# Veteran trying to begin a plow company



## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

I am 12 year active duty service army veteran trying to get into the snow removal and lawn service businesses. I have read many forums and do have some limited plowing experience in the military. I know it isn't easy and I have a ton to learn. I am looking for a good plow truck to start out with would like to subcontract some work to learn the business. How do I find plow guys from my area on here? I would like to find one in my area who could use a subcontractor. Also I found a salvaged title f250 06 with 44k miles on it. It was salvaged due to being stolen in Chicagoland area and it was gutted empty in the interior. Motor was left intact. Drove nice but I'm scared to put 13 grand into a salvaged titled truck plus the cost of a plow. I would rather invest less into something still reliable though.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Salvage title vehicles are 50 cents on a dollar put back together. I'm sure it drove okay it was stripped not wrecked. If your from the Chicago area should not be to hard to find somebody to sub for. Limited experience could be a issue.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

It would be easier to help you if you posted where you live. Do you intend to do this while still on active duty? I agree with Fred above on the buying a salvage truck due to it being stripped. As long as that's all they did.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

SFCarmyvet said:


> I am 12 year active duty service army veteran trying to get into the snow removal and lawn service businesses. I have read many forums and do have some limited plowing experience in the military. I know it isn't easy and I have a ton to learn. I am looking for a good plow truck to start out with would like to subcontract some work to learn the business. How do I find plow guys from my area on here? I would like to find one in my area who could use a subcontractor. Also I found a salvaged title f250 06 with 44k miles on it. It was salvaged due to being stolen in Chicagoland area and it was gutted empty in the interior. Motor was left intact. Drove nice but I'm scared to put 13 grand into a salvaged titled truck plus the cost of a plow. I would rather invest less into something still reliable though.


Welcome.....
Best thing to do is add your location to your avatar, this will help others help you when is comes to rates in your area.
There's a forum dedicated to Networking http://www.plowsite.com/forums/networking.27/ and this would be a decent place to start. You can also look through the Weather forums for your area too, sometimes guys post there looking of subs too.
Salvage titles can be a hassle when it comes to registering the vehicle in a different state, you may have to go through "due process" or inspection to get it titled. Assuming you're looking for a work truck it may be worth while and a much cheaper way to get into business. This is something you need to figure oot.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

FredG said:


> Salvage title vehicles are 50 cents on a dollar put back together. I'm sure it drove okay it was stripped not wrecked. If your from the Chicago area should not be to hard to find somebody to sub for. Limited experience could be a issue.


I am living out in granger Indiana now. Active duty out here now. Planning on starting out learning and small and using my leave days for big storms.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

BUFF said:


> Welcome.....
> Best thing to do is add your location to your avatar, this will help others help you when is comes to rates in your area.
> There's a forum dedicated to Networking http://www.plowsite.com/forums/networking.27/ and this would be a decent place to start. You can also look through the Weather forums for your area too, sometimes guys post there looking of subs too.
> Salvage titles can be a hassle when it comes to registering the vehicle in a different state, you may have to go through "due process" or inspection to get it titled. Assuming you're looking for a work truck it may be worth while and a much cheaper way to get into business. This is something you need to figure oot.


Okay thanks I added my location to my avatar!


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Salvage titled vehicles are not a bad way to go, I bought one a few years ago and still have it today. The only problem I can see with them (at least here) is the bank will not loan money toward one so that could make it hard to sell. And yes your location would be helpful.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

FredG said:


> Salvage title vehicles are 50 cents on a dollar put back together. I'm sure it drove okay it was stripped not wrecked. If your from the Chicago area should not be to hard to find somebody to sub for. Limited experience could be a issue.


Well one of my military occupational specialties is 88H cargo specialist so I moved Kelmar containers 30k lbs 40 ft and 20 ft containers. Drove 12k and 4K all Terrian forklifts. Moved the snow in our own lots. I just have no personal business experience in it. I have a bachelors degree in business and my 12 years in the military. Lol, the military experience is more useful to me than the degree I am sure. My goal is to slowly start a business that can eventually enable me to get out and stop moving my family all the time.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Salvage titled vehicles are not a bad way to go, I bought one a few years ago and still have it today. The only problem I can see with them (at least here) is the bank will not loan money toward one so that could make it hard to sell. And yes your location would be helpful.


I didn't even realize the bank won't loan on them. I just had assumed they would since I looked at it in a dealers lot.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

SFCarmyvet said:


> I didn't even realize the bank won't loan on them. I just had assumed they would since I looked at it in a dealers lot.


