# salt salt salt



## SFCarmyvet

South bend, Indiana area. I have tailgate spreaders and I use bag salt. I know we do not talk numbers on here often but I have to ask. I am charging "X" amount per pound for my bag salt. I lost a bid on a small commercial acre restaurant lot because of the salt. I have a friend that works there and they seen the bid that was accepted. The accepted bid was charging "X" amount per pound. I pay "X" amount per pound myself for my bag salt. I know the other bidder was using bag salt because they had it stated on their bid.

Second question: on small commercial seasonal contracts, include salt or keep it separate. I think my market prefers it all included and does not like when I talk about separating the salt. However, I do not want to lose my ass on salt. So what I have been doing and I hope I don't screw myself is multiplying my event number by 1.5 for the salt seasonal figure. How do you guys do it? I know these topics have been talked about but it was years ago that I found.


----------



## FredG

I can't recall in my area ever giving a price on the actual material. Most just want your price to spread with material. Contractors salt prices are different based on amount your buying or how you mobilize it from the mine, port etc. The overall price for the service is what counts. Maybe somebody that uses bags will be able to help you out more. I would assume with bags the more pallets you take the cheaper the salt.


----------



## SFCarmyvet

I didn't put the price per pound on the estimate myself. I just did the math from their estimate. They wrote 10 bags at 8.80 a bag and 45 to drop it. When I did the math that came out to 26 cents a pound. They won the per push bid because I eastimated my per application using the same amount of weight but at 48 cents. Mine was easy to read one application rate but it was just more expensive than his. I also gave them a seasonal option. They had no problem with my snow push rates. They told me my salt was outrageous on the seasonal option because I multiplied the event number I use by 1.5 for the snow applications because I would be dropping salt more than I'm plowing it because we get a lot of under 1 inch dust covers. 

I'm just gonna say next because I have won bids with the way I calculate them and been pretty damn close on the ones I have lost that I was able to get the information after the fact. I gotta look into a different salt means that's more profitable next season. Maybe start using bulk salt. I buy my salt by the pallet now and they don't make it cheaper when I buy multiple pallets.


----------



## FredG

Must be doing well I seen you bought another truck. This guy that out bid you don't seem to be marking up his material at $8.80 per bag.


----------



## SFCarmyvet

FredG said:


> Must be doing well I seen you bought another truck. This guy that out bid you don't seem to be marking up his material at $8.80 per bag.


Lol well I'm crazy man. Did okay last year. Got a guy around here who took me under his wing and he really takes care of me. I owe my first year success to him lol and probably this year coming too lol.


----------



## FredG

SFCarmyvet said:


> Lol well I'm crazy man. Did okay last year. Got a guy around here who took me under his wing and he really takes care of me. I owe my first year success to him lol and probably this year coming too lol.


Buying a new truck is not crazy, If your under a guys wing and he keeps two trucks busy you got it made. lowred:. Maybe get a v box for the back of a truck. Spreading is profitable.


----------



## JustJeff

I can't help you on your pricing of bagged salt, but we're both in about the same position. I'll be adding a second truck on Monday. Both trucks have/will have V boxes. It seems like you're going through growing pains right now, same as me. I don't see how continuing to use bagged salt will help you or make you more competitive. My salt is provided, I just get paid to spread it. However, I do have the option of getting my own salt and spreading it, probably for a larger profit. I just haven't done that yet because I haven't done the math to see if it would be more beneficial to me. I will though. If getting bulk salt for your trucks is an option (like I have a company close to my route that will supply bulk salt to me that is open 24/7 during a storm), I suggest you look into dumping the tailgate spreaders and getting V boxes. I think it will help you price-wise as well as time-wise, as you wouldn't have to keep getting out to fill the spreader every five minutes. I think it would make you more competitive in your bids, and increase your profit margins of existing customers. Good luck!


----------



## SFCarmyvet

FredG said:


> Buying a new truck is not crazy, If your under a guys wing and he keeps two trucks busy you got it made. lowred:. Maybe get a v box for the back of a truck. Spreading is profitable.


