# The snow in the hard to plow spots and in the inlets of garage door ?



## RonWin (Nov 17, 2011)

When your plowing a driveway and your trying to get as close aspossible to where the driveway meets up against the garage door inlets do you guys get out and shovel the snow that rides off your blade towards the garage? I know you can back drag it in some cases but when your working with limited room do you leave it or get outa the truck to shovel it off? Also im thinking about getting sander/salter for the back bed of my truck was wondering what those things go for? I want it to be level with the height of the rails of the bed so i can see out of the back of the truck for when im backing up and i dont want it jutting out much from the tailgate bcuz my truck is already long enough. How much are these things and can i get them at a lvl height of my boxbed rails? The Fisher polycaster juts past the rails and the tailgate sander adds too much length for the resi drveways i plow.

Secondly, do you guys who have resi contracts offer clearing of the sidewalks? If you have a poly caster in the back bed how do you have room for a snow blower? Or do you just figure you have to shovel the side walk even if its 50'+ long and 3n1/2'-4' wide? Hw does that work?

In essence, do you guys worry about getting ALL of the snow off the driveway completely? Not having any snow anywhere? What is the conception that the owners have for plowman? I try to get off every area of snow possible, even if i have to get out and shovel small spots that no truck could fit in but realisticly it takes me anywhere from 5-10 mins extra PER TIME :/


LASTLY*- haha sry i have a lot of Q's; How do you guys deal with people asking you if you are going to be there before they have to get out and leave at 6AM? I would love to say that i will hit their house first so that they are able to get out first but when you have SEVERAL people asking you if you are going to be able to get to the before they have to get out AND the route you have is spread out it seems impossible. Is it just a "prioritizing" thing? I would also think that the timing of the storm makes a huge difference too along with how much snow your going to get. How can people ask you to commit that you will be there to clear their driveway every time before they have to get out and leave? Seems impossible? How do you guys react to this request? I'm just starting out so i dont have a lot of contracts but you guys who have a lot must really have to think on how you answer to this request.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Well I plow with slippers on,so I never get out .You can get a tail gate or hitch spreader,but you need to remember its back there.

Never offered sidewalk shoveling.


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## RonWin (Nov 17, 2011)

grandview;1487908 said:


> Well I plow with slippers on,so I never get out .You can get a tail gate or hitch spreader,but you need to remember its back there.
> 
> Never offered sidewalk shoveling.


I would love to have as much experience in plowing snow as you guys who have been around a while doing it. I can't lie, last season was my first year and i did not get a whole lot of experience due to mother natures mild season. I Live in the northeast, more specifically saratoga springs, ny is where i plow. Most people that i plow i have problem spots with some spots being lack of experience causing me to have to get out and shovel snow off. Should i be really worried about getting that line of snow that is left between the closest cut you make near the driveway doors or forget about it? This type of situation im speaking of specifically is when if you are facing the driveway from the road the garage door is on one side of the driveway and not straight back. You tend to leave a strip of snow no matter how close you get as it rides off the blade when u get a lot of snow on it and creates that line of snow near the garage. Now if you don't have enough room to get your truck flush with it to back drag do you get out and shovel it off?

I've been trying to tell people that the plowing contract that they request does not include shoveling the side walks and the they tend to look sideways at me and some a little worried like im trying to cheat them. Idk why they think that shoveling of the side walk would be included for a plowman but i guess thats just what they want added in. How much would you be adding to get out and shovel? I mean some of these sidewalks like i said are enormous and can get up to 75' long and 4' wide. Thats a ton of snow to have to shovel and thats only one account!

BTW im sporting a 09 f250 reg cab, 8' box with 24k miles. A brand new 8' fisher hd straight blade.


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## Wilnip (Oct 4, 2011)

I offer shoveling for a few of my your round customers. If you offer shoveling you have to realize that while your shoveling for 20 minutes your truck is sitting there making no money and probably burning fuel because it's idling. So while you're making 5 dollars for shoveling the sidewalk you lost 40 dollars in billable plowing. So if they want shoveled make it worth your while and always insist on calcium on the sidewalks to save your self from a slip and fall.

I only shovel in front of the garage doors for the customers I do walks for. 

I would reconsider buying a spreader unless you have commercial accounts that require it.


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## truckitup (Aug 21, 2011)

That was to funny GV LOL


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Pull into the driveway and backdrag close to the door,you may have to do 2 half angled backdrags by the door to pull it out.

