# 19 F450 transmission pto



## Dave R (Dec 20, 2018)

New to the site so not sure how this works but...
Anyone have any 19 Ford f-450’s using the transmission pto to run your salt spreaders? Just got 3 of these, running 4yd v-box spreaders and nothing but issues so far. We have a lot of trucks with under hood system that have always worked great. These are nothing like under hood clutch pump systems. Would like to hear your thoughts on the system, how it works for you, type of set up your running. Anything you’ve found to make it work for commercial snow and ice management.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

What problems are you having?


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## Dave R (Dec 20, 2018)

No low rpm operation with spreader loaded, pto doesn’t really kick on until 1200 rpm. We have to run these trucks in 1st 6-8mph at 1500+ rpms to keep the salt spreading. Spinner and conveyor fight each other for fluid, bump the spinner up about 3-4 clicks and lose conveyor. The truck builder has changed hose sizes, swapped 1 truck from a buyers valve/tank setup to a Muncie mesp 300 and larger tank. We have tested and adjusted everything they can think of and no closer to results we’re looking for. They now want to swap over to a different pto and a vein pump.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What problems are you having?


I bet when it's in drive they no workie no mo


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

dieselss said:


> I bet when it's in drive they no workie no mo


Why?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Your PTO needs to be a higher ratio speed.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Why?


Some of the top kicks we have are autos with PTOs. 
You engage them in D and then place them in N to operate the PTO. When you go back in D the PTO stops working as the gear in the trans stops spinning.
These were all alison autos, and the 4 we had all operated the same way.
If trans mounted PTOs have changed, idk as we only had older trucks. All the belt driven ones worked all the time they were engaged


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

The PTO works in P, D, R, on the Ford. 

Sounds like gearing is the problem.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

1olddogtwo said:


> The PTO works in P, D, R, on the Ford.


Thumbs Up


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Looks like Pat’s got it covered. In 2011 they started live PTO in the Super Duty line.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Looks like Pat's got it covered. In 2011 they started live PTO in the Super Duty line.


Ya, that's wayyyyyyyyy after I got out.
Thx for the new model updates


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Dave R said:


> We have to run these trucks in 1st 6-8mph at 1500+ rpms to keep the salt spreading.


FWIW, we run all our central hydraulic driven spreaders and even our direct drive hydraulic spreaders in first gear to keep the RPM's up.



Dave R said:


> Spinner and conveyor fight each other for fluid, bump the spinner up about 3-4 clicks and lose conveyor.


You sure they put large enough volume pumps on?



Dave R said:


> They now want to swap over to a different pto and a vein pump.


Sounds like they're finally on the right track. Doesn't matter how big the hoses or reservoir is if the oil isn't getting to the spreader.

Where are you located?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

1olddogtwo said:


> The PTO works in P, D, R, on the Ford.
> 
> Sounds like gearing is the problem.


Agreed and Ford's by far are the noisest PTO's... Sounds like a tin can of marbles...



Mark Oomkes said:


> FWIW, we run all our central hydraulic driven spreaders and even our direct drive hydraulic spreaders in first gear to keep the RPM's up.


Sounds like you need electric....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Sounds like a tin can of marbles...


So they're using the 6.0 to drive the PTO?

That POS never sounded like a diesel, other than maybe a diesel that someone had dropped a bag of marbles down the oil fill...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Sounds like you need electric....


Actually, if they actually worked, that would be one of the positives of electrics.


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## Dave R (Dec 20, 2018)

Gas v-10 engine. 4x4 only 2 pump sizes available and they put the larger one on it. They say these engines don’t have enough hp at idle to run clutch pump so that’s why it’s the pto system. But it’s all ran through the trucks computer with every safety feature to protect transmission. Guess we’ll see what happens after they swap to this vein pump. I’ll keep ya posted. Meanwhile if your in the market for new trucks and running central hydraulics do your research.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

That's a bummer. 

Who is they?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Dave R said:


> Gas v-10 engine. 4x4 only 2 pump sizes available and they put the larger one on it. They say these engines don't have enough hp at idle to run clutch pump so that's why it's the pto system. But it's all ran through the trucks computer with every safety feature to protect transmission. Guess we'll see what happens after they swap to this vein pump. I'll keep ya posted. Meanwhile if your in the market for new trucks and running central hydraulics do your research.


