# damaging effects of rock salt on hottop?



## bullit340 (Oct 25, 2005)

Can anyone direct me to where I can find information on whether or not standard bulk rock salt damages hot top?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

You could start by taking a look at all the hot top on the local and state roads around you. 

FWIW Only hungry salt eats concrete and hot top. 

Seriously, salt does not harm asphalt at all. Thaw and refreeze cycles might, but not salt in and of itself.


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## bullit340 (Oct 25, 2005)

I have never noticed any direct damage from using salt on asphalt. I realize what it does to concrete.

I have a property manager who thinks that the salt will cause the asphalt to wear or break down prematurely. It does not seem to matter what I say so I figured there was some info or study done somewhere that I could reference.

I usually have straight salt in the sanders and now if I cannot convince him that it is not harmful I will have to have a dedicated sander or empty a sander and reload with 80/20 mix. Unloading and reloading a sander is just too much of a nightmare in the middle of a snow/ice event and the job does not pay enough to keep a dedicated sander of 80/20


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I just don't understand you folks on the East Coast that think sand\salt mix is so great.


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## liquidsnowmelt (Oct 9, 2013)

Calcium chloride will do the same damage as salt does. Our liquid is for anti icing/deicing and is chloride free. We are thing to do away with salt and calcium chloride or Cut down the use drastically


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

bullit340;1655956 said:


> Can anyone direct me to where I can find information on whether or not standard bulk rock salt damages hot top?


Just google "does salt damage asphalt". It has no effect at all.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Al Gore should know.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

liquidsnowmelt;1656728 said:


> Calcium chloride will do the same damage as salt does. Our liquid is for anti icing/deicing and is chloride free. We are thing to do away with salt and calcium chloride or Cut down the use drastically


Calcium chloride and sodium chloride do absolutely zero\zip\nada damage to asphalt.

Do yourself a favor and educate yourself before overselling your product.

Sodium chloride will never disappear as a de-icer. It is too readily available and cheap. Unlikely that calcium will go away, either.

Can we reduce our usage? Absolutely

Should we reduce our usage? Absolutely

Can liquids of various varieties assist and enhance chlorides to reduce usage? Most definitely.

I'm sure you product is just great. I can also guarantee that it will not eliminate granular sodium chloride usage completely. I don't care what you're selling, all the varieties of liquids have been around for numerous years and have good and bad points. And attempting to tell people that calcium and sodium damage asphalt is not the way to promote your product, because it is flat out wrong.


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

liquidsnowmelt;1656728 said:


> Calcium chloride will do the same damage as salt does. Our liquid is for anti icing/deicing and is chloride free. We are thing to do away with salt and calcium chloride or Cut down the use drastically


Anywhere there is water plus freezing temps there is a freeze/thaw cycle that can damage concrete. Actually, if anything calcium chloride reduces damage because it reduces the number of freeze/thaw cycles. Water freezing is what pops concrete. Water is found in snow.


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## TJSNOW (Jul 26, 2009)

IMAGE;1656913 said:


> Anywhere there is water plus freezing temps there is a freeze/thaw cycle that can damage concrete. Actually, if anything calcium chloride reduces damage because it reduces the number of freeze/thaw cycles. Water freezing is what pops concrete. Water is found in snow.


What????....Water is found in Snow...You learn something new everyday....I'm still gonna Blame Obama and Hungry Salt...Thumbs Up


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

TJSNOW;1656966 said:


> What????....Water is found in Snow...You learn something new everyday....I'm still gonna Blame Obama and Hungry Salt...Thumbs Up


Thumbs UpThumbs Up


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

IMAGE;1656913 said:


> Anywhere there is water plus freezing temps there is a freeze/thaw cycle that can damage concrete. Actually, if anything calcium chloride reduces damage because it reduces the number of freeze/thaw cycles. Water freezing is what pops *improperly batched and/or placed* concrete. Water is found in snow.


fixed it fer ya



TJSNOW;1656966 said:


> What????....Water is found in Snow...You learn something new everyday....I'm still gonna Blame Obama and Hungry Salt...Thumbs Up


he hehe he


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Mark Oomkes;1656194 said:


> I just don't understand you folks on the East Coast that think sand\salt mix is so great.


We would use salted wood chips but they don't make spreaders that can efficiently apply it and besides,the tree huggers would claim we're using too much of a natural resource.Roads/parking lots would be a little bumpy also.:laughing:


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## liquidsnowmelt (Oct 9, 2013)

Mark Oomkes;1656892 said:


> Calcium chloride and sodium chloride do absolutely zero\zip\nada damage to asphalt.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and educate yourself before overselling your product.
> 
> ...


