# driveways or commercial?



## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

Which do you perfer the most plowing and why? I do both and perfer commercial but I like doing driveways also because it's quick easy money.


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## blizzardsnow (Feb 3, 2009)

Commercial partly because that is what we are equipped for. I would personally rather deal with 20 commercial clients than 60 resi. And I have never gotten stuck in the parking lot at a retail center whereas people's driveways that drift can ruin a productive morning. Generally I think it depends on how you are equipped.


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## BossPlowMaster (Aug 10, 2013)

I take care of a lot more residential places than I do commercial... what I think commercial has going for it is the fact that you can sit behind a truck more often. I have a 24 hr. old folks home and other than the constant maintenance on the property I love how it keeps me busy. I think it is easier to take care of commercial properties because you don't have to deal with 50 customers giving you crap all the time. Salting commercial is a money maker... but I like residentials because with the equipment I have... it takes little to no time and you can make an upwards of $200 an hour if you are good.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

I have both but more driveways. I make more from the driveways so I like them better. But as was said drifting can be real fun sometimes. I have gotten stuck in the middle of a driveway before.


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## jvm81 (Jan 4, 2005)

We do both. I run utility tractors with front mount blowers for all side walk/driveways. Bc with Kage pusher, bc with bc blower, and trucks and plows. 2 sanders . I do both enjoy the break up of clients


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Mix of both, but very important to have a second day of non resident driveways to do. I like the non residents best. No pressure, no cars in the way, no packed snow, easy peezy.


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## Meezer (Apr 3, 2010)

94gt331;1676443 said:


> Which do you perfer the most plowing and why? I do both and perfer commercial but I like doing driveways also because it's quick easy money.


We have both. I prefer driveways because it is quick & easy money.payup


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Commercial There more money to be made Driveways is most of the time a 1 visit after storm is over.
Commercial lots I'll visit 3-4 times during a storm plus there could be 2 salting visits

Driveways I have, I do there Commercial lots other wise I wouldn't even have any


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

I prefer driveways. I'd rather deal with a homeowner than some corporate office. There is more flexibility to getting them done, too.


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## lawnboy2121 (Jan 25, 2007)

All commercial less headaches


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## Eggie329 (Nov 25, 2009)

The only residentials I take are people who have used me for years and are loyal. The last few years there's been a huge increase in the people stuffing a single stage snow blower in the back of a 1993 Chevy Cavalier and charging $5 for a driveway which has run most of the legitimate businesses out of residentials. I prefer commercial anyway because once you're there, you don't have to get back on the road for a while and can just stay in the truck. There's also more maneuvering room and less hopping from address to address. This year, I'll only be taking residentials on the side if I can soak em' because they're screwed!


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## stone74 (Nov 15, 2013)

I totally agree here in Winnipeg everyone and there dog does snow clearing in the winter, what keeps me going are all my loyal year round clients. I run 2 trucks with crews and laugh when I see the guy unloading his snowblower out of the back of his van or SUV (must smell great in there) I have stayed away from commercial for now, lots of money to be made doing the on call after the snow falls, they pay me way more than my client base does and they are happy to do so.


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## Roper7 (Sep 26, 2013)

Commercial for me. I enjoy getting out early while everyone else is still in bed. No traffic, empty lots, low triggers, and nobody complaining that you woke them up with your plow. Get to go fast, fast equals money. And the best is seeing how much more business my customers get during the day than others, because our lots are so clean and easy for people to park and get in and out.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

lawnboy2121;1676590 said:


> All commercial less headaches


Completely agree.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

Commercial, tried driveways for a few years and most likely won't do them again


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## CashinH&P (Jan 14, 2012)

Did 30 driveways my first year, add two parking lots last year, I cut back to 10 driveways (lawn care customers) and added 15 smaller commercial lots this year. I prefer doing parking lots over driveways.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Antlerart06;1676559 said:


> Commercial There more money to be made Driveways is most of the time a 1 visit after storm is over.
> Commercial lots I'll visit 3-4 times during a storm plus there could be 2 salting visits
> 
> Driveways I have, I do there Commercial lots other wise I wouldn't even have any


Same here Thumbs Up


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## CAT 245ME (Sep 10, 2006)

stone74;1676666 said:


> I run 2 trucks with crews and laugh when I see the guy unloading his snowblower out of the back of his van or SUV (must smell great in there)


A few years ago you would have never seen that here, but now you can't drive down a street without running into them. It must drive the city plow operators nuts having them blocking un plowed streets.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

Residential, atleast until I get the equipment to handle commercial work, then things may change


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## Meezer (Apr 3, 2010)

CAT 245ME;1677630 said:


> . It must drive the city plow operators nuts having them blocking un plowed streets.


