# Salt shortage?



## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

is anyone else getting word or being cut off from salt suppliers. just got word yesterday that Cargill and north american are stopping sales and another distributor ran out last week. suppossedly st. louis is in the negative as far as salt allotments at the moment.how is this even possible in the middle of feb?


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

It's possible anytime they want to drive prices higher....................


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Theres lots if it in Toronto this year. 

Probably the first time in 8-9 years there hasnt been a so called "shortage" up here.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

JohnnyRoyale;1006114 said:


> Theres lots if it in Toronto this year.
> 
> Probably the first time in 8-9 years there hasnt been a so called "shortage" up here.


Yeah, Did the price go down due to the surplus?..........Noooooooooo!


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

I got a call from one of the suppliers last week and he actually dropped his price $5.00 a ton...then they juice the load and make it up. Thats why I stopped using them to begin with.


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## alwaysgotit (Feb 18, 2010)

*we have plenty*

we have a nice salt in chicago and seneca indianna $63/ton picked up
call us at 610-497-9390 and ask for Joe Kelly.
We have bulk and bagged salt, calcium, magnesium, blends and liquids ice melters too!
[email protected]
www.chemicalequipmentlabs.com
ussmileyflag


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## alwaysgotit (Feb 18, 2010)

*we can deliver*

it's about $115/ton delivered


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## Showmestaterida (Dec 28, 2006)

Here we go again! Why?


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

No shortage here. 65 a ton delivered.


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Heck, I ordered about 17 ton too much (Its still at Mortons but I'm on the hook for it).... anyone in Maine need some?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Mick76;1006313 said:


> Heck, I ordered about 17 ton too much (Its still at Mortons but I'm on the hook for it).... anyone in Maine need some?


Where did you buy it?


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Mortons out of Portland area... Need some Palmer? They were charging me $74 ton delivered but I'm in Auburn... I could find out how much to you if your interested?... PM me your address and I'll call for you....


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Mick76;1006348 said:


> Mortons out of Portland area... Need some Palmer? They were charging me $74 ton delivered but I'm in Auburn... I could find out how much to you if your interested?... PM me your address and I'll call for you....


I was just curious more than anything. We don't get any "brand name" salt out of Searsport.

At this rate, I won't need any more salt this year.


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

no we don't have any shortages here either


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

xtreem3d;1006003 said:


> is anyone else getting word or being cut off from salt suppliers. just got word yesterday that Cargill and north american are stopping sales and another distributor ran out last week. suppossedly st. louis is in the negative as far as salt allotments at the moment.how *is this even possible in the middle of feb?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> did you do snow removal 2 years ago? and yes its possible
> 
> i havnt heard of any shortage yet, but im not that concerned. March is aorund the corner.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt etc.*



xtreem3d;1006003 said:


> is anyone else getting word or being cut off from salt suppliers. just got word yesterday that Cargill and north american are stopping sales and another distributor ran out last week. suppossedly St. Louis is in the negative as far as salt allotments at the moment.how is this even possible in the middle of feb?


The dreaded words of SALT ALLOCATION for contracted obligation tonnages plus the additonal 20 percent ceiling tonnages of their bid contracts strikes again.

The three remaining salt mines in the five Island chain in La. are having difficulty in delivering salt by barge due to either fewer barges being available or poor river conditions affecting delivery speeds.

In some cases one mine may have to provide additional salt for a second mine owned by the same company due to equipment failures, delivery problems related to weather conditions affecting any product being sold weeks in advance.

Most if not all the salt mined at the three mines in La. and the two mines in Texas and Lyons Salt In Kansas is sold in the midwest and and if the weather is poor this affects the useage and reduces any available salt inventories for sale to any spot purchasers of product-NO MATTER THE SIZE OF THE PURCHASE.

Every bid contract as a rule has an escape clause for the buyer which mandates that the suppliers MUST provide 120% of the contracted tonnage giving the buyer who is a government entity priority above anyone else because they are obligated to provide it.

The town and villages also win because they buy Halite at the same price as the state they are in due to the contracted lower price during the bid process.

All it does is tell you that your paddle just broke and they are only obligated to sell to the buyers who have contracts first and have no obligation to sell salt to the seasonal purchaser.

Its simply a case of thier collectively outrunning the bear and your the bears -well you know.

The salt that is produced and sold above the allocation amount during that period allows them to charge more( a premium price ) for it and its always a problem with winters that have bad weather.

And as a result of most if not all states having bare roads policy more salt is used or missused, and we have more salt leaching in our surface waters and its all traceable back to the creation of the interstate highway system network in 1954.

As I have mentioned previously the formation of even a small cooperative to buy salt and deicing chemicals gves you huge buying power and leverage volume purchase in the marketplace.

