# Keep it out the repair shop. Big bites on every pass?



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

So in my locations gap or lack of snow fall. Im spending down time watching coverage on izzy. Im seeing guys take big ol bites out of these passes, not wind rowing. Yes this is going to be my first year with my own plow, im excited but such a big snow fall. 2 questions 1. why take such a big bite on every pass? Your asking for trouble right? 2. Why not take some stress off your equipment and plow with the storm? Some areas got like 1ft + of snow and they are hitting it all at once. Even when I was an exclusively blowing service anything over 8" I was blowing with the storm. I was in no hurry to light $900 on fire to replace my equipment. Keep me honest maybe Im over looking something, what do you think.


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## SilverPine (Dec 7, 2018)

Little lost on this one.
Also, whats only $900?


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Sometimes you can't plow with the storm. For example last week we had a blizzard in Toronto, plowing with the storm was impossible. 
In terms of taking a big bite... you can't windrow snow into more snow (when there is a lot of snow) so you need to take a big bite out so that when you do start to windrow the snow has somewhere to go. You'll be just as hard on your equipment if you're trying to windrow it without creating space for the snow to go.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

SilverPine said:


> Little lost on this one.
> Also, whats only $900?


My Toro 2 stage power max was 900 form the dealer where I bought it.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Sometimes you can't plow with the storm. For example last week we had a blizzard in Toronto, plowing with the storm was impossible.
> In terms of taking a big bite... you can't windrow snow into more snow (when there is a lot of snow) so you need to take a big bite out so that when you do start to windrow the snow has somewhere to go. You'll be just as hard on your equipment if you're trying to windrow it without creating space for the snow to go.


I think we're in agreement the first pass will be a big bite but after that you can use 1/4 1/2 3/4 of the plow to push the snow


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

kg26 said:


> I think we're in agreement the first pass will be a big bite but after that you can use 1/4 1/2 3/4 of the plow to push the snow


Generally speaking... take as big of a bite as you can without it spilling off the far side from the windrow.

Some times it will be 1/4 of the blade, sometimes it will be 3/4 of the blade.

Taking small bites to "save your equipment" is not good business logic in my opinion. What you save on the front end you will loose on the tail with fuel, engine hours, time.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Philbilly2 said:


> Generally speaking... take as big of a bite as you can without it spilling off the far side from the windrow.
> 
> Some times it will be 1/4 of the blade, sometimes it will be 3/4 of the blade.
> 
> Taking small bites to "save your equipment" is not good business logic in my opinion. What you save on the front end you will loose on the tail with fuel, engine hours, time.


If the engine is the concern, more weight on the front of the plow equals resistance makes the engine work harder. Youre going to use the full plow on 6" 8" 12" you're going to encounter problems. Just the way I see it.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Time is money,

trucks and plows are consumables. 
there is a difference between abusing and using a tool to its capabilities.

When you’re doing it for a business/ living you are under time constraints and you have responsibilities to fulfill your contract.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

The individual just getting started needs to be up and running for as long as possible with as little problems as possible. Looking at the truck and plow as a consumable works if you have a war chest to replace everything in the event it breaks. I dont know too many guys who in their first few years are doing this with out taking on debt. Truck at least 30k -40k if new, plow at least $6,500 if new. If using used equipment so many other variables come in to play.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

kg26 said:


> If the engine is the concern, more weight on the front of the plow equals resistance makes the engine work harder. Youre going to use the full plow on 6" 8" 12" you're going to encounter problems. Just the way I see it.


Once you make your first pass, no matter what, you are pushing the 1st pass again when you are moving your windrow on your 2nd pass. You will move your 2nd pass again on your 3rd and so on again and again.

So unless you hog it and take a big cut, no matter what you are pushing the same snow over and over till you can loose it somewhere.

Labor is expensive.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

kg26 said:


> The individual just getting started needs to be up and running for as long as possible with as little problems as possible. Looking at the truck and plow as a consumable works if you have a war chest to replace everything in the event it breaks. I dont know too many guys who in their first few years are doing this with out taking on debt. Truck at least 30k -40k if new, plow at least $6,500 if new. If using used equipment so many other variables come in to play.


Yes and on a brand new truck you shouldn't be blowing up the engine, probably cause
We'll I've never destroyed a engine plowing snow.

Has nothing to do with having a war chest it ,has everything to do with earning enough to have a war chest and maintaining your clientele's property. if you can't get their lot open in time you need to start taking bigger bites and moving more snow and belly up to the bar and get the job done.
Or they will hire somebody else who can.

And if you're a one guy operation that needs to get your jobs done because you have contracts and obligations you might have to dip into your war chest and buy a second truck& plow as a back up.

If Filling up your blade with snow Until it's overflowing with snow and then pushing it across the lot is too hard on your equipment you have the wrong equipment.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

I’ve broken way more stuff in small storms than I have on larger storms.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kg26 said:


> The individual just getting started needs to be up and running for as long as possible with as little problems as possible. Looking at the truck and plow as a consumable works if you have a war chest to replace everything in the event it breaks. I dont know too many guys who in their first few years are doing this with out taking on debt. Truck at least 30k -40k if new, plow at least $6,500 if new. If using used equipment so many other variables come in to play.


This applies to anyone in the industry. Not just one truck chuck.

How many large storms have you plowed through?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> This applies to anyone in the industry. Not just one truck chuck.


It applies to everyone... in every industry...


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Mark Oomkes said:


> This applies to anyone in the industry. Not just one truck chuck.
> 
> How many large storms have you plowed through?


None, first year in a truck. Until now my services were primarily a residential blowing service. With bigger snow events I went with the storms. For an 8" event hit it at 4" or as close to as possible, and again once it was over. I found it cuts time on property down a good amount. When Id look at clients that had a plowing service it seemed like they were there longer than they needed to be doing it all at once.


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

kg26 said:


> The individual just getting started needs to be up and running for as long as possible with as little problems as possible. Looking at the truck and plow as a consumable works if you have a war chest to replace everything in the event it breaks. I dont know too many guys who in their first few years are doing this with out taking on debt. Truck at least 30k -40k if new, plow at least $6,500 if new. If using used equipment so many other variables come in to play.


If a truck and plow arent consumables then what are they? Certainly not an investment.

(Although my dealer wants to buy my 2020 furd for original price lol.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Hydromaster said:


> Yes and on a brand new truck you shouldn't be blowing up the engine, probably cause
> We'll I've never destroyed a engine plowing snow.
> 
> Has nothing to do with having a war chest it ,has everything to do with earning enough to have a war chest and maintaining your clientele's property. if you can't get their lot open in time you need to start taking bigger bites and moving more snow and belly up to the bar and get the job done.
> ...


We would hope no one would blow up a new truck, but its math at this point. Sure it can handle it but whos to say it isnt going to cause premature expiration. Besides if youre big bite billy youre going to have run off on either side of the plow then what happens you gotta go back over all of it and clean it back up. Smaller bites keep it from spilling off the side and that keeps efficiency high because you cut down on clean up that will be needed.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

kg26 said:


> None, first year in a truck. Until now my services were primarily a residential blowing service. With bigger snow events I went with the storms. For an 8" event hit it at 4" or as close to as possible, and again once it was over. I found it cuts time on property down a good amount. When Id look at clients that had a plowing service it seemed like they were there longer than they needed to be doing it all at once.


How does your pricing structure work? Are you being paid to plow/ blow it every time you service or is it a seasonal service that you keep the driveway clean for $XXX a season?

Reason I ask is if you service it 2 times in 8 inches and it takes you an hour per visit... but plowing 8 inches takes you 1.5 hours, you are cutting down time in theory, but in reality it is costing you more.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

kg26 said:


> None, first year in a truck. Until now my services were primarily a residential blowing service. With bigger snow events I went with the storms. For an 8" event hit it at 4" or as close to as possible, and again once it was over. I found it cuts time on property down a good amount. When Id look at clients that had a plowing service it seemed like they were there longer than they needed to be doing it all at once.


Did you charge them for plowing twice?

And what is the trigger depth?


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Landgreen said:


> If a truck and plow arent consumables then what are they? Certainly not an investment.
> 
> (Although my dealer wants to buy my 2020 furd for original price lol.


