# Maintaining good voltage while plowing 2010 2500HD 6.0



## Rum Runner (Jul 18, 2010)

my 10 2500HD 6.0 has dual batts, new high CCA AGM batteries, as I am plowing a parking lot the voltage seems to drop to the point I feel the amperage at the plow pump will start to go up which will over heat and damage may result. In the past I just installed a high amp alt and that did the trick. I was told by my starter/alt repair shop tech. that the newer trks charging voltage rates are controlled by the trk computer, so adding a high amp alt is not as effective as in the past . Any thoughts on keeping the voltage up on these newer trucks.... TIA


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Did you ask the alt tech you talked to?


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## Rum Runner (Jul 18, 2010)

Mr.Markus said:


> Did you ask the alt tech you talked to?


Yes and the repair guy is also my friend, so according to him by adding a much higher amp alt it will not be as effective as in the past because the trks computer wont let it charge.... so what I am experiencing is that after hrs of plowing the voltage is getting lower and lower to the point I will stop and turn off all lights , fans and rev the eng up in an attempt to regain some voltage, that never happened with my older trks with beefed up alternators..... It's like we need an override switch for the alt charging rate when we are using a lot of power ie plowing.... we have tow haul, we have manual shift . just a thought .


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

So if you rev it up it charges faster but will not let a higher amp alt charge faster...
That seems off...Im not saying he's wrong but my 2020 has a 2 alts option so there must be a way to have the dealer flash the computer if that is the case...
I think its not...


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## Rum Runner (Jul 18, 2010)

Mr.Markus said:


> So if you rev it up it charges faster but will not let a higher amp alt charge faster...
> That seems off...Im not saying he's wrong but my 2020 has a 2 alts option so there must be a way to have the dealer flash the computer if that is the case...
> I think its not...


There is an upgrade to these trucks they call the big 3 wire upgrades to address what is possibly going on with my rig. Take a moment to view the video and let me know what you think, and thanks Mr. Markus for your input


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## FlakePusher (Sep 15, 2021)

If you have a factory battery isolator, you'll want to bypass it during the plow season to ensure you're getting your full current capacity.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

How is the secondary battery wired in?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

What gear do you plow in?


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## Rum Runner (Jul 18, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What gear do you plow in?


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## Rum Runner (Jul 18, 2010)

Fisher XV2, 2010 Silverado 2500 HD 6.0 Gas, I plow in Tow Haul Mode , which delays the shifting thus revving the eng more to charge better when driving to the next lot, If its a larger lot I will manual shift to keep the revs up for each pass


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## Rum Runner (Jul 18, 2010)

FlakePusher said:


> If you have a factory battery isolator, you'll want to bypass it during the plow season to ensure you're getting your full current capacity.


Truck came with one Batt when I bought it, I added the second ( 2 New AGMs)


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## Rum Runner (Jul 18, 2010)

Randall Ave said:


> How is the secondary battery wired in?


Both Batts are in the OEM locations, wired in Parallel,


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Are you plowing in 1st gear?


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## Rum Runner (Jul 18, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Are you plowing in 1st gear?


If I'm just plowing a DW I'm in D , If my passes are long in a bigger lot I will plow in manual 1 to avoid upshifts, esp in deep snow or heavy snow.


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

How old is the plow? Have you done a draw test on it?


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## Rum Runner (Jul 18, 2010)

Its 4 yrs old, and never done a load test on it.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Is this a new problem, or has it always been like this?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

AGM ...I know these are popular but try some batteries that the truck was made for.

https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/blog/three-misconceptions-agm-batteries/


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mr.Markus said:


> So if you rev it up it charges faster but will not let a higher amp alt charge faster...
> That seems off...Im not saying he's wrong but my 2020 has a 2 alts option so there must be a way to have the dealer flash the computer if that is the case...
> I think its not...


@Rum Runner is correct to a point from what I have experienced.

The computer will only allow charge as it needs it. I had an alternator on my 6.0 go bad it an odd way. It would not charge until you got the RPM's up over 2,500 rpm, then it would engage and work just fine. If you started the truck and let it idle, it would show "check charging system" and the battery light would be illuminated.

