# Mini loaders, Which One



## snow game

Thinking of purchasing my first Mini Loader. Looking for advice. I like the Wacker wheel loader. It takes all the skid steer attachments and will fit down a 4' walkway. Have a lot of snow accounts in one area that are tight on room, But I am not buying it just for snow.
There are a whole bunch that I like, kind of like a kid in a candy store.
Deere, Cat, Takeuchi

Currently I have:
4 Backhoes Deere and Cat
Cat IT28 Loader
7 skid steers Deere and New Holland
2 old school front end loaders
2 Excavators Hitachi 120 and Deere 50D

Seems like the only thing I'm missing is a mini loader. Are there other makes that will take skid steer attachments?
Let me know what you guys think.


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## Triple L

I have a Cat 906H and love it... Not sure how mini your thinking but a 904 might be fit the bill too


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## leigh

I would love to have one also. Researched quite a bit and the one negative is price!Those things are pound for pound, hp to hp etc high priced for what you get.Money no object I prefer cat or deere. My 2 cents


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## Longae29

we have a gehl 680. its been a very reliable, strong machine. Its nice to have for haul outs and stacking on tight sites where a full size loader would just do more harm than good. the reach is perfect for good full loads of snow on a quad axle. The biggest downside is roadspeed. wish it was faster, but the advantage to a smaller loader is you can trailer it without a semi.


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## Morrissey snow removal

i ran a 903 cat for a while and loved it other than it did not have the best traction


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## Mike S

Are you talking about any kind of loader or just a wheel loader/ articulating? I have a ASV RC30 and I use it for every thing.


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## blowerman

Mike S;1512846 said:


> Are you talking about any kind of loader or just a wheel loader/ articulating? I have a ASV RC30 and I use it for every thing.


I think he's talking wheel loader only...

We rent the mini Deere, Takuchi or even the Case wheel loaders quite a lot in summer and each one is nice in it's own way, all were re-branded machines.
Personally the Baby Volvo's felt the most solid over the years we've used 'em.
Also a re-brand.


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## The Natural Landscape

Seems to me a large skid steer in the same weight class will perform better (being able to do 180 degree turns as opoased to 3 points) for half the price. Most mini loaders don't hold up like a larger machine. If you do go with a mini loader the John Deere 244j might be the best (manufactured by Liebherr).


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## MConst

We've owned a CAT 902 for three seasons now and love it. Great heat, visibility, and ease of use. Easy service intervals and push button quick connect using all our skid steer attachments. We run a 10' pro-tech box on it and never had any problems pushing. 

Its ideal for tight retail lots we service. It was expensive, but consider finding a quality used item. There are quite a few on machinerytrader.com. 

Good Luck!


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## snow game

I'm Thinking of the Wacker Neuson Mini loader, either the WL 30 or 50. I used to have a swinger loader. It was mid 70's machine with a gas engine, but it could go anywhere and never get stuck. I have plenty of big machines, (skid steers Backhoes and loader) looking for something I can go over a lawn with without tearing it up, quick and easy to move. I can also run all my skid steer attachments with this as well. I priced a new bobcat skid and it was $59000.00 The wl 30 is low 40's. I know its two different machines, but I'm not in the market for another skid steer. 
One thing I wasn't crazy about is that forward and reverse is a thumb switch, instead of pedals, I have never seen that before, seems like a potential for trouble.


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## snow game

I think I attached the picture, not sure if it worked or go to 
www.wackerneuson.com


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## R75419

snow game;1515032 said:


> I'm Thinking of the Wacker Neuson Mini loader, either the WL 30 or 50. I used to have a swinger loader. It was mid 70's machine with a gas engine, but it could go anywhere and never get stuck. I have plenty of big machines, (skid steers Backhoes and loader) looking for something I can go over a lawn with without tearing it up, quick and easy to move. I can also run all my skid steer attachments with this as well. I priced a new bobcat skid and it was $59000.00 The wl 30 is low 40's. I know its two different machines, but I'm not in the market for another skid steer.
> One thing I wasn't crazy about is that forward and reverse is a thumb switch, instead of pedals, I have never seen that before, seems like a potential for trouble.


did you end up getting one? We have a telehandler we are thinking of getting rid of and I was looking at these vs ag tractors. 2 totally different machines I know but looking at the good/bad of all ideas.


