# USM & Ruby Tuesday Service Termination



## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

Just got a email. USM lost the Ruby Tuedays account!! 

This account only lasted from April, of last year!! USM set a record for themselves on losing an account this time. They only got 9 months of their 3 year contract in. :laughing:


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## KissMyWake (Sep 22, 2008)

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## snowplowpro (Feb 7, 2006)

Good hopefully all the big companies start losing stuff


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

That's too bad............................NOT.


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## zlssefi (Dec 29, 2011)

Thats a good start. They lost the lawn and snow contract for bright horizons last year as wel!!!!


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Don't get too excited guys as another national will jump in and take their place..........


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

Mick76;1561021 said:


> Don't get too excited guys as another national will jump in and take their place..........


Not excited, just enjoying karma. Thumbs Up


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

Mick76;1561021 said:


> Don't get too excited guys as another national will jump in and take their place..........


While your more than likely right, I hope that these restaraunts and large chains start figuring out its not beneficial to go with the nationals............ Lets hope so!!!


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## PTSolutions (Dec 8, 2007)

We serviced our local ruby tuesday for both lawn and snow. We got in with a really good manager, had great communication, really appreciated our work etc... They put in some new ****** bag manager that was always complaining about this and that, all things not under our maintenance contract that he believed should be done free of charge. Anyways, after I decide to suck it up and do a couple free services for them he calls to tell me that he decided to terminate us. That mother *&^*$ ! He was constantly feeding me BS and then I get a call from USM saying they would like us to provide a bid for services at the same location, I hung up on the guy. 

They rotate managers out pretty constantly so I'm just waiting for a new one to come in and re-submit a bid now that they are not with USM anymore!


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

Karma can be a beeeeotch!


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

Just got off the phone with my local store managers. Looks like we will be putting our bids in for the rest of this snow season!! THANKS USM!!!!!!


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## Oxmow (Dec 6, 2006)

Had my local Ruby's, 2 locations, till the recession. they went with an, umm, cheaper alternative that does both locations for less than i did one of them!


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## prosnowpusherMI (Dec 18, 2012)

Its confirmed. Contract is terminated on February 1, 2013. 

Hopefully more contracts are taken away from the Nationals. By the sounds of it, Ruby Tuesdays will be going back to the local level since the last 3 contracts with nationals have been terminated early.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Ya, the Ruby Tuesday Ship has sailed though, I give them about 2 years and they'll be gone.

They're closing stores left and right across the country.



.............


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

prosnowpusherMI;1561985 said:


> Its confirmed. Contract is terminated on February 1, 2013.
> 
> Hopefully more contracts are taken away from the Nationals. By the sounds of it, Ruby Tuesdays will be going back to the local level since the last 3 contracts with nationals have been terminated early.


It's funny how things work out in the end? We had two stores for 2 years. Last year around April, USM came around we lost our two stores. Now January 1st, 9 months later I got both store managers calling me. (can you guys please come back?) (the service with USM sucked!!)

Want to know what I said? Sure we can come back! However, our prices for these two locations has changed! I raised the prices by 15% on each location! And then I told the manager we can no longer do your walks! lol They both didnt like that! But guess who has two stores signed back up!?!? payup

Once again THANKS USM!! :salute:


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## snowplowpro (Feb 7, 2006)

The ruby Tuesday's by me in nnj are inside malls there not private parking lots


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## GSS LLC (Jul 7, 2012)

i have the account across the street from one. the employees actually park in the lot i plow in the am because it is cleared hours before the ruby tuesdays lot.


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

GSS LLC;1562099 said:


> i have the account across the street from one. the employees actually park in the lot i plow in the am because it is cleared hours before the ruby tuesdays lot.


Call the store manager! Should be a easy account pickup! Thumbs Up


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

John143;1560461 said:


> Just got a email. USM lost the Ruby Tuedays account!!
> 
> This account only lasted from April, of last year!! USM set a record for themselves on losing an account this time. They only got 9 months of their 3 year contract in. :laughing:


thats because they found someone to do it at a fraction of the price you were . happens all the time here . we looked at a 25 acre lot for them 2 years ago and the broker said we were 30k over the last 2 bidders . 
the nature of the business is cut throat , guys are bidding just wage rate w/out a profit margin to pay the notes on equipment and to " keep their men busy " ! 
all they need is a good 2 weeks of ice storms and heavy accumulations then they'll be looking for another new trade to gouge themselves outta 
they are giving it away as far as were concerned . thats not a business , thats a hoor bath :laughing:


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## KYsnow (Sep 22, 2012)

cause chaos with the nationals... bid low and never show up and say you did. They don't have boots on the ground to verify. Expect to get fired but you leave them hanging with an angry client and scrambling to find some other sucker. If this happened with multiple suppliers they would be out of the snow biz quickly.


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

Spool it up;1562174 said:


> thats because they found someone to do it at a fraction of the price you were . happens all the time here .


YES!! It happens to us every year. But 98% of the time the customer ends up calling us back in the end. I started something new last year and it seems to work pretty well.... As soon as we lose a customer to a NSP I pull out my contract with that customer. I then re-type the contract with a 15% increase and leave the dates blank up the top. When they call me back (like ruby tuesdays) I already have there contract ready to go! This way I never forget they boned me a few months back and I also have a nice price increase for boning me! payup


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

KYsnow;1562394 said:


> cause chaos with the nationals... bid low and never show up and say you did. They don't have boots on the ground to verify. Expect to get fired but you leave them hanging with an angry client and scrambling to find some other sucker. If this happened with multiple suppliers they would be out of the snow biz quickly.


Wonder if a man could really get away with this after signing there contract???? Think they could get ya for not showing up?? Like sue ya or something???? I mean, I wouldnt waist my time to even screw them but I LIKE YOUR THINKING!!!!1Thumbs Up


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

John143;1562412 said:


> YES!! It happens to us every year. But 98% of the time the customer ends up calling us back in the end. I started something new last year and it seems to work pretty well.... As soon as we lose a customer to a NSP I pull out my contract with that customer. I then re-type the contract with a 15% increase and leave the dates blank up the top. When they call me back (like ruby tuesdays) I already have there contract ready to go! This way I never forget they boned me a few months back and I also have a nice price increase for boning me! payup


BRILLIANT!!!! I love it.......... And if you catch them in a pinch they are pretty well gonna sign...... Im gonna steal this right here idea!!!!


