# Toyota towing BIG enclosed trailer Pics.



## Stuffdeer

I pulled up at the gas station, and was looking, and this pulled up a couple pumps over....


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## DBL

maby hes got another truck in there


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## PLM-1

I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth


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## basher

Have a customer who was pulling a 24 ft travel trailer (3200lbs dry), decide to buy a 32 ft travel trailer (4200lbs dry) I told him not good, truck doesn't have the weight or frame strength and the trailer has too much lever arm . 
He decided it would be fine, toyota told him it could tow 7700lbs, plus he's a desk riding engineer and did the "calculations". 

Second trip out somewhere in upper NY the trailer "for no reason" took them for a ride, by the time it was over they had rolled the whole rig. the truck looked like licorice twist.

Tundra towing big trailer


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## AmericanHandymn

That's the brand new tundra....rated to tow 10,500lbs. That thing is beefey as hell...the short bed with the reg cab and 5.7 engine may be my next plow/tow rig. 381hp 401ftlbs tq....hell of a truck!


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## DBL

is the one in the pick 2wd it looks low i hope its not 4x4


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## Stuffdeer

basher;364901 said:


> Have a customer who was pulling a 24 ft travel trailer (3200lbs dry), decide to buy a 32 ft travel trailer (4200lbs dry) I told him not good, truck doesn't have the weight or frame strength and the trailer has too much lever arm .
> He decided it would be fine, toyota told him it could tow 7700lbs, plus he's a desk riding engineer and did the "calculations".
> 
> Second trip out somewhere in upper NY the trailer "for no reason" took them for a ride, by the time it was over they had rolled the whole rig. the truck looked like licorice twist.
> 
> Tundra towing big trailer


I think that had something to do with Driver Error. I know a guy who tows a 35 ft with an f-150.


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## ThisIsMe

AmericanHandymn;365352 said:


> That's the brand new tundra....rated to tow 10,500lbs. That thing is beefey as hell...the short bed with the reg cab and 5.7 engine may be my next plow/tow rig. 381hp 401ftlbs tq....hell of a truck!


Yep they can tow 10,100 to 10,700 with the 5.7l V8, all while getting 16/20 mpg (without the trailer). 
Thing can trailer right up there with most of the 3/4 tons on the road, if not better then most (using Toyota's ratings). Most likely this Tundra's gas mileage, with the trailer, is right around what a 3/4 ton would get without the trailer.

When Toyota comes out with a 3/4 ton and 1 ton the big three might finally figure it out.


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## ThisIsMe

basher;364901 said:


> Have a customer who was pulling a 24 ft travel trailer (3200lbs dry), decide to buy a 32 ft travel trailer (4200lbs dry) I told him not good, truck doesn't have the weight or frame strength and the trailer has too much lever arm .
> He decided it would be fine, toyota told him it could tow 7700lbs, plus he's a desk riding engineer and did the "calculations".


So the Toyota engineers are wrong in the specifications? Let us look at your math.

Let us say that the he loaded the trailer with 1,000 lbs. giving a total trailer weight of 5200 lbs. Low and behold the Tundra weighs in at 5200lbs (regular cab, long bed, 4x4) as well.

So by your math 5200lb truck = 5200lb towing. Good engineering skills there. 

Using your same math we can look at a Peterbilt 385 day cab. It has a dry weight of around 18,000lbs (if even that). Again your math says that it can only tow 18,000lbs. Given that a 53' box trailer goes around 11,000lbs (roughly) that leaves him with 7,000lbs of payload to put in there.

Given the fact that trucks hauling only 7,000lbs of cargo would most likely shut done our economy, I am glad there are desk engineers working the numbers and not you.


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## THEGOLDPRO

i like it, its a good looking truck, i have said it before the big three better watch out toyota is going to take over.


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## dodgeguy99

THEGOLDPRO;365575 said:


> i like it, its a good looking truck, i have said it before the big three better watch out toyota is going to take over.


i think toyotas are ok personal trucks but i dont think they will be able to make a good work truck that can take a beating day in and day out


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## lodogg89

is what even funnier is look at the pic on the trailer, its another toyota towing a skid. Imagine pulling up to your job site in that, you would probably get shot with a nail gun.


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## dodgeguy99

lodogg89;365948 said:


> is what even funnier is look at the pic on the trailer, its another toyota towing a skid. Imagine pulling up to your job site in that, you would probably get shot with a nail gun.


lol a toyota on the jobsite


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## ThisIsMe

dodgeguy99;365952 said:


> lol a toyota on the jobsite


Why not? Could it be that the new Tundra is made 100% in the USA? Or is it because it is foreign owned?

So a Dodge being 30% made in Mexico and foreign owned is better. OK I see, that makes a lot of sense.


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## dodgeguy99

ThisIsMe;365989 said:


> Why not? Could it be that the new Tundra is made 100% in the USA? Or is it because it is foreign owned?
> 
> So a Dodge being 30% made in Mexico and foreign owned is better. OK I see, that makes a lot of sense.


no its just that it doesnt seem like a work truck to me it seems more like a luxury truck.


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## ThisIsMe

dodgeguy99;365991 said:


> no its just that it doesnt seem like a work truck to me it seems more like a luxury truck.


Really? I always thought of the interior a little on the stripped down side. Then again I have not been around some of the new Tundras so I could be wrong.


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## dodgeguy99

who knows its just that i have never seen a tundra on a jobsite only time will tell if they are accepted by comercial vehickle owners


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## SnoFarmer

PLM-1;364885 said:


> I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth


LOL ,,,spit it out and rince with



ThisIsMe;365501 said:


> So the Toyota engineers are wrong in the specifications? Let us look at your math.
> 
> Let us say that the he loaded the trailer with 1,000 lbs. giving a total trailer weight of 5200 lbs. Low and behold the Tundra weighs in at 5200lbs (regular cab, long bed, 4x4) as well.
> 
> So by your math 5200lb truck = 5200lb towing. Good engineering skills there.
> 
> I am glad there are desk engineers working the numbers and not you.


As we are talking scenarios.... He could have put that 1,000 lbs on the rear of the trailer......Do that math...

Who knows???......


