# GVWR and over weight



## QuadPlower

In Michigan I pay for a 24,000 elected gross vehicle plate for most of my trucks. The one I'm concerned about has a GVW of 19,500. I just got a Switch-N-Go dump system for it. It put my actual weight at 12,000. I can haul 7,500 in the bed which is fine. 

What happens if I put 9,000 in and get pulled over. I'm still under the weight that I'm paying a license tag for, but over the GVW. If I want to ruin my truck, it should be my right. 

Question: Do I get a ticket?


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## mvhauler

Years ago I got pulled over hauling dirt. Dirt was wet, I knew I was kinda heavy. He said I was very close on my axles, but was over on tire rating. Got a ticket for that. He said haul less or get other tires, I got better tires. I would have to say you would probably get a ticket. GVW is the max SAFE weight the manufacturor has set for that vehicle. If exceeded it would be unsafe on a public roadway. I know where you are coming from, though. Hope this helps.


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## RLM

More than likely you'll get a ticket (& an expensive one at that). In NY it's $ 1/pound overweight. We had a sheriff pull over our 2500 HD, with a plow on & 2 yd salter, to his disapointment the salter was empty, of course he found somthing else. My brother hadn't pulled the wings off, measured at 9'-2", legal is 8'-6", he said 9' & he lets slide. $250 ticket, funny thing the permit for over width is the same $ 250. I'm sure he was looking for a full salter & just PO'd. He was litterally going 1/4 mile to grab fuel because the light had turned on while plowing a lot. My calculations with that truck is it could've been at least a $ 2000 ticket if it was fully loaded. We have since bought a 3500 duelly & switched the salter. That truck was bought at the last minute when we picked up 3 acres worth the lots & only had a tailgate salter, in November. Still have the truck, it works great, & hauled the weight fine, stoped fine (new truck at the time), but leagally no.


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## cretebaby

I stopped at the local weight station the other day to ask a few questions. I was asking about my F350 w/14k GN, asked how heavy I could load it. They told me as long as I was licensed heavy enough and obeyed bridge law I was good to go

They made the comment that they were not going to go out and look for my axle ratings

Not sure that I trust that though


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## QuadPlower

Two NO's and a YES.

The problem is I agree with ALL the statements. All three of the above could be right.

Any body else have an Official (or just comments) statement.


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## Mike N

RLM;780717 said:


> More than likely you'll get a ticket (& an expensive one at that). In NY it's $ 1/pound overweight. We had a sheriff pull over our 2500 HD, with a plow on & 2 yd salter, to his disapointment the salter was empty, of course he found somthing else. My brother hadn't pulled the wings off, measured at 9'-2", legal is 8'-6", he said 9' & he lets slide. $250 ticket, funny thing the permit for over width is the same $ 250. I'm sure he was looking for a full salter & just PO'd. He was litterally going 1/4 mile to grab fuel because the light had turned on while plowing a lot. My calculations with that truck is it could've been at least a $ 2000 ticket if it was fully loaded. We have since bought a 3500 duelly & switched the salter. That truck was bought at the last minute when we picked up 3 acres worth the lots & only had a tailgate salter, in November. Still have the truck, it works great, & hauled the weight fine, stoped fine (new truck at the time), but leagally no.


Monroe County Sheriff's are that bored?


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## RLM

Apartently, yes the commercial enforcement guy are (van). My brother was plowing the OTB on W. Ridge & ran to Hess. I live in the Hilton/Hamlin are & never have any issues with the, get into Greece....thats another story (Greece cops though, I ussally get to go see the DA once a year, for stupid stuff).


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## Mike N

RLM;780885 said:


> Apartently, yes the commercial enforcement guy are (van). My brother was plowing the OTB on W. Ridge & ran to Hess. I live in the Hilton/Hamlin are & never have any issues with the, get into Greece....thats another story (Greece cops though, I ussally get to go see the DA once a year, for stupid stuff).


I live in Spencerport, home of bored cops.


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## T-MAN

The ex dot officer I know said he went by plate, and most he knew did too.
Thats usually were the big tickets come in, because your over weight on your plate. Or not plated for freight etc.
I run D plates on my 2500.


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## brp8644

in new york state they use the lowest of the two even if you pay for 24000 you would only be allowed to scale out at 19500 in your case. New york is strict though and your state might allow you to haul what you pay for no matter what your are actually rated for. In my opinion you being 2500 over on a 19500 gvw is like throwing a bucket of water into the grand canyon


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## pmorrissette

You are exposing yourself to a ticket. The law states (in most States & Canada) something like "no vehicle shall ever exceed the manufaturer's designed GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). The logic is that if the vehicle is beyond designed weight, it is more likely to suffer a mechanical failure that could endanger the driving public.


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## QuadPlower

UPDATE
My employee was driving my Nissan UD-2000 with a wood chipper behind it. I was following in my Dodge 1500. We were driving from my house to another town to do some chipping. We took US-131 and were doing the posted speed limit of 55. As we drove by a Wendy's I saw the State Trooper (Vehicle Enforcement Unit) parked there. We were both on the CB and I told him to go through the yellow at the next light. I saw the officer pull out, but didn't see him make the light. Closer to town we when through another yellow, so did the officer that caught up to us rather qucikly with his lights on. We pulled into a gas station that we normally get fuel at. So did the officer. I parked my truck and walked over to my other truck and the officer.

