# What Non-CDL Dump Truck to buy?



## tsafa

Hi all.

I am ready to buy an new dump truck. I am looking for some recommendations. I don't want to bother with CDL B.S. so I am going to keep the weight under 26,000 lbs. I will be putting a plow blade on this and be pulling a 10,000 lb trailer.

I am probably looking for something like a Ford F-550. I am not sure what other trucks I should look at in this price range. The thing that bugs me about the F-550 is that they only make them in automatic transmissions. The good thing about the F-550 though is that it comes in 4x4. 

Any other trucks I should look at?

Thanks


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## alldayrj

A 550 will only get you 19.5 k gvw. Look at international 4300. Mine drags my 10k trailer around no problem and i can put 10k in the bed easily


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## Whiffyspark

tsafa;1742154 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I am ready to buy an new dump truck. I am looking for some recommendations. I don't want to bother with CDL B.S. so I am going to keep the weight under 26,000 lbs. I will be putting a plow blade on this and be pulling a 10,000 lb trailer.
> 
> I am probably looking for something like a Ford F-550. I am not sure what other trucks I should look at in this price range. The thing that bugs me about the F-550 is that they only make them in automatic transmissions. The good thing about the F-550 though is that it comes in 4x4.
> 
> Any other trucks I should look at?
> 
> Thanks


What else are you going to use it for?


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## 94gt331

Ford 650 would be nice but has some pros and cons depending on your needs.


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## mud

A 550 with a 10k trailer behind it will put you into cdl range. Any combo with a combined gvwr of over 26k is cdl territory if its being used for commercial purposes. A 10 k trailer behind that truck would be a class b cdl 10001 or higher would be a class a.

Without the trailer no cdl needed. Just DOT Numbers and a medical card.


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## Drewster2012

International terrastar? I though the 4300 u need a cdl??


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## Mark Oomkes

Here we go again. 

Subscribed


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## SnowFakers

Truck itself needs to be under 16k gvwr in order to tow the trailer without a CDL. So that means a one ton truck


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## Triton2286

mud;1742331 said:


> A 550 with a 10k trailer behind it will put you into cdl range. Any combo with a combined gvwr of over 26k is cdl territory if its being used for commercial purposes. A 10 k trailer behind that truck would be a class b cdl 10001 or higher would be a class a.
> 
> Without the trailer no cdl needed. Just DOT Numbers and a medical card.


You need to learn the difference between GVWR and GCWR

A CDL is for a truck with a GVWR over 26K


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## jomama45

Mark Oomkes;1742339 said:


> Here we go again.
> 
> Subscribed


If you go to the upper right hand side of the first post, you can click on the "thread tools" icon and subscribe that way as well.

You're welcome..............


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## Triton2286

jomama45;1742376 said:


> If you go to the upper right hand side of the first post, you can click on the "thread tools" icon and subscribe that way as well.
> 
> You're welcome..............


Thank god someone else knows that lol


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## Mark Oomkes

jomama45;1742376 said:


> If you go to the upper right hand side of the first post, you can click on the "thread tools" icon and subscribe that way as well.
> 
> You're welcome..............


Listen cheese wheel, I'm trying to boost my post count, I have several lost years to make up for.


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## alldayrj

Everyone knows everything but doesnt own one. I have a 4300 at 25995, my trailer is 9990, i do it every day. If thats cdl territory then everyone i have ever met needs a cdl and we all break the law


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## jomama45

Mark Oomkes;1742381 said:


> Listen cheese wheel, I'm trying to boost my post count, *I have several lost years to make up for.*


Care to explain why????

To the OP, there's plenty of trucks larger than F550's available at similar or less money that you don't need a CDL for. Every large commercial truck manu (Peterbilt, International, Kenworth, etc...) makes them. They even make them with air brakes/breaks under CDL.................Thumbs Up


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## Whiffyspark

mud;1742331 said:


> A 550 with a 10k trailer behind it will put you into cdl range. Any combo with a combined gvwr of over 26k is cdl territory if its being used for commercial purposes. A 10 k trailer behind that truck would be a class b cdl 10001 or higher would be a class a.
> 
> Without the trailer no cdl needed. Just DOT Numbers and a medical card.


Wrong.

Trailer has to be over 10k


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## mud

I will admit I was wrong here. Taken from the fmca website.

If the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the tow truck alone is 26,001 pounds or more, and the driver either (a) drives the tow truck without a vehicle in tow, or (b) drives the tow truck with a towed vehicle of 10,000 pounds or less Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), then the driver needs a Group B CDL.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...mcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=383.91&guidence=Y

This would also apply to dump trucks. However if the rating of the trailer is 10001 or over it would require a class a cdl provided the total of the GVWR's is over 26k pounds.

You can still be required to have a cld even with a regular pickup provided that the combined weight ratings of the trailer and truck are over 26k if the trailer is over 10k

That being said most states will also require dot numbers and a medical card for vehicle or combination of vehicles weighting over 10k pounds.


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## mud

Triton2286;1742369 said:


> You need to learn the difference between GVWR and GCWR
> 
> A CDL is for a truck with a GVWR over 26K


Not always. One of the reasons I have 14k trailers instead of 16k is I would be required to have a class a with my trucks.

If the trailer weight is over 10k and the GVWR of both added together exceeds 26k a cdl a is required.

The way the laws are written is really fubar when it comes down to it. Even if you ask DOT enforcement personnel you are likely to get two different answers from two different people.


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## tsafa

Whiffyspark;1742283 said:


> What else are you going to use it for?


plowing and salting in the winter... grass cutting in the summer. If any other opportunities come up I would consider them of course. I would be dragging around a 6,000 lb tractor/FEL/backhoe on a 10 K trailer.


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## tsafa

jomama45;1742389 said:


> To the OP, there's plenty of trucks larger than F550's available at similar or less money that you don't need a CDL for. Every large commercial truck manu (Peterbilt, International, Kenworth, etc...) makes them. They even make them with air brakes/breaks under CDL.................Thumbs Up


Yeah.... thats the sort of advice I am looking for. I am trying to find the best value/flexibility.

The F550 no longer come with manual transmissions... and I think that is a bad thing. So I am very much inclined to find something else.


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## alldayrj

You dont need anything bigger than a 550 really then. Do the dodge 5500s come with a manual? What about the terrastars?


