# Are you worried yet?



## diesellandscape (Jul 17, 2009)

I'm just wondering how many of you guys are worried about what this winter will bring. I know here in pittsburgh we've only been out salting 2 times this year. I think at this time last year we had salted 7or8 times and pushed 3 or 4. Ive talked to a few friends and they arent happy about the lack of snow. I know if i was all per-push I would be crying right about now, But thank god we have seasonal contracts.


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## MikeLawnSnowLLC (Dec 6, 2005)

Thats why you can't have all per push snow accounts its good to have a mix. We've only salted 3 times and to me this is a nice little vacation without having to work to much!


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

Not at all, I'd be more worried if we had pushed 20 times already. 

I have too many seasonal accounts.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Same here, we've been out plowing twice and salting a handful of times. We're so used to not plowing the storm we're supposed to get tonight seems more like a burden.


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## beam (Jan 24, 2009)

enjoying this weather that pgh has we have seasonal contracts and enjoying the time off it will come when we dont want it and it wont stop lol


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## BOSSMAN21 (Dec 11, 2008)

diesellandscape;1393051 said:


> I'm just wondering how many of you guys are worried about what this winter will bring. I know here in pittsburgh we've only been out salting 2 times this year. I think at this time last year we had salted 7or8 times and pushed 3 or 4. Ive talked to a few friends and they arent happy about the lack of snow. I know if i was all per-push I would be crying right about now, But thank god we have seasonal contracts.


Worried? No. Nervous? Very. I know here on the coast, especially last year, we had already plowed 5-7 times, and we have plowed twice here now. Most of my accounts are per push and one seasonal, thank god I have already got paid for the seasonal contract, otherwise, id be a lot more concerned.


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

NOPE, not worried, not nervous, but I am ready to go out and plow. I think this season will make or break the small guys that just do this for a living in my area. In West MI, we have had only 1 plow-able event so far, usually we have been out countless times and the snow is with us from the end of November to the middle of March. Fortunately, I don't have to worry, because all of my equipment is paid for and so is all of my subs equipment and we all have day jobs if its not snowing. We all choose to live *DEBT FREE*(other than our mortage) so we dont have to worry if it snows or not (we dont depend on it, because it is not really predictable). If it doesn't snow, it just means less vacations next summer. I have a feeling we will be plowing well into March, maybe April 2012 though.


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## exmark1 (Nov 30, 2005)

We plowed one time in November, only salted a few lots a couple of time this year so far. We have $2000.00 a month in Seasonal work which makes it doable if we don't get snow but with the majority per push work snow falling would make me alot happier!


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## ken643 (Mar 27, 2009)

If we loose January, no new toys this summer.  January and February are our "normal" good months here in NJ


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Plowtoy;1393413 said:


> we all have day jobs if its not snowing..


I wouldn't worry if it didn't snow, if this wasn't my primary business either.


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

A little concerned, very BORED.


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## ken643 (Mar 27, 2009)

Weather guesser Goldberg on channel 7 said no decent cold air for at least 2-3 weeks. Which will shoot January.  I do love the extra snow money, I am disapointed to say the least.


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

Its not just you guys!!!! haha In Michigan we are salting as we speak! We have had 3-4 salt events compared to Last years 3-4 Plows and 6 saltings by now. 

We're anxious for snow, but cant really complain. It soooooo much easier on less stressful on the trucks nd equipment to press a button (on the liquid sprayer) or salt spreader. Than run a truck into 150 "brick walls" (Whether its plowing driveways or parking lots.)


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

ken643;1393452 said:


> Weather guesser Goldberg on channel 7 said no decent cold air for at least 2-3 weeks. Which will shoot January.  I do love the extra snow money, I am disapointed to say the least.


See I have heard different. John Dee said in his last update that the current low lodged near greenland is starting to dislodge and that will mean colder air for us and may bring more snows. But no big snowmakers insight now. But who knows for sure, changes day to day.


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Plow man Foster;1393459 said:


> Its not just you guys!!!! haha In Michigan we are salting as we speak! We have had 3-4 salt events compared to Last years 3-4 Plows and 6 saltings by now.
> 
> We're anxious for snow, but cant really complain. It soooooo much easier on less stressful on the trucks nd equipment to press a button (on the liquid sprayer) or salt spreader. Than run a truck into 150 "brick walls" (Whether its plowing driveways or parking lots.)


Lucky you....we have only had 2 salt events.LOL I love to salt, those all day freezing rain events are great for business. We haven't had one of those in a couple years, I'll take it. Customers seem to apreciate you more for those type of events rather than the little snows where everyone can still get around ok.


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

I'm more worried that if it does snow, I won't be able to do any work. I messed up my back a few weeks ago and it's not getting any better. I might have to have surgery. On top of all that. the doctor wants me to take a stress test. He thinks I have blockage in my arteries!


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## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

It all runs in cycles.


I've had 25" across 5 events so far this winter. Some winters we don't get more than 4" ALL winter across 2 events.
My plow is paid for, but I still like the benjamins.
No benjamins in the forecast for the next 10 days.


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## ken643 (Mar 27, 2009)

@DLCS I hope your weather guy is right, that at least gives some hope. Fingers crossed fellas!


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## PenfieldProp (Dec 15, 2011)

Plowing is not my primary income I do excavating and trucking so usually its something to do in the off months but SURE I would love to see a few small events it makes me feel less guilty about spending for new fishing gear when the ground is frozen and we can't dig. But the lack of frost has kept the work being able to go as normal so really no complaints here. I will say I also own my house trucks plow jetski and boat if I can't afford it I don't buy it wish is why I have been able to maintain and live comfortable in the dirt buisness u must save because those mortgages and credit cards don't seem to care when u lose a bid


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## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

Glad I don't count on it is all I can say. Feel bad for the guys that are counting on it. Plowing for us is a bonus secondary income in the winter but only accounts for 5-10% of revenues.
I'm mainly pissed I can't snowmobile. Two new sleds in the shop and no snow in sight


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

Haven't even dropped a blade yet this year. Have sold everything but the wife. Watch how seasonal prices tank next year.


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## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

northernsweeper;1393531 said:


> . Watch how seasonal prices tank next year.


Because our seasons fluctuate so much its very rare to find a seasonal customer in this area.
With seasonal pricing some one is guaranteed to get screwed.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

BPS#1;1393476 said:


> It all runs in cycles.
> 
> I've had 25" across 5 events so far this winter. Some winters we don't get more than 4" ALL winter across 2 events.
> My plow is paid for, but I still like the benjamins.
> No benjamins in the forecast for the next 10 days.


So much for the ole saying about Wyoming, 1" of snow that just blows around all year.


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## jrodgers (Feb 14, 2001)

Im still fishing... water temp 50 and Stripers still biting. Snows a bonus for me.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

northernsweeper;1393531 said:


> Watch how seasonal prices tank next year.


My only real concern right now...I plan to plow all winter so really just kindof bored, but I guess I get alot of sleep with this weather.


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

BPS#1;1393564 said:


> Because our seasons fluctuate so much its very rare to find a seasonal customer in this area.
> With seasonal pricing some one is guaranteed to get screwed.


Yep, seasonal prices next season will be tanked. Guaranteed. Another excuse to cut costs.


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## BMB Plowing (Nov 20, 2010)

I'm not concerned, worried or bored....but I do really want to get out and plow. I have a day job so I'm still busy. I also work for a plow company that has city accounts and get paid per route, and is just extra money. 
I'm a little concerned actually what the lack of snow will do for the water table, probably won't be good for the lawns in the spring.


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## LON (Aug 20, 2006)

Where you at in WY? My wife and 2 daughters headed to Torrington this morning to take my oldest back to Eastern WY CC.


BPS#1;1393476 said:


> It all runs in cycles.
> 
> I've had 25" across 5 events so far this winter. Some winters we don't get more than 4" ALL winter across 2 events.
> My plow is paid for, but I still like the benjamins.
> No benjamins in the forecast for the next 10 days.


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## LON (Aug 20, 2006)

I want to see snow as I want to move more product! No one wants plows, spreaders, tire chains, etc when there's no snow


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

They sure whiffed on all of those above average predictions. I dont care how much it snows we wont reach their predictions. You cant have a snow drought for 2 months and then catch up. At least I dont see it happening. Even long range forecasts look mild and dry.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

We've had 2 saltings, so most of our guys haven't even been out yet, its been a month and a half since plowers have gone over their routes, planning on doing a refresher course soon. We have enough seasonals to cover expenses, but we are a 60-70% snow company and need it it to snow, at least a little. 

NAO, MOVE!


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## Red_Rattler (Feb 28, 2001)

Bored outa my mind and grounds not froze and no good ice to fish and and and and


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

No plowing here yet. Good thing I bought my Ebling .....and my new Skidoo Summit 800 snow machine. Plow is in the shop and the sled is all clean and dry in the garage. Good thing is that i still have digging jobs because the weather has been decent. I have 2 more big residential site work jobs to start in the next couple weeks too......that's when we will get hammered with snow!


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## mansf123 (Nov 10, 2009)

Getting really bored.....and somewhat worried.


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## grf_1000 (Sep 14, 2009)

we've salted 12 times and 2 full pushes, tomorrow will be the third. last season at this time we had 16 pushes. we are down over 48" from avg.thank god for multi year seasonal contracts. you know when mother nature flips her switch it will come. its just a matter of time.


