# Just got laughed out of a bid have prices dropped?



## rscritch (Nov 15, 2011)

I met with an apartment complex this afternoon. New to me. One of my guys use to plow it and knew them. they are 100,620 sq ft of parking lot. pretty straight forward places evenly spaced to stack snow ect. using my two calculators that I use with a 2" trigger I had a 2" to 4": snow plowing costing 726 or 776 plus salt and my salt bill at 871 or 915 depending on caculator. I've used my two calculators for 2 years now and had good luck fyi no side walks. I was told they have other bids down in the 400's on snow and half of my salt price has any one else noticed a down turn in snow pricing?


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

There's always gonna be a downturn in snow plowing prices from the low ballers. It depends how bad they want the bid.


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## rscritch (Nov 15, 2011)

I wasn't sure if it was bs or there really are people out there doing it that cheap or if I screwed it up. we usually only do parking lots and driveways. Not a lot of apartments so who knows.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Apartments are a big PITA. Some tenants will come move the cars, some will wait till 3 hours after the last flake falls, some wait 2 weeks.


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## BC Handyman (Dec 15, 2010)

they prob got used to a cheap deal from last contractor & then this year tried to call a few "noobs" got low quotes & figured thats what the price is/should be. Truth is alot of diff budgets for diff people, with diff expectations. Maybe they used to a "ok" job/pricing, but then again maybe prices are dropping, lol I don't know squat about Il, was it low snow years last few years?


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

rscritch;1845409 said:


> I met with an apartment complex this afternoon. New to me. One of my guys use to plow it and knew them. they are 100,620 sq ft of parking lot. pretty straight forward places evenly spaced to stack snow ect. using my two calculators that I use with a 2" trigger I had a 2" to 4": snow plowing costing 726 or 776 plus salt and my salt bill at 871 or 915 depending on caculator. I've used my two calculators for 2 years now and had good luck fyi no side walks. I was told they have other bids down in the 400's on snow and half of my salt price has any one else noticed a down turn in snow pricing?


your numbers to me vs. sq ft. , in MY AREA , are fair . let them have it . big deal ? its not the first time you'll lose a fair bid . sure as hell wont be the last . just look around this site ....they give it away here .:laughing:

we'll continue to stand firm , unlike the others . when the contract sheet hits the fan (blizzard), my phone blows up with comments like , "HELP, WE WERE BONED ". resulting in a 100% profit jobbers. they are at your mercy .

while the kids hide under the covers


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

rscritch;1845409 said:


> I met with an apartment complex this afternoon. New to me. One of my guys use to plow it and knew them. they are 100,620 sq ft of parking lot. pretty straight forward places evenly spaced to stack snow ect. using my two calculators that I use with a 2" trigger I had a 2" to 4": snow plowing costing 726 or 776 plus salt and my salt bill at 871 or 915 depending on caculator. I've used my two calculators for 2 years now and had good luck fyi no side walks. I was told they have other bids down in the 400's on snow and half of my salt price has any one else noticed a down turn in snow pricing?


If I understand your numbers you are charging about $900 for about a ton of salt. If I turned in those numbers they would laugh at me too.


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## Fatality (Jul 14, 2009)

So at approx 2 acres you are charging 700? At an acre an hr you are making 350/hr? Something doesn't add up.

2 acres is maybe a ton of salt on the heavy side of an app and your saying it costs 850 to salt?


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## jerpa (Feb 4, 2014)

It seems high to me but what are your yearly averages? Overhead costs are always there so I understand price per push increases as yearly snowfall decreases. I'd bid it at about $400 per push and about the same for salt and I seem to be a bit higher than average for my area. In Philly I'd bid twice that but they get half as much snowfall as we do.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Keep the bid handy if they call you this winter because of non performance on the contractors part and hand them a three/five year contract with built in price increases.

If they had a cheap guy last year who did not return that should tell you they weren't making enough money, had poor performance or weren't getting paid. If they couldn't make money in the snow business last year they need to rethink the pricing schedule, if it was an performance issue the customer needs to rethink their budget and if they weren't getting paid you need to run like he11.

Perhaps they did (rethink their prices) and this years pricing kicked off the customers search for another sucker.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

jerpa;1845471 said:


> It seems high to me but what are your yearly averages? Overhead costs are always there so I understand price per push increases as yearly snowfall decreases. I'd bid it at about $400 per push and about the same for salt and I seem to be a bit higher than average for my area. In Philly I'd bid twice that but they get half as much snowfall as we do.


Snowfall rate, cost of living, and a lot of other factors make it impossible to compare rates outside a very small region. Everyone's cost of sales is so different.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

I just bought a new to me skid loader, a 20' shipping container and 25 tons of salt so I can handle my own salt supply this year, as apposed to purchasing from one of my larger competitors. Because of the increased expense, I included a notice with all my contracts this year explaining the equipment purchase and that I did it to avoid being cut off again like last winter which sent me scrambling every storm to find salt. I raised all pricing approx. 10% and thus far, have only lost one out of my 10 customers. It was a church who said they were going in house this year. All others have returned signed contracts except one, who stated by phone that they were staying with me, just hadn't gotten it approved and signed by corporate yet.


