# looking for some pointers



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

This is my first year ever at this. I installed a Meyers plow on a F450, now im lost, don't know what I should do. I went out plowing the other day for the first time, ended up getting a commercial contract, didn't know what I was doing but I think I did a good job negotiating the contract and I went as far as to make the property representative sign a disclaimer. from what I read, you absolutely have to cover your ass. But anyway, Im on the hunt for jobs and I came across a company looking to sub me out for snow removal. It seem like in their contract I would be obligated to be ready to move on their jobs when it snows. Am I jumping the gun on trying to find work? Not to mention I would not get paid till 30 days after invoice. Am I gonna be able to find work when it snows, will it be effective to travel to big snowstorms to make money in dig outs??? Should I stay in my town, sub myself out, or travel around? I just paid for some internet ads and don't really know if that will pull anything in till it starts snowing. any kind of advice would help. I am also licensed, insured and incorporated so Im ready for business.


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Wow.....

I've always got plan B,C, and D in place in case of extreme circumstances before taking on any accounts.

Good Luck.....


..........


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

I hear you on that, Im trying to get a plan together. Its a per push contract paid in advance. whats a good thing to do other than taking on accounts?


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

datank450;1696427 said:


> I hear you on that, Im trying to get a plan together. Its a per push contract paid in advance. whats a good thing to do other than taking on accounts?


Make sure you have large equipment lined up for the one in five year storm.

Once you can't deliver, it's all over with.

..........


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

I gotchu bud. I wouldn't have a f450 if I didn't have the equipment to handle the job.


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

datank450;1696432 said:


> I gotchu bud. I wouldn't have a f450 if I didn't have the equipment to handle the job.


But what happens when you have 20' drifts that are packed as hard as hard as concrete and an F-450 won't budge it. I've got a C3500HD (equivalent to a 450) that wouldn't have done crap against some snow drifts we've seen.

Been there and done that, and had a sub ready on hand to get those places opened up for us with a backhoe.....

Trucks are trucks, loaders are loaders. You've got to have a worst case scenario plan in place. Once you get all these commercial accounts, that's great. But when you get the one in 5 year storm that separate the men from the boys, then that's when you'll shine as long as you have the proper equipment to handle it. Those storms make or break snow removal "proffesionals"..

And don't think you can just go rent the equipment to do it. 14 days before our blizzard a couple of years ago, all the equipment was spoken for by all the professionals that saw the storm coming 20 days in advance.

......


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

That's music to my ears, I believe a bobcat 873 and a mini excavator 334 with a 36" bucket + 1 ton dump should keep me running with the best of them. So if that's what you mean about plan B, C and D I think I got it covered.


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

I do concrete driveways, patios, sidewalks, steps, etc... Im not afraid to try to move a little bit of snow. just looking for some fundamentals on how to start making some dough.


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

White Gardens;1696437 said:


> But what happens when you have 20' drifts that are packed as hard as hard as concrete and an F-450 won't budge it. I've got a C3500HD (equivalent to a 450) that wouldn't have done crap against some snow drifts we've seen.
> 
> Been there and done that, and had a sub ready on hand to get those places opened up for us with a backhoe.....
> 
> ...


This is some good advice. As far as being a sub, you're on call pretty much all winter. If it snows, you plow and your genera will make the call as to when you go out.


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Sub out with the other company. Get your feet wet if by a year or two you feel like u understand it, go out on your own. A 450 or a 1500 don't mean anything unless you know how to use it, and you have that plan. C d and e f g in place


----------



## kranker022 (Dec 19, 2010)

I think when someone is starting out.. that subbing is not a bad idea. Still look for your own work, but in my experience when I first started was that I only got the small and medium parking lots where they only wanted snow done when it was finished. So I would sub for some one doing the accounts that would have 1 or 2 inch triggers so I had work to do while the storm is falling instead of having to get everything done once it finished. Sure getting paid in 30 days sucks, but its still better than doing nothing. Also, don't plow for anyone at an hourly rate unless its at huge complexes. I only sub for companies that have a set price for every push, and again I can hit them 2 or 3 times in a storm and then go hit all mine at night once its finished. Of course, the only bind you run into is the quick clippers that end at 4 in the morning and you gotta get everything opened up.


