# New Business Advice



## anz27 (Jan 21, 2014)

Hi All, 

I wanted to make this post to get some feedback. I am going to be as descriptive as possible so you all can make appropriate comments and suggestions. I apologize for the length.

Next year, I am considering opening the doors of a snow removal company. I graduate from the University of Pittsburgh in April with a degree in business. The reason I mention this so people know I not some uneducated bum that doesn’t know what the hell he is doing. I do not have a job currently lined up, but I am sure I will find something. I have worked several years in the industry and am decently knowledgeable about some aspects of the business. I am 22. 

I currently have a plow from another truck (Western 7’6” straight blade). It’s new and in great shape (still has original cutting edge) All I need is a truck and the mounting necessities. I will be purchasing a car or truck in the next few months, so if I am going to start the business I will just buy a truck and use that as my daily driver as well. I am thinking about buying a 1500 Silverado with a plow prep package, especially because it is my daily driver as well. I can always sell the truck in a few years when the business grows and becomes more demanding. I understand that this is not ideal, but considering the entire year, a 2500hd might be overkill since its only 7.5 ft. Should I go new or preowned (Late model, no more than 2-3yrs, 30k miles)? 

Assuming I have a job, what do you see the best way to get the business rolling? I will not work on the side for someone else. I want this business to grow so that I can get out on my own, then start some other businesses as well (Lets just leave that beast out of the discussion for the time being). THIS WILL ALL BE DONE LEGITIMATELY, TAXES PAID AND FULLY INSURED! (Unless you all suggest a better/different path). I know I will be limited on what jobs I can take due to limited work hours plowing (5p-5a) I understand that there is still a lot for me to learn, so please leave feedback IF you have experience. 

Thank you all for taking the time to read, as well as leaving feedback if you wish.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

For someone who is educated < that would be you >... educate yourself about 2500 / 3500 series trucks. A 2500 would not be overkill but the minimum you need.


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## anz27 (Jan 21, 2014)

thelettuceman;2111430 said:


> For someone who is educated < that would be you >... educate yourself about 2500 / 3500 series trucks. A 2500 would not be overkill but the minimum you need.


I know a lot about them. I also know that you do not need a 2500 for a small plow (I am pretty sure its a Western HTS, but not positive). Yes, 2500's are far more durable and robust, but lets not get wants and needs mixed up here.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

Gunna be hard to plow if you currently have a job with time constraints. Even if it just stops snowing as you get out of work it will still be a long night in the truck plowing and then back to your normal job. My advice would be to sub for someone else, that way 1) You can still make money with a truck and plow when it snows 2)You dont need to drum up said work, you just come and work. Alot less stress. And 3)If you cant plow because of your day job, then you simply cant. They will just have to make due without you, rather than you leaving YOUR own customers high and dry. 

As for the truck, nothing less than a 3/4 pickup if this is something you intend to get into and want to do more than a few driveways. 1/2 tons will work but they can get eaten up faster that is for sure.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

I would have to agree that the 3/4 ton is the minimum. When I was plowing for another company, not myself, he had a lot of different vehicles. Mine was a bronco with a 7.5 plow. The purpose of this vehicle was for me to hop around from lot to lot where the other crews were plowing and hit the spaces where cars were parked near and the bigger trucks couldn't get to. He had a brand new tranny in it for the season. I wasn't new and I knew what I was doing. I wasn't hard on the truck. Halfway through the season the transmission bell housing cracked in half in the Walmart parking lot we were plowing.

The moral of the story is you said this would be a daily driver. The tranny in a half ton is not built for that kind of work. You may lose your daily driver half way through the season and then what? How would you get to work, how would you service your contracts if you had no back up? 

