# How Much Can One Truck Handle?



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

Hello everyone. I have spent several years in lawn maintenance and am now offering commercial and residential snow removal services. I am starting to worry that I may have too much on my plate but at the same time, I may be very well under what I can handle.

Commercial List: 4 McDonalds, 1 24/7 gas station, 1 bank, 1 storage facility, and 4 other relatively small commercial properties.


Residential List: 15 homes and counting.


I am running an 04' F-250 Diesel with a 7.5" Western plow. I also have a worker riding with me all the time with a Toro 621 QZE blower in the bed. The truck is also equipped with a small Western salt spreader.


Anyways, If someone could help me out to see where I stand with my current clients. With my residentials, I will have up to 24 hours to clear them after the snow is finished. I'm just worried about keeping the McDonalds and gas station going. I plan to start super early in the morning but understand I don't always get to decide that.

Think this is too much, not enough, or just right?


----------



## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

Id say your in over your head. Youve got commercial places to get opened up in the morning probably by 7 am id venture to say. Most companies start at the 1am 2 am mark. And with out doing bulk, Id say that thats going to cause problems. Mainly becasue as you salt you should be passing by and viewing your previously salted account so you can see if it needs to get some more or whatever. Id strongly suggest looking for a sub to take on a few accounts that can help you otherwise i think you will be hurting. 

the company i work for does 14 accounts and we run 8 pieces of equipment 5 of which are dedicated on site machines at 3 different locations. But still we have 3 pieces running to do 11 accounts plus then a sidewalk crew and thats gets a little trickey on a bigger snow fall.


----------



## gwhalen3 (Jan 15, 2010)

You will be very busy!! But THAT'S the point right. Good job. Good luck


----------



## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Put some wings on that plow.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Avery07;1371915 said:


> Hello everyone. I have spent several years in lawn maintenance and am now offering commercial and residential snow removal services. I am starting to worry that I may have too much on my plate but at the same time, I may be very well under what I can handle.
> 
> Commercial List: 4 McDonalds, 1 24/7 gas station, 1 bank, 1 storage facility, and 4 other relatively small commercial properties.
> 
> ...


I see yourself struggling with this many accounts and one truck, if it was me I'd find a sub or add another truck and have your helper run it. 
You'll find McD's, the Gas Station and Bank will keep you busy (depending on the contract). Then you have the storage units, 4 small commercials and finally the 15 rezi's to deal with. Even if your rezi's are cool with you hitting them after the storm you'll find yourself spent before you get to them. After spending 8-10hrs you'll be fatigued and then you're opening up the door for mistakes, possibly causing property damage and all the money you just busted your hump for just went up in smoke. We all think we can take on anything thrown in front of us, we're guys and it's the way we're wired, but the truth is we do have limitations.
Another thing to consider is what kind of back up plan do you have in case of a breakdown. Having a sub or another truck really comes in handy when you're troubleshooting/fixing the truck. 
I'm a one man/truck show, my route takes 5hrs and I also sub for a friend which adds another 2hrs. I do a mix of commercial and rezi's and I wouldn't want to take on anymore. My buddy is my back up and I'm his, this year I had a pump issue and ended up being down for about 2hrs. It sure was nice to be able to call my buddy to pick up the slack.


----------



## 04tundra (Jan 30, 2011)

let me first say that im no professional but here are my thoughts. take it for what its worth.

what kinda of triggers do you have on these accounts? if you have a 1 inch trigger for all 4 mcdonalds then you basically need a dedicated machine and operator for all 4 sites..


----------



## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

It's all about the times
Make a spread sheet with the times u have to have them open by and how long they take
Leave a space between each one and put the travel time to the next on
Total the times up. 
Figure out a few scenarios. Eg u don't want to plow McDonalds at noon but I would say it needs to be done at say 6am, 10:30 and 4:30
That way it's before the Rush. Get to the gas station before morning traffic. timing is key. 
I would get wings it will save you alot of time at gas stations. When u salt that gas station put lots at the entrance an cars will carry it in
Around the pumps alot cause cars are warm and dripping off slush.

Your resi accts have lots of time as u have said
I think your fine and well I use to do 56 commercials 
With 2 trucks and a bobcat but timing was key. You will be fine. Plot a few options and draw it out
Think about backup. Make a friend.


----------



## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

What a 7.5 plow you got to be crazy and have the work load thats crazy Good luck


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

I think you're in WAY over your head. Why would you take all that with one truck?