He said he pulled us over for not having the US in the USDOT # sticker on the side of my truck. I didn't believe him because there was no way he saw 3" letters from 100 yards away going 55 mph.

Long story short, I got a warning for no US letters, no vehicle inspection sticker, and my driver didn't have his DOT Medical card on him.

Good news is while he was writing it up, I asked him several questions that have been posted on Plow Site. Here are the results.

I pay for a 24,000 pound plate and my truck is 19,500 GVWR. He said I could scale out at 24k because that is what I pay for. I could get a 26k plate and scale out at 26k if I really wanted to ruin my truck.

He based it on the axle rating and since that could not be read on the plate on the door, he went by the tire rating. The front ones are rated at 4,000 pounds so the front axle can have 8,000 on it. The back can have 16,000 on it because of the dually 4,000 pound tires. So I can leagally scale out at 24k because my tires can handle it and I pay for that much on the plate.

He also said that you don't have to have a Chauffers license as a landscaper/snow plow operator. Chauffers license are for delivery vehicles. In MI it is a 19 question test that costs $35 so I recommend it anyway.

You have to have a USDOT # if your vehicle is over 10,001 and used for commercial purrposes. There for you HAVE to have a DOT Medical card to drive that vehicle. Federal Law.

Any vehicle over 10,001 used for commercial, therefore having a USDOT # requires a vehicle inspection sticker.

That is what I learned today.


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## 2COR517

Quad's post makes sense. If you're buying the tag, you should be able to haul it. It's your fault if you break your truck. The manufacturers GVWR, is just that, a rating. They continue to bump them up. A recent GM 2500 has a GVWR of 9200. Twenty years ago it was 7200. And some people would argue the older trucks were built stronger. GVWR is a balance of capacity vs. performance/reliability. Lower the capacity, performance and reliability go up. This is largely influenced by marketing. Of course the power is there now to move the weight.

I think there also is a weight per inch of treadwidth criteria too. And I can see a violation for exceeding tire capacity. So even if you have a ton truck reg for 26K to cover your trailer, you wouldn't be able to put 18K of granite in the bed without exceeding your tire capacity.


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## cretebaby

QuadPlower;787721 said:


> UPDATE
> My employee was driving my Nissan UD-2000 with a wood chipper behind it. I was following in my Dodge 1500. We were driving from my house to another town to do some chipping. We took US-131 and were doing the posted speed limit of 55. As we drove by a Wendy's I saw the State Trooper (Vehicle Enforcement Unit) parked there. We were both on the CB and I told him to go through the yellow at the next light. I saw the officer pull out, but didn't see him make the light. Closer to town we when through another yellow, so did the officer that caught up to us rather qucikly with his lights on. We pulled into a gas station that we normally get fuel at. So did the officer. I parked my truck and walked over to my other truck and the officer.
> 
> He said he pulled us over for not having the US in the USDOT # sticker on the side of my truck. I didn't believe him because there was no way he saw 3" letters from 100 yards away going 55 mph.
> 
> Long story short, I got a warning for no US letters, no vehicle inspection sticker, and my driver didn't have his DOT Medical card on him.
> 
> Good news is while he was writing it up, I asked him several questions that have been posted on Plow Site. Here are the results.
> 
> I pay for a 24,000 pound plate and my truck is 19,500 GVWR. He said I could scale out at 24k because that is what I pay for. I could get a 26k plate and scale out at 26k if I really wanted to ruin my truck.
> 
> He based it on the axle rating and since that could not be read on the plate on the door, he went by the tire rating. The front ones are rated at 4,000 pounds so the front axle can have 8,000 on it. The back can have 16,000 on it because of the dually 4,000 pound tires. So I can leagally scale out at 24k because my tires can handle it and I pay for that much on the plate.
> 
> He also said that you don't have to have a Chauffers license as a landscaper/snow plow operator. Chauffers license are for delivery vehicles. In MI it is a 19 question test that costs $35 so I recommend it anyway.
> 
> You have to have a USDOT # if your vehicle is over 10,001 and used for commercial purrposes. There for you HAVE to have a DOT Medical card to drive that vehicle. Federal Law.
> 
> Any vehicle over 10,001 used for commercial, therefore having a USDOT # requires a vehicle inspection sticker.
> 
> That is what I learned today.


That just goes to show how stupid the trooper is.

If ratings on everything else doesn't matter, why would the rating on the tire matter?


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## cet

If that is the law that's sad. Everyone seems to worry about ruining their truck. I am more worried about stoping it and not killing the person crossing at the light. IMO the Trooper is wrong, and they have been in the past. Can you go and get a 24,000 lb sticker for a 1/2 ton?

In Ontario it works like this.
If you are pulling a trailer that is over 5,000lbs then your sticker for you truck has to include both your truck weight and trailer weight. If it is less then 5,000lbs then it has to be just for the truck. This is why you can get a sticker for more then the legal truck weight. I'm pretty sure you can't take a 9200lb GVW truck and stick 12,000lbs total in it and not get a ticket.


