# Required back up alarms in Michigan



## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

The State of Michigan may soon be considering a bill that would require all commercial snow plow vehicles to be equipped with an operating oscillating (amber) light and back up alarm. The bill is Senate Bill 980 sponsored by Senator John Gleason. While the oscillating light is a no brain-er the back up alarm causes me some concern. Many of your clients and mine will not be happy with the noise a back up alarm would generate while servicing their driveway while they are sleeping or trying to. Just think about the number of times you go back and forth clearing a residential property -7,8,9 and then for the neighbor next door and across the street. I think you get the picture. The number of calls generated will be, well I can only imagine. There is talk about an amendment allowing for an exemption during nighttime hours in residential neighborhoods. My concern lies with the additional liability to you as a contractor that an exemption might create. Scenario - plow all night without a back up alarm in residential neighborhoods, 7:00 AM rolls around and it is time to activate the alarm, Fred forgets to activate the alarm and at 7:15 AM backs into a person, or God forbid, over a person. Lawyers will be all over this whether or not Fred was at fault. Just by forgetting to activate the back up alarm Fred will be found liable. Just think about how many times you or your employees may forget to turn on that alarm. I encourage you to contact both your Michigan State Senator and your State Representative and tell them that the portion of the Senate Bill 980 dealing with back up alarms needs to be removed. I do not believe that you and I as contractors can afford the potential additional liability.


Herm Witte


President 
Witte Lawn Maintenance, Inc.

Serving West Michigan since 1957

Board member MNLA
(Michigan Nursery and Landscape Association)

Member of SIMA


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## doo-man (Feb 22, 2009)

I don't see an issue I have heard some loud trucks! I personallt am in favor with running it all plowing/mowing season! Its a safety issue with me and letting others around know when I'm about to back-up. 

I know some guys might not see it the same but that's why we are all individual! 

I personally hate when people forget to turn off their overheads!

Just my thoughts!!!


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## Tosa93F250 (Dec 4, 2009)

I'm not from Michigan but I say that if that's a problem then they should just get rid of the amendment part. You are already outside peoples houses at night banging a giant piece of metal into the ground as you rev a truck engine to push the snow. If they complain about it tell them it's the law and you have to run it.

Backup alarms should be on every plow anyways. You spend plenty of time at night in the dark working and people out there aren't going to pay attention.

As for your Scenario



> Scenario - plow all night without a back up alarm in residential neighborhoods, 7:00 AM rolls around and it is time to activate the alarm, Fred forgets to activate the alarm and at 7:15 AM backs into a person, or God forbid, over a person. Lawyers will be all over this whether or not Fred was at fault. Just by forgetting to activate the back up alarm Fred will be found liable.


Fred should be looking behind him for people. He should also stop plowing in reverse at 30mph. If Fred's alarm wasn't switched like the amendment wants it would've been on all the time and then there is no case.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

It's been my experience that people don't pay attention to the alarm anyway. They walk behind you even though they know you are backing up, their thinking the onus is on you to see them not to make themselves seen.


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## Tosa93F250 (Dec 4, 2009)

Mr.Markus;966526 said:


> It's been my experience that people don't pay attention to the alarm anyway. They walk behind you even though they know you are backing up, their thinking the onus is on you to see them not to make themselves seen.


But if you have an alarm for reverse it gives you something to fight back with if they try to come for ya. You can tell them you had a back up alarm to warn you were there and they still walked behind a moving vehicle.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

All of our tractors and salt trucks have back up alarms and I find the quality ones do make a difference. Anything to to help avoid a terible accident is worth it to me.


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

Today I was backing up with the alarms on 2 of em wailing away backing up to a side walk, store entrance. Had two ladies ,in a SUV one lighting up another on the phone parked (in my way). Well it didnt help, they just took their "sweet time" leaving the scene. Next time I will hook a stereo with a sub-woofer on the back of the sander with BTO playing "Takin care of Business"


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

I run a back-up alarm during residential but try to stay out of these areas until 5-6 a.m. Haven't had a problem with anyone yet.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Tosa93F250;966530 said:


> But if you have an alarm for reverse it gives you something to fight back with if they try to come for ya. You can tell them you had a back up alarm to warn you were there and they still walked behind a moving vehicle.


Mines on a smart switch, (a requirement of the municipal contract I do.) Plowing in residentials is illegal at 2:00am with anything over 97db. Trust me if you hit them in reverse it doesn't matter if you had their mother tied to the back yelling and shaking her finger, you're gonna be found at fault.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

All our larger(non pick up) trucks have alarms. Pita when you do a lot of backing up, but oh well !!!!!


