# Duramax 06-07 LBZ



## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

I have it cemented into my mind that I want to upgrade from the 2005 6.0 gas GM truck I have now to a similar truck with a Duramax. After some extensive research the 06-07's with the LBZ motor seem to be the wise choice. I can't afford anything much newer than that anyway. I'm also quite sure I want to step up from the regular cab to the extended cab, momma and I have taken pretty heavily to going to auctions and garage sales ya know.

Other than the LBZ, what would be the next best choice if I can't find one?

Living in the rust belt of Maine, would I be better served getting a southern truck or maybe a western one? Where I'm looking for trucks that will be 5-6 years old, I wouldn't mind starting out rust free.

I'd like to stick with the 3500 series, but I rarely see any with the Duramax and the extended cab? I suppose the 2500HD trucks are nearly identical to the 3500 SRW anyhow.

Another issue is liquidating the rig I have now. It's in damn good shape and has been problem free, but it's got 295,000 on the ticker. It really has no rust to speak of, runs like a top, cleans up real perty and is the 3500 version with SRW's. I picture some young wippersnapper buying it for it's looks and not worrying much about the miles.

I just got the EZ V all mounted for this winter, so I'll probably make the move in April of this coming spring. Perhaps fly out to Arizona and drive me home a Duramax.


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## NoFearDeere (Nov 7, 2005)

You will have to look fairly hard to find a extended cab 3500, and they all come with the long bed before 2011. The LBZ is a good motor, LLY's are excellent. Check out www.rundechevrolet.com they are an awesome dealership and have alot of trucks go thru their lot and assist with shipping. Good Luck


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

How is a lly better then the lbz?


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

Thanx for the link. Looks like the 3500 is off the wish list, I don't like the overall length of the extended cabs with the long box.

I really should do some more homework and consider Dodge and Ford. I want to avoid the motors that were considered "problem years". Towing a firewood trailer and plowing are my two main businesses, the trailer can weigh up to 14,000 lbs loaded and I run a pretty heavy V Plow. Cost is a consideration, but I do have some wiggle room with that. It looks like a 2500HD with the diesel can tow up to 12,000 lbs. The GM front end really is a P.I.T.A. when it comes to a heavy plow, I'm tired of that problem.


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

Triple L;1372298 said:


> How is a lly better then the lbz?


I wondered about that too, all the research I did pointed directly to the LBZ being the best choice hands down.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Moss Man;1372313 said:


> Thanx for the link. Looks like the 3500 is off the wish list, I don't like the overall length of the extended cabs with the long box.
> 
> I really should do some more homework and consider Dodge and Ford. I want to avoid the motors that were considered "problem years". Towing a firewood trailer and plowing are my two main businesses, the trailer can weigh up to 14,000 lbs loaded and I run a pretty heavy V Plow. Cost is a consideration, but I do have some wiggle room with that. It looks like a 2500HD with the diesel can tow up to 12,000 lbs. The GM front end really is a P.I.T.A. when it comes to a heavy plow, I'm tired of that problem.


12K would be a walk thru the park for a duramax, 2500hd or 3500 dosent matter other then the 800 lbs gvwr between the 2... 3500srw that is...

There is no PITA with a gm front end, turn the torsiom bars up and be done with it... Atleast your not rebuilding it every other year for a couple grand like a solid front axle...

Nothing beats the allison trans


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Moss Man;1372318 said:


> I wondered about that too, all the research I did pointed directly to the LBZ being the best choice hands down.


Exactly, I have an lly and with it was an lbz all the time... Got an lmm and kinda like that one except the fuel economy until warranty is up...


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## jkski (Dec 29, 2010)

I own an 06 LBZ CrewCab Shortbed GMC with an 8.5' Meyer SV2 and love it. The LBZ is the most desired of the 2 available because it offers a little more HP and they had some reliability issues with the LLY, specifically the injectors.

The Dmax/Allison combo is great and your fuel mileage will be better than the 6.0 gas, but you do pay more diesel these days and when coupled with the increased cost of maintenance (oil change can be $100), your possible gains can turn into losses. If you buy the truck right you should be fine, but if you were purchasing new, the upcharge for a Dmax is around $8k-$10k....most people will never recover that.
Hope this helps.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Mossman--I have a 2006 EC 3500 SRW with a 8' bed.I can't help it if you don't like the looks of a long bed but I can assure you that you would have trouble finding a better combo for both plowing and trailering as I do both.I have some serious azz weight from my Boss 9-2 er V plow,with my T bars cranked up 4 turns and with Air Ride bumpers, my truck handles it fine.Going from an old 88 V30 gas job[350],on the same 8 hr. plowing route,I use half the amount of fuel now and with lots of more serious azz power to boot.134K miles now on my LBZ,I swear it seems it runs better now than when new.I've had a LB7,LLY,and now my LBZ--all excellent but this LBZ is something else.Good luck shopping and don't forget to look at the heavy equipment auctions as sometimes there are some good trucks to be found there.


