# Switching to blowing service



## PTSolutions

Note: Please don't comment or make suggestions if you have not read this original post. I will explain our situation and goal as best I can. Too many times people post something that wasn't asked for or the option was not even on the table to begin with.

Ok, well I have been researching this option for about 2 years now and would like to implement this in my area. I have read, searched and watched videos and ran some numbers to see if this service would be not only feasable but profitable as well. Looking at Neige, BlackIrish, Blowerman as examples I applied their business model to our operations and looked at the overlaps.

*Our current situation:*

-This year we are operating 4 of our own plow trucks, 1 sub and 1 ASV RC100 with 85"blower

-We service approximately 200 residential customers, about 75% of which are located within a 1.5mile radius of our base of operations. ~110 of those customers have a 10hr. service window. (senior citizen program, discounted rate and longer service window)

-We service a 62 unit HOA with driveways that avg. 1 car length by 2 car widths. This account will be done with the ASV with Blower and 1 of the trucks will do the roadway (6/10ths of a mile)

-We service 4 other commercial lots the largest of which is approx. 1 acre. 2 of those lots are done regularly, the other is a church and activity center that need to be done only for certain days, unless they get 3" or more.

-We strive for and achieve a 6hr route completion time (under normal circumstances)

*Opportunity for more clients:*

-there are approximately 1000-2000 senior citizens that participate in the program and about 6 contractors. We have taken over quite a few clients b/c of word of mouth. Oftentimes we have done a driveway twice during a heavier storm when the other contractors havent even gotten out once. During renewals in October we are often requested to take over service because we finish so much faster and do a more professional job than the other contractors. My plan is with a blower service I can take over the entire program through the inherent benefits, faster, no piles, cleaner edges etc...

-The neighboring city also offers a senior program but is done only by maintence workers, after the municipal route is completed. There was an article in the paper about how this program is costing them too much money, as it is free. They have been exploring the option of letting private contractors take this over and I want to meet with the council members and offer them a similar set up to what our city has set up. They currently service 850 clients, but with a more structured program with better service I estimate an additional 300 clients to sign on to this program.

*What I need help with:*

-Deciding which equipment best suits my needs

-The vast majority of our clients can be accessed via side roads that all connect with each other so there is minimal driving on main roads.

-Tractors with inversed pto driven blowers

-Toolcats with either pto or front mount hydraulic driven blowers

Toolcats:
59hp
18mph road speed
17gpm standard or 27.5gpm hi flow aux hydraulics
1500lb lift capacity FEL
25hp pto rating
1775lb lift capactiy 3pt
5500-6000lb op weight
used prices 4-600hrs: 27-35K

Tractors:
60-75hp class (kubota m6040 & m7040)
up to 25mph road speed?
11gpm, no hi flow
up to 4000lb lift capacity 3pt
used prices 100-600hrs: 20-32K

now, obviously the specs favor tractors for blower situations, but from those who have used toolcats, is there anything i missed? I mean, anything that would make me take a closer look at using them vs. blowers?

specifically BlackIrish, what do you like about your toolcats?

About 90% of these machines use will be residential driveways, but if we get more commercial accounts I may also utilize them there, but this isnt a deal breaker, if we get a large lot or lots, then that will dictate what equipment i need onsite.

I really wont have a need for either in the off-season since our uses mainly require mtl or other skid steer and excavators.

Sorry for such a long winded post, but i wanted to provide as much info as possible so that you guys may provide the most accurate points of view.


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## blowerman

As I'm pressed for time, the post today will be short. 
Glad to see some thinking outside the norm. While I do love the PXPL blower, the downside of this type of unit is the tractor. The New Holland Bi-directionals are good solid tractors, but they are not cheap, hard to find a fill in replacement unit during a snow, not many guys have a spare one sitting around, and expensive to maintain. Tires (radial non-directionals) are in the $1200+ range, (I replaced 2 this year) hydraulic fluid, oil and filter changes run over $1000 per year, and the loader while solid is not as beefy as a wheel loader. The blower on the other hand is unreal. Like you, I watched videos, googled, researched and in the end I had to buy the unit blindly as no one around seems to own them. 
As far as price, it was $18K with delivery, hoses & cutting edges. Does it live up to the reputation? Yep, and more. Sucks water off asphalt and then plows through 2 ft. of snow with ease. 

I do run skids and blowers with much love, I'll share more after the weekend. 

As far as inverted blowers, obviously Paul(neige) is the best one for this area. From everything I've read and watched, looks like one of the next big purchases for me next year. (other than dozers & trucks) I have a friend in Michigan that just added a tractor and inverted blower. (he's on here as Herm Witte) My understanding is that Paul gave him advice and help with blower selection (shoule brand) I can't wait to see how the blower is working out for Herm this year.

I forgot who posted it, but you know the line: "faster with a blower"! How true....


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## bike5200

I would go with tractors because I feel the service life will be longer and if taken care of will have a better trade in. Tractors are bigger and can be seen better. I think Neige got a severe winter kit for the cabs which keep all the glass clear. Back in, pull, blow and go seems to easy.


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## DaySpring Services

I also went the tractor route this year with much help from Neige. I will be using it for commercial lots which consist mainly of long drives. Next season I plan on going 100% residential. They both have their ups and downs, but I think I can make more money doing residential.I dont have to deal with salt which I hate. The amount of hp a tractor puts out at the pto will out work a skid/toolcat any day. I remember when I first looked into tractors I was shocked to find out a skidsteer is only putting out around 35hp to the blower. I am looking forward to see how the tractor works out!


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## BlackIrish

I think for what you're doing, resi's in the 'burbs with lots of space, tractor/inverted blower 
is the way to go.
My toolcats replaced skidsteers, they are used in downtown core where tractors and p/u's would not fit, higher road speed compared to a 2 spd skiddy was very important for me.


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## leon

*snow blower etc.*

Even investing in a used large high power row crop hydrostatic drive tractor will allow you to use the PXPL model easily as you will have plenty of rear glass and mirrors and a flat operators station.

Using a wired Cab Cam system with several cameras will aid in the backing issue with some practice and the unit has a measurement grid for distance which can be programed in the screen view.

Some row crop tractors have seating the swivels to allow easier operation as well.

Regarding the above it is entirely possible to mount a PXPL on the front of a high horse power row crop tractor using a front mount kit P.T.O., for a 3 point hitch system which takes power from the engines flywheel delivered through a reverse gear box.

There are number of front hitch builders that do this for many tractors here in the United States and several in Canada.

Adding the Cab Cam for the front mount is a win win as you have room to mount a wireless camera on the corners of the blower frame and one on the front of the tractor hood if desired to aid in attaching the blower and parking without the blower.

Lighting is key as you will want to keep the lights on while working to be sure of your actual location and to keep track of the blowers corners of the PXPL or other blower as well as adding bicycle flags to the ones already on the PXPL foir example.

There is a member of plowsite that farms on Prince Edward Island and uses a rear mounted Pronovost snow blower to remove snow from residences there and the tractor he uses is a very tall John Deere Row Crop Tractor to do it every year backing in and blowing the snow out of the driveways.


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## WIPensFan

ProTouch, IMO for what it's worth, you are only seeing $$$. This venture you are wanting to undertake is very risky. I'm not saying your vision won't work, but keep in mind it might not. Things on the internet are not always as they seem.

*"Looking at Neige, BlackIrish, Blowerman as examples I applied their business model to our operations and looked at the overlaps." *I find this impossible for you to have done accurately. There is no way for you to have looked at their business models without seeing into their costs, expenses, marketing, payroll records, insurance, snowfall averages for there areas over 10-15 years compared to your area...etc. Just some of the things I could think of quickly, I'm sure I left out a lot. One more thought is , if you can get these customers, so could someone else doing things the same way as you but charging less in 2 years. Then what? You lower your price to keep the work, and then all the problems that go along with that.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, and giving you something to think about( you're probably calling me names right now). I hope you prove me wrong and in 5 years you're on here talking about how your operation trippled in size and WIPensFan is a dumb a$$ for not believing in you!


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## EdNewman

I love it, someone thinking outside of the box. What you really need is a uni-mog with a blower or something similiar. It would get you 30+ mph road speed with an 8' blower path. Might be able to find something used or one of the other similiar machines used at airports and out west. Guess my question would be how to handle the walks and porches plus de-icing. Those would be critical items for seniors.


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## RAZOR

WIPensFan;1127665 said:


> ProTouch, IMO for what it's worth, you are only seeing $$$. This venture you are wanting to undertake is very risky. I'm not saying your vision won't work, but keep in mind it might not. Things on the internet are not always as they seem.
> 
> *"Looking at Neige, BlackIrish, Blowerman as examples I applied their business model to our operations and looked at the overlaps." *I find this impossible for you to have done accurately. There is no way for you to have looked at their business models without seeing into their costs, expenses, marketing, payroll records, insurance, snowfall averages for there areas over 10-15 years compared to your area...etc. Just some of the things I could think of quickly, I'm sure I left out a lot. One more thought is , if you can get these customers, so could someone else doing things the same way as you but charging less in 2 years. Then what? You lower your price to keep the work, and then all the problems that go along with that.
> 
> I'm playing devil's advocate here, and giving you something to think about( you're probably calling me names right now). I hope you prove me wrong and in 5 years you're on here talking about how your operation trippled in size and WIPensFan is a dumb a$$ for not believing in you!


I agree with WIPensFan to a degree. People see video of a tractor/blower in action and think it is some kind of miracle machine. In Montreal, Ottawa and my area they work great. I was thinking about my old route in Toronto and was better off with a plow truck. For a tractor/blower to be worthwhile you have to have get a large amount of snowfall (preferably dry snow) . There has to be a limited places to put the snow and route must be tight. IMO if your area does not have all of these a tractor/blower is not a wise choice. They are calling for 6-9 inches of snow over the next 24 hours here and my guess it will be wet snow, I'm not looking forward to trying to unclog the chute on my blower after every 2nd driveway that I clear but this is what happens to blowers when the snow is wet. The tractor/blower system is good but not perfect in all cases.


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## BlackIrish

There are pros and cons to everything.
It's easier to stay within the norm.
Years ago I had hundreds of resi's in my snowplowing footprint.
I laughed at how slow tractor blowers seemed to be, sure enough year after year I lost my resi's
to the tractor blower guys. 
During a near record accumulation year I was using backhoes and a payloader to push back the piles on lawns to make room for more snow, tractor blower guys would just blow vast amounts of snow onto the lawns with little effort.
Up here tractors have become the norm, those that were smart enough to get on the bandwagon years ago have built large resi operations. Literally thousands of resi's per company. I'm playing catch up.
First year using tractors I tripled in size.
Route density is key.
JMO


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## MDSP

I got out of the residental maket with trucks. However after seeing the good luck of others with blowers I'm thinking I might be missing something big. Might be time to jump on the bandwagon. 

It's nice to see the industry moving in a new direction thinking outside of the box!! I jumped on the Ebling 16' band wagon last year and bought 8 blades, 2 of them on 100+hp tractors. 

It's scary being one of the first to try anything new, however the payoff might just be worth it. There are leaders and followers. Leaders often fall before they rise. But they always get back up and try again. Good luck with what ever your new venture may bring you. Don't ever let anyone slow you down!


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## PTSolutions

> ProTouch, IMO for what it's worth, you are only seeing $$$. This venture you are wanting to undertake is very risky. I'm not saying your vision won't work, but keep in mind it might not. Things on the internet are not always as they seem.
> 
> "Looking at Neige, BlackIrish, Blowerman as examples I applied their business model to our operations and looked at the overlaps." I find this impossible for you to have done accurately. There is no way for you to have looked at their business models without seeing into their costs, expenses, marketing, payroll records, insurance, snowfall averages for there areas over 10-15 years compared to your area...etc. Just some of the things I could think of quickly, I'm sure I left out a lot. One more thought is , if you can get these customers, so could someone else doing things the same way as you but charging less in 2 years. Then what? You lower your price to keep the work, and then all the problems that go along with that.
> 
> I'm playing devil's advocate here, and giving you something to think about( you're probably calling me names right now). I hope you prove me wrong and in 5 years you're on here talking about how your operation trippled in size and WIPensFan is a dumb a$$ for not believing in you!


WiP - you are totally correct in pointing out the downfalls of this venture. "People buy emotionally and defend rationally" Many of your post seem "negative" upon first glance but really contain valuable information and I appreciate it. I have been running cost figures (i specialized in cost accounting) based upon my business figures with scenarios that i have seen and read from Neige, BlackIrish etc... I didnt mean that I used specific figures from their business model. I used them as a template for how to operate (physical operatons not financial) and applied it to our routes, costs, etc...

Being first to market is a key and 90% of our work is gained b/c we do a better job than the other contractors around here. There isnt a large, experienced company going after residentials here, they all do commercial. residential contractors are small 1 or 2 truck operations and I feel that if we get into this market now, we gain the upper hand.



> I love it, someone thinking outside of the box. What you really need is a uni-mog with a blower or something similiar. It would get you 30+ mph road speed with an 8' blower path. Might be able to find something used or one of the other similiar machines used at airports and out west. Guess my question would be how to handle the walks and porches plus de-icing. Those would be critical items for seniors.


we are rarely asked to do any walkway shoveling, those that do get charged an additional fee and we just use the shovel or a single stage if need be. and none of the drives are ever salted, not sure if anyone does around here.



> I agree with WIPensFan to a degree. People see video of a tractor/blower in action and think it is some kind of miracle machine. In Montreal, Ottawa and my area they work great. I was thinking about my old route in Toronto and was better off with a plow truck. For a tractor/blower to be worthwhile you have to have get a large amount of snowfall (preferably dry snow) . There has to be a limited places to put the snow and route must be tight. IMO if your area does not have all of these a tractor/blower is not a wise choice. They are calling for 6-9 inches of snow over the next 24 hours here and my guess it will be wet snow, I'm not looking forward to trying to unclog the chute on my blower after every 2nd driveway that I clear but this is what happens to blowers when the snow is wet. The tractor/blower system is good but not perfect in all cases.


last season we had our entire yearly snowfall in Jan & Feb with more than half of the total coming in Feb. halfway through Jan the piles were starting to get too big and we got calls to come and knock them back b/c of restricing view of the road. our usual snowfall is 2-4 inches but we had a surprising number of large accumulation stores where we finished the route and started right back over. these scenarios i feel will be key points for the blower service. My concern is as you pointed out, how well does the blower work in the 2" accum?


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## leon

*snow etc.*

Any snowblower will work fine for a 2 inch accumulation as long as you
do not move to fast and start hopping with it.

The nice thing about the PXPL and the inverted is the Tivar Blade
which aids in cleaning.

The PXPL can be used while driving forward with the scraper blade down
as the blower will remove the snow as it accumulates in the housing as it is
captured by the cross auger while it is rotating.

Personally if it was me I would ask to have the spiked solid auger option installed on the PXPL to capture the snow with no spill over and in the process you will have a metered delivery for snow and avoid flooding and spilling snow out as the solid auger will convey it to the impeller at a better rate than with an open auger which tends to throw it outward when dealing with deep snows and it wil throw the ribbons volume of snow further rather than having surges of snow blown out at times as the chute becomes too flooded due to the open auger.

Having the metered volume of snow being wet or powder entering the impeller housing ensures the snow volume is the same every time and the impeller can throw it much further as it is a metered amount of snow no matter the condition of it.


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## WIPensFan

ProTouch, now that my skeptisicm has been addressed :salute:, let's talk about the fun stuff! If it was me laying out my money on this equipment, I would go for the tractor blower combo. The main reason is like Neige always says, They don't care how much snow there is. Route times would stay pretty consistent no matter the accumulation. Obviously they would also be more heavy duty than the Toolcat. Maybe you could try one of both and see which one works out better in your area. Maybe I should ask first, how many pieces of equipment will you need to start with?


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## PTSolutions

WiP- I went to a local bobcat dealer to try out the toolcat and while they are nice and would have their use for snow, i dont believe the blowers would be their strong suit. They have nice turning radius and good visibility but with only 25pto hp and 27gpm, like you said, they wouldnt be as consistent time wise with different accumulations.

With my current client base I would pick up 1 tractor and try it out that way, if my meeting with the other city's council members goes well and they decide to award me the contract, thats 850 drives with a 10hr service window, so what, maybe 2-3 more tractors just for that?

here are some great deals on m7040's ive found:

29,900 with 150hrs









28,900 with 480hrs









and they have a few more around 35K with 100-300hrs


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## WIPensFan

Those are good looking tractors IMO. Problem is, I know zip about tractors . I would think if you get the 850 drives 4 tractors would be more than enough. Having more than enough would be important because if and when something breaks, you could cover other routes within the time frame. Doing a great job the first year should be your goal, so no doubt creeps into peoples minds as to wether this is a good service. Seniors are hard to please no matter what you do and word amongst them spreads like wildfire.

One other base I think you should cover is setting up a deal with someone who can fix whatever type of equipment you go with right away. That would mean parts are readily available. Also stick with the same equipment, setup the same way. That way, when problems develope, you will have seen it before and know exactly what needs to be done.

Do you think you can find reliable operators, and how much $$$ will you pay them.


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## Neige

BlackIrish;1127985 said:


> There are pros and cons to everything.
> It's easier to stay within the norm.
> Years ago I had hundreds of resi's in my snowplowing footprint.
> I laughed at how slow tractor blowers seemed to be, sure enough year after year I lost my resi's
> to the tractor blower guys.
> During a near record accumulation year I was using backhoes and a payloader to push back the piles on lawns to make room for more snow, tractor blower guys would just blow vast amounts of snow onto the lawns with little effort.
> Up here tractors have become the norm, those that were smart enough to get on the bandwagon years ago have built large resi operations. Literally thousands of resi's per company. I'm playing catch up.
> First year using tractors I tripled in size.
> Route density is key.
> JMO


Great post Black



ProTouchGrounds;1129593 said:


> WiP- I went to a local bobcat dealer to try out the toolcat and while they are nice and would have their use for snow, i dont believe the blowers would be their strong suit. They have nice turning radius and good visibility but with only 25pto hp and 27gpm, like you said, they wouldnt be as consistent time wise with different accumulations.
> 
> With my current client base I would pick up 1 tractor and try it out that way, if my meeting with the other city's council members goes well and they decide to award me the contract, thats 850 drives with a 10hr service window, so what, maybe 2-3 more tractors just for that?
> 
> here are some great deals on m7040's ive found:
> 
> 29,900 with 150hrs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 28,900 with 480hrs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and they have a few more around 35K with 100-300hrs


Those are some smoking good deals, but keep in mind that would be the very minimum size tractor you should be getting. I would suggest checking out these sizes also.
Kubota M9540, M95X, and the M100X, yes they will be more expensive but you will never lack power. You can get the job done with the Kubota M7040, I think the PTO hp is around 65. Lastly Kubota s road speed is 20mph. You may want to look into New Holland and John Deere, both have higher road speed options of around 26 mph. Dont get me wrong I love my Kubotas. The price has always been the best, and maintenance costs were always very low. Road speed is not a factor in my service area. 
I applaud your thinking, you have seen a niche market and are working hard to get it. Remember if you do get those 800 drives, you will pick up other clients on these routes. 
Good luck


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## DaySpring Services

I was able to use the new Kubota this weekend. We go about 4-6" of Heavy, wet lake effect snow. I was more than impressed with the performance of the machine. It never bogged or clogged and threw snow 40 feet easily. I'm very happy with those results under such heavy snow conditions.


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## Neige

WIPensFan;1129650 said:


> Those are good looking tractors IMO. Problem is, I know zip about tractors . I would think if you get the 850 drives 4 tractors would be more than enough. Having more than enough would be important because if and when something breaks, you could cover other routes within the time frame. Doing a great job the first year should be your goal, so no doubt creeps into peoples minds as to wether this is a good service. Seniors are hard to please no matter what you do and word amongst them spreads like wildfire.
> 
> One other base I think you should cover is setting up a deal with someone who can fix whatever type of equipment you go with right away. That would mean parts are readily available. Also stick with the same equipment, setup the same way. That way, when problems develope, you will have seen it before and know exactly what needs to be done.
> 
> Do you think you can find reliable operators, and how much $$$ will you pay them.


Great advice Wipen



DaySpring Services;1129751 said:


> I was able to use the new Kubota this weekend. We go about 4-6" of Heavy, wet lake effect snow. I was more than impressed with the performance of the machine. It never bogged or clogged and threw snow 40 feet easily. I'm very happy with those results under such heavy snow conditions.


Glad to hear it worked out so well. That heavy stuff usually takes some time to get used to. Sounds like you are well on your way.


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## cretebaby

leon;1126890 said:


> large high power row crop hydrostatic drive tractor


Is there such a thing?


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## leon

*salt etc.*



cretebaby;1130889 said:


> Is there such a thing?


My goodness yes,

There are hundreds of them on the market for resale

after trades or sold at auction every week.

If you have to to search municipal auctions the tractors with

boom mowers are very high horsepower units and are typically

7 to ten years old as the municipal accounting standards only allow

the units age to be considered for sale at auction to recoup some of the

units value for the municipality involved.

The late model graders being purchased now are really going to be fought over

at auction within 7 to 10 years as they are something that will have tremendous

value for the buyer.


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## cretebaby

leon;1130960 said:


> My goodness yes,
> 
> There are hundreds of them on the market for resale
> 
> after trades or sold at auction every week.
> 
> If you have to to search municipal auctions the tractors with
> 
> boom mowers are very high horsepower units and are typically
> 
> 7 to ten years old as the municipal accounting standards only allow
> 
> the units age to be considered for sale at auction to recoup some of the
> 
> units value for the municipality involved.
> 
> The late model graders being purchased now are really going to be fought over
> 
> at auction within 7 to 10 years as they are something that will have tremendous
> 
> value for the buyer.


Would you be so kind as to post a link to one? You seem to be familiar with where to find them.


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## leon

*tractor etc.*

Please find below a few active auction sites.

www.agweekly.com - The premier regional biweekly news paper for the northwest United States.

www.Ironplanet.com

www.tractorhouse.com

www.farmauctionguide.com

www.usfarmauctions.com

www.onlinefarmauctions.com

www.greentractor-auctions.com

www.municibid.com


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## jvm81

great list of auction info!


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## cretebaby

leon;1131011 said:


> Please find below a few active auction sites.


Thanks. 

I was hoping you would have a link to a hydro ag tractor.


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## newhere

any one want to disclose what they paid for a P-860 Pronovost inverted blower ? or any other inverted blower for that matter? 

i was quoted around 9k but have search on the web and seen prices in the mid 5's.......

any one have a real world answer?


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## goel

The last salter I purchase was from a guy that had done exactly what you are talking about. We talked, and I had a quick tour of his equipment while I was there. 

If I remember correctly, he had app 850 res driveways, and used 4 machines. 3 New holland tractors - 2 with forward facing blowers on the 3ph, 1 with a front forward blower - to which he had custom added a hydraulic back drag arm/plow and a back up machine of a zoom boom (did not see the blower on this one)

It was his niche - all the driveways were basically on attached streets (lots of condo style little 1 pass driveways)


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## blowerman

newhere;1131376 said:


> any one want to disclose what they paid for a P-860 Pronovost inverted blower ? or any other inverted blower for that matter?
> 
> i was quoted around 9k but have search on the web and seen prices in the mid 5's.......
> 
> any one have a real world answer?


Your $9K is in the ball park. They are not cheap blowers. Keep looking and you might find a decent used one, just make sure it's not all bent & worn out. 
Where have you found new inverted Pronovost blowers in the $5K range?


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## blowerman

cretebaby;1131348 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I was hoping you would have a link to a hydro ag tractor.


I hear what you are saying, Cre.... I'm at a loss for what good old Leon is trying to describe.


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## newhere

just old post on some tractor by net site i was reading.

i may end up going with a Erskine/quick attach for a few reasons anyways.


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## Neige

newhere;1131376 said:


> any one want to disclose what they paid for a P-860 Pronovost inverted blower ? or any other inverted blower for that matter?
> 
> i was quoted around 9k but have search on the web and seen prices in the mid 5's.......
> 
> any one have a real world answer?


I would love to see a price of mid 5 grand. 9k is the going rate, there are some around 6.8, but you get what you pay for.


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## blowerman

newhere;1131394 said:


> just old post on some tractor by net site i was reading.
> 
> i may end up going with a Erskine/quick attach for a few reasons anyways.


Not that I'm saying don't buy a Erskine, as I use one on a skidloader, but you do get what you pay for. Seach and you'll find the post on an Erskine inverted blower. Bending, welds, premature rusting to name a few problems.

What are your reasons?


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## OrganicsL&L

Guys,

Great thread! I am working on this business model for the '11/'12 season. One issue I have is that the driveways in my area average 3-5K sq. ft. Our snows can be as little as 2" or up to 20". They range from nice and fluffy to wet and heavy.

How do the tractors and inverted blowers handle all of this? What I really need to know is time. I envision driving in, along say the left edge, following to the garage and across(minimum 2 car usually 3) with a quick back up to clean the corners. Then back out up the middle and back in along the other side and a final clean up on the way back out. I calculate 3-5 minutes to get each drive done. Now that won't allow for the volume that others can pull on the smaller drives, so I am hoping to get close to 100 drives done per storm.

Please let us know how things are going for you this season and any advice/pointers you may have as I put this plan together.

Thanks in advance, this is a great community!

One last question....another service that I will be able to sell to people that have guys that plow is cleaning up and widening the driveways if we have a large storm. How do the inverted blowers work on this....I mean if I have piles of snow to clear, how do you do that?


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## zabMasonry

Howbout using a Holder type unit










http://www.holder.on.ca/inst_tractor_c992.html

More then enough HP, way more manuverable, way more visibility. Probably just as expensive as a full size tractor.


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## OrganicsL&L

I've thought about those and the Trackless, but I wouldn't have any other use for them during the other months. At least with the tractor I could use the loader for compost etc.

Plus, I think they are almost double the price of a tractor.


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## thatlittleguy?

the holder tractor looks pretty slick, but with a 44 inch blower it doesn't seem like it would be too speedy


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## zabMasonry

BTW the US manufacture of this type of unit is MT Trackless, also has a 115 HP cummins in it

http://www.tracklessvehicles.com/

I had no idea on the price. I think however, that they would likely out produce a tractor of similar HP based on their maneuverability, additionally they would be much lower liability because they are so much smaller. I would also guess that they can be outfitted with mowers that could be used for larger plots in the summer.


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## zabMasonry

thatlittleguy?;1205683 said:


> the holder tractor looks pretty slick, but with a 44 inch blower it doesn't seem like it would be too speedy


they have plenty of HP to drive a larger blower, they also have a pretty standard 3PT on the front that would provide plenty of flexibilty


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## OrganicsL&L

I have been looking hard at these and the toolcats. It seems that the tractors with the inverted blowers are extremely fast....based on the vids posted by Neige. I love the idea of a toolcat, but I don't think it would be quick enough to warrant the price. The upside is the amount of work it could do in the spring/summer/fall.

The Trackless will definitely do the driveways faster that a TC, probably comparable to a tractor, so then if I look at where else I can use the machine, the trackless is the least versatile of the 3.

That is why I am leaning towards a tractor with the inverted blower, should be as quick as the trackless, but will make me money during the rest of the year too.

For me I don't have to have this figured out until the end of the summer, when I start marketing hard for this service, so I may have to put in a call to some people on here that can help me out.


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## Neige

OrganicsL&L;1202677 said:


> Guys,
> 
> Great thread! I am working on this business model for the '11/'12 season. One issue I have is that the driveways in my area average 3-5K sq. ft. Our snows can be as little as 2" or up to 20". They range from nice and fluffy to wet and heavy.
> 
> Usually we will not wait for 20 inches to be down, but if there is the inverted can handle it.
> 
> How do the tractors and inverted blowers handle all of this? What I really need to know is time. I envision driving in, along say the left edge, following to the garage and across(minimum 2 car usually 3) with a quick back up to clean the corners. Then back out up the middle and back in along the other side and a final clean up on the way back out. I calculate 3-5 minutes to get each drive done. Now that won't allow for the volume that others can pull on the smaller drives, so I am hoping to get close to 100 drives done per storm.
> 
> Please let us know how things are going for you this season and any advice/pointers you may have as I put this plan together.
> 
> Thanks in advance, this is a great community!
> 
> One last question....another service that I will be able to sell to people that have guys that plow is cleaning up and widening the driveways if we have a large storm. How do the inverted blowers work on this....I mean if I have piles of snow to clear, how do you do that?


An inverted blower is pretty useless for blowing back banks, especially if they have been sitting there for awhile and have hardened.



zabMasonry;1205687 said:


> BTW the US manufacture of this type of unit is MT Trackless, also has a 115 HP cummins in it
> 
> http://www.tracklessvehicles.com/
> 
> I had no idea on the price. I think however, that they would likely out produce a tractor of similar HP based on their maneuverability, additionally they would be much lower liability because they are so much smaller. I would also guess that they can be outfitted with mowers that could be used for larger plots in the summer.


The price is really high, and you are comparing a 48 inch blower to a 92 inch blower, how could that out produce a tractor?



OrganicsL&L;1205913 said:


> I have been looking hard at these and the toolcats. It seems that the tractors with the inverted blowers are extremely fast....based on the vids posted by Neige. I love the idea of a toolcat, but I don't think it would be quick enough to warrant the price. The upside is the amount of work it could do in the spring/summer/fall.
> 
> The Trackless will definitely do the driveways faster that a TC, probably comparable to a tractor, so then if I look at where else I can use the machine, the trackless is the least versatile of the 3.
> 
> That is why I am leaning towards a tractor with the inverted blower, should be as quick as the trackless, but will make me money during the rest of the year too.
> 
> For me I don't have to have this figured out until the end of the summer, when I start marketing hard for this service, so I may have to put in a call to some people on here that can help me out.


I like what you are doing, keep asking the questions and continue comparing the options.


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## OrganicsL&L

Neige;1206233 said:


> An inverted blower is pretty useless for blowing back banks, especially if they have been sitting there for awhile and have hardened.
> 
> The price is really high, and you are comparing a 48 inch blower to a 92 inch blower, how could that out produce a tractor?
> 
> I like what you are doing, keep asking the questions and continue comparing the options.


Thanks Neige! There is a 72" snowblower available for the trackless, but like you said the price is very prohibitive.

The one hangup I have with the tractor for my area is that the driveways are all pretty long, and the garages are usually side facing, so backing in and then blowing like you do would be a lot of wasted movement. Having not used a tractor of that size before, how manuverable are they(Turning radius)? The other thing that I see as an issue is that we get a lot of storms that last all day, so with a route like yours, to have a 2" trigger, and then blow through in 4 hours, we could have 8" on the first set of drives we did by the end of that 4 hours. How do you manage a storm like that? We get about 70" of snow here, but we could end up with 3 18" storms and then a bunch of smaller 2-3" dustings. The light ones are easy, but with those large storms, we could be out for 20 hours if we went right with the storm.

Thanks again, you have already cleared up a lot of my questions just with your previous posts!


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## mnlefty

I have a question for Neige or anyone else using an inverted blower... pretty specific question too.

I've attached a picture of a few driveways that I'm currently doing with a blower mounted on a toolcat. It has certainly served it's purpose this season, but I'm considering the tractor/inverted blower as I plan to expand quite a bit next season. For about 80-90% of my drives I know almost exactly the way I would go with an inverted blower as far as passes, snow placement etc.. but I do have about 10-15% of my drives that I'm just not sure how to do it. See the attached picture.

Yellow dots are 3 that I am currently doing. For various reasons all of the side driveways/garages are best pushed beyond the garage towards the backyard. The one far left has a jerk neighbor to the left, the middle has low trees and close neighbors, the right one has close neighbors. Because of the circles in front there's not a lot of space to put the snow from the garage areas if I would have to pull it out with an inverted blower. We have already topped our seasonal average for the year and in an area like this with big drives and small yards the snow is deep. I need to be able to utilize that backyard area like I currently do with the toolcat blower, but I don't see how to accomplish with an inverted?

For the other 85% of my drives the inverted will be faster and cleaner, but there's a segment like this that I just can't figure out how. I don't want a separate route with a toolcat. These drives would be perfect for the pxpl, but I don't want to drop that kind of coin either.

How would you inverted users do these drives?


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## OrganicsL&L

Hey MNlefty, I have a lot of drives at that size and scope in my target market, how many can you manage with the TC? Here, blowing them, they would be in the $80 range, and my questions are the same, how do you direct the snow with the inverted?

Let me know about the TC as that is one of my considerations....probably #2 on my list after the tractor and before the trackless....mainly due to price and versatility.


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## mnlefty

I do 30 right now... the ones in the picture are probably 3 of the biggest 6 or so. I do a handful similar to the ones on the street at the bottom of the picture. My route is a bit more stretched out though. I haven't clocked it with a vehicle, but I would estimate it's 15 miles at least start to finish in a big loop. My route is pockets... do 5 close to each other then a 5-10 minute run to the next 3. If I could group them tighter I would estimate 60+ could be handled easily in the same time frame I do now.

I'm waiting for another decent snowfall to judge where I'm really at time-wise. The first snowfalls when I was still getting used to the machine and we were getting 6 inches I was on about 8 hrs start to finish. The last 4 times out have been 2" or less and I'm still finding ways to get through a bit quicker... last time out was barely 4 hours. I'm interested to see a heavy snow again to gauge how much of the time savings is light snow and how much is me getting better. 

With my estimated drive distance/time that puts almost a full hour of straight drive time into that 4 hour run, so trust everyone who says route density is key. I tip-toed into this slowly this year, 28 of 30 are lawn customers of mine. Next year with a bit of marketing and a bit more "selling" I think 60-100 is easily attainable, if not more. Customers have been very happy with our work... some of the neighbors with similar circle drives have snow spilling 18-24" inside the markers on both sides, driveways are shrinking, ours are still full width. Neighbors have mountains of snow everywhere, we don't.

Overall the toolcat has been great... only concerns would be

- Speed when blowing deep snow... like I said, I need another bigger event to gauge how much I need to slow down, vs. how much I've improved technique.

- A little quicker road speed would be nice. I spend a bit too much time on long runs between neighborhoods. This of course can be defeated by better route density as well and that is the goal.

Beyond that the machine can handle anything I've attempted. After an 18" storm I subbed for a friend blowing boulevard sidewalks on commercial properties. No lines to follow and 18+" of 3 day old compacted street plow wash and I was able to carve through it... slowly, but I managed.


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## thatlittleguy?

what about running a blower on a smaller bi-di like the antonio carraro? With 90hp running a pxpl, it seems like you'd be able to drive in blowing, turn around in the circle (still blowing) and drive out. I'm weighing options for next season as well and curious to see if anyone has any experience with those tractors.


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## OrganicsL&L

What blower are you using, and what do you think you average per hour(if you don't mind!)

I know that density is the biggest key to making this work....lawn routes too. My run is 7 miles from my shop....however it is probably more like 3 from where we would actually start, so not too long. My goal is 100 drives, but I'm not sure about the toolcat and how quick per driveway it would be. On paper I've calculated about 5 hours of blowing time based on the square footage of the driveways, but, that doesn't include travel which would probably be another 2....so 7 hrs to get through 100. Much quicker than a plow, but that is only on paper!

Thanks for the feedback!

Let us know how it works in a larger storm....we got 16" last week, 6 over the weekend, and now another 6-10" today, so we do get some good storms.


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## mnlefty

OrganicsL&L;1206339 said:


> What blower are you using, and what do you think you average per hour(if you don't mind!)


I'm running a Bobcat SB200, 72", standard flow. I would say with my mix of driveways 10/hr is a pretty safe estimate. When I'm on some of the smaller ones I can be in and out easily within 2 minutes... on some of the bigger ones as pictured 5-8 minutes per is a pretty decent guess. My route services 5 "neighborhoods" anywhere from 5-20 minute drive between, and a few pockets within neighborhoods that are an additional 3-8 minutes between pockets.

I believe that if I could get enough work to put 2 machines out and split up the neighborhoods that each could handle roughly 60... Within a couple years if I could put 1 machine in each neighborhood I think 80-100 depending on the neighborhood is doable.

Early December we had an all day event that dropped around 18". It was only the 2nd time out with the blower, so my technique was still rough/slow. I ran through 2x with the storm, about 6-8" each and those were 7-8 hour runs. I know I can shave some of that time now, just because I've improved, but I know at that volume of snow it will be slower than the 4 hrs I've been at with the light stuff lately. How much slower is the question.

I also replaced the stock steel wear edge with a UHMW poly edge. I left it about an inch longer than the steel, and I can actually back-drag some with this edge. I made it myself from a remnant stock piece (1" x 6") from a local plastics supplier for less than $100.


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## mnlefty

thatlittleguy?;1206332 said:


> what about running a blower on a smaller bi-di like the antonio carraro? With 90hp running a pxpl, it seems like you'd be able to drive in blowing, turn around in the circle (still blowing) and drive out. I'm weighing options for next season as well and curious to see if anyone has any experience with those tractors.


I spent some time web-surfing the other night looking at the carraro tractors. I like the power they have in a small frame. I actually am considering looking into one of the bi-directionals, but possibly with just a standard pto blower so the unit would actually be much like the toolcat, only a bigger beefier version with a bigger stronger blower. I just don't know that the extra $6-10 grand for the pxpl can be justified. I've got things to where I don't leave much behind now with the blower I use, and we do shovel walks/steps of most of our properties so it takes maybe an extra 2 minutes tops for my guys to buzz across the garages. If I set up an edge similar to what I've done with my blower now, I can actually just lift the blower and backdrag some of the worst piles that get left behind, albeit not as clean or efficient as the pxpl doing what it was designed to do.

The pxpl is kind of my dream machine, but I just don't know if I can swallow the price tag, when other options are _almost_ as good.


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## IMAGE

I was qouted just under $10 for a SHoule including shipping to Fargo


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## PTSolutions

i have been looking at tractors and went to a new holland/kioti dealer.

they seem to have excellent luck with the kioti tractors. they have been around for at least 40yrs now and alot of the options on other makes like kubota and new holland are standard on the dk90. a brand new dk90 (90hp) is about 44K with a 3 yr full warranty and an additional 2 year powertrain warranty. thats not bad.

that shoule price isnt too bad considering i paid about 6500 for my 85" hi flow erskine unit (front mount skid steer)


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## Schuley

Has anyone else looked into the blower from Anderson? Its a 2-directional blower. Neige posted a video n the picture thread..... Hey Neige...Have you had a chance to try it yet?

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=108399&highlight=anderson+blower


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## Neige

mnlefty;1206288 said:


> I have a question for Neige or anyone else using an inverted blower... pretty specific question too.
> 
> I've attached a picture of a few driveways that I'm currently doing with a blower mounted on a toolcat. It has certainly served it's purpose this season, but I'm considering the tractor/inverted blower as I plan to expand quite a bit next season. For about 80-90% of my drives I know almost exactly the way I would go with an inverted blower as far as passes, snow placement etc.. but I do have about 10-15% of my drives that I'm just not sure how to do it. See the attached picture.
> 
> Yellow dots are 3 that I am currently doing. For various reasons all of the side driveways/garages are best pushed beyond the garage towards the backyard. The one far left has a jerk neighbor to the left, the middle has low trees and close neighbors, the right one has close neighbors. Because of the circles in front there's not a lot of space to put the snow from the garage areas if I would have to pull it out with an inverted blower. We have already topped our seasonal average for the year and in an area like this with big drives and small yards the snow is deep. I need to be able to utilize that backyard area like I currently do with the toolcat blower, but I don't see how to accomplish with an inverted?
> 
> For the other 85% of my drives the inverted will be faster and cleaner, but there's a segment like this that I just can't figure out how. I don't want a separate route with a toolcat. These drives would be perfect for the pxpl, but I don't want to drop that kind of coin either.
> 
> How would you inverted users do these drives?


Wow those are some serious drives, great neighborhood to service them all. It does not look like many people there would do their own drives.
#1 is your most difficult drive, we service one very similar to that. You would pull the the snow towards the front and then turn on your blower. You still have some place to blow the snow to the left, and the further you go into the season your client may lose a couple of feet on the left side of his drive. Those spruce trees in the front a Major PITA, no place to put snow there. So I would enter from the left, and once in front of the house turn off the blower and pull the snow till I have cleared the house and the restart the blower.
Sometimes as you get more clients, you may want to choose not to take some on, as they are just not worth the trouble.
#2 is only easier because in the front there are no evergreen trees in your way. This one you really have no space to blow the snow left. I would enter the drive on the left driving forward, once I get beside the house turn off the blower and pull forward, start turning left near the end and turn on the blower, blowing the snow into the back yard. The rest of the drive I see no issues.
#3 We service a few of these and they are pretty straight forward, again you have no evergreen trees to contend with. (You can never blow snow into an evergreen tree, you will cause damage) Just pull and blow, you really only need 5 feet of property to blow on. We average 80 inches a year and get several 12 inch storms also.
Now some of these drives are pushing the limit, and you need to come up with some creative ways to clear them with an inverted blower. But definitely it can be done, but will be more time consuming. A PXPL would definitely solve these problems, it may cost 8 grand more but you will save time with those types of drives.


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## MogMan

Neige;1207508 said:


> you really only need 5 feet of property to blow on. .


Exactly !

I got a couple identical lot containing 18 parking spots each and with that inverted blower I stack-up the whole snow of those surfaces on an area of 8 feet by 4. The rotating chute alongs you to stack-it with "precision". The blower packs it up pretty hard too.

Inverted blower is awesome. Couldn't have fulfilled my contracts without it. well worth the 9K$


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## blowerman

This is an excellent and informative thread for driveway snow removal... Glad everyone is adding some great suggestions and ideas. 
My personal experience using skid loaders with snowblowers is they work extremely fast until heavy wet snow builds up beyond the 6" amounts or the city wings a 2' plus wind row in front of the driveways.
At that point my times start to drop off real fast. This was part of my reason for the pxpl. I know some guys debate the expense, but when snow removal is your business and you have enough driveways, it's time to explore more efficient ways to clear the snow.
I'm glad you guys posted the driveway pic and Paul described how to clear them, as odd angles have been one of my biggest questions about how to use a inverted blower. I'm thinking a inverted is in the works for next year. Now I'm going to have to start a thread about which is the best tractor for this application and which inverted blower to buy.


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## mnlefty

Neige;1207508 said:


> (You can never blow snow into an evergreen tree, you will cause damage)


Are you talking physical damage by the force of the snow impacting the tree, the weight of the snow on the branches, or just the volume of snow acting to smother/freeze out the tree?

Going back to my picture, the 1st one on the left, the two trees on the inside of the circle, along with the one between circle and left drive have a good 4-5' of streetwash blasted on them already.


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## Neige

mnlefty;1209343 said:


> Are you talking physical damage by the force of the snow impacting the tree, the weight of the snow on the branches, or just the volume of snow acting to smother/freeze out the tree?
> 
> Going back to my picture, the 1st one on the left, the two trees on the inside of the circle, along with the one between circle and left drive have a good 4-5' of streetwash blasted on them already.


Mostly the force of the snow and the weight. I dont know if they salt your streets, but if they do then the streetwash will burn the lower branches. I only mention it because those are mature looking trees, and would cost a fortune to replace. Usually our clients will install snow fencing around the bottom halve.


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## MogMan

blowerman;1209289 said:


> . I'm thinking a inverted is in the works for next year. Now I'm going to have to start a thread about which is the best tractor for this application and which inverted blower to buy.


I personally would go for a New-Holland T6070. The cab is just awesome. The ergonomics are perfect. I am loking to get one for next season. I'll switch my P920IV from the Unimog to the NH and probably get a box blade for the front.

I got quoted last week at 90K$ CDN for a T6070 with the Elite cab, Terraglide axle and Powercommand 30mph tranny. That tractor is probably overkill but if you are gonna spend 8 hours sitting in the tractor, might as well do it comfortably.

Neige seems to like them too.

The T6070 has 110 hp at the PTO which is more than enough for those blowers. The P920IV blower is rated for 75hp and I got 130HP on the Unimog's PTO and it runs without any problems

My pronovost is bullet proof, I bent a couple of forged steel fences without even scrating the paint on the blower. The SHoule inverted blower must be even stronger, basing myself on the quality of their box blades.

Like you said, a new thread is needed

T6060 cab


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## kcress31

I just priced out a New Holland 6070 as well, and I am thinking it would be an ideal machine for driveways and for our commercial lots as well with the loader add on and a h10 ft or 12 ft Horst blade or a Kage blade. I am looking at a provonost PXPL 98" or a 102" as well. Is there anyone else who makes a bi directional tractor like the 6070? I am thinking of running the blower on the cab end and then switching to the loader and blade on the cab end when needed, just to keep the length as short as possible for the drives and for the maximum visibility.


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## OrganicsL&L

blowerman;1209289 said:


> This is an excellent and informative thread for driveway snow removal... Glad everyone is adding some great suggestions and ideas.
> My personal experience using skid loaders with snowblowers is they work extremely fast until heavy wet snow builds up beyond the 6" amounts or the city wings a 2' plus wind row in front of the driveways.
> At that point my times start to drop off real fast. This was part of my reason for the pxpl. I know some guys debate the expense, but when snow removal is your business and you have enough driveways, it's time to explore more efficient ways to clear the snow.
> I'm glad you guys posted the driveway pic and Paul described how to clear them, as odd angles have been one of my biggest questions about how to use a inverted blower. I'm thinking a inverted is in the works for next year. Now I'm going to have to start a thread about which is the best tractor for this application and which inverted blower to buy.


If you like the PXPL so much, why buy an inverted? It seems that the PXPL gives you the best of both worlds. Just curious as to why not just go with that on all of your tractors?

I second (or third!) the idea of a thread on the tractors....I have many questions on the larger hp models due to a complete lack o experience with them.


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## blowerman

While I do love the PXPL, they are expensive. As a up tight guy that likes to have a "back up for a back up for my back ups" the blower is designed to primarily work on the bi-di tractor and most dealers don't have a spare one around. The bi tractors are on the expensive side for maintenance as well. 
So, I'm thinking to avoid spending another $100k plus on a tractor/blower combo, a normal tractor and inverted blower will be cheaper. Also, some of my accounts would work just fine with a inverted blower.
With a top speed of 19.5 mph, the bi-di isn't the fasted machine to run between projects. 
While this hasn't been a problem as we work in a very tight area, to fan out any farther, I'd like to get up into the mid 20 range.

For Kcress, I haven't had the loader on my TV145 in over two years. While I have a 12 ft. pusher that connects to the loader arms, (no chain ons) the blower is what I bought it for so the loader had to come off. I looked into putting a pusher on the engine end, but why! It's like having a $50K pick-up as a plow truck and then getting out at every account to shovel the walks for 15 minutes. 
Use it as it was intended, blowing snow.

Btw, does anyone else have experience with the inverted blowers that they could share... 
I'm hoping this can be one of the most informative threads on blowers and driveway clearing.
Is Tahoeworks still on this site? Curious to see how his blower is working out in Tahoe?


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## MogMan

blowerman;1210855 said:


> Btw, does anyone else have experience with the inverted blowers that they could share...
> I'm hoping this can be one of the most informative threads on blowers and driveway clearing.
> Is Tahoeworks still on this site? Curious to see how his blower is working out in Tahoe?


I like mine, it's like a Zamboni for snow.

It does a a great job at doing it's thing i.e. one pass and you are done !

The only things I could say about it is that you loose a foot or so at the back from the drum overhang, so you can't get that close to, let's say, a wall or garage door. That's why they offer a hydraulic blade at the back, an option that I didn't get.

Also, if you have to a do circular driveway, since it's inverted, the side of the blower hits the snow bank at an angle vs a normal blower. It doesn't give a clean "cut". They do have an outward vertical "lip" that brings in more snow toward the anger. I'm really nitpicking for a negative point here.

75% of the time, I use it as a box blade. It can hold a good quantity of snow before it spills out. I drag it around until I reach the spot where I can blow it. I don't even use a front blade on my truck anymore.

It also highly serviceable. lots of grease point, replaceable steel cutting edge etc.

If you do driveways, it's awesome. Not so much if your job is to open roads or move piles, since you have to drive over the snow. For me, 26" of snow and the diffs would be touching. In those cases, a V-plow or a normal blower would be better suited.

My 2 cents

Obviously, Neige is the reference with those machines.


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## kcress31

blowerman;1210855 said:


> While I do love the PXPL, they are expensive. As a up tight guy that likes to have a "back up for a back up for my back ups" the blower is designed to primarily work on the bi-di tractor and most dealers don't have a spare one around. The bi tractors are on the expensive side for maintenance as well.
> So, I'm thinking to avoid spending another $100k plus on a tractor/blower combo, a normal tractor and inverted blower will be cheaper. Also, some of my accounts would work just fine with a inverted blower.
> With a top speed of 19.5 mph, the bi-di isn't the fasted machine to run between projects.
> While this hasn't been a problem as we work in a very tight area, to fan out any farther, I'd like to get up into the mid 20 range.
> 
> For Kcress, I haven't had the loader on my TV145 in over two years. While I have a 12 ft. pusher that connects to the loader arms, (no chain ons) the blower is what I bought it for so the loader had to come off. I looked into putting a pusher on the engine end, but why! It's like having a $50K pick-up as a plow truck and then getting out at every account to shovel the walks for 15 minutes.
> Use it as it was intended, blowing snow.
> 
> Btw, does anyone else have experience with the inverted blowers that they could share...
> I'm hoping this can be one of the most informative threads on blowers and driveway clearing.
> Is Tahoeworks still on this site? Curious to see how his blower is working out in Tahoe?


Now that you have mentioned that you haven't had your loader on it 2 years, it is making me think about whether I should even get the loader for my new 6070 I am thinking of purchasing. Once you get proficient at removing and reinstalling the loader how long would you say it woud take? Maybe I should just rig up a pusher on the engine end with a three pt. The reason why I want the loader arms is so that I can use the 6070 like a normal loader with a Horst or a Kage on the cab end when I am not doing drives. If I decide to do drives next year I don't know how many I will pick up in my first season so I thought that It would get a lot of use on my commercial lots while I build my driveway business. The town I live in has only about 1500 residences and currently nobody does driveway blowing so it is an open market. In a few years if I can grow the driveway business enough to warrant the need for a second tractor I will be thinking along the same line as you with a regular inverted blower with a non bi drive tractor.


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## MogMan

kcress31;1212842 said:


> Now that you have mentioned that you haven't had your loader on it 2 years, it is making me think about whether I should even get the loader for my new 6070 I am thinking of purchasing. Once you get proficient at removing and reinstalling the loader how long would you say it woud take? Maybe I should just rig up a pusher on the engine end with a three pt. The reason why I want the loader arms is so that I can use the 6070 like a normal loader with a Horst or a Kage on the cab end when I am not doing drives. If I decide to do drives next year I don't know how many I will pick up in my first season so I thought that It would get a lot of use on my commercial lots while I build my driveway business. The town I live in has only about 1500 residences and currently nobody does driveway blowing so it is an open market. In a few years if I can grow the driveway business enough to warrant the need for a second tractor I will be thinking along the same line as you with a regular inverted blower with a non bi drive tractor.


For the record, the optional loader on a T6070 is 10-15k$ without the bucket.

From vids I saw, it seems that hooking up the loader is a 5min affair.

You could always buy it later on too.

I too would skip those loader arms and get a specific undercarriage that goes with an extendable front plow.

Havent seen an optional front 3-point hitch on those.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

How are those hydraulic arms for the inverted Pronovosts? The people that are in my market would definitely expect a pretty close shave at the garages....not necessarily shoveling, but not 3 feet away either.

This is a great thread, and thank you to everyone who has contributed so far!


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## MogMan

OrganicsL&L;1213000 said:


> How are those hydraulic arms for the inverted Pronovosts? The people that are in my market would definitely expect a pretty close shave at the garages....not necessarily shoveling, but not 3 feet away either.


I specify in my contracts that I will not go closer than 12 inches from a garage door. Nobody ever argues with me on that.

Here's a couple pics of those rear blades, Pronovost and Shoule. You do need a third set of hydraulic connectors to use it. That blade is a 900$ option BTW


----------



## RAZOR

I had a hydraulic back blade on one of Normands but found the using the 3rd valve a pain. I ended up removing the hydraulic cylinder and hanging the blade on chains. It scraped fine and was simplier to use. I don't think they make factory back blades for the smaller blowers that I use now but my dealers has them made up at a metal fabrication shop that he deals with. This picture is not that good but you can see the blade handing on the chains.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

I think the 12" margin is a good sell, and will certainly be acceptable....problem solved. I don't see the drag bar being worth $900, so that won't be going on the blower I buy! What is the web address for SHoule? I've been looking for them and can't seem to find them.


----------



## IMAGE

MogMan;1213063 said:


> I specify in my contracts that I will not go closer than 12 inches from a garage door. Nobody ever argues with me on that.
> 
> Here's a couple pics of those rear blades, Pronovost and Shoule. You do need a third set of hydraulic connectors to use it. That blade is a 900$ option BTW


If you "will not go closer than 12 inches from a garage door" how far away are you actually getting? It looks like the blower housing and gear box sticks out 18" behind the cutting edge. So your 2' away? (judging from your pic in post #61)


----------



## MogMan

IMAGE;1213341 said:


> If you "will not go closer than 12 inches from a garage door" how far away are you actually getting? It looks like the blower houseing sticks out almost 18" behind the cutting edge. So your 2' away?


I would say that I can bring it to around 14" from a door. If a customer would get a measuring tape on me, I wont take him next season. Sometimes when it's slow, for the good customers, i send a sub to hand showel that foot left over. Rarely.

The mog plus the blower weighs in at 16 000lbs. You can see how a garage door doesnt stand a chance. Better safe than sorry. Anyway, in my market, people just want to be able to get out with their cars to go to work, they dont argue much about details.


----------



## MogMan

OrganicsL&L;1213284 said:


> I think the 12" margin is a good sell, and will certainly be acceptable....problem solved. I don't see the drag bar being worth $900, so that won't be going on the blower I buy! What is the web address for SHoule? I've been looking for them and can't seem to find them.


http://www.shoule.com/souffleuse_s492_an.htm

Those look heavy duty !

Neige would know more abour them


----------



## Neige

Your looking at 2 feet from garage doors, any closer and you are pushing it. Don't forget there are lots of garage doors that are recessed 18 inches because of the house having an awning ( not sure if that is the correct term) so you have to careful that the top of your chute does not crush it. (See pic below for example of getting to close) You can always add the back blade later on if you feel you need it. We have never used one and don't plan on starting. The SHoule back blade is spring loaded so no need for extra hydraulics.
http://www.shoule.com/souffleuse_s492_an.htm


----------



## MogMan

Neige;1213458 said:


> Your looking at 2 feet from garage doors, any closer and you are pushing it.
> ...so you have to careful that the top of your chute does not crush it. (See pic below for example of getting to close) You can always add the back blade later on if you feel you need it. We have never used one and don't plan on starting. The SHoule back blade is spring loaded so no need for extra hydraulics.
> http://www.shoule.com/souffleuse_s492_an.htm


The spring ideas sounds good.

I had a couple of close calls too but no hits yet.

Blowing do requires alot of attention and dexterity.

My controls are old-school.

Probably easier and more comfortable with a recent tractor a la T6070

not shown : PTO clutch lever


----------



## MogMan

RAZOR;1213180 said:


> This picture is not that good but you can see the blade handing on the chains.


Nice ride !

I like


----------



## IMAGE

MogMan;1213488 said:


> The spring ideas sounds good.
> 
> I had a couple of close calls too but no hits yet.
> 
> Blowing do requires alot of attention and dexterity.
> 
> My controls are old-school.
> 
> Probably easier and more comfortable with a recent tractor a la T6070
> 
> not shown : PTO clutch lever


Ouch. Do you (and others with inverted blowers) leave the pto engaged most of the time from drive to drive when they are right next to each other, or just when you need it in the drive?


----------



## MogMan

IMAGE;1213528 said:


> Ouch. Do you (and others with inverted blowers) leave the pto engaged most of the time from drive to drive when they are right next to each other, or just when you need it in the drive?


I keep it off most of the time. Safer I think. My blower has had a fair load of gravel go through it and I woudnt want to catch a car with a rock while going to another driveway. Any non-snow objects get spit out kinda fast at 540rpm


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## OrganicsL&L

I have another question, and it may be for another thread, but I'll start here. What are you guys doing with your tractors in the summer?(If you don't farm) This is important to me, being able to utilize a machine as much as possible year round. I'll start another thread if you all want, but I like everybody's info and professionalism in here.


----------



## James D

*A different opinion*

ProTouchGrounds,

(I'm new here, and I joined just to reply to your thread, and encourage you. I think that you are looking at the profitable track, with tractor/blower driveway clearing).

I hope I can give you some good advise. It is: _Don't think too small: Think Big_.

(And hopefully you'll avoid the thinking-small, false economy, mistakes that I have made several times).

Higher productivity _is_ the value of, and the profit from, using the better performing, and more expensive equipment. Using tractor snow blowers for snow clearing has some useful advantages, and it also has some expensive drawbacks; but buying or using low cost, low productivity tractors and blowers probably won't leverage the advantages of snow blowing to the best profits for you. The most productive (usually the more expensive) tractors can best leverage your money. Businessmen spend money to buy profits.

I think that I'm in nearly the same shoes as you; I've built my business up to having a couple of wheel loaders with blades, a couple of Trackless tractors with blowers, and a couple of Holder tractors with blowers. I have four employees, and they run one loader, two Holders, and one Trackless. I'd guess that we're doing close to twice the work that you are doing, from the numbers in your OP, with four machines. I'm not saying that to blow my own horn, I am telling it to try to show the value of more productive equipment.

All of the diffent kinds equipment, previously mentioned in the prev posts in the thread, have big differences in productivity. There are people here in the northern Sierras running all sorts of equipment, so sometimes its easy to make side-by-side comparisons. A Trackless with a Snoquip Double X, center-drive blower, will out perform a Kabota or a skid-steer tractor, about two-to-one. (Apples compared to apples, YMMV, your snow vs my snow, and all of the fine print, etc). Center drive blowers like the Westa, Zaugg, and Snowquip XX out last and out perform the Pronovost boxes, like wise, or more! Also, don't under estimate the really big advantage of articulated steering, and of driving forward with the blower in the front of the tractor, that comes with the high cost tractors.

Switch to blowers and you will increase costs and your time involved, really big time. You will have to match it with increase production, big time. And you MUST increase prices; _You are providing a more valuable service! _ The manicured, pillowed postcard-picture-perfect-snowbank look is a trustifarian's, and a gay decorator's wet dream; you must make them pay for it!

Tractors and snowblowers are a very much deeper business than just this. I would suggest that you lease or buy just one of your choice, or one each of the prospects, and run it/them yourself, next year, before you jump in with all of your employees. The pitfalls of tractor/blower operation can be big, avoiding them will save you big money.

There are a thousand, and more, things to learn... Send me a PM with a p/n, if you'd like some advise on the other things... I hope this might help...

James D


----------



## MogMan

OrganicsL&L;1213626 said:


> I have another question, and it may be for another thread, but I'll start here. What are you guys doing with your tractors in the summer?(If you don't farm) This is important to me, being able to utilize a machine as much as possible year round. I'll start another thread if you all want, but I like everybody's info and professionalism in here.


For some, the tractors are profitable enough to sit through the summer. Or you could complement your business by using the tractors money makin' end i.e. the pto. You could mow lawns, split wood, use a fence post auger, run a water pump, a generator or a wood chipper for example. It all depends on your market, location and/or business model.


----------



## James D

*MogMan yes*

MogMan,

Yes, I've beaten my brains out trying to find find tractor work in the off-season. I've had no luck, I think that that is just another false econmeyy that we chase. Another fool's gold. It may be mercenary, but I've reduced my spread sheet to six months. Period. Make and break (make or break?.. w/a) winter six months is it, for the tractor business.

thanks


----------



## IMAGE

James D;1213701 said:


> MogMan,
> 
> Yes, I've beaten my brains out trying to find find tractor work in the off-season. I've had no luck, I think that that is just another false econmeyy that we chase. Another fool's gold. It may be mercenary, but I've reduced my spread sheet to six months. Period. Make and break (make or break?.. w/a) winter six months is it, for the tractor business.
> 
> thanks


How many years do you run the tractor cost out over? Other have said a 15 year life cycle (purchased new and used only for snow). My simple calculator shows a 50k tractor/blower grossing 675k in 15 years. Seems like a pretty good number, even after expenses its got to be half profit?


----------



## James D

IMAGE,

I'm sorry I didn't mean six months total amortization. I just meant I charge the total expence of snow removal equipment to the snow removal business. Back when I started snow removal, we used back hoes and loaders, and charged half or so of the cost of the equipment to the summer excavating businesses, where we also 'used' the equipment. The problem was that we never really saw a correct return on capital, from the summer business.


----------



## Neige

IMAGE;1213528 said:


> Ouch. Do you (and others with inverted blowers) leave the pto engaged most of the time from drive to drive when they are right next to each other, or just when you need it in the drive?


Its Usually on all the time.



OrganicsL&L;1213626 said:


> I have another question, and it may be for another thread, but I'll start here. What are you guys doing with your tractors in the summer?(If you don't farm) This is important to me, being able to utilize a machine as much as possible year round. I'll start another thread if you all want, but I like everybody's info and professionalism in here.


We store all our tractors for the summer months except for 2. We rent one out to a golf course, and the other to a nursery. Usually after the second season the tractor is completely paid off. That leaves us 13 years of gravy. 



James D;1213680 said:


> ProTouchGrounds,
> 
> (I'm new here, and I joined just to reply to your thread, and encourage you. I think that you are looking at the profitable track, with tractor/blower driveway clearing).
> 
> I hope I can give you some good advise. It is: _Don't think too small: Think Big_.
> 
> (And hopefully you'll avoid the thinking-small, false economy, mistakes that I have made several times).
> 
> Higher productivity _is_ the value of, and the profit from, using the better performing, and more expensive equipment. Using tractor snow blowers for snow clearing has some useful advantages, and it also has some expensive drawbacks; but buying or using low cost, low productivity tractors and blowers probably won't leverage the advantages of snow blowing to the best profits for you. The most productive (usually the more expensive) tractors can best leverage your money. Businessmen spend money to buy profits.
> 
> I think that I'm in nearly the same shoes as you; I've built my business up to having a couple of wheel loaders with blades, a couple of Trackless tractors with blowers, and a couple of Holder tractors with blowers. I have four employees, and they run one loader, two Holders, and one Trackless. I'd guess that we're doing close to twice the work that you are doing, from the numbers in your OP, with four machines. I'm not saying that to blow my own horn, I am telling it to try to show the value of more productive equipment.
> 
> All of the diffent kinds equipment, previously mentioned in the prev posts in the thread, have big differences in productivity. There are people here in the northern Sierras running all sorts of equipment, so sometimes its easy to make side-by-side comparisons. A Trackless with a Snoquip Double X, center-drive blower, will out perform a Kabota or a skid-steer tractor, about two-to-one. (Apples compared to apples, YMMV, your snow vs my snow, and all of the fine print, etc). Center drive blowers like the Westa, Zaugg, and Snowquip XX out last and out perform the Pronovost boxes, like wise, or more! Also, don't under estimate the really big advantage of articulated steering, and of driving forward with the blower in the front of the tractor, that comes with the high cost tractors.
> 
> Switch to blowers and you will increase costs and your time involved, really big time. You will have to match it with increase production, big time. And you MUST increase prices; _You are providing a more valuable service! _ The manicured, pillowed postcard-picture-perfect-snowbank look is a trustifarian's, and a gay decorator's wet dream; you must make them pay for it!
> 
> Tractors and snowblowers are a very much deeper business than just this. I would suggest that you lease or buy just one of your choice, or one each of the prospects, and run it/them yourself, next year, before you jump in with all of your employees. The pitfalls of tractor/blower operation can be big, avoiding them will save you big money.
> 
> There are a thousand, and more, things to learn... Send me a PM with a p/n, if you'd like some advise on the other things... I hope this might help...
> 
> James D


Thanks James that's some great input. I am guessing you handle large volumes of snow ( big snowfalls). My market we see around 80-100 of inches a year, and maybe 3 storms over 12 inches. As far as tractors go, any make with 75 HP will do the job very well with the inverted blower. We are doing about a driveway per min. not sure if I want them to done much faster than that. Over the years we have increased the HP of the tractors we get, to keep up with the increased productivity of the snow blowers. We had 65 HP tractors 30 years ago, we now tend to buy 95 HP tractors. A 75 HP will do fine, but I don't like missing power when I really need it, so less chance of slowing down during big storms. We have alot of Kubota because the price was great, and we have very little maintenance cost with them. On average we put 150 hrs a season, that's nothing for an Ag tractor.
James I am very interested in hearing more about the blowers you use, maybe you can post some pics. I love learning about new kinds of equipment and their uses. Especially from the guys that use them.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Neige, I think our snow seasons are close to the same. We do tend to get some large ocean storms that dump 12+" a few times a year, but mainly the snow that we receive is in the 4-8" category. The biggest difference in my market is the driveways. Many of mine are a lot like the ones that MNlefty showed in the other thread. So maneuverability becomes a little more important. I know the inverted could probably handle any of our storms, my only concern is my ability to maneuver in the driveway itself....how tight can those tractors turn? If they are comparable to a p/u with a plow, then I know it is good enough.

I have looked at those snowquip XX blowers as my town owns a small one for sidewalks, and they will go through anything it seems. However, the lack of versatility is what holds me back on the trackless. 

I am looking at hopefully being able to use the machines at least a little during the summer, plus, if I find good guys, then I would like to keep them on year round, so having tractor work would be helpful on that end as well.

Great info guys!


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## mnlefty

I am really loving this thread guys. I was waiting for somebody to start the next one dedicated to tractors and blowers, but it seems like that can continue here. I have a few more questions...

*It is my assumption that when you drop the inverted blower on the 3pt it is "floating"?* The toolcat/blower I'm using now is obviously on the loader arm, and the float function is fairly useless, so I tend to be constantly tweaking the up/down and tilt. At times this probably gives me a little extra ability to scrape nice and clean, but it also just adds to the "things to do" while in the cab. 
*
Coming down/out of an uphill driveway can they "pinch" as you transition out onto the street?* I don't have a lot of steep drives, but I can think of 2 right off the top of my head that I have to use extra caution with the toolcat arm.

*Any thoughts on the Agco tractor brands?* The guy I rent my shop from is a large commercial contractor and he brought in a couple Challengers on a great winter lease this season. Model was the MT400 series, I forget if it was the 85 or 95 HP. He told me he was paying right about what I paid for the toolcat lease ($850/month). I bought my business, which has been primarily lawn care, and I have some SBA loans for the purchase. I'm a bit more leveraged than I care to be, so a $50,000+ tractor purchase is just not likely, cash or credit, for a couple years.


----------



## MogMan

mnlefty;1213971 said:


> I am really loving this thread guys. I was waiting for somebody to start the next one dedicated to tractors and blowers, but it seems like that can continue here. I have a few more questions...
> 
> *It is my assumption that when you drop the inverted blower on the 3pt it is "floating"?* The toolcat/blower I'm using now is obviously on the loader arm, and the float function is fairly useless, so I tend to be constantly tweaking the up/down and tilt. At times this probably gives me a little extra ability to scrape nice and clean, but it also just adds to the "things to do" while in the cab.
> *
> Coming down/out of an uphill driveway can they "pinch" as you transition out onto the street?* I don't have a lot of steep drives, but I can think of 2 right off the top of my head that I have to use extra caution with the toolcat arm.


It is always dropped and left on float and you can play with the angle with the top link of the 3-point.

Mine is around 1900lbs, so it's heavy enough to be floated and do a good job.

I'm not sure about pinching but the blower isn't hooked on the lowest point of the lift arms. It could go a good 12 inches lower. If you would lift the truck with a crane, the blower would be lower than the truck by that much. I say that in a transition from a grade to flat, the cutting edge would still be making contact.


----------



## PTSolutions

Thanks for all the great insight guys, and im glad we kept it free of a lot of the typical drama. We see between 60-100 inches a year with avg falls around 2-6". We hit maybe 10 drives an hour avg, more in the developments that we have a bunch of drives in. Ive been pushing efficiency since i took over the snow biz about 5 yrs ago and thats reflected in the equip i purchase. After seeing neige and others operations on here i know that a tractor/blower combo is the next logical evolution for our company. As the crow flies, 90% of our resi drives are located within a 2.5 mile stretch. There are two times where the tractors would be on main streets with a 35 mph limit, all other times they will be on the side streets where the liimits are 25 mph, we do not have any drives on the main streets either. 

Sorry for the typos im on my ipad lol


----------



## MogMan

ProTouchGrounds;1214089 said:


> Thanks for all the great insight guys, and im glad we kept it free of a lot of the typical drama. We see between 60-100 inches a year with avg falls around 2-6". We hit maybe 10 drives an hour avg, more in the developments that we have a bunch of drives in. Ive been pushing efficiency since i took over the snow biz about 5 yrs ago and thats reflected in the equip i purchase. After seeing neige and others operations on here i know that a tractor/blower combo is the next logical evolution for our company. As the crow flies, 90% of our resi drives are located within a 2.5 mile stretch. There are two times where the tractors would be on main streets with a 35 mph limit, all other times they will be on the side streets where the liimits are 25 mph, we do not have any drives on the main streets either.
> 
> Sorry for the typos im on my ipad lol


Another advantage about tractor is that some can optionnaly be equipped to go at 50kph.

Some of the NH T60X0 have that feature. I got a couple patches of drives that has 10min worth of driving in between.

Maybe that's common with other brands too, I know only New Hollands.

Also, here, tractors with more than 60hp at the PTO are tax-free (15%).

Score 2 more against loaders in a residential market.


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## PowersTree

Subscribing for later reading.


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## Neige

mnlefty;1213971 said:


> I am really loving this thread guys. I was waiting for somebody to start the next one dedicated to tractors and blowers, but it seems like that can continue here. I have a few more questions...
> 
> *It is my assumption that when you drop the inverted blower on the 3pt it is "floating"?* The toolcat/blower I'm using now is obviously on the loader arm, and the float function is fairly useless, so I tend to be constantly tweaking the up/down and tilt. At times this probably gives me a little extra ability to scrape nice and clean, but it also just adds to the "things to do" while in the cab.
> 
> The blower is in float mode, so it will follow the drives contour. Deep drives of dives that go uphill the is no danger of it pinching.
> *
> Coming down/out of an uphill driveway can they "pinch" as you transition out onto the street?* I don't have a lot of steep drives, but I can think of 2 right off the top of my head that I have to use extra caution with the toolcat arm.
> 
> *Any thoughts on the Agco tractor brands?* The guy I rent my shop from is a large commercial contractor and he brought in a couple Challengers on a great winter lease this season. Model was the MT400 series, I forget if it was the 85 or 95 HP. He told me he was paying right about what I paid for the toolcat lease ($850/month). I bought my business, which has been primarily lawn care, and I have some SBA loans for the purchase. I'm a bit more leveraged than I care to be, so a $50,000+ tractor purchase is just not likely, cash or credit, for a couple years.


The are great tractors, and are agressively trying to get into the market. I am seeing more and more of them being used.



ProTouchGrounds;1214089 said:


> Thanks for all the great insight guys, and im glad we kept it free of a lot of the typical drama. We see between 60-100 inches a year with avg falls around 2-6". We hit maybe 10 drives an hour avg, more in the developments that we have a bunch of drives in. Ive been pushing efficiency since i took over the snow biz about 5 yrs ago and thats reflected in the equip i purchase. After seeing neige and others operations on here i know that a tractor/blower combo is the next logical evolution for our company. As the crow flies, 90% of our resi drives are located within a 2.5 mile stretch. There are two times where the tractors would be on main streets with a 35 mph limit, all other times they will be on the side streets where the liimits are 25 mph, we do not have any drives on the main streets either.
> 
> Sorry for the typos im on my ipad lol


Your route size sounds great, and the tractors are allowed to drive on major streets as well. In Quebec you have to install a red triangle which stands for slow moving vehicle.


----------



## blowerman

More info: 

In regards to the toolcat, skidloader blower combos have the same problem with float, "useless."
If you put the arms in float mode, the front of the machine lifts up. We are always tweaking and adjusting as you go in and out of driveways. In reality, we deal with lots of rolling curbs (if that's what you call them) so as you enter the drive the arms will be up when the machine is in the street and then lowered as the machine crests the curb.
I'd like to think it's a pain always adjusting the arms, but since I switched one of my skids to a Deere 326d with hand controls, the movement is really effortless.
Driveways are cleared in an average of 1 to 2 min. at the most.

The pxpl is used in a float mode: in your right thumb of the F-N-R lever (right side of seat) the three-point hitch is raised and lowered. When you enter the driveway, lower the blower with your thumb as speed gets adjusted accordingly while driving towards the garage. As you get within a few feet of the garage, slow your speed, press your left foot (you can set it to work right or left) toe forward on the pedal that is similar to a bobcat foot control, this lowers the back drag blade and lifts the blower housing off the ground roughly 6" with a little practice you should be able to get within 2-4" of a garage door, at this point we usually back up into the street with the blade down pulling any extra snow that was left in front of the blower while moving forward. When in the street you raise the back drag blade, aim the shoot where you want the snow to be blown, this is done with your right foot pedal, now make the second pass up the driveway if needed. (or third) 
I hope this doesn't sound confusing to anyone, once you get the hang of it, a typical double drive takes us less than a minute and it's cleaned within inches of the garage and the out come is a clean and spotless driveway. I use the poly blade for my back drag edge and a AR 400 steal edge for the blower housing.


----------



## James D

Neige;1213777 said:


> Its Usually on all the time.
> 
> We store all our tractors for the summer months except for 2. We rent one out to a golf course, and the other to a nursery. Usually after the second season the tractor is completely paid off. That leaves us 13 years of gravy.
> 
> Thanks James that's some great input. I am guessing you handle large volumes of snow ( big snowfalls). My market we see around 80-100 of inches a year, and maybe 3 storms over 12 inches. As far as tractors go, any make with 75 HP will do the job very well with the inverted blower. We are doing about a driveway per min. not sure if I want them to done much faster than that. Over the years we have increased the HP of the tractors we get, to keep up with the increased productivity of the snow blowers. We had 65 HP tractors 30 years ago, we now tend to buy 95 HP tractors. A 75 HP will do fine, but I don't like missing power when I really need it, so less chance of slowing down during big storms. We have alot of Kubota because the price was great, and we have very little maintenance cost with them. On average we put 150 hrs a season, that's nothing for an Ag tractor.
> James I am very interested in hearing more about the blowers you use, maybe you can post some pics. I love learning about new kinds of equipment and their uses. Especially from the guys that use them.


Neige,

More horsepower is exactly where we've been going. I guess we're processing more snow,out here. Most of the time, (it seems like all of the time) the tractor ground speed is limited by the PTO load.

I'll post some pic, when I figure out how to do so.

Half our residential area is on a hill side, the other half is flat. The Holder tractors work the best for narrow, steep streets and steep and side-hill driveways. The hitch articulates well, and has down pressure. Holder went from ~80hp to ~95 now, those are DIN hp, they seem a little bit biger than the SAE horses. The Zaugg 80" center drive blowers are a light weight version of their 72cm series, prob the max weight that the tractors can safely carry and push.

The Trackless tractors work best in the flat, the push-frames or hitches don't articulate very well, but they do have down pressure. The tractors use Cummins 3.9 B-series engines. (Bigger electronic injection ones in the newest tractors, I don't know about those). The Cummins 3.9 BT4 start at 115hp. They can be pushed to about 150hp for zero cost and no problems, IMO. The Snoquip center drive blowers are the best deal around. They cost less than the Zaugg or Westa equivalents, they work as well, and are bullet-proof. They are built like a tank.

I'll write more, shortly.


----------



## Mr.Freezzz

You know your company requirements better than any of us. Look at what you have now and the situation your in. Make small adjustments into new things. Of course specific tools work better than others depending on the situation. Big ideas for expansion are a must but one must decide, if the market in his area will provide room for expansion in the trade you want to provide.


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## James D

ProTouchGrounds;1214089 said:


> ... We see between 60-100 inches a year with avg falls around 2-6". We hit maybe 10 drives an hour avg, more in the developments that we have a bunch of drives in.
> 
> ...After seeing neige and others operations on here i know that a tractor/blower combo is the next logical evolution for our company.


ProTouchGrounds,

The 60-100 inch yearly and 2-6 inch avg snow falls look like the same situation that Niege is in, not so close to mine. I saw the 2-20 inch and wet snow in your OP, and thought that is probably about how I would describe my situation (tho' we more often are clearing 20" than 2").

(This is speculation, as I have never used an inverted blower, so here goes...) The Kubota and pull-type blowers look like a good choice, for your situation. For a Toolcat with a blower, like blowerman said about skid-steers, "float" when you are pushing a blower can be problematic, when the blower is on the end of loader arms or a tool changer stick/boom.

What you wrote about you yourself being progressive with equipmment is what will make you successful, IMO. With tractor/blowers, I think that you can significantly improve on your present 10 driveways per hour work rate. We're doing +- 20 per hour, with more snow.

(Almost) Everyone here has switched to blowers, and we are not looking back. I agree with Mogman: Loaders aren't for residental driveways.

I hope that helps,


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## ScnicExcellence

We have on Average about 60" with snowfalls last two years not being a lot at all, not even making it to the 60 inch average. 

My routes are going to be planned with about 50 to 100 houses all within 30sec to 1 min to right next door of each other. routes totals is planned to have around 500 customers. I would think that 4, 70 horse tractors with rear blade and front blower would handle all these just fine. (correct me if i am wrong.)

We have been getting about 1" and mostly 2" snowfalls. Sometimes we get 4 to 6 inches. three years ago we got way more then we are getting for last year and this year.

My question is, Is it worth using tractors here if say i wanted to offer a 1" trigger service. with only servicing the customers once per day. so we won't be doing 1" all the time, Only the time that it snows an inch will it ever happen. So out of ever 10 snow falls probably like 3 will be an inch. 

With this being said what would the best setup be?

60 horse tractor with a 66inch snow blower (would 66" blower even work good? get a great price on these too?)
70 hp tractor with a 84" blower
80 hp tractor with 84" blower
Or 
A compact loader with a 84" blower 

Front mount or rear mount. i was thinking front mount with a back blade. 
Or is rear mount with a front blade better? or just rear mount reversed no blade?

I am doing all the numbers and looking at costs of tractors,

Just wondering has anybody used a jinma tractor for blowing? or even plowing?

I can get all three sizes listed above at an extraordinary price. Like half price of dealers retail. So would i be wise to use any of thos sizes from the tractor jinma or foton lovol tractors?

Or should i just stay with trucks and blades?


One think i didn't see in this thread, maybe i skipped it is the consumption of fuel per tractor per hour? maybe some input would be greatly appreciated.

Not trying to hijack i just was told to post in this thread to get answers because it was almost the same as my initial thread.

Can anybody tell me where i can see a video of neige setup doing driveways with a tractor and blower?


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## MogMan

ScnicExcellence;1215241 said:


> We have on Average about 60" with snowfalls last two years not being a lot at all, not even making it to the 60 inch average.
> 
> My routes are going to be planned with about 50 to 100 houses all within 30sec to 1 min to right next door of each other. routes totals is planned to have around 500 customers. I would think that 4, 70 horse tractors with rear blade and front blower would handle all these just fine. (correct me if i am wrong.)
> 
> We have been getting about 1" and mostly 2" snowfalls. Sometimes we get 4 to 6 inches. three years ago we got way more then we are getting for last year and this year.
> 
> My question is, Is it worth using tractors here if say i wanted to offer a 1" trigger service. with only servicing the customers once per day. so we won't be doing 1" all the time, Only the time that it snows an inch will it ever happen. So out of ever 10 snow falls probably like 3 will be an inch.
> 
> With this being said what would the best setup be?
> 
> 60 horse tractor with a 66inch snow blower (would 66" blower even work good? get a great price on these too?)
> 70 hp tractor with a 84" blower
> 80 hp tractor with 84" blower
> Or
> A compact loader with a 84" blower
> 
> Front mount or rear mount. i was thinking front mount with a back blade.
> Or is rear mount with a front blade better? or just rear mount reversed no blade?
> 
> I am doing all the numbers and looking at costs of tractors,
> 
> Just wondering has anybody used a jinma tractor for blowing? or even plowing?
> 
> I can get all three sizes listed above at an extraordinary price. Like half price of dealers retail. So would i be wise to use any of thos sizes from the tractor jinma or foton lovol tractors?
> 
> Or should i just stay with trucks and blades?
> 
> One think i didn't see in this thread, maybe i skipped it is the consumption of fuel per tractor per hour? maybe some input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Not trying to hijack i just was told to post in this thread to get answers because it was almost the same as my initial thread.
> 
> Can anybody tell me where i can see a video of neige setup doing driveways with a tractor and blower?


I say minimum 75hp at PTO, this way you wont limit yourself to one type of blower.

92" wide, this covers, in one pass, a one car wide driveway.

Maybe you could save this way on buying 3 tractors instead of 4.

Neige does 50-60 driveways per hour this way.

He has a great video on YT tittled New-Holland inverted blower, check it out and count how many driveways get done in the length of that vid.

Your 1" trigger scares me. I write 3" trigger within 24 hours after the start of the snowfall in my contracts. I say too one removal per 24h.

Blower on the back, box blade on the front is what I say.

edit: i just reread your post and saw that you get only 60"/year. Im not sure if what I wrote applies to you. Sorry about that


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## ScnicExcellence

I watched the video, do you or anybody in this matter, have any problems with the bit of snow left in front of the garage? I mean you are going to leave about 1' or 2' of uncleared area? Is this ever a problem?

Also would it be better to have a snow blower with a blade in it hydraulically that pulls most everything out from the front of garage? then blow it to the side? or do you just put in contracts that you will not be clearing this area unless they pay for the shovel service of their sidewalks? At which then a crew would come by later after the tractor is done to shovel the walks and the front of the garage?


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## James D

*Pictures, FWIW*

As promised, here are some pictures from out in the west.








Trackless tractors with Snowquip "XX" 80" center drive snow blowers. The blower boxes are bullet-proof.








Holder tractors with Zaugg 200cm SF-72 blowers.








TV 145 bi-directional tractor and Westa box, Not mine; this one belongs to the fire dept, They clear a 1/2 acre parking lot with it (gold plated toilet seats, and all that...and they can't even buy good tire chains!) A friend here has four of them, with Provonst boxes. He says they do 150% the work of a Holder. Too big for me, I think, It'd be like bringing 'Elsie the Trained Elephant' to a back yard pool party...








Not me. The local parking lot crew; it's a big parking lot!








Muni blowers...

...well, that's the five file maximum...


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## DGODGR

James D;1213680 said:


> ProTouchGrounds,
> 
> (I'm new here, and I joined just to reply to your thread, and encourage you. I think that you are looking at the profitable track, with tractor/blower driveway clearing).
> 
> I hope I can give you some good advise. It is: _Don't think too small: Think Big_.
> 
> (And hopefully you'll avoid the thinking-small, false economy, mistakes that I have made several times).
> 
> Higher productivity _is_ the value of, and the profit from, using the better performing, and more expensive equipment. Using tractor snow blowers for snow clearing has some useful advantages, and it also has some expensive drawbacks; but buying or using low cost, low productivity tractors and blowers probably won't leverage the advantages of snow blowing to the best profits for you. The most productive (usually the more expensive) tractors can best leverage your money. Businessmen spend money to buy profits.
> 
> I think that I'm in nearly the same shoes as you; I've built my business up to having a couple of wheel loaders with blades, a couple of Trackless tractors with blowers, and a couple of Holder tractors with blowers. I have four employees, and they run one loader, two Holders, and one Trackless. I'd guess that we're doing close to twice the work that you are doing, from the numbers in your OP, with four machines. I'm not saying that to blow my own horn, I am telling it to try to show the value of more productive equipment.
> 
> All of the diffent kinds equipment, previously mentioned in the prev posts in the thread, have big differences in productivity. There are people here in the northern Sierras running all sorts of equipment, so sometimes its easy to make side-by-side comparisons. A Trackless with a Snoquip Double X, center-drive blower, will out perform a Kabota or a skid-steer tractor, about two-to-one. (Apples compared to apples, YMMV, your snow vs my snow, and all of the fine print, etc). Center drive blowers like the Westa, Zaugg, and Snowquip XX out last and out perform the Pronovost boxes, like wise, or more! Also, don't under estimate the really big advantage of articulated steering, and of driving forward with the blower in the front of the tractor, that comes with the high cost tractors.
> 
> Switch to blowers and you will increase costs and your time involved, really big time. You will have to match it with increase production, big time. And you MUST increase prices; _You are providing a more valuable service! _ The manicured, pillowed postcard-picture-perfect-snowbank look is a trustifarian's, and a gay decorator's wet dream; you must make them pay for it!
> 
> Tractors and snowblowers are a very much deeper business than just this. I would suggest that you lease or buy just one of your choice, or one each of the prospects, and run it/them yourself, next year, before you jump in with all of your employees. The pitfalls of tractor/blower operation can be big, avoiding them will save you big money.
> 
> There are a thousand, and more, things to learn... Send me a PM with a p/n, if you'd like some advise on the other things... I hope this might help...
> 
> James D


I tend to think this way, when buying equipment, too. It seems as though you guys have touched on this but I think it's worth mentioning again. This is great advice for areas with the massive snowfalls that they get in that area. Maybe somewhere around 200" per year? There are not too many places that get as much snow as the Tahoe area. Other areas will probably not support the large capitol investment required for this model. You may be able to make it work if you amortize over a lot of years but you will still need to have enough cash flow to cover the cost of ownership in the months the machines are sitting idle.



ProTouchGrounds;1214089 said:


> Thanks for all the great insight guys, and im glad we kept it free of a lot of the typical drama. We see between 60-100 inches a year with avg falls around 2-6". We hit maybe 10 drives an hour avg, more in the developments that we have a bunch of drives in. Ive been pushing efficiency since i took over the snow biz about 5 yrs ago and thats reflected in the equip i purchase. After seeing neige and others operations on here i know that a tractor/blower combo is the next logical evolution for our company. As the crow flies, 90% of our resi drives are located within a 2.5 mile stretch. There are two times where the tractors would be on main streets with a 35 mph limit, all other times they will be on the side streets where the liimits are 25 mph, we do not have any drives on the main streets either.
> 
> Sorry for the typos im on my ipad lol


It's good to see that you are still looking in on this thread (your last post was 11/28/10). Can you get enough customers, within the 2.5 mile range you mentioned, to support the purchase and make a profit? 
I have had put some thought into this model myself. I am glad to see all the good information being passed around. The problem I see with this model, for me, is that we don't get that much snow (I think around 69" anually), and how long it would take to generate the required customer base. Next I would worry about breakdowns and the back up plan required to get things done in the event of a breakdown. IMO a small operation would not have a machine sitting around as a back up nor would it have enough, or any, other working units to spread the load of the downed machine to. Any suggestions for combating these issues would be well recieved.


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## James D

DGODGER,

What you said is a point very well taken.

I misunderstood the OP. But I think that the important point is still there: Be progressive in business. And be in front of market change.

For the original poster, I think switching to blowers, for his existing accounts, would be _very_ advantageous. So far as chasing the retired people thing, I have no idea. But my hunch is that, if the municipality is doing it now, I could do the same service, and make a profit doing it.


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## OrganicsL&L

DGODGR;1215368 said:


> I tend to think this way, when buying equipment, too. It seems as though you guys have touched on this but I think it's worth mentioning again. This is great advice for areas with the massive snowfalls that they get in that area. Maybe somewhere around 200" per year? There are not too many places that get as much snow as the Tahoe area. Other areas will probably not support the large capitol investment required for this model. You may be able to make it work if you amortize over a lot of years but you will still need to have enough cash flow to cover the cost of ownership in the months the machines are sitting idle.
> 
> It's good to see that you are still looking in on this thread (your last post was 11/28/10). Can you get enough customers, within the 2.5 mile range you mentioned, to support the purchase and make a profit?
> I have had put some thought into this model myself. I am glad to see all the good information being passed around. The problem I see with this model, for me, is that we don't get that much snow (I think around 69" anually), and how long it would take to generate the required customer base. Next I would worry about breakdowns and the back up plan required to get things done in the event of a breakdown. IMO a small operation would not have a machine sitting around as a back up nor would it have enough, or any, other working units to spread the load of the downed machine to. Any suggestions for combating these issues would be well recieved.


We get approx. the same amount of snow that you do, and knowing what guys are getting for plowing, it is very doable. I know that on the small drives like Neige's, that I could get the same $300 per season, and then we have larger ones where I could be charging $5-600 per season. In terms of getting the work, marketing should drive your business. My thought is worse case scenario, I go into the season figuring that I will be just covering my costs, then when neighbors see the results, i begin to pick up new clients. But I am also confident that I can market enough to pick up 50+ driveways no problem.

As far as a plan "B", talk to your tractor dealer, and see what you can work out with them. My plan is to lease a machine for the first winter, so I would expect that they would have another machine available if the one I have goes down. I will have that all worked out before the season starts though.

Business is a chance, sometimes you have to jump in with both feet and have faith that it will work out. Having studied this idea for 3 winters now, and also having just seen other operations doing it, there is no doubt in my mind that this is the way to go.


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## ScnicExcellence

Has anyone used the jin ma tractors? Will they work for doing the blowing service, I get a great deal on them and would save ALOT of money if they are good enough to use. I can get up to 120 hp in size from these tractors. Just wondering what anybody thinks about using these tractors for snow blowing. I expect to do about 150 to 200 drives per tractor. I am liking the idea of the pxpl blower but holy cost.


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## Bmsnow

*What's goin on JD!!!*

Whats up JD...... Finally someone else from truckee...........Hows Your season goin? Sierra Meadows was lookin good the other day when i was out their.. Anyways seen u in the post and wanted to say whats up!!



James D;1215351 said:


> As promised, here are some pictures from out in the west.
> 
> View attachment 91801
> 
> Trackless tractors with Snowquip "XX" 80" center drive snow blowers. The blower boxes are bullet-proof.
> 
> View attachment 91804
> 
> Holder tractors with Zaugg 200cm SF-72 blowers.
> 
> View attachment 91805
> 
> TV 145 bi-directional tractor and Westa box, Not mine; this one belongs to the fire dept, They clear a 1/2 acre parking lot with it (gold plated toilet seats, and all that...and they can't even buy good tire chains!) A friend here has four of them, with Provonst boxes. He says they do 150% the work of a Holder. Too big for me, I think, It'd be like bringing 'Elsie the Trained Elephant' to a back yard pool party...
> 
> View attachment 91806
> 
> Not me. The local parking lot crew; it's a big parking lot!
> 
> View attachment 91807
> 
> Muni blowers...
> 
> ...well, that's the five file maximum...


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## mnlefty

ScnicExcellence;1215743 said:


> Has anyone used the jin ma tractors? Will they work for doing the blowing service, I get a great deal on them and would save ALOT of money if they are good enough to use. I can get up to 120 hp in size from these tractors. Just wondering what anybody thinks about using these tractors for snow blowing. I expect to do about 150 to 200 drives per tractor. I am liking the idea of the pxpl blower but holy cost.


I'm certainly not the expert to answer the question, but it also seems like there's probably not a lot of experience with that particular brand so I would say this...

I would assume the tractor will work just fine for blowing assuming you can get it equipped with the necessary hydraulics, cab, transmission, hp etc. The blower is not going to know what brand of tractor it's on. The only issue you may experience is the unknown reliability of the line, and I would guess that since you can get such a great deal on them that you would also be able to get great support as well? Obviously nobody wants down time, but things WILL happen. Strong support and quick turnaround is the next best thing to not breaking down. If you can get good support go for the good deal.


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## ScnicExcellence

mnlefty;1215813 said:


> I'm certainly not the expert to answer the question, but it also seems like there's probably not a lot of experience with that particular brand so I would say this...
> 
> I would assume the tractor will work just fine for blowing assuming you can get it equipped with the necessary hydraulics, cab, transmission, hp etc. The blower is not going to know what brand of tractor it's on. The only issue you may experience is the unknown reliability of the line, and I would guess that since you can get such a great deal on them that you would also be able to get great support as well? Obviously nobody wants down time, but things WILL happen. Strong support and quick turnaround is the next best thing to not breaking down. If you can get good support go for the good deal.


The support is good a guess considering that i am going to be importing the tractors myself. There is also three dealers of these same tractors around here within a hour. The cab i can get one there heater and the hydraulics won't be a problem. what type of transmission do i need for them? they come with a manual trans 8 forward 4 reverse This tractor has a thing called Shuttle-type Gearshift F/R to so basically i only need to use clutch when shifting from forward to reverse, when just driving forward i pick one gear and shift between high and low for that gear without using clutch. My guess would be that i need a automatic transmission? They apparently don't come with hydrostatic transmissions.

Would the transmission system i explained work?


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## OrganicsL&L

If you have to clutch every time you switch from forward to reverse, I would say no, that won't work. If you think about it, that is pretty much all you are doing when blowing with an inverted....backing up and pulling out. Lots of clutch work for me. Don't know anything else about the tractor.


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## cretebaby

OrganicsL&L;1215905 said:


> If you have to clutch every time you switch from forward to reverse, I would say no, that won't work.


Why not?

It won't be fun but it _will _work.


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## OrganicsL&L

cretebaby;1215910 said:


> Why not?
> 
> It won't be fun but it _will _work.


I type corrected! I should have said that it would really really really suck to do it that way!


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## Neige

If you can get a really great deal, then it may be worth a try. That its a Chinese tractor so really have no idea what you are getting into. I remember being able to purchase a Belarus ( Russian ) tractor for 18 grand when everyone else was at 32. Took it for a spin, and never looked at one again. I suggest trying out different company models around the same HP. Even it means driving around in the dealers yard, it can give you a good feel what you are getting into. You mentioned wanting to do 150 -200 drives, I will assume mostly you will backing up 3 times, that means clutching between 450 and 600 times a pass. Considering we average 3 passes each time that's 1350 - 1800 pressing in that clutch. When I was much younger that's how we did it, at the end of the day you had a sore neck and knee. I am wondering why you are leaning towards the PXPL, do you get lots of snow where your at? Many guys around the Quebec City area use them, but they average 200+ inches of snow a year with some decent snow storms. I really like this thread, keep the questions and comments coming.


----------



## Neige

ScnicExcellence;1215241 said:


> We have on Average about 60" with snowfalls last two years not being a lot at all, not even making it to the 60 inch average.
> 
> Thats below our average, but comparable.
> 
> My routes are going to be planned with about 50 to 100 houses all within 30sec to 1 min to right next door of each other. routes totals is planned to have around 500 customers. I would think that 4, 70 horse tractors with rear blade and front blower would handle all these just fine. (correct me if i am wrong.)
> 
> 4 tractors in a tight route should handle 500 easy, I would suggest going for 90HP tractors, or at least 70 HP on the PTO, its not the same.
> 
> We have been getting about 1" and mostly 2" snowfalls. Sometimes we get 4 to 6 inches. three years ago we got way more then we are getting for last year and this year.
> 
> My question is, Is it worth using tractors here if say i wanted to offer a 1" trigger service. with only servicing the customers once per day. so we won't be doing 1" all the time, Only the time that it snows an inch will it ever happen. So out of ever 10 snow falls probably like 3 will be an inch.
> 
> I personally dont like the idea of only one service pass a day. What if you get that 6 inch snow fall, and you services the client at 2 inches, are you going to leave the other 4 till the next day? Our resi trigger is 2 inches, if you make yours 1 inch, then you have to start servicing your clients once that trigger is met.
> 
> With this being said what would the best setup be?
> 
> 60 horse tractor with a 66inch snow blower (would 66" blower even work good? get a great price on these too?)
> 70 hp tractor with a 84" blower
> 80 hp tractor with 84" blower
> Or
> A compact loader with a 84" blower
> 
> Front mount or rear mount. i was thinking front mount with a back blade.
> Or is rear mount with a front blade better? or just rear mount reversed no blade?
> 
> With the snow totals your are talking about, I would suggest an inverted blower on a tractor with a min. 75 HP on the PTO. This will definately be your best and fastest combination.I am doing all the numbers and looking at costs of tractors,
> 
> Just wondering has anybody used a jinma tractor for blowing? or even plowing?
> 
> I can get all three sizes listed above at an extraordinary price. Like half price of dealers retail. So would i be wise to use any of thos sizes from the tractor jinma or foton lovol tractors?
> 
> Or should i just stay with trucks and blades?
> 
> How many drives can you do with that combination an hr? Not sure if you will be able to handle 500 drives with 4 trucks.
> 
> One think i didn't see in this thread, maybe i skipped it is the consumption of fuel per tractor per hour? maybe some input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 8-12 liters an hour.
> 
> Not trying to hijack i just was told to post in this thread to get answers because it was almost the same as my initial thread.
> 
> Can anybody tell me where i can see a video of neige setup doing driveways with a tractor and blower?


You can find it here.


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## RAZOR

Paul
Do you know anybody using a Normand Function+ blower? I saw a few pics on the Normand wedsite and it looks a bit different to PXPL even thou it works in a similar way. I saw one upclose at a dealer today, it looks very solid. I was scratching my head for a few minutes trying to figure out how it works. I think it was a 92 inch model and it was priced under $12000.


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## ScnicExcellence

Neige;1216060 said:


> If you can get a really great deal, then it may be worth a try. That its a Chinese tractor so really have no idea what you are getting into. I remember being able to purchase a Belarus ( Russian ) tractor for 18 grand when everyone else was at 32. Took it for a spin, and never looked at one again. I suggest trying out different company models around the same HP. Even it means driving around in the dealers yard, it can give you a good feel what you are getting into. You mentioned wanting to do 150 -200 drives, I will assume mostly you will backing up 3 times, that means clutching between 450 and 600 times a pass. Considering we average 3 passes each time that's 1350 - 1800 pressing in that clutch. When I was much younger that's how we did it, at the end of the day you had a sore neck and knee. I am wondering why you are leaning towards the PXPL, do you get lots of snow where your at? Many guys around the Quebec City area use them, but they average 200+ inches of snow a year with some decent snow storms. I really like this thread, keep the questions and comments coming.


The pxpl only because it has the blade that will scrap in front of the garage door, will just do a nicer job.

The clutching i am not too sure about either i will have to try one out and see if i can handle it and if any employees will be able to handle it, only be for a couple years. I am going to talk with the manufacturer tonight and see if they would come up with a hydrostatic transmission for it, they have them on the loaders so i don't see why they couldn't install them on the tractors.

the tractors after shipping and everything without a blower will be around $25000 for a 100 hp with everything except the blower, comes with year warranty too. same 100 hp tractor from dealer here is about $42000 to $48000. I mean a tractor from a higher end supplier like new holland or kubota will run me a lot more for cost to buy, at least triple what i am paying per tractor. So the clutching doesn't seem too bad to have to handle for a couple years. payuppayup

Plus if this works out for me to get the tractors at the price i am, then in two years i could turn around and sell for as much as i paid for them thus giving me 100% or really close to it back on my investment of buying them. Then i could go out and buy some kubota/new holland or invest in the manufacturer to build them with the hydrostatic drives.

We get 60" per year average. a lot of 1 inch storms lately. How do the blowers do in the low accumulation like 1 inch?

My contracts are going to be all 24 hr contracts. one time per 24 hours with 2 times per 24 hours if we get 10" or more. So we will be doing only one pass 99% of the time. I am not setting up on a regular seasonal i am going to do more so a, seasonal with a cap then charge so much for every time we go out over the cap. Say the cap will be 16 times. chances are we will never go over that cap by more than 4 times. even if we provide a 1 inch contract. so basically they are paying per time with a min charge of 16 times for the season.

Is there anything i am missing here? Just seems like i might be overlooking something.

I have already got the numbers done and my prices set, (hope i don't piss off to many people here in town.) I got prices set and figured for sidewalks and driveways and just driveways or just sidewalks. I am still figuring the total costs involved for equipment. For 500 driveways will i be ok with the 4 tractors? 3 on full time and one back up, or should i have 5, 4 on and 1 back up?

For sidewalks what do you guys do? Do you have a small machine to do sidewalks or just send out about 5 or 10 guys with a couple vehicles and have them go to town paying them per sidewalk? or per hour?

I figure $20 to $25 an hour for a good operator and $15 an hour for shovelers, am i in line i think i am. I am located in Kitchener. Maybe offer a bonus to everyone who shows up on time and everytime at the end of the year like $500 or something, figure that out when i figure out how many drives we actually sign.

I can't understand the category of this thread, this thread belongs in the elements of business more so than the heavy equipment.


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## ScnicExcellence

I can really use any decent blower and make up the blade my self i have the ability to do so. That will save me on costs a lot.


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## blowerman

Scnic, your reason for wanting the pxpl makes sense. Close to the garage and they clean up real nice. 
I'd personally pass on the Chinese tractors, unless the stuff is tried and proven. The big problem with snow is: you can't experiment at 3:00 in the morning, change out to your spare chinese tractor and not have customers want to know where "mr. plow" is at.

Pushing the clutch thousands of times per night, I'll pass. The reason for using the New Holland Bi-Di tractors is that it's hydrostatic. Not that you can't find other hydrostatic tractors, it's just that they are usually lower HP. The TV140/145 and now the 6070 are beasts and run the pxpl with ease.
I personally wouldn't spend the money on a pxpl if it wasn't going to be used on a Bi-Di tractor.
As I previously described how the hydraulics for the back drag blade, shoot & deflector work, the constant RPM of the tractor at 1800-2000 range is another reason for the smoothness of this type of combo.


----------



## mnlefty

ScnicExcellence;1216141 said:


> My contracts are going to be all 24 hr contracts. one time per 24 hours with 2 times per 24 hours if we get 10" or more. So we will be doing only one pass 99% of the time. I am not setting up on a regular seasonal i am going to do more so a, seasonal with a cap then charge so much for every time we go out over the cap. Say the cap will be 16 times. chances are we will never go over that cap by more than 4 times. even if we provide a 1 inch contract. so basically they are paying per time with a min charge of 16 times for the season.
> 
> For sidewalks what do you guys do? Do you have a small machine to do sidewalks or just send out about 5 or 10 guys with a couple vehicles and have them go to town paying them per sidewalk? or per hour?
> 
> I figure $20 to $25 an hour for a good operator and $15 an hour for shovelers, am i in line i think i am. I am located in Kitchener. Maybe offer a bonus to everyone who shows up on time and everytime at the end of the year like $500 or something, figure that out when i figure out how many drives we actually sign.


Thought I'd throw my $.02 in a couple of your questions.

All areas are different in what they will expect for service times, but I can tell you I'd never be able to get away with the once/24 hr thing where I'm at. My contracts state our normal service is to wait for the snow to end and we typically will have everything completed within 8 hrs of the end of the snowfall... however in periods of heavy snow (4+ inches) or snows of extended duration (12 hrs or more) that we will begin clearing during the snowfall in order to service all customers at least once by 7am or 5pm whichever is more applicable. We will then continue with this schedule until the snow has ended.

Earlier this season we had a 17"+ event. It snowed about 3" overnight. I went out about 4am to get started, and the snow picked up to an inch/hr for at least 12 hours. I ran 2x through my route finishing about noon, then again about 7:30 ( about the same time snow ended), clearing 6+ inches each time through. I then ran it through one more time for the final cleanup. I got thank you calls and compliments for the way we handled that storm from at least 1/3rd of my customers. I turned a few customers from skeptics to customers for life.

As for sidewalks... we do sidewalks/steps for all but a couple of our customers... they range just like our driveways do, some long, wide, and winding... some just a few feet and a couple stairs. At present I have 2 guys who ride together that can work through the route fairly close to the same speed I do in the toolcat. On lighter snows, say under 2 inches, they move slightly quicker than I do, 1 guy would probably be enough. Over 2 inches our pace is very close... I might be a little quicker. I pay them exactly what you quoted, $15/hr.


----------



## Neige

RAZOR;1216134 said:


> Paul
> Do you know anybody using a Normand Function+ blower? I saw a few pics on the Normand wedsite and it looks a bit different to PXPL even thou it works in a similar way. I saw one upclose at a dealer today, it looks very solid. I was scratching my head for a few minutes trying to figure out how it works. I think it was a 92 inch model and it was priced under $12000.


Ray I have heard of it, but I am not sold on the usefulness. I am concerned, when you are scraping forward that it will leave a rather large pile of snow in the road. A big no no in my market. Attached you can read how it works.http://www.cienormand.com/depliant/english/FonctionPlus_eng.pdf



ScnicExcellence;1216141 said:


> The pxpl only because it has the blade that will scrap in front of the garage door, will just do a nicer job.
> 
> The clutching i am not too sure about either i will have to try one out and see if i can handle it and if any employees will be able to handle it, only be for a couple years. I am going to talk with the manufacturer tonight and see if they would come up with a hydrostatic transmission for it, they have them on the loaders so i don't see why they couldn't install them on the tractors.
> 
> the tractors after shipping and everything without a blower will be around $25000 for a 100 hp with everything except the blower, comes with year warranty too. same 100 hp tractor from dealer here is about $42000 to $48000. I mean a tractor from a higher end supplier like new holland or kubota will run me a lot more for cost to buy, at least triple what i am paying per tractor. So the clutching doesn't seem too bad to have to handle for a couple years. payuppayup
> 
> Plus if this works out for me to get the tractors at the price i am, then in two years i could turn around and sell for as much as i paid for them thus giving me 100% or really close to it back on my investment of buying them. Then i could go out and buy some kubota/new holland or invest in the manufacturer to build them with the hydrostatic drives.
> 
> We get 60" per year average. a lot of 1 inch storms lately. How do the blowers do in the low accumulation like 1 inch?
> 
> My contracts are going to be all 24 hr contracts. one time per 24 hours with 2 times per 24 hours if we get 10" or more. So we will be doing only one pass 99% of the time. I am not setting up on a regular seasonal i am going to do more so a, seasonal with a cap then charge so much for every time we go out over the cap. Say the cap will be 16 times. chances are we will never go over that cap by more than 4 times. even if we provide a 1 inch contract. so basically they are paying per time with a min charge of 16 times for the season.
> 
> Is there anything i am missing here? Just seems like i might be overlooking something.
> 
> I have already got the numbers done and my prices set, (hope i don't piss off to many people here in town.) I got prices set and figured for sidewalks and driveways and just driveways or just sidewalks. I am still figuring the total costs involved for equipment. For 500 driveways will i be ok with the 4 tractors? 3 on full time and one back up, or should i have 5, 4 on and 1 back up?
> 
> For sidewalks what do you guys do? Do you have a small machine to do sidewalks or just send out about 5 or 10 guys with a couple vehicles and have them go to town paying them per sidewalk? or per hour?
> 
> I figure $20 to $25 an hour for a good operator and $15 an hour for shovelers, am i in line i think i am. I am located in Kitchener. Maybe offer a bonus to everyone who shows up on time and everytime at the end of the year like $500 or something, figure that out when i figure out how many drives we actually sign.
> 
> I can't understand the category of this thread, this thread belongs in the elements of business more so than the heavy equipment.


I am at a loss for the category also, I much perferred where it was before. I think I would go with 4 tractors, if one goes down the others can still pick up the slack. As for your shovelers I find $15 pretty cheap, they are not easy to come by, and even harder to keep motivated.



blowerman;1216156 said:


> Scnic, your reason for wanting the pxpl makes sense. Close to the garage and they clean up real nice.
> I'd personally pass on the Chinese tractors, unless the stuff is tried and proven. The big problem with snow is: you can't experiment at 3:00 in the morning, change out to your spare chinese tractor and not have customers want to know where "mr. plow" is at.
> 
> Pushing the clutch thousands of times per night, I'll pass. The reason for using the New Holland Bi-Di tractors is that it's hydrostatic. Not that you can't find other hydrostatic tractors, it's just that they are usually lower HP. The TV140/145 and now the 6070 are beasts and run the pxpl with ease.
> I personally wouldn't spend the money on a pxpl if it wasn't going to be used on a Bi-Di tractor.
> As I previously described how the hydraulics for the back drag blade, shoot & deflector work, the constant RPM of the tractor at 1800-2000 range is another reason for the smoothness of this type of combo.


I agree Blowerman, if he wants to get close to garege doors he should just go for the back blade option.


----------



## ScnicExcellence

Apparently jin ma and is a good chinese brand. Yes chinese but has been around for a long time. But the ones i would want to get are the foton lovol tractors apparently from the distributor of both in toronto he says the foton is of better quality and will easily be able to be put to work at snow clearing. Maybe i should rent one from someone for a storm here this year and try it out. I have a mechanic on duty to maintain the machines all the time and make sure they are in tip top shape for what they can be. 

From the reviews i can find they are great tractors, if you can have the maintenance done correctly. Grease oil changes and what not torque the bolts when needed. I could easily take care of these tractors to last me 3 or more years and have a decent resale on them (compared to purchase price) as they should still be in great shape. If i had to buy new ones every 4-6 years it would still be worth it until i can afford better, because of the price comparison. I would only be putting 100 hours on each tractor per year for snow clearing at most. if they last me 600 hours for snow clearing that is 6 years of service for that cheap of a price. They will easily pay themselves off in only one year of service plus have decent profit left after paying them off.


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## ScnicExcellence

How much does the back blade option run? I could build something like that myself and install it on a blower for a very small cost to myself. probably only under $1000 easily.


----------



## IMAGE

ScnicExcellence;1216334 said:


> How much does the back blade option run? I could build something like that myself and install it on a blower for a very small cost to myself. probably only under $1000 easily.


Its about a $900 option from Normand with the Tivar rear blade.


----------



## IMAGE

RAZOR;1216134 said:


> Paul
> Do you know anybody using a Normand Function+ blower? I saw a few pics on the Normand wedsite and it looks a bit different to PXPL even thou it works in a similar way. I saw one upclose at a dealer today, it looks very solid. I was scratching my head for a few minutes trying to figure out how it works. I think it was a 92 inch model and it was priced under $12000.


Hey Razor,

The Functions+ can be added to any of the following blowers for about $4,000. So if you already had one it would be a cheaper addition to make it more multifunctional.

N86-260
N86-260TR
N86-280
N86-280TR
N92-280
N92-280TR
N92-310
N98-280
N98-310


----------



## ScnicExcellence

Anybody have any experience with lucknow snow blowers they are made in ontario.

http://www.lucknowproducts.com/content/snowblowers

They have a reverse mount pull blower with many sizes.


----------



## James D

Bmsnow;1215795 said:


> Whats up JD...... Finally someone else from truckee...........Hows Your season goin? Sierra Meadows was lookin good the other day when i was out their.. Anyways seen u in the post and wanted to say whats up!!


Thanks! Just joined, and, yeah, it needs a few more guys from here ;-)


----------



## MogMan

blowerman;1216156 said:


> Scnic, your reason for wanting the pxpl makes sense. Close to the garage and they clean up real nice.


Recent vids of NH TV6070 tractor with a PXPL, shows how close you can go.











Is it possible to embed a YT vid on this board ?


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## ScnicExcellence

Those videos are a good show of it being able to handle 1" pretty good too. The back blade option is going to be a definite must for me.


----------



## blowerman

Nice Job on the Vid post Mogman... Excellent video showing the maneuverability and speed of Bi-Di tractors with the pxpl. Keep meaning to make a new vid myself, but that one did the job.

After looking at the Normand, the unit looks strong, but the back drag blade option doesn't look that great.


----------



## excav8ter

This is a great thread. Thumbs Up. 

What do you guys do when you get a lot of drifting? The subdivision where I live typically gets a LOT of drifting. I was thinking an inverted blower would be the best, but when it comes to 3 and 4 foot drifts sometimes bigger, then what do you do? Front mount PTO? I can't have one of each, so I am curious of what would be the best. We do a fair amount on drives, some roads and a few smaller parking lots. I was thinking toolcat with a blower up front and a backblade out back. But I realize the PTO blowers will throw pretty much any type of snow. We get a couple heavy, wet snows each year.


----------



## blowerman

In the event of 3-4 ft. drifts, the toolcat is a slow choice. If we are getting big drifts (or small) then the driveways get re-done. Most of the time if it's drift clean up, it only takes on pass and then I might charge at 50% of the regular rate. On seasonal accounts, I'm up tight and expect the drives to look perfect, so we go back and re-cut the driveways


----------



## MogMan

excav8ter;1217214 said:


> This is a great thread. Thumbs Up.
> 
> What do you guys do when you get a lot of drifting? The subdivision where I live typically gets a LOT of drifting. I was thinking an inverted blower would be the best, but when it comes to 3 and 4 foot drifts sometimes bigger, then what do you do? Front mount PTO? I can't have one of each, so I am curious of what would be the best. We do a fair amount on drives, some roads and a few smaller parking lots. I was thinking toolcat with a blower up front and a backblade out back. But I realize the PTO blowers will throw pretty much any type of snow. We get a couple heavy, wet snows each year.


For me, over 26" of snow, the truck's diffs would touch.

Like Blowerman said, you would have to redo the driveway every 20" of snow fall. The limit on the P920-IV is 30 some inches. You would'nt have problems like this with a PXPL Thumbs Up


----------



## paper65

These chineses tractors are primitive, they use old technology and are build really cheap. I've heard couples of miserables stories about these junk. Parts and support network are impossible to obtain.They don't start in cold weather. Casting is terribly cheap, I've heard that somebody literraly break the rear axle only by using a back-hoe and he fund rust in the casting. They can do the job for rural homeowner with light application but you definitly don't want to run them on a commercial applications. You better go smaller in reputable company if you can afford to pay for a reputable 90-100hp tractor. I'm sure a JD 4720 is more productive than a 100 hp chinese tractor (hydro, less break down, access to parts and services). I have couples of massey from 5445 to 5460 and Fendt 712 but any brand such NH,JD,Agco,Hewitt,... are better in efficiency and reliability than any chinese tractors. With these machines you won't reach half of the 150-200 DW per tractor you expect, if so you won't be able to give a great service. You save nothing, you run against troubles and downtime, a major brand cost more, give you more and you can expect more if you resale. Run away of these junk, go big or go home.


----------



## paper65

excav8ter if drifting seem to be an issue, you just have to use a regular blower. Inverted is not the only way to go and for those who actually swear by the pxpl because he leave less snow at the end of the driveway you can achieve basically the same result using a regular blower and by reducing your speed couples of foots before the end of the driveway.


----------



## Neige

excav8ter;1217214 said:


> This is a great thread. Thumbs Up.
> 
> What do you guys do when you get a lot of drifting? The subdivision where I live typically gets a LOT of drifting. I was thinking an inverted blower would be the best, but when it comes to 3 and 4 foot drifts sometimes bigger, then what do you do? Front mount PTO? I can't have one of each, so I am curious of what would be the best. We do a fair amount on drives, some roads and a few smaller parking lots. I was thinking toolcat with a blower up front and a backblade out back. But I realize the PTO blowers will throw pretty much any type of snow. We get a couple heavy, wet snows each year.


You can push through most drifts, sometimes the city plow leaves a 4 foot windrow in front of the drive. Just leave your blower at 2 feet off the ground and you punch through the snow. As for the heavy wet snows, there will be a learning curve. At times you make block the chute, and its a real pain to unblock. Just got to keep those RPMs up.


----------



## Neige

paper65;1217253 said:


> These chineses tractors are primitive, they use old technology and are build really cheap. I've heard couples of miserables stories about these junk. Parts and support network are impossible to obtain.They don't start in cold weather. Casting is terribly cheap, I've heard that somebody literraly break the rear axle only by using a back-hoe and he fund rust in the casting. They can do the job for rural homeowner with light application but you definitly don't want to run them on a commercial applications. You better go smaller in reputable company if you can afford to pay for a reputable 90-100hp tractor. I'm sure a JD 4720 is more productive than a 100 hp chinese tractor (hydro, less break down, access to parts and services). I have couples of massey from 5445 to 5460 and Fendt 712 but any brand such NH,JD,Agco,Hewitt,... are better in efficiency and reliability than any chinese tractors. With these machines you won't reach half of the 150-200 DW per tractor you expect, if so you won't be able to give a great service. You save nothing, you run against troubles and downtime, a major brand cost more, give you more and you can expect more if you resale. Run away of these junk, go big or go home.


Hey Paper how do you feel about Kubota?


----------



## paper65

Kubota are great, I just forget to add this brand to the list. I never have the chance to try one but they seem to be built more compact if you compare a 90-100 hp with others brands and that's a great advantage I guess. I use one of the little brother for lawn service, the f3680 diesel is definitily a beast.


----------



## ScnicExcellence

You do know most tractors under 70 to 80 horsepower are made in china, may not be assembled there but are made and then shipped out to be assembled in other countries.

John deere new holland case all the major companies are all buying companies from china because of their great prices and quality is decent for price.

Catepillar medium to small wheel loaders are manufactured there as well.

Can't rule out the chinese builders, just because some people have bad luck, When you buy from china you need to buy a reliable source, jin ma tractors have been around since 1950.


----------



## ScnicExcellence

this is proof of some of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tractors_built_by_other_companies


----------



## cretebaby

Can you point out any current model of Deere sold in the US that is made in china?


----------



## ScnicExcellence

The whole tractor is not produced there but parts from almost every tractor you see in the market today have parts from china. gear box housings and such are apparently in jd from china.

http://www.deere.com/en_US/compinfo/media/pdf/publications/jd_journal/jdjournal_Aug_2007.pdf

What is happening is all the major companies are seeing the potential for growth with using the chinese companies, to manufacture their products. So they started buying the local manufacturing plants and renaming them with their name.

Ningbo Benye is the name of the company john deere bought to rename john deere

China
John Deere (China) Investment Co., Ltd.
5th Floor, Tower A, GATEWAY,
No.18, Xiaguangli, North Road, East Third Ring,
Chaoyang District, Beijing, 100027
CHINA

John Deere (Tianjin) International Trading Co., Ltd.
5th Floor, Tower A, GATEWAY,
No.18, Xiaguangli, North Road, East Third Ring,
Chaoyang District, Beijing, 100027
CHINA

John Deere (Jiamusi) Agricultural Machinery Co., Ltd.
No. 1 Lianmeng Road,
Jiamusi, Heilongjiang, 154002
CHINA 
-- Combine Harvesters

John Deere (Ningbo) Agricultural Machinery Co., Ltd. 
No. 1792 Ci Hai Nan Road, Luo Tuo Street
Zhenhai District, Ningbo, 315002
CHINA 
-- 20-50 HP Agricultural Tractors

John Deere Tiantuo Company Ltd.
278 Hong Qi Road
Tianjin, 300190 
CHINA 
-- Agricultural Tractors and Engines

John Deere (Tianjin) Company Limited 
No. 89, 13th Avenue, TEDA,
Tianjin, 300457
CHINA 
-- Transmissions for John Deere tractors

These are all the companies in china owned by john deere.

You can't say china cannot make a good product.


----------



## RAZOR

My dealer just dropped this off at the shop this afternoon. I got offered a deal that I could not turn down so I traded in my 07.


----------



## cretebaby

ScnicExcellence;1217394 said:


> The whole tractor is not produced there but parts from almost every tractor you see in the market today have parts from china. gear box housings and such are apparently in jd from china.
> 
> http://www.deere.com/en_US/compinfo/media/pdf/publications/jd_journal/jdjournal_Aug_2007.pdf
> 
> What is happening is all the major companies are seeing the potential for growth with using the chinese companies, to manufacture their products. So they started buying the local manufacturing plants and renaming them with their name.
> 
> Ningbo Benye is the name of the company john deere bought to rename john deere
> 
> China
> John Deere (China) Investment Co., Ltd.
> 5th Floor, Tower A, GATEWAY,
> No.18, Xiaguangli, North Road, East Third Ring,
> Chaoyang District, Beijing, 100027
> CHINA
> 
> John Deere (Tianjin) International Trading Co., Ltd.
> 5th Floor, Tower A, GATEWAY,
> No.18, Xiaguangli, North Road, East Third Ring,
> Chaoyang District, Beijing, 100027
> CHINA
> 
> John Deere (Jiamusi) Agricultural Machinery Co., Ltd.
> No. 1 Lianmeng Road,
> Jiamusi, Heilongjiang, 154002
> CHINA
> -- Combine Harvesters
> 
> John Deere (Ningbo) Agricultural Machinery Co., Ltd.
> No. 1792 Ci Hai Nan Road, Luo Tuo Street
> Zhenhai District, Ningbo, 315002
> CHINA
> -- 20-50 HP Agricultural Tractors
> 
> John Deere Tiantuo Company Ltd.
> 278 Hong Qi Road
> Tianjin, 300190
> CHINA
> -- Agricultural Tractors and Engines
> 
> John Deere (Tianjin) Company Limited
> No. 89, 13th Avenue, TEDA,
> Tianjin, 300457
> CHINA
> -- Transmissions for John Deere tractors
> 
> These are all the companies in china owned by john deere.
> 
> You can't say china cannot make a good product.


You realize that Deere builds tractors in China to SELL in China right?

You can't say that because China can build a good product that all of their products are good.


----------



## kcress31

ScnicExcellence;1217394 said:


> The whole tractor is not produced there but parts from almost every tractor you see in the market today have parts from china. gear box housings and such are apparently in jd from china.
> 
> http://www.deere.com/en_US/compinfo/media/pdf/publications/jd_journal/jdjournal_Aug_2007.pdf
> 
> What is happening is all the major companies are seeing the potential for growth with using the chinese companies, to manufacture their products. So they started buying the local manufacturing plants and renaming them with their name.
> 
> Ningbo Benye is the name of the company john deere bought to rename john deere
> 
> China
> John Deere (China) Investment Co., Ltd.
> 5th Floor, Tower A, GATEWAY,
> No.18, Xiaguangli, North Road, East Third Ring,
> Chaoyang District, Beijing, 100027
> CHINA
> 
> John Deere (Tianjin) International Trading Co., Ltd.
> 5th Floor, Tower A, GATEWAY,
> No.18, Xiaguangli, North Road, East Third Ring,
> Chaoyang District, Beijing, 100027
> CHINA
> 
> John Deere (Jiamusi) Agricultural Machinery Co., Ltd.
> No. 1 Lianmeng Road,
> Jiamusi, Heilongjiang, 154002
> CHINA
> -- Combine Harvesters
> 
> John Deere (Ningbo) Agricultural Machinery Co., Ltd.
> No. 1792 Ci Hai Nan Road, Luo Tuo Street
> Zhenhai District, Ningbo, 315002
> CHINA
> -- 20-50 HP Agricultural Tractors
> 
> John Deere Tiantuo Company Ltd.
> 278 Hong Qi Road
> Tianjin, 300190
> CHINA
> -- Agricultural Tractors and Engines
> 
> John Deere (Tianjin) Company Limited
> No. 89, 13th Avenue, TEDA,
> Tianjin, 300457
> CHINA
> -- Transmissions for John Deere tractors
> 
> These are all the companies in china owned by john deere.
> 
> You can't say china cannot make a good product.


I personally would shy way from the made in China tractors or at least if I was looking at buying 4-6 tractors at once, I would try 2 or 3 made in china and the other 2 or 3 would be a deere, kubota, new holland etc. This way you are not putting all of your eggs in one basket.


----------



## MogMan

RAZOR;1217439 said:


> My dealer just dropped this off at the shop this afternoon. I got offered a deal that I could not turn down so I traded in my 07.


Nice combo !


----------



## ScnicExcellence

Well i am going to get one or two tractors in for test runs during the summer to see how they hold up for other things, if they prove their worthiness i will use just those ones, Parts are not a problem here, there is a full warehouse of parts for these tractors about 20 minutes to 25 minutes away.

I do agree though not to put all eggs in one basket that is wise. 

So what i will do is have some rentals set up just in case these don't work out.

On another note the lucknow snowblowers i just talked with a buddy that uses one for his farm and 5 other places, he said they are well built and and quality products, built by the mennonites, they also do custom built ones. maybe i will check them out see if they can built something to suit my needs. As well as get pricing.

The john deeres are made there for sale there and also they export some of them for sale here. the smaller tractors at least.

Believe me in no way am i saying that all china built products are good, but what i am saying is that you can find very good quality items from there with the correct research and time put into it. I am going to be visiting china to check the quality from the manufacturer first. then i will order from the best quality ones that i can find.


----------



## Neige

excav8ter;1217214 said:


> This is a great thread. Thumbs Up.
> 
> What do you guys do when you get a lot of drifting? The subdivision where I live typically gets a LOT of drifting. I was thinking an inverted blower would be the best, but when it comes to 3 and 4 foot drifts sometimes bigger, then what do you do? Front mount PTO? I can't have one of each, so I am curious of what would be the best. We do a fair amount on drives, some roads and a few smaller parking lots. I was thinking toolcat with a blower up front and a backblade out back. But I realize the PTO blowers will throw pretty much any type of snow. We get a couple heavy, wet snows each year.


I just got back in from taking a video on how we remove large drifts. Ok it was pushed snow that has been sitting there for a couple of weeks, but you will get the drift. You will be able to find it on my video and picture thread in just over 2 hours.


----------



## cretebaby

ScnicExcellence;1217462 said:


> The john deeres are made there for sale there and also they export some of them for sale here. the smaller tractors at least.


Which model?

I know some are made in India and some are made in Japan.


----------



## paper65

I'm not saying that china can not make good products, you point jin ma tractors I say stay away, If you want to be trouble free stay behind majors brands, they have proven Quality and most important they have established good northamerican network on parts and services. If you break in the night you want your parts fast and if you need a technician to work on the cdi or anything else you want a quick troubleshooting. I don't direct you to a speficic maker or model, I say you may consider buying a smallest unit with more sophisticated components. You are talking about 150-200 dw per tractor, you target the top of productivity that most of the high end tractors barely reach. You can't achieve this with this unit and this transmission, not if you want to give great service on time. 
If you are looking for pit bike for your kids, you have (honda, yam, suz,ktm,kawa) that have great reliables products, parts and networks. They are expensive compare to the cheapo chinese pit bike, but if you need parts you know you can find those one and when you decide to change you know you gonna have a buyer ready to pay a great price for it. Who is buying used chinese pit bike??? How long does it take to have parts for those chinese pit bike???Who knows??? Are you ready race against leader manufacturer if you have a less than 500$ new bike at the race line. You are spotting the top productivity right???


----------



## blowerman

RAZOR;1217439 said:


> My dealer just dropped this off at the shop this afternoon. I got offered a deal that I could not turn down so I traded in my 07.


Which model is that? 
Hydro or L/H reverser? 
Do you need counter weights on the front?


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Hey Neige/Blowerman et al....what are your "plan B's". Neige I'm assuming that you have 1 or 2 tractors as back ups, but if not, how do you handle a break down. Also, how often do you experience breakdowns on the tractors and blowers. What are the most common issues that you see with the pronovosts and the NH/Kubotas?


----------



## MogMan

OrganicsL&L;1217518 said:


> Neige I'm assuming that you have 1 or 2 tractors as back ups,


LOL !

That's some funny stuff !


----------



## IMAGE

MogMan;1217529 said:


> LOL !
> 
> That's some funny stuff !


Lol x2!!

Hey Blowerman I think RAZOR's Kubota is a 5740 which is a hydro trans. With an Econor 80" blower @1000 lbs, which should be light enough to not need counter weight.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

MogMan;1217529 said:


> LOL !
> 
> That's some funny stuff !


OK, Ok, I know he has a ton of equip, just trying to figure out what he does on break downs. Sorry if the question is a bit archaic, but when I do this, it will be with one machine and a blower. Gonna be holding my breath for the first year!


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## Neige

OrganicsL&L;1217518 said:


> Hey Neige/Blowerman et al....what are your "plan B's". Neige I'm assuming that you have 1 or 2 tractors as back ups, but if not, how do you handle a break down. Also, how often do you experience breakdowns on the tractors and blowers. What are the most common issues that you see with the pronovosts and the NH/Kubotas?


Yes I have 1 spare tractor, only because I have 200 less clients than I anticipated. ( mostly because of 2 light winters in a row, and this one is not helping any. I also have two tractors that are rovers. They help out and cover anyone who breaks down. Then I have John my brother who is our mechanic who drives around with his truck ready to fix most problems on the spot. Al kinds of things can go wrong and do. Flat tires, blown hydraulic hose, lost pins so blowers detach, frozen fuel lines, broken chains on blower, wood jammed into blower, teflon cutting edge ripped from bottom of blower, Wiper not working, no heat, no lights, stuck in driveway, broken stabilize bar, PTO wont go on, tractor stalled, wont start, universal joint broke, PTO shaft snapped, leaking oil, leaking anti freeze, wiper stopped working, lost a tire, broke a window, bearing seized, chute wont turn, and my favorites, I have no more shear bolts, my radio does not work. To name a few. I have 26 tractors out each time, + the commercial stuff. I have yet to go out and nave nothing break down. Most times its at most a 30 minute fix, or they take the spare tractor. I have 7 spare blowers, really only need three, the rest are for sale.


----------



## Neige

OrganicsL&L;1217598 said:


> OK, Ok, I know he has a ton of equip, just trying to figure out what he does on break downs. Sorry if the question is a bit archaic, but when I do this, it will be with one machine and a blower. Gonna be holding my breath for the first year!


You can always have a pickup as your backup, and maybe buy an used blower as a backup. The tractors hold of very well over the years, flat tires are probably your biggest enemy.


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## Neige

Ok the video is up, hope you like it. http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=1217643&posted=1#post1217643


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## Neige

RAZOR;1217439 said:


> My dealer just dropped this off at the shop this afternoon. I got offered a deal that I could not turn down so I traded in my 07.


Beautiful Ray, here is to you getting many years of service out of that machine.


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## blowerman

Thanks Neige, you answered to a larger scale the problems with blower/tractor set ups.
Since all 4 tires are the same size, I have a spare tire & rim ready to go. A basic kit with shear bolts and a few wrenches is a must. 
With the Bobcat blowers I have 3, so one is always a spare. Last snow hooked a curb leaving a driveway with the Deere 326d & 6ft. Bobcat blower only to have the bottom of the blower bend the cutting edge back 6 inches into the housing. 45min. later changed out the blower and kept working.


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## Neige

blowerman;1217666 said:


> Thanks Neige, you answered to a larger scale the problems with blower/tractor set ups.
> Since all 4 tires are the same size, I have a spare tire & rim ready to go. A basic kit with shear bolts and a few wrenches is a must.
> With the Bobcat blowers I have 3, so one is always a spare. Last snow hooked a curb leaving a driveway with the Deere 326d & 6ft. Bobcat blower only to have the bottom of the blower bend the cutting edge back 6 inches into the housing. 45min. later changed out the blower and kept working.


We used to keep spare tires, but now I have to many different sizes to keep up with. We use a 24 hrs tire company, its really only a problem if the destroy the tire.


----------



## MogMan

BTW Neige, what type of cutting edge are you using on those P920-IV ? I went for the standard steel one. They do rust a lot but last long apparently. 

Do you have a lot of driveways in pavers in St-Bruno, to warrant tivar cutting edges ?

Personnaly, I dont sign up customers with pavers.

When they are worn out (the steel ones), do you buy them from Pronovost or get them machined ?


----------



## OrganicsL&L

blowerman;1217666 said:


> Thanks Neige, you answered to a larger scale the problems with blower/tractor set ups.
> Since all 4 tires are the same size, I have a spare tire & rim ready to go. A basic kit with shear bolts and a few wrenches is a must.
> With the Bobcat blowers I have 3, so one is always a spare. Last snow hooked a curb leaving a driveway with the Deere 326d & 6ft. Bobcat blower only to have the bottom of the blower bend the cutting edge back 6 inches into the housing. 45min. later changed out the blower and kept working.


Ok guys, so if you were in my situation, where I would have 1 tractor to start, how would you be equipped? What parts on hand etc? Neige, how many breakdowns do you experience on a given route? It will be me operating the machine for the first year at least, and I have historically been pretty good with equipment so hopefully that would continue!

Man, I think I may have to join SIMA and come see you guys this summer.


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## blowerman

If time allows, I will try and take pictures tomorrow and post to show where we bent the housing on the pxpl. Hooked a concrete heave and the blower bent slightly before bouncing over the crack. There is a local truck frame shop that will cut out the back brace, straighten the housing and then beef it up with new braces. Will also try to take some of the skid blowers to show the weak spots. As for the tractor, last year it ate two alternators with the New Holland dealer stumped as to why. $600 and a 2-3 day rebuild for down time. Kept a spare battery and finished out a route running the least amount of electronics. Gap in the weather and put in the new one.
Always something to fix even if it's new.


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## ScnicExcellence

OrganicsL&L;1217693 said:


> Ok guys, so if you were in my situation, where I would have 1 tractor to start, how would you be equipped? What parts on hand etc? Neige, how many breakdowns do you experience on a given route? It will be me operating the machine for the first year at least, and I have historically been pretty good with equipment so hopefully that would continue!
> 
> Man, I think I may have to join SIMA and come see you guys this summer.


Not talking from experience as i am starting this same venture for next winter.

I would imagine have a few hydraulic lines handy, a tire plug kit and a small compressor that could fill the tire if you get a flat. a small ratchet set to tighten up something if it is loose, some duck tape, this is handy for a lot of things no matter what anybody says. Keep a jug of antifreeze or water in the tractor in case of over heating you can still drive tractor back to shop by refilling the rad. Dress as if you are walking through the snow storm not being in the tractor the whole time, because if you do break down don't want to freeze waiting for someone to come get you.

These are only things i would bring and not from experience either. if anybody else has something to add to the list or take away with reason shoot at it.

Have someone that is ready to pick you up right away if the tractor is completely done. so then you can get to your truck and start back to it.


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## NicholasMWhite

For those of you currently using tractors: Do you ever get complaints about the noise? Not so much from customers, but more from neighbors? I'm just curious.


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## Neige

MogMan;1217678 said:


> BTW Neige, what type of cutting edge are you using on those P920-IV ? I went for the standard steel one. They do rust a lot but last long apparently.
> 
> Do you have a lot of driveways in pavers in St-Bruno, to warrant tivar cutting edges ?
> 
> Personnaly, I dont sign up customers with pavers.
> 
> When they are worn out (the steel ones), do you buy them from Pronovost or get them machined ?


We use HMVW or tefon on all our blowers. Lots of pavers, some sections 80% are interlock drives. We buy a sheet 8x4 that is 2 inches thick. We have it cut in 4 inch wide strips.



OrganicsL&L;1217693 said:


> Ok guys, so if you were in my situation, where I would have 1 tractor to start, how would you be equipped? What parts on hand etc? Neige, how many breakdowns do you experience on a given route? It will be me operating the machine for the first year at least, and I have historically been pretty good with equipment so hopefully that would continue!
> 
> I have 24 routes. Some of them nothing all year, others a couple of times a year.
> 
> Man, I think I may have to join SIMA and come see you guys this summer.


That is an excellent idea



blowerman;1217710 said:


> If time allows, I will try and take pictures tomorrow and post to show where we bent the housing on the pxpl. Hooked a concrete heave and the blower bent slightly before bouncing over the crack. There is a local truck frame shop that will cut out the back brace, straighten the housing and then beef it up with new braces. Will also try to take some of the skid blowers to show the weak spots. As for the tractor, last year it ate two alternators with the New Holland dealer stumped as to why. $600 and a 2-3 day rebuild for down time. Kept a spare battery and finished out a route running the least amount of electronics. Gap in the weather and put in the new one.
> Always something to fix even if it's new.


We have found that generally the new tractor is worryfree for many years. But like you just mentioned most tractors have lots of electronics, no juice or very little and your done.
My brother John who drives around carries spare batteries, PTO shafts, portable torches, hydraulic hoses, fuses (The TV140 has loads of them) etc. Both the New Holland and Kubota dealers are open 24 hrs for parts. You just call ahead, and the parts guy will go down and open the shop for you. It costs you $45 extra that goes straight to the parts guy. worth every penny.



ScnicExcellence;1217876 said:


> Not talking from experience as i am starting this same venture for next winter.
> 
> I would imagine have a few hydraulic lines handy, a tire plug kit and a small compressor that could fill the tire if you get a flat. a small ratchet set to tighten up something if it is loose, some duck tape, this is handy for a lot of things no matter what anybody says. Keep a jug of antifreeze or water in the tractor in case of over heating you can still drive tractor back to shop by refilling the rad. Dress as if you are walking through the snow storm not being in the tractor the whole time, because if you do break down don't want to freeze waiting for someone to come get you.
> 
> Good start but remember there is very little extra space in a tractor. I would forget the portable compressor, it would takes hrs to fill a tire and you would probably burn the thing out. Keep the number of a 24 hr tire repair handy and make sure they can do ag tractor tires. You should always have warm clothing with you, but walking is a really bad idea. Call a cab if you have to, usually very quick service. Keep shear bolts every snowblower usually calls for 2 different sizes, fuses, tie-raps, and ducktape. Another must have at the work shop is a piece of plexi glass. If you break a window in the midle of the night, at least you can install the plexi glass temporarily.
> These are only things i would bring and not from experience either. if anybody else has something to add to the list or take away with reason shoot at it.
> 
> Have someone that is ready to pick you up right away if the tractor is completely done. so then you can get to your truck and start back to it.





NicholasMWhite;1218090 said:


> For those of you currently using tractors: Do you ever get complaints about the noise? Not so much from customers, but more from neighbors? I'm just curious.


It has happened, usually it was in areas where there were 5 different companies clearing snow on the same street. We still have 3 routes where there are 3 companies clearing snow on the same streets.

I realized after I should just have posted the video here, so here goes.


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## OrganicsL&L

Neige, as always, great advice and insight. Thank you for all the time you give us here.


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## PTSolutions

with the standard pronovost inverted blower, how much distance is there from the cutting edge to the back of the blower, basically how much snow will be left in front of the garage while leaving approx 8" between the blower and door?

how does the cutting edge handle catching uneven concrete on driveways? is the tivar edge more forgiving?


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## DGODGR

ScnicExcellence;1217876 said:


> a tire plug kit and a small compressor that could fill the tire if you get a flat.
> 
> 
> 
> While I think the tire plug kit is an excellent idea (if it's a HD unit) I'm not sure if tire punctures are all that common. The only tire trouble I have had, removing snow, has been the tire seprating at the bead due to the effects of cold temperatures on tires (air contracting, slow leaks, etc.). Please correct me if I'm wrong but I assume that's the biggest issue others have as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Neige;1218274 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both the New Holland and Kubota dealers are open 24 hrs for parts. You just call ahead, and the parts guy will go down and open the shop for you. It costs you $45 extra that goes straight to the parts guy. worth every penny.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats all they charge?!! That's great, especially if you consider that the guys, or gal (we must be PC) is getting drug up out of bed to get you your parts. In all my years in business I have never taken advantage of the after hours parts because I have been afraid of the extra expense associated with it. I have never had my Cat or Deere break in the middle of the night (both offer after hours parts) but I have broken my Bobcat several times. My local Bobcat dealer does not offer after hours parts though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Herm Witte

NicholasMWhite;1218090 said:


> For those of you currently using tractors: Do you ever get complaints about the noise? Not so much from customers, but more from neighbors? I'm just curious.


Our New Holland tractor with a Shoule blower makes less noise than most diesel pick ups with front and rear plows.


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## MogMan

ProTouchGrounds;1218534 said:


> with the standard pronovost inverted blower, how much distance is there from the cutting edge to the back of the blower, basically how much snow will be left in front of the garage while leaving approx 8" between the blower and door?
> 
> how does the cutting edge handle catching uneven concrete on driveways? is the tivar edge more forgiving?


I measured 28" 1/2 from the beginning of the cutting edge to rear of the blower.

Since it is on float, the blower would probably jump that uneven concrete.

I unseated a sewer cover once, it just made noise, didn't affect the cutting edge (steel)











__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## blowerman

Herm Witte;1219000 said:


> Our New Holland tractor with a Shoule blower makes less noise than most diesel pick ups with front and rear plows.


Glad to see another inverted user post. Herm, I know you are new to the inverted blowers, but I hope you'll have advice for others that want to use them.


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## IMAGE

Herm Witte;1219000 said:


> Our New Holland tractor with a Shoule blower makes less noise than most diesel pick ups with front and rear plows.


Hey Herm,

What size NH tractor are you running? And which size blower? Have you had much chance to work it this winter? Also I think you have a few smaller tractors? Have you tried it on them?

Thanks, -Steve


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## Herm Witte

IMAGE;1219774 said:


> Hey Herm,
> 
> What size NH tractor are you running? And which size blower? Have you had much chance to work it this winter? Also I think you have a few smaller tractors? Have you tried it on them?
> 
> Thanks, -Steve


We are running the Shoule S-472 Inverted Snow Blower on a New Holland 5030 . We have not tried it on anything else but would like to try it on our John Deere 5083 at some point. After a few hiccups were worked out it has worked flawlessly on light and wet snow from 1 - 5" of accumulation. We have used it for about 8 - 10 events. I am eager for a significant event so we can utilize its true value. I certainly would not put this machine on a smaller tractor than what we have. It is heavy and with our modifications it weighs over 2000 lbs. The New Holland 5030 is a bit light in the front end for this application so we added weights and loaded the front tires to compensate. Power at this point does not seem to be an option.

We used a couple of smaller Kubotas (30 & 50 HP) in other applications in the past - mostly for sidewalk work and pulling out drives in condos. They would not do in this application.

There you have it for now.


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## Herm Witte

blowerman;1219441 said:


> Glad to see another inverted user post. Herm, I know you are new to the inverted blowers, but I hope you'll have advice for others that want to use them.


Thanks Chris,

I'll chime in when appropriate or when asked.


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## IMAGE

Herm Witte;1220467 said:


> We are running the Shoule S-472 Inverted Snow Blower on a New Holland 5030 . We have not tried it on anything else but would like to try it on our John Deere 5083 at some point. After a few hiccups were worked out it has worked flawlessly on light and wet snow from 1 - 5" of accumulation. We have used it for about 8 - 10 events. I am eager for a significant event so we can utilize its true value. I certainly would not put this machine on a smaller tractor than what we have. It is heavy and with our modifications it weighs over 2000 lbs. The New Holland 5030 is a bit light in the front end for this application so we added weights and loaded the front tires to compensate. Power at this point does not seem to be an option.
> 
> We used a couple of smaller Kubotas (30 & 50 HP) in other applications in the past - mostly for sidewalk work and pulling out drives in condos. They would not do in this application.
> 
> There you have it for now.


Thanks thats a great answer to all my questions! I look forward to hearing how the 5083 handles it when you get a chance. :salute:


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## Neige

As you can see from the video, these blowers can handle lots of snow. The tractor was a Kubota M110 giving me 88 HP on the PTO. Less will do but I would have had to shift down into another range. Most times you dont need the power for the driveway, its the snow left by the muni plow thats slows you down.


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## RdTeK

Hello....for me it's a tractor/blower setup. I have a John Deere 6430 with a Pronovost TRC-920 blower.....the tractor has 100 PTO horsepower and it will pound snow.

I have a customer base of 128 driveways....most of them average 4 car lengths long and 2 cars wide and it's in a somewhat country setting so drifting snow is always an issue....the farthest I have to travel is 5 minutes from my shop.....on a normal snowfall....10-15 cm....it takes about 3.5 hours for open them up....the nice thing with a tractor, it doesn't matter how much snow falls, you can put it anywhere.

Here is a pic of my setup:


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## NicholasMWhite

For those of you running tractors: I'm curious as to how the amount of snow really affects your clean up time. What is the difference in total route time for a 2 inch storm compared to a 12 inch storm.

Obviously to a point you will plow with the storm, but lets say that wasn't an option and 12 inches fell in 4 hours.

With a plow it will take about twice as long to clean up 12 inches compared to 2 inches. I know with a blower it isn't even close to that extreme, but what is the real difference?


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## RdTeK

NicholasMWhite;1222094 said:


> For those of you running tractors: I'm curious as to how the amount of snow really affects your clean up time. What is the difference in total route time for a 2 inch storm compared to a 12 inch storm.
> 
> Obviously to a point you will plow with the storm, but lets say that wasn't an option and 12 inches fell in 4 hours.
> 
> With a plow it will take about twice as long to clean up 12 inches compared to 2 inches. I know with a blower it isn't even close to that extreme, but what is the real difference?


Usually, a 2" storm takes roughly 3 hours...12" would certainly double that time....you could 12" of snow in the same gear as 2", but you would be pushing so much snow, the blower just can't get rid of it fast enough, leaving a big pile.


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## MogMan

NicholasMWhite;1222094 said:


> For those of you running tractors: I'm curious as to how the amount of snow really affects your clean up time. What is the difference in total route time for a 2 inch storm compared to a 12 inch storm.
> 
> Obviously to a point you will plow with the storm, but lets say that wasn't an option and 12 inches fell in 4 hours.
> 
> With a plow it will take about twice as long to clean up 12 inches compared to 2 inches. I know with a blower it isn't even close to that extreme, but what is the real difference?


For me, there's no difference time-wise in betwen 3" and 12". Transit time is a bit affected but not by much. I prefer 12 over 3, because slim pickings suks.


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## NicholasMWhite

RdTeK;1222213 said:


> Usually, a 2" storm takes roughly 3 hours...12" would certainly double that time....you could 12" of snow in the same gear as 2", but you would be pushing so much snow, the blower just can't get rid of it fast enough, leaving a big pile.


What made you choose a traditional blower instead of an inverted blower?

It seems an inverted would solve the issue of pushing all the snow and leaving a pile as you could just keep blowing while driving down the street.


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## RdTeK

NicholasMWhite;1222277 said:


> What made you choose a traditional blower instead of an inverted blower?
> 
> It seems an inverted would solve the issue of pushing all the snow and leaving a pile as you could just keep blowing while driving down the street.


An inverted blower would seem fine in the right circumstance, short driveways, cramped areas, etc.....where we are here, the traditional blower is the best choice.


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## blowerman

A few pictures of why "blower service" can suck...
For the amount we use blowers on skidloaders, these are two different Bobcat brand blowers that the shoots have broken off. 
While I do have a older Erskine blower, the shoot is solid as a rock, however I don't use it unless needed because it's a older chain drive with cable style shoot rotation.
I took these tonight so they might not be the best pictures, but just wanted to give an idea of things that break.
The machine is a Deere 326d.


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## RdTeK

blowerman;1222963 said:


> A few pictures of why "blower service" can suck...
> For the amount we use blowers on skidloaders, these are two different Bobcat brand blowers that the shoots have broken off.
> While I do have a older Erskine blower, the shoot is solid as a rock, however I don't use it unless needed because it's a older chain drive with cable style shoot rotation.
> I took these tonight so they might not be the best pictures, but just wanted to give an idea of things that break.
> The machine is a Deere 326d.


Yep.....more moving parts means more things that break.....here's 2X8 fail from last storm.....the shear pin broke just like it's supposed to.....Thumbs Up


----------



## Herm Witte

NicholasMWhite;1222094 said:


> For those of you running tractors: I'm curious as to how the amount of snow really affects your clean up time. What is the difference in total route time for a 2 inch storm compared to a 12 inch storm.
> 
> Obviously to a point you will plow with the storm, but lets say that wasn't an option and 12 inches fell in 4 hours.
> 
> With a plow it will take about twice as long to clean up 12 inches compared to 2 inches. I know with a blower it isn't even close to that extreme, but what is the real difference?


We are under a blizzard warning today and we started plowing and blowing snow last night at 10 PM. Our blower route (New Holland T5030 with the Shoule inverted blower) normally takes about 5 hours took us a tad over six hours today. We started blowing about 4" of snow and ended up blowing over 12" of wind blown snow. Wish I had another blower at this time.


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## OrganicsL&L

How many accounts on that route Herm?


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## Herm Witte

OrganicsL&L;1225353 said:


> How many accounts on that route Herm?


71 residential drives of various lengths and widths and the route density is lacking.


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## PTSolutions

i posted a question on another regarding costing for tractors but only got one response.

when pricing out, about how much $ are the tractors costing per hour? with regards to fuel usage i heard 8-12L per hour? so about 3.5gal. an hour. how about maint. wise? i dont own any tractors so im not positive, i bill out the trucks at 100 an hour and my asv at 120 an hour when doing bids. i am preparing a bid for an 11.5 acre property that i am thinking of putting 2 tractors on with boss bx12 pushers and was curious at what amount i should bid them at as this bid will have to be pretty competitive. im not asking for your profit margin on the hour, just cost. i can add in my operator hourly cost as well.


----------



## Jelinek61

Hey Razor, what size kubota did you buy? How many horsepower?


----------



## DGODGR

ProTouchGrounds;1225621 said:


> i posted a question on another regarding costing for tractors but only got one response.
> 
> when pricing out, about how much $ are the tractors costing per hour? with regards to fuel usage i heard 8-12L per hour? so about 3.5gal. an hour. how about maint. wise? i dont own any tractors so im not positive, i bill out the trucks at 100 an hour and my asv at 120 an hour when doing bids. i am preparing a bid for an 11.5 acre property that i am thinking of putting 2 tractors on with boss bx12 pushers and was curious at what amount i should bid them at as this bid will have to be pretty competitive. im not asking for your profit margin on the hour, just cost. i can add in my operator hourly cost as well.


This can be a complicated answer. A LOT depends on the amount you pay, the type of tractor you buy (some require more maintenance than others), the interest rate you are borrowing at, the time you select to depreciate the purchase, and cost to insure the machine. Of course residual value will factor in as well. I have found a site (offered by Volvo) that is a quick calculator for this. It is modular so you can adjust multiple items and tweak it to suit your specific situation. Check it out. Maybe you can use it to help determine which tractor will fit your business model. I assume that you will be looking at AG tractors (assumption based on your stated intention to switch to blower service) so I can not help much in cost per hour to maintain. Here's the link:
http://www.volvo.com/NR/rdonlyres/6D4A265B-6B9F-4A52-97FC-21F19711B652/0/TCO_public.swf
It's pretty self explanatory. You will need to research some info and plug it in to the calculator. I hope you find it useful.


----------



## PTSolutions

i only need to know operating costs, like fuel, maint. etc... and yes it will be for an ag tractor in the 75-100hp range.

all other stuff i can figure in like operator pay, ins., if it will be bought with loans etc...

ive used that volvo site before but forgot about it, thanks for the heads up.


----------



## blowerman

Well Herm, glad to see the inverted blower lived up to the task. A little update on the blower action. The blizzard sure packed a punch. We did multiple clearings on our accounts and the pxpl worked flawless.
The video today is from a competitor that has a 88 unit condo. They never touched it in 2 days of monster snow. I stopped to laugh but instead offered to help.. 50 units to go and all they had was a steiner tractor with 48" blower.


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## mnlefty

That is just one sweet machine. I wish there were about a 3/4 version of each available. A lot of the drives I service it would be just a bit too much machine on some tight circles, low branches, etc...

The toolcat and 72" blower are almost ideal size for what I'm doing right now, but the blower can be undersized/underpowered in the deeper stuff like that. It's a standard flow machine, but I doubt the high-flow would be dramatically different. The toolcat is also just a tad slower than I'd like as far as road speed.

I wish there was an American made bi-directional tractor similar to the Antonio Carraro stuff that Leon likes to talk about. They have a bi-directional fully hydrostatic tractor that has 94hp, 25mph/40kph top speed, is similar in dimensions to the toolcat, all at a pretty nice price point. Unfortunately there's not enough dealer support here to make me comfortable relying on an Italian tractor for snow work.


----------



## Herm Witte

blowerman;1227028 said:


> Well Herm, glad to see the inverted blower lived up to the task. A little update on the blower action. The blizzard sure packed a punch. We did multiple clearings on our accounts and the pxpl worked flawless.
> The video today is from a competitor that has a 88 unit condo. They never touched it in 2 days of monster snow. I stopped to laugh but instead offered to help.. 50 units to go and all they had was a steiner tractor with 48" blower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE
> Nice video of the PXPL. With the PXPL you have the back hydraulic backdrag feature. That would have been very helpful for us through this event. The back drag piece we had made, similar to that shown on Shoule's website, ended up pushing snow up to the garage door. That piece is spring loaded so it only has 10 - 12 inches of ground clearance when in the air. We're going to have to work on that piece. Other than that I'm very pleased. It seems like this storm moved too fast to plow with the storm - we did plow with the storm but it passed us by.  All is well!


----------



## Neige

ProTouchGrounds;1225766 said:


> i only need to know operating costs, like fuel, maint. etc... and yes it will be for an ag tractor in the 75-100hp range.
> 
> all other stuff i can figure in like operator pay, ins., if it will be bought with loans etc...
> 
> ive used that volvo site before but forgot about it, thanks for the heads up.


Maybe this will help. I made it up for a presentation at the SIMA symposium last year.
On average we use between 10 and 12 liters of fuel /hr, translated 3 gallons/hr. Look below for the attachment



Herm Witte;1227316 said:


> blowerman;1227028 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well Herm, glad to see the inverted blower lived up to the task. A little update on the blower action. The blizzard sure packed a punch. We did multiple clearings on our accounts and the pxpl worked flawless.
> The video today is from a competitor that has a 88 unit condo. They never touched it in 2 days of monster snow. I stopped to laugh but instead offered to help.. 50 units to go and all they had was a steiner tractor with 48" blower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE
> Nice video of the PXPL. With the PXPL you have the back hydraulic backdrag feature. That would have been very helpful for us through this event. The back drag piece we had made, similar to that shown on Shoule's website, ended up pushing snow up to the garage door. That piece is spring loaded so it only has 10 - 12 inches of ground clearance when in the air. We're going to have to work on that piece. Other than that I'm very pleased. It seems like this storm moved too fast to plow with the storm - we did plow with the storm but it passed us by.  All is well!
> 
> 
> 
> Herm I am happy its working for you now. We just sheared our bolts during this storm, I should have gone with the advice I gave you and tack welded it. Oh well live and learn. I have some great videos of the inverted handling loads of snow, really did not affect the time much. Will see if I have time later today to upload them, running on 4 hrs sleep these last 2 days, and have at least 2 more days before we are all caught up. We got around 12 inches with lots of blowing. We really aced this storm, less than 50 calls. Would like to see 2 more like this before the end of the season.
Click to expand...


----------



## MogMan

Neige;1228057 said:


> We just sheared our bolts during this storm, I should have gone with the advice I gave you and tack welded it.


Tack weld it ?

Interesting !

Would you care to elaborate ?


----------



## PTSolutions

thanks neige, that does cut down on alot of the guesswork for me as i've never owned nor operated any type of tractor before, well a 20hp hydro massey ferguson doesnt count.


----------



## Neige

Sure on the SHoule inverted blower the PTO shaft attaches to the spine in the blower. This spline is bolted on with 4 bolts. Over time these bolts will shear, some people had them shearing every outing. We have been out with ours 10 times and it just sheared yesterday. I had suggested to tack weld several spots of the spline to the blower fan, to reinforce the bolts. I suggested this so that the blower can be used till a replacement part was made. SHoule just came out with a stronger replacement part this week. So all should be well.



MogMan;1228090 said:


> Tack weld it ?
> 
> Interesting !
> 
> Would you care to elaborate ?


----------



## MogMan

Neige;1228256 said:


> Sure on the SHoule inverted blower the PTO shaft attaches to the spine in the blower. This spline is bolted on with 4 bolts. Over time these bolts will shear, some people had them shearing every outing. We have been out with ours 10 times and it just sheared yesterday. I had suggested to tack weld several spots of the spline to the blower fan, to reinforce the bolts. I suggested this so that the blower can be used till a replacement part was made. SHoule just came out with a stronger replacement part this week. So all should be well.


I guess that you only need the shear bolt that's on the yellow PTO driveshaft, i.e the one at connecting end of the shaft, before the U-joint.

Are those shear bolt tough to remove once they sheared-off ?


----------



## Golfpro21

how does the inverted blower work on driveways where the city plow has come by and pushed like 4 feet of heavy stuff into the apron of a drive, we have like 10 properties that get this, especially ones that are on the corner lots so when plow turns corner they bring with them all the snow from the other street.

Any info would be muchly appreciated


----------



## MogMan

Golfpro21;1228290 said:


> how does the inverted blower work on driveways where the city plow has come by and pushed like 4 feet of heavy stuff into the apron of a drive, we have like 10 properties that get this, especially ones that are on the corner lots so when plow turns corner they bring with them all the snow from the other street.
> 
> Any info would be muchly appreciated


4 feet is kinda high but when I get a big pile like this I raise the blower and back-it in to cut the top of the pile. I then blow it normally. It might take 2-3 try but it works. See latest Neige video for a demo of this.


----------



## dylan

Neige

Would you be able to post a few pictures of the cutting edges you have installed?

Do you counter sink your bolts so they don't rub on the driveways?

Thanks
Dylan


----------



## dylan

Here are a few shots from the 8 inches we recieved the other day.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Great pics Dylan....is that a PXPL?


----------



## DaySpring Services

Neige modified his blowers. I haven't seen pics of what he actually did though. I know he is using 2 inch poly edges. I'm going to try 1 inch on mine without modifying if I can find somewhere to get some poly. I don't want to buy a 4x8 sheet, just enough to make a set or 2.


----------



## dylan

Thanks, we had a bit of snow to play with. It is a pronovost blower but I made the back blade.


----------



## ScnicExcellence

I know everyone is saying to get a 75 to 100 horse tractor with a 71/2 blower

Just wondering are there 7' blowers that can be handled with a smaller tractor? what kind of performance would i be looking at with a 7' blower on a 45 to 50 horse tractor? no not saying they will keep up with the bigger tractors, just wondering what they can do. 

What kind of performance will a smaller blower get. for example a 72" blower on a 40 horse tractor? What kind of performance could you get from that setup?

I am asking for 2 to 4 car driveways. would i be looking at double the time a bigger tractor would take, for example. neiges video shows approx 30 to 45 seconds for a driveway, lets round that up to 1 minute per driveway. with a 45 horse tractor and a 7' blower with back blade on it could i expect 1 1/2 minutes for these same driveways or 2 minutes?, or would i be wishing?

Just trying to weigh all the options out for this endeavor.


----------



## mnlefty

dylan;1229082 said:


> It is a pronovost blower but I made the back blade.


Do you have any closer pictures?Thumbs Up


----------



## RAZOR

ScnicExcellence;1229118 said:


> I know everyone is saying to get a 75 to 100 horse tractor with a 71/2 blower
> 
> Just wondering are there 7' blowers that can be handled with a smaller tractor? what kind of performance would i be looking at with a 7' blower on a 45 to 50 horse tractor? no not saying they will keep up with the bigger tractors, just wondering what they can do.
> 
> What kind of performance will a smaller blower get. for example a 72" blower on a 40 horse tractor? What kind of performance could you get from that setup?
> 
> I am asking for 2 to 4 car driveways. would i be looking at double the time a bigger tractor would take, for example. neiges video shows approx 30 to 45 seconds for a driveway, lets round that up to 1 minute per driveway. with a 45 horse tractor and a 7' blower with back blade on it could i expect 1 1/2 minutes for these same driveways or 2 minutes?, or would i be wishing?
> 
> Just trying to weigh all the options out for this endeavor.


I'm sure other will disagree but I switched to smaller (50 hp) hydro tractors
and don't find them very much slower blowing driveways even with the smaller blowers. In heavy snow I may have to slow down a bit more but I found the same thing on my 80 hp tractor. It is more having to watch where you are blowing the snow and less about how fast you clear a driveway. The only place that I'm slower is on the road going from A to B but if the route is tight it is not so much of a concern.


----------



## dylan

Here is a quick pic for you. It is not complete yet but I did take it out for a test spin the other night. Works pretty well.


----------



## NicholasMWhite

dylan;1229519 said:


> Here is a quick pic for you. It is not complete yet but I did take it out for a test spin the other night. Works pretty well.


Dylan, what is the hood controlled by?


----------



## dylan

My tractors have a third valve to operate the hydraulic cylinder that is mounted up top by the chute.


----------



## leon

*snowetc.*



ScnicExcellence;1229118 said:


> I know everyone is saying to get a 75 to 100 horse tractor with a 71/2 blower
> 
> Just wondering are there 7' blowers that can be handled with a smaller tractor? what kind of performance would i be looking at with a 7' blower on a 45 to 50 horse tractor? no not saying they will keep up with the bigger tractors, just wondering what they can do.
> 
> What kind of performance will a smaller blower get. for example a 72" blower on a 40 horse tractor? What kind of performance could you get from that setup?
> 
> I am asking for 2 to 4 car driveways. would i be looking at double the time a bigger tractor would take, for example. neiges video shows approx 30 to 45 seconds for a driveway, lets round that up to 1 minute per driveway. with a 45 horse tractor and a 7' blower with back blade on it could i expect 1 1/2 minutes for these same driveways or 2 minutes?, or would i be wishing?
> 
> Just trying to weigh all the options out for this endeavor.


The only way you will gain any speed is with a motorised thrower but the cost is not justified;

You can use P.T.O., powered Pronovost 54 inch sidewalk snow thrower adding a small set of wings properly assembled by a competent welder to add 1 foot to each side using reinforcement struts welded to the wings and side walls ofthe blower BUT it will void the warranty.

This way you can employ a smaller 50 HP cab tractor quickly and easily as it only requires 2 remotes.

The sidewalk snow thrower will have no issues with snow as long as you do not travel in reverse too fast as the impeller will remove more snow than can be fed to it with the augers providing it is not flooded by driving reverse too fast.

The second less costly option is purchasing a Pronovost PUMA 72 inch model snow thrower with complete hydraulics for the chute and spout as standard equipment.

These snow throwers only require 2 remotes as well.


----------



## RAZOR

Jelinek61;1225633 said:


> Hey Razor, what size kubota did you buy? How many horsepower?


Sorry I missed this post. I got another L5740, 50 pto hp.


----------



## Jelinek61

RAZOR;1230394 said:


> Sorry I missed this post. I got another L5740, 50 pto hp.


No problem, how well does it do with the blower. Any problems with it being underpowered?


----------



## RAZOR

No problem with power. This is the 3rd tractor I had with this setup. I even used these blowers on a 5030 wich is around 42 pto hp and never had a problem. The 5740 is turbo so that little extra kick is nice.


----------



## Golfpro21

razor where in the area do you get your machines, and approx cost if its not too sensitive a question


----------



## RAZOR

I don't deal with dealers in this area. They can't be bothered to call me back. My dealer is in Eastern Ontario. Depending on how you set up the tractor it is over $50,000 with a blower.


----------



## blowerman

dylan;1229082 said:


> Thanks, we had a bit of snow to play with. It is a pronovost blower but I made the back blade.


Care to post any close ups or details of what you did to make the back blade?


----------



## Golfpro21

thanks razor

we are looking at a new holland T4030 or 4040, have been quoted $41,600 for the tractor and $7200 for a provo inverted blower....still doing some research on which machine will be best


----------



## MogMan

Golfpro21;1232019 said:


> $7200 for a provo inverted blower....


That is a great price !

I paid 8300$ for mine (tx. included)


----------



## blowerman

Golf & Mog,
Which inverted models do you use: Brand and size


----------



## MogMan

blowerman;1232062 said:


> Golf & Mog,
> Which inverted models do you use: Brand and size


I got a Pronovost P920-iv, that's 92 inches wide, inverted


----------



## PTSolutions

i feel a bit relieved then, i was expecting 10K for a 84-92" prono inverted unit.


----------



## Golfpro21

we were quoted $7200 for the 74" with hydraulic controls and scraper blade plus tax......but talking with a tractor guy I know here in barrie, he recommends Lucknow blowers, half the price...he has used them for years and says they are rock solid


----------



## RAZOR

Golfpro21;1232222 said:


> we were quoted $7200 for the 74" with hydraulic controls and scraper blade plus tax......but talking with a tractor guy I know here in barrie, he recommends Lucknow blowers, half the price...he has used them for years and says they are rock solid


Is your "tractor guy" a dealer, contractor or a farmer? I think there is a reason that Lucknow blowers are 1/2 the price.


----------



## IMAGE

ProTouchGrounds;1232206 said:


> i feel a bit relieved then, i was expecting 10K for a 84-92" prono inverted unit.


Remember your going to have shipping to Ohio.


----------



## Golfpro21

RAZOR;1232321 said:


> Is your "tractor guy" a dealer, contractor or a farmer? I think there is a reason that Lucknow blowers are 1/2 the price.


the guy I talked to runs a tractor/blower here in barrie and has done for years...I am not saying they are the blower to go with.....I don't know alot about the tractor/blower set up...ust trying to gain knowledge of all the options
are there things I should know about lucknow blowers


----------



## PTSolutions

> Remember your going to have shipping to Ohio.


may decide to take a drive up there, nice scenic road trip lol.


----------



## blowerman

ProTouchGrounds;1232376 said:


> may decide to take a drive up there, nice scenic road trip lol.


Shipping is cheap, but if you enjoy the drive; go for it!
I don't think it was all that much, maybe $500 or so when I had mine shipped.


----------



## RAZOR

Golfpro21;1232339 said:


> the guy I talked to runs a tractor/blower here in barrie and has done for years...I am not saying they are the blower to go with.....I don't know alot about the tractor/blower set up...ust trying to gain knowledge of all the options
> are there things I should know about lucknow blowers


I'm not sure if they are good blowers or not, all I'm saying is that most times you get what you pay for. My dad a Argotrend blower on his tractor and has never had a problem with it in the 10 years that he has owned it. The thing is that he only does his own driveway with it. If he did 75 driveways for 30 snowfalls per season I don't think it would hold up that well.


----------



## EGLC

So no one on here likes hydraulic front mount blowers? I'm also looking into the tractor/blower combo and I would like to have the front mounted blower to push back piles where we do plow. Are they really that bad power wise??


----------



## cretebaby

EGLC;1232437 said:


> So no one on here likes hydraulic front mount blowers? I'm also looking into the tractor/blower combo and I would like to have the front mounted blower to push back piles where we do plow. Are they really that bad power wise??


What do you want to mount the hyd. blower to?


----------



## mnlefty

Take this with a grain of salt as I'm no blower expert either...

The one thing that stood out to me when I looked at the specs of the Lucknow blowers a while back was the weight. The 92" weighed about half as much as a similar sized Pronovost or SHoule, Lucknow being barely over 1000 lbs, while the others were very close to 2000. There's not _that_ much difference in how they are designed as far as just more parts, overall size etc... so one could only deduce that much of that difference is made up by using a considerably heavier gauge steel for construction of the frame, auger, and fan. This in turn should theoretically make for a more heavy duty, longer lasting piece, assuming similar quality of assembly.


----------



## Golfpro21

mnlefty;1232444 said:



> Take this with a grain of salt as I'm no blower expert either...
> 
> The one thing that stood out to me when I looked at the specs of the Lucknow blowers a while back was the weight. The 92" weighed about half as much as a similar sized Pronovost or SHoule, Lucknow being barely over 1000 lbs, while the others were very close to 2000. There's not _that_ much difference in how they are designed as far as just more parts, overall size etc... so one could only deduce that much of that difference is made up by using a considerably heavier gauge steel for construction of the frame, auger, and fan. This in turn should theoretically make for a more heavy duty, longer lasting piece, assuming similar quality of assembly.


great info...thanks....totally makes sense too


----------



## EGLC

cretebaby;1232442 said:


> What do you want to mount the hyd. blower to?


it would most likely go on a john deere 4520 (60hp)


----------



## cretebaby

EGLC;1232535 said:


> it would most likely go on a john deere 4520 (60hp)


That tractor, like most, doesn't have enough GPM to run a hydraulic blower so you have to have a PTO powered pump on the 3 point to run them. So then you might as well just run it off the PTO to start with.


----------



## PTSolutions

i wouldnt consider running a hydro front mount blower on a tractor. i have 38gpm at 3300psi on my asv and the blower get loaded up at times. imagine 11-17gpm. unless its a separate pump off a mid pto.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

So, anyone have any experience with a JCB Fastrac? They look like pretty cool machines, not sure if it would make sense in this application, but still a cool lookin' machine! Probably pretty $$$$ too!


----------



## PTSolutions

I had looked into them briefly, their hp, pto abilities, traction and road speed are awesome qualities but no dealers around me and they are pretty expensive from what i remember


----------



## OrganicsL&L

I figured they would be crazy expensive! There is a dealer not too far from me, so just for fun, I'm gonna swing by and chat 'em up. Stay tuned.


----------



## NicholasMWhite

OrganicsL&L;1233057 said:


> I figured they would be crazy expensive! There is a dealer not too far from me, so just for fun, I'm gonna swing by and chat 'em up. Stay tuned.


I'm curious. If you get some prices please post them.

For blowing it seems like overkill as the smallest tractor offered is a 150hp. Being that it has full suspension and air brakes I would guess they start at at least $100k. But it does seem pretty sweet.


----------



## MogMan

NicholasMWhite;1233482 said:


> I'm curious. If you get some prices please post them.
> 
> For blowing it seems like overkill as the smallest tractor offered is a 150hp. Being that it has full suspension and air brakes I would guess they start at at least $100k. But it does seem pretty sweet.


Must be around 150K$

A quick search shows a 7 years old unit for sale in Alberta for 70k$

http://www.marketbook.ca/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6012643&LP=TH&

More here : http://www.marketbook.ca/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&catid=1108&Manu=JCB&MDLGrp=FASTRAC&LP=TH


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Another inverted question....There is a resi route that will be going up for sale for next winter, pretty tight and right where I want to be. There will be a few private roads, one is gravel. How do the blowers work on gravel....could probably just float it up an inch or so. Seeing Neige's vid doing a long drive/road, it looked like they were fast enough. Just figuring that instead of running a plow truck on the road and then the tractor down the road for all the drives, I could to the road and drives with the tractor.

All info is much appreciated!


----------



## NicholasMWhite

OrganicsL&L;1234660 said:


> Another inverted question....There is a resi route that will be going up for sale for next winter, pretty tight and right where I want to be. There will be a few private roads, one is gravel. How do the blowers work on gravel....could probably just float it up an inch or so. Seeing Neige's vid doing a long drive/road, it looked like they were fast enough. Just figuring that instead of running a plow truck on the road and then the tractor down the road for all the drives, I could to the road and drives with the tractor.
> 
> All info is much appreciated!


I'm very interested in this as well as my own driveway is gravel. I don't plan on running it on my own because of the fact that it is gravel but I'd be interest to hear anyone's experiences with an inverted blower on gravel. I personally would think that it's not worth the risk. If the road wasn't graded perfectly smooth you run the risk of push gravel through the blower and that's something I don't think I could live with.


----------



## MogMan

NicholasMWhite;1234698 said:


> I'm very interested in this as well as my own driveway is gravel. I don't plan on running it on my own because of the fact that it is gravel but I'd be interest to hear anyone's experiences with an inverted blower on gravel. I personally would think that it's not worth the risk. If the road wasn't graded perfectly smooth you run the risk of push gravel through the blower and that's something I don't think I could live with.


Mine eats and spits gravel all the time, no biggy. Chips the paint inside the blower but that's it.

First pass of the winter sounds awful but once it's frozen and mixed with snow, there's no problem.

You can also play with the attack angle of the cutting edge with the top link of the 3-point hitch. By extending it a bit, you tip the blower a bit so you're riding on the "heel" of the cutting edge.

Here's a pic of part of my 150' gravel driveway. I passed the blower on it a couple hours ago. 15cm or so. See how smooth it is.

I don't need to tell you how much I lovez my inverted.


----------



## ScnicExcellence

RAZOR;1232321 said:


> Is your "tractor guy" a dealer, contractor or a farmer? I think there is a reason that Lucknow blowers are 1/2 the price.


1/2 the price because everything a Mennonite does is cheaper that is why everyone hires them to build things for them, at least around the out skirts here they do.


----------



## NicholasMWhite

MogMan;1234740 said:


> Mine eats and spits gravel all the time, no biggy. Chips the paint inside the blower but that's it.
> 
> First pass of the winter sounds awful but once it's frozen and mixed with snow, there's no problem.
> 
> You can also play with the attack angle of the cutting edge with the top link of the 3-point hitch. By extending it a bit, you tip the blower a bit so you're riding on the "heel" of the cutting edge.
> 
> Here's a pic of part of my 150' gravel driveway. I passed the blower on it a couple hours ago. 15cm or so. See how smooth it is.
> 
> I don't need to tell you how much I lovez my inverted.


Thanks, that's very helpful. I think what I'd do is plow mine the first time or two of the year and then use the blower. Do you raise it up an inch or just let it float on the ground?


----------



## MogMan

NicholasMWhite;1234935 said:


> Thanks, that's very helpful. I think what I'd do is plow mine the first time or two of the year and then use the blower. Do you raise it up an inch or just let it float on the ground?


I float it all the time. It's kind hard to fine tune the height of the blower with the 3-point. Inch increments is too precise for me


----------



## RAZOR

OrganicsL&L;1234660 said:


> Another inverted question....There is a resi route that will be going up for sale for next winter, pretty tight and right where I want to be. There will be a few private roads, one is gravel. How do the blowers work on gravel....could probably just float it up an inch or so. Seeing Neige's vid doing a long drive/road, it looked like they were fast enough. Just figuring that instead of running a plow truck on the road and then the tractor down the road for all the drives, I could to the road and drives with the tractor.
> 
> All info is much appreciated!


I have one customer with gravel driveway and the shop has a long gravel drive and parking area. Until the ground if frozen I just lift the blower an inch or so above the ground. I find I don't get much gravel through the blower. Once it freezes just lower the blower to the ground like it was pavement.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

I agree, too much adjusting. I will personally leave it set up for the paved driveways, and just raise it a bit for the gravel road. There is only one, the other two roads are both paved, but that doesn't mean that I won't be spitting up asphalt along the way!


----------



## Neige

As soon as I have some time, I will answer all your questions. Been 10 days straight of just 4 - 6 hrs sleep. Did have time to upload the inverted blower clearing 8 inches of snow in driveways with a good size city berm at the apron.


----------



## Golfpro21

Neige;1235010 said:


> As soon as I have some time, I will answer all your questions. Been 10 days straight of just 4 - 6 hrs sleep. Did have time to upload the inverted blower clearing 8 inches of snow in driveways with a good size city berm at the apron.


that vid is great.....totally shows the inverted tackling a good size berm at the apron....pretty much answers my concerns of which type of blower to go with
Thanks Neige


----------



## NicholasMWhite

I have a question about tractor tires.

It seems a lot of guys who are running tractors are recommending the Nokian TRI 2 tires. I was wonder if those make a huge difference when blowing snow. I plan to get a tractor just for blowing with an inverted blower. No plowing at all. That being the case will the R1 ag tires be just fine? I assume traction is a bigger issue when plowing and that's why the tires make a big difference. But if you're only blowing will there be any difference between the Nokian's and R1's?


----------



## NicholasMWhite

Neige;1235010 said:


> As soon as I have some time, I will answer all your questions. Been 10 days straight of just 4 - 6 hrs sleep. Did have time to upload the inverted blower clearing 8 inches of snow in driveways with a good size city berm at the apron.


Thanks Neige. That video is awesome it seems like it takes only about %25 longer to do a heavy snow compared to the light snow you had in the last driveway video you posted. Thanks again and get some sleep!


----------



## EGLC

what make inverted blower is that and what hp tractor? how many drives can a good operator do? do you wait until end of storm or do you make rounds every x"? how do those tires work compared to AG tires?


----------



## OrganicsL&L

EGLC;1235172 said:


> what make inverted blower is that and what hp tractor? how many drives can a good operator do? do you wait until end of storm or do you make rounds every x"? how do those tires work compared to AG tires?


Go back to the beginning of this thread....it is great with a lot of info.


----------



## Triple L

what do you do after the city plows and salts the street? do you still leave all that snow on the street?


----------



## blowerman

Triple L;1235223 said:


> what do you do after the city plows and salts the street? do you still leave all that snow on the street?


I thought the same thing. We take care of a huge condo project that's on all city streets and the owners want the drives cleared before they wake up. Now, city comes by at 7:00 ish in the morning and my skid loader with blower operator has to re-do all the ends.

How do you handle it Paul?


----------



## MogMan

Here's a short clip of me blowin' it.

BTW, this is a gravel alley.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Nice Vid. Looks like that is in mid winter form with the ground frozen solid. My concerns are late fall/early spring when things are a bit soft....but thinking back to my Ariens wb snow blower, I've definitely hit gravel and it just shot out.....just have to be careful where the shoot is aiming!


----------



## Golfpro21

MogMan;1235766 said:


> Here's a short clip of me blowin' it.
> 
> BTW, this is a gravel alley.


Mogman
Nice vid......that machine looks unstopable


----------



## MogMan

Golfpro21;1235861 said:


> Mogman
> Nice vid......that machine looks unstopable


Thanks !

It's gonna be even more unstoppable once I put my hands on a set of 425-size XM47's. The XZL I have are good on the highway but the XM47 is the reference in snow and mud.


----------



## Neige

Just wanted to share with you what it looks like inside the cab while a pro blows the drives.


----------



## cretebaby

Neige;1237417 said:


> Just wanted to share with you what it looks like inside the cab while a pro blows the drives.


 I like how he backs up to the next drive. Saves alot of steps.


----------



## MogMan

Neige;1237417 said:


> Just wanted to share with you what it looks like inside the cab while a pro blows the drives.


Nice !

Is that a TS110 ?


----------



## mnlefty

Neige;1237417 said:


> Just wanted to share with you what it looks like inside the cab while a pro blows the drives.


That is a great video Paul, thanks for sharing. I do have a question though. I can see the hydraulic levers controlling the chute and spout, the PTO raise/lower on the arm rest, and the PTO engagement looks to be on the dash below the raised instrument...

Is this a hydro tractor with fwd and rev as separate pedals or a rocker pedal, or am I missing the fwd/rev shift somewhere with his hands (armrest)??.


----------



## MogMan

mnlefty;1237908 said:


> That is a great video Paul, thanks for sharing. I do have a question though. I can see the hydraulic levers controlling the chute and spout, the PTO raise/lower on the arm rest, and the PTO engagement looks to be on the dash below the raised instrument...
> 
> Is this a hydro tractor with fwd and rev as separate pedals or a rocker pedal, or am I missing the fwd/rev shift somewhere with his hands (armrest)??.


The fwd/rev lever is on the steering column (orange)

pic is from a different NH but it's at the same location


----------



## mnlefty

Feel a bit like an idiot now... I looked for the lever on the column which turns out is just out of view of the camera. Since I couldn't see the actual lever I never watched the left hand close enough to see him shift. His slight of hand got me lol!


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## Neige

Golfpro21;1232339 said:


> the guy I talked to runs a tractor/blower here in barrie and has done for years...I am not saying they are the blower to go with.....I don't know alot about the tractor/blower set up...ust trying to gain knowledge of all the options
> are there things I should know about lucknow blowers


Here are some pics of your choices maybe this will help decide.
In order from left to right. Lucknow - Normand - Pronovst - Shoule is below


----------



## Neige

NicholasMWhite;1234698 said:


> I'm very interested in this as well as my own driveway is gravel. I don't plan on running it on my own because of the fact that it is gravel but I'd be interest to hear anyone's experiences with an inverted blower on gravel. I personally would think that it's not worth the risk. If the road wasn't graded perfectly smooth you run the risk of push gravel through the blower and that's something I don't think I could live with.


Its makes it a little more time consuming. Usually we just turn off the blower and pull it till the road and then blow it on the front lawn. That way you pack it down more quickly. We have a clause in our contracts stating we are not responsible for cleaning up the gravel on their yards in the spring. 



NicholasMWhite;1235055 said:


> I have a question about tractor tires.
> 
> It seems a lot of guys who are running tractors are recommending the Nokian TRI 2 tires. I was wonder if those make a huge difference when blowing snow. I plan to get a tractor just for blowing with an inverted blower. No plowing at all. That being the case will the R1 ag tires be just fine? I assume traction is a bigger issue when plowing and that's why the tires make a big difference. But if you're only blowing will there be any difference between the Nokian's and R1's?


We go with the standard ag tires that come with the tractor. Unless you have steep drives, reg tires will do.



blowerman;1235231 said:


> I thought the same thing. We take care of a huge condo project that's on all city streets and the owners want the drives cleared before they wake up. Now, city comes by at 7:00 ish in the morning and my skid loader with blower operator has to re-do all the ends.
> 
> How do you handle it Paul?


Thats how we do it also. We try to follow the muni plow, and just do after he has gone by. Most times we cannot wait so we service the cleint before and then run around and follow the muni plow and get rid of his windrow. This video shows what I mean.
Its not like this most times, but it does happen.


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## Neige

MogMan;1235766 said:


> Here's a short clip of me blowin' it.
> 
> BTW, this is a gravel alley.


Thats really sweat MogMan. Lots of heads must turn when you drive around in that rig. Thumbs Up


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## OrganicsL&L

The Pronovost, SHoule, and Normand all look about the same quality. That Luck Now doesn't seem as rugged. What do you all think?


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## NicholasMWhite

OrganicsL&L;1239009 said:


> The Pronovost, SHoule, and Normand all look about the same quality. That Luck Now doesn't seem as rugged. What do you all think?


The lucknow looks like a childs toy. It appears as if it doesn't come with hydraulics and the chute turn looks like it's operated by a ram and cables instead of a hydraulic motor. Seems like a far inferior design.


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## MogMan

Neige;1238996 said:


> Thats really sweat MogMan. Lots of heads must turn when you drive around in that rig. Thumbs Up


Yeah, you can actually hear the jaws hit the ground when i drive around. Even worse when I'm on the highway doing 92kph. Works nice but I'm still gonna buy one of your TS110 for next season. Thumbs Up

I'm gonna drop all the accounts that are too far from my HQ.


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## paper65

For those that actually have issue with blower and gravel, you can add wheels mouted on 2 cylinders attach to the blower an use one hydrolic function to raise/lower the blower when you have a gravel driveway. This way you drop the wheel and the blower raise and his support on the wheels. We have actually 3 tractors set this way, works great.


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## excav8ter

So I love this thread and have learned a lot from it.
Here is a question for all of you guys who are currently blowing drives and so on. I live in a subdivision with about 3 miles of 30 foot wide blacktop (asphalt) roads. There are 4 different associations within the "master" association. I plowed all the roads for 3 years and never had any complaints from my neighbors. I had a meeting with everyone in our clubhouse to field questions about how they wanted to see things done. After they told me their ideas, I told them i would do what they asked and then we could make changes as the season went along if they felt it was necessary. I was also awarded all 4 of the internal associations as well. Basically it was 30 some double, triple and quadruple wide drives for single family and condos. Its a cool place to plow for me because I live there. My problem is that we get a LOT of drifting and blowing here and a plow can only do just so much after the banks along the road get 30" tall or so. I have been using my f-350 and my takeuchi tl 130 with a 6' blower to handle it all. This year they got a really cheap bid to take care of everything and i was out. The neighbors are all unhappy because they fell I was doing exactly what each association wanted, and the fact that I live here made them feel good because I was just a phone call away if they needed something. 
The association members have contacted me to tell me how they feel about what is being done and they are not happy. 
They want minimal plowing and as much blowing as I can do for next year. So I am looking for advice on a tractor and blower combo. I will plow the roads to with in 3 to 4 feet of the edge and then blow the rest including the drives. I think for what I am looking at a front mount PTO blower in the 6-7 foot range will be the best. If I can throw the snow about 30 feet i would be in good shape. i will also need to be able to road the tractor from job to job, about 5 miles total.
Is a tractor the best way to go or would a toolcat with a high flow blower do a good job. If i can land all of it there is about 40 drives plus the roads. 