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## THEGOLDPRO

ill tell you what, i have owned nothing but american trucks, and if toyota steps up their game and makes a good true full size i would def buy one, i dont give a **** about brand loyalty, or staying true to american trucks, screw that, toyotas are damn reliable, and great trucks.


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## carl b

THEGOLDPRO;366058 said:


> ill tell you what, i have owned nothing but american trucks, and if toyota steps up their game and makes a good true full size i would def buy one, i dont give a **** about brand loyalty, or staying true to american trucks, screw that, toyotas are damn reliable, and great trucks.


yea, i agree my grampus worked for ford, but i drive Chevy's...there allot better than those junk dodge's and a little better than fords.. lol sorry,saw the pic.had to say it..i would have to see the frame on that truck before i would buy!!!!!


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## THEGOLDPRO

thats what im saying im not real impressed with any of the big 3, so a change would be nice, IMO a few things would need ot be addressed in order to make toyota a threat, overall it looks like a great truck, with good power, until i see one up close ill have to assume that the 4wd modle is low, and not very aggresivly stanced, all i have seen is pics and none of them look too aggresive.

from the looks of it they seem to hold alot of weight in the back with no issues, but i'd be leary of the front with a good size plow, just doesnt look like it could handle one, again i may be wrong only time will tell.

another issue is the 5 lug wheels, thats all they have, even the dodge dakota has a 6 lug, lol.

but eitherway it looks like a decient truck. We have to remember they are marketing this as a half ton not a 3/4 so really until they make a true 3/4-1ton truck it will stay as a homeowners truck.


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## Flipper

That is a 2wd model. All Toyota 4x4 trucks run six lug wheels, always have. Only the Rav4 in 4wd has 5 lugs. Of course a true one ton model would need 8 lugs IMO. The wheels would need to accomodate truck tires on the market in terms of weight rating etc.

As said the other holdup would be the front end. Currently the Tundra front end is the same as the smaller Tacoma. It needs to be beefed up to hold a large plow.


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## SnoFarmer

I will bet IF they do come out with a 3/4 tom it will have a IFS frontend.

I want solid axels for a plow truck.


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## dodgeguy99

IFS (inferior front suspension) is sh1t solid axle is the only way to go for a work truck


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## Joe D

dodgeguy99;367062 said:


> IFS (inferior front suspension) is sh1t solid axle is the only way to go for a work truck


So untrue IFS is not weaker as a system it's weaker when it's designed cheap.


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## Joe D

IFS can be made strong,


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## ThisIsMe

Joe D;368577 said:


> IFS can be made strong,


Or for that matter the HUMVEES (the real ones) have independent axles front and rear. They do pretty good.


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## dodgeguy99

Joe D;368575 said:


> So untrue IFS is not weaker as a system it's weaker when it's designed cheap.


what i should have said is that solid axles are better for work and off road trucks because you can get more wheel travel and you are not always replacing cv shafts


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## Seamus

dodgeguy99;365952 said:


> lol a toyota on the jobsite


You're obviously not a fan of import trucks. Why peruse this forum? I don't go to the other forums and bash Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. Just asking, not looking for a fight...
Seamus


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## dodgeguy99

Seamus;368905 said:


> You're obviously not a fan of import trucks. Why peruse this forum? I don't go to the other forums and bash Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. Just asking, not looking for a fight...
> Seamus


i just am not sure that toyotas will stand up to the abuse of a work truck only time will tell if they can take a beating pulling heavy trailers everyday or plowing snow. if they can stand up to the abuse i think it will be a fine truck


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## ThisIsMe

dodgeguy99;368805 said:


> what i should have said is that solid axles are better for work and off road trucks because you can get more wheel travel and you are not always replacing cv shafts


Huh? More wheel travel? You obviously have never seen a true Hummer or any type of Baja truck.


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## ThisIsMe

Let me see. .....................

More Toyota trucks on the job-site throughout the world then the big three combined. So most of the world is not laughing at such. Feel alone?

Then again the Toyota is made 100% in the US, and we darn well know that such a truck does not belong on a job-site.  

I am pretty sure that a Dodge being made in US, Canada (no offense to Canada), and Mexico with the profits going to Germany, belongs oh so much more on a American job-site then a Toyota. LOL............... get real.


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## Joe D

ThisIsMe;370072 said:


> Let me see. .....................
> 
> More Toyota trucks on the job-site throughout the world then the big three combined. So most of the world is not laughing at such. Feel alone?
> 
> Then again the Toyota is made 100% in the US, and we darn well know that such a truck does not belong on a job-site.
> 
> I am pretty sure that a Dodge being made in US, Canada (no offense to Canada), and Mexico with the profits going to Germany, belongs oh so much more on a American job-site then a Toyota. LOL............... get real.


Dodge is just as "UN" American as Toyota. I at least like that Toyota has plants opening in the USA instead of shifting to other countrys. 
I doubt there are more Toyota pick ups on job anywhere in the world. Maybe there cab overs or Hilux trucks but not the same almost a half tons they make for the states. The new Tundra may change that but for not it's still true.


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## Flipper

I know a used car dealer here that deals mainly in Toyota trucks. He has gotten me a few really clean ones. All the beat and rusted ones are bought and shipped to South America and Africa. So I would say the same trucks in America are being used around the world. He has sold them at auction for twice the blue book ($3000-4000 total for a 12-15 yeard old truck) and the buyers tell him to ship it out of the country.


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## ThisIsMe

Joe D;370363 said:


> Dodge is just as "UN" American as Toyota. I at least like that Toyota has plants opening in the USA instead of shifting to other countrys.
> I doubt there are more Toyota pick ups on job anywhere in the world. Maybe there cab overs or Hilux trucks but not the same almost a half tons they make for the states. The new Tundra may change that but for not it's still true.


I think you missed my point int the sarcasm. I agree with ya.

Dodge = maybe 60% made in the USA (soon to be probably less then 50% with the transmission shift to Mercedes.)

Toyota = 100% made in the USA

Saying one truck does not belong on a job-site is just plain ignorant IMHO.

Not sure on the numbers. Hard to find the numbers to put it together. Plus Ford, Chevy, and GMC do not break out there trucks into pickups when they report their numbers.

