# Over night treated salt test



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Usually keep truck inside shop when done salting.Decided to take home and see how the salt held up.6 degs and salt was fairly loose,the pile was a big lump but broke up easily.I keep my salt inside and usually don't load salt until snow stops so it was a dry load.It seems the key is to keep it dry,which is sometimes a challenge.If this was untreated it would have been a big rock.Still amazed at the ability to burn down to bare pavement at crazy low temps,had puddles at 10 degs!


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## TPCLandscaping (Jan 19, 2012)

that looks like sand?... whats the salt treated with?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Dry salt is the key!

I got in a heated debate years ago with the local towns "city employees", the township guys, my guys, and a few others.

Ended up at the end of the night, my shop's beer fridge and freezer had no more beer in it, but a ton of coffee cans full of every "senerio" of salt you could dream up.

Dry salt did not bridge, freeze together, nothing. Just poured right out of the coffee can a week later.


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## snowplower1 (Jan 15, 2014)

Thats interesting! Our salt distributor just got a big load of pretreated salt. Thinking about using it when the temps get ridiculously low or nights like tonight we just got hit with quite a lot of ice.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Treated will still freeze together in a salter if wet when loaded.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

TPCLandscaping said:


> that looks like sand?... whats the salt treated with?


 Just the generic treated salt from the terminal,probably cal,and some vegetable additive,smells like molasses.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> Treated will still freeze together in a salter if wet when loaded.


Sure does! That's why if the timings right I wait to load salt after it stops snowing.I'd say 75% of the time I start plowing after snowfall ends .If I load up during snowfall I load as little as is needed . Plus plowing with 5 tons of salt isn't my idea of a good time! Many don't have an option,have to load when supplier is open.Its a challenge to keep dry and any left over becomes a brick depending on temps.I had some wet treated harden up around my auger inside my heated shop!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Treated will still freeze together in a salter if wet when loaded.


Especially if the water content of the additive is too high.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

leigh said:


> Just the generic treated salt from the terminal,probably cal,and some vegetable additive,smells like molasses.


Looks like ours that we treat with GeoMelt\beet juice.

Which reminds me.....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Especially if the water content of the additive is too high.


Oh god... don't bring the word additive into this thread...


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Beat juice that is the answer 

Sure it is...Not IMO.

When temps drops to 10 or so it will crust up. Dry is the answer.

Also....I would love to some day own a heated floor in my salt bin.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

On a Call said:


> Beat juice that is the answer
> 
> Sure it is...Not IMO.
> 
> When temps drops to 10 or so it will crust up. Dry is the answer.


We've been using it since 1982. Dry salt AND beet juice is the key. But still, a crust is far better than a solid block of salt in a spreader.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

On a Call said:


> Beat juice that is the answer
> 
> Sure it is...Not IMO.
> 
> ...


Why would you want a heated floor???...To attract moisture???...The floor is heated...But the ground underneath is not...Does not seem like a very bright idea


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Oh god... don't bring the word additive into this thread...


I just put some Polar Power in the Cat...I will wait for Snoexpert to chime in and call me a No good useless poop flinging Union Monkey...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Defcon 5 said:


> Why would you want a heated floor???...To attract moisture???...The floor is heated...But the ground underneath is not...Does not seem like a very bright idea


Pretty sure the concrete would blow up too.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Pretty sure the concrete would blow up too.


Between the Very Hungry Treated Salt and The Concrete...You would have a nuclear reaction...


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> Between the Very Hungry Treated Salt and The Concrete...You would have a nuclear reaction...


Thats how I heat my shop-30 tons of hungry salt on concrete floor creates massive amounts of heat,i leave all the doors open and it stays a constant 75deg. The other day I had a herd of deer camping out in my shop enjoying the warmth and the molasses salt lick!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Spread some beet juice treated salt this morning on our flash freeze, Shirley do love that stuff. Days like today I can cut my usage almost in half because it works so dang good.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Spread some beet juice treated salt this morning on our flash freeze, Shirley do love that stuff. Days like today I can cut my usage almost in half because it works so dang good.


If Shirley likes it, what more can be said !


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

leigh said:


> If Shirley likes it, what more can be said !


Alot...But most of it will get deleted


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Are guys yanking my chain ??? or what ???
I had heard and read that the beat juice was not a cost effective addition to saltings ?? Or, had I again be lead astray ??

If you are adding it...do you add at the time of spreading or mix it in as you load into storage ?


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

What he has is magic treated salt. The port makes it them selfs in a pug mill.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

One thing I do before my load is delivered I put a few tons of straight salt on the bottom and have gateway dump the load on top. Any thing that leaks from the pile goes into the straight salt! Straight salt will hold the liquid making a mild treated salt


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

So where do we get beats juice ? 

Tell me more

Does make salt taste like sugar ??


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Can't say I tasted it! I does have a very strong smell to it!!!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

On a Call said:


> Are guys yanking my chain ??? or what ???
> I had heard and read that the beat juice was not a cost effective addition to saltings ?? Or, had I again be lead astray ??
> 
> If you are adding it...do you add at the time of spreading or mix it in as you load into storage ?


