# Haligans vs. Strobes vs. LED's



## Pirsch (Jun 1, 2007)

Ok... It was bright and sunny here in Dayton today. I came across several different work vehicles doing construction. They had 90 watt strobes (I stopped and checked them out) They were washed out in the sun... They had LED's on other trucks were bright but their regular 4 way amber turn signals you could actually see from a distance. The other trucks had good ol' 55 watt Haligan mini bars on them and I could see them from a decent distance.

In your opinion... What do you guys look for... Show, Safety, Being seen in Day/Night or just anything that flashes or Piercing Factor? 

I'm a retired Fire Fighter and from what I've seen lately is that alot of Fire equipment is going back to Rotators and LED/Strobe Combo's but the strobes aren't in area's of major importance.

So what do you think?


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

I think some people use them for safety. more use them for show. i dont have any if i get some they will be cheapest crap i can find that makes me seen when im backing from behind a pile of snow.
i have no intentions of getting any in the near future and only have a magent led rotator that plugs into the cigarette lighter. I think i would actually be embarassed by the amounts of lights some people put on their trucks. thank god i dont have to ride in them. I would feel like a idiot. I can see if you are plowing a busy parking lot but some of these guys have brighter lights than the town plows and they are only banging out a some driveways or a couple of small commercials... lol
i guess as long as it makes them feel important. 
just my opinion.

sorry for the rant. i pick haligen.


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## kc2006 (Oct 16, 2005)

I recall this one local plow company, I really liked their set ups. They had rotators on the roof (small 2 beacon rotator), strobe hideaways, and I think some LEDs in their grille and on their spreaders. It was a good mix I thought. For some reason I can still remember seeing them at a local parking lot, they caught my eye and really stood out.

I personally want to go with hideaways and maybe a twin rotator for the roof. I know rotators are old school, but they're the best for in the day I think.


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## Diesel Sniffer (Sep 21, 2007)

I pick halogen. Might be old school, but for several reasons I think they are the best for snow removal applications. 

Strobes are nice, but not very visible during the day. At night stobes reflect off falling snow and make you feel like you're about to have a seizure after about 10 minutes of running them.

LED's are awesome, but not in the snow. For some strange reason they don't have the "punch" to go thru heavy snow at distances. Plus, they collect snow easily and won't melt it away because they don't throw of ANY heat. Let's face it, if we're out the weather is usually crappy. If I have to stop my truck and scrape off a lightbar, that light is useless to me. I don't make money scraping lights. 

For those reasons I like halogen the best. Bright in the day, non-reflective against the snow at night. It doesn't hurt that they are cheap to purchase, cheap to repair and cheap to replace if something happens compared to the others. There's my $0.02


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

LEDs are becoming the king of all lights. I like them because they draw very low power. And thats a big thing for a plow truck. I like to save every amp I can. They are also more reliable as you dont have to do any maintnace. 

Strobes, Very bright at night. Not bad during the day either if you have decent strobes. Some people say they get headaches. They also draw considerable amps. 

Halogens, Great at night and during the day. I miss my highlighters. Amps are up there but produce heat to keep snow off. 

I like to use a comination of rotators and LEDs. On one of my trucks I use hideaways with a mini LED bar.


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## Eclipse (Dec 9, 2004)

I agree with both ultimate and diesels comments.

A two rotator halogen lightbar is a great around light and cost effective.
I do not understand why so many guys love hide-a-way strobes for plow trucks.
LED's are nice, bright, and low profile (if we are talking about lightbars) but they are costly and do have there limitations as already mentioned.

If the truck is a work truck a two rotator, halogen, mini lightbar is all it would needs IMO. I have an LED lightbar since my truck is both a work/personal truck. I am not a fan of strobes for plowing.


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## flashinglight (Nov 19, 2007)

Corner strobes in the tail lights are great warning. Especially if the driveway is a blind one until your almost in the road. I have talked to a few police officers in the area about them. They think that they are a great warning system. I, myself, run rear corner strobes but none in the front. I just can't see the need for them in the front. They look great, don't get me wrong. I would have to agree about the halogen rotators for anytime of the day use. I have noticed some of the led light bars don't have good 360* warning. My opinion of the new whelen responder LP is it has poor lighting at the corners, it just lacks that bright in your face punch. I run with a couple fire depts and have led grill lights which moves traffic. I guess it depends on what application your using your lights for.