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

The McDonald's properties need to be clean and open by 6:00am. I haven't hammered out details with the owner as to how much service they need but it was my understanding it wasn't going to be 24/7. In Kansas, we really don't get a whole lot. Maybe 5 storms a year ranging from 3-7 inches. I think they are assuming the snow will be done falling by 6 and if not, I will come back every few inches. I mow for them as well and they basically let me call shots as I see them. McDonald's is responsible for another 3 commercial and 2 residential properties on my list.

My gas station needs 24/7 service. I figure every inch or two will be fine.

The bank (adjacent to the gas station) needs to be clear by 8:00am.

The rest of my commercial properties are non-critical but need to be taken care of in reasonable time.

My plan was to start at 1:00am at the gas station. Then move to the four McDonald's 2:00-7:00a, returning to the gas station and then the bank at 7:00am, having it cleared by 8:00am.

I can then begin tackling my non-critical commercial lots while continually making passes at McDonald's and the gas station as needed. After the snow has finished, I will do a final cleaning of the commercials and then continue on to residentials.



When I write it out like that, I really don't see the problem. Also, I am currently working on the back up plan. I have a friend who plows and can have a couple contractors on call as well. Additionally, I am looking to purchase a crappy plow truck as back up.


----------



## NicholasMWhite (Oct 5, 2008)

You really dive right in there don't you. I agree that you're in over your head and If you don't get a sub you are in some trouble in my opinion. I'm assuming the Mac Donald's aren't right next door to each other, although in some places it may seem like they are. So drive time is going to factor in to this quite a bit as well. I think you need a second truck and it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a third as a back up truck just sitting unused in case of an equipment failure or to put your helper in on those big storms.

If you don't get some help you are going to have some very upset customers unless every storm you have is only 2-3 inches.

Furthermore I think even though you told your customers that you would service them within 24 hours, they thought you meant 2.4 hours. When it comes time to go to work and they can't leave their driveway most of them will be upset. Some customers don't mind it, but they are tough to come by.

You need help or you will regret entering the snow plowing industry.


----------



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Its almost impossible for us to give you a solid answer. To me it seems like you have too much going on. A lot will depend on the locations of the accounts. You have to almost plan on worst case scenario storms. Huge storms, people tend to understand a bit more but around here anything under a 12" storm is kind of no big deal as long as you made a few passes just to keep them open then clean it up nice when the storm is over. A few things that would bother me if I were in your shoes, you only have one truck, hopefully you have a friend who can back you up if needed. Second would be that your commercial accounts are demanding ones, the least would be the storage place. The problem with these types of accounts is they all need attention at the same time basically, they all expect to be open by a certain time. As far as the rest, they shouldn't be treated any different. Third, you need to either get some wings or just a bigger plow, I would go for wings for this year. Even if wings or a larger plow can save you 3 minutes of work on each lot it's money well spent. Very few people understand, they just want plowed with no excuses. To be completely honest with you, and I've been in your shoes and have been doing this since 2003 but my PROFESSIONAL OPINION is you have too much for one truck. This is what I would do, take what you can comfortably handle in 4-5 hours and either look for a sub or look to sub out the rest to another company. Ive made some good connections/friends hiring their company for things I couldn't do or handle. Build slowly! I hope this helps you and kudos for being aggressive, it reminds me of when I first started.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Brian Young;1372094 said:


> Its almost impossible for us to give you a solid answer. To me it seems like you have too much going on. A lot will depend on the locations of the accounts. You have to almost plan on worst case scenario storms. Huge storms, people tend to understand a bit more but around here anything under a 12" storm is kind of no big deal as long as you made a few passes just to keep them open then clean it up nice when the storm is over. A few things that would bother me if I were in your shoes, you only have one truck, hopefully you have a friend who can back you up if needed. Second would be that your commercial accounts are demanding ones, the least would be the storage place. The problem with these types of accounts is they all need attention at the same time basically, they all expect to be open by a certain time. As far as the rest, they shouldn't be treated any different. Third, you need to either get some wings or just a bigger plow, I would go for wings for this year. Even if wings or a larger plow can save you 3 minutes of work on each lot it's money well spent. Very few people understand, they just want plowed with no excuses. To be completely honest with you, and I've been in your shoes and have been doing this since 2003 but my PROFESSIONAL OPINION is you have too much for one truck. This is what I would do, take what you can comfortably handle in 4-5 hours and either look for a sub or look to sub out the rest to another company. Ive made some good connections/friends hiring their company for things I couldn't do or handle. Build slowly! I hope this helps you and kudos for being aggressive, it reminds me of when I first started.


Brian, there is a difference between being aggressive and being stupid. This to me is stupid. The "Build slowly" is right on.


