# Snow blowing/ First Time



## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Alright so I'm a newbie at the game. In High School actually. Live in Good ole Norfolk. Home of the Navy's fleet. Doing this mostly to make good cash so I can be my ambitious self and invest in the stock market. I'm thinking about renting a skid steer from a CAT dealer and finding a decently priced snowblower. Thinking about getting a Spartan Equipment or a Erskine snowblower. 

Which one is cheaper and better? I'm getting a crew of friends together and subcontracting for a family friend. 
Does 75% me and my friends and 25% the Contractor sound appropriate? 
How much salt should I lay and where to get it? what brand salt spreader should I get? 
Can everything be paid off in one winter and still come out with a profit considering it snows 3-4 times and I hustle my ass doing 30+ contracts? 
How much should I aim to charge local businesses (restaurants, dentist offices, gas stations etc) since it doesn't snow that much compared to where y'all seem to be? 

Can I please get as much advice as possible? Please no BS joking.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

757Snowman;2054598 said:


> Alright so I'm a newbie at the game. In High School actually. Live in Good ole Norfolk. Home of the Navy's fleet. Doing this mostly to make good cash so I can be my ambitious self and invest in the stock market. I'm thinking about renting a skid steer from a CAT dealer and finding a decently priced snowblower. Thinking about getting a Spartan Equipment or a Erskine snowblower.
> 
> Which one is cheaper and better? I'm getting a crew of friends together and subcontracting for a family friend.
> Does 75% me and my friends and 25% the Contractor sound appropriate?
> ...


Yes
Maybe.
Do you have a LLC 
Do you have insurance.
Your friends, do they work for you or they contractors also?

Who going to work when your in school and it's snowing.

Lately , have you asked your mom?
Becuse without Her signature your not getting that cat or the blower....no joke....


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

SnoFarmer;2054602 said:


> Yes
> Maybe.
> Do you have a LLC
> Do you have insurance.
> ...


So basically I'm trying to do this cash only/ get paid with one check from the family friend that has a landscaping business.No LLC. I thought subcontracting you don't need to necessarily have insurance and rather you are covered under who you work for?

In terms of school thats a simple throw out. In Naw**** as we say, everything shuts down. like what you northerners call a little(2-3 inches) will literally shut the entire 757 down for 2 days.

I can negotiate stuff with the landscaper friend for renting under his business.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

757Snowman;2054610 said:


> So basically I'm trying to do this cash only/ get paid with one check from the family friend that has a landscaping business.No LLC. I thought subcontracting you don't need to necessarily have insurance and rather you are covered under who you work for?
> 
> In terms of school thats a simple throw out. In Naw**** as we say, everything shuts down. like what you northerners call a little(2-3 inches) will literally shut the entire 757 down for 2 days.
> 
> I can negotiate stuff with the landscaper friend for renting under his business.


 How old are you? Not much you can do under 18. Also the no insurance isn't a good idea. Honestly, the whole thing isn't a good idea. Lot to invest for someone still in school, and A LOT to risk, not just for you, but for your whole family.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

So you want help from legitimate businessmen who pay taxes
Pay for insurance , workmans comp etc etc so you can lowball them?

And You want to comment tax fraud, 

You can go to jail over what you want to do.... No joke.

Or wake up with 4 flat tires .....
Every time it snows
No joke.....

Folks in the industry don't take lightly to your kind...


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

JMHConstruction;2054612 said:


> How old are you? Not much you can do under 18. Also the no insurance isn't a good idea. Honestly, the whole thing isn't a good idea. Lot to invest for someone still in school, and A LOT to risk, not just for you, but for your whole family.


Im 17.
at 450 per lot and doing 35 lots and doing that 4 times, thats 63k. give 25% cut to landscaper, thats 47.25k half that for me, looks like I got me a nice stock portfolio.

Side note, if you guys do a lot of investing with your money. I recommend buying a lot of euros. its 1.0769. its going to go up to 1.25 range when the US market goes to the pooper soon...


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

SnoFarmer;2054613 said:


> So you want help from legitimate businessmen who pay taxes
> Pay for insurance , workmans comp etc etc so you can lowball them?
> 
> And You want to comment tax fraud,
> ...


I'm at least going to be decent and have the landscaper cut whatever taxes out. Fine if I sound like a cheap crappy person I'll hit the 50-50 mark? This is the south, not mafia run NY. We here are decent people.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

There's just WAY too many questions in there to answer. "Which brand is cheaper, better"? One doesn't necessarily equal the other. How are you going to sub for a family friend and have your own contracts as well? How do you plan on leasing a skidsteer? You're a minor, correct? And if you're a minor, how do you plan on getting insurance? If you've got one skidsteer, what are your "crew of friends" going to be doing? And as snofarmer asked, most importantly what are you going to do when you have school and it's snowing??? You do realize that a blower for a skid will cost you THOUSANDS, right? That 75%-25% stuff doesn't mean crap. If you're subbing, it comes down to whatever your family friend is willing to pay you for your services. Is spreading salt a part of whatever your contract will be? How will you buy it, bagged or bulk? Are you just going to use walk behind, drop spreaders or buy a truck with a Vbox? If it only snows 3-4 times, it will take you YEARS to pay for your equipment, much less make a profit. We couldn't tell you how to price restaurants, dentist's offices, gas stations etc...because we don't know how large they are, if they want seasonal or per push pricing. Bottom line is, you sound ambitious which is good, but you're in way over your head. You're also probably too late in the Season to even think about an undertaking like this. You'd be better off to buy a walk behind snowblower and stick to your neighborhood driveways and such. And I'm not even sure how you'll do that if you're in school while it's snowing. Also, snow removal isn't a "game", it's a business and should be run as professionally as possible.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

757Snowman;2054617 said:


> Im 17.
> at 450 per lot and doing 35 lots and doing that 4 times, thats 63k. give 25% cut to landscaper, thats 47.25k half that for me


Until someone slips...Or your friends get hurt. Last post to you my friend, let me know how the season works out for you.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

And I'm going to jump all over taking stock/commodity/exchange tips from a 17 year old.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Harleyjeff;2054619 said:


