# which truck would you put your money on



## snowsniper1 (Nov 26, 2006)

new 07 chevy 3500 dmax 6 speed auto,08 f350 6.4 pstroke 5 speed auto,or 07 dodge 3500 6.7 cummins 6 speed auto


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## dodgeguy99 (Apr 18, 2006)

i personally would go with a cummins as they have been around forever and are proven to be near bulletproof. they also come with a solid front axle which is a big reason i chose a dodge over a chevy. fords i have just had bad luck in general with them. just my opinion.


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## NoFearDeere (Nov 7, 2005)

Chevy or Dodge. Had lots of luck with Dodge, none with Ford, and never owned a Chevy. So probably Dodge!


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## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

I have owned all three. dodge so far is the most dependable that I've had by a small margin over my 05 chevy. Chevy ran good, but had a lot of small annoying problems, like the steering clunk, exhaust vibrations, and brake booster going bad. I also had a 05 Ford PS. and it was seriously the worst vehicle I have ever owned period!!! 3 trannies and turbos later, I traded it for the chevy! It was only 5 months old!!!!


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

SpruceLandscape;390980 said:


> I also had a 05 Ford PS. and it was seriously the worst vehicle I have ever owned period!!! 3 trannies and turbos later, I traded it for the chevy! It was only 5 months old!!!!


A few friends of ours have fords and so far 95% of them hate the truck. My cousin calls his 01 f150 a dumpster on wheels. He wants to trade trucks with me so he can have my chevy.


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## Snowbrdr360 (Nov 5, 2006)

Mark13;390991 said:


> A few friends of ours have fords and so far 95% of them hate the truck. My cousin calls his 01 f150 a dumpster on wheels. He wants to trade trucks with me so he can have my chevy.


Right on... DURAMAX! I love mine!


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

The Chevy with the Dmax, send me a PM and I can save you a few bucks on a new GM truck. I work for GM and can get you a Suppiler Discount.

Regards Mike


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

POPO4995;390965 said:


> Chevy or Dodge. Had lots of luck with Dodge, none with Ford, and never owned a Chevy. So probably Dodge!


ditto.....


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## snowsniper1 (Nov 26, 2006)

ttt...............................


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## snowsniper1 (Nov 26, 2006)

ttt.........................


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Got something stuck in your teeth?


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## Nascar24 (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm in the market right now, I really love my Excursion, it's a great truckbut I wouldn't consider a new Super Pooper!

My choice is a 2007 Dodge 3500 6.7L CTD, 6spd AT, Mega Cab with SRW, Exhaust Brake and 4:10 gears.

JMO, I think the Dodge has sight edge over the GM in the front end area.

Jay


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## snowsniper1 (Nov 26, 2006)

ttttttttttttttttttttttt


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## GMC99 (Sep 6, 2002)

My 2003 ram 2500 CTD, has 115,000 hard miles on it, this is the first truck I have ever owned over 100,000 miles. It's my plow, work, tow, and fun truck. It's towed and plowed more than its been driven normal, the only thing I've done to it, were u-joints, and ball joints at 100,000 besides normal maintenance. I've owned both chevy and fords, and I would trust this truck at 115,000 to go on a 1000 mile trip, more than I would any of my fords or chevys at 50,000... Best truck I've ever owned period and about to get a brand new one.


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## dodgeguy99 (Apr 18, 2006)

gmc 99 you may have to change your username lol.


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## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

FORD Run as fast a you can Navistar and ford having issues with the power stroke motors!


Chevy duramax with the allison transmission. good power train but i have seen alot of dumb (odds and ends) stuff broken 

Dodge CTD 6.7L book still out i have only driven 1 with the 6.7L as with and CTD it makes boat load of power,

if the chevy and dodge were in the same price range i would leann toward the dodge. for the simple fact of i have seen CTD with 500,000 miles on a bone stock motor, CTD also put a 7 year 100,000 mile warnette on there motors. dodge gives 3/36 bumper to bumper or 7/70 power train...


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## Ole Tower (Jan 29, 2007)

*which Truck?*

I DONO? All in All I personally Think? choosing One Make? over the others? IS! a Personal Choice! as they ALL will Do the JOB! their LOOKS STYLE & Prices make a Big Differance! in Buying ONE as they ALL COST to MUCH! & they ALL have their Good Points & Bad! So Get What? You Really LIKE? --Ole JIM--


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'd go with the Dodge first (solid front axle) and Chevy second. They have had the fewest major changes for a new release, and Ford doesn't exactly have a good history on new releases. 

I have 7 Fords and 2 Dodges. 3 of the Fords are 6.0's that have not been exactly trouble free and one is a plain old POS. I love my 7.3's, though.


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## snowsniper1 (Nov 26, 2006)

ttttttttttttttttttt


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

My GMC with a Duramax has been great, I love it. I would recoment it and would personly buy another for sure.


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## Idealtim (Jan 15, 2006)

I'm a ford guy but if I bought a new truck it would be a dodge. I love the duramax's but hate the interiors and front suspention. Ford is always good but the 08's are ugly and I'm leary of the 6.4(not to mention the mpg's). Dodges look alright, great cab, have no problem carrying weight and have the legendary cummins!


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## RedneckPlowGuy (Oct 18, 2006)

i agree with Dodge, good solid truck with a bullet proof motor and can plow snow and look good doin it!


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## NBI Lawn (Oct 15, 2007)

As far as style goes the GM's take it but the power train of the Dodge is unmatched. Come on its a Cummins, what could go wrong.

IMO


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## OhioPlower (Jan 13, 2004)

Id go with a duramax/allison. Its the best stock combo out there. Yeah IFS sucks but thats about it. They all have problems. Did any of you guys see the 01-02 LB7 Dmax on dieselplace.com that had 727000 miles? It was on there a couple months ago, some guy ran into her at a truck stop and snaped a pic of the odometer. Then again there was that gas chevy truck on the news that hit 1 million miles. GM is where its at IMO.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

i was raised you buy a dodge for work, ford for fun, and a chevy to take out your girl with.

i take my girl plowing with me sometimes so i have the chevy. actually she plows with it too.


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## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

I just got back from the auto show tonight, and my opinion stays the same. Right now Dodge is where its at if you are looking for a good work truck with a decent amount of options as well for your money. I don't trust the Ford's because of the engines (I admit the tranny issue was a fluke because of product change-over at the time) but Ford has had lots of issues with the 4.5L TT V6 in their LCF's, I have to wonder whats going to happen with the new 6.4L?? The cummins hasn't changed with the exception of an additional Cubic Inch gain to make up for the resistance of the Smog stuff on the Cummins. Their trannies are as good or better as the allisons now that they offer the 6-speed Aisin. They still have a solid front axle, but with heavy duty coils to keep your turning radius good, and the interiors are well thought out and not "cheap" looking, even on the base models. There's plenty of room under the hood for maint. and their prices are very competitive. The new chevy/gmc's you either like em or hate em with the new body style. The duramax/allison combo is another awesome driveline, but I'm not convinced the duramax will keep up with the Cummins in longevity (I know thats going to spark a bunch of debate, but thats JMHO) and with what you pay extra for a diesel these days, longevity is what its all about! I'm not impressed with Torsion bars on a heavy duty truck and I don't think you should have to crank em and tweek em to make them work right. 
Dodge has it... for now...


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## sno commander (Oct 16, 2007)

id go with the dodge. they really have come a long way from the 2 gen rams. The new cummins and the 6 speed with the e brake is the best towing combo out their. I love my 2007 cummins and woudn't trade it for anything else. I think you will get the best mpg with the dodge. If i were to choose i would take the chevy in second place, the d-max and allsion is a great combo. i would stay clear from ford for a while till they get their diesels right.:salute:


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## Humvee27 (Feb 5, 2008)

*Dodge!!!!*



snowsniper1;390944 said:


> new 07 chevy 3500 dmax 6 speed auto,08 f350 6.4 pstroke 5 speed auto,or 07 dodge 3500 6.7 cummins 6 speed auto


I don't have any experience with the chevy....the ford I had an 04 ps....more like add an o....I owned a 1996 Dodge 3/4 ex cab with 5.9, 5 spd...that truck left the park with 238,000 on it...loved that truck....the ford only had 35,000 when I got rid of it and started driving the 96 again....I would have kept the 96 except for one small problem...my dad literally blew it up (seperated the bellhousing from everything else) trying to pull over a tree....of course he told me his chevy 1/2 would have done it.....anyway, I love my 07 Dodge...10,000 in 4 months....I would go with the Dodge...I got the Hemi because of the lifetime powertrain warranty....that and a good deal on it...


