# Input on bagging your own salt from bulk



## markkps (Feb 19, 2009)

I was wondering if anyone has experience buying bulk salt, then loading it in your own 50lb bags?

I have looked at the costs, and the per bag price including labor for bagging will still be less then what I am paying for 50lb bags a skid at a time from my supplier.

Also interested in any experience you can share doing this. I thought we would get a 2-ton load, use an old hopper to shovel the bulk into, then feed into 50 lb bags they we purchased from a supplier.

Thanks for your input!


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

We did this in a pinch a couple years ago. I worked out ok, you just have to use it fairly soon after filling. We had a few bags left over and they froze up over night. This is exactly what we are going to do this year with my sidewalk guys. I figure they should be able to fill 20 bags in a few minutes. 20 bags of "bagged" salt is around 120 bucks and about 30 bucks to refill with bulk.


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## Mdwstsnow512 (Dec 30, 2007)

you could also use buckets, 
a little more expensive but alot easier ot handle, and reuse
and keep dry


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## markkps (Feb 19, 2009)

I was afraid of bags freezing up. I have a spare trailer that I can store the bags in.

If this works the plan next year is to bag in august when its dry and store for the winter.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt packaging*



markkps;1129615 said:


> I was wondering if anyone has experience buying bulk salt, then loading it in your own 50lb bags?
> 
> I have looked at the costs, and the per bag price including labor for bagging will still be less then what I am paying for 50lb bags a skid at a time from my supplier.
> 
> ...


Getting a 2 ton load is the problem unless you have access
to a salt reseller that deals in small volume as most of them
will not dump less than ten tons depending on the location 
simply because of the size of the front end loaders used 
to fill bulk trailers.

Buying ten tons is about 10 cubic yards of yards of halite "rock salt".
You would be better off buying 2 pallets of the Ropak rectangular pails 
of 35 pound capacity with the sealed locking lids to do this as you 
could buy your bulk and pack it using old traffic cones set between the 
rungs of a ladder set on saw horses with a larger portion of the cone 
cut off to fill the pails quickly.

The problem with bagging is the bags do not resist moisture where 
HDPE bucket will.

You can pack a lot of salt in the rectangular pails with or without lids 
and stack them in an area that is enclosed and or heated at a 
minimum temperature easily.

You would want a pair or three dehumidifiers to remove the excess
moisture that will be present to save you from dealing with salt that
becomes stuck if you insist on bagging as it turns to a solid mass-
the reason this happens is because bagged halite does not contain 
anti-caking agent WHICH is why you have salt bricks at the time you 
need and want it most.

If you can purchase 2 tons of bulk Halite and it has been treated with an 
anto caking agent you will be better of using the rectangular pails as the
bags used for sand bagging are not moisture resistant and you will need 
a very strong twine being the nylon twines used for surveying and concrete 
work to tie the bags BUT the bags will be weaker than the twine and will fail 
eventually at the neck of the bag. .

Using a millers knot to tie the bags is the fastest way to tie them but the 
issue is the bags, unless you have a heated garage with access to several
dehumidifiers to remove the excess moisture that will be present due to 
the salt attracting moisture THROUGH the bag walls.

Bagging by hand is very labor intensive and counter productive where and simply scooping with flat shovel into the the buckets with the cones will be faster until it becomes hard to gather enough to fill a pail quickly.

You can forget about using a plastic or aluminum grain scoop as it will break very quickly.
and they will have no balance when shoveling salt as they are ment for grain.

The flat shovels wih the yellow non-conductive fiberglass reinforced handles will work 
well for this. you have to remember the flat shovel is better if you have bulk on a concrete floor as the floor becomes your freind as the floor becomes the fulcrum to make it easier to shovel the salt. from the BOTTOM of the pile as you will only be fighting your self scooping into the pile.


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## Green Grass (Dec 5, 2006)

we use 5 gallon buckets that can be resealed and it works great and easier for crews to have handy


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt etc.*



markkps;1129760 said:


> I was afraid of bags freezing up. I have a spare trailer that I can store the bags in.
> 
> If this works the plan next year is to bag in august when its dry and store for the winter.


