# paying subs???



## ACA L&L (Jan 5, 2007)

We are going to be using a guy this year to help keep up with our demand, i think.....

We are firends but not buddies, he has his own truck, insurance, biz license. He also has a lawn and landscape comapny that he operates in the summer, a one man show. He does great work and can be trusted.

my question is how do most of u guys handle paying someone who does some of your contracts strictly as a sub. Say we r charging $150 an hour. How would u determine what to pay him? This is all new to us as we usually do it all in house. Since he is paying for everything and we r just supplying the work, how do we determine what to pay him?? any and all feedback would be welcome. Also would it be better to find someone who has a truck ready to go and put them on our insurance and gas bill and pay him hourly? again any feedback on this subject would be great. we need to be sure we r able to cover all of contracted work this year and this is an option.


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## Farm Boss (Jan 20, 2007)

Pay him to run his truck with his expenses. I can't tell you what the sub rate is in your area. What I can tell you is that it would get real crazy if you paid him to run his truck with your gas and insurance. What about wear/tear/breakdowns and all the rest that goes with it? Pay him as a sub then you won't have to deal with his truck. Otherwise buy another truck/plow and have someone run that.


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## ACA L&L (Jan 5, 2007)

Farm Boss;604910 said:


> Pay him to run his truck with his expenses. I can't tell you what the sub rate is in your area. What I can tell you is that it would get real crazy if you paid him to run his truck with your gas and insurance. What about wear/tear/breakdowns and all the rest that goes with it? Pay him as a sub then you won't have to deal with his truck. Otherwise buy another truck/plow and have someone run that.


Next year we will be able to outfit another truck with a plow. Right now i think this is the way to go. So do most guys pay there subs by the job, or hourly. I have no idea what the sub rate is here. we have never used one. If someone wants us to do there plowing we charge them our rate. What is the rate in your area for subs? Is it hourly or by job? I know they will be diffrent but we dont have that many people that plow here. The ones that do plow have there own accounts to mangae. Just trying to get an idea as to what is fair, i dont want him to feel like he is not be compensated and i dont want to feel like im throwing money out the window so to speak.

by the way my step father lives up there minnesota, he said it rained quite a bit this year.


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

if you say hes good at what he does ? then pay him what hes worth. or do you want all the profit for yourself? be fair with him and im sure he would return the fairness? imo


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## hickslawns (Dec 18, 2004)

Whatever you do just have it all mapped out before the snow flies. We do a combination with subs. Some accounts they know they will make x dollars each time they plow it. Others it is hourly. Whatever you feel is a fair amount for both parties. Ask him what he needs to make per hour. Are you paying at billing or when you get paid? Might make a difference. If he is willing to wait until you collect, then you probably need to make a smaller margin. If he expects payment upon his invoicing to you, then probably a lower amount. Food for thought.


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## bltp203 (Nov 5, 2006)

Pay him $75 per hour............he makes money, you make money.


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## erkoehler (Sep 25, 2008)

Maybe I missed it, where are you doing the plowing?


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

100 at least


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

bltp203;605040 said:


> Pay him $75 per hour............he makes money, you make money.


couldn't agree any more.


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## 26543 (Jan 28, 2008)

I'd say between 75-110 per hr depending on how good he is JMO


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## ACA L&L (Jan 5, 2007)

erkoehler;605053 said:


> Maybe I missed it, where are you doing the plowing?


If u can beleive it or not Albuquerque New Mexico! we have snow every year, sometimes its not bad the usual plow /shovel/ice melt on walkways for the commercial propertys. Other years are struggling to keep up with the storms.


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## Cassy (Aug 10, 2006)

pay him an hourly rate under what you charge, so if you bill yourselves out at $150 per hour, pay him $50 per hour or something like that. I can't advise on what is the going rate in your area, but something where he's going to be making money even after he puts gas in the truck. 

i sub for a guy in town. I have my own truck, pay for my own gas, and have my own business insurance. He doesn't put me on his insurance. I get paid an hourly rate which covers any gas that I expend during work hours, as well as leaves me with profit.


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## vis (Nov 20, 2004)

We have a guy that helps us using his own truck/plow. He is very good and very efficient. We pay him by the job. Some jobs are for example, 150 per push, so he gets around 60-70$ per time, and most hes in and out of so quick he can do 3 of them an hour. Some may say that its alot of money, but I know when he is on that job he is going to leave it spotless and all i need to do is salt it. Basically the amount of money he makes per storm is how bad I need him to pick up the slack. Some big storms he walks away with 2000 or more, other storms he stays home, it depends on the situation.


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## ACA L&L (Jan 5, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies. 
cost of snow plow.....$5500.00 
cost of gas while using that purdy snow plow...unknown
advice and real world experience from plowsite.....u got it PRICELESS!!!!!

Thanks again fellas.ussmileyflag


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

what ever you do buy his gas!!!!! this saves tons of money in the end...our GL and WC ins is based on wages and if he doesn't carry WC or GL you'll be paying extra...if you buy the gas it's a straight up wrtie off for taxes.....


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

You didnt say what kind of equipment he is running, but I am assuming a Pick up with 8' Plow. A good rule of thumb is to pay a little bit more than the state or town is paying for that exact set up. The reason you pay more, is you will probably have less hours, and most likely you will care a lot more what happens on your lot, vs the town caring about hitting curbs cars and mailboxes. My subs are $75 per hour to start, and they top out at $100 for a 1 ton pick up with 8' blade.


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## ACA L&L (Jan 5, 2007)

Gicon;605882 said:


> You didnt say what kind of equipment he is running, but I am assuming a Pick up with 8' Plow. A good rule of thumb is to pay a little bit more than the state or town is paying for that exact set up. The reason you pay more, is you will probably have less hours, and most likely you will care a lot more what happens on your lot, vs the town caring about hitting curbs cars and mailboxes. My subs are $75 per hour to start, and they top out at $100 for a 1 ton pick up with 8' blade.


3/4 ton with a 7'6" western. Its brand spankin new!

On a side note, I never would of thought moving here from Chicago a number of years ago that snowplowing would be so lucrative in the desert!


