# Not allowed to plow at night ??? City wide



## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Farmington Hills, Michigan has an ordnance ( law ) that there be no plowing after dark till morning day break. Whats up with this ?? Anyone else hear of this kind of law ???

I was helping a friend during our last large event where we caught 12 inches or so. He was in a bind and asked for some help. A 5 acre, high dollar shopping plaza next to a 10 story high dollar apartment building. 

I was plowing and saw the police pull in about 3 am, not doing a drive through but watching us and then leave. My buddy said yeah they have been doing this the last few events. Someone from the apartments has been complaining about the noise. 

Well the following weekend a light 1.5 - 2 fell he was plowing. Police again showed and shut him down. Citing that he is not allowed to plow from sunset to sunrise. Stating that the city has a ordnance no night time plowing. Now while I was there I saw several other plowers in other lots. 

Anyone ever have to deal with this ???


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Hopefully they also passed an ordinance prohibiting Mother Nature from dropping snow after dark

Don't worry, I'm sure there are whole teams of ambulance chasers just wringing their hands in anticipation so it'll probably be short lived


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

I went online and could not find anything ??


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

On a Call said:


> Farmington Hills, Michigan has an ordnance ( law ) that there be no plowing after dark till morning day break. Whats up with this ?? Anyone else hear of this kind of law ???
> 
> I was helping a friend during our last large event where we caught 12 inches or so. He was in a bind and asked for some help. A 5 acre, high dollar shopping plaza next to a 10 story high dollar apartment building.
> 
> ...


So if you can't plow it how do they expect emergency vehicles to get in. I guess the plaza will have to burn down so someone can get there precious sleep.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

You nailed it...and seeing how at day break some stores are open and cars are in and out.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

On a Call said:


> You nailed it...and seeing how at day break some stores are open and cars are in and out.


Somebody should call the FD and tell them there fire lanes will not be open. Ya there is a ordnance around here to. All fire lanes need to be accessible at all times.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

On a Call said:


> Now while I was there I saw several other plowers in other lots.


Translation: The cops know the law is absurd, but some jerk neighbor called the police on your friend, not on the other plowers, and their hands were tied.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

cwren2472 said:


> Translation: The cops know the law is absurd, but some jerk neighbor called the police on your friend, not on the other plowers, and their hands were tied.


Personally I think the cop was a :terribletowel:. Someone would have to post a link for me to buy that there's a ordnance for sleeping reasons. Yes in the summer months they can make you wait till 7:30 AM to start so people are not bothered with noise. Mother nature dumps snow when she wants to and has no regards to people sleeping.


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## fhafer (Jan 31, 2014)

We have a noise ordinance here from 10:00 PM to 6:00 AM, but I've never been stopped for plowing and we go around the clock. In residential zones lawn equipment is specifically called out, but nothing in commercial zone areas.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

FredG said:


> Personally I think the cop was a :terribletowel:. Someone would have to post a link for me to buy that there's a ordnance for sleeping reasons. Yes in the summer months they can make you wait till 7:30 AM to start so people are not bothered with noise. Mother nature dumps snow when she wants to and has no regards to people sleeping.


I disagree. I don't doubt that the law exists for a second.

The fact that a city council would pass a law that's completely impracticable and unsafe, just because people want to complain about f--king everything, does not surprise me even a little bit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rns-out-thats-a-crime/?utm_term=.42fefb53f899


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

You might want to get with @Defcon5 on this. I believe I remember him saying he got ticketed for thumping his four 12's to some Drake in his salt truck and getting pulled over for a noise ordernance violation....


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I would call the city and ask for s copy of the noise ordanices. My guess is the pressure came from somewhere to shut it down. I have had visits from the pd before plowing. One account in milford the pd showed up 5 storms in a row. The Sargent clearly let me know who was complaining. I solved that problem next event I buried there car left on our property. They had 8’ of snow all around so it could leave next time I had it towed.

All the towns here have noise hours but snow removal equipment and operations are exempt. Town of Naugatuck has a zero use of small engine powered equipment on Sunday’s yes you can’t even mow your lawn. I was doing s leaf cleanup on Sunday up came mister policeman got s written warning go figure


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

We have a noise ordinance also, but as stated snow removal equipment is exempt. But must have the factory noise muffler, something like that. Call the cops next storm on whoever is plowing the apt complex. Let them come out in the morning to a mess.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

fhafer said:


> We have a noise ordinance here from 10:00 PM to 6:00 AM, but I've never been stopped for plowing and we go around the clock. In residential zones lawn equipment is specifically called out, but nothing in commercial zone areas.


Yes we have a noise ordinance to, Referring to Partying, Loud Music, Running non emergency equipment. Snow and Ice would not pertain to this because moving snow can not be scheduled to your everyday business hours.

In a perfect world we work 7 AM to 3 PM. Let a water main break in the City right of way at 2 AM and some cop tells them they can't work to repair it. Let the Mayor here about it, Somebody from the police force would be apologizing for there actions. See if there worried about sleep when it's time to get ready for work and can't shower etc. This is just stupid.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

cwren2472 said:


> I disagree. I don't doubt that the law exists for a second.
> 
> The fact that a city council would pass a law that's completely impracticable and unsafe, just because people want to complain about f--king everything, does not surprise me even a little bit.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rns-out-thats-a-crime/?utm_term=.42fefb53f899


Read farther down.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

cwren2472 said:


> Translation: The cops know the law is absurd, but some jerk neighbor called the police on your friend, not on the other plowers, and their hands were tied.


