# Spreader Advice



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Alright right guys. I've been researching different spreaders, pros and cons, electic vs gas, different brands, etc. My heads about to explode, and it's time to get some direct answers from the guys who have been doing this for years. 

Around me I have a snowex, salt/snowdogg, boss, hiniker, and I'm not even considering the yellow brand. I was leaning towards the tornado, but no western dealers here. There is a company that sells the plows that I need to call Monday to see if they sell parts for the spreaders. If they do, I don't mind making a drive to another dealer get the spreader, as long as I don't have to go 150 miles to get parts in an emergency.

Here are my concerns and questions.

I know most of you talk about gas being so much more efficient. I would prefer to use electric based on cost, reduced weight, less issues, and basically maintenance free. With more of the newer electic models they have 2 motors, one for the spinner and other for the chain/auger. Are the arguments stating gas is better, spreads farther, etc. based on the older electic saltdoggs that used only 1 motor to control both the auger and the spinner? I know that the first storm, the company I sub for is always sending texts about needing help at different lots because of people's spreaders not starting or working. I would guess more of that is the gas engines not working properly over issues with electrical systems.

Is an auger feed system better, since it has less moving parts, and doesn't have a chain that needs oiled and cleaned? Obviously either would need cleaned regularly after storms, just less to clean and maintain.

Unfortunately, I purchased my truck not thinking of a spreader, so it has the 6.5' bed. I like the idea of poly (no rust), but would the western striker (assuming the dealer sells parts) be a better choice? Then I could add top rails and get more product in at a time.

What other things should I be looking at, or concerned with? Will I need to upgrade my electrical system if I get electic? I have never used a spreader (other than walk behind), so let me know what I need to look at, and also any tips on what to watch out for.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

How many tons per event do you expect to spread, on what size properties?


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Really does come down to how much are you spreading a night but you are close to land locked with the bed length..

Buyers a few years ago didn't have a great controller, seen a lot of complaints about it - I bought one in 2007 and still use it with virtually no problems. Back then it was wow compared to a tailgate spreader but it's slug slow compared to our other spreaders.

I wonder about electric drag chains, if they work well or not - you can raise a gate and put down some material compared to an auger, if they have the power.

If I bought another, first concern would be the controller reliability, second would be the dimensions, I'd want it to hold as much as possible but as short as possible (height wise).

An electric motor turning an auger or platter is just that, doesn't matter what flavor it is really.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

John_DeereGreen said:


> How many tons per event do you expect to spread, on what size properties?


Honestly I have no idea. Basically whatever they give me. If I had to guess I'd say maybe 4-6 tons based on what properties I see some. I will probably have to get a 1.5 yard spreader, so it might be less.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I'll also add that only salt will be used. Not many use a sand mix here. It seems like every gas vs electric thread always has more leaning towards electric than gas because of all the issues with the gas engines. I know I've wanted to pick up and throw my generators a few times because of issues with the engines.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

And how are you being paid to spread it? I forgot you're subbing.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

John_DeereGreen said:


> And how are you being paid to spread it? I forgot you're subbing.


By the job or hourly, whichever is more. I've found that unless you're really milking it, they pay enough by the job that it's always higher.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JMHConstruction said:


> By the job or hourly, whichever is more. I've found that unless you're really milking it, they pay enough by the job that it's always higher.


If you're by the job, I'd go gas. Keep the engine linkage fluid filmed and hammer down.

Hourly, id go electric.

If you're buying the salt, then electric will save you. If they're paying for the salt, you've got no incentive to save it other than driving to refill.

No opinion on specific brands other than Buyers is hit or miss (much more miss than hit) on quality and reliability.


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## shawn_ (Jan 19, 2014)

I do not own a spreader but both the boss & western poly spreaders are great from what I read but more importantly from what I have seen from buddies that run them with little to no issues at all. Goodluck!

I am also in the market for one and leaning towards 1.5 tornado.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

What engines do your gas spreaders have? What maintenance do you do on your engines so they don't have all the issues that everyone else seems to have?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I don't have any with gas engines, but the consensus I've gotten from local guys that do is the Briggs engines are the best for spreaders, and if I were to buy one, that's the engine I'd buy.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I don't have any with gas engines, but the consensus I've gotten from local guys that do is the Briggs engines are the best for spreaders, and if I were to buy one, that's the engine I'd buy.


