# Switching to older trucks



## KLC99

Have any of you with a fleet of 3-5 or more gone this route.

We're setting up 1 or 2 mid eighties dodges, a late seventies ford and a 79 gmc this year with the idea that maintenance and repair expenses are lower vs 5-10 year old trucks. No more brand new plows either - we've had better luck with spares than new stuff over the years (sec 179 deduction notwithstanding).

Trucks and plows get cheap, clean paint jobs and don't leak anything.
Does this make sense to you guys?


----------



## xtreem3d

It does to me. I couldn't justify 5 or 6 20,000.00 trucks and 6 30,000.00 skid loaders for snow.


----------



## Nascar24

*Old vs New*

I have always purchased New or Very new trucks over the years, when I say very new, under 3000 miles, never purchased a new plow.

I would love to own another brand new truck but after walking a Ford, Dodge and Chevy lot over the summer , its not going to happen. Why some may ask, New Diesels x-cab or 4dr cabs are stickering in the high $50K - high $60K ranges, even with $10K- $15K incentives I can't justify the cost.

I decided t keep my 12 year old truck I purchased used two years ago with 47,000 miles. Its a typical Dodge with a CTD and 75,000 miles now, I purchased the truck from the original owner who never plowed and only used the truck for towing a small 5th wheel RV for the first two years of its life. It was well preserved, heated garage, no salt , never worked, just a toy . I say it is a typical Dodge CTD , it needed a Injection pump, lift pump, turbo, throttle positioning sensor, front wheel bearings and yes a transmission all in the past year. The truck also required regular maint like set of tires, batteries, brakes, and u joints , since the past owner sold the truck just before it needed all of it . To date I have a little over $21,000 in this truck including the purchase price. The plow came off my last truck which I purchased hardley used for $1600 three years ago. All in all I have about 1/3 of an investment in my truck that a new one would require and believe with all the updates it should go another 150, 000 miles without much more than tires and maybe front end parts.

Some may say I was crazy, some may say I did the right thing, I think it comes down to getting the right truck to begin with.

There are a few snow removal contractors in my area who buy older trucks that never plowed, put plows on them, transport them to private lots and leave them, their operators just go there when a storm hits and make money. Not sure how their insurance works but I never see plates on these trucks,, must be a significant cost savings in registrations and individual vehicle policies? They have a truck that tows a trailer with a large fuel tank mounted to it that comes around and tops of the trucks throughout the winter. I have also seen them deliver replacement trucks when they break. These contractors have been doing business this way for years, so they must be making really good money doing this . The company also buys old plow blades and puts their business name and phone numbers on them and places them all over the city, on lawns of busy streets . Cleaver way to advertise !


----------



## northernsweeper

In this business, its different for everybody. You just gotta do what works for you.


----------



## JustJeff

Northernsweeper is correct. There is no "right answer" for all individuals. I prefer new equipment for reliability, fewer maintenance costs, and let's be honest, image. I think the way your equipment looks does say something about your company. And there are good, quality used vehicles out there that can be had for significantly less, which is okay too, but I'd never put my company name on some rusted out piece of crap.


----------



## Banksy

You can take a 20-30 year old truck and make it worthy of your company name. Spend $40k+ for a new truck or get a 25 year old truck for a few grand and put a few more into it to make it respectable. That $6k truck could pay for itself within a few good storms. Running older stuff makes a lot of sense and you can fix a lot of stuff right on site with a basic Craftsman tool set. I will say it's easier to spend many hours in a nice comfy newer truck than in an old tank.


----------



## gallihersnow

Harleyjeff;1860010 said:


> Northernsweeper is correct. There is no "right answer" for all individuals. I prefer new equipment for reliability, fewer maintenance costs, and let's be honest, image. I think the way your equipment looks does say something about your company. And there are good, quality used vehicles out there that can be had for significantly less, which is okay too, but I'd never put my company name on some rusted out piece of crap.


Not to mention it's more enjoyable to drive a new truck, at least for me it is.


----------



## jimbo64

KLC99;1859970 said:


> Have any of you with a fleet of 3-5 or more gone this route.
> 
> We're setting up 1 or 2 mid eighties dodges, a late seventies ford and a 79 gmc this year with the idea that maintenance and repair expenses are lower vs 5-10 year old trucks. No more brand new plows either - we've had better luck with spares than new stuff over the years (sec 179 deduction notwithstanding).
> 
> Trucks and plows get cheap, clean paint jobs and don't leak anything.
> Does this make sense to you guys?


Finding 70's and 80's trucks that aren't high mileage and don't have rusted out frames and bodies where I am are very hard to find. I personally would love brand new but newer works best for me.


----------



## fastxcr800

I only buy older trucks for plowing. No sense spending big bucks for a truck to ruin it plowing snow. The trucks I buy, are ones that I either know the owner or who serviced them personally. If your mechanically inclined older trucks in decent shape is the way to go.


----------



## Gman1200hd

I have to say older trucks are the way to go cheaper parts, insurance easy to fix and for not a lot of money you can make older trucks look very sharp so image is not a problem and may even make you stand out of the crowd.and comfort wise you can add newer seat etc fairly easy. Just my two cents.


----------



## Brian Young

I was kicking this idea around this week after my tranny melt down in our 06. Not that older trucks won't fail but I bet if I needed to replace a tranny in a 80's Chevy, it won't be around 5-6K! I also looked around at new trucks this past weekend and like someone said, high 30's -low 40's for a truck to plow 10-15 dollar driveways...? The more the govt gets involved to appease the tree huggers and global warming freaks the worse and more expensive these trucks are going to be to repair. You could probably buy an older Chevy 1 ton, do a ground up restoration and have a brand new truck for 1/2 if not 1/3 of the price of a new one. I know a guy who owns a construction company and about 5-6 years ago he had his chevy dump sent to Buffalo for a ground up restoration, he said it cost him just over 16k but the truck was brand new inside and out. The whole truck was gutted, truck and frame were sand blasted,re-painted, engine, tranny all rebuilt. He said they replaced all the joints, bearings, suspension parts etc. It looked like a truck that was stored in a showroom after it came off the assembly line.


----------



## Jakedaawg

I have thought often about going to a rust free area and buying a couple old 1 tons and rebuilding. It would probably take a couple years to et them done but I wonder if they wouldn't make great plow trucks. Solid front axles, real geared transfer cases. Trannys that dont last as long but are less expensive to rebuild. It certainly wouldn't be as comfortable but they also wouldn't have the EPA crap everywhere.

For example, I couldn't get gas to go in my '10 2500 hd last year because of some stupid gas tank vent solenoid.

I think if I stumble on the right deal I may give it a try someday.


----------



## Buswell Forest

I have owned and plowed with old trucks, and with new trucks. I prefer the new ones. About everyone I know hears what my payments are, and nearly faints. Me, I am willing to pay the price for the ability, comfort, looks, and reliability. Better a known fixed cost that can be planned for than a surprise breakdown and all that goes with it- like lost wages.


----------



## Citytow

KLC99;1859970 said:


> Have any of you with a fleet of 3-5 or more gone this route.
> 
> We're setting up 1 or 2 mid eighties dodges, a late seventies ford and a 79 gmc this year with the idea that maintenance and repair expenses are lower vs 5-10 year old trucks. No more brand new plows either - we've had better luck with spares than new stuff over the years (sec 179 deduction notwithstanding).
> 
> Trucks and plows get cheap, clean paint jobs and don't leak anything.
> Does this make sense to you guys?


no notes ? all profit . 
but personally i like to ride in a warm comfy lariat vs. a bumpy carbon monoxide cab filled dinosaur .LOL


----------



## 90plow

I think I depends on how much your making and what the trucks do in the off season. My two trucks 95 and 06 sit except for plowing so to go buy a new truck does not pay. However if I needed them for lawn maintenance etc I'd try to keep newer trucks. Also if your doing 200-300k a year in snow why buy old junk if you can justify newer stuff. 
I don't mind wrenching but it does get old when it's 0 outside.


----------



## rjigto4oje

Just my 2 cents look at the purple dodge project and look at my project another dodge ram project a few thousand can buy a lots of parts new or used ones if i were to replace my 2 trucks 80 to 100 grand just my thoughts


----------



## BUFF

There's a few outfits in my area that have several mid '70s-'80s trucks that they park at the lots they're plowing. They're not pretty in any way but they do the job, most are running old Meyer or Western plows with a few Northman's too. As was pointed out cheap operating and repair cost on all levels. 
My stuff could be considered older, '97 F-350 and '87 Chevy K-5. My F-350 had 29k on it when I bought it 7yrs ago, no rust and a 8.5 Meyer. I did put a Boss 8.2 DXT w/Wings on it last season, other than that it's been basic maintenance and tires. The K-5 had 85K on it rust under drivers side carpet with a blown trans, weak motor, and 7.5 Meyer. Bought sheet metal from LMC Truck to replaced the floor pan and also put a rubber mat in to replace carpet. Had the 700r rebuilt (built for plowing) w/3yr 36k warranty for $1,100.00, have a 350SB GM Crate motor on its way w/3yr 36k warranty for $1500.00. I'll end up having less than $4500.00 into the K-5 and it will plow as well as a newer truck with the similar equipment. 
I also have a '08 F-350 CC but only use that for towing, I can't see subjecting a higher valued truck to plowing


----------



## wahlturfcare

i have used newer and older trucks and prefer the older ones for plowing. Cheaper to repair, last longer, etc..with older ones, you have true lockouts that hold up instead of elec. actuators that constantly give out. I do also have a 77 w400 that will actually push snow better than my '00 and both my 3='93 1 tons.


----------



## bhmjwp

I vote older-but for me that is 92 to 99' GMC or chevy. I sold off my 2005 and my 2006 about 4 yrs ago. Maintenance and repair run about 50% less. I run 4 with 2 back ups. Every fall I take them in, trusted mechanic, and he does a 60 point inspection. Only problem in last 5 yrs was a bad starter day of the storm.

Just go to your normal parts site and price the difference in starters, alternators, exhaust,brakes,ect,ect,ect. A no brainer!

As with anything snow related, upkeep is the key!


----------



## xtreem3d

I think all of us who own the business prefer new or newer trucks and equip but the OP was referring to a small fleet and that many newer trucks may not be practical.
Steve


----------



## mike ward

In the past we bought older trucks and reconditioned them but at some point you have to decide what business you are in. Many of my folks aren't able to do on site repairs and reliability is critical. So, no we buy all new trucks and plows. We also are getting the newest technology as well. Different solutions depending on where you are in business and personal preference!


----------



## tbi

What's plan B when these older trucks start failing in large event?


----------



## BUFF

tbi;1861182 said:


> What's plan B when these older trucks start failing in large event?


There's a persona that older vehicles are subject to breakdowns, in some cases it's true however it can be false too. Preventive maintenance is crucial for reliability, this goes for any vehicle.


----------



## northernsweeper

Whats plan B, if your newer truck breaks during a storm? I guess the trick is to have a plan B, no matter what you drive. I bought a 93 K3500 standard cab, SRW 6.5 deisel about 8 years ago. It had no rust and about 30,000 on a new GM longblock. I hung a new 810 blizzard on it when I got it, and its been my main plow truck ever since. Total investment was 14,500. I like the looks of the newer trucks, but doubt I will ever be able to afford one. I can't speak on the durability of the newer trucks, but the 93 chev. and the two 97 f350's I have, are all tanks, and to date anyway, none of them have ever left me stranded during a storm.


----------



## KLC99

tbi;1861182 said:


> What's plan B when these older trucks start failing in large event?


Complete spares - truck, plow, salter, everything waiting to be needed. However the older, simple stuff seems more reliable in some ways


----------



## Gman1200hd

I think the older trucks are just as reliable if not more than the new trucks they have real steel parts not plastic no sensors to go bad can be fixed with simple hand tools no need for a scanner . My 76 highboy can sit for months and fire right up nothing to drain the battery but let my 04 sit for the same time and the clock and computer memory will have drain the battery down and before you crank it the glow plugs fuel pump computer are all drawing amps


----------



## plowguy43

BUFF;1861283 said:


> There's a persona that older vehicles are subject to breakdowns, in some cases it's true however it can be false too. Preventive maintenance is crucial for reliability, this goes for any vehicle.


Agreed!

My truck earns the same amount of money plowing driveways as a 2015 truck would. Difference is, mine paid itself off in less than a year and besides operating expenses, has been pure profit since.

10-15 year old trucks aren't that old, and aren't that difficult to fix. If mine breaks down, I can usually fix it myself and parts are readily available. If its beyond a quick repair, I network with guys in the area that could cover for me if necessary. Even if they take my money from that storm, I'm still making more money than if I were making monthly payments.


----------



## CPC

we have a recyclers license. which means we can buy wrecked trucks and fix them and run those. all of our trucks are 96-05 fords and chevys. the most we have into a truck is 2100 except the plow truck we bought wrecked we have more into bacause of the blown tranny that came with it a few months later. 
so idk if you would consider these new or old but they work for us. the fords with the solid front axles definitely hold up a ton bettewr than our chevy with IFS.

if you could have the old trucks with the luxury and power of a new truck thats what i would do. If you could have the quiet cabs and comfy seats and dash lights that work. worse case you blow a tranny in a storm or before one, everybody i know has a turbo350 or 400 sitting around and axles are everywhere for older trucks. and pulling a tranny or axle on a older truck is cake compared to a new one. as long as things arnt completly rusted together that is.


----------



## KLC99

This old timer is paid for many times over and I'm thinking will clean up nicely with paint


----------



## Dogplow Dodge

Guys are crazy rabbits driving those old trucks. I drive only brand New rides with brand New plows. Its insane driving a 22 year old Cummins powered Dodge, with a Unimount from the same era. Only a nutjob would do that..


----------



## Buswell Forest

Let me know how much fun you have making money when the heater core blows, or the wiper motor dies, or a brake line blows on your second account in a Noreaster. New isn't for everyone, but for those of us who own new, a payment can be planned on, expected. While you pull a leaky gas tank, I will write out a check for Ford motor credit...then go plow.


----------



## Gman1200hd

Yes a payment is planned but if you pull maintenance and take care of your equipment you have no more worries then a new truck and you don't have payments to worry about if its a bad winter plus I saw lots of new trucks gelled up on the side of the road last year and not one old one .


----------



## Banksy

You can run 20+ year old equipment and have it not be junk. A few spare parts and a basic Craftsman tool set in your toolbox can keep the older stuff going through a storm just fine.


----------



## Dogplow Dodge

Would I like to buy a new truck and put a plow on it? Sure would...

Better heat / defrost / quieter inside / new truck smell...

But I love my old ride too much to do something like that...


----------



## JimMarshall

I prefer newer equipment.


----------



## onemanband

I went old school. Great to be debt free. Especially when we have yet to receive any snow here. What happens if we have a dry year. Maybe 2 or three push snows. If you are planning on plowing snow to make your payments and there is a lack of the frozen stuff, then what? Im sure you have a plan B but you maybe adding a little more water to that soup for dinner. 
IMHO, preventive maintenance is key. If you go with an older rig don't hold back on the cost of parts. Buy the upgraded aftermarket equipment that can withstand the punishment of plowing. Especially the front end IE: spicer U joints, Bilstein shocks, tranny filter, new oil, keep everything greased, Use a battery load tester before and after an event. If you think the alternator is going, change it or have it at least tested. Last year so many of the guys I worked with could have prevented there breakdowns. Half of those trucks were Fairly new vehicles. Two of them were outside there warranties the bill for the repair on one of them was steep. With all that said, I would love a new truck.


