# 56 Acre new construction need some help.



## KevinCarter1988

LOCATION:Chicago

Hey guys, love this forum, I have been in the business my whole life. I started at 15 and I am now 32, so snow is in my blood(first generation. Needless to say, I am coming out of a season of my old partner robbing me for 750K. We were pretty large he handled the paperwork, I handled the infield. 

I can bid the smaller lots with ease but I am having a hard time on my first large commercial property. It is 56 Acres of plowable lot. They requested a zero tolerance on ice control and a 1inch trigger on push. Seems to be a pretty busy trucking visuality. 

We are responsible for the small walk up to the warehouse and the metal stair entrances around the building. 

Seasonal is a option as well potentially.

Thanks guys!!


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## BossPlow2010

Welcome back to the site.
What’s the question? I’ve got zero experience bidding a 56 acre property, but if it’s a shipping terminal, they’re probably going to want the kingpins cleared.


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## m_ice

2 loaders with wing plows
1 or 2 skids to clean up and do tight spots
Large salt truck

Put them on a seasonal with caps

Should be golden


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## m_ice

How much cleaning between the trailers do they require?

Also, do all the egress doors have to be cleared?
Those steel grated steps are a pain to shovel. About the only way to do them is a backpack blower.


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## KevinCarter1988

m_ice said:


> 2 loaders with wing plows
> 1 or 2 skids to clean up and do tight spots
> Large salt truck
> 
> Put them on a seasonal with caps
> 
> Should be golden


Seems a little excessive I think, 2 loaders? Ive done a lot more with a lot less equipment no offense. I am looking for the seasonal price but keep second guessing it. Chicago Winter has been a challenge to bid seasonal for me after last year. Do you have a number in mind? I will consider the number being with the larger equipment needed.


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## WIPensFan

Pretty big place. I’m interested to see how others would bid it. Never did anything close to that size, nor would I have wanted to. You’re gonna need a couple of barges of salt for that place over a season. Sorry to hear about your partner stealing from you. Experienced that too, although not nearly that much money. 
Good luck!


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## KevinCarter1988

WIPensFan said:


> Pretty big place. I'm interested to see how others would bid it. Never did anything close to that size, nor would I have wanted to. You're gonna need a couple of barges of salt for that place over a season. Sorry to hear about your partner stealing from you. Experienced that too, although not nearly that much money.
> Good luck!


Thank you sir!! I came back a lot wiser out of the situation, just have to financially pull off this winter.


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## KevinCarter1988

KevinCarter1988 said:


> Seems a little excessive I think, 2 loaders? Ive done a lot more with a lot less equipment no offense. I am looking for the seasonal price but keep second guessing it. Chicago Winter has been a challenge to bid seasonal for me after last year. Do you have a number in mind? I will consider the number being with the larger equipment needed.


I was thinking 10 skid steers and a truck that stays local with a 10 ft wideout,


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## KevinCarter1988

KevinCarter1988 said:


> I was thinking 10 skid steers and a truck that stays local with a 10 ft wideout,


you may be right on one loader the more I consider.


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## KevinCarter1988

m_ice said:


> How much cleaning between the trailers do they require?
> 
> Also, do all the egress doors have to be cleared?
> Those steel grated steps are a pain to shovel. About the only way to do them is a backpack blower.


I am going to make the bid say that is all not included unless discussed, they gave me minimum detail on purpose I'm sure.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc.

KevinCarter1988 said:


> I am going to make the bid say that is all not included unless discussed, they gave me minimum detail on purpose I'm sure.


Why don't you ask for a scope of work or some sort of explanation of what the requirements are for the site before you bid it? Might save both parties some time.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc.

KevinCarter1988 said:


> I was thinking 10 skid steers and a truck that stays local with a 10 ft wideout,


Keep in mind that 10 skid steers need 10 operators.


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## BossPlow2010

Wouldn’t loaders be more efficient than 10 skid steers?


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## GMC Driver

I'd agree - efficiency is the key on a property of this size.

I know where I'd be - but that might not work in Chicago. We're over $100/ton on salt here, and we would implement a liquid program for a site like that. 

We've got experience on trucking yards. 1" trigger is common. If it's snowing, don't expect to leave the site anytime soon. You're there until it stops. I suppose it depends on what type of traffic, but guessing by all the bay doors it's vans. They don't exactly spec trucks with lockers or attract the most winter experienced drivers.


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## Mark Oomkes

I bid a 40 acre complex once. They wanted hourly which was ridiculous. I tried to sell them on either a seasonal or per push, can't remember. I didn't get it, lost out to an RV repair company that did snow on the side. Whatever. They also wanted sand/salt mix which I told them I wouldn't do.

I figured 2 loaders with 16' pushers, 2 skidsteers and a truck for a supervisor/helping here and there. Plus sidewalks. 

I'm going to be blunt, but I call BS that you've done more with less. 10 skidsteers with 10 operators vs 2 loaders and 2 skidsteers and 4 operators. 