But you can at least see that Toyota outsold Dodge (Dodge has nothing other then pickups),944,971 for Toyota to 760,972 for Dodge just in the US.


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## mcwlandscaping

my uncle is a landscaper, has a pretty decent sized company and has ALWAYS used toyota trucks, even plowed with one when he liked plowing (his company doesn't plow anymore), and i have to give toyota respect as those trucks NEVER let him down.


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## dodgeguy99

ThisIsMe;370064 said:


> Huh? More wheel travel? You obviously have never seen a true Hummer or any type of Baja truck.


i am more of a jeep guy myself and i think they are better off road than hummers and jeeps have solid axles. why do you think many people who own lifted trucks that come stock with IFS convert to a solid axle?


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## ThisIsMe

dodgeguy99;370418 said:


> i am more of a jeep guy myself and i think they are better off road than hummers and jeeps have solid axles. why do you think many people who own lifted trucks that come stock with IFS convert to a solid axle?


You are not thinking outside the box. Chevy IFS may suck, many more do not.


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## dodgeguy99

ThisIsMe;370421 said:


> You are not thinking outside the box. Chevy IFS may suck, many more do not.


i am not thinking outside the box huh well you can keep your ifs junk and i will stick with a solid front axle


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## Buster F

I think you fellas may be missing the point. Toyota is a Japanese owened company, regardless of where the truck is built all the profit from sales is being fed back into Japans economy. I surely give them credit for employing American workers but labor is a small percentage of the final cost on a new vehicle. I am not bashing Toyota by any means - i think they build a fine automobile but lets not kid ouselves into thinking Toyota is by any stretch of the imagination an American company


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## ThisIsMe

Buster F;370453 said:


> I think you fellas may be missing the point. Toyota is a Japanese owened company, regardless of where the truck is built all the profit from sales is being fed back into Japans economy. I surely give them credit for employing American workers but labor is a small percentage of the final cost on a new vehicle. I am not bashing Toyota by any means - i think they build a fine automobile but lets not kid ouselves into thinking Toyota is by any stretch of the imagination an American company


Somewhat true. Toyota being a public company is a very internationally owned company though.

I think in 10 years we will not know who owns one company from the next.

Besides Toyota is spending it's profits right here in the US by hiring people, building new plants, etc over here in USA. Does not sound like all the profits are going back. New factories and new employees sounds good for our economy. Not busting on the big three, but them firing people and closing plants cannot be good can it? Then again, is having the Hemi motor made in Mexico good for the USA economy? Pros and cons each way. Let us not even start at what strings that Chrysler pulled to get a vehicle with the motor completely built in another country under the federal law that the vehichle must be 75% built in the US to be called a US made vehicle.


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## jvm81

Is this new toyota considered a 3/4 ton model? How is it comparing to the new Chevy HD? I have also heard from other sources that the toyota will not handle a plow up front? What can you guys tell me.

Brand - well I have have 5 chevy trucks now and I own a Highlander for personal vehicle wife loves it. So I would think about the new Tundra cuz I trade one truck this year.


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## ThisIsMe

I think it is still considered a half-ton payload wise with towing that rivals a 3/4 ton.


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## Joe D

ThisIsMe;374000 said:


> I think it is still considered a half-ton payload wise with towing that rivals a 3/4 ton.


I think all the new 1/2 tons will tow about the same weight. GM will tow 10,500 and Ford and Nissan are right there as well.


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## ThisIsMe

Well this is sad 

My newer 2006 Dodge 2500 can tow 8250lbbs with gas and without the optional rear-end. Toyota can tow 10,100 minimum with the V8. Even with the 4.11 in the 2500 can only do 10,250 lbs while the Toyota can do 10,800lbs max. So it pretty much has Dodge's 3/4 ton gass beat.


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## GLLLC

Buster F;370453 said:


> I think you fellas may be missing the point. Toyota is a Japanese owned company, regardless of where the truck is built all the profit from sales is being fed back into Japans economy. I surely give them credit for employing American workers but labor is a small percentage of the final cost on a new vehicle. I am not bashing Toyota by any means - i think they build a fine automobile but lets not kid ourselves into thinking Toyota is by any stretch of the imagination an American company


It's about time some one said it.


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## Detroitdan

These numbers are just that, numbers that some engineers made up to try to compete with the other manufacturers. It isn't like they increase the load until it won't move anymore, back off 1 lb and call that the max. Any of these trucks will pull rolling weight in excess of 40,000 lbs. That doesn't mean it's safe (or intelligent). And I don't really like the way things are going as far as drastically inflated numbers. I think it's unsafe because too many white collar wannabees are going to be on the road and over their head, weight-wise.
Look at the way the HP numbers have skyrocketed, but at least when the manufacturers lie about those numbers no one's going to get hurt. 
I think Toyota building trucks here is probably just like us building trucks in Canada and Mexico. Cheaper to build them, better bottom line. I'm surprised Japan isn't building everything in Mexico instead of here, they'd save even more. But then they couldnt try to say they are "American Made". I still believe Japan is trying to beat us the only way they can, and that's financially. They already own or are buying everything here anyway. I bet you'd be scared to know how many huge US companies are actually majority controlled by Japan. Not to mention real estate, financial organizations, not to mention the trade in electronics alone. Some day we'll be the United States of Japan, and it won't be by force, but by losing a high stakes game of Monopoly.


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## Detroitdan

At least Toyota failed miserably in their big Nascar debut.


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## SnoFarmer

ThisIsMe;374140 said:


> Well this is sad
> 
> My newer 2006 Dodge 2500 can tow 8250lbbs with gas and without the optional rear-end. Toyota can tow 10,100 minimum with the V8. Even with the 4.11 in the 2500 can only do 10,250 lbs while the Toyota can do 10,800lbs max. So it pretty much has Dodge's 3/4 ton gass beat.


 A properly equipped Dodge 2500 gasser, 2x4, has the towing capacity of 13,400lbs
an 2500,st 4x4 rgeular cab gasser has the towing capacity of 13,650lbs
source Dodge's web page vehicle specifications

How was the toyota equipped?


