# Salaried Employees for Snow Removal



## Swede73

Question: I have a few salaried employees who manage different snow sites for me. All the hourly employees are paid an additional $4.00/hour for removal, but we do not pay the salaried employees any extra. Does anybody else do this or are salaried employees typically paid extra as well for snow removal?


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## icudoucme

I worked for a company that did the same thing. I was one of the salaried guys, but i was year round. Per hour the seasonal winter guys made more, but i was paid regardless of the weather. 

I guess it would depend on if they get paid per week no matter the weather. If so they know what they signed up for. Don't rock the boat. If you have a couple rock stars buy them dinner or get them a gift card.


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## ponyboy

Salary get same all year
If no snow does he give u back money


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## John_DeereGreen

Are these office help or in the field production staff?


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## FredG

Salary is salary with no avenues to it unless your working them 60 hrs per week, Do they give you money back when there out with the flu. It's good of you to be generous but don't wake the bear.


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## rick W

I only have one salary guy, my foreman. He gets a good cheque but is also a hell of a worker. There are days he takes off to do stuff with kids or work at his house, help family but usually finds lots of stuff to do around the shop when no winter work. Always tweaking things, making improvements, servicing equip etc. He is the only one to go in early morning like this just to do a drive buy/touch up. He gives me every penny worth of his wage when we have weather. (dec he likely didnt make minimum wage, but in jan its been his win so far) I dont pay him extra at all but he basically works the hours he wants when no snow and its all good. He is good to me , i am good to him. Over time it works out just like the flat rate contracts.


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## leolkfrm

its called a "bonus check" for above and beyond in a good year


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## Luther

Swede73 said:


> Question: I have a few salaried employees who manage different snow sites for me. All the hourly employees are paid an additional $4.00/hour for removal, but we do not pay the salaried employees any extra. Does anybody else do this or are salaried employees typically paid extra as well for snow removal?


Check your labor laws. There are typically 2 types of salaried employees...those that are exempt, and those that are non-exempt from overtime pay. Depends on their position, their duties, how many people they supervise, etc. etc.

Even if you have it written in your employee manual that the salary is based on 45 hours per week, 50 hours per week, 60 hours per week, whatever...doesn't matter. Overtime must be paid after 40 hours if the salaried employee is nonexempt. You won't be able to consider, argue or carry over hours from one week that the employee worked less that 40 hours, to another week the employee worked more than 40. It doesn't work that way.

A smart (or disgruntled) employee can make the employer pay them for all of the past overtime hours they worked and were not paid extra. Be careful who you put on salary.


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## Defcon 5

If I'm not mistaken Jim...The salaried employees salary has to be less than x amount to qualify for overtime...Our dispatchers are salaried which is based on 45 hours...They work way more hours than that...But do not qualify for OT due to they make just above the minimum amount to qualify


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## Luther

Company policy?


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## ponyboy

No federal laws


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## tpendagast

FredG said:


> Salary is salary with no avenues to it unless your working them 60 hrs per week, Do they give you money back when there out with the flu. It's good of you to be generous but don't wake the bear.


have you ever had a salary employee that has put in less than 2,080 hours in any given year? ever?
I personally have never seen that happen.


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## Luther

I'm willing to bet you have never personally reviewed time cards with actual documented hours worked from salaried employees over the course of one year.


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## FredG

tpendagast said:


> have you ever had a salary employee that has put in less than 2,080 hours in any given year? ever?
> I personally have never seen that happen.


Personally I never had a salaried employee. The couple of Guys I wanted to put a salary would not go for it. I know guys on salary that work somewhere in the 2800 + hour work year, They also get 2 to 3 weeks payed vacation per year.

My Business is basically seasonal besides a Driver and myself. My snow guys come to me after the layoff and return to there union jobs in the spring or when ever the weather permits them to go back to work. Yes in a perfect world 2080 hrs per yr is 40 hrs per week. Not all but most contractors that have salaried employee's want more than 40 hrs per week because of time off and don't have to pay OT.

