# Dealer hours



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Can I get some feedback:

How important are dealer hours in your choice of primary dealer? Both regular hours and emergency storm hours?

Also, for those of you that have dealers open 24 hours during a storm:

a) do they actually stay open or do they have an "emergency #" you call for service?
b) do they perform service after hours, or parts only?
c) does pricing change for after-hours on either?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

For plows? Minimally important for after hours. It's nice but not a need. That's why we have parts, backup plows, and a mechanic.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Yes, sorry, for plows. And sanders.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Yeah, it's something that I could see being really nice if as the end user A you are close to the dealer and B are smaller and don't have backup(s)/stock parts and/or can't work on your own stuff. 

Our closest boss dealer is 30+ minutes each way in clear weather, closest that's open in snow events is an hour each way in clear weather.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

There are quite a few Western dealers in my area that are open 24hrs when snowing.

The one that is the most reliable is the one that also operates a large snow operation also. Someone is always there to get you parts.

Socking your own parts is key as Jarrett said, but you also can't stock them all.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Not snowing, standard business hours. But during a storm, parts and service should be open, then the dealer needs to gauge that as to how many people to bring in. Here, up north we have a dealer, who is also a boat dealer. They do not open on Mondays. So if it snows over the weekend, you are waiting till Tuesday, or going someplace else. Can't figure that one out.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> How important are dealer hours in your choice of primary dealer?


Not so mulch.



cwren2472 said:


> Both regular hours and emergency storm hours?


Emergency hours are helpful.



cwren2472 said:


> a) do they actually stay open or do they have an "emergency #" you call for service?


Emergency number



cwren2472 said:


> b) do they perform service after hours, or parts only?


Either



cwren2472 said:


> c) does pricing change for after-hours on either?


Yes


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Randall Ave said:


> the dealer needs to gauge that as to how many people to bring in.


In my case, "parts" is me, and "service" is two other guys (who need me to supervise.) Unfortunately, we have no other "crew" to bring it. Currently, we do not stay open after hours.

I do have larger competitors that are "available" 24 hours during storms and I am trying to gauge if that is hurting me. I live about 20 minutes from the shop in good weather. My boss is about the same.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

My dealer is a 9-5 mon-fri,
He’s usually there until about 530 tho.
Saturday he’s there 9-1 I believe.
His emergency hours are a little weird.
He only opens up if we’re getting more than 2” of snow and he does service and parts on a first come first served


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BTW, regarding parts and service, I know everything breaks and it only makes sense to have some parts on hand; but what makes a difference is the quality of the product being sold. That greatly reduced the need for "emergency" hours.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> BTW, regarding parts and service, I know everything breaks and it only makes sense to have some parts on hand; but what makes a difference is the quality of the product being sold. That greatly reduced the need for "emergency" hours.


So the Snowdogg dealers need to stay open 24 hours even in August?


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## wishfull (Nov 22, 2017)

I run JD exclusively any more and my dealer is about 1.5 hours away on good roads. They have responded on Boxing Day and at night and Sundays for me, finding parts and sending out service techs. They have even gone as far as running down parts from their competitors for me.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> So the Snowdogg dealers need to stay open 24 hours even in August?


28 hours a day...in August.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

I'll take my Snowdogg over an EXT any day! :yow!:


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> The one that is the most reliable is the one that also operates a large snow operation also. Someone is always there to get you parts.


So they are a Western dealer but also plow commercially as well and are basically your competitor? That seems a bit conflict-of-interest-y.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

My dealer (Fisher, Western and SnowEx) is open 8-5 Mon to Fri. 8-12 or 1 on Sat. They're not open during storms. I wish they were. I do have a back up truck and plow....just in case.

NYH1.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

more important is do they answer their phone 24/7...and willing to help, but remember you must be willing to use them exclusively


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> Can I get some feedback:
> 
> How important are dealer hours in your choice of primary dealer? Both regular hours and emergency storm hours?
> 
> ...


A stay open once snowfall hits 2"
B both but only for customers that purchased equipment there
C no change in either


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

You want to charge a minimum on labor. At least one hour. You will have three people there after hours at time and a half.


