# Sidewalk Crews



## bodaggin (Sep 23, 2011)

I am looking to get some ideas from the guys who use sidewalk crews. I am thinking down the road as I grow in size, how to efficiently service each kind of property, and how I will allocate those crews. Can someone who uses sidewalk crews, please shed some light on how you allocate the crews, and the structure you use that helps increase your efficiency.

Thanks


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

Im new to the business, but i do have a sidewalk crew, mainly because I started with just a blower last year and have now gotten a plow. I just have one guy driving the plow, one guy to shovel that rides with him. Then my sidewalk crew has their own truck with 2 blowers and a walk behind spreader. If we ever get behind I figure I can send them to a driveway to get it done quick, while still doing their route.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

I send a reliable hard working guy out in a van with a single stage blower, spreader and bag salt. If we have a big storm he will pull a trailer with two 2 stage blowers. One for a backup. Usually he can handle all of my accounts. He takes care of about 10 medium size jobs.


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## viper881 (Jan 14, 2009)

I do not do very much in the side walk area. But the crew that i do goes in a group of 2 instead of 1 so they get the job done quicker and get more breaks inbetween shoveling places. They salt and shovel...i found that blowers were less reliable then my workers themselves! So no snowblowers just shovels. They use the 38' and 48' inch shovels which are great for 2 inchs and way quicker then single stage blowers and quieter! I found high school students at church, or friends of friends to hire.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Well my first advice is stay away from sidewalks as much as you can! Chances are they will leave you high and dry more time than not and if you have a 4-5 hour sidewalk route like we do your in a real bind many times. We've been through a few guys this year and we've hardly went out. Just be aware, your most likely in for many disappointments. I guess some other advice would be to get enough sidewalk accounts to make it worth they're while, no one wants to go out for an hour or two and hire at least a handful of guys so you have a few to pick from if guy #1 doesn't show up.


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## mdb landscaping (Sep 29, 2000)

We run 4 sidewalk crews. Each crew usually has between 4-6 people depending on the type of storm. Efficiency is key and we have a set routine and schedule. Each crew has a box truck equipped with 2 stage snowblowers, single stage snowblowers, shovels, ice scrapers and ice melt. As far as ice melt goes, we actually mount two 55 gallon drums inside the truck. We cut a hole in the floor and install a pipe with a spicket on the end. When the crew needs to fill spreaders with ice melt, all they have to do is stick the spreader under the side of the truck and open the spicket. This has proven to be a huge time saver. Two of our crews also have ride on john deere machines with snowblowers. Our accounts are all very close, so we just drive the sidewalk machine site to site. The bigger snowblower opens everything up, and the sidewalk crews follow doing all the clean-up, ice melting and stair shoveling.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

mdb landscaping;1450853 said:


> We run 4 sidewalk crews. Each crew usually has between 4-6 people depending on the type of storm. Efficiency is key and we have a set routine and schedule. Each crew has a box truck equipped with 2 stage snowblowers, single stage snowblowers, shovels, ice scrapers and ice melt. As far as ice melt goes, we actually mount two 55 gallon drums inside the truck. We cut a hole in the floor and install a pipe with a spicket on the end. When the crew needs to fill spreaders with ice melt, all they have to do is stick the spreader under the side of the truck and open the spicket. This has proven to be a huge time saver. Two of our crews also have ride on john deere machines with snowblowers. Our accounts are all very close, so we just drive the sidewalk machine site to site. The bigger snowblower opens everything up, and the sidewalk crews follow doing all the clean-up, ice melting and stair shoveling.


Sounds like a nice system Matt. Love to see pics of that set up.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

My 2 man crew has 6 hrs of walks and 15 small tight driveways 
58'' front plow and 48 rear pull plow on ATV Push icemelt spreader 2 shovels
They drive truck and small tilt trailer

The Sidewalk crew route is pretty tight when doing walks they only have unload 4 times in the 6 hrs


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Giving them the right tools and setup is important. We run cube vans that are each equipped with an atv, and several single stage snowblowers, shovels and a pallet of ice melt. We also cut plastic 55 gallon drums in half to fill with bulk rock salt. Everything stays nice and dry. Having a few really reliable guys as the leaders and then a call list of "others" seems to work well for us.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

If I didnt do walks I wouldnt get any accounts. Actually sidewalks can be more profitable than plowing.


