# Off Brand - Imported Tractors



## MIDTOWNPC

Ok I have started seeing alot of ads come up for these types of tractors. Not really off brands I guess you could see but not your every day run of the mill brands like newholland, kubota and deere.

I have seen used and new

Valtra Valmet? 
Foton 
Jinma
Branson
Kiote

What is the deal with all these. I mean this tractor in the picture is new and is for sale for $36 000 canadian. Its a perkins engine... isnt that the same thats in bobcats?

Im looking at this and thinking ok can this tractor make me money pushing snow only. 
If all it does is push snow do these numbers work? YES they do. Whats the downside

Breakdowns, Parts, Warranty anyone have one.


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## BigLou80

mahindra is another one available down here. 

Do other things made in China that cost a lot less perform equally as well?? John Deere still has parts available from machines they made 50 years ago. I can assure you that if your "job shop" tractor lasts that long parts will not be available. I would be afraid of parts availability period with a job shop imported tractor, and your probably going to need a lot of parts

Imports from 3rd world countries are going to be the end of both of our countries economy. I will spare you from my complete thoughts on low priced imports.


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## lamarbur

Valta has been around many years in Europe
Foton China
Jinma China
Branson, rebranded TYM from Korea
Kioti made in Korea.


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## JD Dave

Most of the Chinese tractors have a good motor but that's about it. Plus dealer support and parts availability are also important. When the clutch goes out of the tractor and it take 8 weeks to get parts the money you saved might not seem like so much. If you just wanted a tractor for around your small acerage it would be fine but I wouldn't want to depend on them. Kubota use to be a off brand and it has proved itself now but it wasn't from China.


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## Pristine PM ltd

Are the South Koreans not doing better with support these days? I have heard good things about those two. Only from none heavy use guys though.


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## Triple L

This winter we used a John Deere 40 hp compact for doing our sidewalks and internals... First night out as buddy just begins to drive down the street and the left side upright linkage of the 3 point hitch snaps and it cant be welded... The dealers dont stock these parts cause there not super common to break i guess, but luckily Deeres wearhouse in grimsby had one and was able to get it to use the next day and the problem was taken care of... I woulnt have mattered how much money I saved on an import tractor when I would have had customers screaming at me for the next 2 or 3 months until the boat came in if it was an import tractor.... Thats pretty much how i became sold on Deere...


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## rob_cook2001

A good friend of mine bought a Kiote (60-70 hp) FWA with a cab a few years ago. I kept telling him to spend the money on a Deere but he told me the Kiote was just as good. He had no issues for the first 500 hours. After that it went to hell. In 1500 hours he went through 3 clutches(each one took a few weeks to get in). The tractor over heated all the time. He had to replace all the nuts and bolts in the cab because they were rattling out. He bent 4 or 5 wheels in the time he owned this thing. This thing never pushed snow, all it ever did was pull a 7ft mower. Fast forward a few years and now he has 2 Deere's.
Robert


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## buckwheat_la

i have a hobby farmer (100acres, a couple cows, 5horses) who swears by his Montana brand tractor. He absolutely loves it, paid $15000 less then a JD and has no real problems with it and there is dealer support close by. I wouldn't have even given it a look myself at the time, but so far he is 4 years into his machine, and he does all his haying and baling with it, big rounds too.


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## JD Dave

The main parts warehouse for CNH is in Brampton and JD is in Grimsby and if by an off chance they don't have the parts they'll have them in 24 hours which is a big plus. Another thing to realize is it's great to save 15k but when you sell it you'll lose alot more then that on resale.


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## buckwheat_la

JD Dave;1035076 said:


> The main parts warehouse for CNH is in Brampton and JD is in Grimsby and if by an off chance they don't have the parts they'll have them in 24 hours which is a big plus. Another thing to realize is it's great to save 15k but when you sell it you'll lose alot more then that on resale.


very true, resale on any import tractor knockoff, is going to be very low, good advice JD Dave.


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## MIDTOWNPC

Interesting points from all.

