# What do you like/want/need in a shop?



## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Looking like it might be getting time to expand my shop, I need some additional storage. Looking to add on a pole building addition (shop now is a pole building)....... Trying to come up with some cool stuff I may want to do....

Any ideas of things you wish your shop had, or things that you have that you don't know how you lived without?


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

kegerator


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

snocrete;2105669 said:


> kegerator


Damn...first thing I thought of too


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

A 25 gal brew kettle and a 30gal fermenter.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Bossman 92;2105672 said:


> Damn...first thing I thought of too


Honestly I was just joking...Im really just a dirty white boy, that when it comes down to it, prefers canned domestic beer.

On a serious note: 2 top things that come to mind I would do, if building a new shop...."minimum" 18ft ceiling height & heated floor


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## johnnywaz (Oct 16, 2015)

CNC Mill, CNC Lathe, CNC Plasma table/plasma cutter, Press brake


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

A stage with a Brass pole mounted to it........

60X100 X 16, Wash bay, cold storage, warehouse pallet racks, welding area, 200amps of power, lift, H/C running water, toilet, ventilation, separate 20X40 work area with radiant heat.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Things I have on this shop that I should have done at last one.

Radiant Floor Heat - Best money spent on building
Washer & Dryer - rags, muddy/ nasty clothes - keeps my wife happy
On Demand Hot Water Heater (Great for Washing Trucks)
Floor Drains a plenty - Should have done a trench down the middle though
Extra man doors - keeps the overheads closed in the winter
Separate employee bathroom - keeps the office one clean
Urinals in bathrooms - keeps the toilets clean
14 ft wide overhead doors - if you hit them... you suck
Commercial ceiling fans - moves air in summer - pushes heat trapped up top down in winter
Soda Machine filled with beer - well does that need explaining?

Things I still am needing to change:

LED Lighting - I am in the process of loosing these stupid metal hilate bulbs on the exterior. Ballasts, starters, bulbs... F um - ordered the last of the bulbs today. 

Stairs to the lofts - I have lofts over the offices - should have built stairs up there a long time ago - ladder sucks 

More outlets - why I don't have one on every post... I don't know


Things that I cant change that I should have though of or done when building this shop:

Expansion joint between office concrete and shop concrete - every single little thing that gets dropped on the shop floor is heard in the offices... should have put and expansion joint between the two 

As said above, I should have ran a trench drain down the center of the overheads. The floor drains work, but not as good as a trench drain when washing trucks.

I should have heated the approach to the doors before we did the exterior concrete, but it was such a rush job before the temps dropped and I was burnt out from the summer work by that point, I said screw it. Next shop... right.



I am sure I will think of more things...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

BUFF;2105685 said:


> A stage with a Brass pole mounted to it........
> 
> 60X100 X 16, Wash bay, cold storage, warehouse pallet racks, welding area, 200amps of power, lift, H/C running water, toilet, ventilation, separate 20X40 work area with radiant heat.


Almost describes my shop perfect... minus the pole... maybe my priorities are screwed up hunh...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Subscribed.....not that I'll ever have the money.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

This is interesting because I am currently purchasing a piece of property and plan on moving my landscape yard and putting up a new shop. Here's a couple things I am planning on in the future, a car/truck hoist, new wire feed welder, steam cleaner and in floor radiant heat.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Philbilly2;2105692 said:


> Things I have on this shop that I should have done at last one.
> 
> Radiant Floor Heat - Best money spent on building
> Washer & Dryer - rags, muddy/ nasty clothes - keeps my wife happy
> ...


Building Stairs to our lofts was one of the best things we ever did.

Right now I have 55x66x14 foot to the trusses with 55x30 of it closed in with heat as a mechanic station - auto lift, work benches, and an office/break room with a separate bathroom. The center 25 feet has full height ceiling and there is 15 feet on either side with 7 foot ceilings with loft space overhead. Office is detached, 35x25.

Unfortunately, with the way the property is designed and the side of the building I want to build onto, without reconfiguring the property, re-engineering the roof, or building an entirely new shop around this one and tearing the old one down, I'm going to be limited to about a 10-11 foot ceiling. wanting to add on 20 or so feet so I have 75x66. I'm ok with the 10 foot ceilings though as the new portion I am intending only for cold storage. Will have concrete floors, overhead lighting, and minimal outlets, one overhead door at each end, thinking I'll do a sliding door from the cold side of my shop into there.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JimMarshall;2105712 said:


> thinking I'll do a sliding door from the cold side of my shop into there.


Funny you say that... I just cut a 6ft double door into my shop between cold and warm sides. My shop side houses all of the tools and what not, but my cold storage side is where the guys pull the trucks in to melt off and load material. They were always cutting threw the offices to get from one side to the other so they did not need to go outside.

I didn't mind it until they tramped through with muddy feet or bouncing tools off the drywall in the office. One day.. went to Menards, got a door, blasted a hole... that cured that issue.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Philbilly2;2105694 said:


> Almost describes my shop perfect... minus the pole... maybe my priorities are screwed up hunh...


We're all screwed up.........

But most of what I listed will be in my next building, one thing I didn't mention was a reloading room with a short overhead door (like a concession stand) so I can shoot off a bench oot of the weather and an archery range.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

First thing to consider is size, you never have enough room it seems.

