# Question about cutting edge...



## Shortstuff (Feb 4, 2009)

I am just about ready to purchase a new Fisher 8'HD complete plow setup. Can anyone tell me if a cutting edge is normally included with a complete purchase, or is it considered an 'option' that I would normally pay extra for?

Thanks: Steve


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

A cutting edge has always been included in the price of every plow I've ever purchased. There was a thread on here last year about edges being considered an "option". I can't remember the specifics but if you do a search you might be able to find it.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

The HD's do not include an edge.


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## GPS (Jun 27, 2008)

As always, B+B is right on the money. The Fisher HD series trip-edge has two hardened steel wearbars welded on the back to reduce wear. The trip-edge itself is considered a "cutting edge", until it has worn down enough to require a new edge, which is bolted right on the pre-punched holes. If worn too far, the lower mounts for the trip springs get worn off. That's why you sometimes see old Fishers missing a spring- someone went too long on the trip-edge.

So after my unneccessarily long answer to your short question, the cutting edge is usually not considered "standard equipment" during a purchase.


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## Shortstuff (Feb 4, 2009)

Thanks for the replies, as it turns out the cutting edge* is *an option and costs extra.

Steve


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

You do not need the cutting edge right away. I will only add weight to the plow. You might get 200 commercial hours of plowing before you need one.


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## Shortstuff (Feb 4, 2009)

cet;787589 said:


> You do not need the cutting edge right away. I will only add weight to the plow. You might get 200 commercial hours of plowing before you need one.


I've read many posts about 'wearing in' the lower portion of the blade before attaching a cutting edge, but never owning a plow I don't know exactly what this all means.

Can you explain this to me, and please bring it down to simple terms (sorta like plant-life) as I'm not very knowledgeable at all about this.

Thanks - Steve


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

If you put a cutting edge on now, it will not hang below the trip edge by much, if it all. Most guys will wear an inch or so off the trip edge before putting on the cutting edge. It doesn't really matter what you do. If you are plowing commercial at all, I would have the dealer put on the cutting edge now. You can just wear the cutting edge and trip edge down together. It will take longer, but it's the same money out of your pocket at the end of the season. You should at least get the install (5 minutes with an air gun) for free, if not the whole deal. If your only doing a few driveways, don't bother with it for another year or two. When you look at the plow, what they are saying about wearing too far and losing a trip spring will make perfect sense to you, and you'll know when to put the new edge on just by looking at it.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Cutting edges and skids are optional to keep the weight and cost (mostly weight) down. Adding the wear edge increases the weight of the unit disallowing certain fits because of excessive weight.

You can shop the local Meyer dealer to see if they have a better price on the wear edge as they are interchangable.


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

My freind just bought a brand new GMC 1500 with a brand new 7.5' HD Fisher, and he had to pay extra for the cutting edge. They toled him to put shoes on it, and he toled them that he wears shoes on his feat and not his plow.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

Shortstuff;787637 said:


> I've read many posts about 'wearing in' the lower portion of the blade before attaching a cutting edge, but never owning a plow I don't know exactly what this all means.
> 
> Can you explain this to me, and please bring it down to simple terms (sorta like plant-life) as I'm not very knowledgeable at all about this.
> 
> Thanks - Steve


Most plows need a cutting edge. This is the part that rides along the pavement. The Fisher plow you are looking at comes with a built in cutting edge, it is part of the plow. You can use the plow without the add on cutting edge until you wear the stock edge down to the point where you need a new cutting edge. You simply bolt on the new edge in the predrilled holes and you are good to go again. I would not install the new cutting edge until you wear down the stock one. You are only adding weight you don't need.


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## Shortstuff (Feb 4, 2009)

cet;787752 said:


> Most plows need a cutting edge. This is the part that rides along the pavement. The Fisher plow you are looking at comes with a built in cutting edge, it is part of the plow. You can use the plow without the add on cutting edge until you wear the stock edge down to the point where you need a new cutting edge. You simply bolt on the new edge in the predrilled holes and you are good to go again. I would not install the new cutting edge until you wear down the stock one. You are only adding weight you don't need.


Yours and the advise of others has been well taken and I cancelled the cutting edge off of my order. I will be picking everything up tomorrow (Friday) morning.

*Thanks to everyone who responded!*

Steve


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## sbt1 (Jan 30, 2005)

*This is why shoes exist*

Put the shoes on and leave them on.

I often read about people who complain that their blade wears out prematurely.. but when you ask, they have taken the shoes off! Duh.

The shoes are installed by the mfr to take the wear, so the edge doesn't wear. Shoes are cheap and we used to simply weld angle iron onto them after they wore down instead of replacing them.

Don't listen to anyone who tells you to take the shoes off your plow.

BTW, in case anyone asks, I _do_ have some experience... been plowing snow since 1976.


