# OLDER BOSS V-SNOWPLOW



## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

Just replaced a hose on our snowplow. Now, the left wing extends whenever the plow is raised or the right wing is extended. I checked Boss.com and the troubleshooting said to check pressure return line routing; well I didn't do anything with the pressure return lines (they've been in the correct position for 20 years) and Boss Technical Support is closed until tomorrow morning. Anyone, know what would cause the left wing to extend out on its own?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Sounds like this valve is stuck


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Did your wife hit something to cause it to blow a hose?

Something could be causing that valve the stick open like a piece of the hose


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

Hey, thanks! So, what do I do to unstick it? 

The Boss just told me she has had this problem before but it was a joystick problem. The last time she just sprayed some electrical lube into the joystick and it fixed the problem. I'll try that first and if that doesn't work I'll try to unstick the valve.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> Did your wife hit something to cause it to blow a hose?
> 
> Something could be causing that valve the stick open like a piece of the hose


No, the hose just busted. It worked for over 15 years; guess things just wear out.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

When you changed the hose did you take the opportunity to change the fluid or just top it up.?


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

So you replace only 1 line?

You plan on having 5 more breakdowns? ( there are 6 lines rite so you wait for each line to brake before you replace them?) I cant afford that many breakdowns, Id loose customers for being unreliable.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

theplowmeister said:


> So you replace only 1 line?
> 
> You plan on having 5 more breakdowns? ( there are 6 lines rite so you wait for each line to brake before you replace them?) I cant afford that many breakdowns, Id loose customers for being unreliable.


I carry hoses in the truck and fluid, use em right till the end. Heck I've broken new hoses. It's a ten minute job in the back of a parking lot.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> I carry hoses in the truck and fluid, use em right till the end. Heck I've broken new hoses. It's a ten minute job in the back of a parking lot.


15 in the front lot?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

My wife corrected me and says 2 min if I take my time...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Gunny Gerdau said:


> Hey, thanks! So, what do I do to unstick it?
> 
> The Boss just told me she has had this problem before but it was a joystick problem. The last time she just sprayed some electrical lube into the joystick and it fixed the problem. I'll try that first and if that doesn't work I'll try to unstick the valve.


Then you'll need to test the coil on the valve and see if it's getting powered when it shouldn't due to a defective joystick


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

theplowmeister said:


> So you replace only 1 line?
> 
> You plan on having 5 more breakdowns? ( there are 6 lines rite so you wait for each line to brake before you replace them?) I cant afford that many breakdowns, I loose customers for being unreliable.


You're absolutely right. However, I checked the other lines, per the Boss' orders and they were all in great condition. The Boss doesn't doesn't plow commercially anymore just our little 8 acres. So, everything's good.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

cwren2472 said:


> Then you'll need to test the coil on the valve and see if it's getting powered when it shouldn't due to a defective joystick


Thanks, will do.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

Mr.Markus said:


> When you changed the hose did you take the opportunity to change the fluid or just top it up.?


Funny thing; my wife is out plowing, then she comes in and says, "Honey, will you come out see what I've broken!" I come out and she starts the truck and immediately I see a small geyser coming out of the hose down by the left wing. So, when I looked in the reservoir there was virtually no fluid and by the puddle in the snow I think she lost all fluid, and I did put a substantial amount of fluid back in when I fixed the hose.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

Update, I checked the valve and there was a lot of debris on the screen. Cleaned the screen and blew the valve real good; also changed the O rings while I had it off. Then removed the pressure relief valve and stuck a small piece of wire up in there from the extend left wing valve to see if there was anymore debris. Oh, then I went a head and put new O rings on the pressure relief valve. I tried the plow again but have the same problem. I'm thinking the extend left wing coil is getting energized when it shouldn't. So, right after lunch I'm heading out again to see if I can remedy the situation.

