# CDL license?



## Don James

Do I need a cdl license to plow residential driveways in Massachusetts?


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## FredG

Don James said:


> Do I need a cdl license to plow residential driveways in Massachusetts?


Not is the truck you have posted.


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## leolkfrm

not as long as the truck gvwr is under 26000, might need dot numbers


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## tpendagast

Don James said:


> Do I need a cdl license to plow residential driveways in Massachusetts?


Behind every question like this, there's an interesting story behind why it's being asked...

Who told you that you needed a CDL to plow driveways? 
What are you intending to plow the driveways with?


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## Don James

I have dot numbers. The truck and plow are in my signature. I read on internet Massachusetts drivers need cdl license. Didn’t make sense to me but I like to be legit. I appreciate the responses.


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## fireside

Not under 26001 GVW or trailer greater than 10,001. You do need a Medical drivers card. All that stuff is federal law


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## BossPlow2010

fireside said:


> Not under 26001 GVW


It's GVWR not GVW


> or trailer greater than 10,001.


 *When the GCWR is greater than 26,001*


> You do need a Medical drivers card. All that stuff is federal law


Only when gvwr is greater than 10k and you're doing interstate commerce


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## fireside

Anytime AN motor vehicle used for the purpose of commerce is required to have a medical card there is no mention of weight or register as commercial use!!! The fine for no medical card is $125 yup it’s true I know even got a copy from the prosecutor when I contested the ticket. So yes your normal car used to do business requires it


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## fireside

Just can’t make this stuff up. Not to mention all the insurance stuff federally required. 750k and 1 million mandatorily insurance on all comm reg stuff federal law again. Thank you Avon ct


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## John_DeereGreen

BossPlow2010 said:


> Only when gvwr is greater than 10k and you're doing interstate commerce


Depends on the state I believe. Ohio requires medical card for over 10k even intrastate.


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## prezek

Another debate...Maryland medical card for anything over 10k. Intrastate included.


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## Don James

Massachusetts anything over 10001 used in inter or intrastate commerce requires dot numbers and medical cards Used to not need dot numbers for the intrastate work but they changed the law effective 9/1/18 to now require dot certification. Can’t get away with anything in this state.


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## John_DeereGreen

Technically OH requires USDOT intrastate also but it’s very seldom enforced for under CDL trucks.


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## theplowmeister

fireside said:


> Anytime AN motor vehicle used for the purpose of commerce is required to have a medical card there is no mention of weight or register as commercial use!!! The fine for no medical card is $125 yup it's true I know even got a copy from the prosecutor when I contested the ticket. So yes your normal car used to do business requires it


Maybe in CT... in MA if the GVW is over 10,001 you need a DOT Med Card, the fine in MA is $350 Or so my friend that got one (Ticket for no DOT Med card) told me.


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## FredG

You don't need a medical car under CDL limits. Yes DOT numbers may be required.


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## BossPlow2010

So I guess it is dependent on state 
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-license/medical


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## prezek

FredG said:


> You don't need a medical car under CDL limits. Yes DOT numbers may be required.


Depends on state. We run all 3/4 ton trucks for landscaping. 8800 gvwr. Anytime we hook a landscaping trailer to a truck to push us over 10k we are subject to being stopped. I was last year with a 12k dump trailer. All my guys carry them now.


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## cwren2472

If the truck has air brakes and you are on private property, do you need the air brake endorsement?


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## Randall Ave

cwren2472 said:


> If the truck has air brakes and you are on private property, do you need the air brake endorsement?


Throwen gas on that fire. New Jersey 10,000lbs and over, commercial you need a medical card and DOT numbers.
That's what the State Trooper told me at an inspection stop I was at.


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## FredG

In NYS I need a cdl in my Furd ranger, with a 5000lb gvw trailer. Oh plus the air brake endorsement and haz mat. Not to mention my driver physical.


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## fireside

They have me a copy of the whole medical card section! The only spot that talked about any weight was random drug testing. That section anyone running any truck over 26,001 no matter how many employees required it! So dole operators must join one of the those groups to meet the law.
In ct they love all the cars with wraps and lettering!! The fully meet the letter of the law and dot pulls them over


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## Hydromaster

What if yer 13yrs old, live on a ranch &
drivie vehicles with farm plates?


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## BossPlow2010

FredG said:


> In NYS I need a cdl in my Furd ranger, with a 5000lb gvw trailer. Oh plus the air brake endorsement and haz mat. Not to mention my driver physical.


Restriction


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## Ajlawn1

Hydromaster said:


> What if yer 13yrs old, live on a ranch &
> drivie vehicles with farm plates?


We've been over this, he can haul nitroglycerin doubles and triples and not have to stop or slow down at railroad crossings at all...


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## Randall Ave

From what I can see, you are in Montana? Learners permit at 15? As long as he is on your property nothen to worry bout. But since you have like 7 people per square mile, the chance of something happening is slim, unlike here in Jersey, 1200 people per square mile, can't swing a dead cat without hitten someone.


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## Randall Ave

Ajlawn1 said:


> We've been over this he call haul nitroglycerin doubles and triples and not have to stop or slow down at railroad crossings at all...


My father, in his day actually hauled nitro.


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## Ajlawn1

Randall Ave said:


> My father, in his day actually hauled nitro.


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## Randall Ave

Ajlawn1 said:


>


He said it was small amounts, and they hung it, or suspended it I guess. He hauled amuntions, all types of that stuff during the cold.


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## tpendagast

fireside said:


> Anytime AN motor vehicle used for the purpose of commerce is required to have a medical card there is no mention of weight or register as commercial use!!! The fine for no medical card is $125 yup it's true I know even got a copy from the prosecutor when I contested the ticket. So yes your normal car used to do business requires it


STATE law (and even municipal) can be more restrictive/require more than federal ; just not less. 
So your state may vary 
Just like speed limits 
Some states the limit is slower than others.


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## BossPlow2010

Randall Ave said:


> My father, in his day actually hauled nitro.


I carry it in case I have a grabber...


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## NYH1

I have a CDL class B and I'm medical card exempt! 

NYH1.


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## Randall Ave

tpendagast said:


> STATE law (and even municipal) can be more restrictive/require more than federal ; just not less.
> So your state may vary
> Just like speed limits
> Some states the limit is slower than others.


A lot of the local cops do not know the laws, I've asked them about the Med cards and DOT, he didn't know about the new laws. But the state police come to the local highways and will concentrate on the landscapers and smaller trucks above 10,000.


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## tpendagast

NYH1 said:


> I have a CDL class B and I'm medical card exempt!
> 
> NYH1.


Why?


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## NYH1

Op, states can have there own different regulations. Best bet would be stop by you Department of Motor Vehicles and ask them.

One thing here is certain. If you badmouth someone's mama, they might get mad. If you talk CDL or DOT....





NYH1.


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## NYH1

tpendagast said:


> Why?


In New Yorkistan, if you had your class B be before a certain date (not sure of the date), have a Intrastate License you don't have to the medical card.

My restrictions are-
A3- Med. Cert Exempt.
K- CDL Intrastate Only.

NYH1.


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## Mark Oomkes

#1 Gotta love the interweb...we all know that everything on it is true...Abe Lincoln said so.

#B I love how the feds introduced interstate exempt, intrastate exempt, interstate non-exempt and intrastate non-exempt with ZERO explanation. 

When they did, I got the letter stating "Pick one" within 30 days or your license will be yanked. I guessed. I guess every time I renew. I still don't understand why I have to bring my birth certificate with me every 4 years when I renew my license. I told the woman at the counter that my birthplace hasn't changed since the last time I renewed and won't change in the future. She shrugged her shoulders. Said it's a federal law\regulation\whatever. Nobody explained to them the differences between exempt and non-exempt either. 

The way I read it, I don't have to have a med card. But if you read the over 10K thing, I do.


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## Defcon 5

BossPlow2010 said:


> I carry it in case I have a grabber...


Me to-too-two


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## FredG

BossPlow2010 said:


> I carry it in case I have a grabber...


 What if your diving? :laugh:


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## leolkfrm

NYH1 said:


> I have a CDL class B and I'm medical card exempt!
> 
> NYH1.


that makes you a FOG


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## FredG

leolkfrm said:


> that makes you a FOG


 I guess you don't need the physical if you drive under a certain amount of miles.


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## NYH1

leolkfrm said:


> that makes you a FOG


That's not very nice....I have feeling too! 

NYH1.


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## NYH1

FredG said:


> I guess you don't need the physical if you drive under a certain amount of miles.


Nothing to do with how many miles you drive. It's where you drive those miles.

NYH1.


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## Randall Ave

NYH1 said:


> Nothing to do with how many miles you drive. It's where you drive those miles.
> 
> NYH1.


I can see the lights of the strip club from my shop. So not far.


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## NYH1

Randall Ave said:


> I can see the lights of the strip club from my shop. So not far.


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## leolkfrm

FredG said:


> I guess you don't need the physical if you drive under a certain amount of miles.


no, only fog can get the exemption because they got it before 96....can drive commercial anywhere within the state boundaries


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## leigh

Don James said:


> I have dot numbers. The truck and plow are in my signature. I read on internet Massachusetts drivers need cdl license. Didn't make sense to me but I like to be legit. I appreciate the responses.


 Here you go - little more info here that pertains to Mass .


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## fireside

What I don’t get is a CDL. Is a federal law. When and how are very clear.


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## Mark Oomkes

fireside said:


> What I don't get is a CDL. Is a federal law. When and how are very clear.


What I don't get is why it has to be so confusing. If a law and its explanation can't fit on one page, it shouldn't be passed.


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## thelettuceman

prezek said:


> Another debate...Maryland medical card for anything over 10k. Intrastate included.


Maryland also taxes the rain.....just sayin'
No CDL needed to pay your taxes:usflag:


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## leolkfrm

think about it...it is federal dot controlled by the states duh!


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## cjames808

None of us have ever been asked for medical cards in non cdl trucks. Troopers, sheriffs, commercial enforcement police.


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## 1olddogtwo

We have over 450 employees, 63 DOT vehicles. 

All under 26K expect the 550's (45 to 50K) when pulling traliers....all of our employees have DOT cards.

Simply put any vehicle (used commercially) over 10,001, that driver needs a medical card, as well as a vehicle inspection. That vehicle should have three triangles and a secure fire extinguisher.

We've been thru quite a lot vehicle inspections, weight stations, roadside, etc. 

We also use ELDs.

Does a F350 SRW and a 14K trailer need a CDL?

Or a F350 DRW and a 14K trailer need a CDL?


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## Mark Oomkes

1olddogtwo said:


> Does a F350 SRW and a 14K trailer need a CDL?


Gooseneck or bumper pull?



1olddogtwo said:


> Or a F350 DRW and a 14K trailer need a CDL?


Bumper pull or gooseneck?


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## 1olddogtwo

Mark Oomkes said:


> Gooseneck or bumper pull?
> 
> Bumper pull or gooseneck?


Irrelevant or your choice

Same if loaded or not.


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## Ajlawn1

Beavertails need medical cards and doves don't...


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## Mark Oomkes

What year F350?


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## Mark Oomkes

Ajlawn1 said:


> Beavertails need medical cards and doves don't...


Very happy I have all dovetails...


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## 1olddogtwo

Mark Oomkes said:


> What year F350?


Believe it or not that's actually a legitimate question.

Off the top of my head I'm going to say 99 and newer


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## Mark Oomkes

1olddogtwo said:


> Believe it or not that's actually a legitimate question.


I know...

I wouldn't with my '02...has the same GVWR as my RAM 2500 Cummings.


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## fireside

1olddogtwo said:


> We have over 450 employees, 63 DOT vehicles.
> 
> All under 26K expect the 550's (45 to 50K) when pulling traliers....all of our employees have DOT cards.
> 
> Simply put any vehicle (used commercially) over 10,001, that driver needs a medical card, as well as a vehicle inspection. That vehicle should have three triangles and a secure fire extinguisher.
> 
> We've been thru quite a lot vehicle inspections, weight stations, roadside, etc.
> 
> We also use ELDs.
> 
> Does a F350 SRW and a 14K trailer need a CDL?
> 
> Or a F350 DRW and a 14K trailer need a CDL?


Well both are towing trailers over 10,001 so yes both CDL. One also has a combined weight over 26k too


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## Mark Oomkes

fireside said:


> Well both are towing trailers over 10,001 so yes both CDL.


Not necessarily...



fireside said:


> One also has a combined weight over 26k too


You're contradicting yourself.


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## 1olddogtwo

fireside said:


> Well both are towing trailers over 10,001 so yes both CDL. One also has a combined weight over 26k too


1st thing to look at is the GCWR of the combo....

F350 SRW is (MAX) 11,500 plus a 14k tralier. Both under 26K, no CDL needed.

The F350 DRW is 14K (GVW) plus the 14K trailer so the GCWR is 28K, CDL required.

F550(19,500)with a dual axle of trailer 10,000 no CDL need cause trailer under 10,001 lbs.

I order F350 SRW's for work that are derated to 10k and trailers @ 16k.

Both under 26k, no CDL needed, safety, DOT card and paperwork, ELD....good to go.


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## fireside

All good points 550 trucks have gone away around here do to combine weight. Landscapers cant tow a 7000 lb trailer even. 

You think this is confusing. In ct you must use a rated component to attach ANYTHING TO motor vehicles! Each point not rated is 125 fine. Define rated


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## 1olddogtwo

Pic of my newest tralier, ordering 3 more next week.

One will be a 14K derated to 9990


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## fireside

What’s the light weight of that trailer? I found de rating never helped with the heavier trailer construction. You could haul more on a real 10k trailer.


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## 1olddogtwo

That trailer is a 16K, unloaded is 5100, loaded in the pics is 14500

The derated one can be pulled with the 650/550 without CDL.

Pic of our new Rollback.


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## 1olddogtwo

fireside said:


> What's the light weight of that trailer? I found de rating never helped with the heavier trailer construction. You could haul more on a real 10k trailer.


Dare take a guess at the weight of this?


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## m_ice

1olddogtwo said:


> Dare take a guess at the weight of this?
> 
> View attachment 188501
> 
> 
> View attachment 188502
> 
> 
> View attachment 188503


under a CDL for sure...


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## Don James

Got medical certificate renewed today. blood pressure check,eye test,urine test,measured my neck and listened to my chest with stethoscope. Good for 2 years now! 50 bucks was not too bad either.


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## 1olddogtwo

Damn, that's cheap, I have to pay her extra for that.

No bend over and cough? 

No cold hands checking for hernias?


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## Randall Ave

1olddogtwo said:


> Dare take a guess at the weight of this?
> 
> View attachment 188501
> 
> 
> View attachment 188502
> 
> 
> View attachment 188503


Best guess, 38250.


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## 1olddogtwo

Randall Ave said:


> Best guess, 38250.


Payload?

Cat scale was 55700.

The truck/tralier is 26k unloaded.


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## Mark Oomkes

1olddogtwo said:


> Dare take a guess at the weight of this?
> 
> View attachment 188501
> 
> 
> View attachment 188502
> 
> 
> View attachment 188503


File fotos...


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## Don James

1olddogtwo said:


> Damn, that's cheap, I have to pay her extra for that.
> 
> No bend over and cough?
> 
> No cold hands checking for hernias?


Nope no bend over cough or hernia check.


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## 1olddogtwo

Mark Oomkes said:


> File fotos...


Nothing gets past you....:dancing::laugh::waving:


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## leolkfrm

thats cheap, ive been paying 65


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## Randall Ave

Don James said:


> Got medical certificate renewed today. blood pressure check,eye test,urine test,measured my neck and listened to my chest with stethoscope. Good for 2 years now! 50 bucks was not too bad either.


I think I just paid 120.00 here, for 50 bucks, did he walk around you twice shakking his shrunken head, then say, you good. Thumbs Up


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## Philbilly2

Edit: Sorry clarity on this one sucks let me try again


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## Philbilly2

Hopefully this will show up better.


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## Ajlawn1

So I need to make sure my guys know to all tell the cop...


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## fireside

1olddogtwo said:


> Dare take a guess at the weight of this?
> 
> View attachment 188501
> 
> 
> View attachment 188502
> 
> 
> View attachment 188503


Boy that one hell of a trailer. Why not move up to a bigger truck hauling all that weight? What do you do those look like large drying units.


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## Philbilly2

fireside said:


> What do you do those look like large drying units.


What does Pat do with them???

He just hauls them back and forth across the lower 48 and snapchats people his adventures


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## Mark Oomkes

I need to get SnapGram to hear more of his stories?


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> I need to get SnapGram to hear more of his stories?


It is entertaining on a bored day... which it sounds like you have been having a few of them.

Pat is quite the singer turns out... :laugh:


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> Pat is quite the singer turns out... :laugh:


Guess I won't be getting InstaChat...


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Guess I won't be getting InstaChat...


I felt that it was my public service duty to warn you... :laugh:


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> I felt that it was my public service duty to warn you... :laugh:


And I appreciate it...some of the texts are more than I need to see.

Guess 3 of us old fogies just get his texts...


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## 1olddogtwo

fireside said:


> Boy that one hell of a trailer. Why not move up to a bigger truck hauling all that weight? What do you do those look like large drying units.


I was mobilizing from hurricane Florence to hurricane Michael.

The other 8 units I had shipped on one of our semi trailers..... besides it's a 550 with a PSD 6.7.

That trailer is brand new and rated @ 37.5, disc brakes, hydraulic monster jacks, upper deck, ratchet rails.

Those are 5000 CFM desiccant dehumidifiers, pump out 120F and 5%H.

Our 15000 CFM's weight in at 12K each.


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## 1olddogtwo

Philbilly2 said:


> It is entertaining on a bored day... which it sounds like you have been having a few of them.
> 
> Pat is quite the singer turns out... :laugh:


I'll be on the road tomorrow from Indy and to KC on Sunday.... Any karaoke songs you like to hear?