Sorry for the long winded post and thanks for your input.

I should add this... I mentioned the toolcat because some of the drives are pretty tight and about 8 are only 18-20 feet long and 20-30 feet wide. The rest are 40-50 feet long and about 30 feet wide at the top and 20 feet or so at the bottom.


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## DaySpring Services

I'd go with a mid sized Ag tractor and inverted blower. It wont be cheap though. Just blow the roads and driveways.


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## excav8ter

DaySpring Services;1239228 said:


> I'd go with a mid sized Ag tractor and inverted blower. It wont be cheap though. Just blow the roads and driveways.


 I was originally going to go with what you mentioned. But after watching how the last storm affected this place i am concerned that I would not be able to get through the drifts while pulling a blower. We had about 300 yards that was 4-7 feet tall and almost the width of the road. I saw vdzonpaul's video using the inverted to pull through some piles on youtube, but I don't think that would work to well here. It drifts a LOT. we only get about 60" of snow per year, but with the blowing out by our subdivision in can not have snowed for 3 days and I will be plowing all 3 days due to the drifting. 
What would be some good tractors to look at? HP? 
Am i dreaming thinking a toolcat could do it along with my truck and 8'2" V-XT?


----------



## PTSolutions

does the shoule have a spring loaded drag blade? we dont shovel in front of garages unless contracted to do so, but 30" is too much to leave so we have to get the back blade option. its $1K on the normands, but im kind of liking the spring loaded idea, one less maneuver to worry about.

can someone post a link to shoule's site, i tried to google it but results come back as "should" damn autocorrect...


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## MogMan

ProTouchGrounds;1239298 said:


> does the shoule have a spring loaded drag blade? we dont shovel in front of garages unless contracted to do so, but 30" is too much to leave so we have to get the back blade option. its $1K on the normands, but im kind of liking the spring loaded idea, one less maneuver to worry about.
> 
> can someone post a link to shoule's site, i tried to google it but results come back as "should" damn autocorrect...


I too would like a spring loaded type of back blade on my Pronovost. I am brainstorming a home made one. The attachment point are already there. Might go with a fixed blade, using steel tubing with a 6" strip of 1/2" steel, 92 inches long.

A close-up pic of the Shoule system would be helpful.


----------



## DaySpring Services

ProTouchGrounds;1239298 said:


> does the shoule have a spring loaded drag blade? we dont shovel in front of garages unless contracted to do so, but 30" is too much to leave so we have to get the back blade option. its $1K on the normands, but im kind of liking the spring loaded idea, one less maneuver to worry about.


Yes they do have a rear blade as an option. I believe it is around $1500. They have a picture of it on their website.

I'm not sure how a toolcat will do with drifts that deep. It will go though them but it's going to be slow. Just not enough hp with the hydraulics. That's why I got rid of my Bobcat/blower setup.


----------



## blowerman

Does anyone have experience with pronovost back drag blades?

To add: you can google all you want, this is one of the most informative threads for snowblowing service. While I don't have inverted blowers, I do own the pxpl and several skids with blowers, so I hope I've added valuable information as well.


----------



## PTSolutions

but is the shoule spring loaded? i know the normand is hydraulic and i believe the pronovost is as well. im just saying that the spring loaded design is less to worry about, not having to manually activate it and raise it like a spring loaded design.

i meant i cant find shoule's website anywhere.


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## Neige

Here is the website for SHoule http://shoule.com/souffleuse_s492_an.htm


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## IMAGE

Im not sure if they are spring loaded or hyd, but i know the hyd ones can easily be converted to spring loaded.


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## OrganicsL&L

Excav8ter....While I'm not currently using the blower set up, I have been looking at different models of driveway clearing, and will be switching to blowers next year. For what you need, and from what I've learned, I think the blower would work fine for you, as long as you are working it through the storm. My plan would be to blow the roads starting at 4" and keep going throughout the storm. You will probably want to hit the drives a few times in a big storm, but with only 40, that shouldn't take very long. The trick would be to stay in front on those drifted areas. Before I found this thread, I was all excited about a toolcat, but after a demo, no way does it have the stones to do what you want. You want a 100 hp tractor with an inverted. You will be able to do the roads and drives with one machine. JMO.


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## excav8ter

I know the toolcat is gonna be slow. But I have no use for an ag tractor in the no snow months. A toolcat i can use. Maybe I should update my CTL to a high flow, at least that way I could climb up the big drifts to knock the tops off. What tractors have a front pto? Is a 45 HP tractor enough? I did this place for 3 years and never had to get back up help. One year was a lot of work because we got just under 10 feet of snow over the winter. Renting would cost too much. I am hoping to get a 2-3 year deal here to help with securing the purchase.


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## cretebaby

excav8ter;1239393 said:


> I know the toolcat is gonna be slow. But I have no use for an ag tractor in the no snow months. A toolcat i can use. Maybe I should update my CTL to a high flow, at least that way I could climb up the big drifts to knock the tops off. What tractors have a front pto? Is a 45 HP tractor enough? I did this place for 3 years and never had to get back up help. One year was a lot of work because we got just under 10 feet of snow over the winter. Renting would cost too much. I am hoping to get a 2-3 year deal here to help with securing the purchase.


You won't need a front PTO as they make kits that run a shaft from the rear. Erskine has some pretty good pics that will give you an idea of how it is done.


----------



## excav8ter

OrganicsL&L;1239391 said:


> Excav8ter....While I'm not currently using the blower set up, I have been looking at different models of driveway clearing, and will be switching to blowers next year. For what you need, and from what I've learned, I think the blower would work fine for you, as long as you are working it through the storm. My plan would be to blow the roads starting at 4" and keep going throughout the storm. You will probably want to hit the drives a few times in a big storm, but with only 40, that shouldn't take very long. The trick would be to stay in front on those drifted areas. Before I found this thread, I was all excited about a toolcat, but after a demo, no way does it have the stones to do what you want. You want a 100 hp tractor with an inverted. You will be able to do the roads and drives with one machine. JMO.


 You really think a 100 hp is needed? We usually get 2 or 3 bigger snows per year, most are 6" or less. This year we have had more 2-3" snow falls than i can ever remember. I would plow right through a storm if we got one. With a blower on my side I think drifting would be cut down quite a bit just because of minimal piles from the plow. The last storm I had that i plowed here was 2 years a go and I just stayed on top of it. I kept everything open and passable and after the storm i went around and blew out the bad spots with my CTL and the 6 foot blower. One big problem i see here is when the plowed snow along the edge of the road gets over 2 feet tall, the drifting really gets going. We haven't really had snow since last sunday and we have been plowed 3 times due to the drifting and blowing.


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## excav8ter

cretebaby;1239404 said:


> You won't need a front PTO as they make kits that run a shaft from the rear. Erskine has some pretty good pics that will give you an idea of how it is done.


 Thanks, I will look into that. Can you recommend a few tractors to look at? What models and so on. I see a lot of guys going with 100 HP. It seems like a lot to me,but what do i know?


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## cretebaby

excav8ter;1239411 said:


> Thanks, I will look into that. Can you recommend a few tractors to look at? What models and so on. I see a lot of guys going with 100 HP. It seems like a lot to me,but what do i know?


Sorry, can't help you much here other than to say you can't go wrong with green tractors.


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## excav8ter

cretebaby;1239419 said:


> Sorry, can't help you much here other than to say you can't go wrong with green tractors.


Haha, gotcha. My dads buddy owns a few Deere dealerships.


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## MogMan

cretebaby;1239419 said:


> Sorry, can't help you much here other than to say you can't go wrong with green tractors.


How much does a green one cost compared to a blue one, let's say a T6020 (75ish k) ?


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## OrganicsL&L

Excav8....hopefully neige can chime in soon, I think his tractors are in the 85-100hp range. If you are doing roads like that, I would think that you would want the largest blower you can find, if that is the case, then you will need a larger tractor.

Again, this is what I have deduced from research, not field experience. Blowerman, Neige and a few others can certainly help with experience.


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## Neige

excav8ter;1239407 said:


> You really think a 100 hp is needed? We usually get 2 or 3 bigger snows per year, most are 6" or less. This year we have had more 2-3" snow falls than i can ever remember. I would plow right through a storm if we got one. With a blower on my side I think drifting would be cut down quite a bit just because of minimal piles from the plow. The last storm I had that i plowed here was 2 years a go and I just stayed on top of it. I kept everything open and passable and after the storm i went around and blew out the bad spots with my CTL and the 6 foot blower. One big problem i see here is when the plowed snow along the edge of the road gets over 2 feet tall, the drifting really gets going. We haven't really had snow since last sunday and we have been plowed 3 times due to the drifting and blowing.


I really think that 100hp is what you should aim for, remember you want 75hp on the PTO.
What you are talking about doing you want to go with one of the quality blowers that I had mentioned before. The price also gets reflected in how much snow the blower can handle. The size of the drum and fan will make a difference. If you have 5 miles of roads you could do it with only the blower, and would need to make 4 passes. If you really want to windrow it to the side and then blow it on the property, I am afraid the inverted would no longer be your best choice. I really don't think the tool cat will be the right choice either. Sometimes you can rent a tractor from a farmer, could be win win for both of you. Tractor rentals go around 7 grand in my market. Here is a vid that gives you an idea how it handles doing roads. I have to go tomorrow to redo this road because of drifting, I will try and take a video to show you how well it does.


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## excav8ter

OrganicsL&L;1239541 said:


> Excav8....hopefully neige can chime in soon, I think his tractors are in the 85-100hp range. If you are doing roads like that, I would think that you would want the largest blower you can find, if that is the case, then you will need a larger tractor.
> 
> Again, this is what I have deduced from research, not field experience. Blowerman, Neige and a few others can certainly help with experience.


 Thanks Organics. I know bigger is better.... usually. I will be looking at all my options when the time comes. I know a few of the people in the condo associations would freak out a little if I was on their drives with too big of a tractor. But they LOVE the idea of not pushing snow onto their lawns. Blowing on their lawns is ok. They always worry about tire tracks and turf damage.


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## excav8ter

Neige;1239562 said:


> I really think that 100hp is what you should aim for, remember you want 75hp on the PTO.
> What you are talking about doing you want to go with one of the quality blowers that I had mentioned before. The price also gets reflected in how much snow the blower can handle. The size of the drum and fan will make a difference. If you have 5 miles of roads you could do it with only the blower, and would need to make 4 passes. If you really want to windrow it to the side and then blow it on the property, I am afraid the inverted would no longer be your best choice. I really don't think the tool cat will be the right choice either. Sometimes you can rent a tractor from a farmer, could be win win for both of you. Tractor rentals go around 7 grand in my market. Here is a vid that gives you an idea how it handles doing roads. I have to go tomorrow to redo this road because of drifting, I will try and take a video to show you how well it does.


 Thanks! I have seen that video of yours before, it really shows how well the inverted works on long stretches. Do you blow all of your snow? Even the small amounts, like 2' or so?


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## OrganicsL&L

Neige, is that $7k/mo or for the season?


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## MogMan

OrganicsL&L;1239587 said:


> Neige, is that $7k/mo or for the season?


I sure hope it's not per month. With that kind of money you might as well buy one. 1750$/month for 4 month sounds better. 200 drives at 300$ each still leaves you with 53k minus fuel, insurrance, maintenance. That's good monies right there.


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## OrganicsL&L

I agree Mog, kind of freaked me out at first. $7k for the winter would be great. I was quoted $2500/mo for a toolcat with a 72" blower last year. I figured I could make it work if I could do enough drives....which I couldn't with a TC.


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## cretebaby

MogMan;1239525 said:


> How much does a green one cost compared to a blue one, let's say a T6020 (75ish k) ?


Good question. IDK.


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## excav8ter

OrganicsL&L;1239675 said:


> I agree Mog, kind of freaked me out at first. $7k for the winter would be great. I was quoted $2500/mo for a toolcat with a 72" blower last year. I figured I could make it work if I could do enough drives....which I couldn't with a TC.


 I got the same quote. I figured if the jobs i bid specifically for the TC, i would have been better of to buy one and sell it in the spring.


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## PTSolutions

what do you guys think about this tractor for use with a 92" inverted with backblade option and hydro chute/deflector options:

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6114621&


















very few hours on this one:
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6086803&


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## MogMan

ProTouchGrounds;1239980 said:


> what do you guys think about this tractor for use with a 92" inverted with backblade option and hydro chute/deflector options:
> 
> http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6114621&
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> very few hours on this one:
> http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6086803&


OUHHHHHHHH !

Nice rig ! The interior ergonomics looks good

Neige has a couple of those I think. I know that Kubota excavators are the reference, super reliable, don't know much about their tractors. I do know that 26k sounds like a good deal for a 2008 since the NHs that I have been looking at are around 30k but for a 2002 (TS110)


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## NicholasMWhite

MogMan;1239995 said:


> OUHHHHHHHH !
> 
> Nice rig ! The interior ergonomics looks good
> 
> Neige has a couple of those I think. I know that Kubota excavators are the reference, super reliable, don't know much about their tractors. I do know that 26k sounds like a good deal for a 2008 since the NHs that I have been looking at are around 30k but for a 2002 (TS110)


The New Holland TS110 is in a different class than the Kubota M9540. The quote I got for a new Kubota M9540 from my dealer was $43,000. The New Holland TS110 is in the class of the Kubota M110X. The Kubota M110X would go for about $55,000 brand new. The New Holland equivalent of the Kubota M9540 is a T4050. I'm still waiting for a quote on the New Holland T4050. But I expect it to be right around $45,000.

That being said $26,000 is not a bad price. But it still has 2,000 plus hours on it and is a used machine.


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## Neige

OrganicsL&L;1239587 said:


> Neige, is that $7k/mo or for the season?


Sorry I was not specific on this one, thats for 6 months and 250 hrs.



ProTouchGrounds;1239980 said:


> what do you guys think about this tractor for use with a 92" inverted with backblade option and hydro chute/deflector options:
> 
> http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6114621&
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> very few hours on this one:
> http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6086803&


Thats a perfect size tractor for what you want to do. Plenty of HP and the biggest part of the depreciation is gone. If you keep that machine looking that good, it should not depreciate more than 3 grand per year. The hours are just right, good find.


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## MogMan

NicholasMWhite;1240007 said:


> The quote I got for a new Kubota M9540 from my dealer was $43,000. The New Holland TS110 is in the class of the Kubota M110X. The Kubota M110X would go for about $55,000 brand new.


I got quoted around 90k for a T6070, fully loaded


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## NicholasMWhite

MogMan;1240024 said:


> I got quoted around 90k for a T6070, fully loaded


As far as I know a T6070 is a bi-directional tractor. Which I guess would be nice to have but I don't see a huge benefit if you are going to use your P-920-IV with it. A bi-di is VERY nice to have if you have a PXPL. But with an inverted like yours I don't see why you would want one. The T4000 series is the low end. But it is the equivalent of the Mxx40 Kubota series. Of the new New Holland tractors I would say the T6020 would be the closest to a TS110. And I would guess new it would be in the price range of $60,000.


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## MogMan

NicholasMWhite;1240040 said:


> As far as I know a T6070 is a bi-directional tractor. Which I guess would be nice to have but I don't see a huge benefit if you are going to use your P-920-IV with it. A bi-di is VERY nice to have if you have a PXPL. But with an inverted like yours I don't see why you would want one. The T4000 series is the low end. But it is the equivalent of the Mxx40 Kubota series. Of the new New Holland tractors I would say the T6020 would be the closest to a TS110. And I would guess new it would be in the price range of $60,000.


T*V*6070 is the bidi, T6070, is the newer model of a ts110

http://www.agricoleideal.com/list/view_image.cfm?ID=384550&Browse=1&SearchID=63926423&BrowseIndustryID=1&BrowseType=480&BrowseMake=266&BrowseModel=TS110&startrow=1&Act=EQUIPVIEW&listpage=index.cfm


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## NLS1

*Thanks Everyone*

This has been the best thread ever IMO. We are close to adding a 160 unit Town Home Association this next season and are planning to do it with a tractor and blower. This thread has been priceless. Thanks to all those who input and to the OP.

Blowerman, how is the PXPL holding up? That is one awesome looking rig by the way! Ever find it too big? The reason I ask it that the HOA's we are likely adding are tight and the garages have a common drive with garage doors facing each other.

Neige, over the years what does your experience tell you for reliability of tractor brands? Has one been better than others? And are there tractor add-ons or options that are so much more productive that you just couldn't live without it anymore? I need this new machine to be productive and easy to use for the long haul.

Thanks-
Dan


----------



## NicholasMWhite

MogMan;1240041 said:


> T*V*6070 is the bidi, T6070, is the newer model of a ts110
> 
> http://www.agricoleideal.com/list/view_image.cfm?ID=384550&Browse=1&SearchID=63926423&BrowseIndustryID=1&BrowseType=480&BrowseMake=266&BrowseModel=TS110&startrow=1&Act=EQUIPVIEW&listpage=index.cfm


You are correct. I was mistaken. On their website though, they do not show any new model of a T6070. Only a TV6070. The website shows the T6000 series going up to a T6060. Even the T6060 has an engine HP of 130 and a PTO HP of 110. The TS110 has an engine HP of 110 and a PTO HP of 90.

The closest model offered on their website is a T6020 which has the specs listed as engine HP: 110 and PTO HP of 90. I think that would be more than enough for the P-920-IV.

New Holland's T6000 series line up:
http://agriculture.newholland.com/u...ral-Tractors/T6000/Pages/products_models.aspx

Specs of older TS110:
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/003/1/1/3115-new-holland-ts110.html


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## MogMan

NicholasMWhite;1240059 said:


> You are correct. I was mistaken. On their website though, they do not show any new model of a T6070. Only a TV6070. The website shows the T6000 series going up to a T6060. Even the T6060 has an engine HP of 130 and a PTO HP of 110. The TS110 has an engine HP of 110 and a PTO HP of 90.
> 
> The closest model offered on their website is a T6020 which has the specs listed as engine HP: 110 and PTO HP of 90. I think that would be more than enough for the P-920-IV.
> 
> New Holland's T6000 series line up:
> http://agriculture.newholland.com/u...ral-Tractors/T6000/Pages/products_models.aspx
> 
> Specs of older TS110:
> http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/003/1/1/3115-new-holland-ts110.html


Neige's newer one is a T6020 I believe. I'll call my dealer monday to see if there is a big difference between T6070 and T6020 pricewise. 90k was with pricey options, like powercommand 50kph tranny 24 speed and suspended Terraglide front axle.

I do think it makes more sense to go with a used one, where max depreciation has already kicked-in.


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## NicholasMWhite

MogMan;1240064 said:


> Neige's newer one is a T6020 I believe. I'll call my dealer monday to see if there is a big difference between T6070 and T6020 pricewise. 90k was with pricey options, like powercommand 50kph tranny 24 speed and suspended Terraglide front axle.
> 
> I do think it makes more sense to go with a used one, where max depreciation has already kicked-in.


I don't think the 24 speed gear box is necessary for what we're looking to do. Niege may be able to comment with more experience. The 24 speed gearbox won't increase your top speed it will just give you more options for speed. That's all honky dory if you are a farmer and need specific speeds down the the tenth of a mph. But for blowing I don't see any benefit over the standard 8/8 or 12/12.

I also think you'd get by just fine with a T4050.

Niege, can you explain why you went with a T6020 instead of a T4050? There is only a 10 PTO HP difference. But a significant price difference. So what makes the T6020 so much better for this use?


----------



## OrganicsL&L

NLS1;1240051 said:


> This has been the best thread ever IMO. We are close to adding a 160 unit Town Home Association this next season and are planning to do it with a tractor and blower. This thread has been priceless. Thanks to all those who input and to the OP.
> 
> Blowerman, how is the PXPL holding up? That is one awesome looking rig by the way! Ever find it too big? The reason I ask it that the HOA's we are likely adding are tight and the garages have a common drive with garage doors facing each other.
> 
> Neige, over the years what does your experience tell you for reliability of tractor brands? Has one been better than others? And are there tractor add-ons or options that are so much more productive that you just couldn't live without it anymore? I need this new machine to be productive and easy to use for the long haul.
> 
> Thanks-
> Dan


I agree on the thread assessment! In fact, I need to be thinking grass and I am still more focused on the white stuff! Thanks to you all for some great info and encouragement!


----------



## MogMan

NicholasMWhite;1240081 said:


> I don't think the 24 speed gear box is necessary for what we're looking to do. Niege may be able to comment with more experience. The 24 speed gearbox won't increase your top speed it will just give you more options for speed. That's all honky dory if you are a farmer and need specific speeds down the the tenth of a mph. But for blowing I don't see any benefit over the standard 8/8 or 12/12.


I do have some acreage, where the tractor would be useful and a beneficial companion to the mog. I priced the 24 speed only to get an idea of the max price to pay when new. You are right, the 16 speed would be enough, but the 50kph option is a must for me though. Some of my account are spaced out a bit too much to my liking. I could also drop them for next season.


----------



## NicholasMWhite

MogMan;1240126 said:


> I do have some acreage, where the tractor would be useful and a beneficial companion to the mog. I priced the 24 speed only to get an idea of the max price to pay when new. You are right, the 16 speed would be enough, but the 50kph option is a must for me though. Some of my account are spaced out a bit too much to my liking. I could also drop them for next season.


Yeah to the best of my knowledge the 50KPH option is not available on the T4000 series. The top speed of that is 24MPH or just under 40KPH. The 50KPH sure would be nice in certain instances. I plan to have a very tight route such as niege's. There will be about 4 miles to and from the neighborhood I'll be doing business in. But that comes out to 10 minutes at the top speed and I can live with that.


----------



## PTSolutions

Ive been looking at the kubotas because there alot of low hour units (<1000) only 2-3yrs old within a close range to me. Plus there is a substantial kubota dealer presence by me. From what i understand they are not the fastest at around 20-24mph but i will operate 98% of the time on 25mph roads, with two short runs on a 35mph road. 

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread it is a prime example of how plowsite is an invaluable tool to snow removal


----------



## blowerman

NLS1;1240051
Blowerman said:


> The Pronovost brand is a very solid product. My PXPL has held up with no break downs in almost 3 winters. We did bend the blower housing on it though. I'm still trying to take some pictures of it to show guys no matter how well things are build, you still might need to modify them. With snowy weather taking a break this week, I'm taking it into a frame straightening shop middle of this week to have the bend taken out. When it's fixed we are going to add stronger gussets between the housing and impeller area.
> 
> As far as tight areas go, the TV tractors are very agile. The one problem you need to look at is clearance over the cab. Sometimes trees hang low and you don' t want somebody smashing tree limbs into the cab at 2:00 a.m. and breaking out windows. If the area for blowing snow is limited, the guys can just pull the snow out with the back drag blade and then blow somewhere else. I believe Neige has videos of inverted blowers where they pull snow and then turn on the blowers farther down the driveways.


----------



## MogMan

blowerman;1240226 said:


> If the area for blowing snow is limited, the guys can just pull the snow out with the back drag blade and then blow somewhere else.


I do that all the time, works great. You can pull a fair amount of snow before it spills out. some of my accounts are with parkings in an interior court, where I can't blow. I then drag the snow out and blow it on the front of the property. The blower can also be used to move piles of snow while reversing. The back of the blower is not straight but does the job. I am working on a permanent blade/flat surface for the back of thy blower to fix this issue. I have to go out tonight so I'll make a couple vids of those situations.


----------



## MogMan

Just uploaded some vids of me clearing some accounts with the Pronovost inverted blower.

Pushing back some snow piles with an inverted:






Stacking snow, to clear an alley, sloppy job:






BTW sorry for the choppy audio, seems that i messed with the sample rate when converting my vids. Ill reupload new vids to correct this


----------



## Triple L

NicholasMWhite;1240081 said:


> I don't think the 24 speed gear box is necessary for what we're looking to do. Niege may be able to comment with more experience. The 24 speed gearbox won't increase your top speed it will just give you more options for speed. That's all honky dory if you are a farmer and need specific speeds down the the tenth of a mph. But for blowing I don't see any benefit over the standard 8/8 or 12/12.
> 
> I also think you'd get by just fine with a T4050.
> 
> Niege, can you explain why you went with a T6020 instead of a T4050? There is only a 10 PTO HP difference. But a significant price difference. So what makes the T6020 so much better for this use?


In a deere the 16X16 only does 30K, u get that trans in the cheaper D series... The 24X24 gets you up to 40k so yes the # of gears does increase your overall speed...


----------



## NicholasMWhite

Triple L;1241028 said:


> In a deere the 16X16 only does 30K, u get that trans in the cheaper D series... The 24X24 gets you up to 40k so yes the # of gears does increase your overall speed...


I don't know exactly what model you're referring to but lets stick to apples to apples here. If you have the same series tractor with multiple options such as the Kubota M9540 which offers an 8/8 a 12/12 and a 24/24 they will all have the same top speed.

That's like saying my 6 speed V8 camaro is faster than my 5 speed V6 camaro. Thank God for that extra gear.

But I'll rephrase my comment: in MOST cases more gears does not mean a higher top speed. And that is the case with the New Holland tractors I was referring to while making the comment.


----------



## Triple L

NicholasMWhite;1241242 said:


> I don't know exactly what model you're referring to but lets stick to apples to apples here. If you have the same series tractor with multiple options such as the Kubota M9540 which offers an 8/8 a 12/12 and a 24/24 they will all have the same top speed.
> 
> That's like saying my 6 speed V8 camaro is faster than my 5 speed V6 camaro. Thank God for that extra gear.
> 
> But I'll rephrase my comment: in MOST cases more gears does not mean a higher top speed. And that is the case with the New Holland tractors I was referring to while making the comment.


I was refering to Deere and the extra gears do make a big difference in top speed...

Transmission

Std. Transmission; Forward/Reverse PowrQuad PLUS 16/16 (19 mph/ 30 kmh) w/ PowerTech Plus (4-valve) engine

Opt. Transmission; Forward/Reverse PowrQuad PLUS 16/16 (19 mph/ 30 kmh) w/ PowerTech E (2-valve); AutoQuad PLUS 24/24 (25 mph/ 40kmh) w/ PowerTech Plus (4-valve); IVT (25 mph/ 40 kmh) w/ PowerTech Plus (4-valve)


----------



## blowerman

As long as we are on the tractor discussion: What do guys feel is the most ergonomic layout in a tractor when it comes to running a inverted blower? 
Does anyone have any experience with the IVT in the newer Deere's ?


----------



## MogMan

I re-uploaded my last 2 vids since the sounds was awful on the first try

Pushing back snow piles with an inverted :






Blowing snow through a narrow alley


----------



## Neige

blowerman;1241435 said:


> As long as we are on the tractor discussion: What do guys feel is the most ergonomic layout in a tractor when it comes to running a inverted blower?
> Does anyone have any experience with the IVT in the newer Deere's ?


I have had no experiance but those that have cant stop talking about them.



MogMan;1242975 said:


> I re-uploaded my last 2 vids since the sounds was awful on the first try
> 
> Pushing back snow piles with an inverted :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blowing snow through a narrow alley


Nice MogMan keep em coming


----------



## Neige

Here is my latest one. At least there is a little more daylight.


----------



## NicholasMWhite

Neige;1243053 said:


> Here is my latest one. At least there is a little more daylight.


These videos are great. I can't thank you and Mogman enough for the inspiration. You two have kept this thread alive and informative.

I'm curious to know what advertising you did when you were at your quickest growth period. I know your dad started doing this LONG ago and you have worked your way into the business. But when you started to really grow fast how was it done? Were you getting more calls than you could handle so you just added tractors as necessary? Or did you decide one day that you were going to grow significantly and marketed to meet a specific goal?

I hope this isn't a stupid question.


----------



## Neige

NicholasMWhite;1243342 said:


> These videos are great. I can't thank you and Mogman enough for the inspiration. You two have kept this thread alive and informative.
> 
> I'm curious to know what advertising you did when you were at your quickest growth period. I know your dad started doing this LONG ago and you have worked your way into the business. But when you started to really grow fast how was it done? Were you getting more calls than you could handle so you just added tractors as necessary? Or did you decide one day that you were going to grow significantly and marketed to meet a specific goal?
> 
> I hope this isn't a stupid question.


I think these are great questions. Our driveway signs with our name and phone is proving to be the best way to attract new clients. Give your clients a quality service at a reasonable price and they decide they just don't want to shovel. Our biggest growth spurts have been buying up the competition we have done that 3 times now. ( By the way all these guys that have sold have come to us and asked if we were interested in buying them. Not one of them did we force them to get out, they were all just tired of the hours and the difficulties of running a snow company.The other was when a lowballer came into town and priced everything 50% less than us. We lost maybe 5 % of our clients but the guy picked up 300 new clients in my area. Well the first big storm we get and he is a no show. All these people decided they were not shoveling and we got around 225 of them. Called up our local tractor dealer, bought a new tractor and blower and away we went. If you are really interested I did a webinar for SIMA last spring that goes into great detail on how we run our snow company. I have been told its very informative. http://webinars.sima.org/session.php?id=3904
I believe anyone who is thinking of starting residential with a tractor / blower in a market where no one else has this system in place is going to do very well.


----------



## NicholasMWhite

Neige;1243430 said:


> I think these are great questions. Our driveway signs with our name and phone is proving to be the best way to attract new clients. Give your clients a quality service at a reasonable price and they decide they just don't want to shovel. Our biggest growth spurts have been buying up the competition we have done that 3 times now. ( By the way all these guys that have sold have come to us and asked if we were interested in buying them. Not one of them did we force them to get out, they were all just tired of the hours and the difficulties of running a snow company.The other was when a lowballer came into town and priced everything 50% less than us. We lost maybe 5 % of our clients but the guy picked up 300 new clients in my area. Well the first big storm we get and he is a no show. All these people decided they were not shoveling and we got around 225 of them. Called up our local tractor dealer, bought a new tractor and blower and away we went. If you are really interested I did a webinar for SIMA last spring that goes into great detail on how we run our snow company. I have been told its very informative. http://webinars.sima.org/session.php?id=3904
> I believe anyone who is thinking of starting residential with a tractor / blower in a market where no one else has this system in place is going to do very well.


I have to ask: how long is that webinar? Although I am VERY interested and hold your advice at a very high level, $100+ is a significant investment.


----------



## MogMan

dylan;1228852 said:


> Neige
> 
> Would you be able to post a few pictures of the cutting edges you have installed?
> 
> Do you counter sink your bolts so they don't rub on the driveways?
> 
> Thanks
> Dylan


It was greasing time yesterday so I took a couple pics of the cutting edge.

The uneven wear was caused by a poor adjustment of my 3-point hitch.

This wear is from around 58hours of snow removal, travelling time included. Can't tell how much of those 58 hours were spend with the edge on the ground, I calculate my hours from getting out of the house to coming back in.

The holes are countersunk but can't give out more details since I haven't taken the whole edge off yet.


----------



## blowerman

Mogman, I was able to run my blower for two seasons before the edge wore off. (don't have hours calculated) This November I had a local machine shop make me a new AR400 edge that they had to plasma cut the holes and use a drill to make the counter sunk part. Total cost $150. The new bolts were plow bolts from a local supplier. 
The uneven wear has been a problem for me as well. I've tried to make adjustments but still wears more on one side than the other.


----------



## MogMan

blowerman;1243702 said:


> Mogman, I was able to run my blower for two seasons before the edge wore off. (don't have hours calculated) This November I had a local machine shop make me a new AR400 edge that they had to plasma cut the holes and use a drill to make the counter sunk part. Total cost $150. The new bolts were plow bolts from a local supplier.
> The uneven wear has been a problem for me as well. I've tried to make adjustments but still wears more on one side than the other.


I hope that the holes are countersunk on the flip side too. This way I could flip it/ rorate it for next season. Since I got the 4" cutting edge, the holes are centered. This would potentially give me 4 years of use out of the OEM cutting edge, as quoted by the dealer. Neige uses Tivar, buys a 4'x8' sheet and cuts it. A sheet like that cost around 1300$. A good deal if you have a bunch of tractors. Personnaly, i dont do pavers so I will stick to steel.


----------



## Neige

NicholasMWhite;1243533 said:


> I have to ask: how long is that webinar? Although I am VERY interested and hold your advice at a very high level, $100+ is a significant investment.


Its around 1 hr long, pm me I might have one I can send you.

Here is a video of an operator vies using a Kubota M110 and Shoule inverted blower.


----------



## NicholasMWhite

Neige;1243931 said:


> Its around 1 hr long, pm me I might have one I can send you.
> 
> Here is a video of an operator vies using a Kubota M110 and Shoule inverted blower.


He said there was 2 feet of snow and he blew through it in one pass quite quickly. Was it really 2 feet of snow or was he just referencing the windrow left from the municipal plow?


----------



## Herm Witte

NicholasMWhite;1243937 said:


> He said there was 2 feet of snow and he blew through it in one pass quite quickly. Was it really 2 feet of snow or was he just referencing the windrow left from the municipal plow?


Nicholas,

The blower with tractor is awesome. I also did a drive with about 1.5 - 2 feet of snow in it and a heavy windrow from the street plows - the video does not lie. We use the Shoule on a JD 5083. Awesome equipment.


----------



## NicholasMWhite

Herm Witte;1243993 said:


> Nicholas,
> 
> The blower with tractor is awesome. I also did a drive with about 1.5 - 2 feet of snow in it and a heavy windrow from the street plows - the video does not lie. We use the Shoule on a JD 5083. Awesome equipment.


The speed is just amazing


----------



## Golfpro21

Hi Herm

Is that a JD 5083 E 69 PTO hp

one of the JD dealers in my area said that model would not hold upto snow blowing with a big blower as far as hydrolics

CAn you give any feedback


----------



## RAZOR

Paul

Are you high range the entire time while blowing the snow? It appears to me that you are. Are you feathering the clutch or do you find it it slow enough? I found on my M9000 that 1st gear in high range was too fast and jerky in driveways. The push button powershift is sweet.


----------



## Neige

RAZOR;1244136 said:


> Paul
> 
> Are you high range the entire time while blowing the snow? It appears to me that you are. Are you feathering the clutch or do you find it it slow enough? I found on my M9000 that 1st gear in high range was too fast and jerky in driveways. The push button powershift is sweet.


I was working in high 1, and not once did i feather the clutch. The SHoule blower just eats up the snow so quickly. We own 6 Kubota 9000s and are good with the speed. I must admit once you go to powershift its hard to go back.


----------



## Neige

Herm Witte;1243993 said:


> Nicholas,
> 
> The blower with tractor is awesome. I also did a drive with about 1.5 - 2 feet of snow in it and a heavy windrow from the street plows - the video does not lie. We use the Shoule on a JD 5083. Awesome equipment.


Herm I am just trilled that the tractor / blower is working out for you.


----------



## PTSolutions

Neige, is there any particular reasons you have decided to go with pronovost over the other two big names? just curious as ive pretty much decided on make/model of tractor now i need to decide on the blower.

i believe in pronovost b/c of your fleet, what do you have to say about shoule and normand? Image has given me a quote on a 92" normand w/ hydro backblade. I am also interested in the Shoule units, any input on those or the normands?


----------



## NicholasMWhite

ProTouchGrounds;1244172 said:


> Neige, is there any particular reasons you have decided to go with pronovost over the other two big names? just curious as ive pretty much decided on make/model of tractor now i need to decide on the blower.
> 
> i believe in pronovost b/c of your fleet, what do you have to say about shoule and normand? Image has given me a quote on a 92" normand w/ hydro backblade. I am also interested in the Shoule units, any input on those or the normands?


Paul was buying just Pronovost (the red blowers he has). But all the new one's he's been getting have been Shoule (the yellow blowers he has). If I recall he said the quality is very similar. I think he said the Shoule's have the drive chain in an oil bath so they don't have to lube the chain after each use. Maybe he can elaborate further on why he chose the Shoule's.


----------



## DaySpring Services

My Shoule is simply awesome so far. I have 55 hours on my tractor this season and most of them are probably actually blowing. I haven't had a single problem yet, however I wish Shoule had a better shoe (like pronovost or normand) and offered poly edges.

Has anyone had any problems with damaged to driveways due to the weight of the machines? I've noticed one lot has some areas that have sunk and the newer lot (3 years old) is cracking where the seams are from the paver. I wasn't sure if it's the weight of my machine (it does have cast-iron wheels) or if it was just because of how bad our winter was.

For the guys looking for poly cutting edges, I found this website http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.aspx?catid=868&parentcatid=795 I haven't ordered from them yet, but I'm going to try a 1 inch UHMW edge and copy the factory shoes in 1.5 Inch I just need to figure out how tall the shoes were new. I don't feel like ordering a pair just to use as a template.


----------



## Neige

ProTouchGrounds;1244172 said:


> Neige, is there any particular reasons you have decided to go with pronovost over the other two big names? just curious as ive pretty much decided on make/model of tractor now i need to decide on the blower.
> 
> i believe in pronovost b/c of your fleet, what do you have to say about shoule and normand? Image has given me a quote on a 92" normand w/ hydro backblade. I am also interested in the Shoule units, any input on those or the normands?


Back in the days when we started, Pronovost bought out Bervac the original maker of the blower. We just stuck with Pronovost because we were always satisfied with the quality. I know lots of guys that use Normand and are very satisfied with them. I went with SHoule because I liked some of the chages they made, and the fact they make incredible pushers. There was some issue with the SHoule, but they have since fixed it. We modified our SHoule so that we could attach a poly blade under the blower sitting flat like all our other blowers. We find that the SHoule really eats up the snow well and leaves very little trails when blowing large amounts of snow. We also finds it leaves less snow on the street, thus having to drag it down the street less far. 



NicholasMWhite;1244386 said:


> Paul was buying just Pronovost (the red blowers he has). But all the new one's he's been getting have been Shoule (the yellow blowers he has). If I recall he said the quality is very similar. I think he said the Shoule's have the drive chain in an oil bath so they don't have to lube the chain after each use. Maybe he can elaborate further on why he chose the Shoule's.


That is one feature we have really liked.



DaySpring Services;1244436 said:


> My Shoule is simply awesome so far. I have 55 hours on my tractor this season and most of them are probably actually blowing. I haven't had a single problem yet, however I wish Shoule had a better shoe (like pronovost or normand) and offered poly edges.
> 
> Has anyone had any problems with damaged to driveways due to the weight of the machines? I've noticed one lot has some areas that have sunk and the newer lot (3 years old) is cracking where the seams are from the paver. I wasn't sure if it's the weight of my machine (it does have cast-iron wheels) or if it was just because of how bad our winter was.
> 
> For the guys looking for poly cutting edges, I found this website http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.aspx?catid=868&parentcatid=795 I haven't ordered from them yet, but I'm going to try a 1 inch UHMW edge and copy the factory shoes in 1.5 Inch I just need to figure out how tall the shoes were new. I don't feel like ordering a pair just to use as a template.


DaySpring, I am sure its not the weight of the blower. The heaving and sinking is caused by the weather and frost in the ground. I have been just so busy hauling and clearing snow I have had no time to properly measure a shoe for you. I will do my best for this weekend.


----------



## DaySpring Services

Thanks Paul, My thought was the frost as well. There's alot of heaving in my area this year, however this is my first season with the tractor and it left me a little scared. I appreciate you taking time to measure the shoe as well, no hurry. We have 50 degree weather right now.


----------



## blowerman

DaySpring Services;1244436 said:


> Has anyone had any problems with damaged to driveways due to the weight of the machines? I've noticed one lot has some areas that have sunk and the newer lot (3 years old) is cracking where the seams are from the paver. I wasn't sure if it's the weight of my machine (it does have cast-iron wheels) or if it was just because of how bad our winter was.


I don't know the weight of everyone's blower tractor set ups, but if you would compare them to a bigger skid loader or one ton truck with plow and salter, it's probably not that much different.
One of my bigger condo projects had a bright idea that my skid loader and blower was causing damage to driveways because of weight and the metal cutting edge.
The year of comparison I had a Bobcat S185 with 66" blower that weighted in under 7K lbs.
All of my trucks scaled at the local pit were much more than that.
As for the Bi-directional tractor, it's a heavier unit. WIth blower, tractor, & wheel weights it's close to 20k lbs.
The plastic edges have been a never ending issue. On skid loader blowers, regardless of the type of plastic/poly material I've tried, none has held up very long. Changing out a edge wouldn't be a problem, but if you are getting continual snow in the course of a week, there isn't much time to change a worn edge, cut off bolts that have ground in half or do any other "new edge" fabrication. So, skid blowers have gone back to metal edges.

The PXPL has a AR400 edge on the bottom of the blower that lasts about two seasons on average. (and for mogman, the holes are only sunk on one side.) I had the poly edge put on the pull back blade incase I need to drag a driveway that can't have metal on it. It's held up quite well, that would be three seasons. I'm replacing it for next year.


----------



## DaySpring Services

The M100 with standard wheels weighs 8,863lbs, the blower weighs 1,960lbs, I'm not sure how much the cast iron wheels weigh. That put me at 10,823lbs with standard wheels.

My truck with plow, and a loaded salter probably weighs somewhere between 9-9500lbs.


----------



## Neige

Some people will try and blame you for everything. Lets face it we have had some serious cold spells. I think the frost line is 3 feet deep in many areas. So I explain to the client the the asphalt is sitting on a 3 foot solid piece of ice. There is no way I will ever be able to mike that heave or sink. Now that 3 foot of ice, that will play havoc with your parking lots. Add some thaw, and this water has no where to go. I am seeing potholes early this year that could swallow a smart car.


----------



## NLS1

blowerman;1240226 said:


> The Pronovost brand is a very solid product. My PXPL has held up with no break downs in almost 3 winters. We did bend the blower housing on it though. I'm still trying to take some pictures of it to show guys no matter how well things are build, you still might need to modify them. With snowy weather taking a break this week, I'm taking it into a frame straightening shop middle of this week to have the bend taken out. When it's fixed we are going to add stronger gussets between the housing and impeller area.
> 
> As far as tight areas go, the TV tractors are very agile. The one problem you need to look at is clearance over the cab. Sometimes trees hang low and you don' t want somebody smashing tree limbs into the cab at 2:00 a.m. and breaking out windows. If the area for blowing snow is limited, the guys can just pull the snow out with the back drag blade and then blow somewhere else. I believe Neige has videos of inverted blowers where they pull snow and then turn on the blowers farther down the driveways.


Hey Blowerman thanks for the info, hadn't thought much about overhead clearance, good tip. Glad to hear the blower is doing well for you. This is likely the blower I will get regardless of the tractor brand. For our long term goals it would be ideal. Too bad about the bent housing, but that is sometimes unavoidable. What is the life expectancy of the pxpl? Is it the 15 years that I hear others talking about for the regular inverted blowers? 
Assuming very tight routing, what do you figure is the maximum number of drives that could be done in a 4-5 hour cycle with the TV and pxpl? Standard two to three car wide with 20-40 foot lengths are our norm. Thanks-Dan


----------



## DaySpring Services

For the Shoule users, I've heard of a couple guys shearing the 4 bolts of on the pto at the blower. In the nice weather we have been having I pulled the bolts out (which are grade 5) and noticed very slight bending of the bolts. I replaced them with stronger grade 8 bolts. Do you the stronger bolts will be strong enough or should I plan on getting it welded over the summer?


----------



## Herm Witte

DaySpring Services;1245574 said:


> For the Shoule users, I've heard of a couple guys shearing the 4 bolts of on the pto at the blower. In the nice weather we have been having I pulled the bolts out (which are grade 5) and noticed very slight bending of the bolts. I replaced them with stronger grade 8 bolts. Do you the stronger bolts will be strong enough or should I plan on getting it welded over the summer?


Shoule has a fix for that issue. FYI, we broke grade 8 bolts on ours as well as the original grade 5 bolts. After reassembly we chose to tack-weld weld the area together as a short term fix which I would recommend that you do as well and then have your dealer get the redesigned part or get it from Shoule directly. In our case it is warranty. The redesign takes care of the issue you describe. You'll be pleased.


----------



## Neige

Herm Witte;1245583 said:


> Shoule has a fix for that issue. FYI, we broke grade 8 bolts on ours as well as the original grade 5 bolts. After reassembly we chose to tack-weld weld the area together as a short term fix which I would recommend that you do as well and then have your dealer get the redesigned part or get it from Shoule directly. In our case it is warranty. The redesign takes care of the issue you describe. You'll be pleased.


We just got ours last week, and what an improvement. The bolts go all the way through just like every other manufacturer. That spline you bolt on I would be surprised if it ever will break, its solid. Very happy with the upgrade. Thumbs Up


----------



## DaySpring Services

Are they replacing them for free or do I have to pay? Either way I'll eventually upgrade.


----------



## Neige

NLS1;1245450 said:


> Hey Blowerman thanks for the info, hadn't thought much about overhead clearance, good tip. Glad to hear the blower is doing well for you. This is likely the blower I will get regardless of the tractor brand. For our long term goals it would be ideal. Too bad about the bent housing, but that is sometimes unavoidable. What is the life expectancy of the pxpl? Is it the 15 years that I hear others talking about for the regular inverted blowers?
> Assuming very tight routing, what do you figure is the maximum number of drives that could be done in a 4-5 hour cycle with the TV and pxpl? Standard two to three car wide with 20-40 foot lengths are our norm. Thanks-Dan


Dan I just want to comment on the longevity of a blower. I would rather say 7 years, and then you need to do some serious changes to the blower. Remember if you are doing around 150 drives with 20 outings and 3 passes per outing that's 9000 driveways a year. In 7 years that's 63 thousand drives. Now that may be extreme, but it gives you an idea of the abuse that the blower will take. Remember this is taken from our way of working.


----------



## Herm Witte

DaySpring Services;1245613 said:


> Are they replacing them for free or do I have to pay? Either way I'll eventually upgrade.


I would make an assumption here but that question is best asked of and answered by your dealer.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Neige, 

Based on those numbers, the 3 passes/storm, I have a question. So a route takes 5hrs, are the tractors going out for 15 hrs per storm to get those 3 passes done?


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## blowerman

Bobcat blower picked up a 6-8" rock. Made it past the auger and slammed into the impeller hard enough to cause a big crack.
This is a example why blowers are quick, but when you pick up hidden objects things break.
A plow and you'd just make a monster pile, with the rock buried in it.
The never ending pressure of snow has also caused the blower shoot to separate from base. We will make a new one in summer, for now it has a bad "in the field" weld job.


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## blowerman

Support arm of PXPL blower. Sorry, bad picture but it hopefully gives you the idea.
The bend arm should be straight!


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## OrganicsL&L

Impressive work blowerman!


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## Neige

DaySpring Services;1245613 said:


> Are they replacing them for free or do I have to pay? Either way I'll eventually upgrade.


DaySpring I had not noticed your question. It most definately will be covered by SHoule. Go see your dealer, and if you have any problems let me know.


----------



## NicholasMWhite

Neige;1245706 said:


> DaySpring I had not noticed your question. It most definately will be covered by SHoule. Go see your dealer, and if you have any problems let me know.


Paul,

I was wondering if you could answer two questions for me.

First: Do you use weights on your tractors at all? Be it weights on the front or wheel weights?

Second: It is my understanding that you recently purchased a newer New Holland T6020. I was wondering why did you decide on the T6020 instead of the T4050 being that they have similar HP levels but a $10,000+ price difference? I know there are other difference, but specifically for the use of snow blowing what are the difference that made you decide on the T6020 despite the cost difference?


----------



## BDEMOTT

This thread is amazing and probably up there with the most informative ones on this site.

Has anyone had any experience with a meteor inverted blower? I went to the local kubota dealer and he brought out the paper work on it and i was shocked at how low the price was considering a shoule or pronovost run near the 10k mark. Im talking that it was around 4k less cheeper than those. Kinda scares me but trying to keep this project within budget is going to be mush easier with this blower. Will it hold up for atleast idk 4 seasons? I am a big beleiver in you get what you pay for just wondering what anyones opinion is on the matter. I am in the process of puttin a plan together next year for residentials and im considering using a tractor blower concept to maximize efficientcy. 

also Neige this question is for you, Do your m9000's have hyd. shuttle or not, and should i make this a necesity when purchasing a tractor?


----------



## gottabediesel

Great thread. Like to add a few thought as we started a couple of years ago and tried to save money by using lighter blowers, used blowers and even rebuilding our own blowers. We tried 6, 7 and 8 foot pronovost, roberge, meteor, smytth, normand and bobcat blowers even the original reversable prototype Avalanche from Anderson. Spend the extra or you may just end up with an expensive pull plow for a storm, especially if you have no backups or you aren't't driving the rig yourself. Also, think about matching the blower to the tractor. I ran a 5030 kubota with a 1600 lb that was was too heavy and we also ran a lighter blower on a 6000 series John Deere and had to weld, bolt or repair something every storm cause it would get torn off. Meteor blowers are fine for compact tractors (had one) but if the one you mentioned is $4000 less than the others it won't stand up behind a M series kubota. Also the tolerances are much tighter on the better blowers meaning much less clogging in wet snow, infact the pronovost and normands we have will blow water like its snow.


----------



## IMAGE

gottabediesel;1249232 said:


> Great thread. Like to add a few thought as we started a couple of years ago and tried to save money by using lighter blowers, used blowers and even rebuilding our own blowers. We tried 6, 7 and 8 foot pronovost, roberge, meteor, smytth, normand and bobcat blowers even the original reversable prototype Avalanche from Anderson. Spend the extra or you may just end up with an expensive pull plow for a storm, especially if you have no backups or you aren't't driving the rig yourself. Also, think about matching the blower to the tractor. I ran a 5030 kubota with a 1600 lb that was was too heavy and we also ran a lighter blower on a 6000 series John Deere and had to weld, bolt or repair something every storm cause it would get torn off. Meteor blowers are fine for compact tractors (had one) but if the one you mentioned is $4000 less than the others it won't stand up behind a M series kubota. Also the tolerances are much tighter on the better blowers meaning much less clogging in wet snow, *infact the pronovost and normands we have will blow water like its snow*.


Very Cool! And great first post, welcome to the site! :waving:

I'll speak for everyone: I'd love to see some pics of your equipment.


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## DaySpring Services

BDEMOTT I would definitely go with a shuttle shift tractor. It will save alot of time plus wear and tear on the clutch.

As for the Meteor snow blowers, They look to be built alot cheaper that Shoule, Normand, or provonost blowers. A quick look at the specs tell me they weigh half the amount of the big 3. That alone tells me enough.


----------



## gottabediesel

Thanks steve,

I'm between machines since the toolcat but heres the latest project.

Willie


----------



## NicholasMWhite

gottabediesel;1250197 said:


> Thanks steve,
> 
> I'm between machines since the toolcat but heres the latest project.
> 
> Willie


There's one way to get into this cheap. I like it. How much do you have into it total? If you don't mind me askIng.


----------



## gottabediesel

less than the $25,000 they go for, but I've just about replaced and repaired everything as it was beaten like a rented mule. The Ford 9030s are the same, but they are in the 30-35000 range and then the TVs go from 50,000 and up. Its got 100 hp at the PTO and hydrostatic which is just about perfect for snow except the ground speed. This is a concept machine that we're trying some ideas out on. definitely not a first line piece yet, but I got a smokin loud radio in it.


----------



## thatlittleguy?

gottabediesel;1250295 said:


> less than the $25,000 they go for, but I've just about replaced and repaired everything as it was beaten like a rented mule. The Ford 9030s are the same, but they are in the 30-35000 range and then the TVs go from 50,000 and up. Its got 100 hp at the PTO and hydrostatic which is just about perfect for snow except the ground speed. This is a concept machine that we're trying some ideas out on. definitely not a first line piece yet, but I got a smokin loud radio in it.


How do you like the versatile? I have a line on one with low (relatively) hours that hasn't been beaten too badly. I was thinking that machine with a pxpl on it would be the cats meow for a tight route of residentials.


----------



## IMAGE

Thanks for the pics Willie, looks like a fun project! Do you service all residentials with that setup? (and with the previous TC?)


----------



## bi-directional

My first post so I hope I do it right. We use mostly Versatile 256/276, 9030 and TV 140's for our work and find they work great. Hey gottabediesel just wondering where in you are in Canada. If you have any questions about your Versatile let me know and I will try to help, I always get calls from people with questions about them as we have over 20 years experience with them. I try to load some pics of our equipment when I figure out how to resize my pics.


----------



## blowerman

thatlittleguy?;1250446 said:


> How do you like the versatile? I have a line on one with low (relatively) hours that hasn't been beaten too badly. I was thinking that machine with a pxpl on it would be the cats meow for a tight route of residentials.


The versatile tractors are a high maintenance item. They work great, but lots of little issues with older ones. Another issue is the low production of units, not every dealer is familiar with how to fix them of even have parts.


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## gottabediesel

thatlittleguy?

How do you like the versatile? I have a line on one with low (relatively) hours that hasn't been beaten too badly. I was thinking that machine with a pxpl on it would be the cats meow for a tight route of residentials. 


The older 150,160 and 256 versatiles had some issues but the 276 had pretty well everything worked out, so much that the ford 9030 was the same tractor with a different paint job for 10 years until new holland bought them and made the TV series. Can't say I agree someones point with high maintenance, but time will tell. Interesting point about dealers though, I bought it because I was tired of begging someone to fix a machine. The versatiles and fords can be wrenched on by anyone with mechanical aptitude and there are no hardware upgrades that will leave your tractor sitting in a yard during a storm.

Having said that if I were starting again, I would still get a newer tractor with a solid blower after checking the local dealer's ability to answer and show up to repair your tractor. 

we are trying it in hopes it can do commercial and residential. I had set the toolcat up for tight one pull residentials but we don't have enough to make it pay off through an entire route with doubles as well.

I keep reading about the pxpl. Does anyone have one that finds the pricetag provides that much more productivity?


----------



## bi-directional

Here's some pics of a few pieces of our snow equipment that we do residential and some small commercial with.


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## gottabediesel

bi-directional;1250971 said:


> Here's some pics of a few pieces of our snow equipment that we do residential and some small commercial with.


Love it, I'm in ottawa, where in Ontario are you?


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## OrganicsL&L

Ok, just stopped by the local orange dealer and here's what I was quoted:

M9540hoc 24-1

$52.5k w/tax. Doesn't include any specials or rebates because I won't be buying until fall. Another option they gave me is to lease the machine for 6 mos. for $6k, and then that will go towards a down payment on a purchase.

What do you all think of the pricing and the tractor. A little smaller than neige's m100's, so just getting all of my ducks in a row now before I get too crazy busy with spring work.


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## blowerman

Organic, 
The price seems reasonable. I'm not up on all of the pricing for Kubota's, as my preference is the New Holland or Deere. Currently I'm pricing out a Deere 6430 and New Holland to be matched with a Pronovost. 
The leasing is fine, gives a down payment and $1k per month shouldn't be that hard to pay.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Thanks B-man. I will be buying the blower separate, and leasing the tractor. The sale guy came out and said that it will be less, but he can't say how much because all of the promotions will be different when I'm ready. Just a little worried whether that machine is large enough. Anybody with Kubota knowledge want to chime in?


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## DaySpring Services

I paid right around 60g's for my M100 with loader. I wasn't looking for a loader but it was the about the same price with or without it. I financed the machine for 60 months a 0% through Kubota. The blower was $9200 if I remember right.


----------



## bi-directional

Hey gottabediesel. We located west of Georgian Bay near Orillia. We've being doing driveways with tractors for over 30 years and got our first Versatile in1988 or 89 and still have it. We are finding some parts that were made just for Versatile are getting hard to get but just the other day someone told me you can get parts from the new Versatile dealers instead of New Holland and they are cheaper. When all our tractors are out there is 10 bi-directionals 4 regular tractors, 2 with pull type blowers and 2 with regular blowers. We also plow roads with 2 tandem trucks and have 1 pick-up as a service truck with a blade on it.


----------



## MogMan

*Greasing the shaft*

A bit OT but I think it might be relevant:

I had asked a couple guys how to lube the PTO driveline, the part that extend and retract (tube in tube). So instead of PMing back everybody, I decided to post it here. I took it out and found out the reason for the hole in the protection sleave. When you split the PTO drive shaft in 2, there is a plastic collar around the female part that has 3 zerks for greasing. So, there you go.

Also, I cant seem to reconnect the driveline to the blower. It's a ring that you pull back but I cant get past the 3 locking bearing, they won't let me go further.

What am I doing wrong ?


----------



## bi-directional

MogMan. We had one that we couldn't get off and we found that the holes for the 3 bearings had gotten a burr on them and wouldn't let the bearings release from the locking groove. We also quit using grease to lube the slide as we found it to get thick and would pull on the locks to hard and damage the locks. We have switched to Fluid Film. Mabe a different winter grease would have worked too.


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## blowerman

Mog Man, WIth the connection problem, have you tried cussing & swearing? Works every time for me. If not, a big hammer.
But really, do you have a burr?


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## MogMan

bi-directional;1251227 said:


> MogMan. We had one that we couldn't get off and we found that the holes for the 3 bearings had gotten a burr on them and wouldn't let the bearings release from the locking groove. We also quit using grease to lube the slide as we found it to get thick and would pull on the locks to hard and damage the locks. We have switched to Fluid Film. Mabe a different winter grease would have worked too.


I'll spray some PB Blaster on those 3 bearing to see. I tried to push them in with a screwdriver, with the locking ring pulled back, but they wont sink-in flush. I prayed white lithium grease, good to -40, before finding the plastic zerk ring. I thought about fluid film but guessed it was too thin.

Should i try to ram it in somehow ?


----------



## MogMan

blowerman;1251229 said:


> Mog Man, WIth the connection problem, have you tried cussing & swearing? Works every time for me. If not, a big hammer.
> But really, do you have a burr?


I did all that for the good part of an hour. I even pushed (kicked) a dog.

The bearing wont move enough with the ring pulled back. Could I have 3 burrs ?


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## bi-directional

MogMan. You could have 3 burrs we had to take the sliding collar off to get ours to come off the shaft. To get the sliding collar off there is a spring clip on the end that you have to take off then the collar and the spring inside the collar can come off. The bearings should fall out then and if they don't that is likely where the problem is. You could hammer it on but you might not get it off again. One burr could stop it. PS don't loose the bearings.


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## bi-directional

I forgot to show a pic of my newest tractor.


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## RAZOR

Bi-directional

Is that your shop on the north side of Hwy 12?


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## bi-directional

Razor. No that's another guy. When he started in the bussiness he came to se my dad about equipment to use and dad told him to use bi-directionals for blowing, so his first tractor was a 9030 and he's grown alot since then. At one point he had 45 pieces of snow equipment but is down abit in numbers now. We live aboout 10 miles from him.


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## RAZOR

There was a Versatile that was for sale on the hwy between Stayner and Wasaga all last summer. Is that the one that ended up being your latest project?


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## blowerman

bi-guy, any other details on the "boomer" tractor and blower? 
Do you road that machine very far?


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## bi-directional

Razor. My dad looked at it but we didn't really need another.


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## bi-directional

Blowerman. We road it to our work but it's only about 8 miles from our house to the farthest driveway. It has the new IVT trans not a hydro so it's alittle faster on the road- 18mph compared to 14mph with the hydro in the old Boomers. We could use a better blower the one we have doesn't feed the fan fast enough. The only problem we have with the boomer is on big snow falls it has trouble getting over the windrow from the plow at the road while it's on the way out of the driveway. It always works with another tractor and it knocks down the windrow for him. We have a 70hp tractor with a pull type blower and it doesn't have any trouble.


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## gottabediesel

Hi Bi directional,

I have some questions, could you PM (private message? think thats what it is called) with a contact phone number?

Willie


----------



## bi-directional

gottabediesel;1251912 said:


> Hi Bi directional,
> 
> I have some questions, could you PM (private message? think thats what it is called) with a contact phone number?
> 
> Willie


I think you need 10 posts before we can PM, so you need a couple more posts then we can PM.


----------



## MogMan

bi-directional;1251291 said:


> MogMan. You could have 3 burrs we had to take the sliding collar off to get ours to come off the shaft. To get the sliding collar off there is a spring clip on the end that you have to take off then the collar and the spring inside the collar can come off. The bearings should fall out then and if they don't that is likely where the problem is. You could hammer it on but you might not get it off again. One burr could stop it. PS don't loose the bearings.


For the record, I was able to reconnect the PTO driveline.

The problem was a code 18, I wasn't pulling back on the right locking ring. I needed to pull on the ring at the extremity (metal) not the painted one (black/yellow). Both can be pulled back but only one works.

So there you go, I'm with stoopid


----------



## blowerman

MogMan;1252048 said:


> For the record, I was able to reconnect the PTO driveline.
> 
> The problem was a code 18, I wasn't pulling back on the right locking ring. I needed to pull on the ring at the extremity (metal) not the painted one (black/yellow). Both can be pulled back but only one works.
> 
> So there you go, I'm with stoopid


How long did you bang on the driveshaft before you figured it out? (hour or so)
Did you take it off to grease it?
Is the Pronovost holding up well?
If you had to buy another inverted blower, which one would it be?


----------



## MogMan

blowerman;1252058 said:


> How long did you bang on the driveshaft before you figured it out? (hour or so)
> Did you take it off to grease it?
> Is the Pronovost holding up well?
> If you had to buy another inverted blower, which one would it be?


I thankfully didn't bang on it, but I was ready !

I took it off completely and took it apart to grease it because it it felt a bit slow going up.

I have nothing to say against the Pronovost, it's awesome ! I bent and bumped countless forged steel fence, chewed through hockey sticks and a garbage bag full of diaper, it's still holding up like a champ.

The only thing that I would and will modify is the back blade or lack of it in my case.

I will fab-up in the coming week a straight blade at the back, not hydraulic nor spring activated. It will be fixed and an inch higher that the bottom of the blower. WHen I back up to a fence, it leaves a nasty ski jump looking snow mound. Don't like it.

The shoule looks sharp but I dont know if it's better, probably the same. The only difference I see is the drivechain in an oil bath. Mechanically better and must be quieter too.

I would like to know the price difference with the Shoule. A thousand dollar more would be fair.

If Shoule users could post pics of their auger/drum combo, that would be great.

I could match pictures of my pronovost, so we could really compare.


----------



## DaySpring Services




----------



## RAZOR

Mogman

Did you make those sheilds (guards) that sit on top of your blower or did they come with the blower? It looks like they would prevent chunks of ice from flying up and hitting the back window. I have never had the rear glass break but I could see it happening.


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## gottabediesel

Bi Directional,

it looks like you are using a cylinder on the top of your 3 pt. on the bi directionals. do you have to adjust the angle that often?


----------



## MogMan

RAZOR;1252175 said:


> Mogman
> 
> Did you make those sheilds (guards) that sit on top of your blower or did they come with the blower? It looks like they would prevent chunks of ice from flying up and hitting the back window. I have never had the rear glass break but I could see it happening.


The shields are OEM. Dont know if they are there to prevent stuff from leaving or entering this area.


----------



## NLS1

Neige;1245626 said:


> Dan I just want to comment on the longevity of a blower. I would rather say 7 years, and then you need to do some serious changes to the blower. Remember if you are doing around 150 drives with 20 outings and 3 passes per outing that's 9000 driveways a year. In 7 years that's 63 thousand drives. Now that may be extreme, but it gives you an idea of the abuse that the blower will take. Remember this is taken from our way of working.


Thanks Paul, great info. That is a heck of a lot of driveways! Would you say it is past the point of return after those seven years, or with a few thousand bucks it would be good for another 7?


----------



## bi-directional

gottabediesel;1252222 said:


> Bi Directional,
> 
> it looks like you are using a cylinder on the top of your 3 pt. on the bi directionals. do you have to adjust the angle that often?


We run a hydraulic top link on all our regular blowers. We change them for going from paved or bricked driveways to gravel. Some of the gravel drives never freeze so we have to ajust for them. I would say that 20% of our drives are gravel.


----------



## blowerman

Day spring, nice picture. How do you like the Shoule blower?


----------



## DaySpring Services

Love the blower. I'm very impressed with how well it works. The only thing I wish they would do is make a better set of shoes and make it easier to put poly edges on.


----------



## blowerman

First picture is of the temporary brace we put in between the snow this past week. I think we're going to wait until spring to do a final repair.
Second picture is one of my skidloader blowers that hooked a curb and peeled the cutting edge back like a old beer can top. It should be angled forward just in case you didn't know how it needed to look.


----------



## blowerman

Since we are talking about skid shoes, my have wore down fairly quick this year. Not the biggest deal, we'll just have the bottoms re-welded. From the looks of it, my cutting edge is going to get replaced after this season.


----------



## NLS1

blowerman;1252394 said:


> Since we are talking about skid shoes, my have wore down fairly quick this year. Not the biggest deal, we'll just have the bottoms re-welded. From the looks of it, my cutting edge is going to get replaced after this season.


How many seasons do you get out of one cutting edge and skid shoes? Do you have them made at a local shop or do you buy from Pronovost when it is time for new ones?


----------



## PTSolutions

dayspring, on the shoule, i like how the distance from the auger to ground is small, on my front mount hydro its about 4" and I end up tilting the the blower forward to collect more snow at the end of the pass. did you end up going with a backblade and if so what kinds? could you snap a pic of it?

right now the backblade and price are the factors that will play in most in my decision between pronovost vs. normand vs. shoule as they are all quality blowers from what ive heard.


----------



## DaySpring Services

The only disadvantage to that small gap between the auger is you really cant get a poly cutting edge on. The factory steel edge is only 3/8" thick. I'm going to try to squeeze either a 7/8 or 1" poly edge on. Right now I don't have a back blade but may end up picking one up over the summer.


----------



## sp6x6

Daysprings, What skid where you running the SBX240 ON?


----------



## DaySpring Services

I had a 2005 Bobcat S220 highflo. Sold it in the fall to buy the tractor.


----------



## StuveCorp

Is there ever a problem blowing the snow on say a fluffy 1" accumulation?


----------



## Herm Witte

StuveCorp;1259738 said:


> Is there ever a problem blowing the snow on say a fluffy 1" accumulation?


Nope. Works great 1" - 16" - our experience this winter.


----------



## StuveCorp

Herm Witte;1260283 said:


> Nope. Works great 1" - 16" - our experience this winter.


When there is a lower accumulation do you just pull the snow out before turning on the blower?

I have read about every thread on the tractor/blower setups and really like the idea, I have always been involved doing bigger commercial stuff but am liking the 'Canadian Way'.


----------



## MogMan

StuveCorp;1260499 said:


> When there is a lower accumulation do you just pull the snow out before turning on the blower?
> 
> I have read about every thread on the tractor/blower setups and really like the idea, I have always been involved doing bigger commercial stuff but am liking the 'Canadian Way'.


Personnaly, I do both. I use the blower as a box scraper 75% of the time.

On the small accumulation, like you said, I drag it around until it starts spilling out then blow it. When the blower is filled up, you can even blow-out the content with the truck not moving. Once I reach the designated spot on the property, I unload there. My stuff may not apply to everybody because my contracts are downtown, not many 2 cars driveways on my run.


----------



## bellcon

I'm not looking to start a brand war, but I'd like to know.

Paul, since you probably have more experience than anyone with these two brands, if money was not an issue which tractor do you like better, Kubota or New Holland? Or is it a toss up? Your opinion, your operator's opinon, your mechanic's opinion?

I run a 55 horse tractor with an 84" Blizzard 3ph blower for residential accounts but I'm considering upgrading. The up side of the smaller tractor is operating costs are very low, a little over one gallon per hours, but it's only three years old so time will tell how it will hold up.
Thanks, Scott


----------



## StuveCorp

Okay, this thread has a lot of good info but what are the 'cons' of doing it this way? To me the money doesn't seem that bad compared to what we spend for summer equipment, are the blowers touchy(maintenance, clogs)? Are there used blowers out there not used up but cheaper to start with? I noticed Neige mentioned that the SHoule ran in oil so there would be less maintenance than the others? The only part that seems hard is getting the route tight enough and selling this concept to the market here. 

I have always looked down on residential but bringing a commercial level or efficiency to residential may be something. We have many homes around the lake and while not as tight as how Neige and others have it there is quite a bit(2,000-3,000 homes, many clustered in 20-30 together). We get around 50-60" per season with a bunch of 1-2" events but this year had a 20" and around 10". How long of a route can be pulled off?


----------



## MogMan

StuveCorp;1261271 said:


> I noticed Neige mentioned that the SHoule ran in oil so there would be less maintenance than the others?


Here`s a couple pics of the drive chain on the pronovost. It's a bit exposed to the elements but haven't had any problems with it. Maintennance is spraying it with chain oil and checking the tensionner's spring length. I laced mine with FluidFilm.

Pics shows said chain from under and from the side. I also included pictures of the install location for their optional rear blade.

I am brainstorming a design for a bolted, fixed height rear blade, maybe 2 inches higher that the bottom of the blower. 
I'm thinking "L" shape bracket made out of half-inch thick, 3" wide steel plate (same thickness as would-be blade). The actual rear blade would be 6" wide and 92" long.


----------



## blowerman

Nice Pictures Mog, 
Oil bath might be better, but like you, we just oil the chain after every use or two. Not much work.
After reading this thread, some of the bigger questions (most basic questions have been answered) would be tractor selection, blower selection, and reasons why!
I have New Holland, Kubota & Deere close by, so in my case: which one should I go with?
I'm currently running Pronovost, but I'm interested in the SHoule blower. I don't seem to have a dealer close by. My New Holland dealer became a Pronovost dealer for me to import the product, however they don't stock parts. 
These are questions I have.


----------



## PTSolutions

the oil bath and back blade seem to make me lean towards the shoule, i havent heard any arguments towards normand, most likely b/c no one runs them, not b/c they are a bad blower.


i am leaning towards kubota for several reasons, dealer presence, abundance of affordable used units with low hours and proven track record.


----------



## MogMan

blowerman;1262623 said:


> I have New Holland, Kubota & Deere close by, so in my case: which one should I go with?


Neige will chime-in any minute now !

Im leaning toward NH, since Neige doesnt seem to have any problems with it. I have to say, that the only tractors I sat in, beside the one I got now, are NH. Also I like blue

I don't know why but I like the SHoule blower. It's a solid company, their Artic Blaster extendable blade are everywhere around here.


----------



## StuveCorp

Thanks MogMan. I do think a back scrapping blade would be very helpful.

I would go for Case or NH for a tractor as either has dealer I can deal with. As for blowers it seems the Pronovost or SHoule may be more popular? Wouldn't mind hearing more about the Normand though.

I'm going to have to pony up to get Neige's SIMA dvd.


----------



## IMAGE

StuveCorp;1262974 said:


> Thanks MogMan. I do think a back scrapping blade would be very helpful.
> 
> I would go for Case or NH for a tractor as either has dealer I can deal with. As for blowers it seems the Pronovost or SHoule may be more popular? Wouldn't mind hearing more about the Normand though.
> 
> I'm going to have to pony up to get Neige's SIMA dvd.


What would you like to know about the Normand? I'm a dealer, and I'm aware there is not a lot of online media available for them. I'm working with them to get me more media including pics and video's so I can share with everyone. I am currently having a new website built that will showcase the different models of Normand Inverted Blowers, with pricing and option prices, I should have that up for everyone around the end of the month.

fyi, the pricing on a Normand through me for plowsite members is almost $2k cheaper then a comparable SHoule.


----------



## Neige

StuveCorp;1261271 said:


> Okay, this thread has a lot of good info but what are the 'cons' of doing it this way? To me the money doesn't seem that bad compared to what we spend for summer equipment, are the blowers touchy(maintenance, clogs)? Are there used blowers out there not used up but cheaper to start with? I noticed Neige mentioned that the SHoule ran in oil so there would be less maintenance than the others? The only part that seems hard is getting the route tight enough and selling this concept to the market here.
> 
> The blowers are pretty much low maintenance, similar to a pickup plow. Yes they will clog, depending on the types of snow. You can blast through huge amounts of snow no problem. Its when the snow is very wet, there is a learning curve on how not to block the chute. Yes the SHoule runs in an oil bath, so cuts down on some maintenance, but really its not more than two minutes to oil the chain. The SHoule also has a special chain binder, so you never have to adjust the tension so another thing to not have to think about.
> As for selling this to a market, it pretty much sells itself. If you are in a market where people already have their drives plowed. You have a huge potential market that will want blowing over plowing. Once they see how clean and that there are not huge piles of pushed snow its an easy sell. Property damage becomes almost a non issue another great plus. I believe its the old idea of build it and they will come.
> 
> I have always looked down on residential but bringing a commercial level or efficiency to residential may be something. We have many homes around the lake and while not as tight as how Neige and others have it there is quite a bit(2,000-3,000 homes, many clustered in 20-30 together). We get around 50-60" per season with a bunch of 1-2" events but this year had a 20" and around 10". How long of a route can be pulled off?


In my market our routes ar 4 hours max. If you are in a market where there is very little competition you could strech it out to six hours. Really depends on what you sell to the client.



blowerman;1262623 said:


> Nice Pictures Mog,
> Oil bath might be better, but like you, we just oil the chain after every use or two. Not much work.
> After reading this thread, some of the bigger questions (most basic questions have been answered) would be tractor selection, blower selection, and reasons why!
> I have New Holland, Kubota & Deere close by, so in my case: which one should I go with?
> I'm currently running Pronovost, but I'm interested in the SHoule blower. I don't seem to have a dealer close by. My New Holland dealer became a Pronovost dealer for me to import the product, however they don't stock parts.
> These are questions I have.


Blower man its going to be hard to find dealers wanting to hold parts. Once they start selling lots more then they will hold some but again not all. In all honesty there are very few parts you need to keep in stock. I would always have a spare PTO shaft, spline that bolts to the blower fan, chain links if your chain should break, a spare hydraulic hose, and a couple of bearings. To be honest that only leaves the gear box which is rare if it ever goes and the shaft that goes from the gear box to the chain drive. I am giving an example of the inverted blower, I have no idea about the Xpro.



ProTouchGrounds;1262628 said:


> the oil bath and back blade seem to make me lean towards the shoule, i havent heard any arguments towards normand, most likely b/c no one runs them, not b/c they are a bad blower.
> i am leaning towards kubota for several reasons, dealer presence, abundance of affordable used units with low hours and proven track record.


Sorry for the delay I have been very busy digging out of lots of snow this past week. I am a terriable salesman as you will soon see with this post. Yes I sell Pronovost and SHoule and think they are both excellent products. As for the Normand I have never used one but I know they fall into the same catagory as the Pronovost and SHoule. I know many contractors that use them with no issues. There are thousands of them in use all over Quebec and Ontario ( there you go Steve a plug for your Normands.) What I do know know from experience that we have done well with the Pronovosts. I started using the SHoule when they came out last year because I love the quality of their plows. Well the blower is as well built as their plows. I know Herm had an issue with the bolts on his spline shearing off, and the fix that SHoule came up with is awesome. I have not bought a Pronovost in the last 3 years so I have no idea if they have upgraded anything in their blowers, maybe I should Dominique a call and find out. I do know that the SHoule can blow huge amounts of snow, and the operators I have using them have yet to clog up the chute. Maybe Herm can chime in, if his operator who was new to this kind of operation ever blocked his chute. ( My guess would be yes since most guys do.) So there you go my two cents on what I know. Now I have to go out and finish hauling snow before the next dump of 4-6 inches tonight and tomorrow.


----------



## MogMan

I did manage to clog up the chute once but it was my fault, I had the little door on the chute on and it was slushy snow and I dropped the rpm while hitting a 30" pile. Definetly my fault, not the pronovost


----------



## Herm Witte

*Shoule - chute clogging ?*

For your information we clogged the chute three times this season.

I have been very impressed with the Shoule and blowing snow vs. plowing (residential) snow. I have serviced residential drives personally for 40 years and have seen a lot of innovation in the snow plowing industry and blowers are awesome. About two weeks ago we had a 9" snowfall that was about a twelve hour plowing event for most all of our routes, all except the snow blower. In a 1 - 2" snowfall our inversed blower completes its' route in about five hours, it completed the route in the same amount of time (five hours) during that 9" snowfall.

There's my chime.


----------



## NicholasMWhite

I have a question for those of you who have just one tractor/blower setup.

What kind of back up plan do you have in place? Do you have a spare tractor, or access to a tractor should your main one break? What if the blower breaks and it is something that can't be fixed for a few days?


----------



## Herm Witte

NicholasMWhite;1263391 said:


> I have a question for those of you who have just one tractor/blower setup.
> 
> What kind of back up plan do you have in place? Do you have a spare tractor, or access to a tractor should your main one break? What if the blower breaks and it is something that can't be fixed for a few days?


We operate one inversed blower on one residential route. Should the blower break we have trucks and other pieces of equipment to throw at that route. You might ask the same question of a one truck operation.


----------



## DaySpring Services

Has anyone replaced the spline on their Shoule themselves? The dealer is getting me the part and wants to know know if I want to put it on. I dont know what is involved and if I can do it myself.

I've plugged my blower 2 this season. The first time I broke a shear pin, as result it plugged up the blower. The 2nd time I was clearing a lot with cars on both sides, Dragging the snow about 100 feet using the blower like a box. When I turned the pto on I didn't give it enough rpms to clear the blower out. The snow was extremely wet though. Both times I shoved a stick down rotated it around a couple times and was back in business within minutes.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

How'd you break it?


----------



## DaySpring Services

It didn't break on me, but others have had them break. There's an updated spline out with bolts that go right through. Some people were having problems with the bolts shearing off so Houle came out with an updated design.


----------



## Herm Witte

*Shoule fan replacement*



DaySpring Services;1263482 said:


> Has anyone replaced the spline on their Shoule themselves? The dealer is getting me the part and wants to know know if I want to put it on. I dont know what is involved and if I can do it myself.
> 
> I've plugged my blower 2 this season. The first time I broke a shear pin, as result it plugged up the blower. The 2nd time I was clearing a lot with cars on both sides, Dragging the snow about 100 feet using the blower like a box. When I turned the pto on I didn't give it enough rpms to clear the blower out. The snow was extremely wet though. Both times I shoved a stick down rotated it around a couple times and was back in business within minutes.


It can be done, the auger needs to be unbolted and taken out of the way. The rest comes apart very easily. I had it apart a bit when my bolts were shearing. Just a suggestion - have the dealer replace the spline (it comes attached to a new blower impeller) if something goes wrong no questions are asked. If you replace it and something goes wrong there is always the possibility that you will be held accountable. for what it's worth. It is a warranty issue.


----------



## blowerman

Since the question about snow blowing in wet snow comes up often, I thought I'd make a short video this morning. The rain in the forecast was actually 4+ inches of heavy wet snow. 
I happen to be ahead of schedule so I stopped by a condo project and back dragged the snow into the street with the Deere 344J, we then blew it into the yards.
We also had no problems blowing driveways where the 4 inch snow had melted into a 1-2" gooey, sticky mess. Hope this helps! 
RPM's were in the 1800-1900 range.
Speed of tractor could have been increased, but this was the last job today and we didn't want to risk breaking a shear bolt.


----------



## NicholasMWhite

Herm Witte;1263394 said:


> We operate one inversed blower on one residential route. Should the blower break we have trucks and other pieces of equipment to throw at that route. You might ask the same question of a one truck operation.


Yeah I plan to use my plow truck as a back up as well and was just curious. I know you could ask the same about the truck, but I find it easier to have a spare truck and plow since you can find a used set up for under $5K to use as a back up. Where a used tractor and blower(if you can even find a used blower) would run you a minimum of $15K or so. I was just wondering because I would like to get away from having a snow plow at all.


----------



## Neige

In Quebec you can pick up used blowers around $2500 and up. They make for great spares, and sometimes for used parts also. Here are photos of the SHoule upgraded parts.


----------



## DaySpring Services

Wow, Looks nice! I think I'll have the dealer install it since it's covered under warranty. No reason to be aggravated when can be for free!


----------



## StuveCorp

IMAGE;1263122 said:


> What would you like to know about the Normand? I'm a dealer, and I'm aware there is not a lot of online media available for them. I'm working with them to get me more media including pics and video's so I can share with everyone. I am currently having a new website built that will showcase the different models of Normand Inverted Blowers, with pricing and option prices, I should have that up for everyone around the end of the month.
> 
> fyi, the pricing on a Normand through me for plowsite members is almost $2k cheaper then a comparable SHoule.


Anything.  It seems Pronovost and SHoule are more popular on here but am curious to hear more on the Normand. That cheaper price doesn't hurt either...


----------



## IMAGE

Thanks Paul for the kind words. 

Blowerman, I'm out of town until sunday doing my National Guard commitment right now. I will make a few calls today and see what info I can get asap from them.


----------



## DaySpring Services

I have to say I think the tractor/blower setup is really starting to take off. I see alot of interest on this site. My dealer has also had a few people call me about my setup. I think it's going to become a popular of snow removal. I have to thank Paul for giving me the idea after watching his videos. I think I jumped on the bandwagon early enough to be on the sucessful side for once, kinda like buying successful stocks when they're new!


----------



## NicholasMWhite

I agree, I'm excited to offer a unique service, unlike plowing and mowing. I think it'll be nice to have an actual competitive advantage over all other contractors in the snow removal industry.

For those of you who started using an inverted blower, or any blower for that matter, to service residential customers this year:

Have you noticed a lot of interest coming from potential customers? 
Have you signed anyone up mid-way through the season? 
What type of marketing did you do? 
Are you charging seasonally or "per push?"


----------



## MogMan

Filmed this morning.

Not too relevant to this thread but at least, there's a TV145 in there.

There was another TV145 coming with a 2-stage Pronovost at the back to blow it all in dump trucks but I had other things to do than wait for it.


----------



## Jelinek61

Nice video. those wacker loaders don't really help to much in the video


----------



## MogMan

Jelinek61;1265652 said:


> Nice video. those wacker loaders don't really help to much in the video


They do look lightweight. They are there to push the snow off the sidewalk and onto the street.

Those Wacker are slower but more versatile than Bombardier's SW48.


----------



## IMAGE

Hey guys, just finished up the new site, with online pricing for Normand Inverted Snowblowers. Plowsite members get a discount off advertised prices 

Link: * Normand Inverted Snow Blowers Online Prices
*

I'll be adding more Normand products to the site shortly. If your interested in any Normand products shoot me an PM or give me a call at 218-205-7198.
-Thanks, Steve


----------



## TKLAWN

Thats pretty cool that they will match it to the color of the machine.


----------



## PTSolutions

I like the site image! more informative than the crazy canuck sites!


----------



## OrganicsL&L

NicholasMWhite;1265270 said:


> I agree, I'm excited to offer a unique service, unlike plowing and mowing. I think it'll be nice to have an actual competitive advantage over all other contractors in the snow removal industry.
> 
> For those of you who started using an inverted blower, or any blower for that matter, to service residential customers this year:
> 
> Have you noticed a lot of interest coming from potential customers?
> Have you signed anyone up mid-way through the season?
> What type of marketing did you do?
> Are you charging seasonally or "per push?"


Anybody have any response the these questions....ones that I would love to know as well!


----------



## IMAGE

ProTouchGrounds;1272307 said:


> I like the site image! more informative than the crazy canuck sites!


Thank You! wesport

Can I put your name on a blower yet?


----------



## EGLC

MogMan...I hope those aren't your employees....that was one of the worst plowing techniques I've seen


----------



## StuveCorp

I wish I could have tried out a tractor blower on the snow this week. It was soft ground with a couple inches of slush and then 8-10" of snow on top. It was horrible to plow off. If the blower can work in those conditions it would be awesome.


----------



## Triple L

MogMan;1265598 said:


> Filmed this morning.
> 
> Not too relevant to this thread but at least, there's a TV145 in there.
> 
> There was another TV145 coming with a 2-stage Pronovost at the back to blow it all in dump trucks but I had other things to do than wait for it.


whats the deal with those wacker loaders? they're missing the actual loader? never seen that before?


----------



## IMAGE

Doing a little youtube surfing I ran across this vid you guys might like. Its a Normand inverted blower moving some deep snow and going through all the functions.

sorry in advance for the music!


----------



## MogMan

Triple L;1272940 said:


> whats the deal with those wacker loaders? they're missing the actual loader? never seen that before?


Those "loader" are replacing Bombardier's SW48 around here as side-walk clearing rigs. Slower but more modern. I've seen some with nice 2-axles salter trailer too.

BTW, that vid is not of my outfit, it's Jean-Paul Trahan Inc. They have a huge fleet.


----------



## StuveCorp

IMAGE;1273038 said:


> Doing a little youtube surfing I ran across this vid you guys might like. Its a Normand inverted blower moving some deep snow and going through all the functions.
> 
> sorry in advance for the music!


But the music made it beautiful. 

You can really adjust where the snow goes. That had to be the biggest inverted blower?


----------



## IMAGE

StuveCorp;1273045 said:


> But the music made it beautiful.
> 
> You can really adjust where the snow goes. That had to be the biggest inverted blower?


Your are right it was the 102" wide Normand N102-310 INV since that tractor is 101" wide and has around 150+ hp.


----------



## IMAGE

MogMan;1273039 said:


> Those "loader" are replacing Bombardier's SW48 around here as side-walk clearing rigs. Slower but more modern. I've seen some with nice 2-axles salter trailer too.
> 
> BTW, that vid is not of my outfit, it's Jean-Paul Trahan Inc. They have a huge fleet.


Those WL-30's look to have great visiblity, but they must be 40-50k each for a sidewalk rig.


----------



## James D

EGLC;1272784 said:


> MogMan...I hope those aren't your employees....that was one of the worst plowing techniques I've seen


Re the video link; yeah, MogMan, if I had a TV145, I don't think I would put a blade on it, and let anyone drive it like that! It's a good, but expensive, tractor for a blower, but maybe not so good a machine for a blade.

What are the Wackers going to be when they growup? _ ... kidding!_

James


----------



## MogMan

IMAGE;1273049 said:


> Those WL-30's look to have great visiblity, but they must be 40-50k each for a sidewalk rig.


If they can be used for 40 years, like the SW-48s, it's a good investment !

Time will tell I guess


----------



## MogMan

James D;1277460 said:


> Re the video link; yeah, MogMan, if I had a TV145, I don't think I would put a blade on it, and let anyone drive it like that! It's a good, but expensive, tractor for a blower, but maybe not so good a machine for a blade.
> 
> What are the Wackers going to be when they growup? _ ... kidding!_
> 
> James


Those rigs were not mine...

Those guys run a municipal contract worth a couple million $.

It was the end of a shift, I guess those Waker were trying to contribute.

That TV145 was a bit underweight to move a pile like this one.


----------



## James D

MogMan;1277607 said:


> Those rigs were not mine...
> 
> Those guys run a municipal contract worth a couple million $.
> 
> It was the end of a shift, I guess those Waker were trying to contribute.
> 
> That TV145 was a bit underweight to move a pile like this one.


Just kidding! They _do_ work for the sidewalks.

My only concern about the TV is that that's pushing on a draughting hitch, maybe not a problem. They must have something more than the AG quick connect 3-point hitch? the TV's here are pushing blowers, and just doing that breaks the the lower arms on the stock AG style hitch, after a while.


----------



## MogMan

I feel like I should post this for people looking to buy a Pronovost blower.

I found something that suks big time, their paint job or the paint that they used. It's parchemin paper thin.

Paint started peeling-off on parts of the blower that were not even touched by snow. It shows even on vertical parts, where water accumulation is not possible.

Their paint is sub-par. I was expecting more quality work for something worth 9K$.

Hopefully the SHoule are better made, because my next one won't be a Pronovost.

BTW, the white film in the pics is unbuffed wax, that I applied in april for protection.


----------



## leon

*Snow Caster paint woes*

Hello Mogman,

I would let both your Pronovost Dealer and Peter Pronovost know about this. As it is clearly a case of poor preparation or no preparation of the steel before after assembly and before painting.

The projections on the snow caster being the bolts and washers would have the least amount of paint as they are not flat and paint is thinned then sprayed rather than brushed on.

If you know someone who uses dry ice for sand blasting it would take little time to fix this and you will have a clean surface with no black beauty sand to worry about getting stuck in the washer space or around the bolt head.

I wonder if Paul Vanderzon is having the same issues with his pull behind blower fleet?

I would as Paul about this as well and see what his thoughs are as he is a Pronovost reseller too.

I would say that asking for some paint free of charge from Peter Pronovost to fix it is in order here.

I am surprized that they dont hand out some spray paint for touching up their snow casters is not done as it is a very high end product near Bielhack quality in my opinion.

Edit: Mog man, these bolts appear to be grade three bolts and the washer's may be the same grade as well which also points to galvanic corrosion of dissimular metals in your case too

Leon


----------



## MogMan

Those cosmetic defects don't affect the performance of the plow but it suks to see this appear after only 4 months of usage/ownership.

Ill give them a call to see what I can get as compensation.

Maybe a new set of blade.


----------



## StuveCorp

This is kinda dumb question but don't think I saw an answer on any of the tractor/blower threads. Can you blow snow that is piled(spread out but low) or windrowed say at the end of a run?


----------



## IMAGE

StuveCorp;1301928 said:


> This is kinda dumb question but don't think I saw an answer on any of the tractor/blower threads. Can you blow snow that is piled(spread out but low) or windrowed say at the end of a run?


Paul posted a vid of him blowing a pile. It was probally five feet tall, and he just backed right through it, with the blower up, and kinda "smeared off" the pile with the blower, then he just blew it away like nothing. I would think if you windrowed a nice line, you could run right down it and blow it no problem either.


----------



## MogMan

StuveCorp;1301928 said:


> This is kinda dumb question but don't think I saw an answer on any of the tractor/blower threads. Can you blow snow that is piled(spread out but low) or windrowed say at the end of a run?


You can definetly get rid of the snow row-crop style.

Diff height would be the limiting factor, since you would be driving through the snow pile.


----------



## StuveCorp

IMAGE;1301931 said:


> Paul posted a vid of him blowing a pile. It was probally five feet tall, and he just backed right through it, with the blower up, and kinda "smeared off" the pile with the blower, then he just blew it away like nothing. I would think if you windrowed a nice line, you could run right down it and blow it no problem either.





MogMan;1301932 said:


> You can definetly get rid of the snow row-crop style.
> 
> Diff height would be the limiting factor, since you would be driving through the snow pile.


I must have missed that video of Paul's. MogMan's term of row-crop is what I was kinda thinking of. The reason I'm thinking of this is I could save massive time(in theory) so the client can hit their budget and yet we get the work. At one site the loader or even tractor could push down and then go through and blow it away instead of handling the snow multiple times.

Does the blown snow ever hurt sodded areas? I would imagine if there is some salt residue there may be issues?


----------



## excav8ter

OK everyone, I'm kinda excited right now..... just got done with our annual HOA meeting for our development .. We have 7 different associations under our "master" association. I lost the plowing last year to another local company who was cheaper, but did not have the equipment to deal with the challenging conditions in our development. Tonight, all of the representatives of the various HOA's asked if I would be willing to take on the plowing again. They have also, finally seen the value of blowing more than plowing. Here is what I have to plow in our development. There is about 2-3 miles of roads, 45 driveways and 2 parking lots covering 2 acres, as well as a turn around drive at the clubhouse which is about 500 feet around with 16 parking spaces. 
I am wondering what size blower would be most efficient for me? I plan to plow the roads to about 2-3 feet from the edge and then blow the rest into the fields and front yards, and then blow all the driveways. I know a toolcat is not the BEST option, but it is one I am considering. Mainly because I can put a small salt spreader in it if i need to, as well as a back plow if i wanted to, plus I can use one in the summer as well. If i go the tractor/pto blower route what would be a good size? If i get approval, my budget would be about $25,000-$30,000.


----------



## Neige

excav8ter;1315424 said:


> OK everyone, I'm kinda excited right now..... just got done with our annual HOA meeting for our development .. We have 7 different associations under our "master" association. I lost the plowing last year to another local company who was cheaper, but did not have the equipment to deal with the challenging conditions in our development. Tonight, all of the representatives of the various HOA's asked if I would be willing to take on the plowing again. They have also, finally seen the value of blowing more than plowing. Here is what I have to plow in our development. There is about 2-3 miles of roads, 45 driveways and 2 parking lots covering 2 acres, as well as a turn around drive at the clubhouse which is about 500 feet around with 16 parking spaces.
> I am wondering what size blower would be most efficient for me? I plan to plow the roads to about 2-3 feet from the edge and then blow the rest into the fields and front yards, and then blow all the driveways. I know a toolcat is not the BEST option, but it is one I am considering. Mainly because I can put a small salt spreader in it if i need to, as well as a back plow if i wanted to, plus I can use one in the summer as well. If i go the tractor/pto blower route what would be a good size? If i get approval, my budget would be about $25,000-$30,000.


Thats great news you getting this one back. I would suggest you can even blow the roads, so all you will need is the tractor. The reason I say tractor is it will be much faster when blowing the roads. If you want to send me the address by pm or email I can check out the site on google earth and will be able to give you other pointers once I see the site.


----------



## Neige

MogMan;1294609 said:


> Those cosmetic defects don't affect the performance of the plow but it suks to see this appear after only 4 months of usage/ownership.
> 
> Ill give them a call to see what I can get as compensation.
> 
> Maybe a new set of blade.


Hey Mogman this has happen with to us with all the different brands out there. I think it happens because the nuts were not tight enough causing vibration and the paint to come off. Vibration might be the wrong word, its more like the metal bends back and forth because its not tight enough. You are absolutely right that it has no effect at all except for cosmetics. Every year we are touching up our blowers, its a pain but its just routine now.



StuveCorp;1301928 said:


> This is kinda dumb question but don't think I saw an answer on any of the tractor/blower threads. Can you blow snow that is piled(spread out but low) or windrowed say at the end of a run?


Yes you can, but it becomes a much slower process and is much harder on the tractor. You try not to have it higher than the wheel base. If it is you start having problems with traction. The best scenario would be a bidirectional blower if you want to do lots of it.



StuveCorp;1301935 said:


> I must have missed that video of Paul's. MogMan's term of row-crop is what I was kinda thinking of. The reason I'm thinking of this is I could save massive time(in theory) so the client can hit their budget and yet we get the work. At one site the loader or even tractor could push down and then go through and blow it away instead of handling the snow multiple times.
> 
> Here is the vid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does the blown snow ever hurt sodded areas? I would imagine if there is some salt residue there may be issues?


It can, but it seems because you are blowing the snow its getting spread over a larger area so when it melts maybe the salt becomes more diluted. It has never been an issue at my clients, but the again our muni puts down very little salt.


----------



## mnlefty

excav8ter;1315424 said:


> OK everyone, I'm kinda excited right now..... just got done with our annual HOA meeting for our development .. We have 7 different associations under our "master" association. I lost the plowing last year to another local company who was cheaper, but did not have the equipment to deal with the challenging conditions in our development. Tonight, all of the representatives of the various HOA's asked if I would be willing to take on the plowing again. They have also, finally seen the value of blowing more than plowing. Here is what I have to plow in our development. There is about 2-3 miles of roads, 45 driveways and 2 parking lots covering 2 acres, as well as a turn around drive at the clubhouse which is about 500 feet around with 16 parking spaces.
> I am wondering what size blower would be most efficient for me? I plan to plow the roads to about 2-3 feet from the edge and then blow the rest into the fields and front yards, and then blow all the driveways.* I know a toolcat is not the BEST option, but it is one I am considering.* Mainly because I can put a small salt spreader in it if i need to, as well as a back plow if i wanted to, plus I can use one in the summer as well. If i go the tractor/pto blower route what would be a good size? If i get approval, my budget would be about $25,000-$30,000.


I know you have to consider all factors, but in this situation I would steer you away from the Toolcat... and if that turns out to be the option Hi-flow is a MUST.

I used a std flow toolcat with a 72" blower last year for about 30 residentials... it worked out great for the most part, but the biggest drawback for me was the drastic difference in time between light snows and 5-6"+. My route was somewhat spread out, maybe 12-15 miles start to finish, probably about an hour of total "drive time". On light snows I could finish in 3.5-4 hours. In the heavy snows, once we got to 4-5" or plowing with the blizzard the 2 times we got 18", those 3.5-4 hr routes became almost a full 8 hours. The toolcat with standard blower just can't clear the deep stuff fast enough for me... the light snows I was mad because we could have handled double our route, but we would have been screwed on the deep stuff. I will be using a tractor and blower this year, and hopefully be able to keep our route times a little more consistent, as plowing with the storm we'll never see more than 6" on the ground at 1 time. I'm a little mad at myself for wasting a year on the toolcat and not going to the tractor/blower right away, but the toolcat was partly a $$ decision as I got a great deal on a winter lease last year.

In the situation you described, the toolcat I used last year would absolutely not work for you to blow the wind rows off the street... It would be painfully slow.

Take Neige up on his offer to help... he won't steer your wrong.


----------



## Herm Witte

If you are looking for consistency in response time the inverted snowblower is the way to go. With a two inch snow our route was five hours long, nine inch snow - six hours. This is how we wish to grow our business.


----------



## MogMan

*inverted blower rear blade*

I've been informed that a non-hydraulic rear blade for the Pronovost P920-IV exists.

Anybody out there ever seen one ? Pics somewhere

I was quoted 1300$ for the hydrau one and 1000$ for the "chain" one.

Probably gonna have to fab myself a fix blade


----------



## excav8ter

Herm Witte;1315616 said:


> If you are looking for consistency in response time the inverted snowblower is the way to go. With a two inch snow our route was five hours long, nine inch snow - six hours. This is how we wish to grow our business.


Herm, what tractor/blower are you using? I hear you know Dave Timmerman @ Filmore equipment.


----------



## Herm Witte

We are using a JD 5083 with the Shoule inverted blower. While I don't know Dave personally I have met him and am a client of Fillmore.


excav8ter;1315908 said:


> Herm, what tractor/blower are you using? I hear you know Dave Timmerman @ Filmore equipment.


----------



## RLM

Herm how does that set up work for you. We ordered 2 5101's with the SHoule inverteds for this year any tips would be appreciated


----------



## Herm Witte

RLM;1315947 said:


> Herm how does that set up work for you. We ordered 2 5101's with the SHoule inverteds for this year any tips would be appreciated


Oops. I'm ebarrassed. We use our New Holland 4050 with the Shoule and it worked very well. The JD 5083 has the 8611 Blizzard with an ebling back blade. PM your phone number and I'll gladly give you a buzz and mention a few things.


----------



## mnlefty

*Time to bring the blowing thread up again...*

So after much debate, I've decided to run the Toolcat/blower combo again, mostly a financial decision coupled with the comfort of familiarity. I'll be going from about 30 drives last year to approx 45-50 this year. Assuming we don't get 86+" again this year (nearly double the historical average) it shouldn't be a problem.

While I shied away from spending the $$ on a different tractor/inverted blower setup this year, I am looking to spend a few $$ (<$2000) to add to the setup this year, but I keep oscillating back and forth between two options and I'd like to hear the opinions from others...

My biggest issue with the front-facing blower is blowing up to and pushing snow up to front facing garage doors, and a few tight corners with nowhere to blow snow that need to be drug/shoveled out to a serviceable area. Two ways to fix it...

1) A receiver mount back blade on the Toolcat. 
Pros- plug and play, no design/fabrication needed. Good capacity.
Cons- most are wider than the 72" blower I use so they will likely drag on banks, my stakes, and will not allow me to blow quite as tight to retaining walls and such. Have to turn around in some tight spots, and adds overall length to a tight little machine.

2) Have somebody design/fab a pull back blade for the snowblower, a poor man's pxpl.
Pros- no turning around in the drive, better visability/control.
Cons- design/fabrication, potentially a little less capacity than a pull plow on the back, less added resale value compared to a plug and play back plow.

I know there's a member here, Dylan, who has done #2 to both a blower on a toolcat, and a rear facing pto blower, and I know Black Irish runs a couple Toolcat/Blowers with a back blade. Anyone care to chime in?


----------



## blowerman

mnlfty, this is why toolcats don't work good for driveways... with a skid, we stop short of the garage and on our third pass turn in front of the door in a scooping motion and blow all the snow away. but even i stopped using skids and run larger tractors with blowers. (including the pxpl)


----------



## mnlefty

blowerman;1331808 said:


> mnlfty, this is why toolcats don't work good for driveways... with a skid, we stop short of the garage and on our third pass turn in front of the door in a scooping motion and blow all the snow away. but even i stopped using skids and run larger tractors with blowers. (including the pxpl)


Oh trust me, I'm well aware of the toolcat's limitations , but again, it makes financial sense for this year, and I'm comfortable with the machine. I do also like the visibility compared to a skid, and having the bed to carry shovels, salt, another small snowblower at times, and being able to have one of my shovelers jump in with me to run here or there at times. On a 3-car garage the 4-wheel steer actually allows me to do just as you mentioned, turn and make a swipe across the front. But there are a handful of 2-car and some that don't have an open side to blow towards on a garage swipe... and I'd love to eliminate that wasted motion all together.

On the other hand I also have a handful of side garages where I'm much better off blowing/pushing the snow to the backyard, rather than having to pull it to very limited space in the front if I were running an inverted...

I was out sizing up what it would take for the poor man's pxpl this afternoon, and I'm strongly leaning that way. If I had welding equipment and ability I'd probably already be started on it. When I plow my route in my mind, imagining the back drag functional, it really solves most of the tricky spots that have been bothering me. If I had the back drag the only thing more I could want out of my blower would be HP and width... Although I sensed a little fear and trepidation about the size of a tractor from a few customers I talked to about it this summer.

There is no _one_ machine that is perfect for _every_ drive out there... I'm just trying to get my machine a little closer to it, for the drives I do.


----------



## Triple L

I have a 60" inverted blower FOR SALE
only 1 season old!
$3250 takes it


----------



## excav8ter

Has anyone here ever used a John Deere 3720 with an inverted blower? I know its a smaller tractor, but for smaller sites and drives would it perform well?


----------



## MRHORSEPOWER1

excav8ter;1338999 said:


> Has anyone here ever used a John Deere 3720 with an inverted blower? I know its a smaller tractor, but for smaller sites and drives would it perform well?


That would be Triple L... Check out his videos on Youtube.


----------



## excav8ter

MRHORSEPOWER1;1339064 said:


> That would be Triple L... Check out his videos on Youtube.


Thank you. I searched Triple on YouTube and came up empty.


----------



## Triple L

You should try searching again... I just did and 2 of my video's popped up, then you can click on my channel and see the rest.....


----------



## TatraFan

How about the Unimog Solution??? 

You could have a truck with Blower driving at road speeds of 56mph between accounts???? With a blower or snow cutter up front and a sander in the back? It is just a thought.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

The object is not to have to travel so far that you need to go 56mph between accounts!


----------



## TatraFan

OrganicsL&L;1339296 said:


> The object is not to have to travel so far that you need to go 56mph between accounts!


Isn't time saved between accounts money made for the corporation?


----------



## MogMan

TatraFan;1339274 said:


> How about the Unimog Solution???
> 
> You could have a truck with Blower driving at road speeds of 56mph between accounts???? With a blower or snow cutter up front and a sander in the back? It is just a thought.


54mph is more like it.


----------



## MogMan

OrganicsL&L;1339296 said:


> The object is not to have to travel so far that you need to go 56mph between accounts!


I second that.

Route planning is key


----------



## TatraFan

MogMan;1339353 said:


> 54mph is more like it.


The modern U500 truck does 56mph or 90Kph is what I was quoting.


----------



## MogMan

TatraFan;1339385 said:


> The modern U500 truck does 56mph or 90Kph is what I was quoting.


My comment was obviously an attempt at humor, making fun of the top speed of my own truck. My unimog tops out at 54mph with or without the blower at the back.


----------



## TatraFan

MogMan;1339567 said:


> My comment was obviously an attempt at humor, making fun of the top speed of my own truck. My unimog tops out at 54mph with or without the blower at the back.


Yeah well the older ones are slower; that is unless you have the fast axles one them. See look at that plus -- you 54mph no matter your load... What type of Mog do you have it looks a 1000-1300model is it bigger?


----------



## OrganicsL&L

TatraFan;1339324 said:


> Isn't time saved between accounts money made for the corporation?


Yes, but you'd be better off with your accounts close enough so you don't have to travel that fast to save time between accounts.


----------



## MogMan

TatraFan;1339703 said:


> Yeah well the older ones are slower; that is unless you have the fast axles one them. See look at that plus -- you 54mph no matter your load... What type of Mog do you have it looks a 1000-1300model is it bigger?


u1600 with fast axles, speed-limited mechanically to match tire rating.

I wouldnt want to go faster with my mule anyway. Unladen, the rear is lighter than the front by a ton. Mine is an ag one, short wheel base. it's easy to loose the rear at speed.


----------



## PTSolutions

Hello guys, I want to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread and all the great advice and thoughts that have been shared. Its been a helpful way to wade through all the decisions that need to be made to push your business off in the right direction. Ive said it time and again, plowsite is a wonderful resource for our industry and I hope to contribute as much as I can on here as many like Neige, Blowerman, JDDave, Image and others have done.

As you can see in the picture thread we have received our tractor for this season and are awaiting our shoule blower to come in soon, thanks to Steve & Paul. You guys can see the pictures and info here:
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=127734


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Hey Pro Touch....have you been out yet this year? Just wondering how the set up worked? How has the tractor held up so far


----------



## badgerfan

I forgot who posted it, but you know the line: "faster with a blower"! How true....[/QUOTE]

I'm sure that this is already on a thread but since it seems like you know allot about these blowers I was wondering if it is possible to use them on residential driveways out in the suburbs. We are somewhat dense but not enough where I think we can legally drive a tractor to and from each driveway we service. The average account is about 1/4 mile apart from each other out in the subdivisions. We are presently using the standard pickup and plow set ups which work well for the sideturn driveways which are 60% of our customers which we can push straight through. But the other 40% are straight ones up to the garage which require back dragging and some circular drives.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated


----------



## NicholasMWhite

badgerfan;1365925 said:


> I forgot who posted it, but you know the line: "faster with a blower"! How true....
> 
> I'm sure that this is already on a thread but since it seems like you know allot about these blowers I was wondering if it is possible to use them on residential driveways out in the suburbs. We are somewhat dense but not enough where I think we can legally drive a tractor to and from each driveway we service. The average account is about 1/4 mile apart from each other out in the subdivisions. We are presently using the standard pickup and plow set ups which work well for the sideturn driveways which are 60% of our customers which we can push straight through. But the other 40% are straight ones up to the garage which require back dragging and some circular drives.
> 
> Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated


In Wisconsin as long as you have a slow moving vehicle emblem (orange triangle) you can legal drive a tractor down any road except a freeway.


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## DGODGR

Nobody has posted this question (even though this is post #500!) so maybe it's not really an issue. What about newspapers? I would think it is very likely that a newspaper could easily get sucked up in the blower. Is it likely to plug up a PTO driven blower mounted to a 100HP tractor?


----------



## Herm Witte

DGODGR;1388510 said:


> Nobody has posted this question (even though this is post #500!) so maybe it's not really an issue. What about newspapers? I would think it is very likely that a newspaper could easily get sucked up in the blower. Is it likely to plug up a PTO driven blower mounted to a 100HP tractor?


Confetti is the likely result.


----------



## excav8ter

DGODGR;1388510 said:


> Nobody has posted this question (even though this is post #500!) so maybe it's not really an issue. What about newspapers? I would think it is very likely that a newspaper could easily get sucked up in the blower. Is it likely to plug up a PTO driven blower mounted to a 100HP tractor?


I have seen a few news papers go through my hydraulic driven blower in my track loader. So far, they have not been a problem. But our papers are generally not to the big.


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## OrganicsL&L

I would think that the paper would become a dangerous projectile! Honestly, I think that Herm's description is the likely result.


----------



## MogMan

Mostly anything short of rebar will be pureed. I've broken pins only when swallowing a mouthful of 3/4 gravel in the beginning of the season. The rest goes straight through.


----------



## blowerman

Herm Witte;1388531 said:


> Confetti is the likely result.


That's what happens... When we still had big old yellow page books, my skidloader blowers could clog. 
The big ones blow almost anything. I snap shear bolts sometimes hitting large piles of wet snow at a decent clip.


----------



## RAZOR

I have been lucky the last few times that the newspaper with all the flyers would go though in one piece some how but somethimes the whole street would get covered with shreaded paper. Hitting the contents of a buried recycling box is also fun, empty pop and soup cans shoot pretty far.


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## mafesto

Has anybody heard about these before? If they're durable, it would be nice if they came inverted too.

http://agrimetal.com/en/max-twin-snow-blower/


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## RAZOR

It looks interesting but I think it there would be a problem in the chute with snow plugging. You can only feed so much snow into the chute at one time. Maybe with powder snow it could be shot a greater distance thou.


----------



## Neige

Hey everyone this thread made it in snow Business magazine. I just finished reading through the whole thing and wow it makes for some really great reading. I know its been a very slow winter, hopefully the second half will pick up.
Once again Thumbs Up for every ones questions and comments, makes for an informative thread. ussmileyflagtymusic
http://www.snowbusiness-digital.com/JanFeb2012/JanFeb2012/0/0#&pageSet=27


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## Golfpro21

newspapers were going right thru the 92 " inverted Normand all season, until this last storm, for some reason a paper got caught between the inpeller and the drum, there is a 1/4 inch space btween the impeller and drum, and ofcourse the paper found that space.....took me an hour to get it out, finally had to get the truck to come out with a saw cut the damn thing out. I now had a small torch in the tractor, next time it is getting burnt out.


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## Golfpro21

this is our set up


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## Golfpro21

another angle


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## MRHORSEPOWER1

Golfpro21;1440626 said:


> this is our set up


Nice set up!! Thanks for sharing!


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## IMAGE

Golfpro21;1440626 said:


> this is our set up


Nice, looks great! I just found out I can sell Normand's into Canada, so if you (or anyone) want's a price on one just let me know. Thumbs Up


----------



## Golfpro21

IMAGE;1441878 said:


> Nice, looks great! I just found out I can sell Normand's into Canada, so if you (or anyone) want's a price on one just let me know. Thumbs Up


you must be who ray mentioned was interested in a Pronovost trade for the bi-directional normand


----------



## IMAGE

Golfpro21;1442134 said:


> you must be who ray mentioned was interested in a Pronovost trade for the bi-directional normand


Yeah I was just talking to Ray the other day and he mentioned you too. I'm not sure if I would be interested in a trade, but we could talk about it. I can definately get you a price on the Normand Functions+. Shoot me an email to [email protected] and we can go from there 
:salute:


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## MogMan

A note to people with Pronovost blowers:

Make sure you slack off the locking screw before you attempt to tighten the chain tensioner spring, otherwise this happens.

Since Pronovost paints their blowers once assembled, I thought that the lock nut was part of the spring cause of red paint everywhere.

Lucky to have a bunch of places around here that carry spares.

In order to swap those rods, you have to slack off the dual chain pulley from the outside with a 24mm socket while using a 8mm allen key to lock the bolt in place from the inside.


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## Golfpro21

MogMan;1456658 said:


> A note to people with Pronovost blowers:
> 
> Make sure you slack off the locking screw before you attempt to tighten the chain tensioner spring, otherwise this happens.
> 
> Since Pronovost paints their blowers once assembled, I thought that the lock nut was part of the spring cause of red paint everywhere.
> 
> Lucky to have a bunch of places around here that carry spares.
> 
> In order to swap those rods, you have to slack off the dual chain pulley from the outside with a 24mm socket while using a 8mm allen key to lock the bolt in place from the inside.


Mogman, thanks for the info, will make sure to retain that info


----------



## Grassman09

IMAGE;1441878 said:


> Nice, looks great! I just found out I can sell Normand's into Canada, so if you (or anyone) want's a price on one just let me know. Thumbs Up


Just curious as to why a Canadian would buy a Canadian product from an Amercian? Is it cheaper? I know I tried to buy a MBRP exhaust system direct from the MFG thats not far from me but there price was $200 more then it was from a dealer in Jersey. Nothing against Americans.


----------



## Golfpro21

Grassman09;1457898 said:


> Just curious as to why a Canadian would buy a Canadian product from an Amercian? Is it cheaper? I know I tried to buy a MBRP exhaust system direct from the MFG thats not far from me but there price was $200 more then it was from a dealer in Jersey. Nothing against Americans.


not sure, I have not been given prices, but I would guess that any cheaper price on the product would be killed by the duties charged at the border


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## blowerman

Grassman09;1457898 said:


> Just curious as to why a Canadian would buy a Canadian product from an Amercian? Is it cheaper? I know I tried to buy a MBRP exhaust system direct from the MFG thats not far from me but there price was $200 more then it was from a dealer in Jersey. Nothing against Americans.


I think it's because steve's the number one seller of Normand snowblowers in the US.
Plus he's a real nice guy to deal with.
Other than that, I couldn't answer your question.
But: I'll post another picture, sucking up 7" of wet snow this past week with mine. Worked flawless.


----------



## Herm Witte

Lookin good Chris. Sounds like you are pretty pleased with the set up. Glad you finally had some snow. Any comments on the pxpl vs. the Normand inverted?


----------



## IMAGE

Grassman09;1457898 said:


> Just curious as to why a Canadian would buy a Canadian product from an Amercian? Is it cheaper? I know I tried to buy a MBRP exhaust system direct from the MFG thats not far from me but there price was $200 more then it was from a dealer in Jersey. Nothing against Americans.


Basically because we have a free market where I may be able to get it to him at a better price then another dealer could. I'll give him a fair price that may or may not be less then he can get it somewhere else, I really don't know what pricing will be when he asks a Canadian dealer. But I'll give him a price so he can decide from there to buy from where he chooses.



Golfpro21;1459164 said:


> not sure, I have not been given prices, but I would guess that any cheaper price on the product would be killed by the duties charged at the border


Hey sorry I haven't gotten you that price. I've been hoping I would get my 2012 pricelist soon but I haven't seen it yet. I'm sure it's not much different from 2011 though anyways. If I don't see it in the next week or two i'll just figure it based on last years cost and make sure you're taken care of. Thumbs Up


----------



## blowerman

The down fall of snow blowing service. These are high wear items. Not that plows and pushers don't break, but I can tell you blowers have more mishaps during winter.

First picture is of my skid loader blower. Thought I'd use it last week to help out. Hooked a oddly placed cement to asphalt lip in a parking lot. Ripped part of the cutting edge and then tore apart the housing between the auger and impeller. SInce it already had a crack and was previously welded (albeit a bad job) not a big deal. WIll fix it again.
Second picture is the cutting edge on the PXPL blower. I guess he caught something and it bent a section and ripped off part of the cutting edge. I was trying to limp it until the end of the season, but that might not be the case.


----------



## Grassman09

blowerman;1459229 said:


> I think it's because steve's the number one seller of Normand snowblowers in the US.
> Plus he's a real nice guy to deal with.
> Other than that, I couldn't answer your question.
> But: I'll post another picture, sucking up 7" of wet snow this past week with mine. Worked flawless.


Ha ha okay. Nice blower would look better on a green tractor. Like my green tractor.



IMAGE;1459494 said:


> Basically because we have a free market where I may be able to get it to him at a better price then another dealer could. I'll give him a fair price that may or may not be less then he can get it somewhere else, I really don't know what pricing will be when he asks a Canadian dealer. But I'll give him a price so he can decide from there to buy from where he chooses.


Oh okay was just wondering hoe that worked.


----------



## crazymike

Just read this thread. It's got some great info and I'm seriously rethinking business strategy for this year.

I noticed a lot of people mentioning chinese tractors in this forum.

Just a heads up, don't buy them, they're crap.

I'm a former dealer. I've sold lots of them, and fixed just most.

Jinma, are the worst. They are a hobby tractor. Great for the guy that wants a tractor and doesn't need one. They are unreliable to see the least. Part support? Forget about it. Distributors stock a lot of parts, but certain parts take a while to get. And distributors are not like john deere or cat - you won't get parts on a holiday or weekend. And they break often! I snapped a smaller one in half once- was pretty funny.

They don't start well in the cold. You need a block heater for even mildly cold weather.
They are not full shuttle, still need the clutch.
The clutches need constant adjustment on some of them, this is annoying.
The cabs are noisy and not something you want to spend time in or have staff spend time in.
Road speeds are lacking, even for a tractor.

Fotons are a better built tractor. After the first batch of Jinmas they are the only ones I would carry.

Still not great at cold starting, etc... cabs leave a lot to be desired. Weak electrical system for aux lights and the like.

They are more reliable but have similar issues with clutch adjustments, parts, etc...

I used a foton 40hp for my personal driveway and a blower - it did a nice job. The tractor had power, and could blow snow. But again, using the clutch sucks, and it's a stiff clutch on these machines.

Also wouldn't start when it dropped really cold. It got to a point where I had to park the truck near the tractor if it was going to snow because it took so much juice to turn it over. And I had good winter oil and a good battery in there as well. Really needed a second battery.

I still have my chinese excavator. It's a fun little machine. If I want to dig a hole at home or fool around at the cottage, it's great. However, every time I need to do a paid job with it, something goes wrong. Tons of electrical problems, etc...

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## crazymike

Also, just curious, what's the most ground you guys are covering in a tractor?

I couldn't justify buying a JCB fastrack to just do driveways. But in a versatile or something, that does 30km/h over 40km/h, can you still cover a spread out route?

Ideally, long term, I would like to have tractors spread out. One in this town, one in the next, etc... But to start, how far out should I spread my advertising for one route?

I used to do rural drives in an older ford versatile. It was a bit slow and squirrely on the roads. How are the new TV series? Are they faster? Drive better?

What about speeds? On most skidsteers you can get a little more top end speed out of them. Is this possible on the hydrostatic tractors?


----------



## Golfpro21

crazymike;1461452 said:


> Also, just curious, what's the most ground you guys are covering in a tractor?
> 
> I couldn't justify buying a JCB fastrack to just do driveways. But in a versatile or something, that does 30km/h over 40km/h, can you still cover a spread out route?
> 
> Ideally, long term, I would like to have tractors spread out. One in this town, one in the next, etc... But to start, how far out should I spread my advertising for one route?
> 
> I used to do rural drives in an older ford versatile. It was a bit slow and squirrely on the roads. How are the new TV series? Are they faster? Drive better?
> 
> What about speeds? On most skidsteers you can get a little more top end speed out of them. Is this possible on the hydrostatic tractors?


my tractors do 40 km per hour, as for how far you want to spread your route, that depends on how fast of a service time you want to provide.


----------



## crazymike

Golfpro21;1465635 said:


> my tractors do 40 km per hour, as for how far you want to spread your route, that depends on how fast of a service time you want to provide.


I figured if you averaged 15 km/h, you could service 120 accounts in a 7 hour window spread out over 45kms. Those are just 2 car driveways. I would imagine you would make money at $350 a season.

Maybe I'm over ambitious with these figures?


----------



## OrganicsL&L

crazymike;1465896 said:


> I figured if you averaged 15 km/h, you could service 120 accounts in a 7 hour window spread out over 45kms. Those are just 2 car driveways. I would imagine you would make money at $350 a season.
> 
> Maybe I'm over ambitious with these figures?


I'm in the process of setting this up for next year, and I am worried about taking care of 150 drives in 6 hrs in a 3 sq. mile area. These are larger driveways, with side facing garages and turn arounds. Probably about 1500-2000 sq.feet per drive. I would think that 120 over 45 sq. KM is pretty spread out and you would spend too much time traveling. Tighten up that route.
But, do what you have to do to get it going and then tighten it up once you are servicing the accounts.


----------



## Golfpro21

although you want as tight a route as possible to keep service time as quick as possible, around here contracts include a time guarantee.

A typical contract in this area usually has a 12 hour time guarantee. Basically it guarantees a client will receive their first visit within 12 hours of completion of snow fall. 24 hours after first visit for a second visit.

Our service contract is similar, but we try to keep service times to under 8 hours for residential clients, the contract states 12 hours just incase something happens to equipment and to give us a bit of a window.


----------



## Golfpro21

crazymike;1465896 said:


> I figured if you averaged 15 km/h, you could service 120 accounts in a 7 hour window spread out over 45kms. Those are just 2 car driveways. I would imagine you would make money at $350 a season.
> 
> Maybe I'm over ambitious with these figures?


I would think that is a little ambitous, these tractors are not as nimble as you think,.....starting from stop is not as quick as you would imagine, turning around, stop signs, traffic lights etc really can dig into your service time.....so just make sure to keep this in mind


----------



## blowerman

To each is own...My belief is about 4 hrs. turn around. Streets are cleared so fast in my area that if the customer waited 12 hrs, they'd probably call and complain.

I've built almost all of my snow removal based on 4 to 5 hrs. at the most. During the night is a different story. If it stops snowing at 9 p.m. you've got more time. The problem; be it commercial or residential, comes from the daytime snows that stop at 9 or 10 a.m.


----------



## Golfpro21

blowerman;1466029 said:


> To each is own...My belief is about 4 hrs. turn around. Streets are cleared so fast in my area that if the customer waited 12 hrs, they'd probably call and complain.
> 
> I've built almost all of my snow removal based on 4 to 5 hrs. at the most. During the night is a different story. If it stops snowing at 9 p.m. you've got more time. The problem; be it commercial or residential, comes from the daytime snows that stop at 9 or 10 a.m.


Blowerman I agree................but 4-5 hours service time could take a few years to develop that tight a route with enough customers to turn a profit. As for city plows, in Barrie the only streets that get plowed that fast are main arterial roads and bus routes, as for the residential streets, this year it seems our wonderful city does not send the plows out until the following night after midnight (we have a bylaw for no parking after 11 pm during winter months on the road) so getting to the client within 5 hours in order to clear the city pile is not an issue, but the faster the service time the better you are compared to the competition


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## crazymike

Golfpro21;1466023 said:


> I would think that is a little ambitous, these tractors are not as nimble as you think,.....starting from stop is not as quick as you would imagine, turning around, stop signs, traffic lights etc really can dig into your service time.....so just make sure to keep this in mind


I have a lot of experience with tractors, just not blowing suburban residential snow. That's why I averaged the speed at 15 km/h instead of the 40km/h they can achieve.

45kms was not 45kms square, it was 45kms of total mileage.

I will be pushing this service hard for next year, but signing up enough accounts in a tight area to make it worth while, might be tricky. However, nobody is offering a service like that around here, and the ones that offer a price of $350 a season and try to do with trucks, go out of business.


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## StuveCorp

I think here that even an 6 hour service time(in a 'big' storm) would be acceptable as everyone treats residential as 'second class' compared to commercial.

It would be nice to see a Youtube showing some unusual or difficult drives being done...


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## Golfpro21

up here if your within 7-8 hours your fine, under 6 hours like a fellow plowsite member from Barrie is and your a stellar operation.


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## Jelinek61

A short video of me operating a John Deere 3720 w/ a front mount blower clearing some sidewalks.


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## merrimacmill

I have a 4 hour route time. I really think to much more than this is not safe all around. It might be ok to have 7-8 hour route time for 90% of the storms, but when that one 2-3 footer comes along, with 2-6 inches per hour falling, guys with a 7-8 hour route time would be in much worse shape. Especially if the town plows are able to come by for several passes (instead of 1 or 2) in between services. 

I spent time studying Paul's videos prior to starting this service. I would sit there with stop watches, and a spreadsheet for the data, and I would time every move he'd make in one of those tractors. One thing I noticed was at 2", most "double" drives are taking him 30-45 seconds. At the same time, with 8-12 inches in the driveway, and an almost 2 foot snow bank, most double driveways were taking 45 seconds to 1 minute. I timed video of 5-10 driveways for each scenario, and averaged it all together to come up with that figure. Average of only a 15 second increase for larger amounts of snow. Not bad at all compared to a plow, but multiply this by 200 driveways, for a service that was priced using "billable seconds" instead of even minutes or hours, and it adds up to 3,000 seconds or 50 minutes. I add a 20% waste factor into this, and then a 10% murphys law factor (calculates to 15 additional mins). So now we're at an extra 65 minutes added to a route just because of extra snow (which will be encountered). So a 7-8 hour route time is now over 8-9 hours, at best. 

Plus we are charging seasonally, but that price is based on service intervals in a given season, so the cost really works out similarly for me both ways. The options are more drives in a 7-8 hour route, with less services per year, cheaper seasonal cost to the customer. Or have less drives with a more frequent service interval, a 4 hour route, (which provides higher service level), and billy accordingly to the customer. Both are getting billed similarly with how I have my system laid out. Having that cheaper seasonal price to the customer might seem nice, but at a 4 hour route pricing scheme we are still VERY competitive in my market, I'll even go as far to say singular in my market.

When I laid this system out to work for me, I quickly realized that every single second of efficiency matters. Like I said before, I calculated this service using billable seconds. Starting with my desired sales budget, adding the overhead of owning dedicated snow equipment like this, and the short amount of hours in the season I have to acquire that sales goal makes my hourly, per minute, and per second cost very, very high. Thankfully this service is so efficient, that we can be very competitive in price to each customer, spreading the cost out over so many. But this means that every text that the driver has to stop to send/read from they're girlfriend costs me dollars, not even just cents. Every stop at the gas station to get coffee and shoot the breeze with the guys is costing major money per minute/second. If a driveway is being done improperly and requires 1 additional pass that wasn't factored into the pricing scheme, money is being lost. Multiply that type of waste over hundreds of driveways, and you have a serious problem on your hands. 

Now I understand every driveway isn't identical and some will take variances of time to complete, but as long as each driveway in a pricing category (ex: single, double, triple, etc) isn't more than 15 seconds off from what I designed that pricing category to be for a service time, then I figure the law of averages to take over at that point. Its a great, but very tight system to make successful.


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## OrganicsL&L

Great post Collin. I may want to come down and check out your set up. I am planning on doing the same up in the Portland Me. area. Did you have any problems selling the seasonal rate vs. the per storm fees that they probably paid with the "plow guys"?


----------



## crazymike

merrimacmill;1468376 said:


> I have a 4 hour route time. I really think to much more than this is not safe all around. It might be ok to have 7-8 hour route time for 90% of the storms, but when that one 2-3 footer comes along, with 2-6 inches per hour falling, guys with a 7-8 hour route time would be in much worse shape. Especially if the town plows are able to come by for several passes (instead of 1 or 2) in between services.
> 
> I spent time studying Paul's videos prior to starting this service. I would sit there with stop watches, and a spreadsheet for the data, and I would time every move he'd make in one of those tractors. One thing I noticed was at 2", most "double" drives are taking him 30-45 seconds. At the same time, with 8-12 inches in the driveway, and an almost 2 foot snow bank, most double driveways were taking 45 seconds to 1 minute. I timed video of 5-10 driveways for each scenario, and averaged it all together to come up with that figure. Average of only a 15 second increase for larger amounts of snow. Not bad at all compared to a plow, but multiply this by 200 driveways, for a service that was priced using "billable seconds" instead of even minutes or hours, and it adds up to 3,000 seconds or 50 minutes. I add a 20% waste factor into this, and then a 10% murphys law factor (calculates to 15 additional mins). So now we're at an extra 65 minutes added to a route just because of extra snow (which will be encountered). So a 7-8 hour route time is now over 8-9 hours, at best.
> 
> Plus we are charging seasonally, but that price is based on service intervals in a given season, so the cost really works out similarly for me both ways. The options are more drives in a 7-8 hour route, with less services per year, cheaper seasonal cost to the customer. Or have less drives with a more frequent service interval, a 4 hour route, (which provides higher service level), and billy accordingly to the customer. Both are getting billed similarly with how I have my system laid out. Having that cheaper seasonal price to the customer might seem nice, but at a 4 hour route pricing scheme we are still VERY competitive in my market, I'll even go as far to say singular in my market.


while dependent on location and estimated times out, what's your goal of gross income per tractor to make it worth while?

It's great to say I'm going to go get 120 drives and pay for a $45,000 tractor in one season and then it will be all profit. But that's probably unrealistic...


----------



## OrganicsL&L

crazymike;1468378 said:


> while dependent on location and estimated times out, what's your goal of gross income per tractor to make it worth while?
> 
> It's great to say I'm going to go get 120 drives and pay for a $45,000 tractor in one season and then it will be all profit. But that's probably unrealistic...


Have you watched any videos yet? I'm sure you have, and if you did the calculations like merrimac did, you will be able to determine how much you can gross in one season. Will you fully pay for the machine after paying a driver, fuel, maintenance, the blower etc? maybe, maybe not. Take some time and figure out the going rate for your area, and do the math from there.


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## merrimacmill

crazymike;1468378 said:


> while dependent on location and estimated times out, what's your goal of gross income per tractor to make it worth while?
> 
> It's great to say I'm going to go get 120 drives and pay for a $45,000 tractor in one season and then it will be all profit. But that's probably unrealistic...


As a gross number it isn't unrealistic for one unit, but you won't be using that to pay for the whole tractor. Factor in your marketing to get 120 drives it will take thousands and thousands in marketing, paying your driver which will cost 4000-5000 after taxes, fuel $1,000-$2,000 depending on tractor, snow blower purchase ($8,000-$10,000), registration of the tractor depending on your state this can be several thousand dollars as well. Then there is the few breakdowns/repairs that could happen, factor in 1-2 thousand there. Think of everything down to the smaller expenses like tire wear as well (generally around $1 per hour), etc.. I consider most of this stuff direct expenses to complete the job, even though some is in the gray area of overhead or not..

And of course to add the most important thing to that, overhead. Now depending on your overhead recovery system and how you apply it to your business and its different aspects (materials, labor, subcontracting, etc..), the amount of overhead taken from your tractors gross should vary, but will most likely be in the $8,000 to $10,000 dollar range for a 45K gross, I would say at least. But remember, this is WAY different for everyone.

Theres a lot of costs associated with it. This is NOT a magical service that you can invest 50K into, pay off in one year, and hit it rich. It might seem close to that on first thought, but its really not. Especially being so new to so many areas. You will be charged with the task of educating your customer base, selling them on "your concept", making them believe in you and your abilities enough to pay a flat rate, and completely define a non-existent market. I found this to be a very tall task, that is easily underestimated, but at the same time this is a great service to do that with.

Also something to think about, what will your plans be when the tractor and or blower breaks down mid storm (it will happen)? You would be providing a specialized service that cannot be replaced with other snow clearing means during a breakdown. In other words you can't sell snow blowing service, then show up with a plow. The business would be ruined.


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## blowerman

crazymike;1468378 said:


> while dependent on location and estimated times out, what's your goal of gross income per tractor to make it worth while?
> 
> It's great to say I'm going to go get 120 drives and pay for a $45,000 tractor in one season and then it will be all profit. But that's probably unrealistic...


Crazymike, why does everyone think one a truck/machine is paid off, the rest is profit?

Merrimacmill, great job breaking down the cost of running tractors with inverted blowers...

While I could add: the TV145 with Pxpl is a faster blower per drive (since you like to time everything) the cost of operating that tractor is higher.


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## merrimacmill

blowerman;1468408 said:


> Crazymike, why does everyone think one a truck/machine is paid off, the rest is profit?
> 
> Merrimacmill, great job breaking down the cost of running tractors with inverted blowers...
> 
> While I could add: the TV145 with Pxpl is a faster blower per drive (since you like to time everything) the cost of operating that tractor is higher.


Thats interesting, I've looked at the TV145 online and really like what I see. I've also watched all your videos, very cool. Do you find the additional efficiency gained with that machine, off sets the additional operating cost of it?

I keep a reasonably low overhead with my M7040's, both in machine cost, and fuel usage (which is always shockingly minimal with these machines). But before I owned one of these blowers, I never would have dreamed of spending this kind of money on one, simply because I never understood the efficiency upgrades that they can provide. Your advocacy, along with Paul, of using blowers is what made me purchase them. I've now found all kinds of uses for them, even on commercial. You will be seeing me adding them to all aspects of my operation as the need and $ permits.. I guess what I'm saying, this whole experience has made me realize spending significantly more on the right equipment, can infact be much more profitable if its production rates match up.


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## blowerman

Merrimacmill, 
The efficiency of the TV145/pxpl is untouchable. While it costs a little more to run, as of now my numbers appear to make the bi-drive worth it.


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## crazymike

blowerman;1468408 said:


> Crazymike, why does everyone think one a truck/machine is paid off, the rest is profit?
> 
> Merrimacmill, great job breaking down the cost of running tractors with inverted blowers...
> 
> While I could add: the TV145 with Pxpl is a faster blower per drive (since you like to time everything) the cost of operating that tractor is higher.


I said that was unrealistic to think the machine was paid off of 120 driveways. Even though you might get and make $45,000

That's why I asked what the estimated gross was per tractor, not Net. Net is completely dependent on each business. It you NET $5000 a tractor a year it's good for you, but it means nothing to me.

For my overhead, I use a multiple recovery method system, similar to that in the vanderkooi books.

So sorry if my post was misconstrued.


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## crazymike

merrimacmill;1468394 said:


> As a gross number it isn't unrealistic for one unit, but you won't be using that to pay for the whole tractor. Factor in your marketing to get 120 drives it will take thousands and thousands in marketing, paying your driver which will cost 4000-5000 after taxes, fuel $1,000-$2,000 depending on tractor, snow blower purchase ($8,000-$10,000), registration of the tractor depending on your state this can be several thousand dollars as well. Then there is the few breakdowns/repairs that could happen, factor in 1-2 thousand there. Think of everything down to the smaller expenses like tire wear as well (generally around $1 per hour), etc.. I consider most of this stuff direct expenses to complete the job, even though some is in the gray area of overhead or not..
> 
> And of course to add the most important thing to that, overhead. Now depending on your overhead recovery system and how you apply it to your business and its different aspects (materials, labor, subcontracting, etc..), the amount of overhead taken from your tractors gross should vary, but will most likely be in the $8,000 to $10,000 dollar range for a 45K gross, I would say at least. But remember, this is WAY different for everyone.
> 
> Theres a lot of costs associated with it. This is NOT a magical service that you can invest 50K into, pay off in one year, and hit it rich. It might seem close to that on first thought, but its really not. Especially being so new to so many areas. You will be charged with the task of educating your customer base, selling them on "your concept", making them believe in you and your abilities enough to pay a flat rate, and completely define a non-existent market. I found this to be a very tall task, that is easily underestimated, but at the same time this is a great service to do that with.
> 
> Also something to think about, what will your plans be when the tractor and or blower breaks down mid storm (it will happen)? You would be providing a specialized service that cannot be replaced with other snow clearing means during a breakdown. In other words you can't sell snow blowing service, then show up with a plow. The business would be ruined.


this is something I'm struggling with. Breakdowns.

If I only have one tractor, and suffer a breakdown, I'm in trouble. I do have a local farmer I can turn to for assistance, but it won't be a seamless turnover to his equipment.

I'm putting into my business plan to go with a new/demo New Holland or Case. The case dealership is closest, but I had bad luck with my last Case loader tractor at my farm. Minor issues, but it wasn't a high quality product. However, it was a JX series which are made in a different country/plant than the U series.

I've seen guys estimate useful life of these tractors for 15 years. Is this realistic for a business model?

What kind of catastraphic breakdowns have you guys had with new equipment? For those without tons of tractors, how do you handle this?

I could send out my box truck with hand blowers, but they won't get 120 drives down in one night and their walkways.

Even catching up with a pickup truck and plow will struggle.

Thanks for the tips.


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## crazymike

How about a skidsteer as a backup?

I would have to get a blower with a front door and would mean it could not be subbed out for commercial work over the winter, But might be a necessary safety net.

However, even a 2 speed machine would be nowhere near as productive as a tractor


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## Golfpro21

we have two brand new machines (at beginning of season) both are New Hollands and both experienced substantial down time. The 4050 had an internal hydrolic leak that kept it down for 3 days waiting for a part. The 5050 had a hysrolic leak on the pump and it too took 3 days to fix and have it back. I was fortunate enough to have a really light winter so things happened when we did not get snow.

My dealer is awesome (Richards Equipment Ltd) and they have always promised to set me up with a loaner machine and install one of my blowers while my machine is down.

As for calculating gross/net profits, why would you pay off the entire machine in one season, why would you not finance at 0 % over 5 -6 years, take all your finance costs from revenue, also take out operating costs such as fuel, insurance, marketing, misc repairs, storage, maintenance costs and the rest is net profit for that fiscal year?


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## StuveCorp

The backup/emergency plan with the blowers is a good question for those who are starting, how do you have another blower and a backup tractor just sitting there? It is important because I don't think a truck could ever 'fill-in' without breaking the budget. I know here there just isn't blowers laying around.

As for the 15 year tractor life, would it be better to trade them off sooner? More like a five year cycle?


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## crazymike

Golfpro21;1468469 said:


> we have two brand new machines (at beginning of season) both are New Hollands and both experienced substantial down time. The 4050 had an internal hydrolic leak that kept it down for 3 days waiting for a part. The 5050 had a hysrolic leak on the pump and it too took 3 days to fix and have it back. I was fortunate enough to have a really light winter so things happened when we did not get snow.
> 
> My dealer is awesome (Richards Equipment Ltd) and they have always promised to set me up with a loaner machine and install one of my blowers while my machine is down.
> 
> As for calculating gross/net profits, why would you pay off the entire machine in one season, why would you not finance at 0 % over 5 -6 years, take all your finance costs from revenue, also take out operating costs such as fuel, insurance, marketing, misc repairs, storage, maintenance costs and the rest is net profit for that fiscal year?


That's my goal, to finance over 5 years. I said it would be unrealistic to buy the tractor outright cash. Even though it could work on paper, it's not the best solution.

Regardless of what I purchase, I plan to do it through a dealer for the reasons you mentioned. It sucks that you ran into problems even with new machines. I might lean towards trying to find a low hour demo that has the kinks worked out.

The closest new holland to me is Bob Mark and have had good luck dealing with them before.

But regardless of dealership, they are ag dealers. If my machine goes down at 10pm on Saturday, there will be no loaner until Monday at best.

I'm excited about setting this up over the summer, but want to consider every single angle.


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## crazymike

Also Golf, did you pay HST on your machines?

Tractors over 50hp used to be tax exempt. Not sure that's the case anymore.


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## schrader

crazymike;1468476 said:


> Also Golf, did you pay HST on your machines?
> 
> Tractors over 50hp used to be tax exempt. Not sure that's the case anymore.


No HST on the 5085 that I bought in the fall, but HST on the 6430 that I leased this winter.


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## blowerman

StuveCorp;1468472 said:


> The backup/emergency plan with the blowers is a good question for those who are starting, how do you have another blower and a backup tractor just sitting there? It is important because I don't think a truck could ever 'fill-in' without breaking the budget. I know here there just isn't blowers laying around.
> 
> As for the 15 year tractor life, would it be better to trade them off sooner? More like a five year cycle?


Dont' feel bad about this question, I struggled with it too... My back up for the PXPL/TV145 was a extra skid loader with blower. 
Is it a comparable time? No... But it sure beats a truck. You guys are right to realize that building a 100 plus driveway route for a tractor works until a break down.
My back up now is a Deere 326d skid loader with 74" blower (previous posted pics) or I can swap out the Kubota/inverted tractor and help finish if the other were to break.
Finally, the Deere 444k with 12 ft. Protech snow pusher mounted on a JRB couple fills in if needed. While it looks like over kill, you'd be amazed how fast a two car driveway can be back dragged with a wheel loader and pusher.
And last, the local Deere dealer has a 210 loader with box scraper that's always sitting around with my name on it if needed. Not ideal, but works in a pinch.


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## Herm Witte

We have several residential routes one of which is the inverted blower on a New	Holland. All of our pick ups and one tons are equiped with front and rear pull plows and serve as back ups to the inverted route. Hope to add a second inverted next season.


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## Landcare - Mont

schrader;1468493 said:


> No HST on the 5085 that I bought in the fall, but HST on the 6430 that I leased this winter.


Because buying is GST exempt, leasing is not.


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## Golfpro21

yes as mentioned, purchasing the equipment is HST exempt, but there is HST on lease payments. That being said, financing you only get to write off a percentage of the payments each year, where as a lease payment is 100% tax deductible..............I am not saying the lease is the way to go, we financed both our machines.

Back to the back up equipment issue..............we have a plow truck on stand by, but as mentioned it would take all day and night to plow all properties, plus people would complain (but its better than no service) We are also linked to 2 other companies in the city that offer same services with similar equipment, so we all have agreed to help each other out if needed.............but having a machine go down when it is needed is a serious PITA no matter what way you slice it unless your fortunate enough to have a spare one sitting around.


----------



## Landcare - Mont

Golfpro21;1468696 said:


> yes as mentioned, purchasing the equipment is HST exempt, but there is HST on lease payments. That being said, financing you only get to write off a percentage of the payments each year, where as a lease payment is 100% tax deductible..............I am not saying the lease is the way to go, we financed both our machines.


Is the HST or GST not a flow-through item in Ontario? I don't believe it affects your expenses, only your cash flow. We don't get to write off any of our finance payments (well, the interest portion if it's not 0% finance) but we do get to expense depreciation each year against the original purchase price of the machine and the machine shows as a fixed asset on our balance sheet along with the financing showing as a long-term debt. You can't depreciate a leased machine and it also isn't an asset, strictly an expense, when you are presenting financial statements to your bank.


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## Golfpro21

Landcare - Mont;1468709 said:


> Is the HST or GST not a flow-through item in Ontario? I don't believe it affects your expenses, only your cash flow. We don't get to write off any of our finance payments (well, the interest portion if it's not 0% finance) but we do get to expense depreciation each year against the original purchase price of the machine and the machine shows as a fixed asset on our balance sheet along with the financing showing as a long-term debt. You can't depreciate a leased machine and it also isn't an asset, strictly an expense, when you are presenting financial statements to your bank.


yes the way you put it sounds like its coming from an accountant......that is how it works


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## Landcare - Mont

Golfpro21;1468710 said:


> yes the way you put it sounds like its coming from an accountant......that is how it works


After 40-odd years in business, we've discovered that it's very important to have some idea about bookkeeping and accounting and to have a very trustworthy and competent accountant available. It helps a good deal in the decision-making process when buying/leasing equipment, etc.


----------



## 4wydnr

Landcare - Mont;1468713 said:


> After 40-odd years in business, we've discovered that it's very important to have some idea about bookkeeping and accounting and to have a very trustworthy and competent accountant available. It helps a good deal in the decision-making process when buying/leasing equipment, etc.


Sounds like something I read in "The Millionaire Mind." Most wealthy people consult with accountants and lawyers often when it comes to larger business decisions.


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## Golfpro21

yes an accountant is a valuable part of a company. We are lucky enough to service our accountant's offices and family homes in return for their services, so we get great advise and accounting services


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## snoworks07

Second: It is my understanding that you recently purchased a newer New Holland T6020. I was wondering why did you decide on the T6020 instead of the T4050 being that they have similar HP levels but a $10,000+ price difference? I know there are other difference, but specifically for the use of snow blowing what are the difference that made you decide on the T6020 despite the cost difference?[/QUOTE]

Paul,

I saw this question asked twice during my 5 hour reading of this thread. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I purchased your webinar from sima, prior to reading this thread, look forward to listening to it.

Thanks,

Chuck B.


----------



## snoworks07

Anyone have any insight to how to check what the laws are of operating a tractor on village/state roads?


----------



## RLM

I know here I didn't register mine as it was working in one neighborhood (HOA), and stored about 1/2 mile away, my friend went through hell trying to get his registered because "we don't register tractors", but being non farm related it had to be, they did finally register it under special purpose commercial.


----------



## IMAGE

snoworks07;1474294 said:


> Anyone have any insight to how to check what the laws are of operating a tractor on village/state roads?


Where are you located? The local DMV would be my guess. Although I don't have to register here.


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## IMAGE

snoworks07;1474292 said:


> Second: It is my understanding that you recently purchased a newer New Holland T6020. I was wondering why did you decide on the T6020 instead of the T4050 being that they have similar HP levels but a $10,000+ price difference? I know there are other difference, but specifically for the use of snow blowing what are the difference that made you decide on the T6020 despite the cost difference?


Paul,

I saw this question asked twice during my 5 hour reading of this thread. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I purchased your webinar from sima, prior to reading this thread, look forward to listening to it.

Thanks,

Chuck B.[/QUOTE]

Hey Chuck, I'm pretty sure he went with 6xxx series because 1) Better Trans Options 2) flat floor / better cab 3) push button controls 4) bigger framed tractor, so it's less stress on the tractor, even with same blower.

At least those are the things thag pop out to me as very nice upgrades compared to the 4xxx series.


----------



## snoworks07

Anyone have any experience with the Kubota M108s tractor? I saw this machine at the dealership and it looks like it would tackle a 92 inverted blower. It has over 95 hp at the pto as well. Its also $11k cheaper than the M110.


----------



## blowerman

snoworks07;1475109 said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Kubota M108s tractor? I saw this machine at the dealership and it looks like it would tackle a 92 inverted blower. It has over 95 hp at the pto as well. Its also $11k cheaper than the M110.


The main difference in Kubota models are the ergonomics of the machine.
It's up to you when making the decision on transmissions, seat layout, cab design, etc.
Is that worth $5K or 10K more? In my opinion, yes.


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## snoworks07

blowerman;1475136 said:


> The main difference in Kubota models are the ergonomics of the machine.
> It's up to you when making the decision on transmissions, seat layout, cab design, etc.
> Is that worth $5K or 10K more? In my opinion, yes.


Blowerman,

Any chance I can take you out to lunch next week and come see your set-up? Send me an email either way [email protected]

The M110 is the same height and length as the M108S. The M108S is actually quite a bit wider than the M110. The big difference I see is with all the upgrade options on the M110, like the hand controls on the arm rest or the electronic switches.


----------



## merrimacmill

Does anyone have more input on the differences in the larger frame and more medium frame tractors? I'm planning the purchase of another tractor and have been going back and forth between a larger frame M100x and a more medium frame model such as a M9540.

I'm very enticed to the M9540 due to the lower cost, and the fact that I already have 2 M7040's both equipped with blowers. I would like to keep the operation of the tractors the same as well. I figure if I get a different machine, with different operations, then drivers will have to get used to that. In an emergency/quick maneuver situation, drivers will be used to the location of all controls, across all of my machines without needing to remember which one they're in and what the differences are. Also, parts and service is a concern. Currently I stock all consumable parts for my M7040s, and I imagine and M9540 would not be to much different, in both parts (filters, cables, oil, etc) and service points (clutch adjustment, oil changes, grease points, etc). 

The other plus is preventative maintenance. If I keep all my machines the same, or close to the same, and I have an alternator go out at 750 hours with an identifiable cause, and I have another machine at 690 hours then I know I should check or replace that alternator as well based on the fact that they're the same part number, with similar hours, operated and maintained in the same conditions. (I know this applies more to group of sequenced serial number machines, but I still use it otherwise).

On the other hand, I like the added weight of the M100x (when pushing a plow) and I like the added ergonomics of it. Not to mention the size of it just looks plain cool (not that I buy based on coolness). The ergonomics of it is great, but being a "snow-only" tractor thats run 50-100 hours a year (depending on snow), I'm not overly worried about if the guys need to move they're arm a bit more, or clutch more often. So it really comes down to performance. Will there be any performance enhancements, or longevity enhancements (due to added strength) in a M100x size machine that is worth the added $10K-$15K? I don't personally think the added size of it is great for driveways, although I'm sure it wouldn't make that much of a difference. But keep in mind, for about half the accounts we do, I'm working in VERY tight new england neighborhoods that were built before the revolutionary war.. This past season, there were several occasions I would be servicing a driveway on a busy road, and with my small"er" machine I was able to pull out of the driveway and turn out, without going past the breakdown lane which prevented me from having to wait for traffic to go by. I could be wrong, but I'm not sure such a large machine would allow me to do that. 

One other thing that scares me about the larger machines is all the technology in them, in comparison to the M40 series. While I'm a big advocate for technology, when I'm only using something a handful of hours each year, I like to keep things simple. I'd rather replace a linkage or cable mid-storm, than have to figure out why my electronic, push-button, this or that is not working. 

Lets here some more thoughts and opinions on the larger frame vs. medium frame machines...


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## RLM

I can't comment on brand specifics, because we run JD. But I will say blower weight/ length have alot to do with it. Our 5101 with SHoule blowers require a good bit of counter weight, I have 400, steve has 600, both could use more. That said their are light units, and units closer to the 3pt. As we get more into it we will be looking more toward that brand as they have a better selection.


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## snoworks07

One of my Kubota M110's is supposed to be shipped to me by Friday. Looking forward to getting some seat time to get used to it. Still up in the air on a blower set up. 

As far as big vs. small machines goes, I can tell you that the new cab layout of the M110 is unreal. So visibility and function/ergonomics have been dialed in big time. The bi-speed turn option on this machine also makes this machine more nimble than my Jeep Wranglers with front and rear plows on them!


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## DGODGR

merrimacmill;1479088 said:


> Does anyone have more input on the differences in the larger frame and more medium frame tractors? I'm planning the purchase of another tractor and have been going back and forth between a larger frame M100x and a more medium frame model such as a M9540.
> 
> I'm very enticed to the M9540 due to the lower cost, and the fact that I already have 2 M7040's both equipped with blowers. I would like to keep the operation of the tractors the same as well. I figure if I get a different machine, with different operations, then drivers will have to get used to that. In an emergency/quick maneuver situation, drivers will be used to the location of all controls, across all of my machines without needing to remember which one they're in and what the differences are. Also, parts and service is a concern. Currently I stock all consumable parts for my M7040s, and I imagine and M9540 would not be to much different, in both parts (filters, cables, oil, etc) and service points (clutch adjustment, oil changes, grease points, etc).
> 
> The other plus is preventative maintenance. If I keep all my machines the same, or close to the same, and I have an alternator go out at 750 hours with an identifiable cause, and I have another machine at 690 hours then I know I should check or replace that alternator as well based on the fact that they're the same part number, with similar hours, operated and maintained in the same conditions. (I know this applies more to group of sequenced serial number machines, but I still use it otherwise).
> 
> On the other hand, I like the added weight of the M100x (when pushing a plow) and I like the added ergonomics of it. Not to mention the size of it just looks plain cool (not that I buy based on coolness). The ergonomics of it is great, but being a "snow-only" tractor thats run 50-100 hours a year (depending on snow), I'm not overly worried about if the guys need to move they're arm a bit more, or clutch more often. So it really comes down to performance. Will there be any performance enhancements, or longevity enhancements (due to added strength) in a M100x size machine that is worth the added $10K-$15K? I don't personally think the added size of it is great for driveways, although I'm sure it wouldn't make that much of a difference. But keep in mind, for about half the accounts we do, I'm working in VERY tight new england neighborhoods that were built before the revolutionary war.. This past season, there were several occasions I would be servicing a driveway on a busy road, and with my small"er" machine I was able to pull out of the driveway and turn out, without going past the breakdown lane which prevented me from having to wait for traffic to go by. I could be wrong, but I'm not sure such a large machine would allow me to do that.
> 
> One other thing that scares me about the larger machines is all the technology in them, in comparison to the M40 series. While I'm a big advocate for technology, when I'm only using something a handful of hours each year, I like to keep things simple. I'd rather replace a linkage or cable mid-storm, than have to figure out why my electronic, push-button, this or that is not working.
> 
> Lets here some more thoughts and opinions on the larger frame vs. medium frame machines...


Collin,
Have you gone to compare these tractors at the dealer yet? I looked at them both last year and they seem as though they are basically the same machine. The 9540 I looked at had +/-900 hours on it (from the dealers rental fleet), with a loader, and the 100 was new, without a loader. At that time I decided that the 100 was going to be what I purchased. The 9540 seemed pretty beat (especially for only 900 hrs) and the cash flow demand was to be less on the 100 because it was offered at zero % financing. On the spec sheets they are not too far off. I think that the wheelbase is only 7" different. Turning radius is only .3" different. The 100 weighs about 2k# more. The width is a harder to establish number as the brochures I have do not give widths for the 4WD 9540. If it's the same as the 2WD the diff. is only 5". IMO it really boils down to price and fuel consumption. They both employ the same engine but the 100 has a common rail fuel system and the 9540 has, what Kubota labels as, E-CDIS. I'm not versed enough to know the difference but I bet they will have similar fuel consumption. I bet that both engines employ the same filters (a call to the parts guy will verify that easy enough) so that should make your maint. simple enough. The 7040 has the smaller engine but it may use the same filters too (or maybe some of the same). If the dimensions of the 100 are not so much larger that it will still fit in your "pre revolutionary neighborhoods" then all you are left with is price. There are not many folks around, with both tractors in the fleet, that can tell you if you get any more productivity, extended life cycle, or whatever, that will justify the extra money to purchase the 100. I'm guessing that you will have to see if it fits in your model/price point. If so, you may just have to try it and let the rest of us know what you find. If not, you must decide if you are willing to change your model/price point to fit the machine or stick with what you already know (the 7040s). Sorry that I can't offer first hand experience with the machines in question but my guess is that Paul _MIGHT_ be the only one who has them both in his fleet....maybe.


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## Neige

snoworks07;1474292 said:


> Second: It is my understanding that you recently purchased a newer New Holland T6020. I was wondering why did you decide on the T6020 instead of the T4050 being that they have similar HP levels but a $10,000+ price difference? I know there are other difference, but specifically for the use of snow blowing what are the difference that made you decide on the T6020 despite the cost difference?


Paul,

I saw this question asked twice during my 5 hour reading of this thread. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I purchased your webinar from sima, prior to reading this thread, look forward to listening to it.

Thanks,

Chuck B.[/QUOTE]

The only reason was that I when I acquired that company I also got his equipment. The cost differences is really in the bells and whistles and confort levels. Remember these tractors are built for farmers who spend many, many hours at a time in these machines.
Personally I find the 6020 over done, with way to much electronics that can go wrong. Now I have no experience with the 4050, but I can tell you a contractor close to me who has 8500 resi clients uses a whole bunch of 4050's and is very satisfied with them.



snoworks07;1475109 said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Kubota M108s tractor? I saw this machine at the dealership and it looks like it would tackle a 92 inverted blower. It has over 95 hp at the pto as well. Its also $11k cheaper than the M110.


I almost got one the other year, and loved how it handled. I ended up getting the M95x for a better price at the time. If you like it and the price is right you will not go wrong with the 108.



snoworks07;1479103 said:


> One of my Kubota M110's is supposed to be shipped to me by Friday. Looking forward to getting some seat time to get used to it. Still up in the air on a blower set up.
> 
> As far as big vs. small machines goes, I can tell you that the new cab layout of the M110 is unreal. So visibility and function/ergonomics have been dialed in big time. The bi-speed turn option on this machine also makes this machine more nimble than my Jeep Wranglers with front and rear plows on them!


Just a note on the bi-speed. Its a great option, but be careful because when you crank the wheel and it engages, your tractor lurches forward unexpectedly. It can be unnerving at first.



merrimacmill;1479088 said:


> Does anyone have more input on the differences in the larger frame and more medium frame tractors? I'm planning the purchase of another tractor and have been going back and forth between a larger frame M100x and a more medium frame model such as a M9540.
> 
> I'm very enticed to the M9540 due to the lower cost, and the fact that I already have 2 M7040's both equipped with blowers. I would like to keep the operation of the tractors the same as well. I figure if I get a different machine, with different operations, then drivers will have to get used to that. In an emergency/quick maneuver situation, drivers will be used to the location of all controls, across all of my machines without needing to remember which one they're in and what the differences are. Also, parts and service is a concern. Currently I stock all consumable parts for my M7040s, and I imagine and M9540 would not be to much different, in both parts (filters, cables, oil, etc) and service points (clutch adjustment, oil changes, grease points, etc).
> 
> The other plus is preventative maintenance. If I keep all my machines the same, or close to the same, and I have an alternator go out at 750 hours with an identifiable cause, and I have another machine at 690 hours then I know I should check or replace that alternator as well based on the fact that they're the same part number, with similar hours, operated and maintained in the same conditions. (I know this applies more to group of sequenced serial number machines, but I still use it otherwise).
> 
> On the other hand, I like the added weight of the M100x (when pushing a plow) and I like the added ergonomics of it. Not to mention the size of it just looks plain cool (not that I buy based on coolness). The ergonomics of it is great, but being a "snow-only" tractor thats run 50-100 hours a year (depending on snow), I'm not overly worried about if the guys need to move they're arm a bit more, or clutch more often. So it really comes down to performance. Will there be any performance enhancements, or longevity enhancements (due to added strength) in a M100x size machine that is worth the added $10K-$15K? I don't personally think the added size of it is great for driveways, although I'm sure it wouldn't make that much of a difference. But keep in mind, for about half the accounts we do, I'm working in VERY tight new england neighborhoods that were built before the revolutionary war.. This past season, there were several occasions I would be servicing a driveway on a busy road, and with my small"er" machine I was able to pull out of the driveway and turn out, without going past the breakdown lane which prevented me from having to wait for traffic to go by. I could be wrong, but I'm not sure such a large machine would allow me to do that.
> 
> One other thing that scares me about the larger machines is all the technology in them, in comparison to the M40 series. While I'm a big advocate for technology, when I'm only using something a handful of hours each year, I like to keep things simple. I'd rather replace a linkage or cable mid-storm, than have to figure out why my electronic, push-button, this or that is not working.
> 
> Lets here some more thoughts and opinions on the larger frame vs. medium frame machines...


Wow Collin we do sure think alike. I agree 100% with the technology aspect, linkage is much easier to fix, and much cheaper.
As far as driveways, both machines are great and the turning is almost identical. The down side with the M100 is the cab is wider and if your clearing older neighborhoods there is a greater chance of scraping and damagaing the M100 cab due to tree branches.
For commercial application the M100 is better suited, its heavier, and the powershift is very handy. Either machine will be fine, just depends on how much you want to spend.


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## RLM

Paul,
The contractor tuning the 4050's, what blowers is he running or just a bunch of front weights ?


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## Neige

RLM;1480839 said:


> Paul,
> The contractor tuning the 4050's, what blowers is he running or just a bunch of front weights ?


He has both Normand and Pronovost, he buys like 10 new blowers a year, so who ever gets him the best price is who he goes with. I just acquired another competitor last month and he was using a 4050. He paid 60 grand for it new, I can still get a Kubota for around 55 grand, so I was not interested.


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## RLM

You pay way more for the JD than we do, our 5101 with the blowers were I believe a touch over 60, when factoring in finance packages the JD were less than the Kubota or New Holland.


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## OrganicsL&L

Just spent a few hours with Paul(Neige) yesterday, and, as you all probably know, nothing short of a great guy. Very knowledgeable and even more willing to share that knowledge.

Whatever doubt existed in my mind before is gone now....can't wait to get those tractors going!

Thanks again Paul!


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## NLS1

Much agreed! Paul is one in a million, and is as good a guy as I have ever met.

Good luck with your setup this year Organics L&L

Dan


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## excav8ter

Would a John Deere 5420(?) work with an inverted blower? I just turned in pricing for a condo complex with 76 units, and 6-8 more under construction right now. I know its not a big tractor, but the drives are between 25-35 feet long. They want everything blown, except the roads. I proposed that they just low the whole place. What size blower would be best?


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## blowerman

From my review, the 5420 is 65 PTO hp? In any case, it will work, just light on the front end and power. If you want, a smaller inverted blower could be an option. Front suitcase weights will cure the problem with the weight of the blower if you decide on a 8 ft. unit. 
With that in mind; do you own this unit? If so, then make do with what you have. Which blower are you looking at? How's the contract structured for this project?


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## Neige

excav8ter;1498803 said:


> Would a John Deere 5420(?) work with an inverted blower? I just turned in pricing for a condo complex with 76 units, and 6-8 more under construction right now. I know its not a big tractor, but the drives are between 25-35 feet long. They want everything blown, except the roads. I proposed that they just low the whole place. What size blower would be best?


You have two choices you can go for the 92 inch Normand inverted. Its rated for 60/85 HP on the PTO. You will definitely need weights for the front. The 82 inch may be a better option, and it weighs 450 lbs less. Its rated between 40/65 HP on the PTO and sells about $1,500 less than the 92 inch. I agree get the contract for roads and all.


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## excav8ter

blowerman;1498810 said:


> From my review, the 5420 is 65 PTO hp? In any case, it will work, just light on the front end and power. If you want, a smaller inverted blower could be an option. Front suitcase weights will cure the problem with the weight of the blower if you decide on a 8 ft. unit.
> With that in mind; do you own this unit? If so, then make do with what you have. Which blower are you looking at? How's the contract structured for this project?


I don't own the tractor, but with my other accounts, it would be beneficial to have if I land this new account. I currently plan to have 2 Takeuchi CTL's with a 5' and 6' blower on the site. A pick up will clean the roads up. The board of the association is asking for hourly rates for shoveling, plowing and snow blowing.


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## excav8ter

Neige;1498966 said:


> You have two choices you can go for the 92 inch Normand inverted. Its rated for 60/85 HP on the PTO. You will definitely need weights for the front. The 82 inch may be a better option, and it weighs 450 lbs less. Its rated between 40/65 HP on the PTO and sells about $1,500 less than the 92 inch. I agree get the contract for roads and all.


Regardless of cost, would I be better off going with the smaller blower and not have the tractor struggle to power it? Or is the 92" going to work fine? Quite a bit of drifting at both places I want to use it.


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## blowerman

Since you don't own the tractor, perhaps a different unit would work better. I'd never submit hourly rates for clearing drives. I do however bill hourly for the shoveling and per unit for the drive with regards to condos that I clear. This per unit fee is every time I'm on their driveway. 
Also, the two Tauks are overkill. I personally would skip the track loader blower combo, you'll be burning up tracks faster than you can recover the costs.


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## excav8ter

I own the Takeuchi machines, and use them quite regularly to blow piles back and widen road ways. They work well enough for what we do......but a tractor would be much better. 
I wanted to do the plowing/blowing by the push as well, but they want it hourly. There is only a couple companies around here that seem to be set up for blowing with any type of machine, be it a tractor, CTL or MTL. I really want to get into snow blowing, but since I bought my Ebling last year, I am not quite as excited about snow blowing......the Ebling is amazing on driveways, plus I have enough room to drag the snow out across the road into a large field or common space. The road is private so no worries there....plus I also plow the road.


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## blowerman

Almost 60 thousand views to this thread, that's great... The information here is invaluable!

SInce you own the Taks, then just use them. Honestly, with them wanting to pay hourly, how would you justify the cost of tractor/blower? Also, I imagine the Ebling does a nice job, what's wrong with using that?

Feel like sharing how you are going to bid? 76 units at $12 each is typical of how I'd bid. But wait: I also request a minimum since I'm the only guy with blowers around my area. Otherwise, I'll take them and go home.


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## excav8ter

blowerman;1499324 said:


> Almost 60 thousand views to this thread, that's great... The information here is invaluable!
> 
> SInce you own the Taks, then just use them. Honestly, with them wanting to pay hourly, how would you justify the cost of tractor/blower? Also, I imagine the Ebling does a nice job, what's wrong with using that?
> 
> Feel like sharing how you are going to bid? 76 units at $12 each is typical of how I'd bid. But wait: I also request a minimum since I'm the only guy with blowers around my area. Otherwise, I'll take them and go home.


If I end up with this place, which I'm not sure I really want it, I will use the track loaders.
The condo board specifically ask for ZERO back blade work.....not sure why, but the driveways are to be blown. I wanted to pull the drives down to the road and then blow the snow off the road.

Part of the reason I'm not sure I want it, is because its on the opposite side of town from all of our other sites.

A quick mental break down of the current associations I plow, the average is between $10 and $18 per unit....including sidewalk shoveling, but no salting. The sidewalks take about 2-4 minutes each.


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## MRHORSEPOWER1

Hello all,

Just curious if anybody tried using 74" Normand Inverted Snowblower with John Deere 3720?


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## RAZOR

I had a Normand 74 inch inverted on a Kubota 5030 if that is any help to you. All I can say is that I used that blower for about 3 season with no problems other than maybe replacing a hose or two.


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## MRHORSEPOWER1

RAZOR;1510065 said:


> I had a Normand 74 inch inverted on a Kubota 5030 if that is any help to you. All I can say is that I used that blower for about 3 season with no problems other than maybe replacing a hose or two.


Thanks Razor. That's what I want to know. Kubota 5030 is about 500 lbs heavier than 3720.


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## Piston

This really is an incredible thread! Thanks to all who have posted. 

I am very experienced and know a lot about tractors, however not a whole lot about plowing. My father has been plowing commercially (just him and his equipment and I occasionaly help) and he has numerous accounts, but got away from residentials for many of the reasons many people do. (they are pain with a full sized truck and no where to push the snow) 

I recently sent him this thread, and him and I read through it post by post. With my knowledge of tractors and equipment, and his knowledge and experience in plowing (35 yrs now) we have been tossing around the idea of possibly getting into the blower business. 

The main reason it wouldn't be too much of an investment for us, is because I have decided to buy a larger tractor (mine is 45hp) of around 80hp anyways, for many of the things I do. So to add a 10k blower wouldn't be too much of an investment. 

Just wanted to thank everyone for being so willing to share the information. I'm sure a lot of people think you can just jump in head first with a new 60k dollar setup but I know that is not the case. I figure if we start planning now, we could possibly be ready to go in another year. 

Thanks again and hopefully this thread will get going again now that winter is right around the corner. Thumbs Up


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## OrganicsL&L

Hey everyone, good to see this thread still going as it was instrumental in me jumping in to the tractor/blower game.

I was able to rent a tractor with an inverted for the winter, and have gone all in. So far I have about 36 clients and am still working on some marketing. Will try and post a few pics, though I have never done that on here, so it will probably take a while to figure it out. The tractor is a New Holland T5050 with a SHoule 92" inverted. 

Today was the first time out with it this season, and all I can say is "WOW", that sucker can move some snow. The tractor itself is nice, though probably not the set up I would purchase....it has levers down on the side of the seat for the chute/deflector....pretty difficult to use, but as the day progressed, I was definitely improving. I think I did actually do one driveway in under a minute....but I also realized that the majority of the driveways that I have are a bit more difficult than the simple 1 or 2 car wide straight driveways. Many of mine required me to back in, and then a ninety degree turn to back up to the garage.... quite a bit of extra work, but again, with some more practice, I'll have it figured. 

Ok, off to bed, have to get up at 3 and go do some salting!


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## Piston

Thanks for the update! That is great to hear your happy with the blower! 

I had been thinking about buying one of the new NH 4.75 tractors as an upgrade to my current tractor, and was hoping to be able to run a blower off of that, but I'm not sure if the 65pto HP would be enough for the SHoule 92". 

I have been thinking of buying the larger tractor regardless, and figured the extra cost of a blower wasn't all that much in the grand scheme of things, but now I'm second guessing if the 4.75 would have enough power in a decent storm. I look forward to some pics Thumbs Up


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## OrganicsL&L

I would say to go with the larger machine. This storm was nothing, so I certainly didn't push the power limits of the machine, looks like about 10 days of nothing here right now so I'm not sure when I'll be going out again. For now it will be more marketing! One thing I will say is that the machine with the blower is huge....at least in a driveway it is. It will take another time out for me to be comfortable in some of my tighter driveways.


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## Neige

Piston;1540702 said:


> Thanks for the update! That is great to hear your happy with the blower!
> 
> I had been thinking about buying one of the new NH 4.75 tractors as an upgrade to my current tractor, and was hoping to be able to run a blower off of that, but I'm not sure if the 65pto HP would be enough for the SHoule 92".
> 
> I have been thinking of buying the larger tractor regardless, and figured the extra cost of a blower wasn't all that much in the grand scheme of things, but now I'm second guessing if the 4.75 would have enough power in a decent storm. I look forward to some pics Thumbs Up


Hey Piston, a 65 pto HP will not be enough for the SHoule. That blower is also very heavy, I would recommend the Normand 82 inch, or go for a slightly bigger tractor and go for the Normand 92 inch. Chappell tractors has the 92 inch in stock.

Hey Rick glad to hear its working out, it will only get better.


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## Piston

Neige;1540731 said:


> Hey Piston, a 65 pto HP will not be enough for the SHoule. That blower is also very heavy, I would recommend the Normand 82 inch, or go for a slightly bigger tractor and go for the Normand 92 inch.


Neige, 
How well would a 65hp tractor (pto) handle the 82"?

Ideally, I'd like to go with a bigger tractor with bigger blower. However, any larger frame size than what I mentioned would be a bit too large for the other 3 seasons of the year for me. At least if I stuck with the tractor I'm planning on buying anways, and went with a smaller blower, if worst came to worst and the business didn't pan out, I could just keep the setup for personal use. Whereas if I had a larger tractor and blower, I'd have to sell it off for a pretty large loss most likely.


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## Neige

Piston;1540910 said:


> Neige,
> How well would a 65hp tractor (pto) handle the 82"?
> 
> Ideally, I'd like to go with a bigger tractor with bigger blower. However, any larger frame size than what I mentioned would be a bit too large for the other 3 seasons of the year for me. At least if I stuck with the tractor I'm planning on buying anways, and went with a smaller blower, if worst came to worst and the business didn't pan out, I could just keep the setup for personal use. Whereas if I had a larger tractor and blower, I'd have to sell it off for a pretty large loss most likely.


Sorry for taking so long to answer, we have been dealing with snow the last 3 days. A 65 hp tractor would handle the 82 with no problems at all. You will find very similar production rates on single wide drives, and on some double wides you may have to pass 4 times, instead of 3. All in all everyone who has bought the 82 have been very pleased.


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## Herm Witte

We use a 75 HP tractor, 65 at pto with no issues. Shoule inverted. Have not used out Normand inverted yet.


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## Piston

Neige;1542536 said:


> All in all everyone who has bought the 82 have been very pleased.


Thank you for the reply. At least you guys are getting some snow! I wouldn't be making too much money this year yet, but it's still early. My dad hasn't been out plowing once yet.


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## Piston

Herm Witte;1542614 said:


> We use a 75 HP tractor, 65 at pto with no issues. Shoule inverted. Have not used out Normand inverted yet.


Herm, 
What size SHoule?
The NH 4.75 is the same size as you speak of (HP wise anyways) and is the tractor I'm "planning" on buying.


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## Herm Witte

Piston;1542627 said:


> Herm,
> What size SHoule?
> The NH 4.75 is the same size as you speak of (HP wise anyways) and is the tractor I'm "planning" on buying.


92" Shoule. We will be using (when it snows) a T4.75 as well. Seems like a nice unit.


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## Piston

Thanks Herm, 
Please post on here if you don't mind on how you like the 4.75, I'm really interested to hear how it does with that blower. I just realized the 82" would be too small as it would not even cover the width of the tractor.


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## IMAGE

Piston;1540910 said:


> Neige,
> How well would a 65hp tractor (pto) handle the 82"?
> 
> Ideally, I'd like to go with a bigger tractor with bigger blower. However, any larger frame size than what I mentioned would be a bit too large for the other 3 seasons of the year for me. At least if I stuck with the tractor I'm planning on buying anways, and went with a smaller blower, if worst came to worst and the business didn't pan out, I could just keep the setup for personal use. Whereas if I had a larger tractor and blower, I'd have to sell it off for a pretty large loss most likely.


I have an 82" on a 55hp pto tractor and it handles it just fine. The tractor is a MF 3625, which is about the same size as a Kutoba 7040. It isn't lacking for power with the 82" blower at all.


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## PTSolutions

Its nice to see this thread still going strong! I'm happy others have benefited from it as much as I have. 

Was it Herm Witte that had a shop fab him up some shoes for this s492? I was trying to remember who it was cause they said they have the specs on it so that we could get a set fab'd.


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## Herm Witte

ProTouchGrounds;1543109 said:


> Its nice to see this thread still going strong! I'm happy others have benefited from it as much as I have.
> 
> Was it Herm Witte that had a shop fab him up some shoes for this s492? I was trying to remember who it was cause they said they have the specs on it so that we could get a set fab'd.


Ebling in Grand Rapids fabbed the shoes for my Shoule.


----------



## blowerman

I also had new shoes made at a local shop for my Normand blower... The idea sounded good, but after installing a new edge, the shoes were lower than the cutting edge. It might seem odd that to solve this problem, we spent about 10 minutes driving around our shop to burn down the shoes to match the edge.
Now, all works well. I changed from the UHMV edge back to metal. The idea is to last all season instead of needing to change out mid season. The ability to pick up snow has improved too. The 2" thick poly pushed more snow compared to the 1/2" metal. This improved the total time by about 5% as well as the clean up has improved. The only down fall so far is that the impeller housing is now closer to the ground and scrapes more on "rolling curbs." Perhaps the housing will need a patch. Not a big deal as it's my understanding that Herm and perhaps a few others have put a skid plate on their blowers.


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## Herm Witte

That's right Chris we did put a skid plate on the blower housing. Easy fix and easier than reparing the blower housing.

Merry Christmas to all!


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## PTSolutions

Whats a ballpark on the cost of having the shoes fabbed up? At first i wanted a metal edge but with the un level concrete drives we do the poly is more forgiving. I cant imagine a metal edge catching a 1"high slab. I use the poly edges as a selling point at the same time telling people poly edges on plows are very rare and the steel doesnt really do much if any damage, all about psychology.

Do the metal edges sit horizontal like an erskine skid blower?


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## Herm Witte

On our Shoule the metal edge comes in at an angle, maybe 45 degrees or so much like an ag three point hitch box blade. On our Normand the edge lays horizontal. The shoes talked about in an earlier post are designed much like those on a box plow, like a ski. This enables the blower to slide over uneven concrete.


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## Neige

For those of you that are interested, we made a video on how to change a poly cutting edge. If you forward to the 5 minuet mark it will show a very quick, inexpensive fix for skid shoes. On our Normand blowers we install them on the out side.




Happy Holidays to you all.
Paul


----------



## PTSolutions

Herm: I heard that Shoule redesigned the cutting edge from the 45* to the flat style about a year or 2 ago. I remembered Neige mentioning that the Shoules with the 45* edge cleaned the best but they changed the design due to them snagging uneeven surfaces.


----------



## Herm Witte

Yup, you are right. We "snagged" a man hole out of the ground last year. Bent the cutting edged and blower housing which Ebling repaired nicely and cost effectively. Employees paid the bill because they were doing a side job. Expensive side job for them but a lesson learned.


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## RAZOR

Here is the latest addtion that I got a few weeks ago.


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## Herm Witte

Looking good. Let us know how it works out.


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## blowerman

That is a sharp looking little unit. Would love to see action pics


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## Jsch2000

Nice machine! What kind of tires do you have on it? Were they a factory option? Please post some action pics.


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## newhere

i would sure like to see a video of that tractor blowing a 6-12" depth. I just cant bring myself to buy one for my 4720 yet.


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## RAZOR

Jsch2000;1558514 said:


> Nice machine! What kind of tires do you have on it? Were they a factory option? Please post some action pics.


They are Nokian tires. My dealer talked me into them and I'm happy he did. They give a smoother ride and a lot better traction. So far I have not had to use 4wd while snowblowing. Here is another pic of the new one with its friends.


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## newhere

how many drives does each tractor do?


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## RAZOR

newhere;1558638 said:


> how many drives does each tractor do?


Each tractor can do 25-30 driveways per hour but there are many thing that can effect the productivity. The amount of snow, traffic, parked cars, garbage cans/blue boxes in the way are just some of thing that can slow you down.


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## newhere

I meant how many total are you doing with each tractor, like 250 drives per tractor.


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## RAZOR

newhere;1560179 said:


> I meant how many total are you doing with each tractor, like 250 drives per tractor.


Around 100 per tractor. If I do more than that my route would take too long. Customers would not be able to get out to go to work in the mornings after the city plows pile a 4ft windrow at the end of their driveway.


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## Herm Witte

Piston;1542764 said:


> Thanks Herm,
> Please post on here if you don't mind on how you like the 4.75, I'm really interested to hear how it does with that blower. I just realized the 82" would be too small as it would not even cover the width of the tractor.


 Used the 4.75 with the Normand yesterday personally. I am not a regular operator at all but managed 12 - 15 residences per hour on snotty snow. Set up works well, however I will have the steel edges put back on.


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## Herm Witte

If you think I am slow with the above, I probably am. . Still a novice as a snowblower operator.


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## OrganicsL&L

Don't worry Herm, I can only average about 15 per hour, but mine are also still spread out a bit. Once they fill in I expect to be up to about 40 per hour.


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## PTSolutions

We are seeing about 20-25 per hour depending on traffic/time of service


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## tread lightly services

so are we talking srtictly tractors here or can this be done with skidsteers with snowblowers?


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## OrganicsL&L

tread lightly services;1561168 said:


> so are we talking srtictly tractors here or can this be done with skidsteers with snowblowers?


that is with a tractor an inverted blower they would be a lot faster because they can travel the roads without the need for a trailer


----------



## tread lightly services

OrganicsL&L;1561186 said:


> that is with a tractor an inverted blower they would be a lot faster because they can travel the roads without the need for a trailer


reason i ask is we do condos like 300 + driveways + the culdesac's

each is a real house, real driveway, only 4 duplexes. 5-15 driveways each culdesac.

done with 4 big bobcats with 88-100 inch buckets. s205, s870 and 2 s300. and a s100 for walks.

each driveway is 1-2 cars deep no longer all driveways are together..no roading to next job longer than 300 ft. 
condo assoc. probably going to want to do away with the buckets next year.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

If the drives are one car wide, you could probably get them all done with one tractor, but that would really be pushing it. Put two on site and you can do all driveways and roads....depending on how long the roads are. I would say that with an experienced operator(about 20 hrs of operation should do it) you could average close to 50 drives per hour per tractor, and then the roads, but those wouldn't take much time at all. Now you don't have to worry about stacking or moving snow in a heavy winter, and you only need 2 pieces of equipment on site for everything except sidewalks and salting.

Crunch your numbers, a 100hp tractor with the blower is in the neighborhood of $60K. But if you are getting a good number for this account, it could be well worth it.

Good luck!


----------



## tread lightly services

OrganicsL&L;1561210 said:


> If the drives are one car wide, you could probably get them all done with one tractor, but that would really be pushing it. Put two on site and you can do all driveways and roads....depending on how long the roads are. I would say that with an experienced operator(about 20 hrs of operation should do it) you could average close to 50 drives per hour per tractor, and then the roads, but those wouldn't take much time at all. Now you don't have to worry about stacking or moving snow in a heavy winter, and you only need 2 pieces of equipment on site for everything except sidewalks and salting.
> 
> Crunch your numbers, a 100hp tractor with the blower is in the neighborhood of $60K. But if you are getting a good number for this account, it could be well worth it.
> 
> Good luck!


thank you for the reply. each driveway is 2 cars wide about 20 driveways have a car parked smack dab in the middle of them, so they get skipped.:realmad:

driving between each culdesac is 30 sec or less in a skidloader. really really close. 
i guess my question is how would 4 large skid loaders with blowers compare time wise 
to 4 large skid loaders with 88-100" snow buckets?(assuming competent operators in each case) ussmileyflagtymusic


----------



## blowerman

tread lightly, 
that's a lot of man power and machines to clear a place. Most here (myself included) would agree a tractor with blower could knock that out in about 6 hours. To be safe, two tractors would be better, plus you'd have a back up. I've gone the skidloader/blower route, they work, just not as fast and the blowers are much weaker.
I'm just over in Milwaukee area and travel to Madison every few weeks for family, I'd be more than happy to visit, even take a look at the place and give you some insight on tractors with blowers or skidloader blower set ups. If you really want, come over and take a look or try our Kubota with Normand blower. Just PM if interested.


----------



## Piston

Herm Witte;1560234 said:


> Used the 4.75 with the Normand yesterday personally. I am not a regular operator at all but managed 12 - 15 residences per hour on snotty snow. Set up works well, however I will have the steel edges put back on.


Herm,
Thanks for posting an update! Did it seem like the 4.75 had sufficient power for the 92" SHoule?

Did it big down at all? I've read that the 4.75's are underrated and typically have closer to 70pto hp. Not sure if that's true or not though, but I figure it has to be, I read it on the Internet.


----------



## Herm Witte

Piston;1562239 said:


> Herm,
> Thanks for posting an update! Did it seem like the 4.75 had sufficient power for the 92" SHoule?
> 
> Did it big down at all? I've read that the 4.75's are underrated and typically have closer to 70pto hp. Not sure if that's true or not though, but I figure it has to be, I read it on the Internet.


Our snow was so minimal that the 4.75 really only idled while blowing out the drives. The Shoule is on another machine but I can not imagine any difference between the two.


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## snopushin ford

this thread makes me want to switch to blowing driveways. Its so tempting but it is also very risky. The customers around here would not know what i am talking about to get them to go for it. Whatwould be the minimum amount of income per season to justify using a tractor? I only have 20 driveways now (they average about 200' long, most with garage), and i really don't want anymore since i am using my pickup. But I think I could handle 50 with a tractor. And as backup i would still have my pickup and my brothers pickup. Any thoughts?? Thanks, Matt


----------



## RLM

We bought a tractor last year & so did a friend( he's owner/op). Both are JD 5101 with SHoule 92" blower. I have had a hell of a time though, the units are awesome productive, do a great job BUT finding qualified staffing has been the down side as no one know how to run it. Very frustrated at this point the current guy has hit two garage doors & a trim next to garage door, I'm hopeing it all happened the first time out & he has since gotten the hang of it. I ran it last season for the limited snow we had but I already run out all our salt, plow a after hours run & fill in as needed as a float driver/equipment operator so adding an additional 4 hour shift isn't realistic.


----------



## snopushin ford

RLM, thanks for that info. I would be the operator of the tractor (i am an equipment operator) The hard part for me to grasp is the cost of a tractor and blower, and then hoping people switch when they see a neat job. Any other thoughts? Matt


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## RLM

It definitly does a better job, neat edges, scrapes cleaner because the cutting edge has a lot more weight on it. If I were only an owner/op definitly the way to go. And this definitly isn't a "new issue" to me. It's the problem with this business, there really isn't a good way to see if someone is being truthful & truly knows how to run equipment or not...until it snows then your kinda stuck with them. I don't claim to be an "equipment operator" but I find I can hop in anything I own (loader, skidsteer, plow trucks, tractor) and be ussually more efficient than most of the guys that claim to be, it's kinda disheartening.
Ussually I find I have to go through 3 guys to find a "keeper", but once I find that guy you can tell, they fit right in.


----------



## snopushin ford

Ha, I know what you mean, we have people that claim to operate equipment ( I operate a grader doing road work) and usually within 10 minutes I can tell if they have it or not. And unfortunately many do not have it. Do you do seasonal contracts, or per event? Thanks


----------



## BlackIrish

RLM;1563030 said:


> We bought a tractor last year & so did a friend( he's owner/op). Both are JD 5101 with SHoule 92" blower. I have had a hell of a time though, the units are awesome productive, do a great job BUT finding qualified staffing has been the down side as no one know how to run it. Very frustrated at this point the current guy has hit two garage doors & a trim next to garage door, I'm hopeing it all happened the first time out & he has since gotten the hang of it. I ran it last season for the limited snow we had but I already run out all our salt, plow a after hours run & fill in as needed as a float driver/equipment operator so adding an additional 4 hour shift isn't realistic.