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## FourDiamond (Nov 23, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> Can I get some feedback:
> 
> How important are dealer hours in your choice of primary dealer? Both regular hours and emergency storm hours?
> 
> ...


To me it would be great to have a dealer nearby that stays open during a storm, but that only works if you have a large enough market of these services where you are located. Our local dealer only wants to do new plow installs and the next closest is an hour and half away in good weather. Neither one is open after hours. If you would market yourself "as the guy who is there when the customer needs you" I think that would a great selling point, especially when selling new equipment.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Previous Fisher dealer was opened during storm, then Bobcat got the territory and they could care less about emergency service. I was picking up some bobcat parts and this guy in front of me had to make an appointment for a plow problem and they were 2 weeks out! I know the manager and asked whats up with that? Just shrugged his shoulders. I buy all my plows online and install/ service them myself if at all possible.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

How close do you live to shop? Can you be emergency contact for parts if you are close? 
If you don't live close enough for quick response then join our club and get a comfortable couch for the office, or I prefer my oversized recliner for cat naps.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> So they are a Western dealer but also plow commercially as well and are basically your competitor? That seems a bit conflict-of-interest-y.


If you choose to look at it that way.

When I need a part or a hose made in the middle of a storm, you don't much care who/where it comes from...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I would charge to open up. Many of my supply houses will open up for a charge. When you NEED a part, the charge means nothing at that time. 

There is one supplier of mine that is a big hitter. They have order picking crews at their branch all night, so you can call a PM number to get something in a pinch. It costs more money, but when you need it... you need it.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

m_ice said:


> How close do you live to shop? Can you be emergency contact for parts if you are close?
> If you don't live close enough for quick response then join our club and get a comfortable couch for the office, or I prefer my oversized recliner for cat naps.


No, during the last storm that I went home in, it took nearly an hour to get home.

My boss has floated the idea of staying open, but the issues are

#1) even after the storm, we can't go home and sleep because we still need to remain open for normal business hours (6 days a week) and have no extra man power to switch out.

#2) when the storm is raging during business hours, it's basically a ghost town in here with 1 person per hour showing up to buy a hose. We seem to sell nothing but $24 hoses to all of the customers who didn't know they should stock a hose. So, we could be staying open all night to sell $70 in parts.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> No, during the last storm that I went home in, it took nearly an hour to get home.
> 
> My boss has floated the idea of staying open, but the issues are
> 
> ...


Welcome to the world of snow plowing...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Welcome to the world of snow plowing...


No plowing for me; just selling.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

So can you have someone there working on something else and available if a customer comes in like my example with a snow operation?

As in have a mechanic there doing his day time activities at night? Send him home in the am when others arrive?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> So can you have someone there working on something else and available if a customer comes in like my example with a snow operation?
> 
> As in have a mechanic there doing his day time activities at night? Send him home in the am when others arrive?


Unfortunately no. My technicians are capable at what they do, but aren't able to help customers. All of the customer interaction has to go through me.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> I would charge to open up. Many of my supply houses will open up for a charge. When you NEED a part, the charge means nothing at that time.
> 
> There is one supplier of mine that is a big hitter. They have order picking crews at their branch all night, so you can call a PM number to get something in a pinch. It costs more money, but when you need it... you need it.


Cummings charges something like $200 to get a guy to show up to just check for a part. You pay whether they have it or not. Would seem to be easier to give the on-call guy interweb access so he could check from home.

But what do I know.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Or there's, it's three am. So n so gave me your number, I need a part. You meet him. Get him what he needs. Then, your prices are high, give me a break, and, can I pay you later?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Cummings charges something like $200 to get a guy to show up to just check for a part. You pay whether they have it or not. Would seem to be easier to give the on-call guy interweb access so he could check from home.
> 
> But what do I know.


Wow! I can't even imagine the s--t storm that would befall online us if I tried to charge a customer $20 for me to "see if I had a part", let alone $200.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Randall Ave said:


> Or there's, it's three am. So n so gave me your number, I need a part. You meet him. Get him what he needs. Then, your prices are high, give me a break, and, can I pay you later?


That is part of my concern too; it's easy to say that it's ok to charge a premium for buying a part after hours, but I know plenty of customers who would flip out on us if we charged a $20 premium for driving in to sell a $20 solenoid. The fact that they could have bought one the day before and kept it in their glove compartment would not be an issue.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

At one time, I brought home a small selection of parts, like hoses, solenoids, and controllers, for customers that knew me personally. 

