# LBZ or LMM



## mule585 (Oct 24, 2010)

So I'm lookin to add a new truck to the fleet and need some feedback. I'm lookin at a 2006 or the 2007 Chevy 2500hd crew cab. Any and all info will help a lot. I'm mostly stuck on engine choice, the LBZ or LMM. But anything about either truck I should be aware of. I will be putting a 8'6" pro-plus on it, doing a lot of towing with it and will probably be my daily driver. A power controller will be added so info on this as well would be great. Thanks in advance.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Check out http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/? Lots of info on pros and cons of each.Seems like most love their lbz's.lmm have the regen feature,lots of complaints about problems with this. I have lly and have had no problems, lbz supposed to be a improved version of lly.lbz older body style lmm newer.


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## Mr. Jon (Feb 24, 2010)

I have a 2007 LMM 156k miles with 8' western pro plus, plowing since new. Either truck you'll need to crank the t-bars, add timbrens and shim them down, and weld gussets in the frame to prevent cracking with the weight of the plow. As far as the engine I have no complaints and it has incredible power. I added a programmer & exhaust and now get 19-20 mpg highway, and average 16.5 city/highway. I tow a Bobcat excavator 12k lbs. no problem, upgraded hitch (18k) and good trailer brakes.


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

I LOVED my LBZ and it retained its value very well too. They are highly sought after trucks.


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## mule585 (Oct 24, 2010)

I have noticed that with the LBZ they are generally the same price if not more expensive than the LMM. How are the blind spots on the 07 I have yet to drive one and wondering if the higher bed sides make a difference.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

How do higher bed sides affect visibility?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

The frames are exactly the same on an LBZ or LMM. The NBS looks better and you can delete the dpf if you really want to if you buy a tuner. My LMM puller runs an LBZ motor and injectors so I know they're exactly the same. I'd never pay more money for an LBZ. Both trucks will handle the plow exactly the same. An LMM has a better transfercase then the LBZ.


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## jmac5058 (Sep 28, 2009)

2COR517;1488214 said:


> How do higher bed sides affect visibility?


It does make a noticable diffrence , the cab sticks above the bed rail much less on LMMs and makes rear visibility more difficult. Companies that make headache racks now have shorter versions so they dont stick up too far. GM and Toyota have changed the ratio of the whole truck with huge bodys and smaller upper cabs ( glass area ) with Dodge and Ford still staying more traditional.


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## Plow More (May 26, 2009)

With the weak front end of a chevy i would just get a ford. The only way to go when your looking for a truck to perform work imo


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

The Chevy has a weak front end?


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

Plow More;1488602 said:


> With the weak front end of a chevy i would just get a ford. The only way to go when your looking for a truck to perform work imo


I must not work my truck then if it's still holding up fine.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Plow More;1488602 said:


> With the weak front end of a chevy i would just get a ford. The only way to go when your looking for a truck to perform work imo


Hmmm---weak front end?Is that maybe the reason my truck that now has 154K miles,which tows heavy fairly often,has a 9-2 Boss V plow on it now for 3 Winters,has 4K lbs. of Magic salt in the hopper,has all original ball joints,tie rods,pitman,idler arms AND original front brakes,it keeps on going?????I guess if it was a ''strong'' front end like a Ford it wouldn't bode as well.


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## jmac5058 (Sep 28, 2009)

The ONLY thing a Ford front end does better is Death Wobble. You can have your real truck I gave up on ford in 09.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Plow More;1488602 said:


> With the weak front end of a chevy i would just get a ford. The only way to go when your looking for a truck to perform work imo


The money you save on front ends can be used for transmission repairspayup


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

leigh;1488684 said:


> The money you save on front ends can be used for transmission repairspayup


No one mentioned Dodge...


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## vegaman04 (Dec 12, 2007)

............................


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## mule585 (Oct 24, 2010)

Had a ford and it was a pile!!!!! The front end was a joke. Between the wobble, hubs, springs hell everything was replaced every year. The $2500 rotting oil pan. 5mpg plowing Yah that truck sucked!!!!


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## mule585 (Oct 24, 2010)

O and my 2500 I have now has over 240,000 miles with original ball joints, hubs, and swaybar links.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

A onetime modification vs a lifetime of annual wheel joints and ball joints at a grand or so? Not to mention the priceless death wobble...


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## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

2COR517;1488653 said:


> The Chevy has a weak front end?


News to me after 10 years and 225K miles


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## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

LBZ if you can find one that's in good shape with reasonable miles for a decent price. IMO the LBZ is the duramax to have- especially the later ones from mid-'06 on with the improved head gaskets- I researched for many hours before I bought my late '06 LBZ- found it to be the best pre-emission Duramax out there... plus it has the 6 speed Allison Thumbs Up


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## badabing1512 (Aug 28, 2008)

spend a few extra bucks and buy an 11, worth every penny IMO


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Anyone remember Dan Akroyd's Dec-A-Bet skit on Saturday Night Live?


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

Love my lbz but know plenty of happy campers out there with lmm's


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

badabing1512;1491186 said:


> spend a few extra bucks and buy an 11, worth every penny IMO


And not have Efi-Live. One huge negative against the LML trucks, otherwise they are pretty sweet.


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## RichG53 (Sep 16, 2008)

Have they determined what causes the death wobble ??? I have heard of this with wrangler jeeps ..


