# Dueling Batteries



## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

Hi Everyone :waving:

During the 24" storm we had around here a couple of weeks ago, the battery light was coming on when you held down the fish stick button after the blade was stopped in the raised position. The truck had been running for about 10 hours straight when this started to occur. The light didn't stay on, it just flashed momentarily. This led me to believe that the battery may be getting week. It is a 700-cca-factory battery rated for 6 years and is going on its fifth year at this point. I load tested it and it is running at peak performance, but I didn't like the dim lights and the slow performance. The voltmeter was constantly on a 14.8 charge. I know this is normal under these conditions when you have the plow, heater, wipers, radio, and all the other electrical equipment going, but I still got an uneasy feeling that all this loading is putting to much demand on the system, so my solution was to put in a second battery.

I got a new 1000cca battery from NAPA and made up some cables and hooked it all up. The truck had a second battery box, so location was not a problem luckily. (Although I had to move the plow isolation module because that is where we originally put it.) Anyway, I ran the second battery in series and was considering installing an isolation diode to separate the two and dedicate one for the plow and the other for the truck. The way it is set up now seems to be working fine, without any lights dimming or lagging recovery times, but I was wondering what the advantage would be to change the system to independent batteries.

Below is a pic of the setup.

Thanks for your input,

Bruce


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I sure hope you didn't run the batteries in series,the truck won't like that at all.

The batteries should be in parallel,or positive to positive,and negative to negative.

If the original battery is 5 years old,I would replace it too.Pairing a new battery with an old one will damage the new one as the old one fails.

Run the batteries together,do not isolate them.You need all the reserve possible.The two batteries will help the problem from re-occuring,but only for a bit longer.Once the second battery gets run down too,you will be in the same boat.

The only advantage to isolating the batteries,is if the plow battery were to get run down,it wouldn't kill the truck battery,and the truck will stay running.Not much good though if you can't use the plow.You would also need a proper isolator and wiring,which just adds $$$,and more things to go wrong.

You should look at maybe upgrading the alternator to help charge those batteries better.

Might want to check over the pump and motor too.A bad motor will draw excessive amperage.

After a long plow session,charge the battieries back up fully with a battery charger,not the truck.Charging them with the truck will only lead to alternator failure.

One last trick is too modify your plowing style.Operate the plow as little as possible.Don't lift it all the way to the top,or hold it there.Let the snow lift it as you come into a pile,lift it for a sec,just before you hit the pile,and it will ride up into the pile on it's own.Then just hit the lift for a sec,and the arm will come right up with no weight on it.Don't angle the blade with snow on it unless absolutly neccesary.


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## Big Nate's Plowing (Nov 26, 2000)

good luck with that exide battery, my last one only lived for 4 weeks, now I got a orbital xlr exide and it is already giving me slow cranks in the morning

~Nate~


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

Ooops! Yes I did run them parallel. I just missed typed it. Thanks for pointing it out Chris.

How will the older battery damage the new one? The only thing I can think of is that the performance would only be as good as the weakest battery. Upgrading the alternator is a good idea. The factory one is in there and it is only 100 amps. The pump is new along with the plow. I doubt it is the motor. Something I didn’t mention earlier is that we adjusted the quill to up the plow speed and the battery light stopped coming on. So I know that helped too. 

We operate the plowing style pretty much what you are describing also.

Thanks,

Bruce


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

Just 4 weeks Nate!! Boy I hope it doesn’t run in the family. There is an unconditional 2 year full replacement warranty on it and pro rated for 5 years. If it does go prematurely, what brand do you recommend?

Bruce


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I'm not sure of the exact science as to why a new battery will be taken out by the old one,but it does happen.We see it quite a bit as all of our trucks run dual batteries,and we see a lot of diesels in the shop with dual batts as well.Never had any luck replacing just one.

I think it due to the fact as the older battery gets sulphated,it becomes harder to charge,which makes the voltage regulator charge it harder.I think this overcharges the new battery,and damages it.Some older batteries are the opposite,and will not take a charge,or show fully charged,when they are not.This causes the second battery to not recieve enough of a charge,and it goes dead quickly.This causes deep cycling,which can also damage a standard automotive battery.

