# Large scale commercial estimating



## SaltDogg33 (Dec 12, 2020)

Wondering if I could get any tips on large scale commercial plowing/salting estimating of a commercial shopping plaza which includes large parking areas, sidewalks throughout front facing buildings, rear entryway/delivery areas surrounding entire building plaza. Overall general size of property Is approximately 5 acres, relatively flat, surface (blacktop) in good condition. Looking at a plow threshold of 2 “ minimum.
I routinely do small to medium size commercial lots, but this would be my largest account. I am looking at leasing loader and some other equipment. Looking at 1 loader operator, 2-3 plow trucks and 2 people to do sidewalks, etc...if you have lessons learned on jobs like this, I would appreciate any guidance/insight.
Thank You


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## NBRam1500 (Nov 22, 2019)

First thing to ask yourself. Why are they looking for someone new? 

Only you know your expenses, that same site in my area could be 5x or half of your cost.


Figure out how many hours it will take you each push.
Figure out what you need an hour to make money.
Gas , time, labourer, maintenance, insurance. Average storms per year. Lots of sites have historical data. 

Are you providing seasonal contract or per push . 
Is this plaza have stores open 24/7 if so these sites suck there will always be cars in your way. 

Distance to push the snow, raised islands ? 
Try and get an arial picture of the site be much easier .

Not sure this helps any but alot of factors go into estimating these types of sites .


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## SaltDogg33 (Dec 12, 2020)

Thank you very much, you’ve provided some helpful information. I appreciate it.
Take Care


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## maxwell1027 (Feb 8, 2014)

Will they allow you to store salt on site?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1 loader and 2-3 trucks?

What are they going to do after they're done in an hour?


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## SaltDogg33 (Dec 12, 2020)

We have other Commercial customers and would use the other trucks to surge when necessary. I believe the loader is necessary for salt loading, etc..
Thank You


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## mnlawns (Sep 19, 2018)

SaltDogg33 said:


> We have other Commercial customers and would use the other trucks to surge when necessary. I believe the loader is necessary for salt loading, etc..
> Thank You


wheel loader or skid loader? if its a fairly open 5 acres one skid loader with 10ft kage or similar should be able to do that in about 3-4hours.

wheel loader with 14ft pusher in about 2.5hrs


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

2.5 hours seems pretty long for a loader and pusher.


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## mnlawns (Sep 19, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> 2.5 hours seems pretty long for a loader and pusher.


probably but sometimes people are stupid and cant plow.


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## Treeboy (Nov 8, 2017)

Maybe 2 skids with 10-12' box plows max. Your not plowing 5 acres your plowing driving lanes and where people "may" park. They probably dont want your equipment going down half the lanes at any one time. A pass every 30min and do the rest when they close. When it really snows there will b less people and expectation you will also b cleaner than the roads they just traveled on. People cant drive past a big loader box. But your gonna have to b there the whole time so there is not going to b much left when storms stop. Dont know about walks, or if you are somewhere they get exponential snow fall.


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## SaltDogg33 (Dec 12, 2020)

Treeboy said:


> Maybe 2 skids with 10-12' box plows max. Your not plowing 5 acres your plowing driving lanes and where people "may" park. They probably dont want your equipment going down half the lanes at any one time. A pass every 30min and do the rest when they close. When it really snows there will b less people and expectation you will also b cleaner than the roads they just traveled on. People cant drive past a big loader box. But your gonna have to b there the whole time so there is not going to b much left when storms stop. Dont know about walks, or if you are somewhere they get exponential snow fall.


Thank you very much! I appreciate your insight.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Treeboy said:


> Maybe 2 skids with 10-12' box plows max. Your not plowing 5 acres your plowing driving lanes and where people "may" park.


Huh?



Treeboy said:


> They probably dont want your equipment going down half the lanes at any one time.


Double huh???



Treeboy said:


> A pass every 30min and do the rest when they close.


What if it takes a half hour to do each pass? What if it takes an hour?



Treeboy said:


> People cant drive past a big loader box.


Depends..you really think a 14' box is that much wider than a 12' box?