Exactly...So maybe its time for a free fireworks show at 2 am  and high tail it outta there before anyone shows up.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Go to town hall, get a copy of the ordinance. Then the business owner should go to the next town meeting. And raise a stink.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

fireside said:


> I would call the city and ask for s copy of the noise ordanices. My guess is the pressure came from somewhere to shut it down. I have had visits from the pd before plowing. One account in milford the pd showed up 5 storms in a row. The Sargent clearly let me know who was complaining. I solved that problem next event I buried there car left on our property. They had 8' of snow all around so it could leave next time I had it towed.
> 
> All the towns here have noise hours but snow removal equipment and operations are exempt. Town of Naugatuck has a zero use of small engine powered equipment on Sunday's yes you can't even mow your lawn. I was doing s leaf cleanup on Sunday up came mister policeman got s written warning go figure


Interesting you mention about accidental buried cars . We think this same person and their mate are parking on the centers lot. Out of the way...but none the less parking there. So....this last storm found them buried. Perhaps this is the reason the follow storm he was kicked out? Might be the PD'd chief secretary ?? 

Of course I have no clue how 5 feet of snow got pushed around the cars ?? Drifting would be my guess.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Randall Ave said:


> We have a noise ordinance also, but as stated snow removal equipment is exempt. But must have the factory noise muffler, something like that. Call the cops next storm on whoever is plowing the apt complex. Let them come out in the morning to a mess.


good thinking ~~


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

FredG said:


> Yes we have a noise ordinance to, Referring to Partying, Loud Music, Running non emergency equipment. Snow and Ice would not pertain to this because moving snow can not be scheduled to your everyday business hours.
> 
> In a perfect world we work 7 AM to 3 PM. Let a water main break in the City right of way at 2 AM and some cop tells them they can't work to repair it. Let the Mayor here about it, Somebody from the police force would be apologizing for there actions. See if there worried about sleep when it's time to get ready for work and can't shower etc. This is just stupid.


No doubt about it...stupid is as stupid does. We were there maybe 2 hours more or less...likely less.

I sort of could understand if we were using our old western blades from 20 years ago. Some of you remember them...cables ran the valves. Well ours would drop so hard they could cut off your toes. Bam they would drop...we did a factory a friend lived across the street. He said we would wake him every storm....BANG...SCRAPE...BANG SCRAPE...ALL 5 ACRES


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

On a Call said:


> Exactly...So maybe its time for a free fireworks show at 2 am  and high tail it outta there before anyone shows up.


NAH...that would be disturbing to those being nice and realizing we are just doing what needs to be done.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

On a Call said:


> I was helping a friend during our last large event where we caught 12 inches or so.


That storm sure fizzled.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Is it an ordinance regarding snow removal vs plowing?

East Grand Rapids allows plowing but not removal. We have to wait to blow the snow oof a ramp until 7 or 8. Even though we are using the same Bobcat that we plow it with.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

On a Call said:


> No doubt about it...stupid is as stupid does. We were there maybe 2 hours more or less...likely less.
> 
> I sort of could understand if we were using our old western blades from 20 years ago. Some of you remember them...cables ran the valves. Well ours would drop so hard they could cut off your toes. Bam they would drop...we did a factory a friend lived across the street. He said we would wake him every storm....BANG...SCRAPE...BANG SCRAPE...ALL 5 ACRES


I got some fire lanes behind a factory that the drifts are to the roof sometimes. With emergency exit doors back there. This is a 24 hr factory. If the lane and the doors are not clear of snow nobody can enter the building. I have seen the fire chief checking it out now and then. Plenty of homes around there.

The ordinance states this fire lane will be accessible at all times with nothing referring to noise. You have lives and property at stake, Why would any reasonable smart person agree with this makes me .


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So 5 minutes with the Google...

Sec. 17-101. - Noise.

(a)

General requirements. No operation or activity shall be carried on that causes or creates measurable noise levels that are unreasonably loud or that unreasonably interfere with the peace and comfort of others, or that exceed the maximum noise level limits prescribed in Table A below as measured at any point on property adjacent or in close proximity to the lot or parcel on which the operation or activity is located.

(b)

Method and units of measurement. The measuring equipment and measurement procedures shall conform to the latest American National Standards Institute (ANSI) specifications. The sound measuring equipment shall be properly calibrated before and after the measurements.

Because sound waves having the same decibel (Db) level "sound" louder or softer to the human ear depending upon the frequency of the sound wave in cycles-per-second (that is, depending on whether the pitch of the sound is high or low) an A-weighted filter constructed in accordance with ANSI specifications shall be used on any sound level meter used to take measurements required in this section. All measurements below are expressed in Db(A) to reflect the use of the A-weighted filter.

