# Cost to sub out skid steer



## FPallittaOL

I have a brand new cat skid steer with a bucket. I’ve thought about selling myself and the cat to do snow removal. I have a bucket right now and I could buy a box. I’m curious how much my rate to charge a contractor would be with myself, machine with bucket and separately with a push box would be.


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## White_Gold11

More info where are you at? Have you done before? Any skid experience?


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## FPallittaOL

White_Gold11 said:


> More info where are you at? Have you done before? Any skid experience?


I'm in the Toledo Ohio area. I do have experience with using for snow removal. I've operated equipment for 15 years. I've never used my equipment before. I've always worked for someone with their equipment. Generally we shut down over the colder months.


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## BUFF

FPallittaOL said:


> I have a brand new cat skid steer with a bucket. I've thought about selling myself and the cat to do snow removal. I have a bucket right now and I could buy a box. I'm curious how much my rate to charge a contractor would be with myself, machine with bucket and separately with a push box would be.


1* Since you've been running equipment and used a skid from snow removal coming up with productivity per hour should easy. You may want to include load and unload time.
2* Insurance cost, for the equipment, trailer, truck and Gen Liability (min of $2M coverage)
3* Operating cost for the equipment, trailer, and truck which includes finance payments, maintenance, repairs, tires, etc...
4* Salary

From here you'll be close to figuring out how much to charge


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## WIPensFan

If it were me I wouldn’t do it for less than $125/hr


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## John_DeereGreen

WIPensFan said:


> If it were me I wouldn't do it for less than $125/hr


For a skid steer to sub to other contractors??


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## WIPensFan

John_DeereGreen said:


> For a skid steer to sub to other contractors??


Yep. Not worth it otherwise.


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## WIPensFan

John_DeereGreen said:


> For a skid steer to sub to other contractors??


What would you charge??


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## FPallittaOL

I was initially thinking 125 to start myself. We don’t get snow that much so I’d imagine a long day/night being 6 hrs. Or do you charge for the machine to stay on site and then hourly charge for myself driving it.


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## John_DeereGreen

WIPensFan said:


> What would you charge??


Locally, skids are worth 75 an hour for sub work, tops. They bill out between 100 and 110 an hour.


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## FPallittaOL

John_DeereGreen said:


> Locally, skids are worth 75 an hour for sub work, tops. They bill out between 100 and 110 an hour.


With a push box? Does that matter?. I have two machines no boxes so I'd go buy one if I could find a solid company to work with.


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## WIPensFan

FPallittaOL said:


> With a push box? Does that matter?. I have two machines no boxes so I'd go buy one if I could find a solid company to work with.


I do think you need a 10' box or plow to get the most out of it.
I never was a sub or used subs. I would never operate like that anyway. Think about all you are paying for: Truck and trailer to haul to site. Unless it's left onsite which opens you up to other issues such as theft and damage and wear. Insurance for all that plus the cost of the machine and fuel and wear items like blades and tires. Maintenance of all of the above. Plus paying yourself. Being out in the cold and snow and salt is hard on machines. You gotta make enough to cover all your costs and still make profit.


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## WIPensFan

John_DeereGreen said:


> Locally, skids are worth 75 an hour for sub work, tops. They bill out between 100 and 110 an hour.


Does that include the man inside?


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## John_DeereGreen

I provide boxes for my subs because I want to have control over what they’re pushing. 

Yes includes operator. I have 6 skid subs and 4 of the 6 are at 65/hour, one is at 75/hour, one is at 80/hour.


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## m_ice

John_DeereGreen said:


> I provide boxes for my subs because I want to have control over what they're pushing.
> 
> Yes includes operator. I have 6 skid subs and 4 of the 6 are at 65/hour, one is at 75/hour, one is at 80/hour.


Do your subs call you Gru?
Those prices are good for you but sad for them.


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## WIPensFan

m_ice said:


> Do your subs call you Gru?
> Those prices are good for you but sad for them.


That's exactly what I'm thinking.


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## WIPensFan

John_DeereGreen said:


> I provide boxes for my subs because I want to have control over what they're pushing.
> 
> Yes includes operator. I have 6 skid subs and 4 of the 6 are at 65/hour, one is at 75/hour, one is at 80/hour.


I guess $80/hr is getting there, but still pretty cheap.


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## JMHConstruction

Yikes Jarrett! What do trucks get out there?


