# Plowing insurance- does the truck have to be registered as commercial?



## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

Well, I'm still in search of reasonably priced plowing insurance- if anyone knows of good companies/brokers for plowing insurnace, please let me know!

Now, my question is, for me to have plowing insurance, does my truck have to be registered as commercial? Right now it just had regular NJ plates.

Thanks,
Matt


----------



## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

mkwl;415039 said:


> Well, I'm still in search of reasonably priced plowing insurance- if anyone knows of good companies/brokers for plowing insurnace, please let me know!
> 
> Now, my question is, for me to have plowing insurance, does my truck have to be registered as commercial? Right now it just had regular NJ plates.
> 
> ...


How it works in MN, is that you just have to have commercial insurance.

The company that I'm with, as long as plowing is less that 25% of your gross income, you don't need a rider that covers plowing.


----------



## DBL (Aug 27, 2005)

i dont know how you jersey guys do it becaus eyou have commercial tags but here in pa no the trucks are all im my name and the ins is is my name combined with the biz name


----------



## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

LwnmwrMan22;415052 said:


> How it works in MN, is that you just have to have commercial insurance.
> 
> The company that I'm with, as long as plowing is less that 25% of your gross income, you don't need a rider that covers plowing.


Wouldn't happen to be State Farm insurance (that's what I have) would it?


----------



## Mick (May 19, 2001)

mkwl;415056 said:


> Wouldn't happen to be State Farm insurance (that's what I have) would it?


Oh, God. I hope not, but sounds like something they put out.

It sounds good, until you actually need it.


----------



## Mick (May 19, 2001)

In New Jersey, it looks like registration as Commercial is not related to the insurance, but what you use the vehicle for:

You would likely fall under "Code 11": http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Commercial/Commercialvehicle.htm#11


----------



## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

mkwl;415056 said:


> Wouldn't happen to be State Farm insurance (that's what I have) would it?


Absolutely not...

I run through Allied Insurance, a branch of Nationwide Insurance.

They've paid all my claims so far in the 6 years I've run with them.

I've got (2) new trucks listed as commercial, with 500k / 1M limits, about 100k in equipment, a 2M in liability rider, all for about $5500 / year,

So far they've fixed a $2500 claim on a truck, a $1600 window, a $4500 gas station sign and right now fighting a slip and fall at a location that is entirely not my fault, clearly spelled out in the service agreement. I had a special notation in the agreement about an area on a property and the property owners signed off on it.

I would never EVER have State Farm or Allstate.


----------



## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

Mick;415080 said:


> In New Jersey, it looks like registration as Commercial is not related to the insurance, but what you use the vehicle for:
> 
> You would likely fall under "Code 11": http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Commercial/Commercialvehicle.htm#11


GOOD POST MICK!

And i am with you on statefarm,

You might try to go to a underwrighter (agent) someone that quotes several differ companies


----------



## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

powerjoke;415094 said:


> GOOD POST MICK!
> 
> And i am with you on statefarm,
> 
> *You might try to go to a underwrighter (agent) someone that quotes several differ companies*


That's what I do... every year I call him up and ask "Is my company still cheap??" He usually says yes, however there are times when certain insurance companies are targeting different types of clients, so you'll get a break on certain coverage.

We were with a certain company for our personal use vehicles, Progressive was always about $500 / year more. Then 2 years ago, Progressive came in at $450 / year less, so we switched.

You should always check, but not switch yearly.


----------



## mrbrickman (Nov 13, 2006)

i thought its called state fraud


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

i dont have commercial auto right now. i have a few quotes for commercial. dont have commerical plates. 
called my current company yesterday and asked them what would happen if i banged in someones garage door and didnt have commercial insurance. she said the homeowner wouldnt be liable but they werent sure if they would be liable or not either. depended on if i filed taxes as a business and how many accounts i had etc.etc. and that she would have a claims specialist get back to me. they never called back. 
found this little law on the books of my state. 

Title 24-A: MAINE INSURANCE CODE
Chapter 39: CASUALTY INSURANCE CONTRACTS
Subchapter 1: GENERAL PROVISIONS

§2903. Liability absolute when loss occurs 

The liability of every insurer which insures any person against accidental loss or damage on account of personal injury or death or on account of accidental damage to property shall become absolute whenever such loss or damage, for which the insured is responsible, occurs. The rendition of a final judgment against the insured for such loss or damage shall not be a condition precedent to the right or obligation of the insurer to make payment on account of such loss or damage.

comments? (im sure ill get a couple)


----------



## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

Firstly it depends on the law of the jurisdiction but,

If you are fibbing to your insurance company they have the right to cancel the policy.

They have a right of 'subrogation' 
Roughly that means that, yes, they will pay the money to the person injured or the property damaged BUT having done that they will go after the person responsible.

NOW if you have fibbed to them and not told them that you are plowing with that pick-up truck you bought for personal use, you no longer have a contract with them ('cause you lied to them) and they will be coming back after you for the pay-out. (In another life I used to be a subrogation officer at an insurance company and would hunt down low-life that would screw around on their policies and collect back from them the money paid to the innocent injuried person.)

