# Looking to sub-contract for commercial accounts



## nmartin

Hello everyone!

My name is Nick, I am the Sourcing Manager for a national facilities maintenance company located in NY. We are new to the exterior services so I am looking to establish a strong base of sub-contractors.

We already do a fair amount of snow (about $200,000 annually, but are currently involved with 4 bids totaling about $25,000,000 so we need subs set up!)

WE DO EVERYTHING! So whether it is land, snow, janitorial, excavation please reach out to me, we would be glad to get some work!

Please call me at (631) 737 3140 ext. 275 or email me at [email protected] and I will be glad to explain the on-boarding process.

We sub-contract all work throughout the country and strive to keep very strong relationships with our subs, we are very flexible with payment and are great to work with!


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## Sawboy

Awesome! Another NSP! Exactly what the industry needs.


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## SnoFarmer

Sawboy said:


> Awesome! Another NSP! Exactly what the industry needs.


There is nothing like making money for the middleman.


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## nmartin

Lol, I understand your guys criticisms, companies like us are not ideal for every contractor but there are some new players to the game that could really benefit from a company like us when they don't have their own client base to start out.

If you guys are getting a lot of work on your own then you don't need to piggyback off us, but there are a lot of small local business that really do appreciate the customers we provide them.


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## SnoFarmer

What you may not or may not know is some NSPs have left a bad taste in a lot of companieys mouths.

You could be a exception but untill you prove yourself you will be treated with skepticism.
( nothing personal)

It's not aboot having work, it's more aboot getting a contract with a large box store,
Without making money for a middleman,
You see, if you are making money,without you ,we could be making more.


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## Sawboy

And it's YOU that piggyback off of us. Get that part straight. You shuffle paper. We WORK.


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## Mike_PS

How about give the guy a chance to discuss it and explain as I don't know if any of you know him personally or the company he works for so no need for any attacks

Thanks


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## Mike_PS

and no, I'm not sticking up for nationals and I don't know him but maybe he's different than what you all are used to dealing with


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## Maclawnco

nmartin said:


> We already do a fair amount of snow (about $200,000 annually, but are currently involved with 4 bids totaling about $25,000,000 so we need subs set up!)


Wow. Going from 200,000 to 25,000,000 is really a heck of a goal. Most companies shoot for a reasonable goal. Sustained growth of 30% annually will get you on the INC 5000 list. And you want to do 12,400% growth? Can't see why that won't work.


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## John_DeereGreen

I'd be much more concerned about cash flow to pay me as a subcontractor than the yearly growth percentage with a sales increase like that.

What if anything do you have in NE OH?


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## BUFF

Maclawnco said:


> Wow. Going from 200,000 to 25,000,000 is really a heck of a goal. Most companies shoot for a reasonable goal. Sustained growth of 30% annually will get you on the INC 5000 list. And you want to do 12,400% growth? Can't see why that won't work.


 It has to be a typo.......Annual Revenue reported is $5,337,084.00
https://www.dandb.com/businessdirec...ignandlightingllc-ronkonkoma-ny-36436664.html


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## Maclawnco

BUFF said:


> It has to be a typo.......Annual Revenue reported is $5,337,084.00
> https://www.dandb.com/businessdirec...ignandlightingllc-ronkonkoma-ny-36436664.html


Let's assume it was a type and he meant 2 million in snow - I don't believe that since the commas don't often auto full. But let's assume. From 2 million to 25 million is still 1,150% growth. That would put them roughly top 100 on the INC5000. Just like JDG said, you can't cashflow that sort of growth. My grandmother used to say I had eyes bigger than my stomach. I think they have plans bigger than their wallet.


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## Randall Ave

From what I read. The snow sales are the 200000.00. They must be going for a big box store nationwide account. If that's the case, what are the payment terms, and could they post a generic copy of their contract.


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## BUFF

Rather than speculating I'm going to wait for Nick to respond.....


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## FredG

Growth potential could be all smoke. I would be more concerned in the 10 page contract and the flexible payments. Your in NY and so am I where is the work?


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## nmartin

Randall Ave said:


> From what I read. The snow sales are the 200000.00. They must be going for a big box store nationwide account. If that's the case, what are the payment terms, and could they post a generic copy of their contract.


^^^ This is correct, previously most of the snow we have done is for accounts that we provide "full facility service," and the bulk of the account is not in snow removal. This year is our first trip to The Thunderdome that's why I am trying to go straight to the source and learn as much as possible.

