# Loose Lug Nuts



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So we've had a few issues on several trucks with lug nuts loosening up. One was on Ole Yeller a few days ago, wiped oot 2 wheels and the studs on one side, the other side were loose and had to replace the wheels there as well. One side had been oof recently, the other not in several years.

Another had a couple loose lug nuts and egged out a couple holes on the wheel. Hadn't been oof in a couple years.

One other one aboot a month ago they came loose on one side and we replaced studs and a wheel. 

Any suggestions as to cause? Trucks just getting older? No, we haven't been using a torque wrench. Fronts and rears. Getting a bit frustrated.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Too mulch time on plowsite, not enuf time chekin equipment.....?..?..trying to make useful posts for once...your wellcum btw


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I was hoping you would answer...


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Seriously though, how old are these vehicles this is happening on.?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Aluminum or steel wheels?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

My 5500 rears started doing that this year too... First time, but now we did take them off for tire replacement and brake work. Now when we did put them back on we did use a pipe and breaker bar to tighten.....


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

It happens more with duallys, pretty expensive way to learn to get in the habit of checking them, even if its once a month, timed properly it gets you out of the house at the perfect time to save your sanity.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Ajlawn1 said:


> My 5500 rears started doing that this year too... First time, but now we did take them off for tire replacement and brake work. Now when we did put them back on we did use a pipe and breaker bar to tighten.....


I've always been told the most common cause is overtightening then


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

markO, do you guys hand tighten, air impact, or elec impact to install the nutz ? Personally I’ve found air impacts to be the fastest but the most finicky and inconsistent...but that’s just my experiences


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

plow4beer said:


> I've always been told the most common cause is overtightening then


That was the reason that my outside drivers side dual passed me one night going to salt in a 1 ton...

Stretched the lugs.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

plow4beer said:


> Seriously though, how old are these vehicles this is happening on.?


Old

Steel


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

plow4beer said:


> I've always been told the most common cause is overtightening then


After tire replacement we impacted and they were loose that week... Did the brakes, now they stand on pipes and haven't had an issue yet... So no clue....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

did you recently steel some work from someone???

Maybe revenge??


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> did you recently steel some work from someone???
> 
> Maybe revenge??


I could think of a million easier ways then trying to break loose some rusty azz lug nuts....lol


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## fhafer (Jan 31, 2014)

I'd be checking security tapes of the yard if available. Too many coincidences.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Depending on how old the studs and lugs are...Replace studs and lugs if you have owned it for a while or you don't know how long it's been since replacement...Visual inspections everytime the truck is started...Look for rust around lugs...Wear on the rims around lug holes...Also have to make sure wheel bearings are all in good shape


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Had this happen on my first enclosed trailer my first year in business. I noticed some clunking, then saw a tire rolling across the road out of my mirror.

Wish I still had pictures. The lug holes on the wheel became so stretched that the wheel actually came off around the lug nuts. I do a better walk around now...

Had a few other things wrong with that trailer so I sold it. Never had a problem since with the newer trailer


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Old


Understood...there's your answer then.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> After tire replacement we impacted and they were loose that week... Did the brakes, now they stand on pipes and haven't had an issue yet... So no clue....


Sometimes when new studs are installed...They don't get all the way seated...This will cause the lugs to be loose...


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Ajlawn1 said:


> After tire replacement we impacted and they were loose that week... Did the brakes, now they stand on pipes and haven't had an issue yet... So no clue....


Air or elec impact?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Depending on how old the studs and lugs are...Replace studs and lugs if you have owned it for a while or you don't know how long it's been since replacement...Visual inspections everytime the truck is started...Look for rust around lugs...Wear on the rims around lug holes...Also have to make sure wheel bearings are all in good shape


Much more helpful than @plow4beer


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

plow4beer said:


> Air or elec impact?


Air


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

plow4beer said:


> Air or elec impact?


Air 1/2" with a little 3/4" help probably not enough cfm though.... 20V Dewalt has done some impressive stuff but for sure not up to the task on this....


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Much more helpful than @plow4beer


Hey now I'm trying at least...and at least I'm not the one with wheels & spinners falling off left and right


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

plow4beer said:


> Hey now I'm trying at least...and at least I'm not the one with wheels & spinners falling off left and right


Just so Angry and Bitter...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Time for some indicators Oomkes...

Just in case you are not clear how they work...

Before you leave home... always check your nuts...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Time for some indicators Oomkes...
> 
> Just in case you are not clear how they work...
> 
> ...


If those had Jagoof lights on them...He would be all over them


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Defcon 5 said:


> If those had Jagoof lights on them...He would be all over them


Ah...


