# Small / simple start up, tips and tricks



## JimsLocalPlow (Nov 28, 2017)

Hi guys, my name is Jim and I am the owner of a successful lawn care company in the Pittsburgh area. My beginnings were humble as I started with nothing. Without the use of debt / loans I created a fairly decent sized landscape company. Along the way we were asked on many occasions if we offer snow removal. Due to my limited capital I couldn't invest in what I considered "maybe work".

That was some time ago, and today things are not as simple as they once were. I have employee's and the more I grow on the lawncare side of the business the harder it is to keep workers year round. Most enjoy working for me but simply move on after a 3 month lay off. My interest is in keeping these workers working throughout the winter. We offer fall / spring cleanups but evening in doing so - there is 3 months a year where there is simply no work. Our winters have been mild (less than 3 major storms bringing 3"+ of snow) and this has me scared more so today than ever before.

I'm familiar in bidding commercial work, but not familiar with the snow aspect of it. We already have many commercial accounts that separate the mowing contract with the snow contract. My interest is not in gaining these contracts, I realize I am not large enough to handle them. My thoughts are getting into snow the same way I got into lawns. Small and solo, focusing mostly on residential contracts mostly driveways / sidewalks. Nothing too big for me as I am only investing $5K into the business on the first year. My goal is to build the business big enough to keep a handful of good employee's around year round the following year. I'm very aware that you are at the mercy of the weather and very aware how sensitive residential accounts are in comparison to commercial. 

My question is any tips / tricks you may offer. Even if you consider it "common sense" maybe a few suggestions that you learned over the years. I'm only starting with a 4x4, snowblower, backpack blower, and a small list of potential customers. As of today I have no customers so any help is appreciated. 

Thanks in advance - and sorry for the long post!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Around here, and I assume most places, companies can't find or keep good sidewalks crews. After I decided I was tired of driving all over creation doing 1 driveway here and there I got on as a subcontractor to a larger company doing commercial sidewalks. 

Sidewalks like this would be a great way to keep you guys busy year round, and minimal investment. I started with my blower I was using for residential, some cheap walmart shovels, and a cheaper walk behind spreader.

I was 19 and tight on cash, but with less than $5k you could easily get better equipment that you're not replacing multiple times a season. I would get 2-3 Toro or Honda single stage blowers (more depending on number of employees), get as many Snowplow brand shovels as you have employees plus a couple extra, and a good name brand walk behind ice melt spreader (the ones for ice melt work better than the ones for fertilizer).

Depending on the size of jobs, I liked having 3-4 guys per crew. If they're small, 2 guys works find, and if large, more is always better. With commercial work, it's go, go, go. If your crew/s can hustle, everyone makes good money.

If you decide to go that route let me know, and I can answer any other questions you have.


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## JimsLocalPlow (Nov 28, 2017)

JMHConstruction said:


> Around here, and I assume most places, companies can't find or keep good sidewalks crews. After I decided I was tired of driving all over creation doing 1 driveway here and there I got on as a subcontractor to a larger company doing commercial sidewalks.
> 
> Sidewalks like this would be a great way to keep you guys busy year round, and minimal investment. I started with my blower I was using for residential, some cheap walmart shovels, and a cheaper walk behind spreader.
> 
> ...


This is sound advice, and to be honest I never thought of this as a possibility. I'd definitely consider doing this! To be honest I wouldn't even know who to call to talk about subbing out sidewalk crews.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

You can start with CL, there's usually a few ads looking for help. If you know of any larger contractors in the area, they're usually looking. You can give them a call and ask. You could even ask around on here. I'm sure someone in the Pittsburgh area needs a sidewalk crew.

If you want, I've seen guys put plows on the front of their zero turn mowers. Seemed to work well, although I'm not sure how good it was on them.


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## Avalanche 2500 (Dec 31, 2015)

Nice posts guys ^ Dang !! now have to deal w/ Jim, Steelers fan ?/JMH, Chiefs fan we meet 2 wks. OAK. in KC. ! 
good luck guys. lowblue:


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Avalanche 2500 said:


> Nice posts guys ^ Dang !! now have to deal w/ Jim, Steelers fan ?/JMH, Chiefs fan we meet 2 wks. OAK. in KC. !
> good luck guys. lowblue:


Oh I'm sure the chiefs will just bend over for you guys...
They're not looking too great here lately


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## Brettny (Jul 12, 2017)

For such small snow amounts and events i wouldnt do it.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JimsLocalPlow said:


> Our winters have been mild (less than 3 major storms bringing 3"+ of snow) and this has me scared more so today than ever before.


What site are you basing this off of?


Brettny said:


> For such small snow amounts and events i wouldnt do it.


NWS showed 30 year average of 41.4" of snow.....


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## JimsLocalPlow (Nov 28, 2017)

Year before last it was in the 70's the week of Chritsmas, last year it was in the 60's, This year it's December 1st and we have yet to see snow. Currently (12/1/17) the temps are in the 60's throughout the day.