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## NoFearDeere (Nov 7, 2005)

Tell you the truth, you wont find a bad Duramax motor. Whether its a LB7, LLY, LBZ, LMM, whatever. Yes the LB7's had injector issues but still good motors. As far as the front ends go, I put more money into Ford and Dodge front ends than I ever do in a GM. And I always overload the front ends.


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## Greenery (Jun 23, 2007)

Wasn't the lbz the first to be paired with the 6 speed Allison? 
Or did the lly also have it.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

lly has the 5 speed allison


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## BoyneCityGuy (May 7, 2009)

First of all, best of luck in your search! I have an LBZ and really couldn't be happier. Paired with the 6sp Allison it is unstoppable. Take a look at Lenz truck center in WI, lenzauto.com. Thats where i got mine and they were really easy to deal with. Great selection of trucks and fair trade in prices. Not necessarily the cheapest, but good clean trucks for the money, so in my book it was a good value. I know they ship all over too if you wanted to go that route. My LBZ is a towing machine, its too big to do the plowing i need, but i will certainly be buying a shorter SRW DMAX to plow with in the near future, and I will be looking very hard to get another LBZ. No emissions junk, higher HP, no significant injector issues...pretty hard to beat in my book! Best of luck!


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

I don't understand why the LBZ is the best duramax. What is this based on? The best motor to turn into a drag truck. Who is doing that? People are buying them to work and all the duramax motors will do some serious work. The LB7 does have a known injector problem. But I think to many people that never had diesels before bought them. They never changed the fuel filter and I think that caused many of the injector problems. Just my opinion 

Lenz Truck Center in WI is a big dealer in chevy 2500's. And they will ship.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

mossman381;1372810 said:


> I don't understand why the LBZ is the best duramax. What is this based on? The best motor to turn into a drag truck. Who is doing that? People are buying them to work and all the duramax motors will do some serious work. The LB7 does have a known injector problem. But I think to many people that never had diesels before bought them. They never changed the fuel filter and I think that caused many of the injector problems. Just my opinion
> 
> Lenz Truck Center in WI is a big dealer in chevy 2500's. And they will ship.


Improved,almost bulletproof injectors,improved head gaskets,more H.P.,more torque,better turbo,all coupled to now the new improved 6 speed Ally and all with minimal emission crap.That's basically why. As for your fuel filter assertion--complete nonsense--I for one have always changed my fuel filters every 12-15K miles and my injectors went South at app.30K miles.Even GM has admitted there wete serious flaws on the prototype.


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

tuney443;1373119 said:


> Improved,almost bulletproof injectors,improved head gaskets,more H.P.,more torque,better turbo,all coupled to now the new improved 6 speed Ally and all with minimal emission crap.That's basically why. As for your fuel filter assertion--complete nonsense--I for one have always changed my fuel filters every 12-15K miles and my injectors went South at app.30K miles.Even GM has admitted there wete serious flaws on the prototype.


Can you tell me what flaw GM has admitted to? My dad has an LB7 with 160k with no injector problems. My 02 has not had the injectors changed at 176k. You can go on diesel place and find many LB7's with over 200k with original injectors.


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## 87chevy (Mar 11, 2009)

All D-max's are good. Ive got a friend with an LB7 that doesnt have a glow plug relay, and it starts, not wonderful but it starts, when its down in the single digits like it has been here all week (damn clear skies). The thing that makes the LBZ look better is the 50 extra horse and the 6 speed. The 6 speed can be done for 2-3 grand in an older truck and EFILive can take care of that 50 horse. or 150 horse


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## NoFearDeere (Nov 7, 2005)

mossman381;1373247 said:


> Can you tell me what flaw GM has admitted to? My dad has an LB7 with 160k with no injector problems. My 02 has not had the injectors changed at 176k. You can go on diesel place and find many LB7's with over 200k with original injectors.


Very true. My buddy has an 02 LB7 with 230K, all original. The injector issue in the LB7's is the only problems ive ever heard of with the Duramax. Truely awesome motors.


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## DuraBird02 (Oct 26, 2011)

I have a 2002 lb7 duramax and it is an awesome truck/engine. Wouldn't trade it for anything!


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

I have a friend with an 02 LB7 with a programmer of some kind and the thing is a bullet on wheels.

If I do find and purchase a stock LBZ in the spring, what the first no nonsense thing to add for performance?


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

mossman381;1373247 said:


> Can you tell me what flaw GM has admitted to? My dad has an LB7 with 160k with no injector problems. My 02 has not had the injectors changed at 176k. You can go on diesel place and find many LB7's with over 200k with original injectors.


this summer i had all new glow plugs installed at gms expense....2003 LB7, 165000mi.....


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

mossman381;1373247 said:


> Can you tell me what flaw GM has admitted to? My dad has an LB7 with 160k with no injector problems. My 02 has not had the injectors changed at 176k. You can go on diesel place and find many LB7's with over 200k with original injectors.


I thought it was clear--injectors. While you and Dad have enjoyed trouble free ones, most have not.GM has acknowledged this repeatedly

.


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

tuney443;1374216 said:


> I thought it was clear--injectors. While you and Dad have enjoyed trouble free ones, most have not.GM has acknowledged this repeatedly.