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

This isn't my first rodeo. I have played in the shallow end in the past. Last year I worked 10 residentials with a blower. The previous year, I maintained 2 subways and a handful of rezis. This is my first true year diving in. I can add another truck if needed. My reason for posting was to see if one truck can handle this as during my previous year, I have never came close to reaching capacity, often finishing by noon.. with a blower at that. My subways were done before 8:00am, starting at 6:00.


----------



## NicholasMWhite (Oct 5, 2008)

Avery07;1372102 said:


> This isn't my first rodeo. I have played in the shallow end in the past. Last year I worked 10 residentials with a blower. The previous year, I maintained 2 subways and a handful of rezis. This is my first true year diving in. I can add another truck if needed. My reason for posting was to see if one truck can handle this as during my previous year, I have never came close to reaching capacity, often finishing by noon.. with a blower at that. My subways were done before 8:00am, starting at 6:00.


Well the answer to your main question is a resounding "no."

Take the advice, or don't. But you asked if one truck could handle all of the work and everyone said that it can't.

If you get 2-3 inch storms that start at 10PM and end at 1AM you'll be fine... Hell all of our lives would be much easier, but unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

Furthermore in snow plowing you must abide by Murphy's Law or else!


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

Thanks for the advise everyone.


----------



## NicholasMWhite (Oct 5, 2008)

Avery07;1372113 said:


> Thanks for the advise everyone.


Listen, don't take this all the wrong way, we're not trying to be a**holes, we're honestly trying to help you.

Best advice is to find a sub, split the work up and hope for the best. If you can find a good deal on that beater back up truck you spoke of then jump on it. It won't hurt and a cheap plow truck doesn't go down in value. If you find that your sub isn't necessary and everything is going smoothly, then drop him, no harm done.

You don't want to burn your bridges, especially if these are existing customers that you service in the summer as well.


----------



## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

If you don't know how long each of these lots is going to take how the hell were you able to price them properly?
That being said around here the Micky d's are not a high service location neither are most gas stations. I've stopped at Micky d's for breakfast before and had the manager ask me if I could plow them because their guy probably wouldn't be there til some time after noon. It all really depends on the level of service they all expect.


----------



## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Italiano67;1371964 said:


> Put some wings on that plow.


Ditto that. Get some wings ASAP.

You'll be fine, just busy as all hell and if you get a big storm you'll probably need to get a buddy with another truck out.

N/M I just caught the 15 ressis. Get a sub ASAP. Stick them on the simple commercial jobs or on all the houses.


----------



## MGV (Dec 7, 2009)

Avery07;1372081 said:


> The McDonald's properties need to be clean and open by 6:00am. I haven't hammered out details with the owner as to how much service they need but it was my understanding it wasn't going to be 24/7. In Kansas, we really don't get a whole lot. Maybe 5 storms a year ranging from 3-7 inches. I think they are assuming the snow will be done falling by 6 and if not, I will come back every few inches. I mow for them as well and they basically let me call shots as I see them. McDonald's is responsible for another 3 commercial and 2 residential properties on my list.
> 
> My gas station needs 24/7 service. I figure every inch or two will be fine.
> 
> ...


The plan sounds like it may work at best if the snow stops during the morning. What about a heavy snow storm during the day ? you have to figure travel time will be longer. All the commercials will want you there to keep the place open. I don't think you will be able to do it with one truck and a straight blade no less


----------



## downtoearthnh (Jan 16, 2009)

I think the key to your concerns will be the storms that do not fit your plan. Weather has a way of undermining that which we think will work. Storms don't end when we want them to, heavy snow ties us up longer than we expected, Municipal crews may not have the roads pushed back, and we may have a breakdown. If you are concerned that you may have too much on your plate, mother nature is going to prove you do!


----------



## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

You say this isn't your first rodeo? Well I think you've just tied that bulls balls pretty tight. So last year you did 10 residentials with a blower and this year you're doing 6 priority commercial properties, 5 mid priority commercials, 15 residentials and counting. Meaning you're taking on more? A couple things worry me. You don't even know what your customers want. And I quote... "I haven't hammered out details with the owner as to how much service they need but it was my understanding it wasn't going to be 24/7". "My gas station needs 24/7 service. I figure every inch or two will be fine." I think you better touch base with your customers. Because what you ''figure will be fine'' may not be the same figuring your customer is thinking. And you say you want to buy a beater truck for a backup. One thing you don't want is a beater for a backup. A lot of us have them, but that's only because they started out as nice newer trucks and have turned that way after years of plowing. LOL. My biggest concern for you is what happens when it stops snowing at 7AM or so? We all know that's the worst time for a big snow dump or for it to stop snowing because commercials are opening up and now you have ALL of that to do as quickly as possible. I do like your ambition, as I am the same way. But be prepared, you are about to have some hectic days ahead.


