# Ive never plowed before



## RLawnCare (Nov 12, 2015)

I come from Lawnsite. (Residentiallawncare)
For 10 years I've done residential driveways with a snowblower or a shovel. I've been happy with the outcome. Just recently I was asked from an acquaintance if I would put a bid in on a commercial lot. I cant say no... I glanced at it this morning, I will be meeting up with the facilities manager this afternoon. 
I know very little about commercial. My research has told me that I can do all upfront or a per event. I would prefer to be all upfront. 
I've hopefully attached a photo of the lot and I will have measurements later.
If someone could please help me with a full season price including walks that would be fantastic. To me it appears that I have plenty of space to push. The top side (back lot) is down hill into a low area.
I appreciate your time,
RLC


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

RLawnCare;2052833 said:


> I come from Lawnsite. (Residentiallawncare)
> For 10 years I've done residential driveways with a snowblower or a shovel. I've been happy with the outcome. Just recently I was asked from an acquaintance if I would put a bid in on a commercial lot. I cant say no... I glanced at it this morning, I will be meeting up with the facilities manager this afternoon.
> I know very little about commercial. My research has told me that I can do all upfront or a per event. I would prefer to be all upfront.
> I've hopefully attached a photo of the lot and I will have measurements later.
> ...


All up front? You can bid this job two ways. Seasonal contract, Usually your payments will start in Nov. or Dec to Aprill on a 30 day basis. You will get 5 or 6 payments that amounts to your bid.

As you know you can bid this per trip. Which you would invoice every 30 days. Looks like a nice job. What equipment do you plan on using? What about the liability's the company is going to request. I have heard of guys getting there full amount for season on a driveway not Commercial.

Good Luck


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

What equipment do you have? How big is the lot (how many acres)? Does it need salt?

From the sounds of if you are no where close to ready to take on this job. People here won't just give you a bid, if you tell us what you think the price would be it gives people something to work with to try and help you.

But like I said, you're probably not ready.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Also we need to know where your located or how many snow events you get if your going with a seasonal price.


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

I tried looking up the building but didnt get the right one, its a large company, so I'm betting trucks will be in and out of there alot too.


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## RLawnCare (Nov 12, 2015)

You are correct I am not ready for anything like this. I do have to start somewhere. 
I currently have a half ton truck. If I get this Id be looking for a 3/4. I dont own a plow. I have 12 snowblowers, 2 of them are 22hp 40 & 46 inches wide and hydro driven. Salting wont be an issue. I am insured but I would need to update my policy to contain plowing.
I know I have more research to do as far as price goes. I don't expect anyone to tell me its worth X but I am looking for an idea of where to start. Having no experience in this I cant say how long it would take me. If I say 5K a month am I out of line? sidewalks, salt, 1inch trigger.
Thank you,
RLC


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## RLawnCare (Nov 12, 2015)

jhall22guitar;2052869 said:



> I tried looking up the building but didnt get the right one, its a large company, so I'm betting trucks will be in and out of there alot too.


What little I know is the manager has no clue of what she is doing. They have 25 employees, a show floor, and lots of trucks.


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## RLawnCare (Nov 12, 2015)

LapeerLandscape;2052864 said:


> Also we need to know where your located or how many snow events you get if your going with a seasonal price.


Minneapolis, 70 inches average, 16 snowfalls of 1 inch or greater


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

RLawnCare;2052882 said:


> You are correct I am not ready for anything like this. I do have to start somewhere.
> I currently have a half ton truck. If I get this Id be looking for a 3/4. I dont own a plow. I have 12 snowblowers, 2 of them are 22hp 40 & 46 inches wide and hydro driven. Salting wont be an issue. I am insured but I would need to update my policy to contain plowing.
> I know I have more research to do as far as price goes. I don't expect anyone to tell me its worth X but I am looking for an idea of where to start. Having no experience in this I cant say how long it would take me. If I say 5K a month am I out of line? sidewalks, salt, 1inch trigger.
> Thank you,
> RLC


$5K a month all depends on how many snow events you get and how much total snow, some places with lake affect it snows almost everyday and so on.


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

RLawnCare;2052882 said:


> You are correct I am not ready for anything like this. I do have to start somewhere.
> I currently have a half ton truck. If I get this Id be looking for a 3/4. I dont own a plow. I have 12 snowblowers, 2 of them are 22hp 40 & 46 inches wide and hydro driven. Salting wont be an issue. I am insured but I would need to update my policy to contain plowing.
> I know I have more research to do as far as price goes. I don't expect anyone to tell me its worth X but I am looking for an idea of where to start. Having no experience in this I cant say how long it would take me. If I say 5K a month am I out of line? sidewalks, salt, 1inch trigger.
> Thank you,
> RLC


Can you post an address so we can look it up? On an open lot a truck with 8ft plow should easily plow an acre and hour, or more.

