# CAT tracked skids....opinions needed!



## BMWSTUD25

Looking to upgrade and add another skid in the near future. My question is for you guys with these? where are you located? how well does it push, and what size blade or pusher do you use? I know there are a few in Buffalo on here that use them and your opinion would be greatly appreciated. i already know how it will be in the summer but im looking for your opinions on them in the snow. Thanks!!!

really only interested in 277, 287, 297 and 279, 289, 299 model CAT skids


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## SMLCAT

I'm somewhat in the same boat as you.

From what I've been able to gather the XX7 series have plastic/rubber rollers and are meant for somewhat mild terrain. The tracks look more like a turf track. You can find these in the used market now.

The XX9 series have an undercarriage similar to the larger steel track loaders and are much heavier duty. The tracks are beEfier as well. They should go anywhere. These are probably too new to show up used anywhere.

Both of them have a longer track base than tired skid steers so they can carry more and are more stable.

I have a sub that has the Loegering track set up on his 236B and I've seen him take that machine on some pretty steep slopes that I would never take my 252 tired machine.

Check out these videos...
http://www.loegering.com/gallery/index.asp?owner=track_systems&owner_id=1

The tracks on these videos are what the XX9 series machines have.


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## JohnnyRoyale

We have an 8ft (I think) Avalanche steel trip edge pusher on our 257B and it handles it fine. 

We dedicate the machine to two side by side mid sized industrial lots which would normally take a pickup with a v-plow approx 6 hours. This machine/pusher combo will do them both in 4. 

Been using this setup for the last 5 years with no problems. I'm sure any of the machines you're looking st could easily handle a 10 or 12 ft Arctic Pusher.


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## black7.3

We've got a 277 at work and im not impressed, its low on power and the undercarriage gets rebuilt every year because its just a crap design. In the snow it does ok, The single joystick control makes it easier to maintain traction and is easier on the operator. We also have a bobcat T300 and its twice the machine the cat is.


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## icudoucme

I have a CAT 297c It's awesome. I've never used a wheeled skid before only track (Takeuchi tl230, JD CT322, and a Cat257) I have a 8' snow wolf with quick release box blades.

Here some pics.
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=98939&highlight=snow+wolf

Arctic snow and ice who makes the sectional snow pusher claimed the 297c could push a 14' light duty pusher. I haven't tried nor have i done any research on that subject.

I can push through about 6 yards of medium weight snow before i loose traction. IF you call MILTON CAT in Batavia ask for Shawn Pies. He really helped me out with questions and options. He will go to great distances to find what you want. He doesn't pressure you into a sale either. Good luck.


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## hitachiman 200

black7.3;995004 said:


> We've got a 277 at work and im not impressed, its low on power and the undercarriage gets rebuilt every year because its just a crap design. In the snow it does ok, The single joystick control makes it easier to maintain traction and is easier on the operator. We also have a bobcat T300 and its twice the machine the cat is.


x2 The 300 is awesome, toe to toe far better in a battle.


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## SMLCAT

icudoucme-

That's a nice set up.
If you don't mind me asking how much the whole system weighs and how do you move it from job to job (what kind of truck and trailer)?
Thanks.


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## BMWSTUD25

really not interested in hearing about other brands and other sizes. I've already made my mind up on what I want to get. I just want to know what you guys think that run these in the snow. Also if you could tell me what year the machine is helps to as there is more than one generation of them. Thanks!!!


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## BMWSTUD25

hitachiman 200;995454 said:


> x2 The 300 is awesome, toe to toe far better in a battle.


bobcat 300 and a CAT 277 really arent apples to apples if we are going to compare them


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## snocrete

BMW.....why a track machine? Do you have a reason other than snow for this purchase? Or is snow the "primary" reason.....If so, I would be looking at tire machines....it will be quicker, better traction (w/ dedicated snow tires), ALOT less $ to maintain in the long term, less upfront purchase price, and a more comfortable ride. I have owned/run both track & tire machines from just about all the makers out there. If I were to buy a SS primarily for snow work, there is no doubt it would be a 2speed SS with a set of dedicated snow tires.


