# Whats your fuel usage with any tier4 diesels your running?



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

We have multiple JD skid steers, all D series cab machines from 2010-2013. We rented a 329E model with no hours on it and another with 300hrs on it, both 2013 models, with the 3.1L yanmar diesel and DPF.... both machines are sucking through fuel so quick you'd swear they sprung a leak in the tank.

When the engine is loaded, they're using considerably more than our comperable machines with tier 3 JD engines. not working them as hard still is noticable but not the 2-1 ratio for fuel usage.

I'm estimating these two machines, when doing the same snow work as the JD diesel machines, are using twice the fuel... or about 5+ gph versus about 2-3 of the JD engine machines.

All the machines that are 2010-2012 are tier3 JD 2.4L 4 cylinders or 3.0L 5 cylinders, and use about 2/3gph respectively. The yanmar 3.1L engine machines are using a minimum of about 4.5 and maximum of almost 6... which seems impossible. 

The two 329E machines on different sites, with 10' snow boxes on them are low on fuel after 4-6hrs and taking 21-25 gallons to refuel. which i the best is 21 gallons in 6hrs is 3.5gph... but i don't have exact #s so at best they're getting 3.5gph usage... 

All of the JD machines can run for 9-13hrs usually before they're low. 


The dealer said this is normal.

Our 12 329D with the 3.0L 5cyl JD engine is the SAME machine as these and doesnt suck fuel... the 329E machine lists sticker price at almost 9 grand more than what the 329D list price was a year ago :/

I have to say, we will not be keeping either machine!


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## jbutch83 (Sep 30, 2002)

We are running 2 Bobcat toolcats, one is 2 years old and the second one we just took delivery of last week, it is brand new. We were out blowing back snow, both ran same amount of time, and the new one was on E and the older one was just between half and quarter of a tank left. New one is tier 4 engine.


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

yea for the environment huh epa.... :waving::waving:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

edgeair;1758556 said:


> yea for the environment huh epa.... :waving::waving:


Nixon was an idiot in so many ways.

Freaking brilliant. As usual, they are not more efficient and will cost more to maintain and repair.

Man I love government.


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

Mark Oomkes;1758842 said:


> Nixon was an idiot in so many ways.
> 
> Freaking brilliant. As usual, they are not more efficient and will cost more to maintain and repair.
> 
> Man I love government.


To them it's all about the smelly stuff that comes out the pipe. Doesn't matter that you burn 2x as much and the environmental impact that has....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

edgeair;1758895 said:


> To them it's all about the smelly stuff that comes out the pipe. Doesn't matter that you burn 2x as much and the environmental impact that has....


Yes sir, there goes the resale value on pre Tier 4 equipment. Sky high, that is.


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

Mark Oomkes;1759300 said:


> Yes sir, there goes the resale value on pre Tier 4 equipment. Sky high, that is.


Problem is, those that own them won't want to let them go (like me) because why would I want to trade to something that burns more fuel. Funny thing is, highway trucks in some cases have improved in the last stage or two. I guess the equipment companies have a ways to go before that happens.


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Mark Oomkes;1759300 said:


> Yes sir, there goes the resale value on pre Tier 4 equipment. Sky high, that is.


You're not the only one who's noticed. Prices on used iron are up lately and I can't help but wonder if this isn't a large contributing factor.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

peteo1;1759482 said:


> You're not the only one who's noticed. Prices on used iron are up lately and I can't help but wonder if this isn't a large contributing factor.


We bought a 2012 323D track JD tier 3 in December too, with 225hrs on it and nearly new, we still paid almost full price. The tier4 machine is 9k more and JD has only made minor "nice" changes to the hood latch system and rear bumper itself. The few minor changes can't cost that much more.

Facts are... the machine sucks fuel, it feels dead in re-gen mode, more hp feels like a little less even when not in regen mode and biggest of them all, cant make it through a snow storm without refueling midway through :/


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

peteo1;1759482 said:


> You're not the only one who's noticed. Prices on used iron are up lately and I can't help but wonder if this isn't a large contributing factor.


And part of it is that its taking these already expensive machines and making them unattainable to the average company.

What used to already cost $75k is now $85k... im sorry but 75k for any skid/track machine is already the celing... thats nearly a hundred grand with an extra bucket and sales tax!!


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## BMWSTUD25 (Aug 21, 2008)

My new T590 is burning about 2 gal an hour plowing snow and clearing sidewalks. I'm pretty happy with it so far as we approach 100 hours.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Im in the market for a new skid steer for next season and the Bobcat salesman was bosting about the new tier 4 engines and how much better theyre going to be, bla, bla, bla and I was talking to a guy who just bought one and he said the same as you guys, it sucks down fuel like Kool Aid! Im keeping my eyes out for a 2010-11 model.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

I might as well stick 10k into my New Holland and make it look and run like its brand new, I'd probably be further ahead.


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

BMWSTUD25;1760289 said:


> My new T590 is burning about 2 gal an hour plowing snow and clearing sidewalks. I'm pretty happy with it so far as we approach 100 hours.


What are you running on it for an attachment?


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## BMWSTUD25 (Aug 21, 2008)

edgeair;1760317 said:


> What are you running on it for an attachment?


When we are doing walks, either a 66" bucket or our 68" power broom. When we are doing lots, it usually has our 100" snow bucket or occasionally our 10' box. Goes about 11 hours on a tankful.

