# New trucks



## nick4634 (Nov 4, 2011)

Went to the chevy dealer today to look at new trucks. Trying to replace my 2000 F250. Priced out a 2500 reg cab ls with 8 hd for 32000 which seemed high after i spent some time going over the truck. Surface rust starting on the frame and diff cover. Bed flexed bad when i knocked on it. Any body have any input on haow the new body style holds up and if that price is reasonable.


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

Just got 2 2013 gmcs 4x4 with almost no options for 26k ea.


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## herb1001 (Sep 15, 2010)

I am looking at the ram 2500 but not sure if I want to put out the money.


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## jmac5058 (Sep 28, 2009)

All new trucks are like tin foil , if you work your truck hard it will not hold up well . Thats why I go Chassis cab and flatbed.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

jmac5058;1656103 said:


> All new trucks are like tin foil , if you work your truck hard it will not hold up well . Thats why I go Chassis cab and flatbed.


Tin Foil >>>> X2 On That Comment


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

nick4634;1656074 said:


> Went to the chevy dealer today to look at new trucks. Trying to replace my 2000 F250. Priced out a 2500 reg cab ls with 8 hd for 32000 which seemed high after i spent some time going over the truck. Surface rust starting on the frame and diff cover. Bed flexed bad when i knocked on it. Any body have any input on haow the new body style holds up and if that price is reasonable.


Grappone Ford should be able to put you in a well equipped 2013 F250 XL with a 9.6 Fisher XV-2 for 37 out the door. I got mine there January 3 ('12 leftover) with the 9.6 xv for $36,500. It has cloth, power, trailer brake controller, plow prep, 10K gvw, 3:73 electronic locker, electronic shift on the fly 4x4, cab lights, and the Fx4 package. It returns 18 mpg on the highway, and 20 on the back roads if I try for it. It does about 10 mpg plowing.
It pushes the 9.6 V plow like nothing.
I put 4K down, got it $100 under invoice, and all rebates and incentives...and 0% financing. How can ya beat that?

Just saying.


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

Buswell Forest;1656469 said:


> Grappone Ford should be able to put you in a well equipped 2013 F250 XL with a 9.6 Fisher XV-2 for 37 out the door. I got mine there January 3 ('12 leftover) with the 9.6 xv for $36,500. It has cloth, power, trailer brake controller, plow prep, 10K gvw, 3:73 electronic locker, electronic shift on the fly 4x4, cab lights, and the Fx4 package. It returns 18 mpg on the highway, and 20 on the back roads if I try for it. It does about 10 mpg plowing.
> It pushes the 9.6 V plow like nothing.
> I put 4K down, got it $100 under invoice, and all rebates and incentives...and 0% financing. How can ya beat that?
> 
> Just saying.


Now thats a deal!


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## herb1001 (Sep 15, 2010)

What is ur monthly payment?


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Mine? 

$542.


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## bswalks (Dec 9, 2010)

Buswell Forest;1656469 said:


> Grappone Ford should be able to put you in a well equipped 2013 F250 XL with a 9.6 Fisher XV-2 for 37 out the door. I got mine there January 3 ('12 leftover) with the 9.6 xv for $36,500. It has cloth, power, trailer brake controller, plow prep, 10K gvw, 3:73 electronic locker, electronic shift on the fly 4x4, cab lights, and the Fx4 package. It returns 18 mpg on the highway, and 20 on the back roads if I try for it. It does about 10 mpg plowing.
> It pushes the 9.6 V plow like nothing.
> I put 4K down, got it $100 under invoice, and all rebates and incentives...and 0% financing. How can ya beat that?
> 
> Just saying.


That's a great deal, thanks for the info.
I've been checking their website, & it showed their no hassle pricing, which was crazy, way more than you paid. 
I really want to try the new 6.2, & dump the bow tie. Maybe I'll look into it further.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Call them on the 29th or 30th this week. End of the month is the best time to get a deal. Tell them you want a truck @ invoice. Tell them you want it with a 9.6 Fisher XV2. If you have $4k or more down, they will work like crazy to get you to sign.