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

Lol. Nevertheless, I'd feel around to see what others are paying subs. I'm a sub and can tell you that the #'s above are unheard of around here. A few years back I was only making $50 per truck (myself, $45 for secondaries). As of last year it's $67 per truck with another company which is pretty good IMHO, travel time btw lots included. Remember to factor in drive time if there is any. This is using my own liability ins and getting paid as a company. Some of the big snow companies here will claim $75+, but I have yet to see it; and also, no way is someone starting at that and booking big hours if they are. 

I'll work all night and day for a few less dollars per hour rather than getting sent home when the snow stops and I'm not needed as much. I've seen that before. My brother in law used to brag when he made $60 and I made $50 like 6-7 years ago. He'd finish up a big storm at like 4am, meanwhile I'd be out till mid day. Plus he got paid per lot time, and I got paid straight through. Break it down and I made twice as much as him.


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## M&A Property Maintenance (Sep 29, 2006)

Gicon;605882 said:


> You didnt say what kind of equipment he is running, but I am assuming a Pick up with 8' Plow. A good rule of thumb is to pay a little bit more than the state or town is paying for that exact set up. The reason you pay more, is you will probably have less hours, and most likely you will care a lot more what happens on your lot, vs the town caring about hitting curbs cars and mailboxes. My subs are $75 per hour to start, and they top out at $100 for a 1 ton pick up with 8' blade.


Listen to this guy, he know what he is talking about

I am a sub. My first year with my own 3/4 ton 8' blade i made 60 an hour.
second year 75 an hour
3 year 90 and hour. 
I guess the more reliable the owner and the plow are the more they should make. I would assume that I would top out around 110


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

If you dont treat your subs well, they can leave you high and dry. If you skimp $5 or $10 per hour to get a less expensive guy in there, if he leaves you flat one storm, it can cost you hundreds and usually thousands !$!$!$


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## plowtime1 (Nov 1, 2007)

Yep...dont skimp the subs..your rewards will multiply!


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## BOSShog (Oct 16, 2008)

Truck Insurance , the Truck + Plow = good amount of cabbidge! Do i even mention fuel?
75+ is a good bet.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

The $75-$100 that I pay allows no truck or plow older than 4 years old. Someone with a 15 year old truck and plow doesnt have the income or earning potential as someone with with newer, more advanced equipment.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Gicon;610271 said:


> The $75-$100 that I pay allows no truck or plow older than 4 years old. Someone with a 15 year old truck and plow doesnt have the income or earning potential as someone with with newer, more advanced equipment.


How do you figure?
Most us us do not pay cash for a 4yr old or newer truck so you have a loan payment. and INS

A guy with a truck that is paid for and a few years old is more likely to work it when the going gets rough.
The guy whit the new one doesn't want to get it dirty.

Give me the guy with the late model...

I can make as much if not more than you with my 98 or my 01 . Heck after a statement like that I bet I can make as much as you do with my 74....
Hint, no over head and I'm a proficient operator with maintained equipment..

Don't dismiss a vehicle because of it's age Do so on it's ability to do the job.

Yea, a lot of advancements have been made. Like what? 
The intention of the snow plow or 4wheel drive?


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Sno, the gentleman who started this thread is looking for advice on paying subs. I am giving him a good basis to go off of with reasons to back up my pay scale. This is not the start of a: who can make more money plowing war.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

gicon,

read my post....

The guy with the new truck is not going to work it he is going to baby it.
Hire the sub that knows how to plow with the late model truck..
An older truck can have a new plow on it but what does that matter.Ve plows have been around for a long time.
A str8 plow is a str8 plow
so, what are these advancements you speak of?

Why pay him more because he has a new truck??


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Okay, ill keep that in mind the next time I am hiring.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Gicon;610294 said:


> Okay, ill keep that in mind the next time I am hiring.


Gicon;, the gentleman who started this thread is looking for advice on paying subs.
.

Use caution kids when someone wants to change the topic...

big deal I hire too so what..and I have been a sub...


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## erkoehler (Sep 25, 2008)

SnoFarmer;610285 said:


> How do you figure?
> Most us us do not pay cash for a 4yr old or newer truck so you have a loan payment. and INS
> 
> A guy with a truck that is paid for and a few years old is more likely to work it when the going gets rough.
> ...


I would have to agree!

I don't have much experience, but with a few storms under my belt I would put my 2001 2500hd against a new 2500hd truck. You can't judge the truck simply on the year, my 2001 has under 30,000 miles and is MINT! Plus, it will have a brand new plow when I start this season


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Sno, dont even try to think you are going to tell me about productivity in the Snow and Ice Industry. Regardless of what you think your 74 or 80 or 90's truck is capable of, the sales numbers dont lie. Lets talk about dollars per hour and see where you stand. The facts are the facts. You are expressing an opinion. I am stating a fact.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Gicon;610302 said:


> Sno, dont even try to think you are going to tell me about productivity in the Snow and Ice Industry. Regardless of what you think your 74 or 80 or 90's truck is capable of, the sales numbers dont lie. Lets talk about dollars per hour and see where you stand. The facts are the facts. You are expressing an opinion. I am stating a fact.


He has risen.

No, I just expressed widely known facts.

A guy with a new truck & plow or with payments is not going to push it as hard as the guy with the older truck that is paid for..

Again what are these innovations you speak of?
air bags, sirius radio?

show me your #'s and site the source thanks...


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

SnoFarmer;610337 said:


> A guy with a new truck & plow or with payments is not going to push it as hard as the guy with the older truck that is paid for..
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> You have it wrong pal. The guy with the truck thats paid off doesnt need the money, and doesnt want to beat his old truck up. The guy with the new truck and payments needs to make the money. You have it backwards.


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## Farm Boss (Jan 20, 2007)

Gicon;610302 said:


> Sno, dont even try to think you are going to tell me about productivity in the Snow and Ice Industry. Regardless of what you think your 74 or 80 or 90's truck is capable of, the sales numbers dont lie. Lets talk about dollars per hour and see where you stand. The facts are the facts. You are expressing an opinion. I am stating a fact.