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## jakewith shovel

I own a Volvo l20. I plow apartment parking lots very happy with it. 
Visiblity is great,
fits everywhere, tight turning radius
i drive to all lots, no trailering involved. its a bit slow but my accounts are within a 2 miles. 
looking to add a salt spreader for next season. 
all things considered its the perfect loader for me, Like any compact loader it was expensive when compare to skids but for my needs its a great machine.
I agree with other posts Cat 906 great machine but $$$ Deere 244 also something to look at, but the best machine is one that YOUR your needs


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## jvm81

I too have looked at the wacker loader. I like it due to size, etc. this will be the next equipment purchase, a mini loader of some sort, brand etc.


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## 4x4Farmer

Just starting to research this topic as well. I test drove a wacker wl30 today and I was impressed with the power it had for a loader that small. It had the little bucket on it and I had the dealership put a big skid bucket on it and it handled it just fine. Dug around in the snow pile for awhile and seemed to have good traction. The dealership said it will push out 10' arctic no problem. I thought it seemed like it would be a bit much but they said they have pushed a 12' arctic with one. Idk..looking into the New Holland w-50 due to its faster speed.


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## snow game

I ended up leasing with option to purchase. Ran it all winter doing walkways and clean ups. Cut down and extra plow we had so it would fit on the walks. We got burried in the blizzard and 3 different school systems hired us to do city walks they couldn't do. Couldn't be happier with it. Just followed through with the purchase and got an extra set of the wide tires for earthwork.


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## jvm81

Snow game I sent you a pm


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## goel

4x4Farmer;1628480 said:


> Just starting to research this topic as well. I test drove a wacker wl30 today and I was impressed with the power it had for a loader that small. It had the little bucket on it and I had the dealership put a big skid bucket on it and it handled it just fine. Dug around in the snow pile for awhile and seemed to have good traction. The dealership said it will push out 10' arctic no problem. I thought it seemed like it would be a bit much but they said they have pushed a 12' arctic with one. Idk..looking into the New Holland w-50 due to its faster speed.


I recently added a used New Holland W50 for this winter. Nice size, excellent visability. Weighs 10k. Putting a 12 ft pusher box on it. It will mainly plow a small mall and load salt. Quick attach bucket, forks, 10 ft snow plow and I had the quick attach put on the pusher box (plus left the bucket attachment so it can be used by other machines also).


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## PALS Landscapin

I had the cat 906 and got rid of it for the deere 244j.Hands down the deere is a better machine by far.


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## ponyboy

I bought a terex tl 80 put a 10 foot pusher could probally Handel a 12 but my guy loves it 
Only been 4 storms but even in ice he had traction 
We used it all summer at shop to load material and u load trucks of stones and tress 
Worth every penny and way different than a skid


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## pancakes55

We had a Volvo l30 but it was too big for most things we needed it for. Too bulky in small spaces or loading out trucks. Before that we had 2x CAT 904Bs. These were great machines. Super visibility and they got beat to hell but still kept going. Only thing that compared to a 904 was a tracked bobcat but for snow removal the 904 is much faster and can do snow loading (small bucket). It can move/bust up piles of snow. And it did super for back dragging parking lots


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## pancakes55

One of the 904s had a powerbroom attachment. It worked great for clearing snow from concrete curbs


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## dirtnazi

I own the volvo l 20 guys like fits every where .


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## R75419

*Wacker 280*

We just leased a Wacker 280 for the winter. 8' ProTech pull back box on it. The dealer said it will work just fine, guess we will find out soon enough. The downside as mentioned before is the road speed but we will use it in a 3 mile circle route so I dont think the 12mph will hurt it too bad. The biggest upside at first blush is the visibility. Night and day difference from a skidder. Will give updates as the season goes.


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## John_DeereGreen

We just leased a Deere 244J on Wednesday. It'll be getting an LD12 Arctic. Hoping it's able to replace a truck and a skid at one site, so those can be moved to others...

19MPH is damn fast, I can say that for sure.


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## 512high

I have heard a lot of good things about the Arctic...let us know if you like it, may purchase one for next season.


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## johndeereguy

I have 25 Arctics, Love them!!!!!


