# Running a separate salt truck, who does it?



## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

I notice that most guys in my area drive around with a V box in each of their pick-ups or 1 ton dump trucks. It doesn't seem that to many guys run a completely separate salt truck during a storm. I am wondering why? And for those who do, have you found the advantages to be worth the extra cost?

I am really looking at how to tighten up my route this year, plow the most I can, and make the most $ out of each piece of equipment as I am looking at dropping landscaping services next year and becoming a snow only business. And running a separate salt truck is starting to look like more and more of an option. 

I have one truck with a salter, my 1 ton dump. The problem I have now is that during a storm a site will need salt, whatever that dump truck is plowing gets rushed through and the truck runs off to salt the other site. In the mean time the trucks whole route is falling behind and our response time is going down. Then the other issue is at the end of the storm. All of us will run through and plow every parking lot one last time, then one of us will jump in the dump truck and go salt everything which after 20 or so hours of plowing is a little intense, and (depending on the storm time) there is always this mad rush to get it all salted before 7am in just the few hours from when we are done plowing to when everything opens. The only way I can see to remedy this is to have a dedicated salt truck follow the rest of the fleet and treat each parking lot as they are finished being plowed. Any opinions?

As for a truck, I was thinking something like a used international 4300 with a 6 yard or so mounted directly on the frame. Any thoughts on this?


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

merrimacmill;1056116 said:


> And running a separate salt truck is starting to look like more and more of an option.


It's a great option for you....I would most definitely pursue this.

Dedicated salt trucks are a must (at least for us they are). Most of our Internationals have belly blades. Not an ideal plow for parking lots or detail work ~ but they can help assist in creating windrows for the other plows or pushers until the time is right for them to salt. Their main function is salting only.

Scheduling the timing of your dedicated plow trucks and salt only trucks within your response plans is easy. Executing your plan(s) with all that can and does go wrong is the challenge.


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## mullis56 (Jul 12, 2005)

All of our salt trucks are just that, for reasons as TCLA mentioned above plus no risk of tearing them up plowing snow and we keep them in the shop until needed. Around here it is a normal except for the one or few truck guys.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

We've done it both ways, and IMO the best route is to run dedicated salt trucks. They get loaded shortly after the plow trucks and machines start and start salting right behind the plow trucks and machines. They sometimes have to wait around for a lot to clear up, or will bounce between two close sites and salt whatever is cleared. There is less pressure to rush through things by the morning after everything has been plowed. We still have two inserts we keep around in case of a breakdown, but for the most part all the salting gets done with dedicated trucks. Our International hooklifts have proven to be a wicked cool tool for us-something you may want to consider if you can justify it.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

JohnnyRoyale;1056136 said:


> They get loaded shortly after the plow trucks and machines start and start salting right behind the plow trucks and machines.


You mean you don't have 12 of them pre-loaded and parked in the heated Royale shop waiting for the first flake to touch down? tymusic


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

When it comes to selecting a truck for salting, what do you guys look for? I've never owned a truck larger than a 3500 so its kind of foreign territory for me. 

Are you mounting the salters directly on the frame? I've seen this done and always wonder if it causes problems with the driveshaft, etc with the spillage. I am looking at a higher miles 2004 international 4300 with 196,000 miles on it. It was used as a dry van, but is now just a cab/chassis. The way I have been thinking of it is I will be putting almost no miles per year on a salt truck, and since salting will be its only purpose, I would prefer a lower initial purchase cost. But generally speaking, for a truck of this type, is that just "too many miles"??

Thanks


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

We used too-and it was sweet. We sold our old building and yard (which we outgrew) and moved to a location about an hour away with plenty of room-and closer to our homes.
When we made that move we were seriously planning on scaling down a bit, but before we knew it, we were into it deeper than ever and were forced to rent something that would allow us to store salt and had some secure outside storage. So we rented a smaller location we primarily use for the winter (a friend of ours uses it in the summer) and dont have that luxury anymore.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

You can frame mount no problem. Be sure to add fenders.
Those miles arent high IMO. Our Mack had 650,000 kms on it when we mounted that huge DownEaster to it. It pulled a float all of its life. 
Just be sure you have the axle ratings required to accomodate truck, salter and load or you may be in trouble with the DOT. Dry vans typically have light front ends. 
Our Internationals are legal for 7.5 tonnes of salt with 39K GVWR (16 front/23 rear)..