What "fact" are you stating?? How do you know you make more than snofarmer??? How can you compare, our area may be totally different than yours. Just because you have a new truck doesn't make it a fact that you are making more dollars per hr.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Farm Boss;610343 said:


> What "fact" are you stating?? How do you know you make more than snofarmer??? How can you compare, our area may be totally different than yours. Just because you have a new truck doesn't make it a fact that you are making more dollars per hr.


I didnt say I make more money than him. He told me I make more money than he does, and I pay cash for my trucks. I dont know who his source for that info is though.....He seems like a pretty smart guy if he knows how large my company is.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Gicon;610302 said:


> Sno, dont even try to think you are going to tell me about productivity in the Snow and Ice Industry. Regardless of what you think your 74 or 80 or 90's truck is capable of, the sales numbers dont lie. Lets talk about dollars per hour and see where you stand. The facts are the facts. You are expressing an opinion. I am stating a fact.


Productivity statements from a guy that runs and recommends a 8.5 or smaller blade for a 3500.

" F-350 Regular Cab 1 Ton, 8' Plow.
__________________
2004 F-350 Diesel 8.5' SS X-Blade
2004 F-350 Lariet 8' SS X-Blade ."

Seeing as you got this way OT Your blade is to short for such a big truck......
You can take that any way you want......
That is an opinion and a fact balled all in to one.

The guy with the older truck will push it harder for you when the going gets rough. He gets to keep all the money. 
SO how does this make him lazy..

Hold on It's a back handed complement..... I'm sorry

LOPoA.....:waving::waving::waving:

My business buys my trucks and It makes my payments for me. sorry.

I said "Most us us do not pay cash for a 4yr old or newer truck so you have a loan payment. and INS"

"Most Of us" you assumed a fact...

I know millionaires who take out a loan for their vehicles.
It's a way to keep that credit ratting way up but you knew that right.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

That reccomendation was for a newbie. Not a seasoned veteran. You see the 8.5 that I run, and that 8 will be an 8.5 once its time. I could outplow you with a 7.5' straightblade, and you could have a 9' Vee.


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## BOSShog (Oct 16, 2008)

chip and a chair this is better then saturday night live naaa... ill take palline anyday!


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Gicon;610357 said:


> I could outplow you with a 7.5' straightblade, and you could have a 9' Vee.


Thats a fact pal. Ill bet you anything you want.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

BOSShog;610358 said:


> chip and a chair this is better then saturday night live naaa... ill take palline anyday!


BossHog, place your bets. See who can outplow who in the ultimate PlowSite Showdown........


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## Farm Boss (Jan 20, 2007)

Gicon;610359 said:


> Thats a fact pal. Ill bet you anything you want.


How can you say for a fact you can out plow anyone?!?! I just don't get it!!!!


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Farm Boss;610366 said:


> How can you say for a fact you can out plow anyone?!?! I just don't get it!!!!


Not just anyone..........SnoFarmer!!!!!!!!!


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## Farm Boss (Jan 20, 2007)

Drive here and have a plow off, I could be the race official!


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

we have an offical.
So bring that new truck with that new 8.5ft plow over hear.

any day...
Want to make it interesting????


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Sno, you dont really want to loose in front of your friends, do you? Farm boss wouldnt be able to look at you the same way if you lost to a Massachusetts guy. I know MN and MA are very simlar, but also have many differences.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Don't worry about me, I'm willing to take that chance.
wouldn't you want to have Bragging rights?

After all a rich guy like you could fly hear and buy a new truck and plow....


But really what are these innovations you speak of?


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Attack angles on Trip Edges. Electronics. Horsepower. Tourque. Comfort Creatures. Lighting. There are many improvements to increase driver productivity in newer vehicles, and it is only continuing to get better. I dont have time to type out all of the fine details here, but we will discuss them over my victory dinner. Where will you be taking me? And oh by the way, I dont fly on commercial airlines.....I have my personal pilot fly me where I need to go.


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## M&A Property Maintenance (Sep 29, 2006)

SnoFarmer;610293 said:


> gicon,
> 
> read my post....
> 
> ...


JMO a guy with a new truck is going to have a warranty compared to the guy with the older truck with no warranty. so i think that they guy with the new truck is going to push it harder compared to the guy with the old truck who will not cause of the fact that he is going to have to pay for his repairs, breakdowns etc...

pay more for the guy with the new truck. less breakdown, less repairs


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

just a perception.
I have seen lots of people plow.
The quickest ones i have seen plow have trucks they use only for plowing and run for cash (not a legit business). One that comes to mind is a lifted 85 shortbox chevy a guy runs just to plow with a older straight blade but there are lots of people that run old trucks. I have sat and watched this one particular guy bang sh1t out with that truck while the guy next door plowing has a nice fairly new truck with a v (nice lights, name on the side) and is a "actual business".
Guess who finishes first?
some of these guys need money, have old trucks they use JUST FOR PLOWING its virtually scary how they run some of these trucks. THEY DONT CARE. The parts are from junk yards, they weld whatever breaks. And they are hungry. And if the truck does break lots of these boys have another junker for a backup and neither one they care if its running come the end of winter. I know most on this site hate these kind of plowers and im sure all of you have seen them. lowballer, running under the table yada yada.
But this thread is about plowing fast and getting it done and these boys GET IT DONE. they have trucks whose sole purpose is to beat the crap out of pushing snow and arent afraid to piece it together with spare parts and a welding rod.. while the more normal of us are thinking we should slow down some they have the throttle down.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

If you can buy a brand new truck, and pay it off within a couple of years, why not plow with that. Its paid off, brandney new, and mint inside. Still dont have to worry about things breaking, and trucks not starting.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Gicon;610419 said:


> If you can buy a brand new truck, and pay it off within a couple of years, why not plow with that. Its paid off, brandney new, and mint inside. Still dont have to worry about things breaking, and trucks not starting.


and they would probably tell you "why the he11 would i want to push snow with a nice truck".

keep in mind they have no payments.
carry minimum liability if any.
registrations are dirt cheap
would break any truck if they drove it like they do their beaters.
And dont want to be plowing in something they actually care about.
instead of spending the 25k 30k or more on a new truck they just pocketed it.
maybe the truck they dont plow with is the one worth 30k.