Like this?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

truckitup;1487932 said:


> That was to funny GV LOL


He's just telling it like it is


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## born2farm (Dec 24, 2007)

I shovel the garage doors out at all of my residential accounts. I also do sidewalks at most of my accounts. It may mean my trucks are sitting there idling but it also is what it takes to keep customers around here.


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Just get as close to the garage as you can without hitting it. If you leave a foot or so no big deal. Most people understand you can't get everything. If they want the walks shoveled them charge more for the extra time your there. As far as a time to have them plowed out, I always say "we aim for 7 am but the snow doesn't know your schedule".


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

I always shoveled that spot. It's cheaper to spend an extra minute shoveling it than it is to fix the garage door you hit.


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## blazer2plower (Nov 19, 2011)

I only shovel my bigger accounts. Resi don't get it. I do offer it. It costs extra. And for salt I have a push spreader. As for wanting it done by 7am it's not up to me it's when the snow stops.


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## mikeplowman (Jul 20, 2011)

"a clean plate is a happy plate" 
keep the customers happy and they will make you happy ($$$)


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

mikeplowman;1489250 said:


> "a clean plate is a happy plate"
> keep the customers happy and they will make you happy ($$$)


But if you give them it all at once,then you can't be a miracle worker the next time!wesport


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## GSS LLC (Jul 7, 2012)

Just tell them they can't expect perfection. And if they want that spot cleared then there should do it themselves 
I actually have heard that.


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## AugustArborists (Apr 6, 2010)

Some of you guys have it easy! The businesses and resi's I have want lots and sidewalks done. The only thing I leave is the packed down tracks in the driveway from people coming home during the storm. They also expect the walkway from the driveway to the house and mailbox (most houses here have the mailbox next to the front door) . Another fun thing is the storms here generally don't end 'till after 4:00, so most resi's don't get done by 7:00, but they all stay with me, they know I'll get to them as soon as I can.


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## BOSS LAWN (Nov 6, 2011)

born2farm;1487975 said:


> I shovel the garage doors out at all of my residential accounts. I also do sidewalks at most of my accounts. It may mean my trucks are sitting there idling but it also is what it takes to keep customers around here.


If our comm. or resi arnt shoveled they always call. I just shovel them and cross it off the list so I can feel better.


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

RonWin We dont do many resi's or condo's to me they are the most PITA lots but its still the same on large props. If you ever get the call for damage to the property and you will, that snow line can make all the proof you need. Example the owner calls and says you hit the garage door or damaged the landscape ect. the snow line can show where you were. Plowing edge to edge and clearing edge to edge are two types of service. People think a snow plow is a vacum cleaner and ice breaker they have limits.


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## woodchuck2 (Dec 4, 2010)

The only time i shovel is for the elderly. The door issue is why i built my own back blade. I was not sure how well they worked so i built one from a junkyard blade and man was it worth it. Being able to clean out in front of the door makes for a happy customer. In fact one old guy watched me one day when i 1st used the back blade and it did not take him long to open the door and let me back right in the garage so i could pull all the snow away. His daughter fired me for increasing the price last yr and after one storm she called me back, asked if i was the guy with the back plow and apologized. Apparently her dad was impressed with my work and soon realized the extra $3 increase was well worth it as no one else around here uses a back blade. But, you must learn your truck, learn to judge distance in your SIDE mirrors. With the sander or blade on the back you must remember how far it sticks out and judge with that.


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## BOSS LAWN (Nov 6, 2011)

I'd say more be the truck or machine. Get comfortable with it.

I never get closer than 3 inches from the garage.


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## TPCLandscaping (Jan 19, 2012)

I shovel in front of door ways and walks but I price accordingly. I don't feel like your providing a true snow removal service if your not taking care of the area in front of the doors. If you dont want to get out and shovel your lazy and should just find a desk job


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

Welcome to 15 months ago.


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## mud (Dec 15, 2005)

TPCLandscaping;1698743 said:


> I shovel in front of door ways and walks but I price accordingly. I don't feel like your providing a true snow removal service if your not taking care of the area in front of the doors. If you dont want to get out and shovel your lazy and should just find a desk job


Or smart.

It takes me less than five minutes to plow the average drive that I do on a 2 inch snow. I get 30 bucks. 45 If I shovel. You know something. It takes at least as much time to shovel as it dose to plow and often more. Do the math. I no longer accept new work that requires shoveling. I make more if I don't get out of the truck.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

I only shovel in front of the garage doors if I'm doing the sidewalks too. And I don't do many!