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## OhioPlower (Jan 13, 2004)

They dont have the 6 speed aisins trannys in the pickups, just cab and chassis


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

OhioPlower;529986 said:


> They dont have the 6 speed aisins trannys in the pickups, just cab and chassis


What??????


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Yaz;544973 said:


> What??????


IIRC the *HD* Asian 6 speed autos only come in the C&C. Cummins powered pickups still get the standard issue 68RFE 6 speed auto..


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## Newdude (Dec 4, 2006)

i double checked, and B&B is correct. C&C get the aisin and 3/4-1 ton get the 68RFE 6 speed.


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## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

Yeah I think they are holding back the Aisins in the 2500 and 3500 pick ups for the body change over in 2010. Then it should be an option. I think the C.C are the test dummies right now. They will work the bugs out and then offer to all.


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

I would find it hard for B&B to lead us wrong. For after reading his posts of the past; he is thourogh and knows his stuff. If not by memory then experience or lastly at least looking it up. As for leaving the trans in the CC is a good choise IMO. For in the model year there are a lot less of these units produced, if there is a screw up then the only have to save face with a few rater than all general public. Plus what a better test platform than the 4500 5500 trucks of the trans lives and preforms good in these then the 2500 3500 series will NEVER have an issue.

DAFF


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## Newdude (Dec 4, 2006)

the only reason i looked it up was because i wasn't even sure. I say go with the dodge.


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## crash444 (Jan 12, 2008)

Go with the dodge with the cuumins. I drive an 08 F350 with the 6.4 and it sucks the fuel big time good thing it is the company truck i couldn't afford the fuel for it. i own an 06 dodge with the 5.9 cummins and i think it plows alot better. the dodge feels more torquey and torque is what you want when plowing and towing. A buddy has a chevy with the DMax and it runs awesome but the front end is always giveing him problems. if they put the dmax in a toyota i would probaly buy one.


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

Real Diesels Have Six Cylinders & Are Made Of Cast Iron Not Recycled Pop Cans


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

Booman70;545907 said:


> Real Diesels Have Six Cylinders & Are Made Of Cast Iron Not Recycled Pop Cans


If you can touch and be beat buy it it must be real.


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## 2003ctd (Sep 4, 2007)

Hey yaz, Bring that POS duramax of yours to chicago and Ill show you what a real diesel will do... theres a reason, why the same cummins that goes into the rams, also powers mobile homes, tow trucks etc.. Why don't they put the duramax in commercial heavy duty trucks?? Recycled pop cans is right.. Oh and by the way, did you know that 50 % of new dodge truck owners used to drive a chevy?? hmmm wonder why


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## sno commander (Oct 16, 2007)

Booman70;545907 said:


> Real Diesels Have Six Cylinders & Are Made Of Cast Iron Not Recycled Pop Cans


amen to that :salute:


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

Ya had two Chevys before I got smart and bought the Cummins I push more snow than my dad with his F550 Powerjoke w/9'2" v blade. And if I was buildin a racer maybe I would buy the duracrap they are fast but the mighty CUMMINS is proven itself for BILLIONS of miles in BIG trucks on the road


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

2003ctd;546107 said:


> Hey yaz, Bring that POS duramax of yours to chicago and Ill show you what a real diesel will do... theres a reason, why the same cummins that goes into the rams, also powers mobile homes, tow trucks etc.. Why don't they put the duramax in commercial heavy duty trucks?? Recycled pop cans is right.. Oh and by the way, did you know that 50 % of new dodge truck owners used to drive a chevy?? hmmm wonder why


POS Duramax.. Are you joking? Look at you own post below.. lol...I wouldn't waist my time..You obviously need to read up on Duramaxs and what they are capable of.. how about in the 5500 top kick dump? it has them.

All joking aside... I hope you getting running right again.. maybe bad fuel or a injector stuck as well a you thoughts of the lift pump.

Quoted from 2003ctd post......
Ok heres the problem.. My 2003 has been running like crap. My fuel mileage has been cut in half, and its lost alot of its power.. I know I have a fuel issue somewhere. The truck seems to run fine (besides power loss).. But when the high idle kicks on when its cold, it runs like crap, it in a way sounds like it chugging, or missing, kick the idle down sounds fine. And at the same time, my trans has been acting up (struggling to find gears, started at the same time).. Im leaning towards my lift pump being on its way out, what do you guys think? This truck has been maintained 110%, fuel filter gets changed every other oil change etc.. The truck has 135,000 miles on it, and has had a programmer on it since new. Any advise would be greatly appreciated!


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## 2003ctd (Sep 4, 2007)

First problem with the motor in 135000 miles...How many duramaxes can you say that about?


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

2003ctd;546795 said:


> First problem with the motor in 135000 miles...How many duramaxes can you say that about?


Lots..

800,000 http://www.chevy200k.com/gallery/detail.php?id=8ec58282

408K http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228552&highlight=miles

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189148&highlight=miles

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218970&highlight=miles


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## Newdude (Dec 4, 2006)

if only we could have the best of both worlds, sigh.

MY dream trucks would be as follows:

1.) 07.5-08 2500-3500HD body and frame, cummins swap or keep the dmax, solid axle conversion.
2.) 05-07 ford f-250 or f-350 body and frame, 6.6 LMM or preferable duramax OR a cummins swap.

I am still leaning on the cummins side for your next truck but it is up to you. I wish you luck.


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

Yaz;546011 said:


> If you can touch and be beat buy it it must be real.


You flamed me for stating my opinion on what I would put my money on. I'm just thinking millions of BIG trucks BIG boats etc.run CUMMINS everyday. How many Duracraps are in em? And most of the really fast true drag diesels are CUMMINS.


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

Yaz;546777 said:


> POS Duramax.. Are you joking? Look at you own post below.. lol...I wouldn't waist my time..You obviously need to read up on Duramaxs and what they are capable of.. how about in the 5500 top kick dump? it has them.
> 
> All joking aside... I hope you getting running right again.. maybe bad fuel or a injector stuck as well a you thoughts of the lift pump.
> 
> ...


And theres a reason above 5500 for GMs and the 550 for Ford the last I looked a couple years ago standard engine was CUMMINS upgrade to CAT now GM 6500 is ISUZU I6 standard Ford 650 is CUMMINS still. And I just like the time tested Cummins and for any weight in the front definitely a solid axle in my opinion the best of both worlds would be a Ford with the CUMMINS.


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## 2003ctd (Sep 4, 2007)

Yaz;546777 said:


> POS Duramax.. Are you joking? Look at you own post below.. lol...I wouldn't waist my time..You obviously need to read up on Duramaxs and what they are capable of.. how about in the 5500 top kick dump? it has them.
> 
> yeah I've read up on the duramaxes and have to drive one for work on occasion... Its why I don't own one


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

2003ctd;546795 said:


> First problem with the motor in 135000 miles...How many duramaxes can you say that about?


I proved it to you here.....below



Yaz;546886 said:


> Lots..
> 
> 800,000 http://www.chevy200k.com/gallery/detail.php?id=8ec58282
> 
> ...





2003ctd;547202 said:


> yeah I've read up on the duramaxes and have to drive one for work on occasion... Its why I don't own one


2003ctd Why are they bad? Your sarcastic comments I find a bit childish..POS, not real come race me bla bla bla..and wouldn't own one etc. Just state you like the Cummings from your personal experiences what little you have being only 23 years old. I'm sure your a nice kid and I don't want to fight about stuff just be civil about our comments, that all.

Hey Booman70...You don't have to belittle The Duramax by spelling it wrong. And by the way the Cummins that are in your pickup trucks are totally different than what you mention in boats & heavy duty trucks. Cummins makes a verity of big engines. Check out the ISM and ISX models. I learned a bit, you can too. I hear it all the time that Duramaxs are Japanese. Duramax engine is a joint design with Isuzu and GM. The engine is a GM product and there is no "matching" Japanese version. The Duramax engine is only produced in the Moraine Ohio plant. Crankshafts are supposedly machined from blanks forged in Germany. Injection systems are Bosch, of course and some other electronics may be sub-parts, but I know that the blocks are machined and bores induction-hardened in Moraine. So, I'd say these engines are hardly Japanese at all.


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

If the Dmax engines are so good then why are so many Chevy guys switching to Dodge?? As I look around the net for used trucks the Cummins seem to hold the value better than the Duramax even with 2x's the mileage!! To each thier own but for those people who drive small big trucks for a living (RV haulers) they seem to be moving away from the Chevy and more to the Dodges too.

Myself I have a 96 L7000 Ford with a 5.9 Cummins engine. This truck is by far the best I've ever owned. Starts up EZ even when it is bitter cold and is good on the Diesel too. This is my main reason from moving from the Chevy trucks to the Dodge. It's because of the Engine.