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I have 4 salt only trucks. 3 are frame mounted. I have the bottom of the salter covered to prevent the snow from falling on the frame, brake lines, fuel lines and every thing else down there. Frame mounted salters allow for more salt capacity. I have a lot of locations that have to be done in a short time frame and this seems to work best.

I have seen lots of older trucks for good prices. Last year I bought a GMC 6500 with a dump bed, 3126 Cat and a 10' Boss blade that had 53,000 miles for $15,000. It is a 2001 that didn't see the road until 2003.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

We run a couple trucks for "salting only" but they still have plows on the front just in case. Example: Plow truck leaves the lot, couple minutes later the only car left in the lot leaves, when the salt truck shows up he can clean up that one spot instead of just salting around it.

The salting only trucks are great for your foreman or supervisors to check up on what got done, and if theres a small touch up that needs to be done or something, they can do it.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

I worked with an operation a few years back that ran everything as "dual-purpose" (plow/salt), but I modified that protocol somewhat for them. Most of the trucks had at least a 2 yd V, a couple had 4+. We did a lot of larger lots, so we would send a 2 yd truck out for front line plowing/.salting, and then the 4 yd+ trucks (F-550s, one of which was mine) were the "salt" trucks. We had nice new 9' blades on them, but we were the "back up/clean up" guys. If we dropped our blades, it's because either the weather picked up, or someone else dropped the ball and we had to pick it up and fix their f-up.

On a side note, you veteran guys will appreciate this:

On several occasions I would pull in and observe our guys working the hard way. After a few minutes of this, I would stroll down to ask nonchalantly "WTF are you doing, exactly? I should be spreading right now, and you're not even half done" and proceed to play a little "follow the leader" to show them how it should be done. Turns out (much to their chagrin) that doing multi-acre lots by driving 400' _backwards_ between every pass wastes time. Who knew?? I told one guy "you seldom hit things when driving in the direction the vehicle was designed to go, and that long ladder on your rack is going to be a problem for you". He rolled his eyes...and promptly knocked over a light pole a week later with said ladder whilst driving backwards.

<shrug>


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## ff610 (Jan 9, 2009)

I've done it both ways. The problem is I can't seem to have a salt truck without a blade on it for touch-ups, then I always think I need to use the truck more with heavy snows. I always end up using the salt trucks as front line plow/salt trucks then! I have spreaders on the back of every truck because I can't seem to get used to the idea of running every route twice. Efficiency was always my thoughts, but I've been re-thinking it again too. Mostly for my liquids though...


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

Simple rule of thumb--small trucks work best to move average snow, but have little salt capacity. Big trucks move big snow, and have superior salt capacity.

I know a few of the larger outfits here (one in particular) that own virtually *no* "plow trucks", but lots of fancy salt trucks--all with blades (usually 10' V's) and a bunch of "iron" (pushers & associated equipment). They sub out the vast majority of the plowing, and simply run salt routes (rumor has it, very, _very_ expensive salt routes...)


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

We don't have plows on our our salt trucks. Generally in bigger storms where salt won't be needed for a few hours I plow with the spare tractor or pickkup. Frame mounted salter are the only way to go if you want to be snow only. Just remember when trucks sit all summer they need extra care taken to keep them from seizing.