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## norcoprop (Oct 22, 2012)

I have a 2013 2500 HD wt regular cab eight foot box. I am not impressed with the sheet metal, dents and dings very easy for a $48,000 truck with 8'6" extreme v stainless plow included in that price. 13,000 miles to date and the bed rails look like I had a fit and took a ball peen to it repeatedly, and we try to be careful with our equipment.Just rest your elbow and try to pick a trimmer out of the bed and you have a new dent. The 6.0 is pretty sleepy in hills and you really have to put your foot in the firewall to get a down shift, then you feel as if a rod is going to come flying out of the hood. The transmission (I think) has a whine like a dry power steering pump,need to get to the dealer soon about that. I don't know, always liked Chevy but i came out of a 2009 f250 with the 6.4 Powerstroke to this, might be heading back to Ford in a couple years. But other than these issues the truck is doing ok.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

We've been looking at new 3/4 and 1 ton trucks the last few months too. Not sure when we're going to buy. We're waiting for the right time to buy it out right so we don't have any payment at all. Our current truck is paid for and in great condition with less then 47K miles on it. So we're going to be in good shape when we do buy. We'll probably order the truck we want.

One thing we've noticed about the GMC/Chevy's is that sheet metal seems thinner then the others, especially the box sides. My buddy also complains about putting his elbows on his box sides of his new GMC and having new dents.

norcoprop, does your truck have 3.73 or 4.10 gears?

NYH1.


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## norcoprop (Oct 22, 2012)

NYH1;1657081 said:


> We've been looking at new 3/4 and 1 ton trucks the last few months too. Not sure when we're going to buy. We're waiting for the right time to buy it out right so we don't have any payment at all. Our current truck is paid for and in great condition with less then 47K miles on it. So we're going to be in good shape when we do buy. We'll probably order the truck we want.
> 
> One thing we've noticed about the GMC/Chevy's is that sheet metal seems thinner then the others, especially the box sides. My buddy also complains about putting his elbows on his box sides of his new GMC and having new dents.
> 
> ...


It has the 3:73 gears. I miss the bed rails of the Ford, Plastic caps that 
never dented


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

norcoprop;1657171 said:


> It has the 3:73 gears. I miss the bed rails of the Ford, Plastic caps that
> never dented


Thanks. I went with the 3.92's over the 3.55's in my current Ram 1500 and I'm glad I did. It came with 275/60-20 (33x11) Goodyear Wrangler HP wheels & tires which were the worse tires I've ever had on a 4x4. I sold them and went with factory 17 wheels. Now I have Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac 285/70-17 (33x11.5) and it pulls them really good and they're awesome.

When I do step up to a 3/4 or 1 ton truck I'm definitely going with 4.10 gears for sure.

NYH1.


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## norcoprop (Oct 22, 2012)

NYH1;1657218 said:


> Thanks. I went with the 3.92's over the 3.55's in my current Ram 1500 and I'm glad I did. It came with 275/60-20 (33x11) Goodyear Wrangler HP wheels & tires which were the worse tires I've ever had on a 4x4. I sold them and went with factory 17 wheels. Now I have Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac 285/70-17 (33x11.5) and it pulls them really good and they're awesome.
> 
> When I do step up to a 3/4 or 1 ton truck I'm definitely going with 4.10 gears for sure.
> 
> NYH1.


A buddy of mine has a 2012 Chevrolet 3500 dump with the 4:10's he says that one is all over the place as far as the rpm's cant find a happy medium and in steep grades with a cord of wood he has to drop into 1'st gear in order to make it. Just does not seem to be a happy medium. My 2010 extra cab on the other hand has all the power one would ever need and that is the 6.0 also not sure of the ratio though
Norco


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

My 2012 F250 has the 3:73 gearset. The only gas engine offered is the 6.2, and let me tell you, it's a potent combo. I had thought back when I started searching that I would want the optional 4:30 gears. But now...I couldn't imagine a need for that. And the mileage would suffer for no good reason.
My advice, don't go lower than 3:73 in a 3/4 ton with a 400 hp V8. You don't need it.

What you DO WANT is the electronic shift on the fly 4x4 option. Turn a knob (or flip a switch). Pulling a lever isn't the worst, but having to lock the hubs in and out sucketh.


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## CAT 245ME (Sep 10, 2006)

Buswell Forest;1657302 said:


> What you DO WANT is the electronic shift on the fly 4x4 option. Turn a knob (or flip a switch). Pulling a lever isn't the worst, but having to lock the hubs in and out sucketh.


I'll take pulling the lever and locking the hubs any day of the week over any electronic shift, no matter what brand of truck it is.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

CAT 245ME;1657307 said:


> I'll take pulling the lever and locking the hubs any day of the week over any electronic shift, no matter what brand of truck it is.