Was the dealer an independent, if so they may do their of financing at a higher rate.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Salvage titled vehicles are not a bad way to go, I bought one a few years ago and still have it today. The only problem I can see with them (at least here) is the bank will not loan money toward one so that could make it hard to sell. And yes your location would be helpful.


Yes you would not be able to resale if someone needs financing. As long has they were not twisted, the frame. They can still make a nice vehicle. Once the air bags activate and with the damage they usually become salvage.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

BUFF said:


> Was the dealer an independent, if so they may do their of financing at a higher rate.


No they mentioned a credit union but I wouldn't want to get in debt starting out with a high interest rate. I'd rather find something under 10 grand.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SFCarmyvet said:


> Well one of my military occupational specialties is 88H cargo specialist so I moved Kelmar containers 30k lbs 40 ft and 20 ft containers. Drove 12k and 4K all Terrian forklifts. Moved the snow in our own lots. I just have no personal business experience in it. I have a bachelors degree in business and my 12 years in the military. Lol, the military experience is more useful to me than the degree I am sure. My goal is to slowly start a business that can eventually enable me to get out and stop moving my family all the time.


With your experience with the heavy equipment and lot plowing with the military you should be OK. Good Luck.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

FredG said:


> With your experience with the heavy equipment and lot plowing with the military you should be OK. Good Luck.


Thanks, I think finding the right truck and starting out is just my first hurdle.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Whats the military auctioning off. I know guys bought trucks and hummers.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SFCarmyvet said:


> I didn't even realize the bank won't loan on them. I just had assumed they would since I looked at it in a dealers lot.


Being it's a 06 this could be a high interest loan. This had to be just a small used car dealer. Never heard of a franchise dealer selling a salvage vehicle.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

FredG said:


> Whats the military auctioning off. I know guys bought trucks and hummers.


I have heard about the military auctioning before from the news but never heard when or where. We do not get any special memos at work for that lol. You probably know more than me. I'll do some googling and ask some of the guys at work if they know.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

FredG said:


> Being it's a 06 this could be a high interest loan. This had to be just a small used car dealer. Never heard of a franchise dealer selling a salvage vehicle.


Yes small lot


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

FredG said:


> Whats the military auctioning off. I know guys bought trucks and hummers.


Maybe DRMO auctions


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SFCarmyvet said:


> Yes small lot


Be careful around those guys. They might be able to get you financed under the secondary finance company's they use. It drove good offer them $7500.00 and work your way up $500.00 at a time till you get to 9k see what they want to do. Have the cash check something if you want it. Okay so it had no impact still a salvage title.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

FredG said:


> Be careful around those guys. They might be able to get you financed under the secondary finance company's they use. It drove good offer them $7500.00 and work your way up $500.00 at a time till you get to 9k see what they want to do. Have the cash check something if you want it. Okay so it had no impact still a salvage title.


They were asking 12700, I told them I would pay no more than 10 and they said they would take no less than 12 so I said okay have a good day. I found some guys in my area from searching in the forums. I emailed them. I seen there were some really experienced guys out here where I am over the past few years looking for subcontracting work. I guess it is more competitive than I thought it would be!


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SFCarmyvet said:


> They were asking 12700, I told them I would pay no more than 10 and they said they would take no less than 12 so I said okay have a good day. I found some guys in my area from searching in the forums. I emailed them. I seen there were some really experienced guys out here where I am over the past few years looking for subcontracting work. I guess it is more competitive than I thought it would be!


Get the check or cash and wave it in his face and tell him you seen similar trucks competitively price to his truck with no salvage title. Tell them your buying a truck today with that 10K and you know somebody will sell you one. I bet he the dealer come out good at 10K. Salesman must be weak, Don't be surprised if he took your PH# number and tells you to come and get it.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

FredG said:


> Get the check or cash and wave it in his face and tell him you seen similar trucks competitively price to his truck with no salvage title. Tell them your buying a truck today with that 10K and you know somebody will sell you one. I bet he the dealer come out good at 10K. Salesman must be weak, Don't be surprised if he took your PH# number and tells you to come and get it.


Ok thanks


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

First off, thank you for your service.

I too am on the truck hunt. What Fred suggested with have a check in hand is exactly what we did with my wife's car years back. They wanted $16k. We found out it was a repo, they dropped the price dramatically to I think $12k. She went to our bank and they would only give her a loan for that specific car for $10.5k. She had no trade in due to her old car being totaled. She walked in the dealer, showed them the check and after about an hour of back and forth and walking out twice (they caught us at the door both times) they settled taxes, fees, and everything for $10.5k.