Either way,you should normally do both together,with the same size,style etc

I haven't had good luck with Exide either.We used to be an Exide dealer way way back,just got tired of all the failures.I have since switched to selling Interstate and only one failure due to a battrey getting upside down in the back of a truck,and they warrantied it.Interstate would be my recommendation.


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## RAZOR (Dec 19, 2001)

Would there be any benefit to switching to a deep cycle type battery for a plowtruck?

Razor


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Deep cycle batteries are meant to be run almost completly dead,and then recharged completly with a special charger.

Most plow trucks should not be running the batteries completly dead all the time,as it doesn't make sense.If you have a truck that just barely makes it through the storm,and ends up with a dead battery,then a deep cycle would last longer with all the recharging,but why would you want to do that.

Deep cycle batteries will also confuse most automotive voltage regulators,so they won't charge properly,and can even damage the battery or alternator.

A good setup,with dual batteries (reserve capacity is what you want),and a good strong alternator that can handle the charging duties,and it will be fine,no need for deep cycle batteries.


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

Thanks for the input Chris, much appreciated. What size alternator do you recommend?

Bruce


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## ZMC (Nov 21, 2002)

I use optima batteries on my dual set up, a custom 125 amp alternator and heavy duty battery cables.

I have had no problems with power at all.

Russ


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## porkhead1 (Jan 28, 2003)

Deep-cycle batteries are for low, slow amperage draws like an electric trolling motor or lights in a camper/trailer.........
Every time you operate your plow, you're drawing about the same amps as starting your truck.....about 175amps +........
So, install 2 new batteries & check with a local alt. shop for a hi-amp output alt. for your truck. Or, I'm sure that there will be enough responces to this post that you should get some web sites. Leece-Neville makes some good alt., but they're $$$$$$$$ like 100 amps+ at idle.......

Good luck.......


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

I did look at the alternators at Leece-Neville. Wow...are they pricey. The truck has a 100 amp alternator now, How much difference is a 125 amp unit going to give me? I know, I know 25 amps...ha ha! But in terms of price to performance, is 25 amps going to make a difference? Is 125 amps enough or should there be more? After I replace the weak battery with an identical new one, will the factory 100 amp alternator suffice?

Thanks,

Bruce


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

If you talk to Optima they recommend their deep cycle batteries (yellow top) batteries for plowing. I run the yellows in my trucks and never have a problem. All run the stock alternators. Never had a truck die or not restart.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

> _Originally posted by GeeMC _
> *I did look at the alternators at Leece-Neville. Wow...are they pricey. The truck has a 100 amp alternator now, How much difference is a 125 amp unit going to give me? I know, I know 25 amps...ha ha! But in terms of price to performance, is 25 amps going to make a difference? Is 125 amps enough or should there be more? After I replace the weak battery with an identical new one, will the factory 100 amp alternator suffice?
> 
> Thanks,
> ...


The Leece-Neville alternators can be pricey,but they have a lot of common ones in the $130.00-200.00 range,and a lot are brand new,not rebuilt.They may not be a direct bolt on though.

The 25 amp difference may not make enough of a difference to make it worthwhile.Especially if it's the same frame size alternator.The problem with small frame alternators is they require a lot of RPM to make the amperage,and that when they get hot they don't put out much amperage.They also get very hot trying to keep up.

Take yours off and have it bench tested,when hot and under max load,to see what it puts out.You be suprised how little it is sometimes.I'd say you'll see only 50 amps max,when really hot.Test a 125 amp unit too and see.A bigger alt will put out near the rated amperage even when hot.My Leece-Neville put out almost 200 amps on the test bench,not bad from a 140 amp rated alternator.

