# '13 or newer Rams with the DEF system



## JustJeff

Just curious, is there anybody else with a '13 or newer Ram with a Cummins having problems with their DEF system? I've had mine into the dealership six or seven times having problems with it. Just want to know if I'm the only one.


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## buildinon

I am waiting to see if DODGE is buying my truck back or fixing it with the recall :/


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## 1olddogtwo

Sounds like it needs a PS special.


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## Mark Oomkes

buildinon;2021469 said:


> I am waiting to see if DODGE is buying my truck back or fixing it with the recall :/


Does it have DEF?

Not a single problem with my DEF system. Driving around town I'm getting close to 5,000 miles out of a full tank.


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## SnoFarmer

cumminsfourm.com.
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/

yes, for some, issues have popped up with the def system.

as for the recall buy back, not all trucks are going to be offered it..
& your not going to make out like a bandit, but you will get a deal on a new ram.....


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## JustJeff

SnoFarmer;2021501 said:


> cumminsfourm.com.
> http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/
> 
> yes, for some, issues have popped up with the def system.
> 
> as for the recall buy back, not all trucks are going to be offered it..
> & your not going to make out like a bandit, but you will get a deal on a new ram.....


I sure wish I could find a way to get them to either buy mine back or get a decent deal on a new model. The last dealership I went to told me that there must have been a foreign substance in the DEF tank which caused it to stop working, and they told me I should replace the entire DEF system to the tune of 5,500 bucks! They don't want to warranty it. Truck has less than 30K on the clock and I've been having problems with it from day one. I've even contacted the Cummins company, and they told me that they can't touch it while it's under warranty, and even when the warranty has expired there are only a few things that they are allowed to work on for some reason.

Or I'd like to find a way to get rid of the entire system and still be able to pass emissions. Somebody told me (I don't know if it's true or not), that you can't disable or remove the DEF system because the truck won't run without it. I don't know how that can be true since mine hasn't been working for the last six months or so, and it's running just fine other than the check engine light being on.


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## SnoFarmer

There in there lies the rub.
Tony owners the place, (ram) and they buy the engines from cummins
Without a warranty as you found out.

The recalls are over a steering component recall that was a failure 
(A recall on a recall insued that took years for sure t get service,
Then a bunch of bad steering gear boxes had brittle shafts.

I don't thing the def has gotten to the recall point.


Ps they like to deny a warnty work over forgien fluids.

You may want to look at the vents on the top of your tank and run a hose from then to a vent cap , it's the 1# place for water to get into the tank.

I love my cummins I deal with the wrapper .....

Ps I was at the local cummins power and they are going to run my rack when I get to 100k.
They will help, just tell them you truck is flaged and your on your own for repairs

Delets, at some point your truck should go into limp mode 40 mph tops then just stop.
EFI live can shut the emissions off but your warnty is gone and you'll have to refash it and put the emissions back on to pass emissions ...
No testing in my part of the woods....
What's a power train warnty?


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## 1olddogtwo

No emission test here in the great state of ILL.

Every diesel I've owned has been, lets say.....Reworked


They do test diesel, just not out weight class.


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## JustJeff

Pat, there IS emissions in IL. I've been going through it for years. But it's a regional thing. I don't think the Rockford area has it either, but we do have it here. But I don't know what you mean when you say "They do test diesel, just not out weight class". You meant our weight class, right? And they don't test the diesels on superduty's?


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## 1olddogtwo

I think 16000 and above are tested, driving right now can't do a lot of research


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## 1olddogtwo

OK, its 14K and above.

My 350 gvw is 11,300 or 11,500. Either way its below the threshold. 

I guess I should really upgrade my plate from B to a D but I've had it since 1999 why change it now


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## JustJeff

Yes Pat, I just checked, and I think you're right. It sure can be confusing though!
http://www.epa.illinois.gov/topics/.../vehicle-emissions-testing/faqs/testing/index


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## OneBadDodge06

Do these have a dpf on them still?


