# Plowing on ice. Lake ice...



## Moosehunter (Nov 4, 2003)

Howdy all...

I've been asked to do something I've never done before. Plow on a frozen lake. I'm a staff member of FishingMinnesota and they hold ice fishing events throughout the winter. Well, with the snow we're getting right now redbounce 3+ down and more coming!!) they need a spot cleared out on the ice to set up their tents.

Have any of you done this before? Aside from the safety issues (ice thickness) How should I do this? Shoes? No shoes? What??!!! I have no clue.  

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## streetsurfin' (Jan 22, 2004)

I've only plowed an ice rink, not a lake. I did it with no plow shoes and a light touch on the pedal. Are other vehicles out on the ice now? If the ice is smooth and you are sure it's thick enough, it shouldn't be much different. Surely you'll get another reply soon from someone experienced on lakes. I probably wouldn't go out there with a loaded spreader on the truck though. But then again I don't have the experience on a lake.


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## Moosehunter (Nov 4, 2003)

I'll be in a 2002 F250 supercab Diesel with an 8' Western ProPoly. As seen in my avatar. No spreader. And probaby no ballast to keep my weight as "light" as possible. Just me, my truck and the plow. I'm almost certain the ice surface is going to be very rough due to bad freeze up conditions at the start of the ice fishing season. The lake froze over, then a high wind broke it all up. Than a re-freeze. Full size trucks and vans are all over the lakes now. I'm not hip about driving on the ice in the first place and when fishing always take a four wheeler or my sled.

By the way... What's the best way to punch your first path with a straight blade?


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## RamesesSnow23 (Jan 4, 2004)

I have done it, once in NH so my cousins could skate. Now, I know you don;t want to hear safety stuff but you better make damn sure its thick enough. I will never do it again, I think its stupid. I go up to NH alot in the winter and you always get the idiots that have to go wheelin' on the ice, of course about 5 a year go through and insurence does not cover it and you pay out of pocket a fine, a wrecker and all environmental damage. Plowing it, i spent about 5 MIN and wanted to get the hell off because i was getting nervous. I did it in 4 LO with no shoes and a steel cutting edge. Running studded snow tires that were fairly new and provided good traction. Traction is not good when trying to push any amount of snow on ice especially 3', you fishtail around alot and break traction even giving it a small amount of gas, angle the plow any and the truck will pull to the left or right more so then on pavement. I say use 4 LO , drop the plow and let off the breaks and give it only as much gas as you need to keep pushing snow.


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## dwmaster (Jan 21, 2005)

*Devils Lake plower*

I plow 30+ miles of trail on Devils Lake with a 2 ton AWD GMC truck and a loaded dodge deisel with fuel tanks in the back. You just want to drill the area to asure your self you have at least 16" of ice. Dont make to large of a pile, spread the snow in windrows along the edge. As long as you have good clear ice its almost impossible to fall through. You would have to have two sets of parallel non jagged cracks and even then you would have to push the ice straight down without it getting wedged. You can leave the shoes off however there is a traction advantage to leaveing a 1/2 of snow stuck to the ice.


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## DJC (Jun 29, 2003)

I have done it some. Make sure you have the shoes off and start forward before dropping the plow.


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## caz41 (Nov 29, 2004)

I just plowed a road to my fishhouse this afternoon. If there's 14-16 inches of ice you have nothing to worry about. If the lake never have large pressure cracks then you will never fall through with that much ice. I have been doing it for years. There is a guy that fishes on the same lake as I do who is out plowing roads to his fishhouse with only 8-10 inches of ice. That's a little thin for me, but he does it every year and has never had any problems. If there are lots of full size trucks already on the ice than don't worry about going through, you don't have that much added weight with the plow to make a difference on the ice. If there is a lot of snow or deep drifts then get some speed before you drop the blade.


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## bolensdriver (Oct 12, 2004)

Moosehunter said:


> Howdy all...
> 
> I've been asked to do something I've never done before. Plow on a frozen lake. I'm a staff member of FishingMinnesota and they hold ice fishing events throughout the winter. Well, with the snow we're getting right now redbounce 3+ down and more coming!!) they need a spot cleared out on the ice to set up their tents.
> 
> ...


No way brothi! Don't do it! ACCIDENT IS LIKELY!


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## hyperpack (Oct 24, 2002)

*Submarine Plowing Snow*

I have plowed to a couple ice shacks with my pickup for several years now with no plow shoes,It is just like plowing a road no traction problems with a good set of tires.
Just keep making short pushes to the side to get a path opened up.
I have also plowed with my wheel loader to open up near the shoreline so I could place large granite boulders on the beach for a retaining wall. A 20,000 pound machine moving about 8 to 10 foot drifts,just kept chipping away and pushing it to the side,it is surprising how much traction even with water on the ice.
Hyperpack


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

Do it the safe way , sub it out .