The snowblowers won't mean anything here other than sidewalks. If I were you and I was looking at getting into plowing, I would start plowing residentials and small open commercial lots.

If you get a new truck your looking at 40K, plus 6-8K for a plow, insurance will probably go up $3k+

What is your average snowfall per year, how many events on average, how many salting events? What is your backup plan if your truck breaks down?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

RLawnCare;2052882 said:


> You are correct I am not ready for anything like this. I do have to start somewhere.
> I currently have a half ton truck. If I get this Id be looking for a 3/4. I dont own a plow. I have 12 snowblowers, 2 of them are 22hp 40 & 46 inches wide and hydro driven. Salting wont be an issue. I am insured but I would need to update my policy to contain plowing.
> I know I have more research to do as far as price goes. I don't expect anyone to tell me its worth X but I am looking for an idea of where to start. Having no experience in this I cant say how long it would take me. If I say 5K a month am I out of line? sidewalks, salt, 1inch trigger.
> Thank you,
> RLC


The lot looks to be about 1.5 acres <> with a 1" trigger would be a $200-225 per push plus salt in my area.

For seasonal pricing, average snowfall, average storms and average amounts per storm need to be taken into account. 
$5K a month is very high for a lot like that in my area.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RLawnCare;2052889 said:


> Minneapolis, 70 inches average, 16 snowfalls of 1 inch or greater


You just might want to do a little more checking, fella. Thumbs Up

From a quick Google search, you're somewhere between 15 and 20" too high for an "average".

No idea on how many snowfalls of an inch or more, but I'm going to/two/too/2 guess you're/your/ur high/hi there/their/they're too/to/two/2.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jhall22guitar;2052892 said:


> Can you post an address so we can look it up? On an open lot a truck with 8ft plow should easily plow an acre and hour, or more.


Why? The picture is quite obvious.

And he ain't going to be that efficient being the first time. And with a smaller truck.


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## RLawnCare (Nov 12, 2015)

http://www.currentresults.com/Weath...nowfall-totals-snow-accumulation-averages.php

This site says average to be 55 inches. Yes I was a little off I thought Id error on the side of caution. cover my own ass
Typical average days of snowfalls are:
15.7 days 1 inch+
5 3+
2 5+
0.4 10+
I have had winters with 2 12+ snowfalls
I anticipate having to make 2 visits. 1 to open or maintain and 1 to clean up.

As far as a back up I have a friend that plows and Id be okay with giving him the job but I hate giving work away. I've got the time to do it myself. I don't have experience. 
thanks, 
RLC


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

At $5000. a month times 5 months is $25,000. divided by 15 snow events, that's $1666. per push. I'd say that's a lot, time to refigure. I think Buff's inline with the per push price, maybe up your number of events to 20 and divide by the number of months billed.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Don't forget to put a blizzard clause in the contract. Last year I had a customer at the beginning of the season. He only wanted his lot done 1 time per event. I would not agree to his terms. We had a blizzard and received almost 20 inches. The lot look like crap. What if it drifts make sure you cover all of the basics. We don't want you to get burned.
I'm glad I dont do the property anymore


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

You are equipped for the walks. Figure your walks expense. Add Buffs $250.00 to that. Figure how much salt you need and what you need to spread it. What ever you come up with times that by your average snow fall maybe a few extra. 

No you do not want to give to your buddy if you got nothing going to make money. Maybe compensate your buddy to help you till you know where to put the snow and teach you how to angle the blade, stack etc.

I'm thinking $6500.00 for the season. I don't know you could add a little maybe.
Don't take my advise 100% I get help myself I'm always way high but getting better. Invest in a heavy 3/4 with a productive plow and mix the 1/2 ton in.


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

Mark Oomkes;2052901 said:


> Why? The picture is quite obvious.
> 
> And he ain't going to be that efficient being the first time. And with a smaller truck.


I'll be honest, I don't have the skill set to look at a photo right away and get price (Im not good at telling the size of parking lots this way, trying to get better, so Findlotsize helps me.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

jhall22guitar;2053117 said:


> I'll be honest, I don't have the skill set to look at a photo right away and get price (Im not good at telling the size of parking lots this way, trying to get better, so Findlotsize helps me.


These guys no the size of a average parking spot and roadway, Island etc. Time it will take to do it in there head. Most been doing this a long time.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

jhall22guitar;2053117 said:


> I'll be honest, I don't have the skill set to look at a photo right away and get price (Im not good at telling the size of parking lots this way, trying to get better, so Findlotsize helps me.


Even findlotsize isnt always that helpful. Take this lot, its probably about 1.5 acres but I have seen 2.5 acre lots or even larger that are easier to plow. So you can take your sq ft formula and throw it right out the window because of the islands loading docks and just the way its broke up. So you need to just be able to just look at it and break it down into sections. How long to do the right side, how long for the back and then the right.


