# Employee Issues With Manual Trucks



## KildonanSnowRem (Oct 17, 2015)

For those of you who have manual trucks in your fleet, (plow trucks or shovel monkey trucks), do you ever face issues with incompetent employees burning the clutch?

I am looking at picking up a new manual Chevy for the shovel crew. Do I just need to find competent employees? Is this an unnecessary concern?


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## Rat_Power_78 (Sep 16, 2008)

This has been an issue for us for several years. My feeling for a long time has been "if you are going to drive my trucks you will have to learn how to drive manual." It didn't seem right to me to have to change an existing fleet to fit the needs of employees that don't usually stick around for more than a season or two, especially in the case of our landscape trucks. Most of ours have pto-powered dumps which had always meant we needed manual trans. 

I don't think competency is the right way to put it. I'm convinced at this point it's a generation thing.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I can't believe all these kids now a days have absolutely NO idea how to drive stick. If they were stuck in a desert 100 miles from any life form and walked up on a stick shift car or truck with the keys in it, they would die right there.

My wife is one of these people by the way. I tried to teach her to drive stick multiple different times and found that it would be best for my marriage if I just let her die in a desert with the rest of them, because if she dumped that damn clutch one more time, I was going to rip her head off. I'll take my chances with the desert.


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## KildonanSnowRem (Oct 17, 2015)

Rat_Power_78;2085478 said:


> This has been an issue for us for several years. My feeling for a long time has been "if you are going to drive my trucks you will have to learn how to drive manual." It didn't seem right to me to have to change an existing fleet to fit the needs of employees that don't usually stick around for more than a season or two, especially in the case of our landscape trucks. Most of ours have pto-powered dumps which had always meant we needed manual trans.
> 
> I don't think competency is the right way to put it. I'm convinced at this point it's a generation thing.


I am of the younger generation and am not the greatest at stick, but the price difference on the truck I am looking at makes me want to become an overnight expert lol.

Do you have any issues finding people that already know how to drive stick? Would you invest time to train new employees to drive stick?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Stick in a plow truck gets old... but your left leg will be like Hans and Frans - Pumped UP by the end of a long event.

If you are pushing parking lots, I personally would not recommend it. If you are doing rally routes of streets or residential drives, they are not bad. But being stuck in a stick shift truck plowing back and forth for days in a blizzard will about make you crippled.


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

Rat_Power_78;2085478 said:


> This has been an issue for us for several years. My feeling for a long time has been "if you are going to drive my trucks you will have to learn how to drive manual." It didn't seem right to me to have to change an existing fleet to fit the needs of employees that don't usually stick around for more than a season or two, especially in the case of our landscape trucks. Most of ours have pto-powered dumps which had always meant we needed manual trans.
> 
> I don't think competency is the right way to put it. I'm convinced at this point it's a generation thing.


You're absolutely right about it being a generation thing. I find it's nearly impossible to find anyone to drive my 93 stick shift dump that we use for the landscape maintenance. Just sucks for me to be the only qualified driver of my dump!


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

I prefer a stick and never owned a vehicle with an auto up until the '15 Ford Super Duty I bought this year. 
Seems in urban area's it's harder to find people that can run a stick than in rural area's. There are some people that just don't seem to understand how to drive a stick and IMO if they can't figure that out do you really want them working for you?


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## KildonanSnowRem (Oct 17, 2015)

BUFF;2085523 said:


> There are some people that just don't seem to understand how to drive a stick and IMO if they can't figure that out do you really want them working for you?


True enough.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

KildonanSnowRem;2085499 said:


> I am of the younger generation and am not the greatest at stick, but the price difference on the truck I am looking at makes me want to become an overnight expert lol.
> 
> Do you have any issues finding people that already know how to drive stick? Would you invest time to train new employees to drive stick?


The labor pool to choose from now is very limited to say the least. Don't make it worse for yourself by further limiting your potential candidates by having to know how to drive a stick shift. Stick with auto trans and make your life less complicated.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

There are guys who know how to use a stick,but some of them tend to ride the clutch..Drove a manual Chevy plow truck for 16 yrs with my old company. After I left, the owner sold it because he didn't like using it. Unless you owned a old Neon or Fiesta or high performance car, not many cars even come with a stick .to lean with.