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## M&A Property Maintenance (Sep 29, 2006)

bribrius;610440 said:


> and they would probably tell you "why the he11 would i want to push snow with a nice truck".
> 
> keep in mind they have no payments.
> carry minimum liability if any.
> ...


why have a truck if you are not going to use it?? you just want to drive it around town and show it off?? that make no sense to me.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

MFIGGS422;610408 said:


> JMO a guy with a new truck is going to have a warranty compared to the guy with the older truck with no warranty. so i think that they guy with the new truck is going to push it harder compared to the guy with the old truck who will not cause of the fact that he is going to have to pay for his repairs, breakdowns etc...
> 
> pay more for the guy with the new truck. less breakdown, less repairs


I can see that part to a point.
The new truck will be at the dealer to get fixed when it breaks down
(some of these warranties are for 5to7 to lifetime warranties) 
While the guy with the late model will have it fixed him self(probably ) and be right back on the road while the other guy is waiting for the dealer..
It could have broke down on fri....lol

I see the guy with the new truck not wanting to scratch his shiny new toy.
Owning both new 08 and a couple of late model trucks, I'll tell you this the new truck will be the last one out plowing as I don't want to mess it up plowing.

I see a new truck and plow with a guy wanting to be a sub and I see inexperience.
If he has a business with new equipment why does he not hold the contract.
Why does he want to sub and make less?

That's purely an prejudges I have 
I can be wrong, it's just an opinion.



bribrius;610410 said:


> just a perception.
> I have seen lots of people plow.
> The quickest ones i have seen plow have trucks they use only for plowing and run for cash (not a legit business). One that comes to mind is a lifted 85 shortbox chevy a guy runs just to plow with a older straight blade but there are lots of people that run old trucks. I have sat and watched this one particular guy bang sh1t out with that truck while the guy next door plowing has a nice fairly new truck with a v (nice lights, name on the side) and is a "actual business".
> Guess who finishes first?
> ...


Time is money....

But lets move up to middle class plowers for Subs Bir...lol
 everyone needs beer money.



Gicon;610390 said:


> Attack angles on Trip Edges.
> nothing new there I bet they were invented before ether one of us werer born.
> 
> Electronics. Horsepower. Tourque.
> ...


Like I said a late "a model" not a 48 gmc You know some late model trucks have those new fangeled electronics in em.

A late model is just as capable as any new truck.

If you do win, anywhere in town.
Don't think Duluth is some northern back woods hick town.
We have more millionaires per capa than almost any where else in the U.S.
So all the restaurants are top notch.

ho yea. when I said " fly out hear"
I should have worded it better.
I meant flap your wings...

Is this the longest post ever.......lololol


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

MFIGGS422;610442 said:


> why have a truck if you are not going to use it?? you just want to drive it around town and show it off?? that make no sense to me.


why spend 30k on a truck just to beat it into the ground? doesnt make much sense to me.
i know a couple of them like this and the nice trucks come off the road in the winter . then its time for the plow trucks to go out and play in the salt and snow so they can rust some more..
cant speak for everyone who i see that plows in a junk truck just the couple i know personally. They wont even plow with a new truck or put a plow on one.


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## M&A Property Maintenance (Sep 29, 2006)

SnoFarmer;610449 said:


> I can see that part to a point.
> The new truck will be at the dealer to get fixed when it breaks down
> (some of these warranties are for 5to7 to lifetime warranties)
> While the guy with the late model will have it fixed him self(probably ) and be right back on the road while the other guy is waiting for the dealer..
> ...


That's right, a new truck goes to the dealership to get fixed, I don't know about the dealers in you neck of the woods, but ours out here will help you out and service your truck right away when they know that you are out working. They are open on Saturdays too.

Now on the other hand "Mr. Fix It", has to try to find a garage, the right parts and the right tools. All that time searching for the right part and tools (never mind that he has to find a ride to the parts store cause his truck is in pieces), you could be in and out of the dealer ship in no time. What if it's Sunday, where are they going to get the part??

Now, you see a new truck and new plow, you think newbie, How about you look at the glass half full and think, this guy must have just upgraded his equipment and know what he is doing. He doesn't want to get behind on the times and plow with and old plow that has rusted through. No one want to be suck out in the cold trying to fix there beater from 1974

Maybe he wants to be a sub because he doesn't have the time to run around and do estimates, send bills, line up accounts etc...
Maybe he has another job that is his full time job and plows as a sub on the side for the extra cash. Maybe he doesn't want to be a low baller that you all speak of.


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## M&A Property Maintenance (Sep 29, 2006)

bribrius;610455 said:


> why spend 30k on a truck just to beat it into the ground? doesnt make much sense to me.
> i know a couple of them like this and the nice trucks come off the road in the winter . then its time for the plow trucks to go out and play in the salt and snow so they can rust some more..
> cant speak for everyone who i see that plows in a junk truck just the couple i know personally. They wont even plow with a new truck or put a plow on one.


Again, so what the point of owning the truck??

Might as well go and spend the 30k on a nice Mustang or Vette


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

bribrius;610455 said:


> why spend 30k on a truck just to beat it into the ground? doesnt make much sense to me.
> i know a couple of them like this and the nice trucks come off the road in the winter . then its time for the plow trucks to go out and play in the salt and snow so they can rust some more..
> cant speak for everyone who i see that plows in a junk truck just the couple i know personally. They wont even plow with a new truck or put a plow on one.


Exactily.

Why do you have to plow with your new truck?
Work trucks are for work.
Some have different jobs.
The 08's first job will be to tow my 5th wheel then to plow when the time comes.
(It only has 560mi on it . Right now it's collecting dust in the shop..)
The other 3 are plow rigs.

I also have a car and a suv, I'm secure enough in my manhood not to have to drive a full size truck every where I go.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

bribrius;610455 said:


> why spend 30k on a truck just to beat it into the ground?QUOTE]
> 
> Bri, I have spent a hell of a lot more than $30K on my truck and if I could get the pictures posted theres not one second where you would label it as: "beat into the ground, or abused" I dont know who taught you how to plow, but I never learned how to beat a truck into the ground. You beat an old truck when it doesnt have enough power to push up a pile and you have to ram it multiple times. You beat an old truck when you have to floor the gas to try to get some momentum and power. You dont beat a brand new truck.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

*Do these trucks look beat?*

Do these trucks look beat? They go out everytime it snows for the largest Residential Snow Plowing company in my town......My company. Let me know where they look beat.


