# Credit Card fees



## Mark Oomkes

For those of you that accept CC payment, are you adding a 3% surcharge like so many other companies do? 

If so, was there a lot of pushback?


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## Mitragorz

We do not. It's part of doing business.

It was my choice to accept credit cards. I'm not going to make my customers pay that.

Plus, the number of additional "flagdowns" I'm able to accept when they say "but I don't have cash, do you take cards?" makes the extra fees worth it.


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## cwren2472

It looks better from a consumer standpoint if you charge a set fee - at a higher price if need be - and offer a discount for cash (and/or check if you like.) 

While the net result will be the same to both of you, it doesn't make you seem like you are nickle and dime-ing the customer - even if you still are.


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## Mark Oomkes

Mitragorz said:


> It's part of doing business.


Losing 3% off the top is part of doing business?

Could you elaborate?



Mitragorz said:


> Plus, the number of additional "flagdowns" I'm able to accept when they say "but I don't have cash, do you take cards?" makes the extra fees worth it.


We don't do flagdowns.


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## Philbilly2

When the bar in town started taking CC's they charged $3.00 to run the card. When someone would b*itch the owner would laugh and tell them to go withdraw the cash from the ATM (which he also owned) people would go over there and find out that had a $4.00 withdrawal fee... :laugh:

I laughed quite hard a few times watching that play out time and time again.


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## cwren2472

I will say that, as a consumer, it always rubs me the wrong way when places tack on fees for credit cards. I have two local stores that do it and it comes across as petty to me. And that comes from a retailer who knows full well how much credit card fees cost.

That said, it depends on the dollar amounts we are talking about. For an $8,000 account, yes, insisting on cash or check, or adding a fee is acceptable. For a $40 driveway, it would appear petty.

For instance, my local fish store does it. And has a sign stating that they "offer a 3% discount for cash." And that "our marked prices already include this discount." So they charge a 3% surcharge with credit card. And when I pay a 3% surcharge on an $18 bottle of chemicals that I could be purchasing on Amazon for $10 anyway, it irritates me.


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## Mark Oomkes

BTW, we do offer ACH payments as well.


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## the Suburbanite

cwren2472 said:


> I will say that, as a consumer, it always rubs me the wrong way when places tack on fees for credit cards. I have two local stores that do it and it comes across as petty to me. And that comes from a retailer who knows full well how much credit card fees cost.
> 
> That said, it depends on the dollar amounts we are talking about. For an $8,000 account, yes, insisting on cash or check, or adding a fee is acceptable. For a $40 driveway, it would appear petty.


Looks like it's a $41.20 driveway then. With $1.40 off for cash. Amirite?


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> For a $40 driveway, it would appear petty.


We only do full pre-pays for driveways. So it isn't $8,000 but it isn't $40 either.

3% is 3%. Is it going to cause us to go bankrupt? No, but a poop ton of other companies are. Even the state of Michigan does when renewing licenses. Flying J has been doing it for a couple decades.


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## Philbilly2

cwren2472 said:


> I will say that, as a consumer, it always rubs me the wrong way when places tack on fees for credit cards. I have two local stores that do it and it comes across as petty to me. And that comes from a retailer who knows full well how much credit card fees cost.
> 
> That said, it depends on the dollar amounts we are talking about. For an $8,000 account, yes, insisting on cash or check, or adding a fee is acceptable. For a $40 driveway, it would appear petty.


Yeah, I am the opposite.

Places that take a check or cash, I ask them which they prefer.

My mechanic takes credit cards, I always bring him a check the next day and he always appreciates that another business owner recognizes and sees the amount spent in those fees.

I believe that you said it best. Charge more and offer a discount for cash or check.


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## Mitragorz

Mark Oomkes said:


> Losing 3% off the top is part of doing business?
> 
> Could you elaborate?


Sure:

If you decided to accept credit cards, and signed an agreement wherein you agreed to be charged fees for accepting credit cards then yes, that is part of doing business.


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## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> 3% is 3%. Is it going to cause us to go bankrupt? No, but a poop ton of other companies are. Even the state of Michigan does when renewing licenses. Flying J has been doing it for a couple decades.


All municipalities do because they can. They have a monopoly on that service and don't have to care about appearing money gouging.

You, on the other hand, presumably have competitors. Do you have a right to not lose the 3%? Sure, of course. My point is how it looks in the eye of the customer. But that's just me.


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## Mark Oomkes

Mitragorz said:


> Sure:
> 
> If you decided to accept credit cards, and signed an agreement wherein you agreed to be charged fees for accepting credit cards then yes, that is part of doing business.


OK, that makes sense.

Unfortunately we were forced to start accepting them by our largest customer. We continued on accepting them, even though we talked that customer out of using them.


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## cwren2472

Philbilly2 said:


> Yeah, I am the opposite.
> 
> Places that take a check or cash, I ask them which they prefer.
> 
> My mechanic takes credit cards, I always bring him a check the next day and he always appreciates that another business owner recognizes and sees the amount spent in those fees.
> 
> I believe that you said it best. Charge more and offer a discount for cash or check.


At the fish store, I almost always pay cash anyway (as most of my purchases are under his credit card minimum, which I have no issue with.) It is the principle of the sign that annoys me.


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## Philbilly2

My suppliers offer 2% net 10. But they will not let you pay your bill with a card if you take advantage of that incentive... (not that I ever tried with my cash back card or anything... :laugh

That is an incentive that gets them paid faster. I think this might be along the same lines. If you need the capital faster, the 3% hit might be worth it. If you can afford to wait... offer terms that include 3% service charge added if a card is used. No extra charge if you pay cash of check net 30

Just my 2 cents for what it is worth


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## Philbilly2

cwren2472 said:


> At the fish store, I almost always pay cash anyway (as most of my purchases are under his credit card minimum, which I have no issue with.) It is the principle of the sign that annoys me.


Do you get an incentive from your card?


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> My point is how it looks in the eye of the customer. But that's just me.


That's why I'm asking.

Our starter\alternator rebuilder has charged extra for a long time. Our salt vendors are charging more per ton if a CC is used. Fuel companies have been for a long time.

I don't like paying extra either, but I don't like taking the hit either.


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> My suppliers offer 2% net 10. But they will not let you pay your bill with a card if you take advantage of that incentive... (not that I ever tried with my cash back card or anything... :laugh
> 
> That is an incentive that gets them paid faster. I think this might be along the same lines. If you need the capital faster, the 3% hit might be worth it. If you can afford to wait... offer terms that include 3% service charge added if a card is used. No extra charge if you pay cash of check net 30
> 
> Just my 2 cents for what it is worth


Our residential customers have to prepay for the season or they don't get serviced. Honestly, those prepays are a HUGE help in the fall when our green work slows down. Especially having to prepay 50% of our salt. We would have been way into our LOC if it wasn't for those prepays. HUUUGELY.


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## cwren2472

Philbilly2 said:


> Do you get an incentive from your card?


Yes, so I use it everywhere else. Yes, I understand the hypocrisy.


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## Philbilly2

cwren2472 said:


> Yes, I understand the hypocrisy.


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## cwren2472

I will say, after all that, that for services like getting my own driveway cleared, we always pay cash. It doesn't even occur to us to try and use a card. But I know that we are not the rule in having cash on hand for that sort of thing. We also pay when the services are rendered as well (crazy, I know.)


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## John_DeereGreen

You might want to consider checking with your credit card processing company. The one we use will not allow us to charge customer card fees above the purchase price per their contract.


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## cwren2472

the Suburbanite said:


> Looks like it's a $41.20 driveway then. With $1.40 off for cash. Amirite?


Actually, in that case you round up to $45 and pocket the difference. That's called capitalism.


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> You might want to consider checking with your credit card processing company. The one we use will not allow us to charge customer card fees above the purchase price per their contract.


That's why no one else does. It is frowned upon but a whole lot of companies do it.