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

I don't claim to know anything about pricing in IL but the numbers you gave seem really high. From what I have seen apartment bids seem to go get pretty cheap and they are a pain to plow.


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## rscritch (Nov 15, 2011)

Straight plowing it's 2.5 hours. It's on the far north corner of town add .25 and the hassle of a apartment building. About another .5 at 225 an hour and there is my price I use excel and quick books to estimate every job and to make sure I don't miss any thing but on a labor break down that's where it came from. As for salt I charge 1260 per ton.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

rscritch;1845532 said:


> As for salt I charge 1260 per ton.


That's a misprint right?


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

1260 per ton!!! What is your direct cost of the salt?


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## Advantage (Nov 7, 2007)

rscritch;1845532 said:


> Straight plowing it's 2.5 hours. It's on the far north corner of town add .25 and the hassle of a apartment building. About another .5 at 225 an hour and there is my price I use excel and quick books to estimate every job and to make sure I don't miss any thing but on a labor break down that's where it came from. As for salt I charge 1260 per ton.


Well that explains why your bid numbers are so high.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

rscritch;1845532 said:


> Straight plowing it's 2.5 hours. It's on the far north corner of town add .25 and the hassle of a apartment building. About another .5 at 225 an hour and there is my price I use excel and quick books to estimate every job and to make sure I don't miss any thing but on a labor break down that's where it came from. As for salt I charge 1260 per ton.


 I thought those numbers were only possible in Phila. :laughing:

If I charged that for salt I wouldn't have to worry about the shortage. I wouldn't have any customers :laughing:

Glad to hear you can charge that


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## jerpa (Feb 4, 2014)

If that plowing price included a second cleanup trip, or waiting for cars to be moved to clear the entire lot at once, I'd be close to that. Otherwise my price above would be per trip to plow what could be plowed. I wish I could get 12x the cost of salt.


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## rscritch (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm at about 196 a ton , delivered so only 6 times cost and I have to store it, and load it and make sure I all ways have it. It's 3 times the cost of bagged. I'd rather have fewer customers that I can take excellent care of than alot that I cant.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Another $50k revenue generator over a 2 day period.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Fatality;1845452 said:


> So at approx 2 acres you are charging 700? At an acre an hr you are making 350/hr? Something doesn't add up.
> 
> 2 acres is maybe a ton of salt on the heavy side of an app and your saying it costs 850 to salt?


BTW, I'm relieved to see that someone actually ran the numbers to show how ridiculous they really are.


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## doo-man (Feb 22, 2009)

Lets do some simple math, he's charging $1260 per ton applied, his cost is $196 a ton delivered which makes him $1064 per ton after cost or 0.47 per pound applied... Not to bad since I average 0.30-0.35 per pound applied.

Trucks dont fuel themselves, insurance doesnt pay itself, wages dont come off trees Etc Etc...


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## jerpa (Feb 4, 2014)

Except he's taking 3.5 hours to clear that lot at 225 per hour.


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## somervillelawn (Sep 24, 2009)

In my neck of the woods that would go for about $350 per push and $350 in salt.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;1845581 said:


> BTW, I'm relieved to see that someone actually ran the numbers to show how ridiculous they really are.


I ran the numbers through my excel spreadsheet using 500 sf/min at $135 and came up with $466 thats when I realized I must be a crazy lowballer...so I didn't respond...I didn't look at the salt because I know in the .teens/lb I would be "better off in bed"...


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

I never say this but that's crazy high numbers.


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## Fatality (Jul 14, 2009)

rscritch;1845562 said:


> I'm at about 196 a ton , delivered so only 6 times cost and I have to store it, and load it and make sure I all ways have it. It's 3 times the cost of bagged. I'd rather have fewer customers that I can take excellent care of than alot that I cant.


Just a heads up McLean county materials has salt for 140.00 a ton. They are guaranteed not to run out. Why buy and store yourself if you can buy it cheaper in town?

I still don't understand the 6x cost of salt to spread?


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## rscritch (Nov 15, 2011)

I guess I'm confused here. I read post after post of people asking for help to price a property. They get told time and time again to figure their costs and account for everything. I know my costs and margins. Different areas different clients all support different quality and pricing. I dont show up on a job for less Than 450 during the rest of the year so why shouldn't I make a similar rate in the winter. I dont need to be out pushing snow but do enjoy it. I dont claim to be the cheap guy. I tired it once and it wasn't for me. I do claim to take care of my customers and do a fantastic job. I get called to fix what other "contractors" screwed up constantly. I can do that because I charge accordingly. I'd rather have 10 accounts that all think they are my only customer than 50 or 100 accounts that are barley happy and I dont make squat on. I'm sorry if your not able to charge 225 an hour for snow or 1260 a ton for salt. I lost this bid and will lose many others but I'm not in the phone book and you have to have gotten my name from some where and that usually means something.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Longae29;1845615 said:


> I ran the numbers through my excel spreadsheet using 500 sf/min at $135 and came up with $466 thats when I realized I must be a crazy lowballer...so I didn't respond...I didn't look at the salt because I know in the .teens/lb I would be "better off in bed"...


