# Blizzard Clause



## JTVLandscaping

Even though March just began, I'm setting my sights on next year. This was my first year with seasonals and even though it was a big year for snow, I loved having my seasonals. In the end, I'm still making money but with the blizzards we've had, not as much as I would have liked. I've heard people mention adding blizzard clauses to their contracts. I never thought of it before. I definately would like to add something in about that next year, just looking for advice as to what it needs to say. I'm sitting here with my current contract in front of me with a blank stare. Just looking for somewhere to start. Thanks!


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## qualitycut

From what I have seen other people on here say they have something stating additional charges for lets say over 8 inches. My contracts on per push have pricing for 1-3.9 then I have an additional charge for over 4 inches. if you kept good logs you should be able to figure out your time and cost for that amount of snow. Jmo


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## Mick76

Seasonals are just that...seasonals. No "blizzard" clauses here... just figure a few PITA storms into your seasonal pricing... your happy with your figures and the customer is happy knowing there won't (and shouldn't) be any additional costs.


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## grandview

I'm with Mick,you made the deal stick with it. If you do get a 'Blizzard" get them plowed out, but don't beat your truck doing it. Then go back and sell them loader work.You will make more money that way then adding a couple of bucks to the contract.


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## mullis56

Agreed, seasonals are seasonals. They should carry you in a bad year.


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## JTVLandscaping

I'm glad I asked, because this is always what I thought. Seasonals are seasonals, sometimes you win sometimes you lose. But, I've seen people on here talking about clauses to cover extraordinary snow events. I guess I hit it good because despite the major events I'm still ahead, I was just looking for input. Thanks a ton!


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## mullis56

Have seen some seasonal contracts with a cap say 6" above average year of accumulation, with a range of snowfall 20" to 40", below a refund and above a per push price.


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## grandview

mullis56;1258259 said:


> Have seen some seasonal contracts with a cap say 6" above average year of accumulation, with a range of snowfall 20" to 40", below a refund and above a per push price.


Don't sound seasonal to me.


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## mullis56

Agree just saying seen them before


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## swtiih

JTVLandscaping;1257976 said:


> Even though March just began, I'm setting my sights on next year. This was my first year with seasonals and even though it was a big year for snow, I loved having my seasonals. In the end, I'm still making money but with the blizzards we've had, not as much as I would have liked. I've heard people mention adding blizzard clauses to their contracts. I never thought of it before. I definately would like to add something in about that next year, just looking for advice as to what it needs to say. I'm sitting here with my current contract in front of me with a blank stare. Just looking for somewhere to start. Thanks!


You can create whatever you want in your contract. Why not try it and see what happens.
Just a thought but maybe wording like any single storm over 12" will be an additional 2% extra charge on the contract. You know your accounts so you can choose how many inch and what % extra


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## snowman55

problem with seasonal is they want it priced at average snow fall. here townhomes go for $30-40 per unit. this last storm we spent 378 manhours doing walks on a property. Than is almost what is budgeted for the whole season. We have a clause that over 10" snowfalls may be billed hourly. They squak about their budget when they get bill but what about my budget. I put a bid out based on average and if I plow them 4 extra times fine but the equipment and man power for a true blizzard cannot be covered or even estimated.


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## grandview

snowman55;1258660 said:


> problem with seasonal is they want it priced at average snow fall. here townhomes go for $30-40 per unit. this last storm we spent 378 manhours doing walks on a property. Than is almost what is budgeted for the whole season. We have a clause that over 10" snowfalls may be billed hourly. They squak about their budget when they get bill but what about my budget. I put a bid out based on average and if I plow them 4 extra times fine but the equipment and man power for a true blizzard cannot be covered or even estimated.


In this case can't you do seasonal on the plowing and hourly on the walks ?


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## NW Snow Removal

It's good to have a blizzard clause to allow for additional loader work upon request for hauling, relocating, or stacking snow.


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## grandview

In 2001 we had 7 feet of snow in 5 days no one called it a blizzard it was just called a snow storm and you went out and plowed it. No extra cost or anything for it. After that a few places called to push back the piles wasn't that big of a deal.


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## NW Snow Removal

whats the average snowfall up there grandview? the clause has effectiveness in areas with around or less than 60 inches average.


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## grandview

This year we just made avg of our 100 inches.


