# What are the benefits of a V plow?



## eskals (Aug 17, 2000)

I have never done any snow plowing, but have been reading the posts here for some time. Everyone seems to recomend a V plow. But I wonder, what are the benefits of a V plow? It seems like it would be good for the initial push (by pushing the snow to either side), and then lose its effecitveness (you can only push to one side using half the with of the plow). I know that some V plows hinge so that they can be used either stright or V'ed. But is it worth the extra expense for a V plow? What are its advantages?

If all of you are recomending it, then I know that there is something I am overlooking. Please enlighten me..

Eric


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

I own one sraight blade that is less than 10ft and 9 vees, 6 years ago it was completly the opposite.If you don't own or use one I can understand the question. A v plow is rarely used in the v position for more than a pass or two in a lot or for doing longer drives, and the usually only when the snow is deep.In the full v pos. the truck does not get thrown around while busting through on an initial pass and it also takes alot less ponies,kinda like a hot knife through butter. From there its all about options, the snow can be winged to the right or left or the blade can be cupped to carve off hunks of snow to be put where you choose. And the one last benefit and the one that makes me own one more than all the rest is the picking up of those pesky trails you leave in one pass without having to redo the whole lot.


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## Alan (Mar 2, 2000)

We just got our first Vee, so I'll be able to tell more in a few months.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

Here is the biggest reason to use a v plow. They save you time, and time means $$$$$. Like was mentioned the v position is rarely used,however the scoop position is where the real time saving is. I will never plow with a straight plow again.
Dino


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

I am going to buy some of fishers 9.5' v plows this year for my f 550s. 

Geoff


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## eskals (Aug 17, 2000)

Thanks for all the replies!

Like I said in my orgional post, if all af you are recomending it, then there is something that I am overlooking. Well, I overlooked the fact the V plows con form a scoop. That alone would sure pay for its self in cleaning up those trails (like you guys said). 

Thanks for showing me the light...

Eric


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## BRL (Dec 21, 1999)

Dino,
Forgive me. What is the "scoop position" vs. "V" position. After hearing all of these posts I'm pretty sure I'll be buying V plows in the future. Thanks.


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## Aspen Snow (Aug 6, 2000)

BRL,

The scoop position is an inverted V. It is used great for cleaning up windrows and corner. We have one 8.5 Western MVP but are looking for another one this year.


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## Kent Lawns (Jan 18, 2000)

I began using V-Plows in the late-80's, early 90's. Certainly do have their benefits.

Bear in mind their service life is shorter than a straight blade.


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

The certainly wil not last as long if they are not inspected and maintained,and they are certainly higher maintanence. But if they are cared for they will as long as any other plow


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## BRL (Dec 21, 1999)

In my mind the v position was the scoop position, so I didn't understand what other scoop there could possibly be. I didn't know anyone would be considereing using it with the point of the v out front. Although now that I think of it it, that position would come in handy for roadways that aren't wide, or long driveways. Run down the middle and maybe get it in one pass. You guys are going to talk me into one for sure. Thanks Aspen.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

Another benifit of the v plow is in traffic. Both wings are tight to the truck and it really cuts down the space needed for manuevering.
One thing to bear in mind, is that a full trip v plow is much harder on the truck than a bottom trip v plow. In the v or scoop it takes alot more energy to trip a full moldboard trip action plow.That may be why some are seeing shorter service life.
All plows benifit from a urethane cutting edge, it will act as a second trip device, easing the shock to,driver,plow, and truck.
A bottom trip v plow, only has to trip half a trip edge,when an obstacle is hit. I have found the western to be very easy on the truck, and with the urethane edge alomost no energy is transmitted to the truck.
Dino


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## Deere John (May 14, 2001)

We have also found that we are able to back blade better than with a straight-blade, and ofcourse, stack snow higher. We can also loosen frozen snow and bank ice without having to get the backhoe.