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## 2003ctd (Sep 4, 2007)

One of the guys I plow for, just traded in 3 2007 3500 Duramaxes for 3 5500 Dodges... Why did he do it? He's had so many problems with all 3 of them he got rid of them before they even hit 15000 miles. He's been a die hard chevy guy his whole life, I finally talked him into test driving the dodge a few weeks ago, he bought 3 of them on the spot, said he should have listened to me years ago. I to once was a die hard chevy guy, and owned a duramax for about 6 months. I swithched to dodge and got laughed at..but Im the one laughing now. All the BS problems that plague the GM's is not worth it. Not just the motors, all the other stupid little problems (due to cheap parts) that Gm just can';t seem to figure out... 10 years ago I would have bought a chevy hands down, but there not what they used to be.

And yeah I might only be 23, but how many 23 year olds do you know that own a succesfull construction company that grossed over 1.3 mil last year??? Don't doubt us young guys, we might be young and act immature sometimes but some of us have our heads on straight, and have made something of ourselves.

And YAZ have you ever owned a dodge? Or driven one for a period of time?


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

Yaz I know exactly who designed the duramax for gm and I know the different CUMMINS engines I used to drive big trucks with real I6 diesels made out of cast iron and actually some boats are 5.9s. But the trucks that gm puts out that are to big for the duramax used to have CUMMINS as standard engine the same 5.9 I6 in my truck now they switched to isuzu I6 they probably figured it wasnt a good idea to run the competitors engine in their trucks that were to big for the duramax but ford is still running the CUMMINS in their trucks that are to big for the powerjoke the same engine DODGE puts in their pickups I guess its the differencebetween industrial designed diesel engines and medium duty designed engines. And I didn't even misspell the duramax this time for ya. You come on to the DODGE line and flame DODGE what do you expect.


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

2003ctd the guy you contract for traded 3 trucks with only 15k? Still under warranty and could resolve his issues, sounds like he bought his trucks from a dealer that sell more Buicks and doesn't have a good Diesel mechanic. That not even uncommon with Dodge dealers. O yeh.. I drove a friends dodge when he had front end and trans problems to help him diag it.. 6 times at the dealer to try to fix the pulling until they bought it back (LEMON LAW).. He still owns his GMC he bought in replace of it and it been perfect. 

Booman70 I Flamed dodge? Really...look again. It was you flaming DURAMAX. All I did was defend what I believe is a good product. If you disagree, you're entitled too, but I am entitled to defend it.


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

Booman70;545907 said:


> Real Diesels Have Six Cylinders & Are Made Of Cast Iron Not Recycled Pop Cans


I was merely stating my opinion from driving BIG trucks for a # of years all of which were six cylinder diesels made of cast iron not aluminum. I was feeling the same about ford and gm. I've pulled on the scale @ 136,000lbs. with a straight sixer pulling it. In it for the long haul I would buy any truck with a CUMMINS in it which came from it's big brothers in the BIG truck market.


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## 2003ctd (Sep 4, 2007)




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## snowfighter75 (Mar 10, 2007)

Dodge! Thats the bottom line.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

*Misinformation*

It seems there's a bunch of wrong information floating around here.The 6.6 litre Duramax only has aluminum heads--the block is cast iron.It was designed that way to save weight and for better cooling.It's a great design,I've gone over 145K miles with no issues,I know fellow Dmax owners who have logged over 300K miles--also no problems. Recycled pop cans? Give me a break.The 7.8 litre Dmax I6 goes in app.30-40% of 6500-8500's,the Cat 3126 gets the lion's share,I don't think you can even get a Cummins right now--years ago yes,but not recently.Both are great motors,as is a Cummins.I have the 250HP version of the Kitty--wish I had the 300HP version of the Dmax in my 7500 Chevy dump. That stupid pull-off on Joke Tube proves absolutely nothing---it's all who gains traction first--PERIOD--has nothing to do with who's truck is better,plus it's moronic to try that BS in the first place.As for Chevy owners switching to Dodge in droves,that's as false a statement as I've heard in a long time.It's usually the other way around.Like I said,the Cummins is a good motor but unfortunately it goes in a chassis that is plagued with rattles,steering issues, and transmission failures.A Dodge compared to a Chevy/GMC loses much more value come resale or trade-in time.Either the LBZ or L MM versions of the Dmax with the 6 speed Ally is the sweetest small truck powertrain on the planet right now.Some hot shotters I know are pulling ungodly amounts of weight--some without programmers or other serious mods.To each their own---whatever floats your boat.


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## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

Dodge and Chevy both make good trucks, and to be honest, if chevy would have given me as much for my money as Dodge was willing to, then thats what I would probably be driving.
All personal opinions aside as far as "brand goes"... both have AWESOME engines and drivelines and both are capable of lasting a very long time as long as they are maintained. The biggest difference between the two is do you feel comfortable with torsion bars in front, or do you want a solid front axle. If thats not of any concern, then let it come down to who is giving the best incentives at the time when you are looking to buy new, or if used, where you can get the right truck for the right buck. END OF STORY!!!
Everyone knows someone who's chevy or dodge has had problems early on, and everyone knows someone whos truck went 300k before needing any kind of major service. Data like that can be skewed depending on how much time you have to surf the net.


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## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

tuney443;547542 said:


> It seems there's a bunch of wrong information floating around here.The 6.6 litre Duramax only has aluminum heads--the block is cast iron.It was designed that way to save weight and for better cooling.It's a great design,I've gone over 145K miles with no issues,I know fellow Dmax owners who have logged over 300K miles--also no problems. Recycled pop cans? Give me a break.The 7.8 litre Dmax I6 goes in app.30-40% of 6500-8500's,the Cat 3126 gets the lion's share,I don't think you can even get a Cummins right now--years ago yes,but not recently.Both are great motors,as is a Cummins.I have the 250HP version of the Kitty--wish I had the 300HP version of the Dmax in my 7500 Chevy dump. That stupid pull-off on Joke Tube proves absolutely nothing---it's all who gains traction first--PERIOD--has nothing to do with who's truck is better,plus it's moronic to try that BS in the first place.As for Chevy owners switching to Dodge in droves,that's as false a statement as I've heard in a long time.It's usually the other way around.Like I said,the Cummins is a good motor but unfortunately it goes in a chassis that is plagued with rattles,steering issues, and transmission failures.A Dodge compared to a Chevy/GMC loses much more value come resale or trade-in time.Either the LBZ or L MM versions of the Dmax with the 6 speed Ally is the sweetest small truck powertrain on the planet right now.Some hot shotters I know are pulling ungodly amounts of weight--some without programmers or other serious mods.To each their own---whatever floats your boat.


This was a GREAT post until you got to the "unfortunately it goes in a chassis that is plagued with rattles, steering issues, and transmission failures." 
Can you back that up? Did you own one that had all those problems, or are you generalizing again? Cause to be honest, that is the exact reason that I got out of my 2005 Chevy, because I had all but the transmission failure part of that one a truck with only 23k miles. Haven't had a SINGLE problem with my Dodge now with the exception of a computer reflash that they sent me a letter in the mail about that needed to be done.
Again, none of the problems I had with the chevy were what I would call "major". they were just annoying... Truck started, ran, worked everyday, but I got tired of being annoyed every morning on the way to the first job. I bought the Dodge, haven't looked back, but like I said earlier, I was shopping for a new CHEVY first! They just couldn't match the money that Dodge was willng to save me.


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

tuney443;547542 said:


> It seems there's a bunch of wrong information floating around here.The 6.6 litre Duramax only has aluminum heads--the block is cast iron.It was designed that way to save weight and for better cooling.It's a great design,I've gone over 145K miles with no issues,I know fellow Dmax owners who have logged over 300K miles--also no problems. Recycled pop cans? Give me a break.The 7.8 litre Dmax I6 goes in app.30-40% of 6500-8500's,the Cat 3126 gets the lion's share,I don't think you can even get a Cummins right now--years ago yes,but not recently.Both are great motors,as is a Cummins.I have the 250HP version of the Kitty--wish I had the 300HP version of the Dmax in my 7500 Chevy dump. That stupid pull-off on Joke Tube proves absolutely nothing---it's all who gains traction first--PERIOD--has nothing to do with who's truck is better,plus it's moronic to try that BS in the first place.As for Chevy owners switching to Dodge in droves,that's as false a statement as I've heard in a long time.It's usually the other way around.Like I said,the Cummins is a good motor but unfortunately it goes in a chassis that is plagued with rattles,steering issues, and transmission failures.A Dodge compared to a Chevy/GMC loses much more value come resale or trade-in time.Either the LBZ or L MM versions of the Dmax with the 6 speed Ally is the sweetest small truck powertrain on the planet right now.Some hot shotters I know are pulling ungodly amounts of weight--some without programmers or other serious mods.To each their own---whatever floats your boat.


