# Toyota to build a true 3/4 ton Diesel



## CT18fireman

I got the information direct from a Toyota exec. In 2005 the will introduce a 3/4 ton truck based on the Tundra with a diesel engine aimed at direct competition with the big three. Possible one ton C&C models may also be built later. 

Toyota made very durable but underpoered diesels for the U.S. market in the 80's. These continue to be produced in foreign markets and are actually well performing engines from what I have heard. I am sure their new diesel will be as well.

Only time will tell if this new truck is accepted by commercial buyers. I e-mailed back to make sure it can handle a snowplow. LOL I do know I will be giving it a serious look when they come out.


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## Arc Burn

I wonder if they will be priced competitively?


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## John DiMartino

Wow,thats good news.Id like to see some serious competition from an import. All the full size imports to date have been seriously lacking,and cannot compare to Dodge,Ford/GM.


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## wyldman

It would be nice to see some good competition,so the other big three will have to up the quality on their trucks.If they can build a truck with the Toyota quality,refinement and reliability,but with the brute strength and towing power of a true HD truck,they will have a winner.

As long as it's not to refined,I kinda like the good old rattle of a true diesel.


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## meyer22288

I wouldn't want a 3/4 ton toyota. but im sure they will be nice to people who like toyotas and a change from the 3/4 ton models from ford, dodge and chevy.


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## CT18fireman

Wyldman I got to agree. My 15 year old Toyota 4x4 has more options and amenities then the new fullsize trucks. Cupholders, nice stereo, cruise, a/c, comfortable seats, etc. If this carries over into this new truck then I would want one.

Add to that some of the technology that foreign carmakers bring to the table and you have great possibilities. When I hear that the new Maxima is making like 280hp from a normally aspirated V6 I am amazed. Nothing like that from the big 3.


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## wyldman

I know what you mean.The imports are way ahead of the North American automakers.

The other thing is quality.When an import mfg comes out with some fancy new motor,or trans,they have very few problems with it,and what problems they do have with it are usually quickly rectified.

When the big three try something,it takes them forever to work the bugs out of it,and usually upsets the customer in the process.Look at the new 6.0L Ford diesel.


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## CT18fireman

Toyota has had virtually no problems with their V8. It is used in Tundras, SUVs and Lexus uses a version. Makes a lot of power and is very smooth. I have not received any major service bulletins on it.

Toyota used the 22r motor in trucks and cars from 1980 unitl 1995. Basically the same setup. Fuel Injection in 84-85 but otherwise no changes. Just a reliable well built motor. Don't forget the same motors run oversears on poor gas and awful maintanence, but they keep running.

You just can't say that about any of the big 3


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## bdemir

If they do come out with one i will considering one myself. I think it will be the last car i will have to buy for a while. My tacoma has held up great when my chevy and ford did not the toyota was there to bail me out always. I love my 99 tacome with 135k miles and counting. People think i am crazy when i overload it with drywall and pull tailers 16t long with loaded equipment (when im scraping the mud plaps etc..). The truck does sway alot due to the weight difference but the power and durability in the engine and tranny are there and the truck still runs almost as good as the first day i bought it. If they do come out with a one ton line i would be worried about the big three. Toyota is the most durable thing on the road in trucks suv and cars. Not to mention it has the highest selling car in america the camry and they are made in america now. 
Many parts on chevys are made overseas and the same with ford.


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## bdemir

CT18fireman,

I test dorve a lexus and let me tell you it drives like a dream. Inever drove a car like that and i have owned almost every stinking car from german, amercian to japanese. I even drove the is300 which is their sport model and you could still call it a dampened ride. you just dont feel any bumps its like heaven. Ive also test driven the tundra and it does have power buy i like the nibleness of my tacoma better. It just felt to big and a little rougher. Hopefull they will make a truck ride better by then i just love the car like ride of my tacoma. Toyota has done a real good job of making it more comfortable after the 99 year i think.



Bedros


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## Michael F

I had a toyota (1982) when I started years ago(landscaping) didn't plow with it though. No doubt it would have, truck was an animal. Sold it to my brother, he beat the #$%^ out of it, body was roting bad when he got rid of it, still ran great though. Also had a Supra, great little car, I parked it winters, would get in after sitting all winter charge battery, thing started right up. American cars you can't do that with, I now run chevys but would seriously look at switching if pricing is comparable.


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## BWhite

*wyldman*

Do you think VW quickly addressed the coil pack problem they had . Seems like they ignored it for quite some time


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## wyldman

I think they have taken care of most of the coil problems.Now the aftermarket has to catch up as well.There were a lot of counterfeit coils being sold that looked just like original VW(Bremi) parts.A lot of that wasn't VW's fault.

Now if they could just solve all the MAF problems ......


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## 90plow

The duramax in the chevy/Gm trucks is Izuzu. They still have some problems but are a great running motor and nice and quiet. I don't know if I'd buy a toyota 3/4 ton but for the big three Im sure it will prove a tough competitor.
Eric


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## Terrasnow

My wife drives a 98 Forerunner. I keep telling her that I'm going to put my 7.5 Ultramount on it and she thinks I am crazy. That truck has 90k on it and drives like new. I drove '03 and '04 Ford and Chevy P/U's, and when I hop out of those and into her old thruck, my body thinks that the 98 Forerunner is the new truck.

I would love to see Toyota give us a 3/4 ton P/U to plow with. I might just hold off on my new truck purchase in anticipation!:yow!:


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## Terrasnow

CT18fireman...

Wanted to poke your brain a little on the 3/4 Tundra. Do you know if it will only be offered with a diesel, or will a larger than 4.7L gas option be offered?

Also, does a 2005 model year mean end of 04, beginning of 05, or end of 05, beginning of 06.

I understand that you might not know anything more than you have already mentioned, but I would love to buy a 3/4 Tundra and might decide to wait on a new truck purchase to get one. I like to keep my trucks until they are half rust.


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## CT18fireman

I have not heard much more then I mentioned. It will have other engines offered, probably a V6 and V8. Combinations of body styles, trannies and bed sizes are still unknown to me atleast. 

Again this is all just what my "connection" at Toyota America told me. I went into a dealer and they claimed they did not know anything about it.

When I hear more I will let you know.


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## gslam88

Guys, 

My feeling is there is just nothing like good old Detroit power and sheet metal.... some people like the imports trucks, however I personally do not like them. Although some of the sheet metal now being used in the USA is an inferior quality Chinese steel... its still does not feel as flimsy as the recycled tin of the imports. 
The little details that I like are found like 3 cigarette lighters for more power is in the GM's line .... and as far as payload, I will stay Detroit based vehicles. 

Also looking at the Automotive news website I found this

Unveiled at the Paris Auto Show was the new Toyota Land Cruiser, which replaces the Land Cruiser 90. The European Toy will have an all-new 4.0L V-6 (as well as the carryover 3.0L turbodiesel), a new Torsen limited slip differential, and optional TEMS, or Toyota Electronically Modulated Suspension for adjustable ride height.


So that problem means that we will get the 3.0L turbodiesel motor.. So as compared to a GM 6.6 L, the Ford now 6.0L and the Cummins 5.9L seems small in comparison at purely looking at the numbers. 


