# First plow at Wal-Mart



## emeraldgreen (Sep 17, 2004)

Well, we've finished our first plow for local Wal-Mart yesterday. All-in-all, things went well.
We used 3 pick-up plow trucks, and a Salt-dogg spreader. Total plow time for all trucks about 14 hours, used about 16,000 lbs of salt. We ended up with about 4.5" from a Clipper.
Next time we'll have the wings on the plows, just didn't have them done yet.


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## HTI (Oct 26, 2007)

How did you get the contract there? Did you know someone?


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

HTI;448773 said:


> How did you get the contract there? Did you know someone?


He agreed to do the "WAL-MART CHEER"


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## theguynextdoor (Sep 18, 2007)

wow thats a long time for plowing one place. I thought that everyone who did big lots like that used loaders. But i guess not. Isn't that a long way to push snow with just a pick up?


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

4 and a half inches and it took you 14 hours. is that 14 hours combined, or were you there each for 14 hours. what are you getting forthat one, best be a good amount of payup!! well good luck with the rest of the season and get those wings on quick. I bet once you guys get a hang of that place you will drop it down to under 10.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Burkartsplow;448882 said:


> 4 and a half inches and it took you 14 hours. is that 14 hours combined, or were you there each for 14 hours. what are you getting forthat one, best be a good amount of payup!! well good luck with the rest of the season and get those wings on quick. I bet once you guys get a hang of that place you will drop it down to under 10.


Under 10 untill a pickup lays down or they get a heavy wet 12". Do you have a loader?


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## sk187 (Dec 7, 2006)

I have to agree on the loader thing, 3 pickups is just not enough for a walmart parking lot.

When you get a massive snow or the wet stuff those pickups will be next to useless on a long push.

If it took you 14hrs to plow with 3 trucks thats way to long.

If it took you 4.3333 hrs with each of the 3 trucks thats alright but still pushing it on time with a busy place like walmart.

Personally we plow over 2million sq ft in under 5 hrs, its probably a little bigger then the walmart parking lot but if you want to see what we use go to

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=52151 .

good luck with the season


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Sk, there hasn't been any mentionable snow yet. I'd hope you did it that one nite in under five hours. One and a half of slush isn't 4.5 of powder.


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## sk187 (Dec 7, 2006)

framer1901;448949 said:


> Sk, there hasn't been any mentionable snow yet. I'd hope you did it that one nite in under five hours. One and a half of slush isn't 4.5 of powder.


Slush pushes alot harder then powder.

I know plow time will vary but to me chasing down slush will take more then powder, never even had a chance to fill up those big push boxes yet.


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## kipcom (Feb 3, 2001)

We plow lots much larger than a wal-mart lot and never use push boxes. Loaders are only used if we need to move snow due to multiple snows.

Ok, so our plow operators are highly skilled pros when it comes to plowing snow.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

When I worked for other companies we plowed Wal-Marts, Lowe's and things of that size with trucks. There were more than 3 trucks on site, more like 5 or 6 plus maybe a skid steer but it can be done and probably better results. The one loader used where I was left 2 inches of tire marks so we had to go back and clean his mess up.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Spoken with years of experience - have fun


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## sk187 (Dec 7, 2006)

framer1901;449058 said:


> Spoken with years of experience - have fun


stop by anytime


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## digit (Sep 15, 2005)

I hope that was 14 hrs. combined because if it was for each truck you could be much more efficient with a wheel loader and a box pusher. I can't believe the management does'
nt complain about having you on site that long for only a four inch snow.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

seems like lots of salt...... if you use treated(geomelt 55) you could probably get by with 1 ton..


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## LIBERTYLANDSCAP (Dec 2, 2005)

emeraldgreen;448702 said:


> Total plow time for all trucks about 14 hours.


Looks like he ALREADY answerd that question... 14 Hrs. TOTAL


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Jay brown;449133 said:


> seems like lots of salt...... if you use treated(geomelt 55) you could probably get by with 1 ton..


one ton come on ! ! Ive never plowed a walmart but i would say there average 200,000 sq ft for a little one to 350,000 sq ft for a super walmart. Now im no expert (well i know a little)but ther is no way you could get away with 1 ton of any treated salt. I would think you would use between 4-8 tons from the smallest to the largest lot. So he may have put a little to much down but i would'nt think he that far off.

Now. i would not touch that lot without a decent loader. Trucks are old school


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

try a truck during business hours clearing lanes and starting the push toward the back of the parking area. Couple Hours before close get a loader going starting in the back of the store then the back of the parking lots where people are less inclined to park and you have what was pushed down from the truck earlier. Once it closes you should be out of their within a few hours as long your not doing removal that day too.
I wouldnt just use trucks it makes for lower piles that are wider and take up more space without being able to do the same job as a loader. Your saving time by using the truck to push it down the lanes for the loader to grab at the end and saving time again by not expecting the truck to cross the whole lot for the entire thing and utilizing the wider box on the loader. with a loader you could go one truck during business hours and add another if you needed to after business hours during cleanup. Dont forget to clear a place for the night shift to park and make sure they move there cars there. lol.
just my thoughts.