I have also helped a few other people get cars and I have been able to convince them to "walk" and they dealer settles for thousands off the asking price. HOWEVER, what I've found out with trucks in they are in such high demand dealers don't care if you walk out. Think about it, there are a ton of different models of cars out there, but only 3 different 3/4 ton trucks. I'm still looking, but I'm sure I'll find that right deal. So far in my negotiations I have only been able to get 2 dealers to come down more than $1k off the asking price, and that was all they would do. I walked and haven't even received a phone call from either of those dealers.

You just have to wait for your deal. If you can get them to come down great, if not find something else. I will tell you, take a look at trucks in your price range first. You might find that salvage title is the best deal even for a little more than you thought. And to be honest, depending on how long you plan to keep it, it might not matter that someone can't get a loan when you resell it. It may only be worth $5k or something.

Best of luck to you!


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Trucks been in high demand for at least 20 years I can remember. Never the less you have to find that deal, You catch a Dealer at the end of the month a short deal is better than no deal. Good luck to both of you guys.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

JMHConstruction said:


> First off, thank you for your service.
> 
> I too am on the truck hunt. What Fred suggested with have a check in hand is exactly what we did with my wife's car years back. They wanted $16k. We found out it was a repo, they dropped the price dramatically to I think $12k. She went to our bank and they would only give her a loan for that specific car for $10.5k. She had no trade in due to her old car being totaled. She walked in the dealer, showed them the check and after about an hour of back and forth and walking out twice (they caught us at the door both times) they settled taxes, fees, and everything for $10.5k.
> 
> ...


I am thinking about getting a Brand new F250 2016 model and using it as my daily vehicle too since I don't drive too far for personal use. Then i am using it for dual purpose, more money's worth maybe, and I have a warranty and less problems. How many miles per year do you all put on your trucks a year? Any input or opinions would be gladly taken.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

FredG said:


> Trucks been in high demand for at least 20 years I can remember. Never the less you have to find that deal, You catch a Dealer at the end of the month a short deal is better than no deal. Good luck to both of you guys.


What do you think about a buying brand new Fred?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SFCarmyvet said:


> What do you think about a buying brand new Fred?


I don't buy new trucks. 1998 was the last new one I bought. I don't want to bash the idea tho. The help wrecks them in my situation but I do buy personal vehicles new. You are trying to start a new business. If you think you can handle the obligation with not a lot of help from the business to start anyways maybe.

The Biz will work for you given enough time. JMO I think I would start slow with used. On used a carfax is a good place to start. But I also like to speak with the former owner because of the tricks these dealers play.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

$10k to $40k is a big jump. If you can swing the payments, what's nice about buying new is you know how all the maintenance has been kept, and the warranty is nice. I personally can't do new, but if I could do new or close to new and get the warranty I think I would. Also if you can live with regular cab (I'd stick with long bed for a spreader) you can save money there too.


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## flips87chevy (Oct 7, 2013)

I was in the market for a new work truck a couple months ago. I went with a new 2016 F250. It's the first truck I've ever gotten brand new and I haven't regretted it for a second. that being said, I started out with a used truck.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

If ya rose your budget to like 18000.00 you will find a nice truck that is a manageable payment.


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## 98Chevy2500 (Nov 27, 2005)

Snow is a bonus, sometimes you get it, sometimes not. I'd rather not want to rely on it make a brand new truck payment. You can make a lot of repairs for the difference of new vs. used. New trucks break down just as often, sometimes more often. 

I've purchased three new trucks in the last couple years. They have each been back in the shop more times than the five remaining old trucks combined....


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

SFCarmyvet said:


> I am 12 year active duty service army veteran trying to get into the snow removal and lawn service businesses. I have read many forums and do have some limited plowing experience in the military. I know it isn't easy and I have a ton to learn. I am looking for a good plow truck to start out with would like to subcontract some work to learn the business. How do I find plow guys from my area on here? I would like to find one in my area who could use a subcontractor. Also I found a salvaged title f250 06 with 44k miles on it. It was salvaged due to being stolen in Chicagoland area and it was gutted empty in the interior. Motor was left intact. Drove nice but I'm scared to put 13 grand into a salvaged titled truck plus the cost of a plow. I would rather invest less into something still reliable though.


Are you looking to get into residential or commercial plowing?

