# mounting a poly edge



## Shady Brook (Sep 8, 2001)

I am trying to mount the edge, and want to get it right the first time. Dino said to not have it extend more then 2" beyond the mold board. If I turn the steel edge over in the front, that only gives me a 7/8 overhang on the front edge. Is this enough to get optimum performance from the poly edge? Any suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks
Jay


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

The steel edge is supposed to act like a big washer or plate to sandwich the U edge to the moldboard. What kind of plow is it? I think that it will be fine. If you want find another plower and get a more worn piece of steel. From what I hear the U edges wear very slowly and you should have plenty of room. 

Incidently I am not sold on them yet. I would be interested in learning more. Dino I did not get to you at the BBQ. Would like to have you send me some more info.

Snow is coming!!!


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## Shady Brook (Sep 8, 2001)

I have a Western plow. I wonder if I could have it two inches below the front plate of steel, and unsupported in the rear to maybe 3.5 inches, or this would be two much flexibility in the rear. Measure twice drill once... 

I am dying to go put her on!

Thanks
Jay


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## 1759 (Nov 16, 2000)

Nothing does a better all around job than a steel edge -- period! The only time a poly edge out performs a steel edge is plowing slush at 40 degrees.


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

That has been my thought. A quiet edge is worthless to me if it is not clearing snow. No matter what I think it will pick up loose stone and grass. Maybe I am wrong.


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## SlimJim Z71 (Nov 8, 2000)

I just got one also... let me tell ya, this thing WILL move snow just fine. It's 1.5inches thick!!! It's very rigged, and I believe will outperform a steel edge in every way except for scraping ice... which is not what I want to be doing with my truck anyway... that's what I bought a spreader for.

Just my thoughts...


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

Ok

I understand the bennefits of the U-Edge.

However I also understand a little phyiscs. The U-Edge is thicker than a steel edge. 

So lets do a little math.

The formual for pressure is Force / Area.

Now I have a 8' long 3/4" thick steel edge. With is not important for this calculation.

8 feet * 3/4" = an area of = 6 so now we have our area

Force:

Lets say the average 8' plow weighs 500 lbs. Again exact numbers are not required for this calculation.

The Force is equal to the 500 lbs times the force of gravity 9.8 

so our force is equal too : 500 * 9.8 = 4900 

This is for the steel edge.
So now our pressure : 4900 ( Our Force) 
------- = A Pressure of 816 and 2/3 PSI
6 ( Our Area )

Now The U Edge:

Again 8' * 1.5" thick = an area of = 12 (note the are is twice as much)

Lets say we have the same 500 lbs plow, with same force of gravity. So our force is still 4900 

4900 ( our force)
-------- = a Pressure of 408 and 1/2 PSI. Half of the steel edge.
12 ( our area)

So the thicker edge is giving you a lower pressure, so the amout of force placed on the packed snow is less. 

Now my thought process might not even be correct, I haven't the last time I was in physics was 1983. However I just can't see how the laws of physics don't hold true for this subject. 

Now the snowway plow makes things even tougher, because it adds down pressure. Even with the added pressure, the steel will put more pressure to the snow, then the polly. In the physics world. 

Like I said before I could be wrong, this could be one big laugh for someone smarter than myself.

Geoff


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## 1759 (Nov 16, 2000)

I don't see what all the hype is about a U-edge. At the end of last season everyone was buying one -- including me.

I used it for about three storms and wasn't impressed. I didn't see any difference between this U-edge and a rubber edge.

the only advantage over a steel edge is the noise factor. But to me only plowing for 6-8 hours at a time, the noise of a steel edge doesn't bother me at all.

I hope the u-edge works great for everyone that has one and I can say I purchased mine for a person on this forum and the transaction was a good experience.

But to me this u-edge is only a minor improvement over a rubber edge.


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## Shady Brook (Sep 8, 2001)

The beast is on! 

Whether or not it is better or worse then steel at scrapeing, I do not know. If it allows me to do circle drives without ripping the yard to shreads, or to plow a brick driveway instead of using a blower, it will be worth it all. Thanks for all the help Dino! I tried to mount it 1 7/8" below the steel edge, which left me about 3" below the rear, and it hopped pretty bad. It is now 7/8 below the front, and about 2 below the rear mold board. 

I am ready for some snow!

Jay


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

Geoff your thinking was right in line with mine. A thinner edge will get down to the surface. I figure if I got a piece of steel 1.5" thick it would wear slower as well. The way I see it there are some thngs that can not be improved on. I will stay with steel.


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

Well my thought, its based on the laws of physics. Now I am not sure if I remembered what I learned back in 83 correctly or not.