In the snow removal business there is no 5 pm to 5 am. The only way to get customers is to be available to fill your contractual agreement at any time of the day. The snow does not care if you are working, and you may be liable for a slip trip injury if your not out plowing with the storm and doing what you are contracted to do. No one is going to buy plowing service for when the storm is over and I get off work I'll show up. Even if they did then you are going to destroy the half ton really fast because you didn't plow with the storm.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Since you do not have the truck already, I agree with everyone. Get a 3/4 ton and you will be happier in the long run for plowing snow. I would get a gas, they're easier to work on and cheaper to maintain. I understand that you want to use the plow you have already, but in the future the bigger truck will handle a bigger plow. I'm not sure how long the light duty plow will last with commercial plowing.

The reason companies hire snow and ice management business is because they know that the business they hire takes weather, and their job seriously. Trying to run a snow business and have a full time job is extremely difficult. What many guys (including myself) don't understand when they get into the business is you're working even when it's not snowing. You have to constantly watch the weather, you have to do site checks all the time, you have to do equipment maintenance, a ton of paperwork and invoices. The list could go on and on. If you decide to do this while also working a full time job, there is just no way you will be able to make your customers happy 100% of the time.

If I were you, I'd get a bigger truck (if not for now, for the future) get on as a sun for another company, and go from there. It doesn't only snow from 5-5. You are on call 24/7. Some days it will be only a few hours, others you could be out for days. I'm not telling you not to do this, but figure out every worst case scenario and have a solid business plan.

Good luck


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Always remember,your working on some else time not yours, they paying you to work for them .


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

anz27;2111408 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I wanted to make this post to get some feedback. I am going to be as descriptive as possible so you all can make appropriate comments and suggestions. I apologize for the length.
> 
> ...


What type of work are you planning to go after would be a good thing to know when it comes to the plow/truck combo. 
Assuming you looking at resi's a 7.5 with a 1/2t pickup is enough to get things rolling and probably work well for you if you stick with resi's. There's plenty of guys that started oot with smaller rigs and they served them well. Heck when SnowFakers first showed up on PS he was running a Ford Ranger with a 6'8" Meyer home plow (sorry but it is what it is) and has since gotten into a bigger rig. I would get a used truck with less than 50K on it, still plenty of life left in it and aboot 1/3 or less the cost of new.
With resi's you have a little more flexibility and can have a day job. Most resi's want the driveway cleared before they head oot to work and before the come home. When plowing and having a day job it about balance between the two. Since you have a limited window of time to plow and still go to your day job a tight route is a must and preferably on the way to and from the day job. I would target subdivisions with small driveways that you can knock oot in less than 10min (including some shoveling). Another good customer would be churches, lots are typically less than 1acre and their only concern is having the lot cleared for the day of worship and nights when they have activity's. I have a couple churches and they're great, during the week they're the last place that get's plowed. I would stay away for gas stations and anything retail, you also would see an increase in your G/L due to exposure for slip and falls. They'll also be to demanding and they won't work for you having a day job. I won't do gas stations or retail, for me it's not worth the headache.

In regards to setting up a legit business I would suggest setting up a LLC and a DBA for dealing with taxes. Make sure you have a minimum of a $1m G/L policy ($2m would be better) and have the truck is insured for commercial snow plowing. You're going to find a standalone G/L policy for snow removal is going to come at a premium. One way to reduce the cost of your G/L to have also do lawn-care in the summer or another type of service / contractor related business that you can add the plowing on to the policy. 
When it comes to the tax side of things talk to an account and insurance talk with your agent. Don't rely on people on a forum to give you advise for matters like this, it's you butt and you want to make sure it's covered.


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## anz27 (Jan 21, 2014)

Thanks everyone so far, especially BUFF for the insurance info.

Lets clarify a little more, vehicle options:
1) Brand New 1500
2) Used Newer 1500 ('13 and up) unless i find a smoking good deal on an older one
3) Brand New 2500HD gas job
4) Honda Civic (screw all the bs and go do something else)

I'm curious to see what we get on that one. I WILL NOT buy a used HD truck, I do not want someone else's headaches. So please let that go, it is non-negotiable.