Cat >>> I am with you on this one.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

norcoprop;1657262 said:


> A buddy of mine has a 2012 Chevrolet 3500 dump with the 4:10's he says that one is all over the place as far as the rpm's cant find a happy medium and in steep grades with a cord of wood he has to drop into 1'st gear in order to make it. Just does not seem to be a happy medium. My 2010 extra cab on the other hand has all the power one would ever need and that is the 6.0 also not sure of the ratio though
> Norco


If he had 3.73's it'd be worse. In a heavy dumper like that, 4.30's might make sense.

NYH1.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Well, I LOVE turning the knob and having it in 4x4. 

To me, it's like saying to your wife "No, I don't want your gorgeous 24 year old sister to join us in the hot tub, call your mom up instead..."


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Buswell Forest;1657302 said:


> My 2012 F250 has the 3:73 gearset. The only gas engine offered is the 6.2, and let me tell you, it's a potent combo. I had thought back when I started searching that I would want the optional 4:30 gears. But now...I couldn't imagine a need for that. And the mileage would suffer for no good reason.
> My advice, don't go lower than 3:73 in a 3/4 ton with a 400 hp V8. You don't need it.
> 
> What you DO WANT is the electronic shift on the fly 4x4 option. Turn a knob (or flip a switch). Pulling a lever isn't the worst, but having to lock the hubs in and out sucketh.


Between 3.73's and 4.30's I think you're right, 3.73's make more sense there. I don't know why Ford go's from 3.73's and skips over 4.10's and go's to 4.30's, that's a big gap. In most cases 4.10's are a lot more useful then 4.30's.

I've always' liked Ford Trucks. However, a new F250 or F350 is out of the question for me for a few reasons. No 4.10 gears, no "regular mechanical style" limited slip or locking differential. . . . .which is a must for any truck I own. I don't want an electronic locking differential. I don't want locking hubs.

Just my $.02, YMMV! NYH1.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Mine is a limited slip until I lock it, and the limited slip works very well. And like I said, the 3:73 gears are more than enough. 
Also, if you order, or get lucky and find one, they do make it with no e locker.
But, being wary of new tech is only holding you back. I bet when fuel injection came out you didn't want anything to do with it..lol, if you are old enough to remember pumping the throttle 10 times to start the thing..
And I use the term "new tech" loosely, as it's not even remotely new.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Buswell Forest;1657490 said:


> Mine is a limited slip until I lock it, and the limited slip works very well. And like I said, the 3:73 gears are more than enough.
> Also, if you order, or get lucky and find one, they do make it with no e locker.
> But, being wary of new tech is only holding you back. I bet when fuel injection came out you didn't want anything to do with it..lol, if you are old enough to remember pumping the throttle 10 times to start the thing..
> And I use the term "new tech" loosely, as it's not even remotely new.


You like 3.73's and that's great, I'm glad you do. But who are you to tell me that 3.73's are more then enough for me? Your 6.2L V8 isn't enough engine, you should trade your truck in tomorrow and get one with the 6.7L diesel. Get a F-450, that'll work so much better for you. . . . .see where I'm going here!

Most of my driving is around town, stop and go, in hilly areas. Driving and towing heavy loads for me is better with lower gears. I've done it both ways, I know what works best for my needs and what doesn't.

I'm not wary of new technology at all. You want to know why I don't want an electronic locking differential. Because I don't want to have to engage it. All I have to do to get the limited slip/lockers to work that I've been using all these years in my trucks and Cars is push the gas peddle. . . . .that's it!

Never been against fuel injection. I was in junior high/high school when fuel injection became main stream. Mustang GT, Chevy Trucks TBI. So other then my toys, fuel injection is all I've had. 

When I put a TH200R4 or Tremec TKO 500/600 5 speed (OD tranny's) in my Camaro, the 3.42's will be replaced with either 3.90's or 4.10's. Don't fear the gear!

NYH1.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Only time I use the elocker is backing out of possible stucks when I get too aggressive with a push. It's saved me more than once.
Never had a limited work worth beans in reverse. Positive lock comes in handy now and then. 
I was thinking about putting an ARB air locker in the front diff. Just for getting out of bad situations. Hate calling a buddy.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Buswell Forest;1657527 said:


> Only time I use the elocker is backing out of possible stucks when I get too aggressive with a push. It's saved me more than once.
> Never had a limited work worth beans in reverse. Positive lock comes in handy now and then.
> I was thinking about putting an ARB air locker in the front diff. Just for getting out of bad situations. Hate calling a buddy.


Bus, all the limited slips, anti spins, be it factory Ford, Chevy, Dodge or after market Etons, Yukon Duragrip's even Auburn's that I have ever used worked going forward or backwards. If, there ever was any type of "one wheel slip" like if you're on clear ice a simple tap on the brake while you apple the gas will make the LSD work and you're go to go.

