# New to Bidding...Custom to Subbing



## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

I need some advice in how to price a lot like this. I am used to subbing for $75 an hour plus additional $20-$40/hr per man for sidewalks.

Before I get started, I am not a lowballer (in the lawn industry), I pay for insurance, and run a completely legit business.

Here is the deal. I met a property manager that has several properties in good locations for me. She needs the whole nine yards: snow, lawn, irrigation. So obtaining these accounts would be swell for my biz. I have never done an estimate on snow removal, I have only had subbing experience plowing commercial lots with my truck and sidewalk crew.

So I will enclose a pic of one of the lots she needs a quote on. She wants plowing, blowing of sidewalks, and ice melt applied across the entire lot and sidewalks. I personally don't think this would take me and my sidewalk crew any longer than an hour, maybe and hour and 15 min for a clean lot with melt applied. But I know I want to charge more that If i was just subbing the lot.( 75+40+ice melt) Is a $250 quote on this property for a full service a little high or right on?

It's the lot in the middle..not the big one to the left.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/map/125...,-105.13818,39.738794,-105.140156_rect/18_zm/
by the way, I am purchasing an tailgate spreader for my truck.

I also need help with any made up contracts that I could look at, so I can make my own. Thanks guys.


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## tls22 (Sep 30, 2007)

bladescape2;593543 said:


> I need some advice in how to price a lot like this. I am used to subbing for $75 an hour plus additional $20-$40/hr per man for sidewalks.
> 
> Before I get started, I am not a lowballer (in the lawn industry), I pay for insurance, and run a completely legit business.
> 
> ...


I dont know how your going to bill this, but i would say for a 2-4 inches storm around 250! Thats if im looking at the right building! I dont see many sidewalks, perhaps those are sidewalks to the left of the car. The lot looks real easy to do, i rember seeing pics from you last year. You def kno how to plow, you could rip threw that lot on 40 min i bet! Full plow and salt!


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

She wants a per-push bid. There is sidewalks along the street, and in the shaded area close to the front of the building. There is also many garage doors along the back side. I am gonna have a snowblower run across that area real close to the doors and then I'll just windrow the snow to the curb. 

Is it normal to ask property managers for the price that the contractor was doing it for last year? I would love to know that info, but I don't if that looks professional or not. what do you guys think. I need a snow removal contract. I wanna have a company plows at our discression mentioned as well in the contract..


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## Loni1113 (Sep 22, 2008)

I think we would all like to know what a property was paying the year before. THat way we could easily underbid and get every contract. Don't ask. It is very unproffesional. Just use your best judgement on your pricing. If you really want the job, bid it at 225-230 per push for a 2" minimum.


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

I'don't think it is "un professional" to ask for a number. You may or may not be able to do it for that number. I just pick up a proerty, we do another for same manager, I didn't bid it durring intial bid run. He called & personally asked me to consider it. I asked where the numbers needed to be couldn't get them there I was still over 2 K higher still got it. It comes down to realtionships too, its not always just numbers alot of times it is, but it is also trust. I'm see this more as I now am making sales calls a priority over sitting on a mower & faxing a bid in. I know where I want to be in a couple years & mowing isn't going to get me there.


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## Loni1113 (Sep 22, 2008)

I think relationships with your clients are a huge factor. I have been doing the lawn care for a property for 2 years now and she asked me if I would consider doing the snow removal also. I told her I hadn't given it much thought and she then told me what she paid the year before. But I didn't ask her for her pricing. I think you should bid your own jobs and may the lowest bid win.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Loni1113;594053 said:


> I think we would all like to know what a property was paying the year before. THat way we could easily underbid and get every contract. Don't ask. It is very unproffesional. Just use your best judgement on your pricing. If you really want the job, bid it at 225-230 per push for a 2" minimum.


I suppose is you're unable to separate yourself from others by offering experienced snow and ice management that is professional, dependable and reliable.............this is all you have to offer.



Loni1113;594080 said:


> I think relationships with your clients are a huge factor. I have been doing the lawn care for a property for 2 years now and she asked me if I would consider doing the snow removal also. I told her I hadn't given it much thought and she then told me what she paid the year before. But I didn't ask her for her pricing. I think you should bid your own jobs and may the lowest bid win.


The lowest bid should always be thrown out. Fortunately for some there are those who will ALWAYS go with the low baller.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

If you want to know where you fell simply ask where you "fell". Most managers will be honest and tell you, ya know? Ask them if you were higher or lower by percentage points. As far as contracts go, do you have a start at it at all? Do you know what you need and what you want to have included?


