# Business advice?!?



## GanoMan (Dec 10, 2016)

I am new to this site so feel free to steer me into the right direction. I have 7 years of plow Experience and I'd like to give my own business a go. I am very successful for a 24yo and I know I can handle it. I just don't know how to actually start a business. I am I'm the Chicagoland area. I have a 2017 f250 with a western mvp3 on order and I have a business name and insurance. 

What I need help with is should I be a sole proprietor or an llc. I will occasionally let my father plow with me. I plan on getting another truck before next winter. 

Does anyone have any start up pointers?


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

LLC. A business name doesn't mean anything without it. 7 Years of experience? Who have you been plowing for since you were 17/18? And what kind of tips are you looking for?


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## GanoMan (Dec 10, 2016)

8 months out of the year i work for a baseball team and we did our own facility plowing up until they didn't wanna pay us year round. so since 2015 i have been working for a contractor using a skid steer for lots and a truck for private roads. i only have about 20 residential pushes under my belt.

i guess for starters what is better a seasonal contract or getting paid by the push(i feel like i could get burned if i go by the push, however i feel like i could make more money)? What is the best way to market business?


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

When it comes to seasonal vs. per push, neither one is "better" to me. To me, they both have their benefits and merits. I take enough seasonal accounts to cover my nut (truck payments, insurance, maintenance, repairs etc), so that even if we don't get snow, my bills are covered. To me, the per push accounts are where I get ahead and profit. You don't have to do strictly one or the other. You take some of each, and cover your ass. 

Do you know how to bid a job and write a contract yet? If not, subcontract for somebody for a few years until you learn how to do the above. This also helps if your truck goes down while you only have one truck to work with. This way, if your truck or plow go down, your customer doesn't get screwed. If you had your own contracts and your truck or plow went down for a couple of weeks while it snowed, your customers would be pissed, and probably cancel their contract with you, and never use you again. If you're in business for yourself and hold your own contracts, you've got to have a way to take care of your customers even if you have equipment problems.

Where exactly do you live? If actually in Chicago or the suburbs, I would personally stay away from residential, and do commercial accounts. That's just my opinion, and I'm sure many people would disagree with me. I did residential contracts for 15+ years in WI, and it left a bad taste in my mouth. You have to take on many more accounts with residential to make the same amount you do with commercial accounts to make the same amount of money. And the more accounts you have, the more complaints you have as well. 

Do you have a way to take care of salting as well? You will severely limit your potential clients for commercial accounts if you don't have the ability to salt them, and your profit will be substantially less as well. Salting is where the money is at. 

And your question about marketing.....There really isn't a good way to market snow removal. It's all about knocking on doors, whether it's residential customers or commercial ones. That's just my opinion again though, and I'm sure people will disagree with me.


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## GanoMan (Dec 10, 2016)

wow lots of good stuff to process there. i live in the Mount prospect/des plaines area. i have been around the bidding aspect but never actually done it myself. i was going to have an attorney write something up for me as far as an actual contract. i wanna make it so i can use it for both residential and commercial as well as seasonal and by the push. i do not have a backup truck yet. however i think i will plan out some options to start off my business im just trying to wet my lips. i dont expect to have more than 10-15 accounts. i already have a lot of people in m neighborhood interested. (mostly elderly that i am already shoveling for)
Where would i be able to buy bulk salt if do end up buying a salter?


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## GanoMan (Dec 10, 2016)

i think i will try and get at least 1 commercial lot so i can get used to running my own show. im just afraid of biting off more than i can chew.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Around here just pay to have your name come up on google in the first couple listings and your phone will ring


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## GanoMan (Dec 10, 2016)

iceyman said:


> Around here just pay to have your name come up on google in the first couple listings and your phone will ring


Good thinking. Know how much that might cost?


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

GanoMan said:


> Good thinking. Know how much that might cost?


Youre young.. google it


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## GanoMan (Dec 10, 2016)

Can someone explain the LLC vs sole proprietor? That crap confuses me. I wanna be legit I just don't know what I need. For now it'll be just myself operating my plow.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

LLc.. should be easy to do online. You might want to talk with a lawyer to get the rundown of what insurance etc you will need


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## GanoMan (Dec 10, 2016)

Ok so definitely an llc. Gotcha


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

LLC or an S or C Corp

I would recommend that you speak that a tax professional before choosing which one you do.

Your profit/loss will be passed on to you so your future tax structure makes all the difference when you start.