Although I have been getting a lot of criticism from this thread, I have also received some pretty informative responses. 

Our Terms are Net 60 - and we have bid everywhere that it snows, including NY.


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## kimber750

So you are robbing Peter to pay Paul with Net 60. You want the contractor to foot the bill for 60 days of work plus start up costs while you are out nothing. What happens when the actual client doesn't pay? Does contractor still get paid? What are your insurance requirements? The thing most Nationals don't seem to realize is they need people like us. And if you want good contractors you need to pay a decent wage on time. Sadly this is not the norm with Nationals. So take this as you may but remember we are a real grumpy group of people. You will have a long road to plow to get these guys and gals on your side. Good luck. Thumbs Up


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## nmartin

kimber750 said:


> So you are robbing Peter to pay Paul with Net 60. You want the contractor to foot the bill for 60 days of work plus start up costs while you are out nothing. What happens when the actual client doesn't pay? Does contractor still get paid? What are your insurance requirements? The thing most Nationals don't seem to realize is they need people like us. And if you want good contractors you need to pay a decent wage on time. Sadly this is not the norm with Nationals. So take this as you may but remember we are a real grumpy group of people. You will have a long road to plow to get these guys and gals on your side. Good luck. Thumbs Up


We do tend to be flexible with our terms, we totally understand the importance of our sub-contractors and honestly I think it is the number one most important aspect of the business. We will ALWAYS pay our subs no matter if we get paid by the client or not.


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## FredG

Of course you will get criticism, The industry does not like middle men That don't supply equipment or labor etc and have a reputation for not paying. You play in the rain you have to deal with the mud. You have been asked numerous questions of where work is located, You say NY, What counties? We now no net 60 days. What about your contract? How many pages?

I won't bash you in anyway because you have done me no wrong. What summer operation are you involved in on said property's besides mowing. Any Sanitary, storm, blacktop, concrete, demolition, land clearing etc? 

Few of these ?'s answered you may get some better response.


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## nmartin

I would be glad to answer all of these questions but I would prefer to speak over the phone or via email rather than posting all on the site.

If you are truly interested in working with us (or at least checking us out) call me at (631) 737 3140 ext. 275


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## kimber750

nmartin said:


> We do tend to be flexible with our terms, we totally understand the importance of our sub-contractors and honestly I think it is the number one most important aspect of the business. We will ALWAYS pay our subs no matter if we get paid by the client or not.


Point I was trying to make is that it costs us a lot of money at the beginning of the season. We spend thousands and thousands of dollars on salt alone. There is equipment prep and maintenance. Our employees don't wait 60 days to get paid. I truly hope you will be one of the good guys. There are plenty of people that depend on Nationals for their work. If you turn out to be one of the good guys this site will become one of your best resources. Like I said before, Good Luck to you.


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## nmartin

Thanks guys! I really do appreciate both the support and the criticism! Trust me, if I planned on screwing anyone over I wouldn't be jumping right into the lion's den lol.


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## FredG

60 days is not clean biz to me. Invoice every 30 days and paid in 35 days or so is the way it should be. Don't want to finance anybody's jobs for free and no collateral. If I go to the bank for 60 day note this cost me money. Salt is not cheap and needs to be stored. No credit available on salt around here anymore. Good Luck.


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## nmartin

FredG said:


> 60 days is not clean biz to me. Invoice every 30 days and paid in 35 days or so is the way it should be. Don't want to finance anybody's jobs for free and no collateral. If I go to the bank for 60 day note this cost me money. Salt is not cheap and needs to be stored. No credit available on salt around here anymore. Good Luck.


Will will work with many service providers on a Net 30 term, meaning the check is cut and mailed 15 days after invoice is received and you receive it within 15 from there (accounting for shipping time).

Like I said, we are flexible.


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## kimber750

nmartin said:


> Will will work with many service providers on a Net 30 term, meaning the check is cut and mailed 15 days after invoice is received and you receive it within 15 from there (accounting for shipping time).
> 
> Like I said, we are flexible.


Take a minute and do a search for Ferrandino & Son. This will show you what you are up against here. It is nice to see a rep from National interacting with the group. Stick with it, listen, avoid being pulled down the rabbit hole and you may leave here with some good contractors and a good idea of what it looks like from the other side of the fence.

You are still a little early yet. Site won't really pick up for another month or two. Just a handful of old snow dogs hanging around to keep MJD busy.


