# 8 ish hour route guys route income?



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

For the guys that have about a 8 hour route. im curious how i stack up. what do you make in your 8 hours of plowing?


----------



## Summerlawn (Dec 28, 2004)

Well, what do you gross for your 8 hours of work?


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

700 ish. my main route is 505. then i get a few hours contracted at 35 an hour. then some stragglers, 6" guys and what not.


----------



## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

Enough to make it worth getting out of bed and going outside where it's cold and snowy.


----------



## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

birddseedd;1585466 said:


> then i get a few hours contracted at 35 an hour.


I would rather go broke laying in bed then running my truck for that.


----------



## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

Every market is different, when bidding I shoot for 85 an hr (we are priced seasonal or per trip), we usually are above that, even with our after hours stuff. I should add though we are probably on the high end of my market, percentage wise I don't get a lot of what we bid.


----------



## vlc (Dec 8, 2012)

Did you say you GROSS $700?


----------



## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

$35 hour? I will give you all the plowing you can handle at $35 an hour.


----------



## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

Send 2 trucks my way please.


----------



## truckitup (Aug 21, 2011)

I am with RLM and Grandveiw, our market is cheap, cheap, cheap. next year will be worce with 1/2 the amount of snow for two years.


----------



## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

But to answer your question, twice that (comparing one plow truck if that's what you're using) and only 6 hours on this last light storm.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Today was 540 in 7.5 hrs. Got through it pretty quick today. Tho i have another lot down the road that is 50 for 20 min. So you could say 590 in 8 hrs. Not a whole lot but is good for a startup in michigan


----------



## scott3430 (Dec 28, 2010)

If that amount of $ works for you and the market your in .....more power to you. I work in a rural area with all small towns, so I probably won't be able to charge the $ of guys in big cities/suburbs.


----------



## bln (Feb 12, 2004)

$645 for 6 1/2 hours of work. And another 700 for salting it all. Takes 2 tons nd I pay 65 a ton. 5 bags of sidewalk salt.


----------



## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

wait a minute - there will be a dig difference in an 8 hour route if you are subbing and being paid hourly, versus a route with your own customers that you do per job and happens to take you 8 hours to complete. which are you asking about? 

you will make $xx per hour subbing (fixed price), and you will make about $xx per hour on your own accounts (variable based on snowfall amounts, weight of snow, how fast you are, etc, etc...)


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

You might be better off not knowing! Pricing is all over the place depending on the area.Look at some of the pricing that guys in New Jersey are getting for example.The overhead and cost of living in my area is high.Grass always looks greener...Bottom line is what is left over at end of year.I could throw out some numbers that you would drool over! I'm not getting rich,pay my bills invest some every year,happy to be healthy!


----------



## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

yeah, i have my own route and i'm reading these hourly numbers people are posting and thinking 3 things - the jobs are all 20 miles away from each other, they are super slow, and they are not charging nearly enough. 

now if you are subbing at a fixed hourly rate its a different story. but if you are running your own show, then you gotta rethink things....


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

linckeil;1585727 said:


> wait a minute - there will be a dig difference in an 8 hour route if you are subbing and being paid hourly, versus a route with your own customers that you do per job and happens to take you 8 hours to complete. which are you asking about?
> 
> you will make $xx per hour subbing (fixed price), and you will make about $xx per hour on your own accounts (variable based on snowfall amounts, weight of snow, how fast you are, etc, etc...)


I only have about a 5 hour route. Quite a bit of it i can do later in the day since they dont open till noon most days. So for the customers i dont have. i fill in my time working for him. i also have a few people working for me that do work for him.


----------



## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

My routes are 5-6 hours on an average (2-3") snowfall.....6200 per plowable snow - salt included, running 7 trucks, and 2 2 man shoveling crews


----------



## Raymond S. (Jan 8, 2008)

Birdseed, this is why you are missing your family while you're plowing. My market is not that far from yours and let me tell you, you are selling yourself WAY short. Most guys on here who have decent equipment are pulling down about 3x that in 8hrs. I won't get into particulars, but if you're even THINKING of doing sub work at $35/hr you need to just look at your fuel bill. It's absurd that anyone would pay you that kind of money. Regardless of your truck (it can be a tonka truck w/ a cardboard plow for all I care) you should be at a minimum of $60/hr around here. Better equipment, more efficient, then the price goes up. 

Not trying to come across cruel but I know first hand the sacrifices that are made in plowing (as does everyone else) and you need to make some aggressive changes in either your pricing or who you are doing work for before you end up on the short end of the stick. It's not worth getting out of bed for what you are doing it for now.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Raymond S.;1585944 said:


> Birdseed, this is why you are missing your family while you're plowing. My market is not that far from yours and let me tell you, you are selling yourself WAY short. Most guys on here who have decent equipment are pulling down about 3x that in 8hrs. I won't get into particulars, but if you're even THINKING of doing sub work at $35/hr you need to just look at your fuel bill. It's absurd that anyone would pay you that kind of money. Regardless of your truck (it can be a tonka truck w/ a cardboard plow for all I care) you should be at a minimum of $60/hr around here. Better equipment, more efficient, then the price goes up.
> 
> Not trying to come across cruel but I know first hand the sacrifices that are made in plowing (as does everyone else) and you need to make some aggressive changes in either your pricing or who you are doing work for before you end up on the short end of the stick. It's not worth getting out of bed for what you are doing it for now.


thats why i wont work past 4 o clock for him. i only get abotu 80 bucks after gas for a couple hours work. but i figure its better than nothing. next year hopefully ill be full enough with my own work i wont have time to sub.


----------



## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

birddseedd;1585953 said:


> thats why i wont work past 4 o clock for him. i only get abotu 80 bucks after gas for a couple hours work. but i figure its better than nothing. next year hopefully ill be full enough with my own work i wont have time to sub.


but the point is its not better than nothing. go home and sit on you a$$ for that money. its insulting. by taking that money you are driving the pay down for other subs. now if you want a fair wage, he will tell you to go screw and try to find another one willing to work their own truck for $35 per hour - hopefully no one else would agree to that. on top of it, he probably tells his buddies he's got someone willing to work their own equipment for that rate and they all have a good laugh at your expense.

you made another thread saying you've been too busy plowing to see your family. well go see them instead of beating yourself and your equipment up for $35 an hour. its just insane - i dont care what market you are in.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

linckeil;1585972 said:


> but the point is its not better than nothing. go home and sit on you a$$ for that money. its insulting. by taking that money you are driving the pay down for other subs. now if you want a fair wage, he will tell you to go screw and try to find another one willing to work their own truck for $35 per hour - hopefully no one else would agree to that. on top of it, he probably tells his buddies he's got someone willing to work their own equipment for that rate and they all have a good laugh at your expense.
> 
> you made another thread saying you've been too busy plowing to see your family. well go see them instead of beating yourself and your equipment up for $35 an hour. its just insane - i dont care what market you are in.