In regards to the Maine statute it means that you don't have to sue somebody in court just to get the money back. eg Mrs Smith won't be pleased that she had to go to small claims court, waste a day just to collect for the $65 window you broke with your baseball, just admit that you broke the window and get on with it.


----------



## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Thank you, heather lawn spray. There are many posts on this subject. So, would you say if someone has Commercial insurance and personal registration (not commercial plates), they have effectively "lied" to the insurance company and, by not having commercial plates, would be a good reason for the insurance company to deny the claim?


----------



## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

Again depending on the exact rules of the jurisdiction and the procedures of the company, generally they don't care if the vehicle is commercial or not ie if one uses a car for business (travelling salesman) it doesn't need commercial plates BUT it should have a commercial policy.

All they are interested in is collecting the right amount of premium for the risk there are taking

Think about it. Spending half an hour driving back and forth to work is probably alot less risky than 12 hour in a snow storm battering things with the plow

Commercial plates or not are the jurisdiction of the state or province

If you will note on the application the insurer doesn't ask for the plates just the VIN


----------



## Flipper (Nov 1, 2001)

My insurer doesn't care how the truck is registered only what it is and what it is used for.


----------



## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Mick;415291 said:


> Thank you, heather lawn spray. There are many posts on this subject. So, would you say if someone has Commercial insurance and personal registration (not commercial plates), they have effectively "lied" to the insurance company and, by not having commercial plates, would be a good reason for the insurance company to deny the claim?


Minnesota doesn't have commercial plates.

Only that the vehicle has commecial insurance is what matters.

I pay roughly $2,000 / year to insure my trucks. My wife's minivan is now down to $400 / year.

If I put my truck on a personal policy, then I would save myself about $1500 / year, but the first time I hit someone with a plow on, pulling a trailer, that would be the end.


----------



## TwistedMetal (Oct 11, 2007)

mkwl, you live in NJ, rates have to be as bad as where i live in NY.it hasn't even snowed enough in this area to afford insurance.i checked with some local agents, as soon as you mention plowing , they say sorry we don't insure that..or the policy is so high that plowing isn't worth the time and effort.bigger plowing operation i assume can afford it because they have many accounts mostly commercial.


----------



## JeepPlow18 (Sep 4, 2006)

I live near you and I just started plowing last year. First many insurance companies will give you a hard time saying you have to be 25 to open a commercial account and plow. Yea I know thats rediculous, thats what I said to them. Your about my age correct? Im 19. I found that Progressive commercial is very good, as long as your 18 they said no problem. Thats why I went with them. As for the commercial plates and registration that just goes with hand and hand with the commercial insurance. Just go to the mvc and show them your commercial insurance, they will give you commercial plates, no questions asked. And the registration will not be commercial until the following year when its renewed( they charge double of a regular registration something like $115). That pissed me off haha, well what you going to do. O and tell me about that amber light permit, when you get it im curious. Hope this helps a lot. 

Mike


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

We need commercial liability ins for the type work we do. 
I/we are wrong to call it commercial vehicle ins.
Your /our plow trucks do not meet the requirements.
If your vehicle does have commercial plates you will need a CDL, and a log book limiting you to 11hrs behind the wheel.

MN traffic law definitions,
169.01
Subd. 75. Commercial motor vehicle. (a) "Commercial motor vehicle" means a motor 
vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used to transport passengers or property if the motor 
vehicle:
(1) has a gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds;
(2) has a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight of more than 10,000 pounds and the 
combination of vehicles has a combined gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds;
(3) is a bus;
(4) is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials that are required to 
be placarded under Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, parts 100-185; or
(5) is outwardly equipped and identified as a school bus, except for type A-I and type III 
school buses as defined in subdivision 6.
(b) For purposes of chapter 169A:
(1) a commercial motor vehicle does not include a farm truck, an authorized emergency 
vehicle, or a recreational vehicle being operated by a person within the scope of section 171.02, 
subdivision 2 , paragraph (b); and
(2) a commercial motor vehicle includes a vehicle capable of or designed to meet the 
standards described in paragraph (a), clause (2), whether or not the towed unit is attached to the 
truck-tractor at the time of the violation or stop

Commercial plates are not needed for our plow trucks .


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

heather lawn spray;415282 said:


> Firstly it depends on the law of the jurisdiction but,
> 
> If you are fibbing to your insurance company they have the right to cancel the policy.
> 
> ...


i dont fib to my insurance company at all. i tell them i plow snow. i tell them i did plow commercial/industrial lots and now i work other jobs so im only plowing some driveways. nothing big that is my main source of income. they tell me it wouldnt be worth me buying a commercial policy unless im running many accounts and is a main source of income. i ask them if i hit something will they cover it. they say they arent worried about me plowing my family/friends that they are concerned over other people. they dont respond over if they will cover it or not. they also only have vehicles listed without plows on my id cards. ive talked to them on four occasions. doesnt seem to be going very far. the agent i talked to last time said she knows lots of people that plow without commercial insurance and between her and me she wouldnt worry about it. she also said she didnt handle commercial policy so if i decided to go back under commercial she couldnt help me. i could keep the same company but she wouldnt be the one servicing my account. i hope she logs down every time i tell them i plow snow and when i bought the last truck that i told them it had a snowplow. course if i had a accident the logs of my snowplowing would probably get erased from the computer.
lie to the insurance company? your kidding right? they are the masters of the game. lol