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## JustJeff

Honestly, I don't even know what a DPF system is.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc

You may want to go back to the dealer and give them a "friendly reminder" on the warranty for emissions/safety components. Items like seatbelts, cat converters and such usually have a much higher warranty period on them. They can get into some federal issues if they aren't fixing that stuff and fast. If your truck is under the 3yr/36k warranty, there is no way in heck they shouldn't be fixing it pronto.


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## JustJeff

Derek, I would think so as well, and agree with you, but as posted above, the last dealer insisted that there was a foreign liquid in my DEF tank that would void the warranty. They had a little glass jar or some clear liquid in it that they said the tech removed from the tank. It smelled too. I don't know how they got that, because the DEF that goes in the DEF tank is blue. I'm at a loss. My plan is to take it to a friend of mine who's a mechanic, have him drain the tank, put some fresh DEF in the tank and then take it to another dealer and see what happens. Don't know if it will work or not, but at this point it's worth a try. If they still won't warranty it I'll take it to a new dealer and trade it in. I'm still under the 3/36 warranty, and I believe this would fall under the 100K powertrain warranty anyway. And I even bought a bumper to bumper 100K warranty in addition. Anyway, if I can't get it fixed and take it to yet another new dealer to trade it in, when they look at it and see that the check engine light is on, I'll tell them that it's still under warranty, and should be able to trade it in with no problem. Hopefully anyway. It's too bad too, because other than this DEF problem I've had no other issues, and love the truck.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc

Harleyjeff;2022201 said:


> Derek, I would think so as well, and agree with you, but as posted above, the last dealer insisted that there was a foreign liquid in my DEF tank that would void the warranty. They had a little glass jar or some clear liquid in it that they said the tech removed from the tank. It smelled too. I don't know how they got that, because the DEF that goes in the DEF tank is blue. I'm at a loss. My plan is to take it to a friend of mine who's a mechanic, have him drain the tank, put some fresh DEF in the tank and then take it to another dealer and see what happens. Don't know if it will work or not, but at this point it's worth a try. If they still won't warranty it I'll take it to a new dealer and trade it in. I'm still under the 3/36 warranty, and I believe this would fall under the 100K powertrain warranty anyway. And I even bought a bumper to bumper 100K warranty in addition. Anyway, if I can't get it fixed and take it to yet another new dealer to trade it in, when they look at it and see that the check engine light is on, I'll tell them that it's still under warranty, and should be able to trade it in with no problem. Hopefully anyway. It's too bad too, because other than this DEF problem I've had no other issues, and love the truck.


Nope. Have them prove it to you. Ask to see the lab report from where they sent that "foreign material" they found in your tank to a lab and had it tested and see what it is. They do this all the time with engine oil when an engine manufacturer or oil company doesn't want to warranty an engine by blaming it on an oil contaminant or a use of non approved grade of oil. Bet they don't have one. Next, were you there when they drained the tank and you saw that stuff in the jar come from your truck? Bet not. How do you know that isn't a jar they keep up in the service manager's office desk to pull out at random when they need it to explain away something they don't know how to or want to fix? Then I would ask to see the defect in the tank or its seal where the foreign material got in there because you KNOW you didn't put it in there. Like I said, I think I would push a little harder before I caved in and ditched the truck, especially if you paid extra for an additional warranty. If all else fails, tell them you are going to contact the parent company Chrysler/Dodge and possibly involve your attorney. I bet they find some way to fix it under warranty.


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## JustJeff

Derek I agree. I'm going to do that, but first I'm going to drain the DEF tank like I said, and refill it with new DEF, then if they try the same thing I'll be positive that they're trying to pull a fast one on me. I just hate having to jump through all of these hoops for warranty work when I've done nothing wrong. It shouldn't be this way. I can still trade it in an get a full refund on the extended warranty since it hasn't even started yet.


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## SnoFarmer

I agree some dealers do pull crap,

But why is ram responsible for what is put in the tank?
I'm not saying you put somthing in there but someone else could have.

This part did not fail becuse of a defect, as far as we know.

