# Union?



## grandview

So what would you do if your employees came up and said they want to unionize?


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## snocrete

grandview;1022945 said:


> So what would you do if your employees came up and said they want to unionize?


Why would they want to do that?


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## 2COR517

In the words of Donald Trump - "You're fired!"


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## grandview

snocrete;1022952 said:


> Why would they want to do that?


I don't know. Just starting a topic.



2COR517;1022953 said:


> In the words of Donald Trump - "You're fired!"


I don't think you can.


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## 2COR517

snocrete;1022952 said:


> Why would they want to do that?


Because the union reps will promise them bigger wages, more benefits, etc.

Reagan fired 11,000 Unionized Air Traffic Controllers in 1981.


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## Rc2505

I agree, everyone of them would be fired, and I would be looking for new help. I have to deal with Union stuff all the time for my contracting work, and it's the biggest pain in the rear. If I had to deal with it for plowing I would either find new employees, or I would sell everything and just sit on my butt for the winter.


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## snowdreaming

Rc2505;1023058 said:


> I agree, everyone of them would be fired, and I would be looking for new help. I have to deal with Union stuff all the time for my contracting work, and it's the biggest pain in the rear. If I had to deal with it for plowing I would either find new employees, or I would sell everything and just sit on my butt for the winter.


If we had union employees for plowing and all getting paid $100 an hour and benefits than one day we will get a bailout and overseas plowing companies will be #1 until their plows fall to peices in a big recall and then we are #1 again


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## RobE

2COR517;1022953 said:


> In the words of Donald Trump - "You're fired!"


+1, but I would laugh in their face first.


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## LoneCowboy

Firing them is 
A. illegal
B. a certain way to end up with a union.

I would have a calm discussion with them about the benefits of not being union. If they choose to the election to see if they are certified, I would continue to do all under my powers under the fair labor standards act to convince them that they should vote against the union.
If they certified the union, I would of course, bargain in good faith with the union.
If the union terms of employment were too onerous for my company to continue making a profit, I would shut down the company.

That's what all the tax and spend politicians, the "i want more money" employees/non-workers don't seem to get.
I don't have to bust my tail and risk all my money to do this.


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## Luther

They would ruin the reputation of hard working, going above and beyond the call of duty type of companies....if not the entire industry.

Can you imagine dealing with;

"slow down bro....you can't work that fast....you'll ruin it for the rest of us"

"you can't make me work more than x amount of hours"

"that's not my job man"

"where's my pension.....I deserve it"

"let's boycott and shut them down....we deserve more money because more time went by"

and all the other union crybaby crap they default to. :laughing:


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## 2COR517

Can you imagine how many guys you would need on the books to handle a 36 hour storm?


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## Luther

Exactly......the union mentality just doesn't get it.


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## Matson Snow

TCLA;1023151 said:


> They would ruin the reputation of hard working, going above and beyond the call of duty type of companies....if not the entire industry.
> 
> Can you imagine dealing with;
> 
> "slow down bro....you can't work that fast....you'll ruin it for the rest of us"
> 
> "you can't make me work more than x amount of hours"
> 
> "that's not my job man"
> 
> "where's my pension.....I deserve it"
> 
> "let's boycott and shut them down....we deserve more money because more time went by"
> 
> and all the other union crybaby crap they default to. :laughing:


I deal with the union on a daily basis....TCLA could have not said it better..The unions mentality is horray for me,Screw the company....Their are some Good Men and Women in the union...But , the union system is broken....In this day and age we need good hard working people...Not lazy asses that want a pay check for nothing.....So if one of my employees came to me about the union..I would politely decline the advances..Most likley that will be the end of it......


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## Matson Snow

2COR517;1023155 said:


> Can you imagine how many guys you would need on the books to handle a 36 hour storm?


You would need 7 guys to just drive one Truck....One to hold the steering wheel, One to shift the truck, One to push the gas peddle, One to push the brake,One to give directions, and a Union steward in case they need to file a grievance..Also a safety Monitor....


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## Rc2505

A 36 hour storm with my 5 trucks would require 19 employees, if they didn't take the usual 25 minute union break every 2 hours.


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## Luther

Let's not forget;

"you want me to work on Sunday?...hahahahahahah!"

"you want me to work on Christmas!?!?....hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah!!!!"

Accommodating a Mennonite is enough of a pain.....


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## Matson Snow

TCLA;1023169 said:


> Let's not forget;
> 
> "you want me to work on Sunday?...hahahahahahah!"
> 
> "you want me to work on Christmas!?!?....hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah!!!!"
> 
> Accommodating a Mennonite is enough of a pain.....


Also, lets not forget the 60 paid sick days and the 6 weeks paid vacation...Plus when the plants shut down for re- tooling ..We get 90% of our pay....

Mennonite...What are you building furniture over there too......


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## 2COR517

Matson Snow;1023166 said:


> You would need 7 guys to just drive one Truck....One to hold the steering wheel, One to shift the truck, One to push the gas peddle, One to push the brake,One to give directions, and a Union steward in case they need to file a grievance..Also a safety Monitor....


Multiply that by two, because you would never get them to work more than 12 hours.


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## Bajak

grandview;1022945 said:


> So what would you do if your employees came up and said they want to unionize?


I'd say "Great, you have every right too.....By the way I'm selling the shop."


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## Burkartsplow

Firing them would not be illegal as in most states your employees are considered "employees at will", which means you can fire an employee for any reason you want besides discriminating against there race, religion, culture etc etc. So what I would do is Fire Them and find someone else. Simple fix.


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## Mick76

Burkartsplow;1023191 said:


> Firing them would not be illegal as in most states your employees are considered "employees at will", which means you can fire an employee for any reason you want besides discriminating against there race, religion, culture etc etc. So what I would do is Fire Them and find someone else. Simple fix.


BINGO!... Maines an at will state, thank goodness!... I dispise unions!


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## Westhardt Corp.

Illinois, too, is an "at will" state, and the unions around Chicago can be vicious. But, as so many trucking companies have done, the answer is quite simple. I should preclude this with "if the employees seriously want to unionize, then maybe you're doing something wrong--happy employees could care less".

That being said, my response:

"NOTICE: It has come to my attention that a vote is being considered to allow for Union representation of our family of employees. While this does concern me somewhat, it is only honorable and fair for me, as a business owner, to allow the employees the freedom to do what they feel is in their best interests. It should be noted, though, that for every driver currently employed with us, there are five qualified owner-operators who are currently out of work, and could easily sub-contract their services in a moment's notice, with little more than a phone call. Said owner-operators are responsible for their own equipment, fuel and insurance, and would allow the Company to reduce its footprint and total overhead to perhaps a small shop and some yard space. This would save the Company money, not to mention the Company's contributions to our employees payroll and benefits as well as Worker's Compensation insurance. Likewise, these owner-operators can be held to a higher standard of performance, because they are Vendors. Failure to perform would result in the immediate (and quite simple & clean) cessation of that Vendor's services, without any further paperwork beyond final payment.

