# Looking to get into the snow plow game



## bart2puck (12 mo ago)

I am looking to possibly get into the snow plow business as a side hussle next season. I currently have an F150 but have since learned its too small and will get beat up to easily. I am now looking at F250s. I am no expert on what I need out of a truck to succeed and not spend all my time in the shop. I have searched around and found a truck. 

F250 2013
127,000 miles
6 speed auto
4x4
385hp 6.2L V8

It does not have a plow package on it. Will this truck get the job done assuming engine/transmission are in good shape?

What other things should I look out for in starting my own little business? I posted on the F150 forum and got great advice but found this forum which I think is where the pros play.

Any/All advice you have to give would be great!

Best ways to get first contracts?
Recommended plow brands/sizes?
What should I look out for that may cause problems (mechanical,business,etc)?
What can I do to be most profitable? Any gotchas that I may not need to sink money into?
Safety tips?

Thanks for your time!


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Side gig? You have to be available 24/7 in this business. 
Plow brand. What's the closest dealer with good service?
You'll need good liability insurance, a at least $1 mil and a commercial auto policy.
As far as obtaining clients, maybe start with a local property management company. Also, get the word out to neighbors and friends. 
To retain clients, do a good job and be on time. Word of mouth is your best advertising.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Yeah that truck would work. Pretty high mileage, but if it’s been cared for well it will plow. I always thought Boss made the best front plows. Get a 9’2”V-plow. Put some weight in the bed of the truck over the rear axle or next to the tailgate. You’ll need a single stage snowblower… I recommend Toro brand(721 or 821). Bigger is better provided you can lift it in and out of the truck. Snow shovel, I recommend The Snowplow brand shovel. 30” or 36”. As far as getting accounts, ask around at smaller businesses. Hand out some cards, maybe door to door for some potential residential customers. Best thing would be to find a bigger plowing outfit and be a sub-contractor for them. Get your feet wet first. Pricing you’ll have to figure out what you need to make after all your costs. Safety tips: Don’t get you or anyone else killed or hurt. Good luck.


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## Meezer (Apr 3, 2010)

bart2puck said:


> I am looking to possibly get into the snow plow business as a side hussle next season. I currently have an F150 but have since learned its too small and will get beat up to easily. I am now looking at F250s. I am no expert on what I need out of a truck to succeed and not spend all my time in the shop. I have searched around and found a truck.
> 
> F250 2013
> 127,000 miles
> ...


How much snow do you get in your part of Virginia?


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

A few points on which plow to get. The Plow will be personal preference, first rule of thumb have a look what guys in your area are running make sure the plow you buy will have a dealer with great local service so you wont have to drive far. If you need to get it in to get serviced. Also see if your dealer has seasonal preference. For example my dealer (Boss) has a commitment to take care of all plow related services that come in. They want to keep their commercial guys on the road. So if a mower comes in for service and I bring my plow in after assuming they have all the parts I can get serviced first.


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## bart2puck (12 mo ago)

Meezer said:


> How much snow do you get in your part of Virginia?


Not a ton. maybe 2-3 good plowable storms a year.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

bart2puck said:


> Not a ton. maybe 2-3 good plowable storms a year.


I guess I could see how this would be a side gig.
Is it even worth the investment?


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## bart2puck (12 mo ago)

EWSplow said:


> I guess I could see how this would be a side gig.
> Is it even worth the investment?


The investment would be the plow/spreader equipment. I am upgrading the truck regardless (per wife's orders). My thought is if I can get setup for 3-4k, i could make that back in 1-2 seasons maybe? My 9-5 schedule is vary lenient so time off work isn't an issue.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

bart2puck said:


> The investment would be the plow/spreader equipment. I am upgrading the truck regardless (per wife's orders). My thought is if I can get setup for 3-4k, i could make that back in 1-2 seasons maybe? My 9-5 schedule is vary lenient so time off work isn't an issue.


