# I Have Come To This Conclusion...



## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

OK, here goes... I have owned MANY different makes and models of trucks in the last 15 years. From Chevys to Fords and now to Dodge. I can honestly say (with no doubt in my mind) that NONE of them make a reliable truck anymore! 
I ended 2004 with a new ford f250 SD with 6.0L diesel, long bed, ext. cab, plow prep, FX4. That truck lasted me all of about 7 months, which by then, was on its 2nd turbocharger after blowing the first one apart and thru my hood, and on my 3rd transmission, the first two of which again literally blew holes through the sides of the case within the first 1100 miles!!!! 
I then went with a Chevy 2500HD crewcab, shortbed, plowprep, W/T and got the 6.0L gas engine that time. It was back to the dealer within the first 7000 miles because my brake booster malfunctioned while I was on an EXIT ramp from the freeway, sending my sailing through the intersection! Lucky no one else was there! Then, I had the infamous Steering issue, along with U joints and still had less than 15000 miles. Finally, a different clunk in the front end got me out of that one, along with a MYSTERIOUS shake (again the U joints) according to the dealer. 
Now I'm in my new 06 Dodge CTD auto, crew cab, short bed, opted for the BIG HORN package after not liking to crank my windows and worked in the extended warranty. THANK GOD! I've got just a hair over 6000 miles on this one and at about 4000 miles started to notice that it was pulling a little to the right. That was also the same time I put on my BOSS undercarriage and I had thought that maybe once the undercarriage was torqued, it maybe drew the front end out of alignment. SO..... I took it to a CONRADS up the street where I have taken many of my vehicles to so that I could get an alignment done. Of course now, not having had time to go right away due to work and what not, my slight pull to the right is now a severe pull to the right and is extremely feathering the right tire and slightly the left. Unfortunatley, Conrad's called me back 25 minutes after I dropped off the truck and told me to take it back to the dealer ASAP. Why you might ask????? BECAUSE THE F'IN UPPER BALL JOINTS ON THE RIGHT SIDE ARE COMPLETELY SHOT!!!!!!!!! Can anyone sense my frustration!!! We are expecting snow finally in the next few weeks and now my truck will probably not see any of it by the time I can take it to the dealer! Glad I haven't been driving around with my plow already!
After all these problems with the domestics, and GOD HELP ME I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT IM ABOUT TO SAY, I am one of the biggest fans of Toyota coming out with a heavy duty full size truck! A toyota is the only truck I ever owned (back in high school) that NEVER gave me any problems, even with 130000 miles on it. So.....
To the BIG 3 here it is....... WAKE THE F%$# UP!!!!!!


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## murray83 (Dec 3, 2005)

I agree with you,I'm very interested in seeing its specs when its released and seeing just how much a blow this will come to the big 3.

Who ever decided to turn trucks into overpriced luxury cars needs to be shot,its pretty bad when 3/4 tons now are not reccomended for plows


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## yzf1000_rider (Oct 24, 2003)

well i work for one of the big 3. well let me rephrase that used to work for 1 of the big three (ford) iam taking a buyout in jan and laid off right now. and i have to agree with the past comments i have owned everything from a truck to a damn gremlin and a toyota. and that toyota truck had 180000 miles when the engine went bad and i just went in and did a re-ring and lapped the valves with a new timing chain and i used the same oil pump and the thing lasted me another 20000 before i sold it and to my knoledge it is still going strong today.


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## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

I worked for “MA” when they rolled out the new body style 94 up and need less to say I can rebuild the older 72-93 trucks as to buying a newer one. 

CTD is solid motor but the auto is the weak link in the drive train. Ball joints and wheel bearings are the ones in the body. I have no idea how the new non Dana rear are (I have not had to work on them) 

I dont forsee toyota trucks being anything like the old 70's 80's yoda buckets that had no power but ran forever with them R20 r22 motors.

I put over $6000 in a truck, and got a new truck. 
Motor $1250 Rebuild
86 2wd body $750
727 rebuild $550
Dana 60 rebuilds $250
NP 205 rebuild $150
Old rusty 77 Sno commander $750 for frame and plow….