You may not be able to buy any bulk in August as they are filling stock piles.

You will need to buy dehumidifiers if you expect to use an unheated trailer and run them around the clock, freezing is not the issue; clumping and caking is the issue from salts attracting moisture.


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## Dailylc (Feb 12, 2006)

markkps;1129615 said:


> I was wondering if anyone has experience buying bulk salt, then loading it in your own 50lb bags?
> 
> I have looked at the costs, and the per bag price including labor for bagging will still be less then what I am paying for 50lb bags a skid at a time from my supplier.
> 
> ...


I have been doing this for 4 yrs now at least. We have never had a problem with the salt freezing in the bags and the are much easier to handle and stack in the truck than buckets. In the past we were using the Fiberglas grass seed bags. The downfall to that was closing them. This year we are trying something new. Sandbags! The reason we are doing this is, once filled we can tie them shut and they are much more compact and easy to handle.
I will post a couple pics later.
As far as cost. The salt cost me $68 a ton, sandbags $10 per 500 and it takes 2 guys at most 1 1/2 hrs to bag 1 ton $36 roughly.
It's paying off for me. Give it a try.

James


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## snowtech (Sep 18, 2010)

dailylc, this is a great idea i have been kicking around trying. where do you purchase the empy sand bag? do u just use twine to tie off the end or zip ties?

thanks in advance


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## deere615 (Jun 1, 2007)

5 gallon buckets work better But I usually still just buy bags its easier IMO they load me with the forklift the bags done freeze up usually and I dont waste time and labor shoveling salt


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## MARK SUPPLY (Jan 14, 2008)

*waste of time*

While you are filling buckets and bags saving pennies, I am out making dollars


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## markkps (Feb 19, 2009)

Thanks to everyone for some great input!

LEON I respect your detailed thinking. I fortunately have a salt supplier nearby that I can get a bed load of salt (1 ton) and then I will bag right out of the bed until its gone. I have the bed tarpped so it does not corrode the bed.

DailyLC I have not done this before, but your logic agrees with mine. According to my costs estimates I can save at least $1 per bag versus buying skids. 

Can I ask your source for sand bags. I was going to buy from Uline but they are $39/100. Also...how do you guys load the bags...scoop shovel?

Thansk for all the great input!!


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## Kwise (Sep 24, 2009)

I've been kicking around this idea too. What I'm thinking is build a bin to keep in the truck bed and have the salt dumped right into that. Then shovel into my tailgate spreader. If I keep it tarped, should be ok? Anyone else try this?


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt etc...............*



markkps;1130466 said:


> Thanks to everyone for some great input!
> 
> LEON I respect your detailed thinking. I fortunately have a salt supplier nearby that I can get a bed load of salt (1 ton) and then I will bag right out of the bed until its gone. I have the bed tarpped so it does not corrode the bed.
> 
> ...


Gemplers of Wisconsin has had sand bags in the past, I hope your salt supplier has had anti caking agent sprayed on the Halite that you buy from him/her.......................... That is the major reason I always suggest the pails because moisture is your enemy as far as Halite is concerned as Halite is hygroscopic and attacts moisture whre the pail prevents moisture from collecting on the Halite salts.

You could always mix in some uncooked white rice to absorb the moisture in the salt and keep it free flowing as white rice is not expensive in bulk.

I suggested an aluminum rung ladder and traffic cones previously because that is what works and a lot areas that are flood prone and do not have portable sand bagging machinery do it that way with sand dumped on the ground and shoveled into the cones while someone is holding the bag around the edge of the cone- its nothing more than an open mouth bag filling spout.

Filling bags is a VERY labor intensive operation if done manually and I have done it previously for many years.

Even if you buy a small ice bagging stand to put the sand bag under you will save your self a huge amount of time otherwise because you will spill a lot of material with a flat or digging shovel because you have to AIM it into the mouth of the the bag.

