# A Word About Magic Salt



## Andy N. (Dec 14, 2001)

Magic Salt is supposed to last longer than untreated rock salt. It has a longer residual value than untreated rock salt. Correct? So.....If I apply magic salt to a parking lot and it melts down like it should AND retains its value for the next snowfall (1/2" or less), thus causing me to not have to treat it again, I don't understand the point. Are you not leaving money on the table, instead of going and salting the parking lot again? Do you charge for the treatment anyway without having to retreat? I understand the other properties of magic salt, such as being active at lower temperatures, and less corrosive etc, but it seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong (which I am MANY TIMES), that I would be leaving money on the table by not getting as many applications as I can out of different snow events.

This question has been bugging me for quite some time. Those of you who use it, tell me the advantages that make it more PROFITABLE than regular rock salt.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Good post, I have thought the same thing myself.

Todd


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## Andy N. (Dec 14, 2001)

I understand its purpose for DOT and township purposes, but for private contractors, seems like you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Perhaps you can take on more accounts as the magic works longer?


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

That's been brought up before - that Magic treated salt works TOO good subsequently leading to less charge to the customer. One benefit you tout to the customer is SERVICE - you're providing the best products and techniques possible to provide top quality service. After all, you're going to have to charge more for that treated salt than for regular salt. Now if they're not impressed with that (and that's likely) there's another tack you can try. Offer to provide seasonal service. By using the treated salt, you use less product, laying it down less and plowing less snow depth - resulting in less wear and tear on your equipment. This is kind of like the argument against charging for plowing by the hour - no incentive for being efficient. So the bottom line is - no product or technique is suited for everybody. If your income depends on the number of times you plow and and amount of salt laid down - don't use treated salt.


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## pbeering (Jan 13, 2003)

You are selling your customer a clean lot, road, or drive. They care not how you do it. If you use a superior product, then you can charge accordingly. the efficiency of Magic allows you to compensate for other spiraling costs.


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

Have tried magic a million times in every different condition and still cant tell the difference from untreated salt.


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

You have to remember Magic Salt will melt snow and continue 
de-icing at 0 degrees or below freezing because of its coating. 

Plain salt STOPS working at these temps. and becomes useless.

It will also lay down a brine at any temp. range that will continue 
to melt falling snow and prevent ice formation.

This will be my 5th year using it and sure it costs a few bucks more
to purchase !
But I charge accordingly and have no customer complaints.............

One good application per day will keep my walkways and steps 
along with heavy traffic areas black and wet..............

The price works out to be LESS because of labor from re-shoveling 
and reapplying mag./cal. chloride/plain salt more than once a day.....

We get a average of 225 inches per season here in lake effect land
of NY. So its pretty easy to know what works the best !

I doubted it at first, but 1 season changed MY mind quick!..........geo  

Have a laugh and read my post "The lady who cried too much salt" !!!! :crying:


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## mrplowdude (Apr 16, 2005)

when you pretreat it won't allow the snow to bond to the pavement allowing you to easily clean the snow right down to pavement. It will save you time and money. You can charge more for a better service. payup


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## M-Pact Snow (Feb 2, 2005)

With all the other great responses, one more thing stands is that while you will be more efficient using the treated salt you will be spending less time on that lot and you will be able to pick up one or mabey two more accounts, resulting in a much more profitable situation.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

procut1 said:


> Have tried magic a million times in every different condition and still cant tell the difference from untreated salt.


 As of today...I never have noticed a difference.


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## Andy N. (Dec 14, 2001)

You guys still are not answering my question. Well, you kind of are. Here is my point. You can charge an extra 15%? extra for magic salt and have it work a little bit longer than rock salt, OR you could go back and salt again and get 100% more for a full salting trip. You could do sidewalks for the same $$ amount extra for magic salt, OR, you could get a 100% paid trip to clear and retreat the sidewalks. It just seems silly to me to be paying more for a product that the customer won't really appreciate OR understand than to be doing what ALL of my competition is doing and salting their accounts sometimes three times in a normal business day. No one in my area has even heard of magic salt. I have talked to reps of Magic on the phone wanting me to be a dealer for my area - I don't get it. If I'm going to get out of bed, I might as make as much money as possible. I am by no means saying that I gouge my customers, but I do what is necessary to keep their property clear and melted. 

As far as this theory that rock salt does not melt after xyz degrees, I am fully aware of that, but in all of my experience, rock salt still melts w/ temps in the teens, it just takes longer.

For those of you who have tried magic and can find no difference in it, are you mixing it properly, I'm sure you are, it can't be that hard. Surely someone here uses it and can tell me WHY you are using it.

Mick, I understand where you are coming from but in my area, no one does a seasonal contract, its taboo.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

There is no point to use it if you charge per application.


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## Andy N. (Dec 14, 2001)

Alrighty then. Thank you.