----------



## BUFF

onemanband;1897542 said:


> IMHO, preventive maintenance is key. If you go with an older rig don't hold back on the cost of parts. Buy the upgraded aftermarket equipment that can withstand the punishment of plowing. Especially the front end IE: spicer U joints, Bilstein shocks, tranny filter, new oil, keep everything greased, Use a battery load tester before and after an event. If you think the alternator is going, change it or have it at least tested.


Exactly......Thumbs Up


----------



## Glenn Lawn Care

Its hard to find trucks that old that are going to be reliable enough to make it through a winter. But i guess its what you can afford, I prefer new trucks or slightly used.


----------



## thelettuceman

I stay with new trucks. I keep up on the maintenance. I like to make sure my truck stays under factory warranty. I trade every few years and I always have a truck payment. I know that payment takes care of breakdowns. I also know that not everyone will agree with what I do. This works for me.


----------



## procut

You could debate this one until you're blue in the face. In my experience though, I have never regretted buying a new or late model truck; but have regretted many used truck purchases.


----------



## CAT 245ME

BUFF;1860533 said:


> Had the 700r rebuilt (built for plowing) w/3yr 36k warranty for $1,100.00, have a 350SB GM Crate motor on its way w/3yr 36k warranty for $1500.00. I'll end up having less than $4500.00 into the K-5 and it will plow as well as a newer truck with the similar equipment.


Just curious, which small block 350 did you get, the 260hp or the 290hp.

I think here in Canada (Atlantic), the 290hp sells for about $2k cdn.

When I had my TH350 rebuilt for my K20 I paid $800 with new torque converter three years ago.


----------



## beanz27

I'd love new but new does fail too. That being said I'd prefer new. Just can't justify beating up a 60k truck.


----------



## IPLOWSNO

All the guys trucks I work with are new 60plus grand and every one of them has body damage!!
Just way too easy to whack them!!

Nice as it would be, I'd get an 80's truck fully restored make the interior how I wanted it!

You can by you I mean I can do an awesome cockpit style fiberglass interior in anything.
Get it restored so like posted above everything thing is new!!
Ls1 motor a real good transfer case hell yea I'd rock a trick like my old 87 without a doubt I'd even like an early 70's

Hell my cousin had a new highboy I'd rock as well


----------



## J&L

we run 29 plow trucks ranging from 1989's to 2009's GMC/Chevy, Internationals, and a couple dodges. majority late 90's early mid 00's. My brother, myself, and my dad take care of 95% of the maintenance and repairs that are done. 2 of the 3 of us having other full time jobs outside of snow. simple maintenance and decent operators go a long ways. we cycle out our older ones as they need to be and keep updating the fleet with newer trucks and new plows. spending 40-50-60k on a truck and then put a plow on it...that's a lot of snow to push to make that worth while...and a lot of trailers to pull in the summer. New would be nice, but i'd rather have 20 good trucks than 1 really nice truck


----------



## FordFisherman

The trick is to buy an older truck that was loaded up with power options and creature features. Then make it a bulletproof plow truck; suspension upgrades, fluid lines, good general maintenance and chase that rust. The technology might not be cutting edge but you will still have a respectable and, most importantly, a very profitable piece of equipment. Lower taxes, insurance and no payments=more profit. And if that leaning tree branch puts a scratch in the side it doesn't hurt as much. JMO


----------



## jimbo64

A lot can be said about buying new (which is nice but expensive) , buying slightly used and buying older. What you can do yourself is also a big factor in buying older equipment and having the facilities and knowledge and especially the TIME has to be considered and factored in to your decision. The main thing is to have reliable and presentable equipment IMO.


----------



## zlssefi

Nothing wrong with older trucks. I run a fleet of 11 old square body chevy/gmc 3/4 and 1 ton pickups. ranging from 73-87 plus a few mid nineties pieces as well. insurance is cheaper, parts are cheaper and when they break you dont need a lap top to fix them. the only thing that gets tough is the kids plowing, who dont know how to stuff the pedal to set the chokes. hahaha They learn though!


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Here's how I see it...buying new is expensive up front yes. Suck it up and bite the bullet and make bigger payments for 5 years. It's now paid for with 60K miles. That truck with correct maintenance will go to 200K with very very little issues.

Suddenly your cost for repairs is much cheaper than buying used and putting money into it.

I've never regretted buying a new truck. Every time I've bought used, within a year I've regretted it.


----------



## IPLOWSNO

My kids always ask if overhauling did a car for me what car my 75 caprice!

I say he'll no take my van and have that lifted, supercharged cut it in half and put a step side box on it.
Put a vee plow on the front , and do a nice interior 

And if the wont do that then pick out one of my old trucks and do the same too that.

They didn't understand why I chose my work vehicles!
I'm in these everyday and that's how I make my money.

My car would be awesome too go out and see all lowered breathing fire going to shows but my work trucks always come first!


----------



## Maclawnco

John_DeereGreen;1898140 said:


> Here's how I see it...buying new is expensive up front yes. Suck it up and bite the bullet and make bigger payments for 5 years. It's now paid for with 60K miles. That truck with correct maintenance will go to 200K with very very little issues.
> 
> Suddenly your cost for repairs is much cheaper than buying used and putting money into it.
> 
> I've never regretted buying a new truck. Every time I've bought used, within a year I've regretted it.


Definitely agree.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

procut;1897650 said:


> You could debate this one until you're blue in the face. In my experience though, I have never regretted buying a new or late model truck; but have regretted many used truck purchases.


I've only regretted the purchase of one used truck.

My others have been fantastic: '02 F450, '99 F550 and a '95 F800 with 21,000 miles. If only the BRAND NEW spreader worked, but hey, the truck runs fine.

I bought a new one this year, because I had to. Used trucks were only a few thousand less than new. And being over 2000 miles away from home, the beginning of a 2 week vacation and having a fifth wheel to get home made it necessary. If those things weren't true, I would have bought used.

I'll take my monthly payments and put them towards body repairs. A transmission every now and then. An alternator. All things that new trucks might need. But I don't have a monthly payment on the older stuff.

Think about it, for $20K, you could buy an older truck, paint it, go through the tranny and engine, suspension, etc and have a solid truck. Put a new plow on it and away you go. Same production as a $40K truck. Maybe not all the creature comforts, but it will still produce the same revenue.


----------



## linckeil

John_DeereGreen;1898140 said:


> Here's how I see it...buying new is expensive up front yes. Suck it up and bite the bullet and make bigger payments for 5 years. It's now paid for with 60K miles. That truck with correct maintenance will go to 200K with very very little issues.
> 
> Suddenly your cost for repairs is much cheaper than buying used and putting money into it.
> 
> I've never regretted buying a new truck. Every time I've bought used, within a year I've regretted it.


yeah, $1000 per month payments for 5 years, then it's all yours - and it's also out of warranty too. i'd regret that purchase every month the money is pulled out of my account. i'd hate it even more when a transmission blows 2 weeks out of warranty.

just 1 years worth of payments can get you a really nice, clean, lower mileage used truck. it'll do all the same things that brand new truck will do and make you the same money, just at a significantly lower cost. sounds like good business to me. and if you know how to turn a wrench and perform proper maintainance, that used truck will last a long long time.

but i'm a guy that likes to turn a wrench and know my truck inside and out. i don't mind getting on my back and checking brake and tranny lines, changing fluids, doing ball joints, U joints, etc, etc. if thats not for you, then yeah, go new - or find a good mechanic you trust to do this for you. i almost feel bad for the guy in the driveway next to me with the $60,000 truck doing all the same work for the same money as me - but then again, he's probably feeling bad for me cus i don't have a heated steering wheel, navigation, or a backup camera!!!

like anything else - to each his own.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

One more thing, what are the insurance costs on an older truck vs brand new?

OK, 2 more. The new stuff, even when out of warranty has to go to a dealer or a really good shop with all the latest diagnostics that cost lots of money that translates into higher hourly rates. Old school, pretty much anybody can work on.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

linckeil;1898153 said:


> yeah, $1000 per month payments for 5 years, then it's all yours - and it's also out of warranty too. i'd regret that purchase every month the money is pulled out of my account. i'd hate it even more when a transmission blows 2 weeks out of warranty.


Da fuqk you buying that your payment is 1K a month? I'm talking work trucks. Regular cab long bed gas 1 tons. Maybe if you wanted a loaded personal truck, or a 450/550/550/5500 then 1K a month...

Truck, plow, spreader, lights, tax and everything for 41K. 5K down our payments on each truck are 650 a month.

Used works for some, it doesn't work for us. We've tried it. Our cost structures are built around new trucks and a 200000 mile life. So we buy new.


----------



## leigh

John_DeereGreen;1898140 said:


> Here's how I see it...buying new is expensive up front yes. Suck it up and bite the bullet and make bigger payments for 5 years. It's now paid for with 60K miles. That truck with correct maintenance will go to 200K with very very little issues.
> 
> Suddenly your cost for repairs is much cheaper than buying used and putting money into it.
> 
> I've never regretted buying a new truck. Every time I've bought used, within a year I've regretted it.


One step up would be to buy that 60k truck at 2 yrs old.So many people upgrade just to have a new truck,just have to be nimble and contantly on the prowl for deals.I bought my 04 dmax in 06 for 28500 from a dealer,original owner traded in for a cc.The sticker was 46k! had 22k miles.I've put 90k on it with under 2k in maintenance repairs.If you do the math you can see who makes out with those deals.1.45 per mile vs .35cents per mile.(so far)


----------



## linckeil

John_DeereGreen;1898166 said:


> Da fuqk you buying that your payment is 1K a month? I'm talking work trucks. Regular cab long bed gas 1 tons. Maybe if you wanted a loaded personal truck, or a 450/550/550/5500 then 1K a month...
> QUOTE]
> 
> i'm not - thats the point.
> 
> MANY guys have work trucks $60k and higher. really easy to get to that level today when pricing a new truck. you like its out of the realm of possibility. for a guy that only buys new, i figured you would know that.
> 
> over 5 years thats $1000 per month - with a 0% interest rate!!!!


----------



## IPLOWSNO

My loaded up van was 900 a month for 4 years, it's totally a work van just loaded with every option I could get.

It was the same price as a extended pu not as heavily optioned and I knew I wasn't putting a plow on it.

It's just a big enclosed tool box, but if you look around the trucks your talking about are few and far between.
Actually they usually have one and it's white lol
Kind of hard to pick that when there's 30 yuppie trucks flanking it!

I ordered a raptor when they first came out, 40 grand it came out too be 8 grand more than my van was.
But I was gonna treat it like a 69 camaro and only use it on nice days.
While waiting for it to get delivered I banked my van payments. A month before it was to be delivered gas went to 4 bucks a gallon and I had a huge bank account.
I sold that truck before I even seen it! In a way it sucked because I would of been the first one in NY to get it.
I had to teach the dealer what a svt raptor was.
We had to call ford and order it over the phone! The guy still didn't know after I ordered it.
The day it came in he was like holy **** how did you know and we didn't ! God bless the Internet probably the only thing it's good for lol


----------



## John_DeereGreen

linckeil;1898176 said:


> i'm not - thats the point.
> 
> MANY guys have work trucks $60k and higher. really easy to get to that level today when pricing a new truck. you like its out of the realm of possibility. for a guy that only buys new, i figured you would know that.
> 
> over 5 years thats $1000 per month - with a 0% interest rate!!!!


A loaded work truck is stupid, in my opinion. Guys working the tax loopholes.

My personal truck is also my work truck. I won't give something to myself that I won't give to my guys. Therefore, all our trucks are cloth seats, power locks, windows, etc. No one gets anything special, the trucks are equipped the same. That's the same reason my truck is an 04, and the new ones go right to crews. I don't need the new one, until mine is due for replacement.

No one needs and can justify a loaded truck for work purposes. Unless they're just working the system, and then they and anyone else has no right to complain about spending a bunch of money on a work truck just to "beat it up"

Our trucks aren't beat up, rusty, etc, because our guys are expeceted to take care of equipment and they're held accountable if something happens.


----------



## onemanband

My perfect world scenario is. You go to the dealer with a trade in or that your vehicle is paid off or sell it on your own. 
Cash in Hand 40,000. Max you are willing to pay is 50k. You walk out with a 10,000 loan. You set your payment at 400 a month. Thats 100 a week. You already have a plow to put on it so that cost is taken care of. All you need to put on it is the truck side mount, Flashy lights, Rear view camera. Full warranty, drive it until you are about to the end of the warranty. Build a relationship with your dealer. Let him know you are going to be in the market soon. Buy new again. Same scenario as above. Thats my perfect world scenario.


----------



## thelettuceman

onemanband;1898242 said:


> My perfect world scenario is. You go to the dealer with a trade in or that your vehicle is paid off or sell it on your own.
> Cash in Hand 40,000. Max you are willing to pay is 50k. You walk out with a 10,000 loan. You set your payment at 400 a month. Thats 100 a week. You already have a plow to put on it so that cost is taken care of. All you need to put on it is the truck side mount, Flashy lights, Rear view camera. Full warranty, drive it until you are about to the end of the warranty. Build a relationship with your dealer. Let him know you are going to be in the market soon. Buy new again. Same scenario as above. Thats my perfect world scenario.


Just did that this week. Traded my 2011 F250 for a 2015 F350 + $9000.00 dollars. Transferred plow to new truck. Told salesman I would see him in 3 years.


----------



## BUFF

CAT 245ME;1897651 said:


> Just curious, which small block 350 did you get, the 260hp or the 290hp.
> 
> I think here in Canada (Atlantic), the 290hp sells for about $2k cdn.
> 
> When I had my TH350 rebuilt for my K20 I paid $800 with new torque converter three years ago.


260h, I'm putting a Edelbrock Performer Cam, Intake and 600CFM Carb on it. Been running this combination for about 25yrs in Jeeps, Pickups and like they way it comes together.


----------



## dr_destructo

Never owned a "new" truck. I normally have a 5-7 year old truck, clean, loaded up on options with a new plow. That would be my daily driver and my plow rig. I also then have another truck(sometimes two) and since that truck sits 9 months out of the year it is normally 8-12 years old and a used plow. No loans. Miles don't really scare me. I just keep up on the maintenance and it has worked for me. Like some others mentioned, I would dread the payment on a new truck. Also, new does not mean reliable. And yes, costs are fixed but that does not mean the truck wont be at the dealer waiting for repairs(even if you don't have to pay for it) then what? My neighbors bought a brand new Escape and at less than 5000 miles a rod went through the side of the engine.....sure Ford covered it. They got it back a month later, didn't cost a dime(unless you count the $25k they paid for it). If your plow truck is out for a month I'm pretty sure you are screwed.


----------



## Nero

I've been plowing for over 30 years now. I run my business about the same way as you do. Never bought a new truck yet. and do 100% of all my repairs.


----------



## edgeair

dr_destructo;1899278 said:


> Never owned a "new" truck. I normally have a 5-7 year old truck, clean, loaded up on options with a new plow. That would be my daily driver and my plow rig. I also then have another truck(sometimes two) and since that truck sits 9 months out of the year it is normally 8-12 years old and a used plow. No loans. Miles don't really scare me. I just keep up on the maintenance and it has worked for me. Like some others mentioned, I would dread the payment on a new truck. Also, new does not mean reliable. And yes, costs are fixed but that does not mean the truck wont be at the dealer waiting for repairs(even if you don't have to pay for it) then what? My neighbors bought a brand new Escape and at less than 5000 miles a rod went through the side of the engine.....sure Ford covered it. They got it back a month later, didn't cost a dime(unless you count the $25k they paid for it). If your plow truck is out for a month I'm pretty sure you are screwed.


