# Crap



## AndyTblc

Did anyone ever plow with a tractor with the blade all the way to the right and catch ice and swing your tractor all the way to the left into a garage door, Well it happened to me. This is my first incident that didn't occur at my house.


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## carcrz

Hope you had insurance. I don't even attempt to get close w/ my truck's plow for that very reason. I just use a shovel after about 6" from the door.


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## AndyTblc

I don't have insurance, I've never needed it. This was my first time something ever happened like this. But my neighbor is a builder so I'll ask him what can be done. He'll know how to fix it. I'm not real worried, I have already notified this person telling her to get it fixed and tell me how much it will cost. I've got money that I set aside each year in case something happens like this. I'm not worried. And I was about 1 foot away and there is so many divots in that ice that it just dug in and whipped the tractor around. Does anybody know how to fix this so I can do it my self?


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## Post Mowing

Just pop in a new bottom panel in the door.


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## bowtie_guy

I'd imagine they will just replace the lower panel. Problem solved. Not too sure what a panel with labour would go for though.


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## Sydenstricker Landscaping

You can get those replacement panels fairly cheap. I am not sure on the cost of having a garage door co. come and do it.


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## AndyTblc

By panel do you mean just the aluminum or the whole shebang panel. Is there anyway I could pound out the dent and bend the aluminum up as far as I can and caulk it so it isn't noticeable?


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## Mick

wizzkid316;380930 said:


> I don't have insurance, I've never needed it. This was my first time something ever happened like this. But my neighbor is a builder so I'll ask him what can be done. He'll know how to fix it. I'm not real worried, I have already notified this person telling her to get it fixed and tell me how much it will cost. I've got money that I set aside each year in case something happens like this. I'm not worried. And I was about 1 foot away and there is so many divots in that ice that it just dug in and whipped the tractor around. Does anybody know how to fix this so I can do it my self?


As for fixing this, you can just replace that section. You could do it yourself.

As you just found out, things we don't expect do happen. It doesn't sound like you're going to take this as a wake up call to get liability insurance, but maybe it'll serve to get someone else to think about it. Next time, it could be a whole lot worse than a garage door panel - like major property damage, personal injury or death.

Ok, off my soapbox.


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## AndyTblc

That insurance will cost me more then what I make. Besides I think I'm still under my parents insurance and stuff like that, and I was asking a few other people questions about that persons homeowners insurance and paying the deductible and the insurance pays the rest. Does anyone know how much this door panel will cost?


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## Sydenstricker Landscaping

wizzkid316;380941 said:


> By panel do you mean just the aluminum or the whole shebang panel. Is there anyway I could pound out the dent and bend the aluminum up as far as I can and caulk it so it isn't noticeable?


There really is no way to repair these panels as far as I know, but I am no garage door specialist. The panel is filled with an insulation, either the loose fiber or the styrofoam board. Your best bet, IMO, is just to replace the panel. Check out your local diy stores ( Home Depot, Lowe's) they may carry what you need. Those panels are very light, and fairly inexpensive. It may cost like 150 bucks or more, as I have never priced a garage door panel. It is easy, and you can do it yourself


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## AndyTblc

Thanks, I'll check into this Monday after school if I don't see my neighbor.


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## MSS Mow

wizzkid316;380944 said:


> That insurance will cost me more then what I make. Besides I think I'm still under my parents insurance and stuff like that, and I was asking a few other people questions about that persons homeowners insurance and paying the deductible and the insurance pays the rest. Does anyone know how much this door panel will cost?


Mick had a good point. You really should think about getting some liability insurance. Believe me, your commercial plowing is not going to be covered under your parents insurance. As for allowing the homeowner's insurance to pay for it, that would be deceptive at best, more likely illegal (ie: INSURANCE FRAUD).

Mick, thanks for letting me borrow your soap box. I'll send it back to ya.


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## qualitylandscap

man that sucks, dang ice. I work for my sister b/f plowing snow and we were at large industrial building and he back up into a car and pushed it back five feet, he didn't realize it till i called him on the cb. So we hooked a chain up to it and pulled it back to where is was threw some snow on the car and the guy still doesn't know anything happened. I know it was wrong for us to do that, but we were behind and didn't want to mess around with cops, plus it was our largest Strom of the year ( 18ins of the ground) and it was still snowing and visibility was pretty bad.


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## AndyTblc

Yah, but I"m not commercial, I do 15 driveways with my john deere lawn and garden tractor. This isn't commercial, and I did go and talk to her today and she said that she noticed it, and she doesn't think it is necessary to replace it. She said we'll try and bend it back then touch it up. So I'll work it out in the spring. She isn't worried about it. She said that it was part her fault for letting the ice be there, and I told her that she can pay me to put chloride down, and she said she didn't need to. I got a truck for lawn mowing, and I'm going to be looking into a plow for it, and that is what I'll have insurance on.


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## REAPER

qualitylandscap;380998 said:


> man that sucks, dang ice. I work for my sister b/f plowing snow and we were at large industrial building and he back up into a car and pushed it back five feet, he didn't realize it till i called him on the cb. So we hooked a chain up to it and pulled it back to where is was threw some snow on the car and the guy still doesn't know anything happened. I know it was wrong for us to do that, but we were behind and didn't want to mess around with cops, plus it was our largest Strom of the year ( 18ins of the ground) and it was still snowing and visibility was pretty bad.


Dude, that is just plain wrong right there.

I can't believe you admited that and posted it.

I could make a long post about it but I wont.


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## Banksy

qualitylandscap;380998 said:


> man that sucks, dang ice. I work for my sister b/f plowing snow and we were at large industrial building and he back up into a car and pushed it back five feet, he didn't realize it till i called him on the cb. So we hooked a chain up to it and pulled it back to where is was threw some snow on the car and the guy still doesn't know anything happened. I know it was wrong for us to do that, but we were behind and didn't want to mess around with cops, plus it was our largest Strom of the year ( 18ins of the ground) and it was still snowing and visibility was pretty bad.


Wow, that was very dishonest of you guys. I can't believe you posted that either. Doesn't sound like a quality job done by "Quality Landscape".

Wizzkid, how old are you? You said you were still in school. I doubt you can even get commercial ins for plowing if you are under 18 and even then it would cost a heck of a lot. What kind of tractor were you using? I don't think that will cost much to repair, try to get your neighbor to help YOU fix it. It's good to see that you were straight up with your customer.


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## qualitylandscap

REAPER;381004 said:


> Dude, that is just plain wrong right there.
> 
> I can't believe you admited that and posted it.
> 
> I could make a long post about it but I wont.


As I posted above it was wrong of us to leave it the way we did.


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## qualitylandscap

Banksy;381012 said:


> Wow, that was very dishonest of you guys. I can't believe you posted that either. Doesn't sound like a quality job done by "Quality Landscape".
> 
> Wizzkid, how old are you? You said you were still in school. I doubt you can even get commercial ins for plowing if you are under 18 and even then it would cost a heck of a lot. What kind of tractor were you using? I don't think that will cost much to repair, try to get your neighbor to help YOU fix it. It's good to see that you were straight up with your customer.


