# Snow Routes



## preferredlawncare.pl (2 mo ago)

I have always created my snow routes via excel; however, it is tedious, time consuming, and hate it; however, for now it works. Beginning next year I have decided to get with the times and go to a management software. but in the meantime I was wondering how do you manage your routes? I currently have 11 plow routes, 2 salt routes, 5 loader routes, 2 HOA routes, and 5 sidewalk maintenance routes with two snow raider routes. This is a lot of planning, prepping and headaches. I think next year will be much easier once I implement the software and tablets for the employees. However, in the meantime I am curious how others handle this? Thanks for any ideas.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

We're phasing out of CLIP into SingleOps. 

At this time I would not recommend it. We were sold a lot more than what it is and it is extremely lacking on the snow end. But we're committed for now so hopefully they take some constructive criticism.

I don't remember what thread, but there are some dedicated snow software programs out there.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> We're phasing out of CLIP into SingleOps.
> 
> At this time I would not recommend it. We were sold a lot more than what it is and it is extremely lacking on the snow end. But we're committed for now so hopefully they take some constructive criticism.


I'm sure the developers are working on it


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> We're phasing out of CLIP into SingleOps.
> 
> At this time I would not recommend it. We were sold a lot more than what it is and it is extremely lacking on the snow end. But we're committed for now so hopefully they take some constructive criticism.
> 
> I don't remember what thread, but there are some dedicated snow software programs out there.


I’m sure your input is very important to them.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Hydromaster said:


> I’m sure your input is very important to them.


"Hey, guys! Come over here! We got another email from that Oomkes guy!"


----------



## Kevin_NJ (Jul 24, 2003)

Let's not clog up the new guy's thread with insider jokes too much please.

@preferredlawncare.pl Welcome to PlowSite! I did a quick search for some existing threads that might be of help. Hopefully the link will work for you, it did when I tested it. 









Search results for query: software +route







www.plowsite.com


----------



## Plowing to the 80's (1 mo ago)

I've tried LMN and know of a pretty big company that uses it. I wasnt a fan and moved away from it pretty quickly. Ended up using autopilot for a season of lawns, it was ok.

We am now using follosoft and it's about as good as it gets. We used it for a season and made several suggestions that they were able to implement. It is really slick and I would highly recommend looking into it.


----------



## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

We use YetiSnow. Full transparency we are on the small end compared to what the OP mentioned scale wise, so I'd suspect my needs are apples to oranges.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Kvston said:


> We use YetiSnow. Full transparency we are on the small end compared to what the OP mentioned scale wise, so I'd suspect my needs are apples to oranges.


Do you do billing with yeti? Or does it push it to quickbooks


----------



## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Do you do billing with yeti? Or does it push it to quickbooks


We use quickbooks pro online. When we signed up Yeti didn't have the ability to push over to the online version. That was supposedly coming in an update. I don't think the invoice girls have looked. They just got used to checking the service tables. I'll ask the rep.


----------



## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

I checked their website, it does integrate with the proper service plans. Link enclosed. I'm on the tier that does not have it since we are small. Can't comment on how well it works. Ask for Bart Huber and he will be straight with you on how well it works.






Pricing


Yeti's unique pricing is based on sites you manage and not per user. In fact, Yeti lets you have unlimited users, FOREVER!




www.yetisnow.com


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm sure the developers are working on it


I was just informed they are not working on it. We need to "conform" to their system. 

So let me ask if this is just me. 

CLIP has a "Charge Over Max" feature. We use this for those that don't sign up for unlimited plowing. We budget for 25 pushes, will "give" them 2 free pushes (since some years we don't hit 25 pushes) so we set the "Charge Over Max" to 27 and the dollar amount. For plow #28, they get charged. This is all one job. 

SingleOps wants us to create 2 jobs. One contract and one per push. And we have to monitor how many pushes we have and manually change over to the per push job when we hit #28. 

In my world, that is a step backwards, not forwards. CLIP has had this feature for 20 years. QXpress had this feature. 2 jobs cluttering up a customer file. Manually tracking how many pushes we have performed and then manually using that second job. Rather than all this happening automagically. 

Then again, looking at the new software here, maybe I'm mistaken. And going backwards is the new thing in software.


----------



## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Some days I just walk backwards ....... 🙄


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)




----------



## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

But I am stuck between grade 1 and 2 .....


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

SHAWZER said:


> But I am stuck between grade 1 and 2 .....


We took that into consideration, We also took into consideration that you might be using a crayon, that is why we opted to go with the wide rule


----------



## Plowing to the 80's (1 mo ago)

Used yeti for one season 3 years ago. Wasnt what we were looking for and certainly cant do what we can with followsoft. The text notifications alone are a game changer.


----------



## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

No crayons , colored markers now .