From the GM upfitter guide:

Charging System Description and Operation

Electrical Power Management Overview
The electrical power management system is designed to monitor and control the charging system and send diagnostic messages to alert the driver of possible problems with the battery and generator. This electrical power management system primarily utilizes existing on-board computer capability to maximize the effectiveness of the generator, to manage the load, improve battery state-of-charge and life, and minimize the system's impact on fuel economy. The electrical power management system performs 3 functions:
• It monitors the battery voltage and estimates the battery condition.
• It takes corrective actions by boosting idle speeds, and adjusting the regulated voltage.
• It performs diagnostics and driver notification. 
The battery condition is estimated during ignition-off and during ignition-on. During ignition-off the state-of-charge of the battery is determined by measuring the open-circuit voltage. The state-of-charge is a function of the acid concentration and the internal resistance of the battery, and is estimated by reading the battery open circuit voltage when the battery has been at rest for several hours.
The state-of-charge can be used as a diagnostic tool to tell the customer or the dealer the condition of the battery. Throughout ignition-on, the algorithm continuously estimates state-of-charge based on adjusted net amp hours, battery capacity, initial state-of-charge, and temperature.
While running, the battery degree of discharge is primarily determined by a battery current sensor, which is integrated to obtain net amp hours.
In addition, the electrical power management function is designed to perform regulated voltage control to improve battery state-of-charge, battery life, and fuel economy. This is accomplished by using knowledge of the battery state-of-charge and temperature to set the charging voltage to an optimum battery voltage level for recharging without detriment to battery life.
The Charging System Description and Operation is divided into 3 sections. 
The first section describes the charging system components and their integration into the electrical power management.
The second section describes charging system operation.
The third section describes the instrument panel cluster operation of the charge indicator, driver information center messages, and voltmeter operation.

Charging System Components

Generator
The generator is a serviceable component. If there is a diagnosed failure of the generator it must be replaced as an assembly. The engine drive belt drives the generator. When the rotor is spun it induces an alternating current (AC) into the stator windings. The
AC voltage is then sent through a series of diodes for rectification. The rectified voltage has been converted into a direct current (DC) for use by the vehicles electrical system to maintain electrical loads and the battery charge. The voltage regulator integral to the generator controls the output of the generator. It is not serviceable. The voltage regulator controls the amount of current provided to the rotor. If the generator has field control circuit failure, the generator defaults to an output voltage of 13.8 V.

Body Control Module (BCM)
The body control module (BCM) is a GMLAN device.
It communicates with the engine control module (ECM) and the instrument panel cluster for electrical power management (electrical power management) operation.
The BCM determines the output of the generator and sends the information to the ECM for control of the generator turn on signal circuit.
It monitors the generator field duty cycle signal circuit information sent from the ECM for control of the generator.
It monitors a battery current sensor, the battery positive voltage circuit, and estimated battery temperature to determine battery state of charge. The BCM performs idle boost.

Battery Current Sensor
The battery current sensor is a serviceable component that is connected to either the negative or positive battery cable at the battery.
The battery current sensor is a 3-wire hall effect current sensor. The battery current sensor monitors the battery current.
It directly inputs to the BCM. It creates a 5-volt pulse width modulation (PWM) signal of 128 Hz with a duty cycle of 0-100 percent.
Normal duty cycle is between 5- 95 percent.
Between 0-5 percent and 95-100 percent are for diagnostic purposes.

Engine Control Module (ECM)
When the engine is running, the generator turn-on signal is sent to the generator from the ECM, turning on the regulator. The generator's voltage regulator controls current to the rotor, thereby controlling the output voltage. The rotor current is proportional to the electrical pulse width supplied by the regulator. When the engine is started, the regulator senses generator rotation by detecting AC voltage at the stator through an internal wire. Once the engine is running, the regulator varies the field current by controlling the pulse width. This regulates the generator output voltage for proper battery charging and electrical system operation. The generator field duty terminal is connected internally to the voltage regulator and externally to the ECM. When the voltage regulator detects a charging system problem, it grounds this
circuit to signal the ECM that a problem exists. The ECM monitors the generator field duty cycle signal circuit, and receives control decisions based on information from the BCM.