It wasn't my contract, it was his. I was coming to pick up the skid-loader to take it to the next stop when it happened. If it was my contract, I would of taken care of it the right way. But it's his job, his name on the line and not mine.


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## AndyTblc

Wizzkid said:


> I'm 18 years old, but I do all my plowing around my neighborhood and some people on the other street, I have a John Deere 214. I have a good set-up. Heater, flashers, lights. It's fun, I wouldn't get commercial insurance right away unless I had upteen customers. And my neighbor is a lady and lady's aren't very...... very.... well you know what I mean. And as soon as I did that I finished up. Went home. I added up how much I owed she owed me so I could tell her and we could discuss it, and I went and put a letter in her mailbox. Then as soon as I seen her car home I went right up there and talked to her. I wouldn't just do something and try and cover it up. I try and build good customer relationships so they keep wanting me back every year.


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## Banksy

qualitylandscap;381019 said:


> It wasn't my contract, it was his. I was coming to pick up the skid-loader to take it to the next stop when it happened. If it was my contract, I would of taken care of it the right way. But it's his job, his name on the line and not mine.


Ok, it was his account. Though what happened constitutes hit and run and you could be charged with aiding and abetting for helping him cover it up. Trust me, I know. Not trying to be a wise guy with you and I don't want to lecture, but that sucks for the person who's car it was.

Sounds good Wizzkid, I started plowing driveways when I was 16 when I bought my first truck/plow. The same accounts I had since I was 10 and only had a snow shovel.


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## REAPER

wizzkid316;381020 said:


> I'm 18 years old, but I do all my plowing around my neighborhood and some people on the other street, I have a John Deere 214. I have a good set-up. Heater, flashers, lights. It's fun, I wouldn't get commercial insurance right away unless I had upteen customers. And my neighbor is a lady and lady's aren't very...... very.... well you know what I mean. And as soon as I did that I finished up. Went home. I added up how much I owed she owed me so I could tell her and we could discuss it, and I went and put a letter in her mailbox. Then as soon as I seen her car home I went right up there and talked to her. I wouldn't just do something and try and cover it up. I try and build good customer relationships so they keep wanting me back every year.


For a teenager you show some good responsibility.

If she is willing to work with it about this then you may get away with just a square of aluminum to rivet over the entire area there and caulk around the edges. It would be hard to notice unless up close and would cover the hole completely ensuring no air leak.

You have to learn at some point and by do'ing what you did to make it right quickly shows her something as well. Nobody wants to mess around with a insurance claim if it can be helped. It only raises somebody's premium some where along the line. Be it her homeowners or your own.

Now you know how the tractor handles in ice divots as well.


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## qualitylandscap

Banksy;381042 said:


> Ok, it was his account. Though what happened constitutes hit and run and you could be charged with aiding and abetting for helping him cover it up. Trust me, I know. Not trying to be a wise guy with you and I don't want to lecture, but that sucks for the person who's car it was.
> 
> Sounds good Wizzkid, I started plowing driveways when I was 16 when I bought my first truck/plow. The same accounts I had since I was 10 and only had a snow shovel.


Yea i get what your saying, but really you could even tell he hit. he was in a big international and was backing up slowly and the mud flap was the only thing that touched the car. There wasn't any dents.


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## AndyTblc

Yah, I've been plowing for 5 years now with my tractor, and about 3 years with a little snowblower. And of course I have to plow/blow some of my neighbor for free because 1 neighbor gets me a season pass for skiing, the other neighbor has a pool that I get to swim in whenever I want, The other neighbor repairs my tractor whenever I need it. And it is something that I like to do and I don't mind doing it for people, I'd rather plow and blow snow then play video games any day of the week. The other neighbor makes me cookies and chili and brownies with hot fudge (don't tell me that ain't worth it) And the other one I MUST do for free because the plow belongs to her, it was sitting behind her house for 15 years in the same spot, so it's a permanent lease. And when I went to that lady's house to tell her, she said that she is glad that I came up immediately asked how to get it fixed and what to do. A lot of people say that I am more responsible then any other 18 year old they know.


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## Petr51488

wizzkid316;381079 said:


> Yah, I've been plowing for 5 years now with my tractor, and about 3 years with a little snowblower. And of course I have to plow/blow some of my neighbor for free because 1 neighbor gets me a season pass for skiing, the other neighbor has a pool that I get to swim in whenever I want, The other neighbor repairs my tractor whenever I need it. And it is something that I like to do and I don't mind doing it for people, I'd rather plow and blow snow then play video games any day of the week. The other neighbor makes me cookies and chili and brownies with hot fudge (don't tell me that ain't worth it) And the other one I MUST do for free because the plow belongs to her, it was sitting behind her house for 15 years in the same spot, so it's a permanent lease. And when I went to that lady's house to tell her, she said that she is glad that I came up immediately asked how to get it fixed and what to do. A lot of people say that I am more responsible then any other 18 year old they know.


Sounds to me like your doing everyone's for free. Thats why you can't afford insurance.


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## AndyTblc

I don't do any of them for free. 85% I get payed for. And the ones I don't charge for are ones that I'd have to pay to do anyway. My neighbor gets me a pass to a local ski resort, thats $200. The other neighbor does repair work on my tractor and my vehicle. And the other neighbor which owns the plow. I have to do hers, cuz I am making money off of her equipment. But I still make a couple hundred dollars each winter, and all of them are small driveways. Trust me I still get my money. Plus it gives me something to do.


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## Post Mowing

Sounds like your doing a good job. thats the way to start out do a nice job and the old ladys love you. I have gotten so much work from the old ladys talking at church; from other peoples yards to doing the church and grave sites. One hand washes the other and it should come back around to you in the end.


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## AndyTblc

Thats how it usually works for me, I do 1, she comes out and says to go do her parents and go to the door for money. Sometimes I don't like getting jobs at the last minute if I have plans, but I learned many years ago that with snowplowing you can't have a schedule during a storm.


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## MSS Mow

wizzkid316;381000 said:


> Yah, but I"m not commercial, I do 15 driveways with my john deere lawn and garden tractor. This isn't commercial, and I did go and talk to her today and she said that she noticed it, and she doesn't think it is necessary to replace it. She said we'll try and bend it back then touch it up. So I'll work it out in the spring. She isn't worried about it. She said that it was part her fault for letting the ice be there, and I told her that she can pay me to put chloride down, and she said she didn't need to. I got a truck for lawn mowing, and I'm going to be looking into a plow for it, and that is what I'll have insurance on.


Oh, but you are commercial. If you plow other people's driveways for compensation, then you are considered commercial. It doesn't matter if all your accounts are residential. You obviously appear to be hard working and more responsible than most any other teenager, that's why I'd hate to see something happen cause you don't have any insurance. You did the right thing by telling the woman right away and she obviously respects your very much for that. You're way ahead of most at your age, just protect yourself. No one else is going to look out for you. You've got a nice setup. Protect it.


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## AndyTblc

I don't expect anyone to look out for me. Sometimes I wish they don't, but it's always good for people to do so. But I like being on my own, I like being independent.


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## dmontgomery

Do all your customers know that you have failed to protect them, their property, and yourself by not having insurance. If accidents never happend no one would need insurance....

