# Burnt Up Clutch



## w6bauer (Jan 24, 2012)

One of my drivers recently complained about my 90 chevy dually transmission. Got a blister on his shifter hand from plowing for 18 hours. I drove the truck and it felt to me like the damn clutch was out of it. Its the muncie four speed granny trans. I got it up on the lift and found a birds nest of clutch material in bellhousing. 

After much torch use, broken bolts and knuckles, I got the old four speed down out of the way and found that the flywheel side of clutch plate was tore up. Pressure plate side barely wore but was glazed. 

Is this operator error burning up the clutch? I just bought the truck with the 810 Blizzard from a guy a month ago for $3500. Clutch felt fine. He said it was just over a year old. 

What the heck is going on here? Is my guy riding the clutch, is this normal or should I expect to be doing a clutch on this old pig every year? 

Thanks


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

w6bauer;1565311 said:


> One of my drivers recently complained about my 90 chevy dually transmission. Got a blister on his shifter hand from plowing for 18 hours. I drove the truck and it felt to me like the damn clutch was out of it. Its the muncie four speed granny trans. I got it up on the lift and found a birds nest of clutch material in bellhousing.
> 
> After much torch use, broken bolts and knuckles, I got the old four speed down out of the way and found that the flywheel side of clutch plate was tore up. Pressure plate side barely wore but was glazed.
> 
> ...


2x a year if that guy keeps driving it.


You could give him the benefit of the doubt tho. Replace clutch, throw-out bearing and grind the flywheel, all the good stuff. 
Test drive it yourself to make sure all is good. 
Next time he takes it out as soon as he is back at the shop inspect. If there is another "birds nest" you will know one way or the other.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

I say he rode it is he experienced plower?? Stick driver??


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## hatefulmechanic (Dec 27, 2012)

If the truck was used and it lasted through an 18hr shift, it did good.

Pop a new one in it, do it right, and see what happens. If it goes out after another 18hr shift, driver needs to be changed.


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## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

Replace the clutch & the driver both!


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

I say he probably trying push snow in the higher gears If he getting blisters from the shifter Then that tells you he shifting way to much 
My longest time in my truck was 32 hrs straight never got blisters from the stick but did rub my finger tip raw pushing the buttons on the plow controller
I push Snow 20 yrs with a manual out of 30 yrs 60% time never leave 1st gear But my truck has 3.73 gears 

I sit down with him and ask how he is driving the truck You might learn what you are seeking a answer to your problem


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

If he's trying to plow slowly in high range, he may be riding the clutch. If shifting is done correctly, it won't cause significant wear to the clutch. It MUST be fully engaged when pushing snow.


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## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

Got photos of the carnage?

How's the flywheel condition after interfacing with the nasty leftover part of the clutch?


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

I had an 88' baby dump with a 4spd, he shouldn't have to use low gear. I always used 2nd which is actually 1st.


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## goel (Nov 23, 2010)

You just bought the truck, how sure are you about the clutch only being 1 year old? 

And how was it used in that 11 months before you got the truck? That is, if it was replaced a year ago. 

Was this the first time the truck really got used hard since you purchased it?


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## w6bauer (Jan 24, 2012)

I got new clutch put in. I put a new flywheel, pilot bushing, pressure plate and throwout bearing in while I was at it. Old flywheel was torched and had some cracks in surface. Was not worth my time to resurface. I put an upgraded pressure plate and clutch plate in from perfection flywheel and bearings/bushings from perfection as well. Also changed all gear lube in gearbox and tranny fluid in transfer case while i was down there. 

When i first got truck the front diff was leaking, i took it out stripped it down and replaced all bearings and seals. I took that chance to look in the bellhousing and there was no birds nest then.

Previous owner did use truck to plow last year but if his season was anything like mine i think i did about 18hrs total then i dont see how the clutch could go so fast. Not to say that he didnt ride clutch and glaze it, or maybe didnt break it in before heading straight out to plow.

Driver said he plowed in 4hi using only 1st gear(not L) and reverse. Said the blister came from gearbox being so difficult to go from first into reverse. 

Not very experienced plowing but pretty decent with a stick. Its probably a combo of driver and previous clutch condition. I dont think anything was done to flywheel or pressure plate/throwout or pilot bearing last time clutch was done. Hell it didnt look like the input shaft splined recieved any grease either. Clutch disc could have been binding there. 