That is a unique situation due to current market conditions, but I hear you. Market is all kinds of crazy right now. I would call my machinery an investment. It may not be an appreciating asset (generally) they are an investment that has brought a positive ROI.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Hydromaster said:


> Did you charge them for plowing twice?
> 
> And what is the trigger depth?


Yes they are charged per visit on a 2"trigger.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

kg26 said:


> That is a unique situation due to current market conditions, but I hear you. Market is all kinds of crazy right now. I would call my machinery an investment. It may not be an appreciating asset (generally) they are an investment that has brought a positive ROI.


You need to talk to an accountant.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

kg26 said:


> We would hope no one would blow up a new truck, but its math at this point. Sure it can handle it but whos to say it isnt going to cause premature expiration. Besides if youre big bite billy youre going to have run off on either side of the plow then what happens you gotta go back over all of it and clean it back up. Smaller bites keep it from spilling off the side and that keeps efficiency high because you cut down on clean up that will be needed.


And there are times when you will need to move the bulk off of the lot ,
You may just move over into that window and go right down the middle of it making two windrows and then move the snow down between them so you can push a whole blade load of snow off to the end.

Using the berm on either side to keep my blade full of snow while pushing it down that lane,

I'm not going to keep trying to windrow that big berm just to get a bucket full of snow to the end

And yes before I leave the lot I may go and take some passes perpendicular to my trail offs so it only takes two or three passes to pick them all up.

I don't care for using a couple of late-model trucks , your plow truck is a work truck sometimes you're gonna need to work it


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

What are you suggesting 


Philbilly2 said:


> You need to talk to an accountant.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kg26 said:


> None, first year in a truck. Until now my services were primarily a residential blowing service. With bigger snow events I went with the storms. For an 8" event hit it at 4" or as close to as possible, and again once it was over. I found it cuts time on property down a good amount. When Id look at clients that had a plowing service it seemed like they were there longer than they needed to be doing it all at once.


So, to be polite, you have no idea what you're talking about?

6"+ storms require most lots to be "plowed" twice. First time you "hog" the bulk of the snow off, second time all the trails are windrowed off. This takes less time and is less frustrating than windrowing the entire lot.

That's the short answer. Assuming I know what I'm talking about.

BTW, plowing with the storm is a fallacy put forth by those who don't know what they're talking about.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

kg26 said:


> What are you suggesting


Google search "Section 179"


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

kg26 said:


> Yes they are charged per visit on a 2"trigger.


Then why did you wait until there was 4 inches?

plowing 4 inches is harder on the equipment than plowing 2 inches

and you're leaving money on the table.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So, to be polite, you have no idea what you're talking about?
> 
> 6"+ storms require most lots to be "plowed" twice. First time you "hog" the bulk of the snow off, second time all the trails are windrowed off. This takes less time and is less frustrating than windrowing the entire lot.
> 
> ...


Not to mention it's so much fun pushing snow with snow. ..


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

kg26 said:


> Besides if youre big bite billy youre going to have run off on either side of the plow then what happens you gotta go back over all of it and clean it back up. Smaller bites keep it from spilling off the side and that keeps efficiency high because you cut down on clean up that will be needed.


 If I found my employee was making sure there was no spill off of snow from his plow on each pass while working a big storm we would definitely be having a discussion on plowing 101.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So, to be polite, you have no idea what you're talking about?
> 
> 6"+ storms require most lots to be "plowed" twice. First time you "hog" the bulk of the snow off, second time all the trails are windrowed off. This takes less time and is less frustrating than windrowing the entire lot.
> 
> ...


Define "plowed twice". I want to see something.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Assuming I know what I'm talking about.


My mom always told me that to assume just makes an a$$ out of u and me


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Landgreen said:


> If I found my employee was making sure there was no spill off of snow from his plow on each pass while working a big storm we would definitely be having a discussion on plowing 101.





Hydromaster said:


> Then why did you wait until there was 4 inches?
> 
> plowing 4 inches is harder on the equipment than plowing 2 inches
> 
> and you're leaving money on the table.


You think I should go out every 2" accumulation?


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Landgreen said:


> If I found my employee was making sure there was no spill off of snow from his plow on each pass while working a big storm we would definitely be having a discussion on plowing 101.





Hydromaster said:


> Then why did you wait until there was 4 inches?
> 
> plowing 4 inches is harder on the equipment than plowing 2 inches
> 
> and you're leaving money on the table.


You think I should go out every 2" accumulation 


Landgreen said:


> If I found my employee was making sure there was no spill off of snow from his plow on each pass while working a big storm we would definitely be having a discussion on plowing 101.


You leave the spill over on the laneway?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

kg26 said:


> You think I should go out every 2" accumulation?


Is that your trigger Depth?
If I have a trigger depth of 2 inches and I have an agreement to plow every 2 inches 24/7 then yes, that's why it's called a trigger, The trigger is reached we go to work.

What is your agreement with your client?


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

kg26 said:


> You leave the spill over on the laneway?


Yes. I leave "spill over" everywhere. I own Big Bite Billy plow services. We make a mess.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Hydromaster said:


> Is that your trigger Depth
> What is your agreement with your client?


The agreement is 2" trigger, events of 6" or more will require additional visits. Visits are at my discretion. 2 to 5" one visit at 6" I break it up in to two visits, 10" 3 visits. we only get thoses every once and a while. I tell them our reads come from one source they have access to it and every one is on the same page of how much snow we were expecting and how much we received.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Landgreen said:


> Yes. I leave "spill over" everywhere. I own Big Bite Billy plow services. We make a mess.


Sounded like it.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

kg26 said:


> The agreement is 2" trigger, events of 6" or more will require additional visits. Visits are at my discretion. 2 to 5" one visit at 6" I break it up in to two visits, 10" 3 visits. we only get thoses every once and a while. I tell them our reads come from one source they have access to it and every one is on the same page of how much snow we were expecting and how much we received.


The way your contacts are worded don't always work. Snow events can happen any time of day or night. 
We've done multiple pushes on 3", depending on timing.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

kg26 said:


> You leave the spill over on the laneway?


Hold on... laneway?

Are you talking about driveways or parking lots?

None of us are talking about plowing driveways...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kg26 said:


> Define "plowed twice". I want to see something.


If you "hog" the bulk off, you have to clean up all the trails. You'll basically be plowing the lot a second time.

If you window the entire thing with that much snow you will be spending more time and be harder on your truck trying to move snow that has had most of the air knocked out of it.

I've been doing this for over 40 years. If you want to tell me how to do my job, come on down and we'll plow side by side. I've plowed 1/2" to 22" and everything in between. 3" of sleet, half inch of ice, 3" of ice pellets at 10° and pouring rain-second worst storm I've seen.

Please tell me how to plow a large amount of snow.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I've been doing this for over 40 years. If you want to tell me how to do my job, come on down and we'll plow side by side. I've plowed 1/2" to 22" and everything in between. 3" of sleet, half inch of ice, 3" of ice pellets at 10° and pouring rain-second worst storm I've seen.












sew much anger


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Mark Oomkes said:


> If you "hog" the bulk off, you have to clean up all the trails. You'll basically be plowing the lot a second time.
> 
> If you window the entire thing with that much snow you will be spending more time and be harder on your truck trying to move snow that has had most of the air knocked out of it.
> 
> ...


Easy there, im looking to see if we're calling the same thing different names or if we're talking about different things.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> sew much anger


It's been a long couple days. Just don't have patience for advice from someone who's never plowed with a truck but has all the answers...without knowing the questions.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Please tell me how to plow a large amount of snow.


With a Walter


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kg26 said:


> Easy there, im looking to see if we're calling the same thing different names or if we're talking about different things.


Apparently we aren't as you think these guys are wrong but have no experience in a truck.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> If you "hog" the bulk off, you have to clean up all the trails. You'll basically be plowing the lot a second time.
> 
> If you window the entire thing with that much snow you will be spending more time and be harder on your truck trying to move snow that has had most of the air knocked out of it.


and to elaborate what mark is saying, when you "hog" you are straight blade or scoop, or vee, what ever you have that 'carries the most" snow. You are skipping spots, plowing in multiple directions, cutting paths... to someone that does not plow snow you look to be "making a mess" but you are trying to get the mass off the lot so you can be more efficient when you start to windrow

It is not clean... it is not pretty... but it is far more efficient than trying to move a windrow that is 3 feet tall and 10 feet wide using 1/4 of the blade to stay tidy.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

kg26 said:


> You leave the spill over on the laneway?


