# US DOT##### for Michigan



## LJC Lawncare

I'm new to the business and I have seen a couple of 3/4 ton plow trucks with DOT #'s on their doors. I have noticed that most of the trucks that have the DOT # have advertisement on their trucks also. I know that in Michigan that it is required if your truck is over 10K, but I don't know if they also want you to have it if you are a commercial vehicle. I plow with my 3/4 ton Dodge and have magnets on the doors with my company name and phone number on it. Do I need a dot #, or should I take off my magnets?


----------



## JDiepstra

Since it sounds like you are a legit business, in Michigan, yes, you need the DOT number on the truck. It is free to acquire the number. Of course, the stickers are on your dime. It is not likely you will get nailed for it, but it is possible, so you decide.

Just my two cents here.... rather than using the magnetic sign, I have my truck lettered up with stickers by a company that does it professionally. I have the DOT # underneath all that, on the bottom of the door. It looks so much better than a magnetic sign. Too each their own though.


----------



## Jon Schuler

Now I was just told that I needed medical cards for any drivers and log books for driving. Not sure about inspections though. PITA if you ask me. I can see a charge to get them renewed on the horizon. Anybody heard any different?


----------



## Superior L & L

Medical cards for all drivers
DOT #'s on all trucks and
Annual vehicle inspections w/ sticker on your truck is needed


----------



## LoneCowboy

Go here
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/

go to the link that says "Registration & Assistance: U.S.DOT Number/Operating Authority"

Follow thru the little questions, and it will tell you what you need for what you run and in what states.

a USDOT # is free, but there is paperwork to be maintained.


----------



## Runner

Thanks, Paul...I was going to mention yhe same thing. Also, while we're at it,..we should mentio that all drivers (including employees) will do require a Chauffeur license (for driving any commercial vehicle...even not requiring a CDL of any cat.).


----------



## LoneCowboy

You all may be right and it's all Michigan stuff.
But it's not federal stuff.
This all sounds very crazy to me, I asked my Colorado FMCSA about a CDL needed for pickups and he said (and I quote) "Pickups aren't even regulated" 

Here, call these people, get the right answers.

Michigan FMCSA divisional office
315 W Allegan St, room 219
Lansing MI 48933

517-377-1866


----------



## LJC Lawncare

Thanks. The only reason why I was worried about getting nailed, is b/c there is a weight master that drives around genesee county and likes to write tickets to everybody. Does anybody know of a good graphics guy that is not to expensive around the flint area?


----------



## Jon Schuler

I have a buddy, f350 diesel that was pulling an EMPTY dump trailer and was pulled over and fined due to being over 10000 lbs and didnt have a us dot number on his truck. The kicker is the truck isnt even lettered up. He watched him drop off a load of busted concrete and after that pulled him over. Motor carrier asked if he was working comercially and he said he was.........thanks for being honest, here is your fine for no us dot number. Its weird here, depends on which official you ask, they all tell you something different.


----------



## illiniplower

if you are going to get vinyl graphics put on for your business you cant change the size and shape of USDOT #'s. Better check with your local DOT they can give you all the specs. New law in Illinios any vechile with a D-plate must have DOT numbers we looked into making fancy vinly ones and thats when we found out you cant do that.


----------



## terrapro

like the others said...+
-dot# visabe from 30ft away (2")
-city of business and name
-all dot regulations followed... med card, chauffers endorsment, fire extinguisher, flares, triangles, all lights working, extra fuses, proper load handling, ins, registration, etc........

but in my neck of the woods there are 1 for every 10 or so legal 3/4tons on the road if not less. hope your paying taxes too because a paper trail is a bad thing to have.


----------



## QuadPlower

I got pulled over last summer and dot state trooper didn't say anything about chaufers license. Maybe because I am the owner. I'm getting my CDL in the summer, because I'm buying bigger trucks.

FYI I paid $50 for the medical exam from my Dr. Blood pressure was high thinking about what my workers had done that day so they only gave me a year long card. Normally it is 2 years I guess.

Trucks had to be DOT lettered by January 1 of this year. In MI it doesn't matter what font you use as long as it can be read from either 30 or 50 feet away and contrasting color from the truck. Can't have white letters on a white truck as an example.