It should also be noted that Vendors are required to Invoice the Company for their services, thus reducing the administrative expenses required to process billing for services rendered. Failure to Invoice accordingly would result in no payments for services. Lastly, it should be noted that owner-operators have no legal restrictions whatsoever on the methods they utilize to accomplish the tasks requested by their Customer (that would be us, the Company). They can work as long as they want, when they want--as long as the work gets done...and very seldom will it facilitate a change in their billing rate. Of course, there is the obvious exception to this with the FMCSA mandated hours or service rules, but in fairness, that is at their discretion only. How a Vendor runs their company is their business. Simply put, it is not our problem. 

That having been said, I encourage our employees to do what's best for them.

Have a great day!"

:laughing:


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## buckwheat_la

so you want to unionize huh? Well it has been decided by upper management (ME) that we are going to downsize the company, and sub out more of our work sorry, "by the way, i shall be telling every potential employeer, and any buisnesses i deal with in general, that you took the initiative to start a union, so any future employeers can see how ambitious you are (and hopefully be scared away from hiring you) . I have never really like unions, although i think they had their place in the past, the truth is there is enough legislative law to protect workers rights, that unions are nothing more then price fixing, for workers. I am not allowed to price fix, why should employees be able to?


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## JohnnyRoyale

My guys got approached by a union rep on a commercial construction job a few years back and simply and quite clearly told him to F-O... before I could.


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## Westhardt Corp.

That would indicate that you are doing something _right._


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## Luther

buckwheat_la;1023285 said:


> so you want to unionize huh? I am not allowed to price fix, why should employees be able to?


I like that....that's a great angle :salute:


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## JohnnyRoyale

Westhardt Corp.;1023339 said:


> That would indicate that you are doing something _right._


We try to take care of our guys the best we can....sometimes its never enough though. I was suprised they acted the way they did quite honestly.


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## albhb3

OK who did Grandview piss off this time

On a side note my father caught wind of a mfg company hiring a few people who are under a union making bed bug heaters or something. To be on the damn line they were paying to START 22 per hour PLUS bennies.This was 10 hour days 4days a week On top of that they had MANDATORY overtime that turned into 7 days a week must be nice to make more on OT then on straight 40. I mean WTF a monkey could do that


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## shooterm

I've personaly dont even like prevailing wage jobs. We've had whole crews destroyed over landscapers becoming laborer issues.


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## Westhardt Corp.

albhb3;1029683 said:


> OK who did Grandview piss off this time
> 
> On a side note my father caught wind of a mfg company hiring a few people who are under a union making bed bug heaters or something. To be on the damn line they were paying to START 22 per hour PLUS bennies.This was 10 hour days 4days a week On top of that they had MANDATORY overtime that turned into 7 days a week must be nice to make more on OT then on straight 40. I mean WTF a monkey could do that


And then they will wonder why their plant was outsourced...


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## albhb3

hahaha that sounds right


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## YardMedic

Wow, the majority of folks have never been in a profession where unions fight for basic rights. I believe there's a gross misunderstanding of why unions exist. If I can concede that some unions behave irresponsibly, why can't many of you admit that what I say is often true too?


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## cubanb343

I'm in a union. I've worked well past 12 hours in a day, worked Saturdays and Sundays, and even some holidays... I go to work, do my job, and come home. Am I doing something wrong here?


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## buckwheat_la

my personal belief is that we live in a society that now has rules to protect workers rights, In Canada, there are so many rules that dictate how i can pay, and overtime, etc. why are unions required anymore? Seriously, now Unions are there to protect employees from being fired that really should be fired, so they get $30, $40, $50 dollars a hour, and many other crazy conditions. i am not saying unions never had a part to play in employee rights, but aren't we past that time?


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## cubanb343

From my experience, if a worker isn't doing his job and should be fired, he is. And the company calls the hall for a replacement. 
Unions today aim to offer a skilled workforce. How many of you have had trouble finding good operators, or good plow drivers, or good employees in general? I'm not here to argue every union worker is a good egg, but I know it's a fact good help is hard to come by. We could argue all day about this, bottom line is there are some good unions and some bad.


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## 2COR517

What job in America requires a union to get basic rights?


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## Matson Snow

2COR517;1031593 said:


> What job in America requires a union to get basic rights?


I was gonna write a response..But im on Strike....Or Break..Or Hiding from the foreman...Or having a cig when i should be working...Or Filing a grievance...Or sittting around telling everyone how tough i got it....Etc,Etc.....


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## Mackman

Just keeping my 2cents to my self. But i am very PRO UNION. Teamsters all the way.

RIP Jimmy Hoffa


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## 2COR517

And I thought there wouldn't be anything going on here tonight.....


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## 2COR517

Mackman;1031604 said:


> ....But i am very PRO UNION.......


Why is that?


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## Matson Snow

Mackman;1031604 said:


> Just keeping my 2cents to my self. But i am very PRO UNION. Teamsters all the way.
> 
> RIP Jimmy Hoffa


22 Year Teamster...Local 247...Teamsters are a JOKE....Im ashamed to say im a teamster......


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## Mackman

2COR517;1031607 said:


> Why is that?


Well im not really going to get into it. Cuz this is one subject that really gets me fired up bad.

BTW on the whole firing thing. Your state can be what ever state it wants but under *FEDERAL LAW * an employer CANNOT

• Fire, punish, intimidate, or coerce employees seeking to organize or join a labor union.

• Threaten to close the facility or lay off employees if they organize a union.

• Tell employees that unionization will take away benefits and privileges currently in place

• Bribe employees to vote against the union, or promise other benefits or privileges in order to influence their vote

• Ask about union activities, how employees intend to vote, or if they have signed a union card


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## Mackman

Matson Snow;1031608 said:


> 22 Year Teamster...Local 247...Teamsters are a JOKE....Im ashamed to say im a teamster......


Must of been your local the one i was in was great. If it was such a joke then why did you stay 22 years?


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## 2COR517

Mackman;1031613 said:


> Well im not really going to get into it. Cuz this is one subject that really gets me fired up bad.
> 
> BTW on the whole firing thing. Your state can be what ever state it wants but under *FEDERAL LAW * an employer CANNOT
> 
> • Fire, punish, intimidate, or coerce employees seeking to organize or join a labor union.
> 
> • Threaten to close the facility or lay off employees if they organize a union.
> 
> • Tell employees that unionization will take away benefits and privileges currently in place
> 
> • Bribe employees to vote against the union, or promise other benefits or privileges in order to influence their vote
> 
> • Ask about union activities, how employees intend to vote, or if they have signed a union card


Are those constitutional rights?

Would still like to know why you are PRO UNION.....


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## Matson Snow

Mackman;1031614 said:


> Must of been your local the one i was in was great. If it was such a joke then why did you stay 22 years?


No choice.....Had to...If your a Mixer Driver or support personal you have to be a teamster in the Detroit area....


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## 2COR517

Matson Snow;1031624 said:


> No choice.....Had to...If your a Mixer Driver or support personal you have to be a teamster in the Detroit area....


That's terrible. Unions RULE!