Instrument Panel Cluster
The instrument panel cluster provides the customer notification in case a concern with the charging system.
There are 2 means of notification, a charge indicator and a driver information center message of SERVICE BATTERY CHARGING SYSTEM if equipped. 
Charging System Operation
The purpose of the charging system is to maintain the battery charge and vehicle loads. 
There are 6 modes of operation and they include:
• Battery Sulfation Mode
• Charge Mode
• Fuel Economy Mode
• Headlamp Mode
• Start Up Mode
• Voltage Reduction Mode
The engine control module (ECM) controls the generator through the generator turn ON signal circuit.
The ECM monitors the generator performance though the generator field duty cycle signal circuit.
The signal is a pulse width modulation (PWM) signal of 128 Hz with a duty cycle of 0-100 percent.
Normal duty cycle is between 5-95 percent.
Between 0-5 percent and 95- 100 percent are for diagnostic purposes. 
The following table shows the commanded duty cycle and output voltage of the generator:
Commanded Duty Cycle Generator Output Voltage
10% 11 V
20% 11.56 V
30% 12.12 V
40% 12.68 V
50% 13.25 V
60% 13.81 V
70% 14.37 V
80% 14.94 V
90% 15.5 V
The generator provides a feedback signal of the generator voltage output through the generator field duty cycle signal circuit to the ECM.
This information is sent to the body control module (BCM).
The signal is PWM signal of 128 Hz with a duty cycle of 0- 100 percent. Normal duty cycle is between 5- 99 percent.
Between 0-5 percent and 100 percent are for diagnostic purposes.

Battery Sulfation Mode
The BCM will enter this mode when the interpreted generator output voltage is less than 13.2 V for 45 minutes.
When this condition exists the BCM will enter Charge Mode for 2-3 minutes.
The BCM will then determine which mode to enter depending on voltage requirements.

Charge Mode
The BCM will enter Charge Mode when ever one of the following conditions are met.
• The wipers are ON for more than 3 seconds.
• GMLAN (Climate Control Voltage Boost Mode Request) is true, as sensed by the HVAC control head. High speed cooling fan, rear defogger and HVAC high speed blower operation can cause the BCM to enter the Charge Mode.
• The estimated battery temperature is less than 0° C (32°F).
• Battery State of Charge is less than 80 percent.
• Vehicle speed is greater than 145 km/h (90 mph)
• Current sensor fault exists.
• System voltage was determined to be below 12.56 V
When any one of these conditions is met, the system will set targeted generator output voltage to a charging voltage between 13.9-15.5 V, depending on the battery state of charge and estimated battery temperature.

Fuel Economy Mode
The BCM will enter Fuel Economy Mode when the estimated battery temperature is at least 0°C (32°F) but less than or equal to 80°C (176°F), the calculated battery current is less than 15 amperes and greater than −8 amperes, and the battery state-of-charge is greater than or equal to 80 percent. Its targeted
generator output voltage is the open circuit voltage of the battery and can be between 12.5-13.1 V.
The BCM will exit this mode and enter Charge Mode when any of the conditions described above are present.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Headlamp Mode
The BCM will enter Headlamp Mode when ever the headlamps are ON (high or low beams). Voltage will be regulated between 13.9–14.5 V.

Start Up Mode
When the engine is started the BCM sets a targeted generator output voltage of 14.5 V for 30 seconds.

Voltage Reduction Mode
The BCM will enter Voltage Reduction Mode when the calculated ambient air temperature is above 0°C (32° F). The calculated battery current is less than 1 ampere and greater than −7 amperes, and the generator field duty cycle is less than 99 percent. Its targeted generator output voltage is 12.9 V. The BCM will exit this mode once the criteria are met for Charge Mode.

Instrument Panel Cluster Operation
Charge Indicator Operation
The instrument panel cluster illuminates the charge indicator and displays a warning message in the driver information center if equipped, when the one or more of the following occurs:
• The engine control module (ECM) detects that the generator output is less than 11 V or greater than 16 V. The instrument panel cluster receives a GMLAN message from the ECM requesting illumination.
• The instrument panel cluster determines that the system voltage is less than 11 V or greater than 16 V for more than 30 seconds. The instrument panel cluster receives a GMLAN message from the body control module (BCM) indicating there is a system voltage range concern.
• The instrument panel cluster performs the displays test at the start of each ignition cycle. The indicator illuminates for approximately 3 seconds.
Display Message: BATTERY NOT CHARGING SERVICE CHARGING SYSTEM or SERVICE BATTERY CHARGING SYSTEM
The BCM and the ECM will send a serial data message to the driver information center for the BATTERY NOT CHARGING SERVICE CHARGING SYSTEM or SERVICE BATTERY CHARGING SYSTEM message to be displayed. It is commanded ON when a charging system DTC is a current DTC. The message is turned
OFF when the conditions for clearing the DTC have been met.