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## ThisIsMe

Detroitdan;374502 said:


> These numbers are just that, numbers that some engineers made up to try to compete with the other manufacturers. It isn't like they increase the load until it won't move anymore, back off 1 lb and call that the max. Any of these trucks will pull rolling weight in excess of 40,000 lbs. That doesn't mean it's safe (or intelligent). And I don't really like the way things are going as far as drastically inflated numbers. I think it's unsafe because too many white collar wannabees are going to be on the road and over their head, weight-wise.
> Look at the way the HP numbers have skyrocketed, but at least when the manufacturers lie about those numbers no one's going to get hurt.
> I think Toyota building trucks here is probably just like us building trucks in Canada and Mexico. Cheaper to build them, better bottom line. I'm surprised Japan isn't building everything in Mexico instead of here, they'd save even more. But then they couldnt try to say they are "American Made". I still believe Japan is trying to beat us the only way they can, and that's financially. They already own or are buying everything here anyway. I bet you'd be scared to know how many huge US companies are actually majority controlled by Japan. Not to mention real estate, financial organizations, not to mention the trade in electronics alone. Some day we'll be the United States of Japan, and it won't be by force, but by losing a high stakes game of Monopoly.


Good points. I have to ask though. Have you seen the comercials on this things?

PS Was JApan not like a third world country after WW2? I would cringe at the thought of how much our US government owes Japan now.


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## dodgeguy99

Detroitdan;374503 said:


> At least Toyota failed miserably in their big Nascar debut.


i just think that its funny how michael waltrip switched to a toyota and he tried to cheat in qualifying


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## ThisIsMe

SnoFarmer;374508 said:


> A properly equipped Dodge 2500 gasser, 2x4, has the towing capacity of 13,400lbs
> source Dodge's web page vehicle specifications
> 
> How was the toyota equipped?


I seen that 13,000 lbs but I would be damned if I could find the combo of truck that could tow that.

Highest I got was 11,450lbs for a reg cab long bed 2wd with 4.10 gears.

There was only like two combos for the larger V8 toyota for towing if I remember correctly.


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## Detroitdan

One more thing. I wish you soild axle guys would join us in this century. I was right on that "IFS sucks" bandwagon with you, back in 1988. But since then IFS has improved dramatically, while SFA hasn't changed a bit. Face it, it's outdated technology. My sister has an Excursion, a great big luxury SUV, and I can't believe the antiquated driveline and suspension under it. Not only SFA, but manual hubs and leaf springs in front!!!??? Give me a break. If you want to talk strength, how's this: I had an 89 Chevy 1500 go almost 200k before I sold it, lifted and wheeled and never lost a front axle. My 97 3500 carries an 810 and a diesel on oversize tires, 155k on original balljoints and front axles. Ford still doesn't even know how to make a balljoint. I haven't ever seen barely any front CV axle failures on GMs, but in my SFA days I busted plenty of front axles, ring gears and u-joints. I replaced front axle u-joints every year on my Dana 44hd plow trucks. So, in my experience the IFS is far stronger. Maybe not moreso than a built Dana 60, but I'll put it up against any SFA available now. You guys gotta stop repeating what you heard back in the 80s before the IFS proved itself. I gotta wonder how long you guys were saying that bias ply tires were still better than them new-fangled radial tires. You think that just because GM has a superior ride that it must not be strong.


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## SnoFarmer

Detroitdan;374523 said:


> One more thing. I wish you soild axle guys would join us in this century.QUOTE]
> 
> http://www.off-road.com/toyota/questions/2003_12/index.html
> Question: I have a 1992, with the 22re, I would like a straight axel, but I've heard different, like independent climbs better. Can you please clear up the myths and tell me if I should get a straight axel?
> 
> Thanks, Jordan
> 
> Answer: It really depends on what you plan to do with your truck. If your just driving down fire roads the factory IFS does a great job and gives a better ride than than a solid axle. If your looking to run hard rock trails, the solid axle is going to server you far better. Here is what I recommend for those that don't know what they want. The IFS is a far weaker setup with smaller R&P gears, fewer locker choices, weak axle shafts and Idler arms problems. Personally I have found the IFS works well with up to 33" tires. If your looking to go larger than that, consider switching over to a solid axle.
> 
> Ask yourself if the IFS is doing the job. If your not having problems like broken shafts, gears and idler arms then the IFS setup may be fine for you. On my 1994 4Runner I bent and damaged 3 axle shafts and 6 idler arms before seeking out a


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## Detroitdan

My R&P is probably larger than a Toyotas. And I'm not into rock crawling, too scary. Okay, I will concede this: a SFA is better for extreme wheeling and extreme lifts. And the problem with IFS and big lifts is the angles getting out of their optimum functional range. For street driving, mild offroad and work, (such as plowing), I think the IFS is more than strong enough, and with the far superior ride there is no reason I'd ever switch back to a SFA. Heck, the new IFS Chevy 3500 can pull a train, didn't you see the commercial? 
I've driven my sister's Excursion and I test drove an 07 Suburban. They aren't even in the same league. I have an 04 Avalanche 1500 and my work has an 06 Expedition, again, no comparison in ride quality. Fords 1/2 ton ride has gotten better though, especially since they installed the GM style frontend. Which by the way Chevy is already replacing with an improved design. Their IFS is after all a twenty year old design.


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## Mark Oomkes

Buster F;370453 said:


> I surely give them credit for employing American workers but _labor is a small percentage _of the final cost on a new vehicle.


Might want to tell the 'Big 3' that. Funny how their first cost cutting measures are always layoffs. Maybe you have some stats to back this up?

I've said it before, the whole Buy American car thing is just BS spewed by the UAW trying to make people believe that they are supporting American workers only. Why don't you do try to find out how many stockholders in Ford and GM are non-US citizens? How many stockholders in Toyota, Honda, DC, etc are Americans. Until you answer these questions, this is all just another attempt at class envy. A bunch of liberals trying to get us angry that the money is going some place other than America. Better start checking labels on everything you buy from Walmart before *****ing about where you're getting your cars from. Better stop buying gas as well, most of it is made in the MidEast. It's a global economy people, might want to move into the 21st century along with the IFS guys.

