# Bid help



## phillie (Aug 24, 2010)

I figure it's time to man up and risk getting my head bit off on here. I have my biggest bid coming up and could use some help. Here we have an average of 27" a year with 7 or 8 events, last year 0! The lot including the long entrances is 6.24 acres. The sidewalks have a ridiculous 31,148 sqft. The walks do not include along the road or long entrances. All of my other contracts have their employees clear the walks, so I am not sure on pricing them or what equipment I should use on something this big. I have 2 F250's with boss 8.2 v blades. I am debating on subbing the salt out or buying vbox spreaders as I just have tailgate spreaders now. My price on a 2" snow for the lots only is around $680. What do you think about that price and any suggestions on sidewalk pricing and equipment would be awesome. Thanks guys.


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## phillie (Aug 24, 2010)

Really? Nothing from anybody? I read a thread yesterday were a new guy just asked "how much should I bid total?". He didnt have any info up and finally put a pic up after awhile. Point is Im at least trying to give as much info as I can and cant get help. There is a nice pretty picture and some info here...Am I missing other info that would help or something?


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## bossman34 (Aug 15, 2011)

Yea, i am surprised no one has chimmed in here, the trucks should be able to handle it fine for the amount of snow you get. If it were me I would want 4 wheelers with a plow for the side walks, you arent going to want to shovel or snow blow that! There could be some big money spreading salt at 2 bucks a pound bulk at 500 to a 1000 lbs for that much area, would be worth the spreader... If it snows...
As far as price. I dont think I would want to put an overal inch price on that much area, what are you charging at an hourly rate.. truck rate, salting rate, 4 wheeler rate. such as 65.00-truck, 95.00-salting plus salt, 45.00-4wheeler. You could calculate how many hours it would take to give a close emst. or a firm price depending on how you want to present it. Those prices are just examples but at 65.00, 680 would be a little over 10 hours worth. I price most of my accounts like that. I just work out how much I want to make per hour, determine the job length and wala. I know some people are Nazi like with there bidding, I like to keep it simple...


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## phillie (Aug 24, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. I try and get between 100-120/hr because my subs make 55-65hr. I figure this job would take 3 hrs of pushing with both trucks. I agree with not wanting to shovel that much area but I dont have the means for a 4 wheeler. I could possibly sub a friend with a small truck/plow for the wide open walkways and shovel the broken up parts. I was also thinking that it would take about 2800 lbs of salt lot and sidewalks included. 2800lbs would be 400 lbs per acre or about 10lbs per k. Im just not trying to lose money or low ball, I am also bidding on the mowing, mulching, fert/squirt, and pruning.


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## bossman34 (Aug 15, 2011)

i guess 680 isnt far off at 120 per hour times 2 trucks, which is 720. You will put a salting charge on top of that?? How much do you have to pay someone to shovel, or are you doing that? If you are going to continue doing accounts with that much sidewalk you may want to try and find an economical 4 wheeler, really save you tons of time and you wont have to deal with shoveling... But I understand that we cant always get what we want.. I have no idea on how to charge for sidewalks, never had to deal with them. I lived at an apartment complex that there contractor plowed all around the building and sidewalks with 4 wheelers and it didnt take them very long at all. The 3 hours, was that at 2 inches? How long do you think it would take at 6 inches.. My largest account is about an acre, so I am by no means an expert in bidding large accounts, I just felt you deserved the best answer I had.. :waving:


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## phillie (Aug 24, 2010)

Well thanks, at least someones trying. $680 is more towards $113/hr but I figured in a slight discount since it is a bigger property. At 6" Im thinking it would take 4 to 4.5 hrs. A 4 wheeler would be great but at this time I dont have any other sidewalk work. I couldnt really tell you how long it would take to clear this many walks as I dont even have the equipment for it yet. Me and a sub will be doing the walks.


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## bossman34 (Aug 15, 2011)

Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of what your doing, I would agree with you. I wish you the best!


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## JT SNOW (Apr 20, 2009)

How many salting events did you have last year???....I can't give you a price due to the fact i don't know what your costs and overhead....I will give you a hint...I would Never sub out the salt on a lot that size or any size for that matter....You salt 15-20 times a year in Indy...Maybe a few more, maybe a few less....You do the math...


