# Help figuring out how to bid



## Nritland (Dec 17, 2013)

Hey all, I have an 2001 2500hd with a stainless xv2 fisher plow that I bought to move my snow on my own property and my family's property. Been thinking about taking on some paying jobs. Was curious how you would bid the property below.
It's all gravel, no snow will be hauled off site. It would be roughly 60,000sq ft.
Live in central Iowa





  








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Nritland


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Sep 1, 2018


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Nritland said:


> Hey all, I have an 2001 2500hd with a stainless xv2 fisher plow that I bought to move my snow on my own property and my family's property. Been thinking about taking on some paying jobs. Was curious how you would bid the property below.
> It's all gravel, no snow will be hauled off site. It would be roughly 60,000sq ft.
> Live in central Iowa
> 
> ...


I'd bid on how the client requested it, whether it's per season or per event. It'll all break down to an hourly rate.


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## Nritland (Dec 17, 2013)

would $100 dollars per time be ball park?


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Nritland said:


> would $100 dollars per time be ball park?


Where i live that would be 200 easy but we dont live in the same place so my input is worth nothing


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Nritland said:


> would $100 dollars per time be ball park?


 You would have better luck pulling teeth from a grizzly then getting a straight answer in here. The best advice I can give is to figure out what your hourly rate in your area is. Then figure a truck with an 8ft plow should be able to do 43,560 1 Acre. Take the lot obstacles cars anything that you can think of that's going to add time to the job and calculate that in.

I'm in Illinois if I was to bid that job on SQFT alone not taking anything else into consideration I would bid it 180 2-4" 234 4-6" 305 6-8" that's strictly plowing.

I hope this helps you some I must say I am new to the game this year and these numbers are all from reading and looking at other peoples bids in my area my mom is the president of few banks in my area so she has let me go over all the bids she has received for the last 10 years. But still, take my numbers with a grain of salt.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

It's pulling teeth because IT CAN'T BE DONE. We cannot just tell you a price, it can't work like that. We do not know your costs or your market area.

You need to figure out all your costs, which is more than fuel, insurance, and maintenance. Unfortunately we just can't figure that out for you.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

JMHConstruction said:


> It's pulling teeth because IT CAN'T BE DONE. We cannot just tell you a price, it can't work like that. We do not know your costs or your market area.
> 
> You need to figure out all your costs, which is more than fuel, insurance, and maintenance. Unfortunately we just can't figure that out for you.


Best everThumbs Up


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Nritland said:


> Hey all, I have an 2001 2500hd with a stainless xv2 fisher plow that I bought to move my snow on my own property and my family's property. Been thinking about taking on some paying jobs. Was curious how you would bid the property below.
> It's all gravel, no snow will be hauled off site. It would be roughly 60,000sq ft.
> Live in central Iowa
> 
> ...


For where I'm at, Jersey. The lot is gravel, I hate plowing gravel lots. I would be $225.00 every time I hit it. Have you checked on commercial insurance for your area. Prob much cheaper than here. See, operating costs vary significantly per region. What does the average guy get in your area, then adjust to what you want to make per job. Do not work for nothing.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

JMHConstruction said:


> It's pulling teeth because IT CAN'T BE DONE. We cannot just tell you a price, it can't work like that. We do not know your costs or your market area.
> 
> You need to figure out all your costs, which is more than fuel, insurance, and maintenance. Unfortunately we just can't figure that out for you.


While I can agree with you on their numbers. sometimes just giving examples will help a person out. Now if they take what you say for the end all be all price then that's on them.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JT&SONS said:


> You would have better luck pulling teeth from a grizzly then getting a straight answer in here.














JT&SONS said:


> The best advice I can give is to figure out what your hourly rate in your area is.


I'm sorry... that is your best advise? So what you are telling me is that if everyone in your area is charging $80 an hour for a plow truck and due to your operations overhead costs, you need to clear a $100 an hour to break even, that you should plow snow for a loss of $20 an hour...







have fun with your hobby... 

