# hey all you DIRRECT APPLY LIQUID GUYS



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

heres the situation

I have a grouping of accounts, that i can plow, however salting is an issue. im not gonna stick a skidder out there so loading bulk salt at that location is a problem. i can load at the shop, but i think by the time all the plowing is done the salt will be rock hard, and i dont want to plow loaded with a 3/4 ton

so... how well do liquids work..i used them a little in the past , but didnt play around with it too much.

I do have storage rights at these properties, so buying a tank and a pump to stick on the sites would not be that big of a deal. the idea of pumping my truck full after plowing and spraying is sounding good. I can send a dump with salt that way for non-plowable events, like ice storms...just cant do it with plowable stuff. I can also put a tail gate spreader on that truck, and have some bagged (or bulk salt in buckets) ready to go for high traffic areas.... what do you guys think? i was really just thinking a simple gravity feed to start with and go from there

info with application rates that you ACTUALLY HAVE Experiance with would be helpful


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

We went full liquid last year but this year we might go 50/50. A couple large lots we have would be too expensive with liquid vs. rock salt. Any way, we've had nothing but good luck applying liquid, I'm not sure of the ratio but our's is sodium chloride with calcium mixed in. It burned off everything we needed it to. The average application was around 3 gallons/1ksqft.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

I use 50% rock salt and about 50% liquid. Maybe a little more to the liquid side if its a dry snow or post plowing. 90/10 mix salt brine / calcium chloride.

















Just finished these today and they're headed to New York, must work good?

With the 90/10 mix, application rate varies just like rock salt does but any where from 60 gpa - 120 gpa max.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

3 gal per ksq so yoru talking well over 125 gals per acre? may i ask whats the cost for that mix?


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

elite1msmith;1079839 said:


> 3 gal per ksq so yoru talking well over 125 gals per acre? may i ask whats the cost for that mix?


Our cost is around .25/gallon, which doesn't seem like much but when your applying 500 gallons or more it becomes cheaper with rock salt.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

BUT....if your like Kabota, and can make your own it becomes very profitable. We just have no place to keep a brine making station. Kabota, I'm going to have to pick your brain soon. Next year we're moving into a building or bigger house with some land for a nice pole building and then I would love to put my own station up.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

With salt at $80.00 / ton (round # for ease of doing the math) and calcium chloride at 1.00 / gallon ( can buy for less if you purchase a larger quantity for as low as .60 / gal) at a 90/10 mix it will cost .20 / gallon for a salt brine /calcium chloride mix. This is the cheapest per gallon mix that I have found and it absolutely works. If you can show me something for less money that works as well I will try it.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

The little brine maker (400 gallon per batch) is 48" wide x 96" long x 66" high, not to big? They can set outside as long as you keep some salt brine in it. Its not going to freeze. Working on a 1,200 gallon maker next with (2) 5.5hp 2" pumps.....get er done....this one is 101" wide x 11' long x approx 66" high

I'm not in the business of making brine but I had to turn down a 40,000 gallon order recently, I was afraid it would suck my well dry. If I had of been on city water, it would have been interesting?


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Well at 135 gals per acre at 25 cents per gal, 33.75 to treat 1 acre, Salt wise, 700 lbs would cost around 25-28 bucks. So if you really are only putting down 3 per ksq, your cost would not be that much more, and in my case the extra 5 could be made up for due not having a skid steer near by to load salt, and saved fuel

I'd like to get down to 50 gals per acre, just so we aren't going threw so mulch liquid and the tank on the truck could cover more area, is there a more expensive product that will cover more sq per gal?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Here's how I would break down my application rate: 60-70 gpa for anti-icing 70-80 gpa for post plowing cleanup 80-100 gpa for burning off up to 1" of snow, and 100-120 gpa on higher moisture content snow up to 1" because I was too lazy to switch back to the spreader and not recommended. 800 pounds of rock salt to do an acre OR 100 gallon brine, rock salt @80.00/ ton and brine @ .20 / gallon, salt would cost $32.00, brine would cost $20.00


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

That's helpful info, thanks


Any ideas for a product that would require less per gpa, with a similar cost per acre(slightly higher per gal)


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Pretty hard to compete with a salt brine calcium chloride mix, both cost and ease of availability. In my opinion when a liquid cost more than a $2/gallon and still requires 30-40 gpa, once again salt brine 90/10 beats it hands down. Unless it is low temp. Thats when I can go straight calcium. I'd like to find a corrosion inhibitor that is inexpensive to dump in the mix.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Kubota 8540;1080048 said:


> Pretty hard to compete with a salt brine calcium chloride mix, both cost and ease of availability. In my opinion when a liquid cost more than a $2/gallon and still requires 30-40 gpa, once again salt brine 90/10 beats it hands down. Unless it is low temp. Thats when I can go straight calcium. I'd like to find a corrosion inhibitor that is inexpensive to dump in the mix.