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## thesnowman269

After reading this thread and a few others about plowing condo complexes or small streets of residential accounts. Has anyone ever thought about plowing driveways with a small loader? Seems like it would be much more maneuverable then the agricultural tractors some people are using with back blades. I would imagine a small loader like the ones discussed in this thread with a pull plow and a plow on the front would be the ultimate driveway type rig no? Obviously some sort of fabrication would be in order to mount a pull plow on one..


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## PALS Landscapin

The 244j is a great machine to plow with. I actually likew it better then then bigger loaders. I put a 8611pp on my 244j and it works great. I know alot of people that put the 12ft Arctic on it as well and said they work great. You will have no problem replacing a truck and a skid at the site.


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## 512high

25 Arctic??? Holy Crap!! All on 244J???


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## johndeereguy

No, I have 4 324J and 21 Deere 328E skids


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## 512high

johndeereguy;1886398 said:


> No, I have 4 324J and 21 Deere 328E skids


Any issues with the 324j? Nice machine, was next choice but I was limited in funds etc


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## John_DeereGreen

512high;1885434 said:


> I have heard a lot of good things about the Arctic...let us know if you like it, may purchase one for next season.


We had 4. 2 10 foot on skid steers, and 2 on wheel loaders. We sold the 2 skid models over last winter to switch to Boss 10 foot boxes. We have 2 14 foot HD's on 621B Case loaders. The ONLY reason we switched the skids was the damn poly blocks breaking. After running the Boss boxes last year, the salt savings is worth the poly block cost. We'll be switching back for next winter. We had 10 foot boxes on New Holland L180's which weigh about 7500 pounds. I'm fully confident that the 244J will be able to push a 12 foot box, it's got 4000 pounds on the skids and it articulates vs skidding to turn.

A run of last year's numbers show after we switched, our salt usage went up at least 20%, closer to 30%. With last year's and current pricing, that's between $160 and $220 per salting JUST IN MATERIALS, not including labor, drive time, and other costs, not to mention the environmental impacts of another 2400-3600 pounds of salt being spread. That quickly pays for the dozen or so blocks we go through a year when we average 20 events a season. 3200-4400 bucks a season just in salt right now. Even if we were paying what we should be, around 80 a ton that's between $96 and $145 a salting, or $1920-$2900 a season in savings. Being 90% seasonal accounts and with the state of salt supply, we and in my opinion all contractors, need to get smart about salt.

A little off topic, but it's hard to watch guys that are per push/salting out salting 3 and 4 times in a storm just to bill it out. We salt once or twice when other guys salt 5 and 6 times. Our lots are just as clean as theirs just as quickly. That's excessive and the reason there are shortages and the prices are where they are.


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## 1olddogtwo

Perhaps you should try out the new Arctic limiters.


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## John_DeereGreen

I wondered how long it'd be before olddog showed up 

Aren't the new blocks supposed to be tougher? Seems like the LD12 and the HD14 we bought this year has tougher blocks than the HD14 from last year and the old LD10's. I know the blocks are different from HD to LD. Maybe it's just from the use last winter. I don't know.

One thing is for sure, leaving the Arctic's was a bad idea. Seemed like a good plan, but in practice it wasn't worth it. The Metalpless Liveboxx is the only other thing I'd consider, and we'll get a demo on that before we buy the Arctic's again. Either way, it'll be Arctic or Metalpless next season and from there on.


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## NickSnow&Mow

PALS Landscapin;1677919 said:


> I had the cat 906 and got rid of it for the deere 244j.Hands down the deere is a better machine by far.


 I thought the 906(h) out specd the Deere in almost every way and they were both the same price? In what way is it better? Just interested to know. Thanks


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## 512high

i would ask TripleL, or Pals, I have a 2011 244J, i "think" my fuel tank cap is 21.5gal, cat 906h is 13gal? Cat 906h more horsepower, 244J is 59hp, lifting? not sure.maybe equal? Got ours last spring, snowless winter here so far....


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## edgeair

When I looked at both a 906H and 244J, the 906 was quite a bit better in most respects. HP, Hyd. Flow (attachments), ground speed potential (with speeder transmission). Those were the big ones that caught my eye. I still want one, maybe next year  $100+ grand was a tough pill to look at swallowing


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## edgeair

512high;1917052 said:


> i would ask TripleL, or Pals, I have a 2011 244J, i "think" my fuel tank cap is 21.5gal, cat 906h is 13gal? Cat 906h more horsepower, 244J is 59hp, lifting? not sure.maybe equal? Got ours last spring, snowless winter here so far....


