# Brand new to the plowing business! looking for basic estimate / bidding sugesstions



## plowgalmt (Oct 25, 2017)

Hi there,
I am brand new to the snow plowing industry and I am looking for advise on basic estimating/ bidding procedures.
What has worked for you and what hasn't?
Thank you in advance for your help!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Are you just now trying to get contracts? If so you're a bit late. Might want to look into subcontracting this year, that way you can learn a little about the busiess and learn how long things take, and what the hours are like.

Advice on bidding, I guess just know operating costs. Are you just getting into the bidding side, or are you new to plowing all together? If you've never plowed, I would definitely look into becoming a subcontractor.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

plowgalmt said:


> Hi there,
> I am brand new to the snow plowing industry and I am looking for advise on basic estimating/ bidding procedures.
> What has worked for you and what hasn't?
> Thank you in advance for your help!


Edit: Nevermind


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> Edit: Nevermind


Well now I'm curious


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

plowgalmt said:


> Hi there,
> I am brand new to the snow plowing industry and I am looking for advise on basic estimating/ bidding procedures.
> What has worked for you and what hasn't?
> Thank you in advance for your help!


You could always just throw a number oot and see if they bite. It may have worked for a guy in Jersey.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

plowgalmt said:


> Hi there,
> I am brand new to the snow plowing industry and I am looking for advise on basic estimating/ bidding procedures.
> What has worked for you and what hasn't?
> Thank you in advance for your help!


Educate yourself....SIMA-ASCA is a good place to start...This is a business...Treat it as such...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> Well now I'm curious


I just deleted my smart *** post before MJD did and sent me a PM asking WHY would you post that????

As Mark informed me last night, PWI (posting while intoxicated) is not always a good thing.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> I just deleted my smart *** post before MJD did and sent me a PM asking WHY would you post that????
> 
> As Mark informed me last night, PWI (posting while intoxicated) is not always a good thing.


LMAO


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> I just deleted my smart *** post before MJD did and sent me a PM asking WHY would you post that????
> 
> As Mark informed me last night, PWI (posting while intoxicated) is not always a good thing.


Haven't you already learned this from Evil-Twin?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> I just deleted my smart *** post before MJD did and sent me a PM asking WHY would you post that????
> 
> As Mark informed me last night, PWI (posting while intoxicated) is not always a good thing.


That gave me a good laugh. Time for a beer.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

plowgalmt said:


> Hi there,
> I am brand new to the snow plowing industry and I am looking for advise on basic estimating/ bidding procedures.
> What has worked for you and what hasn't?
> Thank you in advance for your help!


 This is a pretty broad question/request, which has opened the door for Tomfoolery from a few that are filterless..... There has been a few constructive post and you should think aboot what was said 
More details/info are needed to get :
1. Location is needed, market areas and expectations vary from area to area.
2. Type of accounts you're going after, Commercial ( what type/size), Residential.
3. Type of equipment you intend to use, Pickups and type of plow, Skid Steer, Loader, Ag Tractor with plow/blower combo, ATV/UTV, Shovel or walk behind snow blower.
Also most guys have either been born into the industry or have worked for others before going oot on their own and only a few got into it with no background. The guys that had no background in the industry typically learn the hard way and most of them have a huge failure rate.
If you going to ask for advice and mentoring you need to listen to what you're being told. The sooner you understand that the better oof you'll be.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

BUFF said:


> This is a pretty broad question/request, which has opened the door for Tomfoolery from a few that are filterless..... There has been a few constructive post and you should think aboot what was said
> More details/info are needed to get :
> 1. Location is needed, market areas and expectations vary from area to area.
> 2. Type of accounts you're going after, Commercial ( what type/size), Residential.
> ...


You very elegantly worded my post that I deleted... Thumbs Up


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> You very elegantly worded my post that I deleted... Thumbs Up


I can be a proficient wordsmith at times......... It's something I'm struggling with and really need to stop it....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

BUFF said:


> I can be a proficient wordsmith at times......... It's something I'm struggling with and really need to stop it....


