# 1st Problem this year.....



## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

Okay....

So I go out this morning and start the truck. I got nothing. I take out the key and it keeps clicking. So I pulled the battery and hooked it up to the charger. It said I had 100%. I reinstalled the battery and the truck fired up, I tested the plow it it worked fine....

Fast Forward 3 hours....

I need to go in town. I start the truck and lift the plow, no problems. I get to my destination and try to shift plow to the right. It slowly goes over about 4 inches then dies. I try all other directions and get nothing. 

Once I got home I was able to look it over. When I hit the controller the solonoid clicks everytime but the motor is NOT running. I can lower the plow but nothing else.....

I have power to the controller, the headlights function as they. The motor just doesn't run. I have inspected all the contact points of power and ground ad everything seems fine. I even tried to connect the battery directly to the motor with jumpers and that didn't work either (though I am not sure I had a good connection cause my jumpers are huge)....

The truck side wiring harness is brand spanking new, the motor was rebuilt last year according to the former owner.

Any ideas of what I can do for some easy checking to help figure this out? This is my first plow and I have limited knowledge. Any help woudl be appreciated!


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## no lead (Dec 10, 2008)

jump the 2 big stud on the solenoid. motor run? if no, get the cables out and jump to the motor again. verify good power. if the motor won't run jumped direct it is bad.


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

no lead;902368 said:


> jump the 2 big stud on the solenoid. motor run? if no, get the cables out and jump to the motor again. verify good power. if the motor won't run jumped direct it is bad.


Umm...

You want me to run my cables from the battery to a stud on the solenoid, then if the motor runs the "relay / solenoid" is good right?

The solenoid is Brand New bought from your shop when I bought the truck side harness 2 months ago.....

So I was correct in trying to run direct power from the battery to the motor with cables then right? When I did that I got a little spark on the stud of the motor which verified to me that I had power to the motor but the motor did not start up....

So I am assuming the motor is gone then? Would it just suddenly die like that when it was working fine?


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

Clevername;902375 said:


> Umm...
> 
> You want me to run my cables from the battery to a stud on the solenoid, then if the motor runs the "relay / solenoid" is good right?


I meant to say then the Solenoid would then be bad.....

A buddy is coming up with a tester tomorrow. We are going to check all the points of contact (+ and - and ground) ....

I am putting my money on the motor being bad. It just seems funny that it would be a ground issue cause when I went to angle the plow it started to but then died and now the motor doesn't run. I "put hands" on every connection I can find, positive, negative and ground and they were all super tight. They were all working fine until now....

When I bought the plow, the guy told me the motor was completel rebuilt. He pointed to the motor and said, "The housing is an older style but the guts are all brand new last year"..... Of course me being plow stupid I could only take his word for it at the time.

So - if its the motor whats it gonna run me gents? $100 - $150 or what?


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

Well....

I'm about pissed off as I can get Gentlemen.....

I ran the "tests" to check to see why my motor is not running. The results told me that my motor was bad. So I drove the 50 miles into town today to Arista Trucking and bought a new $142.70 motor.

Driving home thinking I am all set.

The new motor has a post for Positive and Negative. My old one only had one for the Positive and the ground was connected to a "L" bracket. The Salesmen told me that so I figured I was GTG.....

I got home and successfully lined up the slots and put the motor on. I then fastened the bolts on and locked it down.

Then I moved to the cables. Problem number one. My wiring for the lights will not reach the New Negative post. It's a small problem so I didn't think much of it. So I continue on. As I am tightening the negative cable down to the post the post snaps right off the motor! I mean I was not even close to over torquing this bolt. So now I am flipping pissed off!

So I go ahead and figure for now I will ground it the old way just to get this plow running and verify the problem was the motor. So I take out one off the bolts to install the "L" bracket for the ground. Upon trying to rethread the bolt - it will not tighten down! Yup - the son-of-a-***** is stripped!

