# Residentials and seasonal pricing?



## NicholasMWhite (Oct 5, 2008)

How many of your residential accounts have seasonal pricing (one price for the year or per month no matter what). I give the customer the option of choosing seasonal or per push and almost all have chosen per push. It seems in Canada there are alot more residential accounts on a seasonal pricing.

I like the idea of a tractor with a PXPL for residential accounts. But if I can't get customers to accept seasonal pricing it is just to hard to predict the potential revenue and I don't see how it could be done. I don't want to go the HOA route and get a tractor for that because then you still have to deal with salting and sidewalks which I would like to avoid if possible. I'm doing only residential accounts now with a plow and very few of them have me doing sidewalks and none of them have salting.

So how many of you in the States have residential customers with seasonal pricing.


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## MikeLawnSnowLLC (Dec 6, 2005)

We sit at about 80% seasonals 20% per push for our residentials. Commercials are almost nearly all per push.


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## cpmi (Dec 18, 2010)

It's 50-50 on both our residentials and commercial accounts.


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

Last year I had one seasonal which was a hobby farm up for sale and the owner moved out of state. Still needed to have heat in the house since it was on the market and also not winterized, so the drive needed to be clear for the LP guy. 

This year is all per push. Some people must not think it will snow much...lol.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Seasonal ,this way you know how much money comes in for the season.


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## andcon83 (Dec 10, 2005)

I have quite a few that do not live at thier camps but want oi kept open. I just charge by the push for all.


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## GL&M (Sep 26, 2005)

Seasonal plowing doesn't sell around these parts. Everybody thinks they're getting screwed if you don't get much snow and charge them money and do no work. They don't realize they are paying for a guarantee on service or realize if they get a lot of snow it may be cheaper than per push. I can sell seasonal on the mowing much better because they know the grass will grow for most of the summer.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Around here its harder to sell seasonal mowing because they think they are getting ripped off!


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## wildwilly (Oct 6, 2009)

I always tell people that if you want to be per push you go to the end of the line for service. You want to pay for the year(4 months) you are golden, but only after the commercial stuff gets done. Most of my customers are seniors so they aren't going to go out right after a storm. They are serviced within 8 hours of the end of the last flake


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

grandview;1250350 said:


> Around here its harder to sell seasonal mowing because they think they are getting ripped off!


I was thinking of offering next year discounts for uncut weeks-give back 40% - by my calcs it amounts to labor and mower gas- but not all the other business expenses, parts, repairs, oil, insur, 401k, truck gas, mower & truck depreciation etc...


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

jklawn&Plow;1252135 said:


> I was thinking of offering next year discounts for uncut weeks-give back 40% - by my calcs it amounts to labor and mower gas- but not all the other business expenses, parts, repairs, oil, insur, 401k, truck gas, mower & truck depreciation etc...


Last 3 years ,havn't missed a week of cutting. Never give back money.


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## GL&M (Sep 26, 2005)

jklawn&Plow;1252135 said:


> I was thinking of offering next year discounts for uncut weeks-give back 40% - by my calcs it amounts to labor and mower gas- but not all the other business expenses, parts, repairs, oil, insur, 401k, truck gas, mower & truck depreciation etc...


If you do that you may as well do it per cut and be done with it. Seasonals are a crap shoot. Some time you win and sometimes the homeowner wins. If you calculate it right you win more ofthn than not. If it's a contract then don't give any money back.

I give the customers an option of a 10% discount at the signing of the contract if they gaurantee me 7months of income based on the average number of cuts for the season. If it works out that I cut less than the average due to weather condtions I make out a bit better than doing it per cut. If I need to cut more than average the customers gets a bit of a break. On the average I usually get the better part of the deal.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

On the lawn cutting you lose money in the spring because it takes longer ,you make the money when the grass slows down so you don't want to give the easy money back.


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

What's a Avg hourly rate if you figure gross time with no expenses. $40?


