# Sleep Policy in agreements?



## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

I have been out plowing for 36 hours before, not a big deal.

But with the one storm we had last year, we were out for about 4-5 days. Its unsafe, and we had to sleep some. Dose any of you guys have any thing in your agreements, where on big snow falls, you reserve the right to stop work to sleep?

Thanks


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

NO.

Take a snooze in the truck.If its snowing that bad they'll never know.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

I can't even imagine asking someone if they'd be fine if I slept while they get snowed in. That's crazy talk...


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

Maybe you can hire someone to work while you sleep.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

I don't write anything in, but when it gets to a point of unsafe (18+ hours), people need a break. Truck drivers can't go that long, at that point you are risking serious incidents (negligence on your part). You have to go sleep.
People understand when there's a blizzard. Even the city/county/state guys take a break.

I think as long as you didn't oversubscribe your truck. (i.e. you have 18 hours of work on a 2" storm), and you get a massive blizzard, that you start rotating people off to go and get some sleep at the 10 to 12 hour mark (5 to 6 hours) so that way you still have some coverage at all times.

None of this would I write down. People just want their lots cleared, they don't want to know how you or your company does it. 

If there is that much snow, no one is coming into work anyway. (except hospitals, etc)


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## Vaughn Schultz (Nov 18, 2004)

Find some els to help you, or learn to stay up


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

If you go home and have a shower and grab 3 hours sleep, you will be more productive when you wake and far make up for the 3 hours you missed. A lot of things seem to happen when your tired and if it's that bad, everwhere is a mess just not your places. Safety first IMO. When you get larger it's easier to rotate, then when your a one or two truck show.


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## snyps (Oct 20, 2005)

I think you just need to use some common sense with it, but have a plan before you get in that situation. I mean if you are that tired, and have to devise a plan.. Good luck.. Your brain will not want to make good decisions at that point.

During our october storm last year I wasn't home for 3 or 4 days, I forget how long exactly. I will tell you that I slept in my truck when I needed to, and had a second change of clothes that I would rotate at my parents house (They had a generator so they did laundry for me) and a quick shower twice a day. Everyone I worked with staggered breaks... it worked well, and all and all we got through it.. I remember after I got power back, I think I slept for a week.


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## dakotasrock (Mar 23, 2006)

sleep is overrated


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

Get out of the truck and shovel some walks. Get some excersise. Some fresh air! That'll wake you up.


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## ABES (Jun 10, 2007)

dakotasrock;417984 said:


> sleep is overrated


until you fall asleep at the wheel and kill somebody get sued and loose your business.


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

I pull all my trucks in ussally around 7-9 pm, then start over at 2-3 am. Let the guys take them home. We don't service any thing requireing service durring those times (bars, etc) people in this area are used to snow. Even most towns follow a similiar procedue here (cut back & only do main lines between those hours). There is no point to service a client so they can get stuck in the road.


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## TwistedMetal (Oct 11, 2007)

There is no point to service a client so they can get stuck in the road......good point RLM


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## AbsoluteH&L (Jan 5, 2006)

RLM;418638 said:


> ...people in this area are used to snow. Even most towns follow a similiar procedue here... There is no point to service a client so they can get stuck in the road.


Ohh So True!!! Sorry but your not going to find me sleeping in the bed of my truck.BBRRRRR!!! Last year we had a few good ones here. St pattys for one.  that was a PITA. I know we had worse snowfall than that, I just remember St pattys more. Lets just say I had other things planned that day.:crying:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;417967 said:


> If you go home and have a shower and grab 3 hours sleep, you will be more productive when you wake and far make up for the 3 hours you missed. A lot of things seem to happen when your tired and if it's that bad, everwhere is a mess just not your places. Safety first IMO. When you get larger it's easier to rotate, then when your a one or two truck show.


Amen. Well said.



RLM;418638 said:


> I pull all my trucks in ussally around 7-9 pm, then start over at 2-3 am. Let the guys take them home. We don't service any thing requireing service durring those times (bars, etc) people in this area are used to snow. Even most towns follow a similiar procedue here (cut back & only do main lines between those hours). There is no point to service a client so they can get stuck in the road.


Ditto. Well said.

36 hours is insane and stupid. I alluded to this in the other thread, but you are more of liability in your truck than someone slipping and falling in a parking lot from a naturally occuring condition while you got a quick nap.

Legally, you are only allowed 11 hours of driving time, 14 hours overall in a non-CDL vehicle, that is for any commercial vehicle, and yes, if you are driving a pickup with a plow, it is a commercial vehicle, like it or not.