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## thesnowman269 (Nov 7, 2009)

This is the reason I've started to switch to automatic transmission trucks. If you hire someone that has no experience driving a manual, but take the time to teach them how. That's all fine and dandy, hook the trailer with a few thousand pounds behind him and see what happens. At least that has always been my fear


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## horizon jay (Oct 17, 2013)

Philbilly2;2085495 said:


> I can't believe all these kids now a days have absolutely NO idea how to drive stick. If they were stuck in a desert 100 miles from any life form and walked up on a stick shift car or truck with the keys in it, they would die right there.
> 
> My wife is one of these people by the way. I tried to teach her to drive stick multiple different times and found that it would be best for my marriage if I just let her die in a desert with the rest of them, because if she dumped that damn clutch one more time, I was going to rip her head off. I'll take my chances with the desert.


This is amazing! :laughing: Also why I stopped "teaching" as well.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

WIPensFan;2085533 said:


> The labor pool to choose from now is very limited to say the least. Don't make it worse for yourself by further limiting your potential candidates by having to know how to drive a stick shift. Stick with auto trans and make your life less complicated.


Exactly. I if I was buying dedicated plow trucks for my own fleet I wouldn't even consider buying a manual. Why limit my already small potential labor pool?


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

When i bought my ford f250 in 08 i had to pay extra to get it in a 5speed. You rarely see manual cars at all anymore


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

iceyman;2085641 said:


> When i bought my ford f250 in 08 i had to pay extra to get it in a 5speed. You rarely see manual cars at all anymore


Why would you have to pay more for a manual trans (assuming it was a gas truck) a auto is was a upcharge when there was a choice.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Iv'e taught people to drive sticks, but there are some people who just can not do it. One guy was a stubborn cop. He just plain didn't get it. 
I had a Chrysler Le Baron, 2.2 turbo 5 speed. Got it for couple hundred bucks, bad turbo. Got a used turbo for nothen. That thing was [email protected] fun to drive.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

BUFF;2085645 said:


> Why would you have to pay more for a manual trans (assuming it was a gas truck) a auto is was a upcharge when there was a choice.


Because it falls under a special order. Forget how much extra but it was def more than an auto on lot


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Both my kids learned how to drive a stick when they were 13yrs old on 2track roads at my uncles ranch. Manual trans is all we owned until this year.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

When I buy my estimating mustang,it will have a stick so no one else can drive it.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

iceyman;2085686 said:


> Because it falls under a special order. Forget how much extra but it was def more than an auto on lot


Well you got hosed on that deal....... I bought a new '08 6.4PSD CC with a 6spd stick. I told the my local dealer what I wanted, they did a search and found one on lot in Billings Mt equipped the way I wanted. My local dealer swapped one of their inventoried trucks for the one in Billings, they met 1/2 way and didn't charge me anything for it.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Philbilly2;2085509 said:


> Stick in a plow truck gets old... but your left leg will be like Hans and Frans - Pumped UP by the end of a long event.
> 
> If you are pushing parking lots, I personally would not recommend it. If you are doing rally routes of streets or residential drives, they are not bad. But being stuck in a stick shift truck plowing back and forth for days in a blizzard will about make you crippled.


MMMmmm Ive plowed for 28 or is it 29 years now I used an auto for 1/2 a season I HATED IT. I still use a manual. I plow driveways so lots of shifting I have no problem with it, nether does another of my drivers who drives a manual. I have a third driver that wanted an auto so he got the auto Jeep.


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

I drive my stick shift dump all day the entire landscape season and no problem with it. However, I hate using a manual truck when it comes to plowing small to medium lots or driveways. I could see plowing with a manual truck if I were doing big malls or open roads.


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## KildonanSnowRem (Oct 17, 2015)

This is a shovel monkey truck, not a plow truck. That being said, I am going with Auto. Found a killer deal. Thanks for the input guys!


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

KildonanSnowRem;2085874 said:


> This is a shovel monkey truck, not a plow truck. That being said, I am going with Auto. Found a killer deal. Thanks for the input guys!


Whoa........ we're just getting spooled up.......:laughing::laughing:


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I just put it in "M"

Hell, Semi's now come in automatic now for the handicapped


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

1olddogtwo;2085940 said:


> I just put it in "M"
> 
> Hell, Semi's now come in automatic now for the handicapped


Actually its for increase in women who want to drive big trucks.

draw any conclusion you want.


