# Customer problems



## AdambaycityMI

hello my names Adam I have been referencing the plow site for a while now and I ran in to a problem this year. I picked up a party store because there guy decided to not show up or call first snow fall. I said I would match his quote for30$ He has two stores and to residential drive ways in total 90$ job I don't have a contract signed yet because he believes 2 inches of snow 6inchs and 20 inches should be a charge of 30$ a store 15$ a drive way what should I do I don't want to lose him because we have had a bad snow year so far and I'm just starting my own customer base


----------



## SnoFarmer

How big are the lots and drives?

Have a 2" trigger and a snow/ blizzard clause to cya on thoes big storms.

I think you are not charging enough for various reasons .


----------



## ponyboy

Do you have insurance are you legal 
Why don't u have a contract 
With out a contract you don't have a leg to stand on


----------



## Mr.Markus

I would agree to his view that he pay what he wants and not show up on the first snowfall...


----------



## AdambaycityMI

SnoFarmer said:


> How big are the lots and drives?
> 
> Have a 2" trigger and a snow/ blizzard clause to cya on thoes big storms.
> 
> I think you are not charging enough for various reasons .


 First store is small 10 parking stalls 0ne entrance but is corner lot with sidewalk second store is twice its size no side walk two entrances next door to another parking lot I do


----------



## AdambaycityMI

ponyboy said:


> Do you have insurance are you legal
> Why don't u have a contract
> With out a contract you don't have a leg to stand on


I am a llc with General liability he hasn't signed the contract be cause of price I'm guessing because he has always used some random guy that plows for beer money with out a contract


----------



## Philbilly2

I understand that you want to build a customer base, but this does not sound to me like the customer base that you want to build...

You will learn in time that if you are not able to make money when you go to do something, it is not worth it to even start your truck. Insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc go up every day, and if you are going to get the same dollar if you push 2" as when you plow 2 feet, you need to just let this one go and look for an account that you can be profitable EVERY time that you start your truck. 

If you are going make an action as a business, to in end result loose money, it is not proactive for your business to do this action correct?

BUT....

If you HAVE to have this account, by all means do it. There will be someone that does not have to have it that will be willing to buy your stuff from you when are forced to go out of business. (Don't mean to be harsh here, but it is where you are headed if you don't stick to what you know in your head is the right way to run an operation)


----------



## AdambaycityMI

SnoFarmer said:


> How big are the lots and drives?
> 
> Have a 2" trigger and a snow/ blizzard clause to cya on thoes big storms.
> 
> I think you are not charging enough for various reasons .


I was shocked when he said he paid 30$ made me sick but I factored the time of work and travel between all 4 properties there was a small profit to be made the large side walk hurts me time wise the most


----------



## ponyboy

Then you should know not to do any work with out a signed contract 
You are at risk with out a contract 
At $30 that's not worth the head ache 

General liability is for auto 
do you have biz insurance that states your allowed and covered for snow plowing


----------



## Philbilly2

AdambaycityMI said:


> I was shocked when he said he paid 30$ made me sick but I factored the time of work and travel between all 4 properties there was a small profit to be made the large side walk hurts me time wise the most


I have a 12" ....

Nope, MJD says don't take threads that route anymore...

No, I am worth more that Trump... people lie chief...


----------



## Philbilly2

ponyboy said:


> Then you should know not to do any work with out a signed contract
> You are at risk with out a contract
> At $30 that's not worth the head ache
> 
> General liability is for auto
> do you have biz insurance that states your allowed and covered for snow plowing


GL is not for auto. GL is for business.

Auto is for auto.


----------



## Randall Ave

At the prices, and the customer's attitude, you no why the other guy did a no show.


----------



## leolkfrm

tell him on call only, on the spot quote take it or leave it, payment up front


----------



## ponyboy

Ok around here general liability is for auto with no collision business insuarnace I guess could be called the same so I guess I'm wrong 

But either way I wouldn't want this guy as a client and for the price of drive ways you are now exposed to slip and falls


----------



## Philbilly2

You see that you just became and addict with that post...


----------



## AdambaycityMI

Philbilly2 said:


> I understand that you want to build a customer base, but this does not sound to me like the customer base that you want to build...
> 
> You will learn in time that if you are not able to make money when you go to do something, it is not worth it to even start your truck. Insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc go up every day, and if you are going to get the same dollar if you push 2" as when you plow 2 feet, you need to just let this one go and look for an account that you can be profitable EVERY time that you start your truck.
> 
> If you are going make an action as a business, to in end result loose money, it is not proactive for your business to do this action correct?
> 
> BUT....
> 
> If you HAVE to have this account, by all means do it. There will be someone that does not have to have it that will be willing to buy your stuff from you when are forced to go out of business. (Don't mean to be harsh here, but it is where you are headed if you don't stick to what you know in your head is the right way to run an operation)


That is 100% how I feel but


ponyboy said:


> Then you should know not to do any work with out a signed contract
> You are at risk with out a contract
> At $30 that's not worth the head ache
> 
> General liability is for auto
> do you have biz insurance that states your allowed and covered for snow plowing


 yes I do my wife's mother


leolkfrm said:


> tell him on call only, on the spot quote take it or leave it, payment up front


 the one thing I have going for me is I get cash at last property I plowed both stores yesterday twice they are both 24 hours and he didn't like to be charged twice once at 3 inch and again at 2 he thinks o should wait till last minute do it all once I guess I will have to send him a letter his account will be on hold till contract is signed


----------



## AdambaycityMI

ponyboy said:


> Ok around here general liability is for auto with no collision business insuarnace I guess could be called the same so I guess I'm wrong
> 
> But either way I wouldn't want this guy as a client and for the price of drive ways you are now exposed to slip and falls


That was my biggest concern slip and fall so I made him sign every receipt stating not responsible for slip and fall not sure how legally it will stand but also didn't know it would take this long for contract I started in Clio mi were I work for a asphalt company that plows in winter the owner told me ur time is worth 100$ per hour no less but when I surveyed my area its been littered with low ballers it's hard to get what u deserve


----------



## ponyboy

I don't know your area you do need to make money do what u have to 
Make sure you cover your ass with a good contract 
Good insurance 
Make sure you are legal 
After that do your best job u take on at any price 
If u feel the job is cheap and u cut a corner it could cost u a lot of money in the long run 
Gald to see people working not just collecting unemployment


----------



## AdambaycityMI

AdambaycityMI said:


> That is 100% how I feel but
> yes I do my wife's mother
> 
> the one thing I have going for me is I get cash at last property I plowed both stores yesterday twice they are both 24 hours and he didn't like to be charged twice once at 3 inch and again at 2 he thinks o should wait till last minute do it all once I guess I will have to send him a letter his account will be on hold till contract is signed


I ment to say my wife's mother works with progressive and she set me up for my commercial insurance


----------



## ponyboy

When u say commercial is that for your truck or for your business


----------



## kimber750

AdambaycityMI said:


> That was my biggest concern slip and fall so I made him sign every receipt stating not responsible for slip and fall not sure how legally it will stand but also didn't know it would take this long for contract I started in Clio mi were I work for a asphalt company that plows in winter the owner told me ur time is worth 100$ per hour no less but when I surveyed my area its been littered with low ballers it's hard to get what u deserve


So if you can't beat em' join em? Like others I suggest you just walk away, not worth the risk/cost.


----------



## Philbilly2

ponyboy said:


> When u say commercial is that for your truck or for your business


I might have been the one who was wrong here...

I have never heard of progressive offering gl insurance?

Op... General Liability insurance not just on you truck. Gl is on you llc.

Does you llc carry a gl policy outside of your auto owner policy?


----------



## AdambaycityMI

Philbilly2 said:


> I might have been the one who was wrong here...
> 
> I have never heard of progressive offering gl insurance?
> 
> Op... General Liability insurance not just on you truck. Gl is on you llc.
> 
> Does you llc carry a gl policy outside of your auto owner policy?


It called commercial auto insurance how else can u insure ur truck and operate on others property I guess I'm confused what are You asking and how do u insure your operation


----------



## AdambaycityMI

ponyboy said:


> When u say commercial is that for your truck or for your business


Truck


----------



## ponyboy

To do commercial work is your business insured for snow 
To be a legal business you need business insurance covering your fornyhe work you do and that must state the your are cover for snow removal or you will loose everything you have if you don't have business insurance


----------



## ktfbgb

Adam to do snow removal you must have at least two policies.

Commercial Auto for the truck

General Liability insurance for the business. 

These two are the minimum, some states may need more for proper coverage. 

The commercial auto covers you driving from site to site just like your normal auto insurance, but it's commercial auto because you are using the truck to make money. It will cover you if you get in an accident on the road.

General Liability covers any damage caused by the act of plowing. Commercial auto will not touch that. So if you break a curb, or rip out a man hole cover, or hit a gas line, or hit a person while plowing the lot, or if someone slips and falls in a lot you Service, general Liability with the addition of line specific snow and ice removal, is what covers these. Again Commercial auto will only cover if you get in an accident while driving on a road.


----------



## AdambaycityMI

ponyboy said:


> To do commercial work is your business insured for snow
> To be a legal business you need business insurance covering your fornyhe work you do and that must state the your are cover for snow removal or you will loose everything you have if you don't have business insurance


 general liability is for the business commercial auto covers operating truck and yes progressive does and is cheaper the State Farm


----------



## ponyboy

ktfbgb said:


> Adam to do snow removal you must have at least two policies.
> 
> Commercial Auto for the truck
> 
> General Liability insurance for the business.
> 
> These two are the minimum, some states may need more for proper coverage.
> 
> The commercial auto covers you driving from site to site just like your normal auto insurance, but it's commercial auto because you are using the truck to make money. It will cover you if you get in an accident on the road.
> 
> General Liability covers any damage caused by the act of plowing. Commercial auto will not touch that. So if you break a curb, or rip out a man hole cover, or hit a gas line, or hit a person while plowing the lot, or if someone slips and falls in a lot you Service, general Liability with the addition of line specific snow and ice removal, is what covers these. Again Commercial auto will only cover if you get in an accident while driving on a road.