I am not going to argue with you about this. The injectors were not the problem. It is water and dirt getting to the injectors that cause them to go bad. How does that happen. When people don't change the filter enough. GM should have put a pre-filter on them and there would have most likley never been a problem.


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## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

LBZ's a GREAT Engine! I bought my '06 with the LBZ/6 Speed Allison tranny last June- have put 35K miles on it since (at 112K now), and (knock on wood) it's been pretty much trouble free (needed one glow plug so far, and a MAF sensor modification but aside from that, it's been awesome! (knock on wood).

I've got an '03 with the 6.0L V8 Gas, and compared to the Duramax, the Dmax handles 14K lbs like it's nothing back there..... also- if you're concerned about the 2500HD versus 3500SRW, just add airbags to the rear of a 2500HD, and it'll handle any trailer no problem 

Best of luck finding an LBZ- they're great trucks!


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

I'm not too worried about the extra up front cost, that is what it is because of the market. The maintenance costs make me a bit nervous, but that's the reason I want to get the engine choice right before I make a move. My friend that has the LB7 had to replace his injectors and pump at 150,000 miles and just the parts alone ran close to 5 grand, I'd have a bit of a problem coming up with that much on short notice.

I'd be interested in some kind of a tune if I get one, especially if the deal on the truck is good enough.

How much of an increase does an exhaust mod give? Say from the muffler back?


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

Moss Man;1374673 said:


> I'm not too worried about the extra up front cost, that is what it is because of the market. The maintenance costs make me a bit nervous, but that's the reason I want to get the engine choice right before I make a move. My friend that has the LB7 had to replace his injectors and pump at 150,000 miles and just the parts alone ran close to 5 grand, I'd have a bit of a problem coming up with that much on short notice.
> 
> I'd be interested in some kind of a tune if I get one, especially if the deal on the truck is good enough.
> 
> How much of an increase does an exhaust mod give? Say from the muffler back?


I hear you. If you can get the LBZ and want it then you should get one. The exhaust does not give you that much more power. Main reason for an exhaust is sound. You could get a tuner but really I don't think you need to. The LBZ has 360hp. All the guys that I have talked to say the power is more than enough stock.


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

mossman381;1375028 said:


> I hear you. If you can get the LBZ and want it then you should get one. The exhaust does not give you that much more power. Main reason for an exhaust is sound. You could get a tuner but really I don't think you need to. The LBZ has 360hp. All the guys that I have talked to say the power is more than enough stock.


If a good clean LB7 comes along that has been well cared for and has already had the pump and injectors replaced, I'd be more than happy at that level. With a few mods the LB7 would be right there in the same power range at the LBZ stock.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

mossman381;1375028 said:


> I hear you. If you can get the LBZ and want it then you should get one. The exhaust does not give you that much more power. * Main reason for an exhaust is sound.* You could get a tuner but really I don't think you need to. The LBZ has 360hp. All the guys that I have talked to say the power is more than enough stock.


Not really. If the turbo can't breathe, it is like trying to breathe threw a straw. If you are pulling heavy at a grade, and the exuast is not letting the turbo breathe, you will melt the turbo. Stock you should never have a problem, but if you tune it, and keep a stock exuast, you will need to watch your EGT's they will get hot.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Every year has their problems.

LB7's got a bad rap for the injectors going bad. But a rebuilt set of sticks are obtainable for around $1500. You are able to pick up these LB7's with over 200,000 miles on them for pennies on the dollar with injector issues. Throw a set of sticks in and you have a truck that in 8 hours of work is worth double what you paid for it. 

LLY's have got a bad name for the EGR and reluctor wheel (very common in 2005 's with about 150,000 on the clock) . Do not rule these trucks out on injectors though. I have done a few sets of these two. More common again on 200,000+ mile trucks.


LBZ's have the transmission cooler lines leaking, glow plugs, and an EGR every now and then. I have not had the chance to see how these trucks are around 200,000+ mile trucks. Who knows, they may show with their own nasty problems when more and more of these trucks make it to the 200,000+ mile club.


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## woodchuck2 (Dec 4, 2010)

Philbilly2;1375831 said:


> Every year has their problems.
> 
> LB7's got a bad rap for the injectors going bad. But a rebuilt set of sticks are obtainable for around $1500. You are able to pick up these LB7's with over 200,000 miles on them for pennies on the dollar with injector issues. Throw a set of sticks in and you have a truck that in 8 hours of work is worth double what you paid for it.
> 
> ...


X2, well said IMO. I have owned two of the LBZ's and loved them. One i still have which is running a 85hp tune all the time. I tow almost every day, this will be the 6th year plowing with it and i have had very few issues with it. This truck gets worked and i do beat on it occasionally doing burnouts and racing other friends. This truck by the way will hold its own against a Pontiac trans am firehawk with mods. I have raced a Silverado SS with mods and ate that truck up, mustangs are fun to play with, ricers have no chance at all.


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

I have replaced 1 glow plug and I broke my lumbar support (dealer covered, GM cert. used extended warranty  ) but in the nearly 30k I put on my LBZ ast year I have been nothing more than thriled with its performance and wouldn't hesitate to buy another.


