# Snow Plow Or Snow Blower's For Residential ?



## s helping hand (Dec 4, 2008)

What do you think is more efficient and profitable for clearing say about 15cm/6" of snow on residential driveways that can fit up to four cars max in them. (Take in to account that path way and stairs must be shoveled and around cars if necessary and you have about 35 homes to do that day)

*SNOW PLOW * say me operating a new 7.5 western with back drag edge and employee doing hand shoveling..
*OR*
*SNOW BLOWER'S* say me and employee with a aries 27" 9.5 hp snow blower Each with a good ramp system..

Please let me know what you think..and why would one be more efficient and profitable than other... thank you for your time


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

35 is ALOT to do with that much snow in a day with a snowblower. A truck and plow could do them in 4 hours or so.


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

It depends on how many blowers you have and how many trucks you have hauling around those blowers. I personally plow and blow driveways depending on what size they are.


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## s helping hand (Dec 4, 2008)

All the homes are close to getter in small neighborhood. yea 35 is a bit much lets say 20 or soo than..


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## RenegadeX (Oct 22, 2008)

I'm not a professional, so take this however you like, but figure 10-20 mins per driveway for a snowblower. (I have a Toro 221R single stage and a 25x40 blacktop driveway.. the other day I did 3.5" of wet slop + EOD + walkway in 11mins.. my neighbour with a 2-stage was out there longer than I, don't know how long your planned Ariens 2-stage would take). But if you said 20 mins including loading/unloading and salting, that's 3/hr, or 6-7hrs of work. How quick do you figure you can do them with a plow and shovel?


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## KGRlandscapeing (May 2, 2007)

even at 20 id be calling it a day. Plowing would be much faster.


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

my next door neighbor get's her driveway , sidewalk and porch done with snow blowers. 
2 guys/snow blowers on the drive way and one does side walk and porch. i never timed them but im sure they would have no problems doing 4 - 6 driveways per hour. they are in and out in no time. it's kinda amusing to watch. 

as for the OP's question , a plow is faster . takes me about 5 minutes to do my 4 car driveway not to mention it's much much warmer !


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## 042500hd (Oct 10, 2004)

If your doing more than 5 IMO it's time for a truck and plow. The time it takes you to do those 5 you could have done 10 or 15 with a plow.


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## d8on27 (Nov 19, 2007)

If you have to get out to clean the sidewalks, stoop and walk it takes the same amount of time with a plow or with a snowblower on a standard city lot IMO. I've done both alot. If they are close together as you said you can do 5/6 an hour with 2 man crew with two Toro 3650's. These are much more effecient than the bigger 2 stage blowers.


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## paynter2 (Nov 24, 2005)

I don't know about Western. I sold my CJ-5 with a meyers plow. Bought a new truck and put a Western on it last month. We're due for nearly two feet of snow today and tonight. Yesterday I put the plow on the truck - first time since I brought it home from the dealer.

It doesn't work. There's pressure in the system so I think there must be a stuck valve someplace - all the plow does is kick right an inch or two. It doesn't matter what direction I try to go with it - it kicks right.

So, here I am, 30 miles from town. I have a brand new plow that doesn't work and two feet of snow on the way. With the Meyers I could have jacked the plow up and shortened the chain to limp to the dealer. Not so with this one. I think I'm gonna need a tow.

Western -


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## PLOWMAN45 (Jul 2, 2003)

and you could short chain the western


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## paynter2 (Nov 24, 2005)

paynter2;675759 said:


> I don't know about Western. I sold my CJ-5 with a meyers plow. Bought a new truck and put a Western on it last month. We're due for nearly two feet of snow today and tonight. Yesterday I put the plow on the truck - first time since I brought it home from the dealer.
> 
> It doesn't work. There's pressure in the system so I think there must be a stuck valve someplace - all the plow does is kick right an inch or two. It doesn't matter what direction I try to go with it - it kicks right.
> 
> ...


Sorry - this post got placed into the wrong forum. I Don't see an 'edit' function so it will just have to stay. Again, sorry.


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

If I had to do more than 5 or 6, I'd be getting a truck and a plow. A lot faster and a lot warmer.


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## capnsac (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't know what your financial situation is, however if you don't want to invest anywhere from 3-6 grand (depending on new or used plow) then I'd go with the snow throwers. IMO this is a more economical route anyhow if you are only doing driveways. I think a plow would be overkill IMO, and your ROI would be much higher if you just go with the snow throwers at first.