This is a no brainer. Are you a jobs program or are you in business to make money? Not even getting into where are you going to find 10 qualified operators. Efficiency is everything nowadays with fuel, insurance, equipment and labor costs. And 10 skidsteers is anything but efficient. 

I know you said you handled operations so you should know production rates but did you do anything with the numbers? I'm wondering if you were getting the work done while your partner was screwing you because you weren't actually making money.


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## Philbilly2

GMC Driver said:


> I know where I'd be - but that might not work in Chicago.


It is not Chicago. Morris is quite rural farm country.

Easy on/off Route 80 which is why it is becoming a terminal destination.


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## KevinCarter1988

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Keep in mind that 10 skid steers need 10 operators.


Woooppps never ten sorry that was a typo for sure!!! Haha


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## KevinCarter1988

KevinCarter1988 said:


> you may be right on one loader the more I consider.


After going back I'm thinking a loader, 3 skidsteers and a f450 with a wideout.


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## BossPlow2010

And that one f450 is going to salt 56 acres?
Better pack a lunch…

Do you have a picture of this property?


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## Hydromaster

I’m just gonna toss this out there,
who’s going to shovel the sidewalks/stairs/
Entryways /fire exits /loading docks?


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## Hydromaster

BossPlow2010 said:


> And that one f450 is going to salt 56 acres?
> Better pack a lunch…
> 
> Do you have a picture of this property?


He could get three boss cubes one for each the skid steers


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## BossPlow2010

Hydromaster said:


> He could get three boss cubes one for each the skid steers


He's in Chicago, please let's not inadvertently troll @1olddogtwo


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## Mark Oomkes

KevinCarter1988 said:


> Woooppps never ten sorry that was a typo for sure!!! Haha


Was it supposed to be 100?

You had to type a "1" and a "0". It's not like you hit the 9 instead of 8 or 6 if you were using the 10 number keypad.

Unless this complex is full of very short pushes, you're going to be overwhelmed with 1 loader and 3 skidsteers.

I see a building almost a half mile long. On the outside of the building is all trailer parking. It's 630 feet wide. Even the trailer storage at the top left is 92' wide by 540' long. With any amount of snow over a couple inches, skids are worthless. On top of that, if it isn't kept bare, the trucks are going to be smashing it down making it heavy and hard to push.

We're plowing a lot that is 725' long, 90% of the snow goes to the west. It's getting pretty long for even our 544G. It doesn't stop, but it slows it down to about 4-5 MPH with an 18' pusher and moderate amount of snow.

Good luck I guess, but you're in waaaaaay over your head with 1 loader and 3 skids. Or 10 skids.


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## KevinCarter1988

Mark Oomkes said:


> I bid a 40 acre complex once. They wanted hourly which was ridiculous. I tried to sell them on either a seasonal or per push, can't remember. I didn't get it, lost out to an RV repair company that did snow on the side. Whatever. They also wanted sand/salt mix which I told them I wouldn't do.
> 
> I figured 2 loaders with 16' pushers, 2 skidsteers and a truck for a supervisor/helping here and there. Plus sidewalks.
> 
> I'm going to be blunt, but I call BS that you've done more with less. 10 skidsteers with 10 operators vs 2 loaders and 2 skidsteers and 4 operators.
> 
> This is a no brainer. Are you a jobs program or are you in business to make money? Not even getting into where are you going to find 10 qualified operators. Efficiency is everything nowadays with fuel, insurance, equipment and labor costs. And 10 skidsteers is anything but efficient.
> 
> I know you said you handled operations so you should know production rates but did you do anything with the numbers? I'm wondering if you were getting the work done while your partner was screwing you because you weren't actually making money.


Yes the 10 skids killed my whole thread, I was on lack of sleep haha. I am considering 1 or 2 loaders now . 2 skids and 1 truck


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## KevinCarter1988

Okay so you don't think I can handle it with a f450 Wideout, two skids 10ft push box, 1 loader? I will have to disagree here and would love to stay in touch about it if your in the midwest?


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## m_ice

Imo there should be no less than 2 loaders on site. Get them on seasonal to cover your fixed cost. And come up with a plan for sidewalks and salting. An f450 is not going to cut it...sorry


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## BossPlow2010

How does one maintain “ZT” ice control for a 56 acre property w/ one truck?


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## Mark Oomkes

I already stated the skids are not going to help much. There aren't enough short runs where they are going to be productive. They're just too small to clear such long pushes.

Do you have a scope of work? How long do they expect it to take to be cleared?


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## KevinCarter1988

I will have to disagree here sorry.


m_ice said:


> Imo there should be no less than 2 loaders on site. Get them on seasonal to cover your fixed cost. And come up with a plan for sidewalks and salting. An f450 is not going to cut it...sorry


Theres zero sidewalks


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## KevinCarter1988

BossPlow2010 said:


> How does one maintain "ZT" ice control for a 56 acre property w/ one truck?