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## APLC (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm just a bit board more then anything, I also run a debt free Business so all of my trucks and equipment are paid for. We also try to keep 80/20 (80% per push contracts and 20% seasonal) so we can pay any bills and still be good BUT when it does snow in MICHIGAN its going to freaking dump on us. payup


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## Lugnut (Feb 25, 2006)

I've got enough seasonal to pay the bills and milder winters mean we can find other work to do but i wanna get out there and plow some snow...plus my guys need the hours


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

Maybe I can score some late season leaf cleanups


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## agurdo17 (Sep 15, 2011)

snow drought will not drive seasonal prices down. It separates the men from the boys, The beer money brigade will be weeded out. Lots of really nice, new used equipment for sale here soon. Sorry in advance if i offend anyone. Our contracts are 95 percent seasonal. It all evens out........:salute:


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## agurdo17 (Sep 15, 2011)

JTVLandscaping;1394383 said:


> Maybe I can score some late season leaf cleanups


i notice we are still getting up at three snow or not lol!


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## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

LON;1393915 said:


> Where you at in WY? My wife and 2 daughters headed to Torrington this morning to take my oldest back to Eastern WY CC.


Cheyenne.

Why a Torrington CC from PA?
Seems like a long way from home.

I got my GED many years ago from Eastern WY CC.


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## trqjnky (Nov 12, 2009)

not worried here. disappointing? yes. i own an auto repair shop, so nice weather means my shop is much busier than normal this time of year. its weird how people wont maintain their vehicles when its cold out. but i like plowing snow, its good bonus money for me. and i purchased a skid loader this year for snow. and its not paying for itself so far.


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

I have seen snowless winters, its not a pretty picture for people make their living in the green industry! I think hahn solo would be saying (I've got a bad feeling about this)?


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

We've been out a handful of times plowing and a bit more salting. We were supposed to get 4-6 last night and like every storm this year, it fizzled out. A local radio station was making fun of the local weather forecasters this morning because they are 0 for 4 this year so far. I bought all new ice fishing gear and don't see using it much, which would be ok if we were plowing. It was so windy here last night after the snow/rain/snow mix that it blew a lot of lots dry. Our seasonal's are great starting in Jan and carry us over pretty comfortably until May but we have yet to do a normal plow route like we planned and make some money. I said in another post, I'm going to start making fly fishing flies and fishing lures for a p/t hobby.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

not worried Kinda looking forward to no snow might get in some Shed hunting before mice eats them


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## mullis56 (Jul 12, 2005)

Agreed this will weed out some of the in debt get rich quick w hores in our market...see you later.



agurdo17;1394384 said:


> snow drought will not drive seasonal prices down. It separates the men from the boys, The beer money brigade will be weeded out. Lots of really nice, new used equipment for sale here soon. Sorry in advance if i offend anyone. Our contracts are 95 percent seasonal. It all evens out........:salute:


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

BPS#1;1394975 said:


> I could try and explain it to you. But since you already know every thing ..... its unlikely you'd be able to comprehend it.
> 
> I'll save my energy.


I do agree with his green industry comment. I don't know of any "real" green industry businesses that are debt free, if so for a very short time. It is a good feeling when you get the title in the mail though, just got our's for the 06 AND a 10.00 check from Ford saying we over paid.  I think we're all getting cabin fever.


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## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

Brian Young;1395006 said:


> I do agree with his green industry comment. I don't know of any "real" green industry businesses that are debt free, if so for a very short time. It is a good feeling when you get the title in the mail though, just got our's for the 06 AND a 10.00 check from Ford saying we over paid.  I think we're all getting cabin fever.


So what constitutes a "REAL" business?

Maybe I've got some thing wrong with my business that needs changed.

I'm LLC.... check.
Legally operate my employees.... check
fully and properly insured..... check
have signed contracts...... check
operate commercial grade equipment..... check
business debt free (currently)...... check

What am I doing wrong?

I'm filling out an ap right now for trying to buy another commercial Z. But that loan won't take long to pay off with the amount of work I already have for 2012.

Be real damn careful with your truck now that its paid for.
Back in July I got the title on saturday, the following monday, 3 days later it was totaled.
Other driver's fault.


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## Kwise (Sep 24, 2009)

Although most Americans are in lots of debt, not everyone is. I don't see why it is assumed that we all have to be in debt to run a business. I'm not, and it sounds like some others here also aren't. It's called being smart with money.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

I just don't get this debt thing or why anyone wants to be in that position. I see some LC co's running around in a 60,000 diesel pickup pulling a $6,000 trailer with $20,000 worth of equipment on it and wonder WHY??? I do the same thing with a low miles 16 yr old truck, a used trailer, a new last year paid for in cash front mount, a USED this year paid for in cash front mount bought from a broke guy and other misc. equipment bough used and do EXACTLY the same job and get paid the same as the guy with near 90K under him!! Difference between me and that guy? I sleep good at night!!!


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## mullis56 (Jul 12, 2005)

We have manageable debt and aren't crying like you are about no snow as you are. It happens be smart business to have some debt but manageable and not lose sleep over no snow.

We have over 300 properties we manage, 15 salt trucks 10 are 8 to 10 yard trucks, 31 loaders sitting on properties, 11 skid steers, 42 push boxes attached to them, 700 tons of bulk sitting, 71 skids of ice melt, shall I continue?


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

BPS#1;1395031 said:


> So what constitutes a "REAL" business?
> 
> Maybe I've got some thing wrong with my business that needs changed.
> 
> ...


You know what I mean, if you are all of those and run debt free then good for you but you have to admit it's rare and almost impossible these days. I personally would much rather finance a piece of equipment and know it's going to be dependable for years than chance it to save a few bucks because these days there doesn't seem to be much difference. I would also much rather put a 300 dollar trimmer on a shop account and pay it off in a month or two with no interest than put out the 300 bucks if I don't have to. And you just proved my point, by the sounds of it your not going to be debt free. My point was 99.9% of companies I know of always need something or guys break something etc. and most of this stuff is sold in the hundreds and thousands dollar range.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

mullis56;1395072 said:


> We have manageable debt and aren't crying like you are about no snow as you are. It happens be smart business to have some debt but manageable and not lose sleep over no snow.
> 
> We have over 300 properties we manage, 15 salt trucks 10 are 8 to 10 yard trucks, 31 loaders sitting on properties, 11 skid steers, 42 push boxes attached to them, 700 tons of bulk sitting, 71 skids of ice melt, shall I continue?


You'll never convince me that debt is smart. My guess is your under 30 yrs old and have had the "credit is god" line pounded in your head for years. Ask your parents or grandparents if there still around what they think of debt. Better yet look around at the construction industry right now. *Debt dramatically increases risk, as many business owners learned in the recent economic downturn.* Businesses without debt not only survived, they prospering!! They made deals and bought out their competitors for pennies on the dollar, because they used their money to grow-they didn't have to make payments. I work on bank owed properties among my other lines of work and i can tell you in a small valley of 80,000 residents there are dozens of contractors that have lost or are loosing their homes and equipment. Common denominator? Loads of debt! The contractors i see working around here now all have older paid for equipment. Also a backup plan is smart! If my truck or plow goes down i have 2 other guys i know that will plow for me. They plowed for me last winter when i was on vacation for 2 weeks over Christmas.

Oh and that new 50,000 dollar truck? I can break down just as quick as the 10 yr old paid for truck!

*The best way to grow your business is to take a lesson from The Tortoise and the Hare. Slow and steady always wins the race. You don't need to borrow money to make it big. Instead, save for what you need and then expand. It lowers risk and minimizes mistakes.* .


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## KEC Maintaince (Jan 1, 2011)

Cash is King now adays.
i have a full time job and the person i work with lives 2 blocks from the place i work i live 30 miles if it snows she knows i will not be in and also knows i do resi customers when it snows she covers for me and i cover for her. 
i will not touch commercial due to the fact that you have to be on site at any given hour of the day. i can handle my resi customers and do a few extra but i also keep things into perspective.
i give you guys with commecrcial accts a lot of credit i do not wish or want your headaches or expenses.
i brought a used 2010 canyon quad cab yes i make payments but i also try to live with in my means 
i have 3 daughters a mortage etc etc and my bills are paid.
i bust my a$$ when it snows to make a few bucks it is not my primary income and it is not for beer money either i take pride in what i do and i am very perfessional when doing it i do not want to get or give any one a bad name


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

mullis56;1395072 said:


> We have manageable debt and aren't crying like you are about no snow as you are. It happens be smart business to have some debt but manageable and not lose sleep over no snow.
> 
> We have over 300 properties we manage, 15 salt trucks 10 are 8 to 10 yard trucks, 31 loaders sitting on properties, 11 skid steers, 42 push boxes attached to them, 700 tons of bulk sitting, 71 skids of ice melt, shall I continue?


we don't have any snow removal companies around here with the amount of loaders and skids as you. So I got to ask, what do you do with all those loaders in the off season or are they rentals? I assume your accounts pay a retainer fee each month for the equipment on site even if it doesn't snow? just curious how that works with that much equipment sitting when it doesn't snow.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

I think this post has officially been hijacked,lol. But interesting points of view. I honestly think unless this is your full time business you'll never understand.


