# 50 Residentials, severly under equiped



## Reliablesnow (Oct 16, 2011)

Hello all,

Last season I had 25 residential accounts, which I found pretty manageable with two people, one snowblower, and shovels. This year I have jumped to 50 accounts, all within 1 mile from each other and ranging from 30'-200' driveways. I went through a 6" storm the other day, and I realized that one single stage blower, shovels, and 3 total workers is too light of a load to keep up.

I am wondering what advice you all have in regards to upgrading equipment. I am hoping each storm I can have 2-3 workers total, but people are unreliable so I need to prepare for 2 workers in any sized storm. a 1-3" storm isn't too bad, but more than that I worry it will take too long to get to every one.

I have thought about an ATV, but that would require me getting a storage unit year long, which I'm not sure is worth it.

Maybe a two stage blower off Craigs list?

I have no experience with a plow, and am not sure if that's a good idea to jump into throwing a plow on my 09 F150.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

well if you can't plow,get another blower,Shovels should be used at a minimum.


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## Reliablesnow (Oct 16, 2011)

Do you think adding a 2 stage blower to the fleet would be more beneficial than another 1 stage? I feel like the 1 stage is not heavy duty enough- changing scraper blades and paddles all the time.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Yes it would.


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

At least another blower. If you double your accounts then you need to be more efficient. More equipment or more manpower. It depends on how much up front money you want to spend. A buddy of mine is always buying used equipment from craigslist. A little while later he's mad cause it blew up. You never know what you get when you buy used.


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## BC Handyman (Dec 15, 2010)

start saving for another truck, another blower will keep your shoveler fresher, as blowing is easier then shoveling, maybe find another worker & give them a small route of there own, places that can be shoveled with the 2 of them, while u & your shoveler do the bigger ones.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

That depends on how much snow you allow to build on the drives before you clear them. 2 stage have their place but I like single stage... you just have to stay on top of the storm and dont let it get too deep before you get started. But with 50 drives you should have a 2 stage for back up when the big storms hit.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Another blower...


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

How about a plow and 2 more snow blowers.


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## Reliablesnow (Oct 16, 2011)

Thank you for the responses. Another 2 stage is definitely in my future. With plowing, I have no experience with one. I feel as if there would be a big learning curve- one in which I do not think I could achieve in the middle of a season with so many accounts.

My biggest concern is being able to get every home done in a timely manner once a storm is done.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

50 driveways is a lot for a few guys and 1, even 2 snowblowers. You have a tight route which is killer so get a small plow for your truck and just go easy. The other day was my first time plowing ever without even sitting in on anybody or anything and aslong as you take it easy, and be methodical and wart where you put the plow and snow. 
Just to show whow efficient you can be I did 15 drives last year with a 4 hour route. They are relatively big and that was with me and a help with just shovels and a 2 stage. This year I picked up a small plow for my ranger, and I'm now doing 28 properties in 4.5 hours. Drop your helper off at the sidewalk and plow. A lot of times we finish at the same time and on to the next. A plow will really save you time and money, and you'll be a lot less tired at the end of the day.


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## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

50 resi's within a mile of each other - thats a tight route. so currently you have 1 truck with plow, 1 blower, shovels, and a crew of 3 people? how long it is taking you to service all 50 accounts with that setup during a 6" storm? 

upon first glance, i would say you are over equipped. i have 50 resi's all within a 2 mile radius of each other, and its just me. no shoveling or blowing. only plowing and i dont get out of the truck. it takes me 6-7 hours to do the route for a 6" storm. if i was doing walkways, i'd bring one other guy and he'd be sholving, but i dont imagine that would increase my route time. but loading and unloading a snowblower into the truck at each account would definetly be eating up the clock.


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## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

linckeil;1686799 said:


> 50 resi's within a mile of each other - thats a tight route. so currently you have 1 truck with plow, 1 blower, shovels, and a crew of 3 people? how long it is taking you to service all 50 accounts with that setup during a 6" storm?
> 
> upon first glance, i would say you are over equipped. i have 50 resi's all within a 2 mile radius of each other, and its just me. no shoveling or blowing. only plowing and i dont get out of the truck. it takes me 6-7 hours to do the route for a 6" storm. if i was doing walkways, i'd bring one other guy and he'd be sholving, but i dont imagine that would increase my route time. but loading and unloading a snowblower into the truck at each account would definetly be eating up the clock.


oh - my bad. i guess you dont have a plow truck. i just read the post above mine. anyway, yeah, definetly get a truck with plow. loose the snowblower (unless you have acccounts with TONS of walkways) and bring one other guy with you. he shovels while you plow.


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## Reliablesnow (Oct 16, 2011)

I will look into a plow after this season is done. I am leaning towards an Ariens 2 stage blower- whether there is a good deal online or a new one.


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## wils5150 (Jan 25, 2012)

I would get the plow now if you can afford it. with the increased productivity you may be able to pick up a few more drivways to pay for it.


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

Hire a sub who has a plow and knows what he"s doing, Pay him by the hour. give him a route, If they are all that close there should be no problem keeping a eye on him. Find someone with insurance.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

With 50 driveways it would be more than worth the investment to get a plow. With that nice of a customer base you will have it paid for in no time aslong as they priced correctly


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Reliablesnow;1686692 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Last season I had 25 residential accounts, which I found pretty manageable with two people, one snowblower, and shovels. This year I have jumped to 50 accounts, all within 1 mile from each other and ranging from 30'-200' driveways. I went through a 6" storm the other day, and I realized that one single stage blower, shovels, and 3 total workers is too light of a load to keep up.
> 
> ...