LOL, wow but no offense we must drive too fast. I had roughly 64 accounts last season. I would love to have someone tell me I do not know my snow. We may operate different yes. Did you ask what size salter I had for my f450 sir?


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## cjames808




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## KevinCarter1988

cjames808 said:


> View attachment 221702


YEPPPPP


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## Mark Oomkes

KevinCarter1988 said:


> LOL, wow but no offense we must drive too fast. I had roughly 64 accounts last season. I would love to have someone tell me I do not know my snow. We may operate different yes. Did you ask what size salter I had for my f450 sir?


What is your average per acre application rate?

Wish I was as confident as you about "knowing my snow". But what do I know.

BTW, if you know your snow, why are you asking how/what equipment to use to plow?


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## Ajlawn1

KevinCarter1988 said:


> LOL, wow but no offense we must drive too fast. I had roughly 64 accounts last season. I would love to have someone tell me I do not know my snow. We may operate different yes. Did you ask what size salter I had for my f450 sir?


Don't listen to these guys... You're running Fords it can be 100 acres you'll be fine...


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## cjames808

Try writing down the equipment choices and their efficiency and balance that with your plan And how quickly you can get it done. 

loader with 14-16’=X acres per hour somewhere between 6-10 acres hour 
That would take 8-10 hours. Need 2. 

covering 56 acres ain’t no joke. What if you get a 20” storm. Not A typo. You also need a muni sized salter and probably salt on site. If you fk up they’ll fire you or you’ll be looking for a new place next year with all that gear. 

id be drooling over some new huge Hyundai’s and the biggest Metal Pless you can fit.


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## KevinCarter1988

Thanks for the support and help, I see we can't disagree here and run successful businesses I guess. Hope we all have a great winter and sorry I asked minus the one guy who suggested the proper equipment who helped me price it correctly .


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## BossPlow2010

KevinCarter1988 said:


> Did you ask what size salter I had for my f450 sir?


I thought about it, but figured you'd say 10 yard when you really meant 1…


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## Mark Oomkes

Just because you aren't liking what you're being told is why you think we can't disagree and run successful businesses? 

There's been a ton of great questions, great advice and trying to get answers from you, but many have gone unanswered. You've gotten direct answers from people that have been plowing longer than you've been alive but haven't like them. 

No one has any animosity towards you, we have all been trying to help. Yes, I am blunt but have not disrespected you, just called you out on a few things. 

I sincerely want to have answers to my and other's questions to try to help...assuming you want to be helped.


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## Mark Oomkes

Tell you what. Go get 5 skidsteers or 3 or 10, plow the 56 acre account with them and the 1 truck. Spread however much salt with the truck that legally will carry about 2 tons after the plow and spreader being mounted. I know, if you have salt on site, you don't have to worry about being legal. 

Have at it. Good luck.


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## Mark Oomkes

KevinCarter1988 said:


> As the title says I am looking for some good options for 10 skidsteers after snow season.
> It made more sense to lease them for 3 years. I do have the trailer to transport as well as a dump truck. I currently run a painting business in the summer and my partner owns a remodeling business. Just looking for a few good options for the machinery. Thanks for your help!


It all makes sense now...Feb 7, 2019.

Could have just said you have 10 skidsteers you're trying to put to work.


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## m_ice

KevinCarter1988 said:


> I will have to disagree here sorry.
> 
> Theres zero sidewalks


Egress doors? There has to be for fire protocol


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## LapeerLandscape

I have a question, is the 56 acres the total acres of land for the terminal or do you have to subtract out for the building and subtract out where trailers are going to be parked. How many trailers are trailers are typically there. This could all lower the acres plowed by quite a bit. Maybe it was said and I missed it.


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## Philbilly2

LapeerLandscape said:


> I have a question, is the 56 acres the total acres of land for the terminal or do you have to subtract out for the building and subtract out where trailers are going to be parked. How many trailers are trailers are typically there. This could all lower the acres plowed by quite a bit. Maybe it was said and I missed it.


That is what I was wondering as well. I am familiar with the area... and most of those terminals are not sitting on more that an 80 with retention ponds and all. I have a feeling it is far less pavement than 56 acres.


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## BossPlow2010

Philbilly2 said:


> That is what I was wondering as well. I am familiar with the area... and most of those terminals are not sitting on more that an 80 with retention ponds and all. I have a feeling it is far less pavement than 56 acres.





> It is 56 Acres of plowable lot.


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## Philbilly2

I get that he said it was 56 acres, but I looked at the civil plan. 1.34 million Square foot is the building size... that is about 30ish acres...

I don't see double the parking lot as compared to the size of the structure...










Just my two cents...


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## jonniesmooth

Mark Oomkes said:


> Tell you what. Go get 5 skidsteers or 3 or 10, plow the 56 acre account with them and the 1 truck. Spread however much salt with the truck that legally will carry about 2 tons after the plow and spreader being mounted. I know, if you have salt on site, you don't have to worry about being legal.
> 
> Have at it. Good luck.