----------



## erkoehler (Sep 25, 2008)

MFIGGS422;610442 said:


> why have a truck if you are not going to use it?? you just want to drive it around town and show it off?? that make no sense to me.


I have a truck that I ONLY use for snowmobile trips/towing boats. I use it to haul 100,000 dollar boats, and I want it to be PERFECT! My full time job is business manager for Chicago MasterCraft, so I need it to be sharp!

This will be the first winter I don't have that dedicated truck for this as I am giving snow plowing a chance. Hopefully all goes well and I will have the cash to replace that vehicle after a good winter:salute:


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

MFIGGS422;610468 said:


> That's right, a new truck goes to the dealership to get fixed, I don't know about the dealers in you neck of the woods, but ours out here will help you out and service your truck right away when they know that you are out working. They are open on Saturdays too.
> 
> The dealers around hear are a bunch of pre-Madonnas, well take a look at and give you a call......What if you live in a small town a dealer could be a ways away.
> 
> ...


Maybe............


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

MFIGGS422;610472 said:


> Again, so what the point of owning the truck??
> 
> Might as well go and spend the 30k on a nice Mustang or Vette


one already has a mustang, and a old chevelle, a old thunderbird, I dont know what he has for a daily driver i think its a p.o.s. something or other, but i guess there are vehicles you care about, and vehicles you dont lol.

the other i have no idea what he has for toys.
Last i knew he owned a garage though and specifically had his "plow trucks" and his "nice truck".

you dont know anyone that stores their nice trucks in the winter im guessing or wont plow with them. Its not as uncommon as you think.



Gicon;610491 said:


> bribrius;610455 said:
> 
> 
> > why spend 30k on a truck just to beat it into the ground?QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

You MUST live in a small town if you can get a sticker for that 74 to keep it on the road. MA Doesnt allow those kinds of things...


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Bri: my trannys are: Strong to Quite Strong. The grey truck is my everyday driver.


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## M&A Property Maintenance (Sep 29, 2006)

SnoFarmer;610525 said:


> Maybe............


Who's to say that the guy with the new truck doesn't know how to fix things?? I'm sure if it only takes 5 mins to repair, anyone could fix it


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Gicon;610496 said:


> Do these trucks look beat? They go out everytime it snows for the largest Residential Snow Plowing company in my town......My company. Let me know where they look beat.


For a guy that owes a jet they look like a average middle class truck.
I would think such a successful plow operation would own a fleet of trucks not just two.

You have seen pics my trucks do they look beat even the 74 isn't covered in dents.
so what.....

ho yea your trucks are getting to old you say to plow with economically and that you should only use trucks 4years old and newer. Yours are 4 years old, time to trade them in...


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

MFIGGS422;610532 said:


> Who's to say that the guy with the new truck doesn't know how to fix things?? I'm sure if it only takes 5 mins to repair, anyone could fix it


MFiggs, newer trucks dont break. There is no need to know how to fix things that wont break. Problem solved.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

SnoFarmer;610535 said:


> For a guy that owes a jet they look like a average middle class truck.
> I would think such a successful plow operation would own a fleet of trucks not just two.
> 
> You have seen pics my trucks do they look beat even the 74 isn't covered in dents.
> ...


Just becuase you havnt seen it, doesnt mean I dont own it. My trucks arent getting old. The grey one has 31,000 on it. That truck will be around for a while. The brand new trucks have to pay for themselves three times over before I can get rid of them. I need another season or two for that. After that, I will look into an 07. I dont like the new body style or interior changes on the 2008. Unless I hold out to see what 2010-2011 brings. In the meantime, the focus is on squeezing every possible dollar out of the 04's before its time for the scrap yard. The rest of the money savings goes to buying Jet Fuel.


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Gicon;610540 said:


> MFiggs, newer trucks dont break. There is no need to know how to fix things that wont break. Problem solved.


your
joking now right? 

lol. hahahahahaha.


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Gicon;610545 said:


> Just becuase you havnt seen it, doesnt mean I dont own it. My trucks arent getting old. The grey one has 31,000 on it. That truck will be around for a while. The brand new trucks have to pay for themselves three times over before I can get rid of them. I need another season or two for that. After that, I will look into an 07. I dont like the new body style or interior changes on the 2008. Unless I hold out to see what 2010-2011 brings. In the meantime, the focus is on squeezing every possible dollar out of the 04's before its time for the scrap yard. The rest of the money savings goes to buying Jet Fuel.


what do you have a sessna?

i saw my neighbor put one together in his garage. came in a kit assembly required. kind of neat actually and didnt cost much. Most people i know that can REALLY afford a decent plane though have enough money so they wouldnt waste there time plowing so your confusing me here.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

MFIGGS422;610532 said:


> Who's to say that the guy with the new truck doesn't know how to fix things?? I'm sure if it only takes 5 mins to repair, anyone could fix it


But why would he? He has a warranty because it's new.....
There not going to reimburse him for the parts.
This goes for the plow too.

A lot of these guys are not very mechanically inclined I think you should be in this line of work.
So a guy with an well maintained late model truck speaks volumes to me.
It says he knows how to fix his truck he needs money because as I'm told if you have money you plow with a new truck. and he wants that new truck.
Hint ao 04 is not new any more.

Yes a few do know how to fix things I said it was a prejudice.

The word prejudice refers to prejudgment: making a decision before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case or event.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Says here in the manual: Call your Ford Dealer.................Thats the book I like to read......


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Bribus, first of all a Cessna, is not a jet engine plane like I have. It is a prop plane. Second of all, new trucks dont break. Ask me. I own a couple of them. Only old trucks break.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Gicon;610582 said:


> Bribus, first of all a Cessna, is not a jet engine plane like I have. It is a prop plane. Second of all, new trucks dont break. Ask me. I own a couple of them. Only old trucks break.


