# Chain vs Direct, Hiniker vs Western. HELP



## spencer087 (Sep 10, 2008)

OK, this will be my first year plowing with a truck. I have been plowing with a small utility tractor and have decided to get a truck plow as i have gained many accounts. I have a 2010 Dodge 3500 DRW regular cab 6 speed the plow will be going on. I mainly would like to know your thoughts on a plow? We mainly have Western and Hiniker so that brings me to a few questions. 

Hiniker- Are the brand new ones still breaking forks???

Western- They have a vplow i can get where hiniker does not. But it has chain lift. 

What are the differences between direct and chain lift? Besides Short chaining and obvious one lifts with a chain and one scissor type.

I would mainly like to know why people dont like the chain lift or they like direct lift better?

Thank you all!


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## ihdriver7088 (Jan 10, 2010)

hiniker does make a v plow check it www.hiniker.com

chain lifts are good incase your lift quits and you can chain it up to limp home

direct lift is great if you want instant movement when you hit the controls

just an fyi my expierence is mostly meyer and boss and very little western and none on hiniker 
since i and my friends mostly use boss and meyer


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## PLOWMAN45 (Jul 2, 2003)

I have a new western ultra mount its way better then a hinker


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

ihdriver7088;1099170 said:


> hiniker does make a v plow check it www.hiniker.com
> 
> chain lifts are good in case your lift quits and you can chain it up to limp home


I really really REALLY get tired of hearing this excuse for chain lift

If you plow you probably have or should have a tow strap or chain in the truck for when you get stuck. Why cant you use that to hold the plow up?

drive the plow into a pile of snow so it rides up on the snow and use your tow strap/chain to hold the plow up.


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

theplowmeister;1099186 said:


> I really really REALLY get tired of hearing this excuse for chain lift
> 
> If you plow you probably have or should have a tow strap or chain in the truck for when you get stuck. Why cant you use that to hold the plow up?
> 
> drive the plow into a pile of snow so it rides up on the snow and use your tow strap/chain to hold the plow up.


If you buy the emergency kit from any of the major companies it comes with a ratchet strap for the direct lift. For events with too small of piles to get lift, use you emergency truck jack and find a good spot on the frame, try to use something to keep the blade from falling off of the jack (I've used stacked bags of salt. Then put the ratchet on when you have it lifted. Ratchet until it is where you need. Then you can move.

The chain just helps with having a contained unit. Boss is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy faster than Hiniker. I tested one when I was in NY on a trip. It is a quality plow, but I would recommend going another route (unless their C-plow appeals to you, then stick with hiniker and keep the same mounting system). Hiniker doesn't have anything special other than their C.

IHdriver and I kinda just went through this in another thread. If you want insta-touch go Boss. No one else compares. If you want chain lift and full hydraulic (front, back, left, right) movement then go with Meyer. I have a lot of areas with very few places to put snow and a big need for stacking. Since I travel on Main St. a lot I use a pickup. I chose Meyer because of the full hydraulic return. Boss has springs to return the V. If you stack high in small spots, it may be appealing to have these other motions in order to "walk" your plow out of a pile. I have done it before with straight blades and it beats calling another truck off of route to get unstuck!

Here is what I would do......
*direct lift*
-Boss
-Hiniker
-blizzard
(in that order)

*chain lift*
-Meyer
-Western (bleh!)
-Fisher
(in that order)

and then if you do driveways, there's SnoWay with their "downforce" system.


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

Oh, and don't forget dealer support!!!!!!!!!!!! Who are your local dealers?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

DaytonBioLawns;1099191 said:


> Oh, and don't forget dealer support!!!!!!!!!!!! Who are your local dealers?


Dealer support is very important, especially if you are not very familiar with plows. There are a couple recent threads comparing the Hiniker Vee to the Western Vee.

The Western wouldn't be my first choice....


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

2COR517;1099200 said:


> Dealer support is very important, especially if you are not very familiar with plows. There are a couple recent threads comparing the Hiniker Vee to the Western Vee.
> 
> The Western wouldn't be my first choice....


