# 900k parking lot



## snokane

Please help me bid this job. I am new to commercial plowing.

I would really appreciate any information you can provide.


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## gc3

What do you have for equipment and how many people would you have helping you? What's your average snowfall for the year and how many events are there average?


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## snokane

I have 6 trucks. The average snowfall is approx. 48in per year. 51 snow events per year that are at least 1in. I am just looking for a starting point; IE, time to plow, average-below average price range as I am new and looking to get customers. I appreciate it GC.


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## snokane

I know my math doesn't exactly add up, but those are the numbers I found for Spokane County.


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## Longae29

20 acres isn't a good lot to get your feet wet on. When, not if, but when you fail there would be severe financial consequences brought on to you by the customer. Move on. Start small. Work your way up to this.


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## gc3

You don't have any skidsteers or loaders?


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## DERHNTR

That's a bunch of plowing. We get 60-80 inches in my area and only have about 10-12 plowing events on avg.


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## Luther

snokane;1833004 said:


> Please help me bid this job. I am new to commercial plowing.
> 
> I would really appreciate any information you can provide.


You'll need to have an understanding of their SOW/spec's before you can come up with numbers. What kind of place is this? Looks like a storage facility of some sort. They normally don't have high-end expectations.

I'm kind of with Mr. 29...this might not be the best place to begin your training.


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## Broncslefty7

i bet he can do it if he stacks salt on property with a diesel tank. he can probly rent a couple loaders for 3-4k per month. if he goes to the bank with a signed contract they will lend the money for pushers. just make sure you hire people that know how to operate. yeah its a huge account to wrap your head around but just print it out on a huge piece of paper and mark areas where people will be working and hope you dont have to clear all the doors.... it'll be super difficult but not impossible.


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## John_DeereGreen

What would YOU put on this lot to get it cleaned within a reasonable timeframe, IE 5-6 hours?

This is NOT a lot to get your feet wet on. You need a good bit of experience with 5-10 acre lots before you think about this...


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## Patrick3494

I'd say you need two loaders and a skid


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## Whiffyspark

One loader 2 skids 

Or two trucks and a loader


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## FISHERBOY

try 75,000, then see what they say, if they ask you to do better say you can do it for 70,000, if not maybe walk away the risk is not worth it


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## PLOWTRUCK

You need a minimum of 2 machines in that lot with pushers and a truck or two for cleanup. Is it just the parking area or all around the buildings to the right. If that's included than a skid or another truck helping out. With that your looking at 5-6 hours plowing time. Like others have said this is a large lot to start out with.


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## Antlerart06

I have 6 full time rigs I been doing this for long time I wouldn't even bid on that unless that's only lot I have to do

Looks bigger then 20acres


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## 1olddogtwo

And we wonder why we get such a bad rap.

Walk away, learn, grow, become a leader within you area and you'll be turning down jobs.


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## Camden

Longae29;1833031 said:


> 20 acres isn't a good lot to get your feet wet on. When, not if, but when you fail there would be severe financial consequences brought on to you by the customer. Move on. Start small. Work your way up to this.


Snokane - Listen to this^^^^, he's trying to save you a lot of trouble.


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## Broncslefty7

do your research, and you can do it. people are scared to take risks, it could either be a nightmare the entire time or you could do well and make some good cash.


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## Defcon 5

Whiffyspark;1833120 said:


> One loader 2 skids
> 
> Or two trucks and a loader





Patrick3494;1833115 said:


> I'd say you need two loaders and a skid


3 Loaders with 20 Foot Pushers.....6 skids and 9 Trucks and a walk crew of 50..........:laughing:


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## Defcon 5

Broncslefty7;1833273 said:


> do your research, and you can do it. people are scared to take risks, it could either be a nightmare the entire time or you could do well and make some good cash.


So........What doe's your "Research" tell you on this lot????.......

If you need to come on an internet fourum and ask for pricing help and equipment suggestions I don't think any "Research" at this point is gonna help you price and service this account to the standards set fourth at this time....This is just my opinion and im sure I will be told im a Loser by some of the "Experts" on here....