Please keep in mind this is a part time gig for the time being. If I was able to make 10K profit, I would call that a great start. I know of people who work full time jobs and plow on the side. You just have to pick the right smaller commercial properties as well as resi's. I am trying to get away from being an employee, and becoming an employer. I do not want to make this a life long career, but doing it for some years to begin that journey is just fine with me. I live at home with my parents. I have a backup vehicle that I can use should anything happen. 

As for the lawn care stuff, I really do not want to get into that lifestyle. I by no means intend to offend anyone with this statement, so please don't take it personally. That is just a can of worms I really am trying not to open. I had my own properties I did in high school and it served me well, it is just time to move on to bigger and better things.

I don't mind doing snow removal, and I see significant opportunity there for my situation. I need to find some type of job, because like you all, I have bills to pay. That kind of eliminates doing this stuff full time starting this winter.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

Lawn care is below you but snow plowing is going to suit you better?


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

You are all over the map.. Not sure where to even begin


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## anz27 (Jan 21, 2014)

terrapro;2111583 said:


> Lawn care is below you but snow plowing is going to suit you better?


Not at all. Just do not want to do it for a living.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Seems like there's a new kid every week who's gong to get rich in snow removal. And find customers that will work around his part-time schedule. As stated above by someone else. What happens when your one and only truck breaks down, or your plow does? What happens with the customers then? What happens when it's snowing and you're obligated to be at your 40 hour a week job?


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## anz27 (Jan 21, 2014)

Harleyjeff;2111594 said:


> Seems like there's a new kid every week who's gong to get rich in snow removal. And find customers that will work around his part-time schedule. As stated above by someone else. What happens when your one and only truck breaks down, or your plow does? What happens with the customers then? What happens when it's snowing and you're obligated to be at your 40 hour a week job?


Not to start an argument, but how is $10k a year rich?


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Sorry you need to really think this over. You want to buy a brand new 30-60k truck to do plowing on the side? Good luck. You'd be much better off buying something used for cash. How happy will you be when it doesn't snow and you have to pay for way more truck then you need? Also mpg on 2500 is roughly half of half tons in my experience. 

Especially if your only doing this for a few years, no need to buy something you won't need. On the flip side a half ton just isn't going to cut it. 

As far as subbing goes-good luck. I run a few subs, it's either all in or not. Every year I have a few guys call me to ask for work around their work schedule, my answer is always "What am I supposed to do when it starts snowing 3" an hour right before your supposed to go to work?" And I always get the "gee I don't know" response.

To make it in snow, regardless of resi or commercial, the most basic necessities are Reliability, and quality. One can't go without the other.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Just get the Honda.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

The problem with what you want is it doesn't make since from a business standpoint. Like Beanz said above, you want to spend all this money on something part time. It will take you YEARS to pay everything off. If you're good with 10k you could get some guys and start a sidewalk crew. That's all I do and usually bring in more than 10k. Less equipment and less break downs. It's "full time" for me, but if it doesn't snow at all one year I'm not hurting too bad. It's more just extra to keep lights on and keep my main helper busy.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

You want to make a $10,000 PROFIT in a less then a 6 month season (usually), part time? For a business educated guy that's seems like quite a stretch. I made $900 this week, with 2 1"+/- events. My broom for my sweeper broke, had to have parts machined, etc. to fix cost me $500. My sub was out too, had to pay him $130. My insurance was due, there's $300. Granted that's not every week, but it's more typical then not. If you want to put $10K in your pocket, your going to have to earn double that, part time. Good luck.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

anz27;2111436 said:


> I know a lot about them. I also know that you do not need a 2500 for a small plow (I am pretty sure its a Western HTS, but not positive). Yes, 2500's are far more durable and robust, but lets not get wants and needs mixed up here.


2500's have better stickers............


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

option 4
_______


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

anz27;2111599 said:


> Not to start an argument, but how is $10k a year rich?


Hey man you got on here and asked a bunch of seasoned snow veterans for their opinion and advice. Seems like you were looking for answers to justify what you had already decided to do. Part time snow removal is really more for enthusiasts who already have a plow and like doing it so they answer craigslist adds and one time calls for big snowfalls. The reality is that you can't mold the industry to fit your needs. You need to mold your business around the industry. Sounds like you should just get the Honda Civic and come up with another idea to start your self employment journey that will work out part time and will have less overhead.