I considered doing it on a larger scale, but figured it would end badly as inevitably someone was going to be expecting me to change their hose for them in my driveway in the snow and I don't touch tools myself.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> Wow! I can't even imagine the s--t storm that would befall online us if I tried to charge a customer $20 for me to "see if I had a part", let alone $200.


Maybe you should try it...

My business model came from my mechanic.

"We will not be the cheapest... nor do I try to be or even want to be"

Best part is, my company has such a great repor with with the quality and level of workmanship that now, I flat out ask people now before I even go look at a job for a cold call. "Who else are you getting bids from?" If they give me the names of my competitors from town, I respectfully decline the invite. If they ask why I nicely explain that I am not going to compete for chicken scratch.

I guess what I am saying here is if you offer something that no one else offers, why should you not be able to be rewarded for it???


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> That is part of my concern too; it's easy to say that it's ok to charge a premium for buying a part after hours, but I know plenty of customers who would flip out on us if we charged a $20 premium for driving in to sell a $20 solenoid. The fact that they could have bought one the day before and kept it in their glove compartment would not be an issue.


Tell them to go get it elsewhere then...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Tell them to go get it elsewhere then...


Allow me to introduce you to the internet


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> Allow me to introduce you to the internet


The internet has the part in front of them so they can go back to what makes them money?????

No... I don't know of such internet...

A bird in the hand or something like that?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Maybe you should try it...
> 
> My business model came from my mechanic.
> 
> ...


We've been doing that on larger jobs, for the exact same reason.

Same reason I did that for a couple accounts last year: "Are you going to follow specs, because the current contractor isn't".

"That's the problem."

"Your bid is quite a bit higher than the other one."

"Yeah, we bid according to specs and perform the work according to specs."

Now it's just crickets. I wasn't holding my breath. And I had the numbers, just had to update a few things so it wasn't more than an hour of my time.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Allow me to introduce you to the internet


Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.


BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> The internet has the part in front of them so they can go back to what makes them money?????
> 
> No... I don't know of such internet...
> 
> A bird in the hand or something like that?


No, I meant the internet as in that place where everyone goes to whine, rant, complain, and bad mouth those bastard unfair dealers and their price gouging practices


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.


I literally had that sign hanging behind me up until about 3 months ago. Most people found it amusing but those who didn't plan, not so much.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> No, I meant the internet as in that place where everyone goes to whine, rant, complain, and bad mouth those bastard unfair dealers and their price gouging practices


I don't disagree with them...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I'm going to blow your mind here...

This is the "big hitter" that I was speaking of.

They have a card that they hand out to contractors. There is one on the visor of every one of my vans/ trucks. It clearly outlines the terms on the bottom of the card. Has the home numbers of employees to come open up the shop for you.

Sad part is I have gladly paid the $125 more than 1 time. When you have the water shut down at a hospital, $125 on a Sunday night is a drop in the bucket in the grand picture.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> I literally had that sign hanging behind me up until about 3 months ago. Most people found it amusing but those who didn't plan, not so much.


You're never going to get a lot of plow jockeys to grasp this concept. Even some dealers.

I know of a dealer who performed off season service on plows and performed some upgrades. He went on and on about how plowers in his area waited until there was snow on the ground to mount their plows. Then it was an emergency because it wouldn't work. I brought some plows to him in mid-April for him to work on over the summer. Finally told him I would be there on October 31 to pick them up. When I got there, one was just being completed and another one needed to be completely serviced.

So it's not just the plow jockeys.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You're never going to get a lot of plow jockeys to grasp this concept. Even some dealers.
> 
> I know of a dealer who performed off season service on plows and performed some upgrades. He went on and on about how plowers in his area waited until there was snow on the ground to mount their plows. Then it was an emergency because it wouldn't work. I brought some plows to him in mid-April for him to work on over the summer. Finally told him I would be there on October 31 to pick them up. When I got there, one was just being completed and another one needed to be completely serviced.
> 
> So it's not just the plow jockeys.