Oh I thought you had both gas and hydraulic.

So are the issues with electic they are just under powered?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JMHConstruction said:


> Oh I thought you had both gas and hydraulic.
> 
> So are the issues with electic they are just under powered?


Electric and hydraulic.

Electric is severely under powered, both feed and spinner. And grossly uncapable of feeding remotely enough salt to drive faster than 5 mph. And the motors and controllers suck. And the wiring sucks.

We can apply 1000 pounds an acre with our hydraulic spreaders faster than the electric ones can even dump it on the ground.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

6 ton a night thru an electric spreader? You ain't gonna be doing much else.


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## 98Chevy2500 (Nov 27, 2005)

Go gas if you're spreading 6 tons a night, you'll go crazy the first night out on with an electric. As much as I hate buyersfreight, they do have a halfway decent gas stainless unit. We have one that is going on 11 years old, and never had a major issue with it. Quite a few thousand tons run through it. Obviously maintenance has a lot to do with it, few bearings replaced, one starter motor, one drag chain. 10.5 Briggs engine fires right up still after sitting all summer. Spinner bearings are probably the worst part of these units, but could be replaced with stainless. Fluid film is an obvious necessity, as well as wash after each use. If for some dumb reason you go electric, run as far as possible from the buyers/saltdogg units.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Just to play devil's advocate here, why do so many others rave about electric? Based on everyone's experience so far, gas seems to be head and shoulders over electric, so why do the gas vs electric threads lean more towards electric? All they've used maybe? Until reading these posts, I was thinking electric based on all the negative gas posts. Even now I'm still nervous dealing with the headaches of the gas engine breakdowns, but it sounds like pros outweigh the cons.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Problems with electric, is bad connections from poor design. And you have to really maintain them. The people with the most problems are the guys who park them when done. And never do anything to them


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JMHConstruction said:


> Just to play devil's advocate here, why do so many others rave about electric? Based on everyone's experience so far, gas seems to be head and shoulders over electric, so why do the gas vs electric threads lean more towards electric? All they've used maybe? Until reading these posts, I was thinking electric based on all the negative gas posts. Even now I'm still nervous dealing with the headaches of the gas engine breakdowns, but it sounds like pros outweigh the cons.


Because they've probably never experienced anything but electric, so they have nothing to compare it to. I used to think electric was great too, until I experienced hydraulics.

If you take care of the gas engine, it'll be less problematic than an electric spreader, and you'll get a lot more done in the same time.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Any brands I should be looking at? Do the gas saltmutts have the controller and other issues that the electric ones have?

Edit: this might all be for nothing. I need to do a bit more research. It looks like it will be hard to find a gas spreader for a shortbed. The ones that I've found so far look like they're only 1 yard, that would add quite a bit of drive time. Quickcubes it is.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I'd buy a saltdogg stainless gas. I've not heard of the controller issues with them. 

I know they make a model that is 1.5 yards that fits in a GM short bed. Just about all 2 yard spreaders will fit in a short bed. I know the poly salt doggs and boss VBX 8000 will.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Remember too, with a stainless spreader, it would be extremely easy to add side boards to increase your capacity. So without too much issue, you could take a 1.5 yard spreader and make it hold 2 yards.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Thanks everyone. I'll keep searching and talk to some dealers. Your help is always appreciated


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

They all will spread salt. The difference between electric and Central Hydraulics is night and day. But, so is the cost.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Randall Ave said:


> They all will spread salt. The difference between electric and Central Hydraulics is night and day. But, so is the cost.


Yes.

And for his location and amount of salt, it is not worth the money.


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## 98Chevy2500 (Nov 27, 2005)

JMHConstruction said:


> Any brands I should be looking at? Do the gas saltmutts have the controller and other issues that the electric ones have?
> 
> For a newbie, I wouldn't spent more than a stainless salt mutt. I've never seen a problem with the gas unit controllers, all the wiring and switches do in these controllers are activate relays for the clutch, throttle, and starter motor. Even if the controller craps in the middle of the storm, you can still pull start the motor, manually adjust the throttle, and jumper the clutch off the vbox battery.
> 
> ...


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## 98Chevy2500 (Nov 27, 2005)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Yes.
> 
> And for his location and amount of salt, it is not worth the money.