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## tsafa

I just found out that the trailer is rated for 9,990 lbs.... 

Now I know why they come up with these weird numbers.


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## Drewster2012

tsafa;1742501 said:


> I just found out that the trailer is rated for 9,990 lbs....
> 
> Now I know why they come up with these weird numbers.


as i said before.. terrastar is in the same class as a 550


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## snopushin ford

Why not just get your CDL and not worry about it?? I think it is easier to get it then to worry all the time about what you can or can not do. Another thing is they only become harder to get so if you think you will ever change your business where you would be doing bigger things just get it now and not worry. Just a thought


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## cretebaby

snopushin ford;1742576 said:


> Why not just get your CDL and not worry about it??


Cuz then you have to worry aboot all the crap that goes with having a CDL


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## cretebaby

jomama45;1742389 said:


> Care to explain why????
> 
> To the OP, there's plenty of trucks larger than F550's available at similar or less money that you don't need a CDL for. Every large commercial truck manu (Peterbilt, International, Kenworth, etc...) makes them. They even make them with air brakes/breaks under CDL.................Thumbs Up


But.......but......but wouldn't that require an air brake/break endoorsement? And that needs a CDL.


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## snopushin ford

cretebaby;1742594 said:


> Cuz then you have to worry aboot all the crap that goes with having a CDL


there isn't that much "crap"


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## jomama45

snopushin ford;1742611 said:


> there isn't that much "*crap*"


Speaking of which, I suppose we could apply your logic to just about anything in life............

We should all get a yearly colonoscopy starting at 25 years old. It's not really that much crap..........

Sorry, but if you don't legally need a CDL, there's really no good reason to have one, unless you like paying additional taxes and fees..............


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## jomama45

cretebaby;1742607 said:


> But.......but......but wouldn't that require an air brake/break endoorsement? And that needs a CDL.


Glad to see you're still alive, I haven't seen you around in a while. :waving:

When is your next trip to the airport?????????


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## cretebaby

snopushin ford;1742611 said:


> there isn't that much "crap"


It's a lot if you don't need it.


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## Whiffyspark

snopushin ford;1742611 said:


> there isn't that much "crap"


Yeah there is.


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## cretebaby

jomama45;1742629 said:


> Glad to see you're still alive, I haven't seen you around in a while. :waving:
> 
> When is your next trip to the airport?????????


It's nice to see some of my understudies picking up some of my slack.

No airport trips planned but maybe I should schedule one.


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## jomama45

cretebaby;1742638 said:


> It's nice to see some of my understudies picking up some of my slack.
> 
> No airport trips planned but maybe I should schedule one.


Sounds good.............

Here's just an example for the OP. It's auto, but I didn't search very hard. A truck like this will outwork an F550 in most every way, especially in repair bills..........

http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/2006-STERLING-ACTERRA-111615743


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## Whiffyspark

tsafa;1742468 said:


> Yeah.... thats the sort of advice I am looking for. I am trying to find the best value/flexibility.
> 
> The F550 no longer come with manual transmissions... and I think that is a bad thing. So I am very much inclined to find something else.


Youre going to be hard pressed to find a manual in any truck now. Even medium to heavy Duty trucks are running automatics

Personally I like having an auto these days.


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## alldayrj

You guys missed the part where he is just mowing grass with it. Not sure why he even wants a 550


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## Triton2286

alldayrj;1742678 said:


> You guys missed the part where he is just mowing grass with it. Not sure why he even wants a 550


Thumbs Up :salute:


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## nw landscaping

I think you can order a 550 with a manual tranny. I WOULD NOT recommend a dodge 5500. I had 1 less than a year and traded it for a 550. It had no power, horrible fuel mileage, the suspension is more comparable to a 350 etc...only thing I liked with the dodge was the exhaust brake..it works extremely well. I was considering checking out the terrastar once im ready to replace the 550.


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## jrs.landscaping

snopushin ford;1742611 said:


> there isn't that much "crap"


So i'd suppose you are a registered motor carrier and Know the regs involved with running CMV's?


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## tsafa

I really like that truck !!!

and price!!!!

Thanks :bluebounc



jomama45;1742653 said:


> Sounds good.............
> 
> Here's just an example for the OP. It's auto, but I didn't search very hard. A truck like this will outwork an F550 in most every way, especially in repair bills..........
> 
> http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/2006-STERLING-ACTERRA-111615743


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## snopushin ford

jrs.landscaping;1742727 said:


> So i'd suppose you are a registered motor carrier and Know the regs involved with running CMV's?


yes I do have my class A. My point is if he gets a truck that is just under cdl and uses his 9990 gvw trailer I know he is fine. But if his business changes and needs a bigger trailer then he could be needing a class A. We are having this problem at work with guys that want to drive the 550's with the 14K gvw trailer. No license ever gets easier to get, they only become harder, so if he think he might need it in the future then my opinion is its easier to get now. That was my point.


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## xtreem3d

tsafa;1742154 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I am ready to buy an new dump truck. I am looking for some recommendations. I don't want to bother with CDL B.S. so I am going to keep the weight under 26,000 lbs. I will be putting a plow blade on this and be pulling a 10,000 lb trailer.
> 
> I am probably looking for something like a Ford F-550. I am not sure what other trucks I should look at in this price range. The thing that bugs me about the F-550 is that they only make them in automatic transmissions. The good thing about the F-550 though is that it comes in 4x4.
> 
> Any other trucks I should look at?
> 
> Thanks


Asking this thinking more along the lines of snow plowing ( plowing might be a big priority with your new truck) ..why a manual trans? IMO plowing with a stick sucks and the bigger the truck the more it sucks. My 28,000 GVWR truck is slow especially salting when you need to do a lot of backing in, I can't imagine that with a stick
Good Luck with the new purchase,
Steve


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## sle

Yea I would stray away from the terrastar. Been seeing a lot of those in 4 engine replacement around 70-80 thousand miles.
although, intern. has been good with warranty work.
Sorry but it looks like a repeat of fords 6.4.


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## tsafa

alldayrj;1742678 said:


> You guys missed the part where he is just mowing grass with it. Not sure why he even wants a 550


Well, mowing grass... but also I want to put a big plow blade on it and haul lots of salt and anti-skid to various commercial lots.

I will check out Terrastar too.

So far I have been insisting on a 4x4 since I will be plowing snow with it... that seems to pushe me into a much higher price range.