Big difference between the two and what kind of truck you want use.

If commercial Forget about the f250 and go for a f350. 
You can pick a nice older diesel for that price.

If your doing resi. then the f250 would be fine.

think about adding a sander to offer that option for sanding, a lot to choose, from tail bed to full size -(I started with a tail bed and quickly went to full size, got tired of climbing into the back of the truck to load the hopper)

Shoot me a email and I will send you some bid proposal sheets and contracts I use for commercial and Resi., along with a few other things that help -(like a hold harmless for plowing etc...)

And lastly check out Sima, you can get some good information from them also.


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## flips87chevy (Oct 7, 2013)

Are you mechanically inclined? do you have space/tools/time to work on a used truck? Does your post have an auto hobby shop you could use? If you get a used truck your going to have to do some wrenching at some point.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

flips87chevy said:


> Are you mechanically inclined? do you have space/tools/time to work on a used truck? Does your post have an auto hobby shop you could use? If you get a used truck your going to have to do some wrenching at some point.


X2..............


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

New is okay if you can use it as a daily driver, Grocery geter. Do you need something that can accommodate a family? I don't know if this was mentioned but you will need back up to. You will have to find somebody that can handle your route in case of issues, Break downs etc. Should be some body starting out to that would have the time to watch your back. Make a arrangement with somebody that plows, He's got your back and you have his. Plenty of 1 truck plow guys out there. A hustling sole operator can come out ok.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Thumbs Upall the above>
my vote is for a 3-5 year old used 2500/3500 truck to start with.
that you can wrench on yourself.

Have you thought of what you will do if your truck breaks down?
who will plow your route?

subcontracting is a good idea, but you will need to 
register your business, like a LLC, then price out commercial insurance. make sure your covered for snow removal.

either route you go, drives or lots you will need to do the above.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

JMHConstruction said:


> $10k to $40k is a big jump. If you can swing the payments, what's nice about buying new is you know how all the maintenance has been kept, and the warranty is nice. I personally can't do new, but if I could do new or close to new and get the warranty I think I would. Also if you can live with regular cab (I'd stick with long bed for a spreader) you can save money there too.





flips87chevy said:


> Are you mechanically inclined? do you have space/tools/time to work on a used truck? Does your post have an auto hobby shop you could use? If you get a used truck your going to have to do some wrenching at some point.


Yeah, I use the motor pool at work whenever I change my oil or breaks so I would take the truck there to do repairs. I have never had a Ford though and I have read their different under the hood lol.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

FredG said:


> New is okay if you can use it as a daily driver, Grocery geter. Do you need something that can accommodate a family? I don't know if this was mentioned but you will need back up to. You will have to find somebody that can handle your route in case of issues, Break downs etc. Should be some body starting out to that would have the time to watch your back. Make a arrangement with somebody that plows, He's got your back and you have his. Plenty of 1 truck plow guys out there. A hustling sole operator can come out ok.


Yeah the wife has a car as well that the kids all fit into.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

SnoFarmer said:


> Thumbs Upall the above>
> my vote is for a 3-5 year old used 2500/3500 truck to start with.
> that you can wrench on yourself.
> 
> ...


Thanks you guys are great I appreciate all the feedback.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SFCarmyvet said:


> Yeah the wife has a car as well that the kids all fit into.


Reg. cab work truck should work fine then,


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SFCarmyvet said:


> Yeah, I use the motor pool at work whenever I change my oil or breaks so I would take the truck there to do repairs. I have never had a Ford though and I have read their different under the hood lol.


They are a little different, You can handle it tho. No worries.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

In the $20-30k range, you should be able to find a basic work truck, regular cab long bed with low miles are only a few years old, still under warranty. Make sure to ask about any military discounts. You might be able to get a new one (basic package w/ no frills) with 0% interest and a discount for less money, after you add intrest, than buying used. Remember they are also releasing 2017, so 2016 will probably already have discounts.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JMHConstruction said:


> In the $20-30k range, you should be able to find a basic work truck, regular cab long bed with low miles are only a few years old, still under warranty. Make sure to ask about any military discounts. You might be able to get a new one (basic package w/ no frills) with 0% interest and a discount for less money, after you add intrest, than buying used. Remember they are also releasing 2017, so 2016 will probably already have discounts.