If the Big 3 really want to compete, start building quality vehicles that people want instead of making truck buyers the Alpha testers for a POS engine and tranny that fall apart in the middle of the winter when we really need them. IT's called competition and it works every time it's tried.


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## ThisIsMe

Detroitdan;374523 said:


> One more thing. I wish you soild axle guys would join us in this century. I was right on that "IFS sucks" bandwagon with you, back in 1988. But since then IFS has improved dramatically, while SFA hasn't changed a bit.


I am just glad none of these IFS sucks people worked for militray development. For if they had we would of lost out on one of the greatest IFS supensions ever made in the HUMVEE.


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## ThisIsMe

_""I surely give them credit for employing American workers but labor is a small percentage of the final cost on a new vehicle."""_

Ya that is why the Walmart sends everything over to China.

That is why the Dodge Hemi is made in Mexico. Nothing to do with labor costs at all.
LOL

That is why Chrysler just laid off 13,000 people. They should of listened to you instead.


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## Detroitdan

I hate when it's pointed out to me that my red, white and blue proud to be an American vehicle is made outside the country. Stop doing that, let me live in ignorance. Darrell Waltrip kept pointing out that the Camry was the only car in the 500 that is made in the US. If I were going to buy something based solely on where it's actually assembled, then what kind of buffoon would I be? I buy vehicles because I like how they look, ride, work and last. Period.
BTW, the Camry didn't make a very good showing last week. I wonder if they are going to redouble their efforts to compete or just bomb Pearl Harbor. I hope they don't start hiring Kamikaze drivers. Here's an idea: let's have a real stock car race! top drivers in bone stock cars with only the necessary safety equipment. Don't even let them open the hood. Then let's see which stock car is the best. Of course the Charger with the V8 would run away, but a V6 Charger against all the other V6s would make for a fun day. I'd bet on the Monte Carlo SS.


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## Flipper

I thought the Camrys did pretty well for there first start. None of them retired with mechanical problems and one at least finished in the top 20. I don't think Dodge did that well when they returned to racing.


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## ThisIsMe

Detroitdan;374731 said:


> I hate when it's pointed out to me that my red, white and blue proud to be an American vehicle is made outside the country. Stop doing that, let me live in ignorance. Darrell Waltrip kept pointing out that the Camry was the only car in the 500 that is made in the US. If I were going to buy something based solely on where it's actually assembled, then what kind of buffoon would I be? I buy vehicles because I like how they look, ride, work and last. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> And that is the way it should be. .
> 
> Unless you feel some reason to help assist the poor Mexicans. Then buy American.
Click to expand...


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## Detroitdan

I didn't think they did that well. Any top 20 finish would be due to ten cars ahead of it wrecking out. And most of the cars out were better qualifiers and contenders than the Toyotas were. Heck, there were guys that finished in the top ten that wouldn't have finished up front if not for so many good cars being wrecked.
But, I'm sure they will come back and start winning races. They've got the same cars as everyone else, there is no significant differences in the way these cars are constructed, and once they go to the Car of Tomorrow they will all be the same anyway. But what a humiliating speed weeks for them. I wonder how many Toyota execs back in Japan comitted Hari-Kari?


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## ThisIsMe

Found this much on the web. A comparasion of the 1/2 tons towing. Should help us.


Big V8's....Tundra...Silverado...Sierra...F150...Ram...Titan 
2WD Vehicles 
RC Std Bed... 10400...8200...8200...8500,,,9100... Not Avail 
RC Long Bed.. 10800...8000...8000...11000...8900...Not Avail 
DC Std Bed.... 10600...7700...10300...9500...8700...9500 
DC Long Bed.. 10500...7500...7500...9500...8550...Not Avail 
Crew Sht Bed. 10400...7600...10200...9500...8600...9400 

4WD Vehicles 
RC Std Bed... 10100...8900...8900...8200...8800...Not Avail 
RC Long Bed.. 10500...8900...8900...9500...8650...Not Avail 
DC Std Bed.... 10300...8500...10500...9300...8500...9500 
DC Long Bed.. 10200...8300...8300...9300...8250...Not Avail 
Crew Sht Bed. 10100...8500...10500...9200...8300...9400


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## Detroitdan

The new Silverado 1500 is advertised as having 10,500 towing. How come among those numbers there is one F150 with a really high 11,000, and all other F150s are low? Also, how come the Silverado and Sierra are so far apart in number some of the time?


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## ThisIsMe

Detroitdan;374773 said:


> The new Silverado 1500 is advertised as having 10,500 towing. How come among those numbers there is one F150 with a really high 11,000, and all other F150s are low? Also, how come the Silverado and Sierra are so far apart in number some of the time?


The hell if I know. Please do not shoot the messenger. 

It came from Edmunds.

Heck I have a hard enough time trying to figure out what my few trucks can legally tow let alone the entire market.


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## SnoFarmer

ThisIsMe;374711 said:


> I am just glad none of these IFS sucks people worked for militray development. For if they had we would of lost out on one of the greatest IFS supensions ever made in the HUMVEE.


Have you ever ridden in a Humvee?

There as stiff as he!!. The ride su#ks.
Until they load them down with a couple thousand pounds.
The ifs is huge on them nothing like a consumer light duty truck.
They had problems in development as they would roll over to easily so they put really stiff springs in them.

Toyota and others use ifs it there trucks for ride quality. 
Thats whet there customers want.

There not real work trucks I know this is not what you hear in the commercials.
Look at the front (axle) weight rating of the IFS.


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## Mark Oomkes

You make a great point, SF. My Expedition has IFS and coils and I think it rides like crap, I know I need new shocks, but it does not have a good firm feel that a truck should have. After all, I think it is still technically a truck, but who knows nowadays. 

Look at everything else that has already been 'dumbed' down on our 'work' trucks to the point that they're glorified work trucks because every idiot out there thinks they need a truck for hauling something twice a year from Home Cheapo and throwing their groceries in.


