# rubber chains



## trickenicke (Nov 17, 2005)

http://www.weaversinfo.com/price sheets/tire chains/rubber_tire_chains.htm

http://cgi.ebay.com/20-x10-00x8-RUB...ryZ50377QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

i need something like this because my regular chains scratched my driveway and other peoples

anybody think those would work ? any body have them?

thanks

nick


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## CrazyCooter (Jan 29, 2005)

They look like they would be about as useful as teflon tire chains.


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## trickenicke (Nov 17, 2005)

why do u think?


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## CrazyCooter (Jan 29, 2005)

They are rubber, flat, with no grip or sipes, etc.
If people compain about scratching up the pavement by clearing it, they should:
1) Move to Florida
2) Rip up the tar and go back to dirt
3) Buy some sealant in the spring and re-seal it so they don't have to look at ugly scrapey marks on their nice black pavement.

Come on, it's winter. Deal, people, deal. Or charge them enough them you;d normally charge them to sealcoat their driveway in the summer for free 



trickenicke said:


> why do u think?


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

Try the wheel weights suggestion made in your other post about this, especially since we're talking about a garden tractor, not a truck which your first answer should be snow tires.


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## Mowerpan (Jan 31, 2005)

Ya those are useless. If you can't run chains, go get some nice n meaty atv tires.


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## Tommy10plows (Jan 1, 2001)

*chains*

Chains don't ruin driveways, over agressive drivers do. Your problem is you are using the wrong gears to start off, then applying too much power to beef your torque range up so that the truck pushes the weight with high RPM torque. That high engine RPM causes 'scratching" by your chains.

What you need to do is to drop down into a lower gear, USE YOUR LOW RANGE on the transfer case, so that the gears do the work for you and not the chains tearing up the driveway. That way your engine RPM's will be up, but your ground speed will be low and you will have gobs of torque to push snow.

I plow the steepest drives in my town, I chain the front axles always on those driveways, if it is really bad I will chain all four. I have written extensively on how to choose, mount and use chains in the commercial forum. Do a search under my name and "chains" for postings and that will help you.

There is no need to damage a driveway when you have chains on your truck. You just need the right gearing, Go slowly, and you will have no problems when you make your opening cuts. Chans don't make you a cowboy, they make you safe if used properly.

Plan your route to group those drives where you will need the chains, then take them off where you don't need them. You can quickly install and remove them if you follow my guidelines.


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## CrazyCooter (Jan 29, 2005)

Tommy10plows said:


> Chains don't ruin driveways, over agressive drivers do. Your problem is you are using the wrong gears to start off, then applying too much power to beef your torque range up so that the truck pushes the weight with high RPM torque. That high engine RPM causes 'scratching" by your chains.
> 
> What you need to do is to drop down into a lower gear, USE YOUR LOW RANGE on the transfer case, so that the gears do the work for you and not the chains tearing up the driveway. That way your engine RPM's will be up, but your ground speed will be low and you will have gobs of torque to push snow.
> 
> ...


Tommy,

He's looking for info on ones for a snowblower, not a truck, but good advice nonetheless.


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## bluejeep (Dec 1, 2005)

Go to costco.com and look in the auto section


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## trickenicke (Nov 17, 2005)

yeah tommy that was good advice but this on a garden tractor that is manual but u have to be totaly stoped to shift(gay) but would you know what to do with a tractor?


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

trickenicke said:


> yeah tommy that was good advice but this on a garden tractor that is manual but u have to be totaly stoped to shift(gay) but would you know what to do with a tractor?


Tractors, garden or otherwise, are designed for continuous operation at a single speed- shifting like a car is useless to them- you simply don't.

They pull harrows, plows, seeders, etc at fixed speeds. They even mow grass at a fixed speed. If you were able to shift a tractor like a car it would prove unnecessary and costly since the transmissions would be more expensive due to having to be syncronised.

start of in the gear you need for the conditions- plowing snow means low gear no matter how you cut it.


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## rubbertirechain (Feb 4, 2011)

These chains can also be purchased here:
RubberTireChains.com

Most people are critical of these chains - and the common analysis is that they have no "bight." They are not intended to create traction by "bighting" into the snow, ice, or your driveway. They create traction the same way a snow tire does: by concentrating the weight of the machine on a smaller surface, which creates more friction and thus more traction.

By using rubber tire chains you're creating your own snow tires without having to purchase an extra set of tires. You can take them off in the spring and you're back to your regular tires.

These chains aren't for everyone, but we continue to get a lot of good feedback from the folks who have bought them. I would love to hear your honest opinion AFTER you've given them a try.

