# Angle that blade when traveling!



## Jim Karns (Nov 26, 2007)

Greetings,
I would like to pose a question to others: Is it just me or are there a ton of "ham and eggers" out there driving down the road with thier plow blades straight across - instead of angled? Apparently western Connecticut is the worlds supplier of inconsiderate (or ignorant - I can't tell) drivers who think the rest of the drivers (including other plow trucks) should yeild to them just because they're driving with thier plow....
I drive a GMC 5500 with a 9.5' V plow and always travel with the plow in "V" mode. It seems the "low boy dumps" are always the culprits. 9' blades don't leave too much room for anyone else....especially on the back roads. :realmad:
Sorry for the rant.
J


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## mike33087 (Feb 9, 2005)

i tend to leave the plow on my dump straight... cause when i angle it to the left i cant see the left marker due to the pillar blocking my vision. but if need be i angle to get by..... i also love how people always stop cause they think that there isnt enough room and i just keep comming lol.... its amazing how someone can drive the same car everyday and not know its limits.....


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## Sno4U (Dec 30, 2003)

I always travel in V position.
1. It lets more air to the radiator
2. It cuts down wind resistence
3. The truck travels w/o being pushed to one side or the other just from the wind
4.If you hit drifted snow going down the road, it is more likely you'll push straight thru, rather than towards a ditch.

...sure the 1st 2 are arguable but the 2nd 2 are definites!!


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## Runner (Jul 21, 2000)

With a V, it's the only way to go. Another reason, is that this is the lightest formation on the front of the truck. A V just has the ultimate transport configuration of any plow. One thing that IS necessary many times with he V, is that when the plow is all the way back, occasionally it does have to be pushed forward just a hair, to avoid the tips from bouncing and scraping the ground.


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## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

This thread alway gets heated LOL


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## KGRlandscapeing (May 2, 2007)

i think ur a moron if u have a V and dont break it. now if u got strait blade thats 7 or 8 ft dosent make the much of a diffrence and i travel with mine angled and it never pushs me around form side to side.


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## Plowinpro03 (Dec 18, 2007)

if you got a straight blade, unless ur looking to cool down on the highway..(even thats arguable), or looking to get threw a tight spot, i drive it straight. when you angle it, ur killing 1 side of your truck much faster, ball joints/shocks get a kick in the ass think about it.


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## mike33087 (Feb 9, 2005)

*ok*



KGRlandscapeing;533333 said:


> i think ur a moron if u have a V and dont break it. now if u got strait blade thats 7 or 8 ft dosent make the much of a diffrence and i travel with mine angled and it never pushs me around form side to side.


have you ever driven on the highway with your plow on? you'll notice a difference in pull if you change it from one side to the other


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## AbsoluteH&L (Jan 5, 2006)

mike33087;533374 said:


> have you ever driven on the highway with your plow on? you'll notice a difference in pull if you change it from one side to the other


Thats ******* power steering!   I run with my blade strait, but I don't think my 6.5 will bother any one that much!


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## Flipper (Nov 1, 2001)

I tend to just leave mine the way it is after the last push at an account. If its angled its stays that way if its straight it stays that way. Usually less then a mile to next account, sometimes only 100 feet. If I was drving longer I might think about it more, but I just want to get to the next account.

Now the v Plow usually gets veed for driving from what i have seen my driver doing.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I'll let Crazy Mike handle this one. LOL


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## KGRlandscapeing (May 2, 2007)

mike33087;533374 said:


> have you ever driven on the highway with your plow on? you'll notice a difference in pull if you change it from one side to the other


yes i have and usally its kickd about halfway to the right so my lowside is to the curb and my truck dosent go anywhere.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

Jim Karns;533254 said:


> Greetings,
> I would like to pose a question to others: Is it just me or are there a ton of "ham and eggers" out there driving down the road with thier plow blades straight across - instead of angled? Apparently western Connecticut is the worlds supplier of inconsiderate (or ignorant - I can't tell) drivers who think the rest of the drivers (including other plow trucks) should yeild to them just because they're driving with thier plow....
> I drive a GMC 5500 with a 9.5' V plow and always travel with the plow in "V" mode. It seems the "low boy dumps" are always the culprits. 9' blades don't leave too much room for anyone else....especially on the back roads. :realmad:
> Sorry for the rant.
> J


I never leave the blade angled. I keep mine straight and just high enough off the ground so that the grill isnt really blocked. If i had a 9' or 10' blade then ya i would angle it.