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

Hey, Great discussion guys!! I didn't want to ruffle too many feathers but I am a firm believer on doing business debt free and I owe my financial education to someone some of you may have heard about. I would encourage EVERYONE to check out www.daveramsey.com . I have seen his plan work for my close friends (subs) and it is working for me. My favorite saying of his (and its true) is "if you live like no one else, later, you can live like no one else" I wish everyone a great season and a happy new year!!!


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

Plowtoy;1395293 said:


> Hey, Great discussion guys!! I didn't want to ruffle too many feathers but I am a firm believer on doing business debt free and I owe my financial education to someone some of you may have heard about. I would encourage EVERYONE to check out www.daveramsey.com . I have seen his plan work for my close friends (subs) and it is working for me. My favorite saying of his (and its true) is "if you live like no one else, later, you can live like no one else" I wish everyone a great season and a happy new year!!!


Dave is changing my family tree. Even my kids at 11 & 14 understand Debt is not prosperous......


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Kwise;1395042 said:


> Although most Americans are in lots of debt, not everyone is. I don't see why it is assumed that we all have to be in debt to run a business. I'm not, and it sounds like some others here also aren't. It's called being smart with money.


I agree with what you said Been doing this since 1981 snow and the lawn part
Was in debt once in 81 till 83 after that never again


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

mullis56;1395072 said:


> We have manageable debt and aren't crying like you are about no snow as you are. It happens be smart business to have some debt but manageable and not lose sleep over no snow.
> 
> We have over 300 properties we manage, 15 salt trucks 10 are 8 to 10 yard trucks, 31 loaders sitting on properties, 11 skid steers, 42 push boxes attached to them, 700 tons of bulk sitting, 71 skids of ice melt, shall I continue?


Bet you are scared all that stuff no money coming in unless your work is seasonal and you have some mouthly payment coming in
Glad Im a small guy never went that big 50 accounts is all I want for 5 men


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers eye yet pay no attention to the plank in yours?


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## PowersTree (Jan 9, 2006)

Yeah.

I'm looking for another truck, and haven't seen many guys throwing in the towel yet. Good thing its another truck for next year.


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## LON (Aug 20, 2006)

For the rodeo team. She had looked at others out there but didn't like the coaches. 


BPS#1;1394659 said:


> Cheyenne.
> 
> Why a Torrington CC from PA?
> Seems like a long way from home.
> ...


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## mullis56 (Jul 12, 2005)

Wrong! Not under 30 our landscape company has been in business since 1994.


mjstef;1395098 said:


> You'll never convince me that debt is smart. My guess is your under 30 yrs old and have had the "credit is god" line pounded in your head for years. Ask your parents or grandparents if there still around what they think of debt. Better yet look around at the construction industry right now. *Debt dramatically increases risk, as many business owners learned in the recent economic downturn.* Businesses without debt not only survived, they prospering!! They made deals and bought out their competitors for pennies on the dollar, because they used their money to grow-they didn't have to make payments. I work on bank owed properties among my other lines of work and i can tell you in a small valley of 80,000 residents there are dozens of contractors that have lost or are loosing their homes and equipment. Common denominator? Loads of debt! The contractors i see working around here now all have older paid for equipment. Also a backup plan is smart! If my truck or plow goes down i have 2 other guys i know that will plow for me. They plowed for me last winter when i was on vacation for 2 weeks over Christmas.
> 
> Oh and that new 50,000 dollar truck? I can break down just as quick as the 10 yr old paid for truck!
> 
> *The best way to grow your business is to take a lesson from The Tortoise and the Hare. Slow and steady always wins the race. You don't need to borrow money to make it big. Instead, save for what you need and then expand. It lowers risk and minimizes mistakes.* .


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## mullis56 (Jul 12, 2005)

No retainer have about 25% seasonal contracts on an average season. The equipment that isn't ours are winter only leases. We do dump trucking and landscaping in summertime.



dlcs;1395227 said:


> we don't have any snow removal companies around here with the amount of loaders and skids as you. So I got to ask, what do you do with all those loaders in the off season or are they rentals? I assume your accounts pay a retainer fee each month for the equipment on site even if it doesn't snow? just curious how that works with that much equipment sitting when it doesn't snow.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Not even close to worried, but would be nice if there was a little more gone out of the salt pile....

Math quiz, walls are 8', thats 4 full mafia blocks deep, as wide as a cat 252, how much have we used??


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## NickT (Feb 1, 2011)

2 million 5 hundred and 73 lbs  subscribed for good reading material


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Longae29;1395408 said:


> Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers eye yet pay no attention to the plank in yours?


LOLLOL. I never thought I would run into a Bible quote on Plowsite!


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## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

Worried, not at all. Just took a look at the billing for Dec. Have not plowed anything but still have 25k in salting and 6k from the few seasonals we have. It can stay like this all winter for all I care.


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Longae29;1395956 said:


> Not even close to worried, but would be nice if there was a little more gone out of the salt pile....
> 
> Math quiz, walls are 8', thats 4 full mafia blocks deep, as wide as a cat 252, how much have we used??


Not as much as you would have like to, by this time of the season?


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## sk187 (Dec 7, 2006)

We have 6"-12" coming Sunday - Monday

Only had 2 salts so far but we are almost all seasonal.


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

A little more action would be nice, but it doesn't mean I want to see half the seasons totals within a 48 hour period. These warm lake temps are going to remind some of us very soon where the cold air comes from...hang on & careful what you wish for.


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## Goldendog (Jul 1, 2011)

I've lost money on all my seasonal accounts for Nov and Dec. I'm already at 18 pushes. Have only a few per push but it so far has made up the difference. We are already well past or normal for the season. Keep your heads up, the snow will get there eventually.


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## APLC (Nov 25, 2008)

As my buddy DAVE RAMSEY says being and running a debt free business is the best way takes 90% of the risk out. So as this thread states no snow yet the guys that are financed to the eye lids are crapping in there pants because no money is coming in but the massive payment Still are. But that's JMO


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

And suddenly this thread veers back on course. lol

Still not worried either, because I too have very little debt that is covered by my seasonals. I even have 4 spreaders and a bunch of salt on hand. And a sprayer. And do this full time.


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## superdog1 (Oct 13, 2011)

I have zero payments for anything. I have a buddy that has a per push contract for a medium sized shopping center. Last year he was crazy busy. Instead of banking that cash, he went to the casino and spent it, lost it all for the most part. Then, in October, he got the bright idea to sell his older Meyer classic and used Dodge Ram pickup. He then went and bought a newer Ford F350 powerstroke and a Snowdogg XP plow. The payments are ugly, as he financed both the truck AND plow on the same loan. The only snow we had this year in my area was on the 30th of October. 

His new truck was in the shop having the plow installed on that day, so he just rode along and kept saying how smart of a move he made by making his latest purchase. He also told me how crazy I was for continuing to plow with my "Piece of junk" 94 GMC, and if he were me, he would drive my truck to the junk yard and head right to the dealership and get a new one. As we all know, he is eating his words!


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

superdog1;1396801 said:


> I have zero payments for anything. I have a buddy that has a per push contract for a medium sized shopping center. Last year he was crazy busy. Instead of banking that cash, he went to the casino and spent it, lost it all for the most part. Then, in October, he got the bright idea to sell his older Meyer classic and used Dodge Ram pickup. He then went and bought a newer Ford F350 powerstroke and a Snowdogg XP plow. The payments are ugly, as he financed both the truck AND plow on the same loan. The only snow we had this year in my area was on the 30th of October.
> 
> His new truck was in the shop having the plow installed on that day, so he just rode along and kept saying how smart of a move he made by making his latest purchase. He also told me how crazy I was for continuing to plow with my "Piece of junk" 94 GMC, and if he were me, he would drive my truck to the junk yard and head right to the dealership and get a new one. As we all know, he is eating his words!


Thats the classic stupid move that soooo many guys do. Offer to buy it from him for half the price when he's 3 months late on payments.


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

superdog1;1396801 said:


> I have zero payments for anything. I have a buddy that has a per push contract for a medium sized shopping center. Last year he was crazy busy. Instead of banking that cash, he went to the casino and spent it, lost it all for the most part. Then, in October, he got the bright idea to sell his older Meyer classic and used Dodge Ram pickup. He then went and bought a newer Ford F350 powerstroke and a Snowdogg XP plow. The payments are ugly, as he financed both the truck AND plow on the same loan. The only snow we had this year in my area was on the 30th of October.
> 
> His new truck was in the shop having the plow installed on that day, so he just rode along and kept saying how smart of a move he made by making his latest purchase. He also told me how crazy I was for continuing to plow with my "Piece of junk" 94 GMC, and if he were me, he would drive my truck to the junk yard and head right to the dealership and get a new one. As we all know, he is eating his words!


He is foolish.

Where is "middle of PA" at? I'm near Gettysburg.


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## superdog1 (Oct 13, 2011)

Brian Young;1396815 said:


> Thats the classic stupid move that soooo many guys do. Offer to buy it from him for half the price when he's 3 months late on payments.


