# Tractor vs truck time ?



## Marek (Nov 16, 2005)

Looking at adding a few large tractors . The current owner has 12' plows on them . I feel a 12 - 14' box would be faster in larger lots . How would you compare thier speed and efficancy to a truck with a 9' plow ? Its rare for us to get a large snow so here it wouldnt be for power.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

I have a 11' Coats w/side boards on a 7740 4wd Ford tractor most time it dont get used until we get 6'' + snow 
Trucks are so much faster going to each place uder 6'' 
If snow 6'' plus The tractor can move lots of snow short period of time but is little slower going to each job but makes it up on the job


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## Marek (Nov 16, 2005)

these would all stay with in 2 miles of each other on large and med size commercial lots


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## viper881 (Jan 14, 2009)

How long are the pushes? Are you mech. inclined with tractors incase of a break down of some kind. Really depends on the parking lots, 12ft pushs more snow then a 9 ft blade. But a truck can reverse quicker. I guess you have to compare pricing if your buying new or used if you have to buy blades for a truck or a pusher for some tractors.


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## Marek (Nov 16, 2005)

These are units we are looking at and they currently run 12'ers on them and we will charge the Brickman rate of 285 an hr for them . Both are over 110 hp . Pushes are 400 - 700 ft each


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

Anything with a 12' pusher is going to outwork a truck with a 9' blade, that's a no brainer. Go for it and enjoy having more productive equipment!


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## Marek (Nov 16, 2005)

Its only productive equipment if we get snow and we are under 2" this season and 2 "last for our plow area. But we have had nine salt events this year which is a big help but it just eats up the trucks


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

viper881;1600090 said:


> How long are the pushes? Are you mech. inclined with tractors incase of a break down of some kind. Really depends on the parking lots, 12ft pushs more snow then a 9 ft blade. But a truck can reverse quicker. I guess you have to compare pricing if your buying new or used if you have to buy blades for a truck or a pusher for some tractors.


Not sure what tractors your driving but all of mine will back up faster then you have the balls to drive them. A 100 pto hp late model farm tractor will at minimum will plow double a pickup in basically any condition. Keep adding snow and longer pushes and that goes up 3-4 times. If all if your work is within 2 miles its a no brainer.


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## CDC8002 (Oct 5, 2009)

We run a 160 HP Case IH Puma at a large Dairy Plant with a 12' pusher. Last year we ran a N.H.555 TLB. Wasn't sure in the beginning of the season if it was a good idea but my operator doesn't want the Backhoe back. He has shaved a Hour and a half off his plow time with a 6" snow fall. Only down fall is pushing up piles. Has plenty enough hydralic power just that the loader arms aren't made heavy enough for busting into hard heavy snow piles. Have seen guys bend the **** out of them. We bring the loader or backhoe for that part of the job when needed.
We also have a Kubota 42 HP tractor with a 10' pusher. The thing will push a full box plus. We put a plate on it and my partner runs it all over town plowing. He wants to buy anouther one because it's so much faster than his F350 with a 8.5" Fisher V. His route is about 5 miles. It's as fast backing up as a pickup and visability is much better.


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## hatefulmechanic (Dec 27, 2012)

viper881;1600090 said:


> How long are the pushes? Are you mech. inclined with tractors incase of a break down of some kind. Really depends on the parking lots, 12ft pushs more snow then a 9 ft blade. But a truck can reverse quicker. I guess you have to compare pricing if your buying new or used if you have to buy blades for a truck or a pusher for some tractors.


You must be talking about an old Ford 3000, cause everything on the market now, even 10 years old, is typically a shuttle shift that goes the same speed forward that it does in reverse.

Not much scarier than backing one up at 23mph


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

JD Dave;1600307 said:


> Not sure what tractors your driving but all of mine will back up faster then you have the balls to drive them. A 100 pto hp late model farm tractor will at minimum will plow double a pickup in basically any condition. Keep adding snow and longer pushes and that goes up 3-4 times. If all if your work is within 2 miles its a no brainer.


Listen to this guy, he knows what he is talking aboot for once.

I have a truck with an Ebling 16' and Blizzard 8611LP and a JD 5101 with a 16' Ebling and standard 8611. So basically the same setup.

The tractor will outplow the truck day in and day out, with me running the truck, and I have just a little bit of experience. The tractor will double the productivity of the truck, with the exact same plow setup.