Do I think it's ruined no just need to be cleaned out and the codes cleared,
Cycle the key a few times without starting it, they give her a try.

Jmo


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## JustJeff

SnoFarmer, are you sure EFI Live would bypass the DEF system? If so, I could deal with that too as long as someone could clear the existing codes and turn off the check engine light. I guess I could live without the warranty if this worked because it's the only problem I've ever had with the truck. I've got an EFI dealer not too far away, so I may check into that.


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## 1olddogtwo

Dpf would need to fall off the truck.


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## SnoFarmer

Harleyjeff;2022259 said:


> SnoFarmer, are you sure EFI Live would bypass the DEF system? If so, I could deal with that too as long as someone could clear the existing codes and turn off the check engine light. I guess I could live without the warranty if this worked because it's the only problem I've ever had with the truck. I've got an EFI dealer not too far away, so I may check into that.


Yes, you can even do programming yourself if you wish or get proven tunes.

Take a gander at http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/
A lot of guys useing it and a few who sell it.


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## cl733

SnoFarmer;2022317 said:


> Yes, you can even do programming yourself if you wish or get proven tunes.
> 
> Take a gander at http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/
> A lot of guys useing it and a few who sell it.


 Its just not that easy on a 2013-2014 truck , yeah sure it can be done. But its not simple to do. First you have to unlock the ecm to program it, to do that you have to take it out and send it away to unlock it which is 250$ US or there abouts plus shipping or you buy a bully dog GT downloader with an unlock cable, which will allow you to unlock your ecm in your driveway, the down loader doesn't do any deletes and will set you back im guessing about 600 $ then you have to re-program your ecm to delete you def , and efi live will do that. if you are going for the reprogram you can pay someone to do it or you buy either an autocal or a V2 programmer , and I would recommend a csp4 switch with the csp4 switch you can flash in a stock(with def deleted) and 3 other power levels eg tow , performance , economy or what ever you decide, and switch tunes via a switch on the fly. writing you own delete tunes is highly unlikely unless you have a lot of help , its not all cheap but with a 5mpg increase in economy and zero problems , loose the egr, delete dpf systems, live longer and run stronger, you don't even have to put in the csp4 switch you can just flash in your stock tune with any deletes you choose and drive without check engine lights. interested yet picture this you got buddies that want to do their trucks too so you buy a V2 efi live programmer , that's the one I would recommend because with a V2 you can buy tunes from anyone and flash them in an autocal locks you to purchasing tunes from the person you buy the autocal from so if you have a problem with dealing with them then too bad no options


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## SnoFarmer

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2013-general-discussion/1432681-2013-tuning-f-q.html


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## cl733

SnoFarmer;2026516 said:


> http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2013-general-discussion/1432681-2013-tuning-f-q.html


Now that is all good info. People should just be aware of the differences between the autocal and the V2 both are efi live based you can do 200 trucks with a V2 so that brings the price down of purchasing a programmer. Hope you have lots of friends in need. But of course there are still programming tune file charges and vin licensing per each truck but when it's flashed you are done


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## JustJeff

cl733;2026536 said:


> Now that is all good info. People should just be aware of the differences between the autocal and the V2 both are efi live based you can do 200 trucks with a V2 so that brings the price down of purchasing a programmer. Hope you have lots of friends in need. But of course there are still programming tune file charges and vin licensing per each truck but when it's flashed you are done


Just ordered EFI Live. The shop that is installing it is doing it for around 1,300, which includes a hand-held controller for self-tuning. They own the Bully Dog for the ECM unlock, so that won't cost me anything. I only have to change one exhaust part which I got for 233.00. So, all in all, it doesn't sound too bad at all assuming it will eliminate all of my DEF problems for as long as I own the truck.


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## cl733

Harleyjeff;2027953 said:


> Just ordered EFI Live. The shop that is installing it is doing it for around 1,300, which includes a hand-held controller for self-tuning. They own the Bully Dog for the ECM unlock, so that won't cost me anything. I only have to change one exhaust part which I got for 233.00. So, all in all, it doesn't sound too bad at all assuming it will eliminate all of my DEF problems for as long as I own the truck.