Right, get what you are saying. However, what is the difference if your truck is off warranty? You are still down your truck if that happened - AND - you are spending your time fixing it when you should be out plowing and making money.

Even minor repairs are time spent by you when you could be out making money. Not going to advocate owning a new truck over an older one (hey, my plow truck is an 04), but when repair work takes time away from working and making money, the new/newer truck just saved you money. Sometimes it is a false economy to think that just because a person can do their own repairs, means that is a cheaper option.

I have seen guys lose contracts because the customers realize after one of these "repair episodes" where their lot isn't cleared in a timely manner, they should have gone with the reliable guy with the "image" truck. Nobody's saying new trucks don't give trouble, but generally speaking, they give a lot less trouble.

For me, I have an semi older plow truck, which allows me to afford to have equipment to do snow, which allows me to use the plow truck as more of a backup, thereby negating the need for the new plow truck.


----------



## Nero

If you have no time to work on your trucks and you're constantly plowing day in and day out I can see that. But in my area you have time. As long as you have backup trucks. When in downtime( no snow) working / maintenance on the trucks is just part of the job.


----------



## Buswell Forest

If my new truck blew the engine, I am confident my dealer would let me use their demo/lot truck while it was repaired. They understand it is my very ability to be buying the new truck that is on the line.


----------



## JD Dave

If you have new or old it's your responsibility to a have back up equipment. If your brand new truck breaks down at 1am in the morning on a large storm your not getting your dealers lot truck until morning and your going to have a lot of upset customers. Putting faith in one peice of anything plowing snow is a pretty scary scenario.


----------



## jimbo64

There are good and bad points to owning new, newer or older. If you have the knowledge and the time to do your own repairs then I commend you. Not everyone is able, capable or has the time to do all their own work. We all do what we are capable and comfortable with. It's nice to know how different people conduct their business and IMO there is no right or wrong. Some of these threads always seem to turn into an argument (should I mention gas v diesel).


----------



## thelettuceman

Buswell Forest;1899459 said:


> If my new truck blew the engine, I am confident my dealer would let me use their demo/lot truck while it was repaired. They understand it is my very ability to be buying the new truck that is on the line.


I hope that work for you. My dealer would laugh me straight into the Atlantic Ocean and hope that a shark bites me.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I have always owned used trucks and probably always will. While I would like a new truck, it's a lot of money to invest in one vehicle when I could purchase two used low mileage trucks for the same money. 

I agree with Dave's post, your main concern needs to be having backup equipment in place and not only that it is important to know how to use a wrench in this line of work, if it snows 12" on Christmas day I'm pretty sure there are no garages open to help you. Having spare parts on hand such as hydraulic hoses, U joints or muffler hangers is a pretty good idea. 

For me my main selling point for new customers is that I have spare equipment in case of an emergency. Has anyone ever thought what would happen if your new or used one truck was involved in an accident, lets say the day before a storm? I'm pretty sure Enterprise doesn't rent plow trucks.


----------



## Buswell Forest

I have 2 trucks, and I have 2 friends who could be called. In a worst case scenario, I would walk in and buy a new truck and plow, though that is the extreme.


----------



## Nero

You would buy another new truck and plow if your new truck went down?


----------



## BUFF

Nero;1899664 said:


> You would buy another new truck and plow if your new truck went down?


:laughing::laughing:


----------



## jimbo64

BUFF;1899675 said:


> :laughing::laughing:


That was his worst case scenario. If I had a new truck and plow that was in a bad accident I would probably do the same thing although maybe not brand new but you can only have so many spare trucks and plows sitting around.


----------



## BUFF

jimbo64;1899728 said:


> That was his worst case scenario. If I had a new truck and plow that was in a bad accident I would probably do the same thing although maybe not brand new but you can only have so many spare trucks and plows sitting around.


Accidents are one thing, for a breakdown is another.


----------



## MK97

Nero;1899664 said:


> You would buy another new truck and plow if your new truck went down?


That's how pros do it. I go one level higher. If I get a flat, I'm off to the dealer for a new truck and plow. Don't have time for repairs! :laughing:

Maintenance is key for new or old. Thinking brand new equipment won't break or less likely to break is laughable. This became obvious to me in the oil field. 99% of the trucks or typically less than 2 years old if not brand new. Seen plenty have random sensors die, mechanical issues,etc that leave it inoperable 100 miles from the dealer.

That shiny warranty doesn't cover you backing up and loosing a mirror ($1300 for a 2012 F350), or hitting a rock/pole and ripping open the fuel tank ($1500) along with plenty of other likely issues you're bound to run into in this field.

Every guy is different and I do like newer trucks due for a few reasons. However buying new when I can do the same with older equipment and bank that additional for either equipment or a new truck later on makes more sense to me.


----------



## leigh

CAT 245ME;1899597 said:


> I have always owned used trucks and probably always will. While I would like a new truck, it's a lot of money to invest in one vehicle when I could purchase two used low mileage trucks for the same money.
> 
> I agree with Dave's post, your main concern needs to be having backup equipment in place and not only that it is important to know how to use a wrench in this line of work, if it snows 12" on Christmas day I'm pretty sure there are no garages open to help you. Having spare parts on hand such as hydraulic hoses, U joints or muffler hangers is a pretty good idea.
> 
> For me my main selling point for new customers is that I have spare equipment in case of an emergency. Has anyone ever thought what would happen if your new or used one truck was involved in an accident, lets say the day before a storm? I'm pretty sure Enterprise doesn't rent plow trucks.


United rentals rents plow trucks here,I should stop in and ask how much just for giggles,who knows,maybe it would work out cheaper!


----------



## edgeair

Nero;1899452 said:


> If you have no time to work on your trucks and you're constantly plowing day in and day out I can see that. But in my area you have time. As long as you have backup trucks. When in downtime( no snow) working / maintenance on the trucks is just part of the job.


Right. The problem is, murphy's law always seems to kick in. Breakdowns inevitably happen in the middle of a snow storm, when you don't have time, and should be plowing. A plow truck doesn't often break when the sun is shining and its parked, its funny how that works...

That also works if all you do is plow snow in the winter time. For me, and most of the guys I know around here, when we have a week long stretch where the snow isn't falling, we have other things to do that make us money. If I was always wrenching my truck instead of taking on those jobs, I know I would be much further behind financially than if I did own a new truck with payments (I don't). The key is to have a backup, do your maintenance proactively in the off season, and buy a reliable truck whether it be new or used. The OP was indicating plowing with vintage (80's and older) trucks, and that seems just silly, but I suppose if you have a back up for your backups why not if it works for you. Just don't complain about your insurance for carrying all those extra trucks on the road.... prsport


----------



## Nero

Most of us in this location usually bank money from the previous seasons. Due to snow plowing is not and every day event in this area. My business lives off of money that was made/saved in spring summer and fall.Like a squirrel we save our nuts until we need them. LOL.


----------



## CAT 245ME

leigh;1899894 said:


> United rentals rents plow trucks here,I should stop in and ask how much just for giggles,who knows,maybe it would work out cheaper!


Check it out, never hurts to ask.


----------



## Buswell Forest

Nero;1899664 said:


> You would buy another new truck and plow if your new truck went down?


If my dealer wouldn't give me a loaner and or the repair was going to take 3 weeks or something crazy, yes. I am not going to lose all my customers, because if I did....then the new (broken) truck would be a lot harder to pay for. Losing them would be worse than buying another truck.


----------



## Nero

I have run my business like this for a long time.

Best of all: I am a Republican that accepts no government support and I take pride in that. That's why I believe when you run a business you need to have a savings account that you can always fall on when business is not so good.Like a farmer that makes his big $$. after his harvest.


----------



## Nero

Buswell Forest;1899967 said:


> If my dealer wouldn't give me a loaner and or the repair was going to take 3 weeks or something crazy, yes. I am not going to lose all my customers, because if I did....then the new (broken) truck would be a lot harder to pay for. Losing them would be worse than buying another truck.


Then just buy another new truck now!


----------



## maxwellp

80's or older.


----------



## maxwellp

ok A little past 80's 1996 / first year of OBDII


----------



## Dogplow Dodge

maxwellp;1900024 said:


> ok A little past 80's 1996 / first year of OBDII


Is that a Vee Plow on a 1/2 ton truck ? Never would I think that would last but a few moments before stuff started breaking...

Nice pic of the old dodge above. Love the birdbath hood styled trucks.


----------



## maxwellp

Dogplow Dodge;1900026 said:


> Is that a Vee Plow on a 1/2 ton truck ? Never would I think that would last but a few moments before stuff started breaking...
> 
> Nice pic of the old dodge above. Love the birdbath hood styled trucks.


Yes it is / and THEY say you can't put a V Plow on a half ton. 
It is a DANA 44 , used to be in 3/4 and 1 Tons. 
I have not seen one on a 2002 or newer. That may be asking to much.


----------



## Rick547

maxwellp;1900041 said:


> Yes it is / and THEY say you can't put a V Plow on a half ton.
> It is a DANA 44 , used to be in 3/4 and 1 Tons.
> I have not seen one on a 2002 or newer. That may be asking to much.


Boss shows a 7.5 V plow as an option for my 99 Ford F150.


----------



## Nero

A Dana 44 in the front was stock on the older 1/2 ton Dodges like that.I believe up to 2001 after that I believe they went to an independent suspension on the 1/2 tons.


----------



## maxwellp

Nero;1900059 said:


> A Dana 44 in the front was stock on the older 1/2 ton Dodges like that.I believe up to 2001 after that I believe they went to an independent suspension on the 1/2 tons.


Yes - that is why I have no problem putting that V plow on it. wesportThumbs Up


----------



## Nero

That still is a lot of weight for that axle. Ball joints u joints everything is smaller on those Dana 44s due to they are only really a half ton axle. A Dana 60 would be ideal.


----------



## Nero

Your trucks look Good.


----------



## CAT 245ME

maxwellp;1900024 said:


> ok A little past 80's 1996 / first year of OBDII


Those 94-01 (94-02 2500) Ram trucks are pretty solid, I purchased my first non GM truck last year a 99 RAM 2500 ECSB with 360 engine, put an 8'2 Boss with wings making it 10'. No matter what that truck wouldn't quit, even in deep snow, never removed the wings.


----------



## Nero

I agree 100%. I had GM trucks most of my life. But I really like the Rams the best for plowing. That's why I use them now as well.


----------



## rjigto4oje

maxwellp;1900024 said:


> ok A little past 80's 1996 / first year of OBDII


Nice I like how you upgraded to the black heated mirrors i I did the same my 1996 is white the blue one is a 98


----------



## Nero

Dodge.. Looking good man.


----------



## artfull dodger

Getting back into plowing with an older Dodge myself. 1986 W250 Power Ram, 318 V8, 4spd, 7'6" Western conventional cable control. I used to plow for a shop I worked for back in Erie, PA with a 1990 Ford Bronco Eddie Bauer with a 7 foot Meyer power angle. I love the older straight axle rigs. The owner of our company has a 2014 GMC 1/2 ton Z71 with a Boss 7'6" Vxt on it. With a leveling kit installed, it carries it well. How the rest of the truck will hold up, we shall see. I am personaly a huge fan of the 80's and early 90's Rams. With my older Ram, I can fix most anything right were it breaks, I carry the basic tools with me, along with spare U joints, a couple wire coat hangers to hold up a falling exhaust ect. I have both Cell Phone, CB and 2m Ham Radio in the truck to call for help if need be. Our town is small enough that one of the other drivers isnt far away if one of us breaks down. We just keep plowing with what we have and come back to get the disabled rig when we have time. Is it for everybody no, but neither is new truck payments. How many here can honestly say they know how to use a timing light or a dwell meter? I grew up wrenching on small block V8's of several flavors, started on Chevy 350's, then caught the Mopar bug. Kind of hard to trouble shoot the complex sensor stuff on new trucks in the field! Mike


----------



## maxwellp

timing light or a dwell meter

I have both of these things  They hardly ever come out anymore. You don't even need it to replace the Distributor on a 96. 

I had to put a Distributor cap on the 96 what a PITA - screw was rusted - snapped off - Older are easier to get to.


----------



## plowguy43

Buswell Forest;1897370 said:


> Let me know how much fun you have making money when the heater core blows, or the wiper motor dies, or a brake line blows on your second account in a Noreaster. New isn't for everyone, but for those of us who own new, a payment can be planned on, expected. While you pull a leaky gas tank, I will write out a check for Ford motor credit...then go plow.


The irony of this post, when you made 2 separate Threads about issues with your new F350:



Buswell Forest;1870352 said:


> Yesterday, I took the "new truck" to the store just because...
> 
> The frost was just starting to melt on the windshield, and I started out...and *when I raised the XV², the dash readout, radio, and heater all shut off for 3 to 4 seconds! It did this every time I raised the plow until the truck was fully warmed up!* Using the wings didn't cause them to turn off.
> I am concerned, because even fully warmed up, using the raise function will draw the engine rpm down to under 500 at idle.
> 
> Anyone have any insight here?
> 
> I will copy and paste this in the Fisher forum as well.


My 2002 has 194k miles on it - Heater core is perfect, brake lines were all replaced years ago with upgraded lines to resist rusting - your 2015 lines will rust just as easy as a used one. And Brake lines are cheap to have done or do yourself, which I consider normal maintenance. Wiper Motors? I have yet to lose one, but yes this would cause me to stop and buy one locally (Just checked, in stock at my local Advance Auto $109) and install it.

My repairs have been all maintenance oriented, nothing considered a breakdown - new front brakes, replaced rear calipers/brakes, and new front wheel bearings because the ABS plug dropped from its clip and corroded (could've spliced but didn't want to mess with it if the bearings went bad again). Every part has been readily available and was simple to replace.



Mark Oomkes;1898159 said:


> One more thing, what are the insurance costs on an older truck vs brand new?
> 
> OK, 2 more. The new stuff, even when out of warranty has to go to a dealer or a really good shop with all the latest diagnostics that cost lots of money that translates into higher hourly rates. Old school, pretty much anybody can work on.


Insurance will be less on an older model for the most part - easier to source used/aftermarket parts for collision repairs, lower value, etc. For question #2 I completely agree with you. Having been a fleet repair manager for 8 years, I can tell you that the newer vehicles require a flatbed for something as dumb as a module not recognizing the key in the vehicle, or the throttle pedal being out of sync with the throttle body.


----------



## Buswell Forest

No irony. It is normal. Doesn't do it after it has been running a few minutes. Used the truck for 1000 miles now. Perfect.


----------



## RONK

What would be your ideal choice in an older truck?


----------



## leigh

It looks like I'm slowly but surely switching to older trucks against my will ! The love of my life was only 2 when I bought her,now starting to show her age at 11 and her big sister is 10,oh well. Father time is sneaky.


----------



## plowguy43

Buswell Forest;1902902 said:


> No irony. It is normal. Doesn't do it after it has been running a few minutes. Used the truck for 1000 miles now. Perfect.


Good I'm happy it was nothing serious and wasn't trying to say it's a POS or anything. Quite simply they all break, newer trucks have warranty coverage which is great if the dealer can figure it out quickly, but to others the cost far outweighs that benefit. Although I would love a new truck, I don't * need * one.