See how many decide to still used you when you stop by and tell them " oh by the way, I have no insurance to cover the cost of any damage to your property, see you when it snows..."

I was only doing residentials until this year....I had/have $1,000,000 in GL ins.... I am not risking myself for a $30.00 driveway......

D


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## Frozen001

qualitylandscap;381054 said:


> Yea i get what your saying, but really you could even tell he hit. he was in a big international and was backing up slowly and the mud flap was the only thing that touched the car. There wasn't any dents.





qualitylandscape said:


> I work for my sister b/f plowing snow and we were at large industrial building and he back up into a car and pushed it back five feet, he didn't realize it till i called him on the cb.


Man that must be one heavy mud flap to move a car 5 feet


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## Yaz

wizzkid316;380902 said:


> Did anyone ever plow with a tractor with the blade all the way to the right and catch ice and swing your tractor all the way to the left into a garage door, Well it happened to me. This is my first incident that didn't occur at my house.


I would still replace the panel.

What you need to do is find out who makes it and then order one panel and put it on yourself. I bet it will cost under 200 bucks for the panel. payup

Ice or no ice. Adjust your angle before getting to a door, pull up then carefully look at controller and lower the blade and drag back. never angle at the door. especially with a newer floating stop blades. I know you said it was the ice but other guys have done this before, you're not alone.:crying:


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## qualitylandscap

Frozen001;381331 said:


> Man that must be one heavy mud flap to move a car 5 feet


Should of said the only thing that came in contact was the mud flap. The truck pushed it it, but the mud flap was touching the car. Sorry for that confusion.


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## AndyTblc

dmontgomery;381328 said:


> Do all your customers know that you have failed to protect them, their property, and yourself by not having insurance. If accidents never happend no one would need insurance....
> 
> See how many decide to still used you when you stop by and tell them " oh by the way, I have no insurance to cover the cost of any damage to your property, see you when it snows..."
> 
> I was only doing residentials until this year....I had/have $1,000,000 in GL ins.... I am not risking myself for a $30.00 driveway......
> 
> D


They all know that I don't have insurance. They said they don't care. I've been plowing and cutting grass for years. That is the only incident that have had any property damage too, and it isn't that major. She said there is no need to get a new garage door, because it isn't that new.


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## REAPER

Whizkid. Please do not attempt to replace the panel yourself.

Trust me on this if you do not have a person that has removed or replaced garage doors or panels it can not only be to complicated for a beginner it can cause death if you are not careful. The springs and cables on these doors are extreme and to unwind it and then wind it back properly is a job best left for professionals. Or at least someone who has done this and has the proper tools. 

It is not just a unbolt pop out and replace job if you replace the entire panel.


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## AndyTblc

I don't plan on replacing it by my self. And I am very aware of the springs and cables. And I have replaced garage doors before. It is deffinetly something that I wouldn't want to do for a living. I know somebody that has had a spring break in their face. And I just plan on putting some caulk in there and stuff like that. I talked to somebody else that I know who did that, and he said after he caulked it, he is the only one that knows it is there because he fixed it, nobody else knew it was there. So you don't have to worry.


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## Petr51488

wizzkid316;381416 said:


> They all know that I don't have insurance. They said they don't care. I've been plowing and cutting grass for years. That is the only incident that have had any property damage too, and it isn't that major. She said there is no need to get a new garage door, because it isn't that new.


The whole point of insurance is the fear of the unknown. You never know when an accident is going to happen. If we did, they would never happen. You're 18, and should know that insurance is a must, especially in this business. If you were 15, 16, then it would be a different story. You dont exactly want a rock to shoot out from under a lawnmower and hit someone in the face rite? **** happens. Thats why you have insurance. You should really look into it.


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## dodgeguy99

all you guys that are giving him crap for having no insurance need to lay off a little bit to be honest he cant do that much damage with a garden tractor. now if he had a truck and a plow then he would need insurance. i know he can still do damage but its probly more profitable for him to pay out of pocket for any damages. and if his customers know he doesnt have any insurance and they are ok with that then i dont think he needs it until he gets some bigger equiptment.


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## Stuffdeer

dodgeguy99;381609 said:


> all you guys that are giving him crap for having no insurance need to lay off a little bit to be honest he cant do that much damage with a garden tractor. now if he had a truck and a plow then he would need insurance. i know he can still do damage but its probly more profitable for him to pay out of pocket for any damages. and if his customers know he doesnt have any insurance and they are ok with that then i dont think he needs it until he gets some bigger equiptment.


I have to say...If he did this with a lawn tractor...I'd hate to see how he is going to plow with a truck.


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## dodgeguy99

Stuffdeer;381619 said:


> I have to say...If he did this with a lawn tractor...I'd hate to see how he is going to plow with a truck.


and you have never hit anything with a truck and plow???


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## Stuffdeer

dodgeguy99;381621 said:


> and you have never hit anything with a truck and plow???


No...Because I don't want to use a truck and a plow yet. I use an ATV with a plow for all my residential drives.'

And, I can do any residential around here, Faster then any truck with a plow..


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## dodgeguy99

Stuffdeer;381622 said:


> No...Because I don't want to use a truck and a plow yet. I use an ATV with a plow for all my residential drives.'
> 
> And, I can do any residential around here, Faster then any truck with a plow..


oh i am sure when there is 12" of wet heavy snow you can plow past the big boys all day long


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## NCass31

reaper.. were you in the Marine Corps?


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## Stuffdeer

dodgeguy99;381624 said:


> oh i am sure when there is 12" of wet heavy snow you can plow past the big boys all day long


Acually...Yes. You'd be surprised. I have pushed 10" of heavy wet stuff with no problem.

Considoring the drifts here the last storm were over 2 ft, and pulled out stuck trucks, I think 12" of wet stuff, is nothing.

So, until you use an ATV with a plow, don't be hatin' on it.


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## dodgeguy99

Stuffdeer;381627 said:


> Acually...Yes. You'd be surprised. I have pushed 10" of heavy wet stuff with no problem.
> 
> Considoring the drifts here the last storm were over 2 ft, and pulled out stuck trucks, I think 12" of wet stuff, is nothing.
> 
> So, until you use an ATV with a plow, don't be hatin' on it.


i used a Honda rincon 650 with brand new tires and chains and it couldnt push worth ***** i would rather use a walk behind snowblower.
the trucks oviousally werent that stuck if you could pull them out.

i will admit that 4 wheelers work good in storms under 6" but above that its not worth it.


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## Stuffdeer

dodgeguy99;381630 said:


> i used a Honda rincon 650 with brand new tires and chains and it couldnt push worth ***** i would rather use a walk behind snowblower.
> the trucks oviousally werent that stuck if you could pull them out.
> 
> i will admit that 4 wheelers work good in storms under 6" but above that its not worth it.


Heh....Your funny...

If you look, The Honda Rincon is a proven CRUISING quad. Why do you think that Honda made the RUBICON?

The rincon's have super high gears, whether manual or auto. 
With new snow tires, and chains, I could push the biggest storm with ease around here. 
Considering I also have 100-150 lbs of salt on the rear rack, I also have great traction.


