# Driveways - Sharp edge or "good enough" *sniff* edge



## jstampii (Nov 13, 2018)

Indianapolis, IN here...

For 25 residential clients on my route, post-plowing I get out of the truck and hand shovel the final 1" of the edges just prior to shoveling their sidewalk to their front door. 

I do this to, first, stay off the client's grass and landscaping, second, create visual proof that the truck, nor the blade was ever in their lawn or landscaping, and, finally to maximize the plowed surface for the client(s).

I have only received compliments and payments, never any complaints.

However, as I am a one-person operation, I am repeatedly finding myself spending 1-2 minutes plowing (maximum 2 passes and maybe a back-drag from a garage) and then 5-10 minutes hand-shoveling (my average driveways are 150'-200' long and 30'-50' sidewalks from driveway to front door). I charge honestly at $40 for 3" and under, go on a 3" step-tier from there. Anything above 12" is 9.01"-12" price plus $30 per additional inch.

In the past, I paid two different "helpers" $10/driveway on two seperate seasons. With their "help" I was able to complete approx. 25 driveways in about 3 hours. Both quit after their second and third storms respectively. First one said they "didn't like the hours" and the second one said "it's too cold." Personally, at any point out of the plowing season I would dream of legally making $250 for a few hours of work! I digress...

Curious to read what other here do? 

Does anyone have any input to reduce my time at each drive? 

Or should I just continue hand-shoveling and it is what it is or give it the good ol' *sniff* "I got close enough with the blade"? 

I hope to try and complete more than 3 or 4 driveways per hour moving forward.

Thanks for all responses!

-JS2

PS- This is my 6th season with 3 (repeat) commercial accounts and 25+ (repeat) residential clients. Have a 2017 F250 and BOSS VTX that have never had payments beyond their first and have 2 pallets of Halite and 1 pallet of calcium chloride pellets in inventory ready to go and I have $500,000 of commercial coverage. So for anyone who feels like trolling... I may not have 30 years of experience in Blizzard of '78 situations, but here in Indy I'm not exactly a FNG. 

Wishing safe and profitable plowing for all this season!


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Welcome to the funny house, thick skin required.


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## jstampii (Nov 13, 2018)

1olddogtwo said:


> Welcome to the funny house, thick skin required.


Good news! I'm pretty sure my skin is thick enough in some places that it touches... on the inside.:laugh:


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

I did a lot of residential. Always had walks to do. Always used single stage blower or shovel for near garage doors and walks. We always did the edges of the drive on the way to doing front walks and garage doors. I used a pull plow for drives so the edge was pretty crisp but never tore up grass or landscaping so usually 1' or so needed to still be finished off for a professional job. To me it mattered. most guys/gals could care less. Many never get out of the vehicle. I could do it faster than you with much less effort with a Toro single stage blower vs shovel. Employees suck period.


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## wishfull (Nov 22, 2017)

jstampii you sound a little like my oldest son when he's out on the job. Fussy as all get out. Some customers notice and like it while others don't even see the extra effort you are putting in and some just plain don't care. I am fussy too but I also like to eat so sometimes I have had to back off a little bit on the small things to save a bit of time. More jobs = more money. Don't cut corners on your main service but in order to take on more work so you can survive and grow you will have to ask yourself are those little extra things you are doing worth it. If the answer is yes then well keep on doing them. If the answer is no then try doing a gradual fade out over a period of time. You will find that few will even notice or care. I am glad to see some people are still interested in doing good work though.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

My OCD is a b..ch! Just can’t do a bad job. It got me more work than it ever cost me.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Driveways are done in 90-120 seconds for the most part. Sidewalks are done if they pay extra for it. We throw in clearing in front of the garage door if they pay for walks. Otherwise we're in and out. 

I'd shoot myself before shoveling the edges of the driveways to get a "sharp" edge. 

PS We've had commercial clients for over 40 years. So being a FNG is all a matter of perspective. 

PPS Read your other post...anything over 20 hours is careless. 36 hours is stupid. 61 is flat out asinine.


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## wishfull (Nov 22, 2017)

OCD can be a beech. I have it, my oldest son has it, his oldest son has it. Put the 3 of us on the same job and look out. We used to chase tennis ball sized lumps of snow around our commercial lots cause it looked good. It did get us a lot of work, so much so that we really had to look at what we were doing and why. We still do a good job and do a lot more but we have to keep reminding ourselves that when that parking lot fills up in the morning no one really cares as long as they aren't walking or driving in knee deep snow. When the objective is to drain the swamp quit wrestling with the alligators.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

wishfull said:


> We used to chase tennis ball sized lumps of snow around our commercial lots cause it looked good.


That's OCD?

Uh oh...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Driveways are done in 90-120 seconds for the most part. Sidewalks are done if they pay extra for it. We throw in clearing in front of the garage door if they pay for walks. Otherwise we're in and out.
> 
> I'd shoot myself before shoveling the edges of the driveways to get a "sharp" edge.
> 
> ...


90-120 Seconds??....I could do it quicker..

To the OP...Nothing wrong with wanting to go above and beyond to ensure a quality job...Do you feel your being compensated for this extra work??...Yes, it's extra work....Time is money in this business and I would never do it unless I was getting paid to do so..If your Happy with what your making and have a viable business...Who am I to tell you Otherwise


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

You may want to ask yourself this:
Are you late getting to other properties cause you're dinking around on those edges?
Nothing wrong with being thorough, but if you're wasting time that could be spent elsewhere, maybe rethink it.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

No that will get yer boots wet!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Chineau said:


> No that will get yer boots wet!


I like the way you think.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

You have to decide what service YOU want to provide. Personally, I do NOT shovel. I learned a LOOOOOONG time ago that I can earn more $$ with the truck plow than I can with the hand shovel. I can plow a driveway in 5 minutes and make XX.XX it will take me 10 minutes to shovel a walkway. I cant charge 2 times the plow rate to shovel the sidewalk.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

theplowmeister said:


> You have to decide what service YOU want to provide. Personally, I do NOT shovel. I learned a LOOOOOONG time ago that I can earn more $$ with the truck plow than I can with the hand shovel. I can plow a driveway in 5 minutes and make XX.XX it will take me 10 minutes to shovel a walkway. I cant charge 2 times the plow rate to shovel the sidewalk.


Guess it depends on location. You wouldn't have any customers around here.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

A true statement what work in one place not another, what is the same when it snows its show time there is cash on the ground go shove it back.


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