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## bodaggin (Sep 23, 2011)

mdb landscaping;1450853 said:


> We run 4 sidewalk crews. Each crew usually has between 4-6 people depending on the type of storm. Efficiency is key and we have a set routine and schedule. Each crew has a box truck equipped with 2 stage snowblowers, single stage snowblowers, shovels, ice scrapers and ice melt. As far as ice melt goes, we actually mount two 55 gallon drums inside the truck. We cut a hole in the floor and install a pipe with a spicket on the end. When the crew needs to fill spreaders with ice melt, all they have to do is stick the spreader under the side of the truck and open the spicket. This has proven to be a huge time saver. Two of our crews also have ride on john deere machines with snowblowers. Our accounts are all very close, so we just drive the sidewalk machine site to site. The bigger snowblower opens everything up, and the sidewalk crews follow doing all the clean-up, ice melting and stair shoveling.


Brilliant idea for quick salt refilling.

For the rest of you. So do you put your sidewalk crews on sidewalk only properties? Or send them to properties with sidewalks and driveways and your plow guy just does drives and the sidewalk crew just does sidewalks.


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## GLSS22 (Dec 31, 2007)

mdb landscaping;1450853 said:


> We run 4 sidewalk crews. Each crew usually has between 4-6 people depending on the type of storm. Efficiency is key and we have a set routine and schedule. Each crew has a box truck equipped with 2 stage snowblowers, single stage snowblowers, shovels, ice scrapers and ice melt. As far as ice melt goes, we actually mount two 55 gallon drums inside the truck. We cut a hole in the floor and install a pipe with a spicket on the end. When the crew needs to fill spreaders with ice melt, all they have to do is stick the spreader under the side of the truck and open the spicket. This has proven to be a huge time saver. Two of our crews also have ride on john deere machines with snowblowers. Our accounts are all very close, so we just drive the sidewalk machine site to site. The bigger snowblower opens everything up, and the sidewalk crews follow doing all the clean-up, ice melting and stair shoveling.


Please snaps some pics of your box truck setup, sounds awesome!


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

bodaggin;1451551 said:


> Brilliant idea for quick salt refilling.
> 
> For the rest of you. So do you put your sidewalk crews on sidewalk only properties? Or send them to properties with sidewalks and driveways and your plow guy just does drives and the sidewalk crew just does sidewalks.


We only have a few sidewalks only properties, mainly they are working on properties where plowing is also done, we make it the sidewalk guys responsibility to make sure the walks and bottom side of curbs are cleared so the plower will be able to fully clear the fronts of buildings/ infront of garages at condos.


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

bodaggin;1451551 said:


> Brilliant idea for quick salt refilling.
> 
> For the rest of you. So do you put your sidewalk crews on sidewalk only properties? Or send them to properties with sidewalks and driveways and your plow guy just does drives and the sidewalk crew just does sidewalks.


I am on my second season, so we are VERY small, since its me running everything and I have 3 friends working for me, 1 has a plow. We do have 3 lots that can take awhile, and a few sidewalk accounts. So if the sidewalk guys get done before my plow, I will send them to a driveway or two, just to help so that the customers are happy. My plow guy gets stuck sometimes at one lot because the people come out and move their cars, but no complaints since it stops us from having to go back haha.


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## mdb landscaping (Sep 29, 2000)

Since I got so many requests, I have taken some pictures of the one of the newer trucks we set up this fall. I hope these help explain how we do it.....


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## mdb landscaping (Sep 29, 2000)

Heres a shot of the dispenser. We made this so it kind of works like a knife in case there are chunks in the line. Before we used to use a pvc end with an on/off type switch, but this knife setup works better and doesnt get stuck like pvc did.


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## mdb landscaping (Sep 29, 2000)

Shot of the barrels. Under the tarp we have a metal screen so bigger chunks don't end up in the barrels...


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## mdb landscaping (Sep 29, 2000)

Shot of the rear. Sometimes we put a full pallet of ice melt in the back.....Heavier snowstorms we also put a quad in here sometimes. The split gate has worked well for us. We have tried full gates before, but this is more versatile for loading.


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## mdb landscaping (Sep 29, 2000)

Heres a shot of one of our sidewalk machines. Without these machines and blowers last year, we would've never been able to keep up since we got absolutely slammed last January. These machines are the workhorse of the sidewalk crews. Extremely nimble, yet definatley powerful enough.


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## mdb landscaping (Sep 29, 2000)

Last shot.... One of our other box trucks set up....