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## GL&M (Sep 26, 2005)

I bid residential at $45.00. Commercial is more because they are more demanding.


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## wildwilly (Oct 6, 2009)

1 minute = $1.00...otherwise get the neighbourhood kid. My furnace went on me last month... part cost $65.00 total bill $460.00 total time spent in my house.... 35 minutes


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## KMBertog (Sep 9, 2010)

all our residential snow customers are at a per-push price.


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

$$/hr are from $31 to $58. weighted Avg is $45
Can do real well when you get the neighbors too. No extra unload, loadup time. I guess I'm in the ballpark. But I really push the envelope time wise. I think my prices are low.


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## STIHL GUY (Sep 22, 2009)

all my residentials are per push


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## South Seneca (Oct 22, 2010)

All my Residentials are also per push. Most are older folks that are on limited incomes. It's easier for them to come up with push price than a seasonal chunk.

I charge $60 an hour for bigger jobs. Some days I don't think that's enough.


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## bradlewislawnca (Mar 2, 2011)

jklawn, had a customer tell me that his sister in western ny is paying 30% of my prices and that is what everyone is getting out there. I'm sure the area getting so much damn snow has a lot to do with lower prices. In Albany we are getting $35 for a 2 car wide by 3 car long driveway and $50 for 5 car long....


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Right now if you went per push here it would of cost you about700. bucks and if you had a seasonal contract it would of cost you about 300.


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

bradlewislawnca;1257941 said:


> jklawn, had a customer tell me that his sister in western ny is paying 30% of my prices and that is what everyone is getting out there. I'm sure the area getting so much damn snow has a lot to do with lower prices. In Albany we are getting $35 for a 2 car wide by 3 car long driveway and $50 for 5 car long....


I got off the track and was talking lawn service for some of the thread.
But per push is definitly more lucrative but more overhead after work is done. Billing paperwork date/ time who when where why how.

I mainly do seasonal. I'm at $112 /hr right now which includes putting in the stakes in Nov.
I must have been higher in seasons past but didn't track my hours.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

GL&M;1250325 said:


> Seasonal plowing doesn't sell around these parts. Everybody thinks they're getting screwed if you don't get much snow and charge them money and do no work.
> 
> They don't realize they are paying for a guarantee on service
> 
> or realize if they get a lot of snow it may be cheaper than per push. I can sell seasonal on the mowing much better because they know the grass will grow for most of the summer.




"They don't realize they are paying for a guarantee on service"

So what your saying is when it snows there is the chance that plow owners won't want to plow and make money?

Or customers need to get a promise that they will be billed?

Would you bring your truck in for a tune up and pay for a engine rebuild just in case your engine blows?

Some customers want to buy contracts some don't. Doesn't make them bad.

Most customers realize that there are years a contract will save them money.

Most plow owners realize that there are years that a contact will cause the to lose money.

Both the customers and plow owners realize that with a contract in the long run the plow owner will get paid for work they did not do and will make more money by doing contracts.

Who wants to pay for services not done?


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## bradlewislawnca (Mar 2, 2011)

Conversely my contracts get serviced sooner and more often. Per time wait until after the storm... That usually sells it for people. As someone else wrote previously in a thread, I don't have to wait for your call. I can come anytime.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

32vld;1258583 said:


> "They don't realize they are paying for a guarantee on service"
> 
> So what your saying is when it snows there is the chance that plow owners won't want to plow and make money?
> 
> ...