> There's just WAY too many questions in there to answer. "Which brand is cheaper, better"? One doesn't necessarily equal the other. How are you going to sub for a family friend and have your own contracts as well? How do you plan on leasing a skidsteer? You're a minor, correct? And if you're a minor, how do you plan on getting insurance? If you've got one skidsteer, what are your "crew of friends" going to be doing? And as snofarmer asked, most importantly what are you going to do when you have school and it's snowing??? You do realize that a blower for a skid will cost you THOUSANDS, right? That 75%-25% stuff doesn't mean crap. If you're subbing, it comes down to whatever your family friend is willing to pay you for your services. Is spreading salt a part of whatever your contract will be? How will you buy it, bagged or bulk? Are you just going to use walk behind, drop spreaders or buy a truck with a Vbox? If it only snows 3-4 times, it will take you YEARS to pay for your equipment, much less make a profit. We couldn't tell you how to price restaurants, dentist's offices, gas stations etc...because we don't know how large they are, if they want seasonal or per push pricing. Bottom line is, you sound ambitious which is good, but you're in way over your head. You're also probably too late in the Season to even think about an undertaking like this. You'd be better off to buy a walk behind snowblower and stick to your neighborhood driveways and such. And I'm not even sure how you'll do that if you're in school while it's snowing. Also, snow removal isn't a "game", it's a business and should be run as professionally as possible.


Like I said, it shuts down over here when it snows. I'd get my crew to be doing the salting and sidewalk cleanup. One of my friends has a truck that I was planning on having him hitch a salt spreader to. I can get salt by the pallet for 550 each. It doesn't start to snow until january or febuary. That has been consistent past 8 years. Like I said it would be avg. 450 per job
and 35 jobs times 4 snow events, 63k thats enough to pay off equipment.

Walk behind snowblower=slower= less productivity and less profit


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Harleyjeff;2054623 said:


> And I'm going to jump all over taking stock/commodity/exchange tips from a 17 year old.


Made 3.5k from 4k trading options. Its a suggestion... I'm considered a prodigy child with stocks with whoever I know. one pip (.0001) for every $100,000 invested equals roughly $10. you can do the math on the profits you can make.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

You are sadly naïve. 450 per job times how many, 35 different sites? A site that's paying that much is going to take you how long to do?????? Do you even know this? No you don't. And 35 jobs in a skid is going to take you DAYS to finish. People don't want to wait for days to have their snow removed. How are you going to get the skid from one job to another? Your "get rich quick scheme" is a bust. Let it go and find something more realistic.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Okay I lied, plowsite is slow, so I get to post again. You seem to be pretty good at math. Even if as a sub you somehow get say $300/hr. That means for every "$450" job you will be there 1.5 hours. 1.5 hours per job times 35 jobs has you being our for 52.5 hours every event! Kid, I get you want to make some money, and snow removal is a way to do it, but you have to be realistic here. You're not going to make 63k a year.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Harleyjeff;2054628 said:


> You are sadly naïve. 450 per job times how many, 35 different sites? A site that's paying that much is going to take you how long to do?????? Do you even know this? No you don't. And 35 jobs in a skid is going to take you DAYS to finish. People don't want to wait for days to have their snow removed. How are you going to get the skid from one job to another? Your "get rich quick scheme" is a bust. Let it go and find something more realistic.


Friend runs one of the biggest farms around here. Has trailer weighted for 20k lbs. it should only take 20-30 mins each lot right? you just push it through and then at the end of the push go through the entire pile of snow with the blower.

If not something of this scale, then should I step it down do doing my neighborhood/ get a snow plow instead?


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Harleyjeff you beat me to it! Damn my slow phone typing! (And slow at doing math in my head )


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

757Snowman;2054630 said:


> Friend runs one of the biggest farms around here. Has trailer weighted for 20k lbs. it should only take 20-30 mins each lot right? you just push it through and then at the end of the push go through the entire pile of snow with the blower.
> 
> If not something of this scale, then should I step it down do doing my neighborhood/ get a snow plow instead?


You will never find a lot for 450 bucks that takes 20 minutes...


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

I get it. Not Realistic. Ill tone down Jordan Belfort's spirit animal inside of me. Looks like Ill go for either a plow or a walk behind blower in my neighborhood.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

JMHConstruction;2054634 said:


> You will never find a lot for 450 bucks that takes 20 minutes...


EVER. I'm done with this thread. The kid doesn't want to listen to reason. Just wants us to support his delusions. First and lastly. I'd be impressed just to see him be able to lease a skid and get insurance for it. Done with this.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

JMHConstruction;2054634 said:


> You will never find a lot for 450 bucks that takes 20 minutes...


in terms of snowplows, would it be doable on a 94 land cruiser that has a ARB bumper?


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Harleyjeff;2054640 said:


> EVER. I'm done with this thread. The kid doesn't want to listen to reason. Just wants us to support his delusions. First and lastly. I'd be impressed just to see him be able to lease a skid and get insurance for it. Done with this.


I'm listening here, scale it down, and only do neighborhood. thanks for the advice. take my investment advice I gave. You will want to shoot yourself in the foot when you cop out on making a lot of money when the EUR goes shooting back up in 6 months...


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

757Snowman;2054641 said:


> in terms of snowplows, would it be doable on a 94 land cruiser that has a ARB bumper?


No. That's not a plow truck.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Banksy;2054657 said:


> No. That's not a plow truck.


Thanks Banksy.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

A well maintained 1/2 ton with a 7.5 footer would probably be fine for your area. You don't get much more snow than us in Raleigh. I plowed for a few years here when my full time job wasn't in the way. I worked for an outfit when I was available. Unless you're big like he is, it's not worth it. I had the insurance and I think I was just breaking even. I sold my plow when the kids started coming. It just didn't make sense to keep trying. You're in Norfolk VA...not Watertown NY. I'd find something else to do...seriously. I had a driveway route in Mass. for like 12 years.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Banksy;2054664 said:


> A well maintained 1/2 ton with a 7.5 footer would probably be fine for your area. You don't get much more snow than us in Raleigh. I plowed for a few years here when my full time job wasn't in the way. I worked for an outfit when I was available. Unless you're big like he is, it's not worth it. I had the insurance and I think I was just breaking even. I sold my plow when the kids started coming. It just didn't make sense to keep trying. Your in Norfolk VA...not Watertown NY. I'd find something else to do...seriously.