That is just what he pays all his subs. next year ill most likely be to busy with a full schedule of clients to work for him. but in either case. 35 an hour is better than 0 an hour when you have a family to feed. or if you dont. hard to even feed yourself on 0 an hour.


----------



## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

birddseedd;1585975 said:


> That is just what he pays all his subs. next year ill most likely be to busy with a full schedule of clients to work for him. but in either case. 35 an hour is better than 0 an hour when you have a family to feed. or if you dont. hard to even feed yourself on 0 an hour.


Think what they are saying is $35 hour most likely isn't worth it if figure in fuel, insurance and maintenance. Might it of been one of his properties you just broke your plow on? What happens if something does happen on one of his sites and you are no longer able to finish your accounts? Is $35 still worth it then. There is also wear and tear on your truck, it uses more than fuel when plowing. Not sure what type of properties he has you doing but commercial lots with long pushes can be much harder on tranny compared to your average resi driveway. Yeah you may be putting a few extra bucks in your pocket now but it could come back to bite you in the long run. I wouldn't even put my sleepers on for $35 an hour, it takes at least $100 to get me to put the key in the ignition. Just try and look at the big picture and not the few extra bucks you got in your hand now.


----------



## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

i get it - food has to be put on the table. now instead of getting say $50 for a driveway, i could be of the mindset that "anything is better than nothing" and accept whatever the homeowner is willing to pay - say it's 10 bucks. should i take the job? it's better than nothing, right? 

go to the grocery store, tell the butcher you are paying 50 cents per pound even though he and everyone else is charging $5 per pound... see what he says......

you are not helpless here and at the mercy to accept whatever insulting price this contractor pays. you have options. if everyone aggreed to work for $35 per hour, what do you think would happen to the industry? it would disappear. most guys would get out immediately. others would hang on only to realize they are loosing more than they make in abuse, repairs, fuel, and their time.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

kimber750;1585981 said:


> Think what they are saying is $35 hour most likely isn't worth it if figure in fuel, insurance and maintenance. Might it of been one of his properties you just broke your plow on? What happens if something does happen on one of his sites and you are no longer able to finish your accounts? Is $35 still worth it then. There is also wear and tear on your truck, it uses more than fuel when plowing. Not sure what type of properties he has you doing but commercial lots with long pushes can be much harder on tranny compared to your average resi driveway. Yeah you may be putting a few extra bucks in your pocket now but it could come back to bite you in the long run. I wouldn't even put my sleepers on for $35 an hour, it takes at least $100 to get me to put the key in the ignition. Just try and look at the big picture and not the few extra bucks you got in your hand now.


cannot be any harder than teh bigger lots i do for my own clients.

i understand what you mean. its not much pay compared to your own clients. but its a few hours of extra work that does profit 26 an hour.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

linckeil;1585984 said:


> i get it - food has to be put on the table. now instead of getting say $50 for a driveway, i could be of the mindset that "anything is better than nothing" and accept whatever the homeowner is willing to pay - say it's 10 bucks. should i take the job? it's better than nothing, right?
> 
> go to the grocery store, tell the butcher you are paying 50 cents per pound even though he and everyone else is charging $5 per pound... see what he says......
> 
> you are not helpless here and at the mercy to accept whatever insulting price this contractor pays. you have options. if everyone aggreed to work for $35 per hour, what do you think would happen to the industry? it would disappear. most guys would get out immediately. others would hang on only to realize they are loosing more than they make in abuse, repairs, fuel, and their time.


As i get those other clients. i work for him less and less. in fact at the beginning of the season i told him i could only do a couple hours. the only reason i can really do as much as i am doing is because i have a few clients that dont need to be done till later in the day.


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Since my post will get deleted again,here goes. Go on welfare and be done with with it.Then find some guy who needs a gopher and pays you cash which involves nothing but labor from you,. Just because your plowing a full route means nothing when your cheap and use junk,Just give up and come back in a few years.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

grandview;1586005 said:


> Since my post will get deleted again,here goes. Go on welfare and be done with with it.Then find some guy who needs a gopher and pays you cash which involves nothing but labor from you,. Just because your plowing a full route means nothing when your cheap and use junk,Just give up and come back in a few years.


let me see if i understand correctly.

instead of working for my company, which inivitibily produces a good amount of profit, enough that i can feed my family, pay for my house, my necessities and overall be a productive member of societity..... you would prefer that i live off your tax money?


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Yes,for the simple reason your driving down prices for everyone else trying to make a living. So in the long run you'd be doing everyone else a favor by getting out of the business.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

grandview;1586016 said:


> Yes,for the simple reason your driving down prices for everyone else trying to make a living. So in the long run you'd be doing everyone else a favor by getting out of the business.


and apparently supply and demand has nothing to do with it.

while i charge better prices for my own customers, the fact is if i dont work for him, there are 10 people behind me that will. me quitting would have no effect. other than making it a bit harder to pay my own bills.


----------



## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

birddseedd;1585466 said:


> 700 ish. my main route is 505. then i get a few hours contracted at 35 an hour. then some stragglers, 6" guys and what not.


So your main route takes around 8hrs and you take in 505 averaging you to 63per hr give or take. That's not terrible. It could be worse. Maybe try to bump up your prices so your averaging $75 per hr or so. But your making money when you could be making zero if it wasn't snowing. If you run out of work and need something to do that's cool that your helping your bud plow $35 might not be that great but it's better than nothing when your not making anything.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

94gt331;1586019 said:


> So your main route takes around 8hrs and you take in 505 averaging you to 63per hr give or take. That's not terrible. It could be worse. Maybe try to bump up your prices so your averaging $75 per hr or so. But your making money when you could be making zero if it wasn't snowing. If you run out of work and need something to do that's cool that your helping your bud plow $35 might not be that great but it's better than nothing when your not making anything.


my route is actually around 5 hours. but, keep in mind i have extensions that make me 40 percent faster than a straight blade alone. the 35 an hour isnt much i know. but it pays for my gas for my route


----------



## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

Our last storm 2 days ago I had only 2 trucks and a skid out totaling 20 man hrs exactly everything went smooth. I brought in $2,000 in plow income so we averaged $100hr exactly minus maybe $100 in fuel. I am pleased with that result. It allways depends each storm on how many trucks and guys I send out however.