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## phillie (Aug 24, 2010)

JT SNOW;1500150 said:


> How many salting events did you have last year???....I can't give you a price due to the fact i don't know what your costs and overhead....I will give you a hint...I would Never sub out the salt on a lot that size or any size for that matter....You salt 15-20 times a year in Indy...Maybe a few more, maybe a few less....You do the math...


Last year we maybe salted 3 times and plowed 0, it was a crap year. I am not really worried about pricing the salt, I have an idea of what I want to make on it. I am more trying to figure out the sidewalk work. Like I said, I dont have equipment for it yet so I am looking for recommendations on that and a price with that equipment. I was actually thinking of a riding mower with a blade on it but still dont know how long it would take.


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## JT SNOW (Apr 20, 2009)

phillie;1500178 said:


> Last year we maybe salted 3 times and plowed 0, it was a crap year. I am not really worried about pricing the salt, I have an idea of what I want to make on it. I am more trying to figure out the sidewalk work. Like I said, I dont have equipment for it yet so I am looking for recommendations on that and a price with that equipment. I was actually thinking of a riding mower with a blade on it but still dont know how long it would take.


Why would you Not be worried about pricing the salt....I find it really hard to believe their were only 3 salting events in Indy last year.....

You are over looking the largest money maker on this site....Salting, second would be the walks and third is the plowing....

Whats the going rate for salting in Indy....That site is in the 3 Ton range for salting...What would you charge for this site for salting ......Im just curious


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## phillie (Aug 24, 2010)

JT SNOW;1500196 said:


> Why would you Not be worried about pricing the salt....I find it really hard to believe their were only 3 salting events in Indy last year.....
> 
> You are over looking the largest money maker on this site....Salting, second would be the walks and third is the plowing....
> 
> Whats the going rate for salting in Indy....That site is in the 3 Ton range for salting...What would you charge for this site for salting ......Im just curious


Your right, it was 5 times, my bad. It was a warm dry winter here, we didnt break 2 inch snowfall in 1 storm. Im not worried about the salting because I have a price that I want for salting it but would need upgraded equipment. If I cant get the equipment then I would sub it out and make 10%, as tailgate spreading would be a huge hassle. Your thinking 3 tons? I was thinking that on a high end but around half that on a low end. Your talking about a difference between 400 and 850 lbs per acre. I am planning on splitting that number multiplying by what I want per pound. On a low end Im making out better but on the high end Im still making money just not as much. I have my price for salt and push depending on either way I go. I do not have a clue on how long the sideways will take or the most economical way of clearing them. Any ideas on that?


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## turfcarelawns (Dec 27, 2010)

On that much square footage it should take you roughly 13 man hours to blow the walks. We do a lot of walkways around here, and most of them are rather large. If the cost of a 4 wheeler and blade is out of the question you could always get a lawn tractor minus the deck and throw a blade on that. Those are always for sale and very cheap. I would never sub out walks, that is one of our biggest profits during the winter. It may not be the smartest choice but if cash is tight you could always add blades to your lawn maintenance equipment until you have the cash for proper snow equipment. I just thought I would help you out on the walks, you're looking anywhere from 420 to 500 for the walks.


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## JT SNOW (Apr 20, 2009)

In the RFB do the walks require ice melt????....



Its good advice above about the walks.......




Also...if you bid this site on bag ice melt price verses bulk pricing you will be out in left field on your price.....payup


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## phillie (Aug 24, 2010)

Oh I wasnt planning on subbing clearing the walks. I may have to sub the salting for the lot not the walks. I really dont want to sub any of it out. Like JT said, if I bid this with the salting equipment I have I would be laughed at. I do appreciate how long you think it would take. 13 hrs, is that by hand or what?


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## ryde307 (Dec 3, 2009)

This is a cut and paste from SIMA's site for sidewalk production rates. It can help get you started.

SIDEWALK CLEARING PRODUCTION RATES


Hand Shoveling
1 Hour = 1600 sq ft of production per hour

Snow Blower
1 Hour = 5000 sq ft of production per hour

SNOW BLOWER PRODUCTION RATES

Snow Blower Toro CCR 2000 20”

Snow Depth Square Feet Cleared per hour

2” 5,000 sq ft

4” 3,000 sq ft

6” 2,000 sq ft


SHOVELING BY HAND W/ PUSHER SHOVEL

Snow Depth Square Feet Cleared per hour

2” 1600 sq ft

4” 1200 sq ft

6” 1000 sq ft


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## phillie (Aug 24, 2010)

Ya, that does help alot. Thanks


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