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

bribrius;415384 said:


> i ask them if i hit something will they cover it. they say they arent worried about me plowing my family/friends that they are concerned over other people. they dont respond over if they will cover it or not. they also only have vehicles listed without plows on my id cards. ive talked to them on four occasions. doesnt seem to be going very far. the agent i talked to last time said she knows lots of people that plow without commercial insurance and between her and me she wouldnt worry about it. she also said she didnt handle commercial policy so if i decided to go back under commercial she couldnt help me. .
> lie to the insurance company? your kidding right? they are the masters of the game. lol


You need a new agent as she is lying to you.
You can only plow your own property not your "friends" also....
Your agent is no master of her profession.

Give this guy a call, tell him SnoFarmer sent you...
Matt Gustafson
Lake Superior Agency
217 N 59th Ave W
Duluth, MN 55807
(218) 624-7730 x201
fax (218) 624-1964

You need ins to plow even if you plow for free.


----------



## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

SnoFarmer;415379 said:


> We need commercial liability ins for the type work we do.
> I/we are wrong to call it commercial vehicle ins.
> Your /our plow trucks do not meet the requirements.
> If your vehicle does have commercial plates you will need a CDL, and a log book limiting you to 11hrs behind the wheel.
> ...


Fine fine fine.... I can get technical too, you're right, it's not called "Commercial Vehicle" insurance.

It's a policy that covers my vehicle for commercial uses. also it covers more than just myself if someone else is driving the vehicle.

Is that better???


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

LwnmwrMan22;415397 said:


> Fine fine fine.... I can get technical too, you're right, it's not called "Commercial Vehicle" insurance.
> 
> It's a policy that covers my vehicle for commercial uses. also it covers more than just myself if someone else is driving the vehicle.
> 
> Is that better???


Wellxysport xysport 

It will only cover the other people if they are "listed" on the policy as a driver.


----------



## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

SnoFarmer;415400 said:


> Wellxysport xysport
> 
> It will only cover the other people if they are "listed" on the policy as a driver.


Not so... they covered the gas station sign when my dad backed into it plowing.

They were told he was plowing. He's not listed on the policy at all.

Only me, and I have 3 trucks listed, (2) 2006 and a 1999 Dodge. If it was a problem, the ins. company would be all over me.

I've been audited twice in 6 years with this company, where they send you a form, you have to fill out all the info of equipment, etc., much like a list the bank wants to keep on file.


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

SnoFarmer;415388 said:


> You need a new agent as she is lying to you.
> You can only plow your own property not your "friends" also....
> Your agent is no master of her profession.
> 
> ...


nope. all set. i just gave my other halfs (girlfriends) sister a call and asked her. shes a agent also.
she said:

a. they have to cover whatever damage/injury is done when the plow is on the truck just as if it wasnt. once its attached to the truck its covered. (at least in maine). even when on a personal policy. if im plowing her driveway (the agent)this winter and hit her car. my insurance has to cover it and it is not optional.
b. the insurance company cant come back on me for any claims paid as long as the vehicle isnt registered commercial or to a business entity, a business advertisement is not on the side of the vehicles, i do not advertise in the phone book for snowplowing, i do not advertise in newspapers or anything else and it is not considered a separate business entity beyond myself.
c. many people in the state have snowplows. a snowplow on a vehicle is a assumed liability meaning its assumed that the owner will plow snow and the insurance company is required to accept that liability if they are to take on a policy in which the policy holder notifiys them that the vehicle has a snowplow.

she also said the reason my insurance i have now wont come out and say they will cover it (which they have no choice to by law they have too) is because they dont want to encourage claims on a personal policy for snowplowing. but they will cover it. and i shouldnt worry about it. the most that may happen is they could not renew the policy. shes put through claims before on snowplowing damage/accidents on a personal policy.

so no. im not getting the commercial insurance back. keep in mind though that im not really running twenty trucks like some of the guys on this board, im not doing commercial, and this is really more entertainment for me than anything else.


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

bribrius;415408 said:


> nope. all set. i just gave my other halfs (girlfriends) sister a call and asked her. shes a agent also.
> she said:
> 
> a. they have to cover whatever damage/injury is done when the plow is on the truck just as if it wasnt. once its attached to the truck its covered. (at least in maine). even when on a personal policy. if im plowing her driveway (the agent)this winter and hit her car. my insurance has to cover it and it is not optional.
> ...


1 or 100 trucks it does not matter.

IF you plow residential drives or Parking lots or roads
it is COMMERCIAL work..............
If you are for hire or you plow on someone else property even for FREE you need INS as your GL, INS will not cover you ..........

"my other halfs (girlfriends) sister" or not.

"and this is really more entertainment for me than anything else."

Then your "opinion" means nothing.

You are a hazard. 
You should not be plowing.


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

LwnmwrMan22;415407 said:


> Not so... they covered the gas station sign when my dad backed into it plowing.
> 
> They were told he was plowing. He's not listed on the policy at all.
> 
> ...


