# General Liability Insurance



## jjklongisland

I was wondering if you guys can help me out. I have been plowing for a bunch of seasons now for a landscaper as a sub and now he wants me to get general liability insurance. I only plow on average 12 hours per storm and lately we havent had much snow (3 events last season). Does anybody know what this will cost me and if its worth it. He says its cheap but I havent called around yet. I was wondering if guys know what it might cost in NY.


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## 06HD BOSS

depends on a lot of factors. my 1 and 3 million coverage runs about $700 if i can remember


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## BHISNOWMAN

About $598. A year., add the snowplowing for residential only. Another $150. For $1,000,000.00/$2,000,000.00 coverage. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ additional for commercial snow liability.


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## Mick

Cheap is relative, I guess. Mine is $850 for $1,000,000.


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## jjklongisland

Thanks for the prices. I only plow commercial and if we get another winter with only 4 events its gonna really hurt me gettting the additional coverage. If someone hits me while driving with a plow on my truck, my standard policy should cover me. But if I am in the act of plowing in a commercial property and get hit I am screwed, correct???


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## erkoehler

Just called to get a quote from progressive today, I don't know how much I am going to sleep tonight! I am anticipating a HEALTHY premium!


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## 06HD BOSS

yeah, good luck with them. they quoted me $2990!  lol


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## erkoehler

06HD BOSS;605648 said:


> yeah, good luck with them. they quoted me $2990!  lol


Who'd you end up with?


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## NorthernSvc's

i would tell him that if he wants me to have more insurance, than he better pay for it! if he needs drivers he will, otherwise he will just drop the subject.


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## 06HD BOSS

erkoehler;605653 said:


> Who'd you end up with?


Selective.


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## erkoehler

Sent you a PM


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## cretebaby

try allied/nationwide they have been good to us


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## erkoehler

I will call them tomorrow AM.


Question:

If I add commercial auto including snow plowing, do I need a general liability as well? I do not need any coverage in the summer.


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## EPPSLLC

this is kinda a scam way but pay month by month and then cancel after season is over


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## erkoehler

EPPSLLC;605717 said:


> this is kinda a scam way but pay month by month and then cancel after season is over


And then the following year it is even harder to get coverage!


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## scottL

erkoehler;605712 said:


> I will call them tomorrow AM.
> 
> Question:
> 
> If I add commercial auto including snow plowing, do I need a general liability as well? I do not need any coverage in the summer.


In Illinois you must have general liability, period. You then need a policy that is for general contracting/service with a note that you snow plow. This policy will run $400 plus. You may think about going to a single company - take out an auto policy, an umbrella policy and then a contractors policy. This usually saves money. I'm with StateFarm since ... forever.


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## bribrius

erkoehler;605718 said:


> And then the following year it is even harder to get coverage!


yeah they want a bigger up front deposit to start it.


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## Mick

jjklongisland;605611... If someone hits me while driving with a plow on my truck said:


> Not usually. Check with your insurance co. Most Personal Use policies (regular/standard auto ins) will not be in effect if you have a plow on your vehicle.


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## jjklongisland

Mick;605842 said:


> Not usually. Check with your insurance co. Most Personal Use policies (regular/standard auto ins) will not be in effect if you have a plow on your vehicle.


Why is that, my truck is a Sno Commander model that came with a plow. As an option from the dealer it should be covered. I will check though.


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## Mick

The dealer has nothing to do with insurance.


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## jjklongisland

OK, I spoke with the insurance company and said the minimum policy for General Liabiliy Ins is $1800 per year and has nothing to do with my vehicle insurance which would have to be switched to a commercial policy which is $500 per year more. Therefore it would cost me $2300 per year where last year I only made $2500. Doesnt make sense. It looks like I might be out of the plowing business. To make a few thousand and possibly lose my house cause of a slip and fall law suit etc. isnt really worth it. 

What other option do I have. Can the landscaper I work for add me and my truck to his policy so I am covered? What would that cost him? Any advice


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## Mick

Be careful with having someone just add you to their policy. You'd still need commecial vehicle insurance (he can't help with that unless he just gives you the money to pay it) and having you on his policy could make you an employee vs contractor (you couldn't have any other accounts). You're finding out why a lot of guys just "chance it". The biggest problem is that they think they're still covered by their vehicle insurance (they're not).