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## Matson Snow

2COR517;1031629 said:


> That's terrible. Unions RULE!


Why You Smart A#$......:laughing:


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## Mackman

2COR517;1031623 said:


> Would still like to know why you are PRO UNION.....


Im not really going to get into it and get all fired up over some non-union guys on plow-site.



Matson Snow;1031624 said:


> No choice.....Had to...If your a Mixer Driver or support personal you have to be a teamster in the Detroit area....


I see. Well sorry you were not happy with your local. Did you go to all your union meeting to put in your 2cents and to let them know why you were un-happy??


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## 2COR517

Who forces you to join the union, and how the hell do they get off doing that?


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## 2COR517

IMO, anyone who needs/wants be evaluated and compensated as part of a group, must be a slacker. 

If I do a great job, I don't want to be held back by the rest of the crew.


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## Mackman

2COR517;1031637 said:


> IMO, anyone who needs/wants be evaluated and compensated as part of a group, must be a slacker.
> 
> If I do a great job, I don't want to be held back by the rest of the crew.


I agree with that to a point. What happens when you do a great job but the company holds you back??


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## 2COR517

Mackman;1031639 said:


> I agree with that to a point. What happens when you do a great job but the company holds you back??


Go somewhere else. If you're that good, should be able to land a new job before supper.


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## Mackman

2COR517;1031640 said:


> Go somewhere else. If you're that good, should be able to land a new job before supper.


I guess soo. If thats what you want to do.


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## Matson Snow

2COR517;1031634 said:


> Who forces you to join the union, and how the hell do they get off doing that?


Its easy Palmer....If you want this job...You gotta join the teamsters..Simple as that...


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## 2COR517

I guess I don't understand why the company wouldn't hire you directly. I'm not feeling to bright tonight....


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## Matson Snow

2COR517;1031644 said:


> I guess I don't understand why the company wouldn't hire you directly. I'm not feeling to bright tonight....


The company does hire you direct...Then on your first day of work you are handed paper work for the Union by the Union Steward.and Bingo you are now a member of the teamsters...The company even takes the Union dues out of your check each month for you..isnt that nice....In the Detroit Area you could not get on a construction job with out being in the union...That is changing....But still to this day 90% of the redi-mix drivers are teamsters


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## 2COR517

Well, that sucks. Sorry to hear that you are in that situation.


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## cubanb343

What's wrong with that situation? Many townships are unions, PennDot is union, like matson said, many concrete truck drivers are union. If he didn't like it on his first day he should've left. 22 years, how was your rate? Pretty good i imagine. There are far too many people that bash unions without having any first hand experience with one. That would be like me bashing BOSS plows. I don't have one so I'll bash it. Never used one but I'll bash it. Doesn't make much sense really.


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## Matson Snow

cubanb343;1031669 said:


> What's wrong with that situation? Many townships are unions, PennDot is union, like matson said, many concrete truck drivers are union. If he didn't like it on his first day he should've left. 22 years, how was your rate? Pretty good i imagine. There are far too many people that bash unions without having any first hand experience with one. That would be like me bashing BOSS plows. I don't have one so I'll bash it. Never used one but I'll bash it. Doesn't make much sense really.


Lets see.....The Union did such a great job we just took a $7 an hour pay cut and have to pay a part of our health care..Plus the Central States Pension keeps changing the retirement age..When i first started it was 25 years and out with full pension..Now its a sliding scale.....Plus the teamsters pension will be broke anyway in a few years due to the fact there is way more guys retired than their are working.....Yes it WAS a good paying job..Thats why i did not leave..I....


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## buckwheat_la

Mackman, i can just picture you biting your tongue right now. This subject was the topic of a rather heated debate in the Other Topics thread a month ago. I guess i just don't understand what the point of a Union is in todays age. All the unions i see are all about excesses (2cor517 i am sure my grammer isn't right here) and sticking it to the company. The problem with sticking it to the company, is that most companies are already treating their employees very well. And i think a company is at a disadvantage if they are dealing with a union, harder to fire people that deserve firing, harder to impliment structured buisness plans for the sake of the company. Why should a employee dictate to me how i run my company? There are lemployer aws, and i follow those laws concerning my employees, now they want to tell me when i well give a raise to them? how about you earn your raise.


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## cretebaby

Matson Snow;1031673 said:


> Lets see.....The Union did such a great job we just took a $7 an hour pay cut and have to pay a part of our health care..Plus the Central States Pension keeps changing the retirement age..When i first started it was 25 years and out with full pension..Now its a sliding scale.....Plus the teamsters pension will be broke anyway in a few years due to the fact there is way more guys retired than their are working.....Yes it WAS a good paying job..Thats why i did not leave..I....


I am guessing that MI is not a right to work state?


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## cubanb343

But I thought UNIONS wanted this healthcare bill?! NOPE. Not mine, not me. Plus, your paycut and pension problems most likely stem from the wonderful Detroit area being so economically inclined right about now. Not sure that's the union's fault. 

Right to work is a joke, all it does is bring down wages. 

Also, some of you guys are talking about working for one company, being happy or not. There are so many variables in this argument it's ridiculous. I work for many different companies, not just one. Some of this is like apples vs. oranges, and not every argument is relevant to another situation. 

There are some union workers who work for one company forever, there are some who work through the hall for many different contractors. There are shop contracts, there are building contracts, there are highway contracts. It's insanity for us to try and compare bits and pieces from each side against another. Makes my head spin


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## 2COR517

You don't think a good portion of Detroit's problems are due to the UAW?


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## cubanb343

Oh yeah, for sure- but matson is a teamster. Like i said, there are so many sides to this. I bet Grandview is laughing because he knew all of this was coming when he started this thread- HAHA


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## cretebaby

cubanb343;1031716 said:


> But I thought UNIONS wanted this healthcare bill?! NOPE. Not mine, not me. Plus, your paycut and pension problems most likely stem from *the wonderful Detroit area being so economically inclined right about now. Not sure that's the union's fault. *
> 
> Right to work is a joke, all it does is bring down wages.
> 
> Also, some of you guys are talking about working for one company, being happy or not. There are so many variables in this argument it's ridiculous. I work for many different companies, not just one. Some of this is like apples vs. oranges, and not every argument is relevant to another situation.
> 
> There are some union workers who work for one company forever, there are some who work through the hall for many different contractors. There are shop contracts, there are building contracts, there are highway contracts. It's insanity for us to try and compare bits and pieces from each side against another. Makes my head spin


You really do have the union blinders on eh?


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## cubanb343

That's grouping all of the unions together, which doesn't work. UAW vs. teamsters? I already said some are bad some are good.


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## swtiih

When i get off my union break and back to work I will give my response


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## swtiih

Seriously I have worked both as a union and non union worker They both have their advantages and disadvantages. If you are making money as a business owner and your employees are treated well there is no need for a union.


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## 2COR517

You only get a four minute break? STRIKE!!


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## cubanb343

swtiih;1031750 said:


> Seriously I have worked both as a union and non union worker They both have their advantages and disadvantages. If you are making money as a business owner and your employees are treated well there is no need for a union.