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## dodgeguy99

Stuffdeer;381633 said:


> Heh....Your funny...
> 
> If you look, The Honda Rincon is a proven CRUISING quad. Why do you think that Honda made the RUBICON?
> 
> The rincon's have super high gears, whether manual or auto.
> With new snow tires, and chains, I could push the biggest storm with ease around here.
> Considering I also have 100-150 lbs of salt on the rear rack, I also have great traction.


all right little kid if you want to plow with an atv for the rest of your life w/e but your never going to make the big bucks plowing with an ATV. some of my lots take me 7-8 hours with a 9' plow and truck just imagine how long it would take with an atv. thats fine if you want to plow residentials but you will find out that sooner or later a truck will be more profitable.


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## Yaz

REAPER;381502 said:


> Whizkid. Please do not attempt to replace the panel yourself.
> 
> Trust me on this if you do not have a person that has removed or replaced garage doors or panels it can not only be to complicated for a beginner it can cause death if you are not careful. The springs and cables on these doors are extreme and to unwind it and then wind it back properly is a job best left for professionals. Or at least someone who has done this and has the proper tools.
> 
> It is not just a unbolt pop out and replace job if you replace the entire panel.


I did many and the first one with no help and it was simple. yes you can hurt yourself but give the kid some credit. You can drill a hole in your arm with a drill or cut off you finger with a skill saw but to tell him he can't do it is kind of week. I say why not tell him how to do it safely if your concerned. Or you never did it and your going by what was told to you?So is he blind that he can't look at the springs and cables and figure out how to lock them and not have them spring up and take his eye out in the process? 
lots of professionals just used a pair of vise grips on each cable and have the door supported half way up with the power lift. use the old door as a template for the hinges and handle.


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## Stuffdeer

dodgeguy99;381637 said:


> all right little kid if you want to plow with an atv for the rest of your life w/e but your never going to make the big bucks plowing with an ATV. some of my lots take me 7-8 hours with a 9' plow and truck just imagine how long it would take with an atv. thats fine if you want to plow residentials but you will find out that sooner or later a truck will be more profitable.


Now, When did I EVER say, I wanted to plow with an ATV for the rest of my life?

I didn't. Probably next year, I will be looking for a F-150 to plow with. I'm sticking with residentials, as no one wants to do them around here. I have created my niche with my ATV.

So, now, Why change the subject and start making fun of me, Lets get back to pushing 12" of heavy wet snow with my ATV? Couldn't think of a response to my last question?


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## dodgeguy99

Stuffdeer;381640 said:


> Now, When did I EVER say, I wanted to plow with an ATV for the rest of my life?
> 
> I didn't. Probably next year, I will be looking for a F-150 to plow with. I'm sticking with residentials, as no one wants to do them around here. I have created my niche with my ATV.
> 
> So, now, Why change the subject and start making fun of me, Lets get back to pushing 12" of heavy wet snow with my ATV? Couldn't think of a response to my last question?


well i assumed that you did not want a truck and a plow because you said it is quicker with an atv wich is bs when you factor in the time to unload the atv off the truck and reload and chain down etc.


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## dodgeguy99

and as far as gearing on the rincon that was not the problem the problem was getting traction


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## Sydenstricker Landscaping

Not to stir the piss fest here boys, but I have seen the pics of Stuff's quad/plow set-up and I can safely say that bad boy could push 12" of wet snow no problem. And I am also willing to bet in a snowstorm, he just rides the quad to his drives. But I could be wrong. Just trying to help you for a sec. Stuff:waving: Continue pissing


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## Stuffdeer

dodgeguy99;381645 said:


> and as far as gearing on the rincon that was not the problem the problem was getting traction


Hmm...I really haven't had any problems like that.

I think in that aspect, you could of bought new Mud Tires, and Possibly threw some weight on the back rack.

I can say, I don't think I've ever spun all 4 of my wheels just pushing out of a driveway, pushing a pile back, yes, but not just regular pushing.

Sorry about getting so defensive, but I hate when people talk to me like I'm a little kid, I'm not, and treat this like a business. I don't have a use for a truck at this point, as I'm doing just fine.

But, again, Sorry.


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## Stuffdeer

Sydenstricker Landscaping;381646 said:


> Not to stir the piss fest here boys, but I have seen the pics of Stuff's quad/plow set-up and I can safely say that bad boy could push 12" of wet snow no problem. And I am also willing to bet in a snowstorm, he just rides the quad to his drives. But I could be wrong. Just trying to help you for a sec. Stuff:waving: Continue pissing


Thanks dude! Yea, I just ride from house to house. The majority of the cops know me here, and they know I use this for work, And not play.

Considering I do 20 drives less then a half mile from mile house...This works awesomely, if that is even a word.


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## dodgeguy99

w/e i try not to make enemies on plowsite but when you where trying to say that an atv is faster to plow with than a truck that just got me going.


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## Stuffdeer

dodgeguy99;381651 said:


> w/e i try not to make enemies on plowsite but when you where trying to say that an atv is faster to plow with than a truck that just got me going.


...I said, I could do driveways faster then a truck _around here_. There is no way your getting anything bigger then a ranger in most parts of the driveway here.


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## dodgeguy99

one of my friends was riding his atv on the street once in the middle of the storm he got pulled over man did he get bit*hed out and had to call me to bring it home. and he had to go to court and he had to go to some classes in order not to pay a ticket.


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## Stuffdeer

dodgeguy99;381654 said:


> one of my friends was riding his atv on the street once in the middle of the storm he got pulled over man did he get bit*hed out and had to call me to bring it home. and he had to go to court and he had to go to some classes in order not to pay a ticket.


Yes. Thats your friend...In Minnesota. I'm Mike, In Michigan.


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## dodgeguy99

so in Michigan your saying there is no laws as to riding 4 wheelers on the street you are just lucky you dont have a$$hole cops over there like i have around me.


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## Stuffdeer

dodgeguy99;381656 said:


> so in Michigan your saying there is no laws as to riding 4 wheelers on the street you are just lucky you dont have a$$hole cops over there like i have around me.


In Michigan, you can get an SMV for a ATV, Which would make it legal to drive on streets for occasion use, like snow plowing.


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## somm

*HAS THIS THREAD BEEN HI-JACKED ??????????*
Even if insured - one isn't obligated to install new panels on old garage doors.

If punctured and/or still too cold(less than 50 degrees) to paint, install a small strip of white alum. trim (comes on roll or panel at hdwe. stores for about $12), anchored by 2 self drilling screws. To caulk - use small disposable squeeze tube of gloss white $2 from hdwe store underneath your installed alum strip and in back of door only (surrounding the front with caulk looks like pure "crap" after a year, leave the tube with the client and let them caulk it themselves if they feel the need to for some dag strange reason) .

For not punctured - just sandpaper, wipe clean, then spray a small 2-3 shots (not dripping)from a well shook can of oil-based Kilz, Zissers, or similar white sealing-primer paint( hdwe store $5-7) . Take coffee break for half hour to let dry well.
Next ($7-10) from auto-parts store get a well-shook spray can of Appliance-grade white enamel paint at light 2 topcoats, having at least 15 minutes between topcoats at temps above 45 degrees.

