# How Much Did You Make This Year??



## JCplowing (Dec 28, 2007)

Well for me on the connecticut coast i think its safe to say the snow year is over, i almost made enough to payoff my plow in this one year! i think i totaled up to be 3800.00, but im still owed about 1500 of that, not bad for one year considering we had 5 total storms! and the 04 ram 1500 is running like a raped ape!


----------



## BlueRam2500 (Jan 15, 2005)

I made around $5900 this year in NJ, and I think the winter is just about over here as well. Can't see snow falling when its 50* outside.....


----------



## niederhauser la (Feb 10, 2005)

I bring in about 5k per push and we have pushed about 15 times give or take so far. Not including salt and sand and moving and hauling off piles.


----------



## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

payup
Why does it matter if it's made with a dodge truck? lol

I think you may have posted in the wrong area!


----------



## chazmanian (Oct 17, 2007)

*My Lil' Chevy that cost me all of $5000.00 in October of 07 has Billed out 16K in snow removal since without a single failure.....Starts in the coldest of cold weather and just keeps pushin'!*









*
Fabbed in a western pro-flow 2 so I can spread sand and salt....$750.00 off Craigslist and works like a charm.*








*
Now wearing wings so I can push even more snow and make more Moolah!!*









*And the end result of what has been a decent first year....A DODGE CUMMINS RAM!!! What I had wanted to start off the year with but was a little skeered of the business still.......Hoping to double my business next season.*


----------



## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

With the luck you and I have had with a good old GM 1/2 truck, why switch to a dodge? 

Whatever, at least you didn't buy a Tundra.lol I hope your new truck is as good to you.


----------



## dmontgomery (Oct 3, 2003)

I made around $15K....gross....


----------



## 2003ctd (Sep 4, 2007)

enough to buy a new truck..Picking up my new 2008 2500 Cummins next week!! We've got another 8 inches supposedly coming this weekend!! Cha Ching!


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

24 cases of beer, 3 60's of Crown, 2 40's of rum and 16 cartons of cigs. Oh and a push lawn mower.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

JD Dave;545073 said:


> 24 cases of beer, 3 60's of Crown, 2 40's of rum and 16 cartons of cigs. Oh and a push lawn mower.


JD, they wanted to know what you made, not what you went through.


----------



## chazmanian (Oct 17, 2007)

Yaz;544972 said:


> With the luck you and I have had with a good old GM 1/2 truck, why switch to a dodge?
> 
> Whatever, at least you didn't buy a Tundra.lol I hope your new truck is as good to you.


I dunno...I want a bigger sander and a bigger blade? I will be hanging on to the Lil' Chevy though as well!!

I actually will use the Dodge more in my Striping company as we travel long distances to paint....

Plus the Duramax has IFS. I like the thought of a medium duty truck engine pushing around a solid front axle. Reassuring maybe?


----------



## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

I am just sub. I made about 5k under table. My real job wont allow me the time to get real accounts. So I am happy with some extra loot that pays the truck payments


----------



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

BigDave12768;545304 said:


> I am just sub. I made about 5k under table. My real job wont allow me the time to get real accounts. So I am happy with some extra loot that pays the truck payments


You mean "as a sub" right? You still are going to claim it a income right? lol. We thought thats what you meant.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

cet;545085 said:


> JD, they wanted to know what you made, not what you went through.


I guess I misunderstood the question. LOL


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

BigDave12768;545304 said:


> I am just sub. I made about 5k under table. My real job wont allow me the time to get real accounts. So I am happy with some extra loot that pays the truck payments


You mean your an Employee.......

a "sub" or subcontractor is a contractor that is hired by the general contractor...

IF you were a contractor it would be above the table because you would have bills to pay like, insurance and other debts your business would have and of course you would be paying your taxes too...