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## Philbilly2

cwren2472 said:


> I will say, after all that, that for services like getting my own driveway cleared, we always pay cash. It doesn't even occur to us to try and use a card. But I know that we are not the rule in having cash on hand for that sort of thing. We also pay when the services are rendered as well (crazy, I know.)


I tried to pay cash at one of those little pop up kiosk things in the mall a couple years ago. The little girl looked at me and said "ah... we don't accept cash"...

I looked at her like she had three heads and said "Who in their right mind does not accept cash????" Cash is King!


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## cwren2472

Philbilly2 said:


> I looked at her like she had three heads and said "Who in their right mind does not accept cash????" Cash is King!


A mall kiosk owner who does not want the $7 per hour high school kid handling big stacks of cash unsupervised. They also don't need to worry about the logistics of deposits, having to make change, or the high school kid getting robbed.


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## cwren2472

And these days, everyone uses plastic. There are some days that I don't even need a cash drawer, everything is CC or check.


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## Philbilly2

cwren2472 said:


> A mall kiosk owner who does not want the $7 per hour high school kid handling big stacks of cash unsupervised. They also don't need to worry about the logistics of deposits, having to make change, or the high school kid getting robbed.


Understood...

Still stupid.


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> Understood...
> 
> Still stupid.


Agreed


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## Defcon 5

cwren2472 said:


> A mall kiosk owner who does not want the $7 per hour high school kid handling big stacks of cash unsupervised. They also don't need to worry about the logistics of deposits, having to make change, or the high school kid getting robbed.


No different than a lot of Yard-Snow monkeys handling cash unsupervised...Outcome is usually coupious amounts of Jagoof lights purchased with said Cash


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## cwren2472

Disagree. If I was running some low rent mall kiosk _that I was not staffing myself, _I wouldn't take cash either. The amount of business lost by not taking cash from the 3 people in America without a credit card is probably insignificant compared to the headaches of entrusting minimum wage help with lots of paper money.

You know how when you get a cup of coffee they have a sign that offers you a free cup if you don't get a receipt? Well, you know their concern is not that you'll need the receipt if you want to return it, right?


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## cwren2472

Defcon 5 said:


> No different than a lot of Yard-Snow monkeys handling cash unsupervised...Outcome is usually coupious amounts of Jagoof lights purchased with said Cash


Then at least it is going to a good cause.


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## Defcon 5

cwren2472 said:


> Then at least it is going to a good cause.


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## BossPlow2010

Defcon 5 said:


> View attachment 186878


Are those wired jnto the deutsch connectors on the spreader?


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> View attachment 186878


Only a M would have that many jagoof lights.


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## Mike_PS

let's keep the discussion on point


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Only a M would have that many jagoof lights.


Wow!!!....I never thought I would see the day that You said someone had Too Many Jagoof Lights....


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## Defcon 5

Ok...Charge the 3%....Everyone else does


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## JMHConstruction

I do charge it, but to avoid people from using them. We don't do enough business to set up a monthly service (our bank has an outside company we met with and they evaluated our financials. It was actually pretty cheap). When I'm selling a $20k deck, 3.5% is a lot of money. I hate doing it, but I can't take that hit, or up charge that to every bid I submit just in case they want to use a card.

I did have a buddy of mine who runs a small retail shop tell me it's illegal, and that I need to apply for a financing permit, or license, or something. Something about since you're charging to finance, you're responsible for fees to the state. Honestly I never looked in to it


I'd say if it's something you get a lot of, the square reader and those types of card readers aren't the way to go. Find a company that will evaluate your money flow, and give a monthly fee. It was something like $35/mo for us, but in 9 months I never used it, so I canceled.


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## absolutely

We only except credit cards for residential service. All commercial service and all landscaping is check, direct deposit or occasionally cash. We had several slow paying residential that are now paying their bill within a day or two with quickbooks link.


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## Randall Ave

I'm following along. In the last few months seems that 90 Percent is paying by CC. My fees are between four to five hundred a month.


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## Hydromaster

What does the small print on every bill/note say?

This note is Legal tender for ALL depts,
Public and private.

It’s un-American to not except cash and maybe even illegal .

Jmo


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## Mark Oomkes

JMHConstruction said:


> I'd say if it's something you get a lot of, the square reader and those types of card readers aren't the way to go. Find a company that will evaluate your money flow, and give a monthly fee. It was something like $35/mo for us, but in 9 months I never used it, so I canceled.


Credit card processing fees are as screwed up and confusing as health insurance and cell phone bills. Transaction fees and x.xx% up to this amount or some such BS. My eyes tend to glaze over as my BP goes up. Have no idea why it can't just be: x.xx%. Or just a transaction fee. But noooooo...has to have all kinds of conditions and then until you start using it you don't know how much you're really going to pay. I hate CC processors as much as I do health insurance and cell phone plans.


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## Mark Oomkes

Michael J. Donovan said:


> let's keep the discussion on point


Agreed...


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## Mr.Markus

We had a guy in our town that ran a computer store back in the nineties, he was famous for charging the cc fee.
Someone reported it to the cc company and they wouldnt let him accept credit cards anymore.
I have never accepted cc. Even 3 pecent 
When you sit down and think about it $3k on $100k for payment seems idiotic to me. I don't even like paying bank fees, I've been with a credit union for about 8 years now, if I keep a min balance in my business account there are no fees. They have an interest account as well that I swap the extra into when I'm too flush.


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## Hydromaster

Raise your prices 3% then offer a 3% discount for cash.

It’s how flying-J does it.


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## spencers

Mitragorz said:


> We do not. It's part of doing business.
> 
> It was my choice to accept credit cards. I'm not going to make my customers pay that.
> 
> Plus, the number of additional "flagdowns" I'm able to accept when they say "but I don't have cash, do you take cards?" makes the extra fees worth it.


I agree with you! I started taking credit cards a few years ago and it's helped me even with doing lawns. I use square and also use their invoicing so they can pay online. It's been so nice.


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## tpendagast

Mark Oomkes said:


> For those of you that accept CC payment, are you adding a 3% surcharge like so many other companies do?
> 
> If so, was there a lot of pushback?


Yes
And yes

There's push back 
But EVERYONE is doing it

We are like gas stations from the 80s now, there's a cash price and a credit price.

IMO 
I would have just adjusted prices enough to cover it.


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## tpendagast

Hydromaster said:


> Raise your prices 3% then offer a 3% discount for cash.
> 
> It's how flying-J does it.


I'm am told that's actually against the law

You can charge a price and ADD a cc fee but giving a discount to anyone not using a credit card is defrauding the credit card company.

Yea yea I know it's all semantics
But in the litigenous society we live in today 
Such is life!


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## cwren2472

tpendagast said:


> I'm am told that's actually against the law
> 
> You can charge a price and ADD a cc fee but giving a discount to anyone not using a credit card is defrauding the credit card company.


Do you have a source for this? I've never heard that


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## Hydromaster

tpendagast said:


> I'm am told that's actually against the law
> 
> You can charge a price and ADD a cc fee but giving a discount to anyone not using a credit card is defrauding the credit card company.
> 
> Yea yea I know it's all semantics
> But in the litigenous society we live in today
> Such is life!


Then how does flying-J get away with it?
I'm sure they except everybody's credit cards and have to abide by the same terms everybody else does, who excepts credit cards yet they advertise a higher price for credit and a lower price for cash


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## John_DeereGreen

cwren2472 said:


> Do you have a source for this? I've never heard that


Yeah, considering I've always heard the exact opposite. Maybe not that it's against the law, but the CC processing companies contracts generally state that you cannot charge customers an additional fee for using cards. As I posted earlier in the thread


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## tpendagast

Randall Ave said:


> I'm following along. In the last few months seems that 90 Percent is paying by CC. My fees are between four to five hundred a month.


Before choosing to start charging a fee 
60% of our revenue was paid by cc 
At close to 3 mil annually 
That's $54,000 in credit card fees WE were paying. 
(That's all work not just snow)

Now 
Does that 54k represent a value to the company that has to pay it?
Convenience?
Do you get more sales if you accept cc?