Bunch of other odds and ends, heater core, window motors, CD player. I can rebuild it few times before I hit the 40-50 K price of new truck. An $6000 rebuild will last 6 or 7 hard years, where new truck last 10 to 15 years


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

I agree with this post. However, I love my '04 Ram! I do think that they just don't make trucks like they used too. Back in the day it was all about making a reliable, tough and lost lasting truck. My dad has two 1973 F-250's. They are not in mint condition, but they just keep on going. My first truck was a 1986 F250 351W C6 auto 4x4 and 8' Fisher. I still kick myself for selling that truck. It was solid, ran great and plowed like a tank. It had no frills other than cruise control. That's when trucks were made to be trucks. These days it's all about the options you can get. Whenever I hear somebody talking about their new truck it's always about the "cool options" they got in it. I could care less about being able to control the climate on each side of the truck or having the best rims offered. I want steel plain rims, leaf springs, straight axle, manual transfer case, a RELIABLE engine over a POWERFUL engine and easy to maintain. My Dodge has all that but the leaf spring front end. I have absolutely no interest in the new 2007 or 2008 models from any auto manufacturer. They are all ugly and with the big 3 in competition with each other I think the quality control has been over looked just so they can be the first to claim their truck is out. I am keeping the truck I got and at some point I will buy another just like it or even older and then just keep them going. If you have to pay over 30 or 40 grand that better be the best truck built, but really it doesn't seem it these days. I do love my Ram though!


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## ProWorkz.com (Nov 29, 2004)

*I agree*

I agree that Ford, Chevy and Dodge have their issues. But as for putting a plow on a 30K plus truck in my oppinion is just asking for trouble. I personally do not own a plow truck and never will. Even a "plow package" on a truck is a joke.

As long as Dodge takes care of the issues then don't worry about. That is why you have the warranty.

Spruce Land is your truck lifted? Big tires and rims? Do you 4 x 4 with it a lot? Do you tow a lot?

Good luck with your truck ......

I do love Dodge Diesels myself.....

Here is my work truck..

94 CTD with 195,000 450 HP and 985 TQ.


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## TEX (Nov 24, 2003)

*Ddoge*

I'll agree it seems that we(truck buyers) have had to "settle" for what they make instead of buying what we want. not to mention pay more for it bc if has all the stuff on it. i know that you can never make everyone happy but gees at least try, dont just say ah they will buy it bc they love chevy or ford, not bc of how its built. my last truck was a 01 Dodge 2500 Quad cab CTD 4x4 long bed 5spd and i drove it for over 70K miles all the waqy up to 108,000 and only had the lift pump go out at 100,000 miles. my current truck in an 06 Dodge Quad cab short bed CTD 4x4 auto with the big horn pkg.nice truck but at only 2500 miles i noticed motor oil spray all over the air intake (driver side where it goes into the motor after inter-cooler) and on the radiator hosed on the driver side as well. As you can guess i thought Bull S***-- my brand new just off the lot $43,000+ sticker price w/$5,600 Cummins Turbo Diesel option leaking oil. So crawling under the truck i go- started looking around and ohhhhhhh then i saw it oil dripping from the pulley and belt area. My first thought was front main seal- to the dealer we go ......sure enough its the front main seal.... DANG i say brand new truck with only 2,500 miles on it leaking oil. Yes i drove very very easy on this truck while i "broke it in". Now after that novel i do love the truck- Ford well the 6.0 PSD is a nightmare and Chevy is... well a Chevy... love Dodge and love the Cummins thats why i bought me second one and my first Brand new truck.


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## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

This truck is just about brand new. I just bought it on August 2nd. Its never been plowed with, offroaded or pulled more than an empty 2500 lb. trailer a couple times from my home to my shop. It is completely stock except for the plow undercarriage. I know that warranties are around for problems just like this, that is why I negotiated the extended warranty into the price of this one because I knew that this would have to be my last purchase for awhile and I needed some sort of assurance. That being said... I don't care how many times they take care of any problem, or how willing they are to make amends about it... a day without my truck is a day without my truck, which translates into a day with one less crew working, or having to sub out a few of my lots and so forth. Not to mention the fact that I have two full time jobs. Getting to be home with my fiance or dogs or whoever is tough enough as it is. Let alone now having to take precious hours out of my already overbooked week find a problem, call a dealer, schedule an appointment, drop it off, hitch a ride, go back and get it, etc. The point is that every time one of my trucks is down, its costing me more than just a headache, it costs time and as everyone knows in this business, TIME IS MONEY!! Just needed to vent =o) again.. lol Thanks Chuck
I wish there was a way to copy this thread to the other truck forums, I'd be interested to see what the Chevy and Ford guys have to say...