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## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

I am a firefighter also and am sort of a buff especially with lighting, LED"'s are the way to go if you want super bright concentrated light but I still think a good rotator on the roof works the best for plowing. You need 360 degree visablility... My Whelen talons I have on my dash for firefighting are so bright and fast that when it snows the reflection can get you a little nuts... You wont have that with a rotator. When I plow I use a magentic mounted old school firebeam amber rotater that is really bright and does the job. The grille lights and dash LED lights are great for moving traffic in front of you out of the way but when plowing you want the versatility of a good roof mounted rotator... 

my 2 cents...


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## Eclipse (Dec 9, 2004)

flashinglight;442199 said:


> My opinion of the new whelen responder LP is it has poor lighting at the corners, it just lacks that bright in your face punch.


I would agree with this about the CON3 model but the Linear model has no issues with off axis visability.


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## Bens95cobra8594 (Nov 30, 2007)

I have a Whelan 4 strobe setup in the truck, powered off the second battery. There is no mistaking the truck in day, bright sun, night, dusk or any other time. 

It wakes up the neighbors and scares little old ladies... just the way a plow truck should be. 

I love the idea of LEDs, but the reliability of quick flashes and really intense light emission just isn't there yet. Halogen (correct spelling) lights are great, and really bright, but for my $$... I'm doing strobes.

I've done it in 3 trucks and they are all still working and never had an accident or any problems. The little beacons on the top of the trucks just don't put out enough light to function to my satisfaction.


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## YardMedic (Nov 29, 2006)

Pirsch;441816 said:


> Haligan mini bars


So I saw the title of this thread and chuckled about "Haligan" wanting to post asking if this was a firefighter thread --- come to find out, it was!


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## deckboys (Dec 1, 2006)

i've got 2 ) single, simple halogen magnetic mount rotators.... nothing too extreme and very cheap... both lights cost 100 bucks total... but the ligjts can be see 3 blocks away
i am looking to add 2 strobes to the salter some time......but not in a big hurry to do so


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## Pirsch (Jun 1, 2007)

YardMedic;442464 said:


> So I saw the title of this thread and chuckled about "Haligan" wanting to post asking if this was a firefighter thread --- come to find out, it was!


Of course...Retired IAFF 2951! LOL :yow!:

I've always liked the strobe affect in a heavy fog. Didn't really get a chance to find out about the LED's how they do in heavy fog but I have a feeling it's not that bad but visible???? No Piercing power!


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## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

I love my Whelen gardian mini rotator bar. It is definatly bright enough day or night and no flash back.

Cheers


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## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

YardMedic;442464 said:


> So I saw the title of this thread and chuckled about "Haligan" wanting to post asking if this was a firefighter thread --- come to find out, it was!


That is so funny cause I thought the exact same thing...

For all you non-firefighters a Halligan is the most versatile and main tool that a fireman uses at calls... Its like a police officers handcuffs... It is a steel tool about 2.5 feet long with a fork end on one side and an ads end with a pike on the other... It can be used for forcible entry, prying, hammering, mechanical advantages, etc... It is normally paired with a flat head axe... Just in case you were wondering...

Remember - A firefighter without a tool is just another bystander...


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## iakentdoz (Dec 20, 2005)

flashinglight;442199 said:


> I have noticed some of the led light bars don't have good 360* warning. My opinion of the new whelen responder LP is it has poor lighting at the corners, it just lacks that bright in your face punch.





Eclipse;442368 said:


> I would agree with this about the CON3 model but the Linear model has no issues with off axis visability.


Linear (LIN) is much better than the CON3, The CON3 is some what like the TIR3's and from now on all I will be installing will be the LIN3's and LIN6's from Whelen. TIR3's have there place, I love mine under my tailgate. Great for traffic behind me. All my LED's on the back rack will be LIN6's and a LIN Responder LP light bar. I sold my old Whelen Edge strobe light bar, the flash back off the strobes was just to much and washed out much more than the LED's


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## YardMedic (Nov 29, 2006)

jjklongisland;442613 said:


> For all you non-firefighters a Halligan is the most versatile and main tool that a fireman uses at calls... Its like a police officers handcuffs...


Actually, wouldn't we say it's more like the gun for an officer?!? To draw the similarity, both get us in or out of tricky places!!

~Kevin


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## Pirsch (Jun 1, 2007)

YardMedic;443074 said:


> Actually, wouldn't we say it's more like the gun for an officer?!? To draw the similarity, both get us in or out of tricky places!!
> 
> ~Kevin


You guys both forgot... The Haligan is more of a battering ram... All 30+ pounds of it... Our Gun is the Nozzel and the Ammo is the Water!

