# fair wages....for sidewalk workers.



## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Okay I am paying 14.00 hour from time we leave till we return. 

Would you consider this a fair wage ??


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

On a Call said:


> Okay I am paying 14.00 hour from time we leave till we return.
> 
> Would you consider this a fair wage ??


No, you should be paying them double time after 4 hours, and triple time and a half if they work more than 6 hours a month... oh, and give them some shares of your company too... anything less you are not a good person to work for...


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

And what if they bring their own shovel ??


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

On a Call said:


> And what if they bring their own shovel ??


That is hazard pay then!

In all seriousness, I think that is a very fair wage.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Philbilly2 said:


> That is hazard pay then!
> 
> In all seriousness, I think that is a very fair wage.


Thanks  \

Hazard pay hmmm...okay what if I pay them to buy a shovel and think about using it ? Sort of mental exercise is straight time good ?

I thought that too was a fair wage. However I have one that wants to be paid by the job...with him riding with us.  Not really sure what to tell him ??


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

On a Call said:


> Thanks  \
> 
> Hazard pay hmmm...okay what if I pay them to buy a shovel and think about using it ? Sort of mental exercise is straight time good ?
> 
> I thought that too was a fair wage. However I have one that wants to be paid by the job...with him riding with us.  Not really sure what to tell him ??


How about "no"?


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## Walleye Hunter (Aug 13, 2017)

On a Call said:


> Thanks  \
> 
> Hazard pay hmmm...okay what if I pay them to buy a shovel and think about using it ? Sort of mental exercise is straight time good ?
> 
> I thought that too was a fair wage. However I have one that wants to be paid by the job...with him riding with us.  Not really sure what to tell him ??


Tell him to go ahead and put his bids in.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

On a Call said:


> Thanks  \
> 
> Hazard pay hmmm...okay what if I pay them to buy a shovel and think about using it ? Sort of mental exercise is straight time good ?
> 
> I thought that too was a fair wage. However I have one that wants to be paid by the job...with him riding with us.  Not really sure what to tell him ??


20$ an hour here in jersey... some crap


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

14 seems fair, maybe a little low, 
We’re giving guys 15-20 an hour

And if they get a parking ticket we pay it :hammerhead:


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

On a Call said:


> Okay I am paying 14.00 hour from time we leave till we return.
> 
> Would you consider this a fair wage ??


Yes it's fair, Pretty good deal they leave there vehicles at your shop and get paid to and from the job. They don't like it give them the address and time where you want them to be out of the way of trucks and equipment.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Its a race to pick up the amigos at the deli during a storm.. bunch of companies vying for the laborers. We use about 25 a storm


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

On a Call said:


> Thanks  \
> 
> Hazard pay hmmm...okay what if I pay them to buy a shovel and think about using it ? Sort of mental exercise is straight time good ?
> 
> I thought that too was a fair wage. However I have one that wants to be paid by the job...with him riding with us.  Not really sure what to tell him ??


Tell him he has to have a business name, GL, WC. and his own tools and a way to each job. If he has 1/2 brain he will see it your way.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Doesn't seem out of line to me.


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## Walleye Hunter (Aug 13, 2017)

If you think you're close but not sure toss them a few extra $$$ and/or a meal now and then when they make you proud, it goes a long way with morale.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Walleye Hunter said:


> If you think you're close but not sure toss them a few extra $$$ and/or a meal now and then when they make you proud, it goes a long way with morale.


Yea we have a decent storm coming up and it will be cold. We will buy a meal and numerous coffees just to keep em out there


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Do I think that's a fair wage for a job that requires no skill, no education, and no experience? Yes, I feel it's more than fair.

Problem is, I can't keep guys. Pretty much our whole are pays high teens. I start new guys at $17, and they go up every year. Still can't keep guys. I buy coffee, meals (depending on when and how long we're out), and give bonuses when they finish before the estimated time.

