# Why I buy Ford



## nor'easter1 (Jan 28, 2003)

First storm of season and first hilly road I encounter and wham I'm slipping all over the road. Figure my tires are old and with the slushy mess out I should have bought new tires. Limp the truck a 2008 f350 xlt gas with 8'6 straight Xblade through the storm and she works better as time goes on. The next day I wonder is my four wheel drive broke. I turn the electronic knob on and here the click drive on dry pavement and no 4 wheel drive. Son of a gun I plowed the 5" of slush with no four wheel drive (I do have a poly caster on however.) Anyway I have a new truck on order so the last thing I want to do is put money into this one. My mechanic says he's why you buy ford, your vacuum seal is broken but ford gives you the manuel locking hubs so lock the hubs full time and when you need it turn the dial and boom your in business. I don't believe Chevy or Dodge give you this critical second chance for me I avoided repair costs and can limp the truck to the trade in line.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Ford makes the best plow truck for sure. Little things make the difference.
But they could be better...

I want all snow plow prep trucks to get..

Rear window defroster...
Electric defrost on the bottom 3" of the windshield..
Heated wipers...
Cab lights and mirror lights that strobe..
Extra bright reverse lights...
Duct work that puts hot air to your LEFT foot..
Dual batteries..
Even larger mirrors..at least 2" wider..


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## Robinson_Cnst (Jan 4, 2013)

One of my favorite things about my 05 Ram 3500 is there is no hubs or axle disconnect. Simply pull the lever back and your in 4x4. Less parts = less problems imo.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

nor'easter1;1889550 said:


> First storm of season and first hilly road I encounter and wham I'm slipping all over the road. Figure my tires are old and with the slushy mess out I should have bought new tires. Limp the truck a 2008 f350 xlt gas with 8'6 straight Xblade through the storm and she works better as time goes on. The next day I wonder is my four wheel drive broke. I turn the electronic knob on and here the click drive on dry pavement and no 4 wheel drive. Son of a gun I plowed the 5" of slush with no four wheel drive (I do have a poly caster on however.) Anyway I have a new truck on order so the last thing I want to do is put money into this one. My mechanic says he's why you buy ford, your vacuum seal is broken but ford gives you the manuel locking hubs so lock the hubs full time and when you need it turn the dial and boom your in business. I don't believe Chevy or Dodge give you this critical second chance for me I avoided repair costs and can limp the truck to the trade in line.


Just for future reference, you should always have your front hubs manually locked in when plowing. Auto locking hubs unlock and re-lock every time the vehicle changes direction (forward to reverse and reverse to forward). This constant switching in and out is very hard on the hubs and will damage them if you leave them in the auto position. This is why they have the manual setting on them. I believe this is covered in the owners manual, (is in mine).


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Buswell Forest;1889556 said:


> Ford makes the best plow truck for sure. Little things make the difference.
> But they could be better...
> 
> I want all snow plow prep trucks to get..
> ...


Mirrors are perfect insize now

Rear defrog. No need for window at all

Agreed on most other things


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## Mike NY (Feb 2, 2009)

Outside Temp would be nice w/ plow prep.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

Robinson_Cnst;1889561 said:


> One of my favorite things about my 05 Ram 3500 is there is no hubs or axle disconnect. Simply pull the lever back and your in 4x4. Less parts = less problems imo.


until the CV joint explodes and takes out the transfer case, transmission, all the wiring, fuel lines, and sometimes floorboards of the truck .


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

i never have that problem, because i refuse to own a truck with electric 4X4. manual shift and hubs, or i don't own it.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

tjctransport;1889680 said:


> until the CV joint explodes and takes out the transfer case, transmission, all the wiring, fuel lines, and sometimes floorboards of the truck .


Had a Ford to just exactly that...never a Dodge.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Because chicks dig guys that drive fords.

PS Get a black one. 

https://autos.yahoo.com/news/study--women-most-attracted-to-guys-in-trucks-222507614.html


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Robinson_Cnst;1889561 said:


> One of my favorite things about my 05 Ram 3500 is there is no hubs or axle disconnect. Simply pull the lever back and your in 4x4. Less parts = less problems imo.





tjctransport;1889680 said:


> until the CV joint explodes and takes out the transfer case, transmission, all the wiring, fuel lines, and sometimes floorboards of the truck .


I have found greasing it regularly (every oil change eliminates this), it's called maintenance.

why would you let it go to the point it explodes?
Most of the time they only go on trucks with extreme lifts.

oh never mind, you must be talking about the cv joint on the fords....
my bad


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

tjctransport;1889682 said:


> i never have that problem, because i refuse to own a truck with electric 4X4. manual shift and hubs, or i don't own it.