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## viper881 (Jan 14, 2009)

Looks awesome! Would love to put a blower on my jd 1445 like that. The hard cabs are hard to find now! Very productive setup!


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## bodaggin (Sep 23, 2011)

That is absolutely awesome man. I don't think it would be suitable for me entirely. But I would like to learn how to make that dispenser, just for filling up shaker jugs quickly. It looks like a firehose type attachment. Would you be so kind to teach? I ask cautiously because that thing is borderline patentable. lol


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## mdb landscaping (Sep 29, 2000)

Here is a picture of the valve we used to have on there. It works really well, except sometimes if there is a chunk of ice melt or something in there, its too hard to close. It worked well, and if you keep it lubed, this works, but I will try to find a picture of something similar to our setup. All we did was take and metal adapter, cut a slice through the middle, and made a little handle to close it.


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## bodaggin (Sep 23, 2011)

This is exactly what I found when you first mentioned the setup. Awesome!


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## mdb landscaping (Sep 29, 2000)

We got the idea off of our hydroseeder. This is not our truck, but we have the same valve on ours. If you need to shut off water flow before the pump, you just push the spade type vavle straight down to stop water flow. Same concept, but just turn it sideways instead.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

Thats a nice idea. As a few others have said even if you only need 1 crew of 2 for doing sidewalks you should have about 5 or 6 guys that want the work. Shovelers go quick. I started out the year with 10 shovelers and only needed 4-5 on a regular basis. I run two crews 1 of 2 and a second of 2-3 (stays on 1 site). Before the season even started I lost 2, and then throughout the season I lost another 3. I found 3 more guys but I tell you they come and go quickly. If you can find good ones that will stick around, ie a year round employee thats your best bet.

As far as routing, set up etc. I like the idea (in order of preference) of either A) cube vans B) Contractor Van or C) Truck/Enclosed Trailer. Keeping your sidewalk gear as dry as possible is very important. All of our spreaders are equiped with the weather covers, becasue if that inside gets a little wet the salt just stops flowing out of the spreader. If your salt is in the open then it gets snow covered and is harder to handle the bags, the salt sometimes gets wet which sucks, and you have to worry about weighing down your used bags.

Always have a good variety of tools available for your crews. Single stage blowers are very good in most events 2-4" and I believe are a must have. I think a 2-3 man crew should have 2 single stages no matter what. Have at least 1 two stage blower available for them as well so when they get bigger storms or wet snow so they dont have to shovel everything becasue those single stagers arent going to work. Have two styles of shovels availalbe as well for them. I like to have scoop style shovels available for heavier storms, normal shoveling, and then a pusher style shovel for those quick 1" storms where you have a lot of sidewalk to do, or city walks to do where you can just start pushing and hit the entire sidewalk in 1 swipe (get a 36" pusher shovel so they fit on all of your walks.)

Having a good quality push spreader is probably one of the most important things to have too. Over the years I have been through so many different junk spreaders it isnt even funny. Get a good spreader that is specifically designed for salt, like the snowex spreaders, earthways, or spyker spreaders. Something that there is just one big square spreader hole instead of 3 induvidual ones so the salt can easily flow out of it. If you can get one too that has the salt deflectors on it that is nice too, especially on city walks or walks surrounded by grass or landscape beds. You can keep all of the salt right on the walks and save some salt as well as avoid having to do seed work in the spring. And after each storm empy the spreader out and wash it. When that salt stays in there it hardens up a lot quicker than salt in a vbox does and it doesnt flow out as good. wash the spreader so then the salt isnt eating away at the frame, spinner, all of the bearings etc.

As far as crew size I like to have at least 2 for various reasons. You can get the work done quicker and B sidewalk work is tough and theres room for a lot of accidents and health issues for your guys if they are out in the cold too long, stick their hand in the machine, over work themselves etc. So I always like to have 2 for that reason as well. I always try to route the shovelers so they get to the site before the plows do. We like to throw the snow into the lots not the building or on the plants and like someone else said they are responsible too for hitting the curb line once. I try to have about 3-4 hours of work for 1 crew. Thats enough work that they can go do the initial clearing and salting and then go back 1 time before the place opens to spot check the sites. Sometimes it doesnt work depending on timeing, but if youre starting at 2am they are done with the main route by 530 or 6 and through all the sites a second time by 730 or 8. On bigger storms thats when it also is helpful to have extra guys. If your getting like 6" of snow and are going to start at 2 am throw on a third guy to help out so your still on time.


