# snow management



## dave korp (Sep 3, 2004)

anybody do work for smg am getting run around for accts past due i know it is late but felt they were up front now have heard some disturbing trends


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## AintNoFun (Nov 26, 2003)

i'll pm you about our experiences with them.......


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

repairs to the site that need to be made (BS), cash flow problems, I've heard it all. Now this guy Bob Cohen is supposed to be working with them. The latest I heard is that we're getting paid by the end of this month. I'll hold my breath...


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## Foz (Mar 27, 2001)

Snow Management Group??


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## ikold (Feb 8, 2004)

*SMG - Good luck getting paid*

They have owed us more than 20,000 since Feb and we have yet to see a dime. They have sent sevral letters over the last 7 months each one saying "don't worry we will pay you soon". Than they hire a "turn around" specialist to handle the repayment. 
The moves they are making don't instill allot of confidence in their ability or desire to repay. We are not a big business and 20,000 is allot to us.


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## gslam88 (Feb 19, 2002)

guys, 

Although I don't know it to be true I hear that SMG might be filling a chapter 11 sometime

from another post on an alternate site this is what I hear

Yes...I believe it is the same John Allin. I think he's also affiliated with SIMA. 
I can only assume that his company, Snow Management Group, is headed for bankruptcy because when my staff attempts to contact their accounting people...they are being referred to a salvage lawyer. It looks like this "salvage" company is trying to keep us bill collectors at bay until they can find a way to either come up with the cash or file for bankruptcy. 
You mentioned hiring an attorney. I tried to be patient but we finally decided to break down and pay a good attorney a HEFTY retainer to go after Snow Management Group. 
I hope that they intend on paying all of their bills...but at this point it appears that the best we can do is get a judgment and wait for them to liquidate their assets. 
The thing that really makes me angry is that John Allin continues to go around the country and charge people to listen to his seminars and business strategies. 

Anyway....I'll keep you guys posted. "

I have hear similar stories from different sources about this issue... if it was just 1 or 2 sources then it could be just unhappy contractors or subs.. but I have hear from a good number of different sources from different parts of the country


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## AintNoFun (Nov 26, 2003)

def. keep us posted.... i wonder why john allin hasn't posted?


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## jax1013 (Dec 28, 2002)

*re; CVS thru SMG*

Friends,
Spoke w/ SMG today they are looking for a quote for a cvs about 15 min from my house...i had 6 of their stores in 2003 and got paid very well...although it took a good 45-60 days...2004 lost out to a low bidder...(shocker)..seeing the last couple of posts should i even bother.. i dont want to service if i'm not going to get the check...what to you think.. if they are as bad as people say we should all stick together and let them sit knee deep in the "white gold"...Thanks for your opinon...
Jack


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## XPECTATIONS (Oct 15, 2003)

*Smg*

Sorry I posted twice! Do not know what I did?


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## XPECTATIONS (Oct 15, 2003)

*Smg*

We have been dealing with SMG for 4 YRS. I have nothing but great things to say! The problem some of you might be having is the contracts, They are long and detailed! They follow them to the letter! If you do not "check in" with in the alloted time, You will not get paid! No INSURANCE No Pay

In there RFP It is stated If you cannot live up to "There Conditions" DO NOT BID THE WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. SMG has never written me a check!!! They come from the contract holder! SMG is the management company, They only audit and then forward the invoice!


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## North Country (Nov 14, 2003)

Some checks do come from SMG and some from the client, it depends if they are managing the account and you are the service provider or SMG holds the contract to service the account and you are a sub for them. - michael


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## Foz (Mar 27, 2001)

Glad to hear some good on this thread, after having met John, I find it hard to believe that he is in trouble. Although we haven't worked with him, I would tend to believe that there are some unresolved contract issues if there are people not getting paid.