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## 1olddogtwo

I should work on getting my hazmat, those white tanks are Transcubes, they hold 750 gals of fuel.


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## Philbilly2

1olddogtwo said:


> I'll be on the road tomorrow from Indy and to KC on Sunday.... Any karaoke songs you like to hear?


How about "Be quite and drive far away" by the Deftones? :laugh:


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## Philbilly2

Or 
"The sound of silence" by Simon and Garfunkel


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## 1olddogtwo

Very doable


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## 1olddogtwo

Philbilly2 said:


> Or
> "The sound of silence" by Simon and Garfunkel


I prefer Disturbed






Hello silence my old friend.


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## Philbilly2




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## Philbilly2

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Randall Ave

Philbilly2 said:


> Or
> "The sound of silence" by Simon and Garfunkel


My freshman year in High school, in English class we had to study and do a report on them. That was 1973. Now I would say that teacher was quite the liberal.


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## 1olddogtwo

Philbilly2 said:


> :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


You did not like my rendition of sounds of silence?

LoL

I should have expected that from a Chevy guy.


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## Philbilly2

1olddogtwo said:


> You did not like my rendition of sounds of silence?
> 
> LoL
> 
> I should have expected that from a Chevy guy.


It was an "Epic Game Changer" for my lunch...


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## TwiceStroked

FredG said:


> In NYS I need a cdl in my Furd ranger, with a 5000lb gvw trailer. Oh plus the air brake endorsement and haz mat. Not to mention my driver physical.


Tanker and Coil too!!


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## FredG

TwiceStroked said:


> Tanker and Coil too!!


 These CDL threads don't normally go well. :laugh: Not to mention the rules are confusing and seem like something changes all the time. Last change was to my advantage. Phil or - and Oomkes straightened me up.


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## tmlawncare

FredG said:


> You don't need a medical car under CDL limits. Yes DOT numbers may be required.


If the truck is over 10000 give you need a med card or if combined weight is over 10000lbs


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## NYH1

tmlawncare said:


> If the truck is over 10000 give you need a med card or if combined weight is over 10000lbs


What? I thought it was 26K. Me being med. card exempt I haven't paid much attention lately.

NYH1.


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## leigh

tmlawncare said:


> If the truck is over 10000 give you need a med card or if combined weight is over 10000lbs


 Maybe not, have to check out what your state requires. https://www.jjkeller.com/learn/driver-qualification-hiring-faqs


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## FredG

tmlawncare said:


> If the truck is over 10000 give you need a med card or if combined weight is over 10000lbs


 SKW.


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## Philbilly2

tmlawncare said:


> If the truck is over 10000 give you need a med card or if combined weight is over 10000lbs





NYH1 said:


> What? I thought it was 26K. Me being med. card exempt I haven't paid much attention lately.
> 
> NYH1.





leigh said:


> Maybe not, have to check out what your state requires. https://www.jjkeller.com/learn/driver-qualification-hiring-faqs





FredG said:


> SKW.


He is correct... at least in Illinois for sure.

The last time that I was DOT check, I was informed by Illinois State Police Truck Enforcement that any CMV with a GVWR of 10,000 plus or a combined GCWR of 10,000 plus need a medical card.

With or without a CDL does not matter...

Got a ticket for that too :laugh:


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## FredG

Philbilly2 said:


> He is correct... at least in Illinois for sure.
> 
> The last time that I was DOT check, I was informed by Illinois State Police Truck Enforcement that any CMV with a GVWR of 10,000 plus or a combined GCWR of 10,000 plus need a medical card.
> 
> With or without a CDL does not matter...
> 
> Got a ticket for that too :laugh:


 I don't think he is correct here, I'm not arguing I been wrong before on that subject. :laugh:


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## m_ice

Where's the dead horse emoji???


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## John_DeereGreen

Philbilly2 said:


> He is correct... at least in Illinois for sure.
> 
> The last time that I was DOT check, I was informed by Illinois State Police Truck Enforcement that any CMV with a GVWR of 10,000 plus or a combined GCWR of 10,000 plus need a medical card.
> 
> With or without a CDL does not matter...
> 
> Got a ticket for that too :laugh:


Same in OH.


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## Randall Ave

FredG said:


> I don't think he is correct here, I'm not arguing I been wrong before on that subject. :laugh:


It's like that here now also. Any commercial vehicle over 10,000, you need a Medical card, and DOT numbers.


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## theplowmeister

In MA over 10000 need med card and DOT numbers


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## Mark Oomkes

I wonder if those states require it because it's a FEDERAL requirement???


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## Philbilly2

m_ice said:


> Where's the dead horse emoji???





Mark Oomkes said:


> I wonder if those states require it because it's a FEDERAL requirement???


Nope... that is not it...


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## Randall Ave

Philbilly2 said:


> Nope... that is not it...


There ya go!!!


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> I wonder if those states require it because it's a FEDERAL requirement???


Sadly it is the first line in the FMCSA section about medical card requirements..

_All commercial drivers of vehicles in interstate commerce with a maximum gross vehicle weight rating of over 10,000 pounds (4,536 kilograms) are required to obtain and maintain a valid Medical Examiner's Certificate (ME Certificate)_
_
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-license/medical_


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## Don James

I notice that most companies around here in Massachusetts don’t even bother with dot compliance. Over 90 percent of the guys in business for themselves like me don’t even believe it’s the law. When I tell them they need a medical card and dot numbers they look at me like I’m crazy. I know it’s the law because I found out by accident through my insurance company. I don’t believe cops are even enforcing these rules.


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## leigh

Philbilly2 said:


> Sadly it is the first line in the FMCSA section about medical card requirements..
> 
> _All commercial drivers of vehicles in "_*interstate "*_commerce with a maximum gross vehicle weight rating of over 10,000 pounds (4,536 kilograms) are required to obtain and maintain a valid Medical Examiner's Certificate (ME Certificate)
> 
> https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-license/medical_


For _*intrastate*_ drivers, it depends on what the state has adopted for the weight criterion. A number of states use the same 10,001-pound criterion as is found in the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations. Other states have increased the weight limit to anywhere from 12,000 pounds up to 26,001 pounds (which does coincide with the CDL requirements)


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## Philbilly2

Don James said:


> I notice that most companies around here in Massachusetts don't even bother with dot compliance. Over 90 percent of the guys in business for themselves like me don't even believe it's the law. When I tell them they need a medical card and dot numbers they look at me like I'm crazy. I know it's the law because I found out by accident through my insurance company. I don't believe cops are even enforcing these rules.


Typically you will need a state DOT officer to write these tickets. Your local county mounties typically are not up to date on truck enforcement


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## Murphygeneral

leolkfrm said:


> not as long as the truck gvwr is under 26000, might need dot numbers


Yes in mass u do need dot numbers if it is a commercial truck


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## Philbilly2

leigh said:


> For _*intrastate*_ drivers, it depends on what the state has adopted for the weight criterion. A number of states use the same 10,001-pound criterion as is found in the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations. Other states have increased the weight limit to anywhere from 12,000 pounds up to 26,001 pounds (which does coincide with the CDL requirements)


Yes


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## MSsnowplowing

fireside said:


> Anytime AN motor vehicle used for the purpose of commerce is required to have a medical card there is no mention of weight or register as commercial use!!! The fine for no medical card is $125 yup it's true I know even got a copy from the prosecutor when I contested the ticket. So yes your normal car used to do business requires it


Was your truck over 18,000 pounds or were you towing with over 18,000 pounds because CT DOT states: 
Intrastate carriers operate under the same rules as interstate carriers with two exceptions: 1) The regulations for intrastate vehicles apply when the GVWR or GCWR is 18,001 pounds or greater.

http://www.ct.gov/dmv/LIB/dmv/20/29/mch.pdf

What exactly did the copy from the prosecutor say?

I think you were railroaded


----------



## MSsnowplowing

Don James said:


> Massachusetts anything over 10001 used in inter or intrastate commerce requires dot numbers and medical cards Used to not need dot numbers for the intrastate work but they changed the law effective 9/1/18 to now require dot certification. Can't get away with anything in this state.


In essence, the Commonwealth has adopted the majority of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations as its own. Here is a description of what the MA DOT *considers to be a "commercial vehicle:"*

A motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more used for the transportation of property, or
A motor vehicle designed to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, or
A motor vehicle used in the transportation of hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placarding under the Federal Hazardous Materials Transportation Act.
http://www.sullivanif.com/index.aspx?sid=31485&tp=0&cd=1000&mid=131211&ds=ma-dot-changes-business

If your towing your correct and need it all, but if your just plowing snow, that doesn't fall under the guide lines and you don't need a medical card.

Think about this, a F350 weighs around 8,000 pounds, add on a plow your looking at around 9,000 to 9,500 depending on the plow.

Under the limit of that 10,000 pounds.


----------



## Don James

MSsnowplowing said:


> In essence, the Commonwealth has adopted the majority of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations as its own. Here is a description of what the MA DOT *considers to be a "commercial vehicle:"*
> 
> A motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more used for the transportation of property, or
> A motor vehicle designed to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, or
> A motor vehicle used in the transportation of hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placarding under the Federal Hazardous Materials Transportation Act.
> http://www.sullivanif.com/index.aspx?sid=31485&tp=0&cd=1000&mid=131211&ds=ma-dot-changes-business
> 
> If your towing your correct and need it all, but if your just plowing snow, that doesn't fall under the guide lines and you don't need a medical card.
> 
> Think about this, a F350 weighs around 8,000 pounds, add on a plow your looking at around 9,000 to 9,500 depending on the plow.
> 
> Under the limit of that 10,000 pounds.


In Massachusetts if you use your truck for interstate or intrastate commerce than you need a medical card. Plowing is intrastate commerce. I checked with the registry and contacted dot.


----------



## Don James

tth


----------



## NYH1

leigh said:


> Maybe not, have to check out what your state requires. https://www.jjkeller.com/learn/driver-qualification-hiring-faqs





MSsnowplowing said:


> In essence, the Commonwealth has adopted the majority of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations as its own. Here is a description of what the MA DOT *considers to be a "commercial vehicle:"*
> 
> A motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more used for the transportation of property, or
> A motor vehicle designed to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, or
> A motor vehicle used in the transportation of hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placarding under the Federal Hazardous Materials Transportation Act.
> http://www.sullivanif.com/index.aspx?sid=31485&tp=0&cd=1000&mid=131211&ds=ma-dot-changes-business
> 
> If your towing your correct and need it all, but if your just plowing snow, that doesn't fall under the guide lines and you don't need a medical card.
> 
> Think about this, a F350 weighs around 8,000 pounds, add on a plow your looking at around 9,000 to 9,500 depending on the plow.
> 
> Under the limit of that 10,000 pounds.


It doesn't go by the actual weight of your truck, trailer and/or plow while using them. It go's by your registered GVWR and/or GCWR.

NYH1.


----------



## NYH1

Mark Oomkes said:


> I wonder if those states require it because it's a FEDERAL requirement???


States must have some leeway. I have a class B intrastate license and I'm med card exempt. My has the same license as me.

NYH1.


----------



## Don James

NYH1 said:


> It doesn't go by the actual weight of your truck, trailer and/or plow while using them. It go's by your registered GVWR and/or GCWR.
> 
> NYH1.


Exactly my GVWR is 11200k. That puts me over that 10001k.


----------



## theplowmeister

NYH1 said:


> States must have some leeway. I have a class B intrastate license and I'm med card exempt. My has the same license as me.
> 
> NYH1.


As long as you do NOT cross a state line states have ALL kinds of leeway. Cross a state line and it is FED regulated


----------



## NYH1

theplowmeister said:


> As long as you do NOT cross a state line states have ALL kinds of leeway. Cross a state line and it is FED regulated


Most DOT laws are federally regulated whether you cross state lines or not. We're just talking about entry level med. card requirements in this latest edition of as the CDL world turns.

NYH1.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

None of this is relevant to me, but if stopped, I'd certainly argue that your plow trucks aren't used for the transportation of property and thus (1) doesn't apply. When you start towing mowers in the summer, that's a different story.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Aerospace Eng said:


> None of this is relevant to me, but if stopped, I'd certainly argue that your plow trucks aren't used for the transportation of property and thus (1) doesn't apply. When you start towing mowers in the summer, that's a different story.


But they are being used in commerce=commercial vehicle.


----------



## NYH1

My way of thinking is, if it doesn't affect Joey Baggawalnuts using his 11k lbs. plus GVWR F350 to tow his 10/12/14k lbs. boat/travel trailer/car hauler on the weekends....it shouldn't affect me for any reason either. 

Most of it's done for the sole purpose of the many governmental agencies involved making money at business owners expense. 

If you kind folks would make me President for a day, I'd change it....and we'd get belt feeds too, make mine a Mk48! Thumbs Up

NYH1.


----------



## Philbilly2

NYH1 said:


> My way of thinking is, if it doesn't affect Joey Baggawalnuts using his 11k lbs. plus GVWR F350 to tow his 10/12/14k lbs. boat/travel trailer/car hauler on the weekends....it shouldn't affect me for any reason either.
> 
> Most of it's done for the sole purpose of the many governmental agencies involved making money at business owners expense.
> 
> If you kind folks would make me President for a day, I'd change it....and we'd get belt feeds too, make mine a Mk48! Thumbs Up
> 
> NYH1.


Travel trailer is out of this discussion as RV plate rules are insanely loose so let's keep that out of this.

Depends on how power unit it is registered.

Personal use in Joey's name... no med card.

If it is registered in a company name, if the gvwr is over 10,000lbs, Joey has to have to have a med card even towing his boat (At least in Illinois)


----------



## FredG

NYH1 said:


> States must have some leeway. I have a class B intrastate license and I'm med card exempt. My has the same license as me.
> 
> NYH1.


 How do you acquire that med exempt card. They took me off every 3 years down to 1 year, I'm afraid next time it will be every 6 months. I heard of the Guys with exempt but don't know the requirements.


----------



## MSsnowplowing

Don James said:


> tth
> View attachment 189919
> 
> 
> View attachment 189920


I would have a problem with that because that is not the Federal guidelines.

Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations

A motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more used for the transportation of property, or
A motor vehicle designed to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, or
A motor vehicle used in the transportation of hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placarding under the Federal Hazardous Materials Transportation Act.
rating of 10,001 pounds or more used for the transportation of property

rating of 10,001 pounds or more used for the transportation of property

Seems Mass forgot to put the transportation part in that little picture.

If they are following federal guidelines then they need to change that.

Your driving a F350 and doing residential driveways and they want you to get a Dot number, medical card, drug test, special safety equipment, additional inspections, etc...

What this is all about is simply the state shaking down people for more money.

And this is why we need a representative to fight these kind of things.

Edit:
Federal definition states vehicle used to transport passengers or property. 
*Commercial Motor Vehicles*
Definition: Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or
property when the vehicle --
(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (*10,001 pounds*)
or more, whichever is greater; or
(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 *and transported in a quantity* *requiring placarding *under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.


----------



## MSsnowplowing

NYH1 said:


> It doesn't go by the actual weight of your truck, trailer and/or plow while using them. It go's by your registered GVWR and/or GCWR.
> 
> NYH1.


Get pulled over by DOT with a plow and overloaded sander and you will soon find out that is not the case.

If your GVWR is say 11,500 for your truck and you have a plow and a sander filled and your weight is say 12,500, DOT will fine you in CT for being overweight by 1,000 pounds if they pull you over.

I know guys that got hefty fines for being over the limit and they made them dump the product till they were under.

One reason why I put a aluminum bed on the back of my truck and use a western tornado sander, they weigh a lot less and I don't have to worry about going over the weight limit just in case.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

MSsnowplowing said:


> Get pulled over by DOT with a plow and overloaded sander and you will soon find out that is not the case.
> 
> If your GVWR is say 11,500 for your truck and you have a plow and a sander filled and your weight is say 12,500, DOT will fine you in CT for being overweight by 1,000 pounds if they pull you over.
> 
> I know guys that got hefty fines for being over the limit and they made them dump the product till they were under.
> 
> One reason why I put a aluminum bed on the back of my truck and use a western tornado sander, they weigh a lot less and I don't have to worry about going over the weight limit just in case.


NYH1 is correct...you are talking about something entirely different.

I can plate a truck for 80,000. Doesn't mean I can load it to 80,000 if the GVWR is 36,000.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> NYH1 is correct...you are talking about something entirely different.
> 
> I can plate a truck for 80,000. Doesn't mean I can load it to 80,000 if the GVWR is 36,000.


So can I plate my 33k gvw truck at 26k gvw...? Axeing for a friend...


----------



## MSsnowplowing

Mark Oomkes said:


> NYH1 is correct...you are talking about something entirely different.
> 
> I can plate a truck for 80,000. Doesn't mean I can load it to 80,000 if the GVWR is 36,000.


We are along the same lines.

I agree we do need some regulation, we don't want to see a f-150 trying to tow a 15,000 pound machine tied down with bungee cords on a trailer rated for 12,000 pounds.

But forcing a guy who plows with a truck that is rated over 10,000 -(pretty much all heavy duty trucks) to get DOT numbers, medical certificate and everything else is plain crazy and for states that are doing this it is just to get more money out of small business owners.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ajlawn1 said:


> So can I plate my 33k gvw truck at 26k gvw...? Axeing for a friend...


Go ahead.


----------



## Don James

Lots of landscaping guys around here think they’re exempt from DOT regulations because their driving half tons and 3/4 tons whose gvwr is under 10001lbs. But when their hooked to a trailer their combined weight is over. I’m curious to see how much these regulations are enforced. Big pita if you ask me. I only operate intrastate and never had to deal with any of this before my state changed it all.