What if the truck breaks down?


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## Hydromaster

what if the fuel gels?


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## LapeerLandscape

Philbilly2 said:


> I get that he said it was 56 acres, but I looked at the civil plan. 1.34 million Square foot is the building size... that is about 30ish acres...
> 
> I don't see double the parking lot as compared to the size of the structure...
> 
> View attachment 221715
> 
> 
> Just my two cents...


So what you're saying is 15 acres or less of plow able surface?


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## Philbilly2

LapeerLandscape said:


> So what you're saying is 15 acres or less of plow able surface?


No, I would have to look to be sure. Sitting the boys football practice on my phone, but my eyeball says I don't see 56 of pavement if the building is 30.


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## LapeerLandscape

Philbilly2 said:


> No, I would have to look to be sure. Sitting the boys football practice on my phone, but my eyeball says I don't see 56 of pavement if the building is 30.


Exactly, that was my question. 56 acres plow able or do we have to subtract everything that's not be plowed from the 56.

I think the op is in over his head if he couldn't have made that clear in the very first post.


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## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> No, I would have to look to be sure. Sitting the boys football practice on my phone, but my eyeball says I don't see 56 of pavement if the building is 30.


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## Philbilly2

LapeerLandscape said:


> Exactly, that was my question. 56 acres plow able or do we have to subtract everything that's not be plowed from the 56.
> 
> I think the op is in over his head if he couldn't have made that clear in the very first post.


Understand now. Could very well be. I will look at the drawings better tomorrow on a desktop


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## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> what if the fuel gels?


Add sulfur


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## BossPlow2010

Philbilly2 said:


> I get that he said it was 56 acres, but I looked at the civil plan. 1.34 million Square foot is the building size... that is about 30ish acres...
> 
> I don't see double the parking lot as compared to the size of the structure...
> 
> View attachment 221715
> 
> 
> Just my two cents...


The property is 148 acres
So you have
Lot 1: is 2128'x 630' (not including trailer docks)
Trailer docks in lot 1 = 701 (18x53)
Addtl trailer parking is 923'x542 (including spots where trailers go
Car parking is 57,000 ish including ada spots

We do some math (not the common core way)
Lot 1= 1,340,640
Trailer docks in lot =668,754
Car parking= 57,996
Addtl. Trailer parking= 500,266
Add those up= 2,567,657
Divide that by 43,560 we get *58.95* acres which doesn't inlcude roads in the property.
It also doesn't take into account street signs or covered areas,


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## Philbilly2

BossPlow2010 said:


> The property is 148 acres
> So you have
> Lot 1: is 2128'x 630' (not including trailer docks)
> Trailer docks in lot 1 = 701 (18x53)
> Addtl trailer parking is 923'x542 (including spots where trailers go
> Car parking is 57,000 ish including ada spots
> 
> We do some math (not the common core way)
> Lot 1= 1,340,640
> Trailer docks in lot =668,754
> Car parking= 57,996
> Addtl. Trailer parking= 500,266
> Add those up= 2,567,657
> Divide that by 43,560 we get *58.95* acres which doesn't inlcude roads in the property.
> It also doesn't take into account street signs or covered areas,


I'm impressed... I will fact check when sober


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## BossPlow2010

Also, the architect was nice enough to
Include a location for those of us picking up snow scraps, it's too bad he can't spell scraper…


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## jonniesmooth

BossPlow2010 said:


> Also, the architect was nice enough to
> Include a location for those of us picking up snow scraps, it's too bad he can't spell scraper…
> View attachment 221720


So that's a trailer brush thingy?


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## Hydromaster

Snow scraper fancy talk for a snow dragon?


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## Mark Oomkes

LapeerLandscape said:


> So what you're saying is 15 acres or less of plow able surface?


If this was the case, he could be done in no time with 10 skidsteers.


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## WIPensFan

Well, this went South real fast. I wish I could go South real fast…


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## Mike_PS

thinking we can close this one out? unless the OP would like to respond to some of the decent suggestions that were presented...


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## Philbilly2

BossPlow2010 said:


> The property is 148 acres
> So you have
> Lot 1: is 2128'x 630' (not including trailer docks)
> Trailer docks in lot 1 = 701 (18x53)
> Addtl trailer parking is 923'x542 (including spots where trailers go
> Car parking is 57,000 ish including ada spots
> 
> We do some math (not the common core way)
> Lot 1= 1,340,640
> Trailer docks in lot =668,754
> Car parking= 57,996
> Addtl. Trailer parking= 500,266
> Add those up= 2,567,657
> Divide that by 43,560 we get *58.95* acres which doesn't inlcude roads in the property.
> It also doesn't take into account street signs or covered areas,












Wow... Hey Guy... you are 1,340,640 million square feet high... (about 30 acres) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

"Lot 1" is the building footprint... you don't have to plow the building in Illinois... we utilize roofs..... 

So just using your figures...

