# Metal Pless Live Edge Premature wear on feet



## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

we've got some metal press live boxes that the skis, skids, feet, whatever you want to call them, the steel is getting chewed up on them way quicker then it should be I feel. Even after ensuring operators were operating them correctly, the front half of the skis seems to be burned up incredibly fast considering we don't average that many plowable events in RI. Boxes are run on an assortment of stuff from Cat 259 skid to 906 Wheel Loader. 

We have some live edge units on loaders with moveable wings and the skis on those seem to not be getting the same amount of wear. In fact I think our 12-24 plowmax live edge is going on into its fourth season and the skis look pretty great still. The live edge box skis look tired half way through the season.

Has anyone encountered this? I had a set of them repaired last year and it cost me a fortune. Trying to figure out a solution to get more life out of them


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Yes and it's a pain. 

We tried removing the springs to reduce downpressure but then the wings got stuck up in the air. 

We've been using AR500 in place of whatever OEM is. Seems like we went thicker than OEM as well. 

Sorry, it was a couple years ago and I don't remember specifics. I can check and get back to you. 

Doing the same thing on our Normand blowers too. Cheaper than buying OEM replacements.


----------



## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

The LiveBoxx plows skid shoes are made from AR400 steel. If the are wearing out quickly in the the front means the operators are putting to much forward curl on the plow.
What Mark suggested is not a bad idea, by removing the down pressure spring your skid shoes will float better and not wear out prematurely in front. If you find the wings sticking try and loosen the main bolt a quarter turn.
Your LiveEdge hydraulic wing plows have carbide inserts in both the main moldboard and on the wings, that is why they are lasting so long.
Typically you will need to replace the wing cutting edges at least once more then the main moldboard.
If you have any questions you can call me directly at 514-608-4675, I will be happy to discuss this in greater detail.


----------



## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Now that's why you buy metal pless. The guy gives you his number and will take your call and answer your questions.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Neige said:


> The LiveBoxx plows skid shoes are made from AR400 steel. If the are wearing out quickly in the the front means the operators are putting to much forward curl on the plow.
> What Mark suggested is not a bad idea, by removing the down pressure spring your skid shoes will float better and not wear out prematurely in front. If you find the wings sticking try and loosen the main bolt a quarter turn.
> Your LiveEdge hydraulic wing plows have carbide inserts in both the main moldboard and on the wings, that is why they are lasting so long.
> Typically you will need to replace the wing cutting edges at least once more then the main moldboard.
> If you have any questions you can call me directly at 514-608-4675, I will be happy to discuss this in greater detail.


Why not put carbide on the LiveBoxx Plows skid shoes? Cost?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Neige said:


> What Mark suggested is not a bad idea, by removing the down pressure spring your skid shoes will float better and not wear out prematurely in front. If you find the wings sticking try and loosen the main bolt a quarter turn.


Interesting, this would make sense why we didn't have problems on our 10' LiveBoxx but did on our 18'.


----------



## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

The guys are going to start running through these for preseason prep this week. I'm going to tinker with the springs like you both talked about and see if the reduction in pressure allows less force on the front skis. 

It makes sense the skis are AR but I am surprised because the fab shop made it sound like they didn't believe it was. Either way I'm going to get eyes on them this week and report back. Thanks for the help Mark And Neige


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

abbe said:


> It makes sense the skis are AR but I am surprised because the fab shop made it sound like they didn't believe it was.


We bought some AR for our HLA last year. Within 3 or 4 pushes we had to flip it. Brought it back to the supplier and they said either their supplier screwed up or they pulled the wrong stuff off the rack.

Years back Boss had some bad steel come through...could wear a cutting edge down in 1 night.

Maybe that was the problem, maybe not.


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> We bought some AR for our HLA last year. Within 3 or 4 pushes we had to flip it. Brought it back to the supplier and they said either their supplier screwed up or they pulled the wrong stuff off the rack.
> 
> Years back Boss had some bad steel come through...could wear a cutting edge down in 1 night.
> 
> Maybe that was the problem, maybe not.


Chinese steal?


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Chinese steal?


I'm going with Tood driving...


----------



## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

Mark are you talking about the side spring that is mounted with a single bolt up top on the side of the box? It looks like there is three holes and all of mine are mounted in the center hole. In theory moving to the hole in the rear should take some tension off it?


----------



## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

Reviving this thread again, as we are putting pushers on site and I realized another one has this issue. We backed the skid springs back to the least amount of tension on the last bolt hole. All of my operators are pretty good and I have no issues with wear or damage anywhere else besides the front corners on these skids. Would layering a sacrificial piece of AR welded to the bottom of the OEM ski potentially help us? Could cut it off every year and attach a new one? 

If in fact it is due to operator error, its going to be very difficult to police all of our operators and make sure they dont do this.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

We're basically burning through the shoes in a season. Or enough I don't want to push my luck. 