We have worked for & still work for several customers that we were warned not to because of nonpayment. The real secret is many large "boxes" like Toys R Us, Lowe's, Dentco, etc. and I assume SMG are adament about the paperwork and if is not completed you will NOT get paid.

If you can't make the commitment to complete your necessary paperwork then you shouldn't get paid. We require paperwork from our subs as well, no paper, no check it's that easy.


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Foz, you make a good point with regard to having the necessary paperwork and insurance. However, we have done everything as per the contract and as they requested. Still, no payment. As far as I'm concerned, they were in breach of contract when they were very late with our first payment.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

then why did you keep plowing for them. if it was another account with bus or resident would you have if not why did you.


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## PRODUCTIVE P. M (Oct 3, 2004)

*Nothing But A Plessure.*

I HAVE WORKED FOR S. M. G. 5 YEARS NOW, AND HAVE HAD NOTHING BUT GREAT DEALINGS WITH THEM. IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PAID YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG.


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

PSDF350 - We kept going as a good faith effort to uphold our end of the contract. 

Productive PM - glad to hear you've had a good experience with them, but I assure you, we did nothing wrong. And I know for a fact that the other contractors we worked with through SMG did nothing wrong either. One contractor we worked with is owed $53,000.00 and another is owed $250,000.00

We all did what we were contracted to do. I am a professional and I run my business in a professional manner.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

i still say why if they weren't holding up to there end of the contract why stay? if it was a regular customer would you have kept plowing?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Speaking for myself, I would continue to plow for someone for a period of time if they were late paying. It would depend on my 'feeling' on how long a period that would be.

A few years ago, one of our largest accounts sold to another property management company in Dec\Jan. There was a disagreement between them on who was going to pay for the Dec billing. We were caught in the middle of a customer who always paid on time and one we had no history with. I didn't care who was paying, I just wanted my money. Within about 6 weeks it was worked out, we had our money and last October\November this company spent about $20K with us for landscaping upgrades. 

What would have happened if we just shut off service? I'm not sure, just glad we didn't.

There is also a difference between late pay and slow pay and also between slow pay and someone trying to screw you out of your money. We have several customers that despite our contracts requiring payment in 30 days, pay in approx 40-45 days. I do not send them a late charge every time because they are very regular but technically late.

Productive, I think that is a very generalized statement that you made. We worked 'for' SMG last year and also had good dealings with them. BUT, we were paid directly by the customer not SMG. We were paid 'late' by SMG's contract standards the first time as well, so did we do something wrong?

I would also say that it is slightly ignorant to say that just because someone did not get paid, they did something wrong. We also work for Worldcom\MCI. When they went bankrupt and we did not get paid, did we do something wrong? No, we didn't get paid because there was mismanagement at the corporate level, not because we didn't perform our work according to the contract.


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*S M G*

All I have to say to everyone is that SMG, even though they have hit the skids so to speak, I haven't seen anyone of you other contractors even make an attempt to preform work on the scale that John Allin has. All large companies that grow too FAST suffer growing pains. I've plowed for over 25 years, I worked for other large contractors in the North East, I will follow John Allin and work for him, his ideas and philosphies work, he just needs to get the systems in place, I can see SMG rising out the ASHES and enveloping everyone of your naysayers.


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*Centralized bill paying*

All this working for one snow management company thing is about one thing, making bill paying more efficient for the client. I feel this works for purchasing of materials. I also feel this won't work for services. When you are 3rd in line to get money it stands a real good chance of getting lost. To see in Plow-site.com where many got stiffed for large amounts of money, well this puts up a red flag for working for a "management group". They should change name to "mismanagement group".

I think one company supplying toilet paper to a large company will work and the company can get a discount without a loss in quality how ever in the snow removal and salting service area, everyone stands a real good chance to lose. How can you manage snow removal in Akron Ohio from Erie PA? Someone is going to lose.


