# my terrapro contract



## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

this what i have come up for my unlimited contract, my per visit contract will be similar with a few tweaks here and there. let me know what you guys think

__________________________________________________________________________

TERRAPRO
UNLIMITED SNOW REMOVAL CONTRACT
WINTER 2006-2007​
Terms and agreements:

Terrapro agrees to remove snow by means of plow and shovel at customer and vendor agreed upon site
2 inches is the minimum accumulation of snow before removal of snow will occur unless otherwise decided by Terrapro
If extra services including but not limited to salting is agreed upon between vendor and customer it will be through verbal or written contract and extra services will be included in next bill
Salting will possibly harm surrounding vegetation and customer will take into account Terrapro will not be held liable for damage to vegetation that might occur during and after the process of salting
Terrapro will not be held liable for any accidents that occurred to residents, visitors, or pedestrians because of weather conditions including but not limited to snow and ice build up
Terrapro will not be held liable for damage to any hidden objects during the process of snow removal
Terrapro will not be held liable for any damages that will occur upon melting of piled snow
If large objects including but not limited to cars and other motorized equipment are in the area in need of snow removal the process of snow removal will be finished at earliest convenience to vendor when area is clear
Two plow visits in a 24 hour period is the maximum amount Terrapro is required to service. Additional visits will be charged by flat rate and agreed upon between customer and vendor either in verbal or written contract 
Payment due will be net 30 days of date billed
There is a $15 late fee per every 15 days after due date of bill

Service date from_______________________________ to___________________________________.

Monthly service fee___________________________	Contract date_____________________________

I____________________________________ hereby agree to all terms and agreements herein.

Signature	___________________________Signed date____________________________________

Vendor signature____________________________________	Signed date________________________


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Are you Incorporated? Because if you aren't and your names not terrapro that contracts usesless.

The thing I hate about damned near every contract I see no matter how simple is the threatening tone.

You Must

Were Not!

No Responsability!

Ugh.

Im about ready to just cash out, fly to the cayman islands sit on the beach all day, sell sunglasses to tourists, watch the waves and let my beard grow until the birds come and cover me with leaves.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

no im a sole proprietor with a registered DBA. the way i understand it is no matter which way i cut it i am my business and my business is me. i always assumed i would be covered and saying my business name instead of my real name sounds more professional. why would it be usless, im not trying to sound like an ass i really want to know. i definately dont want to mess up on the liability issue im use to being liable for cutting invisable fence lines and killing plants not slip and falls 

inform me otherwise please, thats why i put this up


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

If you're cutting invisible fences plowing snow theres a problem...lol

I dunno....maybe you're protected maybe you aren't.

Id include your name as dba before the company name at least.

Im not sure how many people will be anxious to sign a contract releasing you from "all" liability, and if it ever went to court an attorney would probably eat that contract for lunch no matter who signed it.

But....ya gotta try to protecdt your interests I suppose.

Thats why I have a 2 Million dollar liability policy. I hope you do as well.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

LLM Ann Arbor said:


> If you're cutting invisible fences plowing snow theres a problem...lol
> 
> Thats why I have a 2 Million dollar liability policy. I hope you do as well.


lol no i do landscaping in the other seasons

also i have 1mil coverage and thinking of bumping it to 2mil


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## Rcgm (Dec 17, 2000)

If you are not incorperated anyone that wants to become incorperated can use your name.So I could become terrapro today and sue you for using my name.
Just a little info


RCGM
Brad


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

Rcgm said:


> If you are not incorperated anyone that wants to become incorperated can use your name.So I could become terrapro today and sue you for using my name.
> Just a little info
> 
> RCGM
> Brad


actually you can only be sued *for the name* once it is registered with the county clerks. if i can make decent money in snow removal i will be an LLC by spring


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

terrapro said:


> actually you can only be sued *for the name* once it is registered with the county clerks. if i can make decent money in snow removal i will be an LLC by spring


You might want to file your LLC now.

It is cheep to do and if things do not work out you will still have it.

A LLc is a good idea fort a lot of reasons.. T
he biggest is it separates your business property from your personal property.

So. if someone sues you and wins they can not thake your house and every thing you own.
They can only go after the assets that your LLC owns.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

SnoFarmer said:


> You might want to file your LLC now.
> 
> It is cheep to do and if things do not work out you will still have it.
> 
> ...


actually you can sue whomever you want for whatever you want. if someone wanted to sue me theyll sue me if someone wanted to sue your employee for damage to property they could, they probably wouldnt get away with it but they can try. the type of business you have does not give you that much liability protection, its mainly for tax purposes. liability protection is what insurance is for. thats why we have general liability and doctors have malpractice.