I took a salary job once with a truck from the contractor, No thanks everybody was going home and I would have to move equipment or go to the office and help with estimating and submitals etc.


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## FredG

Luther said:


> Check your labor laws. There are typically 2 types of salaried employees...those that are exempt, and those that are non-exempt from overtime pay. Depends on their position, their duties, how many people they supervise, etc. etc.
> 
> Even if you have it written in your employee manual that the salary is based on 45 hours per week, 50 hours per week, 60 hours per week, whatever...doesn't matter. Overtime must be paid after 40 hours if the salaried employee is nonexempt. You won't be able to consider, argue or carry over hours from one week that the employee worked less that 40 hours, to another week the employee worked more than 40. It doesn't work that way.
> 
> A smart (or disgruntled) employee can make the employer pay them for all of the past overtime hours they worked and were not paid extra. Be careful who you put on salary.


Better check your labor laws well if you have salary guys. Things change, I just went to the NYS labor laws. I did not post a link but they are saying the same thing Luther is. I was not aware but I think my upper post is BS lol.


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## Herm Witte

I moved away from "salary" paid employees. Even those that help in managing our company. No matter what documentation is laid out there is always the danger of an owner having his or her expectations greater than that of the employees. As a result we have several folk full time year around working 40 hours a week plus any additional hours at time and one half. Also when plowing they are paid a different (higher) rate. Treat your employees legally and fairly and they will respect you and stay around. They are the ones that make it possible to grow your business.


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## tpendagast

FredG said:


> PI took a salary job once with a truck from the contractor, No thanks everybody was going home and I would have to move equipment or go to the office and help with estimating and submitals etc.


And when everyone is sitting at home with no paycheck because it hadn't snowed in three weeks you're still getting paid.


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## FredG

tpendagast said:


> And when everyone is sitting at home with no paycheck because it hadn't snowed in three weeks you're still getting paid.


I was running a Gomaco concrete paver year round in the south. Won't be no salary guys on my Winter crew plowing. Besides some trucks and driver or emergency water line breaks etc. we are basically shut down besides the snow.

In Construction Union or Davis baker a salaried employee will earn the least money, That's why it causes a lot of issues when the superintendents that are salary find out the operators and maybe a laborer are earning more than them.

FWIW you could not be sitting at home if you were salary on my crew. I would have you sweeping floors and numerous other things before you sat 3 weeks off on me. Yes a day here and a day there would be okay. Weeks are not going to happen. This maybe just me but that's how it is.


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## JMHConstruction

I tried the salary thing with a foreman I had about 4 years ago. I ended up letting him go because of his work ethic change. I know it's not exactly your situation, but this is my experience with it.

He would roll up early on jobsites every day, ***** that we would work if there was a chance of rain or if jobsite conditions weren't perfect (because I should have called a rain day), started calling in a lot, and not show up for snow events. I wanted to make sure he was taken care of year round, even if we weren't working because of weather. Instead he took advantage every chance he could.

It didn't work for me, but to the right person it might. I didn't pay extra for snow, because he was getting paid for the week before that he didn't work at all. He must have seen it differently. Now everyone is hourly (except me), and I've included a bonus program for my current foreman. It's a little incentive to get jobs done, and he's always wanting to work now.


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## Mark Oomkes

I did it in the past...and their plowing hours were at a higher rate...and at the end of the season they always came out ahead. Never once made them work it off, they did a good job and it was kind of a "bonus". 

One of the guys understood it and appreciated it, they other thought he was getting ripped off. No, he wasn't good at math. Salary was based on 45 hours, and as I do now, if we had a bizzie week I would give them Friday(s) off. I stopped the salary thing.


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## John_DeereGreen

So...to go along with the thread concept sort of. 
As an employer, which would you consider being more generous to your employees given the nature of winter weather:

A: time and a half for all snow hours. "Snow hours" being defined as plowing/salting. Shop time, wash time etc is straight time. 

B: set number of minimum paid hours per week/pay period, no matter what weather exists, with a reliability bonus and performance bonus paid monthly, computed on snow hours worked.