Advise - go after more business to pay the costs or find another line of work.


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## jjklongisland

Well currently I get $75 an hour with my truck. I know he likes using me cause I work hard and he trusts me. I dont dilly dally or jerk around. I get the job done. I will add commercial insurance to my truck if he pays to add me to his insurance and gives me proof in writing. Otherwise I might call it a day and sell the plow. For some reason I am more nervous about this insurance thing than ever. Like I said earlier, ignorance is bliss and as you get older you get wiser. I have a kid now and a house. Dont want to ever get in a pickle.


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## jjklongisland

Just got another quote for commercial truck insurance at $2000 per year for an 89 Dodge Ram, R U FREAKIN KIDDING ME....


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## erkoehler

I have talked w/ 4 different insurance companies today who have all told me that if I am snow plowing in my vehicle and have it classified as a utility vehicle (some use as a work truck some as personal vehicle) that I will be covered in case of any accident/collision/etc. 

I was quoted $860 for 6 months from State Farm, this is just over what I pay for standard vehicle insurance. (Sucks to be a younger, single, male for insurance!)


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## erkoehler

Anybody heard of this?


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## 06HD BOSS

If thats the case, i would make sure its in writing somewhere in the policy, and make sure you find it and read all the fine print first, before you sign! sometimes the agents will tell you what you want to hear, or what they think, but fact is, theyre not always right


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## erkoehler

I will call them tomorrow and ask to have it sent over in writing......I was excited about the price, if plowing is covered!


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## 06HD BOSS

price is a little high for 6 months. but not too bad. im paying $1300 / year. and would only be $900 if i didnt have snowplowing.


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## erkoehler

How old are you, I am 24 they said it would be higher because of that........

I have one claim from a year ago, and one ticket 34 months ago


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## 06HD BOSS

im 24. will be 25 next month. excellent driving record & only 1 speeding ticket 2 years ago


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## bribrius

Mick;605842 said:


> Not usually. Check with your insurance co. Most Personal Use policies (regular/standard auto ins) will not be in effect if you have a plow on your vehicle.


from mmg insurance
http://www.mainemutual.com/autofaq.htm

Q. Does my auto policy cover my pick up cap and plow?

A. Plows and standard pickup caps are covered by your automobile policy. Plows are considered part of your vehicle's equipment. Caps that are not customized are covered; however, if you have a customized cap that provides additional living space, special carpeting, furniture, cooking facilities, extended roofs, or custom murals, paintings or decals, these items are not covered without an endorsement on the policy and additional premium. If you have any questions about coverage for a pickup or van that you own, please check with your agent.

I have yet to find a company that does not cover a plow on a personal auto policy in normal driving. Or heard of any incident in which a accident occured while somone was plowing and it was not covered by a personal auto policy. I actually searched through a all kinds of court documents online looking for case in which the insurance company refused the claim because of plowing last year.This is not to say that you are incorrect about getting a commercial policy at all but we should clear this up so that everyone with a plow that does not plow commercially understands that they dont need commercial insurance and they will still be covered. .
As far as coverage on a personal policy driving from point a to point b with plow on the truck it seems standard practice to cover it (see above). If your plowing as a business and for profit then you are exposing the insurance company to additional risk they are not being adequately compensated for and that is where they may have a case for refusing a claim.


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## erkoehler

That is basically what they told me earlier today, even while plowing commercially I would be covered under the auto policy because the plow is part of the vehicle.

If I were to get out of my truck and be injured, that would not be covered. Only damage/injuries happening to the vehicle or me while in the vehicle.


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## bribrius

erkoehler;606675 said:


> That is basically what they told me earlier today, even while plowing commercially I would be covered under the auto policy because the plow is part of the vehicle.
> 
> If I were to get out of my truck and be injured, that would not be covered. Only damage/injuries happening to the vehicle or me while in the vehicle.


re-read what i posted, again. If your plowing commercially. You should have commercial insurance because the insurance company may deny your claim. If your not plowing commercially, then they will most likley just pay the claim. If you accept money for plowing services then you are technically plowing commercially. Driving from a to b i think would be covered anyway but if your pushing a lot on commercial plates, nice big sign on your truck, with a regular auto policy and have a accident the insurance will probably tell you your on your own and paying it yourself.
Most commercial work requires proof of insurance. Some require it to actually list snowplowing as a covered item.

as a wise man once said (mick the wise man) dont just believe what they tell you or what your agent says, look for it in writing and talk directly to the underwriter. hell, dont even believe us this is a website talk to your underwriter at your insurance company.


