# Close on a slip and fall



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Got a call today from a old folks home I plow, They want a copy of my log sheet of plowing and salting. So go over there and drop it off and ask what's going on. They had someone fall ,so I asked where.I'm only responsible for the lot,they do the sidewalks and the residents are responsible for in between the cars. They said the women is giving 2 different places where she fell. Thing is, they called me to salt on that day and the ambulance was are ready there, and they have to call me for salting.


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## cmo18 (Mar 10, 2008)

On call bases for salting has no liability


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

cmo18;1935388 said:


> On call bases for salting has no liability


That's a mighty broad statement to make.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

John_DeereGreen;1935391 said:


> That's a mighty broad statement to make.


Very Broad.............

I bet the old ladys family is already thumbing through the yellow pages looking for a lawyer.......


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

That sucks. Sorry the lady was hurt, but hope it works out in your favor. Doesn't sound like you did anything wrong or that it was your fault, but with today's juries always wanting to find fault and make someone pay, there's no telling how it will turn out until it is over. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes right now. Good luck, wish you the best.


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

I would at least talk to my insurance company before I handed over any log sheet. Did they give you a specific time and place that she fell first? get a copy of an accident report before you hand anything over.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

We truly are brothers, I had to provide log sheets for a the 7th this month. First I heard of anything today, it was a morning that got salted and then a squall dumped about 3 inches between 6:30 and 9 am, the lot is full of cars by 7. Opened up lanes at 11a ...I'm sweating bullets.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

lets hope salting is *PER CALL* or *at the request of the owner* very clearly in your contract because they will burn u to the ground if not.


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## BC Handyman (Dec 15, 2010)

Hope all goes well for you GV, at least you are smart enough to keep a snow log, I bet there are many guys who don't.


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

Good luck Grandview. I really do wish you the best.


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

cmo18;1935388 said:


> On call bases for salting has no liability


We have a separate form customers has to sign releasing us from liability when they want "salting on call"


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Looking back on my phone. They called at 1205 pm I was there at 1215 pm .I was actually going that way that's why I got there that fast. Started salting and the ambulance was leaving.


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## potskie (Feb 9, 2011)

So the fall is what initiated the call for salting?

Sounds like the Maint guy was off his game that morning.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

grandview;1935387 said:


> . They said the women is giving 2 different places where she fell. .


So where did she fall ?

In the shower ?

On the dance floor ?

In her roommates excrement that made it to the floor ?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

It's not the old people who sue, it's the young and middle aged that are looking for the easy money. JMO


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

You are right . Always younger relatives or siblings who " talked them into suing "


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Sent a request to the police for a copy of the police report on this. 

So timeline so far. 

Last plow and salt 1/12
call for salt only 1/15
call for log 1/22
the call for salt was at 1205 pm arrived at 1215pm
call to police for ambulance 1207 pm 
so they called me first before the police.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

grandview;1936146 said:


> so they called me first before the police.


You're obviously more important than any public figure.Thumbs Up

Have you taken any bribes for over $4 million dollars recently ?


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

grandview;1936146 said:


> Sent a request to the police for a copy of the police report on this.
> 
> So timeline so far.
> 
> ...


They're trying to push it on to you. "We did call for salt first" thing is these days everything is recorded to the minute. Best of luck to you.


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## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

All the time i hear people on this forum say that they hate doing residentials and only want commercials as it is less "hassle". 

well this slip and fall liability aspect is one major reason why i would never consider commercials. i'd rather deal with the occasional resi customer who calls me mid storm and says "where are you?" versus something like this happening. Not to say this couldn't happen in residential too, but it is a lot less likely. 

i've also built up a tight resi route where i gross more per hour than i could with commercial, so i have no reason to look into commercial. although this winter with the lack of snow and all the frozen precip, i sometimes i think i should get into salting - then i hear stories like this.....

anyway, best of luck. we live in a sue happy world. personal responsibility has been removed from the equation. it's always someone else's fault.....