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## Tscape (Jan 19, 2004)

terrapro said:


> actually you can sue whomever you want for whatever you want. if someone wanted to sue me theyll sue me if someone wanted to sue your employee for damage to property they could, they probably wouldnt get away with it but they can try. the type of business you have does not give you that much liability protection, its mainly for tax purposes. liability protection is what insurance is for. thats why we have general liability and doctors have malpractice.


You misunderstand something: LLC stands for "Limited Liability Company". The primary idea behind it is to shield the owner from liabilty. That protection has been pierced in some cases, but that does not render the entire concept moot. It is your best protection. It is one that I do not take for granted and I pay my yearly maintenence fee to keep it current.

You are needlessly exposing yourself to liability every day.


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## snoking (Jul 4, 2002)

incorporation through the state superseeds county level name registration. you can have many companies in a state the share a name xx miles apart but you can only have 1 lcc company in that state with that name...if i make sense

also doesnt matter what you have them signed

example....you have a customere that you just plow. they signed that they would pay extra for salt. they dont get into work till 8. call you 810am. you salt by 845am...they had a slip in fall at 825am.,.everyone will drop the blame on you "i called him at xxxam didint chow up till xxxam" not your fault you had o wait for a call.....hopefully you can see what im saying....


i have no responsibility clause in my contracts. my nsurance loves it...seriously
all i do is state any property damege will be fixed by april 15th, if i get a call from an apartment that pays 50g a year about ten dead plants. i go out replace with new and hand them a contract for next your while its fresh in their mind we fixed it right.

i carry 3 million liability and and an extra 1 mill for property damage plus the rest of the regular stuff....

plus by telling them everything your not responsible for they will figure our planning on all that happeninh and will sign with the first guy (like me) that will fix. lasr year i had three guys for slmost 4 weeks fixing plow damage....


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

terrapro said:


> actually you can sue whomever you want for whatever you want. if someone wanted to sue me theyll sue me if someone wanted to sue your employee for damage to property they could, they probably wouldnt get away with it but they can try. the type of business you have does not give you that much liability protection, its mainly for tax purposes. liability protection is what insurance is for. thats why we have general liability and doctors have malpractice.


Yes, they can still sue you, but they should be suing your business if you are organized..
Anyone can sue Anyone,

They may be able to get your business and all of it's assets,. but registering as an L.L.C. will HELP protect your personal assets. It separates you from your busesness.

yes, you will still need to carry INS..


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

snoking said:


> i have no responsibility clause in my contracts. my nsurance loves it...seriously
> all i do is state any property damege will be fixed by april 15th, if i get a call from an apartment that pays 50g a year about ten dead plants. i go out replace with new and hand them a contract for next your while its fresh in their mind we fixed it right.
> 
> plus by telling them everything your not responsible for they will figure our planning on all that happeninh and will sign with the first guy (like me) that will fix. lasr year i had three guys for slmost 4 weeks fixing plow damage....


what do you mean by "no responsibility clause".....what would you not be responsible for, slip and falls or property damage? are you saying that i should not state in my contract what i will not be responsible for.

thanks for the good reply!


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

SnoFarmer said:


> Yes, they can still sue you, but they should be suing your business if you are organized..
> Anyone can sue Anyone,
> 
> They may be able to get your business and all of it's assets,. but registering as an L.L.C. will HELP protect your personal assets. It separates you from your busesness.
> ...


are you agreeing with me then?


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## Lynch & Sons Landscapin (Sep 5, 2006)

*LLC Protection*

An LLC will offer some protection toward your personal assests should one of your employees f up. However, should you do some serious damage, the company can be sued, and you as the operator can also be sued.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

hey mike hopefully ill be getting ahold of you soon. still been pretty busy with cleanups here 

hey guys i didnt want this to turn into a debate, what do you think of the contract


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## snoking (Jul 4, 2002)

if you are not going to salt a lot everytime you plow, you can not be held liable. Have them sign a seperate waiver from the contract that states you arent responsible the the safety of the parking lot if they arent full service....if the tell you when you can salt they have accepted liability. by it being seperate they have to cross it off your contract, again accepting liabilty.

eat the rest/build it into your cost. if you do 45000/per whats a big deal to eat 2-3000 keeping your customere happy and not asking themselves does he just plan on ripping my yard out??...take pictures of the property, grass, bushes, curbs...call it good....IMO

keep it simple, keep them happy, the less questions they have the less they will call...the more they will wonder about the other guy cause you said not a problem dont worry about it ill take care of it....

just my view....seems to work well


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

terrapro said:


> are you agreeing with me then?