When I raise the plow the left wing extends out first and then the plow raises.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Gunny Gerdau said:


> Update, I checked the valve and there was a lot of debris on the screen. Cleaned the screen and blew the valve real good; also changed the O rings while I had it off. Then removed the pressure relief valve and stuck a small piece of wire up in there from the extend left wing valve to see if there was anymore debris. Oh, then I went a head and put new O rings on the pressure relief valve. I tried the plow again but have the same problem. I'm thinking the extend left wing coil is getting energized when it shouldn't. So, right after lunch I'm heading out again to see if I can remedy the situation.
> 
> When I raise the plow the left wing extends out first and then the plow raises.


Pull one of the wires off that coil temporarily and try another function.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

cwren2472 said:


> Pull one of the wires off that coil temporarily and try another function.


I pulled off the blue wire to the left wing extend coil. Then I pushed the rocker switch up to lift the plow. Both wings extended and then the plow went up. With the plow up I pushed the rocker switch to bring the wings back in - that worked. Then I pushed the rocker switch to extend the left wing and it extended; not sure why that would work with the wire disconnected from the coil.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Is this a notsorapidtach2?


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Is this a notsorapidtach2?


RT II V-Blade


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Gunny Gerdau said:


> RT II V-Blade


Trying to remember what the deal was...those had something screwy with the valves. We tapped into the valve body for our back plows back in the day. Raise the back plow and a wing would extend. This was before interweb days, so we didn't know it was a thing and the dealer and distributor told us we were the only ones in the world having these problems.

Not sure if there was a fix or if we replaced the trucks at the end of their life cycle. We're talking 20 years ago.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Trying to remember what the deal was...those had something screwy with the valves. We tapped into the valve body for our back plows back in the day. Raise the back plow and a wing would extend. This was before interweb days, so we didn't know it was a thing and the dealer and distributor told us we were the only ones in the world having these problems.
> 
> Not sure if there was a fix or if we replaced the trucks at the end of their life cycle. We're talking 20 years ago.


Back when you had a shoe phone?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> Back when you had a shoe phone?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Gunny Gerdau said:


> I pulled off the blue wire to the left wing extend coil. Then I pushed the rocker switch up to lift the plow. Both wings extended and then the plow went up. With the plow up I pushed the rocker switch to bring the wings back in - that worked. Then I pushed the rocker switch to extend the left wing and it extended; not sure why that would work with the wire disconnected from the coil.


I'm a bit of a loss. The fact that the wing is still going out with the coil disconnected implies that the valve indicated earlier is stuck wide open even after your attempting to clean it. It will probably need to be replaced.

But the other wing going out also implies you have an issue with the other wing extend valve as well (sv5 in the diagram) at least intermittently. So I'm not sure what to recommend at this point except possibly replacing the SV1 and trying to clean the SV5.

If, as it sounds, you have multiple valves failing, then you would almost certainly have to have a major contamination issue which won't be fixed by just replacing the valves themselves.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> This was before interweb days, so we didn't know it was a thing


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm a bit of a loss. The fact that the wing is still going out with the coil disconnected implies that the valve indicated earlier is stuck wide open even after your attempting to clean it. It will probably need to be replaced.
> 
> But the other wing going out also implies you have an issue with the other wing extend valve as well (sv5 in the diagram) at least intermittently. So I'm not sure what to recommend at this point except possibly replacing the SV1 and trying to clean the SV5.
> 
> If, as it sounds, you have multiple valves failing, then you would almost certainly have to have a major contamination issue which won't be fixed by just replacing the valves themselves.


Unless it's bad valves from day 1 as I mentioned.

I guess I should clarify, this would happen when raising the front plow as well occasionally. Basically the valves were not closing completely.

It was either faulty valves or the entire manifold. I really don't remember.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> Back when you had a shoe phone?


Let's keep it helpful...this is elementary grade stuff.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Unless it's bad valves from day 1 as I mentioned.
> 
> I guess I should clarify, this would happen when raising the front plow as well occasionally. Basically the valves were not closing completely.
> 
> It was either faulty valves or the entire manifold. I really don't remember.


