# Starting residential plowing company, Pricing tips??



## Zorinoqc (Feb 7, 2012)

Hi ive been working in commercial snow plowing for a few years now and i am feed up of working for other people. My plan is to buy a tractor with a inverted snowblower . I think that i coud handle between 125 to 150 single and double driveway (all in the same area).But the only thing is i need help to get a pricing method .Companys in the area charge about 320 bucks a year for a double driveway.

Thanks for your help


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## strokerpuller (Dec 5, 2010)

About how many inches of snow do you get a year?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Well is that a good price? If it's is why would you go lower? Maybe even raise it up a little.


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## jschmitz93 (Nov 11, 2011)

For snow only seasonals I figure out what I would charge per time and then figure between 12-15 plows. Seems to work out ok. I usally go towards 15 since I am not doing their mowing. Or price would be a less if it was a 12 month account.


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## Zorinoqc (Feb 7, 2012)

in average we get between 60 to 80 inches of snow


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

This is the guy for you to check out.

http://www.plowsite.com/member.php?u=26566


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

First off, I would scale back your service number to an acceptable level. 130-150 is a lot. The way I look at it, if you can't complete your residential route 6 hours after a storm, then you need more equipment.

For the big snows, I would say 50 is going to be more feasible. Thinking you'll keep your route tight and close isn't going to work either. While getting established, you'll probably end up taking everything you can get.

As for price, I would think $400.00 + (US dollars) a season would be a bit better. But, it might be hard to compete already established companies.

I have no clue what your market is actually like though, only you can make that pricing decision.

...


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

White Gardens;1442413 said:


> First off, I would scale back your service number to an acceptable level. 130-150 is a lot. The way I look at it, if you can't complete your residential route 6 hours after a storm, then you need more equipment.
> 
> For the big snows, I would say 50 is going to be more feasible. Thinking you'll keep your route tight and close isn't going to work either. While getting established, you'll probably end up taking everything you can get.
> 
> ...


With the right combo, Paul said he can do, on average 50'ish driveways per hour so a lot will depend on how tight your route is or can be. Around here your lucky to get 275/seasonal for an average driveway. This was "supposed" to be the year we pay some stuff off early so as to enable us to look into buying a AG tractor with an inverted blower but..... Our marketing alone was going to be about 4-5k just for this piece of equipment, then another 12-15 for the blower then 30-50k for a decent used tractor. We were going to really push 3 year contracts so we're not ars out in a year and stuck with a huge payment.


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## paper65 (Sep 27, 2009)

If you plan to use blower in the area of Quebec city, you may be better serve with a regular blower. Every saleman that I have talk about inverted one seems to say that we have to much snow in the area. They can work for rural use cause you have long drives but I don't think they can be efficient as regular blower for close Quebec city neighborhoods. Everybody use versatible with pronovost pxpl blade or ag tractor equiped with front blade and reg. blower.

125 to 150 driveways can be done in 6 hours but it may takes couples of years and severals units addition and recuts of the initial territory deserve. We have 6 tractors for residential and operators handles from 90 to 175 accounts (mix of driveways and appartment parking) in this period of time. All have inverted expendable blade to drag snow in the street and we blow pile using standard blower. 

Pricing is right, If you plan to charge more than that you can't imagine having those numbers. I was 350/year 3 seasons ago using 100hp average tractors and agressives contractors bust me many accounts pricing 280 to 300 a year and using small compact tractor.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

White Gardens;1442413 said:


> First off, I would scale back your service number to an acceptable level. 130-150 is a lot. The way I look at it, *if you can't complete your residential route 6 hours after a storm, then you need more equipment*.
> 
> For the big snows, I would say 50 is going to be more feasible. Thinking you'll keep your route tight and close isn't going to work either. While getting established, you'll probably end up taking everything you can get.
> 
> ...


wow i guess i need more equipment then.......

this *HAS* to be a location thing.

i'm solo and currently do 14-16 residential driveways per snow fall. that includes snow blower time on the sidewalks and walkways. with drive time it takes me a good 8 hours to get them all done. thats non stop working. no breaks, maybe one stop at a gas station for fuel in the truck and to use the bathroom.

i know most guys in my neck of the woods would be working much more than 8 hours doing residentials depending on the snow fall. if we get a good 4 inches or more sometimes they are still doing them the next day.