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## Rainer (Dec 15, 2011)

snowcrazy;1562413 said:


> Wonder if a man could really get away with this after signing there contract???? Think they could get ya for not showing up?? Like sue ya or something???? I mean, I wouldnt waist my time to even screw them but I LIKE YOUR THINKING!!!!1Thumbs Up


What would be the point of screwing over the nationals if he's damaged his reputation so much by being the guy who didn't show up for them (cuz the account would know the truth) that he couldn't land the work the nationals lose?

That ain't the best way to go about it, methinks.


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yes! Rainer, is right! Plus most NSP's have a clause in the contract that you would be signing that states you can not service that location for at least 2 years. So you really would be only screwing yourself by signing something and then not doing the work.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

KYsnow;1562394 said:


> cause chaos with the nationals... bid low and never show up and say you did. They don't have boots on the ground to verify. Expect to get fired but you leave them hanging with an angry client and scrambling to find some other sucker. If this happened with multiple suppliers they would be out of the snow biz quickly.


Now that is professionalism!

Why don't you just NOT SIGN ON WITH THEM?


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Lots of broad brushes being used about nationals on this thread.

You can sign a contract and not show up all you want. You'll only make yourself look bad. That one location will only one of a 100 location the national has, so it doesn't make a difference when maybe 10% Of all the locations a national has is causing problems.

Most of these decisions for going with nationals come from the corporate level anyway. The store manager has absolutely no say in who they use for a service provider.

And again, I've said it multiple times on this site and I'll say it again. The local contractors around here have their heads so far up their hiney's when it comes to low-balling accounts that they themselves are making the Nationals look like hero's for coming in and stabilizing the market when it comes to pricing.

And I've also said this before, there is good nationals to work for and there are bad, Just like any of your local competition.



..............


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## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

Taking the responsibility and not showing up is the completely wrong thing to do. Not even contracting with a NSP the best thing to do IMO.


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

White Gardens;1562726 said:


> Lots of broad brushes being used about nationals on this thread.


Sounds like you mainly handle the nationals accounts. We all have to make money somehow! Thumbs Up



> You can sign a contract and not show up all you want. You'll only make yourself look bad. That one location will only one of a 100 location the national has, so it doesn't make a difference when maybe 10% Of all the locations a national has is causing problems.


I agree and it's not a wise move on the contractors part.



> Most of these decisions for going with nationals come from the corporate level anyway. The store manager has absolutely no say in who they use for a service provider.


I would have to strongly disagree on this statement. I just had two (2) store managers sign contracts for the remainder of this snow season.



> And again, I've said it multiple times on this site and I'll say it again. The local contractors around here have their heads so far up their hiney's when it comes to low-balling accounts that they themselves are making the Nationals look like hero's for coming in and stabilizing the market when it comes to pricing.


You may be right in some aspects but for the most part guys that remove snow for a living and run a good business take pride on the services they provide. And by providing professional services they are very well compensated for there time. payup



> And I've also said this before, there is good nationals to work for and there are bad, Just like any of your local competition.
> 
> ..............


As I said above. Im glad you can make money working for a NSP but the fact is we as many others have tried it and ended up losing alot of money in the process. Just make sure you read and understand EVERYTHING you sign! :salute:


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Basically, the two managers that you signed got cleared by the corporation to handle the accounts locally. If it was otherwise, I would be shocked.

We do some work for a national, all our eggs are not in that basket. I'll be strait honest, it's BFS. They have great communication, easy reporting services, and payments are on time and what they are supposed to be. Over-all they don't nit-pick us so we can just do our job according the contract and be on our way.

The big account we do went locally for half of what we get paid through BFS........ Go figure.

It's been an over-all good deal for use.

To put local pricing into perspective.........

We did a bid about 2 seasons ago for 12 McDonald's locations for summer maintenance. This contract was for everything under the sun you could think of when providing services. All inclusive. 

Us and the highest bidder were at + - 65k. The winning bid was 25k. This was all a local bidding process.

Our over-head for these locations were 25k. This included fuel, labor, and materials.

Yes we work for a national, but ultimately the pricing and services for either snow or landscaping is just beat all the heck all around the country. The nationals seem to be the scapegoat in the industry.



.......................

My point being is that


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

John143;1562412 said:


> YES!! It happens to us every year. But 98% of the time the customer ends up calling us back in the end. I started something new last year and it seems to work pretty well.... As soon as we lose a customer to a NSP I pull out my contract with that customer. I then re-type the contract with a 15% increase and leave the dates blank up the top. When they call me back (like ruby tuesdays) I already have there contract ready to go! This way I never forget they boned me a few months back and I also have a nice price increase for boning me! payup


how can you forget when you get "boned" ?


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## KYsnow (Sep 22, 2012)

I was just throwing that out there. When you get screwed as bad as I did by one of the nationals you start thinking some crazy stuff.

You wouldn't even have to sign the account or accept it. The nationals wait until the last minute most of time.(case in point accounts are still in flux in Jan with some of these Nationals). Just say yes I can do it for that price and send back incomplete paperwork over a couple week period and then when pressed say you have decided not too accept the work. There back to square one and still scrambling to find some contractor to screw.

They do it to us and act like it's not a big deal so why would this be a big deal if we did it too?


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

KYsnow;1563127 said:


> I was just throwing that out there. When you get screwed as bad as I did by one of the nationals you start thinking some crazy stuff.
> 
> You wouldn't even have to sign the account or accept it. The nationals wait until the last minute most of time.(case in point accounts are still in flux in Jan with some of these Nationals). Just say yes I can do it for that price and send back incomplete paperwork over a couple week period and then when pressed say you have decided not too accept the work. There back to square one and still scrambling to find some contractor to screw.
> 
> They do it to us and act like it's not a big deal so why would this be a big deal if we did it too?


its not a contract unless you sign it .

please explain further , "they do it to US "

are you sober ?

does it even snow in kentucky ?


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

Spool it up;1562978 said:


> how can you forget when you get "boned" ?


It's very easy trust me! No one cares about service anymore. It's all down to the mighty dollar! And hell I lost some accounts down as low as a few cents! :realmad:


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

Spool it up;1564197 said:


> are you sober ?
> 
> does it even snow in kentucky ?


