# Bid help request



## birddseedd

biding for the faa.

93632 sq foot on 3 parking lot type areas. some islands but well laid out and easy to navigate.

12066 sq foot of walkways. 1/4th might be able to be plowed with the truck. some are sitting areas outside doors, half or more is 4 to 6 foot wide.

a 51500 sq foot road (2060 x 25).

need help with plowing/blowing as well as for calcium cloride for ice melt (not salt) for the entire thing. (157198 total sq ft)

thanks for the help


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## Buswell Forest

Figure how long this whole thing is going to take..shoveling, de-icer, plowing, blowing, everything...including hired help time..now add 2 hours.

Take that number, and mulitply it X $135.oo- minimum. $150 is better.

Then add the cost of the de-icer, the help's hourly wage, and coffee money.

Trust me, no job is worth doing if you are not making money. And by making money, I mean putting $$$ in the savings account after EVERYTHING pertaining to the job is paid for. That's why I said add in coffee money.

If you don't win the bid, count it a BLESSING. You are out to make money, not scrape by.

Good luck!


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## birddseedd

Buswell Forest;1643289 said:


> Figure how long this whole thing is going to take..shoveling, de-icer, plowing, blowing, everything...including hired help time..now add 2 hours.
> 
> Take that number, and mulitply it X $135.oo- minimum. $150 is better.
> 
> Then add the cost of the de-icer, the help's hourly wage, and coffee money.
> 
> Trust me, no job is worth doing if you are not making money. And by making money, I mean putting $$$ in the savings account after EVERYTHING pertaining to the job is paid for. That's why I said add in coffee money.
> 
> If you don't win the bid, count it a BLESSING. *You are out to make money*, not scrape by.
> 
> Good luck!


Thats a tough lesson i'v been learning. craigs list has helped


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## birddseedd

How much calcium do you think this will need?


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## 2COR517

What are you running for equipment?


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## birddseedd

2COR517;1643307 said:


> What are you running for equipment?


A push behind spreader ill be buyin 

8' plow with box extensions.
straight blade.
snow blowers

thought about putting a blade on my mower but not sure how itl start in the winter.


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## dfd9

I think I'll subscribe.


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## 2COR517

Does the FAA require an equipment list to be submitted with the bid?


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## birddseedd

Not that i have been informed of. i'm actually doing it through another company. an over paid sub basicially. i spoke with him via email and he said his office has a formula to let them know what they shoudl expect for certain services. he's gonna be back to me. then i quote him what i charge.

being plowing ill want to be sure i bid what is well worth doing the job.


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## 2COR517

How long do you think it will take to spread salt on two acres plus nearly a mile of sidewalks and a lane mile of roadway with a push spreader?


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## peteo1

birddseedd;1643322 said:


> Not that i have been informed of. i'm actually doing it through another company. an over paid sub basicially. i spoke with him via email and he said his office has a formula to let them know what they shoudl expect for certain services. he's gonna be back to me. then i quote him what i charge.
> 
> being plowing ill want to be sure i bid what is well worth doing the job.


Well that makes it much clearer. Why isn't the contractor you sub for bidding this? Secondly, how the f*&% do you end up a sub on a contract you are bidding? If you get it, this guy gets the lions share of the profit?? Either I missed something or this is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.


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## birddseedd

not as good at estimating plowing as i am mowing. need a little more experience in it. but i would say an hour to do the spreadding. hour for the walks. 2 hours for the plowing.

tho. i tend to underestimate time frames things take


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## Stik208

2COR517;1643307 said:


> What are you running for equipment?





birddseedd;1643308 said:


> A push behind spreader ill be buyin
> 
> 8' plow with box extensions.
> straight blade.
> snow blowers
> 
> thought about putting a blade on my mower but not sure how itl start in the winter.


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## 2COR517

You must walk very fast


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## birddseedd

2COR517;1643333 said:


> You must walk very fast


ifin it makes me more money. i'm bad at estimating. what is a more likely time?


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## dfd9

Getting better all the time.