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## Mark Oomkes

WIPensFan said:


> If it were me I wouldn't do it for less than $125/hr


And you wouldn't be working around here. For just a little more I can get a 3 yd loader and operator. And I do.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> And you wouldn't be working around here. For just a little more I can get a 3 yd loader and operator. And I do.


A Union Operator???


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## BUFF

Defcon 5 said:


> A Union Operator???


And he gets paid 5 Bananananananannaaaaaaaa's an hour


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> A Union Operator???


No, I prefer productive employees.


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## John_DeereGreen

JMHConstruction said:


> Yikes Jarrett! What do trucks get out there?


They get sponsorships from the homeless kids in Africa.

Edit in seriousness a 3/4 or 1 ton with v plow is 50-60 an hour.

I know multiple companies in the northeast Ohio market that pay 50-60 for skids including box or plow.

125 an hour is like Mark said, wheel loader rates here.


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## WIPensFan

There are guys around here getting $60-65/hr cash to show up and plow in someone else’s truck.


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## WIPensFan

Mark Oomkes said:


> And you wouldn't be working around here. For just a little more I can get a 3 yd loader and operator. And I do.


That's fine, like I said, I would never be a sub. If I have a skid steer i'll go find my own accounts and make all the money instead of giving someone else half.


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## John_DeereGreen

WIPensFan said:


> There are guys around here getting $60-65/hr cash to show up and plow in someone else's truck.


So what's a truck bid out at hourly when you're pricing work? How about a skid steer?


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## WIPensFan

John_DeereGreen said:


> So what's a truck bid out at hourly when you're pricing work? How about a skid steer?


Guy paying that is making well over $300/hr for that truck. I was making $225/hr with my skid. If I had over 3.9" or 5.9" it went up over$400/hr. My routes when I had multiple trucks and or skid steers going out were making $225/hr per route. Depending on snow depth it took 5-7hrs per route.


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## John_DeereGreen

WIPensFan said:


> Guy paying that is making well over $300/hr for that truck. I was making $225/hr with my skid. If I had over 3.9" or 5.9" it went up over$400/hr. My routes when I had multiple trucks and or skid steers going out were making $225/hr per route. Depending on snow depth it took 5-7hrs per route.


Average yearly snowfall amount? Those are very impressive numbers. I'm not sure how a market could sustain them, but hey if you can get them by all means do so.


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## WIPensFan

John_DeereGreen said:


> Average yearly snowfall amount? Those are very impressive numbers. I'm not sure how a market could sustain them, but hey if you can get them by all means do so.


50"


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## Mark Oomkes

WIPensFan said:


> 50"


Where in southern cheeseland is 50" average?



WIPensFan said:


> Guy paying that is making well over $300/hr for that truck. I was making $225/hr with my skid. If I had over 3.9" or 5.9" it went up over$400/hr. My routes when I had multiple trucks and or skid steers going out were making $225/hr per route. Depending on snow depth it took 5-7hrs per route.


Wow!!!!!


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## leigh

I may have been dethroned as the highest cost plow company in the universe, time to re-cipher my #'s.I'm in Sw Connecticut,the exit ramp panhandlers make 300$ a day.


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## Defcon 5

Why in this business are so many guys against making money...


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Why in this business are so many guys against making money...


Depends on whether you're the contract holder or a sub or a sub of a sub or a sub of a sub of a sub...


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Depends on whether you're the contract holder or a sub or a sub of a sub or a sub of a sub of a sub...


K


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> K


I confused you, didn't I?


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> I confused you, didn't I?


Hardly....The day you "confuse" me is the day I give up


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Hardly....The day you "confuse" me is the day I give up


If you say so...


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## Boomer123

Mark Oomkes said:


> Depends on whether you're the contract holder or a sub or a sub of a sub or a sub of a sub of a sub...


 I helped out a friend a few years back plowing at a General Motors plant. During a break I asked who was the contract with. That contract was subbed out four times. I said that's why you can't get subs to show up for such a low pay everyone was taking a slice of the pie and passing the contract.


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## jomama45

Mark Oomkes said:


> Where in southern cheeseland is 50" average?


He's in the Madison area I believe.


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## Philbilly2

John_DeereGreen said:


> Edit in seriousness a 3/4 or 1 ton with v plow is 50-60 an hour.


I'm just a bit curious... after you cover your insurance, fuel, wear and tear, you know... all of your costs...