----------



## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

birddseedd;1586020 said:


> my route is actually around 5 hours. but, keep in mind i have extensions that make me 40 percent faster than a straight blade alone. the 35 an hour isnt much i know. but it pays for my gas for my route


Okay then $505 at only 5hrs. Your making $101hr minus some fuel. That's good in my area.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

grandview;1586016 said:


> Yes,for the simple reason your driving down prices for everyone else trying to make a living. So in the long run you'd be doing everyone else a favor by getting out of the business.





94gt331;1586021 said:


> Our last storm 2 days ago I had only 2 trucks and a skid out totaling 20 man hrs exactly everything went smooth. I brought in $2,000 in plow income so we averaged *$100hr* exactly minus maybe $100 in fuel. I am pleased with that result. It allways depends each storm on how many trucks and guys I send out however.





94gt331;1586024 said:


> Okay then $505 at only 5hrs. Your making $101hr minus some fuel. That's good in my area.


just saying, grandview


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

thanks. iv got a few ltos that im on the low sied for picing. dont feel so bad about it seeing im bringing in about what everyone else is.


so. here is a new question


I have extensions that make me 40 percent faster. technically. if charging the same i should be making 40 percent more profit. seems i am using the extensions as an advantage to make myself more competitive. 

your toughs?


----------



## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

look bird - i beleive you are a good guy and i believe you put a lot of effort into what you do - and i give you a lot of credit for it. but a lot of guys on here have you given you a lot of advice over time - some take different approaches than others.....

but the theme is that you really need to reevaluate what you are doing - not only to yourself, but to the industry. you are accepting pay that is way too low and you are using equipment that is unreliable and unsafe. as a result, you are driving down prices, and increasing insurance costs. it is only a matter of time before your equipment fails and hurts (maybe even kills) yourself, or someone else. and when that happens, even you will then see that it was certainly not worth what you are being paid.

a lot of guys that plow aren't cut out to work on their equipment. the successful ones realize this and pay up for new or nearly new stuff that hopefully won't have to be wrenched on, and if it does, they go to an authorized dealer to do the work. lots of these guys do very well, as they charge the prices they know they need to get.

other guys do work on the older stuff and keep it up just as well (if not better) then the newer equipment. the smart ones charge the same money as the guy with the new truck i mentioned above, as their time and effort in keeping older equipment going needs to be compensated for. 

then there are guys like you who cobble together mixed and matched parts (which is not a problem IF done right) with a little 110 volt harbor frieght welder that can barely bond sheetmetal together - let alone a plow frame. nothing wrong with taking initiative, but don't rely on something like that to feed your family and please don't take that thing down the road and put lives at risk. 

if you've managed to avoid catastrophy so far, count your blessings, take advice learned here, and make some serious changes on how you run your business. if you continue as is, you are flirting with disaster....


----------



## CashinH&P (Jan 14, 2012)

Enough to pay all the bills and put some money away for the rainy days. I wont say a particular amount but its about 2x what birdboy makes.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

linckeil;1586040 said:


> look bird - i beleive you are a good guy and i believe you put a lot of effort into what you do - and i give you a lot of credit for it. but a lot of guys on here have you given you a lot of advice over time - some take different approaches than others.....
> 
> but the theme is that you really need to reevaluate what you are doing - not only to yourself, but to the industry. you are accepting pay that is way too low and you are using equipment that is unreliable and unsafe. as a result, you are driving down prices, and increasing insurance costs. it is only a matter of time before your equipment fails and hurts (maybe even kills) yourself, or someone else. and when that happens, even you will then see that it was certainly not worth what you are being paid.
> 
> ...


actualy, i spent quite a bit of money on a lincon welder that can quit literally torch my truck in half if i turned it up all the way. the reason i spent this money. because my plow is in fact safe. whatever gave you the notion that my plow will kill someone i dont know. but my plow is not un safe to any extent. and with the recent work i did on it on sunday i can honestly say it it is now quite reliable baring my one old angel cylinder which i will probably replace next fall working or not.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

CashinH&P;1586041 said:


> Enough to pay all the bills and put some money away for the rainy days. I wont say a particular amount but its about 2x what birdboy makes.


so you are aroudn 1400 plus or minus. do you do mostly lots or driveways?


----------



## CashinH&P (Jan 14, 2012)

birddseedd;1586052 said:


> so you are aroudn 1400 plus or minus. do you do mostly lots or driveways?


It ranges form 1400 to 2400 depending on the inch amount. I do a mix of driveways, and small lots, in a very tight route. The route placement is how I maximize my profit.


----------



## Raymond S. (Jan 8, 2008)

You came on here looking for an idea of what others make and instead got slammed for being cheap. Actually I think you're taking it pretty well. At the end of the day you're not making out all that bad if your route is 5 hours. You're not going to the Bahamas on that money but if you're feeding your family and putting a roof over their head you're doing better than alot of people, and kudos for that. Do yourself a favor though. STOP working for that guy, TODAY! You're not doing yourself or anyone else a favor, except him. There may be 10 other guys right behind you, good for them. I've probably got 50 guys behind me waiting to cut my throat and I'd be damned if I'm going to stand in their way. There will always be someone cheaper. Don't build yourself on being the cheapest ***** on the block. Spend ALL your time making your accounts the best they can be. Next year, charge a little more and you don't have to sub a few hours for gas money. Do a good job and you can get better accounts, charge more, hire subs to work for YOU, and now you're building a business. I understand you think you have to get every nickel you can right now but sometimes it's not worth the hassle. You have to ask yourself "At what expense?" I used to NEVER turn down work. Now I always ask myself "How will this job effect my other customers? Will I have to spend more time away from my family or can I incorporate this pretty easily into my route, or a sub? Will I make as much on this job as my others. If not, I don't want it. 
I used to work in a tool shop as a Journeyman Moldmaker, 15 years. We had a kid who served his apprenticeship there and who was really sharp, worked hard, great attitude, etc. He always got crap jobs to work on. I asked the foreman one day why he never gives him challenging work. He said "Once an apprentice always an apprentice." I never forgot that. If you continue to work for pennies for this guy you'll always be "that guy." "Hey Bob, remember that guy you had subbing for you for $35? He's bidding on my property this season. That guy's a hack I can't wait to tell my customers he works for 1/2 of what I do. He must be a joke." etc. You get the idea. 
Bottom line. Do an outstanding job. Demand a premium. There are customers out there who will pay for it. But remember. If you're that guy who gets a premium, you sure as hell better be doing outstanding work cause there's 20 guys just waiting for you to miss a beat.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Raymond S.;1586071 said:


> You came on here looking for an idea of what others make and instead got slammed for being cheap. ...


actualy at the risk of getting flamed, i do have a sub as you mentioned. mainly he works for the same guy i work for, but under me, making 10 bucks less. when he does salting for the guy i give him the full amount. and when he does work for me i do try to give him a bit more. if i can.

i also have a side walk crew subbing for me for him. one guy i pay 13 an hour another 15 an hour, although i wont be paying him since i sub for him and he owes me more than i owe him.

i gotta say it is nice being able to call someone when i have a break down or have to change my schedule and need the help.

next year i plan on bidding on some more work and hope to pay him better and not work for the 35 an hour guy at all.

but im glad that even with the cheap work im not too far below other people. but honestly i think it probably has more to do with my wings than what i charge.

do you think it is wrong i use more efficient equipment and charge less rather than charge the same and make more money?


