# Battery Drain



## john_alaska (Nov 9, 2012)

Western Pro. Over the years plow usage has been draining the battery while in use. I just added a new 130AMP alterator and HD battery and plow usage will quickly drain down the battery.. Is making the assumption that replacing the motor should fix the issue??? Thanks


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Well....are you running the tk a lot while plowing?


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

john_alaska;1616545 said:


> Western Pro. Over the years plow usage has been draining the battery while in use. I just added a new 130AMP alterator and HD battery and plow usage will quickly drain down the battery.. Is making the assumption that replacing the motor should fix the issue??? Thanks


Replacing the motor?

What motor?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

I think he's talking about the plow motor


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## john_alaska (Nov 9, 2012)

dieselss;1616597 said:


> I think he's talking about the plow motor


Ya, the electric motor on the plow, it is a cable activated motor to run the hydraulic pump. When the motor is activated, the charging gauge needle on the dash drops all the way down and after a while of plow use the battery will be drained... I am not sure if the problem is the motor, pump, or wires ??? any ideas... It is an older style plow, if it is the motor, i think I can replace it cheaper than having it rebuilt.. any ideas on what the problem could be other than the motor??


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

It shouldn't be draining that bad. When's the last time the plow motor has been replaced? How about the pump? Have you put a meter on it and watched the volts? Do a volt drop test? How's the electrical connections? The batt cable's to and from the plow? Again how long are you running the truck while plowing?


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## jb1390 (Sep 23, 2008)

With engine idling:

check voltage at the battery with all accessories including lights on at once. 

then check voltage of the alternator to the ground (negative) terminal on the battery

then check voltage of the alternator to the case of the alternator

Post back and we'll go from there.

Oh, and if jasonv posts, ignore him. I think we are past his misinformed advice, but just in case.


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## john_alaska (Nov 9, 2012)

jb1390;1616636 said:


> With engine idling:
> 
> check voltage at the battery with all accessories including lights on at once.
> 
> ...


The battery is new HD, and alternator is new HD 130 AMP.. voltage at battery while runing is 13+ volts


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Needs tobe 14.+


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## jb1390 (Sep 23, 2008)

john_alaska;1616640 said:


> The battery is new HD, and alternator is new HD 130 AMP.. voltage at battery while runing is 13+ volts


no difference in any of the voltages that I said to check?

Are you checking using the voltmeter on the truck, or an external one? The voltmeter on the truck will not be accurate enough.


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## jb1390 (Sep 23, 2008)

dieselss;1616644 said:


> Needs tobe 14.+


I suspect it might be at the alternator, but not at the battery. OP needs to check all three measurements and post back 3 voltages, including the first decimal point.

I.E. 13.5 alternator positive post to battery ground, etc


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## john_alaska (Nov 9, 2012)

jb1390;1616649 said:


> I suspect it might be at the alternator, but not at the battery. OP needs to check all three measurements and post back 3 voltages, including the first decimal point.
> 
> I.E. 13.5 alternator positive post to battery ground, etc


Ok, let me be honest, I do not have a clue what to do. I have a volt-amp meter. Can you detail me in on how to perform all the tests, which terminals to check, etc...... be much appreciated


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## jb1390 (Sep 23, 2008)

john_alaska;1616699 said:


> Ok, let me be honest, I do not have a clue what to do. I have a volt-amp meter. Can you detail me in on how to perform all the tests, which terminals to check, etc...... be much appreciated


It would be best to have a digital voltmeter, though analog would work as well. Set the meter to measure volts DC.

Step 1. Measure voltage with the engine off/key off at the battery (positive terminal to negative terminal. Record the voltage.

Step 2. Measure the same voltage at the battery with engine idling, and every switch you can find turned on (except plow motor and other very large loads). Record the voltage.

Complete steps 3 and 4 with the same switches turned on.

Step 3. Measure the voltage from the stud on the back of the alternator to the negative terminal on the battery. Record the voltage.

Step 4. Measure the voltage from the stud on the back of the alternator to the alternator case (you might need to clean a spot on the case with a wire brush to get good contact). Record the voltage. This last number should be the same or higher than any previous measurements. If not, ensure you got good connections to the meter the first time.

Post back these 4 measurements and we will go from there. What kind of resolution can you get on your meter? Will you be able to tell the difference between 13.0 and 13.2 volts?


