# ATF or HYDROLIC FLUID



## FTGUprprtyMaint (Jan 21, 2008)

i have a western pro and the fluid in the pump is a little low, and needs to be slightly topped off. The fluid in it now is red. Looks a lot like tranny fluid. Is it going to hurt the pump if the two fluids are different?


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## streetfrog (Dec 9, 2007)

If it is a belt driven pump then use atf. If it is a electric/hydraulic pump then use plow pump fluid.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

ATF is o.k. to use in a pinch.....

.Atf has paraffin it it. 
At low temps the wax will clog your filter and make your plow sluggish and it will draw more amps.

Your plow does not need any friction modifiers or detergents that atf has in it..

Use a good hydraulic fluid with an AW rating like the blue stuff, Boss meyers and a few others make a quality fluid too..

Yes I too have used atf and it will work o.k but a good quality hydraulic fluid is the best.

Is your plow an automatic transmission? so why use atf..

transmission fluid is warmed/cooled, tempered by the cooler that is inside your radiator,your plows fluid is not..

and yes in cold weather your tranys that still use atf will be sluggish and whine until it is warmed up.
Plus the filter in your tranny is many times larger than your filter for your plow.
Your tranny generates heat.
your plow pump does not., well not much anyway..


Do your self a favor and skip the atf...


Ps It does not matter if your pump is belt driven, driven by an electric motor or pto.


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## FTGUprprtyMaint (Jan 21, 2008)

when i was at the store i grabbed a bottle of both the blue stuff and atf, should i drain the red stuff out of my pump before filling with the blue or is it ok to mix them?


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## Fordistough (Feb 14, 2005)

You should drain the pump and push the plow side to side to drain the angle cylinders, then refill with the Hyd. Fluid


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## doh (Sep 23, 2003)

I have always used Dextron in my Western, and it is currently -27 F here (not that I am plowing, but it still raises and lowers fine.


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## sweetk30 (Sep 3, 2006)

this is the same basic stuff as your expensive plow oil from the dealers. but you can buy a 5 gal bucket in bulk for much less.

people use it in plows/lift gates /and other stuff all the time no problems.

my kendell oil dealer deliveres it all the time to local plow shops. 

http://tds.econocophillips.com/cata...strial Oils/Ken Hyken Glacial Blu TDS Web.pdf


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## itsgottobegreen (Mar 31, 2004)

Ok this is coming from a guy who has put over 150 westerns plows together and worked on hundreds more westerns at thier winter day job. The SOP at the western dealer I work for. All UNIMOUNTS pumps get ATF, no matter what!!!!!!!. If the a ULTRAMOUNT, if its red, it gets red, if its blue it gets blue. Mixing the two are not a really good idea. 

The ATF is just fine as a plow fluid. Unless you constantly plow in the 10 degree and below temperatures. Then you want to do a complete system flush with the blue fluid, run for 5 minutes, flush again, then run for 5 mins and flush a 3rd time. The blue fluid, just happens to have anti icing agents in it. I have not seen any performance differences if you use blue or red. Unless its 10 or below out. There is probably a 90% chance there is a USE ATF sticker on your plow somewhere, all the early ultramounts said that.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

but what would you know... your only a professional.


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## FTGUprprtyMaint (Jan 21, 2008)

Thank you. Now I've got to figure out why it moves so slow side to side, and my headlights dim.


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## stc911 (Jan 14, 2006)

*INstructions needed*

Where can I find a procedure which explains what actions I need to do to flush my plow system. I have atf in and it's been less than 5 here for 2 weeks and the atf has either frozen or thickend up so bad the plow wont work at all. The motor runs but the fluid is to thick . I even pulled the drain plug and removed the fill plug and fluid will not drain. I stuck a piece of wire in the drain hole and it would not go inside. It appears that there may be some ice formed in the reservoir. We have had snow almost every other day for 2 weeks now and my drive is getting to deep.


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

stc911 your issue is not due to ATF in your system. It sounds like water has gotten into your system. I have the same weather as you do and I am having absolutely no issues with ATF. In fact as itsgottobegreen said my Western pump has a factory sticker on that says to fill it with ATF. Negative 10* F is not too cold for ATF. IIRC the pour point for regular ATF is -40*F, synthetic blend ATF is -55*F and synthetic ATF is - 65*F. Different brands will have slight differences but this is just a rule of thumb.
There have been many topics on flushing the system, I am sure if you did a search it would find several articles on it.