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## snowman79 (Nov 27, 2007)

I drive with it straight across...i had a bad experience last year when driving angled....blade caught a snow drift and since it was angeled almost pulled me into the ditch and caused me to loose control...scary stuff at 2 am. Really woke me up


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## Plowin in VT (Dec 7, 2007)

I always keep mine angled to the right, this way if I am on narrow roads, or if snow banks are high, it'll just glide along it.

I only have an 8' Fisher, but w/the Pro Wings on it, it's a little over 9 1/2' wide.


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## highlander316 (Oct 18, 2006)

Quality SR;533587 said:


> I never leave the blade angled. I keep mine straight and just high enough off the ground so that the grill isnt really blocked. If i had a 9' or 10' blade then ya i would angle it.


that's exactly what I do. Don't ever have a problem w/ traffic, and we have some tight roads here.


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Plowin in VT;533773 said:


> I always keep mine angled to the right, this way if I am on narrow roads, or if snow banks are high, it'll just glide along it.
> 
> I only have an 8' Fisher, but w/the Pro Wings on it, it's a little over 9 1/2' wide.


Yeah, same here! If you drive with it straight, theres more wind resistance pushing up against the plow. I keep mine angled to the right all the time!


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## ABES (Jun 10, 2007)

lately i just leave the plow the way it was when i left the lot. ALso when you angle it blocks ur headlights thats not too safe.


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

ABES;533784 said:


> lately i just leave the plow the way it was when i left the lot. ALso when you angle it blocks ur headlights thats not too safe.


It may block the truck headlights, but that doesn't matter cause the plows headlight system is on.


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## highlander316 (Oct 18, 2006)

mine will actually block the plows headlights.


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## ABES (Jun 10, 2007)

creativedesigns;533788 said:


> It may block the truck headlights, but that doesn't matter cause the plows headlight system is on.


ya it blocks one of the plows headlights


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

Plowinpro03;533345 said:


> i drive it straight. when you angle it, ur killing 1 side of your truck much faster, ball joints/shocks get a kick in the ass think about it.
> 
> You are kidding right?....how did you derive to this conlusion





snowman79;533748 said:


> I drive with it straight across...i had a bad experience last year when driving angled....blade caught a snow drift and since it was angeled almost pulled me into the ditch and caused me to loose control...scary stuff at 2 am. Really woke me up
> 
> that's why you are supposed to angle it to the right.


CALLING CRAZY MIKE:


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## Chevytruck85 (Nov 22, 2004)

This is such a waste of everyones time.....WHO CARES!


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## treeman06 (Sep 26, 2006)

driving with a 8.5 plow sraight is really no different than driving down a country road with a trailer that is 8.5 or 9 ft wide. even the county boys in our area run their v' s in the straight position. do not know why and i really do not care. if we were all the same and thought the same the world sure would be boring.


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

Chevytruck85;533835 said:


> This is such a waste of everyones time.....WHO CARES!


you act like you got somethin to do? sit back and relax, maybe crazy mike and JD will jump in


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Chevytruck85;533835 said:


> This is such a waste of everyones time.....WHO CARES!


If you think its such a waste of time, why are you spending the time reading it and posting in it?

The whole board is a waste of time then. Its a DISCUSSION FORUM so if they want to discuss something, and you don't want to read it, then don't.

That being said, this topic has been beaten to death over and over, so I'll just say the same thing it always comes down to.

You need to be within the maximum width for public roads, which I believe is 8'-6" pretty much everywhere. Therefore, if you have a blade narrower than that (including any wings) then do what you want based on what you believe about deflecting cars in an impact, rubbing along the snowbank, or cooling your truck. If you have a blade that is wider, then you are OVERWIDTH BY LAW and can and eventually will get a ticket for it, for interference with other traffic. Angle your blade whichever way you prefer enought to keep under 8'-6"

That is, unless you want to pay for permits and carry a WIDE LOAD banner (on your truck, not you! Well, maybe some of the guys...)