*Well put post #30 ! Get insured friend - this could've been so way-worse with serious property damages if you had also been sliding on ice.*


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## REAPER

NCass31;381625 said:


> reaper.. were you in the Marine Corps?


No I was a ARMY grunt. As was my daughter and as is her husband. He is a E8 nervously awaiting his 3rd tour in Iraq.


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## REAPER

Yaz;381638 said:


> I did many and the first one with no help and it was simple. yes you can hurt yourself but give the kid some credit. You can drill a hole in your arm with a drill or cut off you finger with a skill saw but to tell him he can't do it is kind of week. I say why not tell him how to do it safely if your concerned. Or you never did it and your going by what was told to you?So is he blind that he can't look at the springs and cables and figure out how to lock them and not have them spring up and take his eye out in the process?
> lots of professionals just used a pair of vise grips on each cable and have the door supported half way up with the power lift. use the old door as a template for the hinges and handle.


They may have claimed to be professional but taking shortcuts with safety is not. Using vise-grips to pinch off the cable is a shortcut I would not recommend.

You have no idea about my mechanical ability and my knowledge far exceeds that of a garage door installation. Which yes I have done a couple of times and is why I gave him the advice i did.

This is a message board and I gave what I thought to be the best advice in relation to what was being said.

If he had made a thread about garage door panel replacement I would have offered other advice.


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## Vulcanclassic15

Wizzkid, I am concerned about the plow you are using. When I was a kid, years & years ago, I started out plowing with a tractor & plow that was given to me. My grandfather gave me the old tractor & plow. In return I mowed his yard & plowed his drive, he even helped me get more drives & yards to do in the area. Him & I never made out any contract or receipt that said he gave the equipment to me, him & I had a very good relation ship & was very close.
After he passed away I kept up all the yard work & plowing for my grandmother. After buying my own truck I decided to fix up the tractor, put a lot of time & money into it. About 3 months after restoring the tractor my grandmother passed away. My Dad new that my Grandfather gave me the tractor but his sister said that she was told they let me use it to take care of there property only.
We ended up in court because I would not return it!! I lost the case because I had nothing to show that it was given to me. They sold the tractor for $4,500.00 & I did not get any of the money, I spent about 8 months restoring it plus thousands of dollars for all new parts!
GET A CONTRACT WITH YOUR NEIGHBOR!!!! Even if it only says you own the plow after plowing __ seasons & leave a area for her to sign off each season. Remember, if you break something on the plow, you most likely will fix it, it might only cost time or it could cost $$ but if you use it, make money with it, you should know you are at least going to own it at some point.
Glad to see that some young men are still willing to get out & work, most of the kids around my area will not even help out with yard work.


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## LHK2

Here we go again. I have truck and plow, Now I am a snow professional. O I forgot, I don't have insurance. Give me a F****in break. Accidents happen, but get the right **** before you go into business. What the hell would you do if you went into surgery and the doctor F'd up and said, sorry I forgot my ring inside you, oh by the way, I don't have insurance. U sued his a$$ right. Like the others said, it could have been worse. U R Lucky. I really don't understand some peoples thinking. Hitting a car and throwing snow on it because you were behind. U call yourself a professional? Thats called giving every legit contractor a bad name, (it's called give me your money and I will screw you.)


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## AndyTblc

If my neighbor askes for that plow back, I'll be more then happy to give it to her with no question. But after it sitting in her back yard for 15 years, I doubt she'll want it back. I asked her if I could use the plow, and she said that she'll never use it again. She said it was a perminent lease on it. And besides they have nothing to prove that it is their plow. But I call the plow mine. But me and 2 neighbors and my dad knows that it isn't mine. But nobody thinks anything of it. 
And about the insurace, if a doctor don't have insurance and he did that, yah I'd sue him. But my neighbor knows that I have the money, my family indeeds has the money no question. But if I do have a pick-up truck I would look into insurance, but wouldn't the property damage stuff in the policy cover that?


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## Mick

wizzkid316;381849 said:


> ... but wouldn't the property damage stuff in the policy cover that?


No. For so many reasons, it would take hours to put them all in writing. But it comes down to two things - 1) The insurance company will not want to pay for something that was done by a so-called contractor that was supposed to have his own insurance for this type of thing and 2) Why would the homeowner "volunteer" to have a claim against his policy which will likely lead to an increase in premiums?

All contractors (which means people who provide a service or goods) are required to be properly insured. This means at least a General Liability policy. This will in turn mean a Commercial Vehicle policy in the case of plowing snow.

Again - No, the homeowner policy does not cover damage by a contractor. At best, the insurance company will pay the repairs, then have the legal right to come after the contractor for all monies spent. At worst, they will deny the claim because the homeowner was negligent for hiring an improperly insured contractor. The homeowner then MAY sue you, depending on the extent of damages.

But then, I probably don't know anything about it.


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## AndyTblc

Well, what if she told the insurance company that she was running the plow? What would the outcome of that be. I wouldn't know because I've never delt with insurance so I'm learning all about this stuff when you tell me. But yah, I know for a fact that she won't sue me. I told her that I went threw my files and figured how much I made this winter and how much she owes me. And she is more concerned about how much she owes me still for the winter. She said that she wants to make sure I charge her enough money. She isn't concerned with the door. I told her that I'd try and bend it back and put some caulk in there and touch up the scratches, and she said that it sounded like a plan. And then she told me that when i'm done plowing for the year to leave her a bill. Then that was it.


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## Up North

wizzkid316;381986 said:


> Well, what if she told the insurance company that she was running the plow? What would the outcome of that be. I wouldn't know because I've never delt with insurance so I'm learning all about this stuff when you tell me. But yah, I know for a fact that she won't sue me. I told her that I went threw my files and figured how much I made this winter and how much she owes me. And she is more concerned about how much she owes me still for the winter. She said that she wants to make sure I charge her enough money. She isn't concerned with the door. I told her that I'd try and bend it back and put some caulk in there and touch up the scratches, and she said that it sounded like a plan. And then she told me that when i'm done plowing for the year to leave her a bill. Then that was it.


The outcome is that someone has lied to an insurance company. If that insurance company decides to investigate the claim, the homeowner, and the contractor (you), could be in a heap of trouble...the garage door panel would seem to be a drop in the bucket for what it would cost to get out of the mess created by not telling the truth.

Whizzkid, I'll give you all the credit in the world for going out and working you're tail off instead of hanging out at the mall. But there's two ways of which you can choose to learn for on down the road in your future:

1. Listen to the voice of experience. Folks that have done this for years & years are willing to lend you "free" advice here. Use it, don't make it seem as if you know everything possible as an 18 year old. Otherwise people will tend to turn the other way next time you need advice. You have two ears and one mouth for a reason (I learned that from my dad long ago).

2. You can go out there and learn the hard way. Which I hope doesn't include shooting a rock out of the snowblower and pegging someone shoveling the sidewalk nextdoor. You are 18, you will be held responsible by the court of the law for any type of damage you may cause. Learning the hard way can be pretty earth shattering, I'd listen to the advice if possible.

Again, kudos to you for doing what you are, meaning getting out there and earning your $$. We all started somewhere, but be smart and make sure you cover all of your bases, that includes paying any taxes due on that income. I know it's just plowing with a lawn tractor and only 20 driveways or whatever, but the law doesn't care as long as you're 18.