Anyhow, got it done and ive been driving it for the 500mi break in period i prefer and it shifts great. Upgraded pressure plate increased clutch pedal effort but she definitely grabs nicely. 

Ive got some pics of the carnage i will post when im back to my computer. Havent figured out how to do it on my phone yet. 

Just for a general idea about everyone else pushing with a stick, how often are you guys under there changing clutches?

Thanks guys love the site.


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## Chiputz (Dec 28, 2010)

I plow with a stick. I fried one clutch in my 1/2 ton chevy when we got 18" of wet heavy slop and a buddy called me to help plow his business lot out. Other than that, no issues. It's real easy to ride the clutch when you're plowing if you aren't used to it. Driving a stick and plowing with a stick are 2 different animals in my opinion. Maybe ride along with the guy to one or two jobs and see what is happening, might be something as simple as telling him to get his foot off the clutch once the clutch is engaged.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

I been plowing for 6yrs in stick. Old tk had 136,000 on it plowed for 4yrs with it. Had the clutch done b/c of noise. The trans shop said clutch didn't look bad at all. Looked normal for 136. All I ever use is granny and first, reverse


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Figure it this way; at least he didn't fry an AT.
$x10


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## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

w6bauer;1566284 said:


> Hell it didnt look like the input shaft splined recieved any grease either. Clutch disc could have been binding there.


That's what I was thinking. That would explain why the flywheel-side of the clutch and the flywheel were wrecked but the pressure plate was ok.

Might want to consider using L and/or 4LO for plowing. It wouldn't help with the failure you had but it would reduce _normal_ wear on the clutch.



jasonv;1566309 said:


> Figure it this way; at least he didn't fry an AT.
> $x10


Word.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

w6bauer;1566284 said:


> Just for a general idea about everyone else pushing with a stick, how often are you guys under there changing clutches?
> 
> Thanks guys love the site.


My first truck was a 88 F250 5 speed and was around 80k miles pressure plate broke the Clutch plate look good
Well my 2nd truck and one I still drive is 99 F350 w/5speed I bought used it was a 1 owner and he push snow with it 
It had 90k on the clutch it was factory So I thought I would check it out It was still good but I installed a new one a HD Luke Clutch, truck has 140k on it now
I run 9.6 Vplow w/wings
Last owner ran a 7.6 on the first 90k of plowing had a easy life


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## sweetk30 (Sep 3, 2006)

4 low 2 or 3rd worked best for me for years in my old 4 speed chevy 1ton with 8ft and 9ft fisher as per snow conditions.

also check for broken welds on the shifter piviot ball to shaft. makes a lot of play / extra throw in shifter. mine was broken at welds . i fixed it and was a lot better. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/sm465/index.html

if he got blister he is not a stick driver / or just dont get it. only time i ever got blisters was as a kid on my first atv . road the hell out of it and wore my hands down bad.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Antlerart06;1566385 said:


> My first truck was a 88 F250 5 speed and was around 80k miles pressure plate broke the Clutch plate look good
> Well my 2nd truck and one I still drive is 99 F350 w/5speed I bought used it was a 1 owner and he push snow with it
> It had 90k on the clutch it was factory So I thought I would check it out It was still good but I installed a new one a HD Luke Clutch, truck has 140k on it now
> I run 9.6 Vplow w/wings
> Last owner ran a 7.6 on the first 90k of plowing had a easy life


Use the force Luke!!!

I think you mean LUK. Those are the crappy made-in-mexico clutches. They have very poor quality control.


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## ceptorman (Nov 30, 2011)

You could take a ride with him to see how he drives.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

jasonv;1572336 said:


> Use the force Luke!!!
> 
> I think you mean LUK. Those are the crappy made-in-mexico clutches. They have very poor quality control.


Might be your thinking but I never had problem with them
I ran them in everything from full size trucks to midsize truck Even in a Mud truck never had one fail
Sorry spelling error on LUK


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## 02powerstroke (Nov 7, 2006)

exactly why I got stuck in our 1-ton thats a stick. i dont trust my employees to drive it....


