# tractor vs loader



## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I'm looking at expanding my services again this year. The big question is what is the benifit of a tractor vs loader? I haven seen pictures of tractors with pushers and plows run off of custom frames. The tractor loaders all seemed removed why is the loader arms removed? Nobody in this area use tractors for anything other than loading salt or plowing sidewalks.
I use a skidsteer(6600 lb) and a mini loader (9200 lb) one runs and plow the other a pusher with no problems but they are shorter runs. I have current excellent customer i do who bought two new properties located next too each other. both accounts are large open lots total area i'm not sure. Pushs around 250' to 400'. The accounts are mine if i want them he likes are service no problems or worries for him. I just want to make sure i provide him the same service level he gets now! 
what size weight range tractor
horse power range
operational costs per hour tractor vs loader


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

When you say tractor, do you mean like a farm tractor? I would think for just snow removal, a loader would be better. You don't need PTOs or all those gears.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Yes i would say a farm tractor. At this time it would be only for snow but you never can tell that could happen. I have my eye on a JD 444 with only 2100 snow hours. It's a one owner unit complete maintance records and fully serviced. I'm just wondering what's the benifit of a tractor. I have read about many people in canada with them and swear they are better but never give any reasons why.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

I would think that would be a good machine. Does that have the rear wheels that steer, along with the frame articulation? What year/letter/horsepower? What are the tires? I have heard that radials are big money, but well worth it on snow. The 344 or smaller has the tighter turn radius, and is a real asset for snow removal.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

fireside;781158 said:


> I'm just wondering what's the benifit of a tractor.


Cheaper to purchase and operate


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Because they're cheap horse power. You could get 2 tractors for the price of one loader.

Both are equally effective for clearing snow

Personally, I would opt for a loader to load trucks or push backs, but thats jmo.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

2COR517;781159 said:


> I would think that would be a good machine. Does that have the rear wheels that steer, along with the frame articulation? What year/letter/horsepower? What are the tires? I have heard that radials are big money, but well worth it on snow. The 344 or smaller has the tighter turn radius, and is a real asset for snow removal.


I thinks it's a JD E444 year 87 or 88. it's just an center articulating loader only. The machine is in great shape stored indoors almost all year round. They currently run a 12' pro-tech pusher with no problems. I was thinking maybe i could get a new tractor for the same money or a little more. I just need to make sure it will due the same job


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

If I could buy a used loader or new tractor for the same money, its a no brainer. I would buy the loader. Sounds like the machine is well cared for, and is proven in the snow. That nice high seat gives good visibility, and the transmission is designed for non stop back and forth. Less hit on depreciation if you decide to sell it. Don't forget you need to put a nice heated hard cab on the tractor. Are you mechanically inclined for service and such?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

2COR517;781230 said:


> If I could buy a used loader or new tractor for the same money, its a no brainer. I would buy the loader. Sounds like the machine is well cared for, and is proven in the snow. That nice high seat gives good visibility, and the transmission is designed for non stop back and forth. Less hit on depreciation if you decide to sell it. Don't forget you need to put a nice heated hard cab on the tractor. Are you mechanically inclined for service and such?


Huh?

Why would you but a 20 year old loader over a brand new tractor (with warranty)?

Where is JD when we need him?

It must have finally dried out enough for him to get in the feilds


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

2COR517;781230 said:


> If I could buy a used loader or new tractor for the same money, its a no brainer. I would buy the loader. Sounds like the machine is well cared for, and is proven in the snow. That nice high seat gives good visibility, and the transmission is designed for non stop back and forth. Less hit on depreciation if you decide to sell it. Don't forget you need to put a nice heated hard cab on the tractor. Are you mechanically inclined for service and such?


Actually not that hard to put a cab on a tractor, we put them on all of ours. Do you have any knowledge of tractors at all or are you just amusing us?


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

Now Dave comes out of the wood work... The new Belarus tractors work good for snow?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

JD Dave;781256 said:


> Do you have any knowledge of tractors at all or are you just amusing us?


Feisty!:angry:

I have some knowledge of tractors. My thinking is if I could by a new Canyon pickup, or a used one ton for the same money, I would buy the one ton. Sure they could both move snow, but the bigger truck is going to work easier, and depreciate less quickly, especially up front. I understand that repairs and maintenance may be higher, but that's OK for me personally. A machine that is made to load gravel all day long should last quite a while pushing snow. And you could probably get every penny back in two years if you didn't like it or had to sell. As for the cab installation, I was thinking about cost, not difficulty.

Just my opinions


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

2COR517;781292 said:


> My thinking is if I could by a new Canyon pickup, or a used one ton for the same money, I would buy the one ton. Sure they could both move snow, but the bigger truck is going to work easier, and depreciate less quickly, especially up front.