Take it from me, others will agree I'm sure its on Craig's list for a reason.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

You have 50 accounts and 1 blower... what happens when your 1 blower craps out? each storm your blower gets at least 2X the use it was designed for.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Reliablesnow;1686719 said:


> Do you think adding a 2 stage blower to the fleet would be more beneficial than another 1 stage? I feel like the 1 stage is not heavy duty enough- changing scraper blades and paddles all the time.


add one them 40'' + size blowers

I seen a guy running one and we had 4-5'' snow fall and he was going at a fast walk


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Go now and buy a brand new snow blower now right now. What is your back up plan if the one snow blower you have takes a sh*t in a storm what will you do. You have 50 accounts/customers that trust you to get the job done don't be at risk. Two stage a least and a set of ramps for getting the new two stage in and out of your f-150, it is a worth while investment in your business. Good luck, let it snow.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

50 accounts within a mile would be sweet. Even with no experience you could figure out how a small 7.5 foot light duty plow on your f150 would work and you'd be amazed how much more money you'd make in way less time. Even everyone of you drives is $30 youre still grossing $1,500 per storm. Think about it. It snows 10 times and your plow is paid for long before that. Buy a plow, and a nice commercial single stage snow blower. And bring only one shoveler with you. Also, by one of those dakota snow blade shovels. They work great for 4" or less of snow and are faster than any snow blower out there.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

I get what every one is saying buy a plow, yes you should ,but if you can't get one right now buy a 2stage snow blower. Shovels are great tools but what happens when you get 4 plus inches of the wet stuff? I'll tell you right now that single stage snow blower is not going to do the trick. With a shovel you are going to be burning up the clock. I just bought a 2stage snow thrower; I am waiting for the next 2" system to pass through. I got some use out of the thrower the last time it snowed... Way better than using single stage and moving the snow with a shovel.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

kg26;1687630 said:


> I get what every one is saying buy a plow, yes you should ,but if you can't get one right now buy a 2stage snow blower. Shovels are great tools but what happens when you get 4 plus inches of the wet stuff? I'll tell you right now that single stage snow blower is not going to do the trick. With a shovel you are going to be burning up the clock. I just bought a 2stage snow thrower; I am waiting for the next 2" system to pass through. I got some use out of the thrower the last time it snowed... Way better than using single stage and moving the snow with a shovel.


I agree with you. But I actually think he should buy a plow and a two stage snowblower.

Check out the Western HTS and also the Sno-way 26R or 26 series. If you don't have the cash on hand, finance it, either through your bank with a small business loan or through whoever the plow company has financing options through. Finance it for 3 or 4 years. That would be a low monthly payment. Under $200 for sure. You would have it payed off in no time.


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## locallawncare.c (Oct 22, 2012)

50 houses within a mile? that it a sick route, you should be able to bang em out with a help or two, I would say get another blower and keep doing what you are doing. I am solo, have 25 that are way more spread out that yours, I would say that I could do 50 solo within a mile of each other. I use a single stage toro and have an ariens 2-stage for when it get hairy. I would say that ideally you need 2 single stages and 1 2-stage. Thats what I have and I am solo, man 50 within a mile, I'm jealous.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

locallawncare.c;1687771 said:


> 50 houses within a mile? that it a sick route, you should be able to bang em out with a help or two, I would say get another blower and keep doing what you are doing. I am solo, have 25 that are way more spread out that yours, I would say that I could do 50 solo within a mile of each other. I use a single stage toro and have an ariens 2-stage for when it get hairy. I would say that ideally you need 2 single stages and 1 2-stage. Thats what I have and I am solo, man 50 within a mile, I'm jealous.


I'm jealous too. I want a much tighter route than I have now. but 50 within a mile is just incredible.


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## locallawncare.c (Oct 22, 2012)

Also if your customers are used to blowing and that's the service you sold them, they might be upset at being plowed, I used to plow for another company years ago and blowing by far does a way better job than plowing, especially small residential houses, not every driveway will come up clean, especially the ones with tire ruts and uneven surfaces. Also keep in mind extra insurance costs, maintenance and not to mention wear and tear on the truck, there is a huge market for snow blowing as opposed to plowing. To me it almost seems as though you are not charging enough, like just buy another blower whats the big deal? If you can afford a pair of helpers, I'm sure you can afford a new blower or two, sounds like you got a good customer base, just keep plugging away.


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## Glenn Lawn Care (Sep 28, 2009)

A plow truck a shoveler would be more efficient!


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

I just think he would be amazed at how fast he could do those 50 houses with a truck and a shoveler. Thats all I'm saying.


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## V_Scapes (Jan 1, 2011)

What about renting a skid steer with a blower on it?


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

V_Scapes;1692562 said:


> What about renting a skid steer with a blower on it?


Sounds expensive


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## adksnowo (Dec 14, 2005)

V_Scapes;1692562 said:


> What about renting a skid steer with a blower on it?


50 resi's within one mile. That is perfect for a skid or tractor w/ a blower. A small diesel/hydrostat cab tractor would be great. I don't know what you do the rest of the year to put a tractor to work but maybe a lease or used equipment could work. Look at what Neige does w/ tractors if there is any doubt as to productivity!

Or an ATV? to supplement the blower as a low buck stopgap if you are dead set against a plow on the truck.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

get on craigs list and buy 3 old ariens...should pay around 250 per for 8hp(that's what they are around here)...silicone the entire machine heavy and the results will be worth it....the 3rd machine is a backup for breakdown or need it for another operator


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## jbsplow (Sep 16, 2013)

your doing 50 driveways and you only have a blower? how long does it take you, that's a lot of accounts with not owning a plow.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

subscribed.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

jbsplow;1694497 said:


> your doing 50 driveways and you only have a blower? how long does it take you, that's a lot of accounts with not owning a plow.


2x that - I have only 19 driveways, longer country ones that I use a truck, snowblower and a shovel, to get the jobs done. With this last 7.5 of wet snow it took 18 hours. On a 2 inch snow it is 8 hours.


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## V_Scapes (Jan 1, 2011)

SnowFakers;1693981 said:


> Sounds expensive


He could get them done in half the time with a bobcat AND pick up more work.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

V_Scapes;1694560 said:


> He could get them done in half the time with a bobcat AND pick up more work.


