# Hoa



## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

I want to know what other people would bid this place at. we got our number just trying to compare. once I see what everyone is at ill say what they actually been paying.

this is a 48 home HOA which includes all driveways, sidewalks, parking areas and of course roads. quite a bit of shovel work around the sidewalks going to the driveways and around the garages. 1 skid steer with a plow or pusher and an operator. skid steer can clear 90% of the driveway. 4 sidewalk guys, 2 blowers and a few shovels. bulk salt on driveways, parking and road, calcium chloride on the walks. 4 mail boxes and 5 fire hydrants. truck will come by from time to time to check on things and help if needed otherwise just salt or fuel the skid.

110,306 sq ft, all pavement (driveways, parking and road)
18,802 sq ft in side walks

this picture was taken in 2013, all the buildings on the right are completely done driveways and all. unfortunately google earth wont let me go to street view or else I would show all the shovel work needing to be done.

also this area averages around 38" and I believe an average of 15 events.
thanks


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

for got to add needs to include a price for sweeping come spring time


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## B-2 Lawncare (Feb 11, 2012)

5000 a month.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

how many hours u think and how much material are u basing it upon 
Do you have to go back next day for driveway not cleared due to cars


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## FISHERBOY (Aug 13, 2007)

do they want seasonal , per push, or per inch, whats the trigger to start plowing, maybe you can sign them to a multi year deal, sell some seal coating to (say pennies now or thousands later) You really gotta crunch the numbers with this one. But over all seems like a nice job to have


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

ponyboy;2017896 said:


> how many hours u think and how much material are u basing it upon
> Do you have to go back next day for driveway not cleared due to cars


hours to complete the job, no clue. if I had to guess with 2-4 inches maybe 2-3 hours. clearing the road will take no time, clearing majority of the driveway with the machine maybe 30mins to an hour. most time consuming part is the shoveling, maybe 10-15mins per building, maybe 30-45mins on the big stretch of sidewalks with blowers, longer with just shovels.
we base guys on 100 hours a season.
just straight salt for everything including sidewalks I figured 2 yards per storm no pretreat. so around 30-40 tons in the season give or take. I never figured out the calcium chloride.
im pretty sure you would have to go back to clean up where cars were parked (driveways or parking). even tho a site we did last year with all the driveways we just had the shovel guys shovel around the cars, this way we only needed to clean up the parking areas


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

FISHERBOY;2017899 said:


> do they want seasonal , per push, or per inch, whats the trigger to start plowing, maybe you can sign them to a multi year deal, sell some seal coating to (say pennies now or thousands later) You really gotta crunch the numbers with this one. But over all seems like a nice job to have


seasonal, they never said a trigger but we mainly start plowing at 2 inches and work throughout the storm...as far as sealing goes that wont be for a while, their still building and the top coat of blacktop isn't there.

so forgot to mention that whatever drains there is, is sticking up but there all along the curb, 2 or 3 man hole covers are sticking up in the middle of the road and the curb between the driveways and road is higher.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Based upon your numbers 
4 shovelers $40 an hour $16000
Skid $15,000
40 tons salt $10000
Calcium $7000
Operator $4500
Truck w salter just salt and clean up $6000
Those are my # based upon 100 hours


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

thank you ponyboy. you pay shovelers $40 an hour??? are you hiring??? lol


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

No $20 I bill out $40
Operators get $35 I bill out $55


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

With the truck pt it's hard so those are #
When I bid I based upon 10 storms under 10 inches in my contracts 
1 inch gets salt only anything over gets plowed and a salting counts as a plow in contract to help even out the bigger storms over 6 inches 
And over 10 inches I count as 1 storm and bill extra per inch over 10.1 inches and if out of contract because they went over 10 storms it's that same pre determined amount per site for total snow fall accumulation 
Some how it works for me and my customers


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

so we told the property manager $34k for the season. 
ill break it down.
4 shovelers at $15 an hour + $10 to make something off of them at 100 hours = $10,000
2 operators (skid and truck) at $20 an hour + the $10 at 100 hours = $6,000
rental of a track skid steer is $1,800 a month + 5 months = $9,000
35 tons of salt at what we was paying at the end of last year $185 = $6,475
so that totals to $31,475 then the difference my father added to it for odds and ends.
now the 35 tons of salt included the sidewalks so the difference in what we would actually need should hopefully cover the calcium, again idk I never calculated calcium pellets before. also if we get cheaper salt that'll help out


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

I can't find shovlers for $15 any more nor drivers at $20 also no cat told me $2200 a month for a 650 cat was $1600 a month 50 hours a month and $31 an hour over 200 hours 
Why track we only run tire 
Where is your profit and your over head 
Also fuel which is over head


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Calcium is around $15 a bag central irragation sells treated rock salt mixed with Calcium $9 a bag 
I haven't had any issues any where with that 
Also you should be $100-$110 for salt delivered 
Did you call CM today


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Can't you guess on my condo bid


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

well there wont be any profit period after what they told us they been paying.