If I did it strictly by numbers and our average snowfall, I'd be embarrassed to post my numbers.

And I could still make money.


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## Fatality (Jul 14, 2009)

There is a fine line between making a profit and taking advantage of customers. Each to his own but if someone comes in and explains salt to one of your customers and how much it costs in reality they will make you look like the bad guy. We are all in business to make money but at 1200+ a ton when salt is 15% your cost could come back to bite you in the ass someday.


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## jerpa (Feb 4, 2014)

How do you take advantage of a customer when you are paid an agreed upon price to perform a service and you perform it well? The price is irrelevant if both parties are satisfied. There is no deception. Do these customers have no other options? Get what you can and sell service not price. At 3.5 hours I don't think the hourly rate is too far off the mark and it's what I aim for.


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## rscritch (Nov 15, 2011)

I don't take advantage of any one I tell every person that I give a bid to to get other estimates, I know I would. 3 is what I recommend. I give each potential customer a list of references and explain what we do differently than every one else. I explain why I am worth what I charge. I try to educate my customers on the proper way to do things as an educated customer is the best kind. If the customer feels comfortable with using some one else that is fine and I dont mind a bit. There is plenty of work to go around. I dont buy my salt at Mclean county as I give my business else where. I support people who support me.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Out of curiosity how many tons do you use a year? None of my business I know but I am curious. Again glad you can get those numbers.


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

$1260 a ton... This has to be a joke. I understand markup but that is crazy.


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## rscritch (Nov 15, 2011)

to help every one understand when I started doing snow I bought ice melter by the 50 lb bag. which worked out to be .21 per lb. Its not a great price as I bought it by the bag then. I used a times 3 times materials which put me at .63 per lb applied or .63 x 2000 = 1260 per ton price. Yes I have started buying in bulk which is a savings to me in order to offset the location, bin, loader ect. you might not agree but thats where the number came from.


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## Advantage (Nov 7, 2007)

rscritch;1845676 said:


> I don't take advantage of any one I tell every person that I give a bid to to get other estimates, I know I would. 3 is what I recommend. I give each potential customer a list of references and explain what we do differently than every one else. I explain why I am worth what I charge. I try to educate my customers on the proper way to do things as an educated customer is the best kind. If the customer feels comfortable with using some one else that is fine and I dont mind a bit. There is plenty of work to go around. I dont buy my salt at Mclean county as I give my business else where. I support people who support me.


Although I did think your numbers were crazy high, I support what you wrote here. Well said, and more power to you for being able to operate that way.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;1845567 said:


> Another $50k revenue generator over a 2 day period.


That by April will be complaining about not getting paid.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rscritch;1845676 said:


> I don't take advantage of any one I tell every person that I give a bid to to get other estimates, I know I would. 3 is what I recommend. I give each potential customer a list of references and explain what we do differently than every one else. I explain why I am worth what I charge. I try to educate my customers on the proper way to do things as an educated customer is the best kind. If the customer feels comfortable with using some one else that is fine and I dont mind a bit. There is plenty of work to go around. I dont buy my salt at Mclean county as I give my business else where. I support people who support me.





rscritch;1845701 said:


> to help every one understand when I started doing snow I bought ice melter by the 50 lb bag. which worked out to be .21 per lb. Its not a great price as I bought it by the bag then. I used a times 3 times materials which put me at .63 per lb applied or .63 x 2000 = 1260 per ton price. Yes I have started buying in bulk which is a savings to me in order to offset the location, bin, loader ect. you might not agree but thats where the number came from.


I don't think anyone is telling you that the way you do business is wrong.

But, the way your question is posed is wrong.

Just because someone's prices are lower does not make them a lowballer. Just because someone's prices are significantly lower does not make them a lowballer.

So your assertion that "prices have dropped" and that someone charging far less than you is a lowballer are both inaccurate assumptions. You just happened to give a bid to a potential client that does not want to pay for that level of service.

Is McDonald's lowballing Ruth's Chris because their prices are so much lower?

I wouldn't have any work if I tried using your prices. But I'm in a market that gets at least 3x as much snow as you do.

Hopefully this helps you understand where most of us are coming from when we say you're crazy high on pricing.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

basher;1845785 said:


> That by April will be complaining about not getting paid.