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## birddseedd

Stik208;1643332 said:


>


put some good work into that plow last year. this year i want to replace the one old cyl, double check the welds. need to make new mounts for my truck and have a pro weld them. and upgrade to electronic controls.

shoud do well this year. last year wasnt that bad.


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## Young Pup

birddseedd;1643308 said:


> A push behind spreader ill be buyin
> 
> 8' plow with box extensions.
> straight blade.
> snow blowers
> 
> thought about putting a blade on my mower but not sure how itl start in the winter.


You are going to push spread over 2 acres of lots and walks??


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## birddseedd

Young Pup;1643341 said:


> You are going to push spread over 2 acres of lots and walks??


The problem is they require calcium. doubte any contractor will have calcium in their truck spreadder.

as far as buying one of my own i'm just not sure i can afford it. And i woudl rather push than buy a crappy one for cheap that wont work and spend more work fixing it than using it like it was with my plow the first couple years.


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## Young Pup

birddseedd;1643345 said:


> The problem is they require calcium. doubte any contractor will have calcium in their truck spreadder.
> 
> as far as buying one of my own i'm just not sure i can afford it. And i woudl rather push than buy a crappy one for cheap that wont work and spend more work fixing it than using it like it was with my plow the first couple years.


I run calcium in my tailgate spreader all the time. No big deal. Look for a tailgate spreader on craigslists, ebay, somewhere. Even if it a snowex 575 that is better than walking all of that.


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## birddseedd

well. maybe? http://muskegon.craigslist.org/for/4015716509.html


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## Young Pup

birddseedd;1643347 said:


> well. maybe? http://muskegon.craigslist.org/for/4015716509.html


http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/sea...alt&zoomToPosting=&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=


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## Young Pup

birddseedd;1643347 said:


> well. maybe? http://muskegon.craigslist.org/for/4015716509.html


Yep, something like that. Just look at all the surrounding cities by you. There is plenty out there. Good luck.


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## birddseedd

Guess they are somewhat affordable. i could make up the cash with it.


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## birddseedd

so. how long do you guys think this would take?


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## 2COR517

A ten foot swath with a push behind means almost two miles of walking for the parking area. Another mile for the road down and back. And almost a mile for sidewalks. Call it three miles. That would be a solid hour in shorts and sneakers pushing an empty spreader. Add time to fill the spreader, add time for boots, heavy coat, gloves, clogs. And that's a lot of trips back to the truck for another 80 pounder


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## birddseedd

well. the spreaders are a little cheaper than i thought so ill look into getting one if i do get the bid. so i wont be walking the pavement, only the sidwalks.


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## goel

Front end fall out of that Dodge 1500 yet Birddseedd? Weld still holding the plow mount on without falling off again? 

Not a contract I would mess with without proper equipment, and back up equipment even if you were a sub.

Being the FAA, what are the tolerances? Is this going to be your only customer and are you going to live there?

Salter is a must, with the weather the last few years. If I plow 2x, I might salt 4-10 times depending on the amount of snow. Seems like larger amounts dumped, then warmer days with a refreeze at night - what does the drainage look like?


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## birddseedd

goel;1643364 said:


> Front end fall out of that Dodge 1500 yet Birddseedd? Not a contract I would mess with without proper equipment, and back up equipment even if you were a sub.
> 
> Being the FAA, what are the tolerances? Is this going to be your only customer and are you going to live there?
> 
> Salter is a must, with the weather the last few years. If I plow 2x, I might salt 4-10 times depending on the amount of snow. Seems like larger amounts dumped, then warmer days with a refreeze at night - what does the drainage look like?


Main parking lot is down hill. not sure about the back lot. the drive will all be pushed onto dirt. its all curbed so ill need to pile behind the curb.

I do have a sub for backup. atm i have 2 pumps. although i'm wanting to go electrical this year.

wont be my only account. I have a few lined up but not a full schedule yet.


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## birddseedd

so. half hour salting with the truck. half hour salting the walk ways?