I have guys who live out in the country on small acreage who have/had a tractor, guys that grew up on farms, farmers & landscapers.
I've been thru a boatload of guys over the years but 7 tractors are always staffed. 
Wizardly good operators are rare.
We set up a training course at our shop to run wannabees thru their paces.
Easier to weed out the dummies in October before it snows, and knocking over plywood and safety cones costs nothing.
But smarts has a lot to do with it. My smart as a whip office mgr had to fill in as tractor operator a few years ago.
No training, no pre driving the route. 
He was the second quickest out of 6 on his first storm.


----------



## RLM

snopushin ford;1563159 said:


> Ha, I know what you mean, we have people that claim to operate equipment ( I operate a grader doing road work) and usually within 10 minutes I can tell if they have it or not. And unfortunately many do not have it. Do you do seasonal contracts, or per event? Thanks


Most drives here are on a seasonal basis.


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## RLM

BlackIrish;1563206 said:


> I have guys who live out in the country on small acreage who have/had a tractor, guys that grew up on farms, farmers & landscapers.
> I've been thru a boatload of guys over the years but 7 tractors are always staffed.
> Wizardly good operators are rare.
> We set up a training course at our shop to run wannabees thru their paces.
> Easier to weed out the dummies in October before it snows, and knocking over plywood and safety cones costs nothing.
> But smarts has a lot to do with it. My smart as a whip office mgr had to fill in as tractor operator a few years ago.
> No training, no pre driving the route.
> He was the second quickest out of 6 on his first storm.


I live out in the country, we have 9 acres of what was a 250 acre apple farm. However most of the farms around are VERY large the guys that bought up most of the farm we live on are adding 200+ acres a year I think & farm close to 5000 acres, so that really doesn't help me, first they make enough durring their season why would they want to bother second running a 8 wheel articulated tractor with a 30' disk in a 100 acre field is night & day from running a snowblower inches from a building, not that they couldn't do it, but very different. I've gotten to know one of the brothers a bit, they are probably in their 50's maybe early 60's. His nephews work for them but he doesn't speak to great of them, I've met the a couple of the kids, they are nice enough but again I think they'd rather be out on their sleds than in a tractor snowblowing.


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## BlackIrish

So wouldn't the mega farms have staff that was either laid off or had lots of 
free time in the winter and could do snow for you ?


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## RLM

BlackIrish;1564187 said:


> So wouldn't the mega farms have staff that was either laid off or had lots of
> free time in the winter and could do snow for you ?


I dont think so, they make real good money "in season". lots if new tractors every year or two, all new trucks, etc. we moved out here 8 years ago in that time they have built two barns (both probably 100x150) bought 4 new 8 wheel tractors, 4 large straight frame tractors (smallest is a 170 hp), two combines with corn & wheat heads, built couple new grain drying units, ran a natural gas line (probably 4-6") at least 1/2 mile down the road. From my understanding it is three siblings that now run the operation, two brothers & sister runs paperwork, and their kids, spouses help as needed, I've seen the brothers wives driving the tractors. Kids live in farm houses on farms they have bought up, completly remodeled of course & drive new trucks as well. It's all row crops (corn, wheat, soybeans) VERY large equipment, amazing how fast they can clear a field. There is a website where uou can look up farm subsidies (standard payments to farmers), they have gotten almost 2 million in last 10 years just in that program, without anything else. The money they would make working for me to them is a joke.


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## newhere

2 million in 10 years isnt paying for much considering what your describing is in the 10's of million in 2 years. 

Shoot 2 combines and 4 heads will put you over 2 mil. 

Farmers make damn good money and they work hard and risk everything they have on it.


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## RLM

That's just subsidies in one program, no doubt they make real good money. When corn went through the roof a couple years ago......they had a lot planted, they know their stuff, lots of experience and lots of time which to means lots of time to accrue "wealth"( land, equipment, knowledge, etc.) That's why I say why would they be "on call" all winter to make a few thousand maybe ?


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## newhere

Oh no i agree with you 100%.


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## MogMan

Just posted 2 inverted blower snow removal vids. Some POV action.


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## Golfpro21

cool vids, what kind of cam you using, they are super clear and no vibration


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## MogMan

Golfpro21;1577160 said:


> cool vids, what kind of cam you using, they are super clear and no vibration


That's a GoPro Hero3, cheap edition.

One vid is in 720p and the other is in 1080p

I have a bunch of sticker mount on the tractor. The one used in the vids are on top of one of the 3-point cylinder and the other is on top of the chute.

I was afraid that they wouldn't hold up to the vibration of our ******-up streets but they do quite well.


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## blowerman

Nice pic MogMan... Did the tractor replace the Mog? I'd post some pics or videos, but we are really down on the snow this season.


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## MogMan

blowerman;1577479 said:


> Nice pic MogMan... Did the tractor replace the Mog? I'd post some pics or videos, but we are really down on the snow this season.


The mog is now my spare rig. The tractor is so much better. Tractor is slower to get there but once there, way faster with the NH. The ergonomics of the controls and the view from the cab are awesome, I cut down close to an hour on my route.

I may convert my mog to a gritter, like the brits say. If I could only find one of those expensive Schmidt salter.


----------



## rusty loads

Don't do it!-You will ruin the mog with a gritter. I parked mine. So you went tractor? Did common sense get a hold of you? Good to see you are thriving.


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## newhere

Has any one ever looked into a JCB fast trac ?


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## newhere

If they made a fast trac about half the size, articulated steering, full abs, suspension and a jump seat for the shoveler all at 45mph. Wow i would own three of them tomorrow! 

The size is the big draw back, to darn big.


----------



## excav8ter

Has anyone here ever had any experience with a Reist single stage blower? Specifically a hydraulic driven one? I wonder how they would work on a my Takeuchi TL130, for blowing some drives and 4-6 car parking areas that are a pain to get at with my current rig.


----------



## blowerman

Take a pass on the Reist blower. While the idea might sound good, there are better options available.
Considering the speed at which the blower is spinning, just imagine what happens when something hits the auger and bounces back out. 
I'm probably not the only one that's bought a garage panel or two because metal or wood flew through the blower. I'd stick with a convention skidloader blower of Normand/Pronovost models.


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## excav8ter

Ok... thanks. I will stick with my FFC blower for now.....I don't have a high flow machine. I am hoping to add a Toolcat that I can plow the roads and small parking lots with , and then switch to a blower to finish up the places where the blower would be the best way to clear the snow and drifts.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

First year with the blower....working great. Here's a video:


----------



## MogMan

OrganicsL&L;1581681 said:


> First year with the blower....working great. Here's a video:


Great vid !

Were you running it in the turtle gears or hare gears in that vid ?

Felt like you could have went faster a bit.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

I definitely could have gone much faster. It was my 2nd time out and had been going for about 20 hours total  so i was in slow mode at that point. THis was filmed about a month ago, so I can't remember the range, but at most it was mid range and 1st or 2nd gear. That driveway should take a total of 2 minutes to wrap up instead of the 4+ in the vid.

I have found that the tractor/blower combo is incredibly fast. I have been using it on my commercials and have cut the time down by about 1/2 to remove the snow(doesn't include salting etc). While there is a learning curve, once you clear that hurdle, it is unbeatable in the right applications.


----------



## excav8ter

For those of you who blow private roads... or even long driveways.....how fast can you run while blowing snow? Maybe figuring that the snow is 3"-6" deep....


----------



## MogMan

excav8ter;1582501 said:


> For those of you who blow private roads... or even long driveways.....how fast can you run while blowing snow? Maybe figuring that the snow is 3"-6" deep....


I would say 12km/h 12th gear out of 16. Could def go faster but safety first like they say. Snow on the ground while blowing havent slowed me down yet (6inches or less)


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## OrganicsL&L

Yeah, 5-10 mph is realistic, depending on the snow and operator. Also, if u go too fast, it may not scrape as clean


----------



## Neige

Nice video, absolutely you can go faster, but its difficult when someone is standing around taking the vids. Here is one going faster, in very wet snow. Its also an older blower, with the new Normand's you can go faster because of the larger fan it can handle more volume.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

That video has to be considered one of your ''classics" now Paul! It was that and the one where you hit 5 driveways in 5 minutes that sold me! If you look again at that video, I actually shifted gears at about the 2;50 mark, but I must have been in the low range because it was still slow.

That was about an 8-10" storm, and as I said, I think it was my 2nd or 3rd at most time out with the tractor. I still didn't know what she could do! Also, that was the first time I was doing that driveway as they called during the storm. At this time, i usually run in mid range and either 3rd or 4th gear which puts me in the 7-10mph range. The tractor/blower can easily handle the snow at those speeds, it is usually dependent on the spot that I am working in. A tight driveway and I go a little slower, but a big one like that or on my commercial lots, definitely closer to 10mph.

Here is a link to a pic of a very difficult drive....mainly due to the steep hill, sometimes I have to creep up in 4wd with the rear diff. locked....or even drive up with out the blower on and blow on my way down the hill! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...6728705.-2207520000.1359728376&type=3&theater


----------



## Neige

Wow you have some nice snow on the ground. That client must be thrilled, there are no piles anywhere, and drive is cut so nice and clean. Keep up the pics and videos, there are never enough of them.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

That pic is from New Years day, we are now bare....those 60 degree temps 2 days ago killed our snow cover....just plow/blower piles. Looking at more snow Sunday though.

All of my customers have been really happy with the finished product. I have been getting at least 1 email per storm thanking me for the "great work" and timliness of service. Already working on my marketing plan for next year!


----------



## excav8ter

So i did a quick drive through of the subdivision where i want to put a blower to work. Currently, it's about 18 miles of plowing. Approximately 2.7 miles of blacktop, that is 20'-32' wide, about 4 trips each way plus cleaning up around the corners (which there are a lot of), i figure i put on 18-20 miles before I do 30 or so drives. Plenty of room to put snow, but drifting is a huge problem. The parking a driveway around the front of the clubhouse is a circle drive, very tight with no room for snow, i have to use my Ebling and drag it several hundred feet to an open field where i can stack it up. Next year they are probably going to open up another section which will add about another 6-8 miles of road work.

What tractor models, specifically, should i look at? I would like to run an 7-8' blower if possible.....canit be done with a 60hp tractor? 

Anyone using Artix blowers? I would like the option of blowing in reverse as well as driving forward.

Thanks.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

pm me an address and I can google earth it for you. I would say the 60hp machine would be a little light to get it done. You want something like a Kubota m100x or comparable. The Pronovost PXPL is probably your best bet on the bi directional blower....I think the artix is a level below the Pronovost/Normand/SHoule and from what you are saying, you have a good amount to do in one storm. The roads will be a piece of cake, but I would need to see your tight areas. You could pull the snow out of the circle area and still blow it to where you want it.


----------



## DGODGR

OrganicsL&L;1585385 said:


> ....The Pronovost PXPL is probably your best bet on the bi directional blower....I think the artix is a level below the Pronovost/Normand/SHoule and from what you are saying, you have a good amount to do in one storm.
> 
> 
> 
> Organics, can you please provide supporting evidence/ comments about this statement? I would like to know how you reached that opinion.
Click to expand...


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Just from reading things on various sites. Don't have time to go back and cite them for you, so if you are considering them, do your due diligence and take it from there.


----------



## blowerman

OrganicsL&L;1585721 said:


> Just from reading things on various sites. Don't have time to go back and cite them for you, so if you are considering them, do your due diligence and take it from there.


I'll add to this post: Lots of info on each brand blower and why, just research this thread and others. If you have a specific question, post away and we'll answer.


----------



## newhere

Ok blower experts, ive got a question for you all......


If i put a blower on my deere i wanted to run it off the loader functions so everything would be on one "stick" and its the most comfortable lever. All the functions are pressured except loader arm down. As gravity takes the arms down. Could i just mount a spring on the deflector so the spring naturally wants to pull the flap down and then the hydro power would push it open and stretch the spring?


----------



## IMAGE

newhere;1586413 said:


> Ok blower experts, ive got a question for you all......
> 
> If i put a blower on my deere i wanted to run it off the loader functions so everything would be on one "stick" and its the most comfortable lever. All the functions are pressured except loader arm down. As gravity takes the arms down. Could i just mount a spring on the deflector so the spring naturally wants to pull the flap down and then the hydro power would push it open and stretch the spring?


I'm sure you could if you wanted, anything can be accomplished. I probably wouldn't hassel with it since the levers are right there and easy to get used to also. But if you really wanted to, anything is possible.


----------



## IMAGE

Here is a quick video of a 55 PTO HP tractor with an 82" Normand blowing some windrowed snow. The driver could of went faster if he wanted, he wasn't lacking for power. He's just kinda pokey sometimes.






I'll try to upload another one this evening that shows it better, and shows the scraping job it does, along with some commentary. I've got to run and scape some apartment lots down first.


----------



## Neige

newhere;1586413 said:


> Ok blower experts, ive got a question for you all......
> 
> If i put a blower on my deere i wanted to run it off the loader functions so everything would be on one "stick" and its the most comfortable lever. All the functions are pressured except loader arm down. As gravity takes the arms down. Could i just mount a spring on the deflector so the spring naturally wants to pull the flap down and then the hydro power would push it open and stretch the spring?


Are you sure you cannot put down pressure when using down on the loader arm. Usually you have the option of float which you have mentioned, and down pressure.


----------



## Neige

IMAGE;1586745 said:


> Here is a quick video of a 55 PTO HP tractor with an 82" Normand blowing some windrowed snow. The driver could of went faster if he wanted, he wasn't lacking for power. He's just kinda pokey sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll try to upload another one this evening that shows it better, and shows the scraping job it does, along with some commentary. I've got to run and scape some apartment lots down first.


Very nice Steve the tractor did not even work hard, nice set up. Thumbs Up


----------



## IMAGE

Neige;1586770 said:


> Very nice Steve the tractor did not even work hard, nice set up. Thumbs Up


Thanks Paul :salute: Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday. I'll give you a call in a little bit here. :waving:


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Steve, just curious, why not blow the whole road instead of the double step? Even if you could only reach the other side of the road on your first pass, you could clean it all up when you make the final pass.

Not criticizing, just wondering what the thought process is behind your method.


----------



## blowerman

From my knowledge, the loader function should be able to run both the chute and deflector with full pressure all ways. Because you typically are turned to the right, looking backwards often, I'd think the rear levers would work fine.
That's a nice looking little Massey Steve, glad it's working...


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## RAZOR

There is note in my Kubota owners manual about using the loader control. It say not to connect a motor to the right-left (dump and curl with a bucket) ports. This is the "regeneration position" and will damage the seals of a motor. Maybe it just Kubota that does it this way. If you connect it to the other ports and the cylinder to those ports it should work.


----------



## excav8ter

There was a post early on about an Anderson dual opening snow blower.....has anyone had any experiences with those? I i give up the development i am doing now, and go after strictly residential drives, and inverted blower will be just fine. But if i keep my current development with all the roads, a dual opening blower will be needed when, if, it drifts bad perhaps switching to blowing will all but eliminate the drifting issue. A Pronovost PXPL would be the ticket if you could blow both ways. The Anderson looks like a solid unit, and it doesn't have snow spilling out the back, while you are driving forward. The Arctix is another choice but, again i don't find to much info on them, but seeing the snow spilling out the backside bothers me a little bit.


----------



## excav8ter

I also started a thread in the "equipment,tool and vehicles pictures" section.... if you feel like sharing pics or videos of your set up, that would be great.....cab interior pics, front and side view pic and walk around videos would be GREAT.


----------



## blowerman

To help you understand the pxpl. It's does not blow snow both ways. The back drag blade is for pulling back snow from doors or tight areas. As far as going forward, great, but if you are doing roads, I still prefer a plow. Even with good drivers, hook a man hole or curb with a blower and you have bigger problems. I've had my pxpl at the frame straighten shop due to someone catching a curb. 
Plows have a little more give. We have windrowed the snow to the side of the street and then blew away the piles. A more versitle set up would be a 80-100 hp tractor, inverted blower with a plow on front of tractor.


----------



## IMAGE

OrganicsL&L;1586782 said:


> Steve, just curious, why not blow the whole road instead of the double step? Even if you could only reach the other side of the road on your first pass, you could clean it all up when you make the final pass.
> 
> Not criticizing, just wondering what the thought process is behind your method.


Well, first off, I wanted the video blowing windrowed snow with only 55hp. Thumbs Up

And second, it's very quick to run down with the plow to make the windrow. I haven't timed it, but I'm sure it's faster then 4 passes with the tractor blowing.



blowerman;1587914 said:


> To help you understand the pxpl. It's does not blow snow both ways. The back drag blade is for pulling back snow from doors or tight areas. As far as going forward, great, but if you are doing roads, I still prefer a plow. Even with good drivers, hook a man hole or curb with a blower and you have bigger problems. I've had my pxpl at the frame straighten shop due to someone catching a curb.
> Plows have a little more give. We have windrowed the snow to the side of the street and then blew away the piles. A more versitle set up would be a 80-100 hp tractor, inverted blower with a plow on front of tractor.


Agreed. I'd like to get a plow on the front of a blower tractor. I know of a guy with a Boss V on his and it's a great setup from the looks of it.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

IMAGE;1588219 said:


> Well, first off, I wanted the video blowing windrowed snow with only 55hp. Thumbs Up
> 
> And second, it's very quick to run down with the plow to make the windrow. I haven't timed it, but I'm sure it's faster then 4 passes with the tractor blowing.
> 
> Makes sense, and the 55hp did very well there...thanks!


----------



## Herm Witte

"Even with good drivers, hook a man hole or curb with a blower and you have bigger problems. I've had my pxpl at the frame..."

We ripped a manhole out of the ground last year and caught another this year. Both a result of cleaning up the roadway. Please comment on your procedures to avoid this from happening. Of course our operators were excellent.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

calling for 16-24" here Friday morning into Saturday afternoon.....gonna get to really test the tractor/blower this weekend!


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## excav8ter

OrganicsL&L;1588955 said:


> calling for 16-24" here Friday morning into Saturday afternoon.....gonna get to really test the tractor/blower this weekend!


Good luck Rick.....take some more pics and videos....


----------



## blowerman

I'm the first to admit, I don't know how to solve the problem. (specific to a blower with steel edge)
I hooked the right (passenger side) side of the pxpl blowing snow moving in a forward direction.
After snagging an object hidden in the snow, the whole housing bent back about 1/2' plus.
In snow pusher world this would be nothing, but when you have bearings and pto shafts spinning, bigger problems will come up soon without repair.
We welded in a temporary back brace to stabilize the housing and keep in from bending more. Then as spring hit, dropped off the Bi-Drive and pxpl at a from straightening shop for semi trucks. They chain down the tractor and blower to platform, perfection is just a few pulls away.
The shop cuts out any braces holding the right side, laser aligns the blower, measures all parts of the housing and machine, re-checks the movement of the pull back blade, (with the bend, it gets bound up)
smooth as silk, straight as a arrow. Now they re-weld in newly fabricated braces and touch up the paint.
For the sum of: $700


----------



## excav8ter

The bending would be my concern too.... with 30-50 manholes that are above grade, it's a huge concern.....i have a pretty good system for marking the manholes. 5 years plowing this development, and no damage so far....definitely have to go slower on the roads, which, with a plow, prevents us from getting the snow thrown over the existing snow banks. That's why i am thinking of blowing EVERYTHING out here. I would be the only operator of the tractor/blower set up. Not that i am the best, but i do know these roads better than anyone....but if the condo associations keep getting cheaper, i am going to tell them to find someone else.


----------



## blowerman

I might have posted similar pics, but here are a few for samples.
The plastic edge has a little more give. Example is on a Normand inverted blower, but picture shows when it wears down you can/will rip 'em off.
This year I am running it with a metal edge. 160 double/triple drives per time and after 7 clearings the metal is almost gone. (try to take pics next week)
The second pic, PXPL after the repair. 
Black brace is the new one put in. If I can get uploads of the bended bars, they will get posted soon. After frame straightening, this was the new brace they made for us.
After hooking the ground, bottom of housing had bent back. They cut out the brace shown in black and removed the others to be welded back after the frame was brought back to true.
The black bar is about 1.5 times the size of the original. Like alot of guys here. we improve on weak spots.


----------



## mnlefty

blowerman;1589740 said:


> The plastic edge has a little more give. Example is on a Normand inverted blower, but picture shows when it wears down you can/will rip 'em off.
> This year I am running it with a metal edge. 160 double/triple drives per time and after 7 clearings the metal is almost gone.


The double and triple drives... safe to assume their something like the ones in your first vids with the PXPL on the bi-directional? Maybe even the same ones?

How long did the Tivar edge go for you? Started with 2" stock?


----------



## excav8ter

Blowerman....am I correct in understanding that the cutting edge only lasts for about 7 plowable events? I thought steel would last longer.....but is scraping the driveway a concern with a steel cutting edge? I worry about scratching, and leaving rust streaks on driveways with my Ebling, due to the pressure i need to put down to clear it well.


----------



## IMAGE

On your Normand with the steel edge did you already flip it? The holes are centered, so you can dip it once to start fresh. If you haven't wore it down too far before flipping, gotta have some holes left. 

For people worried about rust stains, but wanting a good steel scrape, we can supply Stainless Steel cutting edges.


----------



## blowerman

The edge has not been flipped. Instead, it's going to get replaced with a new one. (We have a spare) Since I was out of town for this last storm, my guess is the Normand has ran 160 drives 8 or 9 times. It's pretty much down to nothing and easier to torch off the bolts and put in the new edge with new bolts. While I worry about scraping, by switching back to the 1/2" steel over a 2" poly, the blower cleans up better. Face it, I don't have a single competitor around that even knows what a inverted blower is, let alone a uhmv blade.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

OrganicsL&L;1588955 said:


> calling for 16-24" here Friday morning into Saturday afternoon.....gonna get to really test the tractor/blower this weekend!


Well, they were a little off....we ended up with about 32" on this monster. The blower performed flawlessly. It really chewed up the snow and no doubt was way faster than doing all of that work with a plow!

I've had about 5 hours of sleep since Friday morning, so going to hit the hay....need a loader at an account at 5 am for the 7 feet of snow that built up behind the mail trucks and under an overhang....no way to get at it until the mailmen/women get in to move the trucks!

This was one hell of a storm!

Pics and vids in a few days.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Ok, first video. Finally completely finished. I actually had just done a loose gravel driveway and had the blower set to sit about an inch above the surface and forgot to re set to drop all the way....which is why I went over it twice. As you'll see the blower easily sucked up the 30" of snow not to mention the windrow left by the plows.






I have a few more to upload, along with some pics...


----------



## excav8ter

OrganicsL&L;1595388 said:


> Ok, first video. Finally completely finished. I actually had just done a loose gravel driveway and had the blower set to sit about an inch above the surface and forgot to re set to drop all the way....which is why I went over it twice. As you'll see the blower easily sucked up the 30" of snow not to mention the windrow left by the plows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a few more to upload, along with some pics...


Wow Rick...that is pretty impressive...glad you made it through the storm ok. Thumbs Up


----------



## excav8ter

This is what I feel I would need for a blower. It would be great to be able to back into the deep drifts if I need to, or just treat it like an inverted, and drive forward....





Does anyone have any experience with these?


----------



## newhere

Wow! that thing is NICE! like a PXPL but better.


----------



## StuveCorp

OrganicsL&L;1595388 said:


> Ok, first video. Finally completely finished. I actually had just done a loose gravel driveway and had the blower set to sit about an inch above the surface and forgot to re set to drop all the way....which is why I went over it twice. As you'll see the blower easily sucked up the 30" of snow not to mention the windrow left by the plows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a few more to upload, along with some pics...


That was sooo fully awesome! Thumbs Up Sucks to do on a busy road though...


----------



## excav8ter

newhere;1595524 said:


> Wow! that thing is NICE! like a PXPL but better.


I cant seem to find any info on it though.....


----------



## Schuley

excav8ter;1595662 said:


> I cant seem to find any info on it though.....


I believe that one is an Anderson blowe. I cant find anyrhing on it. Artix makes one too. I think Neige has a couple?


----------



## excav8ter

I thought so....but a Google search only gets me a link the a YouTube video titled Groupe Mydare Soufluer....or something like that.


----------



## Golfpro21

OrganicsL&L;1595388 said:


> Ok, first video. Finally completely finished. I actually had just done a loose gravel driveway and had the blower set to sit about an inch above the surface and forgot to re set to drop all the way....which is why I went over it twice. As you'll see the blower easily sucked up the 30" of snow not to mention the windrow left by the plows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a few more to upload, along with some pics...


great video

what impeller size does that blower have, 26" or 28"

what speed/range are you blowing in

thanks


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Here is another video of me working on a big drift at the entrance to our post office. Not really the best application for an inverted, but I don't usually have to do this. I think it worked pretty well on it. I had to go slow because I was right up next to the building and didn't want to do any damage!






Still have a couple more to post...


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Golfpro21;1595727 said:


> great video
> 
> what impeller size does that blower have, 26" or 28"
> 
> what speed/range are you blowing in
> 
> thanks


I believe it is the 28" impeller...will go out and measure later. I was in mid range probably in 1st or second gear. I was going a little slower on this one because I was down to my last shear pin and didn't want to bust it. I actually only had 3 go from early Friday morning through the end of the day on Sunday....a total of about 300 driveways(all visits), and 4 commercial lots visited multiple times.


----------



## mnlefty

excav8ter;1595662 said:


> I cant seem to find any info on it though.....


This page has been around for quite some time...

http://www.farmerssealedstorage.com/products/snow-removal/anderson-blower/

I believe the 'Anderson' and 'Artix' are the same company... the blower in the video is the previous model, the ones Neige has are the most current version. It seems like they had it nailed with the older one though...


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## OrganicsL&L

My last video of the day....a view of the blower from inside the cab w/back window open:


----------



## blowerman

Those are some great action shots Organic L&L...
You almost make me feel bad as I haven't taken a single video this season.
I've noticed the the Artix snowblower keeps coming up in a few posts?
I believe Neige has touched briefly on them, with out being overly critical but they were having some issues. Sometimes less moving parts and a more simple design win out.


----------



## excav8ter

blowerman;1595880 said:


> Those are some great action shots Organic L&L...
> You almost make me feel bad as I haven't taken a single video this season.
> I've noticed the the Artix snowblower keeps coming up in a few posts?
> I believe Neige has touched briefly on them, with out being overly critical but they were having some issues. Sometimes less moving parts and a more simple design win out.


I agree on the simplicity thing....I ask about them because that tyoe of bower would be ideal for my situation. A PXPL from Pronovost would be fine...but I would never justify a Bi-directional carrier. That's why I brought it up. ..I should p.m. Neige and get his thoughts directly and confidentially.


----------



## newhere

I sure would like to know what a 72" cost????


----------



## blowerman

newhere;1596010 said:


> I sure would like to know what a 72" cost????


A 72 " what?

Top of the line blower? 
Economy unit?
Inverted?
Skid loader set up?


----------



## OrganicsL&L

blowerman;1595880 said:


> Those are some great action shots Organic L&L...
> You almost make me feel bad as I haven't taken a single video this season.
> I've noticed the the Artix snowblower keeps coming up in a few posts?
> I believe Neige has touched briefly on them, with out being overly critical but they were having some issues. Sometimes less moving parts and a more simple design win out.


I had to drag my 15 year old son out with me to take them.....then he conveniently shoveled out some of the drifts that I couldn't get to! But I also let him run the tractor so he was happy!


----------



## newhere

blowerman;1596023 said:


> A 72 " what?
> 
> Top of the line blower?
> Economy unit?
> Inverted?
> Skid loader set up?


Sorry, I was referring to the bi-direction Anderson/artix


----------



## StuveCorp

OrganicsL&L;1595762 said:


> I believe it is the 28" impeller...will go out and measure later. I was in mid range probably in 1st or second gear. I was going a little slower on this one because I was down to my last shear pin and didn't want to bust it. I actually only had 3 go from early Friday morning through the end of the day on Sunday....a total of about 300 driveways(all visits), and 4 commercial lots visited multiple times.


This is probably a dumb question but is it pretty common to go thru a lot of shear bolts? Does it take long to replace it?


----------



## OrganicsL&L

It is common, and it really takes me less than 5 minutes to replace it. I have gotten better at operating the machine and have learned how to avoid shearing them, but every once in a while it happens. I just keep a bunch with me, no big deal.


----------



## StuveCorp

OrganicsL&L;1596539 said:


> It is common, and it really takes me less than 5 minutes to replace it. I have gotten better at operating the machine and have learned how to avoid shearing them, but every once in a while it happens. I just keep a bunch with me, no big deal.


That is what I was hoping to hear. Did you get any additional clients that now see the value of your setup after that big storm?


----------



## Neige

Great Vids Rick, I think you just showed how efficient these blowers can really be. That was serious snow and the tractor / blower breezed through it. Even the drift you removed so quickly, it is always impressive to see how much snow you can get rid of. The best part is when you were done there were no piles to speak of. Thumbs Up I also noticed that you have become very comfortable and familiar with the set up.
I want to address the Artix bidirectional blower. I still have 3 brand new ones in stock, that have been modified, because the original was a flop. I will not even attempt to sell them to anyone, until I have tried them out, and even then I really do not want to put my name behind them. I most likely will sell them at your own risk for around 6 grand and I am taking a big loss on that. 
Now back to Organics, and his vids and pictures.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

StuveCorp;1596549 said:


> That is what I was hoping to hear. Did you get any additional clients that now see the value of your setup after that big storm?


I did pick up a bunch of one time jobs, but it is getting a little late in the season for people to switch. I have gotten a lot of attention, so I am very confident that when it comes time to market next year, I will easily fill up my route. My current clients are thrilled with the service(not just the snow blowing aspect but the SERVICE!) and are really adding to the buzz that is happening around town.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Neige;1596581 said:


> Great Vids Rick, I think you just showed how efficient these blowers can really be. That was serious snow and the tractor / blower breezed through it. Even the drift you removed so quickly, it is always impressive to see how much snow you can get rid of. The best part is when you were done there were no piles to speak of. Thumbs Up I also noticed that you have become very comfortable and familiar with the set up.
> I want to address the Artix bidirectional blower. I still have 3 brand new ones in stock, that have been modified, because the original was a flop. I will not even attempt to sell them to anyone, until I have tried them out, and even then I really do not want to put my name behind them. I most likely will sell them at your own risk for around 6 grand and I am taking a big loss on that.
> Now back to Organics, and his vids and pictures.


Thanks Paul, I am pretty comfortable with the machine at this point. On those drifts, they were up on a side walk and obviously close to a building, but I just took my time with it. I think the video was a little over 7min long, and that was a lot of snow. No doubt that blower was way faster. If I had to plow that same job, I would have had to be there 3-4 times. With the blower, I was there twice on Friday, before the storm got really bad, and when they shut down for the weekend, I let it go until Sund ay. I would say that to do the parking lot it took me about 45 min. with about 2 feet of snow. The lot is 25k sq. feet. Plowing that amount of snow would have been 2hrs to get it as clean as the blower, so the time savings was huge!

It all started watching you videos Paul, so a big THANK YOU! Also thanks for your "in storm" support!


----------



## MogMan

StuveCorp;1596523 said:


> This is probably a dumb question but is it pretty common to go thru a lot of shear bolts? Does it take long to replace it?


I went through 2 on the pto shaft and 4 on the blower side this year. 2 man hole covers and the rest was because of baseball size rocks jamming the impeller. Oh yeah, also, an oven door.

Easy to change


----------



## MogMan

OrganicsL&L;1595388 said:


> Ok, first video. Finally completely finished. I actually had just done a loose gravel driveway and had the blower set to sit about an inch above the surface and forgot to re set to drop all the way....which is why I went over it twice. As you'll see the blower easily sucked up the 30" of snow not to mention the windrow left by the plows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a few more to upload, along with some pics...


For what it's worth, when I get a big snow bank left by the muni, I prefer to blow it going IN the driveway, this way there is less spillage on the road


----------



## OrganicsL&L

MogMan;1596866 said:


> For what it's worth, when I get a big snow bank left by the muni, I prefer to blow it going IN the driveway, this way there is less spillage on the road


That is a good idea and we usually do that when we can blow all the way in and turn around...in the name of speed, when we don't have room to turn around while in the driveway, we do it the way I did it here. Usually the spillage isn't a problem because the roads are still somewhat snow covered....much more noticeable when they are not though.

Thanks for the tip!


----------



## blowerman

StuveCorp;1596523 said:


> This is probably a dumb question but is it pretty common to go thru a lot of shear bolts? Does it take long to replace it?


Since the snows have been light this year, not many shears. I believe its maybe 3 total. Like everyone else said, easy fix. Sometimes we just change out the bolts after every couple of rounds. (maybe 3 or 4 events)


----------



## Golfpro21

I went thru alot of bolts last year, but this year I have only gone thru 1, and it was at the tractor end, it simply came loose over time and fell off.

I now use the nylon nuts and they rarely even loosen off.

Making sure the pto is on before the blower hits any snow makes a difference also


----------



## Golfpro21

Neige;1596581 said:


> Great Vids Rick, I think you just showed how efficient these blowers can really be. That was serious snow and the tractor / blower breezed through it. Even the drift you removed so quickly, it is always impressive to see how much snow you can get rid of. The best part is when you were done there were no piles to speak of. Thumbs Up I also noticed that you have become very comfortable and familiar with the set up.
> I want to address the Artix bidirectional blower. I still have 3 brand new ones in stock, that have been modified, because the original was a flop. I will not even attempt to sell them to anyone, until I have tried them out, and even then I really do not want to put my name behind them. I most likely will sell them at your own risk for around 6 grand and I am taking a big loss on that.
> Now back to Organics, and his vids and pictures.


Hi Paul

In your expert opinion, what are the faults of this blower over say a normand or prono inverted blower?

thanks on advance
Mike


----------



## BladeBlowBucket

OrganicsL&L;1596893 said:


> That is a good idea and we usually do that when we can blow all the way in and turn around...in the name of speed, when we don't have room to turn around while in the driveway, we do it the way I did it here. Usually the spillage isn't a problem because the roads are still somewhat snow covered....much more noticeable when they are not though.
> 
> Thanks for the tip!


Here you'll get HUGE fines for doing it that way, hardly anyone uses blowers (and i'm not talking about walk behinds …lol) …. the pushers are absolutely the worst, reason for the offence being firstly the traffic hazard pulling out then backing in (as in your vid), then until you polish up the spillage that blades leave behind if a car hits one of those snow bombs and does damage YOU ARE 100% liable ...… I frown on those practices too, I've hit those snowbombs and done front end plastic deflector damage on the way to jobs ***@##$%^!**

But that's just me I guess ……. Great Vid tho ! :waving:


----------



## OrganicsL&L

BladeBlowBucket;1597031 said:


> Here you'll get HUGE fines for doing it that way, hardly anyone uses blowers (and i'm not talking about walk behinds …lol) …. the pushers are absolutely the worst, reason for the offence being firstly the traffic hazard pulling out then backing in (as in your vid), then until you polish up the spillage that blades leave behind if a car hits one of those snow bombs and does damage YOU ARE 100% liable ...… I frown on those practices too, I've hit those snowbombs and done front end plastic deflector damage on the way to jobs ***@##$%^!**
> 
> But that's just me I guess ……. Great Vid tho ! :waving:


I agree on all of those points, and if there is ever a large pile that could create a dangerous situation, I always make sure to clean it up. The little bit that is left in the road in that video isn't much (IMHO), and the bit that pushed into the road on the left side of the drive was cleaned up after my videographer aka my son got back in with me and we went over it.


----------



## Neige

BladeBlowBucket;1597031 said:


> Here you'll get HUGE fines for doing it that way, hardly anyone uses blowers (and i'm not talking about walk behinds …lol) …. the pushers are absolutely the worst, reason for the offence being firstly the traffic hazard pulling out then backing in (as in your vid), then until you polish up the spillage that blades leave behind if a car hits one of those snow bombs and does damage YOU ARE 100% liable ...… I frown on those practices too, I've hit those snowbombs and done front end plastic deflector damage on the way to jobs ***@##$%^!**
> 
> But that's just me I guess ……. Great Vid tho ! :waving:


I am curious, if hardly anyone uses blower,s and pushers are the worst, how do you clean residential drives in BC. So everyday when people leave and come home they are creating a traffic hazard pulling out, or backing in. I agree you should not leave snow in the road, and it looked like he left very little.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

So I just started a video/picture thread, I'll start posting them there to keep this thread on point with the questions/answers.

Here is the link to that thread. I just posted the videos that are on here for now, but I do have a few more vids and some pics to post which I will in the next day or so.

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=1597076#post1597076


----------



## BladeBlowBucket

Neige;1597050 said:


> I am curious, if hardly anyone uses blower,s and pushers are the worst, how do you clean residential drives in BC. So everyday when people leave and come home they are creating a traffic hazard pulling out, or backing in. I agree you should not leave snow in the road, and it looked like he left very little.


When entering a drive/road, I push or blow or bucket my way in and off to the side immediately, if there is a sidewalk then go in a bit further … I use a big Skid, and as my avatar name says I use all three to be effective/efficient … but that brings up another by-law about dumping on Muni property ??? 
WTF where does it quit ??? …
Ohh and if you pile snow at the edge of the Road and obstuct vision entering a road ….…. That's good for a few more bucks payup

I guess no one ever said our job was easy, but that's Why we get paid the big bucks :laughing:


----------



## blowerman

BladeBlowBucket;1597085 said:


> When entering a drive/road, I push or blow or bucket my way in and off to the side immediately, if there is a sidewalk then go in a bit further … I use a big Skid, and as my avatar name says I use all three to be effective/efficient … but that brings up another by-law about dumping on Muni property ???
> WTF where does it quit ??? …
> Ohh and if you pile snow at the edge of the Road and obstuct vision entering a road ….…. That's good for a few more bucks payup
> 
> I guess no one ever said our job was easy, but that's Why we get paid the big bucks :laughing:


Guys, who dragged in the "negative nancy?"
Seriously, you speak with a lot of "I" statements but imply everyone in BC does it this way!
Anyway you slice it, the driveway is getting pulled into, backed into or a combination of both.I don't care what you use.
I curious, do you bucket in, then switch to a blower?


----------



## BladeBlowBucket

blowerman;1597296 said:


> Guys, who dragged in the "negative nancy?"
> Seriously, you speak with a lot of "I" statements but imply everyone in BC does it this way!
> Anyway you slice it, the driveway is getting pulled into, backed into or a combination of both.I don't care what you use.
> I curious, do you bucket in, then switch to a blower?


Seriously are you for real ???? :laughing:

Me was asked a question how me does it, so me does it the way me explained ! 

No, everybody does not do it this way, you can tell who the real contractors are. Just take a drive after an event and you and you can see where the backyard hooligans, fly by nighters, weekend warriors and guys making it a cash cow hang out.
There are alot of guys that are getting written up for these practices, thinking that just because they have a rotator on their roof they can pull out onto the road full push and expect that drivers will slow down or stop until the mess is cleaned up to get by.

There are many a threads out on other forums, about what is? the proper warning lights to install as a minimum, strobes, beacons, 4-ways what ever. Accidents, where the plow guy was proven to be at fault. Technically (here) they say that if you do this, you've got to have early warning signs (from both directions) and flaggers. That's just the way it is. I did not make up these laws, they have been around along time but never really enforced, but due to all of the extra amount of accident claims that the underwriters have had to payout, they want someone to be accountable.
Even at our Fire dept the extra training we have to implement regarding

And yes, Me does change over during a job to the blower from the blade or from the bucket, But not on a small drive as short as the one on the vid, me only has a few like that and me usually uses the blower from start to finish. On larger jobs me might plow the bulk back where there is no place to push, then put the blower on and clean-up the perimeters, but we're talking about sites that take an hr or two to complete … seriously, it only take maybe 2 mins to change over to another attachment, my larger rural sites are sometimes miles apart, we trailer from site to site. :redbounce ….


----------



## blowerman

BladeBlow,
Considering this is a informative thread about snowblowing, how about sharing what you use?
Any pictures or description of machine and blower would be nice.
So far the bickering is minimal here and the response with info is excellent.
We all love to learn from each other about blowers.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Here is a video taken in the middle of the storm around 9 at night on 2/8/13:






Not the best video but you can get an idea of how the storm was beginning to really crank up.


----------



## excav8ter

blowerman;1597433 said:


> bladeblow,
> considering this is a informative thread about snowblowing, how about sharing what you use?
> Any pictures or description of machine and blower would be nice.
> So far the bickering is minimal here and the response with info is excellent.
> We all love to learn from each other about blowers.


^^^^yes! ^^^^


----------



## IMAGE

I was asked a question yesterday about shear bolts, and now I know what promted it. Why's everyone talking about blowing shear bolts? I've gone through 1 shear bolt in 2 seasons with the Normand blowers. We even just had a blizzard here this last weekend with 1' of snow, but with drifts 2-4' deep, and still didn't blow any. The one that broke last winter was due to a softball sized rock.

I'd be curious to hear more on this and see if it's a brand thing, since I kinda got the idea it might be.


----------



## snopushin ford

Hey guys, I have been following this thread for a long time. I have come across a 2001 new holland tn75d. It has 1000hrs on it. What is your opinion of this tractor?? no other person does this in my area and i want to be the first with blower service. I believe the tractor has 62 pto horsepower so what size blower would be best? Usually the biggest snowfall is around a foot besides this past week when we got 30 inches. Thanks for all your feedback. MATT


----------



## IMAGE

snopushin ford;1597596 said:


> Hey guys, I have been following this thread for a long time. I have come across a 2001 new holland tn75d. It has 1000hrs on it. What is your opinion of this tractor?? no other person does this in my area and i want to be the first with blower service. I believe the tractor has 62 pto horsepower so what size blower would be best? Usually the biggest snowfall is around a foot besides this past week when we got 30 inches. Thanks for all your feedback. MATT


I'd use one Thumbs Up

Really you could run either an 82" or 92" on that tractor. It has similar specs to Collin's Bota's, and he runs 92" Normands with no problem. And it's similar specs to my Massey, and I have no problem with an 82" - I'm pretty sure I could run a 92" on mine, but I just ran what I had available since a customer needed my last 92" ASAP, so I put an 82" on I had in stock.

I think Paul might have first hand experience with the tn75's actually, I think I remember him having some, but maybe they were tn90's? The hours are very low also, so if the hour meter is accurate that could be a really nice tractor.


----------



## Neige

IMAGE;1597595 said:


> I was asked a question yesterday about shear bolts, and now I know what promted it. Why's everyone talking about blowing shear bolts? I've gone through 1 shear bolt in 2 seasons with the Normand blowers. We even just had a blizzard here this last weekend with 1' of snow, but with drifts 2-4' deep, and still didn't blow any. The one that broke last winter was due to a softball sized rock.
> 
> I'd be curious to hear more on this and see if it's a brand thing, since I kinda got the idea it might be.


The number 1 reason for the shear bolt is to protect the blower. If you should pick up a solid item that gets carried to the blower fan, the shear bolt should break before damage can be done to the fan or gearbox. The second reason you may break a shear bolt is when you turn on your blower too quickly when it is full of snow. The third could be with time the nut comes loose on the bolt, leaving a little play thus making it easier to shear the bolt. The are other reasons, but these are the most common. Our company has run all the models of blowers, and each manufacturer shear pins broke because of these reasons. It is not unheard of to go through a season without breaking bolts. If you are breaking bolts for no reason at all, make sure you put lock washers on the bolts, or like mentioned earlier nylon lock nuts. You really should not be breaking bolts unless something gets caught in the blower.


----------



## Neige

snopushin ford;1597596 said:


> Hey guys, I have been following this thread for a long time. I have come across a 2001 new holland tn75d. It has 1000hrs on it. What is your opinion of this tractor?? no other person does this in my area and i want to be the first with blower service. I believe the tractor has 62 pto horsepower so what size blower would be best? Usually the biggest snowfall is around a foot besides this past week when we got 30 inches. Thanks for all your feedback. MATT


If you PM me the info on this tractor I will check it out for you. I would recomend the 82 inch Normand blower it needs less HP ( rated 40-65 ) to run then the 92 inch. ( rated 60-85 ) Also the 82 inch weighs 425 lbs less.


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## snopushin ford

Paul, what info would you like? I need to get the info from the seller so it could take some time. Thank you guys for helping out!!! Matt


----------



## snopushin ford

this is the ad.... New Holland TN75D 2001 (Serial #125339183)
Factory Cab w/AC & Heat
4 Wheel Drive
75 Engine Horse Power
62 PTO Horse Power
Max Torque [email protected]
3rd Remote
#32LA New Holland Loader (Serial #S1D1104)
Joy Stick Control Mid Coupler plus 84" Pin Bucket & Grille
New Holland Forks
Tires: REAR 16.9 x24 R4 FRONT 10.5 X 20 R4 
Thanks


----------



## StuveCorp

MogMan;1596860 said:


> I went through 2 on the pto shaft and 4 on the blower side this year. 2 man hole covers and the rest was because of baseball size rocks jamming the impeller. Oh yeah, also, an oven door.
> 
> Easy to change


I forgot, thanks MogMan for the youtubes awhile ago! Thumbs Up

For me I like seeing all the different makes and models working. I think it helps me apply what can be done with the tractor/blower setup. Like doing 'regular' snow work not just residential drives.


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## blowerman

We had a shear loosening up, that's why it broke on us this year.
(then a field repair, maybe not as tight or the right bolt, breaks again; failure rate goes up)
In the past, slamming into extremely wet snow piles would break my PXPL alot.
Paul listed the main reasons they snap and my patterns fit them to a T.


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## OrganicsL&L

Okay, last video for a while....looks like more snow coming at us, so I need to get ready.






Again, not great video, but shot by my 11yo daughter, so pretty good overall.


----------



## IMAGE

Neige;1597626 said:


> The number 1 reason for the shear bolt is to protect the blower. If you should pick up a solid item that gets carried to the blower fan, the shear bolt should break before damage can be done to the fan or gearbox. The second reason you may break a shear bolt is when you turn on your blower too quickly when it is full of snow. The third could be with time the nut comes loose on the bolt, leaving a little play thus making it easier to shear the bolt. The are other reasons, but these are the most common. Our company has run all the models of blowers, and each manufacturer shear pins broke because of these reasons. It is not unheard of to go through a season without breaking bolts. If you are breaking bolts for no reason at all, make sure you put lock washers on the bolts, or like mentioned earlier nylon lock nuts. You really should not be breaking bolts unless something gets caught in the blower.


I agree those are all reasons a shear pin will break. But the customer that contacted me the other day has 2 different brands of blowers, and they are going though several shear pins a night with the other brand, but none with the Normand. Makes me wonder if it's a result of the full flight auger on the other brand? Since with the full flight auger it's more likely to overload the impeller, since the snow has to move towards center, it can't just float past the ribbons when it's full like on the Normand.


----------



## Neige

IMAGE;1597935 said:


> I agree those are all reasons a shear pin will break. But the customer that contacted me the other day has 2 different brands of blowers, and they are going though several shear pins a night with the other brand, but none with the Normand. Makes me wonder if it's a result of the full flight auger on the other brand? Since with the full flight auger it's more likely to overload the impeller, since the snow has to move towards center, it can't just float past the ribbons when it's full like on the Normand.


It could be, I am curious which one they are breaking. If its the one on the PTO shaft, I would be checking all the bearings making sure they are all still intact. A broken bearing will cause the auger jump, causing the shear pin to break. If they are breaking the small one in back, I would be checking that the shaft is still aligned properly.


----------



## RAZOR

I'm curious if tension of the chain has anything to do with shear bolts breaking. So far this year we have not broken a bolt on any of of blowers. I do find that they tend to loosen off aftr a couple of runs. I started to install an extra nut on the bolt to stop the first bolt for loosening off, it seems to work better than the nylock nuts.


----------



## BladeBlowBucket

blowerman;1597433 said:


> BladeBlow,
> Considering this is a informative thread about snowblowing, how about sharing what you use?
> Any pictures or description of machine and blower would be nice.
> So far the bickering is minimal here and the response with info is excellent.
> We all love to learn from each other about blowers.


First Blower I had was an Allied Buhler 5' 3 point hitch converted to a skid mount and hyd drive, we added wings to it so it was as wide as the skid (but not wide enough) there were alot of growing pains to make it work getting the correct match hyd motor vs gpm of the skid.

A few yrs of that, it was a pain to change the direction of blow (manually) so it was time to up grade.

We looked a everything I could find, it's pretty hard to do over the internet, lots of guys have the 3-point tractor types (mostly ranchers) nobody uses them here for commercial purposes.

What I wanted was the Kahlbacher Kfs 750 x 2200 ……. no dealers in N.America, even with family ties over in the old country in would of come to ~$36,000.00 Quality was second to none, they're built using Hardox Steel (check it out) piston hyd motors, bearings on the rotate, hyd side ways tilt, clutch's no shear pins, it goes on and on ….But too much for my piggy bank :crying: …

We wound up buying a new Buhler Commercial 8424-lV (hi-flow) hyd Blower specifically built for loaders & skids, c/w standard +11' truck loading Shutes. I went that route, because when I was at the Bcat dealer there was a new one there bent all to crap, it was a hi-flow model they had on a Tool Cat at a Ski-resort, the auger was like a figure 8 …. guess they ran into something, the repair was huge $$$$ ~4,000.00  hyd motor screw'd because their's as other brands out there like to mount the auger motor into the end of the auger, snapped everything off. If it happened on my model $700
The Buhler uses chain drive for both fan and auger, my model has 2 hyd 6000 series motors, a larger taller standard open Shute than some, after all the playing around with the old one, the chain drive you can play with gearing ratios … for some stupid reason 540 rpm does not work the same hydraulically as it does direct pto drive.
Because all manufacturers build their blowers generically to fit every skid out there, like the gpm and hp of every hiflow skid is the same ???... I knew we had to leave the window open to play with, direct drive you can't.

When I got mine it worked OK ….. changed the fan speed up to ~750 rpm @80% (hyd motor rating under load) it increased the casting distance an extra ~25' average in good conditions am very pleased with the performance now wesport

I just tried to download pics ??? says it failed … Have had this happen before??? … is it size again or ??? if it is how do I resize ? … Thanx


----------



## OrganicsL&L

IMAGE;1597595 said:


> I was asked a question yesterday about shear bolts, and now I know what promted it. Why's everyone talking about blowing shear bolts? I've gone through 1 shear bolt in 2 seasons with the Normand blowers. We even just had a blizzard here this last weekend with 1' of snow, but with drifts 2-4' deep, and still didn't blow any. The one that broke last winter was due to a softball sized rock.
> 
> I'd be curious to hear more on this and see if it's a brand thing, since I kinda got the idea it might be.


I figured out why I have been breaking the shear bolts, and it was my error. I was starting it up full of snow and they would snap if it was packed in real tight. Now that I have altered my ways, I don't really break any. I have only had one for the auger break all season and that was due to a huge chunk of ice binding up the auger.


----------



## PTSolutions

my tractor has an auto pto engagement. When you lower the 3pt it automatically turns it on, and when you lift it shuts off. This keeps you from having to remember one more thing as your throwing a ton of levers when operating. I just turn the dial to manual and use the standard pull switch if i want delay blowing to drag snow out of somewhere. We only broke 2 shear pins this year, one on the pto and the other on the shaft the connects the impeller to the auger drive unit on the back, but that one worked itself loose.


----------



## RAZOR

Do you guys leave your PTO on between driveways? My driveways are close together (30 seconds apart) so I leave mine on unless I have to travel more than 3 minutes then I turn it off.


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## Neige

RAZOR;1598234 said:


> Do you guys leave your PTO on between driveways? My driveways are close together (30 seconds apart) so I leave mine on unless I have to travel more than 3 minutes then I turn it off.


We generally keep them on from the first drive to the last, unless there is a need to turn them off.


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## MogMan

RAZOR;1598234 said:


> Do you guys leave your PTO on between driveways? My driveways are close together (30 seconds apart) so I leave mine on unless I have to travel more than 3 minutes then I turn it off.


I personnaly turn it off as soon as I am done blowin'. Otherwise I would be constantly over-revving the pto. I drive my tractor like if I stole it


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## Golfpro21

MogMan;1598251 said:


> I personnaly turn it off as soon as I am done blowin'. Otherwise I would be constantly over-revving the pto. I drive my tractor like if I stole it


I am experimenting with this too. I used to keep it on the entire storm, but now I am turning it off after every driveway (unless right beside each other)

I believe I am seeing less fuel consumption doing this.


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## RAZOR

MogMan;1598251 said:


> I personnaly turn it off as soon as I am done blowin'. Otherwise I would be constantly over-revving the pto. I drive my tractor like if I stole it


I can see your point, the speed of my pto goes up to around 590 rpm when I'm going down the road. I have not had any related problems because of this thou. Do you ever have to replace your PTo switch or clutch?


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## MogMan

Golfpro21;1598332 said:


> I am experimenting with this too. I used to keep it on the entire storm, but now I am turning it off after every driveway (unless right beside each other)
> 
> I believe I am seeing less fuel consumption doing this.


In my case, 540rpm at the PTO happens at around 1800 engine rpm. Im always gunning it at the max of 2400rpm. My logic for turning it off often was to give those moving part a longer life. Also, on the NH, the PTO button is easy to use, you just slap it to turn it off.

Lastly, all my contracts are downtown, where spots to blow snow on are scarce, I do a lot of drag-n-blow. Pto off until i reach the spot.

Btw, i always start the pto with the blower packed with snow, never broke a pin, under -2c, like that. In the case of sticky snow, then I have to change tactics, otherwise the chute gets packed and jams.


----------



## MogMan

RAZOR;1598378 said:


> I can see your point, the speed of my pto goes up to around 590 rpm when I'm going down the road. I have not had any related problems because of this thou. Do you ever have to replace your PTo switch or clutch?


Sometimes, i look down and see that the blower spins at 700rpm...never had issues with the pronovost using it like I do.

For the pto clutch replacement, uber-tractor-lord Neige would be the one to know. I'd def would like to know.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

RAZOR;1598234 said:


> Do you guys leave your PTO on between driveways? My driveways are close together (30 seconds apart) so I leave mine on unless I have to travel more than 3 minutes then I turn it off.


with my close driveways I leave it on, but my route being brand new is a bit spread out, so when I am traveling, I turn it off.


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## Neige

RAZOR;1598378 said:


> I can see your point, the speed of my pto goes up to around 590 rpm when I'm going down the road. I have not had any related problems because of this thou. Do you ever have to replace your PTo switch or clutch?


Razor we have had to change some switches on the New Hollands. For the Kubotas, on our 9000 series its a thin metal lever, and we wore through some. In all our years we only changed the PTO clutch, in one New Holland. Oh and a PTO switch in a newer Kubota, but that was because the operator kept the window open all the time, and it finally shorted out the switch. That cost $1,200 just for the part. Just a FYI, for those who like to keep a window cracked open, do so only with the left hand side window. there are no electronics on that side.



MogMan;1598427 said:


> Sometimes, i look down and see that the blower spins at 700rpm...never had issues with the pronovost using it like I do.
> 
> For the pto clutch replacement, uber-tractor-lord Neige would be the one to know. I'd def would like to know.


Each operator is different, most will start them up at the shop and leave them on. Something we strongly suggest is to drive in 2 wheel drive. There are many occasions and weather conditions, that you do not even have to use the 4x4 while blowing. This does definitely saves on fuel and tire ware. Then there are the times when its wet snow and once driven over it becomes ice, and you keep checking to see if your 4x4 is on, its that slippery.


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## blowerman

Seeing the 4x4 comment, I'll add that we hardly ever use it. 2wd has been fine for 90% of the time.


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## OrganicsL&L

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^agreed!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## RAZOR

Neige;1598754 said:


> Razor we have had to change some switches on the New Hollands. For the Kubotas, on our 9000 series its a thin metal lever, and we wore through some. In all our years we only changed the PTO clutch, in one New Holland. Oh and a PTO switch in a newer Kubota, but that was because the operator kept the window open all the time, and it finally shorted out the switch. That cost $1,200 just for the part. Just a FYI, for those who like to keep a window cracked open, do so only with the left hand side window. there are no electronics on that side.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Good tip on keeping only the left window open. I had a issue with salt running down the inside of the window and breaking the lines on the defroster. I also had an issue with the pto not shutting off with the new button style pto switch. The fix was cleaning up and applying Fluid Film to connection where the wire goes into the tranny. I had 4 earlier Kubotas with the lever type pto switch and never had a problem, they change to the new style and after 100 hours they start to act up. I guess if these are my biggest problems then I should be happy.


----------



## excav8ter

So i have my plowing partner pretty well convinced that a tractor/blower is something we need to look into. How many remotes do i need to have on the tractor. Would a JD 5101E be a good tractor to consider? What size blower would i pair with it?


----------



## Neige

excav8ter;1599369 said:


> So i have my plowing partner pretty well convinced that a tractor/blower is something we need to look into. How many remotes do i need to have on the tractor. Would a JD 5101E be a good tractor to consider? What size blower would i pair with it?


That's a great size tractor, and I would suggest a 92 inch Normand. 2 remotes are all you need for the blower, unless you want to run a back blade. Personally I think getting a third remote from the start is a good thing, leaves you open more more options in the future.


----------



## MRHORSEPOWER1

Neige;1597626 said:


> The number 1 reason for the shear bolt is to protect the blower. If you should pick up a solid item that gets carried to the blower fan, the shear bolt should break before damage can be done to the fan or gearbox. The second reason you may break a shear bolt is when you turn on your blower too quickly when it is full of snow. The third could be with time the nut comes loose on the bolt, leaving a little play thus making it easier to shear the bolt. The are other reasons, but these are the most common. Our company has run all the models of blowers, and each manufacturer shear pins broke because of these reasons. It is not unheard of to go through a season without breaking bolts. If you are breaking bolts for no reason at all, make sure you put lock washers on the bolts, or like mentioned earlier nylon lock nuts. You really should not be breaking bolts unless something gets caught in the blower.


Funny, I really wish the shear bolts break before the few damn rocks bent the impeller fan. It was ugly. I had to use blow torch and grinder to file it down to get the fan turning again and straightened out the fan shield plate. It happened last year. I already bought a new impeller fan through Steve from Fargo Snow this season but haven't got the time to replace it. It still works fine with little vibration. I still love my Normand blower. They get the job done no problem.


----------



## MRHORSEPOWER1

Neige;1598754 said:


> Each operator is different, most will start them up at the shop and leave them on. Something we strongly suggest is to drive in 2 wheel drive. There are many occasions and weather conditions, that you do not even have to use the 4x4 while blowing. This does definitely saves on fuel and tire ware. Then there are the times when its wet snow and once driven over it becomes ice, and you keep checking to see if your 4x4 is on, its that slippery.


I agree. I used 4x4 on most of time because sometimes there's so much slippery/icy crap on the streets making my tractor having hard time to turn either directions onto the street. I do several drag n blow on long driveways where 4x4 is needed the most.


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## IMAGE

MRHORSEPOWER1;1599401 said:


> I agree. I used 4x4 on most of time because sometimes there's so much slippery/icy crap on the streets making my tractor having hard time to turn either directions onto the street. I do several drag n blow on long driveways where 4x4 is needed the most.


Hey Paul, I got those videos you sent me, they were very good! You should post them up here, I think people will like the cab views you took :salute:


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## IMAGE

excav8ter;1599369 said:


> So i have my plowing partner pretty well convinced that a tractor/blower is something we need to look into. How many remotes do i need to have on the tractor. Would a JD 5101E be a good tractor to consider? What size blower would i pair with it?





Neige;1599375 said:


> That's a great size tractor, and I would suggest a 92 inch Normand. 2 remotes are all you need for the blower, unless you want to run a back blade. Personally I think getting a third remote from the start is a good thing, leaves you open more more options in the future.


Agreed Thumbs UpThumbs Up


----------



## MRHORSEPOWER1

IMAGE;1599501 said:


> Hey Paul, I got those videos you sent me, they were very good! You should post them up here, I think people will like the cab views you took :salute:


I will try and post some video buddy. I'm still tired man lol. I haven't got the chance to catch up online for a week.


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## IMAGE

MRHORSEPOWER1;1599807 said:


> I will try and post some video buddy. I'm still tired man lol. I haven't got the chance to catch up online for a week.


Better rest up today! Blizzard warning tonight and looks like solid snow again Thursday!


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## MRHORSEPOWER1

IMAGE;1599839 said:


> Better rest up today! Blizzard warning tonight and looks like solid snow again Thursday!


Oh man...time to call in Vanderzon crew and let them do it for me lol!!


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## OrganicsL&L

excav8ter;1599369 said:


> So i have my plowing partner pretty well convinced that a tractor/blower is something we need to look into. How many remotes do i need to have on the tractor. Would a JD 5101E be a good tractor to consider? What size blower would i pair with it?


Go For It! I just had a customer call to give me the information of a friend of theirs that wants to be on my route....for next year! I will undoubtedly have 120-150 on my route for next year.

If you are the first in your market, you will create a great buzz for the service, and if you market aggressively, you will easily cover your start up costs in year 1, then from there you will see how quick people want the service.

Good luck!


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## MRHORSEPOWER1

Hi everyone. Thought I should share this video with you guys. This video shows that a Normand inverted blower is the best choice for houses with a deep recessed garage property. I feel it is the best advantage over a plow truck or skid with a bucket because there is a lack of space for snow piles.

Even though I hate this type of property the inverted blower is still the best tool for this type of residence. Its sharp ability to blow in the most complicated area satisfies my customers because it keeps their property looking clean and professional.


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## MRHORSEPOWER1

Here's another video.

Feb 10, 2013 Heavy snows/blizzard storm in Fargo, ND. Blowing a foot of snow plus over 3 feet of drifts on one of my customer's driveway in Osgood area in South Fargo.


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## IMAGE

MRHORSEPOWER1;1600851 said:


> Hi everyone. Thought I should share this video with you guys. This video shows that a Normand inverted blower is the best choice for houses with a deep recessed garage property. I feel it is the best advantage over a plow truck or skid with a bucket because there is a lack of space for snow piles.
> 
> Even though I hate this type of property the inverted blower is still the best tool for this type of residence. Its sharp ability to blow in the most complicated area satisfies my customers because it keeps their property looking clean and professional.


Great video Paul! I hate those types of driveways too, but the inverted blower definately is the best tool for the job!


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## Herm Witte

Great videos Paul! May the rest of the season go well for you!


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## Neige

Thanks Paul and Rick for all your great videos of late. You are demonstrating that these blowers can handle large amounts of snow, not just the small stuff. I wanted to post a picture of two blowers pinned behind identical tractors. You will notice that the Normand ends up around 5 inches closer to the tractor, Thus reducing the load on the three point hitch, which is much better for the tractor and allows for a smoother ride. Because the Normand's wings are much longer you are able to contain more snow when dragging as Paul's videos demonstrated so well.


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## excav8ter

Great stuff guys! Thanks for being so great about posting and sharing your information. I am working hard to join the ranks of the "faster with a blower" group. I hope i can use these videos to convince my customers that this IS the way to go.....one road block for servicing single family residential drives, is the cost....i am up against guys charging $10 for a 22'x45' drive. The ones i have spoken to are interested in switching to blowing, but don't want to pay more, even for better quality. If i had 120 drives all close together, that might be doable. But that would be over and above my existing route, If i can keep everyone for next year.....


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## MRHORSEPOWER1

Thank you very much guys! I love my Normand blower very much.


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## newhere

Going to pick up my normand from steve tomorrow!


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## mnlefty

MRHORSEPOWER1;1600851 said:


> Hi everyone. Thought I should share this video with you guys. This video shows that a Normand inverted blower is the best choice for houses with a deep recessed garage property. I feel it is the best advantage over a plow truck or skid with a bucket because there is a lack of space for snow piles.
> 
> Even though I hate this type of property the inverted blower is still the best tool for this type of residence. Its sharp ability to blow in the most complicated area satisfies my customers because it keeps their property looking clean and professional.


Paul-

Awesome videos... question for you. What edges are you running on the blower and the backdrag? Poly on both, steel, or steel on the blower and poly on the drag? The drives in your videos scrape quite clean, including the tractor tracks, plenty clean enough to satisfy my customers and I'm hoping to run poly all the way around when the time comes.


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## blowerman

mnlefty;1601880 said:


> Paul-
> 
> Awesome videos... question for you. What edges are you running on the blower and the backdrag? Poly on both, steel, or steel on the blower and poly on the drag? The drives in your videos scrape quite clean, including the tractor tracks, plenty clean enough to satisfy my customers and I'm hoping to run poly all the way around when the time comes.


I don't believe Paul uses back drag blades. His cutting edges are the poly. He posted an excellent video on how to change these out.

When I bought my Normand from Fargo snow, I had it set up with poly both cutting edge and back drag blade. In the end, the guys don't use the back drag blade and we changed the cutting edge back to steel.


----------



## mnlefty

blowerman;1601957 said:


> I don't believe Paul uses back drag blades. His cutting edges are the poly. He posted an excellent video on how to change these out.
> 
> When I bought my Normand from Fargo snow, I had it set up with poly both cutting edge and back drag blade. In the end, the guys don't use the back drag blade and we changed the cutting edge back to steel.


MRHORSEPOWER appears to be another Paul on this thread... that's who I was directing the question to... his new videos from the cab show a pretty clean scrape.


----------



## MRHORSEPOWER1

mnlefty;1601880 said:


> Paul-
> 
> Awesome videos... question for you. What edges are you running on the blower and the backdrag? Poly on both, steel, or steel on the blower and poly on the drag? The drives in your videos scrape quite clean, including the tractor tracks, plenty clean enough to satisfy my customers and I'm hoping to run poly all the way around when the time comes.


Hi mnlefty and thank you, I'm running steel with poly backblade. Last season, I had uhmw poly cutting edge on but swapped back to steel this season. Scrape nice. It was perfect timing to do that driveway because the snow was still soft and easy to scrape. Sometimes doesn't scrape well if snow is hard and frozen as well as compacted but can go over few times or using back blade to scrape it backwards to break up some compacted snow on driveway. Steel edge wear out pretty fast. I had 5 or 6 passes on first end of the cutting edge then flipped it around so now it's down to roughly maybe 1/4" left. I got extra steel edge in the shop. Steve from Fargo Snow got some stainless steel cutting edge in stock (I think??).


----------



## blowerman

Mr Horsepower,
Why did you switch back to steel? Since I did the same, just trying to get another opinion on UHMV.
Also, what does "5 or 6 passes" equate to? For me the steel scraped better, but it does wear out fairly quick.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

It seems that the Normand edges are wearing out quicker than SHoule edges. I have been out about 12 times this year and it had been out a few times last year as well, and to my knowledge the blade has not been swapped or turned around. The SHoule scrapes decent, but not great, so I wonder if the Normand is scraping better which would explain the quicker wearing of edges???

BTW my 12 times is on about 55 driveways and about 75k sq. ft. of parking lot.


----------



## PTSolutions

When I first ordered the shoule, I wanted to go with steel edges. After running the blower for two seasons now, I'm glad I went with the poly edges. I've snagged a couple uneven spots on driveways that would have ripped the edge off the blower had it been steel. The poly is alot more forgiving. 

Since there is no trip mechanism, I wouldn't use anything other than poly after running them. I have a backblade with a poly edge, I may switch that to a steel edge, but only if I can fab up a new mount so that it will sit at a backward angle. I haven't noticed a difference in scraping compared to plows, as the blower itself is dang near 4k lbs. Plus I use the poly edge as a selling point in marketing the service, even though steel plow edges dont do any significant damage to begin with.


----------



## Big Dog D

I know most in this thread use tractor mounted blowers but do any of you have or had in the past skid steer blowers? I am looking at a blower for my 268B and was wonder how the Cat units are compared to other manufacturers models.

Thanks

PS I have been following this tread fairly regularly but don't recall anyone using skid steer mounted units.


----------



## IMAGE

ProTouchGrounds;1603997 said:


> I haven't noticed a difference in scraping compared to plows, as the blower itself is dang near 4k lbs.


Hey ProTouch :waving:

Hey I just wanted to correct this so it doesn't spread. I have no doubt your SHoule scrapes great. But the weight is closer to 2k lbs. I wouldn't want someone to get the wrong information or pass it on, so here's a picture right from the price list that shows the weight of it from the factory at 2135 lbs. Adding a couple hundred for the backblade it should still be under 2500 lbs.


----------



## MRHORSEPOWER1

blowerman;1602572 said:


> Mr Horsepower,
> Why did you switch back to steel? Since I did the same, just trying to get another opinion on UHMV.
> Also, what does "5 or 6 passes" equate to? For me the steel scraped better, but it does wear out fairly quick.


Hi Blowerman,

I switched back to steel because of scraping reason. I have over 130 driveways mixed with single, double, triple, y-triple, long private driveways, recessed garage driveways, and one big curved "h" driveway which is probably why it wears out fast. No skid shoes.


----------



## Neige

excav8ter;1601229 said:


> Great stuff guys! Thanks for being so great about posting and sharing your information. I am working hard to join the ranks of the "faster with a blower" group. I hope i can use these videos to convince my customers that this IS the way to go.....one road block for servicing single family residential drives, is the cost....i am up against guys charging $10 for a 22'x45' drive. The ones i have spoken to are interested in switching to blowing, but don't want to pay more, even for better quality. If i had 120 drives all close together, that might be doable. But that would be over and above my existing route, If i can keep everyone for next year.....


I personally think you can still compete, I have mentioned this in previous threads we charge seasonally, and it comes out to $5.00 every time we service the client. I am not saying this is what you should charge, its really what my market is willing to pay, and we are considered expensive in our market. What it comes down to is being able to do 50 drives an hour, thus making $250.00/hr for the tractor blower. Now imagine when you start of, you were able to service 20 drives an hr at $10.00 that still gives you $200/hr. As you build up your route density you may be able to do 30/hr, who do you know in this industry that can make $300/hr with a capital investment of say 70 grand.
You say that people are not interested in paying more, but just maybe they would be interested in paying $2.00 more so $12.00 per service call for a better quality job, and smaller snow piles if any. You just made another $60/hr more. The real trick is to charge the most you can, but not to much so that 50% or more of the home owners are willing to pay for your services. Its hard work, not everyone succeeds, but those that do are setting a trend that very few can follow. 



ProTouchGrounds;1603997 said:


> When I first ordered the shoule, I wanted to go with steel edges. After running the blower for two seasons now, I'm glad I went with the poly edges. I've snagged a couple uneven spots on driveways that would have ripped the edge off the blower had it been steel. The poly is alot more forgiving.
> 
> A very good point, one that we have experienced time and time again. Most people I talk to, do not like how quickly the poly edges wear out, and that they do not scrape as well as steel. We are going to be testing a hard rubber cutting edge in the near future. Will keep you all in the loop how that works out.
> 
> Since there is no trip mechanism, I wouldn't use anything other than poly after running them. I have a backblade with a poly edge, I may switch that to a steel edge, but only if I can fab up a new mount so that it will sit at a backward angle. I haven't noticed a difference in scraping compared to plows, as the blower itself is dang near 4k lbs. Plus I use the poly edge as a selling point in marketing the service, even though steel plow edges dont do any significant damage to begin with.


We can only use poly because of the large number of interlock brick drives in my market.

Good stuff everyone, keep the comments, questions and photos coming


----------



## PTSolutions

> We can only use poly because of the large number of interlock brick drives in my market.


Yea, we are lucky to not have many of those around here lol.



> Hey ProTouch
> 
> Hey I just wanted to correct this so it doesn't spread. I have no doubt your SHoule scrapes great. But the weight is closer to 2k lbs. I wouldn't want someone to get the wrong information or pass it on, so here's a picture right from the price list that shows the weight of it from the factory at 2135 lbs. Adding a couple hundred for the backblade it should still be under 2500 lbs.


Thanks for the correction Steve, I swear I kept seeing 4k mentioned on here as to the weight of the units. They don't look that heavy, but I just thought it was thick steel for the frames. 2500 sounds much more in line.



> I know most in this thread use tractor mounted blowers but do any of you have or had in the past skid steer blowers? I am looking at a blower for my 268B and was wonder how the Cat units are compared to other manufacturers models.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> PS I have been following this tread fairly regularly but don't recall anyone using skid steer mounted units.


I have an erskine 2410x hiflo 84" blower on my asv rc100. I used it for one season on a 63 unit hoa, it works good for heavy snowfalls, but what I notice is a buildup of snow in front that gets piled up against garage doors. Now I just use a boss skid plow with wings to drag the driveways and plow the roads. The blower is only used now to blow piles to make room for more snow or if we would get a really heavy snowfall, like 8"+. Most of the skid blowers are made by a few mfg's and are re-branded. I'm pretty sure the bobcat blowers are either erskine or paladin/ffc units labeled bobcat. I think the cat blowers are ffc as well. I have not had any issues with my blower fwiw.


----------



## MogMan

I uploaded 3 vids from recent outings.

All the driveway in this vid have a decent grade with barely room to blow snow.






I couldnt have those contracts with a pickup/blade setup. Cant drop the snow on the street, strictly enforced around here.

Other 2 vids shows that big lots can be done with an inverted blower.


----------



## MogMan

Neige;1601204 said:


> Thanks Paul and Rick for all your great videos of late. You are demonstrating that these blowers can handle large amounts of snow, not just the small stuff. I wanted to post a picture of two blowers pinned behind identical tractors. You will notice that the Normand ends up around 5 inches closer to the tractor, Thus reducing the load on the three point hitch, which is much better for the tractor and allows for a smoother ride. Because the Normand's wings are much longer you are able to contain more snow when dragging as Paul's videos demonstrated so well.


That shorter by 5 inches is what I need.

Are the Normand around the same price as the Pronovost ?


----------



## Neige

MogMan;1607446 said:


> That shorter by 5 inches is what I need.
> 
> Are the Normand around the same price as the Pronovost ?


Yes they are, give me a call and I will work something out with you. Thumbs Up
514.608.4675


----------



## OrganicsL&L

In for a quick 2hr break....our 4-8" storm has turned into 10-12" and its still snowing. First wet and heavy snow of the year, and the blower has been great. The tractor has struggled with traction issues....def. need the nokian or similar tires. Hoping the temps drop from 30 to about 27 and traction should improve....sliding all over the place though.

Time to re hydrate, eat and get back at it.


----------



## newhere

Buy a siping tool and do every lug on your tires. Will be waaaay better and only cost you a hundred bucks for the tool


----------



## MogMan

OrganicsL&L;1607667 said:


> In for a quick 2hr break....our 4-8" storm has turned into 10-12" and its still snowing. First wet and heavy snow of the year, and the blower has been great. The tractor has struggled with traction issues....def. need the nokian or similar tires. Hoping the temps drop from 30 to about 27 and traction should improve....sliding all over the place though.
> 
> Time to re hydrate, eat and get back at it.


Had some traction issues too. Droping the tire pressure helped but definetly interested in sipin'em. The Nokian would be awesome but I'd prefer giving this money to Paul for a Normand inverted 92incher.


----------



## newhere

my tires have gotten hard and glazzed up, im using a irrigation pipe cutter because the blade is stout. I get it red hot and do about 25 cuts, heat it up and 25 more. The outside of the lugs im using a "forever sharp" kitchen knife to cut into them. It makes a wider cut and pulls some material out. 

Its slow and a pain in the arse, i need to get a electric one.


----------



## Golfpro21

newhere;1607902 said:


> my tires have gotten hard and glazzed up, im using a irrigation pipe cutter because the blade is stout. I get it red hot and do about 25 cuts, heat it up and 25 more. The outside of the lugs im using a "forever sharp" kitchen knife to cut into them. It makes a wider cut and pulls some material out.
> 
> Its slow and a pain in the arse, i need to get a electric one.


ok what is this technique??


----------



## MogMan

Golfpro21;1608047 said:


> ok what is this technique??


A video of this would be great


----------



## newhere

All you do is make a bunch of razor cuts in the tires. Im doing half of them straight in line with the lugs and half of them at a angle to help with sliding sideways. Im cutting into the tire a healthy 1/4" at least maybe a little more. What it does is make for more bitting edges or some call them leading edges, thats what bites into the snow as the tire comes around that cut opens up a little and bites in. As time goes buy the cuts will stay open a little more. 

Its a very common practice on car and truck tires for snow and ice, normally any tire center has a special machine to do it or they just do it by hand. 

They sell all types of tools to do it, some come with 4 razor blades in them so you make 4 cuts with one pass all about 3/8" apart, some have one blade you can set the depth on, some are electric and are a spinning disc that cuts in, they even make heated ones that cut like butter.


----------



## newhere

Watch the whole video or skip right to the 8 minute mark if you want to see the action


----------



## MogMan

newhere;1608073 said:


> Watch the whole video or skip right to the 8 minute mark if you want to see the action


On an AG tire, how would you do it ?

Left to right (1) on the v-lugs or would you section the lug up to down (2) ?


----------



## Big Dog D

ProTouchGrounds;1607209 said:


> I have an erskine 2410x hiflo 84" blower on my asv rc100. I used it for one season on a 63 unit hoa, it works good for heavy snowfalls, but what I notice is a buildup of snow in front that gets piled up against garage doors. Now I just use a boss skid plow with wings to drag the driveways and plow the roads. The blower is only used now to blow piles to make room for more snow or if we would get a really heavy snowfall, like 8"+. Most of the skid blowers are made by a few mfg's and are re-branded. I'm pretty sure the bobcat blowers are either erskine or paladin/ffc units labeled bobcat. I think the cat blowers are ffc as well. I have not had any issues with my blower fwiw.


My desire would be to have it to use primarily for clean-up after large storms or back to back moderate events. We have a bank that we do that we are required to the curb area along the street post storm so that the customers can park on the street and open their doors and walk right in as if it were August. To achieve that now we use a 10ft Pro-Tech pusher (with the pull back feature) on the Cat 268B and pull it off of the curb then push it down to the intersection, up the side street and then into a pile in their lot in the back. With the blower I feel that I could either blow it on the lawn or into the back of a truck and have it be far more efficient.

I just want to make sure it's worth the $ that I would spend on the blower. I am nervous about spending the $ on one to find out it will be a dissapointment.

I have a strong desire to get into doing a series of larger scale residential communities, when that comes to fruition I would definitely go the tractor blower route.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

So just finished with our latest meteorologist screw up....1-3" turned into 14" of heavy wet icy mess! As I said, the blower handled the snow no problem, but I did suck up my first Sunday paper....jammed in there really tight. Had to use a torch to burn it out....A quick note, if you ever have this situation, be careful not to over heat any bearings in the area, that could cause you problems.

It was fun to shoot snow through with the blower still hot....lots of steam!

Ok, going to bed, looks like 6-12 more on Wed. or should I prepare for another 32"???


----------



## MogMan

OrganicsL&L;1608453 said:


> So just finished with our latest meteorologist screw up....1-3" turned into 14" of heavy wet icy mess! ...


They do sucks asses. Rule of thumb is to double what they predict


----------



## newhere

I hope we get dumped on tomorrow, mine is almost ready to go!


----------



## IMAGE

newhere;1608523 said:


> i hope we get dumped on tomorrow, mine is almost ready to go!


awesome!!!


----------



## newhere

For some reason the shoot will spin counter clock wise just fine. if i push the lever to far trying to spin the other way it slams and stops and you can hear the engine loaded. If i just push the stick a little then it will go fine.

Any news on the bushings for a smaller pin? i know those holes are going to be blown out after the first night.

All i could come up with is 2" UDHW for the edge, stuff is thick we shall see how it works. 


Chucked a rock up and hit the glass so hard i shat myself last night, cant believe it didn't break the window.


----------



## newhere

MogMan;1608105 said:


> On an AG tire, how would you do it ?
> 
> Left to right (1) on the v-lugs or would you section the lug up to down (2) ?


I would shoot for design #1 and then a mix, do every other lug at a angle.

If i still had ag tires on i would be full on re-grooving them along with siping.


----------



## IMAGE

newhere;1608787 said:


> For some reason the shoot will spin counter clock wise just fine. if i push the lever to far trying to spin the other way it slams and stops and you can hear the engine loaded. If i just push the stick a little then it will go fine.
> 
> Any news on the bushings for a smaller pin? i know those holes are going to be blown out after the first night.
> 
> All i could come up with is 2" UDHW for the edge, stuff is thick we shall see how it works.
> 
> Chucked a rock up and hit the glass so hard i shat myself last night, cant believe it didn't break the window.


I've never heard of that problem with the rotation before. Can you see something binding? Or is something moving sideways (like the chute?) when you try to rotate it that direction? Are the gears binding maybe? I think the gear rotation motor can be adjusted in/out ~ 1/4 inch. Maybe it's in too deep?

Oh, sorry I wasn't clear in my text. I didn't mean that Normand makes bushings. I ment like they in general like a hardware store or tractor supply store. They sell different 3 point balls/bushings for different type hitches. I know our local Fleet Farm has a good selection, but they are regional, I'm pretty sure they aren't in your area. But you should have something local, or just your local JD AG dealer would know what you need.


----------



## 4wydnr

newhere;1608787 said:


> For some reason the shoot will spin counter clock wise just fine. if i push the lever to far trying to spin the other way it slams and stops and you can hear the engine loaded. If i just push the stick a little then it will go fine.
> 
> Chucked a rock up and hit the glass so hard i shat myself last night, cant believe it didn't break the window.


Do you have the hydraulic remote on the tractor set correctly? On our JD 7600 we had I seem to recall having issues running momentary operations like rams and rotating motors for your chute if the remote was set to run a continuous pump. It would work if you lightly feathered the lever but if you pushed too far it would stop the operation. On that tractor there was a knob just above the connections on the outside to set what you want to operate with it.

I've kicked up a few rocks with the stalk chopper and I know exactly how you felt!


----------



## newhere

I'm running it off the loader function that would be the bucket dump function.


----------



## IMAGE

newhere;1609241 said:


> I'm running it off the loader function that would be the bucket dump function.


Did you try running it off a different function like I suggested just to be sure it isn't something on the tractor side?


----------



## blowerman

IMAGE;1609272 said:


> Did you try running it off a different function like I suggested just to be sure it isn't something on the tractor side?


would I assume the lines are crossed, maybe?
As steve knows, I run three pair; my M100x is set up with 4 pair. If you don't hook the lines to the correct ports,(in relation to flow) the shoot or deflector won't function properly.
The solution once the lines were set and we determined which levers we wanted for each function, colored zip ties were put on the lines so the guys know how to reconnect the hoses.


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Hey blowerman....how do you like the M100x's? The tractor we are renting for this season is a New Holland T5050 which has plenty of power, but I'm thinking the larger frame on the Kubota will work out better. The SHoule blower is awful heavy on that tractor and there is a lot of front drift with the blower off the ground. There are other things on the NH that I am not thrilled with as well, so most likely we'll be picking up the M100.

On another note concerning challenging driveways....we are now going to pre salt all of our steeply sloped drives...we had two in this last storm that we could not get up(Ag tires!) because the snow packed and became ice immediately upon wheel spin. I'm hoping that by pre salting it won't adhere to the pavement and we'll be able to get up easier.


----------



## blowerman

organics,
the M100x is a great tractor. 
Unit is priced very reasonable, comfort is up there +plus 15 degree seat to the right helps, all buttons and controls feel good, power is great, no problems with the Normand blower.
I did have the rear window changed out for a defroster set up. 
Just buy one!


----------



## excav8ter

How do the tractors "shift" from forward to reverse and reverse to forward? Is it like a front end loader? Or do you need to depress the clutch every time to want to change directions? I would hope i wouldn't have to clutch each time i stop and switch directions.


----------



## MogMan

excav8ter;1609352 said:


> How do the tractors "shift" from forward to reverse and reverse to forward? Is it like a front end loader? Or do you need to depress the clutch every time to want to change directions? I would hope i wouldn't have to clutch each time i stop and switch directions.


On my T6030 NH, I got the power shuttle tranny, where there is a stalk on the column that lets go from ffwd to reverse without the clutch. Awesome ! It keeps in memory the gears you were in in rwd and fwd i.e. 5th gear ffwd and 8th gear in reverse for example.


----------



## blowerman

excav8ter;1609352 said:


> How do the tractors "shift" from forward to reverse and reverse to forward? Is it like a front end loader? Or do you need to depress the clutch every time to want to change directions? I would hope i wouldn't have to clutch each time i stop and switch directions.


Left hand reverser. most (not all) are clutchless for F & R shifts. On the Kubota, you can shift the gears with a push of the button. This is found on the arm rest and range shift lever, either one works.

The Kioti needs to be clutched, but we won't talk about that.


----------



## PTSolutions

blowerman;1609393 said:


> Left hand reverser. most (not all) are clutchless for F & R shifts. On the Kubota, you can shift the gears with a push of the button. This is found on the arm rest and range shift lever, either one works.
> 
> The Kioti needs to be clutched, but we won't talk about that.


Whats wrong with that lol? Been clutching two seasons now, estimated around 700-1k clutch engagements per run. At least I get radio, rear defrost and wiper as standard equip!

But seriously, I am most likely picking up an m100/110 for next season and the dk90 will be moved to a lot with a pusher.


----------



## blowerman

While I know we have primarily been discussing tractor/blower combos, I'm interested in why guys use Bobcat toolcats...
Main reason; considering I have used skid loaders with snowblowers for years and mainly changed because in deep, wet snow production slowed too much for my liking, this past snow was about 6-8" wet mud and I watched a few toolcats run around trying to blow driveways with production at a snails pace.
Also, with the skiddy we'd turn and scoop in front of the garage door on our last pass but with the toolcat they just left a big pile by the door or had to slow to a crawl to suck up the crumbs.
Any input would be appreciated. I have no real plans on getting a toolcat with blower for drives, but brought this up for discussion.


----------



## mnlefty

I'll reply with the why's for this Toolcat user... 2 main reasons for me are $$ and availability when I started. Here's the story...

4 years ago I was on plowsite for the winter admiring Neige's videos and operation, like so many of us here. I wanted to put it in place here. At the same time I was in the process of buying a lawn care company. Made that deal in March/April 2010. The guy I bought the lawn business (all residential) from had never done snow before. It left me with a built in customer base to get started, but the purchase of the business and the first season of lawn work left my cashflow quite tight, along with the uncertainty of how many customers I could reasonably expect to sign up for snow. I wanted to get into it on the slow side, do it for 1 year and make sure I could handle what I took on, rather take on too much too fast and leave a sour taste to customers who were "new" to me as an owner.

In my area a seasonal lease on a toolcat was easier to find... and financial condition dictated a winter lease rather than buying. I didn't want to take on a large financed purchase as I was extended pretty far on the business purchase. So couple the easier toolcat lease vs. a tractor, and a bobcat blower costing me about half of what an inverted would run, along with that being the year before Image really got rolling as a dealer, so no "local" source for the inverted. The toolcat just made more sense logistically.

I did about 30 that first year, and now about 50 last season and current. I've stuck with the toolcat only because I still have the blower that's paid for, still get a cheap lease on the toolcat, and still am not in a great capital position to take the next step. But the end goal has always been tractor/inverted.

The 50 I'm at is about max for the rig I run. The only way I could realistically take more is to add from the most dense area of the route, and drop stragglers/outliers. I've gotten enough calls, referrals, general interest to feel confident that we could double the 50 without hardly any effort at all. Our service is top notch and neighbors are noticing. But now I'm at a spot where it's time to take the next step or watch somebody beat me to it. I was the first in my service area to use a blower of any kind (other than the 1 man show kind with walk-behinds). After guys saw my first year, now there's at least 2 other companies using toolcats, 1 has a pair of them. The tractor/inverted is either in place or in the works in neighboring towns, so if I don't do it now I'm running a big risk of not being first.

If I can't do it on my own for next season I may be able to partner up with a customer, believe it or not. One of my best customers loves our service and has offered on multiple occasions to do whatever he can to help grow the business... he actually had his own plow company 20+ years ago in college, and now has major $$ from unrelated business ventures. Not out of the realm of possibility for him to front the capital if/when I show him a solid business plan with financial prospects for the tractor model. This might be the right time make that move. Given the level of interest and satisfaction I've seen over the last 3 years, it's realistic to think if I had gone tractor/inverted from the beginning I might be looking to add my 2nd or even 3rd rig by now.


----------



## blowerman

thanks for the answer mnleafty.
more are welcome to share.


----------



## IMAGE

mnlefty;1611054 said:


> I'll reply with the why's for this Toolcat user... 2 main reasons for me are $$ and availability when I started. Here's the story...
> 
> 4 years ago I was on plowsite for the winter admiring Neige's videos and operation, like so many of us here. I wanted to put it in place here. At the same time I was in the process of buying a lawn care company. Made that deal in March/April 2010. The guy I bought the lawn business (all residential) from had never done snow before. It left me with a built in customer base to get started, but the purchase of the business and the first season of lawn work left my cashflow quite tight, along with the uncertainty of how many customers I could reasonably expect to sign up for snow. I wanted to get into it on the slow side, do it for 1 year and make sure I could handle what I took on, rather take on too much too fast and leave a sour taste to customers who were "new" to me as an owner.
> 
> In my area a seasonal lease on a toolcat was easier to find... and financial condition dictated a winter lease rather than buying. I didn't want to take on a large financed purchase as I was extended pretty far on the business purchase. So couple the easier toolcat lease vs. a tractor, and a bobcat blower costing me about half of what an inverted would run, along with that being the year before Image really got rolling as a dealer, so no "local" source for the inverted. The toolcat just made more sense logistically.
> 
> I did about 30 that first year, and now about 50 last season and current. I've stuck with the toolcat only because I still have the blower that's paid for, still get a cheap lease on the toolcat, and still am not in a great capital position to take the next step. But the end goal has always been tractor/inverted.
> 
> The 50 I'm at is about max for the rig I run. The only way I could realistically take more is to add from the most dense area of the route, and drop stragglers/outliers. I've gotten enough calls, referrals, general interest to feel confident that we could double the 50 without hardly any effort at all. Our service is top notch and neighbors are noticing. But now I'm at a spot where it's time to take the next step or watch somebody beat me to it. I was the first in my service area to use a blower of any kind (other than the 1 man show kind with walk-behinds). After guys saw my first year, now there's at least 2 other companies using toolcats, 1 has a pair of them. The tractor/inverted is either in place or in the works in neighboring towns, so if I don't do it now I'm running a big risk of not being first.
> 
> If I can't do it on my own for next season I may be able to partner up with a customer, believe it or not. One of my best customers loves our service and has offered on multiple occasions to do whatever he can to help grow the business... he actually had his own plow company 20+ years ago in college, and now has major $$ from unrelated business ventures. Not out of the realm of possibility for him to front the capital if/when I show him a solid business plan with financial prospects for the tractor model. This might be the right time make that move. Given the level of interest and satisfaction I've seen over the last 3 years, it's realistic to think if I had gone tractor/inverted from the beginning I might be looking to add my 2nd or even 3rd rig by now.


Thats a good post, and it sounds like you know what you're doing. If you think you're ready for a blower I'd be happy to help. You're right there are several inverted's in the area already, BUT it's a huge market also, so I wouldn't worry to much. Right now there is one other company in Fargo running them also, but I didn't worry because he's a friend. But now I have another local company coming to me to get prices for 2 units for next winter. At first I was like "oh ****, gonna be extra competition", but then I realized that I can't service the whole town anyways. And I'm in a much smaller market then you, so don't worry about being first, because they won't/can't get everyone or service everyone.


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## MogMan

I uploaded a new video, showcasing a long steep driveway, that can only be done with an inverted blower.

Also featured, the smoothest streets in North America.


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## excav8ter

MogMan;1611361 said:


> I uploaded a new video, showcasing a long steep driveway, that can only be done with an inverted blower.
> 
> Also featured, the smoothest streets in North America.


Yet another good video....

I had to hold on to my chair so i didn't fall off. :laughing:


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## MogMan

excav8ter;1611401 said:


> Yet another good video....
> 
> I had to hold on to my chair so i didn't fall off. :laughing:


This was filmed on the bad side of the tracks, the roads are the worst around there.

Gotta try to reduce tire pressure at the rear to limit all that bouncing


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## MRHORSEPOWER1

mnlefty;1611054 said:


> I'll reply with the why's for this Toolcat user... 2 main reasons for me are $$ and availability when I started. Here's the story...
> 
> 4 years ago I was on plowsite for the winter admiring Neige's videos and operation, like so many of us here. I wanted to put it in place here. At the same time I was in the process of buying a lawn care company. Made that deal in March/April 2010. The guy I bought the lawn business (all residential) from had never done snow before. It left me with a built in customer base to get started, but the purchase of the business and the first season of lawn work left my cashflow quite tight, along with the uncertainty of how many customers I could reasonably expect to sign up for snow. I wanted to get into it on the slow side, do it for 1 year and make sure I could handle what I took on, rather take on too much too fast and leave a sour taste to customers who were "new" to me as an owner.
> 
> In my area a seasonal lease on a toolcat was easier to find... and financial condition dictated a winter lease rather than buying. I didn't want to take on a large financed purchase as I was extended pretty far on the business purchase. So couple the easier toolcat lease vs. a tractor, and a bobcat blower costing me about half of what an inverted would run, along with that being the year before Image really got rolling as a dealer, so no "local" source for the inverted. The toolcat just made more sense logistically.
> 
> I did about 30 that first year, and now about 50 last season and current. I've stuck with the toolcat only because I still have the blower that's paid for, still get a cheap lease on the toolcat, and still am not in a great capital position to take the next step. But the end goal has always been tractor/inverted.
> 
> The 50 I'm at is about max for the rig I run. The only way I could realistically take more is to add from the most dense area of the route, and drop stragglers/outliers. I've gotten enough calls, referrals, general interest to feel confident that we could double the 50 without hardly any effort at all. Our service is top notch and neighbors are noticing. But now I'm at a spot where it's time to take the next step or watch somebody beat me to it. I was the first in my service area to use a blower of any kind (other than the 1 man show kind with walk-behinds). After guys saw my first year, now there's at least 2 other companies using toolcats, 1 has a pair of them. The tractor/inverted is either in place or in the works in neighboring towns, so if I don't do it now I'm running a big risk of not being first.
> 
> If I can't do it on my own for next season I may be able to partner up with a customer, believe it or not. One of my best customers loves our service and has offered on multiple occasions to do whatever he can to help grow the business... he actually had his own plow company 20+ years ago in college, and now has major $$ from unrelated business ventures. Not out of the realm of possibility for him to front the capital if/when I show him a solid business plan with financial prospects for the tractor model. This might be the right time make that move. Given the level of interest and satisfaction I've seen over the last 3 years, it's realistic to think if I had gone tractor/inverted from the beginning I might be looking to add my 2nd or even 3rd rig by now.


Good post. I'm pretty much small company (smaller than Steve (image) lol. It's tough out there, but got to try and think positive and work your way up even on snail pace like me. It's never easy, there's a lot of companies out there thinking BIG and buy all new stuff that they can get their hands on and try to drive other competition out of the way. I always had hard time building lawn clients around here that can help me buy 2nd driveway set up rig. I used snow seasonal money to help pay for my equipment. Tractor & inverted blower was the best investment I ever bought but they're not cheap. I agree with Steve on not worrying about not being the first. Trust me, I've always worry about losing my clients to another companies everyday but there's over 200K people living in my area. If your service is a top notch to your clients then you shouldn't be worry about it and you will increase more clients as time goes by.

Are you doing full service (sidewalks & walkways) for all of your snow clients? I've had horrible sidewalks issue every year because of subcontractor and/or employees not showing up or unable to work. Next year, I'm not offering sidewalks to snow only customers anymore. It's going to be hard to sell driveway only in my area but I'll have to try and see what happens. I might end up working for Steve LOL...if he'll let me use my own tractor...just kidding but who knows. Nobody can't predict the future. Just do your best and go from there. If I were you, I'd keep toolcat as a backup for anything such as snow pile blowing, etc.. It's always nice to have more snow equipment especially tractor/blower combo Thumbs Up.


----------



## IMAGE

MRHORSEPOWER1;1611578 said:


> Good post. I'm pretty much small company (smaller than Steve (image) lol. It's tough out there, but got to try and think positive and work your way up even on snail pace like me. It's never easy, there's a lot of companies out there thinking BIG and buy all new stuff that they can get their hands on and try to drive other competition out of the way. I always had hard time building lawn clients around here that can help me buy 2nd driveway set up rig. I used snow seasonal money to help pay for my equipment. Tractor & inverted blower was the best investment I ever bought but they're not cheap. I agree with Steve on not worrying about not being the first. Trust me, I've always worry about losing my clients to another companies everyday but there's over 200K people living in my area. If your service is a top notch to your clients then you shouldn't be worry about it and you will increase more clients as time goes by.
> 
> Are you doing full service (sidewalks & walkways) for all of your snow clients? I've had horrible sidewalks issue every year because of subcontractor and/or employees not showing up or unable to work. Next year, I'm not offering sidewalks to snow only customers anymore. It's going to be hard to sell driveway only in my area but I'll have to try and see what happens. I might end up working for Steve LOL...if he'll let me use my own tractor...just kidding but who knows. Nobody can't predict the future. Just do your best and go from there. If I were you, I'd keep toolcat as a backup for anything such as snow pile blowing, etc.. It's always nice to have more snow equipment especially tractor/blower combo Thumbs Up.


Paul you know the offer is always there if you'd like to work with me either as a sub or as an employee I'd be happy to work with you and make sure you're well taken care of. :salute:


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## MRHORSEPOWER1

IMAGE;1611653 said:


> Paul you know the offer is always there if you'd like to work with me either as a sub or as an employee I'd be happy to work with you and make sure you're well taken care of. :salute:


Thanks man! Thumbs Up


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## StuveCorp

I'm going to say it would be nice to be first to market but don't think it would be that bad to be second or even third? Lets be honest, I bet 95% of the current plow guys wouldn't go for a tractor/blower set up if their life depended on it... Maybe it would be easier to be the second guy, you don't have to educate the masses on the benefit?


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## IMAGE

StuveCorp;1612024 said:


> I'm going to say it would be nice to be first to market but don't think it would be that bad to be second or even third? Lets be honest, I bet 95% of the current plow guys wouldn't go for a tractor/blower set up if their life depended on it... Maybe it would be easier to be the second guy, you don't have to educate the masses on the benefit?


Possibly it would be easier after the customers are used to the practices. Last year was the first year with tractors and with the driveway stakes with our name on them.

Last year I had several customers asking if we could not put the markers on their driveway. and some even pulled them out (more then once!) and every week I would send a guy around to see which houses needed markers, at first thinking it was kids taking them. Found out it was the homeowners, when we started seeing some markers sticking out of the garbage, or laying up by the garage. Well I had to call those customers and tell them it was either the flags stay up, or here's your refund check, because we will only service driveways with our flags. Only had 1 customer take the refund, and it was more then likely because they were *****ing about the lack of snow anyways, and saw this as an "out". The rest of the customers understood it when I explained the reasoning. (it really does make it faster/easier to find your customer(s) on each street)

Anyways, fast forward to this year, and not one customer questioned the flags with our name that we put up. Even customers that were new this year, no questions, and no problems with them. I'm thinking its because last yr they saw their neighbors with them, and so they are used to them now.

Edit: Funny story, last year I kept getting calls asking if the house I had at xxx or yyy was for sale, or how much rent was, etc... seriously I got at least one of these calls every week for a different address. At first I would just say, sorry you must have the wrong number. But after a few calls I started to ask where they got my number, and they said the sign by the driveway! People were mistaking our snow flags! I kept getting those calls all winter, and I kept explaining that the flags were our snow markers. Well this year I might of got 1 call like that, maybe. So the general public has figured it out also what the flags are for.


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## Grassman09

MogMan;1607441 said:


> I uploaded 3 vids from recent outings.
> 
> All the driveway in this vid have a decent grade with barely room to blow snow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldnt have those contracts with a pickup/blade setup. Cant drop the snow on the street, strictly enforced around here.
> 
> Other 2 vids shows that big lots can be done with an inverted blower.


Do you think you could have done that faster with a blade on the tractor? That took you only 12 mins on so with the tractor. I know you are using what you got. Just curious.


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## MogMan

Grassman09;1612719 said:


> Do you think you could have done that faster with a blade on the tractor? That took you only 12 mins on so with the tractor. I know you are using what you got. Just curious.


Maybe faster but they dont allow to put snow from private property on the streets around here. With a blade, I still wouldnt have any place to put the snow at.

When I got the tractor, I inquired about a SHoule expandable blade and an undercarriage but with a blade in front, I wouldnt be able to turn in some of the tight alleys Im contracted to do.

Maybe Quicke loaders arms would be better but thats a bunch of monies

For the empty lots, definitely a blade would have been faster, but I dont have much of those under contract, this one was a on-call type of work.


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## Grassman09

I hear you on the tight turning. My thought was to have a blower on the back and take off the Horst blade when it was time to do driveways. Didn't work out due to the fact the hydro lines are a pia to get on and off and not enough clientele to warrant a blower. 

What width do most run? The 92" the most desired as the 102" can't get everywhere?


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## MogMan

Grassman09;1612777 said:


> I hear you on the tight turning. My thought was to have a blower on the back and take off the Horst blade when it was time to do driveways. Didn't work out due to the fact the hydro lines are a pia to get on and off and not enough clientele to warrant a blower.
> 
> What width do most run? The 92" the most desired as the 102" can't get everywhere?


In my case, 92" is the biggest I can use. Some streets with cars on both sides, I have only an inch of clearance on each side before I rip them cars's sideview mirrors


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## Golfpro21

if your doing mostly residential, 92" is the biggest you would want, any bigger and there will be lots of properties you cant touch that have a car on one side of driveway.


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## excav8ter

I was thinking about an 8 footer for myself and what I hope to do. I guess it will depend on the the tractor I end up with....if I can get enough people to commit prior to next season.


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## MetzEnterprizez

So.... This thread has been a HUGE eye opener for me and my small business! Thank you Everyone that has contributed to this thread and making it what it is today! And what your words, thoughts, aspirations, pros and cons, and experience have given not only to me, but every other person that has ever thought of an easier, more efficient way to run their business!!


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## PTSolutions

No problem, thats what the site is for, lots of knowledgeable guys on here. I sure learned alot since I started it.

I'm going to try something similar over in the commercial snow forum about the process of bidding from meeting the manager to pricing to equipment selection based on a large 30acre terminal I will be pursuing.


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## Herm Witte

*Shoule question*

We have been using our Shoule inverted blower for three winters and have snagged three manhole covers, each time bending up the bottom of the blower. The cutting edge on our Shoule comes in at a fairly aggressive angle to the plowing surface and cleans very nicely. Some of you have modified your Shoule so the cutting edge lays flat to the ground similar to the Normand. Would that modification minimize the incidents we have with manhole covers? Are any of you having issues, regardless of brand of inverted blower, with manhole covers as well?


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## MogMan

Herm Witte;1625149 said:


> We have been using our Shoule inverted blower for three winters and have snagged three manhole covers, each time bending up the bottom of the blower. The cutting edge on our Shoule comes in at a fairly aggressive angle to the plowing surface and cleans very nicely. Some of you have modified your Shoule so the cutting edge lays flat to the ground similar to the Normand. Would that modification minimize the incidents we have with manhole covers? Are any of you having issues, regardless of brand of inverted blower, with manhole covers as well?


I hit them all the time. Only thing I broke was a pin once because I unseated the manhole cover and it got fed to the blower. When I hit one, it barely dings the cutting edge. On my 3pt, on the lower links, theres a thingy that allows around an inch of play up/down, so that takes most of the hit. Its not a nice feeling for sure but nothing broken or bent yet. The blower is a Pronovost, where the cutting edge lays flat.


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## mdrohman

*Newbie Questions:*

I've been lurking on this forum for years but just joined today to ask some (long-winded) questions about this thread. This thread is great, by the way. Thanks for posting your experiences everyone. I've read every page and hope I'm not asking something that already posted.

Question 1: What do you guys do about getting close to garage doors on residential accounts? - I would assume the inverses would leave a couple feet of untouched snow by the door and that the traditional blowers (Toolcat - MNLefty) would leave a pile in front of the garage door. Do you leave this snow for the homeowner to take care of? Do you shovel it? Is anyone running one of the Pronovost X-Blades (and are they worth the cost?)? Or am I dramatizing the amount of snow actually left?

Question 2: Guys who do residential snowblowing. Between storms, do any of you do contract work for other companies cleaning up commercial or municipal areas to make extra money? Such as moving (eliminating) piles or widening roads that would normally be contracted to a wheel loader or bobcat. Is there a market for that or do most companies/cities seem to have the equipment they need already?

Question 3: Since the blade of a snowblower is square to the direction of travel, does it hook badly on cracks? - For example transitions from cement to asphalt or from road to driveway where there is a rain gutter. What happens when it hooks? Are you going so slow that you just stop without drama? I read about hooking the man hole covers but I would think that would be a problem whether you are using a plow or blower.

Question 4: For purchasing a specific snowblower, what do you guys look for in doing residential work? Impeller size? Auger sizes? Ribbon style auger or solid auger? What designs allow you to do more then others and what allow you to do less? I'm guessing most important would be a reliable, simple snowblower with good parts availability?

If you've made it this far, Thank you very much for reading. Thanks in advance for any input or ideas.

Matt

P.S. MNLefty, I live in SW Minneapolis and drive through Edina every day. I've had my eye out for a toolcat scurrying around during the storms. Haven't seen you all winter. You're probably further south then 50th. I'd love to see your operation in action.


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## blowerman

mdroham, glad to have you on the "switching to snowblower" website. Since I'm not in the mood to type, most of these questions have been answered here. Depending on time, we will all post responses again though. They are all good questions to ask and we will all answer them again for you. Give us time and keep reading.


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## IMAGE

Hey Matt, Good thread for a first post!

For getting close to garage doors you can put a "back blade" on the inverted blower. The back blade hangs off the back of the blower and becomes the furthest back part of the blower. With it you can get as close as you want to a garage door, within inches if you wanted. However even with a back blade I tell my guys to stay 1-2' away. It's quicker for them that way to not worry about getting really close. You can push snow backwards some with the back blade too, I've done it a few times and it works OK, but it's not like having a plow and shouldn't be a replacement for one. Just comes in handy for a quick touchup. That reminds me, with the pull blower and can use it like a box blade also, with the pto off, and pull snow around to get it past an obstacle, around a corner, etc...

I don't know about other guys, but I know my tractor only does it's route and nothing more. It pays for itself on that route, so I'm not looking to send it somewhere else chasing some extra hours. Maybe if I had a bunch of tractors I'd consider it, but likely if I had a bunch of tractors I'd just have one dedicated to that type of work. 

As for hooking things with the edges, I've heard of it happening, but I haven't had it happen. I'm sure at some point it will though. You're definately not moving at a creep speed so there is a chance for a hard hit. Hopefully no damage is caused but it can't be ruled out. 

Even doing residential work, these are commercial blowers. There isn't anything residential in their construction. They are built heavy duty to stand up to the abuse that commerical snow removal guys are going to put on them. Generally the bigger the impeller the better, because it makes it easier for the tractor to move the snow, and reduces the chances of plugging. The 3 main brands of blowers all have impellers and augers of similar sizes, or very close. However Normand is the only one with a Hardox steel impeller and Hardox frame. Deep snow, windrowed snow, heavy snow, frozen city plow ridges, they can handle it all. These blowers don't have anything 'residential' about them except that they are the best option for the snow professional to service residential accounts effeciently.

Definately if you have any questions you can call me directly also anytime. My cell is 218-205-7198. And yep, go ahead and keep asking these guys for info too. Lots of good users in this thread and they know their stuff.

Oh and this summer again we'll be at the SIMA show, and it's in MSP in June this year. You should come check out our booth and see one up close. I'll even get you a day pass to the show if you want.


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## IMAGE

Just an FYI if you're considering a blower purchase... We're offering Free Shipping and 10% discount during April on Normand blowers. Contact me for more info - 218-205-7198 or [email protected] - Thanks!


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## gene gls

How bad is it to use inverted blower on dirt road or driveways?


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## Herm Witte

gene gls;1629481 said:


> How bad is it to use inverted blower on dirt road or driveways?


Works great when frozen, lift off the ground a bit when not. Not a whole lot different than plowing a gravel lot.


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## blowerman

gene gls;1629481 said:


> How bad is it to use inverted blower on dirt road or driveways?


if it's not mud, not a problem. I've run mine on gravel with no issues. Similar to plows, it helps when the ground freezes. Soft conditions are a pain with any machine in snow, lift the 3point a little. 
Almost 90K views and no discussion on dirt or gravel?


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## gottabediesel

Catching up on my reading. Couple of hopefully helpful points to folks thinking about using a tractor. Don't think I saw anything mentioned on top link adjustment. That affects the cutting angle of the blower cutting blade depending on the blower model. In some cases with a steel blade, you can peel up ice if wanted or possibly create other unwanted problems. Its a simple adjustment that some folks just use to get the blower to fit.They also get loose. I've seen brutal driveway cleaning due to a loose top link that is packing snow rather than picking it up. They also can be adjusted to pack snow on dirt or gravel instead of adjusting down the shoes. I also noticed in some of the videos of New Hollands running with blowers partially up. In the NH 40 series tractors, there are accumulators in the 3 pt hitch for heavy loads due to bouncing that only work when the blower is fully up. If the blower is not fully up, the shock loading of a 1800 lb blower is transferred to the rocker arm assembly in the rear housing. The 50 series are a larger frame and may not have this issue. This little repair runs around $5,000 as the back end of the tractor needs to be split. People tend to forget how much energy is out at the the ends of the lift arms.


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## excav8ter

Well....hopefully i'm moving in the right direction...... I had a brief meeting with the management and attorney that oversee our association. Our development is a rather large golf course community that was just barely started when the economy just tanked around us. Now, we have new golf course management, and membership is on the rise. The bank, who took over during the bankruptcy, has gotten a new developer/builder, with deep pockets, to come in and work on a new marketing plan, and things seem to be turning around.

....So we talked briefly about snow removal.... we have a lot of problem with wind and drifting, but also the condominium owners do not want any piles of snow on their lawns, so we have to carry the snow down the road to some empty lots and stack it up in there. But on a normal winter we run out of room and have to get a loader to carry it away or stack it several times. I finally got to speak to the individual association board members about the benefits of snowblowing versus plowing. They are all interested in finally looking at making the switch to blowing, because there are some areas that, with plows, we have no choice but to stack the snow against the curb, which encroaches on the road width and makes them very narrow in some places. I explained how a blower will totally eliminate the piles, as well as maintaining the roads at nearly full width. They are all more than interested in going this way, as well as giving me a 3 year deal for snow removal.

Which brings me to start thinking about how to charge....the individual condo associations are all charged a "per time" rate, the single family residential drives are also "per time". The roads have always been by the hour, but vary, depending on the amount of snow and how much wind there is, from 3 hours to as much as 6 to 9 hours a day for plowing and keeping drifts clear. 

Should I go hourly on the tractor, which I'm guessing will be around $80/hour or should i try to go with a per time rate for the roads, with and hourly for coming back for clean up and maintainence? The tractor blower will be on site for the winter, inside a garage, and probably used on some other sites, after the developement is done.

Also, having never owned a tractor, what type of transmision should I be looking for? I don't want to have to push in a clutch everytime i go from forward to reverse. I am leaning towards a John Deere 5095 series because the dealership near me is owned by a good friend of my dad.

How long does a cutting edge last on a blower, when doing longer runs on roads? Can i adjust the angle of attack on the blower to allow some snow to pack down, and let the blower ride on the packed snow? Or is cutting edge wear fairly minimal, that i shouldn't worry too much about it?.....sorry for the long post....


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## leon

*snow blower useage*



excav8ter;1638085 said:


> Well....hopefully i'm moving in the right direction...... I had a brief meeting with the management and attorney that oversee our association. Our development is a rather large golf course community that was just barely started when the economy just tanked around us. Now, we have new golf course management, and membership is on the rise. The bank, who took over during the bankruptcy, has gotten a new developer/builder, with deep pockets, to come in and work on a new marketing plan, and things seem to be turning around.
> 
> ....So we talked briefly about snow removal.... we have a lot of problem with wind and drifting, but also the condominium owners do not want any piles of snow on their lawns, so we have to carry the snow down the road to some empty lots and stack it up in there. But on a normal winter we run out of room and have to get a loader to carry it away or stack it several times. I finally got to speak to the individual association board members about the benefits of snowblowing versus plowing. They are all interested in finally looking at making the switch to blowing, because there are some areas that, with plows, we have no choice but to stack the snow against the curb, which encroaches on the road width and makes them very narrow in some places. I explained how a blower will totally eliminate the piles, as well as maintaining the roads at nearly full width. They are all more than interested in going this way, as well as giving me a 3 year deal for snow removal.
> 
> Which brings me to start thinking about how to charge....the individual condo associations are all charged a "per time" rate, the single family residential drives are also "per time". The roads have always been by the hour, but vary, depending on the amount of snow and how much wind there is, from 3 hours to as much as 6 to 9 hours a day for plowing and keeping drifts clear.
> 
> Should I go hourly on the tractor, which I'm guessing will be around $80/hour or should i try to go with a per time rate for the roads, with and hourly for coming back for clean up and maintainence? The tractor blower will be on site for the winter, inside a garage, and probably used on some other sites, after the developement is done.
> 
> Also, having never owned a tractor, what type of transmision should I be looking for? I don't want to have to push in a clutch everytime i go from forward to reverse. I am leaning towards a John Deere 5095 series because the dealership near me is owned by a good friend of my dad.
> 
> How long does a cutting edge last on a blower, when doing longer runs on roads? Can i adjust the angle of attack on the blower to allow some snow to pack down, and let the blower ride on the packed snow? Or is cutting edge wear fairly minimal, that i shouldn't worry too much about it?.....sorry for the long post....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are entering this on a long term basis perhaps anew UNIMOG will be a better fit because the snow clearer will be directly in front of you and you can have cameras added front side and rear to aid you in all conditions.

The operators station for the UNIMOG can be moved to the left or right to permit easier operation at ditch lines and road shoulders.

Adding a second three point hitch will permit you to carry a 8 foot rear blade to use as a snow plow. first and then use to the snow clearer to remove the windrows snow.

The Unimog can travel at highway speeds versus the tractors limited speeds.

I deally what you should have is a Pronovost PXPL model with the hydraulic scraper that permits scraping right down to the pavement.

The PXPL will permit you to use a standard hydro transmission tractor effectively as long as you have a swiveling seat on the tractor and of course a seat with air suspension is ideal.

The scraper edge will only last as long as the length of time it is used. whether it is hardened steel or normal grade steel. The scraper edge on hydraulic scraper is tivar If I remember correctly.

The PXPL will permit you to back right up to a garage and or car and pull ethe snow away from it when you drive forward and blow it away also at the same time as the snow is being scraped as you advance.

Having hydraulic chute and spout control is a must and you need to plan on at least three remotes to avoid plumbing issues with a separate valve in the cabin.

What you mean is the scraper height not the angle of attack as the term means something else entirely.

The wear shoes on the snow blower determine the depth of cut that the snow blower creates. The road and driveways condition are going to determine the wear on the shoes and scraper edges entirely.

If you will be allowed to leave snow pack all the better but if they insist on using salt you will have issues with puddling and remelt and then ice and thats not good!!!!

I would PM Paul Vanderzon and chat about a PXPL snow clearer for your use.


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## excav8ter

Thanks Leon....a Unimog is going to be too costly for me I'm afraid.

I do plan on getting 3 remotes on the tractor.

Leaving a bit of snow pack is not a problem, the only place that gets salt occasionaly, is the clubhouse round-a-bout.

I looked at the PXPL blowers, but I am leaning towards a Normand blower.

Most of the drives will get pulled to the road with my 14' Ebling on my F350 before that truck heads to a different site. Then i Would blow the snow off the roads with the tractor blower. The residential customers take care of shoveling the bit of snow that is left behind in front of the overhead doors. For the condominium drives we shovel infront of the doors and also the sidewalks.

Road speed is not a huge deal, because the tractor on has to go a few miles, if it even leaves the main site.

Am I on the right track with the tractor? Can I go smaller? Occasionally we get some drifting where the snow is 2-3' deep...


----------



## OrganicsL&L

Funny that you posted on this today, I just started to think snow for next winter! What is the HP on that JD? The machine I used this past winter had 85 pto HP, and it handled everything easily....we had a blizzard in early Feb. and it had no problems handling the 32" of snow or the 6-8' drifts that we encountered.

You will want a hydraulic shuttle for the trans, then you don't have to shift much at all. Once you find the gear/range that works best, its all done with the shuttle. 

The blower on the tractor was a SHoule, and it was nice. I leased the set up that I had with a New Holland T5050 tractor and it was fine. I plan to purchase a new machine this year and that will be a Kubota M100x. The smaller framed New Holland was a little light for my liking, and it only had 1 lift cylinder on the 3pt hitch. That was starting to get a little sticky at the end of the season, and I did read that they start to get jumpy.

Not sure where that JD tractor falls in terms of size, but if you can, I would recommend going with a larger framed machine if you can. You will find that you can easily do everything with these set ups. I would guess that you can slightly adjust the attack angle on the Normand, but I'm not sure. I will also be going with a Normand.

Good luck! Keep us posted and don't hesitate to give me a call again.

Rick


----------



## excav8ter

OrganicsL&L;1638100 said:


> Funny that you posted on this today, I just started to think snow for next winter! What is the HP on that JD? The machine I used this past winter had 85 pto HP, and it handled everything easily....we had a blizzard in early Feb. and it had no problems handling the 32" of snow or the 6-8' drifts that we encountered.
> 
> You will want a hydraulic shuttle for the trans, then you don't have to shift much at all. Once you find the gear/range that works best, its all done with the shuttle.
> 
> The blower on the tractor was a SHoule, and it was nice. I leased the set up that I had with a New Holland T5050 tractor and it was fine. I plan to purchase a new machine this year and that will be a Kubota M100x. The smaller framed New Holland was a little light for my liking, and it only had 1 lift cylinder on the 3pt hitch. That was starting to get a little sticky at the end of the season, and I did read that they start to get jumpy.
> 
> Not sure where that JD tractor falls in terms of size, but if you can, I would recommend going with a larger framed machine if you can. You will find that you can easily do everything with these set ups. I would guess that you can slightly adjust the attack angle on the Normand, but I'm not sure. I will also be going with a Normand.
> 
> Good luck! Keep us posted and don't hesitate to give me a call again.
> 
> Rick


Thanks Rick.... isn't it funny....it's just hitting the 80's here, and now I am thinking about snow....but I have a lot of work to do, to get everyone here on board with blowing.

I think the 5095M is 85 on the PTO. Not sure if thats considered a large frame tractor or not? I don't want to get too deep into this, but do not want to end up with too small of a tractor either.

The developement that I have been working on is also asking about plowing/blowing about 3-4 acres of parking lots, a fairly tight round-a-bout that goes under a large canopy/entry area for the clubhouse, restaraunt, bar and banquet rooms. There is only 16 parking spaces up there, but after 3 snow events, I lose 5 or so spaces. 
I could use the tractor on another small development, a working farm for autistic kids and young men. That place takes a minimum of 8 passes with a plow, on the roads, then there is 3 parking lots that are about 60x225 each, with plenty of room to blow snow, and currently 6 driveways.

I think a tractor is the BEST solution, in the long run, for this development. I just hope I can justify the cost.....

What do you think I will have into a blower? I have not even checked prices yet....


----------



## OrganicsL&L

I am figuring between $60-70k for the m100x with blower, but haven't begun negotiations with the Kubota dealer yet. I plan to begin that process after July 4th.

Go to my You tube Channel and look for a couple of videos that show me blowing snow in a parking lot situation....You should have no problem with that either, or you can add a pusher to the front, but you will lose some of your manuverability.

You Tube: 




and this one: 




One more in the dark:


----------



## IMAGE

excav8ter;1638088 said:


> Thanks Leon....a Unimog is going to be too costly for me I'm afraid.
> 
> I do plan on getting 3 remotes on the tractor.
> 
> Leaving a bit of snow pack is not a problem, the only place that gets salt occasionaly, is the clubhouse round-a-bout.
> 
> I looked at the PXPL blowers, but I am leaning towards a Normand blower.
> 
> Most of the drives will get pulled to the road with my 14' Ebling on my F350 before that truck heads to a different site. Then i Would blow the snow off the roads with the tractor blower. The residential customers take care of shoveling the bit of snow that is left behind in front of the overhead doors. For the condominium drives we shovel infront of the doors and also the sidewalks.
> 
> Road speed is not a huge deal, because the tractor on has to go a few miles, if it even leaves the main site.
> 
> Am I on the right track with the tractor? Can I go smaller? Occasionally we get some drifting where the snow is 2-3' deep...





excav8ter;1638085 said:


> Well....hopefully i'm moving in the right direction...... I had a brief meeting with the management and attorney that oversee our association. Our development is a rather large golf course community that was just barely started when the economy just tanked around us. Now, we have new golf course management, and membership is on the rise. The bank, who took over during the bankruptcy, has gotten a new developer/builder, with deep pockets, to come in and work on a new marketing plan, and things seem to be turning around.
> 
> ....So we talked briefly about snow removal.... we have a lot of problem with wind and drifting, but also the condominium owners do not want any piles of snow on their lawns, so we have to carry the snow down the road to some empty lots and stack it up in there. But on a normal winter we run out of room and have to get a loader to carry it away or stack it several times. I finally got to speak to the individual association board members about the benefits of snowblowing versus plowing. They are all interested in finally looking at making the switch to blowing, because there are some areas that, with plows, we have no choice but to stack the snow against the curb, which encroaches on the road width and makes them very narrow in some places. I explained how a blower will totally eliminate the piles, as well as maintaining the roads at nearly full width. They are all more than interested in going this way, as well as giving me a 3 year deal for snow removal.
> 
> Which brings me to start thinking about how to charge....the individual condo associations are all charged a "per time" rate, the single family residential drives are also "per time". The roads have always been by the hour, but vary, depending on the amount of snow and how much wind there is, from 3 hours to as much as 6 to 9 hours a day for plowing and keeping drifts clear.
> 
> Should I go hourly on the tractor, which I'm guessing will be around $80/hour or should i try to go with a per time rate for the roads, with and hourly for coming back for clean up and maintainence? The tractor blower will be on site for the winter, inside a garage, and probably used on some other sites, after the developement is done.
> 
> Also, having never owned a tractor, what type of transmision should I be looking for? I don't want to have to push in a clutch everytime i go from forward to reverse. I am leaning towards a John Deere 5095 series because the dealership near me is owned by a good friend of my dad.
> 
> How long does a cutting edge last on a blower, when doing longer runs on roads? Can i adjust the angle of attack on the blower to allow some snow to pack down, and let the blower ride on the packed snow? Or is cutting edge wear fairly minimal, that i shouldn't worry too much about it?.....sorry for the long post....





excav8ter;1638107 said:


> Thanks Rick.... isn't it funny....it's just hitting the 80's here, and now I am thinking about snow....but I have a lot of work to do, to get everyone here on board with blowing.
> 
> I think the 5095M is 85 on the PTO. Not sure if thats considered a large frame tractor or not? I don't want to get too deep into this, but do not want to end up with too small of a tractor either.
> 
> The developement that I have been working on is also asking about plowing/blowing about 3-4 acres of parking lots, a fairly tight round-a-bout that goes under a large canopy/entry area for the clubhouse, restaraunt, bar and banquet rooms. There is only 16 parking spaces up there, but after 3 snow events, I lose 5 or so spaces.
> I could use the tractor on another small development, a working farm for autistic kids and young men. That place takes a minimum of 8 passes with a plow, on the roads, then there is 3 parking lots that are about 60x225 each, with plenty of room to blow snow, and currently 6 driveways.
> 
> I think a tractor is the BEST solution, in the long run, for this development. I just hope I can justify the cost.....
> 
> What do you think I will have into a blower? I have not even checked prices yet....


You are on the right path. A 5095M is a very nice tractor and will handle the blower with ease. You could go with either the N92-280HINV or the N102-310INV. The 102" wide blower will handle the streets better because of its bigger impeller fan and wider width it will take less passes. The extra width makes it tighter in driveways, but you can still work with it.

You might want to consider putting a blade on the tractor also. I had the chance to see the Metal Pless blade this last week and it looks like a winner to me. Paul Vanderzon can tell you more about it, I'm sure he'll post soon.

You can adjust the attack angle on the Normand blower, you adjust it via the top link. The more you lean it forward (aggressive), the better it scrapes. If you're going to be doing streets you should get the Hardox Steel cutting edge and skid shoe kit for sure. They will last longer than the standard edge. You can flip the edge about half way through it's life for a fresh edge.

Here are a couple pictures of the tractor we had at the SIMA show last week. It would be an ideal setup for both blowing and plowing. (Even in Green)


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

So we are getting ready to start this service up this winter. We have been talking with Paul and doing our homework. We just got a great deal on a John Deere 5410 and we are working on preselling to our residential landscape maintenance clients. This thread is incredible-

For those in the business--we have focused on other winter work and have no plows for our trucks to back us up. My plan is to sell about a tractor and a half worth of driveways so the lightly "loaded" tractor can be our back up.

For weight do you all load the tires, use suitcase weights, wheel weights--what works the best?


----------



## Herm Witte

excav8ter;1638085 said:


> Should I go hourly on the tractor, which I'm guessing will be around $80/hour or should i try to go with a per time rate for the roads, with and hourly for coming back for clean up and maintenance? The tractor blower will be on site for the winter, inside a garage, and probably used on some other sites, after the developement is done.
> 
> I don't know or suggest that you change you pricing structure assuming you already have one. You are just using different equipment to accomplish the same task while you need to keep in mind that cycle times will be very consistent whether you have one inch or six inches of snow. You also will also likely save your client the expense of relocating snow.
> 
> Also, having never owned a tractor, what type of transmission should I be looking for? I don't want to have to push in a clutch every time i go from forward to reverse. I am leaning towards a John Deere 5095 series because the dealership near me is owned by a good friend of my dad.
> 
> The JD 5095 with a left hand reverser should suit you well. Make sure you tell your sales person I said so.  The ergonomics of the interior of the tractor are pretty important to operating a blower with a minimum of fatigue.
> 
> How long does a cutting edge last on a blower, when doing longer runs on roads? Can i adjust the angle of attack on the blower to allow some snow to pack down, and let the blower ride on the packed snow? Or is cutting edge wear fairly minimal, that i shouldn't worry too much about it?.....sorry for the long post....


We have yet to wear out our cutting edge on our Shoule. The Normand also held up for a full winter although we did not play with the attack angle and should have. Replacing a cutting edge yearly would not be and is not an obstacle for me.

Join us at MNLA's 4th Annual Snow Summit at Hope College on August 8. Paul VanderZon will be joining us and speaking on the topic; "Rethinking Residential". Check oput the following link; http://www.mnla.org/event/4th_annual_snow_ice_summit. You may also go to MNLA.org and access the information there. Feel free to PM me with any additional questions or set up a time and I will show you our blowers - they are in Hudsonville.


----------



## excav8ter

Thanks Herm.... I have my clients in the golf course developement pretty much convinced that this IS the way to go, especially when I tell them i don't need to drive on their grass. They LOVE that idea. It's getting them to commit to a 3 or 4 year deal to justify the cost for me. I have quite a bit of other plowing for me and one other guy, but the tractor will primarily be at one place....however, I do have 3 other small developments that I have approached with the blowing idea, and they are all quite excited about it.


----------



## excav8ter

.....So what should i expect to pay for a "nicely optioned" 5101E or 5100E tractor?


----------



## excav8ter

I know that I would like to have 3 rear remotes for the blower....but would 2 rear and 2 mid remotes work ok? I found a beautiful 5093M with 46 hours for sale for $39,900.00....the new 5101E that i got a price for was $51,000.00. At that price, to me and my partner, it's like getting a nearly new tractor, and getting the blower for free.


----------



## leon

*snow blower etc.*



excav8ter;1639865 said:


> I know that I would like to have 3 rear remotes for the blower....but would 2 rear and 2 mid remotes work ok? I found a beautiful 5093M with 46 hours for sale for $39,900.00....the new 5101E that i got a price for was $51,000.00. At that price, to me and my partner, it's like getting a nearly new tractor, and getting the blower for free.


The mid mounted remotes are just that;
for side mounted implements like a 
sickle bar, weed badger, cultivator or 
a front end loader.

I wouls ask the dealer how much it
would cost to add the two rear remotes 
to this unit simply because its a hosing 
nightmare waiting to happen
(broken lines from ice accumulation).

Unless you are parking this thing inside in
a warm barn everynight I would not even 
consider running hoses as they will be damaged.


----------



## leon

*snwo blower*



SDLandscapes VT;1638432 said:


> So we are getting ready to start this service up this winter. We have been talking with Paul and doing our homework. We just got a great deal on a John Deere 5410 and we are working on preselling to our residential landscape maintenance clients. This thread is incredible-
> 
> For those in the business--we have focused on other winter work and have no plows for our trucks to back us up. My plan is to sell about a tractor and a half worth of driveways so the lightly "loaded" tractor can be our back up.
> 
> For weight do you all load the tires, use suitcase weights, wheel weights--what works the best?


_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Get the rears loaded with windshield washer fluid, add suitcase weights and chains for the rear wheels and you will be fine.

Barrels of windshield washer fluid will cost much less than Rim Guard
or Calcium ballast and you will only be short a few pounds per wheel by using windsheild washer fluid.

You should also invest in a set of HID lights for the rear and tilt them downward to illuminate the area in front of and around the snow blower for night work as the snow will distort your field of vision if you have a heavy snow fall while working.


----------



## excav8ter

leon;1639873 said:


> _________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Get the rears loaded with windshield washer fluid, add suitcase weights and chains for the rear wheels and you will be fine.
> 
> Barrels of windshield washer fluid will cost much less than Rim Guard
> or Calcium ballast and you will only be short a few pounds per wheel by using windsheild washer fluid.
> 
> You should also invest in a set of HID lights for the rear and tilt them downward to illuminate the area in front of and around the snow blower for night work as the snow will distort your field of vision if you have a heavy snow fall while working.


Do you feel it totally necessary to have fluid in the tires, or suitcase weights? I am basically running on flat ground. Some minor slopes on the driveways, but nothing too bad.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

excav8ter;1639876 said:


> Do you feel it totally necessary to have fluid in the tires, or suitcase weights? I am basically running on flat ground. Some minor slopes on the driveways, but nothing too bad.


Most of the driveways we are looking at come right out of Paul's very difficult drives video. I need all the help I can get


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Also how do you guys train your operators pre season before the snow?


----------



## leon

*snow blower*



SDLandscapes VT;1639882 said:


> Also how do you guys train your operators pre season before the snow?


I would contact Paul Vanderzon via the forum here and ask him how he trains his employees for the coming winter.


----------



## leon

*snow blower et al.*



excav8ter;1639876 said:


> Do you feel it totally necessary to have fluid in the tires, or suitcase weights? I am basically running on flat ground. Some minor slopes on the driveways, but nothing too bad.


What you are looking for in any rig is the following.

1. traction 
2.adhesion
3. wide field of view
4. zero slippage
5. traction
6.adhesion

When you get stuck on ice you will not be going anaywhere and you need the traction of chains AND ballast

If you have low or no traction, you have low or no adhesion and you cannot move into snow banks or shoulders that have been piled up and frozen.

Locomotives have sanders that drop sand ahead of the drive wheels and that is how they gain traction.

Even though I have small tractor JD115 with two wheel drive and s fourty two inch two stage snow caster, 82 pounds of suitcase weights anf snow chains the physics are the same.

I put 5 gallons of WWF in each rear and nothing stops me now when I am doing work on sod driveways or broken blacktop and the liquid ballast makes it easy to drive into packed snow fall.

You can have all the power you need but you still need adhesion!!

AND do not let them sell you wheel rims unless they are cast wheel rims, the less expensive corrugated steel rims do not last long.

If you can afford a set of the Nokkian snow tires I would also buy them but thats up to you.


----------



## excav8ter

leon;1639892 said:


> What you are looking for in any rig is the following.
> 
> 1. traction
> 2.adhesion
> 3. wide field of view
> 4. zero slippage
> 5. traction
> 6.adhesion
> 
> When you get stuck on ice you will not be going anaywhere and you need the traction of chains AND ballast
> 
> If you have low or no traction, you have low or no adhesion and you cannot move into snow banks or shoulders that have been piled up and frozen.
> 
> Locomotives have sanders that drop sand ahead of the drive wheels and that is how they gain traction.
> 
> Even though I have small tractor JD115 with two wheel drive and s fourty two inch two stage snow caster, 82 pounds of suitcase weights anf snow chains the physics are the same.
> 
> I put 5 gallons of WWF in each rear and nothing stops me now when I am doing work on sod driveways or broken blacktop and the liquid ballast makes it easy to drive into packed snow fall.
> 
> You can have all the power you need but you still need adhesion!!
> 
> AND do not let them sell you wheel rims unless they are cast wheel rims, the less expensive corrugated steel rims do not last long.
> 
> If you can afford a set of the Nokkian snow tires I would also buy them but thats up to you.


I will have WWF put in the tires and add some suitcase weights too. Chains are probably not going to happen....unless they do no damage, and can be run on the road from site to site.


----------



## fendt716

get all the hdy outlets you get now you will need them soon later. their much cheaper now then 5 years later. every tractor we buy all the outlets that we can get on front, mid and rear. i would add rear wheel weights and not fluid. easier to fix a flat in the middle of the night. we have jd2355 with 10 foot root plow. that we plow a kmart with and need chains about 1 time ever 2 years. the tractor you are looking at is 4wd? the fendt tractors we run have horst 10-16 or 12-18 wing plows or 9 or 10 foot blower on front to load trucks. never ran chains plowing but if blowing, that has a very iceie bottom we chain the front tires gives you more control. all the tractors have hoses run from rear outlets to the front so we outlets in the front. fendt only gives you 1 outlet in front so we add 3-5 outlets. no problems with hoses. put hoses old firehose 2 or 3 lines per firehose zip tie to bottom of tractor. ice or snow build up doesn't bother them. all plows and blower are front 3pth mounts.


----------



## fendt716

if not going to use chains. here is idea that works if you have holes or spaces in cast centers. cut a light chain to go around tire and rim attach chain hook leave 3 or 4 links extra. about 3 to 6 per side will get you out of a jam.


----------



## excav8ter

Found out there is a Pronovost dealer not far from me....but I am curious about an Anderson reversable blower I saw on YouTube. ...similar to the Artix blower but the discharge shute is on the right hand side....I like the looks of that set up a LOT. Anyone here have experience with the Anderson?


----------



## excav8ter

Well, we are all set with a 3 year deal to blow at my big HOA! I got the chance to pick Paul up at the airport today, and show him what my current route looks like and get his opinion on whether we are on the right path or not. With the Input from Paul, we may actually be able to take on more than I figured.....I have 5 other small sites that we may be able to add to our customer base as well. Time to get the tractor picked out and find a blower..... VERY EXCITED.

Thanks Paul! 

P.S.... glad you enjoyed the "Smoke and Fire" cheeseburger.


----------



## cet

excav8ter;1641150 said:


> Well, we are all set with a 3 year deal to blow at my big HOA! I got the chance to pick Paul up at the airport today, and show him what my current route looks like and get his opinion on whether we are on the right path or not. With the Input from Paul, we may actually be able to take on more than I figured.....I have 5 other small sites that we may be able to add to our customer base as well. Time to get the tractor picked out and find a blower..... VERY EXCITED.
> 
> Thanks Paul!
> 
> P.S.... glad you enjoyed the "Smoke and Fire" cheeseburger.


I'm sure Paul can get the blower you want.


----------



## MIDTOWNPC

fendt716;1639911 said:


> get all the hdy outlets you get now you will need them soon later. their much cheaper now then 5 years later. every tractor we buy all the outlets that we can get on front, mid and rear. i would add rear wheel weights and not fluid. easier to fix a flat in the middle of the night. we have jd2355 with 10 foot root plow. that we plow a kmart with and need chains about 1 time ever 2 years. the tractor you are looking at is 4wd? the fendt tractors we run have horst 10-16 or 12-18 wing plows or 9 or 10 foot blower on front to load trucks. never ran chains plowing but if blowing, that has a very iceie bottom we chain the front tires gives you more control. all the tractors have hoses run from rear outlets to the front so we outlets in the front. fendt only gives you 1 outlet in front so we add 3-5 outlets. no problems with hoses. put hoses old firehose 2 or 3 lines per firehose zip tie to bottom of tractor. ice or snow build up doesn't bother them. all plows and blower are front 3pth mounts.


The old firehose is a great idea.


----------



## mr_tiggy

Does anyone have any experience with the Normand Function + snow blower? I am wanting to know how well it works blowing snow while driving forward. Aslo, how fast does the blade take to switch positions? It doesn't seems like it would be as ideal/quick as the PXPL on driveways. The reason I am considering the normand over the pxpl is that I have a dealer in my province and I do not for the provonost. Also, it is a couple thousand cheaper. Hopefully someone has used one of these and can share their experience.
Thanks


----------



## schrader

We have several guys running both around here, if you are looking for a driveway blower the PXPL is for you. It is just faster and easier to get close to the doors, the Normand needs to be picked up swing the blade around then put back down. Most guys doing gravel like the Normand better because you can use the blade to keep the blower off the ground a bit. Hope that helps.


----------



## mr_tiggy

Yes that does help. I think I already knew the answer to which was better, guess I just needed a second opinion. It will just be a little bit of a pain to purchase the PXPL and not sure how it will be if i ever need parts. Dang thing just cost so much more than a standard snow blower, pretty hard to swallow.
Oh, and does anyone here use the T4.75 New Holland. It looks like a promising candidate for snow blowing.


----------



## IMAGE

mr_tiggy;1641987 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the Normand Function + snow blower? I am wanting to know how well it works blowing snow while driving forward. Aslo, how fast does the blade take to switch positions? It doesn't seems like it would be as ideal/quick as the PXPL on driveways. The reason I am considering the normand over the pxpl is that I have a dealer in my province and I do not for the provonost. Also, it is a couple thousand cheaper. Hopefully someone has used one of these and can share their experience.
> Thanks


One thing to remember if you didn't know already, the PXPL only blows snow while backing up, it doesnt blow snow while driving forward. The Normand blows while going either direction.


----------



## mr_tiggy

I have read through this thread once already(currently reading again) and I did see your earlier post about the PXPL not blowing snow while driving forward. Just from looking at the two units in pictures I don't see how the PXPL couldn't also blow snow while traveling forward. I would have thought the PXPL would be more capable as it has the flap at the back to help contain snow a little better. I have not seen either in person, does the Normand have a slope on the inside of the blade to help move the snow upwards to the auger? and the PXPL is just simply straight faced on the inside and does not direct the snow towards the auger? Personally I would love to see a video of both the units traveling forward blowing snow, does anyone have access to one or know where one is located on the the internet? I have looked but have come up empty on the Normand. Provonost has some great videos on their website, but they do not attempt to show the PXPL trying to blow any amount driving forward.....which does lend to the fact it must not perform well going forward.


----------



## Herm Witte

mr_tiggy;1642128 said:


> Yes that does help. I think I already knew the answer to which was better, guess I just needed a second opinion. It will just be a little bit of a pain to purchase the PXPL and not sure how it will be if i ever need parts. Dang thing just cost so much more than a standard snow blower, pretty hard to swallow.
> Oh, and does anyone here use the T4.75 New Holland. It looks like a promising candidate for snow blowing.


Used one last winter with an inverted blower. I don't think it is the best option. Found my self having to shift to a lower range far too frequently in an effort to get the job done efficiently. Most likely not quite enough PTO HP.


----------



## mr_tiggy

Thanks Herm, I think in one of your previous posts you were using a 92" Shoule. Was that on the T4.75? I was thinking of going with a 86" PXPL. By the recommended HP Provonost suggest this should be on the money. I had thought about going to a 92" but probable a little too big. 
SNOWBLOWERS
Model PXPL-86 *PXPL-86-92* PXPL-92 PXPL-92-98
HP recommended 50 à 75 ch *50 à 75 ch* 75 à 125 ch 75 à 125 ch
Working width 86" *92"* 92" 98"
http://www.pronovost.qc.ca/pxpla.html

Does anyone know what the PXPL 86-92 is? Like what size is it actually?


----------



## Herm Witte

mr_tiggy;1642288 said:


> Thanks Herm, I think in one of your previous posts you were using a 92" Shoule. Was that on the T4.75? I was thinking of going with a 86" PXPL. By the recommended HP Provonost suggest this should be on the money. I had thought about going to a 92" but probable a little too big.
> SNOWBLOWERS
> Model PXPL-86 *PXPL-86-92* PXPL-92 PXPL-92-98
> HP recommended 50 à 75 ch *50 à 75 ch* 75 à 125 ch 75 à 125 ch
> Working width 86" *92"* 92" 98"
> http://www.pronovost.qc.ca/pxpla.html
> 
> Does anyone know what the PXPL 86-92 is? Like what size is it actually?


I used a 92" Normand on the t.475. I really prefer the Normand over the Shoule.


----------



## mr_tiggy

Well through my continued search I managed to find a Normand Function + in action. It is a good concept but sure seems like it's a little slow while traveling forward and I can see it leaving some snow behind as it spits out the back a little. The blade moves pretty quick though which is a plus.











I guess now it's either dedicated inverted or pxpl....thinking it might be easier on the neck with the inverted.


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## alcs

I run A PXPL 82-96

Takes a bit to get used to.
It does pick up snow driving forward, just not as fast as driving reverse, so you may end up with snow still in blower. just go forward lower , drive backward and its gone.

By the way very heavy snow blower. almost one ton of weight.
tymusic


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## mr_tiggy

alcs;1642503 said:


> I run A PXPL 82-96


Do you mean 86-92?
If so, what is the difference between that and the pxpl 86 and pxpl 92? why does that one have both 86 and 92 in its title?


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## alcs

yes, sorry.
Was just excited someone asked a question about the pxpl. lol

The local dealer did not know what the difference was.
When i looked it up the only difference was weight ,and hp recomendations. the 92 required min of 75hp to 125 hp to run.
the 86/92 required 50 to 75 hp to run.
I run mine on a kubota m108x with 100 pto hp.

Make sure this blower goes on a large tractor and not a mini or compact tractor.
Pronovost told me the compact tractors do not handle the weight very well or the stress in the tractor frames.
tymusic


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## mr_tiggy

So if anyone was curious........."Only difference between the model PXPL-86 and PXPL-86-92 is PXPL-86 is 86” wide and PXPL-86-92 is 92” wide.

Same as model PXPL-92 is 92” wide and PXPL-92-98 is 98” wide.

The PXPL-86 and PXPL-86-92 uses a 16 ½ “ diameter snow auger and PXPL-92 and PXPL-92-98 uses a 19 ½”

Diameter snow auger." I presume the fan size might be a different size as well?


----------



## mr_tiggy

Just wondering if anyone knows a dealer for Pronovost out west in Manitoba or better yet Saskatchewan? I think I would be looking at the PXPL-86 and PXPL-86-92. I don't believe I will be buying a big enough tractor to support the larger PXPL -92


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## alcs

According to pronovost web site

CRAWFORD'S WEST INC.
5709 - 48 Avenue
Camrose, Alberta
T4V 0J9
Phone 1-780-672-2471
Fax 1-780-672-2470

and

STARLINE EQUIPMENT SALES LTD.
Hay equipment, Agland products
Bale Handlers, SilaTubes, Agland Macerator
3906-84 Ave
Leduc, Alberta
T9E 8M6
Phone 1-780-986-5548
Toll Free 1-888-601-6611

closest you have is alberta my friend.
And if they do not have a pxpl in stock.
I had to order mine in March when i bought it 4 years ago.
Hope this helps you out.


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## Piston

Like Mrtiggy, I'm also interested in the NH T4.75 tractor to run a blower. 

Herm, I don't know if you remember or not, but I spoke with you on the phone last year regarding the 4.75 with a Shoule 492 blower setup, and I remember you saying it didn't quite have enough oomph to run that blower effectively. 

Do you think that tractor would handle an 82" Normand much better? My plans are for a 12X12 hydro shuttle transmission with 3 rear remotes. Are the 700lbs of front suitcase weights that NH offers recommended?

On the 4.75, did you have any problems with fogging if the windows? 

Lastly, and this may or may not belong here, I found a decent deal on a Pronovost 80" rear blower, not inverted. Although I realize it wouldn't be as efficient as an inverted, would it be a good way to get my feet wet sortaspeak? It would be cheaper than buying a brand new inverted, then if business did well, I could add an inverted next year? 

It's funny, most of you guys have a problem convincing your CUSTOMERS that blowing is better (until they see it for themselves). I have a problem convincing my operator that blowing is better! (My operator is my stubborn father)


----------



## Neige

I am going to add my two cents worth. The PXPL and or the Function+ are both rear drive blowers with implements added so that when you drive forward the snow is blocked and once enough snow accumulates it will get caught in the auger and then feed into the fan. The whole time the blower is still working like a rear feed blower. In other words this blower works extremely well while driving back wards, but not well in the forward direction.
It also will leave a fair amount of snow in the street so you have no option but to back up again to remove that snow. The main use for this blower is blowing snow while backing up. The beauty of this blower is it leaves no piles when blowing back wards because you scoop up what ever snow would be left behind like a standard rear drive blower does. The other great thing is that you can handle large snow falls, this blower will work even if you have 4 feet of snow to blow.
The inverted blower is designed to blow snow while driving forwards, it does this extremely well. It can handle snows up to 24 inches very well, more then that it can but will be less efficient then your standard rear drive blower. (Though Organics from this site showed that the inverted handled 3 feet of snow very well.)
If you want to get as close to the garage door or car like the PXPL or function + you will need the back blade option for the inverted blower. This too will leave snow at the street making you backup an extra time to get rid of that snow. One of the greatest assets of using the inverted blower is that you drive forward, so the blower glides over the curb line at the street.
This very same curb line can be a killer on the standard rear drive blower. We have also found inverted blower is very handy to use as a box to pull snow forward and then to turn on the PTO when you have place to blow your snow. Our experience is there is more space near the street to blow your snow then up close to the front of the house. The biggest obstacle would be the front walkway so the inverted is better suited to blow the snow on the front lawn.
I hope this helps.


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## Neige

Piston;1642993 said:


> Like Mrtiggy, I'm also interested in the NH T4.75 tractor to run a blower.
> 
> Herm, I don't know if you remember or not, but I spoke with you on the phone last year regarding the 4.75 with a Shoule 492 blower setup, and I remember you saying it didn't quite have enough oomph to run that blower effectively.
> 
> Do you think that tractor would handle an 82" Normand much better? My plans are for a 12X12 hydro shuttle transmission with 3 rear remotes. Are the 700lbs of front suitcase weights that NH offers recommended?
> 
> On the 4.75, did you have any problems with fogging if the windows?
> Lastly, and this may or may not belong here, I found a decent deal on a Pronovost 80" rear-blower, not inverted. Although I realize it wouldn't be as efficient as an inverted, would it be a good way to get my feet wet sortaspeak? It would be cheaper than buying a brand new inverted, then if business did well, I could add an inverted next year?
> 
> It's funny, most of you guys have a problem convincing your CUSTOMERS that blowing is better (until they see it for themselves). I have a problem convincing my operator that blowing is better! (My operator is my stubborn father)


I looked up the New Holland 4.75 and it is rated 63HP on the PTO, if you go for the Normand N92-280 it is rated for 60 - 85 HP. I believe Herm mentioned that it handled the N92 very well. One thing to remember is that the Normand inverted blower will attach closer to the back of the tractor which is a very good thing. I think going for the extra weights in the front is a great idea. I am sure that right now your father may be stubborn, but I am convinced he will be much happier with the inverted then a standard rear blower.


----------



## Piston

If I remember correctly, the main "gripe" that Herm had with the 4.75 was that it seemed like he couldn't really find the right gear for it, either one was too fast, or one was too slow? That was with the Shoule 492, so I was thinking maybe a slightly narrower blower would work a bit better. 

I do like the idea of the Normand blower being closer to the tractor. The 3 point hitch is rated at 3600 lbs if I remember correctly. 

Just to clear it up, the issue I'm having with convincing my dad, is that a tractor/blower setup would be better and more efficient than his crew cab F350 and a really spread out route that he currently has. 

I'm not sure the best way to go about "convincing" him, short of just buying the setup and putting him in it for a storm. I know he'd absolutely LOVE it once he used it one time. He's just hesitant to change and has been "doing it the same way for close to 40 years"


----------



## mr_tiggy

Thanks alcs. I will give them a shout and see what they have to say. 
Thanks Neige for the advice. I think I would like to have the PXPL but when you mention the curbs I could see that being a problem.... makes me lean more towards the inverted. Plus the cost for the inverted is much more manageable right now.


----------



## Herm Witte

Piston;1642993 said:


> Like Mrtiggy, I'm also interested in the NH T4.75 tractor to run a blower.
> 
> Herm, I don't know if you remember or not, but I spoke with you on the phone last year regarding the 4.75 with a Shoule 492 blower setup, and I remember you saying it didn't quite have enough oomph to run that blower effectively.
> 
> Do you think that tractor would handle an 82" Normand much better? My plans are for a 12X12 hydro shuttle transmission with 3 rear remotes. Are the 700lbs of front suitcase weights that NH offers recommended?
> 
> On the 4.75, did you have any problems with fogging if the windows?
> 
> Lastly, and this may or may not belong here, I found a decent deal on a Pronovost 80" rear blower, not inverted. Although I realize it wouldn't be as efficient as an inverted, would it be a good way to get my feet wet sortaspeak? It would be cheaper than buying a brand new inverted, then if business did well, I could add an inverted next year?
> 
> It's funny, most of you guys have a problem convincing your CUSTOMERS that blowing is better (until they see it for themselves). I have a problem convincing my operator that blowing is better! (My operator is my stubborn father)


Ok, sorry I've been on a bit of a vacation or holiday as my Dutch and my Canadian friends would say.

To answer, the NH 4.75 will handle the Normand 92" inverted just fine with two drawbacks that I experienced. The first drawback was due to it's Hp being on the low end of recommended, I found myself shifting to a different range when snow was heavy. Since my places are not necessarily close to each other the amount of shifting in and out of different ranges was a bit problematic. The other drawback I encountered was an issue with the three point hitch drifting and jumping back up.. While it seems to be repaired I have not used it since. I don't recall fogging of the rear window to be a significant issue but am looking for a defogger to fit that window. I don't believe width of the blower is an issue, in either case they can only blow so much snow. Yes do add the front weights, it is helpful. Neige answered these as well and I concur with his comments regarding inverted vs. a push type or PXPL.


----------



## Neige

mr_tiggy;1643216 said:


> Thanks alcs. I will give them a shout and see what they have to say.
> Thanks Neige for the advice. I think I would like to have the PXPL but when you mention the curbs I could see that being a problem.... makes me lean more towards the inverted. Plus the cost for the inverted is much more manageable right now.


My pleasure, and I found out Bourassa equipment is a Normand dealer in Saskatchewan. http://www.ebourassa.com/contact


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## SnowClear

Subscribed.


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## IMAGE

SnowClear;1644255 said:


> Subscribed.


:waving:

If you're who I think you are, I figured you knew about this thread a long time ago. Glad you found it now, lots of good info here!


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## SnowClear

IMAGE;1644726 said:


> :waving:
> 
> If you're who I think you are, I figured you knew about this thread a long time ago. Glad you found it now, lots of good info here!


You got it. I've read through this thread start to finish many times over. Only now subscribing to keep up-to-date via email notifications.

Took a peek at the setup at the dealership the other day. Snow doesn't stand a chance this year!


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## SDLandscapes VT

I just want to publicly than Paul-Neige for stopping through VT on his way home on Thursday--even though I was unavailable due a previously scheduled engagement he took the time to drive around town with my father to discuss our plans for beginning a residential service this winter. We are very excited to be working with him and look forward to getting our normand blower(s) from him in the coming days/weeks.

Paul thank you for all of your help


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## Neige

SDLandscapes VT;1644895 said:


> I just want to publicly than Paul-Neige for stopping through VT on his way home on Thursday--even though I was unavailable due a previously scheduled engagement he took the time to drive around town with my father to discuss our plans for beginning a residential service this winter. We are very excited to be working with him and look forward to getting our normand blower(s) from him in the coming days/weeks.
> 
> Paul thank you for all of your help


It was great driving around with your dad. There were several areas that we drove through that are perfect for this kind of setup. I know you will be successful. Next time I head up I will give you a little more then a few hours notice.


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## IMAGE

SnowClear;1644763 said:


> You got it. I've read through this thread start to finish many times over. Only now subscribing to keep up-to-date via email notifications.
> 
> Took a peek at the setup at the dealership the other day. Snow doesn't stand a chance this year!


Good deal. Nice talking to you the other day! Can't wait to see some pics of your new Normand Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up


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## excav8ter

Is a John Deere 6120 a good choice for an 8' inverted blower? A good friend of mine is selling one, to buy a new one. (For tax reasons. He was the owner/operator and it lived inside all year.


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## IMAGE

That's about an 80hp tractor right? As long as it has a power reverser trans it will be a great tractor choice for the 92" inverted Normand. Knowing the history on the tractor is nice too, sounds like it could be a good deal for you. That's a nice size tractor for down the road if you want to put a plow on the front also.


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## excav8ter

IMAGE;1646600 said:


> That's about an 80hp tractor right? As long as it has a power reverser trans it will be a great tractor choice for the 92" inverted Normand. Knowing the history on the tractor is nice too, sounds like it could be a good deal for you. That's a nice size tractor for down the road if you want to put a plow on the front also.


Turns out the 6120 doesn't have a power shift transmission.


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## excav8ter

I am hoping to get a John Deere, but my partners dad is out looking at Fords, New Holland, Kioti, Kubota and TYM....

Does anyone have any info on the TYM brand? They look really nice and come with a Cat motor plus a 5 year warranty.


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## excav8ter

Ok....another tractor to consider....will a John Deere 5083e handle an 8' inverted blower?


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## SnowClear

*"...damage to driveways that large scrape-and-drag tractors..."*

Neige, Herm Witte, Image, and anyone else who'd care to respond.

I'd like to get your thoughts on this. See attached image. My research suggests and my conversations with each of you suggest that the tractor/blower combo is the best unit to avoid damage.

This just popped up on my radar. Pointed out to me by a customer actually. A small speed bump. Negative advertising is difficult to work with. Fact and fiction become entangled and the customer ends up mislead. Too bad too. They really do provide a great value proposition and their customer service is excellent.

I'm sticking to my guns and believe I'm right that tractors with blowers are better than any other residential snow removal equipment out there, but wanted to check in with the Pro's of the thread in case I missed something.

Anyways. What do you guys think?


----------



## IMAGE

SnowClear;1647353 said:


> Neige, Herm Witte, Image, and anyone else who'd care to respond.
> 
> I'd like to get your thoughts on this. See attached image. My research suggests and my conversations with each of you suggest that the tractor/blower combo is the best unit to avoid damage.
> 
> This just popped up on my radar. Pointed out to me by a customer actually. A small speed bump. Negative advertising is difficult to work with. Fact and fiction become entangled and the customer ends up mislead. Too bad too. They really do provide a great value proposition and their customer service is excellent.
> 
> I'm sticking to my guns and believe I'm right that tractors with blowers are better than any other residential snow removal equipment out there, but wanted to check in with the Pro's of the thread in case I missed something.
> 
> Anyways. What do you guys think?


WOW!!! That guy is the one misleading his customers! He has no idea what he is talking about! There is no way a tractor blower causes damage. The scrape would be the same as when his cutting edge is on the ground also. How does he think the snow gets blown? First it gets scraped into the blower!

I wonder if that ad is from a member on this site? I know there is a member here running a toolcat in MSP that has actually looked into the tractor blower idea, even asked a lot of questions here. The only reason they didn't go with one because of the specific types of drives they had.

Anyways, the best thing you can do is to keep promoting your business, don't let his ads drag you down. I'll email you a link you might be able to use in some advertising in the future.


----------



## mnlefty

IMAGE;1647389 said:


> WOW!!! That guy is the one misleading his customers! He has no idea what he is talking about! There is no way a tractor blower causes damage. The scrape would be the same as when his cutting edge is on the ground also. How does he think the snow gets blown? First it gets scraped into the blower!
> 
> I wonder if that ad is from a member on this site? I know there is a member here running a toolcat in MSP that has actually looked into the tractor blower idea, even asked a lot of questions here. The only reason they didn't go with one because of the specific types of drives they had.
> 
> Anyways, the best thing you can do is to keep promoting your business, don't let his ads drag you down. I'll email you a link you might be able to use in some advertising in the future.


Nope, not me but I do know where the screen cap image is from.

My questions to Snoclear would be is that an actual ad/mailer that they are sending out or just a screen cap from their website? Second question would be are they actively selling "against" tractors when speaking to customers, or did the customer just notice the language?


----------



## SnowClear

mnlefty;1647420 said:


> Nope, not me but I do know where the screen cap image is from.
> 
> My questions to Snoclear would be is that an actual ad/mailer that they are sending out or just a screen cap from their website? Second question would be are they actively selling "against" tractors when speaking to customers, or did the customer just notice the language?


MNLefty,

My name is Gabriel Asebedo - the owner of Snow Clearing Service, LLC and Perennial Wealth Group, Inc. If you are who I think you are then... We spoke briefly this past winter while you were out in your ToolCat. I subsequently sent you electronic correspondence, but did not receive a response. I assumed you were just busy serving clients and managing the merger. Are you still independent or affiliated with another company? I hope things are going well for you.

Q1: My image is a screen capture from the unnamed company website. As you already pointed out. The paper that was shown to me appeared to be printed directly from the site. I didn't even bother to ask how the customer came across the information. I'm perturbed and defensive, but understand the tactic. We all look for a competitive edge when positioning our company for the next sale.

Q2: Again, if you're who I think you are then... You tell me. You're likely in a position to know more about unnamed company's marketing efforts than I am. I understand if you're not willing to share or have no knowledge of the aforementioned. Feel free to PM, email, or call me. I'm always willing to talk with a fellow snow professional in an open and honest manner. To address the second act of Q2 regarding the customer "noticing the language." The customer certainly took note of the language and argued that it was "definitive proof" that my service will cause damage. Not sure why the customer was hung up on using that language, but I'm not surprised. This customer is just one of those types. I was able to bring the customer back to a holistic view on snow service in general, but only after I produced websites owned by Neige, Xtreme, and Image.

Caveat: If you're not who I believe you to be, I'm dreadfully sorry and wish you the absolute best in business success and if I can help you in anyway I will most certainly do so. I have an open door policy for any snow professional to contact me and discuss anything from finances to snow to conflict management. The best way to work with me is to contact SIMA and ask to be paired with me (I'm a SIMA Advisor).

Lastly, my previous post does not infer that the unnamed company provides an inferior service or lacks integrity. I don't know the company owners on a personal level, but hope to know them better in the future. I highly regard their service performance, technique, and satisfaction guarantee (I've got friends, a few of whom I've referred, that are customers of the unnamed company). I contacted them recently to participate in founding a MN SIMA Chapter. I believe their participation would be of great value and truly hope they decide to participate.

The initial meeting is mid-October. If you're a member of SIMA, I hope you would be willing to participate.:salute:


----------



## SnowClear

IMAGE;1647389 said:


> WOW!!! That guy is the one misleading his customers! He has no idea what he is talking about! There is no way a tractor blower causes damage. The scrape would be the same as when his cutting edge is on the ground also. How does he think the snow gets blown? First it gets scraped into the blower!
> 
> I wonder if that ad is from a member on this site? I know there is a member here running a toolcat in MSP that has actually looked into the tractor blower idea, even asked a lot of questions here. The only reason they didn't go with one because of the specific types of drives they had.
> 
> Anyways, the best thing you can do is to keep promoting your business, don't let his ads drag you down. I'll email you a link you might be able to use in some advertising in the future.


MNLefty just chimed in. Glad he did.

Steve, I agree. Thanks for your response. Your input is highly valued by all of the readers of this thread.


----------



## Neige

SnowClear;1647353 said:


> Neige, Herm Witte, Image, and anyone else who'd care to respond.
> 
> I'd like to get your thoughts on this. See attached image. My research suggests and my conversations with each of you suggest that the tractor/blower combo is the best unit to avoid damage.
> 
> This just popped up on my radar. Pointed out to me by a customer actually. A small speed bump. Negative advertising is difficult to work with. Fact and fiction become entangled and the customer ends up mislead. Too bad too. They really do provide a great value proposition and their customer service is excellent.
> 
> I'm sticking to my guns and believe I'm right that tractors with blowers are better than any other residential snow removal equipment out there, but wanted to check in with the Pro's of the thread in case I missed something.
> 
> Anyways. What do you guys think?


I am always amazed to the scale that a company is willing to mislead the public. '' VIRTUALLY ELIMINATING DAMAGE TO DRIVEWAYS THAT LARGE SCRAPE AND DRAG TRACTORS CAUSE. '' The first thing I noticed is there is no mention of a snow blower on the tractor. Clearly he does not want that comparison to be made with his Tool Cat. The whole ad is about the benifits of snow blowing. What is a large scrape and drag tractor? Is he refering to a backhoe or loader with a pusher box and or bucket? I find the word VIRTUALLY interesting as it states to me that there still is a possiabilty of causing damage with his equipment. I understand that the tractor with inverted blower is going to be a huge threat to those that have already invested in other means of clearing snow from driveways. Looking back at the above statement and the following statements the ad makes he does not want to bring attention to the ag tractor with inverted blower. The ad is clearly comparing scraping and pushing piles on properties to snow blowing, which the ag tractor in my opinion does better then anything else out there.


----------



## mnlefty

Neige;1647440 said:


> I am always amazed to the scale that a company is willing to mislead the public. '' VIRTUALLY ELIMINATING DAMAGE TO DRIVEWAYS THAT LARGE SCRAPE AND DRAG TRACTORS CAUSE. '' The first thing I noticed is there is no mention of a snow blower on the tractor. Clearly he does not want that comparison to be made with his Tool Cat. The whole ad is about the benifits of snow blowing. What is a large scrape and drag tractor? Is he refering to a backhoe or loader with a pusher box and or bucket? I find the word VIRTUALLY interesting as it states to me that there still is a possiabilty of causing damage with his equipment. I understand that the tractor with inverted blower is going to be a huge threat to those that have already invested in other means of clearing snow from driveways. Looking back at the above statement and the following statements the ad makes he does not want to bring attention to the ag tractor with inverted blower. The ad is clearly comparing scraping and pushing piles on properties to snow blowing, which the ag tractor in my opinion does better then anything else out there.


Guys, knowing the party in question, I honestly believe this is a situation escalated and blown out of proportion beginning with the customer... I really think it's a situation of improper/unfortunate wording due to nothing other than plagiarism. I recognized that wording from back when I first started sniffing around tractors, toolcats, and blowers. Check this out from a Tahoe area company, specifically down the page under benefits of Snow Blowers.

http://www.snopro.org/benefits.html

Tractors and loaders with pushers and buckets are common competition in the Tahoe area, and it would be my assumption that was the comparison by whoever originally wrote that. The local company here has never been one to "sell the negative" and I know the tractor/blower combo is more on their radar as a potential next step than having to run it down to sell against it.

Again, this is my speculation. I can't say any of it with certainty, but can say it with confidence.


----------



## Neige

Thanks MNLefty,
pretty much the conclusion I was coming to. Have a great weekend everyone.


----------



## SnowClear

mnlefty;1647478 said:


> Guys, knowing the party in question, I honestly believe this is a situation escalated and blown out of proportion beginning with the customer... I really think it's a situation of improper/unfortunate wording due to nothing other than plagiarism. I recognized that wording from back when I first started sniffing around tractors, toolcats, and blowers. Check this out from a Tahoe area company, specifically down the page under benefits of Snow Blowers.
> 
> http://www.snopro.org/benefits.html
> 
> Tractors and loaders with pushers and buckets are common competition in the Tahoe area, and it would be my assumption that was the comparison by whoever originally wrote that. The local company here has never been one to "sell the negative" and I know the tractor/blower combo is more on their radar as a potential next step than having to run it down to sell against it.
> 
> Again, this is my speculation. I can't say any of it with certainty, but can say it with confidence.


What an unfortunate chain of events instigated by me. I'm grateful that you (MNLefty) are willing to clarify and arbitrate on unnamed local company's behalf. I'm also glad to hear that unnamed local company might be considering tractors as I do believe this method of snow removal will work well and usher in a new era of professionalism to the Twin Cities area. I absolutely abhor individuals who run others down in an attempt to get ahead. I'm so very glad to hear it suggested that this is not the case.

I'll chalk this one up as coincidence of events only paired with my itchy trigger finger. Next time I encounter this issue I'll be able to assist the customer with the correct interpretation/information source.


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## SDLandscapes VT

*Minneapolis Members*

I have recommended Paul's setup with the tractors to two of my graduate school colleagues out there and they are very interested. I doubt you will see anything from them in 13-14 but for sure 14-15 at least one of them will have tractor and blower setups.

How are things in the TC's these days?


----------



## SnowClear

SDLandscapes VT;1647538 said:


> I have recommended Paul's setup with the tractors to two of my graduate school colleagues out there and they are very interested. I doubt you will see anything from them in 13-14 but for sure 14-15 at least one of them will have tractor and blower setups.
> 
> How are things in the TC's these days?


Paul is an absolute gem. Nothing but the best.

That sounds great! Are they members of SIMA? Tell them to contact me when they get a chance. [email protected] It would be nice to have a local focus group. Definitely put them in touch with IMAGE to get setup with Normands (If they're going inverted).

Getting geared up for what I hope is cold, snowy winter. Connect on LinkedIn when you have a chance.


----------



## excav8ter

Has anyone ever looked into "bumping" up the horsepower on a tractor? Specifically, a John Deere 5083e? It seems to be the exact same engine as a 5101e, only it's de-rated on power. I found a beautiful 5083e with 171 hours, and warranty until 2015. But I really think I need the power of a 5101e for the 8' Normand we have coming. We are going to be doing a lot of long road stretches with it, as well as driveways. Has anyone ever looked into it?


----------



## MogMan

Yo Paul !

Have you had the chance to look/demo the new Pronovost inverted blower, the P92 ?

Looks great.

Bigger rotor, higher and deeper frame. 200lbs heavier and the cutting blade is non-reversible.

Looks like it comes standard with the rear hydraulic blade.

Also from the pictures it looks like it would be shorter by 6ish inches

In the red corner, weighing-in at 1915lbs...

Do you have some Normand N92-280 Inv left btw ?


----------



## snopushin ford

hey guys, I love this thread, and I want to switch to blowing driveways. I am just having a hard time making the switch. Do any of you have any experience with Kubota M7040's???? I have found a M7040 for 13 grand cheaper than a Kubota M9540. similar hours. What would you do?? Thanks, Matt


----------



## blowerman

Wow, I shouldn't have signed off for so long. Great to see so much interest in the pxpl. For awhile they were passed over for the inverted blowers. 
To clarify, when running them on the NH TV tractors your are blowing forward not backward. The added ability of the back drag blade allowed us to get within a few inches of garage doors. 
This was by far one of the most efficient units out there. 
The down side: very expensive, not easy to find them as Pronovost mainly builds this model based on orders not spec. Works best on a TV tractor which is also expensive to buy and maintain. 
I sold mine last season after 4 years. It was mainly that I wanted to get rid of the NH bi-directional unit. The machine was a fuel pig, technical nightmare with a few gremlins, and cost to update was huge.
My M100X was only $45k plus the cost of the Normand blower from Image.
Sips fuel, comfortable and cheap to maintain.
In summer we pull a 15 ft. batwing and mow about 200 acres (that only takes us a few days). As of now, if it never snowed, the tractor could sit and wait until spring.


----------



## cet

blowerman;1648793 said:


> Wow, I shouldn't have signed off for so long. Great to see so much interest in the pxpl. For awhile they were passed over for the inverted blowers.
> To clarify, when running them on the NH TV tractors your are blowing forward not backward. The added ability of the back drag blade allowed us to get within a few inches of garage doors.
> This was by far one of the most efficient units out there.
> The down side: very expensive, not easy to find them as Pronovost mainly builds this model based on orders not spec. Works best on a TV tractor which is also expensive to buy and maintain.
> I sold mine last season after 4 years. It was mainly that I wanted to get rid of the NH bi-directional unit. The machine was a fuel pig, technical nightmare with a few gremlins, and cost to update was huge.
> My M100X was only $45k plus the cost of the Normand blower from Image.
> Sips fuel, comfortable and cheap to maintain.
> In summer we pull a 15 ft. batwing and mow about 200 acres (that only takes us a few days). As of now, if it never snowed, the tractor could sit and wait until spring.


Is that 45K for a brand new unit?


----------



## blowerman

It is a 2010. I bought it new in the fall of that year. If 60 hours is used, then so be it. But we accepted it as new. Had a front end loader on it, so for $5k less I had them take it off. Considering I only use it with a Normand blower of batwing mower, no real need for it.
Everyone is so worried about how to justify a tractor.... I always ask how guys justify the $50k plus cost of a F550 to sit parked in front of a house while they shovel holes for a plant. 
There are many good tractors in the $30-50k range that will work good for snow. The best part, if you quit a used tractor will probably be worth what you paid in 2 years.


----------



## Neige

excav8ter;1648760 said:


> Has anyone ever looked into "bumping" up the horsepower on a tractor? Specifically, a John Deere 5083e? It seems to be the exact same engine as a 5101e, only it's de-rated on power. I found a beautiful 5083e with 171 hours, and warranty until 2015. But I really think I need the power of a 5101e for the 8' Normand we have coming. We are going to be doing a lot of long road stretches with it, as well as driveways. Has anyone ever looked into it?


It can be done, just remember if you do you will void the warranty.



snopushin ford;1648787 said:


> hey guys, I love this thread, and I want to switch to blowing driveways. I am just having a hard time making the switch. Do any of you have any experience with Kubota M7040's???? I have found a M7040 for 13 grand cheaper than a Kubota M9540. similar hours. What would you do?? Thanks, Matt


I know plenty of guys running 92 inch inverted blowers on the Kubota M7040 without any problems.


----------



## Neige

MogMan;1648779 said:


> Yo Paul !
> 
> Have you had the chance to look/demo the new Pronovost inverted blower, the P92 ?
> 
> Yes I have.
> 
> Looks great.
> 
> It does look nice.
> 
> Bigger rotor, higher and deeper frame. 200lbs heavier and the cutting blade is non-reversible.
> 
> I have an issue with the 200 lbs more, Normand is starting to use hardox metal for many parts of the blower making it lighter. 1/4 inch hardox is the equivalent of 1 inch standard steel. More and more people are going for the smaller tractors with category 2 three point hitches. The less weight the better.
> 
> Looks like it comes standard with the rear hydraulic blade.
> 
> No it can order without the backblade.
> 
> Also from the pictures it looks like it would be shorter by 6ish inches
> 
> In the red corner, weighing-in at 1915lbs...
> 
> Once again you are correct it has become shorter, now its the same length as the Normand
> 
> Do you have some Normand N92-280 Inv left btw ?
> 
> If you look at your first picture you will notice that the gearbox is no longer behind the blower, that is how they shortened it by 6 inches. In the second picture it still has the gearbox in the back old style.
> In the third picture look where the PTO shaft connects to the gearbox. My issue with that is it becomes very problematic if you should get something caught in the fan. Access to the fan has become very difficult, so when you break a safety bolt and you need to clear away the snow around the fan it is not going to be pleasant. I find it interesting that they have gone back to the old style when all inverted blowers were built that way 30 years ago.


----------



## Neige

Oh yes I do, and there are 10 being shipped out next week.


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## cda817

Just want to thank Paul V. for taking the time to ride around my service area and sharing his wealth of knowledge of me when he was in Connecticut a few weeks ago. I can't wait to put my blower to work this winter!

Thats a lot of blowers! Has mine come in yet?


----------



## cet

blowerman;1648807 said:


> It is a 2010. I bought it new in the fall of that year. If 60 hours is used, then so be it. But we accepted it as new. Had a front end loader on it, so for $5k less I had them take it off. Considering I only use it with a Normand blower of batwing mower, no real need for it.
> Everyone is so worried about how to justify a tractor.... I always ask how guys justify the $50k plus cost of a F550 to sit parked in front of a house while they shovel holes for a plant.
> There are many good tractors in the $30-50k range that will work good for snow. The best part, if you quit a used tractor will probably be worth what you paid in 2 years.


I don't think you can find anything that cheap here. I found a 6430 Deere 1year old with 400 hours for $66k.


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## Grassman09

cet;1648834 said:


> I don't think you can find anything that cheap here. I found a 6430 Deere 1year old with 400 hours for $66k.


Better then one I found for $88k. But it was a premium 6430 with a Horst snowwing.


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## blowerman

The Deere 6000 serious are one of the more expensive albeit nice tractors out there. Have you checked tractorhouse.com? For the right price, buy a used unit from somewhere else and ship it back. 
They have 2 Kubota M100x with 1k plus hours in the $30's
Sure I'd like a 6430 premium but for the price, kubota is hard to beat.


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## Grassman09

I already have the poor mans 6430 version. Allot of the older kubotas I've seen have all faded cabs and paint and plastic. Also I have only 2 kubota dealers vs tons of deere dealers around me. I was thinking of a 5740 for doing driveways a few years ago. I was at a trade show and the reps from kubota were busy reading the news paper and chatting with each other. My closest Deere dealer parts guy is like that. Don't bother me attitude.


----------



## Neige

cda817;1648832 said:


> Just want to thank Paul V. for taking the time to ride around my service area and sharing his wealth of knowledge of me when he was in Connecticut a few weeks ago. I can't wait to put my blower to work this winter!
> 
> Thats a lot of blowers! Has mine come in yet?


Hey Chris, I enjoyed it also. It should be shipped out later this week. Thumbs Up


----------



## excav8ter

Man....finding a tractor is proving harder than I thought. It seems the John Deere 5 series is the right physical size to pair with the Normand 92-280 , but only the 5101e has the HP I want. The other brands we have looked at don't have a left hand reverser until you get above the 100hp threshold. So it looks like we are deciding between 2 - 2009's... a 5101e with 1887 hours and a loader.... and a 5093e with a 487 hours and a loader. My partner is leaning towards the 5093 because it's a few grand less expensive. I have wanted a JD since I started my quest to have a tractor/blower. But I am surprised that JD is the only one with 90-100 horsepower in a smaller frame. I think this size should work out well with the 8'Normand. The blower should be here soon....


----------



## MogMan

Have you looked into New Holland ?

The T6000 series have the left hand reverser/power shuttle.



excav8ter;1649026 said:


> Man....finding a tractor is proving harder than I thought. It seems the John Deere 5 series is the right physical size to pair with the Normand 92-280 , but only the 5101e has the HP I want. The other brands we have looked at don't have a left hand reverser until you get above the 100hp threshold. So it looks like we are deciding between 2 - 2009's... a 5101e with 1887 hours and a loader.... and a 5093e with a 487 hours and a loader. My partner is leaning towards the 5093 because it's a few grand less expensive. I have wanted a JD since I started my quest to have a tractor/blower. But I am surprised that JD is the only one with 90-100 horsepower in a smaller frame. I think this size should work out well with the 8'Normand. The blower should be here soon....


----------



## excav8ter

MogMan;1649031 said:


> Have you looked into New Holland ?
> 
> The T6000 series have the left hand reverser/power shuttle.


My partners dad has been looking for everything that's ISN'T green. But he hasn't come up with anything that has low hours and meets my standards for "clean" and low hours.


----------



## Liberty LLC

I have been reading this forum and am only on page 14 but have a question to Neige, blower man, herm, and mog man after you service your locations do you salt or deice in any manner? I noticed a thin layer generally left behind and wanted to see if you treated it or left it? I live in NJ and we don't get enough snow but my parents area in pa this would work well as their neighbor always complains about nowhere to put more snow halfway thru the year.
Also any of you try it on gravel driveways (I assume it would be very bad you would need to elevate like a plow and leave 2-3 inches behind) as well as dirt roads?
There are a lot of construction roads nearby just trees cut down nothing else done


Thanks in advance!


----------



## Mark13

Liberty LLC;1649150 said:


> I have been reading this forum and am only on page 14 but have a question to Neige, blower man, herm, and mog man after you service your locations do you salt or deice in any manner? I noticed a thin layer generally left behind and wanted to see if you treated it or left it? I live in NJ and we don't get enough snow but my parents area in pa this would work well as their neighbor always complains about nowhere to put more snow halfway thru the year.
> Also any of you try it on gravel driveways (I assume it would be very bad you would need to elevate like a plow and leave 2-3 inches behind) as well as dirt roads?
> There are a lot of construction roads nearby just trees cut down nothing else done
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I don't have any experience with doing driveways like some of these guys do, but I would imagine that the little film of snow left on the driveway disappears on it's own rather quickly as soon as the sun comes out. 
When the customer leaves for work in the morning the driveway may still have that thin layer of snow on it but when they return home that evening the driveway should be clean and dry if the sun came out for any length of time during the day.


----------



## Liberty LLC

Yea I meant to include does the sun melt it....long day.
What's the lowest accumalation you service withe tractor/blower combo? Do you have a trigger requirement for them like 2 inches with a plow ?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Paul

That is a shiny stack of blowers--are there a couple with our name on them??

Also--not sure if it is still available, but Harvest equipment in Highgate VT had a 6430 premium with 2500 ish hours clean as a whistle (worked on a citrus farm in Florida) for $49K


----------



## Neige

Liberty LLC;1649150 said:


> I have been reading this forum and am only on page 14 but have a question to Neige, blower man, herm, and mog man after you service your locations do you salt or deice in any manner? I noticed a thin layer generally left behind and wanted to see if you treated it or left it? I live in NJ and we don't get enough snow but my parents area in pa this would work well as their neighbor always complains about nowhere to put more snow halfway thru the year.
> Also any of you try it on gravel driveways (I assume it would be very bad you would need to elevate like a plow and leave 2-3 inches behind) as well as dirt roads?
> There are a lot of construction roads nearby just trees cut down nothing else done
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Hey Liberty,
my drives are left with a thin film of snow because we use poly cutting edges that do not scratch the driveway. Depending on the type of snow there are times we scrape right down to bare pavement. Our clients are used to this and we get no complaints. For a few years we offered salting on call, and over the years received only a few calls for the service. Our trigger is 2 inches, but it happens that we go out on 1 inch and the blower works fine. For gravel drives we usually will skip them the first few snow falls and allow snow to pack down on the gravel. If we do get a strom the first time out then we keep the blower raised a few inches above the ground. Or you turn off the blower and pull the snow all the way to the street thus packing down the snow on the drive and you turn on the blower at the road and empty it on the property. We state in contract our we are not responsible for cleaning up the gravel left on the property once the snow has melted away.



SDLandscapes VT;1649180 said:


> Paul
> 
> That is a shiny stack of blowers--are there a couple with our name on them??
> 
> Also--not sure if it is still available, but Harvest equipment in Highgate VT had a 6430 premium with 2500 ish hours clean as a whistle (worked on a citrus farm in Florida) for $49K


Thats a good price for a premium, and yes there are a couple of blowers just waiting to be picked up or shipped out for you.


----------



## MogMan

For us, we don't offer salt spreading anymore. Not enough profitable and also, this way, we are not liable for slips and falls, because they salt it themselves now. We do offer salt bins left on site, for an extra.

For gravel, like Paul said, we thread lightly until the ground is frozen solid. Worst case, the Pronovost blower can handle a mouthful or rocks with no problem. The sound makes me cringe every time but it goes through.



Liberty LLC;1649150 said:


> I have been reading this forum and am only on page 14 but have a question to Neige, blower man, herm, and mog man after you service your locations do you salt or deice in any manner? I noticed a thin layer generally left behind and wanted to see if you treated it or left it? I live in NJ and we don't get enough snow but my parents area in pa this would work well as their neighbor always complains about nowhere to put more snow halfway thru the year.
> Also any of you try it on gravel driveways (I assume it would be very bad you would need to elevate like a plow and leave 2-3 inches behind) as well as dirt roads?
> There are a lot of construction roads nearby just trees cut down nothing else done
> 
> Thanks in advance!


----------



## Herm Witte

Liberty LLC;1649150 said:


> I have been reading this forum and am only on page 14 but have a question to Neige, blower man, herm, and mog man after you service your locations do you salt or deice in any manner? I noticed a thin layer generally left behind and wanted to see if you treated it or left it? I live in NJ and we don't get enough snow but my parents area in pa this would work well as their neighbor always complains about nowhere to put more snow halfway thru the year.
> Also any of you try it on gravel driveways (I assume it would be very bad you would need to elevate like a plow and leave 2-3 inches behind) as well as dirt roads?
> There are a lot of construction roads nearby just trees cut down nothing else done
> 
> As a rule we don't salt residential driveways. Whether using a truck with a front and back (pull) plow or the inverted snowblower, a film is left behind. Not much of one but one that can build up a little hard pack due to West Michigan's lack of sunlight weeks on end. This will generally melt and or get scraped off later.
> 
> We do one gravel drive, no issues and we groomed the gravel back in the spring.


----------



## IMAGE

Hey Guys,

While answering some questions I got in an email I thought some of you guys might like to know this too, because it's amazing how often I get asked this question.

Here's a copy/Paste of my response to a question about how tractor/blowers are working in my business:

_They allow me to grow easier. I can feel safe adding more customers knowing that it only takes 1 employee to handle a large amount of driveways. They have cut my operating cost, because 1 tractor does the work of 2-3 trucks, so I am saving all the expense of extra employees and vehicles. Also using the flat rate seasonal pricing with a pre-pay requirement helps with budgeting growth expenses.

It makes it easier to afford new equipment as needed each fall, and it saves soooo much hassle vs trying to bill monthly. I won't ever go back to trucks that is for sure. When I started with tractors a couple years ago, the first year I rented some tractors, then the second year I bought 1 nice used tractor, and this year I traded that in on 2 new Deere's. And I'm looking at picking up another new Deere this year yet also. Growth like I'm enjoying just wasn't possible using trucks. Using tractors it's no problem at all._

It's really great how this tractor/blower/pre-pay service model has helped make growth easier for my business.

I am sure that some of the other guys on here that use this service model can attest to seeing very similar results. I know I can see it even in the customers that have bought Normands from me, coming back the next year for another because they are adding another tractor (or two) each year.


----------



## straightlinelan

Neige, 
I admired your operation. What is the minimum size tractor (engine hp & pto hp) that would be successful and what is a common size blower width? I am accustom to plow sizes, 8' and 8 1/2' so when I was looking at blowers, they all seemed to range from 6' to 7'6".