What do you need a backup camera on your loader for? Don't the 244's have great vis?


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## Triple L

John_DeereGreen;1886492 said:


> We had 4. 2 10 foot on skid steers, and 2 on wheel loaders. We sold the 2 skid models over last winter to switch to Boss 10 foot boxes. We have 2 14 foot HD's on 621B Case loaders. The ONLY reason we switched the skids was the damn poly blocks breaking. After running the Boss boxes last year, the salt savings is worth the poly block cost. We'll be switching back for next winter. We had 10 foot boxes on New Holland L180's which weigh about 7500 pounds. I'm fully confident that the 244J will be able to push a 12 foot box, it's got 4000 pounds on the skids and it articulates vs skidding to turn.
> 
> A run of last year's numbers show after we switched, our salt usage went up at least 20%, closer to 30%. With last year's and current pricing, that's between $160 and $220 per salting JUST IN MATERIALS, not including labor, drive time, and other costs, not to mention the environmental impacts of another 2400-3600 pounds of salt being spread. That quickly pays for the dozen or so blocks we go through a year when we average 20 events a season. 3200-4400 bucks a season just in salt right now. Even if we were paying what we should be, around 80 a ton that's between $96 and $145 a salting, or $1920-$2900 a season in savings. Being 90% seasonal accounts and with the state of salt supply, we and in my opinion all contractors, need to get smart about salt.
> 
> A little off topic, but it's hard to watch guys that are per push/salting out salting 3 and 4 times in a storm just to bill it out. We salt once or twice when other guys salt 5 and 6 times. Our lots are just as clean as theirs just as quickly. That's excessive and the reason there are shortages and the prices are where they are.


I highly recommend you try a metal plessis live edge and report back after a snow storm, I'm betting you'll be converting your arctic fleet over very fast


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## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1917171 said:


> I highly recommend you try a metal plessis live edge and report back after a snow storm, I'm betting you'll be converting your arctic fleet over very fast


 What about the HLA razor? Looks like the same idea to me.


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## edgeair

NickSnow&Mow;1917173 said:


> What about the HLA razor? Looks like the same idea to me.


Not exactly. The razor looks like the arctic where the whole moldboard moves up and down. The Metalpless has a movable cutting edge only.


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## NickSnow&Mow

edgeair;1917179 said:


> Not exactly. The razor looks like the arctic where the whole moldboard moves up and down. The Metalpless has a movable cutting edge only.


 Oh ok. I would think the full mold board moving would be better, no?


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## Triple L

Until it freezes and gets stuck half way up, 10x the moving parts, bushings and grease points... live edge is soo simple it's actually stupid nobody came up with it sooner


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## edgeair

NickSnow&Mow;1917183 said:


> Oh ok. I would think the full mold board moving would be better, no?


I haven't owned either so someone else might be better to answer that, but my first impressions on that is it appears there are more moving parts to go wrong with the moving mouldboard design.

Edit: What he said ^


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## 512high

Back up camera was given to me, so I said what the heck, I will mount in the 244J, and to answer your question, ya has great visibility, small event for tonite..3-5".....then sunday a high of 50f...great, Tuesday, artic air..where is my freaking blizzard!


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## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1917196 said:


> Until it freezes and gets stuck half way up, 10x the moving parts, bushings and grease points... live edge is soo simple it's actually stupid nobody came up with it sooner


Ok ya I see. I'm sure someone did think of it just didn't do anything lol. My dad honestly thought of making our own version of the pronovost PXPL before we even knew it existed.


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## PALS Landscapin

The reason why I like the 244j better is the visibility. I also think the machine is a lot more driver friendly. I know the specs for the 906 might be better but I feel in all aspects the 244 is better for lifting, turning, digging into a pile. I love how the 244 articulates, and also the back wheels turn as well making turning a breeze while plowing. And as speed goes I think the 244 is faster.


