# F450 vs Dodge 4500



## Mabepossibly (Dec 12, 2010)

Im heading up a committee to find a suitable replacement for my Vol Ambulance Squads ageing Freightliner. We have a 97 FL60 chassis thats a pile of garbage. I shouldnt say garbage, but its the wrong chassis for an Ambulance. Its slow as dog, and bouncy to ride in. We also have a 09 E450 with the 6.0 diesel. But diesels are no longer available in the E chassis

I come to this form looking for some objective information on the F450 and the Dodge 4500. You guys are always on top of it technically and peoole on EMS forums know crap about mechanics. What are your opinions on these chassises for an emergency rig?

My preference is for any of them to be 4x4, have a Cadillac ride and be reliable as the sun with mininal upkeep.


----------



## ShaneysLawnCare (Oct 17, 2011)

If you guys are going BRAND new, both are incredible truck chasis', if fuel mileage is a factor at all the Ford will be better then the Dodge, replacement parts for normal wear are about the same price for either one. Ride quality is going to be about the same, 4x4 systems the Ford you should (don't quote me) should have an available rear differential locker in it. The locking front hubs is also a nice feature when you need true 4x4 demands. Our fleet consisting of 2007 F350 (6.0PSD), 2011 F250 (6.2 gasser), and the 2012 (6.7PSD) are all rock solid trucks never had any other parts other than normal wear go bad on them, but also I hang Boss V-XT 9'2" plows with the wing kits on them. if you do your own maintenance these new trucks are next to impossible with out any knowledge. Also these trucks are doing nothing but improving on the previous models. My father used to manage a fleet of 3 ambulances, before he switched positions. So I called him this evening for a little more in-site on this question he told me that in the truck chasis' they are almost identical ride to the E series.
Hope this helps ask any other questions you may have!


----------



## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

The county I work in just switched to Chevy 4500 Dmax's for ambulances. They had Ford before and I saw them on the back of roll backs more than I saw them driving around.


----------



## GSS LLC (Jul 7, 2012)

dodge has the better powertrain. its just how it is. no ifs ands or buts about that. i own an auto repair shop. im a chevy guy, but when it comes to diesels. i bought a dodge. because no one can touch them,.


----------



## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

we have all three trucks that you ask about as amblances used in fire dept operations. We have two frieghtliners as you talk about the problem we have also seen the ride problems but for the trucks holding up they are the way to go.Fire dept Call volume 4000 calls per year 1 is 12 years old the other is 5 years old. My vol dept has an 2000 f550 4x4 6.0 motor. This truck has had all the 6.0 problems. with lots of front end work to be honest it had more front end work than my plow trucks. I think it's all due to the air ride in the rear.Air ride in the rear has been the biggest problem i'm not 100 percent on the gvw is the same as ford as they claim. It also eats tires. After the ford not working out do to excessive down time. The newest is a 2011 dodge 4500 the first lifeline built on a dodge. The truck has been good so far. The biggest down fall is the brakes. do to all the diffrent drivers it eats brakes and they make so much noise after time they just get changed to stop the noise. Dodge is unable to fix it at this time. it also has air ride again it's weak point with broken links. Overall i like the dodge the best but it's still new. If you want more info feel free to pm me with your contact info to call and talk
shawn


----------



## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

if you do your own maintenance these new trucks are next to impossible with out any knowledge.

This is an incredible understatement !!! I have no idea what is going on under the hood of my truck !!!


----------



## wewille (Jan 20, 2009)

GSS LLC;1482450 said:


> dodge has the better powertrain. its just how it is. no ifs ands or buts about that. i own an auto repair shop. im a chevy guy, but when it comes to diesels. i bought a dodge. because no one can touch them,.


hahahahahahahahahahah your funny.

To the original poster either one would be great. Both are using selective catalyst reduction systems. So for both you would need use exhaust fluid, and i believe fuel economy should be similar. Buy the one with a better deal spend tax dollars wisely!