Hard to track 
My gut says yes 
But I don't have any factual data to back that up


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## tpendagast

John_DeereGreen said:


> Yeah, considering I've always heard the exact opposite. Maybe not that it's against the law, but the CC processing companies contracts generally state that you cannot charge customers an additional fee for using cards. As I posted earlier in the thread


I was told that from visa

Considering the vast number of companies chafing an extra fee for cc use
AND the fact the STATE themselves is doing it... I think you've got your understanding reversed. 
You can't give a cash discount 
But you can charge the cc fee
Like I said 
It's technically the same thing.


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## cwren2472

It was always my understanding that a CC fee is patently illegal unless you disclose in advance that one price is cash and another is CC. That is how gas stations get around it.
You can have 2 prices, you just cant change the price after it has been quoted because of a CC.

I've never heard of a prohibition on discount for cash


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## tpendagast

This is a little old but this is what I found 
Varies by state I guess 
https://www.google.com/amp/www.paym...s-cash-discount-program-whats-difference/amp/


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## tpendagast

cwren2472 said:


> It was always my understanding that a CC fee is patently illegal unless you disclose in advance that one price is cash and another is CC. That is how gas stations get around it.
> You can have 2 prices, you just cant change the price after it has been quoted because of a CC.
> 
> I've never heard of a prohibition on discount for cash


Like I said that's what I was "told"... doesn't make it true, also doesn't make it untrue.

We tell everyone there's a 3% cc fee 
Most people pay by check now 
But it does take longer for them to pay.


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## tpendagast

Further down in this article it talks a bit about the impact in sales and the customers opinion of being surcharged, which I tend to agree with.

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-convenience-fees-cost-surcharges-1280.php


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## cwren2472

tpendagast said:


> Further down in this article it talks a bit about the impact in sales and the customers opinion of being surcharged, which I tend to agree with.
> 
> https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-convenience-fees-cost-surcharges-1280.php


Alot of that was my original point. I will say though that getting charged a 3% fee at a storefront may not be seen the same as it would be for a service being performed like Mark's. So I still think a discount for cash would be preferable and upping his price to cover it, but I'm not sure it would be frowned on the same way as what I had said originally


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## Hydromaster

When I use my debit card at flying-J
they treat it as cash.


I thought the credit card rules were the same for every state, learned something new...


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## FredG

I don't do CC and never did in Construction. Retail is a little different and I did take CC and a big sign at the register, 3% up charge on CC transactions.


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## cwren2472

No surprise that both Taxachusetts and Colorado ban such things. Virtual fist bump to @BUFF

Guess extra money is only acceptable when the government is taking it


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## Mark Oomkes

Interesting links and info. 

Thanks for those. 

We might have to adjust how we word it and what we charge.


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## FredG

Hydromaster said:


> When I use my debit card at flying-J
> they treat it as cash.
> 
> I thought the credit card rules were the same for every state, learned something new...


 Yes debit transactions should be treated as cash.


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## tpendagast

cwren2472 said:


> Alot of that was my original point. I will say though that getting charged a 3% fee at a storefront may not be seen the same as it would be for a service being performed like Mark's. So I still think a discount for cash would be preferable and upping his price to cover it, but I'm not sure it would be frowned on the same way as what I had said originally


Still thought 
Paying $54,000 for accepting credit cards is ludicrous 
That's some poor guys salary 
"Sorry kid , we're going to have to let you go so we can afford credit cards...."

I'd still like to see some studies on how accepting CC 
ADDS to your bottom line

As I said I believe it does 
But I'd like to see some irrefutable data so o can add it into calculations

"Ok kid, you can come back to work now, it's not as bad as I thought!"


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## cwren2472

In our case, a retail store, I have no doubt at all that not accepting credit cards, or pissing off customers with a surcharge, would cost us more than we save.

I do NOT know that the same holds true for Mark. My gut is that it probably doesnt


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## tpendagast

Points 1, 2,6 &7 are in line with my thinking, 
But no actual statistics 
Just loose observations

https://smallbiztrends.com/2013/07/accepting-credit-cards-increase-business.html
Now it's going to bug me until I find data


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## Mark Oomkes

Then there's this:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/29/ame...-4-trillion-and-this-expert-isnt-worried.html

Read a story last week about 28% of Murcans still being in debt from LAST year's holiday spending.

I guess I live a sheltered life. I wasn't aware anyone went into debt for buying gifts\throwing parties. Apparently I am a dental assistant for thinking that. And then to be going into debt again when you haven't paid off last year?


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## LapeerLandscape

Mark Oomkes said:


> Then there's this:
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/29/ame...-4-trillion-and-this-expert-isnt-worried.html
> 
> Read a story last week about 28% of Murcans still being in debt from LAST year's holiday spending.
> 
> I guess I live a sheltered life. I wasn't aware anyone went into debt for buying gifts\throwing parties. Apparently I am a dental assistant for thinking that. And then to be going into debt again when you haven't paid off last year?


I wouldnt mind being on the receiving end of some of those parties or gifts.


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## LapeerLandscape

Taking credit cards are a necessary evil, at least for me. Do I like paying card fees? No. Do I like it when someone calls on the phone and ask me to deliver 5 yards of top soil, heres my card number I wont be home? Yes. Dont have to worry about a check bouncing or meeting someone at the property to pay me. Do I like cash better? Yes.


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## Mark Oomkes

LapeerLandscape said:


> I wouldnt mind being on the receiving end of some of those parties or gifts.


Fireball must be expensive.


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## m_ice

LapeerLandscape said:


> Taking credit cards are a necessary evil, at least for me. Do I like paying card fees? No. Do I like it when someone calls on the phone and ask me to deliver 5 yards of top soil, heres my card number I wont be home? Yes. Dont have to worry about a check bouncing or meeting someone at the property to pay me. Do I like cash better? Yes.


Or corporate accounts that your 2 options are a CC right now or a check in 30-60 days?


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## LapeerLandscape

m_ice said:


> Or corporate accounts that your 2 options are a CC right now or a check in 30-60 days?


Yes, is having your money that night worth 2 to 3% versus waiting 30-60 for a check or having to call and hear Oh I thought I mailed that. Knowing its there is just one less thing to worry about.


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## BossPlow2010

LapeerLandscape said:


> Yes, is having your money that night worth 2 to 3% versus waiting 30-60 for a check or having to call and hear Oh I thought I mailed that. Knowing its there is just one less thing to worry about.


F heads and sons does something like that if they pay you.


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## Mr.Markus

Mark Oomkes said:


> Then there's this:
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/29/ame...-4-trillion-and-this-expert-isnt-worried.html
> 
> Read a story last week about 28% of Murcans still being in debt from LAST year's holiday spending.
> 
> I guess I live a sheltered life. I wasn't aware anyone went into debt for buying gifts\throwing parties. Apparently I am a dental assistant for thinking that. And then to be going into debt again when you haven't paid off last year?


Once you are in debt everything you do makes you poorer...
Taking care of an estate and watching some friends go through a divorce has led me to believe numbers like that are skewed. I think it's much higher..
Both the deceased and the divorced couple lived like and led people to believe they were debt free and wealthy, 
Credit is used incorrectly by a huge number of those who have it and the more credit they have probably the worse condition their finances are in...


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## framer1901

I cringe at the 1500/yr in fees we pay, 54k?? The whole green / white industry is a tough gig and it seems everywhere you turn there's another cut out of your bottom line. I just got hammered on GVW plates....

If you figure what your put in your pocket profit percentage is of your gross sales over the year - 3% becomes a good chunk, thankfully CC's are a small % of sales.

Just a FYI - we do offer a large cash discount for scuba diving....

Mark, if you save some of that LOC, our big red truck would look great in green and I could get a bigger boat - free diving lessons, just saying.


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## Mark Oomkes

framer1901 said:


> If you figure what your put in your pocket profit percentage is of your gross sales over the year - 3% becomes a good chunk, thankfully CC's are a small % of sales.