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## bigmudder77

i just hauled 2 different 2500 dodge rams with my 1500 

now my trailer is 1600lbs and id guess the first truck (had a plow in the bed) was around 8500lbs (my friends 96 2500 diesel is 7800pounds empty thats why i guess the truck was around 8500 with the plow in it) 

i dont know what my trucks gvw is but i over loaded the trailer cause it has 3500lb dual axles and says its gvw is 5000lbs 

but i passed 4 cops sitting on the side of the high way and i didnt get pulled over at all


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## cretebaby

bigmudder77;787859 said:


> i just hauled 2 different 2500 dodge rams with my 1500
> 
> now my trailer is 1600lbs and id guess the first truck (had a plow in the bed) was around 8500lbs (my friends 96 2500 diesel is 7800pounds empty thats why i guess the truck was around 8500 with the plow in it)
> 
> i dont know what my trucks gvw is but i over loaded the trailer cause it has 3500lb dual axles and says its gvw is 5000lbs
> 
> but i passed 4 cops sitting on the side of the high way and i didnt get pulled over at all


If you have two 3500# axles wouldn't you have a 7k GVWR?


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## Mark Oomkes

QuadPlower;787721 said:


> UPDATE
> My employee was driving my Nissan UD-2000 with a wood chipper behind it. I was following in my Dodge 1500. We were driving from my house to another town to do some chipping. We took US-131 and were doing the posted speed limit of 55. As we drove by a Wendy's I saw the State Trooper (Vehicle Enforcement Unit) parked there. We were both on the CB and I told him to go through the yellow at the next light. I saw the officer pull out, but didn't see him make the light. Closer to town we when through another yellow, so did the officer that caught up to us rather qucikly with his lights on. We pulled into a gas station that we normally get fuel at. So did the officer. I parked my truck and walked over to my other truck and the officer.
> 
> He said he pulled us over for not having the US in the USDOT # sticker on the side of my truck. I didn't believe him because there was no way he saw 3" letters from 100 yards away going 55 mph.
> 
> Long story short, I got a warning for no US letters, no vehicle inspection sticker, and my driver didn't have his DOT Medical card on him.
> 
> Good news is while he was writing it up, I asked him several questions that have been posted on Plow Site. Here are the results.
> 
> I pay for a 24,000 pound plate and my truck is 19,500 GVWR. He said I could scale out at 24k because that is what I pay for. I could get a 26k plate and scale out at 26k if I really wanted to ruin my truck.
> 
> He based it on the axle rating and since that could not be read on the plate on the door, he went by the tire rating. The front ones are rated at 4,000 pounds so the front axle can have 8,000 on it. The back can have 16,000 on it because of the dually 4,000 pound tires. So I can leagally scale out at 24k because my tires can handle it and I pay for that much on the plate.
> 
> He also said that you don't have to have a Chauffers license as a landscaper/snow plow operator. Chauffers license are for delivery vehicles. In MI it is a 19 question test that costs $35 so I recommend it anyway.
> 
> You have to have a USDOT # if your vehicle is over 10,001 and used for commercial purrposes. There for you HAVE to have a DOT Medical card to drive that vehicle. Federal Law.
> 
> Any vehicle over 10,001 used for commercial, therefore having a USDOT # requires a vehicle inspection sticker.
> 
> That is what I learned today.


Interesting, thanks for the update.

I would have answered: Depends on the mood of the trooper that day. 

Funny thing is, every DOT trooper I have heard says we DO need the Chauffer's license. Allegedly, if an employee is driving a company owned car they are required to have a Chauffer's.



cretebaby;787806 said:


> That just goes to show how stupid the trooper is.
> 
> If ratings on everything else doesn't matter, why would the rating on the tire matter?


Good question.


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## 2COR517

cretebaby;787806 said:


> If ratings on everything else doesn't matter, why would the rating on the tire matter?


Just speculating, but I believe the DOT is involved in approving tires for weight ratings. I don't know.

I agree safety is much more important than anything. I know a guy that hauls junk with a 94 2500. Hauls 8-10k on the trailer all the time. No brakes on the trailer. Not many brain cells left in his head.

Well, the gene pool could always use a little cleaning, I just hope he doesn't take any innocent victims with him.


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## bigmudder77

cretebaby;787861 said:


> If you have two 3500# axles wouldn't you have a 7k GVWR?


ya plus the weight of the trailer it self


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## cretebaby

bigmudder77;787872 said:


> ya plus the weight of the trailer it self


If you have two 3500# axles you typically have a 7000# GVWR

It doesn't matter what the trailer weights.


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## bigmudder77

there is a tag that says max load 5000lbs or 5000 gvwr dont remember 

ex your saying your trailer can weigh 6000lbs then you put these 2 3500lbs axles under it that you would still be able to put 7500lbs on it? 

no you cant cause you have to subtract the trailer weight from the max weight the axles can handle


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## cretebaby

bigmudder77;787877 said:


> there is a tag that says max load 5000lbs or 5000 gvwr dont remember


There is a big difference LOL



bigmudder77;787877 said:


> ex your saying your trailer can weigh 6000lbs then you put these 2 3500lbs axles under it that you would still be able to put 7500lbs on it?


??????????????????



bigmudder77;787877 said:


> no you cant cause you have to subtract the trailer weight from the max weight the axles can handle


Some including myself will add tongue weight to the allowable load.