Bought another set and am going to keep a good set on hand. We've been using either AR 400 or 500, I don't recall which. Seems like we went a bit thicker the last time too. Probably could have gotten another season out of them, but that type of thinking always bites me in the arse.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

abbe said:


> Reviving this thread again, as we are putting pushers on site and I realized another one has this issue. We backed the skid springs back to the least amount of tension on the last bolt hole. All of my operators are pretty good and I have no issues with wear or damage anywhere else besides the front corners on these skids. Would layering a sacrificial piece of AR welded to the bottom of the OEM ski potentially help us? Could cut it off every year and attach a new one?
> 
> If in fact it is due to operator error, its going to be very difficult to police all of our operators and make sure they dont do this.
> 
> ...


We do it with the Arctics, just keep adding worn out cutting edge metal to the bottoms of the shoes.

Does yours have the leveling steel flags on the sides? I thought I seen older ones didnt, but not sure.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

abbe said:


> Reviving this thread again, as we are putting pushers on site and I realized another one has this issue. We backed the skid springs back to the least amount of tension on the last bolt hole. All of my operators are pretty good and I have no issues with wear or damage anywhere else besides the front corners on these skids. Would layering a sacrificial piece of AR welded to the bottom of the OEM ski potentially help us? Could cut it off every year and attach a new one?
> 
> If in fact it is due to operator error, its going to be very difficult to police all of our operators and make sure they dont do this.
> 
> ...





Mark Oomkes said:


> We're basically burning through the shoes in a season. Or enough I don't want to push my luck.
> 
> Bought another set and am going to keep a good set on hand. We've been using either AR 400 or 500, I don't recall which. Seems like we went a bit thicker the last time too. Probably could have gotten another season out of them, but that type of thinking always bites me in the arse.


How about Hard Face welding the skid shoe?
Or adding an edge with carbide inserts in it. Something like this:EQB Bullet-36


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> We do it with the Arctics, just keep adding worn out cutting edge metal to the bottoms of the shoes.


Too bad there isn't a thread that you could have posted that to as a suggestion of what to do with a worn cutting edge


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

As funny as that is there's no need to toss out bait to pull in those that tend to troll.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Who?


----------



## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> We're basically burning through the shoes in a season. Or enough I don't want to push my luck.
> 
> Bought another set and am going to keep a good set on hand. We've been using either AR 400 or 500, I don't recall which. Seems like we went a bit thicker the last time too. Probably could have gotten another season out of them, but that type of thinking always bites me in the arse.


Okay so it isn't just me. I also feel like we don't get enough snow to justify that type of wear on these things seasonally. Did you purchase a whole replacement set from MP and then basically swap them in and repair your worn ones as needed? I like the idea of a used cutting edge. 

I had thought about hard facing but we dont stick weld in house so id have to track someone down. 

Its tough because we love the way they produce but this is getting pricey with 6 Live boxes. As stated early, our Live edge wing plows have no issues at all.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

abbe said:


> I also feel like we don't get enough snow to justify that type of wear on these things seasonally. Did you purchase a whole replacement set from MP and then basically swap them in and repair your worn ones as needed? I like the idea of a used cutting edge.


This time, yes. Otherwise we just replaced the part that is on the ground. We will repair the old ones and keep them on hand. 



abbe said:


> I had thought about hard facing but we dont stick weld in house so id have to track someone down.


Ho boy...not the stick welding debate again. 



abbe said:


> Its tough because we love the way they produce but this is getting pricey with 6 Live boxes. As stated early, our Live edge wing plows have no issues at all.


I just replaced wing edges on my 936-15, it went into service fall of 2017. So 5 seasons, pretty happy about that and the actual cutting edges have a long way to go. Thinking about doing my 830-13. 

I had a box because my sub wouldn't get a quick attach or tird valve. Now that I'm buying my own I'll never run anything but a PlowMaxx/MaxxPro. The productivity is so much greater and you can get into so many more areas with a 10' or 12' moldboard.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Ho boy...not the stick welding debate again.


Need to broaden your interweb use.....
Hard Face Wire has been around for a while.... it's not cheap but neither are Hard Face Stinger's






Lincore® 50


Iron-based chromium carbide alloys designed for applications subject to abrasion accompanied by impact from rock, ore, clay, sand or cement.




www.lincolnelectric.com










Airgas - LINED037270 - .045" Lincore® 50 Hard Facing MIG Wire 10 lb


Iron-based chromium carbide alloys designed for applications with abrasion accompanied by impact.




www.airgas.com


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BUFF said:


> Need to broaden your interweb use.....
> Hard Face Wire has been around for a while.... it's not cheap but neither are Hard Face Stinger's
> 
> 
> ...


I should try that but, I know we talked about it before. But with all the cutting edge laying around its more fiscally (Thanks Matt) responsible to just tack that on... And a big enough Horror Freight wire machine will do just fine...