Sounds strange.
Every business that I've driven for wants / needs my drivers lic #
To give to there INS.
They will check your record to see if you are insurable.
Then they adjust your rates.

More drivers means more exposure.


----------



## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

SnoFarmer;415422 said:


> Sounds strange.
> Every business that I've driven for wants / needs my drivers lic #
> To give to there INS.
> They will check your record to see if you are insurable.
> ...


Correct, that's the way I've always thought too.


----------



## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

SnoFarmer;415416 said:


> 1 or 100 trucks it does not matter.
> 
> IF you plow residential drives or Parking lots or roads
> it is COMMERCIAL work..............
> ...


Thank-you SNOFARMER

No underwriter in their right mind will accept a PERSONAL policy with a plow unless there is some kind of guarantee given that it will only be used as a PERSONAL plow.

Like everybody else they're in this to make money too.

Don't forget they don't have to insure you but you need insurance


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

heather lawn spray;415448 said:


> Thank-you SNOFARMER
> 
> No underwriter in their right mind will accept a PERSONAL policy with a plow unless there is some kind of guarantee given that it will only be used as a PERSONAL plow.
> 
> ...


thats kind of funny i think we have about twenty thousand trucks with plows on personal running around this state. arent you from canada? enough said.


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Bribrius,
You seam to be confused about INS.

1. If you plow anywhere other than your own property you are exposing your self to to an unknown liability.

2. General liability Ins IS NOT going to pay for damages to your vehicle or anything you hit or any damages period. IN ANY state IF you are engaged in commence.
( Driving to your job site is considered to be engaged in commence.)

You are conducting business you should have a business. IE an LLC, CO. LLP..........
When you start your vehicle or intend to do work you are.....
Working.

3. Commercial Insurance is for your business.
The vehicle you use is a tool and this INS is for the damages this Snow Plow does.


4. No insurance and you get sued and you do not have the proper Ins you will need to give your house, truck and any other asset to your lawyer if you do not have cash.

Gee Bribrius I'm done trying to get this thought your head and I haven't even scratched the surface.
There have been so maney posts covering INS this fall 

I'll end with a loose paraphrase lol. from one of Mick's posts.
Mick lives in Maine also.
WE can all agree Mick knows his stuff. 

It was some thing to the effect that his GL wants him to remove his plow before he leaves his property, even if he it's just getting gas.

Mick can you clarify?


How was that for entertainment


----------



## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

JeepPlow18;415352 said:


> I live near you and I just started plowing last year. First many insurance companies will give you a hard time saying you have to be 25 to open a commercial account and plow. Yea I know thats rediculous, thats what I said to them. Your about my age correct? Im 19. I found that Progressive commercial is very good, as long as your 18 they said no problem. Thats why I went with them. As for the commercial plates and registration that just goes with hand and hand with the commercial insurance. Just go to the mvc and show them your commercial insurance, they will give you commercial plates, no questions asked. And the registration will not be commercial until the following year when its renewed( they charge double of a regular registration something like $115). That pissed me off haha, well what you going to do. O and tell me about that amber light permit, when you get it im curious. Hope this helps a lot.
> 
> Mike


Mike-

Thanks for the info, I'll have to look into progressive- what kind of rates for plow ins were you getting? I'm 17 now, truck is indured under my Dad's policy (I can't register in my name until 18), so the plowing insurance would be under his name also. Do you have commercial plates on your truck/jeep?

Matt


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

mkwl;415514 said:


> Mike-
> 
> Thanks for the info, I'll have to look into progressive- what kind of rates for plow ins were you getting? I'm 17 now, truck is indured under my Dad's policy (I can't register in my name until 18), so the plowing insurance would be under his name also. Do you have commercial plates on your truck/jeep?
> 
> Matt


progressive quoted me over two k for a cv. and the last lawyer i discussed a llc with wanted fifteen hundred.
either i pay way to much for my services or i need a discount card that everyone else seems to have but me.


----------



## JeepPlow18 (Sep 4, 2006)

mkwl;415514 said:


> Mike-
> 
> Thanks for the info, I'll have to look into progressive- what kind of rates for plow ins were you getting? I'm 17 now, truck is indured under my Dad's policy (I can't register in my name until 18), so the plowing insurance would be under his name also. Do you have commercial plates on your truck/jeep?
> 
> Matt


Matt,

For a year im getting 150 a month and thats just the basic, nothing extra. That would be the minimum that you need to plow in New Jersey. Thats what I was told. And I sold my jeep and got a 95 chevy silverado with a 8' western haha. I got a huge load of commercial lots and need heavy duty epuipment. And im going to put those commercial plates on the pickup in a week or so. Also that would be in my mothers name this year because of the bad winter last year I need to get the cheapest lol. So it should be around what your father is going to pay. Also im going to PM you I have an offer for ya.

Mike


----------



## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Hi SnoFarmer. I've really just skimmed a lot of this. Basically, some people are trying to "get away" with not having commercial vehicle insurance. I'm seeing some reliance on agents saying "Don't worry about it, you don't really need it" and so on. Stuff we've seen a thousand times. 