X2 but it would be a bigger waste to buy electric.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)




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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


>


Wondering where you've been?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

My electric smith suits me fine, Hydraulic is the way to go. The other side of that coin is the hydraulic need up fitting to the truck which is not cheap. The gas that I have are touchy, The electronic throttle can be a PITA. My truck that I had my hydraulic unit on just went to the dogs. Was not financially feasible to recondition the truck. I suppose I will see if I can find a truck for the hydraulic. Hands down with a little gas and holding the brake a little will out throw the electric or gas hands down.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Randall Ave said:


> Wondering where you've been?


Been bizzie.


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

We have used gas engine v boxes, an electric snow ex 9500 and central hydraulics v box. I personally like the central hydraulics the best as they seem to be the least problematic although our snow ex has been relatively problem free.

We have a 5 yd Flink central hydraulics frame mounted on a 2003 4700 International, a buyers gas on a 2005 Chev Duramax 1 Ton, and a 9500 Snow Ex all in excellent to good working condition for sale. The central hydraulic system on the International is less than three years old and used two seasons. To be clear the trucks as well. For sale because we are upgrading.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

See Mark, you join and I get all sorts of plowsite emails about this thread. People must just fallow you.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Boss and saltdogg dealer was really trying to push the electric saltdogg. Claims controller issues are worked out, and don't even keep gas in stock...:hammerhead: have to call other places too, but didn't like being sold on something I didn't want


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Run away from the Dogg. Boss would be a far better choice.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Run away from the Dogg. Boss would be a far better choice.


I've had/have both. I like the Boss far more. Standard rear work/flood lights, swing away spinner with dump feature to fill buckets with if needed, much nicer controller. I'm probably going to add another truck this year, and if I do put a spreader in it, it will be another Boss. JHM I have read your other posts on other threads, and it appears that you don't get much snow/salt to deal with down there. If that's the case I wouldn't shell out the coin for a hydraulic unit that would spend most of it's time sitting. And personally I don't like the idea of having to maintain another motor (on gas models) if not necessary. I also prefer auger over pintle chain. Just grease the bearing and you're good to go. The chain has to be adjusted periodically. Just my preferences though.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Jeff makes an excellent point about the swing away chute....then you can fill Quickcubes!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JustJeff said:


> I've had/have both. I like the Boss far more. Standard rear work/flood lights, swing away spinner with dump feature to fill buckets with if needed, much nicer controller. I'm probably going to add another truck this year, and if I do put a spreader in it, it will be another Boss. JHM I have read your other posts on other threads, and it appears that you don't get much snow/salt to deal with down there. If that's the case I wouldn't shell out the coin for a hydraulic unit that would spend most of it's time sitting. And personally I don't like the idea of having to maintain another motor (on gas models) if not necessary. I also prefer auger over pintle chain. Just grease the bearing and you're good to go. The chain has to be adjusted periodically. Just my preferences though.


Hydraulic is out of the question. I'm not sure if they even make one for my size of truck. We salt a lot more than the plows ever touch the ground. We get a lot more freezing rain, or light snowfalls than a "real" snowfall. With that said though, I went out maybe 15 times in the last 2 years for sidewalks. Most of those were salting. Usually pretreat, then again after the storm.

How much of a difference did you notice going from the gas to electic? Did it add too much extra time?


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

I've never had gas. When I said I've had both I was talking about Saltdogg and Boss spreaders.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JustJeff said:


> I've never had gas. When I said I've had both I was talking about Saltdogg and Boss spreaders.


Oh I got ya. Because of all the gas and saltdogg talk earlier, that's where my mind went.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'm torn, because I've never owned a gas spreader before but I have owned 2 electric. Both were junk. I also can't say whether an auger is better than a chain because the only auger feed spreader I had was also junk. I will say that once you dial the controller up to 10 on an auger, that's it. On most conveyor feed, there is an adjustable door so you can control volume that way as well. Personally, I'll always be a conveyor chain kinda guy. Yes, they have to be adjusted. No, the flow isn't 100% consistent, but it is hardly noticeable.