Give a man a fish... teach a man to fish...


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> I'm sorry... that is your best advise? So what you are telling me is that if everyone in your area is charging $80 an hour for a plow truck and due to your operations overhead costs, you need to clear a $100 an hour to break even, that you should plow snow for a loss of $20 an hour...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Give a man a fish teach a man to fish. Come on bro find something else to say. Be a leader not a follower.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

JT&SONS said:


> Give a man a fish teach a man to fish. Come on bro find something else to say. Be a leader not a follower.





Philbilly2 said:


> I'm sorry... that is your best advise? So what you are telling me is that if everyone in your area is charging $80 an hour for a plow truck and due to your operations overhead costs, you need to clear a $100 an hour to break even, that you should plow snow for a loss of $20 an hour...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


let's not ruin the thread by making it personal...keep it on topic or place each other on ignore


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JT&SONS said:


> Give a man a fish teach a man to fish. Come on bro find something else to say. Be a leader not a follower.


Please explain?

I don't understand how my post was not relevant to the topic?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Nritland said:


> Hey all, I have an 2001 2500hd with a stainless xv2 fisher plow that I bought to move my snow on my own property and my family's property. Been thinking about taking on some paying jobs. Was curious how you would bid the property below.
> It's all gravel, no snow will be hauled off site. It would be roughly 60,000sq ft.
> Live in central Iowa
> 
> ...


Depending on your level of experience, the industry average is 1 acre\hour with an 8' plow on a pickup.

I think that's very slow for someone with experience, maybe not bad for someone with no or minimal experience. But you\they will get faster. Also the fact that it's gravel is going to slow you down due to no frost in the ground or frost coming out of the ground during thaws.

As others have said, pricing is too regional to give a price that is helpful to you. Nothing to do with grizzly bears. Hourly rate 1 hour west of me is half or less what mine is. In Jersey it can be $200\hour, in NW PA it can be $40\hour. Same truck, same plow, same operator. It's all about the cost of living and what the market will bear as well as competitors.

Can we help with time estimates? Yes. Can we determine pricing for you? No, unless we're in the same region.

I can assure you that the reason hourly rates are higher for plowing than mowing is because the work is completely different and operating costs are higher for plowing operations than mowing, etc.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JT&SONS said:


> While I can agree with you on their numbers. sometimes just giving examples will help a person out. Now if they take what you say for the end all be all price then that's on them.


What does it help to give someone in an entirely different market your pricing for their lot? That's like Caterpillar using Hitachi's pricing...


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

John_DeereGreen said:


> What does it help to give someone in an entirely different market your pricing for their lot? That's like Caterpillar using Hitachi's pricing...


It's an example for them to get an idea. They should take their numbers and apply them. No one is asking you to give them the exact bid. They just want some ideas of what others are charging in their area. You guys tend to make all so literal. When in reality the price for a truck with a plow is relatively the same. If your cost to operate is 150 hr and the going rate in your area is 125hr you better find a way to be more efficient or you will not win bids. For example, in my area, most guys charge 125-150 for a truck with plow. This has been the same basic rate for all companies in my area for the last 10 years. Where the prices vary drastically is in salt and application rate. There are way more variables with salt then a truck and plow.

The OP isn't trying to make this lively hood he is trying to make a little extra cash on the side. So his overhead will be considerably less than the next guys.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JT&SONS said:


> For example, in my area, most guys charge 125-150 for a truck with plow. This has been the same basic rate for all companies in my area for the last 10 years.














JT&SONS said:


> You guys tend to make all so literal.


