# Trying to get insurance



## RoseMan806 (Mar 7, 2005)

I am a single 3/4 ton truck with an 8' plow. I started a DBA last fall. I am subcontracted by another company to help with snow removal. I send a bill after each event and get paid via a check. I expect to get my first 1099 this spring for last season. The big boss was audited this past winter and now needs a certificate of general liability from me. I have been getting quotes for $4,500 and up. 

I still need to switch my truck over to a commercial auto policy incase there is an accident while plowing since my regular auto policy would not pay in that scenario. The quote for commercial auto insurance for plowing was $5,100 

I spoke with a few companies-some want the GL paid in full upfront with no refunds, others state I am too small of an operation to even insure and my commercial auto policy should cover it. My total income last winter was about $4,500 and that is without subtracting fuel, maintenance, etc. 

How does someone ever expect to start a legitimate business when I am the sole proprietor with no employees and can not even open an insurance policy. 

At this point its just not worth it.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

You guys on the East Coast have it rough as hell. I've heard of quotes even higher than that in your area. You DO need a commercial policy for your truck as well. Well, at least around here you do. At the rates you're describing it doesn't even pay to be a sub-contractor. Might be better off either now plowing at all, or get your own contracts yourself so your profit margin is higher to justify the cost of insurance.


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## RoseMan806 (Mar 7, 2005)

It sucks! I'm hoping to get around the GL policy by getting paid as "shop labor" instead of being paid for snowplowing. Its either so crazy it will work or my plowing career is over.


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## MK97 (Oct 9, 2013)

RoseMan806;1876223 said:


> It sucks! I'm hoping to get around the GL policy by getting paid as "shop labor" instead of being paid for snowplowing. Its either so crazy it will work or my plowing career is over.


I wouldn't brag about that. Seeing as if you damage anything, or hurt someone you wont have insurance to cover you.

One of the reasons those of us who actually pay, deal with high premiums. Thanks...


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## RoseMan806 (Mar 7, 2005)

MK97;1876268 said:


> I wouldn't brag about that. Seeing as if you damage anything, or hurt someone you wont have insurance to cover you.
> 
> One of the reasons those of us who actually pay, deal with high premiums. Thanks...


Sorry!

Was not trying to brag about it at all. I'm not out to cheat the system or screw anyone over. Id like to do it the right way. I just want to be covered and make some money. I have a $1,900 GL policy for shrinkwraping boats so I try to do the right things.

The company who is contracted to clear the lot has the GL policy and the sub contractor that I work for also has the GL policy. I work for the sub contractor. I still need to contact my insurance company to see if getting a commercial auto policy for plowing would cover an accident, or damage while out working. As for the slip and fall and whether I need a GL being a subcontractor for the sub contractor is unknown. If it have to get a GL policy then I am out of business.


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## MK97 (Oct 9, 2013)

RoseMan806;1876280 said:


> Sorry!
> 
> Was not trying to brag about it at all. I'm not out to cheat the system or screw anyone over. Id like to do it the right way. I just want to be covered and make some money.
> 
> The company who is contracted to clear the lot has the GL policy and the sub contractor that I work for also has the GL policy. I work for the sub contractor. I still need to contact my insurance company to see if getting a commercial auto policy for plowing would cover an accident, or damage while out working. As for the slip and fall and weather I need a GL being a subcontractor for the sub contractor is unknown. If it have to get a GL policy then I am out of business.


A commercial auto policy wont cover you, you need a general liability policy. Do a search here, one of the members is an insurance agent who may be able to help.


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## RoseMan806 (Mar 7, 2005)

MK97;1876290 said:


> A commercial auto policy wont cover you, you need a general liability policy. Do a search here, one of the members is an insurance agent who may be able to help.


I've been searching and calling all the local agents. All are about the same.

As for the "shop labor" payment system. I didn't know how that was supposed to work-What if someone saw my truck in the lot right before they fell down and wanted to make sure I was held responsible. I assume lawyers would eventually find me and I'd be screwed.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Sounds like you need a raise lol. I'm amazed at your price for commercial. Hell I'm 21, with 2 accidents and a ticket or two on my record, and I pay $2,400 a year. That's for two vehicles. Commercial policy on both, full coverage on one, and a one million policy on both. Wow. How the hell can you guys even do business out there? Move away from that crap.


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## RoseMan806 (Mar 7, 2005)

beanz27;1876296 said:


> Sounds like you need a raise lol. I'm amazed at your price for commercial. Hell I'm 21, with 2 accidents and a ticket or two on my record, and I pay $2,400 a year. That's for two vehicles. Commercial policy on both, full coverage on one, and a one million policy on both. Wow. How the hell can you guys even do business out there? Move away from that crap.


Thats it, I'm screwed. I have a commercial drivers license and a excellent driving record.