As for electric over gas, stick with a name brand whatever. I know others have said SaltMutt makes a good gas unit and that is probably true, but I've had it with Buyer's Products. There's a reason they are cheaper. I think wizardsr has Smith and hasn't had problems. Maybe it was Downeaster, just a couple other options. For the amount we spread, I can't justify anything but hydraulic. I can spread 6 tons in a half hour with mine. I realize that's not what you need, just explaining what they can do. Not sure there is any electric or gas spreader than can do that.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Comparing gas and electric is one thing, Comparing the two to hydraulic is another. Your not comparing a apple to a apple. You could buy a cheaper hydo unit with the pump under the hood belt driven. You will have to do a little up fitting to mount pump and belt. Not to be compared to central hydro. Just better than gas or electric.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I haven't owned any gas, but have seen them in action. Other than the ability to control material feed and spinner speed separate, they're very competitive with hydraulic units for output.

If I didn't want to or couldn't afford to do central hydros, I'd gladly deal with the little extra maintenance for the lot of extra production of a gas job. 


FredG said:


> Comparing gas and electric is one thing, Comparing the two to hydraulic is another. Your not comparing a apple to a apple. You could buy a cheaper hydo unit with the pump under the hood belt driven. You will have to do a little up fitting to mount pump and belt. Not to be compared to central hydro. Just better than gas or electric.


Clutch pump works just as good as pto pump for spreaders. I've run both and have no issue with either.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I haven't owned any gas, but have seen them in action. Other than the ability to control material feed and spinner speed separate, they're very competitive with hydraulic units for output.
> 
> If I didn't want to or couldn't afford to do central hydros, I'd gladly deal with the little extra maintenance for the lot of extra production of a gas job.
> 
> Clutch pump works just as good as pto pump for spreaders. I've run both and have no issue with either.


Good to know, Never owned pto just assumed it would spread better.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

My only worry with gas (still) is that this will be my only spreader. Now if it breaks down, the company I sub for has plenty of others to keep customers happy, but I won't make any money. Now I get electic have issues too, but seems like I see a lot more gas issues. This could also be because more people use gas. Most of the dealers I've talked to said everyone is going electric and they only sell about 1-3 gas units a year.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JMHConstruction said:


> My only worry with gas (still) is that this will be my only spreader. Now if it breaks down, the company I sub for has plenty of others to keep customers happy, but I won't make any money. Now I get electic have issues too, but seems like I see a lot more gas issues. This could also be because more people use gas. Most of the dealers I've talked to said everyone is going electric and they only sell about 1-3 gas units a year.


Maintenance...keep the engine fluid filmed and it'll last years. Other than a clutch there's really nothing to go wrong. PM member @alfman he runs multiple gas units that are years old, and he spreads a LOT of salt.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Maintenance...keep the engine fluid filmed and it'll last years. Other than a clutch there's really nothing to go wrong. PM member @alfman he runs multiple gas units that are years old, and he spreads a LOT of salt.


Listen to this little fella...That is the truth about gas spreaders..Take care of it and it will take care of you..To many guys just run them..When done shut them off and wait until the next event...I would take gas or even a steam driven spreader over an electric any day


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Defcon 5 said:


> To many guys just run them..When done shut them off and wait until the next event...


What are you supposed to do? Or are you just talking about cleaning?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

JMHConstruction said:


> What are you supposed to do? Or are you just talking about cleaning?


Clean..Grease..Oiled...Maintenance..


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Defcon 5 said:


> Clean..Grease..Oiled...Maintenance..


Words that most people fail to understand.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Defcon 5 said:


> Clean..Grease..Oiled...Maintenance..


All good points, Unfortunately if the electronic throttle freezes up or the ornery briggs don't want to start or I got to freeze my b's off putting gas in means squat. The old Flink gas I use goes out last. You want any longivity out of any of them they all need cleaning, grease and oil no matter what there powered by.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I've yet to have a properly maintained engine fail to start short of a catastrophic failure.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I've yet to have a properly maintained engine fail to start short of a catastrophic failure.


Okay, Why did you make the investment to have hydro up fitted to your truck. Here we go I see this turning into a gas pickup verses diesel or new verses used which we all know were that goes. Better than 3 time the electric being sold at the dealers verses gas.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

FredG said:


> Okay, Why did you make the investment to have hydro up fitted to your truck. Here we go I see this turning into a gas pickup verses diesel or new verses used which we all know were that goes. Better than 3 time the electric being sold at the dealers verses gas.