----------



## TPCLandscaping

I plow in the winter but then I'm on the road all summer towing my lawn care trailer. I used to have the old trucks that i bought cheap and would put dollar after dollar into them. It was costing me more a month to keep up those old trucks then having 2 new trucks w/ new plows and warranty. My cousin used to do all my repair work, he misses me now lol. My NAPA bill is starting to go down instead of up. I get done a snow storm, wash the trucks off and call it a day (yes they all get regular maintenance). I'll stick with the new trucks


----------



## John_DeereGreen

TPCLandscaping;1903659 said:


> I plow in the winter but then I'm on the road all summer towing my lawn care trailer. I used to have the old trucks that i bought cheap and would put dollar after dollar into them. It was costing me more a month to keep up those old trucks then having 2 new trucks w/ new plows and warranty. My cousin used to do all my repair work, he misses me now lol. My NAPA bill is starting to go down instead of up. I get done a snow storm, wash the trucks off and call it a day (yes they all get regular maintenance). I'll stick with the new trucks


Amen.

Please lengthen your message to at least 10 carachters.


----------



## Nero

Whenever replacing parts on older trucks I always go better than stock. For instance brake lines, I replace with copper-nickel last forever/longer than new truck brake lines. lol.all u joints and ball joints replaced with Moog greaseable fittings. use Moog wheel bearings.Use synthetic lubricants in engine, differentials, grease fittings,trany & transfer case.
What now days has greasable fittings?


----------



## Nero

With used trucks.. key is doing your own repairs... otherwise YES then just buy new.

But when I retire my money will still be in the bank.


----------



## Nero

RONK;1903610 said:


> What would be your ideal choice in an older truck?


Loaded.. with all the bells and whistles & everything working like new. But without the price tag of a new vehicle.


----------



## BUFF

Nero;1904113 said:


> With used trucks.. key is doing your own repairs... otherwise YES then just buy new.
> 
> But when I retire my money will still be in the bank.


Being a fellow old guy (not quite as old but close enough) we're the last of the baby boomers and speaking for myself I was raised by a man that fixed damn near everything. This was passed on to me and I'm passing it on to my kids. 
In the case I don't have the test equipment I have a very good friend with a auto repair shop that helps me out and I return the favor.

My main plow truck is a '97 F-350, my boy has a '86 Blazer with a plow and to really mix things up I bought a '15 Super Duty last week. When I bought the '15 I got a $1000.00 Up-fitter rebate and I'm putting a truck-side on the '15. The '15 will be a back up for my '97 if needed.


----------



## Nero

Congratulations on your new truck!

Super Duty! I don't know about your thoughts but I would be tempted to put a plow on that. LOL..

What will you be using the truck-side for?


----------



## Nero

I think your location also may make your priorities different in your field. Due to our longer & warmer months in the summer I buy new Zero Turn mowers every few years. Its always nice working on new equipment.


----------



## BUFF

Nero;1904194 said:


> Congratulations on your new truck!
> 
> Super Duty! I don't know about your thoughts but I would be tempted to put a plow on that. LOL..
> 
> What will you be using the truck-side for?


I have a 8.2 Boss DXT w/wings on my '97.

My '97 only has 62K on it and has plenty of life left, I had a '08 SD that wasn't set up for a plow. The only reason why I'm putting a truck side on the '15 is because of the Up-Fit rebate which covers it's cost.


----------



## BUFF

Nero;1904213 said:


> I think your location also may make your priorities different in your field. Due to our longer & warmer months in the summer I buy new Zero Turn mowers every few years. Its always nice working on new equipment.


It's very common for us to have a couple good storms into May and starting to be a threat late September. When those storms roll through I find myself mowing around snow piles from the recent storms. So what I'm getting at is our seasons overlap by a couple months at the start and end of winter.

I'm contemplating new hydro's and new motors instead of replacing mowers when the time comes. I figure I can do save myself about $5-6K by doing so.


----------



## Brian Young

Since this post, Ive been looking around for older (pre 90's) and there's not a whole lot around that aren't complete junk and if they're even remotely road worthy these guys want a lot more than I thought they would go for. Someone posted about being comfortable or not being comfortable in an older truck...my buddy did a basic ground up on a 92 F-250 this summer, he took off the cab and bed, had everything blasted and repainted with some 20yr epoxy stuff, all new brake lines etc. put a 460 with under 30k, had the tranny gone through and gutted the interior and replaced the seats with a set from a 05 F250, he said it fit right in. When he was done with it (took him about 2 months) it looked and ran like a brand new truck. He said he had about 4k into everything but he did everything but the sand blasting and paint. Oh, and he had I think 5k or so into the truck itself so totaling around 9-10k for a truck that will be plow worthy for years.

As far as a plow, I'd rather have a newer one


----------



## Nero

I agree, my plows are fine years old and garage kept. But when need replacing in years from now I will buy new again.


----------



## BUFF

Brian Young;1904269 said:


> Since this post, Ive been looking around for older (pre 90's) and there's not a whole lot around that aren't complete junk and if they're even remotely road worthy these guys want a lot more than I thought they would go for. Someone posted about being comfortable or not being comfortable in an older truck...my buddy did a basic ground up on a 92 F-250 this summer, he took off the cab and bed, had everything blasted and repainted with some 20yr epoxy stuff, all new brake lines etc. put a 460 with under 30k, had the tranny gone through and gutted the interior and replaced the seats with a set from a 05 F250, he said it fit right in. When he was done with it (took him about 2 months) it looked and ran like a brand new truck. He said he had about 4k into everything but he did everything but the sand blasting and paint. Oh, and he had I think 5k or so into the truck itself so totaling around 9-10k for a truck that will be plow worthy for years.
> 
> As far as a plow, I'd rather have a newer one


Something along these lines?

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4797785092.html


----------



## Flawless440

Search for older trucks down south... Not close to the ocean, salt water in the air is just as bad as salt on the road..

Any old truck here is rusted junk..

I have had the best luck with Chevy's year 2000 and up gas engines.. All my diesels been hell, 7.3 liter been 
good to me... Out of all of them 07 chevy 2500 gas... 103k on her now, paid off, minor repairs.. Plow truck its whole life


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Flawless440;1904411 said:


> All my diesels been hell,


Isn't that the truth. We bought our second gas truck last month. Now have a '13 6.4 Hemi and a '14 6.4 Hemi. Lifetime warranty, never looking back.


----------



## procut1

I ran a lot of 90s trucks. And a few new ones. I also rented plow trucks for the season. My situation was that I needed 4-5 trucks during the non snow months but I needed 10-12 when it snowed. So most of the trucks sat except for 15 tines a year. I would buy mid 90's chevy 2500s, all pretty similar and made sure to have spares. Yes they broke, but most times with their simple systems they could be fixed in a parking lot. I had a mechanic wit a service truck that kept common spare parts and he could fix most anything and if not, could take the driver back for a spare. The main difference for me between the older and newer was just that. An older one was usually a quick fix. A hose, a wire, a belt. Newer ones, when they went down in the middle of the night they were done for the storm. It would be something electronic, a circuit board, a solonod that was dealer only or something like that.


----------



## FordFisherman

So when you couple the payments and insurance and loss of productivity when a new truck breaks the older paid for vehicle is the more cost effective choice.


----------



## Herm Witte

FordFisherman;1905968 said:


> So when you couple the payments and insurance and loss of productivity when a new truck breaks the older paid for vehicle is the more cost effective choice.


Been following this thread a bit. We have been plowing snow with various types of jeeps and trucks since the late fifties. I have run our business since 1976 and totally disagree with the above post. The newer trucks we use today are much more dependable than they were in the 70's and eighties. Our maintenance records prove it. I have two questions that I have not seen discussed (although I may have missed it); Do those of you restoring older trucks add in the value of your time?, and is the marketplace (ability or lack of ability to charge) a significant factor in deciding whether or not to restore a truck(s).


----------



## JD Dave

I agree with what Herm said. We try and wait for deals on trucks to buy new or get something next to new for a good price. Not many guys around here have plow only pickups anymore. If you don't need them all year round your there's more productive peices of equipment you can buy that will do 3-4 times the work of a plow truck and only require one operator. I know not everyone's plowing work can justify this equipment but for some its something to seriously look into.


----------



## Flawless440

John_DeereGreen;1905597 said:


> Isn't that the truth. We bought our second gas truck last month. Now have a '13 6.4 Hemi and a '14 6.4 Hemi. Lifetime warranty, never looking back.


Please Explain the Lifetime Warranty

Saw gas for $1.98 today... Gas engines looking better and better..

My new Ford 6.7 diesel needs a dam radiator. Dealer said $1500. Be wrenchin on that one myself.


----------



## Buswell Forest

FordFisherman;1905968 said:


> So when you couple the payments and insurance and loss of productivity when a new truck breaks the older paid for vehicle is the more cost effective choice.


If used was the best way to go, new trucks would not be made. 
Nothing like a stuck caliper at 3am down at the bottom of a sloped driveway.:yow!:


----------



## dwmaster

IMO the best dedicated plow pickup is a chev/gmc with 6.2 diesel, this setup will give you a comfortable cab with one of the best transmissions ever made coupled to enough power to move snow but not enough to burn Tranny up.
But even better but more money is a 2002 or older dodge diesel. Sharpest turning radius, no torn driveline boots, strong body panels and Tranny will last if you put a good heat gauge on it and watch it and of coarse stop moving forward before you slam the foot feet in reverse. These things are tanks. Dana 70 rearend and Dana 60 front ends. It's front axles are same or bigger bigger than any ford or chevy rear axle. As far as diesel or gas, a diesel will use about 1/2 the fuel per hour than a gas so more expensive diesel still cheaper and the above mentioned diesels run forever.


----------



## SnoFarmer

Whats not covered.
•
corrosion caused by the extensive or abnormal trans-
port of caustic materials like chemicals, acids, and
fertilizers; and
•
corrosion of special bodies, body conversions, or
equipment that was not on your vehicle when it left
the manufacturing plant or was not supplied by
Chrysler.
3.6 Other Exclusions
Your warranties don't cover the costs of repairing
damage or conditions caused by any of the following:
•
fire or accident;
•
abuse or negligence;
•
misuse - for example, driving over curbs or over-
loading;
•
tampering with the emission systems, or with a part
that could affect the emission systems;
•
use of used parts, even if they were originally sup-
plied by Chrysler (however, authorized Chrysler /
MOPAR remanufactured parts are covered);
•
windshield or rear window damage from external
objects;
•
any changes made to your vehicle that don't comply
with Chrysler; or
•
using any fluid that doesn't meet the minimum
recommendations in your Owner's Manual

so when they see that plow frame what do you think they are going to say?

then read page 4 of the warranty.
http://www.ramtrucks.com/shared/pdf/warranty/2014-Ram_2500_3500_Gas_Warranty-2nd.pdf

"If you use your vehicle primarily for business or
commercial purposes, then these implied warranties do
not apply and Chrysler completely disclaims them to the
extent allowed by law. And the implied warranty of
fitness for a particular purpose does not apply if your
vehicle is used for racing, even if the vehicle is equipped
for racing."

if you plow for $$$ your using it for a business and commercial use.....


----------



## Nero

Well.. you could say.

I enjoyed this down time with no snow.

I have no payments!

Trucks are ready to make money.

Best of all.

They Don't need to pay for themselves. so all of the above works well for me.

Oh yeah. & the whole idea of this is to make money.

$$..Still in the bank.


----------



## FordFisherman

Buswell Forest;1906175 said:


> If used was the best way to go, new trucks would not be made.
> Nothing like a stuck caliper at 3am down at the bottom of a sloped driveway.:yow!:


All trucks break down sooner or later. All I'm saying is, at the end of the season, my paid for, lower insurance cost used truck is a more profitablepayup unit than your new truck, which uses a good amount of its earnings to cover payments and insurance before it becomes profitable. If you factor in a breakdown, the loss of profitabilitypayuppayup
is compounded by still having to make payments on a unit that is not earning any money, whereas, my used paid for truck is only losing what would have been earned during the down time.
Lower overhead=more profit
Call me old school, but I just can't see spending $50K on a truck that will be exposed to an incredibly harsh environment and that you need a PhD to repair when a good used truck will do the same job equally as well, and put more money in my pocket. JMO


----------



## Nero

If we all have time to be on this plow site, and we're all knowledgeable enough to work on our vehicles, I would sure think we can use that time to be more constructive on our vehicles. to me that equals to no time. leaving only a case of prioritizing.


----------



## snocrete

SnoFarmer;1906557 said:


> Whats not covered.
> •
> corrosion caused by the extensive or abnormal trans-
> port of caustic materials like chemicals, acids, and
> fertilizers; and
> •
> corrosion of special bodies, body conversions, or
> equipment that was not on your vehicle when it left
> the manufacturing plant or was not supplied by
> Chrysler.
> 3.6 Other Exclusions
> Your warranties don't cover the costs of repairing
> damage or conditions caused by any of the following:
> •
> fire or accident;
> •
> abuse or negligence;
> •
> misuse - for example, driving over curbs or over-
> loading;
> •
> tampering with the emission systems, or with a part
> that could affect the emission systems;
> •
> use of used parts, even if they were originally sup-
> plied by Chrysler (however, authorized Chrysler /
> MOPAR remanufactured parts are covered);
> •
> windshield or rear window damage from external
> objects;
> •
> any changes made to your vehicle that don't comply
> with Chrysler; or
> •
> using any fluid that doesn't meet the minimum
> recommendations in your Owner's Manual
> 
> so when they see that plow frame what do you think they are going to say?
> 
> then read page 4 of the warranty.
> http://www.ramtrucks.com/shared/pdf/warranty/2014-Ram_2500_3500_Gas_Warranty-2nd.pdf
> 
> "If you use your vehicle primarily for business or
> commercial purposes, then these implied warranties do
> not apply and Chrysler completely disclaims them to the
> extent allowed by law. And the implied warranty of
> fitness for a particular purpose does not apply if your
> vehicle is used for racing, even if the vehicle is equipped
> for racing."
> 
> if you plow for $$$ your using it for a business and commercial use.....


Just one more reason not to buy a dodge


----------



## Nero

Ford, Dodge, Chevy... new or used, they all break. take all of those warranties and stick it where the Sun don't shine.


----------



## Jakedaawg

there is guy up here, who plows commercially, and got a Dodge a few years ago with a lifetime warranty. He has used the warranty several times and the dealer never even batted an eye.


----------



## Buswell Forest

Nero;1906742 said:


> Ford, Dodge, Chevy... new or used, they all break. take all of those warranties and stick it where the Sun don't shine.


Milwaukee?


----------



## jimbo64

Jakedaawg;1906746 said:


> there is guy up here, who plows commercially, and got a Dodge a few years ago with a lifetime warranty. He has used the warranty several times and the dealer never even batted an eye.[/QUOTE
> 
> I would love to have his contact info or the contact info of the Dealer. I would order a new truck in the spring if I can get a lifetime warranty in writing from Dodge/ Chrysler / Fiat.
> I've purchased extended warranties on new vehicles but have never heard of lifetime warranties although I've been reading about scam warranties that you often see advertised on tv or online for vehicles with less than 150,000. miles and covers just about anything that can go wrong...but you know what they say "if it's too good to be true" it usually is.


----------



## Dogplow Dodge

Buswell Forest;1906778 said:


> Milwaukee?