Past couple of years we see snow Jan , Feb, and March. But maybe we are long overdue for a big one!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JimsLocalPlow said:


> Year before last it was in the 70's the week of Chritsmas, last year it was in the 60's, This year it's December 1st and we have yet to see snow. Currently (12/1/17) the temps are in the 60's throughout the day.
> 
> Past couple of years we see snow Jan , Feb, and March. But maybe we are long overdue for a big one!


We have a pretty low average of 20ish" a year, but the last 2 have been the worst I've ever seen (each year had less than 5"). Snow removal is all about averages. Even though our last 2 SUCKED, about 5-6 years or so ago we had back to back years with almost double our average.

It's still early in the season, lots of time to snow.


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## Brettny (Jul 12, 2017)

JimsLocalPlow said:


> Year before last it was in the 70's the week of Chritsmas, last year it was in the 60's, This year it's December 1st and we have yet to see snow. Currently (12/1/17) the temps are in the 60's throughout the day.
> 
> Past couple of years we see snow Jan , Feb, and March. But maybe we are long overdue for a big one!


I wouldnt gamble your business on 60s in december. The big storm may be big but theres only so many hours in a day and customers are only willing to wait so long. I would take four 6in storms over a 2ft any day.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Brettny said:


> I wouldnt gamble your business on 60s in december. The big storm may be big but theres only so many hours in a day and customers are only willing to wait so long. I would take four 6in storms over a 2ft any day.


Most of the US right now has above average temps...
It's the first day of December, and most of us haven't seen snow yet. I guess we should all just give up on snow removal.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

OP, I just googled your 15 day forecast


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

JMHConstruction said:


> OP, I just googled your 15 day forecast
> View attachment 175080


Apparently he's never looked at a weather app lol.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

JimsLocalPlow said:


> Year before last it was in the 70's the week of Chritsmas, last year it was in the 60's, This year it's December 1st and we have yet to see snow. Currently (12/1/17) the temps are in the 60's throughout the day.
> 
> Past couple of years we see snow Jan , Feb, and March. But maybe we are long overdue for a big one!


The last two years worth of weather is irrelevant. My advice is, if you are not basing decisions on NWS data and averages but instead what it did last year, you should stay out of the game.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

ktfbgb said:


> Apparently he's never looked at a weather app lol.


Wish mine looked the same. Might get some rain Monday afternoon that COULD freeze at night, but unlikely. Just enough chance to load the spreader, and then unload it after nothing happens...


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

JMHConstruction said:


> Wish mine looked the same. Might get some rain Monday afternoon that COULD freeze at night, but unlikely. Just enough chance to load the spreader, and then unload it after nothing happens...


That sucks. It'll be good practice. We still haven't gotten our first storm yet. The foot of snow we were supposed to get this weekend is gone.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JMHConstruction said:


> Wish mine looked the same. Might get some rain Monday afternoon that COULD freeze at night, but unlikely. Just enough chance to load the spreader, and then unload it after nothing happens...





ktfbgb said:


> That sucks. It'll be good practice. We still haven't gotten our first storm yet. The foot of snow we were supposed to get this weekend is gone.


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## JimsLocalPlow (Nov 28, 2017)

Pittsburgh is a very large city with several weather patterns (mountain area's vs valley area's). I live just outside that city. No snow in the 7 day forecast, but 30% chance of snow in the 10 day. I call that a 0% chance of snow


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

It's been warm up here in Central New York as well. I did plow once already this year. We get hammered by lake effect snow. No snow for weeks then all the sudden 6, 12, 18, 20+ inches you never know.

I started out doing a few driveways and steadily increased yearly. I don't go looking for work. It's all been word of mouth through my customer to other people who become customers.

I only plow, mostly driveways. I don't do sidewalks or salt. Push it and stack it with the truck. 

I had a really good truck that I bought new so I knew it was in good shape. Bought a 7.5' plow for it. Used it a few years then realized I needed a heavy duty truck so I bought a 3/4 ton and a v-plow. My other truck is my backup truck.

Good luck, NYH1.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Just curious. Have you received much snow?


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## JimsLocalPlow (Nov 28, 2017)

We had 2 events of 3" + so far .Been brutally cold (seems temps of -10) but very little snow.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JimsLocalPlow said:


> We had 2 events of 3" + so far .Been brutally cold (seems temps of -10) but very little snow.


Same here. Did you end up doing snow removal this year?


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## JimsLocalPlow (Nov 28, 2017)

JMHConstruction said:


> Same here. Did you end up doing snow removal this year?


No. I spoke with a local company about sidewalk crew work but couldn't come to terms with them on pricing. At least I know more than I started with and gives me a year to put something together.

I already have backpack blowers and a snowblower, but need a plow rig. Thinking about picking something up in the spring.


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