# Non studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta's, still worth the $$..?



## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

Just like the title suggests.. 
I hear everyone rave about these tires, however, every review or tube video shows them with studs.

Id like to hear some feedback on how they compare to the competition like, Blizzaks, I-pike's, Courser's, Discover M&S, etc.. (non studded of course)

When these expensive tires are non studded, do they loose their leverage over the competition or are they really that good?

Furthermore, how are all these options stacking up against the Kedge grip offered by Treadwright, I doubt the Kedge grip will beat out a studded snow, but if you take away the studs, does this kedge grip have the upper hand over the non studded options above?

Lastly, i see the nokians offered in rather large sizes for a snow tire, are these tires that good that the wider sizes will still be effective? I have a extra set of wheels i want to use this year, but they are a 17x10, which drastically limits my options for snow tires. Not quite sure if I'm gunna be able to get away with them. However, i do see the upfitter "arctic trucks" using these sizes on all their smaller models. My thinking is, the larger sizes accept my wheel width, so it's more of a question of drivability at that size. I know it goes agaisnt most snow tire ideology, but are these the exception to the rule?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

What are we going to use these tires on?


And a skinney tire is better than a wider tire.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

I was looking at the studded Hakkas
for my wife's Taurus, which came with 20" tires. They don't make her size though (aspect ratio part). I ended up using non-studded Blizzaks, which work great. Just looking at the treads, the Blizzaks look like they would work better than the Nokians, which look just a little too smooth treadwise. The Nokians were pretty expensive too.


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

@SnoFarmer..
They are going to go on my SRW 06 Ram 3500 with the heavy diesel and a 9-6 Mvp3.

I see these 285's and 315' being used by these arctic truck guys.. (not the huge expedition models, but the downsized models they sell for daily drivers in arctic areas)..

My main interests in a bigger tire is -
1. I have 4:10's in this 6 speed and reverse sooooo frigging slow. Going up in size will help with that, but i can only go up with going wider. 
2. Just happen to have these wide wheels kicking around that only will work with a wider tire (according to the tire specs, most spec got 8in wheels).
3. I have these stupid fender flares from the PO that look rediculous with typical winter sizes.

It would be great if i could get more speed out of reverse without having to use a mud terrain or all terrain because of sizing limitations. However i am extremely tempted to try the kedge grip out. I just dont see enough plowing related reviews from guys who have used both dedicated snows and the kedge system.

What i have now are the copper at3's.. you heard good reviews all over on these.. including here..
However, these were the worst tires I've ever driven on in the winter.. i could not go anywhere, at anytime, without 4x4.. that's without the plow on too, with the plow forget it..not even moving, and these were new at the time too.


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## Weanis (Feb 2, 2011)

The Nokian tires are awesome tires, at my business we sell mostly Nokian and Cooper tires. I have Nokian tires on all of my vehicles and will never use anything else again. The traction is absolutely unbeatable. On my plow truck I used to run the Cooper AT3's and they did OK but I kept getting stuck in the same loading dock. I mounted up a set of the Nokian Rotiva AT Plus tires and that same loading dock has never been an issue since. Nokian tires are molded out of almost 100% silica compounds and do not get hard or freeze when the temperatures get so cold. They are the only company in the world that knows how to mold a tire out of almost 100% silica compound. I was lucky enough to go to Finland and drive some new Audi's on there "White Hell" ice tracks. You will not be disappointed with the Nokian Hakkapelita tires.


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

seville009 said:


> I was looking at the studded Hakkas
> for my wife's Taurus, which came with 20" tires. They don't make her size though (aspect ratio part). I ended up using non-studded Blizzaks, which work great. Just looking at the treads, the Blizzaks look like they would work better than the Nokians, which look just a little too smooth treadwise. The Nokians were pretty expensive too.


Oh there it is.. the quote button.. new layout has me learning here..

So your saying you didn't like the design of the Nokians.. You know, not for nothing Seville, but i was thinking the same thing, like right of the bat when i saw them.. but i just came across a artucal i cant seem to find again, where nokians were being touted as one of the first dedicated snow tire manufacturers who nailed down the science of a "Low Void Snow Tire". In other words, the opposite tread pattern that you would typically see in a Cooper MS or Hercules Xtreme Avalance..