----------



## NYH1

Philbilly2 said:


> Travel trailer is out of this discussion as RV plate rules are insanely loose so let's keep that out of this.
> 
> Depends on how power unit it is registered.
> 
> Personal use in Joey's name... no med card.
> 
> If it is registered in a company name, if the gvwr is over 10,000lbs, Joey has to have to have a med card even towing his boat (At least in Illinois)


My parents have a travel trailer, in New Yorkistan towing it is the same as towing a boat or anything else as long as-
The truck and trailer combo doesn't go over 26k lbs. if the trailer is over 10k lbs.
Or the truck can be 26k lbs. if the trailer is no more then 10k lbs.

As long as the above is for personal use, no med card needed. Which I think it should be, either you need a med card or you don't need a med card. Shouldn't matter what you're doing.

NYH1.


----------



## NYH1

FredG said:


> How do you acquire that med exempt card. They took me off every 3 years down to 1 year, I'm afraid next time it will be every 6 months. I heard of the Guys with exempt but don't know the requirements.


I got a letter from the DMV back around 2015 I think, my dad did too. I/we had to go into our local DMV office and have what I had at the time (CDL Class B Interstate) changed to CDL Class B Intrastate in order to keep my CDL with no med card. It took about 5 minutes to have done.

NYH1.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

NYH1 said:


> My parents have a travel trailer, in New Yorkistan towing it is the same as towing a boat or anything else as long as-
> The truck and trailer combo doesn't go over 26k lbs. if the trailer is over 10k lbs.
> Or the truck can be 26k lbs. if the trailer is no more then 10k lbs.
> 
> As long as the above is for personal use, no med card needed. Which I think it should be, either you need a med card or you don't need a med card. Shouldn't matter what you're doing.
> 
> NYH1.


My personal feeling is similar. No CDL exemptions, no medical card exemptions, everyone follows the same rules. Personal use, commercial use, doesn't matter. Why is it any more safe for grandpa in Commiefornia to take his diesel pusher and hook it to a tri axle enclosed trailer and pull a race car around on a normal license than it is for me to put a skid steer on a 14k trailer behind an F350?

Same thing for firefighters. And EMT's. And farmers. Sorry, but weight is weight, shouldn't matter what you're doing with it.


----------



## NYH1

Fred, I've heard the grandfathered CDL B, Intrastate med. card exempt licenses like ours, might be going away. Meaning everyone with one will need a med. card no matter what. I haven't seen it posted anywhere and the gals at the my local DMV haven't heard about any changes.

If or when I get something in the mail regarding it, I'll address it. 

NYH1.


----------



## NYH1

MSsnowplowing said:


> Your driving a F350 and doing residential driveways and they want you to get a Dot number, medical card, drug test, special safety equipment, additional inspections, etc...


It doesn't matter what type of driveways or lots you're plowing. If you do them for free, you don't need any of the above. If you're paid for doing them, you need all the above. Isn't that nice!



MSsnowplowing said:


> What this is all about is simply the state shaking down people for more money.


Couldn't agree more.



MSsnowplowing said:


> And this is why we need a representative to fight these kind of things.


Couldn't agree more....again!

NYH1.


----------



## NYH1

MSsnowplowing said:


> Get pulled over by DOT with a plow and overloaded sander and you will soon find out that is not the case.
> 
> If your GVWR is say 11,500 for your truck and you have a plow and a sander filled and your weight is say 12,500, DOT will fine you in CT for being overweight by 1,000 pounds if they pull you over.


I know how it works, I've been through many DOT checks and been on the scales plenty of times.

In one post you mentioned the _actual weight_ of a truck and plow being under 10k lbs., I assume meaning you shouldn't need a med. card because of that. I simply said, it doesn't go by the actual weight of your truck at any one given time for the required med. card. It go's by your truck's GVWR/registered weight.

Then you replied the above to say what I said wasn't the case. Two separate issues my friend.

NYH1.


----------



## Randall Ave

If the cop knows what he is doing, the locals mostly do not know commercial stuff. The door tag tells it all, then what did you register it for. I have a customer with a F550 Ford, hes only registered for like 6000lbs. Only a matter of time. If the cop really wants to be a Ricky. If your registered for say 8000lbs. Door tag is 13,000. Your loaded, he gets out the scales and weighs you. You get an over weight ticket for anything over the 8000.


----------



## NYH1

Randall Ave said:


> If the cop knows what he is doing, the locals mostly do not know commercial stuff. The door tag tells it all, then what did you register it for. I have a customer with a F550 Ford, hes only registered for like 6000lbs. Only a matter of time. If the cop really wants to be a Ricky. If your registered for say 8000lbs. Door tag is 13,000. Your loaded, he gets out the scales and weighs you. You get an over weight ticket for anything over the 8000.


Yeah, I don't know anything about registering a truck for anything other then what the GVWR on the door sticker says. Either the dealer takes care of my registration and plates when buying new. Or I take the title to the DMV and they register it to what the GVWR says on the title.

I don't know if you can register a vehicle in New Yorkistan for anything other then what the title/GVWR sticker on the door says. Someone else will have to chime in on that.

NYH1.


----------



## leigh

Randall Ave said:


> If the cop knows what he is doing, the locals mostly do not know commercial stuff. The door tag tells it all, then what did you register it for. I have a customer with a F550 Ford, hes only registered for like 6000lbs. Only a matter of time. If the cop really wants to be a Ricky. If your registered for say 8000lbs. Door tag is 13,000. Your loaded, he gets out the scales and weighs you. You get an over weight ticket for anything over the 8000.


 Happened to me ,friendly dmv clerk suggests I register my 12k dump at 9999 and get combo plates rather than commercial. I get pulled over by a town cop (wilton ct,one of the few that got trained in truck enforcement, Nazis ) and end up with a 1650$ overweight ticket, go to court and get it knocked down to 825$ Its a crap shoot,today I'm rolling with 5 tons in my 4500,can barely feel it, get weighed and I'm in the slammer !


----------



## Mark Oomkes

NYH1 said:


> Yeah, I don't know anything about registering a truck for anything other then what the GVWR on the door sticker says. Either the dealer takes care of my registration and plates when buying new. Or I take the title to the DMV and they register it to what the GVWR says on the title.
> 
> I don't know if you can register a vehicle in New Yorkistan for anything other then what the title/GVWR sticker on the door says. Someone else will have to chime in on that.
> 
> NYH1.


What if you hook up a trailer?


----------



## NYH1

Mark Oomkes said:


> What if you hook up a trailer?


Then I'll have to tow it I guess.

NYH1.


----------



## Philbilly2

NYH1 said:


> It doesn't matter what type of driveways or lots you're plowing. If you do them for free, you don't need any of the above. If you're paid for doing them, you need all the above. Isn't that nice!
> 
> NYH1.


You are wrong.

If your operating a CMV that has a gvwr over 10,000lbs it does not matter what your doing, free or not.

You had to drive on a public road to get there correct?

You can be minding your own business driving to the Walmart to pick up milk and if you are operating a CMV, you are operating a CMV.


----------



## Defcon 5

I have a CDL with The Triples with air brake endorsement plus the hazmat....Can I drive a “Large” salt truck with that license??


----------



## Philbilly2

Defcon 5 said:


> I have a CDL with The Triples with air brake endorsement plus the hazmat....Can I drive a "Large" salt truck with that license??


If the large salt truck has air brakes then no.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Defcon 5 said:


> I have a CDL with The Triples with air brake endorsement plus the hazmat....Can I drive a "Large" salt truck with that license??


Can you drive it or can you legally drive it?


----------



## AesSedai

NYH1 said:


> Yeah, I don't know anything about registering a truck for anything other then what the GVWR on the door sticker says. Either the dealer takes care of my registration and plates when buying new. Or I take the title to the DMV and they register it to what the GVWR says on the title.
> 
> I don't know if you can register a vehicle in New Yorkistan for anything other then what the title/GVWR sticker on the door says. Someone else will have to chime in on that.
> 
> NYH1.


You are correct. With trailers for example, if you want to register one as less of a GVWR so you don't go into he whole needing a CDL thing, we can call and get a title de-rated so they can register the trailer with the lower GVW- doesn't matter what the sticker says on the trailer at that point as the DOT goes by your reg. 
For example, if your trailer was originally rated with a 14k GVW and you get the title de-rated to 11k, you are only legally rated for that 11k as per your reg. 
I would imagine with a truck, you have the option to do the same thing. But yes, in NY, you can only register based off the title and that is what you are legally rated for.


----------



## NYH1

Philbilly2 said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> If your operating a CMV that has a gvwr over 10,000lbs it does not matter what your doing, free or not.
> 
> You had to drive on a public road to get there correct?
> 
> You can be minding your own business driving to the Walmart to pick up milk and if you are operating a CMV, you are operating a CMV.


I think you misunderstood what I was trying say, or I misspoke (or in this case mistyped).

If I _DO NOT_ have a business and I have a Ram 3500 with a 11,700 lbs. GVWR and I plow my driveway and my neighbors driveways not charging them because I'm not doing it for commerce, I wouldn't need DOT numbers or a med. card.

It wouldn't be a CMV because I wouldn't be using it for commerce. It's just a pickup truck with a plow on it.

NYH1.


----------



## Philbilly2

NYH1 said:


> I think you misunderstood what I was trying say, or I misspoke (or in this case mistyped).
> 
> If I _DO NOT_ have a business and I have a Ram 3500 with a 11,700 lbs. GVWR and I plow my driveway and my neighbors driveways not charging them because I'm not doing it for commerce, I wouldn't need DOT numbers or a med. card.
> 
> It wouldn't be a CMV because I wouldn't be using it for commerce. It's just a pickup truck with a plow on it.
> 
> NYH1.


10 4. I would agree. A personal truck that is registered to a personal name would not be a CMV... so no medical card.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

AesSedai said:


> You are correct. With trailers for example, if you want to register one as less of a GVWR so you don't go into he whole needing a CDL thing, we can call and get a title de-rated so they can register the trailer with the lower GVW- doesn't matter what the sticker says on the trailer at that point as the DOT goes by your reg.
> For example, if your trailer was originally rated with a 14k GVW and you get the title de-rated to 11k, you are only legally rated for that 11k as per your reg.
> I would imagine with a truck, you have the option to do the same thing. But yes, in NY, you can only register based off the title and that is what you are legally rated for.


Wrong. The VIN tag is what matters. The manufacturer says what the GVW is and makes it known for all that read the VIN tag, and without changing said VIN tag, it doesn't make a bit of difference what your title is "de rated" to.

Using your theory, I could "re rate" my F350 to 80k and use it as a semi. Which we all know can't/won't happen.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Registration of a vehicle does not define whether it is a CMV or not. My truck is titled and registered to my bizness. But if I'm traveling with the family it is not a CMV. And I do not fall under CMV or driver regulations.


----------



## leigh

John_DeereGreen said:


> Wrong. The VIN tag is what matters. The manufacturer says what the GVW is and makes it known for all that read the VIN tag, and without changing said VIN tag, it doesn't make a bit of difference what your title is "de rated" to.
> 
> Using your theory, I could "re rate" my F350 to 80k and use it as a semi. Which we all know can't/won't happen.


 I think it may be possible at a certified upfitter type shop,the guys that add tag axles etc.But that's a lot work.I just ordered my 15 k trailer and they tagged it at 10k ar factory.But that's a 2 edged sword,now I run overweight with my excavator,had to pick my poison,an overweight ticket ,or driving out of class. So far so good.I'm sure I'll be on here eventually crying the blues!


----------



## John_DeereGreen

leigh said:


> I think it may be possible at a certified upfitter type shop,the guys that add tag axles etc.But that's a lot work.I just ordered my 15 k trailer and they tagged it at 10k ar factory.But that's a 2 edged sword,now I run overweight with my excavator,had to pick my poison,an overweight ticket ,or driving out of class. So far so good.I'm sure I'll be on here eventually crying the blues!


Correct. The correct upfitter shop can change GVW, because they can legally change the VIN tag. They have to certify the upgrade or downgrade is legal etc but an upfitter changing it would be the same as it being that way factory.


----------



## NYH1

John_DeereGreen said:


> Wrong. The VIN tag is what matters. The manufacturer says what the GVW is and makes it known for all that read the VIN tag, and without changing said VIN tag, it doesn't make a bit of difference what your title is "de rated" to.
> 
> Using your theory, I could "re rate" my F350 to 80k and use it as a semi. Which we all know can't/won't happen.


I belong to a truck forum, kind of like this. Haven't been on it in a few years. There was this guy from I think Washington State that said he bought a new Ram 3500 DRW, 4x2 every two to three years to tow his 5th wheel travel trailer with the summer.

He said when he bought the new trucks, his DMV would register the trucks to any weight he wanted to them registered to. And that no matter what the GVWR on his door sticker said, the police/DOT went by his registered weight and not the door sticker. I always thought (and still do) that he was full of bovine excrement....not just for this.

It never made any sense to me. However, nothing like that ever affected me or anything I do/did so looking into it was at the extreme lowest level on my priority list.

NYH1.


----------



## NYH1

leigh said:


> I think it may be possible at a certified upfitter type shop,the guys that add tag axles etc.But that's a lot work.


This makes sense.



leigh said:


> I just ordered my 15 k trailer and they tagged it at 10k ar factory.But that's a 2 edged sword,now I run overweight with my excavator,had to pick my poison,an overweight ticket ,or driving out of class. So far so good.I'm sure I'll be on here eventually crying the blues!


Rolling the ole' DOT dice....good luck! 

NYH1.


----------



## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Registration of a vehicle does not define whether it is a CMV or not. My truck is titled and registered to my bizness. But if I'm traveling with the family it is not a CMV. And I do not fall under CMV or driver regulations.


U sure?

From what I have been told and what I have researched a CMV is a CMV.

If a truck is registered to a company, it is the commercial property of the company and therefor a CMV.

If I know you, you have some angle I am missing... what is it...out with it.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> U sure?
> 
> From what I have been told and what I have researched a CMV is a CMV.
> 
> If a truck is registered to a company, it is the commercial property of the company and therefor a CMV.
> 
> If I know you, you have some angle I am missing... what is it...out with it.


Well, if the truck isn't being used for commerce how is it a commercial vehicle?

On the flip side, if it is being used to generate revenue it is a commercial vehicle.

Same reason any idiot can drive a semi to move his household goods without a CDL. Personal use...no CDL required.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Well, if the truck isn't being used for commerce how is it a commercial vehicle?
> 
> On the flip side, if it is being used to generate revenue it is a commercial vehicle.
> 
> Same reason any idiot can drive a semi to move his household goods without a CDL. Personal use...no CDL required.


So.....If I'm driving the Catastar to move a lamp on Sunday for my wife...It somehow becomes NOT a commercial vehicle....I know you haven't been told much this in your life....Your Wrong


----------



## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Well, if the truck isn't being used for commerce how is it a commercial vehicle?
> 
> On the flip side, if it is being used to generate revenue it is a commercial vehicle.
> 
> Same reason any idiot can drive a semi to move his household goods without a CDL. Personal use...no CDL required.


Commercial vehicle I guess is the term that we are disputing.

I still believe that you are wrong. A CMV being operated on personal conveyance still has to operate within CMV rules and regs.

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-service/personal-conveyance-frequently-asked-questions-0










Correct... but that idiot needs an A class license to drive the semi. And if the semi is registered to a company typical use is commerce, I would bet 10 to 1 if DOT stops him, he will have a ticket for no med card if he does not have one. The officer will most likely tell him he will need to prove that ticket wrong in court.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Defcon 5 said:


> So.....If I'm driving the Catastar to move a lamp on Sunday for my wife...It somehow becomes NOT a commercial vehicle....I know you haven't been told much this in your life....Your Wrong


Moving a lamp could still be considered commercial... Taking her to Bob Evans you'd be ok...


----------



## Philbilly2

Defcon 5 said:


> So.....If I'm driving the Catastar to move a lamp on Sunday for my wife...It somehow becomes NOT a commercial vehicle....I know you haven't been told much this in your life....Your Wrong


Is this the catstar that you only drive to church on sundays and to card club every other Saturday???


----------



## Defcon 5

Ajlawn1 said:


> Moving a lamp could still be considered commercial... Taking her to Bob Evans you'd be ok...


I sure miss Bill Knapp's


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> I sure miss Bill Knapp's


Had one of their chocolate cakes for my birthday.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> Commercial vehicle I guess is the term that we are disputing.
> 
> I still believe that you are wrong. A CMV being operated on personal conveyance still has to operate within CMV rules and regs.
> 
> https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-service/personal-conveyance-frequently-asked-questions-0
> 
> View attachment 190056
> 
> 
> Correct... but that idiot needs an A class license to drive the semi. And if the semi is registered to a company typical use is commerce, I would bet 10 to 1 if DOT stops him, he will have a ticket for no med card if he does not have one. The officer will most likely tell him he will need to prove that ticket wrong in court.


What if I am hauling dirt to "my house" in a tractor and frameless dump and the tractor has a sleeper... Does this make it an RV since it has accommodating living quarters...?


----------



## Philbilly2

Ajlawn1 said:


> What if I am hauling dirt to "my house" in a tractor and frameless dump and the tractor has a sleeper... Does this make it and RV since it has accommodating living quarters...?


Now that is the outside of the box thinking I like!


----------



## Aerospace Eng

So here’s a mostly on topic question....

I’m planning on getting a small scissor lift to use in maintaining my hangars (one I can pick up and fork through the mandoors if the big door is stuck). I think I found one in OH I want to buy.

I could tow it with my SUV, but I was thinking about borrowing an F350 pickup to be safer. However, it has DOT numbers on the side, as it is a company truck. If I got stopped, would the officer write me a ticket for no med card or Class C CDL and just say take it up with the judge?

In my SUV, no. I’m over 10000 lb GCVWR, but obvious personal use....just towing personal stuff.

In a pickup towing a scissor lift with DOT numbers? I’m not being compensated, and don’t work for the company, but how would the officer know that, and why would he believe me?

If I cover the logo/numbers with something it seems like that would attract attention, and would it make a difference?.

I’m not really concerned, just curious.