While it is a nice rig,I wouldn't want it at even half the price. He paid WAY to much for it, IMHO. The plow is nice, but I really shouldn't be spending the $3000 (1/2 the price of the plow) with the Winter we have seen. Thank God for seasonals!!! The price of the truck was inflated so he would get enough cash out of it to pay for the plow. His credit isn't the best either, so his interest rate is crazy also. He is one of those guys that think looks are everything. The truck has big tires and a lift kit on it with LOTS of added chrome. I know he thinks it is a big deal when he drives onto the job site with that big diesel extended cab truck.

The truck in question is like 3 ft longer than my dually dump! With that plow on the front, it is another 3 or 4 ft longer again! He also has a few small driveways to do, so I have no clue how he plans on getting that monster in and out of those tight places??? 

Keep in mind that he and another guy do this shopping center. His partner told him NOT to buy the truck. His partner owns a skid steer with a pusher box on it. He told him to just use it (the skid) and save his money. He was having no parts of that and still bought the powerstroke?? WTF was he thinking? He kept telling all of us that his Dodge was getting old and sooner or later, it was going to break down and he would be stuck.

I personally can not see how it wouldn't be easier to use the skid and keep his old truck for a reserve. Keep in mind this Dodge truck only had like 83,000 miles on it and looked brand new? I guess I keep talking about it because I still can't believe it? Even after all of us telling him how stupid he was and his partner offering to let him use the skid, he still did bought it and the plow??? I just don't get it?


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## superdog1 (Oct 13, 2011)

ALC-GregH;1396836 said:


> He is foolish.
> 
> Where is "middle of PA" at? I'm near Gettysburg.


I am in Lebanon


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

APLC;1396663 said:


> As my buddy DAVE RAMSEY says being and running a debt free business is the best way takes 90% of the risk out. So as this thread states no snow yet the guys that are financed to the eye lids are crapping in there pants because no money is coming in but the massive payment Still are. But that's JMO


AMEN!! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

sk187;1396599 said:


> We have 6"-12" coming Sunday - Monday
> 
> Only had 2 salts so far but we are almost all seasonal.


Its about time, but Ill have to see it to believe it. I bet its closer to the 6" mark than 12". Its all supposed to be lake effect, so its all dependent on the winds. Temps back around 40 later next week. It would be our luck though that it skips over us and drops in Hudsonville and GR:waving:


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

superdog1;1396898 said:


> WTF was he thinking? He kept telling all of us that his Dodge was getting old and sooner or later, it was going to break down and he would be stuck.


This is the problem in today's society. He was thinking it would be cheaper (a monthly payment) to replace the truck rather than a component in the truck. The real problem is he probably doesn't have any reserve to do repairs and just figures its better to get a loan on a new truck because he doesn't have any way to fix the old one. It doesn't make sense does it??


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

Plowtoy;1396932 said:


> This is the problem in today's society. He was thinking it would be cheaper (a monthly payment) to replace the truck rather than a component in the truck. The real problem is he probably doesn't have any reserve to do repairs and just figures its better to get a loan on a new truck because he doesn't have any way to fix the old one. It doesn't make sense does it??


For the $8,000 - $10,000 per yr in payments not to mention extra insurance, higher licensing Ect. you can afford to buy a spare truck and add plowframe & wiring to match your plow. In fact i'll bet you could do it for about $6,000. Then if your rig goes down, call your ins. co, add the spare truck and roll! If the new truck goes down which is likely these days with crappy new truck quality, your still screwed as the dealer don't have plow truck loaners!!!


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## superdog1 (Oct 13, 2011)

mjstef;1396942 said:


> In fact i'll bet you could do it for about $6,000. Then if your rig goes down, call your ins. co, add the spare truck and roll!


You are very right! I only paid $6000 for my dump truck AND 9ft Western Pro plow. I had to put a few hundred $ into rubber and a ball joint, but I now have a solid truck that starts and runs every time. For what he paid for his truck and plow, I could by at least 4 trucks like the one I have, Lol


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

superdog1;1396956 said:


> You are very right! I only paid $6000 for my dump truck AND 9ft Western Pro plow. I had to put a few hundred $ into rubber and a ball joint, but I now have a solid truck that starts and runs every time. For what he paid for his truck and plow, I could by at least 4 trucks like the one I have, Lol


I did the same thing as you (basically reverse of your buddy). Traded my truck with payments in on a Jeep for the wife (which was cheaper). Paid Jeep off, bought and sold another truck w/plow and made money on the deal, found my current truck, paid cash, then paid cash for the new plow. New Springs, New Shocks on the front and she's already plowed 2 storms and is great - making the same money and plowing the same snow those guys with 60k setups are. First storm's money paid off the years insurance too.

I'd love for it to snow, the extra income gets put away from spring/summer projects.


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## PowersTree (Jan 9, 2006)

superdog1;1396956 said:


> You are very right! I only paid $6000 for my dump truck AND 9ft Western Pro plow. I had to put a few hundred $ into rubber and a ball joint, but I now have a solid truck that starts and runs every time. For what he paid for his truck and plow, I could by at least 4 trucks like the one I have, Lol


And they wonder how we can do a job cheaper. I don't need a $60k truck to feel complete. But then again, I know how to fix them.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

PowersTree;1396967 said:


> And they wonder how we can do a job cheaper. I don't need a $60k truck to feel complete. But then again, I know how to fix them.


Isn't that the truth!!!!!


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## superdog1 (Oct 13, 2011)

PowersTree;1396967 said:


> And they wonder how we can do a job cheaper. I don't need a $60k truck to feel complete. But then again, I know how to fix them.


Exactly! While no one should be lowballing any job, there is a BIG difference between lowballing and bidding a job for 1 or $2000 less because my overhead is a lot lower. I often wonder if the guys with the flashy new trucks are really good business people that are very successful, OR, they are doing no better than I and have a lot of payments?

I'm sure the answer is somewhere in between? If you are big enough and can turn over enough business, you may need those new trucks as a write off for tax purposes? If I were a customer, I'm not sure if flashy new trucks would tell me that this CO is very good and professional or if it would tell me that I can't afford these guys, as their bill is going to be very high because they have to make all those truck payments, Lol


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

superdog1;1397004 said:


> Exactly! While no one should be lowballing any job, there is a BIG difference between lowballing and bidding a job for 1 or $2000 less because my overhead is a lot lower. I often wonder if the guys with the flashy new trucks are really good business people that are very successful, OR, they are doing no better than I and have a lot of payments?
> 
> I'm sure the answer is somewhere in between? If you are big enough and can turn over enough business, you may need those new trucks as a write off for tax purposes? If I were a customer, I'm not sure if flashy new trucks would tell me that this CO is very good and professional or if it would tell me that I can't afford these guys, as their bill is going to be very high because they have to make all those truck payments, Lol


Good point on both parts. I think part of it is A. Tax Write Off's B. Warranty C. Image.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

superdog1;1397004 said:


> I often wonder if the guys with the flashy new trucks are really good business people that are very successful,


Even that is stupid if you do the math. Lets just figure the truck and 10K miles per yr plowing @ 12 mpg. If you make $50,000 plowing and you depreciate a $40,000 truck out over 5 yrs you get $8,000 in depreciation, $2500 in fuel and $500 in oil changes/misc. $1,000 in ins. (plowing liability can be deducted on the business side) you netted $38,000 before tax. Your in the 25% tax bracket so you pay $9,500 in taxes netting *$28,500 after tax.* If your truck was old and paid for and you put 10,000 miles on plowing you would write off $5,500 in mileage netting $44,500 figuring your still in the 25% tax bracket, you would pay $11,125 in tax *netting $33,375 after taxes* or *$4,875 dollars more in your pocket.* Now granted there are a LOT of variables but my accountant has NEVER been able to make a new truck pencil out for my business!

Same goes with houses/ shops Ect. People keep the payment forever so they can write it off!!! S T U P I D!!!!!! Let's do the math again. If you have a home/shop with a payment of $900, and the interest portion is $830 per month, you have paid around $10,000 in interest that year, which creates a tax deduction. If, instead, you have a debt-free home, you would in fact lose the tax deduction, so the myth says keep your home mortgaged because of tax advantages.

If you don't have a $10,000 tax deduction and you're in a 25% tax bracket, you will have to pay $2,500 in taxes on that $10,000. According to the math, we should send $10,000 in interest to the bank so we don't have to send $2,500 in taxes to the IRS. See the hypocrisy???



superdog1;1397004 said:


> I'm not sure if flashy new trucks would tell me that this CO is very good and professional or if it would tell me that I can't afford these guys, as their bill is going to be very high because they have to make all those truck payments, Lol


Amen to that!!


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

plowguy43;1397027 said:


> Good point on both parts. I think part of it is A. Tax Write Off's B. Warranty C. Image.


You forgot D. Ego


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

dfd9;1397118 said:


> You forgot D. Ego


LMFAO!!!! Yup!!!!!


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## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

I learned the very hard way where D will get you.


When the house of cards falls in................. you'll be in B court.


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## tjjn06 (Oct 28, 2010)

APLC;1396663 said:


> As my buddy DAVE RAMSEY says being and running a debt free business is the best way takes 90% of the risk out. So as this thread states no snow yet the guys that are financed to the eye lids are crapping in there pants because no money is coming in but the massive payment Still are. But that's JMO


Big Dave fan myself. Not really religious, but his financial teachings are very good. Just read his new EntreLeadership book, WOW! It was really good.