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## Pennings Garden (Dec 11, 2006)

Mr.Markus;966755 said:


> Mines on a smart switch, (a requirement of the municipal contract I do.) Plowing in residentials is illegal at 2:00am with anything over 97db. Trust me if you hit them in reverse it doesn't matter if you had their mother tied to the back yelling and shaking her finger, you're gonna be found at fault.


Great visual...

I'm all for it, and if they complain you can pretent you think it sucks too but hey, it's the law


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

JD Dave;966634 said:


> All of our tractors and salt trucks have back up alarms and I find the quality ones do make a difference. Anything to to help avoid a terible accident is worth it to me.


All of our equipment and bigger trucks have them. I dont have them on my pickups but we shouuld I think.

I may be mistaken but all commercial trucks should have them fully operational by law in ontario.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

Tosa93F250;966522 said:


> I'm not from Michigan but I say that if that's a problem then they should just get rid of the amendment part. You are already outside peoples houses at night banging a giant piece of metal into the ground as you rev a truck engine to push the snow. If they complain about it tell them it's the law and you have to run it.
> 
> Backup alarms should be on every plow anyways. You spend plenty of time at night in the dark working and people out there aren't going to pay attention.
> 
> ...


I belive that right here in St. Paul, the libs on the city council have actually floated the idea of restricting plowing in residential neighborhoods to daylight hours only... yep, that's right. Sounds like a logical way to elimate the disturbing noise of plows and everything.

And for those of you who don't like my use of the term "libs"... it sure doesn't help you when stupid stuff like this is almost always introduced by the Dems.


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## Turf Commando (Dec 16, 2007)

Between my code 3 strobe mini bar and driving lights, wired into my reverse, if that don't get your attention, I doubt an annoying beep will...


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

The bad part is the state isn't doing it for safety, they are doing it to make more money off of us. No different than a seatbelt, do you think they care if you kill yourself? Nope but they like the $50 or $80 bucks you pay for not wearing it.


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## sk187 (Dec 7, 2006)

A backup alarm is as simple as a dinging device on one rim.

We were audited by MOSHA and they wanted the simple little $45 dingers on one tire on each semi.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

show-n-go;967069 said:


> The bad part is the state isn't doing it for safety, they are doing it to make more money off of us. No different than a seatbelt, do you think they care if you kill yourself? Nope but they like the $50 or $80 bucks you pay for not wearing it.


Your worth more alive with paid taxes every year.


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

i blame the lady with the giant mole. whos gonna monitor if you have a back up alarm at 3 am


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## Turf Commando (Dec 16, 2007)

ajslands;967329 said:


> whos gonna monitor if you have a back up alarm at 3 am


Exactly...


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

We run back up alarms on our larger vehicles at my day job but most of the time you don't hear them because of the snow and ice pack build up on them.
Also I think my residential customers would be angry for waking them up with them every time I'm out plowing their drives at 4:30 am. Hopefully the law wont pass!!


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Plowtoy;967804 said:


> We run back up alarms on our larger vehicles at my day job but most of the time you don't hear them because of the snow and ice pack build up on them.
> Also I think my residential customers would be angry for waking them up with them every time I'm out plowing their drives at 4:30 am. Hopefully the law wont pass!!


i understand if there on like a dump truck or gravl train, but a pick up?


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

ajslands;967815 said:


> i understand if there on like a dump truck or gravl train, but a pick up?


It doesnt seem to take much, several hours driving around town and parking outside is all it seems to take. I suppose if your vehicle is garage kept it wouldn't be a problem


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## procut (Dec 1, 2004)

I can't believe so many people posted that they think it's a good idea. I for one would NOT want to listen to some stupid back up alarm all the time. Screw the strobes too, they're annoying and run down your battery.


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## gottaluvplows (Dec 20, 2008)

procut;967913 said:


> I can't believe so many people posted that they think it's a good idea. I for one would NOT want to listen to some stupid back up alarm all the time. Screw the strobes too, they're annoying and run down your battery.


OMG thank You! I hav the Isuzu truck and it drives the guys CRAZY because it backs up soo many times.. The kodiak didnt come with one and i dont plan to get one for it!