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## bodaggin (Sep 23, 2011)

bristolturf;1452055 said:


> Thats a nice idea. As a few others have said even if you only need 1 crew of 2 for doing sidewalks you should have about 5 or 6 guys that want the work. Shovelers go quick. I started out the year with 10 shovelers and only needed 4-5 on a regular basis. I run two crews 1 of 2 and a second of 2-3 (stays on 1 site). Before the season even started I lost 2, and then throughout the season I lost another 3. I found 3 more guys but I tell you they come and go quickly. If you can find good ones that will stick around, ie a year round employee thats your best bet.
> 
> As far as routing, set up etc. I like the idea (in order of preference) of either A) cube vans B) Contractor Van or C) Truck/Enclosed Trailer. Keeping your sidewalk gear as dry as possible is very important. All of our spreaders are equiped with the weather covers, becasue if that inside gets a little wet the salt just stops flowing out of the spreader. If your salt is in the open then it gets snow covered and is harder to handle the bags, the salt sometimes gets wet which sucks, and you have to worry about weighing down your used bags.
> 
> ...


Good dialogue but I have to sneak back to my OP. When people refer to a sidewalk crew, they are obviously referring to sidewalk shovellers. But are they shoveling sidewalk only properties, or are they clearing the sidewalks on "plowable" properties to "cut" the snow out for the plow so the driver doesn't even have to get out? Or are they doing both of the above options?


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

Most of the sites we get its both plowing and sidewalks. However as you get into some bigger sites some places have a maintenance staff that will take care of the sidewalks on the site so you dont have too. We also do some places in which its only sidewalks, such as business in downtown areas where you dont have to do any plowing. Why if given the opportunity to do so would you say no to another customer (keeping in mind that they meet you target market, worth the money, etc)

As I read through some of the other posts I came up with a few other matters too that I believe should be addressed. 

The first. Some companies like to roll around with a shoveler in the plow truck. Personally I dont like that becasue it just seems like a lot of wasted time. You have a laborer that rides around not doing anything sometimes. If there arent many sidewalks then they are just sitting in the truck while hes plowing could be for 30 minutes or so not doing anything.

Secondly when I price my sidewalks I do a 0-.99" then 1-3.99" 4-7.99 " 8-11.99" and then 12" contract. Sidewalks are a completely different game then parking lots are becasue of them being concrete. Say we get like .5" of snow, I can just salt that off the parking lot. When I salted the sidewalks it melted off 75% of the snow but then I still had to go back spot shovel and then resalt the walks which was wasted time and material. Almost 90% of the time when the snow accumulates on the sidewalks and its under 1" I just scrap it clean and then salt. Thats where having those bigger pusher shovels is handy. You can charge a small amount but it gets them cleaner, limits your product usage, saves time in the long run, and it will keep your customers building cleaner because there wont be a bunch of salt sitting on the sidewalks that didnt dissolve and it will keep the customers employees, customers, etc safer becsaue there wont be as high of a potential for slick spots and so much salt on the sidewalks that they may slip, becasue its been noted that over salting can actually cause someone to slip as well.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

mdb landscaping;1451968 said:


> We got the idea off of our hydroseeder. This is not our truck, but we have the same valve on ours. If you need to shut off water flow before the pump, you just push the spade type vavle straight down to stop water flow. Same concept, but just turn it sideways instead.


You have some very nice equipment. These gates will work really well and they're cheap. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=51506&cat=1,42401,62597


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Longae29;1451560 said:


> We only have a few sidewalks only properties, mainly they are working on properties where plowing is also done, we make it the sidewalk guys responsibility to make sure the walks and bottom side of curbs are cleared so the plower will be able to fully clear the fronts of buildings/ infront of garages at condos.


i answered this earlier in the thread......


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

nice setup...seems this year the kids have excuses when it comes time to do sidewalks....in the end the 2 oldest crew members end up doing the finishing of sidewalks..lol...although being a slow year it helps the paycheck!


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## SDLandscapes VT (Dec 17, 2008)

no one has w/b rotary brooms??


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Great lookin company..

Sidewalk crews- keep it simple... When snow flys here, if you get on C. List there are tons of ads for sidewalk help.. for $11-$15 an hour you can find guys who will use there own car/truck and own shovel and hit your route.

