# what to charge



## bowhunter1977 (Jan 23, 2011)

Hey guys , Small dilema here It appears I have a good chance of picking up a chain of mcdonalds stores . I have never priced a deal of this nature does anyone have any advice ,hourly , flat rate if so which hourly or flat and going rate


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

McDonalds should be the ones telling you how they want the bid. Once that's clear figure out your costs and bid accordingly.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

discuss with them how they want it to be bid. Do they want them all on seasonal agreements, time and materials for each site, or lot pricing? The hourly rate will depend on your area, and the flat rate will depend on your area and the size of the lot. 

Aroudn me most mcdonalds are like .5 acres or so. On a 1-3.9" snow fall that means probably about 30-45 minutes of plowing, so I usually will bid it at like 1.25 hours of plowing. That allows for me to come back at a later hour to do more clean up work and you can figure on it taking slightly longer since it will most likely be busy. With the rate around me thats going to come to about $80/push for something that size. Maybe by you it could be $125/push for a lot that size. 

Personally I prefer to use lot pricing. You have the ability to make more than if you were just doing straight hourly. Yes you can lose on it, but if you hire and dispatch the proper employees and tools, they will cut your times down


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## pats plowing (Nov 27, 2001)

A few were going for $60 a push around here for every 2", Needless to say I passed on these.


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## Dr Who (Dec 16, 2010)

I'd price them per drive if you have the choice.but around here we do not get enough snow to give prices per inch or per inch range. Most we ever get at a time is 2-3" maybe ever so often you get 4"....

Depends on the rates in your area, if there about .5 acers each, I would bid them some were between 60-100.00 bucks each. Of course the price would depend on how many you are doing, I like to give a slightly lower price for the more property's I do for the same people. Make up in volume and they seem to not freak out as bad when you say XX each rather then XX for all of them....

But again, we do not get a lot of snow, so at 60-100 each, I would not get the contract as there are landscape companies around here that do them for 25-35.00 each.
But I am not working for nothing, I'd rather sit here and aggravate you all....


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## ljbev (Dec 17, 2001)

I wouldnt plow my mothers driveway for $60


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## Dr Who (Dec 16, 2010)

ljbev;1219428 said:


> I wouldnt plow my mothers driveway for $60


Like I said, there are large landscaping companies here charging 25-35 or so for commercial lots, some are .5 acers.

I do resy drives for 25.00, but the landscape companies do them for 10-15, just to get the seasonal contracts for mowing, mulching etc.

we get hardly any snow relative to you all up north, rates are way to low here for the professionals, then you take the low ball people doing resy for 5.00 and commercial for 15-20 bucks.

No money to be made here in snow, unless your equipment is paid for and you are a one man show. then you may can put some money in your pocket, other then that, you will go broke quick. We do not get snow until about mid-end of Dec and the snow is done around the middle of Feb. What so we have is 2" here and there, always melting off between storms. We get an average of 12-20" per year on a bad weather year, good weather year is 10-12".

People just don't pay for the snow, they wait for it to melt off as it usually does in a day to two. Business close, people just do not go to work/out.

Only people making money in snow are the people that have the landscaping/mowing contracts, low ball the snow and make it up in the summer whit 200+ properties.

60.00 to plow your mothers, no you would not plow it for that, cause she could get one of the big name companies here in town do plow it for her for 10-15 bucks...


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## ljbev (Dec 17, 2001)

I would do it for free


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

*I disagree*



Dr Who;1220549 said:


> Like I said, there are large landscaping companies here charging 25-35 or so for commercial lots, some are .5 acers.
> 
> I do resy drives for 25.00, but the landscape companies do them for 10-15, just to get the seasonal contracts for mowing, mulching etc.
> 
> ...


I am in your same market and disagree with the above statement, There is plenty of money to be made in snow and ice management in our market and it's not done at $60 per lot and even a greater discount for multiple properties. Your service is worth at least $100 - $150 AN HOUR. However you will probably not get it out of McDonalds. We did many of the Arbys, Taco Bells and Burger Kings in Louisville many years ago and fast food does not want to pay. You need to look at a different clientele and you will quickly find out there is plenty of money to be made in Louisville and Lexington. You will make your money out of the back of the truck and not with your plow.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but readjust your thinking and market niche and you will do much better.


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## LVHardscape (Jan 29, 2011)

I do two mc donalds here in pa, Hourly is how we bid out. basically Time and Materials. The only pain in the a$$ is the employees come in at 4 to open by five, so there's always cars rolling in at some point. but other than that they are always willing to pay extra to have the CYA factor. The owner of the two that I do would rather see a bill for 10 tons of salt than a call from his employees saying the parkinglot could use a little ice. 

We also have to expose curb every snow storm. So we run a blower along every single curb when we're done plowing. Looks great when its done, time consuming yes, but thats the hourly advantage. 

We also do the corp. offices too. Fun times! haha


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## LVHardscape (Jan 29, 2011)

Basically each one is coming out to be like 350-450 in plowing dollars, plus salt, chemical,


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

LVHardscape;1226044 said:


> Basically each one is coming out to be like 350-450 in plowing dollars, plus salt, chemical,


$350-450 per time?


