# gmc 4500 compared to ford f650.



## ole hiefier (Oct 15, 2003)

I'm looking for some imformation on the Gmc 4500, the vortec 8100 series v-8. Compared to the cat in the f650 and the Allison 1000 in the Gmc. We feed fat cattle and I need more power than I have now so I'm comparing the two. I like the Fords, but they are so pricey. Please enlighten me.


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

You're comparing apples to oranges here, these are two trucks from entirely different classes. Also, the engines you are comparing are two different animals as well.

While I don't know specific specs of either motor, it's easy to assume the gas engine will have more horsepower, but the diesel will most likely have double the torque rating of the gas job. Torque is what moves your truck and pulls your load.

Remember the old saying "You get what you pay for"?.....


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## ole hiefier (Oct 15, 2003)

Sooooo, Your telling me that the vortec 8100 series v8 is a gas job? They do make a diesel right? How many horses does this 8100 have? Whats the diesel engine?


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## myo (Dec 2, 2002)

Yup they make a diesel.

The 8.1 liter is a gas engine and has 340 hp and 455 ft lb of torque and the duramax 6.6 liter diesel has 300 hp and 520 ft lb of torque

I just went to GMC website and looked at the 4500, and it says that the 8.1 liter gas engine has 325 hp and 450 ft lb of torque.


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

My comparison was between the Vortec and the Cat. Again, apples and oranges.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I'm pretty sure you can get the Cummins B series in the larger F-series trucks.It is a much better motor than the Cat.


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## ole hiefier (Oct 15, 2003)

I did some research too and they say you can get a Cat engine in the larger sized Gmcs. Now tell me why I don't want a Cat engine.. A Cummins B?? We have 7.3 diesel (Ford). My husband takes the semi and I take the pickup and stock trailer to haul fat cattle to market and you all know the saying " If you ain't the lead dog the scenery never changes. Not only that I slow the semi down, we try to stay together.. I appreciate your imformation...


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

The Cat is a little underpowered,and considered a throwaway motor.The Cummins ISB 5.9 is available in a few different power levels,and is a great little motor.It can easily be turned up too,unlike the Cat.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

I have to agree with the cummings they are a great engine and that is an option for the 650's the only diesel you can get in the 4500-5500 is the duramax v8 6.6L and not the inline six 7.8.


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## ole hiefier (Oct 15, 2003)

What's a throwaway motor?? My husband will like you, He runs Cumins... What do you base your opionion on... For example... What about upkeep Ford- Gmc, And what has the better comfort cab. It really gripes me to have squeeks and rattles.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Throwaway basically means non-rebuildable.Once it wears out,you buy a new motor,not a remanufactured one.Big $$$$ if your keeping it for the long haul,and put a lot of miles on it.

The Cummins B series has been around a long time,and has been well proven for durability,longetivity,and good power.My opinion is based on owning almost 50 Cummins B series over the years,and servicing\repairing,and hotrodding hundreds more.You can turn a Cummins way up,and it will handle it no problem.Quite cheap to do so too.Turn up a Cat,which can be done but you don't gain much,and you'll be picking up the pieces as the engine grenades itself.


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## myo (Dec 2, 2002)

Like Pelican said, you are comparing a 650 to 4500, the GMC C6500 has many engine options to choose from.


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## ole hiefier (Oct 15, 2003)

Okay, you sold me on the cumins..And I certainly would consider a 6500... I feel that the F650 is a fad and that they are over priced, but I have No idea as you guys can see.. about Gmc and I WILL NOT OWN A DODGE....... Bacically I want a diesel engine with some snap, our roads are two lane and I have to be able to pass a vehicle and Not take 5 miles(joke) to do it. And then there are transmissions...... Allison or....... rear end ratios...


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

> the F650 is a fad


???

The 650 has been around for over 40 years, when do you suspect this fad will end?


> I WILL NOT OWN A DODGE.......


Lucky for you Dodge doesn't offer a truck in the class your looking at.

By what you've posted, I'm beginning to suspect your looking for a tow vehicle. You said you feed cattle, do you also haul them? What kind of weight do you expect to be pulling? As I mentioned before, your all over the board on these trucks here, the difference between them being GVWR. You say the 650 is over priced compared to the 4500, but it's an entirely different truck!

You ought to be comparing the F-450 to the 4500, they have nearly the same weight rating.


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## ole hiefier (Oct 15, 2003)

F650 is really what we want, but comparing the 450s and 550, which I don't think have enough size. with th 650s in price to me just doesn't make since to me. Why not just buy a semi... It seems to me 650s are the truck for racecar haulers and snowbirds.. which may very well be telling me something it's just hard to cough up $65.000 for a 650, when maybe there is a comparable Gmc. Thats all and the more educated I can be the better off for me. Yes we haul cattle, I pull a 24 ft stock trailer with the most I can get on is 12, 1250# steers. And the roads are two laned with plenty of hills the Missiouri river hills are really tough.... We leave at night and drive at night. There are no filling stations they are all closed up so I have been hauling my own fuel on the flat bed and stopping to pump fuel. With the Ford 350 I feel real vaulerable....