Sounds just like farming...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> He went on and on about how plowers in his area waited until there was snow on the ground to mount their plows. Then it was an emergency because it wouldn't work.


It always amazes me when someone comes in with their plow totally non-functional as it starts snowing for the first time in, like, February, and that's the first time they've actually looked at their plow since the prior season. And when they found out that I can't get it in to look at RIGHT THAT MINUTE, I get the inevitable response of "Don't you know it's going to snow today!"


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

And just so you guys have some small pity for your local plow dealer who has to plan ahead; as I'm typing this I'm busy multitasking at putting together my orders for both BOSS and Fisher for next season's plows. 

And thanks to the way the pricing is structured, I have about 2 weeks to do so if I don't want to miss out on significant discounts.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> as I'm typing this I'm busy multitasking at putting together my orders for both BOSS and Fisher for next season's plows.


Sure...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> And just so you guys have some small pity for your local plow dealer who has to plan ahead; as I'm typing this I'm busy multitasking at putting together my orders for both BOSS and Fisher for next season's plows.
> 
> And thanks to the way the pricing is structured, I have about 2 weeks to do so if I don't want to miss out on significant discounts.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


>


I hope that is playing just for me


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I was going to reserve a shiny new BOSS Shovel for you, but now I'm not gonna.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

cwren2472 said:


> That is part of my concern too; it's easy to say that it's ok to charge a premium for buying a part after hours, but I know plenty of customers who would flip out on us if we charged a $20 premium for driving in to sell a $20 solenoid. The fact that they could have bought one the day before and kept it in their glove compartment would not be an issue.


When I need something NOW! I need it NOW!. I'll gladly pay extra for the part and/or shipping. One time we were building a test fixture in LA on a deadline, and we were designing and building as we went. Almost every day I was buying $10 worth of rivets, huck bolts, or other hardware out of Miami, and paying for a courier to pick them up, get them on the next flight to LA, and deliver them to our office. It didn't matter that the freight was $300. In fact, I was buying them out of Miami because I could order them at 5AM LA time and have them by about 2 or 3 in the afternoon.

If you are selling 3 or 4 hoses a night that would normally be $20, and it costs you $300 to have an employee there (and heat/lights, etc.) Then charge at least $100 per hose.

or charge $20 per hose and an $80 or $100 service fee.

My feeling is if they don't want to pay extra for the part during the night, then tell them they can come back during regular business hours. Suggest that if they do so, they buy at least two.

I don't want to take the thread off topic, but I'll also note that your posts are revealing a flaw in the business you work for. You should not be indispensable. If you don't have competent help, then you need to either teach them so they can work unsupervised or get rid of them and find better people. It sounds like if you got laid up in a car crash that the business would collapse. No-one, not the owner, not the manager, etc. should be indispensable.

If you are truly indispensable, then you should be easily able to double or triple your salary for the same reason that if you need a hose or solenoid in the middle of a storm the price is almost irrelevant.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Aerospace Eng said:


> If you don't have competent help, then you need to either teach them so they can work unsupervised or get rid of them and find better people. It sounds like if you got laid up in a car crash that the business would collapse. No-one, not the owner, not the manager, etc. should be indispensable.


I agree.



Aerospace Eng said:


> If you are truly indispensable, then you should be easily able to double or triple your salary for the same reason that if you need a hose or solenoid in the middle of a storm the price is almost irrelevant.


Since I'm not the owner, I can't do much to my salary. But I do OK nonetheless.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

cwren2472 said:


> Since I'm not the owner, I can't do much to my salary. But I do OK nonetheless.


If you can't do much to your salary, then you aren't indispensable.

If you are truly indispensable you should be able to say give me a raise to X or I'm leaving and he would have no choice.

You should be getting paid whatever he would have to pay someone to come in and replace you.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

So here is how I see this working best for you.

I have a sewer and water supplier that does it this way. If you call a guy in, he gets the $100 that it costs to get him out of bed. Supplier does not hit you for anything additional on the parts, but they could... I would pay it.

Put a sign up at your parts counter and make some business cards with emergency number. If it takes $50, $100, $150 to get you out of bed, and get the shop open, put it right out in the open. Make it clear that if we are going to open up, there will be a large charge added to the bill.