Isn't that where Shotz brewery is ?


----------



## Jakedaawg

I guess a few years ago they were having a hard time moving the dodge truck. They offered a lifetime warranty to him and he took it. He has used it several times. He has always run dodge. Thats all I know, he is not the kind of guy that tells stories.


----------



## snocrete

Herm Witte;1906006 said:


> Been following this thread a bit. We have been plowing snow with various types of jeeps and trucks since the late fifties. I have run our business since 1976 and totally disagree with the above post. The newer trucks we use today are much more dependable than they were in the 70's and eighties. Our maintenance records prove it. I have two questions that I have not seen discussed (although I may have missed it); *Do those of you restoring older trucks add in the value of your time?, *and is the marketplace (ability or lack of ability to charge) a significant factor in deciding whether or not to restore a truck(s).


It sure dosent seem that way when you read their posts, and of course its easy to make things out to be better/cheaper/faster on the interweb. And as for you 2nd question, I think that may have more to do with the type/size of business as to the marketplace (and its fun for some guys, even if its less profitable in the long run....and cheaper in the short term)???



Nero;1906742 said:


> Ford, Dodge, Chevy... new or used, they all break. take all of those warranties and stick it where the Sun don't shine.


Relax you old fart...I was just giving Snowfarmer a hard time because I know he has a dodge. And yes they all break, but newer trucks break less. BTW, we run a mixture of newer and older rigs just so you know. 1 thing I can say, my guys make me A LOT more money performing the services we offer than working on our equipment/trucks. Outside of basic maintenance & repairs, "unless we have down time", its stupid to pull my guys or myself from our work to work equipment/trucks. We make more money than what we are paying a shop to do in that time.


----------



## Nero

Dogplow Dodge;1906802 said:


> Isn't that where Shotz brewery is ?


And proud of it!


----------



## Nero

snocrete;1906823 said:


> It sure dosent seem that way when you read their posts, and of course its easy to make things out to be better/cheaper/faster on the interweb. And as for you 2nd question, I think that may have more to do with the type/size of business as to the marketplace (and its fun for some guys, even if its less profitable in the long run....and cheaper in the short term)???
> 
> Relax you old fart...I was just giving Snowfarmer a hard time because I know he has a dodge. And yes they all break, but newer trucks break less. BTW, we run a mixture of newer and older rigs just so you know. 1 thing I can say, my guys make me A LOT more money performing the services we offer than working on our equipment/trucks. Outside of basic maintenance & repairs, "unless we have down time", its stupid to pull my guys or myself from our work to work equipment/trucks. We make more money than what we are paying a shop to do in that time.


Oh sure! you pay somebody else to fix your equipment? then you Need to buy New. that is only good business sense.


----------



## snocrete

Nero;1906830 said:


> Oh sure! you pay somebody else to fix your equipment? then you Need to buy New. that is only good business sense.


 WOW....did you forget your Exelon patch today?


----------



## Nero

That's funny... I had to look that up. If that works for you then stick with it.


----------



## dwmaster

I just put together a 2001 dodge 2500 camper special diesel automatic coupled with a 2 year old Boss power v, I have 10 in the truck and 4 into the plow. Now days with the high cost of HD diesels they depreciate anywhere from 16,000 to 5,000 bucks a year in their first few years. No way you can spend that much keeping a dedicated plow pickup going. I have kept the 2500 dodge, ordered with factory snow plow endorsement in warranty with since 94 and have never had a problem with warranty. 3/36 or 7/100 good warrenties. Dodge has not approved plows on 1/2 tons that I know of they might now.


----------



## Nero

dwmaster;1906864 said:


> I just put together a 2001 dodge 2500 camper special diesel automatic coupled with a 2 year old Boss power v, I have 10 in the truck and 4 into the plow. Now days with the high cost of HD diesels they depreciate anywhere from 16,000 to 5,000 bucks a year in their first few years. No way you can spend that much keeping a dedicated plow pickup going. I have kept the 2500 dodge, ordered with factory snow plow endorsement in warranty with since 94 and have never had a problem with warranty. 3/36 or 7/100 good warrenties. Dodge has not approved plows on 1/2 tons that I know of they might now.


Well I don't know much about warranties. I would be happy for you if the warranty still works?

It's about time someone gets their money's worth out of a new truck. LOL...

That Dodge 250 is a true workhorse.


----------



## Nero

You would think if people didn't like older trucks they would be on the "Switching to new trucks post"!
With all this down time there should be a lot on that post.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Flawless440;1906084 said:


> Please Explain the Lifetime Warranty





Jakedaawg;1906746 said:


> there is guy up here, who plows commercially, and got a Dodge a few years ago with a lifetime warranty. He has used the warranty several times and the dealer never even batted an eye.


I'm not concerned about the commercial use, our dealer has always taken good care of us. From what I've seen on the commercial use warranty it's dealer descretion unless it's a major major failure that corporate comes in on.


----------



## CAT 245ME

snocrete;1906823 said:


> It sure dosent seem that way when you read their posts, and of course its easy to make things out to be better/cheaper/faster on the interweb.


When I built my 85 K20 from the ground up I mainly did it for something to do, I could've built it for far less money than I did, I didn't need to add new Mickey Thompson wheels, 35" tires, suspension lift & etc.

For me, I'd sooner take an older rig and build it into what I want and like.

I can afford a new truck, but driving threw the lots seeing rows and rows of new cars and trucks, all I really see is the same plain thing over and over that everyone else has. When I look at the price on new vehicles, the first thing I think is, what could I build with that money.


----------



## Rat_Power_78

dwmaster;1906499 said:


> IMO the best dedicated plow pickup is a chev/gmc with 6.2 diesel, this setup will give you a comfortable cab with one of the best transmissions ever made coupled to enough power to move snow but not enough to burn Tranny up.
> But even better but more money is a 2002 or older dodge diesel. Sharpest turning radius, no torn driveline boots, strong body panels and Tranny will last if you put a good heat gauge on it and watch it and of coarse stop moving forward before you slam the foot feet in reverse. These things are tanks. Dana 70 rearend and Dana 60 front ends. It's front axles are same or bigger bigger than any ford or chevy rear axle. As far as diesel or gas, a diesel will use about 1/2 the fuel per hour than a gas so more expensive diesel still cheaper and the above mentioned diesels run forever.


Good to see someone else with some praise for the old 6.2. I have four of these as "dedicated plow trucks"-when it's not plowing season they see very little if any use. My experience has shown same as yours, generally using half the fuel of a gas pickup. However, maintenance cost can be higher so that needs to factor in.

I personally think it comes down to what works best for the individual/company. For me, it works better to use older trucks. We don't have a lot of need for a bunch of pickups in the summer and our summer work trucks don't fit well where we plow. Sure, I can understand the reasoning behind running new (or near new) trucks and trading up every couple years but the numbers don't work for us to do that.

All truck require maintenance, new or old. All trucks break down. As said before the key is having a plan when breakdowns happen. In my experience, the older trucks are less costly both in parts and labor to fix than newer ones.

Someone had mentioned the time spent fixing up older trucks and whether people were factoring that in or not. I think this needs to be figured in to the cost of the truck. I happen to enjoy working on trucks and do a lot of the work on weekends or evenings in the warmer months. For me it's a way to give my hobby a purpose rather than just spending time and money working on something purely for recreation. I know not everybody feels this way about working on things, but it works for me.

As for the creature comforts the newer trucks have over older ones, the most comfortable truck I have plowed in is my 84 k30 that has a seat from a late 90s Ram. Easy enough upgrade that makes a major difference in driver comfort. What about power windows? Do you really need them to plow? In the case of a truck you drive year round it's nice, but as I said mine see very little use outside of plowing.

I suppose this debate could go on just as long as which brand of truck is best arguments. Or who makes the best plow? It's all about what works for you.


----------



## Nero

Rat_Power_78;1907808 said:


> Good to see someone else with some praise for the old 6.2. I have four of these as "dedicated plow trucks"-when it's not plowing season they see very little if any use. My experience has shown same as yours, generally using half the fuel of a gas pickup. However, maintenance cost can be higher so that needs to factor in.
> 
> I personally think it comes down to what works best for the individual/company. For me, it works better to use older trucks. We don't have a lot of need for a bunch of pickups in the summer and our summer work trucks don't fit well where we plow. Sure, I can understand the reasoning behind running new (or near new) trucks and trading up every couple years but the numbers don't work for us to do that.
> 
> All truck require maintenance, new or old. All trucks break down. As said before the key is having a plan when breakdowns happen. In my experience, the older trucks are less costly both in parts and labor to fix than newer ones.
> 
> Someone had mentioned the time spent fixing up older trucks and whether people were factoring that in or not. I think this needs to be figured in to the cost of the truck. I happen to enjoy working on trucks and do a lot of the work on weekends or evenings in the warmer months. For me it's a way to give my hobby a purpose rather than just spending time and money working on something purely for recreation. I know not everybody feels this way about working on things, but it works for me.
> 
> As for the creature comforts the newer trucks have over older ones, the most comfortable truck I have plowed in is my 84 k30 that has a seat from a late 90s Ram. Easy enough upgrade that makes a major difference in driver comfort. What about power windows? Do you really need them to plow? In the case of a truck you drive year round it's nice, but as I said mine see very little use outside of plowing.
> 
> I suppose this debate could go on just as long as which brand of truck is best arguments. Or who makes the best plow? It's all about what works for you.


Aren't those Ram seats great!


----------



## JDosch

I have always plowed with older square body straight axle Chevys. My trucks range in years from 78-86, and have NEVER left me stranded, even after 40+ hours of straight plowing.


----------



## Rat_Power_78

Nero;1907951 said:


> Aren't those Ram seats great!


Oddly enough it's more comfortable in an old Chevy than the identical seat is in my 99 dodge.


----------



## Nero

JDosch;1908162 said:


> I have always plowed with older square body straight axle Chevys. My trucks range in years from 78-86, and have NEVER left me stranded, even after 40+ hours of straight plowing.


Yes. I agree, that was all I plowed with myself was straight axle chev. 1970 to 1985 They worked well when I use them for 25+ years. Now I have the Dodge Rams with the straight axles for my fleet and I have no problem with them as well great trucks.

You can have those new trucks with those independent suspensions..LOL..just an SUV.


----------



## Nero

Rat_Power_78;1908164 said:


> Oddly enough it's more comfortable in an old Chevy than the identical seat is in my 99 dodge.


That's strange, the Dodges have coils on the front straight axle. In return creates more comfort then leaf springs on the old chevys.


----------



## Buswell Forest

Nero;1908466 said:


> Yes. I agree, that was all I plowed with myself was straight axle chev. 1970 to 1985 They worked well when I use them for 25+ years. Now I have the Dodge Rams with the straight axles for my fleet and I have no problem with them as well great trucks.
> 
> You can have those new trucks with those independent suspensions..LOL..just an SUV.


Ford Super Duties have solid front axles. My F250 is 10,000 lbs gvw, my F350 is a srw with 11,400 gvw. Go check the gvw of your mopars and Chevys.


----------



## maxwellp

"Someone had mentioned the time spent fixing up older trucks and whether people were factoring that in or not. I think this needs to be figured in to the cost of the truck. I happen to enjoy working on trucks and do a lot of the work on weekends or evenings in the warmer months. For me it's a way to give my hobby a purpose rather than just spending time and money working on something purely for recreation. I know not everybody feels this way about working on things, but it works for me. "


This is me for the most part. If I was not "playing with the trucks" I would have something that did not make money. But I do not agree that you need to add your own labor cost in to the cost of the truck. I only count money out the door, as in money paid out. This is because I do not turn down work to repair my trucks. So if I was not fixing them then I would be screwing off. I see it more as money saved. 

Case in point/ I just got a 07 Charger (76,000 miles) as my personal car to keep the tax man happy.
The person I got it from was selling it because they could not pay for a repair at the Dodge Dealer.
Timing chain.
Battery
Front strut tension arms
Stabilizer Links
$2996.46 
was the Invoice, ouch!!!!

Still needs two tires and Brakes all the way around.
I looked up all the Mopar parts they used And I could have done this job for myself for less than $800.
If I used after market parts $450

Brakes - Dealer said $800-1000 that is rotors and pads all around

I can get parts from Brakemotive in Chicago / 4 rotors and pads for 179.99 at the front door. Install in less than 2 hours. 

This is why I Drive older Trucks - Plus they are paid for when I buy them. No snow No problem


----------



## leigh

maxwellp;1908666 said:


> "Someone had mentioned the time spent fixing up older trucks and whether people were factoring that in or not. I think this needs to be figured in to the cost of the truck. I happen to enjoy working on trucks and do a lot of the work on weekends or evenings in the warmer months. For me it's a way to give my hobby a purpose rather than just spending time and money working on something purely for recreation. I know not everybody feels this way about working on things, but it works for me. "
> 
> This is me for the most part. If I was not "playing with the trucks" I would have something that did not make money. But I do not agree that you need to add your own labor cost in to the cost of the truck. I only count money out the door, as in money paid out. This is because I do not turn down work to repair my trucks. So if I was not fixing them then I would be screwing off. I see it more as money saved.
> 
> Case in point/ I just got a 07 Charger (76,000 miles) as my personal car to keep the tax man happy.
> The person I got it from was selling it because they could not pay for a repair at the Dodge Dealer.
> Timing chain.
> Battery
> Front strut tension arms
> Stabilizer Links
> $2996.46
> was the Invoice, ouch!!!!
> 
> Still needs two tires and Brakes all the way around.
> I looked up all the Mopar parts they used And I could have done this job for myself for less than $800.
> If I used after market parts $450
> 
> Brakes - Dealer said $800-1000 that is rotors and pads all around
> 
> I can get parts from Brakemotive in Chicago / 4 rotors and pads for 179.99 at the front door. Install in less than 2 hours.
> 
> This is why I Drive older Trucks - Plus they are paid for when I buy them. No snow No problem


Wish you lived next door to me! I could keep you busy and happy


----------



## Flawless440

I'm still stuck on the Lifetime Warranty, about to go MOPAR


----------



## leigh

After much thinking on this subject,pros and cons,I've decided to take on an older truck project! Can't decide which one to pull the trigger on ?


----------



## rjigto4oje

leigh;1908683 said:


> After much thinking on this subject,pros and cons,I've decided to take on an older truck project! Can't decide which one to pull the trigger on ?


I would pick the the one with the blade on it I believe its you 2nd pick lol


----------



## maxwellp

Flawless440;1908678 said:


> I'm still stuck on the Lifetime Warranty, about to go MOPAR


Have you asked a Ram Dealer about this? Did they give it to you in writing saying you can put a plow on it and use it and still have a Lifetime Warranty?
Did you tell them you are plow snow commercially?

I was told 12 months 12,000 miles. 
Look in the fine print. Any addition of non factory parts voids warranty / In so many words. 
The Dealer may tell you that it is covered, but with out it spelled out in writing it is worth nothing. 
Just saying be careful if the warranty is the reason you are going new. My Dealer says NO!!!


----------



## linckeil

JDosch;1908162 said:


> I have always plowed with older square body straight axle Chevys. My trucks range in years from 78-86, and have NEVER left me stranded, even after 40+ hours of straight plowing.


back when gm was still making real trucks.


----------



## plowguy43

Herm Witte;1906006 said:


> Do those of you restoring older trucks add in the value of your time?, and is the marketplace (ability or lack of ability to charge) a significant factor in deciding whether or not to restore a truck(s).