----------



## IMAGE

straightlinelan;1649783 said:


> What is the minimum size tractor (engine hp & pto hp) that would be successful and what is a common size blower width?
> 
> Both 82" and 92" blowers are very common. I'd suggest about 50-60 PTO HP with an 82", if you have over 60hp you could step up to the 92", but you will be on the low end for hp with a 92" if you're in the 60-70hp range. The 92" will run the best with 80-100hp, but some guys are doing fine with them on 60hp tractors also. Just the bigger tractors won't bog down as much as a 60hp tractor would with that size blower.
> 
> 
> I am accustom to plow sizes, 8' and 8 1/2' so when I was looking at blowers, they all seemed to range from 6' to 7'6".


I hope I could help. I know you asked Paul, but I'm pretty good with knowing what fits also. Thumbs Up


----------



## blowerman

For condos we salt after blowing, residential nobody asks for salt. 
After building up a larger residential route this past year, I'm almost debating adding another blower. If I had to continue using trucks, I think I'd quite. 
For that matter, as long as this thread continues, I'll stick with snow.


----------



## IMAGE

blowerman;1649926 said:


> For that matter, as long as this thread continues, I'll stick with snow.


Challenge accepted.


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## Liberty LLC

Hi guys 
In the process of purchasing.
I am making another website and adding to my existing one, door hangers (creating) them now, and new business cards. Any other suggestions to try and gain clients. I am going to go door to door to try and get customers. Passing out the material and talking about it looking for more ideas. I have no clients and hope to at least break even this year. Ran all my numbers and worse case scenario need 86 customers to cover costs with loan of 1400 hoping it isn't anywhere near that tho.

Also do you have them sign a contract? I assume yea


----------



## Neige

Liberty LLC;1651834 said:


> Hi guys
> In the process of purchasing.
> I am making another website and adding to my existing one, door hangers (creating) them now, and new business cards. Any other suggestions to try and gain clients. I am going to go door to door to try and get customers. Passing out the material and talking about it looking for more ideas. I have no clients and hope to at least break even this year. Ran all my numbers and worse case scenario need 86 customers to cover costs with loan of 1400 hoping it isn't anywhere near that tho.
> 
> Also do you have them sign a contract? I assume yea


Hey Liberty, I think its great you wanting to get into the resi market. The tractor blower combo looks to be a great deal. My only concern and please do not let me remove the wind from your sails, is counting on 86 customers to break even. Since you are starting from 0 clients that is a high target for a first year. 86 clients seems pretty high for a break even point. If you would like give me a call and I will be willing to discuss these points with you confidentially of course. Either way good luck to you and look forward to hearing how it goes.
Paul Vanderzon
514-608-4675


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## Liberty LLC

Paul 
that is my absolute worst case scenario using an operator the whole time needing 2k+ in repairs a year and having a 1400 a month payment. Getting 20 events. 

Our average is 12.8 for 5 yrs and 10.9 for 10 yrs. I went with crazy price for a worst case scenario. For 1400 a month I need 75 resis and for 1000 a month I need 59. The area his very populated shouldn't have trouble getting 59 at first might be more spread out tho. At least I will have a break even. That's covering the loan all year in those average storms.

hoping to rent the machine and cover most or all of the monthly payments means more money in my pocket.


----------



## Neige

Liberty LLC;1651883 said:


> Paul
> that is my absolute worst case scenario using an operator the whole time needing 2k+ in repairs a year and having a 1400 a month payment. Getting 20 events.
> 
> Our average is 12.8 for 5 yrs and 10.9 for 10 yrs. I went with crazy price for a worst case scenario. For 1400 a month I need 75 resis and for 1000 a month I need 59. The area his very populated shouldn't have trouble getting 59 at first might be more spread out tho. At least I will have a break even. That's covering the loan all year in those average storms.
> 
> hoping to rent the machine and cover most or all of the monthly payments means more money in my pocket.


Looks like you have done your homework, good for you. Now go out and sell 150 resi. Thumbs Up


----------



## SnowClear

I'm having a few guys do skills testing this Wednesday through Friday. 

What are the most important things you guys look for in a residential tractor/snowblower operator?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Gabriel--what training materials/skills tests are you doing. I have my first two operators (default) because they are my summer guys--I would like to do some training


----------



## IMAGE

I first have them drive around the basically empty streets by my shop to get the feel of things. Then I have them work up and down the whole length of the shop building backing up to it like they would garage doors. In a couple hours they will of backed up to the building a couple hundred times. 

Then a few days later repeat, and this time each time they back up to the building have them lower the blower and pull out like they are blowing, and have them sometimes need to blow right, sometimes left, so they get used to the chute controls. 

After that I just have them drive the route in the tractor a couple times each week until they start complaining that they know the route and don't need to drive it anymore. By then they have 10-20 hours in the tractor and I feel safe letting them work.


----------



## SnowClear

SDLandscapes VT;1652740 said:


> Gabriel--what training materials/skills tests are you doing. I have my first two operators (default) because they are my summer guys--I would like to do some training


I created a one page checklist of things I'd like to see in an operator. It contains three topic areas I thought were important: 1. Equipment awareness/Problem Solving 2. Driving Skills 3. Dexterity.

1. I intend to assess if the operator can perform a walk-around using the pre and post operation equipment inspection sheet and spot the problem I've purposely created. Simple things like the PTO shaft is not connected, tire pressure is low, dipstick is not fully inserted... and so forth. For example, if the main cutting edge is missing a bolt, I want the operator to be able to spot it out, report it, and determine if the cutting edge is going to cause damage to the equipment or property. Much of this test is conversational and I hope to learn more about my operators through discussion. I'll gain confidence in my operators, hopefully.
2. Driving skills are how well they can maneuver the tractor going forward and backward and/or around obstacles. If they are aware of all four corners of the machine. Stuff like that. Any incident where hypothetical damage or actual damage would occur results in a "no job offer." Pretty strict, but I want this to express my concern for personal, equipment, and property safety.
3. Dexterity is mainly in-cab operation. Even though the tractors I have are pretty simple to operate, I want the operator to show signs of dexterous proficiency when operating the tractor and demonstrate continuous improvement over the course of the training exercise. After watching a number of P. Vanderzon's YouTube videos I concluded that in cab dexterity is very important to efficiency. For example, reaching for the correct lever to move the chute, without looking, while simultaneously shifting the power reverser and steering the tractor all determine if a driveway takes more or less time.


----------



## SnowClear

IMAGE;1652780 said:


> I first have them drive around the basically empty streets by my shop to get the feel of things. Then I have them work up and down the whole length of the shop building backing up to it like they would garage doors. In a couple hours they will of backed up to the building a couple hundred times.
> 
> Then a few days later repeat, and this time each time they back up to the building have them lower the blower and pull out like they are blowing, and have them sometimes need to blow right, sometimes left, so they get used to the chute controls.
> 
> After that I just have them drive the route in the tractor a couple times each week until they start complaining that they know the route and don't need to drive it anymore. By then they have 10-20 hours in the tractor and I feel safe letting them work.


I was wondering how many hours to put them through. My guess was around 10 though 20-25 hours of training would give me a better idea of performance. Especially after operator confidence sets in which is when an operator begins to let their guard down (make mistakes). I like the idea of conducting the routes until the operators provide feedback.

I'll admit I'm nervous about the first damage report.


----------



## snowman55

Just to bring to light for you guys it is illegal to drive any machinery on minnesota roads. Yes that includes a farm tractor. I went through the ringer with dot last year.if anything happens you are on the hook. If you are not a governmental agency you can not run anything but a licensed vehicle on the roads in mn sorry to say but you will be breaking mn laws as you drive that tractor from house to house


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## MogMan

I guess you just have to get the tractor licensed/plated and insured.

That and an orange triangle at the back and you're good to go.

That's what we do around here.



snowman55;1652863 said:


> Just to bring to light for you guys it is illegal to drive any machinery on minnesota roads. Yes that includes a farm tractor. I went through the ringer with dot last year.if anything happens you are on the hook. If you are not a governmental agency you can not run anything but a licensed vehicle on the roads in mn sorry to say but you will be breaking mn laws as you drive that tractor from house to house


----------



## snowman55

No go it was actually my unimog that i had the run in with took it all the way to top of dot then to court. You can only run street legal licensed registered vehicles in mn. I was told " only illegal when something happens" they tend to turn a blind eye but fact is you are breaking the law if you drive a tractor on mn roads unless you are farming serious liability and your insurance won,t cover you. Call the mn dot if you don,t believe me. Sh!tty law but law none the less sorry for you guys that shelled out for tractors you have created a huge liability for yourselves. Reason i abandoned the model


----------



## SnowClear

snowman55;1652873 said:


> No go it was actually my unimog that i had the run in with took it all the way to top of dot then to court. You can only run street legal licensed registered vehicles in mn. I was told " only illegal when something happens" they tend to turn a blind eye but fact is you are breaking the law if you drive a tractor on mn roads unless you are farming serious liability and your insurance won,t cover you. Call the mn dot if you don,t believe me. Sh!tty law but law none the less sorry for you guys that shelled out for tractors you have created a huge liability for yourselves. Reason i abandoned the model


That one had me sweating bullets. DOT was quite adamant that Ag Tractors are not permitted on roadways. That is when I figured maybe nuance (Word Choice) might be the source of my issues with DOT. Decided to hire Patrick McGuiness at Zlimen & McGuiness here in MN and got it figured out for a reasonable fee. No problems with insurance or registration. You can register tractors to road here in Minnesota.


----------



## SnowClear

snowman55;1652873 said:


> No go it was actually my unimog that i had the run in with took it all the way to top of dot then to court. You can only run street legal licensed registered vehicles in mn. I was told " only illegal when something happens" they tend to turn a blind eye but fact is you are breaking the law if you drive a tractor on mn roads unless you are farming serious liability and your insurance won,t cover you. Call the mn dot if you don,t believe me. Sh!tty law but law none the less sorry for you guys that shelled out for tractors you have created a huge liability for yourselves. Reason i abandoned the model


Not sure about UniMogs though. You'll have to call Patrick for that particular piece of equipment.


----------



## snowman55

I would like to know how. I too hired an attorney. Had a small accident with "tractor" had slow moving triangle and beacon on a side road dot and prosecuter wanted to hang me, impounded tractor during storm. Lawyer plead it down insurAnce refused to cover. Luckily it was just damage to an auto paid it out of pocket. I have been it touch with state rep to change law. Said she would look into it. But they have been busy with gay marriage and football stadiums. My understanding is no exceptions unless you are or are contracted by a government agency. Includes skids tractors loaders sidewalk machines. Anything that is not a registored insured automobile.

Whats your loophole? Did my lawyer suck? Problem with laws is they are interperated really don,t know the answer until you are standing in front of the judge


----------



## IMAGE

Liberty LLC;1651834 said:


> Hi guys
> In the process of purchasing.
> I am making another website and adding to my existing one, door hangers (creating) them now, and new business cards. Any other suggestions to try and gain clients. I am going to go door to door to try and get customers. Passing out the material and talking about it looking for more ideas. I have no clients and hope to at least break even this year. Ran all my numbers and worse case scenario need 86 customers to cover costs with loan of 1400 hoping it isn't anywhere near that tho.
> 
> Also do you have them sign a contract? I assume yea


I've had great results with AdeaPrinting for Doorhangers. I actually get the "stick-it" version, and put them right on garage doors. Quicker to put out, and they get the homeowners attention better than a doorhanger on the front door that they might not notice for a few days. Most people here park in the garage an seldom use the front door, so actual doorhangers can go unnoticed.

86-150 customers is a lofty goal. If you advertise hard it is doable. But don't put all your eggs in one basket, and have a backup plan incase you don't reach your # goal.

I do have everyone sign a contract. It's really the only way I feel safe running a business. It spells out what we will do, and what we are and are not responsible for. Takes all the guess work out of it, and they can't come back later with complaints, because it's clearly spelled out beforehand. Example, a customer might call and say "there is snow in my driveway, why aren't you here?" And I'll say "Yes Sir, we had 1.1" of new snow last night, it didn't hit the 2" trigger depth, which is explained on the first line of the contract."

Or the best is when someone calls and says I forgot their sidewalks. It clearly says on our website that we don't do sidewalks, and it says it in bold on the contract. But every year a few new people call about it. I can refer them to the bold section of the contract they signed, and it's a simple solution.


----------



## IMAGE

SnowClear;1652795 said:


> I was wondering how many hours to put them through. My guess was around 10 though 20-25 hours of training would give me a better idea of performance. Especially after operator confidence sets in which is when an operator begins to let their guard down (make mistakes). I like the idea of conducting the routes until the operators provide feedback.
> 
> I'll admit I'm nervous about the first damage report.


I am constantly looking for good operators as I expand also. This year besides my normal ways I also have an employment placing agency looking for good operators for me. I told them I want guys that are seasoned experienced operators, such as dozers, backhoes, blades, etc.. guys that will know equipment and where the corners are at all times. We'll see if they can deliver. They are charging $250 per guy that they send to me, that I hire. Not bad considering they have advertising expense into that.

The last couple years I got away with paying $16-20/hr for operators. However I've decided to bump tractor guys to $20-25 this year. Honestly looking at what a tractor bills out that's still cheap overall.


----------



## SnowClear

snowman55;1652896 said:


> I would like to know how. I too hired an attorney. Had a small accident with "tractor" had slow moving triangle and beacon on a side road dot and prosecuter wanted to hang me, impounded tractor during storm. Lawyer plead it down insurAnce refused to cover. Luckily it was just damage to an auto paid it out of pocket. I have been it touch with state rep to change law. Said she would look into it. But they have been busy with gay marriage and football stadiums. My understanding is no exceptions unless you are or are contracted by a government agency. Includes skids tractors loaders sidewalk machines. Anything that is not a registored insured automobile.
> 
> Whats your loophole? Did my lawyer suck? Problem with laws is they are interperated really don,t know the answer until you are standing in front of the judge


No loophole. No opinion about your attorney's level of competence. Seems like he/she did well under the circumstances, especially if your tractor was not registered to road.

In short, you have more questions than I have answers. Since Patrick already researched tractors on MN roadways for me, I'm sure you'll pay less than I did if you decide to contact him.

I'd give you the answer I received, however I think it best you seek the answer from an attorney on legal matters (in this case Patrick is your guy) and not me. It really did come down to nuance. The state of MN ok'd what I'm doing so long as I do x,y, and z, though any deviation in any form may change the result (to your "interpretation" comment).

In order for a state rep. to pay attention to a voter concern, the concern needs to benefit the masses, economy, tax base, etc. A number of MN SIMA members are forming a focus group to explore the feasibility of a MN SIMA chapter. Now, if a group of well-organized professionals take a concern to MN legislature, a concern like yours for example, it stands a greater chance of demanding an audience even if there are other pressing issues at hand. Keep in touch. It sounds like a MN SIMA chapter would benefit from your snow service experience.


----------



## SnowClear

IMAGE;1652904 said:


> I am constantly looking for good operators as I expand also. This year besides my normal ways I also have an employment placing agency looking for good operators for me. I told them I want guys that are seasoned experienced operators, such as dozers, backhoes, blades, etc.. guys that will know equipment and where the corners are at all times. We'll see if they can deliver. They are charging $250 per guy that they send to me, that I hire. Not bad considering they have advertising expense into that.
> 
> The last couple years I got away with paying $16-20/hr for operators. However I've decided to bump tractor guys to $20-25 this year. Honestly looking at what a tractor bills out that's still cheap overall.


A staffing agency is a good idea. I'll look into it. The fee sounds more than reasonable. The hourly wage your paying is very comparable to what I'm offering.


----------



## snowman55

sir are a smart cookie. I have been doing this for 25 years and I realize I get so whipped up over the regulations in business that I have not done my due diligence to find out answers in favor of my business. I will be contacting Patrick. Good luck to you this season. thank you for opening my eyes.


----------



## MogMan

It all depends on how the unimog was imported. Some import it as a tractor to save a couple bucks. I imported mine as a truck. It has the same rights as a normal road-going vehicule.



SnowClear;1652882 said:


> Not sure about UniMogs though. You'll have to call Patrick for that particular piece of equipment.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Well the website has had a soft launch, the facebook page is live, door hangers in bound, blowers on order, tractors getting delivered--We are going live

Let it snow--not until 15 November


----------



## mr_tiggy

So what would a person want to watch for when buy a used PXPL other than the obvious bent or repaired parts. I know they are built very well, but what are the weak points of the machines after 3-5 seasons of use?


----------



## mr_tiggy

First tractor purchase and she is sung as a bug.
She= 2006 M105S 365hrs dual speed
Now just have to find a blower


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

mr_tiggy;1656468 said:


> First tractor purchase and she is sung as a bug.
> She= 2006 M105S 365hrs dual speed
> Now just have to find a blower


I meant to take a picture last week but we put our 5410 in our 15' switch and go rolloff and it was snug as we'll. we lopped the loader over the back door


----------



## MetzEnterprizez

Hey Tiggy!!!! Great squeeze!!! How heavy is that tractor? Curious because if I happen to switch for next year, Im going to need to buy a trailer as well!!!


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## mr_tiggy

From what tractordata says it should be around 8,642 lbs plus the trailer is approximately 4400lbs. I had to flip the rear tires around to make it fit. Trailer is 14' x 81.5". Was a little heavy for the 02 duramax. I did a 270mile trip with it loaded and I took it pretty easy I thought. Now the old girl has a little rattle and a little blue out the tail pipe, kind of a bummer. Oh well, hopefully it's nothing to serious.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Dark and fuzzy--tractor in the can


----------



## Mark13

mr_tiggy;1656508 said:


> Now the old girl has a little rattle and a little blue out the tail pipe, kind of a bummer. Oh well, hopefully it's nothing to serious.


On the bright side it's most likely only injectors giving you trouble.

Downside is it's not exactly cheap but shouldn't be to tough, just time consuming to replace them.


----------



## SnowClear

Nice tractor! Get a Normand. Impressive quality and great customer service. The guys on here that sell 'em know about residential snow operations too.



mr_tiggy;1656468 said:


> First tractor purchase and she is sung as a bug.
> She= 2006 M105S 365hrs dual speed
> Now just have to find a blower


----------



## mr_tiggy

Anyone have a line on a used shoule s-492? I can't seem to find anything online. I am going to go with a Normand unless I can find a used shoule. It just seems like the auger would move the snow a little quicker in the shoule?


----------



## mr_tiggy

This is a photo of the blower i am looking at buying. Are the cutting edges ok? half worn? or close to being worn out. I do not know what a fresh set looks like and if i am going to need to replace them soon, the cost of replacement will most likely sway me to buy new instead.


----------



## IMAGE

In the best places it's about 1/2. It's hard to tell from the picture but is it a lot thinner just to the right of center and all the way over to the right side? Could just be the pallet in the way? But I think that right side is about gone, time to replace.

A new TIVAR poly edge is 1.5" thick.


----------



## mr_tiggy

ok, thanks for the help on that. I thought that they must be good amount larger than what is currently on there.


----------



## MogMan

How much are they selling it for ?


mr_tiggy;1657690 said:


> This is a photo of the blower i am looking at buying. Are the cutting edges ok? half worn? or close to being worn out. I do not know what a fresh set looks like and if i am going to need to replace them soon, the cost of replacement will most likely sway me to buy new instead.


----------



## mr_tiggy

7900 Canadian. plus I will be paying shipping which will be like 1300 probably and even though it is used I will be paying both taxes in Quebec. I new normand with tivar and rear blade is 11200 plus taxes in sask. I am going to call the shoule dealer and see what they have for pricing...he was on holidays all of last week.


----------



## excav8ter

So help me out some tire advice.... our tractor has, I believe, regular farm tires. R1's I believe.... the fronts are about 50% but the rears are brand new. Currently our route is not very hilly, but we have been called by an association to possibly service them this year. It's quite hilly and, judging by the drop offs along the road, it's a scary ***** in the winter. Very few places for snow....perfect for a tractor/blower. It's in the dunes on lake Michigan. Are the R1 tires going to suck in the hills?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Anyone here still looking for tractor(s) I have a good source for some really nice used stuff, just bought two myself


----------



## IsraelsPS

You'll be more then fine with newer R-1, our 5105M unit has R-1 tires. We loaded them with Meekoffs tire stuff (beat juice or T190) and they hold slopes really well.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

*The gang is all here*


----------



## excav8ter

Well, we finally had time to hook up the new Normand. Shortened the PTO shaft, routed the hoses and greased it all up.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

nice setup Excav8ter--Paul tells me the blowers will get here either tomorrow or Monday. Either way we are super excited


----------



## excav8ter

SDLandscapes VT;1658831 said:


> nice setup Excav8ter--Paul tells me the blowers will get here either tomorrow or Monday. Either way we are super excited


Sweet! I am pretty excited about trying out....but I am no where near ready for snow. Our route is in place, but we have a lot of excavation work to do before it snows.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

I m still building the routes--and I have a few things left to go.....we have hired a lady part time to do nothing but pass out door hangers and answer the "snow phone" good response and we have added just about 1 per day since we began the blitz. I know that once the signage goes up, cold weather sets in in earnest, and flurries begin to fall more will add. May have added a small condo group today as well.


----------



## excav8ter

Nice! We aren't pushing too hard this year. We have a solid route for the tractor 6-7 hours. The F350 with the 14' Ebling/ Boss has about 6.5 hours, we also have a 3rd truck that has about 3-4 hours. We have 2 Of the Normand blowers, one brand new one and a good used one as a spare.


----------



## IMAGE

excav8ter;1658826 said:


> Well, we finally had time to hook up the new Normand. Shortened the PTO shaft, routed the hoses and greased it all up.


Hey Ben,

Looks Great! Here's a video here showing how I route the hoses, I like to attach the ones for the rotation motor to the top of the blower like you see in the video.

Also, it looks like you need to shorten your top link a little bit. It could just be because it's sitting on some plywood. But if you look at the bottom edge of the blower, you want that level when it's sitting on the ground. You can even have it tipped slightly forward. But you don't want it tipped backwards. They scrape the best if level or just slightly forward.


----------



## excav8ter

IMAGE;1658942 said:


> Hey Ben,
> 
> Looks Great! Here's a video here showing how I route the hoses, I like to attach the ones for the rotation motor to the top of the blower like you see in the video.
> 
> Also, it looks like you need to shorten your top link a little bit. It could just be because it's sitting on some plywood. But if you look at the bottom edge of the blower, you want that level when it's sitting on the ground. You can even have it tipped slightly forward. But you don't want it tipped backwards. They scrape the best if level or just slightly forward.


Thanks Steve. We will shorten the top link, now that we have most everything set up. Sitting on the plywood is effecting it some. Is there supposed to be "shoes" that the blower rides on?

We have some hayrides scheduled for Saturday, after that the blower will go back on, most likely for the rest of the year.

What's you feeling on the tires? Israels PS replied that he is running R1's on his Deere, and they do fine.....I looked yesterday and we actually have R2's on the rear and R1's on the front, but they are a radial tire.

Ben


----------



## excav8ter

How do you guys feel about running the Tivar versus steel cutting edge? I am only doing a mainly mix of drives and private roads. I would like the Tivar to minimize any "scratching" of the driveways, but I don't want to be replacing cutting edges alot either. I'll be putting about 8-10 miles per event on the blower, just blowing the roads. Will the Tivar last? Or should I stay will steel?


----------



## PTSolutions

Also remember that these blowers dont have any type of trip mechanism. I was all for steel edge until Paul reminded me of this and am glad to have gone with a urethane edge. I have caught a few spots on driveways that would have done some damage to something had it been a steel edge. The urethane will either flex over, bounce or chunk off and save your blower.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

what size snow stakes does everyone get for this?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

*Skeptical?*

Skeptical? http://essexvtdrivewaysnowblowing.com/2013/11/04/the-skeptics-guide-to-believing/


----------



## snoworks1

SDLandscapes VT;1660401 said:


> Skeptical? http://essexvtdrivewaysnowblowing.com/2013/11/04/the-skeptics-guide-to-believing/


SDlandscapes,

I like the website very informative. Do you use any plows as back-up? Some driveways in my area pose problems in relation to the size of my new machine.


----------



## Herm Witte

snoworks1;1664181 said:


> SDlandscapes,
> 
> I like the website very informative. Do you use any plows as back-up? Some driveways in my area pose problems in relation to the size of my new machine.


I don't what size your new machine is but on our residential routes, if a truck can plow it our tractors with the inverted blowers can clear it. We do use our pick ups with plows as back ups.


----------



## snoworks1

Herm Witte;1664646 said:


> I don't what size your new machine is but on our residential routes, if a truck can plow it our tractors with the inverted blowers can clear it. We do use our pick ups with plows as back ups.


Herm Witte,

I have a Kubota M110 and this will be my first year using it with a blower. The tractor is much taller than a pick-up truck, I will post pictures after I get the blower put together.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

so we are in somewhat uncharted waters--we haven't provided any services with a truck except hauling with our roll off. We had no way to backup one tractor and on the advice of our marketing people we purchased two complete setups--we don't own any plows. We also offered a concierge service using walkbehind blowers, but it isn't scaleable and the price point makes it unattractive. We like the salaried operators, the low seasonal price, and the fixed pricing structure.

We did staking of accounts today and practiced with the tractors.


----------



## Herm Witte

snoworks1;1664650 said:


> Herm Witte,
> 
> I have a Kubota M110 and this will be my first year using it with a blower. The tractor is much taller than a pick-up truck, I will post pictures after I get the blower put together.


You may have to trim a tree or two.  watch out for BB hoops as well. A drive through to identify those issues is always a good idea.


----------



## erkoehler

How many houses on avg. Are you guys trying to put on a route?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

I am trying to load both routes to 40K gross how many ever houses that ends up being.....obviously looking for density 

We have pretty big pricing disparity because we don't have what I would call a "standard" driveway


----------



## snoworks1

erkoehler;1664752 said:


> How many houses on avg. Are you guys trying to put on a route?


Since this will be our first year using the blower, I am doubling up with a tractor and truck on a route, just in case. The route will have about 70 houses. I just want my operator to get used to it this year. Next year we will use our performance data to determine route sizes. Hopefully we can attain 100-120 houses in a route in 4 hours time, that would make me happy. Anything over that would be gravy.


----------



## Herm Witte

erkoehler;1664752 said:


> How many houses on avg. Are you guys trying to put on a route?


The number of houses is less important than the amount of time it takes to service the route. Our goal to service the route is 5 1/2 hours. As said numerous times in this thread, route density is important.


----------



## excav8ter

We are kind of doing our route different than most tractor/blower guys. We have one HOA with a lot of roads to blow. Drifting is the biggest reason why I started looking at blowers. I think our current home/condo count is 45. On top of that we will be blowing a pretty good size parking lot for the golf course and restaurant, as well as the staff parking and a large turnaround and customer drop off area. Then, I hopefully will head to another small HOA about 15 minutes away and do some more private roads and some higher end residential properties. I believe we have 4 new places for the tractor blower lined up for next year already.....it's along way off, but I have verbal commitments already. Going to need to tractors next year.


----------



## snoworks1

Here are some photographs of my machine with the Normand hooked up. Still waiting for the mechanic to come and set-up the hoses.


----------



## excav8ter

snoworks1;1665415 said:


> Here are some photographs of my machine with the Normand hooked up. Still waiting for the mechanic to come and set-up the hoses.


Looking good snoworks!


----------



## MogMan

They always look great when new...

Great setup !



snoworks1;1665415 said:


> Here are some photographs of my machine with the Normand hooked up. Still waiting for the mechanic to come and set-up the hoses.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

mine didnt have those nifty side shoes.....is that an add on?


----------



## SnowClear

snoworks1;1665415 said:


> Here are some photographs of my machine with the Normand hooked up. Still waiting for the mechanic to come and set-up the hoses.


Nice Tractor/Blower combo! Additionally, nice boat and RV! Geesh, you've got all the seasons covered now!


----------



## snoworks1

The shoes came with the blower.


----------



## Neige

SDLandscapes VT;1665507 said:


> mine didnt have those nifty side shoes.....is that an add on?


Hey Aaron yes they are an option. I am pretty sure he is running all poly with his blower making them more of a necessity.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Paul

Good to know--PTO shaft measurements were money on and we got everything hooked up on Tuesday

To any and all we have great routing on the rotation motor hoses, but the chute elevation hoses are a bit of a birds nest due to their separation and movement--thoughts?


----------



## snoworks1

SDLandscapes VT;1665886 said:


> Paul
> 
> Good to know--PTO shaft measurements were money on and we got everything hooked up on Tuesday
> 
> To any and all we have great routing on the rotation motor hoses, but the chute elevation hoses are a bit of a birds nest due to their separation and movement--thoughts?


Well share some photographs of your routing for the rotation motor hoses!


----------



## 1-855-200-PLOW

snoworks1;1665633 said:


> The shoes came with the blower.


SNOWORKS1,

Nice Machine!
What type of service do you provide?

Do you use other equipment as well?

What are you using the tractor/blower for? residential,parking lots?


----------



## snoworks1

1-855-200-PLOW;1665945 said:


> SNOWORKS1,
> 
> Nice Machine!
> What type of service do you provide? I just got back into commercial after close to a 10 years. I have been doing residential work for the past 20 years.
> 
> Do you use other equipment as well? Yes I have 2 Jeeps, 1 Silverado and a Suburban as a back-up.
> 
> What are you using the tractor/blower for? residential,parking lots?


 Tractor was purchased to service residential driveways.


----------



## #1 plowtech

snoworks1;1665955 said:


> Tractor was purchased to service residential driveways.


Is that Hawthorne Woods ILLINOIS i take it?
( judging by the sticker on the boat)

How well do you think the blower will work for a 2-3 inch snowfall on a driveway? Or would you keep it parked for larger snowfall.

I"m guessing that is a 20-30 thousand dollar investment?

How do you justify the expense when doing driveways?

I like how the blower is set up to back up, drop, and pull forward.

Do you think you will have a clearance issue trees,over hangs etc. by doing
residence?

Thank you for the input,
Sincerely, Jon


----------



## snoworks1

*ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff*



#1 plowtech;1666406 said:


> Is that Hawthorne Woods ILLINOIS i take it?
> ( judging by the sticker on the boat) It is stored in Hawthorn Woods, but I will be using it in a different city.
> 
> How well do you think the blower will work for a 2-3 inch snowfall on a driveway? Or would you keep it parked for larger snowfall. I will be using this machine when my contract trigger depth is hit (1 1/2").
> 
> I"m guessing that is a 20-30 thousand dollar investment? Blower was roughly $12k, machine $60k.
> 
> How do you justify the expense when doing driveways? Once you do the math, IMO it's a no brainer.
> 
> I like how the blower is set up to back up, drop, and pull forward.
> 
> Do you think you will have a clearance issue trees,over hangs etc. by doing
> residence? On some driveways I most definitely will!
> 
> Thank you for the input,
> Sincerely, Jon


Keep in mind I am looking to triple my residential business, so I chose to go the AG/blower route.


----------



## twinbrothers

Have you talked to lake county dot about driving on the road. I have had problems driving in some towns with the loader.


----------



## snoworks1

twinbrothers;1666628 said:


> Have you talked to lake county dot about driving on the road. I have had problems driving in some towns with the loader.


I talked with the Chief of police in the town I will be working in and after two days of him searching for laws that restrict AG's on the road, he gave me his cell # and said to call him if one of his men give me trouble!


----------



## #1 plowtech

Post up pics in action...of course when it snows


----------



## excav8ter

Well, we went out for our first run with the tractor/blower this morning. Only 2" at my big HOA, a couple other places had 4-6". Snow was very heavy and wet on the bottom. It's going to take some time to figure out which gear to be in, depending on if I'm doing roads or drives. This thing is AMAZING! You couldn't knock the grin off my face with a bat! I plugged the shute 5 times..... Oops. All of them were totally my mistake. I cannot believe how far it will throw snow. Hopefully my partner got some pictures.


----------



## StuveCorp

excav8ter;1669560 said:


> Well, we went out for our first run with the tractor/blower this morning. Only 2" at my big HOA, a couple other places had 4-6". Snow was very heavy and wet on the bottom. It's going to take some time to figure out which gear to be in, depending on if I'm doing roads or drives. This thing is AMAZING! You couldn't knock the grin off my face with a bat! I plugged the shute 5 times..... Oops. All of them were totally my mistake. I cannot believe how far it will throw snow. Hopefully my partner got some pictures.


Thanks for sharing and please keep updating us on how it's going and show some pretty pictures. Thumbs Up


----------



## OrganicsL&L

excav8ter;1669560 said:


> Well, we went out for our first run with the tractor/blower this morning. Only 2" at my big HOA, a couple other places had 4-6". Snow was very heavy and wet on the bottom. It's going to take some time to figure out which gear to be in, depending on if I'm doing roads or drives. This thing is AMAZING! You couldn't knock the grin off my face with a bat! I plugged the shute 5 times..... Oops. All of them were totally my mistake. I cannot believe how far it will throw snow. Hopefully my partner got some pictures.


Congrats and good for you! Now you need pics and videos!


----------



## excav8ter

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_C4qoezkmSEdWdINUt5Sk10U3c/edit?usp=sharing

Hope this works.... Just playing around, blowing away a heavy windrow.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

excav8ter;1671669 said:


> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_C4qoezkmSEdWdINUt5Sk10U3c/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> Hope this works.... Just playing around, blowing away a heavy windrow.


 Had our first run early this am. Still much to learn but 1000 times better than any plow


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Anyone here running the normand on a 5410 JD--machine handles the blower awesome, but there is something quirky going on with the hydraulics and we can't really move the chute while blowing at full rpms--stop and throttle back and no issue, but I d really like to make on the fly adjustments. THe windshield wiper on the back of the 6320 decided to not work at all for this event, so I ll tear into the fuses first--for whatever reason the 6320 rear window gets very snow covered where the 5410 does not--the 5410 also seems to float better over the sidewalk/ramp contour in and out of every driveway--the 6320 is much faster on the road and has some nicer "amenities"

Pretty excited--an only keep getting better from here


----------



## excav8ter

excav8ter;1671669 said:


> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_C4qoezkmSEdWdINUt5Sk10U3c/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> Hope this works.... Just playing around, blowing away a heavy windrow.


Nuts.... I thought I could share that file. Apparently not.


----------



## excav8ter

Third time out today. Getting better at it now. Finding the right gear is getting easier. Driveways are definitely getting easier too. Snow depth today was a light and fluffy 4"....the blower works flawlessly. I had my partner use the 14' Ebling to pull a parking lot clean, but leave the snow at the end so I could really put the blower to work on something deep. He left the snow anywhere between 12-18" deep, once I found the right gear, it just gobbled up the snow and threw it out in the field. Very impressive.


----------



## mr_tiggy

So I am about to pick up my Normand Inverted tomorrow and long story short for me to be able to get the blower before this coming monday, where we are forecasted to receive 30cm in total, I will be picking it up without the PDI being done on the Machine. Does anyone know what will need to be done to get this machine up and running? Just an FYI, I have never run a tractor or a tractor attachment of any kind before in my life


----------



## snoworks1

mr_tiggy;1672556 said:


> So I am about to pick up my Normand Inverted tomorrow and long story short for me to be able to get the blower before this coming monday, where we are forecasted to receive 30cm in total, I will be picking it up without the PDI being done on the Machine. Does anyone know what will need to be done to get this machine up and running? Just an FYI, I have never run a tractor or a tractor attachment of any kind before in my life


Yes! $2k more to have the hyd. hoses made and installed. That was a shocker to me! 8 hoses total with the rear blade.


----------



## excav8ter

mr_tiggy;1672556 said:


> So I am about to pick up my Normand Inverted tomorrow and long story short for me to be able to get the blower before this coming monday, where we are forecasted to receive 30cm in total, I will be picking it up without the PDI being done on the Machine. Does anyone know what will need to be done to get this machine up and running? Just an FYI, I have never run a tractor or a tractor attachment of any kind before in my life


Hmmmm. We just looked ours over pretty good, checked some nuts and bolts. Then assembled the hoses and greased everything really good. Then we hooked it up and ran it. My partner is pretty mechanically inclined.... He had everything checked over, and the hose kit installed in about an hour. I am the lucky one who gets to run it.


----------



## mr_tiggy

Ok, thanks guys. I will be back on here if I run into any issues. I sure hope mine come with the hoses. I was never informed, nor did I ask if it came with hoses or not.


----------



## excav8ter

Let's try this again....


----------



## paper65

snoworks1;1672557 said:


> Yes! $2k more to have the hyd. hoses made and installed. That was a shocker to me! 8 hoses total with the rear blade.


Are you really serious?


----------



## mr_tiggy

snoworks1;1672557 said:


> Yes! $2k more to have the hyd. hoses made and installed. That was a shocker to me! 8 hoses total with the rear blade.


You must have gotten the blower that much cheaper when you purchased it? I think the blowers run around 10k in quebec and ontario? This is what my normand cost me plus some shipping and that included the hoses.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

So assembly was really straight forward for us....install the hoses, grease everything, oil the chains, cut PTO shafts to correct length, hook up and adjust pitch, get on the road oh and grease everything again


----------



## mr_tiggy

Glad you have mentioned cutting the pto shaft. I was just going to ask if that was something I needed to do since mine does not fit. I will keep searching on how to do this....must be pretty straight forward? At what position is the PTO going to be the shortest? with the PTO shaft at level? I presume it should be made an inch or something shorter than this measurement?

Solved....


----------



## MogMan

mr_tiggy;1673572 said:


> Glad you have mentioned cutting the pto shaft. I was just going to ask if that was something I needed to do since mine does not fit. I will keep searching on how to do this....must be pretty straight forward? At what position is the PTO going to be the shortest? with the PTO shaft at level? I presume it should be made an inch or something shorter than this measurement?
> 
> Solved....


The PTO shaft would be at his shortest when the blower is off the ground


----------



## MogMan

Bought another New Holland last week, this time a T5.105.

The fit and finish is way better on the T6030 though (made in the UK vs in Italy for the T5)

Most def getting a Fendt 714 next year.

Can't wait to see how the Nokian tires hold up in the snow versus the studded R1s


----------



## excav8ter

MogMan;1673645 said:


> Bought another New Holland last week, this time a T5.105.
> 
> The fit and finish is way better on the T6030 though (made in the UK vs in Italy for the T5)
> 
> Most def getting a Fendt 714 next year.
> 
> Can't wait to see how the Nokian tires hold up in the snow versus the studded R1s


Great looking tractors!


----------



## fendt716

mog man nice tractors. on fendt are going to put blower on front or rear since 2010 front pto runs backwards of rear pto here in u.s. they gone to one unit for every one in the world.


----------



## MogMan

fendt716;1673772 said:


> mog man nice tractors. on fendt are going to put blower on front or rear since 2010 front pto runs backwards of rear pto here in u.s. they gone to one unit for every one in the world.


They're way bigger than my other tractors but I need something that does 50kph. Pneumatic cab suspension and fancy pneumatic seat is a plus too


----------



## excav8ter

MogMan;1673776 said:


> They're way bigger than my other tractors but I need something that does 50kph. Pneumatic cab suspension and fancy pneumatic seat is a plus too


That's a pretty big tractor. 101" wide, what blower will you run on it?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Dang....43 kph in our 6320 with the blower on is really quite a ride....and we have the air ride seat


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

I am interested to see how those tires work out for you though


----------



## MogMan

excav8ter;1673785 said:


> That's a pretty big tractor. 101" wide, what blower will you run on it?


Either a 102 inverted Normand or a normal Pronovost. Will see of how much $ and what type of jobs I had to refuse this season.


----------



## MogMan

SDLandscapes VT;1673789 said:


> Dang....43 kph in our 6320 with the blower on is really quite a ride....and we have the air ride seat


I do 41.6 with blower on the T6030. Indeed, quite the fun ride


----------



## excav8ter

Do you feel like your tractors slide from side to side a lot while roading? My TL100A, with the R2 rears and R1 fronts, slides from side to side quite a bit. If I'm not paying attention, i can get a little out of control quickly. 

Is a 102" blower, truly a 102"? We ordered the 8' and it's actually 92" of cut.


----------



## MogMan

excav8ter;1673848 said:


> Do you feel like your tractors slide from side to side a lot while roading? My TL100A, with the R2 rears and R1 fronts, slides from side to side quite a bit. If I'm not paying attention, i can get a little out of control quickly.
> 
> Is a 102" blower, truly a 102"? We ordered the 8' and it's actually 92" of cut.


Does sway a lot, even with the 3-pt sway bar locked. The hydraulic steering in a sweeping curve at speed is "fun", oversteer is def possible


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

All...over...the...place

Particularly with the 6320. Frankly for the work I prefer the 5410, but for logistics the 6320 is far superior (transiting speed)


----------



## SnowClear

MogMan;1673645 said:


> Can't wait to see how the Nokian tires hold up in the snow versus the studded R1s


Very nice! Definitely post your opinions about the Nokian vs R1 tires.


----------



## excav8ter

MogMan;1673814 said:


> Either a 102 inverted Normand or a normal Pronovost. Will see of how much $ and what type of jobs I had to refuse this season.


So I went back and looked at your tractor pictures....it looks like a huge tractor in the pics, but I imagine it must be similar in size to my TL100A.....correct? except yours has some extra ponies.


----------



## MogMan

excav8ter;1674540 said:


> So I went back and looked at your tractor pictures....it looks like a huge tractor in the pics, but I imagine it must be similar in size to my TL100A.....correct? except yours has some extra ponies.


I think my T6030 is same frame size as your TL100A. I'll internet it for the record. Although Neige could chime in, as he has both model.

I know that NH underrates their PTO power. The T5.105 is spec'ed at 95 PTO HP, but dealership tested it at 104hp


----------



## excav8ter

MogMan;1674610 said:


> I think my T6030 is same frame size as your TL100A. I'll internet it for the record. Although Neige could chime in, as he has both model.
> 
> I know that NH underrates their PTO power. The T5.105 is spec'ed at 95 PTO HP, but dealership tested it at 104hp


Question about PTO horsepower.....our Normand 92-280 is rated for 50-85 PTO horsepower, so we specifically looked for something at, or close to 85 hp. Are you risking damage to the blower by running more horsepower?


----------



## Neige

excav8ter;1675270 said:


> Question about PTO horsepower.....our Normand 92-280 is rated for 50-85 PTO horsepower, so we specifically looked for something at, or close to 85 hp. Are you risking damage to the blower by running more horsepower?


No, there is no risk in damaging the blower if you go over. It is safe to say you can go up to 100 PTO hp without any concerns.


----------



## castle456

Is there anyone on here running a kubota L5740 or a comparable tractor (50-60hp) with an inverted blower. If so how do you like and can you please make a video of it blowing.

Thank You


----------



## MogMan

Neige;1675308 said:


> No, there is no risk in damaging the blower if you go over. It is safe to say you can go up to 100 PTO hp without any concerns.


For the record, I have close to 130hp at the PTO of the Unimog and no problem there. Should be noted that I drive it like I stole it.


----------



## Neige

castle456;1675420 said:


> Is there anyone on here running a kubota L5740 or a comparable tractor (50-60hp) with an inverted blower. If so how do you like and can you please make a video of it blowing.
> 
> Thank You


I know someone in Ottawa who has 10 of these machines with the Normand N74 inverted. I blocked out his number, but if you call me I will give you his number and you can ask him how well it works. If you are interested, I have one of these models in stock.
Paul 514-608-4675


----------



## Neige

excav8ter;1673848 said:


> Do you feel like your tractors slide from side to side a lot while roading? My TL100A, with the R2 rears and R1 fronts, slides from side to side quite a bit. If I'm not paying attention, i can get a little out of control quickly.
> 
> Is a 102" blower, truly a 102"? We ordered the 8' and it's actually 92" of cut.


Yes the Normand N102-310INV is truly that size. In the inverted there is the 74 inch, 82 inch, 92 inch, & 102 inch widths.


----------



## RAZOR

castle456;1675420 said:


> Is there anyone on here running a kubota L5740 or a comparable tractor (50-60hp) with an inverted blower. If so how do you like and can you please make a video of it blowing.
> 
> Thank You


I have two L5740's and a new L6060. If I ever get caught up with thing and have some spare time I can try and take a video.


----------



## DGODGR

RAZOR;1675659 said:


> I have two L5740's and a new L6060. If I ever get caught up with thing and have some spare time I can try and take a video.


Which blower are you running on that size machine?


----------



## RAZOR

DGODGR;1675717 said:


> Which blower are you running on that size machine?


80 inch Normand Econor blowers.


----------



## castle456

Thanks everyone for getting back to me so quickly. Neige thanks I will give you a call one of these days. I am planning on starting snowplowing next season, doing all my research now. Razor it would be great if you can get a video, it would be greatly appreciated. Also let me know how the new l6060 compares to the l5740.

Thanks


----------



## RAZOR

I don't find a great difference between the L6060 and the L5740 other than the price. In my opinion it is the same powertrain with a wider cab stuck on top of the frame. The new seat is nice and if you are into fancy electronics the L6060 might be a better choice. We had the first tier 4 regeneration the last time we were out, we were a bit nerveous about what was going to happen but it was not a big deal. If I did it again I would press my dealer harder to find one of the last L5740 mostly because of the better price. It is funny that side by side the L6060 looks like a much larger tractor but it is not, just more glass to fog up on you.


----------



## mr_tiggy

castle456;1675986 said:


> Thanks everyone for getting back to me so quickly. Neige thanks I will give you a call one of these days. I am planning on starting snowplowing next season, doing all my research now. Razor it would be great if you can get a video, it would be greatly appreciated. Also let me know how the new l6060 compares to the l5740.
> 
> Thanks


This is a video posted by IMAGE earlier in this thread, might be what you are looking for.


----------



## castle456

RAZOR;1676008 said:


> I don't find a great difference between the L6060 and the L5740 other than the price. In my opinion it is the same powertrain with a wider cab stuck on top of the frame. The new seat is nice and if you are into fancy electronics the L6060 might be a better choice. We had the first tier 4 regeneration the last time we were out, we were a bit nerveous about what was going to happen but it was not a big deal. If I did it again I would press my dealer harder to find one of the last L5740 mostly because of the better price. It is funny that side by side the L6060 looks like a much larger tractor but it is not, just more glass to fog up on you.


Yeah….I am leaning towards getting a l5740. Because of price and no real HP difference and also with all the electronics on the l6060 I feel you might get more problems but I think they are great at times. It is great to hear the regeneration didn't affect you. Also if you ever get time to do a video please let me know.

Thanks again


----------



## castle456

mr_tiggy;1676039 said:


> This is a video posted by IMAGE earlier in this thread, might be what you are looking for.


Yes I watched already. I was really looking for a kubota (l5740) with a inverted it see how it worked. I bet though it is pretty close to this.

Thanks


----------



## StuveCorp

How fast(as in road speed) are those Kubota 6060's compared to the bigger tractors?


----------



## RAZOR

StuveCorp;1676321 said:


> How fast(as in road speed) are those Kubota 6060's compared to the bigger tractors?


They are slower, L5740 does 26 kph and the L6060 does 27 kph. If your route is not tight a hydro tractor is a waste of money. I'm sure some of the experts will disagree but in a tight route they are as productive if not more productive than the larger tractors especially is you take operator fatigue into consideration.


----------



## Neige

RAZOR;1676394 said:


> They are slower, L5740 does 26 kph and the L6060 does 27 kph. If your route is not tight a hydro tractor is a waste of money. I'm sure some of the experts will disagree but in a tight route they are as productive if not more productive than the larger tractors especially is you take operator fatigue into consideration.


I have to agree with you, there is nothing easier then a hydro tractor to drive.
You always have the perfect speed and RPM. The larger tractors allow for larger blowers, thus saving a pass on larger drives. The one other advantage is a larger fuel tank, allowing to work 12 hours before the need to refuel. Either or an ag tractor rocks for doing resi drives.


----------



## KeeblerBP

Thinking about getting into this type of driveway service next season and have a couple questions.

Several people have talked about plugging the blower and how there is a learning curve to keep it from happening. I was wondering what it takes to plug these because seeing people use it as a box blade in the videos and then turning on the pto when they get to the end of the driveway doesn't seem to affect it?

I was also wondering if you have to run the tractors close to the pto speed or if lower rpms work fine if the snow isn't too deep?


----------



## excav8ter

KeeblerBP;1677318 said:


> Thinking about getting into this type of driveway service next season and have a couple questions.
> 
> Several people have talked about plugging the blower and how there is a learning curve to keep it from happening. I was wondering what it takes to plug these because seeing people use it as a box blade in the videos and then turning on the pto when they get to the end of the driveway doesn't seem to affect it?
> 
> I was also wondering if you have to run the tractors close to the pto speed or if lower rpms work fine if the snow isn't too deep?


Hey Keebler, my first time out, I plugged my blower 4 or 5 times. Cleaning it out isn't too hard, but it takes a few minutes. I don't always have my pto rpm's up at 540, quite often I'm down around 450 or even less. We have not had any deep snow, but we have had a few heavy and wet snow events this year, 4" was the deepest. When I was out in the heavy, wet snow, I found that ground speed and PTO speed are WAY more critical. The light fluffy snow is not a big problems at slower speeds. On driveways, I am trying to pick a gear that will give me higher pto speed, but it's a learning process. 
I have had a few plugs where I've stopped to talk to my plow truck driver, and plugged the blower because I was not picking the blower up enough to let it clear itself enough.


----------



## snoworks1

Well last night was the first night out with my Kubota M110. I will update later on the good, the bad and the ugly!


----------



## blowerman

We've been lucky with the inverted when it comes to plugs; almost never happens. I've posted a video sucking wet slush at low rpm's with no problems


----------



## StuveCorp

I'm wondering how useful the rear scapping blade really is? Curious what guys have to say on it.


----------



## MogMan

blowerman;1679925 said:


> We've been lucky with the inverted when it comes to plugs; almost never happens. I've posted a video sucking wet slush at low rpm's with no problems


I've plugged it 5 times yesterday over 10hr. It was 1-2 degrees though and I do a lot of drag n' blow so it was expected


----------



## MogMan

StuveCorp;1680064 said:


> I'm wondering how useful the rear scapping blade really is? Curious what guys have to say on it.


I bought one last year but managed to install it last week. Used it a bunch of times yesterday. Really useful to scrape it flat. I don't use it all the time but makes a clean job, especially in front of garage doors.

I drop the blower to the ground and use the rear blade to lift the blower up a couples inches. Gives you 1800lbs of weight on that edge.


----------



## blowerman

StuveCorp;1680064 said:


> I'm wondering how useful the rear scapping blade really is? Curious what guys have to say on it.


My guys don't use it at all. Ok, if they break a shear bolt and are on the last unit, then it might get used. Are pivot bolts fall out when we used it a lot. All in all, I'd be fine if we didn't have it.


----------



## mr_tiggy

Here is another rear blade question. So I have the Normand inverted but do not have 3 rear scv (yet). Parts are not available until new year. 
My question is, my rear blade hangs below the snowblower and it gets moved up by the weight of the blower when in use. Is this bad for the rear blade cylinders to be moved like this when there is no fluid moving the cylinders? I'd rather not wreck these. Should I raise the blade until I get my third valve?
Also, who would a person contact about getting some sort of electric/hydraulic joystick or remote? It would be nice to have a joystick that runs the chute functions?
Thanks


----------



## StuveCorp

MogMan;1680218 said:


> I bought one last year but managed to install it last week. Used it a bunch of times yesterday. Really useful to scrape it flat. I don't use it all the time but makes a clean job, especially in front of garage doors.
> 
> I drop the blower to the ground and use the rear blade to lift the blower up a couples inches. Gives you 1800lbs of weight on that edge.





blowerman;1681012 said:


> My guys don't use it at all. Ok, if they break a shear bolt and are on the last unit, then it might get used. Are pivot bolts fall out when we used it a lot. All in all, I'd be fine if we didn't have it.


I've gone back and reread the thread and watched Paul's Youtubes and was thinking to it would be just as good to skip the backblade. It seems the newer blowers are 'shorter' so there wasn't as much overhang and it seems to be a somewhat expensive option?


----------



## MogMan

mr_tiggy;1681223 said:


> Here is another rear blade question. So I have the Normand inverted but do not have 3 rear scv (yet). Parts are not available until new year.
> My question is, my rear blade hangs below the snowblower and it gets moved up by the weight of the blower when in use. Is this bad for the rear blade cylinders to be moved like this when there is no fluid moving the cylinders? I'd rather not wreck these. Should I raise the blade until I get my third valve?
> Also, who would a person contact about getting some sort of electric/hydraulic joystick or remote? It would be nice to have a joystick that runs the chute functions?
> Thanks


Isnt there an option to have that blade chained instead of the hydraulic cylinders ? It could be runned like this until you get your missing parts


----------



## Herm Witte

MogMan;1681233 said:


> Isnt there an option to have that blade chained instead of the hydraulic cylinders ? It could be runned like this until you get your missing parts


That's how we use our Normand and our Shoule is spring (shock) assisted.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Looking at 10" over the weekend--our second run, but first time with serious snow. We ve triple checked everything and are hoping that many more will sign on through the storm--every time it threatens serious snows we add more driveways....the blowers are hungry


----------



## excav8ter

SDLandscapes VT;1683941 said:


> Looking at 10" over the weekend--our second run, but first time with serious snow. We ve triple checked everything and are hoping that many more will sign on through the storm--every time it threatens serious snows we add more driveways....the blowers are hungry


Good Luck! Hope it goes well for you. I'm curious to see how a 10" snow fall will slow the blower down. So far the biggest we've seen is 4" .

We're supposed to get 3-6" today and tonight.


----------



## MogMan

excav8ter;1684233 said:


> Good Luck! Hope it goes well for you. I'm curious to see how a 10" snow fall will slow the blower down. So far the biggest we've seen is 4" .
> 
> We're supposed to get 3-6" today and tonight.


Biggest I've done with an inverted was 18".

Didnt slow things down at all. Was actually fun, looking at guys with pickup trucks struggling just to move around.


----------



## excav8ter

MogMan;1684244 said:


> Biggest I've done with an inverted was 18".
> 
> Didnt slow things down at all. Was actually fun, looking at guys with pickup trucks struggling just to move around.


Good to hear..... my concern is the length of the roads that I do for my HOA. Close to 3 miles..... the driveways I am not concerned about at all. On the roads, so far this year, I usually run 7 mph, in 4" of snow and up to 12 mph in 2" of light fluff....


----------



## blowerman

After 3 seasons using a Normand inverted blower, we finally had a breakdown beyond shear bolts. Picked up a manhole cover that managed to make it into the impeller. Oddly the impeller shear bolt didn't snap; that will be a different issue to address. With a mangled impeller fin stopping the rotation, out came the cutting torch. For safety, I removed the blower from the tractor. Before cutting, I checked several measurements with a tape and level for squareness and studied all welds for cracks. Minus a little wear & tear, the normand has held up like a rock. Everything seemed close to normal except the impeller. At this point I fired up the torch and cut approximately 1/4" off the outside of the fin. Spinning by hand, I still couldn't rotate it all the way around. Fired up the torch again, another 1/4" and she now would turn full rotation. 
Moral of the story, these are one strong blower. I've posted pictures of skid loader blowers that hooked curbs and manholes needing the whole frame straightened on one and the other I cut the entire bottom out and remade it. 

Also, called Steve (Fargo) to chat about impellers, answered right away and is checking into changing out the parts. 
Hope everyone is having good luck with their blowers. I know we love them.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

So our first "serious" snow event with the Normands. The guys are getting much better and overall I think we did fairly well. Most of the issues surrounded the concierge shoveling and timing. The biggest calamity today was due to the extreme cold when we started the side glass door on the 6320 exploded into nothing....bit of a cold ride. Hopefully we ll have parts tomorrow or Tuesday--we are going to put the John Deere "Machine Down" to the test


----------



## excav8ter

blowerman;1685597 said:


> After 3 seasons using a Normand inverted blower, we finally had a breakdown beyond shear bolts. Picked up a manhole cover that managed to make it into the impeller. Oddly the impeller shear bolt didn't snap; that will be a different issue to address. With a mangled impeller fin stopping the rotation, out came the cutting torch. For safety, I removed the blower from the tractor. Before cutting, I checked several measurements with a tape and level for squareness and studied all welds for cracks. Minus a little wear & tear, the normand has held up like a rock. Everything seemed close to normal except the impeller. At this point I fired up the torch and cut approximately 1/4" off the outside of the fin. Spinning by hand, I still couldn't rotate it all the way around. Fired up the torch again, another 1/4" and she now would turn full rotation.
> Moral of the story, these are one strong blower. I've posted pictures of skid loader blowers that hooked curbs and manholes needing the whole frame straightened on one and the other I cut the entire bottom out and remade it.
> 
> Also, called Steve (Fargo) to chat about impellers, answered right away and is checking into changing out the parts.
> Hope everyone is having good luck with their blowers. I know we love them.


Wow! How do you "pick up" a manhole cover? That is AWESOME that your Normand wasn't damaged more.


----------



## Herm Witte

excav8ter;1685843 said:


> Wow! How do you "pick up" a manhole cover? That is AWESOME that your Normand wasn't damaged more.


We have hit manholes two of last three winters. Pulled one out of the asphalt. Bent the cutting edge and blower housing a bit both times. Nothing that $$$ can't fix.


----------



## excav8ter

Herm Witte;1686400 said:


> We have hit manholes two of last three winters. Pulled one out of the asphalt. Bent the cutting edge and blower housing a bit both times. Nothing that $$$ can't fix.


So are they manhole covers that sticks up a little bit? My big HOA just had the final coat of asphalt done in October. Before that, there was 55-60 manhole covers to watch for.....now I only have 1. It sure is nice....


----------



## blowerman

excav8ter;1685843 said:


> Wow! How do you "pick up" a manhole cover? That is AWESOME that your Normand wasn't damaged more.


Manhole cover sticks up slightly, cutting edge hooked it, one good flip and it was in the impeller before the driveshaft shear bolt snapped. Drives were finished, they were just cutting curb lines on public roads.

As Herm said, just bring $$$ it's only metal....
In my shop we have standard torches, a Miller 252 wire welder, portable stick welder, Miller 625 extreme plasma cutter, & several grinders and chop saws. Don't forget about the stock of spare steel plate, sheets, and misc. stock on hand to cut out, fabricate and then rebuild if needed almost any part on a blower, pusher, or bucket. (Sometimes in the middle of the night)

Just the nature of snow removal. I'll try to grab pics later.


----------



## blowerman

*Back blade*

heavily worn down skid shoes. The cutting edge is still ok, they aren't the same level anyway. I just weld on another layer of steel every year. (Sorry, pic posted upside down)


----------



## blowerman

Bolts that never stay tight. They hold on rear scraper. 4 hours of use and they'll loosen again. Any suggestion?


----------



## alcs

Have you tried *loctite*
Comes in Blue med hold strength
And Red very strong hold


----------



## newhere

Your bolts are coming loose because they are not isolated from the blades movement. Bearing or not the twisting force is still being transferred into the bolt a little bit. You need to get them isolated some how with some type of sleeve/bushing system or you will never fix it. Loctite wont do a darn thing. Lock nuts wont fix it. If they are isolated you could put them on finger tight whack the threads one time with a chisel and they wound NEVER come off.


----------



## newhere

Ok, ran my blower i bought last year for the first time on a pretty serious snow fall.

Im going to be the first on this thread to say it but that thing is a complete joke, i hate it, it slowed me down to half pace, i cant stand it, its brand new with 5 hrs max on it make me a reasonable offer and its yours.

For condos and super tight small straight drive ways i could see how a blower would work but for everything else i just cant see blowers ever being faster.

Problems-

- lack of visibility to the rear and mostly rear right. Cant see a darn thing. The tractor lights are bouncing off the shute blinding me, that corner of the work area is dark because of the shute blocking all the light. The blower is big and long and i think im close to the garage door but cant see for sure.

- Sheer weight of it. On a mid size tractor its just way to heavy. The 3pt is way to slow to lift it. Its very hard on the machine roading it with the rough roads and potholes.

The biggest weight issue is that it takes my tractor from being super light and nimble and turns it into a bulky heavy slow boat anchor. With my back blade/plow combo i can just whip the tractor around. I can power slide it 180 degrees in a 12' wide driveway 100 times a night. With a hydro trans i can go from reverse to forward in less then a second, i dont even slow down i just ease onto the other pedal to slow and then smack it and it hooks up and goes. I can fly up to a garage door at 15mph and in the last 8' hit the pedal and i know the tractor will stop on a dime i drop the rear blade and full speed forward. This is all done extremely fast. 
The blower slows me down because im not nimble, i cant stop quick, it takes waaay longer to change directions , its to heavy to power slide the tractor, i dont trust the tractor being able to stop in time. You guys running bigger ag tractors wont get this because your not nimble to begin with. Your gear changes are slow, your forward/reverse changes are slow, you never could dream of sliding a big 15k lb tractor sideways 180 degrees. Your gear selection limits your ground speed were i can run 1mph to 16mph all in under 5 seconds under full throttle the whole time

- Cleanliness of the drive after completion is a big issue. The blower without a back blade just leaves a mess. I can get within 2'' of a car or door all night long. My shovel crew has nothing to clean in front of garage doors. Its such a long unit that normally i can run parallel to a garage door bank of say 4-5 single doors or two double doors and at the last door i cut it out hard and leave just a tiny bit of snow in the corner. I run within 2'' of the doors as im parallel to them so i get it all. The blower is just to bulky and long to do that with, the arse end of it hangs out so far you cant cut a turn rear hard or it will hit the door. I think a lot of other guys are just getting the bulk of the snow out of the drives, you made no promises to have them clean and spotless. Your drives still need the home owner to get on a shovel for 10 minutes.

- The 2' tall HEAP of snow it leaves after a pull !!!!!! what the heck is the deal with that? I put a 1.5 inch thick poly edge on it and put a 45 degree miter on the top 1/2" so i have about 1" of flat poly. It leaves a HUGE pile when i come to the end of a drive. Maybe switching back to steel or putting a 1/2" thick poly edge would help but no way does it do what i see Neige do in his videos. No way.

- The operator skill it takes to keep a eye on the rear, sides and the shute all at the same time, operate the PTO, the rpms, snow placement not into a neighbors drive way or onto the front porch. Ive been running iron since i could walk so i adapted very fast to it but no way would i ever put any other guy on that thing. The only person i would let run it would be a country boy that has been running a tractor since he was in pampers.

- HUGE problem is the lack of area it covers per pass. I am use to covering 8.5 feet with NO ZERO NODA spill off per pass. two swipes and i have the average drive done spotless. I have a lot of drives with large parking areas 1,500-2,000 sq ft of parking plus the long drive itself. The blower does ok on the long strip but the back and forth back and forth to cover the big surface areas drives me crazy. This problem mixed with the weight factor slowing me down just takes way to long.

All in all i cant ever see myself using that thing again unless its over 12" of snow and i have huge piles every where. I have never once in my life pulled up to a drive way and said " well ****, i cant plow this i have no where to put snow" a plow just makes piles bigger and pushes them back a little farther each plow. The blower can handle the long strips nice but a plow does them even faster. You put it down, angle it and fly like the wind and it flings it back no problem three times faster then a blower. Seeing videos of Neige run a blower on subdivision streets is no where near as fast as a plow going 16-20mph.

If i had ran that blower for my entire route i think my time would have doubled at a minimum. And i would have been exhausted from the mental awareness and physical demands of running it. My tractor would have burnt twice as much fuel because normally i just run at partial to low throttle and i i still have plenty of hp and speed. The blower wanted full RPMS at 2,500. The box/blade combo is so easy to see and run i can about operate half asleep because it allows me to see so much. For me that is the point to running the tractor.... i can see the back of my plow i can see the front of my plow. I can stop quick, turn around quick, change directions quick, im short and compact and can fit in tight spaces, i can turn on a dime and not worry about overhang. The blower takes all of those things away.

The thing is a massive flop, once i put a v-xt boss on the front so i dont have that plow hanging way out it will be a even faster combination. The boss is going to get the mount tucked way in tight so the plow stays close to the tractor. 
For guys running blowers on less then ideal driveways i would encourage you to have a 8.5' or 9' wide and tall back blade fabbed up for snow falls of 6" or less. I Guarantee your times will be blown away. Pun intended.

I will take a thousand dollar loss if some one wants to buy it. Keep in mind i have about 700 into lines, fabric guard and couplers. I would be willing to deliver a ways out for fuel one way.

Pic's for comparison


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## StuveCorp

Picasso, it looks like you need a bigger tractor for that blower? What's the blower model?

What is up with your dump?


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## newhere

Dump is for sale for pi$$ nothing, wana buy it? needs a engine 366 big block. Has a plow mount, plumbed for salter and has controls. Dump bed is VERY solid. 


I think a bigger tractor will just be slower, gear shifting, more weight, larger turning radius, then i need a wider blower.


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## StuveCorp

newhere;1687535 said:


> Dump is for sale for pi$$ nothing, wana buy it? needs a engine 366 big block. Has a plow mount, plumbed for salter and has controls. Dump bed is VERY solid.
> 
> I think a bigger tractor will just be slower, gear shifting, more weight, larger turning radius, then i need a wider blower.


I thought you were getting rid of it a couple years ago? Sorry but I will never buy a gas dump truck.

How wide is your blower? I'm no expert but the bigger tractors have reversers and think you can bump up or down in the ranges? Seems way too quick to give up on this already?


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## newhere

74 maybe??? 80? im not sure been awhile. 

My only other idea is to put that big box blade on the front and the blower on the back. I use the box to cover the area and pull all the snow into the road then use the blower to make it disappear.


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## snoworks1

newhere;1687535 said:


> Dump is for sale for pi$$ nothing, wana buy it? needs a engine 366 big block. Has a plow mount, plumbed for salter and has controls. Dump bed is VERY solid.
> 
> I think a bigger tractor will just be slower, gear shifting, more weight, larger turning radius, then i need a wider blower.


Picasso,

I have a Kubota M110 that is super fast and nimble. I can make 90 deg. turns(side loaded garages) way better than a Jeep wrangler with front and rear plows set up. I have used this tractor twice and I can tell you that it blows away my previous favorite Jeep set-up. I think its a size issue.

Some other comments:

-I could not believe how well our Normand scraped down to pavement. Yes you have some driveways that are not perfect, so you can't expect great results on those, but a blade and or rear plow will have the same issues. 
-My first time out I hit 4.5 minutes a driveway, that was with 2 hours of really slow driving. I still have not mastered it yet, but I feel that I can work my way down to 2.5 to 3 minutes with no problems.
-U-Edge seems to be wearing a little to fast for my liking.
-I have yet to find a good use for the hyd. rear blade as it does not make sense to use it in conjunction with the 3 point hitch. I just set it flush with the blower and leave it alone.
-Glare off of the blower is bad at times. I think rear light placement is crucial.
-I still have to get used to what settings keep the cab from fogging up bad. Worst case senerio, keep a couple of rags handy to wipe down the inside of the cab from time to time.
-Don't hit a low lying tree branch.
-Don't hit a low lying tree branch.
-I had to order front weights, even my big machine needs them.


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## newhere

I had to pull the weights off my loader and put them on the tractor. About 1,000 pounds or so on the front.


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## excav8ter

This is our first season with a tractor/blower, and it impresses me every time I go out. I am doing some parking lots that I NEVER thought I could do quickly with the tractor/blower. We are running a New Holland TL100A with a Normand 92-280 Inverted. It seems to be a perfect combination so far. Where we are using the tractor, it is definitely faster than our F350 with the Boss V up front and the 14' Ebling out back. But we have a one church where the blower is not totally practical. But I still do the main drives and all the areas that DO make sense. The biggest thing to me, even on bigger lots, is that you touch the snow once and it's gone. No repeated windrowing of the snow. 

We plan to add another tractor/blower next year.


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## MogMan

snoworks1;1687566 said:


> Picasso,
> 
> I have a Kubota M110 that is super fast and nimble. I can make 90 deg. turns(side loaded garages) way better than a Jeep wrangler with front and rear plows set up. I have used this tractor twice and I can tell you that it blows away my previous favorite Jeep set-up. I think its a size issue.
> 
> Some other comments:
> 
> -I could not believe how well our Normand scraped down to pavement. Yes you have some driveways that are not perfect, so you can't expect great results on those, but a blade and or rear plow will have the same issues.
> -My first time out I hit 4.5 minutes a driveway, that was with 2 hours of really slow driving. I still have not mastered it yet, but I feel that I can work my way down to 2.5 to 3 minutes with no problems.
> -U-Edge seems to be wearing a little to fast for my liking.
> -I have yet to find a good use for the hyd. rear blade as it does not make sense to use it in conjunction with the 3 point hitch. I just set it flush with the blower and leave it alone.
> -Glare off of the blower is bad at times. I think rear light placement is crucial.
> -I still have to get used to what settings keep the cab from fogging up bad. Worst case senerio, keep a couple of rags handy to wipe down the inside of the cab from time to time.
> -Don't hit a low lying tree branch.
> -Don't hit a low lying tree branch.
> -I had to order front weights, even my big machine needs them.


To counter fogging, run the A/C at the same time as your heat.

Takes a couple minutes but drops the humidity in the cab way low


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## blowerman

For the fog problem, we run the AC but also have built in window defrosters. (In window, not fans)
It's a non issue for us. Another thing, I'm sure the huffing & puffing while stressed isn't helping the fog build up. 
I can agree in some instances about times. Using as skid and 66" blower I can clear a 128 drive condo project in 2.45-3.5 hours.. With the m100 and normand the time was 4-4.5 hours. Mind you, this would be a 1-3" dry snow. Move over to wet snow and times went up quite a bit with the skid blower. As for the inverted blower and tractor, our times never change.

In defense of the bigger tractors, have you ever used some of the larger geared units that we/other guys run?
My Kubota M100 is clutch less shifting for gear & direction. Step on the throttle and you can tap the button on the armrest to fly from 1-8 without letting off. It's also faster, more powerful, and comfortable than small units. Seat is 15 degrees to the right, hydro handles are close, three point is also a button on the arm rest, plus we can set the maximum rise height and drop depth including speeds with the dials on the control panel. Is a tractor w/inverted blower the end all machine, no! But they are nice to have once you get the hang of it. 
Give us details on the size, model, etc. For the right price I'd buy another one just to have on hand.
If you don't want to publish price on open forum, just pm me the details and contact


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## SnowClear

blowerman;1688145 said:


> Another thing, I'm sure the huffing & puffing while stressed isn't helping the fog build up.
> 
> No joke. I had to tell my guys to breath through their noses. It made a huge difference. Air conditioner switched "on" did the rest.
> 
> In defense of the bigger tractors, have you ever used some of the larger geared units that we/other guys run?
> My Kubota M100 is clutch less shifting for gear & direction. Step on the throttle and you can tap the button on the armrest to fly from 1-8 without letting off. It's also faster, more powerful, and comfortable than small units. Seat is 15 degrees to the right, hydro handles are close, three point is also a button on the arm rest, plus we can set the maximum rise height and drop depth including speeds with the dials on the control panel.
> 
> I'm running JD 5E series. Not quite as lux on the options as your Kubota, but I'm thinking Picasso might have been more impressed with a larger tractor.
> t


Regarding Picasso's comments
I'm phasing out the sub compact (JD 2305s) and compact utility tractor/blowers (JD 4720s) for residential because the larger tractor/blower combo is just soo much faster and economical. Granted, everything prior to this year was front mounted blowers. I also run pull plow and front plow combos for residential. It's fast, but not nearly as fast and, more importantly, consistent as the larger tractor/blower combo.

I believe MerimacMill (Sp?) posted a while ago that fuel usage is astonishingly low compared to how much work is done per hour. Having had experience running the smaller tractors and the larger ones (now) - the larger tractor/blower combo is definitely the way to go. Not to mention the fact the larger tractor has huge opportunity for mixed use (commercial/residential).


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## MogMan

SnowClear;1689636 said:


> ...
> I believe MerimacMill (Sp?) posted a while ago that fuel usage is astonishingly low compared to how much work is done per hour. Having had experience running the smaller tractors and the larger ones (now) - the larger tractor/blower combo is definitely the way to go. Not to mention the fact the larger tractor has huge opportunity for mixed use (commercial/residential).


FTR, My bigger T6030 does around 25 liters/hour while my new T5.105 (euro Tier4) uses around 20 liters/hour


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## SnowClear

MogMan;1689881 said:


> FTR, My bigger T6030 does around 25 liters/hour while my new T5.105 (euro Tier4) uses around 20 liters/hour


Is that the factory spec or what you've experienced?

For example my 5101E factory spec, at max load/rpm, uses around 5.5 gallons per hour. But my experience is that it uses between 3-4 gallons per hour. Of course, I rarely operate at max load 100% of the time. (13-15 liters per hour, roughly).


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## MogMan

SnowClear;1690356 said:


> Is that the factory spec or what you've experienced?
> 
> For example my 5101E factory spec, at max load/rpm, uses around 5.5 gallons per hour. But my experience is that it uses between 3-4 gallons per hour. Of course, I rarely operate at max load 100% of the time. (13-15 liters per hour, roughly).


Those are all ballpark figures, based on reading my fuel gauge vs hours worked. Real life is probably lower than that


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## CAT420DITPLOWER

StuveCorp;1680064 said:


> I'm wondering how useful the rear scapping blade really is? Curious what guys have to say on it.


I use it steady on my Normand 82". Advantages I've found are closer to garage doors, or any other objects your up against. Also find it helps clean the transition at the road a lot better if the blower edge comes off the ground due to angle changes or the curb height, backblade at least maintains contact to keep pulling snow. I run a chain backblade, not sure if its worth the money to go up to a HYD, especially if you have to add a 3rd remote.


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## CAT420DITPLOWER

Im running a normand 82" on a 45 PTO HP tractor. It works, and fairly well as far as i'm concerned. I wont lie, another 5-10HP would help on certain snow, but as long as you operate a little differently in that snow, it works fine. I'm in ottawa, i've already done my route 7 times this season. Broke one shear, clogged it twice, that is all that has gone wrong. Both times was my fault as i had pulled out a full box and hit the PTO without bumping my RPMS up first. Last night I had to clear an area off in a field for a guy, bout half an arce or so, worked mint. Once I found a happy gear it ate up the 12" with very minimal side spillage. Only thing im working on solving now is a way to slow down deflector and rotator speeds, ive seen a few options to maybe try out.


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## castle456

CAT420DITPLOWER;1690651 said:


> Im running a normand 82" on a 45 PTO HP tractor. It works, and fairly well as far as i'm concerned. I wont lie, another 5-10HP would help on certain snow, but as long as you operate a little differently in that snow, it works fine. I'm in ottawa, i've already done my route 7 times this season. Broke one shear, clogged it twice, that is all that has gone wrong. Both times was my fault as i had pulled out a full box and hit the PTO without bumping my RPMS up first. Last night I had to clear an area off in a field for a guy, bout half an arce or so, worked mint. Once I found a happy gear it ate up the 12" with very minimal side spillage. Only thing im working on solving now is a way to slow down deflector and rotator speeds, ive seen a few options to maybe try out.


If you have a video or if you can make one, I would really like to see your setup working.
thanks


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## StuveCorp

CAT420DITPLOWER;1690619 said:


> I use it steady on my Normand 82". Advantages I've found are closer to garage doors, or any other objects your up against. Also find it helps clean the transition at the road a lot better if the blower edge comes off the ground due to angle changes or the curb height, backblade at least maintains contact to keep pulling snow. I run a chain backblade, not sure if its worth the money to go up to a HYD, especially if you have to add a 3rd remote.


Thumbs Up Cool, thanks for sharing.

I know Paul always recomends higher power tractors when guys ask so there must be something too that?


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## excav8ter

So far so good. This is a pretty typical driveway, 3 stalls on an angle to the road, with about a 4' slope in 45 feet.


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## MogMan

excav8ter;1705782 said:


> So far so good. This is a pretty typical driveway, 3 stalls on an angle to the road, with about a 4' slope in 45 feet.


]

Keep the vids coming ! Good stuff !


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## blowerman

Cool video... I feel guilty I'm not posting


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## Neige

Very nice video, remove the 20 seconds before and after and you are getting the job done in under 3 minuets. Beautiful site lines at the road, and no visable piles on the property. Job well done. Thumbs Up


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## StuveCorp

blowerman;1706119 said:


> Cool video... I feel guilty I'm not posting


No doubt, lets see some then...


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## snoworks1

Here is a clip of my AG tractor and blower in action.






We are supposed to get 8 to 12 inches tonight, I will try to get better footage!

CGB


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## excav8ter

Neige;1707549 said:


> Very nice video, remove the 20 seconds before and after and you are getting the job done in under 3 minuets. Beautiful site lines at the road, and no visable piles on the property. Job well done. Thumbs Up


Thank you Paul!

I am working on some different camera mounts for some different views. Hopefully I can get one of them done next week. Always fun to get different points of view on video. Going to see if my camera will do time lapse on a parking lot we do....never thought the tractor/blower would be fast than a truck, in a cut up parking lot.... boy was I wrong. The maneuverability of the tractor and the versatility of the blower cut my time in half on a parking lot.


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## excav8ter

Do you guys run any extra weight on your tractors? We received about 4" of new snow yesterday afternoon and 2-4" more over night. 
The reason I ask, is because we also had some wind along with the snow, and it left some long drifts down a couple of the roads we do. The wind blown snow proved to be VERY challenging to get traction in. Lots of "wheel hop" and not much traction. For the record, I was in the lowest possible gear, 1st range and 1st gear (.99 mph).
would some more weight help me? I spoke with Steve at Fargo Snow, and he suggested having a plow run through the drifts and roll it over into a wind row first, then blow it. I am pretty sure that is going to be the best way to deal with the drifts. The drifts were up to 18" deep.....


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## excav8ter

snoworks1;1708097 said:


> Here is a clip of my AG tractor and blower in action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are supposed to get 8 to 12 inches tonight, I will try to get better footage!
> 
> CGB


Well Snoworks1, did you guys get a lot of snow last night?

I was going to try and get some more video today, but it's snowing to hard.... I think.


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## SDLandscapes VT

*Weight*

Excav8ter

Good question about the weight...I m curious

So we love our tractor/blower combos and we are continuing to add more resi accounts every time we get weather. I wish that we would just get big snow storms. We ve gotten a ton of 2"-4" storms, an ice storm fiasco, and most recently a 2" storm with temps around -15F (over top of the ice from the icestorm)

During the freakishly cold event our largest tractor (JD 6320) must have been low on air in the front tires due to the cold and the extra skidding caused a bead breakage. We had one flat and scrapped a tire and then now the second one is flat--went flat in the parking spot so should be repairable. I can tell you it is not fun to change a tire at -15 F. Would either filling these fronts or adding suitcase weights take away the front skid?

The front tires on our 5410 are filled and it doesn't skid as much but still is hoppy?

Thoughts--I just want several back to back 8" to 12" storms so we can be head and shoulders above the plows


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## snoworks1

We keep getting snow after snow after snow, lol. We have been almost non stop since 12/31/2013. I think we have gone out 10 times in the last 5 days. When it calms down and we get an easy event I will post more videos.


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## blowerman

As of now I dont have extra weight on my M100x. If drives are icy, the tractor will slip some. Suitcase weights would help for me, but I doubt I'll add them. I've thought about adding the loader frame or plow mount.


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## snoworks1

blowerman;1711251 said:


> As of now I dont have extra weight on my M100x. If drives are icy, the tractor will slip some. Suitcase weights would help for me, but I doubt I'll add them. I've thought about adding the loader frame or plow mount.


Blowerman, the suitcase weights make a huge difference. My M110 was was a bouncing mess prior to the weights, now it runs smooth as glass 85% of the time!


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## PTSolutions

> Blowerman, the suitcase weights make a huge difference. My M110 was was a bouncing mess prior to the weights, now it runs smooth as glass 85% of the time!


Yep, added almost 1k lbs to the front of our dk90 and it helped. Could still use some more though.

Here is a really crappy video, we have been so busy I haven't had time to get any good pictures or vids. This is my dad running the tractor, he is a bit tired, we had been out every day that whole week and this street was the end of the route. You can see how slick the pavement was to. Makes for some interesting situations on steep drives.


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## CAT 245ME

I was looking on the Normand site and was wondering if anyone has any experience with the Normand Fonctions Plus, I'm guessing this blower is kind of along the same lines as the Pronovost PXPL.

http://www.cienormand.com/depliant/english/FonctionPlus_eng.pdf


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## mr_tiggy

Here are some vids. these are posted earlier on in this thread


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## CAT 245ME

Seeing those videos changed my mind on them for what I wanted to do. 

Nice concept but not very efficient going forward, but are probably designed for a commercial application rather than residential.


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## CityGuy

Does the auger changes directions when changing from forward motion to reverse motion on those Pronovost type blowers? Just curious. Never seen one up close.


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## MogMan

Hamelfire;1714978 said:


> Does the auger changes directions when changing from forward motion to reverse motion on those Pronovost type blowers? Just curious. Never seen one up close.


Auger always spins in the same direction since it's linked to the PTO


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## MogMan

CAT 245ME;1714877 said:


> Seeing those videos changed my mind on them for what I wanted to do.
> 
> Nice concept but not very efficient going forward, but are probably designed for a commercial application rather than residential.


What he said


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## blowerman

Pronovost must have some strong patents on the back drag blades. The normand might work alright on the bi-drive tractor, but even then it looks slow.


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## MogMan

blowerman;1715054 said:


> Pronovost must have some strong patents on the back drag blades. The normand might work alright on the bi-drive tractor, but even then it looks slow.


Slow indeed, probably demo speed. I wonder how much dusting it creates when gunning it. In the vids, it left a cloud of snow in his wake. It looks also like it's marketed has a add-on. Looks practical for specific situations, like a PXPL, but definetly not a substitute for an inverted.


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## CAT 245ME

I've read that the guys running tractors from new like Neige get between 10 to 15 years out of them just using them for snow removal.

But what about the pull blowers? What is the life span of a commercial pull blower and on average how much money do you spend in maintenance?


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## MogMan

I would say a well maintained pronovost or normsnd blower could last you a lifetime.

Maintenance is really low too.

A liter of 80w90 per year
Grease
Sheer pins
Chain tensioner adjustment
Paint
Steel blade 200$, every 2 years
If you go with a Tivar blade, you would have to change it more often, and you have to factor in cutting the bolts with a torch too. (Cc : Neige)

I cant think of anything else



CAT 245ME;1726405 said:


> I've read that the guys running tractors from new like Neige get between 10 to 15 years out of them just using them for snow removal.
> 
> But what about the pull blowers? What is the life span of a commercial pull blower and on average how much money do you spend in maintenance?


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## SDLandscapes VT

Neige told us to count on 7 average seasons per blowers, but they can last longer depending on driveways and operators.


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## Neige

CAT 245ME;1726405 said:


> I've read that the guys running tractors from new like Neige get between 10 to 15 years out of them just using them for snow removal.
> 
> But what about the pull blowers? What is the life span of a commercial pull blower and on average how much money do you spend in maintenance?


I would say 7 years, it will still work after that just we feel you cannot count on it 100%. Also the fan gets worn down so it does not suck the snow in as well, and will throw it less far. For the fun of it, and this is by no means accurate but we came up with a rough number that the blower gets pulled around 150 miles every year.


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## WIPensFan

Neige;1727507 said:


> I would say 7 years, it will still work after that just we feel you cannot count on it 100%. Also the fan gets worn down so it does not suck the snow in as well, and will throw it less far. For the fun of it, and this is by no means accurate but we came up with a rough number that the blower gets pulled around 150 miles every year.


Neige, there is video of a guy on youtube who screws thick rubber pieces on the ends of the fan blades for walk behind 2 stage snow blowers. It gets rid of the gap between the fan housing and the end of the fan blade. Makes them throw farther and not clog with snow as easily. Have you ever tried something like that with your older blowers or any blower for that matter?


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## Neige

No we have never tried that, it is an interesting concept. If everfy you find the vid, post it on here I would love to see it.


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## MogMan

I have come across that vid before, it's probably this one 





I got a couple nasty gaps in one of the blower fan from catching 1) a nut and his bolt 2) piece of rebar and 3) a piece of steel plate. They all got caught between the drum and the fan. That DIY fix could probably help me


Neige;1728309 said:


> No we have never tried that, it is an interesting concept. If everfy you find the vid, post it on here I would love to see it.


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## WIPensFan

MogMan;1728433 said:


> I have come across that vid before, it's probably this one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got a couple nasty gaps in one of the blower fan from catching 1) a nut and his bolt 2) piece of rebar and 3) a piece of steel plate. They all got caught between the drum and the fan. That DIY fix could probably help me


Yep, thats the video.

Also this one shows a impeller enhancement kit at 1:12-1:26 min:


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## SDLandscapes VT

Several videos from today

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153751980175643
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153791171095438

the other tractor had a bit of a mishap--pin fell out of a clutch linkage and the operator lost the clutch as he was backing up to a fence--two sections and a post

miraculously he found the pin so we had some idea what we were looking for as far as a repair. We also found a compatible cotter pin in the onboard "toolbox" and were able to repair the tractor in the drive and send him on his way.


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## fireball

looks like blower insurance will be going up. Someone broke the apple logo glass at the apple store in NYC. News media is saying that it is 750,000 glass panel broken by a snow blower. I can hear it now, Neige I broke a window with the snow blower! I might be running a little behind schedule


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## edgeair

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=575920955824713

Not a very heavy snowfall, nor are the banks high on this place compared to most of our in town driveways. Who says Bobcats can't blow snow... wesport


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## s_aloisio

Been reading this forum for quite a while and finally signed up. Just want to thank every one for all the amazing information in this thread.


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

We made the switch this year. Still fine tuning the blower scraping arm to do a better job. Its amazing how much more efficient the tractor/blower combo is.

http://www.plowsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133323&stc=1&d=1391552888


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## MogMan

Is your rear blade on chains or hydraulics ?

Mine are on hydraulics.

Now that Ive been using the rear blades, I couldnt do without it. Especially useful if you want to push back piles or scrape ruts.



Gr8WhiteNorth;1746747 said:


> We made the switch this year. Still fine tuning the blower scraping arm to do a better job. Its amazing how much more efficient the tractor/blower combo is.
> 
> http://www.plowsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133323&stc=1&d=1391552888


----------



## snoworks1

Well I have been way to busy plowing snow to actually take videos of an event, so sorry in advance.

Residential Plowing Comment

I just wanted to chime in and thank all the people on this thread, after reading it in full, for pushing me over the edge to get a tractor/blower combo! We just go hammered again, with 7" with blowing and drifting along with the roughly 3 feet of snow on the ground prior. After putting in almost 85 hours of seat time I can 100% tell you that this set-up blows away a Jeep with front and rear plows, its really not even close. As soon as you go up in snow totals, the Tractor combo shines. I swear I think I go faster with heavier snowfalls. I have my driveway times under three minutes for the first time ever. This is with a 20+ mile route! Looks like I will be purchasing 2 more for next season.

Again, thanks for this thread!


----------



## hansenslawncare

snoworks1;1747744 said:


> Well I have been way to busy plowing snow to actually take videos of an event, so sorry in advance.
> 
> Residential Plowing Comment
> 
> I just wanted to chime in and thank all the people on this thread, after reading it in full, for pushing me over the edge to get a tractor/blower combo! We just go hammered again, with 7" with blowing and drifting along with the roughly 3 feet of snow on the ground prior. After putting in almost 85 hours of seat time I can 100% tell you that this set-up blows away a Jeep with front and rear plows, its really not even close. As soon as you go up in snow totals, the Tractor combo shines. I swear I think I go faster with heavier snowfalls. I have my driveway times under three minutes for the first time ever. This is with a 20+ mile route! Looks like I will be purchasing 2 more for next season.
> 
> Again, thanks for this thread!


What kind of Tractor/blower set up are you using?


----------



## snoworks1

hansenslawncare;1748051 said:


> What kind of Tractor/blower set up are you using?


I have an M110 with a inverted blower. You can see a video of it a couple of pages back in this thread.


----------



## s_aloisio

just got back from the local kubota dealer, he was pushing the m108s pretty hard saying for winter use people have been having problems with some of the tier 4 emissions stuff in the cold. (my local climate has a lot of -20 to -30c). has anyone that has actually been using the m100/110x been having any issues in the cold?


----------



## snoworks1

s_aloisio;1757595 said:


> just got back from the local kubota dealer, he was pushing the m108s pretty hard saying for winter use people have been having problems with some of the tier 4 emissions stuff in the cold. (my local climate has a lot of -20 to -30c). has anyone that has actually been using the m100/110x been having any issues in the cold?


Yes,

I had a learning experience about a month ago when the machine would not go over 15mph. Since I have never owned a diesel machine before, I never knew the gas can "gel" when it gets cold. Then add to the mix, the bio diesel ratio, in the fuel you use, because the diesel will "gel" easier with a bio mix than not.

To prevent the problem, just add an additive to the fuel, ever time you fill up.


----------



## edgeair

s_aloisio;1757595 said:


> just got back from the local kubota dealer, he was pushing the m108s pretty hard saying for winter use people have been having problems with some of the tier 4 emissions stuff in the cold. (my local climate has a lot of -20 to -30c). has anyone that has actually been using the m100/110x been having any issues in the cold?


Some of the new emissions stuff has been giving troubles on a few makes. EGR specifically. Each unit and brand are a little different but -20c and lower seems to be a problem point


----------



## s_aloisio

edgeair;1757620 said:


> Some of the new emissions stuff has been giving troubles on a few makes. EGR specifically. Each unit and brand are a little different but -20c and lower seems to be a problem point


went in thinking I wanted a m100x, but perhaps the m108s will be a better fit for my area.

The cabs are sure nice in the 100 though lol.


----------



## EliteSnow&Ice

What about moving snow plies? I am thinking of out fitting a tractor with a blower to move piles instead of a loader. Rather than waiting for piles to get out of control, we would manage snow plies in parking lots by blowing them back a couple of time through the season.


----------



## Herm Witte

EliteSnow&Ice;1758462 said:


> What about moving snow plies? I am thinking of out fitting a tractor with a blower to move piles instead of a loader. Rather than waiting for piles to get out of control, we would manage snow plies in parking lots by blowing them back a couple of time through the season.


 Riversedge does that very thing with a double augered Normand. We do it on a small scale with our toolcat with a hi-flow blower.


----------



## EliteSnow&Ice

Herm Witte;1758468 said:


> Riversedge does that very thing with a double augered Normand. We do it on a small scale with our toolcat with a hi-flow blower.


Are they doing River Town Mall with that setup?


----------



## s_aloisio

EliteSnow&Ice;1758462 said:


> What about moving snow plies? I am thinking of out fitting a tractor with a blower to move piles instead of a loader. Rather than waiting for piles to get out of control, we would manage snow plies in parking lots by blowing them back a couple of time through the season.


seen a lot of videos of bobcats with blowers blowing back piles, a blower on the 3 pt is limited by its lift. I think you'd have to plan your piles a lot more with a 3pt tractor blower.


----------



## Herm Witte

EliteSnow&Ice;1758471 said:


> Are they doing River Town Mall with that setup?


No. They are not doing Rivertown this year and it is a mess. D& N is. IMHO it is way out of their capability.


----------



## Gr8WhiteNorth

I have a question about poly or tivar scraping blade vs steel. For the guys with steel- have you ever damaged concrete or paver driveways? I'm getting complaints with the poly blade not scraping to bare concrete. I had to replace a couple of driveways from deep steel scratches from steel skidsteer buckets in the past. Does the 3pt hitch weigh enough for a steel blade to scratch concrete?


----------



## Neige

Herm Witte;1758468 said:


> Riversedge does that very thing with a double augered Normand. We do it on a small scale with our toolcat with a hi-flow blower.


We do it, after all major storms. A PTO powered blower will get rid of tons of snow an hour. Not only will you stack the snow higher, but once its been blown, it has become very compressed leaving you more room to stack the snow. Here is an video that demonstrates this. I know its a huge blower, but the principal is the same.


----------



## Neige

s_aloisio;1757595 said:


> just got back from the local kubota dealer, he was pushing the m108s pretty hard saying for winter use people have been having problems with some of the tier 4 emissions stuff in the cold. (my local climate has a lot of -20 to -30c). has anyone that has actually been using the m100/110x been having any issues in the cold?


I have been hearing issues with the Kubotas and other brands also. What I understand is the the new Tier 4 engines need extreme heat to self clean their filters. (auto regeneration). When its really cold outside they cannot attain a certain heat and the filters clog up and eventual shuts down the machine. I have heard the same problems arising from a few skid steer manufactures also.




Gr8WhiteNorth;1760477 said:


> I have a question about poly or tivar scraping blade vs steel. For the guys with steel- have you ever damaged concrete or paver driveways? I'm getting complaints with the poly blade not scraping to bare concrete. I had to replace a couple of driveways from deep steel scratches from steel skidsteer buckets in the past. Does the 3pt hitch weigh enough for a steel blade to scratch concrete?


We have been running poly cutting edges for some 10 years now. They absolutely do not scrape nearly as well as steel. They also need replacing a few times a year. The metal cutting edge scrapes much better, can scratch but remember its a cutting edge that is just sitting flat, so I cannot see it being able to gouge.


----------



## MogMan

In my case, the only time I scratch pavement with the steel cutting edge, it's when the surface is uneven and when only one of the blower extremity is touching the ground, i.e. left side is higher than the right side for example

Here's pictures of a metal cutting edge after around 500 hours. It's now tapered from 13mm to 7mm



Gr8WhiteNorth;1760477 said:


> I have a question about poly or tivar scraping blade vs steel. For the guys with steel- have you ever damaged concrete or paver driveways? I'm getting complaints with the poly blade not scraping to bare concrete. I had to replace a couple of driveways from deep steel scratches from steel skidsteer buckets in the past. Does the 3pt hitch weigh enough for a steel blade to scratch concrete?


----------



## Gr8WhiteNorth

Here is the photo of the skidsteer version. You can better see the scraper arm and how I have the poly blade cutting edge in the same vertical set up as the tractor inverted blower. This scraper arm is powered hydraulic cylinders, when the tractor is not actually powered cylinders, just resistance of being oil filled. If I changed the tractor to powered hydro cylinders off the blower would it have near the same down pressure as the skidsteer? (Given the 3pt hitch itself doesn't have down pressure)

I would be more apt to adding steel edge if the comparable down pressure was less than the skidsteers.


----------



## merrimacmill

I can confirm issues with the emissions equipment on newer Kubotas (atleast my M7040's) around the 0f to -30f temp range. We rarely, if ever see temps like that, however we have had several events this year during extreme temperatures like that.

Long story short, on my newer units of the line up we had an issue where the crankcase would build pressure, and then blow the oil dipstick out at a pretty good velocity, and lastly would evacuate (under pressure) a very large percentage of the total oil in the machine. We even lost one dipstick on the road when traveling, and had to pull one off of a sitting back up unit. 

So anyways, the mobile mechanic of my dealer came out during the storm and found that the emissions equipment had frozen up, causing pressure build up in the crankcase due to not being able the vent through a filter. He told us that it was one of a number of the same issue he had fixed that week on Kubota engines, so he knew just how to temporarily bypass it all. 

My dealer informed me that Kubota knows they have an issue, but have not formally acknowledged it or offered a fix at this time. It had apparently also frozen up Tackehuchi(?) machines that are equipped with Kubota engines. As it sits today, mine are still bypassed. I was not onsite when he did the repair, so I cannot really comment on what it was he specifically did. However when looking under the hood, I can see a few things that are now different, such as a small tube that exits the turbo being cut and capped off with a bolt clamped in the tube..

My 2009-2011 units seem to be fine and have not yet has these issues. 2012+ has had the issues for me.


----------



## SMLCAT

merrimacmill;1761067 said:


> I can confirm issues with the emissions equipment on newer Kubotas (atleast my M7040's) around the 0f to -30f temp range. We rarely, if ever see temps like that, however we have had several events this year during extreme temperatures like that.
> 
> Long story short, on my newer units of the line up we had an issue where the crankcase would build pressure, and then blow the oil dipstick out at a pretty good velocity, and lastly would evacuate (under pressure) a very large percentage of the total oil in the machine. We even lost one dipstick on the road when traveling, and had to pull one off of a sitting back up unit.
> 
> So anyways, the mobile mechanic of my dealer came out during the storm and found that the emissions equipment had frozen up, causing pressure build up in the crankcase due to not being able the vent through a filter. He told us that it was one of a number of the same issue he had fixed that week on Kubota engines, so he knew just how to temporarily bypass it all.
> 
> My dealer informed me that Kubota knows they have an issue, but have not formally acknowledged it or offered a fix at this time. It had apparently also frozen up Tackehuchi(?) machines that are equipped with Kubota engines. As it sits today, mine are still bypassed. I was not onsite when he did the repair, so I cannot really comment on what it was he specifically did. However when looking under the hood, I can see a few things that are now different, such as a small tube that exits the turbo being cut and capped off with a bolt clamped in the tube..
> 
> My 2009-2011 units seem to be fine and have not yet has these issues. 2012+ has had the issues for me.


That's interesting considering that CAT has gone to Kubota engines most of their skid steers.
I'm wondering would putting some sort of blanket over the hood/ radiator help keep the heat in the engine bay. Sort of what big rigs do in front of their radiators in very cold weather...


----------



## MogMan

Gr8WhiteNorth;1760794 said:


> Which cutting edge are you talking about? The one on the blower or the one on the scraper arm?...


I was talking about the cutting edge that sit under the blower. I used a piece of 2by to simulate an uneven surface. The edge of the cutting edge to the far right would be doing the scratching in that particular case.

For the back blade, I couldn't do anything much without the hydraulic cylinders. I like to drop the blower to the ground, lower the back blade until it raises the blower and then I just scrape away, going forward or reversing. Reversing works pretty great for evening ruts out.

It should be noted that my contracts do state that I'm not responsible for scratching the customers asphalt driveway. I make sure to mention it to them over the phone, in an email and with a clause in the contract at the beginning of the season.


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## MogMan

A vid I did today, in a really narrow alley.

Lost a few good mirrors there this season

Snow removal in a narrow alley, New Holland T6030 & Pronovost P920-IV inverted blower


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## s_aloisio

merrimacmill;1761067 said:


> I can confirm issues with the emissions equipment on newer Kubotas (atleast my M7040's) around the 0f to -30f temp range. We rarely, if ever see temps like that, however we have had several events this year during extreme temperatures like that.
> 
> Long story short, on my newer units of the line up we had an issue where the crankcase would build pressure, and then blow the oil dipstick out at a pretty good velocity, and lastly would evacuate (under pressure) a very large percentage of the total oil in the machine. We even lost one dipstick on the road when traveling, and had to pull one off of a sitting back up unit.
> 
> So anyways, the mobile mechanic of my dealer came out during the storm and found that the emissions equipment had frozen up, causing pressure build up in the crankcase due to not being able the vent through a filter. He told us that it was one of a number of the same issue he had fixed that week on Kubota engines, so he knew just how to temporarily bypass it all.
> 
> My dealer informed me that Kubota knows they have an issue, but have not formally acknowledged it or offered a fix at this time. It had apparently also frozen up Tackehuchi(?) machines that are equipped with Kubota engines. As it sits today, mine are still bypassed. I was not onsite when he did the repair, so I cannot really comment on what it was he specifically did. However when looking under the hood, I can see a few things that are now different, such as a small tube that exits the turbo being cut and capped off with a bolt clamped in the tube..
> 
> My 2009-2011 units seem to be fine and have not yet has these issues. 2012+ has had the issues for me.


are the units having problems tier 4 emissions? or are some still tier 3?


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## merrimacmill

s_aloisio;1761602 said:


> are the units having problems tier 4 emissions? or are some still tier 3?


I'm not totally sure, let me check and follow up on that. They are 2012 or newer, and the 2012 in particular we have had other unrelated issues with for some reason. Mostly charging related - it is on its second alternator and battery of the season.


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

Here is our latest video! Good footage of blowers in action


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## WIPensFan

Gr8WhiteNorth;1764150 said:


> Here is our latest video! Good footage of blowers in action


Cool! Love that video. You should put some side plates on your pull back bar on the skid blower. That way you don't have those annoying trail off snow lines.


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## Mark13

Nice video! 

Do you have much worry about leaving all the run off trails behind?


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## blowerman

CAT 245ME;1726405 said:


> I've read that the guys running tractors from new like Neige get between 10 to 15 years out of them just using them for snow removal.
> 
> But what about the pull blowers? What is the life span of a commercial pull blower and on average how much money do you spend in maintenance?


I've spent almost nothing on my normand.. As posted; a few bolts, edge etc.
This year we hooked a man hole cover that made its way into the impeller.
Bend up a blade (2) real bad. I torched it to finish out the season. Steve told me the new impeller should be about ? $$$ 
Still cheaper and better than plows or buckets.


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## PTSolutions

After two relatively light winters, the tractor/blower combo has proved absolutely INVALUABLE this year! We had a few storms were the plows were worthless on the driveways and the piles were so big due to not melting away that we had nowhere to pile any snow.

The machine is effortless even in 12" of snow.

I'm looking at a 2013 kubota m126 with about 200hrs on it (full warranty still available) with loader for about 68k to add to the fleet for next winter.


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## excav8ter

ProTouchGrounds;1773512 said:


> After two relatively light winters, the tractor/blower combo has proved absolutely INVALUABLE this year! We had a few storms were the plows were worthless on the driveways and the piles were so big due to not melting away that we had nowhere to pile any snow.
> 
> The machine is effortless even in 12" of snow.
> 
> I'm looking at a 2013 kubota m126 with about 200hrs on it (full warranty still available) with loader for about 68k to add to the fleet for next winter.


I hear you there! We have had over 140" this year.... closer to 145" I believe. We could not have ordered a better first winter for a tractor/blower. We plan to add another tractor next year. Hopefully.....
A few guys thought we were nuts to do this, but as ProTouchGrounds said, 12" of snow on a driveway is nothing for the Normand 92-280 behind our New Holland TL100A.
Below is a driveway that had not been touched for a month, snow had to be nearly 40" deep at the street and 20" deep up to the house. The guy he hired gave up... even with his V blade.


----------



## gene gls

excav8ter;1773875 said:


> I hear you there! We have had over 140" this year.... closer to 145" I believe. We could not have ordered a better first winter for a tractor/blower. We plan to add another tractor next year. Hopefully.....
> A few guys thought we were nuts to do this, but as ProTouchGrounds said, 12" of snow on a driveway is nothing for the Normand 92-280 behind our New Holland TL100A.
> Below is a driveway that had not been touched for a month, snow had to be nearly 40" deep at the street and 20" deep up to the house. The guy he hired gave up... even with his V blade.


Nice clean looking job. What's a driveway like that worth in your area with a blower with that much snow?


----------



## excav8ter

gene gls;1773889 said:


> Nice clean looking job. What's a driveway like that worth in your area with a blower with that much snow?


Thanks Gene.... at the risk of turning the "switching to Blowing" thread into a "lowballers" thread, I will pm you the specifics.....


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## 06radoCT

First off would like to thank blowerman for pointin me to this thread.

After many nights of watching countless YT video's and was all set to seriously start looking for a tractor/blower. I was hoping a smaller tractor like a JD 4720 or L5460 with a 74"blower would translate into longer times. 

But after reading all this helpful info and from Picasso's post and from what everyone on here is running I would consider "big" tractors. This no longer seems feasible as to the points Picasso pointed out. I was hoping others would of chimed in on the "smaller" tractors and posted video. 

Im sorry I don't remember the name but someone posted a video with a tractor of 55 hp @ the pto I believe but the tractor still looks "big" to me.
Video was blowing the windrow back to a fence. 

The reason I was looking at compact tractors is because a lot of resi's around here have trees/bushes over hanging the drive's and something tall would do more damage going in. Especially on the wet snow or ice events there's times where the branches are bouncing of the windshield of the truck (F 250 and a Colorado for the tight ones). 


So I was willing to trade some time for something not as tall, but after reading this entire thread it just doesn't seem possible to do with a compact utility. So it seems either you have to get a "big" tractor or not do it at all or find ones that have open drives. 

Open drives means you cant have a tight group. But right now just don't have the $$$ for something in the 80-100 hp range with low hours and if I do its 2000 or more miles away. 

1) Have any of you started with something like the 4720 or 5460 and gone up from there? 

2) If you did start there did you find it wasn't worth it but suffered 1 year and just got something bigger next year?

3) Or is it just a complete waste of time even looking at something that size?

P.s. sorry for the long post im just at a point where all the time ive spent researching has kind of been all for not. Thanks in advance for any info anyone can shed on this.


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## excav8ter

As a first year convert to the tractor/blower scene, I can tell you that I am VERY glad I went with a 100hp tractor, with a 92" Normand. I had to use a 50 hp tractor with a 72" inverted blower by Meteor. It did a decent job, but painfully slow. I tell people that call me to do their drives that they need to have nothing overhanging the drive that is less than 10' off the ground. Basket ball hoops need to be raised out of the way too. I carry a lopper to trim branches at a few places. 
Plowsite member Image had some 55hp Massey tractors with inverted blowers. 
A smaller compact tractor may work ok if your route is very tightly grouped. But I would be looking at something larger.

P.M. me when you can... I have tractor info for you...


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## 06radoCT

Cant find a way to edit my post so have a few more questions.

1) Still using a compact tractor is it the weight/traction issue? 

2) Is it the Hp range of those tractors and the time wasted compared to the bigger tractors. (most storms around here average 3"-9") we have gotten some big storms in the past couple of years a 30+ and a couple of 20+

3) Sorry i know this is off topic but, If a utility tractor blower isn't a option would you still use it to push snow. Neige posted a 4720 with a metal pless. and rear blower.

Again thanks for any replies in advance I have to go to work.


----------



## blowerman

Small will work.. Image has the smaller deeres with normands on them. As far as performance, he'll need to answer that.
Branches were a minor issue in older developments. I simply took a pole chain saw and trimmed off low parts. 
The customer was notified first!!


----------



## excav8ter

blowerman;1780399 said:


> Small will work.. Image has the smaller deeres with normands on them. As far as performance, he'll need to answer that.
> Branches were a minor issue in older developments. I simply took a pole chain saw and trimmed off low parts.
> The customer was notified first!!


I am sure Steve (Image) will let you know how his set up works. I already know.  
Perhaps he has sold the Massey tractors and gone all Deere. But I do know he posted a video or 2 of a 55hp (or close to it) Massey pulling an 84" inverted. You can find him on YouTube.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

There is also someone the neige has shown pictures of using L series Kubotas and perhaps the 82" blowers. We have two tractors a 5 series and a 6 series John Deere--both have their pros and cons. THe 5 series would be my preference but maybe more like a 5115M or a 5101--more horsepower in a smaller frame. The 6 series road speed is nice, but with density not really an issue.


----------



## blowerman

While it's rare I have to run machines anymore, this Monday we had a morning dusting forecast that dropped 3" plus so I jumped in the kubota m100x and ran a 28 drive route..
(I've posted some of this before, but to save 60 pages I'll share again)

Starts and runs excellent. Great fuel economy.
Comfortable cab. Rear window defroster, so minimal to no fogging.
Seat turns to the right, this helps with the constant looking back at blower.
Tractor is a good size to drive through most conditions. HP is strong enough to chew up all snow events and piles we've used it on.
You never see a thread "pic of my blower tractor stuck." Just doesn't happen, unless you drop into a ditch and even then you probably will just drive out.
Good tractors hold value better than trucks.
Buy a quality blower unit, mainly Normand or Pronovost and with basic maintenance you will get many years out of them. 

On Mondays snow, my right arm never left the arm rest. The blower shoot and deflector were set so they didn't need moving at all. I'd back up drives in 3 or 4 high range and blow forward in 2 or 3.... Gear changes were the push of a button on the armrest. The three point is also a simple rocket switch in the arm rest. Tap it when you are in the street it goes up, close to garage tap again. 
The pto is clutch less, so the few L shaped drives, turn off pto, pull snow out until clear and turn the dial. 

When it comes to price, crazy is $40-50k plus on trucks or skiddys...


----------



## BlownAway

06radoCT;1780392 said:


> Cant find a way to edit my post so have a few more questions.
> 
> 1) Still using a compact tractor is it the weight/traction issue?
> 
> 2) Is it the Hp range of those tractors and the time wasted compared to the bigger tractors. (most storms around here average 3"-9") we have gotten some big storms in the past couple of years a 30+ and a couple of 20+
> 
> 3) Sorry i know this is off topic but, If a utility tractor blower isn't a option would you still use it to push snow. Neige posted a 4720 with a metal pless. and rear blower.
> 
> Again thanks for any replies in advance I have to go to work.


I've run a Kubota L48 with a Pronovost P800 (80") blower for years, mostly on condo driveways. Power is not really the issue, weight is. As long as the driveways are relatively flat, the machine has no issues, but if you need to go uphill it can be a challenge. It ran right through the 36" storm last year where a skid blower would do nothing. I've run an 8' Kage on it, but again, it's a little light for the pusher. Road speed, as many others have said, is a concern if you have to travel between accounts. As far as reliability, I have never had a single issue with either the tractor or blower other than an occasional shear bolt, and it's seen literally thousands of driveways and many hours blowing piles.


----------



## alcs

I started with a John deere 3720 . Was able to do over 100 driveways in 4 hours.
I now have a 5740 Kubota does 150 driveways in 4 hours and a m108x Kubota 200 driveways 5 hours

The small tractors I found were GREAT for residential , as long as the route is tight.
The m108x could do more , but the route is not so tight as the h5740
The m108x has a PXPL
the h5740 has a Scrapper in front( expands to 8 or 9 ft) with a 72" pronovost in the rear. Very fast.
I would recomend compact tractor as long as there is not a lot of travelling between driveways.
tymusic


----------



## CCL Landscaping

I've started to read the entire thread. On page 12. Lots of great info. Thanks guys


----------



## 06radoCT

excav8ter;1780403 said:


> I am sure Steve (Image) will let you know how his set up works. I already know.
> Perhaps he has sold the Massey tractors and gone all Deere. But I do know he posted a video or 2 of a 55hp (or close to it) Massey pulling an 84" inverted. You can find him on YouTube.


I have seen that one and said in my post that it still looked big to me meaning not as small as the 4720 of 5460. I could be wrong ive been stay up late for the past few nights reading this thread from start to finish and watching the video's posted as well.


----------



## 06radoCT

alcs you wouldn't have any video of 3720 or 5740? I only videos I can find are either JD sub compact or Kubota bx series. And the few 4720's ive found they are fel blower's clearing side walks.


----------



## ry_rock

I start with and still have a Kubota L3540 with a 68 inverted blower on the back. This is my 3rd year with it. IMO it is an awesome set up, I currently have 2 small parking lots the rest is resi drives.

I am sure a larger tractor would have a higher ground speed, but I have suffered through this.

I am sure a little more pto hp would be nice on the heavy wet snow, but most drives take 2-5 min on a normal snow so 3-7 min for heavy snow is still pretty reasonable in my opinion.

I am thinking about a larger tractor in the 100 hp range...but I will still likely keep the L3540 and use it as well.

Feel free to ask any question I would be glad to help out....and best of luck!!


----------



## CAT 245ME

blowerman;1780450 said:


> While it's rare I have to run machines anymore, this Monday we had a morning dusting forecast that dropped 3" plus so I jumped in the kubota m100x and ran a 28 drive route..
> (I've posted some of this before, but to save 60 pages I'll share again)
> 
> Starts and runs excellent. Great fuel economy.
> Comfortable cab. Rear window defroster, so minimal to no fogging.
> Seat turns to the right, this helps with the constant looking back at blower.
> Tractor is a good size to drive through most conditions. HP is strong enough to chew up all snow events and piles we've used it on.
> You never see a thread "pic of my blower tractor stuck." Just doesn't happen, unless you drop into a ditch and even then you probably will just drive out.
> Good tractors hold value better than trucks.
> Buy a quality blower unit, mainly Normand or Pronovost and with basic maintenance you will get many years out of them.
> 
> On Mondays snow, my right arm never left the arm rest. The blower shoot and deflector were set so they didn't need moving at all. I'd back up drives in 3 or 4 high range and blow forward in 2 or 3.... Gear changes were the push of a button on the armrest. The three point is also a simple rocket switch in the arm rest. Tap it when you are in the street it goes up, close to garage tap again.
> The pto is clutch less, so the few L shaped drives, turn off pto, pull snow out until clear and turn the dial.
> 
> When it comes to price, crazy is $40-50k plus on trucks or skiddys...


I agree with the cost on purchasing trucks & plows, as time goes on, the more I don't want to use trucks. I still keep thinking of a 100hp tractor but my biggest fear is with only having one machine, sooner or later there will be a break down and trying to service 150 properties with a truck and plow isn't gonna cut it.

I was checking out a 2012 Kubota 110X, I found the layout of the tractor very operator friendly.

Even though I fear down time even with a new machine, I still want to try it.


----------



## 06radoCT

im in the same boat cat 245me but im still gonna give it some more thought.


----------



## alcs

06radoCT

I have sold the John deere two years ago , traded up the the Kubota 5740.
Double my horsepower and gave my driver a machine to do his driveways faster, (also added a few extra driveways to his run).Since it takes him under 2 minutes averageto clear a driveway including travelling time, i would not hesitate to suggest this equipment if you want to optimize your residential run and as long as they are not to far apart.
I do not have any videos of any equipment i am running, but i am very impressed with the Kubota equipment during the past 2 years since i have switched over from John deere.
tymusic


----------



## 06radoCT

thank you for the info alcs, I have a question for you and everyone else that uses the bigger tractors.

Do you do any drives that have privacy bushes on either side of the drive that extend for some distance? If so how do you tackle drives like this?

Here is a example of what im talking about
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qwx4c28xw2bq&lvl=19.52&dir=357.48&sty=b&form=LMLTCC


----------



## newhere

Just tuck the Shute to blow back into the blower and pull it all out to the end. You would be surprised at the amount of snow that it can pull with the blower full, the Shute full and a full band in the air all cycling. 

That's your only choice other then blowing it over top of the bushes.



On the same note has anyone had problems with operators or yourselves damaging plant material/trees from the snow discharge?


----------



## snoworks1

On the same note has anyone had problems with operators or yourselves damaging plant material/trees from the snow discharge?[/QUOTE]

You have to be careful with the snow discharge for sure. We have damaged some lamp post lights as well as a couple of mail boxes. Once you get used to operating a couple of controls at once, it's easily avoidable.

I have not seen damage to shrubs/bushes yet, but I would think you would have to be throwing an awful lot of snow in the same area/section to do damage.

Chuck B.


----------



## Neige

Yes you can absolutely damage evergreen trees. Do not blow snow into spruce, pin, cedar, you will cause damage when you blow directly into these trees.
Light post are another no no. So is blowing snow on fire hydrants, and sidewalks.
Have your employee shovel out a fire hydrant or clean up a filled in sidewalk and they will not do it again.


----------



## newhere

I did knock one mailbox right off the post but it was old. I hit a few arbs with the discharge for a split second and it didn't do any real damage just kind of ruffled up and stripped a little foliage on them. Home owner was bent out of shape so I stopped doing his drive on large snow falls because he wants all the snow on a 20k sq ft drive put in one ten foot opening. I cleared 3-4' of snow off the drive and ruffled 3 bushes so now I need to pay. Doesn't sit well with me.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

we have two such driveways:

the first has a tall cedar hedge and we put the blower chute pointing down and blow the snow underneath the trees.

The second has a small deciduous hedge (korean lilacs I believe) and we raise the chute and blow over.

You can drag a ton of snow with the blower off so that is always an option as the others have mentioned. 

We have broken our share of things though this season--most notably the guys blew my mailbox off the post.


----------



## CAT420DITPLOWER

Just to chime in on the smaller tractor talk. I very successfully use a smaller tractor. Its 55hp 48PTO with a normand 82-260INV on the back. I love how it has the ability to get in nice and tight wherever i need it, and it turns super tight.

Cons: 
ground speed, but it still does 29kmh so its not bad for in town routes, if i can continue to tighten my route over years, it will be that much better.

Manual gear shifting as opposed to come larger tractors having push button, gets a little bit tiriing after a big storm.

Cab, depending on the tractor can be a little more cramped that larger tractor.

I'm going to buy a kubota L6060 for next season to help eliminate some issues...Hyrdro I feel will make up some lost travel time by speeding up time per laneway, and it stil does 29kmh. The new Kubota cabs are pretty slick also for features and comfort. Its got 54PTO which I feel is lots for my blower, as I'm getting by fine with 48PTO now. I can pull a full box out of a lane now and hit the PTO at the street and it eats it up. It'll bog a bit depending on moisture, but it doesnt plug, and in a 2-3 seconds its gone. 

I'm a firm believer in knowing what you have and how to work it....I have run some larger 70-90Hp tractors with inverted blowers before when helping out other guys, and its a little more challenging, because I'm used to the manuverability of mine. Put the guy driving the big one in mine, and he takes a whole route to figure out where to keep the RPM and when the right time is to hit the PTO on. 

Know what you got and how to run it is whats this is all about, and playing to the situation...if you have larger lanes spread out, go for roadspeed. If your typical lanes are 4 car drives, in semi close areas, stay smalll and go hydro. Also know what size blower to run...Normand says my 82" should be 40-60Hp, I use is successfully at 48HP, but I'm smart enough to stay away from a 92" with what I have. 

Hope thise helps in some way, any other questions holler...everyone starts somewhere.


----------



## hansenslawncare

CAT420DITPLOWER;1784763 said:


> Just to chime in on the smaller tractor talk. I very successfully use a smaller tractor. Its 55hp 48PTO with a normand 82-260INV on the back. I love how it has the ability to get in nice and tight wherever i need it, and it turns super tight.
> 
> Cons:
> ground speed, but it still does 29kmh so its not bad for in town routes, if i can continue to tighten my route over years, it will be that much better.
> 
> Manual gear shifting as opposed to come larger tractors having push button, gets a little bit tiriing after a big storm.
> 
> Cab, depending on the tractor can be a little more cramped that larger tractor.
> 
> I'm going to buy a kubota L6060 for next season to help eliminate some issues...Hyrdro I feel will make up some lost travel time by speeding up time per laneway, and it stil does 29kmh. The new Kubota cabs are pretty slick also for features and comfort. Its got 54PTO which I feel is lots for my blower, as I'm getting by fine with 48PTO now. I can pull a full box out of a lane now and hit the PTO at the street and it eats it up. It'll bog a bit depending on moisture, but it doesnt plug, and in a 2-3 seconds its gone.
> 
> I'm a firm believer in knowing what you have and how to work it....I have run some larger 70-90Hp tractors with inverted blowers before when helping out other guys, and its a little more challenging, because I'm used to the manuverability of mine. Put the guy driving the big one in mine, and he takes a whole route to figure out where to keep the RPM and when the right time is to hit the PTO on.
> 
> Know what you got and how to run it is whats this is all about, and playing to the situation...if you have larger lanes spread out, go for roadspeed. If your typical lanes are 4 car drives, in semi close areas, stay smalll and go hydro. Also know what size blower to run...Normand says my 82" should be 40-60Hp, I use is successfully at 48HP, but I'm smart enough to stay away from a 92" with what I have.
> 
> Hope thise helps in some way, any other questions holler...everyone starts somewhere.


Do you have any pics/vids of your setup? I'd love to see them.

Thank you!


----------



## newhere

I have a video of my 4720 a customer took. Just can't figure out how to send it to me. Should get it figured out soon. Tractor was blowing 12-36" of snow pretty effortlessly. Broke a shear bolt on the first drive and I didn't have any so I had to fix it in the hardware store parking lot. 
With the amount of snow we had I had to slow down a bit to let it catch up at times when I belt the tractor lugging from the weight. If I kept going the blower wouldn't clog but the machine would loose traction and spin out. 
I'm looking forward to seeing the video myself!


----------



## hansenslawncare

newhere;1784989 said:


> I have a video of my 4720 a customer took. Just can't figure out how to send it to me. Should get it figured out soon. Tractor was blowing 12-36" of snow pretty effortlessly. Broke a shear bolt on the first drive and I didn't have any so I had to fix it in the hardware store parking lot.
> With the amount of snow we had I had to slow down a bit to let it catch up at times when I belt the tractor lugging from the weight. If I kept going the blower wouldn't clog but the machine would loose traction and spin out.
> I'm looking forward to seeing the video myself!


Yeah! Looking forward to seeing that.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Really late to the party but thinking ahead to next season


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## excav8ter

SDLandscapes VT;1787257 said:


> Really late to the party but thinking ahead to next season


Nicely done!


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## 4wydnr

SDLandscapes VT;1787257 said:


> Really late to the party but thinking ahead to next season


Top Notch!


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## MogMan

SDLandscapes VT;1787257 said:


> Really late to the party but thinking ahead to next season


Great vid !


----------



## hansenslawncare

Awesome video sir! I might have to mimic your video a little bit in the future. Don't worry, I'm far away from you...lol

Really one of the best videos I've seen. Very professional!


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## SDLandscapes VT

@hansenslawncare go for it. I lived for a time in the twin cities while I attended the U good luck to you sir


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## MogMan

#Protip

Always check to make sure your PTO shaft takes grease like it should and that the articulated joint doesn't have play in it.

Otherwise, it breaks in an alley at 2am, in the middle of the storm, and then you have to get the dealership opened just for you to buy a new shaft. Overall, you lose 3 hours.


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## Neige

SDLandscapes VT;1787257 said:


> Really late to the party but thinking ahead to next season


:salute: Hands down thats one of the best videos I have seen describing the essence of snow blowing service. Congratulations.


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## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;1787669 said:


> @hansenslawncare go for it. I lived for a time in the twin cities while I attended the U good luck to you sir


Thank you! Keep us posted if you take any more videos.


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## 06radoCT

newhere;1784989 said:


> I have a video of my 4720 a customer took. Just can't figure out how to send it to me.


Any news on the video?


----------



## velocicaur

Interested in the video too. Uploading it to youtube would probably be the easiest. You'll have to make an account and go from there.


----------



## velocicaur

I found this while looking at some other videos.

Would there be any performance difference with an inverted blower running the same setup?


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## MogMan

You do have to factor-in the fact that there's a dog in the cab. Same tractor, same dog but with an inverted would work great I think. I'm a big fan of Drag'n Blow



velocicaur;1792427 said:


> I found this while looking at some other videos.
> 
> Would there be any performance difference with an inverted blower running the same setup?


----------



## CCL Landscaping

merrimacmill;1762310 said:


> I'm not totally sure, let me check and follow up on that. They are 2012 or newer, and the 2012 in particular we have had other unrelated issues with for some reason. Mostly charging related - it is on its second alternator and battery of the season.


Hey merrimac, what kind of setup are you running on those tractors?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

So we had put away the blowers and tractors and washed and serviced everything....and then we get a call today, 53 degrees and sunny

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=748815828491603&set=vb.647074865332367&type=2&theater

Cleared out an entire soccer field for a rugby match. 53 degrees, 3"-12" of snow--some from drifts. Couldn't have done this any other way.


----------



## MogMan

No damage caused to the turf by the tractor's tires ?


SDLandscapes VT;1798377 said:


> So we had put away the blowers and tractors and washed and serviced everything....and then we get a call today, 53 degrees and sunny
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=748815828491603&set=vb.647074865332367&type=2&theater
> 
> Cleared out an entire soccer field for a rugby match. 53 degrees, 3"-12" of snow--some from drifts. Couldn't have done this any other way.


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## SDLandscapes VT

no damage except a few spots that the blower leveled....nothing that won't grow in once things get moving, almost nothing at all. Ground was surprisingly firm--psi from tractor surprisingly low


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## SDLandscapes VT

@newhere--is that 4720 video up somewhere, I really would like to see that


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## Neige

Thats pretty cool, we rent two tractors every spring to a private golf course. They use them to blow the snow off all the greens and tee's. Thanks for sharing, that blower was sure blowing the snow far.


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## hansenslawncare

*Ag Tractor/Blowing 1" of snow*

This may be a dumb question; but do the Ag/Blower setups scrape enough to scoop and blow 1" snowfalls?


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## SDLandscapes VT

@hansens---they scrape sort of--depends on the quality of the pavement you are scraping


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## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;1800622 said:


> @hansens---they scrape sort of--depends on the quality of the pavement you are scraping


Thank you for the quick answer; that makes sense. Beyond scraping; will it throw snow decent enough on 30' driveways at only 1" of snow? I know they more that's funneling into the system; the snow pushes itself up and through the chute; but 1" snow falls?


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## SDLandscapes VT

we wouldn't turn on the blower till we were in the street and had the furrow too


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## CAT 245ME

SDLandscapes VT;1800724 said:


> we wouldn't turn on the blower till we were in the street and had the furrow too


SD how long have you been offering this type of service to your area? 
When you first started, were you the first one to try it or was there already someone else offering this type of service?


----------



## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;1800724 said:


> we wouldn't turn on the blower till we were in the street and had the furrow too


Roger that; thank you sir!


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## SDLandscapes VT

Cat 245--first season 2013-2014 for the blower service


----------



## ehlingerlawn.co

Nice job on the video!


----------



## hansenslawncare

Neige;1243430 said:


> I think these are great questions. Our driveway signs with our name and phone is proving to be the best way to attract new clients. Give your clients a quality service at a reasonable price and they decide they just don't want to shovel. Our biggest growth spurts have been buying up the competition we have done that 3 times now. ( By the way all these guys that have sold have come to us and asked if we were interested in buying them. Not one of them did we force them to get out, they were all just tired of the hours and the difficulties of running a snow company.The other was when a lowballer came into town and priced everything 50% less than us. We lost maybe 5 % of our clients but the guy picked up 300 new clients in my area. Well the first big storm we get and he is a no show. All these people decided they were not shoveling and we got around 225 of them. Called up our local tractor dealer, bought a new tractor and blower and away we went. If you are really interested I did a webinar for SIMA last spring that goes into great detail on how we run our snow company. I have been told its very informative. http://webinars.sima.org/session.php?id=3904
> I believe anyone who is thinking of starting residential with a tractor / blower in a market where no one else has this system in place is going to do very well.


Hey Paul do you have this webinar still available?


----------



## Neige

Hey Richard I am sure SIMA still has that webinar available. Feel free to give
Me a call and I will spend the time needed to explain and answer all your questions Steve from Fargo Snow is the stocking distributor in your area. He is also another great resource for how to succeed in building up a snow blowing company
Paul 514 608 4675


----------



## hansenslawncare

Neige;1815207 said:


> Hey Richard I am sure SIMA still has that webinar available. Feel free to give
> Me a call and I will spend the time needed to explain and answer all your questions Steve from Fargo Snow is the stocking distributor in your area. He is also another great resource for how to succeed in building up a snow blowing company
> Paul 514 608 4675


Thanks Paul, I appreciate the input; I'll look into SIMA and I'm sure I'll give you a call again in the near future.


----------



## NLS1

snoworks1;1687566 said:


> Picasso,
> 
> I have a Kubota M110 that is super fast and nimble. I can make 90 deg. turns(side loaded garages) way better than a Jeep wrangler with front and rear plows set up. I have used this tractor twice and I can tell you that it blows away my previous favorite Jeep set-up. I think its a size issue.
> 
> Some other comments:
> 
> -I could not believe how well our Normand scraped down to pavement. Yes you have some driveways that are not perfect, so you can't expect great results on those, but a blade and or rear plow will have the same issues.
> -My first time out I hit 4.5 minutes a driveway, that was with 2 hours of really slow driving. I still have not mastered it yet, but I feel that I can work my way down to 2.5 to 3 minutes with no problems.
> -U-Edge seems to be wearing a little to fast for my liking.
> -I have yet to find a good use for the hyd. rear blade as it does not make sense to use it in conjunction with the 3 point hitch. I just set it flush with the blower and leave it alone.
> -Glare off of the blower is bad at times. I think rear light placement is crucial.
> -I still have to get used to what settings keep the cab from fogging up bad. Worst case senerio, keep a couple of rags handy to wipe down the inside of the cab from time to time.
> -Don't hit a low lying tree branch.
> -Don't hit a low lying tree branch.
> -I had to order front weights, even my big machine needs them.


I like this quote. I know what ya mean about needing front weight. My M135 with the Shoule would pop the front wheels off the ground on dry pavement if I power shifted without the plow. That surprised me the first time.

One of the blinkers on the cab post broke from a tree branch. Easy fix.

Oh and don't forget to check your wheel bolts if you have the power adjust rear wheels. Whoever installed mine put the bolts through the wrong way and one of the wheels came loose first day out. $600 for a new set of parts and a $1000 tow with a wrecker and a second truck to lift the filled rear wheel! Fun times.

After a couple of events I was easily down to 1-2 minutes for each driveway on average. More time driving than blowing for sure on my route I had. 25 drives in an hour and that included way too much driving.

The tractor was the most nimble plowing tool I ever used, that is unless you need to spin 180* like a skid steer. The overspeed turning was awesome. I could turn that big tractor with blower and plow around in a residential street with room to spare no problem.

Steve and Paul are both super great guys too by the way for anyone interested in the inverted blower setup.

Dan


----------



## NLS1

*Snow on the brain*

Hey can ya tell I have snow on the brain? Not even August yet! Hehe :laughing:


----------



## CAT 245ME

NLS1;1817356 said:


> Hey can ya tell I have snow on the brain? Not even August yet! Hehe :laughing:


Well if ya want to be successful, now is the time to get at it.


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

If I'm reading this right ? I see some guys are blowing driveways for $300-$400 per yer ? That's $15-$20 per event ! Why would you work so cheap ? Does that include walks ? I just don't see where the money is ? 18-24 hr days ? Just asking. Thanks, Wade


----------



## MogMan

If you spend 60 seconds per driveway and you do it 15 times in a season, that's still only 15min per season i.e 1200-1600$ per hour worked there. Not too cheap.

Also, no walkways either



IDOCTORTREES;1818880 said:


> If I'm reading this right ? I see some guys are blowing driveways for $300-$400 per yer ? That's $15-$20 per event ! Why would you work so cheap ? Does that include walks ? I just don't see where the money is ? 18-24 hr days ? Just asking. Thanks, Wade


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

*Seasonal blowing*

$350 per season

70 visits (worse case scenario) @ 1 minute per = $5 per minute

60 drives per hour = $300 per hour
40 drives per hour = $200 per hour

Still not enough money?


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

Because you made the investment in your equipment and now your faster than a guy with a push blower or shovel . Your going to lower your price per trip ? It should still have the value at the end..if we get $25 for your drive with our trucks per visit. Why would we lower the price so we can do more work for the same amount of $$$.


----------



## cet

IDOCTORTREES;1818975 said:


> Because you made the investment in your equipment and now your faster than a guy with a push blower or shovel . Your going to lower your price per trip ? It should still have the value at the end..if we get $25 for your drive with our trucks per visit. Why would we lower the price so we can do more work for the same amount of $$$.


I believe it all has to do with the market these guys are in. In my area no one would pay per visit. Going rate is $400/season with no walks. We plow on average 14-18 times/year and then you need to come back for the street plow. That's what it has come to if you want to do driveways here. Maybe that's why I don't do any.

If a guy with a 50k setup can do 50k/winter and keeps the tractor 10 years I would say he is doing very well. Tractors don't work everywhere but where they do the seasonal price seems to be even lower, maybe because they are so efficient.


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

SDLandscapes VT;1818918 said:


> $350 per season
> 
> 70 visits (worse case scenario) @ 1 minute per = $5 per minute
> 
> 60 drives per hour = $300 per hour
> 40 drives per hour = $200 per hour
> 
> Still not enough money?


8 drives per hr snow blower 1 man $25 per drive per visit $200pr hr Low overhead better return. Ie. fuel,maintenance,insurance.

Why not keep the rate. Use a tractor and blower do more drives ?


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## IDOCTORTREES

cet;1819006 said:


> I believe it all has to do with the market these guys are in. In my area no one would pay per visit. Going rate is $400/season with no walks. We plow on average 14-18 times/year and then you need to come back for the street plow. That's what it has come to if you want to do driveways here. Maybe that's why I don't do any.
> 
> If a guy with a 50k setup can do 50k/winter and keeps the tractor 10 years I would say he is doing very well. Tractors don't work everywhere but where they do the seasonal price seems to be even lower, maybe because they are so efficient.


It's all per trip here. Thanks for your help helps me understand our markets are not the same. :salute:


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## SDLandscapes VT

*Seasonal vs. per push*

Wade

What covers your overhead on a short snow season? I m a huge fan or seasonal contracts or retainer + per push. With the overhead/investment/risk involved in this business the client should be responsible for the setup to service their property snow or no.

The seasonal fixes their budget--they win. It gets me money up front, and covers all my overhead and expenses--I win. You win at contracts with operator skill and technological advantage. Once you go tractor blower you will wonder why you ever back-dragged a driveway ever.

The hourly at the end of the day is pretty sweet too.


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## IDOCTORTREES

No snow-- No dough ! One very Big game of poker. We sit between two major down hill ski resorts and a economy driven by winter activates ..


----------



## snowman8120

Hey Mogman (or anyone elve with them) what is the verdict on the Nokian tires? Been looking at a set for my 110 but wondering if they are worth the price. Tia.


----------



## MogMan

snowman8120;1819833 said:


> Hey Mogman (or anyone elve with them) what is the verdict on the Nokian tires? Been looking at a set for my 110 but wondering if they are worth the price. Tia.


Way better than R1 tires (standard V threads) on slippery surfaces. Still on the fence about studding them with Maxigrip studs. It should be noted that they came with that tractors. If I had absolutely to change tires i would buy those.


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## Neige

They definitely make a difference. You will have better traction with the nokian tires.


----------



## framer1901

Neige, are you running Nokians on loaders as well? If so, how is the wear on them? New tires, Loadmasters lasted roughly 1900 hours at 95% of the time plowing snow - we drive on the road a lot.


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## RAZOR

I run Nokian tires on one of my tractors, R4 tires on the others. They are better in the snow but because of the price I am not getting Nokians on my next tractors. I use the tractors for loading soil in the summer and the R4s are alot better in soil/mud.


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## excav8ter

What can i expect to pay for some snow tires on my New Holland TL100A? 
I have a few new clients with some pretty sketchy slopes to deal with. The R4's on the tractor right now do great on "level" ground. But side hills are a bit spooky.


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## excav8ter

Getting more interest in the tractor/blower for this year. I better be careful, or we're going to need another tractor.


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

Could not get the deal I wanted on the John Deer. So I bought a 2014 New Holland T5-115 and a 92 inch blower from Fargo Snow.. By the way found a great dealer on med duty trucks. Imel truck sales out of the Midwest . I ordered a truck from him..bring on writer.


----------



## IDOCTORTREES




----------



## extremepusher

Hey Wade, what yr is that freightliner? Did it come with the plow and box or did they have it installed for you? How $?


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

All set up with new plow sander dump body $58,000

Here is another link.


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## cat320

Nice addition to the fleet that truck looks brand new. and best part no def tank . that new holand looks good to they had one here at one of the shows it was articulated and bi directional unit with a blower on the back and a loader arm in the front the whole thing I think listed out at $110K .

Good luck with both units Wade I'm sure they will pay for themselves in no time .


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## IDOCTORTREES

Thanks, we are already working on equipment.


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## SDLandscapes VT

Sold two more driveways this week--marketing goes into full effect in September and renewal emails will go out this week. Big tractor just had service and it is rented out to a friend who is using it for horse hay so a quick clean and adjust and that will be ready to rock though I don't get it back till 10/14. Little tractor has the loader on it and we use it at our shop as the shop machine. It will require some light service and then a tiny bit of work on the blowers and we are in business again. Really cranking the marketing this season looking to grow this to be a significant portion of our revenue.


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## SDLandscapes VT

Wade--you should look at a switch and go for a larger truck like that--fast switching between chipper boxes, salters, dump bodies, flat beds all with one truck. Great unit


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## IDOCTORTREES

SDLandscapes VT;1821852 said:


> Wade--you should look at a switch and go for a larger truck like that--fast switching between chipper boxes, salters, dump bodies, flat beds all with one truck. Great unit


Thanks I would if I had a need. I already have all of them..


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## cat320

the video the truck was nice when you get the new 
holland all fitted up love to see one of that .


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## framer1901

Was feeling a bit nervous and edgy about what we have into our "new" Freightliner, that's a very nice truck, I'll post pics of ours later this week when the bed gets back.

Is that a Reese hitch back there, we've been waiting on one for 3 weeks now.


----------



## 2002F150

Hi Guy's just a quick question, i haven't read thrue all this thread yet and i planned onto. But i need to know asap since i am doing my business plan and need to include what i will be using.. I am switching from plane snow blower to either a truck and a plow.. or Tractor with inverter blower ( not sure if i said that right ) Now the question is..

Do i need a special licence to drive that tractor?

Also I am looking to do residential and maybe small commercial for the first year

here's one of my contract.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4165...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU9oyIrPHStPWYXXnEoLRAw!2e0

I am wondering about tractor would any of these do ? starting with the lowest in price would be prefered.

L4060HSTCC http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=699&title=L4060HSTCC
L5460HSTCC http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=768&title=L5460HSTCC

M6060HDCC http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=321&title=M6060HDCC
M7060HDCC12 http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=326&title=M7060HDCC12
M100GXDTCC http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=625&title=M100GXDTCC - probably my fav one. but if the cheapest one will do.. than i will spare some cash
M108SDSC http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=214&title=M108SDSC

Hope to get some informative response. thanks in advance.


----------



## MogMan

No special license required on a tractor, at least not in Qc.

I would go with a tractor with at least 85hp PTO in order to run a 92 inches inverted blower.


2002F150;1822934 said:


> Hi Guy's just a quick question, i haven't read thrue all this thread yet and i planned onto. But i need to know asap since i am doing my business plan and need to include what i will be using.. I am switching from plane snow blower to either a truck and a plow.. or Tractor with inverter blower ( not sure if i said that right ) Now the question is..
> 
> Do i need a special licence to drive that tractor?
> 
> Also I am looking to do residential and maybe small commercial for the first year
> 
> here's one of my contract.
> https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4165...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU9oyIrPHStPWYXXnEoLRAw!2e0
> 
> I am wondering about tractor would any of these do ? starting with the lowest in price would be prefered.
> 
> L4060HSTCC http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=699&title=L4060HSTCC
> L5460HSTCC http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=768&title=L5460HSTCC
> 
> M6060HDCC http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=321&title=M6060HDCC
> M7060HDCC12 http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=326&title=M7060HDCC12
> M100GXDTCC http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=625&title=M100GXDTCC - probably my fav one. but if the cheapest one will do.. than i will spare some cash
> M108SDSC http://kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=&prodid=214&title=M108SDSC
> 
> Hope to get some informative response. thanks in advance.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

@Mogman. We have a 920-280 running on 66 PTO HP with 85 engine HP--had no issues and we cleared one storm over 24" in a pass on a few driveways--didn't see too much difference vs. our 88 PTO hp 100 or 115 engine hp tractor in terms of speed as both had to slow down to not leave spill over.

If I was to get a new tractor right now I d get the JD 5115 M 115 engine HP 88+ PTO hp but in the smaller frame which works better in our driveways. Our 6 series--while nice is probably a little too large for some of our driveways


----------



## 2002F150

MogMan;1822949 said:


> No special license required on a tractor, at least not in Qc.
> 
> I would go with a tractor with at least 85hp PTO in order to run a 92 inches inverted blower.


Thanks Mog, I am looking everywhere for info on the licence. and seems like i do not need a special licence, can't drive them on highway is what i found.. not sure if it's correct.

So i am guessing if i go with Kubota - M100GXDTCC would be ideal. Not sure about New Holland or John Deere, went on both site and i get kinda of lost.

Which company is easier to maintain.. let's say something breaks.. I am sure i can read all that on this thread now at page 4


----------



## MogMan

I was saying 85hp because I would prefer more hp than what the attachment is rated for.

Your input proves that you can do fine with a lower hp.

That's great

[ running on 66 PTO HP with 85 engine HP--had no issues and we cleared one storm over 24" in a pass on a few driveways--didn't see too much difference vs. our 88 PTO hp 100 or 115 engine hp tractor in terms of speed as both had to slow down to not leave spill over.

If I was to get a new tractor right now I d get the JD 5115 M 115 engine HP 88+ PTO hp but in the smaller frame which works better in our driveways. Our 6 series--while nice is probably a little too large for some of our driveways[/QUOTE]


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## SDLandscapes VT

I m with you on the higher HP PTO it really is an added bonus, but we found the size of the tractor was almost a bigger issue


----------



## MogMan

There's a PDF on the SAAQ 's website that is titled "vehicules affectés au déneigement" or something along those lines, it covers the legality of ag tractors on the roads

When you shop for tractors in that HP range, check their top speed. For me, its one of the most important feature along variable flow on the hydraulic lines and powershuttle controls.

On my new NH, they changed the powershuttle lever and it now sucks a fat one.



2002F150;1822953 said:


> Thanks Mog, I am looking everywhere for info on the licence. and seems like i do not need a special licence, can't drive them on highway is what i found.. not sure if it's correct.
> 
> So i am guessing if i go with Kubota - M100GXDTCC would be ideal. Not sure about New Holland or John Deere, went on both site and i get kinda of lost.
> 
> Which company is easier to maintain.. let's say something breaks.. I am sure i can read all that on this thread now at page 4


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

True the 6 series does go 8 mph faster than my 5 series, but on the winter roads in this area the 5 definitely is the more comfortable and safer ride.


----------



## s_aloisio

I'd like to thank everyone for all the information posted in this thread. 

Im all set up to offer blower service this winter now. Kubota m110gx with Nokian TRI2 tires, 92" Shoule Blower, Snow stakes from Paul, Website up and running, and flyers going out starting tomorrow. 

Without all the information in this thread I would have never even considered this venture.


----------



## s_aloisio

A couple of pictures of my setup.


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## PTSolutions

I'm glad this thread is still going strong!

Nice tractor S_A, let me know how you like her, been considering adding an m100/110 to our mix.

Question for Paul or Fargo, should I get a factory cutting edge for my shoule s492, or are there aftermarkets places I can look at. It's come time for replacement and I don't see them listed on Shoule's website.


----------



## Neige

I can find out for you, give me a few days since I am away right now. I would check local to get a price comparison.


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## merrimacmill

Here you go boys! Some units for sale, incase anyone is on the hunt for some nice snow only tractors.

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=1829220#post1829220


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## RAZOR

I upgraded one of my L5740 and my old trailer for another L6060 and new trailer.


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## s_aloisio

RAZOR;1834027 said:


> I upgraded one of my L5740 and my old trailer for another L6060 and new trailer.


What size blower are you running on the 6060?


----------



## RAZOR

This is a 82 inch. I was going to get another 80 inch Econor but my dealer would have any until late October so I thought I would give one of these a try. Kubota is now making their own front fenders that mount right to the tractor frame. To me it looks they should be spaced a few inches wider but they first time out I will know for sure.


----------



## s_aloisio

RAZOR;1834103 said:


> This is a 82 inch. I was going to get another 80 inch Econor but my dealer would have any until late October so I thought I would give one of these a try. Kubota is now making their own front fenders that mount right to the tractor frame. To me it looks they should be spaced a few inches wider but they first time out I will know for sure.


I still need front fenders for my m110, the $1000 price tag is painful though.


----------



## ry_rock

RAZOR,
where in Ontario are you located? What dealer did you get this set up from??


----------



## RAZOR

ry_rock;1834445 said:


> RAZOR,
> where in Ontario are you located? What dealer did you get this set up from??


I'm in Barrie. My dealer is Topline Trailers in Winchester just south of Ottawa. Great people to deal with, it is worth the 5 hour drive for me.


----------



## ry_rock

RAZOR;1834545 said:


> I'm in Barrie. My dealer is Topline Trailers in Winchester just south of Ottawa. Great people to deal with, it is worth the 5 hour drive for me.


Thanks, I will check them out!


----------



## 90plow

Has anyone tried something like this in nj? I live in a semi rural area with driveways that are about 70' long one car wide and a three car garage at the top with a large parking area. When plowing the third garage bay usually ends up getting blocked so I could see blowers being advantageous. 
Seasonals are very rare around me I just signed one for $425 for the year with one walk and the driveway. It's normally a $40 per push drive up to 6". 
I guess some of my real questions are 
What size machine should I use to achieve a 25 mph road speed?
Would it make sense to use on smaller commercial lots that I do?
For those that have started from using trucks how many seasons did it take to achieve around 150 drives?
I have 20 now in 2 sq miles I had 30 at one point but dropped the outliers and really hard drives.


----------



## cda817

Extreme Snow Pros is out of NJ

www.extremesnowpros.com

It used to be on there website but I think they dropped the service.

Owners name is Chris Marino I had some questions on the service and I shot him an email through his website and he got right back to me.


----------



## hansenslawncare

*Cabelas Tractors new 75 HP Turbo*

Been looking into this Ag Set up for almost 2 years now. I will be pulling the trigger next fall; another year! Anyways, been looking at every tractor; now Cabelas is offering a 75 HP Turbo Tractor with a Loader for $47K.

They claim the ground speed is only 18.7 mph, however when driving around their parking lot it felt quicker.

However; what would you guys throw on the back of that sized tractor? 84inch inverted, or larger, and an 8' pusher on the front for commercial work? (smaller commercials)

Has anyone seen this tractor yet? I'm pretty green to the whole Ag tractor set up; so if there is a better option with a close range on price please let me know.

Thanks...


----------



## 06radoCT

@ hansenslawncare I went to Cabela's site they only offer a 50 hp tractor as the highest HP. There is a 43 hp and 35 hp also but dont see a 75 hp model.


----------



## hansenslawncare

06radoCT;1858386 said:


> @ hansenslawncare I went to Cabela's site they only offer a 50 hp tractor as the highest HP. There is a 43 hp and 35 hp also but dont see a 75 hp model.


They still don't have them listed on their website; they've only had them in stores up north for a few weeks. They've been pretty quiet about them for some reason...but they definitely carry them.


----------



## newhere

Why would you want to purchase that over a name brand machine?


----------



## Triple L

So he can wait for a month for the parts to come in of course! I'll never own anything I can't have any part overnighted in... that service is priceless in the middle of winter, even something as silly as a oil dipstick, cat has it the next day, odds of breaking one? million to one, but it's happened to me


----------



## newhere

Triple L;1858636 said:


> So he can wait for a month for the parts to come in of course! I'll never own anything I can't have any part overnighted in... that service is priceless in the middle of winter, even something as silly as a oil dipstick, cat has it the next day, odds of breaking one? million to one, but it's happened to me


Couldn't agree more. You say million to one but it seems like every winter at least one thing happens. A good dealer can be a make it or break it in the middle of a storm.


----------



## hansenslawncare

I don't know guys. Cabelas services and stocks parts at their stores around me. Cabelas is less than 5 miles from my house. Any other Ag dealer, 40 minutes. 

Seem like a good fit. thoughts???


----------



## fireball

Guess your right Hansen, if they don't perform, you buy one of their guns and shoot the tractor


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## R&R Yard Design

Hi guys we are looking for some help I found a kubota m9540 with 3095 hrs on it for 33500 is that a good tractor to use with a 92 inch blower it comes with a loader on it


----------



## Neige

R&R Yard Design;1862937 said:


> Hi guys we are looking for some help I found a kubota m9540 with 3095 hrs on it for 33500 is that a good tractor to use with a 92 inch blower it comes with a loader on it


That will handle a 92 inch no problem. What year is the tractor?
I have four Kubota M9000 year 2002 with 1160 to 1460 hrs on them for sale.
We are asking $22,000.00 US for each.


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## R&R Yard Design

Its a 07 to 2010

Hey Paul can I call you in about an hour or so


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## Mark Oomkes

R&R Yard Design;1862937 said:


> Hi guys we are looking for some help I found a kubota m9540 with 3095 hrs on it for 33500 is that a good tractor to use with a 92 inch blower it comes with a loader on it


Price is kinda steep.


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## Neige

R&R Yard Design;1862968 said:


> Its a 07 to 2010
> 
> Hey Paul can I call you in about an hour or so[/QUOTE
> sure 514 608 4675


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## excav8ter

Can't believe that i have been out in the Blower twice already. Almost 14 hours on the tractor / blower. Feels good to get back in the saddle again.


----------



## ry_rock

excav8ter;1870424 said:


> Can't believe that i have been out in the Blower twice already. Almost 14 hours on the tractor / blower. Feels good to get back in the saddle again.


Thumbs Up NICE!!!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Couple quick questions for the experts. 

We had a big inch of fairly wet snow this morning, great morning to give it a try for a new setup and a new guy. 

But, he had some problems. 

#1 Lots of plugging, he said he was running full RPM's, but it still plugged up. Any suggestions?

#2 He also said the hydros for the chute and deflector would not work at full RPM's. It's a JD 5101e. Doesn't sound right to me, but I haven't run it and have no reason to doubt him, as the operator is very smart and good with equipment. 

If you need further info, I'll get it tomorrow.


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## Herm Witte

What you doing plowing one inch (or less)?  We've not had a lot of issues plugging up, but working speed always a factor. You said he was working at a high rpm, which range? It is important with wet snow to keep the rpm's up, move to a lower range. the proper range for the conditions will help. 

Regarding the chute and deflector control issue I do know that one our blowers is more responsive than the other. I'd ask Your tractor dealer about it and possibly Steve at Fargo Snow.


----------



## excav8ter

I had one clog yesterday, a small one, but it was my fault. I found out very quickly that when blowing heavy snow, you want to make sure you lift the blower clear of the snow before letting up on the throttle, so the fan can clear itself. At least that's how i do it.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Herm Witte;1871511 said:


> What you doing plowing one inch (or less)?  We've not had a lot of issues plugging up, but working speed always a factor. You said he was working at a high rpm, which range? It is important with wet snow to keep the rpm's up, move to a lower range. the proper range for the conditions will help.
> 
> Regarding the chute and deflector control issue I do know that one our blowers is more responsive than the other. I'd ask Your tractor dealer about it and possibly Steve at Fargo Snow.


At least we were plowing an inch, Herm.

There was a certain large contractor with red trucks that was plowing a half inch or less yesterday morning. I can understand wanting to get out the first time to work out the bugs, but let's be realistic to the customers here.

We will be in contact with the dealer today, and I will pass along excav8tor's recommendation.

Thanks


----------



## Herm Witte

Mark Oomkes;1871588 said:


> There was a certain large contractor with red trucks that was plowing a half inch or less yesterday morning. I can understand wanting to get out the first time to work out the bugs, but let's be realistic to the customers here.
> 
> Mark, I actually saw the same Red Army at a Speedway, 1/2 - 3/4" of snow. I spoke to the management about it.
> 
> Now we will keep the thread on track.


----------



## Neige

Mark Oomkes;1871325 said:


> Couple quick questions for the experts.
> 
> We had a big inch of fairly wet snow this morning, great morning to give it a try for a new setup and a new guy.
> 
> But, he had some problems.
> 
> #1 Lots of plugging, he said he was running full RPM's, but it still plugged up. Any suggestions?
> 
> #2 He also said the hydros for the chute and deflector would not work at full RPM's. It's a JD 5101e. Doesn't sound right to me, but I haven't run it and have no reason to doubt him, as the operator is very smart and good with equipment.
> 
> If you need further info, I'll get it tomorrow.


The plugging issue can be a very frustrating issue. (1)The first thing I will say, should you plug the chute, make sure you completely clear all the snow from the chute. If you only clear a small opening it will happen again, and again and again. (2) If you notice your chute is blocked, do not try and blow more snow through in the hopes of getting it unclogged. This will only make clearing out the chute a more difficult job. (3) Most people tend to clog the chute when they slow down at the street and lower the RPM. Try and set your RPM at set rate between 1000 to 1600, to ensure that its does not drop below a certain rate. (4) There is a learning curve, and heavy wet snow is a ***** to learn from. Your operator will only get better, tell him it takes some time.
As for the hydraulics, many tractors have manual adjustments that control the oil flow. Try switching the hoses to the other oil outlet and see if the same thing happens.


----------



## merrimacmill

Just wanted to post a link here to my tractor for sale, this unit was ordered and speced for blowing driveways, so it's a great rig for someone on this thread.

It's literally new condition, with the factory plastic still on the seat.

Take a look!

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=1884046&posted=1#post1884046


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## SDLandscapes VT

For the first time I plugged the chute yesterday and it was my own fault---I let off the throttle to save a driveway marker I had sucked in just as I hit the plow furrow and that was all she wrote. If you keep the RPM's up I ve sucked up a puddle before without issue.

As for the hydraulics we have the same issue on our 5410. The hydraulic features "bind" at full RPM's. I would expect on your 5101 by the hydraulic remote plug ins there are some dials with rabbit and turtle---if you turn those down to reduce flow the functionality should return. We don't have the dials and I am in the process of installing some inline flow reducers--I ll let you know how it goes


----------



## Mark Oomkes

SDLandscapes VT;1884375 said:


> For the first time I plugged the chute yesterday and it was my own fault---I let off the throttle to save a driveway marker I had sucked in just as I hit the plow furrow and that was all she wrote. If you keep the RPM's up I ve sucked up a puddle before without issue.
> 
> As for the hydraulics we have the same issue on our 5410. The hydraulic features "bind" at full RPM's. I would expect on your 5101 by the hydraulic remote plug ins there are some dials with rabbit and turtle---if you turn those down to reduce flow the functionality should return. We don't have the dials and I am in the process of installing some inline flow reducers--I ll let you know how it goes


Thanks, now that we've had some lighter snow and practice, the plugging has been greatly reduced.

And we did make some adjustments to the valves and have possibly solved the problem with the hydros. My mechanic and son could not get it to lock, the normal operator and myself could.

Thanks for the advice all.

1 humorous story. We took over a private road plus about 15 drives on this road. Last year the contractor failed in a huge way because his trucks were undersized. They even missed at least 1 driveway for a month. The road was 1 lane wide in some areas, because they couldn't push the windrows back and the piles they removed from the drives were in the road.

Anyways, they signed 2 year contracts with some of the people, so we didn't get more of the driveways. I was happy with 15. So last week when we had 30", we're blowing the road and drives and one guy, JUST 1, complained to the property management company that we had left a 2-3' pile 8-10' up his driveway and he didn't have time to shovel and his snowblower wouldn't go through it and neither would his SUV. And allegedly the other contractor (from last year) had to make a special trip and had a hard time plowing that huge pile, blah, blah, blah.

Well, I had told my operator to recycle on plowed drives and unplowed drives to go ahead and just keep blowing it up the drives, so, sure we had blown snow into his drive. There was no way in the world he had a 2-3' pile in his driveway though. And not one other complaint.

We explained what, how and why we were doing to the property manager. And also said we _could_ go back to plowing the roadway, which would result in a large windrow at the end of everyone's driveway. Although we would cleanup any that had been plowed previous to us doing the road. We asked if the homeowner could take pictures the next time it happened. And basically told him that it would have been impossible for us to get a 2-3' pile with the snow we had over the entire week. He said "great answer" and we haven't heard anything since.

Not sure if the guy is friends with the other contractor and they put him up to it or if he's just a professional complainer. I can bet if Jon Geer was still running that company that I wouldn't have heard that complaint. But then they might not have lost the contract, either, if he was still managing that company.


----------



## castle456

I have a question for you guys....whats the benefit of running a reversible pusher (guess thats what you call it) with a snowblower or just running a inverted snowblower. I found some videos on youtube I will post them. The tractor size they are running is what I am looking at getting but don't know the benefit of just running a inverted or the combo they are using.


----------



## Herm Witte

castle456;1888670 said:


> I have a question for you guys....whats the benefit of running a reversible pusher (guess thats what you call it) with a snowblower or just running a inverted snowblower. I found some videos on youtube I will post them. The tractor size they are running is what I am looking at getting but don't know the benefit of just running a inverted or the combo they are using.


You are losing a lot of efficiency and maneuverability with the pull back scraper with the snow-blower in those videos. You gain significant efficiency with an inverted and the pull plow/box would not be needed. If I were to add anything to an inverted setup for drives and small parking areas it would be a v-plow. Why, because you would not lose your maneuverability. There are many many videos on you tube featuring inverted blowers. Check them out and you will not (likely) ask the question again.


----------



## castle456

Herm Witte;1888692 said:


> You are losing a lot of efficiency and maneuverability with the pull back scraper with the snow-blower in those videos. You gain significant efficiency with an inverted and the pull plow/box would not be needed. If I were to add anything to an inverted setup for drives and small parking areas it would be a v-plow. Why, because you would not lose your maneuverability. There are many many videos on you tube featuring inverted blowers. Check them out and you will not (likely) ask the question again.


Yeah I saw a lot of videos for inverted blowers and they seem faster. I was just trying to figure out why theses guys use that combo.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

castle456;1889032 said:


> Yeah I saw a lot of videos for inverted blowers and they seem faster. I was just trying to figure out why theses guys use that combo.


Good question.

Maybe they work by the hour.


----------



## excav8ter

The only reason i can think of for a set up like that would be that they don't have any room to blow the snow with an inverted blower. Maybe they need to drag the snow clear of buildings and so on, before they can blow it. But even if that's the case, an inverted will pull a fair amount of snow, and then just flip on the pto and throw the snow in the open spaces they have available.


----------



## newhere

They run that because they are stupid and they don't know what they are doing. Same reason why they are running Ag tires and not snow tires.


----------



## CAT 245ME

castle456;1888670 said:


> I have a question for you guys....whats the benefit of running a reversible pusher (guess thats what you call it) with a snowblower or just running a inverted snowblower. I found some videos on youtube I will post them. The tractor size they are running is what I am looking at getting but don't know the benefit of just running a inverted or the combo they are using.


I've seen these videos before, I just don't understand why a person would go about it this way. The inverted blower would save them a lot of time and make more money. In the videos they are doing far to much turning around IMO.


----------



## castle456

newhere;1889167 said:


> They run that because they are stupid and they don't know what they are doing. Same reason why they are running Ag tires and not snow tires.


Lol.....guess I will look at getting a inverted.


----------



## newhere

I have a 4720 deere with a ehydro transmission and good tires with a inverted. Great sizes tractor.


----------



## R&R Yard Design

For any guys that have a kubota m9000 could you please measure the width of the rear tires from outside to outside. Sooner would be better. Thanks


----------



## AaronsSnowMN

newhere;1889239 said:


> I have a 4720 deere with a ehydro transmission and good tires with a inverted. Great sizes tractor.


Do you have any pics or videos of your setup? I'm seriously thinking about adding a tractor with an inverted blower next season and have really been interested in a 4720. Thanks


----------



## newhere

I don't have the blower on it right now. I have a custom made rear box on it now that I use on snow falls under 4" because it's faster then a blower. On the front I had a 8' straight but it wasn't good because as previously stated it kills maneuverability. I'm debating throwing a boss DXT on the front. 
I use to have a video of it in 24" snow and it was just kicking butt big time. I did a group of 4 big big complex drives in about 10 minutes. The hydro trans is pretty darn awesome. These guys talking about plugging the blowers is foreign to me because my Rpms never drop. I can keep the Rpms up and inch back to the garage doors no problem. I can pull some real James Bond style driving action in drives ways by tapping on the pedals and whipping the wheel. I can sling the tractor right around 180 degrees no problem. 

2 things suck 

Can is a little tight but still not very bad ( wish it had a jump seat for a shoveler because we so walks)

Road speed is a little slow at 17mph but still plenty fast enough to beat the snot out of you on the pot holes. I'm going to put considerably larger tires on it and that should gain me a little speed. 


Can any one tell me if any tractors have a suspension and abs braking in the states?


----------



## 90plow

How does a tractor that size do with an 8' plow?


----------



## newhere

Doesn't even feel it on the front.


----------



## blade runner

RAZOR;1834027 said:


> I upgraded one of my L5740 and my old trailer for another L6060 and new trailer.


How many hydro outputs do you run on the back? Do you use 3 one for rotation one for deflector and one for back blade?
Do you use the stick from the loader?

Thanks


----------



## Toxic

Here is my new blower tractor. 2014 M7060 with a 84" normand blower. This replaces my 2006 L4330. I can't wait for a storm so I can see just how much more capable this is going to be compared to the old L series.


----------



## newhere

blade runner;1892543 said:


> How many hydro outputs do you run on the back? Do you use 3 one for rotation one for deflector and one for back blade?
> Do you use the stick from the loader?
> 
> Thanks


I run all blower functions of the loader stick. Works great


----------



## ry_rock

Toxic;1892941 said:


> Here is my new blower tractor. 2014 M7060 with a 84" normand blower. This replaces my 2006 L4330. I can't wait for a storm so I can see just how much more capable this is going to be compared to the old L series.


Great looking set up...can't wait to hear how it works for you!!
I have a M7060 on order and should receive it on Monday or Tuesday this week coming and I can't wait to add it to our fleet. Will post pictures and reviews when it arrives


----------



## Toxic

ry_rock;1892984 said:


> Great looking set up...can't wait to hear how it works for you!!
> I have a M7060 on order and should receive it on Monday or Tuesday this week coming and I can't wait to add it to our fleet. Will post pictures and reviews when it arrives


Thanks! You ll have horsepower to spare with just an 80" blower on the back. I'm going to be putting a blade of some kind on the loader but i havent decided what yet. I would really like a 7' hla swingwing but they are $$$


----------



## hansenslawncare

What are everyone's thoughts on Kioti Tractors. http://www.kioti.com/products/tractors/px-series/px-9020/

was quoted $47k with the loader and bucket for this tractor. Could this tractor handle a Pronovost 92" or next size down?

I like how this tractor's road speed tops at 23 mph. Thoughts?


----------



## RAZOR

blade runner;1892543 said:


> How many hydro outputs do you run on the back? Do you use 3 one for rotation one for deflector and one for back blade?
> Do you use the stick from the loader?
> 
> Thanks


I just have the 2 stock remotes that I use for rotation and deflector. The back blade just hangs on a chains. I don't use the loader valve for anything.


----------



## Dan R 4000

hansenslawncare;1893233 said:


> What are everyone's thoughts on Kioti Tractors. http://www.kioti.com/products/tractors/px-series/px-9020/
> 
> was quoted $47k with the loader and bucket for this tractor. Could this tractor handle a Pronovost 92" or next size down?
> 
> I like how this tractor's road speed tops at 23 mph. Thoughts?


Receiving my inverted blower this coming Thursday 78" for my Kioti DK45


----------



## ry_rock

hansenslawncare;1893233 said:


> What are everyone's thoughts on Kioti Tractors. http://www.kioti.com/products/tractors/px-series/px-9020/
> 
> was quoted $47k with the loader and bucket for this tractor. Could this tractor handle a Pronovost 92" or next size down?
> 
> I like how this tractor's road speed tops at 23 mph. Thoughts?


I have not run a Kioti tractor yet, have looked at them a few times and I have stuck with Kubota due to the dealer support and distance to the dealer. I also like that the Kubota has electric defrost in the 3 back windows and it has a travel speed of 24.3 mph. I went with an 80" blower, the tractor you are looking at has about another 15-20 hp @ the pto so you should be okay with a 92" best of luck!!


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Hey we are taking our tractors to the Essex Junction Village Tree Lighting and Train Hop as a community involvement gigue. We are raffling off a free seasonal contract. The format is somewhat like a touch a truck and I want to run the lights all night but not run the engines because there will be hordes of people. Can we hookup to battery chargers and just run the lights like that or will that cause some damage to the electricals. Thoughts?


----------



## Enzo

Maybe wrap the tractors with christmas lights instead and power them from a small generator or building power?


----------



## Enzo

Also I was looking into Kioti myself, but the dealer is way to far for my liking. I am looking at John Deere and Kubota right now since the dealers are close by. My goal is to get into a tractor that can drive 20-30 mph which I know is tough to do with a tight budget. I am attaching a map of one town that we cover. Currently on this map are 15 driveways we do. I use to have around 35 but got rid of residential because it seemed like there was enough money into for us and went more commercial. Now I been reading into the tractor/blower setup makes me just want to offer strictly residential work and have less stress that I get with our commercial sites. Anyway what do you guys think about the area of town to focus on getting more clients with the route I have and bunch them up together on the roads I already travel and even around the block. Thanks for you input ahead of time.


----------



## blade runner

*Looking for the best driveway set up*

I have a kubota 50hp tractor set up with a 82 Normand inverted blower which does a great job. We are doing 200 drives within a development in central Illinois. We have had some larger snows but many are the 2-4" variety these storms really don't need the Normand. I have been looking around for other set ups that might work better for these. I think some sort of back drag box might work well. I'm attaching a couple of pictures I've found. If anyone has any ideas or knows where I could find it or who I could talk to I would really appreciate it. 
Thank you Doug


----------



## blade runner

Here is another picture. Sorry I was having trouble putting the second one in the previous post.


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## hansenslawncare

ry_rock;1893455 said:


> I have not run a Kioti tractor yet, have looked at them a few times and I have stuck with Kubota due to the dealer support and distance to the dealer. I also like that the Kubota has electric defrost in the 3 back windows and it has a travel speed of 24.3 mph. I went with an 80" blower, the tractor you are looking at has about another 15-20 hp @ the pto so you should be okay with a 92" best of luck!!


Faster road speed? that sounds even better...plus the electric defrost...how is that one handling the snow? On average, how many inches are your snow storms and how many drives are you blowing with your current set up?


----------



## Herm Witte

hansenslawncare;1895164 said:


> Faster road speed? that sounds even better...plus the electric defrost...how is that one handling the snow? On average, how many inches are your snow storms and how many drives are you blowing with your current set up?


I understand the desire to go faster and handle more drives at times, the beauty of an inverted blower is the consistency of the amount of time it takes to complete a route. We try to keep our residential routes at 5 - 6 hours on 2 - 4" snows so that serviceability is not an issue with larger snowfalls.


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## bellcon

I have an 08' kioti dk55 with a 7' blizzard blower I use for residential driveways. There's about four hundred hours on it which I know isn't much but I only use it it the winter. It's been very good so far. No issues , starts good in single digits not plugged in, uses very little fuel and the cab is good size, warm and no problems with the windows fogging. Can't say anything negative about it. I wouldn't worry too much about top speed, once the frost heaves come out it will be plenty fast enough.
Scott


----------



## hansenslawncare

bellcon;1895239 said:


> I have an 08' kioti dk55 with a 7' blizzard blower I use for residential driveways. There's about four hundred hours on it which I know isn't much but I only use it it the winter. It's been very good so far. No issues , starts good in single digits not plugged in, uses very little fuel and the cab is good size, warm and no problems with the windows fogging. Can't say anything negative about it. I wouldn't worry too much about top speed, once the frost heaves come out it will be plenty fast enough.
> Scott


What are Frost heaves?


----------



## Neige

hansenslawncare;1895415 said:


> What are Frost heaves?


Thats when roadways and parking lots begin to heave when the frost gets deep. 
Herm made a very good point about ground speed. The faster the tractors drive the more problems you are going to see on the three point arms of both the tractor and snowblowers. When you are driving full speed and you hit a bump, thats when you see blower arms start to bend and crack. We have also seen hairline cracks appear in the tractor housings near the three point lift arms. That is why they are now installing nitrogen accumulators on the three point hydraulics to protect the arms.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Neige;1895581 said:


> Thats when roadways and parking lots begin to heave when the frost gets deep.
> Herm made a very good point about ground speed. The faster the tractors drive the more problems you are going to see on the three point arms of both the tractor and snowblowers. When you are driving full speed and you hit a bump, thats when you see blower arms start to bend and crack. We have also seen hairline cracks appear in the tractor housings near the three point lift arms. That is why they are now installing nitrogen accumulators on the three point hydraulics to protect the arms.


Okay thanks, great point you made. What's the top speed you think is best for minimizing that damage?


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## SDLandscapes VT

19-20 MPH. We have one tractor that goes 27 wideout, but it isn't the best on the crappy heaved up roads


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## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;1895951 said:


> 19-20 MPH. We have one tractor that goes 27 wideout, but it isn't the best on the crappy heaved up roads


Roger that thank you for the response.

Anyone have new videos of your tractors blowing snow?


----------



## Neige

I was going to, but then got called back to duty and worked instead. Had a film crew follow me for two hours yesterday, unfortunately wont have access to that footage.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Www.snowblowvermont.com and www.facebook.com/snowblowvermont


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## hansenslawncare

Neige;1898336 said:


> I was going to, but then got called back to duty and worked instead. Had a film crew follow me for two hours yesterday, unfortunately wont have access to that footage.


Hopefully later then...


----------



## hansenslawncare

I fully believe a tractor/blower set up would work well in my service area. With that in mind I have started a new thread "http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=1898361#post1898361" in hopes to identify the weaknesses or reasons why this would not work. I did not want to hi-jack this great thread with negative connotations.

I do not want to be narrow minded when making the decision to purchase a tractor/blower set up next fall.

Thank you...


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

blowerman;1126797 said:


> As I'm pressed for time, the post today will be short.
> Glad to see some thinking outside the norm. While I do love the PXPL blower, the downside of this type of unit is the tractor. The New Holland Bi-directionals are good solid tractors, but they are not cheap, hard to find a fill in replacement unit during a snow, not many guys have a spare one sitting around, and expensive to maintain. Tires (radial non-directionals) are in the $1200+ range, (I replaced 2 this year) hydraulic fluid, oil and filter changes run over $1000 per year, and the loader while solid is not as beefy as a wheel loader. The blower on the other hand is unreal. Like you, I watched videos, googled, researched and in the end I had to buy the unit blindly as no one around seems to own them.
> As far as price, it was $18K with delivery, hoses & cutting edges. Does it live up to the reputation? Yep, and more. Sucks water off asphalt and then plows through 2 ft. of snow with ease.
> 
> I do run skids and blowers with much love, I'll share more after the weekend.
> 
> As far as inverted blowers, obviously Paul(neige) is the best one for this area. From everything I've read and watched, looks like one of the next big purchases for me next year. (other than dozers & trucks) I have a friend in Michigan that just added a tractor and inverted blower. (he's on here as Herm Witte) My understanding is that Paul gave him advice and help with blower selection (shoule brand) I can't wait to see how the blower is working out for Herm this year.
> 
> I forgot who posted it, but you know the line: "faster with a blower"! How true....


so you have the pronovost px? Are you saying 18k for the tractor or blower? Cuz im interested in the blower but not for 18k


----------



## Triple L

Yeah the price on those pxpl's turn just about everyone away... that's a whole lot of driveways, not to mention a 100k+ tractor


----------



## ry_rock

Just thought I would give a quick update after our first 2 day storm with the new Kubota M7060 tractor.

Great machine, was well worth the wait!! it pushes snow great and the blower allows us to keep snow of site as we can blow it away. Loader arms and bucket are great for loading trucks for removal as well. Also works great for loading salt into our trucks!! (just have to find a summer job for it now!!) At this point for the properties we are using it on it is the best all around machine and think we made a great investment. I will try to get pictures and video soon.

The tractor is very comfortable and road speed is good, just waiting on the air ride seat to come in and be installed


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1899408 said:


> Yeah the price on those pxpl's turn just about everyone away... that's a whole lot of driveways, not to mention a 100k+ tractor


Ya thats crazy. I was expecting more like 8k but equipments always more than I think. Not sure if you saw the thread or not but on a side note my back drag/blow off the road method works amazing. Driveways in under 5 minutes (no shoveling) and works up to about 12" before you have to turn on the blower. Might not be as good as in inverted but sure is a lot cheaper. My dad is convinced we should build our own pxpl out of the frontier lol. Also I was wondering how many jds do you have? I thought you only had a 3520 but clearly not after watching your videos. Thanks for the help


----------



## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;1898337 said:


> Www.snowblowvermont.com and www.facebook.com/snowblowvermont


Aaron right?

I'v watched your video at least 30-40 times...your video should literally be the "national" campaign video for the tractor/blower set up. Very professional, nice angle shots of the tractor blowing snow...great job buddy!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

blade runner;1895154 said:


> I have a kubota 50hp tractor set up with a 82 Normand inverted blower which does a great job. We are doing 200 drives within a development in central Illinois. We have had some larger snows but many are the 2-4" variety these storms really don't need the Normand. I have been looking around for other set ups that might work better for these. I think some sort of back drag box might work well. I'm attaching a couple of pictures I've found. If anyone has any ideas or knows where I could find it or who I could talk to I would really appreciate it.
> Thank you Doug
> View attachment 140044


we run a 30 horse deere with 6ft fronteir blower on the rear and a cotech 6ft puller box thing on the loader. Next best thing to an inverted IMO.


----------



## snoworks1

Neige;1213458 said:


> Your looking at 2 feet from garage doors, any closer and you are pushing it. Don't forget there are lots of garage doors that are recessed 18 inches because of the house having an awning ( not sure if that is the correct term) so you have to careful that the top of your chute does not crush it. (See pic below for example of getting to close) You can always add the back blade later on if you feel you need it. We have never used one and don't plan on starting. The SHoule back blade is spring loaded so no need for extra hydraulics.
> http://www.shoule.com/souffleuse_s492_an.htm


Hmm, does this look familiar. I have to admit it, I hit three gutters last year, 2 bad, one just a scratch. One time I was trying to get to close to the garage door with out paying attention to the overhangs. The other two times I had the blower chute facing backwards. 3 out of 4000 thousand passes. I need to get better at that.

Chuck B.


----------



## Dan R 4000

Just got my blower finally Thumbs Up


----------



## Enzo

Dan R 4000;1904393 said:


> Just got my blower finally Thumbs Up


Is that an Erksine/Quick Attach (same company) Blower?


----------



## Dan R 4000

Enzo;1904910 said:


> Is that an Erksine/Quick Attach (same company) Blower?


Quick Attach just finished putting on the back scraper blade now we are 100% ready whenever it snows


----------



## Enzo

Dan R 4000;1905085 said:


> Quick Attach just finished putting on the back scraper blade now we are 100% ready whenever it snows


How do you like that blower? Have you had a chance to use it?


----------



## Dan R 4000

Enzo;1909466 said:


> How do you like that blower? Have you had a chance to use it?


Not had any snow to use the blower yet but when I do I will take pics and inform you of it's performance Thumbs Up


----------



## merrimacmill

Does anyone have any interest in buying a used Pronovost inverted 92" blower? Would be great as a back up unit to a newer one. Its older, prob 10+ years. But it has been sandblasted, painted, and had any metalwork/repairs done to it that were needed.

PM me if interested.


----------



## Liberty LLC

Happy new year all question for those with inverted blowers is a 45hp at the pto enough?
Found one i can afford but want the truth before pulling the trigger.


----------



## Dan R 4000

Liberty LLC;1915322 said:


> Happy new year all question for those with inverted blowers is a 45hp at the pto enough?
> Found one i can afford but want the truth before pulling the trigger.


I just bought a inverted blower for my 45 hp haven't tried it yet nothing but leaves to blow :laughing:


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## Triple L

45hp will be enough for a 60-70"


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## ry_rock

I have a 35hp...28hp @pto and it runs a 68" blower just great!!


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## NickSnow&Mow

ry_rock;1915465 said:


> I have a 35hp...28hp @pto and it runs a 68" blower just great!!


 Yeah I have a 32hp (25 pto) with a 72" frontier blower and it works great but boogs down in wet heavy snow.


----------



## blade runner

Triple L;1915349 said:


> 45hp will be enough for a 60-70"


Yes, we have a 45pto kubota l5030 and it handles an 82" Normand without any problems.


----------



## RAZOR

blade runner;1915701 said:


> Yes, we have a 45pto kubota l5030 and it handles an 82" Normand without any problems.


I had a 74 inch and later an 80 inch on the same L5030 and like blade Runner said never a problem.


----------



## IMAGE

Liberty LLC;1915322 said:


> Happy new year all question for those with inverted blowers is a 45hp at the pto enough?
> Found one i can afford but want the truth before pulling the trigger.


With 45pto hp you could run the N74-240inv 74" blower nicely, you could even run the 82" unit if you wanted. There are lots of guys out there with the 68" E68-220inv Normands on JD3720 tractors which are 35pto hp and they do great.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Not sure if any of you guys are interested but here's our alternative to an inverted doing residential. We still would like to try out an inverted next year though.


----------



## Triple L

For your size tractor the way your doing it is seriously just as fast, plus if the city plow goes by you can still blow that out first and not have to drive over it, keep what you have and don't waste any money on an inverted until you get your next tractor, hopefully with a cab lol


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1925001 said:


> For your size tractor the way your doing it is seriously just as fast, plus if the city plow goes by you can still blow that out first and not have to drive over it, keep what you have and don't waste any money on an inverted until you get your next tractor, hopefully with a cab lol


 Haha factory cab is definitely on the list. Once I get a commercial zero turn I'll have everything we need for all four seasons. Then the money will start piling up. Hopefully get a cab 3046r or 3720 or even bigger someday. And ya I think you're right we can do a driveway in 2-3 minutes right now there's not much room for improvment.


----------



## Triple L

When I did driveways with an smaller inverted blower on my 3720 I was at nearly 2 minutes per drive so that just goes to show your close enough and the money required to invest to save 30 seconds to a minute at best is not worth it... until later down the road when you get a bigger better tractor then go for it but right now just stack the cash


----------



## blade runner

NickSnow&Mow;1924998 said:


> Not sure if any of you guys are interested but here's our alternative to an inverted doing residential. We still would like to try out an inverted next year though.


Nick I have been ready your posts, you have done a nice job figuring it out. That is a nice driveway set up. 
We are running a similar set up on two Kubota machines 5030 and 5740. We actually have two Cotech 6-10 expandable inverted plow boxes being shipped this month. They will go on the skidsteer style mounting plate on our loaders with blowers on the back.

We plan to do the snowfalls up to 5" like you. Larger snows we will run the 
blowers on the drive.

What kind/brand of plow box are you using?

Good luck to you!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

blade runner;1925167 said:


> Nick I have been ready your posts, you have done a nice job figuring it out. That is a nice driveway set up.
> We are running a similar set up on two Kubota machines 5030 and 5740. We actually have two Cotech 6-10 expandable inverted plow boxes being shipped this month. They will go on the skidsteer style mounting plate on our loaders with blowers on the back.
> 
> We plan to do the snowfalls up to 5" like you. Larger snows we will run the
> blowers on the drive.
> 
> What kind/brand of plow box are you using?
> 
> Good luck to you!


 Thank you! I'm also running a cotech. It's actually designed for a 3 point hitch but we decided to put on the JD quick attach plates to run it on the loader. I also looked into the expandables like you have but I don't have the hydraulic power and didn't want to pay up$$$. Let me know what you think of it once you get them. Thanks


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1925101 said:


> When I did driveways with an smaller inverted blower on my 3720 I was at nearly 2 minutes per drive so that just goes to show your close enough and the money required to invest to save 30 seconds to a minute at best is not worth it... until later down the road when you get a bigger better tractor then go for it but right now just stack the cash


 Yeah you're 100% right. I only have 30 customers so it's not worth saving an extra 20 minutes (at most) over the whole run. On a side note I actually saw 2 new holland tractors both with PXPLs today, still don't know who owns them. I was hoping to be the first to introduce the ag tractor residential system in Stratford but there is also another guy with a 3720 and rear puller. Doesn't matter though I'm about maxed out with what I can handle for this year. Thanks for all the advice guys, I know I ask a lot of simple questions but I really appreciate it. Went from a belt driven lawn mower blower set up with 5 solid customers last year. Now we're running this and have 30 customers only a year later.


----------



## framer1901

Nick - I watched that video and shivered in my chair.............


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

You're all a bunch of little school girls lol.


----------



## newhere

NickSnow&Mow;1925691 said:


> You're all a bunch of little school girls lol.


You are a crazy sob!!! 
I would drive that tractor right to the dealer and trade it in for a cab machine!

I enjoy stripping down to a t shirt on my route.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

this site needs a like button and a tagging feature. @NickSnow&Mow go trade that in right now for a cab and a blower.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

In the midst of all the east coast excitement--cutting edge life (steel) on Normand 92-280 HINV--what is your budgeted replacement interval? Just turned them and going to pick up two new ones this week--1 season, 1.5 seasons, events??? 

Thanks


----------



## ehlingerlawn.co

SD we got two seasons, about 45, 7-9 hour events out of our Hard Ox edges.


----------



## PTSolutions

Do you find that the steel is harsh when catching raised parts of concrete/pavement? We use the poly edges and got 3 seasons out of the edge. It has enough give to bump the blower over the raised portion.


----------



## Dan R 4000

Dan R 4000;1904393 said:


> Just got my blower finally Thumbs Up


This machine is awesome I have never done driveways that quick Thumbs Up


----------



## alcs

Hey Nick,
I run a similar setup with a Kubota grandl5740 , pro fusion 6.5 10 ft expandable blade pronovost blower 72"
The guys that drives this does 150 driveways at the 4 hour mark, (anywere from 5cm to 20 cm)

I run a Cotech 7-12 with a PXPL blower on an m108 Kubta, I get 222 driveways done in 5 hours , anything over 20 cm blower only.

Awesome job Nick .
Thumbs Up


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

We love our new set up!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

alcs;1943845 said:


> Hey Nick,
> I run a similar setup with a Kubota grandl5740 , pro fusion 6.5 10 ft expandable blade pronovost blower 72"
> The guys that drives this does 150 driveways at the 4 hour mark, (anywere from 5cm to 20 cm)
> 
> I run a Cotech 7-12 with a PXPL blower on an m108 Kubta, I get 222 driveways done in 5 hours , anything over 20 cm blower only.
> 
> Awesome job Nick .
> Thumbs Up


 Thanks! You said you have a PXPL blower on the rear an expandable on the front? Do you find back dragging with the expandable and blowing off the road faster than just using the PXPL? Those 5740s are nice tractors. Theirs a guy on YouTube named Paul Short with a heavily customized 5740 snow tractor. He makes great quality videos and is a really nice guy check him out!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

IDOCTORTREES;1943906 said:


> We love our new set up!


Beautiful set up! Just wondering why do you have a snowing on the front and inverted on the back? Is it because you do both residential and commercial with that tractor or is there another advantage of having an inverted over a normal pto blower.


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

It's my Swiss army knife


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

IDOCTORTREES;1943962 said:


> It's my Swiss army knife


Haha ya I know and it's pretty sweet. Do you do residential at all with it or is it strictly commercial?


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

Residents and commerical


----------



## Triple L

It's the most effective way to break into the market, it's alot easier justifying a 100k tractor when it plows for 6 hrs then does driveways for the another 5 vs. Just doing only one of the two and trying to keep a healthy bottom line when breaking into a new market


----------



## alcs

Hey Nick,
I don't Like the PXPL very much , but it paid for. (LOL)
The combination helps me move snow around a little better.
The backblade on the pxpl only lifts about a 6" opening and sometimes doesn't clean as well as i had hoped when i bought it.
Keep[ up the good work.

IDOCTORTREES, Holey crap thats one awesome setup.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1944083 said:


> It's the most effective way to break into the market, it's alot easier justifying a 100k tractor when it plows for 6 hrs then does driveways for the another 5 vs. Just doing only one of the two and trying to keep a healthy bottom line when breaking into a new market


Ok I see. I love it, I think it would be awesome for both. I've been thinking about eventually going with a 4052r or 4066r (cab) with an inverted 6-7ft on the rear and a 6 or 7 foot snowing on the front for some smaller commercial work (just dreaming well I'm out freezing to death) I can't afford one but I think it's a great idea. If you have the extra time you might as well put it to work! Thanks and great rig idoctortrees.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

alcs;1944158 said:


> Hey Nick,
> I don't Like the PXPL very much , but it paid for. (LOL)
> The combination helps me move snow around a little better.
> The backblade on the pxpl only lifts about a 6" opening and sometimes doesn't clean as well as i had hoped when i bought it.
> Keep[ up the good work.
> 
> IDOCTORTREES, Holey crap thats one awesome setup.