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

To expand a bit on what Dave said, we run 5 V-box salters in 450 & 550 fords. They also plow. Last season we bought a Swenson electric tailgate unit to mount on one of our larger 750 dumps. It's really nice, spreads very well and carries 2X the salt of a 10ft Western V-box. 2X the capacity means less loading and trips to a salt bin, which means more time salting.........We & I assume most others who offer salting service make our best margins on salting, it's very efficient. Plus the boss here absolutely does not believe in dedicated purpose equipment(except min excavators), it keeps a truck that would otherwise sit for the winter producing. We will add 2 more like this this season, but they'll be on CDL trucks and will have even greater capacity. Good point on the front axle rating, lots of purpose built box trucks are "light duty". Here's the question I'd be asking if I were you- Am I going to make enough salting that the truck can sit 8-9 months out of the year, bear in mind salt eats things year round.......Or could I keep a dump truck busy at least sometimes during the other 8-9 months in my core business or even maybe running loads for a mulch yard or something??? We run a good sized design/build operation when it's not snowing, so our trucks roll year round.


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## MidcoastMainiac (Aug 27, 2009)

A plus for having a plow on the salt truck is, when you are salt/sanding those glare ice driveways that head down hill from the road, the plow acts as a bumper steering bouncing off the snow banks skidding down the hill.


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## 04chevy2500 (Oct 7, 2009)

we run two dedicated salt trucks. one is a one ton w a small plow just to scrape or push a little if needed. mainly as a backup. this one runs straight salt. the other is a 6 wheeler that has our sand salt mix. works well. whoever finishes first just runs back to the shop and grabs whichever salter they need and then begin the salt route. that way the salt isnt out in the weather either and the motors start without the helping hand of ether  seems to work well for us. im sure you would find the same.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

MidcoastMainiac;1057787 said:


> A plus for having a plow on the salt truck is, when you are salt/sanding those glare ice driveways that head down hill from the road, the plow acts as a bumper steering bouncing off the snow banks skidding down the hill.


Just back it down the hill, don't be afraid.


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## MidcoastMainiac (Aug 27, 2009)

No fun in backing. Just point it straight, put plow into v position, shoot and go hoping you put enough salt and sand down to get back out and hope you can stop at the end. What a rush. lol

I have one drive that is like this that is over a mile long. It uses all of my 2 yard sander full. Hate backing up that far.


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## GLSS22 (Dec 31, 2007)

There was an article in snow magazine awhile back that talked about using dedicated salt trucks., but I cant find it. There are lots of benefits to a "salt" only truck. Currently we don't run any of trucks without plows, but at least 2 of our trucks begin salting far before all the plowing is done. It looks better to our clients, and a lot plowed but not salted is just as bad as never touching it, IMO . ( from a liability stand point). We used to lease a int 4300 and it worked great for us. Although you may fit more salt into a frame mounted spreader, Ive always like the idea of having a dump bed and tailgate salter. It gives you the option to haul snow, if need be. Hope this helps, and good luck getting into the snow only business.


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## JRSlawn (Jan 15, 2004)

There is a company right down the road from our shop who has at least 15-20 salt trucks and the only trucks that have plows are the two owners trucks they use strictly to help out all there subs. They have snow plowing down to a science. I used to sub for them years ago and they taught me quite a bit about snow plowing. Each salt truck was operated by the route foreman he was in charge of a certain amount of accounts in a specific area he was in charge of making sure all the sidewalks got shoveled by his subs and lots were plowed by the sub he also would call us back out to a lot if it wasn't perfect.


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## twinbrothers (Jan 16, 2009)

running a separate truck is the way to go if you have the work to keep it busy. If you buy you should use it and make money with it. We usually push ten plus tons out of our salt trucks per event and that keeps them profitable. We do have blades on them for clean up or picking up the pieces. I put my best guys in these trucks and made them route managers.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

JRSlawn;1060688 said:


> There is a company right down the road from our shop who has at least 15-20 salt trucks and the only trucks that have plows are the two owners trucks they use strictly to help out all there subs. They have snow plowing down to a science. I used to sub for them years ago and they taught me quite a bit about snow plowing. Each salt truck was operated by the route foreman he was in charge of a certain amount of accounts in a specific area he was in charge of making sure all the sidewalks got shoveled by his subs and lots were plowed by the sub he also would call us back out to a lot if it wasn't perfect.