Second, goes right along with no.1, for a pole type building, the width is what makes it (more) expensive. You can add way more sq. ft. cheaper by adding length.

Third, I just read this idea in the latest Farm Show magazine, if you can build so that you have a long wall with a southern exposure, buy a bunch of patio doors for the upper 1/2 of your wall, the sunlight will heat your shop 30 degrees on . if you put offices or other storage on this wall on the first level, then you would be able to use the patio doors to bring larger items in/out. Could even put a deck off the side and use that as roof over cold storage under.

The heated aprons are a great idea, if your doing the floor anyway.

I would like one stall to be drive through.

If you do a partial second level, above offices, etc, with stairs, build under stairs storage on wheels that will pull out. You can label the different units with what's in them.

Pallet racking to use that wasted vertical space for storage.

outlets, never enough

Just the tip of the iceberg....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Thought of a couple more things:

My air compressor is on the cold storage side - air lines are piped in trusses with drops through both sides of the shop with hose reels at both overheads and multiple reels in shop side. Great when you are using the sandblasting cabinet or working on a truck with air tools. You don't have to listen to that noisy [email protected]

CO2 detectors... they are rigged to a relay that kicks on the exhaust fans simple idea, but it has been nice a few times

3 phase power - though I don't have anything that runs on it right now... it is nice to know it is there waiting if I do need it.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

jonniesmooth;2105728 said:


> First thing to consider is size, you never have enough room it seems.
> .


That is the truth.

My old shop was 3000 sq ft. Seemed good. Almost doubled the size with this current building and I still look around and ask where the f was all this crap in the last building??? Even parking all of the trailers and extra trucks outside in the yard now where before a few of them were inside in the last shop. I don't get it... I guess with more space you seem to acquire more junk?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I like big power.

Wireless internet, large TV, dog house and a dog or two.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Paint booth.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Buswell Forest;2105861 said:


> Paint booth.


What do you do for a living?


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

BUFF;2105685 said:


> A stage with a Brass pole mounted to it........
> 
> 60X100 X 16, Wash bay, cold storage, warehouse pallet racks, welding area, 200amps of power, lift, H/C running water, toilet, ventilation, separate 20X40 work area with radiant heat.


You forgot a place to sleep when you don't feel like dealing with the warden...

For me, I'd just move right in...Thumbs Up


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Dogplow Dodge;2105930 said:


> You forgot a place to sleep when you don't feel like dealing with the warden...
> 
> For me, I'd just move right in...Thumbs Up


I learned long ago to slap her butt, say who's horny and she leaves me alone...... Been working for aboot 20yrs.Thumbs Up


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

BUFF;2105946 said:


> I learned long ago to slap her butt, say who's horny and she leaves me alone...... Been working for aboot 20yrs.Thumbs Up


That's what I do when I want to go fishing. Wake up about 5 am roll over and say fishing or sex?


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## UltraLwn&Lndscp (Oct 20, 2013)

BUFF;2105946 said:


> I learned long ago to slap her butt, say who's horny and she leaves me alone...... Been working for aboot 20yrs.Thumbs Up


This is a great one!

I don't what else to say about this thread. Lots of great Ideas. I am happy with my 1000ish square foot three bay detached garage for now. I bay is separated and heated. I rent a 40x16x16 unit to park a truck and trailer and keep a bunch of other stuff as well. Someday. Maybe in another state.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

What's a heated approach? Heating the concrete outside the door? Sounds like a waste of money to me???

We're does the water go in floor drains? Does it just run outside or have to get put into a tank and pumped? 

Is in floor radiant heat from a electric water heater? Or a gas boiler ?


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

I can't believe nobody has mentioned a lift. That would be the first thing I put in after the place was built. Then the air compressor, welder, kegerator, etc


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

1olddogtwo;2105805 said:


> I like big power.
> 
> Wireless internet, large TV, dog house and a dog or two.


There we go! Who wants to go to work without their best friends? That was mine and my operations managers dogs today on our office sofa.









On topic, not sure how you guys are heating your radiant floor heat but when we bought our shop, it came with a coal stove/furnace. It takes rice pellet coal, about a pallet every 2 weeks. Weve kept our roughly 6200 sq ft warehouse at 60 for about 700 a month. Also saving on the office utilities too.

No one talked about office needs. Now that we've spent good money on a phone sever, I can say 1000% that and a SIP line trunk and a quality digital phone server etc for telecommunications is a must have. I spend almost all my office hours on calls and it's changed my world.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

When I build again I'm using a couple different sources for heat, Geothermal, Solar, with pellet and electric for back up if needed. For power outages a PTO driven generator running off a tractor.


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## J&L (Jan 15, 2013)

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=144881


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

Mark Oomkes;2105696 said:


> Subscribed.....not that I'll ever have the money.


Ditto Mark. I'll only have a shop like that in my dreams.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Most has already been said, but here are a few additional thoughts...

If price were no object, a bridge crane. Near infinite maneuverability and no forklift or shop hoist getting in the way or having the load 1/2" to far to one side.

For those in cold climates with a lot of traffic, air curtains on the doors to the outside. Somewhat expensive, but they keep warm air in and cold air out when the doors are open in winds up to 25 mph or so. I use them on pass throughs between hangar bays in my biggest hangar building so when one of the bay doors opens the whole building doesn't get cold. Unfortunately, they don't make them big enough for my hangar doors (65' wide x 18' high when open)

I have 3 phase 208 in my hangar, and it is great, but you may have to move taps on some older motors for the lower voltage.