I'll take your word since you're down in NC. Would you at least think snowblowing with a rental for $55 be better idea?


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

757Snowman;2054667 said:


> I'll take your word since you're down in NC. Would you at least think snowblowing with a rental for $55 be better idea?


A rental for $55? Is that a a day? I'd buy a nice blower off Craigslist from somebody in Virginia who is wondering why the hell they have a blower in Virginia. lol


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## zlssefi (Dec 29, 2011)

Anyone else think birdseeeed has resurfaced?????


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

zlssefi;2054706 said:


> Anyone else think birdseeeed has resurfaced?????


I gave up. This is either a joke or he has no idea what he's doing. Either way I'm tired of answering stupid questions, when he doesn't even try to answer them for himself.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

757Snowman;2054645 said:


> You will want to shoot yourself in the foot when you cop out on making a lot of money when the EUR goes shooting back up in 6 months...


The EUR goes shooting back up.
bwahahahaaaa.:laughing::laughing:

ok maybe it will in 40-50 years....

Its been down so long and its poised to go down even farther. I'm not speculating ether, I know folks and do business in Germany.

What happened your buddy not paying as much under the table as you think your worth...
next, when some one gets hurt and you dont have ins,
well, you can kiss all that easy stock market money good by.
:waving:

stick to school your not ready for the real world..


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Whadimiss? Did MarkO get banned again...?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

757Snowman;2054618 said:


> I'm at least going to be decent and have the landscaper cut whatever taxes out. Fine if I sound like a cheap crappy person I'll hit the 50-50 mark? This is the south, not mafia run NY. We here are decent people.


Watch the Mafia thing I come from Sicily in 1960 and live in NY. No we are not inbred hillbilly's. But good earners and decent people.

Furthermore I am the first to wish good luck to a young man. Talking about Mafia and your talking about cash money, No insurance, No LLC, INC, or DBA. Your 17 and already trying to cheat on taxes etc.

You have a hair brain idea with snow services and have way to much to learn. As far as your advice on the stock market is ridicules euro is in the bucket to as well as the us. In a failed economy cash and payed for assets is your only hope. Not the SM.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mr.Markus;2054783 said:


> Whadimiss? Did MarkO get banned again...?


LoL The cat will drag Marko in. I hope he don't give this kid the riot act.


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

I agree with everyone else in this thread. I like your ambition, but there are way to many things to go wrong for one thing to go right. If it doesn't snow, how will you pay your skid steer rent? $450 lot in 30 minutes? I don't think that's reasonable. Do you have any skid steer experience? It just seems to me like you are treating this like a 'side gig' to make some quick money. Then there is insurance too. Also, what if your friend needs to use that 20k pound trailer, then what do you do? 

If the whole town shuts down, I would go do driveways to make some money. No worrying about rental costs or a truck and trailer to haul the skid with.

Start small, and grow slowly.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Wow, really, .........


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## superdutypsd (Oct 30, 2014)

757Snowman;2054645 said:


> I'm listening here, scale it down, and only do neighborhood. thanks for the advice. take my investment advice I gave. You will want to shoot yourself in the foot when you cop out on making a lot of money when the EUR goes shooting back up in 6 months...


When the euro shoots back up :laughing: does you watch the news and see whats happeninh over in greece with there economy 
You have great ambition but heres some news for you one slip and fail on your job site you and your family will get sued, and since your a minor theyll come after your parents and take everything they own, your just like home owners you think this career/profession is EASY, AND MONEY, equipment cost a fortune, along with maintenance, insurance, overhead and running a business. You wanna make snow money go to walmart and by a shovel and shovel peoples drives, or go work for a snow removal company to learn a few things first about the industry and what it takes because you have no idea what your talking about.


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## RIRAM2500HD (May 6, 2015)

Reading this thread has been hugely entertaining ! Lol


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

http://cdn.thechivemobile.com.edgesuite.net/chive/v2/10195927/10195927_19_600_1067.jpg


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

Mr.Markus;2054911 said:


> http://cdn.thechivemobile.com.edgesuite.net/chive/v2/10195927/10195927_19_600_1067.jpg


How did you get a picture of JDDave's wallet? I thought his arm's were to short to reach it.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

cet;2054939 said:


> How did you get a picture of JDDave's wallet? I thought his arm's were to short to reach it.


3 points for cet......


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Banksy;2054670 said:


> A rental for $55? Is that a a day? I'd buy a nice blower off Craigslist from somebody in Virginia who is wondering why the hell they have a blower in Virginia. lol


Virginia... Snowblowers... Idk if those are synonymous.


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## Hysert (Dec 16, 2009)

Mr.Markus;2054911 said:


> http://cdn.thechivemobile.com.edgesuite.net/chive/v2/10195927/10195927_19_600_1067.jpg


Omg lmao...

Young man we all started somewhere, but the stuff ur saying is not cool!! 99% of us pay big $$ to do what we do. Insurance/safteys/licensING etc etc..

And if you decide to take your chances, don't count on ur buddy's on a Friday night to help you shovel walkways when there sniffing poon at that weeks party


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Ight, well thank you all for your input. I have learned a few things.

1. Don't go big right away.
2.Y'all don't listen to minors because y'all are too high and mighty to help out the little guy.
3. SnoFarmer is a ****** person as a whole and an ******* because he thinks its cool to take out his life struggles on a kid like me who is trying to find an early start in life.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

FredG;2054803 said:


> Watch the Mafia thing I come from Sicily in 1960 and live in NY. No we are not inbred hillbilly's. But good earners and decent people.
> 
> Furthermore I am the first to wish good luck to a young man. Talking about Mafia and your talking about cash money, No insurance, No LLC, INC, or DBA. Your 17 and already trying to cheat on taxes etc.
> 
> You have a hair brain idea with snow services and have way to much to learn. As far as your advice on the stock market is ridicules euro is in the bucket to as well as the us. In a failed economy cash and payed for assets is your only hope. Not the SM.


My apologies good sir.


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## Hysert (Dec 16, 2009)

757Snowman;2054980 said:


> Ight, well thank you all for your input. I have learned a few things.
> 
> 1. Don't go big right away.
> 2.Y'all don't listen to minors because y'all are too high and mighty to help out the little guy.
> 3. SnoFarmer is a ****** person as a whole and an ******* because he thinks its cool to take out his life struggles on a kid like me who is trying to find an early start in life.