That is one of the best comments on here.
Short and directly to the point.
Thank you


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## shooterm

We just had our company bought out by a much larger outfit from another state. I cant find another company thats bringing anyone in other then foremans this year. We're even "suppose" to live in a recession proof town. Seems my only legit opening is a road company thats strictly union. I dont care I'll wear chicken suit and salute dali lama if it gets me out of my house.


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## YardMedic

cubanb343;1031753 said:


> That is one of the best comments on here.
> Short and directly to the point.
> Thank you


That's where I was headed too

But let's throw in Chevy versus Ford, Fisher versus Boss


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## Lux Lawn

Matson Snow;1023166 said:


> You would need 7 guys to just drive one Truck....One to hold the steering wheel, One to shift the truck, One to push the gas peddle, One to push the brake,One to give directions, and a Union steward in case they need to file a grievance..Also a safety Monitor....


You would need six extra guys leaning on shovels watching one guy shovel a sidewalk.


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## cretebaby

cubanb343;1031739 said:


> That's grouping all of the unions together, which doesn't work. UAW vs. teamsters? I already said* some are bad some are good*.


So is the UAW a bad one and the Teamsters are a good one?


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## Mick76

I too have worked for a union in the past, as well as my father in law just retired from 25 years in the local laborers union. Unions HAD their place MANY years ago. They are no longer needed in IMO. Unions favor mediocrity and time management (meaning take your sweet azz time finishing that project). They get ridiculous wages and benefits for the work they do and ***** when they're asked to do alittle more then they're required to do. I've seen it first hand. Your sadly mistaken if you think the UAW didn't play a large factor in Detroit. 
I CAN'T STAND THEM!


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## 2COR517

I like you more and more..

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## cubanb343

Mick76;1031848 said:


> I too have worked for a union in the past, as well as my father in law just retired from 25 years in the local laborers union. Unions HAD their place MANY years ago. They are no longer needed in IMO. Unions favor mediocrity and time management (meaning take your sweet azz time finishing that project). They get ridiculous wages and benefits for the work they do and ***** when they're asked to do alittle more then they're required to do. I've seen it first hand. Your sadly mistaken if you think the UAW didn't play a large factor in Detroit.
> I CAN'T STAND THEM!


How did your father in law like it? Apparently it was just fine to stay in 25 years IMO- There's way more finger pointing to go on then just at the UAW, you're sadly mistaken if you think otherwise. And your "first hand" experience with a union sounds questionable at best. Maybe your friend of a friend told you about a bad situation- Let's get some facts for once


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## Mick76

cubanb343;1031887 said:


> How did your father in law like it? Apparently it was just fine to stay in 25 years IMO- There's way more finger pointing to go on then just at the UAW, you're sadly mistaken if you think otherwise. And your "first hand" experience with a union sounds questionable at best. Maybe your friend of a friend told you about a bad situation- Let's get some facts for once


You don't know me, and i don't know you. I did work for Bath Iron Works (BIW) the nations second largest shipyard if your not familiar with it. I stated that Unions favor mediocrity, I love my father in law but he has no ambition and is VERY mediocre... he is one lazy guy (why do you think he got 25 years in?)

facts are facts, and I won't lose a wink of sleep tonight if you believe me or not

You can keep on defending unions... thats your right, but people believe what they believe and from having "that first hand knowledge" I know what I say to be true...

carry on all I'm done here......


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## 2COR517

cubanb343;1031887 said:


> How did your father in law like it? Apparently it was just fine to stay in 25 years IMO- There's way more finger pointing to go on then just at the UAW, you're sadly mistaken if you think otherwise. And your "first hand" experience with a union sounds questionable at best. Maybe your friend of a friend told you about a bad situation- Let's get some facts for once


Who said it's just the UAW? Mick is sharing his experience from a non-UAW union.

How about the NEA? They're possibly the most dangerous group in the country.


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## cretebaby

2COR517;1031967 said:


> Who said it's just the UAW? Mick is sharing his experience from a non-UAW union.
> 
> *How about the NEA? They're possibly the most dangerous group in the country*.


You ain't kidding there Napper.


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## grandview

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1486380/posts

Little long but there are 2 good stories about the unions hiring non union workers because they were cheaper.


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## Mackman

Hey Cuban just give up. These guys will never understand. Allot of these members are landscapers and what not and like there illegal Mexican help at 25/day. That's why I'm not getting involved you wont win with these guys.

We need a blow up Scab Rat for plowsite like we use on scab work sites.


----------



## 2COR517

Mackman;1032036 said:


> Hey Cuban just give up. These guys will never understand. Allot of these members are landscapers and what not and like there illegal Mexican help at 25/day. That's why I'm not getting involved you wont win with these guys.


Do you really think any of the anti-union guys here are using illegal labor at those prices?


----------



## Matson Snow

I would GLADLY be a scab rat if i could escape the union...But my job makes me be in the union....Keep waving that union flag and when the pension fund is Broke in a few years we will talk...The company i work for has to pay $7 an hour over and above my wage to the union....$5 an hour to the almost Broke pension fund and $2 an hour to the teamster health care that i now pay a portion also....Dont Preach Unions to me..I come from the Birthplace of unions...Come drive up to Detroit and see how YOUR union Brothers and Sisters are doing...


----------



## Mackman

You can leave your union job anytime you want. You say your a mixer driver right?? So that means you have to have at least a class B. Go drive a dump truck or tow truck some short of truck. I'm sure not all the trucks running around Detroit are union. Do others at your work place feel the same way as you?? You can vote a union out you know.


----------



## Mackman

BTW if you don't mind me askin what is your hourly rate??


----------



## Matson Snow

Mackman;1032064 said:


> BTW if you don't mind me askin what is your hourly rate??


Im not talking money on here....If your a teamster like you say you are....You should have a pretty good idea....Reason why im so sour on unions are many...They Protect people that should not be protected.....The Detroit area is in rough shape...In the redi-mix industry is in rough shape due to the economy.....Trust me, 90% of the redi-mix drivers in the Detroit area would love to get rid of the union,,,But since a large majority of the work comes from the Big 3 auto companys you have to be union....Im glad your happy with the union...But up here in Detroit, The Teamsters are a JOKE....


----------



## Mackman

Matson Snow;1032071 said:


> Im not talking money on here....If your a teamster like you say you are....You should have a pretty good idea....Reason why im so sour on unions are many...They Protect people that should not be protected.....The Detroit area is in rough shape...In the redi-mix industry is in rough shape due to the economy.....Trust me, 90% of the redi-mix drivers in the Detroit area would love to get rid of the union,,,But since a large majority of the work comes from the Big 3 auto companys you have to be union....Im glad your happy with the union...But up here in Detroit, The Teamsters are a JOKE....


Well union pay scale in Philly can be anywhere at 19/hr to 27/hr really depends on the local and the type of company. Detroit sounds like its in real bad shape. Philly isnt doing the greatest but we sound better then detroit. Good luck to you.