Thanks I appreciate it. Ya people have been saying the PXPL isn't as amazing as it seems, especially for the 15-18k price tag or whatever it is. I've never heard of your first make of extendable, not cotech the other one. Where's it from? Thanks


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;1944165 said:


> Ok I see. I love it, I think it would be awesome for both. I've been thinking about eventually going with a 4052r or 4066r (cab) with an inverted 6-7ft on the rear and a 6 or 7 foot snowing on the front for some smaller commercial work (just dreaming well I'm out freezing to death) I can't afford one but I think it's a great idea. If you have the extra time you might as well put it to work! Thanks and great rig idoctortrees.


I think with a 7-13 wing plow up front that tractor would make some serious coin and be great for commercial properties with pushes under 200'... I don't think you're dreaming at all, I bet by the time your 18 you'll have one if you don't blow all your money on a "new" pickup when you turn 16... to be honest I like my little brothers 2003 sierra 2500 6 liter $7000 truck just as much as my Denali and it does about the same job lol he's even got a factory tv in the back seat and I don't even have that haha


----------



## excav8ter

SDLandscapes VT;1940774 said:


> In the midst of all the east coast excitement--cutting edge life (steel) on Normand 92-280 HINV--what is your budgeted replacement interval? Just turned them and going to pick up two new ones this week--1 season, 1.5 seasons, events???
> 
> Thanks


What steel are you using? My original edge on my 92-280 only lasted 7 or 8 events, and we had to flip it. By that time we had a bit of pack on the roads and driveways, so on the flip it went about 13 more trips out. We had a Hardox edge made by a friend who has a specialty cutting shop. That edge went about 30 times, and we just flipped it, i may make the rest of this winter on it. I do not run shoes in our blower. Our tractor route includes about 8 miles of road blowing, and then 70 or so driveways.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1944197 said:


> I think with a 7-13 wing plow up front that tractor would make some serious coin and be great for commercial properties with pushes under 200'... I don't think you're dreaming at all, I bet by the time your 18 you'll have one if you don't blow all your money on a "new" pickup when you turn 16... to be honest I like my little brothers 2003 sierra 2500 6 liter $7000 truck just as much as my Denali and it does about the same job lol he's even got a factory tv in the back seat and I don't even have that haha


Thanks! Ya it's sure tempting to buy a fancy truck and lift it with big tires and nice rims but that's just a waste of fuel and it can't be good for the truck either lol. A nice tractor not only holds its value much better but is about 1000x times better of a business investment. I know you told me not to get a walker but my freinds dad can get me a 23 horse fuel injected demo unit with 5 hours on it for 8k instead of 12. I haven't bought it yet but we're going to check it out in the next month because it in Quebec city at a show right now lol. Anyways sorry I seem to hijack every thread and make it about myself guys, not trying to do that just have lots to say. Back to idoctortrees tractor!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

IDOCTORTREES;1944076 said:


> Residents and commerical


 Oh I see. Is the HLA mold bord the same width as the normand? Do you find it annoying at all having it dangle off the front when doing residential. Also what number tractor is that? Looks like a 5 series to me. Thanks


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

Its a 5101. The plow gets in the way a bit. It's a trade off. I'm pretty happy with the set up


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

IDOCTORTREES;1944321 said:


> Its a 5101. The plow gets in the way a bit. It's a trade off. I'm pretty happy with the set up


got on more pics? I'm just really interested in it because the thought has crossed my mind before I've just never actually seen one. You're a thinker.


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## excav8ter

@idoctortrees.... i love your set up. We looked into an HLA for our New Holland Tl100A, but decided against it. For our market, we would be losing out by having 2 expensive attachments on a tractor. We'd be better off with a dedicated tractor/plow and tractor/blower. I have a perfect contract for your combination, but it wouldn't pay for me to plow, when i can be banging out drives, one after another. I find it interesting how different set ups are used in different markets. 
We were the first in our area with an inverted blower, the competition was dead set that it would never work, or jealous that they couldn't afford one. With the EPIC winter we had, we proved to everyone that the tractor/blower is the BEST residential driveway machine. I filled my route with no advertising by November, and still get calls to be added to my route, both for this year and next. 

Sweet set up though!


----------



## alcs

Hey Nick,
I am on my second walker mower. I find its one of the best zero turns on the market.
I bought my first Walker for 5500$
We just bought the 25hp last spring 20000$
Awesome equipment.
Oh , forgot the blade is a profusion, small company out here in QC. 
We bought the Cotech because the dealer i work with is having issues with the pro fusion people.
Any way keep up the good work.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

alcs;1944367 said:


> Hey Nick,
> I am on my second walker mower. I find its one of the best zero turns on the market.
> I bought my first Walker for 5500$
> We just bought the 25hp last spring 20000$
> Awesome equipment.
> Oh , forgot the blade is a profusion, small company out here in QC.
> We bought the Cotech because the dealer i work with is having issues with the pro fusion people.
> Any way keep up the good work.


did you say 20 000! holy crap i better jump all oover this deal thanks.


----------



## Triple L

Yup my walker mtl high dump was over 20k as well... that demo one seems like a very good deal


----------



## edgeair

NickSnow&Mow;1925396 said:


> Yeah you're 100% right. I only have 30 customers so it's not worth saving an extra 20 minutes (at most) over the whole run. On a side note I actually saw 2 new holland tractors both with PXPLs today, still don't know who owns them. I was hoping to be the first to introduce the ag tractor residential system in Stratford but there is also another guy with a 3720 and rear puller. Doesn't matter though I'm about maxed out with what I can handle for this year. Thanks for all the advice guys, I know I ask a lot of simple questions but I really appreciate it. Went from a belt driven lawn mower blower set up with 5 solid customers last year. Now we're running this and have 30 customers only a year later.


Good on ya braving the weather doing driveways with that thing. I'm going to disagree though with your numbers. You were pushing that tractor to do it that fast with your set up. An inverted blower would not only save you time, but save you wear and tear on your equipment. It sounds like you are going that way when you want to spend the $$$ so I don't think you need another sales pitch. However, if you are doing 30 driveways with your set up now, that 30 turns into 100 with an inverted and not a lot more time spent. Thats when you can really start to make the $$$.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

edgeair;1944499 said:


> Good on ya braving the weather doing driveways with that thing. I'm going to disagree though with your numbers. You were pushing that tractor to do it that fast with your set up. An inverted blower would not only save you time, but save you wear and tear on your equipment. It sounds like you are going that way when you want to spend the $$$ so I don't think you need another sales pitch. However, if you are doing 30 driveways with your set up now, that 30 turns into 100 with an inverted and not a lot more time spent. Thats when you can really start to make the $$$.


I completely agree and thanks. I don't want to get an inverted until I have a bigger 45-60hp tractor with a factory cab. Plowing is much more enjoyable than using a blower all the time when you're living the open station dream. It's somewhat hard to explain my situation but believe triple l and I when we say this is the absolute best setup for this tractor at this time. First of all she's only got 30hp so a 72" inverted would be the max you could go, another thing is the loader stays on this tractor and never comes off so either way that's gonna be on, thirdly like I said the snow in the face sucks.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1944436 said:


> Yup my walker mtl high dump was over 20k as well... that demo one seems like a very good deal


 Wow....is it a diesel? I see why you also use hustler. The awesome thing is that the hustler that I was also looking at is about 7500-8k so it's no cheaper anyways. The Walker has fuel injection, floating deck, pto drive, more hp than the hustler, faster travel speed, and a gear box not a belt driven deck. No question on what's the better machine, I'll let you know if we end up buying it, we're going to test drive it and hopefully buy it when it's back from show duty sometime in the next month or so. By the way how do you like the Walker controls over lap bars?


----------



## Triple L

Inverteds are great, and a product of Quebec Canada, but if you go on their Facebook page, you'll see, literally hundreds and hundreds of guys have tractor with front back drag plows and conventional blowers on the back... obviously, SOOOOOOOO many people wouldn't be using them if they were junk, expecially in Quebec! there are fleet pictures on this page guys with 10 or 15 tractors and only half have inverted blowers...

Clearly the inverted isn't the ONLY way of making a good living doing snow

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Déneigeur-du-Québec/279762235548590


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1944525 said:


> Inverteds are great, and a product of Quebec Canada, but if you go on their Facebook page, you'll see, literally hundreds and hundreds of guys have tractor with front back drag plows and conventional blowers on the back... obviously, SOOOOOOOO many people wouldn't be using them if they were junk, expecially in Quebec! there are fleet pictures on this page guys with 10 or 15 tractors and only half have inverted blowers...
> 
> Clearly the inverted isn't the ONLY way of making a good living doing snow
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Déneigeur-du-Québec/279762235548590


 Wow interesting lots of guys using set ups similar to mine, too bad I couldn't read what they're saying. I'll add you up on the good ol fb.


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## Mark Oomkes

IDOCTORTREES;1943906 said:


> We love our new set up!


What model Deere is that?


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;1944529 said:


> Wow interesting lots of guys using set ups similar to mine, too bad I couldn't read what they're saying. I'll add you up on the good ol fb.


I can't read anything either, I just like the pictures haha, tons and tons of guys doing it just like you! And the funny thing is it seems all the new body style tractors are set up like your style and the old body style tractors are inverted... I don't know but it's just something I've picked up on


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1944538 said:


> I can't read anything either, I just like the pictures haha, tons and tons of guys doing it just like you! And the funny thing is it seems all the new body style tractors are set up like your style and the old body style tractors are inverted... I don't know but it's just something I've picked up on


 Ya that's interesting if you think about it that's actually true, also it seems like set ups like mine are in the 40-60hp range they're not very common on big or really small tractors. Another thing is they're all in Quebec! I think they're way ahead of us in trying out new products over there. Seems like all you ever see here is v plows with salters and 6125rs with snowings for the more successful business's like clintar. Actually does anyone know how clintar gets those brand new jds and snowings every year!? They've gotta be rentals i saw a premier rentals decal on the side of one. On another note premier in tavistock absolutely sucks you call them 30 times to get a part or a quote but they never deliever or they're way over priced. Might have to try Huron tractor next time lol.


----------



## Triple L

$3500 a month for those Clintar tractors with plows.. 5 month snow rental


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1944688 said:


> $3500 a month for those Clintar tractors with plows.. 5 month snow rental


Holy.... That's a lot. I know that the 3039 and 3046rs with front HLA blade and rear salter they use for sidewalks are $750/mo. I'd think you'd be better to do what niege does and keep em for 15 years. I sure would like to get a brand new tractor with that new cab smell like my dad does every year though.


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## Triple L

Show me where I can get a 3039 with plow and salter for $750 a month! I'll never own another one if I could rent it for that cheap!


----------



## schrader

Ya I would be all over that, skid steers go for over $2,000 a month on a 5 month lease.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1944721 said:


> Show me where I can get a 3039 with plow and salter for $750 a month! I'll never own another one if I could rent it for that cheap!


 I saw it in a video at a landscape show in newbrunswick lol.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

schrader;1944727 said:


> Ya I would be all over that, skid steers go for over $2,000 a month on a 5 month lease.


 That's crazy makes you wanna shell out the 60k for a cat up front.


----------



## Neige

Triple L;1944525 said:


> Inverteds are great, and a product of Quebec Canada, but if you go on their Facebook page, you'll see, literally hundreds and hundreds of guys have tractor with front back drag plows and conventional blowers on the back... obviously, SOOOOOOOO many people wouldn't be using them if they were junk, expecially in Quebec! there are fleet pictures on this page guys with 10 or 15 tractors and only half have inverted blowers...
> 
> Clearly the inverted isn't the ONLY way of making a good living doing snow
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Déneigeur-du-Québec/279762235548590


You are right Chad there are many guys using front back drag blades.
There was a guy in my market who tried it, he got closer to the garage doors, but it took him twice as long then it takes with the inverted. I will be the first to say the inverted is not the only way, but it sure is the fastest way


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Neige;1944758 said:


> You are right Chad there are many guys using front back drag blades.
> There was a guy in my market who tried it, he got closer to the garage doors, but it took him twice as long then it takes with the inverted. I will be the first to say the inverted is not the only way, but it sure is the fastest way


 Agreed. We wherent saying it's better or faster than an inverted just saying there are more options that are close to as fast for small tractor residential. IMO it's the second best thing for residential and probably the best thing for a 30hp or less tractor. I think we all agree the rigs you run are as good as it gets for resi. thanks


----------



## edgeair

NickSnow&Mow;1944771 said:


> Agreed. We wherent saying it's better or faster than an inverted just saying there are more options that are close to as fast for small tractor residential. IMO it's the second best thing for residential and probably the best thing for a 30hp or less tractor. I think we all agree the rigs you run are as good as it gets for resi. thanks


I'm thinking a front mount blower on a 30 hp would be a great option also. Of course until you have a cab a blade is a good option.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

edgeair;1944797 said:


> I'm thinking a front mount blower on a 30 hp would be a great option also. Of course until you have a cab a blade is a good option.


 first problem with front blowers is that they will leave a small pile by the garage door, second is they seem to alway be on the small side compared to 3pt hitch blowers, third problem you can't run with a loader on and mine doesn't come off, lastly I have no mid pto. They work in some cases but not mine.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Oh by the way triple l where did you buy your walker from Kitchener tractor? I got a great deal on my cotech from them, I'm hopefully getting that walker from a guy named doctor walker in dreyton when she comes back from traveling the world and having a bunch of people sitting on it lol.


----------



## edgeair

NickSnow&Mow;1944842 said:


> first problem with front blowers is that they will leave a small pile by the garage door, second is they seem to alway be on the small side compared to 3pt hitch blowers, third problem you can't run with a loader on and mine doesn't come off, lastly I have no mid pto. They work in some cases but not mine.


We've got all three types of blower discussed and I know the shortcomings of each; this is the first year we've used an inverted so I am a recent convert  , at least for driveways.

With the right technique, the garage door build up is minimized. I would have to say that outside Quebec, most blowers are conventional so most people are used to the buildup. No different as if you had a 3pt hitch blower like yours now. Size-wise you size the blower for your tractor either way front or back.

I wasn't suggesting it would be a good fit for your current machine, but as was mentioned earlier, you are driving that cabless to the dealer for a trade in any day now right? .... 

Most of the models of tractor you mentioned as ones you would consider would have the mid pto. Besides, no mid pto doesn't prevent you putting one on the front either, just that is a lot more expensive and wouldn't make sense compared to an inverted.

Good combo units for mixed residential/commercial are a tractor front end loader with forward pusher (for cost savings) or a wing plow along with an inverted blower. Another option (which we have) is a wing plow sub frame mounted with a conventional blower on the back. This allows you to blow back piles (unlike an inverted) and you can push forward or back drag whichever floats your boat. You get the relative compactness, but are still able to wing out that plow when you want to cover some real estate. Loader mounted hang out further and are more awkward in tight spaces (I know, we had that set up before the sub frame we have now).

Sizing is all up to what you are after for contracts. I think you can do this kind of setup starting in that 30-40 hp range, although something in the 80hp range would be a lot more versatile should you decide to grow. You are in a "snow belt" area, so using what might work in the city may not be your best all round option. If money is a concern (when is it not) then buy a good used setup (or at least the tractor). If its a case of being able to afford a new smaller tractor vs. a used bigger one and you want the size, then go used.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

edgeair;1945062 said:


> We've got all three types of blower discussed and I know the shortcomings of each; this is the first year we've used an inverted so I am a recent convert  , at least for driveways.
> 
> With the right technique, the garage door build up is minimized. I would have to say that outside Quebec, most blowers are conventional so most people are used to the buildup. No different as if you had a 3pt hitch blower like yours now. Size-wise you size the blower for your tractor either way front or back.
> 
> I wasn't suggesting it would be a good fit for your current machine, but as was mentioned earlier, you are driving that cabless to the dealer for a trade in any day now right? ....
> 
> Most of the models of tractor you mentioned as ones you would consider would have the mid pto. Besides, no mid pto doesn't prevent you putting one on the front either, just that is a lot more expensive and wouldn't make sense compared to an inverted.
> 
> Good combo units for mixed residential/commercial are a tractor front end loader with forward pusher (for cost savings) or a wing plow along with an inverted blower. Another option (which we have) is a wing plow sub frame mounted with a conventional blower on the back. This allows you to blow back piles (unlike an inverted) and you can push forward or back drag whichever floats your boat. You get the relative compactness, but are still able to wing out that plow when you want to cover some real estate. Loader mounted hang out further and are more awkward in tight spaces (I know, we had that set up before the sub frame we have now).
> 
> Sizing is all up to what you are after for contracts. I think you can do this kind of setup starting in that 30-40 hp range, although something in the 80hp range would be a lot more versatile should you decide to grow. You are in a "snow belt" area, so using what might work in the city may not be your best all round option. If money is a concern (when is it not) then buy a good used setup (or at least the tractor). If its a case of being able to afford a new smaller tractor vs. a used bigger one and you want the size, then go used.


 Yup if we where talking snow only I'd say forsure go big or go home but like Chad and Paul know I'm 14 so I don't have a shop or anything so storage of equipment is an issue right now. I really like the idea of an inverted and subframe snowing on a 4066r. Lots of time to land big commercial accounts later in life but route now resi route density is the plan. Another nice thing about a 3 or 4 series JD is that I can actually use it for lawn care/landscaping in the summer, thanks for your input. Neige has done it all so if he's saying inverted is the way to go for resi I'm with him. Not arguing with you either it seems like you're a pretty established company with some nice equipment, Its gonna take everything I've got to buy a walker mower so I won't be getting anything new or used for a while lol. Thanks


----------



## potskie

Triple L;1944688 said:


> $3500 a month for those Clintar tractors with plows.. 5 month snow rental


Clintar gets so many they get a discount. Lowest I've seen on a package of 12 was 1900 a month.


----------



## Triple L

potskie;1945265 said:


> Clintar gets so many they get a discount. Lowest I've seen on a package of 12 was 1900 a month.


Is that right eh? Wow, to be honest, for $1900 a month I think it actually does make sense to rent vs own


----------



## potskie

Triple L;1945402 said:


> Is that right eh? Wow, to be honest, for $1900 a month I think it actually does make sense to rent vs own


100 percent it does. 3500 is the new guy looking for a single unit price lol. 16K was my price with blade this year.

Clintar gets probably 40+ Between London and kitchener alone. Some have their blades some come with. So the pricing is understandable.


----------



## excav8ter

Thinking of adding a front mount, pto blower to the lineup next year. Our biggest account is asking about adding another piece of equipment to help clear the development faster. The inverted blower we are running is doing amazing. But with the new homes and condos being built, the dynamics of the subdivision are changing. We are getting drifting problems where we never did before. On top of that, he location of some of the new buildings is limiting where we can put snow. The inverted is absolutely amazing for just throwing snow away, but i feel that a front mount will give us more precise control to place the snow more neatly, because it will be easier for the operator to see the shute. The inverted will still work on the site, but with the addition of the front mount, i can focus on the drives that can just be blown. The front mount will take care of the really tight stuff where precision is key. We're also thinking of putting an Ebling on the back of the new tractor as well. 

is anyone here running a front mount, pto blower?


----------



## edgeair

excav8ter;1951680 said:


> Thinking of adding a front mount, pto blower to the lineup next year. Our biggest account is asking about adding another piece of equipment to help clear the development faster. The inverted blower we are running is doing amazing. But with the new homes and condos being built, the dynamics of the subdivision are changing. We are getting drifting problems where we never did before. On top of that, he location of some of the new buildings is limiting where we can put snow. The inverted is absolutely amazing for just throwing snow away, but i feel that a front mount will give us more precise control to place the snow more neatly, because it will be easier for the operator to see the shute. The inverted will still work on the site, but with the addition of the front mount, i can focus on the drives that can just be blown. The front mount will take care of the really tight stuff where precision is key. We're also thinking of putting an Ebling on the back of the new tractor as well.
> 
> is anyone here running a front mount, pto blower?


What size of unit are you looking for?

We just added a compact with a front mount PTO blower (51", 63" was available). It works pretty slick because as you say you have excellent control over where you put the snow. For a compact it moves a lot of snow and works great and is fairly fast for small driveways.

It was a lot like our high flow skid steer blower in that respect. Although the skid steer blower can move a lot more snow and has never lacked power in the residential application and we do get a lot of snow here.

If you go bigger than what you can get with a mid mount PTO, you are talking big bucks for the mounting system and pto shaft to mount something on the front of a tractor. Even a compact tractor with a mid mount PTO has expensive blowers when compared to conventional rear mount blowers.


----------



## excav8ter

I am hoping for the biggest Mid mount we can get. I would like a Normand 92-280Inv fot the front mount. We have a lot of area to clear. Including some parking lots, a type of round-a-bout, 3 miles of existing roads and some more, new development is being done now too. I was expecting $15-$18,000 for a Normand front mount.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I need another blower. 

Those things are awesome and blow away even a 16' Ebling. 

Which reminds me of a funny story if people think back plows are worthless. During our storm a couple weeks ago that gave us around 10" I was plowing one of our private drives. I had made a couple passes already and was starting on the drives. I did 2 1/2 drives one with a second drive to a in-law apartment, the others with turnarounds PLUS the cul-de-sac PLUS replaced a sheer pin in my Ebling in the time it took this guy with just a front plow to plow 1 driveway. The 2 with turnarounds are about 300' long.


----------



## SnoFarmer

Mark Oomkes;1958003 said:


> I need another blower.


I read that and thought,
Well good, GP is employed.....


----------



## excav8ter

Can anyone tell me what the biggest HP tractor, that is Hystat and has a front/mid-mount PTO? I am hoping to find something similar to our New Holland TL100A Deluxe. 

Thanks


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

excav8ter;1964635 said:


> Can anyone tell me what the biggest HP tractor, that is Hystat and has a front/mid-mount PTO? I am hoping to find something similar to our New Holland TL100A Deluxe.
> 
> Thanks


The biggest tractor that is hydrostatic and can be orderd with a mid pto and front 3pt hitch that I know of is the johndeere 4066r which is 66 engine hp. I think the kubota l6060 is very similar in frame size and hp. I'm intersted to know how the four l6060s are working for the Vanderzons. I was looking on the Canada climate website and over the last 40 years Montreal and Stratford have had almost the exact same amount of avg snow. They're at 209cms and we're at 218cm. My biggest fear about running a compact utility with an inverted is not being able to get over the snow (might not be a problem for you). If the l6060s have worked for Paul I think my next tractor will be a Deere 4066r.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

NickSnow&Mow;1964704 said:


> The biggest tractor that is hydrostatic and can be orderd with a mid pto and front 3pt hitch that I know of is the johndeere 4066r which is 66 engine hp. I think the kubota l6060 is very similar in frame size and hp. I'm intersted to know how the four l6060s are working for the Vanderzons. I was looking on the Canada climate website and over the last 40 years Montreal and Stratford have had almost the exact same amount of avg snow. They're at 209cms and we're at 218cm. My biggest fear about running a compact utility with an inverted is not being able to get over the snow (might not be a problem for you). If the l6060s have worked for Paul I think my next tractor will be a Deere 4066r.


Just left my dealer bought a new 4066r today


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## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1964733 said:


> Just left my dealer bought a new 4066r today


Sweet! That's my dream tractor. What options did you get and what set up are you gonna run?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

NickSnow&Mow;1964742 said:


> Sweet! That's my dream tractor. What options did you get and what set up are you gonna run?


Loader 2 rear scv's, premium cab, loaded tires, warning beacon, front and rear wipers with juice, radio and the tech stuff that comes with it--auto throttle, motion max etc. running an 86" pronovost for the balance of this season and will get a normand 82-260 hinv next season


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1964751 said:


> Loader 2 rear scv's, premium cab, loaded tires, warning beacon, front and rear wipers with juice, radio and the tech stuff that comes with it--auto throttle, motion max etc. running an 86" pronovost for the balance of this season and will get a normand 82-260 hinv next season


inverted or regular blower?


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## SDLandscapes VT

inverted pronovost 86" from Neige's fleet of loaners/backups--she won't win a beauty pageant


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## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1964773 said:


> inverted pronovost 86" from Neige's fleet of loaners/backups--she won't win a beauty pageant


Oh haha I see so you're upgrading to the Normand next year. Let me know how she works out! Where do you live?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

I live in Vermont outside of Burlington. Burlington is about 81 to 88 inches annual average (206 cm to 225 cm) and I live to the east at the base of the green mountains we see more snow than burlington proper--I would estimate maybe 10" more per season on average. It would be a fairly short ride for you to come visit


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## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1964786 said:


> I live in Vermont outside of Burlington. Burlington is about 81 to 88 inches annual average (206 cm to 225 cm) and I live to the east at the base of the green mountains we see more snow than burlington proper--I would estimate maybe 10" more per season on average. It would be a fairly short ride for you to come visit


Oh perfect so you get almost exactly the same amount of snow we do. Let me know how it does with the inverted I'm seriously interested! Will you leave the loadet on in the winter or take it off? It's funny I think there is a guy on here from the actual Vermont in the states that runs tractors with inverteds and the company name is "s&d snowblowing".


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## SDLandscapes VT

yeah that's me I m "that guy"


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## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1964803 said:


> yeah that's me I m "that guy"


 Oh ahhahahaha that's funny I guess it wasn't the actual Vermont. So you're Aaron? I've seen your YouTube video that's really good, like I said let me know how she works out. And ya I think I know where Burlington is it's not too far away. Thanks


----------



## AaronsSnowMN

SDLandscapes VT;1964733 said:


> Just left my dealer bought a new 4066r today


This is what I want to buy for next winter. If you don't mind me asking what the price is for one? Also if you have time pics please. Thanks!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

AaronsSnowMN;1964879 said:


> This is what I want to buy for next winter. If you don't mind me asking what the price is for one? Also if you have time pics please. Thanks!


I would like to know also. Thanks!


----------



## CAT 245ME

I see a lot of members on here jumping on the compact tractor band wagon, but one thing I've noticed in my area with those who have them, when they have to travel down an unplowed street with deep snow they struggle to get through it and I did see one tractor last winter get stuck in the windrow left by the city.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME;1964892 said:


> I see a lot of members on here jumping on the compact tractor band wagon, but one thing I've noticed in my area with those who have them, when they have to travel down an unplowed street with deep snow they struggle to get through it and I did see one tractor last winter get stuck in the windrow left by the city.


 I'm running a johndeere 3 series right now and that is true but that's only like once a year and its a lot better than 150k for a big tractor.


----------



## excav8ter

NickSnow&Mow;1964704 said:


> The biggest tractor that is hydrostatic and can be orderd with a mid pto and front 3pt hitch that I know of is the johndeere 4066r which is 66 engine hp. I think the kubota l6060 is very similar in frame size and hp. I'm intersted to know how the four l6060s are working for the Vanderzons. I was looking on the Canada climate website and over the last 40 years Montreal and Stratford have had almost the exact same amount of avg snow. They're at 209cms and we're at 218cm. My biggest fear about running a compact utility with an inverted is not being able to get over the snow (might not be a problem for you). If the l6060s have worked for Paul I think my next tractor will be a Deere 4066r.


Hmmmm. 66 engine hp? That probably won't do it for me. Might spend the big bucks for the kit to run of the rear PTO and get a 100hp tractor.
Maybe I'll give Paul Vanderzon a shout and aee how his 66hp tractors are doing.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

excav8ter;1964896 said:


> Hmmmm. 66 engine hp? That probably won't do it for me. Might spend the big bucks for the kit to run of the rear PTO and get a 100hp tractor.
> Maybe I'll give Paul Vanderzon a shout and aee how his 66hp tractors are doing.


 I don't think Paul has 66hp tractors? They have l6060s which are maybe 60hp


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow;1964894 said:


> I'm running a johndeere 3 series right now and that is true but that's only like once a year and its a lot better than 150k for a big tractor.


150K? What tractor are you looking at.

I priced new Kubota's, the first being an M108S 64,600 Financed or 59,500 Cash.

M110GX 72,500 Financed or 67,000 cash

These are Canadian prices.


----------



## excav8ter

NickSnow&Mow;1964901 said:


> I don't think Paul has 66hp tractors? They have l6060s which are maybe 60hp


I wonder what he would be using a 60hp tractor for? Blower up front, pull plow out back? Either way,i am pretty sure a 60hp tractor won't work for me... i need HP and most importantly, PTO HP.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME;1964904 said:


> 150K? What tractor are you looking at.
> 
> I priced new Kubota's, the first being an M108S 64,600 Financed or 59,500 Cash.
> 
> M110GX 72,500 Financed or 67,000 cash
> 
> These are Canadian prices.


ok maybe 150 is an exaggeration but atleast 100 for a Deere 6125r


----------



## newhere

I run a 4720 hydro and have plenty of power pulling the inverted. 

Never been stuck in it either, it will fly down unplowed streets.


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## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow;1964907 said:


> ok maybe 150 is an exaggeration but atleast 100 for a Deere 6125r


I almost used a low hour John Deere 7130 with 740 loader for this winter on driveways, wish I had of now. Really could of used it for pushing back snow on properties that are plowed.


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## NickSnow&Mow

newhere;1964914 said:


> I run a 4720 hydro and have plenty of power pulling the inverted.
> 
> Never been stuck in it either, it will fly down unplowed streets.


 Ya I'm with ya I've never gotten my 3032e stuck even driving forwards over 1.5ft of snow. What kind and size of inverted?


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## newhere

I think it's a 80" or somewhere are there. Econor. 

I will say doing 20mph with no suspension and hitting pot holes for 15 hours straight will make you hate that tractor. My a$$ gets pretty chaffed after a night of plowing.


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## NickSnow&Mow

newhere;1965019 said:


> I think it's a 80" or somewhere are there. Econor.
> 
> I will say doing 20mph with no suspension and hitting pot holes for 15 hours straight will make you hate that tractor. My a$$ gets pretty chaffed after a night of plowing.


 time for an air ride! And I'm 14 so I could care less about bumps lol.


----------



## IMAGE

excav8ter;1951815 said:


> I am hoping for the biggest Mid mount we can get. I would like a Normand 92-280Inv fot the front mount. We have a lot of area to clear. Including some parking lots, a type of round-a-bout, 3 miles of existing roads and some more, new development is being done now too. I was expecting $15-$18,000 for a Normand front mount.


Hey Ben, about a month ago I set a customer up with a 92" Normand that was front mounted, with a truck loading chute even. Hit me up when you get a chance and we can go over the options. :waving:


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

So several items here

1. plowsite needs a like button
2. I have a 6 series a 5 series and we are taking delivery of the 4 series on tuesday--what kind of streets are you driving on that you think you won't make it through? if you get to a high furrow put the blower down halfway and push punch a hole through backwards. I can't even picture a scenario where that won't cut it and we get some snow here. 
3. I won't speak for Neige, but I did speak with his guys last week and they love the little tractors--they are running 74" and 80" pronovost blowers on them


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1965069 said:


> So several items here
> 
> 1. plowsite needs a like button
> 2. I have a 6 series a 5 series and we are taking delivery of the 4 series on tuesday--what kind of streets are you driving on that you think you won't make it through? if you get to a high furrow put the blower down halfway and push punch a hole through backwards. I can't even picture a scenario where that won't cut it and we get some snow here.
> 3. I won't speak for Neige, but I did speak with his guys last week and they love the little tractors--they are running 74" and 80" pronovost blowers on them


 That's good to know did they go into detail? My plan is for next year if I can sign up a whole bunch of customers is to rent or demo a 4052r or 4066r and Paul said I could maybe borrow a smaller inverted to try it out and get a feel for the right hp/blower size.


----------



## excav8ter

IMAGE;1965049 said:


> Hey Ben, about a month ago I set a customer up with a 92" Normand that was front mounted, with a truck loading chute even. Hit me up when you get a chance and we can go over the options. :waving:


Thanks Steve. I am pretty excited. Our biggest HOA contract has another year to go, and they are willing to extend for another 3 years if we will add another machine to handle the changes in the neighborhood as well as the growth. The big New Holland is doimg GREAT with the Normand 92-280. Customers LOVE it.


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## Enzo

Well after this winter here in CT it may be a lot easier next year to sell the unlimited snow blowing service with tractors for a flat rate. I wish I started it this year. Many people saw my skid steer with snow blower, blowing back piles at some of my houses we plow and they were all impressed with there jaws dropping to the ground the way it moved the snow. I think its a toss up between a John Deere 4720 or a Kubota L5740. I was also thinking a Normand 82" or the Erskine 78" blower for it. My skid steer blower is an Erskine 72" standard flow and that thing is freakin awesome!


----------



## excav8ter

Enzo;1966928 said:


> Well after this winter here in CT it may be a lot easier next year to sell the unlimited snow blowing service with tractors for a flat rate. I wish I started it this year. Many people saw my skid steer with snow blower, blowing back piles at some of my houses we plow and they were all impressed with there jaws dropping to the ground the way it moved the snow. I think its a toss up between a John Deere 4720 or a Kubota L5740. I was also thinking a Normand 82" or the Erskine 78" blower for it. My skid steer blower is an Erskine 72" standard flow and that thing is freakin awesome!


I would definitely recommend the Normand. They are built VERY well, and will hold up better over the years. I had to use a 60" blower last year, on a 60hp Case, while my 100hp New Holland was getting a new belt and radiator. The blower was no where near as beefy as my Normand, and i could tell. It did not "cut" nearly as well as the heavier Normand blower. The metal is thinner and it's not as structurally solid. Maybe the newer Erskine blowers are different, but if your going into blowing, definitely consider what most of the guys on here are using.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

excav8ter;1966980 said:


> I would definitely recommend the Normand. They are built VERY well, and will hold up better over the years. I had to use a 60" blower last year, on a 60hp Case, while my 100hp New Holland was getting a new belt and radiator. The blower was no where near as beefy as my Normand, and i could tell. It did not "cut" nearly as well as the heavier Normand blower. The metal is thinner and it's not as structurally solid. Maybe the newer Erskine blowers are different, but if your going into blowing, definitely consider what most of the guys on here are using.


 I'm not sure about next year but some time in the next couple years I would like to start running a 78-82" on a Deere 4r series. Would you mind telling me how much you paid for your Normand and what size? Message me if you like I'd appreciate it I called Normand yesterday but the didn't tell me a price.


----------



## CLeslein

I need a unit like this for the back of my truck. Do they make them for trucks or just tractors?


----------



## mr_tiggy

what kind of truck do you have with a pto on the back?


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## Enzo

The biggest thing I have seen these on were Mercedes Uni-Mog. I believe someone on here operates on like that with a 3 point hitch on the rear.


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## SDLandscapes VT

so a big day for us--took delivery of the 4066r with h 180 loader. I have the loader on right now because the weight kit has not come in yet--as soon as we have the weights I will ditch the loader. I have one of Neige's loaner 86" pronovost blowers on the tractor. the blower won't win a beauty contest, but that combo is AWESOME. It isn't something I d give to anyone but it is functional. I do plan to put a normand 82-260 HINV on it in the fall. 

I did some snow blowing at my shop--we have a space in a warehouse at a trucking company and they have a basement loading dock with a "pit" ramp that hasn't been touched for probably a month--over 18" of drifted in snow--we weren't fast, but faster than a skid steer and a pusher. I m still getting used to the hydro. It will do 19 or 20 on the road if it is flat and smooth hit a hill and 12 is about all you ll get. I m still breaking it in


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1967444 said:


> so a big day for us--took delivery of the 4066r with h 180 loader. I have the loader on right now because the weight kit has not come in yet--as soon as we have the weights I will ditch the loader. I have one of Neige's loaner 86" pronovost blowers on the tractor. the blower won't win a beauty contest, but that combo is AWESOME. It isn't something I d give to anyone but it is functional. I do plan to put a normand 82-260 HINV on it in the fall.
> 
> I did some snow blowing at my shop--we have a space in a warehouse at a trucking company and they have a basement loading dock with a "pit" ramp that hasn't been touched for probably a month--over 18" of drifted in snow--we weren't fast, but faster than a skid steer and a pusher. I m still getting used to the hydro. It will do 19 or 20 on the road if it is flat and smooth hit a hill and 12 is about all you ll get. I m still breaking it in


 Glad to hear you're liking it so far. Once you get used to the twin touch pedals you won't go back. I've put about 130 hours on the 3032e this winter and I don't think I would like the kubota system at all. How many weights are you running again? I'd also like to know how the turf tires work out for you. Oh and how do you like the ethrottle? It sounds amazing but my dad said the big tractor equivalent is a bit sluggish. Thanks


----------



## Mark Oomkes

sdlandscapes vt;1967444 said:


> so a big day for us--took delivery of the 4066r with h 180 loader. I have the loader on right now because the weight kit has not come in yet--as soon as we have the weights i will ditch the loader. I have one of neige's loaner 86" pronovost blowers on the tractor. The blower won't win a beauty contest, but that combo is awesome. It isn't something i d give to anyone but it is functional. I do plan to put a normand 82-260 hinv on it in the fall.
> 
> I did some snow blowing at my shop--we have a space in a warehouse at a trucking company and they have a basement loading dock with a "pit" ramp that hasn't been touched for probably a month--over 18" of drifted in snow--we weren't fast, but faster than a skid steer and a pusher. I m still getting used to the hydro. It will do 19 or 20 on the road if it is flat and smooth hit a hill and 12 is about all you ll get. I m still breaking it in


where are the pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## SDLandscapes VT

Phone was dead


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## SIWEL

Well I took the plunge about 2 weeks ago and bought a used kubota l3940 with a kubota front mount blower. I have only got to use it for two storms now, but all I can say is positive. Next year I plan on buying a normand blower for the rear. All of my current 'plowing' customers are very excited about the transformation. I am the only person around me in connecticut doing mass residential snow blowing (not that I have a ton of driveways, about 40). Currently my route time was about 15 minutes shorter then using a truck


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## SDLandscapes VT

*Well I have one picture*

I did manage to get one shot at the dealer as they were hooking up the blower


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## Enzo

SIWEL;1967513 said:


> Well I took the plunge about 2 weeks ago and bought a used kubota l3940 with a kubota front mount blower. I have only got to use it for two storms now, but all I can say is positive. Next year I plan on buying a normand blower for the rear. All of my current 'plowing' customers are very excited about the transformation. I am the only person around me in connecticut doing mass residential snow blowing (not that I have a ton of driveways, about 40). Currently my route time was about 15 minutes shorter then using a truck


Hey Siwel, where in CT are you located? I am doing the same thing and switching my clients over next year and going to do heavy advertising starting late summer all throughout the fall. I was thinking of going with smaller tractors and front blowers like you got and trailer them to the houses, but then again might get into the larger hydros like SD did.


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## SIWEL

I am in middletown. I drive house to house, m.y route is pretty tight


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## CAT 245ME

SDLandscapes VT;1967444 said:


> so a big day for us--took delivery of the 4066r with h 180 loader. I have the loader on right now because the weight kit has not come in yet--as soon as we have the weights I will ditch the loader. I have one of Neige's loaner 86" pronovost blowers on the tractor. the blower won't win a beauty contest, but that combo is AWESOME. It isn't something I d give to anyone but it is functional. I do plan to put a normand 82-260 HINV on it in the fall.


The 4066R looks bigger than the compact tractors that are used around here, I know one fella that has a DK45 Kioti, I am not kidding, he has one property on one side of the river then he travels between 6 to 7 miles to the next property on the other side of the river . As you and I both know, that is a lot of wasted travel time doing nothing and this sort of thing is common around here, these guys have lawn care customers scattered all over the city, half of them trailer there little tractors to each property, I think they'd be better off just hauling around a walk behind blower.

I was talking to a retired lady (mid 70's) who last winter payed a lawn care company $1200 to clear her drive with a walk behind blower (20 visits), her drive was nicely paved, size about 30'x20' at the most. And to think guys like Neige charge $300 a season and provide a faster service.


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## SDLandscapes VT

on flat ground it will go 19 to 20 mph which is faster than my 5410--it does bog a touch on hills as it is a hydro. I ll let you know how that changes as the pumps and engine complete break in


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## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME;1967660 said:


> The 4066R looks bigger than the compact tractors that are used around here, I know one fella that has a DK45 Kioti, I am not kidding, he has one property on one side of the river then he travels between 6 to 7 miles to the next property on the other side of the river . As you and I both know, that is a lot of wasted travel time doing nothing and this sort of thing is common around here, these guys have lawn care customers scattered all over the city, half of them trailer there little tractors to each property, I think they'd be better off just hauling around a walk behind blower.
> 
> I was talking to a retired lady (mid 70's) who last winter payed a lawn care company $1200 to clear her drive with a walk behind blower (20 visits), her drive was nicely paved, size about 30'x20' at the most. And to think guys like Neige charge $300 a season and provide a faster service.


 A guy I sub for here charges $1225 for a season and pulls a massive like a 24 foot trailer with a similar tractor to mine and a walk behind. Some of the guys in town make fun of me for charging $350 and I just drive to all of mine with a tight route, that's a lot better than trailering Ino.


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## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow;1967683 said:


> A guy I sub for here charges $1225 for a season and pulls a massive like a 24 foot trailer with a similar tractor to mine and a walk behind. Some of the guys in town make fun of me for charging $350 and I just drive to all of mine with a tight route, that's a lot better than trailering Ino.


I have a copy here of the SIMA webinar Rethink Residential with Paul Vanderzon (Neige) and I found the most important thing I got from the webinar was that you are targeting customers that really do not need you, so you have to make that price very attractive.

How many drives are you up to now and how long does it take you to go threw them.


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## CAT 245ME

SDLandscapes VT;1967666 said:


> on flat ground it will go 19 to 20 mph which is faster than my 5410--it does bog a touch on hills as it is a hydro. I ll let you know how that changes as the pumps and engine complete break in


I remember a way's back you were considering a John Deere 5M series, did you ever price one.


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## SDLandscapes VT

yeah and I reconsidered what was really important for the business--5e series would be a better investment for snowblowing


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## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1967715 said:


> yeah and I reconsidered what was really important for the business--5e series would be a better investment for snowblowing


 What convinced you to go for a 4 over a 5 then, the hydrostatic? 4R and 5e are almost the same price right?


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## SDLandscapes VT

4r with loader and 5100e no loader and left over = identical price. We have other uses for the 4r off season, the hydro is an easier training rig, and we are picking up these smaller drives in a older section of town--they are cozy small and the tight turning radius will be helpful


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## excav8ter

Is anyone here running a New Holland Bi-directional tractor with a blower on it? I am particularly interested in a TV140. Saw some good, but short videos on YouTube. It was set up with a Pronovost PXPL blower. Looks like a very good set up to pair with our Inverted blower.


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## SDLandscapes VT

@Excav8ter

nice tractor the new holland bi directional--expensive, maintenance intensive, and tremendous loss of PTO hp via hydro transmission. 6 cylinder diesel will drink the fuel. Pros and cons


----------



## excav8ter

SDLandscapes VT;1968526 said:


> @Excav8ter
> 
> nice tractor the new holland bi directional--expensive, maintenance intensive, and tremendous loss of PTO hp via hydro transmission. 6 cylinder diesel will drink the fuel. Pros and cons


Good to know. I had heard they were a bit of a maintenance hog. I my primary reason for looking at one, was to have the blower in front for more precise control over snow placement in some increasingly tight sites. I am also noticing on some of my long residential drives, that the tractor tends to "slip" or dog track when following the curves of some drives. This means the blower is not making good contact with the snow along the sides of the drive. It's definitely not a big issue, but it's something i want to work on a solution for. Might look at our original idea of putting "wings" on the inverted blower, that are hydraulically controlled by the 3rd scv on the tractor.


----------



## Herm Witte

excav8ter;1968516 said:


> Is anyone here running a New Holland Bi-directional tractor with a blower on it? I am particularly interested in a TV140. Saw some good, but short videos on YouTube. It was set up with a Pronovost PXPL blower. Looks like a very good set up to pair with our Inverted blower.


Blowerman had one and does not any more. If you want to ask him, pm me and I have will send you his contact info. I actually visited him and operated the TV 140 with a PXPL. Awesome equipment.


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## excav8ter

Herm Witte;1968557 said:


> Blowerman had one and does not any more. If you want to ask him, pm me and I have will send you his contact info. I actually visited him and operated the TV 140 with a PXPL. Awesome equipment.


Thanks Herm. I would like to chat with Blowerman. We found a TV140 with 850 hours on it for a really attractive price. But if they are a maintenance and mechanical headache, I'll pass, and try for another New Holland TL100A Deluxe like the one we have, and put a front mount blower on it.


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## SDLandscapes VT

*More pictures*




























Apologies for the lack of rotation


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## Triple L

SDLandscapes VT;1967546 said:


> I did manage to get one shot at the dealer as they were hooking up the blower


Trade those tires in for turfs if you still can... r4's are absolutely terrible, I bet you can't even back in a driveway with a moderate slope without being in 4wd

Absolutely love the tractor tho!!! Awesome choice!!


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## SDLandscapes VT

Triple L--long story but we committed to this on Friday and I had everything in my possession yesterday afternoon ready to rock and they even setup a blower I dropped off. As part of the deal I am to run those tires and they are getting me turfs either from a tractor at a dealership in Maine or when they make their next stock order. There will be no charge for the swap and they will load the turf tires as well. And I agree as I have taken the thing on a slope and it is squirrelly


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## NickSnow&Mow

Love the tractor that things a dream. Chad i think there's a skinny turf and a wide turf what size do you run on your 3720?


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## SDLandscapes VT

*Slippery slope*

checking it out on a hill

http://essexvtdrivewaysnowblowing.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_1125.mov


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## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1968654 said:


> checking it out on a hill
> 
> http://essexvtdrivewaysnowblowing.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_1125.mov


Beatiful, kind of a silly question but how do you like the factory Becon light? Is it the old style mechanical or all electronic?


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## SDLandscapes VT

mechanical--it's cute they threw that in


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;1968651 said:


> Love the tractor that things a dream. Chad i think there's a skinny turf and a wide turf what size do you run on your 3720?


Skinny turfs, you want as much ground pressure in the winter as possible, and the turfs are more of a truck like tread giving them the best traction in snow


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## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1968684 said:


> Skinny turfs, you want as much ground pressure in the winter as possible, and the turfs are more of a truck like tread giving them the best traction in snow


Good to know, I thought ags where the best but I guess not. Haha stupis question but how bright is that light lol?


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## SDLandscapes VT

nope ags are better than industrials but not great


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## hansenslawncare

CAT 245ME;1967699 said:


> I have a copy here of the SIMA webinar Rethink Residential with Paul Vanderzon (Neige) and I found the most important thing I got from the webinar was that you are targeting customers that really do not need you, so you have to make that price very attractive.
> 
> How many drives are you up to now and how long does it take you to go threw them.


I've been looking around for that webinar. Anyway you could send it to me? Or???


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## newhere

I agree with Triple L, the turfs are going to be amazing once you get them. Keep this in mind though, I know whybi order new turfs I'm going to bump my size a considerable amount to gain more travel speed. Another 6" in height can fit. Increasing the rear and the fronts the same.


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## excav8ter

@SDLANDSCAPES 
So with a smaller tractor like that, what will you be doing mostly? Condos? A real tight residential route? I like the looks of that 4066R.... but after having our setup, i am afraid we'd be going backwards too much. I have an association that wants us to add another blower to help out because it's growing a lot. Is a tractor like that going to have the power to throw the snow 25 feet if you want to?


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## SDLandscapes VT

25'--no problem, it has 20 mph speed on flat ground and I ll let you know after we do a full run--it will be doing a route in an older section of town with many short driveways--it is far more maneuverable and the visibility is better over both my 5 and 6 series JD rigs. 

Our JD 6 series is very similar to your new holland--yes it works, but it's almost too big. The blower is the same width as the 85 HP and it really only is faster between accounts which as you know with density doesn't really matter. So we buy more fuel for it, maintenance is more money etc etc etc--why bring a gun to a knife fight? Nice tractor yes, good to have in the tool box for the what ifs--yes, best model for this business model--no, if you are in the same neighborhood try a 4066R with an 82" normand--on a single wide driveway you still make two passes yet it costs you less.........bigger isn't always faster and better--precision and maneuverability with a laser like fixation on the bottom line can add clarity to the situation


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## Mark Oomkes

So what's the difference between a *4720* and a 4066? Strictly HP?

Thanks Chad!


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## Triple L

Did you mean 4720?


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## Mark Oomkes

Triple L;1968986 said:


> Did you mean 4720?


Color me dyslexic.

That's why my wife won't let me do deposits anymore.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes;1968974 said:


> So what's the difference between a *4720* and a 4066? Strictly HP?
> 
> Thanks Chad!


 the 4720 has the same hp as the 4066r it's just the older version. How I understand it is In the 4 series there used to be the 4320 4520 and 4720, the new version is the. 4044r 4052r and 4066r, I think all they really changed is the lights and cab are a little nicer and they added emissions crap


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## SDLandscapes VT

They ve upgraded the creature comforts in the new 4 series. It also is very digital with a host of options and modes that I think will be very very useful. As for emissions it simply is a regen and as emission control goes I d rather have that over DEF. One thing that might take some getting used to is that there is no exhaust pipe it simply comes out a hole in the hood and the heat vapor can distort vision or blur vision to the front over that port.


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## excav8ter

I took a peek at the 4066r... cute tractor. Looks like it would be fairly comfy to run. And perfect for a tight route. I would be concerned about drives where i need to "drag" the snow aways before kicking the blower on. And it may not give me the ground clearance i need when running down the drifted roads we get. Four times this year, the roads we blow and the county roads we take to get to the other side of the development have been as deep as 2'.


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## excav8ter

Well, looks like we may be done with snow for this year. It's still possible to get a few more events, but pretty rare. Time to wash the tractor and blower up. Clean the plows and spray everything with Fluid Film and put them away. 

Already getting new customers signed up, and current customers committing for next year.


----------



## Triple L

excav8ter;1969711 said:


> I took a peek at the 4066r... cute tractor. Looks like it would be fairly comfy to run. And perfect for a tight route. I would be concerned about drives where i need to "drag" the snow aways before kicking the blower on. And it may not give me the ground clearance i need when running down the drifted roads we get. Four times this year, the roads we blow and the county roads we take to get to the other side of the development have been as deep as 2'.


So a pickup can drive down these roads but a tractor can't?


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## excav8ter

Triple L;1977633 said:


> So a pickup can drive down these roads but a tractor can't?


I never said that. But it was pointed out that smaller tractors will have more difficulty in deep snow. A pick up has the benefit of a plow up front if the roads get deep. For me, the 4066R would make no sense, because of the amount of large drifts we get. I have had many times where my New Holland TL100A is at its limit of what it can get through when going down a road.


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## NickSnow&Mow

excav8ter;1977581 said:


> Well, looks like we may be done with snow for this year. It's still possible to get a few more events, but pretty rare. Time to wash the tractor and blower up. Clean the plows and spray everything with Fluid Film and put them away.
> 
> Already getting new customers signed up, and current customers committing for next year.


 I also went by the deere dealer and looked at one yesterday. The quote I got for an almost fully loaded 4052r was $55000, the quote for the 4066 was like 63000. Its the exact same tractor just with 14 more hp I thought an 8k price difference was ridiculous. If I can pull together 90-120 customers next year I think a 4052r with a 78" normand inverted is the plan.


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## NickSnow&Mow

excav8ter;1977647 said:


> I never said that. But it was pointed out that smaller tractors will have more difficulty in deep snow. A pick up has the benefit of a plow up front if the roads get deep. For me, the 4066R would make no sense, because of the amount of large drifts we get. I have had many times where my New Holland TL100A is at its limit of what it can get through when going down a road.


 4066r or 4052r is not the tractor for roads I would say strictly resi or small commercial


----------



## excav8ter

NickSnow&Mow;1977652 said:


> 4066r or 4052r is not the tractor for roads I would say strictly resi or small commercial


True Nick. I was just more concerned with it's ability to get through roads that may be drifted up to 4' deep in places. We have 3 main roads on the North, East and West side of our development. It's very common during an snow event, with a lot of wind, for those 3 roads to be all but impassable for anything but a pick up truck and plow.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

excav8ter;1977654 said:


> True Nick. I was just more concerned with it's ability to get through roads that may be drifted up to 4' deep in places. We have 3 main roads on the North, East and West side of our development. It's very common during an snow event, with a lot of wind, for those 3 roads to be all but impassable for anything but a pick up truck and plow.


 Ya I know what you're saying. I think the best thing for drifts would be a big tractor with an HLA snowing or metal pless but maybe you can't justify it for roads.


----------



## excav8ter

NickSnow&Mow;1977685 said:


> Ya I know what you're saying. I think the best thing for drifts would be a big tractor with an HLA snowing or metal pless but maybe you can't justify it for roads.


Our HOA doesn't want the roads plowed. Ever since i showed them what the blower can do. All the plow does is make one pass in and out on the roads. That leaves the last 6 or 7 feet for the blower to get rid of. As i blow the last of the snow off the road, i do each driveway as i go past. We plow the parking lots for the Golf course and clubhouse. If we add another blower, we will probably start blowing the parking lots too. It's tricky, but it can be done.


----------



## hansenslawncare

excav8ter;1977688 said:


> Our HOA doesn't want the roads plowed. Ever since i showed them what the blower can do. All the plow does is make one pass in and out on the roads. That leaves the last 6 or 7 feet for the blower to get rid of. As i blow the last of the snow off the road, i do each driveway as i go past. We plow the parking lots for the Golf course and clubhouse. If we add another blower, we will probably start blowing the parking lots too. It's tricky, but it can be done.


Since the 4 Series will not work for you; what is your next tractor purchase?


----------



## excav8ter

hansenslawncare;1977689 said:


> Since the 4 Series will not work for you; what is your next tractor purchase?


Most likely we will try and find another New Holland TL100A. Also another Normand 92-280 Inverted. On our heavy days, I use 2 gpm with our current TL100A. I wanted to try a New Holland TV140 Bi-directional, but have been advised against those.

I actually found a twin to our current one. TL100A Deluxe with under 600 hours on it. Just not sure about buying right now. We are looking for another quad axle dump truck for the dirt side of the business right now.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

*Roads and Drifting*

Soooo....this past week I got a small taste of Excav8ter's dilemma

2500' driveway of a summer client who owns his own 2500HD duramax with fisher Xblade stainless V. Driveway sits in the middle of a fields with nothing to break the wind and catch the snow. The client was pushing with the truck and came to a point where the truck could no longer push and slid to the side off the driveway. He called me and I have some video he shot




























Fortunately I took the big tractor simply because I was in a hurry and it has the best road speed, but I needed everything it had and a little more


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## hansenslawncare

excav8ter;1977694 said:


> Most likely we will try and find another New Holland TL100A. Also another Normand 92-280 Inverted. On our heavy days, I use 2 gpm with our current TL100A. I wanted to try a New Holland TV140 Bi-directional, but have been advised against those.
> 
> I actually found a twin to our current one. TL100A Deluxe with under 600 hours on it. Just not sure about buying right now. We are looking for another quad axle dump truck for the dirt side of the business right now.


I'm assuming the bi-directional's are too expensive?


----------



## excav8ter

SDLandscapes VT;1977695 said:


> Soooo....this past week I got a small taste of Excav8ter's dilemma
> 
> 2500' driveway of a summer client who owns his own 2500HD duramax with fisher Xblade stainless V. Driveway sits in the middle of a fields with nothing to break the wind and catch the snow. The client was pushing with the truck and came to a point where the truck could no longer push and slid to the side off the driveway. He called me and I have some video he shot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fortunately I took the big tractor simply because I was in a hurry and it has the best road speed, but I needed everything it had and a little more


That's why i am a fan of the bigger tractors. Not a thing wrong with a 4066R size. But the mix of drives i have could make a smaller tractor useless on some days. I think your "mix" of sizes is a great way to go Aaron. 

Imagine that driveway, only 4 times as wide and a mile long.


----------



## hansenslawncare

That's some drifting right there...


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## SDLandscapes VT

drifts were taller than the Normand at one point


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## excav8ter

SDLandscapes VT;1977702 said:


> drifts were taller than the Normand at one point


I love going through drifts like that. Even if you have to back in as far as possible, then set the blower only part way down and drive back out. I have helped a few people out who just can't believe that a blower works THAT GOOD.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

from the video I just drove right in blower blazing and made a road--had to go in A range with the diff locked at points


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## excav8ter

SDLandscapes VT;1977704 said:


> from the video I just drove right in blower blazing and made a road--had to go in A range with the diff locked at points


Love it! Wish the video was longer.


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## hansenslawncare

excav8ter;1977705 said:


> Love it! Wish the video was longer.


What video? Did I miss something?


----------



## excav8ter

hansenslawncare;1977707 said:


> What video? Did I miss something?


The word "video", in Aarons post was a link to a 15 second video.


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## hansenslawncare

excav8ter;1977726 said:


> The word "video", in Aarons post was a link to a 15 second video.


Ahhh...found it, thank you!


----------



## excav8ter

hansenslawncare;1977696 said:


> I'm assuming the bi-directional's are too expensive?


I've heard they are kinda pricey. I found a few that were priced right, with lower hours. But i think the biggest deterrence is the slow forward ground speed when blowing. I have no experience with one, but that's what I've been told.


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;1977651 said:


> I also went by the deere dealer and looked at one yesterday. The quote I got for an almost fully loaded 4052r was $55000, the quote for the 4066 was like 63000. Its the exact same tractor just with 14 more hp I thought an 8k price difference was ridiculous. If I can pull together 90-120 customers next year I think a 4052r with a 78" normand inverted is the plan.


Ekotune it for $2k and be done with it


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## hansenslawncare

Triple L;1977775 said:


> Ekotune it for $2k and be done with it


Is this for real? That seems like an enormous increase; 61% ?

That equally makes it equivalent to a much larger tractor...help me understand this because I'm not well versed in tractors, let alone engines...


----------



## excav8ter

hansenslawncare;1977825 said:


> Is this for real? That seems like an enormous increase; 61% ?
> 
> That equally makes it equivalent to a much larger tractor...help me understand this because I'm not well versed in tractors, let alone engines...


I believe It's basically a bump in rail pressure and the amount of fuel injected on each stroke. Maybe a timing adjustment too. It's a big jump in HP for sure.


----------



## hansenslawncare

excav8ter;1977854 said:


> Not really. It's basically a bump in rail pressure and the amount of fuel injected on each stroke. Maybe a timing adjustment too. It's a big jump in HP for sure.


So it's not for real; but the HP is?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

so this ekotune on my 4066r

what does this do to the warranty? The DEF/regen? Fuel economy? Wear and tear on the engine and pumps?

Tell me more......


----------



## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;1977858 said:


> so this ekotune on my 4066r
> 
> what does this do to the warranty? The DEF/regen? Fuel economy? Wear and tear on the engine and pumps?
> 
> Tell me more......


Yes; tell me more too! LOL Thanks Aaron.


----------



## excav8ter

hansenslawncare;1977856 said:


> So it's not for real; but the HP is?


It's definitely real horsepower and torque. But the tractor is still "small". Depending on the use of the tractor, you may gain a lot from the new power, or you may spin your wheels a lot more.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1977858 said:


> so this ekotune on my 4066r
> 
> what does this do to the warranty? The DEF/regen? Fuel economy? Wear and tear on the engine and pumps?
> 
> Tell me more......


 Why would you possibly want more power for a 66hp compact!?


----------



## Triple L

It's the same as tuning a pickup, it's very real horsepower... almost all my farmer buddy's have their big big tractors tuned and have nothing but great things to say and haven't blown anything up in years with the Ekotune ... I wouldn't ask 100hp out of the thing but I doubt see why turning it up to 85 hp wouldn't be perfectly safe... it has a lot to do with timing and fuel


----------



## hansenslawncare

excav8ter;1977862 said:


> It's definitely real horsepower and torque. But the tractor is still "small". Depending on the use of the tractor, you may gain a lot from the new power, or you may spin your wheels a lot more.


Okay I understand that. Well then for snow blowing drives; do you see it being useful?


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## SDLandscapes VT

no for road cruising in C range as well as heavy snows it would be epic. I need to have an accurate answer on fuel economy because thing only has a 13.8 gallon fuel tank sooooooo...........


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## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1977868 said:


> It's the same as tuning a pickup, it's very real horsepower... almost all my farmer buddy's have their big big tractors tuned and have nothing but great things to say and haven't blown anything up in years with the Ekotune ... I wouldn't ask 100hp out of the thing but I doubt see why turning it up to 85 hp wouldn't be perfectly safe... it has a lot to do with timing and fuel


 That's cool thanks for sharing I didn't know you could do that to a tractor. Only thing It would be nice to bump a 52hp up to a 66hp but do you think you would even use more than 66hp in this size tractor? On another topic how are you liking the livedge? Better than a snowing? Buying more in the future? Just curious.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Triple L;1977868 said:


> It's the same as tuning a pickup, it's very real horsepower... almost all my farmer buddy's have their big big tractors tuned and have nothing but great things to say and haven't blown anything up in years with the Ekotune ... I wouldn't ask 100hp out of the thing but I doubt see why turning it up to 85 hp wouldn't be perfectly safe... it has a lot to do with timing and fuel


85 on the pto or engine horse power?


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## hansenslawncare

Triple L;1977868 said:


> It's the same as tuning a pickup, it's very real horsepower... almost all my farmer buddy's have their big big tractors tuned and have nothing but great things to say and haven't blown anything up in years with the Ekotune ... I wouldn't ask 100hp out of the thing but I doubt see why turning it up to 85 hp wouldn't be perfectly safe... it has a lot to do with timing and fuel


sorry duplicate post


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## SDLandscapes VT

A new drift busting video




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=938083312898186


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## Triple L

hansenslawncare;1977928 said:


> 85 on the pto or engine horse power?


It says right on the top 90 pto hp out of the deere 4720


----------



## snopushin ford

SDLandscapes VT;1980486 said:


> A new drift busting video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=938083312898186


Nice video!! how deep was the snow? Matt


----------



## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;1977858 said:


> so this ekotune on my 4066r
> 
> what does this do to the warranty? The DEF/regen? Fuel economy? Wear and tear on the engine and pumps?
> 
> Tell me more......


I talked to a Deere Rep; whom I am working with for my 4066R; and he said that a this ekotune will void the warranty.

He knows guys that do it all the time; and it will work, however the warranty will void and he said "it's not if, but when..." as in a problem going wrong. He said the engine will handle it fine; but the drive train is built to match the engine HP output. He said when the drive train goes; you will have a bad contamination problem going on...

Also, he said he's seen warranties denied on the wrong type of oil.

For what it's worth; he's a salesman who was prior a mechanic. He seems to be very honest. He's coming with me to another tractor dealer to test it out and compare to the deere. He seems very interested in educating me on my purchase vs. selling me...


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;1980776 said:


> I talked to a Deere Rep; whom I am working with for my 4066R; and he said that a this ekotune will void the warranty.
> 
> He knows guys that do it all the time; and it will work, however the warranty will void and he said "it's not if, but when..." as in a problem going wrong. He said the engine will handle it fine; but the drive train is built to match the engine HP output. He said when the drive train goes; you will have a bad contamination problem going on...
> 
> Also, he said he's seen warranties denied on the wrong type of oil.
> 
> For what it's worth; he's a salesman who was prior a mechanic. He seems to be very honest. He's coming with me to another tractor dealer to test it out and compare to the deere. He seems very interested in educating me on my purchase vs. selling me...


 Wish I could find a dealer like that. The guys here are so busy with big farmers it'll take them 2 weeks to call you back for a part.


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## SDLandscapes VT

so what other brand are you considering?


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## excav8ter

Knowing what little bit i know about tuning a diesel for more power.... I'd be SUPER nervous about doubling the horsepower with a "tuner". I have run several diesel trucks with a tuner, and never had an issue. But in the pickup, i was not running it hard where i was always "using" the power, but it was ontap if i needed it. I think in a tractor application, where your always running it at high output,i can't see a small displacement motor holding up to well, when your asking it to do the same thing as my stock, 100 hp tractor. I am not saying it won't work, or that it isn't possible. .


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## Triple L

On a tractor your really not working it hard blowing snow...

For 5 seconds on a driveway maybe it's at 80% power... my kubota m110gx has a power guage on the dash, sure your doing 2700 rpm, but your not actually using the hp even when it's to the floor going down the road, only on a very very steep hill will you use almost full power, most of the time the motor is just turning fast using 25-50% power... on a driveway application backing up into the driveway uses no hp, the first 15' blowing might use 20% hp and the last 30' might use 50-80% hp so really for 5 seconds s driveway... and again, i wouldn't double the hp, I would add another 25 without thinking twice tho if hp is what's holding you back on a 4720

Maybe if you hooked a huge farm plow on the thing and pulled it around for 19 hrs straight you might have a problem but I've tuned 5 trucks since 2008 and never had any trouble and I know JD Dave has his tractors ekotuned and he hasn't blown anything up... it's the typical salesman / mechanic speech... my mechanic thinks I'm nutz for tuning my trucks, I just tell him the 4-5l/100 in fuel economy I picked up will more than pay for any problems down the road and 7 years no problems touch wood... the tens of thousands I've saved in fuel over those years and the fun factor... keep telling yourself stock is best guys!


----------



## excav8ter

Triple L;1980852 said:


> On a tractor your really not working it hard blowing snow...
> 
> For 5 seconds on a driveway maybe it's at 80% power... my kubota m110gx has a power guage on the dash, sure your doing 2700 rpm, but your not actually using the hp even when it's to the floor going down the road, only on a very very steep hill will you use almost full power, most of the time the motor is just turning fast using 25-50% power... on a driveway application backing up into the driveway uses no hp, the first 15' blowing might use 20% hp and the last 30' might use 50-80% hp so really for 5 seconds s driveway...
> 
> Maybe if you hooked a huge farm plow on the thing and pulled it around for 19 hrs straight you might have a problem but I've tuned 5 trucks since 2008 and never had any trouble and I know JD Dave has his tractors ekotuned and he hasn't blown anything up... it's the typical salesman / mechanic speech... my mechanic thinks I'm nutz for tuning my trucks, I just tell him the 4-5l/100 in fuel economy I picked up will more than pay for any problems down the road and 7 years no problems touch wood... the tens of thousands I've saved in fuel over those years and the fun factor... keep telling yourself stock is best guys!


Thanks Triple. .. i did think about it that way.


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## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1980804 said:


> so what other brand are you considering?


Im not considering other brands I'm just saying premier JD isn't the best, Huron tractor is a bit better. Maybe they just don't take me seriously but I don't call for parts for fun. Even if it's not the best business decision trucks are red tractors are green. I love the look of chads new kubota and it was probably smarter than 20-30k more for a JD. The l6060 is almost identical in price to the 4066r any ways so I personally won't be buying anything orange in the next 5 years. My dad knows some of the guys higher up at JD pretty well anyways so there's a small chance I could get a discount. Not very likely that we can pull off more than 90 customers by next year though....probably be cruising the open station dream 3032e. Triple L are your trucks dpf deleted? How do you get around emissions tests? We have to do them every 2 years here.


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## SDLandscapes VT

Here the l6060 is very much cheaper than the 4066r less hp on the 6060 and missing some really cool options


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## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1980917 said:


> Here the l6060 is very much cheaper than the 4066r less hp on the 6060 and missing some really cool options


 How much cheeper? The JD interiors are far ahead of the kubota IMO and I love the new features like ethrottle.


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;1980918 said:


> How much cheeper? The JD interiors are far ahead of the kubota IMO and I love the new features like ethrottle.


Kubota has e throttle and all that stuff too

The tuner turns off the egr and dpf sensors and urea injection and everything comes up as n/a and it passes no problem... haven't done an e test yet tho as none of my trucks are 5 years old but that's how it comes up on a dpf deleted truck as I have buddies who have had to e test their new dpf deleted trucks when switching ownerships to the company for example


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1980982 said:


> Kubota has e throttle and all that stuff too
> 
> The tuner turns off the egr and dpf sensors and urea injection and everything comes up as n/a and it passes no problem... haven't done an e test yet tho as none of my trucks are 5 years old but that's how it comes up on a dpf deleted truck as I have buddies who have had to e test their new dpf deleted trucks when switching ownerships to the company for example


 Oh I see. Thought that they actually did something to check the emissions coming out. Euria injection?? I thought that's what the dpf was for you don't have to put blue juice in the new stock diesels do you!!??


----------



## Mark13

NickSnow&Mow;1980986 said:


> Oh I see. Thought that they actually did something to check the emissions coming out. Euria injection?? I thought that's what the dpf was for you don't have to put blue juice in the new stock diesels do you!!??


The newer pickups take DEF as well. 6.7 Fords and LML (2011+ duramax) take it and I know the newer Dodges (only delt with the C&C trucks) do as well but I don't know if 2011 was the year for them as well or not.

Most everyone I know tunes and deletes their pickups for fuel economy and reliability. Quite a few guys around here tune their farm equipment as well. A buddy has a T8 New Holland that has been tuned by Calibrated Power Solutions (DuramaxTuner) and a couple other guys have John Deere 9530's tuned by them as well. All of them have said it completely changes the tractor. One farm has 2 JD 9530's pulling identical rippers, the tuned tractor will walk all over the stock one. They've been very pleased with it.

Found a video of the 9530's.


----------



## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;1980804 said:


> so what other brand are you considering?


So I'm sure I'll be heavily scolded for this...other than the 4066R, I'm also considering 2 tractors sold by Cabelas.

Now; please listen before you all grill me lol.

They have two I'm looking at. One is a LM55 Turbo; fully hydrostatic, around $36-$38 with loader and bucket. Same Yanmar engine as the 4066R, same regen system.

The other is a LM75 Turbo; about $43-$45 with loader and bucket. Deutz Tier 3 engine.

Obviously Cabela's isn't manufacturing tractors; so who is? TYM out of South Korea I believe. I know they haven't been around as long as Deere so that is something to consider.

Cabela's tractors offer:

5 year warranty
all powertrain components
engine
4x4
pto
differential, transmission

parts & labor

3 years bumper to bumper, electronics

2-3 weeks down for a transmission or a major issue. They personally told me they will borrow a tractor should one of theirs go down. I'm sure Deere would as well...but that does say something about Cabela's intention with their tractors...they seem very interested in staying in the market to sell tractors.

I've been to Cabela's 3x's and driven the 2 tractors every time; no hassle. In fact, they know when I come in it's to drive it again. I always drive them after I've driven another tractor, etc. just to compare them both when they're fresh in my mind.

A month ago I drove a 4066R; then immediately went to Cabelas and drove the LM55H Turbo. I felt the Cabela's was more responsive with the foot pedal/throttle; and turned much sharper. I don't know???

Funny story about the Deere tractor. I drove to Canon Falls, MN to test the 4 series out. The dealer informs me they sold one 3 months back. He gets on the phone with the guy who purchased the 4 series; no answer. So then he calls his father-in-law (where the tractor is housed.) Father-in-law says come on out and test drive it. We get to the house; and the old man doesn't answer the door. The Deere salesman says; "we'll just go in." LOL I'm like, this guy is a farmer he's going to shoot us We get in the house, the old man is sleeping in a reclining chair. HAhaha. Then he wakes up...tells us the tractor is in the barn, and says have fun driving it. So, I'm out driving this guy's tractor; and then the father-in-law jumps into his truck and takes off! We're way out in the country...anyways I just thought it was comical.

Anyways back to the tractors...what do you guys think about the Cabelas; and please try to be objective with no personal bias.

Deere has a legend of great equipment.

Cabelas or TYM is much greener to the equipment industry.

Cabela's dealer is 3 miles from my house...Deere is about 35. Both offer great customer service...but i've been kind of blown away with Cabelas customer service. Cabelas told me if bring them a blower (Normand, etc.) they will gladly let me run it on their tractor. Only thing is now there's no snow.


----------



## Herm Witte

Our Cabelas is less than a mile away. I don't see a service department. Thats the real piece I'd worry about. Not to mention when they stop selling and servicing three to five years down the road. Final comment: is a camo tractor professional?


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## hansenslawncare

Herm Witte;1981058 said:


> Our Cabelas is less than a mile away. I don't see a service department. Thats the real piece I'd worry about. Not to mention when they stop selling and servicing three to five years down the road. Final comment: is a camo tractor professional?


Mine definitely has a service center.

Many people said the same thing when they started selling boats...still,going strong.

Very little camoactually.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;1981062 said:


> Mine definitely has a service center.
> 
> Many people said the same thing when they started selling boats...still,going strong.
> 
> Very little camoactually.


Does it say cabellas on the side? I know nothing about it but seems a bit goofy lol. It better be at least 15k cheaper.


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## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;1981064 said:


> Does it say cabellas on the side? I know nothing about it but seems a bit goofy lol. It better be at least 15k cheaper.


Does a Deere say Deere? Not sure what's goofy? I'm asking for informed unbiased opinions please.


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## SDLandscapes VT

@Hansens

this isnt the biggest thing but I think very important--what is the residual value and depreciation of a Cabela's vs. a Deere, vs. a Kubota etc.? This is part of the pricing calculation and should not be neglected. I think if you are a homeowner with a hobby farm Cabelas would be a fine option but for serious commercial use it sets a poor image. You are asking for prepay--you need to set the highest professional image.


----------



## Triple L

Resale and service is everything! Ask them if they can have a dipstick for you tomorrow! Cat can and as weird as it sounds, I've actually needed one... I bet you'll loose that 15k you saved on resale down the road, so all in all, did you save anything?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;1981111 said:


> @Hansens
> 
> this isnt the biggest thing but I think very important--what is the residual value and depreciation of a Cabela's vs. a Deere, vs. a Kubota etc.? This is part of the pricing calculation and should not be neglected. I think if you are a homeowner with a hobby farm Cabelas would be a fine option but for serious commercial use it sets a poor image. You are asking for prepay--you need to set the highest professional image.


Im no tractor expert, and not trying to be but I completely agree. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful by saying it's kinda goofy but most of the guys on here have never even heard of it, what does that say about your business? N

I don't know about where you live but in Ontario Deere has by far the best resale, kubota is second then case, newholland etc.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;1981139 said:


> Resale and service is everything! Ask them if they can have a dipstick for you tomorrow! Cat can and as weird as it sounds, I've actually needed one... I bet you'll loose that 15k you saved on resale down the road, so all in all, did you save anything?


 How is your Deere dealer? Who is it? I'd like to eventually buy from them eventually If they're any good because like I said before premier tavistock could care less about your problems.


----------



## Triple L

Premier in Ayr and elmira are great... I'd never call in for parts I always go there and everything is overnighted in for 10am the next day


----------



## RAZOR

I am thinking of selling\trading in my L5740 so I priced out a 4066r at my local Deere dealer. It just over $60000 with a loader, I figure a similar L6060 would be around $57000. 

I was impressed by the 32kp/h road speed of the 4066r and the few extra hp would be nice. On the downside the 4066 only had a catagory 1 3ph, and no HST Plus and no rear defrost. The salesman was really pushing the fancy load match,speedmatch etc. I didnt have the heart to tell him that Kubota had similar features on the L5740 over 5 year ago. It seems all the standard features on the Kubota are options on the Deere like mirrors, rear remotes, rear wiper, defrost.

I have some thinking to do of what I will be getting next.


----------



## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;1981111 said:


> @Hansens
> 
> this isnt the biggest thing but I think very important--what is the residual value and depreciation of a Cabela's vs. a Deere, vs. a Kubota etc.? This is part of the pricing calculation and should not be neglected. I think if you are a homeowner with a hobby farm Cabelas would be a fine option but for serious commercial use it sets a poor image. You are asking for prepay--you need to set the highest professional image.


I understand...and I'm not sure which tractor to buy at this point. Really; I'm trying to become educated on both tractors and make a decision based upon that.

The resale??? Great point you made; I'd be pretty hard to place a $$ sign on their resale value at this point.

Do you think the Cabela's tractors display a "lack of professionalism?" I know other snow companies that couldn't name a Kubota from a Deere or a New Holland had it not been for the name on the machine. With that in mind; customers would know much less. But still; does the Cabelas tractor appear non-professional?

I'm not asking rhetorically but sincerely. You guys all know much much more than I do with tractors...so I truly appreciate the insight.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Triple L;1981139 said:


> Resale and service is everything! Ask them if they can have a dipstick for you tomorrow! Cat can and as weird as it sounds, I've actually needed one... I bet you'll loose that 15k you saved on resale down the road, so all in all, did you save anything?


hey thanks for all the feedback man! I really value it and I want to approach this with some educated decisions.

Since the Cabelas' is so close would you mind test driving the 2 models. LM55H and LM75H and provide me with some honest feedback? That would be awesome man.

To answer your question, yes, they can have a dipstick for me the same day. I'm serious you should go in and check them out. I value your input so I'd love to hear some feedback from you on your local Cabelas.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

RAZOR

couple of notes:

I have three JD's with no "rear defroster" and as long as you have a wiper will not have issues--the cab heat has blowers for the back windows and they do a great job of keeping things clear--unless you don't have a wiper. When you break that back window with the coils in it let me know what the tab is on that. 

Not 100% on this but eHydro was first in 4x20 series and is not new with the 4066r and I believe the 4x20 even had the load match button. The cruise control is new, the higher ground speed is new, the cool move the tractor from the rear fender for implement hook up is new and exclusive. I have a Pronovost p860 inverted on mine right now and I have no issues--I will be getting a Normand N82-260 HINV for it in October as the Pronovost is a loaner. Isn't 66 HP the line for Canadian equipment where you don't have to pay tax?

Cab fit and finish, comfort, and visibility is excellent.

It's worth the money and will resell for more than the Kubota. Around here the parts and service support is better too.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;1981501 said:


> hey thanks for all the feedback man! I really value it and I want to approach this with some educated decisions.
> 
> Since the Cabelas' is so close would you mind test driving the 2 models. LM55H and LM75H and provide me with some honest feedback? That would be awesome man.
> 
> To answer your question, yes, they can have a dipstick for me the same day. I'm serious you should go in and check them out. I value your input so I'd love to hear some feedback from you on your local Cabelas.


 I don't think we have cabellas in Canada...... Only bass pro shops just so you know. My oppinoin doesn't matter much but I know forsure Deere has by far the best resale atleast in Ontario. I would say that cabellas looks pretty unprofessional mostly because absolutely nobody's heard of them, you have to be stunned if you've never heard of johndeere. It's like buying a Nissan truck (no offence to Titan owners) it's unheard of and people automatically assume it's a Chinese pos, just my oppinoin. Love your tractor Aaron I hope to have one someday trucks are red tractors are green! It seriously better be atleast 1/2 the price and equal quality to be worth the $10 resale value, also what's the warranty?


----------



## cet

NickSnow&Mow;1981513 said:


> I don't think we have cabellas in Canada...... Only bass pro shops just so you know. My oppinoin doesn't matter much but I know forsure Deere has by far the best resale atleast in Ontario. I would say that cabellas looks pretty unprofessional mostly because absolutely nobody's heard of them, you have to be stunned if you've never heard of johndeere. It's like buying a Nissan truck (no offence to Titan owners) it's unheard of and people automatically assume it's a Chinese pos, just my oppinoin. Love your tractor Aaron I hope to have one someday trucks are red tractors are green! It seriously better be atleast 1/2 the price and equal quality to be worth the $10 resale value, also what's the warranty?


Cabelas' is here. I believe there is one in Barrie.


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## NickSnow&Mow

cet;1981526 said:


> Cabelas' is here. I believe there is one in Barrie.


Oh cool didn't know that.


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## RAZOR

SDLandscapes VT;1981506 said:


> RAZOR
> 
> couple of notes:
> 
> I have three JD's with no "rear defroster" and as long as you have a wiper will not have issues--the cab heat has blowers for the back windows and they do a great job of keeping things clear--unless you don't have a wiper. When you break that back window with the coils in it let me know what the tab is on that.
> 
> Not 100% on this but eHydro was first in 4x20 series and is not new with the 4066r and I believe the 4x20 even had the load match button. The cruise control is new, the higher ground speed is new, the cool move the tractor from the rear fender for implement hook up is new and exclusive. I have a Pronovost p860 inverted on mine right now and I have no issues--I will be getting a Normand N82-260 HINV for it in October as the Pronovost is a loaner. Isn't 66 HP the line for Canadian equipment where you don't have to pay tax?
> 
> Cab fit and finish, comfort, and visibility is excellent.
> 
> It's worth the money and will resell for more than the Kubota. Around here the parts and service support is better too.


I hope that you didn't take my post as if I was putting down deere, I was not I fact as I said I am thinking of possibly getting one before next winter.

-I was not to refering to the e-hydro transmission, I was talking about the new stall guard, auto throttle, I forget the term that Deere uses. 
-I have never had a rear window break in any of the 9 Kubota tractors I have owned but yes if it did break I would think it would be an expensive piece of glass. I have never heard of this happening even in cars around here perhaps it is a colder climate where you live.
-The cat 1 hitch is not a big deal, a couple of $3 bushing would solve that issue.
- I believe that you are correct that over 60 hp there is no sales tax on tractor purchases but for some reason they tax leases. It is not a huge issue either way because a business here can deduct the sales tax they collect from the sales tax they spend on expenses at tax time.
- I would hope it would be worth more than a Kubota at resale time, it cost around $5000 to start with. lol

Again please dont think I was putting down green tractors, it just some thoughts I had after a quick visit to my local Deere dealer.


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## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;1981513 said:


> My oppinoin doesn't matter much but I know forsure Deere has by far the best resale atleast in Ontario.
> Your opinion absolutely does matter so don't think otherwise buddy.
> I would say that cabellas looks pretty unprofessional mostly because absolutely nobody's heard of them, you have to be stunned if you've never heard of johndeere.
> 
> Just because people may have not heard of them doesn't substantiate them to be unprofessional. It's like buying a Nissan truck (no offence to Titan owners) it's unheard of and people automatically assume it's a Chinese pos, just my oppinoin. Love your tractor Aaron I hope to have one someday trucks are red tractors are green! It seriously better be atleast 1/2 the price and equal quality to be worth the $10 resale value, also what's the warranty?


Again i'm looking for educating decisions/thoughts...I understand you haven't seen them; that's fine. But until you have and operated them; most input would be either thirty party informed; or uninformed. Not trying to be a jerk buddy; I'm sorry if it comes off that way. But how can someone offer informed opinions/facts, etc. if they havent seen/heard/operated the tractor...


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## SDLandscapes VT

no Razor

not putting down the orange tractors and no hard feelings

--on the back windows we have several driveways where we blow "over the shoulder" and have on more than once occasion hit the glass--it's not a matter of if but when with a new operator
--as I understand it loadmatch was always a feature of eHydro, you can stall the tractor, and I hate auto throttle for snowblowing--loader work I think it will be nice

the visibility is awesome


----------



## RAZOR

SDLandscapes VT;1981544 said:


> no Razor
> 
> not putting down the orange tractors and no hard feelings
> 
> --on the back windows we have several driveways where we blow "over the shoulder" and have on more than once occasion hit the glass--it's not a matter of if but when with a new operator
> --as I understand it loadmatch was always a feature of eHydro, you can stall the tractor, and I hate auto throttle for snowblowing--loader work I think it will be nice
> 
> the visibility is awesome


No problem, I thought you meant the lines heated the glass up so much that when the cold snow hit the window the glass would break. lol

Yeah I know the odd time the rear window gets hit from chucks of ice and I am surprised it does not break. At one time I thought about getting a open cab tractor as back up but can only imagine the cost of replacing my teeth when that ice flys up.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

RAZOR;1981546 said:


> No problem, I thought you meant the lines heated the glass up so much that when the cold snow hit the window the glass would break. lol
> 
> Yeah I know the odd time the rear window gets hit from chucks of ice and I am surprised it does not break. At one time I thought about getting a open cab tractor as back up but can only imagine the cost of replacing my teeth when that ice flys up.


 Open stations the way to go for real men! Preferably an e series so it doesn't even have a proper fuel gauge. And Ya I can see ethrottle being a pain for pto work but loader work or long cruises it would be cool.


----------



## Liberty LLC

Back again last tractor didnt pan out. I found a used Kubota L5740 hst with 1390 hours. Any one have suggestions on what inverted normand it can run size wise. My research shows engine 57 hp and at pto claimed 50hp. What do you think about a machine with that many hours? It comes with a loader bucket snow blower and broom. I looked at it and dont know much about machines but not much surface rust seems cared for.
Looking for size of inverted suggestions hoping for an 82.

Also do you think the tractor is ok to go with as primary with 1390 hours till i build up and get a new one and use this as a backup? Guessing would take 2-3 years I'm in a dense area so if it catches on I'm good.


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## ry_rock

Liberty LLC;1983443 said:


> Back again last tractor didnt pan out. I found a used Kubota L5740 hst with 1390 hours. Any one have suggestions on what inverted normand it can run size wise. My research shows engine 57 hp and at pto claimed 50hp. What do you think about a machine with that many hours? It comes with a loader bucket snow blower and broom. I looked at it and dont know much about machines but not much surface rust seems cared for.
> Looking for size of inverted suggestions hoping for an 82.
> 
> Also do you think the tractor is ok to go with as primary with 1390 hours till i build up and get a new one and use this as a backup? Guessing would take 2-3 years I'm in a dense area so if it catches on I'm good.


Should work great for you!!
Best of luck....once you pull the trigger you will wonder why you didn't do it sooner


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## hansenslawncare

Does anyone have any new videos? Aaron how is that 4066R working?


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## SDLandscapes VT

No snow = no footage and I haven't had a field in a bit


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## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;1988130 said:


> No snow = no footage and I haven't had a field in a bit


Roger that; thanks guy.

Do you have some free time tomorrow? I'd like to run a few things by you on the computer for my area...


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## SDLandscapes VT

hansenslawncare;1988136 said:


> Roger that; thanks guy.
> 
> Do you have some free time tomorrow? I'd like to run a few things by you on the computer for my area...


In and out up and down All day but text me to the 7006 # and I ll do my best


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## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;1988144 said:


> In and out up and down All day but text me to the 7006 # and I ll do my best


Will do buddy thanks!


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## R75419

Hansen I looked at the Cabelas tractors yesterday when the circular came in the paper. The price is nice on the 75hp machine but I did notice right away that it is not a power shuttle and it is also a dry disc clutch. To use the clutch that much would not last imo. We are getting a NH t 4.75 with a 92-280. We think that will match well with our typical snowfall here. Commercial lots first with a pusher on the front and resis after the snow stops. The 60 drives we do for the condo assn were a pia with our protech pullback box. Too much snow over the pb blade.


----------



## Triple L

R75419;1988243 said:


> Hansen I looked at the Cabelas tractors yesterday when the circular came in the paper. The price is nice on the 75hp machine but I did notice right away that it is not a power shuttle and it is also a dry disc clutch. To use the clutch that much would not last imo. We are getting a NH t 4.75 with a 92-280. We think that will match well with our typical snowfall here. Commercial lots first with a pusher on the front and resis after the snow stops. The 60 drives we do for the condo assn were a pia with our protech pullback box. Too much snow over the pb blade.


What plow will have have on the front? Will you remove it before going out to do driveways? That tractor sounds like it's going to be a lot longer then you think and less maneuverable then a pickup


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## R75419

Triple L;1988265 said:


> What plow will have have on the front? Will you remove it before going out to do driveways? That tractor sounds like it's going to be a lot longer then you think and less maneuverable then a pickup


Box plow on a loader. I have a buddy here with an identical setup and they love it. Drop the box and do the drives... The maneuverability is amazing with the turning radius and having individual brakes as well


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## hansenslawncare

R75419;1988243 said:


> Hansen I looked at the Cabelas tractors yesterday when the circular came in the paper. The price is nice on the 75hp machine but I did notice right away that it is not a power shuttle and it is also a dry disc clutch. To use the clutch that much would not last imo. We are getting a NH t 4.75 with a 92-280. We think that will match well with our typical snowfall here. Commercial lots first with a pusher on the front and resis after the snow stops. The 60 drives we do for the condo assn were a pia with our protech pullback box. Too much snow over the pb blade.


Thanks man I appreciate it. Quite certain I've disregarded the 75hp at Cabela's.

Just curious;did the ad mention anything about their 55 HP Turbo that's Hydrostatic?

Anyways; I think the 4066R is the one I'm leaning towards. I've considered Kubota but the Deere seems to be a better fit overall for me.


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## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;1989293 said:


> Thanks man I appreciate it. Quite certain I've disregarded the 75hp at Cabela's.
> 
> Just curious;did the ad mention anything about their 55 HP Turbo that's Hydrostatic?
> 
> Anyways; I think the 4066R is the one I'm leaning towards. I've considered Kubota but the Deere seems to be a better fit overall for me.


Go for it you'll make up for it on resale and quality! I wont have to make a decision anytime soon but im thinking about whether a jd 3 or 4 series would be the best tractor for me. The 3 would sure be nicer in the summer but a 4 would be much better for winter. Triple L do you think the 3720 or 3046r is good enough for an inverted or would it be worth it to go for a 4? Im sure ive asked you before but thanks anyways.


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## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;1989346 said:


> Go for it you'll make up for it on resale and quality! I wont have to make a decision anytime soon but im thinking about whether a jd 3 or 4 series would be the best tractor for me. The 3 would sure be nicer in the summer but a 4 would be much better for winter. Triple L do you think the 3720 or 3046r is good enough for an inverted or would it be worth it to go for a 4? Im sure ive asked you before but thanks anyways.


Thanks buddy Thumbs Up.

Man do I love this thread. I just read it in entirety for the 2nd time; took a couple days between breaks, etc; but it is very valuable.


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## hansenslawncare

Question; and this may have been on an earlier post so I'm sorry if I'm asking this again.

Has anyone ever hooked up the blower to run on the "loader" functions instead of the rear remotes?

What are the pros/cons? Obviously; cannot hook up the loader and bucket then if the blower is being used...


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## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;1992505 said:


> Question; and this may have been on an earlier post so I'm sorry if I'm asking this again.
> 
> Has anyone ever hooked up the blower to run on the "loader" functions instead of the rear remotes?
> 
> What are the pros/cons? Obviously; cannot hook up the loader and bucket then if the blower is being used...


Im no expert a idk if it possible it not....if it is a con would be that you're gonna need real long hoses and they'll be a lot easier to snag on the pto or the rear wheel or something. It's not ideal but I don't see why it couldn't work.


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## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;1992520 said:


> Im no expert a idk if it possible it not....if it is a con would be that you're gonna need real long hoses and they'll be a lot easier to snag on the pto or the rear wheel or something. It's not ideal but I don't see why it couldn't work.


Local deere dealer told me the 4 series has a harness under the wheel well for hoses; which they have installed before. for a 5-6 foot hose they have them manufactured for $36.


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## Herm Witte

hansenslawncare;1992505 said:


> Question; and this may have been on an earlier post so I'm sorry if I'm asking this again.
> 
> Has anyone ever hooked up the blower to run on the "loader" functions instead of the rear remotes?
> 
> What are the pros/cons? Obviously; cannot hook up the loader and bucket then if the blower is being used...


We have and have no issues. I would not care to have the front end loader attached when using an inverted blower anyway. You would lose some maneuverability. The pro for your question is that the loader joystick is an easier reach than the rear remote levers in some tractors.


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## hvy 1ton

hansenslawncare;1992505 said:


> Question; and this may have been on an earlier post so I'm sorry if I'm asking this again.
> 
> Has anyone ever hooked up the blower to run on the "loader" functions instead of the rear remotes?
> 
> What are the pros/cons? Obviously; cannot hook up the loader and bucket then if the blower is being used...


This would be really easy if the tractor didn't have a mid mount valve. One of my tractors has 4 rear remotes and 2 of them are hooked to a loader joystick. Not an ideal setup as i can't run 3 rear remotes and the loader at the same time, but the tractor wasn't ordered with a mid mount valve and it need a loader right away.


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## merrimacmill

NickSnow&Mow;1992520 said:


> Im no expert a idk if it possible it not....if it is a con would be that you're gonna need real long hoses and they'll be a lot easier to snag on the pto or the rear wheel or something. It's not ideal but I don't see why it couldn't work.


I tried this on an M7040 at one point, and it did not work. Ended up throwing away a few hundred dollars in hoses.

I remember that I was only able to move each function one way. I called the dealer, and they explained to me that due to some particular function of the loader valve set up, it would not let me move both functions in both directions.

I'm having a lot of trouble remembering what the specific reason was, and why the loader valve in particular on the M7040 was set up this way.... This was many years ago now. I just simply remember it did not work, and throwing out those long hoses.

Maybe someone else can chime in as to why?


----------



## RAZOR

merrimacmill;1993531 said:


> I tried this on an M7040 at one point, and it did not work. Ended up throwing away a few hundred dollars in hoses.
> 
> I remember that I was only able to move each function one way. I called the dealer, and they explained to me that due to some particular function of the loader valve set up, it would not let me move both functions in both directions.
> 
> I'm having a lot of trouble remembering what the specific reason was, and why the loader valve in particular on the M7040 was set up this way.... This was many years ago now. I just simply remember it did not work, and throwing out those long hoses.
> 
> Maybe someone else can chime in as to why?


If I recall on the L series the owners manual says it it will blow the seals in the hydraulic motor. When the loader control is turned to the right ( 3 o'clock) it is the regeneration postion. I had a blade I used the loader to operate it and to get it to angle to the right you had to push the control real hard for it to work.


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## hansenslawncare

We had a very dull winter and I can't get snow off my mind! Especially how this next winter will be the first year with a tractor/blower combo. I have been reading and following this thread for over 3 seasons now and I want to thank everyone who has contributed, this thread alone is going to propel my business and push us past our competition.

With that said; here's where I'm at:

I love the video Aaron put out, I'm thinking of something similar. My town has about 34,000 homes. the area I will be focusing on has around 1900 homes in a stretch that is roughly 1.7 miles long by 1.0 miles wide. Many more homes a 1/4 mile in every direction. This community is where most of our current snow/lawn business is. 

In these communities, there are grouped mailboxes (4-8 in a group) with newspaper boxes where we can legally place fliers. 

Google snow service, snow plowing, etc. in my area and we come up 1st, I believe every time. 

So...what I'm asking is what other approaches would you take to gain customers? We will flier heavy, we rank well on Google...what else? Wholesale to other businesses?

There is not a tractor/blower combo in my area, we will be the first. Right now we do about 100 drives per snow storm; but most are too far to drive for one tractor. In this community I mentioned above; we currently have about 25 drives (in the 1900 home area) that a tractor will service.

My goal is to have at least 75 more; for a total of 100 drives the first year. My plan is to print professional door hangers/fliers, and deliver them once per month; July-August. Then, September up until winter, deliver them 2x's per month. 

FYI: One person in a car can hit all 1900 homes in about 12 hours max. So, in one weekend every house could easily be directly targeted.

Anything else??? Thanks for the help!


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## CAT 245ME

In this day and age social media is the most important tool, having a website and a Facebook business page is a must have. Radio advertising is something I'd look into.

When it comes to flyers, honestly I don't even look at them when I receive them, they go straight into the recycling box. I myself tried the flyer route many years ago, received one call and still didn't get that one,lol.

I myself will be going the tractor/blower route for the upcoming season, I've already purchased a new green Normand N92-280 INV from my JD dealer Green Diamond Equipment and am looking at a couple nice low hour 6430's. I've been wanting to do this since the mid 90's when I was 15, long before plowsite and the internet.


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## s_aloisio

CAT 245ME;2001613 said:


> In this day and age social media is the most important tool, having a website and a Facebook business page is a must have. Radio advertising is something I'd look into.
> 
> When it comes to flyers, honestly I don't even look at them when I receive them, they go straight into the recycling box. I myself tried the flyer route many years ago, received one call and still didn't get that one,lol.
> 
> I myself will be going the tractor/blower route for the upcoming season, I've already purchased a new green Normand N92-280 INV from my JD dealer Green Diamond Equipment and am looking at a couple nice low hour 6430's. I've been wanting to do this since the mid 90's when I was 15, long before plowsite and the internet.


I disagree, for residential, the majority of my clients are senior citizens and they don't use much social media. For the most part door hangers direct mail fliers (not bundled in the newspaper) and of course driveway markers have had the most responce.


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## NickSnow&Mow

s_aloisio;2001671 said:


> I disagree, for residential, the majority of my clients are senior citizens and they don't use much social media. For the most part door hangers direct mail fliers (not bundled in the newspaper) and of course driveway markers have had the most responce.


 Agreed. I have had a business Facebook, Instagram, website, and yellow pages for almost a year now....and guess how many customers I've gotten from them? 0. Door hangers are where it's at.


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## CAT 245ME

s_aloisio;2001671 said:


> I disagree, for residential, the majority of my clients are senior citizens and they don't use much social media. For the most part door hangers direct mail fliers (not bundled in the newspaper) and of course driveway markers have had the most responce.


Trust me, seniors are catching on.

Most of the new drives I pick up come from heavy construction company's, often times these company's receive numerous calls from residential and they don't want to bother with them, a lot of these company's I've gotten to know and they pass my contact information onto them.

I also during plowing season, If I see a home that is being cleared in my area, I wright down the address and visit them early in the fall, from time to time you will get them.

I personally know one local paving contractor that when they have a new drive to pave, they go door to door and talk with people face to face to let them know they will be in the area and will give them a discount. This has worked very well for them, they often times have more drives than they can handle in a season.


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## ehlingerlawn.co

*Time to start thinking driveways!*

It's time to start thinking about winter... Have you lined up your advertising, your door hangers, your equipment ? 
We have new Normand blowers available, contact me to get more information on our preseason specials!

Jason 763-202-1088


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## Mark Oomkes

ehlingerlawn.co;2006194 said:


> It's time to start thinking about winter... Have you lined up your advertising, your door hangers, your equipment ?
> We have new Normand blowers available, contact me to get more information on our preseason specials!
> 
> Jason 763-202-1088


That's a long drive for me, but you never know.

I can't get an answer from the distributor as to who my Normand dealer is anymore. And if they switch dealers, I will have to either purchase from an out of area dealer or a different brand.


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## NickSnow&Mow

ehlingerlawn.co;2006194 said:


> It's time to start thinking about winter... Have you lined up your advertising, your door hangers, your equipment ?
> We have new Normand blowers available, contact me to get more information on our preseason specials!
> 
> Jason 763-202-1088


 Hey, how much for a 74" inverted all poly edges with the back scraper (not hydraulic) in JD green?


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## fireball

new Holland blue scrapes better. Everyone knows that


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## hansenslawncare

*4066r - l6060*

I'm really twisted between the two tractors, 4066R or L6060.

The Kubota is priced much more attractive. But the dealer I've been talking to claims an 82" Norman is too heavy for the Kubota...

thoughts???


----------



## Neige

I know of many contractors who are using the Kubota 6060 with the Normand 82 inverted and no problems.




Thumbs Up


----------



## hansenslawncare

Neige;2011365 said:


> I know of many contractors who are using the Kubota 6060 with the Normand 82 inverted and no problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thumbs Up


Thanks Paul! What do you think between the 6060's and the 4066R?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2011368 said:


> Thanks Paul! What do you think between the 6060's and the 4066R?


4066! When I got quotes they where basically the same price. I just like JD so that's what I'd get but I'm sure the kubota is just as good. I gave up on the 4066r and l6060 dream because they don't have mid ptos for summer work which is a big deal to me. They're also a little big for the kind of summer work I do. 3046r or used 3720 and 74" inverted Normand or pronovost is the way to go for me. Hey Paul I haven't heard from you since last week, just wanted to remind you if you have time to call me please.


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## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;2011369 said:


> 4066! When I got quotes they where basically the same price. I just like JD so that's what I'd get but I'm sure the kubota is just as good. I gave up on the 4066r and l6060 dream because they don't have mid ptos for summer work which is a big deal to me. They're also a little big for the kind of summer work I do. 3046r or used 3720 and 74" inverted Normand or pronovost is the way to go for me. Hey Paul I haven't heard from you since last week, just wanted to remind you if you have time to call me please.


I was quoted $48,000 for the 4066R; and $39,800 for the L6060.


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## Neige

hansenslawncare;2011368 said:


> Thanks Paul! What do you think between the 6060's and the 4066R?


I think either or will work out for you. I am partial to Kubota, but by all means does not mean it is the better tractor. I have had great success with Kubota and my dealer always gave me exceptional service. I know I have not given you a real answer, I would say go with your gut, either way you win.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2011370 said:


> I was quoted $48,000 for the 4066R; and $39,800 for the L6060.


Wow I'm surprised. A 4066 is more like 60 in Canada with options.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Neige;2011372 said:


> I think either or will work out for you. I am partial to Kubota, but by all means does not mean it is the better tractor. I have had great success with Kubota and my dealer always gave me exceptional service. I know I have not given you a real answer, I would say go with your gut, either way you win.


Thanks Paul. What has your experience been with the Regen systems? Or is that just on the smaller tractors?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2011383 said:


> Thanks Paul. What has your experience been with the Regen systems? Or is that just on the smaller tractors?


what are regen systems?


----------



## ehlingerlawn.co

Are you able to order the Kubota with the snow tires?


----------



## Neige

ehlingerlawn.co;2011386 said:


> Are you able to order the Kubota with the snow tires?


Yes we can get the Kubota with stock snow tires. There were some issues the first year with the regen have not heard of any on last year's models. Have your Kubota dealer call me and I will get him in direct contact with the Nokian rep.


----------



## Triple L

My m110gx has been great, usually about 2 or 3 plows per regen... we keep it idled up to 1200rpm the whole night and found it really reduced the soot buildup taking off from 700rpm vs 1200 every pass... funny how you can buy a brand new 110hp tractor for the price of these 60hp units in Canada... soo overpriced


----------



## hansenslawncare

Triple L;2011392 said:


> My m110gx has been great, usually about 2 or 3 plows per regen... we keep it idled up to 1200rpm the whole night and found it really reduced the soot buildup taking off from 700rpm vs 1200 every pass... funny how you can buy a brand new 110hp tractor for the price of these 60hp units in Canada... soo overpriced


Well I'll ship one up to you...hahaha. sorry not really funny how much more expensive it is up there for you guys.

One thing that bummed me out; and I just noticed this, is the L6060 tops out at just under 17 mph; the 4066R Deere tops out at 20.

3 mph...am I splitting hairs?


----------



## Triple L

You'll probably never be able to run full speed I think your splitting hairs


----------



## hansenslawncare

Triple L;2011401 said:


> You'll probably never be able to run full speed I think your splitting hairs


Kind of what I was thinking too.

Also, I noticed the Kubota has a little larger displacement, less Horse power but more displacement. I heard this old saying, "no replacement for displacement."

What do you think about that? The two tractors looks pretty similar on spec sheets...


----------



## Triple L

Im not sure if the kubota is turbo or not, I'd always take turbo over non turbo


----------



## Liberty LLC

Paul is that a new name for the family business or someone else you know nice fleet either way!


----------



## Neige

No no that's just another crazy Canadian doing thousands of resi drives.Thumbs Up


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2011403 said:


> Im not sure if the kubota is turbo or not, I'd always take turbo over non turbo


 The Deere is turbo the kubota isn't. Looked at the specs the other day. On the 3s and 4s the regen is like every 80-100hrs. Is it a lot more on big tractors?


----------



## Triple L

Ha, maybe 80-100 hrs doing tractor chores like pulling a grain buggy or pulling a small plow, but plowing snow is a lot different and a lot more idling and stop and go and 0 throttle to full throttle instead of a more consistent farm life


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2011570 said:


> Ha, maybe 80-100 hrs doing tractor chores like pulling a grain buggy or pulling a small plow, but plowing snow is a lot different and a lot more idling and stop and go and 0 throttle to full throttle instead of a more consistent farm life


 Yeah I guess that's true and they do see quite a bit of idling. I don't know about you guys but when I'm blowing she's always full throttle all the way. I'm sure that's gotta burn some of that crap out of there.


----------



## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;2011488 said:


> The Deere is turbo the kubota isn't. Looked at the specs the other day. On the 3s and 4s the regen is like every 80-100hrs. Is it a lot more on big tractors?


Not sure what the specs say; but talked to a Kubota Dealer who claims the Kubota is turbo...but you would think the specs would be listed properly on their websites???


----------



## Triple L

hansenslawncare;2011649 said:


> Not sure what the specs say; but talked to a Kubota Dealer who claims the Kubota is turbo...but you would think the specs would be listed properly on their websites???


It says turbo on the brochure... I'm sure it's turbo


----------



## Triple L

http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://w...WxgALc&usg=AFQjCNE5BBV1jcgG_H3BcHXR_12iMsXOBg


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Sorry guys I'm sure that's right. Probably was whatever the kubota equivalent to the 3720 is I was looking at. Thought it was the l6060.


----------



## Triple L

That would be the l3560 as its the only one that can get down to a 59" overall width and your right it's naturally aspirated


----------



## dycproperties

I have a 6060 and it has a turbo I bought it last fall and love it. We run a 72" mk Martin inverted and it handles it with ease. I Like the front pto we use it with the Kubota sweeper to do parking lots in the spring and it works great for that too.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Big JD fan so Hate to bring it up but like dycproperties said the l6060 can have a mid pto, the 4066r can't. Big kubota advantage for a lot of people. That's the main thing that turned me off the 4 series and I'm sure why they sell 10x as many 3rs as 4rs.


----------



## Triple L

Why do you need mid pto? Cutting grass with a 3720 is the furthest thing from realistic, a 52 or 60" deck on your walker will dust the thing... I can't see a useful need for mid pto other than running a sweeper but even still run a hydraulic one off a 3rd remote on the front end loader


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2011733 said:


> Why do you need mid pto? Cutting grass with a 3720 is the furthest thing from realistic, a 52 or 60" deck on your walker will dust the thing... I can't see a useful need for mid pto other than running a sweeper but even still run a hydraulic one off a 3rd remote on the front end loader


 Sweeper was one thing that could possibly be useful. Aerator on big properties would be sweet too. I know that my Walker with a big deck would kill it but here's the thing, I either have to switch out my mulching deck once a week to do commercials, which will probably happen next year if I get enouph big properties. What happens when I get a part time helper in a couple years so I'd want to have two mowers. It's either a 3-4k for a 72" deck or 12-20k for another zturn.


----------



## Triple L

Aerator doesn't require pto to run, what's wrong with a 3pt hitch aerator? If your really gonna use the tractor to mow, just get a rear mount finish mower, but trust me, unless your mowing 10+ acres per property, the tractor is a complete waste, soo heavy and awkward, you'll spend more time trimming then you save cutting with the 42" walker lol

Ps, you have no idea how tippy a 3720 is, it's gotta be dead flat or its not getting cut


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2011735 said:


> Aerator doesn't require pto to run, what's wrong with a 3pt hitch aerator? If your really gonna use the tractor to mow, just get a rear mount finish mower, but trust me, unless your mowing 10+ acres per property, the tractor is a complete waste, soo heavy and awkward, you'll spend more time trimming then you save cutting with the 42" walker lol
> 
> Ps, you have no idea how tippy a 3720 is, it's gotta be dead flat or its not getting cut


Yeah I'm sure you're right you have one. Definetly not cutting 10 acres. You're probably right about not needing one but what about resale value? You rarely see a 4 around here but the 3s are everywhere. As far as I know you can't run a 3rd function on the loader if you already have 2 rear remotes. A 4066 is also like 60gs. Too much for a guy like me. They're also very hard to find used.


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;2011738 said:


> Yeah I'm sure you're right you have one. Definetly not cutting 10 acres. You're probably right about not needing one but what about resale value? You rarely see a 4 around here but the 3s are everywhere. As far as I know you can't run a 3rd function on the loader if you already have 2 rear remotes. A 4066 is also like 60gs. Too much for a guy like me. They're also very hard to find used.


Sure you can, I have 4 rear remotes on myn, and hoses to run two of them up to the front to run a plow with 2 functions and still run 2 functions on the rear...


----------



## Triple L

If buying brand new you'd be way better off buying a 5 series then the over priced compacts... a 3046r is about 52k brand new when I was looking the other day with a loader... insane if you ask me


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2011740 said:


> Sure you can, I have 4 rear remotes on myn, and hoses to run two of them up to the front to run a plow with 2 functions and still run 2 functions on the rear...


by 4 do you mean 4 hoses or 8 hoses? Not sure if you consider one "remote" a coupler for one hose or both lines?


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;2011742 said:


> by 4 do you mean 4 hoses or 8 hoses? Not sure if you consider one "remote" a coupler for one hose or both lines?


1 remote is 2 hoses, 4 remotes is 8 hoses


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2011741 said:


> If buying brand new you'd be way better off buying a 5 series then the over priced compacts... a 3046r is about 52k brand new when I was looking the other day with a loader... insane if you ask me


Ok thanks. It is insane pricing but where am I supposed to put this ginormous tractor? Sure isn't going to sit in my driveway and I can't drive to go get it. Sorry for all the questions but about the hydraulics Am I right by saying that you have 2 levers in the cab controlling 2 of the rear remotes and you also have a switch that diverts the flow from the front two to the other rear two with the loader joystick? Im sure your right A 5 is a better deal but too many problems come with it right now. As much as I talk about it the biggest tractor I could buy new right now upfront is a 1025r lol.


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;2011745 said:


> Ok thanks. It is insane pricing but where am I supposed to put this ginormous tractor? Sure isn't going to sit in my driveway and I can't drive to go get it. Sorry for all the questions but about the hydraulics Am I right by saying that you have 2 levers in the cab controlling 2 of the rear remotes and you also have a switch that diverts the flow from the front two to the other rear two with the loader joystick? Im sure your right A 5 is a better deal but too many problems come with it right now. As much as I talk about it the biggest tractor I could buy new right now upfront is a 1025r lol.


Your right about the hydraulics, the only thing is a 3720 wount fit in your parents garage unless it has an 8' tall door, something to think about, if a 3 series fits a 5 series fits too


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2011764 said:


> Your right about the hydraulics, the only thing is a 3720 wount fit in your parents garage unless it has an 8' door, something to think about, if a 3 series fits a 5 series fits too


 Yeah both are no good for the garage. I have to take off my light bar from the rops of the 3032 to fit in the garage with about an inch to spare. No cab tractor will make it. Last winter she sat inside about half the time and outside the other half. I completely understand with what you're saying. A 5 is so much more value for the price. Don't know exactly what they go for but I know a 5e isn't much more than a 4r. As much as I agree with you that compacts are overpriced I don't see a full sized tractor working out. First thing is I bet you there's no way I could get away with a tractor that big sitting outside my house all the time someone would forsure complain. A 4 is about as big as I could go. What I don't want to happen is what we've talked about before now I have to rent a spot to park it and everything + the higher maintenance costs + the higher fuel use + the geared transmission which is a lot more of a pain than a two pedal hydro. I know it's much more efficient and is a better value than the 3 I really don't think it could work out. If I jump into buying something that big right away I don't want to be surprised with all the added costs big tires etc. I know roughly what it costs to keep a 3046 or 3720 around. I also bet that I'd have to get more insurance for a bigger tractor. I know that thinking the tractor will even pay for it self in the summer is a bit unrealistic but a 5 could never even touch a lawn or move topsoil on a property. I appreciate your help and I get what you're saying but I think a whole lot of things have got to get worked out before that happens.


----------



## Triple L

You should try talking your dad into letting you install 8' doors in the garage and be done with it, or if you could build a nice 10x16' shed in the back then your laughing. Regardless of a 3,4 or 5 series tractor


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2011859 said:


> You should try talking your dad into letting you install 8' doors in the garage and be done with it, or if you could build a nice 10x16' shed in the back then your laughing. Regardless of a 3,4 or 5 series tractor


 Even if I had an 8ft door it wouldn't clear the top of my garage. Already have the biggest legal shed in Stratford and not a chance I could fit a 5 in it. Barely enouph room to drive down the side of my house without going on the neighbours property with the 3032. Back when I was using a lawn tractor for snow I kept it in my shed and it destroyed all the grass all the way from my shed to my driveway.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2011859 said:


> You should try talking your dad into letting you install 8' doors in the garage and be done with it, or if you could build a nice 10x16' shed in the back then your laughing. Regardless of a 3,4 or 5 series tractor


 Shed is 18x20 and I can tell you that there's no chance a 5 series would fit in there man. About 1/4 of it is a little closet storage thing and the work bench and tool boxes take up some more space. If it had an 8ft door than maybe an older 5e could fit. It seems like recently most have the models have gotten bigger? The new 5s look like the old 6430s and the old 5s are barely any bigger than a 4,


----------



## Triple L

18x20 is a lot bigger then the legal size of 107 Sq feet before permit...


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2011970 said:


> 18x20 is a lot bigger then the legal size of 107 Sq feet before permit...


Im quite sure it's legal I remember the inspectors coming when it was built. I guess part of that 18x20 concrete pad is the over hang when you walk in.


----------



## s_aloisio

Has anyone hooked a plow up to the loader control on an l6060. I'm not sure how the "regen" position 3 o'clock on the joystick, is going to affect plow operation.


----------



## dycproperties

I don't have a plow but our sweeper does up down and angle with the joystick


----------



## s_aloisio

dycproperties;2012237 said:


> I don't have a plow but our sweeper does up down and angle with the joystick


No issue angling to the right, in what would be hydraulic regen?


----------



## hansenslawncare

*Driveway Markers with Advertising*

Where do you guys find driveway markers like Paul has? I'd like to have our name and number on them.

Thanks!


----------



## Neige

hansenslawncare;2015393 said:


> Where do you guys find driveway markers like Paul has? I'd like to have our name and number on them.
> 
> Thanks!


Call me at 514-608-4675 I can get you in touch with Andre the guy who makes them.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Neige;2018253 said:


> Call me at 514-608-4675 I can get you in touch with Andre the guy who makes them.


Hey Paul; sorry I just got around to responding to your post.

I'll give you a call tomorrow; thanks!


----------



## excav8ter

Starting to think snow again... picked up a sencond tractor/blower.... 2010 JD 5101E with a Shoule S4 92 inverted and an 8-11 Blizzard up front. Going to sell the Blizzard plow if anyone is looking.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Different people have different was to service residential properties, but I will never understand this concept. I see quite a few contractors do this though.


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## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME;2024720 said:


> Different people have different was to service residential properties, but I will never understand this concept. I see quite a few contractors do this though.


This is exactly what I do with a 30hp tractor. It is slightly less efficient than an inverted but has some key advantages. #1 is with a small tractor you can always get through the snow no matter what since you have a rear blower, #2 since you have a pusher/puller you can do commercial work 10x faster than an inverted could. #3 is you can blow back piles with the normal blower. I think this is silly on a 75 hp plus tractor.


----------



## Enzo

Well I pulled the trigger and purchased a Kubota L6060 with a Normand 82" blower for this coming season. My ads are already live on facebook, google adwords, and craigslist. The local papers will start the end of this week and go all the way to December with weekly ads. I am also going to push door hangers with my employees since the grass isn't growing to much after work we will be walking a lot and hanging them up.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Right on buddy; great choice! We made the same exact purchase; w/ defrost kit in back; and wipers/juice. Also have a pusher up front...can't wait!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Mind me asking what made you decide on the kubota? They look like great little tractors. I was checking one out at the farm show yesterday and my only complaints where that the "treadle" pedal sucks compared to the JD twin touch, the forward visibility could be better and the cab quality/design wasn't nearly as good as the JD IMO. Not bashing your ride at all I'm sure you'll be very happy with it! Just my thoughts and wondering what made you choose it over a 4066r. Thanks.


----------



## edgeair

NickSnow&Mow;2027614 said:


> Mind me asking what made you decide on the kubota? They look like great little tractors. I was checking one out at the farm show yesterday and my only complaints where that the "treadle" pedal sucks compared to the JD twin touch, the forward visibility could be better and the cab quality/design wasn't nearly as good as the JD IMO. Not bashing your ride at all I'm sure you'll be very happy with it! Just my thoughts and wondering what made you choose it over a 4066r. Thanks.


Everybody is going to have their own preferences on all the mentioned criteria. To my knowledge, you can't get nokian tires from Deere without some swapping (extra $$$). Rear defrost is a big one, not sure that Deere has made the jump on that. Mid PTO might be a difference. I'm just starting the decision process too on this class for another machine so I'd be interested to hear some feedback too.


----------



## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;2027614 said:


> Mind me asking what made you decide on the kubota? They look like great little tractors. I was checking one out at the farm show yesterday and my only complaints where that the "treadle" pedal sucks compared to the JD twin touch, the forward visibility could be better and the cab quality/design wasn't nearly as good as the JD IMO. Not bashing your ride at all I'm sure you'll be very happy with it! Just my thoughts and wondering what made you choose it over a 4066r. Thanks.


At the end of the day; the price difference was only about $5-6k. For me it wasn't enough to sway my decision on such a large purchase.

My reason for choosing the Kubota was that I liked the cab set-up better. Had a factory installed swivel seat. I felt the Kubota had more torque off the line. It has another mode within each range (called HTS I believe.) Within each range (high, medium, low) you can switch this HTS mode to either Turtle or Rabbit. Very easy like a turn signal switch. For me that seemed to offer a lot more torque vs the 4066R; especially in the high range.

The 4066R high range lagged a bit from the start. The L6060, with the HTS mode; did not have the lag. These were both brand new machines...

I liked the visibility better in the Kubota. Not sure why but I did. Again; the Kubota came factory installed with a swivel seat; this was nice when backing up and looking over my shoulder.

Most of all though was my Kubota dealer was great! Constantly checked up on me while I was still deciding between the two tractors; emails, calls; etc. Kubota dealer was much nicer; and easier to work with. Not saying the Deere dealer wasn't; in fact he brought us two mowers to demo for a couple days. But; at the end of it, I felt that the service I was getting from the Kubota dealer surpassed that of the Deere dealer...

Anyways; can't wait for snow!!!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2027674 said:


> At the end of the day; the price difference was only about $5-6k. For me it wasn't enough to sway my decision on such a large purchase.
> 
> My reason for choosing the Kubota was that I liked the cab set-up better. Had a factory installed swivel seat. I felt the Kubota had more torque off the line. It has another mode within each range (called HTS I believe.) Within each range (high, medium, low) you can switch this HTS mode to either Turtle or Rabbit. Very easy like a turn signal switch. For me that seemed to offer a lot more torque vs the 4066R; especially in the high range.
> 
> The 4066R high range lagged a bit from the start. The L6060, with the HTS mode; did not have the lag. These were both brand new machines...
> 
> I liked the visibility better in the Kubota. Not sure why but I did. Again; the Kubota came factory installed with a swivel seat; this was nice when backing up and looking over my shoulder.
> 
> Most of all though was my Kubota dealer was great! Constantly checked up on me while I was still deciding between the two tractors; emails, calls; etc. Kubota dealer was much nicer; and easier to work with. Not saying the Deere dealer wasn't; in fact he brought us two mowers to demo for a couple days. But; at the end of it, I felt that the service I was getting from the Kubota dealer surpassed that of the Deere dealer...
> 
> Anyways; can't wait for snow!!!


Well I'm sure you'll be happy with it. I'm surprised you say you liked the visibility better, I couldnt see over the end of the hood in the kubota and I'm 6,3. How many weights do you plan on running on the front to balance that 82"? Not sure what you're used to but I think I'd have a very hard time getting used to the hst pedal. The twin touch pedals on the JD are so nice, I don't know who the idiot was that thought it was a good idea to move your ankle like that or even worse lift your entire leg. 5-8k more than the JD!? Seriously? Here the JD is 5k more + the kubota has a 20% msrp discount for landscape Ontario members so that's 10k cheaper right there. I can sure feel ya on the dealer situation, JD dealers here absolutely suck.


----------



## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;2027684 said:


> Well I'm sure you'll be happy with it. I'm surprised you say you liked the visibility better, I couldnt see over the end of the hood in the kubota and I'm 6,3. How many weights do you plan on running on the front to balance that 82"? Not sure what you're used to but I think I'd have a very hard time getting used to the hst pedal. The twin touch pedals on the JD are so nice, I don't know who the idiot was that thought it was a good idea to move your ankle like that or even worse lift your entire leg. 5-8k more than the JD!? Seriously? Here the JD is 5k more + the kubota has a 20% msrp discount for landscape Ontario members so that's 10k cheaper right there. I can sure feel ya on the dealer situation, JD dealers here absolutely suck.


I'm sorry; I must have mis-typed. The Kubota was about $5-6k less. The kubota also has the other pedal; for reverse. Essentially the same thing. But yeah; I don't like the rocker pedal deal; I just use the other pedal. Up front I'll have the loader and pusher on. I know a lot of guys don't like that; but I'm using mine on our small commercial lots as well; and I don't really want to take it off after the commercials to blow drives.

In our town there are a lot of homes! but still plenty of room on the streets etc.; that the loader and pusher won't limit my turning around etc. Kind of hard to explain; you'd have to see it to understand.

Good luck this year buddy!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2027688 said:


> I'm sorry; I must have mis-typed. The Kubota was about $5-6k less. The kubota also has the other pedal; for reverse. Essentially the same thing. But yeah; I don't like the rocker pedal deal; I just use the other pedal. Up front I'll have the loader and pusher on. I know a lot of guys don't like that; but I'm using mine on our small commercial lots as well; and I don't really want to take it off after the commercials to blow drives.
> 
> In our town there are a lot of homes! but still plenty of room on the streets etc.; that the loader and pusher won't limit my turning around etc. Kind of hard to explain; you'd have to see it to understand.
> 
> Good luck this year buddy!


 You too man. I know what you mean for sure. I think a metal pless revers max on the loader or subframe mount agrimaxx would be awesome on this size tractor. There's another pedal for reverse? Or do you mean the forward one connected to the pedal?


----------



## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;2027702 said:


> You too man. I know what you mean for sure. I think a metal pless revers max on the loader or subframe mount agrimaxx would be awesome on this size tractor. There's another pedal for reverse? Or do you mean the forward one connected to the pedal?


There's a whole nother pedal. There's the main pedal for forward/reverse. But there's also an additional pedal just for reverse.

I have a 8-16 pusher/expandable box for the front. Not by Metal pless though...maybe next year.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2027705 said:


> There's a whole nother pedal. There's the main pedal for forward/reverse. But there's also an additional pedal just for reverse.
> 
> I have a 8-16 pusher/expandable box for the front. Not by Metal pless though...maybe next year.


 Yeah that sounds like an awesome set up. Not saying metal pless is the only way to go, but they sure make a nice plow.


----------



## Enzo

How are you guys doing with your marketing what do you find is the best ?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

I only have 13 customers signed up... 1250 door hangers are out and 1250 to go. Id like to have 50. People just don't want to think about snow right now. How about you guys?


----------



## Broncslefty7

i think its still too early, i have been on tv for 3 weeks and radio for 2 weeks, along with 3k mailers. i havnt gotten anything yet.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Broncslefty7;2028874 said:


> i think its still too early, i have been on tv for 3 weeks and radio for 2 weeks, along with 3k mailers. i havnt gotten anything yet.


not 1? How much are you charging?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Slow, but steady. 

Just picked up another site condo/HOA. 80 driveways, I'm sure we won't get all of them, but I know we'll get some.

Ordered another blower today, so I hope it picks up more.


----------



## Broncslefty7

i have been getting pricing of 16-20k on pronovost blowers, it seems a little bit more than what i have seen on here.


----------



## edgeair

Broncslefty7;2029209 said:


> i have been getting pricing of 16-20k on pronovost blowers, it seems a little bit more than what i have seen on here.


That seems way high, are those PXPL blowers or inverted?


----------



## Broncslefty7

*inverted*

they are inverted prices.


----------



## edgeair

Broncslefty7;2029240 said:


> they are inverted prices.


Unless you are getting them gold plated, I think you should be under $10K. Maybe I am wrong, but from what I have heard from another guy recently that bought one and online, thats where you should be even if you get them loaded.

I am actually waiting on an up to date quote for a Provonost, hoping to hear today. I have received pricing on some Normand blowers also and they are nowhere near what you mentioned.


----------



## Broncslefty7

thats what i said to the guy. it was a pronovost P-920-IV, without the hydraulic blade.


----------



## Broncslefty7

i have never purchased an AG tractor before but i got a quote for a machine this morning from kubota. 

m9960HSDC-12 89 pto HP. $54,400.00

sound good?


----------



## edgeair

Broncslefty7;2029298 said:


> i have never purchased an AG tractor before but i got a quote for a machine this morning from kubota.
> 
> m9960HSDC-12 89 pto HP. $54,400.00
> 
> sound good?


Hmmmm, well I am north of the border and right now our dollar is low compared to yours so its hard for me to say. That sounds high, and depending on the options for that tractor that have been spec'd in, that looks like it is around MSRP which isn't good. I don't know about Kubota in the US, but here I usually get quoted around 10-15% less than msrp.

I just did a build on the Kubota US website and with options that I consider common for snow removal (front weights, wiper kit, defog kit, 2nd SCV, am/fm radio) I came up with an msrp of 54900. I'd expect to be able to buy that tractor for around $50 or usually less based on my experience here.

If you haven't already, check out tractorbynet, often they have guys on the forums discussing pricing for various models. My advice may not be accurate in the US.


----------



## Broncslefty7

yeah i just spoke with a dealer about the l6060 and the m9960 and said to definently opt for the 9960 with the 24 speed transmission.

however something i was unaware of, the smaller machine is automatic and the larger machine is manual. i did not know that.


----------



## edgeair

Broncslefty7;2029314 said:


> yeah i just spoke with a dealer about the l6060 and the m9960 and said to definently opt for the 9960 with the 24 speed transmission.
> 
> however something i was unaware of, the smaller machine is automatic and the larger machine is manual. i did not know that.


I think its all going to depend on what you want to do with this machine you are buying. I know some guys are loving the L6060 size for driveways because it is a hydro transmission and its size is not too big to get into spots. It is the easiest for the back and forth you do when blowing snow from driveways as all you have to do is push on a different part of the pedal. The standard as you know is a little more involved, and you can't feather your speed as easily or without excess wear and tear on a clutch.

The 9960 size of tractor will be better for larger properties and will have a faster road gear for running between sites if they are further apart.

Both have plenty of power for residential snow blowing applications.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Broncslefty7;2029209 said:


> i have been getting pricing of 16-20k on pronovost blowers, it seems a little bit more than what i have seen on here.


Depending on options, you're in the ballpark.

So we had 5 calls from homeowners in the HOA just today. And 1 commercial.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Broncslefty7;2029298 said:


> i have never purchased an AG tractor before but i got a quote for a machine this morning from kubota.
> 
> m9960HSDC-12 89 pto HP. $54,400.00
> 
> sound good?


Sounds cheap. I get quoted that for a JD 3046r. An l6060 will run you atleast 45. I'd highly recommend getting the hydro. I haven't done snow with a geared tractor, but from occasionally driving them I have no desire to plow with one. Does the 9060 atleast have something like a powrreverser?


----------



## CAT 245ME

Broncslefty7;2029261 said:


> thats what i said to the guy. it was a pronovost P-920-IV, without the hydraulic blade.


I paid 8k CDN for a new left over Normand N92INV 280 in May with no rear blade.

Here is a new one listed in Ontario.

http://www.agdealer.com/pages/view-...EQUIPVIEW&listpage=/pages/index.cfm&ID=337915


----------



## edgeair

Mark Oomkes;2029360 said:


> Depending on options, you're in the ballpark.
> 
> So we had 5 calls from homeowners in the HOA just today. And 1 commercial.


Provonost fully loaded with back blade just came in at $11,500 CDN, I just about choked even at that. Been quoted 8-9400 for a Normand recently depending on size and options.


----------



## edgeair

NickSnow&Mow;2029431 said:


> Sounds cheap. I get quoted that for a JD 3046r. An l6060 will run you atleast 45. I'd highly recommend getting the hydro. I haven't done snow with a geared tractor, but from occasionally driving them I have no desire to plow with one. Does the 9060 atleast have something like a powrreverser?


Big difference between a USD price and a CAD price right now. Kubota is moderated somewhat by the fact that its the yen, but JD I think follows the US/CA dollar spread fairly close.

You'll be at around $50k for a fully loaded L6060 with Nokians etc. Theres a lot more tractor there than a 3046r IMO.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

edgeair;2029487 said:


> Big difference between a USD price and a CAD price right now. Kubota is moderated somewhat by the fact that its the yen, but JD I think follows the US/CA dollar spread fairly close.
> 
> You'll be at around $50k for a fully loaded L6060 with Nokians etc. Theres a lot more tractor there than a 3046r IMO.


Agreed, depending on what you're doing with it though.


----------



## cet

edgeair;2029346 said:


> I think its all going to depend on what you want to do with this machine you are buying. I know some guys are loving the L6060 size for driveways because it is a hydro transmission and its size is not too big to get into spots. It is the easiest for the back and forth you do when blowing snow from driveways as all you have to do is push on a different part of the pedal. The standard as you know is a little more involved, and you can't feather your speed as easily or without excess wear and tear on a clutch.
> 
> The 9960 size of tractor will be better for larger properties and will have a faster road gear for running between sites if they are further apart.
> 
> Both have plenty of power for residential snow blowing applications.


I am a novice when it comes to tractors but I was under the impression that a wet clutch was bullet proof.


----------



## edgeair

cet;2029500 said:


> I am a novice when it comes to tractors but I was under the impression that a wet clutch was bullet proof.


They are much better than the old school dry clutch, but are still a clutch.

I've had some discussions with a few mechanics on the topic (I caught one of my guys using road gear to blow snow in driveways by feathering the clutch to get the slow speed he needed - clutch was never the same after that). The consensus seems to be that its still mechanical and should still not be treated like a speed control. There are still plates and moving parts, not a lot unlike an auto tranny from what I understand.


----------



## NSR

Hi everyone, 

Great forum..

Anyone using back up cams on there tractor blower setup?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

edgeair;2029478 said:


> Provonost fully loaded with back blade just came in at $11,500 CDN, I just about choked even at that. Been quoted 8-9400 for a Normand recently depending on size and options.


Apparently dealers/distributors are getting very rich off us Americans.


----------



## edgeair

Mark Oomkes;2029520 said:


> Apparently dealers/distributors are getting very rich off us Americans.


Its interesting isn't it. Although its usually the other way around and we are paying more. It sure can't be shipping, as we are all roughly the same kind of range from the manufacturer.

Should I order 2 or 3 and you can pick yours up when it comes in? prsport


----------



## Broncslefty7

I GOT QUOTED 16,800 WITHOUT THE HYDRAULIC BLADE from 2 dealers.... on an 82 inch unit.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

edgeair;2029522 said:


> Its interesting isn't it. Although its usually the other way around and we are paying more. It sure can't be shipping, as we are all roughly the same kind of range from the manufacturer.
> 
> Should I order 2 or 3 and you can pick yours up when it comes in? prsport


I'd love to if customs weren't such a PITA.


----------



## edgeair

Mark Oomkes;2029640 said:


> I'd love to if customs weren't such a PITA.


 They are like a woman, you just have to talk sweet with them.


----------



## Broncslefty7

do you guys recommend a 74" or 82" blower on a Kubota L6060, the dealer says 74 and so far from what i have read on plowsite everyone seems to go with a 82.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

edgeair;2029655 said:


> They are like a woman, you just have to talk sweet with them.


I have issues with bureaucrats.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Broncslefty7;2029773 said:


> do you guys recommend a 74" or 82" blower on a Kubota L6060, the dealer says 74 and so far from what i have read on plowsite everyone seems to go with a 82.


i run a 72" frontier on a 30hp tractor. A 74 on a 60hp tractor seems kind of silly to me but what do I know.


----------



## Broncslefty7

yeah i wasnt sure thats why i was asking. i figured an 82 would be fine.


----------



## edgeair

Broncslefty7;2029636 said:


> I GOT QUOTED 16,800 WITHOUT THE HYDRAULIC BLADE from 2 dealers.... on an 82 inch unit.


I thought maybe you had caps lock stuck on there, but then I read the price you were quoted and now I understand fully.



Broncslefty7;2029833 said:


> yeah i wasnt sure thats why i was asking. i figured an 82 would be fine.


82 would be fine on that tractor. In fact, I think the 74 would be fairly tight to the width of the tractor, and ideally you want a little more blower width on each side so that your tires aren't riding up on snow banks especially when you turn. With the overall spec width on that machine being 67.3", 74 would be bare minimum IMO. 82 is better.


----------



## RAZOR

Broncslefty7;2029773 said:


> do you guys recommend a 74" or 82" blower on a Kubota L6060, the dealer says 74 and so far from what i have read on plowsite everyone seems to go with a 82.


Go with the 82 or if you want to save a little an 80 inch Econor. The 74 tends to plug a lot easier in wet snow due to the smaller impeller/chute. Last time I looked at my dealers website the 82 inch Normands with a manual back blade were around $9500 Canadian I think.


----------



## Enzo

So as I mentioned I purchased a 82" Normand Inverted with the Kubota L6060. As of right now I should be getting delivery on the tractor by end of this month. The distributor Cummings and Bricker promised us October 31 for the blower, but that is now delayed to December 4. I now am renting a Kubota traditional PTO blower to buy me time until the Normand comes in. Also my blower quote was $9800. I know a guy in Canada who now told me he was able to find me a decent used Normand, but it's to late now as everything was all financed together. I currently mailed 60 contracts out to existing customers and received 6 back so far. The facebook and google ads are up as well as the local papers and started door hangers today!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

19 signed up for me... Nothing much but not bad for the first day of fall.


----------



## edgeair

Broncslefty7;2029833 said:


> yeah i wasnt sure thats why i was asking. i figured an 82 would be fine.


FYI, talking to Normand today and anything ordered from them right now is January delivery. If its not one your dealer has already ordered, you might need to make plans for an interim blower.


----------



## Broncslefty7

anyone know any companies on the east coast that rent AG tractors?


----------



## edgeair

NickSnow&Mow;2030052 said:


> 19 signed up for me... Nothing much but not bad for the first day of fall.


Thats not bad, how many did you have last year?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

edgeair;2030359 said:


> Thats not bad, how many did you have last year?


about 30.... Hoping for 50


----------



## Mark Oomkes

15 driveway quotes in 1 neighborhood. Hope to get a bunch more in the 'hood.


----------



## IMAGE

edgeair;2030069 said:


> FYI, talking to Normand today and anything ordered from them right now is January delivery. If its not one your dealer has already ordered, you might need to make plans for an interim blower.


We have plenty of inverted units for our dealers. These dealers all have a good supply coming in over the next week or so. Please contact them for a quote and I know they will be happy to help you.

Wolf Kubota
430 100th Street, Byron Center, MI 49315 
Phone: 616-877-0800
http://wolfkubota.com/

Winter Wonderland 
1200 Continental Pl NE, Cedar Rapids, IA 52402 
Phone: 319-533-4203
http://winterwonderlandiowa.com/

Lano Equipment 
3021 133rd St W, Shakopee, MN 55379 
Phone: 952-445-6310
http://lanoequip.com/

Lano Equipment 
6140 U.S. 10, Anoka, MN 55303 
Phone: 763-323-1720
http://lanoequip.com/

Lano Equipment 
23580 Minnesota 55, Loretto, MN 55357 
Phone: 763-479-8200
http://lanoequip.com/

Ehlinger Lawn 
305 10th Ave N, Sartell, MN 56377 
Phone: 320-250-9337
http://www.ehlingerlawn.com/


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Boy I'm glad I don't have to drive to Cedar Rapids for a blower.

My local non-competing blower dealer is 10 minutes away.


----------



## 1olddogtwo

Mark Oomkes;2031807 said:


> Boy I'm glad I don't have to drive to Cedar Rapids for a blower.
> 
> My local non-competing blower dealer is 10 minutes away.


I'm sure Buff would meet you there to help load it.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

1olddogtwo;2031846 said:


> I'm sure Buff would meet you there to help load it.


Highly unlikely...........he'd get drunk at the airport and then never call.


----------



## BUFF

1olddogtwo;2031846 said:


> I'm sure Buff would meet you there to help load it.


Heck I'd pick it up for him on the way to the Pre Season gathering at his place......... if he'd every commit to a date for it........



Mark Oomkes;2031862 said:


> Highly unlikely...........he'd get drunk at the airport and then never call.


That incident wasn't by design, I wasn't the one that packed to many road sodas for the drive to the airport, geez you're like an old lady........


----------



## IMAGE

Mark Oomkes;2031807 said:


> Boy I'm glad I don't have to drive to Cedar Rapids for a blower.
> 
> My local non-competing blower dealer is 10 minutes away.


The dealer you're referring to is also the only dealer that I've ever got a complaint about, several in fact, and one of those larger complaints was from yourself. Which is a big part of why they are not a dealer anymore. When their #1 fan/customer is having those problems it stands out. Remember when they sold your blower that they told you was yours? And how hard it was to get a unit in for you at the last minute then? You weren't the only person that happened to last year. There was several other complaints also, related to inventory as well as customer service.

The new dealer for your area is committed to having the inventory and parts on hand to serve everyone. I think that's pretty evident by the fact they are stocking 6x more units than the other guys did last year. Plus a HUGE parts inventory. That's good for everyone.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Not if they can't sell any.

Lots of he said/he said going on. Honestly, I don't remember all the details, but they have never let me down. And that's with over 50+ years of experience with them. 

How do I know it wasn't the distributor's fault? Only you do. 

PS They had a blower for me if it snowed, might not have been mine, but they had one.

PPS They've been in business for well over 100 years, pretty sure they didn't get there with crappy customer service.


----------



## IMAGE

Mark Oomkes;2032051 said:


> How do I know it wasn't the distributor's fault? Only you do.
> 
> .


Well I remember the frantic phone call I got from you when it happened. You were very not happy.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

IMAGE;2032057 said:


> Well I remember the frantic phone call I got from you when it happened. You were very not happy.


No I wasn't, but everyone came through. Just not sure who.


----------



## 1olddogtwo

Was his voice high and cracking? Like his tighty whities we're pinching his Bellend

Can't see Mark in a frantic state, just can't see it.


----------



## NSR

*100 HP tracor Blower/Loader combo*

Hi everyone,

has anyone been asked to do some blower/loader work by the hour before? 
(ie: the city if there was ever a major snow event)

How much would someone charge for the equipment+operator?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## IMAGE

IMAGE;2031795 said:


> We have plenty of inverted units for our dealers. These dealers all have a good supply coming in over the next week or so. Please contact them for a quote and I know they will be happy to help you.
> 
> Wolf Kubota
> 430 100th Street, Byron Center, MI 49315
> Phone: 616-877-0800
> http://wolfkubota.com/
> 
> Winter Wonderland
> 1200 Continental Pl NE, Cedar Rapids, IA 52402
> Phone: 319-533-4203
> http://winterwonderlandiowa.com/
> 
> Lano Equipment
> 3021 133rd St W, Shakopee, MN 55379
> Phone: 952-445-6310
> http://lanoequip.com/
> 
> Lano Equipment
> 6140 U.S. 10, Anoka, MN 55303
> Phone: 763-323-1720
> http://lanoequip.com/
> 
> Lano Equipment
> 23580 Minnesota 55, Loretto, MN 55357
> Phone: 763-479-8200
> http://lanoequip.com/
> 
> Ehlinger Lawn
> 305 10th Ave N, Sartell, MN 56377
> Phone: 320-250-9337
> http://www.ehlingerlawn.com/


Several semi truck loads full of Normand blowers shipped out this week to these guys. There are Normand's available guys :salute:


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Anybody using the new Pronovost 74 or 80" inverted blowers? I'm going to make up my mind this week on whether or not to pull the trigger on a 74. Do you guys think that the manual back scraper is a good option? Thanks


----------



## s_aloisio

NSR;2035010 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> has anyone been asked to do some blower/loader work by the hour before?
> (ie: the city if there was ever a major snow event)
> 
> How much would someone charge for the equipment+operator?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Every market will have a different answer for this.

For blowing or blade work I would base it between your local comercial Skidsteer and wheel loader rates. In my area that puts you between $80 - $135.


----------



## ry_rock

NickSnow&Mow;2035020 said:


> Anybody using the new Pronovost 74 or 80" inverted blowers? I'm going to make up my mind this week on whether or not to pull the trigger on a 74. Do you guys think that the manual back scraper is a good option? Thanks


Just ordered an 80" with manual back blade hope it works as well as I have planned!!!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

ry_rock;2035755 said:


> Just ordered an 80" with manual back blade hope it works as well as I have planned!!!


Cool man. I think I'm going to order one tommorow green with no back blade just poly edges. Just waiting for the rep to give me a final price and delivery. When is the delivery on yours?


----------



## ry_rock

NickSnow&Mow;2035773 said:


> Cool man. I think I'm going to order one tommorow green with no back blade just poly edges. Just waiting for the rep to give me a final price and delivery. When is the delivery on yours?


Should see the new set up for the last week of October, new L6060 a metalpless 7-12 out front and the pronovost 80" out back hope it does everything I have planned for it!!!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

ry_rock;2036232 said:


> Should see the new set up for the last week of October, new L6060 a metalpless 7-12 out front and the pronovost 80" out back hope it does everything I have planned for it!!!


 Im sure it will. That's pretty much a dream set up for me either that or a 4066r. Looked at an l6060 with a 74" pronovost on it. Looked like a sweet set up although I think you made the right call getting the 80 for that tractor. The 74 barely clears the tires.


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;2036288 said:


> Im sure it will. That's pretty much a dream set up for me either that or a 4066r. Looked at an l6060 with a 74" pronovost on it. Looked like a sweet set up although I think you made the right call getting the 80 for that tractor. The 74 barely clears the tires.


Did you end up buying an inverted nick?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2036390 said:


> Did you end up buying an inverted nick?


haven't yet but 90% sure I'll be pulling the trigger on Tuesday. I'm waiting for the guy at Deboers to give me a firm delivery date because I know when he says "sometime in January" that could mean February or March and by that point I might as well wait until next year. We went by Elora today and they have a 74" there but it's red..... I can't see my self spending 8k on a snowblower and it not even being the right colour as silly as that sounds. Decided we won't be buying a 3720 this winter. Plan is to get that inverted and run it on the 3032e for November and December and then rent a 3720 or 3046r from Jan-March if it works out. Won't be able to afford one in cash on my end right now especially if I buy that blower. Hopefully be able to split a brand new 3046r next fall, do the whole town of Stratford, and ditch the shovelling. We've thought through every set up possible this summer and came back to what you guys have been saying from the start, inverted blower. We've known for quite a while that that's the business I want to build its just the size of tractor that's been our biggest doubt. In some ways I have a hard time seeing it but I believe you that you never had any issues getting over the snow when you had an inv on yours. Find anyone to drive your 3720 this winter yet?


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;2036406 said:


> haven't yet but 90% sure I'll be pulling the trigger on Tuesday. I'm waiting for the guy at Deboers to give me a firm delivery date because I know when he says "sometime in January" that could mean February or March and by that point I might as well wait until next year. We went by Elora today and they have a 74" there but it's red..... I can't see my self spending 8k on a snowblower and it not even being the right colour as silly as that sounds. Decided we won't be buying a 3720 this winter. Plan is to get that inverted and run it on the 3032e for November and December and then rent a 3720 or 3046r from Jan-March if it works out. Won't be able to afford one in cash on my end right now especially if I buy that blower. Hopefully be able to split a brand new 3046r next fall, do the whole town of Stratford, and ditch the shovelling. We've thought through every set up possible this summer and came back to what you guys have been saying from the start, inverted blower. We've known for quite a while that that's the business I want to build its just the size of tractor that's been our biggest doubt. In some ways I have a hard time seeing it but I believe you that you never had any issues getting over the snow when you had an inv on yours. Find anyone to drive your 3720 this winter yet?


Color should be the least of your worries, at least being red it's awesome as it fits with any color machine you'd end up buying green, orange, blue or red and not look stupid...

Your logic is a bit flawed tho, there will absolutely be no 3720's available for rent for 3 months expecially starting in January... so your 100% committed to running your cab 3033e this winter...

Are you certain about a 3 series? Buying the blower before the tractor is kinda like buying the carriage before the horse... what if you decide on a 4 series or find a good deal on one? Now your blower is too small...


----------



## newhere

I would take the money you have ready for a blower and make the down payment on a tractor with that. I wouldn't be going with a 3720 either. To small. A 4720 would be the smallest I would go. 
Get a tractor and a custom made 8.5' wide back blade with side wings and do the drives with that. Put a used V blade on the front and go to work.


----------



## ry_rock

NickSnow&Mow;2036406 said:


> haven't yet but 90% sure I'll be pulling the trigger on Tuesday. I'm waiting for the guy at Deboers to give me a firm delivery date because I know when he says "sometime in January" that could mean February or March and by that point I might as well wait until next year. We went by Elora today and they have a 74" there but it's red..... I can't see my self spending 8k on a snowblower and it not even being the right colour as silly as that sounds. Decided we won't be buying a 3720 this winter. Plan is to get that inverted and run it on the 3032e for November and December and then rent a 3720 or 3046r from Jan-March if it works out. Won't be able to afford one in cash on my end right now especially if I buy that blower. Hopefully be able to split a brand new 3046r next fall, do the whole town of Stratford, and ditch the shovelling. We've thought through every set up possible this summer and came back to what you guys have been saying from the start, inverted blower. We've known for quite a while that that's the business I want to build its just the size of tractor that's been our biggest doubt. In some ways I have a hard time seeing it but I believe you that you never had any issues getting over the snow when you had an inv on yours. Find anyone to drive your 3720 this winter yet?


Nick, I am sure that you have given this lots of thought, and I am sure lots have "chimed" in with there .02
I wouldn't suggest buying a blower or tractor. Most manufactures are now offering 0% financing so it's like free money, decide what you want order and buy new look after it and it will look after you for a long time and you can have manageable monthly payments and will get where you need to be sooner. If you can trade your Deere in on whatever you decide again you will get there sooner. Unless you have size limitations a cab tractor will do all year around what your open cab will!!
I started with a 35hp Kubota and it has never let me down, but with business growing we have added a 70 and 60 hp to the fleet, in hind sight I should have bought the L5740 instead of the L3540 but what is done is done and I used the piece of equipment best suited for the appropriate application (but remember bigger isn't always better!!) . If this is something you are truly going to stick with, invest wisely from the beginning and you will be very successful with it!


----------



## Triple L

But there is no such thing as free money (0% financing) the cash price would be at least 5k less so don't be fooled


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

go with the financing, get your 4 series and blower all wrapped into one payment--if you need to plow mount a truck plow to the front--either V or expandable and start growing


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

*I forgot....*

ooh and Nick--get one with a cab


----------



## CAT 245ME

SDLandscapes VT;2036609 said:


> ooh and Nick--get one with a cab


Now there's no need to get too fancy.


----------



## straightlinelan

*JD 4066r vs Kubota L6060*

I have been watching this set up for 3 years now and found it fascinating. I am always looking at ways to do things better, quicker, and outside the box.

I am at the point in which I need to add another piece of equipment for residential/townhome complexes which brings me to the tractor and inverted snowblower. I have talked to tractor dealers the last 2 years in my area and they don't get it. The try to talk me into a regular blower but I stand strong in this concept. I already have 3 skid steers and think a tractor may open up other avenues for me besides the benefit of just snow.

So they brings me to which tractor. I am looking at the John Deere 4066R or the Kubota L6060. I am getting both equipped equally (cab, heat, radio, wipers, defrosters, loader with skid plate mount, bucket , etc). I am looking to equip the tractor with a Normand 82" inverted blower with poly kits and rear scraper bar. I am also considering equipping the tractor with a Kage Snow plow in front 
(mounts are avail for tractors). I want to stay with a tractor that has a hydrostatic transmission vs a tractor that requires shifting (ease on operator and training imo)

Assuming the tractors are comparable in price (within $1500.00) of one another, dealer support seems to be the same with the exception of is one dealer 5 minutes from my shop vs 40 minutes.

Can anyone give me their first hand advice/experience on which tractor to get? Is this an proper setup as tractor size and blower size? Bad experiences with this set up? Wet heavy snow? 2" fluffy or wet snow? Etc.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Well if they are within $1500 of each other either


1. Your Kubota dealer is taking you

or

2. Your John Deere dealer is desperate

I ve priced these two out in several markets in New England and Michigan. The kubota is always cheaper. I own a JD so that will give you a picture of my thoughts on the two.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Thanks for the input guys. The only reason for going with a 3 sized tractor is simply the fact that I could possibly split it with my dad for his summer time use. I know that you guys have tested this out and know that a 4066 or l6060 is the ideal compact tractor for doing this. How much sense does it make for him to have a tractor in the summer with no winter time use and me to have a tractor in the winter with no summer time use? Chad totally agree that buying the blower first is putting the cart in front of the horse the only reason for it is that I could use it on the 3032e for a little while until we figure out the tractor. It would be nice to know that all we have to worry about is the tractor. If I don't do anything I basically cant rent because I'd have to find one with a loader which is even harder to find and more expensive. I thought if I did end up eventually getting a 4 a 4052r would be perfect with a 74" blower and could save me some money over a 4066r or l6060. You don't think I could rent one? I guess I'm kinda risking it but kind of thought that they could atleast get us something I'll just have to pay more? Or is that totally wrong and they'll just tell me they don't have any left. Yes not buying something because it's red is stupid but I just can't see my self investing over 8k and it not even looking that nice you know? I'm sure I'll grow out of it but when we're talking about such big numbers (for me) I want a great looking setup. By the way do you guys think the difference between the 74 and 80 is even worth talking about? That's literally on 3 inches on each side.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME;2036698 said:


> Now there's no need to get too fancy.


cabs are for wimps . Real companies experience the cold and provide better service since we understand the weather conditions more than you girls.


----------



## Triple L

Why can't your dad run a 4 series in the summer? Flip the tires to make it narrow enough? 

I know you won't find one for rent, and if you do they'll want 5 months rent so it defies the whole purpose of waiting 

What blower exactly are you looking at? I personally like the super short pronovost, being soo close to the tractor really makes a big difference


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2036823 said:


> Why can't your dad run a 4 series in the summer? Flip the tires to make it narrow enough?
> 
> I know you won't find one for rent, and if you do they'll want 5 months rent so it defies the whole purpose of waiting
> 
> What blower exactly are you looking at? I personally like the super short pronovost, being soo close to the tractor really makes a big difference


Yes thats the one with the gear box in the front. Pinv74 I think it's called. Looks like the best choice due to less stress in the 3pt, closer to garages, and closer dealers. Is 5 months like the standard or something? Doesn't have to be premier I would think total rentals or someone would love to give you something but maybe I'm wrong on that. I have about 30 signed up right now so I won't be surprised if I end up with 40. I guess it's kind of my last year "testing out" this business model. If I could run it on a 3720 for even a month I'd be happy because I need to know if we can make it work on a 3 or have to step up to a 4052r. Next year is the year to really get this going and do the whole town. Forget the shovelling and do like 100 driveways. We've looked into every option for both of us and the 3720 is the only one. It isn't possible to get the 4 or l60 to the right spacing no matter what you do. The b3350 is too small for me and doesn't have near enouph hp for a 74" blower. You're the only one that i know of that's run one with an inverted. Any issues with the tractor size? I know you already told me that you could always get over the snow so I'm not worried about that.


----------



## CAT 245ME

straightlinelan;2036766 said:


> I am at the point in which I need to add another piece of equipment for residential/townhome complexes which brings me to the tractor and inverted snowblower. I have talked to tractor dealers the last 2 years in my area and they don't get it. The try to talk me into a regular blower but I stand strong in this concept.


I purchased my inverted blower back in May from my John Deere dealer Green Diamond Equipment, they have 13 dealers in Atlantic Canada, the blower I purchased came from the Moncton branch, Moncton has a high number of company's operating 100hp tractors setup with rear push blowers for resi work, Green Diamond brought in a new Normand N92INV-280, they could not get any contractor interested in the pull blower, no one would give it a chance.

But it worked out for me, I showed up, seen it bought it with a nice discount.

Now I'm just waiting for my JD 6105D to be delivered.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME;2042670 said:


> I purchased my inverted blower back in May from my John Deere dealer Green Diamond Equipment, they have 13 dealers in Atlantic Canada, the blower I purchased came from the Moncton branch, Moncton has a high number of company's operating 100hp tractors setup with rear push blowers for resi work, Green Diamond brought in a new Normand N92INV-280, they could not get any contractor interested in the pull blower, no one would give it a chance.
> 
> But it worked out for me, I showed up, seen it bought it with a nice discount.
> 
> Now I'm just waiting for my JD 6105D to be delivered.


Sweet set up but Why such a big tractor? I Dint understand why everybody out east has 6s for residential. Seems like over kill could you explain why you chose that over a 5100e or something? why you would need to go bigger than a 5 series for residential?


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow;2042680 said:


> Sweet set up but Why such a big tractor? I Dint understand why everybody out east has 6s for residential. Seems like over kill could you explain why you chose that over a 5100e or something? why you would need to go bigger than a 5 series for residential?


The 6105D is a 2014, has the 24/12 transmission with 400 hours on it with a year remaining on the warranty, tractor was loader ready as well even though I didn't need a loader, Green Diamond was asking 60K CDN for it. They had already ordered in a new H310 self leveling loader for it, so I ended up purchasing the loader with it for about 70k cdn, I can always take the loader off and sell it.

I missed out on a 2014 5100E with 140 hours, wasn't loader ready for 52k cdn. And the cost of a new 5100E was a lot more than I expected so the 1 year old 6D was the best option I had.

Around here, JD is pretty much your best option and they are very helpful, the salesman I purchased my blower use to deal with my family when I use to live on a dairy farm. I know I can count on them as well as Green Diamond always has lots of tractors in stock, the other dealers do not at all.

You may think the 6D is big but for me I'm used to operating very large heavy equipment, the biggest thing I've ever put in a city driveway was a Cat 972H loader, 6 yd bucket that is almost 11' wide, if I can do that than anything is possible


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME;2042765 said:


> The 6105D is a 2014, has the 24/12 transmission with 400 hours on it with a year remaining on the warranty, tractor was loader ready as well even though I didn't need a loader, Green Diamond was asking 60K CDN for it. They had already ordered in a new H310 self leveling loader for it, so I ended up purchasing the loader with it for about 70k cdn, I can always take the loader off and sell it.
> 
> I missed out on a 2014 5100E with 140 hours, wasn't loader ready for 52k cdn. And the cost of a new 5100E was a lot more than I expected so the 1 year old 6D was the best option I had.
> 
> Around here, JD is pretty much your best option and they are very helpful, the salesman I purchased my blower use to deal with my family when I use to live on a dairy farm. I know I can count on them as well as Green Diamond always has lots of tractors in stock, the other dealers do not at all.
> 
> You may think the 6D is big but for me I'm used to operating very large heavy equipment, the biggest thing I've ever put in a city driveway was a Cat 972H loader, 6 yd bucket that is almost 11' wide, if I can do that than anything is possible


I see. Well I'm sure you'll be happy with it and that does make sense. How do you find the powr reverser? Does speed matter with that thing? I mean like can you be givin er in reverse and flip the lever and it smothly transitions you forward or is there a speed limit to using it?


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;2042834 said:


> I see. Well I'm sure you'll be happy with it and that does make sense. How do you find the powr reverser? Does speed matter with that thing? I mean like can you be givin er in reverse and flip the lever and it smothly transitions you forward or is there a speed limit to using it?


Kubota has about a 10km/h speed limit but yeah other than that it's really smooth... anything faster then 10 and it beeps at you and doesn't move for over a minute and really teaches you a lesson lol


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2042879 said:


> Kubota has about a 10km/h speed limit but yeah other than that it's really smooth... anything faster then 10 and it beeps at you and doesn't move for over a minute and really teaches you a lesson lol


Haha cool that must be nice over clutching for sure. Chad I have some big news I just don't want to say anything on the thread here because the deal isn't totally complete yet. I'll pm you.


----------



## NSR

blowerman;1460173 said:


> The down fall of snow blowing service. These are high wear items. Not that plows and pushers don't break, but I can tell you blowers have more mishaps during winter.
> 
> First picture is of my skid loader blower. Thought I'd use it last week to help out. Hooked a oddly placed cement to asphalt lip in a parking lot. Ripped part of the cutting edge and then tore apart the housing between the auger and impeller. SInce it already had a crack and was previously welded (albeit a bad job) not a big deal. WIll fix it again.
> Second picture is the cutting edge on the PXPL blower. I guess he caught something and it bent a section and ripped off part of the cutting edge. I was trying to limp it until the end of the season, but that might not be the case.


Hi Blowerman, I've recently purshased a Pxpl 92-98 blower and I wish to change the scraper blade from steel to Tivar, I would need some input if possible.

Do I need to change the skid shoes at the same time, did you do any modifications ..?


----------



## CAT 245ME

SDLandscapes VT;1658842 said:


> I m still building the routes--and I have a few things left to go.....we have hired a lady part time to do nothing but pass out door hangers and answer the "snow phone" good response and we have added just about 1 per day since we began the blitz. I know that once the signage goes up, cold weather sets in in earnest, and flurries begin to fall more will add. May have added a small condo group today as well.


Hey Aaron, do you still pass out door hangers? I'm curious how that has worked for you, I'm thinking of giving it a shot, they are much cheaper than advertising in the news paper, and hardly anyone buys a news paper anymore.

Nick


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

follow up on door hangers--they do work, but they are somewhat time consuming. It is a little more money but we are going to switch to mailers. We ve been doing mailers in Mass and it's working well--very well, but repetition is everything so $$$


----------



## CAT 245ME

Have you tried using the snow tags yet, like the ones Paul's family uses in Quebec.


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## SDLandscapes VT

I have the tags--they work oh so well....seriously they are amazing. I find that even more than advertising they are necessary for timely operations as at 3 AM it's tough to find house numbers


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## CAT 245ME

I placed an order for snow tags through entreneige quite some time ago, I approved the design about a month ago, but still waiting. But Paul tells me they are the best way to advertise. And he would know for sure.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

yes we have some on order in MA and I think some others here have some on order with Andre--I think he may have sustained an injury or something like this and his daughter is filling in and it is taking them longer to process orders.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

I've put out about 1500 door hangers to go and have another 1000 left. They work pretty well. I'd really like to try out the driveway markers. I have close to 40 signed up right now. Got the new tractor yesterday!


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

so nick what do you think about the tractor---glad you did this?

that cab will be a big step up for sure.......


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;2055152 said:


> so nick what do you think about the tractor---glad you did this?
> 
> that cab will be a big step up for sure.......


Yeah forsure. I'm really looking forward to using it. Without the blower on and the 720lbs of weights on the front she's pretty bouncy. I noticed from driving a couple 3720s before that this thing is way quieter! Like I can actually hear the radio without going deaf. I like the ethrottle but we noticed it really only works well if you use the stall guard at the same time. Should be a great machine. I've been kinda sick the past couple days but I'll try and get a walk around video of it.


----------



## Enzo

We handed out 3,000 door hangers so far and received a great response with those. As Aaron mentioned what we noticed is that it's very cheap to print them online, but gets expensive paying people to hand them out. We offer 10% senior and military discounts which helps sell the service as well as $25 off if a customer refers a neighbor to us. Next year we will hopefully add another tractor and do the direct mailers depending on how this year goes. What is hard for us is that we need to offer sidewalks with our packages. We currently have 60 clients paid and signed up for the season. I like to do more, but it's hard having to do all the city sidewalk as well as there main entrance walkways and stairs to these homes. The setup we have is the Kubota L6060 going in first doing the driveways and then a truck follows with a small trailer and the shovel crew unloads and does there thing for each house. I attached a picture of our setup.


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow;2055175 said:


> Yeah forsure. I'm really looking forward to using it. Without the blower on and the 720lbs of weights on the front she's pretty bouncy. I noticed from driving a couple 3720s before that this thing is way quieter! Like I can actually hear the radio without going deaf. I like the ethrottle but we noticed it really only works well if you use the stall guard at the same time. Should be a great machine. I've been kinda sick the past couple days but I'll try and get a walk around video of it.


You can thank the dpf for the quietness... 3720's are pre emissions making them a lot simpler, look at the wiring on a 3720 and a 3046r and its like a dinosaur compared to a rocket ship lol, one has nothing, the other is a spaghetti factory


----------



## Triple L

Enzo;2055221 said:


> We handed out 3,000 door hangers so far and received a great response with those. As Aaron mentioned what we noticed is that it's very cheap to print them online, but gets expensive paying people to hand them out. We offer 10% senior and military discounts which helps sell the service as well as $25 off if a customer refers a neighbor to us. Next year we will hopefully add another tractor and do the direct mailers depending on how this year goes. What is hard for us is that we need to offer sidewalks with our packages. We currently have 60 clients paid and signed up for the season. I like to do more, but it's hard having to do all the city sidewalk as well as there main entrance walkways and stairs to these homes. The setup we have is the Kubota L6060 going in first doing the driveways and then a truck follows with a small trailer and the shovel crew unloads and does there thing for each house. I attached a picture of our setup.


How much are you able to charge extra for shovelling the city sidewalk and the front walkway and steps


----------



## Enzo

Triple L;2055272 said:


> How much are you able to charge extra for shovelling the city sidewalk and the front walkway and steps


 For city sidewalks we charge an extra 150 for the season. If they live on a corner lot it is more if they want their front walkway to their door and steps done that is also 150 for the season. Most houses have the same amount of sidewalks in our area we are also using a bobcat S 70 with a blower that follows the tractor on the trailer with the pick up towing it and a couple guys doing all of our city sidewalks.


----------



## Triple L

Enzo;2055277 said:


> For city sidewalks we charge an extra 150 for the season. If they live on a corner lot it is more if they want their front walkway to their door and steps done that is also 150 for the season. Most houses have the same amount of sidewalks in our area we are also using a bobcat S 70 with a blower that follows the tractor on the trailer with the pick up towing it and a couple guys doing all of our city sidewalks.


Right on, sounds like the right tool for the job and good pricing... I think you'll be very successful with that combo


----------



## mlc

*Road legal tractors?*

I just finished reading this post. Wow. Amazing amount of information!

I currently have the conventional 2 truck setup and love this idea for the future.

One question I have is how can you register these tractors for the road? In the unfortunate event of a motor vehicle accident, I think that these would need to be insured like a regular truck? Maybe farm plates, but I don't have a farm. I think to trailer a large full size tractor would cut down so much on productivity that it wouldn't be worth it.

I currently have a Kubota L2850 to load my sander, but I only use it around the shop. It is too small to be "effective" and doesn't have a cab so I would have to invest in a better tractor.

I'll certainly be looking out for how to implement this service for next season. I live in Mass. but don't see any other tractors out during the storms. Excellent thread and really enjoyed reading it. Thank you.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Looks like an awesome setup Enzo! At first when I started reading your thread I thought you were going to say the operator is going to shovel while doing the driveway. That's a terrible mistake from my experience. You get off the tractor and shovel like crazy at 3am when nobody's awake and by the time 9 rolls around the stupid walkways full of snow again! I don't know the size of your walkways or how much you're your shoveller but from my experience when we only charged $100 more it was a big mistake for the amount of work it is. The plan this year is to only come back and shovel after the storm which I think everybody's good with. We're now charging $590 shovel and $390 no shovel with a $20 discount if you were booked before oct 1st. The pricing is based on an avg sized double driveway that could fit 4-6 cars (2 wide 4-6 long). I think most of you guys have the same system am I right? If you have a single driveway or small sidewalk or the opposite you can get a discount or I'll charge you more. Yeah Chad if you pop the hood it looks like there's some sort of alien growth coming off of the exhaust. It also doesn't have any exhaust at the bottom like the 2014s do, it's all out the silver vent out the top. The simplicity is probably better but I'm not complaining about less noise and don't really feel the need to roll coal with my tractor lol.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

mlc;2055357 said:


> I just finished reading this post. Wow. Amazing amount of information!
> 
> I currently have the conventional 2 truck setup and love this idea for the future.
> 
> One question I have is how can you register these tractors for the road? In the unfortunate event of a motor vehicle accident, I think that these would need to be insured like a regular truck? Maybe farm plates, but I don't have a farm. I think to trailer a large full size tractor would cut down so much on productivity that it wouldn't be worth it.
> 
> I currently have a Kubota L2850 to load my sander, but I only use it around the shop. It is too small to be "effective" and doesn't have a cab so I would have to invest in a better tractor.
> 
> I'll certainly be looking out for how to implement this service for next season. I live in Mass. but don't see any other tractors out during the storms. Excellent thread and really enjoyed reading it. Thank you.


I don't have love in mass but here in Ontario we don't do anything. I know a guy that trailers his tractor for snow residential snow, you're totally right it kills efficiency. Not to mention he has a 24ft long trailer so there's never any were to park in town. We don't have any plates, just slap on a slow moving sign and amber beacon light and you're totally legal. No kind of special insurance needed here just tell them your equipment and what you're doing with it and you're good! On a side note last year I was paying $2000 a year for snow and grass with 2 mil liability and no equipment. This year I have over 60k of equipment insured with 2 mil liability and am paying $1450 for the year! I guess what I'm trying to say is shop around.


----------



## gene gls

mlc;2055357 said:


> I just finished reading this post. Wow. Amazing amount of information!
> 
> I currently have the conventional 2 truck setup and love this idea for the future.
> 
> One question I have is how can you register these tractors for the road? In the unfortunate event of a motor vehicle accident, I think that these would need to be insured like a regular truck? Maybe farm plates, but I don't have a farm. I think to trailer a large full size tractor would cut down so much on productivity that it wouldn't be worth it.
> 
> I currently have a Kubota L2850 to load my sander, but I only use it around the shop. It is too small to be "effective" and doesn't have a cab so I would have to invest in a better tractor.
> 
> I'll certainly be looking out for how to implement this service for next season. I live in Mass. but don't see any other tractors out during the storms. Excellent thread and really enjoyed reading it. Thank you.


Talk with your insurance agent. I think you get Ag plates if you don't register as farm.


----------



## Enzo

We will be shoveling/snow blowing all sidewalks after the storm is completed. Only the driveways we will keep open throughout large events. Also here in CT I registered my Kubota L6060 under Special Mobile Equipment. The registration for the tractor was around $60 for the year. We will have to see what the property tax will be on it and right now the insurance for year is around $600.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Enzo;2055845 said:


> We will be shoveling/snow blowing all sidewalks after the storm is completed. Only the driveways we will keep open throughout large events. Also here in CT I registered my Kubota L6060 under Special Mobile Equipment. The registration for the tractor was around $60 for the year. We will have to see what the property tax will be on it and right now the insurance for year is around $600.


I wish I lived in the U.S some days....


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

*Wish you live in the US......*

grass is always greener and snow is deeper on the other side of the border. I will say you did invite more fees when you purchased the smaller tractor. As I understand it taxes go away if the machine is 66 HP or larger......


----------



## CAT 245ME

SDLandscapes VT;2055131 said:


> yes we have some on order in MA and I think some others here have some on order with Andre--I think he may have sustained an injury or something like this and his daughter is filling in and it is taking them longer to process orders.


I've sent an email a couple of day's ago to Andre about my order, left a message on his phone and have yet to hear anything. Last I heard my oreder was supposed to be ready about 10 days ago, but they haven't asked for payment yet. I first contacted them back in September.


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow;2055134 said:


> Got the new tractor yesterday!


Have you taken it for a spin yet down the street like George Jones would've done.

I had my 6105D delivered last Wednesday morning, they also had a new 5085E MFWD cab with H240 loader on the truck, the driver told me that tractor cost 80k cdn. I did get a quote on a new 5100E with 24/12 transmission & H240 loader. Price came to $88,699.40 CDN. So the 19K I saved on the 2014 6105D & H310 looks pretty good now,lol.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME;2056436 said:


> Have you taken it for a spin yet down the street like George Jones would've done.
> 
> I had my 6105D delivered last Wednesday morning, they also had a new 5085E MFWD cab with H240 loader on the truck, the driver told me that tractor cost 80k cdn. I did get a quote on a new 5100E with 24/12 transmission & H240 loader. Price came to $88,699.40 CDN. So the 19K I saved on the 2014 6105D & H310 looks pretty good now,lol.


Nice! I'm sure it does. I just waxed it and got back from a solid hour drive. LOVE the heat and radio. John Deere cab interiors are second to none with the exception of maybe fendt. Did you say it's a Normand blower you got? You guys are going to laugh at me but I have to wait until January to get my pronovost 74 because I wanted it in green. They have one at the dealer that I could pick up right now but everybody knows red equipment doesn't preform as well as green so I think it's worth the wait. I also ordered a back scraper to come with it since I have the hydraulics to power it already.


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow;2056479 said:


> Nice! I'm sure it does. I just waxed it and got back from a solid hour drive. LOVE the heat and radio. John Deere cab interiors are second to none with the exception of maybe fendt. Did you say it's a Normand blower you got? You guys are going to laugh at me but I have to wait until January to get my pronovost 74 because I wanted it in green. They have one at the dealer that I could pick up right now but everybody knows red equipment doesn't preform as well as green so I think it's worth the wait. I also ordered a back scraper to come with it since I have the hydraulics to power it already.


I do have a Normand 92" and it is JD Green, the color of money. So your not the only one.

I've only moved mine around the yard, I spend 12 to 14 hours a day operating equipment, so I'm in no hurry to get in it.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME;2057103 said:


> I do have a Normand 92" and it is JD Green, the color of money. So your not the only one.
> 
> I've only moved mine around the yard, I spend 12 to 14 hours a day operating equipment, so I'm in no hurry to get in it.


Haha cool. Hey Aaron, we ran the hydraulics to the front and they work perfectly at all rpms. I'm not sure why it doesn't work well on your tractor but it seems awesome on mine. I also found out these cabs only have 2 speakers near the front. Nick


----------



## hansenslawncare

How much for each snow tag through Entreneige? I'm good this year but next year we'll be needing something more visible...


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

tag pricing varies on quantity....roughly $4 per without the stake if you get 250 of them


----------



## edgeair

Just picked up 500 from a different company (also Quebec) 4"x48" for 3.35 each CAD. Seem to be good quality printing and stitching.


----------



## hansenslawncare

edgeair;2058710 said:


> Just picked up 500 from a different company (also Quebec) 4"x48" for 3.35 each CAD. Seem to be good quality printing and stitching.


Do you have a link to their website?


----------



## hansenslawncare

*Routine Maintenance On the Blower and PTO Shaft*

How often do you grease at the zerk fittings on the blower and pto shaft? Also; what do you use for the chain grease/how often?

While we're at it; how often do you guys grease the loader arms? (Those that have a plow/bucket up front.)


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2058924 said:


> How often do you grease at the zerk fittings on the blower and pto shaft? Also; what do you use for the chain grease/how often?
> 
> While we're at it; how often do you guys grease the loader arms? (Those that have a plow/bucket up front.)


All the time. I don't exactly have a schedule but i find it easiest to do them all at the same time. If it's a half decent day I'll wash it, under coat, and grease everything. We pour on the undercoat at any time possible. Rust is the worst.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I'm replacing my steel cutting edge with a Poly cutting edge for my Normand N92INV.

What I'd like to know is, does anyone who switched to the poly still run the steel shoes, I have noticed some not running shoes at all.

I priced a set of poly shoes for my Normand but was quoted $250 per side, I shouldn't need to replace the entire shoe to get poly ones. From what I can tell looking at the Normand brochure, I should be able to just buy the poly shoe strip separate, and just drill holes in my existing shoes and bolt the poly strip on.


----------



## R&R Yard Design

Just get a 10 foot piece of poly it 6inch by 1 inch thick and cut your cutting edge first then use the left overs for the shoes


----------



## R&R Yard Design

Just put a shot of grease in after each event and wash the unit when it's warm out


----------



## hansenslawncare

*Help Please!*

I sheared on pin on my Normand 82" or at least I think i did. The pto still moves the fan but the auger is not moving/barely moving at all. Is this a sheared pin???

If anyone has suggestions please let me know. If it is a shear pin, where is the pin on the auger? The chain is still in tact, tension is fine...

Thanks!


----------



## Herm Witte

Richard,

Check the shear bolt on the drive shaft. Should be by the output shaft of the tractor unless the drives haft is flipped around. The other shear bolt is under a lid on shaft from the gear box to the chain.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Herm Witte;2084908 said:


> Richard,
> 
> Check the shear bolt on the drive shaft. Should be by the output shaft of the tractor unless the drives haft is flipped around. The other shear bolt is under a lid on shaft from the gear box to the chain.


Thanks Herm! Do you have any pics? I'm green when it comes to this stuff.

Also; based upon my description and the auger not spinning; would that seem like a shear pin?


----------



## Herm Witte

Call me 616 318-7221


----------



## hansenslawncare

Herm Witte;2084913 said:


> Call me 616 318-7221


Thank you very much Herm! Another question...does anyone know what size or grade the shear pin/bolt is?


----------



## Herm Witte

hansenslawncare;2084921 said:


> Thank you very much Herm! Another question...does anyone know what size or grade the shear pin/bolt is?


we use grade 5 and John Hoeksema drilled the 1/4" one to 5/16". Don't know which you have.


----------



## IMAGE

Hey Guys, here's some shear bolt info.

*PTO Shafts:*

The T40 PTO Shaft uses a M8 x 50mm grade 8 bolt. Available through your dealer in bags of 10, including nuts. Normand Part#03-5506
The T60 PTO Shaft uses a M10 x 60mm grade 8 bolt. Available through your dealer in bags of 10, including nuts. Normand Part#03-5507
The T80 PTO Shaft uses a M12 x 65mm grade 8 bolt. Available through your dealer in bags of 10, including nuts. Normand Part#03-5508
**** The stock PTO Shaft for units is listed below for reference only, because sometimes dealers upgrade the pto shaft, so your's may or may not have the "stock" shaft. To determine which PTO Shaft you actually have please look for a "T" Number stamped on the protective shield, this would say T40, T60, or T80.
T40 PTO shaft is stock for a E68inv and N74inv
T60 PTO Shaft is stock for a E80inv, N82inv, and N92inv
T80 PTO Shaft is stock for a N102inv​
*Jackshaft shear bolts: (these are the ones under the little flip up cover in back)*

E68inv uses a 1/4" x 1.25" long grade 5 bolt. Available through your dealer in bags of 10, including nuts. Normand Part#03-5500
N74inv uses a 1/4" x 1.25" long grade 5 bolt. Available through your dealer in bags of 10, including nuts. Normand Part#03-5500
E80inv uses a 5/16" x 1.25" long grade 2 bolt. Available through your dealer in bags of 10, including nuts. Normand Part#03-5509
N82inv uses a 5/16" x 1.25" long grade 2 bolt. Available through your dealer in bags of 10, including nuts. Normand Part#03-5509
N92inv uses a 3/8" x 1.25" long grade 2 bolt. Available through your dealer in bags of 10, including nuts. Normand Part#03-5510
N102inv uses a 5/16" x 1.25" long grade 2 bolt. Available through your dealer in bags of 10, including nuts. Normand Part#03-5509


----------



## IMAGE

hansenslawncare;2084921 said:


> Thank you very much Herm! Another question...does anyone know what size or grade the shear pin/bolt is?


Sounds like you're all taken care of. Thanks Herm!

I just talked to your dealer also and gave them the info for your blower Hansen, so they know which bolt you need. It sounds like it was the one on the jackshaft. I just posted the sizes above in my other post too. I also emailed them a pdf owners manual, ask Jeremy there to fwd it to you. If you need anything else just ask. :salute:


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I discovered the joys of replacing the shaft shear bolt yesterday...............several times. 

And when the chute is plugged, if you don't completely clear the blockage, you will break the shear bolt again. Don't ask me how I know.


----------



## excav8ter

Mark Oomkes;2084960 said:


> I discovered the joys of replacing the shaft shear bolt yesterday...............several times.
> 
> And when the chute is plugged, if you don't completely clear the blockage, you will break the shear bolt again. Don't ask me how I know.


I was quite surprised that i didn't have any plugs yesterday. That was some seriously heavy snow. Had to be SUPER careful on where you were blowing it.

My shear pins don't break when the shute plugs up.... the fan keeps spinning, but snow just wont come out the shute. I keep a dead blow hammer and a 1"x3" wood stake from a jobsite to clear the blockage by knocking the snow back down past the fan, if i don't get it cleared enough, it just plugs up again. But i rarely have plugs. Even when a drift is too deep to drive through, and i have to back into it and set the blower down into 40" of snow.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Since my pronovost still has t showed up I've been borrowing Chads old Lucknow. It actually worked amazingly well in wet snow, I only plugged it once all day. I know my old blower would have plugged up all the time but this one has a super wide chute on it. Is there a reason everybody doesn't use a really wide chute? Can't throw as far maybe?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

excav8ter;2085437 said:


> I was quite surprised that i didn't have any plugs yesterday. That was some seriously heavy snow. Had to be SUPER careful on where you were blowing it.
> 
> My shear pins don't break when the shute plugs up.... the fan keeps spinning, but snow just wont come out the shute. I keep a dead blow hammer and a 1"x3" wood stake from a jobsite to clear the blockage by knocking the snow back down past the fan, if i don't get it cleared enough, it just plugs up again. But i rarely have plugs. Even when a drift is too deep to drive through, and i have to back into it and set the blower down into 40" of snow.


As usual, it was strictly operator error..........mine. Rookie mistake+being in a hurry after everything went wrong. It sucked. I also thought I had it cleaned out enough, but was unpleasantly surprised when I snapped #2.

That was the longest I have run one. There is no faster way of doing resi's than with a tractor\blower combo. Anything else is stupid. I can't imagine how much faster I can be once I get the hang of it and switch a couple hoses around so the chute and deflector controls are more intuitive (just aboot pushed me over the edge  :laughing: ).

I only hit one mailbox, it was one of those plastic ones that I just had to slap it back on the press holder part and it was fine.

Good to know on the Grade 5, pretty sure we bought Grade 2.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I was wondering if anyone avoids blowing crushed rock driveways, I have some but it's a challenge trying to keep the blower up enough to not pickup rock. If I lower the shoes all the way then I'm leaving snow behind on paved or concrete surfaces.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME;2085763 said:


> I was wondering if anyone avoids blowing crushed rock driveways, I have some but it's a challenge trying to keep the blower up enough to not pickup rock. If I lower the shoes all the way then I'm leaving snow behind on paved or concrete surfaces.


Ive turned down atleast 10 gravel driveways by now. No way I'm risking breaking someone's window.


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow;2085784 said:


> Ive turned down atleast 10 gravel driveways by now. No way I'm risking breaking someone's window.


The ones I do have I switched to clearing them with the trucks.


----------



## andy34

Does anyone know where I can find a Normand 82" inverted manual?


----------



## hansenslawncare

andy34;2090216 said:


> Does anyone know where I can find a Normand 82" inverted manual?


email me [email protected]

I have a .pdf I can send you.


----------



## R&R Yard Design

Would you send it my way to [email protected]


----------



## hansenslawncare

*Kubota L6060 82" Normand*

Check out our video 




Thanks for all the help with the set up and learning from everyone; it's working great!


----------



## snopushin ford

hansenslawncare;2091900 said:


> Check out our video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the help with the set up and learning from everyone; it's working great!


Nice work! How many times have you been out? I have only used my blower 1 time. We need snow or people will be pissed about going to a contract price for the winter and will not be interested next season. Any other video's or pictures of your setup? Matt


----------



## amigacz2

Hey Guys, I apologize if i have missed this or if this is not an appropriate topic for this particular thread, but i am wondering if anyone uses their tractor year round? ex landscaping

I love the idea of the tractor/blower combo, and i have a townhome client where this would be the perfect machine (plus there are 300+ single family homes in the same neighborhood). But i have never owned a tractor and I'm beginning to run numbers to see if this large purchase makes sense for my company. It seems like there are a lot of 3 point attachments that could be very useful in landscaping as well. So if anyone uses their tractor for landscape services i am just curious to know how you are using it. Any input would be appreciated. Also, let me know if i should start a new thread with this... i am fairly new to posting on this site.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Piston

amigacz2;2100130 said:


> Hey Guys, I apologize if i have missed this or if this is not an appropriate topic for this particular thread, but i am wondering if anyone uses their tractor year round? ex landscaping
> 
> I love the idea of the tractor/blower combo, and i have a townhome client where this would be the perfect machine (plus there are 300+ single family homes in the same neighborhood). But i have never owned a tractor and I'm beginning to run numbers to see if this large purchase makes sense for my company. It seems like there are a lot of 3 point attachments that could be very useful in landscaping as well. So if anyone uses their tractor for landscape services i am just curious to know how you are using it. Any input would be appreciated. Also, let me know if i should start a new thread with this... i am fairly new to posting on this site.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I'm just the opposite as you, I use my tractor all year round EXCEPT for snow removal. I mostly do small scale land clearing/thinning, stumpgrinding, and power raking (not really "landscaping" but close) as well as a handful of other services.

I've been interested in upgrading to a cab tractor and getting in to the snowblowing business. If you want any specifics for "other ideas" with the tractor feel free to PM me.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

My dad and I split our 3046r 60/40. I use it for snow and he sprays beans with it. Probably wouldn't work for you but it's an idea.


----------



## amigacz2

I know the answer is somewhere in this thread, so i apologize in advance(but this is 92 pages long)...

Whats the low end on recommended HP for a tractor with blower? The reason i ask is that if i were to use the tractor for landscaping (grading, demo maybe, land clearing) on resi sites, a smaller machine may be the best of both worlds for me.


----------



## IMAGE

amigacz2;2100276 said:


> I know the answer is somewhere in this thread, so i apologize in advance(but this is 92 pages long)...
> 
> Whats the low end on recommended HP for a tractor with blower? The reason i ask is that if i were to use the tractor for landscaping (grading, demo maybe, land clearing) on resi sites, a smaller machine may be the best of both worlds for me.


A lot of guys out there running a 68" Nornand inverted on 3000 series Deeres. We have one ourselves on a JD 3046r and it's a sweet package. I use that tractor at home in the summer too because it's small enough that it's turf friendly. I have a 40 gallon sprayer for the 3pt and I do some weed spraying with it.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

I've ordered a 74" Pronovost for my 3046r. I'll post once I get it and use it. How well does the 3720/46r do with a 68?


----------



## amigacz2

IMAGE;2100285 said:


> A lot of guys out there running a 68" Nornand inverted on 3000 series Deeres. We have one ourselves on a JD 3046r and it's a sweet package. I use that tractor at home in the summer too because it's small enough that it's turf friendly. I have a 40 gallon sprayer for the 3pt and I do some weed spraying with it.


What kind of production do you get out of the 3046r? Looks like its its 34 hp at pto. I love the fact that it is turf friendly. But for snow application i am looking to clear a 156 unit (31 building) townhome association plus some residential drives (maybe 30 or 40) all with in 1/2 sq mi. Would the 3046 be too small? Is that even a reasonable expectation for a bigger machine?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

amigacz2;2100319 said:


> What kind of production do you get out of the 3046r? Looks like its its 34 hp at pto. I love the fact that it is turf friendly. But for snow application i am looking to clear a 156 unit (31 building) townhome association plus some residential drives (maybe 30 or 40) all with in 1/2 sq mi. Would the 3046 be too small? Is that even a reasonable expectation for a bigger machine?