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## LapeerLandscape

It don't look that difficult, remember they only get an inch or so per event. The key would be to get the proper loader/skid operators, without them it would be mess. 
2 loaders and pushers
2 skids and pushers 
1 plow truck
Just remember whats difficult for you is difficult for the other guy also.


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## Maclawnco

If they only get an inch at a time, you don't need any equipment. Just salt the heck out of it. One salt truck and you're golden.


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## Antlerart06

Longae29;1833031 said:


> 20 acres isn't a good lot to get your feet wet on. When, not if, but when you fail there would be severe financial consequences brought on to you by the customer. Move on. Start small. Work your way up to this.


Well I found it on Findalotsize and the property is 20 acres So cut out the grass Islands and the buildings I say little over 15 acres of pavement


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## snokane

I am bidding on this tomorrow. He said it typically takes 1 truck 8 hours to do just the parking lot side which he likes done more frequently than the storage side.


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## JD Dave

LapeerLandscape;1833297 said:


> It don't look that difficult, remember they only get an inch or so per event. The key would be to get the proper loader/skid operators, without them it would be mess.
> 2 loaders and pushers
> 2 skids and pushers
> 1 plow truck
> Just remember whats difficult for you is difficult for the other guy also.


Are we looking at the same lot? It would be nice with that much machinery , start at 6 be done by 7.


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## gc3

Does he have a different trigger on the storage side than the parking lot?


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## snokane

Yes. Not sure what the triggers are. So I am writing up 4 bids. 1 for each site with and without salt. But I don't have a salt truck. I'm going into this blindly but it would be a confidence booster if I got the job.


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## snokane

Site I mean parking lot / storage area as a separate job due to diff triggers, correct?


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## SnowGuy73

Maclawnco;1833631 said:


> If they only get an inch at a time, you don't need any equipment. Just salt the heck out of it. One salt truck and you're golden.


This!......


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## John_DeereGreen

snokane;1834599 said:


> I am bidding on this tomorrow. He said it typically takes 1 truck 8 hours to do just the parking lot side which he likes done more frequently than the storage side.


If you're hell bent on bidding it then good luck...

I'd figure 1 2 yard loader, 14 foot pusher, 1 large frame skid with 10 foot pusher, and a truck with v plow. That should get you to a 4 hour service window on the whole property even in a 4-6 inch storm.

Without giving exact numbers, I'd be in the 40K range for clearing and 45K for salt. Seasonally.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Longae29;1833031 said:


> 20 acres isn't a good lot to get your feet wet on. When, not if, but when you fail there would be severe financial consequences brought on to you by the customer. Move on. Start small. Work your way up to this.


yeah, damn the repercussions when something goes wrong for you with a place that big could be 10x what you think you'll bill in a season. We had a company years back put a massive pile in front of the entrance to a lot for a health fitness gym and daycare.... We eventually cleared the lot, a day after the major storm was over, which at that time they knew they'd have to close down the extra day. Bill was $10k for that storm for their two sites "only one site had the issue". with lawyers dealing with collection, we settled for less than the attorney fees to collect the 10k 2yrs later, and they had all rights to countersue us for literally double our bill for lost revenue for one day.... be careful.

large sites like that need 24/7 managers, dedication, one big machine at least, a couple skid steers, trucks, storm plans, ice management plans etc..

We've plowed commercially since 2007 and signed our largest single site by far last year at over 1m sq ft... a train station complex with parking garage roof tops, lots of specifics.. and yes they nearly demand the zero tolerance and "i want to see pavement at all times" especially up near where people are commuting.

Its a major operation for the site, and if we didn't already have dozens of other sites contracted, we'd never have been able to handle a site like that.

You need to take large sites and break them down to bid.. by area, section, by every 100k sq ft per machine/truck or whatever.

Estimate out where you will salt more than others... vacant lots salted less, high traffic you may salt every hour on some demanding sites.