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## ThisIsMe

SnoFarmer;374797 said:


> Have you ever ridden in a Humvee?
> 
> There as stiff as he!!. The ride su#ks.
> Until they load them down with a couple thousand pounds.
> The ifs is huge on them nothing like a consumer light duty truck.
> They had problems in development as they would roll over to easily so they put really stiff springs in them.
> 
> Toyota and others use ifs it there trucks for ride quality.
> Thats whet there customers want.
> 
> There not real work trucks I know this is not what you hear in the commercials.
> Look at the front (axle) weight rating of the IFS.


Yep, Rode in them for almost 6 long years. Ride is not that bad, it is the seats that suck. Scrap some seats from the CUVEEs like many did and it was a pretty nice riding truck. I would say on par or close to what I am driving today. IT was a rumor in the military that the useless seats in the truck were a result for field testing. The HUMVEE was riding so well so well that soilders test driving the thing were driving too fast, hence the sub-par seats, to slow them down. I seriously have no reason to doubt that.

Not sure how they are huge. No real numbers to look at, but with the ground clearance they provided, I would say they are smaller in some regards.

I wonder why it is so hard to find the specs on the IFS in the Tundra. Maybe they are not proud of the specs.  If you have the specs on the front axle please share, searching the internet for such has proven fruitless.


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## SnoFarmer

ThisIsMe;374734 said:


> Detroitdan;374731 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you feel some reason to help assist the poor Mexicans. Then buy American.
> 
> 
> 
> At least Mexico is our neighbor. Japan is not our friend.
> What about all of the vehicles that are made in Canada?
> 
> I have a Mexican Dodge and one St Louis Dodge.
> There are only Two differences in the build.
> 
> 1. The St,Louis truck is assembled better the fenders and hood line up perfectly.
> there a little off on the mexi rig.
> 
> 2. The mexi truck has made in Mexico tags all over the under carriage.
> 
> When Toyota finely brings there full size 3/4 and 1ton 4x4 trucks to our market then we will have some thing to compare them to until then we are comparing apples to oranges.
Click to expand...


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## ThisIsMe

SnoFarmer;374812 said:


> ThisIsMe;374734 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Toyota finely brings there full size 3/4 and 1ton 4x4 trucks to our market then we will have some thing to compare them to until then we are comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I agree 100% on that. Problem is that day is coming soon. I just think it is time for the big 3 to wake up. Sleep now and Ford, Dodge, Chevy trucks will be nothing more but a side-note in our grandkids history books.
> 
> I would rather see more jobs in the US then in Mexico. Not sure how Toyota creating jobs in the US and Dodge sending jobs to Mexico means that Japan is not our friend. With that thinking Dodge is the enemy.
> 
> As far as Canada, I thought they were still part of the US. Or did they finally become their own country.
> 
> PS Flame suit on for the Canada comment.
Click to expand...


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## SnoFarmer

ThisIsMe;374815
I would rather see more jobs in the US then in Mexico. Not sure how Toyota creating jobs in the US and Dodge sending jobs to Mexico means that Japan is not our friend. With that thinking Dodge is the enemy.
As far as Canada said:


> After WWII we forgave Japans war debt.
> Then we played a major role in rebuilding there country and economy.
> 
> Just so they could flood our shelves with there products.
> They may be friends of our country but they were not friends of our economy.
> 
> Jmo..
> 
> P.S.Canada exists at our leisure. With out the U.S. they would be part of Mexico...
> Maybe I should be quite as the Canadian border is only a 100+ miles up the road.........


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## ThisIsMe

SnoFarmer;374831 said:


> After WWII we forgave Japans war debt.
> Then we played a major role in rebuilding there country and economy.
> 
> Just so they could flood our shelves with there products.
> They may be friends of our country but they were not friends of our economy.


I say the same things about Iraq. We rebuild the economy only to be buying cars and product from them in 20-30 years.


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## Mark Oomkes

ThisIsMe;374842 said:


> I say the same things about Iraq. We rebuild the economy only to be buying cars and product from them in 20-30 years.


Psssst, we're already buying oil from them.


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## ThisIsMe

Mark Oomkes;374846 said:


> Psssst, we're already buying oil from them.


Better yet, did you hear about the USA sending over $12bil in $100 bills to Iraq. The US government has no idea what happened to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I heard the shipment of $12bil in cash weighed 366tons .

Nice to give away so much cash they you weigh it instead of count it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2008189,00.html


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## 2500hdFisher

Lets see toyota put a diesel under the hood and some dual rear wheel options then maybe well consider them a true work truck. I know its only a matter of time if they popped a diesel under the hood and i could have my fisher 8ft on the front id sure plow a storm with it 30+ driveways and see how it does. they could put a diesel in it now dodge is planning on putting the cummins in the 1500's for 2009 i read that the other day on turbo diesel registry. for now it just doesnt make sense to see them on jobsites as you cant make them a cab and chassis or service body and you cant get the torque of the PSD the Cummins or Duramax. try haulin a loaded service body around on a tundra your rear end would sag wesport. Toyota is making waves though in the truck market but i just wont believe it until i see it first hand.


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## the_experience

Ok, time for a newbie who doesn't even plow, save for with an ATV, to respond. 

I have owned one of just about everything (my age group is notoriously hard on notoriously cheap vehicles), but my favorite thus far has been Toyota.

My current rig:

1993 Toyota short box, std. cab
22re (in the process of a rebuild-up)
W56 5 speed
RF1A gear driven t-case
3 inch P.A. body lift (firewall clearance)

Rear end:
stock 8 inch with a welded and open third member (swap depending on season)
63 inch rear springs from a 1988 Chevy 2wd
3 inch blocks
6 inch eye-to-eye unbraced shackles
Custom shock mounts, ES9000 shocks (8 inch lift Chevy application, 14 inches travel

Front end:
1984 8 inch solid front axle, trussed and rebuild
Sky Offroad Stage 5 high steer with 1.25 inch .25 wall DOM tubes, FJ-80 rod ends
FJ-40 rotors
4 piston V-6 calipers (BIG!)
a pair of 1.5 inch All Pro Offroad billet wheel spacers to even track width
51 inch hybrid front springs (6 leafs based on stock rear springs)
Sky Offroad 44044 full width axle hanger kit (modified)
Wide body boomerang shackles (modified)
F-250 shock towers, ES9000 shocks (8 inch lift Chevy application, 14 inches travel)
34x10.5x15 Super Swamper LTB's (until they burn up and I get a set of Q78-15 TSL's)

Ok...I have seen both sides of the IFS fence on the same rig so maybe I can clear some things up. I wheeled with IFS for years and really liked it. It was tough and with proper driving technique, it was quite capable. I finally lost a CV joint in an ice storm 2 years ago on Highway 2 between Grand Rapids and Duluth pulling a Ford Explorer out during an ice storm (Christmas City of the North weekend....some might remember). I melted through the ice while spinning and when that Swamper caught traction, I had CV balls all over the ground. I decided to upgrade at that point.

