# Best approach to plowing these lots?



## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Hey everyone, just looking for the most efficient way for me to plow this lot, this one has me stumped. The section at the top in purple has to be plowed, and I'm not sure where to put the snow. Some people told me to let it out as I go and fluff it into the street, but im almost certain in Philadelphia that is illegal. Thoughts? For clarity, purple is plowing and yellow is shoveling. But sometimes ill plow the yellow if its at night and wide enough.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

What are your clients request?

How did you bid it out?

All those should have be considered beforehand.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

In almost every city throughout US you can't plow into the street.

I'm with old dog. This should've/needs to be discussed with the customer. They may want you to just take up a few of the southern parking stalls, or they could even want you removing it. Without talking with them, you won't know.

Edit: after looking again, if you pile it in the parking space, it I'll melt right onto the sidewalk. That will probably become a huge headache.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Im a sub contractor, I just go to the four lots where he tells me to go. He said just let it out as you go and basically said to fluff it into the street, they dont want it hauled away. I guess take up some parking spots?


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Where would you guys put the snow in the main lot? Also, here is another property I manage, and once again, where would you put the snow?


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

And here are the last 2, I really appreciate the help, only my second year doing this, so Im still learning. Thank you for all your help


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

My bad, uploaded the same thing twice


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## Hysert (Dec 16, 2009)

You better have a good talk with your coordinator!! You can't put anything on the street!!! They need have a designated spot and if it needs to be haul out once or twice oh well... its a cost of doing buisness and the buisness should unddrstand that! You will be into a lawsuit if you do it his way!!! I don' see why you can't pile in the corners away from the buildings


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## Unraveller (Jan 28, 2014)

Collision said:


> Im a sub contractor, I just go to the four lots where he tells me to go. He said just let it out as you go and basically said to fluff it into the street, they dont want it hauled away. I guess take up some parking spots?


Does he pay your fines and/or liability?


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Unraveller said:


> Does he pay your fines and/or liability?


Thats a good question, I carry GL of 1 million because I have my own lots in addition, but last year he told me he carried the liability. As for fines i really dont know, Im not pushing into the street thats all I know


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Hysert said:


> You better have a good talk with your coordinator!! You can't put anything on the street!!! They need have a designated spot and if it needs to be haul out once or twice oh well... its a cost of doing buisness and the buisness should unddrstand that! You will be into a lawsuit if you do it his way!!! I don' see why you can't pile in the corners away from the buildings


In reference to the top site, the little strip next to the main lot, thats the one he said go to the street


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Collision said:


> Im a sub contractor, I just go to the four lots where he tells me to go. He said just let it out as you go and basically said to fluff it into the street, they dont want it hauled away. I guess take up some parking spots?


Did you ask him where it's supposed to go?
Did he do them last year or year before?
What did the customer say?


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

dieselss said:


> Did you ask him where it's supposed to go?
> Did he do them last year or year before?
> What did the customer say?


Again, he told me on the top site, the narrow strip on the top, just loft it into the street and I don't know if he did it last year, i did 3 different rite aids last year, but I did the bank of America last year.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Collision said:


> Again, he told me on the top site, the narrow strip on the top, just loft it into the street


I get that you already said, and we said it's wrong period. You still have that back section right?

Why about the others, what did he say?
What do the customers want?


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

If that's your contractors solution, I'd be tempted find another contractor....

Maybe go in and talk to the manager at the locations about where it was stacked last year.

I've never worked with a contractor willing to risk his reputation by having subs push snow in the street, or left them to fend for themselves on lots that were confusing to the sub. If your contractor doesn't know (and I'm shocked he's in business if not) then as a last resort, like I said, I'd talk to the property owner or manager. I'm still floored your contractor told you to push it in the street.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

1olddogtwo said:


> What are your clients request?
> 
> How did you bid it out?
> 
> All those should have be considered beforehand.


Huh???....Why do that??...I think these are lots he is being "told" what he is getting


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Defcon 5 said:


> Huh???....Why do that??...I think these are lots he is being "told" what he is getting


It wasn't until later in the thread through discovery that we learned he was just handed these lots.

OP, your contractor should have legitimate answers besides pushing it across the street, or onto the street. Who are "some people"?