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## snobgone

Seasonal contracts can be designed any way you want if the customer understands them and the potential risks. You can have seasonal average contracts that cover up to x inches then its converts to per push after that (as someone mentioned). There can be a floor minumum too that way if the season is way below average the customer does not feel banged up over it. To cover yourself for excessive snow, relocation or removal of snow can be billable too. We offer multiple variaions of seasonal contracts and let our customers choose what is best for them and their budget. Ultimatlely, it is good to have a mix of per push and seasonal so no matter what the season brings, you do ok.


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## got-h2o

grandview;1258263 said:


> Don't sound seasonal to me.





grandview;1258058 said:


> I'm with Mick,you made the deal stick with it. If you do get a 'Blizzard" get them plowed out, but don't beat your truck doing it. *Then go back and sell them loader work.You will make more money that way then adding a couple of bucks to the contract*.


Neither does that


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## JTVLandscaping

grandview;1259928 said:


> In 2001 we had 7 feet of snow in 5 days no one called it a blizzard it was just called a snow storm and you went out and plowed it. No extra cost or anything for it. After that a few places called to push back the piles wasn't that big of a deal.


 IRONMAN


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## grandview

got-h2o;1260274 said:


> Neither does that


I think i know what I mean ,just not sure of your reply .


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## got-h2o

grandview;1260387 said:


> I think i know what I mean ,just not sure of your reply .


Just splitting hairs. If seasonal is seasonal, no clauses needed.........therefore no charging for additional loader work. It would be work included in the blizzard that would be included under a strictly "seasonal" contract.


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## CGM Inc.

So if you have a "blizzard clause" in your contract would you also add a "below seasonal discount"? Everyone that understands snow has to look at a 3-5 year average not just as a singel year.


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## got-h2o

Cedar Grounds;1260456 said:


> So if you have a "blizzard clause" in your contract would you also add a "below seasonal discount"? Everyone that understands snow has to look at a 3-5 year average not just as a singel year.


A blizzard clause typically would benifit customer. Meaning they pay for the blizzard separately and then go back on normal terms. If a contract is 40" and a blizzard brings 23", they have the option to pay for the services of the blizzard only and go back as if it never happened. If they didn't it would put them closer to the cap in a minimal amount of time and wind up costing them possibly more once the cap is exhausted, which it inevitably would at those numbers.

And for the record, those are exact numbers that I'm dealing with right now.


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## CGM Inc.

got-h2o;1260470 said:


> A blizzard clause typically would benifit customer. Meaning they pay for the blizzard separately and then go back on normal terms. If a contract is 40" and a blizzard brings 23", they have the option to pay for the services of the blizzard only and go back as if it never happened. If they didn't it would put them closer to the cap in a minimal amount of time and wind up costing them possibly more once the cap is exhausted, which it inevitably would at those numbers.
> 
> And for the record, those are exact numbers that I'm dealing with right now.


I see, I would guess it is a reason to charge more as the contractor 
We don't have minimums or maximums in our contracts or any ways to charge for large accumulations. Relocates are extra, rest is all in and averages out over years. Last 2 winters we plowed 6 times if I remember correctly, this winter we are at # 14 in average 10-12 plows for us.


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## got-h2o

Cedar Grounds;1260509 said:


> I see, I would guess it is a reason to charge more as the contractor
> We don't have minimums or maximums in our contracts or any ways to charge for large accumulations. Relocates are extra, rest is all in and averages out over years. Last 2 winters we plowed 6 times if I remember correctly, this winter we are at # 14 in average 10-12 plows for us.


Right on. And don't me wrong, it benifits us too, but its not as if we are ripping them off by doing so. It's actually quite a good selling point during negotiation.


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## CGM Inc.

got-h2o;1260539 said:


> Right on. And don't me wrong, it benifits us too, but its not as if we are ripping them off by doing so. It's actually quite a good selling point during negotiation.


All good  it is a interesting topic for sure but I don't think we would get away with it. Our snow totals are also not that significant 60" - 70" is what we get on average.


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## grandview

Only loader work I charge for is if they call and request it. I don't tell them it's snowing to hard or deep that I need to charge them extra for a loader.


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## NJlandscaper908

What you could do is since you have seasonals say it's X amount per month or whatever which is based off pervious years averaged together then say anything over the average will be an additional amount of X per inch/hr/push whatever.


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## blowerman

Mick76;1258054 said:


> Seasonals are just that...seasonals. No "blizzard" clauses here... just figure a few PITA storms into your seasonal pricing... your happy with your figures and the customer is happy knowing there won't (and shouldn't) be any additional costs.


This is how I view a seasonal and I'm in the snow business to make money. 
Reality is, how does your customer want the contract and what are you comfortable with? Too much wording and add ons, the customer might not like that. Feel them out, sell what works for both of you.