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## Walleye Hunter (Aug 13, 2017)

One way to tell if any lugs are loose on a heavy truck is look for rust stains emanating from the lug area. Water will wash through there and leave a rust trail when it rains.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Ah...
> 
> View attachment 176913


There we go Mark.....Good Find


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

Blue Loctite Threadlocker (NOT red) usually works as long as things are seated well and torqued good and tight the first time through. Worn wheels is a common cause, that and overloading...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Woodenshoe said:


> Blue Loctite Threadlocker (NOT red) usually works as long as things are seated well and torqued good and tight the first time through. Worn wheels is a common cause, that and overloading...


Overloading! Who does that.....? I thought the GVW was more of a ball park recommendation thing.....


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Woodenshoe said:


> Blue Loctite Threadlocker (NOT red) usually works as long as things are seated well and torqued good and tight the first time through. Worn wheels is a common cause, that and overloading...


All out gravel trains and bulkers we do the opposite...We put anti seize on the threads


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

We anti-seize skid and wheel loader lugs, that or use a torch to take them off...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Woodenshoe said:


> and overloading...


I've heard this...but since it's been on the fronts I'm finding it a bit suspicious.


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## Hysert (Dec 16, 2009)

It' even more fun when ur tire passes you!!  lol....

In all seriousness I've had this happen yrs ago on a 3500! Now I check them regularly torque to spec too bc the threads are only good for so much torque, air impact will usually be more then what required therefore your stretching the threads.... loose wheels tends to sound like a crackling or often mistaken for a hanger bearing.. 

Fun times this snow biz EH....


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Just drove by a set of dual wheels on the sidewalk next to the road. Must be more than loose lugs there!


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark, what is ole yeller?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

If only it looked as purty now...

'93 L8000 with a Marmon-Harrington 4WD conversion.

Dump box is gone, flatbed now. 10's muni Vbox. Most of the time the front blade is oof.

PS It's got a Cummings powerplant.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> View attachment 176915
> 
> 
> If only it looked as purty now...
> ...


Nice truck?
Do you run a pre wet system on any of your salters?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I can't tell if they are buds, or hub pilot. Don't have a real answer, rust can push things apart. When I have wheels off on stuff like that. A use a flexible sanding wheel on a air sander and clean everything up. Just finished putting springs on a C-8500 today. Had to de rust everything, she's a township salter. You got my #, call anytime.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

We use the torque limiting sockets on smaller trucks and have been please, I dictators on larger trucks. Regardless of truck size it's part of daily driver inspection checklist.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Overloading! Who does that.....? I thought the GVW was more of a ball park recommendation thing.....


It is a simple suggestion that is meant to be broken...

like a fiscal year budget...


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Randall Ave said:


> I can't tell if they are buds, or hub pilot. Don't have a real answer, rust can push things apart. When I have wheels off on stuff like that. A use a flexible sanding wheel on a air sander and clean everything up. Just finished putting springs on a C-8500 today. Had to de rust everything, she's a township salter. You got my #, call anytime.


I gotta agree with Randal. Have seen rust cause some real issues both on wheels that have been off recently and those that haven't.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Randall Ave said:


> I can't tell if they are buds, or hub pilot. Don't have a real answer, rust can push things apart. When I have wheels off on stuff like that. A use a flexible sanding wheel on a air sander and clean everything up. Just finished putting springs on a C-8500 today. Had to de rust everything, she's a township salter. You got my #, call anytime.


Hub pilot.

IT's aboot time for her to go even if she is a great truck. Parts are unavailable for the front axle when it goes bad and rust is getting the better of the cab. If'n I could find parts for the front, I'd consider a cab swap.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Guess we have some things to check in our "spare" time.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

It's not a 4x4. ? What can't you get for the front?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

It is 4x4...some seals, not sure exactly what. It was 3 or so years ago we had it apart.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Defcon 5 said:


> Just so Angry and Bitter...


To be completely honest, I haven't consumed any alcoholic beverages in over a week...and it's probably the cause of my strange behavior as of late............and I should probably go get some of those king kanz you mentioned the other day to get right...
................so what's your excuse?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

plow4beer said:


> To be completely honest, I haven't consumed any alcoholic beverages in over a week...and it's probably the cause of my strange behavior as of late............and I should probably go get some of those king kanz you mentioned the other day to get right...
> ................so what's your excuse?


I neither Bitter nor Angry....I had my first Beer in four months on Saturday...The thrill is gone...