I'm guessing he won't be around to complain about not getting paid by April. :laughing:


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## rscritch (Nov 15, 2011)

rscritch;1845409 said:


> I met with an apartment complex this afternoon. New to me. One of my guys use to plow it and knew them. they are 100,620 sq ft of parking lot. pretty straight forward places evenly spaced to stack snow ect. using my two calculators that I use with a 2" trigger I had a 2" to 4": snow plowing costing 726 or 776 plus salt and my salt bill at 871 or 915 depending on caculator. I've used my two calculators for 2 years now and had good luck fyi no side walks. I was told they have other bids down in the 400's on snow and half of my salt price has any one else noticed a down turn in snow pricing?


I have not mentioned low balling. There is room in our market for everyone. I asked has any one noticed a down turn in snow pricing. That was the original question I posted


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

rscritch;1845803 said:


> I have not mentioned low balling. There is room in our market for everyone. I asked has any one noticed a down turn in snow pricing. That was the original question I posted


To answer ? No I haven't noticed a downturn in pricing.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rscritch;1845803 said:


> I have not mentioned low balling. There is room in our market for everyone. I asked has any one noticed a down turn in snow pricing. That was the original question I posted


My apologies, you would be correct.

It was the next poster from central Illernoiz.

My point remains, you gave a Ruth's Chris price to someone who didn't want it. This does not mean there has been a downturn in pricing. It means you didn't know your target.

As for a down turn, this started to occur around 7-8 years ago. This year? not so much that I have noticed.


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## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

I personally think your pricing is very high.

In my opinion, when you get into an industry...in this case snow, just because you spent X amount does not mean you arbitrarily increase your bids by the amount "you" decided to spend. If I did that, heck..I could say I want to buy a new truck and charge my next customer out the arse by that logic.

IMO, when you decide to get into a line of work, you buy the equipment you require as an expense of doing business and you price the job you supply in accordance with industry "equality". Your profit depends on how efficient you are or can ultimately become. If you decide to buy a lot of equipment for your own use your net profit may go down, but it will offer you the ability to service more customers which in turn increases your end number of digits in your bank account.

In my opinion, what I describe above is the dog wagging the tail but the way you describe your operation is the tail wagging the dog and that's not going to work. You will keep a few customers for a little while but I'll expect you to begin to lose those customers when they ultimately realize how much others will supply the same service for. Regardless of location, that will happen and being up in IL I'd imagine it'll happen a lot sooner than later.


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

I agree. I think the prices went into the toilet about 5 or 6 years ago, at least around here (thanks to the nationals). Prices have made somewhat of a comeback the last couple years. You will do, what you will do, and you will learn your lessons like the rest of us have. Good luck to you.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

rscritch;1845676 said:


> I don't take advantage of any one I tell every person that I give a bid to to get other estimates, I know I would. 3 is what I recommend. I give each potential customer a list of references and explain what we do differently than every one else. I explain why I am worth what I charge. I try to educate my customers on the proper way to do things as an educated customer is the best kind. If the customer feels comfortable with using some one else that is fine and I dont mind a bit. There is plenty of work to go around. I dont buy my salt at Mclean county as I give my business else where. I support people who support me.


I agree with on service being important and doing a great job and being paid more for that.

The fact that your charging $1,200 dollars per ton to your clients, that is called gouging the client.

I don't care how you try to justify this.

Fact is, salting a property takes no talent at all, anyone can drive a truck around and salt.

Even using bagged salt top end $25 dollar a bag it's only around $500 for a ton and that's high because buying in bulk you can get that for around $15 a bag 20 bags is $300 a ton.

This is going to bite you in the ass one day when your clients find out your marking your price up by a little over 1,000 percent, roughly based on salt pricing of 110 per ton.

nough said


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

MSsnowplowing;1845903 said:


> I agree with on service being important and doing a great job and being paid more for that.
> 
> The fact that your charging $1,200 dollars per ton to your clients, that is called gouging the client.
> 
> ...


X2.

If someone from CT says you're too high, then you're WAY too high for most other markets.


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

That fact that he has 10 accounts that are paying those prices is pretty amazing. Must be one heck of a salesman.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

everyone knows what they're worth . some do it for peanuts and popcorn bc they're unemployed in the winter .that's fine and dandy too. some do it professionally to enhance winter work. 
but when you go out for 16 hours straight for 800. bucks you need to subtract a few items . fuel, your labor , meals , insurance & maintenance . 
i'm guessin 4-500. is a lot of money to some folks . that's business , know your competition and price accordingly . there are more plow jockeys out here now than ever before . 
when the biggy hits , that's where we as professionals who take this serious, separate the men from the boys and we pick up all the crumbs leftover from the jockeys. 
some boys got no means or resources to manage a 20'' storm , they've got no business being in this business . but the customer always pays in the end from poor or no service.
if I bid and IM not awarded , I didn't lose . I cant lose something that I'v never had . .........JMO


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## PPMan (Nov 29, 2005)

MSsnowplowing;1845903 said:


> I agree with on service being important and doing a great job and being paid more for that.
> 
> The fact that your charging $1,200 dollars per ton to your clients, that is called gouging the client.
> 
> ...