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## 512high

I agree with what you said , the specs on the 244j for speed are 18.9mph, however , I have the 400/70/r20 option on mine and swear I hit 21mph on level ground, I "think" 906h is 12.5mph, however, with optional travel gear will road at 21.5 mph, both are great machines


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## NickSnow&Mow

512high;1918161 said:


> I agree with what you said , the specs on the 244j for speed are 18.9mph, however , I have the 400/70/r20 option on mine and swear I hit 21mph on level ground, I "think" 906h is 12.5mph, however, with optional travel gear will road at 21.5 mph, both are great machines


 Thanks, I'm not gonna buy a wheel loader soon but would like to someday. Just curious. Is the 18.9mph travel gear an option on the 244j or do they all have it.


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## 512high

244j all have it...


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## NickSnow&Mow

PALS Landscapin;1918112 said:


> The reason why I like the 244j better is the visibility. I also think the machine is a lot more driver friendly. I know the specs for the 906 might be better but I feel in all aspects the 244 is better for lifting, turning, digging into a pile. I love how the 244 articulates, and also the back wheels turn as well making turning a breeze while plowing. And as speed goes I think the 244 is faster.


 Ok thanks for the answer. Have any of you looked at deeres 64hp model up from the 244j I think it's the 304k or 324k. Looks more evenly specd with the 906h


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## PALS Landscapin

Yes but I like the 244 just because it's a lighter machine and easy to tow to my paver jobs. Just my opinion.


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## 512high

PALS Landscapin;1918249 said:


> Yes but I like the 244 just because it's a lighter machine and easy to tow to my paver jobs. Just my opinion.


Hey pals not sure if I asked before..,what year is your 244j? And have u had any issues? Or things to keep an eye on? Hours?..ty


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## Golden Boy

Anyone check out the yanmar loader?


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## PALS Landscapin

Its a 2012 I bought it brand new. No issues so far. In the summer months I use that machine a lot more for my paver jobs then my 333D Deere skid. Not to heavy and doesn't tear up the customers yards. I would love to post pics of my equipment but I have a Mac computer and cant seem to figure it out.


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## 512high

PALS Landscapin;1918726 said:


> Its a 2012 I bought it brand new. No issues so far. In the summer months I use that machine a lot more for my paver jobs then my 333D Deere skid. Not to heavy and doesn't tear up the customers yards. I would love to post pics of my equipment but I have a Mac computer and cant seem to figure it out.


Thanks for the reply..i have no clue how to upload pic from a mac as well.!


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## John_DeereGreen

We're going to demo a Liveboxx before we buy anything. More than likely that's what we'll end up with.


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## jvm81

I bought a new Wacker WL 30. I bought an erkison (spelling ) blower for it which is 52 inches. Had to modify the plate to fite. Now I need to hook up electrical from blower to machine. Then I need to figure out how to control the deflector chute on the blower. Love the machine but I need an idea how to keep door from always swinging wide open and locking on lock plate....thinking like small cyclinder we have on our skids or something. I went with the wacker due to size, agility and my needs. Snow pgk, air, just missing a radio and phone holder placement.


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## 512high

jvm81;1922793 said:


> I bought a new Wacker WL 30. I bought an erkison (spelling ) blower for it which is 52 inches. Had to modify the plate to fite. Now I need to hook up electrical from blower to machine. Then I need to figure out how to control the deflector chute on the blower. Love the machine but I need an idea how to keep door from always swinging wide open and locking on lock plate....thinking like small cyclinder we have on our skids or something. I went with the wacker due to size, agility and my needs. Snow pgk, air, just missing a radio and phone holder placement.


Do you have a faceplate you can remove to install a radio?


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## Greenmtboy

Sort article on the JD 244K and 324K.
http://www.equipmentworld.com/john-deeres-244k-and-324k-compact-wheel-loaders-deliver-tight-turning-radius-increased-hydraulic-flow/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_content=01-09-2015&utm_campaign=EW&ust_id=c29f0202c9

Go here to compare equipment specs. Use the table of contents to navigate or go to page 95 to compare wheel loaders. 
http://read.dmtmag.com/i/393943


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## John_DeereGreen

John_DeereGreen;1884446 said:


> We just leased a Deere 244J on Wednesday. It'll be getting an LD12 Arctic. Hoping it's able to replace a truck and a skid at one site, so those can be moved to others...
> 
> 19MPH is damn fast, I can say that for sure.


Figured I'd come in and update this after a decent storm. Loader is working great. It replaced what we had hoped it would, both a truck and a skid, and is still almost 45 minutes faster. Piles look nicer, lot is cleaner, and operator is much happier in the loader. If we didn't need skids for landscaping a couple mini loaders would be replacing our NH skids for next year.