Idk.. im trying not to fall into the mindset of only "xyz style" will work because if that was the case if be buying a duratrac or m/t style over everything... There's gotta be a reason these guys like Nokian picked the pattern over a more traditional style, right?


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

Weanis said:


> The Nokian tires are awesome tires, at my business we sell mostly Nokian and Cooper tires. I have Nokian tires on all of my vehicles and will never use anything else again. The traction is absolutely unbeatable. On my plow truck I used to run the Cooper AT3's and they did OK but I kept getting stuck in the same loading dock. I mounted up a set of the Nokian Rotiva AT Plus tires and that same loading dock has never been an issue since. Nokian tires are molded out of almost 100% silica compounds and do not get hard or freeze when the temperatures get so cold. They are the only company in the world that knows how to mold a tire out of almost 100% silica compound. I was lucky enough to go to Finland and drive some new Audi's on there "White Hell" ice tracks. You will not be disappointed with the Nokian Hakkapelita tires.


Ahhh ic.. you used the AT3 as well and got stuck in the same spot over and over again. Same here, same driveways over and over again.. weight made no difference, just kept sliding.. so irritating! I actually slide into a shed with my tail last year.. this was on a completely level driveway too. So [email protected]#$!!

Pretty cool that you got to drive those courses. We're you able to drive anything with a wider width? How do you think the unstudded larger sizes would fair against a treadwright with the kedge grip?

Any reason you choose the Rotiva over a dedicated Winter offering from them? I know the Rotiva does have a snow rating, but i would assume their winter offerings would have the upper hand..


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

jimmycrackcorn said:


> Oh there it is.. the quote button.. new layout has me learning here..
> 
> So your saying you didn't like the design of the Nokians.. You know, not for nothing Seville, but i was thinking the same thing, like right of the bat when i saw them.. but i just came across a artucal i cant seem to find again, where nokians were being touted as one of the first dedicated snow tire manufacturers who nailed down the science of a "Low Void Snow Tire". In other words, the opposite tread pattern that you would typically see in a Cooper MS or Hercules Xtreme Avalance..
> 
> Idk.. im trying not to fall into the mindset of only "xyz style" will work because if that was the case if be buying a duratrac or m/t style over everything... There's gotta be a reason these guys like Nokian picked the pattern over a more traditional style, right?


It's not that I don't like the Nokian design; it's just that, to me, the Blizzak tread looks a bit more aggressive. Tons of tread designs, tons of choices.....

I run studded Duratracs on my dedicated plow truck, and studded Cooper M&S on my dailydriver truck. I have worn out Duratracs for my summer tires (non studded, of course) that I will be replacing with General Grabber AT2's next week. I looked at the Treadrights you mentioned, and the tread pattern is almost identical to the Grabbers. I've never used them before, so we'll see how they do.

Lots of choices/options.....


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## Weanis (Feb 2, 2011)

Yes it was an awesome experience going to there testing facilitys, I was just looking at old photos of it, but have no idea how to post them on, it keeps saying file to large?

I drove an Audi A4, Audi RS4, and Audi Q5. I they were all lower profile wider tires on them. They do not have any pick up trucks they were testing the Rotiva's on when I was there. We tested the Hakkapeliitta R2 SUV, Hakkapeliitta 8 SUV studded and non studded.

I am not familiar at all with the treadwright with kedge grip.

I chose the Rotiva over a dedicated snow tire because Nokian does not have a dedicated snow tire in my size. A few of the friends I plow with have dedicated Blizzaks and my Rotiva out performs them and I can leave them on all year around. 

I also run the Nokian Rotiva's on my 3/4 ton diesel daily driver even tho I store it in the winter months and run the Nokian WR G3 SUV on my wife's SUV for the winter.


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## Weanis (Feb 2, 2011)

seville009 said:


> It's not that I don't like the Nokian design; it's just that, to me, the Blizzak tread looks a bit more aggressive. Tons of tread designs, tons of choices.....
> 
> I run studded Duratracs on my dedicated plow truck, and studded Cooper M&S on my dailydriver truck. I have worn out Duratracs for my summer tires (non studded, of course) that I will be replacing with General Grabber AT2's next week. I looked at the Treadrights you mentioned, and the tread pattern is almost identical to the Grabbers. I've never used them before, so we'll see how they do.
> 
> Lots of choices/options.....