That & them blowing all the snow onto the roadways


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

SnowFakers;1677637 said:


> Residential, atleast until I get the equipment to handle commercial work, then things may change


Thats where I am at too. We'll see what happens.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

My commercials are the pain in my butt. The powers in charge are micro-managers. Iron fist control of when I plow. Never left up to me. If not for the good money involved, I would go seek out more weekender driveways.
I have 15 right now that never come up to these homes in winter at all. Never a car in my way, never any packed snow, no hassles at all. Just drop an invoice in the mail at the first of the month for the previous month's services.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Only Commercial.

The only driveways I do are for emergency calls.


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## cubplower (Oct 22, 2009)

I prefer commercial. I do both but the prissy homeowners around me are always calling asking if you are still coming as soon as the snow starts falling. That or they don't want you to plow until theres a foot and half on the ground at their 1.5 million dollar house because they don't want to spend the money


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

Been doing commercial for many years, 4 years ago when I picked up my big HOA, which I just did a 3 year contract with for blowing instead of plowing. Now we're doing a church with about 4-5 acres of parking, a working "farm" for autistic men and boys with a mile of roads, 2 acres of lots and currently only 4 driveways. A pair of private roads that serve some $750,000 homes. And we're steadily adding some "higher end" driveways. I think we are up to around 40 or 50. The combination of my F350 with the 14' Ebling and 8'2" Boss V-XT working with our New Holland TL100A with a Normand 92-280 Inverted blower is quite a combo for drives. In some areas where the drives are one after another, the F350 just pulls the snow out into the road (it's private so no worries there) then I roll right behind him with the tractor/blower and blow it away. While commercial pays good, the residential is better.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

excav8ter;1677921 said:


> Been doing commercial for many years, 4 years ago when I picked up my big HOA, which I just did a 3 year contract with for blowing instead of plowing. Now we're doing a church with about 4-5 acres of parking, a working "farm" for autistic men and boys with a mile of roads, 2 acres of lots and currently only 4 driveways. A pair of private roads that serve some $750,000 homes. And we're steadily adding some "higher end" driveways. I think we are up to around 40 or 50. The combination of my F350 with the 14' Ebling and 8'2" Boss V-XT working with our New Holland TL100A with a Normand 92-280 Inverted blower is quite a combo for drives. In some areas where the drives are one after another, the F350 just pulls the snow out into the road (it's private so no worries there) then I roll right behind him with the tractor/blower and blow it away. While commercial pays good, the residential is better.


This is where I think a lot of people get confused as to why residential is better. You are set up almost perfectly for it and have an efficient system, where as many guys starting out deciding what to try first just have an 8ft straight blade on there truck.


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## CAT 245ME (Sep 10, 2006)

skorum03;1677940 said:


> This is where I think a lot of people get confused as to why residential is better. You are set up almost perfectly for it and have an efficient system, where as many guys starting out deciding what to try first just have an 8ft straight blade on there truck.


I was the same way, started with half tons with 7'6 straight blades clearing mostly drives and a few apartment buildings, the trucks were not very productive for me. Now I have a Dodge 2500 ECSB, 2" lift and 285's, A Boss 8'2 V with wings making it 10' and an 8' Daniels pull plow. I still mostly do city driveways along with one church, one apartment and a few large driveways outside the city. But even though this truck is large compared to what others are using in my area, it is by far more productive. In an hour I can normally clear between 8 to 10 and I charge $30 & up per driveway unless it's a small straight ahead push then those are $25. And a lot of my drives are spread apart.

I would still rather do commercial though but I do real well with driveway's, so I can't complain.


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

skorum03;1677940 said:


> This is where I think a lot of people get confused as to why residential is better. You are set up almost perfectly for it and have an efficient system, where as many guys starting out deciding what to try first just have an 8ft straight blade on there truck.


Do you think my post will confuse people? We are trying to get to 2 routes. One commercial route for the F350 and and a tractor/blower, and another route for a tractor/blower to do alone. Eventually, the large HOA will sustain 2 tractor/blowers, and a 3rd tractor will be in another area we are starting to service.

Too bad driveways out here go so cheap..... $30+ per time would be killer!