Customers have the choice at that point... pay up... or shut up and wait till the am.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Philbilly2 said:


> So here is how I see this working best for you.
> 
> I have a sewer and water supplier that does it this way. If you call a guy in, he gets the $100 that it costs to get him out of bed. Supplier does not hit you for anything additional on the parts, but they could... I would pay it.
> 
> ...


Also make it clear that if someone else comes in needing the part, you will sell it. If you have 2 spare solenoids, and they get sold before the person who didn't want to pay extra comes back, too bad.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

And I also think you are thinking about this in to small of a scale. 

Lets just say if a truck fetches $100hr to sub contract for easy math. If you blow a hose and don't have a spare (because your a moron) it costs you $100 for every hour that you are not out there plowing... 

So you blow a hose at 10pm and the dealer opens at 8am. You have 3 options. Find a buddy with a hose, pay a open up price of say $100, or sit on your thumb for 10 hours.

Now that $100 open up charge seems small when you just lost $1000 because you don't want to give a parts dealer $100 to wreck that parts guys slumber...

Smelling what I stepped in??


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> And I also think you are thinking about this in to small of a scale.
> 
> Lets just say if a truck fetches $100hr to sub contract for easy math. If you blow a hose and don't have a spare (because your a moron) it costs you $100 for every hour that you are not out there plowing...
> 
> ...


I think you might be giving too mulch credit to plow jockeys...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> And I also think you are thinking about this in to small of a scale.
> 
> Lets just say if a truck fetches $100hr to sub contract for easy math. If you blow a hose and don't have a spare (because your a moron) it costs you $100 for every hour that you are not out there plowing...
> 
> ...


I get what your saying, but do I drive home and back each time in the storm for the $100 to come sell the hose? Or do I stay at the shop and tell people "Yes, I know we are open, but it you want to come in right now it'll cost you an extra $100." I'm not even sure that's legal, let alone ethical. Or I hang around in my car down the street until someone calls? I don't really see how it would work out logistically.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> I get what your saying, but do I drive home and back each time in the storm for the $100 to come sell the hose? Or do I stay at the shop and tell people "Yes, I know we are open, but it you want to come in right now it'll cost you an extra $100." I'm not even sure that's legal, let alone ethical. Or I hang around in my car down the street until someone calls? I don't really see how it would work out logistically.


You go home.

It is legal. It is a charge that you have to do to cover operation costs. You are not forcing it upon them, you are giving them the option.

I charge a huge amount to drag my but out of bed at 1 am if a hosptial or school calls with a can't wait till am issue. They know ahead of time that me and my staff are going to be rewarded well for loosing our nights sleep to go help them. If it can wait till am... no charge... simple.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

My Bobcat dealer offers emergency after hours service. They also offer road service. Road service is a $20/hour premium. Not sure what if any they charge for after hours. 

Guess what, when I've got a machine down, and it's snowing, I don't really give a ratsass what they charge me. I need it fixed and I need it fixed now!

Phils example is perfect...a lot of morons in this industry will step over a $100 bill to save a nickel.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Once I needed a skid loader hose made in the middle of a snow storm. No one was open at all. 
The on site service truck guy I could get to come out was going to charge me $250 an hour port to port to drive out, make me a hose, and drive back to his house.

My response... why don't I hear your truck running yet...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Once I needed a skid loader hose made in the middle of a snow storm. No one was open at all.
> The on site service truck guy I could get to come out was going to charge me $250 an hour port to port to drive out, make me a hose, and drive back to his house.
> 
> My response... why don't I hear your truck running yet...


I once had a customer pull a $6 spring piece out of one of my bins and ask me the price. I told him and he said, "Aww, man. I paid $50 for one of these!"

I frowned and said, "really? That seems unbelievable. From who?"

"Oh, well, it was a road service mechanic. He had to fabricate the piece from stock steel. On Sunday."

I explained that that seemed like a bit of an unfair comparison to my piece.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> I explained that that seemed like a bit of an unfair comparison to my piece.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> "Oh, well, it was a road service mechanic. He had to fabricate the piece from stock steel. On Sunday."


