# End loader vs trucks



## lrwilson27 (Mar 3, 2014)

Currently seeking information on profuctivity on end loaders. Looking at John Deere 244/344. 10-12 for box. I’m looking to cut down on labor and eliminate a few trucks with the purchase of an end loader. Just wondering if anyone has experience with these.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

lrwilson27 said:


> Currently seeking information on profuctivity on end loaders. Looking at John Deere 244/344. 10-12 for box. I'm looking to cut down on labor and eliminate a few trucks with the purchase of an end loader. Just wondering if anyone has experience with these.


Probably replace a couple trucks with that setup... I think rumor on here had 16' box and machine replacing four or five trucks...


----------



## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Depends on what you are plowing and what you are pushing (blade or box) and the truck you compare it too.

The real hot deal is a Metalpless/HLA type plow - it can be a blade or a box - it can be huge for little snowfalls or smaller for heavier snowfalls. Get a controller that allows you to work without much brain power and you have a long life plowing machine.


----------



## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Probably replace a couple trucks with that setup... I think rumor on here had 16' box and machine replacing four or five trucks...


Bull**** - sorry but that ain't true. There are so many variables......


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

framer1901 said:


> Bull**** - sorry but that ain't true. There are so many variables......


It ain't? Understood... That's why I'm guessing it says rumor...


----------



## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Ajlawn1 said:


> It ain't? Understood... That's why I'm guessing it says rumor...


Here's a few things:

Loaders are slow - driving between lots, driving in lots. Visibility in a loader is amazing......

A pickup with a 16' backblade, a marginal operator and a two inch snowfall - they can be pretty close in a open parking lot.

Pusher boxes have their place but articulationg plows can be both a plow and box.

I have a ten year old loader with a 16' Danials - I can plow even with a great operator with a back blade in an open lot - light snow. I beat him with heavy snow though. Those 244's and I think the 344's are even slower than mine.

When you get lots of snow, they shine. For long term owning, there's no comparison.

There's no cut and dry comparison - you have to look at applications.


----------



## lrwilson27 (Mar 3, 2014)

Most of my lots are very close together and I already have a skid loader with a box and snow bucket that could be left on sight with the few outlier accounts I have. I would like to only keep one truck with a v blade. I actually have been looking at a snow wolf plow/box set up for a loader. Max travel time inbetween sights for a loader would be 10-15 minutes.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

framer1901 said:


> Here's a few things:
> 
> Loaders are slow - driving between lots, driving in lots. Visibility in a loader is amazing......
> 
> ...


I'm sure in a wide open lot a truck or two can compete quickly wind rowing and then having to deal with the mess... But that is the model for most box stores... Actual plazas are littered with islands and many other obstacles and a 344 with a 12' box would be done and home while a couple trucks are still out jacking around...

I'll take a machine over trucks any day to shine and be prepared to shine when a big one hits... I'm sure that back blade becomes useless after much more then a couple inches...


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

How many loaders are you wanting to buy to replace a “few” trucks?


----------



## lrwilson27 (Mar 3, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> How many loaders are you wanting to buy to replace a "few" trucks?


Would like to buy one loader to replace 2 trucks. Possibly 3 trucks.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Doesn’t seem out of the question to be feasible. Post some screenshots of the accounts you’re thinking about switching.


----------



## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

lrwilson27 said:


> Currently seeking information on profuctivity on end loaders. Looking at John Deere 244/344. 10-12 for box. I'm looking to cut down on labor and eliminate a few trucks with the purchase of an end loader. Just wondering if anyone has experience with these.


Depending on the lot, the operator and other variables a loader is approximately 3 times as productive as a truck.
A truck working together with a loader, properly trained can be four times as productive as two trucks.

Example... I've seen four trucks on two lots next to eachother (a cabelas and a target) 
Takes four trucks four hours.
16 vehicle hours.

I've done it with a loader and myself in a truck in 3 hours
That's 6 vehicle hours. 
I've seen a single loader do it in 9 hours...

There's going to be a variable from storm to storm (icy? Fluffy, slushy?) and from operator to operator as well...

In my opinion a truck working with a loader is the best.

I have another lot (a really big church) where the loader can do it in the same time as if it has help with the truck... (30 minutes with truck and loader and an hour with the loader alone) so if there isn't any tricky small back drag areas .. a pick up won't help.

That same lot has taken three trucks an hour before.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

framer1901 said:


> Bull**** - sorry but that ain't true. There are so many variables......


 Can you stack with the truck? Can you load dumps with a truck? Can plow a entrance with a 5' windrow from a minci left? I'll take the loader the hell with the variables.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

lrwilson27 said:


> Would like to buy one loader to replace 2 trucks. Possibly 3 trucks.


3 trucks is stretching it with that size loader.

It does have quite a bit to do with the layout of the lots though. That size loader is infinitely more maneuverable than a truck and will blow away a truck on a lot that has a lot of obstacles. It also will do better with heavier snowfalls.

framer1901 is correct on type of plows though.


----------



## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

If I did this again from the beginning, I'd own one truck with front and back blades to drag docks and clean up after late snow shovelers.

I'd own all loaders period - I'm not convinced on the size yet, but all loaders.

We had a 344 one year on rent, it seemed awkward for what we were doing. I think a 244 is too slow probably and too light for where we work. 444/WA200/Lxx size is great overall, but I'm biased.

But now, I'm trying to figure out, do we stay with the Panga boat style or go to a mid 30' center console??? Choices.........


----------



## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

My new office - 15 days and don't give 2 snaps what's in the forecast


----------



## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

framer1901 said:


> If I did this again from the beginning, I'd own one truck with front and back blades to drag docks and clean up after late snow shovelers.
> 
> I'd own all loaders period - I'm not convinced on the size yet, but all loaders.
> 
> ...


Easy...center console


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

framer1901 said:


> My new office - 15 days and don't give 2 snaps what's in the forecast
> 
> View attachment 191232


Sure you do, you don't want any hurricanes down there do you?


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Center console for sure.


----------



## Lone Wolf Ent (Oct 18, 2006)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I'm sure in a wide open lot a truck or two can compete quickly wind rowing and then having to deal with the mess... But that is the model for most box stores... Actual plazas are littered with islands and many other obstacles and a 344 with a 12' box would be done and home while a couple trucks are still out jacking around...
> 
> I'll take a machine over trucks any day to shine and be prepared to shine when a big one hits... I'm sure that back blade becomes useless after much more then a couple inches...


I'll agree. We keep 1 pickup to trim for 1 or 2 loaders or a skid with SnoWolf Quatro. Prefer the Quatro to pickups, less maintenance, and issues. More productively. I don't see buying any more plow trucks. J


----------



## CowboysLC_DE (Aug 17, 2013)

The other variable is, will your one truck be able to salt all of your properties? Or do you have a second truck that is salt only? (or at least focused on salting with minimal plowing)


----------