So now I can't tighten the motor down because the threads are stripped and I can't get a tight fit for the ground either.....

So just to satisfy my need of knowing the problem is the motor I go ahead and hook up my jumper cables to the motor directly from the battery. It should start right up....RIGHT?

NOPE......

So now I have no idea WTF my problem is. I could very well have spent money on a motor that I didn't need cause the test that I was instructed to do didn't work anyways. On top of that - the motor I bought is now damaged and I need to return it which means driving another 50 miles in town!

This is exactly how things go for me all the time! I don't even know why I try! This is about as straight forward of a thing as it can get and yet I still have issues and broken ****!

I just don't have the money to pay someone to fix this crap for me but yet - WTH am I suppose to do if I can't fix it myself? SHOOT ME NOW!


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Clevername;906279 said:


> I just don't have the money to pay someone to fix this crap for me but yet - WTH am I suppose to do if I can't fix it myself? SHOOT ME NOW!


find a new career?


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

Sorry that your having problems . Thems one of the "joys" of the plow biz. Been there done that and will get there again. Just regroup , stick to the original game plan and battle through.


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

If your electric motor o ld or new is on the work bench . Attach negative and positive cables to it and a battery, if it spins, doesnt smoke, rattle or fxrt the motor should be O K. Could be that you got a dud motor, take er back and demand a replacement (nicely business like off course.)


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

Where are you located in Michigan Clevername?


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## no lead (Dec 10, 2008)

if you come in tomorow ask for me and i will see what i can do. i may be gone in the am between 9 and 1.


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

> find a new career?


ROTFLMAO....

I wish I could. I make pretty good coin now to be honest but its all tied up paying regular bills. I hate what I do and wish I could change career's.......

BUt thanks for the chuckle....



augerandblade;906325 said:


> If your electric motor o ld or new is on the work bench . Attach negative and positive cables to it and a battery, if it spins, doesnt smoke, rattle or fxrt the motor should be O K. Could be that you got a dud motor, take er back and demand a replacement (nicely business like off course.)


Well...Beat this crap guys...

I already ran this test once on both motors and neither one of them spun. I just went out for the hell of it an ran that test again and my OLD motor took right off like a champ. I could not get the NEW motor to spin at all.....

I can not figure out why the hell the test didn't work the first time on the old motor. So now it appears I went thru all the trouble of taking the old motor off, driving 80 plus miles to get new one for no reason and in the process stripped out the bolt hole on the housing.....

So now the old motor appears to be fine and I still don't have a clue what my problem is as of why the plow was not moving.....



terrapro;906354 said:


> Where are you located in Michigan Clevername?


I live in Belding.....


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## poncho62 (Jan 23, 2004)

Intermittent stuff like that is a grounding problem a lot of the time....make sure everything is grounded well......Was probably your starting problem in the morning too.


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

A common problem with a lot of electrical systems is not good enuf ground. Make sure you have a ground cable from the electrical motor right to the negative post of the battery. I like using the universal batterys with both side and top connections. The solenoid clicks, but it may still be the problem, ensure that it is also grounded to the battery. This intermittent problem seems to be either a bad solenoid or ground.


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

no lead;906403 said:


> if you come in tomorow ask for me and i will see what i can do. i may be gone in the am between 9 and 1.


Allright -

What is your labor per hour down there? 
How quick could I get in to get this thing looked at?
What type of price are we talking about getting this thing re tapped and fixed?

PM me if you wish...... I appreciate any info.

I would like to think that perhaps my Solenoid is bad but the test I ran on that told me it was fine. Then again the tests I ran on the motor told me it was bad the first time.....

I am totally frustrated....