I've been through a few blizzards. And I can say this...I was in the same parking lot for 6 hours.... I never angled my blade but once. Made 1 pass down the center, saw that the window was taller then my plow..never angled again.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kg26 said:


> Easy there, im looking to see if we're calling the same thing different names or if we're talking about different things.


Look at it this way...everyone so far is telling you you're wrong, most with decades of experience. But you are telling us we're all wrong. And you have zero experience in a truck.

Think about that for a while.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> and to elaborate what mark is saying, when you "hog" you are straight blade or scoop, or vee, what ever you have that 'carries the most" snow. You are skipping spots, plowing in multiple directions, cutting paths... to someone that does not plow snow you look to be "making a mess" but you are trying to get the mass off the lot so you can be more efficient when you start to windrow
> 
> It is not clean... it is not pretty... but it is far more efficient than trying to move a windrow that is 3 feet tall and 10 feet wide using 1/4 of the blade to stay tidy.


Yes


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Hydromaster said:


> Yes and on a brand new truck you shouldn't be blowing up the engine, probably cause
> We'll I've never destroyed a engine plowing snow.
> 
> Has nothing to do with having a war chest it ,has everything to do with earning enough to have a war chest and maintaining your clientele's property. if you can't get their lot open in time you need to start taking bigger bites and moving more snow and belly up to the bar and get the job done.
> ...


I have had an engine go on me while plowing...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

RichardBongIII said:


> I have had an engine go on me while plowing...


why does that not surprise me in the slightest bit...


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

RichardBongIII said:


> I have had an engine go on me while plowing...


That's nice.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Philbilly2 said:


> why does that not surprise me in the slightest bit...


I knew it was going to go... But I rode it until it did. It was actually the reason I found this place back in 2010... I was looking for the oil pressure of a 5.7L Chevy engine in 1997 Sierra 1500. The pressure went too low and I a was stuck with tons of snow and it finally popped on me.

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/i-...gmc-1500-series-plow-truck.96034/#post-964401


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

That’s operator error and abuse.
but hey you sure showed it who is the boss.

And that’s a horse of a different color compared to what you quoted me saying


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Hydromaster said:


> That's operator error and abuse.
> but hey you sure showed it who is the boss.
> 
> And that's a horse of a different color compared to what you quoted me saying


Didn't really care. I hated that stupid truck. It was a piece of junk.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Meanwhile, take it to the I destroyed an engine on purpose thread..

Now, back to the original topic tatt I hope you really enjoy.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

kg26 said:


> So in my locations gap or lack of snow fall. Im spending down time watching coverage on izzy. Im seeing guys take big ol bites out of these passes, not wind rowing. Yes this is going to be my first year with my own plow, im excited but such a big snow fall. 2 questions 1. why take such a big bite on every pass? Your asking for trouble right? 2. Why not take some stress off your equipment and plow with the storm? Some areas got like 1ft + of snow and they are hitting it all at once. Even when I was an exclusively blowing service anything over 8" I was blowing with the storm. I was in no hurry to light $900 on fire to replace my equipment. Keep me honest maybe Im over looking something, what do you think.


Out of curiosity how much snow a year do you get in your region?


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## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

I think it was Feb 2013(I am sure many of us remember). The weather folk stated oh maybe 8"-10". Went to bed and was like Ok I will wake up a 5ish or so. I woke up to 36" on the ground. The state and town plows were taken off the routes due to safety. You had no choice but to work with what you had. How does the truck know it is being over worked. I have been doing this since 1994 for what I can remember. The truck never told me it was being over worked. You just have to know what you are doing and don't hot dog it.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

TJS said:


> I think it was Feb 2013(I am sure many of us remember). The weather folk stated oh maybe 8"-10". Went to bed and was like Ok I will wake up a 5ish or so. I woke up to 36" on the ground. The state and town plows were taken off the routes due to safety. You had no choice but to work with what you had. How does the truck know it is being over worked. I have been doing this since 1994 for what I can remember. The truck never told me it was being over worked. You just have to know what you are doing and don't hot dog it.


When parts start to fail you might know it is overworked.


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

kg26 said:


> So in my locations gap or lack of snow fall. Im spending down time watching coverage on izzy. Im seeing guys take big ol bites out of these passes, not wind rowing. Yes this is going to be my first year with my own plow, im excited but such a big snow fall. 2 questions 1. why take such a big bite on every pass? Your asking for trouble right? 2. Why not take some stress off your equipment and plow with the storm? Some areas got like 1ft + of snow and they are hitting it all at once. Even when I was an exclusively blowing service anything over 8" I was blowing with the storm. I was in no hurry to light $900 on fire to replace my equipment. Keep me honest maybe Im over looking something, what do you think.


OP a LOT depends on the type of equipment, type of snow, condition of the property being serviced And the operator.

I tell my guys: be smart. Don't slam into a pile, let the truck tell you when its straining to move the snow. Stop the truck fully before shifting between gears. Don't lift and turn the plow, be nice to the pump.

On events when the snow is light, take all you want. On events where the snow is laced with water and moving like concrete, take less.

Bottom line is if you are smart, modern heavy duty equipment is made to work, not be babied. That being said, I think your real statement is more like: "why do people abuse equipment and expect it to last?"


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

this video illustrates my point big bites vs smaller bites aka windrowing. Look at the spill over or trails left over from trying to use the full blade vs windrowing.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

kg26 said:


> this video illustrates my point big bites vs smaller bites aka windrowing. Look at the spill over or trails left over from trying to use the full blade vs windrowing.


if the two truck works in tandem better they remove those windrows more efficiently.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Apparently we aren't as you think these guys are wrong but have no experience in a truck.





RichardBongIII said:


> if the two truck works in tandem better they remove those windrows more efficiently.


You see what I mean the Ford on some passes takes a bigger bite and leaves trails on some passes vs on other passes where the bite wasn't as big because he used 1/4 or 1/2 the blade to start, or how the Chevy windrowed.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

kg26 said:


> You see what I mean the Ford on some passes takes a bigger bite and leaves trails on some passes vs on other passes where the bite wasn't as big because he used 1/4 or 1/2 the blade to start, or how the Chevy windrowed.


I always go with maximize the amount of snow you push in the first place. I wouldn't have had the second truck plow up windrows so the first truck would always being taking largest pile of snow that he could. And the second vehicle would clean up the windrows.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kg26 said:


> this video illustrates my point big bites vs smaller bites aka windrowing. Look at the spill over or trails left over from trying to use the full blade vs windrowing.


These 2 are idiots of colossal proportions.

#1 That's not 6" of snow. 3 maybe 4.
#2 That isn't a 2 truck lot even if there was 2 feet.
#3 I have no idea what I was watching for a minute, but I am dumber for watching it.
#4 Even being a Ford, that truck isn't close to being overworked.


----------



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Philbilly2 said:


> and to elaborate what mark is saying, when you "hog" you are straight blade or scoop, or vee, what ever you have that 'carries the most" snow. You are skipping spots, plowing in multiple directions, cutting paths... to someone that does not plow snow you look to be "making a mess" but you are trying to get the mass off the lot so you can be more efficient when you start to windrow
> 
> It is not clean... it is not pretty... but it is far more efficient than trying to move a windrow that is 3 feet tall and 10 feet wide using 1/4 of the blade to stay tidy.


That part I get. When I would shovel (sometimes you don't feel like taking the two stage off the truck) I would cut 3 or 4 lanes up a drive way. Why because when I cut the other way say going from left to right working my way down the driveway it would be less material collecting on the shovel. Less material on the shovel less stress on the body.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

RichardBongIII said:


> Out of curiosity how much snow a year do you get in your region?


OP's location says Birmingham, if it's Alabama 1.6" / yr and if it's Meatchicken it's 32.3" / yr. Neither is a high snow area.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> These 2 are idiots of colossal proportions.
> 
> #1 That's not 6" of snow. 3 maybe 4.
> #2 That isn't a 2 truck lot even if there was 2 feet.
> ...