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## SnoFarmer

Isn't it commercial use any ways if he's using it for a business and not private use?

I know many use private plates and try to skirt licensing our trucks with commercial plates,
Won't he still need a cdl because he is using for a business?


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## Triton2286

SnoFarmer;1744099 said:


> Isn't it commercial use any ways if he's using it for a business and not private use?
> 
> I know many use private plates and try to skirt licensing our trucks with commercial plates.


This whole discussion is about needing a CDL based on the truck. Just because you have commercial plates doesn't mean you need a CDL.


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## SnoFarmer

He may not need a CDL but he will at a minimum need a class "B" or "A"


Commercial driver licenses (CDL) are required to operate vehicles that: Weigh over 26,000 pounds,

Class A
For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 pounds provided the GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of the towed vehicle(s) is more than 10,000 pounds.

Class B
For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any single vehicle with a GVWR , actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 pounds, or such vehicle towing a vehicle with a GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of 10,000 pounds or less.

Class C
For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any single vehicle with a GVWR , actual weight, or registered weight of 26,000 pounds or less, (or such vehicle towing a vehicle less than 10,000 pounds) transporting hazardous materials requiring placarding or designed to carry 16 or more persons including the driver.


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## peteo1

tsafa;1744054 said:


> Well, mowing grass... but also I want to put a big plow blade on it and haul lots of salt and anti-skid to various commercial lots.
> 
> I will check out Terrastar too.
> 
> So far I have been insisting on a 4x4 since I will be plowing snow with it... that seems to pushe me into a much higher price range.


If you're hauling "lots of salt" you might want to check into having your material delivered by triaxle. It would take over half a day with a 550 to equal 1 trip with a triaxle. Secondly why the heck are you going to spend a fortune on a 550 type try k to cut grass? Waste of money imo. If it were me I'd buy a one ton and safe myself some cash. You can be just as productive with a one ton plowing as you can a 550 too. They'll both handle a big vee blade or an expandable plow too. Just my .02


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## Triton2286

SnoFarmer;1744117 said:


> He may not need a CDL but he will at a minimum need a class "B"
> 
> Commercial driver licenses (CDL) are required to operate vehicles that: Weigh over 26,000 pounds,


Yes a CDL is needed for a vehicle that weighs over 26,000lbs, but he is not looking at a truck like that. He is looking at trucks with GVWR's of 26,000.

Clearly you have no idea what is going on in this thread.



SnoFarmer;1744117 said:


> Commercial driver licenses (CDL) pounds,


I don't need you to explain to me what CDL stands for.


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## SnoFarmer

Triton, clearly you don't or can't comprehend what I'm saying.

and no where was I posting what cdl stands for.
any id 10 t can figure that one out...

but maybe it does need clarification for some?


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## Whiffyspark

SnoFarmer;1744127 said:


> Triton, clearly you don't or can't comprehend what I'm saying.
> 
> and no where was I posting what cdl stands for.
> any id 10 t can figure that one out...
> 
> but maybe it does need clarification for some?


You do not need a Cdl under 26 unless you have more than 16 passengers or haz materials


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## SnoFarmer

Are any of you reading or comprehending my posts or are you just posting?



SnoFarmer;1744117 said:


> *He may not need a CDL but he will at a minimum need a class "B" or "A"*
> 
> Commercial driver licenses (CDL) are required to operate vehicles that: Weigh over 26,000 pounds,
> 
> Class A
> For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 pounds provided the GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of the towed vehicle(s) is more than 10,000 pounds.
> 
> Class B
> For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any single vehicle with a GVWR , actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 pounds, or such vehicle towing a vehicle with a GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of 10,000 pounds or less.
> 
> Class C
> For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any single vehicle with a GVWR , actual weight, or registered weight of 26,000 pounds or less, (or such vehicle towing a vehicle less than 10,000 pounds) transporting hazardous materials requiring placarding or designed to carry 16 or more persons including the driver.


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## Triton2286

SnoFarmer;1744127 said:


> and no where was I posting what cdl stands for.





SnoFarmer;1744117 said:


> Commercial driver licenses (CDL)


Yes you did. Stop making yourself look stupid.


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## SnoFarmer

what post came first?
any way...

Hummm
it seams even a class "B" or a "c" can be a commercial lic.

There are three main levels to_ commercial _driving licenses with varying amounts of study involved in each. The Class A CDL is required if you will be driving a long-haul rig with a trailer that can transport more than 10,000 pounds. The Class B CDL is for large trucks hauling trailers with loads of less than 10,000 pounds. Finally, the Class C CDL is required if you will be driving any vehicle with the capacity to transport 16 or more passengers, or that is used to transport hazardous materials.

Read more: http://www.jobmonkey.com/truckdriving/types-cdl.html#ixzz2sB9pnsYO
Follow us: @JobMonkeyNews on Twitter | jobmonkeyjobs on Facebook

so at minimum he will need a class "b" for a single axle dump.
even this id 10 T has a class "b" lic, and I don't have anything licensed to 10k.


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## tsafa

peteo1;1744118 said:


> If you're hauling "lots of salt" you might want to check into having your material delivered by triaxle. It would take over half a day with a 550 to equal 1 trip with a triaxle. Secondly why the heck are you going to spend a fortune on a 550 type try k to cut grass? Waste of money imo. If it were me I'd buy a one ton and safe myself some cash. You can be just as productive with a one ton plowing as you can a 550 too. They'll both handle a big vee blade or an expandable plow too. Just my .02


Now that is a very interesting point that I would like to explore further. My thoughts on getting a 550 size truck was that I could put a big ass blade on it and not stress the transmission much or the whole truck for that matter. I would like to hear opinions on smaller and cheaper trucks that can do the job of plowing large lots. Mind you I will be towing a 9,990 lb trailer too.

I need a dump style truck but I do not need a huge tri-axle for what I am doing. I do need to be able to move a few yards of dirt or gravel when I need to, but that is not what I will be doing most of the time.

Lets skip the CDL debate for now... I will get whatever license upgrade I need when I decide what truck to buy.


