# Garage door scratch



## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)

I got an email from a customer Thursday that one of my drivers hit his garage door. I spoke with the driver and he swears he didn't hit anything. I sent my foreman out to look at it on Friday. He said that he thinks it was us but the dent isn't even visible more than three feet away (very small) the paint was scraped a little so he figured a little touch up paint and we're good to go. The homeowner emailed us a quote to replace the bottom two panels of the door from a garage door company. The quote is $750. On one hand there is a small dent in the door, that you could maybe see,if you are looking for it, and you are less than 5 ft away. On the other, I feel that if the customers son did it he would throw a little touch up paint on the door and continue with life but since it's our money he's spending he has no problem buying brand new and charging it to us. Would it be acceptable to offer to either pay for half of the new door or paint the door at our cost? I think that would make him think twice about buying brand new.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

If you want you business reputation to be a positive one and stay intact, I would pay for the door and call it a day. If you guys did hit it, then its on you. Bad news spreads faster and farther than good news. Best thing you could do is get it over with as fast as possible


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

I get real sick and tired of this stuff because I've been accused of hitting doors and breaking glass multiple multiple multiple times when we hadn't even serviced a property yet. I'm not a donkey to pin the tail on, I'm not your homeowners insurance policy. I'm not shelling out 750 bucks for something we didn't do. Who says that dent hasn't been there for years and was just noticed? Who says the kids bike didn't do it? So just because they say you did it you have to pay? 

I don't like this mentality. I also need to come up with a solution because I've had enough of it.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

Does it line up with the level of a plow or hitch or mirror?


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

What are you plowing with ? Hard to believe only a dent that small if your guy hit the door .


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## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)




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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

Are we looking at the bottom white scratch or the top dent? Are they both being blamed on you or just the bottom?


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

I count 4 dents


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## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)




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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

Replace it yourself. It's a simple job. Couple wrenches and a screwdriver. It looks like you are going to need to paint the new panels too.


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## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)

hes saying that the bottom two panels have to be replaced. I don't understand how the dents could have come from the plow. The scratch maybe and the tiny dent at the top of the left scratch. That's why I said we should just paint it.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

I don't understand what the big dent on the top panel came from? 

Or the dent on the top of the lower panel that isn't scratched


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

Just saw the new pic. It looks like the two lower scratches could have been caused by the plow as you approach to backdrag. Upper dents are suspect and they may be looking for you to foot the bill on both panels. If you are concerned about the money then set up an appointment and bring the truck and go over all possible scenarios with the client. I'm a firm believer that speaking directly is always the best policy. Be honest. Speak candidly, etc. Get it done and over with now before you get busy during the spring.


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## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)

Just looked up the address on google and this is the streetview.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

No way. I don't even believe that. !!!!!!!!

This is exactly why I get so hot about it. 

You lucky son of a ......... !!!!!!!!!!

Drop him now.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Check the date on the street view. People make mistakes. People always look for damage whenever a contractor leaves


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

I figured we were talking about a crease or something in the door, a real dent. Those just look like whisky dents.

I retract my statement especially after seeing the google earth photo, OP I would paint it or tell them to pound sand.


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

Are we concluding that the large scrape was already there? Kind of looks it from the street view. Also there is zero % chance that you caused the upper 2 dents. Unless your back bumper hit it??? I'm getting upset for you just like Picasso/newhere! Keep us posted how this turns out!


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

I put a tiny hole in one during blizzard .. Those doors are such crap.. I would paint that and thats it


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

I wouldn't even paint it. You didn't do it.


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

The more I look at it the more I think you did the lower 2 scrapes with the inside part of the cutting edge like you have in the picture with the plow. You could measure or just pull up to it to double check. I think you should replace that lower panel.

I don't think you did the upper 2 dents. It looks like the same dent that we see from the street view was painted. Hold your ground on the upper panel. You can get out this for a couple hundred bucks.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

M&M;2127814 said:


> The more I look at it the more I think you did the lower 2 scrapes with the inside part of the cutting edge like you have in the picture with the plow. You could measure or just pull up to it to double check. I think you should replace that lower panel.
> 
> I don't think you did the upper 2 dents. It looks like the same dent that we see from the street view was painted. Hold your ground on the upper panel. You can get out this for a couple hundred bucks.