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

If you can't drive a standard you have zero business being in a semi. It amazes me how few people can drive a stick


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Most 10 wheelers I drove were automatics. Never drove a semi


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Whiffyspark;2086023 said:


> Most 10 wheelers I drove were automatics. Never drove a semi


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## Landcare - Mont (Feb 28, 2011)

theplowmeister;2085952 said:


> Actually its for increase in women who want to drive big trucks.
> 
> draw any conclusion you want.


I don't know - the woman who drives a road plow for us prefers her 10-speed International S2500 over any of the automatics.


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## Landcare - Mont (Feb 28, 2011)

peteo1;2085988 said:


> If you can't drive a standard you have zero business being in a semi. It amazes me how few people can drive a stick


Check the stats on how many trucks are produced with automatics now instead of manuals - it is the modern-day truck, straight-frame or semi.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Its progress!,the automated mechanical transmissions are the wave of the future,best of both worlds,with better fuel mileage than either automatic or standard trannies. I still miss the front crank start,not an option anymore,oh well!


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

Philbilly2;2085495 said:


> I can't believe all these kids now a days have absolutely NO idea how to drive stick. If they were stuck in a desert 100 miles from any life form and walked up on a stick shift car or truck with the keys in it, they would die right there.
> 
> My wife is one of these people by the way. I tried to teach her to drive stick multiple different times and found that it would be best for my marriage if I just let her die in a desert with the rest of them, because if she dumped that damn clutch one more time, I was going to rip her head off. I'll take my chances with the desert.


This! I had a Ram Cummins with a 6 speed and there was no way in hell the wife was learning on that. Our wives could be friends in that desert.


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## mwalsh9152 (Dec 30, 2008)

it definitely baffles me A: how many people cant drive a stick these days, and B: how many just flat out refuse to do so. 

A friend of mine recently bought the small competition tow company in town and folded it into his own. The competition was a two truck operation with both being 7.3 Powerstrokes with ZF6 manuals. Not much more bullet proof than that combination these days. Sold one, still has the wrecker, but nobody wants to drive it because its a manual 2wd. If I still worked for him, I would request that he keep it, and I would happily be the only one that messes with it. If its snowing bad, just park it for the day.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

1olddogtwo;2085940 said:


> I just put it in "M"
> 
> Hell, Semi's now come in automatic now for the handicapped


And for Defcon............:waving::waving::waving::waving:


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

BUFF;2086068 said:


> And for Defcon............:waving::waving::waving::waving:


Whoa, shoot across the lake....

Straight frame, never heard that term down here in the States.

6 Wheeler
10 Wheeler
18 Wheeler...

How many wheels on a straight frame?


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## Landcare - Mont (Feb 28, 2011)

1olddogtwo;2086072 said:


> Whoa, shoot across the lake....
> 
> Straight frame, never heard that term down here in the States.
> 
> ...


Any number you want as long as it's one unit, not a tractor (or truck)/trailer combination.


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## Landcare - Mont (Feb 28, 2011)

leigh;2086063 said:


> Its progress!,the automated mechanical transmissions are the wave of the future,best of both worlds,with better fuel mileage than either automatic or standard trannies. I still miss the front crank start,not an option anymore,oh well!


That and manual steering and brakes, vacuum-operated wipers, no defrosters, non-locking differentials, etc.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Banksy;2086064 said:


> This! I had a Ram Cummins with a 6 speed and there was no way in hell the wife was learning on that. Our wives could be friends in that desert.


Diesels are the easiest to learn on IMO. I remember the first time I drove one, I didn't know you don't need 1st lol. Now i start them in 2nd or 3rd


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

Confession time. This is my 15th year in landscape business. Never wanted to add plowing to the business but did 5 years ago. Im 33 years old now. I can honestly say I've never driven a standard truck. I have always owned gasser Chevy trucks. Mostly the 6.0 gassers.. Never have had a transmission problem. Not one. I'm one of "those guys". What I will say is two of my competitors which are friends of mine owned standard shift dodges with cummins engines for years. They both got tired of standard shift. Now this is not a bit about a Chevy ford dodge battle but they both wound up switching to used Chevy 6 liter gassers with auto and both have the same opinion. Miss the hell out of cummins power but love the comfort and having an automatic.. None of us have large fleets though. They both just have there own truck with a "shovel monkey". I have 2 trucks. It's not that I've ever been against a standard, I just stick with what I'm used to.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Have you seen the new Chevy's with the knob on the dash for backing up your boat? "Wave of the future" nothing wrong with needing the knob to back up. hay I cant back up a trailer so the knob is just fine for me...