I think that's pushing it for any tractor. At first I was hesitant to get the 3046r because I thought it would struggle climbing over big plow furrows but in 4x4 with ag tires and 750lbs of front weights the thing is a BULL DOZER. I've climbed over snow that's probably as high as the rear tires. In very tight driveways you'll actually be faster than a big tractor I think. It's really nice to be able to get under branches and stuff. It probably won't keep up with a big tractor in big driveways obviously.


----------



## IMAGE

NickSnow&Mow;2100292 said:


> I've ordered a 74" Pronovost for my 3046r. I'll post once I get it and use it. How well does the 3720/46r do with a 68?


It handles it great. I really like that package.



amigacz2;2100319 said:


> What kind of production do you get out of the 3046r? Looks like its its 34 hp at pto. I love the fact that it is turf friendly. But for snow application i am looking to clear a 156 unit (31 building) townhome association plus some residential drives (maybe 30 or 40) all with in 1/2 sq mi. Would the 3046 be too small? Is that even a reasonable expectation for a bigger machine?


We have a more spread out route, but get pretty good production. But what your looking to do there I think is unrealistic even with a bigger tractor. Especially since you're not a pro with the machine/blower yet. I'd commit two tractors for that if it was me. And really I don't think both would be 3000 series, I'd want at least one of them to be a 50-60hp tractor with an 82" blower. The 4000 series Deeres, and the 6060 Kubota both are good tractors for an 82" Normand inverted blower. There are other tractors out there too I know, those are just the 2 that I'm most familiar with, and I like that they are hydrostatic.


----------



## DGODGR

amigacz2;2100319 said:


> What kind of production do you get out of the 3046r? Looks like its its 34 hp at pto. I love the fact that it is turf friendly. But for snow application i am looking to clear a 156 unit (31 building) townhome association plus some residential drives (maybe 30 or 40) all with in 1/2 sq mi. Would the 3046 be too small? Is that even a reasonable expectation for a bigger machine?


How big are the driveways?....20'x20'?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

I'd say a Deere 3046r with either a 68 or 74" inverted could do maybe 80-90 or so in a 4 hour period if the driveways where 20x20 and all lined up. You could buy the 3046r and use it in the summer and then rent either a JD 4 or 5 series with either an 80" or 92" blower and you could have all your driveways done in probably less than 4 hours id think. My Pronovost hasn't shown up yet so I'm borrowing a Lucknow 54" inverted and I'm doing about 60 driveways in 4 hours or so. My route is pretty tight if you compare it to some other guys but it's also a lot more spread than a condo obviously.


----------



## R75419

NickSnow&Mow;2101133 said:


> I'd say a Deere 3046r with either a 68 or 74" inverted could do maybe 80-90 or so in a 4 hour period if the driveways where 20x20 and all lined up. You could buy the 3046r and use it in the summer and then rent either a JD 4 or 5 series with either an 80" or 92" blower and you could have all your driveways done in probably less than 4 hours id think. My Pronovost hasn't shown up yet so I'm borrowing a Lucknow 54" inverted and I'm doing about 60 driveways in 4 hours or so. My route is pretty tight if you compare it to some other guys but it's also a lot more spread than a condo obviously.


We bought a used new holland with a normand 92-280 and I am confident we could do 100+ condos in 4 hours. We had one snowfall that hit the trigger this year, the new holland was down with a alternator issue, and I was able to use our jd 4610 with a 7 1/2' back blade and I finished in about 4 3/4 hours. (107 condos some were shoveled by homeowners) The jd is also open station so I know I lost some time just walking around trying to warm my feet back up. I planned on running both tractors together to increase efficiency. On a side note the jd is getting a cab next year which will make it very similar to the power of a 3046r with the exception of mine being a power reverser. One more remote and I could run a blower on that tractor as well. My only question would be if the naturally aspirated engine could handle a 74" or larger blower as our outside tire width is +/-72". One more quick edit, these driveways are around 20x40 including the apron.


----------



## newhere

One option I thought about is putting a box blade on one tractor to pull the drives into a nice windrow out in the street. Then use a blower tractor to blow the windrow into front yards. I know a 8.5 foot wide box can pull drives out faster then a blower.


----------



## R75419

newhere;2101273 said:


> One option I thought about is putting a box blade on one tractor to pull the drives into a nice windrow out in the street. Then use a blower tractor to blow the windrow into front yards. I know a 8.5 foot wide box can pull drives out faster then a blower.


That was my plan all along until the nh t4.75 drained the battery warming up. Like I said in the previous post I was able to pull out about 100 driveways and push the snow into the yards in under 5 hours. Leap frog the blower tractor with the pull tractor I think it would be possible to get done in just under 2 hours total on a 4" or less event.


----------



## newhere

I agree. Just going forwTd with the blower tractor would be very fast and easy. Even if you had to do 2 laps to bite it off one chunk at a time it would still be fast. 

I had a box blade made that has 3' long sides on it that come all the way up past the rear tires so I don't get any spill out. I find that's key to being able to move fast and leave a perfect drive behind.


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## SDLandscapes VT

@newhere

i d be all day and then some with the scrape and blow away procedure--touches the snow too much. maybe on short, wide driveways I d prefer that but we have everything from 20' to 400'


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## Mark Oomkes

SDLandscapes VT;2101313 said:


> @newhere
> 
> i d be all day and then some with the scrape and blow away procedure--touches the snow too much. maybe on short, wide driveways I d prefer that but we have everything from 20' to 400'


I don't have very much seat time, but I find the blower to be way faster for the size drives we're doing.


----------



## newhere

SDLandscapes VT;2101313 said:


> @newhere
> 
> i d be all day and then some with the scrape and blow away procedure--touches the snow too much. maybe on short, wide driveways I d prefer that but we have everything from 20' to 400'


On condo drives it would be incredibly fast. 20-30' long drives with 1 or 2 pulls wide into the road into a nice windrow and then tractor 2 with a blower is only getting the piles. The blower tractor would be non stop blowing. No forward and reverse. Just straight forward with the blower down.


----------



## Triple L

newhere;2101333 said:


> On condo drives it would be incredibly fast. 20-30' long drives with 1 or 2 pulls wide into the road into a nice windrow and then tractor 2 with a blower is only getting the piles. The blower tractor would be non stop blowing. No forward and reverse. Just straight forward with the blower down.


There is no way the puller tractor could ever keep up, the blower tractor will only take 10 seconds to blow away the pulled out snow.... whats it gonna do the rest of the time


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## R75419

Triple L;2101413 said:


> There is no way the puller tractor could ever keep up, the blower tractor will only take 10 seconds to blow away the pulled out snow.... whats it gonna do the rest of the time


That's why I am going to try leapfrogging them. My other idea was to have the pull tractor do one side of the street and the blower tractor do the other side while cleaning up the mess. We have about 200 condos now.


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## R&R Yard Design

That would work. We have one place that we do that with. I use the ebling and truck and clean one side of the street and the blower does the other side. We do 60 drives in under 50 mins with cleaning the little walks and blowing back the curbs from the city


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## John_DeereGreen

What would be a fair number of drives to assume per hour in an HOA/condo style apartment complex? 100 engine horsepower (size the blower for the tractor, 92 inch?) and an average to slightly above average operator? These drives are 20x30 on average, and less than a half dozen cars in 200 drives to work around. 

Thanks guys, doing homework for next year.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L;2101413 said:


> There is no way the puller tractor could ever keep up, the blower tractor will only take 10 seconds to blow away the pulled out snow.... whats it gonna do the rest of the time


Another thing to mention is that you have more control of where you're blowing the snow going down the driveway instead of from the road into those tiny front yards. The tractor on the road would constantly either be turning on and off the pto or flipping down the chute to recycle the snow so he's not putting it back on driveways. I don't see the point of back dragging with a tractor that's capable of an inverted in this case. If you already had a skidsteer or something I could see it.


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## Mark Oomkes

On our private drives we do the roads first then the drives for the very reason Nick gives.


----------



## R&R Yard Design

We bid at 2 mins a drive with a 92 inch blower. Some times it takes a little more time sometimes we are at a min


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Thanks R&R. What are you figuring cost per hour on the setup minus operator labor?

Edit: that should say cost per hour on the blower for all parts of operation, not including tractor or operator. That's too variable based on the machine, new/used etc. 

Thanks!


----------



## hansenslawncare

Most of our driveway are about 32 feet wide and 40 feet long. We run a Kubota L60 with Normand 82" inverted. Our times float between 100-120 seconds max. 

I've tried the whole "box plow" first then blow; that slows down production. The inverted as absolutely the fastest approach. My "box plow" is an expandable wing plow; 16 feet wide, still the inverted blower is faster. You're only touching the snow 1x...this is a huge difference.

On a separate topic; I found a video on youtube (didn't save it so I'll have to find it again) where a guy was running a Kubota L3940 with an 84" Pronovost. That's only a 40hp tractor pulling an 80+ inch blower; and he was doing it with ease.

I'm thinking our Kubota L60 could handle a 92" all day. Thoughts??? I have plenty of weight up front!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2101607 said:


> Most of our driveway are about 32 feet wide and 40 feet long. We run a Kubota L60 with Normand 82" inverted. Our times float between 100-120 seconds max.
> 
> I've tried the whole "box plow" first then blow; that slows down production. The inverted as absolutely the fastest approach. My "box plow" is an expandable wing plow; 16 feet wide, still the inverted blower is faster. You're only touching the snow 1x...this is a huge difference.
> 
> On a separate topic; I found a video on youtube (didn't save it so I'll have to find it again) where a guy was running a Kubota L3940 with an 80/82/86" Pronovost. (The video said 82" but I thought Pronovost makes an 86") Anyways, that's only a 40hp tractor pulling an 80+ inch blower; and he was doing it with ease.
> 
> I'm thinking our Kubota L60 could handle a 92" all day. Thoughts??? I have plenty of weight up front!


Thats awesome to hear. That means my 3046r will be really well matched with a 74" I always though 66hp was excessive for an 82 or 80" blower. a 4052r could probably handle one with ease.


----------



## hansenslawncare

*Kubota L3940 Video*






This makes me believe that our L60 could handle a 92"


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Handling the snow once is key to the blower being faster than a box or Ebling.

Also, JMO, more HP is never wasted. I was kind of stuck buying a 5085e and there is a noticeable difference between that and the 5100e.


----------



## RAZOR

hansenslawncare;2101607 said:


> Most of our driveway are about 32 feet wide and 40 feet long. We run a Kubota L60 with Normand 82" inverted. Our times float between 100-120 seconds max.
> 
> I've tried the whole "box plow" first then blow; that slows down production. The inverted as absolutely the fastest approach. My "box plow" is an expandable wing plow; 16 feet wide, still the inverted blower is faster. You're only touching the snow 1x...this is a huge difference.
> 
> On a separate topic; I found a video on youtube (didn't save it so I'll have to find it again) where a guy was running a Kubota L3940 with an 84" Pronovost. That's only a 40hp tractor pulling an 80+ inch blower; and he was doing it with ease.
> 
> I'm thinking our Kubota L60 could handle a 92" all day. Thoughts??? I have plenty of weight up front!


I have used a 96 inch standard blower on a L5030/L5740 to blow back snowbanks, it worked find but I only used it once in a while. I think the issue you will have with a 92 inch inverted is not so much the power it is the weight of the blower. I dont think the 3ph with take the extra weight bounching down the road and going up and down 300-400 times per night. I had 3ph issues with my L5740's before my dealer upgraded snap rings to bolts and started adding air ride system to the 3ph.

The blower on that L3940 in that video is not a Pronovost it is a Argo-Trend, my guess would be it is much lighter than a Pronovost.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

RAZOR;2101668 said:


> I have used a 96 inch standard blower on a L5030/L5740 to blow back snowbanks, it worked find but I only used it once in a while. I think the issue you will have with a 92 inch inverted is not so much the power it is the weight of the blower. I dont think the 3ph with take the extra weight bounching down the road and going up and down 300-400 times per night. I had 3ph issues with my L5740's before my dealer upgraded snap rings to bolts and started adding air ride system to the 3ph.
> 
> The blower on that L3940 in that video is not a Pronovost it is a Argo-Trend, my guess would be it is much lighter than a Pronovost.


Razor good to hear from you. I think you might be the guy that I bought my plugr aerator from? I never meet you but my dad checked out your tractors with you? Is that you?


----------



## RAZOR

NickSnow&Mow;2101681 said:


> Razor good to hear from you. I think you might be the guy that I bought my plugr aerator from? I never meet you but my dad checked out your tractors with you? Is that you?


Yes it was me.


----------



## R&R Yard Design

Find out what your tractor uses for fuel. And wear and tear. Purchase cost for blower and tractor. 

For fuel I go at 3 gallons per hour, take the cost over a 10 year split and the wear and tear. 
Pm me and I will give you numbers

Hour cost is


----------



## R&R Yard Design

Damn phone died and forgot to come back and finish typing. 
Hour cost is what you need to run it plus payroll and profit. You can make more then a truck per hour due to being more efficient


----------



## ABC Plow

Well after reading this thread for a year or two now. I pulled the tiger and bought an inverted blower. After using a front blower and back blade for years now, I like this setup much better.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

ABC Plow;2112571 said:


> Well after reading this thread for a year or two now. I pulled the tiger and bought an inverted blower. After using a front blower and back blade for years now, I like this setup much better.


Nice!

You should be able to put it to good use in your area.


----------



## ABC Plow

Mark Oomkes;2112572 said:


> Nice!
> 
> You should be able to put it to good use in your area.


Oh yeah, especially with the little driveways in town. Now the plan is to do a little marketing and hopefully double the driveways I'm doing if that goes well I'll buy a bigger tractor.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I wouldn't think you would have any problems with that.


----------



## ABC Plow

Nope. The nice thing is nobody around here offers snowblowing. And I doubt most people know what an inverted blower is. So that's a plus for me.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I told LandGreen over in TC to get oof his butt and get one. Same deal as you.


----------



## ABC Plow

With all the residential being so close and with tight drives in the downtown area they'd be making bank then hit up all the subdivisions around the area you couldn't go wrong.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

ABC Plow;2112597 said:


> With all the residential being so close and with tight drives in the downtown area they'd be making bank then hit up all the subdivisions around the area you couldn't go wrong.


Looks great! Let us know how you like the econor. Would be good to know if it's worth the extra $$ for a Normand or Pronovost. Can you recycle the snow with it?


----------



## ABC Plow

NickSnow&Mow;2112664 said:


> Looks great! Let us know how you like the econor. Would be good to know if it's worth the extra $$ for a Normand or Pronovost. Can you recycle the snow with it?


It's still a Normand, econor is a serious of blowers they make. I'd say it was worth every penny and the thing is built like a tank. It's taking a little getting use to but I've only had it for two days. You can't quite blow the snow in front of the blower with the single spout. And I don't know if they make the double spout for it. But I got a pretty good deal on it, being the middle of winter.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

ABC Plow;2112679 said:


> It's still a Normand, econor is a serious of blowers they make. I'd say it was worth every penny and the thing is built like a tank. It's taking a little getting use to but I've only had it for two days. You can't quite blow the snow in front of the blower with the single spout. And I don't know if they make the double spout for it. But I got a pretty good deal on it, being the middle of winter.


Yup got that part it's just that the Normand is considered the heavier model.


----------



## Triple L

RAZOR;2101668 said:


> I have used a 96 inch standard blower on a L5030/L5740 to blow back snowbanks, it worked find but I only used it once in a while. I think the issue you will have with a 92 inch inverted is not so much the power it is the weight of the blower. I dont think the 3ph with take the extra weight bounching down the road and going up and down 300-400 times per night. I had 3ph issues with my L5740's before my dealer upgraded snap rings to bolts and started adding air ride system to the 3ph.
> 
> The blower on that L3940 in that video is not a Pronovost it is a Argo-Trend, my guess would be it is much lighter than a Pronovost.


Air ride on the 3 point hitch???? Can you tell us more? Or post a few pics? That sounds absolutely awesome! I've never even heard of it


----------



## RAZOR

Triple L;2112734 said:


> Air ride on the 3 point hitch???? Can you tell us more? Or post a few pics? That sounds absolutely awesome! I've never even heard of it


Chad

It is simply a bottle of nitogen(I think) that they plumb in to the 3 ph lift cylinders. I kinda acts as a shock absorber for the blower. I was told they have been using this system on loaders for years. It is around $1000 to have it installed, I am on the fence if it is worth it or not.

I will try and take some pics next time I am at the shop. But all you will see is a round bottle that looks like a float from a toilet and a couple of hoses.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Sounds like a ride control accumulator from a skid steer/ag tractor loader. Pretty good idea, would certainly save a lot of beating on the 3 point arms. 

Does it have valves in the hoses to turn it off and on? There's some things I wouldn't want it on for for our tractors


----------



## newlandscapes

NickSnow&Mow;2112664 said:


> Looks great! Let us know how you like the econor. Would be good to know if it's worth the extra $$ for a Normand or Pronovost. Can you recycle the snow with it?


I have an 82" Normand and can not recycle the snow with it. It spills over the edge. The guy doing the condos across from mine has the 92" and can recycle it. Thats probably my only disappointment with it.


----------



## RAZOR

John_DeereGreen;2112884 said:


> Sounds like a ride control accumulator from a skid steer/ag tractor loader. Pretty good idea, would certainly save a lot of beating on the 3 point arms.
> 
> Does it have valves in the hoses to turn it off and on? There's some things I wouldn't want it on for for our tractors


I beleive there is some type of valve in there but I am not too sure how easy it it to turn it on or off. I will take a look at it.


----------



## RAZOR

newlandscapes;2112886 said:


> I have an 82" Normand and can not recycle the snow with it. It spills over the edge. The guy doing the condos across from mine has the 92" and can recycle it. Thats probably my only disappointment with it.


I have two N82's, the original one will recycle but the newer 'H" model that I got a month ago would not. To fix that I unscrewed the cleves about 1/2 way on the chute cylinder. By making the stoke an inch or so longer did the trick. On one of my early Econors I made an adaptor from a couple of nuts welded together and threaded on the end of cylinder to enable ot to recycle.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Last week we had a 10.5" snow storm; but there was so much drifting, most of our driveways has at least 12", some were well over that. My route only took 1/2 hour longer, and easily could have been less than that. The first half of the route I was taking it easy because I didn't want to shear a bolt (even though I have 24 more in the cab of the tractor.) 

The tractor/blower combo is just a beast. It handled the 12 plus inches with hardly any slow down; just phenomenal. My truck routes took at least 2 hours longer than usual so I ended up helping them out.

If you're reading this and on the fence about the tractor/blower feel free to call or email me. My link is below my message, and my phone number is on the website.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Triple L;2112734 said:


> Air ride on the 3 point hitch???? Can you tell us more? Or post a few pics? That sounds absolutely awesome! I've never even heard of it


Razor,

With the nitrogen cylinders in the 3pt arms; would you consider a 92" Normand on back of the L60?


----------



## hansenslawncare

Here is another video of our tractor in operation. 




This day I had to get out and shovel as 2 of my guys weren't here for this snow fall. That sucked getting in/out. Youtube decreased the video quality...sorry.


----------



## RAZOR

hansenslawncare;2112909 said:


> Razor,
> 
> With the nitrogen cylinders in the 3pt arms; would you consider a 92" Normand on back of the L60?


I wish I could but I think the 82 inch is max on a L series. The nitrogen helps but the bigger problem is the snap rings holding the upper arms with break after about 200 hours of use and even if you carry new snap rings with you, once they start breaking new one will only last minutes before they start breaking again. My dealer now gets rid of the snap rings and taps the shaft and installs bolts on every L series that is going to be used for snow. Since the upgrade I have not had any issues.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

newlandscapes;2112886 said:


> I have an 82" Normand and can not recycle the snow with it. It spills over the edge. The guy doing the condos across from mine has the 92" and can recycle it. Thats probably my only disappointment with it.


Really? That sucks. The only two reasons I bought my Pronovost 74 over the econor 68 was because it has the gearbox in the front and is awesome at recycling. Glad I didn't go with the Normand. Does anybody else notice that the deflector cylinder moves kinda slow? I can't figure it out, we're going to have to restrict the rotation because it's so fast but they deflection is slow....makes no sense to me.


----------



## newlandscapes

NickSnow&Mow;2113032 said:


> Really? That sucks. The only two reasons I bought my Pronovost 74 over the econor 68 was because it has the gearbox in the front and is awesome at recycling. Glad I didn't go with the Normand. Does anybody else notice that the deflector cylinder moves kinda slow? I can't figure it out, we're going to have to restrict the rotation because it's so fast but they deflection is slow....makes no sense to me.


The Pronovost was like $1,200 more for the 82" or equivalent and didn't have a back blade for that price. I'm glad i went with the Normand.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

newlandscapes;2113051 said:


> The Pronovost was like $1,200 more for the 82" or equivalent and didn't have a back blade for that price. I'm glad i went with the Normand.


Quotes were within $500 of each other for a 74" for me.


----------



## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;2113032 said:


> Really? That sucks. The only two reasons I bought my Pronovost 74 over the econor 68 was because it has the gearbox in the front and is awesome at recycling. Glad I didn't go with the Normand. Does anybody else notice that the deflector cylinder moves kinda slow? I can't figure it out, we're going to have to restrict the rotation because it's so fast but they deflection is slow....makes no sense to me.


Do you have any pictures to show how that gearbox is different? Just interested; thank you.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2113072 said:


> Do you have any pictures to show how that gearbox is different? Just interested; thank you.


I don't know that it's any different it's just were it's positioned that makes it special. Normands have it behind the impeller whereas the new style pronovosts have it in from of the impeller just behind the 3pth. It gives the snowblower an overall shorter length (closer to the garage) and means that more weight is put closer to the tractor instead of in the very back like most other brands. Ill get a pic when I can.


----------



## Lil Drake

Hey guys
I have been looking into the switch to tractor/blower service and have been lurking on here and reading through as much of this thread as I can. I have learned a lot just on this one alone. 
The only ?'s I have is how do you guys who do irregular shaped driveways like them and does anyone care to comment on how it goes on hills? I have a lot of headache driveways that I presently do with bobcat equipped with a 9' kage. I have found a ton of youtube clips of guys doing flat, straight, 16' by 48' driveways but nothing with circles, turnarounds, etc.
I also wonder about the Tivar edges and skidplates. how well do they hold up? I have a UHMW kage plow and a Poly edged kage plow for a skid and I have been impressed with durability and finish of them but the uhmw edge rubs in the pavers and the poly does not. I am not one of those guys who rides the front of the skid when I plow but the down pressure must be causing this because our ultramount with the same edge doesnt leave a mark. Is Tivar a harder plastic?
I am leaning towards a smaller normand inverted. Can these be outfitted so no metal touches the driveway and if so, are they effective?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Lil Drake;2114209 said:


> Hey guys
> I have been looking into the switch to tractor/blower service and have been lurking on here and reading through as much of this thread as I can. I have learned a lot just on this one alone.
> The only ?'s I have is how do you guys who do irregular shaped driveways like them and does anyone care to comment on how it goes on hills? I have a lot of headache driveways that I presently do with bobcat equipped with a 9' kage. I have found a ton of youtube clips of guys doing flat, straight, 16' by 48' driveways but nothing with circles, turnarounds, etc.
> I also wonder about the Tivar edges and skidplates. how well do they hold up? I have a UHMW kage plow and a Poly edged kage plow for a skid and I have been impressed with durability and finish of them but the uhmw edge rubs in the pavers and the poly does not. I am not one of those guys who rides the front of the skid when I plow but the down pressure must be causing this because our ultramount with the same edge doesnt leave a mark. Is Tivar a harder plastic?
> I am leaning towards a smaller normand inverted. Can these be outfitted so no metal touches the driveway and if so, are they effective?


Yes the tivar/poly seems to hold up for a good season. I think s&d snowblowing will agree with me that you want a Pronovost for the small blowers.


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## Lil Drake

NickSnow&Mow;2114296 said:


> Yes the tivar/poly seems to hold up for a good season. I think s&d snowblowing will agree with me that you want a Pronovost for the small blowers.


Thanks
What do the pronovost blowers have that the Normands don't as far as smaller versions
Also. It seems guys like floating back blade vs a hydraulic?


----------



## CUCV

Do any of you guys running a blower service have "black pavement" contracts where you have to salt? I'm running a pronovost with xpro blade and find it works real well for those types of contracts because I'm scraping in and out of the driveways. I've been intrigued by the inverted blowers for year but not sure its a good fit for customers who will not tolerate any snow pack. A contract I used to do is currently being done with a larger tractor with larger inverted blower than my setup. It's taking them longer, tons of snow pack and have salt burned lawns as a result.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Lil Drake;2115071 said:


> Thanks
> What do the pronovost blowers have that the Normands don't as far as smaller versions
> Also. It seems guys like floating back blade vs a hydraulic?


They're shorter with the gearbox in the front, a little sleaker looking, recycle nicely, and have much smarter house routing. Mine has the hydraulic scraper. Not for if i like it better than the manual or not.


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## newhere

My blower is for sale if any one is looking

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=166532


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## NickSnow&Mow

Why are you selling it?


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## newhere

because i can clear drives faster other ways :waving:


----------



## excav8ter

newhere;2117453 said:


> because i can clear drives faster other ways :waving:


I'll bite.... what other ways are faster?


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## newhere

Im just not a believer in blowers. I tried the drug, i took 4 puff puffs and it didnt do it for me. I will stick to my 102'' box and a plow on the front. Thats why im selling this to buy a 8'2'' DXT.


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## excav8ter

newhere;2117614 said:


> Im just not a believer in blowers. I tried the drug, i took 4 puff puffs and it didnt do it for me. I will stick to my 102'' box and a plow on the front. Thats why im selling this to buy a 8'2'' DXT.


Interesting. What kind of drives are you doing that a blower is not faster? Is it your overall "minutes per drive"? Or the time to complete your entire route?
Density is everything. The switch has been nothing but positive for us. Maybe i missed it, but what size tractor did you mount it on?


----------



## newhere

My route is as dense as Osmium. 

(Osmium is the densest naturally occurring element, with a density of 22.59 g/cm3.)

On a 4720. Looking into upgrading tires to a larger size so i can get up to 20mph. This is most impotant on the drive in to town and out of town. 

I would say the reason the blower is not faster is because of the size and complexity of the driveways. Maybe 5 drives are the typical straight shot in and out. The rest are big and complex. Its just a matter of sq. ft. that need to be gone over. 102'' wide covers more then 80'' wide in one pass. 

Pull it out
Pile it up
Ram it back 

Thats my system. 

plow will be used on the ram it back, i will back over my pile after ive made a pull and ram it back into the lawn. I normally pull everything out using multiple passes and make one ram session at the end.


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## Mark Oomkes

Plowing for 30 years, no way a blower is not faster, especially on heavy snows.


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## newhere

Mark Oomkes;2117652 said:


> Plowing for 30 years, no way a blower is not faster, especially on heavy snows.


Mark, you argue with everything i say. Go check whats being said on facebook and report back. I expect a full report of your findings.


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## Mark Oomkes

I don't have Facebook. 

I'm reporting on 30 years experience. That's it.


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## Herm Witte

Just curious. What is the deepest snowfall that you cleared with your blower? Not trying to change your mind but in my opinion there are three large plusses a blower has over a truck servicing the same route. My opinion is based on running three inverted blower routes for the last four years and having plowed snow on a full time basis for forty five years.
1. Consistency of cycle times whether 2" or 8" of snow. 
2. Minimal to no collateral damage to turf. 
3. Repairs, maintenance, and fuel usage are less on a tractor.


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## NickSnow&Mow

^What he said. Don't think customers will be too happy with ripped up lawns or big piles now that they're used to a blower.


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## newhere

I agree when doing 15''-24'' of snow with the occasional 36'' drift the blower was nice. Yes that is way to much snow to pull out to the road and ram back. But i can just drop the blade and windrow it off to the side just as fast a a blower can throw it if not faster. Then use the box to touch up by garages and nooks.

But still with a blower i was making 3 or 4 passes in the same width drive that takes 1 or 2 with a box or plow. 

I agree on the minimal damage to lawn. But what about the damage to $400 dollar ornate light fixtures, Arborvitaes that get stripped naked, overhangs that meet the shoot of the blower, back of the tractor window that some how got busted from a rock, the 12'' of snow that takes hours to shovel because i didnt have a back blade on the blower ( i know that can be fixed), the repairs of sheer bolts because a dog " needs" to play with a massive rubber ball and left it in the drive. I wouldnt let any other worker use the tractor and blower, yes these arnt the worlds best works. It needs a farm boy running it and i would feel better. Any one running a tractor and blower is a darn good operator, running that shoot as fast as youre moving while looking out for all the things i mentioned is no easy task.


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## newhere

I would rather fix grass in the spring then lights and overhangs in the winter. 

If i ever get a customer complain about a pile of snow they can seriously call someone else. Its Michigan and its snow. If you want me to haul it away for serious money i will but this area is use to piles of snow.


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## Herm Witte

I'm sorry that you did not have a good experience with the inverted. Our experience has been positive. There definitely is a learning curve to proper operation of the inverted. Your comparison of a 80" blower to a 102" plow not even close apples to apples not to mention the 4720 goes what, 16mph? A couple years ago our truck residential routes ran out of room for snow placement not our inverted routes. By the way, we still plow some residential as well. You seem bitter. Don't be. Different strokes for diiferent folks. Good luck.


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## newhere

no not bitter at all. I was thinking about putting a big 102'' rear facing blower on it and building a custom hydro back blade for it, i found it online and it was a cheap light weight one so the tractor could handle it. Im all for the blower touching the snow once and being gone but i dont like making 4 passes in areas im use to making 2 in. I think im just spoiled from the swath the back blade pulls and when i drop down to 80'' i get aggravated.


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## snopushin ford

I have found that I only use the blower on the tight driveways that I sold on the snow blowing. Most of the larger drives I still plow (9-2 V plow) and then touch up around the garage or barn with the blower. But plowing the main driveway at around 12 mph save me time. If it was a big snow year then I would snow blow more of them but until that happens It is slower for me. Good luck!


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## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow;2117676 said:


> ^What he said. Don't think customers will be too happy with ripped up lawns or big piles now that they're used to a blower.


That's not always the case, I can honestly say that before I had my tractor/blower, I would get new resi clients here and there that were previously serviced with a tractor/blower or a walk behind blower. They switched to me because of less wait time. And in my 15 years of moving snow, I've never lost a driveway to a blower when using a truck.

I can see where NEWHERE is coming from, before my tractor, my main truck is a 99 Ram 2500 lifted ECSB. I have a 8'2 Boss V with wings that made it 10' as well as an 8' Daniels pull plow. It certainly is a very productive setup, when it came to removing a large windrow at the end I could take it out with one pass with the truck as where I would need to make two passes with the N92 inverted.

But I don't regret buying the tractor at all, compared to a new 3/4 ton truck, the 6D was a much smarter purchase for the long term. Cheaper insurance and it does not require a motor vehicle inspection every year. But most of all it will have a very good resale value which is not the case with a pickup over time.


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## newhere

The tractor is nice because it's so nimble. I can turn around in a 12' wide drive with a power slide. Truck has to wait for traffic and turn around on the road. The tractor can get all the little nooks and corners and areas where a truck could never get. The tractor is great, just wish it could do 25mph and had a v-plow on the front.


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## snoworks1

Mark Oomkes;2117652 said:


> Plowing for 30 years, no way a blower is not faster, especially on heavy snows.


.

Mark is 100% correct. If you get 4" or more, the blower will get the job done faster. Additionally, you have to account for previous snows, where the windrows are to high for the plow to be affective, then the blower is way faster!

Keep in mind, you have to lay out some ground rules here. Like its illegal to push snow into the street or across the street, in my neck of the woods. With a truck you have to tuck the corners, always. The more it snows, the longer it takes to clean up the apron of the driveway. The blower does not require clean up at the apron.

I will admit, if you can drag snow into the street and leave it there because the road is not plowed, a truck can be faster(Straight driveways only, IMO). But that changes over the course of a plowing event and you never have those types of conditions at every driveway. Again, its not allowed in my area.

I have an M110 with a Normand inverted blower. This machine is huge. One of the first things I found out is that this piece of equipment is easier to maneuver that my Jeeps, with front and rear plows on them.

CGB

FYI - We have two similar routes, that one Jeep plows and one tractor plows. I drive the tractor 20 miles to get to the route and still get my route done faster. I shovel my walkways by myself, the jeep has a shoveler in the truck.


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## CAT 245ME

snoworks1;2118240 said:


> .
> 
> I drive the tractor 20 miles to get to the route and still get my route done faster.


Wow, do you do that every time it snows or do you leave it onsite somewhere?


----------



## snoworks1

CAT 245ME;2118284 said:


> Wow, do you do that every time it snows or do you leave it onsite somewhere?


Just did a mapquest from shop to my first driveway, it's 12.6 miles.

I drive to my route every storm. If it is forcaseted to snow several times during the week, I have left the tractor at my mother-in laws house, which is part of my route.

Once I purchase another tractor/blower set-up, I will keep both units closer to my route areas.

CGB


----------



## IMAGE

NickSnow&Mow;2113079 said:


> I don't know that it's any different it's just were it's positioned that makes it special. Normands have it behind the impeller whereas the new style pronovosts have it in from of the impeller just behind the 3pth. It gives the snowblower an overall shorter length (closer to the garage) and means that more weight is put closer to the tractor instead of in the very back like most other brands. Ill get a pic when I can.


I just gotta point out that it doesn't look like the weight is closer to the tractor. It actually looks like the Pronovost has an overly long hitch pushing the blower (and weight) back far away from the tractor.

See below a picture of my 3046r with a Normand E68inv, vs your setup. I'm sure your unit is great. I just want people to be able to see both side by side and be able to make their own comparisons.

Notice it is only 7-8" from the tire to the blower, and only 36" from the 3pt pin to the back of the blower. (would be about 4" longer with a rear blade)

Also attached is a picture of the gap from tire to blower on a 4520 with a Normand N74inv. It's also only 8" from tire to blower.


----------



## AlertSnow

Can a few of you guys share if and how you put your tractors to work during warm months?

- Maintenance and let them sit?
- any special attachments to apply to specific services?
- maintenance services to clients?
- farming?
- to name a few...


----------



## Herm Witte

AlertSnow;2123770 said:


> Can a few of you guys share if and how you put your tractors to work during warm months?
> 
> - Maintenance and let them sit?
> - any special attachments to apply to specific services?
> - maintenance services to clients?
> - farming?
> - to name a few...


Three of our four hibernate. The fourth does a little field mowing. Our lawn equipment sits all winter.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

AlertSnow;2123770 said:


> Can a few of you guys share if and how you put your tractors to work during warm months?
> 
> - Maintenance and let them sit?
> - any special attachments to apply to specific services?
> - maintenance services to clients?
> - farming?
> - to name a few...


See post 1 & 2

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=166688

:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## AlertSnow

Herm Witte;2123774 said:


> Three of our four hibernate. The fourth does a little field mowing. Our lawn equipment sits all winter.


Herm good point about mowers sitting all winter and that doesn't go unacknowledged.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

AlertSnow;2123770 said:


> Can a few of you guys share if and how you put your tractors to work during warm months?
> 
> - Maintenance and let them sit?
> - any special attachments to apply to specific services?
> - maintenance services to clients?
> - farming?
> - to name a few...


Mine gets used for spraying test plots in different fields for 5 months out of the year.


----------



## absolutely

? for Mark & Herm. How did the inverted blowers work with this last storm? We had about 10 inches of really wet, packed down snow. We did decent with our drives but our time per customer was 3 - 4 times and now we have all the turnarounds & ends of drives just packed with snow. I now this is ideal most of the time but that snow was almost blue with the amount of moisture in it.


----------



## R&R Yard Design

We had the same problem with packing the wet heavy snow. We have a poly edge I think a steel edge would be better next year. But I would like to see what others say


----------



## Mark Oomkes

absolutely;2123972 said:


> ? for Mark & Herm. How did the inverted blowers work with this last storm? We had about 10 inches of really wet, packed down snow. We did decent with our drives but our time per customer was 3 - 4 times and now we have all the turnarounds & ends of drives just packed with snow. I now this is ideal most of the time but that snow was almost blue with the amount of moisture in it.


Ours wasn't that wet, but we had a good 10+ inches as well. Blowers worked great.

Yes, they did leave some hardpack, more than a plow with downpressure.

Timewise, unless it was a long driveway, it may have added 30 seconds. We do a few private drives with our blowers and we had to drop down to mid-range to get through them. But strictly drives, they absolutely shine. And the added time for the private roads is worth it after a storm like that.

One exception that was strictly operator error, I did plug my chute a few times. But I let the RPMs drop.


----------



## Herm Witte

absolutely;2123972 said:


> ? for Mark & Herm. How did the inverted blowers work with this last storm? We had about 10 inches of really wet, packed down snow. We did decent with our drives but our time per customer was 3 - 4 times and now we have all the turnarounds & ends of drives just packed with snow. I now this is ideal most of the time but that snow was almost blue with the amount of moisture in it.


We have three blower routes. Our normal cycle time is about six hours. Our blower routes cycled twice in a span of 13.5 hours. We have one S'Houle and two Normands. The S'Houle is the heaviest of the three and scraped the best. I really only received a couple of comments about leaving a bit of hard pack. It will all be melted by Saturday or Sunday.  Our trucks struggled. We had a bit over 10" of total snowfall.


----------



## CAT 245ME

R&R Yard Design;2123993 said:


> We had the same problem with packing the wet heavy snow. We have a poly edge I think a steel edge would be better next year. But I would like to see what others say


I use a poly edge on my Normand, it came with a steel edge but after talking with Neige, when using a steel edge you run the risk of ripping the blower off the tractor since the steel edge cannot trip.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Herm Witte;2124003 said:


> We have three blower routes. Our normal cycle time is about six hours. Our blower routes cycled twice in a span of 13.5 hours. We have one S'Houle and two Normands. The S'Houle is the heaviest of the three and scraped the best. I really only received a couple of comments about leaving a bit of hard pack. It will all be melted by Saturday or Sunday.  Our trucks struggled. We had a bit over 10" of total snowfall.


Herm how many drives do you have per route and how much horsepower do your tractors have.


----------



## Herm Witte

CAT 245ME;2124098 said:


> Herm how many drives do you have per route and how much horsepower do your tractors have.


We have a New Holland TN75DA at 65 pto hp and two JD 5085e machines at 70 pto hp. The three service over 230 individual residential driveways combined. The routes vary in length from about 21 miles to over 30 miles long. Route density is the key and that is a work in progress.


----------



## Golfpro21

we run 8 new Hollands, 5 are 4.75, 2 are 5050, and 1 is 4050. We use normand and pronovost blowers. Normally we get all 600 clients done in 6.5 hours, but with heavier wet snow that goes up to about 8.5 hours
We had no issues with blowers packing snow down, simply set the blowers more aggressive


----------



## TLSIMMONS

Golfpro21;2124275 said:


> we run 8 new Hollands, 5 are 4.75, 2 are 5050, and 1 is 4050. We use normand and pronovost blowers. Normally we get all 600 clients done in 6.5 hours, but with heavier wet snow that goes up to about 8.5 hours
> We had no issues with blowers packing snow down, simply set the blowers more aggressive


Are you running the poly cutting edges or the steel.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Golfpro, what do you mean by setting the blower more aggressive?


----------



## ABC Plow

Mark Oomkes;2124316 said:


> Golfpro, what do you mean by setting the blower more aggressive?


My guess would be shortening up the top link to put a little angle on the cutting edge.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

ABC Plow;2124320 said:


> My guess would be shortening up the top link to put a little angle on the cutting edge.


Does anybody find there poly edge gets caught on cracks? Mine was really bad so I lengthened the top link but it still does it occasionally.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Herm Witte;2124154 said:


> We have a New Holland TN75DA at 65 pto hp and two JD 5085e machines at 70 pto hp. The three service over 230 individual residential driveways combined. The routes vary in length from about 21 miles to over 30 miles long. Route density is the key and that is a work in progress.


Your 5085E in cab is pretty much the same as my 6105D, my only complaint is that I find the hydraulic levers are placed to close to the front, I wish they were back close to the PTO engage switch.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

What are you guys doing specifically to build density

We have 170 "stops" mostly single family but three associations two commercial type places and a municipal gigue on three tractors jd6320 w92" Normand, jd5410 w92" normand and JD 4066r w82" Normand 

Density varies from route to route and the tractors aren't yet "full" from a revenue standpoint but depending on how and where you add we can't meet our 4 hour target


----------



## Herm Witte

SDLandscapes VT;2124585 said:


> What are you guys doing specifically to build density
> 
> We have 170 "stops" mostly single family but three associations two commercial type places and a municipal gigue on three tractors jd6320 w92" Normand, jd5410 w92" normand and JD 4066r w82" Normand
> 
> Density varies from route to route and the tractors aren't yet "full" from a revenue standpoint but depending on how and where you add we can't meet our 4 hour target


For the last several fall seasons we have marketed our snow blowing service to a specific geographic area in West Michigan. This area was also chosen because of income levels and the liklihood of folk in that geographic area with their accompanying financial resource to purchase our service. A flyer went out twice and an email blast once. The flyer seems to have been more effective. We also offer a gift card to first time clients. We increased from two residential blower routes to three this season. Our cycle time is a bit too long and I want to work it down towards five hours. Our growth has and will continue through the quality of the service we provide. As our routes increase in density they should not decrease in the number of stops made and most certainly the length of the routes will decrease.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I thought I'd share a video I came across on youtube, it's from Quebec, 5455 Massey with a Normand push blower. You'll notice the blower has a back drag edge mounted under the 3 point hitch. Time wise he is doing pretty well.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME;2125033 said:


> I thought I'd share a video I came across on youtube, it's from Quebec, 5455 Massey with a Normand push blower. You'll notice the blower has a back drag edge mounted under the 3 point hitch. Time wise he is doing pretty well.


Green blower on a red tractor, must be a horrible set up.


----------



## excav8ter

I've been working on our density by word of mouth. Basically people we currently blow snow for, are just telling their friends. Many people get asked, "who does your snow removal", and they just pass my number along. We have about 120 or so driveways right now, with the bulk of them in one development. Both tractors, and a pick up truck with a Boss V-blade and a 14' Ebling start in the big development. Then i head west to Lake Michigan and do about 30 drives or so that are 400 to 1000 feet in length. My partner heads south and picks up about 18-20 more "typical" drives on the way to a church we do. When people call, we ask first where they are located and if they are not "close" to our route, we simply tell them that the tractor isn't fast enough on the road to go way out of our way.


----------



## excav8ter

So, our biggest subdivision is growing pretty fast. We added 20 drives in 2015 and about 18 in 2014. They are projecting another 20 for this year too. 

The new units are a mix of single family homes, condominiums and townhouses (duplexes)

A dilemma we are encountering is that some of the townhomes are being built so close together that there is very little room for snow. Using our inverted blowers, we basically have to pull the snow down the short driveway to the road and then blow it into an empty lot across the street. But as things fill up, this will no longer be an option. We have been thinking of adding a 3rd tractor with an 8' blower up front to help place some of the snow in the development more precisely, and to help get through some of the deeply drifted areas that regularly get 3' deep or more. The problem i see with a front mounted Normand is that it would only be good in our big development. The rest out our route is perfect for the Normand inverted blowers. The other option i am looking at is going with a bi-directional tractor and a Pronovost PXPL blower. Having spent 3 winters in my New Holland with the inverted, i have become quite used to it, but i am always thinking about a better way... i think the bi-directional tractor might be that "better way". 

With that said.... does anyone here use an 8', front mounted blower? Do they move snow equal to an inverted blower? I like the idea of a bi-directional tractor with the Pronovost PXPL, so i can basically look forward all the time. 

Thoughts?


----------



## CAT 245ME

excav8ter;2125391 said:


> A dilemma we are encountering is that some of the townhomes are being built so close together that there is very little room for snow.


I can understand what you mean, for me it's not always the lack of room on the front lawn, it's the amount of obstructions there is. I come across a lot of homes that have small trees, light posts, fire hydrants, Christmas decorations and etc.

I have several properties where room is tight in the front but lots of room in the back, it would've been quicker to blow straight back. Another challenge is trying not to blow snow onto municipal sidewalks, they run up one side on every street and make it a challenge when discharging snow and trying to be quick about it.


----------



## excav8ter

CAT 245ME;2125415 said:


> I can understand what you mean, for me it's not always the lack of room on the front lawn, it's the amount of obstructions there is. I come across a lot of homes that have small trees, light posts, fire hydrants, Christmas decorations and etc.
> 
> I have several properties where room is tight in the front but lots of room in the back, it would've been quicker to blow straight back. Another challenge is trying not to blow snow onto municipal sidewalks, they run up one side on every street and make it a challenge when discharging snow and trying to be quick about it.


I should have mentioned that all of the roads and sidewalks in our development are private. So we can do pretty much whatever we want with the snow. We only have front and side yards to place snow in...

An option for the townhomes is to have them blown with a walk behind snowblower. They townhouse drives are about 21' long and 17' wide. So a small walk behind, 2 stage blower would make pretty quick work of one, but there are 10 of them, and they plan to add 6 more by fall.


----------



## edgeair

excav8ter;2125391 said:


> So, our biggest subdivision is growing pretty fast. We added 20 drives in 2015 and about 18 in 2014. They are projecting another 20 for this year too.
> 
> The new units are a mix of single family homes, condominiums and townhouses (duplexes)
> 
> A dilemma we are encountering is that some of the townhomes are being built so close together that there is very little room for snow. Using our inverted blowers, we basically have to pull the snow down the short driveway to the road and then blow it into an empty lot across the street. But as things fill up, this will no longer be an option. We have been thinking of adding a 3rd tractor with an 8' blower up front to help place some of the snow in the development more precisely, and to help get through some of the deeply drifted areas that regularly get 3' deep or more. The problem i see with a front mounted Normand is that it would only be good in our big development. The rest out our route is perfect for the Normand inverted blowers. The other option i am looking at is going with a bi-directional tractor and a Pronovost PXPL blower. Having spent 3 winters in my New Holland with the inverted, i have become quite used to it, but i am always thinking about a better way... i think the bi-directional tractor might be that "better way".
> 
> With that said.... does anyone here use an 8', front mounted blower? Do they move snow equal to an inverted blower? I like the idea of a bi-directional tractor with the Pronovost PXPL, so i can basically look forward all the time.
> 
> Thoughts?


We have used an assortment of blowers over the last number of years. We have 3 inverted currently that are our primary residential units. The skid has a high flow blower and we have a compact with a 5' blower on the front. We have a standard 3pth blower on another tractor that does mostly parking lots.

Some driveways lend themselves best to the inverted blowers as you know, but some do not. It wouldn't be bad to have a different unit if you already have a couple inverted blowers. A front mount is nice as you say for placing the snow and for those places where you really need to blow it back instead of carry it forward (like a back yard when the driveway is beside the house with no front yard). Keep in mind, your clients and or shovel crews are now spoiled by not having the build up typically left by a standard blower. There are things you can do to limit that, but especially if its heavy wet snow, it can be a pain to clean up.

Be prepared to spend a good penny on a front mount of that size due to the fact of having to divert the PTO to the front (unless you get one of those fancy front 3pth tractors).


----------



## excav8ter

edgeair;2125419 said:


> We have used an assortment of blowers over the last number of years. We have 3 inverted currently that are our primary residential units. The skid has a high flow blower and we have a compact with a 5' blower on the front. We have a standard 3pth blower on another tractor that does mostly parking lots.
> 
> Some driveways lend themselves best to the inverted blowers as you know, but some do not. It wouldn't be bad to have a different unit if you already have a couple inverted blowers. A front mount is nice as you say for placing the snow and for those places where you really need to blow it back instead of carry it forward (like a back yard when the driveway is beside the house with no front yard). Keep in mind, your clients and or shovel crews are now spoiled by not having the build up typically left by a standard blower. There are things you can do to limit that, but especially if its heavy wet snow, it can be a pain to clean up.
> 
> Be prepared to spend a good penny on a front mount of that size due to the fact of having to divert the PTO to the front (unless you get one of those fancy front 3pth tractors).


We can do about anything within reason when it comes to a tractor. We are saving my subdivision money every time we go out, because we're faster, cleaner and have not needed to push piles of snow back in the 3 years we've been blowing with the Normand inverted blowers. Winter of 13-14 was nearly an all time high in snow fall, but you wouldn't know it by driving through our development.

If we went with a front PTO or Bi-directional, i would look pretty closely at a PXPL so we could drag back any snow within a couple feet of the overhead doors. The guy who shovels can get the rest on the condos and townhouses. The single family residential customers clean up what we can't get to.


----------



## edgeair

excav8ter;2125421 said:


> We can do about anything within reason when it comes to a tractor. We are saving my subdivision money every time we go out, because we're faster, cleaner and have not needed to push piles of snow back in the 3 years we've been blowing with the Normand inverted blowers. Winter of 13-14 was nearly an all time high in snow fall, but you wouldn't know it by driving through our development.


You might want to look at the Kubota L series (up to 60 hp). We bought 2 L6060's this year and put inverted blowers on them, but they still have a mid PTO option and offer a front mount blower on a quick attach system. The HP is lots for residential, don't know how close to 8' on their blowers you could go, but they are hydrostatic which is very nice for driveways, go about 17 mph, heated rear glass, and are great on fuel (roughly 1 US gph average). You might not be a Kubota guy, but they have served us well so far, and I know other guys that have fleets of them and love them. We are thinking of either another 6060 or going with one in the same series with less HP and putting a front mount on it for next year.


----------



## excav8ter

edgeair;2125428 said:


> You might want to look at the Kubota L series (up to 60 hp). We bought 2 L6060's this year and put inverted blowers on them, but they still have a mid PTO option and offer a front mount blower on a quick attach system. The HP is lots for residential, don't know how close to 8' on their blowers you could go, but they are hydrostatic which is very nice for driveways, go about 17 mph, heated rear glass, and are great on fuel (roughly 1 US gph average). You might not be a Kubota guy, but they have served us well so far, and I know other guys that have fleets of them and love them. We are thinking of either another 6060 or going with one in the same series with less HP and putting a front mount on it for next year.


I'll try to remember that. We are running a JD 5101E and a New Holland TL100A Deluxe. Both with Normand 92-280 Inverted blowers with custom, hydraulic back blades. I am a big fan of horse power.


----------



## edgeair

excav8ter;2125421 said:


> We can do about anything within reason when it comes to a tractor. We are saving my subdivision money every time we go out, because we're faster, cleaner and have not needed to push piles of snow back in the 3 years we've been blowing with the Normand inverted blowers. Winter of 13-14 was nearly an all time high in snow fall, but you wouldn't know it by driving through our development.
> 
> If we went with a front PTO or Bi-directional, i would look pretty closely at a PXPL so we could drag back any snow within a couple feet of the overhead doors. The guy who shovels can get the rest on the condos and townhouses. The single family residential customers clean up what we can't get to.


The PXPL are neat, but I hear they are quite spendy. What about a front mount blower with a 3 pth box blade?


----------



## excav8ter

edgeair;2125431 said:


> The PXPL are neat, but I hear they are quite spendy. What about a front mount blower with a 3 pth box blade?


I heard they are pricey, but if they perform like i think they would, it would be worth it. We get a tremendous amount of drifting in our development and regulary go around the clock to keep the drifts from getting out of hand. I don't know how I ever plowed this development before the inverted blower. A front blower and and Ebling on the back is certainly an option. Eventually we may need 4 tractor/blowers and 2 trucks in here to keep up.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Question(s) for those that have been using blowers for longer than I have (second season):

We've had quite a few more complaints regarding hardpack being left behind by the blower this year. Is this a result of the fluctuating temperatures? Last year, we didn't hear anything, this year, quite a few from customers that had the same setup last year. Last year was cold, colder and coldest. 

And a follow-up, is anyone using the hydraulic back blade with down pressure to alleviate these problems? If I do, I need to add a third remote which I'm not opposed to. Just want to ask before spending the cash.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes;2126087 said:


> Question(s) for those that have been using blowers for longer than I have (second season):
> 
> We've had quite a few more complaints regarding hardpack being left behind by the blower this year. Is this a result of the fluctuating temperatures? Last year, we didn't hear anything, this year, quite a few from customers that had the same setup last year. Last year was cold, colder and coldest.
> 
> And a follow-up, is anyone using the hydraulic back blade with down pressure to alleviate these problems? If I do, I need to add a third remote which I'm not opposed to. Just want to ask before spending the cash.


Yeah I have the hydraulic scraper. It helps for to get rid of the hard pack but doesn't float so it an dump snow when theirs a dip in the ground.


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## excav8ter

We added hydraulic back blades this year. They do help with peeling up hard pack, but you may be better off shortening your top link on the 3 point hitch, to give the cutting edge a bit more angle. We have been having our cutting edges made 1" wider from front to back, so we have a bit more adjustability when it comes to the angle of attack. Our hydraulic back blades were custom made, so that after the back drag edge wears down to a predetermined point, they get replaced and then are used as a cutting edge for the blower. 

The hydraulic back blades have proven to be very useful. Obviously they help us get much closer to obstacles, but they work really well when pushing backwards to scrape up hard packed snow, or just using the hydraulic blade as a plow to push snow out where you need it.


----------



## Herm Witte

Mark Oomkes;2126087 said:


> Question(s) for those that have been using blowers for longer than I have (second season):
> 
> We've had quite a few more complaints regarding hardpack being left behind by the blower this year. Is this a result of the fluctuating temperatures? Last year, we didn't hear anything, this year, quite a few from customers that had the same setup last year. Last year was cold, colder and coldest.
> 
> And a follow-up, is anyone using the hydraulic back blade with down pressure to alleviate these problems? If I do, I need to add a third remote which I'm not opposed to. Just want to ask before spending the cash.


We've experienced the same issue Mark. I relate it to the weather conditions. It seems like all of our significant snow events began with temps around 32 degrees making the snow, wet, heavy and icy. Prime ingredients for the development of hardback. We are playing with the top link as well. I want to keep the operation relatively simple to operate so we will resist adding hydraulic scrapers. Interestingly enough on my street the south facing drives are perfect, and north facing drives hard pack. Solar power is awesome.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes;2126087 said:


> Question(s) for those that have been using blowers for longer than I have (second season):
> 
> We've had quite a few more complaints regarding hardpack being left behind by the blower this year. Is this a result of the fluctuating temperatures? Last year, we didn't hear anything, this year, quite a few from customers that had the same setup last year. Last year was cold, colder and coldest.
> 
> And a follow-up, is anyone using the hydraulic back blade with down pressure to alleviate these problems? If I do, I need to add a third remote which I'm not opposed to. Just want to ask before spending the cash.


Here it is in action. Not applying any down pressure here but you get the idea.


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## SDLandscapes VT

We just added the the chain hung back blades on all three of our blowers this season and have already noted a tremendous benefit in scraping. Scraping is still the achilles heal of this setup, but as the other have mentioned getting the attack angle correct is key. It also changes as the edge wears and so you need to be constantly shortening the top link. My buddy's kubota didn't have jam nuts on the top links so the vibrations would lengthen it back out. His operators weren't on top of this and there were lots of calls about not clean scraping.

Solar power is the best for the final clean--

For those who mentioned plowing/pushing in reverse with the blowers--be careful really careful.


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## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;2126212 said:


> We just added the the chain hung back blades on all three of our blowers this season and have already noted a tremendous benefit in scraping. Scraping is still the achilles heal of this setup, but as the other have mentioned getting the attack angle correct is key. It also changes as the edge wears and so you need to be constantly shortening the top link. My buddy's kubota didn't have jam nuts on the top links so the vibrations would lengthen it back out. His operators weren't on top of this and there were lots of calls about not clean scraping.
> 
> Solar power is the best for the final clean--
> 
> For those who mentioned plowing/pushing in reverse with the blowers--be careful really careful.


Yeah the only thing with that is when it catches on a crack and just about tips the blower off the tractor because the angles to aggressive


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## SDLandscapes VT

not THAT aggressive nick


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## Mark Oomkes

How does one know when it is at the proper attack angle?


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## SDLandscapes VT

I just figure if I lose eyeteeth hitting asphalt cracks too aggressive and if it leaves too much snow not aggressive enough

https://www.facebook.com/SnowblowVermont/videos/vb.647074865332367/1115412235165292/?type=3&theater


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## excav8ter

The first time or 2 out blowing snow, i usually have the blower layed pretty flat. I set it down on our concrete floor and adjust the top link so the back of the cutting edge is just off the ground a little bit. Once the edge starts to wear a bit i try keep the weight of the blower riding on the front half (roughly). If the temp warms up, and i am out cleaning up the slush off the roads that we do, i may lay the blower more flat so i don't wear out the leading edge too much on bare pavement. 

What type of cutting edge are you guys running? How much are you paying?


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## newlandscapes

NickSnow&Mow;2126199 said:


> Here it is in action. Not applying any down pressure here but you get the idea.


nice video. is there a clutch on that tractor? Cant imagine its good to flip that pto on and off so quickly at the end.


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## NickSnow&Mow

newlandscapes;2126395 said:


> nice video. is there a clutch on that tractor? Cant imagine its good to flip that pto on and off so quickly at the end.


 Thanks. It's a hydraustatic so no no clutch. I used to think that was bad too but I looked into it and it seems like these electronic ptos don't have a problem with it. Since they're modulated they come on at the same speed everytime no matter how fast you pull the knob.


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## Mark Oomkes

OK, that makes sense. 

We had a few complaints early on, but not so bad. A couple weeks ago we switched blowers because we were burning through the edges and shoes on the Pronovost--which does more private roads--and it seemed to be a little lighter duty. (Caught a manhole and bent some stuff early on, bolts loosening) So it is possible that they are both oot of adjustment somewhat. 

My operator for the one said he did shorten it up at the beginning of the storm the other day. I told him to go shorter. We will shorten up the Pronovost also. I am running that one now. I did just realize that I am not catching cracks like I was when I was running the Normand, so it is very likely that this is part of the problem. 

As to what kind of edges, we are running poly on the Normand because he is doing some drives with stamped concrete and pavers. Honestly though, I can't tell you if the back blades and edges are poly or a combo. 

The current Normand dealer in my area has virtually no parts in stock. Far less than the former dealer. We needed shoes before the storm hit, they said tomorrow.....Friday. Called the rest of the dealers in the Midwest that Steve has listed as Normand dealers, no one has ANY parts. Called Paul, he's getting them to us today. Pretty stupid that no one in the Midwest has any shoes or basically any parts for these blowers. 

And I realize Ebling is new to Pronovost, but the parts manual they have is kind of screwed up as well. It's very confusing.


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## Mark Oomkes

SDLandscapes VT;2126231 said:


> not THAT aggressive nick


I'm lazy and brain dead from the storm..........what setup are you running in that video?


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## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes;2126414 said:


> I'm lazy and brain dead from the storm..........what setup are you running in that video?


She's a 3046r and the pronovost 74" with poly on both edges and a hydraulic back scraper finally showed up a month ago. No more borrowed Lucknow.


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## SDLandscapes VT

Nick--thats my 5410 with 92-280 HINV Normand with hardox steel on the blower and poly on the back scraper--I buy the edges from Paul (Neige)--pretty reasonable actually but I m close enough I just drive up there and pick them up so no freight and I get some Timmy's while I m there and I always learn something new.

The scraping varies with snow type too for sure. I should also add that we don't have shoes on the two 92" blowers but we do on the 82" and while they do protect the sides I m not sure they help so much with the scraping.

I should also add the driveway makes a huge difference as well--nice smooth well maintained and sealed asphalt is better than old stuff that has more "pores" for the snow to stick in. I m working on teaming up with a driveway sealer guy to cross referrals with because if they are sealed you really need them to put sand in the sealer so that they aren't as slick for the tractor in the winter time. Still a work in progress.


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## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;2126436 said:


> Nick--thats my 5410 with 92-280 HINV Normand with hardox steel on the blower and poly on the back scraper--I buy the edges from Paul (Neige)--pretty reasonable actually but I m close enough I just drive up there and pick them up so no freight and I get some Timmy's while I m there and I always learn something new.
> 
> The scraping varies with snow type too for sure. I should also add that we don't have shoes on the two 92" blowers but we do on the 82" and while they do protect the sides I m not sure they help so much with the scraping.
> 
> I should also add the driveway makes a huge difference as well--nice smooth well maintained and sealed asphalt is better than old stuff that has more "pores" for the snow to stick in. I m working on teaming up with a driveway sealer guy to cross referrals with because if they are sealed you really need them to put sand in the sealer so that they aren't as slick for the tractor in the winter time. Still a work in progress.


Sorry I thought he was talking about my video. Didn't see you had a video.


----------



## Rabraham

Mark Oomkes;2126411 said:


> OK, that makes sense.
> 
> We had a few complaints early on, but not so bad. A couple weeks ago we switched blowers because we were burning through the edges and shoes on the Pronovost--which does more private roads--and it seemed to be a little lighter duty. (Caught a manhole and bent some stuff early on, bolts loosening) So it is possible that they are both oot of adjustment somewhat.
> 
> My operator for the one said he did shorten it up at the beginning of the storm the other day. I told him to go shorter. We will shorten up the Pronovost also. I am running that one now. I did just realize that I am not catching cracks like I was when I was running the Normand, so it is very likely that this is part of the problem.
> 
> As to what kind of edges, we are running poly on the Normand because he is doing some drives with stamped concrete and pavers. Honestly though, I can't tell you if the back blades and edges are poly or a combo.
> 
> The current Normand dealer in my area has virtually no parts in stock. Far less than the former dealer. We needed shoes before the storm hit, they said tomorrow.....Friday. Called the rest of the dealers in the Midwest that Steve has listed as Normand dealers, no one has ANY parts. Called Paul, he's getting them to us today. Pretty stupid that no one in the Midwest has any shoes or basically any parts for these blowers.
> 
> And I realize Ebling is new to Pronovost, but the parts manual they have is kind of screwed up as well. It's very confusing.


I think our local normand dealer is stocking quite a few parts now, I know they placed a big order with Steve early in the year. One thing I've learned is to have as many parts on hand as you can so your never waiting for parts in a storm. I now have every filter for all the tractors, cutting edges, chain, hoses and pto shaft sitting just in case.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Rabraham;2126616 said:


> I think our local normand dealer is stocking quite a few parts now, I know they placed a big order with Steve early in the year. One thing I've learned is to have as many parts on hand as you can so your never waiting for parts in a storm. I now have every filter for all the tractors, cutting edges, chain, hoses and pto shaft sitting just in case.


You think wrong. No shoes. No poly edges. In other words, wear parts.


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## Whiffyspark

What would you guys recommend for a budget machine to get started? I currently have a 4400 with an open station. So would have to add cab and somethings going on with pto it won't disengage. It's only got 420 hours on it though

I'm going to give this a try next winter. We have large neighborhoods within a mile of my house might be an idea. Say $2-250 for a winter


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## Rabraham

Mark Oomkes;2126622 said:


> You think wrong. No shoes. No poly edges. In other words, wear parts.


I know in December they had shoes and hardox edges because I bought spares.


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## Mark Oomkes

They have the pads for the shoes, but not shoes.


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## SDLandscapes VT

ROSS breaking into the thread. 

Mooks the shoes are over-rated

I spent a great deal of money over the last months assembling a tool kit with everything we needed--ample shear pins, chain, torch, some specific tools for that oh crap moment in the storm and i ll have the shoveling crew drive with the kit to assist the operator. I ll buy cutting edges again next year because I still have the "flip" on the set I m currently running. And we have a backup PTO shaft--lesson learned the hard way earlier this season


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

SDLandscapes VT;2126695 said:


> ROSS breaking into the thread.
> 
> Mooks the shoes are over-rated
> 
> I spent a great deal of money over the last months assembling a tool kit with everything we needed--ample shear pins, chain, torch, some specific tools for that oh crap moment in the storm and i ll have the shoveling crew drive with the kit to assist the operator. I ll buy cutting edges again next year because I still have the "flip" on the set I m currently running. And we have a backup PTO shaft--lesson learned the hard way earlier this season


Shovelling crew? Do you mind me asking how much you charge extra for shovelling?


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## SDLandscapes VT

the shoveling crew is a closely guarded secret--we don't want people to know--he shovels 5 places after he does a decent size sidewalk contract

https://www.facebook.com/LandscapeVermont/videos/vb.23291429788/10154025635814789/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/LandscapeVermont/videos/vb.23291429788/10154001103184789/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/LandscapeVermont/videos/vb.23291429788/10153958643574789/?type=3&theater


----------



## IMAGE

I have TIVAR and Hardox skid shoes in stock for a 92inv. You didn't you call me.


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## Mark Oomkes

Didn't know you stocked parts that the dealers don't.


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## CAT 245ME

SDLandscapes VT;2126436 said:


> Nick--thats my 5410 with 92-280 HINV Normand with hardox steel on the blower and poly on the back scraper--I buy the edges from Paul (Neige)--pretty reasonable actually but I m close enough I just drive up there and pick them up so no freight and I get some Timmy's while I m there and I always learn something new.


Now on the back scraper since it is chain hung and no down pressure, wouldn't a steel cutting edge be just fine?

I put a new poly edge on my N92 in December, I am going to have the welder at work make a back scraper for me this summer and am leaning towards using the new steel cutting edge that came with my blower.


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## SDLandscapes VT

steel is fine--poly was what was available and ready to rock.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Aaron I notice in your videos that you do not run front weights on the 6320 & 5410, have you thought about adding them.

I found during road travel the front end on my 6105D was lighter than I liked. I ran a couple events without the loader but ended up putting it back on for the last couple of events. I'm thinking of adding weights for next season.


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## Mark Oomkes

I have 600# on my 5085, a couple hundred more wouldn't be bad.


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## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes;2126966 said:


> I have 600# on my 5085, a couple hundred more wouldn't be bad.


How about your other tractors, are they front weighted as well. Do you feel your 5085 has enough HP to satisfy you?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

OK

no weight at all on the 6320--would some help yes, is it absolutely necessary no.
5410 which is the precursor to the 5085e has both front tires filled with rim guard ~total 600#ish. still bouncy but very manageable

Honestly for all but maybe 1 storm in 3 years the 5410 is the go to tractor--it's the one I drive every event because I like the size of it best--big enough but not too big. 6320 is too big for most of our places--we make it work but you have to be on your A game watching for cab clearance


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME;2126986 said:


> How about your other tractors, are they front weighted as well. Do you feel your 5085 has enough HP to satisfy you?


The other blower setup has an 8611 on it....close to 1500#. Personally, I think he's losing a lot of efficiency having it on there. Might change it next year.

I bought the 5085 because it was available and I needed one ASAP. I should have gone with what my gut was telling me at the beginning of the season. But anyways............If used strictly as a driveway machine, it's OK. As soon as the driveways get longer or running off a private drive, it's definitely lacking compared to the 5100. Pretty sure it'll be chipped before next season.

I don't think there's any substitute for HP. I wouldn't go less by choice.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark & Aaron do you attempt clearing drives that are gravel or crushed rock?

I myself have been avoiding them, but I do know a couple fellas doing them with compact tractors.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

we have a couple--we don't take any new ones. the ones we have are either surepack (3/8" minus) or recycled asphalt which both pack tight but still.....


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## Mark Oomkes

I have one that has millings on part of it. Had to raise the blower up when there isn't frost in the ground. 

The only other unpaved one I bid, I priced high enough that I didn't get it.


----------



## IMAGE

Mark Oomkes;2126835 said:


> Didn't know you stocked parts that the dealers don't.


I usually have a supply on hand.

Funny, I just checked with Wolf to see if they needed more since I know they had stocked some last fall, and even restocked some mid winter. Well they tell me they have them on hand, and actually just sold them to Ebling... Probably for you I'd guess. But you didn't call your local Normand dealer before bashing them.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

IMAGE;2127012 said:


> I usually have a supply on hand.
> 
> Funny, I just checked with Wolf to see if they needed more since I know they had stocked some last fall, and even restocked some mid winter. Well they tell me they have them on hand, and actually just sold them to Ebling... Probably for you I'd guess. But you didn't call your local Normand dealer before bashing them.


You sure about that Steve? To be forthright, I didn't personally check with them, Wade did......last Friday. After not being able to determine if they had just pads or shoes, they figured out they only had pads, NOT shoes. Told us they would be here today. So Monday is when I started checking the other dealers you have listed. I finally contacted Paul after NO dealers had them and couldn't get them until yesterday or today.

I have texts to and from Paul. You can check the dealers and ask if my wife called them asking about shoes. You can ask whoever in parts at Wolf about whether they had them in stock last Friday and when they could get them to me. You can check all this with Wade.

My story stands, none of the Normand dealers in the Midwest had any shoes. INCLUDING Wolf. And while I personally didn't check with Wolf, Wade did. You could ask whoever in parts at Wolf about it.

Be careful about casting stones before you know the entire story.


----------



## CAT 245ME

SDLandscapes VT;2126997 said:


> Honestly for all but maybe 1 storm in 3 years the 5410 is the go to tractor--it's the one I drive every event because I like the size of it best--big enough but not too big. 6320 is too big for most of our places--we make it work but you have to be on your A game watching for cab clearance


I would've been happy with a 5100E, but a new 5100E with H260 loader and 24/12 transmission came to $89,000 CDN. A 5085E with H240 loader was around 10 or 12K cheaper than the 5100E.

So I ended up with a 9 month old warrantied 6D with new H310 loader 24/12 transmission with low hours for about 20k less than the new 5100E.

It's all about the payup

But the 6D doesn't struggle at all, and I know there will be storms here where I'll be glad I have it.

I'll say my main concern is backing up to a garage or carport with the blower raised and not hitting anything with the chute. The operator I had on the tractor at the start this season had a couple close calls, really close.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

What i really want is 24 x 24 power quad in 5 series frame with 100 PTO HP......

I know RAbraham has 85 HP tractors 5085M and the kubota "equivalent" 

I use mine on long drives, etc and till rock B4 or C1 or C2 depending and that's 8 to 14 mph and I really have no complaints on the horsepower

2 situations--in 2013 we got winter storm Vulcan 28" ish in 24 hours and the horsepower of the 6320 was handy, and we have one summer client who has a 1250' driveway all exposed and he has his own duramax 2500 HD with fisher x-blade v plow. He called us up one morning because we received about an inch overnight but everything was still unfrozen and a strong wind drifted the driveway shut pretty much flush with the tops of the banks so 15" to 36" of drifted in snow with an inverted and the 6320 was really handy. Could have made it with the 5410, but not as quickly


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes;2126999 said:


> I bought the 5085 because it was available and I needed one ASAP. I should have gone with what my gut was telling me at the beginning of the season.


When I purchased my inverted blower last summer from my Deere dealer in Moncton, they had a nice low houred 5085M. I thought the tractor had a nice size to it but under power for my liking. The dealer was telling me of a customer of theirs that is running a 5085E set up with front weights, Nokian tires and either a Normand or Frontier (can't remember) push blower. He has 135 drives and it takes him 5 hours to complete his route. The area he lives in see's heavy amounts of snow.


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## Mark Oomkes

I'm upgrading my tyres to Nokians as they wear out. Except the 5100 o bought last fall, he's got some tricky drives so I put them on all the way around from the start.


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## SDLandscapes VT

You should check alliance 550 tires 

Comparable to nokian tri2 significant savings these will adorn my 5410 when the bias ply finally go---maybe for next season


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## Mark Oomkes

I saw those, might give them a try down the road.


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## SDLandscapes VT

@Moomkes

i d already have a set but they don't make small sizes for 4066r and Nokian does--long and expensive story from this season but the smaller tractors really burn front tires and turf tires aren't really the best for this exercise. I priced a set for my 5410 (same as 5100e and 5085e) and they were just over half of the set for the 4066r My tire shop thinks they are better too. I spoke with an Alliance rep at the farm show asking him to see if they would collaborate with JD to make this a dealer option--turf, ag, industrial, snow and he said on paper a good idea but in reality not the best. Guess there are some strange politics with factory tires and then availability on the open market for replacements.


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## Mark Oomkes

I traded my rears in for almost full price new, Herm welched on buying the fronts. (J/K Herm)


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## SDLandscapes VT

Herm is a welcher? Spoke with him on the phone last week didn't seem like a welcher.....


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## Mark Oomkes

Herm is definitely a welcher....just ask him aboot a certain lunch. Lol


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## SDLandscapes VT

Herm welched on lunch...isn't that a beer fine?


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## Mark Oomkes

SDLandscapes VT;2127561 said:


> Herm welched on lunch...isn't that a beer fine?


I like that idea.


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## Herm Witte

Mark Oomkes;2127575 said:


> I like that idea.


That certain lunch was weird. I'll give you that.


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## Mark Oomkes

Herm Witte;2127612 said:


> That certain lunch was weird. I'll give you that.


Lol, you made up for it.


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## SDLandscapes VT

did he pay his beer fine?


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## Mark Oomkes

Mark Oomkes;2127019 said:


> You sure about that Steve? To be forthright, I didn't personally check with them, Wade did......last Friday. After not being able to determine if they had just pads or shoes, they figured out they only had pads, NOT shoes. Told us they would be here today. So Monday is when I started checking the other dealers you have listed. I finally contacted Paul after NO dealers had them and couldn't get them until yesterday or today.
> 
> I have texts to and from Paul. You can check the dealers and ask if my wife called them asking about shoes. You can ask whoever in parts at Wolf about whether they had them in stock last Friday and when they could get them to me. You can check all this with Wade.
> 
> My story stands, none of the Normand dealers in the Midwest had any shoes. INCLUDING Wolf. And while I personally didn't check with Wolf, Wade did. You could ask whoever in parts at Wolf about it.
> 
> Be careful about casting stones before you know the entire story.


Forgot one thing about my vaunted local dealer. They couldn't figure out the part numbers, Wade had to give them the part numbers so they could determine they didn't have any in stock.


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## Rabraham

I've got three different tractors with three different tire setups. My 4066 has the nokian all the way around and we're able to run 2wd most of the time which saves the front tires, it also has 800 pounds of weight on the front, this tractor does all flat driveways in subdivisions. The m8540 kubota gets around the best with loaded bias ply on the rear and nokians on the front. This tractor does do alot of really steep driveways that even in a truck makes your butt pucker. I do have a 8611 blizzard some of the time which helps with turning but is really clumsy for driveways. The 5085m has radials all the way around with 1200pds on the front and it still skates around. I added 600 pounds and grooved the rear tires which helped but still putting nokians on the front for next year. This tractor does fairly flat driveways but does have a few steep ones that if it is at all slick the kubota has to do them.
And like s&d said alliance makes tires for the bigger tractors and I might try those on the rear or just get a narrow bias ply.


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## SDLandscapes VT

@Rabraham

we have nokians on the 4066r which does require 4 wd on anything with topography even with those tires

we have some old bias ply on the 5410 which are getting worn, but pretty reliable even on the steep stuff. Front tires are loaded

6320 with unloaded and unweighted radials is the worst 

will be putting alliance 550's on 5410 when bias ply tires wear out

might sell the 6320--but if I was to weight it how much would be required to improve things


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## hansenslawncare

On our Kubota L60 we have the R4's front and back; with rimguard in the rears only. We also carry loader/plow on the front while doing drives. 

Not once this winter have I thrown it into 4wd; and we have some fairly steep drives but nothing too crazy.

I know guys put different tires on skids and claim they pick up 2-3mph on speed; is this likely with a tractor? Reason I ask; our tractor with no loader/blower tops out right about about 20mph; but with the blower/loader on hovers right around 16-17mph. Could a different tire help with this or is that too much hassle for 2 more mph??? Like I said the R4s worked great without the need of 4wd yet.

Thoughts???


----------



## edgeair

hansenslawncare;2133958 said:


> On our Kubota L60 we have the R4's front and back; with rimguard in the rears only. We also carry loader/plow on the front while doing drives.
> 
> Not once this winter have I thrown it into 4wd; and we have some fairly steep drives but nothing too crazy.
> 
> I know guys put different tires on skids and claim they pick up 2-3mph on speed; is this likely with a tractor? Reason I ask; our tractor with no loader/blower tops out right about about 20mph; but with the blower/loader on hovers right around 16-17mph. Could a different tire help with this or is that too much hassle for 2 more mph??? Like I said the R4s worked great without the need of 4wd yet.
> 
> Thoughts???


It sounds like you are already being bogged down when you put a load on the tractor. If you could find a set of bigger tires, you won't likely pick up any speed. This is due to the hydro transmission not being as 'powerful' as a geared transmission. Ive got a couple of the L60's and they are great but they do have a limit.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

edgeair;2134029 said:


> It sounds like you are already being bogged down when you put a load on the tractor. If you could find a set of bigger tires, you won't likely pick up any speed. This is due to the hydro transmission not being as 'powerful' as a geared transmission. Ive got a couple of the L60's and they are great but they do have a limit.


Wow I never realized just a loader and blower can slow a tractor down. Although, you would think a bigger tire will rotate less times so even though the transmission may be bogged down a bigger tire should still speed it up even though it's already maxed out. Not like the weight of the tires is going to change anything so how could it not speed it up? We put just bigger rear tires on our old lawn tractor and it sped it up from 5mph to 6.5 atleast.


----------



## edgeair

NickSnow&Mow;2134031 said:


> Wow I never realized just a loader and blower can slow a tractor down. Although, you would think a bigger tire will rotate less times so even though the transmission may be bogged down a bigger tire should still speed it up even though it's already maxed out. Not like the weight of the tires is going to change anything so how could it not speed it up? We put just bigger rear tires on our old lawn tractor and it sped it up from 5mph to 6.5 atleast.


It's like picking too high a gear on your 10 speed. If you can build up momentum sure, you'll go faster in the end. But if you pick too high a gear you can't ever build up enough speed and in some cases you'll go slower. 20 mph is already pretty quick for a hydro transmission.

This is something you see with wheel loaders and other heavier equipment with similar transmissions that rely on oil pressure build up. They are tuned more for low end grunt and not so much for high speed. They lose torque at higher speeds. Putting a bigger tire on just increases the static loading on the transmission which is like picking a higher gear. If you have a big hill try it sometime. Try taking off in high range with a hydro and see how much it bogs. Then try it in mid range and you should see a much quicker acceleration and possibly top speed if it's a steep enough hill.

Even just with a blower on the back of our L6060's, going up a steep hill you can easily lose 3-5 mph, engine still at the same rpms.

I think if you don't have the power to support it then there's not much point to increasing tire size in an attempt to gain speed.


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## Whiffyspark

Does anyone know if a 3 series would run a 6 foot bush hog?


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## boutch

With the loader at 1400 pounds plus plow at 400 plus depending on what he got.blower anywhere from 600 to 1000 pounds depending on type. Plus ballast in the tires. It is realy good that he only loosing couple mph. Im with the other, I dont think bigger diameter tire would speed it up any.


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## boutch

Nokian tire offer now a new winter tire for tractor, the Hakkapeliitta TRI. I got Nokian TRI2 on my kubota m100x and those look pretty impressive compared to the TRI2. See the tire in action in the attached video.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

edgeair;2134051 said:


> It's like picking too high a gear on your 10 speed. If you can build up momentum sure, you'll go faster in the end. But if you pick too high a gear you can't ever build up enough speed and in some cases you'll go slower. 20 mph is already pretty quick for a hydro transmission.
> 
> This is something you see with wheel loaders and other heavier equipment with similar transmissions that rely on oil pressure build up. They are tuned more for low end grunt and not so much for high speed. They lose torque at higher speeds. Putting a bigger tire on just increases the static loading on the transmission which is like picking a higher gear. If you have a big hill try it sometime. Try taking off in high range with a hydro and see how much it bogs. Then try it in mid range and you should see a much quicker acceleration and possibly top speed if it's a steep enough hill.
> 
> Even just with a blower on the back of our L6060's, going up a steep hill you can easily lose 3-5 mph, engine still at the same rpms.
> 
> I think if you don't have the power to support it then there's not much point to increasing tire size in an attempt to gain speed.


Fair enough. I go from 16 to 12 or 13 in range C going up a big hill


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## IMAGE

Whiffyspark;2134120 said:


> Does anyone know if a 3 series would run a 6 foot bush hog?


We do all the time to mow a little 4 acre lot by the shop. It's really bumpy out there so we can't go fast anyways, but I'd think even if it was smooth that hp wouldn't be a problem.


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## edgeair

boutch;2134132 said:


> Nokian tire offer now a new winter tire for tractor, the Hakkapeliitta TRI. I got Nokian TRI2 on my kubota m100x and those look pretty impressive compared to the TRI2. See the tire in action in the attached video.


Basically looks like they added siping but the pattern is similar right?


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## Whiffyspark

IMAGE;2134230 said:


> We do all the time to mow a little 4 acre lot by the shop. It's really bumpy out there so we can't go fast anyways, but I'd think even if it was smooth that hp wouldn't be a problem.


Thanks. I like the size and my dad wants a new tractor for when he buys a farm. I want to try snow blowing seems like a good deal if I split the cost with him

I currently use a Deere 4400 but it has a god awful PTO design and the brake needs to be replaced. Repair costs vs just getting a new one


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## boutch

edgeair;2134234 said:


> Basically looks like they added siping but the pattern is similar right?


Pattern is déférent. Lugs are smaller too. Thinking of siping the TRI2, I got alot of scrary steep driveways. 2 off them going down, I didnot dare going down with the tractor. Couple other scary one going up I got to make a run at them, they get worst after i scraped them. I switched from standard blower to inverted mid season. I'm having better traction pulling then backing up.


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## Triple L

IMAGE;2134230 said:


> We do all the time to mow a little 4 acre lot by the shop. It's really bumpy out there so we can't go fast anyways, but I'd think even if it was smooth that hp wouldn't be a problem.


I run a 5' behind my 3720 and have literally mowed thousands of acres with it... I wouldnt blink at putting a 6' behind it, we never run out of power with a 5'... but be sure its a turbo 3720, I think you'll run out of power fast with a 3520 or 3320


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## Whiffyspark

We have either a 513 or 613 I can't remember without measuring it.


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## John_DeereGreen

Never had any issues with my 3720 and 6 foot cutter. Was just about unstoppable.


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## hansenslawncare

I know we mainly talking about snow "blowing" but, do any of you guys use the tractors to plow commercials as well? We used ours last year for 3 small commercial lots. I had mounted an ebling to the front and it worked pretty well; without the ability to angle left and right.

But this year I'm thinking about buying a Kage system for it? Any other recommendations?


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## Mark Oomkes

Yes and no. 

The route was too long so he didn't keep them on his route. 

Honestly, after plowing 1 night with a plow and the rest of the winter without, I wouldn't ever run a plow on a blower tractor again if the route was full. The other tractor had one all winter, but I am quite sure he won't next year.


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## SDLandscapes VT

I d like to hear more of the plow on the front blower on the rear idea. Image has mount ups for JD and Boss so I could put a v-plow on the front of my 4066r. I m not a huge V plow proponent, but the fold back around the front of the tractor seems to me like less of a hassle when using just the blowers on driveways

i d love to hear the pros and cons


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## Mark Oomkes

I'd think about a V-plow, but not a straight blade. I won't be removing the mount off my one tractor, but I highly doubt it will have a plow on it next season.


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## hansenslawncare

Mark Oomkes;2140519 said:


> I'd think about a V-plow, but not a straight blade. I won't be removing the mount off my one tractor, but I highly doubt it will have a plow on it next season.


What about one of these http://www.kageinnovation.com/


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## hansenslawncare

So I know most of us push seasonal prepaids for the tractors. With that said, if you break it down per storm; what is everyone's target hourly rate for the tractor? Not what we pay our guys to run it; but the hourly rate in revenue produced? 

I'm trying to figure out what the lowest is that I could charge and still turn a high profit...

I know every market is different I'm just interested. Plus I'm bored because snow is at least 6 months away!


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## SDLandscapes VT

doesn't matter what we charge because it COSTS all of us a different amount. That being said I think it's reasonable to get between $4 and $5 per minute--not necessary but doable.

hansen did you try to call me last week--I missed a call from a 972 and I wondered if it was you

Also my $.02 on the Kage--if you spend that money why not just spend a touch more and get a metal pless or HLA speed wing and never have to chase the kage around the site--also more functionality. In all cases I cannot see how you ll switch between lots and drives with that system hanging off the front of the tractor--it would make driveways a nightmare


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## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;2140593 said:


> doesn't matter what we charge because it COSTS all of us a different amount. That being said I think it's reasonable to get between $4 and $5 per minute--not necessary but doable.
> 
> hansen did you try to call me last week--I missed a call from a 972 and I wondered if it was you
> 
> Also my $.02 on the Kage--if you spend that money why not just spend a touch more and get a metal pless or HLA speed wing and never have to chase the kage around the site--also more functionality. In all cases I cannot see how you ll switch between lots and drives with that system hanging off the front of the tractor--it would make driveways a nightmare


Yeah you're right on the costs...just curious. Seriously thinking of lowering our prices to "snowball" more customers this year.

No I didn't call you...but I'm sure I will soon enough!

I like the Metal Pless, any idea on pricing? The thing is that they are so heavy, on way out on the end of the tractor loader arms seems like a lot of weight compared to the kage.

What I like about the kage is that it mounts to the skid steer plate, which I have on my loader arms of my tractor. We left our front plow/loader arms while doing driveways. A few spots it was a little bit of a pain (had to lift the arms about 8 feet off the ground) but overall it wasn't a bother. I'm sure without it it would be more maneuverable; but again it wasn't a problem most of the time and even then it was just a little nuisance.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

ag tractor loader arms = terrible idea for anything angling

i m talking about frame hanging all of these options

Neige could help you on the metal pless pricing. I know that the sizes for the L6060 or 4066r don't have live edge. If I had to guess I d say you would be 10K to 11K in the metal pless but that is only a guess.


----------



## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;2140595 said:


> ag tractor loader arms = terrible idea for anything angling
> 
> i m talking about frame hanging all of these options
> 
> Neige could help you on the metal pless pricing. I know that the sizes for the L6060 or 4066r don't have live edge. If I had to guess I d say you would be 10K to 11K in the metal pless but that is only a guess.


Right...but then frame hanging I can't stack it! The Kage is about $6000 for me; their shop is 15 miles away. Either way we don't use the tractor a lot for plowing lots; I suppose if we started to acquire larger commercials a bigger tractor would be warranted. But that's another topic in itself.

Thanks buddy!


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

but who cares about stacking you have a blower on the back just blow it back.......takes the air out too


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## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;2140597 said:


> but who cares about stacking you have a blower on the back just blow it back.......takes the air out too


That's true!


----------



## Herm Witte

I've said it before in this multi year thread. Hanging a plow off the front end or off the loader arms of a tractor would cause you to lose the maneuverability of the tractor. The maneuverability and the backing up without worrying about anything up front are huge plusses for the inverted set ups. The only plow I would consider is a V plow.


----------



## boutch

This year was my first switching to blower service. Got realy good respond from customer. I have a M100x with a 92INV pronovost. I got alot of gravel driveways to service, so I needed a plow for that. Build my own sub frame and hung a old 8 foot fisher HD on the front. Running hyd from the laoder valve. It sticks out about 2 feet in front of tractor. I oparetes where houses are on 1-2 acres lots. The plow on the front is not much an issue for me, but in the city with with narow street and lots of cars around I wound had ditched the plow for sure. Im close to 24 feet long with blower and plow. My smallest driveway is 60 feet. Most are 80-100 and got about 10 that are 300-400 feet long. I need to do some major clean up in my clients list. Graveldrive are very hard on the blower drum if you pick any up. Hilly driveway are a big problem too. Im with the others, angling plow on loader arm is a big no no. Not sure what available in your area but a use sub frame for your tractor goes for about 1000-1500$ in montreal. I got about 1000$ in hoses, coupler and fitting alone on my plow set up. 

Love the tractor set up. Even in 2-3 inches snow event the tractor still faster. I'm only using the truck now to clean curbs after the city plow come by. 

The biggest storm we had this year was close to 15 inches, No problem with the Inverted blower. I also got an conventional blower 92 inch pronovost. I got both because of people saying inverted was only good up about 12 inches of snow. 
The inverted is definatly the way to go for residential, Faster and easyer on the neck I find. 

I tryed both blower this year, getting better traction pulling the INV in the snow vs backing up with the conventional. I got Nokian tires on the tractor. Also the blower as no problem scraping the wet snow after the tractor compacted it.


----------



## CAT 245ME

After my first season with my 6D & Inverted blower, the one thing I know for sure is the H310 loader is coming off and the only thing I will hang on the front of the tractor will be suitcase weights. I own three 3/4 ton plow trucks, I will be letting go of a lot of my truck work and not worry anymore about people not showing up or showing up late. I will probably sell one plow truck.

I don't see why anyone would want to add a front blade and hurt the maneuverability of the tractor/blower if you are working on city streets. In my case, I will run one truck/plow with the tractor, mainly in case of a breakdown the truck will carry what I need to get going again. I will only keep around 20 drives for the truck that are outside the service area.

It' the first of May and I'm already getting new clients for next season.Thumbs Up


----------



## hansenslawncare

Herm Witte;2140602 said:


> I've said it before in this multi year thread. Hanging a plow off the front end or off the loader arms of a tractor would cause you to lose the maneuverability of the tractor. The maneuverability and the backing up without worrying about anything up front are huge plusses for the inverted set ups. The only plow I would consider is a V plow.


I understand that. In our neighborhoods we have plenty of room so the maneuverability hasn't been an issue; but i can understand how it can be.

Why a V plow? Over anything else? Wide out?, etc...


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

V-plow because when in V mode the bulk of the plow folds around the tractor giving less obstruction than a straight blade or pusher

i m thinking about condos and small commercial with this rig


----------



## Herm Witte

hansenslawncare;2140632 said:


> I understand that. In our neighborhoods we have plenty of room so the maneuverability hasn't been an issue; but i can understand how it can be.
> 
> Why a V plow? Over anything else? Wide out?, etc...


See Aarons post above.


----------



## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;2140635 said:


> V-plow because when in V mode the bulk of the plow folds around the tractor giving less obstruction than a straight blade or pusher
> 
> i m thinking about condos and small commercial with this rig


Roger that. But then if the plow is on my loader arms; I can lift it up 10 feet high over any obstructions, etc. For me, the only time there is an obstruction is at the end of the drive; and it's usually 4' high at the most. The loader arms lift it up over the obstruction, then my maneuverability is right back.

Am I missing something? Cause it seems like its a bigger issue for you guys than it is for me...

Serious question here; not trying to be a smart aleck just trying to learn.


----------



## Herm Witte

hansenslawncare;2140686 said:


> Roger that. But then if the plow is on my loader arms; I can lift it up 10 feet high over any obstructions, etc. For me, the only time there is an obstruction is at the end of the drive; and it's usually 4' high at the most. The loader arms lift it up over the obstruction, then my maneuverability is right back.
> 
> Am I missing something? Cause it seems like its a bigger issue for you guys than it is for me...
> 
> Serious question here; not trying to be a smart aleck just trying to learn.


Sometimes you have to learn. Feel free. Give it a try for half a winter and report back. You've asked for opinions and you have received them.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Herm Witte;2140690 said:


> Sometimes you have to learn. Feel free. Give it a try for half a winter and report back. You've asked for opinions and you have received them.


Yeah I understand that; and seriously the questions were not in jest. We tried it last year and it wasn't a problem; that's why I asked if I was "missing something?" It didn't seem to affect us...

Sorry if the questions came off negative any way; that wasn't my intention.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

driving with loader arms is a huge pita for us and really crimps the maneuverability of the tractors. Frankly it makes it harder for new operators to be successful with a plow and can (in the hands of green operators) be a maintenance nightmare for you--wrong attack angles, too much down pressure, tweaking of loader arms from hitting something on the end of the plow or from angling......the frame hanger--its up, down, left, right, vee, scoop and the plow is always in the correct position for optimum scraping and wear

Really that's the beauty of the inverted blower as well except you constantly have to be on the pitching for optimal scraping


----------



## hansenslawncare

Maybe I'll have to try it without the loader/plow on for a couple snow events. Even though it didn't seem to affect us; maybe I could see the other perspective in it.

All things aside when does everyone start pushing door hangers, etc.? 

Most of our neighborhoods have newspaper boxes grouped together on the street where we can legally place fliers/door hangers inside of them. We can reaching 250-300 per hour; and there is a total of circa 3500 homes in this area. I'm thinking of placing fliers out 1x in August, 2x's in September and 2x's October. Right now I have 20K pieces of advertising. 

What are your thoughts on this plan?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Vplow or nothing for me. And my other tractor. 

My operator hasn't hit anything but even he said it was nice running the blower only tractor after using it for a night. 

Loader or no loader, it affects maneuverability and visibility.


----------



## CAT 245ME

hansenslawncare;2140702 said:


> Maybe I'll have to try it without the loader/plow on for a couple snow events. Even though it didn't seem to affect us; maybe I could see the other perspective in it.
> 
> All things aside when does everyone start pushing door hangers, etc.?
> 
> Most of our neighborhoods have newspaper boxes grouped together on the street where we can legally place fliers/door hangers inside of them. We can reaching 250-300 per hour; and there is a total of circa 3500 homes in this area. I'm thinking of placing fliers out 1x in August, 2x's in September and 2x's October. Right now I have 20K pieces of advertising.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this plan?


Since winter has came to an end, I've added 4 new drives, one came from a referral, the other 3 came from a gentleman who plows in the service area that I operate the tractor. I have one lady who is in her early 70's and she certainly puts my name out there with her neighbors when out walking her dog. When it comes to advertising, the only investment I'll make again is in the snow removal tags that display my company name and phone number at the end of each driveway.

I gave the door hangers a shot this past fall, with no results. But once snow hit and people got to see the tractor at work it started to pickup. I would notice cars pull over just to watch the tractor at work, I mean a 6 series John Deere clearing driveways really stands to the city folk.

But one thing that really surprises me on here is I see people constantly ask about advertising and marketing, how do you get clients close together. But I don't think I've seen anyone ever suggest walking up and knocking on a door and talking to someone face to face. I know that when I receive flyers personally, I do not look at them, they just end up tossed out.

This will surprise you, I'm 36 years old. I've never sent a text message, I rarely carry a cell phone, I've never had my company name displayed on any of my trucks. I just recently joined Facebook, although I'm not sure why. But I've became pretty well known in my area without all of these things.Thumbs Up


----------



## hansenslawncare

CAT 245ME;2140752 said:


> Since winter has came to an end, I've added 4 new drives, one came from a referral, the other 3 came from a gentleman who plows in the service area that I operate the tractor. I have one lady who is in her early 70's and she certainly puts my name out there with her neighbors when out walking her dog. When it comes to advertising, the only investment I'll make again is in the snow removal tags that display my company name and phone number at the end of each driveway.
> 
> I gave the door hangers a shot this past fall, with no results. But once snow hit and people got to see the tractor at work it started to pickup. I would notice cars pull over just to watch the tractor at work, I mean a 6 series John Deere clearing driveways really stands to the city folk.
> 
> But one thing that really surprises me on here is I see people constantly ask about advertising and marketing, how do you get clients close together. But I don't think I've seen anyone ever suggest walking up and knocking on a door and talking to someone face to face. I know that when I receive flyers personally, I do not look at them, they just end up tossed out.
> 
> This will surprise you, I'm 36 years old. I've never sent a text message, I rarely carry a cell phone, I've never had my company name displayed on any of my trucks. I just recently joined Facebook, although I'm not sure why. But I've became pretty well known in my area without all of these things.Thumbs Up


I would love to do the door to door sales; knock on the door and just sell. I would pull every card I have out too...local business, raise a family here in town, Veteran...

I could win that sale quite a bit! But....my town has an ordinance against "solicitation." I can put out fliers all I want, but I can't engage in conversation, catch a fine for that!

Great idea though for those who can implement it!


----------



## CAT 245ME

hansenslawncare;2140792 said:


> I would love to do the door to door sales; knock on the door and just sell. I would pull every card I have out too...local business, raise a family here in town, Veteran...
> 
> I could win that sale quite a bit! But....my town has an ordinance against "solicitation." I can put out fliers all I want, but I can't engage in conversation, catch a fine for that!
> 
> Great idea though for those who can implement it!


What about your existing clients, have them speak with their neighbors about your service. If your existing clients are able to get you more business then offer them a discount on the upcoming winter.

Or is this a  as well.

There has to be a loophole somewhere.


----------



## hansenslawncare

CAT 245ME;2140836 said:


> What about your existing clients, have them speak with their neighbors about your service. If your existing clients are able to get you more business then offer them a discount on the upcoming winter.
> 
> Or is this a  as well.
> 
> There has to be a loophole somewhere.


No that's a good idea! Last year was the 1st year with the tractor/blower combo. We wanted to prove to our customers that it's a better service. We'll push them to sell for us this year!


----------



## CAT 245ME

hansenslawncare;2141096 said:


> No that's a good idea! Last year was the 1st year with the tractor/blower combo. We wanted to prove to our customers that it's a better service. We'll push them to sell for us this year!


One thing that I noticed in your youtube videos is that the properties were not marked. The properties that I have that are serviced with the tractor are all marked very well. I use 5' orange snow stakes from Discount Snow Stakes to mark the outline of the driveway, even though you may know the property well without them, it still gives a very good impression that you take avoiding property damage seriously. Also, the advertising tags that Neige's family business use at the end of the drives for advertising are a must.

After this season, I spoke with a few of my driveway clients about what they thought of the blower service, and the first thing each one brought up was they really liked how well their properties were marked off to prevent damage, they also noticed that I am the only contractor here that does this for residential. This was very helpful in adding new clients as well.


----------



## 09dieselguy

what does everyone think about a case 115c? stopped at the dealer today and really liked it. i didnt go to look at a red machine but it caught my attention fast. 95 pto horse power.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Well my farmer friends don't like the red ones but they are much less money than the green ones. What is the dealer support like?


----------



## 09dieselguy

SDLandscapes VT;2141303 said:


> Well my farmer friends don't like the red ones but they are much less money than the green ones. What is the dealer support like?


he gave me a lease option with them. they are a very big name in my area. about a hour and half away. told me if something happenes he will have a new machine there in the morning for me.

i like the green but itsbeen a while since ive been in one and i cant remember how i felt about it. the red blew the doors off the orange one for sure.

what tires does one prefer? these machines im looking at new have agg tires. one used machne has construction pattern and one has turf tires. which ones ate best in the snow. i was thinking the turf one?


----------



## Derek'sDumpstersInc

09dieselguy;2141314 said:


> he gave me a lease option with them. they are a very big name in my area. about a hour and half away. told me if something happenes he will have a new machine there in the morning for me.
> 
> i like the green but itsbeen a while since ive been in one and i cant remember how i felt about it. the red blew the doors off the orange one for sure.
> 
> what tires does one prefer? these machines im looking at new have agg tires. one used machne has construction pattern and one has turf tires. which ones ate best in the snow. i was thinking the turf one?


I've been tossing around making the jump from skid steer to ag tractor for awhile and I too have looked at the green, orange and red and was also leaning red. Can you tell me what you liked more on the red than orange? I don't like how green and orange ala cart everything that I think should be standard, like side mirrors and cab exhaust. Also, just for reference, I looked at both the JD M & E's, and was told by the dealer that the M was a much better drive train than the E and would also weigh a couple thousand more, so better traction. Of course, price increased quite a bit as well. I also would be running an HLA winged plow, and the E was not available with enough rear remotes to run it correctly. Need a total of 5 remotes between loader and rear for winged plow, and E series most possible is 4. Just food for thought.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

*on color*

well everything is a step up from orange--but the orange ones can still make money.

Bottom line on all of them is what do you have for dealer support

Here the green one is a local dealer with amazing support and they understand my business and my needs. This transcends price because at 3 in the morning when you need to be running and your dealer isn't behind you if you aren't clearing snow you are going to be in trouble.

For tires turfs are great in the snow but the rubber is super soft and we smoked a set of front turf tires in <150 hrs on our 4066r JD--we have nokian TRI-2 on that rig now and as the bigger ones wear out we will probably go to Alliance 550's or Nokian TRI-2 whatever works for our current rim sizes and MFWD ratios. If you do have to go ags we find the bias ply tires are far superior to the radials and the r4 industrials are simply scary

so

Nokian>Alliance 550>Turf>bias ply r1>>>radial r1>r4 industrial


----------



## hansenslawncare

For us the Orange was a better fit than the Green; it has a "turtle" and "rabbit" mode within each range and it seemed to offer better control of speed with this additional feature than the other tractors.

We have the R4's on our tractor, and it grips awesome. Not sure if it's because the moisture content of our snow is usually very little or what it is...but the R4's work great for us. Even during our deepest snow fall last winter about 14", we left it in 2wd, never once threw it in 4wd.

That's our experience.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Do you have any steep driveways?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2141819 said:


> For us the Orange was a better fit than the Green; it has a "turtle" and "rabbit" mode within each range and it seemed to offer better control of speed with this additional feature than the other tractors.
> 
> We have the R4's on our tractor, and it grips awesome. Not sure if it's because the moisture content of our snow is usually very little or what it is...but the R4's work great for us. Even during our deepest snow fall last winter about 14", we left it in 2wd, never once threw it in 4wd.
> 
> That's our experience.


I looked into an l60. Nice tractors but the treadle pedal is the absolute worst idea ever. I also hated how long the hood seemed from inside the cab. Also didn't like how it seemed as they didn't put very much attention to detail into things like the lights and wiring. Interior is also a definite down grade from a jd. I think they're nice tractors and I have nothing against them at all. I think saying that they're at the bottom of the barrel is very unfair when there's machines like Mahindra and Kioti out there.


----------



## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;2141823 said:


> Do you have any steep driveways?


Not really...but then again if I did I'd place studs in them...lol


----------



## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;2141824 said:


> I looked into an l60. Nice tractors but the treadle pedal is the absolute worst idea ever. I also hated how long the hood seemed from inside the cab. Also didn't like how it seemed as they didn't put very much attention to detail into things like the lights and wiring. Interior is also a definite down grade from a jd. I think they're nice tractors and I have nothing against them at all. I think saying that they're at the bottom of the barrel is very unfair when there's machines like Mahindra and Kioti out there.


Yeah I guess you'd have to operate it more to appreciate it. I didn't notice a difference in the trim/finish...the pedal, there's another/extension so it's the same thing as the deere.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

no studs--we have some seriously steep driveways and roadways we have to navigate and the r4's were rough studs are out for us as we slip so they grind the driveways a bit


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

@hansens--I ve run them both and there is a huge difference in trim JD to Kubota--lights and wiring most notably on the exterior 

does your l60 have air ride seat?


----------



## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;2141829 said:


> @hansens--I ve run them both and there is a huge difference in trim JD to Kubota--lights and wiring most notably on the exterior
> 
> does your l60 have air ride seat?


Yeah I was joking on the studs. I think it's illegal on most roads.

Yes it does have an air ride; and it has a swivel seat. Does the Deeres come with a swivel. It does move much but there is a difference when turning around all day/night.

Have you ran the L60? Did you notice the "rabbit" and "turtle" mode within each range? I love it man. If deere had that I would have went with Deere; but to my knowledge only Kubota has it.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

no rabbit and turtle for deere, but I leave you with this--want to race your l60 vs. my 4066R?


----------



## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;2141833 said:


> no rabbit and turtle for deere, but I leave you with this--want to race your l60 vs. my 4066R?


Flat out race? NO...but blowing snow, I'll take that challenge.

I'll be waiting wesport


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

you are on--

I have run the l60's with blowers--I ll keep the deere


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## hansenslawncare

SDLandscapes VT;2141837 said:


> you are on--
> 
> I have run the l60's with blowers--I ll keep the deere


What blower was on it? With my extra range I have much more control over the speed than the deere, more torque off the line in high hear too.


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## SDLandscapes VT

both normand 82's

i haven't run either in the deep snow since we didn't have deep snow to run in this season. I ran an 86 pronovost on the 4066 last winter with r4's for one event. the r4's were not good, but the machine owned the 86 in b range. One of my operators uses it in C range and is remarkably fast with it---me I prefer the clutch over the hydro as I could never figure out the roll up to the garage door like you can with a clutch. I don't recall Ryan's l60 having the two range rabbit turtle, but I did have that in the M5 I ran for him. That brand new M5 was less enjoyable than my 2000 JD 5410 and the only thing I liked about the M5 was you worked and ran on the road in the same range.......


----------



## hansenslawncare

The hydros have a calibrator of sorts, allows more responsiveness to the press/depress of the pedal, this helps.

I loved my 82", but I would really like an 86"...


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## SDLandscapes VT

the deere has that too but it isn't pedal sensitivity it's how much roll after you let off the pedal--it's just not the same as a clutch which after you ve had the clutch you won't go back as it is so much faster


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow;2141824 said:


> I think saying that they're at the bottom of the barrel is very unfair when there's machines like Mahindra and Kioti out there.


It's funny you mention the last two, they get advertised pretty heavily here but at the same time I know some farm equipment dealers that will not take those two you mentioned as well as some other less expensive brands on trade because their resale value is so low it's not worth the dealers time.

For me dealer support is important but resale value is just as important, and for resale value it's hard to beat JD.


----------



## 09dieselguy

derekslawncare;2141353 said:


> I've been tossing around making the jump from skid steer to ag tractor for awhile and I too have looked at the green, orange and red and was also leaning red. Can you tell me what you liked more on the red than orange? I don't like how green and orange ala cart everything that I think should be standard, like side mirrors and cab exhaust. Also, just for reference, I looked at both the JD M & E's, and was told by the dealer that the M was a much better drive train than the E and would also weigh a couple thousand more, so better traction. Of course, price increased quite a bit as well. I also would be running an HLA winged plow, and the E was not available with enough rear remotes to run it correctly. Need a total of 5 remotes between loader and rear for winged plow, and E series most possible is 4. Just food for thought.


I will be running a standard 8-10 box up front for pushing with. I chose the red over the Orange for a few simply pleasures. The interior felt much better to me. The cab size was a bit smaller but not noticeable from in the seat. The radio came stock in the case over no radio in the kubota. That's just cheap to me. The case has a much more operator friendly user controls over the kubota. The visabilty out of the case is far superior to me to I feel. It was easier to sit side saddle a little to watch the blower out the rear. The mirrors on the cab were plenty bit to see out of and the exhaust was tucked up nice and neat against the right pillar and it didn't block any view at all. One of the biggest reasons I'm interested in this red machine is its pre def and I can get my hands on it cheaper then a orange one that the cost is more for a base model machine then a loaded out red one.


----------



## Derek'sDumpstersInc

09dieselguy;2143424 said:


> I will be running a standard 8-10 box up front for pushing with. I chose the red over the Orange for a few simply pleasures. The interior felt much better to me. The cab size was a bit smaller but not noticeable from in the seat. The radio came stock in the case over no radio in the kubota. That's just cheap to me. The case has a much more operator friendly user controls over the kubota. The visabilty out of the case is far superior to me to I feel. It was easier to sit side saddle a little to watch the blower out the rear. The mirrors on the cab were plenty bit to see out of and the exhaust was tucked up nice and neat against the right pillar and it didn't block any view at all. One of the biggest reasons I'm interested in this red machine is its pre def and I can get my hands on it cheaper then a orange one that the cost is more for a base model machine then a loaded out red one.


Cool, thanks for the info. I'm leaning red also, but it's gonna have to wait awhile now until I have a place to live first (see "notice of blight") thread. Hopefully will have that fixed soon though.


----------



## hansenslawncare

*Door hangers, fliers, etc...*

When does everyone put out door hangers, fliers, etc...?

The neighborhoods where our tractor's route is in, most of the mailboxes are grouped in 3's, and 5' on the street with a newspaper box underneath them. We place our door hanger in them as do most other companies.

We were thinking of starting to advertise 1x in August, 2x's September, 2x's October and 1 more time first week of November.

Thoughts??? Our website is also on the first page of google.


----------



## ponyboy

It's illegal to put anything on any part of a mailbox 
Not that I care but I agree multi times advertise let them see your name


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## hansenslawncare

ponyboy;2143752 said:


> It's illegal to put anything on any part of a mailbox
> Not that I care but I agree multi times advertise let them see your name


Thanks for not caring. Anyways it's in the newspaper box not mailbox. Completely legal here.


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## ponyboy

Sorry I meant that that I wouldn't care that's it was illegal


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## hansenslawncare

ponyboy;2143754 said:


> Sorry I meant that that I wouldn't care that's it was illegal


LOL that's funny and crazy man. Just messing with you.


----------



## sven1277

Are Nokian tires ok for summer use. I have been contemplating getting a tractor/blower setup. It would be strictly a shop machine during the warm months for my landscaping business, loading company trucks with material and pallets. Would this light use during the off season adversely affect the winter tires?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

The snow tires would wear quickly in the summer but the tri2 with the same pattern no siping should be okay


----------



## fendt716

before you buy a set nokian tires look at alliance. we put nokian tri2 on a fendt 716 last oct. in the front based on every one saying how great they are . the ag tires were 5 times way better. at the same time put a set of alliance on jd 2955 on rear 10 times better than the ag tires way better than nokian and about 500.00 less each. we pick leaves with this tractor for 10 weeks on blacktop roads. put about 200 hrs. on them . with hardly any wear. downfall is leaf dump site gets real muddy and sloppy after a rain. both brands do not clean and get stuck easliy off road.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Alliance 550


----------



## IMAGE

FYI guys I can get you quotes for Alliance 550 tires. Just email me your stock tire/wheel sizes and a shipping zip code. 

[email protected]


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## hansenslawncare

has anyone installed a back up camera to the snow blower or back of the tractor??? Or thought of it???


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2145095 said:


> has anyone installed a back up camera to the snow blower or back of the tractor??? Or thought of it???


Thought of it. Paul Short on YouTube has one


----------



## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow;2145102 said:


> Thought of it. Paul Short on YouTube has one


LOL...yeah I saw a couple of his videos. So why haven't you yet?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare;2145107 said:


> LOL...yeah I saw a couple of his videos. So why haven't you yet?


I think it's a pointless trinket that will always be covered in snow and ice or broken. Kinda cool but I don't think it would really be all that helpful.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Found this on another forum

"OK, I was sold on the idea and purchased one on EBay from China.
Ordered the 7" and one camera.
Cost me $55. (landed) and about 30 days delivery, but I knew that.
While it has been installed for about 3 weeks now last night was the first 'real time' night test.
It was cold, windy and the snow fairly 'loose' and a moderate wind.
Absolutely no interference from snow on the lens (did mount it high under roof overhang).
Cold did not interfere. (was -14c last night)
My rear work lights made visibility so good that I'd spot twigs etc on the ground, if anything a bit too bright but I can adjust the sensitivity if I want.
Only (slight) downside is that my roof strobe introduces a yellow blinking shadow but that is understandable and could be corrected but not really a problem.

If a person had no roof overhang he could always fabricate a tiny 'roof' over the camera (if needed) .

The only negative comment is that the interconnect wire is super thin and needs careful protection.( I ran mine parallel to heavier wire and used lots of tie wraps)
Because the display on/off switch was rather dinky I left it permanently on and wired a toggle into the +12v line.

But now like a passenger side mirror there is a learning curve as 'objects seem further and smaller'. Also the built in guide lines, while adjustable in width, are narrower than my blower is but one quickly gets used to that and gauges clearances just fine. "

I"m going to give it a try...


----------



## hansenslawncare

*Razor, are you still using the camer?*

I found this post from Razor but on another thread/website:

"I had a cheap wireless licence plate frame one on my last truck, it worked ok but only lasted a few months. I had it replaced under warranty but the second one lasted about the same amount of time before it stopped working. I bought a hard wired unit for my dump truck from Costco and so far I have been very happy with it. It has a good size screen and picture quality is excellent. At night time you see as if the sun is out. There is a built in heater to keep the lens clear and there is even a mic in the camera so you hear what is going on behind you.

My advise is if you get a camera don't get a cheap one. Get a hard wired unit. I think I paid around $300 for the kit. "

Razor, do you have a link to the one with the heater to keep the lens clear?


----------



## RAZOR

hansenslawncare;2145114 said:


> I found this post from Razor but on another thread/website:
> 
> "I had a cheap wireless licence plate frame one on my last truck, it worked ok but only lasted a few months. I had it replaced under warranty but the second one lasted about the same amount of time before it stopped working. I bought a hard wired unit for my dump truck from Costco and so far I have been very happy with it. It has a good size screen and picture quality is excellent. At night time you see as if the sun is out. There is a built in heater to keep the lens clear and there is even a mic in the camera so you hear what is going on behind you.
> 
> My advise is if you get a camera don't get a cheap one. Get a hard wired unit. I think I paid around $300 for the kit. "
> 
> Razor, do you have a link to the one with the heater to keep the lens clear?


I don't have the link but I bought it online from Costco.


----------



## hansenslawncare

Getting ready to put out fliers, etc. I know everyone's service windows are different. In my location up to 8 hours is acceptable; but ours are under 6 hours. With that said, what is the max number of drives you all would be comfortable with for a 6 hour window? Very tight route...


----------



## BUFF

hansenslawncare said:


> Getting ready to put out fliers, etc. I know everyone's service windows are different. In my location up to 8 hours is acceptable; but ours are under 6 hours. With that said, what is the max number of drives you all would be comfortable with for a 6 hour window? Very tight route...


It's kind of hard say, your interruption of a tight right probably differs from someone else's Size of driveway, equipment used, ground speed for travels from job to job and typical/average storm size would dictate time and how many you do in a hour.


----------



## hansenslawncare

BUFF said:


> It's kind of hard say, your interruption of a tight right probably differs from someone else's Size of driveway, equipment used, ground speed for travels from job to job and typical/average storm size would dictate time and how many you do in a hour.


Sure I understand.

How about residentials in the burbs...1000's of driveways in any particular neighborhood. 25ft wide by 35 ft long drives? I was thinking about 150-160. Is that too many?


----------



## BUFF

hansenslawncare said:


> Sure I understand.
> 
> How about residentials in the burbs...1000's of driveways in any particular neighborhood. 25ft wide by 35 ft long drives? I was thinking about 150-160. Is that too many?


So if you're thinking a 6hr route with 150 drives you'll need to do a drive in 2.4 minutes, can it be done.... sure if you did every drive in a subdivision, set up with the right equipment to do drives that fast.


----------



## Herm Witte

hansenslawncare said:


> Getting ready to put out fliers, etc. I know everyone's service windows are different. In my location up to 8 hours is acceptable; but ours are under 6 hours. With that said, what is the max number of drives you all would be comfortable with for a 6 hour window? Very tight route...


I would encourage you to be conservative rather than aggressive in setting the amount of clients you hope to service in that 6 hour window. We have a similar 6 hour window and service anywhere from 75 or so to 90 residential driveways, route dependant, in that time frame. Snow Blowing will sell itself, the good service and timeliness that a blower will help you achieve will make you stand above the rest. Bad service will not. I repeat, Bad service will not.


----------



## IMAGE

I'm surprised there haven't been more posts in this thread this fall. There's been more Normand blowers than ever going out to contractors this fall. At least from what I see here in the Midwest. I think maybe after 6 years of this thread that most of the questions have been answered, probably more than a few times!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Nope, you just reminded me of this thread! I'll start us off. My question is how many driveways can a 3046r with pronovost 74" do before it's time for another setup? I have 60 sign ups right now and more to quote. I have 10k flyers going out and 250 snow stakes being designed right now. What % do you guys expect from advertising? If I could somehow pull off a 1% return on the flyers I'd have 160 customers. Anyways the real question is what's the magic number before pulling the trigger on a rental and a new blower? Thanks, Nick


----------



## pieperlc

Is a John Deere 6430 too big to do residential driveways? I'm referring to a customer perspective standpoint. I don't want to intimidate customers if they look out the window. A tractor that looks too large will get me blamed for any cracks or concrete damage.


----------



## pieperlc

pieperlc said:


> Is a John Deere 6430 too big to do residential driveways? I'm referring to a customer perspective standpoint. I don't want to intimidate customers if they look out the window. A tractor that looks too large will get me blamed for any cracks or concrete damage.


Check that. My "lead" turned out to be a scam, not surprising. For future reference, I would still be interested in finding out the answer to this question.


----------



## CAT 245ME

If a JD 6430 is what you have then use it. I have a 6105D, and don't mind the size.


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Nope, you just reminded me of this thread! I'll start us off. My question is how many driveways can a 3046r with pronovost 74" do before it's time for another setup? I have 60 sign ups right now and more to quote. I have 10k flyers going out and 250 snow stakes being designed right now. What % do you guys expect from advertising? If I could somehow pull off a 1% return on the flyers I'd have 160 customers. Anyways the real question is what's the magic number before pulling the trigger on a rental and a new blower? Thanks, Nick


If you were to add a second blower, would it be the same as you have or would you rather give a 4 or a 5 series a shot?, I've watched your videos and you do pretty well with what you have. The dealer that sold me my blower had a customer running a 5085E with Normand push type blower, he was doing 135 drives in 5 hours in a heavy snow belt location.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME said:


> If you were to add a second blower, would it be the same as you have or would you rather give a 4 or a 5 series a shot?, I've watched your videos and you do pretty well with what you have. The dealer that sold me my blower had a customer running a 5085E with Normand push type blower, he was doing 135 drives in 5 hours in a heavy snow belt location.


That's pretty impressive. Probably another 3046r or 3720. 4 series are hard to come by here and I want another hydrostatic. Thanks, I'm pretty with the setup. The second blower would most likely be either an econor 68 or puma 74" which is basically a lighter version of mine without the gearbox in the front.


----------



## Unraveller

Wow, this thread seems overwhelming... I'm hoping someone can help me out:

I was looking at a UTV for servicing 60 driveways + 10 large sidewalks + 10 Apartments/Downtown units.

Now it looks like a Blower-tractor setup might be a better fit, but I have a few questions.

Is there a Blower setup that can run a 54" blower so I can do sidewalks as well as driveways? I know the driveway and travel time would suffer, but I thought it might be an option?

If that's not feasible, where do people suggest I start with a $25k & GO setup? Like I said, we've got the business locked down, but my trucks are getting older, and I'd like to transition away from a plow+blowers+4 employees set up.


----------



## edgeair

Unraveller said:


> Wow, this thread seems overwhelming... I'm hoping someone can help me out:
> 
> I was looking at a UTV for servicing 60 driveways + 10 large sidewalks + 10 Apartments/Downtown units.
> 
> Now it looks like a Blower-tractor setup might be a better fit, but I have a few questions.
> 
> Is there a Blower setup that can run a 54" blower so I can do sidewalks as well as driveways? I know the driveway and travel time would suffer, but I thought it might be an option?
> 
> If that's not feasible, where do people suggest I start with a $25k & GO setup? Like I said, we've got the business locked down, but my trucks are getting older, and I'd like to transition away from a plow+blowers+4 employees set up.


You are likely biting off a bit much with a UTV to do all that. Also, in Kitchener will they allow you to road run in a UTV? A tractor and blower is going to be better for your driveways but 25k won't get you much. If you want to be 54" or less to do sidewalks, you will take longer to do driveways. The Kubota B series is popular for sidewalks as you can get them down as low as 47" wide, just need a narrow blade or blower. Most guys put a front mount blower on those as they have a mid pto. But even a B series with attachments is going to be over 25k


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

edgeair said:


> You are likely biting off a bit much with a UTV to do all that. Also, in Kitchener will they allow you to road run in a UTV? A tractor and blower is going to be better for your driveways but 25k won't get you much. If you want to be 54" or less to do sidewalks, you will take longer to do driveways. The Kubota B series is popular for sidewalks as you can get them down as low as 47" wide, just need a narrow blade or blower. Most guys put a front mount blower on those as they have a mid pto. But even a B series with attachments is going to be over 25k


Yes I'd second that. You're looking at more like a minimum of double that for something nice.


----------



## Unraveller

edgeair said:


> You are likely biting off a bit much with a UTV to do all that. Also, in Kitchener will they allow you to road run in a UTV? A tractor and blower is going to be better for your driveways but 25k won't get you much. If you want to be 54" or less to do sidewalks, you will take longer to do driveways. The Kubota B series is popular for sidewalks as you can get them down as low as 47" wide, just need a narrow blade or blower. Most guys put a front mount blower on those as they have a mid pto. But even a B series with attachments is going to be over 25k


Thanks, after reading through this entire thread, watching countless videos, and many other days wasted, it looks like my best bet will be to start with a machine like Nick, in the 30-45hp range with a 74" inverted, and then have a dedicated person to sidewalks.

Trying to split the difference just isn't cost effective.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Unraveller said:


> Thanks, after reading through this entire thread, watching countless videos, and many other days wasted, it looks like my best bet will be to start with a machine like Nick, in the 30-45hp range with a 74" inverted, and then have a dedicated person to sidewalks.
> 
> Trying to split the difference just isn't cost effective.


I think that would be a very good decision.


----------



## lawntec

Unraveller said:


> Wow, this thread seems overwhelming... I'm hoping someone can help me out:
> 
> I was looking at a UTV for servicing 60 driveways + 10 large sidewalks + 10 Apartments/Downtown units.
> 
> Now it looks like a Blower-tractor setup might be a better fit, but I have a few questions.
> 
> Is there a Blower setup that can run a 54" blower so I can do sidewalks as well as driveways? I know the driveway and travel time would suffer, but I thought it might be an option?
> 
> If that's not feasible, where do people suggest I start with a $25k & GO setup? Like I said, we've got the business locked down, but my trucks are getting older, and I'd like to transition away from a plow+blowers+4 employees set up.


Ventrac will answer your problem here. You would have to find a used one if you only have $25k budget. Ours has the cab, 3pt pull plow, and a 54" blower and a sweeper. It will be equally capable as a B series Kubota (I have done side by side comparisons a lot). It would need to be trailered from site to site, as they are not all that fast.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

lawntec said:


> Ventrac will answer your problem here. You would have to find a used one if you only have $25k budget. Ours has the cab, 3pt pull plow, and a 54" blower and a sweeper. It will be equally capable as a B series Kubota (I have done side by side comparisons a lot). It would need to be trailered from site to site, as they are not all that fast.


Trailering from house to house will kill your efficiency 100x over. Something that has to be trailered will take you forever to finish your residential route.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

lawntec said:


> Ventrac will answer your problem here. You would have to find a used one if you only have $25k budget. Ours has the cab, 3pt pull plow, and a 54" blower and a sweeper. It will be equally capable as a B series Kubota (I have done side by side comparisons a lot). It would need to be trailered from site to site, as they are not all that fast.


I herd they can replace 10 shovelers.


----------



## ktfbgb

Pretty sure Nicks set up would replace ten shovel monkeys!


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Trailering from house to house will kill your efficiency 100x over. Something that has to be trailered will take you forever to finish your residential route.


I've seen a guy doing that around here, waste of time IMO. He would be better off unloading a large walk behind blower. Cheaper than the tractor on the trailer.


----------



## lawntec

Trailing the unit would for sure suck, but the alternative is what? Spend much more on a unit that does 16mph? $25k will not buy a whole lot of speed. Our Ventrac is used for condo's only.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

lawntec said:


> Trailing the unit would for sure suck, but the alternative is what? Spend much more on a unit that does 16mph? $25k will not buy a whole lot of speed. Our Ventrac is used for condo's only.


Oh yes no doubt they are great machines and have their purposes. No matter what your equipment is if you're route is too spaced out it'll never be efficient. I think mine does about 30km/h and speed really isn't a problem with a relatively dense route. All that to say no matter what you use a long spaced out route will screw you either way.


----------



## Triple L

Have you guys looked at ventracs / steiners lately? A new diesel ventrac with cab and blower is about 60k... same price as a 3046r deere


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

I have 4 ventracs all gas 4500s they are great all with blowers,brooms and plows


----------



## Triple L

IDOCTORTREES said:


> I have 4 ventracs all gas 4500s they are great all with blowers,brooms and plows


Do you have cabs on them? Just curious as you said gas, I assume air cooled?


----------



## lawntec

Ours are gas and liquid cooled. 

I guess the thing I keep resorting to is....yes you can buy bigger machines for the cost, yes you can buy smaller machines for cheaper. But the end result is...if you had no budget and you wanted to buy the absolute best machine for the application....it would be a Ventrac. I

In business...the capitol price of a tool is irrelevant....so long as it makes you more efficient. Spend more...make more. Spend less...make less. Simple.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

lawntec said:


> Ours are gas and liquid cooled.
> 
> I guess the thing I keep resorting to is....yes you can buy bigger machines for the cost, yes you can buy smaller machines for cheaper. But the end result is...if you had no budget and you wanted to buy the absolute best machine for the application....it would be a Ventrac. I
> 
> In business...the capitol price of a tool is irrelevant....so long as it makes you more efficient. Spend more...make more. Spend less...make less. Simple.


I would agree, if it was as efficient on a residential driveway. There is nothing faster than a tractor and inverted blower on these driveways.


----------



## Triple L

lawntec said:


> In business...the capitol price of a tool is irrelevant....so long as it makes you more efficient. Spend more...make more. Spend less...make less. Simple.


Says the guy, who wont spend $1000 on a loader control valve to run his blade and snow blower properly and jerry rigged it together with electric diverters.........


----------



## ktfbgb

In business...the capitol price of a tool is irrelevant....so long as it makes you more efficient. Spend more...make more. Spend less...make less. Simple.[/QUOTE]

That's horrible advice. Capital price is a big consideration. If the investment on capitol will never pay its self off over the life of the machine then it's useless. You have to be able to make more than the cost of the machine or you go out of business.

With your logic I could buy a helicopter to blow the snow off of driveways and the capitol expenditure and then overhead to run a helicopter would be worth it because I could get more driveways done


----------



## Mark Oomkes

ktfbgb said:


> In business...the capitol price of a tool is irrelevant....so long as it makes you more efficient. Spend more...make more. Spend less...make less. Simple.
> 
> That's horrible advice. Capital price is a big consideration. If the investment on capitol will never pay its self off over the life of the machine then it's useless. You have to be able to make more than the cost of the machine or you go out of business.
> 
> With your logic I could buy a helicopter to blow the snow off of driveways and the capitol expenditure and then overhead to run a helicopter would be worth it because I could get more driveways done


You're confusing cost and price. There is a difference.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

ktfbgb said:


> In business...the capitol price of a tool is irrelevant....so long as it makes you more efficient. Spend more...make more. Spend less...make less. Simple.


That's horrible advice. Capital price is a big consideration. If the investment on capitol will never pay its self off over the life of the machine then it's useless. You have to be able to make more than the cost of the machine or you go out of business.

With your logic I could buy a helicopter to blow the snow off of driveways and the capitol expenditure and then overhead to run a helicopter would be worth it because I could get more driveways done [/QUOTE]
Now that you mention it, maybe there is one thing better than the inverted blower.


----------



## ktfbgb

Mark Oomkes said:


> You're confusing cost and price. There is a difference.


Ok what's the difference between the two? To me a capital expenditure is a durable product over $1000.00 that has an expected service life. It depreciates over time and once it's useful life is up you can sell it. While you own it for me it has to make more money than it costs. Cost being wether you own it and what the depreciation is or if you finance it being a loan or a lease purchase etc. then all the overhead costs to run it like an operator fuel maintenance insurance etc. If you can't sell enough work to cover those costs and then a profit then it can't make you any more money and your better off not having it.

So where is my thinking wrong? If I've been going about it all wrong then I would like to reevaluate the way I'm doing things.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

ktfbgb said:


> Ok what's the difference between the two? To me a capital expenditure is a durable product over $1000.00 that has an expected service life. It depreciates over time and once it's useful life is up you can sell it. While you own it for me it has to make more money than it costs. Cost being wether you own it and what the depreciation is or if you finance it being a loan or a lease purchase etc. then all the overhead costs to run it like an operator fuel maintenance insurance etc. If you can't sell enough work to cover those costs and then a profit then it can't make you any more money and your better off not having it.
> 
> So where is my thinking wrong? If I've been going about it all wrong then I would like to reevaluate the way I'm doing things.


Does it actually make more money than another option would be a big one. For example does a zero turn make you more money than four guys with push mowers? Obviously it does and is a lot less of a hassle to take care of but just because it can pay for it self and make profit doesn't mean there isn't something different that could pay for it self and make more profit.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

ktfbgb said:


> Ok what's the difference between the two?


You did hit on it. Price is what you pay initially. Out the door.

Cost is spread out over the lifetime of the piece of equipment. Purchase price, repairs, maintenance, fuel usage, insurance, etc.

Does the cost exceed the income that equipment will create? Not the price, the cost. That is what one should base their decision on.


----------



## lawntec

Triple L said:


> Says the guy, who wont spend $1000 on a loader control valve to run his blade and snow blower properly and jerry rigged it together with electric diverters.........


Lol, yet I spent $1000 for my diverter set up. It had nothing to do with cost, rather usability. My existing 4 remotes are the best set up I can imagine to operate the front plow. Moving on...


----------



## ktfbgb

Mark Oomkes said:


> You did hit on it. Price is what you pay initially. Out the door.
> 
> Cost is spread out over the lifetime of the piece of equipment. Purchase price, repairs, maintenance, fuel usage, insurance, etc.
> 
> Does the cost exceed the income that equipment will create? Not the price, the cost. That is what one should base their decision on.


Ok ya I was just lumping everything together. I do get the difference just wasn't separating them. I guess the way I was thinking yes price doesn't matter, I was just thinking about the payment that goes along with the price if it's a big capitol output. If I can't afford to pay cash for a brand new bobcat I would roll the payment wether it's a lease, lease purchase, loan payment or whatever into the cost of the equipment since that payment has to be made every month for that piece of equipment.


----------



## lawntec

Lets be honest with ourselves guys...this thread is "switching to blower service"...10 years ago, the average person had a $1000 snow blower in the back of their pick up (in our area), that how we did residential. Now...we spend $90k on a tractor with a snowblower. At what point did spending a ridiculous amount of money become just fine? Oh right, the same time that someone figured out that the price of the item was irrelevant so long as it generated a proportionate amount of money.

$900 (28" snowblower) = 30 residential ($150) and a broken back every day...call that $4500/month with $0 asset value in 3 years
$90k tractor set up = 250 residential + condo and commercial roadways...lets call that $30,000/month with $50k asset value in 3 years.

Price is irrelevant so long as profit is higher.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

lawntec said:


> Lets be honest with ourselves guys...this thread is "switching to blower service"...10 years ago, the average person had a $1000 snow blower in the back of their pick up (in our area), that how we did residential. Now...we spend $90k on a tractor with a snowblower. At what point did spending a ridiculous amount of money become just fine? Oh right, the same time that someone figured out that the price of the item was irrelevant so long as it generated a proportionate amount of money.
> 
> $900 (28" snowblower) = 30 residential ($150) and a broken back every day...call that $4500/month with $0 asset value in 3 years
> $90k tractor set up = 250 residential + condo and commercial roadways...lets call that $30,000/month with $50k asset value in 3 years.
> 
> Price is irrelevant so long as profit is higher.


250 residential with one tractor would be nice.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

NickSnow&Mow said:


> 250 residential with one tractor would be nice.


And unrealistic.


----------



## Herm Witte

Must be raining...... Everywhere


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I've never seen anyone around me with a 2 stage blower doing driveways, and I can remember back to the mid 70's. It's always been some variation of a truck\Jeep with a front and back plow. Second best way to clear a driveway. 

But visibility sucks, reliability of trucks sucks, maneuverability of trucks sucks, longevity of trucks sucks, price and cost of trucks sucks. A tractor\blower setup costs me the same or less than a truck with front and back blades. Purchase price and truck. Oh, and as soon as you get around 8" or more, your time on a driveway doubles. Gets worse from there. 

Tractor\blowers are everything a truck isn't. The only downside is not always used in the summer, but in reality, that extends the life of the investment.


----------



## Herm Witte

Mark Oomkes said:


> I've never seen anyone around me with a 2 stage blower doing driveways, and I can remember back to the mid 70's. It's always been some variation of a truck\Jeep with a front and back plow. Second best way to clear a driveway.
> 
> But visibility sucks, reliability of trucks sucks, maneuverability of trucks sucks, longevity of trucks sucks, price and cost of trucks sucks. A tractor\blower setup costs me the same or less than a truck with front and back blades. Purchase price and truck. Oh, and as soon as you get around 8" or more, your time on a driveway doubles. Gets worse from there.
> 
> Tractor\blowers are everything a truck isn't. The only downside is not always used in the summer, but in reality, that extends the life of the investment.





Mark Oomkes said:


> I've never seen anyone around me with a 2 stage blower doing driveways, and I can remember back to the mid 70's. It's always been some variation of a truck\Jeep with a front and back plow. Second best way to clear a driveway.
> 
> But visibility sucks, reliability of trucks sucks, maneuverability of trucks sucks, longevity of trucks sucks, price and cost of trucks sucks. A tractor\blower setup costs me the same or less than a truck with front and back blades. Purchase price and truck. Oh, and as soon as you get around 8" or more, your time on a driveway doubles. Gets worse from there.
> 
> Tractor\blowers are everything a truck isn't. The only downside is not always used in the summer, but in reality, that extends the life of the investment.


----------



## Herm Witte

I totally agree with Marks comments above. For residential work tractors with blowers, inverted or otherwise, is a very good way to go.


----------



## lawntec

Not impossible. 

Yes it is raining here, lol


----------



## lawntec

"Mark Oomkes said: ↑
I've never seen anyone around me with a 2 stage blower doing driveways, and I can remember back to the mid 70's. It's always been some variation of a truck\Jeep with a front and back plow. Second best way to clear a driveway."

Around here, people use a Jeep with a broom on the front, or walkbehind snowblowers/throwers,. Plows are unheard of.


----------



## Herm Witte

The biggest plus for our firm is cycle time, time it takes to complete the route. 2 - 8/10 inches the cycle time remains very consistent.


----------



## ktfbgb

lawntec said:


> Lets be honest with ourselves guys...this thread is "switching to blower service"...10 years ago, the average person had a $1000 snow blower in the back of their pick up (in our area), that how we did residential. Now...we spend $90k on a tractor with a snowblower. At what point did spending a ridiculous amount of money become just fine? Oh right, the same time that someone figured out that the price of the item was irrelevant so long as it generated a proportionate amount of money.
> 
> $900 (28" snowblower) = 30 residential ($150) and a broken back every day...call that $4500/month with $0 asset value in 3 years
> $90k tractor set up = 250 residential + condo and commercial roadways...lets call that $30,000/month with $50k asset value in 3 years.
> 
> Price is irrelevant so long as profit is higher.


In your analogy you are only charging $5 to do a residential drive!!!??? $150=2 driveways for me. If I did 30 residential that would be $2250 per day.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

ktfbgb said:


> In your analogy you are only charging $5 to do a residential drive!!!??? $150=2 driveways for me. If I did 30 residential that would be $2250 per day.


Don't get hung up on the price per drive. Long, long ago, there was a 7 or 8 page thread where the OP was convinced some folks in Cleveland area (I think) were lowballing. I showed them 4 ways from Sunday that with my estimates based on known numbers this company was in the range of $110\hour. The OP couldn't get past what the actual charge per time was.

And rates vary. As do length of drives.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

lawntec said:


> Not impossible.
> 
> Yes it is raining here, lol


250 drives in 4-5 hours? 6 tops?

I don't want my routes longer than that.


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

Triple L said:


> Do you have cabs on them? Just curious as you said gas, I assume air cooled?


All have cabs.


----------



## Schuley

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Oh yes no doubt they are great machines and have their purposes. No matter what your equipment is if you're route is too spaced out it'll never be efficient. I think mine does about 30km/h and speed really isn't a problem with a relatively dense route. All that to say no matter what you use a long spaced out route will screw you either way.


Nick, what range are you blowing In? I just got a 3046 and a Normand e68. I have a,b and c. I assume high range for traveling, low range for deep snows, and most of the time I'd be in mid?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Schuley said:


> Nick, what range are you blowing In? I just got a 3046 and a Normand e68. I have a,b and c. I assume high range for traveling, low range for deep snows, and most of the time I'd be in mid?


C range almost always. You'll never use A for snow. B very occasionally for heavy snow but most of the time she stays in high and rips. The e68 will be killer with the 46r. I currently have a pronovost 74 but have an identical pronovost 80 ordered for mine. 74 is going on a smaller rental this year and hopefully I'll have a 4052r for the 80 next year. The 46 has loads of power for the 74 so it might almost be over kill with a 68.


----------



## Unraveller

NickSnow&Mow said:


> C range almost always. You'll never use A for snow. B very occasionally for heavy snow but most of the time she stays in high and rips. The e68 will be killer with the 46r. I currently have a pronovost 74 but have an identical pronovost 80 ordered for mine. 74 is going on a smaller rental this year and hopefully I'll have a 4052r for the 80 next year. The 46 has loads of power for the 74 so it might almost be over kill with a 68.


How many contracts are you up to for this year?


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow said:


> C range almost always. You'll never use A for snow. B very occasionally for heavy snow but most of the time she stays in high and rips. The e68 will be killer with the 46r. I currently have a pronovost 74 but have an identical pronovost 80 ordered for mine. 74 is going on a smaller rental this year and hopefully I'll have a 4052r for the 80 next year. The 46 has loads of power for the 74 so it might almost be over kill with a 68.


Wow congratulations nick!!! You must be absolutely killing it!!! Goodluck this season, things are gonna change a lot have 2 tractors on the road and 2 employees? Or who's driving the second tractor?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L said:


> Wow congratulations nick!!! You must be absolutely killing it!!! Goodluck this season, things are gonna change a lot have 2 tractors on the road and 2 employees? Or who's driving the second tractor?


Haha thanks man. Dads on tractor #2 and my buddies shovelling for me. Almost 100 customers and two small condo type places.


----------



## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Haha thanks man. Dads on tractor #2 and my buddies shovelling for me. Almost 100 customers and two small condo type places.


That's awesome! You should look into putting putting a boss 9.2vxt on the 4 series next year... Steve from Fargo snow on here makes a harness for them... that way it's quick on and off for doing the condos then you have the ability of dropping the plow to do driveways and or a v plow is so easy to manivor just keep it on... The 3 series will push a 8.2 no problem either


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L said:


> That's awesome! You should look into putting putting a boss 9.2vxt on the 4 series next year... Steve from Fargo snow on here makes a harness for them... that way it's quick on and off for doing the condos then you have the ability of dropping the plow to do driveways and or a v plow is so easy to manivor just keep it on... The 3 series will push a 8.2 no problem either


Those are cool forsure. might have to get one next year so the government doesn't dig too far into the pockets lol. Do you think the V has any advantage over one of those nice metal pless wing plows though?


----------



## John_DeereGreen

There's not 150 bucks worth of steel in that mount. Anyone that buys that instead of building it if they have a welder and a brain is nuts.

I would wager that it's going to be a good bit cheaper to do the Boss than Metal Pless, and the v plow will be much more maneuverable than the Metal Pless.


----------



## Herm Witte

We used Steve's mount on a 4720. It is very solid and well made. Yes we could have made one as well but would have spent considerable time building it. As they say, time is... We are mounting a Boss V plow on the front of the 4720 and an inverted on the back. With the V on the front we should not lose maneuverability.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

We've got an evening mechanic 2-3 nights a week so we're doing a lot more in house. I.e. Plow installs...dealer wants 500, he does it in one evening for a labor and labor burden cost of 150 bucks, tops. Doesn't take long to justify his pay saving those kinds of shop rates.

Be pretty easy to measure for the steel and bolts, and get it pre cut and weld it up. 6 hours total?


----------



## Unraveller

Opinions on this pricing: 

$30,500 CAD (about 24,000USD)
2011 Kubota L5740, 750 hours, includes a 80" Provost inverted. 

Being sold in Ottawa, judging by location and setup, its probably part of JR snow old fleet. 

Any thoughts? The new L6060 are $54.000 CAD without the blower.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Unraveller said:


> Opinions on this pricing:
> 
> $30,500 CAD (about 24,000USD)
> 2011 Kubota L5740, 750 hours, includes a 80" Provost inverted.
> 
> Being sold in Ottawa, judging by location and setup, its probably part of JR snow old fleet.
> 
> Any thoughts? The new L6060 are $54.000 CAD without the blower.


Price seems about right. Who's JR snow?


----------



## Unraveller

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Price seems about right. Who's JR snow?


Big removal company in the Ottawa Area, If I remember Neige's picture correctly, they have like 20 L5740's running 80" provost inverted.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Unraveller said:


> Opinions on this pricing:
> 
> $30,500 CAD (about 24,000USD)
> 2011 Kubota L5740, 750 hours, includes a 80" Provost inverted.
> 
> Being sold in Ottawa, judging by location and setup, its probably part of JR snow old fleet.
> 
> Any thoughts? The new L6060 are $54.000 CAD without the blower.


That seems like a pretty fair deal to me, being in the states.


----------



## Triple L

Unraveller said:


> Opinions on this pricing:
> 
> $30,500 CAD (about 24,000USD)
> 2011 Kubota L5740, 750 hours, includes a 80" Provost inverted.
> 
> Being sold in Ottawa, judging by location and setup, its probably part of JR snow old fleet.
> 
> Any thoughts? The new L6060 are $54.000 CAD without the blower.


How do you do the city sidewalk with a tractor that size?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L said:


> How do you do the city sidewalk with a tractor that size?


Yeah, are you guys required to do the sidewalk? We aren't here but I know where Chad is you are.


----------



## Unraveller

Triple L said:


> How do you do the city sidewalk with a tractor that size?


I don't think we would. Either let the summer trucks get some use driving around a sidewalk crew, or I've heard good things about the Kubota RTV's


----------



## CAT 245ME

After this last storm of 12" of wet snow, I'm starting to think of switching to a smaller tractor with inverted and front mounted V. I have a tough time with heavy snow which we see a lot of in Atlantic Canada, unlike dry snow the blower is just unable to pick it up as well and end up leaving too much in the street. My poly cutting edge is naturally a lot thicker than the steel and is what's not allowing the blower to get as much snow as possible. Blade up front would be great for cleanup.

I see the 4066R's are pretty popular and I don't need a loader on a tractor like I have now. Even though it just sits in the yard.


----------



## Unraveller

CAT 245ME said:


> After this last storm of 12" of wet snow, I'm starting to think of switching to a smaller tractor with inverted and front mounted V. I have a tough time with heavy snow which we see a lot of in Atlantic Canada, unlike dry snow the blower is just unable to pick it up as well and end up leaving too much in the street. My poly cutting edge is naturally a lot thicker than the steel and is what's not allowing the blower to get as much snow as possible. Blade up front would be great for cleanup.
> 
> I see the 4066R's are pretty popular and I don't need a loader on a tractor like I have now. Even though it just sits in the yard.


What tractor do you use now?

I think the 3046R is the highest HP tractor that will fit on a 60" sidewalk. Apart from the insanely prices orchard machines.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Unraveller said:


> What tractor do you use now?
> 
> I think the 3046R is the highest HP tractor that will fit on a 60" sidewalk. Apart from the insanely prices orchard machines.


2014 John Deere 6105D with H310 loader which is off for the winter, I bought it from the dealer when it was 7 months old very little hours, I had several lots that was being cleared with trucks and the loader was used for moving snow around. But this year I got out of almost all truck work and mainly just do driveways with the tractor. Without the lots it has me looking to downsize, possibly a 5E. My blower is a 92" Normand.


----------



## R75419

I have a normand 92-280 inv with a t60 long pto shaft and I need new u joints. Do you guys have a tried and true Napa part number or equivalent for here in the US? Expecting snow Sunday so a rapid response is greatly appreciated! Thx in advance!


----------



## blowerman

Whose your "dealer" for the blower? You could try a call or text to Fargo snow.. A top notch guy that will have the answer.


----------



## R75419

blowerman said:


> Whose your "dealer" for the blower? You could try a call or text to Fargo snow.. A top notch guy that will have the answer.


Yeah I called after hours and left a message for Steve. I know some of you guys are very knowledgeable and thought one of you might have a quicker answer.


----------



## Herm Witte

R75419 said:


> I have a normand 92-280 inv with a t60 long pto shaft and I need new u joints. Do you guys have a tried and true Napa part number or equivalent for here in the US? Expecting snow Sunday so a rapid response is greatly appreciated! Thx in advance!


A local ag dealer should be able to take of you and or a driveline shop. Pretty much all standard stuff.


----------



## boutch

R75419 said:


> I have a normand 92-280 inv with a t60 long pto shaft and I need new u joints. Do you guys have a tried and true Napa part number or equivalent for here in the US? Expecting snow Sunday so a rapid response is greatly appreciated! Thx in advance!


Hi there, I rebuilded mine t60 PTO chaft with Spicer 1350 ujoint. there are same size as AG60 u joint.


----------



## PTSolutions

I'm glad to see this thread still going strong and helping people.


Just wanted to give a quick 5 year update since we decided to take the plunge and pick up a tractor and blower.


We decided on a kioti dk90 90hp tractor and a shoule s492 blower combo.


The tractor decision was based more on value since this was our first venture. Kioti includes a lot of options standard that are optional on kubota. It has been surprisingly reliable, having to perform basic maintenance and no other repairs after these 5 years blowing snow. I do wish there was a fender option as the front wheels throw a lot of road salt up on the cab and front of tractor and there is rust there as a result.


That being said, this tractor is a mechanical shuttle meaning that you have to engage the clutch before doing any gear or direction changes. I think I approximated about 2000 engagements during one run through our route. If we decide to stay in the snow game (we have been doing a lot more site work and land clearing and snow work has lost alot of its luster for us) we will be looking at replacing this with a kubota m100/110 because of the hydro shuttle and the operator controls being located on the armrest. This will be a lot easier on the operator versus having to engage various levers throughout the cab.


The blower has also been really good so far and other than swapping cutting edges we have had zero issues with it.


This combo has replaced 3 trucks that would do the same amount of drives in the same time. So if you consider the equipment, fuel, labor, maintenance costs that have all been substantially lowered by going this route you can see how much more efficient it is.


----------



## CAT 245ME

PTSolutions said:


> If we decide to stay in the snow game (we have been doing a lot more site work and land clearing and snow work has lost alot of its luster for us) we will be looking at replacing this with a kubota m100/110 because of the hydro shuttle and the operator controls being located on the armrest. This will be a lot easier on the operator versus having to engage various levers throughout the cab.
> 
> This combo has replaced 3 trucks that would do the same amount of drives in the same time. So if you consider the equipment, fuel, labor, maintenance costs that have all been substantially lowered by going this route you can see how much more efficient it is.


I'll say in my case that after last season I was done with at least 90% of the properties I plowed. I just wanted to move away from plowing and so far into this season I don't miss plowing at all. Even though I do plow about 6 drives, mainly seniors outside the tractors service area.

The tractor replaced three 3/4 ton trucks, I still have all the trucks. One plow was sold a month ago, newest one I had. If I hadn't purchased the tractor/blower, then last season would've been my last moving snow after 15 years. I do enjoy clearing drives with the tractor, it gets lots of attention even from those who clear there own drives with walk behind blowers. I have picked up more than a few new customers that have there own blowers and will quickly tell you that it's not worth clearing your own driveway compared to hiring the tractor for the season.

But like PT mentioned, the cost savings with one tractor is big. With three trucks you also have yearly MVI's, cost of plate tags, fuel (big savings), tires, plows and on and on. Then there is the value of the trucks that decrease each year. I look at what I paid for my 6D with 276 hours on it with warranty remaining and my Deere dealer is asking the same price if not more on 6D tractors like mine that are well over 1,000 hours on them and 2 or 3 years older.


----------



## stevesmowing

At one point I remember seeing a video of someones shop with tractor & blower leaving one after the next non stop. Must have been 10+ in his shop. Anyone know where that video is?


----------



## Herm Witte

stevesmowing said:


> At one point I remember seeing a video of someones shop with tractor & blower leaving one after the next non stop. Must have been 10+ in his shop. Anyone know where that video is?


Search "Neige"


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

stevesmowing said:


> At one point I remember seeing a video of someones shop with tractor & blower leaving one after the next non stop. Must have been 10+ in his shop. Anyone know where that video is?


More like 30+ lol


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

4720 showed up.


----------



## WIPensFan

Geez Nick, a 27 sec video??:clapping: C'mon man...let's see some action!


----------



## RSG

Hey guys, I'm about to take the plunge with the tractor/blower model for '17/'18. I have a question concerning the cutting edges and shoes. 
What is the recommended blade for asphalt, concrete, and/or pavers. What would be the best "combo" blade, meaning a blade for all types of drives. I see choices such as stainless, hardened steel, tivar, poly, etc?
Thanks.


----------



## GW_

what are the legal rules for driving a tractor on the road? 

Has any tried registering an off road tractor?

I understand the farm laws but these snowblowing tractors don't legally fit the criteria for that (in NY) so is it legal to drive them on the road? Local Law Enforcement says - YES. Local Zoning Code Enforcer says - YES. NY DMV - not sure yet

I want to know for insurance reasons, what would happen in an accident on the road between your tractor and another car.

Does everyone just slap a SMV sign on and have commercial liability insurance? 

I would want to have my bases covered for worse case scenario, curious as to how everyone handles this


----------



## excav8ter

RSG said:


> Hey guys, I'm about to take the plunge with the tractor/blower model for '17/'18. I have a question concerning the cutting edges and shoes.
> What is the recommended blade for asphalt, concrete, and/or pavers. What would be the best "combo" blade, meaning a blade for all types of drives. I see choices such as stainless, hardened steel, tivar, poly, etc?
> Thanks.


We switched over to AR450 cutting edges that we had made slightly deeper from front to back. Find a good metal cutting shop and they should be able to do it pretty reasonably. I believe we were paying around $260 each. We had custom hydraulic back blades made for our Normands, so when the blower cutting edge was warn out, it could be used on the back drag edge until it was totally shot.
We ran mostly concrete drives and asphalt roads. Some drives had pavers, but we never had any complaints.


----------



## RSG

Most of my drives are asphalt. What do you recommend?


----------



## excav8ter

RSG said:


> Most of my drives are asphalt. What do you recommend?


I'd go with AR450. Have the new cutting edge made the same thickness as the factory edge, but make it 1" deeper from front to back. That gives a bit better wear, and you can't pull the top-link on the 3 point hitch in a bit more, to make the edge cut/scrape better if you want to and the side plates won't make contact with the driveway.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

RSG said:


> What would be the best "combo" blade, meaning a blade for all types of drives. I see choices such as stainless, hardened steel, tivar, poly, etc?


Depends............


----------



## Mark Oomkes

GW_ said:


> what are the legal rules for driving a tractor on the road?
> 
> Has any tried registering an off road tractor?
> 
> I understand the farm laws but these snowblowing tractors don't legally fit the criteria for that (in NY) so is it legal to drive them on the road? Local Law Enforcement says - YES. Local Zoning Code Enforcer says - YES. NY DMV - not sure yet
> 
> I want to know for insurance reasons, what would happen in an accident on the road between your tractor and another car.
> 
> Does everyone just slap a SMV sign on and have commercial liability insurance?
> 
> I would want to have my bases covered for worse case scenario, curious as to how everyone handles this


Again, it depends..........on the state. There is no one answer for every state.


----------



## Maclawnco

Mark Oomkes said:


> Again, it depends..........on the state. There is no one answer for every state.


In that case, what is your recommendation for say Florida or Alabama?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Maclawnco said:


> In that case, what is your recommendation for say Florida or Alabama?


Yes.......or no.

Definitely a maybe. I think. Possibly


----------



## RSG

Mark Oomkes said:


> Depends............


what does your diaper have to do with it?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

RSG said:


> what does your diaper have to do with it?


It's full.


----------



## RSG

excav8ter said:


> I'd go with AR450. Have the new cutting edge made the same thickness as the factory edge, but make it 1" deeper from front to back. That gives a bit better wear, and you can't pull the top-link on the 3 point hitch in a bit more, to make the edge cut/scrape better if you want to and the side plates won't make contact with the driveway.


Does that make the shoes obsolete? Any problems with rust on concrete and/or pavers? I've read this thread from beginning to end and it seems that opinions differ on this matter. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, just trying to get the pros and cons on each blade so I can educate my customers on the differences.


----------



## RSG

Mark Oomkes said:


> It's full.


Sorry to hear, that explains the crabbiness.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

RSG said:


> Sorry to hear, that explains the crabbiness.


Why? It gives me a nice, warm feeling.


----------



## ktfbgb

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why? It gives me a nice, warm feeling.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

RSG said:


> Sorry to hear, that explains the crabbiness.


Crabby because I told the truth?

Crabby because I didn't answer the way you wanted me to which is impossible because there isn't one best answer?

Crabby because no one can give a set answer for each individual state's requirements for licensing or not licensing ag equipment?

If being truthful and blunt is crabby, then I guess I am.


----------



## RSG

Mark Oomkes said:


> Crabby because I told the truth?
> 
> Crabby because I didn't answer the way you wanted me to which is impossible because there isn't one best answer?
> 
> Crabby because no one can give a set answer for each individual state's requirements for licensing or not licensing ag equipment?
> 
> If being truthful and blunt is crabby, then I guess I am.


You have me confused with MACLAWNCO. I believe _*my*_ questions were legitimate.


----------



## GW_

Mark Oomkes said:


> Again, it depends..........on the state. There is no one answer for every state.


Sorry I assumed everyone knew that laws vary per state and there's no cookie cutter approach. I meant to ask what your personal experience has been in your own state, if you're in MI what hurdles did you have to deal with legally?


----------



## NJKCM883

Great Thread everyone!!

I am looking on some input from all of you knowledgeable individuals. I have been doing the snow removal gig for a long time using a walk behind blower. This year I ponied up for the honda hss 1132atd and i have 15 clients. I am able to charge these clients anywhere from $60 to $125 depending on driveway size. The rates also increase after 7". I am looking to grow my business and am torn between going two different routes.

Route 1 - use my jeep jk with a front v plow and daniels pull plow. This combined with other mods to the jeep (beefed up axles, and suspension) i am expecting an investment of approx $15K. 

Route 2 - is to enter the niche market in which you individuals have all cornered, using a snow blower on a tractor (would be the first to market this in my area). Few things i am unsure of is 1) do i need it, avg. snow fall in essex county NJ is 26" and i think thats on the high side, i think each year we get about 5/6 3"+ events. 2) i am very unsure of how i can get the tractor registered and road legal in the state but i have reached out to local law enforcement for details. 3) for my initial year of operations, would it be prudent to purchase the blower outright ($10k) and then lease a capable tractor for 6 months (any ideas on what the going rates would be)

Gents, you all have me super inspired to penetrate my market for '17/'18 but i would really like some advice on which approach you would take and why.

Thanks much,

Kyle


----------



## BUFF

NJKCM883 said:


> Great Thread everyone!!
> 
> I am looking on some input from all of you knowledgeable individuals. I have been doing the snow removal gig for a long time using a walk behind blower. This year I ponied up for the honda hss 1132atd and i have 15 clients. I am able to charge these clients anywhere from $60 to $125 depending on driveway size. The rates also increase after 7". I am looking to grow my business and am torn between going two different routes.
> 
> Route 1 - use my jeep jk with a front v plow and daniels pull plow. This combined with other mods to the jeep (beefed up axles, and suspension) i am expecting an investment of approx $15K.
> 
> Route 2 - is to enter the niche market in which you individuals have all cornered, using a snow blower on a tractor (would be the first to market this in my area). Few things i am unsure of is 1) do i need it, avg. snow fall in essex county NJ is 26" and i think thats on the high side, i think each year we get about 5/6 3"+ events. 2) i am very unsure of how i can get the tractor registered and road legal in the state but i have reached out to local law enforcement for details. 3) for my initial year of operations, would it be prudent to purchase the blower outright ($10k) and then lease a capable tractor for 6 months (any ideas on what the going rates would be)
> 
> Gents, you all have me super inspired to penetrate my market for '17/'18 but i would really like some advice on which approach you would take and why.
> 
> Thanks much,
> 
> Kyle


You'll need a large number of driveways to pay for/justify a tractor/blower set up. I'd suggest going with route 1 and build you customer base before taking on a leased tractor payment and buying a blower. Once you have the lease cost figured out for your area it should be pretty clear route 1 is the sensible way to go.


----------



## Herm Witte

GW_ said:


> Sorry I assumed everyone knew that laws vary per state and there's no cookie cutter approach. I meant to ask what your personal experience has been in your own state, if you're in MI what hurdles did you have to deal with legally?


In West Michigan we have not had, nor have I heard of any issues running tractors down the road.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> You'll need a large number of driveways to pay for/justify a tractor/blower set up. I'd suggest going with route 1 and build you customer base before taking on a leased tractor payment and buying a blower. Once you have the lease cost figured out for your area it should be pretty clear route 1 is the sensible way to go.


It's definitely a balance......you really can't build up a route for a tractor\blower over 1 year, but you can't really wait until you have enough either.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> It's definitely a balance......you really can't build up a route for a tractor\blower over 1 year, but you can't really wait until you have enough either.


That's some sound advice......:terribletowel:


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> That's some sound advice......:terribletowel:


Thanks


----------



## CAT 245ME

Kyle, judging by your average snowfall of 26" for the entire season, the jeep may be the best idea. With that low of average snowfall, running out of room shouldn't ever be an issue. Now I don't know how long or wide your driveways are, but I know that in my town there are those who clear 50 plus drives per storm with walk behind blowers. Problem is they end up spread out over a large area and in the end struggle to service there clients in time for them to go to work.


----------



## NJKCM883

Thanks for the quick response guys. There is no way i could service 50 drives with a walk behind. Efficiency is key to this business, everything about this thread BREATHES efficiency. Fortunately and unfortunately, i started my professional career as an auditor and have since landed a job as the CFO of a private golf & cc in the area. My life is all about efficiencies, if a task is being performed in an inefficient manner, I am very intrigued by researching and implementing the most efficient approach. 

To me, the most efficient approach to snow removal is snow blowing, there is no need to sit in a truck and keep up with the storm. I cant simply run through the driveways as the storm slows up, thats what drew me to the snowblowing side of things. 

I think at this point until i have a customer base of approx. 50, it wouldn't worth the cost of the blower tractor combo. At or about 50 customers, it seems as if the jeep might be the most efficient option. 

I guess when i get to that point, i will be in a position to reconsider the blower approach. There are very affluent towns that surround mine, therefore i would go out on a limb an assume around 100 drives would be the target number for running a tractor/blower combo. 

Looks like i will just have to revisit this option when the time comes. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread, its been an eye opening read!!


----------



## CAT 245ME

One thing I will add is the ones that do 50 plus with walk behind blowers, they normally have two blowers with them, from what I've seen one guy is clearing a drive while the other is fixing the other blower on the truck. lol, I had one street where I picked up three drives that had hired a guy with walk behind blowers, I serviced my property three times in a 6" snow fall and the others who were waiting were late for work and had yet to see him at all, and they pre paid double what I charge for the season


----------



## framer1901

Inverted tractor blowers - what happens if you hit a manhole cover while blowing a street, a cover that would say trip any plow?

Do blowers have some sort of trip edge available?

Can you blow 4" of wet snow at 15mph? Thinking a 4066 with a 92"....


----------



## boutch

framer1901 said:


> Inverted tractor blowers - what happens if you hit a manhole cover while blowing a street, a cover that would say trip any plow?
> 
> I havent it manhole cover but cracks in pavement or curb the blower jumps up.
> 
> Do blowers have some sort of trip edge available? No
> 
> Can you blow 4" of wet snow at 15mph? Thinking a 4066 with a 92".
> 
> No. I probably can do 5-7 mph with 100 hp in 4 inches of wet snow. 92 inch to big for a 60 hp tractor.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

framer1901 said:


> Inverted tractor blowers - what happens if you hit a manhole cover while blowing a street, a cover that would say trip any plow?
> 
> Do blowers have some sort of trip edge available?
> 
> Can you blow 4" of wet snow at 15mph? Thinking a 4066 with a 92"....


I wouldn't go 92" on a 4066. That's pretty crazy big for these things. I have a 74" on my 3046r so I'm all for going full size but that's a bit much. 4066r has the power but I have an 80" on the rental 4720 and it's about perfect if you don't have those stupid balloon turf tires. Probably buying a 4052r for the 80" this fall because I don't think 66hp is really necessary.


----------



## Herm Witte

I have pulled a manhole out of the ground. It damaged the blower but it was repairable. It would have damaged a back (pull) plow as well. Inverted blowers are best used on drives and roadways generally not at 15 mph. Blowing in residential areas at that speed, if you could, I would consider reckless. The inverted acts much like a pull plow over cracks and bumps. Framer, you are best off using the snowblower manufacturers recommendations for tractor hp needs. You will not be happy with an underperforming machine.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

framer1901 said:


> Inverted tractor blowers - what happens if you hit a manhole cover while blowing a street, a cover that would say trip any plow?
> 
> Do blowers have some sort of trip edge available?


No, you can use poly edges which lessen the jolt a little.

Depends on the blower as well. We have one brand that starts with a "P" and ends with a "T" that we caught a manhole or grate with that resulted in $1200 or $1600 worth of damage to. Have used Normand on the same route without ever having a problem.



framer1901 said:


> Can you blow 4" of wet snow at 15mph?


Not with a 4 or 5 series. Probably would have to look into an 8 or 9 for that.



framer1901 said:


> Thinking a 4066 with a 92"....


Thinking you're not going to be happy. I don't even like the 92" on my 5085 when the snow gets wet and heavy.


----------



## Mark Oomkes




----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> View attachment 170327


File footage......seen et beefour....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> File footage......seen et beefour....


Figgered da posse shoold c et furst.


----------



## Herm Witte

Couldn't have been taken in W MI Sun never, well almost never, shines.


----------



## framer1901

Appreciate it - having a hard time justifying it seems, that's why thinking the 4066 verses 5k. I need it to work in the summer also, I already own a loader that virtually sits 8 months a year. I do know I need to try one or the other though, seems I'm surrounded by tractors.

I seen the sun today, and I hear it'll be back tomorrow before disappearing for the rest of the month.


----------



## blowerman

framer1901 said:


> Inverted tractor blowers - what happens if you hit a manhole cover while blowing a street, a cover that would say trip any plow?
> 
> Do blowers have some sort of trip edge available?
> 
> Can you blow 4" of wet snow at 15mph? Thinking a 4066 with a 92"....


I
We've hooked a manhole with our pxpl blower and it bent the blower housing. Had a frame shop straighten it and add stronger gussets in summer for $1200.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

blowerman said:


> I
> We've hooked a manhole with our pxpl blower and it bent the blower housing. Had a frame shop straighten it and add stronger gussets in summer for $1200.


Huh, you don't say.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Huh, you don't say.


One question....Do you have LED or Jagoff lights on your Tractors?...I can't tell from the picture you posted......


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Yes, hoo woodn't?


----------



## Lovetosail

I have a bob cat t190 with standard hydraulics with a blower it works great believe it or not it likes heavy wet snow the best it just turns the light stuff to powder blowing everywhere bob cat recommends running machine full throttle or the hydraulics will burn up I don't know if this helps but the rear mounted ones will give you one hell of an acke


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Lovetosail said:


> I have a bob cat t190 with standard hydraulics with a blower it works great believe it or not it likes heavy wet snow the best it just turns the light stuff to powder blowing everywhere bob cat recommends running machine full throttle or the hydraulics will burn up I don't know if this helps but the rear mounted ones will give you one hell of an acke


I ll challenge you to a head to head duel--your skid steer vs. my tractor and I ll even bring the little one.....


----------



## Herm Witte

SDLandscapes VT said:


> I ll challenge you to a head to head duel--your skid steer vs. my tractor and I ll even bring the little one.....


I'm waiting.


----------



## BUFF

Herm you may want some  and maybe a couple  to pass the time....


----------



## Herm Witte

Thinking Dillon Brewery. Good place to pass the time. Do they have popcorn?


----------



## BUFF

Herm Witte said:


> Thinking Dillon Brewery. Good place to pass the time. Do they have popcorn?


If not bring your own.......


----------



## Lovetosail

Herm Witte said:


> I'm waiting.


Sorry I was busy snow blowing and never turned my head ones


----------



## Herm Witte

Lovetosail said:


> Sorry I was busy snow blowing and never turned my head ones


I blew snow for a number of years with a toolcat. Still had to turn my head to back up. Remember this thread started with the discussion about residential work, mainly drives.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Lovetosail said:


> Sorry I was busy snow blowing and never turned my head ones


Eyes in the back of your head?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Lovetosail said:


> Sorry I was busy snow blowing and never turned my head ones


Swivel seat?


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Swivel seat?


Backup camera....


----------



## sven1277

So how well will a large tractor/inverted do in rain saturated snow? We just had a major storm in the Northeast. Unfortunately it turned to rain for us quickly into it. We got 4" of snow then heavy rain. I have a b series Kubota with a front blower that eventually had to be switched out for the blade when it started plugging. My sidewalk crews weren't able to use their Honda 2 stage blowers either. Same result with a big tractor setup?


----------



## boutch

sven1277 said:


> So how well will a large tractor/inverted do in rain saturated snow? We just had a major storm in the Northeast. Unfortunately it turned to rain for us quickly into it. We got 4" of snow then heavy rain. I have a b series Kubota with a front blower that eventually had to be switched out for the blade when it started plugging. My sidewalk crews weren't able to use their Honda 2 stage blowers either. Same result with a big tractor setup?


Hi Seven. I blowed that yesterday here in Halifax. As wet as it can get. As long I kept the rpm hight no problem at all. I got a 100 hp kubota with an inverted pronovost blower.


----------



## sven1277

Thats pretty cool to hear!


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Sweet set up but Why such a big tractor? I Dint understand why everybody out east has 6s for residential. Seems like over kill could you explain why you chose that over a 5100e or something? why you would need to go bigger than a 5 series for residential?


Nick, I thought I'd take the time and re answer your question. I had thought about back in the fall about maybe downsizing to a 5 series (maybe even a 4 series) from the 6D Deere after I decided to give up my commercial work and didn't need the loader on the tractor anymore. At the start of the winter I had been thinking it over about trading the 6D after the winter was over, but I changed my mind on February 13th when Fredericton was hit by a major blizzard, when it was over we received 31" but many properties had a good 4 feet of snow from drifting, and lets keep in mind the massive wall of snow that was put in the mouth of the drives from the city plows. It was very hard to work with it, visibility was pretty much 0 and you had to wait it out a while, the city was shut down and plows pulled from the roads. When it finally began to die down I headed out, man it was very deep on the streets, but the bigger tractor rolled through it pretty well. I was backing in drives that again were about 4' deep after drifting, it was to the top of the front tire.

I will say after that experience, it changed my mind, I did really well getting through it as well as blowing it. And on top of that I was getting calls and waved down by people who hired a contractor with a small tractor that was really slowed down from the deep snow, they had to wait for the city to plow before they could move. My clients were all serviced on time, no one was late for work the next morning, I received 0 complaints. I now have absolutely no interest in a smaller tractor, growing up on a large dairy farm as a kid I often was told that it is better to have a big tractor for a small job than a small tractor for a big job.

You just never know when that storm is going to come through that happens every 50 years or so, the storm I experienced broke the snowfall record for one day that happened in the 1960's


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

I will add to @Cat45ME's experience. We received 32" in winter storm Stella and I have almost 200 properties (mixed) with a 6320/92", 5410/92" and a 4066r/82" 

None had issues navigating the deep snow or snowbanks, but the bigger two were less affected time-wise than the little blower--deep snow really needs as much blower fan as possible and that 82" blower really slowed down in the deep stuff and then slowed the tractor down. It made it, but took it's time doing so.


----------



## CAT 245ME

SDLandscapes VT said:


> I will add to @Cat45ME's experience. We received 32" in winter storm Stella and I have almost 200 properties (mixed) with a 6320/92", 5410/92" and a 4066r/82"
> 
> None had issues navigating the deep snow or snowbanks, but the bigger two were less affected time-wise than the little blower--deep snow really needs as much blower fan as possible and that 82" blower really slowed down in the deep stuff and then slowed the tractor down. It made it, but took it's time doing so.


Like I said, with drifting it made it much worse on many properties, 31" snowfall with high winds ended up to around 45" drifted in, those drifted properties were the big struggle for most, for me I'm around 90 pto hp.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

CAT 245ME said:


> Like I said, with drifting it made it much worse on many properties, 31" snowfall with high winds ended up to around 45" drifted in, those drifted properties were the big struggle for most, for me I'm around 90 pto hp.


6320 is ~90 PTO HP and 5410 is ~70 PTO HP. 4066r is ~52 PTO HP. The transmission on the 6320 is the best because the clutch-less shifting allows you to load match quickly. the hydro of the 4066r even with the digital load match is okay but not as good as you might think it should be......


----------



## CAT 245ME

SDLandscapes VT said:


> 6320 is ~90 PTO HP and 5410 is ~70 PTO HP. 4066r is ~52 PTO HP. The transmission on the 6320 is the best because the clutch-less shifting allows you to load match quickly. the hydro of the 4066r even with the digital load match is okay but not as good as you might think it should be......


Have you seen the new Normand Essa blowers, I got to see a couple new N92-310 in person on Sunday, pretty heavy built blowers, I don't know the price on them. But I'd say the Pronovost PXPL looks better but have not seen one in person just pics.

My 6105D Deere has been trouble free with two seasons on it (blower as well), my only complaint is I find the cab pretty tight, my knees are up against the steering column when I'm turned in the seat looking out the back I'm thinking of taking the seat out of it and drilling new mounting holes to move it back more, I much prefer the layout of the 6M's compared to the D and have looked at a couple 6M's recently, I see the new 6E's have a swivel seat in them that would be a nice upgrade, easier on the neck. I have never had an issue putting the tractor in any drives, it's never been too big, but I would like to try an N102 inverted.


----------



## Unraveller

Anyone have an opinion on the Kubota M7060 vs L6060? Both are listed at at the same price in Canada.

Top Speed of M7060 is listed at 25mph and the L6060 is 17mph. The L6060 is hydrostatic, the M7060 is a Hydraulic Shuttle... The L6060 is lighter, and smaller, but the top speed difference is very attractive. 

The Tractor would be pulling an inverted blower for residential driveways.


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## boutch

Hi Unraveller, how many driveways and how dense your route will be?
I currently don’t have a Hydro tractor but used them for loader work in the summer. I use to have a M9540 24 speeds manual and now a M100x 16 speeds power shift. Shifting gears that much in a tractor sucks. l6060 might be slower on the road but you will make that time back in the driveway. plus the hydro accelerate much faster, by the time you are done shifting and get to 25 MPH the hydro tractor you had beat you to the driveway if you have the right route concentration.


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## Unraveller

boutch said:


> Hi Unraveller, how many driveways and how dense your route will be?
> I currently don't have a Hydro tractor but used them for loader work in the summer. I use to have a M9540 24 speeds manual and now a M100x 16 speeds power shift. Shifting gears that much in a tractor sucks. l6060 might be slower on the road but you will make that time back in the driveway. plus the hydro accelerate much faster, by the time you are done shifting and get to 25 MPH the hydro tractor you had beat you to the driveway if you have the right route concentration.


Expectation is about 150-200 driveways next season.

Route #1: 100 or so will be within a 4 mile radius, roughly 40 mile route.

Route #2: 80 or so properties will be more of a mixed bunch, (triplex, residential and small commercial). Route length approx 80 mile. Last year this route was serviced by 2 trucks and a kubota RTV, about 40 man hours total.

The ideal behind the 7060 (or larger like in your example) was the dual functionality. But now that I break it down, it might be better to get a 6060 or 5740 for the tight route, and continue using the trucks for the Scattered route, or getting a larger tractor for the secondary route.

Thoughts? Would you find the power shifter more applicable for snow removal? I am a COMPLETE tractor newbie.


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## Mark Oomkes

What is your average snowfall per event? 2"/5cm? 

Do you receive a lot of heavy snowfalls? 

JMO, I'd rather shift than be short on HP.


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## Unraveller

Mark Oomkes said:


> What is your average snowfall per event? 2"/5cm?
> 
> Do you receive a lot of heavy snowfalls?
> 
> JMO, I'd rather shift than be short on HP.


We have average 20-25 events per year, 65" total or so.

12 in the 2-4" range, 
6 in the 4-6" range
2 in the 6-12" range

Only get a 12"+ event once every few years.

Offical totals:

*Days* *Inches* 
6.5 November 5.1 
14.4 December 14.7 
16.1 January 17.2 
11.9 February 11.9 
9.0 March 10.4

62.2 Year 62.9


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## boutch

Mark Oomkes said:


> What is your average snowfall per event? 2"/5cm?
> 
> Do you receive a lot of heavy snowfalls?
> 
> JMO, I'd rather shift than be short on HP.


I think a 60 hp with 74 inch blower does as well as 70 hp with 80 inch blower. for 10 hp diff i would still pick hands down the Hydro.


----------



## boutch

Unraveller said:


> Expectation is about 150-200 driveways next season.
> 
> Route #1: 100 or so will be within a 4 mile radius, roughly 40 mile route.
> 
> Route #2: 80 or so properties will be more of a mixed bunch, (triplex, residential and small commercial). Route length approx 80 mile. Last year this route was serviced by 2 trucks and a kubota RTV, about 40 man hours total.
> 
> The ideal behind the 7060 (or larger like in your example) was the dual functionality. But now that I break it down, it might be better to get a 6060 or 5740 for the tight route, and continue using the trucks for the Scattered route, or getting a larger tractor for the secondary route.
> 
> Thoughts? Would you find the power shifter more applicable for snow removal? I am a COMPLETE tractor newbie.


I think your combine route is too big for just one tractor. Me i would go with the L6060 for the first route and keep the trucks for the other route. for the first year and see how it goes.

Power shift is well soothed for residential but the operator is really busy. left hand: Fwd/Rev and steer, right hand: Pto on/off, 3 point (blower) up/down, press button up/down to shift gear, 2 lever to operates the blower shut rotation and deflector. Both feet for gas, brake and sometime the clutch to change from high to low range. hydro is much easier to operates and easier to train an employee.


----------



## Unraveller

boutch said:


> I think your combine route is too big for just one tractor. Me i would go with the L6060 for the first route and keep the trucks for the other route. for the first year and see how it goes.
> 
> Power shift is well soothed for residential but the operator is really busy. left hand: Fwd/Rev and steer, right hand: Pto on/off, 3 point (blower) up/down, press button up/down to shift gear, 2 lever to operates the blower shut rotation and deflector. Both feet for gas, brake and sometime the clutch to change from high to low range. hydro is much easier to operates and easier to train an employee.


Great, thanks!

I'll definitely start with a Hydro then. Is the L6060 the largest/fastest Hydro available?


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## dycproperties

We have a 6060 and a 9960 both with inverted blowers. The 6060 is by far the better machine for us for a few reasons. 1 easier the find or train an operator for. 2 fits on all our Properties ( height can be an issue on residential properties). 3. Smoother and simpler to run so less fatigue. 
Only up side of the 9960 is travel speed on a spread out route. In three years the 6060 hasn't run out of power and this year we had over 13ft of recorded snow fall with a 24" storm thrown in.


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## Unraveller

dycproperties said:


> We have a 6060 and a 9960 both with inverted blowers. The 6060 is by far the better machine for us for a few reasons. 1 easier the find or train an operator for. 2 fits on all our Properties ( height can be an issue on residential properties). 3. Smoother and simpler to run so less fatigue.
> Only up side of the 9960 is travel speed on a spread out route. In three years the 6060 hasn't run out of power and this year we had over 13ft of recorded snow fall with a 24" storm thrown in.


Sold!

It appears that the L6060 is the HST most people agree on. So I guess that's the plan.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Unraveller said:


> Sold!
> 
> It appears that the L6060 is the HST most people agree on. So I guess that's the plan.


4066r takes it on road speed and has more power.


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## Unraveller

NickSnow&Mow said:


> 4066r takes it on road speed and has more power.


Awesome, thanks Nick! I guess I'll be test driving both this summer!


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## Unraveller

Unraveller said:


> Awesome, thanks Nick! I guess I'll be test driving both this summer!


And I guess the Kioti nx6010, there's a dealer near here too.


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## boutch

Unraveller said:


> Awesome, thanks Nick! I guess I'll be test driving both this summer!


Ya nick is right, 4066 or 4720 is little faster and couple more HP then the l5740/l6060. but the Selection is much greater in the used Kubota and are cheaper. if you go used Hydro stay away from tractor around 2000+ hrs.

one more thing, turf tire are quite smaller over all diameter vs AG or Nokian. they will kill the ground speed


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## Unraveller

boutch said:


> Ya nick is right, 4066 or 4720 is little faster and couple more HP then the l5740/l6060. but the Selection is much greater in the used Kubota and are cheaper. if you go used Hydro stay away from tractor around 2000+ hrs.
> 
> one more thing, turf tire are quite smaller over all diameter vs AG or Nokian. they will kill the ground speed


Which tire do you suggest?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Unraveller said:


> Awesome, thanks Nick! I guess I'll be test driving both this summer!


Cool. I'm sure either one would be a good machine.


Unraveller said:


> Which tire do you suggest?


anything but the turfs on the 4720s. I rented a 4720 this year with the turfs and my 3046r with ags greatly out performed it. By the way don't get a 4720, they only go 15 mph which considerably slower than an l6060. It's only the new 4R series that is faster than the kubotas.


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## CAT 245ME

Unraveller said:


> Sold!
> 
> It appears that the L6060 is the HST most people agree on. So I guess that's the plan.


Shifting a tractor is not that difficult, lol.


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## Herm Witte

CAT 245ME said:


> Shifting a tractor is not that difficult, lol.


Remember the younger generation doesn't know how to shift anything.


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## boutch

Not difficult at all. But doing 100 plus residential drives and pressing the clutch a 1000 time in 4 hrs to change gears it gets old real fast. Parking lots and field work totally different story.


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## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> Not difficult at all. But doing 100 plus residential drives and pressing the clutch a 1000 time in 4 hrs to change gears it gets old real fast. Parking lots and field work totally different story.


Try operating a large wheel loader in a very busy quarry operation for 12 plus hours each day loading highway tractors and building stock piles. The tractor does not effect me at all, it's just another piece of equipment.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Sure, it might not be that difficult but if you can, why not spare yourself the trouble?


boutch said:


> Not difficult at all. But doing 100 plus residential drives and pressing the clutch a 1000 time in 4 hrs to change gears it gets old real fast. Parking lots and field work totally different story.


exactly.


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## boutch

CAT 245ME said:


> Try operating a large wheel loader in a very busy quarry operation for 12 plus hours each day loading highway tractors and building stock piles. The tractor does not effect me at all, it's just another piece of equipment.


That not hydrostatic


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## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> That not hydrostatic


All day long your pressing down on your left foot pedal like you would with a clutch in a tractor.


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## John_DeereGreen

Why in the world anyone would want a hydro tractor that maxes out at 60-65 engine horsepower to run on an inverted blower amazes the hell out of me. 

I would MUCH rather shift gears in a gear shift tractor than be low on power. 

And yes, I've run lots of hours on machines that require the repetitive motion of clutching. A 100 hp tractor should only have to be shifted a couple gears with no load other than a snowblower between driveways.


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## Triple L

As far as I'm concerned the only time you'd use the clutch is when backing up to the garage door... you can powershift in the driveway without the clutch and power reverse at the end of the driveway and on the street... you push the clutch in 2 times per driveway, get over it, you'd push a clutch in more driving a car in city traffic then blowing driveways


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## boutch

Triple L said:


> As far as I'm concerned the only time you'd use the clutch is when backing up to the garage door... you can powershift in the driveway without the clutch and power reverse at the end of the driveway and on the street... you push the clutch in 2 times per driveway, get over it, you'd push a clutch in more driving a car in city traffic then blowing driveways


The JPMORGAN

The OP is comparing a hydro tractor to a manual M7060. How do you PowerShift that?


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## John_DeereGreen

You shouldn't have to shift it. There's no reason you can't run in one gear for the whole driveway.

And a 7060 is too small anyway.


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## Mark Oomkes

Yes a hydro would be easier to train someone on.

No, clutching isn't a big deal. 

Neither is the PTO, if the drives are that close together, it would be stupid to turn it oof and on every drive. Anything under a half mile and I don't shut it oof.


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## Unraveller

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yes a hydro would be easier to train someone on.
> 
> No, clutching isn't a big deal.
> 
> Neither is the PTO, if the drives are that close together, it would be stupid to turn it oof and on every drive. Anything under a half mile and I don't shut it oof.


So this will be my first tractor, and the goal is to add one per year.

Assuming reasonable route density, Would you suggest a hydro or a larger tractor ( and which transmission)? (For the first tractor only I mean)


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## Herm Witte

I'm chirping in. Marks comments are correct. My recommendation is to get a JD 5083(85) or equivalent at a minimum. This has a power reverser as previously described. Actually not too difficult of a learning curve. We blow snow all night long with these machines. You won't be over-powered nor under-powered. It will serve you well. Road speed is solid and the tractor has a good record overall. Your goal of adding a tractor per year at the outset might be a bit ambitious. However after a few years of building up the service and letting others see your work it is not unreasonable to add a tractor per year.


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## Triple L

boutch said:


> The JPMORGAN
> 
> The OP is comparing a hydro tractor to a manual M7060. How do you PowerShift that?


You buy an m6 or m110gx or equivalent


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## boutch

John_DeereGreen said:


> Why in the world anyone would want a hydro tractor that maxes out at 60-65 engine horsepower to run on an inverted blower amazes the hell out of me.
> 
> I would MUCH rather shift gears in a gear shift tractor than be low on power.
> 
> And yes, I've run lots of hours on machines that require the repetitive motion of clutching. A 100 hp tractor should only have to be shifted a couple gears with no load other than a snowblower between driveways.


So many Compagnies in Quebec and Ontario running multiples 60hp hydro tractor are all doing it wrong. You don't need 100 hp to move a 5000 lbs tractor with a 74 inch blower.


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## boutch

John_DeereGreen said:


> You shouldn't have to shift it. There's no reason you can't run in one gear for the whole driveway.
> 
> And a 7060 is too small anyway.


Unless there is less then 4 inches I uses déférent gear to back up then blowing fwd. I back up my power shift 100hp tractor in 4 hight usually and blow with inverted blower in first or second hight. I'm not patient enought to backup slow. Plus time is money.


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## Mark Oomkes

boutch said:


> So many Compagnies in Quebec and Ontario running multiples 60hp hydro tractor are all doing it wrong. You don't need 100 hp to move a 5000 lbs tractor with a 74 inch blower.


We're not talking aboot moving a tractor and snowblower, we're talking aboot moving snow.

Anyways, I am slightly different than many, I like to plan as much as financially possible for worst case scenarios, as that is what separates the men from the boys. I prefer extra HP for those heavier snowfalls, even if they are infrequent. Not only to maintain productivity but even in the lighter snowfalls you aren't running the tractor at max, fuel usage is less, etc.

Planning for worst case makes simple case much easier to manage.