Are you going to put in the csp switch there isn't any better time than now before you get your tune file wrote


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## JustJeff

cl733;2027959 said:


> Are you going to put in the csp switch there isn't any better time than now before you get your tune file wrote


I don't know what that is. Will you please explain? First diesel so I'm still on the learning curve. The guy at the EFI Dealer didn't explain this to me.


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## OneBadDodge06

You can remove DPF, cut a square hole on the side of the DPF, take a hammer and chisel to dislodge particulate media, empty, reweld square cut out back to the dpf, and no one will ever know. Think you'll still need a programmer to shut down the sensors on the DPF......its "deleted" by appearances, and no one will ever know.


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## SnoFarmer

OneBadDodge06;2029600 said:


> You can remove DPF, cut a square hole on the side of the DPF, take a hammer and chisel to dislodge particulate media, empty, reweld square cut out back to the dpf, and no one will ever know. Think you'll still need a programmer to shut down the sensors on the DPF......its "deleted" by appearances, and no one will ever know.


if someone was going to throw thousands of $$$ down the drain, why would you cut a hole in it>
just unbolt it and clean it out threw the big holeS on ether end.
and yes, you will still need to reprogram the ecm. ie a tuner.

so if your going to delete, you need to get a delete pipe, and the proper tuner or on earlier trucks sims.(get stanless) call RSD
put the dpf in the rafters and save it for trade in, or if you have to go threw inspection.

It will only pass a visual inspection. with a hallowed out dpf and don't for get the NOX.
As soon as they (dot) pluges in their tool thee gig is up.


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## Mark Oomkes

I wonder if Volkswagen makes a truck. Thumbs Up:laughing:


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## SnoFarmer

Mark Oomkes;2029696 said:


> I wonder if Volkswagen makes a truck. Thumbs Up:laughing:


To bad they didn't buy Ram instead of Tony


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## JustJeff

Truck is now in the shop having some recalls taken care of. As soon as it's out it's going to the tuner's shop to have the EFI Live installed, and then directly to the exhaust shop to change the exhaust part that needs to be changed for a tuned vehicle. Don't have to worry about emissions here in IL as it's a diesel with a GVWR of less than 14K, so I don't care. When I eventually trade it in I'm not real worried about them knowing that either, because I've never seem them raise the hood at a dealership for appraisal. And really, I just don't care. I'm just tired of dealing with dealers that can't fix the problem, so I'm going to eliminate it.


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## jhenderson9196

You may care when you trade. Nowadays a lot of dealers make you sign a statement saying all emissions equipment is on the vehicle and functional. It doesn't matter whether you do testing or not, fed law says it must be there. If it's not, and you say it is, they'll charge list price for parts and labor + court costs. I'd hang onto the stock stuff just in case.


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## JustJeff

jhenderson9196;2029964 said:


> You may care when you trade. Nowadays a lot of dealers make you sign a statement saying all emissions equipment is on the vehicle and functional. It doesn't matter whether you do testing or not, fed law says it must be there. If it's not, and you say it is, they'll charge list price for parts and labor + court costs. I'd hang onto the stock stuff just in case.


NEVER heard of signing an exhaust/emissions statement when trading in a vehicle before. And we trade vehicles often in our house. Maybe it's a regional thing in your part of the Country, but I call B.S. There are many guys on this site that have tuned trucks that have never mentioned what you're talking about. And honestly, at this point I really don't care as long as it gets rid of my DEF problems and check engine light.


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## jhenderson9196

It's a federal crime for a licensed dealer to sell a vehicle that doesn't meet federal emissions standards. Or do you call BS on that too? Maybe they don't do or near you, but you Illinois folks don't have much of a rep for honesty or integrity either. Places that adhere to emission requirements don't risk a 10K list retro fit.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc

jhenderson9196;2030890 said:


> It's a federal crime for a licensed dealer to sell a vehicle that doesn't meet federal emissions standards. Or do you call BS on that too? Maybe they don't do or near you, but you Illinois folks don't have much of a rep for honesty or integrity either. Places that adhere to emission requirements don't risk a 10K list retro fit.