Also you talking past tense about plowing the sidewalks at night, are am I interpreting it incorrectly?


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

dieselss said:


> I get that you already said, and we said it's wrong period. You still have that back section right?
> 
> Why about the others, what did he say?
> What do the customers want?


Yes I still have the back section, I know its wrong to plow into the street, thats why I asked here, I don't know the customer, never met him or her before.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

1olddogtwo said:


> It wasn't until later in the thread through discovery that we learned he was just handed these lots.
> 
> OP, your contractor should have legitimate answers besides pushing it across the street, or onto the street. Who are "some people"?
> 
> Also you talking past tense about plowing the sidewalks at night, are am I interpreting it incorrectly?


Last year, I plowed the side walks when it was nighttime at the one rite aid, I would plow the side walk because it was faster and as far as I know not illegal. I was planning on doing the same this year. I agree he should have better answers, hes a really good guy, and in this situation it makes alot of sense, these locations are kind of in the ghetto if you know what I mean...


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

JMHConstruction said:


> If that's your contractors solution, I'd be tempted find another contractor....
> 
> Maybe go in and talk to the manager at the locations about where it was stacked last year.
> 
> I've never worked with a contractor willing to risk his reputation by having subs push snow in the street, or left them to fend for themselves on lots that were confusing to the sub. If your contractor doesn't know (and I'm shocked he's in business if not) then as a last resort, like I said, I'd talk to the property owner or manager. I'm still floored your contractor told you to push it in the street.


This is also from the area of the city where "if you have 2 wheels on the sidewalk you arent on the street". He told me thats how he plowed it last year and had no issues, but im not willing to plow into the street, that's wrong, my dad taught me that when I was snow blowing as a kid.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Most guys here are not going to tell you to do something that is illegal, or un professional. Your either going to have to put the snow in a corner. Take your chances in the street, or walk away. This is in Philly, a bad section, are you carrying?


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Randall Ave said:


> Most guys here are not going to tell you to do something that is illegal, or un professional. Your either going to have to put the snow in a corner. Take your chances in the street, or walk away. This is in Philly, a bad section, are you carrying?


So put it in the corner, like the end parking spot? Behind where the white car is? And I carry, but my shoveler does not, so I keep an eye on him and I carry no cash.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

You need to go over this with the contract holder, and the property owner. We can only day what we would do. I do a small dinner. His lot gets smaller as the winter progresses. If snow has to be removed, he had to pay accordingly.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Randall Ave said:


> You need to go over this with the contract holder, and the property owner. We can only day what we would do. I do a small dinner. His lot gets smaller as the winter progresses. If snow has to be removed, he had to pay accordingly.


So pile the snow where i circled?


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Collision said:


> Again, he told me on the top site, the narrow strip on the top, just loft it into the street and I don't know if he did it last year, i did 3 different rite aids last year, but I did the bank of America last year.


He doesn't care if it's illegal because your the one that will get the ticket and fines.

You better talk to your client and tell him upfront you not putting it in the street because it's illegal and which spots does he want it stacked at and if you get a lot tell him he will lose more spots or he can pay to get it hauled away.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Collision said:


> So pile the snow where i circled?
> 
> View attachment 174993


Good a place as any. That lot should not take more than 15 minutes to plow.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Randall Ave said:


> Good a place as any. That lot should not take more than 15 minutes to plow.


My boss said the same thing, he has almost 75 contracts just in philly, and i know one of them is target, so he must be doing something right... i guess that spot in the corner and pile the rest far away from the building, looks like alot of back dragging ahead this winter


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Collision said:


> he has almost 75 contracts just in philly, and i know one of them is target, so he must be doing something right...


Bidding it cheap because he has no idea where to put snow? 

Jokes aside, it looks like those are one way streets? If so, stack it to the other side so you don't block the view of oncoming traffic as the stack gets bigger. If they're not one way, stack where you were talking about. You want to try to stack on site opposite side of the direction you're looking for oncoming cars, if that makes sense.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

JMHConstruction said:


> Bidding it cheap because he has no idea where to put snow?
> 
> Jokes aside, it looks like those are one way streets? If so, stack it to the other side so you don't block the view of oncoming traffic as the stack gets bigger. If they're not one way, stack where you were talking about. You want to try to stack on site opposite side of the direction you're looking for oncoming cars, if that makes sense.


