# Forecast says 1'-3' wet, are you plowing?



## RonWin (Nov 17, 2011)

I live in NY and the forecast says that tonight/tmrw morn. there will be a 1'-3' wet chance of snow. It hasn't snow muched thus far and the average temperatures for the week are 40 degrees. This meaning that the snow will probably melt after thursday morning snow storm. I want to make some money but do not want to step on any toes; Should I being plowing if indeed i get over 2' wet. The trigger for me is 2' wet + but I guess I kinda feeling guilty about doing it if I know the snows gonna melt regardless. What do you guys think? ( im not in any written contracts just verbal agreement to plow at 2' wet or more).


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## Pushin 2 Please (Dec 15, 2009)

I think you mean 1-2"? If not you better get out there and plow 1'-2'..... I would plow all my lots after 2 inches weather its gonna melt or not. Most people want there lots cleared before they come into work.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Depending on when it snows,you might not even get any on the lots/drives. Then been pushing snow all week for Fri but we'll see.


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## RonWin (Nov 17, 2011)

just wondered if plowing people out at 2' wet, which is the trigger they wanted, will get them mad if the warm weather is going to sweep thru and melt all the labor anyway. I do want to make money but like i said I dont want to step on toes.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

You do realize you are using the wrong punctuation mark to distinguish between inches and feet correct? 

Or are you saying your trigger is 2 feet of snow?


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## 7_below (Dec 9, 2009)

Oh boy.....


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

First things first, You should have a contract. Also You should have a Seasonal Rate. NOT a per push basis! 

If you go per push you will either get screwed or Lucky. By screwed i mean what if it snows 5 times???
By Lucky I mean, If it snows 30 times you COULD GET $XXXXX... Dollars! But if that happens good luck getting paid! Dont get me wrong! Some will pay, just not many!

2nd thing is: Its all up to the Owners discretion of the company/ yours. 
Personally if its a inch of slush and a Inch of snow.... its really 50-50. Now if its 3" We're out FOR SURE. 

It really depends... Commercial I salt! No matter how much and What it is. 
Driveways are where it gets tricky!


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

Plow man Foster;1371342 said:


> First things first, You should have a contract. Also You should have a Seasonal Rate. NOT a per push basis!





7_below;1371308 said:


> Oh boy.....


7_below, I believe your post was one too early.

I believe Foster's comment is part of what got a different thread closed.

Foster, do you always go to McDonalds? Wendy's? BK? Pick one, never use another?


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## RonWin (Nov 17, 2011)

Thanks for the info plow man foster. Definately somthing i need to modify with my clients.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

I have some contacts doesnt matter if there a inch snow they want something done fix the problem
I only charge per snow fall event never had a problem getting paid Here if I charge before the snow has fallen I be out buisness 
I know every area is different Good luck


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

RonWin;1371387 said:


> Thanks for the info plow man foster. Definately somthing i need to modify with my clients.


You may or may not find customers receptive to seasonal billing. It is very regional.

I am not saying don't try it, just don't be surprised if your customers don't want it.


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

dfd9;1371408 said:


> You may or may not find customers receptive to seasonal billing. It is very regional.
> 
> I am not saying don't try it, just don't be surprised if your customers don't want it.


haha They're not Receptive to it! Most actually hate it. I guess you're right every region is different. But over here ALOT of people (residential drives) just sign the contract that says for $XXX you will have your driveway plowed an unlimited amount of times for the 3-4month period. 
Im michigan we can JUST about estimate the amount of times that we will push i can prive my residential drives accordingly. And if they have a problem with it i either show them my little sheet that clearly Shows them how much they COULD possibly pay While on a "per push" basis. Vs. my "Winter Season Rate"

That USED to work pretty well until the Market crashed... now they go find a lowballer who will charge $75 to plow an unlimited amounts of times for the whole 3-4 (or more) month period.


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## H&HPropertyMait (Oct 17, 2011)

Plow man Foster;1371342 said:


> First things first, You should have a contract. Also You should have a Seasonal Rate. NOT a per push basis!
> 
> If you go per push you will either get screwed or Lucky. By screwed i mean what if it snows 5 times???
> By Lucky I mean, If it snows 30 times you COULD GET $XXXXX... Dollars! But if that happens good luck getting paid! Dont get me wrong! Some will pay, just not many!


You realize that a seasonal is just as risky. they pay an agreed price. we'll say based on 25 pushes. you hope it snows 0 times and count your profits, customer hopes in snows 50 times and we eat it.