What ever happened to people knowing how to drive? and if you find it difficult to drive a manual your not a driver.

And I look down my nose on all the Auto trans drivers. Yes Im a snob... but I CAN drive.


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Landcare - Mont;2086043 said:


> Check the stats on how many trucks are produced with automatics now instead of manuals - it is the modern-day truck, straight-frame or semi.


I understand what you're saying and I suppose it's the way of the future but when the fancy new computerized trucked goes down,and the new ones are in the shop constantly nowadays, you still have to be able to drive the old truck out back


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## sota (Jan 31, 2011)

back in the early/mid 90s I beat out several "applicants" for a parts driver for an auto store, simply because I could drive a stick shift vehicle and the only delivery vehicle they had left was a 5spd ford escort wagon. my how times change.


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## mwalsh9152 (Dec 30, 2008)

theplowmeister;2086328 said:


> Have you seen the new Chevy's with the knob on the dash for backing up your boat? "Wave of the future" nothing wrong with needing the knob to back up. hay I cant back up a trailer so the knob is just fine for me...
> 
> What ever happened to people knowing how to drive? and if you find it difficult to drive a manual your not a driver.
> 
> And I look down my nose on all the Auto trans drivers. Yes Im a snob... but I CAN drive.


They should have the backup knob option on trucks too. Ive never seen such an incompetent group of half wits. I couldnt tell you how many times I would be towing a box truck, and as I was backing it into a dock to offload, the driver would exclaim "wow, you can back my truck up with this better than I can in just mine" 

The tractor trailer drivers heads would explode when I put them into a dock with two pivot points behind me.


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## KildonanSnowRem (Oct 17, 2015)

:laughing:You guys sure do like to talk!


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

peteo1;2085988 said:


> If you can't drive a standard you have zero business being in a semi. It amazes me how few people can drive a stick


An automatic semi has certain advantages that make them a better fit in some applications. They make starting out with a very heavy load in mud or snow much easier for one...you will find nearly all concrete mixers are auto.
They also free your hand up for other tasks, so you aren't looking like a one armed paper hanger...you ever seen how busy a triaxle log truck driver is when he is upshifting, downshifting -including the splitter, lifting the tag, dropping the tag, locking the rears, unlocking the rears, jake on, jake off, watching for rocks, watching the load, and steering down a switchback? 
IMO, an auto would make sense for some guys..


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

KildonanSnowRem;2086588 said:


> :laughing:You guys sure do like to talk!


Can you imagine this group sitting around a campfire after a few drinks!


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

leigh;2086617 said:


> Can you imagine this group sitting around a campfire after a few drinks!


Bring back the chain drives.


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## sota (Jan 31, 2011)

get off my lawn.


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## mwalsh9152 (Dec 30, 2008)

KildonanSnowRem;2086588 said:


> :laughing:You guys sure do like to talk!


we need snow!


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

mwalsh9152;2086790 said:


> we need snow!


Since we gone off topic, is it too early to aerate the lawn?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Maybe a tad....


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Is it to early to start drinken? Thumbs Up


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Go ahead,it's beer-oclock.Be carefull heading to the packy,unless your driving a standard that is.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

And no double clutching


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## shotgunwillie (Nov 4, 2012)

mwalsh9152;2086560 said:


> They should have the backup knob option on trucks too. Ive never seen such an incompetent group of half wits. I couldnt tell you how many times I would be towing a box truck, and as I was backing it into a dock to offload, the driver would exclaim "wow, you can back my truck up with this better than I can in just mine"
> 
> The tractor trailer drivers heads would explode when I put them into a dock with two pivot points behind me.


Try backing up a semi-trailer with a dolly hooked to the pintle hook to the tail trailer. It is like backing up hay wagons. If you are really good, back up tandem trailers. Much of my time is spent realigning trailers that some steering wheel holder could not position correctly between two painted lines, or completely back to the dock. The trucking industry is reaping what it has been sowing for decades. Manual transmissions are not even an option with certain brands, engines and cab styles in pickup trucks. The OEM's like the automatics because it helps them meet the EPA and mpg regulations.


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## mwalsh9152 (Dec 30, 2008)

Thankfully, I have towed tandems, but I never had to back them up.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

32vld;2086732 said:


> Bring back the chain drives.


Why?......


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

theplowmeister;2087971 said:


> Why?......


People kept making suggestions to go back to the good old days.