I feel like I've tried it all, but still couldn't keep anyone. They would rather not make a dime than come work. It was to the point that I gave up on sidewalks this year, and only plow


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> Do I think that's a fair wage for a job that requires no skill, no education, and no experience? Yes, I feel it's more than fair.
> 
> Problem is, I can't keep guys. Pretty much our whole are pays high teens. I start new guys at $17, and they go up every year. Still can't keep guys. I buy coffee, meals (depending on when and how long we're out), and give bonuses when they finish before the estimated time.
> 
> I feel like I've tried it all, but still couldn't keep anyone. They would rather not make a dime than come work. It was to the point that I gave up on sidewalks this year, and only plow


Find a sub to do all walks


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> Do I think that's a fair wage for a job that requires no skill, no education, and no experience? Yes, I feel it's more than fair.
> 
> Problem is, I can't keep guys. Pretty much our whole are pays high teens. I start new guys at $17, and they go up every year. Still can't keep guys. I buy coffee, meals (depending on when and how long we're out), and give bonuses when they finish before the estimated time.
> 
> I feel like I've tried it all, but still couldn't keep anyone. They would rather not make a dime than come work. It was to the point that I gave up on sidewalks this year, and only plow


I know that someone on this forum does not agree, but I would try a Coke machine with beer in it at your shop... it helps me retain my employees...


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I always say the sidewalk crews are the unsung heroes of the events.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

I've only got 1 shoveler. I paid him 16.00 per hour last year with a 5 hour guarantee (because I only had about 3 hours worth of sidewalks). Jose (his real name is Edgar) drove 1 hour an 15 minutes to meet me at the shop. He never missed an event. At the end of the year I gave him a 500.00 bonus. This year I bumped him up to 20.00. I buy meals and all drinks while he's working. I know that probably sounds stupid to pay a shoveler that much, but I don't care, it would be worth 30.00 an hour for me to not have to do it. And he's reliable as hell, shows up every time when he's supposed to. I don't know what the pay scale is for walks where the rest of the guys live, but for me, even at 20.00 per hour, I make PLENTY off of him. Sidewalks pay pretty well where I'm at, but I just don't want to get my ass out of the truck to do them. I wouldn't want to have so many walks to do that I needed 10 or more shovlers, because that sounds like it would be a staffing nightmare to me, but good old Edgar does me right, and this year he'll get another 500.00 bonus, if not more.


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## YooperDog (Dec 28, 2017)

On a Call said:


> Thanks  \
> 
> Hazard pay hmmm...okay what if I pay them to buy a shovel and think about using it ? Sort of mental exercise is straight time good ?
> 
> I thought that too was a fair wage. However I have one that wants to be paid by the job...with him riding with us.  Not really sure what to tell him ??


Just give him my # I know just what to tell Him....Or I'll tell Him for you..


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## shawn_ (Jan 19, 2014)

20$ here for shovelers in NJ try paying the guys right away that'll make em always want too come back and work.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

It didn't used to be this way. I started by running a sidewalk crew as a sub 9 or 10 years ago. I used to pay $11/hr, and guys would stick around for the whole season. I gradually added guys and had multiple crews going, with up to 20 some employees at one point. Guys would show up all season, and I would give an end of the season bonus based on how many times we went out, if they were always on time, etc. Within the last 5 year or so I've noticed the workforce going to hell. I would get 20 guys, and only 10 would answer their phones, and 6 might actually show up. I would rehire mid season, and the same thing would happen.

When the next year came around, I could call the ones that showed up, and they would have new jobs that they work year round (can't blame them for that). 3 years ago was my worse. I had 12 guys on the books in October. By thanksgiving, before we had a storm, 5 had called to quit. In December when I called to do our first storm I could only reach 3. The 4 of us did a major ice storm, and then a long storm after that, for a route that's supposed to have 10-12 guys. After 8 hrs 2 guys quit, and it was just me and one other guy. He worked 20 hours, and started getting sick. After he puked twice, he asked if he could go home (of course I said yes). I worked about another 5 hours by my self. I ended up giving the guy who tried his damnedest to stick it out a bonus that brought his pay for that storm up to about $40/hr. I made good money that storm, but I've never busted my ass harder in my live. I was sore for 3 days.