(c)

Table of maximum noise levels. Except as otherwise provided in this section, noise levels shall not exceed the limits set forth in the following Table A:

TABLE A 
MAXIMUM PERMITTED NOISE LEVELS

Use Time Sound Level 
(A-Weighted) 
Decibels 
Db(A)
Residential (see uses included in RA, RP, RC, SP, MH districts) 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. 60

7:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. 55

10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. 50
Business/Office (see uses included in OS, B, ES, P districts) 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. 65

7:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. 50
Industrial (see uses included in IRO, LI-1 districts), where all adjacent properties are used for industrial/business purposes Anytime 70
Industrial, where any adjacent properties are used for residential purposes Anytime 60

(d)

Background noise. Where existing background noise exceeds the maximum permitted levels specified in Table A, the noise caused or created by a specific operation or activity may exceed the levels specified in the table, provided that the sound level on property adjacent or in close proximity to the lot or parcel on which the operation or activity is located does not exceed the background noise level. For purposes of this subsection, background noise shall mean noise being produced by permitted uses conducted in a legally-accepted manner from all sources other than those occurring on the lot or parcel on which the operation or activity is located. Background noise levels shall be determined by measurement at substantially the same time and location as the noise levels caused or created by the complained-of operation or activity.

(e)

Intermittent or other unreasonable sounds. Intermittent sounds or sounds characterized by pure tones might be a source of complaints, even though the measured sound level does not exceed the permitted level in Table A. Such sounds shall be prohibited when found to be unreasonably loud or to unreasonably interfere with the peace and comfort of others. In making such determination, the following shall be considered:

(1)

The proximity of the sound to sleeping facilities;

(2)

The nature of the use from which the sound emanates and the area where it is received or perceived;

(3)

The time (day or night) the sound occurs; and

(4)

The duration of the sound.

(f)

Special exception. An application for a special exception from the provisions of this section may be submitted to the zoning board of appeals, sitting as an administrative review board for purposes of this provision. The owner or operator of equipment on the property shall submit a statement regarding the effect of noise from the equipment on the overall noise level in the area. The statement shall also include a study of background noise levels, predicted levels of noise measured at the boundary line due to the proposed operation, and justification for the special exception. If it appears to the zoning board of appeals, in the course of its review of the applicant's application and statement, that the expertise of a sound engineer or other expert shall be necessary in order to review the application, the zoning board of appeals shall be authorized to obtain a reasonable escrow for consulting fees from the applicant and retain such expert for such purposes. Upon review of the request for a special exception, the zoning board of appeals may grant a special exception where such relief would be within the spirit and intent of this ordinance, would not adversely affect the public health, safety, and welfare, and would not be materially injurious to surrounding properties and improvements. The zoning board of appeals may impose conditions of operation in granting a special exception.

(g)

_*Exemptions. Noise resulting from the following activities shall be exempt from the maximum permitted sound levels provided such activity occurs in a legally-accepted manner: *_

(1)

Construction activity (see section 18-164);

(2)

_*Performance of emergency work, including snow removal; *_

(3)

Warning devices necessary for public safety, such as police, fire, and ambulance sirens, tornado and civil defense warning devices, and train horns;

(4)

Lawn care and yard maintenance that occurs between 8:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m.;

(5)

Outdoor school and playground activities when conducted in accordance with the manner in which such spaces are generally used, including, but not limited to, school athletic and school entertainment events;

(6)

Bells or chimes of churches or other places of worship;

(7)

The unamplified human voice; and

(8)

Public works maintenance, repair, or improvement projects being conducted by or on behalf of public agencies.

(Ord. No. C-10-2004, § 1, 8-23-04)


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So either your buddy is full of it, the cop is full of it, or this is just another "story".


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I'm on the township planning board. People have complained about snow removal. The other members start going on about it. And I just tell them, it's exempt from the noise ordinance. If only they would read something first before opening their un informed mouths.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

I know of at least one Milwaukee burb that had an ordinance that you couldn't run a blower before like 7am. This was because of their noise ordinance. There was a bunch of controversy over this because some residents leave home before 7am and get home after dark, not to mention they need to get out of their drive. They also ran the risk of getting fined for not having their walks clear.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

EWSplow said:


> This was because of their noise ordinance. There was a bunch of controversy over this because some residents leave home before 7am and get home after dark, not to mention they need to get out of their drive. .


Damn people that work for a living ruining my beauty sleep. Who do I complain to about that?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I just wish I could be at home in bed at 6-7am when it's snowing, so I could be awakend by the sounds of snow plowing and removal...I probably wouldn't be complaining about being awakend.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Its always interesting to read these ordinances as there is always a reach around if someone didn't read as far as the snow exemption. The next time a cop goes to ticket you. Ask for a copy of the noise reading test and calibration of testing equipment. Make him work ,if you can't. Another good tip is have a dash cam, (even if it doesn't work) and fiddle with it while he talks to you. You'd be surprised how nice they become. Most of the police out here are very nice, there are busy looking for hoodlums not the working man.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> Its always interesting to read these ordinances as there is always a reach around if someone didn't read as far as the snow exemption. The next time a cop goes to ticket you. Ask for a copy of the noise reading test and calibration of testing equipment. Make him work ,if you can't. Another good tip is have a dash cam, (even if it doesn't work) and fiddle with it while he talks to you. You'd be surprised how nice they become. Most of the police out here are very nice, there are busy looking for hoodlums not the working man.