Have you seen the news lately? Do the words VW diesel mean anything to you?


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## JustJeff

jhenderson9196;2030890 said:


> It's a federal crime for a licensed dealer to sell a vehicle that doesn't meet federal emissions standards. Or do you call BS on that too? Maybe they don't do or near you, but you Illinois folks don't have much of a rep for honesty or integrity either. Places that adhere to emission requirements don't risk a 10K list retro fit.


That very well could be, but unless a check engine light is on they have no reason to look for anything wrong with emissions since this class vehicle is exempt from emissions in IL. It has nothing to do with IL being honest or dishonest, for whatever reasons, the powers that be decided to make this class vehicle exempt. And by the way, it's a 5,500 dollar cost to replace the entire DEF system. And I'm not removing it, just disabling it.


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## jhenderson9196

So what's going to happen when the DPF plugs because the rest of the system is inop? As for local emissions laws, what happens when the truck crosses state lines. I just bought my truck in Ma. RI has no testing as of now but if it was the other way around and the truck went from RI to Ma and didn't pass the RI dealer would be responsible. I'd also like to know where you're buying parts? Start with $120 hr labor. List on the DPF is over 3k when I asked my dealer, then add cat, sensors etc and a whole exhaust because most guys go aftermarket. They know you can't run a deleted truck with a complete factory setup for long.

PAs far as VW goes,the parent co is liable because they duped the EPA. The dealers sold brand new vehicles as delivered from the mfg and sertified by the EPA. And as far as I know those vehicles are no longer being sold by the dealers.


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## 1olddogtwo

FWIW


My 08,10,11,12,13 and 14 have all been deleted. Never once have I ever had a problem, I do return them back to stock when trading in. I accidentally trade the last truck in with DPF on with H&S still programed in stock mode. No big deal. 

I'm not saying its right or wrong to delete, its the way it is.


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## JustJeff

jhenderson9196, I got my numbers directly from the dealer who wanted to replace the entire DEF system on my dime. So argue however you want, but that came from the dealership service manager. And you know what? If the f'ing dealership could fix my DEF system under warranty as they should have, I would have never considered deleting it. But as stated when this thread initially started, I've been to three dealerships five or six times and nobody has a clue how to fix it. One of the service managers said the manufacturer is aware of the problem and also has no answer how to fix it. And now one dealership says to replace the whole thing at my expense to make it work again??? You'd dump the 5,500 bucks to fix it and not even know if the new one will work or not? Ya, right, give me a break. I've done my due diligence in trying to have it fixed numerous times and now I'm done. I'll have a more powerful truck, better mileage, and no DEF problems for less than half of the cost that the dealer wanted to replace the DEF system.

Also, you DON'T have to replace the entire exhaust system if you don't want to. MY EFI Live dealer told me I only had to replace one section of it, and it cost me 233.00 for the part.

So, when you buy your next used truck you'd better check the exhaust system for yourself, because it very well could be mine. And it would suck to be you. Oh but according to what you said, you're not subject to emissions anyway, so your complaints are irrelevant. Again, if the dealership had just done the right thing one of the numerous times I had been there, this whole subject would not even be being discussed.


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## jhenderson9196

No, it would suck to be whoever sold it to me. Just deleting the fluid system isn't a complete delete. That would include the EGR and the EGR cooler also. You said all the parts were going to remain intact. I guess plans change.


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## 1olddogtwo

EGR and cooler as well as DPF tank can stay. The one section of exhaust the needs to be replaced is the DPF itself.


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## JustJeff

1olddogtwo;2031291 said:


> EGR and cooler as well as DPF tank can stay. The one section of exhaust the needs to be replaced is the DPF itself.


Exactly, and that's what this is for.

And I believe I can delete the EGR if I want to as well.


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## 1olddogtwo

Yes, it all can be removed if a person wants.... I'm not as familiar with Ram's 6.7.