Yeah maybe but he only has a half ton truck. And That would really suck to hook up and chain down a skid that many times in a night, cause I don't he could drive it from job to job. Even if its within a mile.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

skorum03;1694566 said:


> Yeah maybe but he only has a half ton truck. And That would really suck to hook up and chain down a skid that many times in a night, cause I don't he could drive it from job to job. Even if its within a mile.


If all the jobs are with in a mile radius, drive the skid steer. If it's a mile between all jobs, that's another story. Either way, I'd be looking for a SnowDogg MD75 or a Western HTS 7.5' for the front of the truck and the 2nd single stage is a no-brainer. A couple used Ariens 2-stage blowers @ $250 for the really deep heavy stuff makes sense also.


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## V_Scapes (Jan 1, 2011)

skorum03;1694566 said:


> Yeah maybe but he only has a half ton truck. And That would really suck to hook up and chain down a skid that many times in a night, cause I don't he could drive it from job to job. Even if its within a mile.


So you get it delivered, and maybe he plows a driveway for a snowbird family and he could leave it there for the winter, no reason why you cant drive a skid steer for a mile down a road.

I do think a snow plow is a better idea. everyone has to learn how to plow at some point, just cause you dont know how doesnt mean you cant learn. one good winter and you could probably pay the plow off.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

mnglocker;1694625 said:


> If all the jobs are with in a mile radius, drive the skid steer. If it's a mile between all jobs, that's another story. Either way, I'd be looking for a SnowDogg MD75 or a Western HTS 7.5' for the front of the truck and the 2nd single stage is a no-brainer. A couple used Ariens 2-stage blowers @ $250 for the really deep heavy stuff makes sense also.


I completely agree with buying the plow and a couple used snow blowers.


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## BossPlowMaster (Aug 10, 2013)

Reliablesnow;1686719 said:


> Do you think adding a 2 stage blower to the fleet would be more beneficial than another 1 stage? I feel like the 1 stage is not heavy duty enough- changing scraper blades and paddles all the time.


unless it is super light and fluffy.... you need a 2 stage to move it around efficiently. I would think about a plow thought because it would knock your time wayyyyy down.


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

Congrats on the nice buisiness you got going with the tight route hopefully you have your drives priced right. If you don't want to buy a plow truck make sure you buy at least 2 more snow blowers. 50 drives you probaly need at least 3 blowers running and 2 or 3 guys mimimum. I wouldn't mind just having snow blowers sometimes lower overhead, sounds like a nice gig to me good luck.


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## locallawncare.c (Oct 22, 2012)

Everyone seems to say just get a plow, this is plowsite however. Just keep blowing them, I doubt the customers will like being plowed if they are used to being blown, there is a large market for blowing many people cringe at the thought of plow on their driveway, I do 26 solo and have a much more spread out route than you, drives are small though typically 4 car parking but range from 2 car - 6 car, keep it up, 1 mile is tight.


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## mr_tiggy (Nov 26, 2010)

I don't know if this is a reasonable suggestions or not but you could possibly get a Daniel's rear pull plow or a standard duty fixed wing rear Ebling. You could clean the drives with this, which has the added benefit of having down pressure, and then blow the snow with your 2-stage snow blower. It just might be tricky to get the blower out of the back of the truck?? You could even back drag them all first then come back and blow the piles later???


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## BossPlowMaster (Aug 10, 2013)

locallawncare.c;1695126 said:


> Just keep blowing them, I doubt the customers will like being plowed if they are used to being blown


:laughing: plowing them old ladies?


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## jbell36 (Feb 21, 2008)

i didn't read all the responses, but heres what i think…i would buy another blower

if you had 2 vehicles you could put a blower and a shoveler in each, and in the future, put two blowers in each truck…one vehicle starts at the beginning of the route, the other starts at the end, therefore you will meet in the middle, whichever account that may be, and it probably won't be the same account each storm…

your customers are used to a single stage snow blower, that leaves the cleanest finish possible, a plow will smash down a little bit of snow and leave residual that will turn to ice

a two stage snowblower will get through any snow, BUT they are expensive (which should be the least of your worries), they are heavy (at least two guys or a trailer to load), and they are MUCH slower

single stages will run cirlces around 2 stages, but they won't get through every snow…a 10" wet snow? not a chance

plow route isn't' a bad way to go, we make drives look pretty good after a 6" dry snow, but when it's a wet snow it gets packed down much more…we tried the hiniker C, but it didn't do any better than our boss V, which came very surprising to me (when back dragging)

residentials are a pain in the ass for us because we have so much commercial to get done first…what we have done is simple subbed our drives out…we too have 50, mostly customers that we do lawn care for and want to be a full service company for them, so i have about 3-4 friends with snowblowers and each takes care of about 10-15 or so, that way i don't have to worry about it after we push all of our lots, THEN salt…by that time we are too late to get to our resi

i will also add we start directly after the storm, whether that's 3am or 3pm…never had a noise complaint, only positive phone calls saying "i couldn't believe my drive was done by 6am, i could get to work"

with all these options, you have to keep a few things in mind…if you had one truck with a plow, and something went wrong with the truck or plow, you are ******…but if you had two of everything (2 trucks, 2 blowers, 2 shovels, etc.) then you still have a way to get stuff done…trust me, we have SOMETHING go wrong with a truck or plow every storm, you can never possibly be over prepared, stuff is going to happen

just some things to think about...


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## SnowClear (Feb 24, 2012)

A plow would certainly be a game changer for your operation. You could reduce your manpower requirements, substantially. Additionally, the plow makes your operation appear a tad more professional - less Ma 'n Pop shop appearance.

Despite the efficiency increase afforded by the plow, I'm willing to bet that your customers will be upset if you decide to switch from a blower service to a plow service. Your customers will notice the difference right away. Your current operation, I'm guessing, leaves the drive surface quite clean, zero turf/landscape damage, and no snow piles in the yard. 