----------



## Mackman

Matson Snow;1032071 said:


> If your a teamster like you say you are


Just to let you know im not a teamster now. I was a teamster. Now i drive for a scab company but im tryin hard to get into a teamster company. The company i worked for downsized and laid me off.


----------



## 2COR517

Mackman;1032076 said:


> Well union pay scale in Philly can be anywhere at 19/hr to 27/hr really depends on the local and the type of company. Detroit sounds like its in real bad shape. Philly isnt doing the greatest but we sound better then detroit. Good luck to you.


50% pay variance for doing the same job? That seems like a lot just for being in the "Right" local.....


----------



## Mackman

2COR517;1032080 said:


> 50% pay variance for doing the same job? That seems like a lot just for being in the "Right" local.....


Well alot also does with the type of trucking companys. I mean gasoline haulers make more then dump trucks. So a Gas Company like Sunoco can pay 25.oo/hr starting to wear a dump truck company only pays 20.00/hr starting. But there are some real 1/2 azz locals out there that wont fight for you. Then there are others that will kill for you. Thats how it is in the philly area.


----------



## 2COR517

Why wouldn't you just want to fight for yourself?


----------



## Mackman

2COR517;1032088 said:


> Why wouldn't you just want to fight for yourself?


More power in numbers.


----------



## 2COR517

Mackman;1032090 said:


> More power in numbers.


Only if you're below the average. If you are above the average, you should be able to negotiate a better deal yourself.


----------



## Luther

Mackman;1032084 said:


> But there are some real 1/2 azz locals out there that wont fight for you. Then there are others that will kill for you. Thats how it is in the philly area.





Mackman;1032090 said:


> More power in numbers.





Mackman;1031613 said:


> Your state can be what ever state it wants but under *FEDERAL LAW * an employer CANNOT
> 
> • Fire, punish, intimidate, or coerce employees seeking to organize or join a labor union.
> 
> • Threaten to close the facility or lay off employees if they organize a union.
> 
> • Tell employees that unionization will take away benefits and privileges currently in place
> 
> • Bribe employees to vote against the union, or promise other benefits or privileges in order to influence their vote
> 
> • Ask about union activities, how employees intend to vote, or if they have signed a union card


Great approach....you don't get what you want, so intimidate. Typical Mob mentality.

I was a teamster member, local 299, steelworker in the mid 70's. Hated it. Lets not pretend that the mob doesn't still have their fingers in the pot.

It has always bred mediocrity and squelches those who do speak up......2COR is right on.

Jimmy Hoffa was a crook.....he is not to be glorified. Fitzpatrick wasn't any better. Thanks my union brothers, for doing nothing to the bottom feeder who bashed out my teeth cause I wasn't slow enough while doing my job running a steel slitter. I know it's not right, but my grudge is strong.....

And yes, the legacy costs' have been killing the big 3. Right on UAW....thanks for nothin.


----------



## T-MAN

Mackman;1032036 said:


> Hey Cuban just give up. These guys will never understand. Allot of these members are landscapers and what not and like there illegal Mexican help at 25/day. That's why I'm not getting involved you wont win with these guys.
> 
> We need a blow up Scab Rat for plowsite like we use on scab work sites.


Hey Mackman, I seen that rat on many non union plumbers sites here.
The plumbers union hires mexicans from the temp day labor place to picket because there cheaper  They buss em in.
No BS

Carpenters union here is in shambles now. Its all mexicans for the most part. Once they hit a 3rd 4th year apprenticeship the companys lays em off. We got companys here now bringing there own employees from out of state as well, instead of hiring from the hall.
The trade unions have just about had it here. Sad to see guys pay in all there lives, and now there pensions are going bankrupt. In about 5 years theres gonna be one hell of a **** storm. Better hope O-Boy gots some money in the mattress stashed for there bailout.


----------



## cretebaby

T-MAN;1032229 said:


> Hey Mackman, I seen that rat on many non union plumbers sites here.
> The plumbers union hires mexicans from the temp day labor place to picket because there cheaper  They buss em in.
> No BS
> 
> Carpenters union here is in shambles now. Its all mexicans for the most part. Once they hit a 3rd 4th year apprenticeship the companys lays em off. We got companys here now bringing there own employees from out of state as well, instead of hiring from the hall.
> The trade unions have just about had it here. Sad to see guys pay in all there lives, and now there pensions are going bankrupt. In about 5 years theres gonna be one hell of a **** storm. Better hope O-Boy gots some money in the mattress stashed for there bailout.


Chicago carpenters union did the same thing here. They hired some "fellas" to picket a shop here, payed them minimum wage. Really make the union look stupid.


----------



## shooterm

Mackman;1032036 said:


> Hey Cuban just give up. These guys will never understand. Allot of these members are landscapers and what not and like there illegal Mexican help at 25/day. That's why I'm not getting involved you wont win with these guys.
> 
> We need a blow up Scab Rat for plowsite like we use on scab work sites.


Tell Unions figure out this way of conducting business is unacceptable, they'll lose out on a valuable pool of talent. Call me a rat all you want people see this.


----------



## Mick76

Bringing it to the top again because I'm bored and want to get Mackman going again....J/K


----------



## 2COR517

Mick76;1045320 said:


> Bringing it to the top again because I'm bored and want to get Mackman going again....J/K


I'm in!


----------



## Deershack

My union experience is that I worked for a railroad for 17 yrs. For two years I was the Union Rep in my office. The Union went on strike and after 2 days the President invoked the Taft-Hartly Act ordering the Union back to work. Our Union President hid out for 2 more days so that he could not be served with the order. I was forced to either obey the lawful order of the US Pres. or follow the dictate of the union and stay off the job. Obeying the Presidental order by crossing the picket line would have subjected me to a fine from the union and a hearing with possible loss of my job if my membership in the union was canceled.

No worker should have to make that choice. Not only did the Union Pres. put himself above the law to hurt the Railroad by keeping them shut down for two more days, the final settlement was almost identical to the final offer from the Road, making the strike unnecessary in the first place.

From that day on, I have not been a fan of unions or a member.


----------



## Deershack

PS Not only did I have to make the decision for myself but I also had to advise my membership on what they should do. There was heavy pressure from the National Union to stay away until the Union Pres. "ordered" us back to work. Not only did I not have a choice in belonging to the Union in the first place, membership was a condition of employment, but I had to choose between following the directions of the President of the United States or the Union President.


----------



## snowman55

mackman that is fing hilarious. you were with a union shop and they downsized. What does that tell you? I bet your boss would love to know the you refer to the company employing you as a "scab company". Wonder why it's good enough for you? Why you can't get into a Union shop? Maybe because the Union is making those shops unprofitable? You said it yourself and yet can't admit the reality.


----------



## Mackman

.............................


----------



## cubanb343

Unions are not allowed to tell any of their members to cross or not to cross a picket line. That's against the law- 

You guys doing landscaping and snowplowing (the most cut throat business around) should understand the concept of lowballers, and those hacks bringing down the prices for work. 

So Mackman getting downsized is due to the non-union competition paying low wages to their workers.