58.95 acres - 30.78 acres = 28.17 acres plowable


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## Mike_PS

Philbilly2 said:


> Wow... Hey Guy... you are 1,340,640 million square feet high... (about 30 acres) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> "Lot 1" is the building footprint... you don't have to plow the building in Illinois... we utilize roofs.....
> 
> So just using your figures...
> 
> 58.95 acres - 30.78 acres = 28.17 acres plowable


let's wait and see if the OP comes back and responds to some questions/suggestions, no need to continue if not

thanks


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## Philbilly2

Michael J. Donovan said:


> let's wait and see if the OP comes back and responds to some questions/suggestions, no need to continue if not
> 
> thanks


sorry, I was typing when you posted I guess. My bad


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## LapeerLandscape

I sure hope the OP comes back so we can clear this up.


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## WIPensFan

LapeerLandscape said:


> I sure hope the OP comes back so we can clear this up.


Why don't you post your prices so he can base his off yours.


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## KevinCarter1988

LapeerLandscape said:


> I have a question, is the 56 acres the total acres of land for the terminal or do you have to subtract out for the building and subtract out where trailers are going to be parked. How many trailers are trailers are typically there. This could all lower the acres plowed by quite a bit. Maybe it was said and I missed it.


After taking a ride back threw there yesterday, it is 56 Acres of total concrete surface, will we be plowing all 56 Acres with everything in place, absolutely not, it is new construction so hard to assume how things will go exactly.


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## KevinCarter1988

jonniesmooth said:


> What if the truck breaks down?


I have back up trucks, I have more equipment sir. I also have a full mechanic 6000 sq ft barn in my backyard with a lift.


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## KevinCarter1988

WIPensFan said:


> Why don't you post your prices so he can base his off yours.


EVERYONE here is a critic but when you come for a quick question and get hassled its not a community sorry. If we want to talk like competition lets continue. I AM NO NOOB TO SNOW REMOVAL, I REPEAT. I have built my life off snow removal thank you!!


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## KevinCarter1988

Mark Oomkes said:


> If this was the case, he could be done in no time with 10 skidsteers.


I CLEARLY SAID THAT WAS A TYPO who in the world would put 10 skidsteers in 1 location, would probably go viral for stupidity yes.


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## KevinCarter1988

Philbilly2 said:


> I'm impressed... I will fact check when sober


I like your style!!


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## KevinCarter1988

LapeerLandscape said:


> Exactly, that was my question. 56 acres plow able or do we have to subtract everything that's not be plowed from the 56.
> 
> I think the op is in over his head if he couldn't have made that clear in the very first post.


I made it very clear, I was at 56 Acres off my quick measuring skills, I am impressed with phillbilly though haja


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## LapeerLandscape

KevinCarter1988 said:


> I CLEARLY SAID THAT WAS A TYPO who in the world would put 10 skidsteers in 1 location, would probably go viral for stupidity yes.


Typo or not its still funny and you need to have some thick skin to hang with these guys.


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## LapeerLandscape

KevinCarter1988 said:


> I made it very clear, I was at 56 Acres off my quick measuring skills, I am impressed with phillbilly though haja


We keep him around just for doing math equations, he doesn't even plow snow.


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## KevinCarter1988

cjames808 said:


> Try writing down the equipment choices and their efficiency and balance that with your plan And how quickly you can get it done.
> 
> loader with 14-16'=X acres per hour somewhere between 6-10 acres hour
> That would take 8-10 hours. Need 2.
> 
> covering 56 acres ain't no joke. What if you get a 20" storm. Not A typo. You also need a muni sized salter and probably salt on site. If you fk up they'll fire you or you'll be looking for a new place next year with all that gear.
> 
> id be drooling over some new huge Hyundai's and the biggest Metal Pless you can fit.


I feel you are correct, I am trying to be stubborn knowing the amount of traffic here and the site not being open yet. I am low balling my equipment knowing service may lack but we will focus on what they need open. I need to make money this season and alot after last... thanks for your input!


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## Hydromaster

He’s going to do just fine.

the hazing can get a bit rough
But it’s because we see a lot of 
Guys who fake it until they don’t make it.


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## KevinCarter1988

Snow will make any boy a man, I live for snow, its been my life. I am so bored in the summer and start preparing and selling snow in late September. I am young and here to be the next generation. I cant stand management companies, feel they are ruining the industry. I am tired of not being paid for my work and not taking any **** from anyone this season. LET IT SNOWWWWWWWWWW


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## Mark Oomkes

We never stop selling snow...


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## KevinCarter1988

On a serious note, I feel everyone who had a smart comment or cant offer actual help, should probably get off this site. You are wasting your own time and mine trying to make a question your humor for the day. This industry is going to complete **** and if there's no support as a community then that's where it belongs. I am POSITIVE, I will be there fighting at the end with all the big accounts I can handle.


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## Hydromaster

Got the world by the tail.


