# What do you think about Fast Pay



## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

I was sent a e-mail wanting me sign up for Fast Pay from Brickman.
They would pay everything by March 10th. A person wouldn't have to wait till May to get there final payment.
If you sign up for it you have to agree to there discount price.

The discount they was showing me they would keep 1500.00 if I sign the early payment form.

I didn't sign it I'll wait for it all

Who else received the e-mail ????


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## slc12345 (Feb 18, 2008)

we got the email also. they would end up keeping $6,000.00 from us. screw that we would rather just wait for the full amount. they already beat us up every year and now want to take more, screw that we will just wait. it was tempting though.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

slc12345;1936803 said:


> we got the email also. they would end up keeping $6,000.00 from us. screw that we would rather just wait for the full amount. they already beat us up every year and now want to take more, screw that we will just wait. it was tempting though.


ouch that is a lot


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## slc12345 (Feb 18, 2008)

that was the total for 4 sites combined.


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

did anyone do the math to figure out what the annual interest rate on that effectively loan was? I did it yesterday but I drank too much last night and can't remember. I think it was somewhere around a hundred and twenty percent APR.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Antlerart06;1936782 said:


> I was sent a e-mail wanting me sign up for Fast Pay from Brickman.
> They would pay everything by March 10th. A person wouldn't have to wait till May to get there final payment.
> If you sign up for it you have to agree to there discount price.
> 
> ...


Sounds like highway robbery to me,  pun intended. I have a better idea. How about they pay you by the due date on your invoice (my payment terms for all but 2 of my accounts are net 15, but I give a unwritten/unadvertised 5 day grace period) or they pay a late fee. My 2 accounts that aren't net 15 are net 30, because both of those, the bill has to be sent to my local contact with the company who then has to forward it on to his/her boss out of state, so they asked for additional time.

That being said, the only two accounts that are usually late in paying are those two, and it is usually only by a couple days, so no big deal. But there is no way I would allow or agree to what they are offering you. Our margins in this business are close enough without them having to STEAL an additional couple thousand for the PRIVILEGE of being paid on when agreed. What a crock. :realmad:


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

derekslawncare;1937220 said:


> Sounds like highway robbery to me,  pun intended. I have a better idea. How about they pay you by the due date on your invoice (my payment terms for all but 2 of my accounts are net 15, but I give a unwritten/unadvertised 5 day grace period) or they pay a late fee. My 2 accounts that aren't net 15 are net 30, because both of those, the bill has to be sent to my local contact with the company who then has to forward it on to his/her boss out of state, so they asked for additional time.
> 
> That being said, the only two accounts that are usually late in paying are those two, and it is usually only by a couple days, so no big deal. But there is no way I would allow or agree to what they are offering you. Our margins in this business are close enough without them having to STEAL an additional couple thousand for the PRIVILEGE of being paid on when agreed. What a crock. :realmad:


You must never work for Brickman and have a Fix price contract 
You don't send a invoice to them every 10th of the month they send your money and all money is a month behind. 
Plus I have 1 contract that has a 90 day turn around. So like this month check I got was for Oct service Sent in first week of Nov.

Brickman only doing it I think since its been a mild snow season. They are trying to put more money back in there pockets 
They never ask last year since it was a bad year Lots of snow.
Really was a bad idea for them to try get some back.
1500 on me wasn't bad I would still get 24k .
But thinking , had to sign it before Feb 5th. Knowing my luck if I signed it Feb and march would be the killer months. I don't gamble, so I didn't sign it .


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Antlerart06;1937990 said:


> You must never work for Brickman and have a Fix price contract
> You don't send a invoice to them every 10th of the month they send your money and all money is a month behind.
> Plus I have 1 contract that has a 90 day turn around. So like this month check I got was for Oct service Sent in first week of Nov.
> 
> ...