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> A: time and a half for all snow hours. "Snow hours" being defined as plowing/salting. Shop time, wash time etc is straight time.


Better be careful how you classify snow hours. Just using OT\time and a half has a serious potential to cause issues with DOL.


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Better be careful how you classify snow hours. Just using OT\time and a half has a serious potential to cause issues with DOL.


I wrote it that way for ease of posting. Technically their standard rate of pay would be $10 per hour with a $5 per hour bonus. (example not actual numbers) Then for non snow hours, the rate of pay is correct, there just isn't a bonus. Snow bonus would be written into the offer of employment paper as one half of standard hourly wage will be paid for all snow hours worked. Unless the accountant and lawyer would say there is a better or different way to do it.

Remember, this is theoretical at this point. So, which option would you see as being more generous to your employees?


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> I wrote it that way for ease of posting. Technically their standard rate of pay would be $10 per hour with a $5 per hour bonus. (example not actual numbers) Then for non snow hours, the rate of pay is correct, there just isn't a bonus. Snow bonus would be written into the offer of employment paper as one half of standard hourly wage will be paid for all snow hours worked. Unless the accountant and lawyer would say there is a better or different way to do it.
> 
> Remember, this is theoretical at this point. So, which option would you see as being more generous to your employees?


Still looking at possible issues.

Depends on if one is in a low or high (boy) snow area...


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Still looking at possible issues.
> 
> Depends on if one is in a low or high (boy) snow area...


Saying you're in an area that can get 20" a year to 60" a year. And it's anyone's guess what you actually get.


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## extremepusher

So if a guy is salary, works 65 to 70 hrs plowing & repairs. And is working 40hrs to 45 hrs when not snowing doing maintenance and other work is the salary fair or do you add a bonus?


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## tpendagast

FredG said:


> I was running a Gomaco concrete paver year round in the south. Won't be no salary guys on my Winter crew plowing. Besides some trucks and driver or emergency water line breaks etc. we are basically shut down besides the snow.
> 
> In Construction Union or Davis baker a salaried employee will earn the least money, That's why it causes a lot of issues when the superintendents that are salary find out the operators and maybe a laborer are earning more than them.
> 
> FWIW you could not be sitting at home if you were salary on my crew. I would have you sweeping floors and numerous other things before you sat 3 weeks off on me. Yes a day here and a day there would be okay. Weeks are not going to happen. This maybe just me but that's how it is.


The people sitting at home are the hourly guys
Notice i said with NO paycheck

No work? No hours
No hours? No paycheck

I have guys that work for me Davis bacon 
There are weeks their paycheck is higher than mine.
When we get w2s
My number is ahways bigger.

In your above post you just outted yourself as the type that would/does abuse salary employees.
Nice.

FWIW you can't work a salary position more than 20% in direct income producing work AND have them work any OT, OR you owe them that OT.

Seriously, you would have a salary manager sweep floors ? Even though for weeks on end he worked 60 hours a week and you only paid him for 40-45, you feel someone would OWE YOU sweeping?


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## tpendagast

extremepusher said:


> So if a guy is salary, works 65 to 70 hrs plowing & repairs. And is working 40hrs to 45 hrs when not snowing doing maintenance and other work is the salary fair or do you add a bonus?


A salary manager/supervisor cannot work more than 20% of his time doing direct income producing work, AND work OT...OR you have to pay him said ot.

Generally this isn't going to happen with snow plowing a single week , you lake effect guys MIGHT Have this happen , but it's unlikely to happen all winter long.

Depending on your state wether you pay ot at 8 hours or 40
In Alaska it's BOTH.

But let's assume 40.
So 20% of manager As time is 8 hours.
If he works over 8 hours in a payroll period (week) doing plowing AND he works over 40 hours the same week you owe him OT.

BUT, he could just be supervising.
Running/managing/dispatching other Plowers.
So is he producing on his own route? Or doing quality control on multiple routes?
There's a difference.

Manager B might work 79 hours in a week but only 7 hours were spent directly on billable hours.
You're good no OT owed.

Where you run afoul is trying to pay production level employees a salary to avoid paying ot.