Same here and it can be a b!tch finding trucks without electronic shift 4X4


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

This is what I do. Lock them in manually,


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## CAT 245ME (Sep 10, 2006)

BUFF;1889765 said:


> Same here and it can be a b!tch finding trucks without electronic shift 4X4


That's the problem, looking at used low mileage trucks they are almost all electronic shift. My electric shift leaves me stranded fairly often. Vehicles today are like women, very complicated.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

tjctransport;1889682 said:


> i never have that problem, because i refuse to own a truck with electric 4X4. manual shift and hubs, or i don't own it.


Yeah, i used to be the same way, only man shift and man hubs, but i got sick of having to get out of the truck every afternoon to lock in my hubs so i could get up the little hill into the field where i dumped my grass/leaves. So my newest truck, i went with auto trans/auto hubs. Much better now, and like i said, if you manually lock auto hubs when plowing, you do away with 90% of 4x4 issues. JMO


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## jimslawnsnow (Jan 3, 2013)

nor'easter1;1889550 said:


> First storm of season and first hilly road I encounter and wham I'm slipping all over the road. Figure my tires are old and with the slushy mess out I should have bought new tires. Limp the truck a 2008 f350 xlt gas with 8'6 straight Xblade through the storm and she works better as time goes on. The next day I wonder is my four wheel drive broke. I turn the electronic knob on and here the click drive on dry pavement and no 4 wheel drive. Son of a gun I plowed the 5" of slush with no four wheel drive (I do have a poly caster on however.) Anyway I have a new truck on order so the last thing I want to do is put money into this one. My mechanic says he's why you buy ford, your vacuum seal is broken but ford gives you the manuel locking hubs so lock the hubs full time and when you need it turn the dial and boom your in business. I don't believe Chevy or Dodge give you this critical second chance for me I avoided repair costs and can limp the truck to the trade in line.


when I had mine the seal was always out. on my dodge I never have had a problem. the ford never had a plow. the dodge has had it since new in 06


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## nor'easter1 (Jan 28, 2003)

Lesson learned! You get a different opinion from everyone on lock em don't. Sales guy said why bother locking if you have an electric switch so I didn't. also when I went to manually lock driver side it was frozen in the sense of rust so I had to take it off and turn it on a work bench. Safe to say she will be in the locked position until January when the new truck is due in.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

CAT 245ME;1889818 said:


> That's the problem, looking at used low mileage trucks they are almost all electronic shift. My electric shift leaves me stranded fairly often. Vehicles today are like women, very complicated.


I'm looking into replacing my '08 F-350, there's some great incentives going on and I have the cash to buy not finance. I email the specs of what I'm looking for to the sales guy I've bought from before at my local Ford dealer. He does a search and comes back with a few trucks that are close but they all have electronic shift. I'm already having a hard enough time with the idea of going from a manual trans to an auto and don't want mickey mouse 4wd.
I'm being told it's 8wks to build a truck they way I want, guess I'll wait if I decide to move forward.


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

It appears you have to stick with an XL to get manual shift although I haven't checked with the dealer yet. Being able to shift into 4wd at the flick of a switch is nice until you have problems and then it gets expensive.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

SnoFarmer;1889759 said:


> I have found greasing it regularly (every oil change eliminates this), it's called maintenance.
> 
> why would you let it go to the point it explodes?
> Most of the time they only go on trucks with extreme lifts.
> ...


because the dodge does not come from the factory with zirk fittings.
and the trucks i am talking about are serviced every time they are returned from rental. 
every single one of the gold plated dodges have had the drive shaft blow out at least once, to the tune of a $12,000 repair. 
this is the main reason they are phasing out the dodges from the fleet. 
but with over 100 trucks, it will take a year or so to get rid of them all. 
and the oldest one is only 3 years old.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

jimbo64;1889938 said:


> It appears you have to stick with an XL to get manual shift although I haven't checked with the dealer yet. Being able to shift into 4wd at the flick of a switch is nice until you have problems and then it gets expensive.


nope. fully loaded 2015 F-350 diesel 4X4 XL with lariat interior option with manual transfer case. 
you just need to order it that way..


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

jimbo64;1889938 said:


> It appears you have to stick with an XL to get manual shift although I haven't checked with the dealer yet. Being able to shift into 4wd at the flick of a switch is nice until you have problems and then it gets expensive.


Even in a XL it's difficult to find one with a lever instead of a button.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

BUFF;1889881 said:


> I'm looking into replacing my '08 F-350, there's some great incentives going on and I have the cash to buy not finance. I email the specs of what I'm looking for to the sales guy I've bought from before at my local Ford dealer. He does a search and comes back with a few trucks that are close but they all have electronic shift. I'm already having a hard enough time with the idea of going from a manual trans to an auto and don't want mickey mouse 4wd.
> I'm being told it's 8wks to build a truck they way I want, guess I'll wait if I decide to move forward.