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## ROSELAWN (Sep 12, 2003)

I have worked for "widespread" management companies and you may as well go play roulette at the casino as far as them paying you. In my experience they might pay or they might not, may depend on interest rates or maybe the stock market. They float large sums of money, playing loan rates against what they can make you wait for, Just decide if your time and effort is worth the hassle. Not trying to shy you away, I, from now on do business with people I meet FACE TO FACE.


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*S M G*

Again I personally do not think you understand how a nationwide company operates. SMG has regional Field Manager in every state that they have clients in, (well almost all). These FM's are responsible for meeting all contractors, evaluating their experience and signing them up to work for SMG. They are the first line of contact for the contractor to SMG. A real person FACE to FACE. These FM's are out in every storm trying to make to all sites to help and work with these contractors.
I'm trying to answer 2 posts at once so bear with me please
As for paying.. alot comes from seasonal contracts that pay on a monthly basis getting the right amount (percentage) to offset payouts until "per event or per push" payment start to roll in. 
I know personally SMG went thru some tough times, John Allin could have pulled up stakes and run back in June or so, but he didn't. The man is a true professional and beleives in his process and systems. Those that hang with John Allin will be the true winnners here, he willrise to the top again and SMG will be back as a very promient company in the snow business.
And before you ask, NO, I do not work for SMG or wouldI be considered a friend of John Allin's, but I been to his seminars ansd watched this comapny grow, it has faltered up as they say " This sleeping Giant will awaken and when it does .....well I just going to be there


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

who you trying to convince. becuase i have seen were many haven't got paid. just becuase you are one of the lucky ones doesn't make smg a wonder company. jmo


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*Again X3*

Not saying SMG is a wonder company, I'm just trying to look at the whole picture. Put yourself in John Allin's place, great idea move nationwide in snow plowing, sign up major companies and contractors...Grow super fast..... oops...high a bump in the road... issues... so on .
Just trying to get some of you small guys to think global, some may haven't gotten paid, but has SMG folded, NO.. still working and making efforts to get these guys paid.
Question for you? You in your business have a client or 2 that do not pay. What would you do if you owed an excessive amount of money? File bankruptcy.. Chapter 7...Chapter 11.. all very good, legal and moral decisions. 
Did't happen at SMG... Go plow your snow make your money, but DO NOT condem a person till you walk in their shoes.
And comment about being on of those paid, I do not work for SMG only an outside independent observer who also does snow and wishes I had this idea first and the BALLS to try it


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

the problm is they (SMG) were paid by there customeers, then he didn't pay his contractors. considering what he owes some of these guys. so he isn't as great a business man as you say he is. if he was he wouldn't have bit off more than he could chew. again jmo. if he hasn't paid these guys yet whats he waiting for, more money from this years contracts to pay last years people? then what happens to this years people.


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*AGAIN x4*

First let's look at some new info that just came to light.
a> you have NO experience in the snow business
b> You have NO experience in the snow business
So. let's continue..
You stated JA got paid on all his accounts, where did you get this information?
You stated that he bit off more than he could chew? Are we speaking from first hand experience in the snow business about how much is too much? Oh wait you have no experience in the snow business so how would you know how much is too much.
So, when you logged about 3500 hours and pushed more snow than you thought could fall, then come see me and we can talk business


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

you think becuase i haven't dropped a plow in 20 years that means i dont know anything. lets see when you get commercal accounts do you get paid a certain amount up front or do you wait till end of year to bill. do you bill monthly if so how many months need to go by before you stop servicing. i'm not saying they got all money owed. but i'll bet john allen got his paycheck. i may not know the snow business but you pay your guys before you get paid its that simple. by the way why dont you quit trying to defend SMG unless of course you have something personal at stake. just for the record i have never claimed to be more than i am can you say the same. you also never said were is he going to get money to pay what he owes or does that not matter to you.