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## f250man (Jan 28, 2005)

Are walmart let a local snow plow operator get away with 4 trucks after the contract stated that he use loaders with 14' pusher boxes. Well to say the least he did not do it last year my buddy excavation company did. I know for a fact that most walmart contracts call for loaders and pusher boxes. Since I bid are walmart 2 years ago.


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## tjlands (Sep 29, 2005)

Superior L & L;449166 said:


> one ton come on ! ! Ive never plowed a walmart but i would say there average 200,000 sq ft for a little one to 350,000 sq ft for a super walmart. Now im no expert (well i know a little)but ther is no way you could get away with 1 ton of any treated salt. I would think you would use between 4-8 tons from the smallest to the largest lot. So he may have put a little to much down but i would'nt think he that fa


Even treated salt I think 10 tons by the time your done with one storm. Most of the time
we are treating as the snow starts and then again as you get buildup around parked cars and then after plowing. I use one ton for one Bank....sometimes.


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

we've been plowing our super-mart for years and the shopping center near it is owned by the same company, and there is NO stipulations on what equipment must be used, they just let us do whatever we want to do, but we've been doing it for years and others has bid it cheaper than us, so we must be doing something right?


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## emeraldgreen (Sep 17, 2004)

Wow, lots of input here, some even valuable. Thanks to Liberty for reading thoroughly and seeing that the 14 hrs was total, combined for all trucks, not each truck, before offering his wisdom. There is no stipulation on equipment as Powerjoke pointed out. Although, we have quoted pricing for each individual piece of equipment, should the need arise, as I am sure it will. We did our homework first, before taking the big leap into business with Wal-Mart, and feel confident that we can satisfy their needs.
Thanks for all the input.


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## Duracutter (Oct 25, 2006)

theguynextdoor;448877 said:


> wow thats a long time for plowing one place. I thought that everyone who did big lots like that used loaders. But i guess not. Isn't that a long way to push snow with just a pick up?


Yeah, I had the same thought. Myself, I think trucks are only really efficient in driveways.
Big lots are best done by skidsteer/loaders/graders.

I still can't wrap my mind around a pickup truck in a large parking lot. No downforce to speak of... Can't pile it worth a damn  and worse of all, trucks usually charge per occurence, not by the hour. A recipe for the poorhouse I say.

Here we charge by the hour for everything we do...payup

Best way to go, and man is lunch hour sweet...sitting, eating in a restaurant while were paid.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Duracutter;449275 said:


> Yeah, I had the same thought. Myself, I think trucks are only really efficient in driveways.
> Big lots are best done by skidsteer/loaders/graders.
> 
> I still can't wrap my mind around a pickup truck in a large parking lot. No downforce to speak of... Can't pile it worth a damn  and worse of all, trucks usually charge per occurence, not by the hour. A recipe for the poorhouse I say.
> ...


too much traffic and closed quarters for a loader to be effective on its own. Need the truck to do main traffic lanes and side lanes in parking lot as well as laying salt. 
truck then serves to stage the snow for the loader. i dont think any store would like the idea of someone trying to fit a loader with a box between rows of cars with pedestrians walking through all day. not to mention the stray shopping carts the loader would have to try to maneuver around.
loader is only good for pushing staged snow, final cleanup and EMPTY sections of the lot. Also on the receiving dock on the smaller walmarts. Loaders wont always fit. have to use truck to drag the snow out and salt so the rigs doing delivery dont get stuck on the down ramp.


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## 92XT (Nov 30, 2007)

emeraldgreen;448702 said:


> Well, we've finished our first plow for local Wal-Mart yesterday. All-in-all, things went well.
> We used 3 pick-up plow trucks, and a Salt-dogg spreader. Total plow time for all trucks about 14 hours, used about 16,000 lbs of salt. We ended up with about 4.5" from a Clipper.
> Next time we'll have the wings on the plows, just didn't have them done yet.


whays your game plan for ..............16''?


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## emeraldgreen (Sep 17, 2004)

As I said, we are confident that we can handle the lot, otherwise I wouldn't have bid. We live in a small community, bad talk travels fast, but so does good. We've been in landscape and snow removal since 04, and have never advertised, and don't plan to.
All equipment is bid on a per hour basis, even the trucks.
As far as 16", we keep plowing, and call in 2 Case loaders and 2 skid loaders, and a ex-military duece and 1/2.
Wal-Mart is not hard to please, just be there when it snows, do your job at keeping the lanes clear, and then clean it up at night.


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## f250man (Jan 28, 2005)

Well each walmart must be different. Since ares opened they have wanted just loaders to clear it as per contract. My buddy's never had a problem with them or his loaders.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

powerjoke;449196 said:


> we've been plowing our super-mart for years and the shopping center near it is owned by the same company, and there is NO stipulations on what equipment must be used, they just let us do whatever we want to do, but we've been doing it for years and others has bid it cheaper than us, so we must be doing something right?