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## H&HPropertyMait (Oct 17, 2011)

RonWin;1371224 said:


> I live in NY and the forecast says that tonight/tmrw morn. there will be a 1'-3' wet chance of snow. It hasn't snow muched thus far and the average temperatures for the week are 40 degrees. This meaning that the snow will probably melt after thursday morning snow storm. I want to make some money but do not want to step on any toes; Should I being plowing if indeed i get over 2' wet. The trigger for me is 2' wet + but I guess I kinda feeling guilty about doing it if I know the snows gonna melt regardless. What do you guys think? ( im not in any written contracts just verbal agreement to plow at 2' wet or more).


Learn 1"-2" INCHES not 1'-2' FEET

if its 2" of anything i'm out plowing


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Me personally, I would be out if it was snowing enough to drop 2-3". At this point the ground is still probably going to melt off about an inch. A lot depends on how fast it comes down too. I probably wouldn't plow any residential accounts. A nice 2-3" storm would be a nice training day for my guys.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

H&HPropertyMait;1371429 said:


> You realize that a seasonal is just as risky. they pay an agreed price. we'll say based on 25 pushes. you hope it snows 0 times and count your profits, customer hopes in snows 50 times and we eat it.


I work by myself.So seasonal are good for me,if you have to pay other guys to plow then you need a mix to offset to much snow. But most of your costs are fixed. Only big variable is fuel cost.


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## H&HPropertyMait (Oct 17, 2011)

grandview;1371442 said:


> I work by myself.So seasonal are good for me,if you have to pay other guys to plow then you need a mix to offset to much snow. But most of your costs are fixed. Only big variable is fuel cost.


Ok now that makes sense. All of our driveways are seasonal and a few large commercials are, the smaller commercial ones are per push and are zero tolerance, so i can make a pretty penny if it snows all day long.


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

H&HPropertyMait;1371429 said:


> You realize that a seasonal is just as risky. they pay an agreed price. we'll say based on 25 pushes. you hope it snows 0 times and count your profits, customer hopes in snows 50 times and we eat it.


Good point. i've never really had a problem with not having enough money after the season. I guess thats why i dont focus all of my money on residentials. Especially in this day and age.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

RonWin;1371224 said:


> Should I being plowing if indeed i get over 2' wet. The trigger for me is 2' wet + but I guess I kinda feeling guilty about doing it if I know the snows gonna melt regardless. What do you guys think? ( im not in any written contracts just verbal agreement to plow at 2' wet or more).


Mr. Win, your first problem is you don't have a written contract....only verbal. 

For the sake of argument let's assume the verbal agreement with your client is good, and he intends on holding up his end of the bargain...

Are you planning on holding up to your end of the bargain plowing the site at 2", or are you just going to stand by and hope it melts?


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## H&HPropertyMait (Oct 17, 2011)

Plow man Foster;1371446 said:


> Good point. i've never really had a problem with not having enough money after the season. I guess thats why i dont focus all of my money on residentials. Especially in this day and age.


It's never been a problem for us either... knock on wood right!


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Guys that are seasonal will wait,guys who are per push will go out and plow.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

Plow man Foster;1371426 said:


> haha They're not Receptive to it! Most actually hate it. I guess you're right every region is different. But over here ALOT of people (residential drives) just sign the contract that says for $XXX you will have your driveway plowed an unlimited amount of times for the 3-4month period.
> Im michigan we can JUST about estimate the amount of times that we will push i can prive my residential drives accordingly. And if they have a problem with it i either show them my little sheet that clearly Shows them how much they COULD possibly pay While on a "per push" basis. Vs. my "Winter Season Rate"
> 
> That USED to work pretty well until the Market crashed... now they go find a lowballer who will charge $75 to plow an unlimited amounts of times for the whole 3-4 (or more) month period.


I understand the differences very well.

I also understand that in certain parts of the country if you tell your customers you will _only _perform seasonal contracts, you won't be in business. So to tell him there is only one way and only one way of doing things is nothing short of ignorant. Like I said, the exact same thing that got the other thread locked. That's why I asked if you only eat at one fast food joint. Why are there numerous types of plows or mowers or clothing or anything.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

if theres snow on the ground (what difference it makes if its wet or dry snow kind of has me baffled but oh well,) and its enough for the trigger on the account im plowing. You have to remember yeah its supposed to get warm during the day, but that high temperature isnt going to be until about 12 or 1 pm, much later than your account will need to be opened, so you get out there and plow it. The only real factor that the 40* temperature is going to play on you is that you will need to use less salt since temps will be hovering around the freezing mark all day. 

If it starts piling up you start pushing regardless.


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## RonWin (Nov 17, 2011)

I would never set up shop plowing for people that I didnt know without a contract. The people I'm plowing for our neighbors that need it done and friends. Verbal agreements are fine with what I've got atm.