I had my older drunk brother do mine for years, he had a van 2 blowers and i paid $20 an hour, he left me high and dry on a patio this past season so were are not talking. So i put a helper in each truck this year for walks. Bigger storms i was planning on putting a side walk crew together. But it never snowed


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

a few things. A I wouldnt advise having sidewalk guys using their own vehicles unless you have a provision in your insurance policy that states employees who you their own vehicle for work are covered under your policy. Which if your switching guys every so often when it snows its going to be tough because you have to call in these employes vehicle informartion to your insurance agent . 

If they arent and they get in an accident or something on your site, your just asking for trouble. Probably put your right out of business.

I do agree with him to keep the sidewalk crews simple. And with the company I am working for and a company like ea quinn/longae where we are bigger and have multiple sidewalk cres we are keeping it simple. You need to make sure to give your crews the tools to complete the jobs. Until you are doing it a few times you wont see. 

I normally plow and run a salter, but on one storm out of my 8 guys only 2 were availalbe right away. 1 wasnt going to be able to come in until about 3 hours later becasue of an appointment. The others were making plans with their gf, one was out with an injury, two suddenly had to work for the week at their regular job, and 1 quit. So I had to do some sidewalk work. I just put a shovel and spreader and a few bags on my truck and went to town. I hated that my salt was in the open and it was only like a 1.5 inch storm and all we had were scoop style shovles and clearing the walks took longer than it should have. The spreader we had was garbage 3-hole style spreaders that didnt dispense salt good and when it did it went 6 feet in either direction in the grass and the plant beds.


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## mdb landscaping (Sep 29, 2000)

SDLandscapes VT;1452203 said:


> no one has w/b rotary brooms??


We don't utilize the walk behind brooms because most of them are just too slow. We do however on two different sites utilize machine mounted brooms. Heres a picture of one of them on our toolcat. The other broom is on a t190.


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## perrysee (Jul 30, 2009)

i too do mostly sidewalks and many small high end residential accounts .found out can make just as much as running 3 plow trucks without the headaches of getting all done. plus very few repairs if have right equipement.


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## Schuley (Jul 22, 2009)

bodaggin;1452115 said:


> Good dialogue but I have to sneak back to my OP. When people refer to a sidewalk crew, they are obviously referring to sidewalk shovellers. But are they shoveling sidewalk only properties, or are they clearing the sidewalks on "plowable" properties to "cut" the snow out for the plow so the driver doesn't even have to get out? Or are they doing both of the above options?


I'm not sure if you have the answer you are looking for, but our guys do both. We have on our rout a mixture of sidewalk only sites, as well as parking lots with sidewalks. Our sidewalk crew works down the route list doing both types of sites. I don't have the plow guys shovel because we have a lot of parking lot to clear every snowfall, every minute they are not plowing (shoveling), then there is no plowing getting done. Sidewalks are sidewalks. All the same to the sidewalk crews, doesnt matter if its a sidewalk only site or not. One thing we like to do is work in conjunction with our plowers, some sites have no other place to throw the snow other than the lot. While the guys are plowing the lot the sidewalk guys are clearing walks and cleaning up edges. If there is a sidewalk only site next, they hit that one while the plow guys keep plowing other sites. They are equipped with all the equipment needed to be self sufficient from the plow guys if needed. Sidewalk maching with multiple attachments (ventrac) single stage toro's, and a variety of shovels for varrying conditions and sites. My 2-3 man crew can knock out 15-17 sites per hour on a 1-4" snowfall. Ranges from Small resi properties to sites with 3000' of walks.


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## ProLawn Outdoor (Dec 15, 2008)

Half of our accounts are strictly sidewalk accounts, I will chime in. Much good advice has already been given, but I will make a few comments.
Sidewalks suck. Period. Workers know this, as someone said have back up guys on hand, no one likes doing this and it seems good guys are hard to find. Keep back ups on hand!
Have the right tools! Keep extra blowers on hand, toro single stages are great but they do break A LOT with commercial use. Two stages are a must for bigger storms. Make sure they have both pushers and scoop shovels.
People have a higher standard with walks and expect them to be very well done. Shoveled all the way to the edges, scraped to the concrete, and salted evenly.
The only benefit i have found: It seems accounts with lots of sidewalk work are easy to get. I'm talking the inner city residential stuff where it is more sidewalks and not much of a driveway at all. People have no problem paying more to have a QUALITY job done. I have yet to run across a price shopper like I have in the suburbs with easy 2 car driveways that take 2 minutes to plow.
Whatever you do, DON'T underbid sidewalk work and be very careful doing seasonal contracts for sidewalks. They can require a lot of extra labor, especially in a big storm. A crew with two guys may need 4-5 guys. Be prepared for the worse when doing sidewalks.