Pure fiction..pumpkin:


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Gicon;610582 said:


> Bribus, first of all a Cessna, is not a jet engine plane like I have. It is a prop plane. Second of all, new trucks dont break. Ask me. I own a couple of them. Only old trucks break.


nope. sorry.
i frigged up the frame on a ford that was only a month old.

my nissan was in the shop less than a week after i bought it.

not only that when i have gone to the dealer for something i have seen lots of new trucks getting worked on.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

bribrius;610590 said:


> nope. sorry.
> i frigged up the frame on a ford that was only a month old.
> 
> my nissan was in the shop less than a week after i bought it.
> ...


Frigging up the frame, as you say would have to do with that whole "Learning how to plow" lesson that we talked about earlier.

Your Nissan? Nissan? I thought we were talking about trucks here....

If you see new trucks getting worked on at the dealer than that must mean they are bad, and the only good trucks are the old ones.


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## M&A Property Maintenance (Sep 29, 2006)

bribrius;610590 said:


> nope. sorry.
> i frigged up the frame on a ford that was only a month old.
> 
> my nissan was in the shop less than a week after i bought it.
> ...


new trucks being worked on, you mean regular scheduled maintenance??

and driving into a tree doesn't count for messing up the frame.


----------



## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

MFIGGS422;610596 said:


> new trucks being worked on, you mean regular scheduled maintenance??
> 
> and driving into a tree doesn't count for messing up the frame.


MFiggs, if Brib's NISSAN was in the shop, that has to be a clear indication that any newer model ford is obviously worthless, and a piece of junk. I dont know if it was his Maxima or Altima, but either way, Nissan is a pretty serious brand name. If they are having problems, you know the Fords are.


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

nope. wasnt a tree on the ford..
my other nissan truck i had though also had a frame issue that was all about a tree. The tree ran out and jumped into the middle of the truck. i tried to avoid it but it was a real fast tree.

I understand trucks get regular maint. duh. But i see lots of trucks getting irregular maint.
follow me? Call your dealers and say "do new trucks break?" and im sure they will say some line like "well, certain vehicles do have problems but our service professionals.......dadadadada"
this isnt about which is better, a old truck or a new truck. this is about someone saying that you can accomplish more with a new truck and this is the part i disagree with.

and i want to see a pic of this plane because i dont understand why a guy who says he has a jet bothers plowing snow and living in middle class neighborhood.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Same reason Warren Buffett drives the car that he drives. You plow for love of the game. Not the money. Its blood money. My dealer told me new trucks dont break down so thats what I bought. I cant afford breakdowns.


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## M&A Property Maintenance (Sep 29, 2006)

bribrius;610612 said:


> nope. wasnt a tree on the ford..
> my other nissan truck i had though also had a frame issue that was all about a tree. The tree ran out and jumped into the middle of the truck. i tried to avoid it but it was a real fast tree.
> 
> I understand trucks get regular maint. duh. But i see lots of trucks getting irregular maint.
> ...


Those trees keep getting faster and faster every year

I think the new truck can run circle around the old truck. more power=more snow moved in a faster amount of time


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

bribrius;610612 said:


> .
> 
> and i want to see a pic of this plane because i dont understand why a guy who says he has a jet bothers plowing snow and living in middle class neighborhood.


Because he likes slumming it and he found that if he adds the ford then he just looks like a middle class schmo..
Haven't you been paying attention to the ford commercials.bri.

'new fords break" blasphemy....................


----------



## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

MFiggs, have these guys even test drove the New Fords? I know I could knock trees over with mine all day long. No tree is going to stop me.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

MFIGGS422;610636 said:


> I think the new truck can run circle around the old truck. more power=more snow moved in a faster amount of time


so an older truck has less power than new one and age affects turning ability?


----------



## M&A Property Maintenance (Sep 29, 2006)

Gicon;610647 said:


> MFiggs, have these guys even test drove the New Fords? I know I could knock trees over with mine all day long. No tree is going to stop me.


from what I understand, NO. They like the older trucks.


----------



## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

SnoFarmer;610650 said:


> so an older truck has less power than new one and age affects turning ability?


Underpowered trucks cant move snow.
Old trucks whine when you turn the wheel. 
New trucks turn nice and tight.


----------



## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

MFIGGS422;610652 said:


> from what I understand, NO. They like the older trucks.


New trucks arent obtainable for everyone now......We will always need buyers for ours when we are done with them.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Gicon;610647 said:


> MFiggs, have these guys even test drove the New Fords? I know I could knock trees over with mine all day long. No tree is going to stop me.


I just did this summer just for sihts and grins before I bought my new Dodge
I still don't like them they lack in turning radius and power.


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## M&A Property Maintenance (Sep 29, 2006)

SnoFarmer;610650 said:


> so an older truck has less power than new one and age affects turning ability?


more power, more torque= more snow moved in less time

no age does not affect turning.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

snofarmer;610657 said:


> i just did this summer just for sihts and grins before i bought my new dodge
> i still don't like them they lack in turning radius and power.


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Gicon;610653 said:


> Underpowered trucks cant move snow.
> Old trucks whine when you turn the wheel.
> New trucks turn nice and tight.


That must be a ford thing hugh..
You would think you would be getting tired of it by now..

so his 4 year ford is worn out and at such low millage too, yet he is going to buy more of them?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

MFIGGS422;610659 said:


> more power, more torque= more snow moved in less time
> 
> no age does not affect turning.


Age  does not effect HP or torque ether.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

SnoFarmer;610683 said:


> Age does not effect HP or torque ether.


It absolutely does. Every 4 years Ford introduces a new engine with more power and more tourque. You want to do a tug of war with my 04 and your 74 to prove it>?


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Gicon;610688 said:


> It absolutely does. Every 4 years Ford introduces a new engine with more power and more tourque. You want to do a tug of war with my 04 and your 74 to prove it>?


Means nothing if you can't get it to the pavement.

Bring it with you when you come over. 
Have you heard about gearing and weight?
And a competent operator
Even with her 318 I'll pull your ford like a dog shakes a rag..
Heck I'll repeat it again with my 98 and 01 just fur fun...
Then I'll hook up the Toyota 4runner that should be an even match..
Then we can try it in 2 wheel and I'll use my Charger R/T
If it's all HP then you don't stand a chance. she put up 416hp out of 440ci last time on the dyno..