My guy here has been working on just that (a corrosion inhibitor) and patent it last year. I can give you his number if you want.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Kubota 8540;1080023 said:


> Here's how I would break down my application rate: 60-70 gpa for anti-icing 70-80 gpa for post plowing cleanup 80-100 gpa for burning off up to 1" of snow, and 100-120 gpa on higher moisture content snow up to 1" because I was too lazy to switch back to the spreader and not recommended. 800 pounds of rock salt to do an acre OR 100 gallon brine, rock salt @80.00/ ton and brine @ .20 / gallon, salt would cost $32.00, brine would cost $20.00


Here's my thing though, if your spraying 70gpa for a pre treat, then 80gpa for a post treatment thats 150 gallons total and at .20/gallon thats a total of 30 bucks and if your using even 1000lbs of rock salt, thats only 20 bucks (providing a ton of rock salt is 80.00). My number's for rock salt are based on only 1 post plow application.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Brian Young;1080063 said:


> Here's my thing though, if your spraying 70gpa for a pre treat, then 80gpa for a post treatment thats 150 gallons total and at .20/gallon thats a total of 30 bucks and if your using even 1000lbs of rock salt, thats only 20 bucks (providing a ton of rock salt is 80.00). My number's for rock salt are based on only 1 post plow application.


OOOPPPPSSSS, my math is off! Kids are driving me crazy!lol Rock salt would be at 40 bucks (using 1000lbs DUH). Using 700lbs you might be at say, 30ish.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

1,000 pounds of rock salt @ 80 /ton would be 40.00? I'm set up for getting paid per push and per application of a de-icer. If I anti-ice chances are I don't have to plow or spray again. I never anti-ice when I know the snow will be plowable. Therefore I will get paid to plow then get paid to spray post plow. Very rarely do I spray anti-ice just so it won't stick to the pavement.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Kubota 8540;1080072 said:


> 1,000 pounds of rock salt @ 80 /ton would be 40.00? I'm set up for getting paid per push and per application of a de-icer. If I anti-ice chances are I don't have to plow or spray again. I never anti-ice when I know the snow will be plowable. Therefore I will get paid to plow then get paid to spray post plow. Very rarely do I spray anti-ice just so it won't stick to the pavement.


We're talking costs here right? If I buy a ton of salt (a ton roughly 2k lbs) then half would be 40 bucks. In your other post I thought you were saying you would pre treat, then post treat, thats where I came up with the 150 gallons. I may have read it wrong, I've been up since 5am, I almost cut my "manhood" off while pruning, as soon as I get in the door, the wife and kids are talking a bazillion miles a minute......serenity now!


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

I listen to saws and stuff all day just to walk in the house to hear my son on the drums everyday for an hour! Yes about cost, no can't remember a time when I have sprayed before snow then again after done plowing.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Kubota 8540;1080079 said:


> I listen to saws and stuff all day just to walk in the house to hear my son on the drums everyday for an hour! Yes about cost, no can't remember a time when I have sprayed before snow then again after done plowing.


Gotcha! I think I'm going to go back out to mow just to get some piece and quiet,lol Let me know if you want that guys number for the inhibitor.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Brian Young;1080083 said:


> Gotcha! I think I'm going to go back out to mow just to get some piece and quiet,lol Let me know if you want that guys number for the inhibitor.


Yes send pm his number or post it. This 90/10 mix I use I really like but is also really hard on the equipment. If cost isn't to bad it might be worth it.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

PM sent Kubota! 

Bossman


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Kubota 8540;1080048 said:


> Pretty hard to compete with a salt brine calcium chloride mix, both cost and ease of availability. In my opinion when a liquid cost more than a $2/gallon and still requires 30-40 gpa, once again salt brine 90/10 beats it hands down. Unless it is low temp. Thats when I can go straight calcium. I'd like to find a corrosion inhibitor that is inexpensive to dump in the mix.


well you said the cost for stright calcuim was around $1 per gal = so can i apply it after a plowing at a rate of 35 gals per acre? thus a cost of $35.00

yes this too is slightly higher, but i need to cover 6 acres total, and if we can do it with only 1 tank load that would weigh in around 2100 lbs, on a 3/4 ton truck thats what i would like to do. i figure the time saving on the second fill up would pay for the extra bucks on the calcuim...that is if i can apply at 35?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

rate of 35 gals per acre? No, it probably wouldn't be enough. I think 60-80 gallon per acre. The problem with straight calcium chloride is it is residual and hygroscopic. It keeps the pavement wet, it doesn't dry off like salt brine. 