Anyway, the good ones are hard to come by. If I could I'd start everyone at $10/hr, and if they haul balls, and actually show up, I'd double it. Problem there, no one would respond to the job with a $10 starting wage.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Well if the shovel guys are getting $20.00 per hour what are the operators getting that got all the responsibility? Just wondering,


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

I'm very small Fred. Just two trucks and one shoveler. I pay my other driver 40.00 per hour. But my situation is not the norm. As a sub, I get paid by the job, and I think I'm fortunate enough to do better than most subs do. So, with my two workers earning a combined 60.00 per hour, I'm still doing just fine. No complaints. If the business grows, I don't know that I'll be able to maintain those wages with more workers. We'll see I guess.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JustJeff said:


> I'm very small Fred. Just two trucks and one shoveler. I pay my other driver 40.00 per hour. But my situation is not the norm. As a sub, I get paid by the job, and I think I'm fortunate enough to do better than most subs do. So, with my two workers earning a combined 60.00 per hour, I'm still doing just fine. No complaints. If the business grows, I don't know that I'll be able to maintain those wages with more workers. We'll see I guess.


Wow... 40 an hour to drive your truck?

The market has improved greatly since I was in the scene. payup


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

No, I know I probably pay him a little more than most people do Phil. But I was desperate to get someone in there that I could trust to be reliable and responsible. To me, that was worth a few bucks more.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JustJeff said:


> I buy meals and all drinks while he's working. I know that probably sounds stupid to pay a shoveler that much, but I don't care, it would be worth 30.00 an hour for me to not have to do it. And he's reliable as hell, shows up every time when he's supposed to.


Thumbs Up

Yep... I get it...


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

Our shovel guys make 30 an hour. Yet again they all been doing it for a decade now. and are reliable and show up every time no matter the temperature or time. But still ocassianly do some silly things like instead of shoveling the snow to the left, they throw it "right" into the parking lot, on a salting event


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

ultimate plow said:


> Our shovel guys make 30 an hour. Yet again they all been doing it for a decade now. and are reliable and show up every time no matter the temperature or time. But still ocassianly do some silly things like instead of shoveling the snow to the left, they throw it "right" into the parking lot, on a salting event


Kudos to you. In all seriousness, it sounds like you take care of your workers pretty well.


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## Richh56 (Dec 31, 2017)

We are small two. Two trucks. We sub for a lawn care outfit. The lawn care starts shovelers at 15. If you show up on time for the 3rd event you make 20. 

I am told only 1 in 15 make it to 20 an hour


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## shawn_ (Jan 19, 2014)

FredG said:


> Well if the shovel guys are getting $20.00 per hour what are the operators getting that got all the responsibility? Just wondering,


Between 30-35 here


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

In all honesty what does $14-17/Hr really buy you these days? I think it's a good wage but with spotty and or inconsistent work (snow events) it doesn't provide enough steady income. Unless it's a second job. I used to pay $15-17/Hr 7 years ago but I would think now you would have to be above $20 to get people. Even then it's slim pickings on good help. BTW...some of you guys are way over booked on jobs. Take less work if you can't find reliable help.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Not even going to get a reply at $14/he aroond here. And we do minimal hand work, most of it is using equipment.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> No, you should be paying them double time after 4 hours, and triple time and a half if they work more than 6 hours a month... oh, and give them some shares of your company too... anything less you are not a good person to work for...


I believe the term was "putz".


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I believe the term was "putz".


And now I am cleaning coffe from the iPad screen... LMFAO!!!!