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## XPECTATIONS (Oct 15, 2003)

*Holly *****

This is getting old! 
I am VERY sorry that SMG has not paid some of you, But i am fairly certain that all of this negative chatter will not get anyone paid any faster! 
The mindset of not receiving your due is very real, Over the years, we all have outstanding balances! JA has the largest snow company's in the world, and i personally believe he will pay! 
I do work for SMG, and I do have Yrs. of experience, and I do have an interest!!!!! I can only pray *(like I do for snow)* that you will be paid!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I know it's easier to be negative than positive, but this is starting to strike me as all the consolidations that were going on in the 90's. This is when a lot of huge companies were trying to increase their bottom line by buying every company they could. These companies, not all but many, lost there focus and started divesting (sp?) of the companies because they lost their focus. They made a big splash and then everything started falling apart because they were operating business that they didn't understand. It was a fad. 

I see this happening the same way. There will be some nationwide comapnies, just like in landscaping, but they will not be able to provide the personalized, regionalized service (read pricing) that is needed. 

Case in point. A large multi-state bank that we work for hired a management company that started last winter. This company has been around for a long time (apparently) but only in southern OH. They don't have a clue when it comes around to handling 4,500 branches. They didn't even have all the branches listed on the RFP. When I asked, they said well I'm sure we missed a few out 4,500 locations. Huh? This is your job right? They awarded us branches that I didn't even bid. They didn't notify us of 4 additional branches until a month after they awarded the initial bids and yes the grass was very long. So now winter is coming. They request bids, I send our's in, a day later I get a call from Symbiot. They want pricing guidelines for the same branches that they are working on for the same company I just sent the bid in to. I didn't hear anything for a week or so, I call them up, they tell me we are subbing the snow removal out to another management company, they will be in contact with you. BTW, this RFP still did not have all the locations in it.

This is absolutely ridiculous. These companies are adding so many layers into the process, they'll never end up saving the customers' money.

Anyways, jmo. I realize there are going to be problems with service\non-payment, etc., but does anybody have all good to say about any of these companies, SMG, US Maintenance, Dentco, etc. So far in my view, unless you are getting paid directly by the customer, you will be waiting for YOUR money or not getting YOUR money.


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*Smg*

Heard thru the grapevine HELP has arrived at SMG headquaters in the form of a strategic partner with deep deep pockets. Stay tuned


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

if they are such a great company and he is such a great businessmen why does he need someone with deep pockets. no dig just curious


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## Taconic (May 18, 2001)

*symbiot*

Did Symbiot bail out John Allen i heard they were the deep pockets.Just curious if they saved him or did they let him implode?


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

No news on Symbiot's website, and they seem to let you know even when their employees have a BM.

Here's the latest...I rec'd a second letter from Centrus Group, Inc, Business Planning and Turnaround Management, signed Robert L. Cohen, Advisor to Allin Companies and SMG, dated 10/2/04.

Basically, it states that SMG has 3 options for action. The first action - Acquisition...SMG is anticipating a letter of intent for purchase of its assets. The purchase price may be adequate to compensate vendors for a significant portion of their outstanding claims, and potentially compensate creditors over a period of time.

Action 2 - Profit payout - here they will try to solicit support of the SMG's creditors to accept a payout of debt based on the profit performance of the company over a period of time.

Action 3 - Equity for Debt - some vendors/creditors have, according to the letter, have expressed interest in accepting stock in Allin Companies or SMG in exchange for their outstanding claims.

This is just a summary of the letter, as there is more rhetoric, but it gives you the essentials.


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## ikold (Feb 8, 2004)

*Snow Management group is going down.*

I too received that letter. 
basically the letter says, all who are owed are screwed. John Allin coulnd't manage his business properly and those who worked for him are the ones who are going to have to pay for his mistakes. What I don't understand is how he can continue to travel around giving seminars on snow management when he can't manage his own business?


