# Is spreading salt worth it?



## snowpusher tim (Dec 8, 2008)

I have been plowing snow for 3 years for myself. I see more and more operators that are using tailgate and V box spreaders. How do you make money spreading salt? Put salting in the bid before the season I guess. Before I spend $1500 for a spreader, I want to make sure I can get a return on my investment.


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## YPLLLC (Dec 4, 2008)

Although I am new I have seen this question here a few times. If say you get salt for $5 a 50# bag you will charge at least $10 to spread that bag. I have in my contracts that I will spread salt if it is suppose to snow less than 2 inches aas that is my trigger, also I do a few neighborhood streets and it is up to me to spread salt. I have not had to spread it this year yet but plan to do it if i have to plow and then it is going to be below 32 degrees for more than a day or two. Hope this helps and you can search salt spreading to get more answers.


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## snowpusher tim (Dec 8, 2008)

I have 2" triggers, but for next season will I want to put it the bid that I will salt from a dusting up to 2", over 2" plow then salt everytime? I do spread salt on the sidewalks and I do double the cost of the bags of salt the customer.


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## YPLLLC (Dec 4, 2008)

I give the option to all my customers whether or not they want salt. Most say they do not want it (thats residential) Commercial usually want it and i explain to them that salting is basically a seperate charge per 50# bag. I tell them they will be charged for only the amount of bags i use and when i use them. Hope this helps. You actually could still get your clients to use salt this season. I would personally call each and let them know you suggest salting for under two inches and any other time you think it is necessary. then if you get enough clients to say yes you can buy the spreader.


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## snowpusher tim (Dec 8, 2008)

I never thought of going to them and asking them if they want salt. I thought no because they agreed to the contract. But I will ask them, and hopefully enough say yes, and I can buy a spreader.


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## YPLLLC (Dec 4, 2008)

Sounds good let me know how it goes for you


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

If you salt your accounts you will need to lower the trigger to 1" because it takes way to long and way to much salt to melt 1.5" of snow


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## dannyslawn (Oct 29, 2007)

I use bulk treated salt for my bigger commercial accts. I charge per application instead of per ton. Last season we averaged invoicing $400.00 per ton of salt used. On smaller accts. I use bagged material, but still charge per application.


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## Smitty58 (Dec 23, 2003)

Your questions is, is it worth it to invest in a spreader? In my opinion if you are going to do anything bigger than driveways you have to buy a spreader. You don't have to spend $1500 though there are less expensive ones or buy a used one. There is more money in salt than plowing. One lot I do I get $75 to plow and it typically takes me 45 minutes and I charge $12 per 50 lb bag and pay $4 a bag. I typically plow then put down 10 bags so $75 to plow (45 minutes) and net $80 to salt (15 minutes). Also there are several times through the winter that all we do is put down salt when we are only expecting a dusting to 1 inch ,don't spread salt on top of 2 inches it won't work. Buy yourself a spreader you won't regret it.


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## YPLLLC (Dec 4, 2008)

How do you charge per application? By the square foot? And if so what is the price you charge?


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

we charge by the application. we're primarily driveways with half a dozen clients that request salt when its not plowable or after plowing anyway. I used to use a small walk behind spreader that I would load out of the back of the truck. If you're going to use bags you have to buy it buy the pallet wholesale and then mark it up off the retail price. This year I bought myself a 7' Ice-o-way spreader. over $4500 for the spreader, but it cuts my spreading time down big time. Last season I was spending as much as 7 minutes per house unloading/filling/spreading/refilling/loading the spreader. Got to do my first salt run yesterday morning and boy-o-boy it's nice to flip a switch and just back down the driveway and then drive out and you're done.

My words of advice are if you can afford to buy a spreader (get a good one!) do it. Check your local craigslist.com ads and look around town for a nice used one for sale. Do yourself a favor and pay the premium for a stainless steel unit. The upfront cost far out weighs the extended life over mild steel. Offer your services to your existing clients and see if you can convert them. A few will say yes if they have hilly driveways. The most common answer I got when I ask my older clients about it was 'I didn't know you could spread salt'. If you don't tell people they won't know you have it. Then when you get an ice-storm or freezing rain you're going to be the hero for the rest of your clients.