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Yes. Be efficient and charge what you should, that way you are making more and can then reinvest that back info your business for, say, a new plow. The guy I sub for pays me well which is why I stay with him. There's a huge snow company here with tons of loaders, trucks, subs etc. From what I understand he pays his subs around 35-50/ hr depending on what equipment you have. Personally I make more than that and I won't work that cheap and neither should you. As far as your pricing, why the hell should you cut your prices because your efficient? That's ridiculous


----------



## Raymond S. (Jan 8, 2008)

Yes, that is wrong. I've never believed in investing in more efficient equipment (in your case wings) just to pass on a savings to the customer. Invest in equipment to become efficient so you can give a competitive price, but remember the price is ALWAYS what the customer is willing to pay. You're in business to make money. You are NOT in business to provide a service for your customers. If your market is $100/hr for plowing but you can make enough money at $75/hr...charge $100/hr. (example.) 

I could go on and on.


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

I think some parts of this hourly is missing. You made so much in that time,but if your screwing around x amount hours after your done plowing you need to take ALL your hours into account then figure out your hourly rate. Then take all your expenses out of that.Now what are you making an hour?


----------



## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

birddseedd;1585975 said:


> 35 an hour is better than 0 an hour when you have a family to feed. or if you dont. hard to even feed yourself on 0 an hour.


Instead of making the guy you are subbing to richer, just pick up an extra driveway or two. I won't do driveways for less than $30 a shot and those ususally take me all of 3 minutes to do. You'd be far better off picking up as many of those as you can.

Heck if you are paying someone $15 and hour to shovel, he's propbably netting more per hour than you are subbing to the other guy with your truck for $35 hr.


----------



## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Sorry but my machine operators and some of my drivers make $35 an hour in my trucks and machines 
At $35 an hour you are loosing money with gas insurance wear and tear on your truck 
Cheapest I have seen subs is for $65 an hour most in pick up get $75 dumps get $90 they have a bigger plow and dump with salter go for )115 to $125 an hour 
So yes they are correct get out of business for all of us


----------



## Workin 25/8 (Jan 19, 2011)

birddseedd;1586030 said:


> thanks. iv got a few ltos that im on the low sied for picing. dont feel so bad about it seeing im bringing in about what everyone else is.
> 
> so. here is a new question
> 
> ...


I think you are missing something here. Are you charging per push or per hr.? Your extensions may make you 40% faster in your lots but they have absolutely nothing to do with improving your travel time/ route density and your overhead. I have a buddy who is all hourly on his trucks and skids. He refuses to use anything but straight blades and snow buckets because spending money to become more efficient would actually cost him money when he bills out sites. (faster equipment=less hours to bills) Even though another contractor could do the work for far less money they provide top notch and priority service.

Why not charge the same amount of money as your competition instead of doing the work "twice as fast for half as much money"? Subbing for 35/hr is pretty ridiculous but gaining experience is something positive to take from it when you tell him you're done ASAP. Like others have said I would rather sit at home and go broke slower than working for your buddy and losing money that way.

My buddy hauls heavy equipment and is one of the highest price guys around. He says if they don't wanna pay his rates then he will just stay home or haul for his regulars who understand quality and reliable service. He knows his numbers and takes very profitable jobs instead of anything he can get. He values his time. When you work for so cheap you are devaluing " your skill-set" and lowering the price for contractors and subs alike. Evaluate every decision in business and personal life to make sure it is worth doing and what effect it will have.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

What i think you guys dont understand is it takes time to build up a reputation where people are willing to pay you. Why hire some no name at x per hour when you can have the company with the biggest reputation for quality for that same price. 

It sounds like overall i am getting the same price for most of my plowing as most. But it takes time to build up a clientell and reputation where people know me and i have referals to prove my services are worth what divisser and deyoung charge.

As the compay grows so does the price and quality of clients. But right now i simply cannot afford to lose half my clients because they cannot afford a higher price. Im still making good profit.


----------



## CashinH&P (Jan 14, 2012)

birddseedd;1586288 said:


> What i think you guys dont understand is it takes time to build up a reputation where people are willing to pay you. Why hire some no name at x per hour when you can have the company with the biggest reputation for quality for that same price.
> 
> It sounds like overall i am getting the same price for most of my plowing as most. But it takes time to build up a clientell and reputation where people know me and i have referals to prove my services are worth what divisser and deyoung charge.
> 
> As the compay grows so does the price and quality of clients. But right now i simply cannot afford to lose half my clients because they cannot afford a higher price. Im still making good profit.


The best way to get a good rep. is too provide top notch service and look good doing it. Im not saying you need a brand new truck/plow but you need to keep what you have in good condition and clean (with in reason). Now bird I dont mean to be a dick but if my memory serves, your plow and truck look a little sketchy. And with all of your break downs and time being wasted Im not convinced you can provide top notch service.


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

As the compay grows so does the price and quality of clients. But right now i simply cannot afford to lose half my clients because they cannot afford a higher price. Im still making good profit.[/QUOTE]

What is your definition of profit? You might want to educate yourself on the basics of business 101.You can research online.Maybe take advantage of local night school offerings.You have very little if any "profit".You just don't know it.Educate yourself,it might not be to late!


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

leigh;1586317 said:


> As the compay grows so does the price and quality of clients. But right now i simply cannot afford to lose half my clients because they cannot afford a higher price. Im still making good profit.


What is your definition of profit? You might want to educate yourself on the basics of business 101.You can research online.Maybe take advantage of local night school offerings.You have very little if any "profit".You just don't know it.Educate yourself,it might not be to late![/QUOTE]

I havnt lost my house yet. I obviously must be making some profit.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

CashinH&P;1586307 said:


> The best way to get a good rep. is too provide top notch service and look good doing it. Im not saying you need a brand new truck/plow but you need to keep what you have in good condition and clean (with in reason). Now bird I dont mean to be a dick but if my memory serves, your plow and truck look a little sketchy. And with all of your break downs and time being wasted Im not convinced you can provide top notch service.