I'm considering a v box. Gotta see how much work I have this winter and where I would store the bulk salt. He is a good guy but he is in business too so I don't want to count on him because I know he has to take care of his company first. I do not shy away from spreading salt with my tailgate spreader, it's just a lot of slinging bags. For this season I am gonna throw some vibrators on the tailgate spreaders and run bulk I think. Then get the v box for next season.

How is business for you?


----------



## SFCarmyvet

JustJeff said:


> I can't help you on your pricing of bagged salt, but we're both in about the same position. I'll be adding a second truck on Monday. Both trucks have/will have V boxes. It seems like you're going through growing pains right now, same as me. I don't see how continuing to use bagged salt will help you or make you more competitive. My salt is provided, I just get paid to spread it. However, I do have the option of getting my own salt and spreading it, probably for a larger profit. I just haven't done that yet because I haven't done the math to see if it would be more beneficial to me. I will though. If getting bulk salt for your trucks is an option (like I have a company close to my route that will supply bulk salt to me that is open 24/7 during a storm), I suggest you look into dumping the tailgate spreaders and getting V boxes. I think it will help you price-wise as well as time-wise, as you wouldn't have to keep getting out to fill the spreader every five minutes. I think it would make you more competitive in your bids, and increase your profit margins of existing customers. Good luck!


I agree, definitely too much work for far less profit with a tailgate spreader. That will definitely allow me to come in stronger on bids. Thanks, good luck to you too.


----------



## FredG

SFCarmyvet said:


> I'm considering a v box. Gotta see how much work I have this winter and where I would store the bulk salt. He is a good guy but he is in business too so I don't want to count on him because I know he has to take care of his company first. I do not shy away from spreading salt with my tailgate spreader, it's just a lot of slinging bags. For this season I am gonna throw some vibrators on the tailgate spreaders and run bulk I think. Then get the v box for next season.
> 
> How is business for you?


Had a great summer in the dirt excavating etc. We will see what winter brings. Take your time this will only be your second year at it. Give it a few more years you will be happy, Takes time to get your name out there.


----------



## SFCarmyvet

FredG said:


> Had a great summer in the dirt excavating etc. We will see what winter brings. Take your time this will only be your second year at it. Give it a few more years you will be happy, Takes time to get your name out there.


Lol yeah I went in 100 miles an hour. Hoping for a better winter than last year.


----------



## SFCarmyvet

JustJeff said:


> I can't help you on your pricing of bagged salt, but we're both in about the same position. I'll be adding a second truck on Monday. Both trucks have/will have V boxes. It seems like you're going through growing pains right now, same as me. I don't see how continuing to use bagged salt will help you or make you more competitive. My salt is provided, I just get paid to spread it. However, I do have the option of getting my own salt and spreading it, probably for a larger profit. I just haven't done that yet because I haven't done the math to see if it would be more beneficial to me. I will though. If getting bulk salt for your trucks is an option (like I have a company close to my route that will supply bulk salt to me that is open 24/7 during a storm), I suggest you look into dumping the tailgate spreaders and getting V boxes. I think it will help you price-wise as well as time-wise, as you wouldn't have to keep getting out to fill the spreader every five minutes. I think it would make you more competitive in your bids, and increase your profit margins of existing customers. Good luck!


How do you get your box spreader on and off every year and where do you store it? That's probably the biggest reason I don't have one yet. Don't you damn near need a crane to take it off and put it on.


----------



## JustJeff

No, it's not bad at all. I attach it to my little Kubota and pull it out onto these jigs that I built. Throw the cover over them and store them all summer like that off to the side in my driveway. Even without the tractor, two people can pull them out pretty easily. They slide right out.


----------



## SFCarmyvet

JustJeff said:


> No, it's not bad at all. I attach it to my little Kubota and pull it out onto these jigs that I built. Throw the cover over them and store them all summer like that off to the side in my driveway. Even without the tractor, two people can pull them out pretty easily. They slide right out.
> 
> View attachment 173552


That don't look too bad at all. Thanks for the pic


----------



## JMHConstruction

I've heard of guys using engine hoists to pull them out. That's my plan. Plan B is a little more inventive, but I have an idea if the hoist doesn't work.