I hear that! I'm a pretty die hard meyer guy. I've gone just about every route to save money or to get quality... and it brings me back to Meyer. Try Snow Dogg...I have one and it is a sweet plow. Their MD75 is the best out there when it comes to utility/quality/and ease on the wallet. I just hate their mounting system. Can't stand that POS jack. Everything else is awesome. I'd compare snow dogg to a mix of Boss and Meyer, which equals one Bad A$$ plow.


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

theplowmeister;1099186 said:


> I really really REALLY get tired of hearing this excuse for chain lift
> 
> If you plow you probably have or should have a tow strap or chain in the truck for when you get stuck. Why cant you use that to hold the plow up?
> 
> drive the plow into a pile of snow so it rides up on the snow and use your tow strap/chain to hold the plow up.


yes sir! :salute: I'd use a ratchet strap


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## PLOWMAN45 (Jul 2, 2003)

DaytonBioLawns;1099190 said:


> If you buy the emergency kit from any of the major companies it comes with a ratchet strap for the direct lift. For events with too small of piles to get lift, use you emergency truck jack and find a good spot on the frame, try to use something to keep the blade from falling off of the jack (I've used stacked bags of salt. Then put the ratchet on when you have it lifted. Ratchet until it is where you need. Then you can move.
> 
> The chain just helps with having a contained unit. Boss is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy faster than Hiniker. I tested one when I was in NY on a trip. It is a quality plow, but I would recommend going another route (unless their C-plow appeals to you, then stick with hiniker and keep the same mounting system). Hiniker doesn't have anything special other than their C.
> 
> ...


Western over meyer yeah right


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## spencer087 (Sep 10, 2008)

i knew about the tow strap thing and i carry all that on my truck to pull lawn mowers unstuck and to tie down landscape materials. I have a lawn and landscape businessand i decided to get into plowing mainly because there are not that many guys around here that do it (we dont get much snow). Last year a gas station begged me to plow they couldnt find anyone to bid! as far as dealers im VERY limited

One dealer sells Hiniker and Western

Meyer lists a dealer here also but i dont think they have anything in stock. Ive never heard of them to carry snow plows.

I knew about Hinikers v plow it looks nice but according to them it is too heavy to be put on my truck 

Westerns v plow 8.5 MVP isin't listed as too heavy according to them.

The nearest boss dealer is 3.5 hours away from me if you run 70 on the highway 

Is there any other downfall to a chain lift besides waiting for it too lift? how long do you have to wait?

Are the newer hinikers still breaking mounts?

Thank you all for the replies


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## PLOWMAN45 (Jul 2, 2003)

are you in a race i mean if its secind diffrence waiting for chain to lift mine are fast


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## spencer087 (Sep 10, 2008)

No no race i was just wondering how long because iv'e seen people say that before on this site. (waiting on chain lift) I just watched the video on the Western Pro Plus and MVP Plus and their Ultra mount. Impressive. The hiniker looks impressive as well. The western looks better built though? the torsion bars and the bar going across the bottom. Also i like how the plow can pivot independent of the mount (like my kubota ZD's) 

What are the downfalls of the western? are they having any issues? 

Does anyone know if hiniker is still breaking mounts? that really scares me i don't want to be going down the highway and my plow fall off and cause a huge accident


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

i have seen a couple hiniker v blades in person at the dealer, i have to say they look like they are built decent, however the thought of the mounts breaking scares me away from them. when i need my plow i need it, i dont have time to wait for a dealer to get a part or what not thats why i bought a boss!


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## sno commander (Oct 16, 2007)

you wont be dissapointed in the western. the hydros are very fast by the time you stop to change gears the plow will be up.


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## PLOWMAN45 (Jul 2, 2003)

the 2 westerns we have one is 6 years and is 1 year old there hasnt been any problems and i need something i can to dealer or napa


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## Pushin 2 Please (Dec 15, 2009)

If you want a direct lift get The Boss. Stay away from Hiniker. There fork design is pi$$ poor. Chain lift I would do a Western.