Geoff


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## BRL (Dec 21, 1999)

Making my brain smoke at this late hour. Hmmm... I'll take a crack at it.
Geoff, your post explains to me why the U-edges did not work for me in the ice storm we had last year. I had to bench 1 truck and luckily had a spare plow with steel edge for another truck, and had to rely more on subs with their steel edges. For normal snow situations (all of the other events for last season) I found that the U-edges were a great improvement over the steel. After reading your explanation here is a theory that I come up with (I don't know why they work better, they just do LOL). In the case of normal snow, the downpressure is not the factor. I think that because there is a slight flexibility to the urethane, it conforms to the asphalt better than the rigid steel, which simply glides over it? This is what gives it the squeegee effect & what makes it clear better than the steel edge maybe. I know that on lots that I've done for a few years, the steel edges always left a thin layer of snow in many spots that required a good salting to make sure I had a black & wet situation. When using the urethane in those lots there was less snow left to be salted which saved me time & money. This, plus the other benefits (absorbed much of the abuse for the trucks, less blade tripping, worked well in the few gravel & torn up asphalt situations, wear down much slower than steel, etc.) makes them a good option for me. But just like any product or method any of us are using, they are not for everyone. 
My .02


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## SlimJim Z71 (Nov 8, 2000)

I think a lot of it depends on the type of plowing you do, and when you get to it. If you get it while it's fresh on the ground... the poly sounds like the better choice. When you're on your last of 200-accounts, and things have been "compacted" a little... steel would probably be the way to go.

One of my main lots is the dealership I work for. It consists of quite a few speed bumps, garage doors (with lips), and pot-holes-a-plenty.... so the poly-edge will most likely be the "cats-meow" this winter. Those speed bumps were quite brutal last year.

Like I said earlier though... I have a spreader to deal with the tough stuff. No more abuse to my truck than I have to.


Tim


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## speedracer241 (Oct 13, 2001)

what kind of price are we lookin at for the poly edges. i just put on a new steel edge for $51 and some change.

just curious
Mark K


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

Seems to me I can always get down to pretty bare asphalt with steel. If it has been packed down then nothing may get through it. OF course this is why we sand and salt.


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## DYNA PLOW (Oct 14, 2000)

i to bought a u edge last year,problem i had last year is that i did not offer salting as a service and if we got a storm during the day and i went plowing that evening i found that the u edge could not clean down to asphalt in the compacted traffic lanes. ( i was using a snoway with the down pressure system on) 
yes they are quieter and yes they plow gravel drives and uneven sidewalks much better than a steel edge. (my opinion).
i have a new plow and i bought salter this year and am not shur if i will put a u edge on it or not.
dan


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

A few things to remember:
Nothing I repeat nothing will shave ice short of the bobcat attachment.
Hard pack is also very hard to remove.
I to at times think that the u edge doesnt do as well of a job as steel at scraping, till I leave my parking area that I just plowed, and look at the one across the street and it looks exactly the same.
I love my u edges, and I believe in them 110%. I have never overblown the benifits, and of the 100 or so I sold last year, I had less than 5 complaints. I think 95% satifaction rate speaks for itself.
Geoff I cant explain why they work like they do, but they work. Backdragging is unreal, and the fact that I dont beat the truck to he** is worth every dime of the money that they cost.
They are more pricey than steel, but when you get a product that will last 15x loner thane steel, in the long run it is more cost effective.
If anyone has ???? call me at 860-859-0739
Dino


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## DaveK (Jul 9, 2001)

GeoffD: Your formula is correct. You would have half the PSI contacting the ground (in theory). However, there are other factors to consider as well. The angle of attack can and will effect the performance. As far as the PSI, the steel edge will stay fairly close to the same PSI because it is solid and has the same area contacting the ground at all times. To be fair, the PSI of the steel would change slightly since surfaces being plowed are rarely completely flat, causing less of the edge to actually contact the ground.The U edge flexes, so as you are pushing, it curls under (for lack of a better description) and just the formost part contacts the ground giving a higher PSI than when resting.
----------------------
RB:


> I didn't see any difference between this U-edge and a rubber edge... ...But to me this u-edge is only a minor improvement over a rubber edge.


 The fact that U edges are LOTS more wear resistant than rubber is a major improvement over rubber.
----------------------
Shady Brook:


> If it allows me to do circle drives without ripping the yard to shreads, or to plow a brick driveway instead of using a blower, it will be worth it all.


 I couldn't agree more. A good edge should do more than scrape snow and slush. The fact that the U edge will NOT damage any suface is enough reason for clients to choose a contractor that uses U edges over one that uses steel. It is a great selling point to let your clients know that you use a U edge. You could plow thousands of more times over a surface and cause less damge than with a steel edge.
----------------------
BRL:


> the steel edges always left a thin layer of snow in many spots


 And those are the spots that can become hard pack or ice patches. And since the surface isn't totally flat, the steel edge will never clean those spots because it can't conform to the surface.
----------------------
To sum up my opinion, there are *always* spots that a steel edge will *never* scrape clean.. it just can't conform to the surface. On the other hand, a U edge *may not* always scrape to the surface, but won't *always* miss spots.
So there is a higher percentage of times that it works better.
And hey, it's quieter and virtually can't damage any surface.