$17k!!!

now that's ridiculous, now she wants us to go lower some how. only way we can match that price is with just a truck/driver and 1 shoveler. 

a local tool rental sent me the contract/quote for a CAT 257 TRACK SKID STEER LOADER, $1800 every 4 weeks and $35/hour over 200 hours. I prefer track, I ran tire skids and it was ok at times..all depending on the conditions I guess..they said the tire skid was around $1250 per month last year, which is a smaller machine I believe.

no I haven't called yet I was travel to Chicago today for a little vacation...well its for my parents 25th anniversary but a vacation to me lol


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

So I guess my bid is out 
Last year were all building occupied and did it just wait till storm is over


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

I have no clue who did it, what they used or how they did it. She asked us 6 questions.

1 how is the price calculated?
2 what is the most difficult part of the job?
3 how can the cost be reduced-what are your suggestions?
4 how will the snow be removed from the sidewalks-shovel or snow blower?
5 what type of ice melt will be used on the walkways?
6 what type of ice melt will be used on the roads?

I answered them the best I could and sent to my dad, up to him what he wants to do


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Not owning a skid, and doing walks by hand/blowers is what's killing you. At least in my opinion. I still can't figure out how people are able to win bids and make any money renting machines. 

Here's my numbers on hours for work, apply your hourly rate to each one. 2-4 inches of snow.
Plowing: 2 hours (.75 hour truck, 1.25 skid)
Walks 2 hours (Ventrac with broom/blower depending on snow) or 2 hours (with 2 walk behind blowers)
Salt 1750 pounds
Calcium 350 pounds

I'd figure an hour per storm of recall cleanup.

If it were here I'd do it for 17K.


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

Well even if we didn't need a skid we'll still be over 17k. Alot of companies around here rent skids. Ventrac would be nice but we have no use for them in the summer and could only be used on the main walks still need blowers and shovels around the building walks and garages


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

We own 4 skids and a wheel loader but still need to make money on things 
Think your area is just cheaper then ours


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

ponyboy;2018069 said:


> Think your area is just cheaper then ours


For sure. It's amazing the difference for what, 6 hours apart?


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

So my question is how do you grow and get more accounts and machines if you don't charge for them 
This industry is getting harder and harder to make money 
So even on my accounts I charge if they request machines stay on site even machines I own


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

Ain't that the truth. A site we've done for the past 4 years, they called for a price again we told them the same as last year. We haven't heard anything yet. In the spring we did some blacktop work for them and we noticed a different landscape company mowing and found out who it was. Their a local company who have alot of equipment (trucks mowers and trailers) maybe a few skids, 1 or 2 loaders. They do things so damn cheap so we have a feeling their gonna take that site for snow. And if they do I guarantee the management will be crawling back. They make so much mess when it comes to snow.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

ponyboy;2018127 said:


> So my question is how do you grow and get more accounts and machines if you don't charge for them
> This industry is getting harder and harder to make money
> So even on my accounts I charge if they request machines stay on site even machines I own


We do charge for the machines that are on site. We own (or lease at insanely low payments) our equipment, so our cost per hour of operation for said equipment is 50% of rental. Our machines sit on seasonal sites, so they're paying no matter what the weather does. They also help on the minimal per push stuff we have, along with trucks. Seasonal pays for the equipment, and it just earns bonuses on per push, further paying to expand the fleet.

Our cost per hour on a rental skid at let's say 1650 per month x 5 months at 100 hours per month is 16.50 per hour, plus labor and fuel. Our cost per hour on machines that we own for the machine and maintenance and repair cost is under 10.00. Our lease machines are half of that. Plus labor and fuel of course. As long as I can continue to lease 2K ROC C/H/A 2 speed Cats at 349 per month, I'll never own another machine.

100% agreed it's getting harder and harder to make money. Efficiency and quality is what it takes. Just the change in profits from 5 years ago to now is somewhat shocking. But still, the margins in snow removal (at least for us) pay to expand the snow business much faster than the lawn maintenance, and a little bit faster than the new install business. 98% of our accounts are seasonal, which in my opinion helps to expand a little faster because you've got money to work with, no matter what the weather does.

We also don't have the stupid high insurance costs you do, either.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

I spoke with my cat how are u at $300 a month I would rent 5 
Please pm the info my cat want $1600 a month and bobcat want $2200 a month for 4 months


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

ponyboy;2018181 said:


> I spoke with my cat how are u at $300 a month I would rent 5
> Please pm the info my cat want $1600 a month and bobcat want $2200 a month for 4 months


Those are lease payments, not winter rentals. Through Ohio Cat. 242D, cab heat and air, 2 speed. 500 hours per year, whatever term you want, 1-5 years. Cat skids are far from my favorite, but for that kinda price I don't care.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

I will double check that 
I was going to lease full yeAr unlimited hours but don't need unlimited hours so thanks


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I'm not sure if they do anything new out of the state of OH. Let me know what you figure out.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Monday I will call but I'm pretty sure a 300 skid is open cab singel speed but now I never thought about limted hours I won't use 500 in snow


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

Talk about things being expensive, I can't imagine leaving here in Chicago with all these high prices, god damn


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