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Hub pilot.
> 
> IT's aboot time for her to go even if she is a great truck. Parts are unavailable for the front axle when it goes bad and rust is getting the better of the cab. If'n I could find parts for the front, I'd consider a cab swap.


Depends on how dedicated you are.

If I can find a Timken double reduction front axle for a '48 Sicard in a junkyard in California (from a 1943 White 666), you can surely find what you need. Whether it is economically viable is another question.

On topic- I always use a manual torque wrench, but If you must use an impact for installation of lug nuts, put an appropriate torque stick on it.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Hub pilot.
> 
> IT's aboot time for her to go even if she is a great truck. Parts are unavailable for the front axle when it goes bad and rust is getting the better of the cab. If'n I could find parts for the front, I'd consider a cab swap.


Typical yard monkey....Its broken...Just throw it away and get a new one...How much you want for it??


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Typical yard monkey....Its broken...Just throw it away and get a new one...How much you want for it??


$30k


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> $30k


I can build one for $21k


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I can build one for $21k


Understood


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Defcon 5 said:


> ..I had my first Beer in four months on Saturday......


understood...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Understood


K....


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

plow4beer said:


> understood...


K......


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark O did you ask Conner about this? I'm sure he has an answer, a formula or a book you can read about it.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Mark O did you ask Conner about this? I'm sure he has an answer, a formula or a book you can read about it.


??? He's a Philosophy major. No formulas, and Nietzche doesn't discuss this.

However, he does know of a 1960's Warsaw Pact tank transporter that would be suitable as a replacement once you adapt a locomotive v-plow to it.


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## midnight pumpkin (Jan 27, 2017)

I didn’t read all the posts but why would you even ask? If you aren’t using a torque wrench start there. And make sure people working on it are not putting anti seize on the studs.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> I can build one for $21k


That year? Or a left over 82 on the lot....?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Nevermind it'll just get deleted


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Aerospace Eng said:


> ??? He's a Philosophy major. No formulas, and Nietzche doesn't discuss this.
> 
> However, he does know of a 1960's Warsaw Pact tank transporter that would be suitable as a replacement once you adapt a locomotive v-plow to it.


I just wet myself...lmao.


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Torque stick then torque wrench, haven't had an issue....... yet. 

Had one of the case 721's come from the dealer with new snow tires on it, they didn't torque the bolts. one wheel only had 3 bolts in it, the other 5. both rims were totaled.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

midnight pumpkin said:


> I didn't read all the posts but why would you even ask? If you aren't using a torque wrench start there. And make sure people working on it are not putting anti seize on the studs.


Anti-seize has nothing to do with it.


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## midnight pumpkin (Jan 27, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Anti-seize has nothing to do with it.


Ok but it could have, had someone used some. I see it often enough. Over torquing because they are applying Lube to the studs, most often anti seize. They should be dry. Unless you know what you're doing and adjust torque accordingly.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Anti-seize has nothing to do with it.


I've taken wheels off with, and without anti sieze, never seen a set come off due to it. Only because they were not tightened enough. I think the torque on hub pilot is around 450. Most do not have a torque wrench for that.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Philbilly2 said:


> Time for some indicators Oomkes...
> 
> Just in case you are not clear how they work...
> 
> ...


Those might actually add a little buoyancy, perfect!

Mark, considering the vast amount of years you've been pi$$ing people off on internet forums, my vote is on sabotage.........


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

midnight pumpkin said:


> I didn't read all the posts but why would you even ask? If you aren't using a torque wrench start there. And make sure people working on it are not putting anti seize on the studs.


Have a Fleet of 23 Gravel Trains and 16 cement bulkers...42 Tires on the whole unit...Not once has one of our 20 mechanics use a Torque wrench when changing tires....Plus they put anti-seize on the threads....Getting the lugs tight with the proper size air gun is key...Too many people using undersized air guns...I have lost two sets of duals in those 25 years...Both times it was due to wheel bearing failure


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

midnight pumpkin said:


> Ok but it could have, had someone used some. I see it often enough. Over torquing because they are applying Lube to the studs, most often anti seize. They should be dry. Unless you know what you're doing and adjust torque accordingly.


What did I tell you yesterday Mark...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

My air gun of choice, I do have others. After you do it a few--------hundred times, ya kinda get the feel of it.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

:laughing::laugh:The usual suspects on this forum are coming by and turning them left.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> What did I tell you yesterday Mark...


I know...I didn't doubt you a bit.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Have a Fleet of 23 Gravel Trains and 16 cement bulkers...42 Tires on the whole unit...Not once has one of our 20 mechanics use a Torque wrench when changing tires....Plus they put anti-seize on the threads....Getting the lugs tight with the proper size air gun is key...Too many people using undersized air guns...I have lost two sets of duals in those 25 years...Both times it was due to wheel bearing failure


Watt????????