That is also why I suggested the pails from Ropak as they will be reuseable EVERY YEAR and you can store salt sand mixes with no issues.

Just be sure you use a millers knot to tie the bags or you will regret it later.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt etc.............*



Kwise;1130675 said:


> I've been kicking around this idea too. What I'm thinking is build a bin to keep in the truck bed and have the salt dumped right into that. Then shovel into my tailgate spreader. If I keep it tarped, should be ok? Anyone else try this?


unless you use a bin that is moisture resistant you will have some difficulty; you could line a small wooden bin with the plastic pig panels but by the time its done you could buy a plastic bin from "Rubbermaid" and make it a salt/sand bin and simply have a supply of rice to dump in the salt to keep it free flowing.


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## Kwise (Sep 24, 2009)

leon;1130712 said:


> unless you use a bin that is moisture resistant you will have some difficulty; you could line a small wooden bin with the plastic pig panels but by the time its done you could buy a plastic bin from "Rubbermaid" and make it a salt/sand bin and simply have a supply of rice to dump in the salt to keep it free flowing.


I've been told bulk salt will not flow through a tailgate spreader. Is it a different consistency than bagged? Does rice help it flow or is it there just to absorb moisture? I would think if I can manage to keep the salt dry I should be able to shovel it into my tailgate spreader. Thanks for the advice


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Dailylc;1129921 said:


> This year we are trying something new. Sandbags! The reason we are doing this is, once filled we can tie them shut and they are much more compact and easy to handle.
> I will post a couple pics later. James


The problem with sandbags is that they break down in the UV light. I tried sandbags for my ballast a couple of years ago and left them in the back of my truck for most of the winter. By the end of the winter they were starting to fall apart.

If you can keep them in a place with no light until you need them, then you'll probably be OK.



Kwise;1130740 said:


> I've been told bulk salt will not flow through a tailgate spreader. Is it a different consistency than bagged? Does rice help it flow or is it there just to absorb moisture? I would think if I can manage to keep the salt dry I should be able to shovel it into my tailgate spreader. Thanks for the advice


My only experience with this is that last year I tried running bulk through my push spreader on some side-walks to try it out.

The salt got wet and didn't want to flow out the spreader at all. I just ended up filling the spreader and took a cup to scoop it out and throw it.


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

markkps;1129615 said:


> I was wondering if anyone has experience buying bulk salt, then loading it in your own 50lb bags?
> 
> I have looked at the costs, and the per bag price including labor for bagging will still be less then what I am paying for 50lb bags a skid at a time from my supplier.
> 
> ...





markkps;1130466 said:


> Thanks to everyone for some great input!
> 
> LEON I respect your detailed thinking. I fortunately have a salt supplier nearby that I can get a bed load of salt (1 ton) and then I will bag right out of the bed until its gone. I have the bed tarpped so it does not corrode the bed.
> 
> ...





MARK SUPPLY;1130421 said:


> While you are filling buckets and bags saving pennies, I am out making dollars


All that work to save $100??......... I'm with Mark on this one!


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

MARK SUPPLY;1130421 said:


> While you are filling buckets and bags saving pennies, I am out making dollars


So your saying you wouldn't spend 20 bucks in labor to save over 100.00, thats insane! Times that by 10 storms....thats almost 1K!


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

MARK SUPPLY;1130421 said:


> , I am out making dollars


Doing what??


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Brian,
I wouldn't do it either..... Sounds like he's only using 2 tons for the season and I don't think he has "employees" to fill them (no insult intended)..... If your a one man operation and want to save the $100, fine (using your own back labor) .... I also think you'd spend more then $20 in labor (wages, insurances, your side of the taxes, workers comp... you get the idea) to fill 2 ton into 50 lbs bags (don't forget any wasted material)..... personally I'd find it more productive to follow up with my exsisting quotes, network with my current accounts, maybe knock on a few more doors (ya never know), advertise, maint on the equipment, or call around other places for better prices on materials... but thats just me.....

To the OP, good luck in either direction you go!