I could put up with a few things not quite right on a truck, but the ABSOLUTE last thing i would want on a truck i was going to be plowing with is a manual trans. Not only would my left leg fall off by the end of a 20 hr plow-a-thon, but i would also be willing to bet that you would spend more money maintaining a man (clutch disc, throw out bearing, pressure plate) than you will with a auto (fluid/filter change). Also, for what it is worth, the 6spd torque shift auto is a sweet trans and if you just feel like you really have to be in control once in a while, it does have a manual mode. JMO


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

derekslawncare;1889980 said:


> I could put up with a few things not quite right on a truck, but the ABSOLUTE last thing i would want on a truck i was going to be plowing with is a manual trans. Not only would my left leg fall off by the end of a 20 hr plow-a-thon, but i would also be willing to bet that you would spend more money maintaining a man (clutch disc, throw out bearing, pressure plate) than you will with a auto (fluid/filter change). Also, for what it is worth, the 6sp torgue shift is a sweet trans and if you just feel like you really have to be in control once in a while, it does have a manual mode. JMO


I've been legally driving for 37yrs and never owned a auto trans in any vehicle. Back in the day before hydraulic clutches fatigue was an issues. I also had a few trucks with manual steering and brakes. 
I've run trucks over 200k with out replacing the clutch and only drained the trans oil. If a clutch was to go out you'd have $500-600 in parts (not including fly wheel replacement if needed) and a better part of a day to complete the job instead of taking it to a shop for repair and being at the mercy of their schedule. 
I've driven family and friends truck with the 6sp torque shift, yes they are pretty nice and you can manually override them. Since I'm being forced into an auto only from Ford I have no choice and will need to figure out what to do with my left leg, but I still want a lever for 4wd if its an option.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

BUFF;1889988 said:


> I've been legally driving for 37yrs and never owned a auto trans in any vehicle. Back in the day before hydraulic clutches fatigue was an issues. I also had a few trucks with manual steering and brakes.
> I've run trucks over 200k with out replacing the clutch and only drained the trans oil. If a clutch was to go out you'd have $500-600 in parts (not including fly wheel replacement if needed) and a better part of a day to complete the job instead of taking it to a shop for repair and being at the mercy of their schedule.
> I've driven family and friends truck with the 6sp torque shift, yes they are pretty nice and you can manually override them. Since I'm being forced into an auto only from Ford I have no choice and will need to figure out what to do with my left leg, but I still want a lever for 4wd if its an option.


Hey, believe me, with the money these new trucks cost, I FULLY understand you wanting it the way you want it. I'm just saying, no way in heck I would have a manual. R-D, R-D & steer with the left, plow control in the right. Much easier IMO.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

With all those failed electronic shift transfer cases and hubs, it is a great mystery why all 3 makers STILL have them. 
This is JUST like my reason for NEVER owning a car or truck with power windows....they fail, and then you are deep in debt! And if you go into the lake?? Kiss your azz goodbye brother! You are going to drown!

You guys crack me up.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

derekslawncare;1890067 said:


> Hey, believe me, with the money these new trucks cost, I FULLY understand you wanting it the way you want it. I'm just saying, no way in heck I would have a manual. R-D, R-D & steer with the left, plow control in the right. Much easier IMO.


You can be as busy as a hog on ice if your not use to it. I hold my controller in my right hand, run it with my thumb while shifting and I can still hit the vibrator push switch which is mounted to the shifter. The nice thing is the cord for the controller isn't in the way because I have velcro straps that hold/ strap it to the shifter.
This may sound bizarre but it works very well. I'm going to have to retrain myself and find a easy access place for the vibrator push switch when the time comes.


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

tjctransport;1889963 said:


> nope. fully loaded 2015 F-350 diesel 4X4 XL with lariat interior option with manual transfer case.
> you just need to order it that way..


Wait you can get a truck in leather without getting the lariat option?!? I have built many trucks online and never saw that option. Vinyl yes but not leather


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

No, you can't. Just like the hubs do not unlock and relock when you put it in reverse.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

BUFF;1889964 said:


> Even in a XL it's difficult to find one with a lever instead of a button.


 Yep my father bought one yesterday it was a XLT with manual shifter and has manual hubs. I may switch my hubs for manual ones. There is times I like using Low side and I don't want the front end be lock in



derekslawncare;1889980 said:


> I could put up with a few things not quite right on a truck, but the ABSOLUTE last thing i would want on a truck i was going to be plowing with is a manual trans. Not only would my left leg fall off by the end of a 20 hr plow-a-thon, but i would also be willing to bet that you would spend more money maintaining a man (clutch disc, throw out bearing, pressure plate) than you will with a auto (fluid/filter change). Also, for what it is worth, the 6spd torque shift auto is a sweet trans and if you just feel like you really have to be in control once in a while, it does have a manual mode. JMO


If you always ran a auto you may not like a stick 
I ran a Stick to plow with since 87 I think you have better control of the tires 
My personal truck has always been a stick even my family truck is a stick 
When you get use to it your left leg will be strong just watch it when get in a Auto you dont slam on the brakes with your left foot.