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## WIPensFan

snocrete;996066 said:


> BMW.....why a track machine? Do you have a reason other than snow for this purchase? Or is snow the "primary" reason.....If so, I would be looking at tire machines....it will be quicker, better traction (w/ dedicated snow tires), ALOT less $ to maintain in the long term, less upfront purchase price, and a more comfortable ride. I have owned/run both track & tire machines from just about all the makers out there. If I were to buy a SS primarily for snow work, there is no doubt it would be a 2speed SS with a set of dedicated snow tires.


Sno... I have been looking at a Cat 297c real seriously for my next machine. I have always been a Bobcat guy. The tracks on these machines are better than those offered by Bobcat for snow removal. This machine for me would do everything! Snow, mud, dirt, lift and basically KICK @ss! The only problem I see is the fact that it's YELLOW! :crying: They do offer custom paint in the brochure. Don't know what that involves or if it's possible. Anyway, these machines look like they will do everything real well.


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## icudoucme

SMLCAT;995743 said:


> icudoucme-
> 
> That's a nice set up.
> If you don't mind me asking how much the whole system weighs and how do you move it from job to job (what kind of truck and trailer)?
> Thanks.


It has an operating weight of 10,000lbs....without any attachments. Right now I don't have anything big enough to tow it. So I hire a local company to move it. They normally move it on a large flatbed tow truck. I was going to get a new 287c with less options , but for less money(~$10,000) I could get a larger machine pretty much fully loaded and a year older. The cost to have someone move it 100 miles is $250 within 50 miles just about 100. I don't need to moved to far to often so for me it works.


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## snocrete

WIPensFan;996106 said:


> Sno... I have been looking at a Cat 297c real seriously for my next machine. I have always been a Bobcat guy. The tracks on these machines are better than those offered by Bobcat for snow removal. This machine for me would do everything! Snow, mud, dirt, lift and basically KICK @ss! The only problem I see is the fact that it's YELLOW! :crying: They do offer custom paint in the brochure. Don't know what that involves or if it's possible. Anyway, these machines look like they will do everything real well.


I agree they are better than Bobcat/Tak/Deere (any solid mount track system) for pushing snow.....But I dont know his situaion? Is he a landscaper that would use this machine year round, and benefit from "that style track system", and it be his"only" machine? Or is this gonna be a snow only machine?
Like I said, I would go with a tire machine for the previous stated reasons "IF" it were purchased primarily for snow work. JMO


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## bry03

i got a 287c loaded and love it.. push a 10 snow box all day long.. it likes its fuel but pushes in high all day. and does a great job...


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## pch1

I have owned 2 - 277's 1 - 287 and had lots of problems with the ASV under carriage but Cat stood behind them. Traded for 4 - 277B's had less problems, I purchased the 3 year 2000 hour warranty (the only way to go)At 1900 to 2000 hours when I Traded for 4 - 277C's I had and average of $23.00 per hour less fuel and labor in the 277B's I spent $2,800.00 each at 1200 hours on sprocket rollers, but I only replaced 1 track on all 4 machines at 1900 to 2000 hours when we traded, I have to have the track because we are in sand but if I were in clay or hard surface I would have 2 speed wheeled machines. The 77's do not have a very aggressive tread which I like in the summer but not very good in the winter.


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## BMWSTUD25

It would be used year round for different landscaping jobs and at this point only maybe for snow. Im sold on a track machine as I already have a wheeled skid to use here and there. I want a solid, powerful track machine with lots of options and after using one of the 297C this summer I am sold on one of the bigger models as stated in the opening post. I have heard that a lot of guys run 10' and even 12' pushers on them but wanted to actually here from those guys.I really like all the tracked CAT skids I have run but I want one with some serious power and lifting capacity so that I can expand the services I offer with the skid steers. after hearing nother but rave reviews on the new sectional pushers that would probably be what I would want to mate up with one of these skids and potentially a blower so after it was done doing commercial work it could go blow resi's or something.


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## jomama45

SMLCAT;995743 said:


> icudoucme-
> 
> That's a nice set up.
> If you don't mind me asking how much the whole system weighs and how do you move it from job to job (what kind of truck and trailer)?
> Thanks.