Lastly, good insulation. All of my hangar buildings have insulation to the 2009 IECC and last year when we had a cold snap of single digit highs for about a week, the unheated hangar bays never went below 45. This year the coldest they have been is 53 (again, unheated). In a 50x40 hangar bay which I kept for myself instead of renting, my biggest electric bill last year was $175 for a month (heat and lights), typically kept 55 at night and 65 during the day. Insulation isn't glamorous, but it will put $$ in your pocket every year.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

JimMarshall;2105866 said:


> What do you do for a living?


Logging primary, snow as diversification. But any good hobby or project usually requires paint..car, truck, plow, sleds, shop built things...etc.
Be nice to have a dedicated space to do quality paint.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

I second a 20x12 office with a wall of file cabinets and other such necessary things. 
I personally would double up on sound deadener insulation in the walls floor and ceiling. Peace and quiet is crucial to my mental stability when doing office trype things.
Heck, if it were possible, the office would be a separate building entirely with breezeways between it and both my home and garage.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Oh, and a "locker room" with shower, washer dryer, and closet full of clean work attire. Get dirty, then get clean before getting in the new truck or car....or going home for dinner.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

"I have 3 phase 208"
A delta T?

3 phase is usually 440/480V.


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## BRL1 (Sep 13, 2014)

Id like to see pictures of some of these shops. I think some of you are making up things.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

SnoFarmer;2106351 said:


> "I have 3 phase 208"
> A delta T?
> 
> 3 phase is usually 440/480V.


208V 4 wire Wye. 120 from each phase to neutral. It's very common in small/medium commercial buildings because of this.

It was new service for the whole airport, and Penn Power chose to put it in that way rather than 277/480 4 wire wye, which is what I would have expected.

The only problem with 208 is that if some motors that you need are not rated for 208, and don't have a different tap then you need a buck-boost transformer.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

ah, o.k.
....


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Exactly.

If you do the same thing with 480 phase to phase, then you have 277 from each phase to neutral, which is why 277 is a very common lighting voltage.

208 3 phase is common. When I bought a used duplex compressor, the shop was wired for 208 3 phase, so I didn'[t have to re-wire. Ditto for the Bridgeport mill I acquired, and the old Tree 2UVR I rebuilt.

The only problem has been on single phase motors nameplated at 240, rather than 200-240. They will generally run fine on 208 if they don't have too big a starting load. Technically motors are supposed to be able to make rated power at 90% of nameplate voltage, so for a 230V nameplated motor, that would be 207V.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

newhere;2106114 said:


> What's a heated approach? Heating the concrete outside the door? Sounds like a waste of money to me???
> 
> We're does the water go in floor drains? Does it just run outside or have to get put into a tank and pumped?
> 
> Is in floor radiant heat from a electric water heater? Or a gas boiler ?


Another term for heated approach is snow melt system. There is a sensor on the roof the the building that when snow accumulates in the sensor cup, it fires that boiler and melts the snow off the approach. It is a waste of money until you get a slip and fall claim... or you loose a key employee for a few weeks with broken ribs from grabbing the pavement on ice. But it is such a nice little thing to have.

My floor drains go to (2) 1000 gallon holding tanks with float alarms in the tanks. In Illinois, we have the choice of going with a triple basin oil separator or holding tanks. Since we are on a septic, the triple was not an option, so we have the two tanks. We don't put any oil down the drains, so when the tanks are full, we just pump them in the catch basins that go out to the back of the property to a french drain that is filled with 3" rock.

I have the luxury of natural gas at my property so my boilers run on natural gas. Costs me about $100 a month for the 6 months or so that the heat is running. That is keeping the shop side at 60 and the cold storage side at 50. I also have a natural gas modine heater acting as a form of an "air curtain" that has a thermostat right by the overhead door on the shop side so when trucks pull in, the cold air hits the thermostat and knocks the blast of cold air down. We also use this to quickly heat the shop if we need to work out there all day and want to work in tee shirts. Radiant floors take hours to climb the ambient air temps.



SnoFarmer;2106351 said:


> "I have 3 phase 208"
> A delta T?
> 
> 3 phase is usually 440/480V.


I have 3 phase 208v in my building. It just has a high leg every 3rd spot in the panel.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

The heated approach sounds like a good idea and I might do it in my new building but I will put it on a separate run so I can turn it off during cold months with no snow. 

Also what I might do at the new place is put some tie down anchors in the floor.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Philbilly2;2106428 said:


> I have the luxury of natural gas at my property so my boilers run on natural gas.


Natural gas would be nice. My buildings are electric only. In one of my buildings I have an electric boiler and would never want to do that again. I didn't have a choice since if supplies fan coils which need about 180F water. For in-floor, where water temps are 120 or so, a very attractive option is a hot water heat pump. For every BTU of electricity put in, it puts out about 3 BTU of heating.

They make heat pumps that are either ground source (geothermal) or air source, but the air source only works down to -25F or so.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Philbilly2;2106428 said:


> I have 3 phase 208v in my building. It just has a high leg every 3rd spot in the panel.


 240V in the US is split-phase .
but if we want to get technical,
lets tackle some misnomers about phase in this type of system. While this is sometimes incorrectly called Two-Phase, it is in fact a 3-wire, single-phase, mid-point neutral system (Sometimes called Split-Phase).