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

The LB7's definitely have injector issues and it has nothing to do with not changing the fuel filter...I run a 2003 that had injectors done at 40K and just 2 weeks ago at 116K. I change the fuel filter every 6k miles. That being said they are great trucks with plenty of power. They have the least amount of emissions equipment and seem to get the best MPG.


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## ATouchofGrass (Jan 15, 2008)

tuney443;1373119 said:


> Improved,almost bulletproof injectors,improved head gaskets,more H.P.,more torque,better turbo,all coupled to now the new improved 6 speed Ally and all with minimal emission crap.That's basically why. As for your fuel filter assertion--complete nonsense--I for one have always changed my fuel filters every 12-15K miles and my injectors went South at app.30K miles.Even GM has admitted there wete serious flaws on the prototype.


Okay, their is NO bullet proof injector. The biggest flaw for the lbz's were their glow plugs and injectors. LLY's had minimal injector failures but made up for their grade B head gaskets that the lb7's have as well. If it were me, LLY is the way to go. I don't like those aluminum rods whatsoever...


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

ATouchofGrass;1376162 said:


> Okay, their is NO bullet proof injector. The biggest flaw for the lbz's were their glow plugs and injectors. LLY's had minimal injector failures but made up for their grade B head gaskets that the lb7's have as well. If it were me, LLY is the way to go. I don't like those aluminum rods whatsoever...


Yeah, I'm just trying to narrow it down to the most practical one for me, I don't have a huge slush fund for repairs. I also want the most power available for my dollar as I can't afford a new one.


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## ATouchofGrass (Jan 15, 2008)

Oh i hear ya there! I just put 8 injectors, head gaskets/ arp studs, water pump, thermostats in our lb7 as it had blown its head gaskets at the beginning of the fall. My buddy [email protected] Creatures of the Night Performance hooked me up on all the parts at a great price! Thankfully, i did all the work myself along with my brother, so that helped with the costs!


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## cubanb343 (Dec 13, 2007)

I feel that you cannot go wrong with any of the dmaxes. Each has their own pros and cons. You will pay a bit more for an LBZ now because the demand for them is a little higher. I've had the tranny lines leak, a glow plug replaced, and an EGR issue. I'd say the worst part of mine is the EGR system. The LB7s don't have it. Good luck with your search


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

ATouchofGrass;1376162 said:


> Okay, their is NO bullet proof injector. The biggest flaw for the lbz's were their glow plugs and injectors. LLY's had minimal injector failures but made up for their grade B head gaskets that the lb7's have as well. If it were me, LLY is the way to go. I don't like those aluminum rods whatsoever...


If you're going to quote me,please do it correctly.I said ''almost bullet proof'',which is quite true.I have forum friends at the DP with 300K on the clock--ORIGINAL INJECTORS.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

graystonelbz;1375958 said:


> The LB7's definitely have injector issues and it has nothing to do with not changing the fuel filter...I run a 2003 that had injectors done at 40K and just 2 weeks ago at 116K. I change the fuel filter every 6k miles. That being said they are great trucks with plenty of power. They have the least amount of emissions equipment and seem to get the best MPG.


Agreed,that's what I've been saying but the OP still thinks it's filtering.I don't remember stuttering--it is a bonafide fact that LB7 injectors don't last long.I've had numerous discussions with GM engineers at car shows and my local service dept. and they will tell you this is a known flaw.


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

I really like the looks of this one, but I'm not quite positioned right to make the move right now;

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/2701416484.html


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

tuney443;1377652 said:


> Agreed,that's what I've been saying but the OP still thinks it's filtering.I don't remember stuttering--it is a bonafide fact that LB7 injectors don't last long.I've had numerous discussions with GM engineers at car shows and my local service dept. and they will tell you this is a known flaw.


The OP is Moss Man. He said nothing about the filter being the problem. I said that. So what you are saying is the GM engineers said that Bosch made bad injectors? He must be right then. After all he is a GM engineer


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

mossman381;1377740 said:


> The OP is Moss Man. He said nothing about the filter being the problem. I said that. So what you are saying is the GM engineers said that Bosch made bad injectors? He must be right then. After all he is a GM engineer


Look bud, LB7's are great, but they have known injector issues. I think you are taking it a bit to personally because you have one. I luv the 03 LB7 that I plow with. but it has had sticks twice in 116 miles


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

graystonelbz;1377793 said:


> Look bud, LB7's are great, but they have known injector issues. I think you are taking it a bit to personally because you have one. I luv the 03 LB7 that I plow with. but it has had sticks twice in 116 miles


I am not taking anything personal. You can believe whatever you want. I don't really care. Just trying to share some knowledge about the problem. Most people are terrified of the LB7 injector issue but really know nothing about what causes it. Injectors don't just go bad for no reason. Dirty fuel is the problem.

I am curious what do you think causes the problem?


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## ATouchofGrass (Jan 15, 2008)

tuney443;1377646 said:


> If you're going to quote me,please do it correctly.I said ''almost bullet proof'',which is quite true.I have forum friends at the DP with 300K on the clock--ORIGINAL INJECTORS.