They let you use what you use what you want because they havn't had any problems yet.We know you have the equipment anyway. Most of our contaracts state heavy equipment and they don't mean skid steers. I'm sorry if I sounded harsh Emerald Green, I might be taking my local fustration out on you. We've had a couple light winters around here and everybody with a few pickups thinks he can plow large lots now. This is the main reason I like 12"'s of heavy wet snow. I'm also not sure how much snow you get in PA. Good luck this winter.

Jay Brown your joking about the 1 ton right.


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in, just to stir the pot some more.

I mow a Super Wal-Mart, and shop at another.

All that's used around here are pickups.

There's a loader onsite to stack piles, and a skid steer to do the sidewalks.

If you get a 16" storm, there's more pickups onsite.

I'm glad some of you guys think that it's the loader way or no way.........


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

not joking at all about using 1 ton on a "clean" parking lot......have you ever used geomelt 55??? it is hot stuff......


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

LwnmwrMan22;449608 said:


> I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in, just to stir the pot some more.
> 
> I mow a Super Wal-Mart, and shop at another.
> 
> ...


You just said there's a loader on site and a skid steer, so what's this loader way or no way. Pickups have there place and if that's what you have use them. Pickups are more prone to break downs and when it really snows you need a loader anyway. As long as you have a loader available between a few sites I think you'll be OK. I've been around a few years and I've seen what can happen when all you have is pickups. JMO


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

JD Dave;449663 said:


> You just said there's a loader on site and a skid steer, so what's this loader way or no way. Pickups have there place and if that's what you have use them. Pickups are more prone to break downs and when it really snows you need a loader anyway. As long as you have a loader available between a few sites I think you'll be OK. I've been around a few years and I've seen what can happen when all you have is pickups. JMO


Correct..... but if you go back and read the posts, there's many that infer that there's no reason the guy should even have a pickup on the lot.

The loader here is used only to stack the snow, not with a pusher on the front.


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

looks like you stirred the pot.


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## fordzilla1155 (Jan 10, 2004)

Is this a 24 hour supercenter?


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

emeraldgreen;449478 said:


> As I said, we are confident that we can handle the lot, otherwise I wouldn't have bid. We live in a small community, bad talk travels fast, but so does good. We've been in landscape and snow removal since 04, and have never advertised, and don't plan to.
> All equipment is bid on a per hour basis, even the trucks.
> As far as 16", we keep plowing, and call in 2 Case loaders and 2 skid loaders, and a ex-military duece and 1/2.
> Wal-Mart is not hard to please, just be there when it snows, do your job at keeping the lanes clear, and then clean it up at night.


you sound like you doing fine..... walmart is not hard to please at all you should see the one here....they try to get by with spending very very very little $$$$$. if your working on their lot it'll make them happy no matter how long it takes. BTW on the 16" of snow thing......if we get 16" of snow our whole town will be shut down for 2 days.....


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

fordzilla1155;449758 said:


> Is this a 24 hour supercenter?


i thought they all were? might be a few "old" ones left


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

LwnmwrMan22;449705 said:


> Correct..... but if you go back and read the posts, there's many that infer that there's no reason the guy should even have a pickup on the lot.
> 
> The loader here is used only to stack the snow, not with a pusher on the front.


I'll agree....................


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

JD Dave;449766 said:


> I'll agree....................


i'm lost. I don't see why you wouldnt want a loader with a pusher.
save time.
too each their own.
I think we all could have had the lot cleared by now twenty times with how much time is put into this thread. Sometimes is easier just doing it and getting it done?


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## haligan125 (Dec 17, 2003)

I can see both sides of the argument. However, I would think that a loader would be much more versitile. It is larger has the ability to articulate, and you can see everything. Also acomplish many of the same things with a loader that you can a truck. You can get a blade for the front, and a wing if you wanted. a push to mve your windrows, and then a snow bucket to stack, and/or load trucks if need be. The newer Deere's have the hand's free disconncets for the buckets, and you dont have to chain your push to the bucket for quick transformation from a push to a loader. We use loaders on all of our municipal lots, as well as our dead end streets. It beats putting a larger dump truck in them, especially a wheeler, and it puts the snow in a better place than driveways. 

As far as salt. And this is for a traveled road situation, although i would think a Walmart lot in the day would have an equal amount of traffic, We aplly a 50/50 mix on our roads our first pass, in order to hopefully break the snow up from the road. The traffic will help meal it in. During a strom we run straight sand as it gives better traction than salt, and then we try to burn off the rest with anoth 50/50 at the end, usually we make this load "HOT" by either adding calcium, or an extrat bucket of salt.


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

f250man;449173 said:


> Are walmart let a local snow plow operator get away with 4 trucks after the contract stated that he use loaders with 14' pusher boxes. Well to say the least he did not do it last year my buddy excavation company did. I know for a fact that most walmart contracts call for loaders and pusher boxes. Since I bid are walmart 2 years ago.


WalMart has NO such requirements as to what equipment that you use to clear parking lots. I have a contract with them.Only requirement is plowing is to start at 2 inch accumilation and be done by 8 am on overnight snowfalls.And it should be coordinated with the store manager.We plow at 1 inch acc. All this is up to manager request and preference. I have a loader with box plow onsite that I own, its a real time saver on the big lots and a necessity for carrying snow to far end of lot. Some guys just push the snow to closest parking islands or whatever. Most shopping centers dont want there parking spaces used up for snow storage.