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Seasons like will also pay when you have seasonals


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## cmo18 (Mar 10, 2008)

John_DeereGreen;1935391 said:


> That's a mighty broad statement to make.


Very tough case to say gv is responsible for a slip and fall when salting isn't part of his job?

Gv doesn't decide when it's slippery, the owners do. Therefor how does gv carry any liability?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

GV, you need to stop posting on this here and get your lawyer and insurance company all of the information.

If she was hurt in any way, even emotionally, and was transported your lawyer and insurance company need to handle everything.

If the salting was on call, I don't see how you can be responsible for any slip and falls, but that's not up to me or any of us to decide. Cover your ass just in case. Even if you're not at fault, you're going to be dragged into it. Anything you put on here can be used against you if it's found.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

They should move to Florida if winter is too hazardous.


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Sucks.... Sometimes its cheaper to settle than run up the legal fees. Insurance should be able to handle it.. I would drop that contract for bringing me into it knowing salt is "on call"


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

linckeil;1936215 said:


> we live in a sue happy world. Personal responsibility has been removed from the equation. It's always someone else's fault.....


how true a statement this is.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

I did call the insurance to talk to them 'off the record' right now its wait and see. The old lady can't even tell them where she fell. Police record has them picking her up in the lobby,and it was a riide into the hospital as a non emergency for a check up.


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## snopushin ford (Feb 20, 2010)

make sure you document the call log from your phone, like take a screen shot of it with the times of the phone calls.


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## chesterlawn (Nov 9, 2005)

I just don't get it, you walk in snow and fall and blame someone else. I just don't understand how that could ever hold up in court but I know it does, it makes me sick. Once upon a time, in a land not far from here, lawyers were respected.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

chesterlawn;1937468 said:


> I just don't get it, you walk in snow and fall and blame someone else. I just don't understand how that could ever hold up in court but I know it does, it makes me sick. Once upon a time, in a land not far from here, lawyers were respected.


Makes as much sense as suing (and winning) McD's because you spill your hot coffee in your lap while driving.


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## oldmankent (Mar 2, 2001)

Old people are supposed to slip and fall too.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Pretty much everything you do after the fact does not affect the outcome. Documentation and record keeping are your only defence. Dropping a client for a claim pretty much guarantees you won't make that money back from that client....ever! Right now it becomes an insurance issue, it will then matter if you see an increase or cancellation next year at which point you will have to adjust your rates to compensate.
I know the stressful feeling but hopefully this helps you see it for what it is and you can sleep better...


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

No stress here. Its icy rain right now and untreated surfaces are slick. Maybe a few old people there will fall again,this it shows they are not be responsible .


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

grandview;1937677 said:


> No stress here. Its icy rain right now and untreated surfaces are slick. Maybe a few old people there will fall again,this it shows they are not be responsible .


You hate to wish ill will on anybody, but yes, I would definitely be documenting the fact that you are out treating other accounts due to conditions and they haven't called for service. Better yet, why not give them a courtesy "I'm in the area treating other accounts, would you like me to swing through and hit you" call. Then, that way, if they decline and then something happens, BOY WOULDN'T THEY LOOK DUMB/INCOMPETENT?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

derekslawncare;1937705 said:


> You hate to wish ill will on anybody, but yes, I would definitely be documenting the fact that you are out treating other accounts due to conditions and they haven't called for service. Better yet, why not give them a courtesy "I'm in the area treating other accounts, would you like me to swing through and hit you" call. Then, that way, if they decline and then something happens, BOY WOULDN'T THEY LOOK DUMB/INCOMPETENT?