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

cretebaby;1130895 said:


> Doing what??


Exactly. Typically when I'm filling buckets with clearlane it's between storms...  So it takes some of my time away from PS, oh well...


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

wizardsr;1130936 said:


> So it takes some of my time away from PS, oh well...


Bite your tongue!.....:waving:


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt etc.............................*



Kwise;1130740 said:


> I've been told bulk salt will not flow through a tailgate spreader. Is it a different consistency than bagged? Does rice help it flow or is it there just to absorb moisture? I would think if I can manage to keep the salt dry I should be able to shovel it into my tailgate spreader. Thanks for the advice


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The person who told you this is mis-informed as all the Halite offered today is plus 30 mesh screened in size.

The issue is the delivery method as the spreadergate and disc are the bottleneck for Halite.

About plain white rice;

The rice aids in absorbing moisture but is better used in long term storage if desired and can be screened out with the salt fines if one wished to pursue its use.

The issue with the Halite sold since the early 1980's both is oversize crystals and undersize salt crystals and salt fines which will clog up a tail gate or walk behind drop spreader as the Halite is not uniform.

The suppliers are not obligated to remove the salt fines prior to baggingand the weight of the salt fines simply add to the tonnage.

The issue becomes a see-saw where you either have to reduce salt volume and add sand and windshield washer fluid or screen your salt before it enters the tail gate hopper for the reasons mentioned previously.

A screen box of 1/4 inch hardware cloth does wonders and will solve a lot of jamming problems as you are depending on gravity to do the work and the tail gate spreaders are simply a convenience item for sales and the construction of them is easy with fiberglass or injection molded plastic

Bagged Halite is NOT treated with sodium ferro cyanide/no cake solutions which is sprayed on bulk salt as it is conveyed to rail cars or bulk stockpiles.

The bagged salt is taken from the run of mine salt prior to being rescreened for oversize and is not treated as it is not done for bagged Halite unless the bagging plan is equipped to deal with wet salt which messes up the bagging machines and the bagged salt sold is not a high volume item.

The use of solar salt eliminates the issues with salt fines and clogging but thats another road as solar salt is a high value product and is used the year round in water softeners and is consumed by both humans and livestock.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Kwise;1130740 said:


> I've been told bulk salt will not flow through a tailgate spreader. Is it a different consistency than bagged? Does rice help it flow or is it there just to absorb moisture? I would think if I can manage to keep the salt dry I should be able to shovel it into my tailgate spreader. Thanks for the advice


I am running bulk salt through my 575 Snowex without any trouble at all. I've spread several tons already this season.

Just keep your supply dry and you should be fine.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Camden;1130986 said:


> I am running bulk salt through my 575 Snowex without any trouble at all. I've spread several tons already this season.
> 
> Just keep your supply dry and you should be fine.


Exactly or invest in a 200.00 karrier vibrator and be done with it, spread wet sand, salt or whatever.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Mick76;1130935 said:


> Brian,
> I wouldn't do it either..... Sounds like he's only using 2 tons for the season and I don't think he has "employees" to fill them (no insult intended)..... If your a one man operation and want to save the $100, fine (using your own back labor) .... I also think you'd spend more then $20 in labor (wages, insurances, your side of the taxes, workers comp... you get the idea) to fill 2 ton into 50 lbs bags (don't forget any wasted material)..... personally I'd find it more productive to follow up with my exsisting quotes, network with my current accounts, maybe knock on a few more doors (ya never know), advertise, maint on the equipment, or call around other places for better prices on materials... but thats just me.....
> 
> To the OP, good luck in either direction you go!


Well if its 2 tons for the season then yeah a waste of time. But when we did this a couple years ago it only took me about an hour to fill 20 bags myself and load them up but I know, I'm an animal. lol


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## deere615 (Jun 1, 2007)

I have ran bulk through my snowex 575 it had a bit of trouble because the salt was wet once I got the vibrator hooked up it had no problem at all


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## Kwise (Sep 24, 2009)

Camden;1130986 said:


> I am running bulk salt through my 575 Snowex without any trouble at all. I've spread several tons already this season.
> 
> Just keep your supply dry and you should be fine.