The solid front axle has proven to be stronger and has far more articulation. Please don't confuse wheel travel with articulation as wheel travel is at an individual side while articulation factors in both axles and both tires. Coincidently I also have more wheel travel now than stock. My suspension is far better suited for offroad use and is cheaper to maintain. However, it is also FAR less highway friendly. 

Let's break things down a little. Toyota was the last company to give up on gear driven transfer cases keeping them until 1995 in the US while the last gear driven domestic t-case was in a 1993 crew cab Chevy. 

The Toyota 8 inch solid axle versus the Dana 44....The Toyota axle actually has a larger minor spline diameter (the narrowest part of the axle) than a Dana 44, including the units used in 3/4 ton trucks. Toyotas are also 30 spline, the same as the Dana 44. The Dana 44 has the advantage in that it uses cheap u-joints versus the birfield style CV joints in the Toyota. It also has thicker tubing (.50 inch in the 3/4 ton version). However, the Toyota has factory trusses. For $650 you can get Longfield Super Axles which test out HIGHER than a 35 spline Dana 60 in terms of strength. Have you priced out alloy axles and CTM u-joints for a Dana 44 lately? That leaves the only weak link being the smaller ping and pinion size of the Toyota axle. Given the minitruck versus 3/4 ton comparison, I can live with that.

Now lets look at my suspension. I went with the fullsize half ton springs from a Chevy truck because they're SOFTER. The rear springs up front was out of convenience and they are custom for ride and flex anyway.

Long story short, my truck is a hodge podge of parts put together for the application.

As far as the new Tundra is concerned, it out specs most domestic combinations. It is powerful, has a huge rear axle (10.5 inches....same as a many 3/4 and 1 tons). It has a 6 speed transmission giving more gearing options. It has an engine rated at 381 hp and 401 ft lbs of torque at an un-toyotalike low RPM range. These are SAE figures and not fudged. When Toyota wanted to size up dealership garages for the new truck they used a 3/4 Super Duty. The thing is HUGE.

So what are its faults? Well, it's unproven. No one knows anything about it. Every part of the truck is new technology. Sure, it is based on some previous work (things like the t-case), but it is all new. However, everything seems to be in order for this to be a great truck.

Unfortunately there are some previously existing stereotypes. The old Tundra was esaily outgunned by the big 3. It has a small V-8 that competed well with other small V-8's, but there was no upgrade option, save for the $$$ TRD supercharger. It also used many other smaller parts like differentials that were close relatives of my mini truck's stock 8 inch rear and 7.5 inch IFS front. Simply put, it was not a work truck.

Ownership of contemporary companies is as clear as mud. Dodge-Chysler is owned by Daimler who is trying to get rid of them. General Motors operates more makes outside the US than in the US and is currently planning to outsource engineering to various contries where it makes sense. Trucks will be of US design. Small fuel efficient cars will come from Opel in Europe. Sporty cars will come from Holden in Australia. Holden...there's a fine example. It is a US company that owns an Australian company that outsources production of it's vehicles to Isuzu, an Asian company owned in part by General Motors  My Toyota truck rolled off the a joint GM-Toyota assembly line in California and has many GM stamped part in it. Let's face it...buy American is dead.

The long and short of it is that time will tell how the new Tundra will hold up. With the global markets as they are you can find fault in any company's policies pertaining to workforce, parts sourcing, etc. Buy what you want while trying to keep your fellow American in the back of your mind.

If I were looking to do a lot of heavy plowing, I would look for a domestic 3/4 or 1 ton. If I was looking to do some smaller jobs and have a vehicle that was usable as a daily driver the rest of the year, I would look to Toyota.

Let the flaming begin. :angry: :angry: :angry:


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## Detroitdan

the_experience;379055 said:


> Let the flaming begin. :angry: :angry: :angry:


No flaming. Can't argue with any of that. I like to think I'm red, white, and blue, buy American (Chevy, of course) but it's true, the market has been globalized. GM and everyone else has gone to where it's cheaper to manufacture. Toyota is mostly here because of the import tariffs, plus they have no land to use at home. I for one do not doubt that Toyota is going to break into the fullsize pickup market in a big way. There is no reason they can't design a quality vehicle that can perform the same tasks as a Chevy or a Dodge, or a Ford. They have proven they can design efficient motors that last. They have always had huge part of the little car market, and in recent years the larger car market. WHen they decided to compete with the small pickups look what happened. I love S-10s, but face it the don't measure up to a Tacoma. 
The only thing that will help the big 3 is brand loyalty, people like me who just prefer a Chevy no matter what someone else builds. There are lots of us left who will refuse to buy a Toyota 3/4 ton diesel "just because". Even though it will probably turn out to be a better quality truck.


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## Frozen001

Detroitdan;379083 said:


> Even though it will probably turn out to be a better quality truck.


You know I for one am really tired of hearing the the domestic company lack in quality... MY GMC hs had not one problem to date, and I have not been easy on the truck.... no squeeks, no knocks, nothing falling off... It has had a pretty rough life since I bought it new in October of 2004, and I am totally happy with the quality of this truck. The domestics are always criticized by the media for poor build quality. Sure there are always bumps along the way when new technologies, drivetrains, etc. are introduced. Ford has had probels with it's new diesels, and transmissions, GM has gone through the piston slap, etc... but if you actually count how many trucks are trouble free compared to the trucks that have problems, I am sure the quality of the domestics is far better than the media lets on. After all you almost never hear people say that their vehicls has not had any problems in the media.. it is always the problems that are mentioned the loudest


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## Detroitdan

For the record, I didn't say anything about GM or domestics having poor quality (although I believe Fords have do). What I said is Toyota will probably be better. I'm basing that statement on the well-known fact that they are famous for building high mileage motors and drivelines. So all they have to do is learn to galvanize the sheetmetal (I assume they already have), build heavier frames and beefier suspension, and there, they're done.
Also, I recently saw my old Chevy work truck, still on the road busting it's a$$ everyday, it now has 315k miles on the clock.