Where did you read and hear this?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

On a Call said:


> Are guys yanking my chain ??? or what ???
> I had heard and read that the beat juice was not a cost effective addition to saltings ?? Or, had I again be lead astray ??
> 
> If you are adding it...do you add at the time of spreading or mix it in as you load into storage ?


One reason for these additives is to hold the liquid on the salt crystals.Try adding 6 gals of calc on a ton of salt and see what happens! If you want to spray at spinner that's a different story.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Where did you read and hear this?


Years ago I was given three pallets of magic salt in 50 pound bags. We used it mostly on side walks and I gave some away also. This was during one of those shortages. It seemed to work just like regular salt perhaps a bit better ?

Then I started a contract with the city here doing summer spraying work. One day was talking with the foreman about beet treated salt that they had purchased, his claim was " what joke and rip off " we had less affect and a mess on our hands. We will never while I am here use it again. They were using it on parking lots, streets, and sidewalks. Bulk no doubt.

That is where I drew my knowledge from.

What is your experience Mark ?


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

However I have been known to work in Dowflake into our bulk during cold snaps for better melt down.

And oh, to add to my comment on the beet juice. Again this was like 15 years ago. I met with a guy from a Michigan sugar beet plant who was selling the by product. He had what was he claimed to be data showing how well it worked when added to salt. 

Photos of ice covered streets perhaps two inches thick. Both sides were salted one side had beet juice added. His time lapsed photos showed a much faster melt down in 15 degree temps. The other side due to temps did not melt. So does it cause a lower temp ice control with a safe product ??


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

On a Call said:


> It seemed to work just like regular salt perhaps a bit better ?


Did you apply at the same rates? What were the temps?

Did it provide any residual?



On a Call said:


> Then I started a contract with the city here doing summer spraying work. One day was talking with the foreman about beet treated salt that they had purchased, his claim was " what joke and rip off " we had less affect and a mess on our hands. We will never while I am here use it again. They were using it on parking lots, streets, and sidewalks. Bulk no doubt.


I'd like to have more details from this :terribletowel:.

What kind of mess?

Less effect? What does that mean?

I'm curious how an inanimate object could not work as well.

I'm hesitant to provide my experiences on a public forum. There are a few competitors here that I prefer not to provide all my experiences, research, trial and error with.

You should do more research. Lots of talk about Magic Salt here on PS. The only issue I have with Magic Salt is the cost and the KoolAid most users drink. Because the foreman was an idiot.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

http://www.offthegridnews.com/how-to-2/beet-juice-as-a-deicer/ http://www.deeproot.com/blog/blog-entries/deicing-with-beet-juice
This isn't "voodoo science" it's acceptable and proven.Don't listen to those with their "empirical experience"
(If knowledge is _*empirical*_, it's based on observation rather than theory.),basically we can't trust our limited experience! There are hundreds of these reports from dot studies,universities etc.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Mark as he has since retired from the city this year I am not able to ask some of the questions.

However this is how I remember his comments.

As far as the mess...I think he was referring tracking into the public buildings. However thinking back on it...it was most likely the Sodium Chloride and not the juice. Which makes sense as they were putting down salt.

As for less effective. What I am sure he was trying to say was that it is/was no more effective than with nothing on it. And this was their reason for scraping the use. I have no idea how they were adding it to the salt ? But I think it was added as the application was being made and done at the spinner.

I appreciate your experiences, this is what makes some fly and other burn. Thank you.

As for my experiences I most likely did not follow proper methods and expected a result unjustified of its capability. 

Thank you Leigh, I am going to research more on the topic.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Okay what is best method for adding...

spraying onto the salt while spreading or on the pile and mix in ??


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I buy mine already mixed direct from the port. When the spray it like my first year we dragged out a pile flat sprayed it on mixed then sprayed more and mixed very time consuming to me


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

On a Call said:


> Okay what is best method for adding...
> 
> spraying onto the salt while spreading or on the pile and mix in ??





fireside said:


> I buy mine already mixed direct from the port. When the spray it like my first year we dragged out a pile flat sprayed it on mixed then sprayed more and mixed very time consuming to me


 x2 ^ At 3.00 $ or so for the liquid cocktail x 6 gallons per ton unless your treating huge amounts its not worth it.Treated for us is only 20$ or so more than straight salt. If I had room I would stock both, treated salt isn't always needed. I considered spraying calc at spinner instead of buying the treated but its not worth it for me.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

The question I have for you two is. Are you treating with Beat juice or Calcium ?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Not sure what brand is used at the Gateway Terminal where we get our salt.It's all similar, here's some info to look over if you want to . http://www.obersonsnursery.com/pdf/clearlane_broch.pdf http://meltsnow.com/magic-salt-msds/


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Got it...thanks.
Looks like I am still in the dark on what is in it however I do see the Magnesium chloride and the Triethanolamine not so sure what the later is though ?