Could be, but the OP implied he's had this plow all along and the problem is consistent, not intermittent. I assume if it's been doing this for 20 years, he wouldn't just now be trying to diagnose it. And for 2 different valves to be affected simultaneously 20 years later, it seems unlikely.

That said, it could be something with the manifold, I'm not sure.

Speaking of your post, I didn't follow it at all. You said that you tapped into the V plow manifold to operate your back plow, and then you had 1 function causing both plows to operate. Except that seems like exactly what would happen if you were trying to use the 1 manifold to operate both plows. Unless I totally misunderstood what you were getting at.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> Unless I totally misunderstood what you were getting at.


That's a universal thing with Mark.

Hahaha.....


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

I'm a little late here, but I still have an RT2. I kept it as a backup. 
Could it be a short in the plug for the controller inside? I seem to recall having this issue once upon a time.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

EWSplow said:


> I'm a little late here, but I still have an RT2. I kept it as a backup.
> Could it be a short in the plug for the controller inside? I seem to recall having this issue once upon a time.


That's why I had him disconnect the wiring from the coil, to rule out the possibility of it being activated when it shouldn't be


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

EWSplow, cwren2472, and Mr. Markus - My plan today is to attack the control box after I pull the coil and valve. I'm going make a jumper wire and verify that the coil and valve are in fact working correctly. Then I'm going to open the control box and keep everything connect to their rocker switch, except for the left wing. Then check to see if what works and doesn't, so it'll be a process of elimination.

cwren2472, yesterday, I pulled all of the valves and cleaned them, I found a lot of crap on the left wing extend valve. Replaced all of the O rings, put dialectic grease on the all of valve shafts and on the electrical connections. Put everything back together and topped off the fluid. Started the truck and checked for leaks. Checked function and had the same problem; push the up and the left wing extended then the plow went up. Next I disconnected the blue wire to the left wing extend coil, checked function; pushed up and the left and right wings extended then the plow went up. Seems to me that something is activating the left and sometimes the right wing coils or the valves are always in the open position.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Gunny Gerdau said:


> Seems to me that something is activating the left and sometimes the right wing coils or the valves are always in the open position.


Correct. Right now my suspicion is that there is crap still blocking the left wing extend valve and holding it open at all times. But based on what you said, the right wing valve is also stuck, at least at some times, presumably from the same crap.


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

@ OP you mentioned that this is an older plow, but you did not specify if this is a RT II or RT 3
The reason I mention this is the image @cwren2472 posted showing valve locations is not the same as the one I found on Bosses website for RT II.
(I could be wrong though...)
The blue wire from what I can tell on the RT II is still left out, so you are probably troubleshooting the correct valve in spite of this...

A couple of other things I did not see mentioned in this thread, is the problems Boss had with the older plows because of the ground jumper that is attached to each coil (#31G in the image below), and the fact that all of the directional spool valves are the same, so you can swap your right extend valve for your left extend valve to see if the problem switches sides to aid in your diagnosis.


Spoiler


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mebes said:


> @ OP you mentioned that this is an older plow, but you did not specify if this is a RT II or RT 3
> The reason I mention this is the image @cwren2472 posted showing valve locations is not the same as the one I found on Bosses website for RT II.
> (I could be wrong though...)


You are correct. Everything I said diagnostically still applies, but the diagram I posted is for RT3, so the layout is totally different and yours has the correct layout for his application.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

When holding cwren2472's diagram up and comparing to mine, I noticed my valve assembly was a little different - LOL. But I had also downloaded the owner's manual from Boss and figured I was diagnosing the correct valve. Ok, all my errands are ran now to dig into the plow truck. I'll let ya'll know what I find.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Speaking of your post, I didn't follow it at all. You said that you tapped into the V plow manifold to operate your back plow, and then you had 1 function causing both plows to operate. Except that seems like exactly what would happen if you were trying to use the 1 manifold to operate both plows. Unless I totally misunderstood what you were getting at.