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## the_experience

Domestic automakers have really stepped up the quality in the last 6-7 years. I think the new GM cars are every bit as good at initial quliaty as anything else out there. What hurt them was years of only average quality, piston slapping, plastic solenoids in transmissions (I pray none of you own a 2000-2004ish Grand Prix), etc. I think the domestic carmakers really really have stepped it up which is great. Perhaps The fact that Toyota is only second to GM in sales now woke them up a bit. Like I said...buy what you want. It's your $35,000+ and there is no right or wrong answer as to what is best for America's economy anymore.


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## dodgeguy99

i agree with frozen001 everybody thinks that toyotas are better at everything and that domestics are horrible the only real problem i have had with my truck is the tranny which is on its lasts legs now at 145,000 and i am not easy on this truck i work it hard day in and day out and it keeps on going it still runs like new except for the tranny.


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## Frozen001

dodgeguy99;381373 said:


> i agree with frozen001 everybody thinks that toyotas are better at everything and that domestics are horrible the only real problem i have had with my truck is the tranny which is on its lasts legs now at 145,000 and i am not easy on this truck i work it hard day in and day out and it keeps on going it still runs like new except for the tranny.


It is all because the media consistently will praise every thing but the domestics...and most americans being the lemmings that they are believe it...


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## LHK2

Has anyone heard that toyota's are getting cat diesel moters. Just like in the picture on the trailer, whats the truck pulling on the trailer, a cat skid. Girl you know it's true, Toyota going to in kahuts, with you know who.


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## Detroitdan

I was a little surprised to see Cat sponsoring one of the new Nextel Cup Camrys. I wonder...


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## AbsoluteH&L

*Worthy?*

I know more than a few Toyotas that have had the crap beat out of them and still come back for more. A 7.5 Snoway on an old strait axle Toy that pushed more snow than you would think possible. They make a good truck, and they are only getting better.
Don't get me wrong, I love the big 3, and have owned them all. Toyotas not just a luxury harry-homeowner truck anymore!


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## Joe D

Things like this don't help you when your trying to take over the truck market


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## JD Dave

Joe D;418916 said:


> Things like this don't help you when your trying to take over the truck market


Good vid. I couldn't believe the bed on the Toyota.


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## Joe D

JD Dave;418949 said:


> Good vid. I couldn't believe the bed on the Toyota.






This is another godd example of frame tech at Yota


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## 2500Hemi

I drove my Buddy's brand new tundra loaded. It was nice looking and had a nice soft ride and was also very torquey but....it was also very chopy as far as shifting IMO and it didn't feel like i was driving a truck. When I jumped back in my 07 2500 it felt more like a truck, but it is rougher on the bumps. I also think that my truck shifted a lot smoother. we own 3 brands of vehicles and i was considering a Toyota because of their great resale value so as far as brand loyalty I don't really care.


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## Merc1100sc

JD Dave;418949 said:


> Good vid. I couldn't believe the bed on the Toyota.


The bed on that yota looks like a fat chick doing the "rump shaker"

I just picked up a 99 tacoma due to the good gas mileage to drive to my new job which is a ways away. however, i've always and still am die hard chevy. cant beat em for a true work truck IMO. anyhow, i saw this and thought it was funny.


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## JD Dave

Merc1100sc;430365 said:


> The bed on that yota looks like a fat chick doing the "rump shaker"
> 
> I just picked up a 99 tacoma due to the good gas mileage to drive to my new job which is a ways away. however, i've always and still am die hard chevy. cant beat em for a true work truck IMO. anyhow, i saw this and thought it was funny.


If your going to the races, you might as well go in style. LOL The toyo's do look good IMO.


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## Stud Bro

REAL TRUCKS DON'T HAVE SPARK PLUGS 

I REST MY CASE

Until Toyota gets a Diesel its just another grocery getter


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## TRUCK CHAMPION

LHK2;385076 said:


> Has anyone heard that toyota's are getting cat diesel moters. Just like in the picture on the trailer, whats the truck pulling on the trailer, a cat skid. Girl you know it's true, Toyota going to in kahuts, with you know who.


There were talks about that last year but after alot of research I think what you will see from Toyota in the future is a 3/4 ton Hilux diesel. Toyota owns Hilux and they already have a very proven diesel. More than likely you will be seeing a 6 Cyl. diesel HYBRID. With the combination of electric motors which reach their peak torque at 1 RPM and the torque from the diesel you should have something that gets really good mileage and has enough torque to pull a house off its foundation.


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## TRUCK CHAMPION

Frozen001;379099 said:


> You know I for one am really tired of hearing the the domestic company lack in quality... MY GMC hs had not one problem to date, and I have not been easy on the truck.... no squeeks, no knocks, nothing falling off... It has had a pretty rough life since I bought it new in October of 2004, and I am totally happy with the quality of this truck. The domestics are always criticized by the media for poor build quality. Sure there are always bumps along the way when new technologies, drivetrains, etc. are introduced. Ford has had probels with it's new diesels, and transmissions, GM has gone through the piston slap, etc... but if you actually count how many trucks are trouble free compared to the trucks that have problems, I am sure the quality of the domestics is far better than the media lets on. After all you almost never hear people say that their vehicls has not had any problems in the media.. it is always the problems that are mentioned the loudest


Being new here the part that I don't get is we have alot of guys in here boasting about their domestic truck but if you go in their forums 7 out of 10 topics are related to mechanical issues. As far as the media comment Toyota is under the microscope way more than any domestic. If Toyota has a problem with 22 of 25000 (less than 1%) sold units it makes national news.


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## firstclasslawn

empty trailer!


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## Stuffdeer

I can't believe this thread is still floating around.

It makes me feel warm and cuddly inside.

haha


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