----------



## Hydromaster

No, you are fine,
I've seen dot#on a Ford Focus

Pick what applies

You are required to obtain a USDOT number if you have a vehicle that:


Is used to transport the types and quantities of hazardous materials requiring a safety permit in intrastate commerce (see 49 CFR 385.403).
OR




Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation;
*AND is involved in Interstate commerce:*
Trade, traffic, or transportation in the United States-


Between a place in a State and a place outside of such State (including a place outside of the United States);
Between two places in a State through another State or a place outside of the United States; or
Between two places in a State as part of trade, traffic, or transportation originating or terminating outside the State or the United States.
You are required by FMCSA to obtain a USDOT Number and comply with the Federal Regulations.

The dot# styestem is geared toward safety
Not the weight of said vehicle or load.

All of the companies trucks I drive have dot#


----------



## Ajlawn1

Aerospace Eng said:


> So here's a mostly on topic question....
> 
> I'm planning on getting a small scissor lift to use in maintaining my hangars (one I can pick up and fork through the mandoors if the big door is stuck). I think I found one in OH I want to buy.
> 
> I could tow it with my SUV, but I was thinking about borrowing an F350 pickup to be safer. However, it has DOT numbers on the side, as it is a company truck. If I got stopped, would the officer write me a ticket for no med card or Class C CDL and just say take it up with the judge?
> 
> In my SUV, no. I'm over 10000 lb GCVWR, but obvious personal use....just towing personal stuff.
> 
> In a pickup towing a scissor lift with DOT numbers? I'm not being compensated, and don't work for the company, but how would the officer know that, and why would he believe me?
> 
> If I cover the logo/numbers with something it seems like that would attract attention, and would it make a difference?.
> 
> I'm not really concerned, just curious.


You lost me at on topic...

Its 10k GVWR on the trailer only... If its 14K then yes, if its 7K your fine... Plus I'm sure your SUV doesn't have a GVWR over 6K so you are way under any 26K GCWR...


----------



## Aerospace Eng

Not discussing a 10K trailer. I’m aware that under 26K truck with a 9999 lb trailer does not require a cdl under Federal rules.

It had to do with the 10,000 lb GCVW issue for transporting property discussed above.

i know I don’t need the license, but I was wondering about borrowing the pickup since it has DOT numbers. I was curious as to whether I would be asked for a medical card/class C CDL if stopped.

See Phillbilly’s post from 5:30 AM on Thursday.


----------



## MSsnowplowing

NYH1 said:


> I know how it works, I've been through many DOT checks and been on the scales plenty of times.
> 
> In one post you mentioned the _actual weight_ of a truck and plow being under 10k lbs., I assume meaning you shouldn't need a med. card because of that. I simply said, it doesn't go by the actual weight of your truck at any one given time for the required med. card. It go's by your truck's GVWR/registered weight.
> 
> Then you replied the above to say what I said wasn't the case. Two separate issues my friend.
> 
> NYH1.


I see what your saying.

There is no need for dot numbers, med certificate, etc... for someone just plowing snow in a one ton truck.

All it does is make it harder and more expensive for everyone and this business is hard enough at times.

Now if we are talking about towing, I see things that make me cringe at times. 
equipment not secured right, chains not hooked right, trucks towing heavy equipment flying down the highway doing over 70 mph, had a truck towing heavy equipment pass me while I was going 75 on my bike.

Maybe it's just me but when I'm towing, I like to go nice and easy and keep a minimum of 5 car lengths in front me just in case when I'm going the speed limit. 
I prefer the backroads for the lower speeds but that's not feasible sometimes.

What they really need to do is have classes on how to tow and if your going to tow then you have to take a class.


----------



## Hydromaster

Is the suv rated to pull or stop this load.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

Hydromaster said:


> Is the suv rated to pull or stop this load.


Yes. A small scissor lift is about 1800 lb.

6500 lb hitch rating. Trailer is rated at 7500.

Electric brakes, and I have a controller. I've used the combination to get stuff from my house to the airport and back.

I can pull the scissor lift with the SUV, and that's probably what I will do.

I would just feel better with the truck but the DOT numbers on the side gave me pause.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Aerospace Eng said:


> Not discussing a 10K trailer. I'm aware that under 26K truck with a 9999 lb trailer does not require a cdl under Federal rules.
> 
> It had to do with the 10,000 lb GCVW issue for transporting property discussed above.
> 
> i know I don't need the license, but I was wondering about borrowing the pickup since it has DOT numbers. I was curious as to whether I would be asked for a medical card/class C CDL if stopped.
> 
> See Phillbilly's post from 5:30 AM on Thursday.


I didn't say you needed a cdl... If your GVWR of the trailer is over 10K you do is the point that's why I asked about the trailer... If your trailer GVWR is 7500 you are fine... But if your trailer is 7500 the max GVWR on the tow vehicle is 18,500 before needing a CDL...

But no matter on everything if its combo or single GVWR over 10k looks like you technically need a med card... Then it mostly comes down to the interpretation of interstate commerce...

*Who is required to have a DQ file?*
The driver's qualification (DQ) file is often thought to go hand-in-hand with the commercial driver's license (CDL). This misperception has created confusion for many carriers. For interstate drivers, the need for a DQ file is based on the size and type of vehicle being driven. The applicable definition of commercial motor vehicle (per §390.5) includes both CDL and non-CDL drivers alike. Intrastate drivers would need to look at state-specific regulations to determine applicability.

Individuals operating the following vehicles in interstate commerce need to have a completed DQ file:


Vehicles with a gross vehicle weight (GVW) or gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), or gross combination weight (GCW) or gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 10,001 pounds or more; or
Vehicles designed to transport more than 15 people, or more than 8 people when there is direct compensation involved; or
Vehicles transporting hazardous materials that require the vehicle to be placarded.
The criterion in this definition that causes confusion is the vehicle weight. The general weight criterion for which a CDL is needed is 26,001 pounds. The weight criterion for which a file is needed is 10,001 pounds. So, interstate drivers of vehicles between 10,001 and 26,001 pounds (not hauling hazmat) need to have a DQ file but do not need to have a CDL.

For intrastate drivers, it depends on what the state has adopted for the weight criterion. A number of states use the same 10,001-pound criterion as is found in the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations. Other states have increased the weight limit to anywhere from 12,000 pounds up to 26,001 pounds (which does coincide with the CDL requirements). A few states also have grandfather clauses or other exemptions that may except certain drivers from certain portions of the DQ file, such as medical cards.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

With respect to the trailer weight and the federal rules, you are wrong. Trailer weight does not count against the 26000 lb unless it is over 10K. I can drive a 26K truck, pulling a 10000 lb trailer, and no CDL or med card is required if it is for personal use. If commercial, I would need a class C and a med card, but not an A or B. If I have a trailer plated at 10001, then any tow vehicle with a GVWR of 16000 or over requires a class A. If I have a class B, I can drive a truck with a GVWR above 26000, but not towing anything heavier than 10,000.

I agree on the med card over 10K gross weight. 

In my posed scenario, I wouldn’t be using the truck in interstate commerce, so I’m exempt. Pulling with the SUV, no problem as it is a personal registration. 

However, the random trooper that pulls me over because he is bored doesn’t know who is paying or not paying me. He just sees DOT numbers on the pickup and a trailer with a scissor lift.

Is he likely to give me a ticket for not having a med card or class C CDL, or let me go?

If he gives me a ticket, what would the judge likely say? 

In other words, as Phillbilly’s post implied, should you have a medical card and possibly a class C CDL anytime you are in a vehicle over 10000 GVWR, or 10000 CGVWR if towing, with DOT numbers on it, even if that particular use is personal?

After we solve this issue of earth shattering importance, we can discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.


----------



## Hydromaster

I think, your over thinking the dot numbers...

As I have said , a delivery "car" can also have dot# .
It's not driver licence dependent.

Just put a "not for hire "sign in the window .

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/do-i-need-usdot-number-1

I drive a 3/4 ton with dot# for work pulling a 7k trailer
With a class C lic


*Montana Class C CDL* - This license is for vehicles that do not exceed 26,000 pounds and otherwise do not require a CDL except when you need a CDL to attach an endorsement to under the following conditions.

Prepare for the Montana Class C CDL Passenger Bus written tests.
Prepare for the Montana Class C CDL School Buswritten tests.
Prepare for the Montana Class C CDL Hazmatwritten tests.
A vehicle designed to carry 16 or more passengers (including the driver). You must also possess the Passenger Vehicles Endorsement. Usually required for school buses even when carrying fewer than 16 passengers (including the driver). If driving a school bus, you would also need a Passengers Vehicles (P) and School Bus (P) Edorsement.
When carrying Hazardous Materials requiring placarding. You would also need the Hazardous Materials Endorsement (H).
When driving a vehicle with a tank exceeding 1000 gallons (but GVWR does not exceed 26,000 pounds). You would also need a Tank Vehicle (T) Endorsement.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

Hydromaster said:


> I think, your over thinking the dot numbers...
> 
> As I have said , a delivery "car" can also have dot# .
> It's not driver licence dependent.
> 
> https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/do-i-need-usdot-number-1


I know that I don't need DOT numbers.

The question I had was provoked by @Phillbilly post at 5:30 AM on Thursday, where he said that Joey pulling his personal boat would need a med card.

My question has to do with borrowing a truck that has already has DOT numbers, not putting them on.


----------



## Hydromaster

I know, and your over thinking it.

Phillbilly is incorrect.
It falls under the recreational provisions

In Pa


CLASS C (minimum age 18): A Class C license is issued to those persons 18 years of age or older who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of not more than 26,000 pounds or any combination of vehicles, except combination vehicles involving motorcycles, that does not meet the definition of a Class A or Class B vehicle. Where required, appropriate endorsements must be obtained.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

No class C needed if you are under 26001, not transporting a placardable amount of hazmat, not in a vehicle capable of transporting 16 or more passengers including the driver, and not in a school bus. If you’re in any of the above, you’d need the class C.

I can’t find a definitive answer on the medical card, but since the vehicle is registered (or appears to be registered) commercially, and is over the 10k GVW, no matter what the actual usage is, a medical card seems to be a requirement. 

I have IFTA stickers on my F350 and I have to track mileage and fuel purchased out of state no matter if it is a commercial trip or a personal trip.


----------



## Hydromaster

The class “c” in the lowest lic
Or the lic everyone is issued after their
Learning permit


----------



## Hydromaster

I don’t have a med card
Fuel receipts are a record them selves
Never used a log book

Got stoped one time , dot officer
Was just concerned with safety,
Trailer chains with the swag- tags
Lights , having lug nuts on all of the studs
Fire extinguisher yada yada , never asked to see my lic


----------



## Hydromaster

ps 
They can’t make a private vehicle stop
Without cause. 

That sign telling you to stop if pulling a trailer 
Is not valid . 

In North Dakota they have a sign they put up 
That says all diesel vehicles “must stop.”
I just drive by.( there looking for red fuel)

They can not stop without cause. 
Constitutionaly
I never have and they can’t pull you over
If you don’t stop .


It’s the law


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Hydromaster said:


> I don't have a med card
> Fuel receipts are a record them selves
> Never used a log book
> 
> Got stoped one time , dot officer
> Was just concerned with safety,
> Trailer chains with the swag- tags
> Lights , having lug nuts on all of the studs
> Fire extinguisher yada yada , never asked to see my lic


Paperwork is the first thing they check here. If it's not perfect then they start digging on the truck. If your paperwork is good then a walk around checking lights tires etc and they'll let you roll. Unless they see something in the walk around they don't like.


----------



## Hydromaster

John_DeereGreen said:


> Paperwork is the first thing they check here. If it's not perfect then they start digging on the truck. If your paperwork is good then a walk around checking lights tires etc and they'll let you roll. Unless they see something in the walk around they don't like.


Most of my hauling is very rural
the bigrig will show up then
We will offload parts from the truck onto my trailer and then I'll run out into the field or
out into a rural area I don't haul on the highways.

I think I/we blend in with a lot of the ranchers and they just don't bother with us too much

So you guys are telling me if you have DOT numbers on your plow truck that you're keeping a log book also?


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Hydromaster said:


> If I'm making deliveries for a pharmacy using a Mimi cooper.
> ( drugs are considered hazardous ) ( yet You don't need a hazmat endorsement)


Placardable amounts is what matters. You need to give up on this. You're only succeeding in making yourself look silly.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Aerospace Eng said:


> With respect to the trailer weight and the federal rules, you are wrong. Trailer weight does not count against the 26000 lb unless it is over 10K. I can drive a 26K truck, pulling a 10000 lb trailer, and no CDL or med card is required if it is for personal use. If commercial, I would need a class C and a med card, but not an A or B. If I have a trailer plated at 10001, then any tow vehicle with a GVWR of 16000 or over requires a class A. If I have a class B, I can drive a truck with a GVWR above 26000, but not towing anything heavier than 10,000.


I can see it the way you are describing by piecing it out... I have a truck at 26K and a trailer at 10K, but when you add the GVCW you are over... But the way I read Federal law is if the GVCW is over 26K, Class A.... If the trailer GVWR is over 10K, Class A... Pretty sure the private vs. commercial is irrelevant also unless you're a farmer... My guess is when DOT pulls you over you're going to be hit for something...

Pursuant to Federal standards, States issue CDLs and CLPs to drivers according to the following license classifications:

*Class A: *Any combination of vehicles which has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) whichever is greater.

*Class B: *Any single vehicle which has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight that does not exceed 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

*Class C: *Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.


----------



## Hydromaster

John_DeereGreen said:


> Placardable amounts is what matters. You need to give up on this. You're only succeeding in making yourself look silly.


 I guess I'm not afraid to ask a question I have the room laugh at me .
That's partly why I deleted that from my post but I've seen DOT numbers on the side of a pharmacy's delivery car.

For what other reason would a delivery car need DOT numbers?
The pizza delivery guy doesn't need them.


----------



## Hydromaster

Montana class D is what I should have posted

Class D basic driver's license (non-commercial driver's license):
Valid for up to 8 years.
For non-commercial vehicles weighing less than 26,000 lbs.


----------



## Hydromaster

Montana's graduated driver licensing law, MCA 61-5-131, creates a three-step program that allows new drivers under the age of 18 years to safely develop and improve their driving skills. Each step progressively increases the privileges and responsibilities of a new driver in an effort to reduce the number of motor vehicle crashes involving minors.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Hydromaster said:


> That's partly why I deleted that from my post but I've seen DOT numbers on the side of a pharmacy's delivery car.
> 
> For what other reason would a delivery car need DOT numbers?


Because it is used as a commercial vehicle. State law can (and OH is one of them) require DOT numbers on any CMV used in commerce, no matter if it is intrAstate or intERstate. Some don't care until you hit 10001 pounds GVW, some do. Often, once a company has DOT numbers it's easier to just put them on every vehicle in the fleet.

I'm in camp B. Only vehicle I have that doesn't have DOT numbers on it is my truck. Everything else has them.


----------



## Hydromaster

John_DeereGreen said:


> Because it is used as a commercial vehicle. State law can (and OH is one of them) require DOT numbers on any CMV used in commerce, no matter if it is intrAstate or intERstate. Some don't care until you hit 10001 pounds GVW, some do. Often, once a company has DOT numbers it's easier to just put them on every vehicle in the fleet.
> 
> I'm in camp B. Only vehicle I have that doesn't have DOT numbers on it is my truck. Everything else has them.


That was a non-answer.
(See what I did there, I added a word in front of another to create a new word)

Then explain why the pizza (chain) delivery
car doesn't have DOT# as it this involved in

commerce just as the pharmacy's Delivery car.

What I'm saying is weight has
nothing to do with DOT #
Neither does what License you hold.

It's about safety
Not how much your licensed to haul
Not How much weight your permitted to haul.
Not how much weight your vehicle can haul

So if you're plowing for money then you're engaged in commerce,then every plow truck would have to have a dot number.

The DOT doesn't give two hoots about your states regulations


----------



## John_DeereGreen

My head hurts. I give up.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

Ajlawn1 said:


> I can see it the way you are describing by piecing it out... I have a truck at 26K and a trailer at 10K, but when you add the GVCW you are over... But the way I read Federal law is if the GVCW is over 26K, Class A.... If the trailer GVWR is over 10K, Class A... Pretty sure the private vs. commercial is irrelevant also unless you're a farmer... My guess is when DOT pulls you over you're going to be hit for something...
> 
> Pursuant to Federal standards, States issue CDLs and CLPs to drivers according to the following license classifications:
> 
> *Class A: *Any combination of vehicles which has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) whichever is greater.
> 
> *Class B: *Any single vehicle which has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight that does not exceed 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).
> 
> *Class C: *Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.


This quote proves my points with respect to trailers. Class A is inclusive of trailer weight if and only if the trailer is over 10K. If it's under it doesn't count.

So when I moved a bunch of stuff from CA to PA, I rented a moving van and loaded it up until the gross was 25,000 or so (I scaled to make sure) I then added a trailer with my sister in law's '50 chevy on it. I scaled it again to make sure the tongue weight didn't put me over (and as a check on the tongue weight). The combination was over 26K, but the towing vehicle was not, and the trailer was under 10K, so I was OK without a CDL.

So I can tow up to 36,000 GCVWR as long as the tow vehicle stays under 26000 GVWR.

Theoretically, I could tow a 17K trailer behind a pickup that had a 9000 lb GVWR without needing a CDL, since the combination weighs less than 26K.


----------



## NYH1

No CDL needed to drive a vehicle with a GVWR up to 26k lbs. while towing a trailer with a GVWR up to 10k lbs. If you tow a trailer with a GVWR of 10,001 lbs. or more and your GCWR is over 26,001 lbs. a CDL A is required. A lot depends on the trailer being under or over 10k lbs.

You can drive a vehicle with a GVWR of say 12k lbs. and tow a trailer with a GVWR of 14k lbs. with a regular license. You can tow a trailer with a GVWR over 10k lbs. as long as the GCWR is 26k lbs. or less.

