# Loader verse plow



## Mustang (Feb 20, 2004)

I am currently running a number of plow trucks (Western Pro Plus, Blizzard 8611, 810s and have always been intrigued by loaders. Many a night I have been out there plowing and scraping when a loader shows up at a nearby property moving massive amounts of snow and the envy just oozes out of me. I really have no need for a loader other than snow so if I were to take the plunge I would have to justify it as a snow only machine. What are the considerations you have to think about when considering a loader? What size would be midrange that would give me considerable time savings verse a plow? Are loaders truly that much more productive than plow trucks as they look (or more so?)? Total newbie to a loader so any advice would be appreciated.


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## Snowman (Sep 17, 2016)

I have a 5085e tractor with 10ft pusher and it will move 10x the snow any of my trucks will. So yes a loader would put a truck to shame


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Loaders rule the day when it comes to moving large amounts of snow quickly. I transitioned my snow business from a fleet of trucks to a fleet of loaders, and I never want to go back to having a fleet of pick up trucks again. I have dropped all of my small accounts and only take on new accounts that require the big iron on site


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

I got 4 loaders that don't work in the summer months, Stay in that $18k to 25k it will support itself. You don't have to feed and water them while not in use.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

They come in all sizes and hp.
They are not for every parking lot. 
Visibility is better then a skid and truck.
We run small to medium(ish) loaders. All depends upon the operator as well.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

We've got 2 621 Case loaders that are pushing 14 foot Arctic sectionals. In just about every case since we got them they will replace 2 trucks, most times 3 trucks.

Buy used loaders, 25k each and in less than 3 seasons you'll have paid for it instead of leasing them just for snow.



Snowman said:


> I have a 5085e tractor with 10ft pusher and it will move 10x the snow any of my trucks will. So yes a loader would put a truck to shame


What are the trucks you're plowing with, 20 year old Tacomas?

I'm all for machines but you've got to be honest about production rates. A tractor with a 10 foot box on the loader is no more than 25% faster than a truck. To say it's 10x more productive is insane.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> We've got 2 621 Case loaders that are pushing 14 foot Arctic sectionals. In just about every case since we got them they will replace 2 trucks, most times 3 trucks.
> 
> Buy used loaders, 25k each and in less than 3 seasons you'll have paid for it instead of leasing them just for snow.
> 
> ...


I been considering a Case, The parts and Dealers are all over, Would a 621 take more than the 14ft box if needed? The hoes are about the only thing anybody owns around here. A decent case will bring all of 25K in this area.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I wouldn't have any issue putting a 16 foot box on one with good tires. They're 28k pounds plus. The reason ours have 14's is 1 it's all I could find fast and local and 2 we do road them from time to time.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Snowman said:


> I have a 5085e tractor with 10ft pusher and it will move 10x the snow any of my trucks will. So yes a loader would put a truck to shame


This is bovine excrement.

My tractor with plows will, conservatively, move 50% more snow than a truck. Same plows, front and back. At times, it's closer to 100%, but I don't want to sound like a :terribletowel:.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mustang said:


> What are the considerations you have to think about when considering a loader?


First oof, I hope all is well for you. And it's good to hear from you again.

Second, repair bills will be higher when something breaks.

Third, you need an operator or the repairs for the loader and property are going to bankrupt you. You can't throw anyone in it and tell them to have at it.

Those are the basics to start thinking aboot. What size? What size lots are you plowing? I know snowfall varies greatly for you, but how mulch on average?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> First oof, I hope all is well for you. And it's good to hear from you again.
> 
> Second, repair bills will be higher when something breaks.
> 
> ...


You mean the guy :terribletowel: that comes in looking for work and tells you if it got wheels he can operate it. Thumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

FredG said:


> You mean the guy :terribletowel: that comes in looking for work and tells you if it got wheels he can operate it. Thumbs Up


Yes, that one.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

FredG said:


> You mean the guy :terribletowel: that comes in looking for work and tells you if it got wheels he can operate it. Thumbs Up





Mark Oomkes said:


> Yes, that one.