Is this so hard for everyone to understand?


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## AbsoluteH&L (Jan 5, 2006)

Apparently!


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## daninline (Nov 1, 2004)

Jim Karns;533254 said:


> Greetings,
> I would like to pose a question to others: Is it just me or are there a ton of "ham and eggers" out there driving down the road with thier plow blades straight across - instead of angled? Apparently western Connecticut is the worlds supplier of inconsiderate (or ignorant - I can't tell) drivers who think the rest of the drivers (including other plow trucks) should yeild to them just because they're driving with thier plow....
> I drive a GMC 5500 with a 9.5' V plow and always travel with the plow in "V" mode. It seems the "low boy dumps" are always the culprits. 9' blades don't leave too much room for anyone else....especially on the back roads. :realmad:
> Sorry for the rant.
> J


Well I think there are a lot of inconsiderate people up here in NE CT also as you stated it's a big problem on the backroads even with a 8 foot blade and they don't give a crap. There the same guys that plow across all the roads around here and leave the snow sitting in the road (the hacks) I was told that they will start busting down since it's becoming common place out here.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

This thread is always good. lol.

I always have mine to the right because that way I won't get spun into a snow bank and if oncoming traffic hits me, the release valves will act as a shock absorber for me anyways. 

I will put it straight if I need more light in low visibiliy situations. But otherwise always right.


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## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

I usually start my route off with the Wings already on because the first half of it uses them. That being said, there is a HUGE difference in cooling on the truck even when only driving at 45 mph on the freeway when the blade is angled. For anyone who is experiencing the blade blocking your headlights/plow lights (like mine does) this is your best reason for investing in a set of fog lights on your truck if it doesn't have any. My temp gauge definately shows the difference of around 15-20 degrees when transporting in the straight configuration than when in the angled, so I can just imagine what that translates into for your trans cooler if you have one! Most people around my area do transport in the angled position, but as to which side is pretty much a split I have noticed. Since mine is 9'4" wide with the wings on, I tend to keep it angled to the right so that if/when I catch a bit of snow on the edge of the road it tends to shed it and not pull the truck that way. Just my personal preference though...


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

Jim Karns;533254 said:


> 9' blades don't leave too much room for anyone else....especially on the back roads. :realmad:


My 7.6 with wings is about 9.7ft. I usually run with it straight 90% of the time. If I angle it all the way to one side the wing will drag on the ground. I do angle it if the road gets tight. Most of the time if I am on a 2way road I just hang closer to the white line giving myself about 1.5-2ft between the left side of my plow and the center line. If I drive with my blade angled its hard to drive straight without constantly turning "into" the direction the blade is angled a little to go straight down the road.



ABES;533784 said:


> Also when you angle it blocks ur headlights thats not too safe.





highlander316;533803 said:


> mine will actually block the plows headlights.


On my unimount if I angle my plow all the way to one side, the light on the side that is farthest from the plow shines into the back of the blade, not over it into the road.



treeman06;533840 said:


> run their v' s in the straight position. do not know why and i really do not care.


I know for my boss any way if he puts his 9.2 v in the "V" mode the rear corners drag.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

8'6 is the width law. If you have a 9ft blade, you wouldn't beleive how much 3" makes a difference on each side. Your driving ability makes more difference, then how you angle your blade. I have V-plows on my pickups, so everybody runs them in the V for travel but in all honesty I don't care how you run your blade on the road as long as your a safe and courteous driver. JMO


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Plowinpro03;533345 said:


> if you got a straight blade, unless ur looking to cool down on the highway..(even thats arguable), or looking to get threw a tight spot, i drive it straight. when you angle it, ur killing 1 side of your truck much faster, ball joints/shocks get a kick in the ass think about it.


Crap, I see PJ beat me to it, but once again, you are joking, right?

PS It's "you are" not "ur" Apparently too many kicks in the ass. 



powerjoke;533829 said:


> CALLING CRAZY MIKE:


See above PJ. Wish you weren't so Johnny on the spot. lol



derekbroerse;533890 said:


> If you think its such a waste of time, why are you spending the time reading it and posting in it?
> 
> The whole board is a waste of time then. Its a DISCUSSION FORUM so if they want to discuss something, and you don't want to read it, then don't.
> 
> ...