You ever notice the cops are calling FD's for more and more lately... Using our thermal imagers for their pd work. Go figure I guess they're going to be carrying turnout gear next!


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

I agree some strobes get lost in the sun. But I've seen some very bright strobes that didnt. IMO haligens are the best way to go but in the winter some tend to freeze up where as strobes are good in any weather, and as far as led's...the ones I've seen just aren't very bright and you have to be looking at then just right in order for them to be effective.


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## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

YardMedic;443074 said:


> Actually, wouldn't we say it's more like the gun for an officer?!? To draw the similarity, both get us in or out of tricky places!!
> 
> ~Kevin


I was going to put "gun", then I changed it to handcuffs because a police officer from my understanding doesnt like to pull out his weapon unless there is a serious threat... You dont some P.O.'s taking out there gun at every scene even when arrests need to be made... But firefighters always carry there tools whether the call is b.s. or not... I dont know, maybe it was a poor analogy... anyway, its an important tool and I totally agree it getting us out of sticky situations...

On another note, first snow on Long Island with very slick roads... We had 2 MVA's (motor vehicle accidents) at the same time either end of the district earlier... Drive safe...
By the way, both mva's, non-experienced young kids driving...


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## Pirsch (Jun 1, 2007)

Fire Fighters aren't cops... If Fire Fighters carried guns we'd be kill'n every dumb a$$ we'd come across! LOL That's why I made the comparison of the nossel/hose insead of the gun/bullets! 

Anyhow, Local PD in my neighborhood.. Had a really good combination that they went to... LED's Strobes and Halogens in the top of half of the lightbar and Halogen Takedown/Intersection lights, LED Flashers but Quantum Strobes for the hide a ways in the headlights/tail lights and Tir3's in the back window. Man that car was like going to a disco party with seizure patients!


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## Omaha Plowboy (Feb 11, 2007)

4 rotators in my lightbar. Believe me, I am seen at night !!!! Daylight I'm not as worried about it, I can see everybody, but at night, I was almost hit a few times because idjets came hauling arse around blind corners. Don't see that during day light hours for some odd reason, LOL. At night my rotators light up the area and the arse haulin' idjets think there's a cop around the corner and cool their jets.


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## HAZMAT (Nov 8, 2007)

I’ll give my opinion on the subject, on a local paid on call fire department. Halogen lights are bright both day and night, with snow they work pretty well. For my POV (Personal owned vehicle) I have a full size halogen bar. Downsides of halogen are the noise the rotators produce; high amperage draws on your charging system, bigger domes/lenses then any other which means more maintenance (Cleaning the plastic domes). Strobes sometimes aren’t very effective during daylight. At night time with a good pattern they work good. Depends on the individual but sometimes it bothers the eyes. Replacing strobe tubes isn’t cheap and depending on the light sometimes you strobe isn’t self contained which means you have to have more equipment in your vehicle. LED’s are rather new in the emergency vehicle lighting area but there making progress. LED’s draw next to nothing as far as Amps go and it really depends on how much you spend as to how bright it is. LED’s will probably be picked first in the future, but for right now I’ll stick to halogen due to the price of LED's and effectiveness.

- Kevin


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## Pirsch (Jun 1, 2007)

Well one good thing about the noise from the rotators... You can always tell when/if they're working! (well atleast the rotator!)


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## HAZMAT (Nov 8, 2007)

Pirsch;448392 said:


> Well one good thing about the noise from the rotators... You can always tell when/if they're working! (well atleast the rotator!)


True!

- Kevin


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

brib, I thought you bought a cheap rotator and threw it behind your seat? Now you say you wouldn't ever? Which one is it man?

Scary thought once again, though, I agree with the amount of lights that a lot of guys have. There have been several studies done on the effectiveness of lights, flash patterns, quantity of lights, etc. It has been proven that a flash pattern that has an equal amount of time on as off is the most visible and least distracting. More flashes tends to draw people to the lights and cause more accidents because they don't pay attention. So you're right, less is better. 

Strobes draw less than halogens, but tend to not have good depth 'perception', meaning they disappear when they're off and you can't judge how far away the vehicle using them is. 

LED's are great and keep getting better, the newest ones will outshine either halogens or strobes in any weather condition.

For cost effectiveness, you can't beat a twin rotator mini-bar. 