As far controls mine is on the dash at same height as First gear So my finger will reach all the buttons and my V box controller is in the seat next to my leg.

Few Snows I plowed this year in my new F350 was ok but I think I will get bored running it and its to comfortable might fall a sleep . With a stick I feel more alert in it.
Once the snow start really falling Trust me I'll be in My 99 F350 5speed since nobody that works for me will plow with it. They all cry about the stick


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Antlerart06;1890683 said:


> Yep my father bought one yesterday it was a XLT with manual shifter and has manual hubs. I may switch my hubs for manual ones. There is times I like using Low side and I don't want the front end be lock in
> 
> If you always ran a auto you may not like a stick
> I ran a Stick to plow with since 87 I think you have better control of the tires
> ...


To sum it up......... people have become lazy and old guys like shifting........
Also a manual trans is the only way to go when it comes to driving in the mountains especially when pulling a trailer.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

BUFF;1890693 said:


> To sum it up......... people have become lazy and old guys like shifting........
> Also a manual trans is the only way to go when it comes to driving in the mountains especially when pulling a trailer.


Yep learned that in 2000 when I went to Taylor Park Co. To ride ATVs for a week
Family Ford Van was a auto and we didn't make up the first incline out of Colorado Spring The Van stayed there at Ford and we went on to Taylor Park in a new F250 99 5.4 5 speed cewcab That's when I bought are new Family/wifes truck LOL That vacation cost some $$$
I still own that truck went back 5 more years and Utah once ND. and SD. Mich. and lots of trips to Branson / Lake of Ozarks South Mo.
Still running same factory clutch 189k on it


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## Pit Crew (Mar 19, 2014)

To the auto,manual trans debate. Was taught to drive with a manual trans 44 yrs ago,age 11. Never drove an auto until drivers training in high school. Have had many manual trans vehicle's. Still have a 1980 Malibu 4 speed car that I have owned over 30yrs. But to plow with manual is something I would rather not do. Could I,yes . Would I, yes .rather I, hell no. I drive an auto with both feet because of that. Don`t know why I use both feet to drive, been asked that many times. Learning in manual is the best reason I can come up with. Love driving manual trans (especially the Malibu)but my daily driver has to be an auto any more.I have always had manual hubs in plow trucks,this 2014 f250 is the first one with out. Should hubs be manually locked in when plowing?


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Pit Crew;1890734 said:


> To the auto,manual trans debate. Was taught to drive with a manual trans 44 yrs ago,age 11. Never drove an auto until drivers training in high school. Have had many manual trans vehicle's. Still have a 1980 Malibu 4 speed car that I have owned over 30yrs. But to plow with manual is something I would rather not do. Could I,yes . Would I, yes .rather I, hell no. I drive an auto with both feet because of that. Don`t know why I use both feet to drive, been asked that many times. Learning in manual is the best reason I can come up with. Love driving manual trans (especially the Malibu)but my daily driver has to be an auto any more.I have always had manual hubs in plow trucks,this 2014 f250 is the first one with out. Should hubs be manually locked in when plowing?


Yes, manually lock hubs when plowing. If it wasn't needed sometimes, they wouldn't give you the option. The reason that is there is that when it is in auto, they unlock and re-lock every time the vehicle changes direction. I know someone up above says I'm wrong, but sorry was ASE certified mechanic for 15 years and yes they do. Read your owners manual, it's right there in black and white. Not trying to start a fight, just saying it's there and they spent the money to put it there for a reason.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF;1890693 said:


> To sum it up......... people have become lazy and old guys like shifting........
> Also a manual trans is the only way to go when it comes to driving in the mountains especially when pulling a trailer.


Work smarter, not harder. Maybe you like to keep that leg strong for chasing sheep. :laughing::laughing:

You need to move into the 20th century.

Between the HP, torque, T\H modes, standard exhaust brake I'll take a bet on which is the only way.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

True story 

Back in the 80's I had a couple cousins come over from Ireland. Both were schoolteachers and came over on work visas to make extra cash for the summer. My cousin Tom got on with a bricklayer, my father gave him our 79 diesel pick up truck to drive. He also asked me to teach him how to drive here on the stateside of the puddle. (You know, left hand vs right). 

We pulled out of the driveway and off we went. He had never driven a automatic transmission in his 20 something years. In Ireland, they were considered a luxury and thetax skyhigh. The 1st stop, he put his right foot and the brake, his left also on the brake except to the floor. I slammed the dash hard that day and a few more times that afternoon. It took him forever to learn how to drive a automatic, the big ass brake pedal didn't help either.