----------



## Bison (Dec 20, 2010)

If it only snowed on weekday nights and finished by 3 am you'd be all set . You'll be stuck in one Mcdonalds's parking lot for over and hour if it's snowing cats and dogs at 5 pm with traffic and idiot drivers. Nevermind if a hose breaks right then. My guess is you need one more truck.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Put wings on your plow and have someone else with another truck on call or invest in another one for yourself...

I plowed more than that our first year with a 7.5 Western conventional that didn't angle half the time and we were able to keep up with the 2-4 inch snows here.

With that being said, each and every snow was stressful but it all got done.


----------



## Plow Nuts (Jan 11, 2011)

On my route I have 2 small apartment buildings, 3 gas stations, and 6 other decent ( larger than mcdonalds lots) commercials and am running 1 truck to keep up with it. 2500 with an 8ft western pro plus plow.... did more than that last year in the 73 f350---4SPD MANUAL---all about time management and shuffling priorities each storm---you will have to adjust and switch you route around to compensate for each storm but it can be done--have a sub or back up truck though--if your truck goes down you're screwed!!! If you get a big storm you will neeed the help. I can run my route by myself as long as it is not above 8-10 inches of snow in 1 storm. I have the advantage if my truck goes down or the snow pummels us I can call my partner and have him send a truck from his route. He is doing the equivalent of 5 home depots and 3 mcdonalds with 2 trucks and a loader with a 10ft box--woo hoo.:salute:


----------



## bhmjwp (Dec 12, 2005)

Unless it is a small storage facility, that alone could sink you with an 8" storm. Not sure where you are in Kansas, a smaller rural area, might get by with just good relations. But, take others advise and get some sort of back up, truck or sub.


----------



## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

My concern is the travel between the accounts. McDonalds aren't going to be right next to each other. If you were doing all of these within a mile or 2, no sweat. I think the question here is not can you get them done, but can you get them done and provide a level of service that will ensure that they won't look elsewhere. 

I'm sure you will be able to get them done, with a few phone calls from the customers each storm. In this situation, you may open yourself up to your competition. 

Oh, you didn't mention who was handling the walks at these accounts.


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

OrganicsL&L;1373095 said:


> My concern is the travel between the accounts. McDonalds aren't going to be right next to each other. If you were doing all of these within a mile or 2, no sweat. I think the question here is not can you get them done, but can you get them done and provide a level of service that will ensure that they won't look elsewhere.
> 
> I'm sure you will be able to get them done, with a few phone calls from the customers each storm. In this situation, you may open yourself up to your competition.
> 
> Oh, you didn't mention who was handling the walks at these accounts.


I live in a smaller town and you can get across town with a 10 minute drive. Everything is in close proximity. I will have a helper riding shotgun to handle the sidewalks with a snowblower and shovel. I have developed a close relationship with the owner of the McDonald's and I don't see them looking elsewhere for anything. They are aware of the current situation and are willing to be flexible within reason. With the 4 McDonald's properties comes an additional 3 of the smaller commercial properties and 2 rezis. It is a large account that I stay in close relationship with.


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

Some of you have suggested plow wings. I have the western pro plus plow. How much do the wings really increase your productivity? I am not too excited about spending $500 on wings for just a small increase.

What I may do is start a second crew for only rezis. I am thinking two guys with toro single stages. That will take a lot of my burden off. How many "normal" drives do you think a couple guys can do per hour in a 3-6" snow fall??


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

bhmjwp;1373046 said:


> Unless it is a small storage facility, that alone could sink you with an 8" storm. Not sure where you are in Kansas, a smaller rural area, might get by with just good relations. But, take others advise and get some sort of back up, truck or sub.


The storage facility is moderately sized, however it is non-critical. It is critical to make passes by the main office and gates during the snow fall however I can come back later to do a final clean up. It is a well-lit facility as well.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Avery07;1373113 said:


> Some of you have suggested plow wings. I have the western pro plus plow. How much do the wings really increase your productivity? I am not too excited about spending $500 on wings for just a small increase.
> 
> What I may do is start a second crew for only rezis. I am thinking two guys with toro single stages. That will take a lot of my burden off. How many "normal" drives do you think a couple guys can do per hour in a 3-6" snow fall??


A set of Buyers Pro Wings is what most everyone is running, you can get them shipped to you for about $225.00.

You pick up about 30-40% in productivity.