$3-4k is somewhat realistic for a used plow.
$1-2K for a used spreader.
Add $1-2K for insurance. 
There will be times snow is forecast and you won't get any, so there's going to be time invested with no return. 
Being that you're in a low snow area, I presume you can charge more than we do in areas of higher snowfall. 
You might net a grand or two per season?
Hence my asking if its worth the investment.


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## bart2puck (12 mo ago)

EWSplow said:


> $3-4k is somewhat realistic for a used plow.
> Add $1-2K for insurance.
> There will be times snow is forecast and you won't get any, so there's going to be time invested with no return.
> Being that you're in a low snow area, I presume you can charge more than we do in areas of higher snowfall.
> ...


Good question. Before I invest anything I will ask around and see what other plow companies are making during the season. Thanks for the insight.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

I guess if you need a plow for your own driveway and want to be a good son and plow your parents, etc its worth looking into. 
As said by others, maybe sub for someone. That said, you'd need a bigger plow and spreader to do commercial accounts.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Its not a game its serious business for serious somethingorothers....


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Once you have an idea of how many snow events you will get you might find you can get by with a really powerful snow blower less over head. Only you will be able to make that decision.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

You should have included you only get 2-3 events a year in the original post. 
Not even worth bothering with.


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## KFX450RXC (Sep 6, 2014)

If I were only doing it as a side hustle, why not get a Polaris with a plow and a spreader? Throw a couple of snow plow shovels in your mix and you're a residential plowing beast.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kg26 said:


> A few points on which plow to get. The Plow will be personal preference, first rule of thumb have a look what guys in your area are running make sure the plow you buy will have a dealer with great local service so you wont have to drive far. If you need to get it in to get serviced. Also see if your dealer has seasonal preference. For example my dealer (Boss) has a commitment to take care of all plow related services that come in. They want to keep their commercial guys on the road. So if a mower comes in for service and I bring my plow in after assuming they have all the parts I can get serviced first.


Isn't this your first year using a truck and plow?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

kg26 said:


> A few points on which plow to get. The Plow will be personal preference, first rule of thumb have a look what guys in your area are running make sure the plow you buy will have a dealer with great local service so you wont have to drive far. If you need to get it in to get serviced. Also see if your dealer has seasonal preference. For example my dealer (Boss) has a commitment to take care of all plow related services that come in. They want to keep their commercial guys on the road. So if a mower comes in for service and I bring my plow in after assuming they have all the parts I can get serviced first.


most commercial guys don't expect the dealer to fix the plow every time it breaks down as most dealers are only open from 9 to 5 and plowing is 24 seven.
and there's never a dealer close by when you need one…
Time is money.
you should be able to fix the plow under a street light if your lucky enough to have street lights and you get yourself up and running and you soldier on.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

kg26 said:


> A few points on which plow to get. The Plow will be personal preference, first rule of thumb have a look what guys in your area are running make sure the plow you buy will have a dealer with great local service so you wont have to drive far. If you need to get it in to get serviced. Also see if your dealer has seasonal preference. For example my dealer (Boss) has a commitment to take care of all plow related services that come in. They want to keep their commercial guys on the road. So if a mower comes in for service and I bring my plow in after assuming they have all the parts I can get serviced first.





Hydromaster said:


> most commercial guys don't expect the dealer to fix the plow every time it breaks down as most dealers are only open from 9 to 5 and plowing is 24 seven.
> and there's never a dealer close by when you need one…
> Time is money.
> you should be able to fix the plow under a street light if your lucky enough to have street lights and you get yourself up and running and you soldier on.


My Boss dealer doesn't service lawn mowers, he services snow plows.
Not always, but most events of 2 or more inches there is someone there for parts and sometimes service. 
I know, I'm lucky because most dealers aren't open. It sure is nice when you have your plow hanging from a ratchet strap and drive across town at 3am to get parts and fix it in their lot or shop.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

That sure is a nice silver spoon.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Hydromaster said:


> That sure is a nice silver spoon.


They also load salt, so they can justify having someone there. 
Because of the services, I don't shop around.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

EWSplow said:


> They also load salt, so they can justify having someone there.
> Because of the services, I don't shop around.