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

sbt1;793691 said:


> Put the shoes on and leave them on.
> 
> I often read about people who complain that their blade wears out prematurely.. but when you ask, they have taken the shoes off! Duh.
> 
> ...


I like a clean scrape, so I just buy cutting edges.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

mercer_me;793710 said:


> I like a clean scrape, so I just buy cutting edges.


x2 My customers pay alot for premium service, Cutting edges are just another cost of doing business. Like gas, insurance, and transmissions.


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

2COR517;793716 said:


> x2 My customers pay alot for premium service, Cutting edges are just another cost of doing business. Like gas, insurance, and transmissions.


Ya, my customers don't want to walk through snow and slush, the want there drive way scraped clean.


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Cutting edge costs less than a worn out trip edge!!!


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

This is in the Non-commercial/Homeowner section so he apparently HAS no customers. His trip edge that comes with the plow will last for many years unless his plowing surface consists of acres and/or miles.


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## RichG53 (Sep 16, 2008)

I use shoes too !!! They wear down to were the edge is almost touching ... If it gets to much I add a washer.........It gives the plow a better chance of bumping over some thing in stead of SMACKING in to it !!!!! That is why they make(add) them !!!!!!!!!


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## vegaman04 (Dec 12, 2007)

Last time i checked they were installed for when you plow gravel driveways that aren't frozen.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

RichG53;793960 said:


> It gives the plow a better chance of bumping over some thing in stead of SMACKING in to it !!!!! That is why they make(add) them !!!!!!!!!


My plow has a tripedge. Which is also good because they save transmissions.


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## nbannan (Aug 26, 2009)

*Poly edge or steel edge?*

Hi All, new to plowing & have a new Fisher HT that comes with trip edge only.
I am mostly doing my own driveway and maybe a couple of friends etc.
Don't want to strip the sealcoat off the drive so I am thinking Poly 1" edge.
i realize it will wear quicker etc. I am thinking of avoiding the feet for now, as they are optional as well. All feedback is helpful.thxs


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

I plow 100 driveways I dont use feet so I scape better. I've never scraped up seal coating. my cutting edge lasts about 3 years, that means I spend more on driveway markers than I do on edges.


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## nbannan (Aug 26, 2009)

Thanks for the info. My truck is a 1500 so trying to be conservative on adding weight as well.
If steel edge is best , how thick is enough?


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Adding weight BEHIND the rear wheel will take weight OFF the front end.



nbannan;803205 said:


> Thanks for the info. My truck is a 1500 so trying to be conservative on adding weight as well.
> If steel edge is best , how thick is enough?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

nbannan;803194 said:


> Don't want to strip the sealcoat off the drive so I am thinking Poly 1" edge.
> i realize it will wear quicker etc.:


Poly will not wear faster.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

theplowmeister;803238 said:


> Adding weight BEHIND the rear wheel will take weight OFF the front end.


This is good advice, regardless of your truck. Even if you drive a big Dodge diesel, you should use ballast.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

sbt1;793691 said:


> Put the shoes on and leave them on.
> 
> I often read about people who complain that their blade wears out prematurely.. but when you ask, they have taken the shoes off! Duh.
> 
> ...


Wow, since '76?

That's amazing, didn't know they had snow in '76.

I was riding with my dad in '76, but he wasn't using shoes then. He only started in '62, so what does he know?

Shoes are a waste unless you're plowing gravel.

PS Do you take your tires off so you don't wear the rubber down?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

2COR517;794047 said:


> My plow has a tripedge. Which is also good because they save transmissions.


Uh oh, not this again?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;803421 said:


> I was riding with my dad in '76, but he wasn't using shoes then. He only started in '62, so what does he know?


Is that when they invented shoes, when did they invent boots? Must have been cold, particularly shoveling sidewalks barefoot



Mark Oomkes;803422 said:


> Uh oh, not this again?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

2COR517;803337 said:


> This is good advice, regardless of your truck. Even if you drive a big Dodge diesel, you should use ballast.


Would you use ballast or counterweight?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

2COR517;803337 said:


> This is good advice, regardless of your truck. Even if you drive a big Dodge diesel, you should use ballast.


ESPECIALLY if you drive a Dodge diesel.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cretebaby;803466 said:


> Would you use ballast or counterweight?


Depends on if you want it in front of the rear axle or behind it.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

You can use a Dodge diesel for ballast?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

basher;803545 said:


> You can use a Dodge diesel for ballast?


Sure why not? Guys use boat anchors for snow plows all the time.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

B&B;803565 said:


> Sure why not? Guys use boat anchors for snow plows all the time.


:yow!: LOL :yow!:


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

B&B;803565 said:


> Sure why not? Guys use boat anchors for snow plows all the time.


And I'm guessing you would recommend a plough as opposed to a fluke anchor?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

basher;803693 said:


> And I'm guessing you would recommend a plough as opposed to a fluke anchor?


But of course since their the best overall for most terrain and conditions. You know I prefer versatility.