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## HEStufrthnnails (Nov 20, 2009)

bristolturf;1371543 said:


> if theres snow on the ground (what difference it makes if its wet or dry snow kind of has me baffled but oh well,) and its enough for the trigger on the account im plowing. You have to remember yeah its supposed to get warm during the day, but that high temperature isnt going to be until about 12 or 1 pm, much later than your account will need to be opened, so you get out there and plow it. The only real factor that the 40* temperature is going to play on you is that you will need to use less salt since temps will be hovering around the freezing mark all day.
> 
> If it starts piling up you start pushing regardless.


I think Bristolturf answered it best. Also,this is where knowing your customers expectations really counts. And if to error, always error in caution( in our case ;safety),rather than procrastination.


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## rywnygc (Feb 20, 2010)

HEStufrthnnails;1372247 said:


> I think Bristolturf answered it best. Also,this is where knowing your customers expectations really counts. And if to error, always error in caution( in our case ;safety),rather than procrastination.


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_to_err_on_the_side_of_caution_or_to_error_on_the_side_of_caution

yep.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

RonWin;1371589 said:


> I would never set up shop plowing for people that I didnt know without a contract. The people I'm plowing for our neighbors that need it done and friends. Verbal agreements are fine with what I've got atm.


No worries. Over time you'll realize the issues working for friends, family and neighbors with verbal agreements.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

RonWin;1371224 said:


> I live in NY and the forecast says that tonight/tmrw morn. there will be a 1'-3' wet chance of snow. It hasn't snow muched thus far and the average temperatures for the week are 40 degrees. This meaning that the snow will probably melt after thursday morning snow storm. I want to make some money but do not want to step on any toes; Should I being plowing if indeed i get over 2' wet. The trigger for me is 2' wet + but I guess I kinda feeling guilty about doing it if I know the snows gonna melt regardless. What do you guys think? ( im not in any written contracts just verbal agreement to plow at 2' wet or more).


DON'T feel guilty. If you ever get called out on the carpet,just tell your client with a straight face that the snow will also melt come July.In other words,despite what the Weatherman predicts,you are not a fortune teller and nobody knows for sure if said snow will melt----ORRRRRR------ freeze on the lot from your inaction.So ALWAYS go on the side of safety and plow it.If the client can't understand that concept,drop them.And get some written contracts out this week,fellow N.Yorker.


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## RonWin (Nov 17, 2011)

I like your style tuney. Im definately going to just plow their places so that they dont get after me for complaining that the driveway they hesitated on is now frozen. Plus more green in my pocket.


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## 7_below (Dec 9, 2009)

It's funny because in this situation if you don't go out, the seasonal customers wonder where your at. And then if you do go out and it melts soon after, the people on perplow wonder why you showed up. I've had clients with both agreements bring this up in the past. But like tuney said, it could freeze up and be a problem. This is where "getting to know your clients needs" come into play.


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## gwhalen3 (Jan 15, 2010)

Yea this storm was touch and go. Some spots got two inches and some 4-5 and a couple 1. I skipped about half my route because of half bare driveways but would've been alot nicer with a scrape. Plus the inch of soft ground/mud you had to plow into. Crappy first of the year plows are always grin and bear it.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

TCLA;1372349 said:


> No worries. Over time you'll realize the issues working for friends, family and neighbors with verbal agreements.


Ummmm, you said it!


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## rywnygc (Feb 20, 2010)

Well up here in Western New York, out fearless.....I mean clueless weatherman Don Paul, hasbeen swearing for two days, that it would start snowing between 10 and midnight tonight. So I just woke up. Turned on the news, and now it's not coming till tomorrow.


THANK YOU DON PAUL! Now I get to stay up all night. Oh well, who wants to play MW3 or DC Universe? lol


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

I find with per push, treat it like you're the customer. I probably wouldn't want someone to come push an inch of slop off knowing it was going to melt, but if it's going to freeze later...absolutely. I don't really have a trigger anymore. I sell myself, they like me and run off my judgement. I sold my lots on "zero tollerance" finally. All my residentials are verbal agreement, but it works for me because almost all my residentials have been with me at least 5 years, so we have an established relationship. If I have to wait at all for payment this year, I drop them next year and fill the spot. I've found that the best way to keep this relationship was not jumping right at 2" and plowing if it's not really necessary. Did I lose out today because I didn't plow, yeah, but is it that honesty that's gotten me paid for all theses years and essentially guarantee me money in the coming years? I think so. Seasonal contracts sprinkled in the mix have definately helped though. Now I don't need to squeak out a push to pay the month's insurance bill, the money's coming with or without snow. Just the way I do business, what works for me may not work for anyone else.