And if you're backing up that much, you're doing something wrong. Because you're losing money with the plows up in the air.


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## Marek (Nov 16, 2005)

Would you tractor guys run a 12 or 14 ' on a 140 hp tractor ? Units have loaders but I lean more towards frame mounted boxes. Loader arms are to expensive to mess up


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Marek;1602349 said:


> Would you tractor guys run a 12 or 14 ' on a 140 hp tractor ? Units have loaders but I lean more towards frame mounted boxes. Loader arms are to expensive to mess up


What they weigh is more important and what kind and size of loader. I also talk Pto hp. We've been running 14 ft pushers on 2 JD 746 loaders for 9 years and havn't bent them but they're are heavy loaders. The tractors weigh I'm guessing 16,000 lbs plus. A 12,000 lb tractor will have trouble pushing a 14ft pusher in some conditions. Also 12ft will fit almost anywhere and be able to work on its own where we always run a 12ft with our 14's so they can get the narrow spots.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

dfd9;1600473 said:


> Listen to this guy, he knows what he is talking aboot for once.
> 
> I have a truck with an Ebling 16' and Blizzard 8611LP and a JD 5101 with a 16' Ebling and standard 8611. So basically the same setup.
> 
> ...


One thing with a tractor You can zero turn it and plow the other way if parking lot setup right

I have rear hydro blade. I can swing it to one side and as I back up I can windrow as I'm backing up

Bad thing about a tractor its to comfortable . I stay awake better in a truck vs tractor


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## DodgeRam1985 (Nov 30, 2006)

I don't think you can really go wrong with adding a tractor to your arsenal. I would however suggest a couple of things. 

First, is this tractor going to be devoted solely to snow removal? If so, your horsepower range is going to be ok. But if you are thinking of expanding it's use out some, consider something slightly bigger in the 160-180hp range. Trust me, you will only be mad and dissapointed when you go to run something and your hydraulics aren't adequate or your simply need more hp's.

Second, you are dead on accurate when you talk about loader arms not taking much abuse, if you use them to ram snow banks, or pound down with the bucket, you surely are going to bend or break them (although chances are you are going to blow a hydro line or fitting first). My suggestion is to bypass the manufacturer's loader system, and instead work with a local machine shop (preferably one that specializes in agricultural equipment) and have one fabricated. All of my loaders (JD4250 and JD8200) have been custom built. Not only is the steel of higher quality, they are also heavily built. Now I still have had them bent and busted, but far less times then the guys running JD's loader system. The main down side to this method though, is that you lose any of the quick attach systems that JD has out right now. This can be overcome, but basically in my situation I needed the loader only, I didn't need bale forks or anything like that.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

DodgeRam1985;1602835 said:


> I don't think you can really go wrong with adding a tractor to your arsenal. I would however suggest a couple of things.
> 
> First, is this tractor going to be devoted solely to snow removal? If so, your horsepower range is going to be ok. But if you are thinking of expanding it's use out some, consider something slightly bigger in the 160-180hp range. Trust me, you will only be mad and dissapointed when you go to run something and your hydraulics aren't adequate or your simply need more hp's.
> 
> Second, you are dead on accurate when you talk about loader arms not taking much abuse, if you use them to ram snow banks, or pound down with the bucket, you surely are going to bend or break them (although chances are you are going to blow a hydro line or fitting first). My suggestion is to bypass the manufacturer's loader system, and instead work with a local machine shop (preferably one that specializes in agricultural equipment) and have one fabricated. All of my loaders (JD4250 and JD8200) have been custom built. Not only is the steel of higher quality, they are also heavily built. Now I still have had them bent and busted, but far less times then the guys running JD's loader system. The main down side to this method though, is that you lose any of the quick attach systems that JD has out right now. This can be overcome, but basically in my situation I needed the loader only, I didn't need bale forks or anything like that.


I'm sorry but the new style JD loaders, Aloe loaders and CNH loader will make any machine shop loaders look like a joke. You'd need you head checked to go backwards I time. The 746 and 846 John Deere loaders are basically indestructible. Now if you go back 20 years some if what you say may be true. Basically all new loaders come with global quick tach and that is what you want as most blade manufacturers are producing that mount. I've plowed commercially with farm loaders for 24 years and my dad did 16 years before that so we have a pretty good idea of what works as we've ran basically every kind of farm loader made plus many shop built ones.