With a class B license you can drive any weight straight truck, let say 40k lbs. and tow a trailer up to 10k lbs.

_To the best of my knowledge the above information is true. I read it on the internet and they can't put anything on the internet that's not true....read that on the internet too._ 

***I edited the second paragraph***

NYH1.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

NYH1 said:


> No CDL needed to drive a vehicle with a GVWR up to 26k lbs. while towing a trailer with a GVWR up to 10k lbs. If you tow a trailer with a GVWR of 10,001 lbs. or more and your GCWR is over 26,001 lbs. a CDL A is required.
> 
> You can drive a vehicle with a GVWR of say 12k lbs. and tow a trailer with a GVWR of 14k lbs. with a regular license. You can tow a trailer with a GVWR over 10k lbs. as long as the GCWR is 26k lbs. or less. As with the above, if your GCWR is over 26k lbs. you would need a CDL A.
> 
> With a class B license you can drive any weight straight truck, let say 40k lbs. and tow a trailer up to 10k lbs.
> 
> _To the best of my knowledge the above information is true. I read it on the internet and they can't put anything on the internet that's not true....read that on the internet too._
> 
> NYH1.


Which, again, makes absolutely no sense. Yes, it's true, but still makes no sense.

Why is it any safer to have a setup in Dennis's example (truck+trailer GCVW of 36k) than a straight truck with a GVW of 36k? But yet anyone can take Dennis's setup and drive it with a regular license. But the exact same weight on a straight truck, they have to have at minimum a class B CDL.


----------



## NYH1

John_DeereGreen said:


> Which, again, makes absolutely no sense. Yes, it's true, but still makes no sense.
> 
> Why is it any safer to have a setup in Dennis's example (truck+trailer GCVW of 36k) than a straight truck with a GVW of 36k? But yet anyone can take Dennis's setup and drive it with a regular license. But the exact same weight on a straight truck, they have to have at minimum a class B CDL.


I agree, makes no sense. A lot comes down to the bureaucrats making money....nothing more, nothing less.

NYH1.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Aerospace Eng said:


> This quote proves my points with respect to trailers. Class A is inclusive of trailer weight if and only if the trailer is over 10K. If it's under it doesn't count.
> 
> So when I moved a bunch of stuff from CA to PA, I rented a moving van and loaded it up until the gross was 25,000 or so (I scaled to make sure) I then added a trailer with my sister in law's '50 chevy on it. I scaled it again to make sure the tongue weight didn't put me over (and as a check on the tongue weight). The combination was over 26K, but the towing vehicle was not, and the trailer was under 10K, so I was OK without a CDL.
> 
> So I can tow up to 36,000 GCVWR as long as the tow vehicle stays under 26000 GVWR.
> 
> Theoretically, I could tow a 17K trailer behind a pickup that had a 9000 lb GVWR without needing a CDL, since the combination weighs less than 26K.


So I did find where you can put the combo together to reach that, I stand corrected... I would be keeping a screen shot of that if ever doing it as I still could see them saying doesn't matter your GCWR is over 26K... Not sure about the last line talking about doing and being overweight anyway...

Probably be a huge run on IH 4300's and 10K lbs trailers now...

Max legal weight without a CDL is 36,000 pounds gross combination weight rating (greatest safe operating weight of power unit plus that of a towed trailer as determined by manufacturers and usually placarded on vehicles). In general, a single motor vehicle operated commercially may not exceed 26,000 lbs. without requiring a class B CDL. A power unit with another vehicle (trailer or otherwise) in tow requires a class A CDL if the GCWR exceeds 26,000; but this applies only if the towed unit alone has a GVWR in excess of 10,000 lbs. Therefore, a truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. can tow a trailer with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. without requiring any CDL. A driver operating a vehicle within these GCWR parameters which is nevertheless overloaded so that the actual combined weight (GCW) exceeds the legal limit can be liable for being overweight and may even be cited for operating a vehicle without a proper license.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

As far as I can tell that's if, for example, you had a trailer plated at 10000 behind a 26,000 lb truck, and loaded the trailer so that it weighed, say 10100 lb. (CGW = Combined Gross Weight vs CGWR Combined Gross Weight Rating) Then you would be overweight on the nameplate and be in violation without a Class A CDL.

It is my understanding that tongue weight adds to the tow vehicle's weight and takes it off the trailer. So if you load a truck to 26,000 and then put on a 5000 lb trailer with a 500 lb tongue weight, the truck would scale out at 26,500 and you would need a Class A CDL.


----------



## Hydromaster

After all this postering , peeing into the wind
Etc Etc . 
What have we decided on?

Will he be fine bowering his friends truck 
(With the dot#) to tow the lift.


----------



## NYH1

Aerospace Eng said:


> As far as I can tell that's if, for example, you had a trailer plated at 10000 behind a 26,000 lb truck, and loaded the trailer so that it weighed, say 10100 lb. (CGW = Combined Gross Weight vs CGWR Combined Gross Weight Rating) Then you would be overweight on the nameplate and be in violation without a Class A CDL.
> 
> It is my understanding that tongue weight adds to the tow vehicle's weight and takes it off the trailer. So if you load a truck to 26,000 and then put on a 5000 lb trailer with a 500 lb tongue weight, the truck would scale out at 26,500 and you would need a Class A CDL.


Correct. Plus adding that 500 lbs. tongue weight would add to the rear axle and take some weight off the front axle.

NYH1.


----------



## NYH1

Hydromaster said:


> After all this postering , peeing into the wind
> Etc Etc .
> *What have we decided on?*
> 
> Will he be fine bowering his friends truck
> (With the dot#) to tow the lift.


That CDL/DOT threads are the bestestest! Thumbs Up

NYH1.


----------



## leigh

Hydromaster said:


> After all this postering , peeing into the wind
> Etc Etc .
> What have we decided on?
> 
> Will he be fine bowering his friends truck
> (With the dot#) to tow the lift.


 Yes, with one provision. A runner blocker.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Aerospace Eng said:


> As far as I can tell that's if, for example, you had a trailer plated at 10000 behind a 26,000 lb truck, and loaded the trailer so that it weighed, say 10100 lb. (CGW = Combined Gross Weight vs CGWR Combined Gross Weight Rating) Then you would be overweight on the nameplate and be in violation without a Class A CDL.
> 
> It is my understanding that tongue weight adds to the tow vehicle's weight and takes it off the trailer. So if you load a truck to 26,000 and then put on a 5000 lb trailer with a 500 lb tongue weight, the truck would scale out at 26,500 and you would need a Class A CDL.


First example, you're overweight on the trailer. Doesn't matter if you have a CDL or not, the trailer is over. So you'd get an overweight ticket. That is saying the trailer scales out at the 10001 pounds stated. So you're in violation either way, a CDL wouldn't help you.

Second example, you're overweight on the truck. Truck's GVW is 26k. The steer+drive axle weights if scaled can add up to 26k, if you are over that on either axle you're illegal. Again, CDL won't help you.

I would wager that having a CDL would probably hurt you more than help you, because they're going to use the argument that you are a "professional driver" and should know better. But that's a judgement thing by the officer more than anything.

Both examples, if you are stopped, the setup can be red tagged until you remove weight or adjust your load's location to be at or under the GVW's of the truck and trailer and at or under the axle ratings of the truck and trailer.


----------



## Philbilly2

Aerospace Eng said:


> In other words, as Phillbilly's post implied, should you have a medical card and possibly a class C CDL anytime you are in a vehicle over 10000 GVWR, or 10000 CGVWR if towing, with DOT numbers on it, even if that particular use is personal


I never said a word about DOT numbers. Only medical card.



Hydromaster said:


> Phillbilly is incorrect.
> It falls under the recreational provisions
> 
> In Pa
> 
> 
> CLASS C (minimum age 18): A Class C license is issued to those persons 18 years of age or older who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of not more than 26,000 pounds or any combination of vehicles, except combination vehicles involving motorcycles, that does not meet the definition of a Class A or Class B vehicle. Where required, appropriate endorsements must be obtained.


And I never said a word about a C Class license. Only a medical card.


----------



## Philbilly2

Long and short... i don’t know about DOT numbers as in Illinois we are not required to have them on a CMV for the type of use that we do.

I can also tell you that in Illinois, you can drive a CMV with a class D license. You can even pull a trailer with a D class. I was in the passenger seat when one of my vans was pulled over by DOT and roadside checked. We were in a 1 ton van 9900 gvwr, pulling a 14k gvwr dump trailer. D class was fine as combined was under 26k.

Got 10 tickets in total that day. One of which was no med card operating a CMV over 10k. Had to go to court and all were thrown out. Also learned that day that they check windshield washer fluid at a roadside check that day :laugh:


----------



## Philbilly2

So here is another angle if you guys say that your truck goes to a non-CMV if it is personal use. 

Does that mean that when I drive my son to daycare in my Double Cab 3500 SRW (11,000 gvwr) that is registered to my company, that when I am taking him to daycare I don’t need my triangles or my fire extinguisher in the truck...

According to you guys, it transformed into a personal use vehicle and I have never been required to keep either of those items in my personal truck.


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> So here is another angle if you guys say that your truck goes to a non-CMV if it is personal use.
> 
> Does that mean that when I drive my son to daycare in my Double Cab 3500 SRW (11,000 gvwr) that is registered to my company, that when I am taking him to daycare I don't need my triangles or my fire extinguisher in the truck...
> 
> According to you guys, it transformed into a personal use vehicle and I have never been required to keep either of those items in my personal truck.


You are now embezzling from your company.
Taking company assets and useing them for personal gain, lol

Anyone can rent a truck from the lumber yard
It has comershail plates and a dot#

Now what?

Ps, just because you regester your pick up for over 10k doesn't make it a comershail vehicle.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Hydromaster said:


> You are now embezzling from your company.
> Taking company assets and useing them for personal gain, lol
> 
> Anyone can rent a truck from the lumber yard
> It has comershail plates and a dot#
> 
> Now what?


Oh lord.

GVW is what matters.

Just stop.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> Long and short... i don't know about DOT numbers as in Illinois we are not required to have them on a CMV for the type of use that we do.
> 
> I can also tell you that in Illinois, you can drive a CMV with a class D license. You can even pull a trailer with a D class. I was in the passenger seat when one of my vans was pulled over by DOT and roadside checked. We were in a 1 ton van 9900 gvwr, pulling a 14k gvwr dump trailer. D class was fine as combined was under 26k.
> 
> Got 10 tickets in total that day. One of which was no med card operating a CMV over 10k. Had to go to court and all were thrown out. Also learned that day that they check windshield washer fluid at a roadside check that day :laugh:


I just bet you roll out at 36K lbs in your "personal" truck and trailer you're getting nailed somewhere...

By the way what's a double cab....?


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> You are now embezzling from your company.
> Taking company assets and useing them for personal gain, lol
> 
> Anyone can rent a truck from the lumber yard
> It has comershail plates and a dot#
> 
> Now what?


It is a "perk to the job" call it a bonus if you will. 

As for the rentals.

Again, don't know anything about DOT numbers and how they play into any of this...

Any of the lumber yards around here only rent half tons and 3/4 tons. None of which I presume ( but do not know for a fact) are under the 10k qualification for CMV.


----------



## Philbilly2

Ajlawn1 said:


> I just bet you roll out at 36K lbs in your "personal" truck and trailer you're getting nailed somewhere...
> 
> By the way what's a double cab....?


GM has 3 cabs configurations.

Single Cab
Double Cab ( the old extended cab (10 inches shorter cab than my crew))
Crew Cab (4 full sized doors)


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> It is a "perk to the job" call it a bonus if you will.
> 
> As for the rentals.
> 
> Again, don't know anything about DOT numbers and how they play into any of this...
> 
> Any of the lumber yards around here only rent half tons and 3/4 tons. None of which I presume ( but do not know for a fact) are under the 10k qualification for CMV.


Because it's registered for over 10,000 pounds does that make it a commercial vehicle it just makes it a heavy vehicle

https://dojmt.gov/driving/vehicle-title-and-registration/


----------



## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> GM has 3 cabs configurations.
> 
> Single Cab
> Double Cab ( the old extended cab (10 inches shorter cab than my crew))
> Crew Cab (4 full sized doors)


Ahhh so extended I didn't know if it was another name for crew or...


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> View attachment 190123
> 
> 
> Because it's registered for over 10,000 pounds does that make it a commercial vehicle it just makes it a heavy vehicle
> 
> https://dojmt.gov/driving/vehicle-title-and-registration/


Are we talking about plates now or a medical card?


----------



## Hydromaster

According to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSRs) definitions section, a CMV is defined as a motor vehicle that:

"… has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater." 49 CFR § 383.5(1).

Given this definition, it's critically important to remember that a CMV is not defined by the actual weight -* it is defined based on the weight rating*. Please do not fall into the trap of missing CMV cases by confusing the actual weight with the gross weight rating!

There are other ways for an ordinary vehicle to be considered a CMV as well:

*1. Gross vehicle weight rating:* If the vehicle itself has a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, that is a CMV. 49 CFR § 383.5(2). There is a subtle difference between sub (1) and sub (2) of the rule: sub (1) is the gross combination weight rating where sub (2) examines only the gross weight rating of the vehicle in question.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Hydromaster said:


> View attachment 190123
> 
> 
> Because it's registered for over 10,000 pounds does that make it a commercial vehicle it just makes it a heavy vehicle
> 
> https://dojmt.gov/driving/vehicle-title-and-registration/


Plates don't matter in the discussion we've been having. All that matters is the sticker on the door of the truck stating what the GVWR is.


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> Are we talking about plates now or a medical card?


I could plate regesture my truck for over 10,000 pounds and never use it commercially 
Right

When I was 16 I bought a truck that was licensed for over 10,000 pounds not knowing what I was doing I just kept paying for the same registration on the same plates


----------



## Hydromaster

John_DeereGreen said:


> Plates don't matter in the discussion we've been having. All that matters is the sticker on the door of the truck stating what the GVWR is.


Not so we're debating if it's a commercial vehicle not .

Weight
This includes plates and registration

We are also debating DOT numbers

Just because you or Phil haven't mentioned it doesn't mean the rest of us haven't


----------



## Hydromaster

OK so I go to rent a big U-Haul

It has commercial plates on it and it has a dot number on it,

I don’t need a medical card & I don’t need a CDL. I could use it for a business or personal use.

Yes it’s still need to have the triangles and all of the safety equipment and fire extinguisher


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Hydromaster said:


> Not so we're debating if it's a commercial vehicle not .
> 
> Weight
> This includes plates and registration
> 
> We are also debating DOT numbers


No, I don't believe that's correct.

The entire discussion started with the question being posed of (paraphrasing) "if I use a commercial truck to move personal property not for hire, am I subject to all of the same requirements as if I were using it commercially" and the answer is yes.

You went down the DOT and plates rathole.


----------



## Hydromaster

Whatever you need buddy it’s still part of the discussion.
more people than I have been discussing it just like Dennis asked about the DOT numbers on the side of the pick up he was going to barrow.


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> I could plate regesture my truck for over 10,000 pounds and never use it commercially
> Right


Correct


----------



## prezek

In Maryland, the verbiage is vague. Rental trucks and trucks over 10k NOT used for commerce MAY not be subject to safety inspection...


----------



## Hydromaster

Here ya go John-DeereGreenu can refresh your memory



Aerospace Eng said:


> So here's a mostly on topic question....
> 
> I'm planning on getting a small scissor lift to use in maintaining my hangars (one I can pick up and fork through the mandoors if the big door is stuck). I think I found one in OH I want to buy.
> 
> I could tow it with my SUV, but I was thinking about borrowing an F350 pickup to be safer. However, it has DOT numbers on the side, as it is a company truck. If I got stopped, would the officer write me a ticket for no med card or Class C CDL and just say take it up with the judge?
> 
> In my SUV, no. I'm over 10000 lb GCVWR, but obvious personal use....just towing personal stuff.
> 
> In a pickup towing a scissor lift with DOT numbers? I'm not being compensated, and don't work for the company, but how would the officer know that, and why would he believe me?
> 
> If I cover the logo/numbers with something it seems like that would attract attention, and would it make a difference?.
> 
> I'm not really concerned, just curious.


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> OK so I go to rent a big U-Haul
> 
> It has commercial plates on it and it has a dot number on it,
> 
> I don't need a medical card & I don't need a CDL. I could use it for a business or personal use.
> 
> Yes it's still need to have the triangles and all of the safety equipment and fire extinguisher


U haul... good point. Never thought about those.

I am assuming that the reason all the u hauls I see are plated to Arizona or New Mexico. Different rules there???? I don't know?

I wonder if there is a loop hole or if it is written in the contract that you sign when you rent that "you assume and acknowledge your states laws"


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> OK so I go to rent a big U-Haul
> 
> It has commercial plates on it and it has a dot number on it,
> 
> I don't need a medical card & I don't need a CDL. I could use it for a business or personal use.
> 
> Yes it's still need to have the triangles and all of the safety equipment and fire extinguisher


And I have never seen a u haul that needs a CDL...


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> Not so we're debating if it's a commercial vehicle not .
> 
> Weight
> This includes plates and registration
> 
> We are also debating DOT numbers
> 
> Just because you or Phil haven't mentioned it doesn't mean the rest of us haven't


I am not saying it is not part of the discussion, I said I don't know anything about DOT so I am only talking med card.


----------



## Mudly

John_DeereGreen said:


> Depends on the state I believe. Ohio requires medical card for over 10k even intrastate.


We live pretty close to each other. Im not sure my trucks are as large as yours. But salt wise at the heaviest ill tip the scales at 19k total. I register all my trucks comm at 10k pus 1 really to avoid e check, but at any given time a small trailer or bed full of snow puts me over 10k. The medical card requirement im not aware of, is there a link on OBG I can research?


