# Salt truck needed did I do okay ??



## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Okay I had a friend offer me this 1999 Chevy C6500. It is super clean not one speck of rust, frame looks about like new a tires are like new too. No bed just a cab and chassis. It has a 12 foot rail and I happen to have a 10 foot dump bed with the hoist from a F 350. It is however steel not stainless. Thinking it will mount up ? My friend also sold me a 10 foot long V box spreader hydraulic driven SS for $ 2000.00.

I have always used smaller one ton spreaders. Be it V boxes or tailgate on dumps.

I was thinking of a tail gate but this being a steel bed I hate to eat it up ???

The bad....it is gasser and a stick shift with 175 k on it. Starts and sounds good. Drives like a dream. I will have to add hydraulics.

*One thing I really like...it is at 24000 gvw so no CDL needed ? Am I right on this ???*

The good....$ 3000.00 for the truck and $ 2000.00 for the spreader.

Any thoughts ???


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

I would say you done alright, I agree on the gas suks, I would assume your not taking any long road trips with it. 3K don't by much of anything that don't need reconditioning. Any decent hyd. spreader is worth 2K. Good Luck with it.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Look at the brake lines for rust, easier to replace now with no body, does it have Lucus Girling brakes? To put central Hydraulics on will be $. A pto drive system works OK, but not much pressure at low rpm. Haven't played with one in a while.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Randall Ave said:


> Look at the brake lines for rust, easier to replace now with no body, does it have Lucus Girling brakes? To put central Hydraulics on will be $. A pto drive system works OK, but not much pressure at low rpm. Haven't played with one in a while.


Yes You will find your self holding the brake and foot on the gas to get a good spread. Maybe you can sell the hyd. and find a good used electric. Just a thought.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

FredG said:


> Yes You will find your self holding the brake and foot on the gas to get a good spread. Maybe you can sell the hyd. and find a good used electric. Just a thought.


I would rather have a good electric system and have no knowledge of them.

Any suggestions ????

And to answer your other question....no long trips just around town 25 miles or 50 round trip. I am guessing about 8 mpg ??


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Randall Ave said:


> Look at the brake lines for rust, easier to replace now with no body, does it have Lucus Girling brakes? To put central Hydraulics on will be $. A pto drive system works OK, but not much pressure at low rpm. Haven't played with one in a while.


Brake lines are like new ! At least what I saw which was at right behind the cab.

I will look deeper when I see it next.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

On a Call said:


> I would rather have a good electric system and have no knowledge of them.
> 
> Any suggestions ????
> 
> And to answer your other question....no long trips just around town 25 miles or 50 round trip. I am guessing about 8 mpg ??


Some of us got pickups doing 8MPG. Hyd. is the way to go if your going to overload it hard. Very expensive. I see know reason electric won't work if you don't beat it up. I know guys that got 12ft electric and love them.


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

If you don't need a dump body i would mount a large 5-8 yard spreader right on the frame rails with a wood buffer in-between for corrosion.
http://www.greenindustrypros.com/product/10743941/buyers-products-co-saltdogg-shpe6000-salt-spreader


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Wood holds water and when it cracks or shrinks the bolts will loosen.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

SnoFarmer said:


> Wood holds water and when it cracks or shrinks the bolts will loosen.


You surprise me at times with your lucid responses..Must be on the on the right mix of meds today...


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Defcon 5 said:


> You surprise me at times with your lucid responses..Must be on the on the right mix of meds today...


3 jacks Scottish ales + 1 glacier ale =

It was such a nice crisp fall day I started early.Thumbs Up


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Anyone else ?


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Because I am about out of Uncle Jim.....


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

The aluminum bodies mounted to my trucks are mounted on 4x4 wood rails, they are over 10 years old now.
If you check yearly you'll be fine.
Same goes for wood floor trailers...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

On a Call said:


> I would rather have a good electric system


Good and electric are oxymorons.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

On the larger spreaders I just don't see the electric ones to have enough breakout power if the salt gets packed in. Also those trucks don't have much of an alternator.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Okay...so I am back to a PTO driving a hydro pump 

Any other options ???


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I'm suprised that everyone has avoided the CDL question...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> I'm suprised that everyone has avoided the CDL question...