Some more wrong information above not a DMAX available in anything above 5500 look on the GMC truck website its a Isuzu I6 now, but back in 04 when we were looking at dump trucks it was still the CUMMINS and for Ford it still is above the F550. And all truck manufacturers have problems I can go to any Chevy site any day and find problems guys *****in about there trucks and it goes for Dodge and Ford also. I havent had any problems with my truck and have pushed alot of snow and hauled alot of weight yet my dad's fords have had a few.


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

I never seen guys get so uptight about my trucks better than yours. If you like your truck fine, but the here say bologna is dumb. If you want bash a truck you owned fine but calling other people vehicles Tin cans, POS etc is just immature.

Are we talk big heavy duty trucks on this post.. I think not. I assumed but I may be wrong this was about the most common trucks on this site.. 1/2 to 1 tons. Saab make jets, does that really make them better cars? If Caterpillar decided to make a pick up would be the best all around truck.. I doubt it. See my point?


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

SpruceLandscape;547646 said:


> This was a GREAT post until you got to the "unfortunately it goes in a chassis that is plagued with rattles, steering issues, and transmission failures."
> Can you back that up? Did you own one that had all those problems, or are you generalizing again? Cause to be honest, that is the exact reason that I got out of my 2005 Chevy, because I had all but the transmission failure part of that one a truck with only 23k miles. Haven't had a SINGLE problem with my Dodge now with the exception of a computer reflash that they sent me a letter in the mail about that needed to be done.
> Again, none of the problems I had with the chevy were what I would call "major". they were just annoying... Truck started, ran, worked everyday, but I got tired of being annoyed every morning on the way to the first job. I bought the Dodge, haven't looked back, but like I said earlier, I was shopping for a new CHEVY first! They just couldn't match the money that Dodge was willng to save me.


No,haven't owned one---Chevy through and through only.Generalizing again? No,as this was my first post in this thread but I will say yes I can most definitely back my statement up as I've had a bunch of friends with HD Dodges with both gassers and Cummins.All of them are/were always complaining about the tin lizzy feel,the constant rattles,steering box issues---some have come over to the dark side---yeah,they're GM owners now. Sorry for your bad luck with your Chevy---could happen,not denying there's some lemons out there as is there's that possibility for any make.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Booman70;547755 said:


> Some more wrong information above not a DMAX available in anything above 5500 look on the GMC truck website its a Isuzu I6 now, but back in 04 when we were looking at dump trucks it was still the CUMMINS and for Ford it still is above the F550. And all truck manufacturers have problems I can go to any Chevy site any day and find problems guys *****in about there trucks and it goes for Dodge and Ford also. I havent had any problems with my truck and have pushed alot of snow and hauled alot of weight yet my dad's fords have had a few.


The only wrong information here is on your end.I said '' The 7.8 litre Dmax I6 goes in app. 30-40% of 6500-8500's.'' That would be what you refer to as a ''Isuzu I6''.I'm still not sure of your Cummins claim though as most GM 6500-8500's got and still get the 3126 Cat.I'm not saying it's not possible--I'm around big trucks constantly{I'm an excavating contractor}--I've just never seen or heard of a small Cummins in one. And yes,of course all trucks have problems of some sort---never denied that.I'm just pro-Chevy,that's all,my right brother.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

2003ctd;546107 said:


> Hey yaz, Bring that POS duramax of yours to chicago and Ill show you what a real diesel will do... theres a reason, why the same cummins that goes into the rams, also powers mobile homes, tow trucks etc.. Why don't they put the duramax in commercial heavy duty trucks?? Recycled pop cans is right.. Oh and by the way, did you know that 50 % of new dodge truck owners used to drive a chevy?? hmmm wonder why


If I'm not mistaken the Dmax trucks are still winning everything at the drags, so if you're talking about racing, wake up and smell the diesel.
You've got it backwards. Dodge didn't have the wherewithal to design and mass produce a light duty diesel engine. So they followed in Fords footsteps and bought one instead. The Cummins was taken from the medium duty lineup and stuffed into the light duty trucks (even though the tailgate says heavy duty, its actually a light duty truck) This is the only reason they have such a good motor that makes a lot of torque and lasts forever. GM took another route and designed and built light duty diesels for light duty pickups. Course everyone badmouths the 6.5 because it isn't an oversized 500,000 mile commercial truck engine. It is what it was designed to be. You Dodge guys are just fortunate Dodge decided to buy medium duty engines rather than invest in R&D to build a light duty diesel.
FYI, the Duramax can be found in medium duty trucks. Same as the Cummins. Not sure where you get the heavy duty truck comment from. I've yet to see a 5.9 Cummins in a heavy duty truck.
Just hate to see Dodge fans, and Dodge itself, take credit for having a great engine when it's just something that bought. Probably the smartest thing they ever did, but doesn't make a better truck. Now instead of a cheap truck with a lousy motor, Dodge makes a cheap truck with a great motor.
I can't believe you guys still rave about solid axles. Get with the program, solid axles went out shortly after the dinasaurs. IFS is NOT weak like Ford and Dodge tried to convince everyone in 1988. It is in fact very strong in a 3/4 or 1 ton application, is better designed and lasts longer. I've had a million SFA GMs, and my IFS is much stronger. I haven't even replaced my balljoints yet with 160k! (Try to get that out of a Ford).


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

I wish you would get it through your head, the Dmax and Cummins are available in the same size/class of trucks. And Dodge doesn't even build anything over a 3500, so now you're talking about Cummins powered medium duty trucks built by somebody else entirely.
Just because Cummins makes nice heavy duty 855 cubic inch engines for the trucking industry doesn't mean anything whe it comes to light duty pickups. Your truck does NOT have a 500 horse N-14Cummins in it. I too drove heavy commercial, and I've seen how much a turned up N-14 will pull (85 tons). Still got nothing to do with a pickup.
What did that video show? Looked to me like they were pretty evenly matched, and the Dodge had work done. Tug of war is all about knowing how to do it. I've seen a half ton gas Chevy Avalanche drag a dually Cummins 1 ton. It's more about technique.


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## 2003ctd (Sep 4, 2007)

Detroitdan;548187 said:


> I wish you would get it through your head, the Dmax and Cummins are available in the same size/class of trucks. And Dodge doesn't even build anything over a 3500, so now you're talking about Cummins powered medium duty trucks built by somebody else entirely.
> Just because Cummins makes nice heavy duty 855 cubic inch engines for the trucking industry doesn't mean anything whe it comes to light duty pickups. Your truck does NOT have a 500 horse N-14Cummins in it. I too drove heavy commercial, and I've seen how much a turned up N-14 will pull (85 tons). Still got nothing to do with a pickup.
> What did that video show? Looked to me like they were pretty evenly matched, and the Dodge had work done. Tug of war is all about knowing how to do it. I've seen a half ton gas Chevy Avalanche drag a dually Cummins 1 ton. It's more about technique.


Umm Dodge starting building 4500 and 5500 trucks a year ago, where have you been? And I didn't buy a diesel truck because of how fast it is. I would much rather have a medium duty diesel motor in my truck then a light duty, thats just common sense. The duramax is nothing but a converted over big block, theres nothing special about it. There are many design flaws with the duramax... GM can't seem to meet the new emissions regulations, without there trucks throwing codes on a regular basis, and the fact that you have to run "premium" diesel in them is even worse. I can't believe you would actually say thats its better to have a light duty diesel in a truck rather than a medium duty "real truck motor" what planet are you from? I don't care how fast your truck is, if I wanted a fast truck I would have bought a SRT-10 ram.