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Yea trusting people that say they can and REALLY can are 2 different things.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Antlerart06;1572468 said:


> Might be your thinking but I never had problem with them
> I ran them in everything from full size trucks to midsize truck Even in a Mud truck never had one fail
> Sorry spelling error on LUK


Toyota has a contract with LUK as a second supplier for clutches. The first supplier being AISIN, which is controlled by Toyota, and is the manufacturer of clutches and transmissions for many brands of vehicles. In fact, my heep YJ has an AISIN transmission. For my specific vehicle model (Tacoma 2TR-FE), there are about a dozen part revisions for the LUK clutches, and a dozen TSB's. The TSB's basically all read, "if you find a LUK stamp on the [friction disk / pressure plate], swap them all out for AISIN, if not, warranty does not apply.". I had the misfortune of getting a LUK in mine, which started slipping at about 15,000 km (less than 10,000 miles). Swapped out under warranty. The dealership measured the friction disk and found "no significant wear". In other words, it was as you would expect for 15,000 km -- practically new and just broken in. The bloody pressure plate didn't exert enough force to drive the vehicle after the clutch broke in (got smooth). So mine fell under the "slip" TSB. Other TSB's on the LUK clutches involve chattering, bent fingers, and exploding. I sure wouldn't trust a LUK.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

02powerstroke;1572557 said:


> exactly why I got stuck in our 1-ton thats a stick. i dont trust my employees to drive it....


Problem with AT vs MT. If you know how to work it, MT is better in longevity, output, control, and maintenance. If you're a dipsh*t, MT can disintegrate within hours.

The big problem, however, is that a dipsh*t can blow an AT just as easily. See what happens when they start using reverse as brakes for forward, and forward as brakes for reverse.

BOOM.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

jasonv;1572587 said:


> Toyota has a contract with LUK as a second supplier for clutches. The first supplier being AISIN, which is controlled by Toyota, and is the manufacturer of clutches and transmissions for many brands of vehicles. In fact, my heep YJ has an AISIN transmission. For my specific vehicle model (Tacoma 2TR-FE), there are about a dozen part revisions for the LUK clutches, and a dozen TSB's. The TSB's basically all read, "if you find a LUK stamp on the [friction disk / pressure plate], swap them all out for AISIN, if not, warranty does not apply.". I had the misfortune of getting a LUK in mine, which started slipping at about 15,000 km (less than 10,000 miles). Swapped out under warranty. The dealership measured the friction disk and found "no significant wear". In other words, it was as you would expect for 15,000 km -- practically new and just broken in. The bloody pressure plate didn't exert enough force to drive the vehicle after the clutch broke in (got smooth). So mine fell under the "slip" TSB. Other TSB's on the LUK clutches involve chattering, bent fingers, and exploding. I sure wouldn't trust a LUK.


I see Sorry for you problems Maybe you dont know how to drive a Clutch I dont know 
What year of Tacoma you have


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Antlerart06;1572841 said:


> I see Sorry for you problems Maybe you dont know how to drive a Clutch I dont know
> What year of Tacoma you have


Do you know what a TSB is??? It means that the manufacturer is aware of a SYSTEMIC problem.
And the fact that you even bothered to write a response THAT BRAIN DEAD means that you surely didn't read what you responded to.


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## 02powerstroke (Nov 7, 2006)

dieselss;1572578 said:


> Yea trusting people that say they can and REALLY can are 2 different things.


 exactly



jasonv;1572591 said:


> Problem with AT vs MT. If you know how to work it, MT is better in longevity, output, control, and maintenance. If you're a dipsh*t, MT can disintegrate within hours.
> 
> The big problem, however, is that a dipsh*t can blow an AT just as easily. See what happens when they start using reverse as brakes for forward, and forward as brakes for reverse.
> 
> BOOM.


I agree but its easier to get them to shift while stopped with a auto than get them to Not over rev it starting out, not ride the clutch and wait for it to stop spinning before firing it in reverse with the manual


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Well ill semi argue that 2nd point 02. How many guys won't wait to totally stop before they go into reverse??


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## 02powerstroke (Nov 7, 2006)

dieselss;1573659 said:


> Well ill semi argue that 2nd point 02. How many guys won't wait to totally stop before they go into reverse??


my guys are good about it cause if the equipment doesn't work neither do they. Our F-350 has 44k original miles and is on its 3 or 4th? clutch....