Check your math, at $25/bag it would be $1,000. How about the time to put it down?

No price gouging going on like said, customers know price in advance and agree to it and I'm sure can quit whenever they want, what's the problem?

Sounds like a lot of people here are priced waaayyy too low!


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

PPMan;1846015 said:


> Check your math, at $25/bag it would be $1,000. How about the time to put it down?
> 
> No price gouging going on like said, customers know price in advance and agree to it and I'm sure can quit whenever they want, what's the problem?
> 
> Sounds like a lot of people here are priced waaayyy too low!


So, what's the going rate in VA for a ton of salt applied?


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

PPMan;1846015 said:


> Check your math, at $25/bag it would be $1,000. How about the time to put it down?
> 
> No price gouging going on like said, customers know price in advance and agree to it and I'm sure can quit whenever they want, what's the problem?
> 
> Sounds like a lot of people here are priced waaayyy too low!


Your right, was half asleep  and the coffee was still brewing.

Still doesn't change the fact He's overpricing.

home depot $17.97 for a 50 pound bag, 40 bags -(1 ton) $718

Get it loose per salt is $110 per ton and magic salt $130 per ton.

And when I used bagged I was getting it for $15 for a 50 pound bag $600 by buying it in bulk, 100 bags a shot -(God bless those who use tailbed sanders, I came to hate mine, hated climbing in the back and dumping the bags in, then went to loose to lower the cost and had to shovel it in, still a pain at 2am in the morning with the temps close to zero and the wind blowing)

And with that amount I could use that on several properties, I wouldn't charge each client $600 dollars which is how he is implying in his post that's what he does.

Added: 
$75 to $150 per hour, extra on top of the price of product to spread it

So if it took 1 hour and 500 pounds, I would charge $300, it would depend on the size of the lot.


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## tbi (Sep 30, 2007)

Ferrandino must be smoking crack. $18,125 all inclusive for a 300,000 sf Lowes with a black parking lot policy in CNY. The salt bill would be almost double that if you kept it black.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

tbi;1846078 said:


> Ferrandino must be crazy. $18,125 all inclusive for a 300,000 sf Lowes with a black parking lot policy in CNY. The salt bill would be almost double that if you kept it black.


lets face, it Ferrandino aint smoking crack . he's smoking fine Cuban cigars in boca on plow jockey dimes .


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I made $400............once.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

tbi;1846078 said:


> Ferrandino must be smoking crack. $18,125 all inclusive for a 300,000 sf Lowes with a black parking lot policy in CNY. The salt bill would be almost double that if you kept it black.


What's your annual snowfall? Not saying that price is high or low, I'm just curious as to what our local will go for.


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## ryde307 (Dec 3, 2009)

Of your other 10 accounts are they similar in size to this one? 
I see alot of numbers on here I believe to be high, or would be high in our area. But when looking closer it's the guys doing smaller properties trying to bid larger sites with the same numbers that come up with what I see as high. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way but if your 10 other properties are smaller 10,000 sqft lots and your using the same pricing for multi-acre sites it is going to be hard to compete.
I see people post all the time I can make $200-250 an hour. Yes if you are plowing 5 houses on the same street you can. But when moving this model over to the commercial market it does not work.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

ryde307;1846210 said:


> Of your other 10 accounts are they similar in size to this one?
> I see alot of numbers on here I believe to be high, or would be high in our area. But when looking closer it's the guys doing smaller properties trying to bid larger sites with the same numbers that come up with what I see as high. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way but if your 10 other properties are smaller 10,000 sqft lots and your using the same pricing for multi-acre sites it is going to be hard to compete.
> I see people post all the time I can make $200-250 an hour. Yes if you are plowing 5 houses on the same street you can. But when moving this model over to the commercial market it does not work.


You hit the nail on the head. I wanted to post something similar but haven't had time.


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## PPMan (Nov 29, 2005)

Ne1;1846053 said:


> So, what's the going rate in VA for a ton of salt applied?


Hell if I know. I make my own prices, I don't bid a ton of properties. I have commercials and small HOA's and I know they're priced around. We're in a major metro area and the prices and methods are all over the board. So is our weather.

Heard a 1rst for me in this area recently, co. charges a retainer at beginning of season to stock product, have eqpt. ready etc. Not bad, are they gouging if it doesn't snow????


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## tbi (Sep 30, 2007)

John_DeereGreen;1846154 said:


> What's your annual snowfall? Not saying that price is high or low, I'm just curious as to what our local will go for.


It might be 60 or 120. And it's all over the board. You might get 2" every night/day for a week with the nuisance lake snows.