That's actually a great question and a consideration that's often times overlooked. I've never towed a Cat that big, but putting a Bobcat T300 behind our International is a huge difference in towing.



pch1;996635 said:


> I have owned 2 - 277's 1 - 287 and had lots of problems with the ASV under carriage but Cat stood behind them. Traded for 4 - 277B's had less problems, I purchased the 3 year 2000 hour warranty (the only way to go)At 1900 to 2000 hours when I Traded for 4 - 277C's *I had and average of $23.00 per hour less fuel* and labor in the 277B's I spent $2,800.00 each at 1200 hours on sprocket rollers, but I only replaced 1 track on all 4 machines at 1900 to 2000 hours when we traded, I have to have the track because we are in sand but if I were in clay or hard surface I would have 2 speed wheeled machines. The 77's do not have a very aggressive tread which I like in the summer but not very good in the winter.


Am I reading that right, your saying the cost to maintain was $23.00 per hour? Like 200 hours equalled $4600? Not doubting you at all, that just seems crazy high.


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## hitachiman 200

BMWSTUD25;996045 said:


> bobcat 300 and a CAT 277 really arent apples to apples if we are going to compare them


Who's comparing them

a 279 compares to a T250
a 299 compares to a T300

Both of which are in your OP, take your pick. IMO Bobcats the winner


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## hitachiman 200

jomama45;996659 said:


> That's actually a great question and a consideration that's often times overlooked. I've never towed a Cat that big, but putting a Bobcat T300 behind our International is a huge difference in towing.
> 
> Am I reading that right, your saying the cost to maintain was $23.00 per hour? Like 200 hours equalled $4600? Not doubting you at all, that just seems crazy high.


 Wow, probably the cost of replacing all the plastic and rubber bits. If true....run don't walk


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## WIPensFan

hitachiman 200;996784 said:


> Who's comparing them
> 
> a 279 compares to a T250
> a 299 compares to a T300
> 
> Both of which are in your OP, take your pick. IMO Bobcats the winner


Why is Bobcat the winner?


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## cretebaby

WIPensFan;996837 said:


> Why is Bobcat the winner?


It's not. *D*eere is.


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## hitachiman 200

cretebaby;996844 said:


> It's not. *D*eere is.


Deere.... Orange in a different skin:laughing:


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## hitachiman 200

hitachiman 200;996886 said:


> Deere.... Orange in a different skin:laughing:


like an unripe manderin:laughing::laughing:


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## cretebaby

hitachiman 200;996886 said:


> Deere.... Orange in a different skin:laughing:


Really?


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## hitachiman 200

Excavators


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## cretebaby

hitachiman 200;996904 said:


> Excavators


Aren't they built in a joint venture plant.


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## hitachiman 200

Just ribbing ya Crete, Some reason Deere skids are not at all popular out this way. Bobcats rule better than 50% of the market, Case and Cat next. Seems I'm always wading in to pull the other guys out of the muck. Never had any problems with the bobcat skids can't say the same for the other two. Have leased with option and have never used the option on them. Had a few minor glitches in the early days of the BIC system but they seem to have all the bugs worked out now.Seems every time I dig into the innards of a cat , case I see 10-15 year old bobcat tech. All of the machines are now equipped with touchpad ign. and have not lost one yet.Prior to this machines were being stolen 1-2 times a year. Insurance was becoming unbearable. thieves hotwired a T/A dump and used it to tear out a 12" H-beam gate with 1.5 yards of concrete at each end to steal a 743 bobcat.with 8,000 hrs on it. Moved the yard to a new location, installed GPS and all new equipment have touchpad. no code, no go.


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## hitachiman 200

Deere supplies the innards, engines and such for there brand. Structure is Hitachi.


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## WIPensFan

What the hell are you guys babbling on about? I want to know why BMW... should not buy a Cat and should instead buy a Bobcat?