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## racer47 (Feb 24, 2011)

check cable its might be shorting out on truck frame.how old are cables. ya no i think one is ground and 1 is hot for control to activate pump cant remember which cable is hot go to western site and it will tell ya.good luck


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## john_alaska (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks for the info, I will do the tests tonight and get back to you. Yes, I have a accurate digital meter, thanks again...



jb1390;1616744 said:


> It would be best to have a digital voltmeter, though analog would work as well. Set the meter to measure volts DC.
> 
> Step 1. Measure voltage with the engine off/key off at the battery (positive terminal to negative terminal. Record the voltage.
> 
> ...


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## john_alaska (Nov 9, 2012)

john_alaska;1616864 said:


> Thanks for the info, I will do the tests tonight and get back to you. Yes, I have a accurate digital meter, thanks again...


STEP 1: 12.82 Volts
STEP 2: 14.39 Volts
STEP 3: 14.37 Volts
STEP 4: 14.44 Volts


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## john_alaska (Nov 9, 2012)

jb1390;1616744 said:


> It would be best to have a digital voltmeter, though analog would work as well. Set the meter to measure volts DC.
> 
> Step 1. Measure voltage with the engine off/key off at the battery (positive terminal to negative terminal. Record the voltage.
> 
> ...


STEP 1: 12.82 Volts
STEP 2: 14.39 Volts
STEP 3: 14.37 Volts
STEP 4: 14.44 Volts

........ok??


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

What would also be useful is a amp reading of the plow pump running. I would say your first idea is most likely correct but a amp reading would tell you this. Also check the amp output of the Alt. Just because it said 130 does not mean it will. I use 200 amp Alt. that are made for high output car radios. They will put out 186 amps at idle speed.


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## john_alaska (Nov 9, 2012)

maxwellp;1616992 said:


> What would also be useful is a amp reading of the plow pump running. I would say your first idea is most likely correct but a amp reading would tell you this. Also check the amp output of the Alt. Just because it said 130 does not mean it will. I use 200 amp Alt. that are made for high output car radios. They will put out 186 amps at idle speed.


Ok, the voltage was a challenge, but I figured it out. I'll have to do some research on testing amperage, and where and how to connect the meter, after I find out what kind of meter I need. I do not think the meter I have is heavy enough for automotive amperage.

I'll get to it this weekend. Thanks for the input....


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

jb1390;1616636 said:


> Oh, and if jasonv posts, ignore him. I think we are past his misinformed advice, but just in case.


I kind of miss him, but excellent point:laughing:


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

2COR517;1618755 said:


> I kind of miss him,


Like a toothache.


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## jb1390 (Sep 23, 2008)

john_alaska;1616971 said:


> STEP 1: 12.82 Volts
> STEP 2: 14.39 Volts
> STEP 3: 14.37 Volts
> STEP 4: 14.44 Volts
> ...


Those numbers indicate that the wiring is in ok shape from the alternator to the battery.

Do you do any driving between accounts, or are you plowing with the truck, then shutting it off quickly without letting the alternator "catch up"?

You can have the pump checked for abnormal current draw, but if nothing has changed in years, I'd be highly skeptical that a new motor would fix it.

Perhaps you'd be best off installing a second battery, to give you the extra reserve capacity. I've done that on all my trucks, and it is/was common for the battery to drain while at a parking lot, with all the lights on, then charge again when driving between accounts.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

Here is what you need to solve your problems. Thumbs Up


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## vegaman04 (Dec 12, 2007)

A amp clamp is a MUST when trying to trace this problem down. On my beater, the battery goes dead every week when i don't get a chance to drive it, ended up being the pos radio / cd player that was installed, pulled it out and no more issues.


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## john_alaska (Nov 9, 2012)

maxwellp;1619076 said:


> Here is what you need to solve your problems. Thumbs Up


that's what i figured i would need, they are nice, but spendy for little I would use it... so if I just clamp it around the positive cable going to the plow motor, and the have someone activate the motor, the amp reading would be the amp draw of the motor??? is this correct??


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## jb1390 (Sep 23, 2008)

john_alaska;1619674 said:


> that's what i figured i would need, they are nice, but spendy for little I would use it... so if I just clamp it around the positive cable going to the plow motor, and the have someone activate the motor, the amp reading would be the amp draw of the motor??? is this correct??