 Yep, so cars can see around the turn without a blind spot


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## Hysert (Dec 16, 2009)

Randall Ave said:


> Good a place as any. That lot should not take more than 15 minutes to plow.


With a 7foot straight blade?? I highly dought it!!

OP. Judging by the photos you posted and your avatar photo your gonna need wings or box ends to carry material!!! Or your gonna throw profit out te window


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

He has a Target....... WTF does that have the lot

Sounds like he's working for a NSP, hope you get paid.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Hysert said:


> With a 7foot straight blade?? I highly dought it!!
> *doubt and in my avatar its an 8 foot 6 western, but my new truck has an 8ft western ultramount.
> OP. Judging by the photos you posted and your avatar photo your gonna need wings or box ends to carry material!!! Or your gonna throw profit out te window


I get paid by the hour, I don't care how long it takes. I just like to work efficiently 


1olddogtwo said:


> He has a Target....... WTF does that have the lot
> He has like 6 or 7 trucks in his fleet plus subs, a few bob cats and multiple trailers
> Sounds like he's working for a NSP, hope you get paid.


I worked for him last year and always got paid on time the right amount.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

For the record, my new 2002 f250 v10 6.8 ccsb has an 8 foot 3 plug ultramount, old truck had a 8.5 foot, I plowed alot last year, my equipment is fine.


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## fhafer (Jan 31, 2014)

Down here in Virginia no one designs lots with green space or areas to stack snow. I make the customer designate one parking spot to stack snow in...or they pay me to haul. All choose to lose a parking spot because snow rarely stays more than three days. We'll get 4-6 inches of snow and then temps in the 50s two days later. I'm a transplant from the Boston area and it's a challenge pushing snow down here, Zero parts support for equipment, no bulk suppliers, and sometimes a year or two without a snow event. But when it happens few around here are equipped to handle it so we make great Cha-ching.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

That's exactly how it is in the city, no parking as it is, and no room for snow. In some sections of south philly, after they shovel out their spot they put a cone or chair or trashcan, so no one likes snow piles


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## C.green (Oct 29, 2017)

I had a contractor tell my this year that i can pile snow across the street from the lots im plowing for him. I know thats illegal so i took my guys and showed them where to pile the snow on location. If hes not paying for fines im stacking on the lots. 
SIMA says to always stack snow on the furthest corner parking lot away from building.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

C.green said:


> I had a contractor tell my this year that i can pile snow across the street from the lots im plowing for him. I know thats illegal so i took my guys and showed them where to pile the snow on location. If hes not paying for fines im stacking on the lots.
> SIMA says to always stack snow on the furthest corner parking lot away from building.


As long as its not the high side of the lot.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

run forest run.....looks like he wants to give you his garbage lots


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

In the actual picture it looks like there is some green line there by a tree. You will being carrying a lot of snow to spot. Make sure you get more money as it will take you more time. Also make sure you cover yourself for removal.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

leolkfrm said:


> run forest run.....looks like he wants to give you his garbage lots


I disagree, thats just how it is in the city


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

FredG said:


> In the actual picture it looks like there is some green line there by a tree. You will being carrying a lot of snow to spot. Make sure you get more money as it will take you more time. Also make sure you cover yourself for removal.


I get paid by the hour, not by the lot or season.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Those are parking lots full of snow. Your not going to "fluff" the snow into the road even if you wanted to.
The snow will end up going in some configuration looking like this.









Your going to have an issue with the plow guy pushing snow from the top lot into your alley parking by the white car.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Freshwater said:


> Those are parking lots full of snow. Your not going to "fluff" the snow into the road even if you wanted to.
> The snow will end up going in some configuration looking like this.
> View attachment 175010
> 
> ...


Thank you for being the first person to actually answer my question, he just means fluff it into the street on the top lot by the white car, not the entire thing, and I am aware I will not be putting snow in the street. I plan to put it as far as possible from the main entrance in a parking spot


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Collision said:


> Im a sub contractor, I just go to the four lots where he tells me to go. He said just let it out as you go and basically said to fluff it into the street, they dont want it hauled away. I guess take up some parking spots?