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## hitachiman 200

hitachiman 200;996930 said:


> Just ribbing ya Crete, Some reason Deere skids are not at all popular out this way. Bobcats rule better than 50% of the market, Case and Cat next. Seems I'm always wading in to pull the other guys out of the muck. Never had any problems with the bobcat skids can't say the same for the other two. Have leased with option and have never used the option on them. Had a few minor glitches in the early days of the BIC system but they seem to have all the bugs worked out now.Seems every time I dig into the innards of a cat , case I see 10-15 year old bobcat tech. All of the machines are now equipped with touchpad ign. and have not lost one yet.Prior to this machines were being stolen 1-2 times a year. Insurance was becoming unbearable. thieves hotwired a T/A dump and used it to tear out a 12" H-beam gate with 1.5 yards of concrete at each end to steal a 743 bobcat.with 8,000 hrs on it. Moved the yard to a new location, installed GPS and all new equipment have touchpad. no code, no go.


1)Some reason Deere skids are not at all popular out this way. Bobcats rule better than 50% of the market,

2)Seems I'm always wading in to pull the other guys out of the muck

3)Never had any problems with the bobcat skids can't say the same for the other two.

4)Have leased with option and have never used the option on them

I could go on forever but enough said.

Bottom line is you should test drive them all before buying. Asking here is a good start but do you really want just the opinion of a brand loyalist or someone who has experience across the board. The original post I found confusing, He has already made up his mind to buy Cat, fine but why ask what size? You should spec the machine for the job you want it for IE: straight bucket or blade, blower, pusher etc, snow only, landscape, general contract, excavation, demolition or a toy for the weekend. These all have a bearing on what is the ideal machine for the money. Why pay a premium price if you will never need all the features that it will deliver.

I have around 20,000 hrs in loaders of all manufacturers. In my line of work I need a tough as nails machine that won't let me down, Bobcat so far has the best track record for me.


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## WIPensFan

hitachiman 200;997065 said:


> 1)Some reason Deere skids are not at all popular out this way. Bobcats rule better than 50% of the market,
> 
> 2)Seems I'm always wading in to pull the other guys out of the muck
> 
> 3)Never had any problems with the bobcat skids can't say the same for the other two.
> 
> 4)Have leased with option and have never used the option on them
> 
> I could go on forever but enough said.
> 
> Bottom line is you should test drive them all before buying. Asking here is a good start but do you really want just the opinion of a brand loyalist or someone who has experience across the board. The original post I found confusing, He has already made up his mind to buy Cat, fine but why ask what size? You should spec the machine for the job you want it for IE: straight bucket or blade, blower, pusher etc, snow only, landscape, general contract, excavation, demolition or a toy for the weekend. These all have a bearing on what is the ideal machine for the money. Why pay a premium price if you will never need all the features that it will deliver.
> 
> I have around 20,000 hrs in loaders of all manufacturers. In my line of work I need a tough as nails machine that won't let me down, Bobcat so far has the best track record for me.


Actually I wanted the info for me. As I stated before I love Bobcat products, I was hoping for a little more insight on the ASV style tracks.Problems etc... I think for me, if Bobcat ever put these on their machines it would be lights out for all the rest. I thought Cat made pretty quality stuff?


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## hitachiman 200

The skids and mini hoes are not of the same quality as there other iron. Like I said earlier I see old tech when I look at there machines. Things that Bobcat has already moved on from with their SS. Somehow just the idea of using plastic and rubber in an undercarriage makes me cringe, maybe for a paper re-cycle plant? the T190 has about 2000 and showing very little signs of wear even though it gets used for just about everything, had 1500 before I even snugged up the tracks.
I have yet to try a bobcat with the new suspension system, the local dealer never seems to have one when I can try it out I've seen one operating on blacktop and the usual chatter was non existant. At the right speed it can shake your fillings out.
Even so after abusing my spine for so many years the regular tracks almost make me want to operate full time again. ....almost.


My last full time machine was an 853, absolutly loved it........ until the T250 that is
:bluebounc:bluebounc:bluebounc:bluebounc


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## pch1

jomama45;996659 said:


> That's actually a great question and a consideration that's often times overlooked. I've never towed a Cat that big, but putting a Bobcat T300 behind our International is a huge difference in towing.
> 
> Am I reading that right, your saying the cost to maintain was $23.00 per hour? Like 200 hours equalled $4600? Not doubting you at all, that just seems crazy high.