The other news looking for rumors on this I found was this


2005 Honda Pickup: Yes, pickup. Recognizing a mainstream market it does not compete in, Honda has been researching the pickup market for years. Initial speculation pointed to either following Toyota's lead with a true body-on-frame truck or basing the vehicle off the Pilot sport/ute. Recent indications suggest Honda may spawn a crossover SUV/pickup off the new Odyssey. Massive plant expansion could have been fueled by more than minivan demands...


only time will tell


Pete :waving:


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## CT18fireman

Actually Toyota has a series of diesels that go in light (Tacomas) to medium duty (like Mitsus) trucks overseas. They have a 3.0, 3.8, 4.7 and 5.8 diesel I think. Not sure of the exact sizes. When I get home I will check and get the HP/torque ratings as well.

As for your comments on steel. All Toyotas would rust out in the beds. Incidently all Toyota trucks that were made in Japan were shipped here without beds to be able to ship more trucks. The beds were made in CA and bolted on after they got of the boat. The rest of the truck holds up much better then the bed. It was the America sheet metal that was poor quality.


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## Terrasnow

That is not suprising.

By the way, there is quite a difference in ruggedness between the sheet metal of my '91 Chevy and the current '04 Chevy's. The new trucks use very light gage steel... probably to save weight which equates to better gas mileage (even though the mileage they get is still poor).


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## tuna

The reason Toyotas were shipped without beds has nothing to do with room on the ship.It is for the same reason that the Japs opened plants in America,Import Tarriffs.The Jap automakers were paying outrageous import tarriffs imposed by the US government to try to offset the failing US auto Industry in the late Seventies.By shipping the Trucks without beds they were classified as incomplete vehicals puting them into the same catagory as parts thussfor beating the tarriff.


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## dmontgomery

I finally got to see the new Crew cab Tundra.....very nice......

Derek


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## jeepboy

I would welcome the new 3/4 ton toyota,and would really like to own one. But my 86 4runner is just broken in with 264,000 miles on it. It still drives and plow's great!


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## dmontgomery

I like to hear that Jeepboy.......I just put a plow on my 96 4Runner........Looking forward to using it...

Derek


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## Terrasnow

Jeepboy, Derek,

Are you running light duty plows on those 4runners, or standard 7.5 footers?


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## dmontgomery

It is a 6'8" Snoway......I guess since the vehicle is light and the plow is small...you could call it light weight.....but it's all I need to do driveways........

I am looking forward to snow....

Derek


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## jeepboy

Terrasnow,on my last 4runner i was using a 7.5 meyers poly plow,i think it was approx 900lb??? noy sure? On this 4runner i am using a 7.5 steel meyers plow.usually i give the torsion bars a few cranks and use about 380lbs of sand bags in the rear.


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## dmontgomery

Have you used Timbrens???

Derek

mine does not squat very much with this plow....


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## jeepboy

I haven't measured it but i don't think it drops more than 1.5 inches.
I don't use timberens,but i do use air bags on my jeep and they work really good.


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## dmontgomery

I may just try the torsion bar deal and see what happens...

Derek


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## 75gmck25

Its just a guess, but Toyota may introduce the new truck models when they open up their plant in San Antonio. One of the reasons they are building the truck plant in Texas is so they have production in the US and can avoid some of the import costs. They should be able to be more price-competitive after this plant opens.

Bruce


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## crashz

Last summer I drove a Hino 18ft cube van for furntiture deliveries on Saturdays. Hino is a GM & Toyota venture (cab over 1 -5 ton truck range). It had the reliablilty of a Toyota, cheap interior of a GM and power of a Corolla. This truck had Toyota's inline 6 turbocharged diesel and a 5 speed. Its top speed was exactly 65 mph with dangerously slow acceleration. This was the only vehicle I actually hate to drive. The only good thing I can say about it is that over 120K miles with countless drivers and more than a few fender-benders, the truck has never had any mechanical failure. 

It would be nice to see Toyota build a decent diesel 3/4 ton and spice up the competition. Right now I beleive our domestic diesels are top of the line, but I think Toyota could bring the overall price down for everyone. The biggest problem with the domestic diesels: the sticker price!


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## Mebes

I thought that there was a ban on import full size pickups because of the way that the Jap cars killed the American market in the 80s and almost put Dodge out of business.

If this ban has been lifted then you can all get in line behind me for a 3/4 ton Toyota.

If it wouldn't have been for the government bailing out Dodge by buying all those K cars it would be the big 2 now.

Anybody ever own an American built car from the 80s?
They were all junk compared to the 80s imports.

Sure the body's fell off the imports if you drove them in salt, but you could not stop them.

I say about time to bring some competition into the truck market.
Maybe then the big 3 will respond with some improvements in the truck market like they did in the 90s with their cars


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## dmontgomery

And maybe bring the prices down...

Derek


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## Michael F

Any idea when this truck is coming out?


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## BobcatS250

If Toyota is indeed going to come out with one, hopefully it'll be first in a line that can actually kick some American ass. The Nissan Titan is good, but the Tundra looks a little underpowered to me.


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## fisherman

*fisher plow on tundra*

THis is for CT18fireman,

I know you posted once that you put a fisher plow on a tundra once. Could you tell me a little more about that, because I'm considering the same, after beefing up the front end with stiffer springs. Thanks.


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## fisherman

this is for ct18fireman,

I know you posted once that you put a fisher plow on a tundra. Could you tell me a little more about that operation, because I'm considering doing the same, after beefing up the front end with stiffer springs. Thanks


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## Guest

can the tundra have a plow? someone who was looking to buy a new one, was told by his dealer that the truck doesn't have any place to mount the plow frame.


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## dmontgomery

Bull.....Snoway makes one for it. They even show one plowing in a video on their website......I think you have to remove the front valence to mount the plow.

Derek


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## Guest

I hate it when dealers do that. Once they said (same dealer), that you can't put a plow on a Dodge 1/2 ton


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## pjaln

when you drive by a ford ,chevy or dodge ,dealer in the winter you will always see 3/4 and 1 tons with plows on them being sold from the dealerships i will guarantee you that will never happen at a toyota dealership i know that they have to know how to build strong trucks with good fwd systems but this is not what they are sending to the american market the front end of my 90 landcruiser is more robust than the new tundra 
the only way they could compete is if they send a solid front axle 3/4 or 1 ton but i dont think it will ever happen 

dodge and ford with solid axles are the only true 4wd work trucks in america ...........ifs is not for heavy duty trucks..........paul


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## jcald

Well boys I got this news from another site from a guy who seems to know alot about the new plant in san antonio,

"The San Antonio plant is on schedule. Staff are being hired and trained at the Indiana plant that produces both current Tundra and Sequoia. Initial Tundra build will be from Indiana, then San Antonio will ramp up to full capacity of 150,000 in '06. Indiana will supply another 50,000 Tundra and forecast (in Toyota talk forecast = actual) is for 200,000 Tundra in '06, double current sales levels.

Drivetrains are running the gamut from V-8 to V-10 to Diesels, different running gear for each, and a Super Heavy Duty model will be part of the mix."

I wish I didn't just buy an 05 tundra this week. :angry:


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## Terrasnow

*Updates on Toyota HD Truck*

Has anyone heard any new details on Toyota releasing a HD (plow-worthy) pickup?


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## dmontgomery

unfortunately no, I periodically search for news and none has come up.....