Eggzactly..



framer1901 said:


> Mark, if you save some of that LOC, our big red truck would look great in green and I could get a bigger boat - free diving lessons, just saying.


Always wanted to learn how to dive...


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## LapeerLandscape

Mark Oomkes said:


> Eggzactly..
> 
> Always wanted to learn how to dive...


So you can hook the cable to your skidsteer.


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## tpendagast

LapeerLandscape said:


> Taking credit cards are a necessary evil, at least for me. Do I like paying card fees? No. Do I like it when someone calls on the phone and ask me to deliver 5 yards of top soil, heres my card number I wont be home? Yes. Dont have to worry about a check bouncing or meeting someone at the property to pay me. Do I like cash better? Yes.


Exactly!

See you have to pay 3% of a transaction you might not have gotten 
Or might have cost you more than 3% trying to collect the payment or just waiting for it in the mail.

Think about how many guys to still hear about going to the door and waiting for the customer to write a check like they're the paper boy!

See I think : raise prices 1.5% rounded and don't even think about cc after that 
That's splitting the difference

If the cost of the service was $55 it's now $56
No one is going to bat an eye.

$100 is now $101....

Done did

But what do I know 
I think adding a fee is adding another obstacle to a sale and offering another chance for the customer to back down from the sale


----------



## Chineau

We took credit cards when we tried another business idea not something I see as an advantage for my operation, curious to ask what interest do you charge on over due invoices, I take cash, cheque or email money transfer and it works for me.


----------



## Philbilly2

tpendagast said:


> Before choosing to start charging a fee
> 60% of our revenue was paid by cc
> At close to 3 mil annually
> That's $54,000 in credit card fees WE were paying.
> (That's all work not just snow)
> 
> Now
> Does that 54k represent a value to the company that has to pay it?
> Convenience?
> Do you get more sales if you accept cc?
> 
> Hard to track
> My gut says yes
> But I don't have any factual data to back that up


Someone has to be the other guy and drag the harsh reality in.

Did acceptance of credit cards net you the 54k in added sales?

If you did not accept cards what is the number in sales that you would truly loose in sales? More or less than the 54k your donating to CC company?


----------



## Philbilly2

LapeerLandscape said:


> Yes, is having your money that night worth 2 to 3% versus waiting 30-60 for a check or having to call and hear Oh I thought I mailed that. Knowing its there is just one less thing to worry about.


Again I am the polar opposite on this one.

Giving up 3% to have your money right now... no thanks. That 3% as mentioned adds up to someone's salary, a new truck or machine, or A LOT of Busch Latte (or fireball)


----------



## Philbilly2

Not to spin this one the wrong way, but do any of you ever ask for a discount if you pay with cash or check?

I know I do all the time. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I dont


----------



## cwren2472

Everyone keeps quoting this $54k as the reason to charge a fee without mentioning that $54k equates to $1.8 million in added sales because of the credit cards. If you lost more than 3 sales out of 100 because you didnt want to take credit cards or because people were upset over the fee, then you lost money, not saved it.


----------



## cjames808

We add 3.5% for CCs. They add up when a customer has a $5,000-$10,000 bill. I’m not paying $2-300 to collect payment. 

Also almost everything I go to pay online has fees electric bill, ins payments, even the state payments for licenses taxes etc. 

Seems if they don’t like it they mail a check. 
Fine.


----------



## Philbilly2

cwren2472 said:


> Everyone keeps quoting this $54k as the reason to charge a fee without mentioning that $54k equates to $1.8 million in added sales because of the credit cards. If you lost more than 3 sales out of 100 because you didnt want to take credit cards or because people were upset over the fee, then you lost money, not saved it.


Correct... but would you loose all 1.8 million in sales if you did not take cards?

I for one use my card for everything! Unless I can get a cash discount that will outway what the incentive is on said card.

So if I have a 2% cash back card and I can get a 3% discount for writing a check. I will write a check.

That is what I am asking.


----------



## cwren2472

Philbilly2 said:


> Correct... but would you loose all 1.8 million in sales if you did not take cards?.


But that's my point. You dont need to loose all 1.8 million. You only need to lose 3% of that to be negative on your $54k savings

Again, for a service industry like Mark's (or yours) I do not actually think that he would lose more than 3%. But I haven't done any market research to know that, that's just my gut


----------



## Philbilly2

cjames808 said:


> We add 3.5% for CCs. They add up when a customer has a $5,000-$10,000 bill. I'm not paying $2-300 to collect payment.
> 
> Also almost everything I go to pay online has fees electric bill, ins payments, even the state payments for licenses taxes etc.
> 
> Seems if they don't like it they mail a check.
> Fine.


Now scale that! That is my point. Look at the coin lost on a 6 figure check...


----------



## Philbilly2

cwren2472 said:


> But that's my point. You dont need to loose all 1.8 million. You only need to lose 3% of that to be negative on your $54k savings


You are in retail. I am not disagreeing with retail. Makes perfect sense for your application.

It is bad books in my line of work. But, that being said, I also will likely never even meet 90% of the people that have signed the checks we received in person. Just a complete different industry.


----------



## cwren2472

Philbilly2 said:


> You are in retail. I am not disagreeing with retail. Makes perfect sense for your application.
> 
> It is bad books in my line of work. But, that being said, I also will likely never even meet 90% of the people that have signed the checks we received in person. Just a complete different industry.


I totally agree. Joe Homeowner will expect you to take a CC on his $150 bill and resent a fee. There is absolutely no reason you should be expected to accept a CC without a fee from the Hospital on their $30,000 repair job.


----------



## FredG

If someone is bullheaded and unreasonable enough to not care about your 3% going south who needs them. The service and construction business is not a big retail store like Walmart or some big franchise.

Furthermore if your looking for your earnings right away there is other ways to pay. The person that wants to use there CC is looking for points and other advantages not your 3% going south. They can get cash advances at any ATM but they don't want to pay the charge.

I use my CC when I have to, hotels, car rental etc other than that I have a debit card or cash in my pocket. I have a line of credit secured by my home if I need any big cash I'm going there, not CC.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

cwren2472 said:


> I totally agree. Joe Homeowner will expect you to take a CC on his $150 bill and resent a fee. There is absolutely no reason you should be expected to accept a CC without a fee from the Hospital on their $30,000 repair job.





Philbilly2 said:


> You are in retail. I am not disagreeing with retail. Makes perfect sense for your application.
> 
> It is bad books in my line of work. But, that being said, I also will likely never even meet 90% of the people that have signed the checks we received in person. Just a complete different industry.


So it looks like the difference is someone spending there own money would care about paying a fee and someone spending someone elses money would care less about paying a fee.


----------



## FredG

cwren2472 said:


> I totally agree. Joe Homeowner will expect you to take a CC on his $150 bill and resent a fee. There is absolutely no reason you should be expected to accept a CC without a fee from the Hospital on their $30,000 repair job.


 Hospitals, City, state, big corps do not use CC. They have accounts payable department when there done you receive your check,


----------



## LapeerLandscape

FredG said:


> Hospitals, City, state, big corps do not use CC. They have accounts payable department when there done you receive your check,


Thats not all true.


----------



## FredG

LapeerLandscape said:


> Thats not all true.


 Put down the pancakes and fireball and please explain. :laugh:


----------



## LapeerLandscape

FredG said:


> Put down the pancakes and fireball and please explain. :laugh:


The maintanence guy at the hospital picks up material all the time and pays with a company card. Other contractors send guys in to pick stuff up and pay with a company card.


----------



## cjames808

FredG said:


> Hospitals, City, state, big corps do not use CC. They have accounts payable department when there done you receive your check,


Some of our local schools and towns use P Cards which are just government credit cards. We do not accept these, check only.


----------



## Randall Ave

I do repairs for a very large trucking company. They went to CC payment. I get an email. Encrypted attached is payment information.


----------



## FredG

LapeerLandscape said:


> The maintanence guy at the hospital picks up material all the time and pays with a company card. Other contractors send guys in to pick stuff up and pay with a company card.