Has anyone ever gone and looked at some of these dealers that advertise all these tractors.


I actually went one time to a small little place cause I was intersted in pricing one, and by accident the guy gave me his cost sheet. What a markup!!! That was a year or so back. I still have it somewhere. They come crated and depending on what you order there are different prices for the shipping. The costs are alot less then some advertise. This was for the small 23 hp Jinma's. 

I think there was something someone mentioned before about the imported generators, that they worked fine for a bit but any repairs and no one would work on one.

I just wanted to see what opinions you guys had and if anyone had any experience.


I guess a good comparison would be to get a cost per hour on some equal sized machines and compare how long they last typically. thats alot of varibles but still.


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## creativedesigns

Triple L;1034985 said:


> It woulnt have mattered how much money I saved on an import tractor when I would have had customers screaming at me for the next 2 or 3 months until the boat came in if it was an import tractor.... Thats pretty much how i became sold on Deere...


Im pretty sure it was JD Dave that brainwashed u into going Green!


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## Pristine PM ltd

If Creative falls in the forest, and we ignore him, does he make a sound... or just...?


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## creativedesigns

Dave, do u think Kubota has similar resale values as John Deere?

(keeping in mind that the machines are propery greased & maintained)


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## MIDTOWNPC

is there a book on equipment. like a blue book?

or just use online comparison?


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## Triple L

Pristine PM ltd;1035162 said:


> If Creative falls in the forest, and we ignore him, does he make a sound... or just...?


he kinda scares me with how he knows more about my companie(s) then I do 

Im starting to get scared to go out plowing alone now :laughing:


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## Pristine PM ltd

aw, he's harmless, he just likes to watch from a distance... as his police record will tell.


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## JohnnyRoyale

MIDTOWNPC;1035151 said:


> I think there was something someone mentioned before about the imported generators, that they worked fine for a bit but any repairs and no one would work on one.


That was me. Expensive lesson learned.

I looked into Fotons a few years ago, I dont trust them.


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## JohnnyRoyale

MIDTOWNPC;1035151 said:


> Interesting points from all.
> 
> Has anyone ever gone and looked at some of these dealers that advertise all these tractors.


The distributor of the brand I went to see sold them out of his barn, on some back gravel road 30kms from civilization. I'm thinking WTF? as we're pulling into his driveway.


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## JD Dave

creativedesigns;1035165 said:


> Dave, do u think Kubota has similar resale values as John Deere?
> 
> (keeping in mind that the machines are propery greased & maintained)


Kubota's are very good machine's but they don't have the resale value of Deere. I just read that it was Honda's 40th year in Canada, who would have thought 40 years ago that they would control so much of the market now. I'm sure there is some good off brands but I will gauruntee they're not from China.


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## buckwheat_la

JD Dave;1035213 said:


> Kubota's are very good machine's but they don't have the resale value of Deere. I just read that it was Honda's 40th year in Canada, who would have thought 40 years ago that they would control so much of the market now. I'm sure there is some good off brands but I will gauruntee they're not from China.


Around here, the smaller Kubota's hold there own against Deere, when you get into the bigger machines i haven't a clue, mainly because i don't know anyone that uses a large Kubota for farming, everything is either red, or green.


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## dellwas

Guess what. John Deere compacts (as are the majority, if not all of the compacts) are foreign. Granted, most are Yanmar/Kawasaki, but import none the less:

http://www.compacttractorreview.com/articles/Compact-Tractor-Companies.aspx



Triple L;1034985 said:


> This winter we used a John Deere 40 hp compact for doing our sidewalks and internals... First night out as buddy just begins to drive down the street and the left side upright linkage of the 3 point hitch snaps and it cant be welded... The dealers dont stock these parts cause there not super common to break i guess, but luckily Deeres wearhouse in grimsby had one and was able to get it to use the next day and the problem was taken care of... I woulnt have mattered how much money I saved on an import tractor when I would have had customers screaming at me for the next 2 or 3 months until the boat came in if it was an import tractor.... Thats pretty much how i became sold on Deere...