I'd replace the original battery,with the biggest you can get to match the other new one,and try it.You can also add another 8 gauge charge wire from the alt to battery to help it charge easier.It should be OK.If it still runs down on you then you may have to look at replacing the alt.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

> _Originally posted by CT18fireman _
> *If you talk to Optima they recommend their deep cycle batteries (yellow top) batteries for plowing. I run the yellows in my trucks and never have a problem. All run the stock alternators. Never had a truck die or not restart. *


The Optima Yellow top deep cycles do not have as strict charging requirements and have an internal resistance close to a standard battery,so they will work good in an automotive application if required.They just don't have the reserve capacity that some of the larger lead-acid batteries do.I think they may have a larger Group 31 size now that may be better in that regard.


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## fastjohnny (Nov 14, 2002)

Has anyone had any experience with a company called alterstart?

They sell a bunch on ebay, and advertise a 180 amp direct fit alternator for the chevy/gmc. Price was $129, and is a new unit.

One of our plow trucks it just like GeeMC's. Dual batteries, but only the 100 amp alternator. I had to jump him 2x the last time out. He has mismatched batteries. One is an optima, and the other is I dont know. 

My truck has the 124 A alternator, and does fine.

Chris, have you done any mods to fit the Leece-Neville alternator into the chevy trucks?

Thanks

John


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I have done a few,but mostly the older ones.The alternators are really deep,so when mounted to a typical pickup truck engine,they stick out way to far to get the belts to even come close to lining up.

We mounted the alternator to the frame and just ran two v-belts across to it.We used a heat shield to protect it from the manifold heat,and used solid motor mounts,so it wouldn't chuck the belt if the engine moves around on the rubber mounts.

Here are a few pics to illustrate the difference in size.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

From left to right.The Leece-Neville like I use on my truck,a stock older chevy alt,a newer style chevy truck alt.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

One more.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I just checked out the alterstart website.Doesn't look like bad stuff.I'd be concerned how long a high output unit in such a small case would last,but for 130.00 you can't go wrong,maybe worth a try.Here is a link to what I found.

180 amp GM alt


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## Big Nate's Plowing (Nov 26, 2000)

WWW.MOTORCITYREMAN.COM I got my 160 amp alternator from them, it puts out almost 100 amps @ idle because I changed the pully and we had it bench tested and @ 5000 alternator rpm's the unit burried the needle on the 175 amp gauge when it was loaded down. I ditched the dual alternator setup because it kept throwing belts whenever the motor reved over 3500 rpm and for a battery.... I am going to change to dual optimas. I went out to start my truck this morning and it cranked real slow  almost ready to take and put in a 8ds semi battery.... [evil voice] 1300 CCA BWA.... HAHAH HAHAH .......HAHAHA [/evil voice]

~Nate~

BTW I wish I would have known about the Leece-Neville alts before I made my purchase.... but it was snowing and it was avalible.


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by wyldman _
> *I'd replace the original battery,with the biggest you can get to match the other new one,and try it.You can also add another 8 gauge charge wire from the alt to battery to help it charge easier.It should be OK.If it still runs down on you then you may have to look at replacing the alt. *


This is very interesting point Chris. I was thinking along the same line, kind of, with regards to the issue of adding a separate charging line from the alternator to the second battery. My question is, do I keep the connection on the positive side from the 1st battery to the 2nd when doing so? I don't think I should and here is my theory.

If I remember correctly, and I am drawing from memory here on electronics 101, 102 or whatever courses it was, that this cross connection would still continue to cause sulfating just because of the direct connection between the two. Doesn't the sulfating process occur because of the different rate of amps that can be accepted or absorbed within a given amount of time?

Here is an example of the mapping and logic.

The current starts from the alternator and goes to new battery first, which is asking the alternator for the requested higher amps than the older battery. The current and amps then pass to the older battery, which is not asking for this higher amount of amps. The extra amperage that has not been used by the older battery starts to create white deposits on the cell walls of the newer battery because the physical degradation of the older battery won't accept any more amps and those extra amps that were created have to go somewhere. This may be the process of accelerated battery failure you were referring to earlier.

In other words, the older battery cannot accept the rate of charge, which is being called for by the newer battery, and because they are in parallel, the newer battery develops the sulfates and prematurely fails.

So, if this theory is even close to being correct, that means a separate power line from the alternator to the batteries is all that may be required to prevent the "sulfating" process and I can use 2 batteries with separate amp ratings and age.