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm thinking if I needed shovel guys I would have to go find the head Amigo. Just going by what the big landscapers do in this area.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JustJeff said:


> I'm very small Fred. Just two trucks and one shoveler. I pay my other driver 40.00 per hour. But my situation is not the norm. As a sub, I get paid by the job, and I think I'm fortunate enough to do better than most subs do. So, with my two workers earning a combined 60.00 per hour, I'm still doing just fine. No complaints. If the business grows, I don't know that I'll be able to maintain those wages with more workers. We'll see I guess.


I get it for what your doing your location etc. When in a bind I got a guy that will come and you would have to pay $40.00 or have some creative payroll for him to even come out. So if the grunts are getting $20. $30. with a shovel a operator got to be worth $40.00.


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## YooperDog (Dec 28, 2017)

JMHConstruction said:


> It didn't used to be this way. I started by running a sidewalk crew as a sub 9 or 10 years ago. I used to pay $11/hr, and guys would stick around for the whole season. I gradually added guys and had multiple crews going, with up to 20 some employees at one point. Guys would show up all season, and I would give an end of the season bonus based on how many times we went out, if they were always on time, etc. Within the last 5 year or so I've noticed the workforce going to hell. I would get 20 guys, and only 10 would answer their phones, and 6 might actually show up. I would rehire mid season, and the same thing would happen.
> 
> When the next year came around, I could call the ones that showed up, and they would have new jobs that they work year round (can't blame them for that). 3 years ago was my worse. I had 12 guys on the books in October. By thanksgiving, before we had a storm, 5 had called to quit. In December when I called to do our first storm I could only reach 3. The 4 of us did a major ice storm, and then a long storm after that, for a route that's supposed to have 10-12 guys. After 8 hrs 2 guys quit, and it was just me and one other guy. He worked 20 hours, and started getting sick. After he puked twice, he asked if he could go home (of course I said yes). I worked about another 5 hours by my self. I ended up giving the guy who tried his damnedest to stick it out a bonus that brought his pay for that storm up to about $40/hr. I made good money that storm, but I've never busted my ass harder in my live. I was sore for 3 days.
> 
> Anyway, the good ones are hard to come by. If I could I'd start everyone at $10/hr, and if they haul balls, and actually show up, I'd double it. Problem there, no one would respond to the job with a $10 starting wage.


My Friend you just explained exactly why Mr Trump won the election, this has been happening for a few year's without most people seeing it happening, it's all about BAD parenting-politics (dems)-welfare-and government aid, I guess I'm a dumb ass 62yr old marine veteran, but my only thought about your post is guy's should be lined up fighting to shovel a damn sidewalk for $20. buck a hour, the younger generation has been destroyed from a early age in the school system's thru college, sorry you can't be a decent owner anymore--but I would not beg or kiss they're ass-that's for sure, maybe the idea of daily pay would help, best of luck to you.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

YooperDog said:


> My Friend you just explained exactly why Mr Trump won the election, this has been happening for a few year's without most people seeing it happening, it's all about BAD parenting-politics (dems)-welfare-and government aid, I guess I'm a dumb ass 62yr old marine veteran, but my only thought about your post is guy's should be lined up fighting to shovel a damn sidewalk for $20. buck a hour, the younger generation has been destroyed from a early age in the school system's thru college, sorry you can't be a decent owner anymore--but I would not beg or kiss they're ass-that's for sure, maybe the idea of daily pay would help, best of luck to you.


Your older than Randell and myself lol. My Wife is a RN I don't think she is getting $30.00 $28. $29.


