# Brine mixing tank



## Stratos200xl (Nov 28, 2018)

Hey guys new member here. I run a fairly large commercial landscape business and have been fortunate enough to step away from day to day operations and let my retired parents run it. I simply handle bidding and hi tech jobs when they pop up. I am also a project manager for a very large utility in my area of NC/SC and wouldn't you know they have handed me the landscape operations of a large nuclear plant lol.

I checked out their process today as they were getting brine and spreader equipment ready. We have 2 1650 gallon holding tanks for brine stored outside. The mix tanks each consist of a 200 gallon tank which is gravity fed from a 55 gallon drum with a 220v Electric pump. I have ordered them to organize their shop and questions was asked on space saving opportunities by eliminating the mix drums. I'm new to brine so I have done some research and all I have found is dual tank setups.

Is it possible to create 2 separate 300 gallon single mix tanks that completely mixes solution using 1 tank and then simply pump to the 1650 gallon storage tanks outside? Making 300 gallon batches with each tank for a total of 600 gallons. That would leave a dual setup incase 1 were to fail they can still mix 300 gallon batches and not be dead in the water. (We have a backup to a backup for everything in nuclear)

The shop is not heated so can I add a commercial hot water heater to speed the mixing up?

Their mix process is as follows:
-fill 55 gallon drum up until it gravity fills up the 200 gallon tank up with cold water.
- turn electric pump on which draws water from 200 gallon tank and pumps to 55 gallon drum.
-add a few bags at a time until so many pounds have been diluted in 200 gallons.

Has to be an easier way to speed the mix process up. These guys need to get spraying and brooming and not mixing small batches continuously all night. They work as a 8 man crew and are split 4 each shift during inclement weather periods with approximately 45 acres of paved surfaces to take care of.

Thanks


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Use a pump 
No gravity feed 
The slowest part is the water fill
If you’re using a garden hose you may be getting only 5 gal a minute 
If you need 200 gallons of water that’s 40 minutes just filling 

What are 4 guys doing?
That’s a one man job, making brine 

Not sure I fully understood your post?


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

45 acres of pavement will use 2300-3000 gallons of liquid per application 
So your holding tanks are only enough for one 

You’ve got a set up that I think takes about 90 minutes per 200 gallon batch 
That’s 24 man hours to make the next batch 

So one man 3 8 hour shifts 
A modest set up (nothing super industrial) is basically 300 gallons an hour (or ten man hours to make your one application.
That’s more than twice the production I think you’re at right now 

You can make it way faster with a fair budget/investment 
But assuming you don’t have a budget (or much of one) 
You could still more than double production 

Aloe hinges on how fast you can fill your mix tank


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## Stratos200xl (Nov 28, 2018)

tpendagast said:


> 45 acres of pavement will use 2300-3000 gallons of liquid per application
> So your holding tanks are only enough for one
> 
> You've got a set up that I think takes about 90 minutes per 200 gallon batch
> ...


Budget is not an issue really. Keep in mind we have 2 mix tank setups so a total of 400 gallons each batch. Fill hose is around 20 gallons/min. No hose pipes. I 200 gallon batch currently takes 30 mins start to finish. 4 man crew leaves 3 people spraying all walk paths, roads, parking lots, and sidewalks. That's a lot of work to leave 1 man dedicated to making brine. If I can make 600 gallons in shorter time and reduce from 2 200 gallon tanks and 2 55gal drums down to 2 300 or 400 gallon single tanks to save space then why not? Efficiency is key in my world and this setup seems silly.


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## Stratos200xl (Nov 28, 2018)

Also we have 3 separate areas that are not accessible from 1 to another without security support which is hard to do during off hours. Personnel parking/entrances, inside vehicle barrier system which is roads, walk paths, and company vehicle parking, and inside the protected area which is mostly walk paths, stairs, and roads. Also have to maintain numerous metal stairways with ice melt and blowers around site. Tons of work for a 4 man crew.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

magic double post some how 
Is there an echo in here?


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Stratos200xl said:


> Budget is not an issue really. Keep in mind we have 2 mix tank setups so a total of 400 gallons each batch. Fill hose is around 20 gallons/min. No hose pipes. I 200 gallon batch currently takes 30 mins start to finish. 4 man crew leaves 3 people spraying all walk paths, roads, parking lots, and sidewalks. That's a lot of work to leave 1 man dedicated to making brine. If I can make 600 gallons in shorter time and reduce from 2 200 gallon tanks and 2 55gal drums down to 2 300 or 400 gallon single tanks to save space then why not? Efficiency is key in my world and this setup seems silly.


