# Tranny (2nd gear) is gone !



## maximus44 (Nov 28, 2006)

Hi guys,I have a 98 Dodge 3500 diesel,dually with a Cummins in it.
I took it to Mr.Transmission and they told me that 2nd gear is gone.
They might just need to replace a band,or they might need to do a re-build!!
Should I let them rebuild the torque converter too(dont know if this is really necessary,or they just want the extra cash)?
Secondly,do you guys think that I should install a "shift kit" to improve shifting?


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## diehrd (Dec 11, 2006)

What tranny is in it ? AND always get a new torque converter when rebuilding a tranny ALSO INSIST the cooling lines and cooler are FLUSHED prior to install of new tranny..


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## maximus44 (Nov 28, 2006)

The tranny is a 3 speed aotomatic,with an overdrive.
I should get a new torque converter?
What can go wrong if i dont?tymusic


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## diehrd (Dec 11, 2006)

I am guessing you went there because you had a tranny problem ? Or did you show up for a fluid change and where told ya had no second gear ? 

And the T/C can deposit small shavings into the new transmission...causing valve body sticking and premature failure of hard parts in the unit it self..DON'T skimp..And the bull crap ya need a band is usually a set up statement..The old Chrysler units and some Ford trannies could have a band issue where the servo that applies it cracks,or the band it self breaks..BUT with out knowing what series unit you have I am doubting that is your issue..


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## sweetk30 (Sep 3, 2006)

dont let them half a$$ reman it with just a band or clutch pack.

do a full reman job with reman or new convotor. and flush all lines and coolers.

if you realy like the truck and plan to keep it and run it for what its built for and that motor will put out. i rec a reman tranny form a shop that sells those hop up parts for oil burnnin trucks. thay now the week points much better than std tranny shops. also there convrtors and built with multiply clutches and forged hubs in the housing. this all makes 200-300 more holding capacity in over drive. stock only have 1 disc in there. it dont take much to burn it up.

this might cost a few more bucks but if it were me i would do it and never realy think about it again.

this is some good info and just a place to start. http://www.bd-power.com/ram/product.php?pn=Transmission Kit&tt=ram

also try www.towrig.com for some good info on the oil burnner trucks.


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## DBL (Aug 27, 2005)

get a second opinion before someone tells you you need a new trans and you may also get a cheaper estimate out of it


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## fatboy (Dec 6, 2006)

*Trans*

maximus, were are you in T.O. I know of a great tranny shop in Scarbough that do alot of work on Dodge cummins trucks If you like I can give you there name and number, they'll do a good job for you.

tymusic


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## fatboy (Dec 6, 2006)

By the way, I had a real bad experiance with a Mr T shop once, NEVER again!


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

maximus44;349244 said:


> The tranny is a 3 speed aotomatic,with an overdrive.
> I should get a new torque converter?
> What can go wrong if i dont?tymusic


Get a new one. If they say they are going to rebuild it there full of SH!T!!
You/they do not rebuild them.....

The fluid it the converter can be contaminated, The converter can be damaged by the junk in the fluid and the heat generated from a failing tranny.
Cost, how much is it going to cost you to replace the converter after you have a new tranny installed and then it goes bad possibly taking the new tranny with it.


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## maximus44 (Nov 28, 2006)

Thanks "Fatboy",I'm in woodbridge,and have no problem going to Scar...
Even have soft body armour,lol
feel free to call me at (416)606-3244 thanks


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## WetChicken (Dec 23, 2006)

Unless you have nothing but good recommendations, I wouldn't go to a chain tranny shop. Find a good hole in the wall mom and pop place that has been there for years and years. They aren't stuck with quotas and minimum sales.

A second quote is a good idea as someone mentioned above.


Jason


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## wagonman76 (Jan 31, 2005)

DBL;349361 said:


> get a second opinion before someone tells you you need a new trans and you may also get a cheaper estimate out of it


Indeed. Get a second opinion.

Did they confirm 2nd is mechanically gone? If it is an electronically controlled transmission, then it might be just a bad solenoid or wiring.

For example, I picked up a Trans Sport van and I was told the transmission was on its way out. Not a biggie since I can work on cars. Sometimes it would lose 4th gear and the torque converter clutch, and sometimes it would slip or shudder. Turned out it was just bad wiring connections to the solenoids. After fixing that it works much better, and Ive also towed my travel trailer 1600 miles with it since then and no problems.

Also about 10 years ago with the 6000, the torque converter kept kicking in and out constantly. A GM trans shop told me I needed a new torque converter clutch solenoid, a $400 job by them. I said Ill think about it. Turned out it was the thermostat, stuck open it ran cool and kept kicking in and out of warmup mode. $6 later it was perfectly fine.