Nope, you are correct. I have never worked for Brickman OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER (in lawn care). That is why I started my own business; so that I could do things THE WAY I WANT TO DO THEM. I am a one man operation, so I have the LUXURY I guess you could say, of not having to make payroll for 50 other guys. So, since I only have to worry about myself, that allows me to be very picky when it comes to accepting OR DECLINING a new client. It's my business. WE SIGN MY CONTRACTS WITH MY TERMS. If they don't want to play by that, they can look elsewhere for a contractor. That is one of the reasons why I went into business for myself. I got sick of playing by someone else's rules. There is NO WAY I would ever give anyone 90 days to pay me. I work hard for the money I earn as I'm sure you do as well. by giving them 90 days, you are allowing them to operate with their hand in YOUR WALLET. They make payroll, buy fuel and supplies, make repairs to equipment; all done with YOUR MONEY. payup It is crazy. I don't understand why you guys will agree to those kinds of terms. It's not good business sense, IMO.  Is your bank going to let you pay your mortgage every three months? NO. Will Ford accept you making a truck payment when ever you feel like it? NO, you will end up going to get your vehicle out of the impound lot after it's repo'd.

It's just a business model for disaster, and one I refuse to enter into. But, again, I don't have employees who are depending on me for the roof over their head or the money for their car payment. I guess if I did, I might be desperate to take on anything I could find. Just glad I don't have to put my self in that type of situation. I hope it works out for you.


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## bah1491 (Nov 6, 2009)

The discount percentage is actually 7%. Which is not terrible. Had they offered to upfront pay the entire season in November, I would have accepted. We did not accept, honestly maybe if I knew we could have the check next week and it was only 4%-5% I might consider it. At this point it has been a slow winter for us, so the seasonals are what has kept us alive. ( that's the intended purpose of a seasonal) 

It actually states on the paperwork that it is 7%. I also did the math.

Brickman has been good for us, for the past five years to be exact. Have your crews report the services, and you get paid net 30. Easy as that.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

derekslawncare;1938117 said:


> Nope, you are correct. I have never worked for Brickman OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER (in lawn care). That is why I started my own business; so that I could do things THE WAY I WANT TO DO THEM. I am a one man operation, so I have the LUXURY I guess you could say, of not having to make payroll for 50 other guys. So, since I only have to worry about myself, that allows me to be very picky when it comes to accepting OR DECLINING a new client. It's my business. WE SIGN MY CONTRACTS WITH MY TERMS. If they don't want to play by that, they can look elsewhere for a contractor. That is one of the reasons why I went into business for myself. I got sick of playing by someone else's rules. There is NO WAY I would ever give anyone 90 days to pay me. I work hard for the money I earn as I'm sure you do as well. by giving them 90 days, you are allowing them to operate with their hand in YOUR WALLET. They make payroll, buy fuel and supplies, make repairs to equipment; all done with YOUR MONEY. payup It is crazy. I don't understand why you guys will agree to those kinds of terms. It's not good business sense, IMO.  Is your bank going to let you pay your mortgage every three months? NO. Will Ford accept you making a truck payment when ever you feel like it? NO, you will end up going to get your vehicle out of the impound lot after it's repo'd. That's funny I can see you must have loans on stuff
> 
> It's just a business model for disaster, and one I refuse to enter into. But, again, I don't have employees who are depending on me for the roof over their head or the money for their car payment. I guess if I did, I might be desperate to take on anything I could find. Just glad I don't have to put my self in that type of situation. I hope it works out for you.


Been working for 20 years with same customer lost it twice but always get it back for that reason everybody needs there money they cant float there business like I can.
Plus with that 90 turn around job they are paying for a higher rate anyway.
Its a job that I can send a guy there every week + the mowing crew will stop to.
There is always something to do there.
Last year was a 60k account.
I have one that's a 60 day turn around Its just mowing 58k last year 
Doing this for 34 years haven't seen a disaster I must be doing something right I don't have no loans everything is paid for. Can you say that?
Last year almost hit 400k it was good year for snow and good year for landscape.
I have 3full and 3 part employees business ,I would not want to be a solo guy in this field of work

Only takes one accident to your self and your out of business .

Sure be nice people would pay to my terms. But to get the high paying jobs sometimes a person has to ride with there rules.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

bah1491;1938143 said:


> The discount percentage is actually 7%. Which is not terrible. Had they offered to upfront pay the entire season in November, I would have accepted. QUOTE] Same here they offer that in Nov I would thought about it .


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Antlerart06;1938175 said:


> Been working for 20 years with same customer lost it twice but always get it back for that reason everybody needs there money they cant float there business like I can.
> Plus with that 90 turn around job they are paying for a higher rate anyway.
> Its a job that I can send a guy there every week + the mowing crew will stop to.
> There is always something to do there.
> ...