You will need to make a choice. Stay the same and keep the operation rolling with walk-behind snowblowers and substantial manpower or upgrade equipment and reduce manpower and time spent per drive. 

I agree with all of the other posters that you will be able to learn how to use a plow in no time. So don't worry about that when weighing your options.

Depending upon how much money you have to spare or are willing to put into this, you might want to consider a garden tractor with a snowblower. You can buy a nice, used x700 series John Deere with 47" or 54" snowblower for a reasonable amount. Two stage walk-behinds are great, but a garden tractor will keep you fresh, reduce time/manpower per drive, and retain the snowblower look. 

I'd suggest that you also look into the larger tractor/blower combos like what Neige does. Even if it is way out of your price range, it will give you an idea about what is possible. Imagine spending only 1-2 minutes per driveway...


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## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

I would check online for a walker/grasshopper mower and pick up a snowblower attachment for one. If you are within a mile you could set up a route and possibly drive the mower the entire route. I'm assuming you can't afford a tractor/snow blower set up....that would be ideal. I'm also assuming you already marketed for snow blowing and it would be tough to switch to plowing. I have used the grasshopper set up with a blower and it does a fantastic job....60" blower could do 20 2 car drives in a condo complex in about an hour with a 6" fluffy storm. Heavy and wet and more time.

Good luck, but don't give up, do everything you have to to get through this season and have a plan ready by next August so that you are prepared.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Reliablesnow;1686692 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Last season I had 25 residential accounts, which I found pretty manageable with two people, one snowblower, and shovels. This year I have jumped to 50 accounts, all within 1 mile from each other and ranging from 30'-200' driveways. I went through a 6" storm the other day, and I realized that one single stage blower, shovels, and 3 total workers is too light of a load to keep up.
> 
> ...


my opinion would be to go the plow route.

i run a v blade on my dodge ram 1500 with no problem.

i'm solo and run with 2 single stage snow blowers in the back and a shovel or 2 for steps. currently i do 20 residential accounts.

without that plow anything over 4 inches is a killer trying to keep up with just snow blowers.


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## jaybow (Dec 17, 2007)

Get a couple of 48" snow shovels. Where im at we seem to get mostly 2" or 4" snowfalls. Those wide shovels and two guys could clear alot of pavement fast. Single stage snow blowers burn the paddles up fast. With 50 driveways, you will be changing paddles atleast every other time doing snow, + your burning gas. Try the large shovels, you will se the difference.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

locallawncare.c;1695126 said:


> Everyone seems to say just get a plow, this is plowsite however. Just keep blowing them, I doubt the customers will like being plowed if they are used to being blown, there is a large market for blowing many people cringe at the thought of plow on their driveway, I do 26 solo and have a much more spread out route than you, drives are small though typically 4 car parking but range from 2 car - 6 car, keep it up, 1 mile is tight.


not always the case. I've only been plowing driveways for 4 years but the 4 years before that I did them all with snow blowers.

never even told my clients I got a plow, still haven't told them. hell what equipment is used in general is never discussed for any service. mowing, edging, pruning, snow removal.

I've never had a single person ask me what kind of equipment I use for a job before hiring me. most don't care as long as it's done and they like work done.



jaybow;1697459 said:


> Get a couple of 48" snow shovels. Where im at we seem to get mostly 2" or 4" snowfalls. Those wide shovels and two guys could clear alot of pavement fast. Single stage snow blowers burn the paddles up fast. With 50 driveways, you will be changing paddles atleast every other time doing snow, + your burning gas. Try the large shovels, you will se the difference.


wow never heard use a shovel advice before.

your snows sound like the snows I see, mostly 2 to 4 inches. I won't even pull out of the driveway to do snow on a 2" storm without my plow on the truck and my snow blowers in the back. shovels are for steps only.

I go through paddles general once a season. even when I use to snow blow everything with no plow to do the driveways.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

yardguy28;1697791 said:


> not always the case. I've only been plowing driveways for 4 years but the 4 years before that I did them all with snow blowers.
> 
> never even told my clients I got a plow, still haven't told them. hell what equipment is used in general is never discussed for any service. mowing, edging, pruning, snow removal.
> 
> ...


I'm with you dude


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## BossPlowMaster (Aug 10, 2013)

I had this awesome idea while I was out finishing my route yesterday..... Why don't you ask your guys what they think you should do? After all they are the ones that are going to have to use the equipment. And if they don't know how to use the equipment properly then this whole thread pressured you to make a business move that isn't best for YOUR business.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

BossPlowMaster;1697942 said:


> I had this awesome idea while I was out finishing my route yesterday..... Why don't you ask your guys what they think you should do? After all they are the ones that are going to have to use the equipment. And if they don't know how to use the equipment properly then this whole thread pressured you to make a business move that isn't best for YOUR business.


Pretty sure that if he were to buy a plow or a skid or tractor that he would be the only one using it. And his guys would have to use a shovel, which i'm pretty sure those aren't too tough to figure out.


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## BossPlowMaster (Aug 10, 2013)

skorum03;1697954 said:


> Pretty sure that if he were to buy a plow or a skid or tractor that he would be the only one using it. And his guys would have to use a shovel, which i'm pretty sure those aren't too tough to figure out.


Quit being an a** . I was talking snow blowers or even a small tractor.


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## locallawncare.c (Oct 22, 2012)

I get asked regularly if I plow or use snow blowers on driveways, many of my customer were ones that were plowed before and were unhappy with the service and were only looking for a blowing/shoveling service. Now don't get me wrong I used to plow for another company as well, all residential did about 50-60 with a shoveler in about 4-6 hours depending on snowfall, all properties were in one town, not at tight of a route as the original poster but still pretty efficient. People were happy with the service but they were paying for a plowing service so that is what they received. Now these driveways were typical suburban 4 car driveways (2 wide, 2 long with a sidewalk possible and obvious step or a path) plowing these drives is a pain in the neck, lots of backdragging, watching for traffic, then positioning to push the snow all on the boulevard (many of which had very little room for snow to begin with, also the temps in my area tend to be warm when there is snow so lawn damage is done very easily, especially when the plow is angled to push the snow on the boulevard.) I beilve plowing is for larger properties ones where you have room to put snow, turn around. I found blowing small 4 car driveways to be more efficient than plowing, it takes a little longer, but if you are solo you still have to hop out and shovel after and if there is cars in the driveway argh. I am much happier snow-blowing.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

BossPlowMaster;1697960 said:


> Quit being an a** . I was talking snow blowers or even a small tractor.


