# Hydraulic fluid for Meyers E47 pump



## wsmm (Jan 15, 2002)

I'm currently using the recommended hydraulic fuild in my Meyers E47 unit. It's on a 79 Dodge Ramcharger. Purchasing either the Meyer's brand of a generic fuild is rather expensive. Does anyone out there use anything besides the recommended fuild? If so what do you use? If I knew the chemical makeup and what's it's base was I might have someone that could locate a substitute. If you use an alternative fuild have you experienced any problems because of it?

Thanks..
BIll


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## firefighter (Oct 23, 2002)

*Fluid*

I use to have a myers 7'6" angle plow on my truck. I used Transmission oil and so did other people in my area. I now run a V 8'2" boss.


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## Garagekeeper (Jan 18, 2002)

*Fluids*

Stay with the recomended fluids, they are designed for low temperature operation and contain rust inhibitors and non foaming agents, and are really what your pump needs. Your pump; motor and valves will work easier with less current draw. Just about all the plow manufactures call for use of a quality low temp hydraulic fliud in their power units.  John


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## digger242j (Nov 22, 2001)

Anybody have any good reasons to use only genuine Meyer fluid, as opposed to the more generic costing brands?


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## Ohiosnow (Sep 20, 2001)

*Meyer fluid*

it's all I ever used as I got it at dealer cost. I now have a BOSS plow & have a in for getting it at a very good price.

If the generic brand has all the same extras in it then I see no reason not to use it. :waving:

PS: I never had half the problems that my buddy had with his generic fluid in his Meyer  but I always thought it was him, like not flushing everthing.


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## Garagekeeper (Jan 18, 2002)

*Other Fluids*

No as long as it meets or exceides their specs. I use Kendall's Glacier Blue low temp hydraulic fluid in "all" my new installs, and have for more than eigth years. During service schools this was addressed many times, they really just what you to use a quality low temp hydraulic fluid. Sure they all would like you to use their brand fluids but did not have a problem with using someone else's, as long as it met the spec. John


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## reondo (Nov 23, 2018)

I drained and flushed with kerosene now I need to add hydro fluid. I use a hydrotran hydro fluid for me case DX 35 backhoe will this work


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## reondo (Nov 23, 2018)

Also can I use a thin piece of wood to measure the 1 1/2 inch from the top of the pump. Approximately how much fluid does the 47 pump require


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## reondo (Nov 23, 2018)

reondo said:


> Also can I use a thin piece of wood to measure the 1 1/2 inch from the top of the pump. Approximately how much fluid does the 47 pump require


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## reondo (Nov 23, 2018)

reondo said:


> I drained and flushed with kerosene now I need to add hydro fluid. I use a hydrotran hydro fluid for me case DX 35 backhoe will this work


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

No idea what the viscosity of that fluid is, but the answer is probably no. Implement hydraulic fluid is usually way too thick for plow use. Break open the wallet and buy the right fluid if you want the plow to work.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Um, no. Go get the correct fluid. A lot of Napa stores are keeping a small selection of plow items.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I've read on here a few people having trouble running anything besides meyer fluid. They're what, $10 each? I wouldn't risk it over a couple dollars.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Many plow fluids are basically Mil-PRF-5606. I posted a long winded reply earlier this month....

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/meyer-diamond-edge-hydraulic-fluid-ontario.174917/

It's unclear as to what M-1 actually is...…

In 2007, it was an ISO 4 hydraulic fluid (see section 9)

http://www.beilerhydraulics.com/msd...int/MY15134 Myer Hydraulic Fluid Type M-1.pdf

Today, it appears to basically be an iso 32 fluid.

http://ww2.meyerproducts.com/upload/forms/Meyer Hydraulic Fluid Type M-1 MSDS 12-16-10.pdf

Some ads claim that M-1 meets Mil-PRF-5606

https://berwynlawnmower.com/pre-owned/meyer-hydraulic-fluid-m1-quart/

However, neither of the MSDSs I found for M-1 would meet the Mil-PRF-5606 specification, which is for an iso 13 or so fluid.

http://everyspec.com/MIL-PRF/MIL-PRF-000100-09999/MIL-PRF-5606H_5993/

I'd never say not to use a manufacturer's fluid, but I also think for most plow applications 5606 would be fine. Boss plow fluid is an ISO 15 fluid.

5606 is available from Aircraft Spruce, your local oil jobber, and other fine retailers.....


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

synthetic ATF like atf +4.....or
Any hydraulic fluid /UTO with at least a AW32
Vis

Your plow pump couldn’t be any more simple, there’s not much to wear out in there.
special Meyer hydraulic fluid is not needed.

They didn’t use special seals that are going to be damaged by any of these other fluids .
Power units are all basically the same


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## info4tim (Oct 27, 2013)

digger242j said:


> Anybody have any good reasons to use only genuine Meyer fluid, as opposed to the more generic costing brands?