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## Golfpro21 (Jan 9, 2010)

yardguy28;1444796 said:


> wow i guess i need more equipment then.......
> 
> this *HAS* to be a location thing.
> 
> ...


it is taking you 8 hours to do 16 driveways including drivetime........are you driving all over the region, we have a shovelling crew that also does 20 drives that are too far out of our main route to take tractors, but it only takes approx 15 minutes per drive including shovelling walk, unloading/loading


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

yardguy28;1444796 said:


> wow i guess i need more equipment then.......
> 
> this *HAS* to be a location thing.
> 
> ...


Either your making a ton of money or your losing a ton..


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Brian Young;1442429 said:


> With the right combo, Paul said he can do, on average 50'ish driveways per hour so a lot will depend on how tight your route is or can be. Around here your lucky to get 275/seasonal for an average driveway. This was "supposed" to be the year we pay some stuff off early so as to enable us to look into buying a AG tractor with an inverted blower but..... Our marketing alone was going to be about 4-5k just for this piece of equipment, then another 12-15 for the blower then 30-50k for a decent used tractor. We were going to really push 3 year contracts so we're not ars out in a year and stuck with a huge payment.


That's barely over one minute per driveway in ideal conditions. I guess that's possible but how bad do you whip a truck to do it my question. I like to think I'm pretty efficient but that seems ambitious. However I guess of you're using say a 9 1/2' fisher with wings that gives you somewhere around eleven feet or better. I suppose with that setup then yeah but I go back to how bad do you have to beat your truck to do it?


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## Golfpro21 (Jan 9, 2010)

peteo1;1459426 said:


> That's barely over one minute per driveway in ideal conditions. I guess that's possible but how bad do you whip a truck to do it my question. I like to think I'm pretty efficient but that seems ambitious. However I guess of you're using say a 9 1/2' fisher with wings that gives you somewhere around eleven feet or better. I suppose with that setup then yeah but I go back to how bad do you have to beat your truck to do it?


the 50 drives per hour is using a tractor with inverted blower, not a plow truck


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Ahh I see. I take it that's also in a subdivision and going from one house to the next.


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## Golfpro21 (Jan 9, 2010)

peteo1;1459629 said:


> Ahh I see. I take it that's also in a subdivision and going from one house to the next.


pretty much, in order to be able to do a hundred drives you need a very tight route with very little drive time...........you want the shortest route possible so that when you get those storms where you have to go back around as soon as you have finished your first visit you get your clients clearedquickly, so the guys doing it with plows or a walk behind crew are left in the dust compared to your turn over time.

Around here, 5-7 hours is good time for a route, much more and you run the risk of getting behind if you need to do 2-3 back to back visits


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

peteo1;1459629 said:


> Ahh I see. I take it that's also in a subdivision and going from one house to the next.


This video will explain best on what we are talking about


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

I followed you. Like the video though. Around here people would sh!t if you showed up with that thing. Not to mention they would ***** about the noise at night. You don't see a lot of the ag tractors around here for snow removal. Everything is done by either truck, backhoe, loader or skid steer. I used to work for a guy that did a whole subdivision and we put a truck, skid steer and a shovel crew up there. As I recall it took them about 6-8 hours to do but a lot of them were rookies.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

peteo1;1460460 said:


> I followed you. Like the video though. Around here people would sh!t if you showed up with that thing. Not to mention they would ***** about the noise at night. You don't see a lot of the ag tractors around here for snow removal. Everything is done by either truck, backhoe, loader or skid steer. I used to work for a guy that did a whole subdivision and we put a truck, skid steer and a shovel crew up there. As I recall it took them about 6-8 hours to do but a lot of them were rookies.


Interesting, the only thing we do not run is skid steer, but I would think they all have roughly the same noise output. Ag tractors are not as noisy as you think. The pickup truck is definitely the quietest of all.