The powers that be told us it was due to tapping into the manifold and adding a separate valve for the back plow.

Later on I learned that the powers that be were full of poop. This was a problem they had with plows that did not have an additional valve added.

But since it was before the days of the interweb, when they told us we were the only ones in the universe having this problem, I believed them.


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

Gunny Gerdau said:


> Just replaced a hose on our snowplow. Now, the left wing extends whenever the plow is raised or the right wing is extended.


SV5 shifted when it was not supposed to shift (stuck or control)



Gunny Gerdau said:


> I pulled off the blue wire to the left wing extend coil. Then I pushed the rocker switch up to lift the plow. Both wings extended and then the plow went up.


SV5 shifted when it was not supposed to shift (stuck or control)
SV1 shifted when it was not supposed to shift (control)



Gunny Gerdau said:


> With the plow up I pushed the rocker switch to bring the wings back in - that worked. Then I pushed the rocker switch to extend the left wing and it extended; not sure why that would work with the wire disconnected from the coil.


SV5 already shifted (stuck) Control activated pump

___
Yea this is a bit of a head-scratcher, as it seems to be a mix of control and valve issues with a bit of contamination on the side. (yuck)

According to the hydraulic schematic, if you run the pump with no valves activated it should simply dead head against SV1, SV3, and SV5 and the plow should not move.

I guess the way I would go at this would be to mark then unplug the trigger (+) wires off of all the coils on your valve body then go to the control and press up to run the pump.
If the plow moves in any direction it would indicate a stuck valve that needs to be fixed before proceeding.

If the plow does not move, plug the control wires back in and temp up some new ground wires from each of the coils back to the big ground stud for the pump motor to see if the control issues are on the ground side.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

Quick updIate. I took out all of the valves, all of the relief valves, all of the check valves, and the screen cartridge. Then I used brake cleaner on everything. I took the check valves apart and there was some crud in them. Also, took the relief valves apart (as much as I could) and they had some light crud in them. Also, took the screen cartridge apart, it has some large crud in it. Then I took the valves and the coils and checked them to make sure they were opening and closing by using a jumper wire to the activation side and then another wire to a ground, while they were open I sprayed some more brake cleaner in. All electrical connections received some dialectic grease and a little squeeze on the connectors. After topping off the reservoir I started the truck up and had a mix of actions. Pushing on the up rocker switch first the left wing would extend and then the right wing would extend and finally the plow would lift. I did this several times then I checked the vehicle battery and the plow battery; the plow battery was low so thru the charger on it. After running the truck for awhile and getting a good charge on the plow battery I tried it again. The first time when pushing the up rocker switch the plow went up and neither wing opened. Then opened the wings with the their rocker switches worked great. Retracted the wings and put the plow down then tried it again. The next time pushing the up switch the right wing opened up and then the plow went up half-way and then the left wing opened up. After trying several times finally, 6 out of 10 times the plow operates the right way but initially it acts screwy. Definitely, a head scratcher.

The Wife own the truck and the plow when she and her last ex split up. He, nor the 1st ex ever paid child support so she support herself and raised 4 kids using the plow (the kids are now 38, 35, 32, & 27) so she has had this plow and truck for a long time, way over 20 years. She is now retired from doing commercial plowing, which is the way I met her (she was my snowplower). So we are both retired. We've been married for over 10 years now (guess she need a wrench to work on her truck - LOL) but I was a grunt in the Marine Corps so beating on things was always a comfort. You guess have been VERY helpful and I will try to participate in giving limited advice on this forum.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I still feel this is an electrical control problem, all the valves are activating from one action. They have to be getting current to do this. You either have a current leak, or a bad ground somewhere, start at the battery as you said with it fully charged it worked.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

This brings back memories from my RT2 years ago. I spent countless hours trying to figure it out with the help of a boss tech. wish I could remember what I did. I'm pretty sure it was a ground issue as @Mr.Markus stated. I know through the years I changed the 13 pin plugs, the power cables and the plug for the controller. 
BTW, I noticed you're still using the box with rocker switches. I have also replaced at least one of the rocker switches at some point. Frankly, I got so used to it, that it took me a while to switch to a hand held. 
Another hillbilly fix for a loose connection at the power cables is a hose clamp. It holds the plugs together. 
Have you tried switching wires on the valves and using the switch for the wires you switched?