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## Seamus

I just read this whole thread and I just wanted to make a comment on foreign trucks. I am a die hard Nissan fan and have owned three Hb pickups, two of which I still have. One is a 95 HB kingcab 4x4 v6 that I put a Sno-Way on this August. I can't wait to see what it can do with it. The other is an 87 HB V6 with a stake body and dually rear. Yes,that's right, a dually. It is a monster. I've had close to 2 yards of loam in the back and it handled it better than I could have ever imagined. It also gets great mpg for something with that type of work load. Anyone that has doubts about a Japanese made trucks ability to stand up to an American made truck has obviously never driven one. I anxiously await this new Toyota and hope that Nissan will follow their example.
Seamus


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## dmontgomery

This is my third year with a Snoway on my 96 4Runner....it is a great driveway truck. I have test driven the Titan and really like that. Hopefully the 3/4 tons are out soon.


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## Pristine PM ltd

*Toyota one ton*

I have just been seaching for any new on Toyota building a one ton. Anyone heard anything yet?

Jon


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## camaroracer016

well geez. this truck was asposed to come out in 05, still no truck. now they are saying 08. I doubt it. American trucks are the best. Period.


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## kubotazd21

I guess the Toyota executive had no idea what he was talking about over 3 years ago.......


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## scottL

camaroracer016 said:


> well geez. this truck was asposed to come out in 05, still no truck. now they are saying 08. I doubt it. American trucks are the best. Period.


The two american truck builders ( Chevy and Ford ) are very expensive. Chevy's new design mirrors a cross between a Nissian Titan and the new proposed Toyota Tundra. The 1500 is catering to the truck-want-to-be market who has way too much cash on hand with an average price tag hitting 42K in shows rooms right now.

Ford still has real trucks starting with the 250 and above. However, a decent non-fancy leather version will still hit you around 38K or better.

Were talking some huge money for a truck your suppose to use for work???? I'd be scared tp put that much doug into a truck and then go plowing or hauling with it.

Talking with the Toyota dealership they have gone to training on the new Tundra which is suppose to be hitting dealerships now through March. Suppose to be less money and be equivelant to any 2500 HD or 250 SD.

Got to tell you the New Chevy design may not have the guts for realy truck use. BTW 90% of all Tundra components including assembly is from US suppliers and workers. What percent of the components from Chevy and Ford are US ????? I believe the last set of numbers I've read were less than 80%. And Toyota just completed a 1.2 billion plant in Texas. What has GM or Ford done. ( It saddens me to stick up for a foregin maker but, the facts and dollars speak very loud )


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## DBL

i believe it when i see it... 3/4 ton my @$$


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## AJ Watson

*Better Transmissions to Come?*

Does this mean that Ford will have to build a decent automatic transmission for its Super Duty to compete with Toyota.I know my f-250's transmission sucks. Maybe Toyota will force the big 3 to come out with some decent gas mileage for full size trucks also.:realmad:


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## ThisIsMe

Is it 2005 yet?


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## Oshkosh

*My Old FJ 40's couldnt be stopped....*

If Toyota builds their new stuff anything like the old stuff that I owned(FJ40 Landcruisers) The big three will be in big trouble...The only thing that killed old Toyota trucks was RUST and it killed allot of them....
If "ANY" company can come out with a good diesel,strong front end,a solid transmission all the others better watch out....It doesn't seem anyone has figured that combination out yet.
$40k for a diesel pickup,lol No Thanks I'd rather have a nicer house.
Remember, Competition is good....May the best truck win....


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## Jay brown

CT18fireman;91925 said:


> I got the information direct from a Toyota exec. In 2005 the will introduce a 3/4 ton truck based on the Tundra with a diesel engine aimed at direct competition with the big three. Possible one ton C&C models may also be built later.
> 
> Toyota made very durable but underpoered diesels for the U.S. market in the 80's. These continue to be produced in foreign markets and are actually well performing engines from what I have heard. I am sure their new diesel will be as well.
> 
> Only time will tell if this new truck is accepted by commercial buyers. I e-mailed back to make sure it can handle a snowplow. LOL I do know I will be giving it a serious look when they come out.


saw this guy is banned....how does that happen?


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## Yaz

You do something very bad here.. you know.. against the rules. 

Depending on how serious you may get a warning. I saw one guy threaten someone here and post his street address and a map of his house and then...BANED.. the hole post was removed as well.


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## Flipper

Some things happened a long time ago, before a lot of you were members. If you want search it out. A few of the banned members were moderators one day and the next they were banned and all the moderators at the time were removed. Almost all left the site and have not returned.

This was quite a different site 5 years ago.


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## Joe D

Look at Toyota.com for the new Tundra. It seems to have all the big three's features of what a 1/2 ton truck should be and more.
Wake up Detroit.


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## finnegan

scottL;323681 said:


> The two american truck builders ( Chevy and Ford ) are very expensive. Chevy's new design mirrors a cross between a Nissian Titan and the new proposed Toyota Tundra. The 1500 is catering to the truck-want-to-be market who has way too much cash on hand with an average price tag hitting 42K in shows rooms right now.
> 
> Ford still has real trucks starting with the 250 and above. However, a decent non-fancy leather version will still hit you around 38K or better.
> 
> Were talking some huge money for a truck your suppose to use for work???? I'd be scared tp put that much doug into a truck and then go plowing or hauling with it.
> 
> Talking with the Toyota dealership they have gone to training on the new Tundra which is suppose to be hitting dealerships now through March. Suppose to be less money and be equivelant to any 2500 HD or 250 SD.
> 
> Got to tell you the New Chevy design may not have the guts for realy truck use. BTW 90% of all Tundra components including assembly is from US suppliers and workers. What percent of the components from Chevy and Ford are US ????? I believe the last set of numbers I've read were less than 80%. And Toyota just completed a 1.2 billion plant in Texas. What has GM or Ford done. ( It saddens me to stick up for a foregin maker but, the facts and dollars speak very loud )


wow but what you don't understand is that the money that is made off of theese wanna be trucks doesn't stay here it goes back overseaspayup


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## dmontgomery

finnegan;350193 said:


> wow but what you don't understand is that the money that is made off of theese wanna be trucks doesn't stay here it goes back overseaspayup


Why is it a wanna be???? Just because it doesn't have an American Co. name on it....... I guess Sony TV's are wannabe's also then....

welcome to a global economy....where do you think the money for buying a Dodge goes......straight to Germany....what's the difference? Chrysler is not an American company....that's why the Diamler comes first.....headquartered in Germany....

Check out where the Chevy Aveo is built. In Korea by a Korean company..... GM is OK with sending your American dollar there. It is just the way it is.....


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## dfdsuperduty

When will it be 2005 so i can see this new 3/4 ton truck that is supposed to be bigger and badder than my sueprduty??????


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## the_experience

I'm sure it's coming. I won't say it's going to be better or worse than anything else out there, but I think it will give the other heavy duty trucks a run for their money. Just look at the new Tundra. There is nothing light duty about its running gear and its a 1/2 ton. The big question in my mind is where will Toyota get the engines....My suspicion is that it will be sourced inhouse from Hino (Toyotas MDT line), but will be rebaged with a more American name. Basically it would be the same idea as Duramax. Then again, maybe they will go all out and try and fit a C7 in there or something.


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## Tscape

People who buy imports are killing the domestic automakers. Why don't you all wake up and buy American??


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## LHK2

I think Cat moters are going into the Toyota.


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## Nascar Fan

Turfscape LLC;382914 said:


> People who buy imports are killing the domestic automakers. Why don't you all wake up and buy American??


What a load of crap.Import Gasser engines are outliving american diesels.Toyota has put how many american people to work here and are going to build another plant.Wake up and tell Dodge to get out of bed with Germany's junk build here in the U.S. Tell G.M. to stop building vehicles in Canada,Build them here in the plants already built.Tell Ford to make breakfast for the how ever many people they have overseas building thier trucks and parts.I have a 97 Ram 1500 $x4 truck I will give you the Vin and when you run it,you find that it was built in MEXICO.You might want to have some coffee and think about who is selling who out.