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## itsgottobegreen (Mar 31, 2004)

I told my toyota dealer I want to know the first day that you can order the 3/4 ton diesel toyota. Because I want a white, super cab, 4x4, diesel, plow prep asap.


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## mrbrickman (Nov 13, 2006)

so glad i rebuilt her........1985 f-350 diesel auto 9' plow.....ugh shes perfect..


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## mrbrickman (Nov 13, 2006)

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/einar1210/photo/294928803579072937/7

so glad i rebuilt her........1985 f-350 diesel auto 9' plow.....ugh shes perfect..

hey how can i get pics on the page, i tgried inserting an image by the url to the yahoo pics page but the single pic wouoldnt come...i even tried right clicking and getting the link to just the pic by itself through properties ....and still it wont come up...


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## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

Hey Spruce I hate to tell you this but all 4 ball joints are going to go this winter season. And the big 3 all have this same problem. Somewhere in the excutive offices of Dodge,Chevy and Ford they had a confernece call and decided it would be a good idea to start putting sealed front ends in trucks. I am sure they all got a good laugh when they came with that idea. So you have 2 opitions. Wait out the warranty and keep changing them as needed. Or take the plunge now and go down and buy a set of moog adjustable Ball joints that you can grease. Maybe ask the dealer to work something out with you. But the dealer is just going to install the same sealed ones tha wont last more than 40-50k if you are lucky.


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## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

I would be much more appreciative of a set of ball joints that lasted me 40-50k miles while plowing with them at this point instead of a set that didn't even let me get 6k out of them with doing nothing more than running me back and forth to the shop and going on estimates. I am willing to accept that when you work a vehicle, stuff goes wrong. But its not acceptable when the vehicle is still new and hasn't seen a day of work yet! lol On top of that, as much as I have complained about the BIG 3 here, none of the Chevys or Fords that I have had in the past 3 or 4 years have needed ball joints, and that was after a few good plow seasons (not including last year obviously).


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

Ford had major issues company wide with tranny's and IH almost lost the contracts with Ford over those engines in the 04/05 trucks. TONS of them blew up turbos, sensors, and transmissions. You were not alone. Chevy's issues are a CEO that's been out of touch with the world for 20 years. Oh, and trying to make trucks that ride like a caddy....
Dodge took a heavy duty truck engine and put it in a stock light duty chassis, hence the front end issues (which have all but been resolved accoring to the industry and most owners) and a transmission designed for a gas engine's output mated to a diesel, which has also been corrected.

There are issues in quality which will always exist from simple sheer numbers- and no manufacturer is exempt from it. Toyota's of the 1980's would run for 300K miles IF you could patch the rust fast enough, and didn;t mind rebuilding the transmissions every 75 K miles or so, don;t expect miracles in the full size truck from them. Been there, done that.

If we all used our trucks for the intended purpose and not overloading the hell out of it regularly (like putting a vbox with 3 yards of sand in the back of a 2500.....)they'd last a lot longer in most cases too.

Some people just have bad luck with vehicles.
The sealed front ends are a factor of the public's lack of maintenance. A sealed joint of any kind will outlast an unsealed greasable joint in the same application if left ungreased, so since the average Joe Truck owner doesn;t grease the front end or ujoints but maybe once a year the sealed ones are the better option. Even with regular service a good sealed joiunt will often outlast a greasable one. Still on the stock original Dana sealed ujoints in the rear drive on my 96 Ram. 
Anyone who plows knows a plow package is often necessary to retain a warranty, plus benificial for a working truck.

Don;t sweat it as long as Dodge is fixing the truck under warranty it's not a big deal in the scope of things.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

I agree 100% with this post, my 2005 Ram has had more then a few problems with it in its short 35,000 mile life. Personally I think that the dealer is starting to get sick of seeing it in the there all the time. I drop it off in the morning and they call back an hour or so later tell me its done and and that they can't find the problem. I have owned all of the "big three" at one time or another and I can honestly say that they truly are junk now days.


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## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

Epic Lawn Care said:


> I agree 100% with this post, my 2005 Ram has had more then a few problems with it in its short 35,000 mile life. Personally I think that the dealer is starting to get sick of seeing it in the there all the time. I drop it off in the morning and they call back an hour or so later tell me its done and and that they can't find the problem. I have owned all of the "big three" at one time or another and I can honestly say that they truly are junk now days.


