# Should you put additional costs that might occur into the bid



## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

When I am bidding I put everything in my bid so the client can see all costs upfront including costs that might occur.

First part is the cost either per storm or seasonal

Then the second part is this

*Additional Costs that may occur for Seasonal Service or Per Storm*

*Extra Plowing - (service call)*
If you ask us to come back the following day after we have been there and cleaned up the roadways and parking spots, there will be an additional charge for this; it will be a cost of $____ an hour, minimum 1 hour.
*
Extra Sanding for Roadways and Parking Lots - (service call)*
In the event that additional sanding is needed on non-storm days for melt off from roofs, drains, etc...
Said application will cost $______ per application

*Melt Off, Icy Conditions for sidewalks - (service call)*
Salting for icy conditions on non-storm days for melt off from roofs, drains, etc...
It will be at a cost of $______ an hour, minimum 1 hour
*
Skid steer usage for clearing and relocating snow - (service call)*
It will be at a cost of $_____ an hour, minimum time 2 hours. - (this is for the machine, plow trucks and spotters)

Any of these service calls would only be completed upon verbal orders from you or your site manager.
----------------------------------------------

Now with the exception of one place that liked to call me back 3 days or longer after a snow storm to do extra plowing, sanding, etc... none of my other places have used any service call other than the skid steer -(used to relocate snow after that last 3 foot storm we got 3 years ago and that was the only time we ended up using it at multiple places)

One of the reasons is because I go around the day after a snow storm and check every single property and make sure they are good to go, do touch ups, push back the snow if I can for the next snow storm, etc...

What I have been running into this year is I have lost at least 2 big bids because of putting in the bid the additional costs that might occur section.

I was told the other company didn't have any additional charges in their bid or service calls.

Is it me alone that does this or does anyone else charge for extra services outside a snow storm event?

I just can't see that happening that a company would go in days after a storm to work there and not get paid.

Would you go back to a place 4 days after a snow storm occurred and plow out or do sidewalks because someone cleaned their car off that had been sitting there since the storm and not charge them for your time.

Would you come in after a 3 foot snow storm using a skid steer, and two plow trucks -(one for pushing, one for spotter) for 4 to 5 hours and not charge them.

I could roll it into the pricing adding in a little bit just in case but then because I added it in and my bid is now too high.
Darned if you do and darned if don't.

Besides, I don't like charging clients for work we might not do, it's simple in my mind, we do the work, you pay us for the work.

So what you think?

Should you put all costs into the bidding and be upfront or just put the seasonal or per storm costs in the bid and leave the additional costs for the formal contract?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

As far as maintaining or maintenance, that should be included in your seasonal bid. Most customers want a One-Stop no BS extra charges. Just add in the cost for the bid.

The reason I say this is because, they want to hire you and not have to worry about property. Most of the larger property management companies have one manager that might handle several acres across several towns and they shouldn't have to go back behind you babysit them. Explain this as peace of mind.

As far as relocating, machine work, you should stand your ground.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> As far as maintaining or maintenance, that should be included in your seasonal bid. Most customers want a One-Stop no BS extra charges. Just add in the cost for the bid.
> 
> The reason I say this is because, they want to hire you and not have to worry about property. Most of the larger property management companies have one manager that might handle several acres across several towns and they shouldn't have to go back behind you babysit them. Explain this as peace of mind.
> 
> As far as relocating, machine work, you should stand your ground.


If I add in the cost then I am charging for work I many never do and I don't like charging for work unless I do it.

It's like say adding say $2,000 to the bid to cover a blizzard that might happen.

It's bad enough in my neck of the woods with low bidders and I do mean low bidders like a property that should have been around $65,000, went for $40,000
or a property that should have been around $130,000 went for $90,000.

one property that I know paid $45,000 last year and this year the winning bid was $35,000

I think some companies are in for a rude awaking when we get more snow than they think we are getting this year.


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

We factor serrvice calls in for seasonals. The only extra bill they get is salt or de icer. 

I also have a schedule of additional services for per push customers similar to what you have listed above. Skid, hauling, service call charge with minimum. We try to be up front at first so when it does happen there is no question about the billing. 