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I should try that but, I know we talked about it before. But with all the cutting edge laying around its more fiscally (Thanks Matt) responsible to just tack that on... And a big enough Horror Freight wire machine will do just fine...


You're welcome F***ing Juan


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Need to broaden your interweb use.....
> Hard Face Wire has been around for a while.... it's not cheap but neither are Hard Face Stinger's
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not the one that mentioned stick welding for hardfacing...


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

I’ve never done any hard facing with a wire feed
That’s MP$$$$$


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> I’ve never done any hard facing with a wire feed
> That’s MP$$$$$


Way to be fiscally responsible...


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm not the one that mentioned stick welding for hardfacing...


Nor did I


----------



## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

Just had a pile of Hardox dropped at the shop. Going to be hopefully fixing this skid issues once and for all. Will report back. And no it was not cheap but doing it once and right


----------



## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

Here is the first attempt. Will report back after we scrape with it


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

abbe said:


> Here is the first attempt. Will report back after we scrape with it


Doesn't look like that'll be any time soon based on the forecast now


----------



## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Wait till you need to replace the live edges themselves!!! I love metal pless but holy moly nearly $7000 to do a 10-16 has me thinking no thanks... 

$4800 for the live edges, $500 for each wing, $500 shipping and say 6-800 to install cutting everything off and new stainless hardware


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

How many seasons did you get out of it before replacing?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I've got 5 1/2 seasons on a 936-15 and a lot of life left in the main edge. Finally replaced the wing edges this year. 

And following behind these things, I absolutely love the finished product. One customer had a big shindig yesterday starting at 9 and we were running a little behind. Between the LiveEdge and treated salt, lot was bare within minutes of salt application. This was at 845-900.


----------



## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

I haven't had to do a set on any of our wing plows yet. The carbide seems to be holding up great. But we also dont get a ton of snow here. Like Mark said, can't beat finished product. Trying to get pavement wet from a rubber edge will make you feel like you are smashing your head against a wall versus the live edge. Little sprinkling of material post scrape and you've got wet pavement. Makes it all worth it from the cost perspective


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Hmmmm now everyone has me wondering if I made a bad choice of buying a couple...

Only have 30" on them so far, maybe 20hrs tops. 

I'm not seeing a night day difference between Arctic as for scrape, but do like the Arctic wings better as far as flexibility...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

HLA edge was every year.



ProTech rubber edges were about 2 years.



Plus the HLA had to be flipped. And rubber edges need to be adjusted annually at minimum.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Hmmmm now everyone has me wondering if I made a bad choice of buying a couple...
> 
> Only have 30" on them so far, maybe 20hrs tops.
> 
> I'm not seeing a night day difference between Arctic as for scrape, but do like the Arctic wings better as far as flexibility...


If MP wasn't available I would run Arctics. 

One of the reasons I don't is I have yet to see one that is still straight after a few seasons. And Farmer Dave Snyder ran one for a year and then didn't. 

How much do Arctic edges cost to replace? And is the breaking block issue finally resolved?


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> How much do Arctic edges cost to replace? And is the breaking block issue finally resolved?


Edges are in the $70-100 range each from Winter Services. Or were last year when I got some. Shoes are silly, $1400+/- a set... I think WS also has a kit for those in the $2500 range...

Once again blocks are based on operators... Yeah you'll break some here and there, yeah they wear and start to sag... I have not had any with the limiters and I assume they help too...


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Once again blocks are based on operators...


So, you are saying it's "user error"? Shocking!!


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Edges are in the $70-100 range each from Winter Services. Or were last year when I got some. Shoes are silly, $1400+/- a set... I think WS also has a kit for those in the $2500 range...
> 
> Once again blocks are based on operators... Yeah you'll break some here and there, yeah they wear and start to sag... I have not had any with the limiters and I assume they help too...


You can replace a lot of blocks and cutting edges for $7000.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> You can replace a lot of blocks and cutting edges for $7000.


Labor?

Lost production?


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Labor?
> 
> Lost production?


We never lost production and my labor isn’t worth much


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

LapeerLandscape said:


> You can replace a lot of blocks and cutting edges for $7000.



Yeah we'll see how she goes, Already dropped five bucks at Menards for one on a stainless cap headed bolt and nylon lock nut...


----------



## CCSnow (Jan 25, 2016)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Yeah we'll see how she goes, Already dropped five bucks at Menards for one on a stainless cap headed bolt and nylon lock nut...


Threaded rod would have been stronger.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

CCSnow said:


> Threaded rod would have been stronger.


Only if it's Grade 8.....


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

CCSnow said:


> Threaded rod would have been stronger.


Not looking at it now, but I think a cap head is all that would work. I couldn't even use a normal bolt. It really just acts as a pin to hold the spring in place and doesn't need much strength.

I just think it was loose and fell out TBH...


----------