That's my 2¢


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## SlimJim Z71 (Nov 8, 2000)

... and is a *LOT* less abusive on your truck, which makes the U-edge worth twice that amount.


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## plowjockey (Dec 3, 2000)

A good way to hedge your bet is if you have more than one truck or plow leave the steel on one. I am going to have a urethane edge on a ten foot Western HW blade so I'll let everyone know how it handles the weight and how it performs. I will still for the moment have a steel on my 7.5 foot Western. I don't see ANY edge being perfect for all applications but I do think the urethane has many more advantages than disadvantages.

Bruce

Urethane The Cutting Edge Of Cutting Edge Technology.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

WEll Dave summed up what I was going to post regarding the u edge slightly curling under, when that ocurs, you actually tranfer weight to the u edge thus helping with the scraping ability. Something steel cant do. 
We have a plow with a steel edge in case we need to use it, in three years it hasnt been used.
When dealing with hard pack and ice, a preapplication of deicer will go a long way in keeping that bond from occuring.
We had a case last season when we recieved 3/4" of ice, we preapplied magic salt, and the u edge scraped the ice off no problem. So a good overall responce plan is needed to winter weather.
No one item is the magic wand for anything, but when used with in conjunction with other tools, the u edge will work very well.
Dino


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## Rocky (Jun 18, 2001)

Dino, I've got a couple questions to get an idea what's going on with this set up. First, let me say I'm very leery of this because of the cost factor and it's to new to believe all these claims about its longevity, effectiveness, etc.. Somebody said in an earlier post that this edge will wear up to 3 times as long. I read in another post that YOU put in here that this will last 15 times as long. What gives, is it "up to 15 times longer", "3 times longer" or what? I can see from an advertising point to stress the benefits, but this sounds like boasting a little more than the regular. Also, I think I understand that you can get these in different thicknesses. Doesn't this tend to break the bolts securing them? Obviously, I know one that is 8" thick is going to last longer also. I just don't get the claim your making. Also, do you put your old cutter bar on to act as like a washer and let it wear down to that point and then replace it? Also, Slimjim, how do you know that this thing will be much less stressful on your truck? You've never even used it yet have you? Dino has done his homework and seems convinced of it's obvious benefits to him, without somebody coming in to back a product wholeheartedly before they've even used it. Use the thing and then get back us. I know I can expect an unbiased opinion.


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## SlimJim Z71 (Nov 8, 2000)

Rocky,

I can understand your point of view. No I haven't used mine yet, but common sense steps in here. If you punch a wall, it's gonna hurt your hand. If you punch a wall with a pillow strapped to your hand, it still going to hurt, but not as much.

Yes, you put the steel edge on top of it to act as a washer. When you're plowing, and come into contact with a speedbump for example, a steel edge hits the bump and does one of three things:

1. trips your plow (hopefully)
2. slams you into the steering-wheel
3. breaks something

With a U-edge, it WILL flex and absorb the impact of the speedbump. Common sense... urethane will bend MUCH easier than steel (correct me if I'm wrong on this one). The main lot I plow is littered with speedbumps, so I know what happens when you hit them with a steel edge.

Also, I've been on this board for quite a while, and have learned quite a bit from others who have been here a long time too... one of which being Dino. I trust what he says about these edges. Maybe once you have acquired more time here, you will learn more as well.

Tim


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## Mike Nelson (May 18, 2001)

Just putting my 2 cents in here.

Last year was our first year using them.
1)About the stress.Hit something (like a manhole) with a metal cutting edge and see what stress you and your truck go through.Now hit it with a u edge and there is a much softer stress to you and your truck.I feel this is the best feature about them.We kept breaking metal cutting edges on manholes a least three times a season.
2)Now how they cut ice is a different story,even if you are using a metal edge you should be pretreating to prevent the bond from occuring.
3)We have them on straight blades to V blades,from 8' to 24'.They do tend to work better on our straight blades than on our Boss V blades,but we have a great pretreating program so we don't worry about it.
4) As far as longevity that depends on how much you plow and what type of u blade you order.I believe there are 3 types of different urathane that Artic Groomer sells.
Well I wish you good luck on your decision,I know there are a lot of choices to make.Hopefully this site will make your decision easier.
Good Luck
Mike Nelson
New York Snow Pros,Inc.
Fishkill,N.Y
1-845-831-4700


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## john r (Jan 3, 2001)

What type of edge should I use to clear paver driveways? Steel or U?