^^^^^^^^^ THIS!!


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

I just buy the generic blue fluid. I get it in 5 gal buckets, never had an issue.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Have had many Meyer pumps come in for rebuild that had ATF in them. Most the time it was cheaper to replace the pump than rebuild it. Guessing cold ATF puts a lot of extra load on pump and motor. Not saying pumps haven't been trashed using Meyer spec fluid, just seemed to be more common on those that were not using it. The real question is, is that $15-20 you saved worth having the pump quit during a storm?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

The concern is why are Meyer pumps
Wearing out quicker....
As atf has always been a common
substitute .

Could it be cheap pumps made in China?
Junk in the system from assembly?

Don’t blame synthic atf as it has a lower pour point.

Or We would be running Meyer fluid in our transmissions in our trucks as it’s a superior hydraulic fluid...

Whatever you dealers need to push fluid off the shelves.

As the nearest dealer with spec fluid for my plow is over a hr away on a good day ,driving there...yeah ,,,it is cost prohibitive. 

I have plows made by 3 different mfg 
One is over 30yrs old , it has used ATF from when it blew its first hose.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Hydromaster said:


> The concern is why are Meyer pumps
> ...
> Don't blame synthic atf as it has a lower pour point.


You keep talking about synthetic ATF. You do realize that not all ATF is synthetic, right?

Or are you just assuming that every random guy who refuses to buy plow fluid and wants to use the random half empty qt in his garage must have synthetic for some reason?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

cwren2472 said:


> You keep talking about synthetic ATF. You do realize that not all ATF is synthetic, right?
> 
> Or are you just assuming that every random guy who refuses to buy plow fluid and wants to use the random half empty qt in his garage must have synthetic for some reason?


Nope, it's you who is assuming.

I said synthetic for that reason.
Or I could have said atf+4.

I just had a hose let loose today, I dumped in some hydraulic fluid out of a black jug that had no stickers on it at all. Some aw32....

I just get a kick out of you guys thinking that these pumps are such a fine piece of machinery when they're really very crude


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Hydromaster said:


> Nope, it's you who is assuming.
> 
> I said synthetic for that reason.
> Or I could have said atf+4.
> ...


No one on here has argued that only meyer OEM fluid will work and anything else will make it explode. No one has argued that there aren't substitutes which will work fine. Yet everyone who asks if any old random fluid will work, you chime in with your synthetic atf and imply that only suckers will buy plow fluid, just use anything liquidy.

Exactly like you did in the post above where you talk about pulling hydraulic fluid out of a barrel. It seems like you are deliberately trying to mislead people and I dont know why.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Spoken like a true plow dealer and a ...,.
It’s you who is goating me in to a argument 
And that is trolling. 

Yea I did use some fluid out of a “jug” That the label had fallen off of I believe it was a mag to fluid or something like that I don’t was a hydraulic fluid within aw rating of 32 it’ll be OK until he gets his below -30°F...

Maybe next time it blows a hose I’ll put some synthetic ATF is atf+4 in her to thin it up a little..

Why are you so uptight ?
like you, I share information in different places .why are you so uptight about My posts are they cutting into your sales of Meyer fluid or something? 

I know you’re a dealer and you have to push that company product & you are assuming .

Have a great day.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

You found me out. There goes my retirement on fluid sales.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Just use Amsoil and all will the good......


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

All our "big" trucks with either central or direct drive hydros run AW32...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> All our "big" trucks with either central or direct drive hydros run AW32...


That's nice...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> That's nice...


I thought so...


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I'm just confused as to why everyone is constantly fighting for ATF. It's not like Meyer is getting rich on their fluid, and charging $50 a qt. Synthetic ATF is what, $6-7 a qt? Meyer fluid is $10. I'd rather pay an extra $3 for piece of mind, regardless if it actually means anything.

You dont even use a whole qt filling the pump...


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> You found me out. There goes my retirement on fluid sales.


And for not even a brand you offer? Are you running a side gig trying to bring in the big bucks on Meyer fluid?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JMHConstruction said:


> And for not even a brand you offer? Are you running a side gig trying to bring in the big bucks on Meyer fluid?


It's all about the hustle


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Hydromaster said:


> I just get a kick out of you guys thinking that these pumps are such a fine piece of machinery when they're really very crude


Meyer pumps are extremely crude. Which also makes them extremely simple. As for fluid, I can make a suggestion but in the end it is up to the owner. Doesn't bother me at all. I have put ATF in a Meyer in a pinch. I only use ATF in my Fisher.