No, unfortunately I can't say everything is paid for YET. I have a 2012 truck that I bought new. Financed it for 5.5 years. If I had had a decent winter this year, and a good summer (judging by the warm temps and little moisture we are seeing now, I'm guessing my summer will suck as well) my plan was to have the truck paid off by the end of 2015. In my opinion, that's pretty good considering it's a $75,000.00 truck. And as of September 2014, I now have a loan on a 2012 Case SV250, obviously bought used (for $35,000.00). That is the only equipment out of everything I have that I owe money on. For a one man operation, I think I'm doing pretty good. Since November 2011 I've acquired:

2012 F550 chassis cab which had added to it:
Swaploader SL145 hooklift
Custom aluminum diamond plate headache rack w/ 2 mini light bars
two under bed side boxes
custom boxed rear bumper w/integrated LED lights

For that truck, I have:
2) 15yd roll off dumpsters with company logos
a 20yd roll off dumpster with logos
a 15" dovetailed flatbed with 12" sides and custom side ramp for mowers/trimmers or when I need it moved, my skid steer.
a 12 flatbed with a 275 gal tote, 2 electric pumps and a hose reel mounted on it. Also mounted is a 3.1 cuyd Monroe hydraulic auger v-box spreader.
Meyer 10.5' SV2 plow

In addition, I own:
a Ferris IS3100 60" ztr sit down mower with bagger system 
a Exmark Vantage 48" stand on mower
an aluminum bagger w/leaf extender for the Vantage
2 stihl weed eaters
1 stihl combi system w/edger and shrub trimmer attachments
1 stihl hedge trimmer
stihl 600 back pack blower
Honda HS720 snow blower
2 Lesco walk behind spreaders - 1 for lawn, 1 for salt
1 Lesco elec spreader that mounts on mower for lawn

2012 Case SV250 with:
Vernig snow bucket
HLA 3200w914 snow plow
a 20' shipping container with about 20 tons of salt in it

With the exception of the Case SS and the shipping container, everything else was purchased BRAND NEW. With the exception of the truck and loader, everything else is paid off 100%. Not bought on a credit card and still carrying a balance, BUT PAID OFF.

Can you name off a list probably 5-6 times that long? I'm sure you can, but again, for a one man operation, I think I'm in pretty good shape. Just as a comparison, since you threw out numbers, my goal for the 2014 season was to hit $100,000.00 gross for the first time ever (been in business full time since 2006). With last winters snow services (good year) mowing and fertilizing services and my roll off dumpster rentals, I hit $113,000.00. I ended the mowing season with 36 weekly accounts.

Again, am I doing as good as you, maybe not. Including you, you have 7 times the manpower that I do, yet you only grossed not even 4 times as much. But for one guy doing all that plus all the bidding, billing, collecting, dumping and delivering roll offs, I think I did pretty dam good, IMHO.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Is it 7% of the entire contract or 7% of the remaining balance of the contract. Ive seen where NSP offer this but not sure what the percentage was.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Regardless of good or bad deal it's just an option offered. Maybe next season they will offer it at the beginning and maybe a lower rate.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

derekslawncare;1938221 said:


> .


LOL you are in trouble you get hurt and cant pay the bills 
Say you forgot list you hand tools :laughing::laughing:

You have your own shop or you renting a place ,or you doing from home.

Your working for the bank I see. So you play by there rules not your own rules.

Snow this year sucks But this one HD I play by there rules I still get paid I might have to wait a month to get my money but sure is nice and if winter stays like is now. If season was over today I can say I made 25,500 from one job.

Wouldn't you like to have one like that. O no My term you find someone else.

Since your in a PP contest I have 10 mowers 4-72'' 5-60'' 1-50'' last year just mowing $180k with same number of accounts as you

You are hoping for snow I care less for the snow 
Every body draws a employment check when we are not working 
And money still rolling in sure they are past due but still coming in.


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## bah1491 (Nov 6, 2009)

7% entire contract. We offer 5% prepay to our clients


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Antlerart06;1938324 said:


> LOL you are in trouble you get hurt and cant pay the bills
> Say you forgot list you hand tools :laughing::laughing:
> 
> You have your own shop or you renting a place ,or you doing from home.
> ...