There is no winner in this foot race with the "3 bears and the marketplace" as the independent stock pile owners already have spent money on salt and have sold it etc. and are waiting for their checks to come in from the municipalities for salt already delivered and may or may not be recieving more salt.

leon:waving:


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## NW Snow Removal (Oct 12, 2007)

came in to post. but leon said exactly what i was gonna post.prsport as usual, he is spot on.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

We had a wicked "shortage" last season. It would seem that, as a result, everyone and their little brother has tried to jump in the mix this year and be a "salt supplier" sporting huge stockpiles of the best material known to man in these 50 states. However, we have a had a pretty darn slow season thus far, and there is a *whole* lot of inventory that was brought up here in anticipation of heavy usage that is now sitting in pretty looking piles, costing a lot of people a lot of money.

IMHO, it was a gamble for a lot of guys to stockpile so much material here following last year's debacle. But the upside is--we have a _buttload _of salt!!

:laughing:


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

NW Snow Removal;1006561 said:


> came in to post. but leon said exactly what i was gonna post.prsport as usual, he is spot on.


Same here...but isn't he always?

Times like this show who has diversified their supply chain, and who has not.


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## alwaysgotit (Feb 18, 2010)

*unfortunately*

Our salt is $63/ton but the freight to where they are out is what kills us.
$115 IS FROM CHICAGO TO ST.LOUIS so it depends where you are or if you can pick it up.

The Co-Op is a good idea. If any of you want to discuss it we are one of the real salt companies not somebody who just jumped in the game. Been doing it 35 years! We only got into out in the mid-west 3 years ago when we started getting slammed with salt calls. Our claim to fame is we never run out!
We don't take on municipal business so we always have and don't need to cut people off because we have to satisfy a contract.
ussmileyflag


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

$115 delivered around Chicago? Or going from Chicago to STL?


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## alwaysgotit (Feb 18, 2010)

leon;1006553 said:


> The dreaded words of SALT ALLOCATION for contracted obligation tonnages plus the additonal 20 percent ceiling tonnages of their bid contracts strikes again.
> 
> The three remaining salt mines in the five Island chain in La. are having difficulty in delivering salt by barge due to either fewer barges being available or poor river conditions affecting delivery speeds.
> 
> ...


plus if I may, I hear many people voice the opinion of inflated prices and gouging. The truth is when the salt runs short as it has in the past and you can't use the river or it is needed now the only choice is to truck it from the east coast where the normal selling price here is between $64-$75/ton. Now add a $40-60-80/ton trucking bill it adds up. I do see and hear some people gouging but we do not....our profit margin stays the same but trucking is what it is. You all have had the luxery of low salt prices for years but the minute you start having to bring it in by ship to the east coast or NOLA.....it adds up quick!
And no we aren't doing it for free need to make something but it's not that much when you get all said and done.....like anything else! lolussmileyflag


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

In short, _this_ is why I constantly beat into people's heads that salt is very easy...when you treat it as a 12-month business, not a 4-month business.

/insanity


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## alwaysgotit (Feb 18, 2010)

chicago to st. louis $63/ton picked up in chicago


Westhardt Corp.;1006677 said:


> $115 delivered around Chicago? Or going from Chicago to STL?


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## alwaysgotit (Feb 18, 2010)

$115 is taking the salt from chicago to st. louis the salt is $63/ton picked up but the trucking kills ya and they are running short down there....it's spotty and I don't think winter is ending early this year???? So it could be whats to come....I have heard the big boys are cutting off here and there.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

Mick76;1006313 said:


> Heck, I ordered about 17 ton too much (Its still at Mortons but I'm on the hook for it).... anyone in Maine need some?


Don't feel bad. Last year I sat on 400 ton all summer.


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## jblatti13 (Jan 24, 2009)

alwaysgotit... what are your prices on bagged salt? best ive gotten so far is 3.50 50lb bag/pallet. also, where in chicago you located? downtown or a burb?


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

From what I can tell around here some of the big resale companies purchased more then normal this year to get a lower price and keep their supplies up. No offense Ed, but I think your company may have been one of them in PA that has excess inventory. I could be wrong though, so don't beat me over the head. I just know I have received some sales calls lately! Our local distributor American Rock Salt added 35,000 tons of storage this year and I still couldn't buy direct because of some of these resellers. What's 2 tri axles when your takling 150,000 tons of salt and 2500 tons off loaded everyday via rail car. Anyhow there is plenty of salt out there, you may just have to pay a few bucks more then you want to.


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## alwaysgotit (Feb 18, 2010)

*prices*

$3.50 bag is a good price, if they have a good supply I would stay where you are. Yes, we want to sell product but we do look out for the best interest of the customer so I'm not nuts telling u to stay just honest.....it's a good price and if the supply is trusted...stay where you are.
We are downtown Chicago at the Railroad terminal. 
ussmileyflag



jblatti13;1006855 said:


> alwaysgotit... what are your prices on bagged salt? best ive gotten so far is 3.50 50lb bag/pallet. also, where in chicago you located? downtown or a burb?