The bottom is what you see on the street view. I would think of you hit it with plow it would crumple. Dad pushed a pile in his own door and it folded like a pretzel


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

That white mark on the google earth pic does not line up with the white mark in the other pics. The one in the google earth pic is up near the top of that panel, you can clearly see the line across. The one in the other pics its down closer to the ground.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

How can you say that when you can see the white scrape clearly in the Google picture?


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

LapeerLandscape;2127818 said:


> That white mark on the google earth pic does not line up with the white mark in the other pics. The one in the google earth pic is up near the top of that panel, you can clearly see the line across. The one in the other pics its down closer to the ground.


You're right.

Judgement call op. Fix it and have a happy customer


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

newhere;2127819 said:


> How can you say that when you can see the white scrape clearly in the Google picture?


Look at where the panel lines are in each pic in reference with the scratches.


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## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)

The worst part is the attitude this guy is giving my office. They told him that we were sending a guy out to look at it and that I would call him back. I was up all day Friday salting with only an hour of sleep Thursday night and 2 hours sleep wednesday night. I should have called him back Friday night or yesterday but I'm torn as to what I'm going to do for one and I really didn't want to talk to him Friday with how cranky I was. I got an email today threatening legal action if I don't call him tomorrow. (I was planning on it anyway) in the email he said that he talked to the "little girl" in the office and she said I would call him back Friday. That "Little girl" is my wife!


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

GimmeSnow!!;2127822 said:


> The worst part is the attitude this guy is giving my office. They told him that we were sending a guy out to look at it and that I would call him back. I was up all day Friday salting with only an hour of sleep Thursday night and 2 hours sleep wednesday night. I should have called him back Friday night or yesterday but I'm torn as to what I'm going to do for one and I really didn't want to talk to him Friday with how cranky I was. I got an email today threatening legal action if I don't call him tomorrow. (I was planning on it anyway) in the email he said that he talked to the "little girl" in the office and she said I would call him back Friday. That "Little girl" is my wife!


Send the "little girl" out to talk to him. If she's anything like mine he'll change his attitude real quick


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## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)

After looking at it closer I think you are right. The Google image doesn't line up so it doesn't help anything.


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## chad1234 (Dec 4, 2011)

You say listen here little " insert guys first name" here's what I'm gonna do I'm gonna buy you a new door it's gonna be fabulous nobody replaces garages doors like I can.


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## redclifford (Aug 10, 2015)

That's a tough call, I would measure my plow to see how far apart the V cutting edges are, I'm actually going to measure for myself tomorrow. I personally think it would of done more damage. 

Its really unfortunate he's acting that way, let us know how it goes


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Depends on how much time you want to spend on this for the agrivation its gonna cause you. If you tell the guy to go screw, your rep is on the line. Go there, if its at all possible your guy did it, pay for it. Go to the door guy, see if he can do better for cash. Do not pay the homeowner, only pay the door guy. Next year, let your wife do his bills. I had to buy a cheap a$$ fence one year, $400.00. I no I didn't hit it. Wasen't worth my time to fight it.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

I wonder if he has stuff inside the garage that the door is hitting. 

I would almost say deny it all and let him take you to small claims court just because of the way he's acting. 

I would take the plow out. You will know. If it lines up dead nuts on the edges you will know. Take pictures and take a video.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

You don't get replacement cost. You get the depreciated value of your door. Example: new door $1,000 depreciated over 10 years, $100/year. Here's $200, do what you want with it. Sj9how me the receipt if it's newer then that.
I hit a door once, long time ago. 2 panels and a side rail, installed $350, by overhead door co. the most expensive in our area. I paid it,cause I did it.


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## Hamster360 (Jul 10, 2015)

It looks to me like the bottom scrapes were likely done by the plow. Your guy likely didn't know he did it because it's such little damage. Usually when you hit something hard enough to say "crap I hit that" they're mangled. I doubt a plow did the top 2 dents, a plow would scrape away paint no matter how lightly it was touched. The toughest part will be accepting fault for 1 panel but not both. Would you rather replace both panels, or replace 1, and get a negative review on your google page, and bbb and facebook etc. I think most people would pay a few hundred dollars to remove a negative review, so pay a few hundred to prevent one.