----------



## Mr. Jon (Feb 24, 2010)

I plow a hotel that took 2 hrs. for a 4" push. After adding the western wings ($525) it took me 1.5 hrs. That's 25% increase in productivity. I like the western wings better, they are heavier duty, are angled more than the buyers wings, and they install with one pin. The buyers wings you have to drill & bolt or weld the brackets on, don't forget to add that cost.


----------



## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

I used to do 3 condo complexes, a bank, a real estate office, and a small office building....had a sub. who didn't show a few times...the 3rd time was his last....plus about 20 resi's. The plowing portion was pretty easy....the bank and the offices got priority, and the condo's were kept open throughout the storm so everyone could easily get out. I also had to snow blow 30 condo drives with a 60" blower on my grasshopper. 

The plowing part was relatively easy to get done....worked my F250 hard, but got it done. It was all of the shoveling/blowing that had to be done. I ended up working 40 straight hours from start to finish. That is basically going out at about 4" and then staying out for the duration and final clean ups. Not a fun time, and did it 2 times solo. Oh, and BTW, these accounts were all within 5 miles of each other, less than 10 minutes apart.

So yeah, I got them all done, with no complaints. But after working that much, and then getting home at about midnight, and having to get up again at about 4 a.m. to go out and salt, I was a wreck. That winter killed me, and I am now just getting back to it this year, with a better feel for what is a realistic and sustainable level of work to have with 1 truck.


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

OrganicsL&L;1373186 said:


> I used to do 3 condo complexes, a bank, a real estate office, and a small office building....had a sub. who didn't show a few times...the 3rd time was his last....plus about 20 resi's. The plowing portion was pretty easy....the bank and the offices got priority, and the condo's were kept open throughout the storm so everyone could easily get out. I also had to snow blow 30 condo drives with a 60" blower on my grasshopper.
> 
> The plowing part was relatively easy to get done....worked my F250 hard, but got it done. It was all of the shoveling/blowing that had to be done. I ended up working 40 straight hours from start to finish. That is basically going out at about 4" and then staying out for the duration and final clean ups. Not a fun time, and did it 2 times solo. Oh, and BTW, these accounts were all within 5 miles of each other, less than 10 minutes apart.
> 
> So yeah, I got them all done, with no complaints. But after working that much, and then getting home at about midnight, and having to get up again at about 4 a.m. to go out and salt, I was a wreck. That winter killed me, and I am now just getting back to it this year, with a better feel for what is a realistic and sustainable level of work to have with 1 truck.


I have no problem being out for 30 or more hours straight. I usually work 14 hour days, 7 days a week. I'm in my early 20's and can beat my body and mind up without consequence.

From what I've read here, I plan to invest in a plan of Western plow wings. I am still looking for that back up truck and hope to see something come along soon. If not, I do have a contractor lined up to help, if needed.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

One more thing -- for salting, is it standard to charge per pound applied? I will be buying 50lb rock salt for $3/bag. I will also be getting premium ice melt for sidewalks and rezi drives. The rock salt is mainly for commercial applications. What is a standard price per pound for this? And approx how much would be needed for a standard McDonald's? I plan to buy a pallet of salt to start the season but that is just a blank guess to what I will need. I was thinking of charging .25/lb applied.


----------



## sectlandscaping (Sep 7, 2009)

we all buy salt in bulk. Its easier to figure out how much a lot will use and base your price off that. Not sure how you would charge per pound.


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

I worked out a back up plan with a construction company that can mobilize 2-3 skid loaders for me if needed. Still working on adding that second truck but I am receiving one call each day for new commercial properties and if I decide to accept these, I will be needing what looks like a third truck. I suppose this is a good problem to have..


----------



## 95HDRam (Sep 12, 2011)

Avery07;1374358 said:


> I worked out a back up plan with a construction company that can mobilize 2-3 skid loaders for me if needed. Still working on adding that second truck but I am receiving one call each day for new commercial properties and if I decide to accept these, I will be needing what looks like a third truck. I suppose this is a good problem to have..


Never a bad thingThumbs Up

We added a 4th truck last week for the addition of 8 commercial lots. Get a good game plan, back up to your back up plan, good communication, and don't get in a hurry.

Good luck to ya and have fun


----------



## jgoetter1 (Feb 23, 2007)

Do yourself a huge favor and upgrade your plow to a V or at least a wider straight blade with wings.


----------



## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

Avery07;1373103 said:


> I live in a smaller town and you can get across town with a 10 minute drive. Everything is in close proximity. I will have a helper riding shotgun to handle the sidewalks with a snowblower and shovel. I have developed a close relationship with the owner of the McDonald's and I don't see them looking elsewhere for anything. They are aware of the current situation and are willing to be flexible within reason. With the 4 McDonald's properties comes an additional 3 of the smaller commercial properties and 2 rezis. It is a large account that I stay in close relationship with.