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

datank450;1696444 said:


> That's music to my ears, I believe a bobcat 873 and a mini excavator 334 with a 36" bucket + 1 ton dump should keep me running with the best of them. So if that's what you mean about plan B, C and D I think I got it covered.


You failed to mention the extra equipment.

Just start of small, take on smaller, more profitable accounts (per square foot) before getting into larger lots, that are more money but less per square foot.

I think the subbing idea is a great one. In my first year of business I did this for another guy until I started gaining more accounts and traction.

..........


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

Am I missing something? What the worst case scenario??? When I made the choice to get into this field I knew there could be a high possibility that I may slide over a cliff. I also get myself into the same risky situations involved with the removal of concrete. I know how to run my equipment very efficiently. As far making money, I don't know whats gonna be more affective, I don't know if it would be smart to pass on the sub work, and if I pass does anybody think it would be hard to find jobs when the storm hits? would I be stupid to think some guys may get too busy and not able to all of there jobs, is it affective to look for untouched lots and pounce on them. I don't really wanna tie myself down to a company like that but I wanna make sure I make the money back that I put out for this rig. 
As far as worst case scenarios, what kinda shenanigans can I get myself into other than the obvious? what should I worry about?


----------



## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

Seems like you have the equipment covered. More than most do to start out at least. As mentioned before, I feel like it is best to start small, like doing some sub work til you get more used to how things work. I personally would not travel, that never really works out. Id stay local and sub at first, and then make the move to your own accounts after a year or so.

And lastly, do a lot of reading on this site, but be careful. There is a TON of good advice, but yet there is also some bad advice.


----------



## kranker022 (Dec 19, 2010)

If you find the right sub work, I am pretty convinced you will make more money subbing than knocking on business doors asking if they want it done. They beauty of it too is that you can still go knock when your done subbing because most the time you will be done before businesses open up. Also, if you get with a good company that has their lots priced right, they are only keeping usually 20% or so off the plow price and making the money off of sending their sidewalk crews and salting. So you don't even have to get out of the truck and although your only getting maybe 80% of the money for the job, that 80% is probably still more money than your going to get knocking on doors and undercutting prices to get work. 

And one last thing in regards to the 30 day wait for payment... a lot of us with commercial contracts wait longer than that sometimes. You do a few storms in early December...can't bill until jan1st.. and then they take sometimes up to a month to send a check.


----------



## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

This late in the year most sites are already contracted out. You might be able to get some sub work from your town or the state plowing roads. Some pay well. At least you won"t have to worry about getting burnt for the cash. A lot of subs get burnt. You read about it every year on this site.


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

I bought the plow and V hopper this year, just got everything mounted, might I ad that I did the installation myself. Im not very mechanical but seems easy if you follw the directions, so im super happy I got the job done and its finished like a professional did the installation. But anyway, I never thought the removal of snow was that big. Should I look into using all my equipment in the removal of snow? Its seems like having the truck rigged up to push snow is not all that important as being able to clear out. If I sign as a sub I may be missing out on a big chunk of dough. would it be affective to get ahold of some guys that don't have the clear out cababilities. A buddy of mine said he made his start by going from businesses that look untouched. 5 ton of salt in the lot to start and a full tank o fuel, is this scenario unrealistic??? I can make a guarantied $65 an hour for the sub, or I can try to wing it.


----------



## kranker022 (Dec 19, 2010)

Eh... your completely missing my advice. Go wing it. Unsubscribed.