Clutch type LSD's are easy to rebuild if they do wear out as long as parts are available. As far as I know the cone types like the Auburn's aren't. The newer gear types are supposed to be more reliable, although guys say they don't lock up quite as good as the clutch or cone types do. However, the road race guys really like the gear type LSD's. The street/strip guys like the clutch type LSD (mainly because they can add spring pressure to the clutch packs to increase lockup from the typical 200 lbs. to 400/600/800 lbs. springs). The serious strip cars and serious off road truck guys "that still drive on the street" like the Detroit Locker types. There are a lot of guys that like "E" and air lockers too.

The only experience I've ever had with any type of air lockers was back in the mid/late 90's with our tractor trailers and their "power dividers" that was suppose to lock the rear wheels together for added traction at low speeds. Ours worked half the time at best. Then if they did lock, they wouldn't unlock. That was a while ago. I'm sure other guys can speak of the newer stuff out there now.

Good luck, NYH1.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

NYH1;1657494 said:


> You like 3.73's and that's great, I'm glad you do. But who are you to tell me that 3.73's are more then enough for me? Your 6.2L V8 isn't enough engine, you should trade your truck in tomorrow and get one with the 6.7L diesel. Get a F-450, that'll work so much better for you. . . . .see where I'm going here!
> 
> Most of my driving is around town, stop and go, in hilly areas. Driving and towing heavy loads for me is better with lower gears. I've done it both ways, I know what works best for my needs and what doesn't.
> 
> ...


The only thing you are forgetting is the transmission choice. I've owned a 2004 Ram 2500 HEMI that has the same transmission in your truck, my 2500 had 4.10's in it as well (not the 3.92's that come in the 1500's). The 545RFE transmission has horrible gear spacing when it comes to towing, even with my 4.10's my little 16' boat would lug the engine going up hills where I'd lose about 5-10mph before it would downshift throwing the RPM's through the roof and picking up speed like crazy - no happy medium.

The new F250/F350's have a VERY nice 6 Speed Torqueshift (6R110 I believe) transmission. The gear ratios are very evenly spaced, keeping the engine in its sweet spot in regards to HP/TQ. The gearing is very "steep" in the 1-4 gear ratio's and has a nice overdrive as well. This negates the need for a high (numerically) rear end like before. I towed the same boat with a 2012 F250 Crew Cab and it didn't know it was there, the 6.2 barely cared or really rev'd up at all. Comparing to my HEMI it was night and day, and yes the F250 had 3.73's.

Not saying I know your situation, but I can say I've had a similar drivetrain and had the same thinking as you when I went to buy my next truck. After driving the newer trucks with actual 6 speed transmissions, my mind was completely changed.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

I agree, the 6 speed and 3:73 gears put the Ford's 405 fpt to good use. I wasn't trying to school anyone, merely relate personal experience. I have towed a trailer and farm tractor that weighed aproximately 10k combined, and while it wasn't exactly un-noticeable, it went with no struggle at all. 

If the electonic parts fail, well, that's why I bought a new truck- the warranty. When the truck has 36k or so, it should be paid down to a point where I can trade for another new truck and plow and not loose my arse. I might even gain a few bucks of equity.
Next truck will be an F350 diesel srw, reg cab. The 2015 powerstroke is supposed to be sporting a lot more power and no loss of mpg. Supposed to be a monster.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

I was actually talking about the '13 Ram 2500 Hemi with the new 66RFE 6 speed auto with 4.10's. I'm really impressed with it. It tows great and didn't turn to many RPM on the highway. I liked it better then my other buddy's '12 GMC 2500 6.0L 4.10. I'll have to check out the '14 Ram's with the new 6.4L Hemi and 66RFE 6 speed. Most of our driving is around town so highway MPG isn't a concern so lower gearing isn't going to hurt us, it actually helps us, gets things moving a little easier.

I'd also like to see how a GMC/Chevy 3500 with a 6.0L is. Is doesn't make as much HP as the 6.0L in the 2500 (322 to 360), but it makes it's peak HP 1000 RPM lower then the one in a 2500 does. But does that actually make any "real world" difference?? They make same TQ at the same RPM. I don't know anyone with a 3500.

There is a _slight_ difference in the 545RFE for the '06 model year and on. They changed the OD modes. From '06 on there's a "Tow/Haul Mode" which locks out 5th gear (2nd OD gear) and changes the shift points and also a "OD OFF Mode" which locks out both 5th and 4th gears (2nd and 1st OD gears) and changes the shift points the same way the "Tow/Haul Mode" does. However, the gear ratios remained the same. But I understand it needed to be updated/replaced as they all had/have to be at some point.