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## MXZ1983

Trucks all over get deleted with only sections at a time or what not. What's the big deal if he wants to delete his truck?


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## jhenderson9196

This all arose because I warned a previous poster to hang onto the factory parts for trade in time. I don't care if someone deletes their truck or not.


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## cl733

cl733;2026512 said:


> Its just not that easy on a 2013-2014 truck , yeah sure it can be done. But its not simple to do. First you have to unlock the ecm to program it, to do that you have to take it out and send it away to unlock it which is 250$ US or there abouts plus shipping or you buy a bully dog GT downloader with an unlock cable, which will allow you to unlock your ecm in your driveway, the down loader doesn't do any deletes and will set you back im guessing about 600 $ then you have to re-program your ecm to delete you def , and efi live will do that. if you are going for the reprogram you can pay someone to do it or you buy either an autocal or a V2 programmer , and I would recommend a csp4 switch with the csp4 switch you can flash in a stock(with def deleted) and 3 other power levels eg tow , performance , economy or what ever you decide, and switch tunes via a switch on the fly. writing you own delete tunes is highly unlikely unless you have a lot of help , its not all cheap but with a 5mpg increase in economy and zero problems , loose the egr, delete dpf systems, live longer and run stronger, you don't even have to put in the csp4 switch you can just flash in your stock tune with any deletes you choose and drive without check engine lights. interested yet picture this you got buddies that want to do their trucks too so you buy a V2 efi live programmer , that's the one I would recommend because with a V2 you can buy tunes from anyone and flash them in an autocal locks you to purchasing tunes from the person you buy the autocal from so if you have a problem with dealing with them then too bad no options


 I even stand corrected , there is also another way of not involving any one else to do deletes, especially for newer dodges, its the bully dog tuner downloader, its not on their own site because they cant sell in in the US , but its showing up in Canada under the part number 40428 or 40928 not sure of the differences between those 2. It will work the same as a race mini max do all the deletes you desire. Plus it also turns into a instrument cluster as well.
I like the efi live way of doing it , it doesn't add anything to the working system of the ecm , so there is nothing new to go hay wire


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## John_DeereGreen

All this BS is a perfect reason not to buy a modern diesel unless your GCVW is 20K plus daily.

Good luck Jeff...


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## JustJeff

John_DeereGreen;2032328 said:


> All this BS is a perfect reason not to buy a modern diesel unless your GCVW is 20K plus daily.
> 
> Good luck Jeff...


You are correct Sir, and thank you. Had I known in '12 what changes were going to be made for the '13 model I probably would have bought sooner. Truck's going in tomorrow morning for tuner install and DPF removal. Hopefully this will eliminate all future exhaust related problems in the future.


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## 1olddogtwo

here's mine....


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## JustJeff

Gotta love that! What tuner did you go with on your Powerstroke?


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## JustJeff

Anybody need one of these?  Truck is now tuned and deleted. No more check engine light, more balls, and better fuel economy. Thanks to the guys who told me how to do this. I really appreciate it.


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## jhenderson9196

I thought you were leaving everything intact?


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## JustJeff

EGR is still there for now, but the DPF had to go after the tune. I'll hang onto it and put it back on when trading it in.


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## jhenderson9196

Where's the thumbs up button? This kinda got out of hand.


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## SnoFarmer

........Thumbs Up


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## JustJeff

Here you go Pat.


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## underESTIMATED

Harleyjeff;2021462 said:


> Just curious, is there anybody else with a '13 or newer Ram with a Cummins having problems with their DEF system? I've had mine into the dealership six or seven times having problems with it. Just want to know if I'm the only one.


I'd have to pull a report in Quickbooks to verify, but I want to say my 14 4500 barely makes it 3k miles in between DEF fill ups.


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## JustJeff

That sounds about right. Maybe 4K. I don't worry about it anymore though.


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## Mark Oomkes

I was close to 5k on my last tank full.


