# What would you charge for this small commercial lot



## LabradorLawns (Sep 18, 2015)

Hello new to plowing and have the chance to bid on a family friends office building. The size of the lot being plowed is roughly 9000 sq feet with about 300 feet of sidewalk lining the perimeter. Would be plowing with an F150. Also this is in a suburb of Philadelphia.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.as...xPSUyMDI2NjAlMjB3ZXN0JTIwY2hlc3RlciUyMHBpa2U=


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

$20 and a case of Hamms


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## LabradorLawns (Sep 18, 2015)

Knew their would be some jokers. love the Hamms idea though.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Umm, the link shows up in Zeeland, MI for me. 


Suburb of Phillie means it would be at least 10x what I would charge.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

LabradorLawns;2027746 said:


> Hello new to plowing and have the chance to bid on a family friends office building. The size of the lot being plowed is roughly 9000 sq feet with about 300 feet of sidewalk lining the perimeter. Would be plowing with an F150. Also this is in a suburb of Philadelphia.


broken record time,
do you have the proper insurance?
(commercial vehicle)
what does it cost you a hr to operate your truck?
how much snow can you clear in 1hr.
do you have a back up plan for when your truck breaks down.
salt? how much an ac?
what are you going to do when a blizzard hits?

so you tell me how mush will it cost YOU to clear this lot,
& what about the sidewalks?
what are your cost to clear them, shovel, snowblower, cost to operate and your time.....

Were not here to do your numbers for you, as they are different for everyone.

ps, your going to need a bigger truck.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SnoFarmer;2027795 said:


> broken record time,
> do you have the proper insurance?
> (commercial vehicle)
> what does it cost you a hr to operate your truck?
> ...


So how much?


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

he's asking for help/advice on bidding...so, how about some helpful tips on what/how to bid it? if not, you really don't need to respond, right?

thanks


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Michael J. Donovan;2027809 said:


> he's asking for help/advice on bidding...so, how about some helpful tips on what/how to bid it? if not, you really don't need to respond, right?
> 
> thanks


Hey MJD I have a request that might help in some cases similar to this. I have seen lately that most new people posting don't have a location down on their sign in line as to where they are from. Is there a way you can make that mandatory. It would especially help when people are asking for seasonal pricing so we have an idea of how much snow they get. City and State should be mandatory because even here in Michigan snow depths can change a lot from City to City.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;2027807 said:


> So how much?





Michael J. Donovan;2027809 said:


> he's asking for help/advice on bidding...so, how about some helpful tips on what/how to bid it? if not, you really don't need to respond, right?
> 
> thanks


How would we know without knowing what his cost of operating is?

Why do i need to do his homework?
My or your numbers could be wrong, is not applicable to his "demographic" or situation.

how efficient is he at moving snow?

so as you see to give him a number is more of a crap shoot than playing craps.

How would that help him?

Most of thees posts are fishing expeditions by newbiees to the industry who have no clue what just one of their costs are, they come running to us so we can do their home work...
The OP has to sit down and do some homework just like the rest of us have and do every year.....

Try a business class at your local school.

How much? 
How much does he need to make?
Only he can tell us that.

is it per-push?
incremental?
seasonal?


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

LapeerLandscape;2027814 said:


> Hey MJD I have a request that might help in some cases similar to this. I have seen lately that most new people posting don't have a location down on their sign in line as to where they are from. Is there a way you can make that mandatory. It would especially help when people are asking for seasonal pricing so we have an idea of how much snow they get. City and State should be mandatory because even here in Michigan snow depths can change a lot from City to City.


it was required at registration in the past but was decided upon to not require that any longer, so we removed that...may be something we should add again.

let's not get too off track ad derail this member's thread, but thanks for the suggestion :waving:


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

LapeerLandscape;2027814 said:


> Hey MJD I have a request that might help in some cases similar to this. I have seen lately that most new people posting don't have a location down on their sign in line as to where they are from. Is there a way you can make that mandatory. It would especially help when people are asking for seasonal pricing so we have an idea of how much snow they get. City and State should be mandatory because even here in Michigan snow depths can change a lot from City to City.