I was thinking of the noise reading test. Could be why they were sitting in the lot...taking measurements. Then start with the calibration questions. Then have the ordinance in hand.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Randall Ave said:


> We have a noise ordinance also, but as stated snow removal equipment is exempt. But must have the factory noise muffler, something like that. Call the cops next storm on whoever is plowing the apt complex. Let them come out in the morning to a mess.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That storm sure fizzled.


Actually it blossomed, Toledo was to catch the brunt of it...but it moved more north. I plowed Toledo for about 22 hours and drove north of Detroit. Dropped off a worker in Detoilet which not one street was plowed but they sure salted. City wide every street had what I call Brown sugar and about 8 inches of it. I live north of D and here we had a foot too. Toledo caught about 7-8 nothing too bad. As I pulled up to the house ready to lay down got a call from a paving company friend who asked if I was still out...perfect timing...just pulled up. So went out and worked another 4 .

West of town in Farmington they most likely had about 8ish however only one of his lots were plowed.

All this during the " SALT SHORTAGE "  What is Amazing...no one ran out. As I stated...there is no shortage just price hikes.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So either your buddy is full of it, the cop is full of it, or this is just another "story".


Either way you proved my point anyways. Thumbs Up


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

I know the bar down the street from me doesn't dump there empty bottles into their dumpster at the end of the night, they wait until morning. I'm pretty sure there's no ordinance, they just do it out of respect for ,the neighbors. 
This is Milwaukee though. The cops are too busy chasing car thieves and shots fired to screw around with such ridiculous things as snow blowers.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I just wish I could be at home in bed at 6-7am when it's snowing, so I could be awakend by the sounds of snow plowing and removal...I probably wouldn't be complaining about being awakend.


Ya maybe they will come out with a law where we can only plow snow 9 to 5 LMAO.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So either your buddy is full of it, the cop is full of it, or this is just another "story".


As I mentioned some where above I too did a search and found nothing stopping him. However if you are friends or work with the PD you have some pull and strings can be pulled. Even though no tickets or warning were issued he was told to leave. Of this I am fairly certain he was not exaggerating or lying.

He did go back and finished the next day which was on a Sunday. So he had a mostly open lot.

However on Monday he contacted the owners and explained to them what happened and that unless they pull their strings he will follow what he was told to do. And charge extra for the time needed to work around cars. I have not heard any more as it is not my account.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

However on Monday he contacted the owners and explained to them what happened and that unless they pull their strings he will follow what he was told to do. And charge extra for the time needed to work around cars. I have not heard any more as it is not my account.[/QUOTE]

I wish I could use this excuse.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I'd like to see him leave again, even though snow plowing is exempt from the ordinance. Pretty sure if I was the property owner/manager, he'd be terminated immediately. 

When you have the ordinance showing you are legally permitted to do what you're doing, unless the cops arrest you, there is no reason to stop.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Someone mentioned most cops are nice and I agree. We are only doing our job and trying to help out others. I at times will plow streets opening them up and they have seen and spoken to me. All I have heard was...thank you.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

EWSplow said:


> I know the bar down the street from me doesn't dump there empty bottles into their dumpster at the end of the night, they wait until morning. I'm pretty sure there's no ordinance, they just do it out of respect for ,the neighbors.
> This is Milwaukee though. The cops are too busy chasing car thieves and shots fired to screw around with such ridiculous things as snow blowers.


I have dealt with people telling me I can't use a right of way that runs in there lawn to utility's behind there house and cry about noise. We just tell them to call the City and stay away from us. They don't understand it you try to explain it to them anyways. They all think they own right of ways.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I'd like to see him leave again, even though snow plowing is exempt from the ordinance. Pretty sure if I was the property owner/manager, he'd be terminated immediately.
> 
> When you have the ordinance showing you are legally permitted to do what you're doing, unless the cops arrest you, there is no reason to stop.


He just put the ball into their court and told them to handle it. He was stopped by the PD so there would be a record, at least should be. However perhaps officer John got a call from his wife saying honey I cannot sleep and if you want any in the morning...go tell them to stop.

That would be all on him. But his job would be on the line too.

And...this I am certain is a well paying city.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

On a Call said:


> As I mentioned some where above I too did a search and found nothing stopping him. However if you are friends or work with the PD you have some pull and strings can be pulled. Even though no tickets or warning were issued he was told to leave. Of this I am fairly certain he was not exaggerating or lying.
> 
> He did go back and finished the next day which was on a Sunday. So he had a mostly open lot.
> 
> However on Monday he contacted the owners and explained to them what happened and that unless they pull their strings he will follow what he was told to do. And charge extra for the time needed to work around cars. I have not heard any more as it is not my account.


I would not be muscled around by that Cop, He is negligent and does not know the law. What a surprise.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

FredG said:


> I have dealt with people telling me I can't use a right of way that runs in there lawn to utility's behind there house and cry about noise. We just tell them to call the City and stay away from us. They don't understand it you try to explain it to them anyways. They all think they own right of ways.


Yeppers...this is common.

I too have had that situation.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

FredG said:


> I would not be muscled around by that Cop, He is negligent and does not know the law. What a surprise.


Yes, I agree.

However if he was told by his superior  " do as told " then it is on him.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

On a Call said:


> He just put the ball into their court and told them to handle it. He was stopped by the PD so there would be a record, at least should be. However perhaps officer John got a call from his wife saying honey I cannot sleep and if you want any in the morning...go tell them to stop.
> 
> That would be all on him. But his job would be on the line too.
> 
> And...this I am certain is a well paying city.