This happened last year at a small mall when several cars were parked for weeks, when moved and cleaned off there was a large section of prime parking lot with ice and snow boulders. We didn't just wait til the next storm and ram into it, we saw the cars gone and went to work to restore the lot and parking. Customer was happy didn't mind the 3 hour skid loader bill as we just cleaned up the whole property.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

MSsnowplowing said:


> If I add in the cost then I am charging for work I many never do and I don't like charging for work unless I do it.
> 
> It's like say adding say $2,000 to the bid to cover a blizzard that might happen.
> 
> ...


Have you ever heard of the line "sometimes your the windshield, sometimes your the bug?"

What happens on the year that we only get a couple of salts a month...


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Honestly I don’t get the whole charging for work you never did. That’s the wrong mentality. TouThey want a set price for “normal operations” you need to charge enough to make it worth your time to provide whatever is considered normal service. So if they have spots that will need cleaning 4 days later charge that In your price.

Don’t think of it as if you did work or not. The fact you are ready and capable to handle the situation is what they are paying for. So in reality even if you didn’t plow a single storm that year you still did the job, you provided the service they wanted. You were ready and capable to handle it when it does.

For me snow relocation or hauling or anything not normally done during the course of a typical storm is an extra charge.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

ktfbgb said:


> Honestly I don't get the whole charging for work you never did. That's the wrong mentality. TouThey want a set price for "normal operations" you need to charge enough to make it worth your time to provide whatever is considered normal service. So if they have spots that will need cleaning 4 days later charge that In your price.
> 
> Don't think of it as if you did work or not. The fact you are ready and capable to handle the situation is what they are paying for. So in reality even if you didn't plow a single storm that year you still did the job, you provided the service they wanted. You were ready and capable to handle it when it does.
> 
> For me snow relocation or hauling or anything not normally done during the course of a typical storm is an extra charge.


I agree but the problem is a lot of clients don't see it that way and if you charge accordingly in my area you lose the bid.

Happened to me on several bids this year.

Talking to them and finding out what they wanted and what made them unhappy from the last few years and then bidding it to do the job they wanted.

They want the quality work done but don't want to pay.

Oh well, sooner or later they will get fed up with the bad work and pay the price.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Have you ever heard of the line "sometimes your the windshield, sometimes your the bug?"
> 
> What happens on the year that we only get a couple of salts a month...


You are correct, but knowing my area that was 2 years ago and we are in for good snow for the next 3 years.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

MSsnowplowing said:


> You are correct, but knowing my area that was 2 years ago and we are in for good snow for the next 3 years.


That is the worst logic I have ever heard...









What is the source that is telling you that you have 3 hard years ahead... Farmers Almanac... Crystal Ball... Palm Reader???


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

And don't get me wrong... if you can actually charge twice for a service that you are already supposed to be providing with a seasonal contract... more power to you.

The only one that I agree with is the relocating snow if cannot keep on lot due to mass quantity.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

MSsnowplowing said:


> I agree but the problem is a lot of clients don't see it that way and if you charge accordingly in my area you lose the bid.
> 
> Happened to me on several bids this year.
> 
> ...


Maybe my thinking is different, or I'm lucky, or both. But I am picky with who I take on as a client. In both snow and contracting. And the way I see it, if they want to beat me down on price, I dont want them as a client. I look for and then ensure I keep the clients that dont care about price, They care about quality of work, and even more so, knowing they dont have to worry about professionalism and the job getting done right. I look for quality of customer not quantity of customers. I have found that I make way more money, with way less stress operating this way. It's very hard at first to turn down all that work, but after you see how much better it is working this way, it quickly becomes easy. Part of my screening with the initial phone call is I tell them, both for snow and contracting, that I will not competitive bid, and that I am more expensive most other providers. I inform them about the value that I provide, not the price. If they are still on the phone after that, we set up a time for an estimate.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> That is the worst logic I have ever heard...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Been tracking snow fall since 2007 and my buddy since 2000

pattern is 3 to 4 years average to heavy snow then one light year
light year was 2015 with 29 inches of snow fall

Averaged out over this period we get roughly 9-10 storms a year mostly between 3" and 6" with a few 8" and almost a foot or more every year except for 2015.