A town that small has 4 MDs?


----------



## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Avery07;1374358 said:


> I worked out a back up plan with a construction company that can mobilize 2-3 skid loaders for me if needed. Still working on adding that second truck but I am receiving one call each day for new commercial properties and if I decide to accept these, I will be needing what looks like a third truck. I suppose this is a good problem to have..


Be weary when it's this late in the year and they haven't formulated a plan for snow yet. There's usually a back story to it.

Also, what kind of advertising are you using to get this much work so quickly?


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

BPS#1;1374622 said:


> A town that small has 4 MDs?


I picked up that too, I thought it was a Kansas thing........


----------



## JLsDmax (Dec 23, 2008)

I've been subbing for over five years and my route consists of a similar amount of accounts.(couple gas stations, burger kings, convienence stores, some resi) i think that you are in a little deep. Two reasons for this: 1) what if the truck or plow breaks, sometihng as simple as a blown hose could take 30 min to fix if you have the tools. how far behind will you fall and 2) what if a customer calls and asks you to come back, to clean up or they have a complaint(not that im saying they will complain) Do you have time to go back, will an account suffer if one takes 30min longer?. Just my opinion take it or leave it. Good luck on the season.


----------



## Greenery (Jun 23, 2007)

BPS#1;1374622 said:


> A town that small has 4 MDs?


And enough commercial work to be getting New calls everyday in mid December.


----------



## Lugnut (Feb 25, 2006)

Seems the main thing i noticed about your plan that hasnt been brought up is what kind of total accumulation you get per storm? The storage facility you say is mid sized, with the narrow isles they have you need to push snow on pretty long runs. If you cant stay up with this account this may be the hardeat one to deal with on a larger storm


----------



## Army Vet (Nov 30, 2011)

*Get a sub!*

I would agree get a sub. If you get done faster good for you and the customers are happy. Murphy's law is golden. I sent out our equipment on a 1'2" just to ensure it was all operating correctly. Guess what one truck and plow broke down and the rest did ok. I bet by the end of the season each one will break down once or twice at least.


----------



## havenlax18 (Dec 16, 2010)

Run your plow and I would get either another truck or if its not in your budget just get a few snow blowers to do all your rezis


----------



## PenfieldProp (Dec 15, 2011)

Sounds like a lot but can be done not fast and not easy I planned to run a f350 with a 9 ft fisher hd last year and do the tighter places with a nissan titan with a 7.5 western hts. Every storm and I mean every storm the 350 had an issue the nissan and hts saw the welding shop twice but I got it done 40 driveways 2 roads 8 med commercial 2 711s and a condo
I mean it took 3 days in wet snow that measured over 2 ft by the time the final cleaning was done it took 3 full days but like I said it got finished


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

I think you have too much but that's just me, I could almost triple what I have with my equipment. I'm just more concerned with getting everything done in a timely manor, only had 1 call in 15 years asking why the lot wasn't done by 6am. For a 1-3"er there's only 4 trucks and 1 skid running but everything gets done in 6.5hrs. Guess I'm too cautious


----------



## hunt 444e (Oct 1, 2011)

Personally I would take that 7.5 off and put a big kid plow on.or buy a 1/2 ton and put that 7.5 on it get up to date on insurance and stick. S one else in a truck redundancy and backup. Is key in this business. Good luck


----------



## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

Its baptism by fire now.


----------



## Bison (Dec 20, 2010)

Go get'em. Personally my last 2 trucks had 7 1/2 footers on them. I never missed the 6" but I certainly missed the extra weight .The 6" is only if you are straight across , at an angle it's more like 3" . The fisher 7 1/2 is not as heavy duty as the 8 , thats the main difference so if you can restrain from curb relocating and avoid renegade manholes you'll be fine.


----------



## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

BPS#1;1384543 said:


> Its baptism by fire now.


LOL....yeah, let us know how it all goes....good luck!


----------



## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

Hey OP, how'd it go?


----------



## BOSSMAN21 (Dec 11, 2008)

If I were going to do all that work with a 7.5 foot straight plow, I would be in over my head, if you get a 8.5 or 9.5 Extreme V for that truck, its more realistic because you cut down that much more on your plowing time. Let us know how you did.


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

OrganicsL&L;1393218 said:


> Hey OP, how'd it go?