You can't put the ball in the clients hand, Your buddy is contracted to make sure that lot is clean, That's just what I would tell that cop. I'm contracted to keep this property free of snow and ice this is what I intend to do. If the cop had a pee brain he would run with his tale between his legs. If he is stupid enough to arrest you, you got some of the best free advertising you could get and a small payoff to boot if you wanted to be that way.

The Link Mark posted should be enough, I'm saying I been out there long enough to know that cop is wrong. Just wisdom from being here many years. Ya I'm a legend in my own mind today LMAO.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

On a Call said:


> Yes, I agree.
> 
> However if he was told by his superior  " do as told " then it is on him.


Well yes if he's a employee and was told by his boss to leave. So this changes a little his boss is must be a :terribletowel:. I hope I don't know him, Hate it when I have to call someone I know a :terribletowel:. What you going to tell the PO? The cop chased me off your lot was not cleared - safe. The contractor should of handled that immediately, A call to the sarge on duty would of solved that quickly. The Sarge would of told him to beat it and let the guy do his job.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So either your buddy is full of it, the cop is full of it, *or this is just another "story"*.


I think you might be onto something, for once...........


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

FredG said:


> I got some fire lanes behind a factory that the drifts are to the roof sometimes. With emergency exit doors back there. This is a 24 hr factory. If the lane and the doors are not clear of snow nobody can enter the building. I have seen the fire chief checking it out now and then. Plenty of homes around there.
> 
> The ordinance states this fire lane will be accessible at all times with nothing referring to noise. You have lives and property at stake, Why would any reasonable smart person agree with this makes me .


I plow a very similar factory, with firelanes adjoining the backyard of a bunch of houses. We had a neighbor come unglued once when we first started plowing there, he insisted we were causing more water issues with his already problematic basement by plowing the firelanes. Apparently, windrowing snow melts faster than non-disturbed snowfall in his head.

I've always been mindful when I plow the firelanes, I try to do them at either end of my route that will be least likely to cause aggravation. Also, throttle down, and turn off the jagoff lights........


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

jomama45 said:


> I plow a very similar factory, with firelanes adjoining the backyard of a bunch of houses. We had a neighbor come unglued once when we first started plowing there, he insisted we were causing more water issues with his already problematic basement by plowing the firelanes. Apparently, windrowing snow melts faster than non-disturbed snowfall in his head.
> 
> I've always been mindful when I plow the firelanes, I try to do them at either end of my route that will be least likely to cause aggravation. Also, throttle down, and turn off the jagoff lights........


Exactly if his basement is flooding he's got issues with under drain etc. Not the snow piles.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

With the acceptation of a junk exhaust on your truck and a screaming Detroit in a loader, Jagoff lights, I don't think much about residents around me. Normally I just tell them to call somebody that can help them with there issue because I can't and drive away.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

FredG said:


> You can't put the ball in the clients hand, Your buddy is contracted to make sure that lot is clean, That's just what I would tell that cop. I'm contracted to keep this property free of snow and ice this is what I intend to do. If the cop had a pee brain he would run with his tale between his legs. If he is stupid enough to arrest you, you got some of the best free advertising you could get and a small payoff to boot if you wanted to be that way.
> 
> The Link Mark posted should be enough, I'm saying I been out there long enough to know that cop is wrong. Just wisdom from being here many years. Ya I'm a legend in my own mind today LMAO.


Good point I will tell him not to stop...no events since that time


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

jomama45 said:


> I think you might be onto something, for once...........


Other than I know it is a fact...


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

FredG said:


> Well yes if he's a employee and was told by his boss to leave. So this changes a little his boss is must be a :terribletowel:. I hope I don't know him, Hate it when I have to call someone I know a :terribletowel:. What you going to tell the PO? The cop chased me off your lot was not cleared - safe. The contractor should of handled that immediately, A call to the sarge on duty would of solved that quickly. The Sarge would of told him to beat it and let the guy do his job.


He contacted the owners as soon as morning hit


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

FredG said:


> Exactly if his basement is flooding he's got issues with under drain etc. Not the snow piles.


He's obviously in need of a water heater plow.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

jomama45 said:


> I plow a very similar factory, with firelanes adjoining the backyard of a bunch of houses. We had a neighbor come unglued once when we first started plowing there, he insisted we were causing more water issues with his already problematic basement by plowing the firelanes. Apparently, windrowing snow melts faster than non-disturbed snowfall in his head.
> 
> I've always been mindful when I plow the firelanes, I try to do them at either end of my route that will be least likely to cause aggravation. Also, throttle down, and turn off the jagoff lights........


I could write a book about my dealings with people like that.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jomama45 said:


> I plow a very similar factory, with firelanes adjoining the backyard of a bunch of houses. We had a neighbor come unglued once when we first started plowing there, he insisted we were causing more water issues with his already problematic basement by plowing the firelanes. Apparently, windrowing snow melts faster than non-disturbed snowfall in his head.
> 
> I've always been mindful when I plow the firelanes, I try to do them at either end of my route that will be least likely to cause aggravation. Also, throttle down, and turn off the jagoff lights........


Turn oof the jagoof lights???

Blasphemy!!!