 Probably so for minor things, We have credit with our vendors for materials down to the little hardware store to the auto parts store even the mechanic and most contractors etc do too.

I'm sure I'm the odd one here as most do use CC just not me. If I need cash flow I use my line of credit on my home. I been known to talk people out of money with cash. Just old school I guess.  :laugh:


----------



## FredG

Randall Ave said:


> I do repairs for a very large trucking company. They went to CC payment. I get an email. Encrypted attached is payment information.


 I hope you didn't open it?


----------



## cwren2472

FredG said:


> I hope you didn't open it?


Why not? Are you saying that a Nigerian prince cant be trusted? I mean, he's a prince and all.


----------



## Randall Ave

FredG said:


> I hope you didn't open it?


Heck no. My wife handles all the money. They have been paying like this for a few months now. But she likes handling the cash better.


----------



## FredG

cwren2472 said:


> Why not? Are you saying that a Nigerian prince cant be trusted? I mean, he's a prince and all.


 SKWN. :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## tpendagast

Philbilly2 said:


> Someone has to be the other guy and drag the harsh reality in.
> 
> Did acceptance of credit cards net you the 54k in added sales?
> 
> If you did not accept cards what is the number in sales that you would truly loose in sales? More or less than the 54k your donating to CC company?


Well I don't know 
We accepted CC for years before the whole thing was a discussion 
We only started the surcharge this summer after I did the math on how much the CC use was costing. 
So I don't have data on how much more business we have because of cc 
However I do know for a fact it was more difficult and slower to get residential contracts and upsells with a price effectively being 3% higher. 
Also there was a good deal of push back at the front desk about it, because it was new.
I guess we'll see how it does for another year.

I haven't seen the actual numbers comparison last year to this year, we typical do that in February 
I'll see then if there's any actual affect on sales, but it's hard to say one thing effects sales especially if it is only a little different from last year.


----------



## Randall Ave

The fees are an unfortunate part of doing business. If it's a large invoice, and I know they are using a CC. I try to tac on a little bit more if I can.


----------



## FredG

Randall Ave said:


> The fees are an unfortunate part of doing business. If it's a large invoice, and I know they are using a CC. I try to tac on a little bit more if I can.


 Yup got to do what you got to do. Things change I don't like surprises or change.


----------



## MIDTOWNPC

Push your processors for better fees 
You should be able to get it down to 1.6. What has always bothered me was that the fee was charged after the tax was added.


----------



## BUFF

cwren2472 said:


> No surprise that both Taxachusetts and Colorado ban such things. Virtual fist bump to @BUFF
> 
> Guess extra money is only acceptable when the government is taking it


SKWJA don't pull a hamy reaching for my virtual fist..........
I never took CC's as payment, checks and E transfers through the bank which was no cost to me.

One of my Pwr equipment dealers I use no longer takes checks, CC or cash. The reason was having bad checks from the general public and having to go to the bank to make deposits daily. Since people are less apt to pay with cash they do a bank run twice a week. I make it a point to pay cash just so they have to deal with it.

A good friend is a farrier he takes checks and cash, if his customer is paying cash he offers a 5% discount and has quite a few people take advantage of it.


----------



## framer1901

I gotta believe any retail business has priced in the cc fees as a huge percentage of their sales are paid via cc. They'd be fools not to.

It's us in the service industry that's not used to it. You don't notice the fees on the $150 bills but send a bill out on a 30k landscape job and have it come back with a cc# on it, that sucks.

I like my money in my pocket - not in your cashback account or mileage balance.


----------



## framer1901

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10209093525678946



This guy's from Jersey and does not take CC's


----------



## BUFF

framer1901 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10209093525678946
> 
> 
> 
> This guy's from Jersey and does not take CC's


That clown is actually from Massahoo****s...


----------



## Randall Ave

BUFF said:


> That clown is actually from Massahoo****s...


I remember when that hit the news, he became one of the unemployed.


----------



## m_ice

BUFF said:


> A good friend is a farrier he takes checks and cash, if his customer is paying cash he offers a 5% discount and has quite a few people take advantage of it.


I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with this philosophy but my favorite example of this was at an Italian restaurant we frequent. I pay the owner at the register with a $100 bill on a $35 tab. He doesnt miss a beat shoving that in his pocket and giving me change out of the register. It took everything I had not to laugh drawing attention to it.


----------



## Randall Ave

As far as taking, keeping cash. Kind of why some little dinners and such run two registers. One for the house, one for him.


----------



## kawasaki guy

I charge the 4% I am changed by my billing program and their CC processor if they want to use it. I tell new customers about it, and they are told about the charge when they pay the bill online. I mail out net 30 bills and give the option to pay with a check or cash. I am not loosing money because they want to use a CC.


----------



## cwren2472

m_ice said:


> I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with this philosophy but my favorite example of this was at an Italian restaurant we frequent. I pay the owner at the register with a $100 bill on a $35 tab. He doesnt miss a beat shoving that in his pocket and giving me change out of the register. It took everything I had not to laugh drawing attention to it.


Not sure how pocketing the cash changes anything for him in that case. I would have assumed he didnt want the $100 bill visible on the drawer


----------



## Randall Ave

The large bills go under the bill separator in the drawer. Not in the guys pocket, money has to be counted out at the end of the day, or shift. I dated a lot of waitresses.


----------



## Philbilly2

Randall Ave said:


> I dated a lot of waitresses.


Waitresses eh????


----------



## LapeerLandscape

cwren2472 said:


> Not sure how pocketing the cash changes anything for him in that case. I would have assumed he didnt want the $100 bill visible on the drawer


Yeah thats it.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Randall Ave said:


> As far as taking, keeping cash. Kind of why some little dinners and such run two registers. One for the house, one for him.


Do you remember the old registers that would ring up No Sale and the drawer would open.


----------



## BUFF

m_ice said:


> I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with this philosophy but my favorite example of this was at an Italian restaurant we frequent. I pay the owner at the register with a $100 bill on a $35 tab. He doesnt miss a beat shoving that in his pocket and giving me change out of the register. It took everything I had not to laugh drawing attention to it.


Ironic thing is his clients are very well oof and show up with crisp bills in a bank envelope. They're into Dressage along with Hunter/Jumper horses and think they're Olympic class riders. He gets $100 per hoof for bar shoes, $150 per hoof for corrective shoes and if it's just a hoof trim it's $100 for all 4 hooves.
These people board their animals at barns that charge $1500-1800/month for a stall and run, the barn cleans the stalls / runs and takes care of the bedding they also supply the hay and the animal owner supplies or pays extra for grain. The animal owner just shows up to ride, everything else in taken care of.


----------



## BUFF

LapeerLandscape said:


> Do you remember the old registers that would ring up No Sale and the drawer would open.


Billy Goats Tavern under Meatchicken Ave in Chicago has one of those registers, it's also a cash only place.


----------



## Mr.Markus

Randall Ave said:


> The large bills go under the bill separator in the drawer. Not in the guys pocket, money has to be counted out at the end of the day, or shift. I dated a lot of waitresses.


You wonder how auditors catch these guys. When a $35 tab puts the till out $165..


----------



## Randall Ave

Mr.Markus said:


> You wonder how auditors catch these guys. When a $35 tab puts the till out $165..


I don't screw around with that. The state came in once years ago.. wanted a clutch replace estimate. It was a sting thing , well dressed couple. Started to beat me up for cash. I told them same price. Then I told them something is bull. Trucks new, clutch is fine, no way it's your truck, your to much of a suit. They came clean. Said they were from the state checking for things like that.


----------



## m_ice

cwren2472 said:


> Not sure how pocketing the cash changes anything for him in that case. I would have assumed he didnt want the $100 bill visible on the drawer


Well they only accept cash and I'm sure that $100 never made it to the books.I knew what he was doing and didn't really care and he knew I knew.


----------



## FredG

m_ice said:


> Well they only accept cash and I'm sure that $100 never made it to the books.I knew what he was doing and didn't really care and he knew I knew.