That is a very one sided view. Do you have insurance? Do you feel screwed if you don't have a claim? A seasonal contract is like insurance, if it snows 2 inches or more your driveway will be cleared of the annoying white substance. You don't even have to call and let the contractor know, it gets done automatically. This insurance will cost you $300 for the season regardless of how often the driveway needs to get plowed. No surprises, you pay $300 and that's it. Very easy to budget for, and you know that's all it will cost you. For this service the insurance (plow) company has all his equipment, and employees on standby from November 1st till April 15th. Whether there are 8 claims (pushes) or 28 claims how is this unfair to the client? Yes the insurance company will make more with less claims, but there is a huge cost associated with just having all the equipment and manpower ready 24/7 for 160 days. In all our years in service we have never had a season below 10 snowfalls. So it seems to me as being the fairest way to price for snow service. How is anyone getting screwed this way.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

That's right. I have a lot of different insurances that I pay for. But I prefer that it not be used. Plowing is the same way. If it's not used that means no snow on the ground so no delays going places less chance of getting in an accident on the road or slipping somewhere and on and on. But if it does snow I know someone will be there if I picked a good company to plow for me.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

No one has to prepay to have a plow operator come plow at every two inches or what ever trigger point is agreed upon or push once after the snow stops.

All that has to be done is to agree on the trigger point and the price per push, and plow will come every time until the season is over. Can't get anymore automatic then that.

Hence to there being no phone calls to be made at 3 am, or worrying if the plow is going to come.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

So if you plow a driveway 3 times during the night and bill them don't you think it would bother the customer that you did this and not just one time before the AM?


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

grandview;1258842 said:


> So if you plow a driveway 3 times during the night and bill them don't you think it would bother the customer that you did this and not just one time before the AM?


"All that has to be done is to agree on the trigger point"

Again this is part of the agreement whether to come and plow at x amount of inches or once at the end.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Maybe you just get different snow totals where you are. But when I did driveways I started at the first one and did my route in order. Not this one at 2 inches this one only 6+and so on. And if you get a bunch of ones that only want it done at the end ,I think your doing a disservice to the ones who want it done all the time because it takes longer for some.

But to each his own.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

32 VLD, you are new around here and I don't know much about your market. Would you be willing to let us know what you average snow is, and how many events. I am not saying per push is not fair, it seems to be the fairest for the client. You seem to find seasonal unfair for the client and I want to understand this better. Its like GV mentioned this season his clients have been charged $300 for the season, and had he gone per push they would be at $700. I believe that GV even in a light snow year comes in around what a per push would cost most clients. So I fail to see how this is unfair to the client.


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## mnlefty (Sep 17, 2009)

Neige;1258868 said:


> 32 VLD, you are new around here and I don't know much about your market. Would you be willing to let us know what you average snow is, and how many events. I am not saying per push is not fair, it seems to be the fairest for the client. You seem to find seasonal unfair for the client and I want to understand this better. Its like GV mentioned this season his clients have been charged $300 for the season, and had he gone per push they would be at $700. I believe that GV even in a light snow year comes in around what a per push would cost most clients. So I fail to see how this is unfair to the client.


Some people don't grasp that some customers just flat out prefer to pay a fixed rate, seasonal, monthly, whatever instead of dealing with the ups and downs of per time billing. Even if it means they pay slightly more in the long run, they'd rather pay $100/month instead of $30 one month, then $160, then $60, then $120.

There's plenty of services we all use that charge a flat fee instead of actual usage, even though paying for actual use could be cheaper in the long run. Cell Phone and Internet are two that could be paid for metered usage, but most of us prefer a monthly fee that stays the same. Garbage collection... I pay the same weekly rate no matter if my barrel is full, 1/2, or empty...

Why do people buy a season pass to a golf course, or zoo, or a health club instead of paying per visit?

The insurance analogy makes perfect sense. Could I get by without collision coverage on my vehicles... sure. Plenty of time I'd save money not paying anything until something happened, but then I also have to be prepared to shell out when something does happen. I prefer the peace of mind to pay a monthly fee knowing if "the big one" comes it's not going to cost me extra.


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

Clients know what they need to pay and don't have to "check your numbers". Or "It looked to me like there was only 1.99 inches, Why'd you plow". or "Where were you I alsmost got stuck in that 2.001 inches of snow".


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