Do you have any experience pushing snow? Besides your family's driveways..

An old man once told me "seat time is everything" until that time the shovel or rake was my weapon of choice...


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

757Snowman;2054980 said:


> Ight, well thank you all for your input. I have learned a few things.
> 
> 1. Don't go big right away.
> 2.Y'all don't listen to minors because y'all are too high and mighty to help out the little guy.
> 3. SnoFarmer is a ****** person as a whole and an ******* because he thinks its cool to take out his life struggles on a kid like me who is trying to find an early start in life.


You may think we're all jerks, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion I guess, but MOST of us are trying to help. We don't think we're all 'high and mighty',we just say from our own experience what would be best for your situation. I don't quite understand why you are so mad, but it's better to be frustrated now then later when you get a foot of snow and none of your buddy's show up to help.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Hysert;2054978 said:


> Omg lmao...
> 
> Young man we all started somewhere, but the stuff ur saying is not cool!! 99% of us pay big $$ to do what we do. Insurance/safteys/licensING etc etc..
> 
> And if you decide to take your chances, don't count on ur buddy's on a Friday night to help you shovel walkways when there sniffing poon at that weeks party


Sorry about me coming off as naïve. I'm honestly just trying to find ways to make money cause I lost a lot of money last year in the stock market and just trying to get a second chance at it.


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## Maleko (Sep 20, 2004)

I have no idea what's going on
So who's winning dancing with the stars ?..


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Ty27;2054990 said:


> You may think we're all jerks, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion I guess, but MOST of us are trying to help. We don't think we're all 'high and mighty',we just say from our own experience what would be best for your situation. I don't quite understand why you are so mad, but it's better to be frustrated now then later when you get a foot of snow and none of your buddy's show up to help.


I mean I thank y'all for trying to help. I'm just trying to find a place to start. Every self made billionaire started somewhere. Buffett hustled coke bottles and invested in stocks. Sam walton bought a run down store. etc. etc. I'm just trying to get to the top of the pyramid.


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

757Snowman;2054997 said:


> I mean I thank y'all for trying to help. I'm just trying to find a place to start. Every self made billionaire started somewhere. Buffett hustled coke bottles and invested in stocks. Sam walton bought a run down store. etc. etc. I'm just trying to get to the top of the pyramid.


Hey at least your TRYING to do something. Way to many kids nowadays that just sit around all day in moms basement doing nothing.

We're all trying to get to the top, aren't we?

If you take things slow and make smart decisions, you'll get there. It will just take some time.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Boy did you pick the wrong profession to find quick bucks especially where you are located....
I've always said, the easiest part of this business is the moving of the snow. The delivery,organization, equipment,staffing, maintenance, and ability to adjust to ever changing conditions and timetables is what kills most exuberant entrepreneurs. Set it up right and you'll have a shot, good luck.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Ty27;2055002 said:


> Hey at least your TRYING to do something. Way to many kids nowadays that just sit around all day in moms basement doing nothing.
> 
> We're all trying to get to the top, aren't we?
> 
> If you take things slow and make smart decisions, you'll get there. It will just take some time.


Thanks man. At least someone here is being civil instead of turning this into Comedy Central's Plowsite special Roast


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Okay, quit trying to get rich quick. Stocks, snow, whatever are not going to make you rich if you don't understand how it works, and this is a business that YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW IT WORKS! There are plenty of minors who shovel snow. We are telling you what we tell everyone, do your friends and family. You don't understand the risks and investments people in this business take. This isn't something you can just wake up and make a million dollars.

The name calling and being immature isn't how you get help on here. Also you gotta help yourself first. Do some research. Find out why we pay insurance and have legal contracts (at 18 you can't do either). You need to realize that hard work equals money, not just from watching some movie and saying "I can make money off wall street."


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

JMHConstruction;2055013 said:


> Okay, quit trying to get rich quick. Stocks, snow, whatever are not going to make you rich if you don't understand how it works, and this is a business that YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW IT WORKS! There are plenty of minors who shovel snow. We are telling you what we tell everyone, do your friends and family. You don't understand the risks and investments people in this business take. This isn't something you can just wake up and make a million dollars.
> 
> The name calling and being immature isn't how you get help on here. Also you gotta help yourself first. Do some research. Find out why we pay insurance and have legal contracts (at 18 you can't do either). You need to realize that hard work equals money, not just from watching some movie and saying "I can make money off wall street."


Ok sorry I'm acting how you think I am acting. the wall street thing, Ive been doing it since the 8th grade. I know about research and all of that. Somethings I thought I could try to waive off this year (insurance) because of the cost and its first year doing this. I'm learning through what y'all tell me. I am now more educated and realize you can't get buy a machine and expect it to spit out your entire college fund in a winter. It takes time.


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

757Snowman;2055010 said:


> Thanks man. At least someone here is being civil instead of turning this into Comedy Central's Plowsite special Roast


No problem, I can see where the anger is coming from from some other members throughout this thread. I agree with them though. Your numbers aren't realistic and never will everything pan out exactly how you want it in this business.


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## superdutypsd (Oct 30, 2014)

You wanted advice to get started and you were given advice that you didnt want to hear, start with a shovel, because untill then your a sitting duck, and even when you turn 18 you will still havr trouble in this bussiness geting insurance and equpiment. You only get 3-4 events a year so i do not see how you think you can make a killing foing this. If money is your main priority which it sounds like maybe stick to what you know stock markets, which most who have exsperiance in stock know you need to buy say 10k worth of one stock to make huge capital gains in dividends and interest, so i dnt know how much you could be making from it. You can not just simply slap a plow on a vechile and go out and plow you get in an accident you will not be covered, you think this is a get rich industry which it is not, most are make just enough to support there familys and business, and thrn what happens when you have employees who the. Are relying on you for a job and them to bring home money to put food on the plate for there family. If your so good with stock stick to that, you've obviously shown your errigance and immaturity


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

757Snowman;2055018 said:


> Ok sorry I'm acting how you think I am acting. the wall street thing, Ive been doing it since the 8th grade. I know about research and all of that. Somethings I thought I could try to waive off this year (insurance) because of the cost and its first year doing this. I'm learning through what y'all tell me. I am now more educated and realize you can't get buy a machine and expect it to spit out your entire college fund in a winter. It takes time.