I am just saying that his guys shouldn't have anything to say about what equipment he gets. He is the owner, and the one who wants to become more efficient. So if he goes and buys a new big snow blower or two, his guys better learn how to use it or they won't have a job.



locallawncare.c;1697973 said:


> I get asked regularly if I plow or use snow blowers on driveways, many of my customer were ones that were plowed before and were unhappy with the service and were only looking for a blowing/shoveling service. Now don't get me wrong I used to plow for another company as well, all residential did about 50-60 with a shoveler in about 4-6 hours depending on snowfall, all properties were in one town, not at tight of a route as the original poster but still pretty efficient. People were happy with the service but they were paying for a plowing service so that is what they received. Now these driveways were typical suburban 4 car driveways (2 wide, 2 long with a sidewalk possible and obvious step or a path) plowing these drives is a pain in the neck, lots of backdragging, watching for traffic, then positioning to push the snow all on the boulevard (many of which had very little room for snow to begin with, also the temps in my area tend to be warm when there is snow so lawn damage is done very easily, especially when the plow is angled to push the snow on the boulevard.) I beilve plowing is for larger properties ones where you have room to put snow, turn around. I found blowing small 4 car driveways to be more efficient than plowing, it takes a little longer, but if you are solo you still have to hop out and shovel after and if there is cars in the driveway argh. I am much happier snow-blowing.


I think you're but there was a post earlier on here whom suggested that he buy a plow, and two new snow blowers. There probably are times where a snow blower would work best and only be a little slower. But those big two stages are slow.


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## SnowClear (Feb 24, 2012)

BossPlowMaster;1697942 said:


> I had this awesome idea while I was out finishing my route yesterday..... Why don't you ask your guys what they think you should do? After all they are the ones that are going to have to use the equipment. And if they don't know how to use the equipment properly then this whole thread pressured you to make a business move that isn't best for YOUR business.


Research demonstrates that your idea, inclusive and collaborative business development with employees, is highly effective in procuring dedicated and loyal employees which results in more efficient production. 3M is an excellent, large company example of how including employee's ideas can lead to great results.


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## SnowClear (Feb 24, 2012)

yardguy28;1697791 said:


> not always the case. I've only been plowing driveways for 4 years but the 4 years before that I did them all with snow blowers.
> 
> never even told my clients I got a plow, still haven't told them. hell what equipment is used in general is never discussed for any service. mowing, edging, pruning, snow removal.
> 
> I've never had a single person ask me what kind of equipment I use for a job before hiring me. most don't care as long as it's done and they like work done.


Impressive. I'm getting close to 10 years in business and the "what do you use" question is pretty much the first thing residential customers ask me. Your geographic location might also play a role in your experience. If you're in a low-snow geographic area, you're probably not going to be asked if you use a snow blower at all.


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## DFLS (Dec 24, 2007)

I wish I had 50 driveways within a 1 mile radius. Could add 25 more and still be done before my current 40 that are spread out over a 25 miles.

YES buy a plow for that truck and save for another truck + plow -- before you know it you will have 75 driveways being done in 6 hours with 2 crews (plow driver + 1 or 2 shovelers in each crew)


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## SnowClear (Feb 24, 2012)

jbell36;1695497 said:


> i didn't read all the responses, but heres what i think…i would buy another blower
> 
> if you had 2 vehicles you could put a blower and a shoveler in each, and in the future, put two blowers in each truck…one vehicle starts at the beginning of the route, the other starts at the end, therefore you will meet in the middle, whichever account that may be, and it probably won't be the same account each storm…
> 
> ...


Where are you located in Kansas? I resided in the Manhattan (Northeastern KS) for a while. Send me a PM if you prefer.

Good point about the truck/plow and contingency planning. No matter the equipment type, things can and will go wrong. A reliable service requires planning.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Food for thought: 

What about a pair of JD x360 tractors with blowers on a trailer that is easily handled by your F-150? That allows you to tackle 44" of width at a crack, at a much higher speed than any walk behind 2 stage, or even single stage will allow... And if you have several accounts along each block, that will be easy, because you won't have to load and unload for each account. Buy the machines on John Deere credit, and sell them in the spring, see how it works out for you. Also, if you're into summer services, those machines, while not as fast as ZTR's can cut grass, but can also handle pulling aerators, dethatchers and sprayers with ease.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

mnglocker;1698107 said:


> Food for thought:
> 
> What about a pair of JD x360 tractors with blowers on a trailer that is easily handled by your F-150? That allows you to tackle 44" of width at a crack, at a much higher speed than any walk behind 2 stage, or even single stage will allow... And if you have several accounts along each block, that will be easy, because you won't have to load and unload for each account. Buy the machines on John Deere credit, and sell them in the spring, see how it works out for you. Also, if you're into summer services, those machines, while not as fast as ZTR's can cut grass, but can also handle pulling aerators, dethatchers and sprayers with ease.


I think this, along with the buying a plow for the truck is the best idea.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

I wouldn't be without a plow for a second. Hit the location, unload the tractors, unhook the trailer and use the truck to open up the ends of the drives while the tractors make mince meat out of the drives and walks.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Get the tractors, or even step up to a x500 series if you're going to use them commercially in the summer for mowing, get the blower kits (Blower, rear weights, tire chains, grill cover), and in addition, add 7 gallons of RV/Marine anti-freeze to each rear tire for added traction/ballast.