 He wanted that crisp $100. bill in his pocket. Lots of them restaurant owners by there meat, seafood etc down on the docks and pay cash.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> A good friend is a farrier he takes checks and cash, if his customer is paying cash he offers a 5% discount and has quite a few people take advantage of it.


Pretty sure farriers do quite a bit of unreported income. Not that I blame them.


----------



## Randall Ave

Mark Oomkes said:


> Pretty sure farriers do quite a bit of unreported income. Not that I blame them.


Hardly ever any cash here. But there is a guy coming in to get his truck in n a few days. Over 3G. He will pay in tens an twenties.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

framer1901 said:


> It's us in the service industry that's not used to it. You don't notice the fees on the $150 bills but send a bill out on a 30k landscape job and have it come back with a cc# on it, that sucks.


But...you start doing enough $150 transactions and it adds up.



framer1901 said:


> I like my money in my pocket - not in your cashback account or mileage balance.


I'll admit, I'm a hypocrite, I have those same CCs and use them as much as possible.


----------



## Randall Ave

Mark Oomkes said:


> But...you start doing enough $150 transactions and it adds up.
> 
> I'll admit, I'm a hypocrite, I have those same CCs and use them as much as possible.


If you guys are doing a 30 thousand dollar job. Don't you discuss payment before you start?


----------



## cwren2472

Randall Ave said:


> Hardly ever any cash here. But there is a guy coming in to get his truck in n a few days. Over 3G. He will pay in tens an twenties.


If he pulls out ones, wear gloves


----------



## FredG

Randall Ave said:


> If you guys are doing a 30 thousand dollar job. Don't you discuss payment before you start?


 Private of course, Never been asked if I take CC on commercial. I always ask how they plan on paying, some will say let me worry about that. Red flag time to ask for money down or walk away.


----------



## sota

Have any of you considered things like Venmo or other similar not-paypal-but-like-paypal alternative e-payment sites/services?



Hydromaster said:


> What does the small print on every bill/note say?
> 
> This note is Legal tender for ALL depts,
> Public and private.
> 
> It's un-American to not except cash and maybe even illegal .
> 
> Jmo


There's going to be some hotly contested debate surrounding that coming up, as (iirc) Illinois already has a law making it illegal to NOT accept cash as payment and NJ is attempting to. The interesting bit is, if you read the various legal cases, especially SCOTUS ones, as well as the Legal Tender Act, you'll find that a strong case can be made that private business has the authority to not take cash as payment.


----------



## m_ice

FredG said:


> He wanted that crisp $100. bill in his pocket. Lots of them restaurant owners by there meat, seafood etc down on the docks and pay cash.


In the midwest? I'll go with that.


----------



## m_ice

sota said:


> Have any of you considered things like Venmo or other similar not-paypal-but-like-paypal alternative e-payment sites/services?
> 
> There's going to be some hotly contested debate surrounding that coming up, as (iirc) Illinois already has a law making it illegal to NOT accept cash as payment and NJ is attempting to. The interesting bit is, if you read the various legal cases, especially SCOTUS ones, as well as the Legal Tender Act, you'll find that a strong case can be made that private business has the authority to not take cash as payment.


I haven't heard about the IL law. I like cash but side with the business in that its their choice. Most large companies wont accept, I'm not sure if it's because it makes them susceptible to employee theft? The bank deposits? Or what?


----------



## sota

LapeerLandscape said:


> Do you remember the old registers that would ring up No Sale and the drawer would open.


There's a pizza joint in Freehold, NJ (Vinnie's) that used to have an absolute fossil of a cash register they continued to use. I went in there one time this year while visiting mom, and it was gone. I asked the grandson (yes, it's a family affair) what happened; he told me it finally broke such that they couldn't repair it any longer. I actually shed a tear over the loss. That thing was an icon and fixture of the place.


----------



## cwren2472

m_ice said:


> I haven't heard about the IL law. I like cash but side with the business in that its their choice. Most large companies wont accept, I'm not sure if it's because it makes them susceptible to employee theft? The bank deposits? Or what?


Our local department of revenue branch does not accept cash or credit card for payment of taxes. Check/money order only.

When asked about it, their reasons for being told not to accept cash were numerous.

Logistics of depositing cash, security needed for keeping huge sums of cash on hand, manpower needed to count and verify the authenticity of large quantities of cash

I suspect security was the biggest one


----------



## sota

m_ice said:


> I haven't heard about the IL law. I like cash but side with the business in that its their choice. Most large companies wont accept, I'm not sure if it's because it makes them susceptible to employee theft? The bank deposits? Or what?


I haven't decided which way I want to fall on this issue.
I'm predominantly a let the free market sort it out kind of guy.
But it seems that if the economy is to work, the only actual form of Legal Tender out there shouldn't be restricted in its use. I also have a problem with places that claim they will refuse $50, $100, or greater denominations.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Pretty sure farriers do quite a bit of unreported income. Not that I blame them.


I would have to think a lot of ag industry related transactions that are made with cash are put into a "retirement fund".....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Randall Ave said:


> If you guys are doing a 30 thousand dollar job. Don't you discuss payment before you start?


To a point...but you still get the one guy that accepts a quote then wants to put 30% down on his CC.


----------



## FredG

When making payments to AuctionsInternational. They have your card info, They give you the price with the 3% on it. Then below that they have payments made with certified funds without the 3%. Under that non discounted bal due. I never pay the 3% I go to the bank and get a bank check to them, does not cost anything.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Mark Oomkes said:


> Pretty sure farriers do quite a bit of unreported income. Not that I blame them.


Sounds like they would rather make $100. and not $65. or what ever tax bracket they are in.


----------



## framer1901

Randall Ave said:


> If you guys are doing a 30 thousand dollar job. Don't you discuss payment before you start?


Yes no sorta - Paid when done - I've quoted work for people I feel uncomfortable with but have really only done big jobs for existing clients or friends of clients, never had a problem. I have more problems with $200 one off jobs then anything - @#$#$%#@@


----------



## m_ice

framer1901 said:


> Yes no sorta - Paid when done - I've quoted work for people I feel uncomfortable with but have really only done big jobs for existing clients or friends of clients, never had a problem. I have more problems with $200 one off jobs then anything - @#$#$%#@@


Every job I do has terms especially ones with friends, if it dont have terms then I'm just doing it to help them out as a favor. I dont have a lot of friends but I would like to keep the ones I do have.


----------



## 1olddogtwo

http://www.plowslick.com/

Is all I have to say on the issue.


----------



## framer1901

m_ice said:


> Every job I do has terms especially ones with friends, if it dont have terms then I'm just doing it to help them out as a favor. I dont have a lot of friends but I would like to keep the ones I do have.


Working for friends is a great way to donate your time and my friends don't really need any handouts - my donations that I do do are by my choice.

I work for friends of existing clients - referrals....... But - I don't work anymore!!!! Well, I gotta plow snow 24 more times this year, then I'm done.

I've been very fortunate over the years to have very minimal billing issues, terms are spelled out in quotes but we don't spell out cash, check or CC - we just use the word payment.


----------



## tpendagast

Randall Ave said:


> If you guys are doing a 30 thousand dollar job. Don't you discuss payment before you start?


You mean like "how" they are going to pay?

Not especially 
The contract is all about what 
How much and 
THAT they are going to pay 
Not specifically how

I recall back in 2001 I had a 45k job (which was huge for me then) and the customer paid in brown paper bags of cash... I thought they were handing me lunch or something

I was like "Er mah gerd! I thought I was going to get jumped by banditos on the way to the bank!


----------



## the Suburbanite

tpendagast said:


> on the way to the bank!


hahahaha


----------



## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> Pretty sure farriers do quite a bit of unreported income. Not that I blame them.


 My friends son is working with a farrier actually in training I'm pretty sure he's getting cash. I had a step van that I thought would be to my advantage in construction. I was wrong I sold it to a farrier he works at the race track almost everyday.

Yes the trainers are eager to give him cash just so he shows in a reasonable amount of time. Besides being a skinflint with the old step van he appears to be doing well.