And I bet he paid it gladly...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

cwren2472 said:


> I get what your saying, but do I drive home and back each time in the storm for the $100 to come sell the hose? Or do I stay at the shop and tell people "Yes, I know we are open, but it you want to come in right now it'll cost you an extra $100." I'm not even sure that's legal, let alone ethical. Or I hang around in my car down the street until someone calls? I don't really see how it would work out logistically.


As long as it is posted. Do you have the shop labor rate posted? Hear legally your supposed to, but most shops don't.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Randall Ave said:


> As long as it is posted. Do you have the shop labor rate posted? Hear legally your supposed to, but most shops don't.


No, but that's a good idea. I should do that.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Randall Ave said:


> View attachment 179817
> 
> As long as it is posted. Do you have the shop labor rate posted? Hear legally your supposed to, but most shops don't.


I probably wouldn't do business with a shop that didn't have a posted labor rate.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I probably wouldn't do business with a shop that didn't have a posted labor rate.


Not even if they offered you a great price on a new BackPro?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> Not even if they offered you a great price on a new BackPro?


Haha.

I guess it's something that I view as being a given that shops should post their labor rate(s) because every place I've ever worked with does exactly that. I guess if the labor rate was known and clear befofe any work was performed it might be different.

Don't take that to mean I think you specifically are overcharging/dishonest etc. either though.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'm far more concerned with their abilities than hourly rate.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Randall Ave said:


> View attachment 179817
> 
> As long as it is posted. Do you have the shop labor rate posted? Hear legally your supposed to, but most shops don't.


I have mine posted...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm far more concerned with their abilities than hourly rate.


Valid point...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Haha.
> 
> I guess it's something that I view as being a given that shops should post their labor rate(s) because every place I've ever worked with does exactly that. I guess if the labor rate was known and clear befofe any work was performed it might be different.
> 
> Don't take that to mean I think you specifically are overcharging/dishonest etc. either though.


Honestly, it's never come up and I never even thought about it until today. Every customer that comes in to discuss service speaks to me personally and I make clear how much in $$ the job is going to actually cost in advance anyway. Personally, I don't think the "hourly rate" is all that useful - "Here you go. It took us an hour and a half to replace that hose. Here is your bill."


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> Honestly, it's never come up and I never even thought about it until today. Every customer that comes in to discuss service speaks to me personally and I make clear how much in $$ the job is going to actually cost in advance anyway. Personally, I don't think the "hourly rate" is all that useful - "Here you go. It took us an hour and a half to replace that hose. Here is your bill."


Agreed. Pricing jobs up front makes it much more simple. However some things can't be priced up front.

Electrical and hydraulics troubleshooting come to mind...when I worked at a Deere Ag dealer, I saw the same tractor split in half and reassembled about 6 times before they were able to find the internal hydraulic leak causing it to lose hydraulics.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Agreed. Pricing jobs up front makes it much more simple. However some things can't be priced up front.
> 
> Electrical and hydraulics troubleshooting come to mind...when I worked at a Deere Ag dealer, I saw the same tractor split in half and reassembled about 6 times before they were able to find the internal hydraulic leak causing it to lose hydraulics.


My guys sure AF better not need to disassemble something 6 times to diagnose it.

The plow hydraulics and electrics are probably a bit easier to diagnose though.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> My guys sure AF better not need to disassemble something 6 times to diagnose it.
> 
> The plow hydraulics and electrics are probably a bit easier to diagnose though.


200hp 7R Deere row crop tractor. Not quite as simple as snow plows.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm far more concerned with their abilities than hourly rate.


Hourly rate dont mean squat if they cant do the job correct the first time.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> My guys sure AF better not need to disassemble something 6 times to diagnose it.
> 
> The plow hydraulics and electrics are probably a bit easier to diagnose though.


6 times tells me someone didn't know what he was doing. That's completely unacceptable.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Hourly rate dont mean squat if they cant do the job correct the first time.


Eggzactly


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

The problem with "hourly rate" is that people then read things on here, like, "you can swap out a sander clutch in 5 minutes" so then they expect the job to cost 10 bucks or so. Right @John_DeereGreen ?

It's much safer to quote a dollar amount. If my guy screws it up and it takes him 6 times to do it, it's our problem, not theres.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I've used a shop that has a mechanic that can basically do twice as much done as another mechanic...especially when it is diagnosing something because he is extremely knowledgeable. But his hourly rate is pretty high for a non-dealership.