We run pretty much debt free, do have very little. All of our equipment is paid for, and it is a great feeling!


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

BPS#1;1397187 said:


> I learned the very hard way where D will get you.
> 
> When the house of cards falls in................. you'll be in B court.


That will go over many peoples heads BPS......................


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## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

mjstef;1397194 said:


> That will go over many peoples heads BPS......................


Those that have been there, done that will catch the reference.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

BPS#1;1397199 said:


> Those that have been there, done that will catch the reference.


Yup. For sure!


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## tjjn06 (Oct 28, 2010)

mjstef;1397056 said:


> Even that is stupid if you do the math. Lets just figure the truck and 10K miles per yr plowing @ 12 mpg. If you make $50,000 plowing and you depreciate a $40,000 truck out over 5 yrs you get $8,000 in depreciation, $2500 in fuel and $500 in oil changes/misc. $1,000 in ins. (plowing liability can be deducted on the business side) you netted $38,000 before tax. Your in the 25% tax bracket so you pay $9,500 in taxes netting *$28,500 after tax.* If your truck was old and paid for and you put 10,000 miles on plowing you would write off $5,500 in mileage netting $44,500 figuring your still in the 25% tax bracket, you would pay $11,125 in tax *netting $33,375 after taxes* or *$4,875 dollars more in your pocket.* Now granted there are a LOT of variables but my accountant has NEVER been able to make a new truck pencil out for my business!
> 
> Same goes with houses/ shops Ect. People keep the payment forever so they can write it off!!! S T U P I D!!!!!! Let's do the math again. If you have a home/shop with a payment of $900, and the interest portion is $830 per month, you have paid around $10,000 in interest that year, which creates a tax deduction. If, instead, you have a debt-free home, you would in fact lose the tax deduction, so the myth says keep your home mortgaged because of tax advantages.
> 
> ...


Sounds like Dave himself!

Our trucks are 8 - 12 yrs old. Even if something catastrophic happens, we can still repair them much cheaper than buying one. We just put a lot into one of them. Could have bought a little older tuck instead of fixing it, but we know the truck, the maint history, it's abilities (and lack there of), and have all plow fixtures, lights and everything already setup.

It was well worth fixing, instead of taking the chance of finding some one else's headache.


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## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

Check into gov surplus vehicles. Yeah most likely they'll be rode hard while in use but they are also maintained at or above manufacturer recommendations.

The guy that works for me came from the USAF motor pool.
He said they were anal meticulous about maint. Change the oil 500 before the 3000 recommendation to avoid going 100 miles over. etc etc etc

He knows where the outlet is for these used vehicles when the gooberment lets them go.
Its "near" here. My next pickup purchase I'll check them out. I'd like to be able to buy a back up pickup in 2012.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

www.gsaauctions.gov

www.govliquidation.com

Bought stuff from both places in the past......................


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## tjjn06 (Oct 28, 2010)

Thanks for the links


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## KSB (Mar 5, 2007)

You mean you don't currently own any backup! Oh Boy! Buy one soon! But I know you are debt free!!


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## rcn971 (Jan 28, 2011)

The nice thing about being debt free is that when a catastrophic incident happens you have the cash on hand to go buy another one...there will always be new ones on the lot and used ones as well. My trucks are an 01' with 190k and an 04' with 100k. They are both clean and reliable. It will be a cold day in hell before I spend almost $60k on a work truck.....just my .02


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

rcn971;1397707 said:


> The nice thing about being debt free is that when a catastrophic incident happens you have the cash on hand to go buy another one...there will always be new ones on the lot and used ones as well. My trucks are an 01' with 190k and an 04' with 100k. They are both clean and reliable. It will be a cold day in hell before I spend almost $60k on a work truck.....just my .02


Boy isn't that the truth! You can buy a nice rental house for 60K these days and THAT will pay you and appreciate unlike a truck which just goes DOWN in value.............


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## tjjn06 (Oct 28, 2010)

rcn971;1397707 said:


> The nice thing about being debt free is that when a catastrophic incident happens you have the cash on hand to go buy another one...there will always be new ones on the lot and used ones as well. My trucks are an 01' with 190k and an 04' with 100k. They are both clean and reliable. It will be a cold day in hell before I spend almost $60k on a work truck.....just my .02


Can we get an AMEN!!!


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## magnum1 (Aug 27, 2010)

diesellandscape;1393051 said:


> I'm just wondering how many of you guys are worried about what this winter will bring. I know here in pittsburgh we've only been out salting 2 times this year. I think at this time last year we had salted 7or8 times and pushed 3 or 4. Ive talked to a few friends and they arent happy about the lack of snow. I know if i was all per-push I would be crying right about now, But thank god we have seasonal contracts.


If it does'nt snow we bore holes for poured in place piers or excavate for foundations, then set, roll or crane manufactured & or modular homes, If it snows add plow snow at beginning just before bore holes. Plowing snow gives us a break from the usual, We have'nt had very many breaks so far this season. Hoping for more


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

magnum1;1397851 said:


> If it does'nt snow we bore holes for poured in place piers or excavate for foundations, then set, roll or crane manufactured & or modular homes, If it snows add plow snow at beginning just before bore holes. Plowing snow gives us a break from the usual, We have'nt had very many breaks so far this season. Hoping for more


I see your location is ID and ND. You working in the oil patch in Western ND???


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## magnum1 (Aug 27, 2010)

mjstef;1397861 said:


> I see your location is ID and ND. You working in the oil patch in Western ND???


Have crews in ND, MT & ID. But yes we are servicing companies in the Williston area


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

magnum1;1397880 said:


> Have crews in ND, MT & ID. But yes we are servicing companies in the Williston area


Williston is a HUGE cluster#^&#! Hope your guys stay safe there and have a place to sleep...........


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## magnum1 (Aug 27, 2010)

mjstef;1397888 said:



> Williston is a HUGE cluster#^&#! Hope your guys stay safe there and have a place to sleep...........[/QUOTE
> 
> You got that right. I'll be back there Monday morning for another three month stretch


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## magnum1 (Aug 27, 2010)

As far as living quarters we have RV's instde our shop with the equipment.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

magnum1;1397921 said:


> As far as living quarters we have RV's instde our shop with the equipment.


Are you setting mobiles there or what???


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## magnum1 (Aug 27, 2010)

Installing manufactured & modular units, Boring holes for poured in place piers, General excavation


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

magnum1;1397941 said:


> Installing manufactured & modular units, Boring holes for poured in place piers, General excavation


Last i heard there are near 20,000 job openings in the basin that cannot be filled due to no housing. A neighbor of mine is over there. He says it is a 45 minute wait to get gas, fast food joints only have drive through's open as they cannot staff counters even at 15 bucks an hour and the Wal-Mart in Williston is the 2nd busiest in the USA. Our local lumber yard is sending a dozen semi's of materials a week there.


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## magnum1 (Aug 27, 2010)

mjstef;1397970 said:


> Last i heard there are near 20,000 job openings in the basin that cannot be filled due to no housing. A neighbor of mine is over there. He says it is a 45 minute wait to get gas, fast food joints only have drive through's open as they cannot staff counters even at 15 bucks an hour and the Wal-Mart in Williston is the 2nd busiest in the USA. Our local lumber yard is sending a dozen semi's of materials a week there.


You can get fuel just as fast as anywhere else. Right about the staffing shortages, You can get housing if you can afford it. Walmart is a very busy store,


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## BOSS LAWN (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm give or take on it, more bored than concerned. We've only been out 3-4 times this season and my commercial accounts are all per push.


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

This is the exact reason i take a percentage of Per pushes and Another % of Seasonal Contracts!
it sucks if you only do per-push's! With a winter like this so far!


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm not close to the point of under estimating this winter. Last year, I believe the first time we salted a lot was the 23rd of december, the second time on the 27th, then went on to have an epic winter for our area. This year we serviced a few lots on the 23rd of december as well, and then salted lots the 26th into 27th. I do know we have been in a warming trend for several months now, but it just goes to show that we don't need to have a snow filled December to have a snowy winter. And we have had flucuating temps here, like most areas. Tomorrow we will be at or close to 50, Tuesday we will have a low of 9.

I do have mostly seasonals, which is how it worked out due to the bad winter last year, everyone wanted seasonal. I generally try to mix and balance the account types a lot better, but was forced into it a some situations.


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## RayRay (Jan 2, 2012)

One of the big problems that I see in our industry is people DO NOT know how to manage there money!!! Like the one post said " my friend who plows made a lot of money last year with all the snow, and blew it @ the casino, then bought a new truck & plow this year". So stupid!!! After almost 30 years in business you see the good times & bad!! Save,Save & then Save some more!! Try to only buy equipment you really need & pay cash as much as you can..Don't finance..(unless it truly makes sense & it is a must have to improve your business)pay your bills every month & keep that overhead LOW!!!!!!!!


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

RayRay;1400535 said:


> One of the big problems that I see in our industry is people DO NOT know how to manage there money!!! Like the one post said " my friend who plows made a lot of money last year with all the snow, and blew it @ the casino, then bought a new truck & plow this year". So stupid!!! After almost 30 years in business you see the good times & bad!! Save,Save & then Save some more!! Try to only buy equipment you really need & pay cash as much as you can..Don't finance..(unless it truly makes sense & it is a must have to improve your business)pay your bills every month & keep that overhead LOW!!!!!!!!


