# plow problems



## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

Got a western pro plow, ultra mount 8' straight blade. I think I have a stuck valve or coils working intermittently. When I would push the up button, the plow would sometimes go left. Now it don't want to go up sometimes. Fluid is good, not milky, and not low got good power to everything. I'm going to do tests on the coils today, and change fluid just because and also check & clean valve cartridges too. I'm leaning towards the coils or valves because it goes fine right & left and when its working like it should. it goes up fine to. I don't think its the pump, because it works fine left & right, and only does this sometimes. It might go half a day with no problems and then start acting up. Any thoughts???


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

I would try to find another control to try.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

kimber750;1700220 said:


> I would try to find another control to try.


That or your computer thing on the plow is crapping out on you.


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

Kimber, Snowguy, I have power to motor and all power everywhere checks out as far as volts go. Its something in the valve bank I think I just haven't pin pointed it yet. Its like there is ice sticking the valves or just dirty or something...but got volts (12) every where , but have to check coils to before I drain and see if I can recreate the problem while I'm testing them just to eliminate the coils, then I guess I'm going to inspect the valve cartridges. Thanks for your suggestions guys!


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

You've cked for pwr and gnd at the coils while your operating the plow? 
Have you done the coil magnetized test on a bench or a screwdriver?


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

SnowGuy73;1700238 said:


> That or your computer thing on the plow is crapping out on you.


Really unlikely he has a plow module. D&D just recently started using fleet flex/multi plex systems on straight blades.



upplowin;1700262 said:


> Kimber, Snowguy, I have power to motor and all power everywhere checks out as far as volts go. Its something in the valve bank I think I just haven't pin pointed it yet. Its like there is ice sticking the valves or just dirty or something...but got volts (12) every where , but have to check coils to before I drain and see if I can recreate the problem while I'm testing them just to eliminate the coils, then I guess I'm going to inspect the valve cartridges. Thanks for your suggestions guys!


Unless you check power at the coils every time it did not work it can still be the control.



dieselss;1700265 said:


> You've cked for pwr and gnd at the coils while your operating the plow?
> Have you done the coil magnetized test on a bench or a screwdriver?


This


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

Haven't checked pwr at coils yet...waiting on a friend to come and help. Coils should magnetize when energized too right? Then when I get the coils and cartridges off I can test for pwr or energize and inspect cartridges too right? Check for wear and all that, correct?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Do you have a joystick or handheld?
Yes, yes, yes


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

dieselss;1700398 said:


> Do you have a joystick or handheld?
> Yes, yes, yes


Its a handheld cab command


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

upplowin;1700262 said:


> Kimber, Snowguy, I have power to motor and all power everywhere checks out as far as volts go. Its something in the valve bank I think I just haven't pin pointed it yet. Its like there is ice sticking the valves or just dirty or something...but got volts (12) every where , but have to check coils to before I drain and see if I can recreate the problem while I'm testing them just to eliminate the coils, then I guess I'm going to inspect the valve cartridges. Thanks for your suggestions guys!


How did u go about chainging the fluid last time? I would drop the res & flush the whole system completely. And refill it with red atf instead of the blue fluid.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

No. No atf. Nick explained why no atf in newer western plows very good in another thread


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

No atf, been there, jells/thicker when cold, I use the western blue fluid and I'm going to change it today to & will look & clean everything good. My multimeter isn't working so I'm tracking one down as we speak. I'll let you all know what I find...thanks!


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Test light only!


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

upplowin;1700449 said:


> No atf, been there, jells/thicker when cold, I use the western blue fluid and I'm going to change it today to & will look & clean everything good. My multimeter isn't working so I'm tracking one down as we speak. I'll let you all know what I find...thanks!


I'm still betting that its a fluid related problem and not electical or even mechanical. Just do the fluid flush then worry about checking the coils later if the problem still exists. that did the trick for me when mine was acting up intermittently.


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

OK, so far I've checked pwr to the coils, & I got pwr to all coils, in respect to the action of plow (raise/lower/left/right). I will check a little further tomorrow when its not 7° outside or in the not heated garage lol...but plow worked great again while I was testing it, and I couldn't get it to repeat what it was doing yet. I will keep test light with me in truck & test when it does it again. I'll put my torpedo heater on it tomorrow too & change fluid & check filter out as well, then get to inspecting the cartridge valves. Thanks to all & I'll let you know how it goes ..