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## snocrete

In a seasonal contract that has a 2 inch trigger depth(and no salting).....does anyone have a charge for if they want it cleared on lesser mounts through the season? Is drift cleanup included in your seasonals? Thanks.


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## CGM Inc.

No salting clients are a problem since you end up plowing them more often! We price them a little richer since you plow them more often.
Drifts are all included with us, how can you charge for drifts extra


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## snocrete

Cedar Grounds;1260979 said:


> No salting clients are a problem since you end up plowing them more often! We price them a little richer since you plow them more often.
> Drifts are all included with us, how can you charge for drifts extra


I dont know, thats why I asked. Thanks.

Seasonal snow accounts are almost unheard of around here, unless your working for a big national (I dont). I have some accounts that I am considering offering a seasonal price to, for next season, and just trying to see how others bid em.

But 1 of my questions I still have.....what if you have a 2in trigger depth, but they call you and want you to come scrape off 1.5 inches? Do you put something in the contract stating requests for plowing/shoveling snow at less than the agreed trigger depth a charge of X amount per hr/trip?


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## got-h2o

It would be VERY rare to have a seasonal account with a trigger amount, at least that's been my experience so far. You are contracted to keep it clear. Zero tolerance. Plow when you need to and salt when you need to. I think something like a 2" trigger would be a huge headache. You know how it goes with per push accounts when it's borderline, I couldn't imagine dealing with seasonals under those terms. At that point you may as well not even call it a seasonal contract.

The only thing you may see is a trigger amount for when to be present. One of my seasonals requires us to be there at 1/4", but we're typically onsite before it would reach that point.........if they're open that is.

I think you may be overlooking the amount of $$ involved in seasonal accounts. You don't question it when it starts snowing, you just do it. That's what you're paid for. And don't get me wrong, you're asking legitimate questions, I'm not trying to be offensive. I also think you'd be surprised how many accounts near you are seasonal. Most larger places are, especially coorporate ones. If they have a home office elsewhere, 9 times out of 10 they are probably seasonal.


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## blowerman

Seasonal accounts with a 2" trigger is tough. You are better to just assume on keeping it bare after every snow event. I have one wiyh a seasonal and the guy said "don't bother if it's under an inch" however during January it snowed minimal amounts every other day. I kept it clear every time and in turn he was happy.


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## got-h2o

grandview;1260627 said:


> Only loader work I charge for is if they call and request it. I don't tell them it's snowing to hard or deep that I need to charge them extra for a loader.


Roger that


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## snocrete

got-h2o;1261261 said:


> It would be VERY rare to have a seasonal account with a trigger amount, at least that's been my experience so far. You are contracted to keep it clear. Zero tolerance. Plow when you need to and salt when you need to. I think something like a 2" trigger would be a huge headache. You know how it goes with per push accounts when it's borderline, I couldn't imagine dealing with seasonals under those terms. At that point you may as well not even call it a seasonal contract.
> 
> The only thing you may see is a trigger amount for when to be present. One of my seasonals requires us to be there at 1/4", but we're typically onsite before it would reach that point.........if they're open that is.
> 
> I think you may be overlooking the amount of $$ involved in seasonal accounts. You don't question it when it starts snowing, you just do it. That's what you're paid for. And don't get me wrong, you're asking legitimate questions, I'm not trying to be offensive. I also think you'd be surprised how many accounts near you are seasonal. Most larger places are, especially coorporate ones. If they have a home office elsewhere, 9 times out of 10 they are probably seasonal.





blowerman;1261268 said:


> Seasonal accounts with a 2" trigger is tough. You are better to just assume on keeping it bare after every snow event. I have one wiyh a seasonal and the guy said "don't bother if it's under an inch" however during January it snowed minimal amounts every other day. I kept it clear every time and in turn he was happy.


Thank you both. I was thinking I might get this response, but needed to actually hear it I guess..... 
I have never done a seasonal account, and want to try and sell a few accounts on one for next season.....but I'm thinking that the accounts that I should try and sell one to, are different ones than what I was originally thinking. Thanks again.


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## JTVLandscaping

2" triggers on my seasonals is real tough for me. They don't want to pay if its less and then they want it perfect. I really can't remember when the last time I would consider pre-salting before this year, and we've had a few where it would've been ideal, but with a 2" trigger, I can't go drop material for free...I didn't price it for all those under 2" storms. Next year I'm gonna tell them zero tolerance, this 2+" B.S. is making me look bad.


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## grandview

Didn't anyone tell you zero tolerance is different from seasonal contracts?


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