# Chevy Reman Engine Question...



## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

Hey guys, long story short at 94,000 miles I blew my engine in my 2002 2500hd a month ago. Nobody to blame but me, but to this day I'm still sick to my stomach of the repair bill. Dropped a reman Chevy 6.0l Vortec gasser in it, and it was one pretty penny to pay the dealer 

Water pump, coolant, oil/filter, serpentine belt, engine mounts, oil pressure sensor & sending unit, spark plugs & wires, cooler lines, and manifolds were all installed brand new during the installation process. Since labor was not going to be extra, I figured at almost 100k miles; I might as well spend the extra now in parts than an additional parts & labor down the road. Well here's my problem...at warm idle the truck shakes pretty bad. IT DID NOT DO THIS WITH MY ORIGINAL STOCK ENGINE. Why now? My first visit back to the dealer, the service manager claimed my injectors are clogged. I told him thats impossible, cause I'm pretty good about running injector cleaner/water remover/octane booster once a month. He then claimed I ruined the injector seals because of running those additives. He recommended me running a full tank of high octane and then call him back to discuss the status. Well, Cleveland just had a good foot of snow a day ago, and I went through a whole tank of 92 octane and the truck seems like it shakes even worse now. Almost to the point of it wanting to stall. The idle stays constant at all times, just shakes really bad (rough idle).

The reman has a 100k miles warranty but only good at the Chevy dealer of install. I left 3 messages for the service manager to call me back and he has yet responded. Any ideas of why the truck might be idling rough? Thanks for reading and your responses!


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

A month prior to the install, a new oem fuel filter was installed...


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

Was it a gm crate motor(goodwrench)? if so they are waranteed at any gm dealer(don't let this cat BS you. If they piss you off, start calling gm's customer service...make them tired of hearing from you. trust me, when regional gm reps start calling the owner of the dealership as they say sh** rolls down hill. Good luck!!!


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

The service manager is obviously an idiot. I would ask another dealer to look at it.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

Sounds like a vacuum leak. Grab a can of carb clean and spray around the intake with it running and see if the idle goes up. No check engine light? If it was spark or fuel related you would probably get a light


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## South Seneca (Oct 22, 2010)

Pop the hood at night where is nice and dark, and see if you see any spark leaking from the ignition system. Spark plug wires etc. It's not hard to damage those parts in an engine swap.


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

+1 on the vacuum leak...maybe a tight valve. does the idle speed fluctuate w/ warm or steady? Remember the squeakiest wheel gets the most grease!!!


just re-read your post earlier..,.def. sounds like a vac. leak..no codes..if spark/fuel you would get a S.E.S. light


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

nepagearjammer;1265839 said:


> Was it a gm crate motor(goodwrench)? if so they are waranteed at any gm dealer(don't let this cat BS you. If they piss you off, start calling gm's customer service...make them tired of hearing from you. trust me, when regional gm reps start calling the owner of the dealership as they say sh** rolls down hill. Good luck!!!


I called another dealer locally to pick his brain about my issue. He wants $95 to diagnose the problem and will not honor any parts/labor if its engine or installation problem related. He recommends me going to back to dealer of purchase and b!tch.

I asked the service manager prior to agreeing on the work, and he callled this engine a long block rebuilt. Not a crate engine. It is a OEM GM rebuilt. Everything is brand new except the engine block.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1265847 said:


> Sounds like a vacuum leak. Grab a can of carb clean and spray around the intake with it running and see if the idle goes up. No check engine light? If it was spark or fuel related you would probably get a light


Throttle body and MAF is spotless. No engine light.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

neols;1265872 said:


> Throttle body and MAF is spotless. No engine light.


NO spray the carb clean around the OUTSIDE of the intake manifold (on the TOP of the motor under the Vortec plastic cover) to check for a leak. If there is a leak the carb clean will get SUCKED into the motor and cause the idle to increase


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

nepagearjammer;1265867 said:


> +1 on the vacuum leak...maybe a tight valve. does the idle speed fluctuate w/ warm or steady? Remember the squeakiest wheel gets the most grease!!!
> 
> just re-read your post earlier..,.def. sounds like a vac. leak..no codes..if spark/fuel you would get a S.E.S. light


It does idle a few RPM's higher when cold, but eventually settles at 500-600 RPM's when normal operating temps have been reached. No erratic idle when running temps have been reached also. But when I look over at the passenger seat, its shaking so bad it could mix a gallon of paint. I can even feel the vibration under the floor board when sitting at a red light, and see the hood/doors shake real bad when I open them.

I did notice another thing different about the reman and the original. My original engines oil pressure never dropped below 40# and over 60#'s. The reman drops to 32# and never goes over 42#'s. Dealer claims reman oil pressure is normal?