As for you earlier post I have no idea why the pumps I have seen with ATF in them seem to have more wear. Maybe fluid, maybe been longer since rebuild, maybe owner didn't care, I could keep going but it is all guess work. In the end it is your pump put what you want in it.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Hydromaster said:


> The concern is why are Meyer pumps
> Wearing out quicker....
> As atf has always been a common
> substitute .
> ...


ATF has different design requirements than other hydraulic fluids, and their requirements (and additive packages) are not the same as for other applications. Pour point is by no means the be-all and end-all. My articulated trucks allow the use of motor oil as hydraulic fluid, but I would never do it. Similarly, I wouldn't use UDT in a system where the hydraulic system and transmission are split. It doesn't mean you can't, it's just not optimal.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Ah ,Ok

I have and do run hydraulic systems in the winter time that use a non-detergent 10W weight in the aux hyd, your point?

While other hydraulic systems call for ATF in the drive and there auxiliary units, those crazy engineers and let her fluids.

But that is moot as We are not talking about your articulated trucks or any other piece of equipment, were talking about the little crude pump in our plow hyd units.

Have we all peed?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> Ah ,Ok
> 
> I have and do run hydraulic systems in the winter time that use a non-detergent 10W weight in the aux hyd, your point?
> 
> ...


 Speaking of pee, you could get away with using it in a plow, not optimum , but it will get it done.We get your point, plows are a very simple system. No internal clutches etc ….Use what you want/are comfortable with.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Hydromaster said:


> Ah ,Ok
> 
> I have and do run hydraulic systems in the winter time that use a non-detergent 10W weight in the aux hyd, your point?
> 
> ...


Actually, it's not moot. My articulated trucks, my boom lift, most of my tractors, every Cessna/Beech/Piper single and twin propeller airplane with a hydraulic system, use the same simple gear pump design as most plow pumps. Why? Because it works, is more tolerant of contamination than other designs.

Other than contamination, viscosity issues dominate wear. Using Eaton recommendation (Bosch, Parker, and others have similar recommendations), the most a gear pump can tolerate is 2000 centistokes on startup, 6 as a minimum, and 16-40 as optimal.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@hyd/documents/content/pct_500331.pdf

So let's look a bit further and see what properties synthetic ATF has. Using data from Amsoil's MSDS for it's Signature Series Synthetic ATF (which is basically identical in the relevant criteria to Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF), the viscosity at 40C is 38.5 centistokes, and is 7.5 centistokes at 100C. Basically this is an ISO 40 hydraulic fluid, with a fairly average viscosity index. ATF fluids don't need a very high viscosity index because they run at a relatively constant temperature and have coolers. Thus, if your oil temperature is less than 40C during operation, Synthetic ATF would be expected to prematurely wear the pump. There is no low temperature viscosity given for Synthetic ATF that I could find.

Shell Tellus S3V46 has a viscosity of 46 at 40C/100F, and 8.4 at 100C/212F, and 2200 at -20C/-4F. If ATF is close to this at low temperatures, then it is outside the startup recommendation, and the reservoir would need to be heated before the plow is operated in order not to cause damage.

Mil-5606H, which is what most plow fluids I have data on are similar to, has a viscosity of 6.13 at 100C, 15.6 at 40C, 384 at -40C. So at the low end of optimum at 40C, meets the minimum up to 100C, and is well below the startup viscosity requirement even at -40C.

If you are running a continuously operating hydraulic system, such as a truck hydro, you can use a thicker fluid since you don't have chilled fluid for very long. It is the viscosity at operating temperature that dominates the wear characteristics (as well as additives). Engineers will specify different fluids depending on the viscosity requirement, the operational temperatures, the types of valves, etc. For plows that operate intermittently, with a small reservoir exposed to the elements, the low temperature viscosity can be critical.

Another issue is that hydraulic fluids must be designed to cope with water and dirt ingestion through seals and breathers as hydraulic rams move. Automatic transmissions do not have this issue, and thus their additive package is different.

For further reading:
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@hyd/documents/content/pct_2827319.pdf


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

It is moot.
But let’s kick the dead horse again
First
Amaoil makes nothing.


ATF is a hydraulic fluid.
The fluid in Automatic transmissions does get contamination. It’s why they have filters.
Our plows generate very little heat so they don’t need coolers...



Pumps ,
so you’re truck used a similar
Pump , well so does a lot of other things
Like the oil pump in a engine.

Viscosity; ca. 32mm2/s (40c)
Has a lower cold pour point than most plow fluids

Another issue is comtamation.
Our plows are so crude/cheaply made they recommend changing the fluid yearly as
Opposed to a transmission with higher quality
Flirtation with a longer change interval .

Do you change the aux hyd fluid yearly on your
Truck ,dozer, backhoe etc etc?

Use whatever, atf or pee.....


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Ps
Had to shake off a few drops...

ATF+4 has a cold pour point of -54 °F.