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## streetfrog (Dec 9, 2007)

At this point (frozen solid) you need to get it inside to warm it up. DO NOT use a torch on it. 
You can try wrapping it in a regular heating pad on high if you dont have access to a garage.
But either way you have to warm it up to get the fluid out. And put some kind of water remover in it.
I would try the heating pad if you dont have a garage. I have used one like that before. Just wrap it as tight as you can and put on high. 
Takes about an hour or so to defrost the whole thing.
Then change the fluid out.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

We thaw pumps by throwing them in the truck's passengers floor to warm, it never gets hot enough to hurt anything. then once they melt bring them inside to work on. Keeps from filling the shop with trucks just sitting waiting to be worked on.

ATF is 11 times thicker then Premium plow fluid at -15

you can keep running ATF but you'd be better off with Western High pro fluid. easier on the pump, draws less amps to operate, and flow faster.


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## FTGUprprtyMaint (Jan 21, 2008)

im still stumped with why my plow moves so slow. the fluid s only one year old and it doesnt get that cold here in rochester, its about 20 degrees and been like that all week. The fluid doesnt seem too thick where its not moving and i have a 1000 cranking amps batery - 850 when its cold?? and a larger alt.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

i don't care if the fluid is 1 day old, dissimilar fluid reactions, and or paraffin separation can clog a unit in hours. Pull your motor and clean/change the filter. flush the unit and change to premium plow fluid. a good sign it's a fluids problem is a gel like substance clogging the screen

Does the plow drop slowly?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

FTGUprprtyMaint;496670 said:


> im still stumped with why my plow moves so slow. the fluid s only one year old and it doesnt get that cold here in rochester, its about 20 degrees and been like that all week. The fluid doesnt seem too thick where its not moving and i have a 1000 cranking amps batery - 850 when its cold?? and a larger alt.


You should change your plow fluid annually (yearly, every year)

The hydraulic fluid/atf absorbs moisture from the air.
If you keep your plow in a heated garage condensation happens in the reservoir.

Every tine you move your plow air is ether pushed out or drawn into the reservoir. This is a source of moisture.
over time it builds up causing ice to form clogging your filter or freezing up your pump.


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## FTGUprprtyMaint (Jan 21, 2008)

no the plow drops at a good rate but all hydrolic movements are slow


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

It may have nothing to do with the fulid at all. If the motor is weak or tired, the plow will slow down a lot.


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## FTGUprprtyMaint (Jan 21, 2008)

not only is it slow but it bogs my battery down when im plowing. cant quite figure it out


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## sweetk30 (Sep 3, 2006)

i have never had a plow pump apart but by the sounds of it to me you have a lot of junk in the system. and even if its new you need to start someplace. so go deep and diss the whole pump. clean it flush it and use spec fluid. 

my friend one time got a brand new carb for his car. ran good had good 4 barrel kick. later that summer he pulled it cleaned it and added more hp goodys. when he disassembled the sec metering plate unit it had a huge chunk of casting flashing pluging 3/4 of the port off. so he reassembled it back all stock first. with out the peice of junk. 

he stomped on it and she just took off like a shot out of a gun. he had to use both feet to stop in time for the stop sign. 

so even if its new you might have gotten the odd ball with some kind of slight problem that still works 100% so you thaut till you reman it and know for your self.


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## doh (Sep 23, 2003)

FTGUprprtyMaint;497106 said:


> not only is it slow but it bogs my battery down when im plowing. cant quite figure it out


Have you adjusted the quill? I did that to mine 2 years ago and ordered a new motor, thinking the the brushes had went south. Found out I turned the quill in too much tring not to wake customers dropping my blade in the wee hours of the morning.


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## FTGUprprtyMaint (Jan 21, 2008)

I'll try that when i put my plow back on later today. I may have adjusted that last season for the same reason. Do u think that would cause the pump to work harder and make the lights dim?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

The Quill... 

You can adjust the drop speed. This adjustment has no effect on any other function other than the drop speed.

If you adjust the by-pass all it will do is change the relief psi, so ether it will give way easer or it will take more to make it give way.

Nether of these adjustments will change the speed in which your hydraulics work.

Nether of these adjustments will effect your motor.


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## doh (Sep 23, 2003)

Check out page 37 Quill adjust both raise speed and drop speed

http://www.westernplows.com/pdf/21936_120198.pdf


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

FTGUprprtyMaint;497106 said:


> not only is it slow but it bogs my battery down when im plowing. cant quite figure it out


I think you motor is going bad, I changed mine this winter and it made a huge difference!


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## Avitare (Sep 22, 2007)

Take your plow motor to a good rebuild shop (esp if they have been doing
lots of plow motors) and let them bench test it

check your electrical connections and the condition of the large pos and neg cables.
Check the ends ( I made a bad connection and it took a year for me to figure that out).

For kicks, add a jumpercable to the motor to double the wire size and see it that 
makes a difference.

change the fluid and clean the screen.
Blue fluid is going to cost about $5 more--big deal.


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