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

long block= re-manned block rotating assembly, remanned heads...reusing your oil pan , valve covers, intake manifold ect. if a gm part they must cover it..but I can tell you he's going to say it's anything other than the stuff he did. Don't back off one bit!!!!


oil psi sounds low for a new engine... should push at least 50 psi w/ cold.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1265873 said:


> NO spray the carb clean around the OUTSIDE of the intake manifold (on the TOP of the motor under the Vortec plastic cover) to check for a leak. If there is a leak the carb clean will get SUCKED into the motor and cause the idle to increase


Ok. Going out to the garage here shortly to check for ignition spark and intake leak. But remember, I DID NOT HAVE THIS ROUGH IDLE WITH MY OEM ENGINE. This all began the day I picked it up. I asked the mechanic about the shaking and he told me to quit being paranoid and drive it hard. An ignition issue I understand can go wrong during removing off old and installing on new. But what could have gone wrong during the swap process to give me an intake leak?


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

nepagearjammer;1265876 said:


> long block= re-manned block rotating assembly, remanned heads...reusing your oil pan , valve covers, intake manifold ect. if a gm part they must cover it..but I can tell you he's going to say it's anything other than the stuff he did. Don't back off one bit!!!!
> 
> oil psi sounds low for a new engine... should push at least 50 psi w/ cold.


Oh trust me I wont back down. I already made the $6200 phone call to the service manager on Friday. Waiting for him to call me back. Monday should get interesting.


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

quit being paranoid???? easy to say when its not your dime!!!! drive it hard??? what the hell kind of dealership is this? I was a GM tech for 10 yrs. and would have gotten ripped if I said something like that to a customer!!!!


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

If it wasn't sealed correctly, viola vac leak


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

reman oil pressure??? sounds like the engine is a little loose. too loose for 6200. beans!!


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1265883 said:


> If it wasn't sealed correctly, viola vac leak


Thank you for explaining. I'm going to let the truck sit until Monday morning. I don't want to touch a thing to give them an excuse to deny any warranty to fixing this problem.

This will be last time I deal with this dealer upon correcting this issue. If its a GM warranty issue, they seem quick to wanting to fix it. But when its a dealer install issue, my problems are always put on the back burner. I'll be sitting in the dealer lot 7am sharp monday morning.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

nepagearjammer;1265884 said:


> reman oil pressure??? sounds like the engine is a little loose. too loose for 6200. beans!!


At cold start the reman oil pressure is at 42#'s and really pushing the gas the pressure will never raise higher than 42. At warm start or sitting at a red light, the oil pressure is at 32-35#'s. Is this not normal? My stock engine was ALWAYS between the range 40-60's.


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

cause warranty work= getting paid from GM no matter how many parts they throw @ a problem, plus they can BS some extra diagnosis time.

they only get paid once for the install from you.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

neols;1265891 said:


> At cold start the reman oil pressure is at 42#'s and really pushing the gas the pressure will never raise higher than 42. At warm start or sitting at a red light, the oil pressure is at 32-35#'s. Is this not normal? My stock engine was ALWAYS between the range 40-60's.


Seems low, but technically you only need 10psi per 1000rpm. I would think it would be higher.


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

oil pressure is determined by the clearances (thousandths of an inch) during the rebuilding process. If your factory engine w/ 90,000 miles maintained 50 to 60 psi I would def. have a problem esp. after spending 6200.00!!! truck should never have left the dealership!! Some 3.8 olds motors have a 'roughish' idle but not those 6.0 's. fix it don't want hear any more BS!!! ( if you called him on friday and he dident return your call he's already avoiding you...maybe it time for a small claims court...loss of wages from truck being in shop..get the picture)


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

Oh I am being avoided, I'm not stupid. I'm just trying to give them a fair chance to correct the issue before I go Jack Nicholson on somebody. IF they even caused it? Thats what I'm trying to figure out? If it wasn't caused by a faulty installation or an engine issue covered under warranty, thats fine I will pay to fix it. I just want to find out what the issue is and the cause. Not to keep getting blown off. All I know is...it didn't do this before and I sure as helll don't expect it to do it after!

I didn't quite get your oil pressure statement? Are you telling me the reman oil pressure b/w 32-42#'s is ok? Why did my stock engine always run b/w 40-60?


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

because it was assembled w/ closer tolerances...that's really not a deal breaker...the rough idle def. would be a problem...but if it was my money that oil pressure would not be cool w/ me. Sounds like your going to be in a pissing match w/ these guys for some time...give them the chance to fix it...get receipts for everything...demand all the old parts,and save them in case you go to court


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

neols;1265909 said:


> Oh I am being avoided, I'm not stupid. I'm just trying to give them a fair chance to correct the issue before I go Jack Nicholson on somebody. IF they even caused it? Thats what I'm trying to figure out? If it wasn't caused by a faulty installation or an engine issue covered under warranty, thats fine I will pay to fix it. I just want to find out what the issue is and the cause. Not to keep getting blown off. All I know is...it didn't do this before and I sure as helll don't expect it to do it after!
> 
> I didn't quite get your oil pressure statement? Are you telling me the reman oil pressure b/w 32-42#'s is ok? Why did my stock engine always run b/w 40-60?


sounds like they don't know what's wrong w/ it...gets a little expensive throwing parts @ a customer paying job (and explaining to them why all the'needed' parts)


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

just curious, did they diagnosis the blow engine?? HMMMM!!! 94,000 is not a lot of miles for a 6.0 unless it was really overworked. had a shop truck w/ gas air compressor, tools, 18 wheeler truck parts carried around all the time..truck had 160,000 on the clock when I left, ran like a top!!!