I don't know many guys who can make a 10k profit off snow. You would have to be a huge outfit. You just graduated business school so you should know the difference between profit and what you pay yourself. Profit is what is left over after you pay all overhead, equipment costs and maintenance, salaries including yourself Etc. once you pay all that the left over is profit for the company which can be used to give yourself a bonus, put away in a capital improvement account to buy more equipment, etc. there is no way you can make ten grand profit for your business doing part time snow with one guy.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

One nice thing in here is you will get honest answers even if you don't agree. I started with a 94 F150 heavy half ton with a 7.5 Myers and wings, I did nothing but sub for the first few years doing commercial props. and a few of my own residential accounts. That truck was gone through from top to bottom and maintained and I was gentle on it but it still took a beating and things didn't hold up for more than a year or two. In those few seasons it went through (plow related) 2 trannys, ball joints, axle joints, wheel hubs, plow issues. The 4th year I knew I wanted to do this on my own and start what I have now so I bought a new F250 with a v blade. Plow differences aside, the truck was night and day in it's ability to move snow! So I would just get a 3/4 ton to start with. As far as the other business related things, with a business degree I would think you'd have a grasp on it. One other observation, people say they are willing to wait to get plowed until they get stuck once, point being is that if your serious about plowing it has to be a full time job imho, if your not or can not commit just sub for someone.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

ktfbgb;2111698 said:


> Hey man you got on here and asked a bunch of seasoned snow veterans for their opinion and advice. Seems like you were looking for answers to justify what you had already decided to do. Part time snow removal is really more for enthusiasts who already have a plow and like doing it so they answer craigslist adds and one time calls for big snowfalls. The reality is that you can't mold the industry to fit your needs. You need to mold your business around the industry. Sounds like you should just get the Honda Civic and come up with another idea to start your self employment journey that will work out part time and will have less overhead.
> 
> I don't know many guys who can make a 10k profit off snow. You would have to be a huge outfit. You just graduated business school so you should know the difference between profit and what you pay yourself. Profit is what is left over after you pay all overhead, equipment costs and maintenance, salaries including yourself Etc. once you pay all that the left over is profit for the company which can be used to give yourself a bonus, put away in a capital improvement account to buy more equipment, etc. there is no way you can make ten grand profit for your business doing part time snow with one guy.


Well put Thumbs Up


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

And it's questions like these is why people call us all stuck up aholes here...how do you answer with out being one really? 
Sorry man although your ambition is refreshing your expectations overshoot the possibilities especially your first go around. But I wish you the best! That's the great thing about America, you can lose a million $ and still pull your boots on and go make some more.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Your without a job now. Get that figured out first. You may like what your doing and being college educated could bring you somewhere will you will not need or want to be plowing snow. It's the American dream to be self employed, Not always peaches and cream. When its good fine, When it's not so good it could be a struggle or finding yourself in debt.

You been educated about liability's, Taxes etc. above. I think I done, doing pretty good for myself as far as earnings go. With all that said my brother that choose to go to college to be a accountant will buy and sell me any day of the week. Your desire to plow snow is cool it's fun for a while but may possibly go away as it does most of us and enjoy it because of the earnings.

I like what I do because its the road I choose, Always remember hind sight. Your young yet you have not established a home or apartment yet for yourself and future family. Go slow and always use caution. I won't comment on your choice of truck. Buy the honda enjoy your youth, Find a good job, plow snow on the side when can for a contractor for extra cash and make your decision on self employment in a couple of years. O by the way in hindsight I would rather be clean warm and cool jumping in my Volvo to the office like my brother. Good luck you got a lot of time to get it right which ever road you choose.Thumbs Up :waving:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

terrapro;2111723 said:


> And it's questions like these is why people call us all stuck up aholes here...how do you answer with out being one really?