Iv got an 04 dodge ram. Asside from some rust above the wheels it looks good. But i do agree the break downs are a detrament to my service. But as i make more money im able to get better equipment. My service improves every year and the company has grown at least 50% every year


----------



## CashinH&P (Jan 14, 2012)

birddseedd;1586354 said:


> Iv got an 04 dodge ram. Asside from some rust above the wheels it looks good. But i do agree the break downs are a detrament to my service. But as i make more money im able to get better equipment. My service improves every year and the company has grown at least 50% every year


So are there any expences that you can cut out in order to put enough money away to buy a used plow from a dealer or better yet a new plow. It woundnt take much, im personaly not eating out until I can buy a second plow. Already half way there after 2 or 3 months.

You can do it bird just yous you noggin (and use it logicaly no more ********)


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Unfortunatly we have had to cut everything out just to get by already. Frankly iv put so much work into it the plow is reliable now. Most of it is actually brand new. Controls, wiring pump and motor. My next neccessity is a decent trailer.


----------



## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

birddseedd;1586349 said:


> What is your definition of profit? You might want to educate yourself on the basics of business 101.You can research online.Maybe take advantage of local night school offerings.You have very little if any "profit".You just don't know it.Educate yourself,it might notp be to late!


I havnt lost my house yet. I obviously must be making some profit.[/QUOTE]

No you are just moving money around. There is a big difference.


----------



## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

Raymond S.;1585944 said:


> Birdseed, this is why you are missing your family while you're plowing. My market is not that far from yours and let me tell you, you are selling yourself WAY short. Most guys on here who have decent equipment are pulling down about 3x that in 8hrs. I won't get into particulars, but if you're even THINKING of doing sub work at $35/hr you need to just look at your fuel bill. It's absurd that anyone would pay you that kind of money. Regardless of your truck (it can be a tonka truck w/ a cardboard plow for all I care) you should be at a minimum of $60/hr around here. Better equipment, more efficient, then the price goes up.
> 
> Not trying to come across cruel but I know first hand the sacrifices that are made in plowing (as does everyone else) and you need to make some aggressive changes in either your pricing or who you are doing work for before you end up on the short end of the stick. It's not worth getting out of bed for what you are doing it for now.


Raymond, what do subs get in your area? i'm curious because i have a sub that i use, and my partner thinks i pay him too much, but it's more than $35.00. Our area is Cheap for hourly plowing with a pick-up. So i have finally gone to mostly per push pricing, with very little hourly.

Thanks, Ben

EDIT......just re-read your post....$60.00/hr......that's more like it.


----------



## Raymond S. (Jan 8, 2008)

Ben I have one guy that I pay $65/hr with an 8.5' Western V. He's not real quick but does a good job. I have another guy that I pay $80 with an 8' SniwDogg with the fixed wing plow. He's way more efficient and 100% on his own. He has a certain few lots that he does and I never have to tell him when to go out or answer questions. The $65 guy is more like one of my guys. Needs a little more direction. 
I do know some guys in the area nearing the $100/hr mark but with large plows and including salting services.


----------



## vlc (Dec 8, 2012)

Just under 3 g's for a 2-4" storm. Takes about 8 hours with 2 trucks. Now we just need some snow so I can make some money! This is getting rediculus.


----------



## vlc (Dec 8, 2012)

And $35/hour to drive your own truck? I would never do that. I pay my help about 50/hr to drive MY truck. I know it's high, but it's worth it for good, reliable help. I take pride in my work and he does too.


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

vlc;1586741 said:


> And $35/hour to drive your own truck? I would never do that. I pay my help about 50/hr to drive MY truck. I know it's high, but it's worth it for good, reliable help. I take pride in my work and he does too.


Where are you located? I might be there next season!


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

I find it hard to believe any subs get paid 100 per hour. most plowers it seems only make about 100 per hour.


----------



## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

birddseedd;1586288 said:


> What i think you guys dont understand is it takes time to build up a reputation where people are willing to pay you. Why hire some no name at x per hour when you can have the company with the biggest reputation for quality for that same price.


JMHDAO but................You will never get a reputation out to potential clients by subbing to someone else, all you are doing there is making both him and his bank account look better.



birddseedd;1586349 said:


> I havnt lost my house yet. I obviously must be making some profit.


Bankruptcy Court is full of people with that same philosophy!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

birddseedd;1586807 said:


> I find it hard to believe any subs get paid 100 per hour. most plowers it seems only make about 100 per hour.


Guys who plow streets for the local municipalities here with a 3/4 ton truck with 8ft plow make about $70 an hour on average.


----------



## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

JimMarshall;1585928 said:


> My routes are 5-6 hours on an average (2-3") snowfall.....6200 per plowable snow - salt included, running 7 trucks, and 2 2 man shoveling crews


My route 8 hrs if snow stops at midnight like last Saturday snow was I made 4600 and I only ran 3 trucks and one sidewalk guy 
But if the same snow start at 4 am like it did on 1-30-13 I had multi visits My route can go out 13 hrs I sent invoices for that snow was 7600 and still ran 3 trucks and one sidewalk guy

Since last year I lost 2 drives and so far I havent be able replace them so my tractor and a truck sits Snow gets deep I'll run the tractor and 2 trucks 1-4'' snow I'll just run 3 trucks


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Big Dog D;1586856 said:


> Guys who plow streets for the local municipalities here with a 3/4 ton truck with 8ft plow make about $70 an hour on average.


I dont think we actually do that here. the only trucks iv seen are county trucks. there are some private sub divisions that have pickup trucks. but not government roads.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Big Dog D;1586855 said:


> JMHDAO but................You will never get a reputation out to potential clients by subbing to someone else, all you are doing there is making both him and his bank account look better.
> 
> Bankruptcy Court is full of people with that same philosophy!!!!!!!!!


Next year ill have a full route myself.


----------



## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

vlc;1586741 said:


> And $35/hour to drive your own truck? I would never do that. I pay my help about 50/hr to drive MY truck. I know it's high, but it's worth it for good, reliable help. I take pride in my work and he does too.


Wow 50 per hr in your truck 
What is that after taxes


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Antlerart06;1586879 said:


> Wow 50 per hr in your truck
> What is that after taxes


Depends on your tax bracket.-10,15,25,28,33,35%.


----------



## Raymond S. (Jan 8, 2008)

birddseedd;1586807 said:


> I find it hard to believe any subs get paid 100 per hour. most plowers it seems only make about 100 per hour.