I have all of the above on different vehicles, no hideaways though.

And I'll have to disagree on the favorite tool (whatever he stated). I'll grab a pick head axe long before a Halligan. 

And I hate to say it Omaha, the Jetstreams have about the lowest amount of light output of any of the old lightbars, except the Streethawks, which were absolute garbage.


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## Pirsch (Jun 1, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;448734 said:


> I'll have to disagree on the favorite tool (whatever he stated). I'll grab a pick head axe long before a Halligan.
> 
> Jetstreams have about the lowest amount of light output of any of the old lightbars, except the Streethawks, which were absolute garbage.


I'll Agree with the Pick-Head... I hated when they stuck a flathead and a Halligan together and our idiot Chief wrote a directive that someone must carry the darn thing! That and a TNT Tool! What a piece of crap unless your Mr. Muscles!

Ok here's a couple old bars that might bring back memories for non-visibility.. Yankee and Thunderbolts! Those were horrible!!!

How about those lights that Michigan State Police still use... Like a Federal 184 but have those little clear lines going across the lense!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Pirsch;448756 said:


> How about those lights that Michigan State Police still use... Like a Federal 184 but have those little clear lines going across the lense!


Funny thing is, those things are visible for miles, literally.

PS To answer the question, the Haligan will blow away strobes and LED's, no doubt about that. One swing and they're done for.


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## Pirsch (Jun 1, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;448765 said:


> Funny thing is, those things are visible for miles, literally.
> 
> PS To answer the question, the Haligan will blow away strobes and LED's, no doubt about that. One swing and they're done for.


Agreed... But can you imagine the AMP draw on those old lights the MSP use if they're still using the old sealed beams? wesport


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## dfdsuperduty (Dec 12, 2006)

Imo I'll Take Led's Anytime Over Strobes Or Halogin..... Also I'll Take A Sledge Mated With A Haligin Just My .02


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

WOW, The town next over has a pair of these mounted on top of the dump cab of a huge international, on a slow rotating pattern!!! Absolutly better than any strobe beacon or halogen beacon. But the price isnt so pretty.


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## Eclipse (Dec 9, 2004)

ultimate plow;450942 said:


> WOW, The town next over has a pair of these mounted on top of the dump cab of a huge international, on a slow rotating pattern!!! Absolutly better than any strobe beacon or halogen beacon. But the price isnt so pretty.


Those are pretty sick but as you said the price is unrealistic for a beacon. A Whelen Responder is not that much more so I would have a hard time dropping that much money on a beacon.


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## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

Pirsch;448756 said:


> I'll Agree with the Pick-Head... I hated when they stuck a flathead and a Halligan together and our idiot Chief wrote a directive that someone must carry the darn thing! That and a TNT Tool! What a piece of crap unless your Mr. Muscles!


Well most of the time when we enter a fire building the "irons" man forces entry to the door and then normally chocks the door with the axe and just carries around the haligan for his primary search... The main reason we carry the axe is for a hammering tool to get the haligan to force the door... After that unless you are breaching a wall its does become a pain to do a realistic search with the tools mated...

With regards to a haligan and sledge, it must be even heavier and more cumbersumb to carry, haw do you marry them up... Must have a strap or something...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hijack, the reason the pick head is my favorite is most of our fires--when we have any--are in residentials and usually the only forcible entry needed is a couple kicks from a size 12--mine. 

Only used a halligan once on a commercial fire, other than that just opening hoods at car fires. 

So 99% of the time a pick head or 3' D-handle pike are my first choice.


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## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

That makes sense... Whatever works best for the situations that come up the most... I must say on numerous occasions when doing work at home and what not I have said, damn I wish I had a haligan right now (to make certain jobs easier) especially demo... You would be surprised how much faster it is to gut the inside of a house with a haligan versus a hammer and claw... You can beat leverage...


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## Pirsch (Jun 1, 2007)

The best thing that I ever used a haligan for is to open a wall. Swing that thing like a golfclub and it opens the wall real perrty! Well doing search/rescue I always liked carry'n a closet hook... Let one of the bigger boys carry the heavy stuff. My last years were on the pump...to many ceilings and stuff fell on me so I figured to let the young'ns pay their dues like I did.

For the guys that don't know what type of tools we've been talking about here's some pictures.

1) Halligan Tool
2) Halligan/Flathead Axe Married
3) Denver/TNT tool. Axe/sledge/pike combined.


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## Pirsch (Jun 1, 2007)

Bump.....................


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