A hydro fluid with a ISO VISCOSITY of 22 has a cold pour point . -42*F

From pensoil,
ATF+4 also is backward compatible for service fill where Chrysler ATF+3®, ATF+2® or Type 7176 ATF is called for in all applications in transmissions, power steering systems and hydraulic systems. This high quality transmission fluid is fully approved by Chrysler for all brands.

And”hydraulic systems “


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Hydromaster said:


> Ps
> Had to shake off a few drops...
> 
> ATF+4 has a cold pour point of -54 °F.
> ...


You don't own any Walter trucks by any chance, do you?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

I have to go chase some drifts and
It’s only 3°F I sure hope that atf+4 will
Flo. 

But the Anti-foaming, friction modifiers and the other additive package will all help protect my very expensive Precision plow pump working.... ha ha ha
Even without an auxiliary cooler


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## the Suburbanite (Jan 27, 2018)

JMHConstruction said:


> You don't own any Walter trucks by any chance, do you?


I've been thinking this for a while

edit: similar sentence structures in many posts


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

^
From your post one could assume the same about you 

I see there are a couple of Jr.detectives you really need to get jobs or you lack snow.


No Walters .
And that isn’t what this discussion is about is it.


Back on topic.....
Wow, I’m amazed at how smooth & fast my 19 year-old plow continues to function while having atf in it for 18 years.


Use whatever fluid your heart desires.
I was just stating a fact that your plow wasn’t going to wear out any faster, explode run slower ,clog up etc. etc. etc. if you use a synthetic ATF or a different fluid then the manufactures fluid.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> ^
> From your post one could assume the same about you
> 
> I see there are a couple of Jr.detectives you really need to get jobs or you lack snow.
> ...


Jr Detectives......Thumbs Up

It's been pretty well established plow pumps/hydraulic systems are pretty primitive and they're run on OEM fluid and Synthetic AFT. Since plows don't see the same usage or duty cycles and loads the same as hydro systems in planes, auto transmissions and heavy equipment along with more frequent or lower hour system flushing and service which is primarily done due to moisture the performance additives etc.... in OEM or Sny AFT are a moot point. There's plenty of people that use Sny ATF, generic hydro oil and OEM oil with no problems. I know in areas where you're choices are limited using what's available locally is sometimes your only choice.

Now a little oof topic here but still ties into the topic.....
My wardens grandpa and uncle use the same hyro fluid they use in their tractors as motor oil in there ATV and UTV's during the winter dew to the cold temps. They get aboot 15-17k <> miles out of the machines before they need to be replaced which is typically due to electronic failures or the chassis being worn oot, not due to motor failure.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

JMHConstruction said:


> You don't own any Walter trucks by any chance, do you?


He's on another site, giving advice to people


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

The use of motor oil like a 10w has been mentioned earlier in this discussion, as a hydraulic fluid.

A synthetic 0-5w might even work in a pinch...
( for a snow plow)


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Randall Ave said:


> He's on another site, giving advice to people


Did you forget the quotes around "advice"?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> The use of motor oil like a 10w has been mentioned earlier in this discussion, as a hydraulic fluid.
> 
> A synthetic 0-5w might even work in a pinch...
> ( for a snow plow)


My Scag Zturn mower uses 20-50W sny motor oil for the hyros in the Parker pumps.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Hydromaster said:


> ^
> From your post one could assume the same about you
> 
> I see there are a couple of Jr.detectives you really need to get jobs or you lack snow.
> ...


You haven't changed the fluid in 18 years?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

JMHConstruction said:


> You don't own any Walter trucks by any chance, do you?


 Very good! Now that you mention it.Thumbs Up


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

BossPlow2010 said:


> You haven't changed the fluid in 18 years?


And it still works just fine, 
I just pour in whatever fluid that is handy...

Or

I have changed the fluid on a regular 
Schedule.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Hydromaster said:


> And it still works just fine,
> I just pour in whatever fluid that is handy...
> 
> Or
> ...


That's good, you usng OEM plow fluid or something else?


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

BossPlow2010 said:


> That's good, you usng OEM plow fluid or something else?


:laugh:


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Nevermind, it would have gottn erased.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Randall Ave said:


> Nevermind, it would have gottn erased.


Quitter........


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I'm still trying to get some action, inside the house. 
Getting this old train back on the tracks, Synthetic ATF is more $ than regular plow fluid, so whats the point, put in what its called for.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

A pic from the installation guide for my plow
They list atf , but atf+4 has a much lower cold pour point.



Randall Ave said:


> Synthetic ATF is more $ than regular plow fluid, so whats the point, put in what its called for.


And the nearest store with "plow fluid" is a 
40 minute drive one way, on a good day and they would need to be open.
I can get atf at the local C-store.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

If its that far away, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Things are closer here, I get three cases of plow fluid every fall. Gets the price down a bit.


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