What happens when it snows too fast or heavy? Can the machines or trucks push all the snow as far as you anticipate, and if not, how much longer will it take to revise your plan and push in another direction?

For instance, some of our skid steers do 10+mph with a ten ft box.. simple math can calculate out rough sq footage they can cover in an hour.. assuming 20% for turning, stopping etc.. is 10mph x 5280ft per mile x10ft wide box is 520k sq an hour.. totally unrealistic.. An awesome driver... such as myself with experience in that machine and that box, on that lot, with little obstacles.. like during the night with zero cars in the lot, few curbs etc.. can do 100-150k an hour.

I timed myself once two years ago and in a 3-4" push "yeah nothing major", i cleared the majority with just tidy up work needed with a plow truck, a 270sq ft lot in just under 2 hrs time. I was flying, turning quickly, full blast everywhere with a 96hp 2011 John Deere.

The same lot took 9hrs "all night" with a more beginner operator on a similar track JD machine with the same HP, had experience driving the john deeres already, on the same box on the same lot with 8" of snow and it didn't look nearly as nice as when i was done.

You can easily over or underestimate that lot if you're not fully aware of all the specifics and can cost you a lot. if you only have 6 trucks "which isn't a small amount" , but you should have at least 3-4 on other accounts billed to other clients , which only leaves you 2-3 trucks there.. don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Visit the site during or after snow immediately this coming season, watch how that company plows it, notice the # and type of machines, boxes, salt supply etc and you'll learn more quickly than anything anyone on plowsite is going to tell you.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

John_DeereGreen;1834858 said:


> If you're hell bent on bidding it then good luck...
> 
> I'd figure 1 2 yard loader, 14 foot pusher, 1 large frame skid with 10 foot pusher, and a truck with v plow. That should get you to a 4 hour service window on the whole property even in a 4-6 inch storm.
> 
> Without giving exact numbers, I'd be in the 40K range for clearing and 45K for salt. Seasonally.


he said they get 48-50" of snow or something like that, 52events? thats $2k an event or $2k per salt or and plow combined!

I know all states vary, that site would be a $200k site in NJ easy.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

LapeerLandscape;1833297 said:


> It don't look that difficult, remember they only get an inch or so per event. The key would be to get the proper loader/skid operators, without them it would be mess.
> 2 loaders and pushers
> 2 skids and pushers
> 1 plow truck
> Just remember whats difficult for you is difficult for the other guy also.


I agree.. if no loaders, you'd need to double or "safer" tripple your skid/trucks.

2 2.5-4 yard loaders
2-3 skids "maybe one as backup and salt loading of the 2-3"?
1 plow truck with 2yd min spreader... would be a pita.. a 3-4+ in an F550 equivalent would be a ton easier.. and open areas all those operators need to know what the other guy is doing.. need someone to manage/coordinate.


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## Defcon 5

JD Dave;1834602 said:


> Are we looking at the same lot? It would be nice with that much machinery ,* start at 6 be done by 7*.


More time to drink Labatts......................


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## Ne1

I have to agree with what others said. This is definitely not a beginner lot. If you choose to bid it and maybe even receive the contract I wish you the best of luck.


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## Antlerart06

Ramairfreak98ss;1834898 said:


> yeah, damn the repercussions when something goes wrong for you with a place that big could be 10x what you think you'll bill in a season. We had a company years back put a massive pile in front of the entrance to a lot for a health fitness gym and daycare.... We eventually cleared the lot, a day after the major storm was over, which at that time they knew they'd have to close down the extra day. Bill was $10k for that storm for their two sites "only one site had the issue". with lawyers dealing with collection, we settled for less than the attorney fees to collect the 10k 2yrs later, and they had all rights to countersue us for literally double our bill for lost revenue for one day.... be careful.
> 
> large sites like that need 24/7 managers, dedication, one big machine at least, a couple skid steers, trucks, storm plans, ice management plans etc..
> 
> We've plowed commercially since 2007 and signed our largest single site by far last year at over 1m sq ft... a train station complex with parking garage roof tops, lots of specifics.. and yes they nearly demand the zero tolerance and "i want to see pavement at all times" especially up near where people are commuting.
> 
> Its a major operation for the site, and if we didn't already have dozens of other sites contracted, we'd never have been able to handle a site like that.
> 
> You need to take large sites and break them down to bid.. by area, section, by every 100k sq ft per machine/truck or whatever.
> 
> Estimate out where you will salt more than others... vacant lots salted less, high traffic you may salt every hour on some demanding sites.
> 
> What happens when it snows too fast or heavy? Can the machines or trucks push all the snow as far as you anticipate, and if not, how much longer will it take to revise your plan and push in another direction?
> 
> For instance, some of our skid steers do 10+mph with a ten ft box.. simple math can calculate out rough sq footage they can cover in an hour.. assuming 20% for turning, stopping etc.. is 10mph x 5280ft per mile x10ft wide box is 520k sq an hour.. totally unrealistic.. An awesome driver... such as myself with experience in that machine and that box, on that lot, with little obstacles.. like during the night with zero cars in the lot, few curbs etc.. can do 100-150k an hour.
> 
> I timed myself once two years ago and in a 3-4" push "yeah nothing major", i cleared the majority with just tidy up work needed with a plow truck, a 270sq ft lot in just under 2 hrs time. I was flying, turning quickly, full blast everywhere with a 96hp 2011 John Deere.
> 
> The same lot took 9hrs "all night" with a more beginner operator on a similar track JD machine with the same HP, had experience driving the john deeres already, on the same box on the same lot with 8" of snow and it didn't look nearly as nice as when i was done.
> 
> You can easily over or underestimate that lot if you're not fully aware of all the specifics and can cost you a lot. if you only have 6 trucks "which isn't a small amount" , but you should have at least 3-4 on other accounts billed to other clients , which only leaves you 2-3 trucks there.. don't put all your eggs in one basket.
> 
> Visit the site during or after snow immediately this coming season, watch how that company plows it, notice the # and type of machines, boxes, salt supply etc and you'll learn more quickly than anything anyone on plowsite is going to tell you.


Thanks I enjoyed reading this and never thought about breaking the lot down like that 
I copy paste this to my computer 
The saying is true you can teach a old dog new tricks and I learned something new today
Thanks


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## 1olddogtwo

Antlerart06;1835162 said:


> Thanks I enjoyed reading this and never thought about breaking the lot down like that
> I copy paste this to my computer
> The saying is true you can teach a old dog new tricks and I learned something new today
> Thanks


someone say olddog?

Did I read that right, it take two hours to plow 270sqft?


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## Masssnowfighter

No Guts No Glory as I like to say, but then on the other hand if you don't own any heavy equipment or even a salt truck you may be in way over your head. And if you don't have at least $50k lying around or a very high business line of credit to buy a few beat up old loaders with pushers a skid steer and a truck that can handle at least a 4yrd sander you should probably stay away from this one. 
I do a 20 acre distribution center that is zero tolerance and I run 3 loaders 1 backhoe and 2 skids just to keep the yard running at full capacity during storms


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## LapeerLandscape

1olddogtwo;1835172 said:


> someone say olddog?
> 
> Did I read that right, it take two hours to plow 270sqft?


I think it should read 270K (270,000) sqft from what the rest of it reads.


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## Ne1

LapeerLandscape;1835376 said:


> I think it should read 270K (270,000) sqft from what the rest of it reads.


Six acres in two hours with a skid loader is impressive....Thumbs Up


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## John_DeereGreen

Ramairfreak98ss;1834900 said:


> he said they get 48-50" of snow or something like that, 52events? thats $2k an event or $2k per salt or and plow combined!
> 
> I know all states vary, that site would be a $200k site in NJ easy.


Yeah, you guys have an insane cost of living as well...

I saw a 16 acre site last winter, outlet mall, went for 45K all inclusive. And they've got it again this year.


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