Well Cole..............I'm not really sure. Other than just not answer newbies' questions.

It's taken me several years and lots of conversations with the powers that be, but that is my only conclusion. So I try to help when I can and don't when I can't.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

ktfbgb;2111698 said:


> Hey man you got on here and asked a bunch of seasoned snow veterans for their opinion and advice. Seems like you were looking for answers to justify what you had already decided to do. Part time snow removal is really more for enthusiasts who already have a plow and like doing it so they answer craigslist adds and one time calls for big snowfalls. The reality is that you can't mold the industry to fit your needs. You need to mold your business around the industry. Sounds like you should just get the Honda Civic and come up with another idea to start your self employment journey that will work out part time and will have less overhead.
> 
> I don't know many guys who can make a 10k profit off snow. You would have to be a huge outfit. You just graduated business school so you should know the difference between profit and what you pay yourself. Profit is what is left over after you pay all overhead, equipment costs and maintenance, salaries including yourself Etc. once you pay all that the left over is profit for the company which can be used to give yourself a bonus, put away in a capital improvement account to buy more equipment, etc. there is no way you can make ten grand profit for your business doing part time snow with one guy.





BUFF;2111704 said:


> Well put Thumbs Up


x2 on the well put.

It appears you have made your mind up.

MY recommendation is the same of others. Get a real 9-5 job working for someone (this gives you your steady income and healthcare), buy a 3/4 ton truck, sub for someone, figure out the industry while subbing, build your equipment up and sub that equipment out, then make your move out on your own if you are in fact interested in going for it on your own.

Just my 2 cents. You will find that many of us did just that same thing. You will burn the candle at both ends to do this as when you are done plowing for the night, you need to go back to work the next day so that you don't loose your 9-5. It will be tough... but this is a tough industry you will find.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

Mark Oomkes;2111736 said:


> Well Cole..............I'm not really sure. Other than just not answer newbies' questions.
> 
> It's taken me several years and lots of conversations with the powers that be, but that is my only conclusion. So I try to help when I can and don't when I can't.



Right I actually like answering questions, it doesn't bother me much and I feel like I am honing my abilities in business. It is hard to not say that this is a rough business but it is the truth.

Here this is the best advice I can give you starting out brand new...

Starting a business is really 3 parts...
1. Financing- you need money to make money and this business is very expensive
2. Skill/planing- be really smart at what you do and have a back up for your backup
3. LUCK- it's who you know and/or who you are

Running a business is another 3 part thing, as my years in business grow these are nailed down more and more...
1. Finding customers/jobs
2. Doing the work
3. Actually getting paid for the work you did

As I wrote those out they just seem like they should be so easy but they really have been the hardest parts for me anyway.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Some of the earlier post my other members were encouraging and a few not so mulch. When the kid came back on more of the his story was told and the seasoned guys took exception to a few of the details, I know I did. 
Like Terra I liked the ambition shown in the his OP, but they were dismissed in following post. Who knows maybe some of the criticism that was giving provided a taste of reality that can be built from, if not Kay Sera Sera......


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

OP, option #2 is what I would recommend. The most important thing you can do , IMO, is take the extra money and buy a single stage snowblower and a couple shovels. At least in this area, no one want's to shovel, and you can charge as much for shoveling as plowing, while your truck simply idles. No matter what anyone on here tells you, you don't need a 2500/3500/F550/Unimog/Peterbilt to idle while you shovel or snow blow.

Being that you will soon have a business degree, I'd go out on a limb and say you already have a leg up on 90% of the lawn jockies that post here. If you're willing to bust your butt, go to your full time job with couple hours sleep a couple days a year, and take a little risk, I don't think $10K a year is unreasonable, although it may be hard to attain the first year.