Very good statement Right here! If i may add. ALSO Dont surround your Company Around one "Big" Account. I've seen that hit a few companies this year Specifically! Because the instance you lose that account due to WHATEVER reason, You're left in the dust with 10 (truck) Payments and no income coming in!

Once again i think we are doing good with managing money so far but, I will be Scared nervous if February rolls around and we still havent done a FULL ROUTE PUSH!


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Plow man Foster;1400587 said:


> Once again i think we are doing good with managing money so far but, I will be Scared nervous if February rolls around and we still havent done a FULL ROUTE PUSH!


I think alot of guys would be. I heard last night that the NAO/AO is turning negative and the end of the second week of January looks colder and stormier. Our local guesser has snow three days towards the end of next week. lets hope for some at least light to moderate snows. hell i would take anythign at this point. Just need to get out there.


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

dlcs;1400601 said:


> I think alot of guys would be. I heard last night that the NAO/AO is turning negative and the end of the second week of January looks colder and stormier. Our local guesser has snow three days towards the end of next week. lets hope for some at least light to moderate snows. hell i would take anythign at this point. Just need to get out there.


Oh i've seen the Potential storm on accuweather for a couple days now. I think its like the 11, 12, and 13th.... Freezing rain then like 8" of snow! Sounds good to me!
But lately the storms have been changing 6 hours before they hit which sucks!

What happened to this????
Well i guess they were right about the lake effect snows (as Western MI is getting SLAMMED with 7-14" of snow right now) But to the east we are still praying for some!


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## BOSS LAWN (Nov 6, 2011)

Plow man Foster;1400622 said:


> Oh i've seen the Potential storm on accuweather for a couple days now. I think its like the 11, 12, and 13th.... Freezing rain then like 8" of snow! Sounds good to me!
> But lately the storms have been changing 6 hours before they hit which sucks!
> 
> What happened to this????
> Well i guess they were right about the lake effect snows (as Western MI is getting SLAMMED with 7-14" of snow right now) But to the east we are still praying for some!


A storm that size will keep us busy for a few days!


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

It goes in cycles. That's why you have to be careful with overhead / equipment payments. Seasonals are nice to have to meet those expenses. I am learning that this year. But you still can't bid to cheap on seasonals.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

Time to break out the firefighting equipment in January!! This is about 30 miles from the Canadian border. 34,000 acres and 15 buildings so far......

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_2ca893a0-380e-11e1-8a71-001871e3ce6c.html


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## 1982atm (Dec 20, 2010)

im not worried cause ive already chalked it up as a lose.................

no snow in the forecast threw the 20th in indy


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

Majorly worried. We depend on snow revenue. Being owed $20,000 from a landscaping job completed in October still makes it hurt so much more.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

lawnlandscape;1407488 said:


> Majorly worried. We depend on snow revenue. Being owed $20,000 from a landscaping job completed in October still makes it hurt so much more.


Better be filing liens............................


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## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

lawnlandscape;1407488 said:


> Majorly worried. We depend on snow revenue. Being owed $20,000 from a landscaping job completed in October still makes it hurt so much more.


That would hurt.

I'd start getting a lot more belligerent at this point in the collection process.
If that doesn't' bring quick results I'd go the lien route, maybe lawsuit etc.


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

mjstef;1407492 said:


> Better be filing liens............................


Job was for Walmart. Lien waiver signed. It was 1 of these large scale jobs that take forever to pay.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

lawnlandscape;1407510 said:


> Job was for Walmart. Lien waiver signed. It was 1 of these large scale jobs that take forever to pay.


You mean Chinamart????


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## Red_Rattler (Feb 28, 2001)

Yep, put the snowmobiles and trailer back behind the house where they are stored for summer to make more room since they wont be used anytime soon...

nothing predicted for the next 2 weeks and farther


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## IHI (Nov 22, 2003)

I really feel bad for you guys, this is my first winter in 16/17yrs I have'nt pushed snow, and got out of construction..lil over a yr ago to work as a machinest in a union shop. I laugh at the regular gas station groupies that have the new pick up's lined up, and steady day jobs punching a clock, whining about no snow and having to pay for their new plows....all of which are paid by under cutting the guys that know what overhead and profit are and not just doing it for hobby.

Good luck, hang in there, and I hope everybody gets multiple ice storms and big snow dumps...but I back in '07/08 when we got ice storm after ice storm I was in hog heaven  ZERO wear and tear of the truck, and made 2-3x's as much as we did pushing snow in 1/4 of the time!!!!!


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

lawnlandscape;1407488 said:


> Majorly worried. We depend on snow revenue. Being owed $20,000 from a landscaping job completed in October still makes it hurt so much more.


That really does suck, I've been there many times. I'm quite reasonable and will do almost anything I can to work w/ them, but when I start getting tossed around from different departments between local & corporate or someone blatantly lies about the "checks in the mail", it brings out the worst in me, and then the gloves are off. Last year this happened when some invoices were hitting close to the 120 day mark, in this case snow/ice removal. When the check didn't show again for about the 3rd time as promised, I got lucky a few days later w/ a really nice ice storm. I didn't show & waited for the phone call. I was prepared & explained to the maintenance manager how disgusted I was & disappointed that he hadn't gone to bat for me after all that I have done, including bailing them out on other properties that weren't even my own accounts. I finally got through to him & in his own disgust got me into the accounting room where you scan your ID to get in. Once inside, I firmly planted my @ss in the chair in front of the accounting manager, ended up sitting there for 1hour & 40 minutes. I wasn't budging. The GM & his staff squirmed as they made several attempts to contact corporate. The GM finally said "I'm giving this about another 12 minutes, if your not going to salt then I will have no choice but to call someone else". I said, you can do that if you want but...Any reputable company will see the 6-8' snow piles & being 3/4 way through the season...they will already know why it's not being done...and if you are so lucky to find a bottom feeding scab, I'm just going to threaten them w/ a subpoena...so go ahead, but wouldn't it just be a whole lot easier to get me a check # & routing #...about 20 minutes later I had what I wanted. Believe it or not, I still service that property.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

coldcoffee;1407523 said:


> That really does suck, I've been there many times. I'm quite reasonable and will do almost anything I can to work w/ them, but when I start getting tossed around from different departments between local & corporate or someone blatantly lies about the "checks in the mail", it brings out the worst in me, and then the gloves are off. Last year this happened when some invoices were hitting close to the 120 day mark, in this case snow/ice removal. When the check didn't show again for about the 3rd time as promised, I got lucky a few days later w/ a really nice ice storm. I didn't show & waited for the phone call. I was prepared & explained to the maintenance manager how disgusted I was & disappointed that he hadn't gone to bat for me after all that I have done, including bailing them out on other properties that weren't even my own accounts. I finally got through to him & in his own disgust got me into the accounting room where you scan your ID to get in. Once inside, I firmly planted my @ss in the chair in front of the accounting manager, ended up sitting there for 1hour & 40 minutes. I wasn't budging. The GM & his staff squirmed as they made several attempts to contact corporate. The GM finally said "I'm giving this about another 12 minutes, if your not going to salt then I will have no choice but to call someone else". I said, you can do that if you want but...Any reputable company will see the 6-8' snow piles & being 3/4 way through the season...they will already know why it's not being done...and if you are so lucky to find a bottom feeding scab, I'm just going to threaten them w/ a subpoena...so go ahead, but wouldn't it just be a whole lot easier to get me a check # & routing #...about 20 minutes later I had what I wanted. Believe it or not, I still service that property.


Good story.

...


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## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

lawnlandscape;1407510 said:


> Job was for Walmart. Lien waiver signed. It was 1 of these large scale jobs that take forever to pay.


I've heard too many of these stories. There is no way I'd go along with it.

They'll get a signed lien waver when they hand me the check.

The reason these big companies take advantage of their contractors is because they are allowed to.


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## dingybigfoot (Jun 12, 2008)

agurdo17;1394384 said:


> snow drought will not drive seasonal prices down. It separates the men from the boys, The beer money brigade will be weeded out. Lots of really nice, new used equipment for sale here soon. Sorry in advance if i offend anyone. Our contracts are 95 percent seasonal. It all evens out........:salute:


LMAO @ "beer money brigade.":laughing:


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## Red_Rattler (Feb 28, 2001)

On a side note, none of the trucks should be down if this season starts lol they have all been gone through with a fine tooth comb....


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## IHI (Nov 22, 2003)

Got to remember it's not just the snowplowers hurting, all the collision shops and related businesses, PDR guys, are really bumming right now too since nowbody is crashing cars, no hail to damage cars. Auto shops are'nt getting business repairing winter related problems, plow dealers are'nt getting the big influx of plow repairs that make them smile..

It's hurting alot of folks, just happy it's hurting the low balling hobbiest the most As said, there should be a huge influx of equipment onto the market come spring with guys trying to recoup LOL.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

IHI;1407654 said:


> It's hurting alot of folks, just happy it's hurting the low balling hobbiest the most As said, there should be a huge influx of equipment onto the market come spring with guys trying to recoup LOL.