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## JD Dave

dellwas;1035742 said:


> Guess what. John Deere compacts (as are the majority, if not all of the compacts) are foreign. Granted, most are Yanmar/Kawasaki, but import none the less:
> 
> http://www.compacttractorreview.com/articles/Compact-Tractor-Companies.aspx


I agree but the top five makes have a dealer network across North America with part distribution centre's to back them all up. All machinery will break some more then others but the main thing is to have the parts available within 24 hrs to fix them. I honestly don't think Deere has the best compact tractors but I would still buy one because of dealer support and parts availability. IMO compact tractors are way over priced for what they are but that's a whole other story.


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## dellwas

Good points...

However, I was simply pointing out that much of the big N.A. compacts are foreign made, just assembled here. I think the OP had the notion they were built in N.A.,. which they aren't, only assembled here.



JD Dave;1035749 said:


> I agree but the top five makes have a dealer network across North America with part distribution centre's to back them all up. All machinery will break some more then others but the main thing is to have the parts available within 24 hrs to fix them. I honestly don't think Deere has the best compact tractors but I would still buy one because of dealer support and parts availability. IMO compact tractors are way over priced for what they are but that's a whole other story.


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## DeereMan85

dellwas;1035762 said:


> Good points...
> 
> However, I was simply pointing out that much of the big N.A. compacts are foreign made, just assembled here. I think the OP had the notion they were built in N.A.,. which they aren't, only assembled here.


Assembled and built mean the same thing. The distinction is between assembled and made, the latter meaning that all components were made here. A tractor could be built using 80% American components but would still be labeled "Assembled in the US." The term "assembled" is used as opposed to "made" because some of the components may come from overseas. This does not mean, as many seem to think, that all the components are made overseas and assembled here. In fact if that were the case, they may not even be able to use the "assembled in US" designation. Most of the components are made here, but some are not. The components are put together to make a tractor in Georgia, so they are about as American as you'll find. The link below explains the differences in great detail.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm


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## dellwas

I think we're basically saying the same thing, although I didn't quite word it quite right. You'd be hard pressed to find anything fully made, built, whatever you want to call it, in N.A., today. For example, my '96 HD has Showa forks, Keihin carb, and Toshiba electrics, yet it came out of the York, PA plant.



DeereMan85;1035767 said:


> Assembled and built mean the same thing. The distinction is between assembled and made, the latter meaning that all components were made here. A tractor could be built using 80% American components but would still be labeled "Assembled in the US." The term "assembled" is used as opposed to "made" because some of the components may come from overseas. This does not mean, as many seem to think, that all the components are made overseas and assembled here. In fact if that were the case, they may not even be able to use the "assembled in US" designation. Most of the components are made here, but some are not. The components are put together to make a tractor in Georgia, so they are about as American as you'll find. The link below explains the differences in great detail.
> 
> http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm


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## Triple L

JD Dave;1035749 said:


> I honestly don't think Deere has the best compact tractors


Really! Just out of curosity who in your oppinion does then? Im guessing Kubota?

Deere has the most powerful compacts, Nicest cab, and biggest front axle, expecially when compared to CNH


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## creativedesigns

Triple L;1035851 said:


> Really! Just out of curosity who in your oppinion does then? Im guessing Kubota?


You guessed right! A Kubota B26 can easily fit thru most side spaces into residential backyards for excavation digouts, ect. Thats why compact tractors alike are very costly for being a specialty machine!!!

You should be getting min $100/hr with compact machines.


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## Chrisxl64

mahindra is a huggggge company in INDIA,,,and exports its stuff to M&M Mahindra Tractors USA, i only know 1 guy who owns one,,,and likes it.


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## Triple L

creativedesigns;1035865 said:


> You guessed right! A Kubota B26 can easily fit thru most side spaces into residential backyards for excavation digouts, ect. Thats why compact tractors alike are very costly for being a specialty machine!!!
> 
> You should be getting min $100/hr with compact machines.


maby for small landscaping but you aint gonna be pushing much snow or blowing much of anything with 19 pto hp...

