# Brightview



## ct-vt lawnguy

Anyone have experience working with brightview just got there 2017 rfp email the other day pros and cons of working with them would be appreciated


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## John_DeereGreen

Do the check ins, keep your paperwork correct and they'll pay. 

Screw any of that up, and you'll be like ramairfreak on here and constantly *****ing and moaning about how you didn't get paid.


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## Maclawnco

John_DeereGreen said:


> Do the check ins, keep your paperwork correct and they'll pay.
> 
> Screw any of that up, and you'll be like ramairfreak on here and constantly *****ing and moaning about how you didn't get paid.


Not always. We did theircheckins, paperwork, and portal entries to the T and they still shorted us significantly on a grainger 2 years ago. They would just randomly deny services, like one of every 5. Same services we did at a seasonal lowes just down the road for them.

Word to the wise on their rfp. Their seasonal numbers are not the max they *can* pay. It may be the most they *want* to pay, but they *can* pay more. We've done a lowes for 7 or 8 years for them, actually now the only site we do for them. 3 years ago they switched mid season in Dec to installment, we agreed $18000 was fair. The last 2 years the rfp offered it at $12000. They paid $18000 both years. Its still not enough to deal with tbeir BS, but its works in with other lots we do.


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## FredG

OP, There you go, If you got ?'s on the upper threads ask, Let us know how you make out. Good Luck


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## Mark Oomkes

ct-vt lawnguy said:


> Anyone have experience working with brightview just got there 2017 rfp email the other day pros and cons of working with them would be appreciated


You do know that Brightview was Brickman until last year, right?


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## Philbilly2

Never worked for Brightview per say... I did work for Brickman years back.

I had the same experience as Jarrett. Paperwork was everything... do it right and you get paid. Miss one thing, you will not get paid till everything was correct.


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> You do know that Brightview was Brickman until last year, right?


Brickman and Valley Crest combined I thought... no?


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> Brickman and Valley Crest combined I thought... no?


Correct...


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## Defcon 5

Philbilly2 said:


> Brickman and Valley Crest combined I thought... no?


They Literally Did....


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> They Literally Did....


It twas an epic combination...


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## Philbilly2

epic... interesting


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> It twas an epic combination...


I heard it was a real "game changer"


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## Defcon 5

Instead of Brightview they should have named it...Literally Epic Lawn and Snow...


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## LapeerLandscape

Defcon 5 said:


> They Literally Did....


It was bright of you to view it that way...


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## Philbilly2

LapeerLandscape said:


> It was bright of you to view it that way...


he's got jokes today folks :clapping:


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## Defcon 5

LapeerLandscape said:


> It was bright of you to view it that way...


Thank You for calling me bright...No one has ever called me that before...It's a banner day in the tree for me today


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Instead of Brightview they should have named it...Literally Epic Lawn and Snow...


I thought you patented that name?

Do they not allow monkeys to apply for patents?


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> I thought you patented that name?
> 
> Do they not allow monkeys to apply for patents?


Sure


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## Broncslefty7

18k for a lowes? seems cheap... the RFP for our lowes here was 19k and the target was 21k, i was thinking more like 25-27k.


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## John_DeereGreen

It's all dependent on location....


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## ponyboy

One our our lowes went for $8,000 should be $20,000


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## Broncslefty7

not even worth it....


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## ponyboy

No they are not 
He is just keeping his guys busy barley put down a ton of salt when should be 3 tons mint got to cut corner some where when u want to work for these companies dirt cheap


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## Masssnowfighter

Broncslefty7 said:


> 18k for a lowes? seems cheap... the RFP for our lowes here was 19k and the target was 21k, i was thinking more like 25-27k.


Same in my area, one lowes was $19k and the other was $21k. The Home Depot in my town which was being done for $35k less then 3 years ago was done for $10k last winter, and the service definitely reflected the price


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## Broncslefty7

yeah a buddy of mine did the lowes in the early 2000's for 52k.....


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## ocplowco

I did 6 PNC banks and two rite aids for them last year. They paid on time and the one time they made a mistake i called them and within two days they direct deposited the difference. I'm personally looking to working with them again this year..


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## Defcon 5

ocplowco said:


> I did 6 PNC banks and two rite aids for them last year. They paid on time and the one time they made a mistake i called them and within two days they direct deposited the difference. I'm personally looking to working with them again this year..