Regarding service life, I took the time last fall (about 2.5 hours) to drill grease fittings into all the grade 5 bolts in the pivot points. Lots of cutting oil is needed on the drill bit, but I did it to a plow in 1990 too and we got 9 winters out of if when we would normally trade it after 5. That's efficient in my mind.

By the way, which ever brank vee you buy, get the options that will increase productivity and cut costs in other areas - don't just go bare bones.


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## BRL (Dec 21, 1999)

Deere,
<By the way, which ever brank vee you buy, get the options that will increase productivity and cut costs in other areas - don't just go bare bones.>

Options such as...?


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## iowastorm (Aug 20, 2000)

Our Boss V plows work great, but are a pain to mount. It always took 2 of us to get the things on and off. However, the benefits outweighted that inconvenience. Make sure you get a snow deflector for your plow; it'll keep the snow from blowing up on your windshild when plowing; especially at higher speeds. FYI; our Boss plows didn't come w/ deflectors; they were about $250 a piece extra.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

The deflector is one option, some offer different control sticks in the cab, maybe even different hydro options.
The makers of some v plows with single acting cyl, offer cyl locks, for back dragging to keep the wings from folding forward.Boss now offers a poly v plow. This is a critical one for boss plows, biggest complaint I have heard about them.
I am sure others will think of different options.
Dino


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

A couple things a boss plow for draging isn't a big issue because is can be set down straight and then as you back yes it will fold to a full foward v then it stops and out comes the snow.Secondly can some one explain on a cutting edge trip that is 8" tall, what happens when a 12" curb gets hit and stops the whole truck? which part tends to snap off first,is it the tower or deos the whole mount get shoved into the transmission?


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## iowastorm (Aug 20, 2000)

Diggerman,

I would think that if you're talking about a Boss V plow, the plow, mounting bracket and pins would take the excess of abuse. Ofcourse, it would depend upon how fast you're going.

In reference to the backdragging issue; I think that we can all agree that it's a pain in the rear. Our Boss V's aren't for crud for this. In fact, we had better luck with our Bobcat w/ the V plow attatchment on it for backdragging. If the guy that posted this string is going to do driveways, he might consider purchasing a nice 2 stage snow blower and some ramps to get it on the truck (or even hiring an extra guy and purchasing a second blower). All of this could be accomplished for much less than purchasing a plow and having it installed.


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

Iowastorm I was not refering to Boss plows but to ones with a cutting edge trip,and yes Boss plows do not back drag well and if one was doing alot of residential drives there are better options but for dragging out individual parking spaces I haven't seen the problem. One thing that does help is pushing forward first to free up the snow


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

1-I have never seen a 12" curb
2- That would represent almost 1/2-1/3 of the total moldboard height,in whick case a full trip plow would not be able to save the truck/plow combo.
I dont think any plow maker would advertise that their plow would handle a high speed contact with a 12" obstacle.
3-Install an urethane edge and that will handle the 12" obstacle.
4- I find your question to have no practical purpose.


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## Kent Lawns (Jan 18, 2000)

Like a whole-plow trip feature would work when encountering a 12" obsticle.

If you hit a solid object over 8" tall, you're screwed regardless of what plow setup you have.


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

I agree and have an old fisher 8' blade to prove it. Back in the late 80s, i was building my house. I decided i wanted no snow around the house so i would plow the whole lot off, to make it easier for the builder. It worked well, till i hit a pile of cement blocks barried under 10" of snow. 

I totaled the blade, i was lucky no damage to the truck or plow frame. I had to drive back to the shop, and listen to everyone say, i was glade the boss was plowing there.