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## bad5oh

Just suggesting another type of truck and you don't need a CDL. How about a International 4700 or newer 4300? They can be found cheap if you look hard enough. Our maintenance crews use 4700 lo pros. dt466 motors, autos, pull 10k trailers, and the trucks are 25,999k gvw. The DT motors may not be the most powerful but they are very reliable and pull the trailers no problem. Easy to work on. Around 200k miles they can be rebuilt inframe. Our lo pros plow snow and one carries a sander. With ballast, these trucks have no problem pushing snow. They don't require urea or any of the crap the new diesels have now. The newer 4300 26kgvw models are easier to find with air brakes (people please don't start with the you need a cdl because it has air brakes and its not over 26k gvw) they have 10ft bodies and carry 10yds of mulch and grass water level. Flatbeds with 2x12 wooden sides top to bottom that easily slide out in winter.

The one ton trucks are widely used by a lot of companies in our area. Lots of them buy them because that's what's on the dealer lot. We put our own trucks together. We just found that for our applications, a one ton truck was too small and easily overloaded. It's frightening to see some clowns take a 1 ton truck and built a 12 ft tall leaf box for it and the trailer hitch is almost dragging on the ground when it's full


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## SnoFarmer

The old, Is to, is not arguments.
when no one posts up facts for all to see.

This should explain it rather easily as it has pictures for those that.....

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/cdl_htm/license.htm

If A driver does not both pass the written air brakes test and perform their road test in a vehicle equipped with air brakes, then they receive a restriction which prohibits them from operating an air brake equipped vehicle.


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## jrs.landscaping

SnoFarmer;1744166 said:


> The old, Is to, is not arguments.
> when no one posts up facts for all to see.
> 
> This should explain it rather easily as it has pictures for those that.....
> 
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/cdl_htm/license.htm
> 
> If A driver does not both pass the written air brakes test and perform their road test in a vehicle equipped with air brakes, then they receive a restriction which prohibits them from operating an air brake equipped vehicle.


Anyone can copy and paste a link, the difference is the people who " don't get it" understand what the information means while you clearly do not 

Why would anyone buy a class 6 vehicle to tow a mowing trailer?


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## SnoFarmer

and anyone can just post gibberish with no bases in what is really required.
A link to a source that can't be debated as it clearly states what is required is better than someone posting the gibberish of what they "think" is required like y...



jrs.landscaping;1744177 said:


> Anyone can copy and paste a link, the difference is the people who " don't get it" understand what the information means while you clearly do not
> 
> Why would anyone buy a class 6 vehicle to tow a mowing trailer?


That is none of my business what it is used for.
But having drivers with the right endorsements effects us all.

Then the fact it's used for a business and not private use also effects license requirement...
but some like to skirt the law.


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## Triton2286

SnoFarmer;1744099 said:


> Isn't it commercial use any ways if he's using it for a business and not private use?
> 
> I know many use private plates and try to skirt licensing our trucks with commercial plates,
> *Won't he still need a cdl because he is using for a business?*


I'm pretty sure this was total gibberish too.

Why do you keep coming after others when what you post makes no sense?

You have also edited every post you make to correct yourself because you cannot give correct information the first time.

Seriously just stop.


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## jrs.landscaping

SnoFarmer;1744188 said:


> and anyone can just post gibberish with no bases in what is really required.
> A link to a source that can't be debated as it clearly states what is required is better than someone posting the gibberish of what they "think" is required like y...
> 
> That is none of my business what it is used for.
> But having drivers with the right endorsements effects us all.
> 
> Then the fact it's used for a business and not private use also effects license requirement...
> but some like to skirt the law.


I understand the laws,I have a valid CDL and have operated under my own m/c authority.

Maybe you should just post the links without commenting


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## SnoFarmer

I woun't post a link to this .....
as some just want "opinions" and "I think"

this would exclude a littel one ton dump truck
Businesses (such as landscapers), who operate vehicles or vehicle combinations over 10,000 pounds
gross vehicle weight (GVW) in Minnesota, are subject to various commercial vehicle safety regulations
including:
•
Driver Qualifications (DOT physical, driver’s files, etc);
•
Hours of Service (logbook or timesheet);
•
Vehicle Maintenance (pre-trip inspection, post-trip inspection report); and
•
Hazardous Materials (HM).
Note:Most “one ton trucks” or pickup truck and trailer combinations exceed the 10,000 pounds GVW
and are subject to the safety regulations.


Minimum Qualifications for a Driver
A driver is considered qualified if the driver:
•
Is 18 years old, 21 if transporting HM other than Materials of Trade (MOT). See the hazardous
material section of this fact sheet for information on MOT.
•
Can speak and read English well enough to do the job;
•
Has the ability to drive the vehicle safely;
•
Knows how to properly load and secure cargo;
•
Meets the DOT physical qualifications and possesses a valid medical card; and
•
Has a driver’s license that is valid for the type of vehicle driven.


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## cretebaby

SnoFarmer;1744155 said:


> what post came first?
> any way...
> 
> Hummm
> it seams even a class "B" or a "c" can be a commercial lic.
> 
> There are three main levels to_ commercial _driving licenses with varying amounts of study involved in each. The Class A CDL is required if you will be driving a long-haul rig with a trailer that can transport more than 10,000 pounds. The Class B CDL is for large trucks hauling trailers with loads of less than 10,000 pounds. Finally, the Class C CDL is required if you will be driving any vehicle with the capacity to transport 16 or more passengers, or that is used to transport hazardous materials.
> 
> Read more: http://www.jobmonkey.com/truckdriving/types-cdl.html#ixzz2sB9pnsYO
> Follow us: @JobMonkeyNews on Twitter | jobmonkeyjobs on Facebook
> 
> so at minimum he will need a class "b" for a single axle dump.
> even this id 10 T has a class "b" lic, and I don't have anything licensed to 10k.


Really Sno? Job Monkey? LOL

He doesn't need a class B anything for the trucks being discussed.

Must be getting to cold in northern MN.


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## Whiffyspark

SnoFarmer;1744135 said:


> Are any of you reading or comprehending my posts or are you just posting?


You do NOT need a Cdl for under 26 and a trailer under 10

You NEED a Cdl for 26001, 16 passengers or has materials.