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## dmontgomery

I have said it before.......apparently buy American doesn't apply to the Amercian Car builders...they buy foreign land and labor all time. But the unions here have alot to do with that also...


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## Tscape

Nascar Fan;383357 said:


> What a load of crap.Import Gasser engines are outliving american diesels.Toyota has put how many american people to work here and are going to build another plant.Wake up and tell Dodge to get out of bed with Germany's junk build here in the U.S. Tell G.M. to stop building vehicles in Canada,Build them here in the plants already built.Tell Ford to make breakfast for the how ever many people they have overseas building thier trucks and parts.I have a 97 Ram 1500 $x4 truck I will give you the Vin and when you run it,you find that it was built in MEXICO.You might want to have some coffee and think about who is selling who out.


You are dead wrong, dude. There are workers here in Detroit losing jobs because people like you can justify buying a truck made by a Japanese company. I'm not going to delve into every little detail and supply issue with you over it. The fact is American companies employ Americans. They are an important economic pillar of America. They are more invested in America than you like to admit, because you have sold out. They are failing because of foreign competition. People like you perpetuate a myth of a quality gap. That's right a myth, a falsehood, a gaddamned lie. This is an economic war, my friend, and you are a soldier. You want the big 3 to stop sourcing overseas? Buy some stock or at least buy their vehicle. Does it make you so mad that you want them out of business? Then buy a Toyota. There are thousands of people here in Detroit and thousands more across the country that have lost jobs. You don't think it's your fault because you can smugly justify the fact that _you_ are a sellout. People who think like you are a disgrace to our country. Traitors.


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## Triple L

All that I know is that my 06 silverado was manufactured in Mexico. Take a look at the VIN on the newer trucks. I forget how it goes but if it says 01 it was made in the states. 03 is for mexico. Toyota employes thousands of Canadians, right here just across the border. It's not all Jap Crap, to tell you the truth. I don't think I'll ever buy another truck made in Mexico, I've had more problems with this truck than you can shake a stick at. At least maby TRUE american or canadian made vehicles will have some quality. Hopefully GM will get thier act together with thier new trucks. The last 07 I seen was made in the states, can't say that is true for all of them though.


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## Snowbrdr360

Turfscape LLC;383376 said:


> You are dead wrong, dude. There are workers here in Detroit losing jobs because people like you can justify buying a truck made by a Japanese company. I'm not going to delve into every little detail and supply issue with you over it. The fact is American companies employ Americans. They are an important economic pillar of America. They are more invested in America than you like to admit, because you have sold out. They are failing because of foreign competition. People like you perpetuate a myth of a quality gap. That's right a myth, a falsehood, a gaddamned lie. This is an economic war, my friend, and you are a soldier. You want the big 3 to stop sourcing overseas? Buy some stock or at least buy their vehicle. Does it make you so mad that you want them out of business? Then buy a Toyota. There are thousands of people here in Detroit and thousands more across the country that have lost jobs. You don't think it's your fault because you can smugly justify the fact that _you_ are a sellout. People who think like you are a disgrace to our country. Traitors.


I fully agree with you


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## Nascar Fan

Turfscape LLC;383376 said:


> You are dead wrong, dude. There are workers here in Detroit losing jobs because people like you can justify buying a truck made by a Japanese company. I'm not going to delve into every little detail and supply issue with you over it. The fact is American companies employ Americans. They are an important economic pillar of America. They are more invested in America than you like to admit, because you have sold out. They are failing because of foreign competition. People like you perpetuate a myth of a quality gap. That's right a myth, a falsehood, a gaddamned lie. This is an economic war, my friend, and you are a soldier. You want the big 3 to stop sourcing overseas? Buy some stock or at least buy their vehicle. Does it make you so mad that you want them out of business? Then buy a Toyota. There are thousands of people here in Detroit and thousands more across the country that have lost jobs. You don't think it's your fault because you can smugly justify the fact that _you_ are a sellout. People who think like you are a disgrace to our country. Traitors.


No you are wrong.Get the damn facts straight first.You had damn well get it right first before you start name calling.I bust my ass for my community and am damn proud of that fact.People like yourself are the same one's we put ourselves into harms way for on a daily basis,and unless you have ever pulled the lifeless bodies of men/women and children out of burnt homes and have melted the gear meant to protect you trying that hard to pull people out, are totally out of line to call me a traitor to my country,state town or village,Let alone call me a disgrace to my country.We can agree/disagree/debate but you sir have WAY WAY stepped over the line with meThis debate is over this is not even worth the effort.


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## Tscape

Yeah, well if you are really as much of a hero as you claim you are, you wouldn't be contributing to the loss of American jobs and American companies. You can make it as convoluted sounding as you wish, but It's real simple: Buy American.


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## wls

May of 05, after I picked up my dodge, I was looking at the door info. It said it was assembled in Mexico, I'm open to any manufacture now. Honestly I have been looking at Toyota alot lately. Lots of standard equipment on them. The Toyota salesperson told me of course the bottom buck goes to japan, but dodges bottom buck goes to Germany, said just whatever pond you want to send you dollar over. I heard a rumor that Toyota may put a Cat diesel in there 3/4 or 1-ton when they build one, maybe in a couple years, that would be sweet.


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## Nascar Fan

Turfscape LLC;383622 said:


> Yeah, well if you are really as much of a hero as you claim you are, you wouldn't be contributing to the loss of American jobs and American companies. You can make it as convoluted sounding as you wish, but It's real simple: Buy American.


I have to justify nothing to you .But you are a total complete ass.You have no idea of the way economics work.You really think that if for some magical reason Toyota were to stop selling cars the companies would build here again?Your head is so far up your ignorant ass if you farted you would suffocate.You want the companies to build here again,It's real simple.Get rid of the unions.thats what choking the money flow.


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## Yaz

Just because someone is a fireman/policeman or even teacher, It doesn't give them the right to say what you do is all for America. Some guys just love to help people in general. But are they a better citizen to there community than Mexican or Canadian Fireman is to theirs? I think not. Please don't mix this topic up to say we are good Americans because our JOBs are to fight fires and pull people from car wrecks or even teach children. That is just dumb. We don't force people to fight fires. It's your choice..Wait..why don't you find a safer job like building cars.. O wait a minute, your paycheck would say Toyota LTD. JAPAN on it lol. Let me say it so there is no question... I appreciated all the great things firefighters/policemen do, we are lucky that there are people that want to do it. 

I happen to agree with Turfscape LLC. Spend some time and read other post here with open mind. See why we can't get unions out so easy and how unions help people as well. Toyota here are not built here to benifit any American, this it fact . yes some Americans take advantage of the jobs but in realty they are built here because The foreign car company's are avoiding Tariffs and only do the final assembly here to avoid paying taxes.More profit goes back to their county.

PS. Remember...Calling people here names like (ass) is not OK. Read the rules of the forum. If you don't agree with someone please just say why, and cut the personal attacks.

