business? 
Contracts of course vary a little from one to the next but in the area I’m servicing we don’t get many nights, average 16 per winter for the past three years. We service too close to the water, slowly working my way out into the valley where they get double everything it seems.


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## Letitsnow1990 (Jan 31, 2020)

SHAWZER said:


> You and your boss still talk to each other ?


This was meant for me I'm guessing?
I don't have a boss, we work for many companies at any given time. I work at the docks. Trying to build up my winter business and make sure it doesn't fall into the category of a "Hobby".


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Letitsnow1990 said:


> This was meant for me I'm guessing?
> I don't have a boss, we work for many companies at any given time. I work at the docks. Trying to build up my winter business and make sure it doesn't fall into the category of a "Hobby".


That was meant for Markus. He's the boss and employee of his company. There are lots of jokes you'll catch on to if you stick around. Most guys will bend over backwards to help you.


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## Letitsnow1990 (Jan 31, 2020)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> That was meant for Markus. He's the boss and employee of his company.


Well mind my response !


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Letitsnow1990 said:


> Well mind my response !


No worries amigo, I was in the process of editing it... you guys got quite a bit of snow in those 4.5 days if I remember correctly


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## Letitsnow1990 (Jan 31, 2020)

For out here, we did get a nice little dump. Our area was about 5-6” the first day then that turned into 9” in some places....3.5 days straight then 1 random day In Feb!

Thinking about adding a back drag plow to the one truck for our flat rate properties. Do you use them yourself? Any recommendations or thoughts on this?
Ideally I’d like to add a bobcat with a box plow to hammer out the sites but not sure I can pull the trigger this year.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Letitsnow1990 said:


> For out here, we did get a nice little dump. Our area was about 5-6" the first day then that turned into 9" in some places....3.5 days straight then 1 random day In Feb!
> 
> Thinking about adding a back drag plow to the one truck for our flat rate properties. Do you use them yourself? Any recommendations or thoughts on this?
> Ideally I'd like to add a bobcat with a box plow to hammer out the sites but not sure I can pull the trigger this year.


I don't use a back drag plow myself, I have salters in the beds of my trucks... though I think I've seen guys run them even with salters in the bed. 
The bobcat would be a good idea, you could trailer it from site to site with the truck and keep the salter in the bed.


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## Letitsnow1990 (Jan 31, 2020)

Yeah we did the bobcat (no box plow) with my other company....I’ve started my own with no partners this time 
What a headache....


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Letitsnow1990 said:


> I have a snow clearing / salting business in Vancouver BC. Yes, we only get about 4.5 days of snow per year, not much. I manage 12 lots, some strata and some commercial. Have access to expand at ease as I have an amazing partnership with another company.
> Right now for equipment, I have :
> Truck w/plow & slater (1.5yrd)
> UTV
> ...


In the beginning, we did a lot more subbing than handling accounts of our own. Established a very good working relationship with one contractor, and found the rest to be crap. Next yr, only subbed for the one good one, & picked up a few more accounts of our own...as well as invested into a little more tools/equip. The following yr after this, we did the same thing, but got enough work to begin hiring some of our own subs. For several years continued down this path, continuing to sub for the one company & picked up more of our own accounts/subs. 3 yrs ago the Contractor (who really became a good friend to me) passed away. We absorbed some of his best work, picked up more subs/bought a couple more things, and rolled that way for 2 yrs, not subbing out regularly anymore (occasionally we help some of our subs out, if they get in a pinch). This last winter we down sized, my stress levels dropped drastically, margins are higher, and I'm looking at getting out slowly over the next +/-5yrs.

Sounds like you need to maintain what you already have...but need to hire more subs and/or figure out a way to retain a few really good yr round employees. Hard to expand without more help. You can only do so much yourself. Buying equipment/tools only needs to happen when you secure work to justify it.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Letitsnow1990 said:


> I have a snow clearing / salting business in Vancouver BC. Yes, we only get about 4.5 days of snow per year, not much. I manage 12 lots, some strata and some commercial. Have access to expand at ease as I have an amazing partnership with another company.
> Right now for equipment, I have :
> Truck w/plow & slater (1.5yrd)
> UTV
> ...


Good reading here

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/ethical-salting.177947/


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

plow4beer said:


> In the beginning, we did a lot more subbing than handling accounts of our own. Established a very good working relationship with one contractor, and found the rest to be crap. Next yr, only subbed for the one good one, & picked up a few more accounts of our own...as well as invested into a little more tools/equip. The following yr after this, we did the same thing, but got enough work to begin hiring some of our own subs. For several years continued down this path, continuing to sub for the one company & picked up more of our own accounts/subs. 3 yrs ago the Contractor (who really became a good friend to me) passed away. We absorbed some of his best work, picked up more subs/bought a couple more things, and rolled that way for 2 yrs, not subbing out regularly anymore (occasionally we help some of our subs out, if they get in a pinch). This last winter we down sized, my stress levels dropped drastically, margins are higher, and I'm looking at getting out slowly over the next +/-5yrs.
> 
> Sounds like you need to maintain what you already have...but need to hire more subs and/or figure out a way to retain a few really good yr round employees. Hard to expand without more help. You can only do so much yourself. Buying equipment/tools only needs to happen when you secure work to justify it.