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Aerospace Eng said:


> I could tow it with my SUV, but I was thinking about borrowing an F350 pickup to be safer. However, it has DOT numbers on the side, as it is a company truck. If I got stopped, would the officer write me a ticket for no med card or Class C CDL and just say take it up with the judge?





Hydromaster said:


> Here ya go John-DeereGreenu can refresh your memory


Perhaps you should consider reading what is quoted above. He specifically asked if he would be required to have a medical card or class C CDL to operate said F350.

Asked nothing about does it require DOT numbers. Just stated that it has them.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Mudly said:


> We live pretty close to each other. Im not sure my trucks are as large as yours. But salt wise at the heaviest ill tip the scales at 19k total. I register all my trucks comm at 10k pus 1 really to avoid e check, but at any given time a small trailer or bed full of snow puts me over 10k. The medical card requirement im not aware of, is there a link on OBG I can research?


Here's the DOT number requirement. I can't find the medical card requirement right now, but I can assure you, get pulled over by a cop that knows what he's doing, or a DOT officer, and he will enlighten you on the requirement whilist writing you a citation for not having it.


----------



## Hydromaster

John_DeereGreen said:


> Perhaps you should consider reading what is quoted above. He specifically asked if he would be required to have a medical card or class C CDL to operate said F350.
> 
> Asked nothing about does it require DOT numbers. Just stated that it has them.


Maybe you need to go back and do some reading and refresh your short memory

He went on and stated his concern about driving such a vehicle with the dot numbers on the side as he thought he would cover them up

Anyway I'm just little side pissing match has nothing to do with the topic at hand have a great one


----------



## Mudly

John_DeereGreen said:


> Perhaps you should consider reading what is quoted above. He specifically asked if he would be required to have a medical card or class C CDL to operate said F350.
> 
> Asked nothing about does it require DOT numbers. Just stated that it has them.





John_DeereGreen said:


> Here's the DOT number requirement. I can't find the medical card requirement right now, but I can assure you, get pulled over by a cop that knows what he's doing, or a DOT officer, and he will enlighten you on the requirement whilist writing you a citation for not having it.
> 
> View attachment 190128


Cool thanks i can read it later, headed to church. I gotta weight ticket once years ago. And from that ticket thought i was compliment with the changes i made per bmv. Ttyl


----------



## Hydromaster

What is a dot number ?
A USDOT number is an identifier that is unique to your company. It allows quick access to your company's safety information. This information is gathered during accident investigations, inspections, audits and compliance reviews.

http://blog.uscargocontrol.com/usdot-number/


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Hydromaster said:


> Maybe you need to go back and do some reading and refresh your short memory
> 
> He went on and stated his concern about driving such a vehicle with the dot numbers on the side as he thought he would cover them up
> 
> Anyway I'm just little side pissing match has nothing to do with the topic at hand have a great one


He asked if he needed a medical card or a CDL. That was the question posed in his post. Yes, he mentioned covering up the DOT number/logo, and if it would draw more attention to the truck by doing so, but that was not the main question in or the reason for the post.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Hydromaster said:


> What is a dot number ?
> A USDOT number is an identifier that is unique to your company. It allows quick access to your company's safety information. This information is gathered during accident investigations, inspections, audits and compliance reviews.
> 
> http://blog.uscargocontrol.com/usdot-number/


No one asked what a DOT number was. Your point is?


----------



## Hydromaster

John_DeereGreen said:


> No one asked what a DOT number was. Your point is?


Are you sure?
as some ,,, Didn't really know what it was or what it was for ,even yourself went on to post DOT number information.

My bad, I need to take my own advice and stop engaging in this guys personal pissing competition


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> Long and short... i don't know about DOT numbers as in Illinois we are not required to have them on a CMV for the type of use that we do.
> 
> I can also tell you that in Illinois, you can drive a CMV with a class D license. You can even pull a trailer with a D class. I was in the passenger seat when one of my vans was pulled over by DOT and roadside checked. We were in a 1 ton van 9900 gvwr, pulling a 14k gvwr dump trailer. D class was fine as combined was under 26k.
> 
> Got 10 tickets in total that day. One of which was no med card operating a CMV over 10k. Had to go to court and all were thrown out. Also learned that day that they check windshield washer fluid at a roadside check
> that day :laugh:


Dot numbers are not a state thing,
Only you know your business
But do you have a truck registered for over 10k?
*
USDOT Numbers are issued by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration ("FMCSA"), a division of the United States Department of Transportation ("USDOT"). You may obtain a USDOT Number for your commercial motor vehicle over 10,000 pounds*.

You are required to obtain a USDOT number if you have a vehicle that:


Is used to transport the types and quantities of hazardous materials requiring a safety permit in intrastate commerce (see 49 CFR 385.403).
OR


Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation;
*AND is involved in Interstate commerce:*
Trade, traffic, or transportation in the United States-


Between a place in a State and a place outside of such State (including a place outside of the United States);
Between two places in a State through another State or a place outside of the United States; or
Between two places in a State as part of trade, traffic, or transportation originating or terminating outside the State or the United States.
You are required by FMCSA to obtain a USDOT Number and comply with the Federal Regulations.

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/do-i-need-usdot-number

Ps 
quote "We were in a 1 ton van 9900 gvwr, pulling a 14k gvwr dump trailer. "

Your combination requires a DOT .#


----------



## FredG

Some de ja vu going on here today. LMFAO Thumbs Up


----------



## Hydromaster

FredG said:


> Some de ja vu going on here today. LMFAO Thumbs Up


Some memories are short and some don't realize it's a federal thing or even realize they need a.number.


----------



## FredG

Hydromaster said:


> What is a dot number ?
> A USDOT number is an identifier that is unique to your company. It allows quick access to your company's safety information. This information is gathered during accident investigations, inspections, audits and compliance reviews.
> 
> http://blog.uscargocontrol.com/usdot-number/


 Agree on the DOT #'s, Identify you and any records. Overload, traffic violations, Trucks that been red tagged etc.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I received a text stating this thread could get 8 more pages...he's close to being right.


----------



## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> I received a text stating this thread could get 8 more pages...he's close to being right.


 WHaaaaaaat I think everybody got it. Then again maybe not.  :laugh:


----------



## NYH1

Philbilly2 said:


> So here is another angle if you guys say that your truck goes to a non-CMV if it is personal use.
> 
> Does that mean that when I drive my son to daycare in my Double Cab 3500 SRW (11,000 gvwr) that is registered to my company, that when I am taking him to daycare I don't need my triangles or my fire extinguisher in the truck...
> 
> According to you guys, it transformed into a personal use vehicle and I have never been required to keep either of those items in my personal truck.


Once it's registered as a CMV, whether you're using it for work or not, it's a CMV until you change the registration to a non-CMV registration.

NYH1.


----------



## BUFF

Just run farm tags with no signage.Thumbs Up


----------



## Hydromaster

BUFF said:


> Just run farm tags with no signage.Thumbs Up


If you use your farm-registered truck outside of your home state or over 150mi away and the actual weight or weight rating
(or if towing, the combination)
is greater than 10,000 lbs, you will be required to display on the vehicle the name of business, the place where the business is located, and the USDOT number that has been assigned to the business.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/


----------



## Mark Oomkes

NYH1 said:


> Once it's registered as a CMV, whether you're using it for work or not, it's a CMV until you change the registration to a non-CMV registration.
> 
> NYH1.


Michigan doesn't have "CMV" registration for vehicles under 10k curb weight.

All my pickups have the same registration as someone pulling a 5th wheel for pleasure.

And by definition when I am on vacation, my personal truck is no longer a CMV no matter who it is registered to.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Michigan doesn't have "CMV" registration for vehicles under 10k curb weight.
> 
> All my pickups have the same registration as someone pulling a 5th wheel for pleasure.
> 
> And by definition when I am on vacation, my personal truck is no longer a CMV no matter who it is registered to.


Do you pull your 5th wheel for pleasure on vacation?


----------



## leigh




----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ajlawn1 said:


> Do you pull your 5th wheel for pleasure on vacation?


Sure...it isn't for work.

Truck is still registered to the bizness though.


----------



## Randall Ave

Mark Oomkes said:


> Sure...it isn't for work.
> 
> Truck is still registered to the bizness though.


You get to go on vacation???


----------



## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Sure...it isn't for work.
> 
> Truck is still registered to the bizness though.


Have you pulled it more then once and never been caught....


----------



## Defcon 5

Ajlawn1 said:


> Do you pull your 5th wheel for pleasure on vacation?


I'm sure it's pleasurable for him until his Non-CMV bursts into flames on the freeway...


----------



## Defcon 5

Randall Ave said:


> You get to go on vacation???


Vacation for him....His wife and family...Not so much


----------



## NYH1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Michigan doesn't have "CMV" registration for vehicles under 10k curb weight.
> 
> All my pickups have the same registration as someone pulling a 5th wheel for pleasure.


Philbilly2 mentioned his truck that has a 11k lbs. GVWR. I was replying to that.



Mark Oomkes said:


> And by definition when I am on vacation, my personal truck is no longer a CMV no matter who it is registered to.


How's that? Is a personal truck ever a CMV, hence the word "personal"?

Meatchicken has the same requirement as most states requiring DOT number on vehicles over 10k lbs. used for commerce.

Assuming we're still talking pickup trucks with GVWR of 10,001 lbs. and above. What would happen if you were on vacation towing a 5th wheel travel trailer in a truck with DOT numbers and you drove past a DOT check stop without stopping?

NYH1.


----------



## Hydromaster

NYH1 said:


> Assuming we're still talking pickup trucks with GVWR of 10,001 lbs. and above. What would happen if you were on vacation towing a 5th wheel travel trailer in a truck with DOT numbers and you drove past a DOT check stop without stopping?
> 
> NYH1.


In MT it's 8,000lbs 
And they either would be laughing or not amused, if Mark pulled in pulling his 5er camper while on vacation.

I run by the waystation in Billings all the time I don't stop, never been pulled over. 
Company truck ,signage & Dot # on the door
.


----------



## BUFF

Hydromaster said:


> If you use your farm-registered truck outside of your home state or over 150mi away and the actual weight or weight rating
> (or if towing, the combination)
> is greater than 10,000 lbs, you will be required to display on the vehicle the name of business, the place where the business is located, and the USDOT number that has been assigned to the business.
> https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/


As you know 150miles doesn't get you to far across western states and typically takes 2-2.5 hours to cover, also crossing state lines is pretty common too. From Lander or Medicine Bow we'll run up to Billings several times a year for bull sales and the calf sale, we'll also go into Idehoe, Utoh, So Dukota for bull sales. All while driving a pickup trailer combo that exceeds 26K CC. We'll haul up to 10ton of hay, Backhoes, tractors, implements, etc... behind a pickup on a GN trail.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying the DOT focus is not on farmers and ranchers ootwest. That may change and I'm sure when/if it does family members will be ticketed....


----------



## BUFF

Defcon 5 said:


> Vacation for him....His wife and family...Not so much


While touring wine country, Light Houses, Basket shops and Antiquing....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

NYH1 said:


> How's that? Is a personal truck ever a CMV, hence the word "personal"?


My CMV is also my personal truck.



NYH1 said:


> Meatchicken has the same requirement as most states requiring DOT number on vehicles over 10k lbs. used for commerce.


Actually, they don't. It was changed to 26,001 specifically so pickups pulling mowers don't have to have DOT numbers.



NYH1 said:


> Assuming we're still talking pickup trucks with GVWR of 10,001 lbs. and above. What would happen if you were on vacation towing a 5th wheel travel trailer in a truck with DOT numbers and you drove past a DOT check stop without stopping?


I'm guessing nothing.

However, if I was stopped after I am confident nothing further would happen because it isn't in use as a CMV.


----------



## mikeitu7

This is Illinois


----------



## NYH1

Mark Oomkes said:


> My CMV is also my personal truck.
> 
> Actually, they don't. It was changed to 26,001 specifically so pickups pulling mowers don't have to have DOT numbers.
> 
> I'm guessing nothing.
> 
> However, if I was stopped after I am confident nothing further would happen because it isn't in use as a CMV.


Ok, fair enough.

NYH1.


----------



## NYH1

mikeitu7 said:


> View attachment 190160
> This is Illinois


New Yorkistan's are a little different. _Types of Drivers Licenses in NY_
*
A *Commercial (CDL) Age 21 or older Most single unit vehicles and vehicle combinations up to legal weight limits depending on endorsements and restrictions. 
Endorsements- H, M, N, P, S, T, W, X

Commercial Learner Permit (CLP) Limited to:
Endorsements- M, N, P, S, W

*B *Commercial (CDL) Age 18 or older Most single unit vehicles that a Class E driver can drive plus buses and trucks that have a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 26,001 lbs. or more depending on endorsements and restrictions. 
Endorsements- H, M, N, P, S, W, X

Commercial Learner Permit (CLP) Limited to:
Endorsements- M, N, P, S, W

*C *Commercial (CDL) Age 18 or older Most single unit vehicles that a Class E driver can drive plus buses and trucks that have a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less depending on endorsements and restrictions. 
Endorsements- H, M, N, P, S, W, X

*D *Operator Age 18 or over, or age 17 with Driver Education.

Passenger cars and trucks with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less.
A vehicle that tows another vehicle (for example a trailer) that has a maximum gross weight of 10,000 lbs. or less.
Can tow a vehicle with a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs only if the combined weight rating of the two vehicles is 26,000 lbs. or less.
Limited Use Motorcycles (mopeds)
Endorsements- F, G, R, W

*DJ *Junior Operator Age 16-17

Passenger cars and trucks with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 10,000 lbs. or less.
A vehicle that tows another vehicle (for example a trailer) with a GVWR of 3,000 lbs. or less.
Limited Use Motorcycles (mopeds)
See the Graduated Driver License (GDL) Law and the restrictions on drivers under age 18

*E *For-hire: Taxi, Livery, Limo Age 18 or older The same type of vehicles as Class D, plus for-hire vehicles that carry 14 passengers or less.
Endorsements- F, G, R, W

*M *Motorcycle Age 18 or over, or age 17 with Driver Education. Can be combined with other Classes, for example Class DM Motorcycles

*MJ *Junior Motorcycle Age 16-17 with Driver Education. Can be combined with Class DJ (DJMJ) Motorcycles, with restrictions for drivers under age 18. See the Graduated Driver License (GDL) Law and the restrictions on drivers under age 18.


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> Dot numbers are not a state thing,
> Only you know your business
> But do you have a truck registered for over 10k?
> *
> USDOT Numbers are issued by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration ("FMCSA"), a division of the United States Department of Transportation ("USDOT"). You may obtain a USDOT Number for your commercial motor vehicle over 10,000 pounds*.
> 
> You are required to obtain a USDOT number if you have a vehicle that:
> 
> 
> Is used to transport the types and quantities of hazardous materials requiring a safety permit in intrastate commerce (see 49 CFR 385.403).
> OR
> 
> 
> Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
> Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
> Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation;
> *AND is involved in Interstate commerce:*
> Trade, traffic, or transportation in the United States-
> 
> 
> Between a place in a State and a place outside of such State (including a place outside of the United States);
> Between two places in a State through another State or a place outside of the United States; or
> Between two places in a State as part of trade, traffic, or transportation originating or terminating outside the State or the United States.
> You are required by FMCSA to obtain a USDOT Number and comply with the Federal Regulations.
> 
> https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/do-i-need-usdot-number
> 
> Ps
> quote "We were in a 1 ton van 9900 gvwr, pulling a 14k gvwr dump trailer. "
> 
> Your combination requires a DOT .#


It does??? 

Re-read what you posted and pay attention to the key words.

First word... "You MAY obtain a USDOT number if your CMV is over 10k."

May does not mean MUST. Two different definitions.

Second word... "AND is involved in interstate commerce."

We do not work outside of our registered state so interstate commerce is not a part of my company. So although the combo that I posted does meet the 10k rating, the word AND means that I must also meet one of the following items... which my operations do not.

So... no, I do not need a DOT as I do not meet the federal requirements that you have posted and Illinois (my operating state) does not require them on trucks and trailers of my operating size.

And I can assure you that the DOT check by the officer that day who wrote 10 tickets to the guy I was riding with would have been more than happy to take the time to write number 11 that day if a DOT number was in fact needed... just saying.

But thanks for looking out for me Thumbs Up


----------



## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> And by definition when I am on vacation, my personal truck is no longer a CMV no matter who it is registered to.


Can you produce this verbiage? I have never heard of this...



Mark Oomkes said:


> My CMV is also my personal truck.
> 
> However, if I was stopped after I am confident nothing further would happen because it isn't in use as a CMV.


My question is how is this defined? How can you make a truck a CMV one minute, then the next say it is a personal truck the next?

It is an asset to the company, register to the company, plated by the company... how at any point can it become a personal vehicle? I just don't see that sticking when DOT truck enforcement check stops you.


----------



## FredG

Wow this is getting heavy, after all this I have no idea if I'm legal or not. I'm not worried as long as my Nephew is Chief of police. Peace out. :laugh:


----------



## Ajlawn1

FredG said:


> Wow this is getting heavy, after all this I have no idea if I'm legal or not. I'm not worried as long as my Nephew is Chief of police. Peace out. :laugh:


You're not!!!


----------



## FredG

Ajlawn1 said:


> You're not!!!


 Maybe not! Not getting any tickets tho.


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly,

I quoted the literature from
The Feds, that states who, may, shall & must have a dot number.

And then read on a little further word says you are required to obtain. If....


----------



## Hydromaster

Actually if you go back you will see I don’t think anybody needs the dot numbers and I don’t think Dennis needed to worry about the dot numbers 
but I am everybody was so concerned about him driving a vehicle with a dot number commercial license plates and it doesn’t make any difference. 

Just like if he had rented our U-Haul with commercial license plates and a DOT number on the side. 

His license qualifies him for hauling the weight the license qualifies him to drive the truck the trailer the trailer can support the weight of the scissor lift and his combined weight will be underneath 26,000 pounds. 