For 240V circuits, you'll use a double pole breaker that spans two slots on the same side . This means it will have a hot from each leg, and will use each leg equally.
240v circuits (as already noted). This usually uses two wires + ground, but may uses a third wire for a neutral lead. Typical uses are stoves, dryers, heaters, and water heaters. Loads should always be balanced unless a neutral lead is required

ps
A true Two-Phase system, would use 4 wires and the phases would be shifted 90°
3 Phase Power from the power utility company. This consists of 3 hot power legs or phases, a neutral which carries the return current for all three hot legs, and a safety ground.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SnoFarmer;2106436 said:


> 240V in the US is split-phase .
> but if we want to get technical,
> lets tackle some misnomers about phase in this type of system. While this is sometimes incorrectly called Two-Phase, it is in fact a 3-wire, single-phase, mid-point neutral system (Sometimes called Split-Phase).
> 
> ...


Sno... you lost me... I can typically keep up, but not today. I am not an electrician so I am lost. Are you saying I don't have three phase or it is not 208v?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I'm not ether, I just use to wire 440-480V 3 phase snow making systems and tramways.
At some rural ski areas they/we had to use a delta-tap to achieve this because they only had 2 phases.


You can have 280-240v but i doubt you have true 3 phase power.
you could but it would have cost a bit more.

how many wires are coming to the mast above your meter socket or breaker /service panel,are they marked with differant colors like black/red/blue or maybe brown /orange/yellow?
also ,there might also be a separate service for your single phase 120/240v


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I want to see pics of these shops too.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SnoFarmer;2106450 said:


> I'm not ether, I just use to wire 440-480V 3 phase snow making systems and tramways.
> At some rural ski areas they/we had to use a delta-tap to achieve this because they only had 2 phases.
> 
> You can have 280-240v but i doubt you have true 3 phase power.
> ...


Yeah, it cost more. My panel has 4 wires coming in with this red taped 3 orange stripes what my spakry referred to as the "high leg" said it was some odd number like 277 or something like that. He says that the broken strap on the 3rd space every time is the high leg and if I attach a 120v breaker, it will smoke what ever is attached to that if it is 120v. But he said it should run really well for a couple of seconds....


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Philbilly2;2106478 said:


> Yeah, it cost more. My panel has 4 wires coming in with this red taped 3 orange stripes what my spakry referred to as the "high leg" said it was some odd number like 277 or something like that. He says that the broken strap on the 3rd space every time is the high leg and if I attach a 120v breaker, it will smoke what ever is attached to that if it is 120v. But he said it should run really well for a couple of seconds....


Thumbs Up
3 legs and a ground
good deal, should have 2 if not 3 phase,
still would like to know if they brought in 3 legs in or used a delta-t
ether way you get the power.

newer construction I take it?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

BRL1;2106388 said:


> Id like to see pictures of some of these shops. I think some of you are making up things.





Mark Oomkes;2106464 said:


> I want to see pics of these shops too.


Here is mine. Nothing made up here.

Mine is 50x100x16ft to bottom of trusses FBI Building - (2) 14x14 overheads - 3000 sq ft shop side, 2000 sq ft cold side - Floor Heat on both sides - modine on shop side - pallet racks on cold side - offices are (1) 20x20 and (1) 25x20 with bathroom - employee bath is on cold side in shop area - washer dryer slop sink - on demand hot water threw boiler on cold side - floor drains everywhere - large work bench - welding table - lofts with no stairs - soda machine that is loaded with Bush Light - and already to small...

Shop Side:


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Cold Side:


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SnoFarmer;2106482 said:


> Thumbs Up
> 3 legs and a ground
> good deal, should have 2 if not 3 phase,
> still would like to know if they brought in 3 legs in or used a delta-t
> ...


Does the 3 cans (transformers) on the power pole mean anything for that?

Yeah, rater new - shell was started late in 2009. And I still am working on getting it the way that I want it...


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Philbilly2;2106493 said:


> Does the 3 cans (transformers) on the power pole mean anything for that?
> 
> ..


 Yes, yes they do, Thumbs Up

if you needed more poser. there would be a big one on the ground close by


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SnoFarmer;2106497 said:


> Yes, yes they do, Thumbs Up
> 
> if you needed more poser. there would be a big one on the ground close by


Good, thought I might have gotten screwed here for a second... you had me guessing... that is the problem when you know just enough about electric to be dangerous. I wanted bigger power here just in case I needed it someday. But if an electrician tells me something, I have to go with it as I just don't know enough about it. Black to Black ... White to White... Green To Green ... that is about what I got. Now if we want to get going on plumbing, pipefitting, or hydronic heating... that is where I can keep up. Thumbs Up


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

208 3 phase

I'll tell you a story about that.

Hurricane Sandy I was tasked with supplying 3 phase 208 power to IAC. They are a internet host provider. They had a 750kw generator up on the 5th floor unfortunately there 5000 gallon fuel cell was located in the underground parking garage. The water level was 5 feet in the 1st floor, needless to say their generator fuel tank was wiped out, it float up and flipped. The 750kw was design for emergency and backup power but was not capable of running the entire building such as elevators and so forth. I supplied them with a 1.5 megawatt generator. The unit itself is permanently mounted in a 40 foot connex box. This unit only provides 480 volt 3 phase electrical power. From there we had to place a transformer to break the power down into 208. As a add kicker, i still needed a 750kw as a back up to the 1.5. Needless to say this was a nightmare for electricians and I had literally thousands of feet of cable plus 24 service technicians on site for 4 months.