I was thinking about doing something similar. Over the years we always had a great mix of in house gear, rental gear and subs with equipment. It seemed the subs and operators (which were laid off from their construction jobs in the winter) always caused us less grief than the employees.

That company you are referring to has a great formula. Keep the most lucrative aspect of the business in house, while piecing off the grunt work to subs, and delegate the salt truck driver to be "quality control manager" for his particular sites.

Overhead is minimized-just imagine all of the equipment required to keep 15-20 salt trucks busy. The key there would be to have happy subs-which are easier to find than great employees.


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## bterry (Oct 30, 2003)

My biggest truck capable of spreading salt has a blade. It starts out at our biggest lot and pushes until the plows get enough ahead that it can stop pushing, and just salt. The blade on the front rarely hits the ground once in salt mode, but it's there for cleaning up entrances atfer the city plows, or moved cars, etc.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

Bingo. Think of the blade on the salt truck as a last line of defense before the client arrives at the property. If the salt driver (who should be in a supervisory role, as has been mentioned) sees something "wrong", and he does not have a blade, then he must summon a truck back to the property to fix said problem. And what if that problem prevents him from salting the property? Now you're risking the entire route's time line because of one pesky drift? No way.

You might think "how do you hold a sub accountable if you fix his error?" 
I counter with "how do you explain to the client's manager that A) you're not quite done, and B) your truck is incapable of completing the job?"

Your call!


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Merrimac, did you ever pursue the option of buying a Dedicated Salt truck?

I run a dedicated truck "only" as its a strong component in routing.

If running a plow/salter truck, theres too much possibility of damage to the spreader while out plowing. Salting as a service typically is a higher margine of service than plowing, so waiting until plowing routes are done before you start applying de-icing material can put you behind. Dedicated salt trucks also eliminates the need to go back to preform more clean-up from additional accumulation at sites, if salt material wasn't applied on the ground when it was cleared initially.

In better results timing is more important than quantity or over-applying to produce better results. Also saves money. :waving:


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

No, I didn't this year. The account layout this year just doesn't require it. I am adding another 2 yard spreader though, but not a large salt truck. Hopefully next year.

I do see the added benefits though, and I think it would be a good option, but I had to put so much money into new plowing equipment (new truck, tractor, and skid steer) this year that since a salt truck wasn't absolutely necessary, I'm going to wait another year.

I'm looking at a 2 yard downeaster poly/electric model from "ColumbiaLand"


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

Westhardt Corp.;1060850 said:


> Bingo. Think of the blade on the salt truck as a last line of defense before the client arrives at the property. If the salt driver (who should be in a supervisory role, as has been mentioned) sees something "wrong", and he does not have a blade, then he must summon a truck back to the property to fix said problem. And what if that problem prevents him from salting the property? Now you're risking the entire route's time line because of one pesky drift? No way.
> 
> You might think "how do you hold a sub accountable if you fix his error?"
> I counter with "how do you explain to the client's manager that A) you're not quite done, and B) your truck is incapable of completing the job?"
> ...


good post !!!


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

I have to agree with the dedicated salt truck. The reason I went to the dedicated truck was more about preserving my plow truck than any other reason. 

I have found out the hard way that salt is very tough on any truck, I would think most would agree with me on that. I know guys will say " I wash my truck after every event" rust is accelerated 10 fold when you apply salt, wash all you want. When I purchased my first dedicated salt truck my plow truck was new so it made sense to me to find a cheap truck and put a salter in it. 

The first truck I did this with and the brake lines, fuel lines, and gas tank went and the rest of the truck rusted real fast just like I knew it would. I used that truck for parts and bought another cheap truck to do it all over again. I have found this to be smarter, more cost efficient way.

Buying a $45,000 truck and puting a salter in it is not smart IMO.  

Buying a cheap truck to salt with makes sense to me and has work well so far, you just have to accept that the truck will end up scrap in very short order. Fluid Film is nice but will only slow it down not stop it.