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

Mr.Markus said:


> I still feel this is an electrical control problem, all the valves are activating from one action. They have to be getting current to do this. You either have a current leak, or a bad ground somewhere, start at the battery as you said with it fully charged it worked.


I agree, I'm ordering new rocker switches, because something is energizing the coils. Tomorrow I'll check the ground.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

EWSplow said:


> This brings back memories from my RT2 years ago. I spent countless hours trying to figure it out with the help of a boss tech. wish I could remember what I did. I'm pretty sure it was a ground issue as @Mr.Markus stated. I know through the years I changed the 13 pin plugs, the power cables and the plug for the controller.
> BTW, I noticed you're still using the box with rocker switches. I have also replaced at least one of the rocker switches at some point. Frankly, I got so used to it, that it took me a while to switch to a hand held.
> Another hillbilly fix for a loose connection at the power cables is a hose clamp. It holds the plugs together.
> Have you tried switching wires on the valves and using the switch for the wires you switched?


My wife is so use to those rocker switches. I asked her if she wanted to change out the switches and she said no.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Wth is a "plow battery"?

I would disconnect the 11 pin plug entirely. Jump the coil for raise to the positive post on the motor and hit the control (any function except lower). The plow should raise. If it does anything else at all, it's a hydraulic issue. If you can replicate this test 4 or 5 times consistently and it passes, its electrical.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Is this happening every single time you push a switch?

Ours were random, more so when the oil was cold.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Is this happening every single time you push a switch?
> 
> Ours were random, more so when the oil was cold.


I think that's the case with mine. It seems that when the oil warmed up it reacted the way it should.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Gunny Gerdau said:


> I think that's the case with mine. It seems that when the oil warmed up it reacted the way it should.


Seems like that was our issue as well, or at least it wasn't nearly as bad.

Something is wrong with the valves, not the wiring.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

cwren2472 said:


> Wth is a "plow battery"?
> 
> I would disconnect the 11 pin plug entirely. Jump the coil for raise to the positive post on the motor and hit the control (any function except lower). The plow should raise. If it does anything else at all, it's a hydraulic issue. If you can replicate this test 4 or 5 times consistently and it passes, its electrical.


A "Plow Battery," is the auxiliary battery we have in our 1985 Chevy, so it operates the plow.

I'm going to do your suggestion and check to make sure what problem I have; I'm leaning toward electrical - something is definitely energizing the coil.

Luckily, spring has sprung in Central Oregon. But, we have had snow in July.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Gunny Gerdau said:


> A "Plow Battery," is the auxiliary battery we have in our 1985 Chevy, so it operates the plow.


Is that a fancy way of saying you have dual batteries in the truck? Or do you somehow actually have the plow running on its ow. Independent battery?



Gunny Gerdau said:


> I'm going to do your suggestion and check to make sure what problem I have; I'm leaning toward electrical - something is definitely energizing the coil.


I'm going to lay my betting money down on hydraulic


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

cwren2472 said:


> Is that a fancy way of saying you have dual batteries in the truck? Or do you somehow actually have the plow running on its ow. Independent battery?
> 
> I don't know if its a fancy way to say we have dual batteries but it does only operate the plow, however, it is charged with alternator, the battery is a series circuit.
> 
> I'm going to lay my betting money down on hydraulic


Ok, all bets are off - LOL.