My snow route is house numbers computer printed on 1 sheet of paper enclosed in see through plastic . 

The largest - boldest numbers that my wife could fit on 1 page .


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Plowing to the 80's said:


> Used yeti for one season 3 years ago. Wasnt what we were looking for and certainly cant do what we can with followsoft. The text notifications alone are a game changer.


Please splain further. 

Text notifications for what? 

I am starting to think I am going to have to use a dedicated software for snow and another for green work.


----------



## Plowing to the 80's (1 mo ago)

We only use the text feature for our residential operation. Our drivers have a tablet with their route on it. It's basically google maps with a line and arrows you follow. All of the properties are geofenced so when the driver enters the driveway and breaks the geofence, it will send a text notification to the 10th house down the list.

When the drivers leave the yard and we enable notifications, the first 10 people on the route get a text that we are coming so they can move their car. When we get to house 1, it will text house 11 and so on.

It also allows us to send bulk emails so we always do email updates leading up to the storm to make our customers aware of our plan of attack. We can send the emails based on routes or any other tag you assign to a customer.

You can also track your driveway markers, visits and anything else you need. Doesnt sync with quickbooks but you can just do a bulk entry.

We run a very smooth operation due to the software.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Not sure my customers want a text at Ohdarkthirty to move their car, but cool.


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not sure my customers want a text at Ohdarkthirty to move their car, but cool.


If there's a car(s) we work up to a couple of feet away and they're SOL


----------



## Plowing to the 80's (1 mo ago)

We do our first pass overnight completing before 7am just to open up their driveway. We then do our notification pass after 8am.


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Plowing to the 80's said:


> We do our first pass overnight completing before 7am just to open up their driveway. We then do our notification pass after 8am.


Do you charge for the call back?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

We do one pass unless it keeps snowing.


----------



## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

Plowing to the 80's said:


> We do our first pass overnight completing before 7am just to open up their driveway. We then do our notification pass after 8am.


Why not do just one pass? I can understand if it's a huge storm. But doing that every event seems like a nightmare.

And I wouldnt want to be bothered by the plowguy. Seems like getting a text every single snowfall would be really irritating. I get enough texts as it is.


----------



## Plowing to the 80's (1 mo ago)

If you're only doing a one and done, how do you clean the windrow from the city plow? Also, a nightmare for who? Certainly not for us and not one customer has ever complained that we do too good of a job.

I'm in a small city of 50,000 people and we have over 1000 residential customers. People LOVE the text feature and of course, you can opt out and not get your entire driveway scraped.


----------



## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Plowing to the 80's said:


> If you're only doing a one and done, how do you clean the windrow from the city plow? Also, a nightmare for who? Certainly not for us and not one customer has ever complained that we do too good of a job.


IMO they need to understand they either wait for city to plow then you service the driveway or you do it and there's a windrow at the end of the drive. Either way they get 1 service visit or pay for another or partial clean up fee.


----------



## Plowing to the 80's (1 mo ago)

That's not our business model and definitely not our mentality. They dont need to understand anything other than we have them covered.


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Def depends on the area. When SIMA had the show in Montreal they did a shop tour of one of the bigger plow companies and I thought it was nuts that they would run through the route again at the end to cover the windrow from the city... but that was what the customer expected if they hired a plow company and that's what the market demanded.
Around me it's completely unnecessary (and therefore not factored into the price as its not what the market demands) because after the plow passes there is a backhoe coming along right behind it to clear the windrow.

Looks like this


----------



## Plowing to the 80's (1 mo ago)

That's interesting, never heard of the city clearing windrows.


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Plowing to the 80's said:


> That's interesting, never heard of the city clearing windrows.


Kind of a double edged sword in a sense.... there is more need for a customer to hire a plow company in your area because of the windrow... but that means you're going out at the end to clean it up.... in my area I might not get hired because the customer doesn't see the need for a plow company because there isn't a 3 ft mound of heavy snow at the end of their driveway... but I'm going home earlier if they do hire me

Edit: sorry, I know this thread isn't about windrows, I use fieldcentral in the summer, it works great for irrigation. I don't bother with it in the winter because I don't do much residential.... wait, maybe this is about windrows


----------



## Plowing to the 80's (1 mo ago)

We can do 100+ driveways in 6 hours and a good number of windrows get cleared on the 2nd pass. For the driveways where the plow or sidewalk guy went by after we were there, we go back on request.

We have set our bar pretty high and our customers have become used to that kind of service and expect it now. For example, our contract says 5cm but we'll go for 2cm. It's kind of funny how the "complaints" have evolved over the last couple years. The expectations are super high and we take it as a huge compliment.

But none of that is possible without the software we use. I am 100% certain we would not have experienced the growth we did without follosoft. It's not cheap but it is very effective. Not as complicated as autopilot and seeing all your routes on the map with icons for all your driveways gives really good perspective. It also makes routing is super easy.