If you have sites that require 24/7 care, then you better have someone to help you out. Otherwise, people need to figure out that it has been snowing for a few thousand years, and they can live with it while you're sleeping for a couple hours. Some of you guys act like your customers won't be able to live if there's 2" of snow on their driveways. Educate them and be safe.


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## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

I agree that we need to sleep, I just wanted some input on how you guys played the sleep game. 

I run 2 Pickups and a Dump. Most of our clients understand, but you always get a few PITA's that dont think you need sleep. 

We service a few old folk's homes that want service 24/7 in case something happens. 

If we stop at 8:30p and Go back out at 2a. thats 5.5 hours.

By the time you Pull the trucks in so they can melt off, Go in Shower Eat and wine-down, there an 1- 1.5 so you only get 4.5 hrs at the most and your back at it. 

Some times it just dosen't seem like you get much sleep at times. 

But I love snow payup payup :waving:


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## topdj (Oct 6, 2007)

ya Id have to get home and get some sleep ? problem is I have a hard time if the wife is there


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## jhook (Jan 24, 2004)

Sleep? That is what summer is for  

Firstly, I make a point of making sure that I get various kinds of work so I have some that gets done early and some during the day. I like to have at least one extra truck sitting around ready to go. I have one or two buddies that can help out if needed but mostly just me and my main guy are out there. Average shift is about 18 hrs, have been into the 30's a couple of times. We sleep in the trucks (ext cabs) for a few hours now and then but I have been doing this for 15 years and can pull off a 22-24 hr shift easily. Average night's sleep for me is about 4 hrs in the winter. Plow, sleep a bit, plow more, sleep a bit, sanding, sleep a bit, check plowing, sleep a - oh crap it snowed again. Repeat


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

I find one of that hardest things is waiting to go out, you know it is going to snow and so you cant get to sleep because your like a kid waiting to get out there... are we there yet are we there yet. My dad and I and we have 2 hired hands. We take turns calling the shots. So we know its going to snow and we will have to go out I hit the hay and he calls me, that way I am well rested and once we get going if its running long then he goes for some sleep and I keep going. We find it works otherwise we are both on the edge of our seats waiting to go and no one gets any rest before. One of the best things we ever did was pay the girls at the drive thru 24 hour coffee, to call us if it starts snowing. One incase anything ever happened we get that call no matter if we are already out and 2 we usually head to grab a coffee anyways. Last year we both had to be out of town for an event and it was sappose to snow(lake effect town), so we rigged up a webcam shooting out the window, with a ruler screwed to a board, that I could log into from the laptop and see. We had to leave the event to come plow but it was such an awesome idea.


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## jhook (Jan 24, 2004)

MIDTOWNPC;423309 said:


> One of the best things we ever did was pay the girls at the drive thru 24 hour coffee, to call us if it starts snowing.


Now that is clever.

I like the webcam thing too, have thought of it myself but never put it together. I live about 20 minutes away from the city where we plow and the weather is not always the same. Sometimes I am late getting in because didn't snow at my house and other times, I go peeling in and call the guys just to find there is no work :crying:


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

just go to logmein.com and set yourself up a free account, its remote access software
you can then log into any computer that you have registered as long as the computer is online and you are at a computer with internet. 

I can log into my security system from any computer with internet, I can check cameras and It records all the time. 

It so good the other day I caught a squirel trying to ram nuts in my outside camera shelter.

I have read studys in the paper about drivng while tired and they say in the second that you close your eyes, you travel soething like 300ft on the road. SCARY


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## streetsurfin' (Jan 22, 2004)

MIDTOWNPC;423331 said:


> I have read studys in the paper about drivng while tired and they say in the second that you close your eyes, you travel soething like 300ft on the road. SCARY


 Maybe in a plane. That's 204 miles an hour.


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## tsmith (Sep 19, 2006)

I would go with the thought of get some sleep. Haven't had the problem from plowing, but I used to be up at all hours and not getting enough sleep. Then one morning I fell asleep on the way to work on a curve and hit a deputy sheriff's car, he was slightly injured, and the car was totaled. Not worth it, get some sleep, or like was mentioned pull over and do something if needed. Just my lesson learned the hard way.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

streetsurfin';423407 said:



> Maybe in a plane. That's 204 miles an hour.


you get my drift. you do that first knod off and realise you are not safe and you have moved a huge distance.

what you cant plow at 205 miles an hour... lol No need for salt just turn the after burners on and melt the snow.


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## streetsurfin' (Jan 22, 2004)

MIDTOWNPC;423514 said:


> you get my drift. you do that first knod off and realise you are not safe and you have moved a huge distance.
> 
> what you cant plow at 205 miles an hour... lol No need for salt just turn the after burners on and melt the snow.