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## RonWin (Nov 17, 2011)

realistically how many driveways can u plow out (residential) as a one man crew. This also meaning that your taking into aco**** the people who want to be out by a certain hour of the morning in time to make work.


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

RonWin;1373865 said:


> realistically how many driveways can u plow out (residential) as a one man crew. This also meaning that your taking into aco**** the people who want to be out by a certain hour of the morning in time to make work.


This just about sums it up!



lawnboy82;18901 said:


> how far apart?
> a lot of backblading?
> walkways?
> cleaning away from parked cars?
> ...





John DiMartino;18895 said:


> how big is the average drive,and how far apart.What is your average snow fall amount,there are lots of questions you need to answer first,but ill tell you this-if you have a spare truck-it seems like your truck will never break-buti f you have no backup-your truck will be breaking every other storm.A backup is an insurance policy-I wont be without.I have a 2 truck run,in most storms,but if one breaks,oe we get the big one-I have a 3rd to use as needed.





GeoffD;18894 said:


> There are so many things that determine the amount of driveways per truck.
> 
> I have 3 residential plow trucks. That only do residential drives. Many are people with horses, and must have barn yards and stuff plowed out.
> 
> ...





little green guy;18896 said:


> The company that I work for does about 100 drives with 3 trucks plus a bunch of other trucks on municipal stuff. All 3 driveway trucks are 3/4 ton pickups
> 
> Truck 1- 45 medium to large drivways, 1 meduim church, 1 small comercial lot and 1 realy good driver
> 
> ...





northeast;18897 said:


> I plow a small strip mall,then 32 residential drives.
> it takes me about 16 hrs.to complete my work.
> next year I will do only commercial!!!! and elimenate
> 32 headaches. I know of a guy in my service area that
> ...


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

rlee;1373306 said:


> Well up here in Western New York, out fearless.....I mean clueless weatherman Don Paul, hasbeen swearing for two days, that it would start snowing between 10 and midnight tonight. So I just woke up. Turned on the news, and now it's not coming till tomorrow.
> 
> THANK YOU DON PAUL! Now I get to stay up all night. Oh well, who wants to play MW3 or DC Universe? lol


And still waiting!


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## UpstateServices (Nov 28, 2011)

*Today's Teaser*

So Thats it, an inch of slop? Big Bad Buffalo and no snow worth mentioning still.

Don Paul is batting Zero!

Besides the aviation weather forecast (Much more reliable) pretty much called it.

40's next week....

Love those seasonal contracts!

If the Temp. dips tonight all bets are off though, the warm lake could set us up for a busy overnight.

Have new toys to try!!!!


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## MikeRi24 (Dec 21, 2007)

if you're contract, be it written or verbal, is 3", then 3" is 3" whether its fluffy powder or concrete. If you just told the people you were gonna plow, and didnt give a trigger amount, well then live and learn from your mistakes and have fun plowing every day.



UpstateServices;1373961 said:


> So Thats it, an inch of slop? Big Bad Buffalo and no snow worth mentioning still.
> 
> Don Paul is batting Zero!
> 
> ...


YUP! I was laughing at all the idiots that were pushing around 1" of slush in parking lots today. And I was laughing even harder at the Town of Amherst trying to plow it off the roads! That said, I did go plow one lot, more or less just to make sure everything on the truck was working! I think a lot of people are just itching to plow for some reason.


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## rywnygc (Feb 20, 2010)

As I sit here, I'm looking outside watching everything get covered in powder. 1.2" reported 13 minutes ago 6 miles from my house. Just threw on the coffee. Just in case. Don paul said that OP should only get about another 1/2 inch.....I guess that means a blizzard is coming. He gives us Infantry guys a bad name.


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

Practiced on the 1" with the new V plow . Starting to get the hang of it. Looks like it might be a time saver over the 7.6 Strt. Things seem to be working properly just nee to adjust the bumper stop tomorrow.


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## rywnygc (Feb 20, 2010)

OP ended up getting 3.5-4". I was getting ready to go to bed when my wife told me to turn on the news. I decided to spin up and head out. I got to OP and trucks were everywhere. Glad I went out. My route got hit pretty good. Had a pretty good run. Took a while because it was wet and HEAVY. Very pretty this morning though!


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

TCLA;1372349 said:


> No worries. Over time you'll realize the issues working for friends, family and neighbors with verbal agreements.


Look if you dont show up, they cant sue you over a verbal agreement. Thumbs Up

Lol TCLA is right about the family part. All of my family has to prepay me for my services! All i say s if you dont trust that i'll show up go give your money to another guy!


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