----------



## LJC Lawncare

where do I go to apply for DOT #?


----------



## LoneCowboy

LJC Lawncare;712440 said:


> where do I go to apply for DOT #?


do you even read what people wrote? :realmad:
I gave you both the online link and the local Michigan division office phone number up above.

CALL THEM, get all the answers and even ones that are correct.

Let us know what they say?


----------



## d&rlawncare

Or you can just ask me.. Tell me what setup you have (GVWR of truck) located on inside of drivers door. FYI- MOST plow trucks are GVWR under 10,001, Therefor No medical needed, No fire ext, warning triangles or even DOT number til you get above 10,001 GVWR or GCWR. Example, GVWR or truck 8700 nothing needed but carrier id (with or without DOT #) Carrier ID is MI law if you have a commercial vehicle with an ACTUAL WEIGHT over 5000 pounds. BUT as soon as you put a triler behind it. you WILL go over 10,001, so you will need everything. or if your truck is GVWR then you will.

Chauffeurs license is MI STATE law. It has NOTHING to do with what is said above. POWER UNIT meaning truck has to be GVWR 10,000 or above.

This is MICHIGAN LAWS. I cant speak for the rest of the USA.

Please guys if you have questions send me an email or post on here. It can be confusing.

[email protected]


----------



## Jon Schuler

Im going to gets the screws put to me when lawn season comes, Diabetic employee that flunked his piss test.........too much sugar in his urine=NO MEDICAL CARD. If I cant figure a setup under 10000 lbs Im in trouble. Guy would have CDL except for not being able to get medical card. He would be driving. Was told there is a way around it involving 9 million trees worth of paperwork. Thinking even if he doesnt pull enclosed trailer, it will still be over.


----------



## snow game

There was a thread on this same subject a couple of weeks ago, got lots of responses worth the search!


----------



## QuadPlower

Jon Schuler, I've got a diabetic lawn guy also. He went through the medical stuff, but still hasn't gotten his medical card. Says "I only need the eye test." I said, "then go get it". I have decided he only rides with the other guy and he doesn't get a raise until I see the medical card.

He is also my brother-in-law and I wish he would quit due to his performance and the fact I CAN't fire him.


----------



## cretebaby

d&rlawncare;713354 said:


> Or you can just ask me.. Tell me what setup you have (GVWR of truck) located on inside of drivers door. FYI- MOST plow trucks are GVWR under 10,001, Therefor No medical needed, No fire ext, warning triangles or even DOT number til you get above 10,001 GVWR or GCWR. Example, GVWR or truck 8700 nothing needed but carrier id (with or without DOT #) Carrier ID is MI law if you have a commercial vehicle with an ACTUAL WEIGHT over 5000 pounds. BUT as soon as you put a triler behind it. you WILL go over 10,001, so you will need everything. or if your truck is GVWR then you will.
> 
> Chauffeurs license is MI STATE law. It has NOTHING to do with what is said above. POWER UNIT meaning truck has to be GVWR 10,000 or above.
> 
> This is MICHIGAN LAWS. I cant speak for the rest of the USA.
> 
> Please guys if you have questions send me an email or post on here. It can be confusing.
> 
> [email protected]


wether or not you need a cdl IS a fed regulation


----------



## d&rlawncare

cretebaby;714140 said:


> wether or not you need a cdl IS a fed regulation


Your right it is BUT...Im so so so sorry to inform you that MI did not adopt that part of the fed regs. And chauffeurs license is different from a CDL. If thats what your geting at because I didnt speak on CDL'S on my post. Most people on here dont drive CDL type vehicles.

You need a CDL if....
Single Vehicles - Having a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)* of 26,001 pounds or more.

Combination Vehicles - Towing a trailer or other vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more when the gross combination weight rating (GCWR)** is 26,001 pounds or more.
Vehicles:
Designed to transport 16 or more people (including the driver)
Carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding
*Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the recommended maximum total weight of the vehicle and load as designated by the vehicle manufacturer. The GVWR label is usually found on the driver side door post of the power unit and on the front left side of the trailer. The GVWR should not be confused with the elected gross vehicle weight (GVW) which is declared by the vehicle owner for registration purposes.
**Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum loaded weight of a combination vehicle. In the absence of a label, the GCWR can be calculated by adding the GVWR of the power unit to the GVWR of the vehicle(s) or trailer(s) being towed.