And answer this question, how come there are so many towns, and goverment owned agencies that are now switching to dodge? Why not chevy? Durability thats why. And byt the way I will stick by what I said, IFS has no business being on a heavy duty truck.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

Oh wow, a whole entire year ago? So they must be really on top of the medium duty truck line. I guess I haven't been on a Dodge truck website for a year or more. Last time I looked, about a year ago, Dodge was marketing a truck that was built for them by someone else, like Mercedes/Freightliner, or maybe it was Sterling. I forget. So, I went and checked and you're right; looks like again they are copying Ford by putting their pickup cab on a glider chassis and adding medium duty stuff under it. Why do you suppose that is? If you compare them side by side the Kodiak is a lot more like the commercial trucks you speak of.
Not sure if I ever said I would rather have a light duty diesel than a medium duty "real truck motor". Did I? Unfortunately my only options would be to install:
1) a Duramax- why bother, I can just buy a newer truck that already has one.
2) a Caterpillar- it's been done, but it's too heavy for a LD pickup
3) a Cummins- also been done, because the 5.9 is actually a pretty small motor. If you ever drove one in a medium duty you'd realize that.
If I were going to invest the money to build a high performance diesel truck, then you can bet I'd want it to be fast. Pulling any weight that's road-legal for a 1 ton is easy, any stock truck will do that. I've actually entertained the idea of putting a 5.9 in my truck, but only because of the enormous performance aftermarket availability.
Duramax isnt a converted over big block. Its a new design. If it happens to have similarities to a big block, it's because big blocks had some good design attributes. Not sure about the emission problems, I thought that was Ford that couldn't pass emissions. Only problems I've heard with the Duramaxes consistently was the injectors, which were warranteed. 
Do you see a lot of these big bad Cummins powered 1 ton pickups carrying work bodies? Such as wreckers, reefers, rollbacks, buckets, etc ? I know I haven't seen many. Because most truck upfitters don't want to deal with the frame issues. You can't drill or weld a Dodge pickup frame without blowing the warranty (because Dodge knows they'll fail). So if you ever do see a Dodge with any kind of work truck body, it's because someone wanted it really bad, did it themselves or found a shop that didn't care about the frame issues.


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## 2003ctd (Sep 4, 2007)

Detroitdan;548210 said:


> Oh wow, a whole entire year ago? So they must be really on top of the medium duty truck line. I guess I haven't been on a Dodge truck website for a year or more. Last time I looked, about a year ago, Dodge was marketing a truck that was built for them by someone else, like Mercedes/Freightliner, or maybe it was Sterling. I forget. So, I went and checked and you're right; looks like again they are copying Ford by putting their pickup cab on a glider chassis and adding medium duty stuff under it. Why do you suppose that is? If you compare them side by side the Kodiak is a lot more like the commercial trucks you speak of.
> Not sure if I ever said I would rather have a light duty diesel than a medium duty "real truck motor". Did I? Unfortunately my only options would be to install:
> 1) a Duramax- why bother, I can just buy a newer truck that already has one.
> 2) a Caterpillar- it's been done, but it's too heavy for a LD pickup
> ...


Where are you getting your information from? Dodges frames will fail? Go into any dodge dealer they put work bodies on them right from the factory... I just passed the local dodge dealer on my home, and they have 11 dumps, 2 flat beds, and yes a few tow trucks set up and ready to go.. Why won't GM warranty there trucks like dodge does? Why is it dodge can warranty there trucks to 100,000 miles and there transmissions until 150,000 miles but GM won't? Everybody I know (atleast 35 people) who own a GM product car or truck hate them, there in for warranty work 15 times a year. GM is not what they used to be 10 years ago, and it shows.. You think its a bad thing, that dodge is basing there designs from sterling, and benz?? I dunno about you, but I would rather be driving a truck thats based off of a sterling than anything else... And one last thing, my buddy has a brand new sterling tow truck with the same 6.7 cummins that the dodges have. I have a mobile home, with a 5.9 in it, and a sub for me has ford 650 with a 5.9 in it.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

2003ctd;548193 said:


> Umm Dodge starting building 4500 and 5500 trucks a year ago, where have you been? And I didn't buy a diesel truck because of how fast it is. I would much rather have a medium duty diesel motor in my truck then a light duty, thats just common sense. The duramax is nothing but a converted over big block, theres nothing special about it. There are many design flaws with the duramax... GM can't seem to meet the new emissions regulations, without there trucks throwing codes on a regular basis, and the fact that you have to run "premium" diesel in them is even worse. I can't believe you would actually say thats its better to have a light duty diesel in a truck rather than a medium duty "real truck motor" what planet are you from? I don't care how fast your truck is, if I wanted a fast truck I would have bought a SRT-10 ram.
> 
> And answer this question, how come there are so many towns, and goverment owned agencies that are now switching to dodge? Why not chevy? Durability thats why. And byt the way I will stick by what I said, IFS has no business being on a heavy duty truck.


The Dmax 6.6 is most definitely NOT a converted over big block.{I'm assuming you mean by this a gasser}When it was introduced in 2001,the first version being the LB7,it was completely a fresh,new design partnered by Isuzu and GM.Isuzu brought to the table the experience of mass producing excellent light,medium and heavy duty diesels for more than 50 years in Japan.As for design flaws,I know of only one and that is after 300,000 miles,there is a chance the harmonic balancer might loosen---That's IT !!!! The earlier injector issue has been resolved,there are no issues.I have no idea what you've heard,so if it's not just hear-say BS,bring it on.Emission regulations,throwing codes,and your best''premium diesel''---what is that?The Dmax runs on ULSD---15PPM just like your beloved Cummins---that is fact.The Dmax has had no problem meeting the 2007 emission regs and they definitely do not throw codes for no good reason. The reason gov't agencies buy Dodge is very simple math---they are usually priced cheaper,especially on the state bids,not because of better durability.Let's get our facts straight here.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

2003ctd;548229 said:


> Where are you getting your information from? Dodges frames will fail? Go into any dodge dealer they put work bodies on them right from the factory... I just passed the local dodge dealer on my home, and they have 11 dumps, 2 flat beds, and yes a few tow trucks set up and ready to go.. Why won't GM warranty there trucks like dodge does? Why is it dodge can warranty there trucks to 100,000 miles and there transmissions until 150,000 miles but GM won't? Everybody I know (atleast 35 people) who own a GM product car or truck hate them, there in for warranty work 15 times a year. GM is not what they used to be 10 years ago, and it shows.. You think its a bad thing, that dodge is basing there designs from sterling, and benz?? I dunno about you, but I would rather be driving a truck thats based off of a sterling than anything else... And one last thing, my buddy has a brand new sterling tow truck with the same 6.7 cummins that the dodges have. I have a mobile home, with a 5.9 in it, and a sub for me has ford 650 with a 5.9 in it.


For the record,starting in 2007 with the Classics line,GM was the first to change over from 36K miles to 100K miles on the warranty.Now the question you ask,why isn't the Ally warranted for 150K miles while either the Aisin or the other Automatic Dodge offers in pickups only is---all I can say there is that first 100K miles is nothing to sneaze at and second,we are talking about the very best automatic on the planet---it's basically bullet-proof.Ally's will hold up to app.200 more lbs.' torque than the stock 660-665 lbs.' torque.So we are talking app. 860 lbs.' here.If you compare the mainshaft of an Aisin or a Ford to an Ally,you would see what real beef is all about.It's spelled Allison.


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

*Hey you know what's funny?*

2003CTD has problems with his truck, look at his posts! All his other post are here talking how great Cummons and Dodge are and how bad Duramax is... Now that's funny stuff! HA HA HA HA

All my GM trucks have been great, Can you say the same from your personal experiences? Nope! History here on plowsite proves it. I hate to belittle you a bit saying that, but your going overboard bashing GM. Look, we all joke my truck better then your bla bla bla. But like is said before you kind of immature doing this to a extreme, just let it go. We all agree some guys get lemons in all the brands, some guys get lucky. My experience driving GM long before you were born is not luck, it's proof.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

2003ctd;548229 said:


> Everybody I know (atleast 35 people) who own a GM product car or truck hate them, there in for warranty work 15 times a year. GM is not what they used to be 10 years ago, and it shows..


You know, I was really really trying to be good and stay out of this conversation...

....but then I read the statement above and actually laughed right out loud... talk about a ridiculous outright lie.

I think we can just successfully dismiss everything 2003ctd says in this thread, as obviously his head is in the clouds (of diesel smoke). You totally blew credibility with a statement like that. Now THATs the definition of exaggeration!! 

For the record we've owned nothing but GM vehicles from the day I was born in '77, and had absolutely nothing but good things to say about them. Never ever had a lemon, never had one in for countless repairs... all lived to ripe old ages.

I like the Cummins, alot. Pretty much all modern diesels are good engines, with the exceptions of the '03+ Powerstrokes.... as long as they are used within their design limitations. Even the old 6.2s were good engines(albeit underpowered, but they were designed for fuel mileage concious commuters and light work)... Dodge didn't even have a diesel available then! Sure, the Cummins motor in the Dodge may last longer, too bad the truck won't! What good is an engine after the truck is gone?

This whole thread is stupid. And why of all things is it in the Dodge forum?