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## plowjockey (Dec 3, 2000)

A contractor in my area last year picked up an account that involved paver blocks. He tried a rubber edge and was not satisfied but the urethane did the job. Steel was unacceptable to use on teh pavers.
No I may not have done the plowing btu this man did and that was what he reported to me.

Bruce


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

I plow several paver driveways with a steel blade. Most are not all pavers but have them as part of the drivway. I have not had any problem. I just go slow over the area uncase the edge was to catch. I am more afraid of salting these areas. Never know what it may do to the pavers.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

Here is the deal on the 15x longer claim.
On a 10" wide edge, you have 3 wear surfaces, each wear surface will last 3-5x longer than steel. So 5x3=15, 3x3=9 on the consevative side of things.
We have a an edge that was installed with 1.75" exposed under the steel edge, after 500 plowing hrs it still has 1 3/8" exposed. So 3/8" wear in that amount of time is very good IMO.
Lack of stress on the truck can be summed up by this statement.
We are so convinced of the impact absorbing nature of urethane, that when we get to the end of run, we dont raise the blase to get over the curb, we just angle slightly, and the urethane will ride up and over the curb, across the lawn area, and then we stop. No damage to the curb, grass, plow, or truck. Try that with a steel edge, and see what happens. We arent going 50 mph, but easily done at 3-5 mph, the speed you would normally be going if you had a curb to go over.
We installed one a subs truck, and he was tripping the edge 10-20x a storm, after the u edge, 5x in the next 5 storms. That is how much the urethane absorbs.
All edges are 1.5" thick and either 8-10" wide.The bolts dont break becuase the urethane absorbs the impact reducing the stress on the bolts as well.
The initial cost is higher than steel , but in the long run you will be way ahead in cost savings. The product in not new by any means, the application is recent but not new. It is just new to you.
Urethane has been used in high frictions areas for years, skateboard wheels, roller blade and skate wheels, bushings for suspension parts have been used for decades in urethane.
If a skateboard wheel will last for 1000's of miles with out wearing out, and it is a softer mixture than plow edges, you have your answer on how long they last.
Ask me any question, I dont over blow the claims, and only tell what I have experienced first hand.
FWIW I ddint believe the claims either, but buying made a beliver out of me.
Dino


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## DaveK (Jul 9, 2001)

> I plow several paver driveways with a steel blade. Most are not all pavers but have them as part of the drivway. I have not had any problem. I just go slow over the area uncase the edge was to catch. I am more afraid of salting these areas. Never know what it may do to the pavers.


Glass is more resistant to scratches than pavers. (Don't take my word for it, try it. Take a flat head screwdriver and with the corner, scrape a drinking glass. Now do the same to a paver. Heck, do it to asphalt or concrete.)

And you certainly wouldn't use a steel edge for a windshield wiper would you?

Paver driveways are a huge investment. I don't think your clients would like you using steel edges if they knew about Urethane. And in the near future, they *will* know. Your competition will gladly tell them. I know I do.

It isn't just about what scrapes hard packed snow and/or ice better. It's about less damage to the surface of your clients drive, less damage to your plow, less stress on your truck, less noise at 3am when your residential clients are sleeping....

As far as salt, pavers are made from compressed concrete and have a compression strength of 8,500 P.S.I. This makes them very dense with less than 5% absorption, making the pavers impervious to salting and freeze-thaw cycle.

Did I ever mention that I sold pavers for over 4 years? I could recite all the colors from 3 different manufacturers in my sleep.


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

Let them tell them. I have been plowing for a good amount of years. If they ask me I will tell them that I don't use them and I will explain why. If they want to go with another guy then so be it. Maybe I am a stubborn man. You can explain all you want but it still does not make sense in some ways. I feel a plow should trip and not absorb the blows. I want my drivers to know where objects are. Not just go flying down the drive. It all sounds like a sales pitch to me. High strength steel edges are a proven concept. States and Towns use them as do plowmakers. If there was a better option I think thy would have picked it up by now.


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## Rocky (Jun 18, 2001)

Dino, I can't really grasp your concept of there being 3 wear edges etc.. Where do you come up with 3X. What I'm grasping at is you're trying to tell me you've bolted on a triangular piece of urethane and I'm sure that isn't the case. Please explain this in a little more detail.


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

How will something that thick cut through any snow. sounds more like a sled then a edge.


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## DaveK (Jul 9, 2001)

> I feel a plow should trip and not absorb the blows.


 That's the point, the edge absorbs the blow, not the plow.



> High strength steel edges are a proven concept.


 Well, they didn't have anything better 50 years ago.



> States and Towns use them as do plowmakers. If there was a better option I think thy would have picked it up by now.