Chauffeurs License-
Unless exempt (as explained below) a chauffeur license is required if you:

Are employed for the principal purpose of operating a motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 10,000 pounds or more. (See note below.)
Operate a motor vehicle as a carrier of passengers or as a common or contract carrier of property.
Operate a bus or a school bus.
Operate a taxi or limousine


----------



## cretebaby

d&rlawncare;714367 said:


> Your right it is BUT...Im so so so sorry to inform you that MI did not adopt that part of the fed regs. And chauffeurs license is different from a CDL. If thats what your geting at because I didnt speak on CDL'S on my post. Most people on here dont drive CDL type vehicles.
> 
> You need a CDL if....
> Single Vehicles - Having a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)* of 26,001 pounds or more.
> 
> Combination Vehicles - Towing a trailer or other vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more when the gross combination weight rating (GCWR)** is 26,001 pounds or more.
> Vehicles:
> Designed to transport 16 or more people (including the driver)
> Carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding
> *Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the recommended maximum total weight of the vehicle and load as designated by the vehicle manufacturer. The GVWR label is usually found on the driver side door post of the power unit and on the front left side of the trailer. The GVWR should not be confused with the elected gross vehicle weight (GVW) which is declared by the vehicle owner for registration purposes.
> **Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum loaded weight of a combination vehicle. In the absence of a label, the GCWR can be calculated by adding the GVWR of the power unit to the GVWR of the vehicle(s) or trailer(s) being towed.
> 
> Chauffeurs License-
> Unless exempt (as explained below) a chauffeur license is required if you:
> 
> Are employed for the principal purpose of operating a motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 10,000 pounds or more. (See note below.)
> Operate a motor vehicle as a carrier of passengers or as a common or contract carrier of property.
> Operate a bus or a school bus.
> Operate a taxi or limousine


So your saying i need a "chauffers" license to drive a F-350 in MI


----------



## d&rlawncare

cretebaby;714702 said:


> So your saying i need a "chauffers" license to drive a F-350 in MI


Commercially...Yes Going to the store (in the same vehicle)....NO

I know it dont make since and I never write it but just trying to help out because there are alot of Officers that do.


----------



## 97F350PS

D&R,

Correct me if I am wrong.

My F-350 has a GVWR of 9200 - It does not require a chauffeur's license to be operated commercial or not.
If a trailer is involved, yes then the license would be required due to the fact that you would be dealing with a combined GVWR over 10001.
Adding a plow does not put you over the GVWR of 10001, due to the fact that you cannot change the GVWR of any vehicle.

GVWR is weight rating.
GVW is vehicle weight.

10001 is the key here.

Were dealing with capacity here, not total weight.

I have a GMC 7500 24' box that I operate interstate. It's GVWR is 25900, it does require the chauffeur's license due to the fact that its GVWR is over 10001.
It does not require a CDL due to the fact that it is under 26001.

In fact, I also purchased a box truck that has a GVWR of 10000 to run interstate.
Does not require, chauffeurs - DOT - etc....

I only bring this up, because I am a DOT registered carrier and I don't think these guys need to get involved with DOT or special licensing, unless they truly fall within the guidelines. 

Again,
Correct me if I am wrong.

E


----------



## QuadPlower

I don't want to nit-pick, but is this assumption correct.

Chauffeurs License:
Are employed for the *principal purpose *of operating a motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 10,000 pounds or more.

I use a GMC box truck to haul my mowers, blowers, etc to and from job sites to mow them. My employees Principal Purpose is to mow the grass. Their secondary purpose is to transport said mowers to the site using the GMC. I have 24K plates on the truck as it is over 10,000 GVWR. My business also has a DOT # and the truck is marked with it.

Do my employees (& myself) technicly need a Chauffeurs License?

When I hear principal purpose, I think of inter or intra state delivery type trucks.


----------



## QuadPlower

97F350PS, I'm pretty sure you are breaking some laws. Your 25900 truck (your company) needs to have a DOT # on it and follow all the rules that apply to it. You don't need a CDL to drive it. But you do need the medical card.

The DOT # is issued to the company not to the truck. So 1 company gets 1 number for all the trucks they have. Check a UPS truck. All the dot # are the same.