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*area management*

Just think of the whole idea. One company *managing * all the snow removal and salting for a country wide company. To properly manage snow removal and salting when you are not able to be there where the work is done can not work. When there is a problem you can not properly address that problem from 1000 miles away. If you structure a management team to take care of your business it is so top heavy a large company would be foolish to pay that much. Then add the problem of mismanagement to the mix... then you have a real problem.

If you are selling a product you gain purchasing power by buying from one source but to try and purchase a service using the same ideas has not been able to work. Someone always gets screwed. Dad said stuff rolls down hill. We are the service provider so we are at bottom of hill.

Dave


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## AintNoFun (Nov 26, 2003)

ikold said:


> I too received that letter.
> basically the letter says, all who are owed are screwed. John Allin coulnd't manage his business properly and those who worked for him are the ones who are going to have to pay for his mistakes. What I don't understand is how he can continue to travel around giving seminars on snow management when he can't manage his own business?


wheres all the SMG fans at now?


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*Where Are They??*

Probably watching the RED SOX kick the crap out of the Yankees


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I have to ask. 

Nocando, you will back SMG to the end, it sounds like, but when somebody else, Superior Management Group, tries to do the same thing, you slam them and call them wannabes. Can you explain this? If it's great for one company to do it, why isn't it good for more? 

Competition is a great thing, it makes everyone better.


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*Wannabees*

Let me explain Mark:
If you check out Superior Management Group's website you'll see that they copied the SMG SP question aire verbatium (<sp). Even going a far as leaving in the SMG Erie address and phone number. They are located in New Jersey right? They list companies that they DO NOT have contracts with, they even listed a company that I have plowed for over 25 years, I called my client and askedthem when I had been replaced. They told me they never heard of this company. Look at their name dupilcates SMG's initials. Like they say "if it smeels like a fish and it swims, it must be a fish, but if it swims like a fish but smells like crap it not. Superior Management Group is a wanna bee


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I see. Maybe they have a satellite office. lol

I am wondering what will happen to those contracts that SMG administers but the customer pays the invoice. 

Somebody from SMG really ought to make an official announcement rather than letting all these rumors fly. I would think that the customers are hearing these rumors as well.


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## dubster23 (Aug 31, 2004)

In response to the question about the contracts that are paid by the customer not SMG. I was told directly from a source that was with the company that the plowers who service these type of clients have absolutely nothing to worry about because they pay us directly. On the flip side they(SMG) are responsible for paperwork issues which must be completed in order for plowers to get paid. So as far as I know they are trying very hard to straighten this out within the company so we'll have to see for ourselves as the snow flies.


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## Taconic (May 18, 2001)

*gone bust*

I heard on Saturday that Snow Management group filed chapter 11 and went bankrupt.Any truth to this?


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*Really*

John that is just wishful thinking on your part :confused :


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## InstantRefill (Oct 27, 2004)

*What is really going on at SMG*

Likely to see an announcement next week on the progress of SMG in their negotiations with the potential purchaser. Negotiations are going very well, and there is a great deal of optimism about the outcome. If acquisition is completed, there should be immediate payments to those that are owed money.

No bankruptcy has been filed!


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## 66Construction (Jan 26, 2001)

I find it amazing how many of you posted on here about this and really know very little about what is going on or how SMG does business. Listen to what the guys have to say that have been working for smg for a few years. You need to understand the process to even try to comprehend it. Bashing SMG isn't going to help get anyone paid, if anything it's going to hurt us. I'm owed quite a bit, more then anyone that posted I believe...not as much as the quater mill guy but I know another contractor who is close to that. He's storing equipment for them right now, I have some of their equipment in my shop...we're not holding it ransom we're working with them. John Allin is a business man who had a rough patch and needs a hand, I've ben in the same place, grew too fast, got over extended, took some time to pay some people but they all worked with me and they all got what they deserved. If anyone on here was spreading anyting but rumors you'd know they have a letter fo intent from Symbiot, which is old news. I just looked at a new acount for smg, direct for them they hold the contract and I told them as soon as I get paid I'll get another loader to suit the site and it'll be a done deal. Their field manager who's name I wont mention said no problem everything looks good, you should have your money before the snow flies. 