----------



## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Where in Canada are you located ?


----------



## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

Plowing to the 80's said:


> *If you're only doing a one and done, how do you clean the windrow from the city plow?*
> _There usually isnt one until late. Most subdivisions around here don't get plowed until late afternoon or next day. We offer return trip free of charge but rarely need to except after large storms. And we clean the roadway prior to the drive so no need to return. A pass or two helps a lot._
> 
> * Also, a nightmare for who? Certainly not for us and not one customer has ever complained that we do too good of a job.*
> ...


Where in Canada are you?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So Yeti only syncs with QB online? 

And Follosoft doesn't sync with the largest accounting software in the world at all? 

I'll be asking each a few questions, but this seems ridiculous.


----------



## Plowing to the 80's (1 mo ago)

I'm in ontario.

Not syncing with qb does suck, but easy work around via bulk entry.


----------



## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So Yeti only syncs with QB online?
> 
> And Follosoft doesn't sync with the largest accounting software in the world at all?
> 
> I'll be asking each a few questions, but this seems ridiculous.


Seriously Mark call them up and ask for Bart Huber. I was only asking about my version of QuickBooks. You could ask about yours.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Kvston said:


> Seriously Mark call them up and ask for Bart Huber. I was only asking about my version of QuickBooks. You could ask about yours.


I emailed them. 

Not sure if I'm switching or not, I have another email the CFO is going look over before it gets sent. 

Just going on what their website says though.


----------



## sota (Jan 31, 2011)

m_ice said:


> If there's a car(s) we work up to a couple of feet away and they're SOL


oh don't even get me started on that crap. i've got a couple special ed houses where they just can't seem to comprehend keeping their damn vehicles out of the way of my work. I'm not waiting around 10 minutes for you to warm up your cars and pull it out of the way either.


----------



## sota (Jan 31, 2011)

as for routing, since my route hasn't really changed much in the last 5 years it was easy enough to hand plot it on google maps, iterate a couple of times to get a good tight route, and leave it at that. adds/deletes haven't caused a massive change in routing. I print out a new worksheet every storm with all the addresses, and write in time in/time out, etc.


----------



## Plowing to the 80's (1 mo ago)

Nothing wrong with paper lists, I did it for a few years. We've simply outgrown being able to do it on paper. The other benefits to software is the gps tracking for liability and billing if you're by the push or hourly.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LOL...ask tough questions and you get fired as a customer. 

Apparently SingleOps doesn't like tough questions or how things work. Or getting called out when they lie.

Guess the search better start in earnest.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> LOL...ask tough questions and you get fired as a customer.
> 
> Apparently SingleOps doesn't like tough questions or how things work. Or getting called out when they lie.
> 
> Guess the search better start in earnest.


Gonna guess that after your last email they said the same thing as my last private message to you


----------



## STARSHIP (Dec 18, 2000)

I too need to change, as I am still using CLIP, and their ITC is not really what I want to continue with. I have been watching and reading what others are doing regarding software, and it has been confusing and hard to figure out what exactly to do. Thank you for some of this discussion, as it helps clarify and muddy things up for me, lol.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

STARSHIP said:


> I too need to change, as I am still using CLIP, and their ITC is not really what I want to continue with. I have been watching and reading what others are doing regarding software, and it has been confusing and hard to figure out what exactly to do. Thank you for some of this discussion, as it helps clarify and muddy things up for me, lol.


I can't remember if I have your email?

PM Me with it and I'll forward my discussion with the folks at SingleOps to you. It will explain some of the major issues I had. I know Herm thinks it has potential, but I see way too many missing features and several steps backwards that just aren't going to work for me. And they don't want to take any suggestions for improvements.


----------



## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

So if I understand correctly Mark:
1. Invoicing needs to be from the software to QB seamlessly.
2. Routing is a must.
3. You prefer the software does green and white services.
4. You’d prefer to have input.

missing anything?


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Def depends on the area. When SIMA had the show in Montreal they did a shop tour of one of the bigger plow companies and I thought it was nuts that they would run through the route again at the end to cover the windrow from the city... but that was what the customer expected if they hired a plow company and that's what the market demanded.
> Around me it's completely unnecessary (and therefore not factored into the price as its not what the market demands) because after the plow passes there is a backhoe coming along right behind it to clear the windrow.
> 
> Looks like this
> ...


Try having a County hiway as your main St lined with 2 Town sidewalks, 1 town sidewalk plow with no timing plan and a county plow truck that just runs loops several times per event. The calls are interesting....


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Mr.Markus said:


> Try having a County hiway as your main St lined with 2 Town sidewalks, 1 town sidewalk plow with no timing plan and a county plow truck that just runs loops several times per event. The calls are interesting....