O.k. what i meant is they may try to sue personally in a civil court..
They can try...

But setting up a L.L.C.
Is to protect the business owner from exposer. 
I own my LLC 
so they would probably try to take it to a civil court.....

Just because they file a suite does not mean it will go to trial.

But if someone gets killed because of something your compeny did, the lawyers are going to try to get every penny they can out of you....
so, if you would like to protect your self from some thing your company may do..

File your LLC papers, it is inexpensive to do.. and worth every penny.. 
it could save your house..


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## ECS (Nov 11, 2005)

Thanks SnoFarmer. Good info for all of us.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Just curious. if you have in a signed contract. 

Im not respnsible for ANYTHING, like some of you do, and someone signs it, why do you have insurance.

Good info on the LLC. I should be doing that as well but all this Im not responsible stuff in contracts creeps me out.

I dont think Id sign a contract like that.

Would you?


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Also. Are there any laws regarding "Late Fees"

Yours seem excessive if the balance owed is low. Say someone only owes you 35 dollars. Do you still charge a 15 dollar fee if they pay 1 day after the due date?

And how long do you give them as a grace period before the bill is due?

My invoices all say due on receipt.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

If someone does get hurt or killed your contract may not protect you at all.

Some things you can not sign away. Especially if a third party is involved.

Some will say I'm crazy for this (easy there LLM!!!) as I do not have a contract with a single customer, never have! A hand shake is all.
I have only had one person "try" to sue me for a slip and fall in 27 years.
The restaurants Ins paid.

Having said that I can see where in the right circumstances a contract is needed.

Especially a performance clause...


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Good god finally we see eye to eye on something.

I dont use contracts either and people love it.

Mostly because all contracts seem threatening and are 100% in favor of the contractor. Having that shoved in their face after spending time convincing them how honest and reliable you are just seems insulting to me, and contradictory.

I have had a few sign a simple hand written service agreement that describes price only but very few, and I only do it because people forget things.


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## ECS (Nov 11, 2005)

This is becoming a very scarey thread!


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Now if I had a commercial account to prepare properly, Id use a contract that supposedly locks them into a multi year deal...per visit as usual of course, but I wouldn't load it up with negative speak.

But lawyers will eat these contracts for breakfast frankly.....


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## jbone (Mar 18, 2006)

The company that I plow for sets up the contract WITH the customer, they walk/drive the entire property and agree upon what was already damaged prior snow removal operations. so long as they give him the right to determine when salting and plowing lots and roadways is needed the liability is all on him, and he accepts that and that what he pays insurance for. Whatever is damaged at the end of the season is repaired by him. 

I think you shoud tell your customer, that you are covered for slip and falls so long as when/where to plow and salt is at your discretion. Otherwise the liability is on their part (like stated above). But if you fail in any way to hold up your end of the bargain you are SOL if someone gets hurt. Its only fair that you offer to repair what you damage. After all you should be marking the property for those "hidden" obstacles. If you know how to write a contract it doesnt have to be threatening! Explain to the customer what you will and will not be responsible for and include the customer while making the contract. When you inlcude them it makes them feel like they are getting everything they want too, not just what the contractor is telling them they get. You should be willing to negotiate to some extent the terms of the contract.


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Was talking to a guy today and he was ok'd to do a city job....township offices etc. He gave them the standard SIMA contract and the councilmen gave it back to him and gave the job to the next highest bidder saying the contract was too confusing.

Ive never seen the SIMA contract. Anyone have one?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Contracts are to bind the party's to performing specified work and how to pay for the work that is preformed.

Snow and Ice are acts of nature, I am, in noway responsible for them occurring.
I do not believe your INS is going to cover it ether...

My point is ( I have a hat on ) your INS only covers you for the damages you do to any property while engaged in snow plowing. IE you hit a car, light pole, or someone...

My INS only covers the lot that I an working in at the present time.
I can be responsible for applying salt at the proper rate.
But not for what Mother nature may do after I leave the lot....


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## murray83 (Dec 3, 2005)

Any blizzard clause?


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Well and thats why I do the same as you and use them to spell out agreed uppon pricing structure, length of service agreement and the simple stuff.

Id be a bit more rigid with a commercial account but not a whole lot unless they wanted it to be, and my "contract" would still be professional in appearance and tone....but without all the Im not responsible, or no liability jazz.