The company I work for(notice that olddog)...Does a bunch of work for Brickman-Brightview and has had very little issues...Just gotta do all the reporting correct and they pay


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## 1olddogtwo

Defcon 5 said:


> The company I work for(notice that olddog)...


Silly me, I thought AA was a non for profit.

Here I was thinking it's just a bunch of guys/gals sitting around talking...., What step is salting?


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## Defcon 5

1olddogtwo said:


> Silly me, I thought AA was a non for profit.
> 
> Here I was thinking it's just a bunch of guys/gals sitting around talking...., What step is salting?


Salting is step 2....Right after Presalting and right before Pre Plowing...


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## A&J landscaping and snow

There pricing is a joke this year in my area


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## Ramairfreak98ss

John_DeereGreen said:


> Do the check ins, keep your paperwork correct and they'll pay.
> 
> Screw any of that up, and you'll be like ramairfreak on here and constantly *****ing and moaning about how you didn't get paid.


Yeah, take it from me what its worth, its not worth working for them... paid less, paid 75-80% of what you bill at that lower rate, headaches, billing costs, insurance costs, slow rates of pay from 45-100+ days at times with just about all of them..


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Broncslefty7 said:


> 18k for a lowes? seems cheap... the RFP for our lowes here was 19k and the target was 21k, i was thinking more like 25-27k.


LOL, seen home cheapos near us for the last 7 years seasonal from $6k lowest for one year "WTF really?" to about $24k... its about 1/3 of our rate.. and every year no body shows up, no machines on site, can't get into the store etc..


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## John_DeereGreen

Ramairfreak98ss said:


> Yeah, take it from me what its worth, its not worth working for them... paid less, paid 75-80% of what you bill at that lower rate, headaches, billing costs, insurance costs, slow rates of pay from 45-100+ days at times with just about all of them..


I have and do work for them. And they're one of the two NSP's that I've never had an issue with that wasn't self inflicted. Even one you say is terrible (SMS) we've had very little issue with, although it has been a couple years since I've worked for them.

It seems like EVERY NSP you work for pays slow, or doesn't pay, or wants different insurance, or there's headaches, etc.

At what point in time should one look at the situation of having trouble with every NSP and go, "maybe the problem is me?" If ya keep doin whatcha been doin, you're gonna keep gettin whatcha been gettin. It's pretty simple.


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## John_DeereGreen

Oh, and if the service is so bad from every sub that every NSP has in your area, don't you think maybe the national chain contracting with the NSP would give them the boot? It sure happens here...

I call pure bs on 95% of your "issues" and "service failures".


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## Defcon 5

I'm at 97.9%


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## John_DeereGreen

Defcon 5 said:


> I'm at 97.9%


I'm trying to be nice so I don't get an angry pm, have my post count go backward, or get the thread locked.


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> I'm at 97.9%


99.7%


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## Philbilly2

John_DeereGreen said:


> I have and do work for them. And they're one of the two NSP's that I've never had an issue with that wasn't self inflicted. Even one you say is terrible (SMS) we've had very little issue with, although it has been a couple years since I've worked for them.
> 
> It seems like EVERY NSP you work for pays slow, or doesn't pay, or wants different insurance, or there's headaches, etc.
> 
> At what point in time should one look at the situation of having trouble with every NSP and go, "maybe the problem is me?" If ya keep doin whatcha been doin, you're gonna keep gettin whatcha been gettin. It's pretty simple.







Thank god someone said it so I didn't have to.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

John_DeereGreen said:


> I have and do work for them. And they're one of the two NSP's that I've never had an issue with that wasn't self inflicted. Even one you say is terrible (SMS) we've had very little issue with, although it has been a couple years since I've worked for them.
> 
> It seems like EVERY NSP you work for pays slow, or doesn't pay, or wants different insurance, or there's headaches, etc.
> 
> At what point in time should one look at the situation of having trouble with every NSP and go, "maybe the problem is me?" If ya keep doin whatcha been doin, you're gonna keep gettin whatcha been gettin. It's pretty simple.


Its not me, its NSPs, not doubting your abilities, i have no idea what they are, but when contractor A comes on plowsite and says he has NO problems with nsp1, and bills them $6k for the season , you can't even think to compare that to contractor B billing 90k a month to the same company.. company B's billing gets sent to an entire different office, to "account managers" who then scrutinize everything to shave off every dollar because ONE change can save them $10k.... your $6k per season account they'll do a lot of digging to shave off $400.00. I know local guys, plow 1-2 Rite Aids, no problem in 3 years, same company we did them for years back and didn't pay for half of them.