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## Grn Mtn (Sep 21, 2004)

snowpusher tim;666703 said:


> ...How do you make money spreading salt? ....


because with salting you get to go out if the temps are below 32* and you have a dusting or more. plus you salt after a plow, so you will double your trips to your commercials that use it. say you plow 20 times in a season, but now with salting you got to salt those 20 also making extra bucks doing that plus you got to salt only an extra 15 trips that normally you would never have gone out for.

just remember salting increases your liability so make sure your insurance coverage is aware your salting. and Always note the time/temp/location/what you did and keep in a safe place for 3 years incase someone sues you.


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## MB3 (Oct 11, 2007)

I want to make sure I can get a return on my investment.[/QUOTE said:


> Everyone on here has given you some great advice. I only salt my commerical accounts, none of my res want the service. There are a few older people that I will put it down for when I am tere, just to be nice, money is one things, happy customers are another, and if they see you going the extra mile, they usually make it up to you in their tip. I have one customer that always gave me $5 every time we were at his house, to buy the guys hot cocco. As for making money on salting, I have a hitch mount spreader, use 50 pound bags, and like someone else said, I go out everytime it does anything to check the parking lot, I also do a drive thru that freezes up very quickly. Money is great and quick. I make more money on salting than I do plowing snow, and I am in and out quickly.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Grn Mtn;666898 said:


> just remember salting increases your liability so make sure your insurance coverage is aware your salting. and Always note the time/temp/location/what you did and keep in a safe place for 3 years incase someone sues you.


Increase liability? Just the opposite. and i doubt my insurance cares either way but if they had a choice they would rather i was spreading salt


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

cretebaby;667476 said:


> Increase liability? Just the opposite. and i doubt my insurance cares either way but if they had a choice they would rather i was spreading salt


If you don't spread salt because the customer doesn't want it, he then assumes all liability for slips and falls.


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## sven1277 (Jan 15, 2008)

I am considering switching from salt/sand mix to straight bulk salt to reduce the mess created by the sand. For an ice storm, is salt enough, or sand too for traction? Should I keep both materials in the yard depending on conditions?


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## Dailylc (Feb 12, 2006)

You will pay for a spreader in no time. We only got 10" of snow last year and I made more money applying Ice Melt / salt than I did plowing. I put down over 10 ton of material last season. If you do the math with the numbers found earlier in this post you can see what kind of money can be made. And I charge 4 times the cost of product to apply ( which is tolerable in my area)


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## gamberbull13 (Dec 16, 2009)

here in maryland we r payin 80 aton and gettin paid00.38 a pound spread bulk and we r extremely competitive salt money is nuts


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

gamberbull13;973820 said:


> here in maryland we r payin 80 aton and gettin paid00.38 a pound spread bulk and we r extremely competitive salt money is nuts


How much would that be per ton?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

cretebaby;973822 said:


> How much would that be per ton?


Hee hee hee...


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## starc (Nov 16, 2006)

38¢ per pound $760 per ton...
I manage to make about $600 per ton here minus the cost of salt of course.


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

Here in Vancouver it is mandatory to salt all public and private areas after clearing and commercial buildings must clear there sidewalks daily. Every winter people sue for slips and falls and are awarded millions, one lady got 6.4 million last year alone. last winter we burned up 1600 tons at about $800..00 profit per ton. We had a long term customer that declined the salt and hired there own landscaper to do it, potentially saving a couple of hundred bucks over the season. Unfortunately for them we plowed the site at 6 am, the landscaper didn't show up until 10 am and one of their customers slipped and broke her hip shortly after 9 am cost his insurance 1.2 (lucky for him she didn't have a good lawyer). This year they have a priority contract of plow at 1" and salt anytime below 0 deg. We now refuse any new customers who just want a quick plow unless we also salt otherwise are insurance would eat all the profit. Trust me, do a little homework and find a similar case and show that to your customers and the cost of a little salt will pale in comparison to being sued for a slip.payup


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Wow , 1600 tons @ 800.00 = 1,280,000$ just salting . I've got to step it up a bit.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Wow, and I thought the lawyers were crooks down here.


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

Presently running 10 vbox trucks, 2 atv's and a toolcat backed up with a 1,000 ton bin and 1,000 ton on reserve. Started the first season with an 96 F250 , Western pro II, and 6 pallets of salt.