Correct me if I am wrong, but you have no reason to think that the draw from the plow motor is more than it should be, besides a hunch and the fact that the battery goes dead after plowing. If that is your only symptom, and your lights/dashboard aren't nearly shutting down when the plow is activated, and nothing has changed in a few years, I think you are looking in the wrong direction thinking it is the plow motor.

Can you tell us about your average plowing experience-just your own driveway, do you have a route, how long is the truck running, do you have lights and other accessories installed, etc.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

john_alaska;1619674 said:


> that's what i figured i would need, they are nice, but spendy for little I would use it... so if I just clamp it around the positive cable going to the plow motor, and the have someone activate the motor, the amp reading would be the amp draw of the motor??? is this correct??


Yes

If you are not having it go dead when you are not plowing this would be a good place to start. You can also check the output of the alternator with this same type of clamp meter. Auto-zone or some parts store may have one you could use.


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## john_alaska (Nov 9, 2012)

jb1390;1619717 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but you have no reason to think that the draw from the plow motor is more than it should be, besides a hunch and the fact that the battery goes dead after plowing. If that is your only symptom, and your lights/dashboard aren't nearly shutting down when the plow is activated, and nothing has changed in a few years, I think you are looking in the wrong direction thinking it is the plow motor.
> 
> Can you tell us about your average plowing experience-just your own driveway, do you have a route, how long is the truck running, do you have lights and other accessories installed, etc.


Well, my hunch is based on 30+ years of plowing. A few driveways at a time, 3 lane miles. My current truck with the Western Pro was purchased used, plow installed by dealer. The plow has been draining the battery more and more every year till the point if the truck stalls while plowing and the battery is dead and I need to jump or put on a charger. Worst case is when I am in open traffic. Battery and alternator are all new and working at 110%. Cables are (oversized) all in perfect condition with multi grounds, and these are not an issue with my current problem.


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## jb1390 (Sep 23, 2008)

vegaman04;1619103 said:


> A amp clamp is a MUST when trying to trace this problem down. On my beater, the battery goes dead every week when i don't get a chance to drive it, ended up being the pos radio / cd player that was installed, pulled it out and no more issues.


http://www.newark.com/murata-power-...ch=Popular Panel Displays And Instrumentation

You could also get one of these, they work by installing them inline with the plow motor/alternator/whatever else you want to test, and hooking up a voltmeter across them. $25 and it will be more accurate than a clamp that goes around the cable, but it is a little more labor intensive to set up.

If you want to get one of these, I can walk you through how to connect it if you need some assistance.

One other thought-I wonder if you have a short circuit somewhere else in the plow wiring besides the motor. Does the truck go dead if you leave the plow connected overnight, or drive the truck with the plow on, but don't use it for plowing?


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

jb1390;1619802 said:


> http://www.newark.com/murata-power-...ch=Popular Panel Displays And Instrumentation
> 
> You could also get one of these, they work by installing them inline with the plow motor/alternator/whatever else you want to test, and hooking up a voltmeter across them. $25 and it will be more accurate than a clamp that goes around the cable, but it is a little more labor intensive to set up.
> 
> ...


You may need to find one that goes to 250 amps.
The motor can draw 200 amps at the relief psi. Most likely 185 ish going back and forth. 
This is from the Western Book
Max. Motor
Amp Draw At
Relief Pressure**
Standard, Pro 3500 1-1/2 - 2 1750 200 
Heavyweight 3500 1-1/2 - 2 1900 210
Sport Utility 2500 2-1/4 - 2-3/4 1550 180


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## jb1390 (Sep 23, 2008)

You can exceed the rated currents for short durations, they are designed for continuous current flow. A 100 amp shunt would probably be sufficient. Too big of a shunt won't give you good resolution because the voltage drop across it is difficult to measure.


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## john_alaska (Nov 9, 2012)

jb1390;1619933 said:


> You can exceed the rated currents for short durations, they are designed for continuous current flow. A 100 amp shunt would probably be sufficient. Too big of a shunt won't give you good resolution because the voltage drop across it is difficult to measure.


What would be an acceptable amp draw testing the motor by itself off the rig not connected to the pump??


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Start up amps would be high. But continuous should be significantly lower


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## jb1390 (Sep 23, 2008)

I would test the motor loaded, running it full angle until it hits the relief valve, not sure what amp draw that should give you exactly, but a 100 amp shunt should work, you won't be testing longer than 10-20 seconds, the shunt shouldn't overheat


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