 Some states, some counties and some towns DO use them, as well as many major airports.


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

NO and I mean no Town around me uses them and anyone who has driven down 84 at night in the snow nows that the State DOT in CT uses steel. You can see the sparks off the bottom of the plow.


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

Ok, I know these edges have there advantages.

As for them "saving" the truck. I think at some point in time the truck is going to have to take some abuse. With all these modern trucks, it isn't hard to get an F 350 xlt confused with a crown vic. 

However I believe at some point in time, the trucks need to take abuse, after all they are "work" trucks.

Geoff

Just IMO


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## SlimJim Z71 (Nov 8, 2000)

Geoff,

I agree with you to a point, but at anywhere from $20K to $40K for a new truck, I'm not about to go out and "abuse" my truck any more than I need to. I am going to plow. If there's something I can do to make things easier... I'll do it.

Tim


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## DYNA PLOW (Oct 14, 2000)

Dino hit the nail on the head when he said......pretreating works the best for keeping a bond forming between the asphalt and snow or ice then the u edge will clean it right up.
i am aware that this was my downfall last year when using the edge, but it shur worked great on uneven sidwalks and gravel drives!!
dan


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

The urethane is 1.5" thick and 10" wide, by as long as your plow. The threee wear surfaces come from the fact that you mount the edge with 2" below the moldboard, and then continue to drop the edge down into new holes as the edge wears up. That will give you three edges on a 10" wide blade. And 2 edges on a 8" wide edge, and only 1 edge on a 6" wide edge.(as Tim will find out LOL)
As far as you guys not wanting to try it, or not believing that the edge will work as advertised, then your loss.
Geoff I have repeatedly offered a free edge to try, if you dont like it send it back. If it works as advertised, then pay my cost only.
However since that isnt even good enough for you, then to bad, keep bending plows,ripping curbs, sod , and tearing up trucks.
We are all allowed our opinions, but just because you dont understand the priciples behind a product dont keep maming statements that it wont work no way no how. I will put my money where my mouth is, if anyone wants to test me out.
The CT DOT is a bunch of people that are still in the 50's as far as plowing tech goes. So dont go by their equipment. Also they repave their roads every 5 yrs, so pavment damage isnt a concern.
From NJ south most DOT's and munipals use rubber or urethane.
At airports, they have serated runways, and FAA mandates that a non abrasive edge be used. Urethane in the edge of choice, because it works, and lasts a long time.
For those that have to have steel, mount a new steel edge in front of the u edge, the u edge will carry weight of the plow, and the steel will do all the "cutting" that you want it to. Plus you still have your sparks, sound,and ability to damage whatever you see fit.
Dino


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

I have never said these edges (urethane) will not work.

I was just thinking in the lines of physics. After someone explained how they flexed, and how that increased the pressure, I understood how they could work better. 

As for my comment about saving the trucks. Your right they (edges) would take some of the impact. All I ment by that comment, is that how far do you go to baby a truck. I mean at some point in time the truck is going to have to earn it's keep. 

Here is why I won't go with Urethane.

1. The plows I use have trip edges, not full trip.

From what I have heard the angle of attack of Fisher and Diamonds do not work well with Urethane.

2. I have a Good Stock of steel edges still.

3. The Start up and Conversion cost, would be big money, compared to steel.

4. The added Install time, of Urethane adds to my overhead cost. 

My Thoughts on the product.

I am sure it works, they way people say it does. I am in no means bashing the product. However I would like to think I could voice my thoughts on how I thoughts, with out pissing off everyone. About how a steel edge had more pressure, which I was wrong about. If you are useing the product, and it works well for you congrats, I am glad it is.

I know Urethane works well with snoway plows. For the reason that a standard Highway T1 edge can not be used with out having to put different holes in. So i you figure in the time it takes to burn holes in an edge, and install it. Yes your right, Urethane will be quicker, a lot easier to drill a polly type material, than to burn a hole in steel. So for those brands of plows Urethane is a big saver. Seeing that the only edge you can buy for a Snowway is from a snowway dealer, at 100 dollars, and it doesn't last verry long (the edge doesn't have much wear, and is a T 3 edge). Or spend 200 on a urethane, which last longer. 

I guess I have once again stirred the pot, however I thought we could debate the topic.