When you have skin in the game it needs to be taken very literally.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

JT&SONS said:


> It's an example for them to get an idea. They should take their numbers and apply them. No one is asking you to give them the exact bid. They just want some ideas of what others are charging in their area. You guys tend to make all so literal. When in reality the price for a truck with a plow is relatively the same. If your cost to operate is 150 hr and the going rate in your area is 125hr you better find a way to be more efficient or you will not win bids. For example, in my area, most guys charge 125-150 for a truck with plow. This has been the same basic rate for all companies in my area for the last 10 years. Where the prices vary drastically is in salt and application rate. There are way more variables with salt then a truck and plow.
> 
> The OP isn't trying to make this lively hood he is trying to make a little extra cash on the side. So his overhead will be considerably less than the next guys.


Actually his cost would be more if he's doing it commercially and pays for commercial snowplow and liability ins. The entire cost for the ins would only go to that one job, (unless he gets more jobs then it would get spread out but thats not the case here). You keep thinking of this as a hobby, side job or doing it under the table so to speak but when you start getting a check for it its totally different.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

JT&SONS said:


> The OP isn't trying to make this lively hood he is trying to make a little extra cash on the side. So his overhead will be considerably less than the next guys.


So he should charge less because of this?


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> When you have skin in the game it needs to be taken very literally.


Go read the original post he states he plows his property and families property. He has "stake in the game" regardless. He is considering taking on some paying jobs. Not trying to make a living with a plow and truck. To be honest I'm surprised you guys aren't criticizing him for what he wants to do. I'm sure work will be performed no taxes and possibly no insurance. you better ask the OP how he files his taxes every year what he deductions he takes. If he pays work comp if he prefers charmin or quilted to wipe with.

To the OP try and find some bid info for your area. If you know the property manager of that site ask to see the previous years bids. The worst they can say is no. The good thing for you is you can handle trial and error in your situation it's not going to affect you or your family if you win the bid don't win the bid leave money on the table keep good record of times and cost this year when your plowing it will help you fine tune your costs. Go read through the thread I started asking a similar question and you will get a good idea of how things work around these parts.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JT&SONS said:


> When in reality the price for a truck with a plow is relatively the same.


This is what we are all trying to explain to you but you are refusing for some reason. The truck is not the only cost in plowing snow. You don't understand this yet as you are new to being self employed, we all get that.

Once you get to the point that you have overhead, employees, insurance, a shop/ office, office staff, computers, copiers, equipment payments, truck payments, income tax, payroll tax, heat, electric, maintenance costs, repair costs, etc.

There are so many more factors that are involved with running a business that you are looking past. That is why everyone's number will be completely different.

Here is an example for you to help you understand this...

The work that I do, we cannot plow snow in most cases. I used to do it to keep my guys busy in the winter. The bottom line was that plowing snow was actually costing me money to do. Once I figured out what we needed to clear per hour to break even, we found that the market cannot sustain that dollar figure per hour. The dollar figure in my area is between $85 and $105 an hour per truck with a blade depending on how close you get toward the suburbs/city... So if look at other peoples bids that don't have the same operation and or overhead and just match their number, I will loose money plowing snow. That is the simple fact that EVERYONE is attempting to explain to you.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JT&SONS said:


> He has "stake in the game" regardless.


No he does not...


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

dieselss said:


> This is what we are all trying to explain to you but you are refusing for some reason. The truck is not the only cost in plowing snow. You don't understand this yet as you are new to being self employed, we all get that.
> 
> Once you get to the point that you have overhead, employees, insurance, a shop/ office, office staff, computers, copiers, equipment payments, truck payments, income tax, payroll tax, heat, electric, maintenance costs, repair costs, etc.
> 
> ...


Wrong I do understand this. While I might not have some of those expenses I do have a lot of those. And plowing will not make me rich heck I might break even or do a little better but that's not whybim offering plowing. I'm offering plowing to please the customer who in turn will then have me do spring clean up fall clean up prune the 100 shrubs they have. Apply feet and weed control. You see. Plowing for me is just a way to get the other jobs which do pay me good money. Plowing is like mowing you don't make money the first year the 2nd year you make money in mowing over time. And by upwelling other services.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JT&SONS said:


> Wrong I do understand this. While I might not have some of those expenses I do have a lot of those. And plowing will not make me rich heck I might break even or do a little better but that's not whybim offering plowing. I'm offering plowing to please the customer who in turn will then have me do spring clean up fall clean up prune the 100 shrubs they have. Apply feet and weed control. You see. Plowing for me is just a way to get the other jobs which do pay me good money. Plowing is like mowing you don't make money the first year the 2nd year you make money in mowing over time. And by upwelling other services.