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Watt????????


Any update on if you're running a prevwet system on your salters?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Any update on if you're running a prevwet system on your salters?


Depends on how much beer I drank the night before...


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Depends on how much beer I drank the night before...


Understood.
You should give bourbon a try


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Randall Ave said:


> My air gun of choice, I do have others. After you do it a few--------hundred times, ya kinda get the feel of it.
> View attachment 176934


Probably a few people that have posted on here couldn't even pick that gun up...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Defcon 5 said:


> Probably a few people that have posted on here couldn't even pick that gun up...


That's the light one, I gots a BIGGER one than that.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Defcon 5 said:


> Probably a few people that have posted on here couldn't even pick that gun up...


probably because its the same size or bigger than them


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

I just noticed Con's got a post on heavy hauling maybe he has something lug nuts on there.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I just noticed Con's got a post on heavy hauling maybe he has something lug nuts on there.


Don't you have a sled to ride???


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Don't you have a sled to ride???


No it's too cold... At the restaurant they don't open till 9


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> No it's too cold... At the restaurant


I see a few single digits and below zero over by the Soo and eastern UP...that isn't that cold. 6° in Seney.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I see a few single digits and below zero over by the Soo and eastern UP...that isn't that cold. 6° in Seney.


-7 here in strongs


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Now that is chilly....but it was nice and will nice in a few days too.
Heated stuff...hand grips, seat, helmet, shield, boots, well...you get the picture.

By the way Mark....did you check the loose nut behind the wheel, I found that to be my case too often .

Did you figure it out yet ?? 

Stay warm L


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## acswaupaca1 (Jun 5, 2017)

I've been cursed with this problem on our F450. It's in the shop right now getting new lugs all the way around. Even used rims get expensive after buying 3...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So to summarize:

Use a torque wrench...or not.
Use a torque stick...or not.
Use thread locker...or not.
Use anti-seize...or not.
Use an impact...or not.
Use indicators...or not. (actually we had them on 2 of the 3 trucks)
Don't overload...or go ahead.

Thanks for the definitive answers. Thumbs UpThumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

acswaupaca1 said:


> I've been cursed with this problem on our F450. It's in the shop right now getting new lugs all the way around. Even used rims get expensive after buying 3...


Funny thing is, we used to anti-seize everything on our 450s and 550s because the lug nuts would rust on, the wheels would rust together and the inner would rust to the hub and we'd have to either beat them loose with a sledgehammer or loosen the lug nuts and do circles in the parking lot until they broke loose. So we anti-seized the snot out of them. Still didn't always help.

My tire company uses impacts and seldom\never a torque wrench.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So to summarize:
> 
> Use a torque wrench...or not.
> Use a torque stick...or not.
> ...


Don't forget:

Check your nuts... or not


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

So....Basically it's your fault according to a few on here that had a brief stint at a discount tire....No Torque Wrench...Used anti-sieze...I'm surprised the truck made it out of the yard


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> So....Basically it's your fault according to a few on here that had a brief stint at a discount tire....No Torque Wrench...Used anti-sieze...I'm surprised the truck made it out of the yard


Agreed...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> No it's too cold... At the restaurant they don't open till 9


What time's the bar open?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So to summarize:
> 
> Use a torque wrench...or not.
> Use a torque stick...or not.
> ...


I make sure everything is clean, no rust bumps, whatever. Spray the lug nuts with wd40. Then snug them up evenly so they are on square. Then tighten them up with the one inch gun. I'm running 180 psi, large hose. No pun intended.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Randall Ave said:


> What time's the bar open?


It's da UP...they never close.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Randall Ave said:


> I make sure everything is clean, no rust bumps, whatever. Spray the lug nuts with wd40. Then snug them up evenly so they are on square. Then tighten them up with the one inch gun. I'm running 180 psi, large hose. No pun intended.


That's part or our problem...need that new air compressor. Can't get enough volume or pressure oot of the 20 year old one that one of these days just isn't going to start up.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That's part or our problem...need that new air compressor. Can't get enough volume or pressure oot of the 20 year old one that one of these days just isn't going to start up.


You need a 1/2 inch air hose and the large couplers with any impat 3/4 inch or up


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> You need a 1/2 inch air hose and the large couplers with any impat 3/4 inch or up


What size torque wrench???....


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Defcon 5 said:


> What size torque wrench???....


That depends on if it's inch pounds, foot pounds or newton meter.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Still say...check that loose nut.


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