What about visibility? Visibility in a skidsteer sucks, add in all that traffic and it's really going to suck. Loader has much better visibility.

Or what about when there is a pusher full of snow and the operator has to stop for someone walking/pulling into a space/backing out of a space. A loader will start right back up but skidsteers work on momentum.



Treeboy said:


> But your gonna have to b there the whole time so there is not going to b much left when storms stop.


There isn't?


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

SaltDogg33 said:


> Overall general size of property Is approximately 5 acres, relatively flat, surface (blacktop) in good condition. Looking at a plow threshold of 2 " minimum. I am looking at leasing loader and some other equipment. Looking at 1 loader operator, 2-3 plow trucks and 2 people to do sidewalks, etc...


What's the plan on dealing with a 1"-1.9" snowfall that you can't salt away?

Leasing a loader with 2-3 plow trucks to service a 5 acre site?!?!

And what does "overall general size of property is approximately 5 acres" mean? What is the square footage of the parking lot? And you don't guess at it...you measure it. Same goes with the sidewalks, what is the square footage of those?

Not sure why one would consider storing salt on site when this is only a 2-3 ton drop.

Is this an opportunity for next year? You have to ask why they are making a change, this winter is only half over right now.

This is not a large scale property. I have to question whether you have any snow and ice management experience at all based on your questions.


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## Treeboy (Nov 8, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Huh?
> 
> Double huh???
> 
> ...


Not where i live. More than 2 skids will just b wasting money. And i added that idk if hes somewhere theres exceptional snowfall. We get 30" a year. Here people are doing lots bigger than that with 1 loader or backhoe.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

had to look around to see where opinion could most matter today!
got people?
ones you trust?
what are they offering in the contract will the terms cover cost of operation, insurance? if the job will pay for your growth and you have a plan do it, I think the op said they are doing small and medium size property now this should give you a strong clue as to cost.
the snow business seems pretty straight forward it is on the ground put it over there, but all the terms and conditions around it that is what make it really fun.
hope it works out let us know if you get it.
back in the machine now, keep yer blade down.


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## Calcon (Jul 31, 2012)

SaltDogg33 said:


> Wondering if I could get any tips on large scale commercial plowing/salting estimating of a commercial shopping plaza which includes large parking areas, sidewalks throughout front facing buildings, rear entryway/delivery areas surrounding entire building plaza. Overall general size of property Is approximately 5 acres, relatively flat, surface (blacktop) in good condition. Looking at a plow threshold of 2 " minimum.
> I routinely do small to medium size commercial lots, but this would be my largest account. I am looking at leasing loader and some other equipment. Looking at 1 loader operator, 2-3 plow trucks and 2 people to do sidewalks, etc...if you have lessons learned on jobs like this, I would appreciate any guidance/insight.
> Thank You


If you have medium sized commercial sites now do you have a loader for them? Why not take the commercial sites you have now that you shovel and plow and see what your per square foot rate is today for plowing and shoveling. That might get you closer to a bid price.

But if you don't use a loader today to plow anything, your numbers will be to high to use on this lot is my guess. Once you put more productive equipment on a job, it changes the cost to do the same work that might have taken 3 or 4 trucks to do at what ever hourly rate your area gets and replaces it with what ever a loader is getting per hour.

So the price goes down for the guy that has 2 or 3 loaders with Metal Pless plows on the front of his 30K lbs loaders. He might be able to whip that 5 acres out in half the time you can with 1 loader and 3 trucks.

I had a 9ac lot that I plowed and thought I could do it with one 22K lb loader and bucket and 5 plow trucks. Was I wrong. I ended up needing 2 loaders and one grader with 3 plow trucks. Lucky we didn't have to mess with walk ways. If I had it to do again I would have 2 loaders and 2 tractors with Metal Pless plows and maybe 1 or 2 trucks.

You might need to pass on this 5 ac lot unless you have the capital to step up and buy 2 loaders or get a 2 X 115HP+ tractors John Deere 6R or Kubota M6 tractors and Metal Pless or similar plows. Might buy a couple side walk machines as well.

Let us know what you decide please.

Chris


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