Was burning thru 10,000 gals a week it seemed.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Also, most of our temporary power distribution is in 208 voltage. It is a 5 wire, 3 hot, neutral and ground. The ground is primarily for the generator, and the generator is grounded


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

1olddogtwo;2106512 said:


> Also, most of our temporary power distribution is in 208 voltage. It is a 5 wire, 3 hot, neutral and ground. The ground is primarily for the generator, and the generator is grounded


You know the natural is a 2nd ground.
as all of your white wires termite at a buss in your box that is grounded.

I just got 2-hots and a ground- 110v-240V
100amp service.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;2106464 said:


> I want to see pics of these shops too.


Needs some paint and few other fixes but the location is great


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

BUFF;2106517 said:


> Needs some paint and few other fixes but the location is great


A woman I know who moved to CO in the summer just bought that place. She said she had enough $$ to buy some land, and sent me a picture of a burned out hut just like that. Very similar, if not identical. They spent the summer in a tent. Not sure what she's up to at this point, but I hope it's at least heated.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Philbilly2;2106487 said:


> Here is mine.:


Uh.... I'm stupid green with envy......


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Philbilly2;2106487 said:


> Here is mine. Nothing made up here.
> 
> Mine is 50x100x16ft to bottom of trusses FBI Building - (2) 14x14 overheads - 3000 sq ft shop side, 2000 sq ft cold side - Floor Heat on both sides - modine on shop side - pallet racks on cold side - offices are (1) 20x20 and (1) 25x20 with bathroom - employee bath is on cold side in shop area - washer dryer slop sink - on demand hot water threw boiler on cold side - floor drains everywhere - large work bench - welding table - lofts with no stairs - soda machine that is loaded with Bush Light - and already to small...
> 
> Shop Side:


Damn you for making me zoom in and the wall decorations.....lol


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

1olddogtwo;2106567 said:


> Damn you for making me zoom in and the wall decorations.....lol


LOL!!! There are plenty of them. Heaven forbid we ever get a girl working here... the fun will be over.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2;2106487 said:


> Here is mine. Nothing made up here.
> 
> Mine is 50x100x16ft to bottom of trusses FBI Building - (2) 14x14 overheads - 3000 sq ft shop side, 2000 sq ft cold side - Floor Heat on both sides - modine on shop side - pallet racks on cold side - offices are (1) 20x20 and (1) 25x20 with bathroom - employee bath is on cold side in shop area - washer dryer slop sink - on demand hot water threw boiler on cold side - floor drains everywhere - large work bench - welding table - lofts with no stairs - soda machine that is loaded with Bush Light - and already to small...
> 
> Shop Side:


Very nice...............I need a fire.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

I'm very grateful where we're at now but I just want my old shop back! My dream shop would be about 8k sqft. heated on about 2-3 acres, a few 12ft doors, maybe 1 or 2 being drive through, centered drains in each bay, drive on lift, my own tire machine, hot water, electric, small 15x15 office, crew room with bunks and shower, upper loft storage for things I'll never use again but don't dare throw out, lastly a cemented or asphalt lot.


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## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

Interesting read! I think some of you need to go back and reread your electrical books. LOL!


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

I'm wanting to post some photos but Photobucket is down......


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## hickslawns (Dec 18, 2004)

We have a 24x36 heated with our outdoor wood boiler. 30x50 for cold storage. Looking to add a third one to the property. Also have another property with a 30x40 used for cold storage although it does have a wood burner in it.

New one looks like it will be 40x48. Not enough, but all we can fit on the property. 14' trusses. 3 insulated 12'x12' overhead doors. We already upgraded our wood boiler to a larger one to accommodate the future building. It will have radiant floor heat and trough style drains. I plan on adding an office and most likely a loft along the back wall of the rest of the building. Office will likely be too small at 12x20, but I am running out of places to put deer heads in the house. If some of my deer heads end up in the shop office, I guess I will need AC to keep humidity down. Guess this means we will need a corner for reloading and building arrows. Probably need a place for skinning out deer and skinning/fleshing coyotes. lol 

One bay will have a lift. Probably only two hose reels between the 3 bays. Overhead air lines only makes sense. 
One thing I am on the fence about. . . and haven't seen any mentions. . . sprayed in foam insulation or not? 

I am also on the fence but leaning towards white metal ceilings rather than OSB. More money, but so much brighter, lighter, and cleaner looking.

Would love to set up a metal shop in one bay, but with brand new floors and such it makes much more sense to turn the old shop into the official welding/grinding/painting area. It is already dirty. Painting, grinding, and welding leave so much dust and crud all over the place. Why bring this into the new area? Old shop will also remain our main place to service mowers. All the mud and grass mess can stay there.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

LapeerLandscape;2106431 said:


> The heated approach sounds like a good idea and I might do it in my new building but I will put it on a separate run so I can turn it off during cold months with no snow.
> 
> Also what I might do at the new place is put some tie down anchors in the floor.


Tie down anchors for what purpose?


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Here's what I've got guys.

Lift? Check


Hard plumbed compressor lines? Check.



