# Dump Hoist



## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

Hey guys. Not sure anyone here has any experience in this or not.

I am making my own dump truck. 1995 Ford F-Superduty(F450) power stoke Stick 4wd. 161" WB.

Right now it currently has a 12 movers body on it. That will be coming off and a Reading "rev pack"( tool box that goes between cab and bed)

I will be making my own flat bed and It will dump. I plan on PTO driven since I don't have a whole lot of faith in the electric/hydraulic units.

NOW, here is my question. Without spending an arm and a leg. I need to find a Dump Hoist. I have been looking on CL and Ebay but no luck.

Also I want to keep the body as low as possible. I do NOT want a sub frame.

Another catch. It needs to be mounted far enough forward to mount a gooseneck ball 2" in front of the rear axle center point

Does anyone have any suggestions on a specific brand or model hoist and where to get one?

I have been looking at a Scott/tafco but have yet to find a local supplier


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

i have a 35 year old scott lite flatbed rack dump body i took off a 79 F350 and put on my 04. it uses 2 external 2 stage pistons.very stable platform. i plan on mounting the pistons the same way they were on the 79, to the outside of the frame, and then to a bar that runs through the i beams of the body. 
not sure on how to accomplish the fifth wheel hitch though.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I was repairing a F-550 today. The sub frame is only 4 1/2 high. I made my own mason dump, but it had a sub frame, two piston lift. How you want to do this with a ball in front of the axle, I don't no what to yell you. Their is a guy who posts here who seems to be a good fabricator. Mabe he will jump in.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

i really don't see how a dump with a fifth wheel hitch will work unless it is a power up/power down dump setup. 
with a power up/gravity down setup, i can see the body lifting from the weight of the trailer when taking off or if the trailer brakes are stronger than the truck brakes when stopping.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I remember seeing a ball mount in a pickup bed you would crank up if you needed it. Otherwise it sat below the bed level. With a flatbed it could be done, depending on his fabrication skills. I personally would not do it. He also said he wants to do this on a low buget.


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## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

The gooseneck ball would be mounted to the frame. The bed would have a trap door to access it. Also the hoist would be mounted just far enough ahead to clear the ball. just like this truck.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

that would work. my bed basically sits on the frame, it only has one 2X4 as a "bumper" between the frame and the body rails.


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## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

Hind site is 20/20. I should of kept the hoist off that truck and just left it a flat bed before selling it


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## CornerStoneProp (Nov 22, 2009)

I happen to have a spare mason bed with lift for pto 
style pump if you are interested. It is in CT


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## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

Sorry, I do not want a dump body and unless the PTO is from a s-42-zf5 diesel trans it does me no good


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I think he just has the body and lift piston, but not sure. You have to go to a Chesa dealer and get the correct PTO and pump set up. If he has a pump, you run a PTO drive shaft to the pump, unless its a direct mount pump. I did a clutch last month on the same truck setup you listed. It had a direct mount pump on the PTO. The truck is for sale also.


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## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

Like I said... Unless it came off a s-42 ZF diesel it will not work


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## CornerStoneProp (Nov 22, 2009)

The truck was a 96 5speed with 7.3 diesel not sure which trans, but no I don't have the pump.


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## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

CornerStoneProp;2008642 said:


> The truck was a 96 5speed with 7.3 diesel not sure which trans, but no I don't have the pump.


Yeah. That is a s-47 trans. different drive gear. But thanks anyway


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't see why you don't want electric. Have 5 and no major issues. Cheaper IMO


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## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

Cheaper, easier yes. Better, or stronger No.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Diesel_brad;2008746 said:


> Cheaper, easier yes. Better, or stronger No.


Really? Seems that they can lift 5 tons. 
Seems there's only wires you need to run, not hydro lines. 
Seems that you can operate them at any engine speed and not have a fear of blowing the pto.
For your application I don't see why you would want a pto.


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## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

dieselss;2008750 said:


> Really? Seems that they can lift 5 tons.
> Seems there's only wires you need to run, not hydro lines.
> Seems that you can operate them at any engine speed and not have a fear of blowing the pto.
> For your application I don't see why you would want a pto.


Just look at ANY hoist spec sheet. They all are reduced by appox 10% using an electric hoist.

Just for example. The Scott/Tafco 400DH hoist I am looking at goes from 6.6ton to about 6 ton. A 1500b loss!!!! So YES, the electric pumps are NOT as strong.

Again. SIMPLE AND EASY is NOT better. Have you ever wondered why Real dump trucks do NOT use electric/hydraulic setups? because they SUCK in comparison to live PTO


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

I completely know this. 
Do you know why smaller dumps uses electric......EASIER! 
And how much are the smaller 1 tons ALLOWED to carry? They don't need the hydro power when the electric is just fine.

And you've been looking since the 19th. You could have bought, fabbed, and installed already. 1500lbs loss,,,,you'll never miss it.


