# Sump pump in plastic barrels for rock salt brine?



## vancouver_snowman (Oct 7, 2018)

Hey guys, new to the snow removal business- My dad has been doing landscaping for a while. I just got a few commercial contracts. Mostly small parking lots, small malls and gas stations.

Looking to get into the liquids.

Just wondering if the following set up is possible for making brine?

Would i have to dissolve the salt in the water as much as possible by mixing it or using hot water or could the sump pump handle the salt?

If anyone could help me out im only 15 years old, still learning this stuff. Thanks guys.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Good for you, no one wants to work these days so it’s good you’ve got the motivation.

Couple questions, you said you had a couple commercial contracts but you’re 15? Are you doing them with a tractor or a mower or something?


----------



## vancouver_snowman (Oct 7, 2018)

Yeah my dad has a f250 with a v plow, i help him get jobs by calling companies, doing sales etc. When we do a job hes on the truck and im shoveling snow on sidewalks/steps and placing salt.


----------



## vancouver_snowman (Oct 7, 2018)

thanks for replying, hard to find some help sometimes!


----------



## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Go to YouTube there is a ton of brine maker stuff


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Whatever you do...don't boil it.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

@Kubota 8540

If anyone can help with home made brine systems... he is your guy.

And good for you being a young guy wanted to do something other than your Nintendo.


----------



## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

vancouver_snowman said:


> View attachment 184646
> Hey guys, new to the snow removal business- My dad has been doing landscaping for a while. I just got a few commercial contracts. Mostly small parking lots, small malls and gas stations.
> 
> Looking to get into the liquids.
> ...


Making salt brine can be as simple as putting salt in a bucket and stirring it until the salt dissolves. Obviously that would be a lot of effort for a small result. Using a small pump in place of stirring is a lot easier and quicker. The trick to using a sump pump is keeping the salt granules from being sucked into the pump. It is easier with a 2 container type set up, you can keep the salt granules away from the pump and just use the water flow to stir and dissolve the salt. Using your drawing above I would remove the pump from your 2nd barrel and connect a drain from barrel 2 to barrel 1 that would contain your pump. Make sure when tieing your barrels together the hose/pipe is at least 2-3 times larger than the discharge from your pump, gravity is a little slower than the pump.


----------



## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Salt brine absolutely trashes a sump pump, if you keep in submerged in clear water after you remove the brine, the pump will last longer.


----------



## vancouver_snowman (Oct 7, 2018)

hey fellas thanks so much, kubota thanks for your help. learning a lot from your youtube videos.

so i think i got a better idea of my setup. i have all the supplies already- so i thought id try something out with whatevr i have available.

so is it fine that i have barrel 1 raised maybe about a foot higher than barrel 2. and is the placement of the tie-in fine? i was thinking 6 inch pvc could be better. thanks so much again!


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

vancouver_snowman said:


> View attachment 184675
> hey fellas thanks so much, kubota thanks for your help. learning a lot from your youtube videos.
> 
> so i think i got a better idea of my setup. i have all the supplies already- so i thought id try something out with whatevr i have available.
> ...


It has been quite a few years since I was in trade school, but if I recall correct, a 1.5" discharge pump with that small of an amount of head will out pump what can flow threw a 4" pipe with that small amount of head on it.

I can confirm better when I am at the office and have a flow calculator.


----------



## vancouver_snowman (Oct 7, 2018)

do you think i should have 2 pipes connecting the barrels


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Philbilly2 said:


> It has been quite a few years since I was in trade school, but if I recall correct, a 1.5" discharge pump with that small of an amount of head will out pump what can flow threw a 4" pipe with that small amount of head on it.
> 
> I can confirm better when I am at the office and have a flow calculator.


Depending on the outlet pressure, do you think he could put a gate valve on and just gate it back?
I figure about .5 psi per foot of head,


----------



## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

I would say let the pump be full flow and just add more outlets to gravity flow to barrel 2


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Depending on the outlet pressure, do you think he could put a gate valve on and just gate it back?
> I figure about .5 psi per foot of head,


Head is tough on sump pumps. I also think more flow threw pipes would be better than restricting the discharge of a sump pump.


----------



## Wacker57 (Jan 2, 2018)

Question about calcium chloride. 

Why do most of you who use it recommend mixing it at 32%...freeze point -17°F 
The chart From “Oxy.com” says at 29.6% gives you a freeze point of -60°F 

Am I missing something ?


----------



## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Wacker57 said:


> Question about calcium chloride.
> 
> Why do most of you who use it recommend mixing it at 32%...freeze point -17°F
> The chart From "Oxy.com" says at 29.6% gives you a freeze point of -60°F
> ...


How many times do you need the liquid to not freeze at -60F? No need to pay for something you're not going to need or use.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Wacker57 said:


> Question about calcium chloride.
> 
> Why do most of you who use it recommend mixing it at 32%...freeze point -17°F
> The chart From "Oxy.com" says at 29.6% gives you a freeze point of -60°F
> ...


Phase curves as well as who cares if it's good to -60°.


----------



## Wacker57 (Jan 2, 2018)

The thing is, the higher percentage is you’re using more calcium chloride for a Higher freeze point. You would think you would want the lower percentage since your cost would be less. That’s what I don’t understand


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I don't remember the exact details, but basically it's going to dilute faster and refreeze faster. 

And how much is 3% really going to add to the costA?


----------



## Wacker57 (Jan 2, 2018)

Then why not mix it at 24% which I’ll give you a -20°F freeze point. At that point the $$$ start to add up


----------



## Wacker57 (Jan 2, 2018)

Maybe I should put in more information. VSI says they mix they are Brine Consecrated to 28.3%. Then they mix as temperatures drop a 10 to 30% ratio of 32% calcium chloride. Why aren’t they using the rated lowest freeze point percentage?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Wacker57 said:


> Then why not mix it at 24% which I'll give you a -20°F freeze point. At that point the $$$ start to add up


It's been answered. Find a supplier and ask them, I don't remember the details well enough to explain it thoroughly other than IT WILL DILUTE FASTER AND THEN REFREEZE FASTER.


----------



## Wacker57 (Jan 2, 2018)

Then why not mix it at 34% which gives you a freeze point of 10°F so if it dilutes by 10% when you spray it it’ll bring you real close to that -60°F freeze point


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Nevermind...educate yourself on phase curves\diagrams.


----------



## Wacker57 (Jan 2, 2018)

OK how about this for a scenario. I have a quarter inch of white fluffy snow laying on pavement that’s 10°F. If I am spraying single (8 feet wide) boom at 80gpa approximately how much is my liquid getting diluted as it melts the snow.


----------



## Wacker57 (Jan 2, 2018)

I’m trying to do the math here. A quarter inch of white fluffy snow per acre would be approximately 2/100 (.02) of an inch of rain. That would equal to approximately 543 gallons per acre. If I am spraying at 80 gallons per acre means once all is melted it would measure about 5% solution which drastically raises the freezing point to approximately 20°F.
To round things I used 1 inch of rain equals 1 foot of snow. I know temperature has a big affect on that ratio but I’m trying to keep it kind of simple.


----------



## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

as i understand it the water should come from the bottom and flow thru the salt for better disolving


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Please do a search, this thread is setting brine making back a hundred years! I'm kicking myself for wandering onto this site so early in season :hammerhead:


----------