Another thing....Symbiot owning part of SMG is good business for them and makes sence, they plow snow also, but everyone knows Mr Allin knows snow removal like no one else does, the man started SIMA, was a moderator on here, and is the biggest in the country. SMG needs some accounting help, it makes sence to me, I'd spend money on sometig that made sence, so it makes sence that this deal will work.

This is just what I know and my opinion, you guys can chew up what I said like 3 year olds in pre-school and go on cutting your own throats, but I know for a fact there's a lot of guys standing Behind John Allin even though they are owed money. Why not support them and everyone will make money together, it's not like the guy set out to screw everybody, his intentions are to make himself money and also you and I.
Casey


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Casey, did you have a big change of heart? You're post is not consistant with the PM you sent me on 4/2/04...


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Casey?????


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## 66Construction (Jan 26, 2001)

Change of heart, not really, less agarvated at this point yes. You asked my opinion on something and in private I told you my situation, I didn't wine and moan in public.

I've spoken with a lot of different people from SMG over the summer and it seems like they really are trying to get their act together. I wont lie I had a horrible year and it's a direct result of their non payment but thats business... stuff happens, you have to do what you have to do to get by, atleast I wont owe the irs anything this year. At the same time I'm willing to give smg a second chance, but should things go like last year, I'll turn my back and walk away forever no two ways about it. I don't think that will happen, they can't allow it to happen because everyone that stays with them pretty much would turn and run. IN the past the money has been there. Last year was a major screw up on SMG's behalf. They're fixing it and hopefully all will go well, I just don't understand why anyone would want to wish bad things on them, I want my money and that can only happen if they stay in business and I would like to continue to keep making money with them plain and simple. 
Casey


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Casey, I'm glad to hear you're less aggravated. If you're suggesting that I was/am whining and moaning in public, I guess that's your opinion. However, I was simply, albeit emotionally, describing the situation as it happened to me. It was in the interest of informing others so as that they do not end up in similar situations, or at least they will have a heads up as to what's in store.

When a company agrees to a contract, then weeks later reneg on the contract, after you have already begun working according to the contract, and when a company blatently lies to you, how do you take it? When they tell you the checks were cut and went out, when no such thing had happened, and you're waiting for the money, because you've paid your guys, your fuel, your materials, etc. how do you feel? Don't lie to me for weeks, and then all of a sudden tell me that, oh no, those checks were not cut and we don't know when they'll be cut. That's BS.

Good luck Casey, I hope it works out for you.


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*John Banks Who?*

Mr. banks;
Are you that major contractor in Conn, the one with the 2 beatup Chevy's, no spreaders and you have an M.B.A. Who's the business man now


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## InstantRefill (Oct 27, 2004)

*Update on Payments to Service Providers*

Just as an update, there was a meeting with ten of the largest sub contractors for SMG last week, and they are supporting the payment plan as presented presented. Assuming the sale of SMG goes through, payments should be made this month to the sub contractors.


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## gslam88 (Feb 19, 2002)

nocando, 

Your attack on John I think is misdirected... if you get a signed contract and perform you portion of the contract and the other side does not perform up to the letter, or intent of the contract what would you do? 

It irregardless of what john has or drives. 

Pete 

By the way john is a Ford and Freightliner man anyway


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Nocando, what are you talking about? Yes, I do have an MBA, which I worked very hard for and am proud of. As for 2 beat up Chevys, no that's not me. Like Pete said, Fords and Freightliners.

What's your background Nocando? And is that your motto, philosophy, what ? no can do...

As for Casey, his quote...I wont lie I had a horrible year and it's a direct result of their non payment but thats business... stuff happens, you have to do what you have to do to get by, atleast I wont owe the irs anything this year.