God forbid someone besides the owner of a company get a decent wage or benefits


----------



## cubanb343

Oh, and if I was in deershacks predicament, which sounds quite precarious at best, I'd tell the President to kiss my sweet A$$, especially if it was Nobama- even though it probably wasn't. LOL


----------



## 2005_Sierra

cubanb343;1045540 said:


> Unions are not allowed to tell any of their members to cross or not to cross a picket line. That's against the law-
> 
> You guys doing landscaping and snowplowing (the most cut throat business around) should understand the concept of lowballers, and those hacks bringing down the prices for work.
> 
> So Mackman getting downsized is due to the non-union competition paying low wages to their workers.
> 
> *God forbid someone besides the owner of a company get a decent wage or benefits*


are you serious? I doubt you are willing to give up your paycheck for the week to cover payroll, I doubt you are not collecting unemployment when you are laid off for the winter. And I'm almost positive you dont have all the stress of a company resting on your shoulders.


----------



## 2COR517

2005_Sierra;1045613 said:


> are you serious? I doubt you are willing to give up your paycheck for the week to cover payroll, I doubt you are not collecting unemployment when you are laid off for the winter. And I'm almost positive you dont have all the stress of a company resting on your shoulders.


Thank you.....


----------



## cubanb343

Hahaha I have all the stress I need everyday. I don't expect landscape guys to totally understand unions


----------



## 2005_Sierra

cubanb343;1045633 said:


> Hahaha I have all the stress I need everyday. I don't expect landscape guys to totally understand unions


I'm not a landscaper, my dad owns a redi-mix concrete company and I know all about the sacrifices he has made to keep things afloat :waving:


----------



## 2COR517

cubanb343;1045633 said:


> Hahaha I have all the stress I need everyday. I don't expect landscape guys to totally understand unions


Do you think they are incapable?


----------



## Matson Snow

cubanb343;1045633 said:


> Hahaha I have all the stress I need everyday. I don't expect landscape guys to totally understand unions


I understand Unions just fine....Come-on up to Detroit..The Birthplace of the Union and see how they have been taking care of the rank and file before you start spewing BullS#$t..I just love reading crap from guys that think they have a clue..But, they dont...The only thing unions are good for are collecting dues and protecting the Lazy..The teamster pension is Broke and the UAWs pension soon will be....BTW..Im a 20+ year Teamster and im ashamed to admit that......


----------



## elite1msmith

2005_Sierra;1045613 said:


> are you serious? I doubt you are willing to give up your paycheck for the week to cover payroll, I doubt you are not collecting unemployment when you are laid off for the winter. And I'm almost positive you dont have all the stress of a company resting on your shoulders.


i would agree 100% most people union or not, thinks the owner just makes tons and tons of money and does nothing more. i have held my own pay check, and done many things to stay afoat at times. Stress? i dont think there is anything more stress full in the world thatn having other people really depend on you. that would include making sure you have enough work to keep them working and enough cash in the bank for there checks. try knowing that you need to bring in XX,XXX per day or you will go out of business. you at 2am your phone rings with a worker that slipped on a salt spreader and busted his knee. i know i have stress on me, and its not healthy

as for the union, the only real two problems that i see with the union is, they demand more wadges, B, they have alot of red tape to fire persons. you can always call down to the union hall and tell them to send someone else, but there is still papper work side. i dont have the time of day to deal with my own personal life, let alone a "union rep" for anything.

as for the wadges, there are pletty of ways to work around that. if not you can hire different employees. there are ways around that federal law


----------



## Mackman

Cuban dont waste your time with these guys. Its not worth it. 

Plus there was alot of non-union trucking companys that downsized and closed shop altogether when fuel hit 5.00 a gallon. So since they were non-union who is to blame for that?? 

Every union company doesnt turn a profit LMAO what a joke.:laughing:


----------



## buckwheat_la

cubanb343;1045540 said:


> Unions are not allowed to tell any of their members to cross or not to cross a picket line. That's against the law-
> 
> You guys doing landscaping and snowplowing (the most cut throat business around) should understand the concept of lowballers, and those hacks bringing down the prices for work.
> 
> So Mackman getting downsized is due to the non-union competition paying low wages to their workers.
> 
> God forbid someone besides the owner of a company get a decent wage or benefits


WOW, Unions are not allowed to tell any of their members to cross or not cross a picket line........what dream are you in right now!!! I recently had a company tell me that they were going to have a strike, and that has a subcontracted company, that i could expect that if i showed up to do our regularly scheduled work, that they would stop me at the gates, and to expect loads of verbal abuse.


----------



## 2005_Sierra

Honestly Mack, we shouldn't be wasting our time discussing this with you, you are so brainwashed by the union it isn't even funny. 


Mackman;1045676 said:


> Cuban dont waste your time with these guys. Its not worth it.
> 
> Plus there was alot of non-union trucking companys that downsized and closed shop altogether when fuel hit 5.00 a gallon. So since they were non-union who is to blame for that??
> *
> Every union company doesnt turn a profit LMAO what a joke*.:laughing:


And by the way, my dad's company was union up until 2007 and they actually made MORE money being de-certified than they did as a union shop.


----------



## Mick76

:laughing::yow!:


----------



## forestfireguy

I just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading this debate...............I was a union member. The union was WORTHLESS. Prevailing wage work is a corrupt joke and I defy the average union member to face up to the daily challenges of being responsible for several other peoples payroll and therefore the welfare and health of those same peoples families. Unions drive prices up, quality of work suffers and the whole union system(one which started many years ago with good intentions) has fallen apart........... The original intention was a grand idea, but our society allowed the unions too much power, tell me a union loader operator or CDL drfiver is any better than one of my guys, I'll laugh at you, prove it to me and I'll pay him his union rate without all the BS dues, meetings and promises of nothing......


----------



## Matson Snow

forestfireguy;1045769 said:


> I just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading this debate...............I was a union member. The union was WORTHLESS. Prevailing wage work is a corrupt joke and I defy the average union member to face up to the daily challenges of being responsible for several other peoples payroll and therefore the welfare and health of those same peoples families. Unions drive prices up, quality of work suffers and the whole union system(one which started many years ago with good intentions) has fallen apart........... The original intention was a grand idea, but our society allowed the unions too much power, tell me a union loader operator or CDL drfiver is any better than one of my guys, I'll laugh at you, prove it to me and I'll pay him his union rate without all the BS dues, meetings and promises of nothing......


Well Said...Case Closed....


----------



## 2COR517

Matson Snow;1045777 said:


> Well Said...Case Closed...


Really? 

I thought there was more  left in this one.


----------



## Bajak

How is the waiting list working out for you Mackman?

I have a regular job again and six offers...None of them are Union...
Seems the union peers are still unemployed and on a waiting list.

Almost summer here.

If you want I'll get you some work..