Also, if you're open for suggestions on snow throwers, go with the 2450GTS by toro. The reason I suggest those is they unfortunately no longer make the 3650, so the 2450 is your next best bet. The bigger snow throwers you are talking about getting are honestly, for a lack of a better word, worthless. I had a snow thrower jsut like that, and I was hating life to say the least while trying to use the thing. Not only are they cumbersome to use, they are just as cumbersome to transport. 

Think about it this way, are you really going to want to take that 300lb behemoth off the truck when you're on your last 10 driveways and it's -5 with a windchill of -25? I did that exact thing, and let me tell you, I hated my life so much that I went back and returned the damn thing. I got the two 2450GTS's and was loving life after that. You can get two of these for around $900 OTD, instead of one of those for around that much. You'd make that back in a snow fall. 

FWIW, someday you are going to have to get snow throwers if you're going to keep doing residentials. It's more or less a stepping stone for what's to come.

Just my .02


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## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

use a plow and no snow blower, the reason why is i wouldn't want you showing up at my house 3 am with a snow blower going and i don't think any of my direct neighbours would like it too much either.

Use the plow and have someone shovel if you wake any body you will be gone before they can get out to yell at you.


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## MB3 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Snow Blowers*

I personally use my blowers on all of my resis, being that they do a superior job compared to a plow, especially if you have cars in the drive. I curretly do about 30 of them, and when you take the time to use the plow, then get out of the truck and shovel around all the cars, you are spending more time there than if you just used the blower to being with. Being that the houses are close, you can start at the first one, unlaod the equipment, and make your way around, especially if there are sidewalks connecting them. You will be able to do them faster and neater then with a plow. Inall of my years doing snow, 25+ now, I have never had one complaint about waking someone up at 3 in the morning. I have had several compliments that we had been there at that time, the homeowner comld sleep knowing that they were cleared out for the monring, and did not have to wait for us.


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## PLOWMAN45 (Jul 2, 2003)

my customers are trained to garage there cars i couldnt imagine dragging snowblowers around gas cans ramps


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## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

too much trouble bringing them around loading and unloading plow the drive jump out two seconds to take out shovel and then shovel quickly the walks and then back in the truck and not having to load the blower again.


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## s helping hand (Dec 4, 2008)

I have a buddy ramp/ tailgate ramp. and it would take no time to load and unload snowblowers. Me and a employee could have a snow blower each.... drive down ramp..l take half the drive way employee well take the other half do small path and side walk and done!!! drive up ramp and than go to next house ... I think a plow is a bit faster but snowblowers would be almost the same...So im going to go with snow blowers over plow because they do a better job on a driveway and less risky to damage..


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## s helping hand (Dec 4, 2008)

About snow blowers you really think i am better off over all with 20" toro 2450 GTS than 9.5 27" aries snowblowers even when loading is not a problem.? i got a good tail gate ramp


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

s helping hand;678293 said:


> I have a buddy ramp/ tailgate ramp. and it would take no time to load and unload snowblowers. Me and a employee could have a snow blower each.... drive down ramp..l take half the drive way employee well take the other half do small path and side walk and done!!! drive up ramp and than go to next house ... I think a plow is a bit faster but snowblowers would be almost the same...So im going to go with snow blowers over plow because they do a better job on a driveway and less risky to damage..


i think your over looking some thing's in your plan.

1. sure you could do 4 driveway in a hour with 2 people but the problem is your employee @ $10 an hour wont be all that motavatied to bust his arse. slower = more money for him !

2. you have to remember that he will need potty breaks - 4, smoke breaks -10, phone breaks for his girl friend to call and ***** about some thing. ( depending on time of month this can vary 1 - 25 )

3. when there is 3 - 4 inches of snow on the ground you should have no problems being in and out in 10 - 15 minutes. if you get a big storm you will spend 45 minutes + on each one !

don't bite off more then you can chew and you will make some $$$. if you try and do 35 driveways with a snow blower , you will lose half your customers to the guy running around in a $400 truck with a $100 piece of rust/plow hanging off the front bumper.


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## d8on27 (Nov 19, 2007)

Double bill at 6+ inches of snow or whatever amount you think is fair. During a big snow go out when it hits 3 inches and run your route. Go back after the storm and after the city plows have buried the apron and run it again. I wouldn't recommend over 25 customers per 2 man crew. In my opinion the Toro 3650 (or Honda or Snappers version) are the most effecient tool for the job. We averaged over 4 accounts per hour last year easily (2 man crew). It's also easy to pick up extra help on the big snows, cause nobody's going to work or school.