At a minimum, go with at least the x320, so you can get the heavier and serviceable transaxle.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

locallawncare.c;1697973 said:


> I get asked regularly if I plow or use snow blowers on driveways, many of my customer were ones that were plowed before and were unhappy with the service and were only looking for a blowing/shoveling service. Now don't get me wrong I used to plow for another company as well, all residential did about 50-60 with a shoveler in about 4-6 hours depending on snowfall, all properties were in one town, not at tight of a route as the original poster but still pretty efficient. People were happy with the service but they were paying for a plowing service so that is what they received. Now these driveways were typical suburban 4 car driveways (2 wide, 2 long with a sidewalk possible and obvious step or a path) plowing these drives is a pain in the neck, lots of backdragging, watching for traffic, then positioning to push the snow all on the boulevard (many of which had very little room for snow to begin with, also the temps in my area tend to be warm when there is snow so lawn damage is done very easily, especially when the plow is angled to push the snow on the boulevard.) I beilve plowing is for larger properties ones where you have room to put snow, turn around. I found blowing small 4 car driveways to be more efficient than plowing, it takes a little longer, but if you are solo you still have to hop out and shovel after and if there is cars in the driveway argh. I am much happier snow-blowing.


well I'm glad it works for you and we all know you gotta do what works for you.

personally I have no trouble plowing out these small driveways and finding places for the snow. I find it much quicker and more efficient to use my plow.

I will never return to snow blowers only. I'd get out do the snow business before that.



SnowClear;1698094 said:


> Impressive. I'm getting close to 10 years in business and the "what do you use" question is pretty much the first thing residential customers ask me. Your geographic location might also play a role in your experience. If you're in a low-snow geographic area, you're probably not going to be asked if you use a snow blower at all.


well I wouldn't say we get a ton of snow but we do our share. but I've never had anyone ask what type of equipment I use. only how often I come, how much, what does that include and how do I pay you.

even in my lawn maintenance business people never ask what equipment I use.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

So tell us what you did, i love these threads people start and never come back.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

Chineau;1701353 said:


> So tell us what you did, i love these threads people start and never come back.


I know. Haha we haven't heard from the guy since the first page.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

skorum03;1701468 said:


> I know. Haha we haven't heard from the guy since the first page.


I'm wondering if this guy was even legit or just playing. We never got any real info out of him


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

SnowFakers;1701484 said:


> I'm wondering if this guy was even legit or just playing. We never got any real info out of him


Good point. 50 residentials within a mile.... how is that even possible?


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Some place it is very possible, check a guy call Neige out of Quebec it would almost appear to be fifty on an street very sweet operation. I just find kind of funny people post " help what should I do" then never come back ya this is what I did. I check this site to learn and grow my show if I can help others that is great but it is a two way street hopefully the op. Found the advise that works for him, it would be cool if they let us know.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

yeah 50 residentials in a mile isn't all that far fetched. i would love to have something like that. my own neighborhood would be great or one like it.

like i said in an earlier post, i'd forget the plow on the truck and just get a skid steer and do them all that way. with my neighborhood since sidewalks would need done as well i could just get a 2 stage snow blower or tractor with a snow blower or blade on it and do the sidewalks as one big sidewalk.

it would be a one stop awesome job.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

48" shovels for 2-4"....:laughing: Where do I sign up for that?


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

they make 48" shovels???


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Perhaps a riding lawn tractor with a 40" 2-stage blower? If the drives are all within a mile, then driving it isn't a big deal. Pull the mower deck, add tire chains and wheel weights, go move snow. 

Failing that, two 10 HP 2-stage blowers...one for each of ya.

But riding is easier on the bones than walking...colder, but easier..


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

yardguy28;1701863 said:


> they make 48" shovels???


Yes, The Snowplow shovels.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

guess I don't do enough shoveling 2 need 48" wide shovels.


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## Reliablesnow (Oct 16, 2011)

Hey guys, still here and completely legit. Started by business 4 years ago and have only delivered fliers within a 1 mile radius, around 3K homes. I'm in a small community where word spreads, so my growth from referrals has been outstanding. 53 snow accounts and 85 mowing accounts. I bought a 2 stage areins. I have a 2 stage, 1 stage, and a plowman 36" shovel. Last week I finished a 2" snow in 6 hours by myself with the 36" shovel- 41 homes total. Big snows will bring all 53 clients. Last 6" snow took 16 hours total with 2-3 guys and one single stage. I'm currently waiting for a 6-8" storm to end and will be going out with two guys with both blowers to see how it goes.

I'm currently a full time student 75 miles from my home/ work area. I want to limit growth until I am done with school in 2.5 years. At that time, I can get my own place and not run my business out of my rents garage. At that time, I would like to pick up an ATV and be able to run that on driveways, sidewalks, and small commercial accounts. In the mean time I am setting up meetings with some other small business owners to get more info about plowing, looking to possibly add one next season.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

having a plow is a godsend. I will never go back to just snow blowers and shovels. it makes small storms a breeze and large storms manageable.


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## TPCLandscaping (Jan 19, 2012)

ok, so… a single storm you have 53 accounts…say you charge $35 per a clearing(this is my minimum).. you pull in 1855 per storm.. you have 2 guys you pay 10 bucks an hour at say 12 hours per storm… so you bring in $1615 before fuel expenses.. so unless your tight enough to turn coal into a diamond, put some money into equipment so you aren't worried about break downs or if a guy doesn't show up. Always have a backup and a back up for your back up. If everything is in a mile, get yourself a nice diesel sub compact with a blower that you can run around town, and have the two other guys go out with the snowblower and shovels. A 50" blower on a subcompact is going to go through any kind of snow in a 1/4 of the time a walk behind blower will. The tight areas you can hop out and shovel. It will also give you something to write off, cause you know the government is going to want 40% of what your making. And then again you have fuel expense, and wear parts, and liability and workers comp. And your insurance companies are going to want to know if your in a high traffic area or what kind of slip and trip hazards there are in the area….and so on and so on


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

I guess you have to do what you have to do to make money and I suppose since I don't NEED to do snow removal my opinion might be a bit different but I can't see doing snow removal with just shovels. 

you have to take care of yourself physically or the money made won't mean a thing. no amount of money is worth risking your health in any way, shape or form. 

so I'll never understand guys using only shovels or the guys pulling crazy hours with no sleep (and then bragging about it like its impressive).