Cheers


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

Welcome.

Unfortunately I have to say it- if you live in snow country you NEED snow capable tires be it good snow rated all seasons or a separate snow set. Chains are a temporary solution, not a season long one.

Also- you're assessment of how snow tires work is incorrect. Most people, well, plow drivers, choose a smaller width tire in snow to concentrate the weight however the real reason a snow tire performs like it does is:
The Rubber compound- winter time means colder temps so the rubber that grabs well in warm does not work as well in the cold thus the rubber compound in the tire is a different blend to allow better grip in the cold. The addition of more Silica also improves grip of the rubber in the cold and more importantly in the wet.
The Tread pattern - water, sand, Mud, and snow all behave differently and the tread pattern on the tire is designed to effectively displace one or more of those contaminants from the driving surface to allow the tread to reach the base with traction. Snow and mud often behave similar so some Mud tires will work ok in some snow. 
Siping - tires are siped (the thin grooves in the tread) to give biting edges - in poor conditions like wet weather and ice it's the biting edges that have traction, not the blocks. Sipes will collect sand and will cause more heat in the rubber thus shortening the tire life so they are not used as much in summer tires, but you do see siping to move water in tire tread patterns.

A quick loot at any real snow tire - like a Blizzak for example, will show all of the above versus an all season.

All the applications you show on your website show lawn.garden tires- which are essentially flat and barely treaded - your tire chains will lie flat and, following you're above, concentrate weight which will let them sink a little deeper in the snow to the surface below and give traction.
Here's what is REALLY happening- being only sliced up conveyor belting with smooth surfaces you're relying on a smooth surface to provide friction - the smooth surface has no siping to let the water under it go anywhere, and only 1 biting edge. What really is providing the traction in those situations is the single biting edge scraping into the surface trying to get a grip. Examine what Slicks do on water - this is what the rest of the cross link is doing - nothing.

Try a different texture on the cross links for better performance and above all else not only learn how your competition works (snow tires and chain/cable tire chains) but how your own product actually works. If you don't know both of those you can't improve on a product, be it someone else's or your own.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

Wow--old thread.

FWIW, I run conventional chains on my personal lawn tractor/blower...










Yes, they do scratch and claw--especially when backing up the sloped driveway...(note the angle of my pickup in the circle--the straight (not shown) is equally steep).










It's a little annoying, but a small price to pay for the ease of which I can move ridiculous amount of snow. They also work poorly on dry pavement, which rubber would clearly have an advantage. I have seen these rubber chains, and they are of interest--but frankly they're just too pricey. My chains were $40, and the 3X cost seems a bit much to me for something that I don't know will work well. I know rubber has its limits (ie: ice), but it's all the other conditions that concern me.

HOWEVER, I would be happy to do a little "study" (in the interest of professional contractors, of course) of the plausibility of these new-fangled rubber chains, and report my findings to the board. Send me a set, and I'll wait for our next big snow.


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## stargazer (Nov 22, 2008)

Rubber cannot bite into ice, period. Even my full size 9000 lb 70 HP 4WD tractor with huge agricultural ribs you can climb like a ladder cannot bite into ice and will slip like crazy.


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## rubbertirechain (Feb 4, 2011)

I appreciate the honest input.

I got involved with these chains several years ago solely because of my involvement in developing the website. I was skeptical at first, but the amount of positive feedback and return customers has lead me to believe that there is a market for these. They are getting the job done for many folks without tearing up their driveways. They are also being used (with positive results) on forklifts and aircraft tugs that have to come inside and drive on a finished floor.

We will continue to look for ways to improve and see if we can implement some of the suggestions given here (eg textured surface instead of smooth).

We are relatively new to the market. These chains have been in production since the late 80's but have never been marketed on a large scale. We're working on getting the word out a bit more - hence the involvement with plowsite. 

I continue to welcome your feedback and - yes, maybe we will recruite some independent study platforms in the future.


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## stargazer (Nov 22, 2008)

rubbertirechain;1250624 said:


> We will continue to look for ways to improve and see if we can implement some of the suggestions given here (eg textured surface instead of smooth).
> 
> I continue to welcome your feedback and - yes, maybe we will recruite some independent study platforms in the future.


Add studs, or mix in some kind of carbide grit.


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

rubbertirechain;1250624 said:


> I appreciate the honest input.
> 
> I got involved with these chains several years ago solely because of my involvement in developing the website. I was skeptical at first, but the amount of positive feedback and return customers has lead me to believe that there is a market for these. They are getting the job done for many folks without tearing up their driveways. They are also being used (with positive results) on forklifts and aircraft tugs that have to come inside and drive on a finished floor.
> 
> ...