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## adksnowo (Dec 14, 2005)

What about leasing a flatbed for like 6 months from Hertz equipment or something? Less $$$ invested if the dedicated truck thing doesn't work out and you get to ruin a truck that doesn't belong to you in the salt slop.


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## SnowGuy (Jan 7, 2006)

We have plowed for 36 years and have found (in our opinion) that we like to go with a spreader on each truck. We plow the lot, spread it and move on. Plus if one goes down, we have all the other trucks ready to help out. Just what we do !


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

SnowGuy;1108046 said:


> We have plowed for 36 years and have found (in our opinion) that we like to go with a spreader on each truck. We plow the lot, spread it and move on. Plus if one goes down, we have all the other trucks ready to help out. Just what we do !


So you plow all your sites with a couple tonnes of salt in each truck at the same time? Thats over the weight limit while carrying a plow. Plus its more dangerous trying to stop with all that weight, burns more fuel & cuts break life down considerably. If you break down, you loose a 2-in-1 system.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

SnowGuy;1108046 said:


> We have plowed for 36 years and have found (in our opinion) that we like to go with a spreader on each truck. We plow the lot, spread it and move on. Plus if one goes down, we have all the other trucks ready to help out. Just what we do !


I tried that once, all the salt froze up in the box and was the biggest nightmare I can remember...


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

For what it's worth, we run nothing but plow trucks with 2 yards in the back. It works for what we do, and that is how you have to look at it. What is affordable, what makes the most sense, and what works for you.

This will be our first year running a truck that will mostly salt, it will still plow a site or two to start things off.

We don't have huge plaza's or malls, we are mostly condo streets and alot of handsalting. It all depends what you do.


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## ryde307 (Dec 3, 2009)

We are small in the snow world. I have always beena sub but this year went on our own. We did not get as much work as planned.
But we purchased a service trucks from the local cat dealer this summer aqt auction for a salt truck. It is a 99 3500 hd cab and chassis. we found a 11ft flatbed for cheap at another auction. Then a guy we know getting out of the salt business had a 3+ yard salt dogg stainless salter that was 3 years old but only used a few times because the motor went bad. Purchased a new motor put it in put the whole thing togther and now have a salt truck for cheap. In the summer we will use it to haul pallets of stone or to fertilize. 
Cab and chassis $1600
flatbed $600
Salter $1700
New motor $ 600
total $4500 for a decent set up that we can use all year.


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## JpLawn (Aug 5, 2007)

Pristine PM ltd;1109000 said:


> For what it's worth, we run nothing but plow trucks with 2 yards in the back. It works for what we do, and that is how you have to look at it. What is affordable, what makes the most sense, and what works for you.
> 
> This will be our first year running a truck that will mostly salt, it will still plow a site or two to start things off.
> 
> We don't have huge plaza's or malls, we are mostly condo streets and alot of handsalting. It all depends what you do.


I have to agree with you. It really depends on what type of snow removal you do. We service a lot of condo / apartment complexes and its much easier for us to have sanders on all our trucks. They all treat everything as they go. But what works for me might not work for every one.


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## PTSolutions (Dec 8, 2007)

> For what it's worth, we run nothing but plow trucks with 2 yards in the back. It works for what we do, and that is how you have to look at it. What is affordable, what makes the most sense, and what works for you.
> 
> This will be our first year running a truck that will mostly salt, it will still plow a site or two to start things off.
> 
> We don't have huge plaza's or malls, we are mostly condo streets and alot of handsalting. It all depends what you do.


Pristine makes a very good point. Many guys on here forget about the cost component of efficiency and focus too much on the time component. Alot of us smaller operations (which i consider to be 1 - 10 trucks) need to be as versatile as possible. All of my trucks are swiss army knives b/c i need to get the most bang for my buck out of them. yes that puts alot of accountability on them but for many of us, we dont have the capital to run dedicated equipment. We need to evaluate what we are plowing and figure out if 1, we can afford to run a dedicated salt truck and 2, if it makes sense, where you analyze the time savings and any value adding abilities.


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