# New treated salt product.



## Alan (Mar 2, 2000)

I just foudn out today that Cargil will be marketing a treated salt product in this area. I believe the additive is called "Clean Roads". I was at the local Cargil distributor and saw the mixer in the process of being fabbed. Looks like an auger, similar to a sand screw in a wash plant, a feed hopper and discharge conveyor. Pretty simple, the only thing that appeared new was the mixer, the rest was all used stuff. When it's done it will be set up at a distribution point in White River Junction and they will sell the mix out of there. By the way, it's confirmed, salt will be $72/ton to start with, supplies seem normal and nobody knows what winter will seee for price increases.


----------



## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

I got a quote for salt that was $50 and some change per ton, delivered. I think you might want to look for a better price. You can't be located that far away that the price is that much higher. Maybe ask around (among plowsite memebers), but that price seems pretty high.


----------



## Alan (Mar 2, 2000)

SnoJob, I can ask around all day but we're at the end of the pipeline up here and have one distributor within driving range. I keep hearing rumors about cheap salt coming out of Canada, but I've never been able to track down the supplier


----------



## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

Alan-

End of the pipeline, or not, I'd be asking both night and day with those prices. I would think about $500 plus per 25 ton load would get delivery from quite a distance.


----------



## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

For anyone interested, I have the info on the "Clear Roads" product that Alan mentioned at the top of this thread. I faxed him that info today, if anyone else wants the info, just post or email me a fax number, and I will get it right out to you.
Dino


----------



## Taconic (May 18, 2001)

Snojob if you know of any salt in n.y. or new england ofr 20.00 a ton please let me know because it is non existant out here on the east coast.Alan is right salt is much more out here
John P


----------



## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

Taconic-

I don't know where you get $20 per ton salt from? I am talking about $50/ton salt. Never mentioned $20 per ton in the thread? You misunderstood something, John.

After reading my last post, I see you mistook the $500 for 25 ton figure to be something other than I intended. That figure represents the approximate difference in pricing for 25 tons. $51x25=$1275, my price. Alans price: $72x25=$1800. 

My point is no matter where you are in the "pipeline" there is cheaper salt available. I'll guarantee if Geoff can get salt in Maine for $40 or so a ton, pricing is comparable in other "isolated" markets. 

John- What do you pay for salt? I'd bet it is nowhere near $72 per ton.


----------



## Chuck Smith (Dec 30, 1999)

SnoJob,

I think John figured it as $500 divided by 25 tons = $20 a ton. I took it the same way myself. Thanks for the clarification.

You guys out in the Chicago area have some real cheap prices compared to us on the east coast. There is every major supplier here in the NY/NJ area, and they all are getting between $60 and $70 a ton, and that's not delivered. Now, if you buy 500 tons, you might get a break.....

~Chuck


----------



## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

HMM-

Makes no sense to me that in Maine salt is $40 a ton or so and it is at least half again as much in NY/NJ and everywhere else on the east coast. 

Maybe Geoff is a member of the salt mafia? Maybe he is not honest about salt prices? (Just kidding) Maybe Geoff hooked up one of those big Ford trucks and pulled Maine inland, so as not to be located on the east coast any longer?

I am being funny to illustrate my point. Geoff is on the east coast and buying salt for less $$$ than many others in the same basic geographic area of the country. Others say it is impossible, but Geoff is doing it.


----------



## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Hi, SnoJob. I too got quoted $42/ton out of Portland for salt and I'm too small to get any price breaks. The salt mafia has never even heard of me and hopefully has no interest in me. I think that ($42) was from a storage facility at the dock. Now, if you have to pay freight to Vermont, that's where the $70 something a ton comes from. I'd also have to figure what it would cost to have it trucked even the 50 miles to me from Portland.


----------



## Chuck Smith (Dec 30, 1999)

Mick, I seem to recall you posting that you are the only guy in town with a sander. I think that has something to do with how cheap salt is up there. That and these other facts......

Maine Land area - 30,862 square miles
Maine Persons per square mile - 41.3 (2000 Census)
Has a major seaport.

Illinois Land area - 55,584 square miles 
Ilinois Persons per square mile - 223.4 (2000 Census)
Has a major seaport.

Vermont Land area - 9,250 square miles 
Vermont Persons per square mile - 65.8 (2000 Census)
Has NO major seaports.

New Jersey Land area - 7,417square miles 
New Jersey Persons per square mile - 1,134 (2000 Census) 
Has the the most, and the largest seaports in the entire USA.
All the major salt suppliers are located in Newark, NJ, not in NY.

New York Land area - 47,214 square miles 
New York Persons per square mile - 401 (2000 Census)
Has several major seaports.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/

It's the old law of supply and demand. Everyone in this area (NY/NJ) uses salt. As Mick and Geoff mentioned, salt, and even sand isn't that popular in Maine. Alan can tell you he is the only one in his area using straight salt, and everyone thinks he is nuts for doing so. Sand is the standard.