Can't you get more storage tanks so that you make the brine when there's no storm
Use it during the storm 
Then make it again afterward?

Store maybe 5000 gallons?


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## Stratos200xl (Nov 28, 2018)

I could but I still have crap system taking up extra space and very inefficient. Regardless of when it's made I have a highly trained and expensive nuclear badged employee standing around making brine.


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

I think they can afford a commercial brine maker... Where is Homer.


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## acswaupaca1 (Jun 5, 2017)

Check out voight Smith innovation on YouTube and their website. There is also a post on here with 27 pages of brine information


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

To be honest your setup is way under done. By the way guys it’s a nuclear plant water is no concern!!! They blink the tanks are full. He even made mention of hot water so read between the lines. One thing I hate NEVER ORDER ANYONE TO DO SOMETHING!!! Ask them to do it

I would try using pool salt it’s fine batch’s are made very quick. Get more storage tanks.


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## Stratos200xl (Nov 28, 2018)

storage tanks isnt an issue, I could store 20k gallons if needed. The problem is space and efficiency. Voight Innovation only has a 450 gallon setup for bags and both require you to climb to load salt. I sketched up something for our engineers to scope out. I can fit a 330 gal tank with a 275 gallon tank on each side (1 clean tank with a mix tank on each side). This would yield roughly 800 gallons if you run both mix tanks. I could then mount both 230V electric pumps on top of the clean water tank with 1 pump running to each mix tank. Split off discharge with 6 GNC agitation nozzles placed in the bottom of each mix tank. With a series of inline valves all will be hard piped together with a line running underground to the storage tanks outside. Also hard pipe drain lines from mix tanks to 330gal water tank to drain all tanks when mix is complete. 1" high flow water supply lines will also be hard piped to all 3 tanks with valves on each supply line. This should allow them to fill all 3 tanks(800 gallons) in roughly 20 mins or could only run one mix tank if needed.

Now I just need to find a mix tank with a big lid or hatch around 48" tall. All the batch tanks I have found is cyliner and would make it difficult to pipe gravity drains and such in.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Stratos200xl said:


> storage tanks isnt an issue, I could store 20k gallons if needed. The problem is space and efficiency. Voight Innovation only has a 450 gallon setup for bags and both require you to climb to load salt. I sketched up something for our engineers to scope out. I can fit a 330 gal tank with a 275 gallon tank on each side (1 clean tank with a mix tank on each side). This would yield roughly 800 gallons if you run both mix tanks. I could then mount both 230V electric pumps on top of the clean water tank with 1 pump running to each mix tank. Split off discharge with 6 GNC agitation nozzles placed in the bottom of each mix tank. With a series of inline valves all will be hard piped together with a line running underground to the storage tanks outside. Also hard pipe drain lines from mix tanks to 330gal water tank to drain all tanks when mix is complete. 1" high flow water supply lines will also be hard piped to all 3 tanks with valves on each supply line. This should allow them to fill all 3 tanks(800 gallons) in roughly 20 mins or could only run one mix tank if needed.
> 
> Now I just need to find a mix tank with a big lid or hatch around 48" tall. All the batch tanks I have found is cyliner and would make it difficult to pipe gravity drains and such in.


Nah 
You can buy a pretty big rig from VSI and you can pour bulk salt right in there with a loader
Don't have to climb anywhere with bags


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## Stratos200xl (Nov 28, 2018)

tpendagast said:


> Nah
> You can buy a pretty big rig from VSI and you can pour bulk salt right in there with a loader
> Don't have to climb anywhere with bags


Bulk salt cant be stored on site (environmental) and the tanks are inside (un-insulated shop)


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

Have they considered just storage tanks and order it in? No making or hours? 

How come you can store 20k gallons of salt brine but no bulk salt? Here brine storage is regulated the same as bulk. 

Bulk is also offered in tote bags.


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## Stratos200xl (Nov 28, 2018)

Google Dan river....I don't kill the cat, just hold it.

Also don't have a good storage area, 6 mowers currently sit in the weather 24/7 hence the reason I am cleaning it out and trying to save space. Not sure where you are from but there is no one besides dot that uses brine and they make their own.


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