Because for the accounts the truck that we just set up is salting, we need variable control of feed rate and spread width separately, without leaving the cab. It's doing small (.5-1.5 acre) properties that can take 200 pounds an acre in some spots, and 1000 in others in the same event. I don't feel that gas would have given me the control needed to achieve that all the time.

If it was WFO salting a bare 5-10 acre lot, gas would have worked just fine. And more than likely I'll have another pickup with a gas spreader go in it this year as a helper for our big areas that can be spread WFO.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

If you've never had a vbox spreader, get the electric one like everyone else, you'll be happy as pie cause you don't know any different. No offense meant...

One to two ton a night, even four if no hurry - electric it is.

If you need to burn things off regularly or in a hurry, well, it ain't electric.

Mark or Herm, did you ever see those 5cy spreaders at Truck and Trailer that were electric drive? I think I knew who it was that experimented with them but they were sitting in the did not work pile...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

framer1901 said:


> Mark or Herm, did you ever see those 5cy spreaders at Truck and Trailer that were electric drive? I think I knew who it was that experimented with them but they were sitting in the did not work pile...


It was probably one of the 500 MDV's that Mark had! Ebling just shipped them somewhere where their name wasn't connected!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

framer1901 said:


> If you've never had a vbox spreader, get the electric one like everyone else, you'll be happy as pie cause you don't know any different. No offense meant...
> 
> One to two ton a night, even four if no hurry - electric it is.
> 
> ...


Yes, they were DJs and no they didn't work. I almost bought one, they were going to convert it to hydro, but I waited too long and they sold it.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Maybe I need a crash corse on small engines lol. I have to have 3 generators because I'm always having issues with those damn things. Maybe just need a better small engine shop. I do oil changes regularly and new filters too, still have to swap between them every 3-6 months. Granted those run for 8-10 hours a day 5-6 days a week, so I can't really compare to that. Problem is, that's always where my mind goes.

I appreciate everyone's help on this, and didn't mean to turn this into a electric vs gas thread. There's plenty of those. I will keep talking to dealers and doing research. Thanks again guys


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## 98Chevy2500 (Nov 27, 2005)

For the amount of salt you're going to use per event, electric will be abnoxiosly slow, and hydraulic will be ridiculously priced. You'll never see a return on the hydro, especially on a pickup. Drag chain is the only way to go if you are going to see wet frozen salt, an auger won't touch it. For around $1,000 - 1,200 you can put all the major important parts of a gas vbox on the shelf for breakdowns to fix yourself. If a bearing goes during a storm, pack if full of grease and limp through. Keep your drag chain adjusted and you can easily get 8-10 years out of it based on the number of storms you get a year. Fluid film it all and it will still look good in 10 years. Quality fuel stabilizer and synthetic oil will go along ways to ensuring trouble free operation below freezing. Pop a new sparky and filters in once a year, fresh gear oil and you're good to go for the season.

In the perfect world, I would have hydro units as well. Our weather would never justify the extra to set up, the trucks would be rust heaps before seeing return on investment.

Listen to Mark on the electric's if you intend to stay in this biz.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

98Chevy2500 said:


> Listen to Mark on the electric's if you intend to stay in this biz.


Not sure this is good advice.........


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

This is all just a matter of different opinions. Gas will get the job done as well as electric. Just by one so you have one to get the job done. Until you learn how to use one you will have to check and see where you missed in the large area's lol I can go down for coffee or a beer and have this same conversation with the boys. Go get the cube system and a skid and forget about it...lmao

98 Chevy has a good point about the truck being a pile of rust on the hydro units. I spent a ton of money on the truck with my hydro unit on it. oil pans, manifolds, floor pans you name it. I don't even think I could sell that hoppty. Probably scrap it.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Because for the accounts the truck that we just set up is salting, we need variable control of feed rate and spread width separately, without leaving the cab. It's doing small (.5-1.5 acre) properties that can take 200 pounds an acre in some spots, and 1000 in others in the same event. I don't feel that gas would have given me the control needed to achieve that all the time.
> 
> If it was WFO salting a bare 5-10 acre lot, gas would have worked just fine. And more than likely I'll have another pickup with a gas spreader go in it this year as a helper for our big areas that can be spread WFO.


Got ya, I see what your talking about.


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