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## cwren2472

KevinCarter1988 said:


> On a serious note, I feel everyone who had a smart comment or cant offer actual help, should probably get off this site. You are wasting your own time and mine trying to make a question your humor for the day. This industry is going to complete **** and if there's no support as a community then that's where it belongs. I am POSITIVE, I will be there fighting at the end with all the big accounts I can handle.


Not to be blunt, but in pretty much every post on here, you were either asking for advice, or you were telling the person that was offering the advice that they were wrong. So it really seems like you were just looking for someone to say "whatever you were already planning to use will be just fine."

So, whatever you were already planning to use will be just fine.


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## cwren2472

BTW, silly question. Just how many skids did you mean to type? We established it was a typo but I'm confused by what you meant to say.

Cuz, your post said "10 skid steers." With an S at the end. So if you meant to put 1, it would have been "10 skid steer." If you meant to say "2" skid steers, as you implied later, then you somehow hit "10" instead of "2". So, which was it?


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## Mark Oomkes

30 posts in 10 years and you have all the answers. 

Too bad you don't know the question.


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## Hydromaster

@10 skids each skid would need to clear
5.7AC 
What are your current production rate per skid. With 10 competent operators?


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## m_ice

Hydromaster said:


> @10 skids each skid would need to clear
> 5.7AC
> What are your current production rate per skid. With 10 competent operators?


About 2-3 hours set up right


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## cwren2472

KevinCarter1988 said:


> Seems a little excessive I think, 2 loaders? Ive done a lot more with a lot less equipment no offense. I am looking for the seasonal price but keep second guessing it.





KevinCarter1988 said:


> Okay so you don't think I can handle it with a f450 Wideout, two skids 10ft push box, 1 loader? I will have to disagree here and would love to stay in touch about it if your in the midwest?





KevinCarter1988 said:


> Thanks for the support and help, I see we can't disagree here and run successful businesses I guess. Hope we all have a great winter and sorry I asked minus the one guy who suggested the proper equipment who helped me price it correctly .





KevinCarter1988 said:


> LOL, wow but no offense we must drive too fast. I had roughly 64 accounts last season. I would love to have someone tell me I do not know my snow. We may operate different yes. Did you ask what size salter I had for my f450 sir?





KevinCarter1988 said:


> I will have to disagree here sorry.


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> BTW, silly question. Just how many skids did you mean to type? We established it was a typo but I'm confused by what you meant to say.
> 
> Cuz, your post said "10 skid steers." With an S at the end. So if you meant to put 1, it would have been "10 skid steer." If you meant to say "2" skid steers, as you implied later, then you somehow hit "10" instead of "2". So, which was it?


Already been asked and ignored. Also, I don't believe in coincidences and just 2 years ago he had 10 skidsteers he was trying to rent for the summer.


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## BossPlow2010

i think the OP needs to get his story straight and eat a piece of humble pie.
Since only some questions are getting answered, why would a shipping terminal (who’s primary job is logistics) wait until October for a snow bid, and what reason do they have to trust someone who doesn’t know how to bid it?


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## WIPensFan

KevinCarter1988 said:


> EVERYONE here is a critic but when you come for a quick question and get hassled its not a community sorry. If we want to talk like competition lets continue. I AM NO NOOB TO SNOW REMOVAL, I REPEAT. I have built my life off snow removal thank you!!


Sorry man. That was an inside joke. Meant to get a rise out of Lapeer. Don't get too frustrated. You're definitely gonna need a couple pieces of bigger equipment though. And probably a salter that can handle 10-15yds at a time. Maybe bigger…


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## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> Already been asked and ignored. Also, I don't believe in coincidences and just 2 years ago he had 10 skidsteers he was trying to rent for the summer.


Huh, well well well....


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## Hydromaster

KevinCarter1988 said:


> LOCATION:Chicago
> 
> Hey guys, love this forum,
> 
> We are responsible for the small walk up to the warehouse and the metal stair entrances around the building.
> 
> Seasonal is a option as well potentially.
> 
> Thanks guys!!





KevinCarter1988 said:


> I will have to disagree here sorry.
> 
> Theres zero sidewalks


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## cwren2472

Serious question. As someone who doesn't drive a skidsteer, what is the maximum density of skidsteers you can have driving around on a site in the middle of a blizzard before you reach a 100% certainty of 2 of them colliding?

Edit: typo. I meant to say 10% certanity chance.


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## WIPensFan

cwren2472 said:


> Serious question. As someone who doesn't drive a skidsteer, what is the maximum density of skidsteers you can have driving around on a site in the middle of a blizzard before you reach a 100% certainty of 2 of them colliding?
> 
> Edit: typo. I meant to say 10% certanity chance.


That site… 30
If 6-8 of the operators are hungover, still drunk or high, the chances increase exponentially.


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## Hydromaster

@cwren2472 
I thought you meant. .001%


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## Mike_PS

let's refrain from the continued off topic posts and unnecessary comments, please. thanks


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## WIPensFan

Honestly OP, go on YouTube and search snowplowing trucking facilities or snow removal at trucking facilities, and see what comes up. I bet you’d get a good idea of what other companies use on this type of site. I’m on it!