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

tjlands;449191 said:


> Even treated salt I think 10 tons by the time your done with one storm. Most of the time
> we are treating as the snow starts and then again as you get buildup around parked cars and then after plowing. I use one ton for one Bank....sometimes.


one ton for one bank, now that is a little overboard. average bank size 40000 sq ft or so and you put down a ton of salt. well to each there own.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

bribrius;449778 said:


> i'm lost. I don't see why you wouldnt want a loader with a pusher.
> save time.
> too each their own.
> I think we all could have had the lot cleared by now twenty times with how much time is put into this thread. Sometimes is easier just doing it and getting it done?


We all have different idea's of how things can be done and our way isn't always the right way, it's just the way we've always done things. Give me an 18 ft Daniel's or a 16 ft box like on Big Red and I'll do the same as 4 pickups on every storm over 4"s and the snow will all be put in it's proper places and stacked at the same time. Emerald has pickups so that's what he's using so this works for him. As far as having a loader for just stacking is stupid, you might as well throw a pusher on and plow and stack at the same time. JMO


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Burkartsplow;449884 said:


> one ton for one bank, now that is a little overboard. average bank size 40000 sq ft or so and you put down a ton of salt. well to each there own.


I didn't catch that the first time.

I will say however, that with doing 7 banks of my own, that there's VERY different sizes to banks, depending on location, total lot acreage (not just parking lot), etc.

One ton would be an entire pallet of bagged salt, so yes, I would agree that in general, that 1 ton for a bank would be overkill. However, he did have a "....... sometimes" at the end of that statement, and I could see that "....... sometimes" it would call for a ton. Probably not all at one time, but over the course of a very icy event, yes.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Jay brown;449629 said:


> not joking at all about using 1 ton on a "clean" parking lot......have you ever used geomelt 55??? it is hot stuff......


What exactly is Geomelt 55? And are you talking about pretreating a 4-8 acre lot with 1 ton of this? I just want to make sure I'm clear with the facts. Thanks


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## digit (Sep 15, 2005)

If a loader is used in combination with a push box it is very efficient i can't imagine any one using a loader without for clearing snow if they are it's a waste of time. At an 8 acre parking lot we put a backhoe with a 12' pusher in for clearing snow and a pichup for half an hour for loading ramps and corners. During the day if we get a snow during the day we will only use the loader. Everyone has ther own opion but I feel much safer haveing one loader clearing than I would with 4 trucks much less liability and better visibility.


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## emeraldgreen (Sep 17, 2004)

JD, not to worry, you're telling me from your experience and I'm telling you from mine. We certainly do not get very many 8" plus snows in my area, usually more like 4"-8". About every 5 or 6 years we'll get a good dump, and in that event, we have access to the equipment we need to get the job done, and when that does happen, our town will be shut down for days.
Also, while our Wal-mart is a 24 hr super center, it is relatively small compared to most, and the lot is never more than 1/3 to 1/2 full.
Last year we serviced the Applebees next door, and watched the other company do Lowes, and then make a few swipes around Wal-mart and leave, NEVER cleaning the lot as a whole, sometimes not even touching it. I left a card with the service desk for the manager, who called me 3 days later, gave us the contract for landscape and snow, said all we really had to do was show up and do something with the snow, and it would be 100% better, LOL.


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

SK187 I run a similar program that you do the only thing I would change is a larger 2speed skidloader with a 12 ft angle blade to kick it out to the boxes much faster we have found


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

JD Dave;449917 said:


> What exactly is Geomelt 55? And are you talking about pretreating a 4-8 acre lot with 1 ton of this? I just want to make sure I'm clear with the facts. Thanks


geomelt55 is a sugar beat mixture sprayed on salt...and yes here in nw missouri 1 ton of geomelt55/salt would be plenty for 4-8 acres after the snow had been cleared and the storm was over. they probably use about 8 ton the whole season at the local super center here. the only reason i could think you might use so much more is the temp difference. usually it's around 25-32 deg here during a snow event.


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## sk187 (Dec 7, 2006)

SNOWLORD;450061 said:


> SK187 I run a similar program that you do the only thing I would change is a larger 2speed skidloader with a 12 ft angle blade to kick it out to the boxes much faster we have found


It is a 2 speed skid steer. The reason I went with a 8' is that in the summer we use it for grading things in the excavation field and anything over 8' would be way to wide. Also, many places at this mall cannot fit much over a 8' blade between objects. The 8' just kicks the snow away from curbs and pulls snow out of tight areas.

A 12' would be nice on alot of things but the cost and applications we use it for all fit the 8'.

Thanks for the comments.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Jay brown;450212 said:


> geomelt55 is a sugar beat mixture sprayed on salt...and yes here in nw missouri 1 ton of geomelt55/salt would be plenty for 4-8 acres after the snow had been cleared and the storm was over. they probably use about 8 ton the whole season at the local super center here. the only reason i could think you might use so much more is the temp difference. usually it's around 25-32 deg here during a snow event.