I pulled the wires off all of the coils. Jumper from battery and then to plow up coil - nothing. Pressed up on joy stick - both wings go out and then plow goes up. Jumper still on battery to left wing out coil - nothing. Pressed Left out - both wings go out. Jumper still on battery to right in - wing came in. Move jumper to right out - nothing. Press right out - both wings go out. Move jumper to Left in - wing comes in. Move jumper to right in - wing comes in. Moved jumper to Left out - nothing. Pressed Left out - both wings go out. Move jumper to left in - wing comes in. Move jumper to right in - wing comes in. Move jumper to plow down - plow goes down.

Reconnected all wires for plow. Pushed up plow - both wings go out and then plow goes up. Pushed Left wing in - wing comes in. Pushed right wing in - wing comes in. Pushed Left wing out - both wings go out. Pushed left wing in - left wing comes in. Pushed right wing in - right wing comes in. Pushed right wing out - both wings go out.

Disconnected pump solenoid white/black wire. Pressed up - nothing. Pressed down - nothing. pressed right wing out - nothing. pressed left wing out - nothing. Verified no 12V to anything on solenoid or coils. Had 12 1/2 V coming from Auxiliary Battery to hot side of solenoid. Black wire with 32A fuse had 12V. Jumper to solenoid +. Jumper with 12V to up plow coil - nothing. To Left out coil - nothing. To Right out - nothing. Pushed toggle (joy stick) switches - nothing. Put everything back - nothing. Tightened all connections - everything worked fine.

Somewhere, something is not making a good connection. Now, that Spring is here, this may be a project I tackle this Fall before snow flies.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

That was very good, very thorough. But largely unnecessary.



Gunny Gerdau said:


> I pulled the wires off all of the coils. Jumper from battery and then to plow up coil - nothing. Pressed up on joy stick - both wings go out and then plow goes up.


This told you right there, your problem is not electrical. No coil can be activating and yet fluid is pushing to all three cylinders. This means that the valves for left out, right out, and lift are all sticking now.

For s--ts and giggles, get the plow to raise and leave the wings out. It seems odd that the valves for wing retract and down are not sticking as well, so I want to know if it creeps down and back.

EDIT: I just reread and noticed that you left the jumper on for the above test. That means that the lift valve may not be sticking after all. That behavior would have been expected if the two wing out valves were stuck.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Lol...no one listens to the guy that had this issue in the past.

Its not crap in the valves because it gies away as the manifold and valves warm up.

What the heck do I know? I don't allow cats in my sink...or dress up my dogs...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What the heck do I know?


Hell if I know


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Its not crap in the valves because it gies away as the manifold and valves warm up.


Your suggestion was that your 20 year old v plow / back plow hydraulic incest problem was somehow related to his. You failed to suggest anything specific by way of diagnosis or possible solution.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

cwren2472 said:


> That was very good, very thorough. But largely unnecessary.
> 
> This told you right there, your problem is not electrical. No coil can be activating and yet fluid is pushing to all three cylinders. This means that the valves for left out, right out, and lift are all sticking now.
> 
> ...


I'll do that and get back to you.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Your suggestion was that your 20 year old v plow / back plow hydraulic incest problem was somehow related to his. You failed to suggest anything specific by way of diagnosis or possible solution.


No, I said Boss blamed it on the back plow. I then found out they were full of crap, that it was happening to a lot of people but because it was before the interweb, I wasn't aware of it.

And no, I didn't provide a fix because I don't recall if we lived with it until we sold the trucks or if Boss fixed them.

But it doesn't matter, because the issue is the valves.

But again, what do I know? I just started plowing this morning after I fell off the turnip truck. You didn't even clarify if it was an RT2 or RT3 before you started diagnosing the problem, 2 entirely different systems.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No, I said Boss blamed it on the back plow. I then found out they were full of crap, that it was happening to a lot of people but because it was before the interweb, I wasn't aware of it.
> 
> And no, I didn't provide a fix because I don't recall if we lived with it until we sold the trucks or if Boss fixed them.
> 
> ...