like their street address?
What stops them from not giving their real location?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Michael J. Donovan;2027817 said:


> it was required at registration in the past but was decided upon to not require that any longer, so we removed that...may be something we should add again.
> 
> let's not get too off track ad derail this member's thread, but thanks for the suggestion :waving:


I would like to see it back. For all we know this person (maybe not this o.p. but maybe others) are outta state nationals fishing for answers.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

ok, fellas, I understand everyone's point of view, however, all I was saying was you can lend some helpful advice, ask relevant questions OR, not even respond to the thread, rather than responding just to give the guy trouble, or post a non-relevant response 

thanks :waving:


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

SnoFarmer;2027818 said:


> like their street address?
> What stops them from not giving their real location?


Even just a general area of their location would give us a much better idea of how much snow they get and possibly how efficient they are at plowing. Chances are a guy that gets 100 plus inches a year would be more efficient then someone that gets 20 inches a year, that may not always be the case but I would hope so.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

LapeerLandscape;2027825 said:


> Even just a general area of their location would give us a much better idea of how much snow they get and possibly how efficient they are at plowing. Chances are a guy that gets 100 plus inches a year would be more efficient then someone that gets 20 inches a year, that may not always be the case but I would hope so.


yes, i agree their location does make a big difference.
Not giving your location, avg snow events, snow totals, equipment being used, experience, costs, fees lic, etc etc is like asking for help fixing your truck with out giving the make, model and year.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

my bid is 200lbs of unicorn meat.
and it will take less than a hr.


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## lawninc (Sep 18, 2010)

If you are going to be in business you need to think business! Like everyone mentioned you need to know your costs, your market and what you'd like to net. All I can tell you is study your market and asses the properties you have accordingly. Come up with a formula per square foot for your push price as well as for your ice melt. Come up with a multiplier that you can use for all of your bids and adjust accordingly.


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## slave2lawns (Oct 9, 2008)

Don't given in to the haters. I thought this site was to help people. Anyway...you DONT need a bigger truck...you do need to get some #'s together. We have been doing this for over 20yrs unfortunately all we do is apartment complexes so Im not sure if my formula would help u. I'm assuming ur a sole. Get ur #'s together like how long its gonna take u, fuel for that time in the truck,blowers etc. Insurance is a tough 1, we are in NY & PA so our rates vary big time. HOWEVER, dont divide your total insurance cost on that 1 job like I see many people do unless its your only job. Anyway thats my 2 cents.


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

slave2lawns;2031717 said:


> I'm assuming ur a sole.


What makes you assume he's a fish?


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

The easiest way to figure out a bid is do it based on time.

The cost of operating -(gives you your base price to break even.)

So let's say you figure it out and you need to make $75 an hour to break even plowing. 

To make money you would double it to $150 an hour.

Say that place takes you 2 hours to plow, you charge $300.00 to start at the trigger.

2-3 $300
4-6 $400
5-7 $500

And so on for every 2-3 inches.

Do the same for sidewalks.

If your sanding whatever your cost is in product to sand times 2.

Add it all together for your final price.

Now having said that, you have to know your market and the prices.
You may not be able to double your prices if the market doesn't pay that.
You might be able only able to increase it by $25 dollar and only charge $100 an hour.

Remember your making money doing plowing, sidewalks, and sanding so factor that all in and increase or decrease the plowing price to make your goal of $ per hour.

Side note: 
You will get away with small storms with your truck. 
But if you get hit with a big one, your going to find pushing that much snow very hard and time consuming.


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## slave2lawns (Oct 9, 2008)

Sawboy;2031738 said:


> What makes you assume he's a fish?


What, fish can't plow ?

Mssplowing's formula should put you right on track. Well said Mssplowing.