Here is a quote for the rules of this site: You are not permitted to harass other members at PlowSite.com. This includes offensive remarks or remarks that attempt to provoke another member. Sarcastic baiting is also not permitted. If you disagree with someone, state why, but do not resort to name calling, threats, etc…


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## Nascar Fan

Yaz;383649 said:


> I think someone here is so full of it( or should I say full of yourself) come on just because someone is a fireman/policeman or even teacher, It doesn't give them the right to say what you do is all for America. Some guys just love to help people in general. But are they a better citizen to there community than Mexican or Canadian Fireman is to theirs? I think not. Please don't mix this topic up to say we are good Americans because our JOBs are to fight fires and pull people from car wrecks or even teach children. That is just dumb. We don't force people to fight fires. It your choice..why don't you find a safer job like building cars.. O wait, your paycheck would say Toyota LTD. JAPAN on it. Let me say it again, I appreciated all the great things firefighters/policemen do, we are lucky that there are people that want to do it.
> 
> I happen to agree with Turfscape LLC. Spend some time and read other post here with open mind. See why we can't get unions out so easy and how unions help people as well. Toyota here are not built here to benifit any American, this it fact . yes some Americans take advantage of the jobs but in realty they are built here because The foreign car company's are avoiding Tariffs and only do the final assembly here to avoid paying taxes.More profit goes back to their county.
> 
> PS. Remember...Calling people here names like (ass) is not OK. Read the rules of the forum. If you don't agree with someone please just say why, and cut the personal attacks.


Sorry feel that way .I do not get paid to fight fire.I said That what I do for my community is help people and americans in general,by fighting fires and everything else associated with it.Traitors and sellouts do not put back into thier communities.I would rather be called an ass than sellout or traitor anyday. that because someone else is calling me names first in the way of traitor and sellout.I did not start the name calling but I will not tolorate it either.You want to agree with him thats you decision and that is fine.You should go back and re-read the whole thing where this topic was started as the possibility that Toyota may build a true 3/4 ton truck.I have an open mind to all of it.I guess then all the americans that woirk for Toyota should quit or be labeled as traitors or sellouts too.


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## YardMedic

Can't we all just get along? How about buying the trucks that are going to do the job we want? Merits go in both favors here. I love nothing more than supporting domestic manufacturing, but I have to admit I know nothing about where my GMC was built or from which nation it's gotten its technology. I have brand loyalty, and I've never purchased anything other than GM trucks. I am perhaps very narrow-minded in this way because I haven't tried anything different. I know I've paid too much to stay with GM, as I know I can purchase a Ford or Dodge for less, and possibly a heavy duty 'yota when they come out. It would seem to me that manufacturers are choosing to use foreign plants for cheaper labor and/or materials, and if that allows for a cheaper product then I'm cool with it no matter which manufacturer.


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## Flipper

I don't get this, they are all publically traded companies. They make money for the shareholders. According to Toyota themselves in the annual report the majority of their shares are held by U.S. shareholders. I own stock in Toyota, also GE, Phillip Morris and several US utility companies. They all make money for me. I got rid of my GM stock long ago.

We live in a global economy. You are losing jobs in Michigan now as the unionized car market declines. I get it and it sucks. Guess what it happens. 

Where I live use to be the main manufacturing area for, Kimberly Clark paper products, Stetson and other Hats, IBM, Union Carbide, Pratt and Whitney, Sikorsky, Electric Boat and many other companies. Most now are just a shell of what they used to be, the offices are still here but most blue collar work is subbed out, much of it overseas. I know a lot of people who had to retrain or return for more education. Guess what? They did it and now are successful somewhere else. Many of these companies are government contractors. Going to blame Toyota? Blame our own government and our own people. In the push for higher education, bigger paychecks etc we have moved ourselves right out of manufacturing. We are the premier country. Simple economics would dictate we pay for goods rather then produce them.

Buy American is too little to late. A better idea would be to invest in companies that want to SELL in America. Ever hear of build a better mousetrap?


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## Nascar Fan

YardMedic;383661 said:


> Can't we all just get along? How about buying the trucks that are going to do the job we want? Merits go in both favors here. I love nothing more than supporting domestic manufacturing, but I have to admit I know nothing about where my GMC was built or from which nation it's gotten its technology. I have brand loyalty, and I've never purchased anything other than GM trucks. I am perhaps very narrow-minded in this way because I haven't tried anything different. I know I've paid too much to stay with GM, as I know I can purchase a Ford or Dodge for less, and possibly a heavy duty 'yota when they come out. It would seem to me that manufacturers are choosing to use foreign plants for cheaper labor and/or materials, and if that allows for a cheaper product then I'm cool with it no matter which manufacturer.


I give up on it.


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## Tscape

Look, I will qualify what I said to a degree. I am not trying to call anybody something that is a fundamental insult. But in the context of the discussion, that being foreign vs. domestic manufacturing of automobiles, I am saying that the issue has been clouded since the 70's by arguments about a quality gap. Now the argument is further clouded by the big three outsourcing parts from foreign companies or even final assembly in a foreign country. These issues are all complex and really ancillary to the fact that everybody in America needs to pull together and spend their dollars at home on products that are preferably made by their countrymen or at least by companies that employ their countrymen and are historically American.

I'm glad that Nascarfan is a fireman. It obviously makes him very proud. But the point here is that if you give your money, your economic power, your bullets in this war to foreign automakers then on a very fundamental level, you have sold out to the enemy. Now call me a jerk if it helps you sleep at night, but it's the truth.

*Buy* *American!*
(I am in no way associated with any labor union)


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## Nascar Fan

Turfscape LLC;383707 said:


> Look, I will qualify what I said to a degree. I am not trying to call anybody something that is a fundamental insult. But in the context of the discussion, that being foreign vs. domestic manufacturing of automobiles, I am saying that the issue has been clouded since the 70's by arguments about a quality gap. Now the argument is further clouded by the big three outsourcing parts from foreign companies or even final assembly in a foreign country. These issues are all complex and really ancillary to the fact that everybody in America needs to pull together and spend their dollars at home on products that are preferably made by their countrymen or at least by companies that employ their countrymen and are historically American.
> 
> I'm glad that Nascarfan is a fireman. It obviously makes him very proud. But the point here is that if you give your money, your economic power, your bullets in this war to foreign automakers then on a very fundamental level, you have sold out to the enemy. Now call me a jerk if it helps you sleep at night, but it's the truth.
> 
> *Buy* *American!*
> (I am in no way associated with any labor union)


I am not calling you anything worse than I was called.Furthermore the insults really only piss everyone off and it turnes into a war of words and the basic discussion goes without being discussed.That said I think this is where we go our seperate way.:

I disagree with the following:First and foremost the quality issue.There is no way you can compare the price of say a Camry vs.say a Taurus.Both a basically a family sedan.How many transmissions were-and still are being rebuilt in the taurus?How about the 3.8 ford there was a recall for them-but only until odometer hits 100,000 miles.Now how many Trannies went in a Camry?How many head gaskets?--I will say the Toyota V6 also had the same issue and Toyota did recall them too-but 225,000 miles on a Taurus is great--but not common.Toyota's run another 100,000 past that.I am talking about overall sales numbers,Not JUST you uncle Bill who happened to get 300,000 on one.I have to eat but will finish this later.


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## Flipper

Quality isn't even that big of a deal anymore to buyers. I know very few people, even poorer people who keep cars more then 5-7 years. Although I think resale value come into the quality play.

Quantity is the bigger issue. Spend the same money on an American cars and a Toyota or Nissan, the foreign car will give you all the features you thought only came on luxury cars. Multiple airbags, 10+ speaker stereos, GPS, power everything, cupholders etc The dash of a Camry, Maxima, Tacoma or Frontier is loaded with guages, controls. The dash of a Taurus (last I saw maybe a 98) looked as barren as when my uncle had on3 in 88, the whole car looked about the same as a matter a fact.