His first post states it's 24000 GVW. No CDL needed. If he goes and connects to a trailer, story changes.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> I'm suprised that everyone has avoided the CDL question...


LOL Pay attention Phil, Don't be a FOG like me, :waving:


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

So if I hook up to a 500 lb trailer I am okay ? 

I am not really sure how this reads ??? http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/dl-cdl-classes.aspx

So according to the chart. I am good up to a 10,000 lb trailer ?? Yes ???

Does that include cargo or empty ??

Phil...thank you for bringing it up and Fred I appreciate your mention.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Let's not do a CDL discussion. It will kill the thread in a day. Laws vary from state to state.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

In Ohio, that is correct. Trailer GVW of 10000 or more and it'll be class a Cdl.

Now...back to salt trucks...in my endless searching and looking, it appears as though clutch pump setups are more desirable for salting operations than pto. Seems as though more flow can be had at lower rpm's leading to better performance. Also, it makes no difference where the clutch is, or anything else. Flip a switch, clutch pump kicks in and you have hydraulics indefinitely. 

With that said, I'm far from a hydraulic expert. Talk to an up fitter that knows what they're doing.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Randall Ave said:


> Let's not do a CDL discussion. It will kill the thread in a day. Laws vary from state to state.


Amen Thumbs Up


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Not a cdl humm... I would tend to agree, but a c or b he will need...

Do you guys just generalize a cdl as an a class?

I just believe that the term cdl is improperly used more often than not. You can have c or b class cdl...

Sno gave me a great flow chart years ago, but not at the office today to post it.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Philbilly2 said:


> Not a cdl humm... I would tend to agree, but a c or b he will need...
> 
> Do you guys just generalize a cdl as an a class?
> 
> ...


When you have a minute please forward.

I am going to need flow info.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Some states have different laws, Here you have A, B, C, A is tractor and trailer and need endorsements for haz-mat etc. B is for straight trucks were you also need endorsements, Trailer, People (bus) Air brakes, haz-mat, C passenger cars and light duty like uhals, Motorhomes. Not really sure on weight limits anymore. I'm pretty sure 24K GVW does not require CDL here. My single axle dumps are like 38k GVW with air brakes and do require CDL.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

On a Call said:


> When you have a minute please forward.
> 
> I am going to need flow info.


If sno does not before the am, I will scan and post tommrow. It is on a cdl thread here somewhere,but I have no idea which one...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

FredG said:


> Some states have different laws,
> 
> My single axle dumps are like 38k GVW with air brakes and do require CDL.


Very true

38k w/ air brakes and no cdl or no b class? Truck not in company name or lettered?

I had an a class that was not a cdl for many years, it was for driving the semi at the farm, got an a class cdl when I started working construction, to pull equipment trailers, lost my left eye, and the state pulled the cdl part of my lisence and put me back to an a class. Book reads "70% or better vision in both eyes to maintain cdl"

Your truck in Illinois would require a b class with air brake endorsement. Hook a 10,001lb trailer to it, a class.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

That's What I mean, But here you don't need A class for trailer just a trailer endorsement on the B class. Yes You do need your Biz name a long with DOT #'s on truck. Farm trucks are a little different. NYS is lax on farm trucks, They have to have farm plates tho.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

On a Call said:


> When you have a minute please forward.
> 
> I am going to need flow info.


Do you know how Google works?

Ohio CDL requirements will get you what you need.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Ohio DMV states any truck under 26,001 does not require a CDL. On a call your all set with the GM salt truck. Thumbs Up


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do you know how Google works?
> 
> Ohio/Michigan CDL requirements will get you what you need.


Sure do Mark, where do you think my post regarding CDL's came from. http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/dl-cdl-classes.aspx I did some research to find what it takes. My search provided me with some info that suggested weight ( GVW) plus a trailers weight gives the limits. Anything over causes the need to for a CDL. There are levels or classes for different levels.

I really had no idea, I never had to use heavier trucks. This is new to me.

I was instructed by my friend that anything over 26,000 GVW and a trailer over 10,000 pounds means...CDL.

Now how many trucks in that class do you run ?


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

BTW...Michigan sure seems to go after those smaller companies that run over the limits. Or, at least come close.