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## Sprag-O (Dec 31, 2013)

derekslawncare;1890750 said:


> Yes, manually lock hubs when plowing. If it wasn't needed sometimes, they wouldn't give you the option. The reason that is there is that when it is in auto, they unlock and re-lock every time the vehicle changes direction. I know someone up above says I'm wrong, but sorry was ASE certified mechanic for 15 years and yes they do. Read your owners manual, it's right there in black and white. Not trying to start a fight, just saying it's there and they spent the money to put it there for a reason.


Not that I'm knocking you, but I can't find it in any of the later F250/F350 Manuals.

I thought on at least the fords, you get 40 seconds of vacuum to suck the nylon retainer into place and that's it, then maybe it retains negative pressure after that. Why would the hubs unlock when changing gears? And why do the remain locked even in neutral?

I've always read the manual locking hubs were a fail-safe. These trucks get used in nasty places like oil fields and pole lines, and it's nice to have that option when vacuum fails.

I've also read that these hubs fail locked, but none of the diagrams I've ever seen support that.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

derekslawncare;1890750 said:


> Yes, manually lock hubs when plowing. If it wasn't needed sometimes, they wouldn't give you the option. The reason that is there is that when it is in auto, they unlock and re-lock every time the vehicle changes direction. I know someone up above says I'm wrong, but sorry was ASE certified mechanic for 15 years and yes they do. Read your owners manual, it's right there in black and white. Not trying to start a fight, just saying it's there and they spent the money to put it there for a reason.


Why would they unlock They run off vacuum I had Auto locking hubs on older ford trucks never heard this before

I was told the reason of auto and able lock in solid was if the autos loose vacuum it was a fail safe item to lock in manual But Friday when I go with my Father to pick up his new one up Friday I will ask 
Be something good to know either way


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Well, I just went out and got my owner's manual out of my truck (2012 F-550) because I just KNEW that I had seen it and was bound to be right. 

Well, OPEN MOUTH AND INSERT FOOT. I can't find it anywhere. Sooooo, I will admit that at this point I can no longer say to read your owner's manual; it's in there, because it apparently isn't. Maybe it was in an older manual, I had owned an 03 and 05 prior to this. However, having said that, I still say that at one time or another, over my career as an auto mechanic, I did read that SOMEWHERE. Maybe it was on the computer at work in the "repair manual" software, don't remember the name of it, but it is where all the TSB's (technical service bulletins) and repair instructions are for mechanics to look at while working on a vehicle. 

So, while I can't say that "it says to do it," I still stand by my recommendation that that is what you should do.


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## Sprag-O (Dec 31, 2013)

Ya, I think the only difference is when using the auto hubs, vacuum pulls the retainer into place, there's a chance of losing suction and it failing. If you manually lock the hub, the hubs pushes that retainer into place physically without vacuum, preventing it from falling back into place.

6 in one, half a dozen the other... I don't see where one's rougher on the truck than the other.

That said, if you are constantly in and out of 4wd, then it's less wear on the hubs/retainer/spines to just leave them in for a night of plowing. This will reduce the life of your front axle and driveshaft u-joints/cv's, not sure about the bearings on the input shaft of the transfer case etc... but just something to think about.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

derekslawncare;1890837 said:


> Well, I just went out and got my owner's manual out of my truck (2012 F-550) because I just KNEW that I had seen it and was bound to be right.
> 
> Well, OPEN MOUTH AND INSERT FOOT. I can't find it anywhere. Sooooo, I will admit that at this point I can no longer say to read your owner's manual; it's in there, because it apparently isn't. Maybe it was in an older manual, I had owned an 03 and 05 prior to this. However, having said that, I still say that at one time or another, over my career as an auto mechanic, I did read that SOMEWHERE. Maybe it was on the computer at work in the "repair manual" software, don't remember the name of it, but it is where all the TSB's (technical service bulletins) and repair instructions are for mechanics to look at while working on a vehicle.
> 
> So, while I can't say that "it says to do it," I still stand by my recommendation that that is what you should do.


I check my Fathers 99 F350 owners manual it had auto hubs and It doesn't say anything on what you are talking about 
Its ready to trade off Friday and I'll ask Ford Dealership about what you are saying.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Antlerart06;1890711 said:


> Yep learned that in 2000 when I went to Taylor Park Co. To ride ATVs for a week
> Family Ford Van was a auto and we didn't make up the first incline out of Colorado Spring The Van stayed there at Ford and we went on to Taylor Park in a new F250 99 5.4 5 speed cewcab That's when I bought are new Family/wifes truck LOL That vacation cost some $$$
> I still own that truck went back 5 more years and Utah once ND. and SD. Mich. and lots of trips to Branson / Lake of Ozarks South Mo.
> Still running same factory clutch 189k on it


24 out of the Springs can be an interesting road.... I've got friends in South Park (Buena Vista and Salida) and know that area pretty well. We ride out dirt bikes from Salida to Aspen and back in a day, a long @$$ day.