If you use your vehicle for generating compensation, whether money or beer, it is a commercial vehicle. You can plow your own property using your homeowner's insurance or possibly personal use insurance. An insurance agent does not back up the policy; the Underwriter does. If you want to clarify something, it MUST be in writing to be enforceable (whether in the policy or a seperate statement). With some policies/companies, relatives living in the same household can drive the vehicle. Some not. If so, they will usually be listed as household members somewhere.

Actually, the policy stated that the plow could be on the truck between my property directly to the nearest gas station and back.


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Mick;415691 said:


> Hi SnoFarmer. I've really just skimmed a lot of this. Basically, some people are trying to "get away" with not having commercial vehicle insurance. I'm seeing some reliance on agents saying "Don't worry about it, you don't really need it" and so on. Stuff we've seen a thousand times.
> 
> If you use your vehicle for generating compensation, whether money or beer, it is a commercial vehicle. You can plow your own property using your homeowner's insurance or possibly personal use insurance. An insurance agent does not back up the policy; the Underwriter does. If you want to clarify something, it MUST be in writing to be enforceable (whether in the policy or a seperate statement). With some policies/companies, relatives living in the same household can drive the vehicle. Some not. If so, they will usually be listed as household members somewhere.
> 
> Actually, the policy stated that the plow could be on the truck between my property directly to the nearest gas station and back.


im really looking for like a statute or state insurance law here mick. or maybe a case that went to court over snowplow damage claimed on a personal use policy. i dont trust underwriters. they work for the insurance company. they can write anything they want. doesnt mean jack if its contested. i respect your opinion. perhaps you could follow up with something that isnt coming from the insurance company saying what they will cover but more along the lines of what they HAVE TO cover. i know agents dont have much of a say but the one i talked to i know as a family friend and she swears up and down shes put through claims on personal policies.
just a thought. thanks.


----------



## 6feetdeep (Sep 8, 2006)

For what its worth, for all the world to see, I have been insured with Allstate on every vehicle I have ever owned since I was 16 (I'm 33 now)... My house is insured through them, and my wifes vehicles have all been through them, we've never made any claims. Last year I switched my trucks over to commercial, and had one small fender bender (deemed not my fault, kid pulled out of a parking spot in front of me in a private parking lot while I was plowing).. This year they wanted to raise my insurance 44%. :realmad: :angry: 
I shopped around, and now I have raised my coverage to 1 million, lowered my deductible to $250, and it costs me $1200.00 per year less than what I paid last year (before they wanted to raise it). 
Now I'm shopping around to switch my wifes truck and my house. They lose, I win. F them. 
That is what you get for being loyal, paying your bills on time, and not putting in any claims for 17 years. Screwed. payup 
Allstate Insurance co. will never see another penny of my money!


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

*i think they are lying to you mick*

In RE:

Glenn Ingalls
vs.
Concord General Mutual Insurance Company
|
|
| FINDINGS AND DECISION 
Hearing 2003-12798
August 18, 2003

This proceeding arose upon a request for hearing made by Glenn Ingalls to contest the pending cancellation of automobile insurance coverage provided by Concord General Mutual Insurance Company. On March 18, 2003, the insurer mailed a notice of cancellation effective April 18, 2003 on policy number B888965, citing "material misrepresentation, presentation of the claim dated 12/26/02" as the grounds for cancellation. Pursuant to 24-A M.R.S.A. § 2908, Concord General Mutual Insurance Company provided the insured with proper notice and the insured's hearing request was timely.

A hearing in this matter was held on May 1, 2003 with Connie Mayette sitting as designated hearing officer, pursuant to 24-A M.R.S.A. §§ 210 and 2908. The purpose of the hearing was limited to establishing the existence of the proof or evidence given by the insurer to support its reason for policy cancellation. Staff representing Concord General Mutual Insurance Company submitted a sworn statement in lieu of appearance at the hearing, and also participated by telephone. Glenn Ingalls appeared at the hearing, and was represented by Attorney Patrick Mellor. Robert LaBonte, the employee of the insured who was present at the time of the accident, also attended and testified.

FINDINGS OF FACT

The following facts have been proven by a preponderance of evidence submitted:

Concord has insured the subject vehicle since July 2002. Although covered by a personal automobile policy, the vehicle is registered with a commercial plate, and is used commercially for snowplowing. 
On December 26, 2002, an accident occurred in which two other vehicles hit head-on, in front of a driveway Mr. Ingalls had just finished plowing. The other two drivers reported in their 48-hour accident reports that Mr. Ingalls' vehicle backed out of the driveway and blocked the path of one of the vehicles. Mr. Ingalls and his employee reported he was parked on the side of the road parallel to traffic, out of the travel lane and not moving. 
The police report describes the plow truck as backing out of the driveway, and blocking the lane of the oncoming vehicle which was coming around a sharp curve in the road. 
ANALYSIS AND CONCLUSION OF LAW

Although the Notice of Hearing indicated that the Maine Automobile Cancellation Control Act was applicable, the scope of that section applies to policies insuring vehicles of the following types only:

"A. Motor vehicles of the private passenger or station wagon type which are not used as public conveyances nor rented to others;
"B. Any other 4-wheel motor vehicles with a load capacity of 1,500 pounds or less which are not used in the business or professions of the insured."