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

I enjoy both very well and think there are perks about both. I hope to build alittle better commercial route next year for the trucks, and get just 1 guy to handle the driveways, I wish I had a tractor blower combo, would be awesome for drives. Hopefully someday.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Buswell Forest;1676553 said:


> Mix of both, but very important to have a second day of non resident driveways to do. I like the non residents best. No pressure, no cars in the way, no packed snow, easy peezy.


can't be too important to have a second day of driveways to do or I'm misunderstanding what your saying. my snow route is generally done in a days time tops. usually sooner and I keep it that why by limiting how much business I take on each winter.



Antlerart06;1676559 said:


> Commercial There more money to be made Driveways is most of the time a 1 visit after storm is over.
> Commercial lots I'll visit 3-4 times during a storm plus there could be 2 salting visits
> 
> Driveways I have, I do there Commercial lots other wise I wouldn't even have any


depends on where you live and the type of clients you have. in a 6" snow fall I visit each residential client twice. I won't push my truck to the limit of trying to push 6" at once. I'm using a half ton truck.

all that being said I enjoy both of them. they both have pros and cons.

for me the commercial was fun because it's more time behind the truck and less time behind a snow blower or shovel. it also gets me out more during snow cause I try and plow commercial lots every 2 to 3 inches.

the residentials are quickly done and not a pain usually to find a place to pile the snow. most of mine aren't in a real hurry to be done so I can take my time but I'm left sitting at home until the smaller storms are done before I can start them. but getting out of the truck to snow blow sidewalks or shovel steps is nice cause it stretches my legs.

i think some of it depends in the equipment you use, how you run your snow removal operation and the type of clients you have.

like I said for me commercial lots are plowed every 2-3 inches in most cases. residentials wait until 2-4 inches and the storm is done or if 6 inches or more are coming the half way point or 4 inches depending on what's coming.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

yardguy28;1679082 said:


> can't be too important to have a second day of driveways to do or I'm misunderstanding what your saying. my snow route is generally done in a days time tops. usually sooner and I keep it that why by limiting how much business I take on each winter.


The second day of driveways are all non-residents. Second homes on the lake. As long as I get them done in a day or two, they don't care. So, they allow me to have 2x the work that I would be able to handle otherwise. I will add as many second day driveways as I can, easy money.

Mind you, I could get all of my accounts done in one marathon 20+ hour run..but there's no urgent need..


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Buswell Forest;1679143 said:


> The second day of driveways are all non-residents. Second homes on the lake. As long as I get them done in a day or two, they don't care. So, they allow me to have 2x the work that I would be able to handle otherwise. I will add as many second day driveways as I can, easy money.
> 
> Mind you, I could get all of my accounts done in one marathon 20+ hour run..but there's no urgent need..


I don't do the marathons mind you.

when I say I can get all my accounts done in a day or less I'm talking 12 hours max. I won't do those marathons for anyone for any amount of money. if the storm were that heavy my clients all know its work 12 hours then home for some sleep and back out after rested.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

I wouldn't move to commercial then yardguy, most commercial places don't want to lose tens of thousands in business because you've plowed your daily limit and need to go home..........


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

don't worry I have no intention of going full commercial. but also keep in mind the location I live in rarely sees snow storms much over 4 inches. 

most snows are anywhere from 2-4 inches with maybe a few 6-8 inch storm for the season. 

I usually get through my route in 12 hours or less, 1 stop at all residentials and 1 or 2 at the commercial lot I do. 

and if we do see large amounts like 8 inches or more our city shuts down so there isn't a work a marathon until it's done need. commercial lots would get plowed first and residentials after that when the plow guy gets there. 

I don't know of anyone in my city who plows much over 12 hours straight. all the guys with crews rotate out every 12 hours and the solo guys only take on enough work that they can get done in 12 hours or less.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

I have groomed snowmobile trails in the Tucker Terra for longer than 12 hours...it sucked...but it got done.


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

Buswell Forest;1679555 said:


> I have groomed snowmobile trails in the Tucker Terra for longer than 12 hours...it sucked...but it got done.


I bet that can get boring. I've seen many of the guys that groom the U.P when we would ride at night....I bet I can get kinda spooky out there at 2am in total darkness....


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

well I'm not in the snow removal business cause I need the money. any money I get from snow removal is icing on the cake. my lawn maintenance business makes me the money I need. I could skip snow removal all together. 

so that said I'm not gonna work past my normal limit and deprive myself of any sleep just for some icing on the cake. 

I offer it to regular clients of mine to give me one more service I can do for them so they don't have to hire a seperate person for snow. but only if it fits into my regular schedule and hours.