I personally do. On the other hand, I don't consider my truck "old" although in years it is. I feel like many of the people posting about new truck purchases are comparing their trucks to those trucks of the 80's or 70's. I bought my truck and drove it, no restoration needed. It needed maintenance items - the same ones that aren't covered under a warranty on a new truck - after about 6 months of use. Since then just oil and fuel.

After owning multiple Ram's (2nd and 3rd gens), I would not hesitate to buy another V10/Diesel 2nd Gen, or a HEMI/Diesel 3rd Gen. I'd probably stay clear of the 5.9 V8 2nd Gen because the 46RE is just weak. I also think the Ford 7.3/4R100 is a solid truck. A 99-03 7.3 is an excellent all around truck - Great power, holds a plow very well, great fuel mileage, cheap and easy to repair, comfortable, reliable.

My truck isn't that much different from a 2015, the doors and cab is the same, I can swap an entire interior over if I really wanted, I can even swap the entire suspension and axles onto my truck if I want the same ride and axle's as the newer trucks.


----------



## Nero

snocrete;1908732 said:


> well my di ck s bigger than yours, and my dad can beat up your dad ......are you sure your location shouldn't state "5.4yr old poopy diapered kid from river hills wisconsin"
> 
> hey now! How'd you get a pic of zeros...er...i mean....neros fleet?


fip....lol.....


----------



## Nero

Buswell Forest;1908575 said:


> Ford Super Duties have solid front axles. My F250 is 10,000 lbs gvw, my F350 is a srw with 11,400 gvw. Go check the gvw of your mopars and Chevys.


Buswell Forest, I stand corrected. They didn't ever change 250 and 350 on the newer trucks as you have mentioned here. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## Dogplow Dodge

leigh;1908683 said:


> After much thinking on this subject,pros and cons,I've decided to take on an older truck project! Can't decide which one to pull the trigger on ?


I'd have to pick the Green truck with the plow still attached. Those other trucks remind me too much of a bendy bus.

Besides..... Green is the new Silver...Thumbs Up


----------



## dwmaster

Buswell Forest;1908575 said:


> Ford Super Duties have solid front axles. My F250 is 10,000 lbs gvw, my F350 is a srw with 11,400 gvw. Go check the gvw of your mopars and Chevys.


Gvw doesn't really come into play when all your hauling is a 980 pound plow and a 1000 pound counterweight. The size of the axles and u-joints is what you want to look at, engine durability, and Transmision durability. I got pretty darn good at changing the spider gears in my 1986 ford front axle. Fords are a good plow truck if they can constantly get their motors to make it past 120,000 miles without major trouble which I think they have now.

As far as the Ram lifetime warranties, they were not offered on 2500 or 3500, only1500 and they were not suppose to have plows on them so depending on dealer??????


----------



## Nero

dwmaster;1909226 said:


> Gvw doesn't really come into play when all your hauling is a 980 pound plow and a 1000 pound counterweight. The size of the axles and u-joints is what you want to look at, engine durability, and Transmision durability. I got pretty darn good at changing the spider gears in my 1986 ford front axle. Fords are a good plow truck if they can constantly get their motors to make it past 120,000 miles without major trouble which I think they have now.
> 
> As far as the Ram lifetime warranties, they were not offered on 2500 or 3500, only1500 and they were not suppose to have plows on them so depending on dealer??????


Sound correct...A Life time warranty on a plow truck..wow. If that was the case I think I would just buy new.


----------



## Nero

Dogplow Dodge;1909103 said:


> I'd have to pick the Green truck with the plow still attached. Those other trucks remind me too much of a bendy bus.
> 
> Besides..... Green is the new Silver...Thumbs Up


yeah, Green truck. You could start your own cable program while in the works $$$$$ it's all a win-win.


----------



## Dogplow Dodge

Nero;1909589 said:


> yeah, Green truck. You could start your own cable program while in the works $$$$$ it's all a win-win.


That would be COOOL !Thumbs Up

I could fly the guys in from plowsite and do seated at the desk interviews about snow plowing .... I could be the next David Letterman, or Steven Colbert. I'd be relishing in all that money, fame, women breaking into my house pretending to be my wife ...

That would be the life, man ! thanks for the ideas....


----------



## leigh

Dogplow Dodge;1909666 said:


> That would be COOOL !Thumbs Up
> 
> I could fly the guys in from plowsite and do seated at the desk interviews about snow plowing .... I could be the next David Letterman, or Steven Colbert. I'd be relishing in all that money, fame, women breaking into my house pretending to be my wife ...
> 
> That would be the life, man ! thanks for the ideas....


Don't forget you'll need a sidekick.Comic relief,bird maybe?


----------



## BUFF

leigh;1909678 said:


> Don't forget you'll need a sidekick.Comic relief,bird maybe?


As long as his beak was taped shut.....


----------



## Gman1200hd

So for all the guys who like new trucks how's that working out for you this winter so far? We have been out a few times but only had enough snow one time to do the full route plus it's been wet and muddy so can do any lawn work or get into the fields or woods to do any tree work sure glad I don't have a big new truck payment to have to worry aboutmy stuff may be older but at least it's only cost me a little bit of insurance to sit.


----------



## Jguck25

Gman1200hd;1911078 said:


> So for all the guys who like new trucks how's that working out for you this winter so far? We have been out a few times but only had enough snow one time to do the full route plus it's been wet and muddy so can do any lawn work or get into the fields or woods to do any tree work sure glad I don't have a big new truck payment to have to worry aboutmy stuff may be older but at least it's only cost me a little bit of insurance to sit.


Seasonal contracts mixed in with per push. I make more money if it doesn't snow.


----------



## Flawless440

Love my new truck.... Payment is $20 higher than the truck i traded in..

No work sucks.... No seasonals here.. Been quit


----------



## Buswell Forest

Gman1200hd;1911078 said:


> So for all the guys who like new trucks how's that working out for you this winter so far? We have been out a few times but only had enough snow one time to do the full route plus it's been wet and muddy so can do any lawn work or get into the fields or woods to do any tree work sure glad I don't have a big new truck payment to have to worry aboutmy stuff may be older but at least it's only cost me a little bit of insurance to sit.


So far, I have billed out about $7,000 all per push / sanding.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Don't mind my big truck payments at all. Everything is seasonal.

Some years you win, some years they win. In the end, I can budget and they can budget, both evenly.


----------



## Nero

I just can't keep up with all my invoices lol..


----------



## Ryank

I have one of each and honestly they both have their pro's and cons. my (old) truck is a 97 7.3 diesel and honestly i can say and i have receipts that add up to over 550 a month in maintenance/repairs since i bought it in april of 2011. that includes no labor which i pay to everything done except the fuel filter. I bought the truck for 3500 with 238,000 miles and have done a decent amount of repairs/maintenance and now finally at 292,000 miles and being a plow truck its whole life the fenders will need replacing this coming april and i'll probably put a rust free radiator support in it, I used the truck with a 300 dollar fisher mm1 8' hd straight blade i bought not working 7 months after i bought the truck from the same guy. it needed a head light harness which cost 130 from fisher so i bought it and installed it and did 65 driveways with that truck for 2 years and missed one storm from a failed transmission which i really couldn't even complain about because that truck was always overloaded and towing more then it should have been. I literally would try to break the truck towing so much weight up hills wide open throttle, bed would be loaded over the cab all the way across the bed with wood, towing a 6000lb stump grinder or chipper 7 days a week or landscape trailer and mowers....and now it tows a 7x14 heavy duty dump trailer that weighs 6500lbs empty with 4' high sides all the way back loaded 1-2' over the top with pine, oak and other stuff, truck has never left me stranded. and always finished all 65 driveways every storm except the one time it was down getting the trans rebuilt...and the 17 year old plow never skipped a beat except for the one time the triangular lift arm broke because it worn half way through from the chain sitting and chaffing in one spot for 17 years... but honestly i would say that is my fault for not swapping it out for a new one before it broke since i was well aware of it. my new truck is a 2010 ford f350 crew cab short bed, loaded to the max, sunroof, back up camera, heated mirrors, power folding, and extending mirrors the ones that cost 1300 each from ford if you hit it on something lol. factory navigation, factory 9 speaker sound system, black leather interior, keypad entry you name its got it, no options spared for 2010, of course in 2011 the trucks had more features but up until 2010 this truck was it. anyways, I bought a brand new plow setup for this truck after looking for a used setup and a new setup only costing 1000 more. anyways this truck is at 113,000 miles and my older truck is at 292,000 miles both start up fine even down to 0 degrees, and both crank out 160* heat which i measured with a heat gun, but my newer truck has heated seats, heated mirrors, a lot more leg room, the seat actually reclines, it looks a lot nicer, stops better, it puts down 550hp at the wheels, has electronic 4wd which is much nicer, can get live weather right on the nav if i subscribe to it, can even watch movies on the navigation screen while eating lunch or on standby waiting in a lot. but the 97 can plow equally as well as the 2010 but not as comfortable, not as powerful. but i own the 7.3 and i use both trucks 12 months out of the year so not one of them was bought just for snow plowing, so paying 600 a month for a truck plus maintaining it is really no big deal.... I will say older plows are extremely reliable but i think new plows are equally as reliable....my old plow in the picture is a 2012 and my new plow not pictured is a 2014 stainless xv2 for my 6.4...


----------



## linckeil

Ryank;1913195 said:


> I have one of each and honestly they both have their pro's and cons. my (old) truck is a 97 7.3 diesel and honestly i can say and i have receipts that add up to over 550 a month in maintenance/repairs since i bought it in april of 2011. that includes no labor which i pay to everything done except the fuel filter. I bought the truck for 3500 with 238,000 miles and have done a decent amount of repairs/maintenance and now finally at 292,000 miles and being a plow truck its whole life the fenders will need replacing this coming april and i'll probably put a rust free radiator support in it, I used the truck with a 300 dollar fisher mm1 8' hd straight blade i bought not working 7 months after i bought the truck from the same guy. it needed a head light harness which cost 130 from fisher so i bought it and installed it and did 65 driveways with that truck for 2 years and missed one storm from a failed transmission which i really couldn't even complain about because that truck was always overloaded and towing more then it should have been. I literally would try to break the truck towing so much weight up hills wide open throttle, bed would be loaded over the cab all the way across the bed with wood, towing a 6000lb stump grinder or chipper 7 days a week or landscape trailer and mowers....and now it tows a 7x14 heavy duty dump trailer that weighs 6500lbs empty with 4' high sides all the way back loaded 1-2' over the top with pine, oak and other stuff, truck has never left me stranded. and always finished all 65 driveways every storm except the one time it was down getting the trans rebuilt...and the 17 year old plow never skipped a beat except for the one time the triangular lift arm broke because it worn half way through from the chain sitting and chaffing in one spot for 17 years... but honestly i would say that is my fault for not swapping it out for a new one before it broke since i was well aware of it. my new truck is a 2010 ford f350 crew cab short bed, loaded to the max, sunroof, back up camera, heated mirrors, power folding, and extending mirrors the ones that cost 1300 each from ford if you hit it on something lol. factory navigation, factory 9 speaker sound system, black leather interior, keypad entry you name its got it, no options spared for 2010, of course in 2011 the trucks had more features but up until 2010 this truck was it. anyways, I bought a brand new plow setup for this truck after looking for a used setup and a new setup only costing 1000 more. anyways this truck is at 113,000 miles and my older truck is at 292,000 miles both start up fine even down to 0 degrees, and both crank out 160* heat which i measured with a heat gun, but my newer truck has heated seats, heated mirrors, a lot more leg room, the seat actually reclines, it looks a lot nicer, stops better, it puts down 550hp at the wheels, has electronic 4wd which is much nicer, can get live weather right on the nav if i subscribe to it, can even watch movies on the navigation screen while eating lunch or on standby waiting in a lot. but the 97 can plow equally as well as the 2010 but not as comfortable, not as powerful. but i own the 7.3 and i use both trucks 12 months out of the year so not one of them was bought just for snow plowing, so paying 600 a month for a truck plus maintaining it is really no big deal.... I will say older plows are extremely reliable but i think new plows are equally as reliable....my old plow in the picture is a 2012 and my new plow not pictured is a 2014 stainless xv2 for my 6.4...


#1 - paragraphs can be your friend.

#2 - you bought the '97 in april 2011 and have put OVER $550 a month into it in parts since then. thats 44 months that have passed since you bought it. so thats at least $24,200 - and that is only parts, no labor, and is not including the $3500 purchase price. is my math right? am i understanding you correctly? if so, what parts would add up to that tally? and why in the world would you continue to dump such insane money into a 15+ year old truck?

#3 - a near MINT 95-97 F350 powerstroke can be had for $10,000-$15,000. At the rate you're going, you can have 3 of them by the time you get your truck in similiar condition, and by then it will have over 300,000 miles.


----------



## leigh

linckeil;1913455 said:


> #1 - paragraphs can be your friend.
> 
> #2 - you bought the '97 in april 2011 and have put OVER $550 a month into it in parts since then. thats 44 months that have passed since you bought it. so thats at least $24,200 - and that is only parts, no labor, and is not including the $3500 purchase price. is my math right? am i understanding you correctly? if so, what parts would add up to that tally? and why in the world would you continue to dump such insane money into a 15+ year old truck?
> 
> #3 - a near MINT 95-97 F350 powerstroke can be had for $10,000-$15,000. At the rate you're going, you can have 3 of them by the time you get your truck in similiar condition, and by then it will have over 300,000 miles.


I'm quite impressed! I couldn't quite figure out what was what! Reading your "cliffs notes"helped


----------



## Flawless440

All i herd was Ford diesels suck... LOL.... I know this 1st hand


----------



## 90plow

If you put $550 a month into that truck that means it's time for a new truck. Cost of repairs is more than cost of replacement. I have spent about $1,200 on my f250 and about $2,600 on my gmc this year. Those prices reflect parts and most labor any that wasn't counted was my own. It does get old but if I divide the cost over 12 months it's about 200 a month for two trucks. Pretty cheap IMO. And I have no payments paid less than $14000 for both.


----------



## Nero

What 90plow said.


----------



## scottr

Not me!!! I'm going out with the old and into the new. The 52 power wagon has served me well for 25 years.. The lack of power steering is getting to my old shoulders.. Sooooo, the big upgrade to a 93 Bronco ( kinda) Thumbs Up 
Like others have spoke about here, I too work / build on my rigs after work hours and weekends, so I don't count my hours against the price of this newer plow truck. I'll have about 12K into this new (to me) plow truck, and I'll sell my old 52 for more. 
This way of doing things likely only works for small time plow guys like me, but that's what makes us all individuals on this site ehh?


----------



## scottr

And, onto the new. Not done yet. Will have a blizzard 810 up front and a home made pull plow out back.


----------



## Nero

Blue tanks in the back of a bed?


----------



## scottr

NOS........... I run central hydraulics on my rigs, so I needed to build a hydraulic tank, so I got creative and used an old halon bottle ( sch. 40 ) and mocked it up like the old girl has " the spray".


----------



## Robinson_Cnst

scottr;1913915 said:


> Not me!!! I'm going out with the old and into the new. The 52 power wagon has served me well for 25 years.. The lack of power steering is getting to my old shoulders.. Sooooo, the big upgrade to a 93 Bronco ( kinda) Thumbs Up
> Like others have spoke about here, I too work / build on my rigs after work hours and weekends, so I don't count my hours against the price of this newer plow truck. I'll have about 12K into this new (to me) plow truck, and I'll sell my old 52 for more.
> This way of doing things likely only works for small time plow guys like me, but that's what makes us all individuals on this site ehh?