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

poncho62;906421 said:


> Intermittent stuff like that is a grounding problem a lot of the time....make sure everything is grounded well......Was probably your starting problem in the morning too.





augerandblade;906424 said:


> A common problem with a lot of electrical systems is not good enuf ground. Make sure you have a ground cable from the electrical motor right to the negative post of the battery. I like using the universal batterys with both side and top connections. The solenoid clicks, but it may still be the problem, ensure that it is also grounded to the battery. This intermittent problem seems to be either a bad solenoid or ground.


Right - I have a battery with double posts. The truck is run off the side posts and all the plow wiring is run off the top posts....

I have put hands on every ground that I can imagine and didn't find anything, though thats doesn't mean a damn thing as I apparantly am a total fal at running diagnostic tests to figure out these problems - no matter how straight forward it seems to be....

I agree - the solenoid could be bad. It's brand new as is the truck side harness that I bought from Arista. It seems to be working fine but certainly could be bad somewhere, somehow......

I just immediately didn't feel like it as a ground because when the polw died I was in the middle of angling the plow while parked. It started and moved roughly 6 inches and then just died out slowly. So it just seemed like something "wore out" right then.....


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## Plowfixguys (Oct 17, 2009)

I hate to tell you this, but don't get to comfortable in thinking your old motor is good......... Lots of times when you take the motor off and knock it around you free up a stuck brush inside. It will work for awhile but will stop again soon. IF your first tests where correct and the motor wasn't working but now is, I would say its going to fail again. If I where you I would get the replacement motor replaced and keep it as a spare. If you still have a problem let me know and I can get on the phone with ya and walk you through a test or two.


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

poss. alternator?


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

Plowfixguys;906508 said:


> I hate to tell you this, but don't get to comfortable in thinking your old motor is good......... Lots of times when you take the motor off and knock it around you free up a stuck brush inside. It will work for awhile but will stop again soon. IF your first tests where correct and the motor wasn't working but now is, I would say its going to fail again. If I where you I would get the replacement motor replaced and keep it as a spare. If you still have a problem let me know and I can get on the phone with ya and walk you through a test or two.


Right - I agree that is a possabilty.... BUt I also have to weigh my options and cash in hand. If it is going to cost me a bunch more money to fix this then I need the $140 I spent on the motor thats broke to help pay for the repairs or parts to get the original issue fixed....

I was hoping to make a bit of cash doing this and save it up so I would have some funds to spend on repairs , parts etc ec etc.... But apparantly I was not lucky enough to geta year out of it before problems surfaced....

I appreciate the offer for assistance. I may take you up on that, if not now perhaps on something later with my next problem....LOL



Deco;906510 said:


> poss. alternator?


Explain please..... ?

Even though I don;t think this is it - I woudl like to know the reason you mentioned it....


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

thats how alternators take a poop .slowly


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

Deco;906584 said:


> thats how alternators take a poop .slowly


Yeah but then would I not be having problems with the truck itself....

As in the battery not charging...

My plow truck is my daily driver also - so if this was the problem then I would be having problems minus the plow....

Right?


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

Here's one more question while we are at it....

As far as this stripped bolt hole on my pump casing, what are my best options here?

Do I need to drill it out and tap it with a bigger size? 
Can this be something that is solved with JB weld (Liquid Steel)?

Anyone have to deal with this before that has any helpful ideas or direction?

Thanks!


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## dchr (May 9, 2009)

What brand/model plow are you running?


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## Plowfixguys (Oct 17, 2009)

Do you have a volt meter?


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

dchr;906685 said:


> What brand/model plow are you running?


Western Unimount Straight Blade



Plowfixguys;906743 said:


> Do you have a volt meter?


Nope....

I am going to be hooking up with my buddy who has a tester and tools. Hopefully then we will beable to find out where my problem lies....


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## farmer1009 (Dec 9, 2009)

as far as the stripped bolt what I always do when I strip a bolt in a housing I always drill it, and then put a heli-coil in. If you are unfamiliar with them basically heli-coils look like a tiny little spring, and once installed into the drilled out hole it will let you thorw a new bolt in it, with out having to tap it.