Ho wait let me use my 08 CTD....

Remember in a pissing competition always check the wind direction first.
You would think a guy with a plane would keep an eye on that.

I see you got some on your leg...


----------



## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

I always lay down on my back when I enter pissing competitions.....


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

dont bother sno.

see the ages? Look closley at the posts they have already put up.
they probably live with their mommy and daddy.
those probably arent even both his trucks. Probably not his house. Maybe his daddys airplane.
if they are for some reason he keeps thinking they are new even they are going on five years old.
they are also from mass. I will leave it at that because you wouldnt understand but mass people are known in the northeast for beign a little "flighty"
did you see the thread on one tons?
i talked to him until i was blue in the face trying to keep him out of a ticket and have him check the regs..
he had no clue. He is still wet behind the ears.
now he is laying on his back pissing. guess he forgot about gravity.
your wasting your time.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

bribrius;610745 said:


> dont bother sno.
> now he is laying on his back pissing. guess he forgot about gravity.
> your wasting your time.


Your right on all accounts...
Maybe there his uncles trucks..lol 
He is just a want-a-be covered in pee......

I'm done hear see ya.latter


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## a.paul (Sep 30, 2008)

More fun than re-runs on television. You guys should sell tickets.


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## ducatirider944 (Feb 25, 2008)

Thanks for m entertaining evening. wow, you guys trying to catch up to B&B's post count? I feel like I got a good deal, way cheaper than going to the movies!


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

we did.
you guys didnt have a ticket?


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Gicon;610647 said:


> MFiggs, have these guys even test drove the New Fords? I know I could knock trees over with mine all day long. No tree is going to stop me.





Gicon;610688 said:


> It absolutely does. Every 4 years Ford introduces a new engine with more power and more tourque. You want to do a tug of war with my 04 and your 74 to prove it>?





Gicon;610718 said:


> I always lay down on my back when I enter pissing competitions.....


Jr is clearly a bozo.


----------



## a.paul (Sep 30, 2008)

bribrius;610862 said:


> we did.
> you guys didnt have a ticket?


No...sorry. I didn't see any signs or anything....


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Bri,

I told you we needed to spend more on advertising...


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## Farm Boss (Jan 20, 2007)

Gicon;610688 said:


> It absolutely does. Every 4 years Ford introduces a new engine with more power and more tourque. You want to do a tug of war with my 04 and your 74 to prove it>?


A new truck doesn't mean that it is FOR SURE going to have more power than a older model. I have a '75 Chev that Iam willing to bet has more power than your 4 yr old Ford. Can't possibly judge the truck by the yr, you have to know the specifics!!!!!:realmad:


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## ducatirider944 (Feb 25, 2008)

Farm Boss;610961 said:


> A new truck doesn't mean that it is FOR SURE going to have more power than a older model. I have a '75 Chev that Iam willing to bet has more power than your 4 yr old Ford. Can't possibly judge the truck by the yr, you have to know the specifics!!!!!:realmad:


You kids, quit scrapping about old vs. new gassers. From the factory new has way more power than old. Yep, you can take an old motor and beef it up, and it is relitively easy to do. I have an El Camino that pumps out 425hp and 385ft lb of toruque and it is just a 355. 1/4 mile it will run with the newer vettes, Not the one that thy just came out with though! I know how much you have to work on these beefed up motors too. If you guys are going to talk power wars, let's have someone step up to the plate with a DIESEL. Size for size, a diesel will out pull, out push a gasser any day. Don't take a knife to a gun fight. LMAO


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

ducatirider944;610975 said:


> You kids, quit scrapping about old vs. new gassers. From the factory new has way more power than old. Yep, you can take an old motor and beef it up, and it is relitively easy to do. I have an El Camino that pumps out 425hp and 385ft lb of toruque and it is just a 355. 1/4 mile it will run with the newer vettes, Not the one that thy just came out with though! I know how much you have to work on these beefed up motors too. If you guys are going to talk power wars, let's have someone step up to the plate with a DIESEL. Size for size, a diesel will out pull, out push a gasser any day. Don't take a knife to a gun fight. LMAO


Are you trying to fan the fire...lol

375 hp is 375 hp no matter how old the horses are.

That's The stock hp on a 440 , 375hp well that's what the print says , don't believe every thing you read. Mine has a lot more 416hp, that is what the sales sheet says 375hp and the only "beffing up " is an addition of an electronic ignition other wise all stock.

You have to spend to much and the reliability falls when you ask any engine to put out more hp than it has CI. so I'll keep my street car under 440hp lol

hp for hp.

I did step up with my 08 oil burner. (new hp,,,lol)
I agree the heavy engine with more hp will out push a gasser.

who has a log for the fire ??? throw it on throw it on....


----------



## a.paul (Sep 30, 2008)

I mentioned how much my business made just so you guys would know where I stand--like that I'm successful at something, even though I know nothing about plowing and rely on you guys.


And Snofarmer, like I said, I've got nothing but respect for you. Period.


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## a.paul (Sep 30, 2008)

SnoFarmer;611891 said:


> so you tried to pass of a bad tranny as a loose heat shield?
> and to a fellow member?
> 
> So why are you selling it?


A couple of you guys have tried to mention this without any details. I've asked for details....but haven't heard any details...

Anyone care to elaborate?

Or is this one of those urban legend type things?


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

a.paul;611901 said:


> I mentioned how much my business made just so you guys would know where I stand--like that I'm successful at something, even though I know nothing about plowing and rely on you guys.
> And Snofarmer, like I said, I've got nothing but respect for you. Period.


kewell, I just threw that # out there so show "G" that anyone can say that they have money.
Most folks who say that have very little.(IE... jets and a fleet of trucks...)


If you under stand business then half the battle is won.
It's always nice to have more than one source of income.
I plow because I enjoy being out in the storm and of course I love plowing snow.
If I can help I'll try to. 



a.paul;611903 said:


> A couple of you guys have tried to mention this without any details. I've asked for details....but haven't heard any details...
> Anyone care to elaborate?
> Or is this one of those urban legend type things?