How much does one have to pay each time they go out to plow snow???


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## John_DeereGreen

Philbilly2 said:


> I'm just a bit curious... after you cover your insurance, fuel, wear and tear, you know... all of your costs...
> 
> How much does one have to pay each time they go out to plow snow???


That's why I only run 3 trucks of my own and they do much more salting than plowing :dancing:


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## WIPensFan

Mark Oomkes said:


> Where in southern cheeseland is 50" average?
> 
> Wow!!!!!


Madison, WI


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## WIPensFan

So getting back to OP...What machine did you buy and what were you expecting to make? Are you using the skid in summer months for other work. Tell us more.


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## plow4beer

WIPensFan said:


> Guy paying that is making well over $300/hr for that truck. I was making $225/hr with my skid. If I had over 3.9" or 5.9" it went up over$400/hr. My routes when I had multiple trucks and or skid steers going out were making $225/hr per route. Depending on snow depth it took 5-7hrs per route.


No wonder your already retired

you'd never land snow work here at those "hourly rates"...not to say we don't pull numbers like that on some of our snow work...but its because of the price structure and efficiencies we've established...not because we are doing the job for $xxx/hr


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## leigh

plow4beer said:


> No wonder your already retired
> 
> you'd never land snow work here at those "hourly rates"...not to say we don't pull numbers like that on some of our snow work...but its because of the price structure and efficiencies we've established...not because we are doing the job for $xxx/hr


 I may be wrong but I don't think he "bills out" at those prices.I would think he is pricing jobs based on his numbers and by being clever and skilled is able to maximize his income per machine/truck. Could be way off but I can't see why that info would be shared with client. I don't ask my Dr. what he charges per hour, I just care about the final cost.


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## plow4beer

leigh said:


> I may be wrong but I don't think he "bills out" at those prices.I would think he is pricing jobs based on his numbers and by being clever and skilled is able to maximize his income per machine/truck. Could be way off but I can't see why that info would be shared with client. I don't ask my Dr. what he charges per hour, I just care about the final cost.


Eggzactly


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## Mark Oomkes

plow4beer said:


> No wonder your already retired
> 
> you'd never land snow work here at those "hourly rates"...not to say we don't pull numbers like that on some of our snow work...but its because of the price structure and efficiencies we've established...not because we are doing the job for $xxx/hr


As someone else said...those numbers are worth getting oot of bed for...not retiring.


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## plow4beer

Mark Oomkes said:


> As someone else said...those numbers are worth getting oot of bed for...not retiring.


Trew dat


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## Mark Oomkes

plow4beer said:


> Trew dat


Those numbers would pay for a lot of beer...even my "foo-foo" beer.


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## WIPensFan

I never said I charged by the hr. I’m surprised you guys are blown away by my numbers. Why don’t you guys post up what your numbers are? Nobody else profits from snow removal? You all just break even?


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## WIPensFan

BTW...We were never “landing snow work” We were landing landscape work that brought with it snow work. Everything was done at a very high quality and attention to detail. I’m sure many on here and around the country run their businesses similarly. Im proud of how I operated.


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## Mark Oomkes

WIPensFan said:


> I never said I charged by the hr. I'm surprised you guys are blown away by my numbers. Why don't you guys post up what your numbers are? Nobody else profits from snow removal? You all just break even?


I don't recall anyone stating you plowed by the hour.


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## plow4beer

WIPensFan said:


> I never said I charged by the hr. I'm surprised you guys are blown away by my numbers. Why don't you guys post up what your numbers are? Nobody else profits from snow removal? You all just break even?


I wasn't "blown away" by your numbers


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## Philbilly2

WIPensFan said:


> I never said I charged by the hr. I'm surprised you guys are blown away by my numbers. Why don't you guys post up what your numbers are? Nobody else profits from snow removal? You all just break even?


You are the only one on this thread talking about what you net per hour on a per push site. That is not the topic of the thread. That is why you are getting push back. Better question is have you ever charged $400 or whatever you posted you were making an hour on a per hour rate with a skid loader? I am going to guess not.



FPallittaOL said:


> I'm curious how much my rate to charge a contractor would be with myself, machine with bucket and separately with a push box would be.


The OP asked about a rate to charge as a sub. Rate implies per hour charge. That is what everyone else is talking about.


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## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't recall anyone stating you plowed by the hour.


I could do it cheaper...