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## WIPensFan

You're gonna need 100 employees :laugh:





click watch on YouTube…


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## KevinCarter1988

I do not but I’m a fighter, self made, taught myself . I had about the same support you guys gave me in this thread


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## KevinCarter1988

Thank you for the guys who offered actual help and were not trying to pick me apart. We’re all out here fighting for our blood money, I’m a hell of a fighter.


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## BossPlow2010

KevinCarter1988 said:


> I do not but I'm a fighter, self made, taught myself . I had about the same support you guys gave me in this thread


You got 60 or so other properties by yourself, you've been given advice on what won't work well, no one is going to give you a number, that would be asinine, you've got a number, if you win it great, if you screw it up, hopefully
You'll learn from it.


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## cwren2472

KevinCarter1988 said:


> Did you ask what size salter I had for my f450 sir?


Oh hey, it doesn't look like anyone did ask- so what size salter do you have in your F450?

Maybe a 12 yard...? That sounds about right. That would hold roughly 25,000 lbs of salt which also sounds about right for a F450.... oops, wait, that's still only 450lbs per acre. Is that going to be enough?


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## Mark Oomkes

KevinCarter1988 said:


> Thank you for the guys who offered actual help and were not trying to pick me apart. We're all out here fighting for our blood money, I'm a hell of a fighter.


Then why don't you fight and answer the legitimate questions that have been asked?


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## Mark Oomkes

You claim to have done more with less. If you're a fighter, you would provide details rather than just attempting to belittle those who gave you advice.


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## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> You claim to have done more with less. If you're a fighter, you would provide details rather than just attempting to belittle those who gave you advice.


Why should he? He can let you Ritchie-Rich types with your "loaders" and "MP money" spend, spend, spend while he undercuts you with a walk behind blower and 3 guys with shovels. Very shrewd if you ask me.


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> Why should he? He can let you Ritchie-Rich types with your "loaders" and "MP money" spend, spend, spend while he undercuts you with a walk behind blower and 3 guys with shovels. Very smart if you ask me.


There are ZERO walks...


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## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> There are ZERO walks...


Who said anything about walks? You can shovel 8 acres and make a killing.

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/heres-what-we-billed-for-some-projects-reasonable.180926/
Now, just multiply the # of guys by 7 and *Bam!*

Edit: oops, that guy only shoveled 1/4 acre at a time. No biggie, just multiply by 28 and *Double Bam!*

Double edit: Oops, that should be multiply by 224.... alright, let me get back to you...


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## GMC Driver

I understand why the OP here is getting schooled. Often it's how you approach things. But it does have me curious as to where his numbers would end up.

Why?

Because I know the same thing happens in our market as well. Sometimes it really sucks having to explain why you're 2x or 3x the next guy. But most times you're thankful they just saved you a whole lot of hassle.


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## jonniesmooth




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## KevinCarter1988

I figured out the seasonal pricing, I have a bid formula that goes back five years. Thanks for all the "HELP"


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## KevinCarter1988

Ill update this when I sign the contract .


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## cwren2472

KevinCarter1988 said:


> I figured out the seasonal pricing, I have a bid formula that goes back five years. Thanks for all the "HELP"


Glad to hear you got it figured out!

Any chance you want to share your formula? It could really help a lot of others with less experience than you so you'd be doing them a real solid.


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## cjames808




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## BossPlow2010

KevinCarter1988 said:


> I figured out the seasonal pricing, I have a bid formula that goes back five years. Thanks for all the "HELP"


Glad you got the motivation from us to figure it out, don't give up on yourself so easily next time, you've had the balls to come back here, now have some faith in yourself and business.

since you submitted your bid what equipment are you specing for the property?


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## cwren2472

BossPlow2010 said:


> since you submitted your bid what equipment are you specing for the property?


He already said. Weren't you following along? He clearly said

10 skid steers, 1 wideout
1 loader, 3 skid steers, 1 wideout
2 loaders, 2 skid steers, 1 wideout
1 loader, 2 skid steers, 1 wideout


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> He already said. Weren't you following along? He clearly said
> 
> 10 skid steers, 1 wideout
> 1 loader, 3 skid steers, 1 wideout
> 2 loaders, 2 skid steers, 1 wideout
> 1 loader, 2 skid steers, 1 wideout


And ZERO walks...


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## Hydromaster

& Zero fire exists to keep clear


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## cwren2472

cwren2472 said:


> He already said. Weren't you following along? He clearly said
> 
> 10 skid steers, 1 wideout
> 1 loader, 3 skid steers, 1 wideout
> 2 loaders, 2 skid steers, 1 wideout
> 1 loader, 2 skid steers, 1 wideout


For the record, that's exactly what I would have used as well. I agree.