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## bigmudder77

ya true the tongue takes some weight off of it but i was just saying what the tag on my trailer says ill get a pic when my friend gets back from MI with it 

ya i couldnt do over 50-55mph or the trailer would sway REALLY bad thats when you know you got alot of weight on it cause i pulled a grand am home doing around 75-80 and it pulled fine no swaying no nothing 

i dont really know the law here in ohio too well but i have not got pulled over for having our old farm truck over loaded or the trailers i do scrapping from time to time and my biggest load our farm truck and the farm trailer and all the scrap was pushing 29,000lbs unloaded the truck and trailer was about 11,000 after the scrap was off (which could be why i blew the tranny on the truck and broke the rear axle on the trailer) 84 f-250 diesel no motor tranny or trans case then 14-15 car and truck motors in the bed, some with trannys some with out, cab was filled with i dont even remember alot of scrap filled almost to the tops of the doors 1 rear end off an old city plow truck, 1/3rd of a like planter drill type thing, and maybe some more, then in the truck i had a gravity wagon strapped to the stake bed with like 6 chains and the rest of the drill 2 cut up plows (farm ground plows) the hood, fenders, cut up cab, bumper, the cut up frame off that city dump truck (we got it for the dump bed only), a john deere that was stripped for parts and sitting about a ft under ground when we pulled it out cut it up and put it in the gravity wagon top part thing lol 

and we made 4 trips that day just cleaning up old broken farm stuff that we were never gonna use, parts we had laying around for years and any thing else that was just too far gone to worry about fixing 

but thats what i remember the last load to be we just piled all the rest of the stuff in there the best we could cause we didnt wanna go back any more and it was alot of weight and a month later the tranny went out on the 1995 chevy 2500 with a whopping 120k on it and hauling the skid steer to another farm that next week after hauling all the scrap the back axle snapped after hitting a bump on the road and that trailer had the heavy duty axles under not sure what they were rated at it was 8ft wide by 20 ft long dual axles with brakes on both axles


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## 2COR517

cretebaby;787881 said:


> Some including myself will add tongue weight to the allowable load.


All the trailers I have looked at have a GVWR. The GAWR (s) add up to this same number. So.......

3,500 on two axles, plus 1,000 lbs tongue weight is 8,000. Technically over the GVWR of the trailer. Not saying it's going to blow up, by the way. I see way overloaded trailers all the time. Nothing ever seems to happen to these guys.

I personally would rather go the other way. If I need to haul a 5000 lb piece of equipment, I would be much happier with a 10K trailer. Hauled a 78 K10 on a 7500 lb trailer today. Should have been just about at GVWR. Even at just 50-55 mph, tires were hotter than hell. Tires are rated correctly.


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## QuadPlower

The way I read the book is that employees must have Chauffers licenses. I would disagree with the trooper on that.

The side of his truck said Commercial Enforcement Officer. They were out in force in my area last week.


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## deicepro

I went to get heavier plates yesterday for my f450 which is rated at 15000GVW. I told the lady that i knew that the truck was able to handle more. She said i could license it up to 18000GVW for the same money and up to 21500 for a little more. So not thinking it could be that easy i talked to a local DOT officer. He said if you are under your license and everything else is ok (health card, dot#, etc..) then we have no problems. I thought to myself "yeah right". So i got a license for 21500GVW, i guess we will see what happens.


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## 2COR517

My 97 K2500 is rated by GM at 8,600. I'm registered for 18K. Going to 20K next time. Rolled out of the pit at 19K+ a couple of weeks ago. That could have been expensive...........

My friend has his F350 registered for 26K


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## cretebaby

2COR517;792763 said:


> My 97 K2500 is rated by GM at 8,600. I'm registered for 18K. Going to 20K next time. Rolled out of the pit at 19K+ a couple of weeks ago. That could have been expensive...........
> 
> My friend has his F350 registered for 26K


Is that a combo regisrtation?


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## 2COR517

cretebaby;792765 said:


> Is that a combo regisrtation?


Yes. In Maine, you can put plates on any trailer for $20. That makes sense, right? Brand new reefer hauling 70K, 20 bucks.

Friggin boneheads in our state offices. I have to pay the same reg fee as a lumber delivery truck, even though I haul my trailer a couple dozen times a year.

My buddy used to haul his tractor behind his Dodge Cummins on a 6K pass car plate. Go figure.


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## deicepro

Talked to an excavator friend today and he said that it does not matter if you have larger GVW plates, the DOT will look at the tag in the door and thats what the truck is rated for.
They only sell you the plates because they need the money. But in my area The DOT guy is pretty relaxed.


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## 2COR517

deicepro;792955 said:


> it does not matter if you have larger GVW plates, the DOT will look at the tag in the door and thats what the truck is rated for.


That makes no sense. Zero, zip, zilch. How can you haul a trailer more than a couple thousand pounds?


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## cretebaby

2COR517;792964 said:


> That makes no sense. Zero, zip, zilch. How can you haul a trailer more than a couple thousand pounds?


The trailer has seperate registration and GVWR


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## 2COR517

cretebaby;792968 said:


> The trailer has seperate registration and GVWR


Now THAT makes sense.


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## Mark Oomkes

cretebaby;792968 said:


> The trailer has seperate registration and GVWR





 2COR517;792982 said:


> Now THAT makes sense.


Even a broken watch is accurate twice a day.