That's better then I could say and 100% correct 
So do u have the 2 different insurance policies 
I don't think progressive does business insurance


----------



## AdambaycityMI

ponyboy said:


> That's better then I could say and 100% correct
> So do u have the 2 different insurance policies
> I don't think progressive does business insurance


Yes I have one policie for my business one for plow and one for my personal vehicles one bill tho


----------



## ponyboy

Who does your business insurance


----------



## Philbilly2

AdambaycityMI said:


> It called commercial auto insurance how else can u insure ur truck and operate on others property I guess I'm confused what are You asking and how do u insure your operation


Gl is written on an accord 25 format form.

Auto insurance is on a little card in the glovebox.

Does 1 million general/ 2 million aggregate sound like somthing you have on your gl?


----------



## AdambaycityMI

AdambaycityMI said:


> Yes I have one policie for my business one for plow and one for my personal vehicles one bill tho


----------



## Philbilly2

Yeah... I still don't think they offer gl.

Google.... here I come.


----------



## Philbilly2

And I stand corrected yet again...


----------



## AdambaycityMI

Philbilly2 said:


> Yeah... I still don't think they offer gl.
> 
> Google.... here I come.


----------



## AdambaycityMI

Philbilly2 said:


> And I stand corrected yet again...


So now I ask why we had to talk about insurance so much when when I was wondering how you guys Handel stubborn customers that might not be worth it's time


----------



## ponyboy

I learned something new today might have to call flow for a quote


----------



## ponyboy

I asked to make sure you are covered with commercial plowing


----------



## kimber750

AdambaycityMI said:


> So now I ask why we had to talk about insurance so much when when I was wondering how you guys Handel stubborn customers that might not be worth it's time


Because you kind of lumped yourself in with the low ballers. I don't deal with stubborn customers. Not worth my time or energy. They accept my price or they can find someone else.


----------



## LogansLawnCare

If you truly think that it's not worth your time don't do it. As you said you are trying to build your customer base so if it's worth it for now than just do it for the season.

As far as being paid the same amount no matter how much it snows I would not agree to that. When you get a big heavy snow that takes twice as long $30 a piece for those lots will not be worth your time and effort. 

Sounds like you need to explain to him why more snow costs more money to plow and get him to sign an agreement or as others have said get him to pay each time up front. If he pays you that day and it's a large snow it would put more pressure on him to pay you more than the $90.


----------



## Philbilly2

AdambaycityMI said:


> So now I ask why we had to talk about insurance so much when when I was wondering how you guys Handel stubborn customers that might not be worth it's time


I did answer your original question in my defense... My apologies on the insurance derail... I guess when you pay 30k a year for somthing you have never even used on your corp, makes you a bit touchy when new folks come in and say they have it all covered.


----------



## Philbilly2

I wish it was not impolitically correct to ask the nationally of this "person"...


----------



## Philbilly2

But when has that ever stopped me?


----------



## AdambaycityMI

LogansLawnCare said:


> If you truly think that it's not worth your time don't do it. As you said you are trying to build your customer base so if it's worth it for now than just do it for the season.
> 
> As far as being paid the same amount no matter how much it snows I would not agree to that. When you get a big heavy snow that takes twice as long $30 a piece for those lots will not be worth your time and effort.
> 
> Sounds like you need to explain to him why more snow costs more money to plow and get him to sign an agreement or as others have said get him to pay each time up front. If he pays you that day and it's a large snow it would put more pressure on him to pay you more than the $90.


Thank you guys u helped me out I was leaning to drop him it's just operating cost are hurting this is my first year I had to pay for my own expenses and turning work down is hard thanks again


----------



## ktfbgb

Philbilly2 said:


> But when has that ever stopped me?


Lmao.

Hey did you fill out for an online quote or anything? Curious about this Progressive GL, they are so big and multi state that one could reason it could be a possibility that they might be cheaper.


----------



## AdambaycityMI

Philbilly2 said:


> I wish it was not impolitically correct to ask the nationally of this "person"...


L o L these stores are very similar to the quickie mart on the simpsons


----------



## kimber750

AdambaycityMI said:


> Thank you guys u helped me out I was leaning to drop him it's just operating cost are hurting this is my first year I had to pay for my own expenses and turning work down is hard thanks again


Imagine how bad expenses will be when you are paying to plow this guys properties. Or you damage/break something at this low paying account and loose your better accounts because you are down.


----------



## ktfbgb

AdambaycityMI said:


> L o L these stores are very similar to the quickie mart on the simpsons


LMOA again. I have several of those customers and they are actually my fastest paying customers and have never bat an eye on my pricing or a bill. I guess I got lucky because I have seen many stories on here about them being cheap.


----------



## AdambaycityMI

AdambaycityMI said:


> L o L these stores are very similar to the quickie mart on the simpsons


I couldn't say nationality for sure but that's the best way I can describe


----------



## Philbilly2

ktfbgb said:


> LMOA again. I have several of those customers and they are actually my fastest paying customers and have never bat an eye on my pricing or a bill. I guess I got lucky because I have seen many stories on here about them being cheap.


They are a very hit or miss "group"

Some are great, some you cannot beat a nickel out of with a bat...


----------