Or I can go to Belle Tyre, they can "align" my vehicle in the same amount of time that another shop can get my vehicle setup to check the alignment. But when I drive oot, I know they have checked and adjusted everything and even components that aren't part of an alignment. They don't just adjust toe-in or whatever to make it look good on paper.

And if either of them does make a mistake, which we all do, they fix it for nothing without me asking.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> 6 times tells me someone didn't know what he was doing. That's completely unacceptable.


Finding an internal hydraulic leak in a tractor with IVT transmission isn't quite like finding a blown hydraulic hose either. I believe they even had a couple people from Deere in to look at it over the course of a couple weeks.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Then there's this. I just got a text, my monday morning appointment no show. Wants to get looked at, NOW. I'm out doing road service work. Told them I will call you when I get back.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I've used a shop that has a mechanic that can basically do twice as much done as another mechanic...especially when it is diagnosing something because he is extremely knowledgeable. But his hourly rate is pretty high for a non-dealership.
> 
> Or I can go to Belle Tyre, they can "align" my vehicle in the same amount of time that another shop can get my vehicle setup to check the alignment. But when I drive oot, I know they have checked and adjusted everything and even components that aren't part of an alignment. They don't just adjust toe-in or whatever to make it look good on paper.
> 
> And if either of them does make a mistake, which we all do, they fix it for nothing without me asking.


Sounds like my buddies shop. He's got one really good mechanic and a couple others that do brakes and oil changes. My friend told me the good guy makes over 6 figures on some sort of commission. I was in there the other day and you could tell this guy was always thinking 3 or 4 steps ahead.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Randall Ave said:


> Then there's this. I just got a text, my monday morning appointment no show. Wants to get looked at, NOW. I'm out doing road service work. Told them I will call you when I get back.


I know that feeling all to well. 

Was suppose to install a H20 meter last Wednesday... didn't happen, then again on Monday, cancelled said Tuesday... nope again. So I said Friday at 7am... they said to early.

I told them to find another contractor. As I said before... Chicken Scratch... not worth my time. Hate to give up local work, but I am tripping over $100 bills to pick up pennies just because it is local work. :hammerhead:


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Sounds like my buddies shop. He's got one really good mechanic and a couple others that do brakes and oil changes. My friend told me the good guy makes over 6 figures on some sort of commission. I was in there the other day and you could tell this guy was always thinking 3 or 4 steps ahead.


Probably works flat rate. Everything is paid by how long the books says it takes to do the work. If the book says it takes 4 hrs. and you can do it in 2 hrs., you get paid for 4 hrs. A good mechanic can make a ton of money working flat rate. Especially once they've been at a place for a while and get to pick and choose the work they want to do.

A friend of mine works on trucks at a local Chevy dealer. He's been there about 20 years now. Makes over $100K a year, has been for years. The kid across the road just started at the dealer ship....he's a bottom feeder.

NYH1.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> And just so you guys have some small pity for your local plow dealer who has to plan ahead; as I'm typing this I'm busy multitasking at putting together my orders for both BOSS and Fisher for next season's plows.
> 
> And thanks to the way the pricing is structured, I have about 2 weeks to do so if I don't want to miss out on significant discounts.


So how about some pricing info,seems to be a big secret what the new mega xls price will be.Maybe first plow over 10K ! MSRP This may call for a big "game change"


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

leigh said:


> So how about some pricing info,seems to be a big secret what the new mega xls price will be.Maybe first plow over 10K ! MSRP This may call for a big "game change"


I try not to quote pricing since all dealers will set there own anyway, but no one is going to sell at MSRP so there probably isn't much harm. And yes, you called it:


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Incidentally, those little asterisks near the old model on the bottom mean "last chance before obsolete"


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> but no one is going to sell at MSRP so there probably isn't much harm.


Ewe'd bee surprized...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Ewe'd bee surprized...


Well, if someone tries to sell you a new plow at ABOVE MSRP, run far, far away.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Well, if someone tries to sell you a new plow at ABOVE MSRP, run far, far away.


It was actually a Metal Pless...I don't remember exact number, not sure it was eggzactly MSRP, but it was close.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> It was actually a Metal Pless...I don't remember exact number, not sure it was eggzactly MSRP, but it was close.


