# The Great Employee Debate



## CP Paul (Sep 18, 2009)

What are you guys doing about "Standby Wages" for an employee?

This is the first I've heard about this, paying someone to sit at home. I get the idea that they are (supposed to be) making a commitment not to party like rock stars, when there's a chance of snow. That they're supposed to be ready to go at a moments notice.

Personally, I would be happy to pay them what I understand to be 20 hrs of standby money if it were more of a guarantee of income...that they were showing up to do some work for the money. Something like maintenance on the equipment, cleaning the equipment....something! 

And I've only got the truck and Kubota c/w blower, so I need to be sure this guy shows up. So I need to treat them well but, in this year of expansion I can't give the farm away.

What are you guys doing? What did you guys (Canadian or US) do when you only had one employee? ....Because when you don't have 8 machines/employees so if one guy doesn't show, you can spread the work around to the other 7? I don't have that luxury.

Thanks,
Paul tymusic :yow!:


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

The biggest question is what are you paying him hourly rate?

But then again, from my experience it dosent matter what I paid, they still didn't show up last year... Its more in the character of thr guy and finding someone you know will stick it out and wount leave you hanging...


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## cold_and_tired (Dec 18, 2008)

Have you local Labor Ready or other such business on standby in case your guy doesn't show.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

You don't just put anybody in a tractor....... JMO


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## CP Paul (Sep 18, 2009)

Triple L...your right. I wouldn't be putting anyone on the truck or especially the tractor without lots of experience and excellent references. Even then, it comes down to what kind of character they have. I'm going to need back up guys, retired guys who want something to do rather than work at Walmart.

Main guy though, has to be as rock solid as I can find.

L, are you paying your guys 'standby wages' or just a decent pay like you said?



Triple L;1313935 said:


> You don't just put anybody in a tractor....... JMO


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Years ago,I was paid some much a wk/mo for standby. So when It snowed I worked off the advance to so call pay it back.


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## CP Paul (Sep 18, 2009)

Well, if it went against future work then that would make sense. I just didn't see paying money per week if it didn't snow. Then when you get nailed and plow a bunch, he gets all that too.

Now this way makes more sense to me.



grandview;1314060 said:


> Years ago,I was paid some much a wk/mo for standby. So when It snowed I worked off the advance to so call pay it back.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Our stand by wage is the same rate as their normal pay. "Stand by" to me is when you dispatch prior to an event.....the event doesn't happen and you call them off. 

Sounds as though you want to pay a second stringer to stand by just in case you need him because your first stringer fails to show? Seems an odd backup plan.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

TCLA;1314178 said:


> Our stand by wage is the same rate as their normal pay. "Stand by" to me is when you dispatch prior to an event.....the event doesn't happen and you call them off.
> 
> Sounds as though you want to pay a second stringer to stand by just in case you need him because your first stringer fails to show? Seems an odd backup plan.


Doe's The second "Stringer" deserve the same rate of Pay as a "First" stringer......


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Why not a salary? If you claim to pay well, then a good salary would keep them (most good employees) around and you would know your employee burden before you even start to plow snow.



Triple L;1313935 said:


> You don't just put anybody in a tractor....... JMO


No......You put them in a rented skid. JK


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

TCLA;1314178 said:


> Our stand by wage is the same rate as their normal pay. "Stand by" to me is when you dispatch prior to an event.....the event doesn't happen and you call them off.
> 
> Sounds as though you want to pay a second stringer to stand by just in case you need him because your first stringer fails to show? Seems an odd backup plan.


All of our guys get a weekly standby pay for 20 weeks and then it's hourly when they work. It's very common around here as it gauruntees the person to be available at a moments notice and we don't want any excuses. The same guys have worked for us for years.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mr.Markus;1314197 said:


> No......You put them in a rented skid. JK


I got a good laugh out of that.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Matson Snow;1314185 said:


> Doe's The second "Stringer" deserve the same rate of Pay as a "First" stringer......


Probably not.

I guess I don't know what a second stringer is. Everyone I know is critical.