So we are due

Salting events are around 4-5 a year.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

ktfbgb said:


> Maybe my thinking is different, or I'm lucky, or both. But I am picky with who I take on as a client. In both snow and contracting. And the way I see it, if they want to beat me down on price, I dont want them as a client. I look for and then ensure I keep the clients that dont care about price, They care about quality of work, and even more so, knowing they dont have to worry about professionalism and the job getting done right. I look for quality of customer not quantity of customers. I have found that I make way more money, with way less stress operating this way. It's very hard at first to turn down all that work, but after you see how much better it is working this way, it quickly becomes easy. Part of my screening with the initial phone call is I tell them, both for snow and contracting, that I will not competitive bid, and that I am more expensive most other providers. I inform them about the value that I provide, not the price. If they are still on the phone after that, we set up a time for an estimate.


I do the same thing, sell the quality of work.

Never had a problem with smaller and mid sized only this year stepped up the game and went for bigger properties.

They want the quality but don't want to pay for it.

I don't care because I have plenty of work with my long time clients but it would have been nice to be able to hire 5-10 more guys and give them work and of course make a little profit.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> And don't get me wrong... if you can actually charge twice for a service that you are already supposed to be providing with a seasonal contract... more power to you.
> 
> The only one that I agree with is the relocating snow if cannot keep on lot due to mass quantity.


I'm providing a snow plowing service during snow storms.

I'm not maintenance, I don't maintain the property and only go there during snow storms, unless I'm called for a service call.

One major reason is for insurance.

Big difference between providing a service where you just go there during a snow storm and maintaining a property during the entire season.

Best example I can give is during and the day after a storm you clear the roadway, parking lot and sidewalks.
Your all done, everything is pavement.

3 days after the storm someone in the parking lot who didn't move their car goes out, clears the snow off their car and drives away.

Later that day someone else parks in that spot get out, slips and falls on the snow from that car and sues the owner, you, and anyone else they can name in the lawsuit.

If your contract clearly states you only go there during the storm and you have service calls just for that reason it falls back on the manager or owner of the property.

If your maintaining said property then it falls back on you for not clearing that spot right away even if you were not called.

And yes it happened to me and this got me out of it.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Let's say you charge xxx amount to plow a lot, and three cars are occupying spaces, do you discount not plowing/salting that xxx amount of space?

Because if are receiving x amount, you are being paid and it ur responsibility to fulfill your contract.

So basically what you're saying is, I was paid to plow the lot, some Joe parked his vehicle and it's not your problem or anybody's problem that mrs. Smith slipped and broke her ankle, is that what ur saying?


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> Let's say you charge xxx amount to plow a lot, and three cars are occupying spaces, do you discount not plowing/salting that xxx amount of space?
> 
> Because if are receiving x amount, you are being paid and it ur responsibility to fulfill your contract.
> 
> So basically what you're saying is, I was paid to plow the lot, some Joe parked his vehicle and it's not your problem or anybody's problem that mrs. Smith slipped and broke her ankle, is that what ur saying?


Not at all I do clean up following a storm 
I'm talking about days after a storm

Once had a client call me up 5 days after seems a bunch of kids had a snowball fight and covered a section of sidewalk and they wanted it cleared
That is not normal service thus the extra charge


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> That is the worst logic I have ever heard...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wooly bear caterpillars....duh!


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> That is the worst logic I have ever heard...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I went to a Palm reader once to get the Winter Forecast....She said that she could not read my palm due to the fact there was to much hair on them


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I went to a Palm reader once to get the Winter Forecast....She said that she could not read my palm due to the fact there was to much hair on them


Sure...


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Wooly bear caterpillars....duh!


My MIL tells me every year how the winter will be based on those damn caterpillars! When she starts on about it, my wife just cracks up because she knows how much it drives me nuts...


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Defcon 5 said:


> I went to a Palm reader once to get the Winter Forecast....She said that she could not read my palm due to the fact there was to much hair on them


Too much free time while you're off work


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Sure...


The hair was long worn off...


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

JMHConstruction said:


> Too much free time while you're off work


Don't forget the Union breaks.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Wooly bear caterpillars....duh!


Come on, you gave away the secret, now everyone will know


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