Id still be very interested in taking a look at this standard SIMA issuse stock contract piece if anyones willing to share.


Im almost certain I could find one or two things in it Id disagree with.....heh


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

murray83 said:


> Any blizzard clause?


Whats that Murray? Santas Brother?



Seriously though. You mean like heavy snowfalls?

Yeah like now that you mention it theres nothing in Mr T's contract about over 5" or 6" whatever he uses as an increase da price trigger.


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## murray83 (Dec 3, 2005)

Bingo!,I was looking over it and noticed that he had nothing if a blizzard was to hit and threw his schedule out of wack affecting his commercial customers just a thought as your getting ideas.

Heck even thinking about it even include an ice storm...........


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## murray83 (Dec 3, 2005)

I pitty da fool............ 

Sorry...... you made me do it


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

man you guys are relentlessly antagonistic, whatever floats your boat i guess. all criticism accepted good or bad keep it coming. if anyones not aware im new to the plowing game, havent even popped my cherry yet 

so do you guys that have not yet stated that you dont use a contract use one. it seems like the majority doesnt like what i have in mine and if it wont do any good anyway why even have a contract. are you all recommending just using a service agreement?

P.S. i might be new to plowing but not to running a business. i use a very similar contract as this for my landscape customers with no complaints in the last 8 years, i just need to know what works and doesnt for this industry.

thanks again for all the comments


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

terrapro said:


> man you guys are relentlessly antagonistic, whatever floats your boat i guess. all criticism accepted good or bad keep it coming. if anyones not aware im new to the plowing game, havent even popped my cherry yet
> 
> so do you guys that have not yet stated that you dont use a contract use one. it seems like the majority doesnt like what i have in mine and if it wont do any good anyway why even have a contract. are you all recommending just using a service agreement?
> 
> ...


Take a look at the "Contract" thread in commercial. Follow Grandviews links.

Best contract Ive ever seen on here.


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## Rcgm (Dec 17, 2000)

NOPE I wouldn't sign a contract like that.Mine says I am not responsible for damage to streets if pot hole patch has been applied.I am not responsible for cracked concrete or curbs that are in bad shape and I am not responsible for slip and falls.But I am covered for all that in case someone decides to push the envelope I am covered.But if someone does have a contract that says I am not responsible for ANYTHING that is crap you shouldn't be in the business.

RCGM 
Brad


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## Rcgm (Dec 17, 2000)

terrapro said:


> man you guys are relentlessly antagonistic, whatever floats your boat i guess. all criticism accepted good or bad keep it coming. if anyones not aware im new to the plowing game, havent even popped my cherry yet
> 
> so do you guys that have not yet stated that you dont use a contract use one. it seems like the majority doesnt like what i have in mine and if it wont do any good anyway why even have a contract. are you all recommending just using a service agreement?
> 
> ...


Terrapro this is your first year plowing?You never plowed snow before?If not you are in for a great ride.Nothing like plowing I love ever minute of the first storm.3rd and 4th storm you know its work then LOL

RCGM
Brad


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Rcgm said:


> Terrapro this is your first year plowing?You never plowed snow before?If not you are in for a great ride.Nothing like plowing I love ever minute of the first storm.3rd and 4th storm you know its work then LOL
> 
> RCGM
> Brad


Yeah and with the snow we are supposed to get this year...His 4th push might be in december of 2007.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

LLM Ann Arbor said:


> Good god finally we see eye to eye on something.
> 
> I dont use contracts either and people love it.
> 
> ...


LARGE CONTRACTS ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF THE CONTRACTOR. If you do big malls, centers or target/sams etc you have to sign there contract and it puts all the liability on you and releases the building owner.
Also a LLc or incorp. will help you but if you have a big slip and fall the lawyers will get to you. If the truck is in your name and not the companys then they can get to you for being the truck owner. We used to do this because it saved us about 3-4% on bank loans being in my name. not no more!! Now you can set up a leasing company and stuff like that but then you need more liability ins. and etc etc etc.
Just my 2 cents


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Just one more reason im not interested in plowing for people like that.

Besides nearly having to do it for free after alls said and done from what I hear.


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## john boardman (Sep 25, 2006)

LLM Ann Arbor said:


> Also. Are there any laws regarding "Late Fees"
> 
> Yours seem excessive if the balance owed is low. Say someone only owes you 35 dollars. Do you still charge a 15 dollar fee if they pay 1 day after the due date?
> 
> ...