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## iceyman

150$ an hour in the dirty jerz


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## Mark Oomkes

WIPensFan said:


> Why don't you guys post up what your numbers are?


Back before snow and ice management became a commodity, my truck rates were figured at $125\hour with an operator. On "normal" snowfalls (under 6") we regularly averaged $175\hour. Day in and day out. And we had all the work we wanted, so I was probably too low, but I know we were in the middle of the pack.

Then it became a commodity. And one company hired a sales rep that worked 100% commission. And he knew nothing about pricing green or snow work. He was 30-50% less on pricing regularly. The next year the red army continued this trend. Then the recession hit the rest of the country and Michigan's economy went even further into recession than it had been the previous 6-7 years. And prices continued to drop. It was at this time that being profitable was difficult to impossible and the fun definitely left the industry.

Pricing didn't go up much until '14-'15, after the record winter of '13-'14. Pricing was almost back to pre-recession levels, then '15-'16 was a light year and idiots started lowering prices again.

I'd love to be basing my prices on what they should be, but the market won't bear them. Add in competitors that don't follow specs and what are you to do?


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## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> what are you to do?


New job time...


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## WIPensFan

John_DeereGreen said:


> So what's a truck bid out at hourly when you're pricing work? How about a skid steer?





Philbilly2 said:


> You are the only one on this thread talking about what you net per hour on a per push site. That is not the topic of the thread. That is why you are getting push back. Better question is have you ever charged $400 or whatever you posted you were making an hour on a per hour rate with a skid loader? I am going to guess not.
> 
> JDG asked me.
> 
> The OP asked about a rate to charge as a sub. Rate implies per hour charge. That is what everyone else is talking about.


I told OP I wouldn't do it for less than $125/hr.

So what's your problem??


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## Philbilly2

WIPensFan said:


> I told OP I wouldn't do it for less than $125/hr.
> 
> So what's your problem??


Not sure if I have a problem here...  You might? I don't.

I understand that you were explaining to Jarrett how you get to your evaluation. You were asking why people are blown away by your numbers... I was explaining to you why they are confused. You all are talking about two different things.


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## WIPensFan

Philbilly2 said:


> Not sure if I have a problem here...  You might? I don't.
> 
> I understand that you were explaining to Jarrett how you get to your evaluation. You were asking why people are blown away by your numbers... I was explaining to you why they are confused. You all are talking about two different things.


I don't think you did understand that...based on the tone of your post. What have you offered up for what the OP should charge??


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## Philbilly2

WIPensFan said:


> I don't think you did understand that...based on the tone of your post. What have you offered up for what the OP should charge??


How do you know my tone? You need me to put a smiley face or something so your feelings don't get hurt?

What the OP should charge is not a number that I can provide. I do not know what he needs to clear to cover his operation overhead. Anyone that gives him a number without knowing what his operation costs are is not helping him. Every area and business model is different so numbers do not matter. It is how you arrive at your own number that maters.


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## leigh

Back to OP's ? How much to charge to sub out your skid with a pusher.It's all regional,all these discussions always get into the same old argument.I would pay you 125$ an hour,or we would agree on a $ amount on each lot so you can profit from your experience and productivity.As long as the quality of work is maintained. Local knowledge is key.


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## Mike_PS

ok guys, let's stay on point, no need to get personal or attack anyone...all are welcome to post their opinions


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## WIPensFan

Michael J. Donovan said:


> ok guys, let's stay on point, no need to get personal or attack anyone...all are welcome to post their opinions


It doesn't appear to be the case.


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## WIPensFan

Philbilly2 said:


> How do you know my tone? You need me to put a smiley face or something so your feelings don't get hurt?
> 
> What the OP should charge is not a number that I can provide. I do not know what he needs to clear to cover his operation overhead. Anyone that gives him a number without knowing what his operation costs are is not helping him. Every area and business model is different so numbers do not matter. It is how you arrive at your own number that maters.


Then don't comment, simple as that!


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## WIPensFan

leigh said:


> Back to OP's ? How much to charge to sub out your skid with a pusher.It's all regional,all these discussions always get into the same old argument.I would pay you 125$ an hour,or we would agree on a $ amount on each lot so you can profit from your experience and productivity.As long as the quality of work is maintained. Local knowledge is key.


If nobody can know what posters should do, why even have this site?


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## Philbilly2

WIPensFan said:


> Then don't comment, simple as that!