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## RLawnCare (Nov 12, 2015)

LapeerLandscape;2053185 said:


> Even findlotsize isnt always that helpful. Take this lot, its probably about 1.5 acres but I have seen 2.5 acre lots or even larger that are easier to plow. So you can take your sq ft formula and throw it right out the window because of the islands loading docks and just the way its broke up. So you need to just be able to just look at it and break it down into sections. How long to do the right side, how long for the back and then the right.


You are right this is not a simple lot. Especially not having the experience. 
I meet with them today and... they literally are more clueless than I am. They do not have a facilities manager. Previously they were leasing 2 buildings and the costs of property management was built in. 
I brought up that it is important to take care of the lawn now. Its 4 maybe 5 inches and plenty of leaves. Then deer in headlights... I asked have you ever raked a leaves into a pile and left it for weeks, and when you clean it up its not happy looking? yeah?? Well that's kind of an example of what could happen to your yard if you have tall grass with leaves on it. 
So ill do a fall cleanup and trim for $500... jaw hit the floor. I explained that this is actually a very good price.

Anyway this is most likely not a great idea. I don't have the experience which I would live with. But this could end up being very stressful.

thank you for all your help
RLC


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

RLawnCare;2053253 said:


> You are right this is not a simple lot. Especially not having the experience.
> I meet with them today and... they literally are more clueless than I am. They do not have a facilities manager. Previously they were leasing 2 buildings and the costs of property management was built in.
> I brought up that it is important to take care of the lawn now. Its 4 maybe 5 inches and plenty of leaves. Then deer in headlights... I asked have you ever raked a leaves into a pile and left it for weeks, and when you clean it up its not happy looking? yeah?? Well that's kind of an example of what could happen to your yard if you have tall grass with leaves on it.
> So ill do a fall cleanup and trim for $500... jaw hit the floor. I explained that this is actually a very good price.
> ...


That lot is not that difficult especially if you dont have a dozen other lots to open up with the truck. It sounds like you have good common sense and ambition if you want to attempt it. You will need a truck with a plow though.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

RLawnCare;2053253 said:


> You are right this is not a simple lot. Especially not having the experience.
> I meet with them today and... they literally are more clueless than I am. They do not have a facilities manager. Previously they were leasing 2 buildings and the costs of property management was built in.
> I brought up that it is important to take care of the lawn now. Its 4 maybe 5 inches and plenty of leaves. Then deer in headlights... I asked have you ever raked a leaves into a pile and left it for weeks, and when you clean it up its not happy looking? yeah?? Well that's kind of an example of what could happen to your yard if you have tall grass with leaves on it.
> So ill do a fall cleanup and trim for $500... jaw hit the floor. I explained that this is actually a very good price.
> ...


That is good that you tried to sell yourself on the lawn service, but they were looking for snow service. Somebody is going to have to move snow there. I have seen easier but looks like a nice job to me. Its not that hard to clean around islands.

Turn your buddy onto it that you said you could give it to. He will probably be more than happy to service them. Put a price in together you take the walks and your buddy does the plowing and salting.


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## IDST (Nov 16, 2011)

RLawnCare;2053253 said:


> You are right this is not a simple lot. Especially not having the experience.
> I meet with them today and... they literally are more clueless than I am. They do not have a facilities manager. Previously they were leasing 2 buildings and the costs of property management was built in.
> I brought up that it is important to take care of the lawn now. Its 4 maybe 5 inches and plenty of leaves. Then deer in headlights... I asked have you ever raked a leaves into a pile and left it for weeks, and when you clean it up its not happy looking? yeah?? Well that's kind of an example of what could happen to your yard if you have tall grass with leaves on it.
> So ill do a fall cleanup and trim for $500... jaw hit the floor. I explained that this is actually a very good price.
> ...


PM me and I can give you some help if you would like. You are right you need to start somewhere but you don't want to drown on your first attempt. I started here in MPLS in 2010 and barely survived. Learned may do's and don'ts that year.


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## TKLAWN (Jan 20, 2008)

If I was you I would go for it.

Quick google search shows the company has bucks and other locations, they could probably give you plenty more work.

Buy a descent 3/4 ton truck and plow, what's the worst that could happen??

Oh and $200-$250 should be in the range, 18x$225 sidewalks $75? Salt $275

Roughly $8,000 all inclusive divided by 5 months $1,650


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

RLawnCare;2052886 said:


> What little I know is the manager has no clue of what she is doing. They have 25 employees, a show floor, and lots of trucks.


They probably don't have a clue or play like they don't. I think your selling yourself short. You are already in business and seem intelligent. You got a lot of good advise and one member told you to PM him. Which is a nice guy and straight forward.

I know you were thinking $5k per month to small. The threads posted are on the money for this job. I'm older guy and I still get help on the big jobs at least opinions. This is a nice start for you on the snow service of your biz and equipped for the walks.

Invest in your biz and find you a nice 3/4 with a plow and go for it. I like the job and if I was there would be happy to have it. Keep us posted whatever you decide.


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