Good Luck.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

jomama45;2111810 said:


> I don't think $10K a year is unreasonable, although it may be hard to attain the first year.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Maybe Billing but not profit.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JMHConstruction;2111663 said:


> The problem with what you want is it doesn't make since from a business standpoint. Like Beanz said above, you want to spend all this money on something part time. It will take you YEARS to pay everything off. If you're good with 10k you could get some guys and start a sidewalk crew. That's all I do and usually bring in more than 10k. Less equipment and less break downs. It's "full time" for me, but if it doesn't snow at all one year I'm not hurting too bad. It's more just extra to keep lights on and keep my main helper busy.


I feel like I misspoke, I didn't read your post correct. 10k profit will be almost impossible. I rarely make a profit from snow, it's more to help with overhead so I don't just spend the company savings for just sitting for a few months. The company USUALLY (not this year, or last year for that matter) makes enough to keep food on my workers tables, pay my monthly overhead including my salary, and get me by for the winter so I don't have to build in the crap weather. You will not profit 10k with 1 truck part time. For the most part it's something to do for the winter that keeps some cash rolling in.


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## anz27 (Jan 21, 2014)

10K in profit is a goal. Its better to fall short of a goal of 10k in profit than a goal of 3k in profit. If I go the blower route, expenses will be much less overall. This actually is not that bad of an idea.

JMGConstruction, you not making profit in the winter is a reflection of the business you run and you set up. Those are limitations that are created by you. I understand what you are saying. I bet if you truly and genuinely tried, you could make a handsome profit in the wintertime. It is not right to push off those assumptions and limitations to someone else.

Just to clarify, a truck is not just for plowing. I do a little work on the side in the summer as well as ride dirt bikes.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

anz27;2111883 said:


> 10K in profit is a goal. Its better to fall short of a goal of 10k in profit than a goal of 3k in profit.


How long is your snow season, what are the averages for the amount of snow per year, and how many plow able events per year?
How much will insurance coverage cost for G/L and Commercial coverage for your pickup? 
How much will your truck payments be, do you have budget for it?
Do you have a targeted amount for billable dollars per hour to cover expenses and a salary?
How much do you plan to accrue for truck/equipment repairs and maintenance? 
Remember you have to pay taxes on you're income, there's a lot of big government expenses to be paid for.
These are all common expenses in business.

To have a goal of $10K a season of *true* profit you need to be billing out much more than you can do as a part plow guy, $3K would be a stretch.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Why do you want to show a profit?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Doesn't sound like the business major has a business plain, or do you?

GV,
Business or hobby?
The IRS presumes that an activity is carried on for profit if it makes a profit during at least three of the last five tax years, including the current year.
an activity is not for profit, losses from that activity may not be used to offset other income. An activity produces a loss when related expenses exceed income. The limit on not-for-profit losses applies to individuals, partnerships, estates, trusts, and S corporations. It does not apply to corporations other than S corporations

https://www.irs.gov/uac/Business-or-Hobby?-Answer-Has-Implications-for-Deductions


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

grandview;2111935 said:


> Why do you want to show a profit?


There's fantasy and reality in business profits. Alot of people don't necessarily no what there operation expenses are. He will have no real profit for at least three years. I wonder who will throw me under the bus.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Well here is another case of what's wrong with today's youth. THEY HAVE NO CONCEPT OF MONEY and believe the unicorn factory garbage that Sanders and Clinton are trying to sell. I see several issues with your current situation. They are:

1) Unless you are fortunate enough to have parents that were able to send you to said school, I'm guessing you are up to your eyeballs in school loans like every other kid these days, so first off, you know that as soon as you get a job, you have to start paying on that.

2) No bank is going to finance you on a $500-$1000 a month new truck payment for the 3/4 ton truck YOU DO NEED FOR THIS WORK, so you can forget the new truck. At this point, it's a dream.

3) As was said by many others, this industry is FULL of people who make promises to customers about taking care of their property, but then don't. Don't be ONE OF THOSE CONTRACTORS. The snow and ice management industry is a full time job in itself. Customers hire you to A)make sure they can get out of the garage in the morning and back in at night when they come home, or B)make sure their commercial property is accessible and SAFE for their employees and customers. They could give a rats ass about any other job or customer you have. So when you don't show, because you're at your "real job" don't think that is going to fly, because it won't.