----------



## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

you cartainly could use all of the equipment, like the skid with a pusher on a lot , but you dont have to get it all work. I think Whitegardens just meant you need it to be prepared just incase you get that freak storm and cannot get the lots cleared with the truck, you need a skid or tractor to come in to remove the snow. I live in the Northeast where we get some very big storms, and I can honestly say, although I am prepared for that situation, I have NEVER needed to. You could do removal only, but you may only get one time a year that that needs to be done on the average lot. There may be some lots that need it every storm, but most of those get taken up by companies that are already prepared for that


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Jguck25;1696678 said:


> you cartainly could use all of the equipment, like the skid with a pusher on a lot , but you dont have to get it all work. I think Whitegardens just meant you need it to be prepared just incase you get that freak storm and cannot get the lots cleared with the truck, you need a skid or tractor to come in to remove the snow. I live in the Northeast where we get some very big storms, and I can honestly say, although I am prepared for that situation, I have NEVER needed to. You could do removal only, but you may only get one time a year that that needs to be done on the average lot. There may be some lots that need it every storm, but most of those get taken up by companies that are already prepared for that


Bingo....

We had our one in 10 year storm for us in 2012. 12" of snow, which isn't a lot in it itself, but is the max generally for our area. On top of it, the wind blew at 20mph making drifts, packed super tight, at 20+ feet tall.

Had a larger account with a 4 acre roof (that all blew off and packed against the building), and 5 acre lot. If, I hadn't had a sub lined up with a backhoe and Ag tractor, there was no way I would have gotten it cleared myself.

But, the only reason we took that lot was because I had a sub lined up and on call for the bigger storms.

As for knocking on doors with lots that don't look to have been plowed, it might work, but it will be rare. Your buddy might have found a good point in the market that there wasn't enough quality plow guys to go around.

I'm willing to say now that markets are saturated, most lots have secured services at the beginning of the season, and the lots you do find that aren't serviced correctly are probably horrible accounts to begin with that you really don't want.

What I would do is try to be a sub this season, then about middle of summer next year, start being a salesman and go around dropping of cards and fliers to be contacted for bidding.

That's the most *effective* way to have a positive *affective* action on your well being.....

Please, for future reference, you are asking seasoned veterans on this site for advice. Take it for what it's worth, take a little something from everyone that might help you out, and disregard the rest. And please don't be argumentative right out of the gate or you aren't going to get any advice.

Just ask birdseeded. 

........


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok. So its early in the am like 3-4. And your accounts are opening at 6am. Your trk breaks dwn what's your options? A skid with a bucket ain't gunna clear a parking lot. And then what happens to the company that your subbing for. Are they gunna give you a back up.trk? Can you fix yours? 
You got trk and plow and Salter and you think pple are just gunna come running to you? I'm assuming you have snowplow insurance correct?


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

Thanks guys for the advice, Im new at this forum stuff and still figuring out how this works. But no Im not missing any advice, just wanna make sure I have all angles covered before I dive in. Really just trying figure out how hard or easy it s to make money now that Im set up for snow and ice management/removal. And I know, I probably should have thought about getting accounts before this weather arrived but I bought a used set up and wanted to make sure everything operated properly before I started lining up work.


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok to answer. It's hard to make money your first yr or two.


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

I do work on my truck myself and keep it running strong. 04 6.0, just did HG's, ARP head bolts, egr delete, oil cooler rebuild, heavy duty up pipes, etc... keeping it running is a worry of mine but i thnk i can handle any fix that comes my way. If this truck breaks down, I guess my back up plan would be to load up the bobcat on the trailer with the dump truck and clear lots like that. Maybe I should put a rig on the dump also???? Yes I have insurance.


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Missing the issue. As well. You back onto a pole and damage your Salter beyond repair. What's your next move?


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

I don't think Im missing the point and don't think im being an ******* but I come to this forum to get advice on how to get started. as far as the sub work, they said mostly they need an extra truck. Im guessing they have enough to do salt or wouldn't need me to do salting as much as plowing. And I guess that's obviously something that I don't wanna do, backing into a pole is a sure way to put yourself outa business.