----------



## FredG

m_ice said:


> Every job I do has terms especially ones with friends, if it dont have terms then I'm just doing it to help them out as a favor. I dont have a lot of friends but I would like to keep the ones I do have.


 Had a friend that had a big low spot behind his shop, had another friend that was excavating at the hospital. Brought in about 500 ton and dozed it down compacted and put a layer of millings I got from a contractor.

Never talked no money I grew up across the street from him and I was not quite as smart as I am now business wise. Said he would pay but kept avoiding me and wanted to barter.

I got a little hot and chased him into his shop and he locked the door. Same day I went to the court house. The most I could sue him for was $5k I was only asking for 2k. The judge did not care for him because he has been before her to many times and awarded me the whole $5K by her numbers she thought it was fare.

He still did not want to pay me and kept holding me off. The judge told him his licence would be suspended if he did not pay. He finally sent me a check but lost a good friend in the process. Needless to say if I'm not donating I want everything in writing and both parties agreeing.


----------



## Hydromaster

Hugh,

If you won your court case,why did you have to chase him down and then take him to court again just so they could threaten to take us some license away?

Around here if you win your case and they don’t pay you then go back to the judge and they will order the sheriff to get the money out of the guys bank account for you.


----------



## FredG

Hydromaster said:


> Hugh,
> 
> If you won your court case,why did you have to chase him down and then take him to court again just so they could threaten to take us some license away?
> 
> Around here if you win your case and they don't pay you then go back to the judge and they will order the sheriff to get the money out of the guys bank account for you.


Look Man, I have no idea what they do where you live. The Judge give him 30 days to pay, he did not pay. I went back to the Judge and told her he did not pay me. She threaten to suspend his drivers licence and sent a sheriff down there to tell him to pay. I never chased him after court I just asked him to pay.

FYI NYS can not draw money out of your account. If he said forget the license I would not got my money. Being that he works for the City no license would mean him losing his $50K per yr job.

Anything else you don't know or understand???


----------



## Mr.Markus

Who's Hugh...!


----------



## Hydromaster

I don’t think that’s how it works even in New York City
the judge will get the money for you by taking it out of the bank account. the sheriff is the tool by which this is done otherwise taking somebody to court would have no teeth even if suspending the drivers license.
Not everybody drives or cares to.

A judge can do whatever they want and it’s perfectly legal and is the common course of action to get money from someone who will not pay in a court case.

The sheriff never show up at your door and go hey bub you need to pay this bill and I’m going to stand here and wait till you do. 

The shaiff of takes the paperwork (that’s his job moving the judge just paperwork along )to the bank where he withdraws the money it then goes into the sheriffs departments fund and then the sheriff department cuts you a check.


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## FredG

Hydromaster said:


> I don't think that's how it works even in New York City
> the judge will get the money for you by taking it out of the bank account. the sheriff is the tool by which this is done otherwise taking somebody to court would have no teeth even if suspending the drivers license.
> Not everybody drives or cares to.
> 
> A judge can do whatever they want and it's perfectly legal and is the common course of action to get money from someone who will not pay in a court case.


 Really, by your comments I think your on dynamite.


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## cwren2472

Hydromaster said:


> I don't think that's how it works even in New York City
> the judge will get the money for you by taking it out of the bank account. the sheriff is the tool by which this is done otherwise taking somebody to court would have no teeth even if suspending the drivers license.


Yeah, definitely NOT how it works here.

After they default in paying, we have to return to court and only then does the Judge decide if they want to issue a warrant for the default. If so, they still do nothing until the guy gets pulled over for something else and arrested. At that point, he goes back to court and the whole procedure happens again.


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## Hydromaster

Sure is...

http://nycourts.gov/courthelp/AfterCourt/enforcementOfficer.shtml

*People Who Collect the Debtor's Money*
If the Debtor doesn't pay, after you find the Debtor's money, you can hire an enforcement officer. An enforcement officer is a sheriff, local police officer, city marshal or town or village constable who is authorized to take money or property from the Debtor to pay your judgment. Contact the court if you want to learn how to find an enforcement officer. Use the court locator box.

You have to pay the enforcement officer to collect the Debtor's money or property. The enforcement officer may charge you a fee in advance. The enforcement officer can also charge you for mileage fee. Sometimes these fees are added to the money that the Debtor owes you. If you and the Debtor agree to settle after you hire an enforcement officer, you will have to pay the enforcement officer's fees, whether he or she helped you or not.

You must give the enforcement officer the information you know or found out about the Debtor's money. Visit Finding the Debtor's Money to learn more.


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## BossPlow2010

Hydromaster said:


> Hugh,
> 
> If you won your court case,why did you have to chase him down and then take him to court again just so they could threaten to take us some license away?
> 
> Around here if you win your case and they don't pay you then go back to the judge and they will order the sheriff to get the money out of the guys bank account for you.


Not how it works here.
What if they don't have the money in their account


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## FredG

Hydromaster said:


> Sure is...
> 
> http://nycourts.gov/courthelp/AfterCourt/enforcementOfficer.shtml
> 
> *People Who Collect the Debtor's Money*
> If the Debtor doesn't pay, after you find the Debtor's money, you can hire an enforcement officer. An enforcement officer is a sheriff, local police officer, city marshal or town or village constable who is authorized to take money or property from the Debtor to pay your judgment. Contact the court if you want to learn how to find an enforcement officer. Use the court locator box.
> 
> You have to pay the enforcement officer to collect the Debtor's money or property. The enforcement officer may charge you a fee in advance. The enforcement officer can also charge you for mileage fee. Sometimes these fees are added to the money that the Debtor owes you. If you and the Debtor agree to settle after you hire an enforcement officer, you will have to pay the enforcement officer's fees, whether he or she helped you or not.
> 
> You must give the enforcement officer the information you know or found out about the Debtor's money. Visit Finding the Debtor's Money to learn more.


 Ya I don't know how it went down, Your right and I'm wrong. When two Tuesdays come together.


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## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> I don't think that's how it works even in New York City
> the judge will get the money for you by taking it out of the bank account. the sheriff is the tool by which this is done otherwise taking somebody to court would have no teeth even if suspending the drivers license.
> Not everybody drives or cares to.
> 
> A judge can do whatever they want and it's perfectly legal and is the common course of action to get money from someone who will not pay in a court case.
> 
> The sheriff never show up at your door and go hey bub you need to pay this bill and I'm going to stand here and wait till you do.
> 
> The shaiff of takes the paperwork (that's his job moving the judge just paperwork along )to the bank where he withdraws the money it then goes into the sheriffs departments fund and then the sheriff department cuts you a check.


I have a question for you as the number of times that I have have been to court to try to get money out of people and never seen said money. It is rather shocking that it is so easy for you to get money where you are...

So when the guy has no bank account or no money in the bank account... what does the sheriff do then... start digging holes in the fella's back yard and looking for his mason jars?

AND before you tell me they garnish his wages... they are self employed


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## Hydromaster

I sued a guy for a few thousand dollars, I won he did not pay .I went back to the judge he reads the order back into court, it’s not up to him to decide if he shall or shall not issue a warrant for the cash he shall issue .its the law.
The warrant is taking to the sheriff who fills the judges order.


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## Mr.Markus

Pretty sure if I found a debtors money I would be considered a mugger at that point.


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## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> I have a question for you as the number of times that I have have been to court to try to get money out of people and never seen said money. It is rather shocking that it is so easy for you to get money where you are...
> 
> So when the guy has no bank account or no money in the bank account... what does the sheriff do then... start digging holes in the fella's back yard and looking for his mason jars?
> 
> AND before you tell me they garnish his wages... they are self employed


 You can throw all the apples you want in with the oranges

Does your self employed people have any assets Michael home car boat motorcycle or any other asset?

Have you ever heard of A sheriff sale or the IRS auctioning off somebody's possessions to for fill their debt?