As the vehicle insured on this policy is registered and used commercially, i.e. in the business or profession of the insured, the governing statute is 24-A M.R.S.A. § 2908.

24-A M.R.S.A. § 2908(2)(B) permits cancellation pursuant to material misrepresentation, specifically "fraud or material misrepresentation made by or with the knowledge of the named insured in obtaining the policy, continuing the policy or in presenting a claim under the policy."

James Gardner, Personal Lines Underwriter for Concord, stated in his affidavit that the accident report obtained from the Falmouth Police Department clearly contradicts the policyholder's description of the accident as he reported it to the agent. Mr. Gardner submitted a copy of the loss notice dated January 7, 2003, which stated the insured's vehicle was parked parallel to the road, and the insured was writing in his notebook about the last plow account while his spotter was describing it to him. He also submitted a copy of the police report, as well as the 48-hour reports filled out by the claimant drivers, all of which stated the insured vehicle was backing out of the driveway and blocking the travel lane of the approaching vehicle. There was no sworn testimony from the police officer or the other two drivers.

Sandra McPeek, a Concord claims adjuster, also submitted an affidavit. She recounted her investigation of the loss in concert with Special Investigator Peter McCarthy of Concord. Ms. McPeek also responded via telephone to cross-examination by Attorney Mellor. She stated she accompanied Mr. McCarthy to the scene and concurred with his observations that it would be difficult to park where the insured claimed he was parked, due to snow banks, a curb and a telephone pole. She also had spoken with the police officer and both of the other drivers.

Ms. McPeek and Mr. Ingalls both identified one of the claimants as a Federal judge. This claimant was operating the vehicle that was hit head-on by the vehicle that swerved to avoid the allegedly backing plow truck. Although Ms. McPeek referred to recorded statements taken from the other drivers, transcripts of those statements were not submitted as evidence. Ms. McPeek testified that both drivers also indicated in their statements to her that the spotter was operating the vehicle at the time of the accident. As the only documentary evidence from those drivers makes no mention of the driver, that aspect of the alleged misrepresentation will not be considered. The police report was filled out two days after the accident, after the officer had interviewed both Mr. Ingalls and his employee, as well as the other two drivers. The police report lists Mr. Ingalls as the driver.

According to Ms. McPeek's statement, both the responding officer and one of the other drivers had been by the spot prior to the accident and had seen Mr. Ingalls operating the plow truck, with his spotter in the road watching for traffic.

Mr. Ingalls testified that his standard procedure after plowing an account is to record how the job went and note things to be aware of the next time, such as the location of the rock wall, etc. He stated he had been parked reviewing the job for about five or six minutes when he heard the accident. He stated the top of this driveway had sufficient space to turn around in front of the three-car garage and the extension for the basketball hoop, and that no one would choose to back out of that driveway because of visibility problems with the road curve. He further testified that he had plowed parallel to the rock wall at the side of the road, pushing the snowbank back away from the end of the driveway. He said he was parked in that area, off the road, when the vehicle driven by a youthful operator came around the corner and slid on the snow-covered road.

Mr. Mellor, Mr. Ingalls attorney, pointed out that Concord investigated the scene in late February, and that the snowbank conditions on that date were not the same as on the date of the accident. Mr. Ingalls testified that there had been another big storm in January, and that he did not plow this account again. He stated that another plower may have done the banks differently than he did. Mr. Mellor submitted a video of the driveway and road to show the accident location and how Mr. Ingalls had parked. As the video was taken on April 30 when there was no snow, it also did not depict the conditions as they were at the time of the accident.

Considerable testimony and argument focused on conflicting descriptions of the accident. The issue before the Bureau comes down to whether Concord has demonstrated by a preponderance of the evidence that the insured in fact misrepresented the circumstances of the accident, and if so, whether that constitutes material misrepresentation within the context of the statute.

Four people were present at the time the accident occurred. Two of them, Mr. Ingalls and Mr. Labonte, appeared before us and testified that Mr. Ingalls' vehicle was parked off the road. The 48-hour reports filed with the Department of Motor Vehicles by Mr. Carter and Ms. Connally state that Mr. Ingalls' truck was backing out across the travel lane. Ms. MacPeek testified as to what she was told by the police officer and the other two drivers, and explained the officer's reasoning as she understood it for making his conclusion on the police report, but these people did not provide testimony, nor were they available for questioning. The sworn testimony given by Mr. Ingalls and Mr. LaBonte contradicted the hearsay statements presented and relied upon by Concord.

According to the Maine Motor Vehicle Code, accident reports made by an investigating officer and 48-hour reports made by operators are for the purpose of statistical analysis and accident prevention, and may not be admitted in evidence in any trial arising out of the accident. (29-A M.R.S.A. § 2251(7). While this administrative hearing is not a trial, and 5 M.R.S.A. §9057(1) states that agencies need not observe the rules of evidence observed by the courts, the case presented by Concord is largely based on hearsay, the reliability of which the hearing officer is entitled to evaluate.