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## erkoehler

I have sent my agent an email, and will probably hear back tomorrow afternoon. Let me also clarify that I called REQUESTING commercial insurance and a 2 million dollar liability policy. The ins. agent is the one that pushed me the other direction!

I will be plowing commercially, as a sub contractor, but I have regular plates on my truck and do not have any business name on my truck.

Have to get some sleep now, this insurance talk wears me out! WE NEED SNOW 

I will report back tomorrow w/ my findings.


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## ford6.9

I was quoted $860 for 6 months from State Farm, this is just over what I pay for standard vehicle insurance. (Sucks to be a younger, single, male for insurance!)[/QUOTE]

Makes me Feel bad for what I am paying a whole heck of a lot more and on 3 trucks. Thats not a bad rate. ( No traffic tickets, No speeding. One plowing accident (rates went down after which, so thats not the reason for my rates))


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## ducatirider944

I don't know about other companies, but if you are plowing commerially and have State Farm you can get a rider for plowing for about $100-$200 depending on your age and driving record. This only applies if your subbing, becuase it only covers damage done by your vehicle. If you are plowing and it is your contract, you better have general liability for slip and falls, or be willing to give up your house.


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## erkoehler

ducatirider944;606771 said:


> I don't know about other companies, but if you are plowing commerially and have State Farm you can get a rider for plowing for about $100-$200 depending on your age and driving record. This only applies if your subbing, becuase it only covers damage done by your vehicle. If you are plowing and it is your contract, you better have general liability for slip and falls, or be willing to give up your house.


I think this is how they were quoting my policy.......makes more sense now!


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## IMAGE

I am with Allied. I got 1m/3m GL. And 1m/2m Commercial Auto, with a declaration stating the truck would be used for plowing snow noted right on the first page of the policy. Both policies together were under 900/yr. This is in ND for a 27yr single male. This reminds me I gotta reup here next month.


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## Mick

Just a word of caution - Be VERY careful with State Farm Insurance. This is based on personal experience. Remember the saying - If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. One clue in general is to see if the insurance company you are dealing with issues Business policies IN YOUR STATE.

I was basing my advice on having a plow on your vehicle with a Personal Use policy from advise of my agent and policy a couple of years ago. A Personal Use policy would indeed cover a plow mounted on the truck while en route to the nearest gas station and return to my home. If outside that route, it would be assumed that the plow was being used for other than personal use. The same is true with my tractor - I can operate it on the highway to go to the nearest gas station and return without a license plate (State law). I just checked the other day and now I couldn't have a plow or even plow mounts on my truck at all unless I have commercial plates. But, I think that's because I've been in the plowing business for awhile.


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## bribrius

erkoehler;606780 said:


> I think this is how they were quoting my policy.......makes more sense now!


state farm just quoted me 125 a month for two vehicles with a plowing rider. said they were putting in it snowplowing ()typing it write in) but for less than 50% of use. Meaning the vehicles will spend less than 50% of the time plowing.
not sure what the deal is but it seems a little cheap and too good to be true im having them fax it over so i can look a little more closley.


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## bribrius

erkoehler;606183 said:


> I have talked w/ 4 different insurance companies today who have all told me that if I am snow plowing in my vehicle and have it classified as a utility vehicle (some use as a work truck some as personal vehicle) that I will be covered in case of any accident/collision/etc.
> 
> I was quoted $860 for 6 months from State Farm, this is just over what I pay for standard vehicle insurance. (Sucks to be a younger, single, male for insurance!)


that is exactly what state farm is quoting me. L1 utility vehicles.
They wrote in it snowplowing. 137 a month it came in at. (was 125 till they put in the utility and plowing i guess).
I told them to go ahead and put it in effect but i still dont trust it.
They say for resi i am fully covered up to 300k but i cant take on business contracts, and if i start doing contracts with businesses i need to go to a full commercial policy. I also have to make sure the vehicles under the policy dont plow more than they are used for non commercial use..
Im still shopping, even though i had it put into effect today. Makes me a bit nervous. Sounds like its a maybe, maybe not situation and the coverage is really low i was a lot higher before.. 
Any comments would be appreciated.