Geoff

And Dino, on a Side note, no bent plows, yet. However we did take up some lawn. haa hee


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## DYNA PLOW (Oct 14, 2000)

Geoff, i'm not pissed off ...anyone else?
keep stirring Geoff, things cool down if you keep stirring after awhile. ( ie. soup)
lets see if we can get this baby to 4 pages.
dan


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## Rocky (Jun 18, 2001)

I understand a little better now although I'm not completely sure where the 3rd edge comes into play and what it's effectiveness will be with bolt holes drilled in it. If I got a 10" piece 8' long I would have to drill holes in it about 3"? up to attach it to the plow, correct? Then, after (hopefully) a few years I'd want to flip it over because I don't want an uneven edge when it gets to the bolt holes and drill new holes for my 2nd edge. Then what do you do? I've got bolt holes through both sides of the u edge and am going to obviously have bolt holes to contend with. Also, what happens on the moldboard with this big flap of urethane there when it's new with 7" or so just laying against it and salt/water getting behind it and flexing around. That would be hard to wash out after a storm and would eat that plow up in no time without lots of dismantling and washing I would think. I'd probably stick with an 8" in this case for the reasons I've stated unless you can explain the benefits of a 10" better. What is the cost for these at 8' lengths (6,8,10") and also shipping (ballpark) if you know.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

Rocky give me a call. I can better explain the 3 edges verbally, rather than on the forum. But to sum up, you only have to drill one set of holes.
Pricing differs from different distributors, but we sell at 35.00 a running foot for 8" wide and 40.00 a running foot for 10" wide.
Shipping from NH will be under 50.00.
Geoff I am not ticked off at all, I am just tired of the same old debates.
If you want a plow to try it on, it should be your 10' plows doing roads. That is where the edge will really shine.
Trust me, with the edge its not like you are plowing marshmellow fluff, you still get bounces scrapes and rattles, and yes the edge even trips, its just all of these are greatly reduced. But then again I drive Chevies, so I need to baby them as much as possible anyway.LOL
Hey we are in the middle of a small electrical utility job, I was thinking of you all day.
Dino
860-859-0739


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

Right now, I am useing Carbide Edges on my big plows. They last a long time, however they are not as cheap as the regular the highway edges. 

Not sure how Urethane stacks up against Carbide in terms of hours of service. 

Geoff


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## DaveK (Jul 9, 2001)

Plowking, Geoff mentioned the angle of attack on fisher and diamond. Is that a valid statement? I would think that being on more of an angle (in relation to vertical) would make it work better. It would be less apt to "curl under" Or is my thinking wrong?

I hope nobody is getting pissed off, this thread is just getting good.  They say two minds are better than one. And we have quite a few intelligent people in this thread. We'll just call it market research. MPT should be paying us to do this study.


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## SlimJim Z71 (Nov 8, 2000)

Dave,

Having not used mine yet, I'm just guessing here. I would think that the greater the angle away from verticle AT FIRST would be a little bumpy. Once it wore in, I think it would be smooth sailing.

Dino,

One more comment like that about Chevy's, and we're gonna have to beat you with some urethane!!! LOL!!!

Tim


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## 2401 (Feb 3, 2001)

Tim - we'll cut Dino a little slack for the Chevy comment (at least this time!  ) : when I was at the BBQ I saw that  "Jaws" decal on his Chevy's toolbox. Dino knows the one I mean...........


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## plowjockey (Dec 3, 2000)

Tim
One way to help stop the original hopping you refer to would be to back drag it a few times on dry pavement. This will help pre-start the angle of the bottom ahead of time.

Bruce


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

DaveK - MPT may not be paying us, but you can bet they're paying attention here.


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

Dino 

I agree with you that the DOT is beind the times in some areas. They are also known for wasting money. I realize that they replow roads often and that is not the case on most stuff that we plow. However I think that most of you will admit that your areas do not see the traffic that the highways do. The same is true for airports. They see a different type of traffic then small roads, lots and drives. Heavy traffic will often cause melting of snow with less plowing necessary. Different types of melters will also affect how snow accumulates. 

I think we need to compare apples to apples. For small road, lots and drives that see little traffic and where most customers do not want to drop huge amounts on melting agents the drive will need to be plowed of snow. I have not used the U edges and maybe I am behind. However, I am able to keep my lots clear without removing curbs and speedbumps. Maybe Urethane would work just as well, but I cannot see a reason to switch when the product I am using does just as well. 

I would be more than happy to get more info on these edges. If the guarantee that is given to Geoff extends to others I would even try one out. I just cannot justify the expense for something that from what I have heard will do the same job as I accomplish now.


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

DaveK, the Diamond and Fisher Snowplows have a trip edge. This trip edge is more of a tri-angle then the end of a full trip blade. There for a it isn't as steep, so it is less likely to dig in. When you add the thicker, urathane edge, it makes the angle of attack even less less product (I think, I might be wrong). 

I thought I remember Dino, writing a post about how the trip edge plows were not performing as well as the full trip blades for that reason.


On another note.

I think anytime you try to change anyones mind you are going to get a debate like this. I could start the sand and salt mix, vs salt debate, and I bet we get just as many post.