Concord's strongest evidence was its adjuster's observation of the accident scene, of which she stated it would have been difficult to impossible for the vehicle to have been parked on the side of the road due to snow, a curb and a telephone pole. No photo of the area was provided, however, and Mr. Ingalls argued that there had been another big snow storm the first week in January, and that he never plowed this driveway again. The company inspected the location on February 20, 2003, eight weeks after the accident. As there were subsequent storms, and a different plow contractor who may have plowed the banks differently, there is no way of determining if the conditions existing February 20 were the same as they were on December 26 when the accident occurred.

The Bureau does routinely accept police accident reports as evidence, but in this case we are being asked to accept the officer's conclusion as to how the accident occurred, rather than just as evidence that an accident did occur. The officer did not witness the accident himself, nor did he provide testimony himself as to how he reached his conclusion. While Concord is entitled by the policy contract to settle any claim or suit as they deem appropriate, the evidence on the record does not support a finding that material misrepresentation has occurred.

The Superintendent of Insurance has jurisdiction over this matter pursuant to 24-A M.R.S.A. § 2920. Concord General Mutual Insurance Company bears the burden of proof for establishing that the statutory grounds for policy cancellation exist. Based on the evidence presented at the hearing, the Superintendent hereby concludes that Concord General Mutual Insurance Company has not established adequate grounds for policy cancellation.

INDEX OF RECORD: Company: Insured: 
Exhibit 1 - Loss Notice 
Exhibit 2A - Affidavit of Sandra McPeek Exhibit 1 - Log page 
Exhibit 2B - Motor vehicle record of Robert LaBonte Exhibit 2 - Video of accident area 
Exhibit 2C - Motor vehicle record of Glenn Ingalls 
Exhibit 2D - Registration Record 
Exhibit 2E - Claims Note 
Exhibit 2F - 48-hr Report - Ms. Connally 
Exhibit 2G - 48-hr Report - Judge Carter 
Exhibit 3 - Police Report 
Exhibit 4 - Cancellation Notice & Postal Proof 
Exhibit 5 - Copy of Policy 
Exhibit 6 - Affidavit of Jim Gardner

ORDER AND NOTICE OF APPEAL RIGHT

The intended termination is hereby disapproved. Concord General Mutual Insurance Company is directed to continue coverage under policy #B888965 without lapse. Coverage shall continue unless and until a subsequent valid notice of cancellation or nonrenewal is effected in accordance with applicable law.

This Decision and Order is a final agency action within the meaning of the Maine Administrative Procedure Act. It is appealable to the Superior Court in the manner provided in 24-A M.R.S.A. § 236 and M.R. Civ. P. 80C. Any party to the hearing may initiate an appeal within 30 days after receipt of this notice. Any nonparty whose interests are substantially and directly affected may initiate an appeal within 40 days of the effective date of this Decision and Order.


----------



## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

6feetdeep;415721 said:


> For what its worth, for all the world to see, I have been insured with Allstate on every vehicle I have ever owned since I was 16 (I'm 33 now)... My house is insured through them, and my wifes vehicles have all been through them, we've never made any claims. Last year I switched my trucks over to commercial, and had one small fender bender (deemed not my fault, kid pulled out of a parking spot in front of me in a private parking lot while I was plowing).. This year they wanted to raise my insurance 44%. :realmad: :angry:
> I shopped around, and now I have raised my coverage to 1 million, lowered my deductible to $250, and it costs me $1200.00 per year less than what I paid last year (before they wanted to raise it).
> Now I'm shopping around to switch my wifes truck and my house. They lose, I win. F them.
> That is what you get for being loyal, paying your bills on time, and not putting in any claims for 17 years. Screwed. payup
> Allstate Insurance co. will never see another penny of my money!


Same thing happened with me with Allstate. Our neighbor's house was broken into 2 times in one year, Allstate dropped them after 10 years.

My dad had State Farm, guy rearends my dad, and my dad had to foot 1/2 the bill, that's why they won't get my money.


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Ahaa What?

So his gl ins was not canceled?

Did the GL policy pay out?

nope, the case was about cancellation

Was he sued for a slip/fall?
Did he hit the natural gas line with his plow?


What is your point?
Try staying at a Holiday Inn, 
heck even a Days Inn could not hurt.

Site me a case from any state that a gl policy paid to fix anything hit by a plow?


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

SnoFarmer;415818 said:


> Ahaa What?
> 
> So his gl ins was not canceled?
> 
> ...


i imagine his personal auto paid out. i dont know for sure. if they didnt i imagine he could have made them with a threatening letter from a attorney. hard to say you have a right to refuse the claim when the state says you dont have a right to cancel the insurance over the claim. refuse based on him snowplowing on a personal policy? state didnt see anything wrong with it.

im still working on it though. give me time.  i do have other things to do ya know and im only six hours off from going to the day job.


----------



## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

bribrius;415468 said:


> thats kind of funny i think we have about twenty thousand trucks with plows on personal running around this state. arent you from canada? enough said.


What ?

you can't win the argument so you insult the arguer?!?


----------



## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

your citation is not on point

the reason for the denial of the cancellation or lapsing of the policy was due to the lack of finding that their insured had MISREPRESENTED THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF ACCIDENT not of the coverage.

keep looking


----------



## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Ok, I had a reply, but I don't want to beat a dead horse. I have done some research pertaining to the title of this thread which is with REGISTRATION. These vary by state, so what I have pertains to Maine.