Heat? Check



Welder? Check.



Equipment and stuff everywhere because I'm desperately in need of more space? Check, check, and check.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

JimMarshall;2107480 said:


> Tie down anchors for what purpose?


I am always trying to bend something back into shape. So if I can chain it to the floor and either jack or lift with the forklift to bend it back.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

How many pound is your lift and is it enough.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Buswell Forest;2106257 said:


> Logging primary, snow as diversification. But any good hobby or project usually requires paint..car, truck, plow, sleds, shop built things...etc.
> Be nice to have a dedicated space to do quality paint.


I can't imagine ever doing enough painting to have it be worth it to have a dedicated paint booth.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

LapeerLandscape;2107485 said:


> How many pound is your lift and is it enough.


It is a 9 k lb and no. Would love to upgrade someday. Hate the 2 post too.


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## icebreaker (Aug 25, 2008)

JimMarshall;2107491 said:


> It is a 9 k lb and no. Would love to upgrade someday. Hate the 2 post too.


How do you like your jcb skid? How many hours on it?. Have you ever had any other brand.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

icebreaker;2107502 said:


> How do you like your jcb skid? How many hours on it?. Have you ever had any other brand.


It's got 6 hours on it lol. Took delivery 2 weeks ago. Love it other than the controls are taking some getting used to. Have had Deere skids previously ( and still do)


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

JimMarshall;2107491 said:


> It is a 9 k lb and no. Would love to upgrade someday. Hate the 2 post too.


Why you hate the 2 post lift? I was a few weeks away from getting a 12k two post for our shop.

I have a friend who's shop looks like your last 2 pics where you couldn't find you balls in that mess if you had a gun at your head. That comes back to you Jim. If your employees did it, it's because you allowed them to. If you did it, I'd call you a slob. Few of your palletracks have anything on them? No organization as to where things go or get parked. Need to fix that mess fist before putting any money into a bigger shop.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Maclawnco;2107519 said:


> Why you hate the 2 post lift? I was a few weeks away from getting a 12k two post for our shop.
> 
> I have a friend who's shop looks like your last 2 pics where you couldn't find you balls in that mess if you had a gun at your head. That comes back to you Jim. If your employees did it, it's because you allowed them to. If you did it, I'd call you a slob. Few of your palletracks have anything on them? No organization as to where things go or get parked. Need to fix that mess fist before putting any money into a bigger shop.


I think the main reason for not liking the 2 post is the posts, and the fact that I am a bigger guy. It's hard to put something on the lift and get out. I would much prefer an alignment style scissor lift. Local alignment shop has John bean lifts that are the **** in my opinion. Drive on lift that then has 2 separate air jacks that run tracks between the platforms for lifting the axles off the lift.

As far as disorganization, I know, and at the very least, I'm allowing it to happen. The 2 empty spots on the pallet racking are designated spots for snow fence during the summer months. The rest of the pallet racking is awesome, when you can get to it. As far as everything else, it's impossible to have a designated spot to park everything, because there isn't enough floor space for everything. It gets cleaned up and organized on rain days, etc.... Stuff gets all lined up all nice and neat, and then someone needs to "dig something out" from the front of the line, and it all goes to **** again. It's to **** right now because on Tuesday the guys had to dig out a generator from under the shelves in the back corner. Same with the pallet racking. It was an awesome investment, but to get to it with the tow motor to put anything on or off of it, you have to spend an hour or more moving 15 mowers and god knows what else out of the way to get to them. One of the things that this addition should do is give me enough space for everything to have a spot, and to be able to get to it all without having to move anything.

I'm working on making a number of improvements that needed to be made in the last generation of ownership here. We've been in this location since 91, and needed more space 8-10 years ago.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Philbilly2;2106487 said:


> Here is mine. Nothing made up here.
> 
> Mine is 50x100x16ft to bottom of trusses FBI Building - (2) 14x14 overheads - 3000 sq ft shop side, 2000 sq ft cold side - Floor Heat on both sides - modine on shop side - pallet racks on cold side - offices are (1) 20x20 and (1) 25x20 with bathroom - employee bath is on cold side in shop area - washer dryer slop sink - on demand hot water threw boiler on cold side - floor drains everywhere - large work bench - welding table - lofts with no stairs - soda machine that is loaded with Bush Light - and already to small...
> 
> Shop Side:


I was looking at pole barns (color) ideas online and I only saw one that looked similar to yours and I liked it. Do you remember the names of the colors, it looks like burnished slate on the bottom and buckskin on the top.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

LapeerLandscape;2107700 said:


> I was looking at pole barns (color) ideas online and I only saw one that looked similar to yours and I liked it. Do you remember the names of the colors, it looks like burnished slate on the bottom and buckskin on the top.


When it went up FBI said that they had never done this color combo. I want to say it was terricaca and some form of black, but I have to dig that file out to know for sure. It is up in the loft with my 2009 files. If you really want to know, I will run up there and pull the file and tell you the colors for sure.

