# Dump truck OR plain 5 ton truck with v-box for salting?



## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

Maybe this should be under the ice control title, but this is certainly an element of commercial plowing. As the title suggests i'm trying to weight the pros and cons for a dedicated salt truck. I am going to get the rest of the year out of my 1.5 salt dogg and 3/4 ton truck, but man, 120+tons and 3-4 loads per storm is a lot of wasted time traveling and refilling for me. salting route takes too long. So next season is hopefully a bigger truck with a 5+ yard capacity, and the 1.5 yard salter as a backup or 2nd unit for max capacity. the bigger truck alone should cut the time in half, which really needs to happen to keep my costumers happy.

So here is what I think to be the 2 best options for me.

1) international single axle dump truck with 11' box and under-tailgate spreader

OR

2) similar truck body with no dump box, just a frame with a 5 yard sander/salter mounted to it.

now for questions for those who care to answer them (which I really would like to hear some seasoned pros with their experience chime in)

1) will they spread equally as good? I salt mostly medium sized commercial lots, 1/2 acre to 3 acres in size mostly. some roads as well.

2) will bulk salt flow good enough in a dump truck? do I need a vibrator? the salt will be fairly dry and stored under cover.

3) Im looking for longevity and reliability. the undertailgate seems like there is less to go wrong. any opinions?

4) I currently do not have any uses for a year around dump truck, though i'm sure i would find some uses. Are there different registration or insurance requirements between these two types of trucks (I know i gotta check local requirements, just wondering what others say for their areas, maybe it doesn't matter?)

5) what is the turning radius like on these types of trucks compared to a pickup?

here are some pictures to show what 2 basic types of trucks im talking about. Thanks again for any help and info.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

I run two pickups with 8 ft vboxes that take care of the smaller jobs but I run a Ford L8000 single axle dump not unlike your first pic of the International fory bigger jobs. It has the under tailgate spreader an is very reliable tho trickier for some to get the hang of raising the box and spreading.You just have to take it easier but the spinner can really throw the salt which is nice for large lots and for shooting it under semi trailers. The Vbox idea isnt bad but will have more maintenance and you cant use the truck for anything else.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

With the dump you will have more versatility, just emptying extra salt out when you are done just raising the box is plus. With a V box bolted to the frame you only have a salt truck.


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## geer hed (Nov 22, 2010)

Go with the dump truck and tailgate spreader. It's more versatile. I drive an international now that used to have the V- box spreader and it sucked, we finaly got rid of ot and got the tailgate spreader for it and it's like night and day. You can haul more material, and as said before it's easier and faster to emty out, and if you should need it to haul something else you don't have to remove the spreader to haul it.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

The V box will be twice the salt truck as the undergate and basically anyone can run it trouble free. I hate undergates with a passion.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

JD Dave;1577513 said:


> The V box will be twice the salt truck as the undergate and basically anyone can run it trouble free. I hate undergates with a passion.


Ya but not everyone has your money to have dedicated salt trucks


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## Red_Rattler (Feb 28, 2001)

If I wanted a truck for salt and thats it... VBOX all the way and yes put a vibrator on it, no matter how dry your salt or truck is, its sucks any and all the moisture out of the air it can and will clump and become sticky


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

JD Dave;1577513 said:


> The V box will be twice the salt truck as the undergate and basically anyone can run it trouble free. I hate undergates with a passion.


I couldn't agree more.

Besides ease of operation, I think there is also a lot of salt wasted with the undertailgate especially on your smaller lots to get into the nooks and crannies.

Go with the chassis mount vbox you won't be sorry


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

Thanks guys. just wondering, why is that some of you hate the under-gate? what reasons is it inferior to a v box? Also, how do you waste extra salt? I assume most under-gate salters have independent auger and spinner control so you can shut it on and off as you would a v box?