Shifting forward to reverse and vice versa with a hand shifter, clutching, is not that big of a deal. But yes, training is easier on a hydrostatic and given the right route, I would setup a tractor\blower with hydrostatic tranny. I would still go with the highest HP tractor I could.


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## Unraveller

Mark Oomkes said:


> We're not talking aboot moving a tractor and snowblower, we're talking aboot moving snow.
> 
> Anyways, I am slightly different than many, I like to plan as much as financially possible for worst case scenarios, as that is what separates the men from the boys. I prefer extra HP for those heavier snowfalls, even if they are infrequent. Not only to maintain productivity but even in the lighter snowfalls you aren't running the tractor at max, fuel usage is less, etc.
> 
> Planning for worst case makes simple case much easier to manage.
> 
> Shifting forward to reverse and vice versa with a hand shifter, clutching, is not that big of a deal. But yes, training is easier on a hydrostatic and given the right route, I would setup a tractor\blower with hydrostatic tranny. I would still go with the highest HP tractor I could.


Thanks for the viewpoint Mark, I'm a little intimidated by the larger tractors, and I think I'd feel more comfortable in one after a season in a HST.

The weather here is only about 70" average, and almost never more than 6-8" snowfalls, so I'm hoping HST will be okay for the first machine.

Now I'm torn between a JD 3046r: Because at 56" it can be regulated to sidewalk machine if I want to move to larger tractors for residential.

And a L6060: Because they seem to be the industry standard for HST snow removal, at least in Ottawa/Quebec...

Is anyone using KIOTI NX or New Holland Boomers?


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## Mark Oomkes

Unraveller said:


> Thanks for the viewpoint Mark, I'm a little intimidated by the larger tractors, and I think I'd feel more comfortable in one after a season in a HST.
> 
> The weather here is only about 70" average, and almost never more than 6-8" snowfalls, so I'm hoping HST will be okay for the first machine.


Our 100 year average is 75" roughly, 10 year is 85". And only a handful of heavier snowfalls as well.

BTW, I'm not paranoid, everyone else is.



Unraveller said:


> Is anyone using KIOTI NX or New Holland Boomers?


Herm had a NH.........emphasis on had.


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## boutch

Mark Oomkes said:


> We're not talking aboot moving a tractor and snowblower, we're talking aboot moving snow.
> 
> you only blow snow down hill.
> 
> Anyways, I am slightly different than many, I like to plan as much as financially possible for worst case scenarios, as that is what separates the men from the boys. I prefer extra HP for those heavier snowfalls, even if they are infrequent. Not only to maintain productivity but even in the lighter snowfalls you aren't running the tractor at max, fuel usage is less, etc.
> 
> Planning for worst case makes simple case much easier to manage.
> 
> Shifting forward to reverse and vice versa with a hand shifter, clutching, is not that big of a deal. But yes, training is easier on a hydrostatic and given the right route, I would setup a tractor\blower with hydrostatic tranny. I would still go with the highest HP tractor I could.





Mark Oomkes said:


> We're not talking aboot moving a tractor and snowblower, we're talking aboot moving snow.
> 
> Anyways, I am slightly different than many, I like to plan as much as financially possible for worst case scenarios, as that is what separates the men from the boys. I prefer extra HP for those heavier snowfalls, even if they are infrequent. Not only to maintain productivity but even in the lighter snowfalls you aren't running the tractor at max, fuel usage is less, etc.
> 
> Planning for worst case makes simple case much easier to manage.
> 
> Shifting forward to reverse and vice versa with a hand shifter, clutching, is not that big of a deal. But yes, training is easier on a hydrostatic and given the right route, I would setup a tractor\blower with hydrostatic tranny. I would still go with the highest HP tractor I could.


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## boutch

I love my kubota m100x, I was 50/50 on 60 hp hydrostatic or powershift. I bought it because I was afraid of running out of power. Most of the time I snowblow in high range, that is for accumulation less then 8 inches.

The only time I needed the extra power it was in 22 inches of pack blowed snow, it took me 10 hrs to do my 4 hrs route. An 60hp tractor would have been probably alot slower but would have still got the job done. 

I'm planning on getting a second tractor in the near future and it will be a 60hp Hydro for sure.


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## boutch

Unraveller said:


> Thanks for the viewpoint Mark, I'm a little intimidated by the larger tractors, and I think I'd feel more comfortable in one after a season in a HST.
> 
> The weather here is only about 70" average, and almost never more than 6-8" snowfalls, so I'm hoping HST will be okay for the first machine.
> 
> Now I'm torn between a JD 3046r: Because at 56" it can be regulated to sidewalk machine if I want to move to larger tractors for residential.
> 
> And a L6060: Because they seem to be the industry standard for HST snow removal, at least in Ottawa/Quebec...
> 
> Is anyone using KIOTI NX or New Holland Boomers?


Kioti they seam good but the resell value nothing like John deere. Unless you can get good dealer service close by I wouldn't bother.

Boomer 3050 are about 50 hp and only CVT transmission.

The boomer 3045 is hydro but even less power at 45 hp.


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## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> Kioti they seam good but the resell value nothing like John deere. Unless you can get good dealer service close by I wouldn't bother.


A friend of mine who uses Agco farm equipment, asked his dealer recently if they had seen a Kioti tractor in the shop (they repair all makes of tractors along with selling Agco), the salesman told him that a gentleman had came in a while back looking to trade his Kioti, so the dealer looked in to trade value and it was so low that it wasn't worth it for them.

My competitors all run small no name tractors, such as LS.


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## SDLandscapes VT

I have three tractors one from each category
4066r hydro 66 engine HP, 52 PTO HP, max speed 22 mph
5410 12 x 12 with hydraulic shuttle and wet clutch, non-synchro'd ranges 81 engine HP, 67 PTO HP 18 mph top speed
6320 24 x 24 power quad with hydraulic shuttle, wet clutch, and synchro'd ranges 100 engine HP, 88 PTO HP 27 mph top speed

Frankly best overall tractor for the money is the 5410 or 5085e in current models. The power quad is the best transmission for snowblowing. We all very much prefer the clutch tractors over the hydro for the driveways except the newbies. You will not be outclassed with the 85 HP in a deeper snow. We had stella this year with 32" and we cleared no problem.

the hydro suffered but I think this is mostly that the 82" normand is a bad combo with this tractor


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## CAT 245ME

Well here it is, my John Deere 6105D 24x12 transmission (minus H310 loader) with Normand N92INV-280, after it's second season, no issues. I do wish the blower was wider though, 8' minimum.


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## CMD

We have been running our N92 behind a 7060 and like the width , presently looking at M5-90 and have the same concern you mention. What do you find for issues? Anyone running the new M5 with DEP for blowing service? Power wise seems to be a big step above our standard M7060 tractors .


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## NickSnow&Mow

Well fellas here's my new investment. Tractor #2 has been officially purchased. It even came with a nice metal pless blade I don't need lol. Pronovost 80 inv will be going on the girl.


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## Mark Oomkes

Looks nice Nick.

I really want to put one of these on a certain account that I am using a skidsteer on, but there is an issue with the parking ramp clearance. I think it wood bee more efficient than the skidsteer, but on the other hand, we use the skidsteer blower for clearing snow oof the ramp.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> I told LandGreen over in TC to get oof his butt and get one. Same deal as you.


LOL. Just stumbled across this post.

Thanks to this thread, your advice as well as Steve, my JD 5085 and 92 Normand are on their way. Can't wait to put this set up to work. Already mentioned it to a few of our current customers and they are excited about snowblowing. No more piles, lawn damage. I'm also very curious about possibly blowing out a couple small parking lots in the beginning of the route.


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## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> LOL. Just stumbled across this post.
> 
> Thanks to this thread, your advice as well as Steve, my JD 5085 and 92 Normand are on their way. Can't wait to put this set up to work. Already mentioned it to a few of our current customers and they are excited about snowblowing. No more piles, lawn damage. I'm also very curious about possibly blowing out a couple small parking lots in the beginning of the route.


Welcome to the kewl kids club. I forgot I said it.


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## Herm Witte

Landgreen said:


> LOL. Just stumbled across this post.
> 
> Thanks to this thread, your advice as well as Steve, my JD 5085 and 92 Normand are on their way. Can't wait to put this set up to work. Already mentioned it to a few of our current customers and they are excited about snowblowing. No more piles, lawn damage. I'm also very curious about possibly blowing out a couple small parking lots in the beginning of the route.


Blowing a couple of small parking areas shouldn't be an issue unless your definition of small is different than mine.  We clear a school drop off zone with our inverted making it easier on the plow crew. You will come to love the inverteds. Our damage to turf is almost non existent which is a significant time savings in the spring of the year. Have an enjoyable holiday.


----------



## Landgreen

Herm Witte said:


> Blowing a couple of small parking areas shouldn't be an issue unless your definition of small is different than mine.  We clear a school drop off zone with our inverted making it easier on the plow crew. You will come to love the inverteds. Our damage to turf is almost non existent which is a significant time savings in the spring of the year. Have an enjoyable holiday.


Hi Herm. My idea of small is under 30,000sf. I think it should do fine. Plenty of area to blow snow. Not sure how good of a scrape it will do but these are salted lots so peeling hardpack should not be an issue. May have to throw down some extra salt. I have one lot that is about an acre with it divided into an upper and lower lot and large woods island in the center. I'm thinking we could drive in a circle starting on the outside and work our way in blowing everything into center.

Our main target customer will be resi's in subs. Our market is small up here but as far as I know we will be the only one offering the inverse blower setup so hoping to switch people from their plowtruck service to us.

One question I have for all of you is if you are able to sway those homeowners that normally blow their own drive. Because the tractor is so efficient do you offer a more competitive rate than a pickup/plow to gain a tighter route? Do you have your marketing try to appeal to those that currently clear their drive themselves? Most residents in subs near me blow their own drive but I'm thinking if the price is right we can scoop up several more customers.


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## Mark Oomkes

It depends on what you want to do. If you want to fill in a route fast and can still make money at a reduced rate, go for it. The tighter the route the better. 

But I'm not sure how competitive the market is up there either. 

We are in a neighborhood (for the time being) that has some idiot charging $200 unlimited plowings for the season. I can't and won't compete with that, or even attempt to. I'd like a tighter route, but it's not going to happen there.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> It depends on what you want to do. If you want to fill in a route fast and can still make money at a reduced rate, go for it. The tighter the route the better.
> 
> But I'm not sure how competitive the market is up there either.
> 
> We are in a neighborhood (for the time being) that has some idiot charging $200 unlimited plowings for the season. I can't and won't compete with that, or even attempt to. I'd like a tighter route, but it's not going to happen there.


$200 is nutty. I know GR doesnt get quite as much snow as us but that is out of line. Probably won't be long and you can snag those clients once the company inevitably goes under.

Rates around here are all over the board. I picked up a couple drives (2car 60-70') last year from a competitor when he raised his price to $30/plow. Then lost one customer to a guy charging $15/plow.


----------



## Landgreen

I'm currently bidding a small condo assoc and was hoping to get some input as to how long these drive would take to clear with 85hp tractor and 92 Normand. 16 drives. Aboot 40-50' long. 18' W. Thanks.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> I'm currently bidding a small condo assoc and was hoping to get some input as to how long these drive would take to clear with 85hp tractor and 92 Normand. 16 drives. Aboot 40-50' long. 18' W. Thanks.
> View attachment 173090


Road trip!!!


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Road trip!!!


Better get clearance from the CFO.......


----------



## Defcon 5

BUFF said:


> Better get clearance from the CFO.......


The CFO has put an auto kill on his Cummings...As soon as it approaches the gates of the compound...The Cummings shuts off and he must call the tower for clearance to proceed


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Better get clearance from the CFO.......


Sure...as long as it doesn't involve capital expenditures, I'm free to leave. She'd probably prefer I leave.


----------



## Herm Witte

Landgreen said:


> I'm currently bidding a small condo assoc and was hoping to get some input as to how long these drive would take to clear with 85hp tractor and 92 Normand. 16 drives. Aboot 40-50' long. 18' W. Thanks.
> View attachment 173090


An hour or less at three - four minutes a piece. I have not included the road or the places across the street. Four minutes while someone learns and three or less after he/she conquers the learning curve.


----------



## Landgreen

Herm Witte said:


> An hour or less at three - four minutes a piece. I have not included the road or the places across the street. Four minutes while someone learns and three or less after he/she conquers the learning curve.


Thanks Herm. I'm hoping we could get them done less than three minutes each. My operator drives tractor all summer on a farm so him adapting to the tractor/blower should be quick. If it weren't for him, I would be a little more stressed having to train someone to run it.


----------



## Neige

Landgreen I believe you should be more than the guy in a plow truck. You have a much bigger investment, but ensuring a better service with no piles and lawn minimal lawn damage. If you go with a seasonal price, divide that by the average events you get. If your price is $450.00 and you have 15 events and each event you pass at minimum two times the price is $15.00 per pass. The idea is to come in at a price where the potential client is thinking why am I out here clearing my own snow.
Once you have a client locked in on the snow blowing service, they tend not want to go back to being plowed out. You also tend to increase your clientele in areas where you already service people. Thats how you build up route density. Its really up to you to find that sweet spot of a price, where people starting thinking why am I still clearing my own drive. The other important item is to be very expensive for the people who flag you down or want it done only once on call. These people need to be paying at minimum 3 times more then what you average pass comes out to. There is not enough money in doing people only when they need you in those big storms.
I will end that in my market we are around $320.00 for the season and we serviced them last year 60 times. Thats $5.33 per pass, and most of our drivers are doing 50 drives an hr, so making my brothers $266.50 an hr.
Just my $0.02 worth of advice.


----------



## Landgreen

Thank you for your input Paul. I attended a seminar in Grand Rapids a few years ago where you were the guest speaker. Very informative!

We receive quite a bit of lake effect here and it can vary from year to year as well as elevation. Our tractor will service an area that averages about 28 events. My seasonal contracts in the past have been at $500/season. I plan on leaving them at same price for snowblowing. As word gets out about our company snowblowing, we already have people interested and have signed new clients. I'm hoping with some targeted mailing and yard signs we can gain a large amount of new customers without having to drop our current rate. I have two homeowner associations as well as a private road that is out for bid and have high hopes for acquiring contracts since the boards like the idea of snowblowing. 

It's not normal in my market for plow contractors to make a return trip to clean end of drive. One issue is the county plows are not very reliable. Sometimes it is a day or two before a sub is plowed out. So making a return trip with the tractor may be difficult with timing but it's definitely a huge selling point if we did. 

Flag downs. Usually just keep rolling by. Normally they arent staked and are a mess. But if the price is right...

50 drives per hour is nuts. I've seen the videos. I wish our area had drives that small and close together. There are areas of our town with huge growth so the potential is there.


----------



## Landgreen

Tractor was delivered last week. Took it for a short spin. Definitely need to trim some branches here and there along the route.


----------



## Herm Witte

Landgreen said:


> Tractor was delivered last week. Took it for a short spin. Definitely need to trim some branches here and there along the route.
> 
> View attachment 173371


Looking good!


----------



## CAT 245ME

Neige said:


> Landgreen I believe you should be more than the guy in a plow truck. You have a much bigger investment, but ensuring a better service with no piles and lawn minimal lawn damage. If you go with a seasonal price, divide that by the average events you get. If your price is $450.00 and you have 15 events and each event you pass at minimum two times the price is $15.00 per pass. The idea is to come in at a price where the potential client is thinking why am I out here clearing my own snow.
> Once you have a client locked in on the snow blowing service, they tend not want to go back to being plowed out. You also tend to increase your clientele in areas where you already service people. Thats how you build up route density. Its really up to you to find that sweet spot of a price, where people starting thinking why am I still clearing my own drive. The other important item is to be very expensive for the people who flag you down or want it done only once on call. These people need to be paying at minimum 3 times more then what you average pass comes out to. There is not enough money in doing people only when they need you in those big storms.
> I will end that in my market we are around $320.00 for the season and we serviced them last year 60 times. Thats $5.33 per pass, and most of our drivers are doing 50 drives an hr, so making my brothers $266.50 an hr.
> Just my $0.02 worth of advice.


 Paul, does that $320.00 include sales tax?


----------



## Neige

Nope you still have to add nearly $50.00 in sales tax. The cash market is killing us.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Neige said:


> Nope you still have to add nearly $50.00 in sales tax. The cash market is killing us.


I'm pretty much the same as you with the sales tax, really hurts the price overall.

How soon do you put up your driveway markers for advertising, I waited til Nov 1st last year, I was afraid if I put them up sooner that more than a few would be damaged or go missing on Halloween night.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> Tractor was delivered last week. Took it for a short spin. Definitely need to trim some branches here and there along the route.
> 
> View attachment 173371


When my JD dealer delivered my 6D two years ago, they had a new 5085E Mfwd & cab with loader, snow bucket and push blower on the same trailer, the man who bought it has yet to use it, lol I'm serious.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Tractor was delivered last week. Took it for a short spin. Definitely need to trim some branches here and there along the route.
> 
> View attachment 173371


Very nice...and remember what I said, don't run it for a night if you're going back to a truck, you'll hate doing driveways with a truck for the rest of your life.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Fellas, I think we're about to have yet another advantage over the plow truck guys. I recently ordered a cyclone 82" inverted blower from Jim McKenzie over at capital services. If it works like I hope it will it will require no cleanup passes on the road equalling a 25% + increase in efficiency. I'll keep you updated as we get into the season but I think this innovation will be replacing my pronovosts by next year.
















View attachment 173413


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Very nice...and remember what I said, don't run it for a night if you're going back to a truck, you'll hate doing driveways with a truck for the rest of your life.


I already hate doing driveways with a truck...


----------



## BUFF

Landgreen said:


> I already hate doing driveways with a truck...


So bitter... you sound like a pissd oof entitled minenial or Marci....


----------



## Landgreen

BUFF said:


> So bitter... you sound like a pissd oof entitled minenial or Marci....


Lake effect can make a man bitter and pissd. Hoping for some of that global warming


----------



## BUFF

Landgreen said:


> Lake effect can make a man bitter and pissd. Hoping for some of that global warming


Lake effect.... Mtn effect..... it's like 220 or 221..... it's all the same...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Lake effect can make a man bitter and pissd. Hoping for some of that global warming


I love lake effect.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

How's everybody doing for signups this year? Going to be another big season?


----------



## absolutely

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Fellas, I think we're about to have yet another advantage over the plow truck guys. I recently ordered a cyclone 82" inverted blower from Jim McKenzie over at capital services. If it works like I hope it will it will require no cleanup passes on the road equalling a 25% + increase in efficiency. I'll keep you updated as we get into the season but I think this innovation will be replacing my pronovosts by next year.
> View attachment 173414
> View attachment 173415
> 
> 
> View attachment 173413


Nick,
Those videos really make this look like there is hardly any cleanup. What a time saver. Is the price comparable to the others?


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> I love lake effect.


Understood


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

absolutely said:


> Nick,
> Those videos really make this look like there is hardly any cleanup. What a time saver. Is the price comparable to the others?


Yes, mine actually comes out to be almost 3k cheaper than my pronovosts!


----------



## Schuley

I have my 3046r for sale with a 68" econor inverted blower. Details on the used equipment page.


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> How's everybody doing for signups this year? Going to be another big season?


 Started receiving calls the first week of August, I ordered 500 door hangers, hopefully I'll get a couple from those.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME said:


> Started receiving calls the first week of August, I ordered 500 door hangers, hopefully I'll get a couple from those.


Nice! How many do you have signed up currently?


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Nice! How many do you have signed up currently?


 Probably around 50, I want to get to 100 this season, if so then I will go for a second tractor for next season.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I came across a new 5115R this weekend at my Deere dealer, I wish I had taken pics of the interior, especially the placement of the hydraulic leavers. The cab layout was very well done, the one thing I hate about the 5E,5M,6D & 6E's are how the hydraulic leavers are placed way too forward in the cab.


----------



## Toxic

The 5r series are very well laid out. Had a quick drive around the dealers lot in a 5r100 the other week, was very impressed. Something that has always bugged me is how the utility size tractors (70-100ish) hp have always been several notches below large frame tractors in fit/finish and creature comforts. These new ones are definitely a step in the right direction.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Toxic said:


> The 5r series are very well laid out. Had a quick drive around the dealers lot in a 5r100 the other week, was very impressed. Something that has always bugged me is how the utility size tractors (70-100ish) hp have always been several notches below large frame tractors in fit/finish and creature comforts. These new ones are definitely a step in the right direction.


It looks like the loader on the 5R doesn't stick way out front like the H series loaders. The H series reminds me of the old 158 Deere loaders from years ago.

The 5115R is located at the Woodstock Green Diamond branch.


----------



## Landgreen

I'm bidding a condo assoc and wondered if I could get a little input from you guys again. It's all flat. The areas are are somewhat limited for blowing snow into but shouldnt be all that challenging. I'm wondering aboot how long it would take on a typical 2-4" snowfall? Appreciate any help. Thanks!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Road trip!!!!


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Road trip!!!!


Sure.....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Sure.....


Wattever...


----------



## excav8ter

Landgreen said:


> I'm bidding a condo assoc and wondered if I could get a little input from you guys again. It's all flat. The areas are are somewhat limited for blowing snow into but shouldnt be all that challenging. I'm wondering aboot how long it would take on a typical 2-4" snowfall? Appreciate any help. Thanks!
> View attachment 173634


I'd say about 1 to 1.25 hours.


----------



## Landgreen

excav8ter said:


> I'd say about 1 to 1.25 hours.


 Ok thanks. Thats exactly what I was thinking. Going to bid a little on the higher side since my goal is drives and not HOA's. And this one is a little off our planned route.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Road trip!!!!


I suppose I have to take you wine tasting....


----------



## Herm Witte

I would not disagree with Excav8ters assesment.


----------



## BUFF

Landgreen said:


> I suppose I have to take you wine tasting....


Can't forget the Basket shop stop and Antiquing....


----------



## TetonSnow

Newbie here. Jumped head first in to the inverted blower game this year and got an orange m6-111 and a 102” normand. Been managing snow removal for a landscape contractor in town for the last 3 years, left and went out on my own, I’m the first guy in the valley that will be using inverted blowers on ag tractors. Spent all year going all over this site, among others, trying to find all the advice I could. Hoping to hear from some of the inverted blower veterans on a couple of the most important things they’d tell a newbie just starting out. Hope this is an ok place to post this.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

TetonSnow said:


> Newbie here. Jumped head first in to the inverted blower game this year and got an orange m6-111 and a 102" normand. Been managing snow removal for a landscape contractor in town for the last 3 years, left and went out on my own, I'm the first guy in the valley that will be using inverted blowers on ag tractors. Spent all year going all over this site, among others, trying to find all the advice I could. Hoping to hear from some of the inverted blower veterans on a couple of the most important things they'd tell a newbie just starting out. Hope this is an ok place to post this.


Welcome...by "valley" and your name, do you mean Teton Valley?

If so, pics are mandatory or you're going to be banned.


----------



## TetonSnow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Welcome...by "valley" and your name, do you mean Teton Valley?
> 
> If so, pics are mandatory or you're going to be banned.


Hahahaha, teton county wyoming is correct. And my view at work this morning.


----------



## Defcon 5

That picture blows away Buffys little hill pictures....Beautiful....Welcome


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Road trip!!!!


Too bad im Busy


----------



## Mark Oomkes

TetonSnow said:


> View attachment 173702
> 
> 
> Hahahaha, teton county wyoming is correct. And my view at work this morning.


You are a very fortunate man. And I would think a tractor\blower would be a fantastic machine for your area.

There used to be a regular poster from Jackson Hole, but he retired due to back problems and lives in Georgia last I heard.


----------



## BUFF

Defcon 5 said:


> That picture blows away Buffys little hill pictures....Beautiful....Welcome


They are the Tetons..... and always stop on the north side of Togwotee to take in the view before heading into the valley.
Here's the view I'm referring too


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> They are the Tetons..... and always stop on the north side of Togwotee to take in the view before heading into the valley.
> Here's the view I'm referring too
> View attachment 173711


Togwotee is beautiful riding. I've only had the pleasure of doing it once.

I did not see any blowing services while I was there.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Togwotee is beautiful riding. I've only had the pleasure of doing it once.
> 
> I did not see any blowing services while I was there.


Had aboot a 10yr period I rode there a couple times a year, twas easy since I'd drop the wife and kids oof in Lander on the way through.
They did us a blower on a skid to keep the roads between the cabins open (blow back banks/piles) when it was really deep snow year.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Had aboot a 10yr period I rode there a couple times a year, twas easy since I'd drop the wife and kids oof in Lander on the way through.
> They did us a blower on a skid to keep the roads between the cabins open (blow back banks/piles) when it was really deep snow year.


They could have used a blower service when I was there...I had to reach down to reach the nozzle on the gas pump. Not sure how they were filling the tanks, because only the top part of the pump--where the number dealies are--were above snow level. This was at Togwotee Lodge.


----------



## TetonSnow

TetonSnow said:


> View attachment 173702
> 
> 
> Hahahaha, teton county wyoming is correct. And my view at work this morning.





Defcon 5 said:


> Too bad im Busy





Defcon 5 said:


> Too bad im Busy


Anytime y'all want to get a road trip together I'll take y'all to some better places to ride than togwotee. We can talk a little bit of worn then you can write the whole trip off.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

TetonSnow said:


> View attachment 173719
> View attachment 173718
> 
> 
> Anytime y'all want to get a road trip together I'll take y'all to some better places to ride than togwotee. We can talk a little bit of worn then you can write the whole trip off.


I'm on my way...


----------



## BUFF

TetonSnow said:


> View attachment 173719
> View attachment 173718
> 
> 
> Anytime y'all want to get a road trip together I'll take y'all to some better places to ride than togwotee. We can talk a little bit of worn then you can write the whole trip off.


You'll soon learn people back east won't show. Me in the other hand will, I haven't been to the hill climbs in town for a couple years but could be enticed to go this year....


----------



## R75419

20 years ago I was a sled guide in the Snowys, I could be persuaded to leave Flatland here in Ohio for a few days. I'll fly in, Buff can stop off at my buddies ranch in Albany county and grab me one of his RMKs. I'm ready for some backcountry powder. Oomkes can meet me in Detroit for the flight.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I'll drive...I don't like to fly.


----------



## TetonSnow

Jan and Feb have been the best months over the last 4 winters. Hill climb week can be iffy in terms of snow quality.


----------



## BUFF

TetonSnow said:


> View attachment 173719
> View attachment 173718
> 
> 
> Anytime y'all want to get a road trip together I'll take y'all to some better places to ride than togwotee. We can talk a little bit of worn then you can write the whole trip off.


Alpine is a favorite place to ride, I'd hook up with Troy Johnson from TJ's and ride oot of his shop. I have to say they have some pretty gnarly chutes and bowls to ride if you don't mind a 60-70degree slopes. Having some form of boost is a huge plus.



R75419 said:


> 20 years ago I was a sled guide in the Snowys, I could be persuaded to leave Flatland here in Ohio for a few days. I'll fly in, Buff can stop off at my buddies ranch in Albany county and grab me one of his RMKs. I'm ready for some backcountry powder. Oomkes can meet me in Detroit for the flight.


The Snowy's is aboot an hour, forty five min from my place and the parking lot at Snowy Mtn lodge. I guided for Kody at Snowny Mtn Tours for many years. I also go there during the summer camping/fishing and you'd be amazed at the size of the rocks by the gap lakes, they're the size of school buses in the summer.....

Funny things aboot mtn sleds with a turbo or supercharger they're like snow blowers, the tracks move a large amount of snow licitly split like.....My supercharged Apex would rooster tail snow 30<> feet in the air and my big bore Viper would easily do 20ft.


----------



## TetonSnow

Question about time. I'm Wondering if my projected time involved is going to be close to actual time involved. I've run figures based on different travel speeds and different efficiency percentages based on the size of inverted blower I've got coming, to give me different sq ft of snow blown per hour or minute. I also know that type of snow and amount and intricacies of the driveway can affect the time involved. But was wondering if you all could tell me how much time you would allow for to blow the property in the photo, with say, 3-6 inches of snow? The sq footage is 32,248. The length of the drive coming in to the house is 1500ft and about 12ft wide.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

TetonSnow said:


> View attachment 173792
> Question about time. I'm Wondering if my projected time involved is going to be close to actual time involved. I've run figures based on different travel speeds and different efficiency percentages based on the size of inverted blower I've got coming, to give me different sq ft of snow blown per hour or minute. I also know that type of snow and amount and intricacies of the driveway can affect the time involved. But was wondering if you all could tell me how much time you would allow for to blow the property in the photo, with say, 3-6 inches of snow? The sq footage is 32,248. The length of the drive coming in to the house is 1500ft and about 12ft wide.


Maybe I missed it...what are you using for a tractor and blower? HP and width.


----------



## TetonSnow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Maybe I missed it...what are you using for a tractor and blower? HP and width.


Sorry, I posted it a couple pages back. Kubota m6-111 and 102" normand.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

TetonSnow said:


> Sorry, I posted it a couple pages back. Kubota m6-111 and 102" normand.


Yeah, well...my memory sucks and now that you say it I remember it.

Give me a bit and I'll see what I can come up with for guesstimates.


----------



## Schuley

I've been scanning threads and can't seem to find where everyone was talking about tires....So here comes a post. 

What tires do you recommend? 4066r. Comes with the industrial tires, but see a lot of guys run a turf type tire. Suggestions?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Schuley said:


> I've been scanning threads and can't seem to find where everyone was talking about tires....So here comes a post.
> 
> What tires do you recommend? 4066r. Comes with the industrial tires, but see a lot of guys run a turf type tire. Suggestions?


Avoid turf tires on 4 series tractors like the plague. They are big balloons and have horrible traction. We rented a 4720 with turfs last year and it was horrible. My 4066r has loaded industrials, no idea how it will perform but we will see.


----------



## framer1901

I'm curious on tires too - heard that about the turfs too. Called Paul who got me a guy from Nokians number who I talked to today - man I wish I knew French... He said he'd have me something tomorrow info wise..


----------



## Schuley

framer1901 said:


> I'm curious on tires too - heard that about the turfs too. Called Paul who got me a guy from Nokians number who I talked to today - man I wish I knew French... He said he'd have me something tomorrow info wise..


Did you come up with anything?


----------



## Herm Witte

Schuley said:


> Did you come up with anything?


I operated a 4720 last winter. We have a Boss V Plow and six suitcase weights on the front and a Normand Inverted on the back with normal ag tires. The front skated around quite a bit and we had traction issues so we replaced the front tires with Cooper Discoverer tires. It worked out well for us. I hope I attached the correct pictures.


Schuley said:


> Did you come up with anything?


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Avoid turf tires on 4 series tractors like the plague. They are big balloons and have horrible traction. We rented a 4720 with turfs last year and it was horrible. My 4066r has loaded industrials, no idea how it will perform but we will see.


Nick our turfs other than the wear were/are very much superior to the r4's. We are going to sipe all the r4's and the ags this year to hopefully make them better. The nokians are best but they fit only the r1 ag tire rim options


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Schuley said:


> I've been scanning threads and can't seem to find where everyone was talking about tires....So here comes a post.
> 
> What tires do you recommend? 4066r. Comes with the industrial tires, but see a lot of guys run a turf type tire. Suggestions?


If you still can order it with r1 ag tires on it and load the rears. Sipe all of the tire lugs and wear those out first. You will then have plug and play rims for Nokian tyres tri or tri 2


----------



## framer1901

Schuley said:


> I've been scanning threads and can't seem to find where everyone was talking about tires....So here comes a post.
> 
> What tires do you recommend? 4066r. Comes with the industrial tires, but see a lot of guys run a turf type tire. Suggestions?


Busy time of year here - The Nokian Quebec guy oughta get paid twice what he does, and then some. He is getting me in contact with someone from the US side - I do believe there is more to it than that as we're trying to get Kubota to supply the tires like they do in Canada. I'm trying to attach the brochure he sent me, same stuff on their website.

There's a few people here locally that can get those tires, again, I'm trying to get the tractor delivered with them, we'll see what happens.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

framer1901 said:


> Busy time of year here - The Nokian Quebec guy oughta get paid twice what he does, and then some. He is getting me in contact with someone from the US side - I do believe there is more to it than that as we're trying to get Kubota to supply the tires like they do in Canada. I'm trying to attach the brochure he sent me, same stuff on their website.
> 
> There's a few people here locally that can get those tires, again, I'm trying to get the tractor delivered with them, we'll see what happens.


Kubota might play ball, John Deere will be entirely up to your dealer and there will be an upcharge


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

SDLandscapes VT said:


> Kubota might play ball, John Deere will be entirely up to your dealer and there will be an upcharge


Also Nokian has an office here in Colchester 802-655-8030 but they sell only to distributors then to installers, but they might be able to better answer technical questions and Kubota type questions


----------



## Mark Oomkes

SDLandscapes VT said:


> Kubota might play ball, John Deere will be entirely up to your dealer and there will be an upcharge


If the tyres cost more, it only makes sense.

My Deere dealer got me Firestones on my 244 instead of the R4's.


----------



## Herm Witte

framer1901 said:


> Busy time of year here - The Nokian Quebec guy oughta get paid twice what he does, and then some. He is getting me in contact with someone from the US side - I do believe there is more to it than that as we're trying to get Kubota to supply the tires like they do in Canada. I'm trying to attach the brochure he sent me, same stuff on their website.
> 
> There's a few people here locally that can get those tires, again, I'm trying to get the tractor delivered with them, we'll see what happens.


I was told by the Nokian Tire people at a SIMA event that they are available through Snyders Tires in Marne.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Herm Witte said:


> I was told by the Nokian Tire people at a SIMA event that they are available through Snyders Tires in Marne.


They are...Wonderland can get them as well.

I think Snyders has better availability\turnaround time.


----------



## Unraveller

Weird Question for the Tractor guys:

How do you handle the fuel situation?
- Do you the drivers fill up on their way out, or as needed?
- Do you drive each tractor down to a station?
- Do you keep a diesel tank on site?
- Do you have a diesel tank on a truck?

It's bad enough with the pickup trucks, how do you guys handle the tractor fuel?


----------



## BUFF

Unraveller said:


> Weird Question for the Tractor guys:
> 
> How do you handle the fuel situation?
> - Do you the drivers fill up on their way out, or as needed?
> - Do you drive each tractor down to a station?
> - Do you keep a diesel tank on site?
> - Do you have a diesel tank on a truck?
> 
> It's bad enough with the pickup trucks, how do you guys handle the tractor fuel?


Fill up at the shop on the way oot and transfer tank in truck to keep them going when needed.


----------



## Herm Witte

Unraveller said:


> Weird Question for the Tractor guys:
> 
> How do you handle the fuel situation?
> - Do you the drivers fill up on their way out, or as needed?
> - Do you drive each tractor down to a station?
> - Do you keep a diesel tank on site?
> - Do you have a diesel tank on a truck?
> 
> It's bad enough with the pickup trucks, how do you guys handle the tractor fuel?


A little bit of all of the above. Generally we fill up at the service station after the event. Typically the tractors run time per fill up is greater than our trucks.


----------



## SDLandscapes VT

Station on the route that is 24 hours. Fill as needed through the event and always put the tractor away full at the end of the event.


----------



## Landgreen

Curious what type of extra lighting is needed. Is stock enough or is there areas that need extra light like off to the sides to see where snow is landing? What about light reflecting off the chute? I remember reading a post in this thread aboot it. Maybe why Marko put a big LED on the back of his blower and avoid using rear cab lights?


----------



## Herm Witte

Landgreen said:


> Curious what type of extra lighting is needed. Is stock enough or is there areas that need extra light like off to the sides to see where snow is landing? What about light reflecting off the chute? I remember reading a post in this thread aboot it. Maybe why Marko put a big LED on the back of his blower and avoid using rear cab lights?


Mark likes lights.  Our 5085's as is but we did upgrade our 4720.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Curious what type of extra lighting is needed. Is stock enough or is there areas that need extra light like off to the sides to see where snow is landing? What about light reflecting off the chute? I remember reading a post in this thread aboot it. Maybe why Marko put a big LED on the back of his blower and avoid using rear cab lights?


We use the cab lights and the jagoof light bar on the blower. That way the blower chute isn't casting shadows.


----------



## Landgreen

Ok thanks.

Jagoof bar. Interesting... Not googling it.


----------



## BUFF

Landgreen said:


> Ok thanks.
> 
> Jagoof bar. Interesting... Not googling it.


Good call......


----------



## Defcon 5

Landgreen said:


> Ok thanks.
> 
> Jagoof bar. Interesting... Not googling it.


Why not???......Just a picture of Mark comes up


----------



## BUFF

Defcon 5 said:


> Why not???......Just a picture of Mark comes up


Didn't you deplete your daily quota earlier.....:laugh:


----------



## Mike NY

Looking for insight from experienced current operations.
I find this business model appealing, I've been in the snow business for over 35 years, and I am trying to figure out the feasibility for my area. One series of questions I'm having trouble getting a definitive answer with is related to the legality of operating tractors on the road as far as registration and plating(tags)(tried DMV, State and local police. Nobody knows!) Anyone from New York? Whats your areas requirements? Second question will be addressed with my own Insurance co. but, how are you covered? Business auto as "listed vehicles" or General liability? PM?


----------



## Herm Witte

Mike NY said:


> Looking for insight from experienced current operations.
> I find this business model appealing, I've been in the snow business for over 35 years, and I am trying to figure out the feasibility for my area. One series of questions I'm having trouble getting a definitive answer with is related to the legality of operating tractors on the road as far as registration and plating(tags)(tried DMV, State and local police. Nobody knows!) Anyone from New York? Whats your areas requirements? Second question will be addressed with my own Insurance co. but, how are you covered? Business auto as "listed vehicles" or General liability? PM?


Our tractors are not licensed and our firm has not had an issue with that in West Michigan, we just use slow moving vehicle signage. As far as insurance, the equipment is added to our commercial contractors equipment policy and also our general liability policy. I think I had operated our business for thirty five years as well before we moved towards tractors and inverted snowblowers. We are now entering our eighth year. You will not be sorry.


----------



## CAT 245ME

CAT 245ME said:


> Started receiving calls the first week of August, I ordered 500 door hangers, hopefully I'll get a couple from those.


Well an update on the door hangers, I distributed 300 of the 500 I ordered and acquired 3 new clients from those, lol better than nothing though hopefully a few of those will call before the first snowfall. Anyone else have any success with door hangers.


----------



## Unraveller

CAT 245ME said:


> Well an update on the door hangers, I distributed 300 of the 500 I ordered and acquired 3 new clients from those, lol better than nothing though hopefully a few of those will call before the first snowfall. Anyone else have any success with door hangers.


I'm dropping 10k off next week. and 30K regular flyers. I'll let you know.


----------



## Enzo

Hey everyone I wanted to see how everybody handles their shoveling. Here in CT every home we have requires some type of shoveling whether we just do their city walks or their walkway to front door with steps and in front of the garage from what the blower can't reach. We bought and sold within 6 month our bobcat s70 with blower because trailering that around was bad enough let alone the s70 had no balls and was always clogging up. This year we are going to try out a kubota bx2200 with 48" pto blower on front for our commercial and residential city walks. We still have the issue of in front of garage doors and the walkways to their front doors. We went up on the pricing and all the customers renewed except for maybe 3 or 4 out of 60. I don't want to offer shoveling but I'm afraid we will lose more than half of our clients. Any thoughts??


----------



## Enzo

CAT 245ME said:


> Well an update on the door hangers, I distributed 300 of the 500 I ordered and acquired 3 new clients from those, lol better than nothing though hopefully a few of those will call before the first snowfall. Anyone else have any success with door hangers.


We handed out about 2000 door hangers and picked up about 20 driveways. Usually you will see a 1% return. Same goes for direct mailers at least for us. We stopped advertising as we show up number one on google in our town for landscaping and snow removal which 90% of our calls come from.


----------



## Herm Witte

If your pricing allows the equipment operator have him or her do it. Otherwise a dedicated shovel crew or two. We have shovel crews.


----------



## Enzo

Herm Witte said:


> If your pricing allows the equipment operator have him or her do it. Otherwise a dedicated shovel crew or two. We have shovel crews.


Yea we do have two guys that go out with a truck and a few toros but still I rather have them doing parking lots or even better more tractors doing more driveways haha.


----------



## Unraveller

Chute Controls on the joystick:

Anyone do this? 

I saw a comment on it buried on like page 67, but I haven't seen any other discussion of it.


----------



## Herm Witte

Yes. We have done it.


----------



## Unraveller

Herm Witte said:


> Yes. We have done it.


Which do you prefer?


----------



## Herm Witte

Rear remote levers. Ideally (which I don't have) specific valving with toggles for all functions.


----------



## CUCV

I have my chute plumbed to my loader controls, I feel its more intuitive than the remote levers especially when you have 3 levers for an Xpro blade.


----------



## Landgreen

CAT 245ME said:


> Well an update on the door hangers, I distributed 300 of the 500 I ordered and acquired 3 new clients from those, lol better than nothing though hopefully a few of those will call before the first snowfall. Anyone else have any success with door hangers.


Haven't tried door hangers. We sent 700 targeted mailers. Landed 10 customers which was my goal for them. I planted a few yard signs that netted three new customers. Another 7 from word of mouth. Total of 20. Route is at 53 drives plus 46 condo drives. Getting there.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> Haven't tried door hangers. We sent 700 targeted mailers. Landed 10 customers which was my goal for them. I planted a few yard signs that netted three new customers. Another 7 from word of mouth. Total of 20. Route is at 53 drives plus 46 condo drives. Getting there.


How much weight do you have on the front of your 5E?


----------



## Landgreen

CAT 245ME said:


> How much weight do you have on the front of your 5E?


Around 1,200#


----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> Around 1,200#


I've ran the last two seasons with no front weight on my 6D, it is on the light side as expected, a weight bracket is 185 lbs price $790 cdn plus 15% tax. I figure I'm gonna spend over 2k on weights. Front fenders is something else that should be added.


----------



## Landgreen

CAT 245ME said:


> I've ran the last two seasons with no front weight on my 6D, it is on the light side as expected, a weight bracket is 185 lbs price $790 cdn plus 15% tax. I figure I'm gonna spend over 2k on weights. Front fenders is something else that should be added.


I was really surprised how much the weights cost. Also are in the way if I want to use a loader in summer. Hoping they are worth the extra coin.


----------



## Unraveller

Got delivery of our first L6060! Sales are going well and we have two more on the way.

Quick question for you guys: What is the best setup for 3,000-8,000 multiplex type setups. There are ton of purpose built 4 -6 plex buildings in my area.

Is it worth putting anything on the front to deal with places like this, or will the inverted blower do the trick and dont bother with a pusher?

This is an example:

*31 Wesley Street Toronto*


----------



## Herm Witte

We hung a v plow on the front of one of our inverted units. That way we did not lose the maneuverability of the unit.


----------



## Landgreen

Does a new cutting edge need to be broken in? Our 92 Normand scrapes quite well. A little too much. Left marks on both pavement and concrete when I was testing it last week. Tried with and without shoes. Thinking we should use it on a private road or two before dragging it on newly sealed pavement.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Might have to adjust the top link, it might be tilted too mulch.


----------



## excav8ter

Landgreen said:


> Does a new cutting edge need to be broken in? Our 92 Normand scrapes quite well. A little too much. Left marks on both pavement and concrete when I was testing it last week. Tried with and without shoes. Thinking we should use it on a private road or two before dragging it on newly sealed pavement.


Set it on some fairly level ground, and adjust the top link out, so the blower sits almost flat. Once that sharp edge is worn off a bit, you can pull the top link in a bit.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Thought I'd ask and see who else uses driveway markers for advertising as well. Been doing well so far this season but I've had problems on a couple streets with someone(s) pulling out my markers and throwing them onto someone elses lawn. I have one street with 5 driveways all close together, then last Saturday night someone removed the markers from three of the properties. It's happened twice on that street in the last couple weeks. I receive an email from a customer on another street who had the same thing happen to him except the markers are gone all together. I wish I had the free time like the person(s) who keep taking down my markers.


----------



## BUFF

CAT 245ME said:


> Thought I'd ask and see who else uses driveway markers for advertising as well. Been doing well so far this season but I've had problems on a couple streets with someone(s) pulling out my markers and throwing them onto someone elses lawn. I have one street with 5 driveways all close together, then last Saturday night someone removed the markers from three of the properties. It's happened twice on that street in the last couple weeks. I receive an email from a customer on another street who had the same thing happen to him except the markers are gone all together. I wish I had the free time like the person(s) who keep taking down my markers.
> View attachment 175063


When / if you catch them red handed call the law, take pics instead of beating them crap oot of them. You may not get the personal gratification you need but its the best way to go.


----------



## CAT 245ME

BUFF said:


> When / if you catch them red handed call the law, take pics instead of beating them crap oot of them. You may not get the personal gratification you need but its the best way to go.


Ya but that takes the fun out of it!!!

I had to redo three properties this morning.


----------



## Landgreen

So far so good with our tractor. Two mornings in a row of snow. Tractor has done very well. Operator has it down. Real quick with it. Had an issue with hyd couple for chute but that worked itself out. Properties looking good!


----------



## excav8ter

Landgreen said:


> So far so good with our tractor. Two mornings in a row of snow. Tractor has done very well. Operator has it down. Real quick with it. Had an issue with hyd couple for chute but that worked itself out. Properties looking good!


That's great Chris. Hopefully you get a lot of work because of that rig. It sure is sharp!


----------



## Landgreen

excav8ter said:


> That's great Chris. Hopefully you get a lot of work because of that rig. It sure is sharp!


Thanks. Im thinking we might start dropping a few drives at the outer edges of the route as we add more on. Looking forward to reducing road time.

Blower scrapes very well. Running no shoes. Will be inteesting to see how long that edge will last...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Have you run it yet?


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Have you run it yet?


Just on my drive. Im gonna blow out some drifted roadways later today.


----------



## Landgreen

Clearing one of our steepest drives today.


----------



## BUFF

Landgreen said:


> Clearing one of our steepest drives today.


If that's steep don't leave the mid-west.......

All joking aside your investment looks to be panning oot.
Tractor / Blower set ups like that are the more productive/effective way to deal with resi's in a tight route.


----------



## Landgreen

BUFF said:


> If that's steep don't leave the mid-west.......
> 
> All joking aside your investment looks to be panning oot.
> Tractor / Blower set ups like that are the more productive/effective way to deal with resi's in a tight route.


Tires definitely limit it. Havent had an issue yet but purposely left off steeper drives knowing we dont want an incident. If we had more hills here the Nokians would be a must or try siping/ cutting the r1's.


----------



## BUFF

Landgreen said:


> Tires definitely limit it. Havent had an issue yet but purposely left off steeper drives knowing we dont want an incident. If we had more hills here the Nokians would be a must or try siping/ cutting the r1's.


Siping would definantly help, at least it does on mud tires on a pickup.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Incident???

Turf tyres suck...


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Looks awesome man! I've been having trouble with people pulling stakes too CAT. Had a competitor complain about our stakes to the city, I have my suspicions that its him. Here's my latest purchase.


----------



## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Incident???
> 
> Turf tyres suck...


They do???....Why???....Do you have any proof??


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Defcon 5 said:


> They do???....Why???....Do you have any proof??


Yes, they're awful. tried them last year on a rental tractor. I'll take ags or snows over those slick baloon tires anyday.


----------



## Defcon 5

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Yes, they're awful. tried them last year on a rental tractor. I'll take ags or snows over those slick baloon tires anyday.


I was hoping Mr. Oomkes would have some personal experiences to share...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> I was hoping Mr. Oomkes would have some personal experiences to share...


I did...they suck.

Going shopping Monday morning.


----------



## Landgreen

Defcon 5 said:


> They do???....Why???....Do you have any proof??


Theres a pic somewhere around here...


----------



## Defcon 5

Landgreen said:


> Theres a pic somewhere around here...


Hint.....Look at my Avatar


----------



## Landgreen

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Looks awesome man! I've been having trouble with people pulling stakes too CAT. Had a competitor complain about our stakes to the city, I have my suspicions that its him. Here's my latest purchase.
> View attachment 175357


Looking forward to your review of that blower.


----------



## Landgreen

Defcon 5 said:


> Hint.....Look at my Avatar


Right. I was trying to be subtle.


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## Defcon 5

Landgreen said:


> Right. I was trying to be subtle.


I wasnt.....


----------



## Enzo

44 driveways in 4.5 hours including my shovel crew doing city walks and in front of garage doors and walkways to front doors. Less driveways this year but charging more for all the hand work made up for it. Next year going to try and get another tractor and have a tighter route to pickup more next to each other. Phone doesn't stop ringing here and we haven't advertised snow removal in three years now since we got our l6060 with Normand.


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Looks awesome man! I've been having trouble with people pulling stakes too CAT. Had a competitor complain about our stakes to the city, I have my suspicions that its him. Here's my latest purchase.
> View attachment 175357


I think there is a video on youtube of a blower like yours behind a JD 6430. The property in that pic I posted, you may have noticed the municiple sidewalk runs through the property all most center of the lawn, these properties I have, take a while to do, have to slow down and place the snow in a small specific spot. I have some properties on account of the city sidewalk there is very little room to blow the snow onto, it's some tight. No way you can clear them in a minute or two. On more than a few drives I'd be better off with a push blower.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Enzo said:


> 44 driveways in 4.5 hours including my shovel crew doing city walks and in front of garage doors and walkways to front doors. Less driveways this year but charging more for all the hand work made up for it. Next year going to try and get another tractor and have a tighter route to pickup more next to each other. Phone doesn't stop ringing here and we haven't advertised snow removal in three years now since we got our l6060 with Normand.


That's quite a while for 44 driveways. Are you servicing bigger properties?


----------



## Enzo

NickSnow&Mow said:


> That's quite a while for 44 driveways. Are you servicing bigger properties?


Mainly a lot of drive time in between. We're trying to buy another setup for next season to have the route tighter for sch tractor and to pickup some more driveways.


----------



## Landgreen

Enzo said:


> Mainly a lot of drive time in between. We're trying to buy another setup for next season to have the route tighter for sch tractor and to pickup some more driveways.


What is road speed of the 6060?


----------



## Enzo

Landgreen said:


> What is road speed of the 6060?


16mph.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Landgreen said:


> What is road speed of the 6060?


4 mph less than the 4r series :weightlifter:


----------



## boutch

BUFF said:


> If that's steep don't leave the mid-west.......
> 
> All joking aside your investment looks to be panning oot.
> Tractor / Blower set ups like that are the more productive/effective way to deal with resi's in a tight route.





Landgreen said:


> Tires definitely limit it. Havent had an issue yet but purposely left off steeper drives knowing we dont want an incident. If we had more hills here the Nokians would be a must or try siping/ cutting the r1's.


I love my Nokian. That one of the steepest one I service.


----------



## boutch

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Looks awesome man! I've been having trouble with people pulling stakes too CAT. Had a competitor complain about our stakes to the city, I have my suspicions that its him. Here's my latest purchase.
> View attachment 175357


Hi Nick. Please let us know how that cyclone blower compares to a Pronovost. It look realy good on you tube but i wonder how it would do in packed or wet snow.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

boutch said:


> Hi Nick. Please let us know how that cyclone blower compares to a Pronovost. It look realy good on you tube but i wonder how it would do in packed or wet snow.


We will see! I'm going to have to make a video comparing it to the 74" and 80" pronovosts.


----------



## CAT 245ME




----------



## Landgreen

Holy crap. Hope your customer checks for traffic once they start down that ski hill. 

We have many people moving here from all over the place. They dont put much thought or consideration of how nasty the winters are here when building their homes/ driveways.


----------



## Landgreen

We have had a difficult time recently with timing of clearing all our properties. We normally start at around 2:30 and finish at 9am. Nearly every day we have been getting an addition 2-4" from 5-8am. Half of the route will be triggered again. Numerous phone calls asking why we haven't cleared their drives even though we did. 

Whats a typical start time for your blower routes? If the drives are triggered again do you immediately go back over all of them or wait until next morning? We are considering moving start time to 3am or 4am.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

We start as early as possible but if it keeps snowing or another squall comes through, we go through again. 

My unofficial policy is we'll clear it twice in a 24 hour period, then it's time to rest and we'll get to it the next night. Unless there is a special event.

Shoot, we had a customer email at 7 PM the other night wondering when we were going to be there to plow (they do run 24 hours). Said it looked bad and it was snowing hard. Told him we just left at 620 PM for the second time that day and would be back at midnight unless it was really bad...never heard back. 

Anyways, I like to try to shoot for 5-6 hours per piece of equipment, but it's difficult. If I could charge more, I'd go 4-5 hours which would be great in a week like this. Then you get last year when it didn't snow for a couple weeks and 8 hour routes would be fine.


----------



## Landgreen

How often do your routes get cleared twice in a day?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Land green, experiencing the same issue here. We are servicing about 100 customers per tractor in a 6 hour window. My buddy who runs the 3046r starts at 1 and can have his 95 done jusy before 7 (very tight route). Starting at the same time My dad in the 52r with the cyclone is finishing about 8 or 8:30 doing 105 with a slightly less dense route. I’m driving like a maniac in the 66 covering twice the distance they are because of my 6 small commercial properties. I can have my 95 done by more like 9:30 or 10 including the commercials (I have a church and an abandoned school that I can do at the end which add about an hour). The other day we had less than 2cm at 2am. By 6:30 am it was a blizzard and there was probably just under 5cm by 9am. It stormed like crazy all day. We tried going out at about 3 but conditions just got worse so we called her quits until morning. The day time storms are super frustrating because customers are wondering why you haven’t come but the ROI of going out is very low because it’s dangerous and you are gaurenteed to have to go out again in the morning. I also say we will go twice in 24 hours Mark, which we did yesterday, once in the morning and after the city plow, but how are handling these day time fiascos?


----------



## Enzo

Any storm under 6 inches we wait until the end. And Our route takes 4 1/2 hours. Whenever the store men's our customers know that's when we start for the smaller storms. Figure storms they get service two times maybe three times depending on how much snow.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> How often do your routes get cleared twice in a day?


Too often...couple times a year maybe.


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Land green, experiencing the same issue here. We are servicing about 100 customers per tractor in a 6 hour window. My buddy who runs the 3046r starts at 1 and can have his 95 done jusy before 7 (very tight route). Starting at the same time My dad in the 52r with the cyclone is finishing about 8 or 8:30 doing 105 with a slightly less dense route. I'm driving like a maniac in the 66 covering twice the distance they are because of my 6 small commercial properties. I can have my 95 done by more like 9:30 or 10 including the commercials (I have a church and an abandoned school that I can do at the end which add about an hour). The other day we had less than 2cm at 2am. By 6:30 am it was a blizzard and there was probably just under 5cm by 9am. It stormed like crazy all day. We tried going out at about 3 but conditions just got worse so we called her quits until morning. The day time storms are super frustrating because customers are wondering why you haven't come but the ROI of going out is very low because it's dangerous and you are gaurenteed to have to go out again in the morning. I also say we will go twice in 24 hours Mark, which we did yesterday, once in the morning and after the city plow, but how are handling these day time fiascos?


Now, do you offer walkway shoveling?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME said:


> Now, do you offer walkway shoveling?


Yes but I have three shovelers. We do about 65 walkways.


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Yes but I have three shovelers. We do about 65 walkways.


Do your shovelers move the cars them selves in order for the tractor to be able to clear where they were parked or is that the homeowners responsibility


----------



## R75419

CAT 245ME said:


> Do your shovelers move the cars them selves in order for the tractor to be able to clear where they were parked or is that the homeowners responsibility


We won't do beside or in front of cars parked on a driveway. We do everything from the parked vehicle to the road. Little different because we are in NW Ohio and we are only dealing with a condo association of 60 drives. It's just an understood part of our contract. On a side note we have this season and next before we give up on residentials. We are making money on them but commercial with salt is our bread and butter. The blower will be sold and an Ebling installed for quicker work of loading docks and tight parking areas that need back dragging.


----------



## Landgreen

Anyone try grooving their tires? Reading a couple other threads and it seems to help quite a bit. We ran into issues yesterday as temps climbed near freezing point. Used a truck to clean up two of our steeper drives.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Getting Nokians for the Deere in the woods.

Sure am happy it's Saturday...finally stopped really snowing a couple hours ago. Anything done before 4ish has another couple inches.


----------



## Landgreen

I think Im going to try grooving the r1s. Cant hurt them and its cheap. I cant justify Nokians... yet.. as long as we keep our Deere away from the woods. We only have a few drives that are a challenge and we can move them over to a pickup route.


----------



## Neige

We tried grooving the tires and it made very little difference and now you have made the tires worth less money on the resale market. Try lowering the air pressure in your tires by a few pounds. This may help more then grooving


----------



## SHAWZER

On my 30 % tread loader tires cutting grooves helped a lot for traction . I only run 32 psi which helps too . I may get another few years before having to replace the tires on my snow only loader .


----------



## Landgreen

Neige said:


> We tried grooving the tires and it made very little difference and now you have made the tires worth less money on the resale market. Try lowering the air pressure in your tires by a few pounds. This may help more then grooving


We havent changed tire pressure yet so will go that route first. Thanks.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Anyone else running Pronovost blowers that have found them less than heavy duty? I'll be polite for now.

As in, if you catch a manhole bolts rattle loose, impeller housings tweak?

As in, problems we've never had with 2 Normands???


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Anyone else running Pronovost blowers that have found them less than heavy duty? I'll be polite for now.
> 
> As in, if you catch a manhole bolts rattle loose, impeller housings tweak?
> 
> As in, problems we've never had with 2 Normands???


Haven't had any issues at all with them yet, other than the fact that they're ancient technology and need to be replaced with cyclones! Mine are also smaller than yours and are on smaller machines so It's kind of a different game.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Haven't had any issues at all with them yet, other than the fact that they're ancient technology and need to be replaced with cyclones! Mine are also smaller than yours and are on smaller machines so It's kind of a different game.


Well I've got to say they're junk compared to a Normand. I have 2 Normands on 2 different tractors with 3 different operators over the past couple years on a couple routes with some manholes sticking up.

The Pronovost has had damage both times it's been used on that route. Not sure how much, but it's over $2000 now for straightening, tightening all the bolts that loosen up (instead of welds) and lost production.

The first time we had a poly edge, shoes, etc all the way around.

The Normands have yet to have issues. I hope to make my Pronovost a backup as soon as I can afford to replace it with a Normand.


----------



## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Haven't had any issues at all with them yet, other than the fact that they're ancient technology and need to be replaced with cyclones! Mine are also smaller than yours and are on smaller machines so It's kind of a different game.


Nick I know a guy close to my area that just used his Cyclone for the first time. He said it cleans better than the Normand and throws it farther? What are your thoughts so far? What size tractor do you have your Cyclone on; what size Cyclone and how wide are the hydraulic wings on yours?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

hansenslawncare said:


> Nick I know a guy close to my area that just used his Cyclone for the first time. He said it cleans better than the Normand and throws it farther? What are your thoughts so far? What size tractor do you have your Cyclone on; what size Cyclone and how wide are the hydraulic wings on yours?


It's on my 4052r so 52hp tractor. I told Jim to skip the wings on mine. I don't see them being super useful on an 82". My dad runs that tractor so I only have about half an hour on that machine. Here are our thoughts so far.

Pros
1. It forsure leaves significantly less snow on the road. Whether that's just because it doesn't have a back scraper or the design is a lot better I'm not totally sure.

2. The simplicity of the entire design is great

3. I think it's slightly lighter than the pronovost which is easier on the tractor and requires less weight upfront.

4. Having no backscraper is awesome because the tractor needs no extra remotes. You can run everything off of the loader joystick easily.

5. Galvanization is cool. I think my next one will be like yours

6. 82" is the perfect size

6. Jim's a baller and will continue to make improvements every year

Cons

1. Chute sucks in my opinion. Kind of jerky and has some flutter to it. Not even close to the pronovost fit and finish, also had to add flow limiter thing to stop it from going 1000km an hour on both the deflector and rotation.

2. Having no backscraper means no down pressure which is nice in certain applications.

3. The flange below the chute is too narrow and it seems to plug easier in heavy snow than the others if you don't keep rms up.

4. Over all finish is not as nice since they're just starting (grinder marks, ugly welds, etc)


----------



## CAT 245ME

How much of a price difference is there between the Pronovost vs the Cyclone?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME said:


> How much of a price difference is there between the Pronovost vs the Cyclone?


Pronovost is a little less than 2k more.


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Pronovost is a little less than 2k more.


What about Warranty?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME said:


> What about Warranty?


Never really thought about warranty for a snowblower to be honest.


----------



## hansenslawncare

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Never really thought about warranty for a snowblower to be honest.


I would agree with that. There's not a lot to go wrong with these; and if so it's probably self inflicted. A shear bolt is the only thing we have had to do other then grease on our Normand.

Does the build on the cyclone seem as strong as the Normand? etc.?? Thanks!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

The other thing aboot the Pronovost...it plugs easier than the Normands.


----------



## framer1901

Color looks the same though! Is that the brand Jim sells?


----------



## Herm Witte

framer1901 said:


> Color looks the same though! Is that the brand Jim sells?


Yes that' what Jim sells. I have an 80" (82"?) Pronovost inverted on a unit as well. We will see how it holds up. I do like the door option which makes cleaning a plugged up chute much simpler.


----------



## hvy 1ton

CAT 245ME said:


> Thought I'd ask and see who else uses driveway markers for advertising as well. Been doing well so far this season but I've had problems on a couple streets with someone(s) pulling out my markers and throwing them onto someone elses lawn.


You've probably already done this, but check with the customers first. I know a few guys had problems with customers that didn't know what the markers were for and thought it was random people putting stuff in their yard.


----------



## BUFF

hvy 1ton said:


> You've probably already done this, but check with the customers first. I know a few guys had problems with customers that didn't know what the markers were for and thought it was random people putting stuff in their yard.


Marking driveways is clearly noted in my contract along with trees, bushes and vegetation must be trimmed back to not obstruct or interfere with snow removal of driveways, walks and steps.


----------



## Defcon 5

Trees??....Vegetation????.....I guess someone didn't do a good job of marking that stuff then....


----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> Holy crap. Hope your customer checks for traffic once they start down that ski hill.
> 
> We have many people moving here from all over the place. They dont put much thought or consideration of how nasty the winters are here when building their homes/ driveways.


In my area, the older homes (30 years plus) you have lots of room to blow snow with an inverted. Can be done in a minute, but many of the fairly new homes are an obstacle course with very little room in front for snow. I've been seriously considering a push blower (or pxpl) because of this . Very little room in front but all kinds of room to blow to the back yard.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I'm curious to see what percentage of your client base has their own snowblower. I'd say in my case that 80% of my clients do have a snowblower but have chosen to hire someone as appose to doing it themselves. I have encountered a few that want to do it themselves but want to call me when needed. Those who I am unable to sign for the season I just refuse to offer per visit. I've chased money in the past but will no longer do that. Are any of you offering per visit with your tractor/blowers?


----------



## Herm Witte

CAT 245ME said:


> I'm curious to see what percentage of your client base has their own snowblower. I'd say in my case that 80% of my clients do have a snowblower but have chosen to hire someone as appose to doing it themselves. I have encountered a few that want to do it themselves but want to call me when needed. Those who I am unable to sign for the season I just refuse to offer per visit. I've chased money in the past but will no longer do that. Are any of you offering per visit with your tractor/blowers?


We do not offer per visit rates for our residential snow services, snow plows or inverted blowers. Our commercial per visit accounts guarantee us 12 trips per season which we always surpass.


----------



## Landgreen

We've racked up 145 hours on our John Deere and it has done very well. It even blew out all our parking lots after a big storm over the weekend. 

Can't wait to get another. 100hp for sure. 85hp gets it done in the deep but have to gear way down. Low range is excruciatingly slow. Yes. I know Mark. You told me... lol.


----------



## Mark Oomkes




----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> We've racked up 145 hours on our John Deere and it has done very well. It even blew out all our parking lots after a big storm over the weekend.
> 
> Can't wait to get another. 100hp for sure. 85hp gets it done in the deep but have to gear way down. Low range is excruciatingly slow. Yes. I know Mark. You told me... lol.


Makes you wonder why you waited so long to buy one, I know I wish I had done it a few years sooner. I have about 700 hours on my 6105D (91 pto hp), it's been trouble free knock on wood. The new 6E's might be worth looking into for you if you wanted to try the N102 Inverted out on one.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> Makes you wonder why you waited so long to buy one, I know I wish I had done it a few years sooner. I have about 700 hours on my 6105D (91 pto hp), it's been trouble free knock on wood. The new 6E's might be worth looking into for you if you wanted to try the N102 Inverted out on one.


Agreed...I really wish I could justify the M for drives.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> Agreed...I really wish I could justify the M for drives.


I know a company located a couple hours to the east of me that was using a 6125R on driveways. And they are a large snow removal company as well.


----------



## DeVries

We are demoing a 5100r with a 14 foot metal pless blade. Very nice tractor with a great cab design, including the loader and transmission controls on the arm rests which our older 5000 series tractors don't have. 
It has Nokians on it, to be honest the few hours I ran it today I didnt notice a differance in traction. Maybe they last longer than ag tires?
$102,000.00 out the door though, a little to much money to have that as a snow only tractor.


----------



## Landgreen

CAT 245ME said:


> Makes you wonder why you waited so long to buy one, I know I wish I had done it a few years sooner. I have about 700 hours on my 6105D (91 pto hp), it's been trouble free knock on wood. The new 6E's might be worth looking into for you if you wanted to try the N102 Inverted out on one.


Is the 6 series much taller than the 5? Not sure if we would want anything taller than what we have. Branches arent very friendly.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> Is the 6 series much taller than the 5? Not sure if we would want anything taller than what we have. Branches arent very friendly.


I had one drive that branches needed to be trimmed, but even with a 5 series they would've needed cutting anyway. Other than that no issue for me. 6D/E's I'd say are a bit smaller than the 6M/R series Deere's.

But the 6D/E's are a heavier built tractor as expected compared to the 5E's. Wheel base is a little longer though, 96.5 inches versus 90.5 that the 5E/M's are.


----------



## CAT 245ME

DeVries said:


> We are demoing a 5100r with a 14 foot metal pless blade. Very nice tractor with a great cab design, including the loader and transmission controls on the arm rests which our older 5000 series tractors don't have.
> It has Nokians on it, to be honest the few hours I ran it today I didnt notice a differance in traction. Maybe they last longer than ag tires?
> $102,000.00 out the door though, a little to much money to have that as a snow only tractor.


For us it's hard to justify that kind of money for a snow only tractor, but there are companies running large fleets of 6M Deere's with push blowers on the back and expandable pull blades on the front such as Chasse-Neige in Quebec


----------



## Mark Oomkes

https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/grd/d/john-deere-5100m-tractor-h260/6445081518.html

Been for sale for a year or maybe a bit less...he's come down a whole $1000 so far.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/grd/d/john-deere-5100m-tractor-h260/6445081518.html
> 
> Been for sale for a year or maybe a bit less...he's come down a whole $1000 so far.


Tough sell when Deere is offering 0% financing.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Not saying it's worth it. But a quick look at the ole Tractor House says his asking price isn't far off for age and hours. 

Why someone would buy one that close to new instead of financing at 0% is beyond me though. Yes yes yes, I understand Deere gives a cash discount depending on when you buy but why put all the cash out to save 2-3k?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Tough sell when Deere is offering 0% financing.


Agreed...I'd consider it for a plow tractor.

Prices are too low around here to justify an M for driveways. But for plowing...but I'm still thinking loaders might be better.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/grd/d/john-deere-5100m-tractor-h260/6445081518.html
> 
> Been for sale for a year or maybe a bit less...he's come down a whole $1000 so far.


His price is pretty much in line with the others. My JD dealer has a 2016 5100M with 88 hours and two rear remotes, 260 loader same as the one you listed the link to, asking price at my dealer is 85K cdn which comes to about 68K US. Warranty til May.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> His price is pretty much in line with the others. My JD dealer has a 2016 5100M with 88 hours and two rear remotes, 260 loader same as the one you listed the link to, asking price at my dealer is 85K cdn which comes to about 68K US. Warranty til May.


 I don't think it's out of line either, but if he's that desperate to sell it he should probably come down on price a little.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't think it's out of line either, but if he's that desperate to sell it he should probably come down on price a little.


It would surprise you the number of tractors out there that were sold and seen little to no use. I know of a 5085E 4WD, loader, snow bucket and push blower sold new three years ago and has seen no use. Still sits in the same spot it was delivered from JD.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

There's been some discussion of a "ride control" shock absorber accumulator thingamabob for the 3 points for carrying the blowers. 

Any details? (If I could remember the correct term I would search for the posts but I don't). Blew a cylinder and cracked a drum on our 5085, it would drift down then lift up on its own...until it dropped completely. 

I think it bounces far more because there is no blade on the front. Despite the counterweights. We are also going to adjust the pressure relief a bit but not sure that's a long term solution. 

Thanks


----------



## Aerospace Eng

Mark Oomkes said:


> There's been some discussion of a "ride control" shock absorber accumulator thingamabob for the 3 points for carrying the blowers.
> 
> Any details? (If I could remember the correct term I would search for the posts but I don't). Blew a cylinder and cracked a drum on our 5085, it would drift down then lift up on its own...until it dropped completely.
> 
> I think it bounces far more because there is no blade on the front. Despite the counterweights. We are also going to adjust the pressure relief a bit but not sure that's a long term solution.
> 
> Thanks


Open center? Could be difficult on the 3point since the plumbing is usually internal.


----------



## Herm Witte

Aerospace Eng said:


> Open center? Could be difficult on the 3point since the plumbing is usually internal.


Paul Vdz talked about adding nitrogen accumulators.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

Herm Witte said:


> Paul Vdz talked about adding nitrogen accumulators.


I'm not familiar with large tractors but on the smaller ones the 3 point is a single acting cylinder built into the tractor, with a mechanical feedback between the hitch position and the servo valve, with neutral set by the draft control lever.

If the three point arms move, they will operate the servo valve.

To get ride control, you need to put an accumulator such that it is between the servo valve and the actuator. On the tractors I am familiar with, there is no way to accomplish that.

You could put an accumulator on a hydraulic top link and get some of the benefit.


----------



## thatlawnguy

Haven't read whole thread, but OP should go with the Kubota 6060 with an inverted 80 inch Normand or Pronovost. these machines can have the nitrogen accumulator installed. these machines are becoming the preferred machines in the great white north for operators with tight residential routes. A skilled operator can manage 140-180 in a 4 hour window.


----------



## Broncslefty7

what do you guys consider high hours on a tractor when shopping for a used one around 125 HP?


----------



## CAT 245ME

Broncslefty7 said:


> what do you guys consider high hours on a tractor when shopping for a used one around 125 HP?


I personally wouldn't want to go past 2000 hrs. But all depends on price and what the previous owner used it for.


----------



## Jay Landscaping

Hey Guy, Another one here looking to get into a tractor with an inverted blower. I've been reading up and doing as much research as possible. Looking into a Kubota m7060 hdc12 (recommended by the local dealer) with a Normand N82-260HINV. I'll be doing about 60 driveways to start. For those of you that Do driveways what size blower do you like? Is the 80" going to be too small? Any other add ons that you like? Rear defrost, wiper, washer fluid are a must but anything else.....specific tires you like?


----------



## CAT 245ME

Jay Landscaping said:


> Hey Guy, Another one here looking to get into a tractor with an inverted blower. I've been reading up and doing as much research as possible. Looking into a Kubota m7060 hdc12 (recommended by the local dealer) with a Normand N82-260HINV. I'll be doing about 60 driveways to start. For those of you that Do driveways what size blower do you like? Is the 80" going to be too small? Any other add ons that you like? Rear defrost, wiper, washer fluid are a must but anything else.....specific tires you like?


Front weights if it doesn't already have them. I think the blower is matched well with the tractor. If the price is right, I'd buy it. If your working in a hilly area, then look into winter tires for it.


----------



## On a Call

DaySpring Services said:


> I was able to use the new Kubota this weekend. We go about 4-6" of Heavy, wet lake effect snow. I was more than impressed with the performance of the machine. It never bogged or clogged and threw snow 40 feet easily. I'm very happy with those results under such heavy snow conditions.


I would love to see that in action !!


----------



## Mains

Hi Guys, just wanted to pop my head in and say what a great thread this is. I binge read the entire 125 pages over the past few days and learned a ton.

Cheers,
Mains


----------



## Mains

NickSnow&Mow said:


> It's on my 4052r so 52hp tractor. I told Jim to skip the wings on mine. I don't see them being super useful on an 82". My dad runs that tractor so I only have about half an hour on that machine. Here are our thoughts so far.
> 
> Pros
> 1. It forsure leaves significantly less snow on the road. Whether that's just because it doesn't have a back scraper or the design is a lot better I'm not totally sure.
> 
> 2. The simplicity of the entire design is great
> 
> 3. I think it's slightly lighter than the pronovost which is easier on the tractor and requires less weight upfront.
> 
> 4. Having no backscraper is awesome because the tractor needs no extra remotes. You can run everything off of the loader joystick easily.
> 
> 5. Galvanization is cool. I think my next one will be like yours
> 
> 6. 82" is the perfect size
> 
> 6. Jim's a baller and will continue to make improvements every year
> 
> Cons
> 
> 1. Chute sucks in my opinion. Kind of jerky and has some flutter to it. Not even close to the pronovost fit and finish, also had to add flow limiter thing to stop it from going 1000km an hour on both the deflector and rotation.
> 
> 2. Having no backscraper means no down pressure which is nice in certain applications.
> 
> 3. The flange below the chute is too narrow and it seems to plug easier in heavy snow than the others if you don't keep rms up.
> 
> 4. Over all finish is not as nice since they're just starting (grinder marks, ugly welds, etc)


Hey Nick, how are you liking the cyclones now that we're a little further into the season? In your opinion, is it worth going with a new cyclone vs picking up a used Normand?

On a side note, have you seen the new Normand design which is similar to the cyclones? It looks like they leave virtually no snow behind which eliminates the need to specifically clear the buildup at the end of the driveway.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Mains said:


> Hey Nick, how are you liking the cyclones now that we're a little further into the season? In your opinion, is it worth going with a new cyclone vs picking up a used Normand?
> 
> On a side note, have you seen the new Normand design which is similar to the cyclones? It looks like they leave virtually no snow behind which eliminates the need to specifically clear the buildup at the end of the driveway.


Glad to hear you're liking the thread! This is my favourite one too. I actually made a thread of an extensive review and vid of the cyclone. Especially considering the fact that Jim is addressing the only major issue we've had I'm pretty confident I'll be running only galvanized cyclone from now on. If you're just getting into this I would absolutely advice you to go with one of these new style inverterds over the basic old backwards 3pt blower. Actually had a pretty major isssue with the one pronovost earlier this week where the dumb bolt on 3pt system had one bolt break and completely failed on me. Pretty disappointing. The new Normand looks pretty cool too. I'll bet they have a nice solid chute forsure. It'll be interesting to compare one to the cyclone.


----------



## Mr.Markus

If it was one of the 3pth arm bolts on the tractor, I have heard of this happening. Its a lot of weight to be jossiling around back there. It would be advisable to up the grade bolt used and do the other side as well while you're at itThumbs Up


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Mr.Markus said:


> If it was one of the 3pth arm bolts on the tractor, I have heard of this happening. Its a lot of weight to be jossiling around back there. It would be advisable to up the grade bolt used and do the other side as well while you're at itThumbs Up


Upgraded to grade 8 thanks!


----------



## sven1277

Is this a driveway you guys would do with an ag tractor/inverted? It's so steep that my plow comes off the driveway with the angle change. Would Nokian tires help?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

sven1277 said:


> Is this a driveway you guys would do with an ag tractor/inverted? It's so steep that my plow comes off the driveway with the angle change. Would Nokian tires help?
> 
> View attachment 177531


You could actually blow to the side going downhill on that one. No problem at all. Nokians would be ideal.


----------



## CAT 245ME

sven1277 said:


> Is this a driveway you guys would do with an ag tractor/inverted? It's so steep that my plow comes off the driveway with the angle change. Would Nokian tires help


I do have a couple drives like that except the homes are at the top, they need to be salted if we get rain and a quick freeze which has happened a couple times already. With ag tires there is no way I can back up them once there icy. Even my plow trucks with new winter tires struggle on them.


----------



## sven1277

As far as tires go, I know that Nokian are supposed to be superb for winter traction. Would they hold up being used in the summer as a yard loader or is the rubber a softer compound that will wear more quickly? Also, would grooving r4 tires on an ag tire be just as effective? We just did this on our b series Kubota after reading a lot about the benefits. Haven't ha had a storm yet to try them out. Did fronts and rears


----------



## Mark Oomkes

thatlawnguy said:


> Haven't read whole thread, but OP should go with the Kubota 6060 with an inverted 80 inch Normand or Pronovost. these machines can have the nitrogen accumulator installed. these machines are becoming the preferred machines in the great white north for operators with tight residential routes. A skilled operator can manage 140-180 in a 4 hour window.


Any info on that nitrogen accumulator?

Still looking around, can't figure oot what to search for on the Google. Dealer didn't know anything aboot it.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Stupid Pronovost blowers...now we cracked the arm with the splines that allows the 3 point to go up and down. And a hairline crack in the axle housing. 

We're guessing that because everything hangs out further, the bouncing is worse and causing the issues. 

It will be moved to backup status or sold next year.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Stupid Pronovost blowers...now we cracked the arm with the splines that allows the 3 point to go up and down. And a hairline crack in the axle housing.
> 
> We're guessing that because everything hangs out further, the bouncing is worse and causing the issues.
> 
> It will be moved to backup status or sold next year.


That is unacceptable. This is your 5085 right? How many hours?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> That is unacceptable. This is your 5085 right? How many hours?


Yes, just under 500. I'm convinced that the gearbox hanging out that much further is causing the issue.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yes, just under 500. I'm convinced that the gearbox hanging out that much further is causing the issue.


I had the entire 3pt hitch system fail on my 80" the other day as well. One bolt broke and it mangled everything. Had to torch and reweld the brackets as well as restraighten those top two pieces. I agree completely. Pretty rediculous. I'll be running cyclone from now on I think.


----------



## RAZOR

sven1277 said:


> As far as tires go, I know that Nokian are supposed to be superb for winter traction. Would they hold up being used in the summer as a yard loader or is the rubber a softer compound that will wear more quickly? Also, would grooving r4 tires on an ag tire be just as effective? We just did this on our b series Kubota after reading a lot about the benefits. Haven't ha had a storm yet to try them out. Did fronts and rears
> 
> View attachment 177576


I used Nokians in the summer for loading soil. They were were bad in the soil pile, they plugged up with soil real fast. They were better in winter but I went back to r4 for better year round use. I'm sure Nokians are fine for mowing or use on hard ground but not great on soft ground.


----------



## F250/XLS

Mark Oomkes said:


> Any info on that nitrogen accumulator?
> 
> Still looking around, can't figure oot what to search for on the Google. Dealer didn't know anything aboot it.


I have one on my tractor ,,, keeps blower from bouncing around.its the baloon on the left top of tool box


----------



## Mark Oomkes

F250/XLS said:


> View attachment 177912
> 
> I have one on my tractor ,,, keeps blower from bouncing around.its the baloon on the left top of tool box


Thanks...where did you get it from?


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thanks...where did you get it from?


I would think @Aerospace Eng would be able to help calculate the correct size accumulator and give instruction on how/where to install it at. Probably could source you one too. Be kinda like ride control for the 3 point.


----------



## BUFF

John_DeereGreen said:


> I would think @Aerospace Eng would be able to help calculate the correct size accumulator and give instruction on how/where to install it at. Probably could source you one too. Be kinda like ride control for the 3 point.


But wood Mark listen.....You know being King and all....


----------



## F250/XLS

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thanks...where did you get it from?


Dealer installed it when i purchase the tractor,i can get some info this week on brand,Size , etc


----------



## Mark Oomkes

F250/XLS said:


> Dealer installed it when i purchase the tractor,i can get some info this week on brand,Size , etc


It would be much appreciated. No one around here seems to know anything about them.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> I would think @Aerospace Eng would be able to help calculate the correct size accumulator and give instruction on how/where to install it at. Probably could source you one too. Be kinda like ride control for the 3 point.


He already did, wasn't sure how it would work


----------



## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> I would think @Aerospace Eng would be able to help calculate the correct size accumulator and give instruction on how/where to install it at. Probably could source you one too. Be kinda like ride control for the 3 point.


https://www.plowsite.com/threads/switching-to-blowing-service.110685/page-125#post-2250524


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> But wood Mark listen.....You know being King and all....


It's obvious that Aerospace is not a pointy head intellectual engineer or philosophy major...in other words he has common sense.

So yes, I wood listen.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/switching-to-blowing-service.110685/page-125#post-2250524


I stand corrected. I missed that post apparently.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

I'm not sure how you could do it with the three points I am familiar with (single acting cylinder build into the tractor without any external piping), as I don't know how you could interface the 3-point lift cylinder with the accumulator, but my tractor experience is limited. I think it would also interfere with the draft control feedback.

I am curious to find out how people have done it.

You could put an accumulator on a hydraulic top link, which would give you some of the benefit as the weight of the blower is pretty far behind the lift points on the arms. Basically, if you went over a bump, the top link would lengthen and the blower would sag, and then recover to its original position.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Aerospace Eng said:


> I'm not sure how you could do it with the three points I am familiar with (single acting cylinder build into the tractor without any external piping), as I don't know how you could interface the 3-point lift cylinder with the accumulator, but my tractor experience is limited. I think it would also interfere with the draft control feedback.
> 
> I am curious to find out how people have done it.
> 
> You could put an accumulator on a hydraulic top link, which would give you some of the benefit as the weight of the blower is pretty far behind the lift points on the arms. Basically, if you went over a bump, the top link would lengthen and the blower would sag, and then recover to its original position.


And my problem is I don't understand a 3 point or draft control enough to be able to answer the question. I just know others have made\built\bought accumulators on their 3 points because of the blower bouncing and I for the life of me can't find someone who sells them. But they're out there.


----------



## RAZOR

Here is the set up on a L6060.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

RAZOR said:


> Here is the set up on a L6060.
> View attachment 177930


Ok...so the question remains...WHERE do I get one? Or 3?


----------



## Aerospace Eng

On the 3-points I am familiar with, which are all 35 hp or less tractors with open center systems, the draft control lever sets the neutral position on the mechanical feedback. Hypothetically, let's say you set it to position "5" If the 3-point is lower than position 5 (as detected by a mechanical rod hooked to the draft control linkage), oil is ported to the three point cylinder and it lifts the 3-point hitch up. If it is higher than position 5, oil is dumped from the cylinder back into the return line through a lowering speed control needle valve. 

Since it's a single acting cylinder, it can only push up, with gravity lowering it.

The problem with the tractors I am familiar with is that there is no access to the hydraulic system between the valve controlled by the linkage and the three point cylinder. Also, if there was, and you put an accumulator there, then every time you went over a bump and the three point dropped, the valve would detect this as an out of position condition and port oil to the cylinder. Then when the accumulator pushed the blower back up, the valve would be dumping hydraulic fluid from the cylinder. 

As I said, I am curious as to how it is plumbed into the tractor, and how it works.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

RAZOR said:


> Here is the set up on a L6060.
> View attachment 177930


OK. That makes sense. External cylinders on the 3-point. You can get to the hydraulic lines.

Are these single acting or double acting?

Now this becomes a problem amenable to calculation.

What's the diameter of the cylinders (rod side and piston side)?
What is the length of the arms from where they connect to the tractor to the end?
What is the length from where it connects to the tractor to where the cylinder attaches?
What is the minimum weight you want to counterbalance?
How far back from the 3-point arms is this minimum weight?
What is the maximum weight you want to counterbalance?
How far back from the arms is this maximum weight?

Accumulators are readily available. It's just a question of sizing.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Aerospace Eng said:


> As I said, I am curious as to how it is plumbed into the tractor, and how it works.


I'm curious to get my hands on one.


----------



## farmergeorge

Our Mf 5455 (85pto hp) has a built in soft ride feature on the 3pth. Makes roading it down the bumpy sideroads alot nicer. Push the button when you want to use it and don't worry about it again.


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## Unraveller

RAZOR said:


> Here is the set up on a L6060.
> View attachment 177930


Where did you get that done Razor?


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## RAZOR

Unraveller said:


> Where did you get that done Razor?


My dealer more or less insists that snow tractors go out this way. I have been getting them this way for about 5 years now. I might be wrong but it is close to $1000 for the set up.


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## Mark Oomkes

RAZOR said:


> My dealer more or less insists that snow tractors go out this way. I have been getting them this way for about 5 years now. I might be wrong but it is close to $1000 for the set up.


Can you PM your dealer's name and number?


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## SDLandscapes VT

has there been any further information gathering on these accumulators?

@Moomkes?
@RAZOR?


----------



## Herm Witte

I spoke to Tim at Greenmark today. The 5E series have an internal three point lift cylinder. As a result he said you could not add a nitrogen accumulator. You would need an external three point lift cylinder to add a nitrogen accumulator.


----------



## F250/XLS

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thanks...where did you get it from?[/QUOTE
> Sorry about beeing so


----------



## F250/XLS

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thanks...where did you get it from?


im on my phone and its not going to good ,,,,,

Mark my accumulator was dealer installed, the brand is accumight, it's busted right now will be getting another one next week .mine is hooked to the hydrolic hose on the right cylinder, i was told that it regulates the flow when the blower is bouncing ,,,, mine has been bouncing for over
4 weeks but i had no time to look in to it and resulted in changing the right cylinder today.


----------



## thatlawnguy

Mark Oomkes said:


> Can you PM your dealer's name and number?


Hey Mark,
The guys at BT Mcfarlane in Ottawa ON install these accumulators on all their snow tractors, pretty sure that Topline trailers installs them as well. Maybe give them a call and inquire.

http://btmacfarlane.com/

https://toplinetrailers.com/


----------



## F250/XLS

F250/XLS said:


> im on my phone and its not going to good ,,,,,
> 
> Mark my accumulator was dealer installed, the brand is accumight, it's busted right now will be getting another one next week .mine is hooked to the hydrolic hose on the right cylinder, i was told that it regulates the flow when the blower is bouncing ,,,, mine has been bouncing for over
> 4 weeks but i had no time to look in to it and resulted in changing the right cylinder today.


B/T macfarlane is my dealer in ottawa ,,,


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Thanks for the info, been bizzie pissing money away on other things that I shouldn't have had to. 

So I haven't had time to check with any of these dealers or Paul's brother to see if there is some way to install it on the E Series Deeres.


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## boutch

I always had scraping issue with my inverted blower and I don't use a rear scraper. Even with a new cutting hegde, no shoes on the blower and adjusting the top link every storm it only scrape nice for 4-5 driveway. I welded a piece 1 inch by 3/8 flat bar on the leading edge. After 100 driveway it still scrape nicely, even going up or down driveways. This was a trial, once this one wear out I'll get some ardox.


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## Unraveller

Any better pictures of the cutting edge? Great scraping.

We use Lock-tight on the toplink (Blue) and that has helped tremendously. I noticed the L6060 toplink vibrates loose almost immediately without it.


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## boutch

Unraveller said:


> Any better pictures of the cutting edge? Great scraping.
> 
> We use Lock-tight on the toplink (Blue) and that has helped tremendously. I noticed the L6060 toplink vibrates loose almost immediately without it.


Sorry no. I'll try to get better pics next time. I got no issue with the top link backing off. Just with all the driveways going up and down, and alot of bumpy one the front on the edge wear off fast and it ride on top of the snow. Now instead of having 4 inches of contact Iit only got 1 inch. That's an older pronovost 92inv behind a m100x


----------



## Landgreen

Does anyone have experience using a small frame type tractor. They are gaining in popularity for farming in this area. Theyre useful for vineyards and high density orchards. From what I gather they are similar in weight and horsepower yet smaller for maneuverability. I can see a drawback being less room in cab and possibly shorter wheel base may make for bumpy ride? 

I ran our route yesterday for first time and got to thinking if a smaller frame would be quicker for turning in tight spots and at end of drives as well as not having to keep an eye out for basketball hoops and low hanging branches.


----------



## Landgreen

https://agriculture.papemachinery.com/new-equipment/equipment/equip-5101en/

Narrow frame tractor would be better term for them. I know Kubota has one as well.


----------



## Unraveller

Landgreen said:


> https://agriculture.papemachinery.com/new-equipment/equipment/equip-5101en/
> 
> Narrow frame tractor would be better term for them. I know Kubota has one as well.


I looked at the narrow frame 7060 Kubota originally. I was thinking with a 6' v on the front and inverted on the back I could do sidewalks and driveways with same machine. Ended up not doing it though,the V &,narrow added 30% to cost and the sidewalk utility wasn't worth it when it would still have a 8' inverted wagging out the back.

The primary argument against is the price point. Even without its 15-20% more expensive, with negligible utility gain for driveways imo.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> https://agriculture.papemachinery.com/new-equipment/equipment/equip-5101en/
> 
> Narrow frame tractor would be better term for them. I know Kubota has one as well.


I think @Herm Witte has one Chris.


----------



## Herm Witte

Mark Oomkes said:


> I think @Herm Witte has one Chris.


Yes we have a narrow. Obviously the cab interior is tight so a large body might not be a great fit. It is very maneuverable and a great fit for where we use it. Ground spe






ed is 21.5 mph. It is matched with an 80" inverted. With suitcase weights up front it is pretty stable and the front end hold its own. It does have an external three point lift cylinder so hooking up a nitrogen accumulator should be feasable.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Herm Witte said:


> Yes we have a narrow. Obviously the cab interior is tight so a large body might not be a great fit. It is very maneuverable and a great fit for where we use it. Ground spe
> View attachment 179367
> ed is 21.5 mph. It is matched with an 80" inverted. With suitcase weights up front it is pretty stable and the front end hold its own. It does have an external three point lift cylinder so hooking up a nitrogen accumulator should be feasable.


In other words...you won't fit in one Chris. Unless it has a sunroof.


----------



## Landgreen

Herm Witte said:


> Yes we have a narrow. Obviously the cab interior is tight so a large body might not be a great fit. It is very maneuverable and a great fit for where we use it. Ground spe
> View attachment 179367
> ed is 21.5 mph. It is matched with an 80" inverted. With suitcase weights up front it is pretty stable and the front end hold its own. It does have an external three point lift cylinder so hooking up a nitrogen accumulator should be feasable.


Thanks for sharing Herm. Does the tighter turning radius make an appreciable difference? Having the blower hang farther back limit getting around circle drives or other tight curves? Would you buy another narrow model after your experience with this one?


----------



## John_DeereGreen

I'm far from a "large framed" person and I wouldn't want to be stuck in a narrow/orchard tractor for more than 2-3 hours at a time.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> In other words...you won't fit in one Chris. Unless it has a sunroof.


My doctor told me I shouldn't operate one anyway.


----------



## Herm Witte

Landgreen said:


> Thanks for sharing Herm. Does the tighter turning radius make an appreciable difference? Having the blower hang farther back limit getting around circle drives or other tight curves? Would you buy another narrow model after your experience with this one?


The tighter turning radius is handy, pass a drive and loop around no three point turn. Appreciable difference, not really.
As far as the blower hanging out so far, it does allow for it to follow the contour of sloped driveways into the approach very well. We have had little experience with curves and islands with the narrow so I can't offer any thing there. 
I would not shy away from another. Every tool has its place. 
FYI, the three point has an external lift cylinder so installing a nitrogen accumulator would not be an issue.
Finally for JD Green, I have run that machine several times for 5 - 6 hours. No problem. The cab on our Wacker is tight as well, so is a skidsteer.
I'm replying during the Michigan game. GO GREEN!


----------



## Aerospace Eng

I was googling around and came across the Hydraulink top link for 3 point hitches. It basically appears to be a gas spring with some damping action. 

It might work to relieve the load while traveling for those systems where you can't have an accumulator on the lift arms. There might be too much give in it, or a blower might be too much weight, but without testing I can't say.

It might even work a bit as a load relief if the blower cutting edge caught on something, as it would compress, allowing the top of the blower to pivot forward, and lifting the body of the blower up.

Obviously, I have never tried one, but figured I would throw it out there.


----------



## snopushin ford

boutch said:


> I always had scraping issue with my inverted blower and I don't use a rear scraper. Even with a new cutting hegde, no shoes on the blower and adjusting the top link every storm it only scrape nice for 4-5 driveway. I welded a piece 1 inch by 3/8 flat bar on the leading edge. After 100 driveway it still scrape nicely, even going up or down driveways. This was a trial, once this one wear out I'll get some ardox.
> View attachment 179300
> View attachment 179301
> View attachment 179302


This is great! I have a 92" normand and am not happy with the scrape with wet snow. I am going to give this a try. great idea


----------



## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> I always had scraping issue with my inverted blower and I don't use a rear scraper. Even with a new cutting hegde, no shoes on the blower and adjusting the top link every storm it only scrape nice for 4-5 driveway. I welded a piece 1 inch by 3/8 flat bar on the leading edge. After 100 driveway it still scrape nicely, even going up or down driveways. This was a trial, once this one wear out I'll get some ardox.


I have the same issue, when backing in a driveway with wet heavy snow the tires are packing it down which makes it very difficult to scrape up with a Tivar cutting edge. We see a lot of wet heavy snow like the storm two days ago, a foot of snow at the freezing mark. Often times the snow is building up ahead of the blower and not feeding through the blower. Colder temps much different naturally, but on wet heavy snow, I'd be better off using a push blower. I have looked at Normand's HE+ blowers at my John Deere dealer.


----------



## boutch

snopushin ford said:


> This is great! I have a 92" normand and am not happy with the scrape with wet snow. I am going to give this a try. great idea


My Last 2 storm were wet heavy snow, most of my driveway I do are 60 to 100 feet long. It made a big difference on scraping, also still scrape nice going over dips. At the rate it is wearing down it might last me 8-10 storms. I didn't want to go too tick to prevent hooking on stuff, but it didn't hook more then before. I'll go with Ardox wear plate went it is worn down and maybe 1/2 inch.


----------



## Unraveller

boutch said:


> My Last 2 storm were wet heavy snow, most of my driveway I do are 60 to 100 feet long. It made a big difference on scraping, also still scrape nice going over dips. At the rate it is wearing down it might last me 8-10 storms. I didn't want to go too tick to prevent hooking on stuff, but it didn't hook more then before. I'll go with Ardox wear plate went it is worn down and maybe 1/2 inch.


Sounds very effective, love to get some more pictures when you're able.

We ran 2 Normands and 2 Allieds this year. Allied's got progressively worse and started warping. They won't be back next year.

This year there was literally no more Normands for sale in Ontario or Quebec after Oct15 so we took what we could get.


----------



## boutch

Unraveller said:


> Sounds very effective, love to get some more pictures when you're able.
> 
> We ran 2 Normands and 2 Allieds this year. Allied's got progressively worse and started warping.
> 
> This year there was literally no more Normands for sale in Ontario or Quebec after Oct15 so we took what we could get.


I'm not sure when I'll have the tractor out again, but here a couple pics showing what I did from couple piece of metal. So the 1 inch flat bar got welded to the 4 inches cutting edge. When installed onto the blower the cutting edge goes on as normal. The 1 inch x 3/8 flat bar would be the only part touching the ground. The 1 inch flat bar is welded to the leading edge of the blower cutting edge.


----------



## Jkochensparger

Is it worth $5000 to buy a m series tractor over a e series tractor? I am concerned about the 3 point cylinders buried in the e frame where as the m frame has the cylinders external and easy to replace rebuild. Is this even a issue?

I drove a narrow frame orchard tractor and it was quite the rough ride for sure.


----------



## Jkochensparger

My bad the spread between the e and the m is 11,500


----------



## Herm Witte

Jkochensparger said:


> Is it worth $5000 to buy a m series tractor over a e series tractor? I am concerned about the 3 point cylinders buried in the e frame where as the m frame has the cylinders external and easy to replace rebuild. Is this even a issue?
> 
> I drove a narrow frame orchard tractor and it was quite the rough ride for sure.


We have the lift cylinder replaced on our 5085E. Less than 1500.00 U.S. However, nitrogen accumulators are easily installed on external cylinders.


----------



## Jkochensparger

Herm, 
How long were you down for the service?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Herm Witte said:


> We have the lift cylinder replaced on our 5085E. Less than 1500.00 U.S. However, nitrogen accumulators are easily installed on external cylinders.


Who? Where?


----------



## Herm Witte

Mark Oomkes said:


> Who? Where?


Greenmark. Let me double check next week.


----------



## Herm Witte

Jkochensparger said:


> Herm,
> How long were you down for the service?


We had it done this summer so I can't answer the question. It sat around for a bit


----------



## Jkochensparger

Any word on the hybrid Normand?
Is it as strong at the regular inverted?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Jkochensparger said:


> Any word on the hybrid Normand?
> Is it as strong at the regular inverted?


No body's had the chance to run them for real yet. The very first prototypes dropped like a week before the end of winter. Cyclone and agrimetal are the only proven blowers of this type.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Herm Witte said:


> Greenmark. Let me double check next week.


Last I heard from them it was impossible. :hammerhead:


----------



## Herm Witte

Mark Oomkes said:


> Last I heard from them it was impossible. :hammerhead:


I can scan over my bill.


----------



## Jkochensparger

Nick it sounded like the cyclone still had a few issues, from your post.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Jkochensparger said:


> Nick it sounded like the cyclone still had a few issues, from your post.


It definitely did. However they were minor when looking at the big picture and have all been addressed now that it's been put into the pronovost family. It was the original design that has been tested the most and has seen the improvements it needed. I'm sure Normand makes great blowers as well. However they have not undergone anywhere near the same kind of testing. Certainly a much riskier purchase for this year IMO.


----------



## Enzo

Hey everyone with winter approaching soon we are thinking about adding on our second tractor. My main issue is all the hand work involved. I am nervous to tell current customers that hand shoveling to stairs will no longer be offered and we will just be doing the driveway with our bigger tractor and city walks with our small tractor. Has anyone had issues with something similar involving not offering shoveling? Also on another note what were some your best results for marketing? We tried door hangers, local ads in rare reminder, and google adwords before. We are trying to either continue that or drop all that and just do direct mailers. I appreciate any thoughts Thanks!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Enzo said:


> Hey everyone with winter approaching soon we are thinking about adding on our second tractor. My main issue is all the hand work involved. I am nervous to tell current customers that hand shoveling to stairs will no longer be offered and we will just be doing the driveway with our bigger tractor and city walks with our small tractor. Has anyone had issues with something similar involving not offering shoveling? Also on another note what were some your best results for marketing? We tried door hangers, local ads in rare reminder, and google adwords before. We are trying to either continue that or drop all that and just do direct mailers. I appreciate any thoughts Thanks!


Those services have always been add-ons around here. We have a sidewalk crew that does that work if they choose to pay for it. Keeps the tractor moving and doing what it does best.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Those services have always been add-ons around here. We have a sidewalk crew that does that work if they choose to pay for it. Keeps the tractor moving and doing what it does best.


Agreed. I've found the best is individual guy that take their own vehicle and shovel a short route solo. 30-40 places in four hours. I had three last year and worked great. I'd suggest doing that.


----------



## Enzo

The last 3 years of us doing this now we had about 50-60 driveways which takes the tractor about 5 hours to do because we are pretty spread out and want to add another tractor, but are a bit nervous because we think many people want all the handwork to be done along with it. Also in the last 3 years we had two guys following behind doing city walks, front walk ways and stairs, as well as in front of the garage doors. Their route took a good 5-6 hours as well. We are trying to get out of hand work completely and just do city walks only with a small machine. Do any of your accounts have issues without you offering hand shoveling? I know most companies in Canada just do driveways and that's what we want to try and push, but everyone is so used to having everything done for them. Our main issue is having lack of workers wanting to do this type of work. We obviously would charge extra for the season to do the hand work, but I rather expand the route and add another tractor to do more driveways. What do you guys think?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Enzo said:


> The last 3 years of us doing this now we had about 50-60 driveways which takes the tractor about 5 hours to do because we are pretty spread out and want to add another tractor, but are a bit nervous because we think many people want all the handwork to be done along with it. Also in the last 3 years we had two guys following behind doing city walks, front walk ways and stairs, as well as in front of the garage doors. Their route took a good 5-6 hours as well. We are trying to get out of hand work completely and just do city walks only with a small machine. Do any of your accounts have issues without you offering hand shoveling? I know most companies in Canada just do driveways and that's what we want to try and push, but everyone is so used to having everything done for them. Our main issue is having lack of workers wanting to do this type of work. We obviously would charge extra for the season to do the hand work, but I rather expand the route and add another tractor to do more driveways. What do you guys think?


IMO it all depends on the area. People around here don't expect that kind of service to be included with plowing. It is and always has been and extra.


----------



## CAT 245ME

For me personally, I'm driveway only. And with that said, I've added new clients that already had someone willing to do both.


----------



## Enzo

What do you guys typically charge for the season on a 2 car wide driveway? On average we service driveways between 10-15 times. Also are you charging a seasonal rate for sidewalks or a per visit charge?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Enzo said:


> What do you guys typically charge for the season on a 2 car wide driveway? On average we service driveways between 10-15 times. Also are you charging a seasonal rate for sidewalks or a per visit charge?


Most big players in Canada are around the $450 mark servicing 20-30+ times. I estimate an average of 25-30 storms. This year we'll be around the $460+13% tax mark no shovelling before discounts. In the past shovelling once per event has been and extra $200 but will probably be more like $220 or so extra this season. No city sidewalks for us.


----------



## Enzo

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Most big players in Canada are around the $450 mark servicing 20-30+ times. I estimate an average of 25-30 storms. This year we'll be around the $460+13% tax mark no shovelling before discounts. In the past shovelling once per event has been and extra $200 but will probably be more like $220 or so extra this season. No city sidewalks for us.


$200-220 per event or for the season?


----------



## Triple L

Clearly it's per event! $200 for 30 events... Everyone chooses the $6000 shovelling option around here LOL


----------



## Enzo

Triple L said:


> Clearly it's per event! $200 for 30 events... Everyone chooses the $6000 shovelling option around here LOL


The way he wrote it made me question it that was all lol.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Enzo said:


> The way he wrote it made me question it that was all lol.


Fair point. All I meant by that was that we'll do it for the season but realistically it's maybe 20 times because there are no return trips later in the day or anything like that.


----------



## Jkochensparger

Nick, how big are the walks you do for a average price of $7.30 per time?

I am at $10 per walk per time and over 5” double and would rather not do them.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Jkochensparger said:


> Nick, how big are the walks you do for a average price of $7.30 per time?
> 
> I am at $10 per walk per time and over 5" double and would rather not do them.


On average it works out to $10 for us as well because there are always a few times we'll do the driveways and skip the walks because they're really not necessary. Like I said that service is more like an average of 20 times. To shovel those walkways takes approx 3-7 on avg kind of thing. Most are quite small. Plus keep in mind that is the very starting price. Anything that would cause it to take longer ups the price. Half of the revenue goes to labor and the rest is profit. We only did about 65 with walkways last year and I'll be capping it at 100 for this winter. In all honesty I'd rather not do them either. However I you have the right guys it's like 10k in profit and keeps the customers that really want that happy. Last year I really stopped marketing that aspect of it. You'll notice everybody big like kodiak, Capital, JFB, Essa, Vanderzon, etc usually offer it but do not market it heavily. I think that's where I'm going to stay.


----------



## Enzo

We are roughly getting between 200-300 for walkways, stairs, and in front of garage doors for the season. We charge an additional 200-300 for city walks. So we aren't to far off. Our main issue is to get reliable help to come in and do all the hand work. We want to just stick to driveway and city walks only where machines can do all of it and use less man power. The only issue with that is how to get closer to garage doors without having tractor operator get out to shovel.


----------



## NLS1

Having flashbacks.....nobody local even knew what an inverted blower was......like nobody.....many emails back and forth with Paul......finally packing up and driving to visit Paul in Canada after a 20 hour straight drive through to pick up 2 inverted blowers 1 for me, 1 for Steve......migraine from no water and hours stuck in traffic in Montreal trying to find Pauls shop in the dark......meeting Paul in person for the first time-just about the coolest guy I have ever met......getting a tour of Pauls incredible shop and all the big spots they plow and miles and miles of driveways all with the Vanderzon signs one after another- thousands of them......drive straight back through to get ready for snow...... installing driveway marker signs and getting calls within minutes complaining about the signs......poly edge not scraping good enough.....more phone calls......people crabby about how big the tractor was......more phone calls......people crabby that I didn't do sidewalks even though the contract stated no sidewalks.......more phone calls.......trying to get neighborhoods to all sign up together for tight route density.....flyers.....door hangers.....postcards......wound up just herding cats......yikes. Talk about being the guinea pig around here.......

I am glad the market is strong enough for driveways for some of you. If you can get route density high enough it is a pretty wicked way to bang out driveways. I could easily blow huge driveways in 1-2 minutes and off to the next. If they had been close together I could have done hundreds with each tractor. All in comfort and safety with good visibility..... 

Driveways are mediocre at best around here in this market, and we never made any money after two years trying the blower system, but learning about how awesome tractors are for snow, and getting to know Paul-totally priceless.

Thanks Paul for all your help for all of us with tractors and blowers and Metal Pless plows. You are a great help to our entire industry and I think everyone on this thread that has had success in the tractor and/or blower arena would agree. Hope you are enjoying the sun and warm as we all freeze our nuts off each winter!

Dan


----------



## Landgreen

One big drawback to having a large amount of residential customers is communication with them. Last year was our first year with the tractor/blower and I definitely noticed an increase in call volume. The reason for the calls varied. Probably the number one question was "Hey are you guys out snowblowing because I have a lot of snow in my drive." Last year often the snow would come late so we couldnt start the route until 5 or 6am. Calls would be those at the tail end of route. We are adding on another tractor/blower this winter so its just gonna get worse.

Does anyone use Facebook or any other social media to communicate with clients? Is there some sort of client hub you have that you can post updates like time of plowing and customers can check in on it? I don't have the budget for a person to answer the phone so hoping to curtail those needy customer that can be satisfied with general info on progress of our routes.


----------



## Broncslefty7

ive heard of guys using twitter.

but thats one of the reasons we stayed commercial, less people to worry about calling.


----------



## Derek'sDumpstersInc

Broncslefty7 said:


> ive heard of guys using twitter.
> 
> but thats one of the reasons we stayed commercial, less people to worry about calling.


Something I'm thinking about for this year for my customers (all commercial) is that Google Maps gives you the ability to share your location. You choose who to share with and it sends them a text with a link to pull you up on the map and see where you're at. Used it when I drove down to Denton, TX last year to watch my Pete run down the assembly line. I had family in Houston that I was staying with and it was nice for them to pull it up periodically and see where I was. Don't know how feasible it would be with a large number you're trying to share with. Just a thought.


----------



## absolutely

We updated with a mass email to Residential and separate for Commercial. We would update both on each storm on when we start and a rough time on when we would finish. It really helped with calls, most of the time I would paste a hourly forecast to show when the snow came through. We were praised by several customers on the updates, rather than waking up to snow and wondering when we might show up.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Derek'sDumpstersInc said:


> Something I'm thinking about for this year for my customers (all commercial) is that Google Maps gives you the ability to share your location. You choose who to share with and it sends them a text with a link to pull you up on the map and see where you're at. Used it when I drove down to Denton, TX last year to watch my Pete run down the assembly line. I had family in Houston that I was staying with and it was nice for them to pull it up periodically and see where I was. Don't know how feasible it would be with a large number you're trying to share with. Just a thought.


I'd shoot myself before telling my resi customers where our crews were...the calls will come in either "he's just up the road why can't he swing by" or "you're not going to be here for that much longer?"


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> One big drawback to having a large amount of residential customers is communication with them. Last year was our first year with the tractor/blower and I definitely noticed an increase in call volume. The reason for the calls varied. Probably the number one question was "Hey are you guys out snowblowing because I have a lot of snow in my drive." Last year often the snow would come late so we couldnt start the route until 5 or 6am. Calls would be those at the tail end of route. We are adding on another tractor/blower this winter so its just gonna get worse.
> 
> Does anyone use Facebook or any other social media to communicate with clients? Is there some sort of client hub you have that you can post updates like time of plowing and customers can check in on it? I don't have the budget for a person to answer the phone so hoping to curtail those needy customer that can be satisfied with general info on progress of our routes.


I can't remember where, but someone said this just opened it up for complaints and more problems...the BookFace method. Whoever only did it 1 year and gave it up.


----------



## Herm Witte

[QUOTE="Landgreen, post: 2308029, member: 23271"Does anyone use Facebook or any other social media to communicate with clients? Is there some sort of client hub you have that you can post updates like time of plowing and customers can check in on it? I don't have the budget for a person to answer the phone so hoping to curtail those needy customer that can be satisfied with general info on progress of our routes.[/QUOTE]

The last number of years we left a message on voice mail stating start time and expected finish time each event. In addition this year we will send an email stating the same. The short email will also allow for an explanation of a later start when that occurs.


----------



## White_Gold11

We have a snow update page on our website where we post start times and anticipated finish times. We also update Facebook. We feel it reduces call volume. Also a snow protocol letter that they can look at every time it snows for a reference seemed to work wonders. Then they actually can come up with a decent idea of when they will be serviced..


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Email updates worked quite well for us last season. We’ll be continuing those. Long term (hopefully by Jan-feb) it’ll be automated in the routing program with Geo fences. That’s a whole other topic though. I’ve learned from experience the worst thing you can do is just leave a voice mail and not pickup the phone. Drives people insane. This year I’ve setup an outsourced call centre. It’s actually not that expensive and should hopefully filter out the calls substantially. I get an email stating who called and what they wanted. The phone people know essentially nothing other than a brief description of our pricing and services. That is fine though, they’re pretty much just there to take message and can transfer to me if necissary. Even so I think people will be much happier talking to a real person. Long story short don’t plan on answering calls yourself. It’s too much as an owner trying to manage everything else. 50-100 calls a day plus emails in a heavy storm between questions, new customers, quotes, mad customers.etc really hurts your mood in a big storm. Delegate it however you can.


----------



## EWSplow

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'd shoot myself before telling my resi customers where our crews were...the calls will come in either "he's just up the road why can't he swing by" or "you're not going to be here for that much longer?"


I was thinking the same thing. Add to that, "why are you doing them before me?"


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

EWSplow said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Add to that, "why are you doing them before me?"


Fair point, but some of the biggest players in the game like Kodiak and Capital disagree.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Fair point, but some of the biggest players in the game like Kodiak and Capital disagree.


They allow customers to see the location of the equipment?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes said:


> They allow customers to see the location of the equipment?


Yeah. Where they are and where the tractors have been. Not sure if I want to do it either. But apparently it helps.


----------



## EWSplow

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Yeah. Where they are and where the tractors have been. Not sure if I want to do it either. But apparently it helps.


It helps if you're the next stop on the route.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

EWSplow said:


> It helps if you're the next stop on the route.


Or if you're wondering if you can get out of the driveway and want to see that the tractors just a couple streets down. Have you tried it?


----------



## White_Gold11

For large companies with short route times and adequate equipment it probably isn’t a big deal. Like I said once customers understand how and why you operate the way you do they have little reason to call unless you missed them..


----------



## EWSplow

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Or if you're wondering if you can get out of the driveway and want to see that the tractors just a couple streets down. Have you tried it?


Good point.
No I haven't. 
My guys know the priorities, what business opens when, who needs to get to work and when, etc. I also have understanding clients. 
Only one complainer last year, a tenant who called the property manager and said we hadn't plowed. I told the property manager that if she got her arse out of bed before 9am, she'd know that we were there at 7 and its snowing an inch an hour.


----------



## Broncslefty7

What are you guys route times looking like? When I spoke to Paul a few years ago about this he was saying to try and keep it to 4-5 hours max.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Broncslefty7 said:


> What are you guys route times looking like? When I spoke to Paul a few years ago about this he was saying to try and keep it to 4-5 hours max.


5-6 for me. Depends on the operator. I have one who is very "thorough". He does in 6 what can be done in 4 1/2-5 hours.


----------



## Landgreen

Broncslefty7 said:


> What are you guys route times looking like? When I spoke to Paul a few years ago about this he was saying to try and keep it to 4-5 hours max.


About 6 hrs for us. We try to wrap up everything by 9-10am. Most customers arent worried about having their drive cleaned real early. Either retired or have 4wd.


----------



## Herm Witte

Unfortunately people in West Michigan freak out if they see snow in the driveway at 6:30/7 am. Chris I think residential clients are actually serviced better your way.

We try for no more than 6 hour routes as well.


----------



## mnlawns

the guy we are having do our driveway snow blowing gets everything cleared within 8hrs of snow stopping, for larger storms, they clear a spot to drive out every 6-7hrs


----------



## boutch

Ho ho! Another game changer, Expendable snow blower from the Bilodeau Snowblower. They are saying it Will be tested this winter before production and demonstrated throughout the winter. It expend to 12 feet.

https://www.facebook.com/141194889883885/posts/271377443532295/


----------



## Mark Oomkes

boutch said:


> Ho ho! Another game changer, Expendable snow blower from the Bilodeau Snowblower. They are saying it Will be tested this winter before production and demonstrated throughout the winter. It expend to 12 feet.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/141194889883885/posts/271377443532295/


EPIC Game Changer


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Well that is cool. Do you think they're planning on producing them with just one side being extendible?


----------



## DeVries

Epic is correct. I wouldn't mind being a tester


----------



## boutch

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Well that is cool. Do you think they're planning on producing them with just one side being extendible?


Well I think 2 sides it would get tricky to drive the auger.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

DeVries said:


> Epic is correct. I wouldn't mind being a tester


Agreed


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Be nice to comprende what he's saying...


----------



## boutch

Mark Oomkes said:


> Be nice to comprende what he's saying...


They dont say to much yet. Just what I said in the previous post. They have a patent on it too. They said they will make more video soon and tell us more about it. I'll post more info when they post new stuff.


----------



## Herm Witte

I tend to be cautious. How will it hold up to hooking a curb? Might be nice in a condo or HOA without curbs.


----------



## Unraveller

boutch said:


> Ho ho! Another game changer, Expendable snow blower from the Bilodeau Snowblower. They are saying it Will be tested this winter before production and demonstrated throughout the winter. It expend to 12 feet.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/141194889883885/posts/271377443532295/


Expendable or Expandable?

Big difference


----------



## boutch

Unraveller said:


> Expendable or Expandable?
> 
> Big difference


Haha. Extensible ou extensible. Easy on the french Guy.


----------



## boutch

Herm Witte said:


> I tend to be cautious. How will it hold up to hooking a curb? Might be nice in a condo or HOA without curbs.


They said they gonna test them all winter before they go into production and have multiples company's testing them. But ya it as to be weaker.


----------



## Snowshootz

PTSolutions said:


> Note: Please don't comment or make suggestions if you have not read this original post. I will explain our situation and goal as best I can. Too many times people post something that wasn't asked for or the option was not even on the table to begin with.
> 
> Ok, well I have been researching this option for about 2 years now and would like to implement this in my area. I have read, searched and watched videos and ran some numbers to see if this service would be not only feasable but profitable as well. Looking at Neige, BlackIrish, Blowerman as examples I applied their business model to our operations and looked at the overlaps.
> 
> *Our current situation:*
> 
> -This year we are operating 4 of our own plow trucks, 1 sub and 1 ASV RC100 with 85"blower
> 
> -We service approximately 200 residential customers, about 75% of which are located within a 1.5mile radius of our base of operations. ~110 of those customers have a 10hr. service window. (senior citizen program, discounted rate and longer service window)
> 
> -We service a 62 unit HOA with driveways that avg. 1 car length by 2 car widths. This account will be done with the ASV with Blower and 1 of the trucks will do the roadway (6/10ths of a mile)
> 
> -We service 4 other commercial lots the largest of which is approx. 1 acre. 2 of those lots are done regularly, the other is a church and activity center that need to be done only for certain days, unless they get 3" or more.
> 
> -We strive for and achieve a 6hr route completion time (under normal circumstances)
> 
> *Opportunity for more clients:*
> 
> -there are approximately 1000-2000 senior citizens that participate in the program and about 6 contractors. We have taken over quite a few clients b/c of word of mouth. Oftentimes we have done a driveway twice during a heavier storm when the other contractors havent even gotten out once. During renewals in October we are often requested to take over service because we finish so much faster and do a more professional job than the other contractors. My plan is with a blower service I can take over the entire program through the inherent benefits, faster, no piles, cleaner edges etc...
> 
> -The neighboring city also offers a senior program but is done only by maintence workers, after the municipal route is completed. There was an article in the paper about how this program is costing them too much money, as it is free. They have been exploring the option of letting private contractors take this over and I want to meet with the council members and offer them a similar set up to what our city has set up. They currently service 850 clients, but with a more structured program with better service I estimate an additional 300 clients to sign on to this program.
> 
> *What I need help with:*
> 
> -Deciding which equipment best suits my needs
> 
> -The vast majority of our clients can be accessed via side roads that all connect with each other so there is minimal driving on main roads.
> 
> -Tractors with inversed pto driven blowers
> 
> -Toolcats with either pto or front mount hydraulic driven blowers
> 
> Toolcats:
> 59hp
> 18mph road speed
> 17gpm standard or 27.5gpm hi flow aux hydraulics
> 1500lb lift capacity FEL
> 25hp pto rating
> 1775lb lift capactiy 3pt
> 5500-6000lb op weight
> used prices 4-600hrs: 27-35K
> 
> Tractors:
> 60-75hp class (kubota m6040 & m7040)
> up to 25mph road speed?
> 11gpm, no hi flow
> up to 4000lb lift capacity 3pt
> used prices 100-600hrs: 20-32K
> 
> now, obviously the specs favor tractors for blower situations, but from those who have used toolcats, is there anything i missed? I mean, anything that would make me take a closer look at using them vs. blowers?
> 
> specifically BlackIrish, what do you like about your toolcats?
> 
> About 90% of these machines use will be residential driveways, but if we get more commercial accounts I may also utilize them there, but this isnt a deal breaker, if we get a large lot or lots, then that will dictate what equipment i need onsite.
> 
> I really wont have a need for either in the off-season since our uses mainly require mtl or other skid steer and excavators.
> 
> Sorry for such a long winded post, but i wanted to provide as much info as possible so that you guys may provide the most accurate points of view.


----------



## Snowshootz

To: Team Snow Slayer. I Have a Truck Mounted Snow Blower 84" Duel Stage which Mounts in a Western Plow Frame. It is Run by a V6 Gas 210 HP. It is Completely Run From The Inside of the Vehicle.I use a blade until I get a snow pack in which the blower can slide on without picking up gravel I have the Prototype & a Provition Patend. I ran it for 1yr then put it in the closet NOT REALIZING the DEMAND for this UNIT !!! I have up loaded some pic & a vidio


----------



## CAT 245ME

Has anyone on here purchased a new Normand HYB blower for this winter?


----------



## Herm Witte

I have one on order. Should be in at the end of November or so.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I tried to get a N100 HYB for my 6115M, but was told by my dealer that it wouldn't be available until about the end of January. I do know that they have an order for 3 92" HYB's that are available but haven't heard when they will be in. I was thinking it should't be hard to add a set of hydraulic wings to the HYB like the Cyclones have for extra width.

I tried three times to get a price on a Cyclone from my nearest Pronovost dealers, not once did they call me back.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> Has anyone on here purchased a new Normand HYB blower for this winter?


Yes


----------



## Jkochensparger

Yes


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yes


Mark was it you that got to try the HYB at the end of last season. I'm almost sure Neige's brothers got one as well to try out. Looking for feedback.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> Mark was it you that got to try the HYB at the end of last season. I'm almost sure Neige's brothers got one as well to try out. Looking for feedback.


I got one and then it never snowed. I suppose I could have tried it out on the ice storm but we didn't touch our driveways.


----------



## BossPlow2010

Mark Oomkes said:


> I got one and then it never snowed. I suppose I could
> have tried it out on the ice storm but we didn't touch our driveways.


What makes it different from other Normand blowers?

And don't say it's a hybrid...


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> I got one and then it never snowed. I suppose I could have tried it out on the ice storm but we didn't touch our driveways.


Next time bring it up here...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Next time bring it up here...


I'm bizzie...


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm bizzie...


With what? Wine tasting?


----------



## BUFF

Landgreen said:


> With what? Wine tasting?


Like like like like like like like like like like.................


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> With what? Wine tasting?


And beer...and distilled spirits.

Sign shopping as well.









Bought this one for myself.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I contacted a Pronovost dealer in Quebec about the Pronovost C9228 Cyclone with hydraulic wings. I was quoted for everything $10,238 Canadian plus tax, this can't be right but the dealer says so. I remember seeing 2 of these blowers advertised this summer at a JD dealer for $13,500 in Quebec.


----------



## Jkochensparger

BossPlow2010 said:


> What makes it different from other Normand blowers?
> 
> And don't say it's a hybrid...


It appears to let you get closer to garage doors/ objects and leave less snow behind. It is also is lighter so you put less stress on the hitch. Looks like a complete redesign with the impeller further forward. Right mark?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Jkochensparger said:


> It appears to let you get closer to garage doors/ objects and leave less snow behind. It is also is lighter so you put less stress on the hitch. Looks like a complete redesign with the impeller further forward. Right mark?


Yes, it's more or less a replica of the cyclone technology.


----------



## BossPlow2010

Jkochensparger said:


> It appears to let you get closer to garage doors/ objects and leave less snow behind. It is also is lighter so you put less stress on the hitch. Looks like a complete redesign with the impeller further forward. Right mark?


I met with Paul on Tuesday, that's what he said, he also mentioned that you don't have to run the back blade with the hybrid


----------



## Mark Oomkes

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Yes, it's more or less a replica of the cyclone technology.


Maybe Cyclone copied Normand.


----------



## boutch

Mark Oomkes said:


> Maybe Cyclone copied Normand.


Artix was the first with that type of blower, first with the bidirectional and later unidirectionel. Jim the Cyclone creator used to work for or with the Artix guy.


----------



## boutch

And now the circle is going around. Artix copying cyclone to make his look like the others.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

boutch said:


> Artix was the first with that type of blower, first with the bidirectional and later unidirectionel. Jim the Cyclone creator used to work for or with the Artix guy.
> 
> View attachment 185707


Blizzard and SnowEx copied Westerns expanding plow...


----------



## Jkochensparger

Lol


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Our Cyclone 92s are in! Anybody still waiting on theirs? Here's a vid. More a first impression on the 5115rs but cyclones are in it.


----------



## Triple L

Ecotune em and get 50k outta that trans!


----------



## MIDTOWNPC

tell the rental company you want 
All the money your paying in rent to be the deposit when you turn them back in only don’t. And buy them

Then in five years you will thank me


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

MIDTOWNPC said:


> tell the rental company you want
> All the money your paying in rent to be the deposit when you turn them back in only don't. And buy them
> 
> Then in five years you will thank me


Because it's throwing away money every month for this year? Only thing with these ones is they're way too fancy to buy. 115hp, sunroof, etc. The reason for renting this year is to test and see how much more productive the 5r is compared to the 4 and see if the added cost is worth it. Thinking long term the base model 5090r will be ideal. Going to be interesting to test these transmissions. Somebody commented on that vid already and says he found the base transmission was way better for driveways. Going to find out I guess!


----------



## Triple L

What's a base transmission? Just a normal 24x24 PowerShift?


----------



## Landgreen

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Because it's throwing away money every month for this year? Only thing with these ones is they're way too fancy to buy. 115hp, sunroof, etc. The reason for renting this year is to test and see how much more productive the 5r is compared to the 4 and see if the added cost is worth it. Thinking long term the base model 5090r will be ideal. Going to be interesting to test these transmissions. Somebody commented on that vid already and says he found the base transmission was way better for driveways. Going to find out I guess!


Where will you gain productivity with trans? Time it takes to switch ranges? Or max speed?

I havent priced the R series but heard its baller $$. Would be curious to see if its worth the extra coin.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L said:


> What's a base transmission? Just a normal 24x24 PowerShift?


I think it's called command quad. It's a 16x16 with fully electronic ranges and auto clutch when you touch the break. Kind of a mix between powershift and ivt in a way. You'd have to run it. Functions like a command8 with less gears and no full auto mode. Only thing you have to do is select what ranges you want to limit it to and hit the lever to shift. Forward and reverse is the same power reverser thing.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Landgreen said:


> Where will you gain productivity with trans? Time it takes to switch ranges? Or max speed?
> 
> I havent priced the R series but heard its baller $$. Would be curious to see if its worth the extra coin.


Max speed, driver comfort, shouldn't slow down at all in deep snow, toys with a 92" or 100" with wings. That's the idea Atleast. Almost all the big boys in Quebec run big tractors. Going to put them up against the 4066r with 92" and see who wins!


----------



## MIDTOWNPC

your younger and they will prob want a down payment when your buying. 
That seems to mentally discourage a lot of people from buying and it seems like a big number. Renting you get 100 write off. But if they let you use that as a down stroke or even 75 percent of it your doing good. 
Then study payment options. 
Once you win the war on snow you get to play chess with the tax man. 

Everyone that I know that collects rent is doing pretty well so consider that. Don’t get me wrong. I rent a bunch of skid steers. 

Not really part of the switching to snow blowing talk but just an idea 

You can buy me a beer sometime


----------



## sven1277

Is it acceptable or bad form to blow snow over cars? We have a couple of commercial accounts that have long runs and parking on both sides. That could definitely be a game changer!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I wouldn't.


----------



## boutch

sven1277 said:


> Is it acceptable or bad form to blow snow over cars? We have a couple of commercial accounts that have long runs and parking on both sides. That could definitely be a game changer!


Bad idea, anything you pick up in the blower that heavier then snow as the possibility of falling on the car or to go through a window.

I put through my blower 4 inch rocks, Plow shoes that someone lost, chuck of pavement. Those never travel as far as the snow. Lol


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BTW...leaves and wet snow really suck as a combo when blowing drives.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> BTW...leaves and wet snow really suck as a combo when blowing drives.


Snowblowing leaves will probably be the only leaf cleanup we will be able to do this fall. Forecast looks poor.

We were dressed and ready to go yesterday. Only squeezed out a short salt run. 4" forecast turned out to .5".

Already broke back window and 3pt hydro valve needs replacing on new JD 5100. Hasnt blown a flake of snow yet.


----------



## White_Gold11

sven1277 said:


> Is it acceptable or bad form to blow snow over cars? We have a couple of commercial accounts that have long runs and parking on both sides. That could definitely be a game changer!


You would have to carry the snow and find open double or triple spots between cars. It could work depending on the situation!


----------



## sven1277

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I've watched a ton of rp blower vids and have never seen one blowing over something important


----------



## PTSolutions

Never thought this thread would be going this long when I originally started it! I haven't been on here much in the last few years. We have actually downsized our plowing portion of business and focus more on land clearing during the winter (bat season)

Still wanted to give an update, we are still using our original Shoule S492 we purchased from Paul. It has been great, no issues other than typical rust. We cut out and replaced some sections and repainted it two years ago. Our original Kioti dk90 tractor is still going strong but we purchased a kioti px9530 this year, clutching got tiring lol.

I'll have to get some pictures up soon. We are still pouring concrete on some jobs and getting the salters and plows ready. Crazy year...


----------



## kennyh

I just sold my shoule s492 wish i had is last night. Never took that little shovel out of holster

View attachment 186287


----------



## sven1277

How do larger tractors handle hilly terrain? We have a lot of driveways that are either up or down hill. Nokian tires seem to be the best choice but I wonder if a blower like the pxpl would be better than simply a rear pull, giving the ability to blow backing in to the more challenging driveways while still using it as a conventional rp blower for easier drives that can be simply backed into. Driving over snow isn't that difficult on flat ground but can be quite difficult on hills.


----------



## RAZOR

I'm experimenting with snow tires on the front and my usual r4 tires on the rear. I just got them installed on the rims and hopefully get to try them out when we get a break from the snow. I'm sure they won't be any where as good as Nokians but for a fraction of the price it might be a reasonable alternative.


----------



## Landgreen

sven1277 said:


> How do larger tractors handle hilly terrain? We have a lot of driveways that are either up or down hill. Nokian tires seem to be the best choice but I wonder if a blower like the pxpl would be better than simply a rear pull, giving the ability to blow backing in to the more challenging driveways while still using it as a conventional rp blower for easier drives that can be simply backed into. Driving over snow isn't that difficult on flat ground but can be quite difficult on hills.


Our tractors dont do very well. They have R1's on them. I passed on a few drives this fall knowing they would be trouble. There are a couple hills on our routes I tell the operators to avoid unless already plowed and salted.

If your potential client base has difficult grades I think it would be best to shell out the coin for nokians. Steeper drives = more $$ unless your market is saturated with a lot of competitors.


----------



## sven1277

I know the nokians will help. it still seems like a bidirectional blower would be the best option. Does it work as well as a rear pull compared to dedicated units or the new cyclone style blowers?


----------



## boutch

Hi Sven1277, I was debating on getting PXPL before getting my inverted. They dont really blow snow going Fwd, they scrape really well and eventually when there is enough snow built up between the scraper and hugger it will start processing the snow. You need to raise the scraper and reverse to get rid of the pile left in.

It a good concept where a inverted isn't practical and you dont want to leave pile of snow in front of customer garage door.


----------



## sven1277

Ok that's what it looked like in videos. Especially since the unit raises up when the scraper blade is lowered. So it seems like the best plan of attack on uphill/downhill drives to simply back in a short way, drive out blowing, back in a little farther, repeat.


----------



## boutch

sven1277 said:


> Ok that's what it looked like in videos. Especially since the unit raises up when the scraper blade is lowered. So it seems like the best plan of attack on uphill/downhill drives to simply back in a short way, drive out blowing, back in a little farther, repeat.


With nokian you probably go up most drive in one shot. I go up this one in a foot of snow without issue. I service one downhill almost as bad blowing going up of it with the inverted blower, but i got to lock both axle and I make it up spinning. Once a while I only make it up half way, I back up and second pull makes it.


----------



## sven1277

That's impressive.


----------



## boutch

I Added 2 paddles to my inverted blower to push the snow into the fan. Hopefully it leave less snow on the street especially when it is wet snow and it doesnt throw too much ice and rock at the tractor. Im Hoping to try in soon and not having to pull the plasma cutter out. Lol


----------



## Enzo

RAZOR said:


> I'm experimenting with snow tires on the front and my usual r4 tires on the rear. I just got them installed on the rims and hopefully get to try them out when we get a break from the snow. I'm sure they won't be any where as good as Nokians but for a fraction of the price it might be a reasonable alternative.
> 
> View attachment 186324


What brand tire is that? We put something very similar on just the front of our L6060 and its night and day difference. They might just well be what you put on. The brand is BKT and the model is the Snow Trac Tire.


----------



## RAZOR

Enzo said:


> What brand tire is that? We put something very similar on just the front of our L6060 and its night and day difference. They might just well be what you put on. The brand is BKT and the model is the Snow Trac Tire.


Yes they are BKT Snow Trac. It looks like they changed the name on their website to Snow Ride or some thing like that. I put them on my wife's tractor and the other night I was sliding around a lot with wet snow and bit of ice under it. I asked her and she didn't notice it was slippery so maybe the tires are working.


----------



## Enzo

What has everyone done for fender on the front tires? Our Kubota L6060 didn't come with any and I believe our dealer said they don't make them for the USA version of this tractor but the Candian had the option. Does anyone have a suggestion on what to do?


----------



## Neige

Enzo not sure if you tried my brother John yet but I think he just ordered a pair. You can reach him at 514-710-4675


----------



## Enzo

Neige said:


> Enzo not sure if you tried my brother John yet but I think he just ordered a pair. You can reach him at 514-710-4675


Thanks Paul!


----------



## boutch

Enzo said:


> What has everyone done for fender on the front tires? Our Kubota L6060 didn't come with any and I believe our dealer said they don't make them for the USA version of this tractor but the Candian had the option. Does anyone have a suggestion on what to do?


You can try that kubota dealer too. They probably could ship them to you. I get all my pronovost parts ship to nova scotia from them. The fender and frame kit are about 800 cad and they sell nitrogen accumulator kit for the 3 point hitch too. That an other 800 cad.

You can buy just the plastic fenders for around 80$ and make your own fender frames, That the route Im going.


----------



## boutch

boutch said:


> You can try that kubota dealer too. They probably could ship them to you. I get all my pronovost parts ship to nova scotia from them. The fenders and frame kit are about 800 cad and they sell nitrogen accumulator kit for the 3 point hitch too. That an other 800 cad.
> 
> You can buy just the plastic fenders for around 80$ and make your own fender frames, That the route I going.
> 
> View attachment 187135


Here the frame and fender I built for my M100x. Gonna do the same to a l6060


----------



## Enzo

Maybe I can have a local welder make something up like that.


----------



## boutch

Enzo said:


> Maybe I can have a local welder make something up like that.


I'll try to make my set next week. Here hows the factory kubota frame kit look like. They bolt on both side of the drive gears, just to give you an idea.


----------



## Enzo

boutch said:


> I'll try to make my set next week. Here hows the factory kubota frame kit look like. They bolt on both side of the drive gears, just to give you an idea.
> 
> View attachment 187138


thanks!


----------



## edyandrade

i have 2015 4.3L v6 4x4 6 speed automatic gmc sierra,i want to put a light duty plow on it just for my driveway and family members,can you plow with v6? v6 does have enough power? i been hearing different answers,some said i can,other not!


----------



## Jkochensparger

It should be fine with light duty plow doing a driveway. Unless your driveway is a 3 mile Road and in a heavy snow belt. 

This post should really be in residential snow plowing.


----------



## boutch

boutch said:


> I Added 2 paddles to my inverted blower to push the snow into the fan. Hopefully it leave less snow on the street especially when it is wet snow and it doesnt throw too much ice and rock at the tractor. Im Hoping to try in soon and not having to pull the plasma cutter out. Lol
> View attachment 186506
> View attachment 186507
> View attachment 186508


First tryout with the 2 extra paddles. Not big snow event, only 2 inches on the ground but it made a difference for sure. The inverted blower doesnt leave much snow on the road at all. That a 2014 pronovost P74 INV.


----------



## boutch

Enzo said:


> Maybe I can have a local welder make something up like that.


Hi Enzo. I started fabricating the frame for my front fender. Here some pics if you want to show your local welding shop. I Still need to add 2 braces to keep the end from bouncing. Also I got a sheet of plastic 4x8 1/8 thick. I'll cut my own fender out of it. I find the kubota finder to short and narrow.


----------



## Jkochensparger

Has anyone used any non stick Chemicals on their snowblowers to prevent snow clogging or sticking to the metal? I remember an old timer telling me he would paint his snowplow with antifreeze and snow would never stick to his blade, But I’m sure the environment suffered.


----------



## Jkochensparger

boutch said:


> Hi Enzo. I started fabricating the frame for my front fender. Here some pics if you want to show your local welding shop. I Still need to add 2 braces to keep the end from bouncing. Also I got a sheet of plastic 4x8 1/8 thick. I'll cut my own fender out of it. I find the kubota finder to short and narrow.
> 
> View attachment 187327
> 
> 
> View attachment 187328
> 
> 
> View attachment 187329
> 
> 
> View attachment 187330
> 
> 
> View attachment 187331


Nice fabrication


----------



## DeVries

Fluid film does the trick too


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Razor it looks like we had the same idea today.


----------



## Mr.Markus

Jkochensparger said:


> Has anyone used any non stick Chemicals on their snowblowers to prevent snow clogging or sticking to the metal? I remember an old timer telling me he would paint his snowplow with antifreeze and snow would never stick to his blade, But I'm sure the environment suffered.


Buy some cheap spray on turtle wax and hit it between events. Rain x comes in a spray bottle now too but it's not recommended for painted surfaces. Snow seems to wear the paint off anyway so how bad could it be.


----------



## RAZOR

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Razor it looks like we had the same idea today.
> 
> View attachment 187424


Looks like you are copying me. Next thing you know you will be buying tractors from my dealer too. Lol


----------



## sven1277

I'm curious on the pxpl, is it simply a forward blower that has a scraper to pull away from garages doors, etc, or will it function equally as well as a rear pull style? I have a commercial route I'm seriously considering a tractor/front plow/rear blower setup. A couple multi home residentials have roads and driveways to do, which would be fine for a regular rp. Two other commercial residential properties have parking lots that are long, parking on both sides, leaving only the far ends to place snow. There is also a walkway in the center of the end opposite the street at each of the lots. Plowing has always been tough not spilling snow into the sidewalk. Backing in with the tractor blowing forward, recycling the snow till the end of the run could work really well and allow placing the snow plenty far away from the sidewalk. For some of the other properties, using the blower as a traditional rp would work best. Will the pxpl function well for this? I figure in this scenario, tractor would blow 35% going backwards and 65% forward.

If that isn't a great way to use the pxpl, the other option on the long, narrow lots that can only take snow at the ends would be to back in and either recycle the snow while driving out or using it as a box blade till the end. That would work also. For this setup, I'd be most likely looking at the cyclone style.


----------



## boutch

Enzo said:


> What has everyone done for fender on the front tires? Our Kubota L6060 didn't come with any and I believe our dealer said they don't make them for the USA version of this tractor but the Candian had the option. Does anyone have a suggestion on what to do?


I finished the front fenders today. I also made rear fender extensions too.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

boutch said:


> I finished the front fenders today. I also made rear fender extensions too.
> 
> View attachment 187616
> 
> 
> View attachment 187617
> 
> 
> View attachment 187618
> 
> 
> View attachment 187619
> 
> 
> View attachment 187620


I'd like to make a few of those rear fender extensions as well. Looks great. Is that just sheet metal?


----------



## boutch

NickSnow&Mow said:


> I'd like to make a few of those rear fender extensions as well. Looks great. Is that just sheet metal?


Thanks, not metal. I bought a 4'x8' sheet of 1/8" plastic. One sheet did the front and back. And made bracket that sandwiched between the fender.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

So my rant continued. 

Why do we only hear the positives of tractor\blower combos? There have been a multitude of questions asked regarding the accumulators to reduce the shock to the 3 point system while running down the road, but no one ever really says how necessary they are. 

I've spent more than I care to think of, remember or dream of repairing the 3 points on all 3 of my blower tractors over the past 12 months. Cracked rockshaft arms, blown seals, blown cylinders, etc plus downtime. It's been enough to almost drive me to drinking like Ryan does. 

So I'm telling everyone...get an accumulator for your 3 point if you don't have one. For about 20% of the repair cost, you can have one. You won't regret it. We got 2 from a hydraulics shop. We gave them the lift cylinder dimensions, they determined the size we needed and charged it for us. Took less than an hour to install and what a HUGE difference it makes. No more blower slamming down when going over bumps, dips, etc. We are waiting for the dimensions of the cylinder on our 4720 and will be getting another for that one. 

The whole tractor\blower concept is fantastic but since no one was really talking about it, in all honesty, I've lost a lot of money on my driveway routes now. I am convinced this will eliminate the broken 3 point issues. 

Rant over...for now.


----------



## GMC Driver

I don't know Mark, but we haven't seen the issues with the 3PTH that you have. Had the same blower on the same tractor for past 4 seasons, and on another 2 years previous to that, and no problems to date.

Are you transporting between sites alot? Ours is on site all winter, so little road travel. That must make a difference.


----------



## Triple L

Michigan, best roads in America LOL


----------



## Mark Oomkes

All of our tractors are on the road varying amounts of time.


----------



## Unraveller

We put accumulaters on all 6 tractors this year. And although we didn't break anything last year (other than some teeth and tailbones) I noticed bent 3/4" pins holding on for dear life. 

If we hadn't added them this year, I think it was just a matter of time before something snapped. Those 82" hardox Normands are heavy SOBs for L6060 or 3/4 series Deere.

I wasn't thrilled about spending over a grand per tractor, but no regrets at all.


----------



## Herm Witte

Triple L said:


> Michigan, best roads in America LOL


You hit the nail on the head.


----------



## BossPlow2010

Triple L said:


> Michigan, best roads in America LOL


Best bridges too..


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> Best bridges too..


Where???


----------



## BossPlow2010

Mark Oomkes said:


> Where???


Over here, they just built a new one to connect the fine people of downriver with the fine city of Detroit....


----------



## Defcon 5

BossPlow2010 said:


> Over here, they just built a new one to connect the fine people of downriver with the fine city of Detroit....


They did??...Where??


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> All of our tractors are on the road varying amounts of time.


I haven't had any issues with my 6 series tractors with 3 pt hitch. And I do a lot of running on rough terrain, must be just on the smaller tractors?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> I haven't had any issues with my 6 series tractors with 3 pt hitch. And I do a lot of running on rough terrain, must be just on the smaller tractors?


Must bee...


----------



## GMC Driver

CAT 245ME said:


> I haven't had any issues with my 6 series tractors with 3 pt hitch. And I do a lot of running on rough terrain, must be just on the smaller tractors?


That may be it too. We run the blowers on a larger frame Kubota and not the L6060s. Although the Kubota frame is likely no heavier than what you would see on a 4 series Deere.


----------



## boutch

Did anyone broke parts on the L6060 3 point hitch cause by the blower bouncing up and down on the road? 

my self I find the L6060 not bad compared to the M100x for the snowblower bouncing. The blower on the L6060 is 900 lbs vs 1400 on the M100 and the L6060 is not as fast driving around, that probably help too.


----------



## Unraveller

boutch said:


> Did anyone broke parts on the L6060 3 point hitch cause by the blower bouncing up and down on the road?
> 
> my self I find the L6060 not bad compared to the M100x for the snowblower bouncing. The blower on the L6060 is 900 lbs vs 1400 on the M100 and the L6060 is not as fast driving around, that probably help too.


I've bent the pins on a few, but haven't broken any parts.


----------



## RAZOR

The biggest issue I had with the 3ph on the L5740/L6060 was the snap rings that hold the shaft that the lift cylinder arms are mounted to were breaking. Once the first one breaks new snap rings last minutes before they go too. The cure was to tap the end of the shaft to install large washers with bolts. No problems since.


----------



## Jkochensparger

Marks rant
Who has a good source for the accumulator?
I contacted the guy that did nix’s 4066r and the set up was $1000 and 400 to ship to the us. I could not stomach the shipping.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Jkochensparger said:


> Marks rant
> Who has a good source for the accumulator?
> I contacted the guy that did nix's 4066r and the set up was $1000 and 400 to ship to the us. I could not stomach the shipping.


Where are you?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Jkochensparger said:


> Marks rant
> Who has a good source for the accumulator?
> I contacted the guy that did nix's 4066r and the set up was $1000 and 400 to ship to the us. I could not stomach the shipping.


He wanted $1000!? I paid $1200 for 3 accumulators shipping in.


----------



## Jkochensparger

20 min north of Detroit


----------



## SHAWZER

Some snow porn for Mark OO .......


----------



## SHAWZER




----------



## SHAWZER




----------



## SHAWZER

Not much snow but blower worked good .


----------



## SHAWZER




----------



## Mark Oomkes

Whatever...


----------



## Landgreen

SHAWZER said:


> Not much snow but blower worked good .


Is that a McKee? Looks like the one I have sans motor on top. Works good for blowing banks back. It blew a hole in the drum. Had a few more hours on it than I thought when I bought it last winter.


----------



## SHAWZER

Yes a 720 Mckee


----------



## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> Did anyone broke parts on the L6060 3 point hitch cause by the blower bouncing up and down on the road?
> 
> my self I find the L6060 not bad compared to the M100x for the snowblower bouncing. The blower on the L6060 is 900 lbs vs 1400 on the M100 and the L6060 is not as fast driving around, that probably help too.


According to the manufactures plate on my Normand blower it weighs #1850 without backblade which I have a homemade one on it, I had wanted to purchase the Normand HYB N100 and build my own hydraulic wings for it. That blower weighs #2250 as is and was the reason I traded my 6D for a 6M as well as having a faster road speed and more hp.

For those who have the 5E's I recommend the 6D's or 6E's as they are called now as another option. I had mine for three winters and have nothing bad to say about them, I just wanted a power quad transmission vs the 24/12 in the 6105D I had, at times I wish I had kept the 6D.


----------



## boutch

boutch said:


> First tryout with the 2 extra paddles. Not big snow event, only 2 inches on the ground but it made a difference for sure. The inverted blower doesnt leave much snow on the road at all. That a 2014 pronovost P74 INV.
> 
> View attachment 187265
> 
> 
> View attachment 187267
> 
> 
> View attachment 187268
> 
> 
> View attachment 187269


Question for Nick or anyone with a cyclone/hybrid blower. I'm really happy with the improvement the 2 extra paddles did but it would be even better if the auger spun faster. I saw somewhere that the cyclone auger spin much faster then a regular inverted blower. I want to put a smaller sprocket on the auger to speed it up, Nick do you know the size of the sprocket on the cyclone or how fast it spin vs regular inv? And I'm assuming it is the same size on the driving shaft. Thank you!


----------



## SHAWZER




----------



## SHAWZER

Pics from when I took the blower into town


----------



## Mark Oomkes

SHAWZER said:


> View attachment 188152
> View attachment 188153


Do you always drive around with a tent in front of you?


----------



## SHAWZER

Yes , my wife likes it when I do .  .........never know when I may need to camp out .


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

boutch said:


> Question for Nick or anyone with a cyclone/hybrid blower. I'm really happy with the improvement the 2 extra paddles did but it would be even better if the auger spun faster. I saw somewhere that the cyclone auger spin much faster then a regular inverted blower. I want to put a smaller sprocket on the auger to speed it up, Nick do you know the size of the sprocket on the cyclone or how fast it spin vs regular inv? And I'm assuming it is the same size on the driving shaft. Thank you!


Not sure about the size, I'll ask Jim for you. Only thing to watch is that you don't over feed the impeller.


----------



## sven1277

We have multiple condo associations that we go back the following day after the storm to clear empty parking spaces. For you guys using blowers for commercial properties, do you use the tractor/blower for this type of cleanup or just go in with a truck?


----------



## edgeair

sven1277 said:


> We have multiple condo associations that we go back the following day after the storm to clear empty parking spaces. For you guys using blowers for commercial properties, do you use the tractor/blower for this type of cleanup or just go in with a truck?


For us its all about the situation. More often than not it would be with a tractor/blower or small loader depending on the route and the property.


----------



## boutch

Saw this on some European inverted snow blower. Trip spring on the 3 point hitch, pretty good idea for operator with the habit of clipping manhole cover.


----------



## White_Gold11

Question how is your normand or pronovost inverted blowers fan protected? Is there a shear or a slip? Not that driveways have all that much for hazards but we encounter busted curbing from the city at the ends, random rip rap, large ice chunks etc.. looking to get into an inverted style and know they will see less then the sidewalk machines for hazards but there is always something when you do 100’s or 1000’s of driveways.


----------



## Herm Witte

Easily accessible shear bolts.


----------



## boutch

Herm Witte said:


> Easily accessible shear bolts.


Put the shear bolt end on the tractor side


----------



## Unraveller

boutch said:


> Put the shear bolt end on the tractor side


+10


----------



## Landgreen

Had a chance to get some video this morning.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Looks great Chris!


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Looks great Chris!


Thanks. That's the 5115M. The loaner we have. The extra goodies on the M-series sure are nice. Our new 5100 is still at the dealer for repair...


----------



## Landgreen

Here's another. That little pine took a good shot unfortunately


----------



## Herm Witte

I don't even want to think about residential work without our fleet of inverted blowers.


----------



## Landgreen

Herm Witte said:


> I don't even want to think about residential work without our fleet of inverted blowers.


I finished the route with my truck after the breakdown. Only 13 drives were left but felt like an eternity.


----------



## PTSolutions

I would say it is about 2.5 times the number of drives done in an hour vs a pickup.

That number will only go up as the drives hey more complicated also. h-shaped drives and ones with off set garages are a pain for a truck.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> I finished the route with my truck after the breakdown. Only 13 drives were left but felt like an eternity.


I went through the same thing early in the season. Flat front tire on the 6M, in just 2" of dry snow it took 2 hours longer to finish the last 1/3 of the route with a truck.


----------



## awhip

Thoughts on deere 5100e? Seems like good bang for buck, and i like 5 year warranty. i found a nice used normand 92"to mount on it. Are the ag tires ok or would you spend the coin on nokians right out the gate? It would be on a large condo complex then go out to do resi drives, some are steep. Kubota wants to sell a 7060 with normand 92-280, tractor seems light to me like only 5400lbs. I know those are 2 different tractors to compare...


----------



## Herm Witte

awhip said:


> Thoughts on deere 5100e? Seems like good bang for buck, and i like 5 year warranty. i found a nice used normand 92"to mount on it. Are the ag tires ok or would you spend the coin on nokians right out the gate? It would be on a large condo complex then go out to do resi drives, some are steep. Kubota wants to sell a 7060 with normand 92-280, tractor seems light to me like only 5400lbs. I know those are 2 different tractors to compare...


We have two 5085 E's that use inverted blowers. This winter we added nitrogen accumulator to both machines. I highly recommend that, probably before any tire upgrade. Both are five years old with an absolute minimum of maintenance. A little extra HP wont hurt. Both our machines have Ag tires. Nokians would be a nice upgrade.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Herm Witte said:


> We have two 5085 E's that use inverted blowers. This winter we added nitrogen accumulator to both machines. I highly recommend that, probably before any tire upgrade. Both are five years old with an absolute minimum of maintenance. A little extra HP wont hurt. Both our machines have Ag tires. Nokians would be a nice upgrade.


Herm if you don't mind my asking, how many drives does one 5085E service and how long does it take to complete the route.


----------



## Herm Witte

CAT 245ME said:


> Herm if you don't mind my asking, how many drives does one 5085E service and how long does it take to complete the route.


Routes vary in numbers as it relates to distances involved and type of residential work. 5085 E route 66 stops, including some residential roadways and a little strung out. NH T4.100 86 stops both routes are comleted in about 6 hours. We try to schedule all our routes for no more than six hours. I checked two other routes and both are in the mid 80's stop range. Density is the key and we're not there yet, but much better than we used to be.


----------



## plow4beer

Herm Witte said:


> Routes vary in numbers as it relates to distances involved and type of residential work. 5085 E route 66 stops, including some residential roadways and a little strung out. NH T4.100 86 stops both routes are comleted in about 6 hours. We try to schedule all our routes for no more than six hours. I checked two other routes and both are in the mid 80's stop range. Density is the key and we're not there yet, but much better than we used to be.


what is the avg gal/hr these types of tractors consume when snowblowing drives?.....I keep threatening to get a tractor/inverted blower, but have little use for one outside of snow...makes it hard for me to justify moving away from the skid steer/blower setup


----------



## Herm Witte

Not sure, don't keep track. Key word here is sip vs. consume.


----------



## Unraveller

plow4beer said:


> what is the avg gal/hr these types of tractors consume when snowblowing drives?.....I keep threatening to get a tractor/inverted blower, but have little use for one outside of snow...makes it hard for me to justify moving away from the skid steer/blower setup


For a L6060 with an 82" blower: 1.3 g/hour. Or 5L/hr.


----------



## plow4beer

Unraveller said:


> For a L6060 with an 82" blower: 1.3 g/hour. Or 5L/hr.


That's pretty good....so that means herms tractors would be about the same on avg snows?...I thought I read the 90+/- hp tractors "sip" less fuel when dealing with heavier snows, than the 60+/- tractors, due to not having to run them full throttle?


----------



## CAT 245ME

Unraveller said:


> For a L6060 with an 82" blower: 1.3 g/hour. Or 5L/hr.


How many drives is the 6060 servicing as well as route time?


----------



## Unraveller

CAT 245ME said:


> How many drives is the 6060 servicing as well as route time?


My density still sucks, I am servicing 400,000 people with 6 tractors (2nd year), 400 clients.

My route is 64 properties and 25 Miles, I can do it in 5 hours. Although I can do the first 20 properties in an hour, when density is at it's best (20 properties, 6 miles).

Best route is 80 properties, 22 miles. Takes 6.5 hours for a first year driver, I could probably do it in 5 or 5.5.

Another route is 81 properties and 37 miles. It's about 7 hours for a good driver.

Roughly speaking, we are about 5 miles and 12 properties per hour.

Ideal density would be about 3-4 miles and 20 properties per hour. 5-6 hour route time


----------



## Unraveller

plow4beer said:


> That's pretty good....so that means herms tractors would be about the same on avg snows?...I thought I read the 90+/- hp tractors "sip" less fuel when dealing with heavier snows, than the 60+/- tractors, due to not having to run them full throttle?


I honestly don't know, I've heard people say it's about double the fuel usage for a larger tractor. But frankly it's irrelevant if it's even SLIGHTLY faster. double fuel usage would only equate $1000 per year, so if you can do even 2 more properties on the entire route, you pay the fuel difference. (machinery cost on the other hand...???)

I have to run the numbers on an M5 and 39 km/h road speed, and residual value, etc, etc, but I will probably add one next year for our experienced driver. A lot of our business is in >60 year old homes though, and clearance will prevent tractors of this size from doing a lot of properties in Old Town. So it will stay in the burbs.


----------



## boutch

Got my Accumulator in the mail today for the rear 3 point. Going on the l6060 tomorrow. 426$ CAD for the kit. 2 different kit are available. One diaphragm type accumulator and the other one piston type. They sold me the diaphragm type because it is more compact to fit with the backhoe subframe.


----------



## Landgreen

Thought I would share fuel usage for our tractors for those curious 

John Deere 5085E 2.78 gal/hour. Not in economy mode.
John Deere 5100E 2.56 gal/hr. 90% of time using economy mode


----------



## John_DeereGreen

I wonder what a truck would use per hour doing the same driveways.


----------



## plow4beer

Landgreen said:


> Thought I would share fuel usage for our tractors for those curious
> 
> John Deere 5085E 2.78 gal/hour. Not in economy mode.
> John Deere 5100E 2.56 gal/hr. 90% of time using economy mode


Thanks....it's been hard for me to get (or even take the time to) an accurate reading of fuel economy on our skid when running the blower...for one, the trans tank that always fills it has no meter, and 2nd this is the first winter we've given it (blower) a chance..I've had the blower for a couple yrs, and my operator & myself have been reluctant to change what we already knew worked very well, but now that we've had a decent winter and he's use to it, we both realize it's the shiznit...either way, I've "guessed" our fuel usage to be pretty similar to what you posted....which is more than what it was when running the blade, but that's been offset by the performance of the blower most of this winter

We still keep a 10ft blade parked with the machine...there are still situations where we will use the blade instead of the blower, due to it being the more efficient method...plus it's good backup.


----------



## boutch

The Accumulator is installed. When pretty smooth beside missing a ORB fitting in the kit. Also the engineer must have talked to the maintainer for once, nice that the cab floor to access the hydro on top of the transmission just flips up with the seat.


----------



## boutch

John_DeereGreen said:


> I wonder what a truck would use per hour doing the same driveways.


Before I got the tractor I plowed with a 2007 ram 2500 Hemi I could plow about 8-9 hrs on a tank. So about 3 us gal an hrs.

My curent truck is a 07 3500 5.9 cummins I dont plow much with it, but I do about 10 long gravel drive and clean up curbs after the city plows goes by. All easy plowing and quicker then going around in the tractor to clean up. From last fill up I'm under 2 us gal an hr.

The l6060 averages 1.3 us gal an hrs.

My m100x was around 2.5 us gal an hrs

The wierd think is plowing in a truck seem to take about half the fuel an hrs vs driving at 70 mph.


----------



## edgeair

boutch said:


> The Accumulator is installed. When pretty smooth beside missing a ORB fitting in the kit. Also the engineer must have talked to the maintainer for once, nice that the cab floor to access the hydro on top of the transmission just flips up with the seat.


Thanks for posting those photos. I bought 2 "kits" for our L6060's a couple years back, but never had the opportunity to put them in and wasn't sure where to start. Did the bracket for the bottle come with the kit?


----------



## boutch

edgeair said:


> Thanks for posting those photos. I bought 2 "kits" for our L6060's a couple years back, but never had the opportunity to put them in and wasn't sure where to start. Did the bracket for the bottle come with the kit?


Hi Edgeair, yes it did but it didnt fit. I had to drill and extra hole. Do you have a flow regulator in your kit.

Also, the hose fitting on top of the transmission it's in a bad spot. You cannot really get a full flat turn with a regular 7/8 wrench. You need 2 wrenches to save you some aggravation, a regular and a offset wrench or a crow foot. I didnt have either, I sacrificed a 22 mm into a 7/8 offset wrench with little heat. Lol


----------



## edgeair

boutch said:


> Hi Edgeair, yes it did but it didnt fit. I had to drill and extra hole. Do you have a flow regulator in your kit.
> 
> Also, the hose fitting on top of the transmission it's in a bad spot. You cannot really get a full flat turn with a regular 7/8 wrench. You need 2 wrenches to save you some aggravation, a regular and a offset wrench or a crow foot. I didnt have either, I sacrificed a 22 mm into a 7/8 offset wrench with little heat. Lol


Yes, I have a flow regulator, but the "kit" isn't really a kit as it was just some parts that someone had used to make it work. I like your install location and hose routing better than the original idea that I received from another party. The parts I received would not require adding the fitting by the top of the transmission, but removing the other end of the hose that attaches to the lift cylinder. It adds some hose and isn't as pretty, but maybe easier to install... Guess I'll find out. The roads are getting worse every year and that tractor is definitely bouncy.


----------



## Landgreen

edgeair said:


> Yes, I have a flow regulator, but the "kit" isn't really a kit as it was just some parts that someone had used to make it work.


Is everyone using a flow regulator on theirs? After installing an accumulator on one of our JD's the blower tends to bounce wildly on occasion when lifting it while tractor is backing up. I'm thinking a regulator would be the cure.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Is everyone using a flow regulator on theirs? After installing an accumulator on one of our JD's the blower tends to bounce wildly on occasion when lifting it while tractor is backing up. I'm thinking a regulator would be the cure.


Our 4720 jumps a bit when lifting, the others are fine.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Our 4720 jumps a bit when lifting, the others are fine.


Do you know what pressure youre at? Mine are 1200psi


----------



## boutch

Landgreen said:


> Is everyone using a flow regulator on theirs? After installing an accumulator on one of our JD's the blower tends to bounce wildly on occasion when lifting it while tractor is backing up. I'm thinking a regulator would be the cure.


also without one the tractor hydraulic must try to correct the position of the 3 point every time it bounce. they told me to restrict the flow to the accumulator and free flow out when plumbing in the flow restrictor.

my flow restrictor is one way restricted, return free flow through a check valve.

with to much flow it ride like a car with bad shocks absorber, restrict the flow and it absorb the shock and come to a stop. im about 2 turns out now, 3 turns was to much. but will vary with size of the accumulator and weight of the blower.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Do you know what pressure youre at? Mine are 1200psi


Sorry, I don't. I can axe.

No adjustment needed for ours after bouncing.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Sorry, I don't. I can axe.
> 
> No adjustment needed for ours after bouncing.


I assume its Mark at Union who filled yours and so probably same pressure as mine.


----------



## boutch

Mark Oomkes said:


> Sorry, I don't. I can axe.
> 
> No adjustment needed for ours after bouncing.


Hi Mark. No need to readjust the height after the blower bounce, but If it is continuously bouncing the feed back to the servo valve keep moving. Then the tractor hydraulic is always hunting. Always re-adjusting to find the desired value you set from the cab lever.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

boutch said:


> Hi Mark. No need to readjust the height after the blower bounce, but If it is continuously bouncing the feed back to the servo valve keep moving. Then the tractor hydraulic is always hunting. Always re-adjusting to find the desired value you set from the cab lever.


Gotcha


----------



## boutch

Last year I added a 3/8 x 1 inch mild steel flat bar to cutting hedge of my pronovost 92 INV. Did 4-5 outing last year. This fall I chopped the hedge down to 72 inches to install it on my pronovost 74INV. Did 10 more storm with it. I'm very happy with the scraping. I replaced it again today with an other mild steel bar. I need to find some ardox to get more then 15 event out of it. But beside that it crape much better.

Also I modified the bottom of the blower to take a 4 inches edge vs the stock 2 inches


----------



## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> Last year I added a 3/8 x 1 inch mild steel flat bar to cutting hedge of my pronovost 92 INV. Did 4-5 outing last year. This fall I chopped the hedge down to 72 inches to install it on my pronovost 74INV. Did 10 more storm with it. I'm very happy with the scraping. I replaced it again today with an other mild steel bar. I need to find some ardox to get more then 15 event out of it. But beside that it crape much better.
> 
> Also I modified the bottom of the blower to take a 4 inches edge vs the stock 2 inches


Do you have any drives that are concrete or brick surface?


----------



## boutch

CAT 245ME said:


> Do you have any drives that are concrete or brick surface?


Hey Cat245. I do one concrete, no problem. I stay away from paver block


----------



## sven1277

So yesterday we had a heavy storm. Started off with 4-5" of heavy, wet snow which then switched to heavy rain. We have 2 Kubota b series and neither operator wanted to use the front blowers. The Honda blowers and the blower on our ventrac ssv sidewalk machine plugged constantly with the slop we had. Switched to the blade on the ventrac. ln comparison, how would a hybrid invert work in these conditions?


----------



## boutch

I watched a lot of video of them in wet snow and slush. They do grate and don't plug. The fan designs isnt really different then a regular blower or inverted. Just how the snow get to it. We have a lot of wet snow here in Nova Scotia. The only time I plug the shute is if I overfeed the blower and the RPM drop to low. Yesterday was my first time plugging the blower this year on the l6060 after 12 evens. I recycled the snow to long to clear a garage and nearly stalled it and plugged the shute.


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## sven1277

Ok that's really reassuring. thanks!


----------



## boutch

sven1277 said:


> Ok that's really reassuring. thanks!


sorry I wasn't 100 % clear in my previous posting. I dont have a hybride or cyclone yet. I wanted one but I decided to wait an extra year and see what they can improve. The Cyclone are changing a couple things. Bilodeau are doing galvanized now too.

So I got a pronovost inverted for now. The Cyclone use the same fan an shute as a pronovost inverted or conventional. They shouldn't plug anymore then a regular. Also I heard they even plug less then a regular blower. Kind of make sense, you cannot realy overfeed them by going to fast like with a convention or inverted because the augger has to trough the snow in the fan.


----------



## boutch

Watch "firstvid" on YouTube





attempting to make a blower video and I caught a stupid garden hose. Ripped it off clean at the tap.


----------



## BUFF

boutch said:


> Watch "firstvid" on YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attempting to make a blower video and I caught a stupid garden hose. Ripped it off clean at the tap.


And here I thought extension cords were the main hazard's to deal with in Canada....


----------



## SHAWZER

I think only in Southern Ontario ......


----------



## boutch

BUFF said:


> And here I thought extension cords were the main hazard's to deal with in Canada....


Haha! Put that trough before too. With a bunch of other stuff; Hockey stick, hockey puck, door mat, flyers.


----------



## Unraveller

boutch said:


> Watch "firstvid" on YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attempting to make a blower video and I caught a stupid garden hose. Ripped it off clean at the tap.


Did you get an actual video as well?


----------



## boutch

Yes. The camera was set on dash cam mode. Only taking 2 mins videos. I Was trying to piece it together but I'm giving up. Here the beginning until I get caught in the hose.

Watch "L6060 with a Pronovost P74Inv" on YouTube


----------



## CAT 245ME

Thought some of you might like this, it's a local tractor. 6130R with a new Normand N100 HYB


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME said:


> Thought some of you might like this, it's a local tractor. 6130R with a new Normand N100 HYB


Somethings up wth that chain or tensioner, but more importantly what is he trying to open up to? Don't tell me that's some sort of entrance to anything. What a pile of snow.


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Somethings up wth that chain or tensioner, but more importantly what is he trying to open up to? Don't tell me that's some sort of entrance to anything. What a pile of snow.


That was after about a week of strong winds, in that area they had at times 3 front end loaders pushing back snow on main roads to prevent them from drifting shut. They worked around the clock for a week til the winds finally died down. I don't think he has a push blower. I know my Deere dealer sold him that blower towards the end of the winter.


----------



## stevesmowing

Can you send me the part numbers or post on here what you used and where you got them? I have a couple L6060's I need to do the same thing to. Also need to do a m100gx. Thanks. [email protected]



boutch said:


> The Accumulator is installed. When pretty smooth beside missing a ORB fitting in the kit. Also the engineer must have talked to the maintainer for once, nice that the cab floor to access the hydro on top of the transmission just flips up with the seat.
> 
> View attachment 190677
> 
> 
> View attachment 190678
> 
> 
> View attachment 190679
> 
> 
> View attachment 190680
> 
> 
> View attachment 190681


----------



## Lil Drake

Hybrid prices? What are you guys seeing in US dollars? I would really like an 80" cyclone as I really like the idea of galvanized but also like the idea that there is a normand dealer 10 miles away. If I went with the normand it would be the 82" hybrid


----------



## boutch

stevesmowing said:


> Can you send me the part numbers or post on here what you used and where you got them? I have a couple L6060's I need to do the same thing to. Also need to do a m100gx. Thanks. [email protected]


Sorry I just saw this. Go back to page 134. The info is there, dates 8 Dec 18


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Lil Drake said:


> Hybrid prices? What are you guys seeing in US dollars? I would really like an 80" cyclone as I really like the idea of galvanized but also like the idea that there is a normand dealer 10 miles away. If I went with the normand it would be the 82" hybrid


Send me a pm. I got the price list I'm US as I just ordered 10 myself.


----------



## CK82

Do any of you all run a poly edge on your inverted for residential driveways. We use truck plows currently or skidloader plows and blowers with steel edges and the driveways we service almost all are becoming rust streaked. 

Does an inverted need this in your opinion in? Or does it work?


----------



## Unraveller

CK82 said:


> Do any of you all run a poly edge on your inverted for residential driveways. We use truck plows currently or skidloader plows and blowers with steel edges and the driveways we service almost all are becoming rust streaked.
> 
> Does an inverted need this in your opinion in? Or does it work?


Normand Inverteds have the option of stainless and poly edges, we have gone with stainless.


----------



## edgeair

I've got a couple of good used inverted blowers for sale. N82 Normand 2.5 seasons on it, excellent condition. Provonost 74" 3 seasons. Both have back blades (hydraulic). Tivar edges on the Normand, original steel edge available. Steel edge on the Provonost. Contact if interested. May also have a N92 Normand with 4 seasons on it in good shape going up for sale.


----------



## CK82

@Unraveller I'd imagi e stainless do not leave rust streaks? How do stainless edges hold up?!?


----------



## snoworks1

Having flashbacks.....nobody local even knew what an inverted blower was......like nobody.....many emails back and forth with Paul......finally packing up and driving to visit Paul in Canada after a 20 hour straight drive through to pick up 2 inverted blowers 1 for me, 1 for Steve......migraine from no water and hours stuck in traffic in Montreal trying to find Pauls shop in the dark......meeting Paul in person for the first time-just about the coolest guy I have ever met......getting a tour of Pauls incredible shop and all the big spots they plow and miles and miles of driveways all with the Vanderzon signs one after another- thousands of them......drive straight back through to get ready for snow...... installing driveway marker signs and getting calls within minutes complaining about the signs......poly edge not scraping good enough.....more phone calls......people crabby about how big the tractor was......more phone calls......people crabby that I didn't do sidewalks even though the contract stated no sidewalks.......more phone calls.......trying to get neighborhoods to all sign up together for tight route density.....flyers.....door hangers.....postcards......wound up just herding cats......yikes. Talk about being the guinea pig around here.......

I am glad the market is strong enough for driveways for some of you. If you can get route density high enough it is a pretty wicked way to bang out driveways. I could easily blow huge driveways in 1-2 minutes and off to the next. If they had been close together I could have done hundreds with each tractor. All in comfort and safety with good visibility.....

Driveways are mediocre at best around here in this market, and we never made any money after two years trying the blower system, but learning about how awesome tractors are for snow, and getting to know Paul-totally priceless.

Thanks Paul for all your help for all of us with tractors and blowers and Metal Pless plows. You are a great help to our entire industry and I think everyone on this thread that has had success in the tractor and/or blower arena would agree. Hope you are enjoying the sun and warm as we all freeze our nuts off each winter!

Dan


Probably the most accurate post of all time!!! Thought I was reading an old post from myself, way back when. Every single thing mentioned in this post, is exactly what I went through 7 years ago!!!!

I still have my Tractor and blower set up, however, for the first time in 28 years, I am changing my business model from seasonal contracts, to per plow seasonal contracts! In my neck of the woods(NW burbs of Chicago), people can't seem to wait 3 hours, let alone 6 hours for service! I was up to about 98 driveways with by Tractor/blower set up, with maybe 10 miles of travel between all driveways, which took between 4 to 6 hours depending on the total snow accumulation.

I wrote a two page letter to all my clients, with examples of snow events, with explanations of timing, planing and execution of said events. In the end, you have to spell out the expectations your setting, otherwise they will expect more! Bottom line(my new slogan), you can't expect budget pricing on service you want right away!!!!

Peace,

Chuck B


----------



## snoworks1

Mark,

What model tractor do you have? I have never had a single issue with my 3 point system, I am running a Kubota M110. 

Here are my pros and cons:

Pros:
-Way more than enough power.
-You can easily plow a standard(3 to 4 cars deep, 2 wide) driveway in under a minute.
-Better turning radius than my Jeep Wrangler set ups!
-Awesome visibility. 
-Comfort
-Auto shift
-Great heat
-24.4 mph - I travel 10 miles to get to my first house each storm.
-This combo works better the deeper the snow gets(cleaner driveways/etc).
-Great advertisement.

Cons:
-Learning curve for large equipment(shear pins, u-joints, etc.)
-Windshield fogging: Every storm it takes time to figure out the right setting to keep windows from fogging(turn a/c with heat, between cold and hot, re-circulate button on, etc.!!!
-If this equipment goes down, you can't just tow it.
-Sheer size of unit(height).
-Cost to get set up correct, after spending 70k for tractor.
-Regen mode!!!! Just a pain in the butt, even though it has a regen while operating button.
-Alternator belt issues. Stock belts seem to be miss matched to pulley size.
-Temperature issues if alternator belt is loose!!!! lol
-Scraping issues in wet/heavy snow(I have tivar on my Normand).

Thats all I can think of for now.

Peace,

Chuck B


----------



## seville009

"snoworks1 said:


> Windshield fogging: Every storm it takes time to figure out the right setting to keep windows from fogging(turn a/c with heat, between cold and hot, re-circulate button on, etc.!!!


I have a skidsteer with a heated cab. Had constant problems with fogging and icing on the inside. Bought the fan in the link below last fall. It stayed tight on the window the whole winter and has a strong enough air stream to keep all my windows clear. Worked perfectly

https://m.tvirdauto.com/Car-air-fan...-for-Van-SUV-RV-Boat-Auto-6_5-inch--p-26.html


----------



## boutch

CK82 said:


> @Unraveller I'd imagi e stainless do not leave rust streaks? How do stainless edges hold up?!?


Correct, Stainless Doesnt leave rust mark. But my experience with it, it wore at lease 2 time faster than a Hardox edge on a 92 pronovost inverted.


----------



## R75419

I just posted my inverted blower and tractor for sale in the for sale thread if anyone is looking for a winter ready unit. It is hands down the best way to do residential snow removal. We just do not have and can’t find the manpower for the sidewalks. Admin remove if this isn’t allowed.


----------



## mnlawns

Just picked up a L6060HST with a normand 82"


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## CAT 245ME

2014 6125R with new Normand N100-310HYB, my JD dealer gave me a very good deal on this 6R, has 2000 hrs one owner (dairy farm), well taken care of plus pre def which is what I was looking for.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> 2014 6125R with new Normand N100-310HYB, my JD dealer gave me a very good deal on this 6R, has 2000 hrs one owner (dairy farm), well taken care of plus pre def which is what I was looking for.
> View attachment 197401


She's purty...


----------



## PTSolutions

We got the px9530 last winter to replace our original dk90 which had 7 years of service with zero issues.

As for our Shoule, we just had to weld over some plate in areas that had started rusting through and re paint. Other than that this setup has been rock solid.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I have a question, for those of you running the Normand Hybrid blowers. Do you find them when running to be very loud?

This weekend was the first time I tried my new N100 HYB and compared to the old 92" Normand inverted (fairly quiet running), the new HYB was VERY loud when running. I checked the gear oil in the blower thinking it might have not been filled but it was. What are your thoughts?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Yes...thought something was hitting, looked all over and couldn't find any shiny steel.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yes...thought something was hitting, looked all over and couldn't find any shiny steel.


Wonder why that is, when I first heard the new blower I thought this might not be very popular in the middle of the night.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> Wonder why that is, when I first heard the new blower I thought this might not be very popular in the middle of the night.


Guess I never paid attention last year. Fired it up this year and wondered what the heck was going on. Even the CFO asked.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> Guess I never paid attention last year. Fired it up this year and wondered what the heck was going on. Even the CFO asked.


Gonna need more grease lol


----------



## BUFF

CAT 245ME said:


> Gonna need more grease lol


What kind.....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> What kind.....


The kind that goes "whoooooooosh"...


----------



## kevinjd

CAT 245ME said:


> I have a question, for those of you running the Normand Hybrid blowers. Do you find them when running to be very loud?
> 
> This weekend was the first time I tried my new N100 HYB and compared to the old 92" Normand inverted (fairly quiet running), the new HYB was VERY loud when running. I checked the gear oil in the blower thinking it might have not been filled but it was. What are your thoughts?


I have the 82" and I don't think it is loud at all, I did grease all fittings and lubed the chain with aerosol chain lube. Actually it runs very smooth.


----------



## kevinjd

I had that steel hitting noise on my Econor 68", the auger was hitting the nuts on the bolt on scraper blade. I had to grind the edges on the nuts and that took care of it. 
Seems like very tight tolerance. 


Mark Oomkes said:


> Yes...thought something was hitting, looked all over and couldn't find any shiny steel.


----------



## Herm Witte

CAT 245ME said:


> I have a question, for those of you running the Normand Hybrid blowers. Do you find them when running to be very loud?
> 
> This weekend was the first time I tried my new N100 HYB and compared to the old 92" Normand inverted (fairly quiet running), the new HYB was VERY loud when running. I checked the gear oil in the blower thinking it might have not been filled but it was. What are your thoughts?


In looking at our inverted blowers I wonder if the "loudness" occurs because the sound gets trapped in the housing much like hollering in a tunnel. The previous standard models are more open allowing the sound to more easily dissipate.


----------



## BUFF

Herm Witte said:


> In looking at our inverted blowers I wonder if the "loudness" occurs because the sound gets trapped in the housing much like hollering in a tunnel. The previous standard models are more open allowing the sound to more easily dissipate.


So kind of like Mark talking indoors verse outdoors...
Works for me.Thumbs Up


----------



## CAT 245ME

Herm Witte said:


> In looking at our inverted blowers I wonder if the "loudness" occurs because the sound gets trapped in the housing much like hollering in a tunnel. The previous standard models are more open allowing the sound to more easily dissipate.


Makes sense in a way. I guess the bigger the blower the louder it will be?


----------



## HadiCoop

I didn’t even know this thread existed until today, 2800 replies is too much reading for me, but I’ve been skimming through this thread all day. Seems like everyone is using inverted blowers.

I’ve been using my old 1500 Silverado as a plow truck for the past couple of years and putting my ariens blower in the back. While that setup worked well for us I know it’s not as efficient as a tractor setup. My buddy runs a business in town and has tractors as well, he’s been in the snow game a lot longer than I have and has been a huge help with our decision on jumping into the residential tractor/blower service. Super excited to say that truck is now for sale and we just purchased a new kubota B2650 with loader and 6’ straight blade on the front as we still have some longer laneways to take care of and a 64” rear blower. I’m thinking about an HLA 6’ straight blade instead of the kubota blade as they are roughly the same price, but the dealer said HLA is about 6-8 weeks out right now.

The dealer said they would loan me a box pusher for the front until the blade came in. Not sure what to do there...any thoughts? I like that the HLA has more of a curve to the blade for better snow rolling and the kubota blade looks to be more of a vertical blade.

I had the option to get an inverted blower for the tractor. I wasn’t aware they were made for this small of a tractor, but my dealer says they do. I was originally thinking of a B3350 as the rear PTO has about another 9hp over the B2650, but I was advised against it by my buddy and the dealer as it has the DEF and they have cold starting problems and supposedly don’t like to heat the cab very well.

I’m completely new to tractors so any advice is much appreciated!


----------



## Landgreen

HadiCoop said:


> I had the option to get an inverted blower for the tractor. I wasn't aware they were made for this small of a tractor, but my dealer says they do. I was originally thinking of a B3350 as the rear PTO has about another 9hp over the B2650, but I was advised against it by my buddy and the dealer as it has the DEF and they have cold starting problems and supposedly don't like to heat the cab very well.


9hp would be 35% more power. That is a significant amount of power you will be missing. With snowblowers the more the better.

If you're serious about residential snowblowing and decide to go to an inverted I recommend getting a much larger tractor. If you read most of this thread you'll notice that 85-100hp is an adequate range.

And you mentioned laneways? And inverted can do that too depending on the length of road. No plow needed.


----------



## HadiCoop

Landgreen said:


> 9hp would be 35% more power. That is a significant amount of power you will be missing. With snowblowers the more the better.
> 
> If you're serious about residential snowblowing and decide to go to an inverted I recommend getting a much larger tractor. If you read most of this thread you'll notice that 85-100hp is an adequate range.
> 
> And you mentioned laneways? And inverted can do that too depending on the length of road. No plow needed.


I wanted the 3350 no doubt for that increase in HP forsure, but even the dealer told me to stay away from them because they're having heat issues.

I'd love a big tractor with more HP and eventually I'll get there...but we all start somewhere right?


----------



## BUFF

HadiCoop said:


> I wanted the 3350 no doubt for that increase in HP forsure, but even the dealer told me to stay away from them because they're having heat issues.
> 
> I'd love a big tractor with more HP and eventually I'll get there...but we all start somewhere right?


If you can start off with the right equipment you're probably better oof not starting.


----------



## Landgreen

HadiCoop said:


> I wanted the 3350 no doubt for that increase in HP forsure, but even the dealer told me to stay away from them because they're having heat issues.
> 
> I'd love a big tractor with more HP and eventually I'll get there...but we all start somewhere right?


This will be my third season with inverted blowers and I wish I could have bought them years ago. Our tractors have quite a bit of travel time and still manage to knock out around 130 drives each in about 6-7 hours. Looking at where you live the drives look straight, short and packed together. I would kill for density like that.


----------



## Landgreen

Your town might be small but getting a inverted blower route would be like shooting fish in a barrel. I would be making plans for next year.


----------



## HadiCoop

Landgreen said:


> This will be my third season with inverted blowers and I wish I could have bought them years ago. Our tractors have quite a bit of travel time and still manage to knock out around 130 drives each in about 6-7 hours. Looking at where you live the drives look straight, short and packed together. I would kill for density like that.


I will eventually get there, I need to be a bit more versatile right now as I have some longer laneways that I need the front blade for. Until I can get more smaller driveways this is the setup I need right now. 
Our town is dense but there's a few bigger players with bigger setups that have been doing it for years...they have a lot of the work. There's also a ton of competition in my area. I plan on pricing very aggressively next year though.

There is a company close by that makes inverted 5' inverted blowers for 20hp tractors. This is something I will look into once I gain more clients.
We also do a lot of landscaping in the summer so we felt like we can possibly use the bucket and forks on some of our jobs. Most jobs we use skidsteers and excavators, but if we can put the tractor to use on a few jobs we think it might help.

anyways, I'll post a picture or 2 next week when we pick it up.


----------



## HadiCoop

Question for you guys that have been doing this for a while now...how do you go about pricing when your trying to get everyone on the same street? I’m sure it has to be really worth it to pick up a lot of new clients fast. I realize I would be able to charge less if there was less travel time.
So how would I go about making it really worth it to the potential clients this time of year especially. We’ve picked up a few already using door hangers and we plan on ordering more and getting them handed out within the next couple of days. Any help on pricing and how to pickup new clients this time of year would be very helpful! 

Lots of rain in the forecast so I feel winter hasn’t even begun yet. Thanks guys, appreciate it


----------



## BLPL

wondering if anyone is running any type of liquid deicing systems on their inverted rigs? We have been experimenting with this set up for 2 seasons and it seems to work well. We have 30 gallon saddle tanks on front loader mount brackets and a 50 wand we can pull out for walks. Obviously you dont do large commercial sites with setup, but for small sites and residential drives, it's pretty handy. We have tried staging totes to refill at offsite locations along route also. Works great on steep residential drives and saves having to dispatch another asset to salt/spray.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Interesting


----------



## Mr.Markus

HadiCoop said:


> Question for you guys that have been doing this for a while now...how do you go about pricing when your trying to get everyone on the same street? I'm sure it has to be really worth it to pick up a lot of new clients fast. I realize I would be able to charge less if there was less travel time.
> So how would I go about making it really worth it to the potential clients this time of year especially. We've picked up a few already using door hangers and we plan on ordering more and getting them handed out within the next couple of days. Any help on pricing and how to pickup new clients this time of year would be very helpful!
> 
> Lots of rain in the forecast so I feel winter hasn't even begun yet. Thanks guys, appreciate it


Im going to stay out if this as i know too many of the guys already involved in this market...that map looks like a great density my brothers house is on it and few if any actually hire out their snow.


----------



## HadiCoop

Mr.Markus said:


> Im going to stay out if this as i know too many of the guys already involved in this market...that map looks like a great density my brothers house is on it and few if any actually hire out their snow.


I have a few in that area. The price has to be right for them to buy. But it's an older neighbourhood anyways and typically they do it themselves. I will be targeting certain neighbourhoods next week in fergus and elora and hopefully we'll pick up a bunch more yet. Here's the new setup...lots to do tomorrow.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> This will be my third season with inverted blowers and I wish I could have bought them years ago. Our tractors have quite a bit of travel time and still manage to knock out around 130 drives each in about 6-7 hours. Looking at where you live the drives look straight, short and packed together. I would kill for density like that.


When I traded my 6105D for the 6115M, the faster road speed with the 24 speed powerquad was a big help, my driveways are spread out as well but the 6115M with the new Normand N100 HYB did 160 drives in about 6 hours. One challenge I had to face with building a couple blower routes was the fact that 80 percent of the homes had there own snow blower. So with that, prices had to be reasonable in order to get them to come aboard. And it has been a challenge since starting in 2015


----------



## Landgreen

CAT 245ME said:


> One challenge I had to face with building a couple blower routes was the fact that 80 percent of the homes had there own snow blower. So with that, prices had to be reasonable in order to get them to come aboard. And it has been a challenge since starting in 2015


There are times when I cringe knowing that my price is lower than the competition and I'm sure they think I'm a lowballer. But then I look at production of the tractors where the drives are tight together and confirm the marketing and pricing works in my favor. A comparison I make is condo complexes vs average homeowner driveways. What we charge per drive in condo complexes is half that of a typical driveway yet the hourly production rate is nearly double at condos since there is no road time. As we get more and more drives in a subdivision the density is more like a condo complex yet we are charging more than twice the amount.