:laughing:


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

John143;1564211 said:


> It's very easy trust me! No one cares about service anymore. It's all down to the mighty dollar! And hell I lost some accounts down as low as a few cents! :realmad:


i trust you ! BUT a contract alleviates the matter , dont you agree ? :laughing:


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## KYsnow (Sep 22, 2012)

Spool it up;1564197 said:


> its not a contract unless you sign it .
> 
> please explain further , "they do it to US "
> 
> ...


can you read?? There are countless threads on this board from contractors unhappy with the way they have been treated by Nationals. Go back and try to read some of the past threads on this subject. If you still can't figure it out I'll bother the fill you in!

That's my point!! you are not obligated to start anything or perform any service until there is an executed contract.


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

Spool it up;1564220 said:


> i trust you ! BUT a contract alleviates the matter , dont you agree ? :laughing:


are you avoiding the void ?:laughing:


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Fill me in here, what the heck is "USM" ?


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Buswell Forest;1564575 said:


> Fill me in here, what the heck is "USM" ?


http://www.usmservices.com/services/snow-and-ice-management/

A national "snow management" company.


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## KYsnow (Sep 22, 2012)

United States Maintence They will wait until last minute to sign. Will demand more than your discussed or signed up for. They will always find some reason why your check wasn't mailed. 

They can cancel your contract with an email with a 1 minute notice. 

That's where I'm coming from when I say it's a two way street. We should wait until the last minute to send in the paperwork (knowing full well we aren't going to of course) drag our feet but all along sound interested when they call.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

beanz27;1564578 said:


> http://www.usmservices.com/services/snow-and-ice-management/
> 
> A national "snow management" company.


That is ********.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

SafeGaurd just contacted me AGAIN. I think I'll find out some more info, no way will I actually work for them, but still, I'll lead them on a bit and see what they want exactly.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Safeguard is in a totally different line and level than USM - they don't give two nickels about you or anyone else. When they have a need, if you fit and are in the right place right then and there, you can get in with them.

Safeguard bought Bank of America's division that deals with foreclosed homes. They probably do more business in one week than USM does in a year.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

900,000+ service calls managed through our centralized service center

Code for complaints .


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Oh I will not be working for them. But considering I've told them to stop messaging me 3 times....well I'll just make them not want to contact me again. I'll drag my feet and fill out the paperwork almost right. I'll be a pain in their ass until they stop contacting me. If that don't work I'll just threaten harassment charges at them lol.


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## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

beanz27;1564717 said:


> Oh I will not be working for them. But considering I've told them to stop messaging me 3 times....well I'll just make them not want to contact me again. I'll drag my feet and fill out the paperwork almost right. I'll be a pain in their ass until they stop contacting me. If that don't work I'll just threaten harassment charges at them lol.


They may already know you are not going to work for them.

Some NSP's actually peruse this site and read what people are saying about them. At least I know that FERRANDINO & SON does. I'm sure others do as well. F/S is an el cheapo provider as well and expects the moon for the pay of a handful of sand.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Laszlo Almasi;1564870 said:


> They may already know you are not going to work for them.
> 
> Some NSP's actually peruse this site and read what people are saying about them.


They can do that if they'd like. I've got nothin but time to kill filling out their crap. That and they don't know my real name or company name. I'm a random person. So they know SOMEONE is going to do this, but thats it.


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Has anyone ever tried retyping their contract to your favor, just to mess with them?

It would be easy to do. Just some random line in there, If USM doesn't pay in 10 days after service a 50% late fee is assessed. etc.

Would be interesting if they signed it and sent it back.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

maelawncare;1565060 said:


> Has anyone ever tried retyping their contract to your favor, just to mess with them?
> 
> It would be easy to do. Just some random line in there, If USM doesn't pay in 10 days after service a 50% late fee is assessed. etc.
> 
> Would be interesting if they signed it and sent it back.


I thought about doing that a couple years ago but my moral compass wouldn't let me follow through. Instead I just turned down their offer completely.


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

maelawncare;1565060 said:


> Has anyone ever tried retyping their contract to your favor, just to mess with them?
> 
> It would be easy to do. Just some random line in there, If USM doesn't pay in 10 days after service a 50% late fee is assessed. etc.
> 
> Would be interesting if they signed it and sent it back.


you cant "mess" with a corporation . you sign their papers or no deal . 
it's not a game , as you'll find out someday .


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## snowplowpro (Feb 7, 2006)

They have all that done by lawyers so that they know if anyone messes around with it they can get them in trouble and the nationals don't lose money .basically its all done the right way all legalized and stuff so it wouldn't even be worth it


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## KYsnow (Sep 22, 2012)

Spool it up;1565188 said:


> you cant "mess" with a corporation . you sign their papers or no deal .
> it's not a game , as you'll find out someday .


We should all be Incorporated or in other words a corporation. If you are not you are risking everything you personally own if something goes wrong when plowing snow.

If a corporation or anyone signs and executes a contract written by themselves, you, the corporation or whomever it is binding. The Nationals send you an unsigned contract that they expect you to sign first. The national will then sign it after you and will send you back an executed contract signed by both parties. Who wrote it, how it was written,who changed it and when does not matter at this point.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

Laszlo Almasi;1564870 said:


> They may already know you are not going to work for them.
> 
> Some NSP's actually peruse this site and read what people are saying about them. At least I know that FERRANDINO & SON does. I'm sure others do as well. F/S is an el cheapo provider as well and expects the moon for the pay of a handful of sand.


I can tell ya how I got them to stop calling............. I told them that I have asked nicely 3 different time to be taken off there call list and that I will be damned If im working for someone with the last name Ferrandino............. I asked them if Mr. Ferrandino could even speak english......... Most of you may think thats classless but I meant it........ I will say it again, im not going to contribute to making a company millions off the backs of you and I............ Anyone who is working for them is guilty of this but I understand that ppl need to work............ Im not in a position where I have work for those bastards and I never will.. I will go out of business before I work for a national......... Its a shame because Ferrandino and sons got the contract for a Shopko store (used to be a pamida store) and Thats where I cut my teeth. It was my very first job and a very good one because I took pride in my work, did a good job and the store management worked well with me. Now a national has it for the first year and store management has been calling corporate shopko mad about the service there getting.......

I could have had it. I knew I wasnt gonna work for them because I had seen others get boned by them but I strung them along all the way to my pre-season inspection and then didnt show up and those Idiots still kept calling.............