I think what the major problem is... It's people like you who go out an buy 2500 to save a few bucks. Then you slap a 10ft plow on it. Those Blizzards are heavy and they will put them on anything just to sell them. Then you hook up your trailer with your Bobcat on the back of it. From what I can see you should own at least a 3500/dually instead of a longbox 2500 that Dodges does not want a plow on. So if you are going to use these things as heavy duty work trucks then you should have bought the heaviest package you could have found. Not what was the cheapest and easiest to park at the mall.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

BigDave12768 said:


> I think what the major problem is... It's people like you who go out an buy 2500 to save a few bucks. Then you slap a 10ft plow on it. Those Blizzards are heavy and they will put them on anything just to sell them. Then you hook up your trailer with your Bobcat on the back of it. From what I can see you should own at least a 3500/dually instead of a longbox 2500 that Dodges does not want a plow on. So if you are going to use these things as heavy duty work trucks then you should have bought the heaviest package you could have found. Not what was the cheapest and easiest to park at the mall.


Once again I see that we are jumping to conclusions on this site............


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## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

Epic Lawn Care said:


> Once again I see that we are jumping to conclusions on this site............


I am jumping to conclusions???? You have a 10ft plow listed as being on a 2500!!!


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## TRUE TURF LAWN (Sep 12, 2005)

BigDave12768 said:


> I think what the major problem is... It's people like you who go out an buy 2500 to save a few bucks. Then you slap a 10ft plow on it. Those Blizzards are heavy and they will put them on anything just to sell them. Then you hook up your trailer with your Bobcat on the back of it. From what I can see you should own at least a 3500/dually instead of a longbox 2500 that Dodges does not want a plow on. So if you are going to use these things as heavy duty work trucks then you should have bought the heaviest package you could have found. Not what was the cheapest and easiest to park at the mall.


 the blizzard plow weight is 900lbs the western v-plow is around 900lbs its not the plow that always causes problems.and yes when you plow **** brakes but **** brakes to when you just drive it around. its how cheaply made the new trucks are and how much they cost thats the problem.


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## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

BIG DAVE, you might want to do a little more research on the difference between a 2500 dodge and a 3500 dodge. the front axle gross weight rating on them is the same! The gross vehicle weight rating on a single wheel 3500 and a 2500 with the same drivetrain is only about 6-700 lbs more, and thats just due to the increased springs in the rear. Not always is having a dually appropriate for every line of work. If the big three don't want a snow plow on the front of a certain model of truck, then they shouldn't offer a snow plow package. But they sure seem to be big on selling you one, now don't they? In my opinion, unless you are going with a 450 or larger truck, NO ONE should be putting a 10' plow on it. That being said, how many threads do you see in here where someone is complaining that their 10' plow is F'in up there truck? NONE. The threads you see in here are about a plow that is within what the factory says is acceptable, without voiding a warranty, or in my case, not even having a plow on the truck yet and haviing it go to hell. Lets face it. Quality has suffered largely for profits being made in other areas such as leather seats, wood dashes, and 200 inch wheelbases on a truck with a 4 foot bed, 20 inch aluminum wheels, and more electronic distractions than you can shake a stick at. My point with this whole post is that I think it will be a good thing when GM, Ford, and Dodge no longer have a lock on the heavy duty truck market. Competition is usually a good thing when it comes to consumers, and frankly, its way overdue.


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## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

I see you are running a 7.6ft plow on a 2500. Why didn't you go for the 10ft plow? You are already having problems with your front end. The bigger the plow the more stress on the truck. The more weight you tow. The more stress on all the parts. My last truck was a dually and I only used it for plowing. This truck is a srw but I bought the 3500 again for the sole purpose of plowing. Dodge has not sold me on anything. But what the plow manufacture's rating do. Fisher claims no larger than a 7.6 on a 2500 and yet will allow the 8ft and the 8.6 on the 3500 with the CTD. So maybe I can teach you a few things about under rating things. The front end of the 3500 has heavier springs than the 2500. If they list the true rating the truck would be over 9900 GVWR. Once a truck is rated above that they by insurance company standards have to be insured under a commercial policy. The Big have been doing it for years when it comes to HP and GVWR


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## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

I am running a 7'6" because thats the plow that I have had for 3 years, plus I like it for doing smaller condo driveways, thats why I bought wings to put on it so that I can have them for larger parking lots. Look on your door and check and see what your front axle gross weight is, then go look up what it is on a 2500...


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## Snowman19 (Sep 30, 2006)

BigDave12768 said:


> I see you are running a 7.6ft plow on a 2500. Why didn't you go for the 10ft plow? You are already having problems with your front end.