Give the Nokian's a try, you will not be disappointed!! Once you try them, I'm confident you'll switch over to them on all of your vehicles!


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

seville009 said:


> I run studded Duratracs on my dedicated plow truck, and studded Cooper M&S on my dailydriver truck. I have worn out Duratracs for my summer tires (non studded, of course) that I will be replacing with General Grabber AT2's next week. I looked at the Treadrights you mentioned, and the tread pattern is almost identical to the Grabbers. I've never used them before, so we'll see how they do.
> 
> Lots of choices/options.....


Yes indeed, alot of choices..
So, how did your Coopers compare to the studded Duratracs.

Also, do you plow residentially with the studded tires? If so, have you seen any damage or complaints?



Weanis said:


> Yes it was an awesome experience going to there testing facilitys, I was just looking at old photos of it, but have no idea how to post them on, it keeps saying file to large?
> 
> I drove an Audi A4, Audi RS4, and Audi Q5. I they were all lower profile wider tires on them. They do not have any pick up trucks they were testing the Rotiva's on when I was there. We tested the Hakkapeliitta R2 SUV, Hakkapeliitta 8 SUV studded and non studded.
> 
> ...


You probably need to use a photo server to upload oics to here. Something like Photobucket or a Cloud type service, just somewhere you can link them from.

So your Non dedicated Nokians ran better than your freinds Blizzaks?? No kidding, thats a big statement. Do you recall which blizzaks they were using? Would you happen to know if they were the blizzak 965's or a different model. Id be curious to know which ones as i saw an article over at a truck blog which did a real scientific shootout which included 4 or 5 different brands winter LT offering's. Two of which were Nokian and Blizzak, they rated them around a track similar to what id assume that "White Hell" track was like. The Blizzak 965 came out on top of the Nokian, the Michelin and the other trailed far behind the those two to contenders..

What size tire is it that they didn't have?


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## Weanis (Feb 2, 2011)

I'm not sure which blizzard they were but will find out this week. 

I looked for lt265/75/16, lt285/75/16, and lt235/85/16 which is what I went with because they were tall and skinny. 

Google Nokian Tires White Hell. A few YouTube videos and information on there test tracks. It's quite interesting.


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

Weanis said:


> I'm not sure which blizzard they were but will find out this week.
> 
> I looked for lt265/75/16, lt285/75/16, and lt235/85/16 which is what I went with because they were tall and skinny.
> 
> Google Nokian Tires White Hell. A few YouTube videos and information on there test tracks. It's quite interesting.


Yes, i was just looking at an article about that.

Which model were you looking for in 16? The Hakka's lt2? They seem to have all those sizes.. not all e rated though. Maybe I'm looking at a different model than you were..

Yes, if you can, find out what model your freinds were using. That would be greatly appreciated.

That tire shootout i was referencing was at a blog called "hard working trucks" with post title "winter tire shootout". It's rather long, but pretty scientific.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

jimmycrackcorn said:


> Yes indeed, alot of choices..
> So, how did your Coopers compare to the studded Duratracs.
> 
> Also, do you plow residentially with the studded tires? If so, have you seen any damage or complaints?


I'm just a personal plower - large country driveway along with my neighbors driveway. I prefer the Duratracs for plowing because of the deep lugs. No issues with the studs, even with spinning tires (lot of shaded areas with ice). The Coopers are better for daily road driving - seem to have a better grip on packed roads than the Duratracs.


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## Weanis (Feb 2, 2011)

jimmycrackcorn said:


> Yes, i was just looking at an article about that.
> 
> Which model were you looking for in 16? The Hakka's lt2? They seem to have all those sizes.. not all e rated though. Maybe I'm looking at a different model than you were.


I've never seen the Hakka LT2, and my tire supplier can't get them because they are a studded tire. In Michigan we are not allowed to use studded tires. Every tire they list I can't get, because not all models are sold in the U.S. The models on the east side of the U.S. are different from the models sold on the west side of the county and vice Versa because of the different weather and terrain.