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

skorum03;1687775 said:


> I'm jealous too. I want a much tighter route than I have now. but *50 within a mile is just incredible.*


That's nothing, I have 80 within a 1/4 mile! Most are 2-4 acres.  Thumbs Up

I think the word incredible needs replaced with unbelievable.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

don't know if you are still watching the thread.....I know of 2 white 45" blowers going up for [email protected] yrs old but not used a lot


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## snoworks1 (Jul 11, 2009)

Reliablesnow;1703813 said:


> Hey guys, still here and completely legit. Started by business 4 years ago and have only delivered fliers within a 1 mile radius, around 3K homes. I'm in a small community where word spreads, so my growth from referrals has been outstanding. 53 snow accounts and 85 mowing accounts. I bought a 2 stage areins. I have a 2 stage, 1 stage, and a plowman 36" shovel. Last week I finished a 2" snow in 6 hours by myself with the 36" shovel- 41 homes total. Big snows will bring all 53 clients. Last 6" snow took 16 hours total with 2-3 guys and one single stage. I'm currently waiting for a 6-8" storm to end and will be going out with two guys with both blowers to see how it goes.
> 
> I'm currently a full time student 75 miles from my home/ work area. I want to limit growth until I am done with school in 2.5 years. At that time, I can get my own place and not run my business out of my rents garage. At that time, I would like to pick up an ATV and be able to run that on driveways, sidewalks, and small commercial accounts. In the mean time I am setting up meetings with some other small business owners to get more info about plowing, looking to possibly add one next season.


Well with that being said you need to invest in a front and rear plow for your truck. Right know it takes you 9 minutes a driveway on a 2" storm and 19 minutes a driveway on a 6" storm. With a front and rear plow combo you will be able to drop your driveway times on the 2" storms to 3 to 4 minutes topps to 7-8 minutes for the 6" storms. Just think of the labor $'s your going to save each year. If you go out 20 times a year and 12 plows are 2" storms and 8 are 6" storms, do the math. =3men*8events*16hours*$20.00 an hour=$7,680.00 in labor for the year! You will pay for your plows and have them for next year with no difference than paying for shoveling labor.

Better yet you should be able to service more clients with this set-up. Only down side is you need to have a back-up plan in case the truck goes down.

A better option is to get the AG tractor set-up and sell-sell-sell.

Chuck B


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## Bison (Dec 20, 2010)

Trucks , skidsteers, tractors with blowers..... how can you advise someone without knowing what they are charging per driveway or what they are netting ? For all anybody knows he could be grossing $500 a storm.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

well I know in my case sometimes my advice isn't based off what they are making or have for money at all. sometimes it's based off my personally opinion of if I would do that service that way or not. like snow removal for example. I would never do snow removal without a truck with a plow for the driveways and a snow blower for sidewalks. unless I was in a neighborhood and had every single driveway in which case I'd go the skid steer route. 

other times the advice is based off of knowing the kind of money that can be made doing it a certain way. take my example I just used. I've never had a neighborhood with each and every driveway and I know the cost of skid steers and it's not really in my budget but I know I'd make more money going the skid steer route in that situation than using my truck and plow.


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## Tom c. (Nov 23, 2005)

*driveways*



DFLS;1698096 said:


> I wish I had 50 driveways within a 1 mile radius. Could add 25 more and still be done before my current 40 that are spread out over a 25 miles.
> 
> YES buy a plow for that truck and save for another truck + plow -- before you know it you will have 75 driveways being done in 6 hours with 2 crews (plow driver + 1 or 2 shovelers in each crew)


I would get a short wheelbase {jeep} or something like it and another snowblower. Short wheelbase vehicles are great for driveways. You'll be done twice as fast. If you're business went from 25-50 driveways in 1 yr. put some money back in the business. Personally I don't like driveways!


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## forkicks (Dec 28, 2012)

Reliablesnow;1703813 said:


> Hey guys, still here and completely legit. Started by business 4 years ago and have only delivered fliers within a 1 mile radius, around 3K homes. I'm in a small community where word spreads, so my growth from referrals has been outstanding. 53 snow accounts and 85 mowing accounts. I bought a 2 stage areins. I have a 2 stage, 1 stage, and a plowman 36" shovel. Last week I finished a 2" snow in 6 hours by myself with the 36" shovel- 41 homes total. Big snows will bring all 53 clients. Last 6" snow took 16 hours total with 2-3 guys and one single stage. I'm currently waiting for a 6-8" storm to end and will be going out with two guys with both blowers to see how it goes.
> 
> I'm currently a full time student 75 miles from my home/ work area. I want to limit growth until I am done with school in 2.5 years. At that time, I can get my own place and not run my business out of my rents garage. At that time, I would like to pick up an ATV and be able to run that on driveways, sidewalks, and small commercial accounts. In the mean time I am setting up meetings with some other small business owners to get more info about plowing, looking to possibly add one next season.