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

I personally mostly do residential driveways so no salt/sander in my pickup. just 2 single stage snow blowers a few shovels and gas. 

I try to plow as much of the driveway as possible left to right but the main focus is enough for the client to drive on it without much snow and enough they could walk around the vehicle without stepping in snow if they parked in the driveway. I try and get as much of the snow off as I can to clean pavement. 

if I have to back drag a short driveway I back drag on the right then the left then I push the little bit the back dragging left forward in front of the garage and either move it with a shovel or snow blower. 

included in my price is the sidewalk to there front door and steps and the sidewalk in front of the house if there is one. all sidewalks are done with the snow blower no matter how short or long 2 inches or 50 inches.


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## MetzEnterprizez (Dec 31, 2012)

I see it as a customer courtesy to shovel in front of the garage door, which is included in my price. I also do sidewalks, but my contracts states that they are taken care of after the storm, which I charge for. 
If it snows more than 2 inches before 3am, I offer a break out plow, which does not include shoveling of any sort. As soon as I am done with break outs, I stop at home, send the wife to work, get the kids on the bus, and off to get the rest of my clients done for first round. My commercial account (a small bar) has a 1 inch trigger, and is included in the break out plows, but they get full service. This keeps them all very happy, and I have no second thoughts about if they are happy or not. 
The only one that sucks is my apartment complex that has 8 garage doors between 2 building. But its an extra 5-10 minutes that is very worth it and doesn't hurt my income much.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

break out plow. I like that term. I do this but only on larger snows of more than 4 inches. I'll come at the half way point and do just the driveway. then on a second visit I hit the driveway and sidewalks. 

if it's 4 inches or less everything is done on the first visit. doesn't take that long.


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## MetzEnterprizez (Dec 31, 2012)

Yea, the clients like that term too. It makes sense to them and its easy to understand. I tell them if I don't have 2 inches + by 3am I wont be there. I do everything in 4 inch increments and if we are only calling for 5 inches, Ill be there when its done. I do all my walks and blower accounts (walk behind 2 stage) the morning after the storm.


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## FIREMAN Q (Jan 19, 2005)

we shovel all of our garage doors out. Shovel if they want to pay for it. When we first started out we kept a large tuper ware tote in the back of the truck with salt. No need for a big sander until you hit commercials. Sander will just make you longer with more room for error and less room for maneuvering. As far as getting every inch of the driveway, we recommend our customers put out plow markers and we try to get as close as possible. As long as the drive is passable

we also plow out the mailboxes at the street when the snow really starts to pile up


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## MetzEnterprizez (Dec 31, 2012)

I do the mailboxes too. Usually that's something I do on my way out.


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## TPCLandscaping (Jan 19, 2012)

mud;1698931 said:


> Or smart.
> 
> It takes me less than five minutes to plow the average drive that I do on a 2 inch snow. I get 30 bucks. 45 If I shovel. You know something. It takes at least as much time to shovel as it dose to plow and often more. Do the math. I no longer accept new work that requires shoveling. I make more if I don't get out of the truck.


and the guy that doesn't shovel around here only gets $20 per drive…i start at $40… most are $60..if you keep things cleaned up properly and have the 3" clause in your contract….shoveling only takes a few extra minutes.


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## erkoehler (Sep 25, 2008)

2" trigger on the few residential accounts we do. We only take them on with plowing and shoveling. I have a shoveler in the truck for commercial sites so I need him to be earning his keep!


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

This is why I have a guy doing my walks. 85% of my clients want them done, and they pay for it. By the time im done plowing the helper has usually finished the walk and stairs and we are off.


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## jmac5058 (Sep 28, 2009)

To help an old lady or some nice guy that had a stroke they get shoveled but some home with three teenage boys stay in the truck . Just tell them you offer plowing services not shoveling out paths to the trash barrels and your bird feeders. EVERY time you get out of the truck you take money out of your pocket , dont be a fool.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

around here a snow removal business that doesn't do the sidewalks and steps isn't gonna make it very long in the residential market. 

sidewalks and steps are the norm and expected/assumed to be included in the price/service. people actually care more about getting the sidewalks and steps than the actually driveway. they can just drive over the snow in the driveway.

we don't normally get more than 4" a storm. usually less. 