I would add hydraulic steering to that old iron work horse and keep pushing. Those are the best work trucks ever made.


----------



## allagashpm

I love the bronco. 
I have a 2011 with a payment and a warranty. I was much more stressed with my older truck. I know things can go wrong with a newer one as well but it is less likely.
my question is are you guys not driving newer trucks just because of the payment? What if you could pay for it up front? I will have mine paid off early then does it have the allure of the older paid for trucks? Just wondering. And as for the payment and no snow I budget for winter and make sure I have enough to pay my bills, snow money just makes it easier


----------



## linckeil

allagashpm;1913968 said:


> I love the bronco.
> I have a 2011 with a payment and a warranty. I was much more stressed with my older truck. I know things can go wrong with a newer one as well but it is less likely.
> my question is are you guys not driving newer trucks just because of the payment? What if you could pay for it up front? I will have mine paid off early then does it have the allure of the older paid for trucks? Just wondering. And as for the payment and no snow I budget for winter and make sure I have enough to pay my bills, snow money just makes it easier


i can't speak for anyone else, but the "allure" for me is saving money and increasing the bottom line. i could go out today and buy outright a brand new truck with no payments, but that'll still put a $40,000'ish hole in my account. so either take out $700 a month for the next 5 years or take it all at once - either way it's a lot of money.

older trucks make sense to me because i have the knowledge, ability, and equipment to make them as reliable as anything new. working on cars is also a hobby. a key component is knowing what to look for when buying used. i can find a real nice used truck for around $8,000 and spend a few weekends to get it into shape. after that it's pretty much just routine maintainance that any vehicle will need - new or old.

now if you know next to nothing about vehicle repair and own nothing but a harbor frieght socket set and think that if you buy an older truck you will be saving piles of cash - you cannot be any more wrong. not only will you be dumping money into it, but you will also be loosing money while it's down.

the topic has been pretty well beaten to death at this point. i think the moral of the story is older trucks make sense for some people, but don't for others. it's really that simple.


----------



## Ryank

linckeil;1913455 said:


> #1 - paragraphs can be your friend.
> 
> #2 - you bought the '97 in april 2011 and have put OVER $550 a month into it in parts since then. thats 44 months that have passed since you bought it. so thats at least $24,200 - and that is only parts, no labor, and is not including the $3500 purchase price. is my math right? am i understanding you correctly? if so, what parts would add up to that tally? and why in the world would you continue to dump such insane money into a 15+ year old truck?
> 
> #3 - a near MINT 95-97 F350 powerstroke can be had for $10,000-$15,000. At the rate you're going, you can have 3 of them by the time you get your truck in similiar condition, and by then it will have over 300,000 miles.


not every single month...but from april of 2011 to the end of 2013 it needed a decent amount, and it wasn't broken down every month it happened every few months and a lot of it was me being picky and doing stuff for preventative maintenance. The first month I owned it, it needed a passenger side caliper, so I replaced both calipers and brake pads, maybe even rotors, then a month later it needed a trans, then a fuel pump because it was leaking, then an icp, and a crank sensor, then a rear fuel tank because that was leaking, then a new oil pan, new trans lines, new rear main seal, glow plugs, glow plug harnesses, block heater cable and plug and fuel heater so I wouldn't have any issues in cold weather. another new fuel pump because it was leaking a little oil, then new u joints, all around, then new steering components. Most recently a crankshaft sensor and high pressure powering steering line. all parts are straight from ford except the trans. I have 5,000 in trans in the truck so far and the one in it now is under warranty another year still... I keep tossing the idea of selling this truck to get another 6.4 work truck but its been pretty reliable and i've replaced most of it...and despite what it has cost me, it has still made me a lot of money. some days it's put 3k in my pocket, actually its done that quite a bit...that's why i keep it around...


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Ryank;1914615 said:


> not every single month...but from april of 2011 to the end of 2013 it needed a decent amount, and it wasn't broken down every month it happened every few months and a lot of it was me being picky and doing stuff for preventative maintenance. The first month I owned it, it needed a passenger side caliper, so I replaced both calipers and brake pads, maybe even rotors, then a month later it needed a trans, then a fuel pump because it was leaking, then an icp, and a crank sensor, then a rear fuel tank because that was leaking, then a new oil pan, new trans lines, new rear main seal, glow plugs, glow plug harnesses, block heater cable and plug and fuel heater so I wouldn't have any issues in cold weather. another new fuel pump because it was leaking a little oil, then new u joints, all around, then new steering components. Most recently a crankshaft sensor and high pressure powering steering line. all parts are straight from ford except the trans. I have 5,000 in trans in the truck so far and the one in it now is under warranty another year still... I keep tossing the idea of selling this truck to get another 6.4 work truck but its been pretty reliable and i've replaced most of it...and despite what it has cost me, it has still made me a lot of money. some days it's put 3k in my pocket, actually its done that quite a bit...that's why i keep it around...


That thing would have gone down the road long ago...

And please explain how it has in one day put 3K in your pocket? That's some damn good profit margins there...


----------



## MK97

John_DeereGreen;1914672 said:


> That thing would have gone down the road long ago...
> 
> And please explain how it has in one day put 3K in your pocket? That's some damn good profit margins there...


I'm curious too since by his figures he dumped $16,000 into it. So to MAKE $3k he would have to have a $19k day. Unless he's using bird math...


----------



## Ryank

John_DeereGreen;1914672 said:


> That thing would have gone down the road long ago...
> 
> And please explain how it has in one day put 3K in your pocket? That's some damn good profit margins there...


landscape install, and yes profits are great for those.


----------



## Ryank

MK97;1914682 said:


> I'm curious too since by his figures he dumped $16,000 into it. So to MAKE $3k he would have to have a $19k day. Unless he's using bird math...


must be this bird math you are talking about, because as far i'm aware, I didn't put that money into the truck in one day i did it over 24 months which does sound pretty crazy to keep it leak free and 100% mechanically sound and working perfect, but 2014 I haven't done anything major to it, just a crankshaft position sensor, vehicle speed sensor, and high pressure power steering line, and new tires. So to take expenses from other months and years and combine that into one day seems a bit odd, i'm not sure about you but i have good months and bad months as far as profits and expenses go, winter time my expenses are very low, but so are my profits generally unless we get a lot of snow.


----------



## MK97

Ryank;1915315 said:


> must be this bird math you are talking about, because as far i'm aware, I didn't put that money into the truck in one day i did it over 24 months which does sound pretty crazy to keep it leak free and 100% mechanically sound and working perfect, but 2014 I haven't done anything major to it, just a crankshaft position sensor, vehicle speed sensor, and high pressure power steering line, and new tires. So to take expenses from other months and years and combine that into one day seems a bit odd, i'm not sure about you but i have good months and bad months as far as profits and expenses go, winter time my expenses are very low, but so are my profits generally unless we get a lot of snow.


Apparently it is bird math. Since you can't claim profit when you're in the hole on the truck. Just because it wasn't all at one time doesn't negate all the money dumped into the truck.

I was into one of my trucks for $3500 last year, so no profit was made until it produced $3500 worth of work before I could ever claim any profit. You have to pay off your stuff before you can claim you made money off of it. So your money pit needs to do $16000 worth of work before you can claim any kind of profit.


----------



## leigh

This sounds like the path many of us have been through, repairs come slowly and you figure gotta keep fixing because now I've got a more reliable truck and way too much $$ invested,then more things need to be replaced and before you know it you've passed the point of no return. Sorta like to much time invested in a bad relationship lol


----------



## MK97

leigh;1915443 said:


> This sounds like the path many of us have been through, repairs come slowly and you figure gotta keep fixing because now I've got a more reliable truck and way too much $$ invested,then more things need to be replaced and before you know it you've passed the point of no return. Sorta like to much time invested in a bad relationship lol


Fortunately I have friends smarter than me that helped me figure out when something becomes a money pit and need to send it down the road. Now if only I could easily recognize the same signs for a relationship, haha.

My 96 completely paid for itself last year, plus a small profit. So now cost are minimal, think I spent $200 on maintenance this year and most of that was a full tune up. Because it's been a tank I've decided to keep it as a second truck. $5000 is my line in the sand on this truck as far as what I'll be okay putting into it. For that truck, that would cover a new engine and trans if such a thing were to happen. I've considered selling it and buying a cleaner version of the same truck, but I know all the issues on this one. So makes more sense to keep that one that has proven itself over possible new headaches.


----------



## Nero

Yet..no snow but 100% debt free and loving it. money still in the bank. Hasn't moved since I last told you lol...Financial Freedom! Feels Good. A lesson that most Americans should look into.


----------



## scottr

Dave Ramsey Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up ( stay out of debt )


----------



## Ryank

MK97;1915394 said:


> Apparently it is bird math. Since you can't claim profit when you're in the hole on the truck. Just because it wasn't all at one time doesn't negate all the money dumped into the truck.
> 
> I was into one of my trucks for $3500 last year, so no profit was made until it produced $3500 worth of work before I could ever claim any profit. You have to pay off your stuff before you can claim you made money off of it. So your money pit needs to do $16000 worth of work before you can claim any kind of profit.


ok so for example if i'm into my truck for 7,000 one year and it helps me make 80,000 just that one year, then another 100k the next year but i put another 9,000 into it it's probably safe to say it does still make money correct?



leigh;1915443 said:


> This sounds like the path many of us have been through, repairs come slowly and you figure gotta keep fixing because now I've got a more reliable truck and way too much $$ invested,then more things need to be replaced and before you know it you've passed the point of no return. Sorta like to much time invested in a bad relationship lol


Yes or sell it for 5-6,000 dollars if i can get that much and then have to dish out another 12k either in cash or take out a loan for a 2008 f350 with a plow and only 50,000 miles which should be trouble free for another 3-4 years before it needs anything... and i happen to know where two of these identical trucks are still currently being used by a guy i used to work who sells or trades his trucks around 50,000 miles. the guy never owned a vehicle with over 50,000 miles since the 1980's



Nero;1915523 said:


> Yet..no snow but 100% debt free and loving it. money still in the bank. Hasn't moved since I last told you lol...Financial Freedom! Feels Good. A lesson that most Americans should look into.


that's the reasoning behind keeping my 7.3 it's paid for and everything i buy for it all repairs are all done with cash. until December of 2013 it was my only truck, and it paid for its self the first month i owned it and every month there after except for 1 or 2 slow months each winter. I actually have no choice to use cash because i'm still young, my credit is young too so most everything i buy has been cash until i bought my second truck, but then everything i have done to that has been paid for with cash, and that's how my business operates 365 days a year. Dave Ramsey books are a good read!


----------



## MK97

Ryank;1915936 said:


> ok so for example if i'm into my truck for 7,000 one year and it helps me make 80,000 just that one year, then another 100k the next year but i put another 9,000 into it it's probably safe to say it does still make money correct?
> 
> Yes or sell it for 5-6,000 dollars if i can get that much and then have to dish out another 12k either in cash or take out a loan for a 2008 f350 with a plow and only 50,000 miles which should be trouble free for another 3-4 years before it needs anything... and i happen to know where two of these identical trucks are still currently being used by a guy i used to work who sells or trades his trucks around 50,000 miles. the guy never owned a vehicle with over 50,000 miles since the 1980's
> 
> that's the reasoning behind keeping my 7.3 it's paid for and everything i buy for it all repairs are all done with cash. until December of 2013 it was my only truck, and it paid for its self the first month i owned it and every month there after except for 1 or 2 slow months each winter. I actually have no choice to use cash because i'm still young, my credit is young too so most everything i buy has been cash until i bought my second truck, but then everything i have done to that has been paid for with cash, and that's how my business operates 365 days a year. Dave Ramsey books are a good read!


Yes the truck does make money when you use completely made up numbers. You fail to understand you need to make back what you have into your equipment before you can ever use the word profit. Once you've made $16k since all those repairs then you can use the word profit. Not before.

There is zero chance of finding a 08 with 50k miles for $18k. I'm shopping for one now and have yet to see one of these unicorns.

Ramsey is okay in moderation. You can't do everything in cash for life. Going to be pissed when you go to buy a house at 30, and find out you have a 450 FICO because you have no credit.


----------



## jimbo64

Congratulations on being successful so young. You will find though that paying cash does not establish credit, in fact it actually does you more harm than good. A person is much better off to have a credit card(s) and a loan and be paying them responsibly then to pay with cash.
I'm probably jealous that your one truck has made you $180,000. in just two years , less of course the $16,000. in expenses.


----------



## leigh

Just a side note. look up "profit",it doesn't kick in once you cover the costs of repairs and/or truck payments.We would all be depressed to see our actual profit,if any lol


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Ryank;1915311 said:


> landscape install, and yes profits are great for those.


Humor me, and explain how one truck is responsible for 3K in profits, in ONE DAY on a landscape install.

I can't wait to hear the explanation on this one.

By the way, what is your definition of "profit?"


----------



## MK97

John_DeereGreen;1916032 said:


> Humor me, and explain how one truck is responsible for 3K in profits, in ONE DAY on a landscape install.
> 
> I can't wait to hear the explanation on this one.
> 
> By the way, what is your definition of "profit?"


I'm guessing his definition of profit is "whatever I finds, I keeps".


----------



## John_DeereGreen

MK97;1916101 said:


> I'm guessing his definition of profit is "whatever I finds, I keeps".


I'm thinking so as well. A lot of people not so much in this industry but in lawn care and landscape maintenance seem to think that there's so much money in it. I have a news flash, there's not. If your business's TRUE margins on lawn care and landscape maintenance are above 15% you're doing really really well.

Installs for us average around 30%. I'd love to see a 1 or 2 man crew do a 10K install in 1 day. From start to finish, because that's what he's saying, in 1 day it "profited" 3K. Meaning he had 7K in a job. 7K/.7 (giving 30% margin) is 10K.

People need to go to business school 101 before they do this. It's why so many fail. Just because there's money in the bank doesn't mean there's profit, and just because you got 6K out of a job and only paid 3K for labor and materials doesn't mean you profited 3K. I wish it were like that. There's a little thing called overhead, and it's a real pain in the ass.

I think I get the Oomkes award for thread derailment on this one...


----------



## Flawless440

John_DeereGreen;1916146 said:


> I'm thinking so as well. A lot of people not so much in this industry but in lawn care and landscape maintenance seem to think that there's so much money in it. I have a news flash, there's not. If your business's TRUE margins on lawn care and landscape maintenance are above 15% you're doing really really well.
> 
> Installs for us average around 30%. I'd love to see a 1 or 2 man crew do a 10K install in 1 day. From start to finish, because that's what he's saying, in 1 day it "profited" 3K. Meaning he had 7K in a job. 7K/.7 (giving 30% margin) is 10K.
> 
> People need to go to business school 101 before they do this. It's why so many fail. Just because there's money in the bank doesn't mean there's profit, and just because you got 6K out of a job and only paid 3K for labor and materials doesn't mean you profited 3K. I wish it were like that. There's a little thing called overhead, and it's a real pain in the ass.
> 
> I think I get the Oomkes award for thread derailment on this one...


I 2nd all that....

I bid my Hardscape/Softscape installs between 40%-50% above cost.. After project completion your around 30%, sometimes 40% profit..