Just funnin' with ya Scooty. :waving:


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## cretebaby

Mark Oomkes;793142 said:


> Even a broken watch is accurate twice a day.
> 
> Just funnin' with ya Scooty. :waving:


Way to ruin my moment.  :waving:


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## LoneCowboy

I had an interesting conversation with the Deputy chief of the State Police (Colorado) in charge of the scales. In coloardo, the state patrol is the not the same as the DOT cops. The State Patrol runs the scales and sometimes (usually) the DOT guys work out of the same office. The DOT guys also have mobile units.

At the scales (big trucks only in CO), single axles can weigh up to 20,000lbs (per axle)

I asked, well, aren't most trucks rated for 12,000 front axles.

Yes, but for the scalehouse, the law says 20,000lbs per single axle

BUT

The DOT guys could pull you in and inspect you and your weight on that axle could be over the weight rating.

So, you could be legal and illegal at the same time.

Bizarre huh?

BTW, the chauffeur's license is a Michigan thing, most everyone else can ignore it. But the little bit posted by someone earlier about the over 10,001 lb is correct. You are a Commercial Motor Vehicle, and the vehicle needs a DOT inspection sticker and the driver needs a medical card. (but not necessarily a CDL) and in some states (not all) you need a USDOT #. 

Given the poor state of the most state's finances, they are going to be looking for money this year.


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## Ditchdiggin

deicepro;792955 said:


> Talked to an excavator friend today and he said that it does not matter if you have larger GVW plates, the DOT will look at the tag in the door and thats what the truck is rated for.
> They only sell you the plates because they need the money. But in my area The DOT guy is pretty relaxed.


Michigan is the heaviest hauling state in the nation. If you've got trains with the right axle configuration you can haul 164,000 as long as you're plated for it. The DOT might give you a mis-load ticket if your axles can't scale the weight but they normally will not give a overweight ticket if you are under your baseplate.


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## cretebaby

LoneCowboy;798723 said:


> BTW, the chauffeur's license is a Michigan thing, most everyone else can ignore it. But the little bit posted by someone earlier about the over 10,001 lb is correct. You are a Commercial Motor Vehicle, and the vehicle needs a DOT inspection sticker and the driver needs a medical card. (but not necessarily a CDL) and in some states (not all) you need a USDOT #. .


Doesn't the DOT inspection, Med Card and USDOT number go hand in hand?


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## LoneCowboy

cretebaby;799069 said:


> Doesn't the DOT inspection, Med Card and USDOT number go hand in hand?


Nope
funnily enough.

go here: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/online-registration/onlineregdescription.htm

click on "step by step registration guide"
and it will tell you if you need a USDOT number.

Some states you do, some you don't
For example, in Colorado (which is the only one I researched, so research your own state), you can have pretty much as many vehicles as you want, as long as they are below 26,000lbs.
Once you get ONE RIG over 26,000lbs the entire fleet now needs a USDOT number
Other states are different.

USDOT # follows the company
medical card follows the driver
inspection follows the vehicle.


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## camconcrete

i got pulled over this spring in wilmington ohio..... a town hurting for money because DHL/ airborne express was pulling out of town and they were about to lose 10000 jobs within a three county area. I was just finishing up pool deck tear out and replacement at the city pool, and I got pulled over on my way out of town, for of all things my break away was hooked up the way the local bear wanted it hooked. then he got to nosing around and decided to call the scales in to make sure i had the right tags and wasn't overweight.
so I pulled over, pulled up on portable scales and weighed 19900 pounds. My truck is tagged for 10000 pounds and the trailer i was towing has a gvw of 12200. He said i was overweight cause I need 20000 pound plates on my truck to compensate for the trailer.
So after a $300 ticket(which could have been a lot more cause I had some loose lumber under the skid loader held down by the bucket and only one strap on it). anyways I went to court and fought it and lost, but I did get the fine cut in half.
Bottom line is alot of the troopers out there aren't educated enough on the proper plating of vehicles and combination weights and like to pick on guys out there workin for a living just to generate money as a way to compensate for lost taxes and revenue


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## cretebaby

LoneCowboy;799071 said:


> Nope
> funnily enough.
> 
> go here: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/online-registration/onlineregdescription.htm
> 
> click on "step by step registration guide"
> and it will tell you if you need a USDOT number.
> 
> Some states you do, some you don't
> For example, in Colorado (which is the only one I researched, so research your own state), you can have pretty much as many vehicles as you want, as long as they are below 26,000lbs.
> Once you get ONE RIG over 26,000lbs the entire fleet now needs a USDOT number
> Other states are different.
> 
> USDOT # follows the company
> medical card follows the driver
> inspection follows the vehicle.