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## Rum Runner (Jul 18, 2010)

Randall Ave said:


> Is this a new problem, or has it always been like this?


I've had the trk for 4 yrs and plowed with it 4 yrs and it's always been lazy at charging. my older trks with high output alt's never had this prob, I am thinking on installing a much higher amp alt but I am told it will not help much if any, as the newer trks rate of charge is held back with computers in order to help fuel economy.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> AGM ...I know these are popular but try some batteries that the truck was made for.
> 
> https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/blog/three-misconceptions-agm-batteries/


I replace all batteries in larger equipment and trucks with AGMs as they have been extremely reliable and long lasting. They work great with plowing.

As for charging them...or any battery, I've had to train my guys that when a battery is dead, you put the charger on it. Letting it idle for an hour is not going to charge it. Someday they'll understand.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I have agms in my old truck, and I do like that they discharge slower with higher power demands on them, Now that it sits more I have to charge them up more often when not in use so I did a little reading on them and found multiple opinions.
It is hard to reason a lot of it and.I dont believe everything I read on the interweb and I dont believe im doing anything wrong either, my 07 has both its original alternators and I believe with all the power i run thats pretty good, plow,salter,hoist,extra lights,compressor for air shocks etc.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Agm like optima =overpriced +short life
Just my experience using them in my plow trucks.
They don’t seem to take heavy/ deep cycling very well.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> Agm like optima =overpriced +short life
> Just my experience using them in my plow trucks.
> They don't seem to take heavy/ deep cycling very well.


We know...and Odysseys are even higher priced than Optimas.

But I have had excellent luck with them, especially in my other 2500 with that POS Hemi, single alternator and one battery. Replaced the OEM with an Odyssey and haven't had a low voltage issue since.


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## FlakePusher (Sep 15, 2021)

Rum Runner said:


> Fisher XV2, 2010 Silverado 2500 HD 6.0 Gas, I plow in Tow Haul Mode , which delays the shifting thus revving the eng more to charge better when driving to the next lot, If its a larger lot I will manual shift to keep the revs up for each pass


this assumes you plow at a speed high enough to require a shift to second. A better bet would be to overdrive the alternator using a smaller pulley.


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## FlakePusher (Sep 15, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I replace all batteries in larger equipment and trucks with AGMs as they have been extremely reliable and long lasting. They work great with plowing.
> 
> As for charging them...or any battery, I've had to train my guys that when a battery is dead, you put the charger on it. Letting it idle for an hour is not going to charge it. Someday they'll understand.


Keep in mind AGM requires a special charger in order to charge it properly/safely.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

If you plow for $$$ you’ll go fast enough in 1st to get to 2k rpm, Usually most alternators put their max out between 1500 and 2500rpm

Most guys plow fast enough to get it to shift into second or third but in my opinion you should limit shifting while plowing as it creates excess heat and slippage in the transmission


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## FlakePusher (Sep 15, 2021)

Hydromaster said:


> If you plow for $$$ you'll go fast enough in 1st to get to 2k rpm, Usually most alternators put their max out between 1500 and 2500rpm
> 
> Most guys plow fast enough to get it to shift into second or third but in my opinion you should limit shifting while plowing as it creates excess heat and slippage in the transmission


yeah i suppose it depends on the type of plowing you do, and on top of that, something I didn't think of is the fact that the newer trucks with their 6+ speed transmissions have more gears to factor in = more shifts.


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## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

Upgrade it to dual alternators, like the newer trucks. You also can call and talk to these people, very reputable business, I have purchased from them.--
https://alternatorparts.com/And,this company has an excellent reputation---
https://www.nationsstarteralternato...c-Dual-Alternator-Bracket-p/gmdak-bracket.htm


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Mountain Bob said:


> Upgrade it to dual alternators, like the newer trucks.