You working for CityToe???


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Collision said:


> I get paid by the hour, not by the lot or season.


That's a bummer. You make way more money as a sub if you get paid by the lot.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> That's a bummer. You make way more money as a sub if you get paid by the lot.


I have a few of my own lots, we do it this way because after I do mine, I go to other lots that he needs help with, with one storm i can easily work for 5 days straight doing clean up


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You working for CityToe???


Never heard of them. Currently Im subcontracting for CDI, custom doors and installation. Any ways, here is street view of where I will be plowing.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Collision said:


> I get paid by the hour, not by the lot or season.


No worry's then, Go in there and put the snow where you can safely, Meaning using some parking spots etc, Or just carry it where you need to, If you spend a hour for 20 mins work so be it. If it's got to be removed so be it. Your by the hour, yes be productive but if you take longer so be it.

The Contractor your working for should know the scope of work and know if there is issues with snow piles and even where to place it. Leave some guys without no direction could go south. Maybe tell him your concerns they are good questions since he forgot to go over it with you. FYI I'm not so sure I would want to drive my truck on there sidewalk.

The specs are not intended for truck traffic on foot traffic walk except in driveways. I guess it don't matter since he told you he did it.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

FredG said:


> No worry's then, Go in there and put the snow where you can safely, Meaning using some parking spots etc, Or just carry it where you need to, If you spend a hour for 20 mins work so be it. If it's got to be removed so be it. Your by the hour, yes be productive but if you take longer so be it.
> 
> The Contractor your working for should know the scope of work and know if there is issues with snow piles and even where to place it. Leave some guys without no direction could go south. Maybe tell him your concerns they are good questions since he forgot to go over it with you. FYI I'm not so sure I would want to drive my truck on there sidewalk.
> 
> The specs are not intended for truck traffic on foot traffic walk except in driveways. I guess it don't matter since he told you he did it.


All very true, but did you see my screen shot from street view? How would you approach it? Do i try to move that snow into the main lot?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Collision said:


> All very true, but did you see my screen shot from street view? How would you approach it? Do i try to move that snow into the main lot?


I think so, Now in your last shot I see 2 cars there on the right. one parked on the left. I would cone off 4 parking spots off when you know you got some snow or a possibility of it. I would not want to push that whole road far in the lot. If I'm understanding what your talking about.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

What buildings are you plowing is one the pnc bank. It's better to put a address so we can look at it on findalot we can get measurements etc.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

FredG said:


> What buildings are you plowing is one the pnc bank. It's better to put a address so we can look at it on findalot we can get measurements etc.


Just the pnc, its 1001 e erie ave Philadelphia pa


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

The four main lots I have are 1000 cottman ave Philadelphia pa (Bank of America)

1001 e erie ave Philadelphia pa (PNC)

4710 rising sun ave Philadelphia pa (PNC)

6705 rising sun ace Philadelphia pa (PNC)


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

So 1001 erie is the job in ? If so you are plow palmetto a 1/4 block of road on the entrance side of the bank.? Or is it the road part between erie, 1 ST, and palmetto that is not marked. There is no entrance to the bank on that side of property. If so you would be hard pressed for me to push that snow in the parking lot. I say windrow it to one side or other or half and half and call it a day.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You working for CityToe???


That was my first thought.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

FredG said:


> So 1001 erie is the job in ? If so you are plow palmetto a 1/4 block of road on the entrance side of the bank.? Or is it the road part between erie, 1 ST, and palmetto that is not marked. There is no entrance to the bank on that side of property. If so you would be hard pressed for me to push that snow in the parking lot. I say windrow it to one side or other or half and half and call it a day.


Thats what I was thinking too, I think its extra parking or something, i guess push it towards the curb like you said. According to the map, plow purple and shovel yellow


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Do they have a dumpster you can put the snow in.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Do they have a dumpster you can put the snow in.