----------



## towpro570

sell out to friend for $1 hire new employees buy back 6 months later for $2


----------



## cubanb343

If you are good you stay working. You won't hear any complaints from me... I do just finepayup


----------



## snowplowpro

I WOULD SELL THEM ALL MY STUFF AND THEN GO WORK FOR THEM THIS WAY I CAN GET PAID WHAT THEY GET PAID AND I WOULD HAVE NO HEADACHES LET SOMEONE ELSE DEAL WITH ,ALL THE PAPERWORK,, ALL THE COMPLAINTS ,ALL THE HEADACHES A BOSS GETS ,I WOULD LAUGH AFTER I SAW SOMEONE ELSE IN THAT POSITION ALL CAUSE THEY WENT UNION.
BUT THEY COULDNT PAY US ENOUGH WE HAVE TO MUCH EXPERIENCE.

SNOWPLOWING UNION THE TOWNS DO NOTHING NOW IF A LANDSACAPING COMPANY WENT UNION WE WOULD NEVER GET ANYWERE:laughing:


----------



## grandview

Can't believe you guys are still going at here!


----------



## snowplowpro

:laughing::laughing: its a good conversation post though:laughing:


----------



## Mick76

You started it Grandview!


----------



## grandview

My important threads just fade away and my throw away threads seem to stick around!


----------



## JDiepstra

I'd fire everyone.


----------



## 2COR517

grandview;1049583 said:


> My important threads just fade away and my throw away threads seem to stick around!


You had an important thread?


----------



## Bajak

2COR517;1050309 said:


> You had an important thread?


Hee, hee, hee,


----------



## grandview

2COR517;1050309 said:


> You had an important thread?


Yes I did, but it was deleted.


----------



## Bajak

grandview;1051627 said:


> Yes I did, but it was deleted.


Really? your kidding.:laughing:


----------



## Westhardt Corp.

That's what you get for thinking about YOU ESS EMM while making said thread...

>auto delete....poof!<

:laughing:

And FWIW, unions are not highly regarded around here right now, since the laborer's union *and* operator's union went on strike a few weeks ago and brought the entire construction industry to a halt. Not wise, me thinks...


----------



## Fourbycb

Let them become a Union then close or sell company and start up a new one under a different name and never hire any of the employee's from the previous Union comp and then throw that back in there faces laughing ha ha ha you had it good


----------



## 2COR517

Bajak;1051625 said:


> Hee, hee, hee,


LOL :laughing:


----------



## merrimacmill

Unions make me sick to my stomach. I know a union IBEW for Verizon. It makes me sick what she gets paid to retire. They pay her like 100's of thousands just to leave the company only to get a pension and full benefits for the rest of her natural life. I'd shoot myself before I paid anyone union anything. The unions are just there to protect the drunks that can't do their own jobs from getting fired. I don't think anything in the world makes me more angry than talking to one of these "union proud" people.


----------



## YardMedic

wow, I'm truly baffled at how those who have never been part of a union really have no idea what they are all about. Bring on the fire, folks... I don't defend any lazy slugs either union or civilian, but noone anywhere is exempt from termination.


----------



## cubanb343

merrimacmill;1053342 said:


> Unions make me sick to my stomach. I know a union IBEW for Verizon. It makes me sick what she gets paid to retire. They pay her like 100's of thousands just to leave the company only to get a pension and full benefits for the rest of her natural life. I'd shoot myself before I paid anyone union anything. The unions are just there to protect the drunks that can't do their own jobs from getting fired. I don't think anything in the world makes me more angry than talking to one of these "union proud" people.


Drunks who can't do their jobs? WOW

Before you start shooting, take a look around, you probably pay money towards union members more than you know. Your next truck might have to be a Toyota.


----------



## buckwheat_la

YardMedic;1053376 said:


> wow, I'm truly baffled at how those who have never been part of a union really have no idea what they are all about. Bring on the fire, folks... I don't defend any lazy slugs either union or civilian, but noone anywhere is exempt from termination.


i tell you what, that is exactly what the issue i have with unions, it is impossible to terminate someone, one of the teachers at a school a friend works at, has taken stress leave 3 years in a row, and when she is teaching, she is screaming at her grade one kids so bad that this year over half the parents of those kids filed a petition to have her fired, NOT only did she not get fired, but she well be teaching the same grade one class this year (even though there were many temparary contract layoffs, and many great teachers looking for contracts) A rumor is that the screaming was so bad one day that someone came off the street to the office to ask if everything was OK.


----------



## cubanb343

It's not impossible to terminate someone, I see it happen all the time. At least on the building and highway trades jobs. If you can't do your job, you're down the road!! That's a bunch of crap about that teacher keeping her job- She should've been gone!
Sounds like those parents have a war on their hands


----------



## ff610

YardMedic;1053376 said:


> wow, I'm truly baffled at how those who have never been part of a union really have no idea what they are all about. Bring on the fire, folks... I don't defend any lazy slugs either union or civilian, but noone anywhere is exempt from termination.


Well said! I think the problem is some people think that all unions are alike. Not in any way close to true! I have been a board member on my union for 4-5 years. We do not defend the lazy, drunk or any other nature of that kind! We defend the contract as it stands, and fight for those who have been mistreated. Most importantly, we look to better members well being and security of our families should something happen in the line of duty. Again, I look at certain unions as a problem, but not ALL of them. If it makes you sick to see someone proud of their profession you need to let it go! There are many people out there proud of their trade, union or not. Historically speaking union has made great strides for our economy, as well as hurt our economy. Either way, it is the way it is. Direct hatred towards those deserving if you must be hateful, but please understand every detail before you jump to conclusions. BTW, our trade is probably one of the lowest paid, and from my point of view we run a little different type of union than most of you probably think. Example: We don't/can't strike, nor would we ever want to!


----------



## redman6565

disappointed i missed this...a nice read though


----------



## 2COR517

redman6565;1058783 said:


> disappointed i missed this...a nice read though


So, yea or nay for unions?


----------



## snowplowpro

i say no i like my company with out i like to be my own boss tired of working for people and waiting to get paid when they say well im waiting for a check to come in or i didnt get paid from customers yet .


no union no worries


----------



## cretebaby

2COR517;1058863 said:


> So, yea or nay for unions?


My guess would be........nay.


----------



## redman6565

2COR517;1058863 said:


> So, yea or nay for unions?


nay...firm believer that unions have wore out their welcome, they demand too much now. the state labor laws are so tight and benefit the employee so much, it's a waste to have a union and whatever the state doesn't protect, the federal government will.


----------



## 05 superduty

snowplowpro;1049457 said:


> I WOULD SELL THEM ALL MY STUFF AND THEN GO WORK FOR THEM THIS WAY I CAN GET PAID WHAT THEY GET PAID AND I WOULD HAVE NO HEADACHES LET SOMEONE ELSE DEAL WITH ,ALL THE PAPERWORK,, ALL THE COMPLAINTS ,ALL THE HEADACHES A BOSS GETS ,I WOULD LAUGH AFTER I SAW SOMEONE ELSE IN THAT POSITION ALL CAUSE THEY WENT UNION.
> BUT THEY COULDNT PAY US ENOUGH WE HAVE TO MUCH EXPERIENCE.
> 
> SNOWPLOWING UNION THE TOWNS DO NOTHING NOW IF A LANDSACAPING COMPANY WENT UNION WE WOULD NEVER GET ANYWERE:laughing:


You dont plow and never have so what paperwork and headaches do you have?lol You used to work for the town and then you quit to work at auto handlers


----------



## padec21

YardMedic;1031481 said:


> Wow, the majority of folks have never been in a profession where unions fight for basic rights. I believe there's a gross misunderstanding of why unions exist. If I can concede that some unions behave irresponsibly, why can't many of you admit that what I say is often true too?