And, with that being said and wired that way, the next question is weather or not a higher amp alternator is even necessary…Mmmmm! Does this make sense? Am I missing something here or will the charge be transferred between the batteries regardless of the independent connections from the alternator? Would I still need some type of isolator? I mean the cables do connect to the same terminal post on the alternator.

I know, to many questions.

Thanks again everyone for the input. I need to research this issue further…to be continued!

Bruce


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## fastjohnny (Nov 14, 2002)

Voltage is still going to equalize between the two batteries, V=IR. Due to the older battery not taking as high of charge due to higher internal resistance, the new battery will constantly be pulled down in voltage to equalize the charge. Result, shortened life of new battery. 

I think the best solution for GeeMC would be to go with two new batteries of equal size, and go with a higher amp alternator with a single heavy gauge charge lead to one of the batteries, prob the right side, as is stock set up. 

Another thing to consider on the gm trucks is the stock side mount battery clamps with two leads coming off the + side. They have a tendency to loosen up, causing increased resistance, thus decreased amps, and in some cases, increased heat, enough to cause melting of the plastic and even the lead in end of the lead. Solution, cut away all the plastic and remove the lead around the steel clamp. Use a new bolt and nut bolted into the battery, finger tight on the bolt, then gently tighten the nut down with an open end wrench against the terminal. 

I had this happen on my 97, and was having to tighten up the + lead nearly every time I shut the truck off after I had been out plowing.

By the way, the 180 Amp alternator I ordered from Alterstart for the other truck arrived tonight, hope to get it on soon, will post how it goes.


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## Bossplower (Feb 21, 2003)

My alternator went up on me 1 AM in the 28" snow 1997 GMC
6.5 L I replaced it with the same size that was on the truck .
The parts guy said GM had trouble with Alt. on 96-99 trucks .
He said they didn't charge at low idle speeds and the new ones 
were much better . Mine had a smaller pully on it . I was lucky the light flickerd on and off for an hour and than I made it home.

The first snow of the yr. my truck wouldn't start, thought it was the starter. Well it was the battery I found out that you should always replace both batteries at the same time,even if the one still has a little life in it. I took the rubber coating of the terminals
and thy were all corroded. I cleaned them up and have two new batteries in my truck and it starts great.


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## SnowLane (Jan 22, 2003)

Plow in 4 wheel low and you will never have a problem with charging again since the RPM's will be double that of plowing in 4 wheel high. Plowing in low will also help the transmission.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Like fastjohnny said,the voltage will equalize between the two batteries,so you only need a charging line to one battery.

I will disagree with what he said regarding removing the factory side terminal bolt,and using a regular bolt.I have see a lot of guys do this,and they end up tearing the threads out of the battery,or breaking the internal connection to the plates.You also loose the sealing ability and it will corrode.If the terminal is clean and tight,it will be fine.

When choosing a battery,get dual terminal batteries.Then you can use the side terminals on the first battery to connect to the truck.The top terminals can be used to connect both batteries together,and the side terminals on the second battery can be used for any accesory power you may need,like plow motor wires.

DO NOT remove your positive connection between the two batteries.This would cause any draw from the second battery to be drawn back through the second charging wire you suggested using,and will fry it,unless you use a big battery cable,which is silly.Use min 4 gauge to connect both batteries,2,1,or 0 gauge would be better if possible.Then just add a another charge wire,8 gauge,to the first battery.It,along with the factory charge wire will be sufficient.It also wouldn't hurt to solder in a 12 GA fusible link in the new charge line,at the battery,just in case or a short.

SnowLane - plowing in 4 low is just not neccesary in most conditions,and can be a lot harder on the truck if not used correctly.Do a search for a thread on using 4WD low,and you will see most people don't need it,it's just to slow.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

If your going to make cables,get some welding cable (more flexible and carries current better),and some good terminals.Most heavy truck shops sell really nice lead battery terminals,and will usually pre-make the cable for you if you know the exact length.There is no comparison to the cheap battery terminals they sell at the parts houses.