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

Weanis said:


> I've never seen the Hakka LT2, and my tire supplier can't get them because they are a studded tire. In Michigan we are not allowed to use studded tires. Every tire they list I can't get, because not all models are sold in the U.S. The models on the east side of the U.S. are different from the models sold on the west side of the county and vice Versa because of the different weather and terrain.


Oh you haven't seen them.. ok no prob. 
As far as the east west thing, as long as I'm looking at the US catalog, i should be seeing all the tires available to the USA, correct?

Any word on those models from Blizzak?


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## JFon101231 (Dec 5, 2008)

I ran Nokian LT on my old 02 GMC. They were certainly better than a non-snow tire, but I can't say I was blown away either. Compared to the difference (Firestone) snow tires made on my wifes car, I was expecting more. I still got stuck if I did something I "shouldn't"... 

If I get back into plowing with this truck, I plan to try the KedgeGrip


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

JFon101231 said:


> I ran Nokian LT on my old 02 GMC. They were certainly better than a non-snow tire, but I can't say I was blown away either. Compared to the difference (Firestone) snow tires made on my wifes car, I was expecting more. I still got stuck if I did something I "shouldn't"...
> 
> If I get back into plowing with this truck, I plan to try the KedgeGrip


Interesting.. i want to avoid being stuck at all costs.

I'm very curious about the kedge grip system. It just seems...idk... brilliant..


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

Not for nothing JFon, but that's my main concern with not getting an aggressive tire like the Treadwrights or a Duratrac.. I fear if i do slide off a step drive with your typical skinny low void snow tire, I'm gunna be done for and waiting on a buddy or wrecker. Uggh so many variables to consider. 

It's harder decision for me as I've never boughten a dedicated snow before either.. I've always had ATs or a MT on my 4x4 daily drivers. The one time i experienced winters was on my old man's Lincoln LS.. he had bought a set of Blizzaks. Granted it was rear wheel drive, so you couldn't ask for much, but needless to say, i barley noticed the difference. That's another concern, go spend big coin on a dedicated Winter like the Nokians in a size i like, a and have them be only "OK", whereas if I'm going to settle on "ok", i might as well get the treadwright that I'll run year round..

Hoping more will come in with they're dedicated snow tires experiences.

Oh.. also, i just noticed where i posted this... Dohh!
If a mod wants to move it to wherever, please do.


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## Weanis (Feb 2, 2011)

jimmycrackcorn said:


> Oh you haven't seen them.. ok no prob.
> As far as the east west thing, as long as I'm looking at the US catalog, i should be seeing all the tires available to the USA, correct?
> 
> Any word on those models from Blizzak?


I am suppose to hear from him tomorrow and then I'll ask him which model of Blizzaks he has.

Not every tire in the US catalog is available everywhere in the US. Can you direct me to the catalog your looking at??


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## Weanis (Feb 2, 2011)

JFon101231 said:


> I ran Nokian LT on my old 02 GMC. They were certainly better than a non-snow tire, but I can't say I was blown away either. Compared to the difference (Firestone) snow tires made on my wifes car, I was expecting more. I still got stuck if I did something I "shouldn't"...
> 
> If I get back into plowing with this truck, I plan to try the KedgeGrip


What model Nokian LT's did you have?


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## JFon101231 (Dec 5, 2008)

I think they were just the LT. I was expecting the lt2 but they didnt have them or couldnt get them, forget which


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## Weanis (Feb 2, 2011)

JFon101231 said:


> I think they were just the LT. I was expecting the lt2 but they didnt have them or couldnt get them, forget which


Those Hakka LTs that you had were introduced in 2001. That's super old technology compared to what they produce now!

There was 1 line of Firestone snow tires about 6 or 7 years ago that were absolutely awesome but for some reason they only made them for a couple years.


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

Weanis said:


> I am suppose to hear from him tomorrow and then I'll ask him which model of Blizzaks he has.
> 
> Not every tire in the US catalog is available everywhere in the US. Can you direct me to the catalog your looking at??


Which catalog... It is the PDF download from Nokians Website. Im assuming that its just a digital carbon copy of the catalog i would receive here in the USA.