A dot number doesn’t mean you have to stop at a way station. If a dot officer should pull the vehicle over all there looking for is your safety equipment your road flares your markers yada yada fire extinguisher. 


I really don’t care who does what .
we all break laws ,if you want to admit it or not .
if you’re going to break one I think you should be informed and know what the penalty is that’s all.


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> Can you produce this verbiage? I have never heard of this...
> 
> My question is how is this defined? How can you make a truck a CMV one minute, then the next say it is a personal truck the next?
> 
> It is an asset to the company, register to the company, plated by the company... how at any point can it become a personal vehicle? I just don't see that sticking when DOT truck enforcement check stops you.


NY
Looks at it this way

It is normally correct to register a truck as a commercial vehicle, even when it is not used for business. For example, many pick-up trucks that are never used for business are registered as commercial vehicles.

they don't care, he has nothing to worry about if Dot enforcemeant or the highway patrol pulled him over they just want to see his safety gear and it would be really odd for them to get out the scales, when he's pulling an RV .


----------



## Hydromaster

I’ve had to drag off a dead horse before so I’ll give this one another bump

Maybe John Deere green, phill Billy or somebody else can explain this to me.

All of you use a warning light on the roof of your truck and or few strobes and really light up your truck. your sidewalk crew or yourself wouldn’t go outside without a reflective safety vest on,
You carry liability insurance for a slip and falls,
Some of you were even discussing the need to be ISO certified ,
All this has to do with safety.

Why are some of you so adamant about not getting or needing a DOT number ?

You do all the other stuff in the name of safety why are you dropping the ball here ?


----------



## FredG

In NY you can drive a 50' motor home along with a trailer for your car etc with no special license or DOT #'s. Most just put a sign on them not for hire.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> Can you produce this verbiage? I have never heard of this...
> 
> My question is how is this defined? How can you make a truck a CMV one minute, then the next say it is a personal truck the next?
> 
> It is an asset to the company, register to the company, plated by the company... how at any point can it become a personal vehicle? I just don't see that sticking when DOT truck enforcement check stops you.


It's just like the fallacy of a truck that has air brakes requires a CDL. Or a truck with a tank capacity over 1,000 gallons requires a tanker endorsement.

You can't enforce a law on something that doesn't fall under that law.

If I am using my pickup, logoed and with DOT numbers to haul my 5th wheel on vacation it is not a CMV, it is a private vehicle. Because of it's USE. And that is what makes a CMV a CMV...it's use. Not who it is registered to. And the commercial plates don't apply to me because Michigan does not have "commercial" plates persay. Michigan does not require DOT numbers on vehicles until they hit 26,001 GVWR or GCVWR.

No different than a firearm...is it a defensive or offensive weapon? Your CMV is capable of breaking speed limits, but you don't get written up because it is capable of it.

It's all about intent.


----------



## Hydromaster

You all run a beacon on the roof and or strobes and flashers it doesn’t say you must it doesn’t say they’re required it says you may use them while engaged in snow removal


Yet you do

That’s great Fred here he could tow triples here
I was kind of making it a point about all these commercial played vehicles in NY that are only used for private use and I think these people may leave the state of New York while pulling a 5er with n vacation ,, I don’t know ,call me crazy ,it’s been done before.

A truck a fifth wheel and a boat
A car a travel trailer & boat.


No signage required you do not need to put a sign on the vehicle “not for hire “ the sign doesn’t mean diddly.

....
Don’t forget about all the “or” in the dot literature ,just because your vehicle is under the 26,000 pounds doesn’t mean you may not be required to get a dot #
I think some you need to look around I’ve seen dot numbers on compact cars and they couldn’t get close to 26,000 pounds

Doesn’t mean you have to have them maybe not but what difference would it make other than showing that you are a more professional ..


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Hydromaster said:


> You all run a beacon on the roof and or strobes and flashers it doesn't say you must it doesn't say they're required it says you may use them while engaged in snow removal


Actually they are required in Meatchicken.



Hydromaster said:


> A truck a fifth wheel and a boat


Meatchicken has a recreational doubles license\whatever. If I take the test for doubles endorsement for my CDL I don't need the recreational doubles.


----------



## Hydromaster

Mark Oomkes said:


> Actually they are required in Meatchicken.
> .


Per the Michigan Vehicle Code:

Public Act 161 of 2016 amended the Michigan Vehicle Code, MCL 257.698, to allow for the use of flashing, rotating, or oscillating green lights as follows:
Officers should be aware that the only vehicles authorized to use flashing, rotating, or oscillating green lights are the vehicle
s listed above. Use or possession of flashing, rotating, or oscillating green lights by any other vehicle, including commercial snow removal vehicles, is prohibited by MCL 257.698(5). Violation of MCL 257.698(5) is a 90-day misdemeanor

It allows not required

5) The use or possession of flashing, oscillating, or rotating lights of any color is prohibited except as otherwise provided by law, or under the following circumstances:
(d) Flashing, rotating, or oscillating amber lights, placed in a position as to be visible throughout an arc of 360 degrees, shall be used by a state, county, or municipal vehicle engaged in the removal of ice, snow, or other material from the highway and in other operations designed to control ice and snow.

Are you the state county or a municipal ?

It goes on

, may be equipped with flashing, rotating, or oscillating amber lights.

https://www.workzonesafety.org/files/documents/database_documents/S&P2741-1.pdf
"may"

May, is not shall or required.

Couldn't find where it says it's required ?

*Measure increases roadway safety for Michigan drivers*
Legislation introduced by state Rep. Triston Cole to give snow plow drivers the flexibility to display flashing amber lights while actively plowing has been signed into law.

Cole said private plow trucks will have the ability to use their flashing amber lights to safely alert motorists when they are on the road.

"With winter quickly approaching, this common-sense legislation will increase roadway safety and alert motorists to the presence of snow plow drivers," said Cole, of Mancelona. "By allowing the flashing amber lights to be turned on, snow plows will be spotted more easily and that is safer for everyone."

The law previously required private snow removal companies to have their flashing lights turned off while on the roadway even if they are actively plowing.

The new law will also allow snow plow drivers to operate a truck with a snow plow blade up to 10 feet wide between October 1st and May 1st each year.

House Bill 5766 is now Public Act 342 of 2018.

It allows the use of


----------



## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> It's just like the fallacy of a truck that has air brakes requires a CDL. Or a truck with a tank capacity over 1,000 gallons requires a tanker endorsement.
> 
> You can't enforce a law on something that doesn't fall under that law.
> 
> If I am using my pickup, logoed and with DOT numbers to haul my 5th wheel on vacation it is not a CMV, it is a private vehicle. Because of it's USE. And that is what makes a CMV a CMV...it's use. Not who it is registered to. And the commercial plates don't apply to me because Michigan does not have "commercial" plates persay. Michigan does not require DOT numbers on vehicles until they hit 26,001 GVWR or GCVWR.
> 
> No different than a firearm...is it a defensive or offensive weapon? Your CMV is capable of breaking speed limits, but you don't get written up because it is capable of it.
> 
> It's all about intent.


Can you show me this verbiage in any motor code?

I still don't agree with you. I have showed you the verbiage that says that you still have to follow motor vehicle rules and regs if you use it for private use. I have never heard or seen this in my life so if it is true, I would love to know how to prove this the next time I get pulled over.


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> I've had to drag off a dead horse before so I'll give this one another bump
> 
> Maybe John Deere green, phill Billy or somebody else can explain this to me.
> 
> All of you use a warning light on the roof of your truck and or few strobes and really light up your truck. your sidewalk crew or yourself wouldn't go outside without a reflective safety vest on,
> You carry liability insurance for a slip and falls,
> Some of you were even discussing the need to be ISO certified ,
> All this has to do with safety.
> 
> Why are some of you so adamant about not getting or needing a DOT number ?
> 
> You do all the other stuff in the name of safety why are you dropping the ball here ?


You are reaching...

Why would I get something that I do not need to operate in my line of work? We go to the safety lane and get the trucks and trailers checked every six months. How does a DOT number make my trucks or trailers more safe?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> Can you show me this verbiage in any motor code?
> 
> I still don't agree with you. I have showed you the verbiage that says that you still have to follow motor vehicle rules and regs if you use it for private use. I have never heard or seen this in my life so if it is true, I would love to know how to prove this the next time I get pulled over.


No I can't because I'm bizzie.

Maybe it was just the cop's interpretation, but it is logical and I would say arguable in a court of law.


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> You are reaching...
> 
> Why would I get something that I do not need to operate in my line of work? We go to the safety lane and get the trucks and trailers checked every six months. How does a DOT number make my trucks or trailers more safe?


How does an amber light on your roof make you any more safe?
It is the responsibility of drivers to know and comply with all applicable Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations. Safety compliance and safe operations translate into saved lives and protected property.

then I was looking around and I found this
"interstate USDOT number registration "
https://www.mcssl.com/SecureCart/mo...=A9264A9C-B02C-47F3-B1CA-16457242BF8E&sdccr=1

Apart from federal regulations, some states require their intrastate commercial motor vehicle registrants to obtain a USDOT Number. These states include:


Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Montana
New Jersey
New York
Nebraska
Nevada
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Pennsylvania
Puerto Rico
South Carolina
Texas
Utah
Washington
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming


----------



## FredG

Hydromaster said:


> You all run a beacon on the roof and or strobes and flashers it doesn't say you must it doesn't say they're required it says you may use them while engaged in snow removal
> 
> Yet you do
> 
> That's great Fred here he could tow triples here
> I was kind of making it a point about all these commercial played vehicles in NY that are only used for private use and I think these people may leave the state of New York while pulling a 5er with n vacation ,, I don't know ,call me crazy ,it's been done before.
> 
> A truck a fifth wheel and a boat
> A car a travel trailer & boat.
> 
> No signage required you do not need to put a sign on the vehicle "not for hire " the sign doesn't mean diddly.
> 
> ....
> Don't forget about all the "or" in the dot literature ,just because your vehicle is under the 26,000 pounds doesn't mean you may not be required to get a dot #
> I think some you need to look around I've seen dot numbers on compact cars and they couldn't get close to 26,000 pounds
> 
> Doesn't mean you have to have them maybe not but what difference would it make other than showing that you are a more professional ..


 Don't know if the not for hire is required or not and don't care. Smart people do that to avoid the cops and inspection. If you are for hire you need a CDL with a P endorsement to carry people like a greyhound. Again a person in a converted grayhound into a motor home need no special license. Furthermore triples are not allowed in NYS, only doubles and that's only on the NYS Thurway.


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> How does an amber light on your roof make you any more safe?
> It is the responsibility of drivers to know and comply with all applicable Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations. Safety compliance and safe operations translate into saved lives and protected property.
> 
> then I was looking around and I found this
> "interstate USDOT number registration "
> https://www.mcssl.com/SecureCart/mo...=A9264A9C-B02C-47F3-B1CA-16457242BF8E&sdccr=1
> 
> Apart from federal regulations, some states require their intrastate commercial motor vehicle registrants to obtain a USDOT Number. These states include:
> 
> 
> Alabama
> Alaska
> Arizona
> California
> Colorado
> Connecticut
> Florida
> Georgia
> Idaho
> Indiana
> Iowa
> Kansas
> Kentucky
> Maine
> Maryland
> Massachusetts
> Michigan
> Minnesota
> Missouri
> Montana
> New Jersey
> New York
> Nebraska
> Nevada
> North Carolina
> Ohio
> Oklahoma
> Oregon
> Pennsylvania
> Puerto Rico
> South Carolina
> Texas
> Utah
> Washington
> West Virginia
> Wisconsin
> Wyoming


You are answering my question with a question...

Again, I ask... how does a DOT number on the side of my truck make me any more safe?

Do you know the difference between interstate and intrastate?


----------



## Hydromaster

It doesn’t matter how smart the person is with the not for hire signage is 
the cop can still enforce the law . 

I’ve seen people driving your car without plates and a sign in the window with the letters LAF” License applied for” 

Do you think that will fool the cops or do you think they’ll still get pulled ove?


----------



## Ajlawn1

.


----------



## FredG

Hydromaster said:


> It doesn't matter how smart the person is with the not for hire signage is
> the cop can still enforce the law .
> 
> I've seen people driving your car without plates and a sign in the window with the letters LAF" License applied for"
> 
> Do you think that will fool the cops or do you think they'll still get pulled ove?


 SKWLW, I got ya. I can see this getting locked shortly.


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> You are answering my question with a question...
> 
> Again, I ask... how does a DOT number on the side of my truck make me any more safe?
> 
> Do you know the difference between interstate and intrastate?


"Interstate USDOT number registration "
http://www.dotnumber.us/

Yes l,I do buddy and you think this thread is only for you or do you think there are other people out there that cross state lines to work?

Are You catching where they use inter or
Intra? and enter differently there.

regardless ,what would it hurt for you to obtain one ?
being more professional?


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> Yes l,I do buddy and you think this thread is only for you or do you think there are other people out there that cross state lines to work?
> 
> Are You catching where they use inter or
> Intra? and enter differently there.
> 
> A lot of folks are getting confused with what license plate should be on the truck ,
> what license they need to hold,
> And they need to apply the totality of the law regardless ,what would it hurt for you to obtain one ?
> being more professional?


10-4 I figured that the use of the quote it was directed at me.


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> 10-4 I figured that the use of the quote it was directed at me.


Not at you personally I was just taking some of the statements to use so I could further along my position it wasn't a personal attack 
I don't care who gets the dot numbers I just didn't understand all of the resistance form a bunch of folks who push all these other safety items

Shaking the tree to see what falls loose.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Hydromaster said:


> Not at you personally I was just taking some of the statements to use so I could further along my position it wasn't a personal attack
> I don't care who gets the dot numbers I just didn't understand all of the resistance form a bunch of folks who push all these other safety items
> 
> Shaking the tree to see what falls loose.


Who were you addressing it to then?


----------



## BUFF

John_DeereGreen said:


> Who were you addressing it to then?


The guy on first....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> The guy on first....


What???


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> What???


He's on 2nd


----------



## Philbilly2

BUFF said:


> He's on 2nd


I don't know anymore...


----------



## Hydromaster

John_DeereGreen said:


> Who were you addressing it to then?


I asked you to explain something .


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> Shaking the tree to see what falls loose.


----------



## Mike_PS

alright back on point or quit posting in the thread so we can leave it open

thanks


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Hydromaster said:


> I asked you to explain something .


I don't feel like reading through 10 pages of stuff. What do you want explained?

Edit sorry MJD we posted at the same time.

Never mind.


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> regardless ,what would it hurt for you to obtain one ?
> being more professional?


Ok... let me see if I can wrap my head around your thinking here...

So I can legally drive every single piece of equipment I own 100% legally without a school bus endorsement. But I should get one... because I don't need it and I am not required to have it to operate anything that I own as I am not in the school bus industry.


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> Ok... let me see if I can wrap my head around your thinking here...
> 
> So I can legally drive every single piece of equipment I own 100% legally without a school bus endorsement. But I should get one... because I don't need it and I am not required to have it to operate anything that I own as I am not in the school bus industry.


 I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around where you get this huge assumption

Or is that your answer to why do anything in the name of safety if you don't have to ?
you don't have to have a flashing light on your truck you don't have to wear an orasafety vest you don't have to have insurance to plow
You don't need ISO certification

I don't know, can you drive everything you own? As I don't assume that you can .
Doyou hold the proper license.
But then again you don't need a license to drive around the back 40 do you ?

Some people spend a lot of money saying that they're more safe in the name of professionalism .
I'm just trying to gauge why the resistance ?Why not have one more thing in your quiver when you get called on the mat?


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## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around where you get this huge assumption
> 
> Or is that your answer to why do anything in the name of safety if you don't have to ?
> you don't have to have a flashing light on your truck you don't have to wear an orasafety vest you don't have to have insurance to plow
> You don't need ISO certification
> 
> I don't know, can you drive everything you own? As I don't assume that you can .
> Doyou hold the proper license.
> But then again you don't need a license to drive around the back 40 do you ?
> 
> Some people spend a lot of money saying that they're more safe in the name of professionalism .
> I'm just trying to gauge why the resistance ?Why not have one more thing in your quiver when you get called on the mat?


One more time... How does having a DOT number on the side of my truck or trailer make it more safe?


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## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> One more time... How does having a DOT number on the side of my truck or trailer make it more safe?


 How does education make one safer ?
How would having a record that doesn't show any incidentals, help you in a court of law?

How does looking or being professional help your business?
How does insurance make you safer?
How does the flashing light make you safer ?

But I'm just repeating myself.
If you or others wouldn't go back and read what's been posted ,why are you reading anything new?

If you guys come up with anything new that gets my interest , maybe I'll post in this one again but for now ,have fun


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## John_DeereGreen

I love it when people answer a legitimate question with questions totally irrelevant to the discussion. 

What benefit do I gain from the DOT number on all of my trucks? Aside from satisfying the state of Ohio in putting it on there.


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## Philbilly2

John_DeereGreen said:


> What benefit do I gain from the DOT number on all of my trucks? Aside from satisfying the state of Ohio in putting it on there.


You are not paying attention...

It makes you "look more professional" and "makes you safer"


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## NYH1

Hydromaster said:


> NY
> Looks at it this way
> 
> It is normally correct to register a truck as a commercial vehicle, even when it is not used for business. For example, many pick-up trucks that are never used for business are registered as commercial vehicles.
> 
> they don't care, he has nothing to worry about if Dot enforcemeant or the highway patrol pulled him over they just want to see his safety gear and it would be really odd for them to get out the scales, when he's pulling an RV .


New York State issues commercial license plates on all pickup trucks from Ford Rangers/Chevy S10's to 1 ton pickup trucks and beyond whether used for personal use or commerce. They're not considered commercial vehicles because they have commercial license plates unless used for business/commerce. There is no need for safety equipment when used for personal use.

