# Getting Paid ?



## 160SR (Oct 1, 2014)

In my area I see the same reputable snow removal contractor doing the same lot year after year. ( 10+ years ) I know the lot is managed by one of the pm companies usually advised to stay away from on Plowsite. I am guessing he is either getting paid or hoping that this will be the year he gets paid, or he needs a 100K loss on his taxes.
I would like to hear from anybody who has actually gotten paid by a pm company. I don't think pm companies have an exclusive on screwing people. I have accounts receivables from friends, neighbors, people I subbed out to, etc. None of them I have any hope of collecting from. Driveways around here are done by guys with no ins. and don't pay taxes.
So I can't compete without losing my ass so whats the difference. These guys do not have the manpower or equipment to do commercial. I do. Yes I have the ins. I can lay-off 3 guys with families for the winter also. I have the means to suffer a slow payer as long as I get paid at some point. Yeah I'll ***** about it, but it will be just one more thing. Is there anybody on this forum who has actually been paid by a pm company?


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## Dirtslinger35 (Sep 10, 2016)

I was just getting on to post about the same thing basically. I just got an rfp from rsm maintenance out of nj for a 400000 sq lot and im wondering if its even worth it .


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

It's really not a issue of being able survive while waiting 120 + plus days for payment. This is bad biz behavior and should not be tolerated. I don't like financing anybody's jobs while they collect interest on the moneys.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I worked for 2, one for 1 year and another for 2 or 3 years. The same property, which I've been doing since '97. The only reason I bothered is because the property manager from the company that owns it is great to deal with and I know they paid the NSP on time. And for the most part, I was always paid on time.....30 days. The only part I didn't like with the first NSP was they paid at the end of the month instead of the beginning, which was BS, because I know the property owner was billed at the beginning and paid net 30. So they were sitting on MY money for a good 30 days. 

The property owner has fired the NSP this year. The property manager hated them, and I'm guessing many others did. All he wanted to do was make a phone call to me and solve the problem, which are very, very few.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

FredG said:


> It's really not a issue of being able survive while waiting 120 + plus days for payment. This is bad biz behavior and should not be tolerated. I don't like financing anybody's jobs while they collect interest on the moneys.


It's udder BS. Nobody pays employees every 120 days. Or 90. Or 60. Why should a contractor? I have one customer that has a 45 day pay policy, I don't like it, but they are a good customer, so I live with it. Everyone else is 30 or less. And contracted work is invoiced on the first of the month, extra work is either invoiced upon completion, end of month or at times during the winter we do a mid-month billing for cash flow.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I worked for 2, one for 1 year and another for 2 or 3 years. The same property, which I've been doing since '97. The only reason I bothered is because the property manager from the company that owns it is great to deal with and I know they paid the NSP on time. And for the most part, I was always paid on time.....30 days. The only part I didn't like with the first NSP was they paid at the end of the month instead of the beginning, which was BS, because I know the property owner was billed at the beginning and paid net 30. So they were sitting on MY money for a good 30 days.
> 
> The property owner has fired the NSP this year. The property manager hated them, and I'm guessing many others did. All he wanted to do was make a phone call to me and solve the problem, which are very, very few.


Good deal, No NSP :terribletowel: and invoices on time. Thumbs Up


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Here is something else to add. You have to charge more when working for a NSP (not because you want to stick it to them) and here is why. You may (probably will) have to wait longer for your money, they require more office paper work, they may require pics of work completed, you may have to go back to get papers signed from the manager after the property opens. They are just all round higher maintenance. You have to do the paper work correctly and not just correct in your eyes but correct as to the way they want it done or your not getting paid.


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## Dirtslinger35 (Sep 10, 2016)

How can they make you wait for your money if their terms are net 45. This crap irritates me. Has anyone ever been completely screwed and not paid at all by them. Hell i got paid by fema and vadot qucker last winter.


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## 160SR (Oct 1, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Here is something else to add. You have to charge more when working for a NSP (not because you want to stick it to them) and here is why. You may (probably will) have to wait longer for your money, they require more office paper work, they may require pics of work completed, you may have to go back to get papers signed from the manager after the property opens. They are just all round higher maintenance. You have to do the paper work correctly and not just correct in your eyes but correct as to the way they want it done or your not getting paid.


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## 160SR (Oct 1, 2014)

Excellent points. I am looking at one now that says they pay in 45 days _after_ their client pays them. Each NSP has their own system. I've never done plowing for an NSP but every lot around here is controlled by one.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

If you decide to go with a NSP, can you survive the 60 or 90 day, or more wait to get paid. Its not like working for a local guy, you can't just go bang on his door.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

One of my customers I've had for aboot 8yrs for snow and grounds maintenance has a net 45 cycle which would be ok if they actually paid at 45d. On the 48th day I'm resending the invoice asking when payment will be made, sometimes the check shows up on the 50th or up to 58days. Invoices are paid by their corporate office which is back east and I'm convinced they do it just to #uc& with me.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Unfortunatly in the truck repair buis, 60 days seems almost normal. Just cut off a nationwide moving company, owe me about 5000.00. Can not even get a response out of them. Im a one man shop, average about 25000.00 out. Replaced an injector today in an ISM Cummins. Bill will be 1000.00 Will not see that for 3 months. I'm still owed money for last years plowing, and plow repairs.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Randall Ave said:


> Unfortunatly in the truck repair buis, 60 days seems almost normal. Just cut off a nationwide moving company, owe me about 5000.00. Can not even get a response out of them. Im a one man shop, average about 25000.00 out. Replaced an injector today in an ISM Cummins. Bill will be 1000.00 Will not see that for 3 months. I'm still owed money for last years plowing, and plow repairs.