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

beanz27;1564873 said:


> They can do that if they'd like. I've got nothin but time to kill filling out their crap. That and they don't know my real name or company name. I'm a random person. So they know SOMEONE is going to do this, but thats it.


Im with you on this, Im all about waisting there time.............. Hell as long as its not snowing in the winter ive got nothing but time to mess with them........ LOL


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

KYsnow;1565602 said:


> We should all be Incorporated or in other words a corporation. If you are not you are risking everything you personally own if something goes wrong when plowing snow.
> 
> If a corporation or anyone signs and executes a contract written by themselves, you, the corporation or whomever it is binding. The Nationals send you an unsigned contract that they expect you to sign first. The national will then sign it after you and will send you back an executed contract signed by both parties. Who wrote it, how it was written,who changed it and when does not matter at this point.


to answer your first question /comment to me or whoever . It's called being bonded .

doesent matter what the contract reads ? and you signed it ? sounds like Obamacare , you must vote on it to see whats in it .


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

snowplowpro;1562089 said:


> The ruby Tuesday's by me in nnj are inside malls there not private parking lots


Same by me. I've never seen a Ruby Tuesday that wasn't in a mall.


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

Snow Commandor;1565915 said:


> Same by me. I've never seen a Ruby Tuesday that wasn't in a mall.


Funny! Here In PA, I never seen one (in-side) a mall. Must be only in NY or NJ?


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

maelawncare;1565060 said:


> Has anyone ever tried retyping their contract to your favor, just to mess with them?
> 
> It would be easy to do. Just some random line in there, If USM doesn't pay in 10 days after service a 50% late fee is assessed. etc.
> 
> Would be interesting if they signed it and sent it back.


Won't work! I never seen any NSP sign any contract they sent. They send them out blank. You sign and send it back. That's it!! Oh and hopefully you get paid! :crying:


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## santaclause (Jan 11, 2008)

we have a stand alone rubys in northern ny >>>


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## bln (Feb 12, 2004)

Ruby Tuesday used to be in a mall now its a stand alone.


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

John143;1565945 said:


> Won't work! I never seen any NSP sign any contract they sent. They send them out blank. You sign and send it back. That's it!! Oh and hopefully you get paid! :crying:


we didnt get that far with them . thats dangerous business . sign a blank anything . with all the identity theft going on .

again, another classic act of a corp taking advantage of a struggling company . but i cant believe someone would sign a blank piece of pap:laughing:er .


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## rcn971 (Jan 28, 2011)

We have a stand alone one and one in the mall here in NJ


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## Spool it up (Oct 30, 2012)

rc , did you sign a blank contract too ?


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## rcn971 (Jan 28, 2011)

Spool it up;1566239 said:


> rc , did you sign a blank contract too ?


Uhmmmmmm......No. I personally, only being here for a short time learned quickly to stay away from Nationals. I never needed any experience to learn not to sign a blank piece of paper.....that's just called common sense and fortunately I am of the crowd that was born with some, as I am convinced it can't be learnedThumbs Up


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Just for the heck of it, I could post their contract for laughing purposes. I haven't signed anything, nor will I, but just to waste their time, I contacted both USM and Safegaurd. Both sent contracts.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

rcn971;1566248 said:


> Uhmmmmmm......No. I personally, only being here for a short time learned quickly to stay away from Nationals. I never needed any experience to learn not to sign a blank piece of paper.....that's just called common sense and fortunately I am of the crowd that was born with some, as I am convinced it can't be learnedThumbs Up


I didnt need experience neither............ Makes two of us atleast..........Thumbs Up


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

beanz27;1566276 said:


> Just for the heck of it, I could post their contract for laughing purposes. I haven't signed anything, nor will I, but just to waste their time, I contacted both USM and Safegaurd. Both sent contracts.


Excellent!!! I love it.... Good for you man. We think a lot alike...


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

I have no sympathy for anyone who signs a contract with _ _ _ , then complains about how they got screwed! Anyone who would sign that contract is nuts!


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

Spool it up;1566050 said:


> we didnt get that far with them . thats dangerous business . sign a blank anything . with all the identity theft going on .
> 
> again, another classic act of a corp taking advantage of a struggling company . but i cant believe someone would sign a blank piece of pap:laughing:er .


I never said I worked for or signed anything from USM. I just simply stated how they do business. Have a couple more  you'll be alright. :laughing:


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

When people are saying they will not sign a blank contract I'm assuming it a real fully typed contract, just not signed. I send all my contracts out that way. This way if someone makes changes it gives you the chance to review or make additional changes again before your customer has a signed contract from you


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Superior L & L;1566549 said:


> When people are saying they will not sign a blank contract I'm assuming it a real fully typed contract, just not signed. I send all my contracts out that way. This way if someone makes changes it gives you the chance to review or make additional changes again before your customer has a signed contract from you


Just was going to say the same thing. All the info is on it , They send it to you to review and sign it ,they then sign it and send you a copy.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

snowcrazy;1566301 said:


> I didnt need experience neither............ Makes two of us atleast..........Thumbs Up


Make that 3



snowcrazy;1566303 said:


> Excellent!!! I love it.... Good for you man. We think a lot alike...


What are the other companies I can waste their time?

Just got a call from Safegaurd today. I don't think they'll call me back. They said they have nothing snow related in MN at this time, but were wondering if I offer any other contractor services they should know about.

I said, (in the most *******/hick voice I could) "Well I do quite a bit of things, not sure if you'd be interested in them. Tell ya what, I'll give it a go, whatcha got going on out this here direction? Gotta kill someone or what? I learned how to do that in prison back in quantanimo bay in 86. So if you guys need that, oh or hay baling, you give me a call.

They hung up.

Ps: Never went to prison or quantinmo.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

I wonder if the national companies have to take "so much" off the top because of all the office staff they have to employ to deal with all the riffraff playing games with them, and people who can't deal with super simple 1min phone call to check in a service or take 2 minutes to get a form signed. National companies are here to stay if you don't want to deal with their insurance or paperwork then don't. Its that simple. Nobody is making you. "Your stores" are corporate entities "your store manager" isn't the decision maker anymore. Find other work. Personally I like working for the nationals we work for I hope to expand the work we do for all of them in the future. Sure payment is slow but knowing that ahead of time, deal with it.....personally I don't have time to play games because I'm bitter that a corporation is trying to be efficient.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Longae29;1566567 said:


> I wonder if the national companies have to take "so much" off the top because of all the office staff they have to employ to deal with all the riffraff playing games with them, and people who can't deal with super simple 1min phone call to check in a service or take 2 minutes to get a form signed. National companies are here to stay if you don't want to deal with their insurance or paperwork then don't. Its that simple. Nobody is making you. "Your stores" are corporate entities "your store manager" isn't the decision maker anymore. Find other work. Personally I like working for the nationals we work for I hope to expand the work we do for all of them in the future. Sure payment is slow but knowing that ahead of time, deal with it.....personally I don't have time to play games because I'm bitter that a corporation is trying to be efficient.