Well you can't go back much more then an AC Mack with solid rubber tires. Unless we get some mules in front of a Ebling or Daniels pull plow.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

theplowmeister;2085856 said:


> MMMmmm Ive plowed for 28 or is it 29 years now I used an auto for 1/2 a season I HATED IT. I still use a manual. I plow driveways so lots of shifting I have no problem with it, nether does another of my drivers who drives a manual. I have a third driver that wanted an auto so he got the auto Jeep.


So you are agreeing exactly with my statement?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

If you have trucks with manual transmission, why are you hiring guys who can't drive a manual?

Who cares if they want to learn how to operate one.
Let them learn someplace else.


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## MC94XR7 (Nov 24, 2015)

Frig. I'm 33 1/2 and I know how to double clutch. I also used to drive truck so I kinda needed to learn or the truck just won't shift if u can't double clutch. If u want a shocker, auto shift rigs are taking over the industry because too many drivers necer learned how to shift and these junky auto shifts that always need costly repairs r a cheaper alternative to idiots who never learned double clutching properly


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

MC94XR7;2088081 said:


> Frig. I'm 33 1/2 and I know how to double clutch. I also used to drive truck so I kinda needed to learn or the truck just won't shift if u can't double clutch. If u want a shocker, auto shift rigs are taking over the industry because too many drivers necer learned how to shift and these junky auto shifts that always need costly repairs r a cheaper alternative to idiots who never learned double clutching properly


your b...i..tching about autos while you haven't gotten over double clutching....
news flash, almost all modern manuals now -a-days have synchronizers, you can stop double clutching...

Even if it didn't, i found it easy to just float shift it.
just a little fluctuation of the go pedal and it slides right in.

but what does that have to do with the price of rice?


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## d_charters (Nov 11, 2012)

MC94XR7;2088081 said:


> Frig. I'm 33 1/2 and I know how to double clutch. I also used to drive truck so I kinda needed to learn or the truck just won't shift if u can't double clutch. If u want a shocker, auto shift rigs are taking over the industry because too many drivers necer learned how to shift and these junky auto shifts that always need costly repairs r a cheaper alternative to idiots who never learned double clutching properly


Who uses a clutch for anything but starting and stopping in a tractor trailer?

I quit double clutching as soon as I passed my road test.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

I have driven big rigs for several different Co. at one Co if they caught you shifting without using the clutch you got a reprimand 3 reprimands and you got a new job. another Co if you used the clutch to shift you could get hired BUT you had 6 weeks to learn to shift without the clutch or look for a new job. and 2 other Co. didnt care how you shifted.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

d_charters;2091147 said:


> Who uses a clutch for anything but starting and stopping in a tractor trailer?
> 
> I quit double clutching as soon as I passed my road test.


X2, there is one company I know of here they have some monitor in, if you shift 3x without clutch your fired.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

theplowmeister;2091212 said:


> I have driven big rigs for several different Co. at one Co if they caught you shifting without using the clutch you got a reprimand 3 reprimands and you got a new job. another Co if you used the clutch to shift you could get hired BUT you had 6 weeks to learn to shift without the clutch or look for a new job. and 2 other Co. didnt care how you shifted.


Sounds like the last 2 were the only ones that cared about making money....


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

No the last two had no financial involvement in the Co.. It was a job. The first two were owners of the Co.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

theplowmeister;2091416 said:


> No the last two had no financial involvement in the Co.. It was a job. The first two were owners of the Co.


Exactly... micro managing your shifting techniques is not something that I would not consider profitable. What is next?

Those guys were trying to get a job done. How you choose to run your pattern is not a person that is not in the seats place... IMO

There are much bigger things to get excited about that if you clutch, double, or float in modern or even many early synced transmissions. If you are working for a guy that demands, he/ she is micro managing... not typically profitable...


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## immortal.ben (Feb 28, 2015)

Part of the problem is that some of you tried teaching people how to drive a stick in your own/company vehicle. I taught many people how to drive standard, but never in my own vehicle. Teach 'em in one from the dealership lot! 

And I would not take my time to teach an employee how to drive a stick. They need to learn to be an adult on their mommy and daddy's time.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

2 of my guys got there class A Cdl's this year. One guy new how to drive a standard very well and the other did not. He was a great operator and can drive any peice of machinery and caught on to an 18sp very quickly. That being said our new Kenworth with a 13sp Auto is an absolute pleasure to drive. I would have trouble ever buying a standard again. I'm not sure who in there right mind would want to plow snow with a standard anyways. JMO.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JD Dave;2091507 said:


> I'm not sure who in there right mind would want to plow snow with a standard anyways. JMO.