----------



## FredG

JMHConstruction said:


> I've heard of guys using engine hoists to pull them out. That's my plan. Plan B is a little more inventive, but I have an idea if the hoist doesn't work.


I never loaded that way but sounds good to me.


----------



## leigh

If your using bags and bidding against guys that use bulk you'll lose every bid.If you include salt into plow price limit it to salt at time of plowing,anything more is an extra charge. I could salt all your lots at your salt only price and get rich lol. I would salt lot in 10 minutes with 25$ of bulk salt.Its a challenge find a profitable niche.


----------



## JustJeff

JMHConstruction said:


> I've heard of guys using engine hoists to pull them out. That's my plan. Plan B is a little more inventive, but I have an idea if the hoist doesn't work.


An engine hoist really isn't needed, believe me. Even one person can usually slide one out.


----------



## JMHConstruction

JustJeff said:


> An engine hoist really isn't needed, believe me. Even one person can usually slide one out.


You think even with the stainless?


----------



## JustJeff

That I don't know. What is the weight of it? My VBX only weighs about 600 lbs. and it comes out easily. I know a buddy of mine, @Sawboy mounts his on two 4 X 4's running the length of his bed (there are slots in the VBX's so you can use a forklift to put them in and out), so even if there's some salt laying around back there it still slides out really easily. It also makes it easier to power wash excess salt out of the bed during the season.


----------



## JMHConstruction

JustJeff said:


> That I don't know. What is the weight of it? My VBX only weighs about 600 lbs. and it comes out easily. I know a buddy of mine, @Sawboy mounts his on two 4 X 4's running the length of his bed (there are slots in the VBX's so you can use a forklift to put them in and out), so even if there's some salt laying around back there it still slides out really easily. It also makes it easier to power wash excess salt out of the bed during the season.


Looks like it weighs 700 lbs. I may just build a cart like yours and use a come along to pull it out if I can't move it. As hit and miss as our storms are I'll probably remove it after most storms, so I want something fairly easy.


----------



## JustJeff

Ya, 700 lbs. is definitely doable. Good idea with the cum along. I doubt you'd even need it, but if you did it would be simple enough to use.


----------



## SFCarmyvet

leigh said:


> If your using bags and bidding against guys that use bulk you'll lose every bid.If you include salt into plow price limit it to salt at time of plowing,anything more is an extra charge. I could salt all your lots at your salt only price and get rich lol. I would salt lot in 10 minutes with 25$ of bulk salt.Its a challenge find a profitable niche.


Yeah gonna start using bulk salt or buying bags by the semi so I can charge less and and have


JustJeff said:


> Ya, 700 lbs. is definitely doable. Good idea with the cum along. I doubt you'd even need it, but if you did it would be simple enough to use.


where do you store yours


----------



## JMHConstruction

By the way vet, glad you're doing well in the business Thumbs Up


----------



## John_DeereGreen

If you're in an area where bulk salt is prevalent, bagged salt will price you out of the market on anything but the smallest lots. For what it's worth, we charge significantly less than both of the numbers you posted per pound.


----------



## JustJeff

I keep mine in my driveway right in front of my shop. If I get a chance to clear out some stuff there this year they will go inside the shop, but I have no qualms about just throwing the cover over them and leaving them in the driveway.


----------



## SFCarmyvet

JMHConstruction said:


> By the way vet, glad you're doing well in the business Thumbs Up


Thanks!


----------



## Freshwater

I started with a salt dogg tgs06 tailgate spreader with a factory vibrator, held 800#. The loader operator at my salt supplier showed me how to back up to the salt pile different than the guys with vboxes. He loaded me up and away I went. By the middle of Jan I was filling up 3 times a night. Did that for a few years, upgraded to a snowex 3000, very small vbox, held 1500#. Added boards last year and can get about 2200# in it, still filling 3 times a night. Just picked up a salt dogg 2000, added boards and should get 6k or more in it. If I get to the point where I'm filling that 3 times a night, I'll be very happy. Save your money on a vibrator, sell the tailgate and put that money towards a vbox.