Funny part was last night I also called oomkes a wordsmith last night... he and I both agree that wordsmith is just short hand for "full of it"


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> Funny part was last night I also called oomkes a wordsmith last night... he and I both agree that wordsmith is just short hand for "full of it"


Wordsmith..... People skills......... it's all the same ef you give either any thought. I deal with all kinds a people with all kinds of personality's because of work and found the best way to communicate with is by wordsmithing in emails or using honed people skills when having a FTF meeting.
But enough of that...... lets get back on topic fella....Thumbs Up


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

BUFF said:


> Wordsmith..... People skills......... it's all the same ef you give either any thought. I deal with all kinds a people with all kinds of personality's because of work and found the best way to communicate with is by wordsmithing in emails or using honed people skills when having a FTF meeting.
> But enough of that...... lets get back on topic fella....Thumbs Up


Lol... you truly are a wordsmith.... :laugh:


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## Unraveller (Jan 28, 2014)

plowgalmt said:


> Hi there,
> I am brand new to the snow plowing industry and I am looking for advise on basic estimating/ bidding procedures.
> What has worked for you and what hasn't?
> Thank you in advance for your help!


What's your capital situation?


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

plowgalmt said:


> Hi there,
> I am brand new to the snow plowing industry and I am looking for advise on basic estimating/ bidding procedures.
> What has worked for you and what hasn't?
> Thank you in advance for your help!


Basic is figure out your expensives and come up with a hourly figure. 
That number can range from say $75 and hour up to $175 hour.
Even it out and say you need to make $100 an hour to pay expensives and make a profit.

Rough number for commericial is 1 hour per acre for plowing say a 2-3 inch storm.
So if your bidding on say a 2 acre lot your base price would be $200 dollars for the first 2-3 inches

Residentials are a whole other story.

Good site to measure lots: http://www.findlotsize.com


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Lol... you truly are a wordsmith.... :laugh:


And there goes his ego...more clearance lights on the welding helmutt.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> This is a pretty broad question/request, which has opened the door for Tomfoolery from a few that are filterless..... There has been a few constructive post and you should think aboot what was said
> More details/info are needed to get :
> 1. Location is needed, market areas and expectations vary from area to area.
> 2. Type of accounts you're going after, Commercial ( what type/size), Residential.
> ...


As mulch as it pains me to say it...this is where you need to start OP.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> As mulch as it pains me to say it...this is where you need to start OP.


Inducing pain on others is another strong suit of mine.....


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## Arrowbrook99 (Oct 22, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You could always just throw a number oot and see if they bite. It may have worked for a guy in Jersey.


Lol. Too funny. That guy is amusing.


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## Rooster08 (Oct 18, 2017)

My thing is this, we are all out here doing the same thing, fighting the same fight (snow/lawn), so after saying that, I feel like when there are new guys, we were all there at one point in time, people come into haha mode, your the new guy blah blah, but honestly, like the guys were saying, you may want to sub-contract if your new to the whole plowing thing, if you've been doing it and have experience plowing, but new to the business part, by all means like Mark said, throw a number out there. For instance, if it is a restnt, make them a deal ( like I did this summer), ill plow your parking lot for dinner, say $50 a push (or in my case it was a cutting), for $50 worth of a dinner, or a lunch. I have fed my family quite a few times with good food, fed my friends a time or two, but I also took advantage of it, and have done a few business proposals, and deals with this deal also... keep in mind, your making everyone happy, including yourself! I have a few accounts that I do this with, because you need somewhere rather than an office to work in ( really want to have meetings in your barn/shed/garage? I don't, and don't even think abut walking into my office, because the dogs will lick you and bark, and you'll probably step in duck or chicken poop on the way in. I guess my mind went other places with this, but I guess what I'm trying to say is, do what you have to do, to build your name. Business aside, your name is what your putting out there, no matter if its ABC INC. this year, in 5 years you may want to be XYZ company (whether by choice or not).... YOUR name is still the same. It wont change, well we know what I'm saying, LOL. anyways, don't ruin it, be honest, talk to people. The worse thing anyone will ever tell you is "NO". Get used to it, you will hear NO more than YES in your future, just happens. But you also need to know how to make deals. or better said, how to deal with people, if they want 50, and you want 60, figure out how to get 60, or 55.. figure them out, remember, this is for YOU and YOURS. Nobody else.. Go slow, then after you start to learn stuff, then try and figure out if your ready or not to go forward. I guess I'm saying all this because I was once in your boots, wondering how much to charge people to do things. Then I had someone break it down like Mark did, and like I said too, sell yourself, your job, your work. Throw yourself out there. Throw a number out there, that will make you money. If they don't bite, or have a number of their own, then figure out what's good. You can always tell them NO too. I know its always good to hear from the PROFESSIONALS who have done this before. Just also remember that they are not your neighbors, or a local establishment. They're not the people that put food on your table, pay your bills. They're not worried if you make it or fail, or get that account (honestly neither am I, but I am cheering for you though). But I do hope you succeed though and that's why I am saying it like this, PRAMOTE YOU!!!!! Good Luck in your adventures of life..... Rich