What the Flanders's is the Chevy doing.... basket weave plowing?


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

BUFF said:


> OP's location says Birmingham, if it's Alabama 1.6" / yr and if it's Meatchicken it's 32.3" / yr. Neither is a high snow area.


 My search revealed more locations-- including one In Canada. So, I figured lets ask how much snow that way he didn't have to give an exact location.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So just looked at some of the comments...best plowing video on the internet, etc. Also fast forwarded and watched another 20 seconds to see if it got any better.

Great example of what NOT to do plowing a lot. 

Recently hired a guy with plowing experience. He salted with me a couple weeks ago and we were talking about his previous employer's rate vs ours. Theirs are $10/hour higher. FWIW, after job costing, our average per hour is a minimum of $30 higher than what I price at. I overestimate the time it takes to plow in other words. 

Anyways, had some time to watch him plow yesterday. They have to charge more because it takes so much longer to plow a lot. Granted, the lots he was doing were the first time he was seeing them but he was taking twice as long as it should have and much of it was due to excess driving around, not windrowing when he should have been and moving snow multiple times. He also used his backblade 90% of the time...tempted to take it off so he learns how to be efficient with a front plow. So I was explaining some things to him and he said "that's my loader experience" in reference to backing instead of either plowing in both directions or plowing in a circle. I told him if he was backing that much in a loader he was doing it wrong. 

So there's a lot of guys out there charging a lot and thinking they know how to move snow because the lot is cleared at the end of the day...but how much are they making per hour and are they making money based on how they're moving the snow off the lot. 

This video is painful to watch and even more painful to see people think they did a good job. Maybe the commenters are all 5 years old, I don't know, but heads would roll if I saw 2 of my guys screwing around and wasting my and their time like these 2 idiots are doing.


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)




----------



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So just looked at some of the comments...best plowing video on the internet, etc. Also fast forwarded and watched another 20 seconds to see if it got any better.
> 
> Great example of what NOT to do plowing a lot.
> 
> ...


I do think there were times where they were just haven fun "hey lets make some content for youtube" I do believe their were times they were really getting after it.


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

kg26 said:


> I do think there were times where they were just haven fun "hey lets make some content for youtube" I do believe their were times they were really getting after it.


Seriously, how much snow do you get in your area?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kg26 said:


> I do believe their were times they were really getting after it.


I missed every single one of those times.

I think they think they were getting after it.


----------



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

BUFF said:


> OP's location says Birmingham, if it's Alabama 1.6" / yr and if it's Meatchicken it's 32.3" / yr. Neither is a high snow area.


We average around 30 inches yearly. Why


----------



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

RichardBongIII said:


> Seriously, how much snow do you get in your area?


About 30 inches why?


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

kg26 said:


> We average around 30 inches yearly. Why


Because that will be a big determing factor in the wear and tear on your truck.


----------



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I missed every single one of those times.
> 
> I think they think they were getting after it.


It doesnt invalidate my original point.


----------



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

RichardBongIII said:


> Because that will be a big determing factor in the wear and tear on your truck.


If I were some where like MN,CO, Canada, Buffalo I might look at tractor with blower set up. There are just certain things one wouldn't have to worry about.


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

BUFF said:


> What the Flanders's is the Chevy doing.... basket weave plowing?


Well, it is a Chevy.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

kg26 said:


> We average around 30 inches yearly. Why


Thx for the answer..... The reason is, low snow area's typically equal lower per-storm snowfall amounts with the occasional "storm of the century" tossed in to mix it up.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Gotta luv that 6.0 churbo whistle!


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Gotta luv that 6.0 churbo whistle!


Ewe dew?


----------



## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

kg26 said:


> this video illustrates my point big bites vs smaller bites aka windrowing. Look at the spill over or trails left over from trying to use the full blade vs windrowing.


I'v seen them guys!!! In every town in the country. Could probably plow that lot, with such little snow, with an S10 and Meyer home plow, faster, never backing up.


----------



## FlakePusher (Sep 15, 2021)

2 good videos on how to plow:


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

kg26 said:


> You think I should go out every 2" accumulation?


Well yeah.
You said you have a 2" trigger. So once it hits 2" you don't stop till it quits snowing.
The last round might not have 2" ,that's the clean up phase. Hopefully the streets have been plowed by then too, so you get that in the last loop and don't have to go out just to get that.


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

TJS said:


> I think it was Feb 2013(I am sure many of us remember). The weather folk stated oh maybe 8"-10". Went to bed and was like Ok I will wake up a 5ish or so. I woke up to 36" on the ground. The state and town plows were taken off the routes due to safety. You had no choice but to work with what you had. How does the truck know it is being over worked. I have been doing this since 1994 for what I can remember. The truck never told me it was being over worked. You just have to know what you are doing and don't hot dog it.


Roll your window down and listen, the truck will tell you.


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

RichardBongIII said:


> if the two truck works in tandem better they remove those windrows more efficiently.


https://www.instagram.com/reel/CYCU3oaFE99/?utm_medium=copy_link


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jonniesmooth said:


> https://www.instagram.com/reel/CYCU3oaFE99/?utm_medium=copy_link


Metal Pless cleans better...


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Metal Pless cleans better...


You wouldn't be driving those new Cats then...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You wouldn't be driving those new Cats then...


With chrome stacks?


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> With chrome stacks?


Seems they're mostly black...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Seems they're mostly black...


Wouldn't know, can't afford a Cat.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

kg26 said:


> this video illustrates my point big bites vs smaller bites aka windrowing. Look at the spill over or trails left over from trying to use the full blade vs windrowing.


I could only bear to watch the first couple minutes...


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

jonniesmooth said:


> Roll your window down yell obscenities, the truck will tell you.


And honk the horn...


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> I could only bear to watch the first couple minutes...


I was waiting for him to back into the other truck, that was sitting there doing nothing.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Randall Ave said:


> I was waiting for him to back into the other truck, that was sitting there doing nothing.


Cameraman's truck.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Any chance that video was taken in Missery?

@antlerartsomethingorother


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

RichardBongIII said:


> I have had an engine go on me while plowing...





kg26 said:


> this video illustrates my point big bites vs smaller bites aka windrowing. Look at the spill over or trails left over from trying to use the full blade vs windrowing.


He's getting spill over because he's in scoop, not sure why he can't just windrow all that to the right side, the other truck is useless, and the truck down yonder is also useless.


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

jonniesmooth said:


> https://www.instagram.com/reel/CYCU3oaFE99/?utm_medium=copy_link


yeah something like that.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Randall Ave said:


> I was waiting for him to back into the other truck, that was sitting there doing nothing.


So your saying that lot has more than 1 to many trucks in it?


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> So your saying that lot has more than 1 to many trucks in it?


Well maybe not, if the Ferds got. 6.0 in it you need three. The 6.0 is gonna fail, so truck #2 has to drag out the Ferd. Truck #3 finishes the lot.


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

KGB26, 

here is the best way to learn. put your phone stopwatch on plow a decent sized parking lot the way you want with small bites. Then try it the next storm taking maximum sized pushes each time with your plow. Check the times and see which one allowed you to finish up faster. 

Then you will be able to know for yourself which method is best for you.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Or maybe it just takes some time and experience to learn how to become proficient at plowing.

Not that it’s rocket science but it can be difficult trying to learn from watching somebody’s YouTube vid


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

RichardBongIII said:


> KGB26,
> 
> here is the best way to learn. put your phone stopwatch on plow a decent sized parking lot the way you want with small bites. Then try it the next storm taking maximum sized pushes each time with your plow. Check the times and see which one allowed you to finish up faster.
> 
> Then you will be able to know for yourself which method is best for you.


What if the first snow is 2" and the second snow is 3"?

How do you factor time adjustment for the amount of snow?


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

You use a Snow Quadric equation.


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Philbilly2 said:


> What if the first snow is 2" and the second snow is 3"?
> 
> How do you factor time adjustment for the amount of snow?


I'm sure there's a theory that covers that.


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

RichardBongIII said:


> KGB26,
> 
> here is the best way to learn. put your phone stopwatch on plow a decent sized parking lot the way you want with small bites. Then try it the next storm taking maximum sized pushes each time with your plow. Check the times and see which one allowed you to finish up faster.
> 
> Then you will be able to know for yourself which method is best for you.