According to this every commercial vehicle in Colorado needs USDOT #'s


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## Luke_P

IN ONTARIO THIS IS our law and from what my trucking friends tell me most states are similar my f-250's GVW is 10 000lbs my "sticker" is 23 000 that is the gcwr (gross combined weight rating) the truck and trailer combined must not exceed this weight which is also set by the builder (ford) I can plate for less then that but not more , the girl behind the counter might let it go but the first transportation officer that stops you is gonna burn you if you are overweight. My trucks trailer rating is 15 500 gvw is 10 000 why isn't your gcwr 25 500? becasue if you put a goose neck on my truck which weighs 7500 empty according to ford it actually scales around 8200 with me in it you want around 10-15% of your trailers weight supported buy the tow vehicle so 10% of 15000 is 1500 + 8200 which is 9700 add a cooler some lumber or two of my freinds in the cab and whoops you just bought a ticket. shift your load forward so that say 20% of the trailers weight is on the tow vehicle is 8200 plus 3000(20% of 15000) is 11 200 whoops another ticket! If you check GCWR when they are trying to sell you a vehicle read the tiny print underneath there are a lot of variables!! PS I can't speak to your state but in canada if you do not have a legible gvw sticker in your vehicle as it came from the factory it = major sh*t, tires load rating and psi as marked on the tire is for max load of the tire not the axle. If i put 10 tons of tire on my 5 ton truck I didn't just double its capacity. If you exceed the axle rating it may fail wether the tire can support it or not. either your tropper was an idiot or who ever made the law is. burst tire vs snapped axle vs hub failing and coming off which would you rather have happen? The only exception I could see to this is if he found the builders recommended tire info in the vehicle somewhere and what you had on matched exactly?


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## LoneCowboy

cretebaby;799111 said:
 

> According to this every commercial vehicle in Colorado needs USDOT #'s


Right and in Colorado it's not a CMV to register until it's 26,000lbs. (even though federally it's a CMV at 10,001)
don't ask, I don't make them up. (although I think the cops do)
go thru the checklist and plug in the state and with no vehicles below 26,000, no USDOT required in Colo, above, it's different.
go thru the step by step link for YOUR state.


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## KJ Cramer

All this back and forth has raised some questions. I was under the impression that if I was going to be hauling more than 10,000 lbs I need a DOT #, what I am reading on here is making me wonder if I need one because my truck and trailer when combined are more than 10,000lbs. Lets simplify, Do i need a DOT sticker - My truck = 8200 lbs and my trailer = 6000 +/- grand combined total = 14,200lbs. I own my own business and therefore the truck is used commercially.


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## cretebaby

KJ Cramer;799168 said:


> All this back and forth has raised some questions. I was under the impression that if I was going to be hauling more than 10,000 lbs I need a DOT #, what I am reading on here is making me wonder if I need one because my truck and trailer when combined are more than 10,000lbs. Lets simplify, Do i need a DOT sticker - My truck = 8200 lbs and my trailer = 6000 +/- grand combined total = 14,200lbs. I own my own business and therefore the truck is used commercially.


Yes and I hope your F250 is more than 8200# GVWR


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## cretebaby

LoneCowboy;799162 said:


> Right and in Colorado it's not a CMV to register until it's 26,000lbs. (even though federally it's a CMV at 10,001)
> .


It is the same here but I still need a USDOT#


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## KJ Cramer

cretebaby;799189 said:


> Yes and I hope your F250 is more than 8200# GVWR


Yes GVWR is10,000 but the weight of the vehicle is 8200, the trailer is rated for 10,000 as well but it only usually weighs 6,000 +/-


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## cretebaby

KJ Cramer;799197 said:


> Yes GVWR is10,000 but the weight of the vehicle is 8200, the trailer is rated for 10,000 as well but it only usually weighs 6,000 +/-


It goes by GVW, so your 10k truck with any trailer is a CMV.


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## KJ Cramer

That Uncle Sam really knows how to keep taking your hard earned money. Nickel and Diming a person to death.


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## cretebaby

KJ Cramer;799200 said:


> That Uncle Sam really knows how to keep taking your hard earned money. Nickel and Diming a person to death.


The numbers are free.

Getting the stickers, the inspection and the med card will cost you though.


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## KJ Cramer

cretebaby;799211 said:


> The numbers are free.
> 
> Getting the stickers, the inspection and the med card will cost you though.


Roughly how much and do you have to take a class for the med card


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## cretebaby

KJ Cramer;799214 said:


> Roughly how much and do you have to take a class for the med card


I don't know off the top of my head, and the med card is a DOT Physical.


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## QuadPlower

Medical card is done by your doc or any doc. It cost me $50. There is no class, just a physical.


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## KJ Cramer

Thank you cretebaby. I'll look up the cost. I thought the med card was like CPR training or some BS, so as long as I don't tell them about the excessive chewing and drinking problem I should be able to get my med card.


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## LoneCowboy

cretebaby;799211 said:


> The numbers are free.
> 
> Getting the stickers, the inspection and the med card will cost you though.


and all the associated paperwork.


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## LoneCowboy

a DOT inspection around here varies from $75 (reasonable) to $250 (haha , not on my dime) PER piece of equipment. so pickup plus trailer is 2 inspections, not one. 

PLUS whatever repairs they have to do.

And when you go for your yearly physical (that's usually covered by your insurance) just tell them you want a DOT card after you pass. Which usually makes it free.
OR
go to the nearest big truck stop and they'll have a trailer for DOT physicals, $40 to $50 or so.


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## LoneCowboy

KJ Cramer;799168 said:


> All this back and forth has raised some questions. I was under the impression that if I was going to be hauling more than 10,000 lbs I need a DOT #, what I am reading on here is making me wonder if I need one because my truck and trailer when combined are more than 10,000lbs. Lets simplify, Do i need a DOT sticker - My truck = 8200 lbs and my trailer = 6000 +/- grand combined total = 14,200lbs. I own my own business and therefore the truck is used commercially.


did you actually go thru the link I posted on page 2?
do that, and then you'll know 100%


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## mullis56

Or if you have a mechanic in-house he can do DOT inspections for FREE just buy the sticker and the form and someone has to file and keep the paper part of the inspection!