So why not go with the bigger plow, you can get more done!! your front end is going to wear anyways. why not make more money.


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## Emerscape (Mar 23, 2005)

I'm suprised you blew the ball joints on your dodge already. Now I know this is an apples and oranges kind of thing but when I had my 2003 Dodge 2500 with the 5.7 hemi I had a 8' boss plow on the front, pallet of salt in the back, girlfriend and dog (newfoundland) and sometimes 2 or 3 shovelers in the cab with me. I plowed commercially but also had to drive long distances wit hthe plow up to deliver salt and such. During the off months I towed equipment, skidsteers and mini excavators with the truck almost everyday monday thru friday. I had the extended warranty and took advantage of it every chance I got. I maintained the truck at the dealership as recommended. I replaced the front brakes at 65k miles along with , upper and lower ball joints, 6 u-joints, front and rear driveshafts, intermediate shafts, tie rods and a couple other small things I can't remember. I thought it was a miracle they lasted that long with the way I drove it. I beat the living hell out of that truck and the whole 60k mile service including above listed items and a tune up ran me $1500. I know the Cummings is a heavy engine and im not saying that your making it up, i just wonder why your truck failed already. Nonetheless good luck


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## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

SpruceLandscape said:


> I am running a 7'6" because thats the plow that I have had for 3 years, plus I like it for doing smaller condo driveways, thats why I bought wings to put on it so that I can have them for larger parking lots. Look on your door and check and see what your front axle gross weight is, then go look up what it is on a 2500...


Ok let me help you understand this. Dodge will list the front end the same on both. But they are not the same. They do this to keep the GVWR down on the 3500 srw. Once you put a tag of 10k or more on the door the truck has to be registered comercially and insured comercially. Do you understand now. its called under rating!!! They are not the same springs A guy I work with has a 2500. His front end drops down more than mine when he lifts his plow. And mine sits higher. Go look at the Dodges web site, The Dodge Power wagon with a 2 in lift sits at the same height as the 3500. You are a fool for thinking we have the same front end. If we had the same front end why do all the plow manufactures list bigger plows for the 3500 than 2500. BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND UNDER RATING!!!!!!


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## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

Emerscape said:


> I'm suprised you blew the ball joints on your dodge already. Now I know this is an apples and oranges kind of thing but when I had my 2003 Dodge 2500 with the 5.7 hemi I had a 8' boss plow on the front, pallet of salt in the back, girlfriend and dog (newfoundland) and sometimes 2 or 3 shovelers in the cab with me. I plowed commercially but also had to drive long distances wit hthe plow up to deliver salt and such. During the off months I towed equipment, skidsteers and mini excavators with the truck almost everyday monday thru friday. I had the extended warranty and took advantage of it every chance I got. I maintained the truck at the dealership as recommended. I replaced the front brakes at 65k miles along with , upper and lower ball joints, 6 u-joints, front and rear driveshafts, intermediate shafts, tie rods and a couple other small things I can't remember. I thought it was a miracle they lasted that long with the way I drove it. I beat the living hell out of that truck and the whole 60k mile service including above listed items and a tune up ran me $1500. I know the Cummings is a heavy engine and im not saying that your making it up, i just wonder why your truck failed already. Nonetheless good luck


He is not lying it is becoming a common problem with the CTD. The ball joints are sealed and seems like a bad bunch got out. Mine will be all done after this winter. Should be at 65k and I will also do brakes and the ujoints in the hubs


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## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

It would seem to me that if you are buying a 3500 truck most are doing so to use it comercially, right??? isn't that the premise of this whole thing? So why would they bother underratting it? It seems to me that if they underrated the capacities of the truck, then it got into an accident, that it would open up more liabilities that way. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, I'm just saying that unless you are the engineer at dodge that designed these front ends, then all we can do is speculate. For every one article or tech guy that you talk to who says they are different, I can find one that says they aren't. And it goes like that...