You've caught me in a pretty good mood tonight, so I'll keep this educational, and not a put down like the rest of my comments.

The reason we tell all minors to "stay small" is because you cannot legally be held responsible to any contract you sign. Thus making it impossible for you to get insurance, equipment loans (without co-signer), or get real contracts. With insurance if anyone were to slip and hurt themselves, or even act like it, you will get sued. They will come after the property owner, the contractor, and the subcontractor. With you being the sub and under 18 they will come after your parents, because you have nothing to give them. By only doing friends and family that risk goes way down, because you're not a company, you're some kid just making a little money.

I am extremely small compared to pretty much everyone one this site. I run a crew of 4 guys and myself. We only do sidewalks as a sub for larger companies. Sidewalk guys are hard to come by, so we're always in demand (except this year, which is a different story on another thread). I have some walk behind blowers and spreaders, and I have a bunch of shovels. I make chump change to the guys who have 100s of thousands invested in their fleet, but if you consider my overhead, investment, and payouts I come out alright.

Before you start any business, you need to have a plan. You have to work out EVERYTHING in your head that could go wrong and right. You also need to learn how to operate a business. After you think you have that, learn the business you're getting into. You will never be 100% prepared for hiw this plays out. Say you invest as little as say $1000 in a blower and a good shovel (look into the snow plow shovel) this year. Will you still be alright if it doesn't snow?

Snow removal is a business to us. It is how we pay our bills in the winter months. When guys come on here who have no clue and start acting like they know everything (how you came/come across) we get a little defensive. Do a bunch of reading on this site. Use the search and look up your questions. You're not the first young guy to come through here. A bunch of guys started around your age, but you have to know what you're doing. This isn't shoveling your parents drive. This is out in the cold all night when you haven't slept all day. It's stressful, and you need to know what you're getting into. I would start as an employee shoveling sidewalks this year for a company. After you get your feet wet start a crew. Grow from there, just don't get over your head. Good luck kid, my thumbs are tired, so I'm ending my lesson for the day.


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## superdutypsd (Oct 30, 2014)

JMHConstruction;2055072 said:


> You've caught me in a pretty good mood tonight, so I'll keep this educational, and not a put down like the rest of my comments.
> 
> The reason we tell all minors to "stay small" is because you cannot legally be held responsible to any contract you sign. Thus making it impossible for you to get insurance, equipment loans (without co-signer), or get real contracts. With insurance if anyone were to slip and hurt themselves, or even act like it, you will get sued. They will come after the property owner, the contractor, and the subcontractor. With you being the sub and under 18 they will come after your parents, because you have nothing to give them. By only doing friends and family that risk goes way down, because you're not a company, you're some kid just making a little money.
> 
> ...


100% agreed and how i feel, no ifs ands or buts, and this is pretty much what he will be limited to do and can do


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

"The best way to get rich quick, is to get rich slow." Zig Zigler

Wow, I've been in this business for 20 years, and I still have a lot too learn.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

757Snowman;2054982 said:


> My apologies good sir.


No need to apologize kid, Just remember you will not get rich in your part of the states with snow or the stock market. With the state of economy stocks are out.

Stay in school worry about the start of your career a little later when your a little older when you can obtain what you need to hopefully be successful in business.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

FredG;2055105 said:


> No need to apologize kid, Just remember you will not get rich in your part of the states with snow or the stock market. With the state of economy stocks are out.
> 
> Stay in school worry about the start of your career a little later when your a little older when you can obtain what you need to hopefully be successful in business.


Thank you for your words of wisdom.

In terms of stocks. The oracle of omaha (Warren Buffett) once said, Be greedy when others are fearful, and fearful when others are greedy. So I'm being fearful right now so when opportunity comes and everyone gets shot with the market going down due to fed rate hike,(hint, its going to hit soon and really hard) I can strike. And as someone else here said, Best way to make money is slowly.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

JMHConstruction;2055072 said:


> You've caught me in a pretty good mood tonight, so I'll keep this educational, and not a put down like the rest of my comments.
> 
> The reason we tell all minors to "stay small" is because you cannot legally be held responsible to any contract you sign. Thus making it impossible for you to get insurance, equipment loans (without co-signer), or get real contracts. With insurance if anyone were to slip and hurt themselves, or even act like it, you will get sued. They will come after the property owner, the contractor, and the subcontractor. With you being the sub and under 18 they will come after your parents, because you have nothing to give them. By only doing friends and family that risk goes way down, because you're not a company, you're some kid just making a little money.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

757Snowman;2054972 said:


> Virginia... Snowblowers... Idk if those are synonymous.


Nope but you said you were looking for one. You can't get commercial accounts on your own because of your age. You can't really sign a contract and no business will anyway. Your parents would have to set up the company and you would be an employee. Even then your commercial vehicle insurance would likely have to be OK with you as an operator....just a guess.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Banksy;2055127 said:


> Nope but you said you were looking for one. You can't get commercial accounts on your own because of your age. You can't really sign a contract and no business will anyway.


Looks like its gonna be my christmas money, piggy bank, and whatever random cash I can scramble going in this.

Economics lesson. 
Opportunity cost must be less than opportunity benefit.Looks like I got a lot of benefit to reap.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

"The Sage of Omaha"
Investors who bought Berkshire Hathaway Inc.'s euro-denominated bonds in March are learning that the biggest beneficiary of the Sage of Omaha's investing acumen is Warren Buffett.

Berkshire's three deals maturing between eight and 20 years and totaling 3 billion euros ($3.3 billion) are all among the* 40 worst-performing bonds* issued in the single currency this year, data compiled by Bloomberg show. That gives the Omaha, Nebraska-based company Buffett chairs the largest number and greatest amount of underperformers in the ranking.
:waving::salute:


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## superdutypsd (Oct 30, 2014)

757Snowman;2055129 said:


> Looks like its gonna be my christmas money, piggy bank, and whatever random cash I can scramble going in this.
> 
> Economics lesson.
> Opportunity cost must be less than opportunity benefit.Looks like I got a lot of benefit to reap.