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## QuadPlower

I'm tempted to get re-certified as a mechanic and do it myself. That's what I did prior to landscape and snow.


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## KJ Cramer

If I get a DOT stciker and all the associated BS, does that mean I have to pull over at the weight stations all the time too. This is alot of hassle for something that I have never been pulled over for yet, and according to the laws and that website I should have had a DOT sticker on the last truck (F-150) as well, While I don't doubt you guys and mean no offense by this, I think I am just going to leave it for now, how much is the ticket if I get caught. I have passed cops numerous times and never had any issues doing 70 (speed limit 65) on the freeway with the trailer LOADED, if I get a DOT sticker, I'll have to pay for the BS, then only be able to drive 55 in some areas, and I would have to stop at the weight station.


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## cretebaby

KJ Cramer;799328 said:


> If I get a DOT stciker and all the associated BS, does that mean I have to pull over at the weight stations all the time too.


Your "suppose" to anyway.(over 4 ton)



> This is alot of hassle for something that I have never been pulled over for yet, and according to the laws and that website I should have had a DOT sticker on the last truck (F-150) as well, While I don't doubt you guys and mean no offense by this, I think I am just going to leave it for now, how much is the ticket if I get caught. I have passed cops numerous times and never had any issues doing 70 (speed limit 65) on the freeway with the trailer LOADED, if I get a DOT sticker, I'll have to pay for the BS, then only be able to drive 55 in some areas, and I would have to stop at the weight station.


Are you traveling in IL too?


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## KJ Cramer

cretebaby;799330 said:


> Your "suppose" to anyway.(over 4 ton)
> 
> Are you traveling in IL too?


Yes I am, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Minnesota, Wisconsin - I put in a lot of Little Cesar Pizzas so we travel, might be going to OK here soon.

I pass tons of people that are over 4 tons, with no sticker, at what point do they actually start enforcing it.


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## cretebaby

KJ Cramer;799331 said:


> Yes I am, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Minnesota, Wisconsin - I put in a lot of Little Cesar Pizzas so we travel, might be going to OK here soon.
> 
> I pass tons of people that are over 4 tons, with no sticker, at what point do they actually start enforcing it.


That just depends on the mood of the offocer I guess.


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## KJ Cramer

On another note, its not even so much the fact I would have to get the sticker, its all the other crap, The sticker looks like a$$ on the side of a truck, the trailer would need 4 new tires, even though the tires on there are fine, but they are worn pretty good, wanted to make it through winter with them, The top of the head shows when testing with a penny, I probably would need a weight distributing hitch so my rear axle isn't technically over weighted, despite the fact that the truck handles the trailer excellent with out it. So now with 4 new tires, weight distribution, registration, Doctor, I am probably over a grand not to mention the time that I don't have (maybe if I wasn't on here so much....naahhh).


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## terrapro

Yep, this is why us who are trying are hardest to do things legal get so pissed when we get undercut by Joe Shmo carpenter with a snow-bear on his ranger.

Get your stuff in line and welcome to the club!


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## KJ Cramer

Yeah Yeah, I know, I already got a doc appoint for the med card, and got the forms off the website to fill out tonight, but I am still going to piss and moan a little. I just can't believe how much of my money goes out the door to fund other people, between the insurances, licenses, registration, taxes, rent I dont even know why I stay in business. But I gripe about it and move on because I believe in doing it right. I think I am going to go  to blow off some steam tonight.


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## Luke_P

And I thought ontario was BS do you guys have to follow state and federal rules?


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## LoneCowboy

KJ Cramer;799328 said:


> If I get a DOT stciker and all the associated BS, does that mean I have to pull over at the weight stations all the time too. This is alot of hassle for something that I have never been pulled over for yet, and according to the laws and that website I should have had a DOT sticker on the last truck (F-150) as well, While I don't doubt you guys and mean no offense by this, I think I am just going to leave it for now, how much is the ticket if I get caught. I have passed cops numerous times and never had any issues doing 70 (speed limit 65) on the freeway with the trailer LOADED, if I get a DOT sticker,.


Do you have insurance on your house?
Has it ever burned down?

is it therefore a waste?

Same thing.

You might go years without getting pulled over, it might be tomorrow. You just never know. It's mostly those mobile DOT stations that get you. And the fines are typically $100 (plus) for EACH thing. And, they can put you out of service (sit there til you fix it, if it's not fixed after a few hours, we impound it). You can see that these can really add up.

The way the cities and towns and states and counties are crying for money (to waste on unproductive things), where else are they going to get it? Well, of course, on the backs of small businesses. Just like always.

Last year I got caught up in 4 of those mobile DOT stations. This year,not one. yet.
But I"m prepared. (hopefully)

Regular cop tickets are way up here in Colorado (like 70%, paper had a story on it), towns where you never before saw a cop now have like 2 cop cars out cruising for speeders. Speed traps are everywhere (in easy spots that are 100% safe, but easy for them to catch someone). Yes, the cops are out there, and going for the easy pickens.

BTW, any commercial vehicle needs a fire extinguisher, safety triangles and extra fuses. No matter if it it's USDOT stickered or not.


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## cretebaby

LoneCowboy;799760 said:


> Do you have insurance on your house?
> Has it ever burned down?
> 
> is it therefore a waste?
> 
> Same thing.