How do you know this? Did the guy you're subbing for tell you that? What if I told you when it snows my trucks generate over $200/hr from the time we drop the blade til we eat breakfast? That includes the time they're sitting idling while we shovel the walks. Good equipment, good accounts, big plows, and guys that know what they're doing. You need to quit thinking that all you're trying to do is feed your family. If you're not in this to make money get the hell out! Snow plowing sucks, period! If you're not making more money than all your buddies, you should go work with them at whatever they're doing.

Get busy chargin' or get busy dying...


----------



## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

if seasoned plow guys with their own routes (not subs) are only averaging $100 per hour gross, then something is very wrong - especially if you have been doing this a while. 

for a new comer building his client base it may not be too bad as you take the work you can get and sometimes that means driving several miles between accounts. plus you are likely less experienced and will become a faster and more effiecent plower as time goes on. 

but say your market is really low and the average driveway is very small and only gets $25 and it takes you 10 minutes to do it because you are new to plowing and still very slow, or maybe you have inefficient equipment. and average travel time between drives is another 10 minutes. these are all worst case scenarios as far as i am concerned. in this "perfect storm" of low price, inefficent plowing, and distance between accounts, you would gross about $75 an hour from the time you entered the first driveway, until the time you left the third.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Raymond S.;1586899 said:


> How do you know this? Did the guy you're subbing for tell you that? What if I told you when it snows my trucks generate over $200/hr from the time we drop the blade til we eat breakfast? That includes the time they're sitting idling while we shovel the walks. Good equipment, good accounts, big plows, and guys that know what they're doing. You need to quit thinking that all you're trying to do is feed your family. If you're not in this to make money get the hell out! Snow plowing sucks, period! If you're not making more money than all your buddies, you should go work with them at whatever they're doing.
> 
> Get busy chargin' or get busy dying...


just what a few guys on PS said. maybe they were the smaller guys. i do about 100 an hour start to finish.


----------



## vlc (Dec 8, 2012)

Antlerart06;1586879 said:


> Wow 50 per hr in your truck
> What is that after taxes


They don't call it Taxachusetts for nothing!


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

linckeil;1586902 said:


> if seasoned plow guys with their own routes (not subs) are only averaging $100 per hour gross, then something is very wrong - especially if you have been doing this a while.
> 
> for a new comer building his client base it may not be too bad as you take the work you can get and sometimes that means driving several miles between accounts. plus you are likely less experienced and will become a faster and more effiecent plower as time goes on.
> 
> but say your market is really low and the average driveway is very small and only gets $25 and it takes you 10 minutes to do it because you are new to plowing and still very slow, or maybe you have inefficient equipment. and average travel time between drives is another 10 minutes. these are all worst case scenarios as far as i am concerned. in this "perfect storm" of low price, inefficent plowing, and distance between accounts, you would gross about $75 an hour from the time you entered the first driveway, until the time you left the third.


average drive here is 25. i do wish i woudl have charged about 45 for a couple drives i do. they are a real pain.


----------



## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

birddseedd;1586908 said:


> average drive here is 25.
> 
> 
> > ok, how long does it take you to do a $25 average driveway? and what is the average travel time between driveways?


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

linckeil;1586911 said:


> birddseedd;1586908 said:
> 
> 
> > average drive here is 25.QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## Raymond S. (Jan 8, 2008)

birddseedd;1586903 said:


> just what a few guys on PS said. maybe they were the smaller guys. i do about 100 an hour start to finish.


Oh well you didn't say that. If you heard it on Plowsite its GOT to be true.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Raymond S.;1586927 said:


> Oh well you didn't say that. If you heard it on Plowsite its GOT to be true.


chuckles. i know. and there were others that said higher numbers aswell. i woudl assume the people who have been in it longer with better equipment and higher profile clients.


----------



## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

i don't get your math - 3 drives per neighborhood at $25 per drive and 2 mintues to do each drive.... if thats the case as you say, thats $75 in about 15 minutes assuming another 2 minute travel time between drives all within the same neighborhood. so does that mean the remaining 45 minutes of that hour is spent driving to the next neighborhood?????

very little, if any of what you say ever adds up.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

well. there is time between neighborhoods. and a couple lots that i dont make as much on. i only have 8 and not all of them in nice clusters


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Instead of wasting time on PS all day long why don't you start educating yourself on business basics,marketing strategy, etc. Go and do a search online.In one week you'll be up to speed .Just don't get to depressed when you finally admit to yourself that you've been spinning your wheels in a self imposed hack business. Now I'm going to follow my own advice,see ya!


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

why the sudden hostilitity? i have a 5 hour route that brings in 505 dollars and a few hours at 35 an hour. with my direct clients im over 100 an hour. most companies around here only charge 59 an hour for services. plowing is different as you make more in a shorter time and then have nothing to do. 

i dont know why everyone expects me to start out on the top. im growing 50 percent every year. thats more than alot of companies can say.


----------



## CashinH&P (Jan 14, 2012)

birddseedd;1586980 said:


> why the sudden hostilitity? i have a 5 hour route that brings in 505 dollars and a few hours at 35 an hour. with my direct clients im over 100 an hour. most companies around here only charge 59 an hour for services. plowing is different as you make more in a shorter time and then have nothing to do.
> 
> i dont know why everyone expects me to start out on the top. im growing 50 percent every year. thats more than alot of companies can say.


If your growing that much shouldnt you be able to afford some good equipment?


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

CashinH&P;1587005 said:


> If your growing that much shouldnt you be able to afford some good equipment?


that depends on how this summer goes.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

i was actually pleased to purchase a 62" toro. then the wheel motor went out. ill be getting a new one and a few other things with what i made last month.


----------



## commercial_scag (Aug 14, 2009)

birddseedd;1586807 said:


> I find it hard to believe any subs get paid 100 per hour. most plowers it seems only make about 100 per hour.


Whenever I sub, I get 95 per hour. That is with a 3/4 ton and with a power plow and tailgate spreader. Most subs around here are around the 95 per hour amount even if they do not have a spreader.


----------



## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

If your growing that much your prices are to low. 10-12% growth should be your target.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

i know as the company grows the rate of growth per year will drop. its easy to grow from 10k a year to 15k a year. i look forward to the time when 10 percent is a big goal as you said.