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## fastjohnny (Nov 14, 2002)

I should have added on my earlier post about battery terminal modification, I do give all terminals a good coating of dielectric grease to prevent corrosion. 

As to stripping out the battery terminals, that is why I suggest only finger tight on the bolt, then back the nut on the bolt down to tighten the terminal.

Lots of good advise from all. 

John


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## Big Todd (Dec 8, 2001)

Wow, lots of good replys to this one. I wanted to throw my two cents in real quick since I have extensive experience selling batteries and also since I went through a simalar ordeal at the begining of the season.

First of all, I've found that no matter what brand of battery, you will always find some guy who "had one of those and it blew up the second day I had it..." Ok, a small exageration, but it seems that you get a bad egg in the bunch once in a while no matter what brand or make. The batteries that AutoZone sells are good (same manufacturer as Die-Hards), Interstates are good, Exides are good (although NAPA switched from Exide to Decca recently). I digress, as long as you pick one with a decent warenty (2 years free replacement minimum) and keep your receipt, you'll be in good shape.

Anyway, I put two batteries in my '99 chevy at the begining of the season. 35/78 series dual terminal 900 cca Exides. Wired up as described above. My alternator gave up the ghost about the second time out because of a different problem. I asked around and found a guy in town who rebuilds them. For $100 (because he's a friend of a friend... LOL) he rebuilt it and boosted the output to 180 amps. (about 110 at idle with a smaller dia. pulley). I am very pleased with the performance this season. I have a Western plow on the front and a Snowman on the back, and with everything on (strobe, 2-100w rear spots, stereo system, defroster, CB, cell phone charger...) the volt gauge still drops when you work the plows, but even at idle, it snaps right back to 13.5-14 in a flash.

Anyway GeeMC, you are on the right track, just make sure you have two batteries of the same cca and both in good condition and make sure your alternator is in good shape.


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## Sno (Jan 12, 2002)

I learned something I thought I knew already.. LOL


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## nben (Jan 22, 2003)

We've been running Exides for years. Recently have tried the Orbitals and have great success with them. No more leaking caps and rusty trays!


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by fastjohnny _
> *Another thing to consider on the gm trucks is the stock side mount battery clamps with two leads coming off the + side. They have a tendency to loosen up, causing increased resistance, thus decreased amps, and in some cases, increased heat, enough to cause melting of the plastic and even the lead in end of the lead. Solution, cut away all the plastic and remove the lead around the steel clamp. Use a new bolt and nut bolted into the battery, finger tight on the bolt, then gently tighten the nut down with an open end wrench against the terminal. *


Fastjohnny, I put terminal extenders on the side terminals of the battery. I can't remember if they came with the plow kit from Fisher or we had them laying around in the shop, but they seem to work Ok so far. The extenders allowed me to make the plow connections between the battery and the extender and the factory cables at the end of the extenders. I would rather of had the factory cables against the battery, but these extenders didn't allow it to be connected that way. Caution had to be used when connecting to the end because the increased deflection makes it is easier to break off at the battery, but it is still pretty strong.

The 2nd set of terminals at the top make it a snap to connect between the 2 batteries also. This prevented the side terminal from getting all junked up with to many connections in the same location. A picture is worth a thousand words, here is a closer look.

Bruce


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Very nice installation.Looks good.


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Bossplower _
> *My alternator went up on me 1 AM in the 28" snow 1997 GMC
> 6.5 L I replaced it with the same size that was on the truck .
> The parts guy said GM had trouble with Alt. on 96-99 trucks. *


Bossplower, Did the parts guy say what kind of trouble that occurred with these alternators? Since our truck was new, it has always gone through belts about every 10,000 miles. I would keep bringing it back to the dealer when it was under warranty but they would just put a new one on. They never actually diagnosed the problem or they knew what the problem was and never said anything to me. I probably should have continued to fight this problem under the lemon law, but I didn't.

A new belt worked fine for a couple of thousand miles, but after that it would start chirping, not bad like a squeal, just the chirping especially if it was cold out. In the summer I hardly heard it. This last time we changed the belt we got out the old automotive stethoscope and started probing the water pump, alternator, power steering pump, etc. and found a noisy bearing on tensioner pulley. We replaced the pulley only to find that the bearing noise was still there, so we replaced the whole tensioner. That took care of the problem of the chirping this time, but I was wondering if the alternator had something to do with this failure?