When I added more man doors and the exhaust fan, I just used flat black trims and j channels and you can't really tell the difference. I have yet to find a can of rustolum that matched to top tanish greyish color.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JimMarshall;2107534 said:


> I think the main reason for not liking the 2 post is the posts, and the fact that I am a bigger guy. It's hard to put something on the lift and get out. I would much prefer an alignment style scissor lift. Local alignment shop has John bean lifts that are the **** in my opinion. Drive on lift that then has 2 separate air jacks that run tracks between the platforms for lifting the axles off the lift.
> 
> As far as disorganization, I know, and at the very least, I'm allowing it to happen. The 2 empty spots on the pallet racking are designated spots for snow fence during the summer months. The rest of the pallet racking is awesome, when you can get to it. As far as everything else, it's impossible to have a designated spot to park everything, because there isn't enough floor space for everything. It gets cleaned up and organized on rain days, etc.... Stuff gets all lined up all nice and neat, and then someone needs to "dig something out" from the front of the line, and it all goes to **** again. It's to **** right now because on Tuesday the guys had to dig out a generator from under the shelves in the back corner. Same with the pallet racking. It was an awesome investment, but to get to it with the tow motor to put anything on or off of it, you have to spend an hour or more moving 15 mowers and god knows what else out of the way to get to them. One of the things that this addition should do is give me enough space for everything to have a spot, and to be able to get to it all without having to move anything.
> 
> I'm working on making a number of improvements that needed to be made in the last generation of ownership here. We've been in this location since 91, and needed more space 8-10 years ago.


Have you ever looked into an Asymmetric Lift? That is what I had here before I took it down and you could open the truck doors to climb out. It sets the truck back a bit so the doors are not right at the posts.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Philbilly2;2108183 said:


> When it went up FBI said that they had never done this color combo. I want to say it was terricaca and some form of black, but I have to dig that file out to know for sure. It is up in the loft with my 2009 files. If you really want to know, I will run up there and pull the file and tell you the colors for sure.
> 
> When I added more man doors and the exhaust fan, I just used flat black trims and j channels and you can't really tell the difference. I have yet to find a can of rustolum that matched to top tanish greyish color.


No you dont have to go dig for it, thanks anyway. Each siding manufacture could use slightly different names for the colors. I really like it.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Philbilly2;2108184 said:


> Have you ever looked into an Asymmetric Lift? That is what I had here before I took it down and you could open the truck doors to climb out. It sets the truck back a bit so the doors are not right at the posts.


Why did you take yours down? No I have not, I've not really shopped around for anything. We got this lift on trade many years ago, before I was involved with the business, I didn't pick it out. I still think I would prefer the drive on lift whether a 4 post or a scissor style, just seems safer.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

hickslawns;2107452 said:


> Office will likely be too small at 12x20, but I am running out of places to put deer heads in the house. If some of my deer heads end up in the shop office,


I know the feeling....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JimMarshall;2108192 said:


> Why did you take yours down? No I have not, I've not really shopped around for anything. We got this lift on trade many years ago, before I was involved with the business, I didn't pick it out. I still think I would prefer the drive on lift whether a 4 post or a scissor style, just seems safer.


Well, used it quite a bit for the first few years, then over time, as we grew it got to the point that my time could be applied in a fashion that anything that required a lift to do the work was a waste of money and could send it down the road to my mechanic. I was able to do other things that were more profitable and I a got a warranty.

Although we still do anything that can be done on the ground, if it goes in the air to do it, down the road it goes.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Philbilly2;2108200 said:


> Well, used it quite a bit for the first few years, then over time, as we grew it got to the point that my time could be applied in a fashion that anything that required a lift to do the work was a waste of money and could send it down the road to my mechanic. I was able to do other things that were more profitable and I a got a warranty.
> 
> Although we still do anything that can be done on the ground, if it goes in the air to do it, down the road it goes.


Gotcha. Anything not under warranty we do in house. With how much there is to do, it Just makes more sense to us than hiring everything out.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JimMarshall;2108204 said:


> Gotcha. Anything not under warranty we do in house. With how much there is to do, it Just makes more sense to us than hiring everything out.


Yeah, I totally get it. For years, I did not send ANYTHING out. The mixture of farm kid and gear head gave me the "sh*t, I can fix that" attitude. My insurance agent and my accountant have put a halt on many of the things that I truly enjoyed in my life. Specifically my accountant. He very quickly has showed me many times how I am not correctly applying the profitability of my time to make for max profit. Although I fought it for a while as I LOVE working on my trucks, anymore it is just not profitable for my current situation.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Philbilly2;2108208 said:


> Yeah, I totally get it. For years, I did not send ANYTHING out. The mixture of farm kid and gear head gave me the "sh*t, I can fix that" attitude. My insurance agent and my accountant have put a halt on many of the things that I truly enjoyed in my life. Specifically my accountant. He very quickly has showed me many times how I am not correctly applying the profitability of my time to make for max profit. Although I fought it for a while as I LOVE working on my trucks, anymore it is just not profitable for my current situation.


Oh, I don't work on stuff myself. My time is much better spent generating revenue. I have an in house mechanic and a half. Lol


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

hickslawns;2107452 said:


> One thing I am on the fence about. . . and haven't seen any mentions. . . sprayed in foam insulation or not?
> 
> I am also on the fence but leaning towards white metal ceilings rather than OSB. More money, but so much brighter, lighter, and cleaner looking.


Check this thread out. I tried to get to the bottom of this earlier this year, but never found the info I needed.

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=165237

I am still on the fence about it too.

It appears to be a good idea when you look at the numbers by the installing contractor, but I want to see some real world numbers. I can't seem to find anyone with the real world experience to drop the 10K for my building.