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## Freshwater

Ramairfreak98ss said:


> Its not me, its NSPs, not doubting your abilities, i have no idea what they are, but when contractor A comes on plowsite and says he has NO problems with nsp1, and bills them $6k for the season , you can't even think to compare that to contractor B billing 90k a month to the same company.. company B's billing gets sent to an entire different office, to "account managers" who then scrutinize everything to shave off every dollar because ONE change can save them $10k.... your $6k per season account they'll do a lot of digging to shave off $400.00. I know local guys, plow 1-2 Rite Aids, no problem in 3 years, same company we did them for years back and didn't pay for half of them.


90k per month would put you in line with some of the biggest outfits in my area. These companies have 0 issues, due to their size, capital, and their ability to litigate. Not sure if you were just throwing numbers out, but I'm not buying it either. These things never seem to add up with you.


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## Broncslefty7

We did a chain of daycares for them. It ended up in court over 24k.


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## Mike_C

Run, do not walk. Run fast. Unless you like going to court for five figures then by all means have at it


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## John_DeereGreen

Who are you guys saying to run from?


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## Broncslefty7

BRightview. when we worked for them it was brickman. i had issues with them maybe like 8 years ago, idk if they have changed or not, but it ended up being like a 18k mistake.


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## Mark Oomkes

I honestly don't know how they do it, 2 of the accounts they are currently servicing by me look like absolute crap. Specs aren't even close to being followed. 

They're being thrown oof the job, but in the meantime, the places are dumps. They took over the airport from the red army, and as much as I hate to admit it, the red army did a far superior job mowing it. It's looked like crap since a month into it.


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> I honestly don't know how they do it, 2 of the accounts they are currently servicing by me look like absolute crap. Specs aren't even close to being followed.
> 
> They're being thrown oof the job, but in the meantime, the places are dumps. They took over the airport from the red army, and as much as I hate to admit it, the red army did a far superior job mowing it. It's looked like crap since a month into it.


Does your local branch of Brightview Landscape hold the contracts or is it Brightview Facility Solutions?

Unless things changed with Brightview, the local branches are a totally separate entity from the NSP that's being discussed with payment or non payment issues.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Freshwater said:


> 90k per month would put you in line with some of the biggest outfits in my area. These companies have 0 issues, due to their size, capital, and their ability to litigate. Not sure if you were just throwing numbers out, but I'm not buying it either. These things never seem to add up with you.


We easily bill 90k+ a month during the winter.. calculate it out.

$100k month x NOV-March is only a 500k per season company... We would have nearly made the top 100 in the country by gross sales for a couple years in 13/14 and 14/15... i KNOW there are at least 10+ in NJ alone who have gross #s well past 7 figures... so 90k isnt anywhere near the biggest outfits.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Broncslefty7 said:


> BRightview. when we worked for them it was brickman. i had issues with them maybe like 8 years ago, idk if they have changed or not, but it ended up being like a 18k mistake.


We once "years back", where hired by a company that had an account, but come to find out it was a brickman account.. The company "brickmans hired" who we worked under, kept telling us not to salt, not to plow even at 2-3"... one day we leave a site and swing by at 4", still getting the hold off till we get approval drill.. we find 8 guys in an f550 brickman truck leaving the site, all plowed and salted... yep, thats how brickmans ran around here, luckily would never contract with them after that incident.


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## Broncslefty7

we did everything to a T perfect plow and salt extremely clear cut per inch and salt application contract. the bill for the season came to around 32k and we got a little less than half of it in court. we where contracted directly with brickman, and it was a nightmare. im not sure how they won in court but they where making outrageous claims with no evidence. if we had GPS in the trucks back then we most likely would have won. Lesson Learned.


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## Mark Oomkes

Ramairfreak98ss said:


> We easily bill 90k+ a month during the winter.. calculate it out.
> 
> $100k month x NOV-March is only a 500k per season company... We would have nearly made the top 100 in the country by gross sales for a couple years in 13/14 and 14/15... i KNOW there are at least 10+ in NJ alone who have gross #s well past 7 figures... so 90k isnt anywhere near the biggest outfits.