If you're truck needs DOT numbers and you're only operating intrastate, you can get NYS DOT numbers instead of federal DOT number.

NYH1.


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## BUFF

Philbilly2 said:


> One more time... How does having a DOT number on the side of my truck or trailer make it more safe?


Pretty sure DOT numbers purpose was covered several pages back...…
Has this topic gone full circle?


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## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> How would having a record that doesn't show any incidentals, help you in a court of law?


OK... now we are getting somewhere.

So it will not make my trucks safer, but it will give me a record to bring to court. That I can work with.

Pretty sure I can prove the same general concept with a loss run.


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## Philbilly2

BUFF said:


> Pretty sure DOT numbers purpose was covered several pages back...…
> Has this topic gone full circle?


Pretty much.

What I learned today...

A DOT number makes you safe and professional. Thumbs UpThumbs Up

All who don't have one shall be shunned


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## Philbilly2

NYH1 said:


> New York State issues commercial license plates on all pickup trucks from Ford Rangers/Chevy S10's to 1 ton pickup trucks and beyond whether used for personal use or commerce. They're not considered commercial vehicles because they have commercial license plates unless used for business/commerce. There is no need for safety equipment when used for personal use.


Do you all have registration cards that you have to carry in the truck that says who is the owner of the power unit and or trailer if over a certain GVWR?


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## FredG

Philbilly2 said:


> Do you all have registration cards that you have to carry in the truck that says who is the owner of the power unit and or trailer if over a certain GVWR?


You need a registration in any vehicle, trailer if your hauling 25 ton or taking your Prius to go pickup milk.


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## NYH1

Philbilly2 said:


> Do you all have registration cards that you have to carry in the truck that says who is the owner of the power unit and or trailer if over a certain GVWR?


Yes you get a registration card. Every motor vehicle and trailer in NY has to be registered (motor vehicles need to be insured) to be operated or be towed on a road.

You have to present you're proof of registration (and insurance) to law enforcement upon request. It doesn't matter if it's a personal use vehicle/trailer or commercial use vehicle/trailer.

When I drove truck, the company's name was on all their truck and trailer registration cards. Same with their insurance cards for their trucks.

NYH1.


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## Philbilly2

FredG said:


> You need a registration in any vehicle, trailer if your hauling 25 ton or taking your Prius to go pickup milk.





NYH1 said:


> Yes you get a registration card. Every motor vehicle and trailer in NY has to be registered (motor vehicles need to be insured) to be operated or be towed on a road.
> 
> You have to present you're proof of registration (and insurance) to law enforcement upon request. It doesn't matter if it's a personal use vehicle/trailer or commercial use vehicle/trailer.
> 
> When I drove truck, the company's name was on all their truck and trailer registration cards. Same with their insurance cards for their trucks.
> 
> NYH1.


So would you both venture to say that your registration card is how they ID weather your power unit is a CMV in your state?

Or do they just take a look at what you are doing with it and say... "yep... that looks like that is commerce, you are a CMV right now..."


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## leigh

What about IFTA registration?


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## Philbilly2

leigh said:


> What about IFTA registration?


I hope we dont get to go into MC vs DOT...

I did quite a bit of reading trying to find out a benefit to a DOT number and read a whole bunch on the MC vs DOT bs.


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## leigh

Philbilly2 said:


> I hope we dont get to go into MC vs DOT...
> 
> I did quite a bit of reading trying to find out a benefit to a DOT number and read a whole bunch on the MC vs DOT bs.


 I don't think there's any "benefit" of a DOT #.Its just a bureaucratic structure for keeping track of certain classes of motor vehicles. No different than a license plate. Just another hoop to jump through to please "The Man"


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## John_DeereGreen

leigh said:


> What about IFTA registration?


IFTA and a little paperwork quarterly vs outrageous trip and fuel permits. Easy decision.


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## leigh

John_DeereGreen said:


> IFTA and a little paperwork quarterly vs outrageous trip and fuel permits. Easy decision.


 Especially if your running business close to state lines, its a necessity.


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## FredG

Philbilly2 said:


> So would you both venture to say that your registration card is how they ID weather your power unit is a CMV in your state?
> 
> Or do they just take a look at what you are doing with it and say... "yep... that looks like that is commerce, you are a CMV right now..."


 Technically you don't even need proof of insurance while in NY, they know if your insured by there computer. This don't mean I don't carry one but have not been asked for it while pulled over.

If your not loaded the cops don't care if you got DOT #'s or not in a pickup because your not over 10K. As far as commercial plates both of my BIL have jobs and don't haul anything and are both commercially plated have no idea why but everybody does it.

I have posted many pictures of 10 wheel dumps with no DOT #'s, how do they get away with it, again have no idea. Plenty of guys pulling small single axle trailers with small mowers or snow blowers with no logo or DOT #'s.

Again I have no desire to have my company logo or DOT #'s I do it for when I am loaded in a pickup, the dumps are a no brainier because of there weight they carry. Only good thing about a logo is to Identify yourself on a job or a guy hoping a potential client gets your name and number.

Thank God my business does not come from potential clients anymore. I have my clients and have no desire for anyone to be contacting me accept from a referral from my clients. Other than that I'm happy with my earnings and have no desire to grow.


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## m_ice

FredG said:


> Technically you don't even need proof of insurance while in NY, they know if your insured by there computer.


True...also technically you dont even have to stop for those pricks, if they dont catch you they can just look in the computer and find you.


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## FredG

m_ice said:


> True...also technically you dont even have to stop for those pricks, if they dont catch you they can just look in the computer and find you.


Fo sho. :laugh:


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## NYH1

Philbilly2 said:


> So would you both venture to say that your registration card is how they ID weather your power unit is a CMV in your state?
> 
> Or do they just take a look at what you are doing with it and say... "yep... that looks like that is commerce, you are a CMV right now..."


Yes, the registration card would say COM for commercial on it. They'd more then likely know which type of registration it was before they got to the vehicle. When they run the license plate, they have access to all types of information.

If you have a pistol permit, some counties put that on your DMV info too. I forgot exactly how they do it. A few of my buddies are local cops and mentioned it. I assume they know and don't do anything but put my hands on the steering wheel and tell them up front that I'm carrying even if they don't ask.

NYH1.


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## FredG

NYH1 said:


> Yes, the registration card would say COM for commercial on it. They'd more then likely know which type of registration it was before they got to the vehicle. When they run the license plate, they have access to all types of information.
> 
> If you have a pistol permit, some counties put that on your DMV info too. I forgot exactly how they do it. A few of my buddies are local cops and mentioned it. I assume they know and don't do anything but put my hands on the steering wheel and tell them up front that I'm carrying even if they don't ask.
> 
> NYH1.


 Ditto especially if it's state police, you get some nut that knows he's going home after his shift and been shot at before. These maniacs up here like shooting at the state police, on the news all the time.

If nothing else they will draw on you. That's farther than I choose to go.


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## 1olddogtwo

This thread is still going?


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## Randall Ave

1olddogtwo said:


> This thread is still going?


Like a Chinese road map


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## NYH1

FredG said:


> Technically you don't even need proof of insurance while in NY, they know if your insured by there computer. This don't mean I don't carry one but have not been asked for it while pulled over.


Fred, you have to have proof of insurance in New Yorkistan. I got a ticket for only having an expired insurance card a few years back. When cops run you license plate they'll be able to tell if your registration and/or insurance are up to date. You still have to provide both upon request.

https://dmv.ny.gov/insurance/insurance-requirements
*Do I need insurance to register my vehicle?  *
Yes. The DMV requires auto liability insurance to register a vehicle in New York. When you get insurance, your insurance company will issue proof of insurance in two ways. It will


give you two original NY State Insurance ID Cards (see a sample) or provide you with access to your digital electronic NY State Insurance ID Card 3
send an electronic notice of insurance coverage to the DMV (your insurance agent or broker cannot file this notice)
Your NY State Insurance Identification Cards and the electronic notice of insurance together verify your insurance coverage. We need both.

You must register your vehicle at the DMV within 180 days of the effective date on your insurance ID card. Bring one copy or form of your Insurance Identification Cards with you. The DMV office will keep the paper card. Keep the other paper card with the vehicle as your proof of insurance. *Anyone operating your vehicle must be able to provide proof of insurance while they are operating the vehicle.*


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## NYH1

FredG said:


> Ditto especially if it's state police, you get some nut that knows he's going home after his shift and been shot at before. These maniacs up here like shooting at the state police, on the news all the time.
> 
> If nothing else they will draw on you. That's farther than I choose to go.


My experience carrying and being pulled over. Unless you're doing something really wrong, most cops don't like dealing with people that have guns, legally or illegally. They usually check you drivers license and pistol permit and send you one your way asap. Generally skipping right of the "giving you a ticket" part. 

NYH1.


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## BUFF

1olddogtwo said:


> This thread is still going?


Think it's gone full circle a couple times..... but due to the efforts of Fred it keeps on going for another lap....almost seems like he's fishing.......


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## FredG

BUFF said:


> Think it's gone full circle a couple times..... but due to the efforts of Fred it keeps on going for another lap....almost seems like he's fishing.......


 Not fishing no more, already caught the big one.


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## FredG

NYH1 said:


> Fred, you have to have proof of insurance in New Yorkistan. I got a ticket for only having an expired insurance card a few years back. When cops run you license plate they'll be able to tell if your registration and/or insurance are up to date. You still have to provide both upon request.
> 
> https://dmv.ny.gov/insurance/insurance-requirements
> *Do I need insurance to register my vehicle?  *
> Yes. The DMV requires auto liability insurance to register a vehicle in New York. When you get insurance, your insurance company will issue proof of insurance in two ways. It will
> 
> 
> give you two original NY State Insurance ID Cards (see a sample) or provide you with access to your digital electronic NY State Insurance ID Card 3
> send an electronic notice of insurance coverage to the DMV (your insurance agent or broker cannot file this notice)
> Your NY State Insurance Identification Cards and the electronic notice of insurance together verify your insurance coverage. We need both.
> 
> You must register your vehicle at the DMV within 180 days of the effective date on your insurance ID card. Bring one copy or form of your Insurance Identification Cards with you. The DMV office will keep the paper card. Keep the other paper card with the vehicle as your proof of insurance. *Anyone operating your vehicle must be able to provide proof of insurance while they are operating the vehicle.*


Look the last times I been pulled over I had my insurance card ready and the cops don't want it. I already said I keep one anyways, you guys with these links are enough to make someone go crazy.  :laugh:


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## FredG

NYH1 said:


> My experience carrying and being pulled over. Unless you're doing something really wrong, most cops don't like dealing with people that have guns, legally or illegally. They usually check you drivers license and pistol permit and send you one your way asap. Generally skipping right of the "giving you a ticket" part.
> 
> NYH1.


 In these parts with a pistol and no permit your getting jammed up quick if they find it. You will need the cash or a bail bondsman. If you can't do either enjoy your vacation at the crowbar motel.


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## BUFF

FredG said:


> Not fishing no more, already caught the big one.


Well I'm bummed..... all I caught was a guppy earlier....


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## FredG

BUFF said:


> Well I'm bummed..... all I caught was a guppy earlier....


 On a serious note my guys went perch fishing today, got my mouth watering for some. Told me they didn't get any or got greedy with them. I had a burger and some chips.


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## NYH1

FredG said:


> In these parts with a pistol and no permit your getting jammed up quick if they find it. You will need the cash or a bail bondsman. If you can't do either enjoy your vacation at the crowbar motel.


If you get caught anywhere in New Yorkistan with a pistol, without a permit....you're screwed. Got mine as soon as I was old enough. 

NYH1.


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## MSsnowplowing

Hydromaster said:


> I've had to drag off a dead horse before so I'll give this one another bump
> 
> Maybe John Deere green, phill Billy or somebody else can explain this to me.
> 
> All of you use a warning light on the roof of your truck and or few strobes and really light up your truck. your sidewalk crew or yourself wouldn't go outside without a reflective safety vest on,
> You carry liability insurance for a slip and falls,
> Some of you were even discussing the need to be ISO certified ,
> All this has to do with safety.
> 
> Why are some of you so adamant about not getting or needing a DOT number ?
> 
> You do all the other stuff in the name of safety why are you dropping the ball here ?


I don't know about in your state but in CT you get DOT numbers your more visible and more likely to be pulled over because of them.

Your also spending a lot more money for those DOT numbers.

If you were running a trucking company, no problem, just plowing snow on private property there is no need.

And most guys use their plow truck for personal use when not plowing. 
How would you like to be heading down to the beach with the family and get pulled over by DOT to do a inspection -(in CT they can pull over anyone with DOT numbers anytime for no reason and conduct a inspection)

So sure let's give the state more money and invite them to be able to pull you over for no other reason other than you have DOT numbers on a regular 1 ton truck.

No thank you.


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## MSsnowplowing

m_ice said:


> True...also technically you dont even have to stop for those pricks, if they dont catch you they can just look in the computer and find you.


I know one guy who had DOT numbers on his truck.

He got a ticket in the mail from a DOT officer who was driving down the road and passed him, he never got pulled over.


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## John_DeereGreen

MSsnowplowing said:


> I don't know about in your state but in CT you get DOT numbers your more visible and more likely to be pulled over because of them.
> 
> Your also spending a lot more money for those DOT numbers.
> 
> If you were running a trucking company, no problem, just plowing snow on private property there is no need.
> 
> And most guys use their plow truck for personal use when not plowing.
> How would you like to be heading down to the beach with the family and get pulled over by DOT to do a inspection -(in CT they can pull over anyone with DOT numbers anytime for no reason and conduct a inspection)
> 
> So sure let's give the state more money and invite them to be able to pull you over for no other reason other than you have DOT numbers on a regular 1 ton truck.
> 
> No thank you.


Just curious. What are you spending a lot of money on for a DOT number?


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## FredG

John_DeereGreen said:


> Just curious. What are you spending a lot of money on for a DOT number?


 I'm not 100% sure because my memory is not what it use to be. I'm thinking my DOT #'s were free or a one time fee. The only thing I remember paying yearly not on pickups are the hut on the dumps. You pay by the miles your big trucks ran. It's not expensive but a PITA with all the paper work and proof of miles.


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## FredG

1olddogtwo said:


> This thread is still going?


 This post is.......


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## John_DeereGreen

FredG said:


> I'm not 100% sure because my memory is not what it use to be. I'm thinking my DOT #'s were free or a one time fee. The only thing I remember paying yearly not on pickups are the hut on the dumps. You pay by the miles your big trucks ran. It's not expensive but a PITA with all the paper work and proof of miles.


Yeah DOT numbers are free. I don't know jack about NY HUT but my IFTA stickers just require mileage per state and fuel purchase tracking, and a quarterly filing of fuel tax that you either owe or get back depending on where you bought your fuel and where you drove the miles.

In one trip out of state a year with CDL weight requirements its worthwhile to deal with the little paperwork IFTA takes for me.


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## FredG

John_DeereGreen said:


> Yeah DOT numbers are free. I don't know jack about NY HUT but my IFTA stickers just require mileage per state and fuel purchase tracking, and a quarterly filing of fuel tax that you either owe or get back depending on where you bought your fuel and where you drove the miles.
> 
> In one trip out of state a year with CDL weight requirements its worthwhile to deal with the little paperwork IFTA takes for me.


I never had to deal with the international fuel tax stuff. I'm not even sure I have to. I been through the Canadian border with no questions about fuel while buying equipment. Don't know.


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## Mark Oomkes

MSsnowplowing said:


> I know one guy who had DOT numbers on his truck.
> 
> He got a ticket in the mail from a DOT officer who was driving down the road and passed him, he never got pulled over.


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## John_DeereGreen

FredG said:


> I never had to deal with the international fuel tax stuff. I'm not even sure I have to. I been through the Canadian border with no questions about fuel while buying equipment. Don't know.


IFTA is only relevant if you're out of your registered (home) state in a vehicle that is above 26000# so you shouldn't ever have to worry about it with doing what you do. I just did it because it was easier than pulling trip and fuel permits when I go out of state with the gooseneck etc.


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## leigh

I just realized that after reading and commenting on this thread that I'm really not sure what CDL even stands for. Thought it was a Canadian license maybe? Can someone just sum up one more time who needs a cdl and that medical card .


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## Philbilly2

leigh said:


> I just realized that after reading and commenting on this thread that I'm really not sure what CDL even stands for. Thought it was a Canadian license maybe? Can someone just sum up one more time who needs a cdl and that medical card .


----------



## plow4beer

leigh said:


> I just realized that after reading and commenting on this thread that I'm really not sure what CDL even stands for. Thought it was a Canadian license maybe? Can someone just sum up one more time who needs a cdl and that medical card .


"C"onsuming "D"elicious "L"iquor

I didn't make it very far into this thread before I became perplexed, flummoxed, and down right discombobulated...but some of that may have to do with my hangover.


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## leigh

plow4beer said:


> "C"onsuming "D"elicious "L"iquor
> 
> I didn't make it very far into this thread before I became perplexed, flummoxed, and down right discombobulated...but some of that may have to do with my hangover.


 Hangover ? Rookie !


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## plow4beer

leigh said:


> Hangover ? Rookie !


If you don't have a hangover, then it just means your a quitter


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## jomama45

Mark Oomkes said:


> View attachment 190235


File GIF.......


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## jomama45

plow4beer said:


> If you don't have a hangover, then it just means your a quitter


I felt like I had a hangover this morning, first in a long time. Pretty sure it's from a lack of sleep and too much plowing yesterday, and not enough alcohol. I've made my mind up that I need to quit plowing snow and focus on drinking more in winter........


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## plow4beer

jomama45 said:


> I felt like I had a hangover this morning, first in a long time. Pretty sure it's from a lack of sleep and too much plowing yesterday, and not enough alcohol. I've made my mind up that I need to quit plowing snow and focus on drinking more in winter........


Thumbs Up


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## Mike_PS

well, thinking this has finally run its course


----------