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## BOSS LAWN (Nov 6, 2011)

I was looking into a sidewalk crew, this is a great set up!


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## bodaggin (Sep 23, 2011)

I just realize that last night. And sidewalk only jobs (the inner city type that you speak of) with street parking and a back alley garage, those are the worst. Snowblowers won't fit in there so it's just labour labour labour, and you get paid less. There has to be a way to structure a profitable business model around this. I use a leaf blower most of the time because of the blood unevenness of the walkways and I can blast through a foot of snow with it, but not if it's hard drifted and fine packed. These properties are a time and profit eater.

Any ideas on a solution to either get faster or avoid this profit eater? I'm thinking about straight up turning the properties down, or subbing them to a student, or somehow getting them out of my responsibility. I've worked the numbers, and because of the speed that the cookie cutter 2 car drivepads can be done; I can 1.5x the houses per hour, not burn workers out, and basically double the profit by only doing those.

Any ideas for a workaround?


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## ProLawn Outdoor (Dec 15, 2008)

bodaggin;1458890 said:


> I just realize that last night. And sidewalk only jobs (the inner city type that you speak of) with street parking and a back alley garage, those are the worst. Snowblowers won't fit in there so it's just labour labour labour, and you get paid less. There has to be a way to structure a profitable business model around this. I use a leaf blower most of the time because of the blood unevenness of the walkways and I can blast through a foot of snow with it, but not if it's hard drifted and fine packed. These properties are a time and profit eater.
> 
> Any ideas on a solution to either get faster or avoid this profit eater? I'm thinking about straight up turning the properties down, or subbing them to a student, or somehow getting them out of my responsibility. I've worked the numbers, and because of the speed that the cookie cutter 2 car drivepads can be done; I can 1.5x the houses per hour, not burn workers out, and basically double the profit by only doing those.
> 
> Any ideas for a workaround?


I know what you mean they can be a time and profit eater. We can snow blow 90% of the property most of the time, not sure of the ones that you are doing. You have to bid these much higher than a normal suburban residence. I have mine decently priced this year, but will be raising next year. If I can get into commercial work that I want, primarily hoa's, I will get rid of a lot of these. The only way to make money on these is to get good prices.

But I'd say either get set up with good blowers, shovels, spreaders, and labor and go after this market, or don't do them at all. Our sidewalk crew is set-up to do these places, we can average 5-7/hour of these properties with 1-4" of snow. If you just have a few of these places and the rest of your properties mostly plowing properties, forget it. Your wasting your time.


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## diesellandscape (Jul 17, 2009)

I have 2 side walks crews and i will be changing things next year...
The best way for us is....

Each Large Site:
1) Plow Truck With Spreader
2) Skid loader with snow pusher
3) 1 Sidewalk labor to hand walks, fire exits, and cart returns

Small Close Group Lots:\
1) Plow Truck with Salter
2) One Sidewalk labor

Right now its too hard to monitor them when it snows, Plus sticking groups of dummies together with no real supervision is just too risky for me. I dont think im getting the production and quality that im looking for. Having Supervision for each site (even the small ones) is the only way to be productive.


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## bodaggin (Sep 23, 2011)

ProLawn Outdoor;1459088 said:


> I know what you mean they can be a time and profit eater. We can snow blow 90% of the property most of the time, not sure of the ones that you are doing. You have to bid these much higher than a normal suburban residence. I have mine decently priced this year, but will be raising next year. If I can get into commercial work that I want, primarily hoa's, I will get rid of a lot of these. The only way to make money on these is to get good prices.
> 
> But I'd say either get set up with good blowers, shovels, spreaders, and labor and go after this market, or don't do them at all. Our sidewalk crew is set-up to do these places, we can average 5-7/hour of these properties with 1-4" of snow. If you just have a few of these places and the rest of your properties mostly plowing properties, forget it. Your wasting your time.


Higher pricing is definitely the obvious one. I was hoping for a more creative answer! But you are very much correct. Thanks!


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## cmarks7815 (Aug 15, 2012)

I am new to the business and will be quoting sidewalk snow removal. Would you share your pricing with me. I am in Des Moines, Iowa and the work is for properties under the control of the DOT. Not sure if the properties will be vacant buildings that the DOT owns or what. I was just told we would probably only need snow blower. 

Thanks for your help

Curtis


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