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## sno commander (Oct 16, 2007)

if anyone wants any info you can go to pickuptruck.com and they compare all the big three diesels (loaded unloaded up hills and all that). not trying to start anything here but the gm took the cake and this is coming from a dodge/cummins owner.ussmileyflag


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

tuney443;547969 said:


> The only wrong information here is on your end.I said '' The 7.8 litre Dmax I6 goes in app. 30-40% of 6500-8500's.'' That would be what you refer to as a ''Isuzu I6''.I'm still not sure of your Cummins claim though as most GM 6500-8500's got and still get the 3126 Cat.I'm not saying it's not possible--I'm around big trucks constantly{I'm an excavating contractor}--I've just never seen or heard of a small Cummins in one. And yes,of course all trucks have problems of some sort---never denied that.I'm just pro-Chevy,that's all,my right brother.


More wring info on your part look at the GMC truck site go ahead try and order a 6500-8500 with a Duracrap you cant: nono:. Just because the I6 made by ISUZU the people who had to design GMs engine for them does not make it a Duracrack thats why its a I6 not a v8.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Booman70;548919 said:


> More wring info on your part look at the GMC truck site go ahead try and order a 6500-8500 with a Duracrap you cant: nono:. Just because the I6 made by ISUZU the people who had to design GMs engine for them does not make it a Duracrack thats why its a I6 not a v8.


Having some trouble following your grasp of the English language,but once again it is you who is mistaken---the 7.8 litre Duramax{please note the correct spelling here} I6 comes in HP ratings from app.200--300,depending on the application. It is available in Chevy,GMC,and Isuzu medium duty trucks.I have no idea what you're trying to say regarding'' I6,not a v8'',but what ever it is,it's probably BS,because it's real clear here you have no clue what you're talking about.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

I think what he is saying is you can't get the 6.6L V8 Duramax motor in them. You have to go to the 7.8L I6 Duramax motor, which apparently he believes means it is not a Duramax. But, apples to apples, the Cummins in the same class with that I6 are not the 5.9L I6 little truck motor either. 
I've driven a few F-750 Fords with the old 5.9 in them. Never drove one fully loaded, but I can say empty they were pretty gutless, a lot worse than the 444 in the International 4700 series with the exact same chassis and box. And the 444 is no prize to begin with.


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

sno commander;548817 said:


> if anyone wants any info you can go to pickuptruck.com and they compare all the big three diesels (loaded unloaded up hills and all that). not trying to start anything here but the gm took the cake and this is coming from a dodge/cummins owner.ussmileyflag


I never read that column until you posted it, they did a good caparison of all things. Thanks for the interesting reading.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Detroitdan;548978 said:


> I think what he is saying is you can't get the 6.6L V8 Duramax motor in them. You have to go to the 7.8L I6 Duramax motor, which apparently he believes means it is not a Duramax. But, apples to apples, the Cummins in the same class with that I6 are not the 5.9L I6 little truck motor either.
> I've driven a few F-750 Fords with the old 5.9 in them. Never drove one fully loaded, but I can say empty they were pretty gutless, a lot worse than the 444 in the International 4700 series with the exact same chassis and box. And the 444 is no prize to begin with.


Thankyou,I think you're right as to his thinking.I don't know why he would think that though as it most certainly is a Dmax,with all the great features the same as on it's smaller brother.


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

If its a DURACRAP why wont gm say its DURACRAP on their site if you build a 5500 it says DURACRACK go to 6500 says ISUZU engine and I6 which when I drove truck meant Inline six not v8 pretty simple the english language is


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

Umm, I don't know, maybe to avoid confusion? Maybe so people thinking about buying one wouldn't suspect it was only a little 6.6 pickup motor and go elsewhere? I don't know, but I think the GM/Isuzu diesel engine line is called Duramax. WTF difference does it make what it's called? You can go out and buy a medium duty truck or a heavy duty truck from anyone you want, and get whatever diesel motor pleases you. I'm really beginning to lose interest in this thread.

I want to special order a 3500HD with a 7.8L Duramax in it.


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

Detroitdan;548978 said:


> I think what he is saying is you can't get the 6.6L V8 Duramax motor in them. You have to go to the 7.8L I6 Duramax motor, which apparently he believes means it is not a Duramax. But, apples to apples, the Cummins in the same class with that I6 are not the 5.9L I6 little truck motor either.
> I've driven a few F-750 Fords with the old 5.9 in them. Never drove one fully loaded, but I can say empty they were pretty gutless, a lot worse than the 444 in the International 4700 series with the exact same chassis and box. And the 444 is no prize to begin with.


You really cant compare the old 5,9s with the newer 3rd gen engines. And I think initially this thread started when someone asked which truck you would put your money on in the Dodge truck section I stated my opinion and someone YAZ started with the "If you can touch it and be beat by it it must be real" I wasnt talkin racin or whose truck is faster till someone else had to go on and on and on about the Dmax being so much faster and better than the Cummins in the Dodge discussion. I didnt go over to the Chevy discussion and start flaming about how fast my Dodge is and how bad Chevys are.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

What I meant was the Cummins that is used in the class of truck you are comparing, is not the same little 5.9 that is in your pickup. So why should it matter if the Duramax is a big I6 instead of the 6.6L V8 used in the smaller trucks?
Look, if it makes you feel better, your truck is way better than mine. You have a lot more power, a lot more aftermarket accessories, bigger tires and fancier wheels. I know your truck will outrun and out-tow my old Chevy. Heck, it may even outlast it, measured in either mileage or years in service.


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

Detroitdan;549074 said:


> Umm, I don't know, maybe to avoid confusion? Maybe so people thinking about buying one wouldn't suspect it was only a little 6.6 pickup motor and go elsewhere? I don't know, but I think the GM/Isuzu diesel engine line is called Duramax. WTF difference does it make what it's called? You can go out and buy a medium duty truck or a heavy duty truck from anyone you want, and get whatever diesel motor pleases you. I'm really beginning to lose interest in this thread.
> 
> I want to special order a 3500HD with a 7.8L Duramax in it.


Well because you guys are trying to put words in GMs mouth everywhere I looked they call it a ISUZU 6H 7.8L I6 and you want to call it a Duramax when its not. Yet you slam Dodge for "Just hate to see Dodge fans, and Dodge itself, take credit for having a great engine when it's just something that bought. Probably the smartest thing they ever did, but doesn't make a better truck. Now instead of a cheap truck with a lousy motor, Dodge makes a cheap truck with a great motor." and then you GM fans want to take credit for basically Isuzu's engine design on the Duramax and then outright call the Isuzu 7.8 a Duramax as far as I and apparently GM can see is clearly an ISUZU 6H 7.8L I6 so lets call apples well apples, and oranges well oranges, and maybe ISUZU well lets try it say it with me ISUZU.


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

Detroitdan;549083 said:


> What I meant was the Cummins that is used in the class of truck you are comparing, is not the smae little 5.9 that is in your pickup. So why should it matter if the Duramax is a big I6 instead of the 6.6L V8 used in the smaller trucks?
> Look, if it makes you feel better, your truck is way better than mine. You have a lot more power, a lot more aftermarket accessories, bigger tires and fancier wheels. I know your truck will outrun and out-tow my old Chevy. Heck, it may even outlast it, measured in either mileage or years in service.


I never claimed the 5.9 CUMMINS was in BIG trucks but that I have driven Kenworths and Osh Kosh trucks with the BIG CUMMINS in them. But it was the standard in anything bigger than the Ford F550 with the Powerstroke until the new 6.7 Cummins came out now that is the standard engine in the F650 and up, or upgrade to the Cat engine as was the case for GM 6500 until they went to the ISUZU engine for the trucks that are to big for their Duramax and upgrade to the Cat.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

Booman70;549089 said:


> well lets try it say it with me ISUZU.


ISUZU

That's the company that has a partnership with GM to build some pretty awesome diesel engines together. They build them here, and I suspect that perhaps some of the people involved in the R&D are GM people, not just ISUZU people. Not like ISUZU is strictly building them for, and selling them to, GM.

Since ISUZU is getting near the top of diesel engine builders in North America, maybe you'll see them in a Dodge someday. Of course, they'll have to come up with a different name than Duramax, wouldn't want to confuse anyone.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

Booman70;549098 said:


> I never claimed the 5.9 CUMMINS was in BIG trucks


Neither did I. Nor did I say you did. What I said (twice) is that the little Cummins ISN'T in big trucks, so why compare the engine that IS in the big trucks with the Duramax that is in smaller trucks. What I was getting at is I think it's more fair to compare the 5.9L Cummins to the 6.6 Duramax, and compare the 6.7L Cummins to the 7.8 Duramax (or ISUZU if you prefer not to call it a Duramax.)