I have to pay my taxes and have the proper insurance, and I expect all my competitors to do the same. I know you are not a competitor, but I'm sure there may be a guy or two in your area that may consider you one. Anyway, good luck on the door panel, and keep up the good work.

Buck


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## Petr51488

Up North;381997 said:


> The outcome is that someone has lied to an insurance company. If that insurance company decides to investigate the claim, the homeowner, and the contractor (you), could be in a heap of trouble...the garage door panel would seem to be a drop in the bucket for what it would cost to get out of the mess created by not telling the truth.
> 
> Whizzkid, I'll give you all the credit in the world for going out and working you're tail off instead of hanging out at the mall. But there's two ways of which you can choose to learn for on down the road in your future:
> 
> 1. Listen to the voice of experience. Folks that have done this for years & years are willing to lend you "free" advice here. Use it, don't make it seem as if you know everything possible as an 18 year old. Otherwise people will tend to turn the other way next time you need advice. You have two ears and one mouth for a reason (I learned that from my dad long ago).
> 
> 2. You can go out there and learn the hard way. Which I hope doesn't include shooting a rock out of the snowblower and pegging someone shoveling the sidewalk nextdoor. You are 18, you will be held responsible by the court of the law for any type of damage you may cause. Learning the hard way can be pretty earth shattering, I'd listen to the advice if possible.
> 
> Again, kudos to you for doing what you are, meaning getting out there and earning your $$. We all started somewhere, but be smart and make sure you cover all of your bases, that includes paying any taxes due on that income. I know it's just plowing with a lawn tractor and only 20 driveways or whatever, but the law doesn't care as long as you're 18.
> 
> I have to pay my taxes and have the proper insurance, and I expect all my competitors to do the same. I know you are not a competitor, but I'm sure there may be a guy or two in your area that may consider you one. Anyway, good luck on the door panel, and keep up the good work.
> 
> Buck


Great Advice!


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## Mick

wizzkid316;381986 said:


> Well, what if she told the insurance company that she was running the plow? What would the outcome of that be.


Like Buck said, it's called "insurance fraud". Insurance companies will spend more on investigations than the original claim would have cost them. It wouldn't be hard to prove - first they see that she doesn't own a vehicle and plow which raises their suspicions, then they threaten her with legal action if she is less than 100% truthful.

You say she wouldn't sue you - that may be, but it may not be her decision. Scenario - You plow her driveway. It freezes over for whatever reason. A visitor to her house falls on the resulting packed snow and ice; breaking a leg and getting a concussion. Visitor sues homeowner's insurance for medical expenses and "pain and suffering" - total $500,000. Homeowner has no choice but to but to let visitor have name of insurance co. Insurance co investigates and says "Not so fast, contractor was responsible for keeping this area clear of snow in a manner that the resulting conditions would not occur". Now you say, "Not so fast, my parents' Homeowner insurance company is responsible". Your parents' insurance co says "Not so fast, there is nothing in the policy to cover this type of claim". Now the judge awards Visitor $500,000 of which you are at least partially responsible (say 1/2 - home owner was negligent for hiring an improperly insured contractor in the first place). You now owe Visitor $250,000 plus interest from date of award, which you are ordered to pay at the rate of $250 per week. The homeowner is also ordered to pay $250 per week (her insurance may now actually cover this liability). Maybe this scenario is not LIKELY, but it is POSSIBLE which is why we carry insurance. I've had commercial insurance from my first push and I wouldn't put in a claim for a garage door, either. I'm saving the insurance in the case of "the big one".


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## Frozen001

somm;381682 said:


> If punctured and/or still too cold(less than 50 degrees) to paint, install a small strip of white alum. trim (comes on roll or panel at hdwe. stores for about $12), anchored by 2 self drilling screws. To caulk - use small disposable squeeze tube of gloss white $2 from hdwe store underneath your installed alum strip and in back of door only (surrounding the front with caulk looks like pure "crap" after a year, leave the tube with the client and let them caulk it themselves if they feel the need to for some dag strange reason) .
> 
> For not punctured - just sandpaper, wipe clean, then spray a small 2-3 shots (not dripping)from a well shook can of oil-based Kilz, Zissers, or similar white sealing-primer paint( hdwe store $5-7) . Take coffee break for half hour to let dry well.
> Next ($7-10) from auto-parts store get a well-shook spray can of Appliance-grade white enamel paint at light 2 topcoats, having at least 15 minutes between topcoats at temps above 45 degrees.
> 
> *Well put post #30 ! Get insured friend - this could've been so way-worse with serious property damages if you had also been sliding on ice.*


I cannot believe ANY one would recommend this a an adequate fix for this type of door, there is no what you would not notice it if you did this type of repair. The panel NEEDS to be replace no matter how old the door is. Throwing caulk in the hole or putting a patch in will look bad at best. I know that if someone hit my door and ripped a hole in it, and only threw some caulk or used a piece of aluminum w/screws or rivets they would not be plowing my driveway again. Do the right thing replace the panel (or have it replaced).


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## somm

The Customer ain't pushing the issue for a new panel, Froze. The "Whiz" dude ain't adept at re-paneling garage doors, Froze.
A handyman style of fix-it as we've described will last longer than when this Customer's original door turns to RUST.

If you read thru the non-hijacked text - you, your property, and your opinion ain't at issue here, Froze. But Whiz's quick fix is, a'ight? 

If you'd care to give us all the cost breakdowns and the step by step as to HOW YOU'D replace the panel, Froze - all of PLOWSITE would be enlightened and forever grateful,k?


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## the_mayor

I did the same thing to my own door a few years back. If this door is anything like mine the fix was simple. 

First I hit that little button on my sun viser that tells my door to go up.Then I hit it a gain when the door went up about 2ft. Then I removed the bottom panel and set it next to the new one. I transfered all hardware including insulation. Then Just reinstalled the pannel, lowed the door and got a beer. Whole project took 25min and around $100 for a plain white 16ft panel with no hardware. It's not rocket science, the moron that screws my order up at Mcdonalds drive-thru just got a job installing garage doors, and I heard he's doing just fine.


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## Frozen001

somm;382076 said:


> The Customer ain't pushing the issue for a new panel, Froze. The "Whiz" dude ain't adept at re-paneling garage doors, Froze.
> A handyman style of fix-it as we've described will last longer than when this Customer's original door turns to RUST.
> 
> If you read thru the non-hijacked text - you, your property, and your opinion ain't at issue here, Froze. But Whiz's quick fix is, a'ight?
> 
> If you'd care to give us all the cost breakdowns and the step by step as to HOW YOU'D replace the panel, Froze - all of PLOWSITE would be enlightened and forever grateful,k?


What has been described her is a cob job...and frankly will look like sh*t... The door is aluminum.. his damage is quite extensive, ( large dent and a tear in the aluminum) like the_mayor stated is is not that complicated, and if he cannot do it himself then he should pay someone who can... Your "handyman" fix will never last much more than a few years at best... if he caulks the tear, it will crack and fall out eventually... if he patches it and paints it, it will never have the same texture of the existing panel... and will always look like it was patched... Just because the customer is not pushing for a new panel, does not mean a hack patch job is the correct thing to do... The correct thing to do for Wiz would be to tell her all her options (i.e. caulk the hole, patch the hole and paint, or replace the panel, and don't tell her the cost of any option since he will be absorbing the cost of the fix)... let her chose and get it in writing that it is what she wants to do, and then proceed to fix it...