On a side not -I'm not sure how far away you are from Bensalem and the Levittown area in Bucks county. There's a guy with a black older Ford Explorer (4 door ) thats been plow & using his vehicle for landscaping for a past fews yrs now ( good for him ). We noticed that he's doing small lots like Mcd's & Pizza Hut. You also have a company with a small fleet of Ford Rangers plowing. We only saw 4 of their trucks last year plowing & towing small trailers this year. If they can do it & figure out the #'s then you should have no problem doing it .


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

*Bidding*



slave2lawns;2031717 said:


> Don't given in to the haters. I thought this site was to help people. Anyway...you DONT need a bigger truck...you do need to get some #'s together. We have been doing this for over 20yrs unfortunately all we do is apartment complexes so Im not sure if my formula would help u. I'm assuming ur a sole. Get ur #'s together like how long its gonna take u, fuel for that time in the truck,blowers etc. Insurance is a tough 1, we are in NY & PA so our rates vary big time. HOWEVER, dont divide your total insurance cost on that 1 job like I see many people do unless its your only job. Anyway thats my 2 cents.


Yes and in NY the workman's comp. You have to carry or you will have no work. 
all the commercial jobs require WC in my area. For sure if your going to have loaders and skid steers. You might find a small gas station that won't ask for WC if your using a pickup.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

Its 9000 ft sq. really should be an easy bid. He's your buddy? Ask him what he will pay you? Should be no more than a half hour to plow and shovel. You need help to figure out what a half your of your time is worth?

I am expensive I would bid - 250#'s of unicorn meat, and an ounce of fairy dust.


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## slave2lawns (Oct 9, 2008)

That is so true Fred G. In NY & PA we have to carry Workmans Comp. Our insurance has a $5mil umbrella on it on top of our reg coverage. You don't necessarily need it. Some of the developments that we bid on do require it though...I cant see gas stations asking you for any of that. Then again gas stations just isn't our thing. Anyway, good luck. I hope you do well and always be great !


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

slave2lawns;2032701 said:


> That is so true Fred G. In NY & PA we have to carry Workmans Comp. Our insurance has a $5mil umbrella on it on top of our reg coverage. You don't necessarily need it. Some of the developments that we bid on do require it though...I cant see gas stations asking you for any of that. Then again gas stations just isn't our thing. Anyway, good luck. I hope you do well and always be great !


I have no umbrella, What would that cover? In the case you don't show and pay the other Contractor? I heard some places are starting to ask for it,

Best of luck


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

LabradorLawns;2027746 said:


> Hello new to plowing and have the chance to bid on a family friends office building. The size of the lot being plowed is roughly 9000 sq feet with about 300 feet of sidewalk lining the perimeter. Would be plowing with an F150. Also this is in a suburb of Philadelphia.
> 
> http://www.bing.com/maps/default.as...xPSUyMDI2NjAlMjB3ZXN0JTIwY2hlc3RlciUyMHBpa2U=


You say the property belongs to a family friend. See if they will give you some idea what the other guy was charging. Do your numbers from there. I would not say you need a heavier truck at this point. You may find out you do after the repairs that may occur. There is a lot of stress on that front end hauling that plow around. Don't be scared go for it you will learn from there. Get your feet wet... Good luck


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

FredG;2036212 said:


> I have no umbrella, What would that cover? In the case you don't show and pay the other Contractor? I heard some places are starting to ask for it,
> 
> Best of luck


An additional umbrella policy is one where you add coverage on a existing policy.

So say you are doing landscaping work and already have a GL policy in effect. 
You would add a umbrella policy to your existing policy in whatever amount is needed for snow plowing.

Standard is a 1 mill / 2 mill GL for snow plowing

Some places might require you to get higher amounts for a GL policy.

Those policy's are for slip and falls.

And you would want an additional coverage on your truck insurance of at least 500k, more if you have a lot of assets.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

MSsnowplowing;2036226 said:


> An additional umbrella policy is one where you add coverage on a existing policy.
> 
> So say you are doing landscaping work and already have a GL policy in effect.
> You would add a umbrella policy to your existing policy in whatever amount is needed for snow plowing.
> ...


Ok Got ya, I have this covered and added to my 3 mill GL. Most around here only require 1 mill GL and completed snow operation added to policy.


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