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## cplmac (Nov 25, 2009)

This is my first season running my own accounts. My contract stipulates that I WILL salt after plowing at a price of $.23/pound, and I MAY salt anything under 2" at $.30/pound. My spreader was paid for after the second snowfall, if I had more accounts it would have been paid for after the first as it only takes me an hour and a half to salt all of my accounts. Salt/Calcium blends are $.40/pound and $.33/pound after plowing. Salting is at my sole discretion for quantity, type and when I do it. I had an issue with the amount of plowing and salting for December as I'm sure a lot of people did with the amount and duration of our snowfalls in the Chicagoland area, so I asked my customers to get bids from other professional contractors to compare prices. They found my prices to be lower or the same in all cases and that was the end of that. Salting is an absolute must if you do any commercial lots, residential is not such an easy sell.


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## snowpusher tim (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks for all the insite guys.
Last night I finished my second time of using my new Bliiard power plow. Now I am looking at getting a T-gate spreader, thinking of Snow Ex. Everyone around here runs them.
With a T-gate spreader, is bagged the way to go? I can always find a place for bags. or is it best to go with bulk? I know bulk is cheaper, but I have no idea where to get it. when I priced bags the other day it was something like $325 in bulk prices. 

What should I do?

Also have a few leads to a factory, HOA, and 10 credit union locations. Maybe a V box is the better choice.


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## lawnproslawncar (Dec 9, 2007)

Lets put it this way. We paid for our boss in two events this year if you don't figure operator costs and fuel/truck maintenance. After salt used was figured in it was paid for.


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## lawnproslawncar (Dec 9, 2007)

Also, the boss spreader has a pulsating drive system. If it clogs up the motor will not just sit and hum until it's burnt out. I don't know what the other manufacturers use but mine is simple and reliable. We have ran over 4 ton of Reinders Meteor Melt through this one this season without a hiccup.


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## doo-man (Feb 22, 2009)

We also use a BOSS TG spreader, I love it and had it paid for after the first week in service! 

I do however have to meet with a couple commercial clients as they were a little invoice shocked for the month of December. I have a fast food chain and 2 daycare centers that want to stop salting service! Well I am going to have to have my A game on and the game face as well as the play book ready for them. We have signed contracts for plowing and salting so what do I do? I have the whole liability issue and safety of customers plan but note sure what else to bring for my offensive plays! I hate to play defense so to say but I have to defend why we do provide this service and why it is such an asset to them the owners. 

So anyone please chime in with what you would do or how you might approach this !!


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

doo-man;976639 said:


> We also use a BOSS TG spreader, I love it and had it paid for after the first week in service!
> 
> I do however have to meet with a couple commercial clients as they were a little invoice shocked for the month of December. I have a fast food chain and 2 daycare centers that want to stop salting service! Well I am going to have to have my A game on and the game face as well as the play book ready for them. We have signed contracts for plowing and salting so what do I do? I have the whole liability issue and safety of customers plan but note sure what else to bring for my offensive plays! I hate to play defense so to say but I have to defend why we do provide this service and why it is such an asset to them the owners.
> 
> So anyone please chime in with what you would do or how you might approach this !!


 I find the best way to handle them is give them examples of prior awards to slip and fall victims. Remind them that they are inviting the general public to visit their place of business. Doubly so by plowing their lot and therefore are liable for their well being while on their property. Your insurance provider well most likely be more than happy to give you some prime examples of very large awards being paid to victims of shoddy maintenance by business owners. Most if not all Insurance providers here in B.C. insist that properties be salted after clearing or the business owner will be held 100% to blame. Hope this helps


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## Corman (Oct 4, 2008)

hitachiman 200;976700 said:


> I find the best way to handle them is give them examples of prior awards to slip and fall victims. Remind them that they are inviting the general public to visit their place of business. Doubly so by plowing their lot and therefore are liable for their well being while on their property. Your insurance provider well most likely be more than happy to give you some prime examples of very large awards being paid to victims of shoddy maintenance by business owners. Most if not all Insurance providers here in B.C. insist that properties be salted after clearing or the business owner will be held 100% to blame. Hope this helps


 Hitachiman, we in Vancouver were treated to a fantastic snow season last year. Looks like this year will go down as a dud. Good thing we had some salting in December.


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## hairygary (Feb 19, 2009)

doo-man;976639 said:


> We also use a BOSS TG spreader, I love it and had it paid for after the first week in service!
> 
> I do however have to meet with a couple commercial clients as they were a little invoice shocked for the month of December. I have a fast food chain and 2 daycare centers that want to stop salting service! Well I am going to have to have my A game on and the game face as well as the play book ready for them. We have signed contracts for plowing and salting so what do I do? I have the whole liability issue and safety of customers plan but note sure what else to bring for my offensive plays! I hate to play defense so to say but I have to defend why we do provide this service and why it is such an asset to them the owners.
> 
> So anyone please chime in with what you would do or how you might approach this !!