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

A rule of thumb is 10psi per 1000rpm is enough to keep the cushion of oil between bearings. GM's minimum hot oil pressure for a 6.0. 6psi @ 1000rpm 18psi @ 2000rpm and 24psi @ 4000rpm. Good luck getting them to do anything about it. They might have assembled the motor loose or forgot the o-ring on the pickup tube to the oil pump


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

nepagearjammer;1265922 said:


> just curious, did they diagnosis the blow engine?? HMMMM!!! 94,000 is not a lot of miles for a 6.0 unless it was really overworked. had a shop truck w/ gas air compressor, tools, 18 wheeler truck parts carried around all the time..truck had 160,000 on the clock when I left, ran like a top!!!


Long story short. My oil cooler lines were leaking. I pulled them out and installed new Dorman ones. Was the biggest SOB job I've ever had to do. Well, the leak was coming from the bronze freeze plug nut on the oil cooler line manifold. It was loose and looked rotted. So before I installed the new cooler lines, I tightened the nut making sure it would never leak again. When I went to start the truck up it ran strong for 10 minutes? All of a sudden I lose all oil pressure and here the engine knock. I think by tightening the nut restricted oil circulation? Dealer claims I chewed up the bearings somehow? When they drained the engine oil, it was the color of silver.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

nepagearjammer;1265917 said:


> because it was assembled w/ closer tolerances...that's really not a deal breaker...the rough idle def. would be a problem...but if it was my money that oil pressure would not be cool w/ me. Sounds like your going to be in a pissing match w/ these guys for some time...give them the chance to fix it...get receipts for everything...demand all the old parts,and save them in case you go to court


*So the closer the tolerances-the tighter the engine.

*The tighter the engine-the less the engine has to work to generate RPM's therefore the lower the oil pressure ?

*A loose engine has wider tolerances-the looser the engine, the harder it has to work to generate the RPM's therefore it needs more oil pressure?


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## BillyRgn (Jan 28, 2004)

Just throwing it out there my 2000 6.0 idled extremely rough but as soon as you stepped on the gas it was fine. It was caused by the truck getting stuck in a snow bank which caused the down tube on one side of the exhaust to split. Had to finish plowing so the truck sounded like it was on straight pipes and the check engine light was on. Fixed the pipe but still had the rough idle problem and a check engine light. It ended up the Oxygen sensors (upstream and down stream) on the pipe that broke ended up bad, fixed them and was back to normal. I no your check engine light is not on but is there a chance it could be a oxygen sensor? Or a small exhaust leak that is sealing up with the warmer engine?


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

neols;1265935 said:


> *So the closer the tolerances-the tighter the engine.
> 
> *The tighter the engine-the less the engine has to work to generate RPM's therefore the lower the oil pressure ?
> 
> *A loose engine has wider tolerances-the looser the engine, the harder it has to work to generate the RPM's therefore it needs more oil pressure?


oil is pumped by the oil pump through passages in the engine block to various points in the engine...the oil pressure is determined how many thousandths of an inch clearance is between the crankshaft and bearings....so as the engine get older/miles on it the oil clearance increases lowering your oil pressure. I just like to see higher oil pressure in a new motor...is it absolutely necessary, no.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

BillyRgn;1265939 said:


> Just throwing it out there my 2000 6.0 idled extremely rough but as soon as you stepped on the gas it was fine. It was caused by the truck getting stuck in a snow bank which caused the down tube on one side of the exhaust to split. Had to finish plowing so the truck sounded like it was on straight pipes and the check engine light was on. Fixed the pipe but still had the rough idle problem and a check engine light. It ended up the Oxygen sensors (upstream and down stream) on the pipe that broke ended up bad, fixed them and was back to normal. I no your check engine light is not on but is there a chance it could be a oxygen sensor? Or a small exhaust leak that is sealing up with the warmer engine?


No engine light. 2 small holes on the bottom side of the muffler are my only exhaust leaks that I know of. They did replace both exhaust manifolds...? I doubt my O2 sensors are bad, unless they damaged them somehow during the install of the new engine? Wouldn't I get a dummy light if they were bad?


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

nepagearjammer;1265950 said:


> oil is pumped by the oil pump through passages in the engine block to various points in the engine...the oil pressure is determined how many thousandths of an inch clearance is between the crankshaft and bearings....so as the engine get older/miles on it the oil clearance increases lowering your oil pressure. I just like to see higher oil pressure in a new motor...is it absolutely necessary, no.


I understand now. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Just another thing I'll add to the list come Monday morning. I swear, in this industry its always something.


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## rooferdave (Jan 23, 2010)

two words for you twit ter try tweeting your problemsthese things can sometimes go viral! Also start emailing your requests to the dealler and cc gm head office and all your local media. In your first email that you send detail what you paid and all that has happened, above all be polite and do not be mad, but dissappointed at how you feel let down and ignored. Bring up the fact that you were willing to pay extra to have a reputable firm like gm fix your truck, to avoid the horror stories that happen when people go to other garages.