----------



## 98Chevy2500

48 cents a pound would be awesome, divide that by 3 around here for bulk.


----------



## Whiffyspark

Those salt dogs are light. I just slide them out and stand them on the end. Then put it down and slide it around d


----------



## R75419

98Chevy2500 said:


> 48 cents a pound would be awesome, divide that by 3 around here for bulk.


I wish we could get $.16/lb. Guys around here would put lift kits and all kinds of fancy crap on their IH 4300 salt trucks with prices like that.


----------



## JustJeff

No doubt. At .48 a lb. That's almost a thousand bucks per ton spread. I don't know anybody getting that kind of money. But if you are, more power to you.


----------



## SFCarmyvet

I pay 10 cents a pound I gotta make money on it, I guess I'll hold on to my accounts that pay 48 lol


----------



## JustJeff

And hope that nobody else bids them.


----------



## 98Chevy2500

SFCarmyvet said:


> I pay 10 cents a pound I gotta make money on it, I guess I'll hold on to my accounts that pay 48 lol


Well, you certainly aren't a lowballer!


----------



## SFCarmyvet

Lmao my goal entering this business was to never be a low baller. I'd rather have high bids than ruin the market and do work for nothing. 


98Chevy2500 said:


> Well, you certainly aren't a lowballer!


----------



## 98Chevy2500

SFCarmyvet said:


> Lmao my goal entering this business was to never be a low baller. I'd rather have high bids than ruin the market and do work for nothing.


Keep it up and maybe the snow business can be profitable again.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

98Chevy2500 said:


> Keep it up and maybe the snow business can be profitable again.


On the second Tuesday of never.

It's a race to the bottom....


----------



## 98Chevy2500

John_DeereGreen said:


> On the second Tuesday of never.
> 
> It's a race to the bottom....


And that is why I parked all the plows last year, everybody started working for free again. Never seen so many pickups with plows on them, oh well, hope they enjoyed making two salt runs for the season and watching there shiny new plows get covered in dust. It is just as easy to go broke sitting at home as it is to work for free.

BTW....a bit late but congrats on the kid!


----------



## John_DeereGreen

98Chevy2500 said:


> And that is why I parked all the plows last year, everybody started working for free again. Never seen so many pickups with plows on them, oh well, hope they enjoyed making two salt runs for the season and watching there shiny new plows get covered in dust. It is just as easy to go broke sitting at home as it is to work for free.
> 
> BTW....a bit late but congrats on the kid!


Thanks!!


----------



## JustJeff

Shoot, as fast as kids are nowadays, she's probably already playing on an Ipad and programming the remote for the t.v.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

JustJeff said:


> Shoot, as fast as kids are nowadays, she's probably already playing on an Ipad and programming the remote for the t.v.


I keep telling my wife she'll be running a machine next winter...


----------



## Defcon 5

John_DeereGreen said:


> I keep telling my wife she'll be running a machine next winter...


Sure....We all know who wears the pants in that family....Those two women


----------



## Ajlawn1

SFCarmyvet said:


> I pay 10 cents a pound I gotta make money on it, I guess I'll hold on to my accounts that pay 48 lol


Soooooo where are these accounts exactly at anyway.... Not interested just was curious where they might be exactly located, or if you have the address that would be helpful too.....


----------



## JMHConstruction

Ajlawn1 said:


> Soooooo where are these accounts exactly at anyway.... Not interested just was curious where they might be exactly located, or if you have the address that would be helpful too.....


:laugh:


----------



## SFCarmyvet

Lol just noticed your response it's Just a few of the smaller commercial accounts I got last year on my own that trickled in right when the season started. I didn't even know it was a high amount. They paid it but did not require that much salt anyway. I guess I got salt problems lol. I don't like the price of bagged salt and have no damn room for a V bed and bulk.



