# Could this be you?



## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Has or does anyone contract with SMG? My experience with them has been a nightmare. They are not well run, but are good at giving the run around when it comes time to get paid. This company is a joke, it's amazing they're in business. Now I understand why they came to us at the last minute when they had no other contractors in the area to do work. We have gone above and beyond, but of course now I'm having to fight them to get paid. Absolutely Ridiculous!

What's been your experience?


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## parrothead (Nov 19, 2003)

we do quite a bit of work with smg, one of the best in the business, imo, i cant imagine you saying they are not run well, i think if anything they are run extremely well! if you want to see runaround and not getting paid, look up national landscape, smg has overseen more than 100k to me and i've been paid every penny. maybe you need to cool off and give them a chance, im sure there is a glitch in every system. if you have a problem, call them, dont sound off on this forum, just my 2 cents worth.


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## SLC1 (Jul 27, 2000)

We have worked for them for over 4 years and have excellent luck with them. Have never had any problems getting paid and have given us a decent amount for our work, they have paid within 45 days or less, and have only had a few problems with some invoices, I know that they have grown alot in the past few years and maybe you are experiencing some of their growing pains. I would say to stick it out, because I think that they are going to be around for a while and they may be good to know that you can work for them. Just My two cents

www.schmidtlawncare.com


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## Lanelle (Feb 16, 2000)

Here's the other place you posted this same thread with my reply:
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?postid=144738

I agree with the others. SMG is a good company and I like working for them. We have a variety of contracts both with SMG and independently. The money is good and the types of sites they offer lend themselves to good profit margins.


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Why shouldn't I sound off, as you call it, in this forum? I thought we were here to help each other. I still have not gotten paid, and the more I investigate, it seems to be the way of SMG to hold a lot of people up for a lot of money. It's not right . I don't care for it and I don't go for it.

I am not independently wealthy and am not working to finance their operation. 
You might be surpised at the email I rec'd back from John Allin, that apparently was not supposed to make it to me. Pretty unprofessional if you ask me. Funny how now I have other contractors calling me and telling their tales of woe with SMG.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

Hmmm,..... 

I gather that SMG is a national property management company? Or is it a national property maintenance company?

Either way. Just hearing from local guys who sub out to these type of companies.....The money DOES eventually come.....SLOW, but it does come.

Just so you know. Corporate America averages 45-90 days net.


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Yes they are national. And believe me I know about the corporate side, I was there once. However, when we signed their contract, and they have written in net 30 days, that's what I expect. I don't think that's unreasonable. We have done everything according to the contract , therefore, they should hold to what they agreed to. BTW, this is not the only issue I have with SMG. When I originally walked away from the contract, citing my concerns, they assured me we could work through them. I thought we had do such, I made the changes in the contract and sent it to them, noting the day and time of the conversation and the party involved, only to get a letter back that they did not recall that conversation and that the original contract is what they're going by.

BS.


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## Lanelle (Feb 16, 2000)

I got a check from Snow Management Group today for work we did in February. I think I'll have my beef medium rare, with a nice salad tonight.


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## Big Nate's Plowing (Nov 26, 2000)

SMG / JAA is the hot topic on the other board right now, and 80% of the posts are negative. good luck getting $$ out of them, I decided to pass on doing the CVS stores because they wanted me to take an addidional 1.5 mil in insurance out

screw that $500k & $1mil umbrella is fine thanks


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

I'm still waiting for money from our January 15-18th snows!  

And this is a customer, not a sub job!

Thats over 70 days! But this time of year is when the money crunch starts, so money now is nice. I charge accordingly to this job, as they're NEVER quicker than 60 days.

So this SMG company probably gets paid 60 or 90 days out from their clients, and then pays you in 30-60 after that. Nothing wrong there.  

Like I said....Corporate America


But God forbid your 23 hours late on a Credit card bill!


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## Dwan (Mar 24, 2004)

I am going to play dumb here. Who is SMG?

Dwan


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

SMG stands for Snow Management Group, a part of Allin Companies which is owned by John Allin.

http://www.snowmanagementgroup.com/

John was also instrumental in forming SIMA:

http://www.sima.org/

His company also got the contract for plowing the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City in 2002 (see the link on the SMG page). SMG is the top income producer in the snow management industry. He used to be quite active on this site.