Geoff


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

Geoff I agree I think it would not work as well. I especially think backdragging would suffer more (already poor with Fisher IMO). 

I do not see anything wrong with this discussion. I have learned a few things. It gives everyone a chance to explore new ideas and offer help.


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## DaveK (Jul 9, 2001)

I think it was Geoff (I can't find which page) said someting like "if they were that good, the plow manufacturers would be using them." Well, Fisher does..... kinda.

The light duty plows use a "poly" edge. Not sure if it is polyurethane or not (website doesn't say) And that blade does have the trip edge. So I would guess that if it works on that trip edge, it "should" work on the rest.

I know the oposing side of this debate will be quick to mention that it is only on the "homeowner" or "toy" plows, but..... they do use one on the trip edge. Maybe it isn't poly*urethane*, or maybe a "harder" polyurethane. If anyone knows more about Fisher's "poly" edge, please share with us.


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

Dave,

That was CT, that said if they were that good plow manufactures would be using.

I guess:

The fisher polly edge, will wear out in no time flat. It is nothing like the Urethane edge, from what I have read.

Geoff


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## BRL (Dec 21, 1999)

I used urethane on a Fisher with trip edge, and a Meyer full trip plow. From my experience I will say the comment from Tim was true (with the Meyer also). 
"Dave, 

Having not used mine yet, I'm just guessing here. I would think that the greater the angle away from verticle AT FIRST would be a little bumpy. Once it wore in, I think it would be smooth sailing. "

The fix for this was exactly what Bruce said: 
"Tim 
One way to help stop the original hopping you refer to would be to back drag it a few times on dry pavement. This will help pre-start the angle of the bottom ahead of time."

The only problem with what Bruce said is that the U-edges wear sooo slowly that it took a little while for the that initial wear in and for the plows to run smoothly. After they wore in a little, there was no real performance difference between both trip styles. The exception to that comment is hard pack or ice conditions, about which I've already posted. Salting with the storm as discussed is a must. In the ice storm I mentioned, we received almost 2" of ice & snow accumulation over a 36 hour period. All of the lots had been salted heavily 3-4 times during that period, & when the storm finally changed to all snow we still had over a 1\2 inch of ice to push off of the lots. In that case I had to bench the Urethane Fisher plow even though it wasn't solid ice from all of the salting. I was able to push a lot of the ice with the Meyer, however, since the steel plows were doing better, and because I had a spare steel Meyer, I went with the steel to finish up that one. 

As far as the plow manufacturers using Urethane, don't they sell replacement steel edges for their plows? Why would they sell an edge that they won't make as much profit on because of the lost parts sales (not to mention the initial higher cost to install them), due to them being a 3rd party product & because they last a lot longer than the steel? I wouldn't use it if I were them either. 

Whew!
My .02 again LOL.


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## Rocky (Jun 18, 2001)

Dino, Sounds good to me. It sounds like the perfect fix for my problem with this new craze of pavers on alot of my driveways. I don't know as I'll need any this year as both of my bars are fairly new. Maybe I'll stop out your way next summer. I have a landscaper friend in Franklin I always stop out to see. Maybe we'll go to a Navigators game together and you can give us the lowdown there!!


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

I bought a Fisher with a poly edge and immediately put a nice steel edge on it. This helped in two ways. First the poly edge was worthless second added some weight to the blade which improved plowing.


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## Alan (Mar 2, 2000)

First, the stuff the plow makers use for "plastic" edges is UHMW, Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene, a whole different breed of cat. Hard, brittle and doesn't wear for crap.

Second, until you've used Urethane the best you can do is spout off with a WAG (Wild A$$ed Guess) about how well it performs. I'm not quite as enthusiastic about it as Dino is, but I ran one last winter as a test. From now on I'm running it on all my plows and I'm even getting some inquiries about it from other operators. Might even manage to sell a few this winter.

Only situation I didn't run into last year was icing. Other than that, I definately saw longer life, less collateral damage, and less pounding transferred to the truck. From the wear I was getting I fully expect to see enough life to completely offset the initial cost vs steel. Everything else will be a benefit above and beyond the direct cost of the edge.

I'm now beveling the edges to start the wear in process. Seems to help overcome the slight tendency for them to chatter a bit for the first few hours until they get worn in.