Really



> BTW, any commercial vehicle needs a fire extinguisher, safety triangles and extra fuses. No matter if it it's USDOT stickered or not.


If it is a commercial vehicle it needs a USDOT#:waving:


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## KJ Cramer

Yes I have insurance on my house, no they have never burnt down, don't thinks its a waste in the least. I know people whos houses have burned down. I know of absolutley NO ONE that has ever got pulled over for not having a DOT sticker pulling the same or more than what I pull/weight and are commercial i.e. other contractors like me. 

BTW: I already had said I was getting it. I still fail to see how a DOT registration is anything like insurance however. A DOT sticker is just another way for someone else to get more money.


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## LoneCowboy

cretebaby;799762 said:


> If it is a commercial vehicle it needs a USDOT#:waving:


that's not necessarily true.
Depends on the state.
We've been thru this.
If you can't click on the FMCSA website and go thru the official end all be all of "do you need a USDOT #, then just stop. And what's true in your state is not necessarily true in someone else's state.


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## cretebaby

LoneCowboy;799848 said:


> that's not necessarily true.


But it is true for WI , which just happens to be the state that KJ is in not to mention he is running interstate



> Depends on the state.
> We've been thru this.
> If you can't click on the FMCSA website and go thru the official end all be all of "do you need a USDOT #, then just stop. And what's true in your state is not necessarily true in someone else's state.


I am curious how you figure you don't need them. If Colorado chose to adopt the federal regulations like the fed site says then I would think your rules would be the same as mine.

Just asking.


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## LoneCowboy

cretebaby;799932 said:


> But it is true for WI , which just happens to be the state that KJ is in not to mention he is running interstate


Sorry, my bad, missed both those things.

He's running interstate? Really? Now you probably need a UCC # too and probably operating authority. Opens a whole new can of worms.



> I am curious how you figure you don't need them. If Colorado chose to adopt the federal regulations like the fed site says then I would think your rules would be the same as mine.
> 
> Just asking.


I do NOW. (see sig), but with just pickups and no combo vehicle over 26,000lbs, it's not needed in Colorado. Did it for years, was legal. Although somehow, the magic DOT cop book (you know, the one with rules that change every time you get pulled over. either that or they all have different books) said I needed fire extinguisher, etc. But not the number. At that time. Now, of course, I have rigs over 26,000lbs, and I have the number.

BTW, I wanted to clarify something I said earlier but of course you can't edit existing posts here.

If you don't need the number, DON'T GET IT.
But if you do, you should. Sooner or later you'll get caught up in something.


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## cretebaby

LoneCowboy;799989 said:


> with just pickups and no combo vehicle over 26,000lbs, it's not needed in Colorado.


I trust what I can read over what a DOT Cop will tell me.

http://www.csp.state.co.us/downloads/mcsap_intrastateapp.pdf

http://www.csp.state.co.us/mcsap.html



> If you don't need the number, DON'T GET IT.


Agreed


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## Deershack

Earlier in this post someone mentioned that "your mechanic" could do a DOT inspection and someone else said they just might get their cert back as a mechanic to do his own. My understanding is that a DOT inspection can only be done by someone who has no interest in the outcome of the inspection and/or does not work on the vechicle. I'm certainly welcome to be corrected but this would make sense to insure that the inspection is on the up and up.


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## cretebaby

Deershack;800132 said:


> Earlier in this post someone mentioned that "your mechanic" could do a DOT inspection and someone else said they just might get their cert back as a mechanic to do his own. My understanding is that a DOT inspection can only be done by someone who has no interest in the outcome of the inspection and/or does not work on the vechicle. I'm certainly welcome to be corrected but this would make sense to insure that the inspection is on the up and up.


A freind of mine builds new tanker semi trailers and does the DOT inspections in house.


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## LoneCowboy

Deershack;800132 said:


> Earlier in this post someone mentioned that "your mechanic" could do a DOT inspection and someone else said they just might get their cert back as a mechanic to do his own. My understanding is that a DOT inspection can only be done by someone who has no interest in the outcome of the inspection and/or does not work on the vechicle. I'm certainly welcome to be corrected but this would make sense to insure that the inspection is on the up and up.


In my experience, minus real trucking companies, many DOT inspections are a scam.
Pencil whip inspections I've heard them called (pass, pass, pass, pass) never even looking at the truck.

If you pay for them at a real mechanic that you trust they can be a valuable tool.

But from the sales sides of things, they are just a scam. 
My dump truck when I purchased it, I had to drive it back, therefore it needed an inspection before I could drive it down the road. Well, in the next 600 miles (the drive back)....
This is after passing a DOT inspection mind you, "fully inspected by a mechanic".
3 of the 6 air chamber springs were rusted out and broken (no brakes on 3 of 6), one of the two pins holding the entire dump bed on was missing.
a driveshaft yoke was loose, stripped and coming apart (and would have at speed hadn't my mechanic found it). 
None of these could be found by the driver only by a mechanic (esp the air chamber ones, it held air, it looks solid, could only tell that the brakes didn't apply, no way for the driver to do that), so clearly the "inspection" wasn't really done. (and in fact I did get my money back, but that's not really the point). 
Unless YOU had the DOT inspection done, it's worth precisely "Richard"


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