I would think even guys that charge per push still keep track of the time spent at each account. For training,reference and other reasons.


----------



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

BossPlow2010 said:


> He's getting spill over because he's in scoop, not sure why he can't just windrow all that to the right side, the other truck is useless, and the truck down yonder is also useless.


Think the 3rd truck is the person recording


----------



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

jonniesmooth said:


> I would think even guys that charge per push still keep track of the time spent at each account. For training,reference and other reasons.


I do


----------



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

jonniesmooth said:


> Well yeah.
> You said you have a 2" trigger. So once it hits 2" you don't stop till it quits snowing.
> The last round might not have 2" ,that's the clean up phase. Hopefully the streets have been plowed by then too, so you get that in the last loop and don't have to go out just to get that.


We dont really get massive events like that maybe 1 or 2 a year depending on the year. Most time one visit is enough. We probably get two 6" to 8" events a year those I make two visits.


----------



## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

jonniesmooth said:


> Well yeah.
> You said you have a 2" trigger. So once it hits 2" you don't stop till it quits snowing.
> The last round might not have 2" ,that's the clean up phase. Hopefully the streets have been plowed by then too, so you get that in the last loop and don't have to go out just to get that.


Yeah at the end of the driveway when the city comes and dumps sluch at the end of everyone's driveway.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Randall Ave said:


> Truck #3 finishes the lot.


What if truck #3 is also a Ford?


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> What if truck #3 is also a Ford?


Use the equation y = x + 2
Y is how many trucks you'll need.
X is how many 6.0s you have
The +2 must be non 6.0 trucks

I'm assuming the one tow truck can come back to haul multiple 6.0s


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Philbilly2 said:


> What if the first snow is 2" and the second snow is 3"?
> 
> How do you factor time adjustment for the amount of snow?


The difference in time is marginal. in those depths.


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

jonniesmooth said:


> I would think even guys that charge per push still keep track of the time spent at each account. For training,reference and other reasons.


Some may or may not. If he does great. Then all you have to do is look at the back records for a comprable storm and see the time it took you to complete the job. Then you can do the new method and see what your results are compared to last years. My bet is that most people just try to get lot to lot as fast possible and really don't do an accurate measurement of time to complete the job.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

RichardBongIII said:


> The difference in time is marginal. in those depths.


What if the ambient air temp is zero for the 2" snow and it is 30 degrees for the 3" snow

difference in plowing time then?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Or moisture content is 3:1 for the 3" and 20:1 for the 2".


----------



## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

RichardBongIII said:


> My bet is that most people just try to get lot to lot as fast possible and really don't do an accurate measurement of time to complete the job.


I think you'd probably lose that bet. Commercial plowing is a constant battle against the clock, and I'm sure I wasn't the only person constantly keeping track of the time when plowing.........


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Or moisture content is 3:1 for the 3" and 20:1 for the 2".


Hey Peabody... my witness... keep throwing rocks somewhere else. :laugh:


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Hey Peabody... my witness... keep throwing rocks somewhere else. :laugh:


Sew mulch anger...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> Some may or may not. If he does great. Then all you have to do is look at the back records for a comprable storm and see the time it took you to complete the job. Then you can do the new method and see what your results are compared to last years. My bet is that most people just try to get lot to lot as fast possible and really don't do an accurate measurement of time to complete the job.


We track time for every job...it's called job costing.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

And if I have to be done by eight but I’m usually done by seven , I would never notice if I’m running early or late.


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

jomama45 said:


> I think you'd probably lose that bet. Commercial plowing is a constant battle against the clock, and I'm sure I wasn't the only person constantly keeping track of the time when plowing.........


Only commercial?
People don't have to get to work in the morning or home at night?


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

EWSplow said:


> Only commercial?
> People don't have to get to work in the morning or home at night?


When we did rally routes it was a race to get done before they got out of bed in the am...

If you were gone before they woke up,
Then they were not able to come out and tell you how bad you are at your job and ask why you put all the snow at the end of their driveway and ask why all the snow is in their yard and then ask pretty please if you can just swipe the end of their drive then mother f you when you say your not allowed to.

Yeah I remember the race well


----------



## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

EWSplow said:


> Only commercial?
> People don't have to get to work in the morning or home at night?


By "commercial ", I meant professionally, for profit. vs. plowing your parents driveway for grins.......

Don't focus on what I type, focus on what I mean.......


----------



## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Philbilly2 said:


> When we did rally routes it was a race to get done before they got out of bed in the am...
> 
> If you were gone before they woke up,
> Then they were not able to come out and tell you how bad you are at your job and ask why you put all the snow at the end of their driveway and ask why all the snow is in their yard and then ask pretty please if you can just swipe the end of their drive then mother f you when you say your not allowed to.
> ...


Don't forget about the "are you coming back in Spring to fix the lawn you destroyed ".........


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

jomama45 said:


> Don't focus on what I type, focus on what I mean.......


I'm still trying to figure out the Packers by 30...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jomama45 said:


> By "commercial ", I meant professionally, for profit. vs. plowing your parents driveway for grins.......
> 
> Don't focus on what I type, focus on what I mean.......


You're Dutch?

Take a Hollander for what he means, not what he says.


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

jomama45 said:


> Don't focus on what I type, focus on what I mean.......


Do your daughters have a blank look on their faces when you talk to them?


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> When we did rally routes it was a race to get done before they got out of bed in the am...
> 
> If you were gone before they woke up,
> Then they were not able to come out and tell you how bad you are at your job and ask why you put all the snow at the end of their driveway and ask why all the snow is in their yard and then ask pretty please if you can just swipe the end of their drive then mother f you when you say your not allowed to.
> ...


Yes, and be long gone before they get home in the evening.


----------



## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

EWSplow said:


> Yes, and be long gone before they get home in the evening.


That used to be my official motto in my previous career.............


----------



## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

EWSplow said:


> Do your daughters have a blank look on their faces when you talk to them?


In live in a house with 3 females, do you think I ever actually get a word in?



Ajlawn1 said:


> I'm still trying to figure out the Packers by 30...


Me too, I was going to blame it on "Drunk Joe", but I posted in the morning........



Mark Oomkes said:


> You're Dutch?
> 
> Take a Hollander for what he means, not what he says.


Heck NO! Just for the record, I've been called far worse by far better people...........


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

jomama45 said:


> In live in a house with 3 females, do you think I ever actually get a work in?
> 
> Me too, I was going to blame it on "Drunk Joe", but I posted in the morning........
> 
> Heck NO! Just for the record, I've been called far worse by far better people...........


Did you stop at soblemans for breakfast?


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

jomama45 said:


> Don't forget about the "are you coming back in Spring to fix the lawn you destroyed ".........


Oh yeah... I just tell them, "you bet! I will be back as soon as it melts and get that fixed right up for you"










Give them a big smile as you drive away as they just became a new target for every last ounce of snow from the cul-de-sac EVERY time you plow it.


----------



## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

oopppssss.....


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> Oh yeah... I just tell them, "you bet! I will be back as soon as it melts and get that fixed right up for you"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Get out of my head….

but it's " i'll get right on that" Thumbs Up


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> We track time for every job...it's called job costing.


How accurately do you track it?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> How accurately do you track it?


Very


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Very


Yes, and Why wouldn't anyone, it works for site verification 2.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Yes, and Why wouldn't anyone, it works for site verification 2.


What?


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

17' bites in 4.5" with the Cat early today, didn't hardly notice it till the last 50-75' of a 700' push.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What?


We put times on invoices on per push accounts, this way we can show we were on site during the times listed.
We record it on seasonal accounts, but do not show it on the invoice unless specified


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> We put times on invoices on per push accounts, this way we can show we were on site during the times listed.
> We record it on seasonal accounts, but do not show it on the invoice unless specified


That's just silly talk.


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

RichardBongIII said:


> Some may or may not. If he does great. Then all you have to do is look at the back records for a comprable storm and see the time it took you to complete the job. Then you can do the new method and see what your results are compared to last years. My bet is that most people just try to get lot to lot as fast possible and really don't do an accurate measurement of time to complete the job.