In some states you can run dudes 18 hours for a storm with no OT, because they didn't work over 40 in that week. 
Other states like Alaska you have to pay ot for over 8.

But for example, 
Let's say the guy starts shift on the 24th at 8pm and works into the 25th at 8 am
12 hours 
But no ot, because not more than 8 hours was worked in the same DAY.

This is all dependent on your state 
Nearly all of them are a little different 
I feel bad for the guys what have contracts in multiple states.


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## tpendagast

Luther said:


> I'm willing to bet you have never personally reviewed time cards with actual documented hours worked from salaried employees over the course of one year.


Generally
Salaries employees don't fill out time cards unless their work is being billed.

For example if I go out to do some sanding , I'll fill it out, otherwise it would get billed.
But I don't fill out a time card to do office work or supervising.

Over the past 20 years I've directly supervised many salary and hourly workers , consistently and know countless others through other business owners and have never come across salary workers that don't put in a minimum of 2,080 hours in a full year of employment.


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## FredG

tpendagast said:


> Generally
> Salaries employees don't fill out time cards unless their work is being billed.
> 
> For example if I go out to do some sanding , I'll fill it out, otherwise it would get billed.
> But I don't fill out a time card to do office work or supervising.
> 
> Over the past 20 years I've directly supervised many salary and hourly workers , consistently and know countless others through other business owners and have never come across salary workers that don't put in a minimum of 2,080 hours in a full year of employment.


2080 hrs is basically 40 hours a week, You want to give your guys 3 weeks paid vacation your a :terribletowel:. Don't be preaching here I put in my 25 years and retired and never had a paid vacation though my Union and most of the time had 10 to 14 guys under my wing I don't remember any of them bucking for salary, In this part of the world when you not working you collect unemployment and sub pay from the Union it's what most non union salary workers earn. So whats your point besides you want to be super generous. Luther is right and you are wrong.


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## extremepusher

Its getting to be hog wash.


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## FredG

tpendagast said:


> And when everyone is sitting at home with no paycheck because it hadn't snowed in three weeks you're still getting paid.


Mr Salary, FYI I'm sitting here in my office, My laid off guys our making better than half of there weekly pay check. I'm seeing it cost me 6.2% of every $7K they have earned if there union or davis baker 1/2 half of there pay check would be somewhere around $1200. per week as a operator. Of course there is a cap on that and there probably getting $600.00 per week doing nothing. This is why in this part of the world we add 20% in the bidding process, Do the math, I'm thinking you would have to be a :terribletowel:to work salary. So tell me how the guys sitting home get no pay check?


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## tpendagast

FredG said:


> Mr Salary, FYI I'm sitting here in my office, My laid off guys our making better than half of there weekly pay check. I'm seeing it cost me 6.2% of every $7K they have earned if there union or davis baker 1/2 half of there pay check would be somewhere around $1200. per week as a operator. Of course there is a cap on that and there probably getting $600.00 per week doing nothing. This is why in this part of the world we add 20% in the bidding process, Do the math, I'm thinking you would have to be a :terribletowel:to work salary. So tell me how the guys sitting home get no pay check?


I don't understand your question?

Hourly workers , work no hours.
Pay rate multiplied by zero is zero. 
So if they sit at home they get no pay.
Are you referring to unemployment insurance?
That varies by state. 
Some states it's terrible, others it's oretty decent. 
But every state has a cap , so the higher paid guys end of getting the same weekly check as the mid wage guys.

If you were hauling in Davis bacon over the summer months and it doesn't snow, you'd get the same capped ui as if you'd never worked DB.
However if you saved/banked your DB over the summer , then you'd have a nest egg to pass through slow periods, supplemented by state ui checks.

But, if at the end of the day, your w2 is lower than the salary guy, that means your highs aren't enough to offer set your lows.
You can certainly have bumper crop years with DB coming out your ears, but you can't count on it either.

You can budget off a salary because you always know what it's going to be.