Send me a set, I'll give a review!


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## stargazer (Nov 22, 2008)

Holland;1250687 said:


> Send me a set, I'll give a review!


Buy your own set, then we can expect and honest, unbiased review.


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

Studs or carbide would negate much of the benifit they are working on selling with the rubber.
These need to be made from something like snow tracks for Skid Steers to be effective for a wider consumer base, or maybe layers of conveyor with the ends out to give some kind of siping.
Incidentally, fork lifts and aircraft tugs generally have solid rubber slicks which would have zero traction in the snow. Those kinds of vehicle generally have those tires because with the weight they move the tires needed so that the tread would not compress and make for dangerous conditions would be incredibly cost prohibitive to manufacture and sell.


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

stargazer;1250915 said:


> Buy your own set, then we can expect and honest, unbiased review.


If i bought them i'd have to give them a good review or id look like a fool for buying them!:laughing:


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## rubbertirechain (Feb 4, 2011)

Bear in mind that we are not trying to necessarily do a BETTER job than conventional steel chains. If we can manage to do AS GOOD AS conventional chains we have a marketable product because with our chains you will have significantly less damage on your driveway (or shop or hangar floor) and in the end save money - or at least have a nicer-looking driveway. If we can do better than steel chains, that's a bonus. So far, customer reviews are saying they do as well as or better than steel chains in most conditions - with the possible exception of deap wet snow.

Our niche has been small lawn and garden tracters with turf tires as well as other smooth-tired machines (forklifts, tugs, etc). We do not have a goal of creating a miracle chain that will go anywhere on any machine and out-perform every other traction device. I'm sure with some additional improvements we will be able to get them to perform even better. We shall see...


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

See i would see this as more of a snow chain. I just really dont see how they can bite into ice. Then again you really havent mentioned ice either and may not be marketing it as such. If thats the case then i see how this product could perform well. But if your trying to keep up with a set of chains with ice cutters, then i'm going to have to see proof!


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## rubbertirechain (Feb 4, 2011)

Holland;1251145 said:


> See i would see this as more of a snow chain. I just really dont see how they can bite into ice. Then again you really havent mentioned ice either and may not be marketing it as such. If thats the case then i see how this product could perform well. But if your trying to keep up with a set of chains with ice cutters, then i'm going to have to see proof!


You have the right idea. They certainly won't bite into ice like ice cutters. Any additional traction you get on ice will simply be a result of the front of the bar digging in a bit and the concentrated weight of the vehicle on the bar possibly giving you a little more traction (Although the weight theory has been contended on this thread. I'll let you decide). Of course, it's not very often that you're going to be driving on a pure sheet of ice. Usually it's a rough snow/ice combination - at least in these parts.

We'll see if we can get some good objective tests done on ice with rubber chains vs conventional. Sadly, the worst of our winter here is already winding down. I doubt we'll be able to do too much more before next season.


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## hedhunter9 (Nov 15, 2008)

Ok, here is a little interesting (or not) little tidbit of info.

We have raced Motorcycles on Ice for years. (over 30 years)
We have run the screw class. and run the sidecar class which runs
rubber tires. (they now allow screws in the front tire only, but nothing in the rear 
or sidecar.)
When we first started, we just used whatever was laying around.
Then we started cutting up tires. We took old hacksaw blades, ground the
set off and put thousands of slits across the tire. 
This worked pretty well, and guys with the cuts smoked non-cut tires bikes.
Knobby tires worked better than smoother street tires.

Later, we built some "Tractionizer machines.)
These were 2 roller drums with hundreds of tacks sticking outward mounted on
bearings.
We would put the bike up on the "tractionizer" Tie it down with chains.
Start the bike up and run it up thru 4-5 gears and open up the throttle.
pretty soon smoke is rolling off the tire.
When done, it has thousands of little tiny pcs of holes, rubber edges.
This tire grabs on the "ICE" much much better.. You will "Smoke" anyone
that doesnt have his tire done......

Of course, we dont give all our secrets away. But for many, many years our family
has been consistant winners in these class's. My Dad at 76 years young still manages 
a win now and then, and is always near the front. My younger brother has been a consistant winner for years. And years ago, when I was still racing that class, I went a
whole season and never lost a race.... Set up and the tires did it....

Of course, adding screws to the tires give much better traction So much more that
you can easily "wheely" on the ice in the 2 wheel class. Lay it over all the way and
dirt track thru the corners if ya want. 
(dont work well on cement though. You will fall down, and they tear up cement bad)


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