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## MK97 (Oct 9, 2013)

See what he can do for you

http://www.plowsite.com/member.php?u=64782


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

That seems to high


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## allagashpm (Sep 29, 2012)

That is wicked high. Is slip nd fall required? I would skip that and Make sure you're not responsible via the contract you sign with the guy you sub for. Also you may be able to bundle everything into a gl for your shrink wrapping as well as plowing. I think if they look at it as just plowing it may be higher. I mow ad plow, so the policy is year round. I think I pay 800 a year for a million dollar gl, including insurance for about 50k worth of equipment. My commercial auto ins is about 550-600 a year. Those prices it is not worth going out!


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## RoseMan806 (Mar 7, 2005)

I did ask about combining the policies as my general liability for marine repair and shrinkwrapping is a year-round. They stated the policies cannot be combined and must remain separate.


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## Bill Grey (Oct 9, 2014)

Roseman,
A couple of things. You may want to ask around and see if any of the brokers in your area deal with a company called PCIC. It is a Risk Retention Group. It is not an ideal situation but neither is not working. I'm in NY and some of the best rates I have for Monoline GL policies for snow removal guys are a little over $3,000. The rates in the Northeast are terrible. You can thank your fellow man for that I guess. Secondly, don't go by the post from beanz27. He's from ND. You can't compare your state to his. It's not even a comparison. I wish I could help but I'm not licensed in your state.

Good luck............


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

I talked to a different insurance broker today just for a quote and they said that their clients that do snow plowing in the winter just increased their coverage to $1,000,000 for the winter and then in the spring they just drop it back down to the typical 100/300


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## Diesel Dan (Sep 8, 2012)

I carry commercial auto and 1m of general liability for my LLC for around $1,000 a year in MI.


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## RoseMan806 (Mar 7, 2005)

Getting two more quotes this coming week. I was told I don't need a GL policy. The contractor only wants me to have a commercial auto policy and add the contractor as additionally insured. Any slip and fall issues will be directed to the contractor. This is all coming from my boss's insurance agent. This might be easier for me to afford now. Any of this make sense?


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Bill Grey;1876599 said:


> Roseman,
> A couple of things. You may want to ask around and see if any of the brokers in your area deal with a company called PCIC. It is a Risk Retention Group. It is not an ideal situation but neither is not working. I'm in NY and some of the best rates I have for Monoline GL policies for snow removal guys are a little over $3,000. The rates in the Northeast are terrible. You can thank your fellow man for that I guess. Secondly, don't go by the post from beanz27. He's from ND. You can't compare your state to his. It's not even a comparison. I wish I could help but I'm not licensed in your state.
> 
> Good luck............


Agreed its not really a fair comparison.


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## MK97 (Oct 9, 2013)

RoseMan806;1877271 said:


> Getting two more quotes this coming week. I was told I don't need a GL policy. The contractor only wants me to have a commercial auto policy and add the contractor as additionally insured. Any slip and fall issues will be directed to the contractor. This is all coming from my boss's insurance agent. This might be easier for me to afford now. Any of this make sense?


That makes no sense actually. Why would he take on the liability for your work? Think like this, would you be willing to hire a random sub-contractor then assume all responsibility?

Of course he doesn't care if you have a GL policy. I would almost bet money if someone falls, he'll point them right to you for compensation.


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

MK97;1877308 said:


> That makes no sense actually. Why would he take on the liability for your work? Think like this, would you be willing to hire a random sub-contractor then assume all responsibility?
> 
> Of course he doesn't care if you have a GL policy. I would almost bet money if someone falls, he'll point them right to you for compensation.


So this has caused me to think in a different angle. I'm subbed to plow on all these lots but then my boss comes after & does all the salting. Half the time they use treated salt or it doesn't work or they run out and just do the lanes. Sometimes they try to burn off a lttle without plowing. So if someone slips and falls I'm responsible for it but they put the deicer down and chose what kind to use and how heavy it was spread out? Something just doesn't seen right.


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## CashinH&P (Jan 14, 2012)

Bill Grey;1876599 said:


> Roseman,
> A couple of things. You may want to ask around and see if any of the brokers in your area deal with a company called PCIC. It is a Risk Retention Group. It is not an ideal situation but neither is not working. I'm in NY and some of the best rates I have for Monoline GL policies for snow removal guys are a little over $3,000. The rates in the Northeast are terrible. You can thank your fellow man for that I guess. Secondly, don't go by the post from beanz27. He's from ND. You can't compare your state to his. It's not even a comparison. I wish I could help but I'm not licensed in your state.
> 
> Good luck............


Its not a terrible comparison. I am from New Hampshire, have 2 speeding tickets, a following to close ticket(tailgating) and an accident (all before I was 19, Im 21 now) and I pay $3,000 for a full coverage commercial policy on 2 trucks and a 1 million GL policy for my company.


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## pnoone (Nov 25, 2014)

After reading a bunch of insurance related posts I this site the general consensus seems to be in many states GL insurance isn't required if you are a sub- only if you are the contractor. Seems like since most contracts required a certificate of insurance to be on file any GL claims would be directed to the contractor who had to submit the COI as part of the bid. But I'm definitely no expert. Just got a commercial auto quite today on a Ram 2500 with 8' plow for $1200/year for 500/250/100 liability coverage. I'm in Baltimore, so I guess you could call that the southern northeast for comparison's sake.


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