And you would be wrong.
What do you do when the customers question their bill?
You look at your records of when and how long you were there. Aldo notes of the snow amount and wind speeds.


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Or moisture content is 3:1 for the 3" and 20:1 for the 2".





jonniesmooth said:


> And you would be wrong.
> What do you do when the customers question their bill?
> You look at your records of when and how long you were there. Aldo notes of the snow amount and wind speeds.


What if I the client keeps his records and they conflict with yours? And how accurate are your recording keeping methods? Are you testing every client's area for mositure content in the snow, are you taking local wind speed, humidity and temperature measurements with certified instruments, and what is your timing methods? To me the best you can do is use the NSW to back your statements and give a rough estimate of time. Which in most cases will tell enough of the story.


----------



## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)




----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

jomama45 said:


> View attachment 231971


Sure shake your head.


----------



## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

"It's only rocket science when you are building rockets "...........


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> What if I the client keeps his records and they conflict with yours? And how accurate are your recording keeping methods? Are you testing every client's area for mositure content in the snow, are you taking local wind speed, humidity and temperature measurements with certified instruments, and what is your timing methods? To me the best you can do is use the NSW to back your statements and give a rough estimate of time. Which in most cases will tell enough of the story.


Pay attention....a question was asked of you and since you didn't like it you change the parameters.

Just answer the question already.


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

jomama45 said:


> I think you'd probably lose that bet. Commercial plowing is a constant battle against the clock, and I'm sure I wasn't the only person constantly keeping track of the time when plowing.........


Accurately, did you time the completion of a jobsite? How accurately did you measure for people stopping in the middle of the job to answer one of your check up texts or finish up his or her coffee. Odds are you getting a very rough estimate of time of completion. Unless you have a foreperson on the site collecting all this data. Or you have GPS on your trucks and you're watching all the idle times and moving times and then caliculating it from that data.


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

jomama45 said:


> "It's only rocket science when you are building rockets "...........


It's just being realistic. Yes, you could actually collect all of this data but you would be spending a fortune in monitoring software and data analysis.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> Accurately, did you time the completion of a jobsite? How accurately did you measure for people stopping in the middle of the job to answer one of your check up texts or finish up his or her coffee. Odds are you getting a very rough estimate of time of completion. Unless you have a foreperson on the site collecting all this data. Or you have GPS on your trucks and you're watching all the idle times and moving times and then caliculating it from that data.


You really don't comprehend how any business in the real world works, do you?


----------



## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You really don't comprehend how any business in the real world works, do you?


Right... so tell me how accurate are all of your measurements are in this case when it comes to watching say 30 different employees.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> Right... so tell me how accurate are all of your measurements are in this case when it comes to watching say 30 different employees.


You haven't answered Phil's question so I'm not answering yours.

Besides, you'll just change the parameters again.

PS This question proves that you don't understand real world business.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Philbilly2 said:


> What if the ambient air temp is zero for the 2" snow and it is 30 degrees for the 3" snow
> 
> difference in plowing time then?


You're going to have to create a baseline for comparsion. So, that will be a theoretical model where the only factor that matters in depth of snow. So that creates your model's baseline prediction. Then you can create modeling for different temperatures and moisture content depending the snow. Then you have to basically either lab produce these effects and use scale modeling to complete the model or just wait until you get conditions that create a broad enough spectrum for create a scale to use in your modelling.

Now, in reality you might just lump all a light weight low density snow in to a say category A create a scale based on this amount as you plow. Category B snow could be high density and you create a scale based on that to plow. So, you could say the rule for a category A snow is that with snow between 20:1 and 10:1 moisture content every 1 inch of snow adds say 3 minutes to your plowing operation. and Category B snow is 9:1 to 1:1 snow and that adds say 8 minutes to your plowing times.

I was suggesting a much easy method. Right if you get 10 storms this year and do really really good record keeping of the snow plowing operation. And focused on plowing-- didn't check your phone ten times in a lot. Or waste time drinking coffee, or opening up a candy bar, snacking ect-- so on. All things people do that slow them down. We are talking about trying to get an absolute measurement of time taken. Which is really hard to do. Becuase people tend to waste time unintentionally when doing tasks.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

RichardBongIII said:


> Accurately, did you time the completion of a jobsite? How accurately did you measure for people stopping in the middle of the job to answer one of your check up texts or finish up his or her coffee. Odds are you getting a very rough estimate of time of completion. Unless you have a foreperson on the site collecting all this data. Or you have GPS on your trucks and you're watching all the idle times and moving times and then caliculating it from that data.


Time to service a property varies even when you compare events when there's the same accumulation. Snow moisture content ( wet snow pushes harder that dry fluff), ground temps ( warm ground flash freezes when uncovered and ground speed reduces), wind ( drifting in makes for hard snow and reduces visibility which reduces ground speed), time of day is it's a bizznezz are all variables for time and fuel consumption.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

With in + or - 3%

As employees are always drinking coffee, smoking, a sneezing, picking their nose, stopping to pee, fiddeling with the radio, talking to the girlfriend on the phone , need fuel , break down, check Plow site,, so it averages out.

Scientifically, the time is what the time is regardless of what happened in the timeframe.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

RichardBongIII said:


> You're going to have to create a baseline for comparsion. So, that will be a theoretical model where the only factor that matters in depth of snow. So that creates your model's baseline prediction. Then you can create modeling for different temperatures and moisture content depending the snow. Then you have to basically either lab produce these effects and use scale modeling to complete the model or just wait until you get conditions that create a broad enough spectrum for create a scale to use in your modelling.
> 
> Now, in reality you might just lump all a light weight low density snow in to a say category A create a scale based on this amount as you plow. Category B snow could be high density and you create a scale based on that to plow. So, you could say the rule for a category A snow is that with snow between 20:1 and 10:1 moisture content every 1 inch of snow adds say 3 minutes to your plowing operation. and Category B snow is 9:1 to 1:1 snow and that adds say 8 minutes to your plowing times.
> 
> I was suggesting a much easy method. Right if you get 10 storms this year and do really really good record keeping of the snow plowing operation. And focused on plowing-- didn't check your phone ten times in a lot. Or waste time drinking coffee, or opening up a candy bar, snacking ect-- so on. All things people do that slow them down. We are talking about trying to get an absolute measurement of time taken. Which is really hard to do. Becuase people tend to waste time unintentionally when doing tasks.


OR, you could simply stop attempting to give out advice on a professional snowplowing forum when you clearly have no experience plowing snow. There must be a huge Dungeons and Dragons forum out there that would fit you better.........


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

BUFF said:


> Time to service a property varies even when you compare events when there's the same accumulation. Snow moisture content ( wet snow pushes harder that dry fluff), ground temps ( warm ground flash freezes when uncovered and ground speed reduces), wind ( drifting in makes for hard snow and reduces visibility which reduces ground speed), time of day is it's a bizznezz are all variables for time and fuel consumption.


True-- but, if you want to just ask the simple question of is my plowing method the most efficient one possible. You're going to have to hold all of those other factors at zero. You want to just compare what happens when you take less than maximum pushes vs. something less than maximum amount on your blade per push. That's all I was telling the original poster. That's it. So you probably would want to use two storms that are a blizzard and a nice light snowy day. That would really be rather counter productive. Becuase of course the blizzard is going to factor in so many other issues like you've said. Again this isn't going to super perfect but it will give you a pretty good idea of which method is going to be the most effective.

Now, how much wear and tear between the two methods well you would have to put strain guages all over the truck. I've thought about putting strain guages on the plow frame to measure exactly how much force is exerted on the chassis. So, you could do it. But it would cost a boat load of cash to do.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

jomama45 said:


> OR, you could simply stop attempting to give out advice on a professional snowplowing forum when you clearly have no experience plowing snow. There must be a huge Dungeons and Dragons forum out there that would fit you better.........


Or you could learn how to do mathematical modeling.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

RichardBongIII said:


> What if I the client keeps his records and they conflict with yours? And how accurate are your recording keeping methods? Are you testing every client's area for mositure content in the snow, are you taking local wind speed, humidity and temperature measurements with certified instruments, and what is your timing methods? To me the best you can do is use the NSW to back your statements and give a rough estimate of time. Which in most cases will tell enough of the story.