Well.. I've actually added on more accounts since last posting. I am up to 14 commercial and 18 residential accounts. I am currently advertising hard for new residential accounts as well =/

I got hit by the storm that rolled through the midwest a week or so back. We didn't get hard-- only 2" of accumulation or so. I still went out and serviced about 75% of my properties as many are high risk commercial or on unlimited snow removal programs (most rezis).

It took me about 12 hours to finish everything up, operating solo. 7 hours commercial, 5 hours residential.

I am right where I need to be with my commercial properties. Many of them I can get to late in the day so my 7 hours was just fine.

What worries me is showing up to my residentials so late. I know they are all aware that they will be taken care of late, but I don't want to build a reputation on that. My original plan was to have a guy ride with me and take care of walks as I go along. During this snow, I found that my commercial stuff had a lot less walkways needing taken care of than I thought. Additionally, I confirmed that my plow is practically useless on a residential drive.

My new rezi plan is to have my help start at 5-6am operating only with a shovel out of his own car. He can't fit my single stage toro in their so he's SOL. I don't have another truck either. I figure he can do 3 or so rezis an hour which would have my route completed by noon. At that rate, I will still be plowing my commercial stuff when he is completed. My only concern is that it may look somewhat unprofessional however they are getting a better service at the end of the day.

And I still have my back up plan in place (my winter boss and his fleet of skid loaders).

Thoughts?

Thanks again for all your help.


----------



## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

Your plow is useless for residential driveways, yet you're advertising hard to get more of them? 
Why does your plow work for commercial asphalt but useless for residential? 
If it doesn't work, why do you want more?


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

DodgeBlizzard;1394200 said:


> Your plow is useless for residential driveways, yet you're advertising hard to get more of them?
> Why does your plow work for commercial asphalt but useless for residential?
> If it doesn't work, why do you want more?


I will have my worker take care of them with a shovel out of his car. In the event I finish with commercial before he is done with rezi, I will join the rezi attack with my single stage Toro. Right now he is only booked until noon so by my math, I can easily handle another 15 or 20 rezi.

A lot of my rezis are on steep inclines.. truck simply can not handle that kind of angle with a plow equipped. Additionally, my truck packs the hell out of the snow on residential drives. I like doing a superior job where there is no snow on the drive when I leave. The snowblower does a perfect job at this however, the truck will leave tracks that simply can't be worked up.. turning into ice the next day. No thanks.


----------



## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

Avery07;1394203 said:


> *I will have my worker take care of them with a shovel out of his car*. In the event I finish with commercial before he is done with rezi, I will join the rezi attack with my single stage Toro. Right now he is only booked until noon so by my math, I can easily handle another 15 or 20 rezi.
> 
> *A lot of my rezis are on steep inclines*.. truck simply can not handle that kind of angle with a plow equipped. Additionally, my truck packs the hell out of the snow on residential drives. I like doing a superior job where there is no snow on the drive when I leave. The snowblower does a perfect job at this however, the truck will leave tracks that simply can't be worked up.. turning into ice the next day. No thanks.


Do you pay him more for risking damage to his personal vehicle while working for you? Is he covered under works comp insurance and does he get a paycheck with the proper deductions withheld? Something just doesn't sound right about this.

So your "worker" has to deal with steep driveways and you're only giving him a freakin shovel? So he's suppose to break his back and bust his azz with just a shovel? He must be a idiot to go out in his own vehicle and risk damage then have to bust azz with just a shovel. Something smells fishy.


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

ALC-GregH;1394215 said:


> Do you pay him more for risking damage to his personal vehicle while working for you? Is he covered under works comp insurance and does he get a paycheck with the proper deductions withheld? Something just doesn't sound right about this.
> 
> So your "worker" has to deal with steep driveways and you're only giving him a freakin shovel? So he's suppose to break his back and bust his azz with just a shovel? He must be a idiot to go out in his own vehicle and risk damage then have to bust azz with just a shovel. Something smells fishy.


He is well compensated and is in fact the one who recommended I do things this way instead. Additionally, everything is on the up and up with workers comp, taxes, etc. I swear, you'd think it's a witch hunt out here. Sorry I was blessed with a great employee??


----------



## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

Actually this year I'm doing the same thing. I have two guys that just like to work. Last year we used to double up in the plow truck and they would get bored on the lots where no walks needed done. I was also being nice in thinking they would enjoy being in a warm truck every so often. They actually offered to take their own vehicle and be the shovel only crew. I am all for that so the plow trucks don't have to stop to shovel and salt any walks. Plus it will speed things up. My guys also know that more money in my pocket means more money in theirs.