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Is this a 3 plug ultramount?


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

dieselss;1700827 said:


> Is this a 3 plug ultramount?


Yes, a 4 port iso module, and 3 plug system. Iso module has the green label. I can get numbers off it tomorrow, and post them on here.


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

OK here's what I did...I changed fluid and couldn't get the reservoir off without breaking the screws off, so I could see the filter, and I sprayed some carb cleaner in there and let drip & dry. Then took all the coils off, then cartridges out and cleaned up real good. It did look a little gummy and so I took my time with the cleaning of them. I energized them, and did the probe test too. They all preform good as far as opening and closing goes now but like I said they were gummed up, and after cleaning good seemed to work more freely. I put back together and worked the plow left/right/up/down etc, and seems fine for now, but I'm going to try and find some snow to move...I'll let you all know how it goes this evening.....


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

Ok, sounds good! Seams like it should be good to go for now. I went through the same thing a few weeks ago when my one year old fluid was freezing up on me intermittently. Did the flush late @ night inside my friends heated garage but didn't bother to drop the res or remove the coils. I did however make sure to blead the angle pistons completely and sprayed carb cleaner inside. Now we just have to cross our fingers that we get some snow to push!


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

Yeah I plowed a little just a dusting here right now so couldn't do much but 2-4" coming through the night so I will be able to run it longer and see how it does....


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

Still doing same thing. Wondering if its the pump going bad...it sometimes goes up real slow, and when I let up on the button it goes back down ,and sounds like its straining when it does that. I'm still not sure because it might do this a few times in a row, then it will work fine for a while....does the pump work harder to lift the plow than it does to go left or right???....I'm stumped again..lol


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

upplowin;1702752 said:


> Still doing same thing. Wondering if its the pump going bad...it sometimes goes up real slow, and when I let up on the button it goes back down ,and sounds like its straining when it does that. I'm still not sure because it might do this a few times in a row, then it will work fine for a while....does the pump work harder to lift the plow than it does to go left or right???....I'm stumped again..lol


Yes it is harder to lift than angle. Have you tried another control yet?


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

Does it strain if u try to angle it with the plow still on the ground?


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

Snow Commandor;1702942 said:


> Does it strain if u try to angle it with the plow still on the ground?


No, it does not strain while angling when plows on the ground..I think I have to clean & flush my system good because when its working as it should, it works great...cartridge valves were gummy when I took them out the first time and did work more freely when I cleaned them...so Im thinking I have to get a little deeper into it. It still works better than it did but still doing it. I haven't tried another controller yet because no one around here has the same one, but I replaced my circuit board about 3 weeks ago, so I don't think its the controller...reservoir bolts are rusted good and started to strip so I stopped trying to take them out. I'll have to get it on the bench top to tackle that. They will most likely break so I will have to drill out and I'm not to comfortable doing it myself, so will check out some machine shops just in case I have to get in there. But for now I will see how it goes, it might still be a valve, and still have something in them sticking one or the other...


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

upplowin;1702997 said:


> No, it does not strain while angling when plows on the ground..I think I have to clean & flush my system good because when its working as it should, it works great...cartridge valves were gummy when I took them out the first time and did work more freely when I cleaned them...so Im thinking I have to get a little deeper into it. It still works better than it did but still doing it. I haven't tried another controller yet because no one around here has the same one, but I replaced my circuit board about 3 weeks ago, so I don't think its the controller...reservoir bolts are rusted good and started to strip so I stopped trying to take them out. I'll have to get it on the bench top to tackle that. They will most likely break so I will have to drill out and I'm not to comfortable doing it myself, so will check out some machine shops just in case I have to get in there. But for now I will see how it goes, it might still be a valve, and still have something in them sticking one or the other...


Until u get a chance to get it on the bench to remove the res, I would flush it one more time & this time fill it with atf. the atf is thinner & has detergent in it so that will help purge whatever is gumming up the cartridges. I had the blue fluid in mine when it started acting up then I switched back to red atf & I'm never looking back.


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

Boy you really like that atf lol...thanks for the advice but I'm not sold on it yet. I've used it for last two years and had problems with freezing up, that's why I went with the Western Blue. Well, on a good note, I think flushing it out one or two more times will probably do the trick. I plowed some more since my last post and it didn't do it near as much as earlier, and last few jobs went without a hitch....so I'll do it again when I get to the parts store to get more fluid & stuff...do you just use carb cleaner for spraying the filter or is there anything else I should be using?