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

:realmad:as i stated earlier, no one would be able to monitor this, so idc if they pass a law, iam not putting one on my truck, 

1. no one could monitor it
2. who the hell walks there dog at 3 am?
3. if you cant see my strobes nor beacon then you should not be on the street at all
4. if i had this, i would not have one residential client
5. i dont like jennifer granholm:realmad::realmad::realmad:


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## MichSnowKing (Mar 26, 2016)

The guys who dont want back up alarms are the residential guys. install a switch so you can turm it off while doing residential work it really is a pretty simple issue.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

MichSnowKing;2133832 said:


> The guys who dont want back up alarms are the residential guys. install a switch so you can turm it off while doing residential work it really is a pretty simple issue.


The point that Herm was making is this shouldn't be required by law. There are far too many variables to make it a law.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes;2133841 said:


> The point that Herm was making is this shouldn't be required by law. There are far too many variables to make it a law.


Back up alarms so common any more that no gives them any attention just like a car alarm.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape;2133847 said:


> Back up alarms so common any more that no gives them any attention just like a car alarm.


Other than.........."I wish someone would shut that stupid car horn off".


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## KYsnow (Sep 22, 2012)

When someone walks out between a parked car around me or walks towards my truck in a crowded parking lot I simply hit the salt spreader switch for a couple seconds. 

They may complain to the stores management but they won't ever walk behind my plow truck again. Idiots


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

MichSnowKing;2133832 said:


> The guys who dont want back up alarms are the residential guys. install a switch so you can turm it off while doing residential work it really is a pretty simple issue.


One other thing, you have severely oversimplified the issue.

I have a large office complex that has condos as a neighbor. So it is a commercial account that I am plowing. But I guarantee that those folks in the condos don't want to listen to backup alarms going off for several hours a night.

We work at a hospital that is surrounded by houses. The only time we can move snow is during daylight due to noise ordinances but now they want to require backup alarms?

This idea was introduced because of a single tragedy. Laws should never be enacted because of tragedies.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

It's people texting and walking that are the problem.........


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

BUFF;2133914 said:


> It's people that are the problem.........


Fixed it for you...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF;2133914 said:


> It's people texting and walking that are the problem.........


Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

MichSnowKing;2133832 said:


> The guys who dont want back up alarms are the residential guys. install a switch so you can turm it off while doing residential work it really is a pretty simple issue.


While this is a pretty old thread I will add that there were a couple of issues and potential issues involved. I was not in favor of mandating back up alarms to all plow vehicles, key word was all. The conversation around the possibility of turning the alarm on and off during certain hours was brought up and the concern centering on the potential liability was brought up as well. Liability to the operator if not compliant and or liability as a result of turning on the alarm too late or off too early in addition to the stated concerns of an alarm sounding continuosly as residential sites are serviced while folks are sleeping. When I testified at a Michigan House panel on safety I was aware that a tradgedy had occurred but was not aware that it occured with a plow / salter combination that had absolutely no rear visibility. I would not have had and do not have a problem with a requirement of a back up alarm on any plow / salter combo or any plow vehicle with limited rear visibility. FYI, the law proposed at that time was redundant as OSHA requires back up alarms on commercial vehicles with limited rear visibility.

FYI, a back up camera is an awesome safety enhancement and I believe the issue being discussed is not on the table in Michigan at this time.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Wasn't the final verdict, yes to the light and no the the backup alarm?


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

Freshwater;2133962 said:


> Wasn't the final verdict, yes to the light and no the the backup alarm?


The proposed bill referred to above never came up for a vote. It died in committee. Amber light requirements are (I believe) already found elsewhere.


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## brianbrich1 (Dec 3, 2010)

LapeerLandscape;2133847 said:


> Back up alarms so common any more that no gives them any attention just like a car alarm.


I'm required to have them on my equipment that services medical and commercial sites I do. This is there requirements to hold the contract.

When I sit of one of my major hospitals in my mirrors I can see anyone behind me look and quickly move once they hear it. On the other hand they seem to play chicken with us when we are going forward.

I can also see the issue in residential areas. My alarms are not on a switch. While servicing a lot in a commercial district there is a row of homes tucked in the middle. It was after 10pm and my driver had the police called because of the noise. Not able to turn it off they let him finish but I am asked to try not to have trucks there after 10.


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## SDLandscapes VT (Dec 17, 2008)

Fun story a few years back we were hauling snow from a university campus and the neighbor kept calling the cops on our backup alarms--3 or 4 times police were there in a 2 hour period and he came out yelling at us every ten or so minutes. Finally the police told him if he called again he d be given a citation since we had every authorization to be there. We carried on three backup alarms at once--all just slightly out of phase for somewhat of a sonar situation........


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