If you paid for your spreader in one week, you might want to think about if you are charging too much. No offense, but if you are having trouble after the first invoice, you dont want to loose your accounts, you must think of the long term. Good contractors hold on most accounts and pick up more. I believe the best markup on salt to stay competative is 200 to 300% of your cost.


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

Corman;983514 said:


> Hitachiman, we in Vancouver were treated to a fantastic snow season last year. Looks like this year will go down as a dud. Good thing we had some salting in December.


Yes indeed , last year was pretty darn good, was there a christmas in 08?


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

hairygary;983539 said:


> If you paid for your spreader in one week, you might want to think about if you are charging too much. No offense, but if you are having trouble after the first invoice, you dont want to loose your accounts, you must think of the long term. Good contractors hold on most accounts and pick up more. I believe the best markup on salt to stay competative is 200 to 300% of your cost.


If only a few are compaining then probably not charging to much, just has a lot of contracts. I can easily move 25-100 tons a shift depending on conditions . At that rate with even a 100% markup:laughing: you can pay it off pretty quick. Some customers go in to a contract hoping for a light season and choke on you when it gets bad. Their operating budget may not take into account a bad season. 
Was the weather unseasonable cold and wet and resulted in more materials being used? If so then explain this to them and maybe you can give them more time to pay in full, Ask for enough to cover your costs for now and reap your profit later. payup


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## doo-man (Feb 22, 2009)

Well we dont over charge to the best of my knowledge we just have had wet n very cold temps that have caused it to freeze. 

We had a slip n fall early in the season and we had been there to salt like an hour before the person fell, we were not told the specifics but the manager wanted to make sure we were salting and salting was through out the whole property so we made sure if the possibility was there for a slip n fall again we had plenty of salt laid out. 

We were charging $100 to salt the complete parking lot which includes 2 separate ent/exits, handi capped areas, drive thru, and main parking lot. They said they paid $400 more with us than they did last season for the month of December. 

I think thats pretty good since I know the company that did it last year n they did a half butt job! He said we do a great job clearing the snow probably too good as it is bare pavement(blacktop) !!! 

As far as the daycare's go she owns 3 locations and has us do 2 of them as the 3rd isnt doing very hot! She said we can salt on an as needed basis but not as frequently as we had??

Well I have requested both customers to fax over statements requesting our services be reduced or eliminated completely, our insurance agent said if they send over requests it takes the burden off us and places sole responsibility back onto them and the letters will be placed in their files at the insurance agent.

We still have customers on board for salting and have gotten calls for new businesses looking into it as it seems to snow then warm up then freeze causing icy conditions and they dont want to have any troubles!!


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

See, thats what I meant about being more than they expected. He's comparing it to a certain time period from a previuos year. So unless the weather was an exact repeat ( ya right) by your numbers you had to salt 4 times more than the same period last year, which is not an unreasonable amount. He's paying you to make the call so he doesn't have to drag his a$$ out of bed in the wee hours to check the lot himself. asks you to take extra care when he thinks he might have a problem and then whines about the bill. Pains like this you don't need. 
The day care on the other hand is probably operating on a low profit margin and will most likely appreciate a little help with the big bill and has potential for a long term customer, your call. 
best of luck


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## doo-man (Feb 22, 2009)

Yes the daycare is good customer that we mow n landscape for and have worked with them before and will continue that to! I can't wait for a huge ice storm so I can charge a crapp load to the fast food joint!!


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## cplmac (Nov 25, 2009)

hairygary;983539 said:


> If you paid for your spreader in one week, you might want to think about if you are charging too much. No offense, but if you are having trouble after the first invoice, you dont want to loose your accounts, you must think of the long term. Good contractors hold on most accounts and pick up more. I believe the best markup on salt to stay competative is 200 to 300% of your cost.


Nah, I paid for my spreader by the end of the second event. Granted I have a Buyers and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg. I charge a %200 markup on my salt, the problem is the pricing on the salt this year it's the month of December dropping TWO 12-36 hour snowfalls at 8+ inches a piece. Those kinds of snowfalls may as well be three separate events for billing purposes, particularly with commercial accounts where you have to have salt and a clear lot in the morning and evening. These kinds of months happen from time to time.


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

this has spreaders beat
http://www.plowsite.com/showpost.php?p=984713&postcount=13


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

No, this isn't mine.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/02/01/bc-kootenays-helicopter-seized.html


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