Take the Corrolla another model that is like 30+ years old, With the exception of the Mustang (which is in a different class) What economy car has last that long in the modern era? It is because it has evolved. My mother had an 81 Corolla that at the time was so much better then the 80 Chevette my aunt had, Better mileage, comfort, stereo, etc.

Now you can still get a Corolla which get good mileage is a safe car (almost as much as the comparitive Civic) loaded with features compare that to say a Chevy Malibu or Ford Focus, I don't think it adds up.

By the way I will commend GM for having a stock remote start on models (I forget which), the first manufacturer that I know of to offer it. BUT as I said, to little to late.


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## Tscape

The Ford 5.0 liter pushrod engine will last as long as any Toyota engine. The 5.8 liter is super strong as well. The 460 was fantastic. The 7.3 liter diesel is an incredible engine. The GM 3.8, 350, LS1, on and on.....

How many 80's Hondas or Toyotas are still driving around? Not very many at all. They all rusted out or deteriorated beyond repair. I pass an 80's Lincoln, Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler or Dodge on the freeway every couple of minutes and I live in the rust belt. They may not be much to look at, but they are there.

You are just saying the same old thing that every sellout has said since the 70's. I know you personally are never going to hear me, but WAKE UP America!

*BUY* American!


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## Tscape

Flipper said:


> Take the Corrolla another model that is like 30+ years old, With the exception of the Mustang (which is in a different class) What economy car has last that long in the modern era?
> 
> 
> 
> Take the Corrolla another model that is like 30+ years old, With the exception of the Mustang (which is in a different class)
> 
> Lincoln Town Car, Continental
> Ford F150
> Chevrolet Corvette, Camaro
> Buick Century, LeSabre
> Olds Cutlass
> 
> Now these aren't all still around, though many are, but they had 30 year runs. These are all I could think of in 2 minutes (and my wife just got home).
Click to expand...


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## Nascar Fan

Ok as I was saying,It really gets to me when I hear people say yeah the Neon was common for Eating head Gaskets every 60,000 miles,or the early (pre 88) 2.8 chevy v6 to eat a crankshaft or the even the Ford 5.4 to blow spark plugs out of the head,the V10 to split the exhaust manifolds,Dodge trucks to go through a transmission,Ford 4.2 v6is common to develop a leak in the intake gasket and/or head hasket and when these engines do this it does and will--not always but yes a lot have bend the connecting rods.This is all happening while the payment books are still far from finished the owners screaming at labor cost's -(it's not cheap) dealer sevice dept's saying yeah it's been common for a while but unless the Manufacturer does a recall-there is nothing we can do,Now will that engine,transmission be cash,credit or second mortgage?If the Manufacturer's would stop denying that there is a problem and fix them,and get quality control under control instead of the generic:We the manufacturer have a great lineup of vehicles and you have an isolated incident,(while every vehicle of the same manufacture at work has done the same exact thing) sorry we cant help you further thanks for buying from us.....I have many,many more common problems for vehicles but I think you get what I am saying.
Second point,I cannot understand why it's ok for the big three to outsource jobs to other countries for parts or assembly or sell out majority ownership(ie Daimler Chrysler) while it's not ok for Toyota to build and assemble here in the U.S.I fail to see a difference.YES I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE DAYS WHERE EVERYTHING WAS BUILT AND MANUFACTURED HERE IN THE U.S.I really do but I am not going to hold my breath either.But back to the point you said about outsourcing parts,why is it different for me to goto one of the big three dealership buy an altenator vs going to Napa?Either way the money is going back overseas,wheather it's to build more altenators or the parts that are in it.when (or will for that matter) the Manufacturer's could get themselves priced back into the market with parts and stand behind what they sell?Instead of trying to recoup thier money on parts and service they need to fix the problem that keeps breaking to begin with.Would it be better if Toyota shut down thier plants lay off the American workers here go back overseas and just continue to sell cars overhere the way they used to?I am sure that money is going back overseas when you buy a Toyota,no question there,but then again they are paying taxes here and the people who are dependant on tha paycheck from building the Tundra truck here also contribute to the economy here too.I am not pro or con union,but I also see why it's really what it looks like is the union is choking the golden goose.


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## Nascar Fan

The Ford 5.0 liter pushrod engine will last as long as any Toyota engine. The 5.8 liter is super strong as well. The 460 was fantastic. The 7.3 liter diesel is an incredible engine. The GM 3.8, 350, LS1, on and on.....


Yes they were all decent engines,but the 5.0 along with others--(the 2.9 V6 just one example) during a 5 year span all had plastic timing gears.Now if you were fortunate enough to only have it jump time and stall out you were lucky,but not all of them did.A lot of them engines went to an early grave with plastic pieces from the timing gears in the oil pump that wiped out the rods and mains because of oil starvation.The 7.3 yes I agree with you is a great motor.but there are a lot of cases where the oil pans rotted out (these were by far not the only engine that Ford had this problem with) and removing the motor is not cheap and really is an engineering stupidity that should be fixed.Ford did not build the 7.3-International did. but that is really not relevant to this.Yes the 5.8 is good the 7.3 is good the 460 is I gotta say one of Fords best(torque monster when built right)G.m the 3.8 eats intake gaskets,a lot of head gaskets on these went early as well as the fuel systems on the early Duramax -that was built by Isuzu/Penske-again irrelevant,but just being correct here.the 5.7 is good,most all the LATE model Vortec engines were goo-pre 1998 4.3 with that spider injection system was as common as a cold to fail and $$$ to buy parts for.
Dodge with the Cummins engine but the transmissions made better boat anchors.The 2.0 Neon/Breeze/Stratus I have bought many of these because of the head gaskets being blown,fixed them and resell em quick because they are good on gas.

The real point isnt to pick on you or to say your wrong with your picks it's that there are a lot of problems with all these vehicles when you compare the vehicles reliability/service record/resale value to the stuff from overseas puts out even the last 20 years.Like I said earlier if Ford/Dodge/G.M. would stop lying fix the problem and get some quality back into thier stuff,get the prices of parts and service back into line and really take care of people when it comes time I bet Toyota would not have plants here now.If they can build it right,price it right and make it right HERE they (the people) would buy it.


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## Nascar Fan

pass an 80's Lincoln, Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler or Dodge on the freeway every couple of minutes and I live in the rust belt. They may not be much to look at, but they are there.

I think this brings home my point about parts.Parts for these cars is available at any auto parts store and even used parts are still around,and are far,far,far cheaper than buying them from the dealer but again we are back at the stalemate of buying it from the dealer is giving the money to outsourced materials and assembly plants at way overinflated prices VS.buying from say Advance Auto Parts or Napa when it's made by the same outsourced companies and all your doing is price shopping them all.


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## Flipper

None of those cars would be considered economy. Sure they are still around because it takes salt a lot longer to rust through the 3000lbs frames then it does the thinner 1000lbs fuel economic thinner frames of the Corolla. 

With all the gas that guy in a 1980s Lincoln is burning he could by a Corolla every two years and be making just as much HP from the 4cyl as that old emission restricted V-8 is.

Not one of those engines iswhat I woul consider fuel efficient.

When Chevy made the Nova in the late 80s it was a rebadged Corolla, Ford has done the same with models. American companies cannot produce a small fuel efficient engine that makes good HP. My wife's Pathfinder get 22+ MPG and makes 260HP I think from a V-6. Compare that to an Explorer or Blazer both are around 16-17.