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## Sean Adams (Jan 9, 2000)

Several things.... first, in all the years I have been in this industry, I have heard the good and the bad about many companies. I can say that Mr. Allin and his company have an outstanding reputation. It's true, he has been instrumental for this industry as a whole. I feel that if there is a specific problem one person has with another company, it should be handled accordingly.

Yes, this is a forum where people have the right to voice their opinion. But bashing a company out of nowhere is not going to go on at this site. What happens at other sites has nothing to do with the way things happen here.

Mr. Allin is a busy man. He does not have the time to post as much as he used to. But nevertheless, he is still a welcomed and respected member of this community.

My suggestion is to either email or call Mr. Allin directly. Work this problem out with him. Merely stating something on an open forum for thousands to see without proof is nothing more than slander.

Nate - a company requesting you carry a certain amount of insurance does not justify your post.


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

So that's how it's going to be Sean? I was simply looking for input for my fellow plow brothers/sisters. Nothing slanderous about the plain facts. It's amazing what I have found out about SMG in recent days and it's enough to make you sick. Contrary to what you say about it just being one person who has a problem, it appears as though there are many of us here who have issues with SMG.

I wish everyone well in getting paid. Good Luck.


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## Dwan (Mar 24, 2004)

Sean I got my answer and now know what SMG stands for please go back to my post asking and delete it as I did not intend to open a can of worms.
again sorry I asked
Dwan


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Dwan _
> *Sean I got my answer and now know what SMG stands for please go back to my post asking and delete it as I did not intend to open a can of worms.
> again sorry I asked
> Dwan *


I see nothing wrong in asking what SMG stands for. It was an entirely appropriate question.


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## Lanelle (Feb 16, 2000)

Plowed,
As I recall, you mentioned that you had issues with the wording/terms of the contract. If you disagreed before you ever started plowing, it's no surprise that you're not happy now. Not everyone is going to like following the procedures that SMG has in place. There are plenty of other sites and plenty of other plowers. Will you let us know when you get a check?


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## Big Nate's Plowing (Nov 26, 2000)

Sean, so I cannot state what I posted because of what rule?



why should I add in another $2k in cost only to find out I was lowballed?

thanks, but no thanks!

also,

The contract that I received stated "payment of services will be rendered after approval from the client" I was under the assumption and my lawyer too that if CVS said no go then I was out the money and I had no leg to stand on to file suit against CVS because I did not sign with CVS, only SMG. 

basically all CVS had to do was say they were not satisfied and the contractor would be f-ed


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## capital (Sep 26, 2000)

Mr. Adams,

I have read the post regarding SMG and now your last post and wonder why you have allowed people to slam other national chains who have sub contracted snow removal but feel neccessary to protect SMG?
I have had no dealings with SMG and do not see any future dealings based on my companies market current operations. 
I have met Mr. Allin to take a class on snow removal and read his book and cd for contracts. One of which we used after letting our attorney have his way. 
I state all of this to be open and above bored, in the past people have been allowed to post their post regarding how long it takes to get paid by national firms. In this case you seem to be stating that their is one company we should not critize. If this is to be the policy then all discussion on payment from vendors would go the way side. 
I also do not think it wise to use the word slander in any mention regarding the post above, tact less, winning, sloppy and groveling from a sub might work but see nothing slanderous in any of the post.


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## Lanelle (Feb 16, 2000)

I can't believe that some of you have been members here for several years and have such short memories. John Allin was a moderator on this forum for quite a long time. If you do a search you'll find that he posted a lot of info here. So he is a PS member and bashing members is a no-no. At least your post wasn't pulled.


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## Big Nate's Plowing (Nov 26, 2000)

[email protected]@k above Lanelle



show me the bashing

what I see are strait facts, he also said that the company is jerking him around which is apparently happening.

I am still waiting for JAA to login & post a rebuttal,..... after all he is a long member of the board..........