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## CP Paul (Sep 18, 2009)

I've been hearing that they are getting 20 hours of standby pay if they don't work that week, which is why I'm freaking out.

So whats your standby pay for each of the 20 weeks? And what kind of wages are your guys getting on what machines...if you don't mind me asking?



JD Dave;1314249 said:


> All of our guys get a weekly standby pay for 20 weeks and then it's hourly when they work. It's very common around here as it gauruntees the person to be available at a moments notice and we don't want any excuses. The same guys have worked for us for years.


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## CP Paul (Sep 18, 2009)

So is that what you do then is pay them a salary?

I don't pay them well because this will be my first employee but, I expect I will pay the right guy the right money to keep him from running off to the big guys or to make sure he shows up.

...love the rented skid comment...



Mr.Markus;1314197 said:


> Why not a salary? If you claim to pay well, then a good salary would keep them (most good employees) around and you would know your employee burden before you even start to plow snow.
> 
> No......You put them in a rented skid. JK


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

TCLA;1314178 said:


> Our stand by wage is the same rate as their normal pay. "Stand by" to me is when you dispatch prior to an event.....the event doesn't happen and you call them off.
> 
> Sounds as though you want to pay a second stringer to stand by just in case you need him because your first stringer fails to show? Seems an odd backup plan.


So if you have 0 events.....guys get 0 pay?



JD Dave;1314249 said:


> All of our guys get a weekly standby pay for 20 weeks and then it's hourly when they work. It's very common around here as it gauruntees the person to be available at a moments notice and we don't want any excuses. The same guys have worked for us for years.


So your guys get paid something, even if there is no snow at all? This is great if you have mostly seasonal accounts....it can be figured/budgeted in. I wish seasonals were more common here. I have a few accounts that I am going to offer seasonal prices to next season (multi yr contracts expire then). If I'm successful in doing so, I will offer my employees something similar.

I have a few guys that I always try and keep little things going on here & there through the winter.....But for me, you only get paid if you are moving snow.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

CP Paul;1314287 said:


> So is that what you do then is pay them a salary?
> 
> I don't pay them well because this will be my first employee but, I expect I will pay the right guy the right money to keep him from running off to the big guys or to make sure he shows up.
> 
> ...love the rented skid comment...





CP Paul;1314287 said:


> So is that what you do then is pay them a salary?
> 
> I don't pay them well because this will be my first employee but, I expect I will pay the right guy the right money to keep him from running off to the big guys or to make sure he shows up.
> 
> ...love the rented skid comment...


I'm a one man operation. Most would say my employee is overpaid. I considered myself a good employee when I worked for others, you might get someone temporary who can tolerate the job for a good price, when they can make a good living at it and feed their family and pay their bills they exel... and so does your business.JMO


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## CP Paul (Sep 18, 2009)

Mr.Markus;1314315 said:


> I'm a one man operation. Most would say my employee is overpaid. I considered myself a good employee when I worked for others, you might get someone temporary who can tolerate the job for a good price, when they can make a good living at it and feed their family and pay their bills they exel... and so does your business.JMO


I'm planning on paying my guy a great wage, so he's happy to be at work, takes care of the equipment and for sure...shows up!

Just trying to get an idea of what guys are doing with this standby wage. To pay or not to pay? If you pay then how much do you adjust the wages by?

...Think it was Grandview above that said he used to get pay for weeks when there wasn't work but that it was deducted from plow days or weeks. That way he had money coming in no matter what. That seems fair and balanced.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

CP Paul;1314321 said:


> . That way he had money coming in no matter what. That seems fair and balanced.


Sure it does, for him. What if you pay him more money that what he puts in for hrs plowing (light winter)? Do you have guaranteed income for the winter (seasonal accounts)?


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## CP Paul (Sep 18, 2009)

snocrete;1314365 said:


> Sure it does, for him. What if you pay him more money that what he puts in for hrs plowing (light winter)? Do you have guaranteed income for the winter (seasonal accounts)?