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

BUFF said:


> This is a pretty broad question/request, which has opened the door for Tomfoolery from a few that are filterless..... There has been a few constructive post and you should think aboot what was said
> More details/info are needed to get :
> 1. Location is needed, market areas and expectations vary from area to area.
> 2. Type of accounts you're going after, Commercial ( what type/size), Residential.
> ...


I agree with your post except for this one part:

Also most guys have either been born into the industry or have worked for others before going oot on their own and only a few got into it with no background. 
The guys that had no background in the industry typically learn the hard way and most of them have a huge failure rate.

I had no background, didn't work for anyone and decided to do this in 2006. 
Bought a truck and been going strong every since.

I know a few other guys that did the same thing and they are doing pretty good and it has been several years.

I made a few mistakes along the way but learned from them, wish I had known about this site back then and I wouldn't have made as many learning from the veterans of plowing but hey even making mistakes is a good learning experience.

At least the op is asking questions and I'm sure reading quite a few posts on here and gaining knowledge, hopefully if he is smart.

Now let it snow snow snow but not till the middle of December


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Rooster08 said:


> My thing is this, we are all out here doing the same thing, fighting the same fight (snow/lawn), so after saying that, I feel like when there are new guys, we were all there at one point in time, people come into haha mode, your the new guy blah blah, but honestly, like the guys were saying, you may want to sub-contract if your new to the whole plowing thing, if you've been doing it and have experience plowing, but new to the business part, by all means like Mark said, throw a number out there. For instance, if it is a restnt, make them a deal ( like I did this summer), ill plow your parking lot for dinner, say $50 a push (or in my case it was a cutting), for $50 worth of a dinner, or a lunch. I have fed my family quite a few times with good food, fed my friends a time or two, but I also took advantage of it, and have done a few business proposals, and deals with this deal also... keep in mind, your making everyone happy, including yourself! I have a few accounts that I do this with, because you need somewhere rather than an office to work in ( really want to have meetings in your barn/shed/garage? I don't, and don't even think abut walking into my office, because the dogs will lick you and bark, and you'll probably step in duck or chicken poop on the way in. I guess my mind went other places with this, but I guess what I'm trying to say is, do what you have to do, to build your name. Business aside, your name is what your putting out there, no matter if its ABC INC. this year, in 5 years you may want to be XYZ company (whether by choice or not).... YOUR name is still the same. It wont change, well we know what I'm saying, LOL. anyways, don't ruin it, be honest, talk to people. The worse thing anyone will ever tell you is "NO". Get used to it, you will hear NO more than YES in your future, just happens. But you also need to know how to make deals. or better said, how to deal with people, if they want 50, and you want 60, figure out how to get 60, or 55.. figure them out, remember, this is for YOU and YOURS. Nobody else.. Go slow, then after you start to learn stuff, then try and figure out if your ready or not to go forward. I guess I'm saying all this because I was once in your boots, wondering how much to charge people to do things. Then I had someone break it down like Mark did, and like I said too, sell yourself, your job, your work. Throw yourself out there. Throw a number out there, that will make you money. If they don't bite, or have a number of their own, then figure out what's good. You can always tell them NO too. I know its always good to hear from the PROFESSIONALS who have done this before. Just also remember that they are not your neighbors, or a local establishment. They're not the people that put food on your table, pay your bills. They're not worried if you make it or fail, or get that account (honestly neither am I, but I am cheering for you though). But I do hope you succeed though and that's why I am saying it like this, PRAMOTE YOU!!!!! Good Luck in your adventures of life..... Rich


If you are plowing for a free dinner, its not a business. If you are just throwing numbers around to see if someone will bite, its not a business. This is horrible advice.