Ive noticed that my 02s trans is much more tolerant to rolling into drive than my 2011 f-250 it slams into drive if your still rolling alittle bit in reverse


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

jasonv;1573561 said:


> Do you know what a TSB is??? It means that the manufacturer is aware of a SYSTEMIC problem.
> And the fact that you even bothered to write a response THAT BRAIN DEAD means that you surely didn't read what you responded to.


Wow!!! I thought means Technical Service Bulletin But I guess not 
:laughing:


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

02powerstroke;1573630 said:


> exactly
> 
> I agree but its easier to get them to shift while stopped with a auto than get them to Not over rev it starting out, not ride the clutch and wait for it to stop spinning before firing it in reverse with the manual


I know my Manual in my 99 F350 you have to be stop to go in reverse
But my 88 manual you could put in reverse and still be rolling forward
My daily driver I drive a Kia Sportage(hunting rig) you put in Reverse with out stopping and I catch my self trying do same with my F350 but it grinds the gears I know better not to but its habit


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

jasonv;1573561 said:


> Do you know what a TSB is??? It means that the manufacturer is aware of a SYSTEMIC problem.
> And the fact that you even bothered to write a response THAT BRAIN DEAD means that you surely didn't read what you responded to.





Antlerart06;1573877 said:


> Wow!!! I thought means Technical Service Bulletin But I guess not
> :laughing:


Yeah, it means Technical Service Bulletin, at least in the context jason was applying. But sometimes jason needs to hear something a few times and still not believe it.


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## w6bauer (Jan 24, 2012)

OK fellas. Another clutch is gone. Had a 12" snow and truck lasted 6 hours. 

After I installed clutch I personally drove truck 1000 miles to ensure proper break in. Had a snow event shortly after. Had problem with shifter. Guy couldn't get reverse. Low and first only. Dropped tranny again and pulled top cover. Reverse detent pin retainer broke and pin came out which held shifter up. $2.50 fix. Also flipped paddle on bottom of shift lever as it was showing wear on one side. Slapped everything back together. Shifter better/smoother than it ever had. So the next snow came in on Sunday night and sure enough six hrs after we all went out I got the call. Truck won't shift or come out of gear. Started in gear and I drove it back to shop. Got plow off and truck on hoist this morning. 

Pulled inspection plug by slave cylinder. Birds nest of clutch inside. good god man are you serious. Really dont want to pull trans again. 3 times in less than two months. Come on. Im stuck driving the 05 ford diesel because it likes to stall all the time. I need a guy who wont burn up my damn clutches! Either that or a bulletproof clutch. 

I guess now im just hoping new flywheel and pressure plate arent tore up too. Ive got too many other vehicles to fix right now and I think were done with snow for the season I'm pulling truck behind shop to sit. What a damn crock.


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## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

I did not read all the posts. I drove a 5 speed for 3 seasons, there are tricks to it. Search _Plowing with a manual _on the gray line above. It will tell you the tricks to saving a clutch. You can't slip against the load. You have to be moving when you meet the load. Lift the plow and drop after the clutch is out and truck is moving. I had an old timer teach me to drive a manual plowing. Someone here burned up a brand new truck's clutch the first time out!


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

All the time and money invested you may be further ahead swapping that trans out for an automatic. Not sure if the truck is worth it or not since I didn't read most of the thread but it may save you some coin in the long run.


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## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

Gotta agree with that...as much as I like manual, if you're not the driver then it might be time to choose a slushbox instead.


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

Might be time to change out the driver.


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## RiverCreek (Jan 7, 2010)

I've got 220,000 miles on the clutch in my 96 Ram 3500 NV4500 5 speed. 310,000 total miles on the truck. After 220,000 miles, it still shifts like new. Been pushing around an 8 1/2' Plow and carrying an overloaded 2.5 yd spreader every year since 2000, and towing a gooseneck during summer months. If you've got a burnt clutch after 18 hours, the clutch wasn't installed or adjusted right, or you've got the most abusive driver I've ever heard of. My vote is for bad installation or adjustment. Just my $.02.. Good luck with the new clutch, hopefully it'll last a lot longer this time.


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

Wow. Way to resurrect an almost three year old thread.


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