This is very similar to my run in the snow biz. All except the guy passing away.

Started subbing with just one truck. Bought another, then more, then machines and stuff... Kept subbing sum stuff for one contractor while finding own work for other stuff. Gradual went to all our own, then had a better opportunity and got out entirely out of snow except a couple really good accounts as a backup when they cannot handle with their own equipment.

I can honestly say that if the sub pay would have been there like it was when I first started subbing, I would have just stayed there and just kept subbing. The issue came when every year the rate went down, but the costs to operate went up.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> This is very similar to my run in the snow biz. All except the guy passing away.
> 
> Started subbing with just one truck. Bought another, then more, then machines and stuff... Kept subbing sum stuff for one contractor while finding own work for other stuff. Gradual went to all our own, then had a better opportunity and got out entirely out of snow except a couple really good accounts as a backup when they cannot handle with their own equipment.
> 
> I can honestly say that if the sub pay would have been there like it was when I first started subbing, I would have just stayed there and just kept subbing. The issue came when every year the rate went down, but the costs to operate went up.


Phil, did you always do the plumbing thing even when you were plowing? Or was it the better opportunity that you took to get out minus the few good accounts?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Phil, did you always do the plumbing thing even when you were plowing? Or was it the better opportunity that you took to get out minus the few good accounts?


I started as a laborer the plumbing trade when I was in high school working for the plumbing shop that plumbed my high school building trades house.

As for working plumbing trade and plowing... yes did both. I had good bosses up until I started my own shop. I have always been on the new construction side of the trade, so work was often spotty in the winter, so I would work my 8, run home and sleep a bit, then plow till I had to go back to work in the AM. If it was possible that I did not have to go to do plumbing, then I would stay out plowing.

I started my plumbing shop when the last plumbing company let me go overnight due to them filing bankruptcy. So that was the better opportunity that made me pretty much quit chasing the plow money.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Most guys will bend over backwards to help you.


Not me, I'm not that flexible.


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## Letitsnow1990 (Jan 31, 2020)

plow4beer said:


> In the beginning, we did a lot more subbing than handling accounts of our own. Established a very good working relationship with one contractor, and found the rest to be crap. Next yr, only subbed for the one good one, & picked up a few more accounts of our own...as well as invested into a little more tools/equip. The following yr after this, we did the same thing, but got enough work to begin hiring some of our own subs. For several years continued down this path, continuing to sub for the one company & picked up more of our own accounts/subs. 3 yrs ago the Contractor (who really became a good friend to me) passed away. We absorbed some of his best work, picked up more subs/bought a couple more things, and rolled that way for 2 yrs, not subbing out regularly anymore (occasionally we help some of our subs out, if they get in a pinch). This last winter we down sized, my stress levels dropped drastically, margins are higher, and I'm looking at getting out slowly over the next +/-5yrs.
> 
> Sounds like you need to maintain what you already have...but need to hire more subs and/or figure out a way to retain a few really good yr round employees. Hard to expand without more help. You can only do so much yourself. Buying equipment/tools only needs to happen when you secure work to justify it.


This is very insightful, thanks for the wealth of info and experience passed on.
My apologies in delay for replying.
This is exactly what we did (leaving on my own from other business partners) and now I'm almost starting again with machinery but still have all the accounts.
Always fun trying to find winter employees who will be on "standby" for the 2 month duration.
I have a bit of equipment already and have just purchased. Hard not going all in with the snow but it's so unpredictable around this part of the world and of course without taking on the snow clearing, I don't get the lots to salt.

Have seven pieces of equipment including my truck/plow. 
I do this on the side as I have a full time career and have been building this up for a few years now. Thanks again!


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

Letitsnow1990 said:


> Oh? Haha I would be swimming in $$ if that's the case. Just a guess...he's no longer in business?
> Contracts of course vary a little from one to the next but in the area I'm servicing we don't get many nights, average 16 per winter for the past three years. We service too close to the water, slowly working my way out into the valley where they get double everything it seems.


I'm guessing Richmond/van area?

There's plenty of contracts out here that overload the sh$t out of salt when its not needed. 
We typically salt 3-4 days as needed -1 below


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## Letitsnow1990 (Jan 31, 2020)

Rook said:


> I'm guessing Richmond/van area?
> 
> There's plenty of contracts out here that overload the sh$t out of salt when its not needed.
> We typically salt 3-4 days as needed -1 below


Yes sir!

And I totally agree, very crazy and not needed at all. Some people wonder why the high turnover of clients......tough one


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