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## 512high

Yup, i "think" the 244k is identical to the "244j" in many ways it looks the same, in fact i think the interior pics will be the same..the tier 4 , has an increase in HP, however, i have heard some issues with the epa standard on tier 4 motors, fuel issues? again no experience with alot of heavy duty equipment, just my two cents


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## xbl003x

CAT 906H or 908H
you always get what u pay for


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## Greenmtboy

What are you guys running for tires on your compact loaders, stock tires, is traction an issue? I did a search for a "snow tire" in the common sizes but found nothing.


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## 512high

im running stock michelin xmcl 400/70/r20 stock, however, we just use for moving piles,loading etc. not using pusher or plow


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## John_DeereGreen

Our Deere has the stock tires, I think they're Dunlop's. If you go to Deere's page and click on the 244K, the main picture for the loader that comes up is what ours has.

No issues pushing a 12 foot Arctic on 600 foot runs.


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## john1066

We have 2 906h s that we drive around town to take care of our properties. On my way! with a 10 foot pusher and one with a 10 foot power angle plow and both share a skidsteer snowblower


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## NickSnow&Mow

john1066;1960318 said:


> We have 2 906h s that we drive around town to take care of our properties. On my way! with a 10 foot pusher and one with a 10 foot power angle plow and both share a skidsteer snowblower


these mini loaders come standard with skidseteer quick attach right? Beautiful setup how well does the one handle the pusher?


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## john1066

Yes skidsteer plates and I hear it handles the pusher well I haven't seen it myself.


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## r.renterprises

I had the factory tires recaped on my 244j with snow tread like the graders get. Thing is amazing moving snow.


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## Greenmtboy

NickSnow&Mow;1960354 said:


> these mini loaders come standard with skidseteer quick attach right? Beautiful setup how well does the one handle the pusher?


Not so sure they come standard but they are a option.



r.renterprises;1960409 said:


> I had the factory tires recaped on my 244j with snow tread like the graders get. Thing is amazing moving snow.


What is it for a tire? Pic's?
I did see this the other day on machinery trade, it was on a JD 244J north of the boarder in Boisbriand, Quebec, Canada. The casing reads Continental but its possible it maybe a recap?


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## NickSnow&Mow

Greenboy do you happen to make youtube vids? your skidsteer looks fimiliar


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## Greenmtboy

NickSnow&Mow;1961043 said:


> Greenboy do you happen to make youtube vids? your skidsteer looks fimiliar


Yes, when I can. Here is the latest one. http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=1956617#post1956617


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## NickSnow&Mow

Greenmtboy;1961357 said:


> Yes, when I can. Here is the latest one. http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=1956617#post1956617


Sweet I subscribed! I'm guessing you like the metal pless more than the HLA?


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## Greenmtboy

NickSnow&Mow;1961401 said:


> Sweet I subscribed! I'm guessing you like the metal pless more than the HLA?


Cool! 
Yes & no, I am considering replacing the HLA. Still waiting to hear back from MP.......


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## r.renterprises

Greenmtboy;1960771 said:


> Not so sure they come standard but they are a option.
> 
> What is it for a tire? Pic's?
> I did see this the other day on machinery trade, it was on a JD 244J north of the boarder in Boisbriand, Quebec, Canada. The casing reads Continental but its possible it maybe a recap?


those are exactly what i got.


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## Greenmtboy

r.renterprises;1961464 said:


> those are exactly what i got.


Continental? What model tire?


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## r.renterprises

Had pomps send them in to be recapped. Think they went to Canada. Thanks for metric tires.


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## Greenmtboy

r.renterprises;1961490 said:


> Had pomps send them in to be recapped. Think they went to Canada. Thanks for metric tires.


That wouldn't surprise me. It seems they have a better tire/cap selection than us in the states.


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## r.renterprises

My cat 914g mitchelin sno+ recaps were readily available. Had them in a week.


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## Greenmtboy

r.renterprises;1961521 said:


> My cat 914g mitchelin sno+ recaps were readily available. Had them in a week.


Michelin offers a snoplus cap? Is it possible your tires were caped with similar tread pattern?


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## r.renterprises

Im sure its just a similar cap. Works great and has stood up well the last 5 years. Also at half the price it was a no brainer for my budget


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