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## Goodnyou (Mar 20, 2015)

25 for the new guys .as said most guys don't last . They say they are all in and want to go home after 4 hrs . If they work out , I feed them , give them good atlas gloves, hand and foot warmers . Most new guys don't have good boots. If they work hard they will get to $40 quick. A couple make 50 hr. Most can't cut it . My route is as tight as possible . Inner city. All inside of8 city blocks . No driving , just working . Now we have a dozen regulars and whoever else we can find. Cash on the spot is how it goes with most of my guys. I run them hard feed them well and pay them good and they would go to war for me.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Goodnyou said:


> 25 for the new guys .as said most guys don't last . They say they are all in and want to go home after 4 hrs . If they work out , I feed them , give them good atlas gloves, hand and foot warmers . Most new guys don't have good boots. If they work hard they will get to $40 quick. A couple make 50 hr. Most can't cut it . My route is as tight as possible . Inner city. All inside of8 city blocks . No driving , just working . Now we have a dozen regulars and whoever else we can find. Cash on the spot is how it goes with most of my guys. I run them hard feed them well and pay them good and they would go to war for me.


 Certain situations take cash, I just keep record of amounts and where it went, My Accountant calls it casual labor. Some guys will only take cash. The good ones are laid off from there summer month jobs and won't come without cash. Not going to give up the steady money weekly for a day here and a day there.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

FredG said:


> Certain situations take cash, I just keep record of amounts and where it went


Cash... what is this cash you speak of??


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Cash... what is this cash you speak of??


Safe cash, Creative payroll want ever your term maybe lol.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I've been told that if one engages in the alternative payroll methods, admitting to it on an open and public forum probably isn't the wisest decision, unless one would like unneeded and nuisance attention from the DOL, IRS, and God only knows what other state and federal agencies.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Maybe that's why he goes by Fred on these forms

I've heard it's not his real name


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I've been told that if one engages in the alternative payroll methods, admitting to it on an open and public forum probably isn't the wisest decision, unless one would like unneeded and nuisance attention from the DOL, IRS, and God only knows what other state and federal agencies.


Easy Perry Mason lol, If someone was to hand out cash is not illegal, Depending on amounts and the way it is handled. You ever heard of casual labor. I'm not talking about someone you can keep busy 40 hrs per week. Someone helps you out a day here and a day there during the winter season.

I'm not getting into it but things can be done in a creative way lol.I have nothing to hide lol.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JMHConstruction said:


> Maybe that's why he goes by Fred on these forms
> 
> I've heard it's not his real name


Nope just not scared lol.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

FredG said:


> Easy Perry Mason lol, If someone was to hand out cash is not illegal, Depending on amounts and the way it is handled. You ever heard of casual labor. I'm not talking about someone you can keep busy 40 hrs per week. Someone helps you out a day here and a day there during the winter season.
> 
> I'm not getting into it but things can be done in a creative way lol.I have nothing to hide lol.


Perry Mason... lol Fred you crack me up


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Furthermore I stated certain situations take cash. Never stated I hand out cash lol.


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## Walleye Hunter (Aug 13, 2017)

I hear that this younger generation prefers payment in Bitcoin.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Yes, I know there are loopholes but I don't think I'd push the bubble on it...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Yes, I know there are loopholes but I don't think I'd push the bubble on it...


Just in the winter months, Certainly don't want to do it in the summer months, In Fact I would tell them they got a better shot of getting struck by lightning lol.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Perry Mason... lol Fred you crack me up


Jarrett knows it all in good fun lol.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Walleye Hunter said:


> I hear that this younger generation prefers payment in Bitcoin.


For what 1 bitcoin is "worth", they better work a few seasons


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Each of the hired help, including me, all rotate in and out of the shoveling slot positions. Generally we use all machines to do walks but you're always going to have times where you will shovel.