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## spencer087 (Sep 10, 2008)

Noone sells boss in my area. Nearest dealer is in Kansas City (3.5 hours away)

Some of the chevy dealers are selling trucks with boss v's attached. But no dealer support for a boss around here all of that is done at the motorpool.

What is the benefit of a direct lift over a chain lift?


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## gtstang462002 (Dec 23, 2009)

spencer087;1099412 said:


> Noone sells boss in my area. Nearest dealer is in Kansas City (3.5 hours away)
> 
> Some of the chevy dealers are selling trucks with boss v's attached. But no dealer support for a boss around here all of that is done at the motorpool.
> 
> What is the benefit of a direct lift over a chain lift?


The only benefit that I have been able to come away with for the direct lift over the chain is supposedly there isn't as much bounce when you are riding with the plow at a lowered height for airflow to the radiator (i.e. going over railroad tracks, causing a heavy bounce). Though I am sure that there will probably be a good bounce with any system if you hit those bumps too hard. I personally like the pump location on the chain lift systems because it is up a little higher keeping a little more direct moisture off of it. The bottom line comes down to dealer support in your area, then quality of product as it appeals to you. On a 3500 you should be good for any plow that is around 1000# or less IMO.


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

spencer087;1099412 said:


> Noone sells boss in my area. Nearest dealer is in Kansas City (3.5 hours away)
> 
> Some of the chevy dealers are selling trucks with boss v's attached. But no dealer support for a boss around here all of that is done at the motorpool.
> 
> What is the benefit of a direct lift over a chain lift?


The only real benefit is response from the controller....And some chain lift plows have "chain slap" where they bounce when they hit. I have never had chain slap though, and I even had the Lowes version of a chain plow a while back..... It made me $1200 a day in my pocket and never needed service LOL. but ya that POS didn't even have chain slap, and chain slap can be an easy adjustment of the chain!

I like my chain lift plows.... but if you get frustrated easily with a non-instant feedback system you will want direct lift. I know so many people who like the direct lift just because their personality...a lot of guys are impatient. Just go out and try them out. If the dealer doesn't have one mounted on a vehicle to play with, call you competitors and see if they will let you play! you may have to pay tho!


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## spencer087 (Sep 10, 2008)

thank you both! very good information. Personally i wouldnt mind waiting but from videos on you tube of people plowing it looks as if there is no waiting and if it is it must be a split second of a delay


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## ERWbuilders (Oct 5, 2010)

Doesnt the chain lift plow ride the ground better plowing dips and bumps unlike a direct lift which there would be some pressure left in the piston not allowing the plow to fully ride the ground over a dip?


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## PLOWMAN45 (Jul 2, 2003)

my plow does


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## festerw (Sep 25, 2003)

ERWbuilders;1103792 said:


> Doesnt the chain lift plow ride the ground better plowing dips and bumps unlike a direct lift which there would be some pressure left in the piston not allowing the plow to fully ride the ground over a dip?


There is no pressure in the cylinder if the control is in float.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

I have both a chain lift (Fisher I plowed with for 20+ years) and a direct lift (Boss plowed with for 2 years)

I love the direct lift, no waiting. I used to scalp lawns at the end of driveways waiting for the slack in the chain before the plow would lift.

I love the trip edge of the fisher plows Now if I could merge them A direct lift fisher


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## Stik208 (Oct 19, 2004)

theplowmeister;1104052 said:


> I have both a chain lift (Fisher I plowed with for 20+ years) and a direct lift (Boss plowed with for 2 years)
> 
> I love the direct lift, no waiting. I used to scalp lawns at the end of driveways waiting for the slack in the chain before the plow would lift.
> 
> I love the trip edge of the fisher plows Now if I could merge them A direct lift fisher


Im sure its not heavy duty enough but the HT.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Stik208;1104062 said:


> Im sure its not heavy duty enough but the HT.


What is not heavy duty?