After this update all on what is going on, nothing like putting a dealership manager in the hot seat.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

3/15/11 update: 

Well, I showed up at the dealer at 8am sharp yesterday and lets just say the red carpet was rolled out for me. So far at least, and for how long? The dealer manager greeted me as I walked in and addressed all my concerns. He was quick to deny getting my 3 messages left at the service department and insisted my truck is in good hands. 

For all that have posted on why my truck is shaking, I sincerely thank you...as I trust Plowsite members before the dealer. The dealer claims that I would have dummy lights on if the truck had ignition issues, vac or intake leaks. He insists some/all the fuel injectors are weak; and do not have the proper flow to push the new engine causing an imbalance, thus making the truck shake at idle. I have an appointment for first thing tomorrow so they can run some tests. The dealer offers a service that can clean the injectors. Not from additives poured into the gas tank, but from a pressure system? The dealer manager said they will do that service for free if they think it will fix the problem. If not, I guess I can expect an $800 injector job. 

I made it very clear that the worst thing the dealer can do is ignore me or not return my phone calls. If I don't return my customers' phone calls, in the end I wouldn't have any and they agreed. Staying positive at the moment that by tomorrow evening, my baby will idle like a Cadillac. Again, the Chevy forum on here has a wealth of knowledge from experts, and I can't thank you all enough from what I've learned over the years. Wish me luck!


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

rooferdave;1267301 said:


> two words for you twit ter try tweeting your problemsthese things can sometimes go viral! Also start emailing your requests to the dealler and cc gm head office and all your local media. In your first email that you send detail what you paid and all that has happened, above all be polite and do not be mad, but dissappointed at how you feel let down and ignored. Bring up the fact that you were willing to pay extra to have a reputable firm like gm fix your truck, to avoid the horror stories that happen when people go to other garages.
> 
> After this update all on what is going on, nothing like putting a dealership manager in the hot seat.


+1 on the manager in the hot seat!!! fuel injectors are electronic devices and may have been damaged/disturbed during the engine replacement. Sounds like they plan on doing a injector cleaning and a cylinder balance test. What did they have to say about the oil psi.?


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

nepagearjammer;1267573 said:


> +1 on the manager in the hot seat!!! fuel injectors are electronic devices and may have been damaged/disturbed during the engine replacement. Sounds like they plan on doing a injector cleaning and a cylinder balance test. What did they have to say about the oil psi.?


That's exactly what they are going to do and then go from there. I asked him if the injectors could have gotten damaged during the swap, and he said absolutely not. He went to go get an injector and showed it to me, and simply asked how could we (as in the dealer) damage this during the swap? I simply said anything could happen and he gave me a dirty look. What is the process of a cylinder balance test?

I asked him about the oil pressure. He agrees its a bit low; but insisted that the truck ran strong at idle for 2 hours after the install completion, and if he felt it was that big of an issue he would have yanked it back out and order a replacement. Rolled eyes. I called him out asking if the engine was rebuilt loose, and he simply states that its within General Motors spec. I told him that I want the oil pressure complaint down in writing, so if I ever have an oil pressure related issue at 50k miles or 150k miles that I'm not going to be responsible. I'm not leaving the dealership tomorrow until its down on paper.


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## rooferdave (Jan 23, 2010)

neols;1267614 said:


> That's exactly what they are going to do and then go from there. I asked him if the injectors could have gotten damaged during the swap, and he said absolutely not. He went to go get an injector and showed it to me, and simply asked how could we (as in the dealer) damage this during the swap? I simply said anything could happen and he gave me a dirty look. What is the process of a cylinder balance test?
> 
> I asked him about the oil pressure. He agrees its a bit low; but insisted that the truck ran strong at idle for 2 hours after the install completion, and if he felt it was that big of an issue he would have yanked it back out and order a replacement. Rolled eyes. I called him out asking if the engine was rebuilt loose, and he simply states that its within General Motors spec. I told him that I want the oil pressure complaint down in writing, so if I ever have an oil pressure related issue at 50k miles or 150k miles that I'm not going to be responsible. I'm not leaving the dealership tomorrow until its down on paper.


again.... send an email and cc to the press and head office have your disscussions via email... then if there is a problem in the future not only do you have proof but egg on the dealers face for letting it go..........please do not be another person I had to say "I told you so" to PROTECT AND COVER YOUR ASS!!!


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

It's not the injector. Maybe a fuel pressure regulator, but you would most likely have a hard start issue.


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

a cylinder balance test measures the time each injector is held open(milliseconds) spraying fuel into each cylinder...so that all are the same. ser. mgr. is full of sh** when he tells you a vacuume leak will throw a code...has been a cause of many driveability issue to many technicians !!! + 1 on the e-mail to gm...need to get them involved..refering to my earlier post about stuff rolling down hill.