It's realky just a life style choice, there's no right or wrong to it.
If you don't want to work salary, don't do it. 
Do salary guys get abused? Too much work in busy times and piss ant tasks like painting walls and sweeping and mopping during slow periods? 
Yes, it can happen. 
All that means is they should be looking for a new job.


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## FredG

tpendagast said:


> I don't understand your question?
> 
> Hourly workers , work no hours.
> Pay rate multiplied by zero is zero.
> So if they sit at home they get no pay.
> Are you referring to unemployment insurance?
> That varies by state.
> Some states it's terrible, others it's oretty decent.
> But every state has a cap , so the higher paid guys end of getting the same weekly check as the mid wage guys.
> 
> If you were hauling in Davis bacon over the summer months and it doesn't snow, you'd get the same capped ui as if you'd never worked DB.
> However if you saved/banked your DB over the summer , then you'd have a nest egg to pass through slow periods, supplemented by state ui checks.
> 
> But, if at the end of the day, your w2 is lower than the salary guy, that means your highs aren't enough to offer set your lows.
> You can certainly have bumper crop years with DB coming out your ears, but you can't count on it either.
> 
> You can budget off a salary because you always know what it's going to be.
> 
> It's realky just a life style choice, there's no right or wrong to it.
> If you don't want to work salary, don't do it.
> Do salary guys get abused? Too much work in busy times and piss ant tasks like painting walls and sweeping and mopping during slow periods?
> Yes, it can happen.
> All that means is they should be looking for a new job.


DB only counts if your hauling on site! Delivery's of materials or hauling out does not pertain to DB. Don't play dumb plenty sit home in the winter with no hours worked and have a income not to mention if there union there sub pay use to be 125.00 per week years ago. Yes unemployment.


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## JMHConstruction

tpendagast said:


> Do salary guys get abused? Too much work in busy times and piss ant tasks like painting walls and sweeping and mopping during slow periods?
> Yes, it can happen.
> All that means is they should be looking for a new job.


Why does it matter if they do "piss ant" tasks" if they're getting paid the same?

Granted when I did my guy salary he sat at home a lot in the winter because of no work, but if I needed something he was the first to get the call. As a business owner, why would you want to pay someone for doing nothing? If I had something to do, whether it was help load/unload ice melt bags, help fix tools, whatever, he was my go to guy.

I do piss ant jobs when I'm slow because it needs to be done. Now if he can be working somewhere more productive, then the hourly guys stepped in. I'm not a bad guy to work for, but if you don't want to do the job at hand, there's the door. If you want to get paid for doing nothing, my business isn't the job for you...


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## FredG

JMHConstruction said:


> Why does it matter if they do "piss ant" tasks" if they're getting paid the same?
> 
> Granted when I did my guy salary he sat at home a lot in the winter because of no work, but if I needed something he was the first to get the call. As a business owner, why would you want to pay someone for doing nothing? If I had something to do, whether it was help load/unload ice melt bags, help fix tools, whatever, he was my go to guy.
> 
> I do piss ant jobs when I'm slow because it needs to be done. Now if he can be working somewhere more productive, then the hourly guys stepped in. I'm not a bad guy to work for, but if you don't want to do the job at hand, there's the door. If you want to get paid for doing nothing, my business isn't the job for you...


How many times were you payed to sit home??? None? Also if your a union employee you can't get fired sorta speak. You still have to give them unemployment.


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## FredG

JMHConstruction said:


> Why does it matter if they do "piss ant" tasks" if they're getting paid the same?
> 
> Granted when I did my guy salary he sat at home a lot in the winter because of no work, but if I needed something he was the first to get the call. As a business owner, why would you want to pay someone for doing nothing? If I had something to do, whether it was help load/unload ice melt bags, help fix tools, whatever, he was my go to guy.
> 
> I do piss ant jobs when I'm slow because it needs to be done. Now if he can be working somewhere more productive, then the hourly guys stepped in. I'm not a bad guy to work for, but if you don't want to do the job at hand, there's the door. If you want to get paid for doing nothing, my business isn't the job for you...