I took machine purchase price plus all services and repairs not covered by warranty minus trade in value and had a $23.00 per hour cost based on 1900 to 2000 hours of service each on the average of the 4 - machines. I think you will see that average number pretty consistent in all track machines. I charge $85.00 per hour. I have a Cat snow blower and it works great, we use it alot after big snows to blow snow over fences in tight areas (storage unit lots and apartment complexes)


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## hitachiman 200

Total cost is about average then for a skid, Just curios seeing that you are running in abrasive material why use a 7 series and not a 9?


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## jomama45

pch1;997201 said:


> I took machine purchase price plus all services and repairs not covered by warranty minus trade in value and had a $23.00 per hour cost based on 1900 to 2000 hours of service each on the average of the 4 - machines. I think you will see that average number pretty consistent in all track machines. I charge $85.00 per hour. I have a Cat snow blower and it works great, we use it alot after big snows to blow snow over fences in tight areas (storage unit lots and apartment complexes)


Thanks for elaborating, that's far more than I would have ever fathomed. At first, I didn't realize you had depreciation costs figured in. Guess a CTL isn't in my near future.



hitachiman 200;997301 said:


> Total cost is about average then for a skid, Just curios seeing that you are running in abrasive material why use a 7 series and not a 9?


Than I must be one lucky SOB, because my numbers aren't even in that ballpark for a skid. Unless you measnt to say a CTL?


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## BMWSTUD25

I have tested both. I have used a tracked Cat before but never actually used a tracked Bobcat. I spent the better part of a whole day at our last farm days demoing them both. Dont get me wrong the Bobcat is a nice machine, I just think the cat is better. Have you checked out the new style big Cat skids? They are a whole different ball game starting in I believe 2008? though I could be off. I spent so much time testing them out that day the Cat rep wanted me to get the Bobcat rep to bring over his t300 and play a few tug of war games with the Cat 297C, needless to say the Bobcat rep wanted no part of this :laughing:

any body else using a newer, larger CAT skid to push snow??


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## pch1

hitachiman 200;997301 said:


> Total cost is about average then for a skid, Just curios seeing that you are running in abrasive material why use a 7 series and not a 9?


I think you will find similar per hour cost, I got 2000 hours of service out of 1 set of tracks and I think you are go to receive 800 to 1000 hours of service on the 9 series steel tracks. Most of the guys around here are getting 800 to 1000 hours of service out of the bobcat tracks. And that is the projection on the Cat steel tracks. And I like the less aggressive tread on the turf in the summer.


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## hitachiman 200

jomama45;997316 said:


> Thanks for elaborating, that's far more than I would have ever fathomed. At first, I didn't realize you had depreciation costs figured in. Guess a CTL isn't in my near future.
> 
> Than I must be one lucky SOB, because my numbers aren't even in that ballpark for a skid. Unless you measnt to say a CTL?


Sorry, I did mean CTL


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## hitachiman 200

pch1;997350 said:


> I think you will find similar per hour cost, I got 2000 hours of service out of 1 set of tracks and I think you are go to receive 800 to 1000 hours of service on the 9 series steel tracks. Most of the guys around here are getting 800 to 1000 hours of service out of the bobcat tracks. And that is the projection on the Cat steel tracks. And I like the less aggressive tread on the turf in the summer.


I already have 1200 on the T190 and there hardly broken in yet, I should get better than 3000 on the tracks. My mini's generally run 4000 on a set. and that's including Demo work.


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## pch1

hitachiman 200;998445 said:


> I already have 1200 on the T190 and there hardly broken in yet, I should get better than 3000 on the tracks. My mini's generally run 4000 on a set. and that's including Demo work.


I sure it has to do with the material we run in, we run in sand 99% of the time and the machines are not owner operated which makes a difference. I hope you get 3000 hours I will be curious to know. I do not think the mini's tracks are comparable to the CPL tracks


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## hitachiman 200

We run in a lot of #3 pump sand, dredged out of the fraser river and contains a lot of fines. Also on demo jobs over broken concrete and rebar. Steel flashing is the worst though, cuts threw the rubber like a hot knife in butter. The mini's are running in the same environment so are subject to the same abuse although they do have an advantage of a big arm.wesport


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## heelclickerman

BMWSTUD25 said:


> bobcat 300 and a CAT 277 really arent apples to apples if we are going to compare them


Lmao... A newer cat like a 277D is 10 times the machine any bobcat will ever be! I own both.


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