On another note, in my neck of the woods one of the supposed "big boy" operators was advertising 9 bucks an hour on craigslist last winter season for shovelors. Wonder how that worked out for them. I mean yeah, hard brutal work, freezing cold temps(usually below zero). Apparently this operator thinks this city is poor. Hmmm.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

JustJeff said:


> I've only got 1 shoveler. I paid him 16.00 per hour last year with a 5 hour guarantee (because I only had about 3 hours worth of sidewalks). Jose (his real name is Edgar) drove 1 hour an 15 minutes to meet me at the shop. He never missed an event. At the end of the year I gave him a 500.00 bonus. This year I bumped him up to 20.00. I buy meals and all drinks while he's working. I know that probably sounds stupid to pay a shoveler that much, but I don't care, it would be worth 30.00 an hour for me to not have to do it. And he's reliable as hell, shows up every time when he's supposed to. I don't know what the pay scale is for walks where the rest of the guys live, but for me, even at 20.00 per hour, I make PLENTY off of him. Sidewalks pay pretty well where I'm at, but I just don't want to get my ass out of the truck to do them. I wouldn't want to have so many walks to do that I needed 10 or more shovlers, because that sounds like it would be a staffing nightmare to me, but good old Edgar does me right, and this year he'll get another 500.00 bonus, if not more.


If he has brothers, we need their name and # lol. I've found in past years and still today, regaurdless of pay, some suck and wont work and others will... get rid of the ones who arn't doing much because like others have said too, good ones are worth the money, bad ones, they are costing you more than the $15 an hour to pay them..


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Ice-sage said:


> Each of the hired help, including me, all rotate in and out of the shoveling slot positions. Generally we use all machines to do walks but you're always going to have times where you will shovel.
> 
> On another note, in my neck of the woods one of the supposed "big boy" operators was advertising 9 bucks an hour on craigslist last winter season for shovelors. Wonder how that worked out for them. I mean yeah, hard brutal work, freezing cold temps(usually below zero). Apparently this operator thinks this city is poor. Hmmm.


I've seen $9-12 an hour in NJ too, i've also seen $20-25 for plow drivers and $30-35 for machines like skid steers.. which is arse backwards, machine work is easy, usually not continuous, usually on one site etc. Operation of truck, plow & salt spreader and various sites on routes much more complex.


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## A Hero Lawn Care (Mar 29, 2016)

:laugh::laugh:


Philbilly2 said:


> I know that someone on this forum does not agree, but I would try a Coke machine with beer in it at your shop... it helps me retain my employees...


Lol this brings me back to when I was young. All throughout high school I would skip school to go shovel. Boss man always gave us a couple beers mid shift to "keep us warm" lol

Looking back it probably wasn't the best idea. Then I got promoted to clear walks on the atv. No more beers


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## A Hero Lawn Care (Mar 29, 2016)

Ramairfreak98ss said:


> I've seen $9-12 an hour in NJ too, i've also seen $20-25 for plow drivers and $30-35 for machines like skid steers.. which is arse backwards, machine work is easy, usually not continuous, usually on one site etc. Operation of truck, plow & salt spreader and various sites on routes much more complex.


My helper keeps insisting that the last company paid him $20/he to shovel walks... I just can't come to understand that as a feasible wage. He is making $15 and I still think that's a stretch for his work ethic and productivity.

The employee part of things is one of the more difficult things I have had to deal with in business... got to figure it out


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## A Hero Lawn Care (Mar 29, 2016)

Goodnyou said:


> 25 for the new guys .as said most guys don't last . They say they are all in and want to go home after 4 hrs . If they work out , I feed them , give them good atlas gloves, hand and foot warmers . Most new guys don't have good boots. If they work hard they will get to $40 quick. A couple make 50 hr. Most can't cut it . My route is as tight as possible . Inner city. All inside of8 city blocks . No driving , just working . Now we have a dozen regulars and whoever else we can find. Cash on the spot is how it goes with most of my guys. I run them hard feed them well and pay them good and they would go to war for me.


Shight.. can i sell my plow to come shovel for You? I've got the boots lol


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## wishfull (Nov 22, 2017)

I got a young guy on salary. Not a bad worker but a better whiner. Likes to go home asap to play video games and then *****es if he is called back out. Got a middle aged fellow with a disability and can only work part time. He asked for $16 an hour and got it. Willing to go out on a moments notice and does anything you ask of him. He needs a raise.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

When I need a shovel guy, he gets 30% of what I can bill off his work. Last time out he made $130, worked about 4.5 hours.
He drives himself.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

jonniesmooth said:


> When I need a shovel guy, he gets 30% of what I can bill off his work. Last time out he made $130, worked about 4.5 hours.
> He drives himself.