Good point. @Gunny Gerdau, mark said it's just something Boss plows do, so you should just live with it or buy a new plow

Should you NOT want to do that, I'll remind you of @Mebes point that virtually all of those valves are interchangeable so swapping them is an easy way to check for bad valves. Should you swap them and it continues to do the same thing, that will mean there is an issue with the manifold itself and that, God help us, @Mark Oomkes was right along


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Good point. @Gunny Gerdau, mark said it's just something Boss plows do, so you should just live with it or buy a new plow


Yes, that's EGGZAKLY what I said.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Lol...no one listens to the guy that had this issue in the past.
> 
> Its not crap in the valves because it gies away as the manifold and valves warm up.
> 
> What the heck do I know? I don't allow cats in my sink...or dress up my dogs...


We just don't want you to be right, it swells your head....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> We just don't want you to be right, it swells your head....


SKWBE...


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Its not crap in the valves because it gies away as the manifold and valves warm up.


My bet is that there is some swelling going on inside of the spool valve that gives way when it warms up.

Come on now and tell us the truth...
Did you fall off or were you pushed?

Bonus question: Did you land on your head?


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

cwren2472 said:


> Good point. @Gunny Gerdau, mark said it's just something Boss plows do, so you should just live with it or buy a new plow
> 
> Should you NOT want to do that, I'll remind you of @Mebes point that virtually all of those valves are interchangeable so swapping them is an easy way to check for bad valves. Should you swap them and it continues to do the same thing, that will mean there is an issue with the manifold itself and that, God help us, @Mark Oomkes was right along


ROFLMAO - Well, I'm not going to buy a new plow. When I cleaned the valves I did take them in and clean them and put them back in the port they came out of.

The left wing has always (well since I've been on the scene) creeped, but I suspect the cylinder needs replaced. The right wing stays out and doesn't creep and the plow doesn't go down once lifted. I priced the cylinders, but since the boss doesn't mind the creep I'm not going to fix it.

I think I'll switch the left extend valve with the left retract valve and see what I get and the same on the right side.

I've priced the hydraulic valve assembly, they really like those critters.

What Mebes said, makes a lot of sense. Not, the part about being pushed - LOL.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Creeping is never related to bad cylinders. It is always a valve issue

I shouldn't say never - if you see fluid shooting out from the cylinder like Old Faithful, then it's bad.


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

Like stated above, swap in/out and up/down valves (one at a time) and see if the problem follows.

Retract creep can be a bulged valve stem or a relief valve issue. Again swap control or relief valves to pinpoint the problem... You can buy the valve stems individually but the price still stings a bit.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

cwren2472 said:


> Creeping is never related to bad cylinders. It is always a valve issue
> 
> I shouldn't say never - if you see fluid shooting out from the cylinder like Old Faithful, then it's bad.


Ok, I swapped the Left Wing Out Valve with the Left Wing In Valve; now works perfect.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

Woodenshoe said:


> Like stated above, swap in/out and up/down valves (one at a time) and see if the problem follows.
> 
> Retract creep can be a bulged valve stem or a relief valve issue. Again swap control or relief valves to pinpoint the problem... You can buy the valve stems individually but the price still stings a bit.


When I swapped out the Out Valve with the In Valve I have no creep.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Gunny Gerdau said:


> Ok, I swapped the Left Wing Out Valve with the Left Wing In Valve; now works perfect.


Try cycling it a bunch of times - I'd be surprised if it _didn't _start creeping back (and folding back instantly.) Just swapping that valve shouldn't have fixed anything by itself. Though @Mark Oomkes probably disagrees.


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

cwren2472 said:


> Try cycling it a bunch of times - I'd be surprised if it _didn't _start creeping back (and folding back instantly.) Just swapping that valve shouldn't have fixed anything by itself. Though @Mark Oomkes probably disagrees.