What new truck(s) have dual alt option on gas engines again?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Mountain Bob said:


> Upgrade it to dual alternators, like the newer trucks. You also can call and talk to these people, very reputable business, I have purchased from them.--
> https://alternatorparts.com/And,this company has an excellent reputation---
> https://www.nationsstarteralternato...c-Dual-Alternator-Bracket-p/gmdak-bracket.htm


So your saying he needs a dual alr set up here.. 
But on this one your said only batteries supply the voltage?


Mountain Bob said:


> The truck is not powering the plow,the battery is.


So which is it, I'm confused?

So why the dual alts when all he needs is batteries....


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## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

dieselss said:


> What new truck(s) have dual alt option on gas engines again?


Don't really keep up on it, but dodge has since 2010.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Mountain Bob said:


> Don't really keep up on it, but dodge has since 2010.


On there gas engines....as an oem option?


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## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

dieselss said:


> On there gas engines....as an oem option?


snowplow option,hemi,single battery, dual alternators


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Mountain Bob said:


> Don't really keep up on it, but dodge has since 2010.


So this is helping the op since he has a chevy..


Mountain Bob said:


> snowplow option,hemi,single battery, dual alternators


Saw that on a 19....not a dodge guy so didn't know there was option


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

From what I have read, and I do not have that in front of me. AGM batteries will work, but they take longer to charge if they become discharged. As for his year, I do not no if the ECU controls his charging.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

I believe it’s an option on the power wagon.
And on some diesels there could be more.

If the op had a dodge
he would need to have ECM settings changed to add a second alternator also it involves adding brackets, wiring harness and belt rerouting.
Before going to a second alternator the OP would be farther ahead to add a second battery.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Randall Ave said:


> Is this a new problem, or has it always been like this?





Philbilly2 said:


> @Rum Runner is correct to a point from what I have experienced.
> 
> The computer will only allow charge as it needs it. I had an alternator on my 6.0 go bad it an odd way. It would not charge until you got the RPM's up over 2,500 rpm, then it would engage and work just fine. If you started the truck and let it idle, it would show "check charging system" and the battery light would be illuminated.
> 
> ...


Bruh…No… just no.


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## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

Hydromaster said:


> I believe it's an option on the power wagon.
> And on some diesels there could be more.
> 
> If the op had a dodge
> ...


He has dual batt's


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

battsWhat age and cc
Is there an isolator. 
What size is the cabling connecting them?
Clean and tighten the connections and while are you cleaning and taking things apart, replace it with bigger cabling and then shorten up the cabling leading to the plow.

plow in1st. 

Turn off all unnecessary accessories.

Think about your plow movements
start raising the plow just before you get into the pile not after you’re pushing up into the pile.
make your adjustments for the plow, left or right while you’re backing up not while you’re sitting at idle.


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Adjusting plow while your backing up was covered in plowing 101 I think


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Good,
With the great tinfoil shortage these days you can never be too careful.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> battsWhat age and cc
> Is there an isolator.
> What size is the cabling connecting them?
> Clean and tighten the connections and while are you cleaning and taking things apart, replace it with bigger cabling and then shorten up the cabling leading to the plow.
> ...


This is an extremely aggressive post. :yow!:


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

WIPensFan said:


> This is an extremely aggressive post. :yow!:


At least it wasn't angry.:realmad:


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## Rum Runner (Jul 18, 2010)

Hydromaster said:


> battsWhat age and cc
> Is there an isolator.
> What size is the cabling connecting them?
> Clean and tighten the connections and while are you cleaning and taking things apart, replace it with bigger cabling and then shorten up the cabling leading to the plow.
> ...


Hydromaster the 2 batts are 1 yr old, 900 CCA , no isolator that I know of, cables / connections are always cleaned and greased pre season. I am going to replace the ground wire and add a good grnd cable dir to alt . and up size the cable connecting the two batts. I plow in tow haul which helps when driving to the next account site.


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## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

RR, your Chevy is in the years that many came with bad, poorly constructed battery cables, and things left loose, causing corrosion(fusible links comes to mind). You can get the "updated" parts from GM, but most seem to make their own cables, AND go to larger size,which is always good.AND clean all connections, 2 known trouble spots are the power junction block, and the frame rail ground. Also, the chevy charging system is controlled very complexly, (and stupidly, in my opinion), all in the name of better fuel economy. You are smart to plow in tow/haul, this generally keeps the alternator at full charging status. Another thing, as you have had this problem a while, consider replacing the battery charging sensor (install properly!) as they do not cost much.


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