# Old Cable style Western



## jfleming (Jan 8, 2013)

So what gives the lift cyclinder the power/strenght to lift the plow under a snow load. Currently the plow functions really well as far as the angle and lift goes as a dry run in the garge or with no snow load. Last night we had the lightest 5" of snow ever and the plow would struggle when lifting at the pile, it does lift just slowly. I understand when it is a wet heavy snow fall, but with this light fluffy snow I would not think it should struggle...

Any advise would be appreciate....

thanks


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## johnhenry1933 (Feb 11, 2013)

Know that left, right and down strokes are easy on the hydraulics, up is the hardest. I would check the fluid and screen (for proper level, viscosity, cleanliness, and that the screen is not clogged), that the gland nut on the cylinder is not too tight, and then the valve (S3 on yours I believe).


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jfleming;1876471 said:


> So what gives the lift cyclinder the power/strenght to lift the plow under a snow load. Currently the plow functions really well as far as the angle and lift goes as a dry run in the garge or with no snow load. Last night we had the lightest 5" of snow ever and the plow would struggle when lifting at the pile, it does lift just slowly. I understand when it is a wet heavy snow fall, but with this light fluffy snow I would not think it should struggle...
> 
> Any advise would be appreciate....
> 
> thanks


You need to do pressure test then adjust it accordingly. If unable to get pressure up to specs it may time to rebuild or replace the pump.

PS johnhenry, there is no S3 on cable pump.


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## johnhenry1933 (Feb 11, 2013)

kimber750;1876575 said:


> PS johnhenry, there is no S3 on cable pump.


Oh. Thanks kimber. I have three uni's, and I thought they were very close to the conventionals.


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## jfleming (Jan 8, 2013)

Can you give me some direction on how to do a pressure test and what the exceptable pressures are?

You mention a screen, where is this located at? 

As far as fluid level goes, we have always just filled it to the top of the fill plug.

You mention the gland nut, I notice the nut is tigheten all the way down, I would assume the packing/seal needs replace, from being tightened over time, allowing the nut to be all the way down

I was going to change out the fluid. We have always run ATF fulid in the pump, does that pose any issues

When changing the fuild out of the pump what would be the easest what to get the fluid out of the angle cyclinders


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Top of the fill plug,,,,,no........


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## SKYNYRD (Jan 13, 2009)

i think i grabbed the right link for you... http://www.westernplows.com/wp/pdf/Mechanic's Guide - Conventional Cable Operated (long version).pdf


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## Colonel Monk (Feb 12, 2014)

Great Service Manual, thanks for that.


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## SKYNYRD (Jan 13, 2009)

Colonel Monk;1876697 said:


> Great Service Manual, thanks for that.


you're welcome :waving:


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## jfleming (Jan 8, 2013)

dieselss;1876601 said:


> Top of the fill plug,,,,,no........


I don't see a fill level bolt or anything like that on this old plow housing....

It appears to have a drain and a fill point...


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## Colonel Monk (Feb 12, 2014)

jfleming;1877747 said:


> I don't see a fill level bolt or anything like that on this old plow housing....
> 
> It appears to have a drain and a fill point...


I think the manual said bottom of the threads. You don't want to fill all the way and then force the fill plug in, that's asking for a blown seal somewhere....


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

No I think it's a inch or two down. Ck the manual


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## Colonel Monk (Feb 12, 2014)

Says "fill reservoir to the filler hole threads and replace plug" page 2-4.

This is for Isarmatic Mark IIIA.


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## jfleming (Jan 8, 2013)

the manual from the link above says to the threads, however I am not sure if this is the correct manual for my unit as my filter is a thread in filter not a push on one..... But I assume t should be the same...


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## Colonel Monk (Feb 12, 2014)

jfleming;1877777 said:


> the manual from the link above says to the threads, however I am not sure if this is the correct manual for my unit as my filter is a thread in filter not a push on one..... But I assume t should be the same...


You wrote filter, with a "T".... Not sure what you meant, but I was talking about filler (both "L"s) hole.

I didn't look at the filter, if that's what you're using to identify it. My unit is slightly older than this manual (red T handle controller, not black joystick) but the pump unit is the same, same filler.

I guess you need to figure that out.


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## jfleming (Jan 8, 2013)

kimber750;1876575 said:


> You need to do pressure test then adjust it accordingly. If unable to get pressure up to specs it may time to rebuild or replace the pump.
> 
> PS johnhenry, there is no S3 on cable pump.


So my pressure gauge came in the mail today, I assembled it with the quick connector fitting. Went out to the truck, (33 degrees out) unplugged the bottom hose (goes to left side cylinder) started the truck up and angled the controller to the left, zero reading, angled the controller to the right and instantly hits 2000lbs. So where do I go from here with the information I have. The plow struggles to lift with little load on it. Please advise....

thanks


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## Colonel Monk (Feb 12, 2014)

Sounds to me that your pump is fine, you seem to have a valving issue.

You might take off your control cavity covers and have a helper actuate the control while you watch what's happening in the cavity. Might even take the cables off and actuate the valves by hand. You need a helper to even still - the control also starts the motor. They can do this by pulling the stick, and then while the motor is running you can run the valves with your finger.

The upper valve, up is up and down is down, the lower valve I think down is left and up is right. The Cable should move approximately 5/16" from center when actuated.

My cables are the red unadjustable type, but if you are running the adjustable type you might want to make sure that when the stick is centered, so are the valves!! So if you have them too tight, you may not get the valve fully open for lifting, and ditto for the angling.

Basically, running without the cables can tell you if you have a control issue or actual valve problem. Ice buildup in the cavities of you have a leak can also mess this up.


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## jfleming (Jan 8, 2013)

Colonel Monk;1893424 said:


> Sounds to me that your pump is fine, you seem to have a valving issue.
> 
> You might take off your control cavity covers and have a helper actuate the control while you watch what's happening in the cavity. Might even take the cables off and actuate the valves by hand. You need a helper to even still - the control also starts the motor. They can do this by pulling the stick, and then while the motor is running you can run the valves with your finger.
> 
> ...


I know for sure there is no water or ice build up. I will have to get into checking the cable adjustments. If anyone else has any ideas let me know. Whats your thoughts on the lift valve needing adjustments? It appears to be stuck so I need to get after loosening it up....


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## Colonel Monk (Feb 12, 2014)

jfleming;1894258 said:


> I know for sure there is no water or ice build up. I will have to get into checking the cable adjustments. If anyone else has any ideas let me know. Whats your thoughts on the lift valve needing adjustments? It appears to be stuck so I need to get after loosening it up....


Hmmm, well I do know, that the little valve levers move really easily, so I suppose it's possible that these are "pilot-operated" valves? Pilot-operated means that they use a small amount of pressure from a tiny valve to operate a larger valve. Basically, a spool valve is like a hydraulic cylinder, it moves to and fro to control fluid path, so the "pilot" circuit would pressurize on end of the spool or the other....

I don't know if this is how the valving works or not... What's I'd do, is test out what I mentioned about disconnecting the cables, and remove that from the equation so that you can test the function of the valves themselves. If you were able to register 2000psi on one outlet then I'm saying you've got no pump issues, but the valves aren't getting you where you need to go.

Look closely at the link above, it might be time to take your unit to the bench and disassemble, might need to replace some seals or something to get it working again.


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