Temp does make a big diff both ground and air.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

emeraldgreen;450057 said:


> JD, not to worry, you're telling me from your experience and I'm telling you from mine. We certainly do not get very many 8" plus snows in my area, usually more like 4"-8". About every 5 or 6 years we'll get a good dump, and in that event, we have access to the equipment we need to get the job done, and when that does happen, our town will be shut down for days.
> Also, while our Wal-mart is a 24 hr super center, it is relatively small compared to most, and the lot is never more than 1/3 to 1/2 full.
> Last year we serviced the Applebees next door, and watched the other company do Lowes, and then make a few swipes around Wal-mart and leave, NEVER cleaning the lot as a whole, sometimes not even touching it. I left a card with the service desk for the manager, who called me 3 days later, gave us the contract for landscape and snow, said all we really had to do was show up and do something with the snow, and it would be 100% better, LOL.


That's definatetly a good contract to have and I'm sure you'll do a good job. I still have to remember that every area is different in so many. Good Luck this winter!


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## tjlands (Sep 29, 2005)

LwnmwrMan22;449908 said:


> I didn't catch that the first time.
> 
> I will say however, that with doing 7 banks of my own, that there's VERY different sizes to banks, depending on location, total lot acreage (not just parking lot), etc.
> 
> One ton would be an entire pallet of bagged salt, so yes, I would agree that in general, that 1 ton for a bank would be overkill. However, he did have a "....... sometimes" at the end of that statement, and I could see that "....... sometimes" it would call for a ton. Probably not all at one time, but over the course of a very icy event, yes.


We salt the lot and treat walks at the beginning of any event and then after plowing so it is easy to go thru a ton of bulk salt thru a V-box for a single bank. (cost $60 ton). We go thru 20-25 tons a storm, on average.


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## tree bizz (Dec 27, 2007)

*wal-mart's cheap*



emeraldgreen;449478 said:


> As I said, we are confident that we can handle the lot, otherwise I wouldn't have bid. We live in a small community, bad talk travels fast, but so does good. We've been in landscape and snow removal since 04, and have never advertised, and don't plan to.
> All equipment is bid on a per hour basis, even the trucks.
> As far as 16", we keep plowing, and call in 2 Case loaders and 2 skid loaders, and a ex-military duece and 1/2.
> Wal-Mart is not hard to please, just be there when it snows, do your job at keeping the lanes clear, and then clean it up at night.


We bid a wal-mart for snow removal and it was a total joke.They wanted a bid for 2" or more and salting.The guy that got the bid(and still has it 2 yrs. later)is the king of hacks!! I watched him make 3 passes in front of the entrances only,then park the truck and leave.He came back later and tried to burn 3" off with salt.I watched his spreader clank and bang and throw a little salt out here and there.In the end all he did was make a big mess of slush.The store manager was complaining about this guy back when we bid it!The bottom line is Wal-mart is cheap I heard the same kind of story about a Wal-mart 20 miles from me.I think anyone plowing a Wal-mart is definitely not getting enough money.They just won't pay what it takes,and there's always someone who will do it for damn near cost!They wanted a fixed bid price for whatever it took to move snow.You could'nt give them a per truck per hr. price or anything like that.Obviously you had to figure out your hrs. based on sq. ft. salt by the ton and etc.There were four bidders we were the second lowest,obviously he was the lowest and he beat us by half !!! Moron! Moron! Moron! may the square A coils of a thousand meyers plaque him for eternity !!!!!


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

WELL EMARALD HOPEFULLY YOU WILL GET ENOUGH SNOW AND MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO BUY A LOADER WITH A PUSHBOX THATS AN AWESOME CONTRACT YOU GOT THERE BECAUSE YOU KNOW WALMART ISNT GOING ANYWHERE !!!!!!!!! GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY PLOWING :salute:payuppayup


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## tree bizz (Dec 27, 2007)

I wasn't directing that post at emerald.I was just expressing my aggravation towards wal-mart that's all....To anyone who can make money from them I say LET IT SNOW !!


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## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

from what i seen of walmart he did really good job, alot better job then last guy did. 

emeraldgreen if you need help all you have to do is say something. i'm not doing alot of plowing, and i know of atleast one other guy that has a plow truck, that is not doing nothing this year...


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## cornbinder (Oct 16, 2005)

Duracutter;449275 said:


> Yeah, I had the same thought. Myself, I think trucks are only really efficient in driveways.
> Big lots are best done by skidsteer/loaders/graders.
> 
> I still can't wrap my mind around a pickup truck in a large parking lot. No downforce to speak of... Can't pile it worth a damn  and worse of all, trucks usually charge per occurence, not by the hour. A recipe for the poorhouse I say.
> ...


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

cornbinder;473566 said:


> Duracutter;449275 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I had the same thought. Myself, I think trucks are only really efficient in driveways.
> ...