It is however not a beat juice product unless it is not listed.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

As of last year they were using iceb gone. 
Do to the recent temps I'm going to get 10 tons of straight salt this week. Seems like a waste of money with the marginal temps we are seeing


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

If you look under IBC MAGIC it is msg / organic product.

One thing I do is mix it with straight salt when the temps are good. Little magic salt and straight salt. Magic gets it going and straight salt takes over.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

The salt I purchase has everything from dust to 1/4 inch size particles. 

Does that dust size matter ??

Also it is treated salt...not sure with what...but it is that blue color.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

That's total normal fines and chips. As for the color is mist likely anti cake additive making the blue color.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

On a Call said:


> The salt I purchase has everything from dust to 1/4 inch size particles.
> 
> Does that dust size matter ??
> 
> Also it is treated salt...not sure with what...but it is that blue color.


It could be Morton Bulk Safe-T-Salt, its treated with prussian blue pigment.Supposed to help you see the application rate and as Fireside mentioned its an anti-caking additive that also helps with freezing. Mortan has a large selection,they use mag or calc in their bulk.Might be what you've got, maybe not.As long as it works!


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

leigh said:


> It could be Morton Bulk Safe-T-Salt, its treated with prussian blue pigment.Supposed to help you see the application rate and as Fireside mentioned its an anti-caking additive that also helps with freezing. Mortan has a large selection,they use mag or calc in their bulk.Might be what you've got, maybe not.As long as it works!


I think it is an anti-caking agent or at least I was told that before. There is a salt mine off interstate 75 south of Detroit you see it off the Rouge River bridge. There are two piles there one blue and one white.

Work it does, but I have heard customers comment. " I do not see any salt crystals laying about or melting pocks ". I explain we did salt and you will see results. Never get call backs, not at least with the warm temperatures we are having this season. Heck, I bet I could by that salt I shared being sold for, what was it ?? $ 25.00 a ton ???

However in years past when we have snow, rain, sleet, and then temps dropping into the teens or lower. That shows the difference in good salting and not. I got into the habit of stocking calcium just for this situation adding it to our bulk.

But as Mark mentioned adding beet juice make it work. So, not knowing does it work in those conditions ?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Not really a test, but an observation.

Leaving my house this morning, the drive to the house was white with a light dusting. Hit the drive to the shop--that is salted--it was bare\wet. Despite the rain yesterday, there was enough residual to melt it oof.

Had another lot with new asphalt that is salted that was a sheet of ice.

Is it _the _answer? Not necessarily, but it makes a difference.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Yeah why is that...asphalt seems to freeze faster than cement ??

We are out salting now. We caught 1 inch of snow that mostly went to wet but there is some slush mixed in now. Temps going to the lower 20's tonight and drop more durring the day. 

So we are salting tonight due to most sites are 24/7 factories and such. But we will need to be out early morning salting what needs it.


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## Pothole (Feb 14, 2017)

That treated salt is a US forestry product mixed with calcium they call it safemelt


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Pothole said:


> That treated salt is a US forestry product mixed with calcium they call it safemelt


Link please.....


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## Pothole (Feb 14, 2017)

Sorry, new to site don't know what you mean. I don't have any literature on it, I'm just the guy pugmilling it.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Pothole said:


> Sorry, new to site don't know what you mean. I don't have any literature on it, I'm just the guy pugmilling it.


Then you should be careful.

Which treated salt? Magic? Clearlane? Beet juice\GeoMelt? IceBan? Caliber? Calcium? Sodium? Magnesium?

Which treated salt are you saying is a forestry product and is mixed with calcium?

I can assure you that my treated salt is not a forestry product and is not treated with calcium.


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## Pothole (Feb 14, 2017)

The picture that started this thread


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Pothole said:


> The picture that started this thread


How do you know this for a fact?


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## Pothole (Feb 14, 2017)

Nothings 100%, but gentlemen posted was from ct. Where I am right now mixing it and sure does look like the same stuff in the pile I'm staring at.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Can you tell me what this was treated with?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Can you tell me what this was treated with?
> 
> View attachment 170723


Bourbon?????


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Pothole said:


> Nothings 100%, but gentlemen posted was from ct. Where I am right now mixing it and sure does look like the same stuff in the pile I'm staring at.


Do you work at Gateway New Haven or New London? The salt in the original pic was gateways salt,not the International salt they contract to handle.I think Fireside said it was treated with icebgone (magic) Its mag chloride and some sort of distillers condensed soluble.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Defcon 5 said:


> Bourbon?????


MMM...

I would like to find your supplier


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## Pothole (Feb 14, 2017)

leigh said:


> Do you work at Gateway New Haven or New London? The salt in the original pic was gateways salt,not the International salt they contract to handle.I think Fireside said it was treated with icebgone (magic) Its mag chloride and some sort of distillers condensed soluble.


Yep, my bad I'm stuck in new London terminal for now


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