In my case, my tax man had me do S Corps for the company's that "make money" and LLC's for the companies that just "pass threw" any profit


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

GanoMan said:


> Can someone explain the LLC vs sole proprietor? That crap confuses me. I wanna be legit I just don't know what I need. For now it'll be just myself operating my plow.


There are a ton of reasons, but to keep this simple and not a boring essay...

The biggest reason for LLC and Corps give you a "corporate veil" from insurance/ law suit stand point.

More or less, from an insurance standpoint, you are a "shareholder" in a corp and a "member" in a LLC. In a sole proprietorship, you are "Joe" DBA "Joes Snow Plowing". I often refer to this as "the separation between church and state"

If someone sues your corp or LLC, they will have to exaust the insurance/ assets that the corp or LLC holds before they can start into your personal insurance/assets. The objective is to hold enough insurance that if something major happens, your company insurance can ward them off.

There are also tax reasons, but talk to your tax guy about those as every person/ company is different.

Clear as mud?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

GanoMan said:


> I am new to this site so feel free to steer me into the right direction. I have 7 years of plow Experience and I'd like to give my own business a go. I am very successful for a 24yo and I know I can handle it. I just don't know how to actually start a business. I am I'm the Chicagoland area. I have a 2017 f250 with a western mvp3 on order and I have a business name and insurance.
> 
> What I need help with is should I be a sole proprietor or an llc. I will occasionally let my father plow with me. I plan on getting another truck before next winter.
> 
> Does anyone have any start up pointers?


Best advice I could give you get a job, Just kidding, Good advice above, Good Luck


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## GanoMan (Dec 10, 2016)

FredG said:


> Best advice I could give you get a job, Just kidding, Good advice above, Good Luck


Haha. I do have a job!!! A really good one that pays well!!!! I am just a go getter and I want to always be bettering my situation


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## GanoMan (Dec 10, 2016)

Philbilly2 said:


> There are a ton of reasons, but to keep this simple and not a boring essay...
> 
> The biggest reason for LLC and Corps give you a "corporate veil" from insurance/ law suit stand point.
> 
> ...


Yeah I just have to talk to my tax guy. Thank you! I hope all the insurance doesn't bury me. Also is it smart to wait closer to next season or get started with the business aspect of it sooner.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Start setting it up now. It takes some time. Get a website going, advertise, get quotes on insurance etc. if you’re all set up this spring, thats a lot less stuff to worry about come fall.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

You're in Illinois, best bet is find a good accountant and lawyer. They can help you navigate what the best approach for you is.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

GanoMan said:


> i was going to have an attorney write something up for me as far as an actual contract. i wanna make it so i can use it for both residential and commercial as well as seasonal and by the push.


Don't bother, search the site for contracts, I have mine posted here and so do others, get them all and pick and choose what works best for you, then give it to a lawyer to make sure it complies with your state law.


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## GanoMan (Dec 10, 2016)

MSsnowplowing said:


> Don't bother, search the site for contracts, I have mine posted here and so do others, get them all and pick and choose what works best for you, then give it to a lawyer to make sure it complies with your state law.


Ok. Is there a certain type of lawyer I should be looking for?


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

GanoMan said:


> Ok. Is there a certain type of lawyer I should be looking for?


Any lawyer that does state law contracts.


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## JBMohler (Dec 17, 2013)

Are you going into biz for yourself all year long or just to plow snow? If its just to plow snow then get ins. and nail a sign to a tree. Its not that complicated. Get magnets for your truck.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JBMohler said:


> Are you going into biz for yourself all year long or just to plow snow? If its just to plow snow then get ins. and nail a sign to a tree. Its not that complicated. Get magnets for your truck.


So what happens when you back over a kid walking to the bus stop?

The way you are advising him he will have absolutely no corporate veil and he could very easily loose his house and everything he owns in a matter of minutes...


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## JBMohler (Dec 17, 2013)

Philbilly2 said:


> So what happens when you back over a kid walking to the bus stop?
> 
> The way you are advising him he will have absolutely no corporate veil and he could very easily loose his house and everything he owns in a matter of minutes...


I'm a Corp but I certainly wouldn't form one to plow driveways. Wait till he gets the bill from the accountant to file those 1120's.

Good lawyers shred the corporate protections for small companies with ease. Esp if you co-mingle


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JBMohler said:


> Esp if you co-mingle


That's the trick. Never co mingle. Have documentation for everything, get a different bank account, pay yourself a salary, etc. Things like that make a huge difference.

If you cant make your cash flow work (or want to work through the growing pains), don't start a business. I wouldn't want to take a huge risk, and not be covered on my end. If the money isn't there after the bills are paid, it's better to stay inside where it's warm.


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