So your bad advise is better than no advise at all??? Thumbs Up


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## leigh

WIPensFan said:


> If nobody can know what posters should do, why even have this site?


 Not sure I understand your point,but then I'm thick:hammerhead: !With many price questions all the input has some merit, but I think the most valuable comes from someone in the area where they're located.Even equipment choices are fine tuned to the local conditions at times. Personally I have no issues what you and others posted,horses for courses!


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## WIPensFan

Philbilly2 said:


> So your bad advise is better than no advise at all??? Thumbs Up


Where's my bad advice??


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## Philbilly2

leigh said:


> It's all regional,all these discussions always get into the same old argument.


I hopes to pull this train back on track...

I do understand that you are saying that you would pay him $125/hr. I get that part.

Now, the reason they all go down the same old argument track.

What if the OP runs his numbers and needs $135/hr to cover his overhead? Should he just take the going rate as that is what others have recommended he charge?


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## WIPensFan

Philbilly2 said:


> I hopes to pull this train back on track...
> 
> I do understand that you are saying that you would pay him $125/hr. I get that part.
> 
> Now, the reason they all go down the same old argument track.
> 
> What if the OP runs his numbers and needs $135/hr to cover his overhead? Should he just take the going rate as that is what others have recommended he charge?


Yes, I understand what you are saying. He does need to know what he needs to make. I suggested not less than $125/hr as my advice. He can take it as something to consider. He said he was thinking that amount. Cool, start from there. If all the contractors balk at that amount he needs to reconsider if he should go lower, or if it's even worth doing. Maybe, as I suggested he could find some accounts of his own.


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## kimber750

Only time we charge hourly is for anything beyond the scope of work stated in the contract. For us a skiddy is $150 an hour. Normally this is snow haul out work. The rest of the time the equipment cost is figured in to our seasonal contracts, so what a piece of equipment "makes" an hour can change wildly depends on the how much/frequent snow fall is that for that season.


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## leigh

Philbilly2 said:


> I hopes to pull this train back on track...
> 
> I do understand that you are saying that you would pay him $125/hr. I get that part.
> 
> Now, the reason they all go down the same old argument track.
> 
> What if the OP runs his numbers and needs $135/hr to cover his overhead? Should he just take the going rate as that is what others have recommended he charge?


 Yes or no! Comes down to personal choice. Is it worth it to work for less and maybe pay yourself less for your time? Some do and others say no way. Maybe he wants to get some experience and works to cover overhead and a 6 pack at end of day. Honestly, the published hourly costs to own/operate a ss is 28$ an hour depending on size(that # was couple years ago when I researched) so if someone wants to push for 50$ an hour so be it. High % of overhead stays the same whether the equipment sits anyway so might figure its worth it to bring in some winter $. Push for 10 hrs,pay 60$ for fuel and you have 600-800$ or whatever to go into account.What would you be doing during that time? Sitting on couch or missing out on more lucrative work,who knows! At my age I don't even want to go out for the sw ct big bucks lol


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## FredG

Hell I will go out for $125.00 per hr with my big loader under the right conditions. Meaning am I going to get 10 hours or 2 hours. If You got two hrs work I want probably at least $200.00 per hr for my region. We all don't spend the same on operating cost for numerous reasons.


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## leigh

FredG said:


> Hell I will go out for $125.00 per hr with my big loader under the right conditions. Meaning am I going to get 10 hours or 2 hours. If You got two hrs work I want probably at least $200.00 per hr for my region. We all don't spend the same on operating cost for numerous reasons.


 And if your overhead is higher,tough luck. Imagine telling client I need x amount more because I'm paying for my new shop ,new trucks etc.Meanwhile joe blow stores his equipment in the barn and loves working on older trucks/equipment and has low overhead. Fortunatly there seems to be work for all those willing to work.


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## Philbilly2

leigh said:


> Honestly, the published hourly costs to own/operate a ss is 28$ an hour depending on size(that # was couple years ago when I researched) so if someone wants to push for 50$ an hour so be it.


Is that just fuel cost or what? Is that with a payment or not? Is that with insurance? Is that including wear and tear?



leigh said:


> And if your overhead is higher,tough luck. Imagine telling client I need x amount more because I'm paying for my new shop ,new trucks etc.Meanwhile joe blow stores his equipment in the barn and loves working on older trucks/equipment and has low overhead. Fortunatly there seems to be work for all those willing to work.


