# My first commercial bid - tell me if I'm off.



## sodfathermn (7 mo ago)

66k square feet. Pretty open parking lot, good space to push the snow. Also shoveling sidewalks and salting sidewalks/parking lot. I have it at $575 with a 1" trigger and $853 with a 2" trigger. This is a per event bid. 

Am I close? Way off? I'm in MN BTW.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Wouldn’t get near that in SE Michigan.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Post a picture of the site. How long do you estimate to perform the service?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Guess it depends on where in Minniesoda you are.


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## sodfathermn (7 mo ago)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Wouldn’t get near that in SE Michigan.


How far down do I need to go?


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## sodfathermn (7 mo ago)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Guess it depends on where in Minniesoda you are.


45 min north of the twin cities


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Itemize your proposal. How much are you charging to plow… shovel… deice the sidewalks and deice the parking lot.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

sodfathermn said:


> 45 min north of the twin cities


From what I've heard, you might not be too far off.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Your going to service a lot that is 45min away?

is this drive still a 45min(one way) with a loaded plow truck in a snow storm?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Hydromaster said:


> Your going to service a lot that is 45min away?
> 
> it this drive still a 54min with a loaded plow truck in a snow storm?


I'm still waiting for @Mark Oomkes to plow my driveway from last winter. He said he's on the way but I don't believe him. I'm sure he'll say "I'm bizzie"


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## sodfathermn (7 mo ago)

Luther said:


> Itemize your proposal. How much are you charging to plow… shovel… deice the sidewalks and deice the parking lot.


I


Hydromaster said:


> Your going to service a lot that is 45min away?
> 
> it this drive still a 54min with a loaded plow truck in a snow storm?


The lot is 5 minutes from my shop.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

So it’s not 45 min away…..

is your shop 40min from home?


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## sodfathermn (7 mo ago)

Hydromaster said:


> So it’s not 45 min away…..
> 
> is your shop 40min from home?


I’m confused about this 45 min thing…how’s it relevant?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

sodfathermn said:


> I’m confused about this 45 min thing…how’s it relevant?


You are asking why the distance you have to travel during a blizzard to service an account should have an effect on the price you'd need to charge?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm still waiting for @Mark Oomkes to plow my driveway from last winter. He said he's on the way but I don't believe him. I'm sure he'll say "I'm bizzie"


I call bullshirt...there's no way it hasn't melted by now.


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## sodfathermn (7 mo ago)

cwren2472 said:


> You are asking why the distance you have to travel during a blizzard to service account should have an effect on the price you'd need to charge?


No, I’m confused about it because unless I worded something incorrectly, that’s not accurate. I don’t have to travel. The lot is within a 5 minute drive from my house and shop.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I call bullshirt...there's no way it hasn't melted by now.


Prove it.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

sodfathermn said:


> No, I’m confused about it because unless I worded something incorrectly, that’s not accurate. I don’t have to travel. The lot is within a 5 minute drive from my house and shop.


Sorry, I went back and reread your posts. You didn't word it incorrectly, @Hydromaster read it incorrectly.

Edit: or maybe not. I see the other thread he's quoting now.

Double edit: I'm so confused....


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

sodfathermn said:


> I’m confused about this 45 min thing…how’s it relevant?





sodfathermn said:


> Depends on the density of what you have. If there’s a few I’d be willing to go 30-45 min out.


Is where it came from.
30-45mim , one way is to far for just one customer. Jmo.

.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

cwren2472 said:


> Sorry, I went back and reread your posts. You didn't word it incorrectly, @Hydromaster read it incorrectly.
> 
> Edit: or maybe not. I see the other thread he's quoting now.
> 
> Double edit: I'm so confused....


totality of his posts,

he was talking about traveling 30-45min,

… not 5 min away.

without the details we can only go by what he posted.


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## sodfathermn (7 mo ago)

cwren2472 said:


> Sorry, I went back and reread your posts. You didn't word it incorrectly, @Hydromaster read it incorrectly.
> 
> Edit: or maybe not. I see the other thread he's quoting now.
> 
> Double edit: I'm so confused....