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## Pa Teeny (Sep 15, 2006)

I do both as commercial is a great salt money maker and homeowners are a quick 20-25$.....JUST BE CHOOSY on homeowners as they if they drop me once and try to get me back I make them up 50%....PITA factor.

Also I like retired people as they are financially set and usually are smart enough to stay home in really bad weather...

I once relied on a big property...not good lost it .....was concerned ...but it worked out..


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## V_Scapes (Jan 1, 2011)

Big commercial is much easier and less stressful.
Ive got 2 churches and one has a daycare and the other is also a private school so it can get alittle hairy. Driveways in general are a major pain but as others said you can make alot of money on them. I keep my resi's cause I have nothing else going on in the winter so might as well. plus i take most of my money from resis and put it into equipment in the spring. 
Another nice thing about doing commercial and resi is when you get events where you dont need to be at the resis (salting events) your still making money throwing salt at the commercials.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

excav8ter;1679694 said:


> I bet that can get boring. I've seen many of the guys that groom the U.P when we would ride at night....I bet I can get kinda spooky out there at 2am in total darkness....


Every person who rides a snowmobile should be required to take an on-line grooming course. Just so they understand what the mechanics of it are, and what is involved. Nothing makes me madder than grooming the railbed and leaving a perfect ribbon behind me, then having a bunch of idiots on 150hp sleds do everything possible to destroy it before it sets up firm...I have had them follow me around spinning it all to hel! 40' behind me.
It's actually a lot of fun, IMO, grooming. And you learn the trails INTIMATELY. You can go 2x faster because you know every rock, every stump, every turn...


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

This is our fourth year. In terms of hours worked per storm, I'd say it's 75-25, residential- commercial. Being young, we have to work our way up the ladder. That being said, I think a balanced approach works best, as well as a balanced pricing approach (good mix of per-time and pre-pay).


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

excav8ter;1679694 said:


> I bet that can get boring. I've seen many of the guys that groom the U.P when we would ride at night....I bet I can get kinda spooky out there at 2am in total darkness....


Do they groom them smooth up there. I seen what they look like in summer time. Lots fun in summer time. One over by Cliff Mine rail road bed was a blast in summer with med speed.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

I decided today that I hate parking lots because I hate salting. I want the snow and ice to melt instantly...but it doesn't. I hate loading my hopper. My lots are my guaranteed income, but driveways were so much more fun.


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## DSBI (Nov 22, 2013)

JTVLandscaping;1680505 said:


> I decided today that I hate parking lots because I hate salting. I want the snow and ice to melt instantly...but it doesn't. I hate loading my hopper. My lots are my guaranteed income, but driveways were so much more fun.


Salting is where the money is at in commercial. You can salt 7 nights in a week and not get a plowable storm. Just a dusting, and then a refreeze can mean many thousands of dollars for an average few truck operation.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

skorum03;1677940 said:


> This is where I think a lot of people get confused as to why residential is better. You are set up almost perfectly for it and have an efficient system, where as many guys starting out deciding what to try first just have an 8ft straight blade on there truck.


whats wrong with the 8ft straight plow?


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

DSBI;1680670 said:


> Salting is where the money is at in commercial. You can salt 7 nights in a week and not get a plowable storm. Just a dusting, and then a refreeze can mean many thousands of dollars for an average few truck operation.


+1

This is our first year doing lot salting. We've only got a couple of clients that need it, but it's pretty easy money.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

DSBI;1680670 said:


> Salting is where the money is at in commercial. You can salt 7 nights in a week and not get a plowable storm. Just a dusting, and then a refreeze can mean many thousands of dollars for an average few truck operation.


if they let you salt that much.

the lot I didn't last year only wanted salted if half an inch or more fell and even then it was only part of there lot they wanted done.

so a dusting meant nothing.

salting IS a pain in the ass.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

I include the salt in the seasonal price, so the less the better. I'm alright when there's enough to plow off, I seem like I go through less salt that way. It's a mental thing really though, I don't really need any more salt I just put more down because I don't see pavement.


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## Nero (Aug 10, 2009)

I like driveways the best, I still do a few parking lots, but after 34 years of plowing it can get really boring working on the same lot for hours on end. I love to move around. The long circle driveway’s take time, but pay well. When you think about how many driveways you could get out of a parking lot, I think driveways if done correctly can be more profitable.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

yardguy28;1681446 said:


> if they let you salt that much.
> 
> the lot I didn't last year only wanted salted if half an inch or more fell and even then it was only part of there lot they wanted done.
> 
> ...