Commercial Maintenance is bad.. I shoot to bid 20%-30% and my closing rate is low.. Can't beleave the low bids, Brickman is around 5%... WTF????

Good Post.... Rookies need to hear it


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Flawless440;1916170 said:


> I 2nd all that....
> 
> I bid my Hardscape/Softscape installs between 40%-50% above cost.. After project completion your around 30%, sometimes 40% profit..
> 
> Commercial Maintenance is bad.. I shoot to bid 20%-30% and my closing rate is low.. Can't beleave the low bids, Brickman is around 5%... WTF????
> 
> Good Post.... Rookies need to hear it


Our commercial maintenance is right around 15%. It was 5-6% until we got away from weekly mowing.

5% sucks, but on Brickman's annual gross, it's still a lot lot of money, and they're profitable and growing. I know you lost a **** ton of work to them, sucks they come in and under bid by that much just because they're willing to make less margin on more work.


----------



## MK97

John_DeereGreen;1916146 said:


> I'm thinking so as well. A lot of people not so much in this industry but in lawn care and landscape maintenance seem to think that there's so much money in it. I have a news flash, there's not. If your business's TRUE margins on lawn care and landscape maintenance are above 15% you're doing really really well.
> 
> Installs for us average around 30%. I'd love to see a 1 or 2 man crew do a 10K install in 1 day. From start to finish, because that's what he's saying, in 1 day it "profited" 3K. Meaning he had 7K in a job. 7K/.7 (giving 30% margin) is 10K.
> 
> People need to go to business school 101 before they do this. It's why so many fail. Just because there's money in the bank doesn't mean there's profit, and just because you got 6K out of a job and only paid 3K for labor and materials doesn't mean you profited 3K. I wish it were like that. There's a little thing called overhead, and it's a real pain in the ass.
> 
> I think I get the Oomkes award for thread derailment on this one...


I don't know about that. It's a derailment, but a very informative one. 
Overhead is key when it comes to make or break(broke), and spend about as much time figuring that as I do on the work.

Brinkman is a very big version of the guy doing $10 mows. They work on volume over fair pricing.


----------



## Ryank

MK97;1915947 said:


> Yes the truck does make money when you use completely made up numbers. You fail to understand you need to make back what you have into your equipment before you can ever use the word profit. Once you've made $16k since all those repairs then you can use the word profit. Not before.
> 
> There is zero chance of finding a 08 with 50k miles for $18k. I'm shopping for one now and have yet to see one of these unicorns.
> 
> Ramsey is okay in moderation. You can't do everything in cash for life. Going to be pissed when you go to buy a house at 30, and find out you have a 450 FICO because you have no credit.


see below about credit....my credit isn't perfect but my trans union credit score should be right around 700. I have had a credit card since i turned 18, with no cosigners, the reason I bought everything cash is because neither of my parents would co-sign for me to buy anything, so if i wanted something i had to work hard save my money and buy it with cash and this started from the age of 12, 14 years later it's still works ok, and i forget to use credit a lot of the time and just end up using my debit card. And i plan to buy a piece of property this spring or summer hopefully, depending on how much profit my taxes show again, I already talked to a few mortgage companies and according to them I'm right on track to have my dream house done by the time I'm 30. As for the 08 6.4 with 50k for 18k... I used to sit in the trucks 5 days a week since they were bought new, while I did my own stuff part time as a hobby. My old boss buys new trucks every 5-6 years and never keeps any trucks past 50,000 miles they get driven 10,000 miles per year maximum.... and they are maintained with an open check book, and everything is done on time, also they each have a stainless 9'6" xv1 plow that go with them. they are matching trucks both f350 regular cab dually, cab and chassis with flat beds on them. you probably won't find them for sale because my old boss is still using them. unless he traded one in and upgraded to another 6.7 powerstroke, which he already has 2 of.



jimbo64;1916016 said:


> Congratulations on being successful so young. You will find though that paying cash does not establish credit, in fact it actually does you more harm than good. A person is much better off to have a credit card(s) and a loan and be paying them responsibly then to pay with cash.
> I'm probably jealous that your one truck has made you $180,000. in just two years , less of course the $16,000. in expenses.


I wouldn't say i'm successful yet, but i'm headed in that direction.

the 180,000 figure was an example as it said in my post...

haha I didn't actually have any profit the first 2 years of business, my expenses like any new business were sky high for the first 2 years, they have settled down some but still high. I'm well aware of credit, I have had and currently have every type of credit possible except a mortgage. I had an installment loan for dirt bike that cost 1850 dollar brand new, financed the entire thing, paid it off in 2.5 years instead of 5 payments were 49.99 a month... Capital one sent me a credit card offer for my 18th birthday and I filled it out and sent it back, and have had that card a mastercard and a discover card since i was 18. I currently have an installment loan for my dump trailer and landscape trailer and December 2013 I finally got my first auto loan, which being 25 at the time and self employed, no cosigner ever for anything didn't make it easy.



leigh;1916019 said:


> Just a side note. look up "profit",it doesn't kick in once you cover the costs of repairs and/or truck payments.We would all be depressed to see our actual profit,if any lol


i'm well aware, my expenses have been 16-50k a year since 2011 which was my first year in business, before that I did it as a hobby and i started doing that at 12, i'm now 26. I think i have an idea of how it works. They started at 16k and have since gone up to 50k for 2012, around 30k for 2013 and i haven't added everything up for 2014 but i'd guess 2014 they are probably around 25k since i haven't bought anything major this year. I was spending a consistent 10k a year in gas in diesel with 1 truck, and one lawn mower for 3yrs



MK97;1916101 said:


> I'm guessing his definition of profit is "whatever I finds, I keeps".


my definition of profit is: the money left over after all expenses are paid, that includes taxes, which for me are about 24%. technically i should take a pay check from my business as well, but right now i'm in my early years, and my business is setup as a dba/sole proprietor so i don't actually give myself a paycheck yet, i just take as i need, and i live a very minimal lifestyle for now...

expenses are; anything that costs you money to do business. so insurances, a cell phone, clothing, foot wear, jackets, hats, gloves, socks, a computer you bought, the internet you use to email your customers invoices if you choose to do so, a cell phone, the cell phone service, insurances, gas, diesel, propane, tires, brakes, taxes you pay on your property and business for the town you operate out of, registering any vehicles used for business use, and the list goes on.


----------



## Nero

Well done in every way.


----------



## Ryank

90plow;1913711 said:


> If you put $550 a month into that truck that means it's time for a new truck. Cost of repairs is more than cost of replacement. I have spent about $1,200 on my f250 and about $2,600 on my gmc this year. Those prices reflect parts and most labor any that wasn't counted was my own. It does get old but if I divide the cost over 12 months it's about 200 a month for two trucks. Pretty cheap IMO. And I have no payments paid less than $14000 for both.


you realize a new truck at 0 percent interest if you qualify is still going to be close to 600 or maybe even 650 a month depending on how much it is...a loaded platinum crew cab short bed ford 350 gas truck is about 50,000 out the door. that's 50,000 then you lose 10,000 as soon as you drive it off the lot, and you still owe the 50, so unless your business is making a lot of money, how does it make sense to buy a new truck instead of fixing an old truck.

even if that old truck has 16,000 into from two bad years i'd rather spend the 16,000 cash and not have any payments then spend 50,000 and have my cash tied up in payments every month.... Cash flow 101.... now if a something like a one of those little toro 2 cycle snow blowers, some how blows a motor and its going to cost 300 to have it fixed and a new one is only 600 then I could see buying a new one.... or a string trimmer broke a driveshaft and it's going to 175 to fix it, plus the clutch needs to be replaced too which is another 30 dollars and new one is 300, i would just buy a new one at that point too. but if a truck needs 500 dollars of parts one month then nothing for 4 months then 3,000 for a trans in the middle of winter with 4 storms coming up the next week and you clear $2,000 each storm because you hustle hard and have 55 driveways but that 3,000 puts you up to 16,000 you really would go out and buy a new truck over spending another 3,000 on the new trans which comes with a 3yr/50,000 mile parts and labor warranty....because i sure as hell wouldn't...


----------



## jimbo64

If I had to put $16,000. in a almost 20 year old truck over a two year period I would get rid of that truck and look for something a lot newer. Unless you are capable of doing all the work yourself and have the time it just doesn't make any sense ( to me) to hang onto that old truck. It's a money pit !


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Justify it however you want to, but putting 16K into a 300000 mile 96 model truck is nuts. That's a down payment on a new one. Damn near half a new one. Hell, you could have payments down in the upper 200's with that kind of money to throw down.


----------



## Buswell Forest

Smarter money buying a new truck. When the new one is paid off, it will actually still have value.


----------



## Dogplow Dodge

jimbo64;1920121 said:


> If I had to put $16,000. in a almost 20 year old truck over a two year period I would get rid of that truck and look for something a lot newer. Unless you are capable of doing all the work yourself and have the time it just doesn't make any sense ( to me) to hang onto that old truck. It's a money pit !


I love my 22 year old money pit. Bestestest, mostestest funnestest truck iba ebber. Owned

St u pid bridge...


----------



## Nero

Love playing with my investments. Sure beats them new trucks I should have bought. LOL... You think landscaping and snow plowing makes you money? 
You wait until you retire and you will see what you have. Take your money and put it in Investments when you're young and don't stop!! You will be better off than buying new trucks. This is why my House & Business is paid off. Words of success Wants or Needs.


----------



## 4wydnr

MK97;1915947 said:


> Ramsey is okay in moderation. You can't do everything in cash for life. Going to be pissed when you go to buy a house at 30, and find out you have a 450 FICO because you have no credit.


My banker was very happy with my indeterminable score.( Zero credit score) I have no debt some, assets and can prove I pay my bills. He was eager to work with me on a farm mortgage.


----------



## Ryank

MK97;1915947 said:


> There is zero chance of finding a 08 with 50k miles for $18k. I'm shopping for one now and have yet to see one of these unicorns.
> 
> .


http://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/4819155410.html

here is my old boss's truck exactly like i described and his number is listed in the ad... I accept all major credit cards, cashiers check, cash, personal checks and gift cards for showing you this truck which there was zero chances of finding... it has 50,000 miles on it exactly like I said he keeps them up to 50,000 miles, if you are interested i'd act quick because he will just trade it in if he doesn't sell it quick...


----------



## MK97

Ryank;1924908 said:


> http://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/4819155410.html
> 
> here is my old boss's truck exactly like i described and his number is listed in the ad... I accept all major credit cards, cashiers check, cash, personal checks and gift cards for showing you this truck which there was zero chances of finding... it has 50,000 miles on it exactly like I said he keeps them up to 50,000 miles, if you are interested i'd act quick because he will just trade it in if he doesn't sell it quick...


Yeah a bare bones flatbed is apples to apples to the CC Lariats I was looking at and bought the other day.


----------



## Ryank

MK97;1924915 said:


> Yeah a bare bones flatbed is apples to apples to the CC Lariats I was looking at and bought the other day.


you said there was zero chance of finding an 08 6.4 with 50,000 miles for 18k and i just showed you my old bosses truck he is selling...which is an 08 6.4 with 50,000 miles for 22k with a plow... obviously its not a cc lariat like i have that has black leather, platinum white paint, sunroof, factory nav, back up camera, and every other option you could have ordered. that's not a 20,000 truck that's 30-35k used with 70-100k on them. i thought you were looking for another work truck not a personal truck.


----------



## rjigto4oje

The hardest part that I have tried to find is a trans dipstick tube. Heading to the junk yard tomorrow, the dealer is telling me 120.00 and it would be a few days. The bone yard has 5 trucks I'm sure I can get a good used one. And its not available aftermarket


----------



## MK97

rjigto4oje;1941718 said:


> The hardest part that I have tried to find is a trans dipstick tube. Heading to the junk yard tomorrow, the dealer is telling me 120.00 and it would be a few days. The bone yard has 5 trucks I'm sure I can get a good used one. And its not available aftermarket


What year/engine?


----------



## rjigto4oje

sorry I forgot to post that. 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 4 wheel drive 5.2 liter


----------



## maxwellp

rjigto4oje;1941773 said:


> sorry I forgot to post that. 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 4 wheel drive 5.2 liter


http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-RAM-4...Parts_Accessories&hash=item2346c7283b&vxp=mtr


----------



## rjigto4oje

When i called the dealer the part number is 52118620 im trying to get it by Friday i hope to find 1 at the junk yard tomorrow as we may get snow sunday


----------



## rjigto4oje

maxwellp;1941785 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-RAM-4...Parts_Accessories&hash=item2346c7283b&vxp=mtr


I picked up one the one you posted fits 97 to 01 mine fits 94 96 the difference between the two is the early 1 use an o ring the later on in the picture uses a grommet


----------



## KLC99

Grabbed a new old iron project to add to the fleet (we did decide to shift to slightly older stuff). This one is for me personally...


----------



## rjigto4oje

KLC99;2083166 said:


> Grabbed a new old iron project to add to the fleet (we did decide to shift to slightly older stuff). This one is for me personally...


post more pics, thsts a cool old rat rod plow truck


----------



## Flyboy77

KLC99;2083166 said:


> Grabbed a new old iron project to add to the fleet (we did decide to shift to slightly older stuff). This one is for me personally...


Sweet! Post pics/progress of that build. PLEASE!!


----------



## shooterm

MK97;1915947 said:


> Yes the truck does make money when you use completely made up numbers. You fail to understand you need to make back what you have into your equipment before you can ever use the word profit. Once you've made $16k since all those repairs then you can use the word profit. Not before.
> 
> There is zero chance of finding a 08 with 50k miles for $18k. I'm shopping for one now and have yet to see one of these unicorns.
> 
> Ramsey is okay in moderation. You can't do everything in cash for life. Going to be pissed when you go to buy a house at 30, and find out you have a 450 FICO because you have no credit.


I went through this at thirty. I used a small non-reporting bank for vehicle loans and didn't have much for bill records because I was in the miltary barracks unmarried. I got turned down for a 12k truck loan with 8k in savings and a 35k a year job. Makes you really question how fico scores are tabulated.


----------



## Nero

shooterm;2085083 said:


> I went through this at thirty. I used a small non-reporting bank for vehicle loans and didn't have much for bill records because I was in the miltary barracks unmarried. I got turned down for a 12k truck loan with 8k in savings and a 35k a year job. Makes you really question how fico scores are tabulated.


I absolutely agree with you guys. sounds like we all agree that honesty is the best policy in life.


----------



## MC94XR7

KLC99;1859970 said:


> Have any of you with a fleet of 3-5 or more gone this route.
> 
> We're setting up 1 or 2 mid eighties dodges, a late seventies ford and a 79 gmc this year with the idea that maintenance and repair expenses are lower vs 5-10 year old trucks. No more brand new plows either - we've had better luck with spares than new stuff over the years (sec 179 deduction notwithstanding).
> 
> Trucks and plows get cheap, clean paint jobs and don't leak anything.
> Does this make sense to you guys?


I am actually contemplating this very thought. keep us updated with this


----------



## MC94XR7

Banksy;1860019 said:


> You can take a 20-30 year old truck and make it worthy of your company name. Spend $40k+ for a new truck or get a 25 year old truck for a few grand and put a few more into it to make it respectable. That $6k truck could pay for itself within a few good storms. Running older stuff makes a lot of sense and you can fix a lot of stuff right on site with a basic Craftsman tool set. I will say it's easier to spend many hours in a nice comfy newer truck than in an old tank.


This is my exact thought


----------