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

I really don't think its a good idea to get into this legally binding contract. It seems like ide be giving up all my right as a business owner. Non Competition for the term of the agreement plus 24 months following termination, im no right to contract or be an independent contractor, no solicitation of employeement for 6 months past the termination. Not to mention I basically waive all my rights and would have not a foot to stand on if I ever did have to take legal action. I don't know, it seems like they gave me the wrong paperwork, this here says nothing about snow removal. The contract starts with saying, "You are being contracted to perform facility maintenance services, including but not limited to general maintenance, handyman, electrical, plumbing and carpentry according to the agreed upon specifications to our customers at such locations as we direct". 
This is a company that in the warm months may bump heads with me. So unless I can get a contract strictly for snow removal, im not considering nothing. But still, 24 months of honoring none competition doesn't sound nice to me either. I think Im gonna do this the hard way. Its kinda like getting married knowing shes gonna cut your nuts off.


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

datank450;1697873 said:


> I really don't think its a good idea to get into this legally binding contract. It seems like ide be giving up all my right as a business owner. Non Competition for the term of the agreement plus 24 months following termination, im no right to contract or be an independent contractor, no solicitation of employeement for 6 months past the termination. Not to mention I basically waive all my rights and would have not a foot to stand on if I ever did have to take legal action. I don't know, it seems like they gave me the wrong paperwork, this here says nothing about snow removal. The contract starts with saying, "You are being contracted to perform facility maintenance services, including but not limited to general maintenance, handyman, electrical, plumbing and carpentry according to the agreed upon specifications to our customers at such locations as we direct".
> This is a company that in the warm months may bump heads with me. So unless I can get a contract strictly for snow removal, im not considering nothing. But still, 24 months of honoring none competition doesn't sound nice to me either. I think Im gonna do this the hard way. Its kinda like getting married knowing shes gonna cut your nuts off.


Sounds like a national contractor if you ask me.

If that's the case.... there's more and less risk to it than you think.

....


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

what exactly do you mean by that? whats the risk factors, should I bind myself in this contract. The company seems pretty local, I wont say no names but, lets just say the company is name after this city. They could vary well be a national contractor but I think its highly unlikely. Halliburton is a national contractor as there would be no mystaking them as being local. If I where to at some point, lets say do concrete work for giant eagle, and they have a snow removal contract, it seems like I would get sued for 3 times the amount of the highest amount their company could make per month. During my season I see this company working in the same neighborhoods that im working in, I could possibly be bidding on some of the same jobs. It doesn't seem like a contract that I should have anything to do with.


----------



## jbsplow (Sep 16, 2013)

White Gardens;1696437 said:


> But what happens when you have 20' drifts that are packed as hard as hard as concrete and an F-450 won't budge it. I've got a C3500HD (equivalent to a 450) that wouldn't have done crap against some snow drifts we've seen.
> 
> Been there and done that, and had a sub ready on hand to get those places opened up for us with a backhoe.....
> 
> ...


Lol if you have 20" drifts maybe you should be going out 4-5 times before the snow gets to be that high. Lol


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

jbsplow;1700098 said:


> Lol if you have 20" drifts maybe you should be going out 4-5 times before the snow gets to be that high. Lol


LOL!!! Yeah, I'm %100 with you on that one... If my truck can't handle it Ive got some back up. But yeah, you should be fired if your letting your accounts build up to 20" packed snow. That is complete neglect of paying attention to the weather, as they include snowdrifts in the forecast.


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

datank450;1700290 said:


> LOL!!! Yeah, I'm %100 with you on that one... If my truck can't handle it Ive got some back up. But yeah, you should be fired if your letting your accounts build up to 20" packed snow. That is complete neglect of paying attention to the weather, as they include snowdrifts in the forecast.


Really. Fired. Hummm. Ok. Well if you want to hear my 24" blizzard story and why I'm not fired b/c I/we didn't plow accounts then pull up a cup of coffee or beer and popcorn and ill explain


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

dieselss;1700320 said:


> Really. Fired. Hummm. Ok. Well if you want to hear my 24" blizzard story and why I'm not fired b/c I/we didn't plow accounts then pull up a cup of coffee or beer and popcorn and ill explain