Just like any other business. Back office expenses.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Do some of you here read what you write? Do you have any concept of customer relations and or running a business? This isn't meant for the Superiors, Grandviews, JD's and I'm sure a few other real business', it's meant for these other people that give the impression that any customer should praise god that they are willing to provide them services.

To the guys knocking nationals:

1) If you don't want to work for them, don't. Leave it at that. I've had good and bad experiences but the bottom line is that if you agree to certain terms, that's what they are - and with any national provider that may include pictures and what you see as senseless call in's. All they all a pile of roses, nope. Do you really think you are getting the whole both sides of the story here on the internet???

2) The dude that "played" with Safeguard. Do you have any clue as to who or what they are? We AVERAGE 400k a year with these types of companies - and that's down from the 500+k we were doing before the current administration was elected. Do you know that ONE guy in ONE truck with ONE mower bills more in ONE day than a three man crew out mowing? Do you know he nets more than a two man crew in one day? Snow isn't quite as good but it is better than normal high margin commercial accounts. My preservation crews before the election, 3 guys a 10 hour day, billed more in one day than a two man mowing crew did in one week and netted two or three times as much.

3) Do you really people are signing blank contracts? An unsigned by the other party contract is not blank - and if you are signing anything without numbers in there, you deserve to be punted.

Ask yourselves what or where do you want your business to be in 5, 10 then 20 years? Are you guys doing this as a hobby, to get by for now? Because that's what it sure sounds like. If you are in this for the long run and want to succeed, you all ought to really re evaluate what you say, what you put in print and how you treat potential customers.

A customer feeds me, they feed my employees. 

They allow us to drive the trucks, buy equipment that we have. 

Without that customer, you have no business. 

A contract with a customer does not give you free reign of their checkbook - although you local guys keep doing it, we got two more disatisfied due to over billing customers this year.

YOU have to look out for the customers best interest, that doesn't mean servicing them and billing them till they bleed, just cause you had a contract - key word is had, cause a real company will have it next year.

A new customer is very hard to get and extremly easy to loose. They are all different and require effort on your part at learning what their expectations are - THEIR expectations, not yours, they are paying the bill, not you. They don't want salt, no problem, when someone falls or wrecks, maybe they will change their mind. 

You do not dictate to a customer, they are the boss, not you. There's an art to education, most adults do not want to be told by another what to do - you have to learn how to steer a person in the direction you want them to go, gently, and most times this requires biting your tongue and never thinking "I told you so".

A great customer is one that you have earned their trust - this is why you see the same comapny service a place year after year no matter what price you bid. Maintaining that trust is a 24/7 job.

It's a small world, burn a bridge and it's gone forever. That property manger at that little rinky dink apartment may be managing 1000 units a few years from now. Every customer demands your 100% attention.

You know, I really think that the majority that read this will think FU, but maybe just one of you will look in the mirror and figure it out. This is a proffesional business with room for part timers, but even you part timers need to carry your self accordingly.

Note: to the people that are gonna scream liability, you really think I carry all the liability all the time? And when I do, the liability is zero due to the service we provide. There's a time and a place for things and in this part of the world it isn't often.


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

framer1901;1566653 said:


> Do some of you here read what you write? Do you have any concept of customer relations and or running a business? This isn't meant for the Superiors, Grandviews, JD's and I'm sure a few other real business', it's meant for these other people that give the impression that any customer should praise god that they are willing to provide them services.
> 
> To the guys knocking nationals:
> 
> ...


The hell with mowing grass!! You should be one of them guys selling Cd's on t.v. How to start and run a business in 3 easy steps!


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

framer1901;1566653 said:


> This isn't meant for the Superiors, *Grandviews*, JD's and I'm sure a few other real business'


Grandview runs a real business? That's going to be news to him LOL


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Camden;1566698 said:


> Grandview runs a real business? That's going to be news to him LOL


I keep saying next year.


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## Wilnip (Oct 4, 2011)

Well said Framer.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

framer1901;1566653 said:


> Do some of you here read what you write? Do you have any concept of customer relations and or running a business? This isn't meant for the Superiors, Grandviews, JD's and I'm sure a few other real business', it's meant for these other people that give the impression that any customer should praise god that they are willing to provide them services.
> 
> To the guys knocking nationals:
> 
> ...


I definetly don't think "FU". I can tell by the way you responded you are prolly one hell of a business man. I consider myselft to be one hell of a businessman also, but I just prefer run my business where I line my bank account, not anyone elses. I also will run my business with customers signing MY CONTRACT. I mow and plow for several different restaraunt chains and they all sign my contracts. When Ferrandino and sons sent me there contract not only was it hideous but I thought to myselft what idiot would work for these people???

Weather you make 400K off the nationals or 25K, your still under there gun.

You think what you want about them being the boss........ Thats prolly true since you signed THERE HIDEOUS CONTRACT. I run my business and I AM THE BOSS. I do things my way which is with the utmost confidence that there not going to find anyone to do a better job................

With that being said, do I make 400K a year? Hell no but I prefer staying small with a handful of employees and handful of trucks........... Could I grow???? Yep, don't want to though. With more work comes more responsibility and Ive decided to stop where Im at now........

I looked at myself in the mirror 10 years ago (you asked us to do so above) and said I would be successful in this business and boy have I....... And Ive done it all with me calling the shots and all my customers signing my contracts...  Thats just the way it is and if everyone else was this way these junk ass nationals would be no more.......


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

snowcrazy;1566762 said:


> I definetly don't think "FU". I can tell by the way you responded you are prolly one hell of a business man. I consider myselft to be one hell of a businessman also, but I just prefer run my business where I line my bank account, not anyone elses. I also will run my business with customers signing MY CONTRACT. I mow and plow for several different restaraunt chains and they all sign my contracts. When Ferrandino and sons sent me there contract not only was it hideous but I thought to myselft what idiot would work for these people???
> 
> Weather you make 400K off the nationals or 25K, your still under there gun.
> 
> ...