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

theplowmeister;1104052 said:


> I have both a chain lift (Fisher I plowed with for 20+ years) and a direct lift (Boss plowed with for 2 years)
> 
> I love the direct lift, no waiting. I used to scalp lawns at the end of driveways waiting for the slack in the chain before the plow would lift.
> 
> I love the trip edge of the fisher plows Now if I could merge them A direct lift fisher


A Boss trip edge would be what you are looking for sir.


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

Direct lift is far superior for holding heavy weight. No road bounce, no worries about broken chains, just smooth sailing. They respond faster, and really are not as complicated as most think. 

Try a Boss plow out some time, you won't go back.


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## PLOWMAN45 (Jul 2, 2003)

my western has no road bounce or broken chains


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## Stik208 (Oct 19, 2004)

theplowmeister;1104187 said:


> What is not heavy duty?


Its more of a lighter duty plow than the RD/HD you have, I have one its in my signiture.


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

PLOWMAN45;1104440 said:


> my western has no road bounce or broken chains


1. Hit some train tracks or a good frost heave, 2. give it a bit. It's not a matter of if, it's when.


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## PLOWMAN45 (Jul 2, 2003)

i have had chain lift plow since the 80s never broke a chain


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Never heard of anyone breaking a chain. Up here, roads are terrible, everyone has a plow, and they are all yellow.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Pinky Demon;1105245 said:


> 1. Hit some train tracks or a good frost heave, 2. give it a bit. It's not a matter of if, it's when.


That is hilarious, my last plow I just sold was near 20 years old with the original chain, not once did I ever think of it snapping. My current plow is also a 90's model with the original chain, once again, I just drove 2 hours north to restore the plow and not once did I consider the chain snapping. Am I replacing the chain- yes, because the rest of the plow will be new and want it all to look the same, does it need a chain? Nope, and the old chain will be in my tool box to be used for a tow chain.

I'd be more worried about having a hydraulic failure causing a plow to drop than a chain snapping.

Train tracks are nothing, hit some of the mountains (aka frost heaves) we have here on our "roads" in Maine, not once has my plow bounced or slapped.

OP- I've plowed with both a Fisher (my old 7.5' Minute Mount 1, they make Western plows) and a brand new Boss Superduty 7.5' trip edge plow. The boss is faster (the Wester V hydraulics are just as fast), the lifting I couldn't notice a difference. On the newer plows there is a spring that returns the lift arm all the way down every time you hit the down/float button. On my Minute Mount 1's they didnt' have this, so when I hit down/float the lift only goes down as far as the plow does. So when I hit up, it instantly takes up the slack and raises the plow. Just remove the spring and your western will do the same.


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## Teamdynamic (Nov 5, 2010)

The western is way better (strong and cheap to work on)


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## gtstang462002 (Dec 23, 2009)

Pinky Demon;1104276 said:


> A Boss trip edge would be what you are looking for sir.





Pinky Demon;1104279 said:


> Direct lift is far superior for holding heavy weight. No road bounce, no worries about broken chains, just smooth sailing. They respond faster, and really are not as complicated as most think.
> 
> Try a Boss plow out some time, you won't go back.


If I didn't know any better I would think you were a salesman for Boss plows...


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

gtstang462002;1106002 said:


> If I didn't know any better I would think you were a salesman for Boss plows...


Nope, just saw everyone's BS and picked the best brand. Had Meyers, had Western, now it's time for the Boss. They have the best design hands down. Their V is the best designed in the industry. No one else comes close.


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## vegaman04 (Dec 12, 2007)

Pinky Demon;1106158 said:


> Nope, just saw everyone's BS and picked the best brand. Had Meyers, had Western, now it's time for the Boss. They have the best design hands down. Their V is the best designed in the industry. No one else comes close.


Right..... A plow that has springs to return the plow to the v position. If you want it to hydraulically return, gotta spend more money.