Sure...


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## Defcon 5

Literally Sure


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## Broncslefty7

the money is nice, but sitting in an office while your zillion subs are out working is kind of lame. i actually like plowing snow, i dont know why but i do. i think you can start saying you are a large snow company once you are doing 250k-300k in our area.


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## JustJeff

"Epically" sure? Any objections to me using that word Def?


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## Defcon 5

JustJeff said:


> "Epically" sure? Any objections to me using that word Def?


Literally No


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## Freshwater

Ramairfreak98ss said:


> We easily bill 90k+ a month during the winter.. calculate it out.
> 
> $100k month x NOV-March is only a 500k per season company... We would have nearly made the top 100 in the country by gross sales for a couple years in 13/14 and 14/15... i KNOW there are at least 10+ in NJ alone who have gross #s well past 7 figures... so 90k isnt anywhere near the biggest outfits.


500k per season x how many nsp your working For? Plus all your direct accounts which should be a substantial portion of your portfolio. 500k for brickman you should be a 7figure company. And if you are, HIRE somebody to handle this.


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## John_DeereGreen

Nice avatar Todd...


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## JMHConstruction

John_DeereGreen said:


> Nice avatar Todd...


It threw me off. I had to look a few times to see if I read it right


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## Mark Oomkes

JMHConstruction said:


> It threw me off. I had to look a few times to see if I read it right


He switched it again...he must be more bored than when he is at "work".


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> He switched it again...he must be more bored than when he is at "work".


Yes


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## FredG

Ramairfreak98ss said:


> We easily bill 90k+ a month during the winter.. calculate it out.
> 
> $100k month x NOV-March is only a 500k per season company... We would have nearly made the top 100 in the country by gross sales for a couple years in 13/14 and 14/15... i KNOW there are at least 10+ in NJ alone who have gross #s well past 7 figures... so 90k isnt anywhere near the biggest outfits.


As I am no wheres near $100K per month moving snow a couple ?'s. How many good top notch plow guys plus office help does it take to put 100K monthly on the books. My largest client is only $6500.00 per month. What is your average snowfall? I got to pull teeth to earn $500k for the whole year. lol I'm happy were I'm at tho + my pension.


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## FredG

Defcon 5 said:


> Yes


Looks like one of the members, I can't remember who tho.


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## JMHConstruction

Mark Oomkes said:


> He switched it again...he must be more bored than when he is at "work".


Yeah, but he has a picture of the wrong end of the horse.


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## JMHConstruction

FredG said:


> As I am no wheres near $100K per month moving snow a couple ?'s. How many good top notch plow guys plus office help does it take to put 100K monthly on the books. My largest client is only $6500.00 per month. What is your average snowfall? I got to pull teeth to earn $500k for the whole year. lol I'm happy were I'm at tho + my pension.


I'd have to hire all of kansas city. With out 20" average (and haven't seen that in a while) I'd have to get every big box and mall in the area.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

FredG said:


> As I am no wheres near $100K per month moving snow a couple ?'s. How many good top notch plow guys plus office help does it take to put 100K monthly on the books. My largest client is only $6500.00 per month. What is your average snowfall? I got to pull teeth to earn $500k for the whole year. lol I'm happy were I'm at tho + my pension.


Only need a couple people in office to handle the bills.. honestly its much more work during a very busy season than not, but doesn't mean you need 9 people to answer phones and send out bills and such... 13/14 was the biggest year and i had two who phones were forwarded to when no one was in office or was closed, mine and two site managers phones are avail 24/7... i reviewed all invoices for accuracy, cross checked gps logs etc. after office had everything done and ready to mail or email out. they surely were busy that season but not sending out an invoice for 20 services versus 4 or 3 invoices per client per week versus 1 doesn't take that many more people... repetition and well trained can knock out much more knowing the accounts than 10 people could with little training and experience doing it. Our main issue that year was when accounts called me directly and demanded "I" meet them at their site, often for minor issues they could easily just request and explain over the phone so we could get the guys out with machines or trucks to rectify.. usually our smallest accounts, like a tiny liquor store, wanted me out there personally 3 days straight after a 18" storm, single digits overnight for all 3 days, crews were almost maxed out, in the end, he wanted us to reduce services so his bill wasn't so much, not even an actual complaint about the site, even though when we wouldn't do that, he then complained about anything he could for a half hour as if a bargaining tool to charge him less off his invoices. For the professionals in Michigan who don't make 100k a month ever like Mark, in NJ you can do $100k per larger storm, so nov/december months could be $70k total and then one week is $150k.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