I did lift, extend, retract, down about 12 times, didn't start creeping. The Boss is going out to try it out - I'm positive she'll let me know if I didn't fix it. But I do plan this year to buy several valves just to have on hand; figure they'll keep.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Gunny Gerdau said:


> I did lift, extend, retract, down about 12 times, didn't start creeping. The Boss is going out to try it out - I'm positive she'll let me know if I didn't fix it. But I do plan this year to buy several valves just to have on hand; figure they'll keep.


I'm not sure, but I thought that they were the same valves as the RT3, at least the early ones?


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

Gunny Gerdau said:


> I did lift, extend, retract, down about 12 times, didn't start creeping.


When the bad valve was in the wing out position it was fighting against ~2000 PSI from the pump and it did not hold.
When you moved the valve to the retract position it only needs to hold back whatever PSI the spring can create 500PSI maybe?

I be willing to bet pushing a full blade of wet snow will make them creep.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Try cycling it a bunch of times - I'd be surprised if it _didn't _start creeping back (and folding back instantly.) Just swapping that valve shouldn't have fixed anything by itself. Though @Mark Oomkes probably disagrees.


Laugh all you want, but I said from the start it's a valve issue.

But hey...what do I know, I only had 3 of these plows with the issue.

If it was an electrical thing, then it would be EXTREMELY unlikely that so many would have been assembled wrong. But if it was a run of faulty valves...but I'll bow to the superior wisdom of a counter jockey.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Laugh all you want, but I said from the start it's a valve issue.
> 
> But hey...what do I know, I only had 3 of these plows with the issue.
> 
> If it was an electrical thing, then it would be EXTREMELY unlikely that so many would have been assembled wrong. But if it was a run of faulty valves...but I'll bow to the superior wisdom of a counter jockey.


Actually, you said it was a valve _*MANIFOLD*_ issue or valves: you "couldn't remember". *I *said it was a valve issue back in post #2.

And I said it was a valve issue related to contamination. While it's possible you had defective valves on your plow(s) while it and the valves were new 20 years ago, few people (expect you) would argue that multiple valves that worked fine for 20 years and suddenly started experiencing issues simultaneously were "defective" from a "run of faulty valves"

But what does a schmuck counter jockey like me know? I only sell and work with the stuff 55 hours a week. You actually _plow snow. _


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Actually, you said it was a valve _*MANIFOLD*_ issue or valves: you "couldn't remember".


I still can't remember, but I did state it wasn't electrical.



cwren2472 said:


> few people (expect you) would argue that multiple valves that worked fine for 20 years and suddenly started experiencing issues simultaneously were "defective" from a "run of faulty valves"


Except the OP stated he doesn't know if this has been an ongoing issue because he hasn't been dealing with it for 20 years.



cwren2472 said:


> But what does a schmuck counter jockey like me know?


Good question.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I still can't remember, but I did state it wasn't electrical.


The only person who suspected it was electrical was the OP, since he commented that he thought it was related to the joystick since his wife had messed around with it previously. I told him the tests needed to rule that out.



Mark Oomkes said:


> Except the OP stated he doesn't know if this has been an ongoing issue because he hasn't been dealing with it for 20 years.


He stated that nothing on the plow has "changed in 20 years." That implies he's had the plow the whole time and the plow has not been doing that the whole time.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I still can't remember


Next time, take notes. It's tough getting old.

BTW, I was behind this car the other day. Have you traveled to the Northeast?


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## Gunny Gerdau (Mar 14, 2019)

OK, over the summer I saved enough money to replace all of the valves. No, creeping anymore. However, first thing in the morning if I lift the plow, the right wing swings out and then the ram lifts the plow. So, I have to cycle the wings and lift rams several times and then it works the way its suppose to. Only thing I can think of is there is air in the system. I don't have any leaks so I don't think the system is sucking air. Everything I've read says the rams will bleed themselves.


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