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## maximus44 (Nov 28, 2006)

I've got a place in mind like that,but after talking to AAMCO,they did a pretty good job of telling me how they're gonna update parts inside the tranny,and use bigger valve bodies.
Seems like the more I look into it, the harder it is to make a decission as to who I should take it to.
I got a price of $1700 from the old "mom and pop" guy. this includes a "new" torque converter.
and shift kit. I got a price of $2,500 from MR TRANSMISSION,and 2 different prices from AAMCO.
What you guys think?tymusic


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## maximus44 (Nov 28, 2006)

Oh,and btw,Mr Transmission sis hook it up to their diagnostic which told them that 2nd gear was not holding.


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

maximus44;349701 said:


> Oh,and btw,Mr Transmission sis hook it up to their diagnostic which told them that 2nd gear was not holding.


If that is all they did to test it, that right there should be all you need NOT to use them.

One thing you never mentioned. How does the truck drive?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Did you notice a problem with 2nd gear? I would hope you would have noticed something wrong.

I don't know on a '98, but on the older trannies if you lost 2nd you also lost 3rd. This might be different on electronic trannies, though. 

I'm with the rest, get a complete rebuild and new torque convertor. Definitely add a shift kit and anything else that will make it stronger if you are keeping this truck for any length of time.


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## diehrd (Dec 11, 2006)

AAMCO any one know what that stands for ? 

A= All
A= Automatics
M= Must
C= Come 
O= Out 

I was with a direct competor,,Lee Myles,,years ago..The founder of Lee Myles was an Ex corporate executive from aamco ...There company philosophy and name sake is based exactly on what I have shown above.

Usually There re-builders are top notch BUT to know which AAMCO has top notch builders call the local BBB see which one has the least complaints  .

There is no joke with a trany, It is a difficult purchases because there are so many moving parts that MUST make a 100% seal and so many tolerances that have to be checked and or made to work within certain limits.. 

Usually a tranny with a bad second will have a bad 4th or a bad reverse..Depends on the tranny type..YOU HAVE yet to say what brought you to a tranny shop to begin with  and you have not told us what tranny is in the truck..

Jasco Rebuilds are top notch by the way .. And there pre-tested before there shipped..


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## maximus44 (Nov 28, 2006)

I think the tranny is a 47RE.
Here's what happens: from a stand still,if I accelerate slowly,the tranny usually shifts ok,but when I accelerate harder,the tranny stays in first. I can get it to shift if i come off the gas,shift neutral ,then back into drive.
all the other gears are fine,reverse is fine too
Thoughts ?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

It isn't the band. If the band was shot, you'd never get it into 2nd gear no matter what. I don't think you'd get out of first gear.

I actually had decent luck with a Jasper on one of my trucks. Won't do it again, but it lasted longer than any of the ones my dealer rebuilt\replaced.


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## diehrd (Dec 11, 2006)

Have it checked for codes,and they can also look at the data while it's on the scanner.

Sounds like you may have an internal leak,or maybe the gov solenoid or pressure transducer is bad.They can also become plugged with clutch fuzz.

Some good diagnosis with a pressure gauge would help.Try to find a reputable trans shop who knows what to look for,and will spend the time to diagnose it without selling you a rebuild.

I googled that unit and came up with above post,,makes a lot of sense...Have it checked


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## wagonman76 (Jan 31, 2005)

You have 2nd sometimes, and predictably, so its not gone.

It could be a pressure problem like just described.

Or it could be a bad throttle position sensor, telling the computer that youre pushing on the gas more than you really are and not letting it upshift unless you stay light on the gas. Or if the transmission uses a TV cable, it could be that is out of adjustment. It does the same thing, defines the shift points based on throttle.

2nd opinion for sure from a thorough and reputable shop.


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## maximus44 (Nov 28, 2006)

Had 4 others look at it,including a Dodge dealer.
They all say the same thing.
Dealer wants $3500 and same warranty as the guy for $1700.
Think I should take a chance on the "mom/pop" guy?
Warranty is 12months or 20klm(12,000miles)tymusic


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## diehrd (Dec 11, 2006)

Did ANY of them put a pressure gauge on the unit and run the truck on the lift ? ?? ? 

I bet not..If you have a solid second under light throttle,,meaning it does not slip into it and it does not slip out of second then it is a more likely a control issue not an internal failure..

Can the truck be put in drive 2 > Or second > can you manually shift from low 1 to 2 then to drive then to over drive with the selector column ? ? ? If you can start in low 1 manually shift into low 2 and while in low 2 at approx 25 mph stomp the throttle to see if low 2 holds..If it does I bet it is exactly the issue I posted ....

Also get to road speed of 40 mph and punch it see if it down shifts to second gear i bet it does,,and if it does hold second gear through my road test procedure you have a control issue..I use to operate a transmission shop and can't tell ya how many times we got cars 5 people said needed a tranny and in fact needed something a lot less then an overhaul..

My sisters car a 99 Dodge Stratus,,she was told she needed a tranny by 3 shops,,I checked it and It ended up being the speed sensor and cam sensor..Total repairs 175.00 and that was over a year ago..