You only need a Cdl with a truck when Youre over 26k with a 10+ trailer

A 10 truck and 16 trailer doesn't need Cdl

13 truck and 14 trailer does


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## tsafa

bad5oh;1744159 said:


> Just suggesting another type of truck and you don't need a CDL. How about a International 4700 or newer 4300? They can be found cheap if you look hard enough. Our maintenance crews use 4700 lo pros. dt466 motors, autos, pull 10k trailers, and the trucks are 25,999k gvw. The DT motors may not be the most powerful but they are very reliable and pull the trailers no problem. Easy to work on. Around 200k miles they can be rebuilt inframe. Our lo pros plow snow and one carries a sander. With ballast, these trucks have no problem pushing snow. They don't require urea or any of the crap the new diesels have now. The newer 4300 26kgvw models are easier to find with air brakes (people please don't start with the you need a cdl because it has air brakes and its not over 26k gvw) they have 10ft bodies and carry 10yds of mulch and grass water level. Flatbeds with 2x12 wooden sides top to bottom that easily slide out in winter.
> 
> The one ton trucks are widely used by a lot of companies in our area. Lots of them buy them because that's what's on the dealer lot. We put our own trucks together. We just found that for our applications, a one ton truck was too small and easily overloaded. It's frightening to see some clowns take a 1 ton truck and built a 12 ft tall leaf box for it and the trailer hitch is almost dragging on the ground when it's full


Lots of good info I can use. Thanks

Should I only be looking at 4x4 only? or 4x2 good too with ballast in the back? I don't want to get stuck in the same snow I am trying to plow.


----------



## cretebaby

tsafa;1744309 said:


> Lots of good info I can use. Thanks
> 
> Should I only be looking at 4x4 only? or 4x2 good too with ballast in the back? I don't want to get stuck in the same snow I am trying to plow.


What kind of lots you plow?

Level? 2wd and some ballast/counterweight will do.


----------



## cretebaby

For anyone with wool over their eyes.



> Question 6: A driver operates a tractor of exactly 26,000 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), towing a trailer of exactly 10,000 pounds GVWR, for a GCWR of 36,000 pounds. HM and passengers are not involved. Is it a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV)s and does the driver need a CDL?
> 
> Guidance: No


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=383.5&guidence=Y


----------



## Whiffyspark

cretebaby;1744364 said:


> What kind of lots you plow?
> 
> Level? 2wd and some ballast/counterweight will do.


Good question. If you need to maneuver a lot a 550 will turn tighter than a 350. 650s are usually too big for most lots


----------



## tsafa

cretebaby;1744364 said:


> What kind of lots you plow?
> 
> Level? 2wd and some ballast/counterweight will do.


My lots range from 200'x200' to 1,200x1,200 ft. Mostly flat.

Thanks for that feedback. I expected the answer to be that I should only consider a 4x4.


----------



## NPMinc

First off you say you want to "put a big ass blade" on and haul lots of salt to commercial jobs. But then say your primary business is mowing and you may need to haul a few yards of mulch/soil occasionally. 
Seems to me you would be just fine with a one ton with a dump bed or even a dump insert. 
Also seems to me like you are new to the business with the big ass blade/lots of salt comments or you would know you have NO business taking on lots that would truly be large enough to need a "big ass blade" or that huge amount of salt just owning one truck and Without additional heavy equipment/loaders etc. Just because you get a big truck also doesnt guarantee that you will land the "big" jobs. Also a one ton will give you much better manueverabilty on your smaller lots as well as with your residential summer work. As others have said you can get an expanding blade plow etc and a box/undertailgate spreader which most likely will be enough for your needs


----------



## NPMinc

Also another factor to consider Is that your expenses (fuel/insurance/maintenance/dmv fees etc) will go up.....some substantially, the larger/higher weight class you go so you must be certain that the added capability will generate enough additional income to be worth it


----------



## OldSchoolPSD

IMHO equipment is far superior to trucks for doing lots anyways. Maybe keep the truck you have and pick up a trailer, skid steer, and a pusher box. Just a thought.


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## bub3020

Seems like a 4wd 450 or 550 should do what u want


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## jomama45

NPMinc;1744801 said:


> Also another factor to consider Is that your expenses (fuel/insurance/maintenance/dmv fees etc) will go up.....some substantially, the larger/higher weight class you go so you must be certain that the added capability will generate enough additional income to be worth it


If you're accomplishing 2X the work, you'll almost always come out ahead with the larger truck, unless of course, he were to buy a lemon.............


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## tsafa

bub3020;1744979 said:


> Seems like a 4wd 450 or 550 should do what u want


yep... I suspected from the start that was the right size truck for me. I just wanted to hear some more knowledgeable opinions and if I should look at any other brands besides Ford.

Most of the feedback here has been very helpful here. Thank you everyone.


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## Whiffyspark

tsafa;1745275 said:


> yep... I suspected from the start that was the right size truck for me. I just wanted to hear some more knowledgeable opinions and if I should look at any other brands besides Ford.
> 
> Most of the feedback here has been very helpful here. Thank you everyone.


Ford kind of has the throne for that size lol. Unless you want to go new the rams/sterlings are the only other choice


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## Snow Business 1

snopushin ford;1742611 said:


> there isn't that much "crap"


I strongly disagree.

The biggest pita with a cdl now is that insurance companies are coming down much harder on cdl drivers. If I get a speeding ticket in my personal car I can go get court supervision and its suppose to be off my record. Now however if you have a cdl that ticket get put on the record regardless. I'm constantly fighting with my insurance company about covering a couple of my employees who have cdl's. One guy has a minor (5K in damage) accident in a non-cdl truck and two speeding tickets in the last 3 years (which he got court supervision) and my insurance company won't insure him.

My own deal, I have no accidents and two speeding tickets in the last 3-4 years and they want to raise questions. And I'm the owner of the company.

If I could stay under a cdl license I would.


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## Snow Business 1

tsafa;1745275 said:


> yep... I suspected from the start that was the right size truck for me. I just wanted to hear some more knowledgeable opinions and if I should look at any other brands besides Ford.
> 
> Most of the feedback here has been very helpful here. Thank you everyone.


We run the chevy 3500 crew cabs with a 10' dump box 4x4 and love the flexiblity they give us during lawn and snow seasons. They plow no problem, haul snow if needed and will handle all your lawn maintenance needs from the sounds of it.


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## tsafa

Snow Business 1;1745307 said:


> We run the chevy 3500 crew cabs with a 10' dump box 4x4 and love the flexiblity they give us during lawn and snow seasons. They plow no problem, haul snow if needed and will handle all your lawn maintenance needs from the sounds of it.