Ok I'm ready, got my bear, but I don't think popcorn goes with bear or coffee. But yeah, an experienced plow should have back up and ready with subs or extra help when you watching the news and you see that blizzard coming right for you. It sounds like any experienced plow should be ready at any time, 2"-20"-30" of packed snow. I'm a concrete contractor, I know that when I sign my contract there could be very wet quick sand underneath the existing driveway or a perfectly green yard, I know that sometimes I may have to haul 2-3 to axle loads of crap soil out just to bring back just as much in gravel to cure my problem. That's also why in every contract I sign, I set it up for me to capitalize in any situation, as I do always have a back up plan. I deal with break downs and all other unexpected incidents, always ready for whatever. I have enough equipment to keep me running through a blizzard, and also the guys to go out before me with my equipment to keep me running, I also have tri axles to sub as needed. I can't wait till I get that 1 in 5 year storm so I can make some mula. I'm not afraid to move a lil snow, I move concrete. Ripping out 6"-8" reinforced concrete ain't no walk in the park, snow compared to concrete is a walk in the park, and I do like to play in the snow.


----------



## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

datank450;1698109 said:


> . It doesn't seem like a contract that I should have anything to do with.


Sounds to me like you already answered your own question.

Follow your instincts, as they generally are correct....

At least for me, anyways.


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

now just saying again summer concrete work not under the gun, and a snow storm that's at the right time and just the right amount and your under the gun is 2 different things
the blizzard of 2010, at the time I was working at another job so I wasn't at the landscaping place full time (full time mechanic, not a landscaper fyi). they were predicting the blizzard for a couple days or so, so it was not new news. 
day of: got up at 330, at work at 530, they let us out early, 3pm. started to snow on the way home (1hour drive time typical. took 1-1/2 that day. home by 5ish. out to dinner. and then started plowing by 7pm.
3-1/2 people (my trk with a blizzard, bosses trk with a blizzard, and the 1-1/2 pple were in a 3500hd with 8.6 and a v-box salter.....yes it did take 2 pple and yes they shared a brain) 
our route is 12 accounts spanning 20 miles and 4 towns. 2 of which are 24hrs, and rather large (industry type places, but lots of cars and LONG runs to put the snow) I was down south plowing my typical lots, boss called cause she got stuck, so I left and went to pull her out (approx. midnight) the roads getting up there were not even touched (city and state trks weren't out) by the time I got back south to routes guess what they were completely covered again like I hadn't even been there. by 3-4am I get a call from my chickie stating that it was a state of emergency and that no one was to be on the roads. get home and don't be out. 
our route talked and since called it a night. (at this point I hadn't made it to one of our accounts)
agreed to go back out at noon that day. at 10am I started back out (still snowing btw) did the 3 dwn south. finally made it to the one we never touched. the main part was ok, just deep could plow some then had to back drag some all in all was ok. now the fun it has 4 drive up entrances, all of which need to be back dragged first. since we hadn't plowed at all, how do you get into and entrance that's approx. 20-24"s tall to backdrag?? you cant. at this time its about 1pm the next afternoon and the 24hr places are opening at 6pm for the night shift. sooooo I left and the 3-1/2 of us went to the 24hr places.
moral of the story is: everyone wants a blizzard but until you plow in them,,,,,no you really don't
you think you have enough pple,,,no you really don't.
you think your gunna make bank....you might but if you cant plow it cause its to high, your not making a dime. and what if your trk breaks dwn? how you making money when nothing is open cause everyone is plowed in?
right now its easy to Monday morning qb the story. but trying to plow, see the curbs (ni impossible with 20" on the ground) decide whos going where, what is broke down, how to fix, when are we gunna get a break, and when are the loaders gunna get freed up? and throw in the "I haven't slept more then 8 hours in about 3 days fact" yea we all will admit, no one likes a blizzard. and you can never prepare for everything. 
so your out plowing your 24hr lots, and the guy that has a b.s store calls and is raising high he++ b/c you hadn't plowed his lot yet? what do you do? how are you gunna cover your accounts at that point? (yes its a once in a 10 year storm but its something you need to think of) 
just saying I have a trk, with a plow here I am I can do it is not always the best way of starting out. 
well theres my story of the blizzard of 2010.....now wheres my frosty beverage lol