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## Loni1113 (Sep 22, 2008)

Well lets see. I am on a board for an H.O.A. We received bids 2 years ago from 7 companies. 6 companies came in around the same number. Then there was the other company (probably TCLA's company) who came in 4 thousand over all the others. But their clame to fame was "we have been doing this for 50 years, and we can get this job done better than anyone else". so who do you think we as a board went with? I can tell you it wasn't TCLA's company.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Loni1113;594822 said:


> Well lets see. I am on a board for an H.O.A. I knew there was something about you  We received bids 2 years ago from 7 companies. 6 companies came in around the same number. Then there was the other company (probably TCLA's company) who came in 4 thousand over all the others. But their clame to fame was "we have been doing this for 50 years, and we can get this job done better than anyone else". Outrageous claim.......only an arrogant egotist would say such a thing. so who do you think we as a board went with? I can tell you it wasn't TCLA's company.


You sound very sweet Loni. I'm confident the low bid contractor you went with performed perfectly.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

ain't that the truth. screw lowballers.


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

So I got the contract.

But in the contract it has some things I don't understand like:

B.	Schedule: Contractor shall submit a written schedule which will meet with the approval of the Manager, as Owner’s agent. Manager’s representative shall have final approving authority of the schedule. Contractor shall include the following in the schedule:

1.	Proper supervision of workers.

2.	Assurance that Conditions and Specifications of this Agreement are met.

3.	Adherence to Local, State and Federal regulations and requirements.

4.	Details of specific duties and days of performance.

5.	Manager reserves the right to audit Contractor’s actual hours worked.

E.	Emergency Phone Numbers: Contractor shall provide and maintain a current list of emergency numbers for 24-hour emergency response. The Contractor shall initiate remedial action within 2 hours from the time of notification. Should Contractor fail to respond within 2 hours, the Manager as Owner’s agent, reserves the right to take such measures as are deemed necessary to respond to the emergency, including contracting with any available contractor to resolve the emergency. Such extra billed services required to respond to the emergency in the Contractor’s failure to respond shall be billed back to the Contractor.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

which part dont you understand? the whole thing?


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

pretty much^^

For example I don't understand how I would write out supervision of employees in a schedule form?...just write on some piece of paper that I will supervise my employees?.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

That's how I interpret it. My udnerstanding is basically they want you, in written form with a signature, to state that you are solely responsible for any damages and any neglegent acts and that you will adhere to their guidelines and their specs. I deal with a customer just like yours who requests something similar to that.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

most of its filler..if you have a guy at a lot by himself just claim he is the supervisor for that site.. you cant supervise every employee


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

give me your email. I will email you over one of my contracts adn you can see if you like it.


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

I love this site...

Thanks guys.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

emailed two contract examples over to you. let me know what you think. I have all different types from mom & pop grocery stores to petsmarts and wal-marts.


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

I really like those Redman.

If you don't mind I will probably rip those off to use for myself in the future.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

It's pretty basic, however I would not agree to #5. Don't really mind giving basic and accurate site activity information (weather conditions, time on site, what was performed, frequencies, etc.) but not actuals or access to my records. Those are reserved for legal matters, not a whimsical audit on a customers part. 

Are you expected to be "on call" for them? Are you not allowed to perform at your discretion?


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

*Agreed*



TCLA;600429 said:


> It's pretty basic, however I would not agree to #5. Don't really mind giving basic and accurate site activity information (weather conditions, time on site, what was performed, frequencies, etc.) but not actuals or access to my records. Those are reserved for legal matters, not a whimsical audit on a customers part.
> 
> Are you expected to be "on call" for them? Are you not allowed to perform at your discretion?


If it was a per-push agreement, then hours do not matter. We will quote an arrival time if our performance is questioned, but not both. If it were hourly, we would send our slowest operator haha. Your experience should result in more money per job not less because you do more in an hour. They are probably just looking for some assurance that you track times in general, especially for billable extras. The on-call portion is just that, you are on-call and have two hours to basically have an operator in a truck and on his way.


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

TCLA;600429 said:


> Are you expected to be "on call" for them? Are you not allowed to perform at your discretion?


They can call me to plow @ any time, but It's in the contract that I can plow at my own discretion, 2 inch trigger, measured on site by contractor.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

go ahead. i tweak it every year because i'll find something that I should add or what not but it should definately be a good start for you. the biggest thing is covering yourself insurance and responsibility wise.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

ya if it's per trip plow then how much time you spend there shouldnt matter as long as you are getting the job done.


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