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Like Pelican said,the F650 is a totally different class of truck.You get MUCH bigger and stronger components,and built to haul the weight you need,hence the price difference.


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## Michael F (Oct 18, 2000)

If your really looking at the 650/6500 class. Why not look at International, freightliner or Sterlings to name a few?


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## ole hiefier (Oct 15, 2003)

Oh yeah I forgot to mention the 35 miles of gravel road( If that's what you want to call it....


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## ole hiefier (Oct 15, 2003)

Okay, that makes sense...Thats a good point for me to tell my husband, you guys are great... We have looked at the Frightliner fl60s and fl70s, Do you need a CDL? I've got one, but I'm really sour on10 and 13 speeds.. We have a Ford 900 or is 9000 can't remember, but it is a 13 speed with the first 3 gears are real low for the farm feilds and I can not drive that thing it's ugly... My thirteen old boy does for silage but I have a $$%# of a time.. I just want a big solid truck that I feel comfortable to drive. And if I don't get educated I'll end up with something I don't like and that is a real drag. Something I can back up and drive in traffic safely. Sometimes getting to the livestock market is no piece of cake.. Usually the streets are narrow and the area is not the best.. I have alot of respect for bull whackers..... I'm not familiar with the Sterlings please enlighten me...


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## Pelican (Nov 16, 2001)

Sterlings were formerly Ford heavy trucks, I believe they are now owned by Frieghtliner.

The 4500 Chevy doesn't offer the weight capacity you need, you might squeak by with the 5500 but have little margin for fuel. In any case, I think you'll be over the limit requiring a CDL.

You should be looking at the F-650, GM 6500, FL60, or what used to be IH's 4700. I don't know their new numbers.

Trucks are classed by their Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GVWR) and priced accordingly. You need to total up the weight of your load, trailer, truck, fuel, passengers and any luggage to determine your needs, then look for the appropriate truck. Each one of the manufacturers listed have websites, check them out to find the specs that are right for you.

The only one of the recent offerings I have experience with is the GM6500. It was a brand new gas powered rental, but I wasn't too impressed with it. The transmission was an allison and didn't seem matched properly to the engine, it was shifting at very odd rpms.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

The sterlings are basically the old ford L series line Like for example the L8000. They sit high and have a big windshield and you can out fit these truck with a big old Allison if you want you do not have to get a stick.But as true truck guys will tell you better to get when towing alot of weight plus for stopping.International seams to have a nice interior as do all the medium duty trucks with alot of different engine and tranny options.What you should do is make a list
1. gvw needed
2.engine HP
3.hydraulic or air brakes
4.transmission
5. lo profile or regular hight
6.pintal ,fithwheel.
7 what type of body you will want flatbed,dump,tractor.
ETC.


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## ole hiefier (Oct 15, 2003)

I wrote down all this that you guys have told me so now I feel like i'm alittle more prepared to go shopping... YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST AND I REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOUR ADVISE. I will let you know how i turned out...THANK YOU....


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## turfguy87 (Dec 23, 2008)

*CAT engine*



wyldman;105072 said:


> The Cat is a little underpowered,and considered a throwaway motor.The Cummins ISB 5.9 is available in a few different power levels,and is a great little motor.It can easily be turned up too,unlike the Cat.


Why aren't Cat engines rebuildable?


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## Stik208 (Oct 19, 2004)

This thread is almost 6 years old.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

turfguy87;853714 said:


> Why aren't Cat engines rebuildable?


Because he is dumb! They are. They are also available form 175-330hp same engine, cam, turbo, and programing is all that is different


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## turfguy87 (Dec 23, 2008)

*Cat engine rebuilds*

Are they more difficult than comparable engines to rebuild?


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## fireboy6413 (Sep 28, 2008)

You know one other question she had was the transmission, and know one commented on that so I will ALLISON baby, all the way, even though its 6 years later LOL


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## cf1128 (Jan 14, 2009)

ole hiefier;105105 said:


> F650 is really what we want, but comparing the 450s and 550, which I don't think have enough size. with th 650s in price to me just doesn't make since to me. Why not just buy a semi... It seems to me 650s are the truck for racecar haulers and snowbirds.. which may very well be telling me something it's just hard to cough up $65.000 for a 650, when maybe there is a comparable Gmc. Thats all and the more educated I can be the better off for me. Yes we haul cattle, I pull a 24 ft stock trailer with the most I can get on is 12, 1250# steers. And the roads are two laned with plenty of hills the Missiouri river hills are really tough.... We leave at night and drive at night. There are no filling stations they are all closed up so I have been hauling my own fuel on the flat bed and stopping to pump fuel. With the Ford 350 I feel real vaulerable....


I own a GMC with the Duramax, so I can give an honest opinion. We also own an F650 in our company, with the Cat. Air Brakes,Air seat. There is* NO* comparison in the two trucks you are looking at. The F650 is way more truck and it is not fair to compare the two.
BTW, GM I am pretty sure is out of the MiD size business, for 2009 anyway.


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## cf1128 (Jan 14, 2009)

Hahaha, this is an old thread, that's what I get for not sleeping!


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

old is an understatement the part that gets me is i read the whole thing and never looked at the dates.:laughing:


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