The homeowner might honestly think you did it, and is not just trying to screw you. If that's the case, and you own up to it, I bet he tells a lot of people how honesty you are and that you owned up to the mistake, even if you maybe didn't do it.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

I bet he doesn't tell anyone. Even if you do fix it I would drop him. Once you set the standard you will be paying for a new drive way because your plow left a scrape, new sod, repair of irrigation system, new shrubs. 

Get rid of him.


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## CityGuy (Dec 19, 2008)

Just a question but why is the plow that close to the door? Do you(r) guys shovel infront of the doors and he was being lazy? Is it the HO responsibility and you have it stated in your contract you will not get within x feet of the door?

Just asking.


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

a metal edged snow shovel could scrape those doors


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Off topic, but do you guys not go over properties and take pictures of any preexisting damages? It's kind of a pain on commercial, but I'd think residential would take all of 5 minutes.

If there is even a chance that you did damage his doors, replace them with your own contractor (a legit door guy) and be done with it.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

That V-plow absolutely did the damage, he tried to get too close to back drag. Does the plow he uses have a snow deflector? I don't see one on the plow in the picture you show, but is that the plow in question? Looks like a black smudge mark next to the dent in the upper panel. Anyways just replace what they want, you have insurance right? That's why you have it. I can see your guy not knowing he hit it though.


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

I don't why you pay for insurance. He threatened legal action, give it to him. I found that it isn't worth the time to placate someone. Once they find out that the insurance company wants to deal with their insurance company, suddenly they find the touch up paint. Never had a problem with the insurance company, they were always very professional and paid off in a few days. Customers were always happy in the quick response. Only once in 35 years did they refuse a claim. Customer claimed the way we piled the snow at the end of the drive caused the neighbors cellar to flood. What he neglected to mention was there were 17 houses between his driveway and the flooded basement. And surprise surprise it was owned by his brother in law. Idiot piled the snow up on his downspouts, they backed up runoff ran under the garage door and down into basement. He was very irate when the insurance company decided that we would not be providing service anymore


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

fireball;2127939 said:


> I don't why you pay for insurance. He threatened legal action, give it to him. I found that it isn't worth the time to placate someone. Once they find out that the insurance company wants to deal with their insurance company, suddenly they find the touch up paint. Never had a problem with the insurance company, they were always very professional and paid off in a few days. Customers were always happy in the quick response.


You pay for ins when something you do costs thousands...
Not to cover a few hundred dollars mishap.
What is your delectable?

Do not file a claim, your ins will up your rates to recoup the loss and they will not lower them for a long time if ever, as your a higher risk now.

Why would the homeowner file a claim?
It's not in there best interest.

Next, the homeowner doesn't have to let you fix it.

They get a estimate, or have it fixed.
You ether pay for this or you dont'
If you don't pay they are free to take you to court.

The last thing they want to do is file a claim on their homeowners.

next time, take pics before the season and tell your drivers to stay a foot away from the door.

Go pay for it and chalk it up to a learning experience.

if they have to take you to court they will be talking aboot it with all of their friends, who will tell all of their friends.....

ps put a dash cam in your plow rigs.....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

If you do agree to pay it, tell him you will pay the door company upon completion so he doesn't pocket the cash. 

I never pay estimates for out of pocket repairs........only actual invoices.


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## ThatGuySnowPlow (Dec 6, 2015)

GimmeSnow!!;2127780 said:


>


First panel is fresh the next one up has been there a while. Hes trying to get two sections and you didn't do the top......


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

:laughing:

No the top one is newer....

And the bottom one has 3 dents.
None of which can we ascertain the age of.
"-------

If we take a close look the top dent, it looks to have the same spaceing
Between the 2 dents.
Im saying it looks like the same object made both of the dents.


......
Op, but if you think they are trying to pull one over on you.
Don't pay, let them take you to court for it.



Make them prove you did it.