Now this guy here I could agree with 100%!! Very well said!!  And that's the way it should be! last time I checked people start a business to MAKE MONEY and NOT line the middle mans pockets with green! Face the facts! You don't own your own business making $400K+ a year. You WORK for a company getting paid that amount. So at the end of the day I may not be making 400K off a NSP, BUT yes BUT I work for myself and answer to MYSELF!! NO MIDDLE MAN! NO PHOTOS! NO VOICE MAILS and NO begging someone to get my pay check on time or add some dumb line on a cert!


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

And before I get into a pissing match with anyone...... Keep in mind the reason for this topic was USM, losing another account.... And why?? Well, I know or knew the two stores in my location would be mine so.... I thought id be a nice guy and spread the word on here and perhaps, one of you guys could make a call to your local store and pick up another account for this season. I could go on all night long about NSP's and how they destroyed this profession but as I just stated that was not my reason for starting this topic to began with.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

John143;1566785 said:


> Now this guy here I could agree with 100%!! Very well said!!  And that's the way it should be! last time I checked people start a business to MAKE MONEY and NOT line the middle mans pockets with green! Face the facts! You don't own your own business making $400K+ a year. You WORK for a company getting paid that amount. So at the end of the day I may not be making 400K off a NSP, BUT yes BUT I work for myself and answer to MYSELF!! NO MIDDLE MAN! NO PHOTOS! NO VOICE MAILS and NO begging someone to get my pay check on time or add some dumb line on a cert!


Appreciate the pat on the back! You and I definetly see eye to eye here........

The funny thing is, what you mentioned above is how they screw most of the contractors that sign with them.......... Per national, "you didnt use the ivr correctly and we have no proof the work was completed" and other excuses that they can come up with per there contract................ Most people that are backing the nationals on here just havent been screwed YET! It will come, give it time.

Like I said in another post, I know a fella personally that got screwed by a national..... He got paid and had a good experience for his first year....... The next year after using there Ivr system exactly the same way as the year before got burned for 3 months of mowing because per the national "you didnt use the Ivr system correctly"............ In time they will burn most all of you and I hope you all remember this post....... Like I said, if everyone would quit working for the evil, they would be no more and then you all could be the boss again..............


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Besides the boss again (always nice) you would be making more $$$.

I don't remember who said it, but they are right, if you work for someone else you make them money. Work for yourself, you make yourself money. I'd rather make $50 on my own then $75 working for others.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

beanz27;1566839 said:


> I'd rather make $50 on my own then $75 working for others.




I sure hope you wrote that before you really thought about it because that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on here.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

I did think about it. I look at it like this. That 75 that i made from joe blow, he made it into 250 for himself. If I make 50 myself for myself, i know it came from me and only me, and I probably can turn that 50 into 275 for me.


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## rcn971 (Jan 28, 2011)

Camden;1566864 said:


> I sure hope you wrote that before you really thought about it because that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on here.


+1.......I do enjoy the work I do.....but I do it to make the most possible amount of money I can.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

beanz27;1566867 said:


> I did think about it. I look at it like this. That 75 that i made from joe blow, he made it into 250 for himself. If I make 50 myself for myself, i know it came from me and only me, and I probably can turn that 50 into 275 for me.


By your "logic" (I use the term loosely) couldn't YOU turn that $75 into $300+ in your magic money converter?


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Whatever. I don't have no magic way to make money. The way I make money is invest it into something that makes me more money. As in new parts for the truck, or a new truck, or skidloader etc. You know that new truck your boss has? You know that 2003 truck you drive? There's a reason he has the new one and you don't. He's the boss. If the boss knows what he is doing business wise, he will make money. I choose to be my own boss to make more money for ME, not make someone else money.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

beanz27;1566884 said:


> Whatever. I don't have no magic way to make money. The way I make money is invest it into something that makes me more money. As in new parts for the truck, or a new truck, or skidloader etc. You know that new truck your boss has? You know that 2003 truck you drive? There's a reason he has the new one and you don't. He's the boss. If the boss knows what he is doing business wise, he will make money. I choose to be my own boss to make more money for ME, not make someone else money.


Thinking about the last couple of posts.

you say you are your own boss and stuff,fine, So lets say you bid a place for a national,you tell them 100k for the season. They cut you a check in full the next day,Are you happy? Yes ,you got your price. Now you find out that they got 300k for it ,should you be mad?


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Well, I did only expect one to get it and my expectations are high...

Another way of looking at it - and the last.

The general contractors that build houses and buildings, some are individuals and some are mega companies, these general contractors are evil too because they are making money off the plumbers, electricians and carpenters?? Have you ever seen one of those contracts that you sign doing a larger commercial job? The penalties that can be involved, the retainage for 6 months or a year after completion? 

I should hate and abuse that general contractor that I worked for all those years? That ******* made how much off of us?? Or should I be thankfull that we worked together under his terms at my bid price and completed how many projects, feeding how many familes? 

And yes, if I bid 100k, got it and found out it was worth 300k, I would be pissed, at myself and no others but somehow I try to blame Big J.

Just like I drove my truck to work this morning verses riding my horse in, times change, markets change - adapt.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

framer1901;1566653 said:


> Do some of you here read what you write? Do you have any concept of customer relations and or running a business? This isn't meant for the Superiors, Grandviews, JD's and I'm sure a few other real business', it's meant for these other people that give the impression that any customer should praise god that they are willing to provide them services.
> 
> To the guys knocking nationals:
> 
> ...


Oh boy, you shouldn't have typed something that actually made sense. Thumbs Up


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

No. I would get pissed when I bid 100k, and let them beat me down, then I find out they made 300k on the job. Pissed at myself, for settling for less than I deserve, while putting money in the pockets of a middle man.As long as I get what I reasonably ask for its none of my business what the other guy makes.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

grandview;1566937 said:


> Thinking about the last couple of posts.
> 
> you say you are your own boss and stuff,fine, So lets say you bid a place for a national,you tell them 100k for the season. They cut you a check in full the next day,Are you happy? Yes ,you got your price. Now you find out that they got 300k for it ,should you be mad?





framer1901;1566997 said:


> Well, I did only expect one to get it and my expectations are high...
> 
> Another way of looking at it - and the last.
> 
> ...