I totally agree.
I cant believe how many misinformed people are out there regarding unions. I am in the construction trade and a proud union member. Unions are the only thing keeping the middle class alive. Without them you would have illegals taking all the jobs for $8 and hour and sending the money home. If they survived the work week because without the unions you wouldnt have the safety requirements. I regularly work 10 hours + days. Sat. and Sun. There arent breaks every 2 hours thats just ridiculous. Also union members are better skilled at their jobs due to the on going education the unions provide to them. And where else can you still have medical coverage even when your laid off. Also many times my union goes to bat for non union members that are being mistreated byt the employers. (misclassifying employers as subs to avoid paying workmans comp).
Get informed people before making judgments.


----------



## 2005_Sierra

not this whole argument again, can we just let this thread die?


----------



## Mackman




----------



## dayexco

padec21;1070087 said:


> I totally agree.
> I cant believe how many misinformed people are out there regarding unions. I am in the construction trade and a proud union member. Unions are the only thing keeping the middle class alive. Without them you would have illegals taking all the jobs for $8 and hour and sending the money home. If they survived the work week because without the unions you wouldnt have the safety requirements. I regularly work 10 hours + days. Sat. and Sun. There arent breaks every 2 hours thats just ridiculous. Also union members are better skilled at their jobs due to the on going education the unions provide to them. And where else can you still have medical coverage even when your laid off. Also many times my union goes to bat for non union members that are being mistreated byt the employers. (misclassifying employers as subs to avoid paying workmans comp).
> Get informed people before making judgments.


i firmly agree with the idea that a group of people should be able to band together to negotiate better wages/benefits....and that's where it ends...if we can't agree, you as a union member should not have the capability of closing my place of business down. let's say that you train all the "unknowing"....about the safety/health issues, they get it, and conform to the health and safety standards...and they still agree to work for 50% less than you will, will you get mad at me for hiring them? in my local community, there are basically 2 unions...the teacher's union, and the govt. employees union...drive thru the parking lot of their employment...for the most part, you'll see vehicles made in japan, or korea.....these same people, will drive 100 miles to save $100 on a car deal, tv/furniture purchase...forget the local business people that help pay their wages thru taxes..are parked in the first row at wallyworld buying chinese trinkets, vs. going down to the local owner/operated stores...locally anyway, it's gimme, now how can we work together.


----------



## padec21

dayexco;1070249 said:


> i firmly agree with the idea that a group of people should be able to band together to negotiate better wages/benefits....and that's where it ends...if we can't agree, you as a union member should not have the capability of closing my place of business down. let's say that you train all the "unknowing"....about the safety/health issues, they get it, and conform to the health and safety standards...and they still agree to work for 50% less than you will, will you get mad at me for hiring them? in my local community, there are basically 2 unions...the teacher's union, and the govt. employees union...drive thru the parking lot of their employment...for the most part, you'll see vehicles made in japan, or korea.....these same people, will drive 100 miles to save $100 on a car deal, tv/furniture purchase...forget the local business people that help pay their wages thru taxes..are parked in the first row at wallyworld buying chinese trinkets, vs. going down to the local owner/operated stores...locally anyway, it's gimme, now how can we work together.


how can a union close you down if you are obeying all the labor laws? if the majority of your employees vote to join a union you cant stop them. you could close your business but that would be foolish. if your treating your employees right, paying a decent wage so they can make an honest living, paying over time, workmans comp, etc etc. Then your employees have no reason to join a union.
and by the way I still go to the locally owend Ace hardware before I go to any big box store. I and still choose to business with the little guys in my town even if they are more expensive. Including buying my last 4 cars from the local FORD dealership down the street from me.


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## 2COR517

padec21;1070087 said:


> I totally agree.
> I cant believe how many misinformed people are out there regarding unions. I am in the construction trade and a proud union member. Unions are the only thing keeping the middle class alive. Without them you would have illegals taking all the jobs for $8 and hour and sending the money home. If they survived the work week because without the unions you wouldnt have the safety requirements. I regularly work 10 hours + days. Sat. and Sun. There arent breaks every 2 hours thats just ridiculous. Also union members are better skilled at their jobs due to the on going education the unions provide to them. And where else can you still have medical coverage even when your laid off. Also many times my union goes to bat for non union members that are being mistreated byt the employers. (misclassifying employers as subs to avoid paying workmans comp).
> Get informed people before making judgments.


Somebody has been drinking the Kool-Aid......



padec21;1070312 said:


> *how can a union close you down*.....


Ask the guys at the GM plant in Indiana that recently closed.......


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## john mc

wow I am a 15 year local 4 member up here in boston. yea things are tough but times like this you have to bend the rules. I have been with the same employer for 12 years.I do the the extra little things that help him out .I LOVE the union benefits.If it wasn't for the union I would not be getting the rate anywhere. Am i worth it YES my employer would need 3 guys to replace me.that is why i am still working.


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## Matson Snow

john mc;1070404 said:


> wow I am a 15 year local 4 member up here in boston. yea things are tough but times like this you have to bend the rules. I have been with the same employer for 12 years.I do the the extra little things that help him out .I LOVE the union benefits.If it wasn't for the union I would not be getting the rate anywhere. Am i worth it YES *my employer would need 3 guys to replace me.that is why i am still working.*




Kinda full of ourself aren't we.....One Monkey don't stop the show..remember that...Im officially on Strike from this thread..Just after i take one of my 6 breaks...


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## padec21

2COR517;1070383 said:


> Somebody has been drinking the Kool-Aid......
> 
> Ask the guys at the GM plant in Indiana that recently closed.......


Again obey the labor laws and follow the contract you signed and you have no worries. Really not rocket science people.


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## ADMSWELDING

BTW, Since none of you are smart enough to relize this AMERICA IS A "UNION".If you don,t love this country go move to Russia.:laughing:


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## Matson Snow

ADMSWELDING;1070652 said:


> BTW, *Since none of you are smart enough *to relize this AMERICA IS A "UNION".If you don,t love this country go move to Russia.:laughing:


Easy there big fella...Plenty of smart people on here...So, what you are saying if you NOT in a Union... You hate this country and should move to Russia....


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## 2COR517

ADMSWELDING;1070652 said:


> BTW, Since none of you are smart enough to relize this AMERICA IS A "UNION".If you don,t love this country go move to Russia.:laughing:


Um, no. Assuming the "People" are in the Union, and the Gov't is the "Employer"


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## ADMSWELDING

2COR517;1070782 said:


> Um, no. Assuming the "People" are in the Union, and the Gov't is the "Employer"


Exactly you work for the goverment.Unless your one of those shady/below the radar companys that don,t pay there taxes.


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