and for whoever said something about sub contracting everything and not actually plowing.. who do you think takes all the photos during the storms? Although i try to actually dedicate myself less and less each year, for years i've been out there the whole time with the other crews...usually too many hours running myself out after 40 hours or 100hrs in a week. Ill run the machines, transport equipment if the other guys are behind, plow in the trucks, run salt runs in the am/pm with the other trucks, snowblow sidewalks, shovel doorways and storefronts... also helps you figure out who's a good worker and who isn't.. many times they've never met me yet or don't realize the boss is out shoveling with them so i see all that goes on.


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## John_DeereGreen




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## Freshwater

Ramairfreak98ss said:


> Only need a couple people in office to handle the bills.. honestly its much more work during a very busy season than not, but doesn't mean you need 9 people to answer phones and send out bills and such... 13/14 was the biggest year and i had two who phones were forwarded to when no one was in office or was closed, mine and two site managers phones are avail 24/7... i reviewed all invoices for accuracy, cross checked gps logs etc. after office had everything done and ready to mail or email out. they surely were busy that season but not sending out an invoice for 20 services versus 4 or 3 invoices per client per week versus 1 doesn't take that many more people... repetition and well trained can knock out much more knowing the accounts than 10 people could with little training and experience doing it. Our main issue that year was when accounts called me directly and demanded "I" meet them at their site, often for minor issues they could easily just request and explain over the phone so we could get the guys out with machines or trucks to rectify.. usually our smallest accounts, like a tiny liquor store, wanted me out there personally 3 days straight after a 18" storm, single digits overnight for all 3 days, crews were almost maxed out, in the end, he wanted us to reduce services so his bill wasn't so much, not even an actual complaint about the site, even though when we wouldn't do that, he then complained about anything he could for a half hour as if a bargaining tool to charge him less off his invoices. For the professionals in Michigan who don't make 100k a month ever like Mark, in NJ you can do $100k per larger storm, so nov/december months could be $70k total and then one week is $150k.


This is an honest question ramair... have you considered hiring somebody or a couple people just to handle NSP for you? It sounds like your losing more from them than it would cost to hire?


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## FredG

$100K per month I would have reduce my summer operations down to lazy mood.


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## Mark Oomkes

Ramairfreak98ss said:


> Only need a couple people in office to handle the bills.. honestly its much more work during a very busy season than not, but doesn't mean you need 9 people to answer phones and send out bills and such... 13/14 was the biggest year and i had two who phones were forwarded to when no one was in office or was closed, mine and two site managers phones are avail 24/7... i reviewed all invoices for accuracy, cross checked gps logs etc. after office had everything done and ready to mail or email out. they surely were busy that season but not sending out an invoice for 20 services versus 4 or 3 invoices per client per week versus 1 doesn't take that many more people... repetition and well trained can knock out much more knowing the accounts than 10 people could with little training and experience doing it. Our main issue that year was when accounts called me directly and demanded "I" meet them at their site, often for minor issues they could easily just request and explain over the phone so we could get the guys out with machines or trucks to rectify.. usually our smallest accounts, like a tiny liquor store, wanted me out there personally 3 days straight after a 18" storm, single digits overnight for all 3 days, crews were almost maxed out, in the end, he wanted us to reduce services so his bill wasn't so much, not even an actual complaint about the site, even though when we wouldn't do that, he then complained about anything he could for a half hour as if a bargaining tool to charge him less off his invoices. For the professionals in Michigan who don't make 100k a month ever like Mark, in NJ you can do $100k per larger storm, so nov/december months could be $70k total and then one week is $150k.


LOL


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Freshwater said:


> This is an honest question ramair... have you considered hiring somebody or a couple people just to handle NSP for you? It sounds like your losing more from them than it would cost to hire?


we don't service any sites for any of them anymore. but yes, you'd literally need an office staff and accounts manager JUST for one or two NSPs... they suck up that much off the job/site time and then still don't get paid


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## Ramairfreak98ss

FredG said:


> $100K per month I would have reduce my summer operations down to lazy mood.


companies/guys on here are $5k/10k month companies, all think they're playing the same game though and know it all.


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