I just came across this new Chevy 3500 for 36k in 4x4 and its making my mouth water. I really like it.

http://www.commercialtrucktrader.co...LET-SILVERADO-3500HD-DRW-WORK-TRUCK-111400932


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## Whiffyspark

The big difference is payload between one tons and 550s


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## Snow Business 1

tsafa;1745325 said:


> I just came across this new Chevy 3500 for 36k in 4x4 and its making my mouth water. I really like it.
> 
> http://www.commercialtrucktrader.co...LET-SILVERADO-3500HD-DRW-WORK-TRUCK-111400932


Beautiful truck. Just way the option if you want regular cab or crew cab. Do you plan on expanding? The crews are great because you can fit 6 guys legally in them so for a larger lawn maintenance crew they work or shoveling crew.

We buy new 3500 Crew cab 4x4 for around 43-45K.


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## tsafa

Any thoughts on gas vs diesel for a 3500? 

I know Ford makes their F350 in either. I don't know if Chevy makes in diesel too?


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## Triton2286

tsafa;1745441 said:


> Any thoughts on gas vs diesel for a 3500?
> 
> I know Ford makes their F350 in either. I don't know if Chevy makes in diesel too?


Of course Chevy offers the Durmax in the 2500 and 3500's.


----------



## Snow Business 1

tsafa;1745441 said:


> Any thoughts on gas vs diesel for a 3500?
> 
> I know Ford makes their F350 in either. I don't know if Chevy makes in diesel too?


I almost positive they make the 3500 in a diesel as well. In most cases, it depends on many miles you will be putting on the truck. My maintenance trucks only get about 3500-600- miles a year so i stick with the gas engine. I believe the rule of thumb is if you drive over 18-20K a year you should go diesel. Or if you are constantly pulling a heavy trailer. The gas engines are significantly less expensive then the diesel.


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## tsafa

Yeah... I was told they diesels run about $8,000 more... OUCH !!!


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## Winter Land Man

tsafa;1745639 said:


> Yeah... I was told they diesels run about $8,000 more... OUCH !!!


The diesels have the extra power to haul the load. I owned gas 1-tons many years, and then I used diesel trucks on the town and stuff, and man, what a difference. Diesel w/central hydraulics for the plow and sander. Perfect set-up.


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## tsafa

What do you guys think of this deal.

http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/1999-FORD-F550-111597366

1999 F550 dumptruck. 89,000 miles with plowblade. 7.3 litter powerstroke. $12,200.

Only drawback is that it had a cracked frame over the duel axle that was plated over and welded.


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## Triton2286

"We have driven this truck at least 110 miles with the plow on with no problems."

Can't beat that lol.

At first I though that the ad was wrong about the motor because it has the gas badge instead of the power stroke one. Maybe it is wrong?

Mounting the plow lights above the cab is sure a first for me.


----------



## WilliamOak

Triton2286;1756749 said:


> "We have driven this truck at least 110 miles with the plow on with no problems."
> 
> Can't beat that lol.
> 
> At first I though that the ad was wrong about the motor because it has the gas badge instead of the power stroke one. Maybe it is wrong?
> 
> Mounting the plow lights above the cab is sure a first for me.


The early '99s all had a powerstroke badge like that on the fender rather than the door.


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## tsafa

I am kind of relieved that I did not get any bad feedback....then again everyone may be out plowing snow.


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## alldayrj

How do you snap a frame? I wouldnt touch that truck unless it was dirt cheap. Like 5k


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## Maclawnco

It's been repainted. That's a pig wearing lipstick.


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## Gtep

We run international 4700's great truck with reliable engines and transmissions. Although once you hook a trailer to it you must have a class A. if the combination of the two are greater than 26001 you must have doubles endorsement "class A".


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## peteo1

Gtep;1758060 said:


> We run international 4700's great truck with reliable engines and transmissions. Although once you hook a trailer to it you must have a class A. if the combination of the two are greater than 26001 you must have doubles endorsement "class A".


I thought"doubles" was for pulling double trailers but I could be wrong. Do they offer a 4700 in 4wd? If not then I would think that would really be the only advantage the fords have over the internationals


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## Gtep

peteo1;1758106 said:


> I thought"doubles" was for pulling double trailers but I could be wrong. Do they offer a 4700 in 4wd? If not then I would think that would really be the only advantage the fords have over the internationals


I know in ohio that is how it works with trailers. I would check with you local BMV although i am pretty sure its the same. 
As far as the 4wd they do not offer the 4700 series in 4wd. But i am here to tell you with weight they will go anywhere.


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## cretebaby

Gtep;1758060 said:


> We run international 4700's great truck with reliable engines and transmissions. Although once you hook a trailer to it you must have a class A. if the combination of the two are greater than 26001 you must have doubles endorsement "class A".


Do you know the difference between stupidity and intelligence?


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## Mark Oomkes

Popcorn, get your popcorn!


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## Triton2286

Mark Oomkes;1758409 said:


> Popcorn, get your popcorn!


I'll take a bag! How much?


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## clark lawn

Gtep;1758343 said:


> I know in ohio that is how it works with trailers. I would check with you local BMV although i am pretty sure its the same.
> As far as the 4wd they do not offer the 4700 series in 4wd. But i am here to tell you with weight they will go anywhere.


Wrong on both statements


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## javaboy

I couldn't resist - I signed up just to post.

I am a highway plow operator for a small municipality. We operate several types of smaller dump trucks.

First off.... Class A/B. A easy way is if the truck has a GVWR of 26,001 or more and is a straight truck (Box truck, dump truck, bus) not pulling a heavy trailer (10,000 LBS or less) a Class B is required.

If the COMBINATION (truck and trailer) is 26,001 LBS or more AND is pulling a trailer then a Class A is required.

CDL is under Federal Regulations so it doesn't really change state to state although there could be farm and intrastate exemptions.

I do not do a lot of parking lots the only one being at our transit center which we normally use a grader for. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

Most of our trucks are Class 7 which do require CDL. We do have a few Class 6 trucks also which do not require a CDL.

For plowing I would seriously consider getting a automatic with a good transmission. Personally I have had good luck with Allison Transmissions. Trying to shift though gears while plowing/sanding can be tough especially if it is a diesel with a small power band.

Also I wouldn't put too much pressure on having AWD. Good tires and a little sand is all you really need. Also a locking rear differential can help you out of sticky spots.