That explains why I plow with a stick.........


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## Diesel Dan (Sep 8, 2012)

I drive a 9, 10, or 13 speed during the day and you couldn't pay me to plow with a manual here, small lots and heavy snow, you would die.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JD Dave;2091507 said:


> 2 of my guys got there class A Cdl's this year. One guy new how to drive a standard very well and the other did not. He was a great operator and can drive any peice of machinery and caught on to an 18sp very quickly. That being said our new Kenworth with a 13sp Auto is an absolute pleasure to drive. I would have trouble ever buying a standard again. I'm not sure who in there right mind would want to plow snow with a standard anyways. JMO.


I got a good operator that could not find the gears and could not down shift. This was his choice for the CDL, He quickly changed his mind. Never made it to a road test. I was not aware the 13sp auto shift was available, Have drove a 10sp with hi/lo jake and it was a pleasure.

I really have no use for a manual accept in the dumps, This is not by choice the trucks in my budget fall below the price of a auto shift.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

FredG;2092406 said:


> I got a good operator that could not find the gears and could not down shift. This was his choice for the CDL, He quickly changed his mind. Never made it to a road test. I was not aware the 13sp auto shift was available, Have drove a 10sp with hi/lo jake and it was a pleasure.
> 
> I really have no use for a manual accept in the dumps, This is not by choice the trucks in my budget fall below the price of a auto shift.


I am confused... How can "a good operator" not be able to fulfill one of the major duties of being an operator... SHIFTING?

Like saying he is a good pilot, but he cant land a plane.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Philbilly2;2091422 said:


> Exactly... micro managing your shifting techniques is not something that I would not consider profitable. What is next?
> 
> Those guys were trying to get a job done. How you choose to run your pattern is not a person that is not in the seats place... IMO
> 
> There are much bigger things to get excited about that if you clutch, double, or float in modern or even many early synced transmissions. If you are working for a guy that demands, he/ she is micro managing... not typically profitable...


Well said,


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

theplowmeister;2092435 said:


> I am confused... How can "a good operator" not be able to fulfill one of the major duties of being an operator... SHIFTING?
> 
> Like saying he is a good pilot, but he cant land a plane.


Let me see if can help with the confusion. It's called Unions and Davis Baker Act. There are plenty of top notch operators that never had the opportunity to learn how to drive truck because the teamsters don't allow it. And the operators are not going to let a Teamster run a excavator. If it's a non union job and is prevailing wage and your paying $68.per hr for a operator I don't think I want a truck driver doing it. You have to have certified payroll, Technically on non union they don't care if you got a Labor as long as he's getting the $68 per hr. running excavator. Teamsters, Dump truck Lowboy etc. Operators, Excavator, bulldozer etc.

Jack of all trades master at non don't work good in NY.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

*clutch*



Philbilly2;2085495 said:


> I can't believe all these kids now a days have absolutely NO idea how to drive stick. If they were stuck in a desert 100 miles from any life form and walked up on a stick shift car or truck with the keys in it, they would die right there.
> 
> My wife is one of these people by the way. I tried to teach her to drive stick multiple different times and found that it would be best for my marriage if I just let her die in a desert with the rest of them, because if she dumped that damn clutch one more time, I was going to rip her head off. I'll take my chances with the desert.


I work for a sugar beet co-op during fall harvest. They have a fleet of semi's that they use to re-haul the stock piled beets from the rural piles to the factory. They have switched to all auto's.

When I work at the co-op I jump at every chance I get to drive the 1974 Ford 9000 dump with the 9 speed, (the synchros are bad) if I can drive that, I can drive anything and it's the only access I have to a large truck to practice with.

Several reasons, driver's hard on trucks, hard to get guys who can drive stick, etc.

My wife is also one who never learned to drive a manual. Now she wants a Jeep, and it seems like every one we find is a stick.

She says she wants to learn.

My 3/4 ton Chevy was a 4 speed (sm465, I believe) granny low gear.

I hated plowing with it (even as a back up rig). I converted it to a 4 speed auto.