To clarify…
This customer is only a 5 minute drive for me.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

$575 to plow ?
66,000sq ft =2.52 acres


or did I get the sq ft wrong????
Cwren?

ps will you be salting too?
Any sidewalks or a loading dock?


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## sodfathermn (7 mo ago)

Hydromaster said:


> Is where it came from.
> 30-45mim , one way is to far for just one customer. Jmo.
> 
> .


That was from a different thread…not the same job site.


Hydromaster said:


> $575 to plow ?
> 66,000sq ft =2.52 acres
> 
> 
> ...


That is correct. 575 at a 1 inch trigger. That’s plowing, sidewalks and salting sidewalks/parking lot.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Prove it.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> View attachment 253992


#fakenews


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> #fakenews


Start an A4 investigative hearing.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Sq footage of sidewalk
And
How much is it if you only spread salt ?

The average plowjockey can clear an acre in 45 minutes + or -


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Hydromaster said:


> $575 to plow ?
> 66,000sq ft =2.52 acres
> 
> 
> ...


66,000 feet is not 2.52 acres 
It’s 1.5 acres.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> 66,000 feet is not 2.52 acres
> It’s 1.5 acres.


Maybe the OP was using metric acres.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Still trying to find that first conversion site I used because all I did is copy, cut and paste what it gave me for an answer.

actually it’s
66000 Square Feet
1.51515152 Acres

Unless there’s a lot of sidewalk or something else we don’t know about your price seems a bit high for a hour and a half worth of work.
Jmo,
how much if you just salted the lot?

how much does your business need to earn an hour to be profitable?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Hydromaster said:


> Lol
> Still trying to find that first conversion site I used because all I did is copy, cut and paste what it gave me for an answer.


Just blame Google. Everything is their fault anyway.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> Still trying to find that first conversion site I used because all I did is copy, cut and paste what it gave me for an answer.
> 
> actually it’s
> 66000 Square Feet
> ...


Could explain the bait fish pics we keep getting.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Could explain the bait fish pics we keep getting.


sigh,
That might hurt if I wasn’t coming from a guy who thinks a little snake northern is worth posting pictures about…


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm curious on these 1" trigger accounts.
1)what ( how much) do you charge when the forecast is wrong and you wake up at 4am to do site checks when no snow was in the forecast, and there is 3" on the ground already?
You already missed the 1" trigger, and should have plowed 3X's .
So is the first push 3X the price?
2) if it continues to precipitate 1"/ hour. Or in this case even .5"/hour, as it will take 2+/- hours to complete a round. You are staying on site continuously providing service?
A) what if you don't complete the entire round of service of the lot because your tied up with the walks? Or vice versa?
Do you prorate the price?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

jonniesmooth said:


> I'm curious on these 1" trigger accounts.
> 1)what ( how much) do you charge when the forecast is wrong and you wake up at 4am to do site checks when no snow was in the forecast, and there is 3" on the ground already?
> You already missed the 1" trigger, and should have plowed 3X's .
> So is the first push 3X the price?
> ...


We don’t do per event pricing other than our seasonal accounts are based on “x” number of events. However in our per push accounts we do, we stipulate in our contracts that while 1” or even less (icing events) is our minimum amount of snow, their will occasionally be more than 1” of snow on the property, I think if that’s made clear up front (in writing) it helps eliminate unobtainable expectations. Also, the reason “zero tolerance” shouldn’t be used in this industry.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Also, the reason “zero tolerance” shouldn’t be used in this industry.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

cwren2472 said:


>











Zero Tolerance Snow Removal Services


When you need Zero Tolerance snow & Ice removal, call us at Westfield Landscape Co. We have been providing better contractors in Aurora, IL, for over 15 years.



www.westfieldlandscape.com




🍺🥜


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jonniesmooth said:


> I'm curious on these 1" trigger accounts.
> 1)what ( how much) do you charge when the forecast is wrong and you wake up at 4am to do site checks when no snow was in the forecast, and there is 3" on the ground already?
> You already missed the 1" trigger, and should have plowed 3X's .
> So is the first push 3X the price?