No you shouldn't hate the guy who is working with you or hires you to help him. Thats not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I'm not going to work for someone that makes money by doing NOTHING at all. Sitting in a nice warm office, while I go out when it's -30 at 2 AM to do the job HE was hired to do. Sub out things, fine by me, as long as your actually going to do it yourself sometimes. Nationals do nothing besides what you yourself could do already, and they hire you to do it for less then you will do it. The guy that plows his own things and hires a few subs, he's doing the same work. Same thing with the "huge contractors" they hire qualified people to do things that they can't, or don't have time to do. Hiring a team of general contractors for a house or something with a deadline is fine, but something like snow, and you do NOTHING AT ALL and make money doing it. No. That pisses me off.



grandview;1566937 said:


> Thinking about the last couple of posts.
> 
> you say you are your own boss and stuff,fine, So lets say you bid a place for a national,you tell them 100k for the season. They cut you a check in full the next day,Are you happy? Yes ,you got your price. Now you find out that they got 300k for it ,should you be mad?


I'd be selling myself short if I bid that low for something that high of a price. If I'd have the business ability to do it myself, I'd see if I could do the job myself for that 300k. I wouldn't be mad at the company that made 200k off me doing the work, since I was the one that accepted their job.



jhenderson9196;1567025 said:


> No. I would get pissed when I bid 100k, and let them beat me down, then I find out they made 300k on the job. Pissed at myself, for settling for less than I deserve, while putting money in the pockets of a middle man.As long as I get what I reasonably ask for its none of my business what the other guy makes.


I agree.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

What I'm saying is you bid a place and they accept your price paid in full,why should you get mad that they in turn was able to sell it for more.You got your money you wanted. No fan of nationals ,lost some places myself. But in a tiny,tiny way they work hard to get the places to bid. Don't forget ,they are selling a service to a company and that takes time and money so they have costs too. As for why is he out there busting ass at 2am,well you said "I'm the Boss" .His job is to keep getting work for the workers.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

If I bid a price and got what I bid, then I came up with a price I am happy with, what others do with their business is their choice.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Another thing to chew on.

I don't know why most guys on this site refuse to be a sub for anyone.

Lots of industries and business run this way. Home builders have subs. Cell tower nationals have subs. Road contractors have subs.

Why is the mentality that much different for our industry??????



..............


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## bln (Feb 12, 2004)

Beanz27, have you ever worked for the union? They have the same mentality. We get our hands dirty so someone else can get rich.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

bln;1567224 said:


> Beanz27, have you ever worked for the union? They have the same mentality. We get our hands dirty so someone else can get rich.


No and I won't lol.

I have no issues working for someone who is actually doing something. As in the boss started the company, and is still the boss and he actually does something. I refuse to work for someone that does absolutely nothing at all.


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## bln (Feb 12, 2004)

Ok, I wasn't trying to be mean or start anything. I have a few buddies who do and we just don't see eye to eye. With that being said the boss who sits on his rear in an office while others are working have more then likely deserved it. At one time they were in the trenches and have put way more into what goes on then we could imagine. At one time my plow truck was down and Iran dispatch for a few storms. It was nice but not for me. The next storms I was shoveler. Got stir crazy I guess.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Naive - believeing that a small business owner hasn't done every job his employees have to do and then some, believeing that a small business owner doesn't lose sleep over any issues related to work, believeing that the small business owner is out the door two minutes after the last employee is and gets to work just before you do, believing that a NSP has no overhead and does nothing.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

framer1901;1567328 said:


> Naive - believeing that a small business owner hasn't done every job his employees have to do and then some, believeing that a small business owner doesn't lose sleep over any issues related to work, believeing that the small business owner is out the door two minutes after the last employee is and gets to work just before you do, believing that a NSP has no overhead and does nothing.


Couldn't of said it better than myself.

........................


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## bln (Feb 12, 2004)

Wise words Framer19.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

grandview;1566937 said:


> Thinking about the last couple of posts.
> 
> you say you are your own boss and stuff,fine, So lets say you bid a place for a national,you tell them 100k for the season. They cut you a check in full the next day,Are you happy? Yes ,you got your price. Now you find out that they got 300k for it ,should you be mad?


Nope, because i ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT place a bid for a national.........

I wish everyone was a pure in certain ways as I am......... Lets put it this way, your using big numbers above so lets keep using them. If a national would say take over this strip mall for instance at 100K for the season and i would have bid say 50K for the job..... I wouldnt take it. Plain and simple. I do WHAT I BELIEVE IN. Some people let money run there lives. Ive found ways to make money for me and me only and If everyone else would do that we would all be better off when it comes to sub-contractors......

Im not talking about just snow here either. Im talking home building, power line running, foundation digging, whatever the case may be things would be much much better without a middle man in ANY instance!!!!!! There are folks out there being boned by sub-contractors in many many different lines of work...................... Everyone would be better off to do what would help us all and grow a sack and not take work from sub-contractors..... Quit letting money run your lives and do what makes since and thats make yourself money so companys like USM can stop skimming off the top of money that is potentially yours and mine......

I understand that subcontracting is going nowhere.... Its here to stay, but it would be gone if everyone was like me, and we would all make more money!!!!! GUARENTEED!!


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

OK,I think your missing my point You tell them 100k for you to plow. You get paid in full ,what do you care if they are making money off the same property?
2nd.Without the middleman thing.If no middleman and everyone does their own work ,where do you make money? Store plows its own lot. Guy builds his own house. guy fixes his own car. You say you want to be your own boss ,well as boss you need to make money and if you come to terms with someone ,money is being made


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Keep the list going - what about anything you eat, the grocery store is a middle man. The fuel you buy, paint, lumber, snowplows it goes on forever. We couldn't survive in todays age without middlemen.

There is some sort of middle man in everything you do except sleeping with your wife and some of that isn't one on one.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Unless you're plowing gods house you're making money off of someone elses back.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Longae29;1567397 said:


> Unless you're plowing gods house you're making money off of someone elses back.