They will pay now after cutting them off, If nothing else maybe out of embarrassment. How many other guys will extend them credit? Around here you need to have funds for repairs when picking the truck up. I don't care how good your credit looks. Can't even charge fuel anymore. The only place I have a account is at the gravel pit, Not sure how long this will last. Some guys ruin it for everybody. Hurts my feelings when I owe somebody money.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

The problem seems to that someone will work for the NSP and deal with the slow pay. So it comes down to if you are willing to play their game. I Will not. I expect to get paid as soon as the Invoice is received. If not I will call ask for payment, if I do not get paid - I will stop service.


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## Dirtslinger35 (Sep 10, 2016)

Has anyone stopped service because of late payment with a nsp ??


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

I did once, Started up my equipment and sat right there in case some fool tried to come in there and plow, The Manager of the property paid me to date and been plowing since and paid by the owner.


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## Dirtslinger35 (Sep 10, 2016)

Nice Fred well that gives me hope if i get this account.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Dirtslinger35 said:


> Nice Fred well that gives me hope if i get this account.


24 hour truck stop motel combo. I am not saying this will work for you without following through with it. I mean its not that hard to run off whoever comes in to help them out. I don't think I want to approach a angry contractor that has not been payed. Those Nsp's have fools in line. Once they know your not plowing and waiting for payment they run off anyways. Who wants to dedicate equipment for non payers. Fools of all fools usually will walk away. Believe it or not even if the cops come they will be on your side if he's decent. Non payment is not cool to law enforcement or a court of law. Would you feel safe with your equipment pulling something like that. I wouldn't you may not have any equipment to use around here. I don't want no damage or vandalism over that, Or anybody sniffing around my accounts to get even.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Specially with them Italians around here. Those boys can hold a grudge.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

160SR said:


> I am looking at one now that says they pay in 45 days _after_ their client pays them.


Why are you looking at it?

I'd laugh and then pitch\delete\burn it.

How are you to know if the customer pays them? They can lie all day long.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Dirtslinger35 said:


> How can they make you wait for your money if their terms are net 45. This crap irritates me. Has anyone ever been completely screwed and not paid at all by them. Hell i got paid by fema and vadot qucker last winter.


Yes plenty of guys never been paid. The NSP is out of state in most cases. The Contractor deplete there capitol and possibly line of credit financing there jobs. Most don't have the litigation fee's to go after them or just swallow a big load. These people are vendors, They got every excuse down pat not to pay. This is not a clean way to do biz.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Bottom line, These NSP's need to have the capitol to pay there contractors every 30 days. They perform no work, have nothing invested in material, labor fuel etc. Why any corporate office would go for this sham is beyond me. Not just as a contractor would I want to be able to face somebody local for issues, As a client I would feel the same way.   :hammerhead: :hammerhead:


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> It's udder BS. Nobody pays employees every 120 days. Or 90. Or 60. Why should a contractor? I have one customer that has a 45 day pay policy, I don't like it, but they are a good customer, so I live with it. Everyone else is 30 or less. And contracted work is invoiced on the first of the month, extra work is either invoiced upon completion, end of month or at times during the winter we do a mid-month billing for cash flow.


Although it is BS and I agree...

BUT, that is also the reason that your employees make a lower hourly rate and your corp should be charging (hopefully) you are making money on every hour that they are employed by you. That is why your are in business... right?

I can say that in the industrial and commercial construction industry, we typically see 60 to 90 days from the invoicing months input for draw.

So say if you finish your portion work on say the 8th on August, invoice on the 9th, the draw is submitted on the 31st of August. Then you wait your 60 days, So you are at Oct 31st or Nov 1st if you have the true 60 days. Now at that point, you have to produce supplier waivers, sub contractor waivers, and certified payroll documents proving that YOU have already paid everyone almost 3 months ago before you will get YOUR money that your earned on the 8th of August. Not to mention, in our case, we have also had almost (2) full months of union benefits, work comp, GL ins, office labor, overhead, gas, etc... on those hours that have already been shelled out also...

Sorry, but that is the harsh facts of real business.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Although it is BS and I agree...
> 
> BUT, that is also the reason that your employees make a lower hourly rate and your corp should be charging (hopefully) you are making money on every hour that they are employed by you. That is why your are in business... right?
> 
> ...


Its hard to believe (but true) that in some cases the paper work would take longer to get through then the actual job took.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

160SR said:


> Excellent points. I am looking at one now that says they pay in 45 days _after_ their client pays them. Each NSP has their own system. I've never done plowing for an NSP but every lot around here is controlled by one.





Philbilly2 said:


> Although it is BS and I agree...
> 
> BUT, that is also the reason that your employees make a lower hourly rate and your corp should be charging (hopefully) you are making money on every hour that they are employed by you. That is why your are in business... right?
> 
> ...


Not private, Yes where there's federal, state, county, etc. Funding, Prevailing wage, union wages, Certified payroll. Sub contractors, Material suppliers for sure. Lots more paper to shuffle on all ends.


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