After 35 years in business I have never had a problem with Ohio. However with my limited time in Michigan I have had three times that gave me a head ache. Each time I was found not guilty of said infractions.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

With all the above said....

I am thinking that perhaps it is a good thing to have a CDL. Just as is having pesticide licenses I think I am certified in 7 categories. Some are just random but most are pertinent. Heck, adding all would be nice, just to have.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

On a Call said:


> With all the above said....
> 
> I am thinking that perhaps it is a good thing to have a CDL. Just as is having pesticide licenses I think I am certified in 7 categories. Some are just random but most are pertinent. Heck, adding all would be nice, just to have.


We now know the truck you bought does not require you to have a CDL. I have no idea about a trailer did not read that far. I'm a lazy :terribletowel:LOL. Here if the truck does not need a CDL you can pull a trailer. I personally don't know why you would want to pull a trailer with a salt rig with no dump box etc not to mention it is gas.

CDL is rather expensive to renew and you have to have a health card from a doctor that your insurance won't pay for. You will also need a truck to take your test in because your truck does not qualify.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

On a Call said:


> Now how many trucks in that class do you run ?


Does it make a difference? Do I have to have CDL class trucks in order to be able to read a flow chart?

It isn't all about the trucks, either. It can be due to a combo.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

http://publicsafety.ohio.gov/links/hsy7605.pdf


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-1627_8669_53324-213067--,00.html


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Not sure about Ohio but in Mich you will need a wieght plate for the combined (truck and trailer loaded) total wieght. But thats a whole different argument.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Mark I had not found the site you located. Thank you that helps and shows it well.

It is as I thought, after reading the pages I did find. However yours takes it much further. Maybe I will take a test and at least have the cert. 

And no, you do not need a CDL to read a flow chart. However I might way wrong here...I thought he was sharing flows for Hydro units to run the bed and spreader ? 

On another positive note someone offered to sell me a stainless steel dump bed complete with all the plumbing and controls for a tailgate spreader. I just need to make him an offer. He would like to sell the whole truck. However will separate, try to post a photo.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Randall Ave said:


> Let's not do a CDL discussion. It will kill the thread in a day. Laws vary from state to state.


Debbie Downer...........


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)




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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/V...Y_-QBpU1Yy43yXsW9mkSl0RS7ZHf8O2sSFU0pVjw=s152


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Now...back to salt trucks...in my endless searching and looking, it appears as though clutch pump setups are more desirable for salting operations than pto. Seems as though more flow can be had at lower rpm's leading to better performance. Also, it makes no difference where the clutch is, or anything else. Flip a switch, clutch pump kicks in and you have hydraulics indefinitely.


Depends on the PTO.

If one has the right tranny...larger Allisons, newer Furds, possibly even the Dodge, I would mulch rather have a PTO (hot shift) pump. Very simple to bolt it on. Usually pretty low, so flow (suction) to the pump is no issue at all. No clutch to smoke if you're trying to run too much spreader or sprayer, no belt to keep tensioned\slip\fail. And generally a higher flow rate is available for PTO pumps than clutch\central hydros.

Given the option of the 2, I'd take a PTO driven pump all day, every day. Problem is most medium-heavy duty trucks are not ordered with the PTO option unless they are being setup specifically as a dump or salt\plow truck.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

not the same chart,
and the cdl requirements are part or the uniform traffic act, can some states add to it, yes.differ, but this is a federal thang so the states should all be in line.

see how these charts say the same thing tho they are from different states.

this is not the same flow chart i posted before, for some reason i couldn't find the old one,
endorsements are a different topic and can vary by the load or the trucks configuration.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Guess I need to learn how to post photos. Sorry.

Anyhow this truck has a SS bed and all the plumbing I need for a tailgate spreader. He told me to make an offer. Problem is...this truck runs with an auto trans.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Thank you Mark !!!

I have to run...irrigation to blow out/finish.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

And Thank you Snow !!!

Perfect !!


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Not sure about Ohio but in Mich you will need a wieght plate for the combined (truck and trailer loaded) total wieght. But thats a whole different argument.


