# critique my pricing



## nediesel

First year plowing for myself have all kinds of experience including, 18 wheeler work, heavy equipment operation, plowing for the town, plowing driveways. Just got my own truck (2007 ram 2500 cummins plow prep pkg, 7'6" Fisher straight edge plow) and intend on doing residential driveways to get my feet wet.

My initial thought is to make up some flyers and spread them to my immediate area. 

Pricing as such, $10 per parking space (eye balled) 

+40% after 6 inches
Double price after 12 inches
Shoveling $1 per foot
Salt I'm still unsure about I plan to spread by shovel and really don't know the cost of salt yet.
I plan to head out after 2inches has fallen. With my flyers I was going to hand write in my price for the driveways so the customer knows ahead of time before they even call for my services what they can expect to pay what do you guys think of this idea? That's all I got for know let me know what you think.


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## dieselss

nediesel said:


> $10 per parking space (eye balled)


.....race to to the bottom right here


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## nediesel

dieselss said:


> .....race to to the bottom right here


You saying this is to cheap?


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## BossPlow2010

nediesel said:


> You saying this is to cheap?


Do you make money at_ that rate? 
I used to bid with the scientific wild ass guess, lost money. Now I measure.

Head out when you have 1/2" by the time you get to your first lot, you'll have an inch. (My commercial properties are at 1" or my discretion)
You'll use a lot of material trying to melt 2" of snow._


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## Mr.Markus

Per visit,season,

180sq feet per parking space is 242 spaces per acre. Allow for lanes, dividers, walksyou'll probably be closer to 100.. 
Per time $1000 an acre won't win you any bids here.
Per season you will get them all...


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## leolkfrm

should be a 8 ft blade, too narrow for the truck

shovel spread takes too much time and not even


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## nediesel

First of thank you guys for the response! I will be doing residential the per parking spot wasn't for parking lots. What do you men think of the structuring of my pricing strategy? You obviously think it's low!


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## JMHConstruction

You need to find out your operating costs. You can't just throw out a number without knowing what YOU need to make to show a profit.

Wings could add some width to the plow also


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## nediesel

I'll start looking into wings! Operating cost are fuel insurance and maintenance. I will be solo I'm not a landscape company or anything just starting out.


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## JMHConstruction

There's more

I'm on the job site today, but when I get back in my office I'll get more detailed


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## dieselss

nediesel said:


> You saying this is to cheap?


Yes I am. WAY CHEAP


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## JMHConstruction

JMHConstruction said:


> There's more
> 
> I'm on the job site today, but when I get back in my office I'll get more detailed


Back in my office didn't realize how that came across until I re-read that....I work out of my home...

Anyway....

You will have other things to cover in your operating costs. I'm looking for my "markup and profits" books. I think that was the one that had a pretty good example of overhead costs. The book is more focused on building contractors (or that's at least how I took it, maybe because that's what I was reading it for), but it would be a good read for you. If I can find what box it's in I'll post a picture.


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## nediesel

It didn't come across bad! 

Thanks I appreciate it and look forward to reading it!


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## nediesel

I'm really looking forward to learning as much as possible before the first snowflake falls! I want to be as profitable as possible and provide a quality service to my customers if there is anything you guys think I should read/watch I'd love the direction!


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## JMHConstruction

First, find your costs to run your business. It could be $200 (it wont) or it could be $200,000. We can't help too much here. I'll help where I can, but only you will know these numbers.

Second, do some research on your market. Don't base your prices off this unless it's higher than what YOUR numbers allow you to charge. If you need to make $100 per driveway, and your market only allows $50, you're already in the hole and will need to figure out how to become more efficient. Efficiency and quantity (without loosing quality) is key if your costs are higher than your market.


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## nediesel

dieselss said:


> Yes I am. WAY CHEAP


How do you figure out a price for a residential driveway? The area I live in Massachusetts is densly populated with 2-5 space driveways. Suburban area and my town abuts a city so I have a wide range of opportunity for snow plowing.


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## JMHConstruction

The pictures came out a bit dark. This will get you started but is very basic.

Remember, you only have "X" number of storms to make all winter overhead. Just to keep things simple, I'll use easy numbers. If your overhead for the winter is $10,000 and your job costs (fuel, salt, etc.) are $500 per storm, and you average 10 storms a winter, you need to make $1,500 per storm just to break even.

Using that same number from my example, if you charge $40 (for a 4 car driveway, using your $10 per space figure) you need to clear 37.5 drives just to break even. Now depending on your market, $40 for a driveway could be too high or too low. You'll have to figure that out.

I'm no expert here, and pretty much every regular on this site has a much larger outfit than I do. They may have better ways of doing things. This is just a simplified down version of how I figure my costs.


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## Unraveller

JMHConstruction said:


> The pictures came out a bit dark. This will get you started but is very basic.


Which book?


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## Randall Ave

First you need a minimum price, say $40.00. go up from there. But I do not know what the average minimum is in your area. If there's 50 Snow plow jockies in your area doing drives for 20 bucks. You could have a problem.


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## nediesel

Randall Ave said:


> First you need a minimum price, say $40.00. go up from there. But I do not know what the average minimum is in your area. If there's 50 Snow plow jockies in your area doing drives for 20 bucks. You could have a problem.


Thank you for the input... I asked my neighbor today what he pays, it's his uncle who does it, he told me he pays $25 it's 2 cars wide by 6 cars long all the snow gets pushed to the end of the driveway. I said kind of sarcastically oh your getting the family discount and he seemed to not think that was the case! Kind of threw me off.. I'm starting to feel like it's just a case by case basis I appreciate you guys helping us noobs out!