Well, I should have clarified that I was referring to Fisher specifically here. The dealer % discount off of MSRP isn't standardized across the industry.

I've got certain products where the MSRP barely covers my discount plus the freight I have to pay to get the thing in. And then the customer wants to pay for it with their AMEX.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Yikes! I remember having sticker shock when a I paid 5300$ in 2006 for an 810.Paid 6K each for 2 xls's 2 years ago. Be interesting to see what the "real" cost will be when I order the 8611. Funny how plowing rates haven't kept pace with plow pricing !


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

leigh said:


> Yikes! I remember having sticker shock when a I paid 5300$ in 2006 for an 810.Paid 6K each for 2 xls's 2 years ago. Be interesting to see what the "real" cost will be when I order the 8611. Funny how plowing rates haven't kept pace with plow pricing !


I can assure you that you ain't gonna pay $5300 for any of those configurations. Better shake that piggy bank.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> I can assure you that you ain't gonna pay $5300 for any of those configurations. Better shake that piggy bank.


 You mean my wife?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

leigh said:


> You mean my wife?


Sorry, I should have said "suck up to the piggy bank"


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

For those of you interested in plowing statistics and trends, I'm running the numbers of this seasons sales to plan next seasons and I sold twice as many 8.5 XV2 in stainless steel (basically the most expensive 8' configuration available) compared to the base model 8' painted straight blades.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Sorry, I should have said "suck up to the piggy bank"


I'm going to save MJD the time and hassle...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm going to save MJD the time and hassle...


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

leigh said:


> Yikes! I remember having sticker shock when a I paid 5300$ in 2006 for an 810.Paid 6K each for 2 xls's 2 years ago. Be interesting to see what the "real" cost will be when I order the 8611. Funny how plowing rates haven't kept pace with plow pricing !


Same with mowers


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I didn't even read the thread yet, BUT HOW DID I MISS THIS ONE?!

Hours are extremely important! I have yet to have a break down during regular business hours. All my dealers are 8-5 for regular hours. I don't mind that as much, but would prefer them to be open until 6. That way if I'm busy working, I still have time after the crew is gone to get there. I won't harp on that though, because I know the guys at the shop have families to get home to also.

My biggest thing is the emergence hours. If you decide you want to become a snowplow dealer, you need snowplow hours. And honor those hours.

Both my meyer dealer and my boss dealer have emergency hours. I have yet to actually see them open during a storm. I'm not sure what "emergency" means to them, but apparently it's not an ice storm, or 2" of snow.

My Meyer dealer is supposed to leave the phone number of the guy on call on their answering service, but out of 4 attempts I have yet to ever get a number. If it were true, the way they do it is you call the guy, pay a $70 emergency fee for them coming in, and full price for the service or part. If you bought the plow or spreader from them, the fee is waved. If I was in a jam that I need the dealer at 2am, I have no problem at all paying a fee.

Now my boss dealer is supposed to have multiple guys in the shop 24 hours during a storm. They actually brag about being the only shop that you don't have to wait on someone to come in. Well that seemed to be as big of a joke as them fixing my spreader. The best I got from them during the multiple days of issues I took that spreader in for was they opened an hour early at 7 instead of 8.

If anything, it's taught me to listen to this guys here on plowsite and buy parts for everything. I'm still from the mindset of a man's word means everything to me, and when I trust you to be open, you need to be open.

Now I need to read through the 6 pages on here. I'm sure everything is mentioned has already been covered.

Edit: I will also add that weekend hours, even for a couple hours, would be awesome


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Reading through here (after getting distracted a few times with the movie on tv), I have a couple things to add.

Hourly rate doesn't matter to me, the service, how you treat me as a customer, and the outcome does. If my truck sits in your shop for 6 days and you treat me like crap, just to figure out a module, yeah I'm not going to be happy about paying a large hourly rate. Now if you get me in and out and back doing my work has fast as possible, I will gladly pay any kind of after hours fees, added part fees, whatever.

I think anyone expecting to get a business to open their doors after hours, get a roadside service, or asked to be bumped to the front of the line (as much as possible) should expect to open their wallets pretty wide.


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