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## DYNA PLOW (Oct 14, 2000)

well put Alan,my thoughts exactly. however let us know what your thoughts are this year on the edge when you use it after an ice event...as i have stated in prior posts i have learned the hard way that you must preapplicate before the storm for the u edge to work effectivly. i have some hi traffic accounts that pack the snow on the driving lanes and noticed last year that the u edge did not scrape this up as the steel edge did in the past.
if i keep learning a few things each year by the time i die i should? be smart.
dan


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## BRL (Dec 21, 1999)

The Urethane edge weighed about as much, or more than the worn steel edge, plus you use the old steel edge as a washer over the U-edge. So the weight is actually more (which helps for plowing, might not be good for the front end of the truck though). Like Alan said, the edges that are coming from Fisher are not polyurethane, and that material sounds like it may be worse than using the rubber edges.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

The plow makers are harder to convince of changing their minds than old Yankees. Also they are not going to install an edge that will last 10-15x longer than the steel edge that they can make money on.
Even with carbide edges, the u edges are outlasting them as well.
As far as backdragging goes, all brands of plows work better backdragging with u edges than with steel.
I had one sub running a u edge last season on a fisher and it worked well, I have a friend using an EZV and it also worked well for him. However I think the more vertical the application the better the ability to scrape, and since alot of the debate centers around this item, I would caution users with trip edge plows about this. However I have 2 trip edge v plows, and I am very happy with the u edge performance.
Rocky, who is the landscaper in Franklin, that is just one town over from me? And I would be happy to go to a game with you.
Dino


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## Rocky (Jun 18, 2001)

Dino, These edges sound better all the time. My buddies name is Tony Frattianni. Nice Italian boy!! He lives off Pleasure Hill Road. Maybe you know him, he's been in the biz a long time.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

I dont know him, but I have a very good friend that lives on that road, I will ask if he knows Tony. Small world tho.
Dino


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## Doc L. (Dec 24, 2000)

Dino, His company is called Sentinel Farm Landscaping, you can see his house from down by the gas?? company off Rte. 32. He's got 90 acres up there. His property goes over to the mushroom factory. Very smart businessman and nice guy to know.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

Funny I have never heard of him. I know Steve Bousquet who owns American Landscaping acroos the street from that area. This past season he also ran a nursery there.
There is a small farm stand and Shire Corp in that area, but I dont recall a landscape firm. I also wonder what area he works in, as I have never seen his trucks in town.
I will ask my buddy Harley Hyde and see what he knows, he seems to know everybody.
Dino


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## Rocky (Jun 18, 2001)

Tony owns a farm type place down there, and you can't see his stuff because he's hidden from the main road. He usually works up towards Willimantic, Storrs & Coventry areas. Jeez, I doubt you'd see many of his trucks all lettered up as I don't think he's done that in years. He does very little plowing, mostly dump trucks and tractors, hydroseeding and that type of stuff. He's about a 1/4 mile down Pleasure Hill on the left, (big gate at the foot of the hill with a pond just before it, with a long driveway). I know if you got to Uncas?? Gas (off Rte. 32) and looked up on the hill you'd see his house from there. He just built another one right next to it. Anyway, I'll make a point of dragging you guys to a game when I get out there and we can scout out who Roger Clemen's replacement will be for George Steinbrenner after a few brewskis. GO YANKEES!!! Good games the last couple days, huh?


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

I spoke with my buddy Harley, and he knows Tony. It seems Harleys brother used to run a farm near Tony's place, and thats when they met.He said that Tony is kind of a niche market guy, but that he does very well. Worked some at the Mohegan casino when they first opened. Harley actually lives right near the ball park. And yes Uncas gas is the correct name over on 32.
Yes the games have been great, just wish they started a little earlier. I am not a big Yankees fan, but you gotta respect their never say die attitude.
Dino


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## plowjockey (Dec 3, 2000)

Yankees are getting their butts kicked right now @#$%^ it. 
I just installed my ten foot urethane edge today (with some valuable info from Dino I might add) and it went on just like clockwork. When I got done I went around my little street with it down and on basically dry pavement and was amazed with how quiet it is. And even the wet leaves on the street plowed up out of the way.
Can't wait for snow now to see how good this thing really is.

Bruce


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## SlimJim Z71 (Nov 8, 2000)

ROFL.....


Now THAT'S dedication!!! No snow in sight, and you're out there plowing leaves! I shouldn't laugh though... I'll probably do the same thing once I get mine on. Just out of curiosity, what type/size drill bit did you use to drill the holes?

Tim


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

Tim
If you have 1/2" botls use a 9/16" paddle/butterfly bit. That way you have a little room to get the bolt through.
Dino


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## plowjockey (Dec 3, 2000)

Cut me a break, Tim. Can't you see I'm in full blown withdrawls. LOL 
Really though I just had to see if it really was that quiet and it sure enough is. 
Like Dino said I used a spade bit and was very careful since my edge is 2" thick so as not to drill off center or at an angle. I marked my distance from the bottom edge in several places along the length and then snapped a chalk line. After that I laid the original steel edge on it making sure that my bolt holes were on center and then marked them with a Sharpie. Everything went smooth as silk and other than the thing being heavy by myself it went quite well. Good luck with mounting your edge.

Bruce


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