If you tell your clients that the reason that you are charging more is to pay for your shop and trucks you need to work on your sales techniques... :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## jomama45

Philbilly2 said:


> Is that just fuel cost or what? Is that with a payment or not? Is that with insurance? Is that including wear and tear?


It's been years since I took the time (with help from my accountant) to figure this out for the skid I run as a sub. It was slightly less than $28 per hour from what I recall, but not much. Here's some of what I recall:

Machine depreciation ~$6-15 per machine hour.
(Rough guess I'm probably at about $8 per hour now. This is the biggest variable, by far, IMO. THe last S250 I had was purchased with ~4500 hours, traded it in for a $2000 loss 3 years later with 750 hours = $2.67 per hour. Buying the latest & greatest machine every 2-3 years without actually using it could be a $20 per hour hit? If'n you're someone like Fred G, you can probably get this column into the black vs. red?)

Fuel ~ $7-8 per hour.
(My machine runs right at 2 gallons per hour at WOT. Pulling it back a little when you don't need full speed saves a substantial amount of fuel. Reason my fuel rate might seem high is I would include the time it takes to refuel and any equipment you buy to refuel.)

Maintenance & repairs ~ $2-3 per hour
(I've been lucky and have done hardly any repairs to mine through the years, mostly oil, starter, filters, etc...)

Tires Right at $1 per hour with my severe duty, I think the dedicated snows I run now are at least as good.

Insurance cost: I have no idea anymore, can't remember what my snow removal rider added to my GL was anymore, I know it wasn't more than a few hundreds bucks a year.

Attachment cost: Again, no idea, varies greatly by application, and probably a lot more than I think.

Payment/interest: I've never taken anything other than zero or 1.9% percent interest offers from Bobcat. Maybe things have changed.


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## WIPensFan

jomama45 said:


> It's been years since I took the time (with help from my accountant) to figure this out for the skid I run as a sub. It was slightly less than $28 per hour from what I recall, but not much. Here's some of what I recall:
> 
> Machine depreciation ~$6-15 per machine hour.
> (Rough guess I'm probably at about $8 per hour now. This is the biggest variable, by far, IMO. THe last S250 I had was purchased with ~4500 hours, traded it in for a $2000 loss 3 years later with 750 hours = $2.67 per hour. Buying the latest & greatest machine every 2-3 years without actually using it could be a $20 per hour hit? If'n you're someone like Fred G, you can probably get this column into the black vs. red?)
> 
> Fuel ~ $7-8 per hour.
> (My machine runs right at 2 gallons per hour at WOT. Pulling it back a little when you don't need full speed saves a substantial amount of fuel. Reason my fuel rate might seem high is I would include the time it takes to refuel and any equipment you buy to refuel.)
> 
> Maintenance & repairs ~ $2-3 per hour
> (I've been lucky and have done hardly any repairs to mine through the years, mostly oil, starter, filters, etc...)
> 
> Tires Right at $1 per hour with my severe duty, I think the dedicated snows I run now are at least as good.
> 
> Insurance cost: I have no idea anymore, can't remember what my snow removal rider added to my GL was anymore, I know it wasn't more than a few hundreds bucks a year.
> 
> Attachment cost: Again, no idea, varies greatly by application, and probably a lot more than I think.
> 
> Payment/interest: I've never taken anything other than zero or 1.9% percent interest offers from Bobcat. Maybe things have changed.


What are you making as a sub? Charging per hr or per account?


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## leigh

Philbilly2 said:


> If you tell your clients that the reason that you are charging more is to pay for your shop and trucks you need to work on your sales techniques... :laugh::laugh::laugh:


 I remember one client I had for my construction side of business.I think they questioned my hourly rate for extras on a project, he said he doesn't even make that much.I told him to go ask for a raise and is it a crime for me to make more than him.I said after 30 years in business I get 6 weeks vacation and he was paying for it and I just smiled at him. My wife can't figure out how I get away with saying things like this lol


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## 1olddogtwo

I just don't get this....don't work hourly thing.

No matter how you slice it, you at producting rev at a hourly rate.

I get the bid the job, do it at a set price....still you need to divde hours into rev.

How about those KC Chiefs!


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## jomama45

WIPensFan said:


> What are you making as a sub? Charging per hr or per account?


Charging per hour. What I charge is confidential between my brother and myself. I'm professional enough that I would never divulge those kind of details to a stranger, much less on the internet.