If you are making money doing inter state delivery, then I'm pretty sure you need a DOT and a CDL.

I'm not a law enforcement officer so I'm just guessing here.


----------



## 97F350PS

Hi Quad,

Read the bottom of my post.
I am a DOT registered carrier as well.

The big box DOES have the DOT numbers on it.
And my drivers do have Chauffeurs, Med Records, Keep Logs etc...

My only point was that DOT numbers are not required for vehicles 10001 and less.
Chauffers are only required if the GVWR single or combined is 10001 or greater.


As for your question, Technically YES.
In the State of Michigan if you drive a commercial vehicle with a GVWR 10001 lbs or more you are required to have a chauffeurs license.
As well, technically you and your drivers should have Med Cards and keep logs.

The whole thing is that I don't think that the Motor Carriers bother with Plow and Lawn Care much - due to the fact that it is not an OTR operation.

My last inspection from DOT was about 4 months ago so I got most of this stuff
pretty fresh in my mind.

My .02 is that if you are not technically required to register as DOT, don't do it.
10001 lbs GVWR is the key.

F350 9200 GVWR = NO DOT, NO Chauffeurs, Plow or not.

Again if I'm wrong someone correct me.
If so I will have my buddies brothers butt. 
He is a Motor Carrier Offcer in SW MI.
Its where I get my info.

E


----------



## d&rlawncare

97f350ps;715093 said:


> d&r,
> 
> correct me if i am wrong.
> 
> My f-350 has a gvwr of 9200 - it does not require a chauffeur's license to be operated commercial or not. correctcorrect
> if a trailer is involved, yes then the license would be required due to the fact that you would be dealing with a combined gvwr over 10001.no. You still do not need a chauffeurs license. That section of law goes off gvwr of truck only
> adding a plow does not put you over the gvwr of 10001, due to the fact that you cannot change the gvwr of any vehicle.correct
> 
> gvwr is weight rating.yes
> gvw is vehicle weight.yes
> 
> 10001 is the key here.for federal law...yes, gvwr or gcwr(dot#'s, fire ext, warning triangles medical card, carrier id)
> 
> were dealing with capacity here, not total weight.same as above yes
> 
> i have a gmc 7500 24' box that i operate interstate. It's gvwr is 25900, it does require the chauffeur's license due to the fact that its gvwr is over 10001.yes
> it does not require a cdl due to the fact that it is under 26001.correct
> 
> in fact, i also purchased a box truck that has a gvwr of 10000 to run interstate.
> Does not require, chauffeurs - dot - etc....chaueffeurs yes. Because thats state law and kicks in at 10000. Dot etc no because thats fed law and kicks in at 10,001 gvwr or gcwr
> 
> i only bring this up, because i am a dot registered carrier and i don't think these guys need to get involved with dot or special licensing, unless they truly fall within the guidelines.
> 
> Again,
> correct me if i am wrong.
> 
> E


see above highlights in red. Sorry for the caps but it stands out more.


----------



## d&rlawncare

QuadPlower;715136 said:


> I don't want to nit-pick, but is this assumption correct.
> 
> Chauffeurs License:
> Are employed for the *principal purpose *of operating a motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 10,000 pounds or more.
> 
> I use a GMC box truck to haul my mowers, blowers, etc to and from job sites to mow them. My employees Principal Purpose is to mow the grass. Their secondary purpose is to transport said mowers to the site using the GMC. I have 24K plates on the truck as it is over 10,000 GVWR. My business also has a DOT # and the truck is marked with it.
> 
> Do my employees (& myself) technicly need a Chauffeurs License?
> 
> When I hear principal purpose, I think of inter or intra state delivery type trucks.


This has been argued many times and you need a chauffeurs license. Your prinicipal purpose of mowing lawns includes getting your mowers there. You cannot mow grass without transporting the mowers. So yes you need a chauffeurs license. And this also goes for owners as well. Part of owning the company is driving around checking on job sites, bids, etc etc.


----------



## 97F350PS

I stand corrected. 

I will need to get the DOT numbers on the F-350 to pull a trailer this spring.

Now, should I use the number that is registered with my primary business?
Or, should I re-register with the newly created business?

E


----------