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## USMCMP5811 (Aug 31, 2008)

I did a motor swap in a early 90's Chevy a few ears ago. Damn thing wouldn't idle for beans and kept throwing a check engine light with all kinds of codes. What ended up fixing the problem after the swap, Truck had to be sent to the dealer for the ECM to be flashed.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

Just got home. Update coming soon. I'm sick as a dog and home internet connection is down. Bad news.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1267659 said:


> It's not the injector. Maybe a fuel pressure regulator, but you would most likely have a hard start issue.


When my FPR went out on my 6.0 it idled horribly rough, on the verge of stalling out and sometimes I had to put my foot on the gas at a stoplight to keep it running. Started 100% normally though.

Neols, don't want to hear bad news...not after reading all the rest of this thread.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

Nichols is correct. Doing a shot of warm Scotch and will be online here shortly.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

That should be good news though...except that I bet you're on the hook for an $800 injector clenaing now.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

3/16/11 Update

Long story short, I've spent nearly $15k on "service repairs" on my truck. Whether at the dealer or in my garage. It practically has a new bumper to bumper warranty. Again. Lol. I'm actually a GM Preferred Customer now with a fancy key chain that was given to me. I guess the more I spend with GM on repairs the more points I earn. I think I've spent enough...

Bought the 2002 2500hd truck used at 40k miles 3 years ago, and to this day the black cloud is still over me. Why me? With all the money I've spent on her; she has been practically rebuilt, and members of Plowsite that I know here locally can attest to its condition. It breaks my heart knowing that I could be driving a brand new truck rather than a mint condition 2002 one. Whatever. Its my fault for buying her. She looked so pristine on the dealer lot when I bought her, I took the gamble of thinking what the hell could be possibly wrong with her at 40k miles? Last time I ever assume and buy used. 

After almost 3 hours of tests today, I went to talk to the head mechanic to see what the latest was. He simply didn't know yet. He did know that it passed the fuel injector cylinder balance test with flying colors. Intake manifold was good, no vac leaks, no ignition issues what so ever. What a surprise) An hour later, he started performing a leak test on the engine? But the machine failed on him and couldn't narrow down exactly why the truck is shaking. As much as my head hurts from being ill, I can't remember exactly how he discovered this...but him and the service manager agree that cylinders 4 & 6 are not firing properly. Severe misfire of those two cylinders are causing the truck to shake extremely bad, almost to the point of stalling. 

This is where it gets amusing. They need to get their leak testing unit fixed, and want me to drop the truck off come Monday morning. That gives them enough time to get the machine fixed, and spend a good portion of the day narrowing down the problem. That's fine, but I made it very clear to the manager that I'm a week away from dropping mulch. I either need my trucked fixed by then or a loaner. He promised me both will happen. No problem. He then proceeded to show me the claim number with GM, and said we'll have a better answer on Monday on how we're going to deal with this. I asked him what are my options? He said there is only one. We will ship the head out to be machined and rebuild the cylinders. I simply laughed. With 4 & 6 not firing properly, and low oil pressure, there is no way in hell for $6200 am I going to let you rebuild this engine. Its either my money back in full with my blown engine returned and installed, or a new re-manufactured engine installed. He said he will get the local district manager involved and see what they could do about another engine ordered. If that happens, this will be the third engine installed and on my third transmission already. Ha ha! What a mess this POS is. 

In the meantime, he recommended me not to drive it much and hang tight until Monday. We'll go from there. I told him the day I picked it up when the engine was installed, I complained about the low oil pressure and the truck shaking. And everyone at the dealer, including my Father told me to quit being paranoid and drive her hard. I asked for an apology, and they both walked away with their tails between their legs. I got in the truck and left. 

Last time I EVER let a dealer talk me out of my gut instincts. With all my bad luck with this truck and Emark mowers, I know that once something is taken apart and put back together...it never runs or looks the same. My foot is down on this one. Money back or new engine. 

Question to you Plowsite guys, do cylinders fire on fuel and lubricate with engine oil? Could there be a bad seal letting the oil pressure run low causing the truck to shake?


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## rooferdave (Jan 23, 2010)

send an email to your dealer and gm what you have said here as to why money or old engine (never happen) back cc to your local paper or have you already??????????


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

neols;1267924 said:


> 3/16/11 Update
> 
> Long story short, I've spent nearly $15k on "service repairs" on my truck. Whether at the dealer or in my garage. It practically has a new bumper to bumper warranty. Again. Lol. I'm actually a GM Preferred Customer now with a fancy key chain that was given to me. I guess the more I spend with GM on repairs the more points I earn. I think I've spent enough...
> 
> ...


The cylinder is only lubed by "splash" off the crank and rods. I'd tell them you don't want a rebuilt rebuild and order another motor


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## BillyRgn (Jan 28, 2004)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1268022 said:


> The cylinder is only lubed by "splash" off the crank and rods. I'd tell them you don't want a rebuilt rebuild and order another motor


Exactly you bought a rebuilt engine, not a rebuild of a rebuilt. I'd push even harder and say you want a new crate engine at no charge


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## nepagearjammer (Sep 12, 2010)

At this point I'd demand a new crate motor...no way would I let them fix that motor!!! This is your business vehicle which you need to make money. They need to get off the pot and get busy!!! was the $6200 just for the engine replacement?? that's awful high, and to have all these issues...they should have offered you a loaner truck..not bring it back when they confirmed 2 cylinders are misfiring, what the hell kind of dealership is this?? please for the love of God get the GM customer service involved in this!!!