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## BUFF

nmartin said:


> Will work with many service providers on a Net 30 term, meaning the check is cut and mailed 15 days after invoice is received and you receive it within 15 from there (accounting for shipping time).
> Like I said, we are flexible.


That's pretty admirable.... My labor are all subs and I pay within 7days of being invoiced. IMO they're more receptive to working all hours and any day of the week as needed.
So are your 30day terms something the contractor needs to bring up during the negotiation process?



kimber750 said:


> Take a minute and do a search for Ferrandino & Son. This will show you what you are up against here.


Those threads have been retired long ago and justifiably so.....


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## FredG

BUFF said:


> That's pretty admirable.... My labor are all subs and I pay within 7days of being invoiced. IMO they're more receptive to working all hours and any day of the week as needed.
> So are your 30day terms something the contractor needs to bring up during the negotiation process?
> 
> Those threads have been retired long ago and justifiably so.....


5 to 7 days after invoice is the norm.


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## JMHConstruction

I give him credit for not just making the thread and leaving him number and never coming back, but instead staying with it and answering most questions or concerns. I personally don't like working for someone who isn't local, but I understand the guys who do or have to. I just would rather be able to go knocking on your door if I had a concern. Good luck. I know a lot of these guys have been screwed pretty bad by other nationals, some even had to close their doors because of nonpayment. Hope you guys are different, sounds like might be.


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## John_DeereGreen

Send me an email if you would please, I would like more information on what you have in our service area.

I'm willing to give anyone a fair shake, my only fear is payment as I said earlier just due to the cash flow of the growth you're taking about.

[email protected]

Thanks!


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## Luther

nmartin said:


> Lol, I understand your guys criticisms, companies like us are not ideal for every contractor but there are some new players to the game that could really benefit from a company like us when they don't have their own client base to start out.


Why would you want new players to the game servicing your national clients? And what kind of post storm verification do you have in place for your clients?

You'll be different if you put in writing that you pay your service providers in 30 days, pay them regardless if you get paid or not and not pass on all the liability on to the service provider with a broadly worded indemnification clause in your contract.


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## FredG

John_DeereGreen said:


> Send me an email if you would please, I would like more information on what you have in our service area.
> 
> I'm willing to give anyone a fair shake, my only fear is payment as I said earlier just due to the cash flow of the growth you're taking about.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> Thanks!


Did Nick contact you? He has a nice job about 90 minutes from me. He appears to be a nice guy. I'm like you I don't want to bash him as he has done me no wrong. I did not sign up tho. Still got cold feet from my last biz deal with a national.


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## John_DeereGreen

I haven't heard anything yet, but I'm not expecting to until Monday.


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## Sawboy

Exactly. Are you gonna take your share of responsibility in liability, or just shuffle that on down to us?


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## CARDOCTOR

just want to get in before this thread goes puff.:blob2::blob2:


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## Vala

nmartin said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> My name is Nick, I am the Sourcing Manager for a national facilities maintenance company located in NY. We are new to the exterior services so I am looking to establish a strong base of sub-contractors.
> 
> We already do a fair amount of snow (about $200,000 annually, but are currently involved with 4 bids totaling about $25,000,000 so we need subs set up!)
> 
> WE DO EVERYTHING! So whether it is land, snow, janitorial, excavation please reach out to me, we would be glad to get some work!
> 
> Please call me at (631) 737 3140 ext. 275 or email me at [email protected] and I will be glad to explain the on-boarding process.
> 
> We sub-contract all work throughout the country and strive to keep very strong relationships with our subs, we are very flexible with payment and are great to work with!


Hi Nick., Would be really interested to learn more about what kind of sub you are looking for. I'm in NJ General contractor with licenses...


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## John_DeereGreen

I still haven't heard anything either.

[email protected]


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## iceyman

Maybe the bids went south


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## FredG

He is a vendor, Did you expect a response? He will respond if he thinks he will need you! Good Luck


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## Defcon 5

FredG said:


> He is a vendor, Did you expect a response? He will respond if he thinks he will need you! Good Luck


Posting at 2am Fred???...Did you have your party hat on last night??....Old guy Like you that's pushing the envelope.......:waving:


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## FredG

Defcon 5 said:


> Posting at 2am Fred???...Did you have your party hat on last night??....Old guy Like you that's pushing the envelope.......:waving:


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Did I make any sense? I'm on my first smoke and coffee, My head feels like its going to pop, Hope I grow up one of these days.  :waving:


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