That isn't even a similiar comparison, besides iron doesn't depreciate like trucks



2COR517;781292 said:


> I understand that repairs and maintenance may be higher, but that's OK for me personally. A machine that is made to load gravel all day long should last quite a while pushing snow. And you could probably get every penny back in two years if you didn't like it or had to sell. As for the cab installation, I was thinking about cost, not difficulty.


Tractors come with cabs from the factory these days

2 year old farm tractors (especially green) with low hours are worth every penny and then some of what you paid for it

Why would you be OK with higher repairs and maintenance ?


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## Cat Man 77 (Jan 31, 2009)

I have a question what is your budget for this? I also prefer wheel loaders because they sit up higher and are more maneuverable because of the center articulation. Also with a loader it is easier to move piles and stack snow. JMO


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

Cat Man 77;781299 said:


> I have a question what is your budget for this? I also prefer wheel loaders because they sit up higher and are more maneuverable because of the center articulation. Also with a loader it is easier to move piles and stack snow. JMO


Which loaders are you comparing? Why would a (wheel) loader sit higher than a tractor?
For that matter, they are all "loaders". You need to compare speed, bucket size, area that you are working (how tight), and brand to get a true idea on benifits and cost of a specific machine.


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## Cat Man 77 (Jan 31, 2009)

blowerman;781304 said:


> Which loaders are you comparing? Why would a (wheel) loader sit higher than a tractor?
> For that matter, they are all "loaders". You need to compare speed, bucket size, area that you are working (how tight), and brand to get a true idea on benifits and cost of a specific machine.


Generally wheel loaders have a higher seat height and greater visibility. Just my opinion.


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

It depends on what your looking for/at. The large articulating tractors sit up every bit as high as a wheelloader. I have never used a tractor for pushing snow but if you do a search & research it, you'll find plenty of guys that swear by them. Look under user names, JD dave, & redman???? both have posted plenty of info. Google chase enterprise & check his as well. Tractors for one are geared for pusing/pulling whereas wheeloaders are set up to lift & carry materials. Knowledge is every thing, take the time to educate yourself to make a smart decision comparing apples to apples as to which better suit your needs.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

RLM;781327 said:


> It depends on what your looking for/at. The large articulating tractors sit up every bit as high as a wheelloader. I have never used a tractor for pushing snow but if you do a search & research it, you'll find plenty of guys that swear by them. Look under user names, JD dave, & redman???? both have posted plenty of info. Google chase enterprise & check his as well. Tractors for one are geared for pusing/pulling whereas wheeloaders are set up to lift & carry materials. Knowledge is every thing, take the time to educate yourself to make a smart decision comparing apples to apples as to which better suit your needs.


Well said. I will add that if I had to load snow I would pick a wheel loader but if I had to push it I'd pick a tractor. when I talk tractors I'm also talking 100 hp and up. Also the cab thing was a joke, I've never actually owned a tractor without a factory cab. Tractors are not a new thing around here for pushing snow, my dad started plowing malls back in the early 70's and we've been doing them ever since. We actually have owned a JD 544 but we found it was cheaper and more productive for us to use tractors. Keep an open mind, in the long run it will make you money.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

budget is around 50k. With the snowfall we get here i have not moved any snow in 7 years.
I do need the option to pile the snow when we plow. I currently use a skidsteer and mini loader to pile as they plow two lumber yards. Could i leave the loader on the tractor and mount the pusher as normal or does it need to be removed? Leaving the loader on would allow me to stack snow with the pusher as we plow. I would like to use a 12' pusher max so we could use it on all the accounts if needed.
Tractor weight vs HP they seem to be much lighter than loaders of same HP. So what size tractor weight and HP would i need to look at to run a 10' to 12' pusher.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

fireside;781464 said:


> budget is around 50k. With the snowfall we get here i have not moved any snow in 7 years.
> I do need the option to pile the snow when we plow. I currently use a skidsteer and mini loader to pile as they plow two lumber yards. Could i leave the loader on the tractor and mount the pusher as normal or does it need to be removed? Leaving the loader on would allow me to stack snow with the pusher as we plow. I would like to use a 12' pusher max so we could use it on all the accounts if needed.
> Tractor weight vs HP they seem to be much lighter than loaders of same HP. So what size tractor weight and HP would i need to look at to run a 10' to 12' pusher.


You really havn't pushed for seven years?

You can mount the pusher to the loader bucket or to the bucket coupler, either way it would only take a couple of minute to change from pusher to bucket

I would say for a 10/12' pusher something the size of a 6000 series Deere would be the ticket


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

I can run one of my 10ft arctics on my Deere 4520. But Its real heavy and I don't like to do it to much.

You could get by with say a Deere 5000 or 6000 series. The will both handle a 10 to 12ft with no problems at all.