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## Tscape

Flipper;383756 said:


> None of those cars would be considered economy.
> Not one of those engines iswhat I woul consider fuel efficient.
> 
> My wife's Pathfinder get 22+ MPG and makes 260HP I think from a V-6. Compare that to an Explorer or Blazer both are around 16-17.


Obviously America was a late comer to the economy market, but the escort had a 20 something year run, not shabby. I am pretty sure we are talking about trucks though. Now the Japs were into small trucks from way back and again, there are more old Rangers than Nissans or Toyotas.

To your second point, My Lincoln Mark VII with it's stock 5.0 got 22 mpg overall, city and highway averaged in. That's in a 4000lb car. I have since put a 347 stroker from Coast High Performance into it, and I have to tell you, it's still over 20mpg.

I just think that guys like you are convinced that foreign cars are better. You're wrong, but you're convinced you are right. What makes it worse is that you preach your misinformation and perpetuate the myth. For this reason I stand by my statement. You are subversive and un- American. The great thing about this country is that you are free to be that way, so enjoy it.


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## Nascar Fan

just think that guys like you are convinced that foreign cars are better. You're wrong, but you're convinced you are right. What makes it worse is that you preach your misinformation and perpetuate the myth. For this reason I stand by my statement. You are subversive and un- American. The great thing about this country is that you are free to be that way, so enjoy it.


And I think you are a racist against competition and the free market and a closed minded minded biggot unable to handle the fact that the U.S. is getting beat and it does need to be fixed with logical thinking,like how do we build a better product,sell it make a profit and let the cutomers know we actually care when you need something.Not the you gotta buy this,it's(sometimes) made in the U.S. with outsourced parts,and thats ok,and if something does go wrong they can deny any wrong doing. When they fix it with using outsourced parts again,it's ok.The only thing thats 100% American on any vehicle today is the name on the grill and the cash used to buy it so I see no difference.


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## Nascar Fan

American companies cannot produce a small fuel efficient engine that makes good HP

I disagree with that.Are we talking 4 6 or 8 cyl?Gm's 2.5 turbo'd engine gets real good mileage and is a real quick car-for a 4cyl.


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## Tscape

I'm a racist and a biggot?? That's laughable. I can tell that you are an emotional, go for the gut kind of guy, but now you are just being ridiculous. I'm a patriot and a jingoist, but I'm not hating on anyone (except maybe you). Keep it real Superman.

Good point about the turbo motor. The Mustang and Thunderbird's turbocharged 2.3 was divine and a pleasure to drive. Go snatch up an SVO or a Turbocoupe while they are still the best kept secret.

Also to correct another mis-statement(..ERRR LIE) you made earlier, the 5.0 has a billet double roller timing chain from the factory. Plastic..pshaww! That engine also has forged pistons, rods, and crankshaft. Plastic...yer cracking me up.

This whole discussion has gotten drole, plus I think you have been vanquished, so I'm going to check out. I hope you can sleep easy perpetuating lies and contributing to the loss of your own countrymen's ( the worl'd most racially diverse population BTW) jobs. Ciao! (That's Italian. I'm Irish-American)


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## Nascar Fan

Turfscape LLC;383777 said:


> I'm a racist and a biggot?? That's laughable. I can tell that you are an emotional, go for the gut kind of guy, but now you are just being ridiculous. I'm a patriot and a jingoist, but I'm not hating on anyone (except maybe you). Keep it real Superman.
> 
> Good point about the turbo motor. The Mustang and Thunderbird's turbocharged 2.3 was divine and a pleasure to drive. Go snatch up an SVO or a Turbocoupe while they are still the best kept secret.
> 
> Also to correct another mis-statement(..ERRR LIE) you made earlier, the 5.0 has a billet double roller timing chain from the factory. Plastic..pshaww! That engine also has forged pistons, rods, and crankshaft. Plastic...yer cracking me up.
> 
> This whole discussion has gotten drole, plus I think you have been vanquished, so I'm going to check out. I hope you can sleep easy perpetuating lies and contributing to the loss of your own countrymen's ( the worl'd most racially diverse population BTW) jobs. Ciao! (That's Italian. I'm Irish-American)


Also I went and looked up the definition of bigot and here it is:A person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.source: dictionary.com

Here is a link for your steel 5.0 motors always being steel WRONG!http://groups.google.com/group/rec....ic+timing+gears&rnum=3&hl=en#ed2ddd221c407058 I even copied the text for you.
Drive it and don't worry. If you really do take good care of it it 
may well go another 82k without any problems. (Oops, forgot, I changed 
the timing chain set awhile ago...earlier Ford 302's used a plastic 
gear set [go figure], but I understand that was short lived

Know what?This whole thing has gotten old and i am tired of of it myself.I do sleep very well thank you for your concern and btw the Ford turbo coupe is good,but the best Kept secret is the Buick GNX.I am sorry to hear you actually hate me,because GOD FORBID REALLY that the situation ever happend that you needed this "superman" I would be there as quickly as I could to help you out still.


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## Niteman9

Nascar Fan;383357 said:


> What a load of crap.Import Gasser engines are outliving american diesels.Toyota has put how many american people to work here and are going to build another plant.Wake up and tell Dodge to get out of bed with Germany's junk build here in the U.S. Tell G.M. to stop building vehicles in Canada,Build them here in the plants already built.Tell Ford to make breakfast for the how ever many people they have overseas building thier trucks and parts.I have a 97 Ram 1500 $x4 truck I will give you the Vin and when you run it,you find that it was built in MEXICO.You might want to have some coffee and think about who is selling who out.


Ya the only problem is the people they put to work can not even afford to by the cars and trucks they make with the wages they pay them. At one time I worked for a company which was owned by a Japanese company and most people do not know the games they play. On is for the parent company to over charge for parts like engines. This way the "American" division does not make a profit and pays no US taxes.

I see by your name you are a Nascar Fan. The Toyotas are realy burning up the tracks hu.


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## Nascar Fan

Niteman9;383801 said:


> Ya the only problem is the people they put to work can not even afford to by the cars and trucks they make with the wages they pay them. At one time I worked for a company which was owned by a Japanese company and most people do not know the games they play. On is for the parent company to over charge for parts like engines. This way the "American" division does not make a profit and pays no US taxes.
> 
> I see by your name you are a Nascar Fan. The Toyotas are realy burning up the tracks hu.


Wait a minute here.First off I am not a Toyota fan.I am Talking about the rhetoric saying that it's ok for American vehicles to be outsourced while Toyota is building plants here.As far as working there and not making enough to buy a vehicle that they are making,I can't afford a vehicle.I can't blame my employer for it(the pay does stink) and I want to but if it wasn't a secure job I would leave.I cannot blame my compant for not paying enough I can (hopefully will be able to) exercise my right to quit,find better paying job and get through life.Yeah Toyota's debut has really been funny.All that money to go nowhere fast-pun intended.I will say that IF Toyota(or any company) is not paying taxes,or at least thier fair share,I will totally take everything back I have said about them being a good business partner for the U.S. ---I WILL SAY IT AGAIN:SO LONG AS IT'S FACT-AND I AM TAKING YOUR WORDS AS TRUTH NITEMAN. IF TOYOTA OR ANY COMPANY IS NOT PAYING TAXES OR IS NOT PAYING THIER FAIR SHARE,I WILL SAY I AM SORRY TO EVERYONE AND WRONG FOR DEFENDING THEM DOING BUSINESS HERE.