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## maximus44 (Nov 28, 2006)

Hi guys. First of all,I would like to thank all of you who replied to this thread.
Your information proved to be invaluable.
I took the truck to another DODGE dealership,told then nothing ,but what was happening.
They are presently testing all of the components in the tranny. They also told me that the tranny in there is pretty tough,and that its unlikely that I need an overhaul based on the symptoms.
I'm gonna know in the morning as to what they find.
OH<almost forgot: I told them that I was on this site and how informative it was/is.And that I better not get f354ked around because you guys know your stuff.
They agreed.
Well,got my fingers crossed.
THANKS AGAIN TO YOU GUYS !!!!tymusic


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

For a 1998 dodge diesel 1ton to not have any tranny problems before this, you are one of the lucky ones. Or you only use it for a car.


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## maximus44 (Nov 28, 2006)

Hi all,
Well.......,got the phone call from the dealership.
I DONT NEED A NEW TRANNY!!!
Bet you guys are surprised,lol.
So,you guys just saved me about $1,000.
Thanks again guys!tymusic


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## diehrd (Dec 11, 2006)

I am totally NOT surprised..Read thread lol..Any way what did they say was wrong with it ?


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## diehrd (Dec 11, 2006)

BUMP....so what was wrong with tranny ? we all posted in hopes of helping , so spill it .....


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## lubricity (Jan 15, 2007)

This is why we got rid of all the Dodge plow trucks


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## ta3834bbl (Dec 4, 2004)

Go to the trans shop with the truck and have them drop the pan. Look at it with them and look for the front band strut anchor and see if it fell out! I bet it did. Mine lost second gear instantly on a fishing trip a couple years ago, it would go from first to what I though was second with very, very light throttle pressure, but with regular acceleration it would just rev up in first until I let off and then shift directly to third. ( trans shop with gauges confirmed this). We dropped the pan at my buddies trans shop and found the front band strut anchor had fallen out. There was enough slop in the band that we squeezed the band together by hand and reinstalled the strut and anchor. It worked, even without adjusting the band correctly to remove the slop ( we intended to pull the trans anyway) . After disassembling the entire trans including the OD unit, all friction plates, steels, and drums, ect were in great shape. The front band friction material was a little thin but would have made it a while longer properly adjusted (buy you some time), and the rear band was of course just fine. Since it was out of the truck, which was no fun at all, we installed new plates, steels, bands, shift kit, modified the hyd system a bit and it works like it should have from the factory! You wouldn't believe how cheap it was to do it yourself, but you better know what the inside of a tranny looks like first. I have some pics of the parts but I will have to shrink them first or post links to them and I suck at that. I will give it a try in a minute.


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## ta3834bbl (Dec 4, 2004)

OK here are the links, I think to my tranny in pieces. first one is where the band strut and anchor are missing for the front band, second is the entire thing in pieces, and third is me working on it, making one trans out of many pieces. lol Might be something to look for. www.moparworld.com/mikes67cuda/1000.6440.jpg_0433.JPG www.moparworld.com/mikes67cuda/1000.6440.jpg_0443.JPG www.moparworld.com/mikes67cuda/1000.6440.jpg_0448.JPG

I hope this helps. It may have nothing to do with your problem, but it sure sounds like it might be.

Anyone want to tell me if the links worked, they did for me. Warning, large JPG's


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## WetChicken (Dec 23, 2006)

They worked fine for me, and were speedy on my cable connection. Nice server!


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## maximus44 (Nov 28, 2006)

Hey Diehrd !
The dealer replaced a solenoid,freed up a sticky linkage,and the was a small broken part in it that I cant recall.
All in all: $270.00 in parts, and $500 labour.
What do ya think?
Oh ya,what do you guys think about a shift kit for the tranny?tymusic


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## diehrd (Dec 11, 2006)

I think he took advantage of ya to some extent..$700.00 ? ? Thats almost 1/2 a new tranny


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## wagonman76 (Jan 31, 2005)

Dont know about a Dodge truck, but on my van, just to GET to the side pan cover to access the solenoids and valve body was most of the work of what it would have been to remove the tranny.  The labor could be about right.

Many times it is just as much labor to do a repair on something rather than replace it. Depending on how hard it is to get at the part that needs to be worked on.

Solenoids might be about $30 like mine were, but could be much more. That small broken part could have been a very expensive little part. Then youve got the gaskets and fluid (and old fluid disposal) and cleaning agents and hopefully a new filter. By the time you add all that, it could be about right.

It probably also counts as something that this guy really knows what he is doing, compared to the local competition. Being more thorough takes more time.

But its still a lot less than a new tranny.

Oh and I would skip on the shift kit. Just my opinion, but you just had a pro check it out and got it working great again. And its lasted this long without a shift kit. I wouldnt go messing with it.


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## diehrd (Dec 11, 2006)

I use to own a tranny shop,,all you said sounds good ,,matter of fact I am sure the shop said the same crap..They kicked him in the balls for repair cost !


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## Rcgm (Dec 17, 2000)

My friend has a 1996 dodge 2500.His 2nd gear has been gone for about 3 years now.He still drive it everday.




RCGM
Brad


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