First to definition: (numbers refer to Maine statutes and paragraphs)

Title 17

§2263. Definitions

As used in this chapter, unless the context otherwise indicates, the following terms have the following meanings. [2001, c. 667, Pt. A, §33 (amd).]

1-C. Commercial purpose. "Commercial purpose" means for the purpose of *economic gain*.[1989, c. 820, §2 (new).]

4. Vehicle. "Vehicle" means every vehicle which is self-propelled and designed for carrying persons or property or which is used for the transportation of persons, except motorcycles, farm implements and snowmobiles.[1975, c. 739, §6 (amd).]

4-A. Commercial vehicle. "Commercial vehicle" means a vehicle owned or used by a business, corporation, association, partnership, or the sole proprietorship of any entity conducting business for a *commercial purpose*.[1989, c. 820, §3 (new).]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Title 29-A para 504

§501. Fees for registration; motor vehicles

The annual fees for the registration of motor vehicles must accompany the application for registration and are as follows. [1993, c. 683, Pt. A, §2 (new); Pt. B, §5 (aff).]

1. Automobiles; pickup trucks. The fee for an automobile or pickup truck used for the conveyance of passengers or interchangeably for passengers or property is $25. 
An automobile used for the conveyance of passengers or property is a "combination" vehicle and may be issued a special plate with the word "combination" instead of "Vacationland." A passenger vehicle used under contract with the State, a municipality or a school district to transport students must be designated as "combination." A vehicle owned or operated by parents or legal guardians is exempt from this subsection. 
Commercial plates may not be issued for or displayed on an automobile.
*The gross weight of a pickup truck registered as provided by this subsection may not exceed 6,000 pounds*. An owner of a pickup truck who operates the pickup truck with a gross weight in excess of 6,000 pounds or the pickup truck drawing a semitrailer with a combined gross weight in excess of 6,000 pounds *must register the truck as provided in section 504. *

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Title 29-A para 504

§504. Registration of commercial motor vehicles

A. For gross weight from 0 to 6,000 pounds, the fee is $25. [1999, c. 790, Pt. C, §8 (amd); §19 (aff).]

B. For gross weight from 6,001 to 9,000 pounds, the fee is $31. [1999, c. 790, Pt. C, §8 (amd); §19 (aff).]

C. For gross weight from 9,001 to 12,000 pounds, the fee is $48. [1999, c. 790, Pt. C, §8 (amd); §19 (aff).]

D. For gross weight from 12,001 to 14,000 pounds, the fee is $81. [1999, c. 790, Pt. C, §8 (amd); §19 (aff).]

E. For gross weight from 14,001 to 16,000 pounds, the fee is $105. [1999, c. 790, Pt. C, §8 (amd); §19 (aff).]

F. For gross weight from 16,001 to 18,000 pounds, the fee is $130. [1999, c. 790, Pt. C, §8 (amd); §19 (aff).]

G. For gross weight from 18,001 to 20,000 pounds, the fee is $161. [1999, c. 790, Pt. C, §8 (amd); §19 (aff).]

H. For gross weight from 20,001 to 23,000 pounds, the fee is $188. [1999, c. 790, Pt. C, §8 (amd); §19 (aff).]

I. For gross weight from 23,001 to 26,000 pounds, the fee is $220. [1999, c. 790, Pt. C, §8 (amd); §19 (aff).]

J. For gross weight from 26,001 to 28,000 pounds, the fee is $267. [1999, c. 790, Pt. C, §8 (amd); §19 (aff).]


----------



## Mick (May 19, 2001)

For anyone who cares, the following Maine Statutes also lays out reasons for cancellation. Pay attn to #3 as plowing snow will increase the risk exposure of the insurance co.

http://janus.state.me.us/Legis/Statutes/24-A/title24-Asec2916-A.html


----------



## SteveR (Sep 24, 2003)

I use Farm Family, they told me to use commercial insurance to be sure there is never a question... The cost isnt that much more and they seem to be a little more forgiving about little claims meaning they dont raise your rates way up. Ive never had a claim on my regular insurance without an increase. NH does not require Commercial registration and none of my trucks are in the company name all personal.
There is my 2 cents


----------



## cwags73 (Sep 3, 2007)

I have Allstate for my autos. they told me I needed a separate policy for my truck if I was going to use it for plowing and pulling my trailer. Unless you want to lose everything you own, I would not take the risk of not having liability insurance. Run over someones dog while your out plowing and they will be suing you for a funeral, a grave plot, and a new litter of pups.


----------



## JeepPlow18 (Sep 4, 2006)

cwags73;416057 said:


> I have Allstate for my autos. they told me I needed a separate policy for my truck if I was going to use it for plowing and pulling my trailer. Unless you want to lose everything you own, I would not take the risk of not having liability insurance. Run over someones dog while your out plowing and they will be suing you for a funeral, a grave plot, and a new litter of pups.


Allstate is good but when I started to talk about plowing insurance... Well lets just say I cant plow or open up a policy because im not 25!!! That is ridiculous, they are morons and didnt treat me well, didnt even talk of another company that I could go to. This made me doubt them. Sorry for venting thats just my experience with them.:angry:


----------