Your just as bad as him throwing numbers around. Just because you owe money to the bank doesn't mean they make the rules. Back to the matter at hand 7% is a crazy amount to give up for early pay.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

JD Dave;1938377 said:


> Your just as bad as him throwing numbers around. Just because you owe money to the bank doesn't mean they make the rules. Back to the matter at hand 7% is a crazy amount to give up for early pay.


I know I'm but he came on preaching in a thread he had no clue about 
One thing leads to other _it happens


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Antlerart06;1938486 said:


> I know I'm but he came on preaching in a thread he had no clue about
> One thing leads to other _it happens


At least your honest. Lol


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

JD Dave;1938550 said:


> At least your honest. Lol


yep and 7% richer


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## psreeder (Mar 30, 2010)

I 've been doing brickman work for a little over a year now and while I'm not getting rich on it. It is definitely giving me a steady cash flow. The checks always come. I started doing seasonal Contacts last year and lost money. Reworked them this year and now we're doing real good. Brickman is worth working for just don't put all your accounts with them.


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## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

I moved some post out between Antler and Derek. You two need to stop arguing with each other. Points have been made. Lets get this thread back on track


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## Minimatt3535 (Nov 3, 2006)

They sent me the fast pay email as well. I had no intention of doing it, as I'm not in desperate need of money so why would I give up $3000. Get a call this morning telling me that they have someone to cover my biggest site starting February 1st and I don't agree to drop my seasonal rate by $10,000 I'm out. 

Considering that I heard good things about brickman, and so far had been paid on time and had no issues with them... this was a bit of a shock. I was told that in November they were "Giving guys whatever they asked for to get the site covered, and now we are expecting you to return the favor by dropping your rates" As if that is supposed to make me feel better and this low move okay? 

Finally I mentioned that I MIGHT consider dropping the rate slightly, but I wanted everything paid up front like the fast pay email the sent me. As soon as I mentioned that email he told me I should just accept that and wont have to deal with this 10k insanity. Considering how one sided there subcontractor agreements are, it looked like I was out if they wanted it that way. So I took the fast pay, better to lose 3k than 10k. 

I don't know if I'll see my money, I sure hope that I do. Things were going great, and I was ready to pull the trigger on 15 summer sites with them. Hard to consider having any sort of relationship with a company that did that to me though. 

I really never had a problem with brickman until this, and even told guys about sites that they needed someone to cover. I'd hope I am the only one they screwed over like this, but I highly doubt that is the case.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Minimatt3535;1942719 said:


> They sent me the fast pay email as well. I had no intention of doing it, as I'm not in desperate need of money so why would I give up $3000. Get a call this morning telling me that they have someone to cover my biggest site starting February 1st and I don't agree to drop my seasonal rate by $10,000 I'm out.
> 
> Considering that I heard good things about brickman, and so far had been paid on time and had no issues with them... this was a bit of a shock. I was told that in November they were "Giving guys whatever they asked for to get the site covered, and now we are expecting you to return the favor by dropping your rates" As if that is supposed to make me feel better and this low move okay?
> 
> ...


This is EXACTLY the point I was trying to make to the OP, before it was removed. In this particular scenario, Brickman is acting as an NSP, which EVERYONE on this site JUST LOVES to do business with. Sorry they screwed you. It is bound to happen to most on here who enter into such one sided agreements with these big companies. Some guys on here are BIG enough to absorb the loss/write it off and go on. Some aren't. This is why I CHOOSE to stay a one man operation. I don't have to gross huge numbers to make money and I can be as choosy as I want to be in who I work for because the only guy I gotta worry about paying.......is me. Is my business model right for everyone? Of course not, but it works for me. Again, sorry they screwed you. Others take the warning.


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## snowplower1 (Jan 15, 2014)

I have heard of almost every nsp taking money back on a year like this. Ik Dentco did it to my dad a long time ago. They took back 3%.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

snowplower1;1942817 said:


> I have heard of almost every nsp taking money back on a year like this. Ik Dentco did it to my dad a long time ago. They took back 3%.


So if I understand you correctly, in a year of average snowfall, you get screwed because they hardly (if even that) pay you what the account is worth. In a year of above average snowfall, they screw you and clobber you over the head because now you REALLY aren't making any money. Then when we have a year like this (no snow for most of us) when you finally think it may work out in your favor, nope bend over we're screwing you again cause we're going to take back what would have finally been a good payment? Yeah, I'm gonna rush right out and start booking those accounts for next year. NOTTTT.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

I love when my customers pay me late.


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