----------



## ABES (Jun 10, 2007)

SnoFarmer;545359 said:


> You mean your an Employee.......
> 
> a "sub" or subcontractor is a contractor that is hired by the general contractor...
> 
> IF you were a contractor it would be above the table because you would have bills to pay like, insurance and other debts your business would have and of course you would be paying your taxes too...


lol snofarmer you should just have that as your sig i have seen you type that so many times...


----------



## sublime68charge (Dec 28, 2007)

I mad $50.00 Cash in Hand, 
almost enough to cover the GAS for the ATV for the season.

Though the 3 Drives that I due I get year around garage storage space in so I guess it all works out in the end.

sublime out.


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

ABES;545364 said:


> lol snofarmer you should just have that as your sig i have seen you type that so many times...


lol... not a bad idea.....

Ever notice that everyone is a "sub"-contractor or a contractor and that their are no employees?

There is nothing wrong with being an employee........


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Back on topic..

How could you know how much you have made all ready?

A. Have you billed out for the last time for the season.(I haven't)
B. Have you been paid.
C. Are we talking gross or net.
D. Is this before the maintenance costs,taxes, pay roll for this season?
E. Why is this in the truck forum?... 
Because you want to know who made what when driving a Dodge?

I have an idea what we made but until I get paid and pay all of our debts, we will not have a # for you.


----------



## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

SnoFarmer;545380 said:


> lol... not a bad idea.....
> 
> Ever notice that everyone is a "sub"-contractor or a contractor and that their are no employees?
> There is nothing wrong with being an employee........


I think of an employee as someone who just drives for a GC with the GC's equipment... A sub is someone who works for a GC with their own equipment... And who cares that its in the Dodge forum,. maybe he just likes us "Dodge" guys better...

And not to hijack this thread, I did not make nearly enough that I wanted to. Only 2 plowable storms ... My goal was $5000 but I fell way short... I at least paid for my new E-60, a water pump installation, my insurance for my spare pickup (the plow truck), power sterring pump, and fuel for the year so basically about 24 hours worth of work got me free use of my pick up for the year and some maintenance items replaced... I would have loved to squeeze out a new flat screen for my bedroom, It aint summer yet, she is still mounted and ready to go....


----------



## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

LOL, what all you guys made this year, is what I spent of Diesel fuel alone!


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

jjklongisland;545400 said:


> I think of an employee as someone who just drives for a GC with the GC's equipment... A sub is someone who works for a GC with their own equipment... And who cares that its in the Dodge forum,. maybe he just likes us "Dodge" guys better...
> 
> ....


Have you ever taken the time to read any of the fallow up posts to your posts before?

You can use your own equipment and still be an employee.

Read this..http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html

then get back to me as it should change your deffination of what a employee, subcontractor, contractor is.


----------



## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

SnoFarmer;545395 said:


> Back on topic..
> 
> How could you know how much you have made all ready?
> 
> ...


A. Yes I told him what he owed me
B. Yes he paid payup
C. Gross
D. Yes it was before. But no break downs and only an upgrade this season to a fish stix
E. Other trucks can push snow besides Dodges?

Ok Truck payments over 4 months 2k. Insurance 400 and Fuel plowing was about 500. But my truck is a daily driver. So I look at this way. I bought the plow for truck 2 years. I paid the plow off this year. Last year in New England :crying:


----------



## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

Snow Farmer, I can only agree... All of us pay taxes, be it a sub or GC. The mentality that you get to drive a free truck for the winter is pointless. Nothing is free! If I looked at it that way, after all expenses are paid, I get to drive around in several of my trucks and wheel loaders for free. Gee, and I even have money left over for beer?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;545073 said:


> 24 cases of beer, 3 60's of Crown, 2 40's of rum and 16 cartons of cigs. Oh and a push lawn mower.


LMAO, Dave.

PS Can I come work for you? I could only afford 20 cases of beer. 1 60 of Crown and no rum.



BigDave12768;545304 said:


> I am just sub. I made about 5k under table. My real job wont allow me the time to get real accounts. So I am happy with some extra loot that pays the truck payments


Silly us, never mind those rules of this forum that don't allow law breaking to be discussed. Course, if you're screwing with the IRS, guess violating some rules on a forum are no big deal.