For how little events you get and the cost of insurance and equipment, you would most likely be in the hole for the season


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Join the Navy, then invest all of your money in the euro,


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## superdutypsd (Oct 30, 2014)

SnoFarmer;2055149 said:


> Join the Navy, then invest all of your money in the euro,


Wise guys know it alls dont make it in the navy, lol


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

Find a landscape outfit and see if you can drive for them. I called a landscape compamy here in NC during a storm once and they stuck me in a Case skid steer for the day at a couple schools.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

Banksy;2055161 said:


> Find a landscape outfit and see if you can drive for them. I called a landscape compamy here in NC during a storm once and they stuck me in a Case skid steer for the day at a couple schools.


Alright that sounds like a nice plan actually. I'll consider it. Thanks Banksy.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

superdutypsd;2055148 said:


> For how little events you get and the cost of insurance and equipment, you would most likely be in the hole for the season


I'm stepping down from original plan. going to do residential and pull the I'm a high school kid trying to raise money for X. or work for a company to get some experience under my belt.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

SnoFarmer;2055142 said:


> "The Sage of Omaha"
> Investors who bought Berkshire Hathaway Inc.'s euro-denominated bonds in March are learning that the biggest beneficiary of the Sage of Omaha's investing acumen is Warren Buffett.
> 
> Berkshire's three deals maturing between eight and 20 years and totaling 3 billion euros ($3.3 billion) are all among the* 40 worst-performing bonds* issued in the single currency this year, data compiled by Bloomberg show. That gives the Omaha, Nebraska-based company Buffett chairs the largest number and greatest amount of underperformers in the ranking.
> :waving::salute:


The euro fell harder this year.Thats a given. You mentioned euro denominated bonds. You have mistaken what I'm trying to suggest. Euro denominated Bonds are just the worlds worst idea. The fact those chumps were sitting in those is actually hilarious. I'm saying go straight for EUR/USD Forex Trading. From a technical chart standpoint (something from here you probably will get lost in what I'm talking about) the euro has hit a double bottom in the 1.07- 1.085 range. Thats a sign for a massive pop. So if you still think I'm a pretentious naïve kid trying to offer BS advice, Go Ahead. I've done my research. Watch when the US market goes to the pooper and the euro goes skyrocketing. You either a.) decided to take my advice and profited from it or b.) sat like a duck and watched the missed opportunity of what could have been 1/3 of the value of your entire fleet (depending on how much you would have decided to invest and how big it is) go slipping through your fingers like dust in the wind. I'm at least trying to trade advice for advice since you saved me from making a costly mistake that would have made me go bankrupt at 19. It's your choice


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

They may do away with the eur as more country's are going to default.
Refugees are costly, more unrest in the region. Cost of energy goes up as Russia goes for control of the oil......

I think you have a teacher with a theory,
The thing about a theory is.....
Well you know the saying.


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## 757Snowman (Nov 12, 2015)

SnoFarmer;2055204 said:


> They may do away with the eur as more country's are going to default.
> Refugees are costly, more unrest in the region. Cost of energy goes up as Russia goes for control of the oil......
> 
> I think you have a teacher with a theory,
> ...


Your theory that Euro will go away won't actually happen. your key word "may." There's too much going on right now for it to all of a sudden dissolve. As long as Germany has all of Europe's debt papers, it will forever stay the Euro. Refugee situation, that is true, they are costly. I don't even know why they were let through in the first place. Forgive me if this is not acceptable to say in light of Friday's unfortunate happening but, If refugees weren't let through in the first place, Friday could have been prevented. Russia going for oil control, haha. Like that will have a big enough effect on everyone. Supply and demand. If Russia wants to jack up prices, so be it. That just means a long term shift to America being the provider of oil due to fracking and the giant deposit still sitting up in Alaska.ussmileyflag Also thats just plain stupid of Russia to do, depend their economy on one commodity. Look at Venezuela, their economy is FUBAR because they relied on Oil for income.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

757Snowman;2054991 said:


> Sorry about me coming off as naïve. I'm honestly just trying to find ways to make money cause I lost a lot of money last year in the stock market and just trying to get a second chance at it.


I was watching this with amusement, and am somewhat late to chime in, but 757Snowman you need to have some humility (I know it can be hard at 17).

This is a snow forum, and is a good place to learn about snow. Investment advice doesn't really belong here, even if you hadn't lost a bunch in the stock market. Never confuse smarts with wisdom, or think that smarts will bring you success. When I was getting my Doctorate at Caltech in Aeronautics, there was an investment club of professors with many Nobel prizewinners in it, some of whom I knew personally. They lost money most years.

My wife, whose Ph.D. is in Theoretical Physics, is far smarter than I am (as she reminds me constantly), but can't use a shovel and I wouldn't trust her within 20 feet of my snowblower that I use at home.

What do my degrees, SAT scores, Engineering licences, etc. mean when it comes to move snow? Not a damned thing.

Do they mean I am smarter than someone who didn't go to college? Nope. It just means that I had a combination of skills, work, and opportunity that allowed me to take advantage of opportunity. In grad school I worked as an aircraft mechanic apprentice and then as a licensed mechanic to get a little extra beyond my stipend. There were some very smart people that I worked with who just didn't have the resources to go to college.

Assuming that you are, what does your being a prodigy mean? Not a damned thing.

The world has many prodigies who failed in the real world, and don't have a family or a real life. Be ambitious, be proud of who you are and what you have accomplished, but always have humility as well.

The most I learned about moving snow was when I was in high school (30 years ago) north of Boston and used to do a bunch of neighbors' houses in addition to my parents. Most money I made moving snow was the blizzard of '78, because I had a snowblower. I never took or saw any course in snow removal in a course catalog.

I don't move snow professionally, but do move a bunch at an airport where I have built some hangars, and read the forum(s) to obtain useful information. If I have something to contribute because I know engineering, I contribute. But I don't assume that I know more about moving snow than someone who has done it professionally for years.