I had some recent conversations with contractors in CT, and they were telling me that they don't use straight salt. They stockpile mix, but not straight salt. One of them even told me that instead of straight salt, he'd spread calcium chloride, because it costs him the same. I don't know how true that is, but that's what he said.

One good thing about NJ, is that a driveway most areas of the US would get $15 to plow, we get $60 - $100 for. Parking lots that guys plow for $40 in most areas, we get $250+ for.

The drawbacks are many too though, the same liability insurance that costs a few hundred in most areas, costs thousands here.

You name it, and here it costs more.

~Chuck


----------



## Taconic (May 18, 2001)

tHANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION SNOJOB THAT IS HOW I READ YOUR THREAD 500 DIVIDED BY 25 TONS AND THATS WHAT I THOUGHT YOU MEANT.i STAND BY THE REST THOUGH WHICH IS THAT SALT HERE IN SOUTHERN N.Y. IS MUCH HIGHER THAN Inland and i apologize for the caps as i just looked up and see i used caps ,no yelling here just lazy and to tired to change it.Hope you dont mind again sorry for the caps.


----------



## plowjockey (Dec 3, 2000)

I for one am totally offended by the caps. Jailer Flog That MAN!!!! LOL Really though why do they put that darn caps button so easy to accidentally hit? 
Here in the Dayton Ohio area if you talk about sanding people look at you like you're nuts. I, myself like the idea of the grip provided by the sand but what do I know around here.

Bruce


----------



## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

Ahh, there is some explanation (sand use more common in some areas). I have wondered about a salt and sand mix. Nobody here besides DOT seems to use much sand. Of course, many contractors don't use salt, either. 

Well, that is another thread topic.


----------



## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

www.cargillsalt.com
Not very much info but at least you can read about their deicers.
And I was quoted 65.75 for treated salt from INTL salt co out of New Haven.
Dino


----------



## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

Dino:

Thank you for illustrating my point! You are paying less for treated salt than others in your vicinity pay for plain salt. Thanks additionally for the information. 

Am I to assume you are going to be using the treated salt in place of magic -0 treated salt? (similar ingredients) I'll gladly pay the extra for treated salt if they make it available to me in our market. I think I'd play heck trying to find someone to treat my salt pile, so this may be just the solution I seek.


----------



## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

Yes, if the performance is comparable, then I see no reason to jump through all the hoops of buying plain salt , and then lining up machine time and someone to spray the salt.
As far as pricing goes, if Alans says that salt will cost him 72 a ton, why dispute him. He has no benifit or gain from telling stories about salt pricng.
My salt is dock side, his salt needs to be trucked 3-4 hrs north of me. So a 47 a ton price for me dockside may in fact cost another 30 by time it reaches him. The trucking co makes some money, and the smaller retailer takes a cut. To many hands in the pot will make any product expensive.
Dino


----------



## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

Dino: 
No dipute, here. I'm sure Alan pays just what he says. I'm thankful I can buy mine cheaper. I have many choices of suppliers. I don't buy my salt from a retailer. It will be shipped to my location and stockpiled.

Funny how price varies so much. That is all I am pointing out. * Don't accept the first quote you get! * That is the only point I have tried to make repeatedly. Make sure your price is a fair price. Not necessarily cheapest price, but the best service with the most reasonable price. Obviously, Alan feels he has found that balance.


----------



## Mick (May 19, 2001)

SnoJob - Be glad you have choices. At least in this area, balance has nothing to do with where I buy material. There is only on salt dealer and he is in Portland. Locally, there is only one dealer for salt/sand mix.


----------



## 2401 (Feb 3, 2001)

Mick - yes, "captive-market pricing"  

Same thing that makes motorcycle insurance so costly, at least around here.


----------



## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

Mick-

You have it better than Alan since his only option appears to be quite a bit pricier than yours. One choice is fine if the supply is steady and the price is right!


----------



## Alan (Mar 2, 2000)

> _Originally posted by SnoJob67 _
> *Not necessarily cheapest price, but the best service with the most reasonable price. Obviously, Alan feels he has found that balance.  *


No,, I haven't found that balance, I just don't have enough storage to buy a full years supply at once. I don't use a tremendous amount, about 65 tons, but I can only store about 12 at one time. I start the year with the bin full, I fill the tailgate hopper and vee box out of that supply and buy by the load on my dump truck with a tailgate spreader. Any that is left after a storm goes back in the bin. While the suppler does not ahve any open account privileges, I'm well enough established with them that if I should happen to get snagged in a cash flow crunch they will carry me for a week or two.

I've talked about getting salt out of Montreal, splitting a tandem load with a buddy. Lots cheaper, but if I did that I would be pretty hesitant to go to the local supplier for my odd loads during the winter.

I know we're getting porked, but with only one source for us little guys they kinda put the shaft to us. If we had another supplier within any close range it might make a dramatic difference in what we pay.


----------

