# Bid help please.



## ommegang (Oct 19, 2007)

Plowed as a sub for the past 4 years, condos and apts mostly. Got stiffed for my entire work - 180 hrs last year so, I am new to bidding. Help much appreciated. I have a 2011 F250 with 2011 bos 9'2 VXT. I don't have any external accounts at present except one diveway so, this bid would cost me $500 for the liability insurance. But it is only several miles away and on my route for my internal accounts, ie: properties I maintain, and it may provide a stepping stone for me. It's the two tan roofed buildings with the lot to the right which is 350' long. The second link is for the building directly accross the street owned by the same guy who previously plowed both himself. No sidewalks or salt. I figure 1.5 hrs for both which includes comming back the next day for clean-up. So, 1.5 x 100 = $150 x 8 = $1200. I figure 8-10 events above 3" based on this: http://www.currentresults.com/Weath...nowfall-totals-snow-accumulation-averages.php
My $100/hr charge is for any amount of snow at least for my seasonal bid. What do you guys think, not enough considering my insurance layout? I figure $50 gas allocated to this account, less $500 insurance leaves me with $650. Mind you, I would like to have 5-10 accounts to spread the insurance cost out on. But at present, I don't. Thanks, for any input.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...105,-88.073396&spn=0.001743,0.003406&t=h&z=18

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...064,-88.073659&spn=0.000871,0.001703&t=h&z=19


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

You got a lot of stuff going on in your post. Can you explain it more? Your still plowing for someone else? Your looking at 1 drive for 500?
Apt building too?
You do or don't have insurance now?
50 bucks to plow those 2 places? Am I missing something on those pix?


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## ommegang (Oct 19, 2007)

Not plowing for anyone now except a couple lots which I own/maintain. The two buildings in question are a 16 family and an 8 family. The 16 family is 350' long. I was proposing plowing both buildings for $150 per snow event including clean-up the next day. No extra liablity insurance at present.


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## Pa Teeny (Sep 15, 2006)

your low in my book......im in PA


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

whats the extra liability insurance for? Do you currently have gl? If so why do you need more? Is snow plowing not covered under your current policy?

Milwaukee averages about 48" of snow per year, that other site you posted didnt state that. So using that 48" of snow, you divide it by your 3" trigger point and you get 16 plowable events per year, based on that, your looking at 2400 for those two accounts. $2400 for those two accounts in this area would probably be a fair price for unlimited plowings. Normally we plow about 12 times a year so, if you were to put a cap on it at 48" per year id suggest $1800 which is for 12 plowings which is the average. 

I will say $100/hr is high for the milwaukee area, im a little south of you and no one is getting that. Most are at about $60-70/hr for a truck your size.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

bristolturf;1377207 said:


> I will say $100/hr is high for the milwaukee area, im a little south of you and no one is getting that. Most are at about $60-70/hr for a truck your size.


Not true at all. Subs get $60-$70/hr...actually for a 9'2 Vplow on a brand new truck, maybe even more since the guy has a couple years experience plowing.

Original Poster: Don't sell yourself short, make sure you are adequately covered for insurance, fuel, etc. with some money left over to pay yourself.


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## ommegang (Oct 19, 2007)

Thanks much guys. That's exactly what I don't want to do, is leave money on the table. . Please clarify, general liablity insurance covers plow accidents while plowing? My insurance guy says that I would need business plowing insurance completely separate from my reg auto insurance. 

Thanks again,

Lance


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

GL and plow insurance are different. If your plowing and hit something it goes through auto so it needs to be on your auto. GL is if someone falls and trys to sue you.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

im not saying to not get the insurance I was simply just asking. I would have figured that he would have had the needed insurance since he was plowing in previous years. 

Ive never seen people getting $100/hr around me at all at least for a 1 ton with a vblade. That probably at most is $75/hr by me and im 2 counties south. The rate of the truck shouldnt change becasue its a brand new truck vs a truck thats 5 years old really. Im not saying dont put in the bid for $100/hr, put it in and if you get it more power to you.


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## ommegang (Oct 19, 2007)

No, i'll bid it at $90 an hour. That seems to be the going quote rate. Even my great uncle in Hartford,WI, which is quite rural, gets $90/hy but only 2x the salt bag cost. I listed $100/hr b4 above because it was for any snow amount. But, I believe there have been 10-15 3" events during the past three years. I won't be salting this year so, perhaps I don't need GL? Would you agree? BTW, I was at $70/hr as a sub.... It looks like no snow through x-mass so perhaps I will bid it at 8-10 events.

Thanks again,

Lance


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

I would defenitally have GL just to be on the safe side especially at apartments. Even if you arent salting and someone slips and falls and you have in there your not liable, i still like to have the insurance just in case. Maybe dont get such a big policy or soemthing.

Are you bidding it unilimted snow or at a cap? If you doing unlimited I think you should still do probably about 13 events (milwaukee averages about 11 inches in December, so that 3 plowings so just subtract that,) and if your going to cap it Id do about 10.