SnoFarmer;545395 said:


> Back on topic..
> 
> How could you know how much you have made all ready?
> 
> ...


Good grief, why all the details? This isn't rocket science, you know. Just hang that plow and go push some snow and get paid under the table, who needs to bother with all that non-important stuff.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

creativedesigns;545401 said:


> LOL, what all you guys made this year, is what I spent of Diesel fuel alone!


Oh how I wish, I was a high roller like you! LOL


----------



## stcroixjoe (Feb 10, 2006)

not enough!!!!


----------



## Sydenstricker Landscaping (Dec 17, 2006)

I made like 4000 this season:crying: My seasonals absolutely killed me this year. Time to revamp my entire snowplowing gig for 08/09. This winter put me in the poor house. I want to try and sell more salting. That is where alot of guys made the money. I think the economy this year was the worst for snow. When I was 17 and 18 I could turn 20k-30k no problem doing snow. I guess I am doing something wrong now,lol


----------



## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

We have way to many salt included contracts.... they were great for the last two years, but it finally caught up with us.


----------



## Mike S (Feb 11, 2007)

When I get my last check I will be able to buy a 30 pack of Busch Lite! Beat that guys!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Sydenstricker Landscaping (Dec 17, 2006)

Well I could buy a 30 pack of PBR with my last check or a 24 pack of budlight Or just a fifth of jack and call it a day,lol


----------



## Mike S (Feb 11, 2007)

I geuss you win. Can I have one of your bud lights?


----------



## Sydenstricker Landscaping (Dec 17, 2006)

Sure you can. I can fedex it overnight and it may stay cold, lmao


----------



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

After all is said and done, paying out sidewalk guys, plowers, salt, fuel and tons of headaches, enough or not enough to seriously consider keeping just a few accounts, sub out just one of our guys and do sidewalks myself. After billing out 5 digits many times over I think we ended up with a low to mid 4 digi number. Yeah is it really worth it?


----------



## Mike S (Feb 11, 2007)

I hear that!


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Wait a minute, hold the phone, we're supposed to be making money doing this?

Seriously, I think I may have netted a couple million. Drinks are on me.


----------



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;545629 said:


> Wait a minute, hold the phone, we're supposed to be making money doing this?
> 
> Seriously, I think I may have netted a couple million. Drinks are on me.


Yeah money? whats that? It was the tale of one company this year! This company must have grown 75% I swear! It was amazing to see one company become the major player in our area and the once was major player kind fall off the map. When do I get my piece of the pie?


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;545629 said:


> Wait a minute, hold the phone, we're supposed to be making money doing this?
> 
> Seriously, I think I may have netted a couple million. Drinks are on me.


I guess your the high roller then LOL and I'll take a Crown and Coke, make it a double.


----------



## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

if there is one thing we can all agree on it is that....this year will turn us all into drinkers lol.....

some to enjoy the profits, some that lost thier A$$ on seasonal's and then me that got no... NO measurable snowfall, 

sure we had some salt's, but this year's entire route bill for the whole year did not equal up to one plow for my largest acount from last year. and with the housing "recession" it is hard to say what i will gross or net this year in dirt-work either?

just 100 miles straigt north of me JAY BROWN got a whoping 150% avg snowfall and then 100 miles south of me they had a record Ice,

oh'well maybe next year? 

PJ

oh....and origional poster. YOU ARE NOT A SUB


----------



## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

JD Dave;545518 said:


> Oh how I wish, I was a high roller like you! LOL


Jd, I would state a true fact, but then it would just cause a big stirr up with others!


----------



## kashman (Jan 13, 2004)

same thing i make every week work or no work 500 . but i get a good size bones every year at good tax rate ask your accountant about this


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Brian Young;545633 said:


> Yeah money? whats that? It was the tale of one company this year! This company must have grown 75% I swear! It was amazing to see one company become the major player in our area and the once was major player kind fall off the map. When do I get my piece of the pie?


