# How would you do it.



## Oakplow (Oct 8, 2016)

Hello all,
I am located in central New Jersey bidding on a church. 
Information on site:
The church is located around the corner from my house. 
Measures around 1 acre of pavement plus around 300 square feet of side walk and patio space. 
The lot is is a large square with a long driveway with a huge grass area in the middle. So to speak easy lot to do and plenty of places to store snow. Will put up a picture when I get home this evening/ early morning.

Church is very active with people in and out from 8am to 9 pm. The lot must been done by 7am if there's an overnight storm.

The last 3 years we averaged about 36 inches of snow. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I looked at rutgers snow totals and added up the last 3 years and divided by 3. 
Equipment to be used is a 98 dodge 2500 with a 7 and half western plow.

My question is how long would this take? My guesstimate is around 1 hour up to 6 inches.

The church wants a bid as a seasonal and per event. The other contractor placed a bid as 1 price for up to 6 inches and another up to 12. Then x amount per inch over 12. Would you comply to this structure? Or do it differently? How?
I have a price that I will bid it at and would like to discuss it with you after I finalize how I will bid it as. 

As for as salting, I am planning on about 700 to 800 pounds to do the lot. I have no way to do bulk salt so bags is the only way I can tackle it. The customer wants a price for it but has yet to accept salting from the contractor due to the high price of it. He does the walkways himself. Is this not a liability for slip and fall? Say someone falls. Who would be liable if he does not accept my salting price and he does it himself and is not adequate at it? 

If you need any more information just ask I would love to discuss different tactics of going about it. Kind regards!


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Even with that small plow as you describe the lot it should take less than an hour. I bid using my numbers at 1 acre per hour even though it sounds like this lot would only take me a half hour. Make sense? So for a lot with a complexity level of A I quote at 1 acre per hour, complexity level B at 3/4 acres per hour, complexity level C 1/2 acre per hour. The shoveling on this lot would take less than 5 min if there is only 300 square feet, is that correct or was it a typo? It would be a PITA to salt without a spreader on your truck but not impossible. You can get a good walk behind that will sling it up to 16 feet so it could be done just gonna take some extra time loading that many bags into it so charge accordingly. 

Look up snow fall averages for the last 100 years, and last 25 years on NOAA for your area. A 3 year average from a non weather site is insufficient for data for coming up with a seasonal price. Take the historical data from NOAA and also look at the record years to come up with something you are comfortable with. 

You didn't say what the trigger is but a 6" spread on per storm is a little much. Typically around us a lot of businesses want a 2" trigger. I would do something like a 2-4, 4.1 - 6, 6.1 - 8 model for per storm. Or even 4" intervals, but I wouldn't 6" intervals.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

We don't do churches, is a tactic I have adopted.
Yet we will plow dental offices.


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## Oakplow (Oct 8, 2016)

Thank you for your reply and it makes sense. I will be buying a salt spreader for the truck. The other company comes out as many times as they need to in order to keep up with the storm but they do not charge per visit only what fell. So for example it snows 5 inches and they come out 3 times they still only charge the one price for up to six inch interval. So 6 inches they charge 300 but come out 3 times they still only change 300. (There prices are made up) This is what i got from talking to them Does this makes sense?
I would do it the way you mentioned and what I was thinking.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Oakplow said:


> Thank you for your reply and it makes sense. I will be buying a salt spreader for the truck. The other company comes out as many times as they need to in order to keep up with the storm but they do not charge per visit only what fell. So for example it snows 5 inches and they come out 3 times they still only charge the one price for up to six inch interval. So 6 inches they charge 300 but come out 3 times they still only change 300. (There prices are made up) This is what i got from talking to them Does this makes sense?
> I would do it the way you mentioned and what I was thinking.


Yes the incremental pricing is one price for however many times you have to come out for that storm within reason. You need to cover service calls after the storm in your contract. For example a 4" storm during the day would most likely warrant 2 trips to the site. Once during the day to open up drive lanes and whatever parking spots are open. Then you would return that night after all the cars are gone for the night and do a final clean up. That is one price for a 4" storm even though you went twice. You have to factor that in your pricing. But let's say you come for the final clean up and there were three cars parked there overnight. They call the next day after the final clean up and hey the cars have moved you can plow those three spots now. That is a service call that costs more money for you to come clean those up. Service calls should be covered in the contract. Does that make sense?


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## Oakplow (Oct 8, 2016)

Yes that makes alot of sense and I did not even think of adding that into the contract. What you say a service call would be compared to the price of a plowing?


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Well I charge an hourly minimum for service calls. So different things cost different amounts. Rolling snow back with a skid steer is a different rate than hauling snow off site is different than service call for just the plow. I make it expensive to encourage the client to put procedures in place to clear the lot at night. My contract states that a service call for the plow only will be billed at $150 per hour minimum 1 hour. So for me that church might be under contract for $160 for a 4" storm not including salt we don't salt parking lots here. But a service call to clear those three spots will cost them an additional $150. You want to encourage a clear lot to work with at night and discourage them calling all the time for service calls. But they will call and then you make good money to do the service call. They have to remember that after the storm you have already probably cleaned equipment sent guys home started back on your other work etc so it takes time to hear back up and go over there and 5 min of work on site in reality probably takes you over an hour to do.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

this is in all my contracts, per storm or seasonal.
*
Additional Costs that may occur for Seasonal Service* *or Per Storm Service*

*Major Blizzards for Seasonal Service*
Any one storm over __ inches there will be additional costs:
For over ___ inches, there will be additional cost of $___.00 every 1 to 3 inches for plowing.
For over ___ inches, there will be additional cost of $__.00 every 1 to 3 inches for sidewalks.

*Extra Plowing - (service call)*
If you ask us to come back the following day after we have been there and cleaned up the roadways and parking spots, there will be an additional charge for this; it will be a cost of $__.00 an hour, minimum 1 hour.

* Extra Sanding for Roadways and Parking Lots - (service call)*
In the event that additional sanding is needed on non-storm days for melt off from roofs, drains, etc...
Said application will cost $__.00 per application

* Melt Off, Icy Conditions for sidewalks - (service call)*
Salting for icy conditions on non-storm days for melt off from roofs, drains, etc...
It will be at a cost of $___.00 an hour, minimum 1 hour and a cost of product of $___ dollars per bag used.

* Skid steer usage for clearing and relocating snow - (service call)*
Machine cost is $____.00 for pick up and drop of the machine, diesel fuel used, etc...
It will also be at a cost of $____.00 an hour, minimum time 2 hours. - (this is for the machine, plow trucks and spotters)

Any of these service calls would only be completed upon verbal orders from you or your site manager.


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## Oakplow (Oct 8, 2016)

Here is the parking lot. Measures about 40k square feet with 815 square feet of walkway. I am not in charge of walkway near main road. Dark blue areas is where I plan to store snow and am allowed 1 or 2 parking spots if needed.

I plan to present the bid at 
Parking lot
2-4 inches- $350.00
4.1-6 inch- $437.00
6.1-8 inch $525.00
8.1-10 - $610.00
10.1-12 $700.00
Charge of $105/ inch after

Walkways 
2-4 inches $75.00
4.1-6 inch $90.00
6.1-8 inch $110.00
8.1-10 inch $130.00
10.1-12 inch $150.00

Service call after final cleanup of $150/ per hour minimum of 1 hour

Salting will be charged at $225.00 per application for lot
Walkways $110.00 to salt

How does this sound/ compare to what you would do? Remember I am located in New jersey and prices are higher than most.

Thanks!


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