What's a piss ant job? A good team works together and gets it done no matter what has to be done.I was cleaning and oiling spreaders yesterday. Which is about the last thing I want to do. Wet cold salt residue, diesel fuel and grease all over me. I guess I mix in good with the piss ants lol.


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## JMHConstruction

FredG said:


> How many times were you payed to sit home??? None? Also if your a union employee you can't get fired sorta speak. You still have to give them unemployment.


The only time I got paid to sit at home was unemployment. Then I started doing snow, and because I was a "business owner" (if you could have call me that back then..) I couldn't claim. That was back when it actually snowed in Kansas City though...


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## FredG

JMHConstruction said:


> The only time I got paid to sit at home was unemployment. Then I started doing snow, and because I was a "business owner" (if you could call me that) I couldn't claim. That was back when it actually snowed in Kansas City though...


I been in the work force since 1977, This is how it works. Ya project Managers are usually salary and work year round. They still get muscled around with hours, They will not sit home besides sickness or heath issues. And they might get a week off when the whole company shuts down for Christmas and new years with the acceptation of a snow and ice crew if the company has one. Landscapers got the majority of the good stuff, Bigger construction contractors pass on it now a days. Back in the day the big road contractors had it all, Things change.


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## tpendagast

JMHConstruction said:


> Why does it matter if they do "piss ant" tasks" if they're getting paid the same?
> 
> Granted when I did my guy salary he sat at home a lot in the winter because of no work, but if I needed something he was the first to get the call. As a business owner, why would you want to pay someone for doing nothing? If I had something to do, whether it was help load/unload ice melt bags, help fix tools, whatever, he was my go to guy.
> 
> I do piss ant jobs when I'm slow because it needs to be done. Now if he can be working somewhere more productive, then the hourly guys stepped in. I'm not a bad guy to work for, but if you don't want to do the job at hand, there's the door. If you want to get paid for doing nothing, my business isn't the job for you...


If the salary is based on say 45 hours and the guy is doing 65-70 for the majority of your busy season , say may thru August , then you have a mild winter where there is little to no regular work, the salary balances out.
But if you're making him pick up ciagarette butts to get your "monies worth" you're abusing the salary employee 
You already got your monies worth when he was busting his stones in the busy season.

This would be like a monthly installment customer expecting you to come over and clean toilets because they're paying you and it hadn't snowed in weeks.


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## JMHConstruction

tpendagast said:


> If the salary is based on say 45 hours and the guy is doing 65-70 for the majority of your busy season , say may thru August , then you have a mild winter where there is little to no regular work, the salary balances out.
> But if you're making him pick up ciagarette butts to get your "monies worth" you're abusing the salary employee
> You already got your monies worth when he was busting his stones in the busy season.
> 
> This would be like a monthly installment customer expecting you to come over and clean toilets because they're paying you and it hadn't snowed in weeks.


While I agree with you that it can balance out, I think it would depend on the business. For every week we work 60 hours, there's weeks that we work 32 hours because of rain. The salaried guy made as much or more through the busy season, but it was a constant amount that wasn't going to change. That's why it didn't work out for me. He gladly got payed for the rain days, but was made during the 60 hour weeks that his "hourly pay" went down. You have to take the good with the bad. During winter, while I collect my paycheck, I usually do the crap jobs. Clean the trucks, plow, and salter, maintenance on everything, repair broken tools, replace shovel handles, you name it, but I also get paid while I sit at home and relax because instead of working a full week, it might only be 3 days. The good still needs to outweigh the bad, but you have to accept both.

As for seasonal customers wanting you to clean bathrooms, although I understand your thinking there, it's comparing apples to oranges. You're not an employee of that business, you're contracted out. I can't call my subs and tell them to clean the bathrooms, because they're not employees. An employee has agreed to trade time for a set amount of money, a contractor has agreed on a job for a set amount of money. Usually time isn't involved in pay, just job completion.

Just my opinion. I'm not saying you're wrong I'm right, or vice versa, just giving my thoughts on it.