I did mean to quote you and make fun or bash you. That is true, i also know a few guys that have 255k on stock lb7 injectors. It's all in climate, fuel quality and how you maintain your vehicle. Simple fix to the sh!tty lb7 design is throwing silicone around the injector feed lines where they go into the valve covers. Prevents debris, water and other materials in.


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

ATouchofGrass;1377844 said:


> I did mean to quote you and make fun or bash you. That is true, i also know a few guys that have 255k on stock lb7 injectors. It's all in climate, fuel quality and how you maintain your vehicle. Simple fix to the sh!tty lb7 design is throwing silicone around the injector feed lines where they go into the valve covers. Prevents debris, water and other materials in.


What is the CAT filter that you are running on your 02?


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

mossman381;1377822 said:


> I am not taking anything personal. You can believe whatever you want. I don't really care. Just trying to share some knowledge about the problem. Most people are terrified of the LB7 injector issue but really know nothing about what causes it. Injectors don't just go bad for no reason. Dirty fuel is the problem.
> 
> I am curious what do you think causes the problem?


so dirty fuel rears its head every 80 or 100,00 miles? Its a design flaw not dirty fuel bud. You sound really silly claiming LB7 injectors go out because of dirty fuel. I suppose chevrolet extended the warranty to 7 years and 200,00 miles on the LB7 injectors because of all that dirty fuel out there huh....get a clue


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

graystonelbz;1377848 said:


> so dirty fuel rears its head every 80 or 100,00 miles? Its a design flaw not dirty fuel bud. You sound really silly claiming LB7 injectors go out because of dirty fuel. I suppose chevrolet extended the warranty to 7 years and 200,00 miles on the LB7 injectors because of all that dirty fuel out there huh....get a clue


What is the design flaw? How do the injectors go bad then? The LB7 fairy?


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

mossman381;1377852 said:


> What is the design flaw? How do the injectors go bad then? The LB7 fairy?


RPO LB7 (engine code "1") was first introduced in 2001 and continued until mid 2004. It is a 32-valve design with high-pressure common-rail direct injection and a experimental composite design cylinder head. The most problematic issue with the LB7 is injector failure. Fuel leaked and entered the crankcase, causing oil dilution. Early on customers came forward complaining of severe overheating, and also in some situations blown head gaskets. Initially GM denied it was a problem, but after being sued by a consumer group, GM relented and included overheating and blown head gaskets as a warranted item. GM issued a warranty for this after the fact for injectors, which now have 7 year/200,000 mile coverage. The following trucks use the LB7:


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

mossman381;1377852 said:


> What is the design flaw? How do the injectors go bad then? The LB7 fairy?


you have to get ahold of gm for that technical info....gm wouldnt have extended the warranty on them if there wasnt a problem ....especially at about 4,600 per dealer installed set. You should know a little more about the truck you drive before you go shooting your mouth off


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

graystonelbz;1377853 said:


> RPO LB7 (engine code "1") was first introduced in 2001 and continued until mid 2004. It is a 32-valve design with high-pressure common-rail direct injection and a experimental composite design cylinder head. The most problematic issue with the LB7 is injector failure. Fuel leaked and entered the crankcase, causing oil dilution. Early on customers came forward complaining of severe overheating, and also in some situations blown head gaskets. Initially GM denied it was a problem, but after being sued by a consumer group, GM relented and included overheating and blown head gaskets as a warranted item. GM issued a warranty for this after the fact for injectors, which now have 7 year/200,000 mile coverage. The following trucks use the LB7:


From what I have read the LLY is the same engine design except they redesigned the valve covers so you don't have to take them off to change injectors. I hope the LB7 fairy doesn't wave her wand over my truck


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

mossman381;1377857 said:


> From what I have read the LLY is the same engine design except they redesigned the valve covers so you don't have to take them off to change injectors. I hope the LB7 fairy doesn't wave her wand over my truck [/QUOTE
> 
> yea well i hope not too...i don't wish bad things upon anybody bud, but facts are facts. And telling this guy that ijector failure is caused by dirty fuel is inaccurate and just plain dumb.


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

graystonelbz;1377858 said:


> yea well i hope not too...i don't wish bad things upon anybody bud, but facts are facts. And telling this guy that ijector failure is caused by dirty fuel is inaccurate and just plain dumb.


Yeah whatever man.

Good info right here not just for the LB7 guy. http://nicktane.com/osc/product_info.php?products_id=51


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

A lot of good info here http://nicktane.com/images/HDT_article_10-10-03.pdf

Interesting, that was written in 2003.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

mossman381;1377861 said:


> Yeah whatever man.
> 
> Good info right here not just for the LB7 guy. http://nicktane.com/osc/product_info.php?products_id=51


Let me get this right... you are getting your info from someone who is trying to sell a product??? I am not saying that Nick is not educated on Duramaxs...(hell I run those cat filter adapters of his in all my trucks) but come on.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

mossman381;1377857 said:


> From what I have read the LLY is the same engine design except they redesigned the valve covers so you don't have to take them off to change injectors. I hope the LB7 fairy doesn't wave her wand over my truck


Motors aren't the same bud. You forgot the VVT and the EGR and mouthpiece and the heads and the software tables in the ECM on an LB7 to an LLY is totally different.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

If you really want to hear somthing that will boggle your mind. On my previous LB7's and one of them that I have now, I dump used motor oil into the diesel fuel. On my 03 I was running 4 gallons of used 15w40 out of tractors blended with 20 gallons of diesel. STOCK fuel filter. The guy who owns that truck now is till on the orignal factory injectors at 187,000 miles. He still runs oil threw it and the ballance rates are still spot on.