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## birddseedd




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## Sawboy

:::::grabs a cup of coffee, leans back in recliner and sets the remote down::::::


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## 2COR517

Stik208;1643332 said:


>


Thanks for posting that Jason. The trash cans crack me up lol


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## Buswell Forest

Hate to say it, but I too think this is a bad idea all the way around. Your equipment is not up to the tasks.
Unless you can afford to step into a NEW 3/4 ton or 1 ton with a new 9'6" or bigger V plow, and a new sander / spreader, this will only end badly for you.

Still, no reason for a few of these members to be jerks with their replies. I think a few WANT you to fail for entertainment.


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## peteo1

Ok I am wondering are you planning on doing this by yourself or are you going to have help, as in employees? If by yourself, I hope you have a large chunk of time dedicated to this place. If you're using employees to help then you better have your insurances and payroll in order. 

**side note question**

Being this is for the FAA, anyone know if you're required to submit certified payroll for employees working on this site?


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## birddseedd

Buswell Forest;1643481 said:


> Hate to say it, but I too think this is a bad idea all the way around. Your equipment is not up to the tasks.
> Unless you can afford to step into a NEW 3/4 ton or 1 ton with a new 9'6" or bigger V plow, and a new sander / spreader, this will only end badly for you.
> 
> Still, no reason for a few of these members to be jerks with their replies. I think a few WANT you to fail for entertainment.


Valid concerns. I do have a backup, so if there are any issues I can call one of them. I did use them a couple times last year. did help.


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## birddseedd

peteo1;1643498 said:


> Ok I am wondering are you planning on doing this by yourself or are you going to have help, as in employees? If by yourself, I hope you have a large chunk of time dedicated to this place. If you're using employees to help then you better have your insurances and payroll in order.
> 
> **side note question**
> 
> Being this is for the FAA, anyone know if you're required to submit certified payroll for employees working on this site?


The contract did not mention a payroll for employees.

At the moment It is me and one sub. I would like to setup enough work for another sub but we will see how that turns out. I do need to talk with my carrier about what insurance i can get covered for him.


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## birddseedd

This is what the company i'm doing the work through reccomended (they get the contract, hire me to do the work. been doing some work for them this summer as well). I told them the figures look pretty good.

Per Push: $600
Ice: $600
Sidewalks $350

I do not actually have to salt the roadway. tho i might still. dont salt too often so itl be a nice perk for the customer that doesnt cost me much.


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## Leland Lawn

You could use an ATV for clearing the sidewalks, and deice at the same time with liquid calcium chloride from a sprayer on the back. That would really speed things up, and they aren't a huge upfront cost. Just a thought.


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## dfd9

birddseedd;1643517 said:


> This is what the company i'm doing the work through reccomended (they get the contract, hire me to do the work. been doing some work for them this summer as well). I told them the figures look pretty good.
> 
> Per Push: $600
> Ice: $600
> Sidewalks $350
> 
> I do not actually have to salt the roadway. tho i might still. dont salt too often so itl be a nice perk for the customer that doesnt cost me much.


$300 an acre? Or close to it.

No wonder our gov't is in the condition it is.

Apparently I need to look into FAA work, as those are very good prices.


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## 1olddogtwo

Its just less then 200 per acre doing rough math....still high.


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## dfd9

1olddogtwo;1643549 said:


> Its just less then 200 per acre doing rough math....still high.


Guess I should have done the math. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Oh well, why start with common sense now.

Unless it is really cut up, you are correct, $200 is really high, especially with 1/3 being roadway that should take 10 minutes, give or take.

The walk price is really high, based on 12,000 sq ft.

Chemical price is probably fairly close, never priced CC before.


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## birddseedd

I dunno. Its their contact. They would be charging them more. If they can get it ill do it


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## 1olddogtwo

birddseedd;1643553 said:


> I dunno. Its their contact. They would be charging them more. If they can get it ill do it


Don't forget the mark up, we do 10&10 (21%) or is that their price to them? If so, what's your payout, 79%?


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## birddseedd

I posted the pay they offered me.