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## Emerscape (Mar 23, 2005)

good point.. 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks should be built a little stronger to deal with the commercial aspect. its almost like they should produce F450 srw trucks


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## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

You can speculate anything you want. List a Dodge 3500 beside a 2500 on Dodges website and look at ride height front and rear. They are not the same. As for 3500 being driven comercially. You are leaving out a ot people that have trailers. These are the people that benifit from a lower rating. It's not something they just started doing. Look at all the old muscle cars. None of those listed the correct HP. They would listed them lower to keep insurance rates lower. I am not sure how old you are. But their is a lot you do not know about how things in the work car industrie


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## jkitterman (Jan 28, 2004)

On the current Dodge 2500 & 3500 series, it is the same front axle and FGAWR. The 3500 is rated more because of the weight of the plow and ballast falls under the GVWR where on the 2500 it does not as easily. On my 2500 QC LB with the diesel, I only have about 1600 lbs of payload left. Add 800 lbs of ballast, a driver and the plow setup weight and I am right there. The SRW 3500 give you 900 lbs more GVWR to use. For a plow setup to be listed as a fit from the manufacturers, all the numbers have to be under the GVWR, FGAWR and RGAWR. The front spring may be different depending on plow prep package and or 2500 vs. 3500


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

If you wanna find out if the front ratings are really the same forget the techies, forget the door stickers, forget the website and the dealers.
Go to the service department (and check out the actual build sheets) Do the both have the SAME front axle? There are different models of Dana 60- are they both the SAME axle? are the part numbers (tags are on the springs of dealer fresh trucks) the same for the front springs?

Dodge had issues in the mid 90's with plows on 2500 diesels but no issues on the 3500 diesels. Reason- different front axle. The rear in my Ram is a Spicer 70, the rear in the same truck with a 5 spd instead of the auto was a DANA 80. Both 2500's.....Same GRWL, same GVWL.


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## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

justme- said:


> If you wanna find out if the front ratings are really the same forget the techies, forget the door stickers, forget the website and the dealers.
> Go to the service department (and check out the actual build sheets) Do the both have the SAME front axle? There are different models of Dana 60- are they both the SAME axle? are the part numbers (tags are on the springs of dealer fresh trucks) the same for the front springs?
> 
> Dodge had issues in the mid 90's with plows on 2500 diesels but no issues on the 3500 diesels. Reason- different front axle. The rear in my Ram is a Spicer 70, the rear in the same truck with a 5 spd instead of the auto was a DANA 80. Both 2500's.....Same GRWL, same GVWL.


Yes becuase they are LYING about the front end specs on the 3500. It's called under rating. Its all about registering and insurance. The srw 3500 would drop heavily if people had to put a commercial policy on it for the sole use of a daily driver. When I was looking for a pick up it didn't matter if it was a 2500 or 3500. But it had to be the Cumminins. But if the 3500 was going to be an issue with registration I would have passed. My old 3500 cost me 140 a year to register. My new truck only cost 20 per year to register. If my new one forced me to register commercail I would have hunted down a 2500.


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## Joe D (Oct 2, 2005)

justme- said:


> If you wanna find out if the front ratings are really the same forget the techies, forget the door stickers, forget the website and the dealers.
> Go to the service department (and check out the actual build sheets) Do the both have the SAME front axle? There are different models of Dana 60- are they both the SAME axle? are the part numbers (tags are on the springs of dealer fresh trucks) the same for the front springs?
> 
> Dodge had issues in the mid 90's with plows on 2500 diesels but no issues on the 3500 diesels. Reason- different front axle. The rear in my Ram is a Spicer 70, the rear in the same truck with a 5 spd instead of the auto was a DANA 80. Both 2500's.....Same GRWL, same GVWL.


Front axle on all the 94-02 rams with 8 lugs was a dana 60. The rear axle changed with trans option but thats it. Even the older 89-93 rams with the Cummins all used the same front axle.


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## SpruceLandscape (Sep 12, 2006)

LOL. I'm glad there is a lot of discussion on this thread, but lets not forget that the whole thing started not as a debate on Dodge trucks, but a complaint about all current domestic heavy duty trucks and their low standards of quality any more. =o) The only reason I posted it here is because I currently am in a Dodge. If there was anyway to post this in the other manufacturer threads, I would have.


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## dforbes (Jan 14, 2005)

sorry to here about your bad luck with trucks. I have a 94 dodge 3500 deisel and think it is the best truck I have ever owned 295000 miles, yes I just put in the second tranny and I have rebuilt the front end several times, but 90% of these miles is pulling a load. I have had 9800 lbs of rock on this truck yes it was way overloaded but I was only going a few miles. I liked it so much I bought an 02 2500 for my good truck. It hasn't been abused like the 94 but it has almost 100,000 with no problems. The only thing I don't like about dodge is they are no longer made in the US, but then again WHAT IS.


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