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## BillyRgn (Jan 28, 2004)

Did you say you had an extended gm warranty?


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

They gave him a 5 year or 100000 mile warranty with the new motor and he is on his 3rd tranny (which I believe has 3 yrs left on that warranty) because they keep crapping out on him. He is a good friend of mine and know this truck first hand and he takes extremely good care of all of his equipment. He has just ran into bad luck with this truck. He pretty much has a brand new truck right now with a new motor that is crap.


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## BillyRgn (Jan 28, 2004)

I imagine you got somesort of warranty with the engine and I thought that under any gm warranty if they have to take your vehicle from you for more than a working day they have to give you a loaner 100% on them you just pay gas and have to be over 21 I think. The only thing I think is it would probably be a 1500. No matter what they say it is on them, you claimed problems from day one you didn't have it a week and have something just pop up. Be firm but don't try to threaten or push them to much in the beginning as they are used to it and will just drag it out and make it as pain full as possible. There are certain times when "you get more bee's with honey than vinegar" then there are times when you say screw the honey but it helps to start with honey first. Is this the dealer you bought the truck from? Every time I have trouble at the dealer I go and see the guy I buy all my trucks from and he goes in and raises hell with the service manager and generally gets it done for me. He wants to keep me happy so I buy my next vehicle threw him and not else ware. A good salesman will go to bat for you as another potential sale is worth it to them....and it doesn't hurt to mention you maybe in the market in the next 90days for a new vehicle to give the dealership incentive to make you happy in these tough economic times after all they will get gm to reimbursed them.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

$6200 included tax, rebuilt 6.0l, new engine mounts, new water pump, new plugs, new wires, new serpentine belt, new exhaust manifolds & seals/bolts, new oil pressure sending unit, sensor, oil/filter, new oil cooler lines, new starter, and a coolant flush. And obviously labor. The dealer gives me a blanket 10% discount on all parts and labor for as much as I spent with them. That $6200 included a $1100 discount. Remember, GM is running some kind of a rewards program for people who spend more than $10k in service? I've collected so many points with this truck, along with the 10% discount came out to $1100 off the total bill. The bill originally was $7300. I have one year left in truck payments, and have soooo much money tied up in her now, that I have no choice to keep her.

All OEM General Motor parts. The engine carries a 5 year 100k mile warranty including labor. My new transmission has a 3 year 36k mile warranty. $10k is tied up between the tranny and engine alone. The remaining $5k...the list is so long it would take me a week to type it out. Truck is practically rebuilt except for a blown left bass speaker. $50 more I need to dump into the truck. I might push to see if they would throw that in for all my headaches. Hydroboost is leaking, exhaust is bad, and a/c just went. Probably $3k to fix all that. The only thing left is to repaint the truck box and tailgate. And maybe new rims if I have a good mowing season?

Trust me guys, Monday morning when I drop her off won't be pretty. It's either a new engine, or my money back. I'm fed up with this truck. I ordered a rebuilt, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let them rebuild it again. With only 2000 miles on this engine. Especially after I b!tched about the low oil pressure and shaking the day I picked her up. They need to run some kind of a leak pressure test Monday to really narrow down why 4 & 6 aren't firing right. I could not care less what those results are. I'M DEMANDING A NEW ENGINE. And all those extra parts I added to the engine swap, well I want all of those replaced as well.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

Trying to add pics of her so you can see my PITA baby...


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=72395

There she is...we're having a love hate relationship right now.


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## kashman (Jan 13, 2004)

id be asking for a new motor 6200 could have got 2 new motors


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

What's the reason for the leak down? They thinking head gasket, or cracked head? They must be thinking mechanical because of the 4 and 6 cylinder issue. But you should have an engine light.

Holy moley smokey, I just looked for remaned 6.0's $3-3,400 and you have over $7k into this deal?


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1268166 said:


> What's the reason for the leak down? They thinking head gasket, or cracked head? They must be thinking mechanical because of the 4 and 6 cylinder issue. But you should have an engine light


They don't know yet. They started testing for the leak down today, but a testing tool failed on them during the process. Thats why I need to bring it back Monday so they have time to get it fixed. They do know its mechanical related, definitely not a head gasket issue or cracked head.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes rebuilt engines are not cheap. They gave me 2 options. A GM certified or a Jasper. I was told that GM only re-uses the block. Everything is brand new. Jasper machines all existing parts. No new parts? And a GM was $300 more than a Jasper, and Jaspers warranty sucks. 