Possible but,Then they would expect you to call every time, Then they could turn around and say I never called them. Let them call me,that's the way I've always worked,


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

grandview;1937769 said:


> Possible but,Then they would expect you to call every time, Then they could turn around and say I never called them. Let them call me,that's the way I've always worked,


You would have a phone record that you called. I save all my phone calls , pics from phones and text messages just for this reason.
Steve


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

grandview;1937769 said:


> Possible but,Then they would expect you to call every time, Then they could turn around and say I never called them. Let them call me,that's the way I've always worked,


Yeah, I completely understand you NOT wanting to get them into that habit of "OH, we'll wait for him to call us and tell us it needs to be done." I was just thinking it would look good on your part if you could call, they declined and then you could show that they are more concerned with saving a buck then the safety of their residents. That was my thinking. Maybe just this time, "in lieu of what recently occurred, I wanted to check and see if you wanted an application" type thing. But no, I understand what you are saying as well.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I'm wondering how many people that have commented on what to do have actually ever had a slip and fall and been sued?


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

JD Dave;1935763 said:


> It's not the old people who sue, it's the young and middle aged that are looking for the easy money. JMO


That's the truth


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

JD Dave;1938193 said:


> I'm wondering how many people that have commented on what to do have actually ever had a slip and fall and been sued?


I had few, I wont comment on what to do. I leave it to my Ins. Agent.
Best one I got hit from the same guy in 3 different lots in the same storm
He trying get a payoff on the spot , never made it to the court 
He was trying scam a lot of people. He had 16 claims. In one storm. He thought someone would just pay him off.
All he got was free room and board for a year.


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

JD Dave;1938193 said:


> I'm wondering how many people that have commented on what to do have actually ever had a slip and fall and been sued?


I'm One of 'em


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

JD Dave;1938193 said:


> I'm wondering how many people that have commented on what to do have actually ever had a slip and fall and been sued?


Where I am my mom just yells at me and tells me to get my "Sh&* together " cause her friend nearly killed herself on one of my lots. She'll also call me during the worst storm of the season to pull her out of the ditch because she had to get her dog to the vet for a check up.. She'll be 80 this year.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Mr.Markus;1938289 said:


> Where I am my mom just yells at me and tells me to get my "Sh&* together " cause her friend nearly killed herself on one of my lots. She'll also call me during the worst storm of the season to pull her out of the ditch because she had to get her dog to the vet for a check up.. She'll be 80 this year.


Id leave her in that ditch for a bit. Plow a sobeys in Oakville and it amazes me the amount of people that come in there during a snowfall. Same when I worked for Home Depot. People coming in to buy stupid stuff that they could wait til the day after to get.



JD Dave;1938193 said:


> I'm wondering how many people that have commented on what to do have actually ever had a slip and fall and been sued?


1% at best. Have my 1st one this season. Seams like BS. Paperwork from there lawyer says they were unconscious had to seek medial treatment and therapy. They cannot do any work around the house etc etc. However it seams they do not want to hand over the medical history from the day. They had just left a the bar on the premises, were not even walking towards there house they were headed opposite direction and in an area that does not even lead to there house.

Paperwork looks all copy and paste where the victims name is and info and other areas. They cant decide if the person is a he or a she. Maybe the S button on the lawyers secretary's keyboard was not working.

Total BS I hope insurance does not pay out. Im guessing I still pay the deductible either way.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

had at least one every year i ran crew, all thrown out because of good record keeping, and timely service!

these are seasonal which makes a big difference


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## 04tundra (Jan 30, 2011)

goodluck with that, hope it all works out.


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## Joe D (Oct 2, 2005)

derekslawncare;1937495 said:


> Makes as much sense as suing (and winning) McD's because you spill your hot coffee in your lap while driving.


The difference in the McDs case was they decided to keep the coffee hotter than allowed by the board of health so it would last longer than it should have. They did it for nothing more than to make more money.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Joe D;1940303 said:


> The difference in the McDs case was they decided to keep the coffee hotter than allowed by the board of health so it would last longer than it should have. They did it for nothing more than to make more money.


Interesting. I never knew that fact. Thanks. Learn something new every day.


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

grandview;1935747 said:


> Looking back on my phone. They called at 1205 pm I was there at 1215 pm .I was actually going that way that's why I got there that fast. Started salting and the ambulance was leaving.