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

Ag tractor no louder than a skid. Second season on our Ag tractor with inverted blower after 50 plus years of jeeps, pick ups, and skids, zero noise complaints.


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## Golfpro21 (Jan 9, 2010)

ag tractor with blother is quieter than a walk behind blower, the seniors being serviced might be apprehensive at first, since the machine is a bit daunting, but no different than switching from horse to car years ago, they managed to do it once they saw the benefits.


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## RdTeK (Feb 23, 2007)

Golfpro21;1460668 said:


> ag tractor with blother is quieter than a walk behind blower, the seniors being serviced might be apprehensive at first, since the machine is a bit daunting, but no different than switching from horse to car years ago, they managed to do it once they saw the benefits.


If you want to cut the blower noise down even more, try using chainsaw oil on the chain....it's the loudest part of a blower.... I started using that years ago, and it takes the chain noise right out.

Getting back to the original thread, I use a 6430 JD with a pronovost TRC-920 blower......all of my 130 driveways are within 2 kms of my house, and for a 10-15cm snowfall, it's taking 4-4.5 hrs to initially open up the driveways, just to give you an idea of a timeline.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

personally i price them out like i price mowing out. i just look at the driveways. i use a min of $25 per driveway and adjust up as the driveway gets larger. no seasonal contracts. just invoice at the end of the month for however many times i was there.


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

Pricing is relative to the market you are in. Be sure you know your costs and then build your pricing structure around it. Market saturation is an important factor as well. We service 90 + double wide drives in about 6 hours per event with our Ag tractor with the inversed blower. The route is not quite compact enough (yet).


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## MRHORSEPOWER1 (Dec 10, 2008)

Read this email from one of my customer about noise. I use John Deere 6320 with Normand Inverted Snowblower for driveways. Never had any noise complaints this season.


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## Golfpro21 (Jan 9, 2010)

yardguy28;1462125 said:


> personally i price them out like i price mowing out. i just look at the driveways. i use a min of $25 per driveway and adjust up as the driveway gets larger. no seasonal contracts. just invoice at the end of the month for however many times i was there.


we would have lost our shirts this year around here if we were per visit, plus with 130 + clients you always get people saying, well skip us today (so they can save money) so having everyone on contract is much less headaches, you just know you visit every client everytime.

Up here price is between $350 - $425 per drive for average double wide, double deep drive. Does not include any shovelling, our contract goes from Nov 15th, till end of March, 5 cm (2") trigger.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Golfpro21;1462746 said:


> we would have lost our shirts this year around here if we were per visit, plus with 130 + clients you always get people saying, well skip us today (so they can save money) so having everyone on contract is much less headaches, you just know you visit every client everytime.
> 
> Up here price is between $350 - $425 per drive for average double wide, double deep drive. Does not include any shovelling, our contract goes from Nov 15th, till end of March, 5 cm (2") trigger.


how does having a contract insure you service every client every time vs the way i do it?

every time it snows 2 inches or more every client gets serviced. i don't have any phone calls from clients saying skip us this time.

i've read on this site some of you who do use contracts get calls from clients not wanting to pay one month because you didn't get any snow to remove.

even with a contract there is a starting point of x amount of inches or more. every 2+ inches of snow i go through my whole route. then at the end of the month they receive an invoice for however many visits i made. no visits, no invoice.


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## Golfpro21 (Jan 9, 2010)

yardguy28;1462852 said:


> how does having a contract insure you service every client every time vs the way i do it?
> 
> every time it snows 2 inches or more every client gets serviced. i don't have any phone calls from clients saying skip us this time.
> 
> ...


if you have been able to compile a route of customers where everyone of them never complains that they did not need doing then that is awesome.

Up here we get a bunch of storms that are border line on our trigger, we get snow squalls of the lake where one area of the city gets 30 cm and another area gets 5 cm, or nothing, but you still have to check. We get all money upfront for the contract, so there is no client saying I am not paying for december because we got no snow, its already paid.

I am not knocking your set up with per time billing, its just not for us, and for our system ,we invoice everyone before the season, and then there is no invoicing for the rest of the season, other than the one time visits we get calls for from time to time.


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