# Getting Started



## LawnLandscapeGuy (Apr 14, 2021)

Hello, 

I apologize as I know that most of the questions I am going to ask have already been asked and answered but I could not find any threads with my exact circumstances and I was hoping to get advice specific to mine before investing in any equipment. 

I am located in Central Wisconsin and operate a lawn care business during the summers. I have no experience in snow removal but am interested in getting into snow removal to make a little extra money in addition to my seasonal winter job. Below is the equipment that I already own that I am considering using for snow removal. 

2015 Silverado 2x4
1995 F150 4x4 manual
2-3 year old snow blower

Both trucks are in very good condition and I am very comfortable performing maintenance on the F150 so any break downs will only cost me the cost of parts. I do not want to trade in the Silverado for a 4x4 and actually would prefer not to use my main truck used in the summers for snow removal (at least not as a plow truck). 

I am considering either purchasing 1 or 2 more snow blowers and focusing on residential at a premium rate (marketing that I would be snow blowing instead of plowing) or purchasing a light plow for the F150 (something like an 7'6" HTX from Boss Plow that would weight around 440lb) and then trying to find a company to sub for for the first couple of seasons. I also saw that putting a spreader on the back of one of the trucks and then doing salt spreading as a sub may also be an option. I have around 5-10k I would be able to invest in equipment. I would consider financing equipment but I usually prefer to purchase in cash. 

I am looking for advice on which option would be best to get into snow removal considering the equipment I have or if I would be better off staying away from this type of work at the moment. I appreciate any advice you are able to provide!


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Sell both trucks and find a late model
3/4 or a one ton and a 8ft plow.
Then subb.

Snowblowing takes too long I’ve heard all the arguments about them.
when you have to come back and do a cleanup because of drifting or the city came by and pushed up another berm at the end of the driveway snow blowers are just too slow,
and a hassle.

Nothing says fun like walking behind a snowblower when the temperatures is in the single digits and the wind is blowing. 
Can you have a full day ahead of you and then clean up again because of the drifting snow in the am.


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## LawnLandscapeGuy (Apr 14, 2021)

Thank you Hyrdromaster, I appreciate the advice. 

Is the reason you recommend a 3/4 or 1 ton because a 1/2 ton is not capable/efficient enough or would I be unable to find a place to sub for with a 1/2 ton?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Don't forget aboot the proper insurance coverage for snow removal.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

I’m recommend at least a 3/4 4x4. For many reasons, First a 7 foot plow isn’t wide enough to plow a path for your pick up truck a 8 foot straight blade would be the minimum.

You still gonna need a snowblower and you’re probably still gonna need to carry salt,sand some counterweight, tools ,shovels by the time you do all that your f150 is going to be overweight and your going to be chasing repairs.


Most contractors looking for a guy with a least a three-quarter ton truck and a 9 foot V plow.


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## LawnLandscapeGuy (Apr 14, 2021)

Yeah, I had spoken to my insurance guy about snow removal but I have not gotten a quote yet.


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## LawnLandscapeGuy (Apr 14, 2021)

Got it. Sorry for asking so many questions but what type of hourly rate could I expect as a sub? Do I need to just reach out to some contractors for this?

I am trying to put the numbers together and I don't see how I would be able to make much if any money when I take into account insurance and equipment. I do know though that some guys make decent money doing this so I'm guessing there is something I am missing.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

LawnLandscapeGuy said:


> Got it. Sorry for asking so many questions but what type of hourly rate could I expect as a sub? Do I need to just reach out to some contractors for this?
> 
> I am trying to put the numbers together and I don't see how I would be able to make much if any money when I take into account insurance and equipment. I do know though that some guys make decent money doing this so I'm guessing there is something I am missing.


Sub rates are dependant on location and equipment you have.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

BUFF said:


> Sub rates are dependant on location and equipment you have.


Annddddd sometimes experience.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

What is your definition of residential?
Standard city lots, with sidewalks?
Or homes on the edge of town with longer driveways and no public walks?

How many of the drives will be able to be plowed with the truck? Where are you going to stack the snow?
Are you familiar with the codes regarding plowing across streets and roads?

You need to get the best equipment, that will work the best for you.
The truck may just be the means to carry the snowblower.
In this case the best choice might be a midsized extended cab 4x4.
They are typically not as tall as a full size truck and make loading/ unloading thr snowblower easier.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

One of my landscaper buddies that used to be on the FD does high end residential landscaping (nhl players, musicians, team owners, etc.) does several driveways in the winter, with paddle blowers and shovels.
The ones he doesn't do, usually have a heated driveway, and aren't in Holland... cool story I know...

I don't think you'll get many to buy in with postage stamps house, but perhaps more what @jonniesmooth said with the higher end, exposed ag/ paver drives.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

How much snow do you see in Wisconsin?
Are your lawn cutomers interested in snow sevices? 
What is your marketing strategy for snow?
Does it incorporate the lawn service with easy monthly billing year round revenue.
How much can you see yourself doing?
Lawn services typically you have a full week to get around, snow is a different animal that involves hours before the complaints roll in.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

I would recommend working for a company first before you invest in the truck / equipment. You'll be able to find out if you enjoy plowing, the scope of work, the expectations and you'll gain experience. Try to work for a company that does residential if that is what you are planning to focus on. 
I don't know what your current winter seasonal job entails, but if you could swing it, that's what I would suggest.