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## SnoDaddy (Dec 17, 2012)

derekslawncare;1845500 said:


> I just bought a new to me skid loader, a 20' shipping container and 25 tons of salt so I can handle my own salt supply this year, as apposed to purchasing from one of my larger competitors. Because of the increased expense, I included a notice with all my contracts this year explaining the equipment purchase and that I did it to avoid being cut off again like last winter which sent me scrambling every storm to find salt. I raised all pricing approx. 10% and thus far, have only lost one out of my 10 customers. It was a church who said they were going in house this year. All others have returned signed contracts except one, who stated by phone that they were staying with me, just hadn't gotten it approved and signed by corporate yet.


Have you filled it with salt yet? I was thinking of doing that


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;1846141 said:


> I made $400............once.


In my profession it's not uncommon to make that in an hour or so........:waving:


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Yep, just got it delivered a couple weeks ago. $80.00/ton delivered with a minimum of 25 ton order. All set to go, just let it snow.


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## SnoDaddy (Dec 17, 2012)

Care to post a pic of how you got her all set up now? I take it they dumped it ind front of the container and you moved it all in, did they supply ramps? Thx


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

I was wondering also


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

SnoDaddy;1846594 said:


> Care to post a pic of how you got her all set up now? I take it they dumped it ind front of the container and you moved it all in, did they supply ramps? Thx


Yeah, I plan to get photos at some point, but right now, I'm just trying to finish out the mowing season. I've been going 7 days a week trying to keep up with all the rain. I got a new to me skid steer (2012 Case SV 250) and a new HLA 3200-914 that I've been trying to get all ready. At some point I will get photos of all and post.


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## Scooby snacks (Oct 14, 2014)

Just wondering if all of you have snow plowing insurace, business ins, commercial truck ins, workers comp and a multi million dolllar umbrella policy and don't forget all off your insurace certificates for all of the sites you service. Cause just wondering how most of you charge so little to provide.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Scooby snacks;1846727 said:


> Just wondering if all of you have snow plowing insurace, business ins, commercial truck ins, workers comp and a multi million dolllar umbrella policy and don't forget all off your insurace certificates for all of the sites you service. Cause just wondering how most of you charge so little to provide.


Scooby,
I've got everything except the workers comp. I'm a one man operation, so I don't need it, but everything else, yes.
In today's "sue happy"society, operating without insurance is suicide. 
1. One Million umbrella. 
2. Two million commercial coverage. 3. Truck is in corporation's name. 
4. Incorporated.
5. All equipment insured.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jomama45;1846521 said:


> In my profession it's not uncommon to make that in an hour or so........:waving:


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Scooby snacks;1846727 said:


> Just wondering if all of you have snow plowing insurace, business ins, commercial truck ins, workers comp and a multi million dolllar umbrella policy and don't forget all off your insurace certificates for all of the sites you service. Cause just wondering how most of you charge so little to provide.


What is all this insurance stuff you speak of?

My great-grandfather started my business. My dad bought him out. I bought my dad out. Pretty sure the only way to stay in business for 82 years is to run it legitimately.

I know there's at least 2 others in this thread that run medium if not large companies. And they have both stated that the pricing is crazy.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

tbi;1846487 said:


> It might be 60 or 120. And it's all over the board. You might get 2" every night/day for a week with the nuisance lake snows.


Ouch. They'll find a sucker that'll do it, it'll look like **** and the sub will go under after a year too.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

you must qualified to receive a legit contract .Period. proof of ALL insurances before you use them bright red numbers . lol


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

A fair price is what the customer will pay for the service rendered to their satisfaction. So many factors to consider when stating his price is too high etc. We are in business to make money; kudos to the OP for doing just that.


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## Scooby snacks (Oct 14, 2014)

Well I know where I work is more expensive then most parts. But I still can't see someone charging so low I'm sorry. Besides everything you own you destroy doing snow plowing services so your maintenance alone doesn't justify the prices. I know what it cost me an hour to operate. Then when you have the chance to.make money with salt you don't. Plus your basically saying making 800 per yard of salt your ripping your customers off. Well if you properly educated your customers they would more then happily pay you than the lawyers.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Bossman 92;1845432 said:


> If I understand your numbers you are charging about $900 for about a ton of salt. If I turned in those numbers they would laugh at me too.


Yeah hows it going to cost you $900 to salt 100k sq ft parking lot no walks?

100k sq ft, we can bang out for $400 or less easy.


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## Scooby snacks (Oct 14, 2014)

No i don't make that on lots that size it be less. I'll send out a truck with a 1.5 yard sander and hit 4 buildings with that truck each location is between 300.00 and 350.00. But how I make money is pre salt salt then when your done plowing then in mourning again then at night. This will go every day and night usally for a week depending on the weather. My customers want zero ice and they are willing to pay whAt it takes. Guess that's why I used over 550 tons of salt last season.