Funny, I seem to see a pattern of this happening every couple years in your neck of the woods. Sounds like it's the better part of wisdom to not become the major player and then have a major downfall.

PS Are we talking about a family owned business?



JD Dave;545650 said:


> I guess your the high roller then LOL and I'll take a Crown and Coke, make it a double.


OK, it's on the way.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I have one broker that uses a backhoe to plow 3 locations and he does most of my loader work. I have paid him $22,250. Last year he made less them $6,000. It snowed a bit this year.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

creativedesigns;545684 said:


> Jd, I would state a true fact, but then it would just cause a big stirr up with others!


Don't be shy, we know you like to stir the pot.


----------



## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

creativedesigns;545401 said:


> LOL, what all you guys made this year, is what I spent of Diesel fuel alone!


In Dec 07, 1 week of diesel, $5000+. Still trying to get books to balance and catch up with billing and collecting $$. Very busy is an understatement. 420cm/168" and counting. Weatheridiot says 6 more weeks of winter


----------



## snowplowchick (Feb 22, 2008)

20K on fuel alone, 20K in salt

good year though!


----------



## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

BlackIrish;545813 said:


> In Dec 07, 1 week of diesel, $5000+. Still trying to get books to balance and catch up with billing and collecting $$. Very busy is an understatement. 420cm/168" and counting. Weatheridiot says 6 more weeks of winter


LOL Black...I didn't know u were sky high! lol I hope we get some milder temp within the next week to get ready for SPRINGGGG! :redbounce


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 1, 2008)

Enough to put a plow on my truck and some corner strobes.


----------



## F550SNOWAY (Mar 7, 2008)

After Paying For Salt, Fuel, Insurance, Some Other Man Hours, My partner and I figure about $48K before we do the 50/50 split. We set aside $15K for two new V-Boxes and Two New Lighting Packages for the trucks (going to LED's)


----------



## plowman4life (Jan 16, 2008)

creativedesigns;545401 said:


> LOL, what all you guys made this year, is what I spent of Diesel fuel alone!


thats what i was thinking.


----------



## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

I made a difference in my community. I made things happen each and every time it snowed.


----------



## Duncan90si (Feb 16, 2007)

I grossed a little over 50K. Not too bad for my first winter working for myself.


----------



## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

had a slow year. DEC was good and it looks like march might make up for Jan and Feb grossed $712,000 and net $193,000 before depreciation which is probably another $50000 so call it $140,000 minus 30% tax rate leaves me with $98,000. Not a bad year but we work our a$$ off for it. this is the toughest industry out there. Can never take vacation, on call 24/7, must predict weather better than a meteorologist,work days on end, brave -30' weather, drive in the most dangerous conditions, deal with pita customers and employees, and all the other hassle the go with snow, that being said I love it, but I sure as he11 not gonna do it for a couple cases of beer.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

snowman55;547663 said:


> had a slow year. DEC was good and it looks like march might make up for Jan and Feb grossed $712,000 and net $193,000 before depreciation which is probably another $50000 so call it $140,000 minus 30% tax rate leaves me with $98,000. Not a bad year but we work our a$$ off for it. this is the toughest industry out there. Can never take vacation, on call 24/7, must predict weather better than a meteorologist,work days on end, brave -30' weather, drive in the most dangerous conditions, deal with pita customers and employees, and all the other hassle the go with snow, that being said I love it, but I sure as he11 not gonna do it for a couple cases of beer.


What's wrong with beer?


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

That is a ton of depreciation. I like your #'s, makes it worth while being in the business.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;547721 said:


> What's wrong with beer?


My bottles are never big enough. 

I was wondering if anybody was going to post some real numbers.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;547746 said:


> My bottles are never big enough.
> 
> I was wondering if anybody was going to post some real numbers.