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## pbeering (Jan 13, 2003)

You charge a premium for treated salt. We spend a little energy and educate the cutomers about the value to them: less damage, better results, no dead grass, no sliding through the intersections, no runoff contamination into their detention ponds, no EPA or other issues. Time is money. You are selling the outcome, not the how.

We also sell the stuff to our customers, another profit center.

Try it, you might just like it.


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## pbeering (Jan 13, 2003)

Andy, I sent you a private message on this subject.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Andy, how are you charging for your applications? Per Ton? Per application, i.e., $50\application? This will make a big difference in answering your question.


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## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

procut1 said:


> Have tried magic a million times in every different condition and still cant tell the difference from untreated salt.


I don't use MS I use regular salt cut just 20% with sand. I drive by an account that uses MS in the course of my route and the only thing I have seen as an advantage is that on the cold storms (25 +/- degrees F) that the MS started to melt faster than mine.


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## Andy N. (Dec 14, 2001)

Mark,
Per application. Thats why I understand that it is kind of pointless for me to use magic.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

That's easy then. Once you get the 'hang' of Magic Salt over untreated salt, you will start using less material, thereby making more profit. One of the benefits of treated salt is that you can reduce the amount applied by 25-30%, some say up to 50%. Plus you will get better results quicker and at lower temps.


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

What's Magic Salt made of??

How is it any different from other "salts" that will melt down to -25 degrees?


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Epic Lawn Care said:


> As of today...I never have noticed a difference.


Epic -

What are you using for salt?? I just run over to Lesco when they're having a big preseason or postseason sale and pick up some Melt II.


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## Andy N. (Dec 14, 2001)

So if I'm putting less down but it costs more than regular salt, aren't I pretty much breaking even? And, I'm still stuck with the dilemma of the strong residual value possibly cutting into additional applications for dustings of snow, etc.

I'm not being combative here, I just think that Magic is only for those who have seasonal contracts or for DOTs.

Also, I have the door to my vbox shut as tight as it will go. I do not put down a lot of salt, only when necessary.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Yes, that is and can be a problem that has to be overcome by each company. But it depends on how well you want to service your customer and what kind of service you want to provide as well as being more environmentally friendly by reducing the amount of actual rack salt that is being applied. 

Case in point, 5 years ago we started using loaders with ProTechs for plowing large lots. Because of the obvious benefits of loaders over trucks, reduced stacking and hauling, we have in a way lost money because we are not performing these services as frequently as if we were using trucks. But, we are providing a higher level of service to the customer that we can charge more for along with making more dollars per hour by replacing 2-3 trucks with a loader. 

Magic Salt is straight rock salt treated with Magic, a byproduct of distilleries. (If this is incorrect, please feel free to correct me, it's been awhile since I've used it and researched it). It does not have calcium, potassium in it although it may have magnesium. Some say that by treating it with the Magic that it removes the corrosiveness of the sodium chloride. My personal opinion on this last sentence is that once the Magic is diluted, you still have sodium chloride.


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## M-Pact Snow (Feb 2, 2005)

Mark is absolutly right in his statements. 

Dont look at magic as a per application fee, look at it as a yearly investment, the less product you have to buy, the less product you have to stock, the less product you have to apply makes you more effient than the next guy who refuses to use it, resulting in quicker applications, leading to more accounts, which makes MONEY. So try not to look at it as you are losing money beacuse you cant apply a full application every time, get out there and try it, dont be affraid to just use it as a sales tool for for company. People really pay attention to that.


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## pbeering (Jan 13, 2003)

The other factor here is damage to flora and fauna. We only do upper end accounts where the landscaping is a big deal. A lot of folks, and the media, are beginning to ask about salt contamination in surface water. This is a bigger deal out east than in the mid-west, but it is an issue.

The residual also buys you some response time. Since it will melt some of it off, and limit the sticking.


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## FIREMAN Q (Jan 19, 2005)

i'm glad this tread happened because i have been wondering these same things. I was thinking that if a small storm is coming such as a dusting or a 1 inch storm that i would just go out before the storm to pretreat with the magic. this way i can still bill for the salting. I may not get a plowing in but I am also looking at it as cutting down the wear and tear of my truck. 

Does anyone else do this???


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## pbeering (Jan 13, 2003)

Absolutely. Pre-treating has been a part of our program for a number of years. It keeps us ahead of the storm. Customers love that. And.....we make some money on it.


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## ctplower (Dec 5, 2003)

First of all AndyN, you should be able to charge about 30% more per application. Magic does have a residual effect, but I would still go out, if you are going to get another storm which might only be 1/2 inch and put down a very small amount of magic just to be able to charge for the application and besides the fact that, what if you don't reapply and then you have a spot that there might not be a residual and someone slips and falls.

Magic is a fantastic product, but you still want to cover your butt!!

They are not going to question you on the amount of salt used, just that the application was made!!

For all of you guys that say you can't see a difference between Magic and regular rock salt, I think you should have your eyes checked.