They're using a different trans from the diesel...?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> They're using a different trans from the diesel...?


Wood seam sooo


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BUFF said:


> Wood seam sooo
> View attachment 187798


Not sure why they only offer two PTO's... Monroe showed several different size pumps I could uprgrade for my dump but it is diesel...

Wonder what the difference is...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

There should be specs on the transmission PTO drive speed. Then you have the PTO ratio, then the pump flow specs per RPM.


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## Dave R (Dec 20, 2018)

Front drive shaft clearance issues on 4x4 is the reason for only 2 pump options . 2x4 model has many more options.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Dave R said:


> Front drive shaft clearance issues on 4x4 is the reason for only 2 pump options . 2x4 model has many more options.


My 16 550 is 4 wheel drive unless they changed trannys and engines...


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## scottr (Oct 10, 2013)

OP, you might ask them to check and verify the GPM and PSI coming out of the pump at the speed /RPM your wanting to run at. This will tell you everything you need to know. Compare it with the rated demands of the spreader and conveyer. You might quickly find you just not pushing enough fluid to run both. Also, what kind of flow devider is being used? I suspect it OEM from the spreader? Food for thought.


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## sthoms3355 (Jan 3, 2008)

We have '15 F-550 with 6.7 and works great. Hope they figure out your issues.


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## icudoucme (Dec 3, 2008)

I worked for a company that had f650 with PTO powered Salters. (2 roll offs) 1 dedicated body. We had nothing but issues with the hydraulic salters. After 2 years we sold them and replaced with Smith electric units. The only units that are worth using hydraulic are large cdl trucks.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

icudoucme said:


> I worked for a company that had f650 with PTO powered Salters. (2 roll offs) 1 dedicated body. We had nothing but issues with the hydraulic salters. After 2 years we sold them and replaced with Smith electric units. The only units that are worth using hydraulic are large cdl trucks.


The upfitter had something mismatched.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

icudoucme said:


> I worked for a company that had f650 with PTO powered Salters. (2 roll offs) 1 dedicated body. We had nothing but issues with the hydraulic salters. After 2 years we sold them and replaced with Smith electric units. The only units that are worth using hydraulic are large cdl trucks.


Which transmission?

It's likely the transmission on an F650 is the same as the tranny on an F750. My F750 had the the Allison MD 3000 series, that thing was awesome.

Hot shift or PTO hydraulic systems really are the best for what most of us do. Very reliable, lots of power and they don't rob HP like a direct mount pump does. No clutch to slip, no belts to stretch\break and replace.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

My 650 the same transmission as my 550.

The 650 is a roll back and is lighting quick. While not a salter, it will move and tilt the deck with easy with a 15K load on it at the same time as well as work the winch.

The rpms do raise to 1200 tho.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> My 650 the same transmission as my 550.


Interesting...which tranny are they using?

Must be they stopped using Allisons when they stopped using Cats and Cummings?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Randall Ave said:


> Your PTO needs to be a higher ratio speed.


This sounds like sled pulling math 101...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> This sounds like sled pulling math 101...


Let's not get into that whole math thing...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Let's not get into that whole math thing...


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Interesting...which tranny are they using?
> 
> Must be they stopped using Allisons when they stopped using Cats and Cummings?


Yep, since Ford and International finally divorced in 2014, they only offer the V10 and 6.7 Powerstroke in them with the 6 speed auto, no more manuals to my knowledge.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

wizardsr said:


> Yep, since Ford and International finally divorced in 2014, they only offer the V10 and 6.7 Powerstroke in them with the 6 speed auto, no more manuals to my knowledge.


Manuals trans ended in 2010.


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## icudoucme (Dec 3, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Which transmission?
> 
> It's likely the transmission on an F650 is the same as the tranny on an F750. My F750 had the the Allison MD 3000 series, that thing was awesome.
> 
> Hot shift or PTO hydraulic systems really are the best for what most of us do. Very reliable, lots of power and they don't rob HP like a direct mount pump does. No clutch to slip, no belts to stretch\break and replace.