I can't say as though I'm unhappy at all though.....when its side by side with our Cat 297c it goes about 3-4 more hours before it needs fuel but I realize they are very different machines.


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## Greenmtboy (Jan 22, 2011)

This last storm I averaged 2.6 gph with my 262C, ran over 15 hrs. straight. I thought it was going to be 3 or a little more, I was working it hard.


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## Ditchdiggin (Oct 17, 2008)

Greenmtboy: Are those fenders on your skid steer? I'm not that up to date on the Cat stuff but is that a factory item? Also what tires and how do you like them? Thanks!

Now back to the topic... I'm in the market for a new machine but this has me having some second thoughts. I have a S175 Bobcat now and it'll burn around 2.5-3 gph with a 88" snow bucket working it pretty hard. Summertime in the dirt averages around 1.5 gph.


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

BMWSTUD25;1761039 said:


> When we are doing walks, either a 66" bucket or our 68" power broom. When we are doing lots, it usually has our 100" snow bucket or occasionally our 10' box. Goes about 11 hours on a tankful.
> 
> I can't say as though I'm unhappy at all though.....when its side by side with our Cat 297c it goes about 3-4 more hours before it needs fuel but I realize they are very different machines.


Yeah that's not too shabby. I find with skid steers if you can get the operator to not go full throttle all the time it makes a huge difference.

There's absolutely no reason to run full throttle on anything unless you need every bit of hydraulic flow (like running a blower when you are trying to get distance out of it).

My S250 (80hp) will go as long as 15 hours if you are doing loader work and keep the revs down to 1600 (lots of power still at that rpm). That's on about 60-70L roughly (17 US gal = just over 1 gph). But when its on its driveway route running the blower and road travel, it will go through that in less than 8 hours (over 2gph). This is on a 2008 model year so none of the emissions crap.

I was going to trade last year on a Cat 262 brand new (pre DPF) which I maybe should have done, but the trade value they would give me on mine wasn't what I felt the loader was worth, not even close. Now I am thinking I'll keep it for a few more years until they get the kinks worked out of the tier 4 stuff.


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## Greenmtboy (Jan 22, 2011)

Ditchdiggin;1761212 said:


> Greenmtboy: Are those fenders on your skid steer? I'm not that up to date on the Cat stuff but is that a factory item? Also what tires and how do you like them? Thanks!
> 
> Now back to the topic... I'm in the market for a new machine but this has me having some second thoughts. I have a S175 Bobcat now and it'll burn around 2.5-3 gph with a 88" snow bucket working it pretty hard. Summertime in the dirt averages around 1.5 gph.


Check this out http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=125732

I'm definitely not a fan of tier4, almost makes you want to go out and buy a couple used ones to have for later use haha.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Ramairfreak98ss;1759639 said:


> What used to already cost *$75k is now $85k*... im sorry but 75k for any skid/track machine is already the celing... thats nearly a hundred grand with an extra bucket and sales tax!!


If that's what you're paying for new 329D/E machines, then you need a new dealer and fast.

I'd sell you all the 329E machines you want, loaded with everything but high flow and reversing fan for 75K, including an extra bucket and tax.

With that being said, yes they're harder on fuel, I don't like it either. I'm of the same theory as someone above...how is it better for the environment if you burn more fuel, no matter how much lower the emissions out the exhaust are? It has to go somewhere...


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

Was at the local Bobcat dealer looking at attachments, and he has a 2012 leftover S770 (with the kubota engine) that he put a pretty good price on. Joysticks, high flow, 2 speed, power bobtach, attachment control kit, and an 80" bucket all for about 53k Canadian (around 48k US). 

Thought about it, but with the other recent acquisitions I have made I don't really want another payment and they weren't offering great money for a trade in on my S250, pre emissions and all.


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## BMWSTUD25 (Aug 21, 2008)

a picture of our new T590 Tier 4 and the new blade just installed today. So far the only issue we have had was a plugged fuel filter, which is more like an entire canister assembly.


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## lawnprofrench (Nov 15, 2010)

jbutch83;1758495 said:


> We are running 2 Bobcat toolcats, one is 2 years old and the second one we just took delivery of last week, it is brand new. We were out blowing back snow, both ran same amount of time, and the new one was on E and the older one was just between half and quarter of a tank left. New one is tier 4 engine.


sent you a private message.


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## ChevKid03 (Dec 23, 2007)

edgeair;1771422 said:


> Was at the local Bobcat dealer looking at attachments, and he has a 2012 leftover S770 (with the kubota engine) that he put a pretty good price on. Joysticks, high flow, 2 speed, power bobtach, attachment control kit, and an 80" bucket all for about 53k Canadian (around 48k US).
> 
> Thought about it, but with the other recent acquisitions I have made I don't really want another payment and they weren't offering great money for a trade in on my S250, pre emissions and all.


Just for S&G what did they offer you for trade in on your 250? How many hours on it and options?


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

ChevKid03;1773297 said:


> Just for S&G what did they offer you for trade in on your 250? How many hours on it and options?


They didn't look at my machine. It's 2 speed high flow, gold package, a/c, acs controls, attachment control kit, deluxe keyless panel, 2 new tires, 1400 hrs. They were suggesting first off, 20k trade. After I kind of laughed, he called back a couple days later and said more like 22. I'm not going to let it go for that. I've owned it since new and taken good care of it and it shows well. I'll keep it and run it but I was curious how the numbers would be considering the onset of the tier 4's. Seems like that isn't a factor.


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