I am offended... 

And it doesn't need wheels... tracks or floats are fine...


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I bought my first loader 4 years ago fiat Allis fr10 I run a boss bx12. I would say it replaced two trucks for the most part. On two accounts with stacking locations its 3 to 1 all day long. On one account that we do a lot of windowing it doesn't shine like a truck with a blizzard plow does. So chose your poison right tool for the right job.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I do s couple of small lots 4 passes all done. I almost felt guilty the first year but it's an investment.


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## Snowman (Sep 17, 2016)

John_DeereGreen said:


> We've got 2 621 Case loaders that are pushing 14 foot Arctic sectionals. In just about every case since we got them they will replace 2 trucks, most times 3 trucks.
> 
> Buy used loaders, 25k each and in less than 3 seasons you'll have paid for it instead of leasing them just for snow.
> 
> ...


Haha I use my tractor on a large commercial lot that all the snow has to be carried to one end. My pusher is 10' wide 42" deep and 39" high. I have 3500 trucks with 8 1/2' straight blade. You can't tell me that box won't carry 10x the snow. I didn't say rolling snowing. I said moving. Trucks are for tight areas and putting snow where the pusher can carry it


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Snowman said:


> Haha I use my tractor on a large commercial lot that all the snow has to be carried to one end. My pusher is 10' wide 42" deep and 39" high. I have 3500 trucks with 8 1/2' straight blade. You can't tell me that box won't carry 10x the snow. I didn't say rolling snowing. I said moving. Trucks are for tight areas and putting snow where the pusher can carry it


I'm telling you it isn't 10x as much.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Snowman said:


> Haha I use my tractor on a large commercial lot that all the snow has to be carried to one end. My pusher is 10' wide 42" deep and 39" high. I have 3500 trucks with 8 1/2' straight blade. You can't tell me that box won't carry 10x the snow. I didn't say rolling snowing. I said moving. Trucks are for tight areas and putting snow where the pusher can carry it


So how long does it take with a truck to plow this property?


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## Snowman (Sep 17, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm telling you it isn't 10x as much.


So you think you can take a 8 1/2' plow and move all snow 700' across a parking lot and stack it faster. I'd have to see it to believe it. I didn't say a vplow or wideout. Just a straight plow. But I can take a plow and smoke tractor 2 to 1 on small lot that I can roll snow to edge of lot


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## Snowman (Sep 17, 2016)

John_DeereGreen said:


> So how long does it take with a truck to plow this property?[/QUO





John_DeereGreen said:


> So how long does it take with a truck to plow this property?


I wouldn't attempt it with 1 truck. I use 4 trucks and tractor. and time would depend on if there is 1 inch or 5 inches or 12 inches of snow


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Snowman said:


> Haha I use my tractor on a large commercial lot that all the snow has to be carried to one end. My pusher is 10' wide 42" deep and 39" high. I have 3500 trucks with 8 1/2' straight blade. You can't tell me that box won't carry 10x the snow. I didn't say rolling snowing. I said moving. Trucks are for tight areas and putting snow where the pusher can carry it


So your comparing the pusher to a straight blade. 
Wanna compare ground speed and call it a fair fight?


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## Snowman (Sep 17, 2016)

dieselss said:


> So your comparing the pusher to a straight blade.
> Wanna compare ground speed and call it a fair fight?


On this lot I would. So many shopping cart racks you can't roll snow worth crap. It would be straight blade all the way. But I'm sorry you guys must know my lot better than me. Are you the guy who had it before and put all those snow pyramids everywhere and turned it into a maze?


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## Snowman (Sep 17, 2016)

To the op these guys are right. Don't get a loader. Buy a blazer with a 7' plow and go make bank


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

This lot, that lot, since it's all in YOUR head no one can say. You'll just keep making up whatever you want to prove seasoned professionals wrong.
How close are you getting time those carts and cars with the loader again?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Snowman said:


> I wouldn't attempt it with 1 truck. I use 4 trucks and tractor. and time would depend on if there is 1 inch or 5 inches or 12 inches of snow


If the tractor is so great why are you still using trucks there?