I can't imagine staying in the truck the whole time. I probably wouldn't do snow removal if all I did was stay in the truck. gotta get out and shovel or run the snow blower to stretch the legs a bit. not to mention in my neck of the woods with residential anyway your losing money by only staying in the truck. 

$40-$60 to just plow the driveway? forget it. I'm in the business and there's no way even I would pay someone that much to just plow the driveway.


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## Boyerlandscape (Dec 14, 2013)

yardguy28;1700278 said:


> around here a snow removal business that doesn't do the sidewalks and steps isn't gonna make it very long in the residential market.
> 
> sidewalks and steps are the norm and expected/assumed to be included in the price/service. people actually care more about getting the sidewalks and steps than the actually
> 
> ...


WAIT!? You guys get out of the truck!? In all seriousness, my contract says I plow all I can without risking damage to persons or property. If they want it shoved, it's extra. If they are yuppies rolling in a Beamer they will pay t have us clear it ( my high school aged shovelers /minions). And if they are a good ol' boy with a truck they just bomb through it.

This is a business, I'm American and I wil bust my tail, but never for free. For god sakes I charge y girlfriend to plow her drive. I give her a deal but still, your running a 6k truck, 1k $ plow and e (Mexican backhoe). Charge charge charge


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

You charge your gf...?


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Boyerlandscape;1700614 said:


> WAIT!? You guys get out of the truck!? In all seriousness, my contract says I plow all I can without risking damage to persons or property. If they want it shoved, it's extra. If they are yuppies rolling in a Beamer they will pay t have us clear it ( my high school aged shovelers /minions). And if they are a good ol' boy with a truck they just bomb through it.
> 
> This is a business, I'm American and I wil bust my tail, but never for free. For god sakes I charge y girlfriend to plow her drive. I give her a deal but still, your running a 6k truck, 1k $ plow and e (Mexican backhoe). Charge charge charge





Mr.Markus;1700663 said:


> You charge your gf...?


the price covers all work. what I'm saying is you can't get hired to stay in the truck and just plow the driveway. most people want more. when someone calls you looking for an estimate on snow removal they expect that price includes the driveway, all sidewalks they have and steps. good luck finding someone who just wants the driveway done.

I charge my parents full price to do there snow removal.


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## Boyerlandscape (Dec 14, 2013)

yardguy28;1700726 said:


> the price covers all work. what I'm saying is you can't get hired to stay in the truck and just plow the driveway. most people want more. when someone calls you looking for an estimate on snow removal they expect that price includes the driveway, all sidewalks they have and steps. good luck finding someone who just wants the driveway done.
> 
> I charge my parents full price to do there snow removal.


Good luck? I do pretty good for myself.like I said, I don't get out. Only a few have requested to hav it all shoveled. In that case I got a high school kid to do it. I shoveled for years for a company back in the day. I've worked my way up over the years to where I am now on my own. There's or hung wrong with shoveling but for god sakes just charge for it. I offer my service as snow plowing, not removal. Maybe that is where you guys are getting sucked in to it?


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

Boyerlandscape;1700960 said:


> Good luck? I do pretty good for myself.like I said, I don't get out. Only a few have requested to hav it all shoveled. In that case I got a high school kid to do it. I shoveled for years for a company back in the day. I've worked my way up over the years to where I am now on my own. There's or hung wrong with shoveling but for god sakes just charge for it. I offer my service as snow plowing, not removal. Maybe that is where you guys are getting sucked in to it?


No one said they don't charge accordingly for doing sidewalks.

Chill the **** out.


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## Boyerlandscape (Dec 14, 2013)

yardguy28;1700278 said:


> $40-$60 to just plow the driveway? forget it. I'm in the business and there's no way even I would pay someone that much to just plow the driveway.


Triton2286, does that look like a price to get out and shovel. That's plow charge, shoveling should have a bigger price tag then that there sport..


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Boyerlandscape;1700960 said:


> Good luck? I do pretty good for myself.like I said, I don't get out. Only a few have requested to hav it all shoveled. In that case I got a high school kid to do it. I shoveled for years for a company back in the day. I've worked my way up over the years to where I am now on my own. There's or hung wrong with shoveling but *for god sakes just charge for it. I offer my service as snow plowing, not removal. Maybe that is where you guys are getting sucked in to it?*


I don't look at it as getting sucked into anything. I offer my service as snow removal because that's what I want to do and quite frankly that's what most in my location do.

as I said in an earlier post. if all your trying to do is driveways good luck getting hired around here. I have yet to see a residential snow service just do the driveways. I've been doing snow removal for 8 years now.