Snowman55 looks pretty good to me. I think guys making more then that might just keep it to themselve's. You can start if you want Mark. LOL

That's why there are 24 in a case!


----------



## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

like I said not a bad year. but we only have 38" this year. We provide an important service and deserve to be compensated for it. If all the ham and eggers charged accordingly the entire industry would be more profitable. what those #s dont show is all the nites of no sleep watching the weather, and physical effects of working long shifts and odd hours. (try to get a plumber or electrician to your site at 1am) they wont show for any amount of money. we need to stop selling our selves short. $5000 for a season of this work thats insane you could get a part time job delivering pizza and make that much.


----------



## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

While I won't post numbers, I'll agree with snowman 55. Any decent sized snow removal company in this business to make a profit knows about how much of a pita this industry can be. Fifteen years and I'm still can't commit to a specific date and take a vacation in winter. Short little weekends when you see a break in the weather. Hmmm, ya wives and girlfriends just love the romance snow removal brings on! Ohhh, and my favorite part of all: when you have no snow for three weeks but don't do anything because you think it might snow the day you leave. 
Now, I secretly love to run our wheel loaders and we make most of our profits in winter versus summer work. So, the money is the trade off for me. For $5000.00 I'd rather not even get out of bed, schedule crews, maintain equipment, of deal with collecting.


----------



## shadow (Dec 27, 2007)

Lets see....Local paper messing up ad info during heaviest/biggest storm of the season :angryresult-no calls)....plow tab bending/braking multiple times because of hard ice :angryresult-have to quite plowing to fix)....surprise snow storms with no notice from weatherman :angryresult-no ads put in paper)....I think I grossed around $360.:realmad: Truck was averaging 4.1 mpg with a so-called "tuned" holly 4bbl so most all of it went to pay for gas and ads. 

I plan on welding some 5/8 angle/box tubing this summer to finally put an end to the tab braking all the dang time.


----------



## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

snowman55;547663 said:


> had a slow year. DEC was good and it looks like march might make up for Jan and Feb grossed $712,000 and net $193,000 before depreciation which is probably another $50000 so call it $140,000 minus 30% tax rate leaves me with $98,000. Not a bad year but we work our a$$ off for it. this is the toughest industry out there. Can never take vacation, on call 24/7, must predict weather better than a meteorologist,work days on end, brave -30' weather, drive in the most dangerous conditions, deal with pita customers and employees, and all the other hassle the go with snow, that being said I love it, but I sure as he11 not gonna do it for a couple cases of beer.


Snowman, what are you spending $500,000 on? Our numbers are similar, but my net percentage is considerably higher than yours.......Furthermore, depreciation comes out of the $700k as the company.....not your net salary.


----------



## plowman4life (Jan 16, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;547746 said:


> My bottles are never big enough.
> 
> I was wondering if anybody was going to post some real numbers.


you want real numbers.

$312,574. thats the total of all our diesel fuel bills for this winter. and people wonder why we charge so much to plow a driveway.

all together from just plowing. this winter we pocketed 126K which is pretty bad. if we had more snow it would have been a lot more. 2 years ago we pocketed 3 times that. but we actually had a good ammount of snow.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

plowman4life;547872 said:


> you want real numbers.
> 
> $312,574. thats the total of all our diesel fuel bills for this winter. and people wonder why we charge so much to plow a driveway.
> 
> all together from just plowing. this winter we pocketed 126K which is pretty bad. if we had more snow it would have been a lot more. 2 years ago we pocketed 3 times that. but we actually had a good ammount of snow.


You spent over 312K on Fuel and only made 126K? Just confirming your numbers.


----------



## plowman4life (Jan 16, 2008)

JD Dave;547876 said:


> You spent over 312K on Fuel and only made 126K? Just confirming your numbers.


yea. would have made more. but fuel killed us. and yea after taxes and paying all our employees and subs and paying off the balance on the loader we bought last year. we only pocketed 126K

i didnt mention the loader part up above my fault.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

How many pieces of equipment would it take to go through that kind of fuel?