I also think $100 / hour is a little outragous for a $30,000 tractor... It wount be seeing much use at that price IMO...


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## JD Dave

Triple L;1035851 said:


> Really! Just out of curosity who in your oppinion does then? Im guessing Kubota?
> 
> Deere has the most powerful compacts, Nicest cab, and biggest front axle, expecially when compared to CNH


I think Deere is the best I just didn't want everyone to think I was brain washed.


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## MIDTOWNPC

lots of reading here to catch up... good posts guys. 

do you guys think that it matters what you use to your customer?


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## creativedesigns

Triple L;1035869 said:


> maby for small landscaping but you aint gonna be pushing much snow or blowing much of anything with 19 pto hp...
> 
> Thats exactly what I said, for resi landscapes & in backyards...that machine will outpreform 4 guys with shovels/wheelbarrows anyday! And best of all, one machine knocks two guys off the crew, therefore paying for itself & saving u overhead dollars!!!
> 
> I also think $100 / hour is a little outragous for a $30,000 tractor... It wount be seeing much use at that price IMO...
> 
> Fine, $90/hr then. Cheaper to invest in a machine than carry out payroll for 5 guys every week! Been there done that x 10. That machine is a lil more than $30K too! lol :waving:


...........................


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## JohnnyRoyale

For once I will agree with you Cre.


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## Triple L

Isnt that crazy, Cre actually has a little bit of common sence LOL 

I agree with you 100% also Cre, except there a few on tractor house, hardly any of them are over $30,000....

I'd take the tractor way before I take a mini skid....


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## buckwheat_la

i think the smaller tractors have their place in any landscaping operation, doesn't leave tracks on the grass like a skidsteer, fits through smaller openings. My little massey gc2300 has been a great unit, fits perfect on a 48 inch sidewalk for plowing, 23.5hp gives it some push, we use it both for landscaping, and with a 60inch belly mower for cutting grass. In a pinch we have cleared small parking lots with it (usually if one of the skidsteers is broken down) and being that it is two speed, with a 50 inch snow push on the front, it can usually keep up.


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## LoneCowboy

creativedesigns;1035865 said:


> You should be getting min $100/hr with compact machines.


Yep
which is the exact problem with compact machines.
They cost just as much to run and operate as a bigger machine. ($30 to $35/hour, see construction equipment magazine) but let's be honest
it doesn't do the work that even slightly bigger machines can do

EXCEPT in specific specialized situations when only that machine will work.

Yes, you should be getting $100/hour or so for the machine.
but if any other bigger machine can fit or do the job, you're going to lose the bid, because your equipment isn't big enough for the cost you should charge to pay for it.

Or, you specialize in just tiny projects. (which is fine too, but it makes it even more expensive to run because you get fewer projects. Not that you don't win more, but there are simply fewer small projects)

On topic.

Blue, Green or Orange (New Holland, John Deere or Kubota) (or Agco to be honest), everything else you're going to regret at some point.


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## MIDTOWNPC

Agco has a few brands under their belt don't they.
I was wondering if the valtra was one. 

also been seeing this Landini lately


The horst welding website they have a tractor demoing all the products in a video and its a FENDT tractor. Looks huge


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## cretebaby

MIDTOWNPC;1036215 said:


> Agco has a few brands under their belt don't they.
> I was wondering if the valtra was one.
> 
> also been seeing this Landini lately
> 
> The horst welding website they have a tractor demoing all the products in a video and its a FENDT tractor. Looks huge


Valtra is an AGCO company.

http://www.valtra.us/


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## MIDTOWNPC

cretebaby;1036244 said:


> Valtra is an AGCO company.
> 
> http://www.valtra.us/


wow that company is huge. fendt is also an agco company.

There has been a Valtra Valmet 6400 with a 12ft blade forsale for a long time. $39 000
only 700 hours. Its a big tractor!

So I guess perhaps it does hurt the resale on a non deere machine but buying used does it not make it a better buy.


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