I'm not gonna charge it out as a separate charge. no need to. you get an estimate from me or most anyone else that price has the sidewalks and steps built into it.

there's another thread that's going around talking price and it has a few good posts in it about the fact that EVERYONES market is different.



Triton2286;1701149 said:


> No one said they don't charge accordingly for doing sidewalks.
> 
> Chill the **** out.


triton hit the nail on the head about charging accordingly for it. I never said or implied I shovel the steps and snow blow the sidewalks for free.

what I said was "my price includes the sidewalks and steps". that price figures the cost of doing the whole job into it. not, it's not x amount for the driveway and the sidewalks and steps are done for free.

if I ever would get asked to do just the driveway and actually agree to it my prices would be less.


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## mud (Dec 15, 2005)

TPCLandscaping;1699809 said:


> and the guy that doesn't shovel around here only gets $20 per drive…i start at $40… most are $60..if you keep things cleaned up properly and have the 3" clause in your contract….shoveling only takes a few extra minutes.


I have a two inch trigger. That being said my residential accounts know they are the number 2 priority. Even on the smallest storm I have been out for 6 plus hours before I get to the residential accounts. My focus is commercial plowing and while I plow a few residential places I do not solicit work for them. I will pick up a driveway here and there for customers that give me year round work or have commercial property that I plow but they have to ask. I dont want to be in the truck for 15 hours on a 2 inch storm. When we get larger storms the nights/days get long enough as it is.

In the end I can still bring in far more revenue if I stay in the truck.


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## STIHL GUY (Sep 22, 2009)

I have a worker help me so while I'm plowing he is out snowblowing the sidewalks, walkways to the house, and cleaning up in front of the garage.


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## TPCLandscaping (Jan 19, 2012)

STIHL GUY;1704853 said:


> I have a worker help me so while I'm plowing he is out snowblowing the sidewalks, walkways to the house, and cleaning up in front of the garage.


me too… more productive to have him shoveling some snow than sitting next to me watching me control the plow


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## Hobo2 (Feb 18, 2011)

RonWin;1487907 said:


> When your plowing a driveway and your trying to get as close aspossible to where the driveway meets up against the garage door inlets do you guys get out and shovel the snow that rides off your blade towards the garage? I know you can back drag it in some cases but when your working with limited room do you leave it or get outa the truck to shovel it off? Also im thinking about getting sander/salter for the back bed of my truck was wondering what those things go for? I want it to be level with the height of the rails of the bed so i can see out of the back of the truck for when im backing up and i dont want it jutting out much from the tailgate bcuz my truck is already long enough. How much are these things and can i get them at a lvl height of my boxbed rails? The Fisher polycaster juts past the rails and the tailgate sander adds too much length for the resi drveways i plow.
> 
> Secondly, do you guys who have resi contracts offer clearing of the sidewalks? If you have a poly caster in the back bed how do you have room for a snow blower? Or do you just figure you have to shovel the side walk even if its 50'+ long and 3n1/2'-4' wide? Hw does that work?
> 
> ...


I charge by the hour ($60), I don't have to shovel everyone but I am upfront with those I do. Point out the spots your plow will not get and tell them it will cost them extra if you have to move it by hand. I look at it this way, if it takes me an extra hour to hand shovel and/or salt, so be it. I figure I make even more without running the truck. I also take my ATV which has a plow to one customer who has very long sidewalks, this is so much nicer that hand shoveling, even though I could stand the exercise. 

As far as timing goes, I'm upfront on this too. The storm timing dictates when I come and how often, so I tell them this right up front. Some storms mean I have to plow everyone twice, I just charge half price if I have to come back twice in 24 hours. I also add that if its at all possible, I say I will try very hard to be there before they leave in the morning and/or come home at night, and I do try hard. This usually means sleepless nights. But again, this depends on the timing of the storm, just use your best judgment.

In sort I've discovered that 99% of people are reasonable, and understand you can only do what you can do. Most don't want to pay me $60 per hour to shovel if they have a lot of shoveling to do, so that issue kinda takes care of itself. For the 1% who don't understand, its actually cost affective to just drop them. I figured out quickly that people like this are rarely satisfied and end up costing more than they are worth. Besides, most I have dropped (remember to do it kindly) come back once they figure that I'm only doing my best.


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