Better than the mowing im doing. 40 bucks an hour or so bi weekly. Maybe more that iv gotten efficient. I did make money on the weed treatment i Contacted out myself


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## 1olddogtwo

OK...wow, that opens another can of works.

Is that a flat rate? Per push? 

Would I be fair to say the min mark up is 10&10 on top your payout?


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## birddseedd

1olddogtwo;1643557 said:


> OK...wow, that opens another can of works.
> 
> Is that a flat rate? Per push?
> 
> Would I be fair to say the min mark up is 10&10 on top your payout?


Another can of worms?

I have no idea what they are charging.


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## 1olddogtwo

so is that pay out whether it's one inch 6 or 12 inches


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## birddseedd

lddogtw;1643559]so is that pay out whether it's one inch 6 or 12 inches[/QUOTE]

That is correct


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## 2COR517

Per push or per storm? Do they tell you when to push on a big storm?


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## birddseedd

it per pushe. I do have a time frame that I have to be done by 545.so that part is easy. if we get the bed I do however need to find out what they want for daytime st or..storms


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## 1olddogtwo

Better hope for 30 inch events! The big ones will kill ya!


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## birddseedd

You mean 3.0?


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## 1olddogtwo

birddseedd;1643619 said:


> You mean 3.0?


30 one inch events...oh wait, what's the trigger?


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## birddseedd

2 Inches. But at 600 for a job That will take a few hours max heavy snow will be ok.


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## Wayne Volz

*maybe this will help*



birddseedd;1643345 said:


> The problem is they require calcium. doubte any contractor will have calcium in their truck spreadder.
> 
> as far as buying one of my own i'm just not sure i can afford it. And i woudl rather push than buy a crappy one for cheap that wont work and spend more work fixing it than using it like it was with my plow the first couple years.


You can't afford not to get at least a tailgate spreader for this job. Check out a SnowEX 1075 or even a SnowEx 575. You can get a flow control gate that will give you the opportunity to control the material flow rate for your smaller material such as calcium chloride.

Your average rate for calcium chloride for estimating purposes will be about 6 - 8 pounds per 1,000 square feet. We find that application rate works very well generally. Of course storm conditions will dictate potential changes in the application rate.

Last but not least, we offer a snow & ice management bidding package that will help you with this and future bids as far as production time, application rates, and material choices. Check out our web site or our sponsor link on the side bar.

Good luck.


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## Buswell Forest

At those prices, if you land the job, I advise you to go buy an F350XL with an expanding blade, maybe the big Boss expander. I like my 9'6" V Fisher, but your stuff sounds like the Expander is better. You need to be reliable, and comfortable. With a good co-signer, you can get a leftover @ 0% come November.
EDIT:
I looked for a Boss expander, can't see one. But Blizzard has an 8'6" to 11' expander, that is 9'8" or so in scoop. They say that the 11' is for 14K GVW, but my Fisher is just over 1000 pounds, and my 10K GVW F250 carries it just fine.


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## birddseedd

I'm driving a half ton so even with a suspension upgrades my choices for plows are still pretty limited. I do use box extensions which saves me 40 percent over a basic straight blade.


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## Buswell Forest

Half tons are for hauling groceries and fat girls. Get thee to a Ford dealer. If for nothing more than the bumper to bumper warranty.


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## peteo1

Buswell Forest;1644062 said:


> Half tons are for hauling groceries and fat girls. Get thee to a Ford dealer. If for nothing more than the bumper to bumper warranty.


Hahahaha!! Comments like this are the very reason we need a "like" button


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## birddseedd

peteo1;1644067 said:


> Hahahaha!! Comments like this are the very reason we need a "like" button


Yea. It was pretty funny. However i owe to much on this truck to trade it in.

Also. No dang way I'm getting a ford made in Mexico.


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## 1olddogtwo

Ignorance is bliss.....


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## birddseedd

1olddogtwo;1644135 said:


> Ignorance is bliss.....


That is where i read they were made. Did i read wrong?


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## 1olddogtwo

I think the F-650 amd F-750 are. The F 550 and down are made in KY.