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## emeraldgreen (Sep 17, 2004)

Well, I'm surprised to see this thread is still active. All is going well so far, although we haven't really had much to do but throw salt, as the last 2 (non)events were light sleet/snow mix. I think after our January thaw ( i expect temps to reach 60 here from 7th-9th) we will go cold again around the 13th, with a larger snow around the 15th.
Rodhall, I will certainly contact you if needed.
Wal-Mart is happy to this point, as are we.


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## BREAULT69 (Jan 15, 2008)

Just joined this forum. I've been doing our local Walmart for 15+ years, last 5 a new Supercenter. They used to lease the property at the old store. The property agency there was very cheap, wanted a half assed job and complained, slow to pay etc. When the current manager was hired back then he would pay us seperately to come back and do a better job. Now at the Supercenter he is very hardcore on snow removal, wants it off whatever it takes. The parking lot has a pretty good slope to it and is thus a slip/fall hazard. He gets reprimanded regularly for what they spend on snow removal and doesn't care. He actually cares about customer safety. My point is Walmart doesn't want to spend money, what company does? However the store manager has the final call and we have a very good manager. We do up to 42 commercial locations and Walmart is my #1 customer ! They have always paid fast also. It takes us around 8 hours to do the initial clear on a 4" snow. We usually return once or twice to re-clean, always cars, semis. rv's etc. in the lot 24 hrs. That usually totals around 12-14 hrs plus snowblower/sidewalk time. We use road gravel on the lot entrances, loadiong dock and mag/chloride on parking area, approx 1 ton does about half the parking areas, which is about all that is used in bad weather. We use an old Michigan 35 loader with a 10' quick attach flink plow from an old state truck and a 1-ton with 7' plow. The loader with very little downforce can clean packed snow to bare asphalt, and being big,yellow,and loud, along with good visibility and maneuverability makes it perfect (safe). The truck just assists the loader. Anyone having problems with a cheap Walmart may need to educate the management on the cost of one elderly person falling and breaking a hip. Prevent one accident like this and it will pay for ten years of high quality snow removal. The future is zero tolerence for slip/fall, and so far our store is on it's second year of no injuries. This might get upper management off the store's back. PS. I have a contract (long process) different hourly rates on all equipment and we send in a very detailed invoice that describes exactly what we did. usually a 2 page attachment. corporate can't argue with that. Way better than getting a $4000.00 dollar invoice that just says "snow removal".


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## kcplowmata (Sep 15, 2007)

i see the point for loaders at walmart. but if a guy doesnt have them. no use in knocking him for plowing with trucks. atleast an american got the job. we push with trucks and we have done some huge lots. yes it is harder to pile but thats all we have for now.and walmart is like all of us if you get service cheaper than more power to you and more dollars in your pocket.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

BREAULT69;487879 said:


> Just joined this forum. I've been doing our local Walmart for 15+ years, last 5 a new Supercenter. They used to lease the property at the old store. The property agency there was very cheap, wanted a half assed job and complained, slow to pay etc. When the current manager was hired back then he would pay us seperately to come back and do a better job. Now at the Supercenter he is very hardcore on snow removal, wants it off whatever it takes. The parking lot has a pretty good slope to it and is thus a slip/fall hazard. He gets reprimanded regularly for what they spend on snow removal and doesn't care. He actually cares about customer safety. My point is Walmart doesn't want to spend money, what company does? However the store manager has the final call and we have a very good manager. We do up to 42 commercial locations and Walmart is my #1 customer ! They have always paid fast also. It takes us around 8 hours to do the initial clear on a 4" snow. We usually return once or twice to re-clean, always cars, semis. rv's etc. in the lot 24 hrs. That usually totals around 12-14 hrs plus snowblower/sidewalk time. We use road gravel on the lot entrances, loadiong dock and mag/chloride on parking area, approx 1 ton does about half the parking areas, which is about all that is used in bad weather. We use an old Michigan 35 loader with a 10' quick attach flink plow from an old state truck and a 1-ton with 7' plow. The loader with very little downforce can clean packed snow to bare asphalt, and being big,yellow,and loud, along with good visibility and maneuverability makes it perfect (safe). The truck just assists the loader. Anyone having problems with a cheap Walmart may need to educate the management on the cost of one elderly person falling and breaking a hip. Prevent one accident like this and it will pay for ten years of high quality snow removal. The future is zero tolerence for slip/fall, and so far our store is on it's second year of no injuries. This might get upper management off the store's back. PS. I have a contract (long process) different hourly rates on all equipment and we send in a very detailed invoice that describes exactly what we did. usually a 2 page attachment. corporate can't argue with that. Way better than getting a $4000.00 dollar invoice that just says "snow removal".


welcome aboard PS....i can't PM you yet but just wondered where your at in KS. sounds like your getting along good with your Wal Mart. total opposite of the one here...it usually always has a snow pack because the manager will not authorize the use of salt because of $$$..i would be pissed if i was the plow contractor there


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## hickslawns (Dec 18, 2004)

We clear snow on 2 Supercenters. We also mow for 2 of them, and sweep parking lots at 3 Super Centers. Tomorrow I am meeting with a fourth store for sweeping. I have read this and now feel like chiming in just because it has been comical to listen in thus far. 