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Booman70;549059 said:


> If its a DURACRAP why wont gm say its DURACRAP on their site if you build a 5500 it says DURACRACK go to 6500 says ISUZU engine and I6 which when I drove truck meant Inline six not v8 pretty simple the english language is


Some medium duty Chevy and GMC {maybe even Isuzu too-never saw theirs} manuals call the Duramax 7.8 litre a Isuzu,others call it a Duramax---thing is,it really,really doesn't matter.It is one and the same,we are all telling you the same thing here.You are acting extremely childish here also with the Duracrap,Duracrack spellings.It's not appreciated and for your edification,yes indeed the English language is pretty simple---too bad some people mess it up.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Booman70;549089 said:


> Well because you guys are trying to put words in GMs mouth everywhere I looked they call it a ISUZU 6H 7.8L I6 and you want to call it a Duramax when its not. Yet you slam Dodge for "Just hate to see Dodge fans, and Dodge itself, take credit for having a great engine when it's just something that bought. Probably the smartest thing they ever did, but doesn't make a better truck. Now instead of a cheap truck with a lousy motor, Dodge makes a cheap truck with a great motor." and then you GM fans want to take credit for basically Isuzu's engine design on the Duramax and then outright call the Isuzu 7.8 a Duramax as far as I and apparently GM can see is clearly an ISUZU 6H 7.8L I6 so lets call apples well apples, and oranges well oranges, and maybe ISUZU well lets try it say it with me ISUZU.


Us GM fans can only take 50% credit for both the 6.6 and the 7.8 Duramaxes---Isuzu gets the other 50%.It was a joint venture---that is fact--look it up.Meanwhile,just like you already know,the Cummins first saw duty in backhoes and other off-road iron and evolved into Dodge trucks among others. All Dodge did was sign a contract with Cummins--that's it.No R+D,nada---just a contract.And like I previously stated,a Cummins is a good engine,I'm just more fond of GM and the Dmax.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Booman70;549098 said:


> I never claimed the 5.9 CUMMINS was in BIG trucks but that I have driven Kenworths and Osh Kosh trucks with the BIG CUMMINS in them. But it was the standard in anything bigger than the Ford F550 with the Powerstroke until the new 6.7 Cummins came out now that is the standard engine in the F650 and up, or upgrade to the Cat engine as was the case for GM 6500 until they went to the ISUZU engine for the trucks that are to big for their Duramax and upgrade to the Cat.


For your info---both the 7.8 Duramax and the 3126 Cat are upgrades from GM's 8.1 gasser.The Cat is NOT an upgrade from the Duramax---they both come in several HP and torque ratings.They both can be found in 6500-8500 GM trucks.I hope you're finally getting this.


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

Well for your info I guess GM doesnt know that go to their website and try to order one that way not possible!!! And well apparently you guys know more about the trucks than apparently GMC does because they say its an ISUZU so I guess you should head up to GM and tell them they dont know what their talking about. Have you guys even been to the GMC websites to see whats available or are you just bying what someone told you?


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Booman70;549267 said:


> Well for your info I guess GM doesnt know that go to their website and try to order one that way not possible!!! And well apparently you guys know more about the trucks than apparently GMC does because they say its an ISUZU so I guess you should head up to GM and tell them they dont know what their talking about. Have you guys even been to the GMC websites to see whats available or are you just bying what someone told you?


Is everyone forgetting that GM owns a major portion of Isuzu?


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

I guess GM because I've looked at their website and they don't not even once call the 7.8L a Duramax. I remember when they teamed up with Isuzu to build the Duramax V8 but no where can I find where GM calls the 7.8L a Duramax from their website "ISUZU 6H 7.8L I6" their words not mine. Apparently you guys must want to take credit for something GM doesn't. And again I point out we are in the Dodge discussion and I started out stating my opinion when I got flamed about how FAST the Duramaxs were. I didn't buy my truck to go to the track on weekends I'm usually working I bought my truck to plow and tow. Here's the link to Isuzu's 6H 7.8L diesel engine it's a inline six cylinder block made of gray iron heads made of gray iron doesn't look anything like the Duramax to me maybe you guys should do a little reading I think the Duramax was a V8 design with cast block and aluminum heads I really don't see the similarity between the two except they were designed by the same people. Just because you call something incorrectly by the wrong name doesn't make it right. Sorry!!! Heres the link if you want to be properly informed.
http://www.isuzucv.com/engines/6h_index.html
Oh! Here's GMC page for the Top Kick go to it click on 6500 see what engines are there CHECK IT OUT!!
http://www.gmc.com/mediumduty/topkick/4500/index.jsp


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

http://www.gmc.com/mediumduty/topkick/6500/specsOverview.jsp
http://www.gmc.com/mediumduty/topkick/7500/specsOverview.jsp
http://www.gmc.com/mediumduty/topkick/7500/specsOverview.jsp
http://www.gmc.com/mediumduty/topkick/8500Tandem/specsOverview.jsp


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/2008fleetshowroom/2008-F650.asp
https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/2008fleetshowroom/2008-F750.asp


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

tuney443;549126 said:


> For your info---both the 7.8 Duramax and the 3126 Cat are upgrades from GM's 8.1 gasser.The Cat is NOT an upgrade from the Duramax---they both come in several HP and torque ratings.They both can be found in 6500-8500 GM trucks.I hope you're finally getting this.


So the Cat doesn't cost more than the Isuzu? Usually they list base model $ then the next engine is a lil more $ then the next engine is a lil more $ than that. I guess you can pick whatever motor you want and it doesn't cost anymore $. And I still can't find this 7.8L Duramax see above post with gmc website links. Then I hope you finally get it!!!


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

This GM Website refers to it as a Duramax 7.8L in one place, and Isuzu in another. It also refers to the Isuzu 6.6L.

http://gm.ca/gm/english/vehicles/commercial/topk_cabs

This independant website is interesting reading about the GM/Isuzu diesel program, and refers to the Duramax 7800. Not sure about its reliability though, but I have seen the 7.8 referred to as a Duramax many, many times.

http://www.sammemmolo.com/duramax_diesel.htm

Its just a freakin' name!!!! Pretty sure they are synnonomous, especially since (as I stated above) GM is a major shareholder in Isuzu, they even produced S Trucks with an Isuzu Hombre nameplate.

And yet another... from a GM Dealership Website.... talks about Duramax 7.8L warrenty at the very bottom...

http://www.smithgm.com/new-fleet-showroom/chevrolet-kodiak-chassis-cab.htm

Do I really need to continue? Try using Google, on "7.8 Duramax" and look how many hits it has. Many are GM and GM Dealer webpages...

Its just a name.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

derekbroerse;549274 said:


> Is everyone forgetting that GM owns a major portion of Isuzu?


No,I didn't forget,but Being this thread has been in the crapper so long,I didn't think it was worth mentioning if you know what I mean.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

tuney443;549355 said:


> No,I didn't forget,but Being this thread has been in the crapper so long,I didn't think it was worth mentioning if you know what I mean.


This is a ridiculous thread.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

Hey Booman70, if GM finally were to admit that it uses ISUZU engines and that they aren't really Duramax engines, are you going to buy one?
Because I think that would be the deciding factor for me. I'm all ready to sign papers on a new 7500 with a Duramax 7.8L, but if I find out they lied and it's actually an ISUZU motor, that they chose not to formally name part of the Duramax family, then I'm cancelling my order. I'll go down to the Dodge dealer and buy a 7500 with a Cummings in it. Although I probably don't need to, since from what I've read all you really need is a 2500 with a Cummings to do the work people used to buy tractor trailers for.


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

Booman70... :crying: Ready to raise the white flag?

Here is more proof that Duramax engines even the 7.8 L was designed as joint venture. Here are some links from the past, read and weep. And.. Just look on the hood of the trucks!

Here's a start...Use your Google search and type in Duramax 7.8 liter... 

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-21099661.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS151306+05-Feb-2008+PRN20080205

From what I herd GM bought the rights to manufacture the 6.6 Duramax and the name. The IS6 is going marketed under Isuzu on the 08's. But it doesn't change the fact were they came from.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

VORTECTM_81_OOMD.tif, commerca_apo_ications.tif ---This is from a Chevy medium/heavy duty brochure----------Duramax7.8 and Isuzu 7.8---one and the same
Hmm--I see they won't open---will try again,sorry.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

On a side note, you know those W-4 cabover trucks that look EXACTLY like an ISUZU, yet have a bowtie on the front? Essentially a 1 ton chassis or slightly more, I think around a 15k GVW. I used to deal with rental box trucks a lot, and saw a few of those. They were always powered by 4 banger ISUZU diesels, just like the ones that said ISUZU on them, except for the occasional (Chevy badged) one that came with a 5.7 gasser. Those were kind of rare, but one of the strangest, and most rare ones I ever saw was an ISUZU badged cabover, with a 5.7 gas engine in it. It had a little dummy plastic cover that said ISUZU, and nowhere did it say anything about GM on the engine. But it was very obviously a GM 350. This would have been about a 99-02 model year IIRC.