----------



## Conmancounty (Jan 1, 2013)

Who do you sub for? I was subbing for a guy that paided a little more than that. I have had my fill of his crap told him to let somebody else do it. Like these guy's on here say don't cut yourself short, I have learned alot on here and i will not do that again. Check out the thread about contract pay.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

well. it was a good start. next year ill fill the few hours in with my own clients


----------



## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

I run 2 trucks.. My route takes about 4 hours per round and my guy is about 3-4 hours. Ranging from 2k-4500k depending on amount of inches. I go through roughly $100-250$ in fuel depending on size of storm between both trucks. plus pay roll. And whatever breaks.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

wilsonsground;1587377 said:


> I run 2 trucks.. My route takes about 4 hours per round and my guy is about 3-4 hours. Ranging from 2k-4500k depending on amount of inches. I go through roughly $100-250$ in fuel depending on size of storm between both trucks. plus pay roll. And whatever breaks.


4500 devided by 8 man hours is 562.5 dollars per hour

noone in michigan will pay for this.you must live in a very expensive area of the nation. in michigan you can get a 150 f private drive done for 10 bucks.


----------



## pats plowing (Nov 27, 2001)

bird,
no one cares u made 502 in however many hours you think it was. quit your plow "hobby" you will thank everyone on here afterwards. your company will not survive from what i have read in the past few pages and before you do lose your house realize you are throwing away money at $35 an hr. If you want to plow for $35 in your own truck, move here I will hire 10 of you and make triple sitting at home. For driveways if you aren't hitting 200+ per hour then why bother?


----------



## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

pats plowing;1587449 said:


> bird,
> no one cares u made 502 in however many hours you think it was. quit your plow "hobby" you will thank everyone on here afterwards. your company will not survive from what i have read in the past few pages and before you do lose your house realize you are throwing away money at $35 an hr. If you want to plow for $35 in your own truck, move here I will hire 10 of you and make triple sitting at home. For driveways if you aren't hitting 200+ per hour then why bother?


I agree. Sound harsh but true. Not everyone can live off plowing through winter. Having the right route and bring quick, efficient, and doing a good job you'll move fast and grab more accounts. 700 a storm I couldn't survive! I'd be bankrupt this winter. We plow 45 drives and 4 small commercial lots on per push basis.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

pats plowing;1587449 said:


> bird,
> no one cares u made 502 in however many hours you think it was. quit your plow "hobby" you will thank everyone on here afterwards. your company will not survive from what i have read in the past few pages and before you do lose your house realize you are throwing away money at $35 an hr. If you want to plow for $35 in your own truck, move here I will hire 10 of you and make triple sitting at home. For driveways if you aren't hitting 200+ per hour then why bother?


i know the 35 an hour isnt much. but its still 26 dollars profit. next year ill have a few more accounts and wont have time to work for him and ill be more profitable. for now it does add to my bottom line. even if its only a small amount.

but as for plowing being my hobby. i respectfully disagree. im making a decent profit with it. the net profits alone pay for my truck for the entire year. ill have cash to repair my mower and get a new trimmer as well as some needed work on my trailer allowing me to make more profit during the summer. Oasis is growing. that is more than a hobby


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

wilsonsground;1587457 said:


> I agree. Sound harsh but true. Not everyone can live off plowing through winter. Having the right route and bring quick, efficient, and doing a good job you'll move fast and grab more accounts. 700 a storm I couldn't survive! I'd be bankrupt this winter. We plow 45 drives and 4 small commercial lots on per push basis.


your right. but i am on my way to better.


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

birddseedd;1586980 said:


> why the sudden hostilitity? i have a 5 hour route that brings in 505 dollars and a few hours at 35 an hour. with my direct clients im over 100 an hour. most companies around here only charge 59 an hour for services. plowing is different as you make more in a shorter time and then have nothing to do.
> 
> i dont know why everyone expects me to start out on the top. im growing 50 percent every year. thats more than alot of companies can say.


It's not hostility,it's frustration.Lots of good advice here but seems like your stuck in an endless rut! You ask questions but don't seem to like the answers.I suggested that you educate yourself regarding business basics.Do you think that would be more advantageous than spending all day defending your flawed business beliefs? Many of your statements and comments lead us to conclusion that you're floundering and ready to sink.Peace out :salute:


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

So your total expenses are 9 dollars an hr?


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

leigh;1587468 said:


> It's not hostility,it's frustration.Lots of good advice here but seems like your stuck in an endless rut! You ask questions but don't seem to like the answers.I suggested that you educate yourself regarding business basics.Do you think that would be more advantageous than spending all day defending your flawed business beliefs? Many of your statements and comments lead us to conclusion that you're floundering and ready to sink.Peace out :salute:


I understand. buy better equipment. only accept the good accounts. at my current level. that simply just is not feasible. yes i am drowning at the moment. but if we have a decent year this summer, i believe you will hear a different story next year. it doesnt happen ove rnight.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

grandview;1587470 said:


> So your total expenses are 9 dollars an hr?


my total and exact expenses. no. but those expenses would have to be averaged over evry work i do all year long and would be insignificant to the couple hours i work for him. 9 dollars an hour is what gas came to. so perhaps im profiting more like 24 or 25 an hour on that job.


----------



## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

birddseedd;1587462 said:


> i know the 35 an hour isnt much. but its still 26 dollars profit. next year ill have a few more accounts and wont have time to work for him and ill be more profitable. for now it does add to my bottom line. even if its only a small amount.
> 
> but as for plowing being my hobby. i respectfully disagree. im making a decent profit with it. the net profits alone pay for my truck for the entire year. ill have cash to repair my mower and get a new trimmer as well as some needed work on my trailer allowing me to make more profit during the summer. Oasis is growing. that is more than a hobby


$26 profit? I'd rather sit at home to be honest. Everyone's
Gotta start somewhere but still way to little for me. I'd need ail lion storms at that profit to pay my bills per month


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

So you don't pay taxes on this 26 dollar profit?


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

wilsonsground;1587477 said:


> $26 profit? I'd rather sit at home to be honest. Everyone's
> Gotta start somewhere but still way to little for me. I'd need ail lion storms at that profit to pay my bills per month


hopefully next year i can say the same thing.


----------



## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

birddseedd;1587473 said:


> I understand. buy better equipment. only accept the good accounts. at my current level. that simply just is not feasible. yes i am drowning at the moment. but if we have a decent year this summer, i believe you will hear a different story next year. it doesnt happen ove rnight.


One thing in this business, you can't rely on the up coming year to make up for losses. Just words from the wise.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

grandview;1587478 said:


> So you don't pay taxes on this 26 dollar profit?


point taken


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

wilsonsground;1587480 said:


> One thing in this business, you can't rely on the up coming year to make up for losses. Just words from the wise.


maybe i can explain a bit further. its not the company that is drowning, but rather my own finances. which means im not getting enough work, or enough margin for the work i do have.

that said.... i billed out almost 7k this month. once it comes in i believe everything will get better in that aspect.