Mark...you are absolutely wrong. It will damage and take away years of asphalt use. Trying to promote my product for the better. I could state facts on how this product reduced cost in damages, works two times faster than salt, does not harm your plant, new concrete, or our environment. It's a fact that pre treating with out product will not cause the hard pack snow making it easier to plow.

No need to be nasty and say I don't know a thing about my product. Of course I do, and it's actually being used in your state by my companies, municipalities, and people. Soon all states will do away with the use of salt because of the damage it does. Chicago as of now is having a huge problem with their drinking water from salt. They are banning use of salt there as well.

So yes, it affects asphalt just as much.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

I've got no problem with new products that are effective, friendly to the environement and cost effective. But let's stick to the facts, asphalt is not effected by chlorides. And when it comes to high quality concrete, there is very little effect. I 've kept salt year round inside my shop for years and there is absolutely no effect at all to the floor. Bad concrete, of course it eats it up.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

liquidsnowmelt;1657198 said:


> Mark...you are absolutely wrong. It will damage and take away years of asphalt use. Trying to promote my product for the better. I could state facts on how this product reduced cost in damages, works two times faster than salt, does not harm your plant, new concrete, or our environment. It's a fact that pre treating with out product will not cause the hard pack snow making it easier to plow.
> 
> No need to be nasty and say I don't know a thing about my product. Of course I do, and it's actually being used in your state by my companies, municipalities, and people. Soon all states will do away with the use of salt because of the damage it does. Chicago as of now is having a huge problem with their drinking water from salt. They are banning use of salt there as well.
> 
> So yes, it affects asphalt just as much.


No sir you are absolutely wrong and your really going to learn pretty quick why when Mark gets finished with you. LOL


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## TJSNOW (Jul 26, 2009)

JD Dave;1657295 said:


> No sir you are absolutely wrong and your really going to learn pretty quick why when Mark gets finished with you. LOL


It a "New" MarkO...He is kinder,gentler,and all around less course....I miss the "Old" MarkO where he got his point right across....:waving:


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## TJSNOW (Jul 26, 2009)

leigh;1657274 said:


> I've got no problem with new products that are effective, friendly to the environement and cost effective. But let's stick to the facts, asphalt is not effected by chlorides. And when it comes to high quality concrete, there is very little effect. I 've kept salt year round inside my shop for years and there is absolutely no effect at all to the floor. Bad concrete, of course it eats it up.


Ding , Ding , Ding....We have a Winner.....


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Besides years of real world experience a quick internet search pointed me to WWW.asphaltinstitute.org which pretty clearly states that calcium and sodium chlorides have been proven not to cause damage to properly installed and properly engineered asphalt.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

TJSNOW;1657296 said:


> It a "New" MarkO...He is kinder,gentler,and all around less course....I miss the "Old" MarkO where he got his point right across....:waving:


And you have to remember that site sponsors are always right.


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## TJSNOW (Jul 26, 2009)

JD Dave;1657301 said:


> And you have to remember that site sponsors are always right.


Yes Sir....I will ALWAYS remember that.....


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## liquidsnowmelt (Oct 9, 2013)

Checked that out. Understandable where maybe the salt isn't doing much harm to the asphalt itself but other ways there are other reasons why I don't agree with it being
Good for our environment. We all have our opinion, but
I think salt and calcium chloride does more negative for us than more positive. There are other ways to go about handling our snow seasons


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

JD Dave;1657295 said:


> No sir you are absolutely wrong and your really going to learn pretty quick why when Mark gets finished with you. LOL


Thumbs UpThumbs Up

I'm making popcorn now.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

liquidsnowmelt;1657198 said:


> Chicago as of now is having a huge problem with their drinking water from salt. They are banning use of salt there as well.
> 
> So yes, it affects asphalt just as much.


Can anyone from Chicago substantiate this gentleman's claim that they (whoever "they" is) are banning the use of sodium chloride in the Windy City?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

TCLA;1657500 said:


> Can anyone from Chicago substantiate this gentleman's claim that they (whoever "they" is) are banning the use of sodium chloride in the Windy City?


Give me a minute. lol


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

liquidsnowmelt;1657198 said:


> Mark...you are absolutely wrong.
> It will damage and take away years of asphalt use.
> 
> Horse hockey. Find me the link that shows studies proving salt damages asphalt.
> ...


I think we already covered that, and others have as well. The breakdown of asphalt is from traffic, not salt. It's hard to differentiate between pavement breakdown in southern states that don't use salt because they don't have the snow to cause freeze\thaw cycles either, which is really what causes issues.

To reiterate, I am not bashing your product at all. I am only trying to help you by telling you to not oversell your product by making claims that most professionals know are absolute falsehoods. Because many have done the same in the past and all end up with egg on their face.

I'll be waiting for the links. Have a great day!


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