I do get your drift, just adding some humor-no offense. Nodding off at the wheel is serious and I shouldn't joke. Having had problems with low blood sugar at one time in my life, I had to learn ways to combat it foodwise. I also found that tightening the stomach muscles will supply more blood to the brain and help fight fatigue long enough to get pulled off the road safely.


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## Cassy (Aug 10, 2006)

are you serious?

work your schedule so you can get a few hours in there somewhere.

thats all you need.

mention it in your contract if you want, but....


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

I have gone 40 hours one time and I just kept getting second winds. I would never want to do it again, but towards the end I started hitting those snow drifts a little harder.Getting a little tired. But last year we had a couple of nice storms and I would go for about 18 hours or so for 4 or 5 days straight and then come in for at least 4 to shower and grab a quick nap. I would wake up sick sometimes do to the lack of sleep, but once you start going and realize all the Money you are making, you tough it out and when it is over you get to sit around in front of the fire and sleep until it snows again.It can get dangerous,but I trust my driving after 24 hours straight of plowing more then I do of 90% of the people who are driving to work ill tell you that.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

*Contract clause for sleep?*

Sounds too much like you aren't a "git-r-done" company if you have a sleep clause in print -even if you promote the safety aspect. You are providing an EMERGENCY service. Somehow there is always a fireman ready to go when there's a fire, ya' know? Trucks don't need sleep but people do, so at the very least, set your cell phone alarm and take a 40 min power nap. If you can't fill a second or third shift if the big one hits, then don't sell the work. Generally, if DOT, County, or Muni trucks are pulled off the roads, your customers will cut you a break -especially if it made the news (and what doesn't?). We roll no matter what.


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## elshauno (Apr 14, 2007)

I learned in a firefighter safety seminary that going staying up for 12 extra hours over your normal sleep schedule is the equivalent to having a .08 blood alcohol level. After 18 hours its equivalent to having a .16 Blood Alcohol level. That being said it is highly irresponsible to not take sleep breaks or as we call then safety naps. President Kennedy would sleep only 2 to 4 hours a night and take 20 minute cat naps every 4 hours or so. Going low on sleep can be done just make sure you do it responsibly


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## YardMedic (Nov 29, 2006)

elshauno;434426 said:


> President Kennedy would sleep only 2 to 4 hours a night and take 20 minute cat naps every 4 hours or so. Going low on sleep can be done just make sure you do it responsibly


Worked out well for Kennedy, didn't it?!? :salute:


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## mnormington (Dec 18, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;418656 said:


> Legally, you are only allowed 11 hours of driving time, 14 hours overall in a non-CDL vehicle, that is for any commercial vehicle, and yes, if you are driving a pickup with a plow, it is a commercial vehicle, like it or not.


I knew there were rules for a CDL driver, but this is news (of the good variety) to me. I'll keep that in my back pocket for future use. Thanks, Mark!


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## ahoron (Jan 22, 2007)

Just take a short nap in your truck.Set your cell phone alarm or have a co-worker wake you in 20-30 minutes. if you are that tired you can sleep anywhere. I have slept on a metal set of stairs outside in december.


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## cod8825 (Feb 8, 2007)

After 18 hours I will usually call my wife at home and tell her to give me a call at .... time so that I can get a short nap in no less than one hour.


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## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

I plan ahead- because I have school @7:45 AM and I have a 4 hour route that has to be done before school (clients can get out in the AM for work- one of my biggest selling points is having their drive clear by 7:30AM ) I will go to sleep at like 6PM the night before and wake up around 2AM, have something to eat and be plowing my around 3AM- leaves me a little extra time and I've gotten a full nights sleep! If I don't have school, the fun continues all day!payup


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

*I POWER NAP AT RED LIGHTS TRAVELING JOB TO JOB IF IT GETS THAT BAD*


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

nickplowing1972;499092 said:


> *I POWER NAP AT RED LIGHTS TRAVELING JOB TO JOB IF IT GETS THAT BAD*


The funny thing is when you wake up, you wonder how many light cycles you were actually there for.


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## dakotasrock (Mar 23, 2006)

I just saw a commercial on tv.... except i think its a little extreme. They said driving while being up for 8 hours is like driving .08.

if thats correct, i've driven close to .90... legally dead. lol.
Good old march storm last year. Up from tues to sat morning with prob 5-10 hours of naps in between.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

I know we are new and the only experience I have on a major snow fall was in December when the heavens decided to drop 2 feet of snow in a night..... but contracts state that first of all we will NOT plow in blizzard conditions. We do not service any 24 hour businesses or emergency services and therefore I will not risk the safety of my drivers or workers in driving conditions are unsafe. Not to say we wont go out when its snowing... but if it is white out conditions we wont work until it clears. As for sleep.... we work up to 16 hour shifts at which point drivers and workers get a 3 hour break (more if we can afford the time) Again I dont want to risk the safety of our workers, the safety of fellow motorists or my equipment.