I'm thinking that's about the time I get the plow for my F-150. I've already seen some good steals on Craig's list. It's not an influx though, but a trickle right now.

...


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## marcd97 (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm not nervous just bored runing out of stuff to keep busy


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## PowersTree (Jan 9, 2006)

White Gardens;1407717 said:


> I'm thinking that's about the time I get the plow for my F-150. I've already seen some good steals on Craig's list. It's not an influx though, but a trickle right now.
> 
> ...


I too am watching CL watching. There are starting to be more and more trucks listed daily. I'm holding out for the right deal to come along.


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

PowersTree;1407771 said:


> I too am watching CL watching. There are starting to be more and more trucks listed daily. I'm holding out for the right deal to come along.


we usually sell a pickup truck in the spring... We sold a 2003 sierra last year
This year it might be the 2500 Keep an eye out!

On another Note!!!
This is what i made for another thread where we had some guys saying that winter was over!


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## marcd97 (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm grateful we had a good fall clean-up season


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## PowersTree (Jan 9, 2006)

marcd97;1407828 said:


> I'm grateful we had a good fall clean-up season


I'm loving my seasonals this year. But I would rather be loosing money on my seasonals, cause my hourly work will make up 10 fold.


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## PowersTree (Jan 9, 2006)

Plow man Foster;1407809 said:


> we usually sell a pickup truck in the spring... We sold a 2003 sierra last year
> This year it might be the 2500 Keep an eye out!
> 
> On another Note!!!
> This is what i made for another thread where we had some guys saying that winter was over!


I won't buy a truck that's had a plow on it. I'm looking for plows, and trucks that have never had a plow.


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

PowersTree;1407915 said:


> I won't buy a truck that's had a plow on it. I'm looking for plows, and trucks that have never had a plow.


Oh RIGHHTTT! Forgot you already said that!


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## PowersTree (Jan 9, 2006)

Plow man Foster;1407947 said:


> Oh RIGHHTTT! Forgot you already said that!


It was in a different thread though......all is good!!

Its just everyone who has plow trucks for sale, think the plow makes it worth more. In my eyes, a plow devalues the truck its on, more than what the plow is worth. (Unless its a screaming deal like Eaton got on the white one)


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

PowersTree;1407959 said:


> It was in a different thread though......all is good!!
> 
> Its just everyone who has plow trucks for sale, think the plow makes it worth more. In my eyes, a plow devalues the truck its on, more than what the plow is worth. (Unless its a screaming deal like Eaton got on the white one)


Yeah i definitely know what you mean. We're Always Very skeptical when it comes to buying trucks... Maybe that's why i always end up buying new trucks! Then sell them later... I can usually find a Regular Resident to buy our pickups with the plow on them.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

Do your trucks last long enough with all the *rust moths* you have back there to be able to sell them for anything but scrap???


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

mjstef;1408063 said:


> Do your trucks last long enough with all the *rust moths* you have back there to be able to sell them for anything but scrap???


Here was one of the ads i found by googling some key info in my ad. http://www.freeadsclassifieds.net/gmc-sierra-27k-miles-2009-boss-plow-only-23600-west-bloomfield/ More pics! 
It wasnt rotted out. It was only used on driveways.

This one started out as a personal truck then we decided to put a plow on it... not the best idea when we got 80 drives to do with 5 inches of snow... It was no better than a jeep in 5" of snow!


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## A.M.Canfora (Nov 2, 2011)

All around my area I'm seeing tons of snow equipment for sale lately. seems like companies by me are now starting to sell there older snow equipment in the past two weeks. My business is taking a bit of a hit since there is no snow, I have no plows to repair or reskin. usually by this time I have fixed at least 7-8 plows that get bent like a pretzel. I just have one old western my friend wants me to reskin but he dose not want it back till spring.


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## 518Landscapes (Dec 1, 2010)

agurdo17;1394384 said:


> snow drought will not drive seasonal prices down. It separates the men from the boys, The beer money brigade will be weeded out. Lots of really nice, new used equipment for sale here soon. Sorry in advance if i offend anyone. Our contracts are 95 percent seasonal. It all evens out........:salute:


lol agreed, couldn't have said it better my self


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## Brantley_Dev (Nov 9, 2011)

Not worried, just pissed.... I was so busy this time last year, Now, with 3 municipal contracts and trucks just sitting in the garage. I'm bored


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## Plow man Foster (Dec 10, 2010)

Brantley_Dev;1409557 said:


> Not worried, just pissed.... I was so busy this time last year, Now, with 3 municipal contracts and trucks just sitting in the garage. I'm bored


Hell yeah Same here!
We have a nice mix of both seasonal and Per Pushes...
I know a couple of guys who have recently applied/ received a Part time job until it finally starts snowing. Last year this time we were pushing piles back with loaders and skids! I Wish we could be doing that now!


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## Brantley_Dev (Nov 9, 2011)

we got contracts in Southfield, Auburn Hills and Warren on top of the commercial and residential.... Money just sitting there waiting to be taken... just need the snow


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## Mr.Freezzz (Sep 17, 2010)

diesellandscape;1393051 said:


> I'm just wondering how many of you guys are worried about what this winter will bring. I know here in pittsburgh we've only been out salting 2 times this year. I think at this time last year we had salted 7or8 times and pushed 3 or 4. Ive talked to a few friends and they arent happy about the lack of snow. I know if i was all per-push I would be crying right about now, But thank god we have seasonal contracts.


Im loving it. Getting on top of my maintenance. Best of all its thinning out the herd!!!!


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## procut (Dec 1, 2004)

I would like to think it's thinning the heard and weeding out some of the fly by nights, but as far as I can tell, it's not. I do not personally know of anyone who was into snow plowing and got out of it because we haven't had hardly any snow this year. 

Same with I don't really see much for sale along the lines of used snow equipment. I've checked several of the nearby cities on CL around me a didn't see any plows or related stuff that was even worth buying. A lot of them were trucks I've been seeing posted on there for weeks. 

Maybe it's just me but I haven't PERSONALLY seen a single person throw in the towell on plowing yet this year.


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## chlawnservice (Nov 17, 2009)

I have been out only one time this year to salt thats all no plowing yet.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

We have several plows for sale here on CL all of a sudden. There must be some gold hidden in them or something. Almost $4k for Fisher MM1 and we might get one or two plowable storms on average. 

I'm putting my plow away this week. The long range forecast is all 50's and 60's. That's the gamble here. It's feast or famine.


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## Winterized (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm solo with only a few resi accounts this year. Just lucky to be able to ride it out with no cash flow concerns. Had only two events this year!

I'll bet you seasonal account guys get some gawd awful whining from some of your Cheap Charlie's.


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## A.M.Canfora (Nov 2, 2011)

procut;1410141 said:


> I would like to think it's thinning the heard and weeding out some of the fly by nights, but as far as I can tell, it's not. I do not personally know of anyone who was into snow plowing and got out of it because we haven't had hardly any snow this year.


I know I like to think that alsoThumbs Up


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## bdlawncare (Oct 1, 2011)

;( no snow in the forecast, i cant believe this!


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## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

Sounds like we'll get an inch or two tonight. First snow of the month.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Supposed to get our first Wintry mix event tonight[that aberration in October is excluded].Less than an inch so we'll probably be out just salting early Thursday.


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## Mr.Freezzz (Sep 17, 2010)

Here we have our local ads full of sweat deals on plows etc. Last winter was crap and now nothing theres a ton of guys who have folded this year. Its alot easyer to work for someone else they say.


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## PEP Plowing (Jan 11, 2011)

I do Residential plowing on the Main Line, a suburb of Philadelphia. We have not been out plowing this year and the forecast is just beginning to show signs of winter.... And then you see 50 degrees on the long range forecast! Last year we had 6 or 7 solid snow events which was outstanding. I just installed my low rig this week. Also had repairs done to the lift. 

We could really use the money due to the rotten economy.


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

Haven't plowed any snow yet this year. Luckily i banked $20k over the summer working but i'm sure it will be close to gone starting into the spring. I don't count on the snow to pay my bills but it sure helps out rather than just watching the money disapear.


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## lawn king (Nov 21, 2004)

I serviced my plows in early december, they have been sitting idle ever since! Not a singe event for us south of boston. I don't see that im gonna have to mount them up anytime soon? Lets face it, this seasons a bust! I can only hope that a good percentage of the lowballers go under!


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

Might get some plowing in for the next week. Very unstable conditions will be present across western Montana and central Idaho Saturday night through Monday morning resulting in the formation of widespread snow showers. Roadways will quickly turn from dry to snow covered and icy with periods of dramatically reduced visibility. Rapid accumulations can be expected at times under the stronger showers. Total snowfall accumulations of 2 to 5 inches in the valleys with 8 to 16 inches possible throughout the models.










Widespread heavy mountain snow is expected with total accumulation next week possibly between 4 and 8 FEET of new snow! Travel throughout the mountains and over passes will be significantly impacted by persistent heavy snow with potentially some blowing and drifting of snow.* Additionally there is growing confidence that many valley locations could see 4 to 8 inches of accumulating snowfall next week which may affect travel at times, especially from Tuesday evening through Thursday Night.* Some valleys may see over 12 inches! Stay tuned for further details regarding this developing winter storm.