You being a ATV guy I you have heard of or riden the Kokopelli Trail from Grand Junction Co to Moab? It's 140miles of trail through the desert, takes about 8-9hrs and you have to carry fuel. I've done it a couple time on my Husky 610 which I have a 5gallon tank for. It's a heck of a ride and well worth taking.



Mark Oomkes;1890752 said:


> Work smarter, not harder. Maybe you like to keep that leg strong for chasing sheep. :laughing::laughing:
> 
> You need to move into the 20th century.
> 
> Between the HP, torque, T\H modes, standard exhaust brake I'll take a bet on which is the only way.


This is not a GV thread Mr Derailer..........

BTW I did move to the 20th century by getting a V-Plow last fall.....



Sprag-O;1890876 said:


> Ya, I think the only difference is when using the auto hubs, vacuum pulls the retainer into place, there's a chance of losing suction and it failing. If you manually lock the hub, the hubs pushes that retainer into place physically without vacuum, preventing it from falling back into place.
> 
> 6 in one, half a dozen the other... I don't see where one's rougher on the truck than the other.
> 
> That said, if you are constantly in and out of 4wd, then it's less wear on the hubs/retainer/spines to just leave them in for a night of plowing. This will reduce the life of your front axle and driveshaft u-joints/cv's, not sure about the bearings on the input shaft of the transfer case etc... but just something to think about.


I went to my local Ford dealer to check out trucks and talk to service about the auto hubs. What you described is basically how they work and I'm good with that. I asked the question about how the transfer case is engaged and if there was an mechanical override if needed. He said they've never seen an issue and said if you did you'd just need to use 2wd till it was fixed. I told him I spend a great deal of time in sage brush country on 2 track (no cell service)and when it rains I need 4wd to get back to gravel or pavement. He suggested a set of chains and I told him I've had to chain up all four, he had nothing to add but said he'd talk to a mechanic and let me know.

I'm almost ok with them and will probably embrace technology.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Kinda drawing a blank here but I want to say the front end is always spinning in 4high. Just locking the hubs in manually will give you 4 wheel drive.


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## Sprag-O (Dec 31, 2013)

Im unsure if our t-case actually disconnects the front driveline at all when in 2wd. Like most I'd like to think so.

In that case things still spin a little, due to other nearby parts rotating, friction etc... You're shaft is still sitting inside the hub/wheel assembly, even if not directly connected it will still spin a little.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

yea, I know what ur saying but something has to be up to speed for everything to lock in. I shaft spinning at 5 mph when engaging a hub doing 60 mph isn't going to last long.

I swear just by locking in the hub, the 4wheel drive is locked in


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## Sprag-O (Dec 31, 2013)

Pretty certain 2wd is 2wd... I think the synchro hub picks up the slack.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

BUFF;1891445 said:


> 24 out of the Springs can be an interesting road.... I've got friends in South Park (Buena Vista and Salida) and know that area pretty well. We ride out dirt bikes from Salida to Aspen and back in a day, a long @$$ day.
> 
> You being a ATV guy I you have heard of or riden the Kokopelli Trail from Grand Junction Co to Moab? It's 140miles of trail through the desert, takes about 8-9hrs and you have to carry fuel. I've done it a couple time on my Husky 610 which I have a 5gallon tank for. It's a heck of a ride and well worth taking.
> 
> .


 We always went to Taylor Park We new the area and enjoyed it back in the 80s we would go out there and ride bikes Ride the Timber line trail That's a fun and cool ride Some places was a real thrill 
Back in 2001 We was able ride some that trail with ATVs 
I have friends that's been on the KoKopelli I guess I forgot the name But They said was a 140 or 150 mile trail from Grand Junction to Moab

One time We took off from Taylor Park and went to Aspen Co the long way the way the eagle fly's We pack fuel still some family members ran out We drag them to gas station in Aspen Was a 2 day round trip which we stop a lot


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## Tony350 (Feb 6, 2010)

When in two wheel drive the transfer case is discinnected. I am assuming this be cause if in 2wd and hubs on auto, you can spin the front driveshaft by hand if you go under the truck.

If you have it in 2wd but have the hubs locked the drive shaft will be locked to front tires. Meaning if you are barely moving forward with the back tires spinning the front driveshaft will be rotating at the speed that the front tires are rolling at.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

1olddogtwo;1891499 said:


> yea, I know what ur saying but something has to be up to speed for everything to lock in. I shaft spinning at 5 mph when engaging a hub doing 60 mph isn't going to last long.
> 
> I swear just by locking in the hub, the 4wheel drive is locked in


4 wheel drive does not engage just by locking the hubs. 
you want proof? lock the hubs and drive into a large goopy mud pit.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

In was having a foggy moment in life......damn old age.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Once in a while I get a scary CLUNK when I engage 4 hi at around 20.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

