# dumb question for the guy that just got a tractor



## PTSolutions

does a synchronized shuttle and main gear mean you still need to clutch between forward and reverse?

never used an ag tractor before so forgive the stupidity. just been practicing around our parking lot, no snow yet.

heres the spec list:

Transmission Type Manual
Shuttle Synchronized
Main Gear Synchronized
No. of Travel Speed Forward / Reverse 16F/16R
Min. Travel Speed of Forward w/ Ag1 @ Engine rated speed 0.16 mph (0.25 kph)
Max. Travel Speed of Forward w/ Ag1 @ Engine rated speed 21.57 mph (34.72 kph)


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## Camden

If you have a shuttle shift transmission you do not need to push in the clutch when going from forward to reverse. It's just like a wheel loader...choose the gear you want to work in and have at it.

What make/model of tractor?


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## PTSolutions

kioti dk90

its not the lever like a blinker stalk, its like a gear lever that goes forward and back, more travel than a stalk.

heres an excerpt from their brochure:

The DK 90 with 16 forward and reverse gears have travel speeds to match any task around the farm. The fully synchronized shuttle simplify loader work. The DK 90 also has a factory installed creeper gear that propels the tractor at speeds as low as .12 MPH.


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## Camden

Oh boy, I have no experience with Kioti tractors so I don't want to mislead you. Judging by the description I'd say you'd be fine with not using the clutch but hopefully someone who's used one can verify that for sure.


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## Peterbilt

Can you post a pic of the cab interior? That would help seing how the shifter is set up.

Not having a left hand reverser might suck for going back and forth a few hundred times a night.

J.


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## BUFF

I'd call the dealer, thats what they're there for....


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## White Gardens

BUFF;1369628 said:


> I'd call the dealer, thats what they're there for....


Exactly.

From my AG experiences though, you will need to use the clutch between forward and reverse, and also clutch while you are selecting your starting gear in both forward and reverse.

Only Hydrostatic drives can you shift from forward to reverse without the clutch.

The JD tractors with the Power Shift transmissions were that way. You could shift up and down through the gears without the clutch, just had to always remember which gears I needed to pull the throttle back on as certain shifts would really jerk.

...


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## leon

*synchronised shuttle shifting*



ProTouchGrounds;1369596 said:


> does a synchronized shuttle and main gear mean you still need to clutch between forward and reverse?
> 
> never used an ag tractor before so forgive the stupidity. just been practicing around our parking lot, no snow yet.
> 
> heres the spec list:
> 
> Transmission Type Manual
> Shuttle Synchronized
> Main Gear Synchronized
> No. of Travel Speed Forward / Reverse 16F/16R
> Min. Travel Speed of Forward w/ Ag1 @ Engine rated speed 0.16 mph (0.25 kph)
> Max. Travel Speed of Forward w/ Ag1 @ Engine rated speed 21.57 mph (34.72 kph)


The Agco ST40 has the shuttle shift and it allows you to use the same speed in forward as in reverse to make loader work and mounting attachments easier BUT YOU Need to use the clutch pedal.:waving:


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## Joe Blade

*Mech Shuttle*



ProTouchGrounds;1369596 said:


> does a synchronized shuttle and main gear mean you still need to clutch between forward and reverse?
> 
> never used an ag tractor before so forgive the stupidity. just been practicing around our parking lot, no snow yet.
> 
> heres the spec list:
> 
> Transmission Type Manual
> Shuttle Synchronized
> Main Gear Synchronized
> No. of Travel Speed Forward / Reverse 16F/16R
> Min. Travel Speed of Forward w/ Ag1 @ Engine rated speed 0.16 mph (0.25 kph)
> Max. Travel Speed of Forward w/ Ag1 @ Engine rated speed 21.57 mph (34.72 kph)


What you have is what I call a mechanical shuttle which means your gears are all synconised but you still need to engage your clutch to switch them. So just so you understand just because your gears are synchronized does not mean you don't need a clutch. For example standard vehicles today are all synchronized but you still need to clutch. Don't confuse synchros with a power shift trans or an electro shift shuttle trans there is a big difference. Hope that helps a bit.


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## blowerman

Yes, you should be able to shift between forward and reverse without the clutch. That's what the left hand reverser is for.


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## PTSolutions

my dealer sells both NH and kioti tractors, although this is the first 90 they have sold (kiotis largest model) they told me to use the clutch for everything, range, gear and forward & reverse.

as i was reading through the site though, it makes it sound like i dont need the clutch for forward & reverse shifting.

it does have a left hand reverser but it is a mechanical linkage, not electronic like the little stalks off the wheel column.


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## White Gardens

ProTouchGrounds;1369992 said:


> my dealer sells both NH and kioti tractors, although this is the first 90 they have sold (kiotis largest model) they told me to use the clutch for everything, range, gear and forward & reverse.
> 
> as i was reading through the site though, it makes it sound like i dont need the clutch for forward & reverse shifting.
> 
> it does have a left hand reverser but it is a mechanical linkage, not electronic like the little stalks off the wheel column.


I would just go with what the dealer said. Once you get the hang of the tractor, you'll realize that you won't actually be clutching as much as you think. Find the right gear, adjust with the throttle and your good to go.

The last thing you want to do is kill the transmission before you actually use it.

..


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## PTSolutions

exactly, ive found that i can stay in high range and just use gear 1 while on the driveway and 4 high gets me to the road speed of 21mph. so technically ill only be shifting through 4 gears at most, and the clutching isnt too bad in forward and reverse.