I am not being critical, just making an observation here. We all know the saying ...do me wrong once, shame on you...do me wrong twince, shame on me. Casey, I'm trying to understand why you are so forgiving if you had such a horrible year because of not being paid by SMG? Either you really need the work or it doesn't matter to you if you have a good year or a bad year. I agree that stuff happens, but at least be professional enough to speak the truth to your subs and don't play games. And about you not owing the IRS anything this year, to me is not a professional remark. There are plenty of ways to reduce your tax bill, but writing off what should have been shown as income is not the way I like to do it.

Like I said, I just call it how I see it.


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Nocando, let me ask you a question...what's your real name? You know who I am and most here. Who are you?

I've looked at your posts and compared them to some other things, I believe I know who you are, but let's confirm it, shall we...


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## Flipper (Nov 1, 2001)

John I think I know to. Almost all of his posts have been towards this thread. I think there is a reason why.

I have been here a looooong time and have seen a lot of people come and go. Some great others not. 

I am not impressed with Nocando.


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## 66Construction (Jan 26, 2001)

John I don't see my remark as unprofessional, I was just trying to look at the bright side of things. Eithre you run a company a lot smaller then mine or you have a lot of heart burn. The only way I stay out of the psychiatric center sometimes is trying to find a positive in a bad situation. I obviously am going to have to claim a profit this year even if SMG doesnt pay, you cant hide all the money even in a bad year.

I agree with you about being lied to last winter about the checks being cut when they werent, yeah it's an unprofessional line of BS. Have you ever had someone call you on the phone over a late loan payment or something and said oh yeah it's in the mail. It buys a little time everyones done it. 

I've made money with SMG in the past and will have last year as soon as I get paid, and I will again this year, very simple. I don't need the work, but it's a fairly simple thing though to deal with one company for all their accounts. 

My post was not directed at any one person, thats not exactly what this site is for, I was just stating my opinion and my story. 
Casey


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

66Construction said:


> I agree with you about being lied to last winter about the checks being cut when they werent, yeah it's an unprofessional line of BS. Have you ever had someone call you on the phone over a late loan payment or something and said oh yeah it's in the mail. It buys a little time everyones done it.
> 
> Casey


not everyone only liers and cheats. but maybe thats why you are so willing to deal with someone/company that operates the same way as you.


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*Yo Cowboy*

Insulting people on this site is not the way to win friends and influence people, Casey at 66 Condtruction is a very honorable and honest businessman. If he wants to stay working for SMG that is his choice, not yours logger man. Try staying in the area you have expertise and leave the snow plowing to professionals, Rookies and wannabees are what drive up insurance for Fulltime snow companies


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## gslam88 (Feb 19, 2002)

plowed said:


> Nocando, let me ask you a question...what's your real name? You know who I am and most here. Who are you?
> 
> I've looked at your posts and compared them to some other things, I believe I know who you are, but let's confirm it, shall we...


Just wondering if you will identify yourself for the folks on here?


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

i dont know who you are there nocando but i can guarenty you dont know me so dont start. this is the only thread you post on and you dont show where you are or anything about you are you afraid.


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Casey, I admire your ability to try and see the light. When someone is not upstanding with me, it takes a lot to earn my trust again, if ever. I'm not saying that I am perfect, but no, I have never claimed anything to be in the mail when it wasn't. So as far as SMG trying to buy time, they've had quite some time now.

I'm not sure who's company is larger. What I do know is that I work my a$$ off to provide for my family and the families of my employees. We have a good time, but get things done. So when someone does not hold up their end of the deal, it's quite disheartening to say the least.

Good luck in the future with SMG, I sincerely hope it works out for you. You seem to be more forgiving than most, perhaps that will be the factor that will allow you to prosper with them.


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Nocando, does this photo look familiar?


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Come on nocando, chime in...That pic goes back to December the 8th, 1999, which was a Wednesday in case you forgot...Come on, the suspense is killing me Nocando, just tell me it's you :waving:


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

who is that pic of John? as for nocando i think he's a.........