Geoff


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

I guess I was to specific with numbers to allow the question to be answered. We encounter "items which have a height that exceeds the cutting edge height of most plows, a boss will trip on these item or at least allow enough flex to dampen a blow, this is at normal operating speeds of 7 to 20 mph. How does a cutting edge trip handle these "items"?
Also is there a problem hitting things end ways on a cutting edge v plow causing a tweeking of the the trip mechanism so that it does not return like it should? Lastly has there ever been a problem with snow getting wedged in to a triped edge so that it will not return?Also Urathane edges are what we use on all of our smaller stuff and it seems to work fine. On the pickups I might try one sum time but I am very happy with my steel I had a pallet of edges special ordered to be harder and thicker(5/8inch). The larger stuff I have I need to be able to exsert down pressure so steel is what I'll use there to.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

I dont understand it, the urethane will work even better when you do have down pressure, and no draw backs.
Why are you so against a product that will save you money and time. They will out last steel at least 3-1 and as high as 6-1. I also doubt you are using urethane on smaller equipment. You might be using a polymer but not urethane.
In fact we are selling OEM to major equipment makers. They are selling them as edge replacements on buckets that work on roads. Like when a sewer main is being replaced and they are constantly on asphalt and dont want to leave marks, or wear the stel edge. They are finding that the urethane is lasting 10x as long a s a steel edge when down pressure is a factor.
And on pick ups the fact that less stress is on plow and truck components alone should sell the product. This is unlike anything you have ever seen before. And dont be fooled by what your supplier tells you, they dont know the difference either. They sell you a polymer moldboard, and tell you its urethane, when in fact its not. 
The only time I have not had a trip plow return was plowing gravel, in that case a small rock was wedged, snow has never been a problem.
I have never had a trip edge plow break from anything hitting it, front back or sideways. In fact in my experience the trip plows will outlast the full trip about 1.5-2x as long.
However that being said, for straight plows, I have my trucks all out fitting with full trip plows,I dont want my drivers beating the trucks. I would rather have them break a plow than a truck.

[Edited by plowking35 on 08-27-2000 at 09:34 PM]


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

Sound great do like the idea but until I burn up current stock Ill keep using my steel. Has anyone tried this type edge on a snow pusher?


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## Vince Panaroni (Feb 13, 2000)

*snow pushers*

Diggerman,

Urethane edges are used on nearly all makes of pushers. The pusher manufacturers such as ProTec, Avelanche, and Everest offer metal, rubber and urethane unlike most of the plow manufacturers, who are looking only towards profits and won't offer the urethane edges.

Pushers have to do a good job and they normally do. Pushers show the advantages of the urethane and rubber edge over steel all the time, because they plow cleaner and save money because unlike steel edges, the operator doesn't have to go over the same area again and again and that cost labor money.

Dino knows what he is talking about because he is a user of the edge, sees what it has done for him, and has tried his best to realy this information to this forum and anyone else who will listen to him.

Why do every major airport use urethane? because it cleans better than steel, outlasts steel, doesn't cause the damage that steel does etc etc etc.

Trying to get some people to understand the advantages of the urethane edge is like tring to explain why air tires on cars work better than solid wheels made of wood and steel.

One last thing about pushers every airport uses them, and they push and plow from 1st flake. Those are normally grooved surfaces that in many cases can go through 3 carbide steel edges per season at better than $35.00 per foot. Figure it out the manufacturers are forcing users to use what they have and can make profit on, not what will save you money and down time.

enough

vince


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

Vince I am not against urethane infact I have a quote on my desk right now,but just to correct one thing the edges that came standard on my protechs was not urethane, they apear to be rubber. Urethane I think(correct me if Im wrong) are stiffer.In fact I asked Bill N. if he had ever heard of this combination of Urethane and snow pusher he didnt think so,but Im still game and may try it on one.


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## Vince Panaroni (Feb 13, 2000)

Diggerman,

No argument and I understand what your saying. Maybe your pusher came with a rubber edge, is that what you ordered and did you order any certain edge for your pusher?????

To answer your question about urethane being stiffer than rubber, in some applications it could be, it can also be made quite flexible. It all depends on the operator. We have found that the current hardness 80-90 shore A has performed the best. Our pusher edges are usually towards the more flexible side of the spec because of how they operate in a bend back configuration. The urethanes work well because of their outstanding resistance to abrasion.

You know diggerman that if someone wanted to order a pusher with a gold plated steel edge, and was willing to pay for it the manufacturer would get it done.