1. How did so many people become experts on what WM contracts and policies are? I mean everyone is an expert. For a company opening new stores approximately 2 out of every 3 days of the year, do you really think every single one of them has the same procedures? Maybe similar guidelines, but trust me, there are vast differences nationwide. Just my opinion. Just like you all had yours. 

2. Contracts? If there is anything corporate wide it would probably be the unwillingness for them to sign contracts. Maybe in remote locations with minimal contractors available to handle their plowing needs they are more willing to commit, but not everywhere nationwide. No signed contract here. Gamble for me, gamble for them. I have held up my end and they have held up theirs for 5 years now. 

3. Trucks only? Sure, it can be done. Trust me on this one, we have done it. However, we also rarely see the massive 12" storms only 3 snows in 5 years over 10". For what it is worth I will offer this as it may be useful to some on here. 24hr stores with massive traffic flow you can take a couple trucks and wind row to the center of the aisle followed by a loader w/box carrying snow to the end of the lot. A skidloader between cars with this combo of trucks wind rowing and backhoe w/box or loader w/box works great. 

4. Equipment requirements? Never heard of such a thing. Not saying it doesn't exist, just not around here. Do we keep their lot clear and accessible? Absolutely, therefore the manager doesn't care if we are using shovels so long as his employees and customers can get in/out as safely as the storm conditions permit.

5. Pricing? I have heard a lot of complaints on here about "cheap". Once again, maybe this is a regional thing. Maybe these are from contractors that don't work for them. Maybe contractors who bid the job and didn't get it assuming it was because they were too high when there may have been other factors involved. Don't get me wrong, our managers don't want to be gouged, but they are realistic as to what it takes to clear their lots. We are fair to them and give them no reasons to look elsewhere. If I tell them I need a little more due to fuel prices or salt increases they understand. I also respect that and increase enough to cover additional costs, not because I want to cover additional costs AND increase profit 10%. Just like them, we all have profit margins in order to stay in business. 

All in all, I just thought I would point out some things overlooked or maybe just a few things stated by those that have never dealt with WM firsthand. I have found this whole thread amusing and comical on some posts. I am by no means an expert, but I can speak on what I have seen firsthand.


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

hickslawns;488028 said:


> We clear snow on 2 Supercenters. We also mow for 2 of them, and sweep parking lots at 3 Super Centers. Tomorrow I am meeting with a fourth store for sweeping. I have read this and now feel like chiming in just because it has been comical to listen in thus far.
> 
> 1. How did so many people become experts on what WM contracts and policies are? I mean everyone is an expert. For a company opening new stores approximately 2 out of every 3 days of the year, do you really think every single one of them has the same procedures? Maybe similar guidelines, but trust me, there are vast differences nationwide. Just my opinion. Just like you all had yours.
> 
> ...


WELL SAID. I have had the very same experience with Walmart over the past 10 years.


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## BREAULT69 (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanks for the welcome aboard, I have already gotten some very good info from this sight. That's why I want to add some when I can. I'm in north central Kansas, Concordia, pop. 5500. You guys have some very good info, this is is where i got the idea to put the 10' plow on my loader. Best advice I've gotten in along time. On the lot Jay mentioned in MO. I can only say my Ins. lists Walmart as a coinsured. Under these terms I wouldn't plow them if they don't authorize de-icer. Somebody is gonna slip and the lawyers will get involved. Then my carrier will drop me and I will be SOL. Hope I don't sound too negative there, but we have hungry lawyers here in Kansas too. I de-ice all my clients or they sign a waiver. Hope it holds up if anything goes wrong. I've seen the parking lots at w/m in other cities. One was so bad I nearly broke an ankle on the 6" deep packed snow pothole ridden walk to the door ! So I agree with Hickslawns, I think there is a big difference from store to store. I am considering bidding on the summer maintenance as well so if any of you guys that do year round work could clue me in on that it would be appreciated. For some reason my Ins. agent said he thought my rates would drop if I do the lawncare as well as snow removal ? I plan to check into that further.


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## tman3007 (Jul 15, 2007)

tree bizz;472459 said:


> We bid a wal-mart for snow removal and it was a total joke.They wanted a bid for 2" or more and salting.The guy that got the bid(and still has it 2 yrs. later)is the king of hacks!! I watched him make 3 passes in front of the entrances only,then park the truck and leave.He came back later and tried to burn 3" off with salt.I watched his spreader clank and bang and throw a little salt out here and there.In the end all he did was make a big mess of slush.The store manager was complaining about this guy back when we bid it!The bottom line is Wal-mart is cheap I heard the same kind of story about a Wal-mart 20 miles from me.I think anyone plowing a Wal-mart is definitely not getting enough money.They just won't pay what it takes,and there's always someone who will do it for damn near cost!They wanted a fixed bid price for whatever it took to move snow.You could'nt give them a per truck per hr. price or anything like that.Obviously you had to figure out your hrs. based on sq. ft. salt by the ton and etc.There were four bidders we were the second lowest,obviously he was the lowest and he beat us by half !!! Moron! Moron! Moron! may the square A coils of a thousand meyers plaque him for eternity !!!!!