I have nearly $6200 into the engine swap. The truck has 94k miles on it, so I replaced a bunch of other items brand new during the engine swap. The long list of new parts is listed above. They don't charge extra for labor. Whether they install new; or rip it off the old and put on the new, it's all the same labor price.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

neols;1268172 said:


> They don't know yet. They started testing for the leak down today, but a testing tool failed on them during the process. Thats why I need to bring it back Monday so they have time to get it fixed. They do know its mechanical related, definitely not a head gasket issue or cracked head.


But.........? Never mind guess we'll just have to wait and see.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

But? Am I confusing you?


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

I think whats confusing here is why they're doing this in the first place. It really doesn't matter WHY those cylinders aren't working right...the fact that you spent that kind of coin on the remanufactured engine, that engine has a warranty AND you were complainging about it the day you wrote them a check all leads to the fact that they need to replace this engine with at the very least another remanufactured engine, if not a new crate motor.

They've proven that there is a problem with the motor they sold you in good faith, they ned to replace that motor...not repair it.


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## Stik208 (Oct 19, 2004)

With all these problems and money spent would it not have been a better decision to get rid of it for a newer vehicle? I mean you said 15k in repairs thats a good chunk of change for a down payment or even a cash used truck. Tax write-off also.


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## RichG53 (Sep 16, 2008)

Gee !!! Every time some posts some thoughts the price of the repairs keeps going up..


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

I still have one year left on payments with the bank. The truck is mint. Trade in value with a blown engine $1800. Trade in value with an engine that runs $7000. If I try and sell her privately, I'd be lucky to get $10,000. If I show you a folder 6" thick with all repairs/improvements done to her adding up to $15,000, how much would you offer me? I don't want a penny less than $20,000 for her, and that day will never happen. 

I've passed the point of no return with her. The best financial situation for my business is to keep her to make my money back and some. Sure, I'd love to trade her in. But that will come with negative equity and a $700 new truck payment. I don't want that. And I would never trade her in on a used truck. Certified or not. The black cloud will follow.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

mayhem;1268242 said:


> I think whats confusing here is why they're doing this in the first place. It really doesn't matter WHY those cylinders aren't working right...the fact that you spent that kind of coin on the remanufactured engine, that engine has a warranty AND you were complainging about it the day you wrote them a check all leads to the fact that they need to replace this engine with at the very least another remanufactured engine, if not a new crate motor.
> 
> They've proven that there is a problem with the motor they sold you in good faith, they ned to replace that motor...not repair it.


I couldn't agree with you more. Come Monday the war begins. I'm trying to stay calm, and take the nice guy approach for now. By Monday, I will be feeling better and can think with a clear mind. The bottom line is, I want a new engine and will not give up until I get one. The dealer knows that, and it will be emphasized even more when I drop her off.


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## RichG53 (Sep 16, 2008)

Just a thought ...Have them check the valve springs....I went through this with a reman ...
Many years ago Checked and checked and checked even tried a new computer mod. nothing fixed it until the valve covers were pulled and found a broken spring...
Replaced it it ran just beautiful...

Just some thing that came to mind ..
Since you said it was mechical...


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

Anybody know what the normal percent of leak-down is acceptable on a new rebuilt?


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

3/24/11 Update:

Sorry for the delay. Just can't seem to kick this cold I've got. 

Dropped her off Monday. Had a few verbal exchanges with the Service Manager regarding how to proceed with getting her fixed. All in front of other customers. Wasn't very professional on either parties. But; what was said was said, and we can't take it back now. I made it very clear on what I wanted, my money refunded or a new "rebuilt" engine ordered. He said neither was going to happen. Work was already completed, and GM fixes their engine problems, not replace them. That's what the warranty is for. In no way was I going to let them machine the head and rebuild it. I made that very clear to him. Before I left his office; I told him I wanted to know what was wrong, and authorization from me before they fix any problems they find including the low oil pressure issue. Walked out...

Regarding a loaner vehicle. He offered a 1 day complimentary rental car, but any day after that would be up to GM to pay for. I laughed and declined. Wasn't worth the headache to fight GM for a rental when I have family members willing to helping me out.

As I was leaving, the head mechanic was working on the leak-down test. I informed him not to fix a damn thing until I was notified first. He agreed. I asked what he thought was going on? He simply stated he had no clue until he digs deeper into the problem. He mumbled something about the bearings maybe being bad as he was hooking up the pressure gauges, but wasn't sure...I heard enough at that point. I left.

24 hours went by and I didn't hear a peep from the dealer. I decided to call to see WTF was going on. An hour later I missed 2 calls from the Service Manager. I listened to the voicemails he had left me. He claimed he had decent news. Well what is decent news? It's either good or bad! 

I called him back. He told me with the help of his boss at the dealer, and the district manager they got GM to agree to send me a new "rebuilt" engine. They had spent the past 24 hours on the phone with GM Powertrain trying to find out the problem of this engine. GM wanted the dealer to open the engine up to inspect the oil pump (thinking that's where the low oil pressure problem is), and the head to find the cause of the issue with cylinders 4 & 6. The dealer refused. 