Understood. If that is your business plan, see to it as you will.

But don't start off your post with trying to get an honest answer out of this group is like pulling teeth on a grizzly bear.

Some of the people that you have developed such hatred for have been down the road and now are pretty successful business people that are only trying to lead people down the path to their own finical success.

Knowing the number that your own operation makes/ looses at is the first step to making money.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

again, no need to make it personal or continue with the back and forth...please offer advice and assistance to the OP or move on


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JT&SONS said:


> Yep and that's exactly why I'm surprised you guys don't want to help people more. The more educated one is the less likely they will be to low ball & drive the industries pricing down.


We do want to help people. When people will not accept/listen to advice from people who have been there before, well...most of us have more important things to do than try to help people that won't accept the help we are trying to provide.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

JT....Some of these guys may come off harsh to you....But,the advice Oomkes and Philbilly have givin is sound....Reread the posts and filter out your distain for them...They have givin good information


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Defcon 5 said:


> JT....Some of these guys may come off harsh to you....But,the advice Oomkes and Philbilly and Bossplow have givin is sound....Reread the posts and filter out your distain for them...They have givin good information


This right here is some good info


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

again, JT is not the OP so he, those who he is directing comments at, and those directing comments at him can stop...the OP is the one that needs assistance here


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> again, JT is not the OP so he, those who he is directing comments at, and those directing comments at him can stop...the OP is the one that needs assistance here


Agreed....There are plenty on here that need "assistance"


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

and JT, DO NOT make any threats, such as what I removed, again here


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Sounds like the 14 hour day in the field made me miss the party

To get things back on track... OP, first look into insurance, as suggested. I don't believe it's very high in Iowa, but I could be mistaken. I've never plowed a gravel lot, but I would assume you would end up with a pile of gravel where you stack snow, at least until things freeze. You may have to add "fixing" that to your bid.

Findlotsize.com can help you figure out the size. From there you can estimate time. You'll have to see how the customer wants it bid, but it seems like per push. Like Mark said, figure 1 hour per acre. You'll probably be a little quicker. From there you'll have to add in your costs.

Not sure what your schedule is in the winter, but even though you're only taking a few jobs, it's still a 24/7 job. You need the time to keep them clean, and protect yourself.

You may look into subbing, just to figure out how to plow larger lots without having to worry about the phone calls, headaches, and worries of having your own jobs. That way you can learn one part of the business at a time. In a couple years you'll have a much easier time bidding jobs, because you'll know your direct costs to plow and how long different lots will take. Just a thought.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JMO, I don't spoon feed any of my clients, I'm not going to add lawn maintenance and make no profit to lead to possible excavation work. Snow and Ice is tough work, equipment, non existing labor and financially,

All new guys come here expecting to have all there bidding issues solved but want to forget all the other things that have to be in place before you can consider a bid. Otherwise anybody's advice is worthless and a waste of time.

This is a very good place to learn what you are looking for. You can't expect your answers your looking for without a bunch of questions coming your way. The members here base there opinions on real life experience.

Yes when your learning you have to look past the banter and take the advice with it. If any of you can do that you will get the answer your looking for at least the basics, If you can't figure out your bottom line your expediences going out you probably need a accountant not plowsite.

Once you figure all that out you only need a profit your comfortable with. NEVER NEVER NEVER Take a job for no profit hoping to lead to more work. There is other ways to handle that but it's a whole different post.

The above threads are solid advice it's up to the viewers to take it or leave it.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> Sounds like the 14 hour day in the field made me miss the party


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