I bet one of the sidewalks is the beginning of the sidewalk plows route and the other sidewalk is the end of the route


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

What..!? Did you learn about gambling at the GTG...?


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Mr.Markus said:


> What..!? Did you learn about gambling at the GTG...?


Plowing snow is gambling enough for me, haha


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Plowing snow is gambling enough for me, haha


You have to be good at gambling to make it in the snow business... lol


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Kvston said:


> So if I understand correctly Mark:
> 1. Invoicing needs to be from the software to QB seamlessly.
> 2. Routing is a must.
> 3. You prefer the software does green and white services.
> ...


1) Preferably otherwise it's a step backwards. 
2) Preferably otherwise it's a step backwards. 
3) Preferably but if I have to use 2, so be it. Rather have 1 each doing both well than 1 that does both half-assed. 
4) Depends on if they understand the industry...either one. If you have zero experience in the industry or no accounting background, don't try to design and sell a software program and not take input. Especially if someone has been using industry specific software that one had to logout of windows and use C:dos to start the program. Yes, I started with CLIP in '94 or '95.


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> 1) Preferably otherwise it's a step backwards.
> 2) Preferably otherwise it's a step backwards.
> 3) Preferably but if I have to use 2, so be it. Rather have 1 each doing both well than 1 that does both half-assed.
> 4) Depends on if they understand the industry...either one. If you have zero experience in the industry or no accounting background, don't try to design and sell a software program and not take input. Especially if someone has been using industry specific software that one had to logout of windows and use C:dos to start the program. Yes, I started with CLIP in '94 or '95.


What were you using previously? Or currently I guess


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

CLIP


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

The biggest pain about trying different services is it takes an astronomical amount of time to get all the bugs and kinks worked out and transfer stuff over, and it seems like these software companies abandon you after they make the sale.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> 4. If you have zero experience in the industry or no accounting background, don't try to design and sell a software program and not take input.


I told that to SAP last year, for repetitive maintenance it’s great, for on demand services it’s below 50’ of whale crap. It blew my mind that a company in Texas could write program for snow and ice and then design the program based on certain laws in certain states. (Eg. you can’t delete a snow service event, even if it’s an error.


----------



## avery_734 (1 mo ago)

Plowing to the 80's said:


> We only use the text feature for our residential operation. Our drivers have a tablet with their route on it. It's basically google maps with a line and arrows you follow. All of the properties are geofenced so when the driver enters the driveway and breaks the geofence, it will send a text notification to the 10th house down the list. When the drivers leave the yard and we enable notifications, the first 10 people on the route get a text that we are coming so they can move their car. When we get to house 1, it will text house 11 and so on. It also allows us to send bulk emails so we always do email updates leading up to the storm to make our customers aware of our plan of attack. We can send the emails based on routes or any other tag you assign to a customer. You can also track your driveway markers, visits and anything else you need. Doesnt sync with quickbooks but you can just do a bulk entry. We run a very smooth operation due to the software.


 What Software is this?


----------



## avery_734 (1 mo ago)

Plowing to the 80's said:


> We only use the text feature for our residential operation. Our drivers have a tablet with their route on it. It's basically google maps with a line and arrows you follow. All of the properties are geofenced so when the driver enters the driveway and breaks the geofence, it will send a text notification to the 10th house down the list.
> 
> When the drivers leave the yard and we enable notifications, the first 10 people on the route get a text that we are coming so they can move their car. When we get to house 1, it will text house 11 and so on.
> 
> ...



What software is this?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

avery_734 said:


> What Software is this?





Plowing to the 80's said:


> We am now using follosoft and it's about as good as it gets. We used it for a season and made several suggestions that they were able to implement. It is really slick and I would highly recommend looking into it.


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Being a 1 man operation with a client list less than 60 properties, GPS tracking is my only criteria, if it has an efficient routing, arrival time log in and completion/departure time with the possibility to add pictures/notes. I'm pretty happy. I don't need something to link to my accounting, or text my customers.
All my customers # are in my phone, they can call me with questions, if need be and I personally answer or get right back to them.
I was paper up until a few years ago when the pressure from insurance etc was to go gps.

Trying out Route planning and optimization apps for businesses. this year... This seems like my kind of pun, and for $10 month how could I not try it out.


----------



## Plowing to the 80's (1 mo ago)

Meant to quote avery...

As Mark said, Follosoft. It's not cheap but well worth the money.

As we all know, it's tough finding guys. Follosoft has actually helped with that. When I interview someone, I always have it running on my computer and show them. It's very impressive to see all the driveways we have as icons scattered on the map in our little city. It's very easy to flip between routes for hand crews, loaders and sanders. Once they see what we have going on, they are usually eager to get on board.


----------