Just wondering, i'm not too educated or experienced with this stuff. I know you need to run the dump body up some to keep the salt flowing to the back which is not good for low clearance places or stability (from what i've searched), but other than that I cant see too many negatives for me. but I have been wrong many times! thanks


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

I have an IH similar to the first one pictured ..an S series..it turns amazingly sharp compared to my dodges. I have an UTG spreader..I can't imagine using a V box on the truck..a gazillion more moving parts..you will need something big to get it on and off the truck (unless it's frame mounted)..you will something big to reach the top/ middle of the box to load it..if its a dump you can still use the truck..easy to unload..V box will cost more..but that's just me.............
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=1539356#post1539356

PS I don't run my body up very often even though I have a body up light..I just dump salt to the back then lower and salt.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

The three under tailgates we have are hydraulic. Auger and spinner can be operated at different rates but on/off is not independent. It takes a more skilled operator to run the under tailgate, it takes a lot of practice to balance engine rpms with travel speed. The undertaigate is fine for your 3+ acre lots but on those smaller ones and roads the vbox is going to be better. Most of your undertailgates are going to spread from the middle of the truck out past the passenger side giving you a void on the drivers side so you have to turn around to spread the opposite direction which is where I see the waste. The vbox spreads even to both sides (or should). Loading docks can be a real p.I.t.a with the undertailgate


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## MatthewG (Jun 16, 2009)

I have a 5-6 ton Monroe stainless steel V box in the bed of my 33,000LB dump body - never again.

Next year its an aluminum dump bed with stainless tailgate spreader


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## geer hed (Nov 22, 2010)

First If you get a v box on a truck like that and don't go full hydraulic your just wasting your money. Now if you do go with hydraulic the controls should be the same. you will have a box inside the cab that has a lever on it with 2 dials, the lever turns the spreader on and off, the dials are for the spinner and conveyer. you can control them independantly by turning one or the other up or down. The problem with them is that the only adjustment for pattern or lane is by moving the flaps at the spinner up or down.

Now with a tailgate spreader the controls are the same as the V box, but you have more control over where your material goes. You slide the spinner left or right in order to control where it lands, If you slide the spinner left you will throw the material ALL to the left of the truck, slide it right and it throws it all to the right side of the truck. You will have to play with it a bit until you find where it needs to be to throw the pattern you want.

I have used both type spreders on different trucks, I have plowed and salted everything from a driveway to a 4 lane highway, and from a small bank parking lot to the parking lot a Roadway trucking depot. Trust me the tailgate is the way to go.

Plus the pics of the two trucks you have posted, The second one may not be equiped with a hydraulic system yet which would be an additional cost for set up, where you know the dump allready has it. and if your doing P lots I'm not sure by the pic but the second truck looks like it has a longer frame which will make manuvering more dificult.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

JD Dave;1577513 said:


> The V box will be twice the salt truck as the undergate and basically anyone can run it trouble free. I hate undergates with a passion.


I have to agree with Dave. For the last 2 years I ran a under tailgate on my dedicated salt truck. Everything runs off central hydraulics. I hated how my guys would rev the snot out of my truck to get the box raised to slide the salt to the back or jamb on the brakes to get salt to slide. Also you need to be carefully of lights overhead power lines and trees with a under tailgate.

Now with the vbox in the box salting is a breeze. Next season box will come off and mount salter to frame of the truck.

You will like those internationals. Mine turns tighter then my pickups.


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## MatthewG (Jun 16, 2009)

Grassman09;1577719 said:


> I have to agree with Dave. For the last 2 years I ran a under tailgate on my dedicated salt truck. Everything runs off central hydraulics. I hated how my guys would rev the snot out of my truck to get the box raised to slide the salt to the back or jamb on the brakes to get salt to slide. Also you need to be carefully of lights overhead power lines and trees with a under tailgate.
> 
> Now with the vbox in the box salting is a breeze. Next season box will come off and mount salter to frame of the truck.
> 
> You will like those internationals. Mine turns tighter then my pickups.


How does the salt even spread from that spreader with the chutes pointing directly at the ground?