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## Snowman (Sep 17, 2016)

dieselss said:


> This lot, that lot, since it's all in YOUR head no one can say. You'll just keep making up whatever you want to prove seasoned professionals wrong.
> How close are you getting time those carts and cars with the loader again?


So because I'm new to plowsite means I'm a newbie? I've been in the business since 2002. Sorry preaching on plowsite don't make me money. its funny how somebody asks a question and when they get an answer a couple of so called pros want to criticize someone's input


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## Snowman (Sep 17, 2016)

Snowman said:


> So because I'm new to plowsite means I'm a newbie? I've been in the business since 2002. Sorry preaching on plowsite don't make me money. its funny how somebody asks a question and when they get an answer a couple of so called pros want to criticize someone's input


so with 13 years plowing into his will be 14 I would like to think I was a seasoned pro. One day I will be a plowsite seasoned pro too


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Snowman said:


> so with 13 years plowing into his will be 14 I would like to think I was a seasoned pro. One day I will be a plowsite seasoned pro too


When I grow up I want to be just like you.


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## Snowman (Sep 17, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> When I grow up I want to be just like you.


Boy I sure hope so. Good luck on that


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Snowman said:


> So because I'm new to plowsite means I'm a newbie? I've been in the business since 2002. Sorry preaching on plowsite don't make me money. its funny how somebody asks a question and when they get an answer a couple of so called pros want to criticize someone's input


Your input is being criticized because your input is flawed...Your trolling guys with MANY years of experience.....Be careful not to dig to big of a ditch....


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

None of us are criticizing anything. Just calling out bull**** as we see it. 

There is no possible way that a 10 foot box moves 10 times the snow compared to a truck. If we can only replace 3 trucks with a 14 foot loader push box and 28k pound loader, then there's no possible way a 10 foot skid steer box on a 9k pound tractor does what 10 trucks will do. 

Even Walt Disney couldn't pull that kind of imagination off.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> When I grow up I want to be just like you.


I thought you said you wanted to be like me???


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Snowman said:


> Boy I sure hope so. Good luck on that


If it matters, I started with loaders and pushers 6 years before you started plowing snow.

I started plowing 17 years before you did.

So don't try to tell me that a 5083 will plow 10x as much as 1 truck.

If it matters, I currently run 4 tractors plus loaders, trucks and skidsteers.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I thought you said you wanted to be like me???


I already am.


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## Snowman (Sep 17, 2016)

I joined plowsite for info on a brine maker from one member. Got what I needed. Don't need to gossip with snow gods. I'm done preach on plowsite pros


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> If it matters, I started with loaders and pushers 6 years before you started plowing snow.
> 
> I started plowing 17 years before you did.
> 
> ...


How old are you???...I mean age not mentality....


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Snowman said:


> I joined plowsite for info on a brine maker from one member. Got what I needed. Don't need to gossip with snow gods. I'm done preach on plowsite pros


None of us ever claimed anything....But we will call out BS when we read it...I'm sorry your feelings are hurt...Good Luck this winter


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> How old are you???...I mean age not mentality....


Not mulch younger than you.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

I believe what they are trying to say is that if you have a lot that takes one hour to clear with the tractor/loader that its probably not going to take 10 hours (10 times) to clear with the truck.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I believe what they are trying to say is that if you have a lot that takes one hour to clear with the tractor/loader that its probably not going to take 10 hours (10 times) to clear with the truck.


No need to muddy this up with math...


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Defcon 5 said:


> No need to muddy this up with math...


The guy must be using that new common core math.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I believe what they are trying to say is that if you have a lot that takes one hour to clear with the tractor/loader that its probably not going to take 10 hours (10 times) to clear with the truck.


Stop trying to use logical thought process... it confuses the mathletes...


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Stop trying to use logical thought process... it confuses the mathletes...


I know I know, but I was thinking I have a lot that took me an hour on average with a pick up and if I put a loader there it would take me 6 minutes.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I know I know, but I was thinking I have a lot that took me an hour on average with a pick up and if I put a loader there it would take me 6 minutes.