We outfitted nearly 40 units last year and so far this year have on order over double that amount, and that is in the aftermarket. We still don't know what the OEM's are going to do. The aftermarket does sometimes drive the manufacturers. 

You will find the urethane edge well worth the effort, besides you got nothing to loose except irate clients ....

vince


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

Vince 
Thanks for your input,my pusher came with the standard rubber edge,and yes the manufacturer would have put what ever we wanted on our blades,but I have been bit by my preuse "good ideas" and have chosen to use a product for a while before modification.Since you seem to be up on this I have a couple questions. I talked to a urethane sales company yesterday and they said adjustment is done by three holes rather than a slot, have these been variable enough so that just the blade can be adjusted or will the end shoes need to be adjusted as well.Also since it appears that 12 ft is about the max length what is the chance of breaking or cracking the urethane on the in board corners of a 14 or 16ft pusher.


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## Dink38 (Jul 6, 2000)

*V plows*

We are getting ready to buy a Boss V plow. Has anyone had any major problems with Boss? 
Thanks,
Terri


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

I have 9 and the major problem we had is because of the kind of use,it inolved an airport an high speed plowing which most people do not do.Even still they have been extreemly durable.there are several reason we like the boss,one is they are full trip, secondly the center tower seems to be signifigantly stronger than many of the other brands.


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## snow (Jan 5, 2001)

diggerman- I'm just wondering how a full trip blade trips in scoop or V position. it seems like they wouldn't trip with a blade full of snow, but just take a beating. 

bryan


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

Everybody always asks that question,I don't usually have a problem,the blade "A" frame is free to float so as the forward v tips forward the a frame lifts and over it tips.I have some what the same question for bottom trips and how they trip when caught directly on the end of the cup, and if caught directly on the end and the trip edge mount gets bent isn't it repair time?Also Im sure that the newer blades have some cool adjustment things,but with the boss and the type of tip they have adjusting the blade so the cutting edge sits properly on the ground is easy,and I am going to make it easier by istalling adjustment bolt on mine.With v plow adjusting the weight in the back of a truck can throw the cutting edge contact off.


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## thelawnguy (May 20, 2001)

In these parts we call a 12 inch curb a "wall". I know of no plow that will trip when hitting a "wall".

Dino do you have those edges in stock? I plan to buy one sometime towards the end of this month.


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## Vince Panaroni (Feb 13, 2000)

Diggerman,

First of all what urethane company have you been talking to?
you can use either slots or holes. the slots allow you to loosen up the edge and move it very little or a low where as with the holes you have to take the edge apart and reset up. It six of one and half a dozen of the other. the slots do seem to get loose quite often also.

I the slots give you more variablility than the holes, but like I said before, I prefer the holes. As for the end shoes, I would think that you would adjust them to ride in the same position that you would be normally pushing in. Remember the cutting edge with pushers normally flexes backwards pushing the snow ahead of it in a bent position.

Don't worry about max or min lengths. We provide edges for pushers at airports that are over 30 feet wide. what we do is section them and they work perfect. One machine like I said has six sections 5 feet long each. I do believe that if you visit our website http://www.mptek.com you will see a picture of it in several colors. There are also I believe some pictures of some 12, 16, and 20 foot Everest pushers also.

We haven't seen that type of damage to our edges so far....

Check with me also at [email protected] and I will get you more data and information. Please let met know who you talked to about edges.

vince


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

The edges are usually made tp order since veryone likes things a little different, but our turnaround is about 7 days. Just drop me a line, and can get the ball rolling.
Dino


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## BRL (Dec 21, 1999)

Dino,
How do you want us to "drop you a line". I've sent you a couple of E-mails, one through Lawnsite & one through your web site but no response. Let us know how you prefer to be contacted about getting the edges. Thanks. (or is it just me?)


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

you can e mail me at [email protected]
or call 860-859-0739
I did call a brian, that I got a lead from MTS. On friday 
9-1-00, if that is you, I left a message.Oh well call or e mail.
Dino


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