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## dmjr77 (Nov 6, 2004)

Honestly, I would not do it. If your truck falls thorough the ice and you make an insurance claim, I think your insurance company wont pay the claim. I know here in NH that is the way it works.


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## caz41 (Nov 29, 2004)

Moose, listen to the guys that have experience. I have lived in Minnesota my whole life, and know that when there is a foot and half of good ice on the lakes you will not fall through. Those guys who are out there fishing are out there every day. If you see two trucks that are parked at a fishhouse right next to each other, they obviously weigh more combined then your truck does alone. Everybody gets so scared about driving on ice that the lake is going to just open up and they will be gone, look at dwmasters post and then use some logic.


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## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

dmjr77 said:


> Honestly, I would not do it. If your truck falls thorough the ice and you make an insurance claim, I think your insurance company wont pay the claim. I know here in NH that is the way it works.


My exact thought. We also run a towing service and have pulled many vehicles out the have fallen through. Insurance does not cover anything when driving on a frozen body of water. I would suggest Using and atv or a lighter tractor.


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## Chainlink (Oct 29, 2004)

Ive done several times over the years(was a passenger for most of them) and had no troubles. I now have my own truck , albeit a mini. I would be plowing today but it has been so cold with high winds there is no need. I drive out park next to my brother (10 or so feet away). We park where ever the wind is coming from, just a wind break to help the shanty. Ive done it with and with out shoes, and if you clear it to bare ice it will freeze thicker as there is no snow to insulate it. I read once 4" of ice can handle 3 tons of weight but I could not find it on the net to post here so take it for what its worth. I dont drive on it unless there is a foot or better. Also up here guys not only have shanty's but rv style campers.
.02


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

any of you guys ever see the show on history channel or learaning channel calle ice road truckers? :salute:


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## RamesesSnow23 (Jan 4, 2004)

PSDF350 said:


> any of you guys ever see the show on history channel or learaning channel calle ice road truckers? :salute:


Yes, that was an interesting show! At least around New England, I would still feel uncomfortable driving on the ice now. Temps have been up/down/up/down until recently when its been consistantly cold. I can't imagine that the ice is that good. Then iam the kind to worry about springs flowing in createing weaknesses, ice may be thick but it weak spots can develope. You will never find me driving on the ice on a regular basis, not unless its been very cold for a long time. The one time i did plow ice, i stayed within 150 Feet of the shore. Just me though, I like my truck, I need my truck I don't need it at the bottom of a lake.


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## Turfman76 (Jan 22, 2005)

*Check with the local....*

Have the local fire dept come out to the lake and test it....friend of mine plowed a lake before and they tested it for him....


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## ak_fleming (Nov 7, 2004)

I've never plowed a lake before but I've driven on plenty, with four to eight feet of ice there isn't much chance of falling through.


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## sodking (Dec 6, 2003)

Its a nice truck, are you insured if you do fall through?


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## RamesesSnow23 (Jan 4, 2004)

Iam sure the insurence company would laugh at you if you tried to claim that, its called stupidity if you do happen to go through. I am sure its fine to do in some locations MN for instance. I have seen enough trucks through the ice to not want to make a habit out of it.


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## proshare (Nov 7, 2004)

Moosehunter said:


> I've been asked to do something I've never done before. Plow on a frozen lake. I'm a staff member of FishingMinnesota and they hold ice fishing events throughout the winter.


Who plowed in the past & why arent they doing it now?

typically its done around here with old trucks for the obvious reason.
and when the unthinkable happens,( it always does here due to -12" ice) we leave them in untill spring.
Its also a tradition to keep a full case of beer in the cab, so in the spring all the rescue,towing & divers can enjoy a cold 1. 

on the ice with a 2002 plow truck?=more money than brains.


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## RamesesSnow23 (Jan 4, 2004)

proshare said:


> Who plowed in the past & why arent they doing it now?
> 
> typically its done around here with old trucks for the obvious reason.
> and when the unthinkable happens,( it always does here due to -12" ice) we leave them in untill spring.
> ...


Thats Funny


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## jbrow1 (Mar 9, 2004)

I wouldn't do it. But that's just me. Especially with a nice truck. What nobody has brought up yet is what would the price be? No way would I go do something my insurance wouldn't even cover for the normal price of plowing. Just b/c you're a member of the fishing club, doesn't mean you are obligated to do it.