Now I don't have anything to teach her with, till we find the right Jeep.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

What happened to the threads on the plane and 9/11.ussmileyflagussmileyflag I was about to give someone the riot act:realmad:


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

jonniesmooth;2092575 said:


> I work for a sugar beet co-op during fall harvest. They have a fleet of semi's that they use to re-haul the stock piled beets from the rural piles to the factory. They have switched to all auto's.
> 
> When I work at the co-op I jump at every chance I get to drive the 1974 Ford 9000 dump with the 9 speed, (the synchros are bad) if I can drive that, I can drive anything and it's the only access I have to a large truck to practice with.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't be talking about Trans-Systems would you?


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

*Trans Systems*



beanz27;2092700 said:


> Wouldn't be talking about Trans-Systems would you?


No, they haul for Crystal sugar. I think I heard in their radio ads for drivers that their trucks are all auto's too, but not for sure.

I work for Min-Dak Co-op in Wahpeton


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Just get them a 5 and a 4. Remember the old two sticks. If they can shift that, they can shift anything


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Randall Ave;2092763 said:


> Just get them a 5 and a 4. Remember the old two sticks. If they can shift that, they can shift anything


I drove one long time ago not very good at it . Are you talking about the ones you had to shift at the same time with no hands on the wheel.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

FredG;2092579 said:


> What happened to the threads on the plane and 9/11.ussmileyflagussmileyflag I was about to give someone the riot act:realmad:


Editing floor and I was being nice.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

jonniesmooth;2092755 said:


> No, they haul for Crystal sugar. I think I heard in their radio ads for drivers that their trucks are all auto's too, but not for sure.
> 
> I work for Min-Dak Co-op in Wahpeton


All auto freightliners, seen a few Volvos. All governed at 62, all really bad drivers, more steering wheel attendants.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

beanz27;2093071 said:


> All auto freightliners, seen a few Volvos. All governed at 62, all really bad drivers, more steering wheel attendants.


Why do you have to be a bad driver or wheel attendant while operating a auto shift. You still have to be safe and control your load. There are plenty of old timers can float any transmission available but are driving auto shift and enjoying it. IMO I'd rather drive the auto shift.

By no means would I consider a manual driver a superstar because shifting is easy as pie. Times change and auto shift are very desirable. A good employed driver would take the seat in the trucks the owner prefers to purchase with no issues or complaints.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Philbilly2;2085509 said:


> Stick in a plow truck gets old... but your left leg will be like Hans and Frans - Pumped UP by the end of a long event.
> 
> If you are pushing parking lots, I personally would not recommend it. If you are doing rally routes of streets or residential drives, they are not bad. But being stuck in a stick shift truck plowing back and forth for days in a blizzard will about make you crippled.


Last time I checked, you still need to move a lever in an automatic to switch between frontwards and backwards. Only difference is that in an automatic, the motion is probably a whole lot less natural.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

jasonv;2095843 said:


> Last time I checked, you still need to move a lever in an automatic to switch between frontwards and backwards. Only difference is that in an automatic, the motion is probably a whole lot less natural.




Manuals don't have clutches anymore??? 

At no point has that part of the difference between a manual and an automatic ever even so much as crossed my mind as being the tire some part of plowing in a manual. It is your left leg... the one that runs the clutch...

And why would an automatic motion be less natural than a manual for forward to reverse motion?

Your post is so off kilter I can't help but think your are messing with me or something?


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Philbilly2;2095846 said:


> Manuals don't have clutches anymore???
> 
> At no point has that part of the difference between a manual and an automatic ever even so much as crossed my mind as being the tire some part of plowing in a manual. It is your left leg... the one that runs the clutch...
> 
> ...


Good idea for you to keep yourself from sounding like you didn't bother reading, is to actually read what you are responding to. You know, the part about the clutch... oh wait, there WASN'T any part about the clutch. I responded to something talking about ARM fatigue. Well that explains it, doesn't it?

As for the more natural motion... do yourself a favor, go sit in 5 different automatic cars and try switching between forwards and backwards.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

jasonv;2095855 said:


> Good idea for you to keep yourself from sounding like you didn't bother reading, is to actually read what you are responding to. You know, the part about the clutch... oh wait, there WASN'T any part about the clutch. I responded to something talking about ARM fatigue. Well that explains it, doesn't it?
> 
> As for the more natural motion... do yourself a favor, go sit in 5 different automatic cars and try switching between forwards and backwards.


Ahhh.... yeah... no... you quoted me when you posted.

You took my post about your left leg running the clutch quoted it directly, then posted about an automatic shift lever.


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