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

upplowin;1703212 said:


> Boy you really like that atf lol...thanks for the advice but I'm not sold on it yet. I've used it for last two years and had problems with freezing up, that's why I went with the Western Blue. Well, on a good note, I think flushing it out one or two more times will probably do the trick. I plowed some more since my last post and it didn't do it near as much as earlier, and last few jobs went without a hitch....so I'll do it again when I get to the parts store to get more fluid & stuff...do you just use carb cleaner for spraying the filter or is there anything else I should be using?


Yes, carb cleaner is good. and if your in a shop that has a compresser then blow air in the res after u spray with carb cleaner. and I should add; dis connect all 3 lines from the pump and once the fluid is mostly drained from the res, power the unit on and go through the motions with the controller. this will serve to purge the valve body of all fluids. if your fluid is freezing up on u it can only mean that its contaminated with moisture. atf or blue fluid doesn't really matter. either one can get contaminated.


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

OK sounds good, I wasn't sure how to purge the fluid out, thanks... I notice that if I don't put the plow in float position it seems to work better...might be coincidents


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

So snow,,,,how is atf thinner then blue plow fluid?


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## jkmcp45 (Jan 10, 2014)

You got some gum in one of your cartridges the thing your coil mounts on or apiece of oring or something to that affect just pull them out and inspect not complicated. Could also have some rust on one or all little pb wild fix them up oil must of picked up moisture one time or another know I'm new here but i have 8 mm2 plows and have fixed just about every pump problem at one time or another if your module is mounted in good location they are pretty much bulletproof also ck module connections clean if necessary use some dielectric grease to keep moisture out good luck


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

OK, got new problem with this plow...I don't think its as much mechanical as it us electrical...here's why...its performing different actions than what I want it to do which would lead me to the cartridge valves, however #1) I noticed that when I took my plow off to change my u-joints in the front drive shaft,,my plow controller has power to it, and I mean I can operate controller just like the plow was connected to the truck, I can operate all functions on the controller. #2) why do I have pwr to my controller with plow disconnected. I shouldn't have...#3) someone please tell me how to check for pwr coming out of my isolation module? I know I have pwr to it but don't know how to check for pwr coming out while the harness is plugged into port on iso mod. I know how to bench test the controller itself but I have to make a couple of leads (pos+ w/6amp fuse and a neg- lead) but how to test the iso to see if its putting out power when it shouldn't be??????? The plow is a western ultra mount 4 port iso mod with green label #service pn27781, and has 3 plugs outside truck with a 3 pin control harness...


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

OK I just attached my plow to my truck. The controller still had pwr to it before I hooked it up. The plow is working fine for now. Earlier on my last post I had forgot to mention another funny thing it was doing. Sometimes when I push the down button, it will go down slow and the plow motor runs when it goes down slow???wtf! Its like its trying to put power to do two or more actions at the same time...like its trying to release the fluid from the lift ram, and put fluid into lift ram at the same time....I don't think its the valves or coils but something putting pwr to where it shouldn't be at the same time its putting pwr to somewhere else??? I'm going to go mess with it a while...all grounds check out so far and no fuse issues anywhere and relay is doing what it should.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

If the clicker has pwr with out plow hooked up. It's either getting gnded. Or there's pwr where there shouldnt be


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

Sounds like the solenoid is connected wrong. Power going somewere its not supposed to.


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

Just got back in and it worked like it should. I plowed 4 drives and no issues. I'll do some more testing tomorrow...relay is hooked up right double and triple checked wiring. The pwr to the controller has got me stumped for the moment, and when plows not connected its even weirder.


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## upplowin (Aug 25, 2013)

OK, I did a bench test on my controller. I probed the pins related to the function/ action I wanted it to do and followed the chart according to the western mechanics guide. Everything tested good at first but, I found that when I push either right/left/or down buttons then the raise button, it wouldn't release or "stuck" for sometimes 15 seconds or more. Tested this over and over and got it to do it again and again so I definitely have a bad controller. But, that still doesn't explain why there's power TO the controller while the plow is disconnected..... maybe internal isolation problems??? Are there relays inside the iso mod that may be sticking open or something so pwr would through to the controller??? I have to get a new controller, but have to fix this issue of pwr going where or when its not supposed to...any ideas????? Thanks!!


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