Get 2 estimates to have it fixed in case you do loose,cya

Then talk to your driver again, becuse if he did hit the door he has more than once.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

CSI Gregg....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SnoFarmer;2127980 said:


> You pay for ins when something you do costs thousands...
> Not to cover a few hundred dollars mishap.
> What is your delectable?
> 
> ...


Well put.



Mark Oomkes;2127985 said:


> If you do agree to pay it, tell him you will pay the door company upon completion so he doesn't pocket the cash.
> 
> I never pay estimates for out of pocket repairs........only actual invoices.


Between sno and mark, you have a pretty good idea of what I would also do.

I think your the plow did it by your 2nd pic with the v of the plow up close.

This is a learning experience for you. You can make a corrected plan for the future from this and get off pretty dang cheap.

Get your own estimates of like work so you know if you are getting hosed, present them to him and offer to pay your lowest estimate. Tell him if he wants to use his guys, when work is completed, you will pay your lowest estimate, he needs to cover the rest. IF that does not please him, have him sign something that shows that you offered to pay and he deffered your cheapest estimate of like work to his quote. You will have a much easier time in court if it goes that far.


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## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)

The Pictures are misleading. I went and looked at it myself. The top dent was from the top of the V. There was red paint marked on the dent still. Looking at the pictures I didn't believe it was us but I know our driver did it. Now I'm more angry at the driver for not fessing up. He had to have known because he stopped putting the plow down before it hit the ground. Otherwise the scratch would have went all the way down the door. Also when he backed up he obviously didn't back up far enough because the top of the plow made the second dent. I still believe it could be painted and nobody would notice but it's not my place to force them and I'm better off satisfying the customer than arguing. Called my own door company that fixes our doors at the shop and they quoted the same price. Made arrangements for my company to fix the door Friday.... If I'm going to give someone $750 I'd rather it go through me to a company that I deal with regularly. Hopefully the door company will think of us and the business that we give them and refer customers our way. Thank you guys for the help!


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

I wouldn't be mad at the driver. That tiny dent would be hard to notice he had to barely kiss it.


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## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)

I understand but he did go look at it after the customer called and insisted that it wasn't him. Also this is not the first time that he has denied damage to a property and we later decided that he was the cause... I don't know why these guys can't just be honest and tell us so that we don't look bad in front of the customer. I don't charge them for the mistake so its not coming out of his pocket... Although I am trying to put together a budget that is known throughout the company this year that will go towards bonuses if they keep damages below budget.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

GimmeSnow!!;2128118 said:


> The Pictures are misleading. I went and looked at it myself. The top dent was from the top of the V. There was red paint marked on the dent still. Looking at the pictures I didn't believe it was us but I know our driver did it. Now I'm more angry at the driver for not fessing up. He had to have known because he stopped putting the plow down before it hit the ground. Otherwise the scratch would have went all the way down the door. Also when he backed up he obviously didn't back up far enough because the top of the plow made the second dent. I still believe it could be painted and nobody would notice but it's not my place to force them and I'm better off satisfying the customer than arguing. Called my own door company that fixes our doors at the shop and they quoted the same price. Made arrangements for my company to fix the door Friday.... If I'm going to give someone $750 I'd rather it go through me to a company that I deal with regularly. Hopefully the door company will think of us and the business that we give them and refer customers our way. Thank you guys for the help!


What about the long dent that is half way between the 2 circles. Its right off the corner of the embossed part of the lower panel.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

If you made a mark on my garage doors like that I'd want them replaced also.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;2128144 said:


> If you made a mark on my garage doors like that I'd want them replaced also.


Yeah, but you're kind of a *****.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

Mark Oomkes;2128145 said:


> Yeah, but you're kind of a *****.


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

It's true. Lol


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

1) I can say...I have done it too many times. And about half I did not know I did. But most happen while I was pulling away feet not inches of snow. 

2) This is one of the problems of residential plowing. 

3) dash cams


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## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)

I like the idea of dash cam. What brand do you use?


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

I went cheap...glad I did it was stolen.

Check out these. http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/g9/5-dash-cams-tested/

Buy one that is not easy to rip off.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

On a Call;2128154 said:


> 1) I can say...I have done it too many times. And about half I did not know I did. But most happen while I was pulling away feet not inches of snow.
> 
> 2) This is one of the problems of residential plowing.
> 
> 3) dash cams


Also add in...I have at times saw where we may have scraped...but, no one said boo.