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Lanelle, to be fair, the post is not about John Allin but SMG. It may be argued that they are the same, but really are not. Since there have been threads related to experiences with other companies, this should be allowed. Blind allegience is dangerous.


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## parrothead (Nov 19, 2003)

ok, just my experience with smg and cvs contracts. in two years they have never not done what they said they are going to do. cvs holds the invoices for 30 days aand then pays on the next wednesday, which could be another week and then the check usually takes a week to get to me in illinois from rhode island, where cvs is located. so if someone does work for cvs and then doesnt send in an invoice right away, it could take 70 to 90 days but that is your own fault. and actually about the insurance requirement, they came down this year from 3 million to 1 million so you are making statements that arent true just to bash a company you dont like. when you deal with companies like this, you have to figure in the cost of money to plow their lots. i could plow them cheaper than i do but i understand that i may not get paid for 45 days so i have to add a premium. smg and cvs have done everything they have said in the contract.


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Lanelle: Yes I did have problems with their contract. I raised these issues with SMG, we agree to a revised contract, however, after both I and SMG signed the contract, I received a letter from their Risk Management Dept. that the changes were not valid and the party from SMG that I had made the changes with, does not recall our conversation.

I will let you know when I receive a check.


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Parrothead: not sure if your last post is directed to me or others, but this is not a CVS contract. The contract terms are different for us vs. CVS contracts.


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## parrothead (Nov 19, 2003)

yes, it was directed at you, im just saying in my experience, smg has been a very good company to work with and do what they say they are going to do. im sorry if your situation is different because they are a very good company to work for. good luck!


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## Big Nate's Plowing (Nov 26, 2000)

> _Originally posted by parrothead _
> * actually about the insurance requirement, they came down this year from 3
> million to 1 million so you are making statements that arent true just to bash a
> company you dont like. *


the 2003-2004 contract stated 2 MIL general with a 3 mil umbrella

maybe yours stated differently but *I KNOW*what the one I received said.

as for "making a untrue statement to bash a company" that is BS right there,

• I have no intention to "bash" a company
• I just made a statement that I refused to do business with them.

*as for talking about a unpleasant experience:
*• the company being *talked* about is SMG
• SMG does *NOT* mean JAA specifically
• so saying a bad thing about SMG does *NOT* equate to 
bashing a member on the board (JAA)


From _*
"The 20 commandments";*_

•You are not permitted to _*harass*_ other members at PlowSite.com. This includes offensive remarks or remarks that attempt to provoke another member. Sarcastic baiting is also not permitted. If you disagree with someone, state why, but do not resort to name calling, threats, etc…


the rules do not specifically say " you may not post anything bad about any company on the web" ( but expect a revision soon)



Nate~


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

In the interest of keeping this thread fair and balanced, I must tell you that I did just receive a check from SMG. It even included our last invoice for March. They do still owe us for the retainage that they withheld from each payment.

Regarding the site that we do, I can't take all the credit either. We work with another contractor, Cariati Development from Meriden. They are great to work with and are very professional. Unfortunatley though, last I knew they had not gotten paid either.

I rec'd another email from an SMG employee last night. He seems pretty bitter and says that I'm good at fighting someone who has his back turned. BS. Maybe he was finally having trouble going to sleep last night.

Again, you guys/gals have been great with all of your support. If there's anything I can ever do to help any of you here, please never hesitate to ask. I sincerely appreciate everything.

Best Regards to All.


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## Lanelle (Feb 16, 2000)

Some wondered why Sean would defend JAA, I simply tried to point out why that might be. My post was about Sean, not SMG.


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## gpin (Dec 5, 2003)

I do large commercial work with a variety of different owners/managers. In the past 20 years, I have never had a problem with a client that I serviced well. All of my problems have been linked to a mistake or oversight by myself or my company. I have found that you need 1 reliable back up vehicle for every 4-5 vehicles on the road to effectively service commercial accounts in a timely manner. We carry extra parts, hoses, pumps, batteries, lights as well. We also back up other contractors in the area and those cooperating rarely bill each other unless it is a huge job. We let the goodwill ride. I am able to maintain profitable margins because I strive to be the best at what I do with no excuses.


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