There is an ambulance company in Madison WI that has been buying new E-Series with V10's and they have been great. So I wouldn't count the e-series out yet if you guys liked them in the past. Ambulances are no longer required to be diesel powered.


----------



## 90plow (Dec 22, 2001)

Dodge does not use def... Still has the dpf.


----------



## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

wewille;1482712 said:


> Ambulances are no longer required to be diesel powered.


Any idea why it was a requirement at one point and why it no longer is? Always been something ive wondered about!


----------



## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

KKK specs say's nothing about fuel gas or diesel. The only mention is you can only have one source of fuel on board. That means no gas can or power tools that have fuel store separate from the fuel tank of the truck.


----------



## Mabepossibly (Dec 12, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback. Would anyone pick a V10 gas over a diesel for a severe service vehicle with the plan to keep it for 150k?


----------



## [email protected] (May 29, 2009)

If the Ford is good enough for this









Should be good enough as an ambulance


----------



## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Mabepossibly;1483057 said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Would anyone pick a V10 gas over a diesel for a severe service vehicle with the plan to keep it for 150k?


AMR in my area has cars with the V10 just getting to 100,000 miles. they have had not as many problems with them as the fords with 6.0 motors. The crews don't care but they get filled after every shift as compared to every 24 hours with the diesels. After 100,000 miles in an emergency truck it should be replaced and moved to spare status. Those are pretty hard miles.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

wewille;1482712 said:


> hahahahahahahahahahah your funny.
> 
> To the original poster either one would be great. Both are using selective catalyst reduction systems. So for both you would need use exhaust fluid, and i believe fuel economy should be similar. Buy the one with a better deal spend tax dollars wisely!
> 
> There is an ambulance company in Madison WI that has been buying new E-Series with V10's and they have been great. So I wouldn't count the e-series out yet if you guys liked them in the past. Ambulances are no longer required to be diesel powered.





90plow;1482745 said:


> Dodge does not use def... Still has the dpf.


From what I have been hearing, DEF will be being deleted from the ambulance package trucks. To many problems with it.


----------



## 90plow (Dec 22, 2001)

How could they eliminate it the truck wont run without it.


----------



## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

They have a version of the motor used overseas by the US goverment. The change is for fire apparatus only. there have been to many times trucks have shut down due to regen during structure fires. How about that fighting a fire and you lose water because the truck needs to run cleaner!


----------



## 04f250fisher (Sep 13, 2008)

A town near by is running all dodge 4500's havent had a problem believe they have 4 of them.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

90plow;1483123 said:


> How could they eliminate it the truck wont run without it.


Just like everything else with the modern trucks, it is all tuning. Give it time, someone will figure out how to tune it out of the comsumer grade trucks.


----------



## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

90plow;1483123 said:


> How could they eliminate it the truck wont run without it.


The hell they won't. Before 99% of the general public was buying the new trucks equip with the DEF Fluid the aftermarket already had tuners out which bypass the need for it and different exhaust to get rid of all the useless crap under the truck.

I know of plenty '11/12/13 trucks that are tuned and deleted, some never made it 200mi off the showroom floor before being modded. They run much better, smoother to drive, increased fuel mileage, and cheaper to run compared to being stock.


----------



## vegaman04 (Dec 12, 2007)

Mark13;1483957 said:


> The hell they won't. Before 99% of the general public was buying the new trucks equip with the DEF Fluid the aftermarket already had tuners out which bypass the need for it and different exhaust to get rid of all the useless crap under the truck.
> 
> I know of plenty '11/12/13 trucks that are tuned and deleted, some never made it 200mi off the showroom floor before being modded. They run much better, smoother to drive, increased fuel mileage, and cheaper to run compared to being stock.


Whats it cost to delete all this stuff? I would like to get a newer one but all the emissions stuff has pushed me away.


----------



## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

$930 for the pipe and tuner for a duramax


----------



## NoFearDeere (Nov 7, 2005)

We have a E450 here, I believe it is a 2011 model. Still has the 6.0 Powerstroke, but we havent had any problems. The ride is awesome with the 450 chassis, thats what your going to need if your looking for a smoother ride.