But I guess too each his own... I prefer to do things the correct way rather than a hack job...


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## billfires

One of the things everyone seems to be missing is that you carry insurance to protect your assets. I don't even know if an 18 year old with only a lawn tractor could get plowing insurance. I find it hard to believe a homeowner would expect him to have insurance with this tractor. If he is a competitor to some one with a truck with a plow I feel sorry for the guy with the truck. Not trying to incite anything, only my honest opinion. Bill C


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## Frozen001

billfires;382112 said:


> One of the things everyone seems to be missing is that you carry insurance to protect your assets. I don't even know if an 18 year old with only a lawn tractor could get plowing insurance. I find it hard to believe a homeowner would expect him to have insurance with this tractor. If he is a competitor to some one with a truck with a plow I feel sorry for the guy with the truck. Not trying to incite anything, only my honest opinion. Bill C


I think most agree that he should have insurance, but since he doesn't he has to pony up the money to get if fixed!!


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## AndyTblc

I told her all the options that she has. She said there is no need to replace the panel. SHE said that we can just touch it up with some paint. I told her that we could put some caulk in the hole to cover it up. and SHE said that it won't be necessary to replace the whole panel. Heck she didn't even know they came in sections until I showed her, and she said that she don't want to have that much work. And besides it is an older garage door.


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## the_mayor

"She don't want to have that much work" 
What is that supposed mean? Is she under the impression that she has to pay for the work? Brother, I don't know what the problem is. You blew a hole in a customers door. You gotta man up and replace it. End of story.


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## LHK2

Question is , What happens next time? Hit a car, etc? If you are going to snow plow and COLLECT money, do it the right way. And not for chili, cookies and milk. Anybody, ( and alot of them do, they have a plow and call themselves professional, Professional scam artist is what they are called.) If you plow, pay your taxes, get the right insurance coverage, bonded and if needed a vender's license. Enough said. NEXT!


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## Post Mowing

Holy crap guys its a kid with a lawn mower lighten up i know insurance insurance insurance but give the kid a break. yes you should put a new panel in even if she says a fix would be ok. but the rest of you should go after the 20 guys with the trucks that Dont have insurance like the guy that PUSHED the car the put some snow on it and left it.


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## AndyTblc

Thanks Post. I asked her that day if she wanted it replaced. I told her that when I hit her door, I went home and looked at my balance that she owes me and what I've made so far this year, and I told her that I have more then enough to replace that part of the garage door, and I told her that I'd get help from people that know what they are doing. She said it isn't necessary, because that garage door is an older door, and doesn't need any special treatment. She is more concerned about me getting my money she owes me.


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## Mick

Post Mowing;382262 said:


> Holy crap guys its a kid with a lawn mower....


Lawn mower? I thought lawn mowers were used to cut grass.

Didn't he say he was using a plow that had been sitting out back for several years?

Oh, ok. I went back and read some of the beginning posts and see where I got confused. He started off saying he was using a tractor and plow; which he later clarified as a lawn and garden tractor. To me, a tractor is a little bigger than something used to cut grass. Anyway, he also said in the beginning that he put away money every year for stuff like this. This is like being self-insured, so the proper course now is to have the door repaired professionally using the contingency fund. Several places, he has mentioned about her being concerned about him getting paid, etc. This is not a mature or professional outlook and I would consider it as very demeaning if someone took that attitude toward me.


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## Frozen001

wizzkid316;382279 said:


> Thanks Post. I asked her that day if she wanted it replaced. I told her that when I hit her door, I went home and looked at my balance that she owes me and what I've made so far this year, and I told her that I have more then enough to replace that part of the garage door, and I told her that I'd get help from people that know what they are doing. She said it isn't necessary, because that garage door is an older door, and doesn't need any special treatment. She is more concerned about me getting my money she owes me.


I think what the problem is that she is looking at you as an 18 year old kid, and judging by your comments about her I picture her as being older(i.e. retirement age), and is letting her heart do the thinking. This happens a lot, and often it is up to YOU to convince her that she is not thinking clearly. Comments like "She is more concerned about me getting my money", are clearly contradictory to normal thinking... Additionally, didn't you say that you do her driveway for "free" since she gave you the plow??



wizzkid316;381079 said:


> Yah, I've been plowing for 5 years now with my tractor, and about 3 years with a little snowblower. And of course I have to plow/blow some of my neighbor for free because 1 neighbor gets me a season pass for skiing, the other neighbor has a pool that I get to swim in whenever I want, The other neighbor repairs my tractor whenever I need it. And it is something that I like to do and I don't mind doing it for people, I'd rather plow and blow snow then play video games any day of the week. The other neighbor makes me cookies and chili and brownies with hot fudge (don't tell me that ain't worth it) *And the other one I MUST do for free because the plow belongs to her, it was sitting behind her house for 15 years in the same spot, so it's a permanent lease*. And when I went to that lady's house to tell her, she said that she is glad that I came up immediately asked how to get it fixed and what to do. A lot of people say that I am more responsible then any other 18 year old they know.


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## AndyTblc

No, she pays me to do hers. She is an assistant principle for a middle school. And I told her that if she wants the panel replaced that I have the money for it. She said it wasn't necessary, I asked her if she was sure. But she isn't the neighbor who gave me the plow. And the other neighbors I do for free are the ones that do stuff for me. And I do them a favor in return. And they said that if I ever needed some money that they'd give me some. But I don't expect them to pay me for it for all they have done for me.


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## Oshkosh

*I dont understand...*

I don't understand,You hit the garage door and put a hole in it where there was no hole before,now you want to patch it?
Personal pride in doing a good job should'nt allow you to mouse the repair.You did the hard part letting the home owner know that you damaged the garage door now it is time to step up to the plate and do the right thing.
Whether the home owner says so or not you should have someone replace the damaged panel. It should be a matter of personal pride if nothing else.


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## AndyTblc

Hey, it's their property, what they say goes. When I asked them, I expect an honest and truthful answer as to how they want to handle the situation. If they tell me the same thing after I ask them what they want to do. Then I will go by what they say. I told them the options she has to work with. She kept giving me the same answer, so I went with it. It is their problem if they wanted it replaced and didn't do it down the road. When I ask a question I expect an answer. Not a we'll see how it goes type of an answer. My personal pride is doing the right thing and telling her what I did and asking what i can do to help. If they turn it down and say "oh just patch it and we'll call it good". Then I move on. I have a life like everyone else here. I have other things I want and need to do besides bugging people about a garage door that is damaged and when they say no they don't want it replaced.