Don't get your hackles up when someone has a rude/flippant comment. Laugh, then read between the lines to see what true nuggets of information there are to be had. Learn from their experience and mistakes so you don't make some on your own.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Aerospace Eng;2056092 said:


> I was watching this with amusement, and am somewhat late to chime in, but 757Snowman you need to have some humility (I know it can be hard at 17).
> 
> This is a snow forum, and is a good place to learn about snow. Investment advice doesn't really belong here, even if you hadn't lost a bunch in the stock market. Never confuse smarts with wisdom, or think that smarts will bring you success. When I was getting my Doctorate at Caltech in Aeronautics, there was an investment club of professors with many Nobel prizewinners in it, some of whom I knew personally. They lost money most years.
> 
> ...


I would say that was well written and enjoyed the thread. We all need it between the eyes now and then. Thumbs Up


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

757Snowman;2055211 said:


> Russia going for oil control, haha. Like that will have a big enough effect on everyone. Supply and demand. If Russia wants to jack up prices, so be it. That just means a long term shift to America being the provider of oil due to fracking and the giant deposit still sitting up in Alaska.ussmileyflag Also thats just plain stupid of Russia to do, depend their economy on one commodity. Look at Venezuela, their economy is FUBAR because they relied on Oil for income.


Why do you think at this time Russia gives a crap about the middle east? hint, they want the oil so does china.
Russia and china have a deal with Iran for resources 
they want to grab as much land and oil as they can while guarding Iran. I know the mainstream news that you fallow didn't tell you this but it's true.

Europe gets its nat-gas and oil from Russia.
we have bees sending 30% of our refined diesel to Europe because of the sanctions. thus the reason why diesel prices are what they are.

and the mainstream media also didn't tell you that yea the euro is in danger of being a defunct currency. ( I have friends in Germany)

you need to stop watching fox or msnbc...

ps the oil they thought was in the ocean of the coast of Alaska was a boondoggle, no oil was found
next by law we cant sell Alaskan oil to the world.. it suppose to be used domestically.
yes we know some is being sent over seas because of sanctions...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

I learned more on accident from these threads. There may be a more efficient way that you may not know about. You can't learn this by reading a book.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SnoFarmer;2056139 said:


> Why do you think at this time Russia gives a crap about the middle east? hint, they want the oil so does china.
> Russia and china have a deal with Iran for resources
> they want to grab as much land and oil as they can while guarding Iran. I know the mainstream news that you fallow didn't tell you this but it's true.
> 
> ...


Amen..He probably just hears this manure he's throwing from around where he hangs out and with. Ya ok at 17 I was not reading a paper or watching the news or even had a clue. I was all of 21 before I ever wanted to earn good money and work at a annuity and pension.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Nah, the world was supposed to end in 2012...I'm just living on borrowed time :laughing:

seriously though, we get it...you're 17 and going to make millions in the stock market. Back to snow removal.


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## NickSnow&Mow (Jul 12, 2014)

Alright man here's the deal. First off forget just about everything you've read on this and screw the negativity. I'm 15 and have about 40 customers and just bought a new compact tractor. I started off when I was 11 literally doing 2 driveways. The next year put a snow blower on the front of a $2000 lawn tractor and did like 6 driveways. Last year I rented my dads compact tractor with snow blower and puller and did about 30 driveways. I just bought a brand new John Deere 3036r and inverted snowblower. I'm liscensed/insured all of it. Not trying to make this thread about me but I'm just giving you an example of what can be done. It's totally unrealistic to expect to have never plowed a day in your life and just run down to the dealer, sign some papers, and bam! You're making money. I disagree with guys that are saying "you're too young you don't know what you're doing" but they do have a point that this isn't a joke once you start running real equipment. YOU WONT MAKE A PENNY THIS WINTER! Let's figure $1500 rent on the cat for 6 months and a $5000 blower. That's equipment alone not even considering fuel or insurance. With the amount of snow you get you'd be lucky to gross 10k setting aside the fact that you're having 25% taken off the top. You're not only not going to not make any money but if you really think a bobcat is what you need you should have atleast 10k in the bank. If I were you I'd go buy a fancy Honda 2 stage snow blower and tow it behind your parents car or whatever. I've learned sun contracting isn't quite as simple as you think it will be. From my experience you get the crappy driveways on busy roads that take a long time to do, have lots of shovelling, don't even pay all that well. I'll be doing a couple driveways for another guy in town here but only because they're already on my route, and I charge him what I would normally charge the customer. I'm getting a but off topic but anyways, forget the idea of having your buddies shovelling for ya. I used to think like that too "oh I'll just have this crew of my friends shovelling and I'll be the big boss man driving around" this isn't when you were 8 and went to shovel grandmas driveway down the street for $5 and some hot chocolate. You have heavy equipment to be operating and don't have time to be screwing around. I'll admit my brother and dad help me with some shovelling but they drive around in the truck and have all the best equipment possible (snow plow shovels, Honda single stage blower, Stihl br600 leaf blower). I'm not saying you shouldn't have any help shovelling but 1-2 guys is more than enough. Last thing is, your parents have to be totally cool with it. If you don't have someone who can operate equipment better than you can and knows how just about everything works you're going to get in a tight spot one day and have no idea what to do or who to call. Like when your tractor won't start at the gas station pump and you have 10 missed calls from customers wondering were you are. Or that time you've been working from 3am-10pm for 4 days strait it's nice to have someone who's not only willing but enjoys doing it for you. Long story short do your research, get legit, never underestimate the cost of doing business, and never listen to anyone on plowsite telling you you're too young to move snow. You should talk to Triple L if you get the chance.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Nick, I'm glad you're doing well for yourself. Here is the problem with comparing you to the OP. #1 you get a little more snow up north than he does. #2 at 15, there is no way you would have your legal company in the states (not sure the different laws, but no way does a 15 y/o have a legit business without daddy to sign everything).

Remember he only gets 3 snow events! And you lost ya damn mind if you think you can rent a 30k skid for 6 months for $1500. With that little amount of snow I don't see a point in buying or really even renting any kind of big equipment. Unless you use a tractor or skid for full time work in summer there is no point.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

One more question OP, why a blower? How much snow accumulates in one storm? I wouldn't spend the money on a blower, get a pusher or something...

Something about this damn thread just keeps pulling me in! I wish it would release me!