ANYONE that has used Magic, knows that it is far superior to regular rock salt!!!!!!!!

Magic O, Magic Minus 0 or Ice-B-Gone (all the same product) is a mixture of distillery byproducts and Mag chloride.


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## ghost (Jan 23, 2004)

*hey Andy N.*

Andy do you have any idea where to get Magic in Pittsburgh?


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## Andy N. (Dec 14, 2001)

Ghost,
No idea. That is why they contacted me to be a dealer. I just don't see the need for it around here. I have talked to many other contractors regarding this product - First of all, they have never heard of it, second of all, I have no time to market this stuff to be a dealer.


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## little pat (Feb 14, 2004)

My company used Magic Salt last winter and, to be honest, it was nothing but a headache. It was fine while the temps were in the 30,s but when it got really cold, it froze. We had v-boxes, tailgate spreaders and buckets all unusable. I was in constant contact with the supplier and they were no help all they wanted to do was sell me more. In the end I discovered we were given a wet load that made the product worthless. I called the main office in New York, they told me they would get to the bottom of the problem. Haven't heard from them yet and they won't return my calls. All I can say is we'll never use the product again.


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## gpin (Dec 5, 2003)

An ealier post mentioned salt mixed w/ sand. No one I know in the Phila area uses sand. I have seen it used effectively in other areas. Other than making a mess, why don't we use sand in the Phila area?


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

gpin said:


> An ealier post mentioned salt mixed w/ sand. No one I know in the Phila area uses sand. I have seen it used effectively in other areas. Other than making a mess, why don't we use sand in the Phila area?


Probably same reason as here in MN. It makes a big mess that has to be cleaned up again.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'll probably upset some people, but the reason you don't want to use sand\salt mix--other than on a gravel lot\drive--is because it is a waste of time, money and as stated, makes a huge mess. It does not melt snow, it only very, very marginally increases traction in the mean time adding to air and ground water pollution. There have been numerous studies performed showing sand really does nothing in snow. It is also much more expensive than straight salt, when you factor in mixing, storage, cleanup of parking lots, cleanup\removal of catch basins and the added cleaning of storm sewers. 

One other place sand would make sense is during an ice storm.


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## gpin (Dec 5, 2003)

Mark, thanks for your post. One of my new employees if from Washington, DC and is making noise about sand vs salt. I was also up in Vt and some of the local roads were sanded, probably for ice as you stated. Your explanation makes sense.

I'm sold on Magic for pre and post treat. It is hard for me to compare to salt because we haven't used salt in a few years. We actually stock bags on site and use very little. We actually spread most of it with broadcast spreaders to ensure good coverage without waste. Most my lots are small, under 3 acres. We use 1 tailgate spreader. 

Our clients are personal injury attorneys and they are very careful about snow removal and ice management as they have a have a larger than average percentage of slip and fall suits on their properties.

Part of our service includes brushing snow of windsheilds of the cars parked in the lot. It seems that the extra service covers the firm in the event of a suit. They show our detailed bills that indicate the extra service including the pre and post treat with magic and, so far, no successful cases against them. They claim that it is impossible to eliminate all ice, but that they contract with a reputable company that charges by the service needed to provide the best possible snow and ice management service as oppossed to hiring a company who bills simply by the event. 

Obviously a PITA but it is a good niche business for us.


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## gordyo (Feb 12, 2002)

little pat said:


> My company used Magic Salt last winter and, to be honest, it was nothing but a headache. It was fine while the temps were in the 30,s but when it got really cold, it froze. We had v-boxes, tailgate spreaders and buckets all unusable. I was in constant contact with the supplier and they were no help all they wanted to do was sell me more. In the end I discovered we were given a wet load that made the product worthless. I called the main office in New York, they told me they would get to the bottom of the problem. Haven't heard from them yet and they won't return my calls. All I can say is we'll never use the product again.


I had this happen to me the first year I used Magic. I got two "Wet" loads. What I found out is that the trucking company that was hired by the new Magic supplier had not emptied the dump body out from the previous snow storm on both loads. I checked the second load very closely when it arrived two weeks after the first one and found a 4" ring of ice at the edges of the bed and the load was extra wet. The first load was delivered two days after a 6" snowfall. Fortunatly the second load was delivered after a 4 inch snowfall but during a warmish week with a few storms and I did not have to deal with it freezing. Needless to say I buy my Magic elsewere now and have not had a problem in the last two seasons.


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## little pat (Feb 14, 2004)

Hey Jeff, glad to hear you were able to find a better distributor. The load we had delivered was before the weather even broke. It was 70 and sunny when we got our wet load. My biggest problem was that the distributor tried to hide the fact they sent a wet load and used every excuse in the book why it wasn't their fault. Then, when I called the main New York office, they told me they would straighten out the problem. I can't even get them to talk to me now. It seems they don't stand behind their product or the distributors that sell their product. Not a good sign in this industry.


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