Ya, almost all my accounts are seasonal. Its pretty common here because of the winters we have. Customers can either bet on the light winter side and pay per push but, if we have a big winter they pay way more. Or most go for seasonal and not have to worry.

And your right, I'm leaning towards paying a good wage only. But like I said earlier, don't want to lose a great guy to the big companies that are paying standby money.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

snocrete;1314365 said:


> Sure it does, for him. What if you pay him more money that what he puts in for hrs plowing (light winter)? Do you have guaranteed income for the winter (seasonal accounts)?


No light winters here,it wasn't big dollars either,after I reached my hours they I got paid for the additional work.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

snocrete;1314290 said:


> So if you have 0 events.....guys get 0 pay?.


I suppose in theory. Not likely that would ever happen.

Most of our employees are hourly, some are salary. As far as the hourly guys go, when you work you get paid. When you don't work, you don't get paid.


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## CP Paul (Sep 18, 2009)

TCLA;1314485 said:


> I suppose in theory. Not likely that would ever happen.
> 
> Most of our employees are hourly, some are salary. As far as the hourly guys go, when you work you get paid. When you don't work, you don't get paid.


...See this is how I felt. But this is why I started the thread, when I heard what other co's were doing I was so :realmad:


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

CP Paul;1314522 said:


> ...See this is how I felt. But this is why I started the thread, when I heard what other co's were doing I was so :realmad:


As long as there's an agreement between both party's, there's nothing wrong with getting creative with someone's pay. They have bills and a family to support too...hard to do this when there is no paycheck coming in.

If we go through lean weeks we will loan employee's money as a draw for future pay. I suppose the same thinking as some here. But we don't establish a draw system across the board as a common practice to retain employees.


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## bi-directional (Dec 11, 2010)

The guys around here that get paid standby are paid $xx standby per day and if they don't show up when called they lose their standby back to the last time they worked. We pay per hour and at the end of the year we pay a $2 per hour bonus for the guys that stayed for the whole season. It has worked better for us than just paying per hour.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Hey Paul, 

There are many ways to go about it. Depends on whos running what and the frequency of his shifts. 

Everyones situation is different. I would suggest you consider a method I brainstormed and used for a while and some friends of mine continue to use today. 

Determine a fair or generous hourly rate for your operator based on the number of hours you feel he will be working a season. Around here its not absurd to pay $20-$30 an hour or more for a good tractor or machine operator. Average hours would be 150-200 a season, give or take depending if hes doing push backs and loading or not. 

We used to ad a $1500.00 a year performance bonus, calculated daily and added to the employees cheque AFTER he completed a shift. This way, he not only would earn his wage, but would also be compensated for standing-by, There was a no-excuse policy tied to that bonus structure...meaning no reason would allow him not to come into work and still continue to accumulate a bonus. He would have to complete another shift before accumulating his bonus again. Strike 2 on the no-show meant he was gone!

Once you are comfortable with an operators capabilities, its easier to guarantee him X amount over a season.

Unfortunately there is no cheap way to get people to come out to work in a storm. 

Ask around....construction companies you may know, friends in the construction, or paving business and farmers are generally good source of winter employees. 

Good luck.


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## CP Paul (Sep 18, 2009)

bi-directional;1314971 said:


> The guys around here that get paid standby are paid $xx standby per day and if they don't show up when called they lose their standby back to the last time they worked. We pay per hour and at the end of the year we pay a $2 per hour bonus for the guys that stayed for the whole season. It has worked better for us than just paying per hour.


See, this is what I'm talking about. Getting useful ideas from guys who have a formula that is working.

Some good ideas Bi, thanks.



JohnnyRoyale;1315060 said:


> Hey Paul,
> 
> There are many ways to go about it. Depends on whos running what and the frequency of his shifts.
> 
> ...


Johnny, this strikes me as a very good method too. The bonus structure sounds solid because of the incentive part. I like the idea that there's a no excuse policy and for damned sure, 2 strikes and your toast.

I don't have multiple machines and therefore extra operators to fall back on. If they no-show, I'm going to have some very upset customers waiting forever.


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