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

My insurance company told me to turn on your roof beacon anytime you are on private property , even if you are only checking the lot .


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## wishfull (Nov 22, 2017)

Unfortunately there are too many laws out there for every cop to know or understand them all and there is always some dick wads on council or whatever ready to add some more. Usually the stupider the better. It makes them look important and smart and they hope it will impress all the peanuts that voted them in. We get homeowners ragging on us quite often and we run into the odd cop that is trying to earn his stripes but we try our best to know whats right so we can tell them to just go away. Keep on top of the bylaws if you can. Ignorance of the law is no excuse someone once said. Our town prohibits us from parking our trailers on the street in front of job sites. Bylaw officer found out that that ordinance was meant only for trailer storage. He had to rescind the ticket. Happy plowing everyone.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SHAWZER said:


> My insurance company told me to turn on your roof beacon anytime you are on private property , even if you are only checking the lot .


Roads to here between sites during a storm City law. Not just driving around with your plow on dry roads.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

I know we dont get nearly the snow u guys up north do but thank god we are basically lawless during a storm.. if u have a plow or salter you can pretty much do whatever you want while snow is falling​


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You might want to get with @Defcon5 on this. I believe I remember him saying he got ticketed for thumping his four 12's to some Drake in his salt truck and getting pulled over for a noise ordernance violation....


No tickets.....But got chased out of the same Home Depot twice by the Po-po....The cops claim they had complaints...Closest houses were at least a thousand yards away...I was half finished salting and Barney Fife said I had to leave now...I riled the officer up a bit...I asked for his name and badge number due to the fact I was not done with the lot...He asked why do you need that?...I said I need to put it in my snow log in case there is a slip and fall..


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> No tickets.....But got chased out of the same Home Depot twice by the Po-po....The cops claim they had complaints...Closest houses were at least a thousand yards away...I was half finished salting and Barney Fife said I had to leave now...I riled the officer up a bit...I asked for his name and badge number due to the fact I was not done with the lot...He asked why do you need that?...I said I need to put it in my snow log in case there is a slip and fall..


Yeah but you were ticketed for being oversized even though your underbody was angled.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yeah but you were ticketed for being oversized even though your underbody was angled.


That was another time...I was pulled over by the county weigh man...He brings out the tape measure to measure the Belly Blade...It was 11 foot which I already told him it was...Got a ticket for that one...I guess I should have not held the one end of the tape for him


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

We've run into those issues sweeping but never plowing or salting.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

We have a noise ordinance too. Town cops told me I couldn't shoot after 11 PM. I can plow whenever though. 

My wife is a nurse, Fire Fighter and EMT for our towns FD/Ambulance. I told her about this town having this ordinance, she looked at me like I was crazy (she does that regularly). First thing she said was what if there is a fire or accident?

NYH1.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Around these parts, with a yellow strobe, you can go the wrong way on one way streets when there's snow. been there, done that and passed a cop who was going the right way. 


iceyman said:


> I know we dont get nearly the snow u guys up north do but thank god we are basically lawless during a storm.. if u have a plow or salter you can pretty much do whatever you want while snow is falling​


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

EWSplow said:


> Around these parts, with a yellow strobe, you can go the wrong way on one way streets when there's snow. been there, done that and passed a cop who was going the right way.


All I'll say if big brother is watching, is I might or might not run more stop signs and red lights, and drive the wrong way down one way streets/alleys in a single night of plowing, than many people would dream of doing in a year.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

DeVries said:


> We've run into those issues sweeping but never plowing or salting.


I wasn't aware brooms were that loud...


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

EWSplow said:


> Around these parts, with a yellow strobe, you can go the wrong way on one way streets when there's snow. been there, done that and passed a cop who was going the right way.


Hahaha yep its like th wild west. No stop signs or red lights.. just drive


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Shhhhhh....


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

We were riding in to New Ulm, Mn a few years ago, signs on the side of the highway said, " No plowing after dark" it was a hilly road with switchbacks. 
I don't know who the signs were meant for.
Do the guys who plow for the highway dept. really need signs to tell them where they can't plow?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

jonniesmooth said:


> We were riding in to New Ulm, Mn a few years ago, signs on the side of the highway said, " No plowing after dark" it was a hilly road with switchbacks.
> I don't know who the signs were meant for.
> Do the guys who plow for the highway dept. really need signs to tell them where they can't plow?


Have you met the low tender guys...?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

I remember some guy on this site told a nice little story about driving their loader through a rough part of town and going through red lights, and then they started seeing more cops in that area. It was a nice little story and had a happily ever after.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Mr.Markus said:


> Have you met the low tender guys...?


No,I have no idea who they are.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I remember some guy on this site told a nice little story about driving their loader through a rough part of town and going through red lights, and then they started seeing more cops in that area. It was a nice little story and had a happily ever after.