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## tpendagast

JMHConstruction said:


> While I agree with you that it can balance out, I think it would depend on the business. For every week we work 60 hours, there's weeks that we work 32 hours because of rain. The salaried guy made as much or more through the busy season, but it was a constant amount that wasn't going to change. That's why it didn't work out for me. He gladly got payed for the rain days, but was made during the 60 hour weeks that his "hourly pay" went down. You have to take the good with the bad. During winter, while I collect my paycheck, I usually do the crap jobs. Clean the trucks, plow, and salter, maintenance on everything, repair broken tools, replace shovel handles, you name it, but I also get paid while I sit at home and relax because instead of working a full week, it might only be 3 days. The good still needs to outweigh the bad, but you have to accept both.
> 
> As for seasonal customers wanting you to clean bathrooms, although I understand your thinking there, it's comparing apples to oranges. You're not an employee of that business, you're contracted out. I can't call my subs and tell them to clean the bathrooms, because they're not employees. An employee has agreed to trade time for a set amount of money, a contractor has agreed on a job for a set amount of money. Usually time isn't involved in pay, just job completion.
> 
> Just my opinion. I'm not saying you're wrong I'm right, or vice versa, just giving my thoughts on it.


Yes well 
Some people aren't cut out for salary

Guy works 60 hours, but it's not "labor" , it's management/supervision/exempt work.

In the off season like you mentioned he's only working 32 hours, why? Because you don't have anything productive for him to do.
If you did, he'd be doing it.

Also another thing t keep in mind with salary guys that are mad because they are working a lot,
"Hey man, I could get two hourly guys and you could both work 30 a week"

The point of Salary is you know you need him, but every hour isn't necessarily going to be efficient/productive. 
Paper work, phone calls, admin duties and what not.
If he was just azzes and elbows all day long, he wouldn't be salary in the first place.

For every salary guy you have , you'd have ten or more hourly guys

Salary isn't for everyone.
It's just that when you do use it, both parties should be aware not to abuse it.


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## FredG

tpendagast said:


> Yes well
> Some people aren't cut out for salary
> 
> Guy works 60 hours, but it's not "labor" , it's management/supervision/exempt work.
> 
> In the off season like you mentioned he's only working 32 hours, why? Because you don't have anything productive for him to do.
> If you did, he'd be doing it.
> 
> Also another thing t keep in mind with salary guys that are mad because they are working a lot,
> "Hey man, I could get two hourly guys and you could both work 30 a week"
> 
> The point of Salary is you know you need him, but every hour isn't necessarily going to be efficient/productive.
> Paper work, phone calls, admin duties and what not.
> If he was just azzes and elbows all day long, he wouldn't be salary in the first place.
> 
> For every salary guy you have , you'd have ten or more hourly guys
> 
> Salary isn't for everyone.
> It's just that when you do use it, both parties should be aware not to abuse it.


Okay lets try this a different way, If I'm out of work cause of weather related issues etc I could careless if your salary or hourly, You are getting the layoff. I my concern is the business being profitable. I don't spoon feed anybody. Snow plowing is not a full time gig anyways in my World.


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## FredG

tpendagast said:


> Yes well
> Some people aren't cut out for salary
> 
> Guy works 60 hours, but it's not "labor" , it's management/supervision/exempt work.
> 
> In the off season like you mentioned he's only working 32 hours, why? Because you don't have anything productive for him to do.
> If you did, he'd be doing it.
> 
> Also another thing t keep in mind with salary guys that are mad because they are working a lot,
> "Hey man, I could get two hourly guys and you could both work 30 a week"
> 
> The point of Salary is you know you need him, but every hour isn't necessarily going to be efficient/productive.
> Paper work, phone calls, admin duties and what not.
> If he was just azzes and elbows all day long, he wouldn't be salary in the first place.
> 
> For every salary guy you have , you'd have ten or more hourly guys
> 
> Salary isn't for everyone.
> It's just that when you do use it, both parties should be aware not to abuse it.


To be honest with you your reply's seem to be coming from a disgruntled employee. Just so we know what were dealing here are you a Business owner or a employee. Not that it matters plenty of well educated members that are not in business. Most have been there and moved on, others just been under someones wing and are talented.


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