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

your alternator needs to be delivering 14 steady to run that pump . check it when you make a draw . it's possible .


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Deco;907252 said:


> your alternator needs to be delivering 14 steady to run that pump . check it when you make a draw . it's possible .


 your plow runs directly off the battery, while you need a good alternator to keep it charged this is not a alternator related problem. You would be having truck related issues if that were the problem.



farmer1009;907174 said:


> as far as the stripped bolt what I always do when I strip a bolt in a housing I always drill it, and then put a heli-coil in. If you are unfamiliar with them basically heli-coils look like a tiny little spring, and once installed into the drilled out hole it will let you thorw a new bolt in it, with out having to tap it.


You have to tap for a heli-coil. The processes is: use the drill provided to open the hole up, use the tap provided to tap the hole, then using the tool provided insert the heli-coil. More expensive then going to the next size larger bolt but very handy when you need to maintain the bolt size, as in this application.

*Have you checked the grill plugs? they rot internally and will behave as you describe.*


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

basher;907272 said:


> your plow runs directly off the battery, while you need a good alternator to keep it charged this is not a alternator related problem. You would be having truck related issues if that were the problem.
> 
> 
> Right... Thats what I was saying.
> ...


The grill plugs on the truck side are BRAND NEW as is the whole truckside harness. I have not checked the plow side harness yet. I seriously needs my budd to get up here with a tester so I can start checking the system for power to all the points.....


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

UPDATE:

Took my plow into Arista Trucking today.....

The problem was the negative terminal on my truck battery is bad.....

I have dual posts and run all the plow equipment on the top posts. After doing some test they figured out the post at sometime had gotten "hot" and some plastic had melted around it. They shaved some of the post off to get to good metal and everything runs like a champ....

They also ran a longer bolt into my motor and housing and got to some good threads. Said I shoud be GTG with that for now....

They refunded my money on the motor that busted during installations. The mechanic said I might want to hang onto a new motor because either the mnotor or the pump is "growling" a bit more then it should...

But I figured I would tackle that when it happens as I need my money back to afford a new battery!

Guys at Arista treated me right - Good business!

Thanks Guys!


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Clevername;907874 said:


> UPDATE:
> . After doing some test they figured out the post at sometime had gotten *"hot"* and some plastic had melted around it. They shaved some of the post off to get to good metal and everything runs like a champ....
> 
> The mechanic said I might want to hang onto a new motor because either the mnotor or the pump is "growling" a bit more then it should...
> !


Maybe the first problem is the effect of whatever is growling requiring more energy to run.


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

basher;907272 said:


> your plow runs directly off the battery, while you need a good alternator to keep it charged this is not a alternator related problem. You would be having truck related issues if that were the problem.
> 
> You have to tap for a heli-coil. The processes is: use the drill provided to open the hole up, use the tap provided to tap the hole, then using the tool provided insert the heli-coil. More expensive then going to the next size larger bolt but very handy when you need to maintain the bolt size, as in this application.
> 
> *Have you checked the grill plugs? they rot internally and will behave as you describe.*


I believe your problem IS your alternator .


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## Clevername (Oct 5, 2009)

> Maybe the first problem is the effect of whatever is growling requiring more energy to run.


Right - I was thinking perhaps I am running to much off the one battery set up and thats why it got "hot" and ruined my negative post. I am thinking about going to a two battery setup. Don't know yet though. I can buy a 2nd battery for the plow stuff but that would require me to re-route my harness I think.....



Deco;908316 said:


> I believe your problem IS your alternator .


If you noticed my last post - My problem was the truck Battery having a faulty negative post....

Problem is solved - so it was not the alternator. Besides that my alternator is not giving me any other problems while driving the truck. Its charging my battery sufficiently......


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Deco;906584 said:


> thats how alternators take a poop .slowly


I have never had an alternator die slowly. Working, not working. I did smell smoke first once though


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