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## jhenderson9196

I just turned 15,000 on my 15 3500. It was delivered full of def. I have put 7.5 gals in and the guage reads 2/3 . Approx 3500 miles towing an 18,500 gvw GN, all on secondary roads with many hills and stops and starts.


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## Four Seasons

That's cool that you have a real exhaust now without the foolish mess they come with. But you could have lemon lawed that ***** five times over. You might be too nice.


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## JustJeff

Four Seasons;2101147 said:


> That's cool that you have a real exhaust now without the foolish mess they come with. But you could have lemon lawed that ***** five times over. You might be too nice.


I agree, but was not positive about it. If I remember correctly, the lemon law applied to ongoing problems within the first year, and I was beyond that time frame. Besides, even if I would have won I'd have just gotten another one with possibly the same problems. Didn't want that. Now I've got the truck that I wish I'd have gotten from the factory. 550 HP, 1,100 ft. lbs. of torque, and 4 MPG better mileage.


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## Four Seasons

Is it just the aftermarket exhaust and computer that's upping the power that much?


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## cl733

When i did mine i put my stock file back into it, nothing changed, of course less the complete stock exaust, and an egr delete, it ran alot more freely, seemed like a little more thrust, but my mileage on a 584 mile trip took me up to 28.6 mpg (canadian gallon) 
Ive since put in the 5 position tune switch that gives me up to an extra 90 hp. 90 isnt a whole lot compared to most of the aftermarket tuners that give you up to 150hp, but even at 90hp with a camping trailer on its pretty impressive and still really reliable.


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## 1olddogtwo

Four Seasons;2105531 said:


> Is it just the aftermarket exhaust and computer that's upping the power that much?


Yes, depending on engine, brand, etc...

On my 08 Ford 6.4, I added 325 HP to the rear wheels just by deleting and tuning.


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## RIRAM2500HD

For these reasons I'll stick with my good ole Hemi!


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## JustJeff

Hemis are great engines. I've had them, and they're fine for plowing snow, but if you do any kind of heavy hauling on a regular basis I'm still a diesel advocate. As well as for it's longevity.


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## 1olddogtwo

RIRAM2500HD;2135570 said:


> For these reasons I'll stick with my good ole Hemi!


https://www.yahoo.com/autos/ferrari-begin-using-hellcat-engines-2017-133045439.html


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## edgeair

RIRAM2500HD;2135570 said:


> For these reasons I'll stick with my good ole Hemi!


I rented a hemi this winter for one of my snow crews. Used it yesterday to pick up a side by side atv about 300 miles away. Made me sick to see how much extra fuel it uses compared to my diesel even pulling such a light load with relatively light wind resistance.

I get better mileage with the diesel pulling a 40' toy hauler 5th wheel than I got with the hemi pulling a 7x12 atv trailer with 1 side by side atv on it. Its pathetic really that in this day and age the gas truck engines are so bad on fuel. I can pull a 27' travel trailer using the same fuel that the hemi uses empty. And before you say it, the hemi is getting published value for fuel mileage so there is 'nothing' wrong with it.

You won't catch me buying a gasser in anything more than a run about 1/2 ton.


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## RIRAM2500HD

Harleyjeff;2135608 said:


> Hemis are great engines. I've had them, and they're fine for plowing snow, but if you do any kind of heavy hauling on a regular basis I'm still a diesel advocate. As well as for it's longevity.


 I've seen just regular 5.7 Hemi engines worked hard with over 300K on the clock. The new 6.4 Hemi is suppose to be even more durable with a forged steel crank & oil piston squirters , and magnesium parts. The gasser vs diesel durability issue has evened up as far as I see it. Especially with all of the emissions crap on the diesel motors reducing their longevity . I would not want to own a diesel after the factory warranty was up nowadays. I wil agree however that if you constantly tow anything over 10K pounds on a daily basis a oil burner is the way to go but that is a specific demographic need.