Sounds dumb right? But when you run the balance rates on the truck they look better than the rates that were comming out on the new trucks of that era. 

These LB7 generation trucks were built in a time that we were using higher than 500ppm fuel. The fuel that we are forced to buy at the pump is now less than 15ppm to run in the new DPF trucks. IMHO when you look at how an bosch injector actually works, you add the fact of very low lubicity in the fuel, I believe the problem inlies there. I might be wrong, but I haven't had a set of LB7 injectors go out while I have owned to prove my theory wrong... and neither have the 100's of guys that have the same theory that I have and are doing the same thing to keep their LB7's running longer.


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

Philbilly2;1377866 said:


> Let me get this right... you are getting your info from someone who is trying to sell a product??? I am not saying that Nick is not educated on Duramaxs...(hell I run those cat filter adapters of his in all my trucks) but come on.


I guess you missed the HDT truck article. Maybe too much reading and not enough pictures.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

mossman381;1377885 said:


> I guess you missed the HDT truck article. Maybe too much reading and not enough pictures.


It makes sence. Stock fuel filter is a 10 micron and Cat filters are a 2 micron. But what exactly is that chart proving? That the fuel is cleaner? So what? You are still listening to a person trying to sell you somthing telling you that cleaner fuel saves injectors. No one has proven that.

I'm sure that if I wanted to sell fuel, I can find a chart that shows that somewhere saying that if you drive full throttle all the time will make your injectors last longer.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

mossman381;1377885 said:


> I guess you missed the HDT truck article. Maybe too much reading and not enough pictures.


By they way... that was a good jab. It made me spit a little coffee on the counter. :laughing:


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

Philbilly2;1377891 said:


> It makes sence. Stock fuel filter is a 10 micron and Cat filters are a 2 micron. But what exactly is that chart proving? That the fuel is cleaner? So what? You are still listening to a person trying to sell you somthing telling you that cleaner fuel saves injectors. No one has proven that.
> 
> I'm sure that if I wanted to sell fuel, I can find a chart that shows that somewhere saying that if you drive full throttle all the time will make your injectors last longer.


So you are running his filters but you don't believe him 

Read this one http://nicktane.com/images/HDT_article_10-10-03.pdf


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

Philbilly2;1377875 said:


> Motors aren't the same bud. You forgot the VVT and the EGR and mouthpiece and the heads and the software tables in the ECM on an LB7 to an LLY is totally different.


Really, I thought the LB7 and the LLY where the exact same motor, turbo, everything


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

mossman381;1377897 said:


> So you are running his filters but you don't believe him
> 
> Read this one http://nicktane.com/images/HDT_article_10-10-03.pdf


No, I don't care about what he says. I am running it to get the cheaper filter.

When it comes to fuel filters I dont run Autozone cheapy filters. I have only run Delco Stock fitlers. If one falls apart on you... you got a new world of problems. Delco filters are now over $50 a pop. Not to mention the WIF sensors that go to hell and just create problems. If you have one of those go bad, now you are spending another $40 bucks for a plug or even more if you get a new one.

CAT is a well known quality product that you can get a whole case of the filters that fit that Nick's adapter head for around $120. so at around $10 a filter. it only takes me 3 filter changes to recover both the cost of the filter adapter head, and the filter. Multiply that across all the trucks running the same filter. It doesnt take long for it to add up money wise.


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

I like it when the serious debates start, I get more detailed info when you guys post up the issues and how they are solved. I'm still quite sure I'll be taking the extra time to find a decent LBZ or saving more pennies and stepping up to the 2007.5-2009............unless the masses recommend I stay away from those?


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

mossman381;1377861 said:


> Yeah whatever man.
> 
> Good info right here not just for the LB7 guy. http://nicktane.com/osc/product_info.php?products_id=51


you clearly have your head up your a**


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## cubanb343 (Dec 13, 2007)

Moss Man;1377942 said:


> I like it when the serious debates start, I get more detailed info when you guys post up the issues and how they are solved. I'm still quite sure I'll be taking the extra time to find a decent LBZ or saving more pennies and stepping up to the 2007.5-2009............unless the masses recommend I stay away from those?


Hard to believe there are TWO moss mans. Anyhow, Mossman #1, you won't hear much bad about the 2007.5-2009s as they are similar to the LBZ but have the DPF added. I would guess you could straight pipe the whole thing and block all the codes with a tuner and you'd have yourself a new style LBZ. You may even find an LMM cheaper than an LBZ due to the high demand.