To me he drives himself is worth the money, I don't even talk to guys that don't drive, Most have DL but not capable of supporting a vehicle or don't know how to take a cab when they been drinking to much.


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## Walleye Hunter (Aug 13, 2017)

A Hero Lawn Care said:


> *My helper keeps insisting that the last company paid him $20/he to shovel walks... *I just can't come to understand that as a feasible wage. He is making $15 and I still think that's a stretch for his work ethic and productivity.
> 
> The employee part of things is one of the more difficult things I have had to deal with in business... got to figure it out


Tell him that that's what you pay the guys who show up on time and work while they're there.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

FredG said:


> To me he drives himself is worth the money, I don't even talk to guys that don't drive, Most have DL but not capable of supporting a vehicle or don't know how to take a cab when they been drinking to much.


Absolutely! He used to be one of those other guys.
He's working on getting his poop in a group. Baby steps. 
You hear all this crap about "white privilege", it's got nothing to do with the color of anyone's skin.
But it's got a lot to do with having good parents, who encourage and guide you, and listening to them if you do.
He's the product of a single alcoholic mother and the foster care system.
Now if I can just get his self esteem up so he believes he can pull a trailer, I'll have another good sub.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

jonniesmooth said:


> Absolutely! He used to be one of those other guys.
> He's working on getting his poop in a group. Baby steps.
> You hear all this crap about "white privilege", it's got nothing to do with the color of anyone's skin.
> But it's got a lot to do with having good parents, who encourage and guide you, and listening to them if you do.
> ...


Good for him and you, Baby steps is okay if in the right direction and hopefully you end up with a good guy that might be figuring life out.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Thinkers will always go for the piece work. If a guy wants to be paid by the job why would you not ablidge. You know what the job is worth, pay what you know its worth for you to make your coin. It motivates him to hustle and get things done. Pay a guy by the hour and you don't know what your going to get. He could drag it out cause what does he care how fast it gets done. Looks like I'm in the minority here...


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

i do 15/hr plus 1 dollar per hour at the end of the season for perfect attendance.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mr.Markus said:


> Thinkers will always go for the piece work. If a guy wants to be paid by the job why would you not ablidge. You know what the job is worth, pay what you know its worth for you to make your coin. It motivates him to hustle and get things done. Pay a guy by the hour and you don't know what your going to get. He could drag it out cause what does he care how fast it gets done. Looks like I'm in the minority here...


I'll take guys on piece work if I had a lot to do. As long as I average out good on all pieces in the end I'm happy, I'm not totally against me providing transportation if there doing volume but I want them to be able to get to my truck to start anyways, If one proves worthy I'll come up with a hoopty for them lol.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Broncslefty7 said:


> i do 15/hr plus 1 dollar per hour at the end of the season for perfect attendance.


That is creative... I like it.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Philbilly2 said:


> That is creative... I like it.


I am all about bonuses. Dollar bills are " tokens of appreciation "


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

yup lol.... and they all come back the next fall.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

jonniesmooth said:


> I am all about bonuses. Dollar bills are " tokens of appreciation "


When we're doing leaf clean up, I give my guy a bonus if he doesn't plug the leaf loader all day.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

FredG said:


> I'll come up with a hoopty for them.


"Hoopty"??? Fred, when did you become so damn street smart???


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JustJeff said:


> "Hoopty"??? Fred, when did you become so damn street smart???


It's been a lot of years, Yes a lot of years LMAO


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

I start them at $15 with valid DL, $12 without and it goes up depending on how long they have been around. Everyone is eligible for bonus based on efficiency and quality. I also offer end of the season bonuses for attendance and punctuality.


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