Weanis said:


> Those Hakka LTs that you had were introduced in 2001. That's super old technology compared to what they produce now!
> 
> There was 1 line of Firestone snow tires about 6 or 7 years ago that were absolutely awesome but for some reason they only made them for a couple years.


You know... I cant stand that, something really good gets produced and then Axed. I will say, the Firestone Winterforce LT... "looks"... as if it would be a really good tire. The tread pattern seems to have that directional block type of design with generous voids where it seems as if it could be alright in the the scenario of needing to dig out if a situation. If those were available to fit the 17x10 in wheel i mentioned in my OP, i would probably buy them in a heartbeat, but they don't. They stop in the 17 range at a 265, IIRC.

Another thing that gets me is the Severe Service Rating, the "3 Peak Snow Flake" emblem. From what i understand, a tire company only needs to prove a tire has 10% more traction than other comparable models in that line in a "straight line traction test".. If it's a M/T that sucks in the snow and they just throw some sipes in it, that could most likley be enough to gain a 10% increase, meanwhile that tire still blows in the snow. To me, a 10% increase sets the bar pretty low for things to qualify..


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## JFon101231 (Dec 5, 2008)

Weanis said:


> Those Hakka LTs that you had were introduced in 2001. That's super old technology compared to what they produce now!


I put them on the truck around 2012 or 2013. My memory sucks but I think it was right around when the LT2 was coming out? For whatever reason I had a hard time finding Nokian at all, had to drive to Mass. Or maybe they only had the LT2 studded? Either way, after the first winter I tried to sell the LT so I could try the LT2 but couldn't get enough $ for them to justify it so used them another year or 2 then sold the truck.


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## JFon101231 (Dec 5, 2008)

PS - I ran a 235/85 on steel 16x7 wheel. Skinny is better


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

JFon101231 said:


> PS - I ran a 235/85 on steel 16x7 wheel. Skinny is better


Your talking about the Nokian LT's you had, they were the skinnies?

So, question to all...what do you think i should take away from this thread.. my original question was basically, are the non studded still worth the higher price point.. If they are not, i think i may just go with a different brand all together..

Man, i wish the guys i plow with had some info, but the guy i plow for runs his complete landscaping fleet on Duratracs and that style tires. I've seen him go, the truck pushes the snow very well.. even running his 810 fully extended uphill after pushing the length of a parking lot. Theyre wide too, well wide in a sense of using them as snow tires, their 285/75r16 ran on the stock 8 lug Chevy wheels..

Going back to one of my original questions (trying to use a 17x10 wheel with winter tires), I wonder what would happen if he went with a wider wheel on top of the tires not being a typical snow tire.? Would his performance be affected?

Which brings us back to the skinny vs normal vs wider, discussion. If skinny is the consensus, why does his rig go so well in the snow running a 11"+ wide tire.. is it because his wheels are super slim, which could put the load on the right spots of the tires? He also runs minimal ballast too, which racks my brain, i just don't understand how he gets away with the wide m/t's, a heavy 810 and minimal ballast.


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## Weanis (Feb 2, 2011)

The Blizzaks he has are the w965 model.


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

Weanis said:


> The Blizzaks he has are the w965 model.


Oh wow.. the w965's.. i was expecting to hear you mention a different model, which, idk, maybe something like a D rated selection as there are a bunch of different blizzaks with varying tread patterns. However, I was under the impression the 965's were the alpha dog out of all the brand's LT selections, kinda impart due to the article that's listed below... Unfortunatley, they just don't come in the size I'm looking for..

So, earlier on in the thread i mentioned a blog/article i read on a winter tire shootout that i couldnt recall our didn't post a link to... well here it is..

http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/snow-tires/

If yall don't have the time to view, here's the conclusion

**KINGS OF COLD**

While the Hakkapeliittas and Ultra Grip Ice WRTs were locked in frosty competition, Bridgestone's W965s powdered their treads.

The W965s had far better acceleration and braking numbers than either of the competitors, and worked noticeably better on the heavy GMC Sierra Crew Cab diesel around the road course.

The Blizzaks laps 10 seconds quicker than the Nokians, 7 seconds faster than the Goodyear WRT, and 23 seconds better than the SR-As.