Yes yes and what if the moon is made of cheese.

I haven't ever had a client ask me about the humidity and moisture content of the snow, since *YOU DON'T PLOW, *I'm guessing you haven't either

Maybe the lot wasn't serviced and they just drove around a bunch of times, or maybe they just gave you a black crayon to color in the lines…

also, you can get certified snow totals,


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

RichardBongIII said:


> Or you could learn how to do mathematical modeling.


Great idea, I could make millions performing theoretical snow removal!


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

RichardBongIII said:


> What if I the client keeps his records and they conflict with yours? And how accurate are your recording keeping methods? Are you testing every client's area for mositure content in the snow, are you taking local wind speed, humidity and temperature measurements with certified instruments, and what is your timing methods? To me the best you can do is use the NSW to back your statements and give a rough estimate of time. Which in most cases will tell enough of the story.


People like you get a termination of services letter that ends with, "we don't work for people that don't appreciate the services we provide and the conditions we work under".
I haven't had to send out many in nearly 30 years, and I turn down over 20 late call want to be customers every season. It works for me.
So tell me, if the weather guesser is wrong about how much snow fall we are going to get in any given time period 95% of the time.
Why should I trust their ability to accurately measure it after the fact?


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

jonniesmooth said:


> People like you get a termination of services letter that ends with, "we don't work for people that don't appreciate the services we provide and the conditions we work under".
> I haven't had to send out many in nearly 30 years, and I turn down over 20 late call want to be customers every season. It works for me.
> So tell me, if the weather guesser is wrong about how much snow fall we are going to get in any given time period 95% of the time.
> Why should I trust their ability to accurately measure it after the fact?


What are you getting upset about? You're the one that wants to talk about all these factors you jot down. You must have a vertiable weather collecting station in your truck to do it. I was just saying you want to bring out all this data you've collected to support your billing practices--what if the client is equally data obsessed as you claim you are? aren't you going to just open yourself to well my data is more accurate than your data arguments? Which to me seems absurd.

I wouldn't probably be your client because I would be doing as I do here pushing my own snow.

As for the weather persons-- is well difficult we have the same amount energy in our atmosphere as Neptune if I remember correctly from meterology class in College. It was taught by a professor that was a big deal in modeling weather in other planets in our solar system. He said it was harder to model weather on Earth than just about any other planet in the solar system. So, you might want to cut them some slack. Its not easy predicting weather especially now given all the extra energy in our planet's atmosphere from the warmer oceans.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

jomama45 said:


> Great idea, I could make millions performing theoretical snow removal!


There is nothing theoretical about this. The original poster can get a very good idea of which method is the most efficient by doing a series of time studies. The reason I doubt bigger companies are doing them is because they are costly to do and hard to do in a true sense with as many people as some of your corporations have. But one guy can easily do a time study on his plowing methods without any issues in cost.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Yes yes and what if the moon is made of cheese.
> 
> I haven't ever had a client ask me about the humidity and moisture content of the snow, since *YOU DON'T PLOW, *I'm guessing you haven't either
> 
> ...


YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT I"VE DONE IN MY CAREER! So maybe you should just sit back and chillout.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

RichardBongIII said:


> There is nothing theoretical about this. The original poster can get a very good idea of which method is the most efficient by doing a series of time studies. The reason I doubt bigger companies are doing them is because they are costly to do and hard to do in a true sense with as many people as some of your corporations have. But one guy can easily do a time study on his plowing methods without any issues in cost.


You don't believe bigger companies are keeping track of the times they service properties, you're wrong, again.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

RichardBongIII said:


> YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT I"VE DONE IN MY CAREER! So maybe you should just sit back and chillout.


I'm not saying what you've done, I'm saying what you don't do currently.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

BossPlow2010 said:


> You don't believe bigger companies are keeping track of the times they service properties, you're wrong, again.


Times yes. For example how many of you guys go to say 8 or 9 random locations and actually pick a driver and time his or her ability to accomplish a goal in a big lot? While you're intently timing this person do their work you're not watching the others and therefore not timing their work. It's the reason why Amazon decided to automate that part of the process. The time is coming and the software is getting cheaper but you still need to employ an analytics team to really get the most of out this stuff.

https://www.gofleet.com/industries/winter/
This is the kinda system you would need .


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I'm not saying what you've done, I'm saying what you don't do currently.


Not professionally any more but I plow every snow fall with one of my trucks.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Amazon is going to own the roads, we don’t like them, they’re ascarry…

We don’t plow random locations we have contracts with property owners/ managers for snow and ice management, but the properties aren’t random and the order they’re serviced isn’t random either.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Amazon is going to own the roads, we don't like them, they're ascarry…
> 
> We don't plow random locations we have contracts with property owners/ managers for snow and ice management, but the properties aren't random and the order they're serviced isn't random either.


No it isn't random. But to do a time study with a finite number of forepersons would be a pretty random activity for smaller companies unless they had serious software to monitor everyone at once.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

theoretically


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

We’ve all started at 2 AM ,
big bite billy goes over and starts on the Walmart, small bite Tim goes to the Dollar General, mighty Mike plows the quickly mart

when everybody gets done meet back at the Walmart . I know that mike will show up 
followed by Tim 20 minutes latter. 

Even if I don’t have a vehicle tracking software I have a good idea how long all my accounts take to plow so I know when they should be showing up. 


It’s actually fairly easy to get a feel for when your guys are lollygagging and when they’re being efficient.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

RichardBongIII said:


> YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT I"VE DONE IN MY CAREER! So maybe you should just sit back and chillout.


I'll take "Blew away all of my parents life savings for 400, Alex"......[/QUOTE]


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

What are we talking about if he has a system that works for his company thats fine. This part of what we're talking about is subjective.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> Times yes. For example how many of you guys go to say 8 or 9 random locations and actually pick a driver and time his or her ability to accomplish a goal in a big lot? While you're intently timing this person do their work you're not watching the others and therefore not timing their work. It's the reason why Amazon decided to automate that part of the process. The time is coming and the software is getting cheaper but you still need to employ an analytics team to really get the most of out this stuff.
> 
> https://www.gofleet.com/industries/winter/
> This is the kinda system you would need .


Udderly clueless.

Another wannabe with a couple of worthless degrees telling others with decades of experience how to run their businesses.

You are a post turtle.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kg26 said:


> What are we talking about if he hasca system that works for his company thats fine. This part of what we're talking about is subjective.


He doesn't have a system.

He doesn't have a snow and ice management company.

It's obvious he has no real experience owning or operating any company.

Go ahead and take his advice if you want, but it's as ridiculous as those 2 idiots in the video you posted.


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Mark Oomkes said:


> He doesn't have a system.
> 
> He doesn't have a snow and ice management company.
> 
> ...


In unrelated news, I got my first storm under my belt being in the truck, really fun, blade only tripped a couple of times I was expecting it to trip wayyy more. Straight driveways 2 cars wide I can get it done in 2 passes horse shoe drive good on those still room for improvement. But its thoses dang on 90 degree drivewats where you see the garage from the road but the door is behind what you can see those are tough.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kg26 said:


> In unrelated news, I got my first storm under my belt being in the truck, really fun, blade only tripped a couple of times I was expecting it to trip wayyy more. Straight driveways 2 cars wide I can get it done in 2 passes horse shoe drive good on those still room for improvement. But its thoses dang on 90 degree drivewats where you see the garage from the road but the door is behind what you can see those are tough.


I can go an entire night or week without tripping my blade.

2 passes? Isn't that working the truck a bit hard?


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## kg26 (Feb 5, 2013)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I can go an entire night or week without tripping my blade.
> 
> 2 passes? Isn't that working the truck a bit hard?


Lol I know what you're doing. A pass on each side of the driveway


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> No it isn't random. But to do a time study with a finite number of forepersons would be a pretty random activity for smaller companies unless they had serious software to monitor everyone at once.


If it's a smaller company, they won't have forepersonS. They might have one. Or two. And those forepersonS will have routes of their own.

Not sure if you missed the memo, but employees have been extremely difficult to find. Qualified employees with valid driver's licenses are even harder to find. Qualified employees with valid driver's licenses that want to plow snow are dang near unicorns.