I will say that I make far less than you claim to have made as a primary, as it should be. I'm sure I could re-locate to your area and subcontract for a lot more money, but I'd rather make less and stay where I'm at........

To add, the main reason I've stuck with plowing in the winter (I hate it and don't need to do it financially) is because we own a 6 family apartment building that's on my current route. Not only would I have to pay for snow removal service there, it's a complete PITA to do with a truck, so I'd still be going out in the snow to do something there anyways. If I can figure that part of the puzzle out, I will quit plowing sooner than later.


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## WIPensFan

jomama45 said:


> Charging per hour. What I charge is confidential between my brother and myself. I'm professional enough that I would never divulge those kind of details to a stranger, much less on the internet.
> 
> I will say that I make far less than you claim to have made as a primary, as it should be. I'm sure I could re-locate to your area and subcontract for a lot more money, but I'd rather make less and stay where I'm at........
> 
> To add, the main reason I've stuck with plowing in the winter (I hate it and don't need to do it financially) is because we own a 6 family apartment building that's on my current route. Not only would I have to pay for snow removal service there, it's a complete PITA to do with a truck, so I'd still be going out in the snow to do something there anyways. If I can figure that part of the puzzle out, I will quit plowing sooner than later.


That's fine. I have no issue with that.


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## FredG

jomama45 said:


> It's been years since I took the time (with help from my accountant) to figure this out for the skid I run as a sub. It was slightly less than $28 per hour from what I recall, but not much. Here's some of what I recall:
> 
> Machine depreciation ~$6-15 per machine hour.
> (Rough guess I'm probably at about $8 per hour now. This is the biggest variable, by far, IMO. THe last S250 I had was purchased with ~4500 hours, traded it in for a $2000 loss 3 years later with 750 hours = $2.67 per hour. Buying the latest & greatest machine every 2-3 years without actually using it could be a $20 per hour hit? If'n you're someone like Fred G, you can probably get this column into the black vs. red?)
> 
> Fuel ~ $7-8 per hour.
> (My machine runs right at 2 gallons per hour at WOT. Pulling it back a little when you don't need full speed saves a substantial amount of fuel. Reason my fuel rate might seem high is I would include the time it takes to refuel and any equipment you buy to refuel.)
> 
> Maintenance & repairs ~ $2-3 per hour
> (I've been lucky and have done hardly any repairs to mine through the years, mostly oil, starter, filters, etc...)
> 
> Tires Right at $1 per hour with my severe duty, I think the dedicated snows I run now are at least as good.
> 
> Insurance cost: I have no idea anymore, can't remember what my snow removal rider added to my GL was anymore, I know it wasn't more than a few hundreds bucks a year.
> 
> Attachment cost: Again, no idea, varies greatly by application, and probably a lot more than I think.
> 
> Payment/interest: I've never taken anything other than zero or 1.9% percent interest offers from Bobcat. Maybe things have changed.


 Fred is a skinflint this is what keeps me out of the red. My equipment is payed for. I don't need the shiniest new Kubota excavator or a fluffed up Peterbuilt My three internationals haul just fine. I'm not feared of throwing $3k at something that needs reconditioning.

I don't like a lot of payments, I don't want to be under the gun when times are tough and I like the cash more than new equipment. Seen a lot of guys fail that can't manage there cash or debt. I still charge what the market can stand just like the guys with new equipment.

Who knows I go by FOG ways right, wrong or indifferent. I'm no millionaire but living the dream as far as I'm concerned. Ghetto fabulous. :laugh:


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## leigh

1olddogtwo said:


> I just don't get this....don't work hourly thing.
> 
> No matter how you slice it, you at producting rev at a hourly rate.
> 
> I get the bid the job, do it at a set price....still you need to divde hours into rev.
> 
> How about those KC Chiefs!


 As a New Englander it was an honor to send the squaws home for the offseason! I think for many they don't have a choice but to get paid by the hour as a subs, its the nature of the business. I don't work by the hour ,but that's my choice as the top guy in the food chain.I pay my subs sort of a hybrid, sort of hourly,but also based on the storm.The other day we had an easy push,4 hrs,I bought breakfast and paid every one for 8 hrs.I know of others in my area that do things like this,a good sub is priceless ! Especially for the smaller more detailed/challenging type of lots. They all have use of shop to work on vehicles,they can store their plows inside year round.Keep everyone happy,and no I'm not hiring !


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