4) If I were hiring a sub, my first question to him/her would be what kind of/how old is your equipment? The second question will be are you reliable/will you show at the drop of a hat? Put yourself in my shoes. Why would I risk my company's reputation that I have SLAVED AWAY at building over the last 20 years, for a sub that may or may not show? The answer is.........I absolutely wouldn't. I can't go out and take on more contracts than I can handle on my own, so I hire a sub. That sub HAS TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THOSE ACCOUNTS, because I can't. If I could, I wouldn't need the sub.

At this point, I recommend that you do both yourself and the industry a favor and *BUY THE HONDA*.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

grandview;2111935 said:


> Why do you want to show a profit?


And a 10k profit at that.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

SnoFarmer;2111942 said:


> Doesn't sound like the business major has a business plain, or do you?
> 
> GV,
> Business or hobby?
> ...


In his case,he would be more of a hobby.


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## anz27 (Jan 21, 2014)

I guess we can end the thread here. Thanks for the input, I will take it all into consideration when it time to make the decision. Best of luck in the rest of your seasons!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

anz27;2111883 said:


> JMGConstruction, you not making profit in the winter is a reflection of the business you run and you set up. Those are limitations that are created by you. I understand what you are saying. I bet if you truly and genuinely tried, you could make a handsome profit in the wintertime. It is not right to push off those assumptions and limitations to someone else.


Yes, I have made the choice to keep the low overhead and not have all the equipment to gross more income. I've been doing snow removal with my own company for 6 years. In 3 of those years I've had a year with 3" of snow, last year with less than 14", and this year with around 5" (just ask Derek above). Unless you have all or most seasonal accounts, you can't make a good profit with that. With what I do (sidewalks) I cannot get seasonal as a sub. I make a good profit in the others months, but where I live unless you spend a TON of money on multiple equipment you're not going to see that. These are not assumptions they are fact.

How much do think your one truck will bring in? You also realize that profit does not include YOUR salary right, and that it's after you pay EVERYTHING. If you want to try and make a little extra money that's fine, but look into all the insurance, think about your truck payment no matter what you buy, figure in maintenance (even a new truck can have a break down), and figure any other costs that you'll have. Now after that, remember that you can't have a huge route, because what happens if you get a huge storm and have to work your full time job. If you do get a truck, let us know what profit numbers you bring in.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

anz27;2111996 said:


> *I guess we can end the thread here.* Thanks for the input, I will take it all into consideration when it time to make the decision. Best of luck in the rest of your seasons!


You should know better,you have been here long enough,dosen't end till we start talking about bird or njd locks it.But any ways, take what your spending now on stuff, ex, insurance,gas,so on, So take that with what you think you can make plowing then subtract that,are you even close to breaking even? I assume you know your current insurance doesn't cover plowing


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

anz27;2111996 said:


> I guess we can end the thread here. Thanks for the input, I will take it all into consideration when it time to make the decision. Best of luck in the rest of your seasons!


Why?
Becuse you didn't like the feed back?
Or that you will not be taking questions?
Or it's not the job that you thought it was?

It sounds good, ride a dirt bite all summer and plow with a Honda in the winter to pay the bills
Is not a realistic expection.

We haven't even started to go into the time and money required to acquire and retain customers.

so stick around maybe we can learn somthing from each other.


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## anz27 (Jan 21, 2014)

SnoFarmer;2112010 said:


> Why?
> Becuse you didn't like the feed back?
> Or that you will not be taking questions?
> Or it's not the job that you thought it was?
> ...


The Honda was a joke, meaning that I don't plow. You guys have all given good feedback, and there is no need to keep perpetuating the thread and going in circles. If i can't find something using the search, ill be sure to post it up and ask.

You boys sure do get on the edge of your chairs, and quick too.


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## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

anz27;2111996 said:


> I guess we can end the thread here. Thanks for the input, I will take it all into consideration when it time to make the decision. Best of luck in the rest of your seasons!


OK we will close this one out:waving:


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