The sheriff could take your nice shiny truck you pay cash for and sell it he doesn't really care how much she gets for your truck he just needs enough money to fill the debt if you need to sell your boat to he will.

And then they'll go after the tax return and even those poor folks who are the n general assistance get a tax return it might take you a long time but you can get that tax return money to


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## FredG

Philbilly2 said:


> I have a question for you as the number of times that I have have been to court to try to get money out of people and never seen said money. It is rather shocking that it is so easy for you to get money where you are...
> 
> So when the guy has no bank account or no money in the bank account... what does the sheriff do then... start digging holes in the fella's back yard and looking for his mason jars?
> 
> AND before you tell me they garnish his wages... they are self employed


 This is why they suspend your license, I'll take my privilege to drive before I worry about $5K.


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## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> You can throw all the apples you want in with the oranges
> 
> Does your self employed people have any assets Michael home car boat motorcycle or any other asset?
> 
> Have you ever heard of A sheriff sale or the IRS auctioning off somebody's possessions to for fill their debt?
> 
> The sheriff could take your nice shiny truck you pay cash for and sell it he doesn't really care how much she gets for your truck he just needs enough money to fill the debt if you need to sell your boat to he will.
> 
> And then they'll go after the tax return and even those poor folks who are the n general assistance get a tax return it might take you a long time but you can get that tax return money to


Does not work... no assets in his name. Only in his sons name.


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## Hydromaster

http://nycourts.gov/courthelp/AfterCourt/collectionBasics.shtml

Collection tools

It's the same in every state in the country


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## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> And then they'll go after the tax return and even those poor folks who are the n general assistance get a tax return it might take you a long time but you can get that tax return money to


And this must be why I still don't have my money yet...


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## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> Does not work... no assets in his name. Only in his sons name.


nothing is perfect in this world.

I'm just telling you how it works not hearsay from somebody else.

If you don't want to keep pushing it to the judge and keep getting the sheriff to go after him then no action will take place if you just sit there everybody else would just sit there too.

There are no guarantees in this world .

And as I lined out that's how the court system works


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## cwren2472

Hydromaster said:


> http://nycourts.gov/courthelp/AfterCourt/collectionBasics.shtml
> 
> Collection tools
> 
> It's the same in every state in the country


Are you saying that the "NY Courts" website automatically applies to every other state?


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## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> OK slick Willy.
> nothing is perfect in this world.
> 
> I'm just telling you how it works not hearsay from somebody else


I understand your point... just telling you what sometimes people are dealing with. 

He was a good business man when he started renting from me, but as time went on, he got more and more shady. When I tried to collect in court, he has no income, no assets, he lives in a house that his mom owns... every time my lawyer thinks he has him, he slips into another rabbit hole again. :angry:


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## Hydromaster

cwren2472 said:


> Are you saying that the "NY Courts" website automatically applies to every other state?


Yes and no

Ordinances or local laws they make do not automatically affect everyone in the land but they could .

If judge orders it and makes it a law then yes it's the same everywhere.
You have heard that the courts are uniformed across the land.
Even though some ordinances and laws may be different
How old the court functions is the same in every judicial district in the land.

Sure there may be some small differences but basically , yes it's the same here as it is there.


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## FredG

Hydromaster said:


> nothing is perfect in this world.
> 
> I'm just telling you how it works not hearsay from somebody else.
> 
> If you don't want to keep pushing it to the judge and keep getting the sheriff to go after him then no action will take place if you just sit there everybody else would just sit there too.
> 
> There are no guarantees in this world .
> 
> And as I lined out that's how the court system works


 Oh now you want to call Phil names? Nothing new out of your 32 posts. You need to back off. you are dead wrong. This was a town court not the government. all of us no the government does what they want.


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## Hydromaster

FredG said:


> Oh now you want to call Phil names? Nothing new out of your 32 posts. You need to back off. you are dead wrong. This was a town court not the government. all of us no the government does what they want.


 Town, federal, state, city court that is the government

Yeah, I called him slick Willy after I've been called names like dence ,been told I don't know anything... As I only have 32 posts
I didn't think your skin or his was is so thin.

As I see you and him calling people names all the time.

pot to kettle
And by reading a few of your posts I have come to understand that postcount does not equal knowledge


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## FredG

Quit putting up Government links. Town court is not the same thing.   :hammerhead:


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## cwren2472

Hydromaster said:


> Yeah, I called him slick Willy after I've been called names like dence ,
> As I see you and him calling people names all the time.


Project much?


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## cwren2472

I suspect this thread is going to be getting a visit soon


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## Hydromaster

He Probably will
as the status quo around here is to attack the new guy, hazing or whatever you wanna call it.


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## FredG

Hydromaster said:


> Yeah, I called him slick Willy after I've been called names like dence ,been told I don't know anything... As I only have 32 posts
> I didn't think your skin or his was is so thin.
> 
> As I see you and him calling people names all the time.
> 
> pot to kettle
> And by reading a few of your posts I have come to understand that postcount does not equal knowledge


 Your right I don't even plow snow. I forgot more than you will ever know. Good start, It appears to me the Members think your wrong. We all uneducated accept for you. Your out numbered, give it a rest.


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## Hydromaster

I guess nobody can tell Fred anything
Fred knows everything.
He’s forgotten more than somebody he has never met will ever know.
A bit Egotisticical aren’t you ?


Fred, I have a question what are the branches of government.


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## BUFF

Lets all sing along and get back on topic.....


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## FredG

Hydromaster said:


> He Probably will
> as the status quo around here is to attack the new guy, hazing or whatever you wanna call it.


 There is nobody here that cares if your new member or not. You actually think if I'm wrong or anybody else we don't get told about it. SKWN. Just don't come here contradicting the whole board with 32 posts.

You could be trolling for all we know. You got to earn it, You have not done this yet. Maybe go back and start reading again where you contradicted me and everybody else posts. Hopefully you will change your mind and gain a little respect. Good Luck


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## FredG

Hydromaster said:


> I guess nobody can tell Fred anything
> Fred knows everything.
> He's forgotten more than somebody he has never met will ever know.
> A bit Egotisticical aren't you ?
> 
> Fred, I have a question what are the branches of government.


 You Got that right, you will never know me. Your right I didn't know you were a Lawyer. Now you want to quiz me. What about everybody else disagreeing with you.

I tell you what I will discontinue replying to you when you prove your not a troll. Have a nice day.


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## cwren2472

Hydromaster said:


> He Probably will
> as the status quo around here is to attack the new guy, hazing or whatever you wanna call it.


Yeah, actually the only person who threw insults in this thread and called people names was you.

Not sure how that qualifies as hazing.


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## Mr.Markus

It’s getting a little personal over a difference of opinion....
I can get carried away when your first post is “price this lot for me” I have younger competitors who flat out ask what I charge for places I do, Like they think my answer is going to be honest. There are differences in what both of you are quoting I think and it has to do with small claims and large ones, don’t get your arses in a bunch as you both are technically right. But I’m Canadian so what do I know about US court collections...


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## Philbilly2

FredG said:


> Oh now you want to call Phil names?


That was the nicest thing I have called yet today 

I took no offence to it what so ever.


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## Mike_PS

ok, let's get back to the credit card fees discussion and refrain from he said, she said and/or calling anyone names please


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## Oakplow

I pass the fees onto my customers. I use to eat it as an expense but as a small business those dollars are important to me. I justify this as I accept any types of payments. If the customer does not want to pay the fees they can pay cash or check. I am one of the only companies in the area that is accepting credit cards and its alot easier for them to pay online than take a check out. I had some push back from some customers but I explained to them that I'm providing an easier alternative for them to pay and that they have other options if they do not want to pay the fees.


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## Mr.Markus

The other thing people forget is that a lot of people have point or cash back cards now so they prefer to pay by CC.
I know that I do, so I know where those fees you are paying are going.
Every appliance in my house comes from air miles....
Although I don’t buy vehicles as often as some of you guys, gm points and drivers rewards have saved me about $10k in 20 years, that’s nice for something that defers payment for 20 days when you’re spending anyway.


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