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

Wow, I hope they paid you on time. That's a hell of a salt bill


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## Scooby snacks (Oct 14, 2014)

To everyone that reads what I posted. I didn't mean to put anyone down Ik all markets are diffent. But with snow the risks are so high I don't understand why people take such chances if your not gonna make as much as you can doing it. Ive been a guest on here for about 4 years and after seeing some post about prices this year I joined. Ik a lot of you are one man companies. So when I hear guys are only getting 50 bucks an hour it shocks me. Cause even in a new truck your using 4 to 5 gallons of fuel an hour. So at 4 bucks a gallon that's 20 bucks an hour for gas.plus insurance plus wear and tear how do u make any money.


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## tbi (Sep 30, 2007)

Scooby snacks;1847488 said:


> No i don't make that on lots that size it be less. I'll send out a truck with a 1.5 yard sander and hit 4 buildings with that truck each location is between 300.00 and 350.00. But how I make money is pre salt salt then when your done plowing then in mourning again then at night. This will go every day and night usally for a week depending on the weather. My customers want zero ice and they are willing to pay whAt it takes. Guess that's why I used over 550 tons of salt last season.


Did your suppliers cut you off at any point last year or raise prices?


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## procuts0103 (Oct 2, 2012)

derekslawncare;1846588 said:


> Yep, just got it delivered a couple weeks ago. $80.00/ton delivered with a minimum of 25 ton order. All set to go, just let it snow.


Where in the hell are you getting salt for 80 a ton? ?? Morton finally sent me my price quote it was 133 a ton. What a joke


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

procuts0103;1847561 said:


> Where in the hell are you getting salt for 80 a ton? ?? Morton finally sent me my price quote it was 133 a ton. What a joke


I bought through Holiday Sand - Bonner Springs, KS 913-208-7722, ask for Justin Sanders. However, when the truck arrived, the driver have me a bill of Lading from Central Salt - Elgin Illinois, 888-499-7258, so you might be able to call them direct and do even better. Good luck.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Scooby snacks;1847488 said:


> No i don't make that on lots that size it be less. I'll send out a truck with a 1.5 yard sander and hit 4 buildings with that truck each location is between 300.00 and 350.00. But how I make money is pre salt salt then when your done plowing then in mourning again then at night. This will go every day and night usally for a week depending on the weather. My customers want zero ice and they are willing to pay whAt it takes. Guess that's why I used over 550 tons of salt last season.


I'm not knocking you, but there are members here who use that much salt in a couple nights. Maybe less.

I used way more than that, and I am small taters.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Scooby snacks;1847488 said:


> Guess that's why I used over 550 tons of salt last season.


Heads up, That's not a lot of salt to a lot of people. Including some of the people you're talking to.



Mark Oomkes;1847623 said:


> I used way more than that, and I am small taters.


Your trucks run what, 50 ton per truck per storm?


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## 98Chevy2500 (Nov 27, 2005)

basher;1847722 said:


> Heads up, That's not a lot of salt to a lot of people. Including some of the people you're talking to.
> 
> Your trucks run what, 50 ton per truck per storm?


Depends on whether his electric spreaders are functioning


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

I have this truck ,it can hold over 1000 tons of salt.it takes 3 days to unload :laughing:


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I read everything now on PS, now we jumping on HIGHballers now.....

While I agree with most here, IF he can get it, so be it. I believe in paying it forward.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

1olddogtwo;1848087 said:


> I read everything now on PS, now we jumping on HIGHballers now.....
> 
> While I agree with most here, IF he can get it, so be it. I believe in paying it forward.


one thing about liberals , capitalism is a bad thing .


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## Blizzard1980 (Dec 27, 2012)

Citytow;1848104 said:


> one thing about liberals , capitalism is a bad thing .


BTW, have you met Bird yet?


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

they believe their govn.mnt. is supposed to provide for them . hehe. give the country away . com


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

MSsnowplowing;1846065 said:


> Your right, was half asleep  and the coffee was still brewing.
> 
> Still doesn't change the fact He's overpricing.
> 
> ...


$17.97 for salt for a bag dang Sound like HD is overpricing salt 
Here its $4.78 per bag


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

Antlerart06;1848155 said:


> $17.97 for salt for a bag dang Sound like HD is overpricing salt
> Here its $4.78 per bag


hes talking 80 pounders dude. go bulk , its 400% profit more in ur pocket !


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Citytow;1848161 said:


> hes talking 80 pounders dude. go bulk , its 400% profit more in ur pocket !