You don't need a plate here, You do need DOT #'s on any pickup trailer combination. Straight truck or tractor and trailer over 10K. But your right has nothing to do with CDL requirements.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

FredG said:


> We now know the truck you bought does not require you to have a CDL. I have no idea about a trailer did not read that far. I'm a lazy :terribletowel:LOL. Here if the truck does not need a CDL you can pull a trailer. I personally don't know why you would want to pull a trailer with a salt rig with no dump box etc not to mention it is gas.
> 
> CDL is rather expensive to renew and you have to have a health card from a doctor that your insurance won't pay for. You will also need a truck to take your test in because your truck does not qualify.


The only thing I would pull that heavy is my back hoe. I used to just pay someone. I agree...being a gas unit also limits the towing.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Gotta run....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

FWIW, I've had a 25,990 GVWR since fall of '97.

A CDL truck with air brakes since '00.

Bought another medium duty with a 22,000 GVWR a few years back.

A handful of 450's and 550's that have GVWR from 12k-16K, plus a gooseneck that was 20K. 

So yes, I do have trucks that fall into that range.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Depends on the PTO.
> 
> If one has the right tranny...larger Allisons, newer Furds, possibly even the Dodge, I would mulch rather have a PTO (hot shift) pump. Very simple to bolt it on. Usually pretty low, so flow (suction) to the pump is no issue at all. No clutch to smoke if you're trying to run too much spreader or sprayer, no belt to keep tensioned\slip\fail. And generally a higher flow rate is available for PTO pumps than clutch\central hydros.
> 
> Given the option of the 2, I'd take a PTO driven pump all day, every day. Problem is most medium-heavy duty trucks are not ordered with the PTO option unless they are being setup specifically as a dump or salt\plow truck.


Interesting. I've had more than one large and reputable up fitter and their dealer tell me they strongly suggest a clutch pump setup over a PTO to run a hydraulic salter, even on a new 2016 F550 diesel.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Debbie Downer...........


Yup I dated a Debbie and she, oh wait. Wrong area for this.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

That's a good chart Snow. Learn something new every day. Per that my Ford service truck GVW is 13000. So I need DOT#s.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Randall Ave said:


> That's a good chart Snow. Learn something new every day. Per that my Ford service truck GVW is 13000. So I need DOT#s.


If I recall correctly, DOT numbers for over 10k GVW are only required for out of state operations.

We've been through a couple DOT roadside stops with truck/trailer and it's never been said we needed them, and the way those guys pick **** apart I would think they'd have nailed that easily.

On edit...apparently Ohio is one of the states that does require DOT numbers even for in state use. New Jersey also is one.

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/do-i-need-usdot-number


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I don't agree with the DOT thing...

I have been pulled over a handful of times and have never needed a DOT


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> I don't agree with the DOT thing...
> 
> I have been pulled over a handful of times and have never needed a DOT


Michigan doesn't........if your vehicle is under 26,001. But that website says it does.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Interesting. I've had more than one large and reputable up fitter and their dealer tell me they strongly suggest a clutch pump setup over a PTO to run a hydraulic salter, even on a new 2016 F550 diesel.


Why? Do they make more money doing them? It is far more time intensive.

The upfitter that does my trucks and told me this does a good number of muni's across Meechigan as well as MDOT trucks.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Seems like pto would be much easier but what do I know...


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Seems like pto would be much easier but what do I know...


I bet you are smarter than I and I have to agree...Problem is that I had a F250 that we set up with a salter. It was a manual  plowing was a pain replacing clutches. Also spreading salt we had to put in low and throttle up it was a PIA. Unless we had room to drive faster we had had to do this.

Mark, thank you for you input. I may have been around a bit...just never used these. Just like anyone...we hate to make mistakes and your experience which I thought you had helps.


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

Why not just do a pump mounted off the crank? I have one on my 95 Topkick with a 311 cat and it worked out great for my hydro salter. Mine ended up rotting apart and now i have a electric Air Flow Stainless salter on it.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Front crank mounted pumps work very well. I've worked on them in GMC c8500 with cat 3116, 3126. He has a c6500 with a gas engine . I don't think that he has the frame extensions up front to mount the pump. Now anything can be made. But it depends on the cost. How much he wants to spend.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

How about with a gasser ???


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