Not sure how much your boat weighs. I've towed our 29' 6500 lbs. camper trailer back and forth to our hunting camp in the Southern Tier for a few deer seasons. I'd put in tow/haul mode (locks out 5th gear (2nd OD) and changes the shift points) and set the cruise at 65 MPH on Interstate 81. On the flat areas it'd cruise nice at about 2500 RPM and then down shift on hills like you would expect it would. I didn't think it was to bad at all. Once I got off I 81 the roads were very windy and hilly two lane 55 MPH down to small towns 30 MPH single stop lights/sighs. I don't get any excessive lugging, losing speed before downshifting and then picking up speed like crazy that you had. Not saying you didn't have that happen, just that it doesn't happen to me. Maybe your truck being heavier then mine or the OD mode changes I'm not sure. Now my trucks not even in the same ballpark as my friends newer Ram 2500 or GMC 2500. . . . .not for a minute.

I leased a '02 Dakota Quad Cab 4x4, 4.7L V8, 545RFE auto 3.55, tow pkg. Towing my 4 place ATV trailer 3500 lbs. *MAX* to the same hunting camp mentioned above, I put it in towing mode (which wasn't the same as my Ram). That thing would down shift to like 2nd gear, turn 5500 plus RPM, be in the redline and sound like it was coming apart and I'd be going up a moderate hill at 35 MPH. The following year in '03 one of the guys bought the same Dakota as me. The only difference he had 3.92's. His truck towed my trailer quite a bit better then mine did. I was shocked. Going from 3.55 to 3.92 would make that much of a difference. He'd tow my trailer and I'd carry the odd crap in my truck.

Had a similar situation in '08. We were putting in a food plot. One of our guys brought his dads tractor and plow/harrow thing (I think) down. It wasn't that big, but it was an older tractor, well made an solid as a rock and worked great. His dad actually restored it and used it around his house, little farm like thing he has. Now his dad has an older F-350 7.3 Powerstroke (looks brand new like the tractor) but had to use it that weekend to pull his 5th wheel. His dad said the tractor on the trailer with everything they had with it weighed between 8500 to 9000 lbs. the best he could guess. Our trucks are pretty much the same, same year, both Hemi's, we both had 265/70-17 tires at the time. His had 3.55's mine of course has 3.92's. His max tow is 7500 lbs. mine is 8500 lbs., from the gear difference. 
He had a hard time towing it down there. He was going to leave it and come back down the following weekend with his dads truck. Talking to a few locals we knew well they said if we left it chances were someone would do or take something from it. They'd been having a lot of problems. He lived farther then me but in the same direction. The worst part was the area where our hunting camp was. I had good luck towing our camper, so I said I give the tractor a try. He towed my ATV trailer and followed me. We switched trailers at my turn off area, he only had another 10 miles to go at that point and the worse was well behind him. 
He said I averaged 8 to 10 MPH more then he was able to on the roads around the camp, very windy and hilly. And was impressed how much better my truck took off from a stop. I put it in "OD OFF Mode" (3rd gear, no OD) and never went over any posted speed limit. Once we got on the Interstate I put it in "Tow/haul Mode" (4th gear, 1st OD gear) and set the cruise at 58 MPH. Now 2000 to 2500 lbs. is a noticeable difference over our 6500 lbs. camper no doubt, it down shifted a lot more then when with the camper for sure. I think my truck did a good job power, transmission, gear wise. But it's not made to do this all the time that's why I have to get a heavier duty truck.

There was a big ball joint issue with that year/generation Dakota/Durango that I had that ended up being a recall. I was at the stealership getting something done to my Dakota and saw a notice that Chrysler was giving $4500 off on new Durango's to people that were currently leasing a Dakota or Durango effected by the ball joint recall. That $4500 paid off my Dakota lease and was enough for a down payment for a new '05 Durango AWD SLT Hemi 3.92's. I never sat in my Dakota again after seeing that notice lol. That Durango towed our ATV trailer and our camper trailer great. . . . .not as good as my Ram (and not as good as my friends 3/4 tons) and was fast as he!!. When I got my Ram I gave the Durango to my wife.

Is it true that with the new diesel engines in all the pickup trucks out now you have to work them hard, as in tow or haul with them regularly to keep them running good? If you just tool around and don't use them as diesels are meant to be used they can soot up and not run that good? I've never had a diesel pickup truck. I drove truck for a while. That was a different game though.