He still paying to much for 80lbs bags 
80lb here 7.85 per bag


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Antlerart06;1848155 said:


> $17.97 for salt for a bag dang Sound like HD is overpricing salt
> Here its $4.78 per bag


not salt but calcium chloride


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

MSsnowplowing;1848309 said:


> not salt but calcium chloride


You can use a lot less to do the same job


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

basher;1848320 said:


> You can use a lot less to do the same job


That was my first year in business. 
Switched the next year to a sand/salt mixture and 2 years ago switched to Magic Salt.
Now I'm looking at liquid spraying.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

liquid spraying is just plain over rated . it helps , but it aint that end all be all . im still waiting for the ultimate btu undercarriage flamethrower


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

MSsnowplowing;1848309 said:


> not salt but calcium chloride


I wonder if that is what you was talking about 
I run that at times I'll blend it with salt


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Antlerart06;1848574 said:


> I wonder if that is what you was talking about
> I run that at times I'll blend it with salt


I mixed mine with sand, and once I started buying in bulk I got that price down to 15 a bag. 
But looking back I think that was a typo on my part I was referring to home depot and their 50 pound bags are around $7.97 
Been fighting a cold the last 3 days, Nyquil is great stuff but makes you loopy


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

There is no sense in taking on a new account just for the sake of gaining a customer. As long as the customer knows exactly what is included in your price then I would walk away. Why plow if it's not profitable for you. Some people will tell you your prices are way out of line just to see if you will give them a better deal.


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## scottydosnntkno (Jan 4, 2010)

Scooby snacks;1847500 said:


> To everyone that reads what I posted. I didn't mean to put anyone down Ik all markets are diffent. But with snow the risks are so high I don't understand why people take such chances if your not gonna make as much as you can doing it. Ive been a guest on here for about 4 years and after seeing some post about prices this year I joined. Ik a lot of you are one man companies. So when I hear guys are only getting 50 bucks an hour it shocks me. Cause even in a new truck your using 4 to 5 gallons of fuel an hour. So at 4 bucks a gallon that's 20 bucks an hour for gas.plus insurance plus wear and tear how do u make any money.


What the hell kind of truck uses 5 gallons an hour? I have a f250 diesel and plow for a large regional airport and go trough less than a tank of fuel in 24 hrs, or slightly over one gallon an hour


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

Blizzard1980;1848149 said:


> BTW, have you met Bird yet?


Laugh My Ass Off !!!!
I almost fell out off my chair with the computer hitting the floor:laughing:


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## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

rscritch;1845413 said:


> I wasn't sure if it was bs or there really are people out there doing it that cheap or if I screwed it up. we usually only do parking lots and driveways. Not a lot of apartments so who knows.


Oh no...there are people out there doing it that cheap...and even cheaper.

We had a storm here years ago and I headed West of Raleigh about 2 hours drive to see what I could drum up. Got to where the snow really was and it was too deep to even try to touch. Had to be three feet in one hotel parking lot filled with cars...no thanks...so I came back a little and found a decent commercial area and went to have a look. Every damned hillbilly with a tractor and a blade was out there pushing snow around....not very efficiently either. Started talking with a few that were taking a break and they asked if I wanted to join in. I asked them what sort of dollar/hr and they said $25.00. I laughed and told them they were crazy and I'd only drop my plow on the ground to go inside to grab a bite to eat. They were in awe when I told them what they could actually be charging.

Bottom line is when you get new people into an industry, they base what they charge off of what they have been paid up to that point but add on a little more and think they're kicking butt. The ones that have been in the industry long enough charge more for a reason, we know what it takes.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

yep , they do things for a fraction of what us yankees charge . you did the right thing . drop the blade in front of them and grab some chitlins. 

im all in for doing charity but for the less fortunate who cannot afford it . like a veteran or a senior citizen .not an ungrateful corporate sleezeball who cant get off his wallet.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

1olddogtwo;1848087 said:


> I read everything now on PS, now we jumping on HIGHballers now.....
> 
> While I agree with most here, IF he can get it, so be it. I believe in paying it forward.


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## JFon101231 (Dec 5, 2008)

John_DeereGreen;1845909 said:


> If someone from CT says you're too high, then you're WAY too high for most other markets.


^^^ best quote ever


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## AccuCon (Jan 31, 2013)

John_DeereGreen said:


> If someone from CT says you're too high, then you're WAY too high for most other markets.





JFon101231;1850238 said:


> ^^^ best quote ever


There is some truth to this....And the OP is from Eastern CT none the less

I need to start charging more


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## JFon101231 (Dec 5, 2008)

Nah, the person who started the thread is from IL.


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## AccuCon (Jan 31, 2013)

JFon101231;1850238 said:


> ^^^ best quote ever





JFon101231;1850253 said:


> Nah, the person who started the thread is from IL.


I know....

But Ive been told I'm a little low and I'm from CT Thumbs Up

Plus I look at as if my customers keep saying how excellent my service is, means I'm clearly not charging enough...ha


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

property owners think like this . the economy is in the toilet . so they figure the price of actually DOING business or providing a service has lowered . in fact , its the opposite .

there is no doubt in my mind they are entitled to "shop" around . and there will be the guy who needs his notes paid on equipment and he's behind on the mortgage and the kids got to eat . 

so , instead of a healthy blow , selling out of a field he financially CANNOT compete in any longer , he stoops down to the mold and slime like the north side of a tree in the forest , and breaks . 

Therefore , he has now become ENSLAVED to the wealthy man , with no profit margin . and he is also entitled to do so . welcome to america !


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