The idler pulley has a burnt color on it and is leading me to believe it is slipping. I'm not sure weather this burnishing is coming from the alternator or it came from the failed tensioner, so it hard to diagnose now. I also have a 99 Jimmy and that idler pulley is clean looking, no burnishing at all. I know they are different years, but the set up looks the same.

As always, input appreciated,

Bruce


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I think the problems were mostly related to rear bearing failures,and bad regulator which would trip the alt light,when the alt was still charging.

The idler pulley may end up looking like that if the tensioner was bad.They don't slip,as it doesn't really take anything to turn them,but when the tensioner fails,it leans the pulley outwards sometimes.This causes excessive wear on the pulley,and will destroy belts,causing belt noise,and sometimes the belt will come off.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

GeeMC,

Nice work with the wiring for the second battery. 

My advice is to go out and get another matching battery for your other side. The GM green eye batteries are junk. Cant believe you got this long out of one before they puke their guts out all over the place. My Dad had problems with his factory ones and GM kept replacing them under warranty. After his warranty expired, he switched to Wall-Mart (Exide, I believe. 2 year replacement) and everythings been fine! Thats what I have in mine, Wall Mart's. Nice to know if I have a prob, they're open 24hours and with a 2 year free replacement, you cant go wrong.

Bossplower,

Be cautious about a new alternator with a different sized pully on a 6.5L Diesel! They use the alt for the tach, and changing its size will lead to problems. My Dad has a heavily modded 6.5L and went to GM for a new one and was told to re-use his old pully, as it is VERY important not to change its size!


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by wyldman _
> *DO NOT remove your positive connection between the two batteries.This would cause any draw from the second battery to be drawn back through the second charging wire you suggested using,and will fry it,unless you use a big battery cable,which is silly.Use min 4 gauge to connect both batteries,2,1,or 0 gauge would be better if possible.Then just add a another charge wire,8 gauge,to the first battery.It,along with the factory charge wire will be sufficient.It also wouldn't hurt to solder in a 12 GA fusible link in the new charge line,at the battery,just in case or a short.
> *


Thanks again for your suggestions Chris. To bad I didn't think of using 4 gauge welding wire when I first did this. That's a great idea. I just used 8 gauge and I kept the distance as short as possible by running it along the top of the radiator shroud. I also put the cables inside some Polyloom to keep the wires from damage and used heat shrink where it connects to the terminals. I am going to pick up another identical battery today for the other side. I will change the terminals on the second battery to the top mount style which will shorten the wires another foot or so. Not sure if I will gain anything from another foot, but it won't hurt. I think they are about 7' long now.

Thanks,

Bruce


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## Big Todd (Dec 8, 2001)

General Motors CS style alternators (the type they've been using since the late 80's) had an inherent problem in that the airflow through them was poor and would cause either the bearings to burn out and totally sieze, or the electronics inside (regulator, diode, etc.) would fail due to the heat. Most aftermarket manufacturers or re-manufacturers will put a better style bearing in them. I know AutoZone takes a lot of jabs, but their "Gold" series new alternators that they sell are acctually re-designed to address that specific problem. They are the most dependable after-market alternators I have seen and IMO, worth the extra cash


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TLS _
> *Cant believe you got this long out of one before they puke their guts out all over the place. *


Hi TLS,

I don't know why the battery has lasted this long. You are not the only one to tell me this either. One thing that might have something to do with it lasting is this truck has all highway miles on it, about 70,000 now. It was just used to go back and forth to work when I had a real job. The battery never really got taxed and was always fully charged. The only heavy-duty work the truck got was pulling a boat in the summer. That's why I bought it in the first place, besides hauling lumber.

One option to find out how long the factory battery will last is, we are going to pick up another truck (97-99 Chevy or GMC 2500) during the summer so we'll put the used battery in that as a second battery and let them both die together.