I have no idea what make the transmission was. I know it was an automatic. The engine was a blue tech.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

icudoucme said:


> I have no idea what make the transmission was. I know it was an automatic. The engine was a blue tech.


What is a "blue tech"? Never heard that phrase.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Randall Ave said:


> What is a "blue tech"? Never heard that phrase.


I don't think they drove too many diesels on e "Jersey Shore".....

Sorry, I couldn't resist.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Randall Ave said:


> What is a "blue tech"? Never heard that phrase.


Ditto...


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

1olddogtwo said:


> I don't think they drove too many diesels on e "Jersey Shore".....
> 
> Sorry, I couldn't resist.
> 
> View attachment 188066


That got woke up, looked in the mirror and asked "how he could be a ****** bag"


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Ditto...


You're driving one.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Dodge/Ram at one time marketed the 6.7 Cummins as a Bluetec engine. I believe it was a term coined by Mercedes/Chrysler.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Dodge/Ram at one time marketed the 6.7 Cummins as a Bluetec engine. I believe it was a term coined by Mercedes/Chrysler.


I thought Ford owned Cummings?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I thought Ford owned Cummings?


They do...they just have a superior engine with the 6.7 Power Stroke...

:laugh::laugh:


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

John_DeereGreen said:


> They do...they just have a superior engine with the 6.7 Power Stroke...
> 
> :laugh::laugh:


That's a fact jack!!!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> They do...they just have a superior engine with the 6.7 Power Stroke...
> 
> :laugh::laugh:





1olddogtwo said:


> That's a fact jack!!!


MJ became legal in Illernoiz and oHIo???


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> MJ became legal in Illernoiz and oHIo???


The Kummings might be marginally better as of current production. The down side is it's still stuffed in a junk shipping container for a truck.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

BlueTEC is Mercedes-Benz new term for diesel, so whenever you pull up behind one and on the right side it say BlueTEC, that means it's diesel


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> The Kummings might be marginally better as of current production.


Marginally?

It's the same basic platform as they started with in '89. Wait...that was before you were born.

The B Series has a multitude of applications from boats to gensets to medium duty trucks to loaders and who knows what else.

They've cleaned it up, added valves, but it's still the same basic inline 6 cylinder engine that it was in '89. How many diesels has Furd gone through in that time? GM has a better record than that.

But I s'pose...after 6 tries, they were bound to get something right.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Triple L said:


> BlueTEC is Mercedes-Benz new term for diesel, so whenever you pull up behind one and on the right side it say BlueTEC, that means it's diesel
> 
> View attachment 188088


A sister in law has a sedan with the Blue Tech motor, great power and mileage.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

BUFF said:


> A sister in law has a sedan with the Blue Tech motor, great power and mileage.


I agree, I love driving the wife's car


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Triple L said:


> I agree, I love driving the wife's car


You got married???


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You got married???


Well.... Engaged


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Triple L said:


> Well.... Engaged


Congrats Chad...maybe condolences...


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Triple L said:


> Well.... Engaged


You got engaged to Buff's sister in-law? Small world.

NYH1.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

NYH1 said:


> You got engaged to Buff's sister in-law? Small world.
> 
> NYH1.


I wouldn't wish that on anyone including a foreigner....... She's nice enough if she wants to be, good looking and very fit for being 66yo, high maintainence with expensive taste. IMO my bro choose poorly and he has no balls for putting up with her.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Marginally?
> 
> It's the same basic platform as they started with in '89. Wait...that was before you were born.
> 
> ...


So your saying that a new Cummings is just the same old turd that it has always been???


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> So your saying that a new Cummings is just the same old turd that it has always been???


Sure...


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## icudoucme (Dec 3, 2008)

Blue Tech was the name of the engine. I don't know if it was a third party or not. All I remember is the dealership and a fleet mechanic could not find parts for them.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Blue tech What was the name for the diesel emissions system.

My ram with a 6.7l cummins has a
Blue tech badge on the lower left side of the tailgate .


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