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## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

I currently have a 6x10 dump trailer. 24" high sides. the Electric/hydraulic hoist will NOT pick the body up when full. WTF good is it if it will not pick it up when full? I have to leave the 1st 2' empty or it will not pick it up. So that means I am loosing 25% of what i COULD be hauling. It does not take long to LOOSE money. For every 4th load I am loosing one. SO how much money am I saving by having an electric pump again?

My truck can legally carry almost 8 ton. But It will carry MUCH more than that. What good is it if it would not be able to dump it. No point in having a DUMP truck I have to SHOVEL off.

Thanks for adding NOTHING to this post other than you wanting me to take the CHEAP way out when that was not even the question


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

My truck can legally carry almost 8 ton. But It will carry MUCH more than that

If that's the case, then you need a bigger truck. Always nice to see someone admitting they will overload there truck.
Define "full"
What you wanna fill.it to? Or what the manufacture says is full? 

What the pump hoist rated at?
What's the axles rated for?

And I bet you special order your radios to goto 11 just because, right.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Are you trying to find a used pto and pump, or going new?


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## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

The rating is a RECOMMENDATION by ford. Not carved in stone. I go by axle ratings and tire ratings. BOTH are over what Ford rated the truck for.

As for "full". I want the 8x9x2' bed FULL AKA water level and the hoist to lift it. is that asking too much? I don't think so And I also want it to do it ALL THE TIME.

The dana 80 rear axle is rated at 11k. The front dana 70 is rated at over 9k. So there is 19k while the truck is only rated for 15k

Radios?


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## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

If at all possible I would like to go used, but If the price is right I will buy new.

I can get a NEW pto for 450


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## adksnowo (Dec 14, 2005)

Diesel_brad;2008851 said:


> The rating is a RECOMMENDATION by ford. Not carved in stone. I go by axle ratings and tire ratings. BOTH are over what Ford rated the truck for.
> 
> As for "full". I want the 8x9x2' bed FULL AKA water level and the hoist to lift it. is that asking too much? I don't think so And I also want it to do it ALL THE TIME.
> 
> ...


Clearly you have never tangled w/ DOT enforcement. The nice officer might have a different interpretation of GVWR.


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## Diesel_brad (Sep 20, 2010)

adksnowo;2028556 said:


> Clearly you have never tangled w/ DOT enforcement. The nice officer might have a different interpretation of GVWR.


YES, I have been stopped by and PASSED by DOT. They go by axle ratings and tire ratings. So as long as you are not over the axle or tire limitations and your registration is high enough, there is ZERO issues


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## adksnowo (Dec 14, 2005)

I'll admit I know nothing of Pa. and regs./laws there.

I am going by what I know in N.Y.S. If you are over the manufacturer's rated GVWR you are overweight. You can register for whatever weight you want, but here the door jamb total GVWR is considered the capacity of the truck. If you are over the rated GVWR you are taken out of service at a minimum even if you have reserve axle capacity left over.

Your results may vary in different states though. Glad your weight limits are more liberal there. Good luck setting up the truck.


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## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

I have to agree to an extent of the electrical pump systems being “weak”. I have built 2 flat bed dump set ups from scratch. The mass manufactured ones are just bent over sheet metal, at least the ones I have fixed are. Anyway, I put “weak” in quotes because it is the design of the scissor and not the pump. The scissor is designed to be as compact as possible because of the limited landscape we have under our trucks (250’s/350’s).This really messes up they cylinder’s ability to perform. As for the larger trucks as the OP has I would imagine there is more room for a better designed lift hoist cylinder set up. With that said, do some hydraulic homework. You will be surprised what an electric pump unit can do given the correctly designed hoist set up. Remember pressure equals force and volume equals speed. Albeit it does take a larger diameter cylinder to lift a larger mass hence is will require more volume to fill the cylinder at lets say a given pressure of 3500 psi in which electrical systems have a difficult time doing and if they do it is taxing on the truck’s electrical system. Good luck and let us know what you find our have found since this thread is a few months old. Also the next bed I build will be aluminum and I will design my own scissor for more lifting power.
T.J.


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## adksnowo (Dec 14, 2005)

How about a belt driven clutch pump on the engine? I had an F-350 I set up a Deweze clutch pump on a 351W for a flatbed dump.

http://www.equipmentspecialistsinc.com/ecom-catshow/RSDCP.html

http://www.deweze.com/hydraulics/

ESI is a Plowsite sponsor & can probably help you out. I cannot think of the Poster's name (from ESI) off the top of my head but he can probably jump in w/ some advice on this.

I would think parts would be easier & simpler to obtain & install for a belt PTO pump rather than a transmission PTO pump.


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## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

CW Mill equipment company also has PTO clutch pump belt driven kits. They are not cheap though. This will do what you want but now you have to deal with lines, storage tank, belt stuff and control valve which all adds up


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