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## NickSnow&Mow (Jul 12, 2014)

JMHConstruction;2056574 said:


> Nick, I'm glad you're doing well for yourself. Here is the problem with comparing you to the OP. #1 you get a little more snow up north than he does. #2 at 15, there is no way you would have your legal company in the states (not sure the different laws, but no way does a 15 y/o have a legit business without daddy to sign everything).
> 
> Remember he only gets 3 snow events! And you lost ya damn mind if you think you can rent a 30k skid for 6 months for $1500. With that little amount of snow I don't see a point in buying or really even renting any kind of big equipment. Unless you use a tractor or skid for full time work in summer there is no point.


Sorry I meant to say $1500 a month. Truth is my parents do sign and co sign stuff for me....no way would I have been able to partly finance a tractor with no credit rating. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm about legit as I possibly can be at this age and I'm not doing anything illegal I just might not have my signature on everything. Very good point, we get loads of snow here. With three storms a year you might want to rethink snow removal as your business. Last year we had 5 good sized storms in a week. You can almost count on working atleast once a week from December-February here.


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## skorum03 (Mar 8, 2013)

This thread is entertaining. 

3 or 4 snow "storms" a year, unless you do skid work in the other 10 months of the year that it doesn't snow where you are, I wouldn't bother with snow plowing. Stick to the stock market there, Warren


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## superdutypsd (Oct 30, 2014)

If your 15 you do not have legal controll over the bussiness, and if you are licensed and insured the most certainly its thru your parents, the negativity he received was because of the additude he came on here with and his unrealistic ideas and thoughts on snow removal is get rich easy money", and his know it all additude. If your are a minor, and want to do snow removal, get a shovel out and two buddys and get your butt out side and shovel driveways for 20 dollars a pop then go down to the pizza shop and hang out like we did as kids, and just because your a teenager and do a couple driveways DOES NOT mean you guys are snow professionals, cleaning a driveways with a snowblower, shovel, atv, or tractor is the very basics foot in the door to this industry, anyone can push snow, but to learn the propers of it take time and exsperiance, ice control is an engineering science, not just go throw some salt down and everythings fine and dandy. A skid loader for 1500 a month good luck with that, let alone to recommend it to someone as a rental option, who one only had 3-4 events a year and two has no experience in one, this is were age, In exsperiance, and lack of knowledge come into play, do you know operators need training in skid loaders, mini excavators, any kind of equipment like that and that some states require them to hold a license and certified. If you read the whole post you will see how and why the OP got the answers he did, you guys come here asking questions for help, but then when given advice you guys already know it all and dont want to listen or hear it, then proceed to tell someone who has been in the industry for longer than you teenagers have been alive that there wrong. Lol some of you have a long roaded head of you, if this industry was so easy, and everyone could really do it you wouldnt have fly-by night plow guys, and people geting out of snow removal, you guys are still just kids, you wanna make money yes go shovel driveways, have fun doing it and learn somethings along the way, but dont ask for advice be a smartazz and act like your better and know more that an old timer, in my profession they do not care what kind of degrees you have or book knowledge you have, hands on exsperiance is valued more and that is with almost every secessful bussiness in the usa


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## superdutypsd (Oct 30, 2014)

Maybe they should have a folder for the teens were they can all converse and give each other advice, and what not since they know this bussiness and are pros, they can tell each other how to run a successful business, equipment needed, tax advice, employees osha training, how to get loans and equipment, it would be very entertaining, but then again this new generation isnt like the old, you have parents afraid to smack there kids, kids going to schools shooting up because they cant take being teased or geting there balls busted, do not know manners, how to dress properly, even tie a tie, cant get good grades in school, do not know how to read a tape measure, ect


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Nick, it is nice that you are doing well, and you show the type of growth that is reasonable for someone where you get snow at least once a week during the winter.

I actually thought this thread was more civil than many, and that the tone (at least until he started offering investment advice and geopolitical observations) was not incredibly shrill.


Of the posts that mentioned age, many were not "You can't do it because you are 17 and too young," but rather "You can't have a commercial business until you are at least 18 due to inability to enter into legally binding contracts."

Most posts concentrated on the general unworkability of the business model.

You ultimately concluded on your 2nd post that it was probably not a good idea with the differences between Canada and Virginia Beach, but let's put some more perspective to it....

Virginia Beach has average highs in Dec, Jan, and Feb, of 53, 49, and 53, respectively, and average lows of 37, 34, and 35. Not much snow there. In fact, the OP indicated it only snowed in Jan and Feb.

Thinking that you can take a bunch of high school friends (since you are all out of school whenever there is 2-3" of snow) and clear $47K in one two month season is ridiculous, as the replies were pointing out. Note that his business would exist for 1 or 2 seasons at most, since then he would be off to college and unavailable during the winters.

His answer to questions about salting were that he has a friend with a truck that he was going to hitch a spreader to (Salt spreading trailers are generally a bad idea due to weight shift). His answer to moving the skidsteer was that he had a friend who ran (not owned) a farm that had a trailer that could move it (in a town shut down because they have no equipment to clear the streets, but presumably with the permission of the farm owner who is exposing himself to liability for negligent entrustment). 

So you have two friends (being paid an unknown amount) that are driving trucks and towing trailers in minimally plowed streets to help you out. That's a recipe for disaster. Even if they have a lot of experience driving trailers AND driving in snow (unlikely in Virginia Beach), if they haven't grown up towing trailers in snow they are likely to end up in a wreck, whereupon the responding officer will ask to see the CDLs that they carry.

His answer to insurance in one post was that he thought he would be covered by the friend he was subbing for, and then in another that he was trying to save costs by not having it the first year. You probably most need insurance (have the highest risk) when you are starting out since that is when you are learning and are more likely to make a mistake and try to squeeze to close to a car in the driveway or damage your equipment because you don't understand its limitations, etc.

As a way of making money, this idea has been bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated by the factual information and pointed questions in the replies. The replies weren't negative because he is 17, the replies were negative because it was an ill-considered idea. 

It appeared that it would have ended there as an interesting thread, except the OP had to give gratuitous investment advice as "payment" for the advice on plowing, and starting to throw gratuitous insults about "Mafia" NY when the person to whom he was responding was in MN. He also seems to equate people telling him his dumb idea was a dumb idea with prejudice against a minor. But the more he replied, the more he put himself from the category of someone ambitious with a bad idea to an arrogant teenager.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

time to wrap this one up and move on

thanks :waving:


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