Like others have mentioned I think you can get a better truck then the Ford. International make some good trucks for a lot less money.

As for why you want the truck... I get it. A small dump trucks have there place but I do think they are limited. Once you add up the cost of making three or four trips vs hiring out a Class 8 dump, or a Belly Dump you probably won't come out ahead.


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## cretebaby

javaboy;1759170 said:


> If the COMBINATION (truck and trailer) is 26,001 LBS or more AND is pulling a trailer then a Class A is required.


Welcome.

Your statement here is wrong. Or shall I say incomplete.


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## Mark Oomkes

cretebaby;1759229 said:


> Welcome.
> 
> Your statement here is wrong. Or shall I say incomplete.


Kinda strange since he stated it correctly in his opening line.

And welcome, pictures are a requirement if you're from Alaska.


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## javaboy

True. It is incomplete. I guess to complete it I should say that the combination vehicle needs a tow unit of at least 10,001 LBS. I guess that is why you see pickup trucks with smaller goosenecks running with stickers that say GCWR 36,000.


I'll get some pictures. Lots of down time here to clean equipment so its nice and shiny right now.


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## Whiffyspark

javaboy;1759406 said:


> True. It is incomplete. I guess to complete it I should say that the combination vehicle needs a tow unit of at least 10,001 LBS. I guess that is why you see pickup trucks with smaller goosenecks running with stickers that say GCWR 36,000.
> 
> I'll get some pictures. Lots of down time here to clean equipment so its nice and shiny right now.


Trailer has to be over 10. Tow vechile doesn't matter


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## javaboy

I've read so much on this thread I confused myself. I'm done. I would hope before anyone drives a vehicle they know for sure they can legally drive it.


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## Mister Plow

All this "conversation" about CDLs is seems soooo confusing, but........... Does this one simple explanation fit most all situations?

Towing a trailer over 10,001 GVWR............. Class A
Straight truck over 26,001 GVWR............... Class B
Period?

Lemme know if I'm wrong. Seems too simple, though.
Would you ever need a Class A without a trailer?


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## javaboy

No. If you never have a tow unit (trailer) then a CDL A would never be required.

But you could have a trailer over 10,001 and not require a CDL IF the combined weight rating is less then 26,001. 

Example truck at 8,000 and trailer at 11,000


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## Whiffyspark

Mister Plow;1759792 said:


> All this "conversation" about CDLs is seems soooo confusing, but........... Does this one simple explanation fit most all situations?
> 
> Towing a trailer over 10,001 GVWR............. Class A
> Straight truck over 26,001 GVWR............... Class B
> Period?
> 
> Lemme know if I'm wrong. Seems too simple, though.
> Would you ever need a Class A without a trailer?


You're correct. But the combo for a has to be over 26 combined.

If you're under 26 no cdl


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## cretebaby

Mister Plow;1759792 said:


> All this "conversation" about CDLs is seems soooo confusing, but........... Does this one simple explanation fit most all situations?
> 
> Towing a trailer over 10,001 GVWR............. Class A
> Straight truck over 26,001 GVWR............... Class B
> Period?
> 
> Lemme know if I'm wrong. Seems too simple, though.
> Would you ever need a Class A without a trailer?


You're wrong. And no


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## cretebaby

cretebaby;1758352 said:


> Do you know the difference between stupidity and intelligence?


Apparently grasshopper is to shy to answer. Anyone care to help him out.LOL


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## clark lawn

Still no answer. Maybe he is trying to get his tanker endorsement since the truck has a gas tank on it.


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## Gtep

? Aren't we all on this site to learn/teach/bull-crap with each other? If i made an error in my response don't you think educating me would go a little further than insulting me? Who knew Plowsite was full of Immature a--holes!

Grasshopper Out!


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## OldSchoolPSD

Makes you wonder how many of these experts hold a CDL.

You'll never get a strait answer on a forums. Too much misinformation floating around. The answer is on the FMCSA website if you want to look it up. I'm not going to post it because I don't feel like debating all the keyboard truckers.

-CDL A Hazmat/Doubles/Passenger endorsement holder since '01


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## cretebaby

OldSchoolPSD;1770670 said:


> Makes you wonder how many of these experts hold a CDL.
> 
> You'll never get a strait answer on a forums. Too much misinformation floating around. The answer is on the FMCSA website if you want to look it up. I'm not going to post it because I don't feel like debating all the keyboard truckers.
> 
> -CDL A Hazmat/Doubles/Passenger endorsement holder since '01


ROFLMAO.

One would need knowledge on a subject to have any reasonable debate.

Based on past threads you lack that feature.



Gtep;1770630 said:


> ? Aren't we all on this site to learn/teach/bull-crap with each other? If i made an error in my response don't you think educating me would go a little further than insulting me? Who knew Plowsite was full of Immature a--holes!
> 
> Grasshopper Out!


How does blowing the smoke you blow "learn/teach/bull-crap" anyone?

I'm disappointed. You didn't answer mu question. LOL


----------



## OldSchoolPSD

^Theres that keyboard trucker I was talking about.


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## 1olddogtwo

Mark Oomkes;1742381 said:


> Listen cheese wheel, I'm trying to boost my post count, I have several lost years to make up for.


 best post in this entire thread!


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## clark lawn

Saying that you need a doubles endorsement because it is a combo vehicle, how do you even debate that? 

CDL with everything but HAZMAT since they came out with it BTW. Had HAZMAT until 9-11 when they came out with all the BS rules for it.


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## leigh

My head is spinning with all this cdl talk,seems like it never ends! Please tell me that everyone here that drives a commercial veh of over 10,000 lbs has their dot medical card ? No discussion needed, you need one


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## jomama45

cretebaby;1770674 said:


> ROFLMAO.
> 
> One would need knowledge on a subject to have any reasonable debate.
> 
> Based on past threads you lack that feature.


LMAO

But, but, but, he's had a CDL since '01????????????? :laughing:


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## jomama45

1olddogtwo;1770782 said:


> best post in this entire thread!


Don't egg him/her on..................


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## cretebaby

OldSchoolPSD;1770709 said:


> ^Theres that keyboard trucker I was talking about.


Says the guy with an air brake endorsement. LMAO


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## OldSchoolPSD

Ouch that hurt.