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## agurdo17

4 car in my area, 20 to 25 bucks...... if you dont have volume here then you dont make any money. Guys are plowing for 10 to 15. But they go broke after a year. We also plow 30 ish times a year.....


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## BlueGuy

I’m kinda late, but...

I charge $40 minimum, I won’t leave the house for less. It’s not just about plowing time, it’s commute too. I only shovel city walks and ONE walk to ONE door. If no city walks, just the one walk. Salt is extra. I do about 30 pushes per event, and I charge in brackets:

1”-4” (Base price)
4.1”-8” (1.5x base price)
8.1”+ (1.5x base price + $10 per inch for all amounts over 8”)

So, a minimum job looks like this:

1”-4” ($40)
4.1”-8” ($60)
8.1”-9” ($70)
9.1”-10” ($80)
Etc.

We get about 20 events per season, probably 1” 10 times, 3” 4 times, 5” 4 times, 7”+ 2 times. That’s about an average year of course.

Minimum driveways are anything from 1 car to 80’ pull throughs with plenty of room for snow. Use a stopwatch, time your jobs, Have a target per minute in mind, that includes commute. Keep in mind your overhead should include the time you spend on office work, the time you spend fixing stuff, all your non-billable hours.

Keep accurate records of everything and if you aren’t making enough either make your operation more efficient, raise prices or both. Don’t be afraid to drop unprofitable customers. Each customer should be independently profitable. G’luck.


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## cjames808

You’ll want to do about 2-3 per hour for 4-6 hours close to each other. Don’t go driving all around on the freeways. 

Have a minimum and stick to it


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## TNOKC

Find a larger contractor get paid 85 and hour.... no billing, no old customers, Moore money less work. Set up a. Property he has a seasonal on say you will do it for 60% of his asking price/time it takes. You will be money ahead be paid and not have to worry about breakdowns or lil mrs smiths tulips.


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## JMHConstruction

TNOKC said:


> Find a larger contractor get paid 85 and hour.... no billing, no old customers, Moore money less work. Set up a. Property he has a seasonal on say you will do it for 60% of his asking price/time it takes. You will be money ahead be paid and not have to worry about breakdowns or lil mrs smiths tulips.


Kind of bias to hiring subs though, aren't you??:laugh:
Kidding! I've actually been meaning to call you, Mark. I'm always interested to see what's being offered.

He does bring up a good point about subcontractors. If you find a large company that is know for paying their subs on time, you may be better off. Especially in the beginning, if you can make money and they keep you busy, it's a good way to learn production times. Plus you aren't chasing work.


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## acampbell

nediesel said:


> First year plowing for myself have all kinds of experience including, 18 wheeler work, heavy equipment operation, plowing for the town, plowing driveways. Just got my own truck (2007 ram 2500 cummins plow prep pkg, 7'6" Fisher straight edge plow) and intend on doing residential driveways to get my feet wet.
> 
> My initial thought is to make up some flyers and spread them to my immediate area.
> 
> Pricing as such, $10 per parking space (eye balled)
> 
> +40% after 6 inches
> Double price after 12 inches
> Shoveling $1 per foot
> Salt I'm still unsure about I plan to spread by shovel and really don't know the cost of salt yet.
> I plan to head out after 2inches has fallen. With my flyers I was going to hand write in my price for the driveways so the customer knows ahead of time before they even call for my services what they can expect to pay what do you guys think of this idea? That's all I got for know let me know what you think.


I know this an old thread, but how did you make out your first year?


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## nediesel

acampbell said:


> I know this an old thread, but how did you make out your first year?


First year was ok, the tiered pricing wasn't such a great idea I switched to per push this year just makes things easier. Regardless my first year I made pretty good money this year I'm not track to do much better!


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## NBRam1500

Do most of you guys charge per push/per storm or Seasonal Rates?

Most people here want a seasonal rate

We get on average 18-20 events a year
5 cm trigger

Average driveway here run 400-500

That's two cars wide
3 cars long


We service 25 small residential driveways 
5 commercial lots 
75 residential driveways with tractor / blower x2
35 walkways (seniors )


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## acampbell

nediesel said:


> First year was ok, the tiered pricing wasn't such a great idea I switched to per push this year just makes things easier. Regardless my first year I made pretty good money this year I'm not track to do much better!


Keep it simple for residential. For me, a "typical" 4 car driveway gets a $25 charge for every 2 to 4 inches. My customers know, ahead of any storm, what the bill will be approximately. And, I plow on that basis. I never agree to "end of storm" pricing terms. Saves my truck from taking a beating. I will bill higher for special circumstances (eg. I have one customer that wants all the snow pushed to a particular area in his yard. It requires a lot of unnecessary backdragging on my part. He gets dinged for it.).


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## Kvston

nediesel said:


> First year plowing for myself have all kinds of experience including, 18 wheeler work, heavy equipment operation, plowing for the town, plowing driveways. Just got my own truck (2007 ram 2500 cummins plow prep pkg, 7'6" Fisher straight edge plow) and intend on doing residential driveways to get my feet wet.
> 
> Prices start at $40/driveway, 3" trigger and double the price to sand/salt. Don't eyeball until you get some years on you. Corners, backdrag, vehicles in the way, no place to put snow, etc all add to the price. 12'x40' if $40. Add $10 for every 50' after that. Add for mailbox clearing, obstacles, sidewalks. Don't skimp or you cost yourself your business. Add for potential unruly clients as well. Get paid within 10 days of invoicing at the end of each month.


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