Thanks for talking guys. My grandma is 91 and had a stroke the Friday before last, 10 days ago. She was day to day, now she is hour to hour. I lost my first grandparent when I was 19, her husband, that was HARD. Then my dads parents passed away in '96 and '99. That was easier. Maybe because I already went through it. I really thought that this was going to be easier for me. It's killing me. I kept my cell phone in my hand all night last night. Last time I looked at it was 4:48am. We were all there when my other grandparents passed. The thought of her being alone, I just can't think of it.

End of rant gents. Glad we're all happy with our trucks, likes and dislikes. Thanks for the info, NYH1!


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

The engine is probably the exact same in the 3500. I thought the same thing when I bought my F250. The F250 was rated to have more hp. Turns out, they test the engine for hp at a lower RPM in the trucks over 10,000 lbs gvw. Same exact engine. EPA rules allow for it, so that's what they do. Probably there's a good reason, but I don't know what that is.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Buswell Forest;1657857 said:


> The engine is probably the exact same in the 3500. I thought the same thing when I bought my F250. The F250 was rated to have more hp. Turns out, they test the engine for hp at a lower RPM in the trucks over 10,000 lbs gvw. Same exact engine. EPA rules allow for it, so that's what they do. Probably there's a good reason, but I don't know what that is.


Yeah, I figured it was something like that, that's why I asked.

NYH1.


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## jvm81 (Jan 4, 2005)

I am running all gmc 3/4 trucks with boss plows. Snow ex and salt dog sanders. Plain work trucks. I have had no issues. I have had the other brands but always issues. Switched to all gm. Sheet metal is dentable for sure. These are gas trucks.


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## jmac5058 (Sep 28, 2009)

The reason larger trucks have diffrent / lower HP and torque ratings is because of the duty rating . The builders expect a 1 ton to be pushed harder and be run a 80% of max payload at all times Were they expect a 3/4 to be used as a car more often and run at 40% . A new Ford F-250 has 400 hp ,800 tq a New F -650 290 hp and 650 tq , not because a 650 needs less power because there pushed much harder.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

NYH1;1657811 said:


> I was actually talking about the '13 Ram 2500 Hemi with the new 66RFE 6 speed auto with 4.10's. I'm really impressed with it. It tows great and didn't turn to many RPM on the highway. I liked it better then my other buddy's '12 GMC 2500 6.0L 4.10. I'll have to check out the '14 Ram's with the new 6.4L Hemi and 66RFE 6 speed. Most of our driving is around town so highway MPG isn't a concern so lower gearing isn't going to hurt us, it actually helps us, gets things moving a little easier.
> 
> I'd also like to see how a GMC/Chevy 3500 with a 6.0L is. Is doesn't make as much HP as the 6.0L in the 2500 (322 to 360), but it makes it's peak HP 1000 RPM lower then the one in a 2500 does. But does that actually make any "real world" difference?? They make same TQ at the same RPM. I don't know anyone with a 3500.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying my Ram 2500 didn't tow well - it would pull weight without problem, the power was there, it just wasn't overly enjoyable. The 5.7 HEMI likes to Rev to make its power, its matched to a glorified 4 speed transmission. It doesn't have an actual 5 gears, in fact it was originally a 45RFE that was in the Jeep Grand Cherokee in 99, then reflashed for the additional gear (clutch packs applied).

The biggest problem is first and 2nd are spaced fairly well, but there is a huge gap going into 3rd. For 2011 Dodge flashed it once again and called it a 65RFE using the 2nd Prime "gear" as an additional gear to get 6 forward "shifts". 2nd Prime is the weakest gear in the transmission, its the gear the truck will downshift too while towing and under hard acceleration which eventually causes failure.

I've owned a 2003 QC Dakota 4.7 Auto with 3.55's, My wifes 03 Liberty has the 45RFE in it, My Ram 2500 had it. I work for a fleet company and have used a 2012 Ram 2500 to tow a parts Ram to my house from NH. It also had the 545RFE with the new Tow/Haul and ERS (Electronic Range Select-aka-you choose the highest gear it can shift too). Once again, it towed well but not as well as the Ford's 6 speed/6.2. Its really hard to explain until you actually try one. When I jumped in the Ford and did some towing hauling - it just felt easy overall. I was relaxed, my wife didn't notice anything different, kids didn't care- when in comparison we all felt the downshifts in the Ram, high rev's from the motor, etc.

Now in my 7.3, it doesn't really downshift at all, just whistles a bit when I need it to LOL. And in regards to the newer diesels - UREA helps with the soot buildup but doesn't get rid of it. They aren't well suited for quick trips - but if you are towing often, it'll keep EGTs up and burn off pretty well.