In my case *IF* spraying by building were to cut my heating bill in half for the true 4 months that the heat is on, at $100 in heating costs per month for the 4 months, I am looking at 25 years to get the 10K back. Of course, if my building package did not come with any insulation, that 25 year number would close on its own in a huge way.

I just can't pull the trigger with numbers like that.


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## hickslawns (Dec 18, 2004)

Philbilly2;2108469 said:


> Check this thread out. I tried to get to the bottom of this earlier this year, but never found the info I needed.
> 
> http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=165237
> 
> ...


Thanks Philbilly. I am also a "Phil". Been called Philbilly before as well as a few others.

If we spray in or use rolls, I have seriously considered hiring it out. Neighbor had his garage done (and he is extra anal about things) for a couple hundred more than material costs. He was pleased with the work. He watches his pennies and said it was worth every penny to have them do it. I'd tend to agree if it is only a couple or few hundred bucks. Haven't priced the spray foam locally yet. I'd imagine the reduction in drafts would be the biggest benefit. If considering going this route on a new building, everyone I have talked to said to use house wrap under your metal siding. IF you ever have to replace a sheet, you don't want to chip away spray foam to get it off. Makes good sense and adds another wind blocker.

Some real nice shops guys. Having 3 different buildings makes it tough. Sure wish I had all the square footage of my 3 buildings in one structure. That would help me a ton. Then I would only be adding a lean to type structure for outside/cold storage.


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## yardsmith (Jan 3, 2000)

Can anyone post some pics of their setups? Reading is one thing, but to see it would help spur ideas for the rest of us; hoping to build a pole barn in the next few years myself


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

New Building Done in the Fall of 2014. The inside and floor is not done yet.

http://www.maxwellservicesllc.com/id72.html

http://www.maxwellservicesllc.com/id73.html


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Lots of sq footage! more than you ever assume you'll need.. can always space things out inside to use up the extra if you're concerned about wasting it!

I second a heated floor for heat if possible, 18' height, racking etc.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

yardsmith;2110993 said:


> Can anyone post some pics of their setups? Reading is one thing, but to see it would help spur ideas for the rest of us; hoping to build a pole barn in the next few years myself


I posted on page 3, Jim on page 4. Thumbs Up


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Three photos of my 3rd hangar building - A place to put my old Cessna 310 and also where I will be working on my equipment.

Building is 140' long by 62' deep. Two 65x62 bays, with a 10' space in between for office/restroom/equipment room/storage mezzanine.

First two photos show the door of a sister building (not mine) where I am temporarily stashing my dirt moving/snow pushing truck until mine is done or they need to put an airplane in it.

Third photo shows the interior of the one I am finishing. The "door" is to the right. The office is below the mezzanine and to the right, restroom with shower and mechanical room to the left. There will be full height partitions on the interior walls, except in the center area below, which is a pass through, and where the air curtain will go. There will be stairs to the mezzanine from one side, and a door to allow loads to be forked up to the mezzanine, which has a concrete floor and is rated for 100#/square foot.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Aerospace Eng;2111670 said:


> Three photos of my 3rd hangar building - A place to put my old Cessna 310 and also where I will be working on my equipment.
> 
> Building is 140' long by 62' deep. Two 65x62 bays, with a 10' space in between for office/restroom/equipment room/storage mezzanine.
> 
> ...


First off, nice building!

But...

I got a couple questions on those airplane hanger doors.

Kicked around the idea about putting one of those in at the farm to get a wider door.

How long does it take for them to go up and down?
How do they get treated by wind when in the up position?
How well do they seal when closed?
Anything else about them that I should know?


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

_How long does it take for them to go up and down?_

3 seconds or so per foot. So about a minute for 18'. The 12'x 42' doors on my tee hangars take about 40 seconds. Other manufacturers might be faster.

_How do they get treated by wind when in the up position?
_
They are rated to be operated and open in up to a 40 mph wind. It is one of the reasons there is so much bracing in the building. Not only do you lose the shear strength of the wall, but you add load. The building needs to be designed for them, rather than being put on as an afterthought.

How well do they seal when closed?

For my doors, very well. There are bulb type seals on the sides, a large bulb seal at the bottom that I stuffed some large pipe insulation into to help it hold its shape, and a seal at the joint. I'll shoot some more pictures.

They are much better than roll-up doors or sectional garage doors due to the lack of joints. The doors on this particular building are sheeted with 2" thick insulated metal panels, so about R-15 continuous. On my others I have 6" of fiberglass between the panels and the door structure, but I would go with insulated metal panels in the future.

Anything else about them that I should know?

You need extra headroom since the bi-folds don't go all the way up. About 4' to 5' above the door opening height for your eave.

Although these were built for a metal building, an older pole building on the airport has doors that attach to wooden side posts. They are 40' wide x 12' high when open. I'll shoot some pictures.

I like the bi-fold for snow country. The bottom of the door just moves up vertically. In the summer, the panels form a large overhang when open that helps keep rain from coming inside even when they are open.

Single hydraulic panel doors or vertically folding doors can't open if you get a bunch of snow outside, and you can't park that close. Bottom rolling doors get crap and ice in the tracks.

Gutters can be a problem if you want them, as there can't be a downspout where the door is. Most hangars do not have gutters.

If you have any other questions about the doors or buildings, I'll be happy to answer them.


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