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## Sydenstricker Landscaping

Here all of my insurance, tax, etc guys. Call YOUR insurance company and just for sh*ts and giggles tell them you are 18 and use a lawn tractor to plow snow. See what kind of rates they give or if they will even insure something like that. I started plowing with a truck when I was 16, the insurance companies laughed their ass off at me when I asked for commercial insurance and liability. So I had to go through my dad to get this. Alot of insurance companies wont even give someone commercial insurance or write them a GL if they are under 21 or even 25. Some do, just gotta call around like I did. I am 20 and still got laughed at by a few companies. I found one that is good and gives me good rates. They are high now, but will go down some when I turn 21 then really shoot down when I am 25. So before your buttholes all expand and you all go ape sh*t with your insurance,tax, etc soapboxes, call your ins. guys and see what they say. I got all of my licensing, worker's comp, pay tax, insurance, GL, etc so do even consider bashing me. Kudos to you Whiz for going out and doing this kind of stuff on your own at 18. But when you get a truck and plow just do get the right stuff. You will feel better and be safer. Good luck!!!


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## Up North

Sydenstricker Landscaping;382522 said:


> Here all of my insurance, tax, etc guys. Call YOUR insurance company and just for sh*ts and giggles tell them you are 18 and use a lawn tractor to plow snow. See what kind of rates they give or if they will even insure something like that. I started plowing with a truck when I was 16, the insurance companies laughed their ass off at me when I asked for commercial insurance and liability. So I had to go through my dad to get this. Alot of insurance companies wont even give someone commercial insurance or write them a GL if they are under 21 or even 25. Some do, just gotta call around like I did. I am 20 and still got laughed at by a few companies. I found one that is good and gives me good rates. They are high now, but will go down some when I turn 21 then really shoot down when I am 25. So before your buttholes all expand and you all go ape sh*t with your insurance,tax, etc soapboxes, call your ins. guys and see what they say. I got all of my licensing, worker's comp, pay tax, insurance, GL, etc so do even consider bashing me. Kudos to you Whiz for going out and doing this kind of stuff on your own at 18. But when you get a truck and plow just do get the right stuff. You will feel better and be safer. Good luck!!!


Key thing here...you found a way to get the insurance...even at age 16. Had to be through ma & pa but at least you got it. You know what this whole thing boils down too? The kid asked for advice, he started this thread, looking for answers. The people that gave him advice or tried to help with suggestions basicly got shot down because he already knows "what's best to do". Why even ask then? And keep this in mind, we're dealing with professionals for the most part on this site. For someone that plows as a part of the company's revenue, what would you expect him/her to say? We expect that everyone is a legit contractor, sure we know a few here & there plow for recreation or whatever. But bottomline is we're professionals, we have to carry insurance, pay taxes, and run a legit company. Myself, and I'm sure a lot of other professional contractors are not going to offer up advice to anyone that says it's okay to do what whizkid has done, I don't care if you're plowing with a Tonka truck, lawn mower, or a V-plow. He shouldn't have even asked her anything, it should have been a simple "the garage door company will be out here in a couple days to replace the panel", done deal.

Again, I give the kid credit for being out there at least earning a buck, he's lightyears ahead of a lot of other kids in that way. Anyway, that's all I'm saying about it, some kids are willing to learn, some already know everything.

Buck


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## Petr51488

Up North;382626 said:


> "the garage door company will be out here in a couple days to replace the panel", done deal.
> 
> Buck


You're rite. Thats how it should have been. You broke it, you fix it.


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## Sydenstricker Landscaping

Sure I found a way to get insurance ON A TRUCK!!!!!!! Not a lawn tractor. Guess you missed my point. Oh well. I give up till next season when all of the newbies flood in before season start.


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## Frozen001

Up North;382626 said:


> The kid asked for advice, he started this thread, looking for answers. The people that gave him advice or tried to help with suggestions basicly got shot down because he already knows "what's best to do". Why even ask then?
> 
> Myself, and I'm sure a lot of other professional contractors are not going to offer up advice to anyone that says it's okay to do what whizkid has done, I don't care if you're plowing with a Tonka truck, lawn mower, or a V-plow.
> 
> He shouldn't have even asked her anything, it should have been a simple "the garage door company will be out here in a couple days to replace the panel", done deal.
> 
> Buck


Well Said Buck...


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## Up North

Sydenstricker Landscaping;382667 said:


> Sure I found a way to get insurance ON A TRUCK!!!!!!! Not a lawn tractor. Guess you missed my point. Oh well. I give up till next season when all of the newbies flood in before season start.


The point is...it doesn't matter what you drive, you insure the BUSINESS.

Buck


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## Frozen001

wizzkid316;382464 said:


> Hey, it's their property, what they say goes. When I asked them, I expect an honest and truthful answer as to how they want to handle the situation. If they tell me the same thing after I ask them what they want to do. Then I will go by what they say. I told them the options she has to work with. She kept giving me the same answer, so I went with it.


Your missing the point that some of are trying to get across I think... Just because the owner said it was ok doesn't really mean it is the correct thing to do. For example (probably an extreme example)... Say your building a house, and the owner comes up to you and said I really don't like how that beam looks so take it out. Now this beam is a major support for the house... do you do what the owner wants because "Hey, it's their property, what they say goes"...


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## AndyTblc

I know it's "what the owner wants the owner gets", but if she wanted it replaced she should have told me right there and then and not wait. She said she doesn't need it replaced, and I had figured that seeing how she is hardly ever there. She is always at her parents house. That is 1 of her reasons of not wanting it replaced. And she had a dirt patch for a front yard and a beautiful yard for her back yard, and she had that for many years, and this past fall she had somebody re-plant her yard so it looks better. She said the garage door is the least of her worries.


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## KINNCO

*I ripped the rear bumber cover off my wifes new Honda doing the same thing*


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## Frozen001

wizzkid316;382710 said:


> I know it's "what the owner wants the owner gets", but if she wanted it replaced she should have told me right there and then and not wait. She said she doesn't need it replaced, and I had figured that seeing how she is hardly ever there. She is always at her parents house. That is 1 of her reasons of not wanting it replaced. And she had a dirt patch for a front yard and a beautiful yard for her back yard, and she had that for many years, and this past fall she had somebody re-plant her yard so it looks better. She said the garage door is the least of her worries.


 Ok I am Walking away now... prsport


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## the_mayor

wizzkid316;382710 said:


> I know it's "what the owner wants the owner gets", but if she wanted it replaced she should have told me right there and then and not wait. She said she doesn't need it replaced, and I had figured that seeing how she is hardly ever there. She is always at her parents house. That is 1 of her reasons of not wanting it replaced. And she had a dirt patch for a front yard and a beautiful yard for her back yard, and she had that for many years, and this past fall she had somebody re-plant her yard so it looks better. She said the garage door is the least of her worries.


Are you sure you're 18? Are you seriously going to come on here and tell us, you're not going to fix the door the right way because the customer is at her parents house a lot?!?! What kind of logic is that? And what the hell does her having her yard fixed have anything to do with you blasting a hole in her door?


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## AndyTblc

Yes I'm 18. And She knows that I expect an answer, so she gave me one. I told her I can arrange to have the panel replaced she said no, that won't be necessary. I asked her over and over if she was sure, she said not to worry about it. So if she isn't worried about it them I'm not worried about it. She said that we'll touch it up in the spring, and fill it in and that will be good. I said "ok if that is what you want to do, then I can do that."


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