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## woodchuck2 (Dec 4, 2010)

LBZ IMO, i have had two of them. One i sold to get out of the payment and the other has been plowing residential/commercial for 6yrs now. At 137k miles i finally put a second wheel bearing in it, one tie rod and the dealer replaced the steering box at 70k under warranty because the tech didnt feel like changing the leaky seal. The only mods to the front end is tie rod sleeves. Oh, and i just replaced the original shocks front and rear.

As far as the big 3 go they all have their advantages and problems. For me after driving Ford, Dodge and now GM i must say the D-Max has been the most reliable and trouble free truck for what i do with it. How many guys out there can feel 100% confident in their truck and the driveline when plowing a blizzard at 3am. Not once have i thought will the tranny hold out through the storm, or will it start being this cold, is the u-joint going to last till the route is cleaned?


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## mule585 (Oct 24, 2010)

im leaning more towards the lbz now but the new body style is starting to grow on me. im a fan of the big power and thick black smoke (prius repellent) which i cant get from the lmm unless i do the dpf delete. im lookin to get in to sled pulling too, prolly the 2.6 class does any one have in-site on how the lmm does on the track or if you can even use it since i have yet to see any at the pulls.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

mule585;1492077 said:


> im leaning more towards the lbz now but the new body style is starting to grow on me. im a fan of the big power and thick black smoke (prius repellent) which i cant get from the lmm unless i do the dpf delete. im lookin to get in to sled pulling too, prolly the 2.6 class does any one have in-site on how the lmm does on the track or if you can even use it since i have yet to see any at the pulls.


A. Black smoke on the street is NOT cool. 
B. You can get big power and very little smoke.
C. The DPF should be one of the first things off an LMM along with a good tune.
D. Plowing and running the 2.6 class with the same truck will be pretty difficult and require a lot of changes between summer and winter.


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## badabing1512 (Aug 28, 2008)

Mark13;1491265 said:


> And not have Efi-Live. One huge negative against the LML trucks, otherwise they are pretty sweet.


I have efi live on my other truck and a nice as it is i would never thing twice about buying an 11 because efi cant tap the ecm, theyre just that much better than the old trucks.


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## jmac5058 (Sep 28, 2009)

The new frames in 2011s and up are the biggest improvements made to GM trucks in a decade and changes the front axles ratings from 4800 lbs to 6000 lbs . For snow plowing thats huge , you can put a Blizzard 810 on a 2500 and not drop 1/2" no timbrens or airbags just set the adjustable tortion bars for a plow for the winter and set them back in the spring for the best ride in the HD truck world.


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## RichG53 (Sep 16, 2008)

WOW !! I'm impressed to read this...So GM-Chey are listening to us ??
What do you mean by adjustable torsion bars ??? they are all adjustable..


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

I don't think the torsion bar itself can be adjusted. The spring is set during manufacturing


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

RichG53;1492574 said:


> WOW !! I'm impressed to read this...So GM-Chey are listening to us ??
> What do you mean by adjustable torsion bars ??? they are all adjustable..


Jmac knows that he was just saying. There is no comparison between an 11+ truck and the older ones. The 11 is plain and simple a better truck for hauling and plowing.


mule585;1492077 said:


> im leaning more towards the lbz now but the new body style is starting to grow on me. im a fan of the big power and thick black smoke (prius repellent) which i cant get from the lmm unless i do the dpf delete. im lookin to get in to sled pulling too, prolly the 2.6 class does any one have in-site on how the lmm does on the track or if you can even use it since i have yet to see any at the pulls.


The 11's use a totally different computer system and EFI live will eventually figure it out. I've pulled with my LMM for 4 years now, go back to my earlier video's to see how it progressed. Once you delete the DPF you basically have an LBZ.


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## jmac5058 (Sep 28, 2009)

2COR517;1492583 said:


> I don't think the torsion bar itself can be adjusted. The spring is set during manufacturing


The new frames have T-bars with 3 diffrent setting made to be cranked up when adding a plow to the front . Not like the old ones that people randomly crank . Plus the FGVW has gone up to 6000 lbs from 4800 lbs.


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## jmac5058 (Sep 28, 2009)

JD Dave;1492586 said:


> Jmac knows that he was just saying. There is no comparison between an 11+ truck and the older ones. The 11 is plain and simple a better truck for hauling and plowing.
> 
> The 11's use a totally different computer system and EFI live will eventually figure it out. I've pulled with my LMM for 4 years now, go back to my earlier video's to see how it progressed. Once you delete the DPF you basically have an LBZ.


On the 11s GM has locked the ECM making it illegal to enter . For that reason EFI live is never going to make tunes for 2011s and up.


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## RichG53 (Sep 16, 2008)

Nice video...I love seeing Power at work....Truck seemed to handle it very well ..


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

jmac5058;1494333 said:


> On the 11s GM has locked the ECM making it illegal to enter . For that reason EFI live is never going to make tunes for 2011s and up.


I wouldn't say never after reading this directly from EFI Live. 


EFI Support;386020 said:


> I'll stop teasing now  probably the biggest thing for our Duramax customers is hidden about 1/2 way through Ross's post.......
> 
> *The third new ECM we also plan to partially incorporate in to this release is the 2011 LML Duramax E86 ECM. This will be ECM read only, but it will allow us to build a nice library of different factory tunes for them. This ECM is a 100% new design from Bosch with very little in common with the outgoing LMM E35 ECM, so some long days are ahead for us!*
> 
> ...


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## RichG53 (Sep 16, 2008)

Any one have pic's of the new torsion bars ?? I'm curious to see how they work..


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