 Salting is a pain, Well I rather salt and not plow. I can salt my route in 3 hrs 1 V box and go back to bed vs. Plowing with8-10hrs with 5 rigs



Nero;1681488 said:


> I like driveways the best, I still do a few parking lots, but after 34 years of plowing it can get really boring working on the same lot for hours on end. I love to move around. The long circle driveway's take time, but pay well. When you think about how many driveways you could get out of a parking lot, I think driveways if done correctly can be more profitable.


If you can find a lot of drives, sure you could have more profit with less overhead. I use to do a lot drives back in the 80s and 90s because wasn't hardly anybody doing it.
Now everybody in there dog is doing it and mostly they are people looking for extra cash to pay bills. In my market drives suck for a profit unless you want do them for 10-20 but if you have no overhead 10-20 is good money

Let me ask you this. When you get 1'' or less does them drives pay well?
I know my Lots pay well with salt.

I can understand some lots does get boring.


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## Nero (Aug 10, 2009)

Where I am In River Hills, the homes fair market value averages million plus. I have one client that has a fair market home valued at 3.7 million. I looked him up and his property taxes are $82.000 annually. We all have long driveways.


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## Nero (Aug 10, 2009)

I do all my lawn care in River Hills as well. We have a minimum requirement of 5 acres per lot to build a home.
My age 54 I see it is better to do quality before quantity to make a better income.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Nero;1681743 said:


> Where I am In River Hills, the homes fair market value averages million plus. I have one client that has a fair market home valued at 3.7 million. I looked him up and his property taxes are $82.000 annually. We all have long driveways.


give me example distance and $$ and time frame
Long driveway to some isn't always long to others 
Being on 5 acres the drive cant be to long


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## Nero (Aug 10, 2009)

Average $65.00 to $75.00 drive


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

JTVLandscaping;1681478 said:


> I include the salt in the seasonal price, so the less the better. I'm alright when there's enough to plow off, I seem like I go through less salt that way. It's a mental thing really though, I don't really need any more salt I just put more down because I don't see pavement.


the commercial lot i did last season i would honestly plow at least part of the lot if there was 1 inch or more then i would salt what was to be salted.



Antlerart06;1681686 said:



> Salting is a pain, Well I rather salt and not plow. I can salt my route in 3 hrs 1 V box and go back to bed vs. Plowing with8-10hrs with 5 rigs
> 
> If you can find a lot of drives, sure you could have more profit with less overhead. I use to do a lot drives back in the 80s and 90s because wasn't hardly anybody doing it.
> Now everybody in there dog is doing it and mostly they are people looking for extra cash to pay bills. In my market drives suck for a profit unless you want do them for 10-20 but if you have no overhead 10-20 is good money
> ...


i'd rather plow than salt but i suppose it depends on what your salting with. currently i will only do small commercial lots that don't even require a tailgate spread.

filling the walkbehind spreader is a pain the butt.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Nero;1681856 said:


> Average $65.00 to $75.00 drive


ok and that for what size of a drive avg. time frame cleaning

What are you using to clean with


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

yardguy28;1682006 said:


> the commercial lot i did last season i would honestly plow at least part of the lot if there was 1 inch or more then i would salt what was to be salted.
> 
> i'd rather plow than salt but i suppose it depends on what your salting with. currently i will only do small commercial lots that don't even require a tailgate spread.
> 
> filling the walkbehind spreader is a pain the butt.


You doing that by choice or thats only thing, you have to salt with, a walk behind


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## Nero (Aug 10, 2009)

A few hundred feet, average. (Not all are the same)
Time? Maybe 15min. This can change depending on the snow accumulations. 
I still have a few parking lots that I have been doing for the last 34 years. But like I said, that kind of work is really boring for me. Like working in a factory doing the same thing over & over…. and at the same place! 
Years ago I had 10hrs of parking lots. I sold most of my lots. I just kept the ones I like.


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## snowcommander (Dec 2, 2012)

I prefer industrial over anything, but I like it all. We run several trucks just for industrial jobs, then we have a couple that run around and do all the fast food places/residential work. I'd say the residential is the least stressful, the commercial is "funnest", but the industrial generates the most income in the long run.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Antlerart06;1682136 said:


> You doing that by choice or thats only thing, you have to salt with, a walk behind


both.

since it was my first and only commercial lot I wasn't gonna dump the money on a tailgate spreader. and with the size of the lot if that would remain my only commercial lot a tailgate spreader isn't worth it.

it's a small lot that takes 13 bags to salt the whole lot but still. filling the spreader 13 times is not fun to me.

it's a good thing I didn't dump money into a tailgate spreader b/c this season all I have are residential.


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