There you go making sense again Derek. Silly you.



Mark13;533965 said:


> My 7.6 with wings is about 9.7ft. I usually run with it straight 90% of the time. If I angle it all the way to one side the wing will drag on the ground. I do angle it if the road gets tight. Most of the time if I am on a 2way road I just hang closer to the white line giving myself about 1.5-2ft between the left side of my plow and the center line. If I drive with my blade angled its hard to drive straight without constantly turning "into" the direction the blade is angled a little to go straight down the road.


Then you're (ur) breaking the law. And if you hit me or make me drive into the ditch or side of the road because of this, I am going to chase you down and get your license number so you will be ticketed for it and pay for any damages to my truck\plow because you are knowingly breaking the law. It is unsafe for you to drive this way, so maybe you want to think about it. It isn't my problem or anyone else's problem that your trailing edge hits the road. If it bothers you, take it off while traveling, don't endanger everyone else.



Mark13;533965 said:


> On my unimount if I angle my plow all the way to one side, the light on the side that is farthest from the plow shines into the back of the blade, not over it into the road.


Drop the plow a little and it won't block the light. Or don't angle it fully. Very simple to overcome this 'issue'. Still not my problem and doesn't make it right for you to leave your blade straight and be overwidth.



Mark13;533965 said:


> I know for my boss any way if he puts his 9.2 v in the "V" mode the rear corners drag.


Same as above, drop the plow a touch, straighten the wings a touch and you'll be all set.

Or you could get trucks with a real front axle and suspension.


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## YardMedic (Nov 29, 2006)

There's a lumber yard in the town I work that has a 9.5 Fisher V that the guy seems to ALWAYS drive around in scoop position. I can't get the advantages other than maybe not rubbing the corners on bumps.


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## smoore45 (Oct 27, 2007)

If you read any of your truck owner manuals there should be a short "Snow Plow" section. They recommend running with an angled blade for maximum air flow to the front of the truck. I personally don't have any 9' blades, but even if I did it is just common sense and courtesy to not hit things and cut people off whether or not the blade is straight or angled. I don't understand why people think angling it right vs. left matters. Don't hit anything, period.


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

i did a little test last night. I was going down the highway at 70mph. my outside air temp guage is in the grill so it always reads wrong with the plow on. so i had it in V and the temp guage went to 116* before i changed the angle. i went full left and right also. going full right dropped the temps about 10* and full left they were the same as the V temps. i went traight and low like i always do and it went to 65*. 

Im sure that s a very inaccurate test but reguardless, it shows you which configuration will get you the most air through the grill.

Also as a fyi, like i said, i always have my blade straight and low. my tow mirrors stick out farther than my plow and thats with the mirrors tucked in all the way, so your going to hit my mirrors before my blade if your driving on the line.


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## DFLS (Dec 24, 2007)

This again??

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=56853


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

DFLS;534396 said:


> This again??
> 
> http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=56853


Yeah, sort of like the strobe light threads.

Beats the crap out of "What kind of plow should I put on my Schwinn?" Or "I just bought my first shovel, how do I bid a WalMart?"

At least it's more intellectually stimulating for me.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

Mark Oomkes;534267 said:


> Then you're (ur) breaking the law. And if you hit me or make me drive into the ditch or side of the road because of this, I am going to chase you down and get your license number so you will be ticketed for it and pay for any damages to my truck\plow because you are knowingly breaking the law. It is unsafe for you to drive this way, so maybe you want to think about it. It isn't my problem or anyone else's problem that your trailing edge hits the road. If it bothers you, take it off while traveling, don't endanger everyone else.
> 
> Or you could get trucks with a real front axle and suspension.


I have driven plenty of times with my plow and wings and I always make sure I am no where close to going over the centerline. I always hang over farther to the right when traveling with my wings on to insure I do not interfere with oncomming motorists. I an aware that my plow is quite wide and that it does not give much free room before I'm over the line, I just have to plan ahead a bit further and stay alert. I'm not saying I'm doing it the right way, but I'm not the only one in the area doing this. When I have my wings on I angle the blade a little but not much.