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## plowed (Nov 30, 2001)

Dave, I ask that you be patient. I have another pic of nocando, his company photo, but I want him to reveal who he is first. It's more fun this way. Although, I could be wrong and it's not who I think it is, but I doubt it. If it was anyone else, he would have told us by now.


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

o.k i'll see if i can handle the suspense.


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*Sorry*

Sorry guys it's not me!! Afraid of heights!! Won't be caught dead on a ladder


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## nocando (Apr 23, 2004)

*Truth or Dare*

John Banks you have forced me to retire, I'm not going to allow you to defame innocent people in your quest to prove just how big an idiot you can be, If you think you know who I am post it, but if your wrong do you really want to face the consequence's of your childish actions. The photo you posted is NOT me. So, i taking my identity to the grave, I hope you gentlemen and I use that term lightly, with exception to Casey at 66 construction and the others who are truely professiionals in this business please continue to use this site in the manner in was intended and to stop defaming innocent people


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

big man to afraid to tell who you are. if you notice most others here give a bit of info about themselfs but not you huh bigshot. try posting elsewhere miss professional.


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## Big Nate's Plowing (Nov 26, 2000)

nocando: shut the hell up, I am tired of all the shytt talking here!
I highly doubt your a 51 year old man picking a fight with another contractor,why not go back to the nursing home before you miss anymore medicine handouts 

the only people that drive the cost of insurance up is*  HACKS LIKE YOU* pumpkin:


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

Big Nate's Plowing said:


> nocando: shut the phuck up, I am tired of all the shytt talking here!
> I highly doubt your a 51 year old man picking a fight with another contractor,why not go back to the nursing home before you miss anymore medicine handouts
> 
> the only people that drive the cost of insurance up is*  HACKS LIKE YOU* pumpkin:


see what you did now you pi$$ed nate off.


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## snomiser (Nov 3, 2004)

*Ok Lets grow up*

I as an individual who does snow Removal Full time year round. can not believe that John Banks who appears to be a educated man would stoop to this level. John I supose that if you saw someone lying on the ground injuried, you would probley kick them.

One question, I have seen you post amounts of money that SMG Owes others but how about you John what does SMG owe you.


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## Mike Smallwood (Nov 2, 2004)

*John Banks*

Well John, I see you've gone and made a fool of yourself. You've posted a picture of me working for a friend doing Christmas Decor in 1999 and accused somebody else of being me. Well I'm here now Mr. Banks, what do you have to say for yourself. I believe an apology is in line to who ever it was you were hasseling and I beleive you owe me one also. But will the real John Banks step up and admit he made a mistake or will he run and hide
John, first time i've posted here and after reading some of this garbage I wonder how most of these people can call themselves professionals. I am a person of high integrity and I'm appalled to feel that I'm assocaited with some of these animals who have posted here recently. I wonder how your clients would react if they could read some of these posts.

MikeSmallwood
Regional Field Manager/ Northeast Region
Snow Management Group


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

nocando your an idiot if you think we dont know its you. fyi the north pole is a sheet of ice.


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## snomiser (Nov 3, 2004)

*PSDf350*

Do you think I am Nocando


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## Sean Adams (Jan 9, 2000)

This thread has gotten odd real quick, so I am going to close it. I was going to pull it completely but I feel the discussion of SMG is warranted here. 

I have exchanged emails with Mr. Allin in the past. I have nothing to say in regard to this situation other than I am sure in due time something will come to light and the situation will be resolved. I do not know anything other than this. 

However, I would recommend that if anyone is going to post on this site about anyone (whether it be SMG, Symbiot, or Joe's Snow Plowing), you make sure your information is accurate and it comes from an accurate source. Heresay and fictitious assumptions can get you in hot water real quick....and we all know how slippery hot water can get in the winter!


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