Thanks for the tips,

Bruce


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

The factory Delco batteries are excellent batteries,and will last 5,6 even 7 years or more in a good truck.When the case sides start to bulge,it's time to replace.We have seen very few failures on these batteries,until they have reached the useful lifespan.

The replacement Delco's don't seem to last as long,I think they are made by a different manufacturer.


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

Hi Chris,

About 5 years ago I was at a trade show in Cleveland Ohio and on the last day we took a tour of the Delphi plant in Warren. This plant makes electrical components for all the GM vehicles. The plant is enormous and broken up in 4 divisions. They had an extrusion section that makes all of the dash components, a division for wire drawing where they make about 100,000 lbs of wire a day, (that’s a lot of wire!), and a wire jacketing department. I don’t remember what the other divisions were, but I do remember asking the quality control engineer where the batteries were made. He told me that Delphi and Delco don’t make batteries at all any more, and haven’t for quite a while. He told me there are only two major battery producers in the country. I don’t know if there is still only two now but I just thought that was interesting.

Bruce


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

Hi Guys, 


Well I put the new second battery in last night. It is identical to the first one. I was really disappointed when I operated the plow though. The dash and headlights are dimming worse than just having the one factory battery and the voltmeter is all over the place again. I hope this is not the normal performance I can expect from these batteries. I asked the parts guy if these were fully charged and he told me I didn’t have to do anything to it and just put it in. He said any charge that has been lost from sitting around would be recouped fairly quickly from the alternator, but I am going to put the charger on it for the day anyway. Is this why some of you don’t like these batteries or is it just because they don’t last?

Thanks,

Bruce


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I would charge the batteries up fully,and test everything to make sure it's working correctly.

The voltmeter and lights will still dim some when the plow is operated,as they draw so much.The only way to stop it is to completly isolate the two (plow,and truck),but it's not worth it,as then you split the batterys reserve capacity.

Check both new batteries individually,maybe you got a bad one ? Also check your grounds.Adding a second ground wire from the additional battery to the engine block,and\or frame will help some too.

If the batteries are low,never let the alternator do the recharging,as it can be damaged.I'm really suprised the parts guy told you this as it's incorrect.Next time tell him to open up a rebuilt alt,and read the installation instructions.It is the number one cause of alt failure.


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## porkhead1 (Jan 28, 2003)

Let your batteries charge up for a little while by just driving around or with a charger. I never really have believed the counter-guy that "the battery is fully charged" when you buy them. Also, make sure all you connections are good & tight & clean. I was introdued to Electrical Joint Compound ( Ulnox) a couple of years ago.....it looks like gray toothpaste & should be available at any Electrical Supply Store. Coat your metal connectors with it prior to tightening your connections. It pretty much makes the connection water-tight & crossion-proof. You can have all the electrical power you need, but it will all go to h-ll if you have a bad connection. 

Good luck.....


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## GeeMC (Feb 6, 2003)

Thanks again Guy’s for the info. I’m going to double check everything out this weekend and make sure it is correct. I was looking through all my documentation from when I bought this truck and I can’t find the factory alternator rating. I was wondering if I can obtain that info through the vin and if there was some web site that could tell me. Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks,

Bruce


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## Big Todd (Dec 8, 2001)

Batteries are shipped from the factory fully charged and most of them (unless they are an off size, will only sit on the parts store shelf for a couple of weeks. And if they are stored properly, they will retain their charge for a suprisingly long time. If you are suspicious, however - wyldman - any parts guy that is worth anything will gladly test it for you on the spot. (12.6 volts and up is considered fully charged.

As far as I knew, there are 3 factories in the U.S. that manufacture batteries.

GeeMC, your alternator is most likely rated 100 to 105 amps from the factory. There may or may not be a 105 stamped on the alternetor casing near the wide mounting tab. Also, the 105 amp alternators are about 5.5" or 6" in diameter, and the 120's are much larger. Go to your local parts store and ask them to bring both of them up, you'll see the differance right away. 

As far as your lights dimming and the gauge dropping, you are going to still get that even with two batteries, but notice how much faster the system recovers.


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