----------



## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

It amazes me how many guys come here because they don't know anything about their trucks! Why do you buy things you know nothing about?


----------



## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

wilsonsground;1483969 said:


> It amazes me how many guys come here because they don't know anything about their trucks! Why do you buy things you know nothing about?


Oh yeah travis, you're one to talk :laughing::laughing::waving::waving:


----------



## Mabepossibly (Dec 12, 2010)

Any opinions on the TerraStar?


----------



## wewille (Jan 20, 2009)

90plow;1482745 said:


> Dodge does not use def... Still has the dpf.


Dodge chassis cabs do use DEF. Pickups do not.

To the other question about diesel being required i believe it was because of engine fires with carburaters. Fuel injection has eliminated that issue.

To the op i would say any gas engine is going to be cheaper to maintain and will be more reliable than any new diesel. Ryan Brothers ambulance in Madison WI has been running E-450 with v-10s very succesfully...


----------



## wewille (Jan 20, 2009)

http://www.ryanbros.net/splash


----------



## NBI Lawn (Oct 15, 2007)

90plow;1482745 said:


> Dodge does not use def... Still has the dpf.


The 4500/5500 Dodges have def.

Dodge uses larger brakes, makes the same power but at a lower rpm, overhaul intervals are 100k longer than gm of Ford, standard exhaust brake. That all I can say for the Dodge, I know very little about the Fords. I do know the Ford diesel has something like 60% more moving parts.


----------



## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

vegaman04;1483962 said:


> Whats it cost to delete all this stuff? I would like to get a newer one but all the emissions stuff has pushed me away.


About $1,000 in parts/tuner and your warranty on a new $50,000 truck. Sad thing is, diesels were never meant to have all this crappy emissions stuff and they run a million times better without it.



NBI Lawn;1484961 said:


> The 4500/5500 Dodges have def.
> 
> Dodge uses larger brakes, makes the same power but at a lower rpm, overhaul intervals are 100k longer than gm of Ford, standard exhaust brake. That all I can say for the Dodge, I know very little about the Fords. I do know the Ford diesel has something like 60% more moving parts.


Correct, and it also uses a 6 speed AISIN Tranny with PTO, completely different front axle than the 2500/3500's, Cummins motor runs at full power even when DEF Fluid is low, tighter turning circle than the Ford, blah blah its all on their websites.

At the end of the day, either will be a great truck. On a commercial scale like an Ambulance, I'd trust the simplicity of the Cummins over Fords new Diesel though.


----------



## Nozzleman (Feb 6, 2003)

Mabepossibly;1484305 said:


> Any opinions on the TerraStar?


They seem to be catching on in my area. Boston EMS is using them as well as some other Departments locally. My department runs the bigger International's (4200's I think) and they have held up decent. We used to run the E-450's (7.3 liters) and they sucked. The engines were fine but we would destroy front end parts and transmissions at an alarming rate.

It appears the Terrastar is their to compete in the old GMC/Chevy 4500/5000 and current F450 and F550/Dodge 4500 and 5500 market. I suggest calling some departments that are running them. Your ambo dealer should have a list of recently sold units you could reference.


----------



## 91AK250 (Nov 28, 2007)

here locally they run 4x4 ford f-550s mostly diesels but i've been seeing more V10s. they have been running the super dutys since '99. some of the older ones i've seen were E series ford vans converted to 4x4. around here a 2wd ambulance would not make it too far in the winter.


----------



## BillyRgn (Jan 28, 2004)

I know nothing about ambulances but how about a sprinter ? I've seen more and more poping up with AMR. The only down side I would think is going from a fl60 (I'm guessing a larger box style) to a sprinter would be room but I don't know your dept requirements


----------



## southbronxems (Feb 26, 2011)

Check out the Dodges. NYC-EMS has gone to them, and so far people like them. I work there so I ve driven them, although Im still regularly in a Ford. I think so far they are good. Time will tell, NYC beats up its ambulances...


----------