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## RIRAM2500HD

edgeair;2135688 said:


> I rented a hemi this winter for one of my snow crews. Used it yesterday to pick up a side by side atv about 300 miles away. Made me sick to see how much extra fuel it uses compared to my diesel even pulling such a light load with relatively light wind resistance.
> 
> I get better mileage with the diesel pulling a 40' toy hauler 5th wheel than I got with the hemi pulling a 7x12 atv trailer with 1 side by side atv on it. Its pathetic really that in this day and age the gas truck engines are so bad on fuel. I can pull a 27' travel trailer using the same fuel that the hemi uses empty. And before you say it, the hemi is getting published value for fuel mileage so there is 'nothing' wrong with it.
> 
> You won't catch me buying a gasser in anything more than a run about 1/2 ton.


What is "Pathetic" is how much replacing DEF fluid , putting in a set of New Injectors , & replacing fuel filters , exhaust components , etc when out of warranty or for that matter in warranty on a "Modern" EPA approved chocked diesel motor from any manufacturer . I'll keep my Hemi with an occasional 100K spark plug change thank you sir!


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## 1olddogtwo

RIRAM2500HD;2135709 said:


> What is "Pathetic" is how much replacing DEF fluid , putting in a set of New Injectors , & replacing fuel filters , exhaust components , etc when out of warranty or for that matter in warranty on a "Modern" EPA approved chocked diesel motor from any manufacturer . I'll keep my Hemi with an occasional 100K spark plug change thank you sir!


Ur a pot stirer...why don't you move on....

No, you want to stop in a perfectly good thread talking crap. In another post YOU just inquired about the 2017 Powerstroke horsepower and torque ratings.... I think you're just jealous.

What's wrong, you can't afford one so you pick on them is that it?

Both have emissions, so ur point is mute.

Now, I don't agree with emissions standards and what's its done to the industry but it's improving. Example is the Ram EcoDiesel. Research that cause Ford and GM are.


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## RIRAM2500HD

I sir am Not jealous of today's Diesel engines . That I can assure you! 
I do however appreciate power & engineering. Todays diesels make power however the EPA crap on them is an engineering debacle I don't wish to own.


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## JustJeff

1olddogtwo;2135710 said:


> Ur a pot stirer...why don't you move on....
> 
> No, you want to stop in a perfectly good thread talking crap. In another post YOU just inquired about the 2017 Powerstroke horsepower and torque ratings.... I think you're just jealous.
> 
> What's wrong, you can't afford one so you pick on them is that it?
> 
> Both have emissions, so ur point is mute.
> 
> Now, I don't agree with emissions standards and what's its done to the industry but it's improving. Example is the Ram EcoDiesel. Research that cause Ford and GM are.


Agreed. This thread started as an informative thread, and I learned a lot thanks to your help as well as a few others. Turned my 6.7 into a whole new engine (for the better). Then this guy who doesn't own a diesel jumped in and added nothing helpful. I've owned hemi's, and liked them, but they have nothing to do with this thread. And P.S. to Rimrad, I've NEVER seen a hemi, or any other gas engine last 300K on a regular basis. EVER.


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## cl733

Im getting a little off base here but seeing as though we got a bunch of late model diesel burners here then here goes, I now own a 2014 6.7 its the 385 865 version and its got the aisin trans in it , just going down the highway it registers 70 degrees C , thats like around158 deg F its a reading from its built in sensor, sounds kinda warm for just pulling itself then compared to my 09 with a CTS monitor it shows about 115 F or less doing the same thing just cruising, does that aisin temp sound normal, would have thought it would have been way lower considering the size of it, the truck has 2400km on it now and seems consistant,


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## Whiffyspark

150 is closer to normal. 115 sounds low.


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## cl733

thats reading the internal sensor with the CTS, its usually right on with ambient temp on an over nite sit, and really consistant not letting it lock up or hit 6th until it gets past 64-66 degrees, ive seen it go to 200 when pushing up hill on short pushes with wet snow, ive got a derale remote cooler with a fan to put on it but cant figure out how to add it in paralell, with the option of turning it off, as in the winter it might cool too much and keep me from getting locked up


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## Mark Oomkes

200 isn't an issue.


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## Whiffyspark

You're worrying too much. 200 isn't going to hurt it


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