We call that Jimmy John's pace round here. Freaky Fast, Freaky Good.

Now just think if you had 2 loaders on that site... the oil would not even come up to operating temp before you are done!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I know I know, but I was thinking I have a lot that took me an hour on average with a pick up and if I put a loader there it would take me 6 minutes.


You don't even need a loader, just an 85 HP tractor with a 10' pusher.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You don't even need a loader, just an 85 HP tractor with a 10' pusher.


I will take a Cummings with an 8611 over that...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Defcon 5 said:


> I will take a Cummings with an 8611 over that...


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


>


Thats hilarious. Double stacking mirrors on top of my tow mirrors, stacking stacks on top of my stacks.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Lmao


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


>


Couple of :terribletowel:'s :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :hammerhead:


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


>


Were you in Grand Rapids????....Thats the Oomkes Cruiser...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Defcon 5 said:


> Were you in Grand Rapids????....Thats the Oomkes Cruiser...


I was unaware that he had stacked stacks on top of his stacks...stacked.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> I was unaware that he had stacked stacks on top of his stacks...stacked.


Along with the tow mirrors and no trailer hitch, go figure.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Well crap, I've been ooted.


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

I have 2 case 521 and use kage 14 foot plows I find it to be good match ,, dont have many problems ,, we do a Target in the past it took 3 trucks about 2 hrs per truck ,,, Now I can plat it with one loader in 1 hr and 20 min ,,,, we just bought are 3rd Case 521 today and will have it next week, with this combo we have plenty of power and able to push a full plow ,,,,


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## Weanis (Feb 2, 2011)

FredG said:


> I got 4 loaders that don't work in the summer months, Stay in that $18k to 25k it will support itself. You don't have to feed and water them while not in use.


What loaders are you running in that price range? I can't seem to find anything decent around here for that price. Maybe I'm just being to picky?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Weanis said:


> What loaders are you running in that price range? I can't seem to find anything decent around here for that price. Maybe I'm just being to picky?


You got to know how to buy too. Last season a friend of mine bought terex off a farmer for $6500.00. It runs and operates awesome. If your looking for a $50K loader and want to pay $25k good luck.

All kind of case, cat out there for $25k. If your having a hard time I will agree. To picky. You can't look at the paint and determine if it would make you a good loader. Most loaders in that price range are going to need some reconditioning. Appearance wise anyways.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

FredG said:


> You got to know how to buy too. Last season a friend of mine bought terex off a farmer for $6500.00. It runs and operates awesome. If your looking for a $50K loader and want to pay $25k good luck.
> 
> All kind of case, cat out there for $25k. If your having a hard time I will agree. To picky. You can't look at the paint and determine if it would make you a good loader. Most loaders in that price range are going to need some reconditioning. Appearance wise anyways.


Furthermore are you looking for a snow loader or something you can use year round? There is a difference.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Weanis said:


> What loaders are you running in that price range? I can't seem to find anything decent around here for that price. Maybe I'm just being to picky?


Remember, you get what you pay for. Buy something like that for 20-30 uses per year, then let it sit, it's going to rot even faster.


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## Weanis (Feb 2, 2011)

I do find them for 25k or less but they seem so old and ancient but I don't know much about loaders to know if they are any good or not. Also I guess I am pretty picky, I had an old Michigan Cat 55a that I did a bunch of work to and installed a maradyne heater in, used it to mess around my yard and stack the snow banks at my auto mechanics/tire shop. I probably should of kept that but I wanted to get an articulating one. I'd like one to use to push snow occasionally but still be small enough to trailer around and tear up my yard with. The Deere 244 or 344 would be the ideal size I think. I sub for 2 different friends and use my plow truck for that. The loader would probably be just for personal use this winter and then the following years use it as my plow rig instead of plow truck or put my brother in it and sub him out with it.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Is a 5083 similar in size to this?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave said:


> Is a 5083 similar in size to this?


Yes, kind of. Almost. Maybe.

OK, not really.

But it is a tractor.


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