How can they afford to have inventory?
Something doesn't sound right?


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Hydromaster said:


> How can they afford to have inventory?
> Something doesn't sound right?


Funny little thing called markup. 
I'll bet they have some inventory for an RT2...


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Why wouldn’t they, The old girls are starting to show their age and could use some loving.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

EWSplow said:


> Funny little thing called markup.
> I'll bet they have some inventory for an RT2...


Shutoff valve for a washing machine?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Shutoff valve for a washing machine?


Or a new quill?


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Shutoff valve for a washing machine?


They could probably adapt something to work.
I've got a UTV plow on a jeep. ..


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

bart2puck said:


> The investment would be the plow/spreader equipment. I am upgrading the truck regardless (per wife's orders). My thought is if I can get setup for 3-4k, i could make that back in 1-2 seasons maybe? My 9-5 schedule is vary lenient so time off work isn't an issue.


I had a side gig for grounds maintence and snow plowing in addition to my day job. Did it for 10yrs, paid cash for the wardens and daugters kollege. Working 7days a week and not being able to take much time oof got old so I sold oot.
Back in it again but running a wheel loader at one location, much easier just showing up and plowing, it's actually enjoyable.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

kg26 said:


> So if a mower comes in for service and I bring my plow in after assuming they have all the parts I can get serviced first.


Well ya.....ummmmm who's mowing grass when there's X amount of snow on the ground?
Doesn't sound like a special service, sounds like a no brainer..


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

so did bart2puck ever get in the game?
the suspense, I wonder what happened there did he get a sharp pencil?


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## soundnstyl (Aug 31, 2010)

I live outside of Philly. And we get maybe 3-6 plowable events. Looking at insurance, it was a couple thousand. What o ended up doing was partnering w a landscaper who already had insurance and he tacked on the plowing insurance. Only cost him a few hundred to tack on. At a couple thousand for insurance i would not be able to make that money back in the few events we have this side of PA.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

soundnstyl said:


> I live outside of Philly. And we get maybe 3-6 plowable events. Looking at insurance, it was a couple thousand. What o ended up doing was partnering w a landscaper who already had insurance and he tacked on the plowing insurance. Only cost him a few hundred to tack on. At a couple thousand for insurance i would not be able to make that money back in the few events we have this side of PA.


If you're not listed on his insurance policy you're not covered, unless you're an employee .
and even as an employee your DL number would have to be given to the insurance .
company.
So he's willing to pay thousands more every year to have snow removal liability insurance added to his policy and he's more than willing to add you for free? Good deal for you.


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## soundnstyl (Aug 31, 2010)

Hydromaster said:


> If you're not listed on his insurance policy you're not covered, unless you're an employee .
> and even as an employee your DL number would have to be given to the insurance .
> company.
> So he's willing to pay thousands more every year to have snow removal liability insurance added to his policy and he's more than willing to add you for free? Good deal for you.


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## soundnstyl (Aug 31, 2010)

He’s in the truck with me to plow. We called the insurance co and as long as he’s in the truck w me. They said we were covered. This is in regards to slip and fall type of insurance. If my truck hit something. It is still on me. It was a win win because i had a few accounts and since he was in landscaping he was able to get some accounts.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

soundnstyl said:


> He's in the truck with me to plow. We called the insurance co and as long as he's in the truck w me. They said we were covered. This is in regards to slip and fall type of insurance. If my truck hit something. It is still on me. It was a win win because i had a few accounts and since he was in landscaping he was able to get some accounts.


I know what snow commercial vehicle and snow removal liability policies are compared to your vehicles liability policy.

Unless you have something in writing
With your name on it and a policy that you can show a court of law proving you're covered you don't have any coverage.
Because someone said Said so isn't coverage.

Just because your buddy has insurance and he's riding with you doesn't put you under his umbrella

are you on his payroll?


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## soundnstyl (Aug 31, 2010)

Hydromaster said:


> I know what snow commercial vehicle and snow removal liability policies are compared to your vehicles liability policy.
> 
> Unless you have something in writing
> With your name on it and a policy that you can show a court of law proving you're covered you don't have any coverage.
> ...