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## capnsac (Jul 29, 2008)

s helping hand;678300 said:


> About snow blowers you really think i am better off over all with 20" toro 2450 GTS than 9.5 27" aries snowblowers even when loading is not a problem.? i got a good tail gate ramp


I have no question in my mind you would be better off with the 20" as opposed to the 27"

I have used the 27" version and I have also used the 20" version, I could walk circles around the 27! I couldn't believe myself, in fact I had to reluctantly admit that just because my snow blower was bigger didn't necessarily mean it was better. The 20 is more versatile because of its light weight, and the drive system being in the paddles makes this thing that much more efficient. I hated the drive system in the wheels, the damn thing wouldn't track! I hope you haven't bought these already and I am bringing all these fears to you, but if you have return em while they are still new and go with the Toros, you won't be disappointed!


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## s helping hand (Dec 4, 2008)

I know what your saying about paying employees per hour like -slower means more money to them and taking all kinds of potty breaks, smoke breaks and phone breaks can really slow things down.. This winter i will be out there every time with employee doing drive ways and making sure that this does not happen..But when i want to expand and have a 2nd crew. What advise would u give ? would u pay them per drive way? set amount of driveways to do? etc. 
Yea during a big snow out when it hits 3" - 4" i am going to run my route... and come back a 2nd time when storm has ended or reaches 3" - 4" again and i will double bill them for that.. Good job on easily doing 4 drive ways a hour proves that plow is not much faster if anything..thanks alot!!!


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## s helping hand (Dec 4, 2008)

thanks lucky i did not buy the huge 2 stage blower and my dealer said no problem he would sell to a another person... I told him i want to buy a one stage blower like a toro 2450 GTS but he does not have any toro at the moment but said he has lawn boy one stage that is the same only ones red and the other is green... what u think about that?


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

s helping hand;678583 said:


> But when i want to expand and have a 2nd crew. What advise would u give ? would u pay them per drive way? set amount of driveways to do? etc


i really don't know the best way to pay these guys. if you pay them per hour they will take their time trying to milk the clock but probably end up doing a better job. if you pay them per drive , they will rush threw it leaving snow every where or half finished driveways that you will have to go back and clean up .



s helping hand;678583 said:


> I This winter i will be out there every time with employee doing drive ways and making sure that this does not happen.


you have to allow them to slack off a little. good help will be fast when needed. the rest of the time they will only be fast enough to get the job done on time.



s helping hand;678583 said:


> Yea during a big snow out when it hits 3" - 4" i am going to run my route... and come back a 2nd time when storm has ended or reaches 3" - 4" again and i will double bill them for that.


don't double bill. all your customers will ***** and complain about it ! 
set your price for X amount of snow and stick to it. if you have to come back 2 , 3 , 4 times then that's what you have to do.



s helping hand;678583 said:


> Good job on easily doing 4 drive ways a hour proves that plow is not much faster if anything..thanks alot!!!


i don't do driveways or use a snow blower, my ass is to fine for that . i sit in my nice warm truck with heated leather seats, drinking coffee and chatting with my supervisor. every now and then i might plow some snow 

anyway , a snow blower or 3 will not get a driveway done faster then a plow ! 
when i did drive ways i wouldn't even get out to shovel snow. i paid a guy to run around in his own car and shovel the porch and walkway . i just told my customers that the porch will be done the next morning and i will clean up around the cars once they leave for work. 
would take me maybe an hour to clean up.


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## brookviewlawn (Sep 16, 2008)

Although most people are telling you its faster to do a driveway with a plow, you also have to take into consideration the overhead costs of the plow and truck (and backup truck), opposed to the price of two or three snowblowers. Also, I will bet you can pick up more accounts if you market yourself to be a company who uses smaller equipment (less chance at creating property damage and better quality job). You may want to think about a crew of three instead of just two if you think time is going to be an issue during large snow falls, this may solve that problem.


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## Snowaway (Sep 10, 2008)

mabey you could pay him by the sq foot


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## KGRlandscapeing (May 2, 2007)

brookviewlawn;680612 said:


> Although most people are telling you its faster to do a driveway with a plow, you also have to take into consideration the overhead costs of the plow and truck (and backup truck), opposed to the price of two or three snowblowers. Also, I will bet you can pick up more accounts if you market yourself to be a company who uses smaller equipment (less chance at creating property damage and better quality job). You may want to think about a crew of three instead of just two if you think time is going to be an issue during large snow falls, this may solve that problem.