I'm glad that you had the ambition to go out a solicit all that work because that is how it is done. But doing so with out a plan should all those people call or doubling what you already have without a way to cover them is not good. When you want to grow your business you have to to be able to have a plan ready to handle all those potential new costumers and also you need to set a limit as to what realistically you can handle during a major storm . There is nothing that will kill your future business than signing up a lot of costumers and than not be able to handle them. That word will spread real fast as to you being unreliable. But if you can explain your limits to the customers and they can wait a reasonable amount of time for you to show than all may be good. But you definitely need to communicate this to them.Working with subs ( meaning plow trucks or other company's) is one option although it is not always the best because depending on what you are charging to get all these customers it may be lower than they are willing to work for. Also it is their name on the truck and their face that the customers are seeing and some may look to actually take some of those customers stating to the customer that they are doing this because you can not handle it. Be careful never trust anyone when it comes to money and your business. I know that you mentioned that you are a full time student and did limit your customer base but it almost sounds like you exceeded that limit. Since you want to continue to use snow blowers and shoveler's than this will be a very important learning curve for you in employee management . That is knowing how many you need to hire to get the job done and have a list of subs (meaning shovelers. ) to call should you have no shows. Always have a extra man and plan on someone not showing and you will always be safe and be able to keep all of your commitments to your customers. Good luckThumbs Up


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## Reliablesnow (Oct 16, 2011)

forkicks;1727541 said:


> I'm glad that you had the ambition to go out a solicit all that work because that is how it is done. But doing so with out a plan should all those people call or doubling what you already have without a way to cover them is not good. When you want to grow your business you have to to be able to have a plan ready to handle all those potential new costumers and also you need to set a limit as to what realistically you can handle during a major storm . There is nothing that will kill your future business than signing up a lot of costumers and than not be able to handle them. That word will spread real fast as to you being unreliable. But if you can explain your limits to the customers and they can wait a reasonable amount of time for you to show than all may be good. But you definitely need to communicate this to them.Working with subs ( meaning plow trucks or other company's) is one option although it is not always the best because depending on what you are charging to get all these customers it may be lower than they are willing to work for. Also it is their name on the truck and their face that the customers are seeing and some may look to actually take some of those customers stating to the customer that they are doing this because you can not handle it. Be careful never trust anyone when it comes to money and your business. I know that you mentioned that you are a full time student and did limit your customer base but it almost sounds like you exceeded that limit. Since you want to continue to use snow blowers and shoveler's than this will be a very important learning curve for you in employee management . That is knowing how many you need to hire to get the job done and have a list of subs (meaning shovelers. ) to call should you have no shows. Always have a extra man and plan on someone not showing and you will always be safe and be able to keep all of your commitments to your customers. Good luckThumbs Up


Thanks, great advice. Luckily, upgrading to another snowblower really saved me. I am able to do my whole route in 3 hours with three guys, below 4 inches. I took on a 12" storm with just one other guy, two blowers in total of 11 hours, which included a lot of properties being done twice.

I feel confident that I have this winter under control, but there is still a lot to be figured out when it comes to expansion. I need to learn, figure out, and find people who can take my over the hump of expanding to the point where I can be more hands off, whether that be two trucks out or someone else overseeing all that work. That will be the next challenge to dive into over the next few years.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

My dream setup for residential is to put a Daniels or Ebling pull plow on the rear of my Jeep TJ Unlimited and a push plow up front.

Money is not there to buy a plow this year. And this coming year I have to spend mow buying mower/s.

So I will not have the money to buy a plow next winter. Though I am getting more work then I can handle with my 24" and 28" snow blowers.

So I may get myself that 45" 2 stage Cub Cadet for next snow season.


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## locallawncare.c (Oct 22, 2012)

Hows Reliablesnow doing this year?


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

quigleysiding;1686898 said:


> Hire a sub who has a plow and knows what he"s doing, Pay him by the hour. give him a route, If they are all that close there should be no problem keeping a eye on him. Find someone with insurance.


Bingo!

...


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

I've only gone through the first page, but something isn't right her. 

Poor cash flow, under bidding the accounts, bad credit, the time management, too much overhead,etc... 

There should be no reason to not have the resources to manage such a good route. 

Though not an advocate for financing, you need to think about upgrading


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

I've only gone through the first page, but something isn't right her. 

Poor cash flow, under bidding the accounts, bad credit, the time management, too much overhead,etc... 

There should be no reason to not have the resources to manage such a good route. 

Though not an advocate for financing, you need to think about upgrading any way you can. 


....


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## NickSnow&Mow (Jul 12, 2014)

adksnowo;1694064 said:


> 50 resi's within one mile. That is perfect for a skid or tractor w/ a blower. A small diesel/hydrostat cab tractor would be great. I don't know what you do the rest of the year to put a tractor to work but maybe a lease or used equipment could work. Look at what Neige does w/ tractors if there is any doubt as to productivity!
> 
> Or an ATV? to supplement the blower as a low buck stopgap if you are dead set against a plow on the truck.


Agreed, I have 25 with a oos jd 3032e hydrostat. Im usually solo and can bang out drive ways in 5-10 mins


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## onemanband (Nov 23, 2014)

Yep, Something is not wright here. Many of you are awfully kind to take the time to respond to a young entrepreneur. Who drops off the face of the thread with little to know updates. After re-reading this thread many of you have given this person some insightful and wise council ( without a thank you) IMHO if I were a betting man some or quite a few of these drives he is charging $10 to $20.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

The thing that isn't right, is that the thread is a year old.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Is this were the police moved the hotdog cart?


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

grandview;1891965 said:


> Is this were the police moved the hotdog cart?


To a spot down the street.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Away from Randy and Ben's mom.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Mark Oomkes;1892371 said:


> Away from Randy and Ben's mom.


So that they would.


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## NickSnow&Mow (Jul 12, 2014)

onemanband;1891919 said:


> Yep, Something is not wright here. Many of you are awfully kind to take the time to respond to a young entrepreneur. Who drops off the face of the thread with little to know updates. After re-reading this thread many of you have given this person some insightful and wise council ( without a thank you) IMHO if I were a betting man some or quite a few of these drives he is charging $10 to $20.


You're probably right. I dont know who the thread owner is but 
If hes just starting out $20 isnt too surprising. Im in the same boat with this guy, ive recieved a lot of help on here wich im greatfull for but some people on here just dont know the specific market or length of time the person with the question has been in business. I charge $30 per time but if I charged $60 I would probably hAve 5 customers. Things are different when you're just startin out. Thanks, Nick


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