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## brian12281

sorry just had to chime in. Regarding the 5.0 litre dont believe everything you read on the internet. Trust me they never ever used a plastic timing gear set. The post from your link, that person may have hit the crack pipe one too many times. I know these motors very well could probly rebuild one blindfolded and with my toes well not really but they have always been double roller chains. Anyone by chance see the new towing specs on the new f-150 11,000lbs hmmm i believe the tundra was at 10,800 not trying to bash just a statement. Turfscape im a Detroiter and well you know my opinion!


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## Nascar Fan

brian12281;383823 said:


> sorry just had to chime in. Regarding the 5.0 litre dont believe everything you read on the internet. Trust me they never ever used a plastic timing gear set. The post from your link, that person may have hit the crack pipe one too many times. I know these motors very well could probly rebuild one blindfolded and with my toes well not really but they have always been double roller chains. Anyone by chance see the new towing specs on the new f-150 11,000lbs hmmm i believe the tundra was at 10,800 not trying to bash just a statement. Turfscape im a Detroiter and well you know my opinion!


Well I do not smoke crack but I personally have swapped out the nylon gears in these motors.It was in a Mercury Cougar(back when they were still wheel wheel drive and made a decent coupe).They were a tough motor but Ford went with the nylon gear timing set because they were quieter.I posted that link to show that indeed it did happen.I will say It was wrong to say it was over a ten year duration.It was not-not even close but it did happen.I know about rebuilding engines also.I still rebuild them now.(97 5.2 with the dreaded #8 head crack coolant into the motor bend a rod failure that is also a myth to Dodge,but it's been on 3 out of the 15 of the vehicles at work,same motor (Dodge 5.2) but I get "they are bullet proof)" My point is why is it ok to outsource our jobs of parts or assembly of vehicles or merge with overseas companies altogether?I really do not get it.You cannot call Ford G.M. or Dodge american companies.They have American employees (getting laid off at an alarming rate).I do have a question,JUST ASKING NOT BASHING Why can't say Ford or G.M. file bankrupcy,disperse the union,have investors step in take it over and start building cars with parts and assembly 100% in the U.S.?getting all the parts that are manufactured in the U.S. may be tough.


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## Nascar Fan

*More proof of Plastic Gears*

I did was Google Ford 5.0 plastic timing gears.Try it yourself and you will see I am not smoking crack.Thanks

The Ford 5.0 engines had many really stupid features also, like plastic timing chain gears that shed teeth with a harsh word .


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## brian12281

Uhhhh im not gonna waste my breath but now i realize what im dealing with. Just because u did a search does noe mean its true. Go over to corral or stangnet they will give you your answer, but i'll save you the time and tell you again they never never had plastic timing gears. It is ok to admit your wrong sometimes sorry.


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## Nascar Fan

brian12281;383874 said:


> Uhhhh im not gonna waste my breath but now i realize what im dealing with. Just because u did a search does noe mean its true. Go over to corral or stangnet they will give you your answer, but i'll save you the time and tell you again they never never had plastic timing gears. It is ok to admit your wrong sometimes sorry.


I have no problem admitting I am wrong.But's also ok to say I did not know that.As I am sure you did not.


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## brian12281

Oh I know!!!!!


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## Tscape

And I know that you know. And you know that I know.


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## Nascar Fan

I have an honest question.I have done a lot of thinking on this,and the only comparison that I can come up with on this is:If you look at another company that mass produces transportation,and is U.S. built who would it be?I came up with Harley Davidson.Now back even 10 years ago,it seemed the Imports were going to just destroy them.They went throught the AMF years,Craftsman air compressors had more HP and better reliability than the AMF bike,and all through the 80's people were not buying them--not in the numbers that the imports were selling at, yet they made it into a huge profitable company now with record sales numbers,waiting lines for bikes.They did outsource parts,Ignitions and carbs,The VRod engine is designed by Porsche.It's Kind of the same as The Ford SHO Taurus being engineered by Yamaha.I still think of Harley Davidson as an American company,and it's refreshing to hear the sales numbers,reliability ratings are not even comparable to what they used to be.A Harley nowadays seems to be just as reliable as anything out there(Relative terms-an oil/air twin cruiser).Thier prices are insane BUT they hold thier resale value much better than an import bike.If I am correct in this analogy,Then I apologize for being wrong on the car production aspect because it is the same.It just sucks we can't/wont build ALL parts here in the U.S.


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## Nascar Fan

Your trying to convince me you know for sure you know evrything Ford used in an engine,by basically telling everyone else they have no proof(or you just dont like the source is more like it) and they dont know what they are talking about.I am sorry I did not take pictures of the junk set for you to look at,but then you would just asy It came out of something different or someone else put in it to begin with


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## Nascar Fan

Nascar Fan;383903 said:


> I have an honest question.I have done a lot of thinking on this,and the only comparison that I can come up with on this is:If you look at another company that mass produces transportation,and is U.S. built who would it be?I came up with Harley Davidson.Now back even 10 years ago,it seemed the Imports were going to just destroy them.They went throught the AMF years,Craftsman air compressors had more HP and better reliability than the AMF bike,and all through the 80's people were not buying them--not in the numbers that the imports were selling at, yet they made it into a huge profitable company now with record sales numbers,waiting lines for bikes.They did outsource parts,Ignitions and carbs,The VRod engine is designed by Porsche.It's Kind of the same as The Ford SHO Taurus being engineered by Yamaha.I still think of Harley Davidson as an American company,and it's refreshing to hear the sales numbers,reliability ratings are not even comparable to what they used to be.A Harley nowadays seems to be just as reliable as anything out there(Relative terms-an oil/air twin cruiser).Thier prices are insane BUT they hold thier resale value much better than an import bike.If I am correct in this analogy,Then I apologize for being wrong on the car production aspect because it is the same.It just sucks we can't/wont build ALL parts here in the U.S.


by the way How does company fix this like Harley did??


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## Nascar Fan

brian12281;383823 said:


> sorry just had to chime in. Regarding the 5.0 litre dont believe everything you read on the internet. Trust me they never ever used a plastic timing gear set. The post from your link, that person may have hit the crack pipe one too many times. I know these motors very well could probly rebuild one blindfolded and with my toes well not really but they have always been double roller chains. Anyone by chance see the new towing specs on the new f-150 11,000lbs hmmm i believe the tundra was at 10,800 not trying to bash just a statement. Turfscape im a Detroiter and well you know my opinion!


Here you are.You tell these guys that they know nothing and are on crack.Really it's a good site I just subscribed to it. http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/al...y-oil-pan_48431.html?word=Plastic+timing+gear


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## Tscape

Nascar Fan;383905 said:


> Your trying to convince me you know for sure you know evrything Ford used in an engine,by basically telling everyone else they have no proof(or you just dont like the source is more like it) and they dont know what they are talking about.I am sorry I did not take pictures of the junk set for you to look at,but then you would just asy It came out of something different or someone else put in it to begin with


I know a 5.0 inside and out. I'm telling you it _never_ had a nylon timing gear set. You are talking out of your arse quoting dudes who are talking about a 1970 390. This is proof to me that you will never, ever listen. 
You buy a Toyota truck = You are a sellout*.*


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## Yaz

He's right Nascarfan it's a 390. Just admit it and go on. You're reaching doing searches on the net. Your persistent is wonderful but you know this site is most likely made up 99 percent gear heads. I don't think your old enough to to know all your old motors like some guys here. 

I thinking this post should just be wiped out, it just beading hate among members. 

Guys...Go help people here with plow problems and stop getting you blood pressure up.


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## Yaz

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