When I went with my Father to pick his New one up I ask
Auto is ok for plowing snow He said if you on Clay or in mud any where its biting hard He said best manually lock the hubs in
And the thing unlocking between R-D He just LOL he said no and said he have tons people ask him same question 
Well My father got the Shift on the fly. The truck he was first talking about it came with 4.30 with maual hubs he wanted 3.73 
and that truck had Auto hubs 
My self I would took the other truck it was rubber floor not Carpet But he wanted 3.73 He didn't order this truck Dealer found it on a different lot


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Tony350;1893378 said:


> When in two wheel drive the transfer case is discinnected. I am assuming this be cause if in 2wd and hubs on auto, you can spin the front drive shaft by hand if you go under the truck.
> 
> OK, the more I think about this, the more I think that I may be thinking of the older 4x4 units. When I first got into working on cars for a living, (1989) I believe that the 4x4 units back then, with transfer case in 2wd, you could reach up and rotate the front drive shaft by hand. I remember doing this in order to get the driveline grease fittings where they could be greased. I remember on the trucks with auto hubs, that rotating the drive shaft far enough would engage the hubs and you could no longer spin the shaft. If you reversed the shaft rotation, the hubs would unlock and then re-lock going the other direction, if you spun the shaft far enough. This was the days prior to vacuum actuated hubs. These were also the 4x4's that after you shifted the vehicle from 4wd to 2wd, you then backed up about 20 feet to get the hubs to unlock. I remember if you did this with the window down, or the truck up on a lift and rotated tires by hand you could actually hear the hubs click as they unlocked.
> 
> Having said all that, I went full time with my lawn business in 2006, so it has been awhile since I have worked on cars and OBVIOUSLY things have changed since then. So, I just has always had it in my head that auto hubs lock and unlock when you switch directions.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

derekslawncare;1893506 said:


> Tony350;1893378 said:
> 
> 
> > When in two wheel drive the transfer case is discinnected. I am assuming this be cause if in 2wd and hubs on auto, you can spin the front drive shaft by hand if you go under the truck.
> ...


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Antlerart06;1893515 said:


> derekslawncare;1893506 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes older Auto hubs I'll agree On my 83 chevy It came with auto hubs they was a pain in the A$$ Wasn't long putting on manual hubs
> ...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

derekslawncare;1893530 said:


> Antlerart06;1893515 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, so I'm a day or two behind the times. But I knew that I remembered it being that way once upon a time, so I'm not COMPLETELY crazy. LOL
> ...


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

Buswell Forest;1893446 said:


> Once in a while I get a scary CLUNK when I engage 4 hi at around 20.


I know it's supposed to be ok to shift in and out of 4wd "on the fly" but I can never bring myself to do it. I normally **** at a stop or when I am barely moving.


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## Sprag-O (Dec 31, 2013)

jimbo64;1893550 said:


> I know it's supposed to be ok to shift in and out of 4wd "on the fly" but I can never bring myself to do it. I normally **** at a stop or when I am barely moving.


Yeah, that's why I posted the exploded diagram so we could see how that works... Driveline still is spinning a little at speed so it's not coming from a dead stop, but there's a synchro pack in the hub similar to a manual transmission sychro, speeds up the d-shaft and engages. After that I would assume it activates the hubs since the front end should be at a matched speed. I still stop before engaging unless absolutely necessary.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

I recall my '95 full size Bronco's auto hubs would lock/unlock going back and forth. The auto hubs died twice, and it didn't have the ability to manually lock the hubs so I would lise the 4wd. I manually lock the hubs in both of my current F350s. 

Why I buy Fords.......the door key pads. Solves the issue of getting locked out.


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

seville009;1893732 said:


> I recall my '95 full size Bronco's auto hubs would lock/unlock going back and forth. The auto hubs died twice, and it didn't have the ability to manually lock the hubs so I would lise the 4wd. I manually lock the hubs in both of my current F350s.
> 
> Why I buy Fords.......the door key pads. Solves the issue of getting locked out.


That is probably my favorite feature about my truck. I love it and didn't realize how handy it was until I had it


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## 07PSDCREW (Sep 4, 2011)

Sprag-O;1893608 said:


> Yeah, that's why I posted the exploded diagram so we could see how that works... Driveline still is spinning a little at speed so it's not coming from a dead stop, but there's a synchro pack in the hub similar to a manual transmission sychro, speeds up the d-shaft and engages. After that I would assume it activates the hubs since the front end should be at a matched speed. I still stop before engaging unless absolutely necessary.