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## Mike_PS

he said he would come back and update once he signs the contract...so, let's wait for that to happen, please

thanks


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## WIPensFan

There better be some video available after the first snowfall. And as everyone knows… I’m not kidding!


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## Masssnowfighter

KevinCarter1988 said:


> I was thinking 10 skid steers and a truck that stays local with a 10 ft wideout,


4 loaders, 16' pushers with at least one of them with metal pless power angle wing plow for getting snow out from the kingpins. 1 skid steer for tight area cleanup. Big salt truck. Pre treating and live edge pushers is absolute must or you will be hating life dealing with 25 acres of hardpack. To put into perspective for you, you will be pushing snow back and fourth the length of 7+ football fields, so skidsteers with plows will be totally useless. You need to make sure they will give up at least 30-40 trailer parking spaces for snow stacking areas because pushing end to end will be a major time drain


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## Mark Oomkes

Masssnowfighter said:


> 4 loaders, 16' pushers with at least one of them with metal pless power angle wing plow for getting snow out from the kingpins. 1 skid steer for tight area cleanup. Big salt truck. Pre treating and live edge pushers is absolute must or you will be hating life dealing with 25 acres of hardpack. To put into perspective for you, you will be pushing snow back and fourth the length of 7+ football fields, so skidsteers with plows will be totally useless. You need to make sure they will give up at least 30-40 trailer parking spaces for snow stacking areas because pushing end to end will be a major time drain


Pfffft


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## Freshwater

cwren2472 said:


> He already said. Weren't you following along? He clearly said
> 
> 10 skid steers, 1 wideout
> 1 loader, 3 skid steers, 1 wideout
> 2 loaders, 2 skid steers, 1 wideout
> 1 loader, 2 skid steers, 1 wideout


So in reality, a couple hours in he'll be plowing with 1 loader and 1 skidsteer. After a couple hours of plowing 1 skidsteer will be constantly loading the f450 with salt, as he spreads 4yds of salt at a time.

OP 3.5 yards of salt was real close to max on my f450. 4 at a time cause your not driving on the road.


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## Mark Oomkes

Freshwater said:


> So in reality, a couple hours in he'll be plowing with 1 loader and 1 skidsteer. After a couple hours of plowing 1 skidsteer will be constantly loading the f450 with salt, as he spreads 4yds of salt at a time.
> 
> OP 3.5 yards of salt was real close to max on my f450. 4 at a time cause your not driving on the road.


Once upon a time, I used to leave our shop with 4 tons on a won ton every single time we salted. Back before DOT gave a crap about us...or we knew better.


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## 1olddogtwo

So, any updates?

How many quick cubes do you need?


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## Western1

es


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## 1olddogtwo

Serious, I don't/haven't been on PS for quite some time.....this is/was a humorous read. 

I have a wee bit of industry background, curiosity is getting the better of me. 

What's your final equipment bid?

The salt question was asked a few times, no real answer unless I missed it.

No sidewalks, right?

Still have fire/service doors/ramps/stairs?


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## Philbilly2

1olddogtwo said:


> The salt question was asked a few times, no real answer unless I missed it.












Many of these duster planes can do liquid and granular applications these days... seems like a perfect fit!


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## Freshwater

Philbilly2 said:


> Many of these duster planes can do liquid and granular applications these days... seems like a perfect fit!


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## cwren2472

1olddogtwo said:


> I have a wee bit of industry background, curiosity is getting the better of me.


I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for those answers....


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## dlange

All joking aside a person can do a large amount of acres with one or two trucks as long as the salt is on site or close by. Running hard with a 3-4 yard new salter.


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## BossPlow2010

dlange said:


> All joking aside a person can do a large amount of acres with one or two trucks as long as the salt is on site or close by. Running hard with a 3-4 yard new salter.


efficiently? No. 
possible? Yes
Probable? No


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## dlange

I guess it depends on the setup. I have been doing way more acres than that for years off of a pair of 450’s with 3-4 yard gas salters. I also spread 1000’s of acres a year with lime or fertilizer on one 17 yard buggy. Maybe I look at things different.


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## Philbilly2

dlange said:


> I have been doing way more acres than that for years off of a pair of 450's with 3-4 yard gas salters.


How long does it take to plow/salt 56 acres with 2 pickups?


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## cwren2472

Philbilly2 said:


> How long does it take to plow/salt 56 acres with 2 pickups?


About half as long as it would take with 1 pickup.


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> About half as long as it would take with 1 pickup.


Wouldn't it take roughly the same amount of time?


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## dlange

Philbilly2 said:


> How long does it take to plow/salt 56 acres with 2 pickups?


I only salt with them. I use wheel loaders and ag tractors to push. Pick ups are a waste of time on those size lots.


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## Philbilly2

dlange said:


> I only salt with them. I use wheel loaders and ag tractors to push. Pick ups are a waste of time on those size lots.


10-4 i was not aware you were just talking about the salting


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## Mike_PS

pretty sure this thread has gone way off point and run its course...if the OP comes back and wants it reopened then they can contact me


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