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## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

"FEET"




:laughing: :laughing:




NWS is just messing with you.


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## RepoMan1968 (Jan 9, 2012)

PEP Plowing;1411001 said:


> I do Residential plowing on the Main Line, a suburb of Philadelphia. We have not been out plowing this year and the forecast is just beginning to show signs of winter.... And then you see 50 degrees on the long range forecast! Last year we had 6 or 7 solid snow events which was outstanding. I just installed my low rig this week. Also had repairs done to the lift.
> 
> We could really use the money due to the rotten economy.


pep , oct 29th we were at 555 bala plowing 2'' also treated it . gladwyne got it too . you missed it ?


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

BPS#1;1413837 said:


> "FEET"
> 
> :laughing: :laughing:
> 
> NWS is just messing with you.


No they aren't. It is not that uncommon to get that kind of snowfall in the hills. Blacktail Mtn. where i ski got 32" in one storm in November..............

http://www.flatheadnewsgroup.com/whitefishpilot/article_a73c1c06-3d70-11e1-bd6e-001871e3ce6c.html


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## Winterized (Mar 3, 2007)

Once upon a time.... in a land far far away...

http://www.thedieselgypsy.com/Labrador Snow.htm


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

This is one way to NOT have to worry. I have been plowing with a Crew Cab because it's what i need in the summer. I don't borrow $$$$ so i had to DEAL with the crew cab until something popped up. Today it did. Finally found a "shorter" truck for plowing. The crew cab is a bit much for a lot of my properties and this will fit in nice. It's a 94 3/4 ton with 76,000 original miles on it. 351 V8 gas with a slushbox tranny. Regular cabs are nearly impossible to sell here. Everyone wants a super cab or crew cab. Picked it up for $2,500 cash money!! RUST FREE MONTANA BODY TO BOOT!! Needs a tranny flush and an oil change and it will be ready for a set of Fisher mounts. It will be nice to have a backup plow vehicle............


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## tjjn06 (Oct 28, 2010)

Great deal!


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## snowbrothers101 (Jul 27, 2009)

mjstef;1413821 said:


> Might get some plowing in for the next week. Very unstable conditions will be present across western Montana and central Idaho Saturday night through Monday morning resulting in the formation of widespread snow showers. Roadways will quickly turn from dry to snow covered and icy with periods of dramatically reduced visibility. Rapid accumulations can be expected at times under the stronger showers. Total snowfall accumulations of 2 to 5 inches in the valleys with 8 to 16 inches possible throughout the models.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am still worried!!!


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## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

mjstef;1415278 said:


> This is one way to NOT have to worry. I have been plowing with a Crew Cab because it's what i need in the summer. I don't borrow $$$$ so i had to DEAL with the crew cab until something popped up. Today it did. Finally found a "shorter" truck for plowing. The crew cab is a bit much for a lot of my properties and this will fit in nice. It's a 94 3/4 ton with 76,000 original miles on it. 351 V8 gas with a slushbox tranny. Regular cabs are nearly impossible to sell here. Everyone wants a super cab or crew cab. Picked it up for $2,500 cash money!! RUST FREE MONTANA BODY TO BOOT!! Needs a tranny flush and an oil change and it will be ready for a set of Fisher mounts. It will be nice to have a backup plow vehicle............


if that has the e4od overdrive tranny, do not flush it. just drop the pan, drain it, and put in a new motorcraft filter. be sure to refill with Dextron III / Mercon rated fluid only. Do not use Dextron V.


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

linckeil;1416567 said:


> if that has the e4od overdrive tranny, do not flush it. just drop the pan, drain it, and put in a new motorcraft filter. be sure to refill with Dextron III / Mercon rated fluid only. Do not use Dextron V.


Just going to drain the pan, Tq Converter and cooler/cooler lines. I have a good friend who is a 20 yr master tech specializing in trannys at a Ford Garage and he will tweak it for me a bit. I don't have a flusher and to be honest you only get another 1/2 qt out by flushing vs dumping all drain plugs and lines. This is my 1st slushbox in about 18 years. I prefer a 5 or 6 speed. If it gives me any **** it will have a 5 speed in it so fast it will make your head spin!!


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## palmtree907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Sorry gang, we have had record snow fall here. Just bought a second truck and hired my first driver. Got tired of 12 hours in a truck or unreliable subs.


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## chlawnservice (Nov 17, 2009)

This is killing me no snow! So snow or spring hurry up! Need to make so more money ussmileyflagussmileyflag


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Finally got a little snow here in Ct.Got to plow whole route.No salting$ though.
Had to move fast before the rain and rising temps melted snow before we could push it
So now i'm a little less worried! Just a little less though.


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## dooleycorp (Jan 5, 2011)

we will get some snow they all can be like last years but it would be nice


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## mrwolf (Aug 4, 2011)

Well this was to be my first year plowing/salting. Two contracts with 7 properties total. I have very little debt and it has been a rough year with no snow, but I'll manage. I was not counting on snow to make money but I did not expect this. A nice little boost to recoup some of my money would be great. 

I agree that if 1 bad winter is gonna put you under you probably should not be in business. Especially after last winter. If anything this is like the ONE time I went to the casino. I lost $50 in about 20 minutes and never went back. I will approach next year carefully. This does not mean I will be scared to grow. I will just be more responsible with my money in the off season. 

It actually makes me feel good to have bought used equipment, I spent the pre season upgrading, maintencing and triple checking. Now I have all my equipment and My truck and snow equipment is paid for. I will put it away if it is not used this year, double check it in the fall and go into the season debt free on my lawn equipment if I have anything to do with it (only owe about 30% of it's value anyway)

Great site, Great advice!
Z


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

mrwolf;1419914 said:


> Well this was to be my first year plowing/salting. Two contracts with 7 properties total. I have very little debt and it has been a rough year with no snow, but I'll manage. I was not counting on snow to make money but I did not expect this. A nice little boost to recoup some of my money would be great.
> 
> I agree that if 1 bad winter is gonna put you under you probably should not be in business. Especially after last winter. If anything this is like the ONE time I went to the casino. I lost $50 in about 20 minutes and never went back. I will approach next year carefully. This does not mean I will be scared to grow. I will just be more responsible with my money in the off season.
> 
> ...


It looks as if you have your ducks in a row!! Congrats!


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

I threw in the towel and put up the white flag for the season yesterday. I put the plow back in it's summer home under my deck. Obviously it's never a guarantee we'll even see flurries here, so I can't complain too much.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

The 2005-2006 winter here I plowed 3 or 4 times all year...the 2006-2007 winter up until this point was very similar, then 20" on Valentines day, and 16" on St. Patty's Day, with a couple 2 inchers in between. 2009-2010 was pretty easy too...all the snow went south in DC,Baltimore and Jersey, not much in Albany. These type of years happen, just need to budget for them.


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## PEP Plowing (Jan 11, 2011)

Today was a bad day. It hit me all at once. Not only do we have ZERO construction work we have ZERO snow revenue. Things are VERY bad in Residential construction in my area. Snow plowing would have really helped get us through to spring.

Maybe I will drive down to Washington, drop my plow in front of the Capital Building, unhitch it and yell "YOU WON, YOU CAN KEEP THE PLOW"..... And then drive my truck off a bridge into the Potomac River.


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## RepoMan1968 (Jan 9, 2012)

PEP Plowing;1437282 said:


> Today was a bad day. It hit me all at once. Not only do we have ZERO construction work we have ZERO snow revenue. Things are VERY bad in Residential construction in my area. Snow plowing would have really helped get us through to spring.
> 
> Maybe I will drive down to Washington, drop my plow in front of the Capital Building, unhitch it and yell "YOU WON, YOU CAN KEEP THE PLOW"..... And then drive my truck off a bridge into the Potomac River.


people in Radnor dont do it like that . Keep that chin up . ussmileyflag
VOTE REPUBLICAN VOTE FOR CAPITALISM PROFIT IS NOT A DIRTY WORD payupwesport:laughing::laughi


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

PEP Plowing;1437282 said:


> Today was a bad day. It hit me all at once. Not only do we have ZERO construction work we have ZERO snow revenue. Things are VERY bad in Residential construction in my area. Snow plowing would have really helped get us through to spring.
> 
> Maybe I will drive down to Washington, drop my plow in front of the Capital Building, unhitch it and yell "YOU WON, YOU CAN KEEP THE PLOW"..... And then drive my truck off a bridge into the Potomac River.


Damn thats NUTS! I have a friend Northwest of Reeding who owns a res/comm Garage Door install/service company and he keeps telling me he's never been busier! 60 miles away and stagnant? No rhyme or reason to this economy..............


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## RepoMan1968 (Jan 9, 2012)

mjstef;1437369 said:


> Damn thats NUTS! I have a friend Northwest of Reeding who owns a res/comm Garage Door install/service company and he keeps telling me he's never been busier! 60 miles away and stagnant? No rhyme or reason to this economy..............


facsinating


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## mulcahy mowing (Jan 16, 2006)

It will be a good summer to pick up trucks/plows cheap!


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## mjstef (Dec 31, 2009)

mulcahy mowing;1437397 said:


> It will be a good summer to pick up trucks/plows cheap!


Good winter for that! Wait till summer and they'll be gone. I've been buying.......AND CHEAP!!!!!


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