As far as my boss with the corners of his wings dragging while in traveling, his plow is mounted on a "real" truck as you say. His f350 drops more with his 9.2 ploy v then my 1500 does with my 7.6straight with wings. I know the plows weigh differently, but I thought his was a "real" truck.









As far as angling the blade to cool the truck more I have not found that more effective unless I am going 60-65. If I keep my plow straight and a few inches off the ground my truck runs about 160-170 for the motor and 100-110 for the trans. If I angle the blade the truck gets no cooler, thats the temperature it runs even with no plow on.


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## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

I run straighht blades and have always tended to keep them straight and now know personally of one guy who is happy I do.

Three weeks ago I was traveling from one job to another at 35-40mph in a pretty heavy snow and was following a minivan. All of a sudden inexpeicably the van looses control and spins out winding up turned 90 degrees in the wrong direction of the flow of traffic right in the middle of the lane we were travelling . There was a car coming in the opposite direction and a T-pole and trees on the shoulder, I had no chioce other than to slam right into the side of it. Needless to say my F-550 w/9ft MC Fisher faired much better than the van did, it was totaled and the driver of the van was taken away in an ambulance. His injuries were fairly serious but nothing life threatening. I for one think if I had had my plow angled as you demand the injuries could have been much different. If I had hit him with the blade angled the leading corner most likely would have gone most, if not all of the way through the passenger compartment and who knows what the end result would have been?

The other advantage to having a blade not angled or not fully angled is that when you strike something you will get the "cushion" of the hydraulic cylinders collapsing which also happened during the course of the above acciden and most likely lessened the severity of the damage to both vehicles and the other driver.

Another related story that I have first hand knowledge of is that while one of my drivers was actively plowing a municipal street he had another private plow operator travelling from one site to another strike him head on with the corner of his 9' Fisher HD w/o snowfoil. It caught the drivers side tire and rim totaling both then proceeded to destroy the LF quarter and then put a 3' long tear in the drivers door. Thankfully the plow was angled so that it was a glancing blow and repelled my truck rather than catch it with the leading corner and then proceed to be sucked into cut it's way right into the drivers compartment if it had been angled toward te gutter rather than the yellow line. I for one feel if it had been angled the opposite way could or would have been fatal to my employee.

If he had had it angled the other direction it could have been my or your wife pulling out of a side street that his angled plow struck because his straight blade just happened to be angled the wrong way.

It seems to be that your biggest issue juding by this statement of yours "_don't leave too much room for anyone else....especially on the back roads"_ is the convience of you getting from one place to another or maybe it's being too difficult for you to overcome or deal with possibly due to lack of driving skills.

So MR. Karns in closing I'd like to know what makes you feel qualified or compelled to classify me and my 27+ years of professional plowing experience as a "Ham and Egger" but I'd be interested in hearing or seeing those qualifications that you feel put you on a God like status. I don't know about you but I'd put my and others personal safety ahead of your personal pet peeve or shortcomings.

ps Sorry for the long winded, fact filled reply to your meaningless rant. ussmileyflag


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Big Dog D;535409 said:


> I run straighht blades and have always tended to keep them straight and now know personally of one guy who is happy I do.
> 
> Three weeks ago I was traveling from one job to another at 35-40mph in a pretty heavy snow and was following a minivan. All of a sudden inexpeicably the van looses control and spins out winding up turned 90 degrees in the wrong direction of the flow of traffic right in the middle of the lane we were travelling . There was a car coming in the opposite direction and a T-pole and trees on the shoulder, I had no chioce other than to slam right into the side of it. Needless to say my F-550 w/9ft MC Fisher faired much better than the van did, it was totaled and the driver of the van was taken away in an ambulance. His injuries were fairly serious but nothing life threatening. I for one think if I had had my plow angled as you demand the injuries could have been much different. If I had hit him with the blade angled the leading corner most likely would have gone most, if not all of the way through the passenger compartment and who knows what the end result would have been?


DId you have your strobes on? Bet you didn't, because otherwise this lamebrain would have known better than to spin out in front of you.