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## alwaysgotit (Feb 18, 2010)

We never over buy, there is no such thing. We have a year round supply because we do more than just ice melts....food grade, textiles,animal feed,water conditioning,blends,liquids,drilling, kidney machines, dye house, animal hydes.....there are many other uses for salt.
Oh our competitors have run short this year and are buying from us but that's our claim to fame ....you can find salt cheaper than us but they will let you down with supply sooner or later.....WE WON'T! It's a business decision to buy from us...a little extra money but security and stability of product is what you get in return. We have no contracts to worry about, we cater to the contractors and if you are not a normal customer and supply is tight we won't sell you because that would be taking a loyal customers product and selling it out from under them, we won't do that.
We have a 40,000/tonner arriving on Monday in Philly because we are getting low. Most companies wouldn't keep bringing product in but we do no matter what, we want plenty on hand....that's the job of a salt company to have it when needed. Got to remember we have salt piles and supply in 12 states from WI TO VA so we are a little different than the other smaller suppliers like American.
American has it but is limited due to contracts and then when winter is closing down they panic and try to sell.....we don't worry about it....for us salt sales is a year round business. I hear allot of things on this site from people who with all due respect to everyone.....don't know the salt business and what happens and why things happen they guess and assume but it's ok as long as when they say I need.....we got it for them! ussmileyflag

Monday QUOTE=lilweeds;1006885]From what I can tell around here some of the big resale companies purchased more then normal this year to get a lower price and keep their supplies up. No offense Ed, but I think your company may have been one of them in PA that has excess inventory. I could be wrong though, so don't beat me over the head. I just know I have received some sales calls lately! Our local distributor American Rock Salt added 35,000 tons of storage this year and I still couldn't buy direct because of some of these resellers. What's 2 tri axles when your takling 150,000 tons of salt and 2500 tons off loaded everyday via rail car. Anyhow there is plenty of salt out there, you may just have to pay a few bucks more then you want to.[/QUOTE]


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## ferdinand711 (Oct 25, 2006)

alwaysgotit;1007136 said:


> $3.50 bag is a good price, if they have a good supply I would stay where you are. Yes, we want to sell product but we do look out for the best interest of the customer so I'm not nuts telling u to stay just honest.....it's a good price and if the supply is trusted...stay where you are.
> We are downtown Chicago at the Railroad terminal.
> ussmileyflag


It always feels good when you are able to call somebody else's bluff


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## jblatti13 (Jan 24, 2009)

dont worry, no bluffing here. ill take a pic of the receipt and the pallet for you when i get another one this week. and honeslty i dont even pay 3.50... 

im not tryin to be a dic#, just asking what his price was. we all have our deals, and i found mine. dont tel me im full of it tho.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Westhardt Corp.;1006687 said:


> In short, _this_ is why I constantly beat into people's heads that salt is very easy...when you treat it as a 12-month business, not a 4-month business.
> 
> /insanity


Wouldn't it also help if large snow contractors and state DOT/local municipalities worked on a three year rolling average, plus a buffer? Say 20%?


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt shortage*



2COR517;1007818 said:


> Wouldn't it also help if large snow contractors and state DOT/local municipalities worked on a three year rolling average, plus a buffer? Say 20%?


==================================================================================================================================

It will never happen as the cooperation 
would be seen as price fixing by the FTC.

The other thing is the municipalites would not be cooperative 
in any case as they are ordained with maintaining the highways and 
roads and their specific needs plus 20 percent more than thier 
initial total tonnage

for every five tons they purchase the contracts guarantee one 
additional ton allocated for thier specific needs eliminating 
any possible drain of thier salt supplies.

essentially they are the holy spirit and anyone else is not even 
worth of apostle status as they are the only customer period.

And that is why this happens every year when the weather is 
bad and all the salt is gone. Any any salt they have left will 
be sold next year in most years.

They have Zero reason to even discuss any collaboration with any other 
entity because of their primary customer status and the responsibility
they have to deice the roads.

:waving::yow!:


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

I don't even need a wheeler load per season. I hope I get big enough to worry about this.........


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

I agree with Leon in that there will not be any cooperation between private contractors and governments in the foreseeable future, regardless of the FTC. Here in Illinois, we've had our share of pricing games, although "extensive" investigations by our Auditor General and Attorney General revealed several "flaws in the bidding process", but would not allege any outright collusion amongst suppliers. IMHO, something fishy happened here last year, but it's old news now.

Most contractors I know of (and every municipality & DOT) take into consideration their average usage when sending out RFQs. It's just common sense. But, the difference is that most contractors don't sign contracts with a 120% guarantee--because they don't want to take on the typical 80% purchase commitment.

Best bet is to try and secure a supplier that does not supply government, nor source their material from a mine that supplies government contracts. (not all suppliers own mines, I know--news flash! LOL)


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