Credit card companies do but they charge more like 30 even if your a minute late capital one due by 3pm.  Credit Card Charges


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

john boardman said:


> Credit card companies do but they charge more like 30 even if your a minute late capital one due by 3pm.  Credit Card Charges


Yeah and 90% of the credit card companies are located in Delaware for a reason. My cards charge a $35 late fee.

This goes against the common grain as well (what else is new) but I dont "Plan" on ever charging late fees. Im not large enough to even consider it right now, and all my people pay in a comfortable time period as far as Im concerned, and if they dont, I give them a call, and get it straightened out.

Too many fees. To many demands, rules, regs, and threats going down in business today. Not just this one by any means.

I may get screwed sooner or later but darnit Im still convinced its not to late todo business together as gentleman, reasonable men and with a handshake.

Maybe Im naive.

But if I am thats a sad commentary.


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## Hunter9 (Jul 7, 2006)

LLM Ann Arbor said:


> I may get screwed sooner or later but darnit Im still convinced its not to late todo business together as gentleman, reasonable men and with a handshake.
> 
> Maybe Im naive.
> 
> But if I am thats a sad commentary.


I agree 100%, but you can only control one side of the "handshake" and too many out there do not operate their side of it as gentleman and too many times are unreasonable. But in this case you can usually cut bait and move on.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

*REVISED EDITION *
tell me what you guys think about this one
_____________________________________

TERRAPRO
SNOW REMOVAL CONTRACT
WINTER 2006-2007​Terms and agreements:

Terrapro agrees to remove snow by means of plow and shovel at customer and vendor agreed upon site
2 inches is the minimum accumulation of snow before removal of snow will occur unless otherwise decided by Terrapro
Service fee is based on a snow accumulation of 2-6 inches, every 3 inches afterward will be %50 of the service fee extra 
If extra services including but not limited to salting is agreed upon between vendor and customer it will be through verbal or written contract and extra services will be included in next bill
If large objects including but not limited to cars and other motorized equipment are in the area in need of snow removal the process of snow removal will be finished at earliest convenience to vendor when area is clear
Payment due will be net 30 days of date billed
There is a $15 late fee per every 15 days after due date of bill
Service date from________________________ to_________________________________.

Service fee________________________Contract date________________________

I____________________________ hereby agree to all terms and agreements herein.

Signature____________________________Signed date________________________

Vendor signature______________________________	Signed date_____________________________


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## LLM Ann Arbor (Sep 18, 2006)

Mine says payment due on receipt of invoice. 30 days is too generous.

Id tighten that up and drop the late fee myself. You aren't gonna make any money on it and it will only serve to make the customer feel threatened.

Even with your generous due date.


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## Tscape (Jan 19, 2004)

Snow removal should be changed to snow and ice management or control. You leave one speck of ice or snow and you have not lived up to your contract by that implication. You can only control or manage snow on the ground. Drifting happens. Gutters drip on sidewalks and re-freeze, etcetera. Too many variables.

I'd make it due on delivery, late after 2 weeks, charge $15 as a fee after 30 and add 2% of the balance then and every 30 days. Start collection after 90 days.

Looks good though, George.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

ok i changed it from snow removal to snow management. i have had very good luck with my due date and late fee with my landscape customers so i am going to keep it that way. i like due in 30 because sometimes people are hard up and need alittle time, call me stupid but i just like to give them a chance first. the late fee is for the customers who take advantage of my good nature. would it also be a good idea to slip something in about stopping service if payment isnt recieved by due date.....something like this

"If payment is late past due date service will be discontinued until payment in full is received"

or

"Terrapro reserves the right to discontinue service at any time for any reason"

what do you guys think of my 2-6 then 50% for every 3 inches afterward?


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## Runner (Jul 21, 2000)

There are some things on there that are just loose ends. Also, this statement doesn't seem to make sense.....
"2 inches is the minimum accumulation of snow before removal of snow will occur unless otherwise decided by Terrapro"
So,...what you're saying, is that you will not plow until or unless you get 2" of snow.... That is, unless, ...you decide to do it. In other words, you are saying "Plowing will not commence until a depth of 2 inches is reached,...that is,...unless I decide to do it anyway." See what I mean? It is a circlejerk of contract mumbo-jumbo, that doesn't really say anything. It is redundant. 
Technically, it should read 2" is the MAXIMUM accumulation _before_ removal will occur. (before being a key word) Minimum=as little as...Maximum= only up to this much. Regardless, it still doesn't make sense. 
Now, please don't take me wrong...I'm not meaning to be critical. I am just giving you some perspective from a readers point of view.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

lol no please be critical thats why i posted it here. pick it through


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