So they called because someone already fell. You have nothing to worry about if your contract with them specifically says salt per customer request only in some way shape or form.


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

derekslawncare;1938121 said:


> Yeah, I completely understand you NOT wanting to get them into that habit of "OH, we'll wait for him to call us and tell us it needs to be done." I was just thinking it would look good on your part if you could call, they declined and then you could show that they are more concerned with saving a buck then the safety of their residents. That was my thinking. Maybe just this time, "in lieu of what recently occurred, I wanted to check and see if you wanted an application" type thing. But no, I understand what you are saying as well.


Not sure about GV, but some of us have hundreds of snow removal customers with 100+ set up on a salting by customer request. There is no practical way of calling 100+ customers every time anything falls from the sky.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

lawnlandscape;1941245 said:


> Not sure about GV, but some of us have hundreds of snow removal customers with 100+ set up on a salting by customer request. There is no practical way of calling 100+ customers every time anything falls from the sky.


I was in NO WAY implying that he, or anyone else on this site, should start calling all his by request accounts and try to sell them on an application that they hadn't yet decided they needed. I was only suggesting that due to the recent accident at that ONE account, that he call them and suggest that they have him come by while he was out treating others and treat theirs as well. THEN document that he had contacted them and what their response was to that offer. This would accomplish three things. 1)It would get them thinking that they need to do it and therefore might get him some extra money. 2)If he did call and they say no thanks, then he could A)use that to his benefit in his current case by demonstrating that they are more concerned with protecting their wallet than their tenants. B)Would ABSOLUTELY relieve him of any fault. 3)It might somewhat re-educate his client on what conditions do and don't warrant calling for service and thus might help him in the future. It was merely a suggestion as to what I might think about doing if I were in his situation. I DEFINITELY REALIZE THAT FOR THE VAST MAJORITY ON THIS SIGHT, HAVING TO CALL AND TRY TO UPSELL WORK TO THEIR CLIENTS EVERY STORM IS NOT PRACTICAL.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Update.Talking to my Schwanns delivery guy who also delivers to that place heard she fell in her apartment,not even outside.


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## First Responder (Aug 16, 2012)

Had similar call from HOA manager. Mind you we plow the parking/throughfares, clear the walks and we apply salt on walk areas only. They are also a "call in" for salt application in parking/throughfare areas. 
So faxed over log sheets for the date in question, which was March 6 2014....yes last year. The next day the hoa's insurance carrier called & asked me a few questions. Then I asked her what exactly happened.....lady at 5am was taking out trash and slipped n fell in the parking lot. Needless to say, after reviewing my snow logs and speaking with me, the claim is going to be denied and insurance claim investigator said my detailed logs were amazing, she also said if everyone kept excellent records it would be easier to expose fraud. I am pretty confident as long as everything is documented, contracts are written correctly, and you do a good job in a timely matter there is no way to be held liable, and if liable.....that's why we all carry gl & workman's comp......


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

cmo18;1935388 said:


> On call bases for salting has no liability


Yeah but only if you have it contracted that way.. ive seen some sidewalk or parking lot ONLY work contracts where you STILL indemnify the parent company from any and all liability, yes that includes the areas you DONT service.... even if you don't accept the liability, you're still dragged into the lawsuit.


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## oarwhat (Nov 29, 2005)

Ok here's one of mine. 2 AM cleaning lady slips and falls on a sidewalk. She does get hurt bad. I plow the lot but not the sidewalks. They SUE ME! Because according to them I plowed in the rear door and she had to take the trash out the front door. The rear door was never plowed in they just never shoveled the snow near the door. They never shoveled it ever.