They all have +/-'s to them. 
If you get stuck, without the smart locks, you cant wiggle yourself out.
Slow hydraulics are not an issue with Westerns newer stuff.
Boss v's will not trip in v or scoop.


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

vegaman04;1106178 said:


> Right..... A plow that has springs to return the plow to the v position. If you want it to hydraulically return, gotta spend more money.
> 
> They all have +/-'s to them.
> If you get stuck, without the smart locks, you cant wiggle yourself out.
> Slow hydraulics are not an issue with Westerns newer stuff.


The above point has been debated time and time again.

My dealer automatically included Smartlocks so I don't really care. It's still the best designed V on the market.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

vegaman04;1106178 said:


> Right..... A plow that has springs to return the plow to the v position. If you want it to hydraulically return, gotta spend more money.
> 
> They all have +/-'s to them.
> If you get stuck, without the smart locks, you cant wiggle yourself out.
> ...


You are 100% wrong, I have a Boss V and it trips in both the V and the scoop.


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

All full trips should trip when in V or Scoop....That's part of why the center hinge pin fails...but that is controlled damage in my opinion. I have to say, that once you hit the same feature in both full trip and trip edge, that you will never willingly buy a full trip blade to do lots or drives again.... LOL been there done that. The Boss I used was tough as nails, but beat the H*ell outta the truck it was on. I would rec. looking for a trip edge with full hydraulic return. I am getting another snowdogg, but have tried out the Meyer as well. I like them all, but would rec. snowdogg for the price if you have a dealer close.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

vegaman04;1106178 said:


> Right..... A plow that has springs to return the plow to the v position. *If you want it to hydraulically return, gotta spend more money*.....


There's an option for hydro return on Boss V plows?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

theplowmeister;1104052 said:


> I love the trip edge of the fisher plows Now if I could merge them A direct lift fisher


Hiniker Vee



2COR517;1105360 said:


> Never heard of anyone breaking a chain. Up here, roads are terrible, everyone has a plow, and they are all yellow.


The old westerns had one 3/8 bolt that held the chain. I've seen more then one break, we use to carry them for field replacement.



vegaman04;1106178 said:


> Right..... A plow that has springs to return the plow to the v position. If you want it to hydraulically return, gotta spend more money. .


More money will not buy you a Boss with double acting cylinders, not one made by Boss anyway.



2COR517;1106325 said:


> There's an option for hydro return on Boss V plows?


No

BUT the question is; which one has the best dealer support in the OP's area. The best anything is worthless if it breaks and there is no local dealer support.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

DaytonBioLawns;1106242 said:


> All full trips should trip when in V or Scoop....*That's part of why the center hinge pin fails* .


????? how about you explain that???


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## spencer087 (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm going with the Wide Out from Western. I got a SMOKIN' deal on it too!!!


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

basher;1106328 said:


> ????? how about you explain that???


Sry was gonna explain but was on the run between the GF's place and a job (she's like hospital sick) and that's why I was short.

I'm not sure if my logic is correct but, the center hinge pine is made to be verticle and have limited lateral movement. The jerking force of hiting, and the plow triping flexes that hinge pin. The pin will wear out whether or not you trip the blade because it is a wear spot on the plow. Those that trip more often are a little more rough and cause lateral movement...This wears the hinge quicker and causes you to need to replace it.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

So your theory is that the hinge pin on the Vee is a stress raiser? I follow the logic but it leads me to the question; why Fisher does with their trip edge seem to have had pin issues?

I think that any loads directed at the center pin would culminate at the pivot point and they would be ineffectual as long as the pin was supported and the hinge was not jointed there.

I have assembled a few Vee blades over the years and have found there is a pretty tight fit between the knuckles of the individual wings and the towers so i would think the amount of shear on the pins should be minimal. the manufacturers do their best to maintain equal loading the length of the shaft and do not allow the pin to carry load though too long a un-supported section.

I do not disagree that a trip edge vee transmits less inertia though the the system but I'm not sure I agree that the pin on a full trip takes more load then a trip edge. I think as a rigid object the stress loads while different could be much greater.


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