Mossman #2, yours not needing injectors is a great thing for you. But many of those motors have had the problem. The two guys in town I personally know with LB7's had their injectors replaced. Dirty fuel may have played a part in it, but i've heard the bodies on the injector itself would crack. Your truck is sweet and I'm glad you joined the duramax club after getting rid of that 6.0.


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## cubanb343 (Dec 13, 2007)

graystonelbz;1378046 said:


> you clearly have your head up your a**


Graystone have you had any issues with your LBZ yet like the EGR, glow plug, tranny lines? I've been through all 3 already. Tranny lines are wet again too


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

cubanb343;1378093 said:


> Graystone have you had any issues with your LBZ yet like the EGR, glow plug, tranny lines? I've been through all 3 already. Tranny lines are wet again too


I haven't had any issues other than a TCM program update when it was close to new. Had something to do with the high idle function for winter use and not warming the trans up properly. No problems at all otherwise. Is your LBZ 06 or 07? This has been the best truck Ive owned to date. I bought it right when the LMMs were coming out so i could get the last of the pre DPF trucks. The new LMMs and LML's are stout trucks even with the emmissions equipment, but alot spendier too. I have absolutely nothing against LB7's, and even plow with one, but no one is gonna tell me dirty fuel is the culprit for injector issues.


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

shouldve read your sig....i see its an 07 as well


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

oh and i had the iss steeering shaft and bearing replaced under warranty also, but they needed replaced on my 01 and 04 2500 HD's as well. Thats another issue that im sure never existed with mossman's dually lol


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

Moss Man;1377942 said:


> I like it when the serious debates start, I get more detailed info when you guys post up the issues and how they are solved. I'm still quite sure I'll be taking the extra time to find a decent LBZ or saving more pennies and stepping up to the 2007.5-2009............unless the masses recommend I stay away from those?


I would stay away from 01-04 LB7's if you are afraid of maint costs. Some injectors last longer than others, but its a crapshoot at best and injectors are expensive no mattter how you shake it. The 04.5 and 05 LLY's are an animal of there own but some have reported overheating issues when towing. there are some aftermarket solutions for this, but i would tend to stay away from them as well if money isnt an issue. The 2006 LLY is basically a detuned LBZ and also has a six speed, but don't confuse the 2006 LLY with the 04.5-05 LLY, they are not the same. your best bet would be a 2006 or newer.


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## cubanb343 (Dec 13, 2007)

graystonelbz;1378151 said:


> I would stay away from 01-04 LB7's if you are afraid of maint costs. Some injectors last longer than others, but its a crapshoot at best and injectors are expensive no mattter how you shake it. The 04.5 and 05 LLY's are an animal of there own but some have reported overheating issues when towing. there are some aftermarket solutions for this, but i would tend to stay away from them as well if money isnt an issue. The 2006 LLY is basically a detuned LBZ and also has a six speed, but don't confuse the 2006 LLY with the 04.5-05 LLY, they are not the same. your best bet would be a 2006 or newer.


I agree with everything you just said. I also had the steering shaft fixed under warranty. I guess we both got hit by the LBZ ISS fairy. And i also bought mine near the end of 06 to avoid the DPF's. The new LML's are awesome but pricey for sure. I plan on keeping mine another 10 years if i can. If i were looking for another truck, I'd be looking for an LBZ no doubt about it.

I paid around 32 for mine back in 06, same truck new today costs 54 or more (same options).


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

cubanb343;1378200 said:


> I agree with everything you just said. I also had the steering shaft fixed under warranty. I guess we both got hit by the LBZ ISS fairy. And i also bought mine near the end of 06 to avoid the DPF's. The new LML's are awesome but pricey for sure. I plan on keeping mine another 10 years if i can. If i were looking for another truck, I'd be looking for an LBZ no doubt about it.
> 
> I paid around 32 for mine back in 06, same truck new today costs 54 or more (same options).


yea its nice talking to someone that isnt too bias to be realistic...lol.. i plan on keeoing my lbz for many years to come, thats why it hasnt even seen a plow yet


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## cubanb343 (Dec 13, 2007)

mine will see a much reduced snow plowing role. I have been working more in the winters at my other job now so I can't plow all that much. I also just replaced the idler arm and pitman arm, surely hanging the plow on it contributed to that some.


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

i did the cognito pitman and idler arm brace kit along with tie rod sleeves at about 3,000 miles so hopefully it helps the life of those parts some


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

Moss Man;1377942 said:


> I like it when the serious debates start, I get more detailed info when you guys post up the issues and how they are solved. I'm still quite sure I'll be taking the extra time to find a decent LBZ or saving more pennies and stepping up to the 2007.5-2009............unless the masses recommend I stay away from those?


I hope you took the time to read those articles. I can see no one else has. It has some good info about dirty fuel. I am going to run one of the CAT filters ASAP.

The name calling is pretty childish. We are all adults here talking about our own opinions on the same problem. And everybody should be treated with respect.