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

geer hed;1577702 said:


> Now with a tailgate spreader the controls are the same as the V box, but you have more control over where your material goes. You slide the spinner left or right in order to control where it lands, If you slide the spinner left you will throw the material ALL to the left of the truck, slide it right and it throws it all to the right side of the truck. You will have to play with it a bit until you find where it needs to be to throw the pattern you want..


In the chute of the spinner there is a flap. Flip it to the left it salts heavy to the right and visa versa.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

MatthewG;1577722 said:


> How does the salt even spread from that spreader with the chutes pointing directly at the ground?


Come stand beside it trust me it will whip it 2 to 3 lanes wide with spinner on high. I was doing walks today as my driver was doing the lane ways I got pelted a lil. That spinner sits pretty high so I have it like that so we do not pelt cars. I see what u mean now. We have them adjusted now. That was when I was putti g fluid film on chain so I didn't get covered In it.


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

Grassman09;1577719 said:


> I have to agree with Dave. For the last 2 years I ran a under tailgate on my dedicated salt truck. Everything runs off central hydraulics. I hated how my guys would rev the snot out of my truck to get the box raised to slide the salt to the back or jamb on the brakes to get salt to slide. Also you need to be carefully of lights overhead power lines and trees with a under tailgate.
> 
> Now with the vbox in the box salting is a breeze. Next season box will come off and mount salter to frame of the truck.
> 
> You will like those internationals. Mine turns tighter then my pickups.


You really can't fault the UTG spreader for your guys running the truck hard and I/you don't have to salt with the bed up. I raise my bed so the salt slides back , mostly at a standstill unless I am in the middle of an open lot, then lower and salt. I probably raise my 10 foot bed about 4 times to empty it
PS I was lucky enough to have my vinyl/sign guy give me an old polycarbonite sign from a sandwich shop which I temporarily layed in my bed so no salt could stick to the steel floor..it is amazing !!


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## MatthewG (Jun 16, 2009)

Grassman09;1577726 said:


> Come stand beside it trust me it will whip it 2 to 3 lanes wide with spinner on high. I was doing walks today as my driver was doing the lane ways I got pelted a lil. That spinner sits pretty high so I have it like that so we do not pelt cars. I see what u mean now. We have them adjusted now. That was when I was putti g fluid film on chain so I didn't get covered In it.


Ok, I have the same spread and I have my rear flap off and the side flaps 80% up, it spreads the same as yours about 60 feet but main coverage is about 30 foot based on spinner speed


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

xtreem3d;1577731 said:


> You really can't fault the UTG spreader for your guys running the truck hard and I/you don't have to salt with the bed up. I raise my bed so the salt slides back , mostly at a standstill unless I am in the middle of an open lot, then lower and salt. I probably raise my 10 foot bed about 4 times to empty it
> PS I was lucky enough to have my vinyl/sign guy give me an old polycarbonite sign from a sandwich shop which I temporarily layed in my bed so no salt could stick to the steel floor..it is amazing !!


thats also a good idea, I was thinking that same thing for a dump truck to have some poly or a non friction surface to let the salt move more freely. nice looking setup you have btw. what kind of salter is it that you have? thanks.


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## bcbrouwer (Oct 25, 2010)

Thanks for taking your time with all the reply's. I appreciate the input to both sides of the subject. Technically both ways will work for me, probably comparable in cost to set each up (dump truck more $ but under tailgate less, frame truck cheaper but v box more $) I have some thinking to do. But I am leaning toward the under tailgate. I just need to make sure I get a good one. thats another bunch of research and search engine time! possible another thread, im sure there are plenty already though


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

MatthewG;1577733 said:


> Ok, I have the same spread and I have my rear flap off and the side flaps 80% up, it spreads the same as yours about 60 feet but main coverage is about 30 foot based on spinner speed


Yea that sounds right. How far open do you keep the feed gate open? I have mine at about an inch and seams to do the job. I find my drag chain goes slow and with the dial all the way turned to full speed it only increases marginally.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

bcbrouwer;1577751 said:


> Thanks for taking your time with all the reply's. I appreciate the input to both sides of the subject. Technically both ways will work for me, probably comparable in cost to set each up (dump truck more $ but under tailgate less, frame truck cheaper but v box more $) I have some thinking to do. But I am leaning toward the under tailgate. I just need to make sure I get a good one. thats another bunch of research and search engine time! possible another thread, im sure there are plenty already though


Another option is a electric under tailgate or electric vbox spreader. I've seen a few guys here running them on trucks you are looking at. Buyers saltdogg has some 5 yard spreaders and also makes stainless Steele electric under tailgate spreaders.