Sorry for the long post! Please know, I've only owned Dodges for a very long time. I think somewhere around 10 Rams, 1 Dakota - so I do not dislike them. Just trying to give my experience.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

LOL you guys are spoiled by all these gears... have any of you ever driven a Powerglide? :laughing:

You had low, and high. Trucks had at most 220hp (gross, not net like today) IF your ordered a V8, most trucks had little inline sixes... 

...and yet, work still got done!


As for me, I stick with old tech that I can repair at home in the middle of night with basic tools and parts... like it or not, new stuff breaks too. (in fact my biggest weakness is piss-poor aftermarket new parts failing, second place is rust...) I will keep my brutish manual four speeds and TH400s, they work--always. I will keep manual locking hubs, they work--always. I will keep a lever actuated transfer case, they work--always. I will keep mechanical lockers/posis/limited slips/etc, they work--always. Yup, my equipment works on the theory of "Brute Force and Ignorance", finesse it aint!! lmao

*legal disclaimer--The word "always" refers to not being stopped by a little fuzzy green corrosion caused by random salt crystals in sensitive places or debris-sliced air or vaccuum lines. It is not meant to imply that these parts don't wear out or break if abused... :laughing:


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Never going to be without a new truck ( no older than 3 years! ) that has electronic 4x4, e-locker, and an automatic so long as I need a truck.
I use the 4x4 every day for one reason or another, and it's awesome to not have to lock in hubs. In winter, I have several miles of clear pavement between pushes. Nice to not have the front driveline in motion for no reason. 

Rather have a known quantity of monthly payment than an unknown breakdown and bill hanging over my head.
If it breaks, call the dealer. Warranty. But chances are good it will not fail.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

CAT 245ME;1657307 said:


> I'll take pulling the lever and locking the hubs any day of the week over any electronic shift, no matter what brand of truck it is.


Same here, pretty easy fix to change a broken hub...... I wouldn't know where to begin troubleshooting the electric one.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

jrs.landscaping;1659480 said:


> Same here, pretty easy fix to change a broken hub...... I wouldn't know where to begin troubleshooting the electric one.


It's vacuum activated. Same as changing a "manual" hub. In fact, my F250 can be locked in as if it were manual. All that means is when I take it out of 4x4, the hub remains locked.

These things are more or less bulletproof. They are nothing to be scared of.
Use a truck with the Electronic 4x4 for a shift of plowing, you'll be a believer.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Dunno about that, my friend's F250 has those funky vacuum powered hubs, 3x he's needed 4x4 and not had it because they've been seized up (and they aren't cheap either). The shop he bought them thru had an Excursion on the rack getting the same work done, said to be a known problem on the Fords.

Mine get locked in November and unlocked in April... lol but they are work trucks only, and don't need to go far. I keep my route very, very tight.

Mind you, my S15/Sonoma has a vacuum setup, it has never ever given any problems in all these years--simpler maybe? The vacuum pod pulls a cable that manually locks the hubs in the front axle. Should the vacuum fail, I can unhook it under the hood and pull the cable with a pair of vise grips to do the same thing... Vacuum is probably still better than electric, especially the thermo-electric do-dads GM was using for a bunch of years in the full size.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

derekbroerse;1659621 said:


> Dunno about that, my friend's F250 has those funky vacuum powered hubs, 3x he's needed 4x4 and not had it because they've been seized up (and they aren't cheap either). The shop he bought them thru had an Excursion on the rack getting the same work done, said to be a known problem on the Fords.
> 
> Mine get locked in November and unlocked in April... lol but they are work trucks only, and don't need to go far. I keep my route very, very tight.
> 
> Mind you, my S15/Sonoma has a vacuum setup, it has never ever given any problems in all these years--simpler maybe? The vacuum pod pulls a cable that manually locks the hubs in the front axle. Should the vacuum fail, I can unhook it under the hood and pull the cable with a pair of vise grips to do the same thing... Vacuum is probably still better than electric, especially the thermo-electric do-dads GM was using for a bunch of years in the full size.


The manual is supposed to be a back up to the vacuum. Hubs are very easy to change no different than a manual. Sometimes the vacuum lines rot and need to be replaced.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

To keep hubs free and front driveline parts lubed and free, I always locked them in and ran it down the road a mile once a week or so. 
With this new truck, doing it is the twist of a knob..so I use it every day just about. But, I work in the woods..

if hubs freeze up, it's improper lube and never using them.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Well, he's a farmer, so the truck goes off road pretty regularly, but otherwise 4wd is probably only used in winter. Don't know if the manual knobs still worked, if they did I probably wouldn't have bothered changing them, but he did it repeatedly. I think what blew me away was the price of the part, at around $500 per wheel...