Why does a 1" trigger mean you plow every inch? Why can't it mean plowing starts at 1" instead of 4 or 15?


jonniesmooth said:


> 2) if it continues to precipitate 1"/ hour. Or in this case even .5"/hour, as it will take 2+/- hours to complete a round. You are staying on site continuously providing service?
> A) what if you don't complete the entire round of service of the lot because your tied up with the walks? Or vice versa?
> Do you prorate the price?


Why would it be prorated? Why wouldn't he complete it and then start over?

Trigger depth is when we will plow (for the most part). It doesn't mean that we clear it every time there is that amount accumulated. 

If one had a 2" trigger on a driveway and there was 2" at midnight and another 2" by 4 AM, why would you plow it twice and bill the customer for 2 plows when he only needs it cleared by 7 AM to leave for work? 

We have some with a 1" trigger, and even during long duration events, we leave some parking lots unplowed after the initial plowing to focus on the important areas. One is a 4-5 hour account just for plowing. If it snows an inch per hour and the assumption was plowing every inch I'd have to go from 1 piece of equipment to 5 pieces. That isn't reasonable or expected.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Hydromaster said:


> Zero Tolerance Snow Removal Services
> 
> 
> When you need Zero Tolerance snow & Ice removal, call us at Westfield Landscape Co. We have been providing better contractors in Aurora, IL, for over 15 years.
> ...


From that company's page:

"We will meet with you to discuss your property and set realistic goals for your property ice and snow removal requirements "

So, if my goal is "zero tolerance", then I assume that means that expecting *Zero Tolerance *from a company that uses the phrase *Zero Tolerance* 15 times on one page (thank you Ctrl-F) would be unrealistic...?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> From that company's page:
> 
> "We will meet with you to discuss your property and set realistic goals for your property ice and snow removal requirements "
> 
> So, if my goal is "zero tolerance", then I assume that means that expecting *Zero Tolerance *from a company that uses the phrase *Zero Tolerance* 15 times on one page (thank you Ctrl-F) would be unrealistic...?


Also assuming they don't own any plows. Not sure why they specifically mention brooms.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Also assuming they don't own any plows. Not sure why they specifically mention brooms.


Simple. You can handle anything with enough brooms.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Sew to achieve 0 tolerance it sounds like they Vancouver the heck out of everything.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> Sew to achieve 0 tolerance it sounds like they Vancouver the heck out of everything.


OR build a dome...


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

$575 seams high for a hr, he+15min.

How much an hour does your company need to turn a profit?

and how much do you charge to apply 10-50lbs of salt?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> OR build a dome...


Go green and use geothermal and a heat pump to heat the pavement?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> 10-50lbs of salt?


At least 5x as much for 50# as 10#.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm still waiting for @Mark Oomkes to plow my driveway from last winter. He said he's on the way but I don't believe him. I'm sure he'll say "I'm bizzie"


I sent him a job application two years ago. Still waiting for a response. I wrote it out in the crayola rainbow color set. Tried to show my creativity.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Also assuming they don't own any plows. Not sure why they specifically mention brooms.


The website picture shows a Ferd F150 with a plastic SnoWay plow, enough said.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Randall Ave said:


> I sent him a job application two years ago. Still waiting for a response. I wrote it out in the crayola rainbow color set. Tried to show my creativity.


You've seen my weather maps, if I received it I would have hired you.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You've seen my weather maps, if I received it I would have hired you.


Looks like I might be going to cwren2472 place for training first.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why does a 1" trigger mean you plow every inch? Why can't it mean plowing starts at 1" instead of 4 or 15?
> 
> 
> Why would it be prorated? Why wouldn't he complete it and then start over?
> ...


Thanks. But I wasn't asking ewe.


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## TwiceStroked (Feb 8, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Start an A4 investigative hearing.


IBF is booting Ur doors right about .....NOW


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