# How do you handle freezing rain?



## lukepighetti (Jan 8, 2017)

I have a few clients who are 1" trigger with no salt or sand. I'd like to provide service during freezing rain and charge it as a "push." Reason being: we want money, we think the customer will appreciate the service, it will improve safety, it will keep things easy next time it snows.

Does anyone have special provisions for these situations?


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

I'd think that would be your salting service, which you say they opted not to get.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Call them first,
Sell, your service.

If you salt without an agreement. 
You can't expect them to pay.

Why not clean their windows, and bill them?


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## absolutely (Dec 9, 2010)

SnoFarmer said:


> Call them first,
> Sell, your service.
> 
> If you salt without an agreement.
> ...


Exactly, call and ask what they want you to do.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Ad pricing in contract and leave it as a "salting on request". Not that I've ever heard of a slip and fall on a residential drive,but this will help you if an issue comes up.You merely plow the snow, you're not providing traction help.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

might also mention traction advantage if only a dusting of snow


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

We salt all the customers who have given us the OK to salt at our discretion. Anyone on a "request" only basis gets salted when they request it. 

Not really their problem that you want money.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

I have provisions in my contract for commercial customers to cover this, my resi's take care of themselves. In the past 20yrs we've have 2 freezing rain/ice events in my area.


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## lukepighetti (Jan 8, 2017)

Do any of you guys run different triggers/max for sleet? We got 2" of sleet yesterday and it was easily as much of a pain as 6" of snow.

We run 1" trigger and 6" max for snow.
I'm considering 0.5" trigger and 3" max for sleet.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

lukepighetti said:


> Do any of you guys run different triggers/max for sleet? We got 2" of sleet yesterday and it was easily as much of a pain as 6" of snow.
> 
> We run 1" trigger and 6" max for snow.
> I'm considering 0.5" trigger and 3" max for sleet.


It all balances out. Think of all the easy pushes you've had. This was a very rare occurrence .


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

If a customer says they dont want salt in a freezing rain event then just wait til they show up to there business. Theyll be calling you shortly. Resis can buy a bag of salt from home cheapo for $10 and do it themselves


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

lukepighetti said:


> Do any of you guys run different triggers/max for sleet? We got 2" of sleet yesterday and it was easily as much of a pain as 6" of snow.
> 
> We run 1" trigger and 6" max for snow.
> I'm considering 0.5" trigger and 3" max for sleet.


How are you going to get the sleet to stop at 3"?

Or are you going to charge more after 3"?

We had 2-3" of sleet for our first storm last year, and yes, it is the worst crap to plow. I'd much rather have 6" of wet, heavy over that much sleet.

Problem was it was coming down so fast it didn't matter when we started plowing.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> How are you going to get the sleet to stop at 3"?
> 
> Or are you going to charge more after 3"?
> 
> ...


I recall that crap, it was like trying to plow wet sand.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I recall that crap, it was like trying to plow wet sand.


Plowing Wet sand or Wet Salt...Either way it was fun


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I recall that crap, it was like trying to plow wet sand.


I hope I never see it again. That was the first time in roughly 30 years. Hopefully I'm dead in another 30. (so does my wife)


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

My homes are a 2" trigger anything less they call if they want it done. You have a 1" trigger for homes thats nice. All my contracts have sleet and ice storm provision. If per push they get billed twice if by inch they get up charged to the next billing 2" gets billed as 3 to 6"


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I hope I never see it again. That was the first time in roughly 30 years. Hopefully I'm dead in another 30. (so does my wife)


I am certain your wife is in good company  .

We had two threats of it here this winter....never saw any of it.
1/4 inch on the way home had to drive through.


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## lukepighetti (Jan 8, 2017)

3" max just means I will push at 3" even if it's going to be a 5" storm. Hope that makes sense.


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## lukepighetti (Jan 8, 2017)

edit: double post


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## lukepighetti (Jan 8, 2017)

I bring this up because lets say you have a 2" trigger like most residential does. If you get 1.5" of sleet that driveway is going to be ice forever. So I'm curious if you guys have a policy that handles this situation.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

My policy is I plow it.


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

We've had several freezing rain events in Jan. Some commercials and HOA needed multiple saltings per event as it got washed away or puddling and refreezing occurred. 

I sell "per application" saltings, so we can decide if they get salt or brine or if they need to be pretreated etc. 

If the ice or sleet built up where salt would not work, I'd plow it. Whatever it takes to maintain the property.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

If there's no ice management in the contract, all you can do is call them up and offer to provide it. You CERTAINLY CANNOT take the initiative and spread anything on your customers' properties (even for free), because they may specifically not like that.

For instance, any placement of SALT on the property can severely contribute to deterioration of anything made out of STEEL or ALUMINUM (I would NEVER have salt placed on my property!!!) -- it can also harm vegitation. Placement of SAND on the property will eventually require a cleanup/removal, since it doesn't dissolve into the street drains.


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

^ that's the difference between a "winter services" contract and a "snow plowing" contract. 

One makes more sales and less talking. 

Some property managers or pmcs do not drive around the properties, especially smaller ones. And residents expect timely service.


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## Jacobmb (Dec 3, 2013)

I like the way you think. I can apply salt to all my clients driveways in less then 3hrs whereas a plowing shift can be 8-12hours. If you apply enough to melt 1" of snow on your 1" clients then your saving time and hopefully making money! The question is - if your coming every inch of snowfall what incentive is there for the client to pay extra?

We offer salting services for a flat rate of $140 per residential client per season as an optional add on to plowing. That is $100 for the driveway and $40 for the walkways including labor and material. Our contract allows us to choose the material at our discrection (typically bulk salt until -8 degrees and treated bulk salt for -12 and lower) and we basically apply the salt after every single plowing event. It is an easy sell for families with small children and households with elderly people and the polycaster makes it a simple operation.

All our residential contracts have our clients sign an agreement to hold us harmless for damages or losses or injury caused by salting or de icing agents - EVEN if they do not sign up for salting service. This gives me the flexibility to apply salt in a freezing rain event for my own safety and to make future plowing easier and still be covered for the liability. We have plenty of freezing rain events here and I call or text my non paying clients beforehand and offer them salting throughout the incoming storm for usually 20 or 30 bucks. I ask them to put cash in an envelope in the mailbox that night and when we come to plow or salt we will collect and apply salt throughout the event. They have already signed the de icing paragraph on the contract so im free to do it for free if they say no or charge them for it and do it anyways.

The only exception is if they specifically tell me NO SALT EVER - which we make a note of in our records and I just don't bother with these clients. 

The other advantage with my setup is that I hate leaving salt in my salter after a storm and so I can throw the leftover down on the last few driveways of the night of non paying customers (which in turn helps me sell salting services for them the following winter as they see the effectiveness of it!)

The amount we choose to apply is based on the storm system, ground and air temperature. If we are plowing hours before morning and we see the snow will continue well into the morning we apply more salt to help melt the next few cm of snowfall. This being said, we have had freezing rain and ice events where no realistic amounts of salt application will allow you to get on top of things. I find that pre treating driveways with salt before the storm can really help in these situations.

Good luck!


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