 Wow, you are sooooo wrong!!!! We just recently had a Walmart open up in our little mountain town this past summer/fall. Basically just in time for snow removal. They were looking for a company that could offer snow removal, lawn maintenance, parking lot sweeping and winter watering (irrigation is shut off from October 1st thru May 31st) We offered it all and we definitely didn't bid it cheap. They wanted ONE company that could be held accountable for everything and that is why they went with us. Anyways, this has been the biggest cash cow I've come across in my lifetime. Originally they wanted us to plow at a 2" trigger and this was in our contract and we warned them that being at 8500 feet is a little different than what they were used to.

Well, after one storm they were calling us out at a quarter inch and since then have renogotiated our contract with management and they are on zero tolerance and everyone is happy. As far as Walmart being cheap, I just don't understand it. Maybe in some regions of the country the competition drives prices down. But seriously, if I could tell you what I've billed out just in the last 30 days, it would make you cry. And they pay ON TIME, EVERY TIME. payup We do have a pretty cool manager too plus we are meticulous with our work. We are aiming to keep this account for a long, long time.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

there is a HUGE difference from store to store......tman3007 you mentioned parking lot sweeping LOL i would doubt our superWM has ever had their lot swept, maybe with a broom. no one even owns a sweeper here except the city.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

Walmart is so cheep here, they cut my dad's wifes hours down to 30(from 40) because their "sales were slow after christmas" she has benn FT for 5-6 years. i know they have a least 50 part timers working that they could cut!! on a good note i'm glad that some of you all are getting good pay from them!!!


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Jay brown;488281 said:


> Walmart is so cheep here, they cut my dad's wifes hours down to 30(from 40) because their "sales were slow after christmas" she has benn FT for 5-6 years. i know they have a least 50 part timers working that they could cut!! on a good note i'm glad that some of you all are getting good pay from them!!!


I worked for Wal-mart from 1989-1993 and they did that evey year. After Christmas was always very slow compared to the rest of the year, so hours got cut. I worked in a store but I also would do setups for the new stores in the region. Wal-mart is the king when it comes to cheating and screwing with employees. Used to be that anything over 28 hrs is considered full time for Wal-mart. We just had a new Wal-mart distribution center open up here. Our city pulled out all the stops to get them in here because it was going to create hundreds of jobs. They went as far as passing the cost of the water and sewer extension costs on to the citizens. My water and sewer bill went up 40% to cover the costs. After Wal-mart oipened the new distribution center, they broke the news that fulltime workers will not see a full 40 hrs and they will not need to hire as many people as they thought. The ones they hire do not stay there very long. I hate Wal-mart!


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## hickslawns (Dec 18, 2004)

I am glad I am not alone in my thinking. As far as cheap with employees I cannot speak. I know most of the 3rd shift emloyees at least by face if not by name and they have complaints. However, if you talk to someone working at the gas station, working for the government, working for a large auto manufacturer, or working for my company, you WILL find complaints. It is human nature. We all want more for less. We all have things we do not like, cannot change, therefore accept as they are and try to amend as it allows. Please do not confuse being a WM employee, a small business that might have gone under when WM opened in their town, or being someone that simply doesn't like WM, with how they deal with contractors or customer/employee safety.

This is one thing with the internet I have learned: Wade thru the quagmire of opinion (educated or ignorant), read between the lines, and draw your own conclusions. 

Personally, I have work generated 7 days a week from this company and they have been fair with our dealings. Outside my personal experiences, I do not know. However, we all know there are 3 sides to every story. We also know companies vary regionally, and opinions are like. . .well you know everybody has one. Best of luck with your new business ventures, and treat them right because it goes both ways. Treat them right, they send a check for your services!


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

hickslawns;488616 said:


> I am glad I am not alone in my thinking. As far as cheap with employees I cannot speak. I know most of the 3rd shift emloyees at least by face if not by name and they have complaints. However, if you talk to someone working at the gas station, working for the government, working for a large auto manufacturer, or working for my company, you WILL find complaints. It is human nature. We all want more for less. We all have things we do not like, cannot change, therefore accept as they are and try to amend as it allows. Please do not confuse being a WM employee, a small business that might have gone under when WM opened in their town, or being someone that simply doesn't like WM, with how they deal with contractors or customer/employee safety.
> 
> This is one thing with the internet I have learned: Wade thru the quagmire of opinion (educated or ignorant), read between the lines, and draw your own conclusions.
> 
> Personally, I have work generated 7 days a week from this company and they have been fair with our dealings. Outside my personal experiences, I do not know. However, we all know there are 3 sides to every story. We also know companies vary regionally, and opinions are like. . .well you know everybody has one. Best of luck with your new business ventures, and treat them right because it goes both ways. Treat them right, they send a check for your services!


I'm right there with ya Hicks....


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## procut (Dec 1, 2004)

I have never done any work for wal-mart, but I thinik its like a lot of commercial locations, it basically boils down to what the individual manager wants / is willing to budget for.


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