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## LVHardscape (Jan 29, 2011)

Here's the easier of the two. mostly straight pushes, very little curb. 









Here's the tough one, tons of curb, curb around the drive thru, angled parking with curb stops, raised sidewalk in the parking area,










Any questions lemme know.


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## LVHardscape (Jan 29, 2011)

Camden;1226051 said:


> $350-450 per time?


Yes sir. That is correct. And at the number of snowfalls we've been having in PA, its great.


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## SSS Inc. (Oct 18, 2010)

Do it for unlimited double cheeseburgers. Not the Mcdouble, but the real deal.


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

I hear ya. That's the way it should be done and the margins made. Great job and keep on plowing and deicing.


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## PerfectEarth (Feb 18, 2010)

Wayne Volz;1225979 said:


> I am in your same market and disagree with the above statement, There is plenty of money to be made in snow and ice management in our market and it's not done at $60 per lot and even a greater discount for multiple properties. Your service is worth at least $100 - $150 AN HOUR. However you will probably not get it out of McDonalds. We did many of the Arbys, Taco Bells and Burger Kings in Louisville many years ago and fast food does not want to pay. You need to look at a different clientele and you will quickly find out there is plenty of money to be made in Louisville and Lexington. You will make your money out of the back of the truck and not with your plow.
> 
> Please don't take this the wrong way, but readjust your thinking and market niche and you will do much better.


Amen.... salt is money. Love reading your input, Wayne. I'd love to meet up with you and pick your brain!


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## LVHardscape (Jan 29, 2011)

I think it all depends on the "enterprise" that owns the particular franchises when it comes to paying. For example, my invoices wouldn't go to McDonalds corp, they'de go to X Enterprise CC. john doe. 

It comes down to, if you want top priority and a guarantee of clear, melted lots by open, then you pay for it. Quality costs money. I wouldn't drop blade for 60-100 bucks a lot, i'de stay sleeping. At that point you can't really recover any of the company assets, let alone the unknown variable of breakdown. I mean hell, if you break a shovel 25% of your proffits are shot!!, then subtract fuel and salt and a helper or two.............might as well just pay them some money while your at it!

Every man hour on a job has the following things tacked onto the price per hour of every guy. 

Wage + Employer tax match + Unemployment + workmans comp + Insurance + (company overhead /divided by total yearly hours worked by all employees) = actual cost of your employee. 

It also comes down to demographics, and where the money is at.


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

*Feel free to stop by any time*



PerfectEarth;1226250 said:


> Amen.... salt is money. Love reading your input, Wayne. I'd love to meet up with you and pick your brain!


Feel free to stop by some time. We are on Old Bardstown Road in Buechel. Look forward to meeting you.

Thanks for your positive comments.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

That first looks pretty easy. Is it a 24 hr mcdonalds or just one that is open until like 10 or 11?

The first 1 is probably just over an acre so probably 1-1.5 hours worth of plowing depending on snow amount/type, plow type, truck, etc. If thats a 24 hr mcdonalds, you can bet your a$$ on a lot of salt, and then coming back again to clean up just because theres going to be a good amount of snow packed down. Id figure on at least 900lbs of salt for that place, and then just to be safe probably 2 hours of plowing for a 1-3.9 inch storm. So probably $150 for the push $160 for salting. 

That second 1 i would ask if you can place snow in that yellow hashed area by the drive thru. That would be really nice since you could put probably 3/4 of that front parking area in that area. Might need to bring in a loader everyonce in a while to stack it up but, that would make your job probably 30 minutes less since you dont have to keep going up and over a curb. It totals like 30k probably, so it shouldnt take you any longer than 1 hour with a 1-3.9 inch snow. Ya the curbs there suck but I would probably put the snow in that parking area in the bottom left in that hatched area and the stalls on either side of it, thers an area for snow by the dumpster, if you can put some in that large hatched area, then theres just a few areas where you need to go up and over the curb so thats not bad. That id probably bill at like 1.5 hours and then probably like 600lbs of salt at least. So somethng a long the lines of 110/push and then like 105 for the salt or something like that.

But it also depends on what your using. If you could get a skid loader in there, that would be nice, but a plow truck will do. 350$ for each site or $350 for the 2? I know some people are getting like 125/hr for their trucks but still thats like 2.75 hours of work at each 1. Thats way to high and that doesnt even include salt. Maybe 350 for each site for plowing, sidewalks, ice melt and salt. Walks arent included in my bid since I cant really see them


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## LVHardscape (Jan 29, 2011)

Bristol- Those are two that i already do. haha. The OP didn't post pics of his. 

The only place the snow can go on the second one is all the way down in the corner. dumpster clearence, drains, etc.....


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

I didnt even see that. Its been such a long week from this damn blizzard i was pretty tired when I saw it and didnt even think. Since tuesday morning at 3am i have something like 65 or 75 hours in, and now 1in of forcasted snow has turned into 4-6 for today. Damn lake effect


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