If I cared what some no-name jackbillie from bum **** Iowa though, I might be offended. I'll check in later though, there's a front coming in and I have equipment to move.


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## 1olddogtwo

Feel the hammer coming down....

These CDL posts are better the ford vs Chevy vs ram or western vs boss vs fisher.


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## UltraLwn&Lndscp

I don't understand the debate, you guys are too funny.


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## Whiffyspark

This is about as simple as it's going to get. This is NOT complicated if you take the time to read it and throw all the random thoughts out of your brain.


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## Mark Oomkes

Whiffyspark;1771160 said:


> This is about as simple as it's going to get. This is NOT complicated if you take the time to read it and throw all the random thoughts out of your brain.


But there's nothing about an air brake\break endorsement?????

Or doubles??????


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## twinbrothers

And nothing for 16000 to 25999, Witch should be a class c


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## jrs.landscaping

leigh;1770977 said:


> My head is spinning with all this cdl talk,seems like it never ends! Please tell me that everyone here that drives a commercial veh of over 10,000 lbs has their dot medical card ?* No discussion needed, you need one*


..............

Actually I don't, I'm Intrastate exempt :waving:


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## Whiffyspark

twinbrothers;1771199 said:


> And nothing for 16000 to 25999, Witch should be a class c


Huh????

NO


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## Mark Oomkes

twinbrothers;1771199 said:


> And nothing for 16000 to 25999, Witch should be a class c


No it isn't.

And why not a warlock?


----------



## leigh

jrs.landscaping;1771200 said:


> ..............
> 
> Actually I don't, I'm Intrastate exempt :waving:


 I guess you don't use your truck for plowing! so which is it -farmer? corpses. beekeeper
I stand corrected, you must be one of the following -
You operate in excepted interstate commerce when you drive a CMV in interstate commerce only for the following excepted activities: To transport school children and/or school staff between home and school
As Federal, State or local government employees
To transport human corpses or sick or injured persons
Fire truck or rescue vehicle drivers during emergencies and other related activities
Primarily in the transportation of propane winter heating fuel when responding to an emergency condition requiring immediate response such as damage to a propane gas system after a storm or flooding
In response to a pipeline emergency condition requiring immediate response such as a pipeline leak or rupture
In custom harvesting on a farm or to transport farm machinery and supplies used in the custom harvesting operation to and from a farm or to transport custom harvested crops to storage or market
Beekeeper in the seasonal transportation of bees
Controlled and operated by a farmer, but is not a combination vehicle (power unit and towed unit), and is used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery or farm supplies (no placard-able hazardous materials) to and from a farm and within 150 air-miles of the farm
As a private motor carrier of passengers for non-business purposes
To transport migrant workers


----------



## jrs.landscaping

leigh;1771220 said:


> I guess you don't use your truck for plowing! so which is it -farmer? corpses. beekeeper
> I stand corrected, you must be one of the following -
> You operate in excepted *interstate* commerce when you drive a CMV in *interstate* commerce only for the following excepted activities: To transport school children and/or school staff between home and school
> As Federal, State or local government employees
> To transport human corpses or sick or injured persons
> Fire truck or rescue vehicle drivers during emergencies and other related activities
> Primarily in the transportation of propane winter heating fuel when responding to an emergency condition requiring immediate response such as damage to a propane gas system after a storm or flooding
> In response to a pipeline emergency condition requiring immediate response such as a pipeline leak or rupture
> In custom harvesting on a farm or to transport farm machinery and supplies used in the custom harvesting operation to and from a farm or to transport custom harvested crops to storage or market
> Beekeeper in the seasonal transportation of bees
> Controlled and operated by a farmer, but is not a combination vehicle (power unit and towed unit), and is used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery or farm supplies (no placard-able hazardous materials) to and from a farm and within 150 air-miles of the farm
> As a private motor carrier of passengers for non-business purposes
> To transport migrant workers


I said *INTRASTATE* Thumbs Up

You do know the difference right?


----------



## leigh

jrs.landscaping;1771231 said:


> I said *INTRASTATE* Thumbs Up
> 
> You do know the difference right?


Interstate- between states
Intrastate - within the confines of state lines Thumbs Up
Intrastate Commerce -- Excepted or Non-excepted:

You operate in excepted intrastate commerce when you *drive a commercial motor vehicle only in intrastate commerce activities that your state of licensure has determined do not require you to meet the state's medical certification requirements. 
*
You operate in non-excepted intrastate commerce when you drive a commercial motor vehicle only in intrastate commerce and are required to meet your state of licensure's medical certification requirements.

If you operate in both excepted intrastate commerce and non-excepted intrastate commerce, you must choose non-excepted intrastate commerce.

In my haste to "stir the pot" I've only achieved falling into the abyss of cdl hell I'm going to quit while I'm partially ,sort of, along the lines of being fairly accurate, ok forget I'm wrong ,again!:salute:


----------



## jrs.landscaping

^^^^^^

Technically we're both right, there is no right or wrong answer, it just shows how different states are with their laws. Which is another reason the CDL threads become confusing, both parties can be right and wrong at the same time


----------



## alldayrj

Can you catch CDL from kissng someone who has it?


----------



## twinbrothers

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtnff0e32a62d8o/CDLFlowchart-2013.pdf
IL cdl flow chart


----------



## Whiffyspark

twinbrothers;1771315 said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtnff0e32a62d8o/CDLFlowchart-2013.pdf
> IL cdl flow chart


It says right on your chart you don't need a cdl.

class c NON - cdl

Class C is a regular license..

:waving:


----------



## twinbrothers

class d is regular you need a non cdl c but have to still have to take a road test a written test and have a medical card


----------



## twinbrothers

and your right I should have said non cdl c


----------



## cretebaby

Mark Oomkes;1771175 said:


> But there's nothing about an air brake\break endorsement?????
> 
> Or doubles??????


Do you need an educaton from the old school of having a cdl with air break endorsement for a whole whopping 13 years? ROFLMFAO


----------



## OldSchoolPSD

This thread still going? Damn you fellas need to find some work or something...


----------



## clark lawn

leigh;1770977 said:


> My head is spinning with all this cdl talk,seems like it never ends! Please tell me that everyone here that drives a commercial veh of over 10,000 lbs has their dot medical card ? No discussion needed, you need one


Can't even get that right. Not all states require med card for >10K.


----------