Lol, you actually made me laugh with that one. I was thinking we should just plow it into the river like Philadelphia did before


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Collision said:


> Thats what I was thinking too, I think its extra parking or something, i guess push it towards the curb like you said. According to the map, plow purple and shovel yellow
> 
> View attachment 175014


You have no choice, If the City was plowing it that is all they would do. You have no entrance anyway. I don't think anybody would want you pushing the snow out to 1st or palmetto to put that snow in the parking lot. Just windrow you will be fine.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

FredG said:


> You have no choice, If the City was plowing it that is all they would do. You have no entrance anyway. I don't think anybody would want you pushing the snow out to 1st or palmetto to put that snow in the parking lot. Just windrow you will be fine.


What about the other 3 lots, just pile in the corners?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Collision said:


> What about the other 3 lots, just pile in the corners?


The other 3 lots are kinda simple. 4710 you will have to push most of it by the drive thu exit. 6705 I would push all the snow in the islands, Might take up a parking spot here and there. 1000 push both entrances and road to property line side, push the sidewalk side into the island there. Stack all of them the best you can, If your taking to much space it's time for removal. Don't sweat it you can only do the best you can but stack high.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

FredG said:


> The other 3 lots are kinda simple. 4710 you will have to push most of it by the drive thu exit. 6705 I would push all the snow in the islands, Might take up a parking spot here and there. 1000 push both entrances and road to property line side, push the sidewalk side into the island there. Stack all of them the best you can, If your taking to much space it's time for removal. Don't sweat it you can only do the best you can but stack high.


Good thing he has a chain lift.....


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> Good thing he has a chain lift.....


What's that mean?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

ktfbgb said:


> Good thing he has a chain lift.....


It would be EVEN better if his truck was a stick tho


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Collision said:


> What's that mean?


The word in the sand box is chain lift stack higher, which is a good thing in your case.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

FredG said:


> The word in the sand box is chain lift stack higher, which is a good thing in your case.


There you go OP.

But really, it's a heavily debated issue. And was meant as a joke for guys that have been on here for a while.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

dieselss said:


> It would be EVEN better if his truck was a stick tho


It would add at least 6.27" to the stacking ability.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

I have nothing of value to add,just one ? Whats your average annual snowfall? Even in my pathetic area those lots would lose half their parking spots after a few good storms. Guess that would actually help you,less time to plow.


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

leigh said:


> I have nothing of value to add,just one ? Whats your average annual snowfall? Even in my pathetic area those lots would lose half their parking spots after a few good storms. Guess that would actually help you,less time to plow.


About 16 inches on average


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> There you go OP.
> 
> But really, it's a heavily debated issue. And was meant as a joke for guys that have been on here for a while.


I say use whatever you want and dont worry about it


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Collision said:


> About 16 inches on average


I'm willing to bet that's incorrect. Where did you find that, and how many years was that averaged?


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Collision said:


> I say use whatever you want and dont worry about it


Well I dont have that mindset. I am constantly looking at options to make me more efficient in my job, wether its old technology that I dont have experience with, or emerging new technology. I worry about it a lot in fact. If you keep up with what's going on in your industry, so for me contracting and snow and ice management, it makes you better. And it gives you an advantage over your competition. The customers absolutely notice it. An attitude of meh, it works for me and I'm not worried about it, is what traps guys and either forces them into stagnitation or worse bankrupts them because they weren't willing to keep up and lead the pack.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Collision said:


> About 16 inches on average


While that may be what google says, I wouldn't go off of that, I looked up a news article and it showed a blizzard in 2016 dropping 23" of snow, i couldn't tell you how many years they're basing their average off of, but perhaps you should do 3 or 5 years


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

JMHConstruction said:


> I'm willing to bet that's incorrect. Where did you find that, and how many years was that averaged?


Very true, a brief google search told me 16, but upon futher review more like 22


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## Collision (Jun 16, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> Well I dont have that mindset. I am constantly looking at options to make me more efficient in my job, wether its old technology that I dont have experience with, or emerging new technology. I worry about it a lot in fact. If you keep up with what's going on in your industry, so for me contracting and snow and ice management, it makes you better. And it gives you an advantage over your competition. The customers absolutely notice it. An attitude of meh, it works for me and I'm not worried about it, is what traps guys and either forces them into stagnitation or worse bankrupts them because they weren't willing to keep up and lead the pack.


What i meant to say is I like being head of the pack, but i wont argue with others about whats best, its mostly based on opinions, if someone uses facts ill listen. Too much now a days is based off rumor and lies


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