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Billed 7k and owe 6k,,so 200 a week.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

grandview;1587491 said:


> Billed 7k and owe 6k,,so 200 a week.


oh ha ha.

that 7k and what i get for this month will get me some new equipment and advertising for the summer season.


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

How much of that 7k you keeping for yourself?


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

grandview;1587498 said:


> How much of that 7k you keeping for yourself?


keep for myself as my income or net profit?

for myself only what i need to pay my bills and buy a new car seat for my kid


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Income comes out as expenses.Then you pay all your other bills ,then you'll be at a loss.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

grandview;1587506 said:


> Income comes out as expenses.Then you pay all your other bills ,then you'll be at a loss.


I havnt really logged my hours. there is enough to pay the bills, buy some new equipment. help with my personal bills and have enough cash left over to get me into the mowing season.


----------



## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

What happens if someone decides not to pay?


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

kimber750;1587529 said:


> What happens if someone decides not to pay?


that number is based on the people that will pay. there are others that owe me that i know will be late, others i plan on taking to court once i have the cash to do so.


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Ok,lets try this.Can each of your seasons stand alone?


----------



## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

So you billed 10storms in the past month? Wow wish I had that here in NH!


----------



## allseasons87 (Nov 29, 2011)

We bill between $3-4K per plowable event. Walks, calcium, and salt included. All of our plowing and walks are flat rate. Total storm revenue depends how much we sub with a other company after our route is done. We get $65 hr per truck for all 3 trucks from them.


----------



## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Wait a minute, you only use $9 of fuel an hour? You plowing with a Prius? I just know there is no way I would be able to plow for what you are making, not carrying my insurance, maintenance and fuel. And I am just a sub so I don't have any of the overhead of billing, bidding, writing contracts or any of the other things that come along with snow removal business. 

What I do know is that in my line of business, rental properties, I am setup that I can be down 40% of my properties and still making money. This cushion gives me room for any major repairs or any other unforeseen events. Another thing I learned is your best tenant can become your worst very quickly, so never count that money until you have it in your hand. You would probably cry if you knew how much I lose each year in uncollected rent. And taking them to court may make you feel good and you will most likely win but that doesn't mean you will ever see that money.


----------



## RJ lindblom (Sep 21, 2006)

grandview;1587491 said:


> Billed 7k and owe 6k,,so 200 a week.


His math doesn't add up at all. It doesn't compute.


----------



## CashinH&P (Jan 14, 2012)

birddseedd;1587462 said:


> i know the 35 an hour isnt much. but its still 26 dollars profit. next year ill have a few more accounts and wont have time to work for him and ill be more profitable. for now it does add to my bottom line. even if its only a small amount.
> 
> but as for plowing being my hobby. i respectfully disagree. im making a decent profit with it. the net profits alone pay for my truck for the entire year. ill have cash to repair my mower and get a new trimmer as well as some needed work on my trailer allowing me to make more profit during the summer. Oasis is growing. that is more than a hobby


This proves you dont get it. And you obviously never will.

LISTEN TO WHAT WE ARE TELLING YOU! Bird youve gotten more advice then I can count and yet you refuse to take it.


----------



## SSS Inc. (Oct 18, 2010)

Why would he take advice from people that constantly bash him. The guy is doing his thing. He might do a really nice job so if he can make it work great. If he can't, he'll figure that out soon enough. Two things I have learned from reading on here is not to take advice from guys that have been plowing for two years and don't get advice on pricing from people in Missouri. What's the average snow in Missouri.. like 10"??? I would want a couple grand an hour if average is 2-3 plowings. payup


----------



## CashinH&P (Jan 14, 2012)

SSS Inc.;1587742 said:


> Why would he take advice from people that constantly bash him. The guy is doing his thing. He might do a really nice job so if he can make it work great. If he can't, he'll figure that out soon enough. Two things I have learned from reading on here is not to take advice from guys that have been plowing for two years and don't get advice on pricing from people in Missouri. What's the average snow in Missouri.. like 10"??? I would want a couple grand an hour if average is 2-3 plowings. payup


Hey it may only be my second year plowing but Iv learned alot (on here and from people I know personaly) Im no expert, Hell im the first guy to admit it, but I do know a thing or two. I just try and pass the buck so to speak and help out the next guy.


----------



## SSS Inc. (Oct 18, 2010)

Whats funny is that this thread started out with some decent responses to his questions. Many of the guys that responded weren't that far off from his numbers per truck whether they had one truck or seven. The hang up seemed to occur when $35 became an issue. Yes that's really cheap but if your trying to put food on the table, you already have a truck and insurance is going to be paid whether you sub for a couple hours at $35 or not, then why wouldn't he do it. If I was struggling I would do whatever it takes to make it. It may not be ideal but quit and go on welfare. Seriously? This is what wrong these days, people aren't willing to do whatever it takes to get by. Sit on the couch instead, it will be easier. There was a time when people like my grandfather would drive 50 miles to work on a asphalt paving crew for 12 hours only to drive home to work another job overnight. For you guys that like to bash others equipment how did you start out? I know very few people that start in this business with brand new equipment and for the ones that do a lot of times I'm buying it after one bad winter.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

SSS Inc.;1587774 said:


> Whats funny is that this thread started out with some decent responses to his questions. Many of the guys that responded weren't that far off from his numbers per truck whether they had one truck or seven. The hang up seemed to occur when $35 became an issue. Yes that's really cheap but if your trying to put food on the table, you already have a truck and insurance is going to be paid whether you sub for a couple hours at $35 or not, then why wouldn't he do it. If I was struggling I would do whatever it takes to make it. It may not be ideal but quit and go on welfare. Seriously? This is what wrong these days, people aren't willing to do whatever it takes to get by. Sit on the couch instead, it will be easier. There was a time when people like my grandfather would drive 50 miles to work on a asphalt paving crew for 12 hours only to drive home to work another job overnight. For you guys that like to bash others equipment how did you start out? I know very few people that start in this business with brand new equipment and for the ones that do a lot of times I'm buying it after one bad winter.


I can say im looking forward to not working for him next year.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

grandview;1587541 said:


> Ok,lets try this.Can each of your seasons stand alone?


well. i suppose that depends on if you count a steady pay for myself. i pretty much get what is left over, and that is not always a very high amount. but if we get another drought like we had last year. i dont know.


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

ok guys, agree to disagree, for good or bad, right or wrong, whether one agrees or not with certain ways someone prices out their routes, etc. there is no need to continue "attacking" one another within discussions. some members need to either utilize the "ignore' feature here on the site or just not respond to one another if they feel the need to just insult and/or degrade other members equipment, pricing structure, how they run their routes or businesses

thanks and let's move on from this discussion :waving:


----------