J.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

cretebaby;781473 said:


> You really havn't pushed for seven years?
> 
> You can mount the pusher to the loader bucket or to the bucket coupler, either way it would only take a couple of minute to change from pusher to bucket
> 
> I would say for a 10/12' pusher something the size of a 6000 series Deere would be the ticket


No i have not relocated any snow in the past 7 years. We had a great season this year but the last 4 season before this year i forgot what snow was!!!!


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## musclecarboy (Aug 19, 2007)

2COR517;781292 said:


> Feisty!:angry:
> 
> I have some knowledge of tractors. My thinking is if I could by a new Canyon pickup, or a used one ton for the same money, I would buy the one ton. Sure they could both move snow, but the bigger truck is going to work easier, and depreciate less quickly, especially up front. I understand that repairs and maintenance may be higher, but that's OK for me personally. *A machine that is made to load gravel all day long should last quite a while pushing snow.* And you could probably get every penny back in two years if you didn't like it or had to sell. As for the cab installation, I was thinking about cost, not difficulty.
> 
> Just my opinions


What do you think a tractor is designed to do? Working in feilds with the PTO screaming isn't the easiest work on a machine, so snow pushing would be MUCH lighter on a tractor compared to summer work. The technology advancements over the last 20 years allow machines of today to be 10, 20, or even 30 times more advanced than a 1988 machine. As said before, a tractor is cheap HP compared to a loader so do the research. I'm going off what Dave says and I know he uses 100+hp machines (JD 7000 series I think).


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

This this is a 95hp Deere with a 24 year old Frink 14 ft power angle blade. The lot I'm plowing is a little more then 1 acre, look at the time it took me to plow it.

http://i181.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid181.photobucket.com/albums/x277/JDDave/SANY0160.flv

12 ft Horst Pusher on a 95hp Deere.

http://i181.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid181.photobucket.com/albums/x277/JDDave/DSCN3091.flv

205hp Case with a 16 ft pusher.

http://i181.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid181.photobucket.com/albums/x277/JDDave/SANY0092.flv


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Never said a tractor wouldn't hold up moving snow.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

tractors hands down, not even close


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

go look at my pictures and see my tractor vs my 5 yard loader. my 5 yard loader, full 16' pusher is in 1st gear screaming vs. my tractor, full 16' pusher is at 2000 rpm, barely burning fuel, and moving the snow like it was paper.


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## sven_502 (Nov 1, 2008)

I can vouch for tractors although I'm joking with my 30hp compact John deere 790 compared to your guys toys, but they definitley move their fair share of snow. I have a 1/2 mile horse track at my house and the snow drifts really high in one corner, sometimes up to 3 feet, sometimes if its deep enough my truck will just spin and I get out the tractor, and with the bucket just plow right through it. Plus if I manage to bury myself I can use the front end loader and push out usually. If I pile some weight on the 3 pt on our 50hp 1973 JD 1120 front end loader (2wd) its like driving a bulldozer the snow doesnt have a chance.


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## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

I don't have much experience with ag based tractors (like many of the other mebers on this site) but I do have loader experience. I think many points made in favor of ag tractors are good and have merrit. If you think about it they are desigend for continuous pulling (or pushing). They have many gears so you can pick the optimum torque rise for your application, where as a loader is limited to 4 gears (forward and reverse) usually. What I am not sure about is how quickly they reverse or if they auto shift (like most newer loaders). It has been a long time since I used ag tractors but back then you had to select your gear before you started moving. A loader does have to load and carry, but it also is designed for working continuously, against heavy resistance (ie. grading and excavating). Many loaders have quick couplers for changing attachments quickly and easily but you can also stack snow with the pusher instead of switching to the loader bucket. The loader would be better for truck loading if you ever need to.

If you look at it there are advantages to both designs. I think that (so far) something has been over looked. Will this machine only be used for snow removal? If not what will the other applications be? I tend to agree with the ag tractor guys as to the siutability of their tractors to snow removal, however I am primarily an excavation contractor who does snow removal for winter income. I would only buy a loader because it's what I can use for the other 8 months of the year. From what I have read most profesionals on this site make their choices based on year round use of the machines not just snow removal. This may be the determinig factor in your decision.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

At this time it will only be used for snowplowing.


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## zimmatic (Oct 11, 2008)

Dave do you lease the tractors or own them?
That case IH with the duals you have to be doing some seriuos snow pushing to have duals. I would think the mfwd would be enough but it looks like the blade is heavy. I am looking at bidding out a 530 unit town home complex I figure 3 bobcats to get snow off drives, and 2 100hp tractors to clear all the private streets and 1--- 4 wheeler to do all the long sidewalks in the common area's. I was going to get a snow blower for the rear of one of the tractors. I cant push up huge piles and the blower would help pusing/blowing it out further. The last guys took to long I guess and I am not plowing with pickups. Maybe I could get by with just one tractor. Either way I will need a tractor


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