----------



## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

Gicon net is net profit for my co. not my salary. salary is an expense. depriciation is also an expense to be subtracted from gross to give you the net. however that is calculated by my acct so it is not currently on my books so I quessed what it will be. Also my expenses include but not limited to 7 full time employees working in my shop on equipment and ready at all times to service accts, 1 full time office manager, 1 full time sales/ cust rep, 1 full time production manager.


----------



## plowman4life (Jan 16, 2008)

cet;547886 said:


> How many pieces of equipment would it take to go through that kind of fuel?


takes a lot of equipment.

all together between pickups, dumps and equipment. totals 45 vehicals that need diesel fuel. we have another 4 pickups that use gasoline also small tools that use gas and stuff. but when eveything is used daily fuel prices add up quick.


----------



## Scottscape (Nov 27, 2005)

plowman4life;547883 said:


> yea. would have made more. but fuel killed us. and yea after taxes and paying all our employees and subs and paying off the balance on the loader we bought last year. we only pocketed 126K
> 
> i didnt mention the loader part up above my fault.


spend 300k in fuel and made 1k profit? Doesnt seem right. maybe the other way around


----------



## plowman4life (Jan 16, 2008)

Scottscape;548091 said:


> spend 300k in fuel and made 1k profit? Doesnt seem right. maybe the other way around


hows that not seem right. do you know how much a cat 980H costs. its like a 500K machine. we only pocketed 126K after we payed off the balance on it.


----------



## A Man (Dec 24, 2007)

plowman4life;548006 said:


> takes a lot of equipment.
> 
> all together between pickups, dumps and equipment. totals 45 vehicals that need diesel fuel. we have another 4 pickups that use gasoline also small tools that use gas and stuff. but when eveything is used daily fuel prices add up quick.


Those are some interesting numbers. I'm fairly new to this business still and I have less than a 1/4 the equipment you have, but I always thought you were suppose to get on average 30-50k per piece of equipment. At 45 pieces running conservative numbers gross would be around 1.35million????? Does that sound right to anyone else? Just curious, not looking to start anything here.


----------



## snowplowchick (Feb 22, 2008)

It's impossible to tell how much "real money" is made you have no idea if the person has taken the amount before or after taxes, before or after capital expenditures, before or after drawings, etc. etc. 

I think making 120+ K in your pocket is awesome, but that is just me, I guess.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

plowman4life;547883 said:


> yea. would have made more. but fuel killed us. and yea after taxes and paying all our employees and subs and paying off the balance on the loader we bought last year. we only pocketed 126K
> 
> i didnt mention the loader part up above my fault.


The loader makes a big difference. How many hours did you average/machine this winter? and how many inches of snow did you get?


----------



## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

creativedesigns;545980 said:


> LOL Black...I didn't know u were sky high! lol I hope we get some milder temp within the next week to get ready for SPRINGGGG! :redbounce


 shhh I'm undercover. Did ya get tractors yet? Or are you going all commercial?


----------



## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

Gross was just over $150,000.... Net $37.14 rofl


----------



## apik1 (Mar 25, 2007)

After fuel, ins., repairs, 16 mailboxes, 1 light pole, just over 50K


----------



## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

apik1;548794 said:


> After fuel, ins., repairs, 16 mailboxes, 1 light pole, just over 50K


1 light pole... rofl I had a driver knock one down last year... almost $10,000 for it... of course it had to be a custom made unit for a NFL stadium and not a plain one....


----------



## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

Wow Metro, what an idiot that driver must have been! Its huge, how could they not see it! Not to mention it looks like it was daylight outside when it happened!!!! lol


----------



## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

PremierLand;549015 said:


> Wow Metro, what an idiot that driver must have been! Its huge, how could they not see it! Not to mention it looks like it was daylight outside when it happened!!!! lol


I'm not saying anything....... :x


----------