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## birddseedd

ah. well. when it comes time for a new vehicle ill have to do some more reading. tho i wont be getting less than a 1 ton ever again.

unless its only intended to carry groceries and my wife


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## BC Handyman

yup my 2011 f250 made in KY, so are all 350's & 450's


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## Dogplow Dodge

birddseedd;1644132 said:


> Also. No dang way I'm getting a ford made in Mexico.


Well, the truck you're driving was made (assembled) there, no ? Mine was

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_are_dodge_ram_trucks_made

If you buy a ford, it depends on the particular series of truck as to where it's made...

http://www.ask.com/question/where-are-ford-trucks-made

Check your door jamb.. and on the new truck you buy.


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## 1olddogtwo

BC Handyman;1644192 said:


> yup my 2011 f250 made in KY, so are all 350's & 450's


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_Truck_Assembly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Super_Duty

.


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## birddseedd

yea. ill have some searching to do next time i get a truck. might be a while tho


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## 2COR517

Buswell Forest;1644036 said:


> At those prices, if you land the job, I advise you to go buy an F350XL with an expanding blade, maybe the big Boss expander. I like my 9'6" V Fisher, but your stuff sounds like the Expander is better. You need to be reliable, and comfortable. With a good co-signer, you can get a leftover @ 0% come November.
> EDIT:
> I looked for a Boss expander, can't see one. But Blizzard has an 8'6" to 11' expander, that is 9'8" or so in scoop. They say that the 11' is for 14K GVW, but my Fisher is just over 1000 pounds, and my 10K GVW F250 carries it just fine.


Is the trim level important for plowing? Or truck brand?


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## birddseedd

what is trim level


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## 1olddogtwo

Ultimately, trim is a safety issue; it’s certainly possible to swamp or overturn a plow simply because it’s badly trimmed. Fortunately, common sense and the high standards of today’s plowing industry make such extremes unlikely. 

However, the more open the snow you’re plowing on the more important it is, it’s very important indeed to understand trim and how to adjust it to suit different conditions. 

The difference between a well trimmed plow and one which isn’t is quite dramatic – in stark contrast to how easy it is to adjust an outboard or sterndrive powered plow from one to the other at the literal touch of a switch. But before getting into the effects of the dreaded trim button, it’s necessary to understand trim – and that begins at the same place in any truck – weight distribution.


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## birddseedd

1olddogtwo;1644376 said:


> Ultimately, trim is a safety issue; it's certainly possible to swamp or overturn a plow simply because it's badly trimmed. Fortunately, common sense and the high standards of today's plowing industry make such extremes unlikely.
> 
> However, the more open the snow you're plowing on the more important it is, it's very important indeed to understand trim and how to adjust it to suit different conditions.
> 
> The difference between a well trimmed plow and one which isn't is quite dramatic - in stark contrast to how easy it is to adjust an outboard or sterndrive powered plow from one to the other at the literal touch of a switch. But before getting into the effects of the dreaded trim button, it's necessary to understand trim - and that begins at the same place in any truck - weight distribution.


BLINKS......

i have an outboard. its a sea king with a Mercury. the transom is broke and needs repair.


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## 2COR517

Trim and weight distribution is crucial in aircraft also. Too mulch nose up trim in an aft loaded craft could result in a low altitude stall.

Need to start with a good weight and balance.


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## birddseedd

since google doesnt come up with anything. i'm going to assume this is at my expense. apparently you've nothing better to do. good luck with that.


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## peteo1

Too much nose up trim will cost you in the long run. Queue Grandview....


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## dfd9

Would there be different trim levels for the mysterious expanding Boss plow?


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## B&B

dfd9;1644434 said:


> Would there be different trim levels for the mysterious expanding Boss plow?


You don't know? The uplevel model includes a crop circle attachment. Oh, and down pressure too.


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## JD Dave

I always wondered where crop circles came from.


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## Mike_PS

well, I'm pretty sure this one has run its course so I'm closing it out

thanks :waving:


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