I had some friends who went to Texas fishing, they had a chest freezer and a generator in the back of the boat, it was a big boat with aluminum platforms front and rear to bow fish from.
Middle of the night, guy driving misses the by pass in KC, friend wakes up and looks around, asks driver "what are you doing?
Driver says, "red light"
Friend replys, " I'd be glad to see a cop right now, run the light".
As they ran the light my friend said that the largest black woman he had ever seen in his life was standing on the corner and she lifted her shirt and flashed them.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

jonniesmooth said:


> I had some friends who went to Texas fishing, they had a chest freezer and a generator in the back of the boat, it was a big boat with aluminum platforms front and rear to bow fish from.
> Middle of the night, guy driving misses the by pass in KC, friend wakes up and looks around, asks driver "what are you doing?
> Driver says, "red light"
> Friend replys, " I'd be glad to see a cop right now, run the light".
> As they ran the light my friend said that the largest black woman he had ever seen in his life was standing on the corner and she lifted her shirt and flashed them.


...her badge???!


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Mr.Markus said:


> ...her badge???!


Nope, headlights.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Defcon 5 said:


> That was another time...I was pulled over by the county weigh man...He brings out the tape measure to measure the Belly Blade...It was 11 foot which I already told him it was...Got a ticket for that one...I guess I should have not held the one end of the tape for him


Or you should have angled the blade more before he pulled you over.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

EWSplow said:


> Around these parts, with a yellow strobe, you can go the wrong way on one way streets when there's snow. been there, done that and passed a cop who was going the right way.


Well around these parts...well in Toledo anyhow.... I got a ticket for running a red light at 3 am, yellow light was on. I thought about fighting...but, hey I did run a red light.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

jonniesmooth said:


> I had some friends who went to Texas fishing, they had a chest freezer and a generator in the back of the boat, it was a big boat with aluminum platforms front and rear to bow fish from.
> Middle of the night, guy driving misses the by pass in KC, friend wakes up and looks around, asks driver "what are you doing?
> Driver says, "red light"
> Friend replys, " I'd be glad to see a cop right now, run the light".
> As they ran the light my friend said that the largest black woman he had ever seen in his life was standing on the corner and she lifted her shirt and flashed them.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

On a Call said:


> Well around these parts...well in Toledo anyhow.... I got a ticket for running a red light at 3 am, yellow light was on. I thought about fighting...but, hey I did run a red light.


Right turn, U turn, right turn, provided the U turn is legal in that area, or right turn, U turn, straight.
Do that often on the scooter when it doesn't trigger the sensor and on more travelled roads while plowing


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I ran a stop sign at aboot 0300 this past winter...one other vehicle coming on the cross street aboot a 1/4 mile away. I slowed down to aroond 15. Watched in the rearview as the other one approached, sure enough, it was a cop. He slowed down to aboot 10 as he went through.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

If it's snowing here, at night you can't find a cop.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Randall Ave said:


> If it's snowing here, at night you can't find a cop.


Yea hibernation time.. although my crap police force did buy a pickup truck with a plow on it.. we are less than a square mile .. they like spending our money


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

I have a friend who's a police Sargent and he said most cops wouldn't stop a car for not stopping at a red light if there's a lot of snow on the roads and no one going through a green. Best to keep things moving. 
He said he rolls through all the time with his crown vic with chains.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

EWSplow said:


> I have a friend who's a police Sargent and he said most cops wouldn't stop a car for not stopping at a red light if there's a lot of snow on the roads and no one going through a green. Best to keep things moving.
> He said he rolls through all the time with his crown vic with chains.


Some people that drive small car they loose there momentum could be a slow process getting going again. I agree with the Sarg, Usually 2 Am there will be nobody out accept for cops, Ambulances and other fools plowing snow lol.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

I cant believe they will stop a snow plow guy and not a half drunken or sober biker leaving the bar with straight pipes. Or better yet a group of them. Not to get down on bikes as I had a Harley still have my endorsement but they make much more noise than a snow plow.


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## zlssefi (Dec 29, 2011)

Its interesting seeing both ends of the spectrum in different parts of the country. I had a spare loader for years, just in case of breakdowns etc. After watching it sit too long, a friend asked me to put it in a condo complex for him to push off the roads and mains between all the car parking. I told him he was crazy, but he insisted it would be fine. Were going on year 5 with a 1986 terex with a 4-71t detroit. And yes, we normally start the complex at 0200............


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

zlssefi said:


> Its interesting seeing both ends of the spectrum in different parts of the country. I had a spare loader for years, just in case of breakdowns etc. After watching it sit too long, a friend asked me to put it in a condo complex for him to push off the roads and mains between all the car parking. I told him he was crazy, but he insisted it would be fine. Were going on year 5 with a 1986 terex with a 4-71t detroit. And yes, we normally start the complex at 0200............


I guess some people in certain area's are more reasonable. 4-71 will make some noise. Also didn't know they were turbo. My Detroit has a super charger blower.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

FredG said:


> I guess some people in certain area's are more reasonable. 4-71 will make some noise. Also didn't know they were turbo. My Detroit has a super charger blower.


All 2-stroke Detroit's have a blower. Some just have a turbo as well.

Did you ever get yours fixed?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Aerospace Eng said:


> All 2-stroke Detroit's have a blower. Some just have a turbo as well.
> 
> Did you ever get yours fixed?


Still working on it, Going to be a slow till the weather changes. I will have it done over the summer, I hope lol.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I cant believe they will stop a snow plow guy and not a half drunken or sober biker leaving the bar with straight pipes. Or better yet a group of them. Not to get down on bikes as I had a Harley still have my endorsement but they make much more noise than a snow plow.


I'm over the Harley thing, Lot of years of fun tho. My buddy has one and it's about as old as he is. If your around when he fires it up and not aware of it you jump out of your pants.