I don't want to hear about already spreading several tons of salt this season. It's gonna be 52 and rain tomorrow in Ohio.

How do you handle the bulk salt? Do you have it loaded into a bin on your truck, or do you bag everything and handle it that way? If so, what kind of bags do you use?


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Kwise;1131308 said:


> How do you handle the bulk salt? Do you have it loaded into a bin on your truck, or do you bag everything and handle it that way? If so, what kind of bags do you use?


Right there is my biggest problem. I have no clear way of easily loading the salt. We are loading it by hand using scoop shovels. After the 8th fill you begin to think that there has to be an easier way.

I thought about using a small grain auger but then the question becomes "How do I pour the salt into the hopper of the auger?". I'm beginning to think I have to go back to a vbox spreader and then load with a skid steer.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Camden;1131467 said:


> Right there is my biggest problem. I have no clear way of easily loading the salt. We are loading it by hand using scoop shovels. After the 8th fill you begin to think that there has to be an easier way.
> 
> I thought about using a small grain auger but then the question becomes "How do I pour the salt into the hopper of the auger?". I'm beginning to think I have to go back to a vbox spreader and then load with a skid steer.


God, I don't miss those days,lol The only thing good for getting out of your truck is the cold air wakes you up for a bit. One thing I ran into a few times is when shoveling the salt in, sometimes the salt was frozen in places and a few times a small frozen piece would get logged in the auger and cause all kinds of problems.


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## turfman59 (Nov 18, 2008)

We use a grain auger and a conveyor at times the auger moves very fast I mean 2 guys can load 2 trucks, about 3200 lbs in 30 minutes, We use tailgate spreaders and for back up we use 90 lb totes for refilling never had any problems and I really love the savings


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## turfman59 (Nov 18, 2008)

Didnt have any help today loaded a tailgate spreader with 800 lbs in about 8 minutes..could have been faster but I couldnt keep up with the auger...got a new hopper coming for it next week it will allow material to stay full longer and flow on its own towards the auger...this is really a poor boy set up but I really grin when I turn it on and watch it flowing into the the hoppers..We use a screen to keep stones out of the material


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

i was in a pinch years ago, we still had bulk salt and the spreaders to do it, but i had a situation with a few guys taking trucks home that going back to the pile wasnt really on the way so...

we used buckets. and the reasoning was simple.... set 20 buckets on the ground, then take the bobcat, dump a few scoops....yes it spills all over the floor. put lids on buckets, load into truck, use machine to push spilled salt back towards the pile. 2 guys , 20 buckets, less than 10 mins...longest part was seperating the buckets from one another.

anyone that doesnt have their "own" pile.... if you buy it form a supplier or from a friend.....i would buy enough and fill enough buckets to last you for at least 1 full snow event....at least if you pull up and they arnt open, or out of salt, you have a back up.


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## turfman59 (Nov 18, 2008)

If I owned a skid steer it would be on a job site plowing or piling or doing sidewalks or some other task,probably not loading salt, 15K machine waiting to fill a tailgate spreader cant be the best use of its time>>


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## cdqat1432 (Dec 3, 2010)

I really like your idea, Elite. I read this thread yesterday and it really got me thinking. I charge (to other landscapers) 95.00 per ton of bulk salt, 40 50 pound buckets would be 2.38/each. The buckets are 5.84/each. With your labor saving idea, you could fill maybe 120 buckets an hour (labor and skid steer would be 102.50/hour (labor 2 @65 + 38/hr bobcat) or .85/bucket. You would have to initially charge only 9.07/bucket and then 3.23 for every refill to make your rate. I would think that most people would be willing to pay 5.00 for a refill, though. Other posters said that it is not worth their time or that the skid steer is not there, out working, but I would fill buckets when it is not snowing, so therefore, the labor is there and the skid steer is available, no? I just have to see if the customers would be willing to buy the buckets.