Even more amazing is that you hit someone with a deadly weapon and didn't kill anybody!

How can that be? Or maybe because it's because you DID have your strobes on.



Big Dog D;535409 said:


> Another related story that I have first hand knowledge of is that while one of my drivers was actively plowing a municipal street he had another private plow operator travelling from one site to another strike him head on with the corner of his 9' Fisher HD w/o snowfoil. It caught the drivers side tire and rim totaling both then proceeded to destroy the LF quarter and then put a 3' long tear in the drivers door. Thankfully the plow was angled so that it was a glancing blow and repelled my truck rather than catch it with the leading corner and then proceed to be sucked into cut it's way right into the drivers compartment if it had been angled toward te gutter rather than the yellow line. I for one feel if it had been angled the opposite way could or would have been fatal to my employee.
> 
> If he had had it angled the other direction it could have been my or your wife pulling out of a side street that his angled plow struck because his straight blade just happened to be angled the wrong way.
> 
> ...


Once again, deadly weapons and nobody died. Amazing.

So if you're guy was plowing the street, he had his strobe on and still got hit? What about the other guy? Did he have his strobe on? If so, did they cancel each other out and cause the crash? If so, you need to invest in even more Binky lights so you can outBinky the other guy and he won't hit your deadly weapon with his deadly weapon.

PS Did Bullwinkle have his strobe on when you murdered him? Or were you carelessly driving your deadly weapon without your strobe on in his part of the country?

PPS Seriously, glad to hear no one was seriously hurt in either accident.

PPPS What's wrong with ham and eggs?


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## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

In both truck vs vehicle accidents the strobes were on on my vehicles.

The lamebrain that struck us did not even have a strobe.

It's against the law for Moose to posses strobes in Maine.

Funny you mention it but I don't like either ham or eggs but I do have a particular disdain for being classified as a food dish by someone of Mr Karns caliber.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Big Dog D;535409 said:


> I run straighht blades and have always tended to keep them straight and now know personally of one guy who is happy I do.
> 
> Three weeks ago I was traveling from one job to another at 35-40mph in a pretty heavy snow and was following a minivan. All of a sudden inexpeicably the van looses control and spins out winding up turned 90 degrees in the wrong direction of the flow of traffic right in the middle of the lane we were travelling . There was a car coming in the opposite direction and a T-pole and trees on the shoulder, I had no chioce other than to slam right into the side of it. Needless to say my F-550 w/9ft MC Fisher faired much better than the van did, it was totaled and the driver of the van was taken away in an ambulance. His injuries were fairly serious but nothing life threatening. I for one think if I had had my plow angled as you demand the injuries could have been much different. If I had hit him with the blade angled the leading corner most likely would have gone most, if not all of the way through the passenger compartment and who knows what the end result would have been?
> 
> ...


I think you'll find that since there are bonusses to each position, as well as drawbacks, and it could just as easily have been worse in the position you choose. There is a certain amount of luck involved, as I'm sure you realize.

But regardless of that, unless your laws are different than here, your 9' blade is still overwidth and illegal to have straight, and you could just as easily have been written up for that. Any arguement becomes pointless then, even if it did save someone's life (think along the lines of manditory seatbelts, and someone living BECAUSE they weren't wearing it).

Again, the law is the law, and it is for everyone, not just everyone except those with a snowplow.

The most common beef with having them straight is the ignorance factor, where if an obstacle prevents the straight plow from fitting somewhere that the operator just takes the oncoming traffics lane instead of angling the blade to suit.... forcing other drivers to have to suddenly react. Some drivers with the blade straight have the brains to drive further over in the lane but I'd say the bulk of 'em don't, at least here. I'd imagine those are the ones he referred to as ham and eggers (ie ametuers).

Personally, I love ham and eggs, but would rather have sausages over the ham (no sick perverted replies cuz I'm not talking about... you know... )


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## rjfetz1 (Dec 2, 2006)

> Mark Oomkes;534415 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, sort of like the strobe light threads.
> ...


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

DFLS;534396 said:


> This again??
> 
> http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=56853




That exactly what I was thinking... Guys try using the search button before posting again and again and again...............!


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