MICK, you seem pretty experienced with state farm. what do you think about this?
I need something to tie me over until i find something better. My insurance i stopped paying before and canceled wants a signifcant down payment this time because i didnt complete the year for insurance (dont need it year round i just plow snow). Im a little nervouse about the plowing businesses side on this since i may pick up a couple business at some point but maybe it will tie me over temporarily at least for resi?.
Is it bs or not? Give a call to your local state farm agent and see if you get the same story i have.


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## Mick

There's actually three issues here - One is personal, the second concerns the company's reputation and the third is the trap you can get caught in between personal and commercial insurance.

1. I wouldn't trust State Farm regardless. They cancelled me with no notice, sent a refund of premium and I was unknowingly uninsured. My State Farm agent was unable to find out why - even eleven year later.

2. State Farm has a reputation for not paying claims. They have been sued successfully several times. They have been written up in Reader's Digest twice for this issue.

3. This is basically a Personal Use policy being amended for commercial use. How is the vehicle registered? If "personal", can you legally use it to generate income under State law? If Commercial (registration), this alone can be used to claim the vehicle is being primarily used to generate income. Either way, the claim can be denied for violating state law or policy provisions. And even comsidering that neither of these become an issue - How can you PROVE that the vehicle is used less than 50% for pushing snow? Consider that it is likely that the majority of time and/or miles during the next five months could involve pushing snow. This is the time period that you will likely have a claim (and the rider is for this period of time). You will need to PROVE that during any given period of time (whether a day/month etc) plowing snow DID NOT make up 50% of the "use".

Do you think I'm being paranoid? Do you think insurance companies are in business to do you a favor?


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## bribrius

everyone wants me to sign up for landscaping even though i dont landscape. And to have a longer policy than just during the snow season.

they all want my money. :crying:


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## IMAGE

bribrius;607341 said:


> everyone wants me to sign up for landscaping even though i dont landscape. And to have a longer policy than just during the snow season.
> 
> they all want my money. :crying:


It was CHEAPER for me to get landscaping included in my policy, and to have yr round coverage.


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## bribrius

IMAGE;607344 said:


> It was CHEAPER for me to get landscaping included in my policy, and to have yr round coverage.


is for me too and worked great until it stopped snowing so i didnt pay it anymore. now they want big downpayments to start it up again. And i dont want to carry plowing insurance all year when i just need it for five or six months unless they want to lower the price..
personal auto with no plowing is cheaper in the summer, and it isnt snowing.
im thrifty (should have been a jew)


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## erkoehler

You wouldn't have to cancel the policy, can't you just change it back to personal auto in the spring?


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## terrapro

sometimes getting the best price on things isnt always good. you might find a company thats cheap but wont pay out when you need it so whats the point in having it.

find a company that knows something about plowing and writing plowing insurance. local always helps, then you can walk in and look at them in the eyes. my ins company insists on writing both my commercial auto and gen liability so they can word them appropriately to work together. 

they saved me $700 on my auto coverage compared to progressive. which $700 happens to be my GL cost for the year so i basically got it for free.

point being, look around!


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## ford6.9

Give nationwide a call. I have a policy with them for landscaping & plowing and the rates were the best around for what I was having covered. And they do pay claims. I had a claim called it in 6am the next day my customer had a check in hand. Its a good feeling to have a solid business behind you.


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## cmo18

Hi guys, I do about 10 to 15 driveways and cause im so young my GL is about 1700$. Do I have to get GL or can I just have commercial insurance? Thanks Chris


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## terrapro

chris_morrison;609448 said:


> Hi guys, I do about 10 to 15 driveways and cause im so young my GL is about 1700$. Do I have to get GL or can I just have commercial insurance? Thanks Chris


GL would cover you in an event that something happens inadvertantly from your business actions, ie slip and fall because of ice or a car accident from lack of visibility because your piles are to big and next to the road way . you need commercial auto insurance for anything that happens while in the truck plowing.

you need both!


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## bettysmile

yes, you need both, in stead of deciding which one to have, i suggest you shop around for a better rate.


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