0% is almost like paying cash to me. I think it's like $16.57 per thousand borrowed in payment. Not bad. Your military service could get you some work to. Meaning Government properties if not leased. Most are leased around here and Owner gets some :terribletowel:to plow it.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

Thanks for everyone's help in getting me started and those who still continue to help. This is my business and website veteranssnowandlawn.com If you guys want to check it out, go for it and just look or private message me if you think I should change anything. Or if you just plain do not like it. 

All of you have been great guys, I wish you the best of luck this plowing season, you deserve it!


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SFCarmyvet said:


> Thanks for everyone's help in getting me started and those who still continue to help. This is my business and website veteranssnowandlawn.com If you guys want to check it out, go for it and just look or private message me if you think I should change anything. Or if you just plain do not like it.
> 
> All of you have been great guys, I wish you the best of luck this plowing season, you deserve it!


I checked you site out.

I did not see on your site that you are insured. You might want to add that if you are.

For some reason, if people see that they get that warm and fuzzy feeling...

Just food for thought. Do what makes you feel good.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

oh, and I like the add on service for fluffy to take a crap... good thinking!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Site looks good. I agree with Phil that you need somewhere that talks about insurance, and even how much your liability covers. My only 2 complaints (if you can call them that) is on your contact us page it has a picture of a loader with a pusher. If you don't own one, know someone who does, or plan in renting one I wouldn't lead someone on like you have one available. The other thing is on your services page. Where you talk about seasonal. My personally thought on seasonal is it's just that. No matter how much it snows or doesn't snow, it's a set price. Now both of those are just my opinions, so don't take it like it's industry standards or something. If you like the way it's set up, go for it!

As a whole I think it looks professional and that you have been on business for years. I hope it brings you a ton of business!


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

Philbilly2 said:


> I checked you site out.
> 
> I did not see on your site that you are insured. You might want to add that if you are.
> 
> ...


Lol yeah I am insured, I keep forgetting what a big deal that is to people.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Site is pretty appealing......
My impression based on the equipment pics you have throughoot is you have a "hi-way/DOT" truck, loader with a muni-plow for doing roads and larger work. Advertising is a fickle beast, IMO you should never imply you can do mulch more than you're capable of. By identifying your targeted markets would be helpful. Now that there's social media and like outlets your credibility can be ambushed with a couple pokes at a keyboard.


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

BUFF said:


> Site is pretty appealing......
> My impression based on the equipment pics you have throughoot is you have a "hi-way/DOT" truck, loader with a muni-plow for doing roads and larger work. Advertising is a fickle beast, IMO you should never imply you can do mulch more than you're capable of. By identifying your targeted markets would be helpful. Now that there's social media and like outlets your credibility can be ambushed with a couple pokes at a keyboard.


Yeah I thought the same thing, go daddy had that pic in there images I think. I planned to take it out this evening. Where and how would I identify my targeted market?


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

I took that picture out and added some more of my equipment rather than the stuff that came with the program with building the site.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

SFCarmyvet said:


> Yeah I thought the same thing, go daddy had that pic in there images I think. I planned to take it out this evening. Where and how would I identify my targeted market?


 I'd suggest under the "aboot" tab wood be a good place and possibly under "services" too.
It can be something as simple as "we specialize in residential and small commercial year round ( or four seasons ) property maintenance"


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## SFCarmyvet (Sep 12, 2016)

BUFF said:


> I'd suggest under the "aboot" tab wood be a good place and possibly under "services" too.
> It can be something as simple as "we specialize in residential and small commercial year round ( or four seasons ) property maintenance"


Oh got it, sorry for making you spell it out for me. I will add that or something like it.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

SFCarmyvet said:


> Oh got it, sorry for making you spell it out for me. I will add that or something like it.


No worries....... Thumbs Up


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

SFCarmyvet said:


> Yeah I thought the same thing, go daddy had that pic in there images I think. I planned to take it out this evening. Where and how would I identify my targeted market?


How long have you been in business? If it's been a while then you know what your target market is. I'm not just talking snow but your landscaping too. So think of your best customers and try to figure out something in common with all of them. For my business obviously I'll work for anyone who can pay but my target customers are the people who have second and third homes here. Meaning they are hardly ever here and have a butt load of money. So I offer a house watch program for $100 a month. I set a day in the beginning of the month and go to all my houses and run faucets, flush toilets, check all the lights, make sure the HVAC is working and do a lap around the house. I let them know if anything is wrong and what items may need to have maintenance etc. Anytime there is something that need to be done like a repaint, a remodel, roofing, etc. I always get the work. Try to think of something similar that would appeal to your target customer and start to weed out the less desirable onesThumbs Up


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