Not saying we did...but it was possible.

Also...I always, yes always, just pay and say give me the old door for my garages


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

M&M;2127784 said:


> Replace it yourself. It's a simple job. Couple wrenches and a screwdriver. It looks like you are going to need to paint the new panels too.


Wrong. You need to either kill the spring(s) or put cumalongs on the cables on the sides to stop the force of the spring(s), and then you can change the sections.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

Harleyjeff;2128211 said:


> Wrong. You need to either kill the spring(s) or put cumalongs on the cables on the sides to stop the force of the spring(s), and then you can change the sections.


Wrong. You need 2 1/2" solid steel bars and a 1/2" wrench to handle the springs. No garage door guy is using a come along or rewinding springs to replace panels. It's easy as cake to do. I bet I've done 20 repairs at least.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

If it were me I'd replace the bottom two sections for the customer. But you can get two sections for about 350.00-400.00, and about one hour of labor to replace them. That being said, you may have to paint the entire door because of fading and the paint not matching the two old sections.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

200 a section. We just did one. Used a screw driver to keep bottom section down and 3rd section up. Bolt new panel on and take screwdrivers out of holes in track and door comes right back together


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

If you've never done it before. Don't experiment on this particular job. Pay to have it done and move on. Sit the guy down that hit it, give him a pep talk, about his job stability.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

newhere;2128213 said:


> Wrong. You need 2 1/2" solid steel bars and a 1/2" wrench to handle the springs. No garage door guy is using a come along or rewinding springs to replace panels. It's easy as cake to do. I bet I've done 20 repairs at least.


Ever think aboot getting your depth perception checked?


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

newhere;2128213 said:


> Wrong. You need 2 1/2" solid steel bars and a 1/2" wrench to handle the springs. No garage door guy is using a come along or rewinding springs to replace panels. It's easy as cake to do. I bet I've done 20 repairs at least.


You don't know what you're talking about. I've been doing overhead doors commercially for 10 years. The two and a half inch bars you're talking about are called "winding bars", and they're 3/8" thick. And the "wrench" you talk about is wrong as well. I've NEVER seen a residential garage door with anything other than a 3/8" set screw to hold the springs, and you use a socket to tighten it. And yes, you can use cable cumalongs to hold the spring so that you can change springs. You want to sound like you know what you're talking about, but you'll just get someone hurt, so you should quit giving advice on this subject. Below is a youtube video of it being done correctly. You need to either use cable cumalongs or kill the spring to release the energy from the spring and hold the door stationary while working on it. The guy in the video did it perfectly.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)




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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

As seen in the video it also shows that his comment "no garage door guy is going to use cumalongs" is wrong as well hey? I've seen many, many people seriously hurt messing with overhead doors. It's not something anybody should be giving advice on unless they truly know what they're talking about.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

how long have you had the customer?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Harleyjeff;2128293 said:


> You don't know what you're talking about. I've been doing overhead doors commercially for 10 years. The two and a half inch bars you're talking about are called "winding bars", and they're 3/8" thick. And the "wrench" you talk about is wrong as well. I've NEVER seen a residential garage door with anything other than a 3/8" set screw to hold the springs, and you use a socket to tighten it. And yes, you can use cable cumalongs to hold the spring so that you can change springs. You want to sound like you know what you're talking about, but you'll just get someone hurt, so you should quit giving advice on this subject. Below is a youtube video of it being done correctly. You need to either use cable cumalongs or kill the spring to release the energy from the spring and hold the door stationary while working on it. The guy in the video did it perfectly.


My garage door springs are wound with a 7/16" socket on a drill... how bout the apples


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Philbilly2;2128623 said:


> My garage door springs are wound with a 7/16" socket on a drill... how bout the apples


Yes, there are a few of those. I think they sell them at Menards or something like that. Not many of them around.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

I wonder how many serious injuries have happened trying to replace panels ??

Two years ago I was killed by trying to replace one. That really hurt but after I died the pain stopped.


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