Maybe he hired a national to take care of it.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

grandview;1567372 said:


> OK,I think your missing my point You tell them 100k for you to plow. You get paid in full ,what do you care if they are making money off the same property?
> 2nd.Without the middleman thing.If no middleman and everyone does their own work ,where do you make money? Store plows its own lot. Guy builds his own house. guy fixes his own car. You say you want to be your own boss ,well as boss you need to make money and if you come to terms with someone ,money is being made


Yeah, see you must be missing my point...... I tell them nothing.... I hang up! I WILL NOT MAKE THEM MONEY! you know what I mean by middle man, lol............ Was there nationals 20 years ago????? There has been with home building, grocery, yada yada for years.......... This garbage is somewhat recent in snow removal/landscaping with these nationals and its been a headache ever since they have come along.

You guys keep stuffing there bank accounts with money while I stuff minepayup:salute:............... keep calling that Ivr system, taking photos and signing there worm hole contracts and I hope to see your post about being screwed by them soon........... I dont wish that on ppl most times but the past few posts have tried to make me look dumb......... I don't care how many dam posts you have or how long you all have been members on here. That doesnt make you smarter than me


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

As stated,i lost some accounts to them and don't work for any. I don't care how you make money ,not my business. Yes there was nationals 20 years ago,dealt with them back then too.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

beanz27;1567246 said:


> No and I won't lol.
> 
> I have no issues working for someone who is actually doing something. As in the boss started the company, and is still the boss and he actually does something. I refuse to work for someone that does absolutely nothing at all.


Lol, thanks for the good laugh. All decent sized company's owners do not work in the company. They work on the company doing big picture items and guiding the ship.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

beanz27;1567128 said:


> No you shouldn't hate the guy who is working with you or hires you to help him. Thats not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I'm not going to work for someone that makes money by doing NOTHING at all. Sitting in a nice warm office, while I go out when it's -30 at 2 AM to do the job HE was hired to do. Sub out things, fine by me, as long as your actually going to do it yourself sometimes. Nationals do nothing besides what you yourself could do already, and they hire you to do it for less then you will do it. The guy that plows his own things and hires a few subs, he's doing the same work. Same thing with the "huge contractors" they hire qualified people to do things that they can't, or don't have time to do. Hiring a team of general contractors for a house or something with a deadline is fine, but something like snow, and you do NOTHING AT ALL and make money doing it. No. That pisses .


While I don't work for a national right now, but I'm sure I will at some point if the terms are agreeable. 
I believe your statement is way off saying they do nothing. They are contract adminastrators and great sales people. Now if you believe you are good enough to get a meeting with best buys Vice President of facility's managent and sell him on the idea that you will do a great job of one site in your town then I guess you don't need nationals. Me I'm not that good


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

grandview;1567399 said:


> Maybe he hired a national to take care of it.


I'm sure he's still waiting for his pay check too!! :laughing:


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Mick76;1561021 said:


> Don't get too excited guys as another national will jump in and take their place..........


yep... accounts we keep trying for years to get just one district of a handful of local stores, won't sign us, but then go to a national, and we do the work for them anyway, at a reduced rate with a lot of extra headaches... We only deal with two nationals currently and if this year is not the last year, hopefully we have enough of our own in-house accounts to replace them for next season.

like with usm and walmart... maybe it was ones fault over the other, who knows, i know both are crappy to work for, and with walmarts stupid 5hr per service rule, no wonder every walmart has a billion slip and falls.. Just the other day, one woman who was offered $50k from a jan 2011 slip and fall, is now suing everyone listed for an undisclosed amount because she cant work the rest of her life :realmad:

These chain stores always thing, we're using the big company! not ABC plowing service from our local town, then look who shows up? good job or not, they're not happy, feel jipped and always complain because theres no customer to client relation.

We do a bunch of locations currently for a national, and i could care less what the managers thing, complain about, ask for a extra bag of calcium, LOL, sorry, we don't work for you we work for ABC national. Call them and ask. Tomorrow we could be fired, we're likely only here for one season then next its outbid by 6$ per push, what is there to lose? Do your job and get paid and thats all you can ask for with these places.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

framer1901;1567328 said:


> Naive - believeing that a small business owner hasn't done every job his employees have to do and then some, believeing that a small business owner doesn't lose sleep over any issues related to work, believeing that the small business owner is out the door two minutes after the last employee is and gets to work just before you do, believing that a NSP has no overhead and does nothing.


They are a company, so obviously they have overhead. And I'm not bashing any small business, as I personally know exactly how hard it is to do a small business. I will not work for the extremely large companies. Thats it. Yes they were small at one time blah blah, whatever. I have no issues with small companies, or even local companies for that matter. I just won't work for someone that hasn't had anything to do with their own business except cashing their payroll check in years. Yes they worked to get there, and depending on the company I may change my thinking.



Superior L & L;1567506 said:


> Lol, thanks for the good laugh. All decent sized company's owners do not work in the company. They work on the company doing big picture items and guiding the ship.


I know that. If they are still involved in the company thats fine. You guys seem to think that I'm saying that as soon as an owner isn't doing what they hire someone else to do, that they as a company suck or something. Thats not what I am saying. What I am saying is I will not work for the guy who does nothing. As in nationals.

Say what you will, yes they do have good sales to get to where they are. But I will not work for someone that just subs out all the work they are hired to do. Plain and simple.

You can work for them, but I will not.


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## Drakeslayer (Feb 11, 2011)

beanz27;1568365 said:


> They are a company, so obviously they have overhead. And I'm not bashing any small business, as I personally know exactly how hard it is to do a small business. I will not work for the extremely large companies. Thats it. Yes they were small at one time blah blah, whatever. I have no issues with small companies, or even local companies for that matter. I just won't work for someone that hasn't had anything to do with their own business except cashing their payroll check in years. Yes they worked to get there, and depending on the company I may change my thinking.
> 
> I know that. If they are still involved in the company thats fine. You guys seem to think that I'm saying that as soon as an owner isn't doing what they hire someone else to do, that they as a company suck or something. Thats not what I am saying. What I am saying is I will not work for the guy who does nothing. As in nationals.
> 
> ...


Beans- you can no longer buy anything from any where with that logic.


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## TehTDK (Jan 17, 2013)

Superior L & L;1566549 said:


> When people are saying they will not sign a blank contract I'm assuming it a real fully typed contract, just not signed. I send all my contracts out that way. This way if someone makes changes it gives you the chance to review or make additional changes again before your customer has a signed contract from you


So its bad either way. You make some changes and sign it, then send it in. They retcon your changes and then sign it and your are still screwed . If they make changes to it, arently they legally required to return it to you for you to resign it as a sign of acceptance of the changes they have made to it?


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