Definitely food for thought. I am a sub contractor to his company. He is the one with the contracts and he collects payments. Then he 1099's me. I will have to make sure he's got something in writing from his insurance.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

soundnstyl said:


> He's in the truck with me to plow. We called the insurance co and as long as he's in the truck w me. They said we were covered. This is in regards to slip and fall type of insurance. If my truck hit something. It is still on me. It was a win win because i had a few accounts and since he was in landscaping he was able to get some accounts.


If the truck is owned by you, you would have to insure it for liability. 
Possibly, the truck could be leased to him, but if you're driving, you would have to be his employee.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

soundnstyl said:


> Definitely food for thought. I am a sub contractor to his company. He is the one with the contracts and he collects payments. Then he 1099's me. I will have to make sure he's got something in writing from his insurance.


That makes it really easy he's paying you as a subcontractor( 1099). A subcontractor is just a contractor hired by a contractor to do a job for the contractor.

you are not part of his business.
You are hired by his business.
You are not a employee.
That's why you're getting a 1099 and not a W-2.

You need to have insurance to cover your business. Or you need something in writing from an insurance company his or yours telling you that you are.

ps
If by chance you are listed on his insurance you just became an employee and he needs to give you a W-2 and cover you on Workmen's Comp. insurance.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...ependent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

soundnstyl said:


> Definitely food for thought. I am a sub contractor to his company. He is the one with the contracts and he collects payments. Then he 1099's me. I will have to make sure he's got something in writing from his insurance.


That doesn't sound legit.
You should both check with your insurance carriers.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> I know what snow commercial vehicle and snow removal liability policies are compared to your vehicles liability policy.
> 
> Unless you have something in writing
> With your name on it and a policy that you can show a court of law proving you're covered you don't have any coverage.
> ...





Hydromaster said:


> That makes it really easy he's paying you as a subcontractor( 1099). A subcontractor is just a contractor hired by a contractor to do a job for the contractor.
> 
> you are not part of his business.
> You are hired by his business.
> ...


SEW MULCH AN-GGGRR!! :yow!:


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

WIPensFan said:


> SEW MULCH AN-GGGRR!! :yow!:


Somebody could be more angry when they end up in court for a slipfall 
Jusr trying to help the guy out in a serous subject


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> Somebody could be more angry when they end up in court for a slipfall
> Jusr trying to help the guy out in a serous subject


Yeah absolutely! But presentation is everything. Why not say that first and then expound with your wisdom in a polite but serious tone? Use your power for good Hancock!


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

shock and awe. 
a Rise in blood pressure and some endorphins pushes the thought process along. 
It takes energy to make a change.

ore 
And I’ve been told this before
Surprise surprise
I can come off a bit more “serious” than I truly am.

ha


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> shock and awe.
> a Rise in blood pressure and some endorphins pushes the thought process along.
> It takes energy to make a change.
> 
> ...


I'm a fan. Most of the time I listen to people smarter than me… that's pretty much everyone. But when they come off as a d**k, it ruins their message. And of course I get instantly defensive.

P.S. I come off wrong way more than I should. I gotta work on that still. Too mulch anger!


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## soundnstyl (Aug 31, 2010)

Hydromaster said:


> Somebody could be more angry when they end up in court for a slipfall
> Jusr trying to help the guy out in a serous subject


Appreciate it!


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

WIPensFan said:


> I'm a fan. Most of the time I listen to people smarter than me… that's pretty much everyone. But when they come off as a d**k, it ruins their message. And of course I get instantly defensive.
> 
> P.S. I come off wrong way more than I should. I gotta work on that still. Too mulch anger!


It starts with. A, not with a D, like richard……
:waving: Thanks,
Or Mr. A$$&@|€


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Dont be putting Mr infront of it...!!! It gets confusing...


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mr.Markus said:


> Dont be putting Mr infront of it...!!! It gets confusing...


And we Shirley wouldn't want that.


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