# seeking advise today.



## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

Ok good people, here it is in a nutshell. After years of subbing myself out im going to go after one large property with an associate. The paved lot is approximately 2.5 acres. We plan to keep a case 580 on site, plowing with a dodge 2500 8' blade and an isuzu npr 9' blade. I was thinking flat rate of $48000. for up to 84 " of snow & up to 8 cubic yards of salt/sand. Trucking out snow will be an add on. All advise welcomed, thankx, Scott


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Ok. I figured this out mathmatically - using 57" of average snowfall per year and eight visits. Of course, I don't know if that's accurate or not, since I don't know what area of Mass you're at nor the specific requirements of the site. Anyway:

$48,000 / 8 visits = $6000 per visit
$6000 / 2.5 acres = $2400 per acre

Do you think you'll get the bid for that?


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

Thankx for the quick reply mick. I have an inside lead on the site, the contractor that has held the contract for years is charging $ 55000. and doing a lousey job. I guess i should mention there is piles of steele stock throughout the lot, it is not an easy place to plow.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

There are a lot of people plowing with small margins. Do you think you can discount his price by $7,000? If he is doing a poor job you should be able to get the same price and supply a higher level of service.


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

I really want the acct & we will be cool with the 48 K. After we show them how much better we are, we will go up in 2007.


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## ALarsh (Jun 12, 2004)

Take inside information on bids with a grain of salt. I was given "inside" info on a lawn account and was told the last contractor was paid $3,200 for the year. It turns out they actually paid him $1,700.

Bid what you need to make $.


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## DBL (Aug 27, 2005)

do math what you want an hour a truck and also the area with like 2 in 4 in a ft and play with small numbers not the whole season in one price


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## Grn Mtn (Sep 21, 2004)

*sell service not price.*

If that indeed was the previous price, and costs have gone up (steel/gas -sounds like this they should know) then you should price yourself Higher!, but maybe do it per trip/billed monthly instead. This way they might save money if its light like last winter.

BUT, what you do is get your self some Turkey Wings for the NPR, and ProWings for the Dodge and explain to the customer the reason you'll do a better job is because you won't be spilling snow off into the various piles of steel.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I know I could push 2.5 acres and salt here for $48,000 no problem. Our averages tell us that we will push approx. 20 times, 1" or more. Last year we had 1 snowfall over 6" and the previous year we had 2. We will salt another 40-45 times. A broker would cost approx. $4500 for the year and 2 Tons of salt at $65/ton X 45 times is another $5850. Cost of salt, truck driver, truck, fuel, maintenance and insurance might be $6000 more so that would leave a good profit but here it would be go for less then $48,000 for that contract.


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

*thanx to all for the feedback.*

I know we will make some good money at 48k, i think im going to go with those numbers. Trucking out snow is an extra, and cleaning snow off the steele with the 580 and a laborer is an extra & $117.50 pr. hr.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

If you know you are going to make good money and you are happy then go for it. How is your NPR? I have a W5500 with a very long wheel base. We take the back off for the winter and put a 4.4 cubic yard hydraulic salter on. This truck is great. I have considered buying a short wheel base with a 10 or 11' dump box. I know Fuso makes a 4X4 which I might also look at.


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

The npr plows great, we use the snoway system on that truck, the downpressure feature is good insurence when plowing non 4wd trucks and you can fully tilt the cab with the plow on. Im very impressed with snoway. The best plow we ever owned was actually a kubota.


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

We made it through round 1, its down to us and the co. that has retained it for the last few years. We have to put together a per inch bid this weekend, as they want it both ways! Any advise on this bid welcomed> Thankx Scott.


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

*3 year deal*

We did not get the $ 48,000. I think we got a 3 year $120,000 deal, i should know today. I really hope we get this. The snow business up here is very cutthroat now!


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

ALarsh said:


> Take inside information on bids with a grain of salt. I was given "inside" info on a lawn account and was told the last contractor was paid $3,200 for the year. It turns out they actually paid him $1,700.
> 
> Bid what you need to make $.


VERY GOOD ADVISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That happend to me as well. After that I did just that, bid what I need to make to make a decent profit.


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

*No Deal For Us, Lowballed Out !!!*

Get this, the lowballer is going to plow 4 acres, 4 inches deep and clean the snow out between the timbers ( the steele is on large timbers) on 40 piles of steele, both sides, PLUS all the snow in the employee parking lot (60000 sq. ft) is pushed to one side, that has to be moved out back (approximately 1000 feet) are you sitting down? For $700.


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## DugHD (Nov 1, 2005)

Lawnking- sorry to hear that , it sucks to be excited about landing a contract only to lose it. Stay friends with the place you bid on , they might need your services after a couple of storms.


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## Northland (Oct 1, 2006)

Definetly stay close... Make sure they know your offer still stands (or may go up abit because you picked up soooo many accounts to make up for losing this one  ) when the lowballer defaults on his contract. Dont really bad mouth them...but express your concern that they might have a tough time living up to thier end of the bargian and you dont want the company to end up in a jam when the lowballer cant come through.


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

Thankx to all that participated in this thread. We will plow banks again this winter, perhaps we will even get serious snowfall. We will send a polite letter to the owner of the steele company, bottom line is we were both trying to do the best we could for our companys!


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## EnviroTeam (Sep 29, 2006)

You know, you would think the Steel company's negotiator would be thinking twice about hiring that guy wouldn't you. Let's see, he needed almost 7000 to do it last year and couldn't keep them happy, but now he can do a better job for 700 this year....hmmmmm And they thought they weren't happy with the job he was doing before....

Me thinks you might want to steer clear. They were bad mouthing the other guys work but still kept using him.

There may be no such thing as bad publicity, but there is such a thing as a bad reputation and that is what they give you when they bad mouth.


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## jbone (Mar 18, 2006)

DugHD said:


> Lawnking- sorry to hear that , it sucks to be excited about landing a contract only to lose it. Stay friends with the place you bid on , they might need your services after a couple of storms.


Thats what happened to a friend of mine last year. And what do ya know after the first storm he was getting a phone call from the place he lost in a bid.


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

The snow business has really changed in the last decade! 10 years ago we were making a fourtune plowing supermarkets. The clock never stopped running, just keep the lot open, no matter what it takes, that was the deal. That my friends is why they call it the GOOD OLD DAYS!


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