I'm sure someone will knock me for this but I'm just chiming in with my experience as a Ford mechanic. 
I read this whole thread and this is pretty much the most accurate statement of all. The front shafts do not spin until the transfer case is engaged. The shaft is engaged with a clutch pack. Hence the slight clunk. Then Vacuume is applied to the front hubs to engage them. The hubs use Vac to keep them disengaged and a different psi to engage them. They do not lock and unlock on newer 03 up trucks (speaking for Fords here). 
Auto hubs usually fail because dirt/debris has contaminated the axle hub seal or clogged the vac hole. Or the vacc solenoid has failed. That is where the manual mode comes in handy. 
Someone mentioned they fail in the engaged position, that is only true of the IWE auto hubs on F150. If you shut the truck off, you cannot rotate the axle by hand if the tire is on the ground. It uses vacuume to keep them disengaged. Anyone who has driven the f150 for any length of time will eventually hear the sound of a failing seal on an IWE. They start grinding and slam in as you slow down, or if you catch it in time just turn the 4wd knob on to stop the grind.

I myself have a Lariat with a manual lever and manual hubs. I leave them locked for the duration of the storm and maybe a week after. Then they get unlocked till the next storm.


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## broke down (Oct 23, 2011)

I too have bought several Fords for the reasons listed in this thread. As others have stated it is hard to find a truck with out the" shift on the fly "feature. This to me is the part I worry about. Has anyone figured out how to manually "lock in" the transfer case if this feature should fail.


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## Sprag-O (Dec 31, 2013)

broke down;1894928 said:


> I too have bought several Fords for the reasons listed in this thread. As others have stated it is hard to find a truck with out the" shift on the fly "feature. This to me is the part I worry about. Has anyone figured out how to manually "lock in" the transfer case if this feature should fail.


NV271 (Manual)









NV273 (Electric)









Both Transfer cases are similar, I imagine you could pull the 'gearmotor assembly' and spin the sector shaft till the forks drop in the right place... The only real failure point between the two appears to be the motor.

If anyone is that afraid their rig is going to leave them stranded, drop $80-100 on a spare motor, it's 3 bolts...


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## snowplower1 (Jan 15, 2014)

Ok im lost here, i honestly have no clue about anything with these hubs but i have them on my 2015 ford f-350. Someone please tell me what i should do. I Plow obviously but i will typically switch from 4wd while going from place to place unless it is really bad out, so when should i lock the hubs? or should i just always leave them in auto? Please explain when to use what for them so i dont mess anything up on my truck


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## Sprag-O (Dec 31, 2013)

Using the Auto feature wears the innards of the hub faster, Manually locking wears your front driveline faster...

Pick your poison.


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## snowplower1 (Jan 15, 2014)

Sprag-O;1895314 said:


> Using the Auto feature wears the innards of the hub faster, Manually locking wears your front driveline faster...
> 
> Pick your poison.


Which costs more

And if i just leave it in auto for driving and manual for plowing it would probably even out better right


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## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

all plow vehicles i have ever owned are maual shift and manual hubs - no electric push buttons, no vacuum hubs. and thats the way i will always run a plow truck. 

that said, my hubs are locked (manually cause thats the only option i have) for an entire storm. between jobs i will shift (again manually as thats my only option) into 2wd and then back into 4wd at the next job. 

after a storm if driving the truck and i don't see a potential need for immmediate 4wd, i will manually unlock the hubs - and of course put the transfer case back in 2wd. as most of you know, a transfer case in 4wd with the hubs unlocked is still 2wd.

another nice thing about entirely manual hubs (other than their superior durability) is i can go into low range in 2wd - just leave the hubs unlocked and put transfer case into 4low. a nice option to have when slowly navigating a heavy trailer into some tight places. 

so for these reasons (and probably more) i will take the very slight inconvience of having to get out of my truck to lock the hubs over a vacuum operated hub (even if it has the manual override option) any day.


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## Sprag-O (Dec 31, 2013)

By all means, if you want durability, standard locking hubs and manual t-case are the way to go.

I enjoy the convenience of my Electric shift on the fly setup. If my hubs are in the mud or a snow bank, I don't have to get out and lock them.

That said, the *only* issue I've ever had with a transfer case shifting, was the manual linkages on an NV231 blowing up. Had to dig a 'fit for me' hole under a jeep in snow, disconnect, and manually engage the forks myself.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Sprag-O;1895314 said:


> Using the Auto feature wears the innards of the hub faster, Manually locking wears your front driveline faster...
> 
> Pick your poison.


Not to pull a Mark O and wander off topic..... newer Dodge and GM's don't have the option of disengaging the front diff at the wheel and the diff internals are always rotating.
My hubs are locked in until the roads are clear.
Also it's my belief to periodically lock the hubs in to sling oil in the diff to keep things lubricated.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF;1895425 said:


> Not to pull a Mark O and wander off topic.....


Hey, I resemble that remark. 



BUFF;1895425 said:


> newer Dodge and GM's don't have the option of disengaging the front diff at the wheel and the diff internals are always rotating.
> My hubs are locked in until the roads are clear.
> Also it's my belief to periodically lock the hubs in to sling oil in the diff to keep things lubricated.


Our manual hubs--all of them after the vacuum seal goes to crap--stay locked from aboot late October through mid April.

Always have, even back when Buff was middle aged.


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