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

:laughing:watch out for dirty fuel everyone....its all over the country , but only affects people who have 01-04 duramaxes and no other diesel engine....seriously bud give it up. No one is on your dirty fuel bandwagon


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

graystonelbz;1378488 said:


> :laughing:watch out for dirty fuel everyone....its all over the country , but only affects people who have 01-04 duramaxes and no other diesel engine....seriously bud give it up. No one is on your dirty fuel bandwagon


Did you read the articles? Maybe the design of the LB7 injectors make them more sensative to dirty fuel. Makes sense to me. If you read the article I posted you would know why CAT is making that 2 micron filter.


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## 87chevy (Mar 11, 2009)

Is anyone here even a mechanic? Like holy hell, do half of you even know what fuel contaminates will do to an injector? You're all just talking out your asses because mossman told you you're wrong so now you're butt hurt.

mossman: your theory is completely plausable, crap in the fuel will screw an injector up bad.

I think you all read too much, and don't get the real world experience. Just because someone said it on duramxforum or printed it in DieselPower doesnt mean it's the Bible.

I suppose you guys think more smoke means more power too 



Philbilly2;1377875 said:


> Motors aren't the same bud. You forgot the VVT and the EGR and mouthpiece and the heads and the software tables in the ECM on an LB7 to an LLY is totally different.


Really? You're gunna be that guy? I suppose a TBI 350 and Vortec 350 aren't the same engine either. Good Lord....


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## Newdude (Dec 4, 2006)

LB7 injectors would develop crack injector bodies over time (design/mfg flaw?). The other thing that could happen is erosion of the check ball inside (both mentioned in the injector campaign on GM service information). Dirty fuel per http://www.hdiesel.com/product.asp?id=140 seems to be the cause of the ball erosion but, the injectors still had cracking issues. Dirty fuel is not the sole culprit. The replacement injectors are redesigned to prevent further issues. Could they fail due to contamination still? Sure.


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## 87chevy (Mar 11, 2009)

There's no could, if theres contamination in an injector it WILL fail.

No ones said anything about the bodies cracking, everyone got too buttheaded when they got told they're wrong. That sounds like a design or mfg flaw like you said.

Now can we get back to giving Moss Man some advice about what truck he should buy instead of *****ing at eachother?


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

87chevy;1378787 said:


> There's no could, if theres contamination in an injector it WILL fail.
> 
> No ones said anything about the bodies cracking, everyone got too buttheaded when they got told they're wrong. That sounds like a design or mfg flaw like you said.
> 
> Now can we get back to giving Moss Man some advice about what truck he should buy instead of *****ing at eachother?


Thank you!

I was working on the current truck I have today, I really like the truck alot but would let it go for a similar one with the Duramax in a heartbeat.


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## 87chevy (Mar 11, 2009)

If you weren't so far away I'd keep an eye out around here for ya, but that would be a looong haul haha


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

87chevy;1378804 said:


> If you weren't so far away I'd keep an eye out around here for ya, but that would be a looong haul haha


Thanx! I'm not quite ready to make the move yet, I just got my current rig all set up with a V Plow for this winter and I want to see that through. My hope is to liquidate my truck in the spring after the plow season is over and start the search for the Duramax. I am not opposed to flying out to get a truck and then driving it home, so your area would be OK.
I'm still apprehensive about how my truck is going to sell with 300,000 miles on the ticker, it is in remarkable condition so perhaps it'll sell on that part.


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

Newdude;1378652 said:


> LB7 injectors would develop crack injector bodies over time (design/mfg flaw?). The other thing that could happen is erosion of the check ball inside (both mentioned in the injector campaign on GM service information). Dirty fuel per http://www.hdiesel.com/product.asp?id=140 seems to be the cause of the ball erosion but, the injectors still had cracking issues. Dirty fuel is not the sole culprit. The replacement injectors are redesigned to prevent further issues. Could they fail due to contamination still? Sure.


I never said the dirty fuel was the only cause I said I think it was the main cause.

Sorry Moss Man. I am done talking about the LB7


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## 87chevy (Mar 11, 2009)

Some high school kid'll buy it  I know cuz i used to be one of them. Sounds like you've taken excellent care of it so 300k wouldnt bother me.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Moss Man let me give you some advise on LB7 injectors... it is not a question of* if *you are going to have to replace them... but *when* you are going to have to replace them.


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## cubanb343 (Dec 13, 2007)

Philbilly2;1379063 said:


> Moss Man let me give you some advise on LB7 injectors... it is not a question of* if *you are going to have to replace them... but *when* you are going to have to replace them.


Yes sir! So bottom line here is an LBZ is still your best bet Moss man.


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## graystonelbz (Dec 19, 2007)

smart people


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

mossman381;1377740 said:


> The OP is Moss Man. He said nothing about the filter being the problem. I said that. So what you are saying is the GM engineers said that Bosch made bad injectors? He must be right then. After all he is a GM engineer


How many mossy men are on this site???? lol.Anyway you can believe whatever you want and I will do likewise.If GM however has admitted to flawed injectors,I really have no idea why you think you're right.


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2010)

If I were positioned better financially right now, I'd grab this one on a heartbeat;

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/2753664878.html


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