Ajlawn1 said:


> Soooooo where are these accounts exactly at anyway.... Not interested just was curious where they might be exactly located, or if you have the address that would be helpful too.....


----------



## MSsnowplowing

Chiming in on sanders

Western tornado electric sander is the way to go.
Takes just me and my son to get it in and out of the truck by hand.
It stores upright so you don't lose space.
And for spreading, being about to control the speed of the belt and the spinner seperate means being able to put down product in a more controlled manner and not just blowing it out the back so you can do more areas.

The con is it is more expensive to buy but it pays for itself.

One tip, when you clean it, leave your motor running while running it.
My first year with it, I went to the car wash, had the truck off and ran it to clean it. 
Needless to say I killed my battery pretty quick and needed a jump, LOL live and learn.


----------



## JustJeff

Pretty much any poly/electric spreader you buy now have separate controls for feed and spinner speed. They'll also all store on end, and they all weigh about the same, so it's the same degree of easiness/difficulty getting them in and out.

OP, where we live, you don't have to have the ability to store bulk to spread it. There are a few places where you can go fill your V box and just pay them for it each time you fill it up. They're open 24/7 when it's snowing. Way cheaper than bulk.


----------



## SFCarmyvet

JustJeff said:


> Pretty much any poly/electric spreader you buy now have separate controls for feed and spinner speed. They'll also all store on end, and they all weigh about the same, so it's the same degree of easiness/difficulty getting them in and out.
> 
> OP, where we live, you don't have to have the ability to store bulk to spread it. There are a few places where you can go fill your V box and just pay them for it each time you fill it up. They're open 24/7 when it's snowing. Way cheaper than bulk.


I just thought that would cost more than if I bought it by the ton and stored it myself.


----------



## SFCarmyvet

MSsnowplowing said:


> Chiming in on sanders
> 
> Western tornado electric sander is the way to go.
> Takes just me and my son to get it in and out of the truck by hand.
> It stores upright so you don't lose space.
> And for spreading, being about to control the speed of the belt and the spinner seperate means being able to put down product in a more controlled manner and not just blowing it out the back so you can do more areas.
> 
> The con is it is more expensive to buy but it pays for itself.
> 
> One tip, when you clean it, leave your motor running while running it.
> My first year with it, I went to the car wash, had the truck off and ran it to clean it.
> Needless to say I killed my battery pretty quick and needed a jump, LOL live and learn.


Think they are okay to buy used?


----------



## MSsnowplowing

SFCarmyvet said:


> Think they are okay to buy used?


For the right price, I would buy a few of them.

Just make sure the wiring is there and the controller.

Fun fact, Fisher sanders the rear can be used on a western and vice versa.


----------



## MSsnowplowing

SFCarmyvet said:


> I just thought that would cost more than if I bought it by the ton and stored it myself.


If you have a place open 24 hours and can load up your sander anytime that's even better, storing can be a pain.

If I had a place like that around me, I would never buy it in bulk.
I pay the same whether I get the sander filled or get it in bulk.
around $60 for salt/sand
$110 for salt
$200 for magic


----------



## JustJeff

MSsnowplowing said:


> For the right price, I would buy a few of them.
> 
> Just make sure the wiring is there and the controller.
> 
> Fun fact, Fisher sanders the rear can be used on a western and vice versa.


That's because they're both D.D. products. I believe the Blizzard Ice Chaser will work on either of those two as well. Same spreader.


----------



## JMHConstruction

The only thing real different that I've noticed on the tornado/polycaster/whatever is they have a plastic lid.


----------



## JustJeff

The VBX has one that's optional too if you want to get it.


----------



## JMHConstruction

JustJeff said:


> The VBX has one that's optional too if you want to get it.


Yeah I should have said coming stock


----------



## MSsnowplowing

JMHConstruction said:


> The only thing real different that I've noticed on the tornado/polycaster/whatever is they have a plastic lid.


They are well made and it keeps your product nice and dry.
you can also remove them quite easy.
Going on 5 years now with my Tornado and I wouldn't have anything else.


----------