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## DodgeRam1985 (Nov 30, 2006)

JD Dave, I don't disagree with you completely. I'm a diehard JD guy, always have been and always will be and JD in general has made huge advancements in their loaders, and the quick tach is amazing, if you have the need for it and put other ends on your loader besides a bucket. My biggest gripe with the loaders isn't really even the loader arms. I think those are pretty well built now, at least from what I've seen sitting out at the "money drain" (aka dealership). My biggest complaint with their loader systems is their buckets. I personally just don't think they are built all that well, now I'm not saying they are terrible, but for my money, I know I can have a bucket fabricated that will exceed my expectations greatly. My tractors are also used to row crop here, and I'm not sure but in my area we farm rock with a dash of soil, so there is a lot of digging and prying on rocks to get them up and out of the ground and hauled to the rock pile. Just been my experience that I've cracked a lot of welds on JD buckets, but haven't done so on either of my custom made buckets. Just my opinion and experience, like I said I won't disagree with you that they are much better built now, but my experience dictates going to a fab shop like Unverferth or Hill Bros and having one made (although i don't think either of those shops make buckets anymore, mostly just wagons and tillage equipment).


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

All our buckets are Horst or Aloe. I will agree with you on the JD buckets not being superior. We have a lot of stones and do a lot of digging. We have a European made 9 ft stone fork and it is near indestructible for picking and digging stones. If they are extremely big we did them out first with a bucket then we have use a Horst stone fork grapple to pick and sift the dirt. We have 5 loaders including our JD telehandler and 3 of them have hydraulic quick tach which is extremely nice.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Listen to JD Dave.

I spent 8 hours after Nemo in a 71 horse Mahindra with a regular dirt bucket. I keep telling him to put a box on it. The increased productivity would more than make up for the 23 mph travel speed.


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

I have been toying with the idea of bidding the lot where I work after I retire in 2 yrs.I found out that the bid is $130k.My buddy was going to work it with me.Right now the contractors use 4 pickup trucks,but are here forever.There are 4 employee lots that would take about 1 to 1.5 hrs each with a pickup---I did one once so I know.Then there is the tractor trailer area which is 30 overhead doors plus roadway and another 30 car lot.Was going to get a line on 2 -- 125-150 HP tractors with loaders and 12' box blades and 8' rear blades along with maybe 2 pickups.Then if I got the bid make my purchase and hope for snow.


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## classiclawncare (Jan 6, 2010)

I agree that a tractor or skid steer is faster than a truck. I have a few of each. 3 trucks, 2 tractors and a skid steer. My skid and tractor will out plow my trucks. It faster mainly b/c your not stopping to switch gears, its just forward and reverse petals and they are more maneuverable.


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

My tractors now outnumber my trucks! Cheaper to lease, plus 2 or 3 times the productivity. CVT tractors travel at near 30 MPH, blow snow like a Hydrostatic drive, my newest just arrived, snow tires from the factory, heated windshield, and mirrors.

Now if somebody in North America would just build a three point hitch salt spreader to rival the european ones I'd be happy.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

classiclawncare;1604189 said:


> I agree that a tractor or skid steer is faster than a truck. I have a few of each. 3 trucks, 2 tractors and a skid steer. My skid and tractor will out plow my trucks. It faster mainly b/c your not stopping to switch gears, its just forward and reverse petals and they are more maneuverable.


Real tractors don't have pedals for forward and reverse. While hydrostic does have it's place the 15-19mph max speed is the biggest problem for snow and farm use.


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## DodgeRam1985 (Nov 30, 2006)

JD Dave;1606647 said:


> Real tractors don't have pedals for forward and reverse.


 Could not have said it better myself!!!!! I bust up laughing every time I see someone running around in one of the catalog order tractors, thinking they are all that just because they have a "tractor" (although lets not kid ourselves, most of them are nothing more than just a suped up riding lawn lower)


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

JD Dave;1606647 said:


> Real tractors don't have pedals for forward and reverse. While hydrostic does have it's place the 15-19mph max speed is the biggest problem for snow and farm use.