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## dwmaster (Jan 21, 2005)

*Opening up Devils Lake Trails tomorrow*

I'll respond to some of the mis information. You do have to check with your insurance provider as a few do have disclaimers for driveing on lakes. However most insurance companies would own your vehicle when it goes into the ice provided its was reasonable a save decision to proceed on the ice. some insurance companies will only cover one claim however. 
There was a good point brought up about moving water as it can make for unsafe conditions. I would check with someone with knowledge of any possible springs in the area your going to plow. If its deeper water the do however have little impact on consistency of ice thickness.
I plow on Devils Lake for Fishing tournaments, car races, snowmobile races, and even golf courses. We even plow out parking lots on the ice for the race teams.
Believe it or not their is actually people that work for our Government that are Ice Engineers. They have come to Devils Lake and studied some of my projects. I've never done it because they pretty much told me what they know but I'm sure if you do a search of Ice Engineers you could get to know how ice act under different situations.
For example most people see the cracks in ice as a sign of weakness. This is actually a sign of good ice. You see when water freezes it first expands thus forming the pressure ridges. Then as the sheet of Ice gets colder it starts to contract forming the cracks. They are meaningless unless they are wet which means they just happen and should be given some time to Heal.
During the flooding here which i'm sure some of you have read or heard about. I kept the snow clear of the area where the transmission line cross our lake. All total I kept an are clean of snow 1/4 mile wide by 3 miles long. We drove 80,000 pound semis of rock onto the ice to dump into the lake to protect the poles.


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## dwmaster (Jan 21, 2005)

I've been looking at your responces and how the vary depending on where your from. The one thing I want to point out to you, here in Devils Lake We get out first snow in October and the goround stays white until April. We typically can drive on our lakes by the middle of december until Middle of April.


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## streetsurfin' (Jan 22, 2004)

A piece of info gleaned from a show on History or Discover channel about the Ice roads thru Canada/Alaska (not sure if it pertains to all lakes), was that you need to enter the lake slowly so as not to set up a pressure wave across the lake under the ice. I think as it nears the opposite shore, as the depth decreases it can cause the ice to crack. Is that accurate DWMASTER?


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## badranman (Dec 22, 2003)

Yeah, I saw that show too. They make the trucks stay FAR away from another so the wave from the previous truck can settle down.


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## Moosehunter (Nov 4, 2003)

*Thanks!!!*

Thanks for all the info and advice!!

You may have heard of the lake I've been asked to plow on.... Minnetonka.

I fish a lake only a few miles from 'tonka and have seen 1 tons out on the ice almost every time I've been fishing. Granted it's a completely different body of water, but it shows area temps have been right for the formation of "good" ice.

My thoughts at this time are as varied as the responses. Basically, I'm still on the fence....  The last thing I want to do is sink my truck. Or me for that matter.  A lot can happen between now and then, so, for the time being, I'll take a wait-and-see attitude.

If any of you just happen to be in the area... Here's the details....

Destination 4 of the 2005 Fishing Minnesota ICE Series...
Lake Minnetonka - Saturday, February 5th
Spring Park Bay Access
FishingMinnesota.Com

Tell'em Moosehunter invited ya....


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## Up North (May 4, 2004)

Moosehunter said:


> Thanks for all the info and advice!!
> 
> You may have heard of the lake I've been asked to plow on.... Minnetonka.
> 
> ...


Hey Moosehunter,
I just got back from Red Lake and plowed a couple roads off of the main road to get into an area to fish. Just make damn sure you know how much ice you have, anything less then 18" and I'd tell them to find someone else. I've always been a skittish one about driving on ice but anything over 18" and I feel perfectly safe. Good luck and watch for slushy areas...with all this new snow it adds pressure to the ice and will push water up thru cracks.

Buck


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## Moosehunter (Nov 4, 2003)

*and yet another twist...*

Howdy folks...

Here's a few more details... first, I'll need to plow a "path" leading 150' from the main ice road. Then clear an area 80' x 200' for the tents to be set up in.

I checked the ice thickness in the area I'm POSSIBLY going to plow and it varies between 18" and 22".

Here's the twist... According to the permit, I'll need to knock down the snow banks after the event. Knock down? Isn't that the opposite of what we've learned to do? Hmmm... Now how the heck am I going to knock down the snow banks? Plow that back out from the back side?

help...