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## TPC Services (Dec 15, 2005)

Not to bash anyone here but I need to move to Wisconsin $100 an hr. I would love to see that here!! you guys get a hell of a lot more snow then we do and our average per hr bid for places are way lower here. They are in the lines of $55-65 if your lucky $70 no matter what truck type or blade size! I thought the less amount snow states got more money because they dont have as many snow events then the states that get lots of snow (LOL)


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

TPC Services;1378155 said:


> Not to bash anyone here but I need to move to Wisconsin $100 an hr. I would love to see that here!! you guys get a hell of a lot more snow then we do and our average per hr bid for places are way lower here. They are in the lines of $55-65 if your lucky $70 no matter what truck type or blade size! I thought the less amount snow states got more money because they dont have as many snow events then the states that get lots of snow (LOL)


PM sent....rates vary......


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

TPC Services;1378155 said:


> Not to bash anyone here but I need to move to Wisconsin $100 an hr. I would love to see that here!! you guys get a hell of a lot more snow then we do and our average per hr bid for places are way lower here. They are in the lines of $55-65 if your lucky $70 no matter what truck type or blade size! I thought the less amount snow states got more money because they dont have as many snow events then the states that get lots of snow (LOL)


as the longae stated rates vary significantly. The op is in the milwaukee area which is about 40 minutes north of me (kenosha area) and theres no way people are getting $100/hr down here, up by him thats probably about the limit i would venture to say, most probably fall in the $90/hr range, but I could be wrong. but in my area Its in that 60-65/hr range. One local company (well established, big 25 year company) dropped their price to $55/hr for a 1 ton dump and $65/hr for an international dump at a school we bid on this year. Those should be $65/$75/hr respectively.


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## ommegang (Oct 19, 2007)

$90/hour is what I quote. I thought $100 because I was quoting at any snow level but, that's wrong. If I was getting $70/hr as a sub $90 is quite reasonable. Even my great uncle who is old and experienced said $90/hr is a farm area. Quite frankly, and I've done apts and condos for 4 years now, unless it's it's quite close to me or my other accounts, $90/hr is my lowest. Truck abuse, plow abuse, truck cost, plow cost, gas, danger driving, Insurance, lack of sleep, *****ing x3, cold, maintenance cost, how can you not justify $90/hr bid rate??? Unlees it lends itself to other businees opportunities $90 is quite justified. Transmission has to take a beating not to mention the 4wheel, the tires, the body, and I didn't even mention salt damage. The mileage, the drive components, etc. I can see city folk with a rust beater just looking for living money but seriously, you do realize that you're not making $90/hr clear right? There's a good post here somwhere on what your plow truck really cost you. Not to mention your truck will never go in straight line agian after plowing for season.


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## ommegang (Oct 19, 2007)

bristolturf;1378051 said:


> I would defenitally have GL just to be on the safe side especially at apartments. Even if you arent salting and someone slips and falls and you have in there your not liable, i still like to have the insurance just in case. Maybe dont get such a big policy or soemthing.
> 
> Are you bidding it unilimted snow or at a cap? If you doing unlimited I think you should still do probably about 13 events (milwaukee averages about 11 inches in December, so that 3 plowings so just subtract that,) and if your going to cap it Id do about 10.


Thanks for the input. Thta's what I am going to bid. 1.5 hrs for both each event, include next day cleanup at $90/hr x 10 events= $1350.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

im not trying to argue with you on the costs of operating. My boss knows what his costs of business are and I know where not making that much per hour clear. As stated all over this site, COSTS OF OPERATION VARY. You being a single operator your break even rate is going to be higher than that of a company that has multiple people working for it. We cant justify a $90/hr bid becasue no one around here is bidding that high and if we were to do so, wed be out of business. The people like you stated just looking for some extra $ make it hard for us to do so. We arent doing residential, but then the smaller companies or the people similar to you who has a smaller company (who dont know their operational costs) throw out some number of $50/hr or something like that and we cant do it.


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## ommegang (Oct 19, 2007)

Good point. I was commenting from only my perspective as a single operator. You would think with all the cost associated with employees and eq abuse, that single operators would have lower costs. Especially when you start considering health insurance. But, I guess not. It's hard to land a first account when you have to throw out $500-$600 for plowing insurance. There, I could see where larger companies win. That's why I was content as a sub for $70 an hr. But, I didn't get the plowing insurance thier either when I should have. But, I got stiffed last year.


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## bristolturf (Dec 20, 2008)

yes thats true. our company doesnt offer health insurance so theres no cost there. And when you have more workers you can divide your overall totals by a higer number of hours so your cost should be a little lower.dont get me wrong its not like your at 45 and were at like 15 its usually something like 30 and 25 or something of that nature. think of brickman, huge company has a lower operating cost, plus they usually work on lower pm's too


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