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Warranty is all fine and good, IF you have a good dealer and they have time to make the repairs, you could still be without a truck for days. This site is filled with horror stories of people relying on their warranty, that is, IF it is honored and not disqualified for abuse.

Also, I don't know about you guys, but any time I take anything in for repairs it comes back screwed up and at a bigger bill than estimated. Most recent was sending in the 6.2 diesel crewcab for an injector pump swap--I don't know my diesel tech well and didn't have the time to learn it, so I farmed it out to one of the largest professional shops in the local area. Was seeping diesel under a tank strap so I threw a new tank in the back and had them install that too. They cut the steel lines and patched them with rubber, but at the same time cut my rear brake line and also patched it with rubber hose! Sent me home with no rear brakes, I had a fit when I saw what they had done! Went back, had a little chat with the manager and they didn't even believe me until I showed them a picture on the digital camera, then the attitude changed real quick and they sent a flatbed for the truck. Two days later I pick the truck up again, fill up the diesel tank and head home, where it quits a block from home and needed to be flat towed with a chain to the yard... They sent the flatbed again middle of last week, haven't seen the truck since. Keeping in mind the truck ran fine when I originally dropped it off, just had a hard time starting when it was warm. There is a good reason why I do everything I can at home... blah...


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## Winter Land Man (Aug 9, 2005)

Buswell Forest;1656469 said:


> Grappone Ford should be able to put you in a well equipped 2013 F250 XL with a 9.6 Fisher XV-2 for 37 out the door. I got mine there January 3 ('12 leftover) with the 9.6 xv for $36,500. It has cloth, power, trailer brake controller, plow prep, 10K gvw, 3:73 electronic locker, electronic shift on the fly 4x4, cab lights, and the Fx4 package. It returns 18 mpg on the highway, and 20 on the back roads if I try for it. It does about 10 mpg plowing.
> It pushes the 9.6 V plow like nothing.
> I put 4K down, got it $100 under invoice, and all rebates and incentives...and 0% financing. How can ya beat that?
> 
> Just saying.


What's with all the half-tons having HT series plows?


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

derekbroerse;1659771 said:


> Well, he's a farmer, so the truck goes off road pretty regularly, but otherwise 4wd is probably only used in winter. Don't know if the manual knobs still worked, if they did I probably wouldn't have bothered changing them, but he did it repeatedly. I think what blew me away was the price of the part, at around $500 per wheel...


He was being rap●d with no lube. I bought 2 new Warn hubs for my F550 for less than that.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

derekbroerse;1659777 said:


> Warranty is all fine and good, IF you have a good dealer and they have time to make the repairs, you could still be without a truck for days. This site is filled with horror stories of people relying on their warranty, that is, IF it is honored and not disqualified for abuse.
> 
> Also, I don't know about you guys, but any time I take anything in for repairs it comes back screwed up and at a bigger bill than estimated. Most recent was sending in the 6.2 diesel crewcab for an injector pump swap--I don't know my diesel tech well and didn't have the time to learn it, so I farmed it out to one of the largest professional shops in the local area. Was seeping diesel under a tank strap so I threw a new tank in the back and had them install that too. They cut the steel lines and patched them with rubber, but at the same time cut my rear brake line and also patched it with rubber hose! Sent me home with no rear brakes, I had a fit when I saw what they had done! Went back, had a little chat with the manager and they didn't even believe me until I showed them a picture on the digital camera, then the attitude changed real quick and they sent a flatbed for the truck. Two days later I pick the truck up again, fill up the diesel tank and head home, where it quits a block from home and needed to be flat towed with a chain to the yard... They sent the flatbed again middle of last week, haven't seen the truck since. Keeping in mind the truck ran fine when I originally dropped it off, just had a hard time starting when it was warm. There is a good reason why I do everything I can at home... blah...


Wow! That is beyond the pale! They better not try to charge you for these things! I'd lose my religion if it were me.

Grappone Ford is a big dealer, with many service bays. If my truck needs help, they should be able to get it done fast.
And if not....there's lots of dealers out there who want my business.
I will be buying a backup plow rig, just in case!


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Winter Land Man;1659833 said:


> What's with all the half-tons having HT series plows?


I bet they sell as many 150s with plows as they do Super Dutys. Some guys would rather plow themselves, but they don't need a 10k gvw truck.


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