I would say you should have 600 gallon with you. 6 acres x 100 gallon. Put a tank on location pump out of that , then refill between storms. The way I set up sprayers they can suck from any container or tank.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

50-80 gallons pee acre is what we always used. After plowing it was sometimes as low as 40 because all your doi g is taking the shine off the lot. Most bulk liquid is way under 40 cents per gallon as long as your within a couple of hours of the well. This would work great for your after plowing needs. Not as great for burn off


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Superior L & L;1080477 said:


> 50-80 gallons pee acre is what we always used. After plowing it was sometimes as low as 40 because all your doi g is taking the shine off the lot. Most bulk liquid is way under 40 cents per gallon as long as your within a couple of hours of the well. This would work great for your after plowing needs. Not as great for burn off


I agree on the quantity. Unfortunetly I'm 90 miles Southwest Of Chicago and the trucking cost for well brine kills the price out here. I think the price for Chicago area is better than it is for me. Last year I was quoted .70-.75 / gallon for well brine. I can buy Liquidow 32% for .60 delivered. At .70 / gal it is right at or slightly above the cost of rock salt so that is the reason I only mix it into salt brine, to keep the cost below the straight rock salt. When I say 100 gallon per acre it is to be absolutely certain I will have enough to get the job done and not have to go get another 20-25 gallons to finish.

I'm not a beleiver that liquid is the sole answer to all, some do. I still think its a great option to have available, but there will be times when only rock salt will get the job done.


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## davetileguy (Oct 26, 2010)

Dumb Question from a newbie...I live in Seattle where it won't get below 10-20 F could I mix Sea water (free) with salt to make brine?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

davetileguy;1115405 said:


> Dumb Question from a newbie...I live in Seattle where it won't get below 10-20 F could I mix Sea water (free) with salt to make brine?


My best guess would be yes. Sea waters have different salinities. Measure it's salinity and add salt until you get to 23-24%?


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## gdoulaveris (Jan 12, 2011)

I can provide a low cost corrosion inhibitor for calcium chloride / salt brine . 248 376 4087 George


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## EliteSnow&Ice (Sep 30, 2008)

Kubota 8540;1080023 said:


> Here's how I would break down my application rate: 60-70 gpa for anti-icing 70-80 gpa for post plowing cleanup 80-100 gpa for burning off up to 1" of snow, and 100-120 gpa on higher moisture content snow up to 1" because I was too lazy to switch back to the spreader and not recommended. 800 pounds of rock salt to do an acre OR 100 gallon brine, rock salt @80.00/ ton and brine @ .20 / gallon, salt would cost $32.00, brine would cost $20.00


What is the spec. gravity on the 90/10 mix your using? My well brine is 26% is that about what your making your mix too?

Something that I have always wonder about application rates is that if it take 70 to 80 gallons to clean up a lot after plowing, at what temp is that at and for how long will it hold the lot in that state before the salt burns off?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

EliteSnow&Ice;1195352 said:


> What is the spec. gravity on the 90/10 mix your using? My well brine is 26% is that about what your making your mix too?
> 
> Something that I have always wonder about application rates is that if it take 70 to 80 gallons to clean up a lot after plowing, at what temp is that at and for how long will it hold the lot in that state before the salt burns off?


Salt brine is right at 22-25% with a salimeter. Approx.1.2 s.g. The 10 % cal chloride isn't't really enough to register any reading. But my 32% cal chloride Liquidow I think is 1.3 s g?

By using salt brine mix you are using 25 % the amount of rock salt you normally would apply. Hold the lot? Until it snows again. If its a continuous snow, salt brine in my opinion is not the route to go. Unless you would want to spray repeatedly which you could do as many as 3 more times before you have used the same pounds of rock salt you normally would apply.

Sometimes when using and over applying rock salt there will be residue remaining on the lot that will melt off some additional snow. Not when using salt brine, it melts, it dries off, done.


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## kevhead20 (Jan 15, 2010)

1.322 is the sg on 32%


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