My lawyer asks the lady "where did you park your car? She says in the front lot. Well then you'd have to walk on the walks anyways right?" The Lady didn't know what to say. She did get just under a million from the store owner and property owner.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Grassman09;1938386 said:


> 1% at best. Have my 1st one this season. Seams like BS. Paperwork from there lawyer says they were unconscious had to seek medial treatment and therapy. They cannot do any work around the house etc etc. However it seams they do not want to hand over the medical history from the day. They had just left a the bar on the premises, were not even walking towards there house they were headed opposite direction and in an area that does not even lead to there house.
> 
> Paperwork looks all copy and paste where the victims name is and info and other areas. They cant decide if the person is a he or a she. Maybe the S button on the lawyers secretary's keyboard was not working.
> 
> Total BS I hope insurance does not pay out. Im guessing I still pay the deductible either way.


WE have them every year. Some years none, other years multiple, last year i'd say was great with how much snow we had, almost daily operations and only three, all of which we couldn't control and NOT one of those three were during a storm, all were 1-3 days after a storm, and after on days we salted am and pm too.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

oarwhat;1956584 said:


> Ok here's one of mine. 2 AM cleaning lady slips and falls on a sidewalk. She does get hurt bad. I plow the lot but not the sidewalks. They SUE ME! Because according to them I plowed in the rear door and she had to take the trash out the front door. The rear door was never plowed in they just never shoveled the snow near the door. They never shoveled it ever.
> 
> My lawyer asks the lady "where did you park your car? She says in the front lot. Well then you'd have to walk on the walks anyways right?" The Lady didn't know what to say. She did get just under a million from the store owner and property owner.


Its really sad that slip and falls are no fault of anyone other than the idiot that actually fell. Heck i see people take a fall sometimes numerous times during each storm. None are our fault, usually its just them rushing, pure stupidity and sometimes just not paying much attention. Heck i've fallen at times before. The people who get hurt bad are usually old or really out of shape "IE FAT", the slip didn't hurt them, their body fat and weight hurt them. No reason to blame the fall on anyone but yourself, except in most states, like NJ, lots of tort claim lawyers "ambulance chasers" are lining up to file these claims to get 20-30% of $10,000 - a million dollar hit each case.


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## oarwhat (Nov 29, 2005)

Ramairfreak98ss;1956698 said:


> Its really sad that slip and falls are no fault of anyone other than the idiot that actually fell. Heck i see people take a fall sometimes numerous times during each storm. None are our fault, usually its just them rushing, pure stupidity and sometimes just not paying much attention. Heck i've fallen at times before. The people who get hurt bad are usually old or really out of shape "IE FAT", the slip didn't hurt them, their body fat and weight hurt them. No reason to blame the fall on anyone but yourself, except in most states, like NJ, lots of tort claim lawyers "ambulance chasers" are lining up to file these claims to get 20-30% of $10,000 - a million dollar hit each case.


I agree in my instance how could the store or property owner be responsible? This lady fell in the middle of the night not when the store was open. It's crazy!


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## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

Ramairfreak98ss;1956698 said:


> Its really sad that slip and falls are no fault of anyone other than the idiot that actually fell. Heck i see people take a fall sometimes numerous times during each storm. None are our fault, usually its just them rushing, pure stupidity and sometimes just not paying much attention. Heck i've fallen at times before. The people who get hurt bad are usually old or really out of shape "IE FAT", the slip didn't hurt them, their body fat and weight hurt them. No reason to blame the fall on anyone but yourself, except in most states, like NJ, lots of tort claim lawyers "ambulance chasers" are lining up to file these claims to get 20-30% of $10,000 - a million dollar hit each case.


Hey, what is wrong with old fat people?


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## navyman (Dec 1, 2013)

Joe D;1940303 said:


> The difference in the McDs case was they decided to keep the coffee hotter than allowed by the board of health so it would last longer than it should have. They did it for nothing more than to make more money.


I watched the special documentary about this poor old woman. The family only sued for compensation above and beyond of med. expenses after McD's refused to assist them with anything and made this old woman out to be a sue happy greedy old woman...she was not. They got what they deserved.


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## oarwhat (Nov 29, 2005)

She also was burned BAD. Not some minor injury


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