"This is the first time I've tested a W965," says Spitzner. "We use them on our school's bus and on our F-250 we use for plowing the road courses here. But, no one has ever done hot laps in the bus or the Ford. So this test was an eye-opener for me.

"What amazed me the most about the W965, is the grip and acceleration," Spitzner says.



























________________________________________________

Now... A little disclosure here.. although this tire shootout was done with a bunch of control items and actual scientificb testing equipment, it was done at Bridgestones Winter Driving School. Could it be slanted somehow to show the Blizzaks as the top contender? I guess anything is possible, but i think that would be almost as hard as passing a polygraph while lying.. scientific equipment usually doesn't lie.

Also, it looks as if the Nokians they used were the Hakka LT1's, not the LT2's, which when compared look totally different in tread pattern.

Interesting note here, these guys doing the testing reached out to numerous different companies, however, only the tested above were willing to participate. I find that rather odd as you would think these companies would want to be shown in a shootout like this, where it's not just opinion, but scientific processes involved. Who knows though, it could have just been cooperate red tape keeping them from joining the party.

Id really be curious to see the Cooper MS/Mastercraft MSR in this test along with the updated Hakka LT2.

Let me know what you guys think..
Was it a fair test?


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

Bump


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## jimmycrackcorn (Dec 28, 2013)

Hey Yall.. i thought I'd update with what i ended up with..

After much thought, procrastination, going back and forth.. I ended up just going down to my local Town Fair Tire. I'll tell you, much much much to my suprise, the guy i dealt with was a tire guru.. The guy really should be working at a manufacturer. He was very knowledgeable on the different compounds used within manufacturers, obviously sizing, what to expect with different wheel widths, everything.. He heard my considerations about the Nokians, MSR's, Firestone's, Duratracs etc.. and suggested i go with the MasterCraft MSR. I was still on the fence as to whether i should use my 17x10 wheels or my 18x9's. I ended up getting the tallest size i could find in the 18's, 275/70/18. Which calculates into a 33x11 or something like that.

I'll tell you what.... Holy Smokes!!! I could not believe the difference when plowing! Last year i had just about brand new cooper at3's 275/65/18 and i could not gain traction for the life of me, not even with 1k in the bed!!! I slid off about 5 driveways and once i crammed my rear quarter into a shed! This was all using the AT3's which are actually supposed to be good in the snow!! BS... Never I my life had i slid off a driveway plowing before using those tires. 

Now that i have these MSR's..... The first push of the year I was doing a brand new route and i was able to push 90% of it in 2wd!!!! Yes, 2wd!!! I always hear stories about guys pushing with 2wd and i always say to my self "no way in hell".. not any more though, i believe it, but only with winter tires. Just fyi, this wasn't some uncontrolled 2wd pushing either, completely controlled, no fish tailing, no sliding, plowing. Even with a little forward momentum i was able to push uphill on one of these drives that are an immediate incline off the street and that's straight bladed too at 9-6, I wasn't even in "V". That was about it though, it wasn't a ton of snow, nor was i stacking. I noticed the next storm i had to use 4 wheel to push stuff back. Still never the less... very impressive to me. As far as cost goes, the guy was able to beat anyone's prices by 5%. Sooo if memory serves me correct, i believe i payed something like 750 out the door. Which i thought was a good deal as a consumer without tire connections. This came with free mount balance alignment, as well as, rotations winter/summer change overs and some sort if road hazard warranty. I thought this was a way better deal then paying a little less online and then having to pay out of pocket for all the listed above.

Also, these tires have served me so well so far i wouldn't hesitate to go with a wider wheel setup or wider selection. If the Nokians are rated/reviewed just as good as these MSR's, i think i may buy the Hakka LT2 in 315/70/17 next winter and use my wider wheels. (Basically do what i wanted to do I originally as i don't like my existing 18x9's, too blingy.)

The only downside.... and this is going to be typical with any winter tire.. is the wear.. i can see how they will wear very quickly if warm out. It hasn't exactly been very cold out lately and i can see a bit of wear already.. However, on the other hand I've had them for about two months i think. Sooo make sure you are aligned correctly and rotate often to get the most out of these things. 

I will update this at the end of the season and we'll see where we are at with the tread and they're related performance.


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