Yea sneaky people are slippery. There are 3 members that know the real story I just heard it from one of them over the phone.

As to your question.
Didn't I post a link to the IRS earler? It will spell it out.http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html

but yes you would be an employee


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Does the business require the worker to follow their instructions on how work is to be performed? If yes, this indicates employee status. An independent contractor will generally decide how the project should be completed and use his own methodology. 

Does the business provide training to the worker? If you're hiring a person for a job they are not trained for and providing them with the training to carry it out, that person is probably an employee. There can be exceptions based on the facts and circumstances, but if you fail this test, you might lose no matter how many of the others you pass. 

Are the worker’s services a substantial or integral part of the business? This indicates employee status because it indicates the business maintains direction and control over the worker. 

Does the business require the worker to perform all services personally? Independent contractors may have their own employees or at least should have the option of hiring other contractors to perform their work. Agreements for personal services indicate employee status. 

Does the business hire, supervise and pay the worker’s assistants? If so, this is a strong indication of employee status. Let the independent contractor pay his or her own assistants. 

Does the business have an ongoing relationship with the worker? This one is a stretch since many businesses maintain lifelong relationships with contractors whose work they like. But the IRS views this as an indication of employee status. 

Does the business set the worker’s schedule and hours? Independent contractors generally set their own work schedules. If the contractor must work certain hours because of required interrelationships with your employees or to take advantage of down time for computer-related work, document these facts. 

Does the business require the worker full-time? This is an indication of employee status because the business controls their availability and prevents them from working on other clients. 

Does the business provide the workspace? Contractors who work off-site are more likely to be classified an independent contractor. 

Does the business determine the order or sequence in which work is completed? Indicates employee status. If specific schedules are required, document them in the contract with the reasoning for doing so. 

Does the business require oral or written reports? The IRS believes regular written or oral reports detailing the work completed indicates employee status. In reality, this is, and should be, expected from independent contractors as well. 

Does the business pay by the hour, week or month? This indicates employee status. See our comments at the end of this article on this issue. 

Does the business pay expenses? This is an indication that the business is directing the Independent contractor's business activities. Make sure the independent contractor pays the expenses and bills you for reimbursement. 

Does the business provide tools and equipment for the worker? Independent contractors would normally provide their own tools and equipment. 

Does the worker have a significant investment in their own facilities? If the contractor maintains his own office space, computer equipment, tools, etc., this is a good indication that they are an independent contractor. 

Does the worker have profits and losses independent of the business? This is an indication that the contractor is running his own bona fide business and is an independent contractor. 

Does the worker have multiple clients? Working with multiple clients generally indicates independent contractor status. 

Does the worker market their services to the general public? Employees do not generally market their services to the general public. 

Does the business have the right to discharge the worker at any time? This suggests employee status. An independent contractor would only be discharged for failure to meet contract specifications. 

Does the worker have the right to quit at any time? An independent contractor is under contract and cannot quit until the project is completed. 

The purpose of these factors is to attempt to determine whether the employer has the right to control the worker, how, when and where the work is performed, and the amount of investment the worker has in his own business. The higher degree of control the employer has over the worker, the more likely the IRS will classify the worker as an employee. As you can see, there is a high degree of subjectivity in these tests. Some consultants will tell you that you're in danger if your worker falls into the employee category on more than 7 to 9 of these guidelines. I can tell you from experience that you may be in trouble if you fail on only three or four! The test is highly subjective and an IRS agent may feel strongly that the requisite control is evidenced even if you pass most of the guidelines with flying colors.


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## a.paul (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks, SnoFarmer and BriBius. 

I will say this (and it's not to discredit what you said, BB, at all) but my business partner has been an accountant for a dozen years, and he's never had a problem with the IRS, as long as he can show why he felt X rule meant whatever he interpreted it as.


Generally, the IRS agents don't know or care about this stuff either. So if you can show why you thought it was this way not that, they'll go with you, as long as it's in the ballpark. YMMV, of course.


Still, thanks Bri, I had thought I'd be a sub, but now I see I'd be an employee, since I'd be using his suff and he'd be telling me what to do etc.


Thanks.


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

if you guys want to continue this discussion about "paying subs" then fine, let's do that...however, if you want to keep up the pi***** match then I'll just close the thread

WOW, five pages of nonsense was removed because some people feel the need to be insanely critical and "attack" each other - and that isn't meant for just one side (or group) that was involved in this 

so please, let's move on...thanks :waving:


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Sorry dad. 
...."Girls just want to have fun"- Cindy lopper..sp


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

np, son 

glad to help :waving:


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

Sorry Mike. A. Paul, did someone clearly answer your question or do you need furthur clarification?


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## ducatirider944 (Feb 25, 2008)

a.paul;611928 said:


> Thanks, SnoFarmer and BriBius.
> 
> I will say this (and it's not to discredit what you said, BB, at all) but my business partner has been an accountant for a dozen years, and he's never had a problem with the IRS, as long as he can show why he felt X rule meant whatever he interpreted it as.
> 
> ...


Since I was on last night and got to see the show, let me tell you, it was worth the $20 I paid bri. I know one crutal thing was missing that I posted to you last night, and I want to make sure that you see it if you didn't last night.

You have already figured out that you would be an employee by now I think. Do Not let the guy 1099 you. Make him pay for half of your social security tax.


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## a.paul (Sep 30, 2008)

ducatirider944;612213 said:


> Since I was on last night and got to see the show, let me tell you, it was worth the $20 I paid bri. I know one crutal thing was missing that I posted to you last night, and I want to make sure that you see it if you didn't last night.
> 
> You have already figured out that you would be an employee by now I think. Do Not let the guy 1099 you. Make him pay for half of your social security tax.


Yes, I saw that...I'm not sure if it got deleted or not, but I did see it, and I appreciate the advice, thanks.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

ducatirider944;612213 said:


> Since I was on last night and got to see the show, let me tell you, it was worth the $20 I paid bri..


hey bri? where is my $10 bucks...:waving:


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## Mid-Ohio Scaper (Aug 17, 2008)

$75 per hour then 1099 him. As easy as that!


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