The snow and ice management industry has been destroyed by this type of thinking. We PROFESSIONALS are trying to build the industry back. You have to know your numbers to give a real proposal. You learn your numbers by, subbing, or driving for another company. At least sit down and add up all your operating costs plus what you need to pay yourself, plus a profit and then do the math based on how many events you get per year to figure a basic number.

The people who follow this advice are the ones taking food off our tables. Because guys who just do it for beer money, or just throw out random numbers only last one season then go broke. The professionals are left to deal with customers who have been educated to expect pricing and service levels provided by unprofessional people who have no business doing this.

So OP, please do not take this advice. Please learn the industry and make competent proposals so that you can afford to provide competent service, and move the industry forward, not backward.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

ktfbgb said:


> If you are plowing for a free dinner, its not a business. If you are just throwing numbers around to see if someone will bite, its not a business. This is horrible advice.
> 
> The snow and ice management industry has been destroyed by this type of thinking. We PROFESSIONALS are trying to build the industry back. You have to know your numbers to give a real proposal. You learn your numbers by, subbing, or driving for another company. At least sit down and add up all your operating costs plus what you need to pay yourself, plus a profit and then do the math based on how many events you get per year to figure a basic number.
> 
> ...


110% listen to him his advice is sound.

I had a pizza place once offer that, food for plowing, turned them down, 
a bar wanted to pay me in booze -that was tempting I have to say - but again turned them down.

You do not want a reputation for working for food, booze, etc... then what happens is word gets around and everyone well want to pay you as little money as possible and give you whatever for the balance.

Now if your single and there is strip club that wants to do that, no never mind, cash but a strip club, okay I'm torn on this one


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Marks comment was completely sarcastic, and was referring to a completely different thread on here as a joke.

How do you pay your bills or payroll by trading work for food? And the better question, who charges $50 to plow? You should consider a minimum, no matter how small.

Rooster, welcome to PS. Hopefully our comments don't scare you off. Some off your advice was good, I just disagree with some key parts. Ktfb is right, when you work for food or barter in any way, it gives customers a false sense that they can always do that, even after the guy working for free goes out of business.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

MSsnowplowing said:


> I agree with your post except for this one part:
> 
> Also most guys have either been born into the industry or have worked for others before going oot on their own and only a few got into it with no background.
> The guys that had no background in the industry typically learn the hard way and most of them have a huge failure rate.
> ...


There are a few and guess you're one of the special ones that didn't have a tough go at it when you started. I'm not trying to paint a gloomy picture and trying to be realistic in my statement. 
Plowing is not about buying a plow, sending out mailers or placing a add in C-list. It's a business and your a industry professional, the guys that don't get that are what's hiding up the industry.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

BUFF said:


> There are a few and guess you're one of the special ones that didn't have a tough go at it when you started. I'm not trying to paint a gloomy picture and trying to be realistic in my statement.
> Plowing is not about buying a plow, sending out mailers or placing a add in C-list. It's a business and your a industry professional, the guys that don't get that are what's hiding up the industry.


LOL, special one, not a tough time, I wish.

I worked my butt off and I made mistakes.

My first season I think I only made $500 after paying expensives.

I personally believe the biggest mistake anyone makes is they move too fast and grow too big too quickly.

Looking back I would have started in my home town and then started expanding out to the closet town and so on.

In the beginning I was all over the place with different contracts nothing more than a 45 minutes drive but factor in snow and your talking a hour or more. 
I used to spend at least 2-3 hours on the road just driving from place to place.
Now all my contracts are with-in 15 to 20 minutes of each other and the only way I am going further than that is if it's worth it.

It's the nature of our business, anyone can buy a plow and put it on their truck and try to do it as a business.

Whether they succeed or not is up to them.

One thing I think we really need is federal laws regarding lawsuits involving snow and ice.

Too many people out there looking to make some fast money on slip & falls even when it is their own fault.


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