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

All of our residentials are done by shovel, and some of my guys would rather use their own vehicles then use mine so they are compensated. To the original poster, if your guy is a hard worker, on 2-3 inch snowfalls, he should be doing 3-4 a hour quite consistently. I wonder if there is any way he could take that snow blower though, it would sure make his life easier when you guys get that bad snowfall


----------



## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

If he has a hitch , get one of those slide in carriers. Not sure what they're called.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Avery07;1394178 said:


> Well.. I've actually added on more accounts since last posting. I am up to 14 commercial and 18 residential accounts. I am currently advertising hard for new residential accounts as well =/
> 
> I got hit by the storm that rolled through the midwest a week or so back. We didn't get hard-- only 2" of accumulation or so. I still went out and serviced about 75% of my properties as many are high risk commercial or on unlimited snow removal programs (most rezis).
> 
> ...


I'm plowing and shoveling solo, my route typically takes about 6hrs to run one round. This is with our average storm of 2-6". 
Last Wednesday night we got 10" in about 5hrs and picked up another 2-3" during the day. My plow time almost doubled to make one round. Everything took longer from, pushing, stack management, shoveling and even just driving around. I left my house @ 2am and got home @6pm. 
Granted we typically don't get a big dump like this but we do get them. 
If it's taking you 12hrs to handle 2" you'll be in a world of hurt when you get a good storm.


----------



## Avery07 (Dec 8, 2011)

BUFF;1394588 said:


> I'm plowing and shoveling solo, my route typically takes about 6hrs to run one round. This is with our average storm of 2-6".
> Last Wednesday night we got 10" in about 5hrs and picked up another 2-3" during the day. My plow time almost doubled to make one round. Everything took longer from, pushing, stack management, shoveling and even just driving around. I left my house @ 2am and got home @6pm.
> Granted we typically don't get a big dump like this but we do get them.
> If it's taking you 12hrs to handle 2" you'll be in a world of hurt when you get a good storm.


We only need to look at how long it takes for commercial (7 hours) as my residential problem is now solved. I have 5 critical commercial properties and the rest can go the entire business day without seeing services. I'll be just fine with a 12" snowfall.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Avery07;1394611 said:


> We only need to look at how long it takes for commercial (7 hours) as my residential problem is now solved. I have 5 critical commercial properties and the rest can go the entire business day without seeing services. I'll be just fine with a 12" snowfall.


Ok man, you know your area's snowfall history better than the rest of us clowns.
Have a good season.....


----------



## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

Avery07;1394611 said:


> We only need to look at how long it takes for commercial (7 hours) as my residential problem is now solved. I have 5 critical commercial properties and the rest can go the entire business day without seeing services. I'll be just fine with a 12" snowfall.


Its easy to tell this is rookie hour.

You've got a lot to learn about commercial plowing. Commercials need plowed out to start their day, even if the storm is still pouring they should be ready for opening and then go back for a second run.
4 to 6 inches on a commercial lot with a lot of traffic will pack down to nothing but ice and your plow will not get that up. The ice will stay for several days creating slip and fall potential. Along with pissing off commercial customers.
Take apartment buildings where most all the plowing done is in the driving areas.... late to plowing them (after 7 am) generally will get you no plowing for that event because the snow is all packed from the traffic. Unless you have salt/sand services with them.

Unless your commercial customers are a whole new kind of DON"T GIVE A FLYING FIG about how things look I see a lot of problems in your future operations planning.

Virtually every storm we've gotten this season has plow trucks onsite at 12am and plowing thru the rest of the night. Finishing up after 8am.


----------



## NicholasMWhite (Oct 5, 2008)

Avery07;1394611 said:


> We only need to look at how long it takes for commercial (7 hours) as my residential problem is now solved. I have 5 critical commercial properties and the rest can go the entire business day without seeing services. I'll be just fine with a 12" snowfall.


Have you ever plowed 12 inches of snow with a truck? I know I haven't because I don't let it get that bad, I can say that I've plowed 8 inches, and even just 8 inches is pretty tough to do and that's before it has been driven on all day. I can't imagine trying to push 12 inches around. You will especially have problems doing that because without a V-plow you won't be able to break through with the first pass. Your truck will just slide off to one side. Your residential guy is going to fall over dead when he tries to shovel 12 inches off of 18 driveways, and you can forget about 3 driveway's per hour with a shovel when you get a substantial snowfall. You had one 2 inch storm and you think you're ready and able to take on more work because you finished in "just" 12 hours... even "just" 7 hours if your new idea works out is too long for a 2 inch storm.

No offense, but you really have no idea what you are taking on. You are just damn lucky that this year has been light so far.


----------