We are only a small company still and we also try to stagger our trucks a bit. So that they go out in 1-2 hour increments so that break time is limited but it still happens.

As said previously ... if its that bad in your driveway... where are you in a hurry to go? To get stuck down the street or at Timmies????

Just my 2 cents...


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## plowman4life (Jan 16, 2008)

ABES;418078 said:


> until you fall asleep at the wheel and kill somebody get sued and loose your business.


thats exactly what i was thinking.

idk how big your company is. but when we get into storms like that you have to rotate your guys to go and sleep. the shower isnt a big deal but the sleep is a priority. if you dont get sleep you can have some big problems. for us its imparative. b/c we plow a hospital and if it were to snow for 4-5 days straight we would be there 4-5 days. after 18hrs your body doesnt function well. we start to rotate guys at dark. if we start at 2 am the first guys out will go to bed when they are ready. but with us they go back to the garage and sleep we have beds in the break room for it so it works out nice b/c the garage is only 5 min from our main accounts.

but the last thing we need is on of our guys falling asleep and crashing into the hospital and ambulace or someone. or even into another one of our guys. its just not safe.


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Now that we have all told a war story or two lets try to answer the Q.

Yes, I have something in my contract about times, BUT NOT about Sleeping. REads like this....

*All reasonable attempts shall be made to clear snow at the direction of the CLIENT, when reasonable and as weather conditions permit. On going snowfall during normal business hours will be plowed from access and egress when reasonable and as weather permits. CONTRACTOR to have all plowing and shoveling operations completed 6 to 8 hours after snow has stopped falling when snowfall is 4" or less. CONTRACTOR shall have all plowing and shoveling operations completed 8 to 10 hours after snow has stopped falling when snowfall is between 4" to 8". Winter Storms (in excess of 8" snowfall) and extreme icing conditions will be handled to the best of the capabilities of the CONTRACTOR'S employees and equipment.*

So for WINTER STORMS which is waht the weather service is going to call a heavy snow fall, of over 8" and that is for our area, yours might read differently, we will service accounts to the CAPABILITIES of the CONTACTOR'S "EMPLOYEES" and "EQUIPMENT".

No one expects to have drivers in trucks for 18+ hours, although we have all done it at one time or another. I put this in the contract for the exact reason someone asked. It is unrealistic to think a company can operate endlessly. In our market over 8" snow falls are uncommon so I would not have any reason to assign more than one driver to a truck for a rotation type thing. I do have a truck in reserve to come in an help out during a big event. My drivers know, if they need to stop the truck for a hour nap or so than do so. I would rather be safe, not have my drvier crash my truck, damage property, hurt himself, the shoveler riding in the truck with him, or someone else on the road just to "GETTER DONE" thinking.

So when a client asks, what does this portion of the contract me I tell them we are professional and conduct ourself as such. That means we are human and we might need to get some sleep. If they a truck in there lot for 24 hours non stop and will be glad to hire three people for 8 hours shifts at a T&M rate from yard to yard. I will even bring in food and fuel so the truck will never leave the proprty for days. They get the point and seem to understand we will do all we can WHEN we can.

Also notice the word "Reasonable" is used several times. I think if you own a truck and pay a driver to plow with it and then tell that driver to plow for 18hours and he hits a pole and kills himself a jury or judge it not going to think it was "reasonable" to ask the employee to do that and you should be liable for the Wrongfull Death of that driver and your arse should be locked up for demanding him to do so. That same applies to your happy arse when you crash the mom/school teacher on the way to work because you were so greedy you did not want to park your truck for a couple of hours and plowed 24hrs non-stop until you crashed and kill the school teacher.

Hope that helps someone that is looking to add something to their contract that shows you have aleast consider an action plan in response to the big one. BTW, that inserted text is from a corp, Atty. that was paid for verbaige that was defensable.

Ron G.


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

I don't like sleep for some reason..

A few years ago I had gone as long as 8 days with no sleep, never once even felt tired, but I was working the whole time..

These days, I can easily make it to 4-5 days when needed. I love what I do, maybe thats the reason for why I can do it.

To get back to your question. When we get big snows, I scale down on the number of trucks on the road at one time, and break the guys up into 2- 12hr shifts.. That way there are always guys out working, but the routes take alittle longer.

Works out well. I stay out for the whole storm though


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