Sounds like a straight pipe old JD tractor.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Aerospace Eng said:


> All 2-stroke Detroit's have a blower. Some just have a turbo as well.
> 
> Did you ever get yours fixed?


True, but a 4-71T. I would like to see a picture of that. I just pulled up a picture of one. That's gotta be one screaming SOB.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I cant believe they will stop a snow plow guy and not a half drunken or sober biker leaving the bar with straight pipes. Or better yet a group of them. Not to get down on bikes as I had a Harley still have my endorsement but they make much more noise than a snow plow.


The real problem I have with loud bikes is the lack of respect.

2 am and they stop at the sign, we live on a 4 way stop. Durring the summer not only is the chug chug chug enough to wake my wife the blam blam blam as he guns the thing wakes me. I have often wanted to shoot some of least respectful ones, yes shoot.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

On a Call said:


> The real problem I have with loud bikes is the lack of respect.
> 
> 2 am and they stop at the sign, we live on a 4 way stop. Durring the summer not only is the chug chug chug enough to wake my wife the blam blam blam as he guns the thing wakes me. I have often wanted to shoot some of least respectful ones, yes shoot.


Plus in the winter you should have your windows closed which should make it harder to hear. In the summer the windows are open or your outside enjoying the weather.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

https://www.jsonline.com/story/comm...ns-loud-snow-plowing-hales-corners/331283002/
I guess it happens around here too.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

My response to anyone who complained about the noise would be that our insurance requires us to work at night because there are less idiots on the road.

And I prefer working at night for this exact reason (except sweeping because that's when All the weirdos are at Wal-Mart).


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

They used to have the lights here flash red overnight for the lighter traffic. It was great, it sucks now...


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

cwren2472 said:


> Translation: The cops know the law is absurd, but some jerk neighbor called the police on your friend, not on the other plowers, and their hands were tied.


We have a noise ordinance that's similar 
I think it's zoning dependent 
It's seems to only affect churches that tend to be in residential areas.

It's decibel related 
Are you running trucks or equipment with back up alarms because those are usually pretty loud

A gas or modern diesel truck isn't very loud and the act of plowing isn't either

I'm having a hard time believing there's a law that says no night PLOWING
What does the city do about roads?

I'm guessing it's an actual noise ordinance and it's your back up alarms?


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

tpendagast said:


> We have a noise ordinance that's similar
> I think it's zoning dependent
> It's seems to only affect churches that tend to be in residential areas.
> 
> ...


You guys would be in trouble if you couldnt plow at night with not much daylight in the winter.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

tpendagast said:


> We have a noise ordinance that's similar
> I think it's zoning dependent
> It's seems to only affect churches that tend to be in residential areas.
> 
> ...


Newer diesel trucks with newer plows. 
I think when the plow falls the bang or the noise as it scrapes


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

On a Call said:


> Newer diesel trucks with newer plows.
> I think when the plow falls the bang or the noise as it scrapes


Very hard to measure that decibel level because it's not sustained.

Most noise ordinances mention some quantifiable level of decibels as breaking code, otherwise a simple gasoline engine of say the postman or delivery van would break the rules.
Temporary noise doesn't seem to break the rules either (the garbage truck at 5 am)

I don't know what this noise ordinance of yours says 
But my guess is it doesn't actually say "no snow plowing" or "no work"
It says no noise and xyz decibels 
And it's being misinterpreted by someone somehow 
Cops are super famous for this kind of ignorance

Find whatever it is they're enforcing and read it.
Has anyone you know been cited for breaking the ordinance yet?
The ticket almost always has the code violated written on ticket, which helps you find it to read it.

All it takes is some lawyer or town council member to not have his lot plowed of the place he owns to get this law "clarified" 
I can't imagine it being around in its current level of enforcement long.

Do you service any legal forms or properties owned by lawyers you know of?
Usually just bringing something like this to their attention , innocently , like can you help me understand this law because this is happening and causing that to take place.
Once they realize it will effect them, and how and poof.
No more problems for you. 
Lawyers are funny that way.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

LapeerLandscape said:


> You guys would be in trouble if you couldnt plow at night with not much daylight in the winter.


Well "night" in those ordinances isn't usually defined in terms of day light, per se. it's usialky between the hours of x and y; to allow people to sleep. 
If we all slept dusk til dawn around here , nothing would ever get done!


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Double liked 
Well written



tpendagast said:


> Very hard to measure that decibel level because it's not sustained.
> 
> Most noise ordinances mention some quantifiable level of decibels as breaking code, otherwise a simple gasoline engine of say the postman or delivery van would break the rules.
> Temporary noise doesn't seem to break the rules either (the garbage truck at 5 am)
> ...


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

tpendagast said:


> All it takes is some lawyer or town council member to not have his lot plowed of the place he owns to get this law "clarified"
> I can't imagine it being around in its current level of enforcement long.
> 
> Do you service any legal forms or properties owned by lawyers you know of?
> ...


Hit the funny bone and it is noticed


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

Some people are idiots. Complain about the noise from plowing the parking lot at 2am so they stop. Go to leave for work and the car is buried in snow and the parking lot is a quagmire and they can't get out. They call and complain that the parking lot isn't plowed! Complete idiots.


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