This would be a really good idea when the hardware stores run out of salt in late Feb or March, like they usually do.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

cdqat1432;1171307 said:


> I really like your idea, Elite. I read this thread yesterday and it really got me thinking. I charge (to other landscapers) 95.00 per ton of bulk salt, 40 50 pound buckets would be 2.38/each. The buckets are 5.84/each. With your labor saving idea, you could fill maybe 120 buckets an hour (labor and skid steer would be 102.50/hour (labor 2 @65 + 38/hr bobcat) or .85/bucket. You would have to initially charge only 9.07/bucket and then 3.23 for every refill to make your rate. I would think that most people would be willing to pay 5.00 for a refill, though. Other posters said that it is not worth their time or that the skid steer is not there, out working, but I would fill buckets when it is not snowing, so therefore, the labor is there and the skid steer is available, no? I just have to see if the customers would be willing to buy the buckets.
> 
> This would be a really good idea when the hardware stores run out of salt in late Feb or March, like they usually do.


I can't see paying $5 for a refill when bags are only $4.


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## turfman59 (Nov 18, 2008)

cdqat1432;1171307 said:


> I really like your idea, Elite. I read this thread yesterday and it really got me thinking. I charge (to other landscapers) 95.00 per ton of bulk salt, 40 50 pound buckets would be 2.38/each. The buckets are 5.84/each. With your labor saving idea, you could fill maybe 120 buckets an hour (labor and skid steer would be 102.50/hour (labor 2 @65 + 38/hr bobcat) or .85/bucket. You would have to initially charge only 9.07/bucket and then 3.23 for every refill to make your rate. I would think that most people would be willing to pay 5.00 for a refill, though. Other posters said that it is not worth their time or that the skid steer is not there, out working, but I would fill buckets when it is not snowing, so therefore, the labor is there and the skid steer is available, no? I just have to see if the customers would be willing to buy the buckets.
> 
> This would be a really good idea when the hardware stores run out of salt in late Feb or March, like they usually do.


Its still going to freeze into a block of salt unless you treat it with Ferro cyanide...and let me tell you its a waste of time


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## cdqat1432 (Dec 3, 2010)

I will have to check on the bagged price, because four dollars seems a little low, but ok I could still do well with four dollars. Also, the salt we get is dry. It cant freeze.


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## cdqat1432 (Dec 3, 2010)

I dont think I would want to work with anything cyanide.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

turfman59;1171494 said:


> Its still going to freeze into a block of salt unless you treat it with Ferro cyanide...and let me tell you its a waste of time


Sodium Ferro Cyanide The only issues with anti caking agent with regard 
to the Material Safety Data Sheet designation for Sodium Ferro Cyanide
is sneezing if the user mixing the Sodium Ferro Cyanide without the aid of 
a personal pretective device such as a form fitting high quality dust mask 
for "Respirable Dusts and Mists".


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

I never had a problem with frozen buckets...but we made sure that the salt was dry. They sat out side just fine in sub zero temps, note we did not use treated salt. Just plain rock salt

I think we figured a bucket held about 47 lbs on average.......we got the buckets with olds for less than 2.50 each set from a painting supply store, We did it because 2.30 per bucket refill was better than 4.15 per bag. And bagged salt was in short supply at the time

For those that say plow snow, or skid steer this or that...we did it in down time, and I had a guy on salary...so the money was spent either way.

I honestly don't think you could make it work reselling it. I would say at most 2 guys plus 1 operator, might be able to load up, seal, and stack 60-80 per hour, and given the choice I'd rather pay the 4.15 per bag that I pay now then even $3.50 for a bucket refill......it worked in house for us because we could cut cost in half, but anything less I'd rather just buy the bags


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## turfman59 (Nov 18, 2008)

I doubt in the end that you cut the cost in half, and if you could then reselling would be an option.Like you said it works in House and its not for everyone,but when you use 50 tons a year less than a mile away from your facility it makes sense to me. It only takes the first dollar to make a million.


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