30 KPH(18mph) is common for most power shift tractors, most in the last couple of years are available with 40 KPH, now we can finally get 50 KPH (30 MPH) on this side of the pond, most hydrostatic were 18-24 KPH or about 15 MPH, The new CVT compacts will do 30 kph (18 mph). I being picky on KPH vs MPH

Bill


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

nsmilligan;1609545 said:


> 30 KPH(18mph) is common for most power shift tractors, most in the last couple of years are available with 40 KPH, now we can finally get 50 KPH (30 MPH) on this side of the pond, most hydrostatic were 18-24 KPH or about 15 MPH, The new CVT compacts will do 30 kph (18 mph). I being picky on KPH vs MPH
> 
> Bill


We've had 40k power quads since 1997. Don't really see the need for 50k at the moment as our tractors stay on site and most of farm implements are to big and not designed for that speed.


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## hammerstein (Feb 2, 2007)

There is not a flat enough parking lot or road in the world that I would be in a tractor doing 30mph.

Dave, how fast are you going when pushing snow? I can no get my 5083e past 13 mph when pushing.


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## DodgeRam1985 (Nov 30, 2006)

There's no way you would see me driving those speeds while plowing (going down the road though to another site is a different story).

Have to use caution though with the new "Fast-Track" models out there though. There is still a ton of confussion in the state of Ohio among law enforcement agencies as to what is permissable and what isn't. Guys have been cited for having the slow moving vehicle sign (orange triangle) on the tractor while moving faster than the 25mph law. Other guys have been cited for not having it on when they are not going full throttle down the road. Others have been cited for no drivers license (which really tends to get parents when their children who help farm are driving them), in some cases departments wanted CDL licenses. Others have been cited for light requirements (head, break, tail, turn signal, etc) not being met on open roads when going faster than 25mph. It's really just a mess in Ohio with these. Not sure if they have made any law changes yet or clarrified anything on these issues.

Luckily for me, none of my tractors are "fast-track" as they are primarily used for farming, with the side bonus of snow removal where they would otherwise sit idle for 5 months.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

hammerstein;1609857 said:


> There is not a flat enough parking lot or road in the world that I would be in a tractor doing 30mph.
> 
> Dave, how fast are you going when pushing snow? I can no get my 5083e past 13 mph when pushing.


We don't actually plow faster then 12mph. Bad things can happen when your running the pavement going faster then that. I do go faster then that the odd time if I really know the pavement but I'd prefer the guys didn't.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

JD Dave;1606647 said:


> Real tractors don't have pedals for forward and reverse. While hydrostic does have it's place the 15-19mph max speed is the biggest problem for snow and farm use.


This is one of the reasons I got rid of my Bi-directional this year.
The speed was slow. 19 mph
Fuel economy was awful, the machine is almost always running at higher rpms.
Cost was high for maintenance.

I just wish the dealers were more interested in winter rental. Almost none will do it around my area, that would be S/E Wisconsin.
Love using tractors and wheel loaders over trucks any day. Still own both and most of my trucks just sit.


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

hammerstein;1609857 said:


> There is not a flat enough parking lot or road in the world that I would be in a tractor doing 30mph.
> 
> All my tractors have a suspended front axle, and are as comfortable on the highway as a car. The 30 mph tractors have to have other options, i.e. 4 wheel brakes.
> 
> ...


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## Marek (Nov 16, 2005)

Now just trying to figure out how I want it set up . Unit has front pto and 3 point. Leaning towards a frame mount 12 - 14 ' box .Have been told by several to just mount to the 3 point with the box but I dont think it would be a sturdy as a frame mount. Will pick up a large blower at auction over time . We seldom get large snowfall, but if and when it would easily pay for its self. Does anyone have a few pics of thier mount brackets they could post?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Marek;1611928 said:


> Now just trying to figure out how I want it set up . Unit has front pto and 3 point. Leaning towards a frame mount 12 - 14 ' box .Have been told by several to just mount to the 3 point with the box but I dont think it would be a sturdy as a frame mount. Will pick up a large blower at auction over time . We seldom get large snowfall, but if and when it would easily pay for its self. Does anyone have a few pics of thier mount brackets they could post?


There's a lot of tractors running front blades on the 3 points around here. What model tractor is it and what is the hitch rated for?