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## NicholasMWhite

ProTouchGrounds;1370005 said:


> exactly, ive found that i can stay in high range and just use gear 1 while on the driveway and 4 high gets me to the road speed of 21mph. so technically ill only be shifting through 4 gears at most, and the clutching isnt too bad in forward and reverse.


If I understand this comment correctly you are shift on the fly (while moving) through gears 1-2-3-4 which you should not be doing. You shouldn't ever shift from one gear to another while moving. Tractor transmissions do not have synchromesh like car and truck transmissions have. Just pick a gear and stick with that gear.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this.

As for shifting from forward to reverse, unfortunately it seems that your tractor can't do that. In my opinion that would be a huge drawback to the Kioti because of all the forward and reverse shifting that will be done in the driveway. I'm not condemning your decision, the price is what you were comfortable with and that's great. Good luck with it this year and be sure to post your opinion on it once you get some real seat time.


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## PTSolutions

That's not correct, the ranges and gears are synchronized. You can't start it off in say 4 hi it will s. tall or if your lucky start off exteremely slow. It can shift on the fly but the tractor slows down enough when you shift between the gears. Often I don't need to use the brake when I back up to a garage door, using the clutch slows it enough and then I just put it in forward and off the clutch and it goes.


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## Camden

NicholasMWhite;1370130 said:


> If I understand this comment correctly you are shift on the fly (while moving) through gears 1-2-3-4 which you should not be doing. You shouldn't ever shift from one gear to another while moving. Tractor transmissions do not have synchromesh like car and truck transmissions have. Just pick a gear and stick with that gear.
> 
> Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this.


Most modern tractors have the ability to shuffle through gears on the fly.


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## White Gardens

Is this your shifter?










If that is so, it seems like you wouldn't need to use the clutch to "shuttle" between gears. But, you would need to engage each gear one at a time.

Is the transmission set up with something like 4 reverse gears and 12 forward?, including the high/low range?

Going from a dead stop, regardless of what gear you use, I would use the clutch. You could just shuttle from a dead stop, but you would be starting out in the lowest gear, and is probably not the best idea.

EDIT: Just found this nugget for you. http://www.agriengineers.com/transmission_types.php

....


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## dfd9

White Gardens;1369650 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> From my AG experiences though, you will need to use the clutch between forward and reverse, and also clutch while you are selecting your starting gear in both forward and reverse.
> 
> *Only Hydrostatic drives can you shift from forward to reverse without the clutch.*
> 
> The JD tractors with the Power Shift transmissions were that way. You could shift up and down through the gears without the clutch, just had to always remember which gears I needed to pull the throttle back on as certain shifts would really jerk.
> 
> ...


Not so. I have a 5101e and an MX125 that I don't need to clutch between F and R.


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## JD Dave

dfd9;1370316 said:


> Not so. I have a 5101e and an MX125 that I don't need to clutch between F and R.


His farm experience is with tractors that are more then 20 years old. All of our tractors go from forward to reverse without clutching.


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## PTSolutions

okay, i cant find a good interior shot online but I will explain the setup.

On my left side i have the range selector: Creep, Low, Med., High ranges
On my right side i have the gear selector: 1, 2, 3, 4
To the left of the steering wheel is the forward/reverse shifter.

Total of 16 speeds available in forward and reverse.

According to the agriengineers link i have a shuttle shift or synchro shift trans that means all my gears are synched allowing me to shift on the fly, but clutch must still be used start/stop and change directions.

Power shuttle is the one that allows you to change directions and start/stop without the clutch.


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## G.Landscape

I guess this is the interior of your tractor? I see what you mean now that the forward reverse doesn't look like a turn signal (power shifter). That's going to be alot of clutching, hopefully its light.


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## PTSolutions

yep thats it, the lever to the left of the seat below is the range selector, the lever to the front of the joystick control is the gear selector and the lever to the left of the steering wheel is the F/R selector. the clutch is pretty light and when you engage it the tractor slows down alot so instead of using the brakes we will mostly be on the clutch.

its ok, next year an m100x will be replacing this for drives and this will prolly have a pusher on a lot somewhere.


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## cmo18

I bought a dk55, same setup as you and you have to use the clutch. I have 12F/12R. 1st High range is to fast for blowing for us anyways


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## PTSolutions

do you find that being in high 1 doesnt get you enough revs to get the pto up to speed because you are keeping the foot throttle low to keep your speed down?


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## Snowzilla

Shuttle shift technologies can be confusing. I have a 1980's manual shuttle shift kubota with partial synchronized shifting. It allows synchronized shifting between gears 3 and 4 only. Which means it can be moving while clutching & shifting between 3&4. All other gear changes must be made while not in motion. But clutch is required for any gear change.

Current Kubota GST allows clutchless shifts between all gears and forward/reverse from what I read.

I think if something is meant to be clutched the operator we'll find out real quick by the grinding of gears. I think the term "reverser" or "power reverser" is used in ag tractors where no clutch is required from forward/reverse.


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## cmo18

ProTouchGrounds;1377615 said:


> do you find that being in high 1 doesnt get you enough revs to get the pto up to speed because you are keeping the foot throttle low to keep your speed down?


yes..We had 1 ft of snow and I found Medium range much better for blowing. Maybe on a lighter snow 1st high would be fine but I tell my employee to use medium so hes not riding the clutch

You have an extra 35 hp, different ball park


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