----------



## siteworkplus (Nov 7, 2011)

reading these posts it sounds like you'll do fine. If you deal w/ concrete all the time, the snow's gonna be tit.
As much back-up as you can afford,and make contacts. I try to get 2 of everything or have multi-task equipment
Best advice I can give is follow your gut when it comes to contracts. I like working for local property OWNERS. The face to face handshake after signing a contract makes it real for me. No issues in 10+ yrs doing commercial.
A power angled plow on the skid (i boxed the ends on mine to make it a pusher also) would make it more versatile
good luck


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

dieselss;1700439 said:


> now just saying again summer concrete work not under the gun, and a snow storm that's at the right time and just the right amount and your under the gun is 2 different things
> the blizzard of 2010, at the time I was working at another job so I wasn't at the landscaping place full time (full time mechanic, not a landscaper fyi). they were predicting the blizzard for a couple days or so, so it was not new news.
> day of: got up at 330, at work at 530, they let us out early, 3pm. started to snow on the way home (1hour drive time typical. took 1-1/2 that day. home by 5ish. out to dinner. and then started plowing by 7pm.
> 3-1/2 people (my trk with a blizzard, bosses trk with a blizzard, and the 1-1/2 pple were in a 3500hd with 8.6 and a v-box salter.....yes it did take 2 pple and yes they shared a brain)
> ...


Yuengling, LOL!!! I got you if you come to the burgh... GOOOOO STEELERS, even though they suck right now. But this is why I'm here, as I've paid attention to weather patterns here cause I've always had plans to do snow removal, money is too low and short in the winter to do nothing or next nothing. I don't know what's its like to be out in the cold snowy field so I think these very healthy conversation topics will help me be on my P's n Q's. I never thought that a 250 350 or 450 would have a problem pushing snow, so ill make sure I have all my equipment on deck maintenced and ready to move.


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

And I also have to say, if you wanna make money doing concrete, as in snow removal, you better put yourself under the gun. Specially if you sign a contract that takes a week and the day after it starts raining everyday for a month, then you get nasty swampy muddy conditions that will bury a skid loader. Summertime concrete ain't no fun, when you get a 10 yard pour and it's 90+degrees out there you have the chance of loosing a $1500 load of concrete. If you don't have work lined up your not under the gun, but if you run a business, you are always under the gun.


----------



## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

datank450;1700492 said:


> Yuengling, LOL!!! I got you if you come to the burgh... GOOOOO STEELERS, even though they suck right now. But this is why I'm here, as I've paid attention to weather patterns here cause I've always had plans to do snow removal, money is too low and short in the winter to do nothing or next nothing. I don't know what's its like to be out in the cold snowy field so I think these very healthy conversation topics will help me be on my P's n Q's. I never thought that a 250 350 or 450 would have a problem pushing snow, so ill make sure I have all my equipment on deck maintenced and ready to move.


Alot of people are moving towards ag tractors. Pickups can't hold a candle to them.

It isn't so much that you have a big truck that you can push anything. It takes experience to know what Youre doing


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

Dogplow Dodge;1700430 said:


> Sounds to me like you already answered your own question.
> 
> Follow your instincts, as they generally are correct....
> 
> At least for me, anyways.


Yeah thanks bud!!! That's really what I was looking for cause I'm just going off of gut instinct and as much as the market will allow in my area.


----------



## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

I was in that same blizzard of 2010. Or I think it was 09 right before Christmas we got hammered with 3 feet of snow. The people I was plowing with couldn't understand that you need to push the snow up and over curbs. They just stopped 3 feet from the curb and left it lol I was getting so pissed. 

We had to call in 6 extra trucks and 3 machines for that storm. I slept 8 hours in 4 days.


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

I have a 150'x150' commercial account. Would any of you charge by the season, giving room to make extra money in 5"+ storms. This account requires ice management. I didn't measure the lot, but it looks like 150'-200'sq at the most. What would your monthly fees be? Also if it doesn't snow, I still get paid, witch is highly unlikely. Also room to make money if it snows everyday that month. I don't think I low balled the contract but wanna find out if I'm I'm the right ballpark. I'm covered in all extreme acts of nature to capitalize off of the account. Might I ad, there is a restaurant in the middle of the lot.