One of my operators was gone yesterday so I ran his route. First time I did an entire tractor route. Road time is a killer. The first 8 or so drives are relatively far apart (and I had a hell of a time finding three of them in the dark) so looking at the rest of the route I figured I might be in the tractor for an eternity. Once I got into the denser areas the list went really quick.


----------



## White_Gold11

Question for the guys running Normand hybrid. Do you add an additional thicker blade below the standard cutting edge? Like a 1/2 Hardox blade in addition/below. I hate the idea of possibly wearing into housing. On all of our other blowers we do this. I guess I haven’t laid down on the floor to analyze if this would even work with the advanced skid shoes. Let me know if you do anything on yours. Ran our first run last night with a 6060/82hybrid and killed it. And broke the top three point link so I guess literally killed at the end


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## kevinjd

Did you break the blower link or the tractor link?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Flipped our edge around this fall, was worn at the corners. Adjusted the shoes. 

Full season last year. Will have to watch it closer this year as it will be on the ground much more than last year.


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## White_Gold11

Adjustable tractor link I believe it’s called. Anyone ever use something else like a coil over shock? Then when you hit a crack or bump you would have a absorber in a sense. Or I will just buy a beefed up Adjustable link


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## boutch

White_Gold11 said:


> Adjustable tractor link I believe it's called. Anyone ever use something else like a coil over shock? Then when you hit a crack or bump you would have a absorber in a sense. Or I will just buy a beefed up Adjustable link


Do you have any pictures of the damages.

You need an accumulator on the 3 point. I have one and it made a huge difference.


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## White_Gold11

We have accumulator on the machine. We will do the run through on Monday. Might not be working properly.. we just got machine and it came on it.


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## White_Gold11

Turns out accumulator was turned off.. wow our roads don’t like inverted blowers I guess day 1 snap top link. It should be fine now I imagine.


----------



## boutch

White_Gold11 said:


> Turns out accumulator was turned off.. wow our roads don't like inverted blowers I guess day 1 snap top link. It should be fine now I imagine.


Wow. Hopefully the charge is good in it too. I got my flow controller open about 2.5 turn. Opened to much and it continuously bounces


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## Landgreen

Anyone using gps in their tractors? If so what brand? 

I have it in my trucks but is only for obd vehicle port.


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## Herm Witte

Landgreen said:


> Anyone using gps in their tractors? If so what brand?
> 
> I have it in my trucks but is only for obd vehicle port.


Just in our salt trucks


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## HadiCoop

Landgreen said:


> Anyone using gps in their tractors? If so what brand?
> 
> I have it in my trucks but is only for obd vehicle port.


what do you plan on using it for land green? 
I was thinking about mounting my garmin Oregon 450 in the cab to see all the stats for my route.


----------



## Landgreen

HadiCoop said:


> what do you plan on using it for land green?
> I was thinking about mounting my garmin Oregon 450 in the cab to see all the stats for my route.


I have Hum from Verizon for our trucks. I really like it so far. I can find where every truck is at a glance. I know when they start, finish and how long it took. Also reads obd info like battery voltage etc.

It was inexpensive. I think $5/ truck/month?


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## Landgreen

This screenshot is from today for one of our trucks. Had to go back out after plowing and salt so ended being a long run.


----------



## DeVries

https://www.geotab.com/

Been really happy with this system. Can be installed in any machine.


----------



## HadiCoop

Does anybody know where to buy rear fenders for a B2650? Side doors and rear windows are getting caked when it’s sloppy on the roads.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I was looking over the early part of this thread and realized that this was started 10 years ago this fall.

I though it would be interesting to see how things have gone for each one of us since starting in the tractor/blower service. Also looking back what would you have done differently. Not too mention those who decided it wasn't for them and why.

As for myself, I started in 2015 (so this is my 5th season). I purchased a 7 month month old JD 6105D with a new Normand 92" inverted. With help from Paul Vanderzon in getting the driveway advertising markers I started out the first season with 13 driveways!!! lol maybe an unlucky number. Most of them were already clients that were plowed out for years with my plow truck. I expected things to pickup somewhat but the phone didn't ring. My area was 100% new to this and being the only one offering driveway snow removal people just weren't interested. After all about 80% of homes already had a walk behind snow blower and that didn't help matters.

After the second season I managed to end that winter with 30 driveways, I expected a lot more but it wasn't to be. The driveway markers people just didn't pay attention to them, when I did pick up new clients it was always word of mouth and at the same time I noticed some driveways that home owners were clearing themselves and then over time they hired someone to do it and even with the advertising markers they never bothered to call. Even those who were right beside a driveway I was clearing.

By the end of the third season I was over 60 drives but had become spread out more than I wanted, the tractor I had was slow road speed and I didn't have close to enough to take on a second unit so I traded the 6D for a 6115M with 600 hours and a 24 speed transmission.

Going into last season things started to pick up more, I had managed to move up to 100 driveways and with a fairly snowy winter I ended the season with about 120 driveways, which I about doubled in a year. I had one street that I was able to get up to about 20 driveways on and that area was taking notice of the advertising markers. The faster road speed of the 6115M was a big plus and turned out to be worth the extra money.

Going into this winter I decided to invest into a new Normand Hybrid N100 blower, that blower alone has been a game changer compared to the old Normand 92". On top of that I started the season with a second tractor that was around 2300 hours, but have since traded it for a low hour 6125M with warranty.

So after 5 years I finally have one tractor with a route of 150 driveways that takes 5 hours to run.

And the second unit route with the old Normand is only over 30 driveways, but I hope over the next year or two I'll have that one close to what the other is doing.

But I have to say that I'm proud of how far I've come with it even though in the first three winters it was looking like a waste of time. One thing I did near the end of last season once I was around 120 driveways with my old pull blower was taking off the rear back blade. The time I saved NOT having that anymore was eye opening. I've come to learn why Neige as well as other large snow removal companies do not use them. They do slow you down and at the same time I noticed even with the back blade many clients were pushing the snow away from the garage doors so the back blade wasn't missed.

One thing I've since learned is that most of my clients I have came from word of mouth and my Facebook business page. Most have told me that when the first saw the markers that they felt it would be too expensive so they never bothered looking into it.

Now, the downside of all this. I started 5 years ago and I was the only one in my service area. As of this winter there is about 8 to 10 compact tractors that I compete with, all individually owned. I have had some clients get approached by one fella that offers to do them for cash as where I'm seasonal contract. When I meet him on the road he smiles and waves. I've come to realize that the small compact tractors have become the new plow truck. It is what it is, and I'm sure that Neige will agree that the cash operators are gonna hurt business.

As far as where I want this to go, I don't want it to be more than what I have right now equipment wise. My goal at the beginning was to have two tractor/blower setups. And I have that now, with just wanting to add a second Normand Hybrid.

The reason for not wanting it becoming bigger than it is, I'll be 40 in March, single no kids and in the end no one to take it over when I want to get out of it. I've been moving snow now for 20 years and really do not want to still be doing it 20 years from now. I see many guys that I know very well that have a lot more years in than me doing commercial and they clearly do not enjoy it anymore.

My fleet.














Whose next to tell their experience LOL


----------



## Kinport

Very insightful, thank you for posting. Interested in hearing every bodies experiences.


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## HadiCoop

That was very inspirational. 150 drives? Must be a dense route and a lot of horsepower! I’ve been doing snow removal for about 4-5yrs now with a plow truck, and recently just switched to a small compact tractor blowing service. I only had about 12 clients with the truck and the route was so spread out it took forever to do and it did a crappy job compared to this new tractor. I’m also new to tractors.

I dropped about 8 of those clients as they were in another town and it just wouldn’t be possible to service them with the tractor. I then gained back the 8 clients I had to drop plus an additional 12 so it puts the client list up to 24 for this year. On average It takes me about 3hrs to do my route and the clients are still spread out and not as dense as I would like. Next year I plan to at least double the client list and make the route more dense.

I will most likely be maxed out with my current setup at 50-60 clients. Then, the following year I plan on upgrading to a larger tractor that can handle double the clients again. So 100-120 is my goal in the next 2 years which should be attainable. There is a ton of competition in our area from plow trucks, tractors, and guys driving around on their lawn tractors or towing them around. Having said that, I got a lot of clients this year that weren’t happy with their previous guy.

I also have a FB & IG page, people very rarely go to websites anymore. People usually just use social media, and it works! Word of mouth is also very good for us. I love the snow and I always have, and I believe you have to love it if you want to keep doing it. There’s nothing better than being out in the middle of the night in a snow storm when everyone is sleeping, it’s daytime runs that can suck and make me lose my patience very quickly. But I still enjoy it. This winter has sucked for snow here, it’s good because you still get paid but does it ever make for a long winter!

I wish I had made the switch to a tractor sooner.


----------



## CAT 245ME

HadiCoop said:


> That was very inspirational. 150 drives? Must be a dense route and a lot of horsepower!


The route is not dense, to give you an idea Neige's tractors if I remember right service 150 drives in a 4 hour period and that is spread over 10 streets. So the tractor he uses have a top speed of 30 kilometers (we are Canadian remember lol) so he doesn't need one with a faster road speed.

As for me, the 150 drives are spread out over about 25 streets. There is no way I could do this with a slower machine, my 6M's will get up to 43 kilometers an hour (26-27 mph), also the new 100" blower vs the old 92" is also a big factor. With the old 92" at the end of last season I was doing 120 drives in that same 5 hour time frame. The wider blower as well as being a Normand Hybrid was able to cut down the number of passes I was making on several drives, so I had some drives I was having to make 3 passes with the old 92" now with the 100" I only had to make two on top of that the new Hybrid left almost nothing on the street where the old one still had a fair amount that wasn't reaching the impeller.

The 6105D I had was just a bigger version of a 5E, same control layout. I hated the twin stick setup, in a pretty tight route it wouldn't have been bad but compared to the 24 speed powerquad there is no comparison.

The powerquad has a clutch button at the top, just need to clutch going through the ranges as for the gears it's push button 1 to 4 no clutching.














Take note how spread out everything is on the 5E and 6E vs the 6M 24 speed powerquad. For what Deere wants for a new 5100E I'll take a used 6M or 6R instead no question. But that's just me.


----------



## Herm Witte

Much like CAT 245ME we started with our first inverted blower 10 years ago. Both JD Dave and Paul Vanderzon were instrumental in our move to tractors and inverted blowers. Thank you to you both.

Our growth has largely been word of mouth and we are up to four full routes and two smaller routes. We have turned away numerous inquiries due to our lack of personnel.

Route density is always a work in progress made difficult by numerous truck plow operators and the resultant pricing structure. Another issue that stymies our growth is a lack of competent operators or even those willing to learn and be dependable at the same time.

The inverted hybrids have been a wonderful addition to our equipment line up for residential work.

Over the years we have worked towards maintaining a diverse client base. Residential work helps us achieve that goal.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Herm Witte said:


> Another issue that stymies our growth is a lack of competent operators or even those willing to learn and be dependable at the same time.


I forgot to mention that as well, and that alone is very much the hardest part of this. I struggled to find someone for my second tractor, even with my job operating heavy equipment and knowing lots of operators, none of them were interested in doing it even though it paid well. It's pretty much that alone as to why I decided to only want to have two machines. It seems with the more you have the more headaches that come with it.


----------



## Landgreen

This is the third year for our tractor/blower service. It has been going pretty well so far. We have two JD tractors and routes are full. Gaining customers has not been difficult. We use targeted mailers and yardsigns. The combination is effective. 

I've had very good luck with operators. They both work on farms in the summer. Both know more about tractors than I do and can operate them better as well. For the next operator I'm not gonna bother with advertising but call local farms to see if anyone is available.

There is competition from other companies with snowblowers but they are the typical compact with front mount with rear backblade. I'm sure there will be other companies that will start using inverse style at some point. I'd like to sell my old style normands for the new style but I won't be advertising them here in TC.


----------



## HadiCoop

CAT 245ME said:


> The route is not dense, to give you an idea Neige's tractors if I remember right service 150 drives in a 4 hour period and that is spread over 10 streets. So the tractor he uses have a top speed of 30 kilometers (we are Canadian remember lol) so he doesn't need one with a faster road speed.
> 
> As for me, the 150 drives are spread out over about 25 streets. There is no way I could do this with a slower machine, my 6M's will get up to 43 kilometers an hour (26-27 mph), also the new 100" blower vs the old 92" is also a big factor. With the old 92" at the end of last season I was doing 120 drives in that same 5 hour time frame. The wider blower as well as being a Normand Hybrid was able to cut down the number of passes I was making on several drives, so I had some drives I was having to make 3 passes with the old 92" now with the 100" I only had to make two on top of that the new Hybrid left almost nothing on the street where the old one still had a fair amount that wasn't reaching the impeller.
> 
> The 6105D I had was just a bigger version of a 5E, same control layout. I hated the twin stick setup, in a pretty tight route it wouldn't have been bad but compared to the 24 speed powerquad there is no comparison.
> 
> The powerquad has a clutch button at the top, just need to clutch going through the ranges as for the gears it's push button 1 to 4 no clutching.
> View attachment 200535
> View attachment 200536
> 
> 
> Take note how spread out everything is on the 5E and 6E vs the 6M 24 speed powerquad. For what Deere wants for a new 5100E I'll take a used 6M or 6R instead no question. But that's just me.
> 
> View attachment 200537


my route is spread out over 21 streets, at least one on each street and 2 on 3 streets. And my tractor only does 19km/hr. It's a slow ride between each house. Once I get a bigger tractor, it will be much nicer.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> There is competition from other companies with snowblowers but they are the typical compact with front mount with rear backblade. I'm sure there will be other companies that will start using inverse style at some point. I'd like to sell my old style normands for the new style but I won't be advertising them here in TC.


Your area sounds very similar to the area I service. I deal with the same type of competition, but I am the only one that runs big tractors with inverted's. I don't blame you if you advertise your old blowers in another area instead of locally, at the end of the day you are helping those who will be after your clients. As I mentioned before, once I started marking driveways with advertising markers I ended up having some clients approached by those with small compacts offering to do them for cash.

The new Normand's are taller than the old and you have to pay close attention backing in to not hit the eave of the house







. But I'm sure your operators would like the old blowers a lot more without the rear blade. I will never put another one on my old 92" inverted again.


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## Mark Oomkes

Our hybrid scrapes soooooooo much better than the old ones. I'd be tempted to rob a bank to replace my other ones.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> Our hybrid scrapes soooooooo much better than the old ones. I'd be tempted to rob a bank to replace my other ones.


How much does a new 92" Hybrid sell for in the states Mark?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> How much does a new 92" Hybrid sell for in the states Mark?


I don't remember. Really need to upgrade another one.


----------



## mnlawns

UPDATE:

So... i had a l6060 on lease and ended up returning it early because of its multitude of problems and how inefficient it was.

I am still interested in the tractor setups, but you need one with 25MPH+ ground speed.


----------



## White_Gold11

mnlawns said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> So... i had a l6060 on lease and ended up returning it early because of its multitude of problems and how inefficient it was.
> 
> I am still interested in the tractor setups, but you need one with 25MPH+ ground speed.


What problems were you experiencing?

I think the l6060 does decent for drive time/speed.. but I have a dense route.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

mnlawns said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> So... i had a l6060 on lease and ended up returning it early because of its multitude of problems and how inefficient it was.
> 
> I am still interested in the tractor setups, but you need one with 25MPH+ ground speed.


Lots of contractors out there using slower that would disagree...

I've had many a time that I couldn't go nearly that fast, no matter how much I wanted. Just too icy and not enough traction. Anything over third gear and I lost steerage. I've upgraded to Nokians on the front, not sure how much that helped, but it couldn't hurt.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Lots of contractors out there using slower that would disagree...
> 
> I've had many a time that I couldn't go nearly that fast, no matter how much I wanted. Just too icy and not enough traction. Anything over third gear and I lost steerage. I've upgraded to Nokians on the front, not sure how much that helped, but it couldn't hurt.


You get to bouncing pretty good mulch over 20mph, then there's the stopping thing when a non observation driver pulls oot or turns if front of ewe.....


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> You get to bouncing pretty good mulch over 20mph, then there's the stopping thing when a non observation driver pulls oot or turns if front of ewe.....


The R1\R4 tyres they come standard with are like ice skates on icy roads...just that little bit of tread in contact with the ice. Being a wooden shoe wearererer I waited until the fronts were worn down quite a ways before replacement.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> The R1\R4 tyres they come standard with are like ice skates on icy roads...just that little bit of tread in contact with the ice. Being a wooden shoe wearererer I waited until the fronts were worn down quite a ways before replacement.


Occasionally the wardens grandpa will have me run the JD 8130 (with rear duals) with the bale feeder. There's one pasture that's aboot 9-10miles away and there's a piece of road aboot 3/4mile long that never sees sun in the winter and has several sharp corners. Once the front end goes it gets pretty western quick.


----------



## Hydromaster

BUFF said:


> You get to bouncing pretty good mulch over 20mph, QUOTE]


That's wear the time spent in a bouncy house
Comes in.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I thought this would be a good question,

Do you have any operators that miss driveways and end up not getting done?


----------



## WMHLC

A little rant. I want to yell at everyone that plows driveways with a truck and leaves spills and small windrows. Some of the sub divisions it was like a motocross track driving thru the whoops section. Amazing how clean a blower is.


----------



## BUFF

WMHLC said:


> A little rant. I want to yell at everyone that plows driveways with a truck and leaves spills and small windrows. Some of the sub divisions it was like a motocross track driving thru the whoops section. Amazing how clean a blower is.


Are those plow trucks dark green?


----------



## WMHLC

CAT 245ME said:


> I thought this would be a good question,
> 
> Do you have any operators that miss driveways and end up not getting done?


I plow for Mark, so I don't leave any spills.


----------



## BUFF

WMHLC said:


> I plow for Mark, so I don't leave any spills.


Mark who....:laugh:


----------



## Mark Oomkes

WMHLC said:


> A little rant. I want to yell at everyone that plows driveways with a truck and leaves spills and small windrows. Some of the sub divisions it was like a motocross track driving thru the whoops section. Amazing how clean a blower is.


Is it Meadowgreen?

We talked to Carl, he assured us his people weren't doing it.


----------



## BossPlow2010

WMHLC said:


> A little rant. I want to yell at everyone that plows driveways with a truck and leaves spills and small windrows. Some of the sub divisions it was like a motocross track driving thru the whoops section. Amazing how clean a blower is.


Seen a badass truck/ blower on Facebook yesterday, not practical for driveways, but it could be used in certain applications


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> Seen a badass truck/ blower on Facebook yesterday, not practical for driveways, but it could be used in certain applications
> View attachment 200942


Phile foto....from a year or two ago.


----------



## WMHLC

BUFF said:


> Are those plow trucks dark green?





Mark Oomkes said:


> Is it Meadowgreen?
> 
> We talked to Carl, he assured us his people weren't doing it.


I'm not sure, it wasn't in a sub we plow the roads on. It was in that sub division by Sturbridge, it was insane. Mainly that company that uses PVC markers and the guy that uses wooden stakes I think Carl only uses the green stakes


----------



## Mark Oomkes

WMHLC said:


> I'm not sure, it wasn't in a sub we plow the roads on. It was in that sub division by Sturbridge, it was insane. Mainly that company that uses PVC markers and the guy that uses wooden stakes I think Carl only uses the green stakes


Gotcha...I had the same thing on Forest Bend/Glen. Whoever was plowing in the area was making a mess. I cleaned up my messes.


----------



## Herm Witte

WMHLC said:


> A little rant. I want to yell at everyone that plows driveways with a truck and leaves spills and small windrows. Some of the sub divisions it was like a motocross track driving thru the whoops section. Amazing how clean a blower is.


Agreed


----------



## DeVries

Wooden stakes?

Must be a Dutchman


----------



## fireball

If the wooden stakes are painted black then they are Amish


----------



## m_ice

Hypothetically if route density was no object and you went out 2-5 times per year would you...
1. Run an Ebling you already own?
2. Buy a new tractor and set it up with a inverted?

We currently do it with an Ebling now
If we went out more frequently it would be a no brainer


----------



## Mark Oomkes

m_ice said:


> Hypothetically if route density was no object and you went out 2-5 times per year would you...
> 1. Run an Ebling you already own?
> 2. Buy a new tractor and set it up with a inverted?
> 
> We currently do it with an Ebling now
> If we went out more frequently it would be a no brainer


Do you have another use for the tractor?

Can you cover the cost of a tractor/blower?


----------



## m_ice

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do you have another use for the tractor?
> 
> Can you cover the cost of a tractor/blower?


We already own 1 tractor, the new 1 would sit in the summer
If I went FEL and added some commercial to the blower route on the front side it starts to make a little more sense economically. The drives are not tier 1 priority so a 3 hour delay to squeeze some commercial sites in would be ok.


----------



## HadiCoop

I’ve been noticing lately as I’m doing my route other companies in general just aren’t getting a good scrape on their residential properties. I keep a very close eye on what my competition is doing and their quality of work. 

With the wet heavy snow we’ve been getting lately the guys with the inverted blowers aren’t getting a good scrape and some plow guys aren’t either. The plows guys I’m sure have always had this problem with back dragging unless they have good down pressure.


----------



## HadiCoop

Well, that sucked. Was just editing and then said my time limit of 20 minutes had expired and lost all my content...effin sweet


----------



## HadiCoop




----------



## HadiCoop

HadiCoop said:


>


I've been thinking about this for next year


----------



## Landgreen

m_ice said:


> We already own 1 tractor, the new 1 would sit in the summer
> If I went FEL and added some commercial to the blower route on the front side it starts to make a little more sense economically. The drives are not tier 1 priority so a 3 hour delay to squeeze some commercial sites in would be ok.


I assume push box on the FEL? Keep in mind that needs to come off before beginning residentials so make sure last lot is near your shop or you have a spot you can drop it and pick it up after its route. I would include plowing commercial lots only if you have to. I've found that a tractor and pushbox isnt nearly as productive as expected. We still have our 5085 Deere plow one lot then it's off to it's resi route. Last year it was plowing four parking lots. The hourly production is very poor compared to snowblowing drives. I could plow same lots with my truck almost as quick on lighter snowfalls. You could forget the FEL and get a 10' V and not have to drop it off before route but still not getting the productivity of drives.

If you go tractor/blower route then go balls deep into advertising and get a full route for it. It will be worth it.


----------



## HadiCoop

I’ll try to remember everything I had written down, copy n paste from notes this time. 


From where I left off, I’m thinking about upgrading to a bigger tractor next year as some of you know I have a compact B2650 tractor that really does work well, but I’m limited to how many properties I can take on with it. 


I’ve been looking at the new MX line of kubota tractors as they are the “affordable” tractor. A new MX 63hp tractor is $48k and the L6060 which also around the same HP & PTO HP is $62k new. The MX also has a top speed of 28.5 which is 1.5 km/hr fast than the L series tractor. If I can get the work to justify a larger tractor, I’m think the new MX tractor would be the way to go. 


Been looking at Cotech & Jules Roberge extendable box scrapers for backdragging and pushing snow if needed. These range anywhere from $7,500-$12,000 depending on make and model. 


I love the inverted blower idea, but I’m afraid of a poor quality scrape with the wet snow conditions. My question is, are there down pressure kits for inverted blowers, and is there a noticeable difference in quality? 


I also like the idea of being able to scrape from 6’-10’ or even 7’-12’ depending on the property. I have so many different sizes and shapes of driveways I think it would be a very versatile setup to be able to push & stack, back drag & be able to use the blower as well.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

HadiCoop said:


> My question is, are there down pressure kits for inverted blowers,


You can put a hydraulic back blade on them, but according to Paul they greatly reduce efficiency.

As I mentioned above, our Normand Hybrid scrapes infinitely better than our older "standard" models.

Even with downpressure on back blades, we are not getting a completely clean scrape with the current snow types.

Surprisingly, we haven't had any complaints this year about hardpack being left. We have in the past generally up until there is frost in the ground and the blowers start scraping better. Maybe because it melts within a couple days. lol

Ironically, I was looking at the MetalPless website today and saw the Extend Maxx can be purchased with a LiveEdge. Seems like a better option than an Ebling for a tractor, especially because of the LiveEdge.


----------



## HadiCoop

This the scrape I'm getting with my straight blade.


----------



## m_ice

Landgreen said:


> I assume push box on the FEL? Keep in mind that needs to come off before beginning residentials so make sure last lot is near your shop or you have a spot you can drop it and pick it up after its route. I would include plowing commercial lots only if you have to. I've found that a tractor and pushbox isnt nearly as productive as expected. We still have our 5085 Deere plow one lot then it's off to it's resi route. Last year it was plowing four parking lots. The hourly production is very poor compared to snowblowing drives. I could plow same lots with my truck almost as quick on lighter snowfalls. You could forget the FEL and get a 10' V and not have to drop it off before route but still not getting the productivity of drives.
> 
> If you go tractor/blower route then go balls deep into advertising and get a full route for it. It will be worth it.


I thought about the marketing other drives but came up with a couple of hurdles. First, residential snow removal is almost no existent in out area. All our drives we do are part of 55 and up communities where we have to do the roads as well. So we need something on the front or a truck to come in and help. And second, all the commercial is within a mile and it's not a full route. 
However, I like the idea of a v plow on the front and skipping the push box. Then it could do commercial accounts, residential roadway, and driveways in on machine.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

HadiCoop said:


> This the scrape I'm getting with my straight blade.
> View attachment 200989


That's better than they were getting in that video you posted. You don't get downpressure other than gravity with a 3 point. And like I said, even with the downpressure on Eblings we're not getting a clean scrape.

Add in getting wider whether it be with what you posted or an Ebling, and unevenness in the pavement is going make the scrape even worse. The only way to overcome that is with a LiveEdge\Arctic sectional type plow.

No idea what the Extend Maxx costs. I would look at one of those before I bought another Ebling for a tractor.


----------



## HadiCoop

Mark Oomkes said:


> You can put a hydraulic back blade on them, but according to Paul they greatly reduce efficiency.
> 
> As I mentioned above, our Normand Hybrid scrapes infinitely better than our older "standard" models.
> 
> Even with downpressure on back blades, we are not getting a completely clean scrape with the current snow types.
> 
> Surprisingly, we haven't had any complaints this year about hardpack being left. We have in the past generally up until there is frost in the ground and the blowers start scraping better. Maybe because it melts within a couple days. lol
> 
> Ironically, I was looking at the MetalPless website today and saw the Extend Maxx can be purchased with a LiveEdge. Seems like a better option than an Ebling for a tractor, especially because of the LiveEdge.


what cutting edge do you have on your hybrid? I actually demoed a 6060 with a Cotech today but not enough seat time, not enough snow to play with and a gravel laneway that's ice so I couldn't really tell if the scrape was good or not. It had a hard rubber compound for a cutting edge. It was almost 2" thick.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

HadiCoop said:


> what cutting edge do you have on your hybrid?


I believe it's Hardox.


----------



## HadiCoop

Mark Oomkes said:


> That's better than they were getting in that video you posted. You don't get downpressure other than gravity with a 3 point. And like I said, even with the downpressure on Eblings we're not getting a clean scrape.
> 
> Add in getting wider whether it be with what you posted or an Ebling, and unevenness in the pavement is going make the scrape even worse. The only way to overcome that is with a LiveEdge\Arctic sectional type plow.
> 
> No idea what the Extend Maxx costs. I would look at one of those before I bought another Ebling for a tractor.


 Both Cotech & that JRTX have down pressure. I'm not sure why it's not getting a good scrape in that video. My only guess would be because it's in float mode.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

HadiCoop said:


> Both Cotech & that JRTX have down pressure. I'm not sure why it's not getting a good scrape in that video. My only guess would be because it's in float mode.


Yeah, I was referring to anything on the 3 point.


----------



## HadiCoop

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yeah, I was referring to anything on the 3 point.


So there's no down pressure kit for inverted blowers other than that back blade?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

HadiCoop said:


> So there's no down pressure kit for inverted blowers other than that back blade?


None that I know of.


----------



## DeVries

HadiCoop said:


> So there's no down pressure kit for inverted blowers other than that back blade?


I have a Case 570 MXT that has down pressure on the 3pt hitch. It will almost lift the tires of the ground. These units come with a pto as well, just not sure of the hp at the pto compared to a tractor.

Found this info

http://burlingtoninstallation.com/pdf/pto_description.pdf


----------



## Mark Oomkes

DeVries said:


> I have a Case 570 MXT that has down pressure on the 3pt hitch. It will almost lift the tires of the ground. These units come with a pto as well, just not sure of the hp at the pto compared to a tractor.
> 
> Found this info
> 
> http://burlingtoninstallation.com/pdf/pto_description.pdf


Oops, my JCB 212 had down pressure. I was only thinking about ag tractors.


----------



## HadiCoop

Has anyone tried adding weight to their blower to get a better scrape?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Last thing I would do...they bounce too much already.


----------



## m_ice

Mark Oomkes said:


> Last thing I would do...they bounce too much already.


Aren't most using accumulators for this exact reason?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

m_ice said:


> Aren't most using accumulators for this exact reason?


Yes


----------



## CAT 245ME

HadiCoop said:


> I've been thinking about this for next year


There are large companies that do residential this way in Quebec. I can understand why, some concepts are just a better fit for certain areas.


----------



## Landgreen

HadiCoop said:


> Has anyone tried adding weight to their blower to get a better scrape?


No way. I think the old style Norman blowers I use are close to a ton? I've found they scrape just fine. We're also used to hardpack accumulating on drives after several snowfalls. Customer expectations vary. Those living in low snow areas probably have less tolerance for hardpack buildup.


----------



## Landgreen

CAT 245ME said:


> There are large companies that do residential this way in Quebec. I can understand why, some concepts are just a better fit for certain areas.


That fleet is bonkers. But I don't see the advantage of the front blade/rear facing blower. With the new style Normands there's no need for a cleanup pass. Also in deep snows I'm guessing that front blade is going to get full and leave crumbs resulting in addition passes. I get that the front blade might scrape better with down pressure but didnt really see it happening in the vid posted by Hadicoop.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> That fleet is bonkers. But I don't see the advantage of the front blade/rear facing blower. With the new style Normands there's no need for a cleanup pass. Also in deep snows I'm guessing that front blade is going to get full and leave crumbs resulting in addition passes. I get that the front blade might scrape better with down pressure but didnt really see it happening in the vid posted by Hadicoop.


That's nothing, check this one out.Notice that not one of those pull blowers have a rear scraper blade on them.


----------



## EWSplow

CAT 245ME said:


> That's nothing, check this one out.Notice that not one of those pull blowers have a rear scraper blade on them.
> View attachment 200997
> View attachment 200997
> View attachment 200998


Where's that? Looks like a seen from braveheart or game of thrones.


----------



## Landgreen

CAT 245ME said:


> That's nothing, check this one out.Notice that not one of those pull blowers have a rear scraper blade on them.
> View attachment 200997
> View attachment 200997
> View attachment 200998


"Should we buy NH or Deere? Ok.... I guess we'll buy both."


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> "Should we buy NH or Deere? Ok.... I guess we'll buy both."


1 NH is too many.


----------



## CAT 245ME

EWSplow said:


> Where's that? Looks like a seen from braveheart or game of thrones.


https://www.lesjardinsdebrossard.com/en/winter-services/residential-snow-removal/


----------



## EWSplow

Landgreen said:


> "Should we buy NH or Deere? Ok.... I guess we'll buy both."


What are the red ones, case IH?


----------



## BUFF

EWSplow said:


> What are the red ones, case IH?


Wood say yes.


----------



## DeVries

Blue , Red underneath they are all the same.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

DeVries said:


> Blue , Red underneath they are all the same.


But not Oomkes green...


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> 1 NH is too many.


I thought you were running one this winter? Or fixing one apparently?


----------



## HadiCoop

Landgreen said:


> That fleet is bonkers. But I don't see the advantage of the front blade/rear facing blower. With the new style Normands there's no need for a cleanup pass. Also in deep snows I'm guessing that front blade is going to get full and leave crumbs resulting in addition passes. I get that the front blade might scrape better with down pressure but didnt really see it happening in the vid posted by Hadicoop.


the advantages I see with the extendable blades are being able to extend them up to 10' or even 12' resulting in less passes depending on model and you get down pressure. In the video I posted you can clearly see he's running that blade in float mode. If he used down pressure he might have gotten a better scrape. But, with the amount of snow on those clients front lawns, I'd say they've been getting a ton of snow and a bit of build up on the driveway is going to happen. They also might be gravel driveways. My gravel driveways are white on purpose, but asphalt I wanna see black!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> I thought you were running one this winter? Or fixing one apparently?


Yes...

Stalling\losing power over 2000 RPMs the other night. Stealer says fuel filters need to be changed religiously every 50 hours on them, up until 500 hours.

Going to try talking my Deere dealer into a winter lease or rental program. I haven't had this many issues combined with my Deeres.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

HadiCoop said:


> the advantages I see with the extendable blades are being able to extend them up to 10' or even 12' resulting in less passes depending on model and you get down pressure.


You need to remember that as soon as you do that, you reduce scraping ability unless you're running a LiveEdge\Arctic Sectional type plow.

You are not going to see the same scraping from a 10-12' plow as you will your 6' plow. It just isn't going to happen no matter how hard you wish it will. Down pressure or not. You can't change physics.

I see one advantage of using traditional blowers if you somewhat regularly get very heavy snowfalls or wind where the inverted would take some extra work to clear a drive. With a traditional you could blow your way in, then use the plow to pull the rest away. But for 99% of what we see, an inverted is the most efficient.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yes...
> 
> Stalling\losing power over 2000 RPMs the other night. Stealer says fuel filters need to be changed religiously every 50 hours on them, up until 500 hours.
> 
> Going to try talking my Deere dealer into a winter lease or rental program. I haven't had this many issues combined with my Deeres.


Do you look into low hour used tractors vs new?

I have a Kubota dealer about 20 min away, but I drive over an hour to my JD dealer for a reason. I would have Kubota but the dealer doesn't impress me. One of my competitors that has a Kubota compact purchased a 4R Deere last fall, prefers it much more than the Kubota. He paid more but felt it's a better built tractor.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> Do you look into low hour used tractors vs new?
> 
> I have a Kubota dealer about 20 min away, but I drive over an hour to my JD dealer for a reason. I would have Kubota but the dealer doesn't impress me. One of my competitors that has a Kubota compact purchased a 4R Deere last fall, prefers it much more than the Kubota. He paid more but felt it's a better built tractor.


It was sort of a last minute thing. We had been renting a tractor and operator from a farmer, he was "wooed" by the competition...more than I could afford to pay him, etc. (As an aside, he hated working for them in the past because they nickeled and dimed him for everything.)

So we were in somewhat of a bind, needed one fairly quick. Also weren't sure we were going to run that route due to operator availability.

Anyways, the NH dealer does the same thing as our Bobcat and Deere dealer...5 months of larger payments and 7 months of low or no payments. After 3 years, the machine is turned back in. Sounded great as it has worked well for me with my skidsteer and 244. But they aren't blue. I really don't need or want to own more tractors, already have too many sitting around in the summer so that was the other reason I thought it would work.

Kinda funny, everyone liked it at first...better road speed, cab is a bit nicer, etc. I ran it a couple times for a few hours each and hate it. Could care less about the road speed as it has less PTO HP than a comparable Deere, I can get used to the less than top of the line cab design of the Deere E Series, etc. Now that others have run it, they don't like it either.

Reading your posts about a larger tractor and 100" blower makes me wonder though. We do have some height limitations but I might just look into a 6 Series down the road.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> Do you look into low hour used tractors vs new?
> 
> I have a Kubota dealer about 20 min away, but I drive over an hour to my JD dealer for a reason. I would have Kubota but the dealer doesn't impress me. One of my competitors that has a Kubota compact purchased a 4R Deere last fall, prefers it much more than the Kubota. He paid more but felt it's a better built tractor.


What's the width of your 6115?

I'm not finding it online, probably due to all the possible configurations.


----------



## WMHLC

Great plow porn video.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> What's the width of your 6115?
> 
> I'm not finding it online, probably due to all the possible configurations.


It is as wide as the 92" Normand. I choose the N100 because I found the 92" a little narrow for that size of tractor. You can see in this pic that you can't see the 92" at all on the 6125M, and the N100 sticks out more from the 6115M, certainly helps with widening the driveway. I have been thinking about checking with a couple welding shops about possibly making a set of hydraulic wings for the N100 (just like the Cyclone blowers), figured it would cut down time on cleaning up the ends and doing a much better job rounding the corners of the driveways.


----------



## CAT 245ME

The 6125M with the 92" Normand. As you can see it's pretty even with the tractor tire width.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> It was sort of a last minute thing. We had been renting a tractor and operator from a farmer, he was "wooed" by the competition...more than I could afford to pay him, etc. (As an aside, he hated working for them in the past because they nickeled and dimed him for everything.)
> 
> So we were in somewhat of a bind, needed one fairly quick. Also weren't sure we were going to run that route due to operator availability.
> 
> Anyways, the NH dealer does the same thing as our Bobcat and Deere dealer...5 months of larger payments and 7 months of low or no payments. After 3 years, the machine is turned back in. Sounded great as it has worked well for me with my skidsteer and 244. But they aren't blue. I really don't need or want to own more tractors, already have too many sitting around in the summer so that was the other reason I thought it would work.
> 
> Kinda funny, everyone liked it at first...better road speed, cab is a bit nicer, etc. I ran it a couple times for a few hours each and hate it. Could care less about the road speed as it has less PTO HP than a comparable Deere, I can get used to the less than top of the line cab design of the Deere E Series, etc. Now that others have run it, they don't like it either.
> 
> Reading your posts about a larger tractor and 100" blower makes me wonder though. We do have some height limitations but I might just look into a 6 Series down the road.


I do encounter some places where low hanging branches are an issue, I tell the homeowner the only way I can do it is if they trim the branches, I have yet to have someone say no. I do know that companies that run large fleets of tractors like mine do the same with trimming branches.

I get what you mean with operator availability. I had a fella on the second tractor starting the season, the first couple months we only had a few 2" to 3" snowfalls. After the last couple heavier accumulations, he struggled very badly, it took him a little more than 4 hours to clear 30 driveways!!! I couldn't believe it and this happened again after the last storm a couple days ago, had to let him go. Found someone else that has experience but he wants $500 cash per week. So a full winter that comes to 10k, too much for me.


----------



## CAT 245ME

For those of you running the Normand Hybrid blowers, keep an eye on the top support bracket for the 3 point hitch assembly. I broke that piece in two after the last driveway on Monday. This happened during road travel, about 100 hours of use on the new blower.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Dang


----------



## Landgreen

CAT 245ME said:


> For those of you running the Normand Hybrid blowers, keep an eye on the top support bracket for the 3 point hitch assembly. I broke that piece in two after the last driveway on Monday. This happened during road travel, about 100 hours of use on the new blower.
> View attachment 202350
> View attachment 202351
> View attachment 202352
> View attachment 202353
> View attachment 202354
> View attachment 202355
> View attachment 202356


That's some premium breakage. Do you have an accumulator installed?


----------



## Neige

Folks you need to take care driving on the roads with any kind of implements on the back of a tractor. An accumulator will help, but you just can’t drive a full speed on our roads today. Spring time is even worse because of the thaw making roads extremely uneven. If you are going to drive full speed try and leave the blower only several inches off the ground. The next invention would be a hydraulic wheel on the blower you could use while driving between clients


----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> That's some premium breakage. Do you have an accumulator installed?


No, just tires are run a little lower on air. Now as far as road conditions are concerned, where I'm working they are in great shape with not very much bouncing, no frost heaves even this time of year. The gentleman that welded it also reinforced it on the second curved end, and said that it should've been welded the full length underneath instead of just in spots. He also said that he would've used thicker steel for added strength especially on a blower this size, he also noticed where three bolt holes had been drilled, he filled in two of them.

Now the old 92" Normand is also used in the same area on the same size tractor and also has the same weight, 5 years old and no issues.


----------



## Landgreen

Anyone with 5 series Deeres running the 24 sp trans? Ours have the 12sp and wondering if it's worth the $1,550 price tag for the upgrade. Curious about top speed gain.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Phile question...


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Phile question...


Did not get a phile answer.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Did not get a phile answer.


Whatever


----------



## m_ice

For guys going roads and driveways...
Do you plow roads 1st before blowing drives or vice versa?

I would think you would have to so you don't end up with a window at every drive.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Yes


----------



## Mark Oomkes

m_ice said:


> For guys going roads and driveways...
> Do you plow roads 1st before blowing drives or vice versa?
> 
> I would think you would have to so you don't end up with a window at every drive.


It can be done either way. Due to the ability to "recycle" the snow it isn't a huge deal to do the road after the drive, which if you don't have a hybrid is going to leave it cleaner.

Time wise I would think it would be faster to do the roads then drives. Some of our HOA's have other contractors plowing some drives so they might be there before us anyway and we have to not fill the end of their drives with snow.

Did have an operator forget one time and a guy called and said we left a 3-4' tall ridge in his driveway after the other contractor had already plowed. We had like 2" of snow, guy was just being an AC.


----------



## Landgreen

Anyone have recommendation for location and mount for a shovel on tractor or blower? The operators don't normally shovel anything but there are a couple drives that are far off the shoveling crew's route and would be better for the tractor operator to take care of.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Not yet...send me a pic if you find a good place.


----------



## BUFF

I would say away from the blower and along the side of the engine or vertical on the front. Along the side may be an issue for shorter operators to reach and the front could be a distraction for those that are A.D.D.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> I would say away from the blower and along the side of the engine or vertical on the front. Along the side may be an issue for shorter operators to reach and the front could be a distraction for those that are A.D.D.
> 
> View attachment 206358


Currently ours is strapped to the grille guard onto the weights in front as shown by the purple line.

It works, but could be better.


----------



## Unraveller

Landgreen said:


> Anyone have recommendation for location and mount for a shovel on tractor or blower? The operators don't normally shovel anything but there are a couple drives that are far off the shoveling crew's route and would be better for the tractor operator to take care of.


If you have a normand hybrid, there are nice D rings along the back. I use a 5ft bungee and loop it a couple times. fit's perfectly.


----------



## Landgreen

Unraveller said:


> If you have a normand hybrid, there are nice D rings along the back. I use a 5ft bungee and loop it a couple times. fit's perfectly.


I have a hybrid on the way. Looks like there's plenty of room for a shovel on those. Have to be more creative with the original style Normand blower.


----------



## BLPL

We mount our shovels like this, 2 small aluminum brackets and a PAC Tools bungie mount for handle, quick and easy. We also use the PAC tool holders on our Boss sanders for shovel mounts.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BLPL said:


> We mount our shovels like this, 2 small aluminum brackets and a PAC Tools bungie mount for handle, quick and easy. We also use the PAC tool holders on our Boss sanders for shovel mounts.
> View attachment 206421
> View attachment 206423


Looks good but doesn't it get buried in snow from "recycling"?

Ours would need to be behind the chute/shoot/choot.


----------



## DeVries

Mark Oomkes said:


> Looks good but doesn't it get buried in snow from "recycling"?
> 
> Ours would need to be behind the chute/shoot/choot.


Sounds to me your going to fast sir. Take your time and let the blower blow the snow away rather than push it too its limits. I know I speak from experience


----------



## Mark Oomkes

The only time one is going too fast is if the blower plugs...


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Appears this ol medium is on the verge of death. If any of you guys are interested we have a private facebook group for residential deneiger's. Quite active and focused, not much chaos like your avg group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2291306474519674


----------



## Mark Oomkes

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Appears this ol medium is on the verge of death. If any of you guys are interested we have a private facebook group for residential deneiger's. Quite active and focused, not much chaos like your avg group.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/2291306474519674


I don't have BookFace.


----------



## Mr.Markus

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't have BookFace.


I was banned...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Well right, wrong or otherwise, we gave up an entire route this year. It was too long, too spread out and we're short on manpower during the day as always. Also, almost 90% were winter only customers with little to no chance of converting into year round customers. 

So we are working on a different area where we already had a couple blower routes set up. They might not be "full" this year, but more of them are year round, we have other tractors in the area with operators that are available during the day and aren't quite as spread out. It might take a year to build up the density we desire but I've been thinking about it for a couple years and pulled the trigger. 

The other plus is we have not tractor/blower competition in this area as of now. And the people on the route we cancelled all loved the blower.


----------



## Hydromaster

Mark Oomkes said:


> Well right, wrong or otherwise, we gave up an entire route this year. It was too long, too spread out and we're short on manpower during the day as always. Also, almost 90% were winter only customers with little to no chance of converting into year round customers.
> 
> So we are working on a different area where we already had a couple blower routes set up. They might not be "full" this year, but more of them are year round, we have other tractors in the area with operators that are available during the day and aren't quite as spread out. It might take a year to build up the density we desire but I've been thinking about it for a couple years and pulled the trigger.
> 
> The other plus is we have not tractor/blower competition in this area as of now. And the people on the route we cancelled all loved the blower.


Nige jr..?

And Who doesn't like a good ,,,, nevermind


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> The other plus is we have not tractor/blower competition in this area as of now. And the people on the route we cancelled all loved the blower.


I was in the same situation, no one at all to compete with when I started 5 years ago. I'd say right now I have around 8 different guys with compact tractors/blowers in my service area. I know one guy in particular that had approached a few of my clients around his home after seeing my driveway markers. That's the downside of this and the internet, we are pretty much training our competition.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> I was in the same situation, no one at all to compete with when I started 5 years ago. I'd say right now I have around 8 different guys with compact tractors/blowers in my service area. I know one guy in particular that had approached a few of my clients around his home after seeing my driveway markers. That's the downside of this and the internet, we are pretty much training our competition.


Yup, fully aware of that. Which is why I want to hit it hard over the next couple years and build some routes.

For that matter, I started late as others were running tractor/blowers for probably 5 years before we started.


----------



## m_ice

Well I took the plunge and purchased a tractor yesterday that will be getting an inverted blower.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

m_ice said:


> Well I took the plunge and purchased a tractor yesterday that will be getting an inverted blower.


Pics?

Green? Orange in honor of Trump?

What blower?


----------



## m_ice




----------



## m_ice

Leaning towards a Normand 82"


----------



## m_ice

Mark Oomkes said:


> Pics?
> 
> Green? Orange in honor of Trump?
> 
> What blower?


Went with a 60 hp MF and with talking to Steve im leaning toward the 82"


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I sooooooo want to say something, but I know it won't fly.


----------



## seville009

m_ice said:


> View attachment 207126


i have a MF 1545; very reliable - about 13 years old, just personal use. No cab though on mine.

Only issues I ever really had were the seat would freeze in the winter, so the safety switch wouldn't release (just overrode it), and the fuel filter would gel frequently (so keep spares), I think because it sat outside the engine exposed (usually dumped a bottle of Diesel 911 in the tank to fix it).


----------



## EWSplow

Mark Oomkes said:


> I sooooooo want to say something, but I know it won't fly.


About the MF tractor? Or comment on his blower decision?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

EWSplow said:


> About the MF tractor? Or comment on his blower decision?


Yes


----------



## BossPlow2010

Doesn’t normand recommend at least 75 ponies for the 82?


----------



## m_ice

BossPlow2010 said:


> Doesn't normand recommend at least 75 ponies for the 82?


Website says [email protected] whatever that means, assuming its 40-75. @IMAGE is running 82s on hydrostatic 60hp machines in his fleet


----------



## DeVries

I guess it would work but oh so slowly?

I don't have much experience but a blower seems like a hp job.


----------



## CAT 245ME

This season getting another new N100 Normand HYB was not going to happen, was told February at the earliest. Had to settle for an N92, anyone ever think about adding hydraulic wings to their Normand?


----------



## Breckplow

SDLandscapes VT said:


> *on color*
> 
> well everything is a step up from orange--but the orange ones can still make money.
> 
> Bottom line on all of them is what do you have for dealer support
> 
> Here the green one is a local dealer with amazing support and they understand my business and my needs. This transcends price because at 3 in the morning when you need to be running and your dealer isn't behind you if you aren't clearing snow you are going to be in trouble.
> 
> For tires turfs are great in the snow but the rubber is super soft and we smoked a set of front turf tires in <150 hrs on our 4066r JD--we have nokian TRI-2 on that rig now and as the bigger ones wear out we will probably go to Alliance 550's or Nokian TRI-2 whatever works for our current rim sizes and MFWD ratios. If you do have to go ags we find the bias ply tires are far superior to the radials and the r4 industrials are simply scary
> 
> so
> 
> Nokian>Alliance 550>Turf>bias ply r1>>>radial r1>r4 industrial
> 
> What do you run in the Rear for tires the factory tire?


----------



## Frank Reynolds

This thread looks like it has the members with the most knowledge using farm style tractors for snow removal, so I hope you won't mind if I hijack it for a minute.

I currently operate a Holder 9.72 with a Pronovost 8' blower. I have an F-250 with 8' Western blade as a backup. I live in Northwest Wyoming in the mountains where we get a lot of snow, and I do about 25 long gravel driveways where blowing has many advantages.

I'm looking to pick up a few more clients this year. My plow truck as a backup would already be overwhelmed in one storm cycle with my current client list. And my Holder is amazing, but it has 4000 hours and reliability is always in the back of my mind. I'm afraid a breakdown in the middle of winter will kill my business. Parts are hard to get and very expensive. And I'm mechanically inclined, but I don't want to be a mechanic in the middle of winter, I just want to operate equipment. That being said, I'm looking at options to purchase a new machine that I can finance, and that comes with a warranty and local service options. The (only) local place sells LS tractors. They are recommending an MT5 model with 73 HP, with a 72" front mount LS blower.

Can anyone give me advice who has experience operating both a machine like a Holder and a similar sized farm tractor in regards to efficiency? I can't imagine a farm tractor will be nearly as maneuverable as the articulating Holder. And my Holder has low pressure siped winter truck tires and weighs around 12,000 pounds. This LS tractor has AG tires and is half the weight. I work some pretty steep driveways that put the Holder to the test... often requiring locking the diffs and making multiple attempts to get up. What can I expect from the LS MT5 in comparison?

Obviously this is a big purchase and a big switch in equipment, with no way to test drive, so I'm hoping someone with some relevant experience can fill me in!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Never operated a Holder. I can't imagine a 73 HP tractor being remotely powerful enough to be efficient with what you deal with.

Ag tires are going to suck. I run them until they need to be replaced then buy Nokians.

Not even worth bothering with IMO, not if you want to make money.

Looks like Powell or Riverton are your best bet for orange.

Deere dealer in Cody and Riverton. Or Idaho Falls. 

I know, those are all a good couple hours away in good weather.

The other big problem with buying an off brand tractor is parts availability. Stick with a name brand. And at a minimum 100 HP.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Never operated a Holder. I can't imagine a 73 HP tractor being remotely powerful enough to be efficient with what you deal with.
> 
> Ag tires are going to suck. I run them until they need to be replaced then buy Nokians.
> 
> Not even worth bothering with IMO, not if you want to make money.
> 
> Looks like Powell or Riverton are your best bet for orange.
> 
> Deere dealer in Cody and Riverton. Or Idaho Falls.
> 
> I know, those are all a good couple hours away in good weather.
> 
> The other big problem with buying an off brand tractor is parts availability. Stick with a name brand. And at a minimum 100 HP.


Ditto. Forget 73hp tractor if you're dealing with mountain snow. And I've never heard of LS. Maybe it's more common than I think but I would rather go Kubota or Deere or New Holland. This will be our first year with Nokians on a tractor. Ag R1 tires are terrible on snow and ice. It can get really dicey going downhill on a steep roadway.

What about another Holder? Seems like it has been getting the job done for you. I've heard they're expensive but at least you know that is has the traction you need.

Can you run chains or is that a no no out there?


----------



## Frank Reynolds

LS = New Holland, which is basically Mitsubishi in Japan. 

From what I understand, they used to import LS tractors and rebrand them New Holland for North America, but now they will just be sold under the LS brand.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

So your holder is actually about 5500 lb empty, plus your blower weight

https://www.max-holder.com/uploads/tx_bfactordokumente/BAL_C-Trac_9700...9.88H-GB_01.pdf
Maximum permissible weight is 4500 kg (about 9900 lb).

If you have had good luck with this municipal machine, I'd look for another one, whether Holder, Trackless, etc. New, they are very expensive (100K or more), but used ones are available on govdeals.com fairly frequently. Unfortunately, used means they are going to need work.


----------



## Frank Reynolds

The Holder is great, but a new one would be around $120k plus a blower There is no local dealer, so any kind of warranty or local service is out of the question. And even the brand new ones have some reliability issues.


----------



## Frank Reynolds

Aerospace Eng said:


> So your holder is actually about 5500 lb empty, plus your blower weight


I'm not sure why I remembered my Holder was so much heavier, but you are correct. I do have a big blower, and a massive counter weight, and auxiliary fuel tank, so probably around 8,000+ for the Holder. Like I said I'm already putting it to the test, and the general consensus I'm getting here is an AG tractor is going to be much worse. My best competitors uses big wheel loaders fully chained up, but the biggest complaints are the damage they do with the piles and with pushing off the driveways, but not from the chains...


----------



## Aerospace Eng

Perhaps an Ag Telehandler? 

They frequently have skidsteer attach capabilities on the end of the boom with hi-flow hydraulics available. 4 wheel steer, hydrostatic drive, but you won't get the power output to the blower of a tractor or holder type machine.


I don't know the pricing.


----------



## Frank Reynolds

A Telehandler would be an interesting solution! But probably not very practical for my work. And, at least around here, they are also very expensive.

I can't go back and edit my post, but it turns out the local place is actually recommending the smaller MT3 with the 52 or 57 Hp engines. The reason is this is the biggest model with the front PTO option for the blower. 

My current Holder is actually just 72 HP. Still a big difference.

My other considerations are a skid steer with hydraulic blower...


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Never operated a Holder. I can't imagine a 73 HP tractor being remotely powerful enough to be efficient with what you deal with.
> 
> Ag tires are going to suck. I run them until they need to be replaced then buy Nokians.
> 
> Not even worth bothering with IMO, not if you want to make money.
> 
> Looks like Powell or Riverton are your best bet for orange.
> 
> Deere dealer in Cody and Riverton. Or Idaho Falls.
> 
> I know, those are all a good couple hours away in good weather.
> 
> The other big problem with buying an off brand tractor is parts availability. Stick with a name brand. And at a minimum 100 HP.


NH dealer in Riverton is meh on a good day, JD on the udder hand is very well supported in NW Wyo


----------



## Aerospace Eng

I wiuldn’t worry about the front PTO option. Most manufacturers sell mounts that are underslung and use the rear PTO to power the blower.

Even more out of the box, but infortunately requiring you to be handy would be a Unimog with a blower.

I’d probably get another used Holder or Trackless.


----------



## BUFF

Aerospace Eng said:


> I wiuldn't worry about the front PTO option. Most manufacturers sell mounts that are underslung and use the rear PTO to power the blower.
> 
> Even more out of the box, but infortunately requiring you to be handy would be a Unimog with a blower.
> 
> I'd probably get another used Holder or Trackless.


Mogs are fairly commonly used, with and without blowers.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

There appears to be one on Unimog.net with a Schmidt TS4 blower for 48K out of MT.

I don’t know if the blower is mechanically or hydraulically driven by the bed engine (Mercedes turbo V-8).

One of the nice things about Unimogs is that they can road themselves.


----------



## Ice-sage

@Frank Reynolds 
Who are you dealing with from Holder Canada? Not sure how many are left but there were a whole bunch of 9.92's that were outfitted already with Pronovost or Normand blow-in/blow-out reverse snow blowers mounted to them. Apparently a company ordered a ton of them built that way and something happened. All of a sudden there was a glutton of them brand new for sale on Kiij in Canada for sale for roughly 50% off. Still kicking myself for not buying a half dozen of them. If their are still any for sale, and you wanted to get one, for the type of work your doing I would sell the blowers that came with those machines and go buy a Zaugg blower.

Do you have to do all your own maintenence on the Holder's?


----------



## Frank Reynolds

Ice-sage said:


> @Frank Reynolds
> Who are you dealing with from Holder Canada?


I don't have any contact there. I've emailed a couple different addresses @holdertractor.com and never got any replies. I'd love to get a contact so I can buy parts!



> Do you have to do all your own maintenence on the Holder's?


Yup! Overall it's not bad but when certain parts break it's a major PITA, and the delay of getting new parts is significant. That is why I'm looking into another machine.


----------



## BUFF

@Frank Reynolds 
There's a few low hour machines pretty local to you and according to the listing blowers and blades are included
https://www.machinerytrader.com/lis...0/miscellaneous-equipment/manufacturer/holder


----------



## Mark Oomkes

What aboot buying a used Holder as a backup?


----------



## Frank Reynolds

Yes I've definitely considered another Holder. But even the new 992 models have some issues that require separating the halves to repair. And a used 992 as linked above is still in the $50-80k range, with no warranty, expensive and hard to get parts, and little options for service or support. Also there is pretty much zero summertime use with a Holder. 

The reality is I think I've backed myself into a corner using the Holder, as it's probably the most efficient machine for what I'm doing, and any other option is likely a significant reduction in efficiency.


----------



## SHAWZER

Any new or used Trackless machines out there . At least you can get parts because they are made in Ontario .


----------



## BUFF

SHAWZER said:


> Any new or used Trackless machines out there . At least you can get parts because they are made in Ontario .


Over $100k
https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/list/manufacturer/trackless


----------



## BUFF

Mog with blower and blade

https://wyoming.craigslist.org/grd/d/chugwater-unimog-1200-w-snow-plow-and/7203145977.html


----------



## Aerospace Eng

The Unimog I saw is toward the bottom. Been on there since June, though, so it might have been sold...

http://unimog.net/exchange/
Here's Two Tracklesses (Tracklii??) at auction...

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?...ord=trackless&whichForm=vehicle&searchPg=Main
Bad part, they are both in Canada, so you have to deal with import issues and can't get across the border to inspect them. Good part, the price is in that Canadian monopoly money.


----------



## Frank Reynolds

The Unimog with the blower was pretty interesting. But I'm coming to realize nothing will replace the small articulating tractor with big blower for mixed residential. I'll be shopping for another Holder or maybe a Multihog if I can find one that is affordable. Trackless doesn't make my cut simply because it's so similar to Holder as far as costs and reliability, but with some other major drawbacks with limited visibility and maybe not quite as good at carrying the heavy blowers.

I wish JD or Cat would make a mini articulating tractor with a big engine, all hydraulic, and front PTO. Seems like there is definitely a market that needs to be filled...


----------



## Ice-sage

@Frank Reynolds

You don't have a relationship with either Holder dealer in western Colorado?

The dealer in my state is semi-competent and has difficulty getting parts as well. How did we get around it?
Went straight to Max Holder GmbH in Germany. Of course depending on the size of the part, you can get parts shipped overnight. And on your doorstep by day 2. It is a process to be learned, but if you are buying these types of machines you should expect to be making the kind of cash with them that can support the use of these machines.

We looked at it like this. Buy each machine outright. If it can not do or get the work to payback the initial purchase price in 2 winters, 3 winters maximum and that is pushing it, then there is no reason to have these machines.


----------



## fireball

Check out auctions international. Burlington Vermont has about 10 holders up this week on Wednesday. For a small amount you could have a fleet and spare blowers Sanders and brooms load a container and ship


----------



## fireball

Auctions international has 10 holder tractors with attachments from Burlington by this Wednesday. If you ask nicely I'm sure Berny Saunders would autograph them for you. Load them in a container and ship


----------



## Frank Reynolds

fireball said:


> Auctions international has 10 holder tractors with attachments from Burlington by this Wednesday. If you ask nicely I'm sure Berny Saunders would autograph them for you. Load them in a container and ship


Thanks, I'll watch those auctions, although shipping all the way across the country might be tricky.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

Frank Reynolds said:


> Thanks, I'll watch those auctions, although shipping all the way across the country might be tricky.


It's actually fairly easy. You just need a good broker. It's easier if you have a whole truckload worth.


----------



## Landgreen

Got some seat time in the JD5100 with Nokians. Holy crap. They stick like glue. We got aboot 5" of nasty heavy. The stuff that easily packs down and wont peel up. The grip on these tires makes all the difference compared to R1's. The tractor goes wherever its pointed and stops wherever its supposed to. Had a flagdown today .Drive was really steep .i thought what the hell lets see what happens. Backed right up and held firm while shifting and lowering blower. No white knuckle sideways slide or needing to make several attempts. 

Never ordering another tractor without them.


----------



## Orriono

PTSolutions said:


> Note: Please don't comment or make suggestions if you have not read this original post. I will explain our situation and goal as best I can. Too many times people post something that wasn't asked for or the option was not even on the table to begin with.
> 
> Ok, well I have been researching this option for about 2 years now and would like to implement this in my area. I have read, searched and watched videos and ran some numbers to see if this service would be not only feasable but profitable as well. Looking at Neige, BlackIrish, Blowerman as examples I applied their business model to our operations and looked at the overlaps.
> 
> *Our current situation:*
> 
> -This year we are operating 4 of our own plow trucks, 1 sub and 1 ASV RC100 with 85"blower
> 
> -We service approximately 200 residential customers, about 75% of which are located within a 1.5mile radius of our base of operations. ~110 of those customers have a 10hr. service window. (senior citizen program, discounted rate and longer service window)
> 
> -We service a 62 unit HOA with driveways that avg. 1 car length by 2 car widths. This account will be done with the ASV with Blower and 1 of the trucks will do the roadway (6/10ths of a mile)
> 
> -We service 4 other commercial lots the largest of which is approx. 1 acre. 2 of those lots are done regularly, the other is a church and activity center that need to be done only for certain days, unless they get 3" or more.
> 
> -We strive for and achieve a 6hr route completion time (under normal circumstances)
> 
> *Opportunity for more clients:*
> 
> -there are approximately 1000-2000 senior citizens that participate in the program and about 6 contractors. We have taken over quite a few clients b/c of word of mouth. Oftentimes we have done a driveway twice during a heavier storm when the other contractors havent even gotten out once. During renewals in October we are often requested to take over service because we finish so much faster and do a more professional job than the other contractors. My plan is with a blower service I can take over the entire program through the inherent benefits, faster, no piles, cleaner edges etc...
> 
> -The neighboring city also offers a senior program but is done only by maintence workers, after the municipal route is completed. There was an article in the paper about how this program is costing them too much money, as it is free. They have been exploring the option of letting private contractors take this over and I want to meet with the council members and offer them a similar set up to what our city has set up. They currently service 850 clients, but with a more structured program with better service I estimate an additional 300 clients to sign on to this program.
> 
> *What I need help with:*
> 
> -Deciding which equipment best suits my needs
> 
> -The vast majority of our clients can be accessed via side roads that all connect with each other so there is minimal driving on main roads.
> 
> -Tractors with inversed pto driven blowers
> 
> -Toolcats with either pto or front mount hydraulic driven blowers
> 
> Toolcats:
> 59hp
> 18mph road speed
> 17gpm standard or 27.5gpm hi flow aux hydraulics
> 1500lb lift capacity FEL
> 25hp pto rating
> 1775lb lift capactiy 3pt
> 5500-6000lb op weight
> used prices 4-600hrs: 27-35K
> 
> Tractors:
> 60-75hp class (kubota m6040 & m7040)
> up to 25mph road speed?
> 11gpm, no hi flow
> up to 4000lb lift capacity 3pt
> used prices 100-600hrs: 20-32K
> 
> now, obviously the specs favor tractors for blower situations, but from those who have used toolcats, is there anything i missed? I mean, anything that would make me take a closer look at using them vs. blowers?
> 
> specifically BlackIrish, what do you like about your toolcats?
> 
> About 90% of these machines use will be residential driveways, but if we get more commercial accounts I may also utilize them there, but this isnt a deal breaker, if we get a large lot or lots, then that will dictate what equipment i need onsite.
> 
> I really wont have a need for either in the off-season since our uses mainly require mtl or other skid steer and excavators.
> 
> Sorry for such a long winded post, but i wanted to provide as much info as possible so that you guys may provide the most accurate points of view.


Weight of a tractor may be an issue especially during freeze thaw times. Toolcat weighs about #6500 and is super nimble. Hi flow is 35+ on newer units


----------



## Frank Reynolds

Orriono said:


> Weight of a tractor may be an issue especially during freeze thaw times. Toolcat weighs about #6500 and is super nimble. Hi flow is 35+ on newer units


Can you post a source for this? Current Bobcat website lists Toolcat specs at 27.9 GPM for high flow, same it's always been for the Toolcat series.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Frank Reynolds said:


> Can you post a source for this? Current Bobcat website lists Toolcat specs at 27.9 GPM for high flow, same it's always been for the Toolcat series.


A Deere 5100e can go up to aboot 8K #. A whopping 1,500 more than the Toolcat. I suppose you have to add the blower weight. Same as a ToolCat though.

But it has larger tires so weight is more spread out.

Then again, I have no idea what he's talking about. Weight during freeze/thaw? What difference could that make?

And from experience, 17 MPH travel speed is pushing it. Any amount of snow on the road, or small hill and you lose speed.

None of his post really makes sense.


----------



## jato

Mark Oomkes said:


> A Deere 5100e can go up to aboot 8K #. A whopping 1,500 more than the Toolcat. I suppose you have to add the blower weight. Same as a ToolCat though.
> 
> But it has larger tires so weight is more spread out.
> 
> Then again, I have no idea what he's talking about. Weight during freeze/thaw? What difference could that make?
> 
> And from experience, 17 MPH travel speed is pushing it. Any amount of snow on the road, or small hill and you lose speed.
> 
> None of his post really makes sense.


I am looking for a Normand dealer because I want to order two 92" inverted blowers. Anybody got someone I can call or email? 
Shipping would be to Rochester Michigan. Or if they're close enough, I could pick them up (maybe). 
Thank you!


----------



## Orriono

Frank Reynolds said:


> Can you post a source for this? Current Bobcat website lists Toolcat specs at 27.9 GPM for high flow, same it's always been for the Toolcat series.


My bad. I was thinking of my Case wheel loader which is about 38. You are correct, Toolcat is 27.8


----------



## jonniesmooth

jato said:


> I am looking for a Normand dealer because I want to order two 92" inverted blowers. Anybody got someone I can call or email?
> Shipping would be to Rochester Michigan. Or if they're close enough, I could pick them up (maybe).
> Thank you!


https://tnasales.com/


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc.

jato said:


> I am looking for a Normand dealer because I want to order two 92" inverted blowers. Anybody got someone I can call or email?
> Shipping would be to Rochester Michigan. Or if they're close enough, I could pick them up (maybe).
> Thank you!


Try here

https://m.facebook.com/groups/2291306474519674?group_view_referrer=search


----------



## jato

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Try here
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/groups/2291306474519674?group_view_referrer=search


Yes thank you. I tried to get into that group a couple months ago but Nick B said his FB account was hacked so he can't manage it right now.


----------



## jonniesmooth




----------



## jato

jonniesmooth said:


> https://tnasales.com/


Will do thank you


----------



## jonniesmooth

jato said:


> Will do thank you


Steve will take good care of you.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I'm hearing some conflicting info on who the Meatchicken distributor is. Haven't had a chance to talk to Steve about it.


----------



## jato

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm hearing some conflicting info on who the Meatchicken distributor is. Haven't had a chance to talk to Steve about it.


Ok cool thank you. I'll try to make some more calls after this holiday weekend


----------



## Mark Oomkes

jato said:


> Ok cool thank you. I'll try to make some more calls after this holiday weekend


If I have a chance to talk to Steve and it's true, I'll let you know who the Meatchicken distributor is.


----------



## m_ice

For those of you using Normand hybrids whats the scrap quality in general? I ask because we have triggers below 2".


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Fantastic compared to the old style.


----------



## m_ice

Mark Oomkes said:


> Fantastic compared to the old style.


Thanks


----------



## m_ice

For a standard double wide 40'long drive approximately how much time for an 82" hybrid on a normal snow?

I figure 4 passes???


----------



## Mark Oomkes

2 minutes


----------



## m_ice

Mark Oomkes said:


> 2 minutes


Thanks Mark


----------



## jato

Mark Oomkes said:


> 2 minute


40' is a very short drive. The tractor and blower are probably 16-20' total. And 2 cars wide is 3 passes for an 80" blower, right?


----------



## m_ice

jato said:


> 40' is a very short drive. The tractor and blower are probably 16-20' total. And 2 cars wide is 3 passes for an 80" blower, right?


I figured 4 passes so there's plenty of overlap.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

jato said:


> 40' is a very short drive. The tractor and blower are probably 16-20' total. And 2 cars wide is 3 passes for an 80" blower, right?


Start to finish.

3 passes won't leave the approach very wide.

I might be a bit high, not too much.


----------



## Landgreen

New skins for our JD 5085. Went with Alliance 550's over the Nokians. Similar tread pattern and saved some coin.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> New skins for our JD 5085. Went with Alliance 550's over the Nokians. Similar tread pattern and saved some coin.
> View attachment 221403


Did the originals wear out or were you sick of blowing on ice skates?


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Did the originals wear out or were you sick of blowing on ice skates?


Still had at least half tread left on the R1's but really handicap a blower tractor. With snows a tractor can maneuver so much better. Less chance of wiping out stakes, cars, etc. We won't have to pass up drives that r1's cant get up or at least safely get up. Above all the operator feels more comfortable and doesnt have to worry about sliding through a downhill approach to stop signs. Happened to one of our guys last winter. Could have easily collided with traffic or ended up in West Bay.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I agree, I try to wear them out bur if there's any weather checking before they're worn our I upgrade.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> I agree, I try to wear them out bur if there's any weather checking before they're worn our I upgrade.


Tire installer offered me $600 for the old ones. No clue what used tractor tires sell for. Glad to have them gone.


----------



## m_ice

Finally took the plunge


----------



## WIPensFan

m_ice said:


> Finally took the plunge
> 
> View attachment 222243


Pic of what it's going on? Or did I miss that somewhere?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

A tractor...


----------



## m_ice

WIPensFan said:


> Pic of what it's going on? Or did I miss that somewhere?


I'll update when I get it hooked up with a pic of both...sorry probably not going to be a video.


----------



## Ajlawn1

m_ice said:


> Finally took the plunge
> 
> View attachment 222243


Hmmm looks familiar...


----------



## WIPensFan

Ajlawn1 said:


> Hmmm looks familiar...


Another one of your flea market finds??


----------



## WIPensFan

Mark Oomkes said:


> A tractor...


Where?!?


----------



## Ajlawn1

WIPensFan said:


> Another one of your flea market finds??


No, but Wyatt's gonna be pissed when he finds his blower missing...


----------



## WIPensFan

Ajlawn1 said:


> No, but Wyatt's gonna be pissed when he finds his blower missing...


Excuse my ignorance, but who's Wyatt??


----------



## WIPensFan

m_ice said:


> I'll update when I get it hooked up with a pic of both...sorry probably not going to be a video.


Cool thanks. Get some video this winter!


----------



## WIPensFan

Ajlawn1 said:


> No, but Wyatt's gonna be pissed when he finds his blower missing...


Lol… never mind, I see it now.


----------



## Ajlawn1

WIPensFan said:


> Lol… never mind, I see it now.


----------



## WIPensFan

Ajlawn1 said:


> View attachment 222259


I can't help it! I'm drugged up and almost asleep. Very very similar to this picture, even the pacifier…


----------



## jato

Hi, has anybody mounted a brine tank and spray bar to a tractor and blower? I want to put the bar on the back of an inverted blower. If so, got recommendations on best way to do it? I might get a VSI bar that has a center mount to fit a 2" hitch receiver.
I'm wondering where might be the best spot on the tractor to put a 60-100 gal tank. It's an L6060 so more weight on the back seems not the best idea. Maybe mount it low but aside the cab somewhere? I don't know. I don't want to make the tractor much wider. 

For the spray bar Im thinking of maybe having someone weld a receiver to the back of the blower, high/ forward enough so the bar isn't sticking out off the back more than a couple inches. Then on the last 1-2 passes, hit the driveway with the brine. 

But maybe thats not the best mount if it will be bouncing a lot. I'd prefer to be able to detach the bar so it can go on a truck hitch receiver for lighter snows. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## jato

Another question: for those of you using Follosoft, what cellular tablet setup is working best for you? We have Verizon for our cellular.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I'd mount the tank up front for counterweight. Although I don't recall if you were going to mount a plow, so maybe that won't work.

And I don't dare quote because BUZZ will ***** me out for quoting the wrong person.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'd mount the tank up front for counterweight. Although I don't recall if you were going to mount a plow, so maybe that won't work.
> 
> And I don't dare quote because BUZZ will ***** me out for quoting the wrong person.


Agree, front mount is ideal but there's the option of saddle tanks too.


----------



## jato

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'd mount the tank up front for counterweight. Although I don't recall if you were going to mount a plow, so maybe that won't work.
> 
> And I don't dare quote because BUZZ will ***** me out for quoting the wrong person.


Thanks! Yeah we aren't getting any other pushing attachments for the tractors yet. Just the inverted blowers on back. And hopefully some way of doing salt or brine. At least for this season.


----------



## jato

BUFF said:


> Agree, front mount is ideal but there's the option of saddle tanks too.


Right on. Thank you! I hadn't known about the saddle tank option.


----------



## jato

I graduated. I read this entire thread and got to the current page today. I got a lot of great advice from it. Thank you, guys. 
Update: After adding new ones and cutting 25 of last year's clients because of drive time, we are at about 55 resi clients right now in an 11-square mile area. Two tractors to cover it, so they'll each move around in 5-6 square miles of neighborhood streets, connected with short sections of open road. There are about 15-20 new estimates out right now, which will probably get approved. And between Angie's list and our site and Nextdoor I am doing 3-5 estimates per day. 2 of those are usually ready to sign up before I get to the price. Ads this week should take that to 7+ per day for a week or two. So I'll raise rates before thanksgiving. I'm hoping to hit a goal of 110 or more clients for this first season. 200 is my pipe dream goal but I'm keeping prices high, so there's no rush. Over 110 would put us safely in the black for snow for the year, and allow me to not have to drive unless I wanted to. Goal is to have each tractor doing 100+ drives in 2022-2023.


----------



## m_ice

jato said:


> I graduated. I read this entire thread and got to the current page today. I got a lot of great advice from it. Thank you, guys.
> Update: After adding new ones and cutting 25 of last year's clients because of drive time, we are at about 55 resi clients right now in an 11-square mile area. Two tractors to cover it, so they'll each move around in 5-6 square miles of neighborhood streets, connected with short sections of open road. There are about 15-20 new estimates out right now, which will probably get approved. And between Angie's list and our site and Nextdoor I am doing 3-5 estimates per day. 2 of those are usually ready to sign up before I get to the price. Ads this week should take that to 7+ per day for a week or two. So I'll raise rates before thanksgiving. I'm hoping to hit a goal of 110 or more clients for this first season. 200 is my pipe dream goal but I'm keeping prices high, so there's no rush. Over 110 would put us safely in the black for snow for the year, and allow me to not have to drive unless I wanted to. Goal is to have each tractor doing 100+ drives in 2022-2023.


What blowers did you end up with?


----------



## jato

m_ice said:


> What blowers did you end up with?


Found 2 tractors that were paired with pronovost blowers already. One is a cyclone 80" and the other is a regular inverted 80. The blowers and tractors each have 3-4 seasons on them, 650-700hrs

If I had more options I'd probably have gone normand 82s. But this was the path of least resistance. And I'm happy about the cyclone and how close it can get backing up.


----------



## WIPensFan

jato said:


> I graduated. I read this entire thread and got to the current page today. I got a lot of great advice from it. Thank you, guys.
> Update: After adding new ones and cutting 25 of last year's clients because of drive time, we are at about 55 resi clients right now in an 11-square mile area. Two tractors to cover it, so they'll each move around in 5-6 square miles of neighborhood streets, connected with short sections of open road. There are about 15-20 new estimates out right now, which will probably get approved. And between Angie's list and our site and Nextdoor I am doing 3-5 estimates per day. 2 of those are usually ready to sign up before I get to the price. Ads this week should take that to 7+ per day for a week or two. So I'll raise rates before thanksgiving. I'm hoping to hit a goal of 110 or more clients for this first season. 200 is my pipe dream goal but I'm keeping prices high, so there's no rush. Over 110 would put us safely in the black for snow for the year, and allow me to not have to drive unless I wanted to. Goal is to have each tractor doing 100+ drives in 2022-2023.


Good for you man. I hope you have a great season. Keep us up to date on progress and trial and tribulations.


----------



## BUFF

WIPensFan said:


> Good for you man. I hope you have a great season. Keep us up to date on progress and trial and tribulations.


And take videos......


----------



## WIPensFan

BUFF said:


> And take videos......


Please don't steal my PS Thunder… It's all I have left.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I'm curious to know if anyone is running this type of system on your tractors. I've been considering something like this as I cover a fairly large area, and wondering what others think. https://www-follosoft-com.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc


----------



## jato

Yes we use Follosoft. It is an incredible help. Hands free, the driver just needs to follow the path you've set. And you can watch their progress in real time on your own computer as they do the route. If you're in a truck you can login and monitor it with any tablet or laptop. This is my first year using it. We have 2 tractors and 2 shoveling trucks running it on tablets. Makes routing very easy. And you can put notes about each property for the crew or driver to see as they drive up to it.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

jato said:


> Yes we use Follosoft. It is an incredible help. Hands free, the driver just needs to follow the path you've set. And you can watch their progress in real time on your own computer as they do the route. If you're in a truck you can login and monitor it with any tablet or laptop. This is my first year using it. We have 2 tractors and 2 shoveling trucks running it on tablets. Makes routing very easy. And you can put notes about each property for the crew or driver to see as they drive up to it.


I haven't looked closely at it yet...does it use GPS trackers? Smart phones? Cost?

Sorry a bit behind and will take a look but looking for some quick answers.


----------



## Mountain Bob

Mark Oomkes said:


> I haven't looked closely at it yet...does it use GPS trackers? Smart phones? Cost?
> 
> Sorry a bit behind and will take a look but looking for some quick answers.


GPS trackers in the trucks. The program is cloud based, and you run it from your office pc. Trucks must have pads or laptops that are net connected. Well, to get full use of the system.


----------



## Hydromaster

Is it ready a stand-alone suestem?
If you have to have a iPad or a phone connected to the Internet its just using the GPS location from the device and you can track the device on your own already .


----------



## Mountain Bob

Hydromaster said:


> Is it ready a stand-alone suestem?
> If you have to have a iPad or a phone connected to the Internet its just using the GPS location from the device and you can track the device on your own already .


The way I read it, you can use it as basic -gps in trucks, home office can follow you, or have pads in trucks,so you can send them directions and maps. Don't see why you could not just run it from an pad,in a truck.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Mountain Bob said:


> The way I read it, you can use it as basic -gps in trucks, home office can follow you, or have pads in trucks,so you can send them directions and maps. Don't see why you could not just run it from an pad,in a truck.


Kinda why I axed someone that is actually using it.

I hate the idea of buying tablets for all my equipment, but on the flip side this should eliminate missed driveways. And driving all over creation as some employees like to do.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Part of the reason I'm axing is also because I am less than satisfied with my current GPS trackers. We are having quite a few replacement trackers sent on a regular basis. Plus there are "phantom" trips which they blame on voltage fluctuations.

The best was I had 2 pieces of equipment showing up as a mile away from their actual location. Pretty worthless.

Second best was they told me that sometimes the trackers quit working if a vehicle sits for a long period of time so I should consider disconnecting them......errrr WUT???????????????

And if someone steals it while it's disconnected you district attorney?


----------



## fireball

Unless the district attorney is one of the missed driveway. 
Seems like the industry doesn't attract the attention of software developers.


----------



## jato

Mark Oomkes said:


> I haven't looked closely at it yet...does it use GPS trackers? Smart phones? Cost?
> 
> Sorry a bit behind and will take a look but looking for some quick answers.


To use it you need android tablets that have cellular and GPS. We got the Samsung Galaxy Tab 7 "lite".
The GPS geocoding is very accurate. It shows the operator and the owner/office the percentage of the route that is finished at all times.
I think it saves a ton of time early in the season, and saves a couple minutes before/after each property.

You can make notes show in bright red when the vehicle pulls up, if you want the operator to look out for something. If it's a shovel truck, the shoveling notes will pop up, to help them remember to shovel the side door path or to only shovel the public sidewalk. Helps get the details right and helps eliminate return trips in my opinion.
It can send robo calls or texts when your vehicle is 5-10 stops ahead, giving clients a chance to move their cars from the driveway if they want to. It can send your contracts out and handle payment records too I guess.

It's expensive, but I think the system is great if you have a whole lot of stops to make, especially in neighborhoods where houses are very close together.


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc.

jato said:


> To use it you need android tablets that have cellular and GPS. We got the Samsung Galaxy Tab 7 "lite".


Jato, how are you using the Samsung Galaxy Tab lite if it doesn't have a slot for a SIM card? Or am I missing something?


----------



## jato

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Jato, how are you using the Samsung Galaxy Tab lite if it doesn't have a slot for a SIM card? Or am I missing something?


Hmm. I'm not sure where the info was, but I confirmed they could have GPS and a SIM card before we ordered them. We paid about $200 each direct from Verizon thru our business acct (this is technically paid in installments at about $7 per month per tablet). Verizon sent them to me with sims already installed and ready to go. They booted up first time and had the unlimited data plan already set up. Downloading the follotrack app and logging in takes about 30 seconds. Then the tablet ready to roll.

Add another 2 mins to put a good case on it. We ordered suction RAM mounts that are super strong. They are great for tractors but maybe a CD player or cup holder mount would be better for trucks to keep them out of sightline. The screen on ours are only about 8" so it's not too annoying.

Now making the actual turn by turn route on the Follosoft web portal is a time consuming thing. But you only have to do that once, from scratch, before the snow season starts. After that it's a matter of clicking and dragging to add or remove a few turns and stops each week as the season goes on. That's on the web portal, not on the tablet. All the tablet does is guide drivers and report where they are back to the office. I hate the clicking and dragging on those routes. Took me 2-3 hours to map the first 30 accounts the first time. But at this point it's easy. I removed a few stops and added a few stops yesterday. Each change takes 2-3 mins. I think you can actually change the stops and add contracts while someone is out running a route too. If you want. Tho I haven't tried that yet.

My two drivers each missed one driveway on their first run, out of 50 stops each. Idk how those happened but I honestly didn't care. I called that a win. The snow was slushy and it was a sh^*show anyway.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Thanks for the info.

Still curious what "expensive" means.


----------



## WIPensFan

jato said:


> To use it you need android tablets that have cellular and GPS. We got the Samsung Galaxy Tab 7 "lite".
> The GPS geocoding is very accurate. It shows the operator and the owner/office the percentage of the route that is finished at all times.
> I think it saves a ton of time early in the season, and saves a couple minutes before/after each property.
> 
> You can make notes show in bright red when the vehicle pulls up, if you want the operator to look out for something. If it's a shovel truck, the shoveling notes will pop up, to help them remember to shovel the side door path or to only shovel the public sidewalk. Helps get the details right and helps eliminate return trips in my opinion.
> It can send robo calls or texts when your vehicle is 5-10 stops ahead, giving clients a chance to move their cars from the driveway if they want to. It can send your contracts out and handle payment records too I guess.
> 
> It's expensive, but I think the system is great if you have a whole lot of stops to make, especially in neighborhoods where houses are very close together.


That sounds awesome. I would have loved that 15 yrs ago. Lots of residential and always did walks and or special instructions. The robo call ahead to move cars would have only worked a few times a season as we were usually there at 4-7am. Most cars were sleeping teenagers.


Mark Oomkes said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Still curious what "expensive" means.


It means no more MetalPless for a couple years!


----------



## jato

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Still curious what "expensive" means.


Oh sorry. As of right now there is a one time setup fee of I think CAD 1500. Then it's CAD 80 / month from November thru April, per device you run. They require 5 devices minimum monthly billing. Even if you're running 3 tablets you'll pay for 5. So basically I think we pay $320 (USD) per month. In the end the routes will get denser with time and that monthly cost will be less than 2% of total tractor revenue. When we finally have all 5 in their busy tractors it would be much more affordable as a portion of overall revenue.

But until now I was used to using a GPS and Google maps. So the sticker shock of all this is still fresh in my brain and it still seems expensive to me. 
Our drivers had a great day today. Didn't miss any drives. Scrape quality with the blowers was great. I'll attach some pics. What you see here was at about 8am and most of that thin stuff burned off when the sun finally came out.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> Kinda why I axed someone that is actually using it.
> 
> I hate the idea of buying tablets for all my equipment, but on the flip side this should eliminate missed driveways. And driving all over creation as some employees like to do.


I've been having the same issues with the operator on my second tractor, he has his area but often times he ends up over in my area just randomly clearing any drives that are marked, even some that are not mine!

The followsoft looks like a worth wile investment, I do believe some of the larger snow contractors in Ontario & Quebec are using it.


----------



## Landgreen

Anybody have any info on the new Bilodeau extendable blowers?

The SE2500 extends from 92 to 144. Price tag is about $6-7k more than their normal 92 inverse. But 12' is some serious production.

Worried about snagging a curb, rock etc and tweaking it. I've heard the push box extensions of similar design have done that.


----------



## m_ice

Landgreen said:


> Anybody have any info on the new Bilodeau extendable blowers?
> 
> The SE2500 extends from 92 to 144. Price tag is about $6-7k more than their normal 92 inverse. But 12' is some serious production.
> 
> Worried about snagging a curb, rock etc and tweaking it. I've heard the push box extensions of similar design have done that.


Steve at tna in Fargo sells them now instead of normand. I'd call him


----------



## Landgreen

m_ice said:


> Steve at tna in Fargo sells them now instead of normand. I'd call him


I talked to Travis and got info and pricing


----------



## Landgreen

Here's a video of one. Skip to 1:51 unless you speak Francais


----------



## BUFF

Landgreen said:


> Here's a video of one. Skip to 1:51 unless you speak Francais


Thought is was Spanish...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Seems like a lot of potential for damage...property and equipment.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Seems like a lot of potential for damage...property and equipment.


 A good operator shouldn't have any issues. The issue is finding a good operator.

I don't see see it as problematic as like a 16' back blade poses. I would never hand off one of those to an employee. I found it was way too easy to leave a wing folded out. Had a couple close calls with our ebling.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> A good operator shouldn't have any issues. The issue is finding a good operator.
> 
> I don't see see it as problematic as like a 16' back blade poses. I would never hand off one of those to an employee. I found it was way too easy to leave a wing folded out. Had a couple close calls with our ebling.


I'm trying to purchase equipment that reduces the potential for damage and is efficient. Not sure this fits my requirements.


----------



## WIPensFan

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm trying to purchase equipment that reduces the potential for damage and is efficient. Not sure this fits my requirements.


It doesn't. That slide will get bent. And when it does, no more slidey slidey. Wish we could have seen a different perspective on that video. As far as how the extension operates and how heavy it's built.


----------



## DeVries

I have no clue how guys go hours on end looking backwards


----------



## Mark Oomkes

DeVries said:


> I have no clue how guys go hours on end looking backwards


There's a guy around here with a blue tractor (explains everything) that is plowing commercial lots with just a backblade.

I don't hate myself that much.


----------



## BUFF

DeVries said:


> I have no clue how guys go hours on end looking backwards


History buff's?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Back in the day, there were 3 expanding back plows. 

The SwingWing and Ebling which were essentially the same that the wings swung out on a hinge. And there was the Geerligs type which slid out similar to the whatever blower above. I know there are similar front plows available also. 

Anyways, the Geerligs was extremely heavy and prone to not sliding back in after getting tweaked. There were also incidences of cars getting sideswiped because the wing wouldn't retract, getting hooked on a fire hydrant, causing someone else to go in the ditch because the truck was on the way back to the shop and the wing wouldn't retract so it was in oncoming traffic. 

The Geerligs is no longer in production, for more than just the above reason. But the others with wings moving at 1 hinge point are readily available from numerous manufacturers. IMO, that tells me something about the sliding vs pivoting methods of expanding the width of a blower or plow. 

Not saying they aren't decent, just that there is a lot of potential for property and/or equipment damage. And how much time is saved compared to lost if/when the operator does hook something and renders the blower unusable for the rest of the night.


----------



## Landgreen

WIPensFan said:


> It doesn't. That slide will get bent. And when it does, no more slidey slidey. Wish we could have seen a different perspective on that video. As far as how the extension operates and how heavy it's built.


Heres another video showing detail of slide function

The audio is in Quebekian...


----------



## Mountain Bob

I'm not impressed with it.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Heres another video showing detail of slide function
> 
> The audio is in Quebekian...


I looked at Cotech's website. First page will translate to American, next page is only Quebekian. I stopped looking any further.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> The Geerligs is no longer in production, for more than just the above reason. But the others with wings moving at 1 hinge point are readily available from numerous manufacturers. IMO, that tells me something about the sliding vs pivoting methods of expanding the width of a blower or plow.
> 
> Not saying they aren't decent, just that there is a lot of potential for property and/or equipment damage. And how much time is saved compared to lost if/when the operator does hook something and renders the blower unusable for the rest of the night.


The hinged wing backblades have a couple fusible links. The main one being the pin and the other is the hinge itself. With a sliding system there doesnt seem to be one or its definitely an expensive one like the 3 point. 

But there are large Canadian snow companies that swear by the sliding system for front mounted blades on their tractors and have used them for years.


----------



## WIPensFan

Landgreen said:


> Heres another video showing detail of slide function
> 
> The audio is in Quebekian...


Yeah that's a really good video showing it better. Looks pretty darn heavily built to me. The only thing I understood was that it has flexible orange plow guides.:canadaflag:
Looks like a great piece of equipment, but I'm sure you have to be wealthy to own the setup.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> The hinged wing backblades have a couple fusible links. The main one being the pin and the other is the hinge itself. With a sliding system there doesnt seem to be one or its definitely an expensive one like the 3 point.
> 
> But there are large Canadian snow companies that swear by the sliding system for front mounted blades on their tractors and have used them for years.


Key point being "front". Not much different than a Blizzard/Snowex/XLS/Wipeout.


----------



## jonniesmooth

Mark Oomkes said:


> There's a guy around here with a blue tractor (explains everything) that is plowing commercial lots with just a backblade.
> 
> I don't hate myself that much.


I scraped that lot the other morning with the back blade flipped around to push at an angle.
It was only 8-10 passes. That's enough.


----------



## Landgreen

I'm really tempted to order one but feel like a year from now I'm gonna have some giant thread posted similar to first year tornado, boss backblade, Ford trans snap ring excrement show.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Landgreen said:


> Anybody have any info on the new Bilodeau extendable blowers?
> 
> The SE2500 extends from 92 to 144. Price tag is about $6-7k more than their normal 92 inverse. But 12' is some serious production.
> 
> Worried about snagging a curb, rock etc and tweaking it. I've heard the push box extensions of similar design have done that.


From my experience with my Normand N100 HYB, this blower is listed at #2256 lbs, and this blower is tail heavy. Even on the 6115M (100 pto hp) with 6 front weights and the loader brackets it's still not enough weight, the tractor could use a full rack of weights or load the front tires. In deep snow at times the 6115M is a bit under powered with the blower trying to clear municiple sidewalks when exiting the drives.

IMO if you did want to try a Bilodeau SE2500, the blower is listed at #2350 lbs, with that blower extended your gonna want a series tractor hooked onto it. I nearly purchased a JD 6140M 24 speed back in September to go with the N100. My last two blowers I've purchased have been 92" HYB's.

I did see a recent tiktok video of the fully extended Bilodeau, with an experienced operator and the tractor it was on was a 6145R.


----------



## Landgreen

3pt on our 5085 broke on Sunday. Right side arm dropped after hitting a bump roading it according to operator. Nursed it back to shop with minimal sparkage with right side dragging. Dealer tech stopped by yesterday and found that the splines in the 3pt arm that attach to rock shaft were stripped. Said he's never seen anything like it. Should be fixed today.

This is our first 3pt breakage but makes me wonder if I should order m series next time with the beefy external cylinders.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

The internal part is good yet?

Had one do that. Not really a fan of the E Series.


----------



## m_ice

For those of you guys used to large snow fall amount and inverteds at what point would you hit drives? We are projected to be between 12-19" with a break in the middle. Obviously slower, but would a hybrid normand handle 6-10" of snow at slower speeds?


----------



## BUFF

Landgreen said:


> 3pt on our 5085 broke on Sunday. Right side arm dropped after hitting a bump roading it according to operator. Nursed it back to shop with minimal sparkage with right side dragging. Dealer tech stopped by yesterday and found that the splines in the 3pt arm that attach to rock shaft were stripped. Said he's never seen anything like it. Should be fixed today.
> 
> This is our first 3pt breakage but makes me wonder if I should order m series next time with the beefy external cylinders.
> 
> View attachment 232881


At least the cheaper part failed and a quick fix providing they stock parts


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> The internal part is good yet?
> 
> Had one do that. Not really a fan of the E Series.


Tech said the splines are still square on the rock shaft.

Was that your only 3pt failure or were there others? I just ordered another E series last Fri but may upgrade to M


----------



## BUFF

Landgreen said:


> Tech said the splines are still square on the rock shaft.
> 
> Was that your only 3pt failure or were there others? I just ordered another E series last Fri but may upgrade to M


"M"


----------



## Landgreen

m_ice said:


> For those of you guys used to large snow fall amount and inverteds at what point would you hit drives? We are projected to be between 12-19" with a break in the middle. Obviously slower, but would a hybrid normand handle 6-10" of snow at slower speeds?


I would start the route once triggered and only stop if conditions weren't safe or need to sleep. We have never had a problem with snow depth with our tractors. Theyll go through about anything. Just gear down. We can't use the economy pto when snow gets deep or heavy wet.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Tech said the splines are still square on the rock shaft.
> 
> Was that your only 3pt failure or were there others? I just ordered another E series last Fri but may upgrade to M


Wow...that's MP money.

There's been others, but it was mostly related to not having accumulators. Although I did just have a rockshaft control valve replaced, it was leaking internally causing the blower to bounce. That wasn't cheap.


----------



## m_ice

Landgreen said:


> I would start the route once triggered and only stop if conditions weren't safe or need to sleep. We have never had a problem with snow depth with our tractors. Theyll go through about anything. Just gear down. We can't use the economy pto when snow gets deep or heavy wet.


It's supposed to be a 2" trigger so that will be the plan


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Wow...that's MP money.


Not really. The R series is the MP money. Wish I could justify. Or the 6 series...

It's due to show up late September lol


Mark Oomkes said:


> There's been others, but it was mostly related to not having accumulators. Although I did just have a rockshaft control valve replaced, it was leaking internally causing the blower to bounce. That wasn't cheap.


What would be ideal is an auto shutoff on the drop speed valve. For roading it would eliminate damage from the bouncing with the valve all the way closed.


----------



## Landgreen

m_ice said:


> It's supposed to be a 2" trigger so that will be the plan


Good luck out there. Hopefully most of your work will be at night.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Kinda looking around for a used 6115M or something in that range. 

I was going to keep my Kubota, put a blower on that instead of the plows but I looked at the repair costs over the years. Time for it go down the road.


----------



## jonniesmooth

Gas went from $3.09 this morning to $3.24 this afternoon. 
You know, the thing and that guy.
Go!


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Kinda looking around for a used 6115M or something in that range.
> 
> I was going to keep my Kubota, put a blower on that instead of the plows but I looked at the repair costs over the years. Time for it go down the road.


 I'm in the market for a backup tractor if you ever decide to sell it.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I'll keep it in mind.


----------



## Mountain Bob

jonniesmooth said:


> Gas went from $3.09 this morning to $3.24 this afternoon.
> You know, the thing and that guy.
> Go!


$3.40 here, just spent $150.


----------



## jonniesmooth

Mountain Bob said:


> $3.40 here, just spent $150.


I thought I was in the random thoughts thread.


----------



## Mountain Bob

jonniesmooth said:


> I thought I was in the random thoughts thread.


Don't worry,if we don't hijack it, mark or hydro will-----


----------



## jato

m_ice said:


> It's supposed to be a 2" trigger so that will be the plan


Our trigger is 2" but we are residential only, so it's not as important for us to stay ahead of the storm. We are waiting until tomorrow afternoon when snow hits at least 3-5" to go out the first time. Hopefully while we are out between 4-10pm the bulk of the snow will have fallen. Then our drivers are gonna go home and rest, planning to do the routes again about 24hrs later, Thursday evening. It looks like less snow will fall Thurs (12am-2pm) than on Wed morn/afternoon. Possibly a lot less on Thursday, like only 2" more accumulating for us. But who knows.
If the city plows are slow as heck, we will probably do a short run on Friday afternoon to clear the ridge.

Last storm, it was 3 full days before side streets in neighborhoods got plowed. By that time the 4" snowfall had gotten packed down by cars and burned off to the point where the plows weren't even pushing much to the side at all.
It's incredible what people put up with from the city, like 6" of snow on their street just sitting there for a full day... but they call us to complain about a dusting on their driveway.


----------



## m_ice

jato said:


> It's incredible what people put up with from the city, like 6" of snow on their street just sitting there for a full day... but they call us to complain about a dusting on their driveway.


Lol...You're right it is unbelievable


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Anyone using slip clutches on the driveshafts for the blowers? 

Is there a reason they won't work on these blowers? 

It would be nice to eliminate one shear bolt.


----------



## jato

Mark Oomkes said:


> Anyone using slip clutches on the driveshafts for the blowers?
> 
> Is there a reason they won't work on these blowers?
> 
> It would be nice to eliminate one shear bolt.


I think someone posted something like this on the united snow pros facebook group recently. I can't remember the exact replies. I think the reason someone wanted it, was to avoid breaking shear bolts. Wouldn't taking out a shear bolt risk the engine if you got something stuck in the blower?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Not sure what you're asking....a slip clutch replaces a shear bolt system. They both protect the transmission, not the engine.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Anyone using slip clutches on the driveshafts for the blowers?
> 
> Is there a reason they won't work on these blowers?
> 
> It would be nice to eliminate one shear bolt.


 What I read is that by the time you noticed the clutch slipping it would overheat and damage it. Slip clutches are designed for situations like bush hogging where you run over a stump and momentarily stops the blade but then after passing over it continues. With a blower it's stopped completely. It's not gonna continue spinning until the object is removed.

The amount of shear pins we use depends on the route. There's a few driveways with field stone bordering a portion of it that we always get into. Same route and operator. I sheared a couple on some piles of leaves early on this year.. Big mess. Other than that we normally break very few.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I figured there was a reason just wasn't sure what it was. 

Last week was the first high moisture snow we've really had so we went through quite a few.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> I figured there was a reason just wasn't sure what it was.
> 
> Last week was the first high moisture snow we've really had so we went through quite a few.


Were they breaking when engaging pto after backblading?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Were they breaking when engaging pto after backblading?


No idea, 1 experienced operator and 1 that just started this season.

It does seem like the hybrids have fewer clogs and broken shear bolts than the original style.


----------



## jonniesmooth

I blew back piles at home on Sunday, about 5 hours, with the new Frontier blower,worked well no shear pins lost.
I did have to tension the chain when I was done.
Have about 15 hours on it now broke my first shear pin yesterday morning trying to widen the approach at the shop. Lots of ice in that crap. I'm going to put the bucket on to fluff it up a bit beforehand the next attempt.


----------



## jato

Is there a Normand dealer in the US midwest? I'm trying to price up 1-2 new 74 or 82 inverted blowers.

And have any of you decided to use 74" instead of 80" or 82" inverted blowers? A 2-car driveway can't be cleared in 2 passes with an 80" anyway. So I'm thinking why not go 74"? It would save weight and money and would be more maneuverable. And the tractor would have power to spare. Am I looking at this wrong?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Not a bad thought. But we only use 92". I would like a 100" though.

Check with Burnips Equipment. I think they are the dealer for Meatchicken.


----------



## m_ice

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not a bad thought. But we only use 92". I would like a 100" though.
> 
> Check with Burnips Equipment. I think they are the dealer for Meatchicken.


Burnips near suck bent indiantucky is where I got mine


----------



## jato

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not a bad thought. But we only use 92". I would like a 100" though.
> 
> Check with Burnips Equipment. I think they are the dealer for Meatchicken.





m_ice said:


> Burnips near suck bent indiantucky is where I got mine


Right on thx guys


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Check with Burnips Equipment. I think they are the dealer for Meatchicken.


Where have you been getting your parts? I tried Burnips and they never got back with me.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Where have you been getting your parts? I tried Burnips and they never got back with me.


https://www.invertedsnowblowers.com/parts-store
They told me they were working on getting parts in stock, in the meantime order from these folks. I think they're the distributor for Normand now. Or their other company is.


----------



## BUFF

Landgreen said:


> Where have you been getting your parts? I tried Burnips and they never got back with me.


Drop Marks name and they'll fix ewe up good.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> https://www.invertedsnowblowers.com/parts-store
> They told me they were working on getting parts in stock, in the meantime order from these folks. I think they're the distributor for Normand now. Or their other company is.


I talked them a while back. I think they only carry maintenance type parts. I'll try again.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> I talked them a while back. I think they only carry maintenance type parts. I'll try again.


What are you looking for?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Drop Marks name and they'll fix ewe up good.


List +20%...


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> What are you looking for?


I wanted to keep in stock a spare idler gear, pto ujoints, bearings.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Bearings look like you could get at NAPA or something, aren't they?

After blowing out a u-joint on one a couple weeks ago (silly me, I was under the impression that when you grease the u-joints, you actually check to make sure they're tight-added that to the checklist) I had them repair the broken one and make up a spare shaft. If we blow another one, we can just pop the broken shaft off and put the other on. Fortunately, I have a backup blower so we just swapped blowers. Still lost the better part of 2 hours of production time.

Now that one has a couple years on it, I probably should have a few more spare parts on hand.


----------



## Landgreen

I assumed bearings were weird metric like what is in the gear idler. I took that to our local bearing shop and they gave up trying to find one. The ujoints are a strange one too. Valley didnt have any. I plan on doing what you did and in the off season take pto shaft to them and make one assuming it's less than the $924 and shipping that is on the dealer site you linked to.

Spare blower is needed too!


----------



## Landgreen

The chute hyd motor nearly fell off yesterday morning on the hybrid. The bolts that hold the hyd motor to the plate (not plate to blower) fell out except for one. I figured for sure they would be metric. Nope. Murican all the way.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> The chute hyd motor nearly fell off yesterday morning on the hybrid. The bolts that hold the hyd motor to the plate (not plate to blower) fell out except for one. I figured for sure they would be metric. Nope. Murican all the way.


Yup, noticed just like everything else they're half normal and half wrong.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> I assumed bearings were weird metric like what is in the gear idler. I took that to our local bearing shop and they gave up trying to find one. The ujoints are a strange one too. Valley didnt have any. I plan on doing what you did and in the off season take pto shaft to them and make one assuming it's less than the $924 and shipping that is on the dealer site you linked to.
> 
> Spare blower is needed too!


Huizinga has been doing ours. Same company that had the video of the drunk Dukes of Hazzard guy.

Guess I better start looking around.

Trying to remember, didn't Metal Pless buy Normand? Maybe Paul could give a recommendation.


----------



## m_ice

Mark Oomkes said:


> Huizinga has been doing ours. Same company that had the video of the drunk Dukes of Hazzard guy.
> 
> Guess I better start looking around.
> 
> Trying to remember, didn't Metal Pless buy Normand? Maybe Paul could give a recommendation.


So you mean to tell me I have a MP blower???


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yup, noticed just like everything else they're half normal and half wrong.


They made by Artic Cat?


----------



## Ice-sage

@jato

My reccomendation is to try a Pronovost PXPL Pro. Best of both worlds.

Seems like a lot more issues are starting to arrise and be brought to the front with the Normands and hybrids.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ice-sage said:


> @jato
> 
> My reccomendation is to try a Pronovost PXPL Pro. Best of both worlds.
> 
> Seems like a lot more issues are starting to arrise and be brought to the front with the Normands and hybrids.


LOL, I had a Pronovost inverted blower. Biggest POS snowblower I've owned.

I've related the story more than once, but caught a manhole with it, did close to $2,000 damage to it. Same operator that had been doing that route previously with a Normand.

Moved the Normand to that route after that debacle and never had another problem.

Caught another manhole with it and did $600 or $700 damage to it. Bolts loosen up on them. They plug faster.

The Normands are much heavier duty. The hybrids are even better with fewer problems than the originals.

You obviously have no first hand experience with anything but the PXPLs. And maybe those are decent blowers as I don't have any experience with that model, but the inverted models are flaming pieces of ****.

I do seem to recall one or two members not being to fond of the PXPL for drives though. I don't remember the exact issues, but I know they have been discussed.


----------



## Ajlawn1

m_ice said:


> Burnips near suck bent indiantucky is where I got mine


Hopefully that's the one and only you get...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

https://www.plowsite.com/search/479036/?q=pxpl&c[users]=blowerman&o=relevance
These are from just @blowerman .

I don't know if there were others.

A few comments by him is that his broke more than once. From normal usage.


----------



## m_ice

Ajlawn1 said:


> Hopefully that's the one and only you get...


Yeah the people in the area...


----------



## Landgreen

Ice-sage said:


> We get it already. You like to bash everyone else who isn't using the equipment you approve of only. But when you do tell the truth about the issues with only what you're using, by god holy he!! don't let anyone else have a say or opinion.


Does bashing equal slander? Maybe you should sue him.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Does bashing equal slander? Maybe you should sue him.


Maybe I should sue him...he hurt my feelings.


----------



## Ice-sage

Landgreen said:


> Does bashing equal slander? Maybe you should sue him.


Hope all goes well with your association/HOA debacle.


----------



## jato

Mark Oomkes said:


> The Normands are much heavier duty. The hybrids are even better with fewer problems than the originals.
> 
> @jato





Ice-sage said:


> My reccomendation is to try a Pronovost PXPL Pro. Best of both worlds.


I like the idea of having the blower in front. We get complaints about tractor tires packing down the snow. But I can't tell if a PXPL would be easier or harder to train a new operator on. That would free up the back of the tractor for a tank and spray boom...

Is there less bouncing with a blower on the front instead of the back?

I talked to TNA today and they mentioned Bilodeau.
Anybody like Bilodeau for inverted or bidirectional blowers?


----------



## m_ice

jato said:


> I like the idea of having the blower in front. We get complaints about tractor tires packing down the snow. But I can't tell if a PXPL would be easier or harder to train a new operator on. That would free up the back of the tractor for a tank and spray boom...
> 
> Is there less bouncing with a blower on the front instead of the back?
> 
> I talked to TNA today and they mentioned Bilodeau.
> Anybody like Bilodeau for inverted or bidirectional blowers?


I talked to Steve about bilidou but went with normad


----------



## Ice-sage

jato said:


> I like the idea of having the blower in front. We get complaints about tractor tires packing down the snow. But I can't tell if a PXPL would be easier or harder to train a new operator on. That would free up the back of the tractor for a tank and spray boom...
> 
> Is there less bouncing with a blower on the front instead of the back?
> 
> I talked to TNA today and they mentioned Bilodeau.
> Anybody like Bilodeau for inverted or bidirectional blowers?


@jato

Much easier to train an operator on a front mounted implement of any kind. Especially a snow blower. Blow going in the driveway and easy as pie backing and pulling out of the driveway. I will reiterate again the wear and tear on the spinal column and back and neck muscles is much less doing it this way.

I will agree with leaving the back side of a tractor or something like we use, Holder tractors, open to put whatever you want on them.

The bouncing part depends. What most think here on PS a 4 wheel farm tractor is, will bounce like a rabid rabbit with front or rear snow blowers on them unless one adds an aftermarket piece of equipment called a hydraulic accumulator. Usually the bounce happens at higher speeds. But that is the point going from driveway or property to the next. You need the speed to be efficient. The Holders don't really bounce because they have a super low center of gravity and are not of the regular type of 4 wheel tractor most people know. More of a up/down wiggle sort of. Not withstanding a good operator, the Holders can get squirrely just like a big tractor if the operator doesn't know what they are doing. Plus the Holders will travel pert near 30mph all day long(depending on model).

For reference we tried a Pronovost inverted one way back blower and a Normand. Once we tried the Pronovost PXPL Pro bi-directional inverted we never looked back.

Been a bit of talk on the Biledeau blowers but very little feedback or just anecdotal evidence.

Remember with any of these types of snow blowers there is no substitute for horsepower, torque and pto speed. Most videos you will find it sure seems a lot of inverted blower tractors used are quite underpowered. A huge mistake to make when using an inverted or hybrid blower and expecting efficient fast snow renoval.


----------



## Ice-sage

A lot of videos of the Pronovost PXPL.


----------



## Ice-sage

Some with the Normand. Not many videos out with the Normand inverted bi-directional.


----------



## m_ice

The thing I noticed with the deere 4052 vid is that when it's front mounted you have to use the backdrag bar otherwise you get a bunch of build up in front of you


----------



## jonniesmooth

m_ice said:


> The thing I noticed with the deere 4052 vid is that when it's front mounted you have to use the backdrag bar otherwise you get a bunch of build up in front of you


Yeah,that's the downside of any blower.
It always leaves some snow, unless you can run every pass into a bank. 
With our small tractors,we blow our way in,get as close to the doors as we can,that varies by account.
Then turn around,tractor is small,can do 360's in double drives with ease.
Pull back away from doors,try to get it into a pile so we can turn around again and make 2-3 passes out to the street and turn into the bank near the end.


----------



## m_ice

jonniesmooth said:


> Yeah,that's the downside of any blower.
> It always leaves some snow, unless you can run every pass into a bank.
> With our small tractors,we blow our way in,get as close to the doors as we can,that varies by account.
> Then turn around,tractor is small,can do 360's in double drives with ease.
> Pull back away from doors,try to get it into a pile so we can turn around again and make 2-3 passes out to the street and turn into the bank near the end.


That's the nice thing about the hybrid inverteds...you can get as close as you're comfortable getting with no pile


----------



## Ice-sage

A lot of it depends on the machine and operator using the bi-directional. You blow going forward in the driveway, even if you have a pile you drop the gate over the pile and that's all you drag out. A portion of the snow left inside the gate and front of the blower gets exhausted as well dragging in reverse.

The biggest plus to the bi-directional inverted is a cleaner driveway and never having to drive over city plow piles in the ends of driveways. Another plus is you have a standard blower on front at all times. You can do a few more things with the front moving blower a heck of a lot easier than you can with just the inverted hybrid.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

jonniesmooth said:


> Yeah,that's the downside of any blower.
> It always leaves some snow, unless you can run every pass into a bank.
> With our small tractors,we blow our way in,get as close to the doors as we can,that varies by account.
> Then turn around,tractor is small,can do 360's in double drives with ease.
> Pull back away from doors,try to get it into a pile so we can turn around again and make 2-3 passes out to the street and turn into the bank near the end.


Wrong...hybrids do not leave any snow.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ice-sage said:


> A lot of videos of the Pronovost PXPL.


You talk about wear and tear on the neck due to backing up...if one drives straight into a drive doesn't one have to back out of the driveway?


----------



## SHAWZER

Smoke and Mirrors ........


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> You talk about wear and tear on the neck due to backing up...if one drives straight into a drive doesn't one have to back out of the driveway?


Use the mirrors, back up camera and accident avoidance detection sensors....


----------



## Landgreen

Ice-sage said:


> A lot of it depends on the machine and operator using the bi-directional. You blow going forward in the driveway, even if you have a pile you drop the gate over the pile and that's all you drag out. A portion of the snow left inside the gate and front of the blower gets exhausted as well dragging in reverse.
> 
> The biggest plus to the bi-directional inverted is a cleaner driveway and never having to drive over city plow piles in the ends of driveways. Another plus is you have a standard blower on front at all times. You can do a few more things with the front moving blower a heck of a lot easier than you can with just the inverted hybrid.


I wonder why the large resi snow removal companies in canada dont use all bidirectionals in their fleet? Seems its all hybrid inverted they use. Are they missing out?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

K


----------



## Ice-sage

Landgreen said:


> I wonder why the large resi snow removal companies in canada dont use all bidirectionals in their fleet? Seems its all hybrid inverted they use. Are they missing out?


To each their own. Those are purely profit generated companies at all cost.(think paul vanderzon(sp?) They use the cheapest 4 wheel tractors.(profit), and cheapest hybrid inverteds(profit). They can run their business anyway they like. We'll run ours the best way we can and we don't want 40 tractors in a fleet. Totally different business. Not sure why you would even say that as you are not them. And they are not us.


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc.

Ice-sage said:


> You debate alot like Billy.
> 
> Apparently you've never backed anything. We've went over this in this thread before.
> 
> See if I can eggsplain this in simpleton terms. As @BUFF noted you got mirrors and we have 10 inch screens that also have broadview backup camera live feed. You already did the hardest part of the job blowing forward. Backing up is the simplest part of the job. Almost never ever have to turn or crane your head or body going in reverse like you would always have to using a rear blower of any type. Also remember 90-95+% of the work shifts removing snow are after 10pm at night in our neck of the woods. Lucky us I guess. There is no traffic and no pedestrian traffic.
> 
> Geez, so many of you mock and make fun of the way we work smarter. You must hate yourselves and the help you use. Apparently ease of use and health of the "employee" or yourself generally never crosses your minds. Sorrowful.
> 
> Ya'll keep making work harder and unhealthy. I can't stop you. We'll do it the smarter more efficient way and worker health concious way. You do you.
> 
> I'm sharing our experiences what works for us. You can't just come in here and rain down hatred when you obviously don't know or use the products and go about it the way we do.
> And the one and only person in here that has, @Mark Oomkes, just bashes every machine or implement and process we use anyways. Take that for what it is worth.
> 
> I hate repeating, this site is for sharing information. Using others experiences to make your own calls. A few now in the last couple days just outright come out and harang the information being shared. Only one other poster has said they ever used the bi-directional. And none of you seem to understand the human body. Also propreoception is important when working these types of machines and implements.
> 
> Remember we did try the rear inverted blowers first with the tractors everyone else uses. Number one we hated having to drive over the snow. Drive over the city plow piles in the aprons of drives. Number two not quite ever getting the cleanest scrape and end product.(our clients pay for clean driveways). Number three is the body factor being neck and spine/back craned around the majority of the shift. Number four is the models of tractors everyone generally uses with any of these blowers are underpowered in the HP and torque and pto range and are much larger than a Holder tractor by far. Number five would be the difference in speed of certain machines and the power of them. Number six is the control sets in said machines.
> 
> Once we went with the bi-directional inverteds and 100+hp Holder's and mounted on the front, all of the issues I stated above went away.
> 
> No reward without risk. We risked buying the best machines and greatest implements for our work and people who use the machines and implements. Works geand for us. Wouldn't change a thing at the moment.


In terms of craning your neck, couldn't a camera serve the same function for a tractor with inverted blower?

And for all this talk about caring for the well being of your employees you then go and take them skiing on rocks! That joke was for hydro


----------



## SHAWZER

There is a company close to me that runs 5 of the older bi directionals and have 1 spare . They snowblow all residentials


----------



## Hydromaster

If you don't enjoy craning your neck to look behind you, don't become a groomer








If you back into someone, then say but,,, you were looking at the screen and u didn't see them may not be a valid defense.

sage, got any pics of your drives?


----------



## BUFF

Ice-sage said:


> Geez, so many of you mock and make fun of the way we work smarter. You must hate yourselves and the help you use. Apparently ease of use and health of the "employee" or yourself generally never crosses your minds. Sorrowful.
> 
> Ya'll keep making work harder and unhealthy. I can't stop you. We'll do it the smarter more efficient way and worker health concious way. You do you.
> 
> I'm sharing our experiences what works for us. You can't just come in here and rain down hatred when you obviously don't know or use the products and go about it the way we do.
> And the one and only person in here that has, @Mark Oomkes, just bashes every machine or implement and process we use anyways. Take that for what it is worth.


My only snow blower experience is with WBH, blowers on skid loaders and Ag tractors for personal use. So it's limited in comparison to using them on a route.
I will say @Ice-sage you seem to have a strong opinion about your rigs and methods same as the guys you basically called oot in your post. So looking at the posts face value your the same as the guys you called oot.


----------



## Ice-sage

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> In terms of craning your neck, couldn't a camera serve the same function for a tractor with inverted blower?
> 
> And for all this talk about caring for the well being of your employees you then go and take them skiing on rocks! That joke was for hydro


It can and could. Maybe kind of like the birds eye top down view we can get in most trucks and suvs/cars these days if there was a working aftermarket system to do it.(maybe there is now?)

We did try using a broadview camera and a general 55mm view camera to see how it would work with the kubota tractor and rear inverted Pronovost and Normand we tried. It did work looking at a large screen but it still isn't as intuitive while backing up using your whole body and neck being turned and swiveled. Takes way longer to master for sure. In the end for our experiment it still wasn't as fast backing up using the body or would not provide enough time savings or operator physio benefits.

That's the most dangerous part. Getting the blower very close to a garage door or other immobile thing and dropping the implement or blowing up to it and dropping the bi-directional gate.

It is just way easier to blow forward already doing 98% of the work, than dropping the gate on the blower and zipping backwards giving that final scrape clearing with very little to worry about.

One of the biggest selling factors using the Holder 992's and now S130's is the tractors are very small and narrow with a ton of horespower and torque and pto plus hydraulic capabilities. Super easy control sets. One pedal driving, a steering wheel and a fantastic joystick that does everything. Low to the ground. Perfect uninterrupted view of the implement right in front of you. It just makes the experience and work a lot more enjoyable. The youngest folks on the team equate it to playing a video game their entire shift. It is fun to them. That is a great analogy.

To your second paragraph about skiing and health. I know it was a Hydro thing. Crews and businesses that play together stay together. We have the same likes and drive for enjoyment, fitness and fun. Same with our respective significant others.

I have not seen one post or thread here on plowsite mentioning or doing what we do as a business or outside of business. I think that says a lot of what we accomplish as a team together. The hired help are not just laborers, they are best friends. Family and community if you will. They know all of our efforts combined will make life for all of us easier and more enjoyable. It is a career they can count on to go the distance and "retire" from. We share in the financial benefits of the company. We learn together to "invest" and control our future endeavors.

One thing is certain, I have worked for numerous other labor class companies. What I learned and took away from those experiences is what led me to risk starting something completely outside the box from what businesses today do. I'd like to pretty much guarantee if more companies would try something different like we did, small businesses today would still have the power to do well and survive anything. Humanity would more than likely be in a much better position in the scope of labor markets today and going forward as well.

Nobody in the back of their mind wants to be just a number, an "employee", a slave or a disposible "human resource". Be happy. Have fun. Get er' done. The chips will fall into place.


----------



## Landgreen

Ice-sage said:


> To each their own. Those are purely profit generated companies at all cost.


Is your business organized as a charity? 


Ice-sage said:


> (think paul vanderzon(sp?)


Wrong. He is no longer in the snowblowing business. I believe his brother operates it.


Ice-sage said:


> They use the cheapest 4 wheel tractors.(profit), and cheapest hybrid inverteds(profit).


Wrong again. Kubotas and normand blowers are certainly not the cheapest nor the most expensive. 


Ice-sage said:


> They can run their business anyway they like.


I'm sure the Vanderzons are thankful that they have your blessing.


Ice-sage said:


> We'll run ours the best way we can and we don't want 40 tractors in a fleet.


Why not? 


Ice-sage said:


> Totally different business. Not sure why you would even say that as you are not them.


If you read this entire thread you would understand how Vanderzon and others revolutionized the way in which residential snow removal is done. And has shared his knowledge with others in an extremely generous fashion. It takes some very large cojones to insult him on this very thread saying that he did not care about his employees and has some sort of thuggish, profit at all costs, Mr Burns style of ownership.


----------



## Ice-sage

BUFF said:


> I will say @Ice-sage you seem to have a strong opinion about your rigs and methods same as the guys you basically called oot in your post. So looking at the posts face value your the same as the guys you called oot.


Maybe more of a passion way to look at it.

I don't roll in here on plowsite and immediate say an implement or machine is trash and an absolute piece of sh!t. Then berate the author endlessly for their experiences with the products that work for us.

Yup I do have my dislikes for the hybrids and straight inverted rear blowers. Did I ever say they were pieces of sh!t and don't use them? Nope. If the hybrids and regular inverted rear blowers were all that was on the market, we would be using them no doubt.

With regards to the tractors? We would still have gone to the Holders or something similar and mounted those blowers on the front.

An example would be this Connor fella. He has good intentions overall. One manufacturer narrow vison he does have. And he isn't in this business. But, I know a gentleman that uses an old Walter that does county and country areas with it and that machine spanks the living daylights out of a road grader or municiple rig for the same purposes. The Walter ia still the best tool for the job in his area hands down. The gentleman is passionate about his rig. He makes the local papers every winter with it. The municiple guys know the graders and cubic yard dumpers they use can't keep up with the Walter.

Seems to be the best tool for the job. Does not mean it's a piece of trash and to huff and puff on it or the user. Has anyone here on plowsite used a Walter, or Holder tractor with the implements we do? I know of one guy who visits here besides us who uses Holder tractors. I don't think he uses any type of inverted blowers. He rags on the maintenence issues with them(which are very few), which we have had zero issues to date with. -(Also let me point out again the thousands of threads and hundred thousand plus posts of never ending issues with Ford, Dodge/Ram and Chevy. Not to mention all the implements used and their myriad of never ending maintenence problems.....I'll digress.)-And then he still admits they are the best tool they have found to do the work they provide.

Our city uses the trackless/prinroth machines for municiple sidewalks and paths. We've side by side ran our machines up against one another. We found better front blowers(Zaugg) than they use. And better brooms and a plow(AebiSchmidt). We out do them everytime and leave a much much more acceptable end finish. Have fun. Make friends. Get er' done!

All sorts of manufacturers out there. Use what you want. I am here sharing our experiences with our business descisions. Just like everybody else here contributes.


----------



## Ice-sage

Landgreen said:


> Is your business organized as a charity?
> 
> Wrong. He is no longer in the snowblowing business. I believe his brother operates it.
> 
> Wrong again. Kubotas and normand blowers are certainly not the cheapest nor the most expensive.
> 
> I'm sure the Vanderzons are thankful that they have your blessing.
> 
> Why not?
> 
> If you read this entire thread you would understand how Vanderzon and others revolutionized the way in which residential snow removal is done. And has shared his knowledge with others in an extremely generous fashion. It takes some very large cojones to insult him on this very thread saying that he did not care about his employees and has some sort of thuggish, profit at all costs, Mr Burns style of ownership.


I am sorry you take my honesty and facts the way you do.

You are more or less trying to equate my company with his. Completely different ballparks my friend.

How about a "non-profit"?

I never said anything about him being or running his business at the present time. I don't waste my brainspace thinking about him 24/7 or ever. He showed his true colors enough times in this thread and directly to me. And he espoused lies about the human body and health.

I know. We've had a Kubota and Pronovost and Normands. The regular inverteds and hybrids are quite a bit cheaper. The hybrids should be they are way less complex. Almost too simple for what they charge for them.

Blessings?? What the?? Today I see alot of people using this wierd term. Do you have PVDS?

Why not what?

Sorry. PV is not my god. Nor do I idolize manufacrurers. I and we all already pay our dues to them by using their products. I am unsure why you think putting another human being up on a pedestal for their witten communication on a dead website should make others bow and kneel to them like a god or a dictator. But you are entitled to your own opinion and thinking. And everything else I opined is from his(PV) very own posts in this entire thread(yes I've read it in its entirety) and others.

Wierd, ever since I actually replied to one of your posts with a problem you were having, with my thoughts on what I would do, now you've went 360° degrees and just trash and go off and berate everything I say or do. I did give you back a one sentence a taste of your own medicine. And here you are going full bore on me. I genuinally hope you are okay. This isn't a place to take out your anger and frustration on others just trying to help or give advice and facts or opinions.

Have a great weekend Landgreen!


----------



## BossPlow2010

I think a few of you guys should really consider blocking each other.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> View attachment 235428
> 
> 
> I think a few of you guys should really consider blocking each other.


If my reply to @Ice-sage was deleted, his reply to me should be.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> View attachment 235428
> 
> 
> I think a few of you guys should really consider blocking each other.


And show me what was wrong about my reply.


----------



## BossPlow2010

Mark Oomkes said:


> And show me what was wrong about my reply.


It was confrontational, I get it it's the internet, and thick skin is a a requirement. I've deleted several of his, edited his really long one.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> It was confrontational, I get it it's the internet, and thick skin is a a requirement. I've deleted several of his, edited his really long one.


And?

His is confrontational. No less than mine.


----------



## BossPlow2010

Mark Oomkes said:


> And?
> 
> His is confrontational. No less than mine.


Agreed!
That's why it was edited and the other deleted.


----------



## jato

Ice-sage said:


> As @BUFF noted you got mirrors and we have 10 inch screens that also have broadview backup camera live feed. You for us. Wouldn't change a thing at the moment.


Thanks for this info. A few questions...
Do you buy the holders new?
How wide are the bidirectional blowers you use? I have only seen holders with 48" blowers online. 
Until routes are very tight with at least 120 driveways on each, I don't see Holders as anywhere near affordable. And in my area there is no dealer, no service for them. Nearest is in Ohio I think.



Ice-sage said:


> To each their own. Those are purely profit generated companies at all cost.(think paul vanderzon(sp?) They use the cheapest 4 wheel tractors.(profit), and cheapest hybrid inverteds(profit).


Is the goal to make the job easier for the worker, even despite increased costs? I don't have the ability to do that because the business is so small. I think driving a tractor with hydro trans is insanely easy and comfortable, especially for the pay we offer

But anyway, what do you do with a front mounted blower when a driveway is in a tight downtown area, with no place to put the snow in the side or back yards? Pulling it forward with an inverted seems the best option because there's always room along the street.

But driving over the snow sucks, and I am annoyed enough about it to consider getting at least one front facing blower for next year. But it would need to be at least 72-74" wide.

I think those huge companies with dozens of tractors are buying exactly the amount of machine and blower they need. It makes no sense to over spend unless the bigger machine can do more revenue. Those little tractors cost half as much as a holder but they are maneuverable enough to function in small apartment complexes.

To me, the main benefits of a Holder, over a 60HP compact tractor, seem to be height, transport speed, and the narrower tread width. I have never driven one so I can't speak to the comfort level. If they are totally bomb-proof and require less maintenance that sounds great to me. But I'm not sure I can be okay with monthly payments at $2000 for a single machine. That is about double what we are paying for the 2 used tractors we have now.


----------



## jato

Ice-sage said:


> A lot of videos of the Pronovost PXPL.


I see how fast these are, but it still looks like a separate shovel crew needs to clear near the garage door. When blower is behind the tractor you're looking down at a steep angle and you can really see how close you're getting. 
Would you say it's just as easy to gauge distance with the blower in front? Assume it's a conventional tractor with an engine to see over, rather than a holder.


----------



## Ice-sage

@jato

Give me a bit to answer you queries fully. A lot to go over.

Here is a quick yootoob video with a Holder and a regular inverted Pronovost blower on the front of it. I think it's an 80 or 82 inch blower. Out of Canada. Now the operator is not super skilled whatsoever(probably their installer or mechanic) but you can get the jist of the machine and implement very well. Just substitute a Pronovost PXPL Pro or Normand bi-directional inverteds on the front of it.






I can't post our video and pics online because of copyright and trademark fraud all the big corps and media corps have, and are implementing into their TOS, RULES, COPYRIGHT, TRADEMARK and their implied contracts. Pretty unsettling if you ask me. They are all taking a page out of the worlds largest purveyor(or in cahoots with) of images and video, a company called Getty.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

So let me try to understand. For the price of 1 Holder and bi-directional, I can get 2 utility tractors with hybrid blowers?

And then I need to outfit the Holder with hi-def, wide angle backup cameras with Dobly surround sound? 

Plus send someone to Holder school to learn how to service and repair them?

Did I miss anything?


----------



## Hydromaster

Mark Oomkes said:


> So let me try to understand. For the price of 1 Holder and bi-directional, I can get 2 utility tractors with hybrid blowers?
> 
> And then I need to outfit the Holder with hi-def, wide angle backup cameras with Dobly surround sound?
> 
> Plus send someone to Holder school to learn how to service and repair them?
> 
> Did I miss anything?


Yes,
That even the text you posted here is not yours.


----------



## Mountain Bob

"I can't post our video and pics online because of copyright and trademark fraud"

Well that made me spit my coffee. Now gotta clean the keyboard.


----------



## SHAWZER

Some people are still drinking coffee ?


----------



## Landgreen

Ice-sage said:


> An example would be this Connor fella. He has good intentions overall. One manufacturer narrow vison he does have. And he isn't in this business. But, I know a gentleman that uses an old Walter that does county and country areas with it and that machine spanks the living daylights out of a road grader or municiple rig for the same purposes. The Walter ia still the best tool for the job in his area hands down. The gentleman is passionate about his rig. He makes the local papers every winter with it. The municiple guys know the graders and cubic yard dumpers they use can't keep up with the Walter.
> .


Who is Connor? Sounds like a great guy. Can you provide a link to these newspaper articles so we can learn more about his business? Sounds like a success story to me.


----------



## SHAWZER

My 7 foot Mckee blower on my small JD Loader


----------



## SHAWZER




----------



## SHAWZER

Wisconsin 65 hp engine , purrs like a kitten . Seems to have enough power to chew through hard banks . Deserves a paint job this summer .


----------



## Landgreen

SHAWZER said:


> Wisconsin 65 hp engine , purrs like a kitten . Seems to have enough power to chew through hard banks . Deserves a paint job this summer .


We had a Mckee that was used for blowing back banks. Tough old girl. We really beat on it.


----------



## BUFF

SHAWZER said:


> My 7 foot Mckee blower on my small JD Loader
> View attachment 236304


Cousin in Wyo "moonlights" for for a sub that has a contract with Pacific Corp running a blower on the wind turbine roads (aboot 30miles) on his dads ranch. Think the blower has a 300hp Cat, he says it'll chew through 6' at full width with ease.


----------



## Landgreen

We have a set of Nokian TRI 2's on our JD5100. In the process of ordering our next tractor I was made aware of the the Nokian Hakkapalliita TRI. They are a single purpose type winter tire. Softer compound and siped. Not sure how I missed out on these. Anyone run them? I thought Nokians were Nokians.


----------



## SHAWZER

Town here has the smallest RPM Tec blower that they make . 120 hp and about 5600 lbs . 

Not sure why but they use it on the front of the backhoe instead of the JD 544 .


----------



## jato

Ice-sage said:


> mplement very well. Just substitute a Pronovost PXPL Pro or Normand bi-directional inverteds on the front of it.


I see that. It looks like a cool machine but overpriced. Putting a wide blower on it takes away its use as a sidewalk machine. And the price and lack of available service are dealbreakers to me. I can buy 4 used tractors with 600-800 hours on them for the price of one new holder, right? I'm not saying I could find 4 good drivers, but still.

If the holder really can burn around town at 25+ mph that's pretty cool. At $80-90k brand new, that would be competitive with the tractor option I think, if it can run for 2000 hours guaranteed without any major problems. But I'm new to this and I don't have a great system for getting big money out of each machine yet. Maybe if I had a way for the holder to do 3 different jobs and also be useful in the summer, I'd feel differently.


----------



## Herm Witte

Landgreen said:


> I assumed bearings were weird metric like what is in the gear idler. I took that to our local bearing shop and they gave up trying to find one. The ujoints are a strange one too. Valley didnt have any. I plan on doing what you did and in the off season take pto shaft to them and make one assuming it's less than the $924 and shipping that is on the dealer site you linked to.
> 
> Spare blower is needed too!


We have found sprockets, chain, and u joints locally. State Supply for sprocket & chain. Pretty sure on u joint from Valley GR


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Herm Witte said:


> We have found sprockets, chain, and u joints locally. State Supply for sprocket & chain. Pretty sure on u joint from Valley GR


Have you tried getting bearings there?


----------



## m_ice

Any good bearing shop should be able to get bearing regardless if they are metric or not


----------



## Ice-sage

jato said:


> Thanks for this info. A few questions...
> Do you buy the holders new?
> How wide are the bidirectional blowers you use? I have only seen holders with 48" blowers online.
> Until routes are very tight with at least 120 driveways on each, I don't see Holders as anywhere near affordable. And in my area there is no dealer, no service for them. Nearest is in Ohio I think.
> 
> Is the goal to make the job easier for the worker, even despite increased costs? I don't have the ability to do that because the business is so small. I think driving a tractor with hydro trans is insanely easy and comfortable, especially for the pay we offer


Yes we buy them brand new.

One 92 inch and the rest are 86 inch.

One machine can do 150, 2 vehicle width and 4 vehicle +length driveways in a 9-9.5 hour shift pretty easily upto about 10 inches of snow. Start adding time multipliers rapidly over 10 inches and up depending on the wetness of the snow. They blow cold powder snow like nothing though even at the highest we had at 18 inches. If you go out twice in lets say a 10 inch or higher storm with superb operators you can really fly through them even faster with density and route efficiency. Our fastest operator did 174 in a little over 9 hours and 41 minutes on an 8 inch 25° degree snow storm. He was trying to break our record though and had the perfect route set up. Most routes almost abut each other eventually around the city so faster operators or a route with less issues or traffic usually ends up joining anothers route so we all help each other to finish as expediently as we can.

I will reiterate this huge gorilla in the room again. Nothing ever beats horspower, torque and pto speed when it comes to running any of the inverteds, bi-directional inverteds or rear pull hybrids. And machine ground speed.

Yes tractors like Holders and Trackless and Avant and MultiOne/hogs are really exspensive. The manufacturers can't churn them out like Ford, Ram or Chevy trucks. Our closest Holder dealer is well over 100 miles away. We have a fulltime in house mechanic for all of our stuff from winter to summer maintenence.

Our setup and business model did not happen over night. It took well over 5 years to get to where we are now. But I had the vision of the processes and machines I knew could make it work from day one.

Absolutely finding the fastest most efficient machines and implements at all cost to make the hired helps(and mine) lives and workdays/shifts as easy as possible. This is a bigger factor than a great majority of winter maintenence companies tend to care about. Keeping the same hired help for an entire working career is one of the monumental goals of our business.

Continued....


----------



## Ice-sage

jato said:


> But anyway, what do you do with a front mounted blower when a driveway is in a tight downtown area, with no place to put the snow in the side or back yards? Pulling it forward with an inverted seems the best option because there's always room along the street.
> 
> But driving over the snow sucks, and I am annoyed enough about it to consider getting at least one front facing blower for next year. But it would need to be at least 72-74" wide.
> 
> I think those huge companies with dozens of tractors are buying exactly the amount of machine and blower they need. It makes no sense to over spend unless the bigger machine can do more revenue. Those little tractors cost half as much as a holder but they are maneuverable enough to function in small apartment complexes.
> 
> To me, the main benefits of a Holder, over a 60HP compact tractor, seem to be height, transport speed, and the narrower tread width. I have never driven one so I can't speak to the comfort level. If they are totally bomb-proof and require less maintenance that sounds great to me. But I'm not sure I can be okay with monthly payments at $2000 for a single machine. That is about double what we are paying for the 2 used tractors we have now.


Same principle. The bi-directional can blow going in a bit from the street than lift and drive to the garage doors or whatever and drop the gate and pull out or generally pull and blow out. No differemt than a hybrid. The chute can rotate 335° degrees left or right. You can literally blow beside the tractor or blow into the chamber if you want. You can also blow over the top and back of the machine if you must. It works this way quite well actually. More options than just the hybrid or standard inverted can accomplish.

Agreed as I stated before. If you must blow going in or if the city plow beats you to a property, the forward blowing is the most efficient way to go. Never having to drive over or pack down anything is worth its weight in gold. We charge higher rates for just this purpose. On bigger storms the city plows will bury the ends of driveways twice alot of the time as they will make passes about 3/4's of the way through a storm and then again after the snow stops. Two seasons ago we had 70 inches above average snowfall. On huge multi day storms the city plows has buried the aprons of drives in one entire storm amd afterwards a total of 5 seperate times. It was madness. But way easier with the front forward blower to go through the route multiple times just to re-clean the ends of driveways.

If we were to actually find dozens of operators and had something like 40 or 50 Holder S130's with bi-directional inverteds, we'd still go the route of the more exspensive machines and implements. Faster and producing more revenue. Easier to operate and better for the help.

Which leads me to your assesment in that same paragraph, the Holders are much smaller than even half the Horsepower equivalent John Deere or Kubota or New Holland tractors. The Holders and their equivalent type of specific friends(Avant, Multione/Hogs/Trackless) have a way more wicked turning radius capability. Huge factor there. Kind of like the Ventrac 4500 series. Reall good for tight places.

Crosses fingers as we have had no issues yet with the Holder 992's or the S130's or the X45'i's.

This business model isn't for everyone. A big enough city(probably 60,000 population and up) that isn't poor can garner this type of model well. It was all calculated risk. Can everyone do it? Absolutely not. It was all my own personal capitol at risk. My credit and my character. But I also knew if I failed, it all goes back into the gameboard box. Just like everything else in this world. Can't reap rewards without trying. And I wasn't about to let a decade of my life go to waste and did everything in my power to figure out how to get there as fast as possible.


----------



## Herm Witte

Mark Oomkes said:


> Have you tried getting bearings there?


We have not had the need to look for bearings. So I cant answer that.


----------



## jato

What scrapes better? A hybrid cyclone style with just a tivar edge on the back of the case, or a standard inverted that has a tivar edge for the blower and also a tivar edge on one of those back bars for clearing that final 10-12 inches behind the fan case?

I am hoping that upgrading to new blowers will get rid of the ice tracks we left behind in early and late season on almost every driveway this year. Which should I get? My instinct is to get the inverted with the additional back drag bar. Inv blowers are lighter than cyclones. And they seem burlier and seem to be able to sit closer to the tractor.
Thoughts?
Then the question is, does that bar need to be hydraulic w downforce?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Hybrid scrapes far better.

The drag bar doesn't scrape for crap. According to Paul, if you add down pressure you will decrease productivity a bunch. You also need another remote.


----------



## Landgreen

The only time we get a good scrape is when edges are new. That clean scrape doesnt last long. Rotating and swapping edges should be done more often but forget until heavy wet snow reminds us. 

Customers dont seem to mind. The ones that do are typically from low snow areas and not used to hardpack buildup now and then. 

Now that the hybrid solved the cleanup issue hoping the next generation will provide better scrape. HOA roadways suffer. Have to bring in a truck if they demand clean roads with no buildup.


----------



## jato

Mark Oomkes said:


> Hybrid scrapes far better.
> 
> The drag bar doesn't scrape for crap. According to Paul, if you add down pressure you will decrease productivity a bunch. You also need another remote.


Got it. Thx!


----------



## m_ice

Mark Oomkes said:


> This from a fella using a bi-directional blower and tractor...
> 
> View attachment 237748


Is this from BookFace?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

m_ice said:


> Is this from BookFace?


Yes


----------



## BossPlow2010

Probably best if you guys block each other, I don’t think there’s any issue with posting screenshots from other sites as long as they’re not inappropriate, as long as names are blurred.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> Probably best if you guys block each other, I don't think there's any issue with posting screenshots from other sites as long as they're not inappropriate, as long as names are blurred.


I'm not that techy.


----------



## snopushin ford

Landgreen said:


> We have a set of Nokian TRI 2's on our JD5100. In the process of ordering our next tractor I was made aware of the the Nokian Hakkapalliita TRI. They are a single purpose type winter tire. Softer compound and siped. Not sure how I missed out on these. Anyone run them? I thought Nokians were Nokians.


I have the TRI's on the rear of my tractor and they are amazing. I have the BKT version on the front. I almost ordered the TRI 2's but I saw the TRI a went for it. I have them on a 5093e


----------



## Landgreen

snopushin ford said:


> I have the TRI's on the rear of my tractor and they are amazing. I have the BKT version on the front. I almost ordered the TRI 2's but I saw the TRI a went for it. I have them on a 5093e


My dealer said they are the same price. Seems like a no brainer. I wish I knew about them before I ordered our other snow tires.

This week I was plowing our shop lot with our 5085 which has a 10' pushbox on the loader. It had the original R1's on it last time I plowed and it was frustrating to use especially trying to corner with full box. Now it has the Alliance 550's and what a difference. Totally different machine.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

It's like going from ice skates to suction cups.


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> It's like going from ice skates to suction cups.


Like going from a Dodge to a Ford.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Like going from a Dodge to a Ford.


You push your tractors?


----------



## Shady

I have a Kubota L6060 fuel consumption question. I am currently on pg 98 of this thread and edgeair stated he is seeing 1US gph (average). I’m curious if that’s what others are seeing? At 13.8 gal fuel tank that consumption should not be an issue however doing other research I’ve seen reports of 3 US gph consumption which would seem to be an issue as refueling would be needed. Thanks for any and all info on this Kubota L6060 question.


----------



## Fallon

Shady said:


> I have a Kubota L6060 fuel consumption question. I am currently on pg 98 of this thread and edgeair stated he is seeing 1US gph (average). I'm curious if that's what others are seeing? At 13.8 gal fuel tank that consumption should not be an issue however doing other research I've seen reports of 3 US gph consumption which would seem to be an issue as refueling would be needed. Thanks for any and all info on this Kubota L6060 question.


L4060 here, so same machine minus 20hp (a turbo) and a weaker front axle. I get a little over 1.5gph pushing it hard mowing. Pushing it hard blowing should be about the same. L6060 would be pushing towards 3gph territory. You tend not to push the machine as hard plowing or blowing, at least the work I do. Maybe 50% max load vs 90% of the time mowing.


----------



## Shady

Fallon said:


> L4060 here, so same machine minus 20hp (a turbo) and a weaker front axle. I get a little over 1.5gph pushing it hard mowing. Pushing it hard blowing should be about the same. L6060 would be pushing towards 3gph territory. You tend not to push the machine as hard plowing or blowing, at least the work I do. Maybe 50% max load vs 90% of the time mowing.


Thank you, I am currently trying to gain as much knowledge as possible about the process and tractors themselves. I was not sure how hard you are pushing the tractor while blowing. Our current route times with our trucks are 3-4hrs depending on conditions and if I was to add a tractor I would want to maintain that same route time. Refueling during a storm is something I would want to avoid if at all possible.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

So the majority of Deere 4066's around here running blowers have at least one fuel tank mounted on the tractor.

Trying to remember but I'm 99% sure our 4720 made it through an entire night on 1 tank. About 5 hours IIRC.

Guessing the emissions are the cause of more fuel usage.


----------



## Shady

Mark Oomkes said:


> So the majority of Deere 4066's around here running blowers have at least one fuel tank mounted on the tractor.
> 
> Trying to remember but I'm 99% sure our 4720 made it through an entire night on 1 tank. About 5 hours IIRC.
> 
> Guessing the emissions are the cause of more fuel usage.


Thanks Mark, the refueling thing will be a major obstacle for me as anything over 3 or 4" snowfall we are out more than 5 hours as the way we operate now anything over that amount of snow we would service our driveways at least 2 times. We roll at 2" now.


----------



## Shady

I’m sure I need to take a different approach to this service as the driveways I would be targeting are pretty flat and short and driving thru 4” should not be a problem. Maybe only service the tractor route driveways once on those 4” and under storms. So much to consider and learn as my existing route is already not the norm in these parts as most guys don’t see the benefit of seasonal pricing and a high level of service. Fortunately our customer base does.


----------



## kevinjd

Does anyone have any pointers on changing the scraper blade on the Normand n82 hybrid blower? What lifting points or maybe safely tipping it backward? All help would be appreciated.
Thanks,

Kevin


----------



## Mark Oomkes

We change the 92's while it is on the tractor. Couple jackstands for safety and use the 3 point to keep it up.


----------



## kevinjd

Are the bolts reusable or do you get new ones


----------



## Mark Oomkes

They're usually rusted enough that we torch the old ones off...so we use new ones.


----------



## kevinjd

Mark Oomkes said:


> They're usually rusted enough that we torch the old ones off...so we use new ones.


Thank you


----------



## Mark Oomkes

kevinjd said:


> Thank you


You're welcome.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

kevinjd said:


> Are the bolts reusable or do you get new ones


BTW, make sure get the correct length bolts...and they have to be plow bolts.


----------



## kevinjd

I’m quite sure they have the bolt type and size listed in the assembly manual.


----------



## kevinjd

Plow bolt 1⁄2’’ - 13nc x 1 1⁄4’’ lg gr.5

about $8.50 per 25 at the Bolt Depot.


----------



## Landgreen

kevinjd said:


> Does anyone have any pointers on changing the scraper blade on the Normand n82 hybrid blower? What lifting points or maybe safely tipping it backward? All help would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> 
> Kevin


Be sure to break it in. Drag it around your shop lot or road. It will be scraping a little too well on the first few drives in my experience.


----------



## kevinjd

Landgreen said:


> Be sure to break it in. Drag it around your shop lot or road. It will be scraping a little too well on the first few drives in my experience.


Thank you


----------



## jato

Shady said:


> I have a Kubota L6060 fuel consumption question. I am currently on pg 98 of this thread and edgeair stated he is seeing 1US gph (average). I’m curious if that’s what others are seeing? At 13.8 gal fuel tank that consumption should not be an issue however doing other research I’ve seen reports of 3 US gph consumption which would seem to be an issue as refueling would be needed. Thanks for any and all info on this Kubota L6060 question.


Depends on the operator to some degree, but somewhere around 5.5-6 full hours for us was cutting it close. The advice to limit routes to 4 hours is very good advice, but I wasn’t quite able to follow it last year. Seriously depends a lot on how the guy is driving the machine tho.


----------



## kevinjd

After looking at my scraper blade on the blower, I’m not sure it’s time to flip it around. Any opinions on it?

thank you,

kevin


----------



## CK82

Different subject here men, in regards to inverted blowers.

Kubota M7060 with Metal pless Agrimaxx 8-13 live edge, with Normand Hybrid 82.

Currently have a Normand Hybrid 82 (few years old with minimal usage). My operator doesn't like running with it on while plowing commercially, so it has sat most of its life. Since its inverted we can't really blow back piles, or anything along those lines anyway. By the time our commercial work is done there isn't use for it residentially.

We can see wet snow that packs easily, often. With that being said what should my expectations be as far as scraping clearing/scraping driveways with the inverted during those high moisture content instances? With our trucks, we can at least make a final push towards garage doors in order peel up snowpack, then shovel, or snowblow it off to the pavement.

From there my thoughts are to purchase a Kubota L6060 or similar hydrostatic tractor and put on the Normand Hybrid to use nearly strictly for residential driveways. We have roughly 40 driveways within a 5 mile radius of one another, as well as some mixed use commercial with smaller lots. The remainder of our residential driveways and commercial work exceeds another 5-10 miles from our closer sites. 

At this time, we service our residentials with a truck, plow, blowers, shovels and 2 workers. (1"-3") usually takes 15-20 mins with applying ice melt. With the tractor and inverted, we will still need to send a truck to clean walkways and apply ice melt however.

I do turn down additional work as far as residentials because of the labor involved in clearing the driveways, and walkways, however if we could be much more efficient on the driveways with a tractor and inverted maybe that's the path I should take. I just need to make sure that we will get a good to very good scrape considering driveways are of all shapes and sizes, slopes, and transitions.

Lastly I believe I've seen a Canadian company with an inverted front plow (Protech expandable?) of sort for back dragging, with a conventional blower on the back. I've also seen a company with a stiff bristled broom on the front for lighter snow occasions that I believe was sectioned to flip down to a wider width. 

I probably answered my own question, however if anyone could give some additional insight that would be appreciated. Thanks! -Chris


----------



## blade runner

CK82 said:


> Different subject here men, in regards to inverted blowers.
> 
> Kubota M7060 with Metal pless Agrimaxx 8-13 live edge, with Normand Hybrid 82.
> 
> Currently have a Normand Hybrid 82 (few years old with minimal usage). My operator doesn't like running with it on while plowing commercially, so it has sat most of its life. Since its inverted we can't really blow back piles, or anything along those lines anyway. By the time our commercial work is done there isn't use for it residentially.
> 
> We can see wet snow that packs easily, often. With that being said what should my expectations be as far as scraping clearing/scraping driveways with the inverted during those high moisture content instances? With our trucks, we can at least make a final push towards garage doors in order peel up snowpack, then shovel, or snowblow it off to the pavement.
> 
> From there my thoughts are to purchase a Kubota L6060 or similar hydrostatic tractor and put on the Normand Hybrid to use nearly strictly for residential driveways. We have roughly 40 driveways within a 5 mile radius of one another, as well as some mixed use commercial with smaller lots. The remainder of our residential driveways and commercial work exceeds another 5-10 miles from our closer sites.
> 
> At this time, we service our residentials with a truck, plow, blowers, shovels and 2 workers. (1"-3") usually takes 15-20 mins with applying ice melt. With the tractor and inverted, we will still need to send a truck to clean walkways and apply ice melt however.
> 
> I do turn down additional work as far as residentials because of the labor involved in clearing the driveways, and walkways, however if we could be much more efficient on the driveways with a tractor and inverted maybe that's the path I should take. I just need to make sure that we will get a good to very good scrape considering driveways are of all shapes and sizes, slopes, and transitions.
> 
> Lastly I believe I've seen a Canadian company with an inverted front plow (Protech expandable?) of sort for back dragging, with a conventional blower on the back. I've also seen a company with a stiff bristled broom on the front for lighter snow occasions that I believe was sectioned to flip down to a wider width.
> 
> I probably answered my own question, however if anyone could give some additional insight that would be appreciated. Thanks! -Chris











This is what you want expands to 10’.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Inverteds scrape significantly better than the old style, FWIW.


----------



## CK82

So with the Cotech you're limited to just back dragging/pulling. @blade runner your not a fan of inverted blowers, or how cone you chose the Cotechs? Metal pless looks to have similar options.

Having an inverted (instead of conventional blower) like we do I'm thinking something on the front of the tractor that can knock down snow at the end of the driveway left from city plows would be important.


----------



## blade runner

CK82 said:


> So with the Cotech you're limited to just back dragging/pulling. @blade runner your not a fan of inverted blowers, or how cone you chose the Cotechs? Metal pless looks to have similar options.
> 
> Having an inverted (instead of conventional blower) like we do I'm thinking something on the front of the tractor that can knock down snow at the end of the driveway left from city plows would be important.


If you look closely you can kind of see we have a Normand inverted blower on the back of the 5740.


----------



## blade runner

In are area we get a lot of 2-4” storms and we find dragging out the 30’ driveways straight out with the 
Cotech extended out to 10’, then blowing off the pile with the blower works well.


----------



## blade runner

Mark Oomkes said:


> Inverteds scrape significantly better than the old style, FWIW.


Not sure what you mean? Is there a newer design now that is better than the Cotech we are using?


----------



## jato

CK82 said:


> Different subject here men, in regards to inverted blowers.
> 
> Kubota M7060 with Metal pless Agrimaxx 8-13 live edge, with Normand Hybrid 82.
> 
> Currently have a Normand Hybrid 82 (few years old with minimal usage). My operator doesn't like running with it on while plowing commercially, so it has sat most of its life. Since its inverted we can't really blow back piles, or anything along those lines anyway. By the time our commercial work is done there isn't use for it residentially.
> 
> We can see wet snow that packs easily, often. With that being said what should my expectations be as far as scraping clearing/scraping driveways with the inverted during those high moisture content instances? With our trucks, we can at least make a final push towards garage doors in order peel up snowpack, then shovel, or snowblow it off to the pavement.
> 
> From there my thoughts are to purchase a Kubota L6060 or similar hydrostatic tractor and put on the Normand Hybrid to use nearly strictly for residential driveways. We have roughly 40 driveways within a 5 mile radius of one another, as well as some mixed use commercial with smaller lots. The remainder of our residential driveways and commercial work exceeds another 5-10 miles from our closer sites.
> 
> At this time, we service our residentials with a truck, plow, blowers, shovels and 2 workers. (1"-3") usually takes 15-20 mins with applying ice melt. With the tractor and inverted, we will still need to send a truck to clean walkways and apply ice melt however.
> 
> I do turn down additional work as far as residentials because of the labor involved in clearing the driveways, and walkways, however if we could be much more efficient on the driveways with a tractor and inverted maybe that's the path I should take. I just need to make sure that we will get a good to very good scrape considering driveways are of all shapes and sizes, slopes, and transitions.
> 
> Lastly I believe I've seen a Canadian company with an inverted front plow (Protech expandable?) of sort for back dragging, with a conventional blower on the back. I've also seen a company with a stiff bristled broom on the front for lighter snow occasions that I believe was sectioned to flip down to a wider width.
> 
> I probably answered my own question, however if anyone could give some additional insight that would be appreciated. Thanks! -Chris


The time for each stop seems very high. If we think of a long 75-foot driveway 2 cars wide, 15mins is long enough to clear it with a 24" walk behind snowblower. 

Would it be worthwhile to buy a tractor to do 40 drives? How many total miles would the route be? For every 10-15 miles of road figure an hour of transport time.
When it comes to scrape, I think the best advice on here is about managing customer expectations. 
If you're applying salt anyway, I don't see how scrape quality will matter very much. 

If salt and shoveling are bringing in money, I'd say put a tailgate spreader on a light truck and have one guy go shovel and salt them all.

If the salt and shoveling aren't money makers, drop them and also lower your overall rate to compensate. Then just do the driveways with one truck or tractor and avoid the headache of those other services.


----------



## CK82

Appreciate your responses guys.

@blade runner, Mark Oomkes was just stating that inverted blowers scrape better than old style conventional blowers.

@jato thanks for your feedback. Around here sidewalks are nearly always needed to be included.

In regards to time..15-20mins x 2 in order to clear the driveway, city walkways, front walkway, and apply ice melt. Generally snowfalls are less than 4". With a few events 4"-9" possible a season, and once a year chance for 9"-12" or greater.

Probably going further in depth than needed however, in the event we get a high moisture snowfall (which we do often) at even a 4" depth let alone say a 9" depth it taxes our crew & increases our route time substantially.
Residential clients playing a big roll in manual labor needed. 

Having a tractor (L6060 that's easy to operate being all hydraulic) setup with an inverted and possible front blade or pull plow could really save us in certain instances. 

I wouldn't shy away from new residential clients to increase route density, if we had a tractor backing us.


----------



## jato

CK82 said:


> Appreciate your responses guys.
> 
> @blade runner, Mark Oomkes was just stating that inverted blowers scrape better than old style conventional blowers.
> 
> @jato thanks for your feedback. Around here sidewalks are nearly always needed to be included.
> 
> In regards to time..15-20mins x 2 in order to clear the driveway, city walkways, front walkway, and apply ice melt. Generally snowfalls are less than 4". With a few events 4"-9" possible a season, and once a year chance for 9"-12" or greater.
> 
> Probably going further in depth than needed however, in the event we get a high moisture snowfall (which we do often) at even a 4" depth let alone say a 9" depth it taxes our crew & increases our route time substantially.
> Residential clients playing a big roll in manual labor needed.
> 
> Having a tractor (L6060 that's easy to operate being all hydraulic) setup with an inverted and possible front blade or pull plow could really save us in certain instances.
> 
> I wouldn't shy away from new residential clients to increase route density, if we had a tractor backing us.


I'd say try to bundle similar activities. Don't have a tractor or plow driver get out and shovel. Don't have a shoveler worry about salt. It is also not necessary for salt to go down on any residential property before all the residentials have their driveways cleared. Salting is a physically easy job that brings in $$$. Like tractor driving. It's the opposite of shoveling. A lot of residential salting can be done by one guy in one truck, and he will have an easy shift. The hourly doesn't have to be high for that dude. But if the guys who shovel are taking extra time to salt, it's being paid at the shoveler pay rate which is too high. And it's just making them slower and more tired, making the shoveling take forever. If the truck or tractor driver is getting out and shoveling, thats machine hours wasted and an operator who is exhausted halfway thru the shift and prone to make mistakes. Or so it seems to me


----------



## CK82

I believe I've read of at least one contractor on here who has the capability to spray a liquid de-icer from his tractor rig after blowing the driveway. That could save us time and cost to apply granular after...and it would keep driveways safe in the meantime until the sidewalk crew arrives.


----------



## jato

CK82 said:


> I believe I've read of at least one contractor on here who has the capability to spray a liquid de-icer from his tractor rig after blowing the driveway. That could save us time and cost to apply granular after...and it would keep driveways safe in the meantime until the sidewalk crew arrives.


If you figure out a good tank mount setup for it, please share. I'd like that. But then again it would slow down the tractor. If you ran it while blowing snow, the next overlapping pass would pick up some ice melt material and throw it on the lawn. I'm not sure if that would hurt the grass , but if you aimed the chute hugh enough maybe it would disperse. 
as long as you don't have to do the whole drive again for the spray it would be cool.


----------



## CK82

The high volume contractors in the North, probably aren't interested in doing so, rather interested in the tractors blowing driveways to max capacity. I just thought it may save some time and cost spraying a liquid while onsite blowing the driveway. That way the sidewalk crew would only have to deal with just that, sidewalks. If our sidewalk crew/s showed up with a ventrac they could at least apply a granular ice melt easily, and if we were to purchase the SSV or SR Mag we would spray liquid and or apply granular.

I was just curious on the tractor de-icing approach. I will try to locate the post from awhile back that I saw.


----------



## jato

CK82 said:


> The high volume contractors in the North, probably aren't interested in doing so, rather interested in the tractors blowing driveways to max capacity. I just thought it may save some time and cost spraying a liquid while onsite blowing the driveway. That way the sidewalk crew would only have to deal with just that, sidewalks. If our sidewalk crew/s showed up with a ventrac they could at least apply a granular ice melt easily, and if we were to purchase the SSV or SR Mag we would spray liquid and or apply granular.
> 
> I was just curious on the tractor de-icing approach. I will try to locate the post from awhile back that I saw.


Hard part is getting the ventrac there. Can't drive it. Too slow.


----------



## CK82

jato said:


> Hard part is getting the ventrac there. Can't drive it. Too slow.


Definitely cannot drive the Ventrac to the sites. A contractor near us has at least two pick-up bed inserts that have a ramp system/dovetail that from what I've seen must be for transporting an SSV or SR Mag sized stand on machine. One way or another a second trip would be needed.

Its still on my mind from a thread I was involved in a year or more prior, in regards to a contractor out East I believe, that ran a fleet of Bobcat Toolcat 5610's with a blower on the front or back, plow? opposite of the blower, and liquid de-ice tank. Honestly I feel that would be the setup in order to be a one stop shop at residentials.


----------



## jato

CK82 said:


> Definitely cannot drive the Ventrac to the sites. A contractor near us has at least two pick-up bed inserts that have a ramp system/dovetail that from what I've seen must be for transporting an SSV or SR Mag sized stand on machine. One way or another a second trip would be needed.
> 
> Its still on my mind from a thread I was involved in a year or more prior, in regards to a contractor out East I believe, that ran a fleet of Bobcat Toolcat 5610's with a blower on the front or back, plow? opposite of the blower, and liquid de-ice tank. Honestly I feel that would be the setup in order to be a one stop shop at residentials.


I've never driven one but the clearance looks low. And unless it can transport at 25-35mph, a tractor will still be more efficient and probably cheaper. A similarly priced tractor will have more PTO power and hitch power and (I think?) can use a wider blower than the toolcat, whether that's a front or rear, conventional or inverted. Toolcat can carry a second person to do shoveling on the same trip though... which might be a bonus in terms of having fewer vehicles to manage, but I think would actually really slow the driver down from house to house.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Whoa...talk aboot MP money.


----------



## m_ice

Mark Oomkes said:


> Whoa...talk aboot MP money.


I like the hand formed rear remotes station


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Whoa...talk aboot MP money.


Tire grooving looks interesting.... cleaning looking job than using a chain saw....... @EWSplow


----------



## EWSplow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Whoa...talk aboot MP money.


Don't you know orange is the new green?



BUFF said:


> Tire grooving looks interesting.... cleaning looking job than using a chain saw....... @EWSplow


So, you're dropping out of my online tire siping class?
I don't give refunds.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Tire grooving looks interesting.... cleaning looking job than using a chain saw....... @EWSplow


Maybe with one of those junk stick welders you could hardface the tyres...


----------



## EWSplow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Maybe with one of those junk stick welders you could hardface the tyres...


I've seen signs on the freeway for places that sell rubber rods....


----------



## SHAWZER

Curious if anyone uses Kubota F3680 's with cab and 52" front mounted blowers ? 

Local guy has 7 of them , uses 5 with 2 spares for tight route residential driveways .


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Do they go 20 MPH?


----------



## jonniesmooth

jato said:


> If you figure out a good tank mount setup for it, please share. I'd like that. But then again it would slow down the tractor. If you ran it while blowing snow, the next overlapping pass would pick up some ice melt material and throw it on the lawn. I'm not sure if that would hurt the grass , but if you aimed the chute hugh enough maybe it would disperse.
> as long as you don't have to do the whole drive again for the spray it would be cool.


I would think you clear all the snow, then make a pass or 2 deicing after.


----------



## jonniesmooth

If your doing 30 driveways in twin home developments,yeah tractor driver getting out to shovel drags your time down.
But he still needs to take time every hour or 2 to stretch his legs, and at some point TCB.
If your route isn't that tight, and you've got 3-4 accounts in a couple blocks of each other, then getting out for 6-10 minutes to shovel is more feasible than running a second truck with a sidewalk guy.


----------



## m_ice

SHAWZER said:


> Curious if anyone uses Kubota F3680 's with cab and 52" front mounted blowers ?
> 
> Local guy has 7 of them , uses 5 with 2 spares for tight route residential driveways .


I'd like 1 for an industrial plant sidewalks we do


----------



## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Whoa...talk aboot MP money.



That made me dizzy...


----------



## SHAWZER

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do they go 20 MPH?


20 km/h if you can hang on with rear wheel steer


----------



## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Whoa...talk aboot MP money.


Wait a sec. I thoughr 32hp was enough? So confused now.


----------



## SHAWZER

He does 260 Driveways with 5 Kubota F3680 's . 

4 cylinder , 36 hp and turn on a quarter .


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ajlawn1 said:


> That made me dizzy...




You actually watched it?


----------



## jonniesmooth

Mark Oomkes said:


> Whoa...talk aboot MP money.


So what does that weigh?
Several of my residential customers were concerned about the size/weight of equipment used.
They didn't want skid loader sized equipment used.
Have not had anyone complain about the 1 series tractors. 
We did have some concerned about the smaller 425/ X720 machines as they needed tire chains.
Concern was damage to concrete/ turf.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> You actually watched it?



Till about 1:48 I think...


----------



## DeVries

Like how the Sault outfit keep their Deere dealer honest by having some orange in the fleet. 
Sometimes I think I should do that as well. Tried blue tractors but that cost me even more money.


----------



## BUFF

DeVries said:


> Like how the Sault outfit keep their Deere dealer honest by having some orange in the fleet.
> Sometimes I think I should do that as well. Tried blue tractors but that cost me even more money.


Heard Blue Tractors were the best on another thread and Deere's not so much.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

It doesn't matter what it weighs, what matters is it's PSI.

If they have that ****ty of driveways, well I don't know what to say.


----------



## jonniesmooth

Mark Oomkes said:


> It doesn't matter what it weighs, what matters is it's PSI.
> 
> If they have that ****ty of driveways, well I don't know what to say.


You explain it to them. I'm bizzy.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

jonniesmooth said:


> You explain it to them. I'm bizzy.


I'm good, I explain their lack of understanding and if they don't get it, they're not my customer.


----------



## jonniesmooth

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm good, I explain their lack of understanding and if they don't get it, they're not my customer.


That's what I tell them.
" this is what we use and this is how we do it, it doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine."
I had 9 twin homes in one development that approached me after my fall deadline.
So i.put together a package for them.
I didn't get them.
Why?
They all have about 20' of sidewalk from the garage corner to the main door( can't call it the front door,because it's on the side, the garage is the front) doesn't feel right to me to call it the side door, but whatever.
Anyway. In my proposal we would run the tractor from the garage corner on the sidewalk to the door. The sidewalk isn't as wide as the tractor. So we would be about half on the walk/ half in the grass.
This is how we do all our others, maybe not every time. If it's light snow we shovel, but when the edge starts to build up we blow it back, so there's room to shovel again.
Some of them didn't like that.
So they didn't sign.
I'm fine with that.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Tell them the tractor will go places in wet fields they can't dream of with their car or 4wd truck.


----------



## m_ice

2017 JOHN DEERE 3039R For Sale in Thamesford, Ontario


2017 JOHN DEERE 3039R For Sale in Thamesford, Ontario at TractorHouse.com




www.tractorhouse.com





@jonniesmooth


----------



## m_ice

Mark Oomkes said:


> Tell them the tractor will go places in wet fields they can't dream of with their car or 4wd truck.


You would know


----------



## jonniesmooth

m_ice said:


> 2017 JOHN DEERE 3039R For Sale in Thamesford, Ontario
> 
> 
> 2017 JOHN DEERE 3039R For Sale in Thamesford, Ontario at TractorHouse.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tractorhouse.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @jonniesmooth


That's a fair amount of hours,isn't it?
And shipping from Kannadia. 
It's in my price range tho.
On Machinery Pete I had to go out to Missouri to find anything near my price range.





2014 John Deere 3039R Tractor - $39,500 | Machinery Pete


2014 John Deere 3039R tractor. Browse the most popular brands and models at the best prices on Machinery Pete.




www.machinerypete.com










2015 John Deere 3039R Tractor - $33,900 | Machinery Pete


2015 John Deere 3039R tractor. Browse the most popular brands and models at the best prices on Machinery Pete.




www.machinerypete.com




Everything close,might as well buy new, especially if they have zero % financing.


----------



## m_ice

jonniesmooth said:


> That's a fair amount of hours,isn't it?
> And shipping from Kannadia.
> It's in my price range tho.
> On Machinery Pete I had to go out to Missouri to find anything near my price range.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2014 John Deere 3039R Tractor - $39,500 | Machinery Pete
> 
> 
> 2014 John Deere 3039R tractor. Browse the most popular brands and models at the best prices on Machinery Pete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.machinerypete.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2015 John Deere 3039R Tractor - $33,900 | Machinery Pete
> 
> 
> 2015 John Deere 3039R tractor. Browse the most popular brands and models at the best prices on Machinery Pete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.machinerypete.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything close,might as well buy new, especially if they have zero % financing.


I'd be more concerned about rust than the hours.


----------



## jonniesmooth

m_ice said:


> I'd be more concerned about rust than the hours.


Given my prior experiences I think if I go bigger, it almost has to be new,for the warranty.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BTW, we replace the bearings on the brooms annually as well. Cuz they're the same POS as the carrier on the tractor.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> BTW, we replace the bearings on the brooms annually as well. Cuz they're the same POS as the carrier on the tractor.


Are they roller or taper bearings? 
If their roller bearing could taper bearing be used if a carrier for them was installed?
Other option if their roller bearings is to clean and repack them annually providing they have a rubber seal on each side of the beariing. I did this on idler wheel roller bearing on my sled and never had one seize up.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Neither, some cheap pressed together POS garbage. There's basically nothing to them.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Neither, some cheap pressed together POS garbage. There's basically nothing to them.


Similar to lower cost mower deck spindle / idler wheel bearing?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Similar to lower cost mower deck spindle / idler wheel bearing?


Worse...I'll either find the part online or a pic of ones I have on hand.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Worse...I'll either find the part online or a pic of ones I have on hand.


1st post has pics of what I think you're yapping about......








Easy Installation of Snow Blower Drive Shaft


After my initial adventures installing the Front PTO Kit in the 1025R, I decided that there must be a better way. This post describes an easy and quick method I’ve used a couple of times now. I like it and it has worked well for me. The first time you assemble the Front PTO kit, the manual...




www.greentractortalk.com





BTW the site is a VS site.


----------



## jonniesmooth

BUFF said:


> 1st post has pics of what I think you're yapping about......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Easy Installation of Snow Blower Drive Shaft
> 
> 
> After my initial adventures installing the Front PTO Kit in the 1025R, I decided that there must be a better way. This post describes an easy and quick method I’ve used a couple of times now. I like it and it has worked well for me. The first time you assemble the Front PTO kit, the manual...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.greentractortalk.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW the site is a VS site.


I think I just found the same thing.
Start at post #6.








Front QH Bearings?


I just removed my Snow Blower for the season (Knock on Wood), this drive shaft supporting member as seen here etc. has two bearings. This component was bought new and has three seasons on it only. When I turn the inner bearing I can feel the balls going around in the race. Normal? Feels rough? I...




www.greentractortalk.com


----------



## BUFF

jonniesmooth said:


> I think I just found the same thing.
> Start at post #6.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Front QH Bearings?
> 
> 
> I just removed my Snow Blower for the season (Knock on Wood), this drive shaft supporting member as seen here etc. has two bearings. This component was bought new and has three seasons on it only. When I turn the inner bearing I can feel the balls going around in the race. Normal? Feels rough? I...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.greentractortalk.com


But I found it first.........  

So a caged roller bearing.... On sleds the seal/dust cover is made of a rubber type material and you can remove them (carefully) with a dental pic to clean it, pack new grease in it and put the seal/dust cover back on.


----------



## jonniesmooth

BUFF said:


> But I found it first.........
> 
> So a caged roller bearing.... On sleds the seal/dust cover is made of a rubber type material and you can remove them (carefully) with a dental pic to clean it, pack new grease in it and put the seal/dust cover back on.
> View attachment 259235


Not the same link,yours is different site, different info, good things in both.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> 1st post has pics of what I think you're yapping about......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Easy Installation of Snow Blower Drive Shaft
> 
> 
> After my initial adventures installing the Front PTO Kit in the 1025R, I decided that there must be a better way. This post describes an easy and quick method I’ve used a couple of times now. I like it and it has worked well for me. The first time you assemble the Front PTO kit, the manual...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.greentractortalk.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW the site is a VS site.


OK, I was wrong. 

As opposed to some Juan, I'll admit it. 

Not sure what I was thinking of. 

In our situtation, between the salt and crap the broom goes through replacing it is as easy as disassembling, repacking, reassembling to just replace it. They are not very spendy. 

Still trying to work on a way of cleaning our on-site sidewalk equipment more frequently.


----------



## jonniesmooth

Mark Oomkes said:


> OK, I was wrong.
> 
> As opposed to some Juan, I'll admit it.
> 
> Not sure what I was thinking of.
> 
> In our situtation, between the salt and crap the broom goes through replacing it is as easy as disassembling, repacking, reassembling to just replace it. They are not very spendy.
> 
> Still trying to work on a way of cleaning our on-site sidewalk equipment more frequently.


Service writer mentioned the bearings on the brooms too.
Brooms are terrible on driveline. All the shaking, etc.
I did pick up 2 of these to replace the chain and sprockets on the snowblower.








But we had just put new chain on, so haven't converted yet.
I paid $180 for them. Which is about half the price of the chain and sprockets ( if you have to replace them too) chain is only $30.
And it's a couple hours to R&R them.
So if they last the same length of time as chain they are half price. But the big win is, maintenance is now checking fluid level vs
Unhooking the blower 
Unhooking the pto
Tipping it forward 
Cleaning out all the built.up ice and snow on the chain. Which has to be hard on the chain,running in that all day,no wonder it needs to be tensioned every 50 hours.
Loosening the 4 bolts
Sliding the carrier tight
Re tighten bolts
Lube chain
Re install blower


----------



## CK82

That 6110m, there's no clutching? Looks like some sort of automatic.


----------



## CAT 245ME

New Normand Hybrid at the local farm show just recently.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Looks like a PXPL style in the background? 

After decades of expanding backplows, I'm just not so sure about expanding anything behind the operator anymore. More initial expense, more maintenance, more opportunity for $hit to break.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Looks like a PXPL style in the background?
> 
> After decades of expanding backplows, I'm just not so sure about expanding anything behind the operator anymore. More initial expense, more maintenance, more opportunity for $hit to break.


Issues from operator issues?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I'd be more interested in that one behind it.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'd be more interested in that one behind it.


The Normand Essa blowers have been around for a few years now at least. https://www.cienormand.com/en/normand-series-commercial-fonction.php


----------



## Kvston

Mark Oomkes said:


> Looks like a PXPL style in the background?
> 
> After decades of expanding backplows, I'm just not so sure about expanding anything behind the operator anymore. More initial expense, more maintenance, more opportunity for $hit to break.


So the issue in your mind is the expandable operation being behind the operator?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> The Normand Essa blowers have been around for a few years now at least. https://www.cienormand.com/en/normand-series-commercial-fonction.php


Duh, brain is still asleep. I remember seeing them now, just figgered they were new too...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Issues from operator issues?


Quality of operators. Crappy weather conditions. Tight areas one is working in. Long hours. Trying to hurry when behind or it's snowing for 4 days and we have to get to bare pavement immediately if not sooner.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Kvston said:


> So the issue in your mind is the expandable operation being behind the operator?


Hard to see it when it's behind you. So you're going slower keeping an eye on it instead of just driving because the blower is 1 or 2 inches wider than the tractor. Harder to remember if you extended it.


----------



## Hydromaster

do you only hire Italian race car drivers?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

No Lamborghini tractors here/hear.


----------



## Hydromaster

Mark Oomkes said:


> No Lamborghini tractors here/hear.


The First Rule of Italian Driving. In the illegal road race classic The Gumball Rally, Franco, the race car driver portrayed by Raul Julia, told his boss and co-driver “And now, my friend, the first rule of Italian driving, (pauses to rip the rear view mirror off the windshield and throw it behind him), what is behind me, is not important .”


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> Hard to see it when it's behind you. So you're going slower keeping an eye on it instead of just driving because the blower is 1 or 2 inches wider than the tractor. Harder to remember if you extended it.


I would've been happy if they just came out with an inverted blower just a bit wider than 92". 96" would've been fine. Expandable blowers are a great idea, problem is they require an experienced operator who will pay close attention, and as we all know there is nothing harder to find than a good operator.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

I'm really wanting to get a 100" next year. I'd also like to out it on a 6 Series.


----------



## jonniesmooth

CAT 245ME said:


> I would've been happy if they just came out with an inverted blower just a bit wider than 92". 96" would've been fine. Expandable blowers are a great idea, problem is they require an experienced operator who will pay close attention, and as we all know there is nothing harder to find than a good operator.


Even the good one's have bad days.


----------



## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm really wanting to get a 100" next year. I'd also like to out it on a 6 Series.


I'd like all my tractors to have N100's on them, but I purchased my 92" Hybrids left over for just over 5k less each compared to a new Normand N100. You gotta save money where you can, I can't afford a new 6M for just snow use, all three of mine are 1200 hrs to 1700hrs. They are in great shape, well looked after. 

If a 6 series is what you want, I look for 2015's and older with low hours, no DEF and 24 speed power quad transmissions. But I'm now finding those tractors have certainly gone up in value, and those who have them are hanging onto them.


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## Mark Oomkes

Thanks for the info, wasn't sure about which transmission.


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## CAT 245ME

On the 6M's (like what I have), the 92" Hybrids are just a bit too narrow for that size of tractor. Now I could move the rear tires in a little more but I work pretty much on a hill and with that don't wanna have them too narrow. Over the winter months with the 92's driveways start to get narrower as the season goes by since they can't cut into the bank. The driveways that are cleared with the N100 it's not an issue. The blower is just a better fit for the size of tractor.

Here is my 6115M with the N100.


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## Kvston

CAT 245ME said:


> On the 6M's (like what I have), the 92" Hybrids are just a bit too narrow for that size of tractor. Now I could move the rear tires in a little more but I work pretty much on a hill and with that don't wanna have them too narrow. Over the winter months with the 92's driveways start to get narrower as the season goes by since they can't cut into the bank. The driveways that are cleared with the N100 it's not an issue. The blower is just a better fit for the size of tractor.
> 
> Here is my 6115M with the N100.


Amateur question but with that much weight and power could a pair of 4” wide deflectors increase the width and simply direct the snow in to the 92” blower?


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## CAT 245ME

Kvston said:


> Amateur question but with that much weight and power could a pair of 4” wide deflectors increase the width and simply direct the snow in to the 92” blower?


I have considered ordering a set of hydraulic wings from Pronovost and modifying them for the Normand. I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone else do that yet.


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## BUFF

Hydromaster said:


> do you only hire Italian race car drivers?


Or farm kids that are use to pulling a 60' cultivator or seed drill.


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## Mark Oomkes

I guess for me the wings are basically worthless if they don't start at the back edge of the blower.


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## Landgreen

CAT 245ME said:


> New Normand Hybrid at the local farm show just recently.
> View attachment 260614


I was interested in the expandable bilodeau last year but after running a couple of our routes with the tractor recently it would be too much to deal with. Theres so much to focus on with where the snow is going and setting up for the next pass. Seems like a wing would be handy for longer drives or small parking lots.


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## jonniesmooth

Landgreen said:


> I was interested in the expandable bilodeau last year but after running a couple of our routes with the tractor recently it would be too much to deal with. Theres so much to focus on with where the snow is going and setting up for the next pass. Seems like a wing would be handy for longer drives or small parking lots.


My mechanic and I were having the same discussion last week. I am getting a new tractor in February, with a front blower.
I contacted Todd in Iowa about building us another sectional blade with a 3pt mount for the rear.
My mechanic thinks it's too much to run for the operator. 
We were at first leaning towards a joystick mounted toggle switch to select the left/ right rear wing and use the joystick to move them.
Mechanic thinks that it's too easy to forget which function is sel RR cted and cause damage to something.
So we then went to a separate electric/ hydraulic system, so that there is a disconnect in the operators brain as to what functions you are using.
We will see how we decide to proceed.


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## SHAWZER

Question 

Small blower , auger on each side of the gearbox .

Are they to be lined up with the ends closet to the gearbox on the same side of the shaft ? 

Or the ends on opposite side of the shaft ?

Asking for the Boss .....


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## jonniesmooth

Do you have another one to look at to compare it too?
If no, then where is the closest place with a blower you can look at?
Should have put a zip tie,hose clamp,duck tape on the inside or outside of them when it came apart. 
Put it together go try it out. On a positive note you'll be extremely proficient at R/R of this unit if you don't get it right the first time.
Good luck.


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## SHAWZER

The blower works either way . 1 way both augers are shoving snow into the impeller fan at the same time.

Other way the augers alternate shoving snow into the fan .

I assume in wet - heavy snow the alternating way might help from plugging up so much ?

Not hard to change 1 side , undo 1 shear bolt and rotate 180


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## jonniesmooth

Ok.
If they are in the right way,they feed the fan. If they are in the wrong way shouldn't they move snow the wrong way? To the outside?
What you're describing sounds like one is turned 90° from the other, so they don't work in sync. I can see advantages to that, not overloading the fan as quickly.


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## SHAWZER

They were never taken out or off of the shaft .

When fixing 1 shear bolt on 1 side you have the option to turn the auger 180 degrees .


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## Mark Oomkes

On my Deere blower, the augers have "ears" for lack of a better term that line up with "ears" on the shaft. There is only one way to align them.


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## SHAWZER

Does the auger look like a continuous spiral from 1 side to the other ?

Or does the auger ends or ears end on the same side of the shaft on either side of the centre gearbox?


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## Mark Oomkes

SHAWZER said:


> Does the auger look like a continuous spiral from 1 side to the other ?
> 
> Or does the auger ends or ears end on the same side of the shaft on either side of the centre gearbox?


That would require me to walk ootside...BRB


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## Mark Oomkes

Looks like a continual spiral.










The "ears" are visible.


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## SHAWZER

Thanks Mark 

I like pictures


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## Mark Oomkes

No problem, just fortunate it's here at the shop.

Brought it back to clean up and service.


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## CAT 245ME

I've been wanting to ask this question for a long while now, myself like most of those on Plowsite I have been a snow contractor for many years (20 plus here). Looking back on when this thread first started, my main concern was that compact tractors would eventually become the new plow truck. What I mean by that is, one on every street. No liability insurance, backup plan in case of breakdown etc.

I see more and more on my tractor's routes, a little tractor (no name brands with cheap financing) appear in a driveway on a street I have 30 plus driveways then I get the odd call from a client saying "so and so has a tractor now just down the street, he's willing to do it less for cash and no contract etc". 

In my service area, I have roughly a dozen of them now since I started with the first 6 series Deere where there was none 8 years ago. I'm sure others on here have had similar experiences.


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## Shady

CAT 245ME said:


> I've been wanting to ask this question for a long while now, myself like most of those on Plowsite I have been a snow contractor for many years (20 plus here). Looking back on when this thread first started, my main concern was that compact tractors would eventually become the new plow truck. What I mean by that is, one on every street. No liability insurance, backup plan in case of breakdown etc.
> 
> I see more and more on my tractor's routes, a little tractor (no name brands with cheap financing) appear in a driveway on a street I have 30 plus driveways then I get the odd call from a client saying "so and so has a tractor now just down the street, he's willing to do it less for cash and no contract etc".
> 
> In my service area, I have roughly a dozen of them now since I started with the first 6 series Deere where there was none 8 years ago. I'm sure others on here have had similar experiences.


Sounds like residential plowing in general, if you own a truck/tractor with a plow/blower you are now a plowing contractor. I would imagine there is a large majority on here that started plowing that way. I know I did as it was just a side hustle for many years.


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## Kvston

Shady said:


> Sounds like residential plowing in general, if you own a truck/tractor with a plow/blower you are now a plowing contractor. I would imagine there is a large majority on here that started plowing that way. I know I did as it was just a side hustle for many years.


Yeah the residential market here has become flooded. I got real tired of saying “this is why you should hire me and not the Joe Schmo “ at the measly pricing of residential in a rural area.

Id rather market to the commercial account that generates 6-10-20x the revenue.


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## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> I've been wanting to ask this question for a long while now, myself like most of those on Plowsite I have been a snow contractor for many years (20 plus here). Looking back on when this thread first started, my main concern was that compact tractors would eventually become the new plow truck. What I mean by that is, one on every street. No liability insurance, backup plan in case of breakdown etc.
> 
> I see more and more on my tractor's routes, a little tractor (no name brands with cheap financing) appear in a driveway on a street I have 30 plus driveways then I get the odd call from a client saying "so and so has a tractor now just down the street, he's willing to do it less for cash and no contract etc".
> 
> In my service area, I have roughly a dozen of them now since I started with the first 6 series Deere where there was none 8 years ago. I'm sure others on here have had similar experiences.


So hire them...never had a problem filling a route yet.


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## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> So hire them...never had a problem filling a route yet.


I had one of them come and see me back in April, he had 8 or so driveways and wanted to know if I'd take them over. I said sure and to email me the list. Also told him I'm always looking for operators if he was interested and that pay is for the season. He did sell his little tractor, but he never sent them to me and I never heard from him again. 

I've had a couple others that tried but after a couple winters gave up and moved.


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