Think of the over head of 3 guys and 3 blowers. Shoot you working at a buck a min plus 15 bucks an hour per person. Then insurance then gas and the intial cost of 3 blowers. Plus the truck and ramp set up. compared to one guy in a pick up


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

PLOWMAN45;677437 said:


> my customers are trained to garage there cars i couldnt imagine dragging snowblowers around gas cans ramps


No kidding!


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

brookviewlawn;680612 said:


> Although most people are telling you its faster to do a driveway with a plow, you also have to take into consideration the overhead costs of the plow and truck (and backup truck), opposed to the price of two or three snowblowers. Also, I will bet you can pick up more accounts if you market yourself to be a company who uses smaller equipment (less chance at creating property damage and better quality job). You may want to think about a crew of three instead of just two if you think time is going to be an issue during large snow falls, this may solve that problem.


3 guys on one driveway?


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## Tahoe Workz (May 22, 2005)

I'm doing 140 per day with one machine. No clearing around cars and no hand shoveling. Most accounts are in garages or vacant so I have decent access. But at 140 per day (or even 100 per day) it would be worth hiring a crew to trail behind and do that cleanup. If you have a machine like this:






You don't like to get out of the cab much...

LET IT SNOW !!!


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## s helping hand (Dec 4, 2008)

great info thanks... let me tell you this morning we had snow fall of 10cm and me and an employee went out and with snowblowers and shovels for 9 hours straight .. we averaged 4.5 homes a hour and did 40 homes. The drive ways came out nice and clean and we did there walkway and stairs also. i charge about $25 a drive way.. so x 40 = $1000 and payed worker $135 for the day..
I think once we get better at it we can do 5 drive ways or more per hour that will be my goal..


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## d8on27 (Nov 19, 2007)

Just be as prepared as you can be for a really big storm or 4 inches of frozen sleet and you'll be fine.


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## snowsnothing (Nov 25, 2008)

Tahoe Workz;680891 said:


> I'm doing 140 per day with one machine. No clearing around cars and no hand shoveling. Most accounts are in garages or vacant so I have decent access. But at 140 per day (or even 100 per day) it would be worth hiring a crew to trail behind and do that cleanup. If you have a machine like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thats an awsome machine. Never seen anything like it. Here in Cincinnati I'm lucky to get a deep enough snow to go out and clear some driveways. Nice website also. I enjoyed the videos of your blower in action.


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## Tahoe Workz (May 22, 2005)

THANKS! Putting it to work again tonight! Lake elevation is at 6250 ft and accounts go up to about 7500 ft. So we can get the deep stuff on occasion.


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

snowsnothing;685531 said:


> Thats an awsome machine. Never seen anything like it. Here in Cincinnati I'm lucky to get a deep enough snow to go out and clear some driveways. Nice website also. I enjoyed the videos of your blower in action.


i use to work for snow systems and every now and then i would get stuck on a lot with their blower. ( video of it is at the bottom of the page ) i hated it , would throw football sized chunks of ice at my truck and piss me off to no end ! lol

http://www.snowsystems.com/


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## Winterized (Mar 3, 2007)

_
*What do you think is more efficient and profitable for clearing say about 15cm/6" of snow on residential driveways that can fit up to four cars max in them. (Take in to account that path way and stairs must be shoveled and around cars if necessary and you have about 35 homes to do that *day)_

Come the end of the season..... where will all this snow be that you have moved? 
If you push it with a plow, will you run out of room or damaged some turf?
Would a blower allow you more options for this?

One larger blower..... on a small SS or decent tractor and one good operator.
A shovel crew of two guys follow for clean up with a Toro single stage?

Only you know the details of your accounts to address these points.
Yes.... I am prejudice in favor of snowblowers for smaller areas.


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## s helping hand (Dec 4, 2008)

Me and my employee are using blowers and the two of us are doing 6 driveways a hour so im making almost $150 a hour after paying helper... Its much safer than using a plow and less stress on your truck.. ps. I am loving my brand new lawn boy 5.5 hp one stage its godly


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## gottaluvplows (Dec 20, 2008)

not many people thought of the noise level i get out there at 5-9Am and people still sleepin so wouldn't it be better to here a truck revving 3 times compared to someone using a snow blower. 



Thats how you get customers


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## s helping hand (Dec 4, 2008)

we go out and use are snowblowers any time of the night 3am or 5am or when ever i have not had any complaints come to me.. it only takes us 5-10 mints max to do the driveway.. i think its a good thing shows that we are prompt and ready to go at all times


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