----------



## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

datank450;1700603 said:


> I have a 150'x150' commercial account. Would any of you charge by the season, giving room to make extra money in 5"+ storms. This account requires ice management. I didn't measure the lot, but it looks like 150'-200'sq at the most. What would your monthly fees be? Also if it doesn't snow, I still get paid, witch is highly unlikely. Also room to make money if it snows everyday that month. I don't think I low balled the contract but wanna find out if I'm I'm the right ballpark. I'm covered in all extreme acts of nature to capitalize off of the account. Might I ad, there is a restaurant in the middle of the lot.


Got a picture? How much blacktop? Where are you pushing the snow? How far is that? Is there room to stack a lot of snow or will it need to be hauled off mid season when there is no more room? Do you salt when you don't meet plow triggers? All will help us in being able to give you a decent answer. Saying there's a 150x150 lot with a restaurant on it doesn't do much for us.


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

SnowFakers;1700621 said:


> Got a picture? How much blacktop? Where are you pushing the snow? How far is that? Is there room to stack a lot of snow or will it need to be hauled off mid season when there is no more room? Do you salt when you don't meet plow triggers? All will help us in being able to give you a decent answer. Saying there's a 150x150 lot with a restaurant on it doesn't do much for us.


Approx. lot size 16000'sq, building size 2400'sq. almost level lot. Plow trigger at 2"-3", salting will be done for a slippery coating.


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

jbsplow;1700098 said:


> Lol if you have 20" drifts maybe you should be going out 4-5 times before the snow gets to be that high. Lol


There was no way to plow with the storm. Conditions were dangerous. All DOT and emergency vehicles were pulled off the roads. Couldn't even hardly travel down the roads without getting stuck. If you got stuck, you were sleeping in your vehicle for 6 hours or more until emergency vehicles could move.

When we gave up in the night, I had to help police officers get unstuck on state roads so they could move and help them plow out the idiots who thought there mini vans and micro cars get get around town.

All contractors in the area shut down do to the blizzard conditions. There was no fighting it.

In a perfect world, you could plow with the storm, but this was one of those once every decade storms that shut everyone down until it was over.

And we all tried to keep up, but it just got too bad.

........


----------



## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

I stayed on one site that whole storm. Plowed for 2 days with a 2 hour nap. Came home the day it ended for 4 hours and went back out


----------



## GVL LLC (Feb 24, 2013)

also buddy a mini ex isnt really gonna help you in snow removal. I have never seen anyone use a mini ex for removal. Its either loaders, backhoes, skids, or tractors


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Whiffyspark;1701533 said:


> I stayed on one site that whole storm. Plowed for 2 days with a 2 hour nap. Came home the day it ended for 4 hours and went back out


Our sites were blowing in as deep or deeper than it was before you put a plow to it.

For us, with 25+mph winds, it wasn't worth it. Every time you made a pass, it was at the same depth as the snow you didn't touch when you went back.

When we get a 12" snow storm in our area, I can honestly say it's probably equivalent to a 25" storm in an are with no wind.

Smaller metro area, with lots of open land around it that allows the wind and snow to blow in pretty intensely.

We just had an 8" storm not long ago that was abnormal in respect to the lack of wind. It was the best "larger" snow for our area that you could plow with and keep up with no issues in regards to drifting.

Usually, a couple of my rural customers get 3'-4' drifts after a 3" snow.

.....


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

GVL LLC;1702120 said:


> also buddy a mini ex isnt really gonna help you in snow removal. I have never seen anyone use a mini ex for removal. Its either loaders, backhoes, skids, or tractors


A little late on that one... But anyway bud, I have equipment to handle anything I get myself into, especially if snow drifts pack as tight as concrete.


----------



## datank450 (Dec 25, 2013)

I had my attorney go over the subbing contract with me and my main concern is a contract to help them dominate the market for genaral construction. This isn't a contract limited to only snow removal, it's for the generality of construction and subbing. I think I will take it to get my feet wet this year an then see what kind of accounts I can come up with next year.


----------