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

bcbrouwer;1577741 said:


> thats also a good idea, I was thinking that same thing for a dump truck to have some poly or a non friction surface to let the salt move more freely. nice looking setup you have btw. what kind of salter is it that you have? thanks.


The spreader is a Buyers stainless. I don't know this for sure but I don't believe all UTG spreaders allow you to move the spinner to adjust the pattern behind the truck. That was the most important feature for me so that's what I have.

My bed was used to haul concrete and has the usually dents in the floor that would allow salt to cling to it in colder/wet conditions so that's why I used the sheets of polycarbonite...NOT ACRYLIC..acylic will get brittle in the cold. The ploy is flexable and works great..will try and get a pic with the bed up today,
Steve


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## joe2025 (Nov 26, 2010)

I have a 1 ton F450 dump that had a hydraulic tail gate spreader on when I bought the truck. About half way through the first season with it I backed into a light pole at the Kmart lot we had and smashed the spreader. I was talked into buying an electric V-box 3.5 yard spreader and it turned out to be the best think that could have happened. I am using a lot less salt now and the V-box spreads the material a lot further that the tailgate ever did. I figured that I was saving about 40% on the amount of salt I was using to do the same lots. Tailgate spreaders are meant to drop the salt onto the roadways and when vehicles travel over the salt they “carry” the salt with them and spread it further. In low traffic areas you do not get this effect. Plus you actually have 3 controls with the V-box, the gate can be adjusted to allow for the amount of material coming out of the box, and the feed belt and spinner speed can be controlled separately. As for salting with the box raised up I’d say that is something that is unnecessary and also very dangerous. Just my experience between the two types.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

If you were close by I'd sell you our set up, an International with a under tailgate - I would never ever use that set up again. It'll spread all the salt you want, you can control the pattern great, it'll spread fast and it'll throw it plenty far but what it requires is a very talented very observant operator.

We have a Buyers offset spreader, the auger feeds the spinner from both sides of the hopper roughly 75% passenger side and 25% drivers side - if one of the sides of the auger gets uncovered, the salt you are spreading gets cut in half. You can see the difference in the mirror at night with the work lights but during the daytime you can't see it at all. Dry salt seems to flow way better than damp salt but you can't control what gets delivered, and this year it's all been damp, not wet but damp. We literally have to raise the bed every 1000# to make sure the auger is covered and spreading consistently. This is the last year for that spreader, I've fought it long enough and can't come up with any good way to get it right - we aren't spreading with that bed in the air, with that kind of weight and uneven parking lots, no way. We haven't even talked about the rpm fluctuations figured in there.

My biggest beef with salting is I want to know what we put down and if your feed auger isn't consistently covered, you loose control.

Next year hopefully, a county style V box with I think it's Moorse controls. I don't know if they have a flow regulator on their units but it'll be put on there, take the rpm out of the question. The auger will have a counter on it so we know how many rotations it did so we can calculated the weight spread or we'll have a different truck entirely with an air suspension so that we can put scales on it.

When you go to these bigger units, the error rate is just higher, you're either getting shorted or your customer is - I just see a lot of money thrown out the window every night.


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## MatthewG (Jun 16, 2009)

Grassman09;1577754 said:


> Yea that sounds right. How far open do you keep the feed gate open? I have mine at about an inch and seams to do the job. I find my drag chain goes slow and with the dial all the way turned to full speed it only increases marginally.


Our gate is 1.5, we also have very little speed difference in the chain, we have slowed the spinner to about 75% speed to get thicker coverage


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