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## Up North (May 4, 2004)

I suppose they want the banks knocked down as they could be a hazard to snowmobilers flying across the lake and not being able to see them at 90mph.  As for knocking them down, I guess you could just take a little bit at a time and fan it out as you turn...but I'm thinking they are going to come down in huge chunks that need to be broken up. May require a Bobcat. 

Buck


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## Nuttymopar (Apr 22, 2003)

I think I would snowplow for a few hours long before I drove on any lake for 25 minute plow job.  

Though I have never done that before.


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## plow150 (Oct 29, 2004)

Well, at least they told you about breaking down the banks before you made them. That way you can take it into consideration when you prep the site, ie. stack the snow banks short enough and spread out so you can get at it later.

Another concern would how much slush is on top of the ice. If you're just dealing with powder and drifted snow you're ok. If you've got a bunch of slush like we do this year, the initial plowing exercise might be ok, but once you've stacked it into piles, with your cold temps it'll likely freeze into a big cube, so you want to leave yourself manageable "chunks".

Sounds like you've tested the ice thickness, so if you've got some time before the event, take a run and plow a test spot and see how it fairs over a couple of days.


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## BJH Snow (Dec 18, 2003)

*Moose*

I just got back from the Brainerd Jaycees $150,000 Ice Fishing Extravaganza where I assisted with plowing the ice. I don't know if you have ever made it to that contest but they clear out from shore in 3 different locations at least 1/4 to 3/4 miles from shore and a large contest area. In addition I plow for the Big Lake Jaycees for their contest and the Golden Rainbow Contest in Forest Lake.

Make sure that you have the contest officials or someone go out on a snowmobile to check the ice thickness for your roads and contest areas. We usually go out on a snowmobile and check the ice. This past weekend the Ice on Gull Lake in Brainerd were anywhere from 24 to 30" thick. I know that the Ice in Forest Lake is at 28" thick the last I heard. In regards to weight in your truck don't take alot of it out. You will need it if you have to move packed snow. It doesn't hurt to have extra sand in case you need some extra traction on the ice.

Prior to going out on the lake this year I checked with my Insurance Provider and he said that I was covered for being out on the lake and that I didn't need any extra coverage.

I know there are risks of breaking through and that it can happen and some would say it is kinda stupid to drive on the lakes but I won't stop me from making some extra $ over the winter months.

When it comes to knocking down the piles, I can tell you that it it very tough to knock down the piles that are in your concession area. Last year in Forest Lake we piled up the snow to about 6' high in an area like the one you have to do. We were not able to knock them down with the truck and ended up hiring another guy with a snowblower to blow the piles down.

However on the roads we were able to plow them so that we didn't have to knock them down. I started with a path that was approximately 25' wide to the contest area, building the snow up on the right and left. Then I drove with two tires in the snow and two directly on the cleared area and left the blade up about 2" at an angel to knock a good chunk of the snow back into the plowed area and the unplowed area. That was acceptable to the county and we didn't have to use a blower for that section. As stated in a previous post, we did this for the snowmobilers so that they didn't run into a large wall of snow or jump off one bank on the road and hit the other when coming down.

I wish I could come out and help you on the 5th, I have to plow the Golden Rainbow Contest Area that day.

Good Luck


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## BJH Snow (Dec 18, 2003)

*Knocking down the piles from the backside*

Moose,

As I stated in the previous post we hired a blower, however I did have to knock down a couple piles this past weekend in Brainerd (5' tall and 40' long) and I basically came from an angle and drove through them with my blade about 6-8" off the ice from the back side to get the back down into the cleared area. It is alot of work though.


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## butler L&S (Jan 30, 2001)

moose,

I would stay away from Goose island if you can. Every couple of years a car will go through the ice between Goose island and shore. There is usually a pressure ridge there that you should stay away from. If you are going to be plowing in the middle of Spring Park bay you should be fine. I drove my 1 ton diesel there last week.


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## dwmaster (Jan 21, 2005)

*4000 ice fishermen to arrive in Devils Lake this weekend*

You got some pretty good advice on how to Knock down the piles after. Were lucky here in Devils Lake We are not required to do that. We have an established Ice road system so everyone knows there could be piles or windrows on the lake.
We have cleared the ice for 4000 holes to be drilled in preperation for this weekends tournament. My plows are also clearing about 40 miles of Ice Roads in preperation for the fishermen this weekend.
Goodluck with your project!


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## Moosehunter (Nov 4, 2003)

Howdy All...

As it turned out, Mom Nature provided all that was needed to clear the lake. 50+ degree temps.!! What a sloppy mess!!! I'm glad the Big Ford got to stay on dry land this time around.

Thanks for all the advice!!! I can always count on the folks here at Plowsite!!!


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