Again, if you lived and operated a business in the real world you would know this.

Second, we've been tracking times for decades...literally. Before you could even buy a Commodore 64 or TRS80. You don't need serious software to track time and you don't have to have a foreperson watching someone to do time tracking. This statement also shows you've never managed employees or a company.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> Or you could learn how to do mathematical modeling.


BTW, how accurate are the mathematical models for the weather? How about forecasting recessions? Or upturn in the economy?


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> He doesn't have a system.
> 
> He doesn't have a snow and ice management company.
> 
> ...


You double talk all the time.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> If it's a smaller company, they won't have forepersonS. They might have one. Or two. And those forepersonS will have routes of their own.
> 
> Not sure if you missed the memo, but employees have been extremely difficult to find. Qualified employees with valid driver's licenses are even harder to find. Qualified employees with valid driver's licenses that want to plow snow are dang near unicorns.
> 
> ...


Okay so your time studies show the following: how much idle time on the lot, how much time spent moving snow productively, how much time spent clearing up the left over spillage ect and so on? How do you do all this without someone actually taking time to record it.

I actually used to record these factors but it was time consuming.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Dash cam

time data

can see the activity and time taken to
Complete tasks such as cleaning up trail offs and idle time.

Can fast forward and note time stamp.
Next tast note time start-stop. 
mext account


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> Okay so your time studies show the following: how much idle time on the lot, how much time spent moving snow productively, how much time spent clearing up the left over spillage ect and so on? How do you do all this without someone actually taking time to record it.
> 
> I actually used to record these factors but it was time consuming.


You don't have an analytics team?


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Hydromaster said:


> Dash cam
> 
> time data


Yes, you have a dashcam with time data... okay and you review hundreds of hours of footage each day from all your trucks? That's an efficient use of time.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> Okay so your time studies show the following: how much idle time on the lot, how much time spent moving snow productively, how much time spent clearing up the left over spillage ect and so on? How do you do all this without someone actually taking time to record it.
> 
> I actually used to record these factors but it was time consuming.





RichardBongIII said:


> Or you could learn how to do mathematical modeling.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You don't have an analytics team?


I was the analytics team.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

where is the message?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> where is the message?


Right in front of you.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Right in front of you.


Okay. I'll take the blank message as being totally meaningless. Just like this argument you guys manufactured over nothing. Oh and mathematical modeling is very accurate when you doing this kind of work where all the variables can be accounted for. Uncertainity is the hard part of modeling economics.

But never even suggested anything so radical. I suggested a simplier timed study to just get a broad understanding of plowing using different methods. Which is reasonable and totally doable for a single plow truck operator.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

RichardBongIII said:


> Yes, you have a dashcam with time data... okay and you review hundreds of hours of footage each day from all your trucks? That's an efficient use of time.


How do you know?

A inefficient use of time, hire somebody to go watch every guy for weeks on end to get the data then compile the data… in to something useful, sounds cheap…

when I can fast forward threw 4-5 hrs of footage when we are not busy


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> Oh and mathematical modeling is very accurate when you doing this kind of work where all the variables can be accounted for. Uncertainity is the hard part of modeling economics.


You've never managed, owned or operated a commercial snow and ice management business, have you?


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## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You've never managed, owned or operated a commercial snow and ice management business, have you?


2 college degrees, and living in his moms basement,it would appear.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You are a post turtle.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You've never managed, owned or operated a commercial snow and ice management business, have you?


actually, i have.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RichardBongIII said:


> actually, i have.


Maybe I should have added successfully???

Why was it too time consuming gathering that data?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Hobbies are not business
Business make money.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Commodore 64


God I miss Jordan vs. Bird...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> God I miss Jordan vs. Bird...


Back when the Pistons were a good team.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Hydromaster said:


> We've all started at 2 AM ,
> big bite billy goes over and starts on the Walmart, small bite Tim goes to the Dollar General, mighty Mike plows the quickly mart
> 
> when everybody gets done meet back at the Walmart . I know that mike will show up
> ...


I have pretty good data on this...

Subbed for a rinky dink outfit with a good sized portfolio built by previous generations for a few years when I first started in plowing.

I was partnered with my best friend at the time, we plowed the same lots every time. We were all hourly rate subcontractors, every year the pay was threatened to decrease, every event they would attempt to start us later and later but completion time was always expected to be the same.

They could never figure out why him and I always had the same exact hours on each lot for a 2" snow as a 6" snow but everyone else times were all over the place.

If you are not smart enough to figure this out... that is on you.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> Hobbies are not business
> Business make money.


So I mow as a hobby?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Ajlawn1 said:


> So I mow as a hobby?


I'll have to do a 4 month study to get you the answers.
Will use all sorts of math, rhythms 
And we might even use a little hocus-pocus


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Ajlawn1 said:


> So I mining as a hobby?


Fixed, probably…


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Question?

Were any of the vets/buisness owners here on plowsite using trucks and plows going to post a video of how they think a lot should be plowed/done comparing to the video that was posted of the Ford and Chevy tag teaming the lot?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ice-sage said:


> Question?
> 
> Were any of the vets/buisness owners here on plowsite using trucks and plows going to post a video of how they think a lot should be plowed/done comparing to the video that was posted of the Ford and Chevy tag teaming the lot?


Right after you post pics/vids of all your Holders clearing intricate sidewalks.

Ah, who am I kidding, I don't have time to take a video. Too bizzie deducting time from actual plowing while my guys are picking their noses.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Here is a short vid










Ice-sage said:


> Question?
> 
> Were any of the vets/buisness owners here on plowsite using trucks and plows going to post a video of how they think a lot should be plowed/done comparing to the video that was posted of the Ford and Chevy tag teaming the lot?


great idea
We'll be waiting for your vid.
As I'm sure you lead by example.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Fixed, probably…


I'm not sure you fixed it.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

I have to agree with Ice-Sage-- do show us how it is done correctly Mark. You font of all information. And please teach us your data collection methods as well.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Philbilly2 said:


> I have pretty good data on this...
> 
> Subbed for a rinky dink outfit with a good sized portfolio built by previous generations for a few years when I first started in plowing.
> 
> ...


Why don't you tell KGB26 your secret?


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

We don't plow lots.

This thread is about plowing straight, v, "big billy bites", and windrowing. The thread went off the rails on the first page. Here we are 11 pages later. You guys can talk to and tell the original poster whatever you want. Pretty sure this thread could have been 1 or 2 pages if the vets in buisness for decades would have posted anybodys videos of what they think is the correct and most efficient way to plow a lot. Pretty simple eh? The OP wasn't really entitled to anything more. Just let em deduce what to do correctly from a video with your thoughts.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Data collection is simple:










But hey, if I answer anymore questions you'll just change the parameters of the discussion.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Ice-sage said:


> We don't plow lots.
> 
> This thread is about plowing straight, v, "big billy bites", and windrowing. The thread went off the rails on the first page. Here we are 11 pages later. You guys can talk to and tell the original poster whatever you want. Pretty sure this thread could have been 1 or 2 pages if the vets in buisness for decades would have posted anybodys videos of what they think is the correct and most efficient way to plow a lot. Pretty simple eh? The OP wasn't really entitled to anything more. Just let em deduce what to do correctly from a video with your thoughts.


i meant i agree with you Ice-Sage that Mark should show us how it is done. I would settle with a diagram.


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## RichardBongIII (Dec 8, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Data collection is simple:
> 
> View attachment 232087
> 
> ...


Data collection with a pencil... Very high tech I see you went with the standard no2 a classic choice.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

RichardBongIII said:


> Why don't you tell KGB26 your secret?


Drive fast... take chances


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

Ice-sage said:


> We don't plow lots.
> 
> This thread is about plowing straight, v, "big billy bites", and windrowing. The thread went off the rails on the first page. Here we are 11 pages later. You guys can talk to and tell the original poster whatever you want. Pretty sure this thread could have been 1 or 2 pages if the vets in buisness for decades would have posted anybodys videos of what they think is the correct and most efficient way to plow a lot. Pretty simple eh? The OP wasn't really entitled to anything more. Just let em deduce what to do correctly from a video with your thoughts.


agree with you on this...so locking this thread for any future discussions


----------