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## sno commander (Oct 16, 2007)

i think that all of us dodge people are trying to say is that the engine that gm offers in their larger trucks like the 5500's and up all have the upgraded option to a INLINE 6 CYLINDER DIESEL,where as the dodge trucks already come with them from the 2500's and up. Just face the facts the cummins is a meduim duty engine with the same design, just smaller ci then the bigger cummins in the tractor trailers. Now to be fair the duramax works fine for gm pickups but is a lighter duty design than the cummins.


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

sno commander;549496 said:


> i think that all of us dodge people are trying to say is that the engine that gm offers in their larger trucks like the 5500's and up all have the upgraded option to a INLINE 6 CYLINDER DIESEL,where as the dodge trucks already come with them from the 2500's and up. Just face the facts the cummins is a meduim duty engine with the same design, just smaller ci then the bigger cummins in the tractor trailers. Now to be fair the duramax works fine for gm pickups but is a lighter duty design than the cummins.


Dodge people? No not all, two guys posting are saying GM and Duramax are Duracrap and bull stupid comments. That what got me. And your know joining the club with them tring to defend them. You are also stretching it making a statement like... " Just face the facts the cummins is a meduim duty engine with the same design, just smaller ci then the bigger cummins in the tractor trailers." Don't be so naive thinking you have the same design just because its a strait 6, it's not. Duramax a Lighter duty design? Why because it can last as long and tow more? Come on. Yes some internal components like rods are bigger in the cummins 6 "why" because it has to be, 6 cylinders are doing the work of 8.

I use some of your talk....
Now to be fair the cummins found in Dodge pickups works fine, but it all preference weather it's better because it's look like is found in tractor trailers.

The post is about what we would put our money on. I and others said just that. There a few guys that have to be immature flinging crap about other American made trucks and engines. Let's just state the facts and move on.


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## PITCH (Nov 22, 2007)

I Have Two 7500 With The 7.8 I6 D Max. Beliveve It Or Not Much Better Than My Cat C-7's. My C-15's And C-12's Are Awsome, But My C-7's Were Terrible. My 6.6 D-max's Are Awsome. Wouldn't Trade Them For Anything Just My 2 Cents


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

derekbroerse;549353 said:


> This GM Website refers to it as a Duramax 7.8L in one place, and Isuzu in another. It also refers to the Isuzu 6.6L.
> 
> http://gm.ca/gm/english/vehicles/commercial/topk_cabs
> 
> ...


Thanks for proving my point for me the only actual GM website you guys listed says the ISUZU 7.8L inline 6. I never said GM and Isuzu didnt partner up to build the Duramax v8 engines but what I said was in the 6500 -8500 they use Isuzus straight 6 all iron engine look at the websites again the only ones I see calling the 7.8L dmax is personal sites not actually GMC who builds the trucks but I guess you guys Know better than them


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## Booman70 (Feb 7, 2007)

Yaz;549505 said:


> Dodge people? No not all, two guys posting are saying GM and Duramax are Duracrap and bull stupid comments. That what got me. And your know joining the club with them tring to defend them. You are also stretching it making a statement like... " Just face the facts the cummins is a meduim duty engine with the same design, just smaller ci then the bigger cummins in the tractor trailers." Don't be so naive thinking you have the same design just because its a strait 6, it's not. Duramax a Lighter duty design? Why because it can last as long and tow more? Come on. Yes some internal components like rods are bigger in the cummins 6 "why" because it has to be, 6 cylinders are doing the work of 8.
> 
> I use some of your talk....
> Now to be fair the cummins found in Dodge pickups works fine, but it all preference weather it's better because it's look like is found in tractor trailers.
> ...


And it was you who started the flaming when you qouted me and stated that " If you can touch it and be beat by it it must be real" when I stated my opinion " that real diesels had six cylinders and were made of cast iron not recycled pepsi cans" I never mentioned any truck manufacturers in my post originally. And obviously so does the designer (Isuzu and GM) of your beloved Dmax because when the truck gets to big for it they go to the tried and true design backed by billions of miles all iron straight six was all I was sayin.You must have been feelin pretty inferior about your trucks engine to start flamin about how fast your Dmax is. Obviously we bought our trucks for different reasons. And if somewhere out there someone slaps a Dmax sticker on an Isuzu engine thats where the similarity stops totally different design engine. Look again @ the GM website again!! But if it makes you guys feel better to have to call the Isuzu medium duty engine a Dmax cause GM doesnt go ahead.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

Booman70;549547 said:


> Thanks for proving my point for me the only actual GM website you guys listed says the ISUZU 7.8L inline 6. I never said GM and Isuzu didnt partner up to build the Duramax v8 engines but what I said was in the 6500 -8500 they use Isuzus straight 6 all iron engine look at the websites again the only ones I see calling the 7.8L dmax is personal sites not actually GMC who builds the trucks but I guess you guys Know better than them


So who gives a sh1t if anyone calls the engine a Duramax or an Isuzu? Duramax is not a company that builds engines, it's the name GM and Isuzu came up with for engines they built together. 
How about this: you call the 7.8L Isuzu engine an Isuzu, each and every time the subject comes up. And the rest of us will call the 7.8L a Duramax because it's obviously a joint venture between Isuzu and GM, since Isuzu is apparently involved with the building of it, and they are going into GM trucks, just like the DURAMAX! 
Is that okay, or are you not going to rest until every last one of us has been hunted down and forced to call the 7.8L an Isuzu?


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Booman70;549547 said:


> Thanks for proving my point for me the only actual GM website you guys listed says the ISUZU 7.8L inline 6. I never said GM and Isuzu didnt partner up to build the Duramax v8 engines but what I said was in the 6500 -8500 they use Isuzus straight 6 all iron engine look at the websites again the only ones I see calling the 7.8L dmax is personal sites not actually GMC who builds the trucks but I guess you guys Know better than them


Did you actually read what I wrote or only look at the pictures?? Try again!!! THE GM WEBSITE REFERS TO IT AS AN ISUZU 7.8L IN ONE PLACE AND A DURAMAX 7.8L IN ANOTHER ON THE SAME PAGE. THEY ARE SYNONOMOUS!! (Which means, they mean the same thing!)

What is it you are arguing? GM is a big shareholder in Isuzu, to the point that they are sold at GM Dealerships... GM produces Isuzu products, Isuzu produces GM products... ISUZU IS A PART OF GM!

Its like the Chevy 327 saying "Turbo Fire" on the aircleaner back in '69, while the Canadian Pontiac which used the identical Chevy engine said "Econoflame". THEY ARE THE SAME FRIGGIN' MOTOR USED IN DIFFERENT GM VEHICLES. So they have one Duramax that is an I6, and one that is a V8. So does Cummins. What is your point? That sometimes they come with Isuzu stickers and sometimes they come with Duramax stickers?


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

Booman70;549552 said:


> And it was you who started the flaming when you qouted me and stated that " If you can touch it and be beat by it it must be real" when I stated my opinion " that real diesels had six cylinders and were made of cast iron not recycled pepsi cans" I never mentioned any truck manufacturers in my post originally. And obviously so does the designer (Isuzu and GM) of your beloved Dmax because when the truck gets to big for it they go to the tried and true design backed by billions of miles all iron straight six was all I was sayin.You must have been feelin pretty inferior about your trucks engine to start flamin about how fast your Dmax is. Obviously we bought our trucks for different reasons. And if somewhere out there someone slaps a Dmax sticker on an Isuzu engine thats where the similarity stops totally different design engine. Look again @ the GM website again!! But if it makes you guys feel better to have to call the Isuzu medium duty engine a Dmax cause GM doesnt go ahead.


You make me laugh, don't even think of twisting this your way because it is you who insulted us with your saying. I never said anything about racing you justed assumed, beat could mean lots of things, towing, hp etc, . It was a just a saying.

Remember this other saying.. assume making a ass out of you me.

Remember POS Duramax? o yeh.. Duhhh. I didn't forget. 
flamin about how fast your Dmax is, no i didn't , I guess you just know it from a friend, uncles, sister husband had one and he took you for a ride when you were little. So know your a expert! lol

When you apologize for acting like the way you did, I just might forgive you.xysport


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

I think this thread has run its course so it is now closed


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