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## piggle (Oct 4, 2009)

Great site, I have been reading for a while. This is my first post and I was just discussing counterweights earlier in the week.

"Adding weight BEHIND the rear wheel will take weight OFF the front end."

I don't know if this is the most effective solution.

Say you want to remove 100lbs off your front end. If your pivot point is the rear wheels and the distance from the center of gravity of the plow weight to your rear wheels is 15 ft that meens you needs 1500ft-lbs of counterwight pivoting about your rear wheels. 

Now if the center of gravity of your counterweight is two feet behind your rear wheels in the bed of your truck then you need 750lbs of counterweight to take 100 lbs of your front end. 

This seems an excessive way of lightening your front end. Wouldn't you be better off upgrading your front springs?

This is not a criticism of any posts or opinions. We were discussing this earlier in the week and I am trying to further the discussion.

Great site.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

piggle;818533 said:


> ...Now if the center of gravity of your counterweight is two feet behind your rear wheels ...


Center of gravity or pivot point? Pivot point for a plow would be the FRONT axle,


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## piggle (Oct 4, 2009)

If you are trying to unload the front axle with a counterweight you must pivot around the rear axle and have your counterweight behind your rear axle.

Think of your truck frame as a beam with two supports, the front axle and the rear axle.

All weight is loaded onto the frame, and then depending on the location on the frame/beam is transmitted to the front and rear axles.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Do you know what a fulcrum is and its principle? The front axle is the fulcrum. The frame is the lever and the ballast is the "unit of weight" (Newton's Laws of Physics - look it up).

In front of or behind the rear axle is irrelevant.


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## piggle (Oct 4, 2009)

Yes I do understand fulcrums and all of Newtons Laws.

You are right, the front axle is a fulcrum in this system. However if you want to decrease the load carried by the front axle, I don't think it is the fulcrum you need to analyze.

If you add weight anywhere between the front axle and rear axle this additional load will be carried by both of the axles in different amounts. This will not accomplish the goal of reducing the weight on the front axle.

I think to solve this problem correctly you have to draw a free body diagram. Wikipedia can show you how, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_body_diagram.

By summing the forces and also the moments about a pivot point I think you will see that the counterweight does indeed have to be behind the rear axle. If you are using the front axle as your pivot point the front axle will be carring more load when you sum the forces.

But if you pivot around the rear axle you use the frame as a lever to hold up the plow weight and reduce the reaction force at the front axle.

Interesting physics problem with real world potential. The free body diagram with forces and moments will reveal the answer.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Piggle, If I understand what you are trying to say you are correct.

If you are trying to unload the front axle the weight would need to be to the rear of the rear axle and the rear axle would be the fulcrum.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

cretebaby;818656 said:


> Piggle, If I understand what you are trying to say you are correct.
> 
> If you are trying to unload the front axle the weight would need to be to the rear of the rear axle and the rear axle would be the fulcrum.


This is correct. When calculating ballast/counterweight requirements, you need to view the rear axle as the fulcrum. If the cg of your ballast (or cummings block) is ahead of the axle, it will add weight to the front axle. If the cg of your ballast is directly over the rear axle, the the front axle will be unaffected. You need to move the cg of your ballast behind the axle. The further you move it back, the less you need. Tailgate sanders are extremely effective. Almost seems like someone here is running a lead filled rear bumper.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

Mick;818544 said:


> Center of gravity or pivot point? Pivot point for a plow would be the FRONT axle,


Yep, same thing I was going to post.

You have to also understand that the more weight you put on your "pivot point" from your counter balance increases stress on your frame.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

2COR517;818734 said:


> Tailgate sanders are extremely effective. Almost seems like someone here is running a lead filled rear bumper.


That would be Plowmeister with the BossV on the jeep.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

piggle;818533 said:


> This seems an excessive way of lightening your front end. Wouldn't you be better off upgrading your front springs?
> 
> This is not a criticism of any posts or opinions. We were discussing this earlier in the week and I am trying to further the discussion.
> 
> Great site.


Upgrading springs will not reduce the weight on the front axle. It will only carry the weight better.

Using the rear axle as a pivot\fulcrum will remove weight from the front axle. Even placing some directly over the rear axle may reduce it marginally.

This is why almost everyone says the further back the ballast, the better.


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## piggle (Oct 4, 2009)

"Upgrading springs will not reduce the weight on the front axle. It will only carry the weight better"

Agreed. I am making the assumption here that the reason to add a counterweight and unload your front springs a bit is because the front springs are not strong enough. 

So if you could upgrade your springs you have that problem solved.

Then you can just use your ballast/counterweight to balance your truck to optomize stearing and handling when loaded up with the extra weight of the plow.

From experience my one ton long bed plows and handles much better with extra weight against the tailgate.

This hasn't been mentioned in this talk yet but strap your ballast down!! I made that mistake once and it was ugly.


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