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## Marek (Nov 16, 2005)

Valtra N141


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## Upstate Snow (Nov 30, 2012)

We have a JD 6715 pushing a 14ft avalanche that is run with a laforge front 3point hitch. The setup works great, have never had any issues. I have actually wondered why you don't see more people running Laforge front hitches with pushers, as it seems to work extremely well. I also have a 6330 with a 12ft avalanche mounted to the loader, never had a problem with that, but really prefer the front hitch. Can't find any closeup pics, I'll try and get some.


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

Upstate Snow;1612269 said:


> We have a JD 6715 pushing a 14ft avalanche that is run with a laforge front 3point hitch. The setup works great, have never had any issues. I have actually wondered why you don't see more people running Laforge front hitches with pushers, as it seems to work extremely well. I also have a 6330 with a 12ft avalanche mounted to the loader, never had a problem with that, but really prefer the front hitch. Can't find any closeup pics, I'll try and get some.


Sounds like a nice setup. I'd be interested in seeing more of the front 3pt also. Thumbs Up


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

My 7740Ford top speed is 16mph my 6050NH Top speed 20mph 
The 7740 does really well on fuel vs 6050
Only use the 6050 for loading and pushing piles back

In my town you cant have a blade over 11ft on the streets


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Marek;1611992 said:


> Valtra N141


Sorry can't help you with a Valtra.


Upstate Snow;1612269 said:


> We have a JD 6715 pushing a 14ft avalanche that is run with a laforge front 3point hitch. The setup works great, have never had any issues. I have actually wondered why you don't see more people running Laforge front hitches with pushers, as it seems to work extremely well. I also have a 6330 with a 12ft avalanche mounted to the loader, never had a problem with that, but really prefer the front hitch. Can't find any closeup pics, I'll try and get some.


Laforge makes a heavy 3 point hitch. I'm surprised you don't see more also. Some of our harness's are 30 years old and we've just kept changing them for different style tractors, I always say I'm going to buy a 3 point when I buy a new tractor but then I cheap out and just use one of my old harness's. I'm guessing that 14ft Avalanch is a backhoe model as there is no way it could push a loader model.


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## Upstate Snow (Nov 30, 2012)

Nope, the 14ft is a loader model & the 12ft on the 6330 is also, no problems pushing them at all. The 12ft is a bit heavy for the 6330 mounted on the loader but no issues as of yet, it's been pushing it for 4 seasons now.


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## Upstate Snow (Nov 30, 2012)




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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Upstate Snow;1612834 said:


>


It does look like it pushes it well. I'm wondering if you get more fluffy snow then us because there is no way we can push a 14ft loader model with our 12,000 lb 7220's. We actually had problems pushing the 12 fts in the last storm as there was 8" of heavy slop. We do have 14's on our 7820's which basically play with the 14's in most storms.


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## Upstate Snow (Nov 30, 2012)

We seem to get a good mix of all snow types, depending on the weather pattern of the day. That snow in the video was light & fluffy, but we get it all. One thing in this market & with our customers, is that we rarely push the whole storm in one push. They want to see equip. with yellow lights in there lots the entire time it's snowing. For that reason, even if we get 2ft of snow, were only pushing few inches at a rip, unless we get way behind. So, even though my pushers may be a little big for a foot of snow, most of the time we are only chasing around a couple inches & bigger pushers speed that up.
That being said, all the machines have pushed over a foot of snow at one time or another & don't have a problem, just slows everything down.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

All of our work is zero tolerance and we have pushes as long as 1500 ft so it really doesn't matter on the qauntity of snow because the pushers are completely full even with an inch of snow. There has to be some differnece in the moisture content of the snow or traction issues because we run bigger heavier tractors then you but who knows maybe all of our 12 tractors are just setup wrong. Even our 8220 has trouble on occasion with a 14ft pusher.


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## Upstate Snow (Nov 30, 2012)

1500ft, we don't have anything with near that long of a push, could be the difference right there. Our longest push is maybe half that, probably less.


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

I agree it's amazing what 1" of snow is like at the end of a long push,

I hate going to plow one " of snow and it snows again when your done and you have to do it over, but we had one time this year we had 9"s come down, and it was just a huge hassle to push that much that far, once you squeegee to the pavement traction is nowhere to be found,


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## az landscaping (Jan 2, 2011)

I made these wings on my truck and they save me half the time doing storages 30 yards long with no were to put snow. Also use them in my commercial lots save me time money and wear and tear on my trucks win ,win . for me.


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