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## LawnLandscapeGuy (Apr 14, 2021)

Mr.Markus said:


> How much snow do you see in Wisconsin?
> Are your lawn cutomers interested in snow sevices?
> What is your marketing strategy for snow?
> Does it incorporate the lawn service with easy monthly billing year round revenue.
> ...


We average around 40-50 inches each year in my part of the state.

Some of my current customers do pay for snow services with other businesses. I am sure I would be able to get some to have those services done through me but I don't think it would be enough to justify purchasing the equipment if I am unable to get other accounts.

I have not thought too much about the marketing strategy. I really focus on fertilizer and pesticide applications so I don't know that combining that with snow services would work well.

I could see myself doing as much work as I would be able to get done timely enough to keep customers happy.


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## LawnLandscapeGuy (Apr 14, 2021)

jonniesmooth said:


> What is your definition of residential?
> Standard city lots, with sidewalks?
> Or homes on the edge of town with longer driveways and no public walks?
> 
> ...


The residential customers I would be targeting are homes in newer subdivisions. Most have maybe 20-40ft driveways and 50/50 whether they have a sidewalk. There would be space on the customer's property to push the snow. I am not familiar with the local codes but would obviously need to be at some point.


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## LawnLandscapeGuy (Apr 14, 2021)

Thanks for the replies everybody!

I am really leaning toward trying to find a job plowing for someone else this next winter. I guess I had just assumed that my F150 would be able to handle plowing residential and I would not need to look at getting a different truck.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

LawnLandscapeGuy said:


> I could see myself doing as much work as I would be able to get done timely enough to keep customers happy.


If you decide to get into snnow removal you should limit your route to 4-5hrs to complete. This is important when you have to make several rounds during a storm that lingers on for a day or more. By keeping to 5hrs it will allow you some down time to eat good food and get some sleep. IMO they're no reason to spent 20-30hrs straight plowing for one storm. The amount of time with little to no down time is dangerous, oppertunity for equipment and property damage increased multiple times.
Some guys, primarily back east post aboot being out for 20-30hrs straight. If they actually are they're fools IMO


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

BUFF said:


> If you decide to get into snnow removal you should limit your route to 4-5hrs to complete. This is important when you have to make several rounds during a storm that lingers on for a day or more. By keeping to 5hrs it will allow you some down time to eat good food and get some sleep. IMO they're no reason to spent 20-30hrs straight plowing for one storm. The amount of time with little to no down time is dangerous, oppertunity for equipment and property damage increased multiple times.
> Some guys, primarily back east post aboot being out for 20-30hrs straight. If they actually are they're fools IMO


By east..you mean Quebec?
Or is "back east" actually west.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> By east..you mean Quebec?
> Or is "back east" actually west.


Northeast US.
If you go far enough back east you'll eventually end up oot west....


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Like said before upgrade to a 3/4 or 1 ton plow truck however I'd keep the f150. I'd use the f150 in the lawn aspect and the bigger truck in the winter subbing.


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

LawnLandscapeGuy said:


> Thanks for the replies everybody!
> 
> I am really leaning toward trying to find a job plowing for someone else this next winter. I guess I had just assumed that my F150 would be able to handle plowing residential and I would not need to look at getting a different truck.


as was mentioned:

-nothing wrong with going to work for another outfit to get your feet wet.

-a 3/4 ton or better truck is ideal for plowing and salting. You mentioned a 5-10k budget to buy a plow for your half ton and a snowblower. 5-10k will buy you a fairly decent truck that already has a plow on it and is ready to work. I've bought/built several plow trucks for less than 5k.

With that being said, I personally would have no issue mounting just about any 7.5' plow on an obs F150. It won't move as much snow as a 250 and you will wear out drivetrain and front end parts quicker, but in the hands of a discerning operator it'll be fine. If it was me, I would buy an older 7.5' blade. You can pick one up for $1500-2000. Have it mounted and spend another 6-700 on a decent blower. You'll be ready for whatever next winter brings and still have plenty of money left over for advertising and repairs, (which will surely be needed) and an operational budget.

a last thought-i think plow trucks are less than ideal for most residential work, unless your out in the country where they have long drives. A typical 2-4 car driveway usually has to be backdragged out to the street, then pushed up onto the lawn or some sort of commons area. Backdragging, especially is deep snow with a light plow, leaves behind a lot of snow. If your going to focus on residential, I'd skip the plow and focus on blowers. I think @jonniesmooth and @Mark Oomkes (and several others on here that I can't remember, sorry fellas) both have some slick driveway set ups with blowers mounted on tractors if you want to get real fancy.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

question, would a skid steer be of any use to you in the summer lawn landscaping months?
when I get to a neighbourhood I can beat the guy in a truck, yes I said it, trade off travel to the next job unless you have a great route.
or maybe a toolcat?
things to ponder.


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