The dealer knew unless they got me a replacement engine, no matter what they found or how they were going to proceed to fix it, I was not going to be satisfied. I would have never authorized anything short of putting a new engine in or my money refunded. The service Manager apologized numerous times for raising his voice at me during our verbal altercation. I accepted and apologized as well. He further stated, that GM is in a customer satisfaction rebuilding process. They had to push a bit, but in the end, GM went against all company protocols agreeing to ship and pay for a replacement engine install. It's either keep me happy as a Chevy customer, or watch me tow the truck out of the dealer and straight to a Ford dealer. 

In the end, Spitzer Chevrolet and General Motors stepped up and did the right thing. They have a satisfied customer now, and most likely for life. On my way in a bit to stop by the dealer to get some things out of the truck. Will ask a few more questions in person and will update later.


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## RichG53 (Sep 16, 2008)

They have a satisfied customer now, and most likely for life.

You may want to hold off saying that until it is done !!!!


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

Years ago GM had Target engines. These were new engines from the factory. 99% complete engines. Included almost everything. New water pump, intake manifold, etc. Very little was needed to be switched over from the original engine to the new engine.

New is always better then rebuilt. So everyone should remember next time ask if they have target engines.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

RichG53;1271888 said:


> They have a satisfied customer now, and most likely for life.
> 
> You may want to hold off saying that until it is done !!!!


Touche. You're right! I'm just satisfied that my dealer and GM are doing the right thing. In this economy, it gets tougher and tougher to even have a manufacturer warranty their problems.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

32vld;1271891 said:


> Years ago GM had Target engines. These were new engines from the factory. 99% complete engines. Included almost everything. New water pump, intake manifold, etc. Very little was needed to be switched over from the original engine to the new engine.
> 
> New is always better then rebuilt. So everyone should remember next time ask if they have target engines.


I would have paid extra if this still exists. GM has only one part number in their computer system for a 6.0l Vortec, and it's for a rebuilt one. I wish there was a way for GM to just rebuild my stock engine, and ship it back to the dealer. Anybody hear of such a thing? Can that request be done or am I pushing it?


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## Squires (Jan 9, 2009)

Not sure the price, but there are new crate engines out there
http://gmhorsepower.com/LQ9.php
http://www.jrgmparts.com/GM_Perform...arts_Crat/6point0l_lq4_lq9_gm_parts_crat.html

the price you mentioned earlier sounds completly unreasonable, having it rebuilt at a reputable engine shop would probably have been your best option for both quality and price, hopefully it all works out for you, other option is to track down a wreck that has low miles.....
Best of luck


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Squires;1272052 said:


> Not sure the price, but there are new crate engines out there
> http://gmhorsepower.com/LQ9.php
> http://www.jrgmparts.com/GM_Perform...arts_Crat/6point0l_lq4_lq9_gm_parts_crat.html
> 
> ...


I agree.............. crate engines are the way to go, don't know why your dealer didn't suggest it.http://www.plowsite.com/showpost.php?p=1271974&postcount=22247


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

Mr.Markus;1272068 said:


> I agree.............. crate engines are the way to go, don't know why your dealer didn't suggest it.http://www.plowsite.com/showpost.php?p=1271974&postcount=22247


Are those engines provided in the links brand new or rebuilt? What's the core charge and warranty? I practically bought a crate engine including install.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Their new....12 months 12,000miles warranty, just over $3000 as seen in my post.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

Mr.Markus;1272233 said:


> Their new....12 months 12,000miles warranty, just over $3000 as seen in my post.


That's a joke of a warranty. My rebuilt cost me just over $3k, and GM is willing to give me a 100k mile warranty on it. And it's rebuilt, not new. For a brand new engine, why wouldn't they give a longer warranty? Just goes to show how much that company stands behind their engines. Same goes for Jasper-$3k for a rebuilt, and only a 36k mile warranty? Thanks but no thanks. I'd rather pay a bit more and sleep at night knowing I have a decent warranty if something goes wrong. I live out of my truck, and could easily put 12k miles on it in 6 months.


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## midnightrun7 (Jun 2, 2014)

I had a rough Idle when my Transmission was running hot. Replaced the torque converter and no more rough idle.
The converter was causing problems up when the Transmission got too hot. When I put it into drive or reverse "Hot" she almost stalled, when it was cold it ran fine. Just a thought!

Also, had a weird shifting problem when both my license plate lights burnt out....Go figure! Electrical Problems can cause a whole bunch of strange problems, especially with sand and salt on the road. I'm assuming you plow...lol


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## snowymassbowtie (Sep 22, 2013)

*Another option*

Is if there not fixing it, its pretty easy to make the engine go poof. Then they have to replace the engine when theres a rod hanging out the side of it or theres lots of noise when its running,besides the mechanic told him to run the crap out of it. Maybe not the right way but look at what they put him thru.For the money and aggravation he went thru is why I wouldnt hesitate to make that new engine problem that they wont or cant fix be a bigger problem that has to be fixed and can be easily diagnosed.This is not a chevy or ford problem its this way with anything mow. Companies that wont stand behind what they do and people that dont want to do the right thing to correct the problem.
Nobody wants to be responsible for anything anymore. The stress you go thru just to get what you paid for,its really sad.


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