# Ag tractor - go big or go small?



## Gr8WhiteNorth

We are weighing a decision to purchase some new Ag tractors and looking for feedback from someone with an Ag tractor similar to a Kubota L6060. 

We currently use 100hp tractors with 92" inverted blowers. They can be a little cumbersome for some tighter driveways and even worse on tight streets. 

Is there anyone out there who uses 40-60hp tractors with 74-80" inverted blowers on HOA's? If so, what is your review? Do you know how long it takes you to clear a 25ft long double car driveway?

Anyone else have any other ideas? 

We also use skid steers with buckets and plots for this customer type, but It seems like something we could improve on.


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## White_Gold11




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## Mark Oomkes

We're currently running a Deere 4720 with an 82" Normand. It's our backup tractor blower that is doing about half a route (yeah, we overbooked). He's doing about 30 driveways in 1 neighborhood and another 10 close by.

I really haven't run it much so I don't have much of an opinion on it. And the operator last year was less than stellar so I don't really want to base anything on that.

Basically, if you have somewhat shorter drives or very tight drives with little travel time, they work great. Or ours does.

@Herm Witte and @NickSnow&Mow are the only other ones who frequent the forum that I know of using them. I know Image (Steve at Fargo Snow) was switching to them due to easier training.


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## CUCV

I believe this is my 10th year doing HOA's with my 74" PXPL. I started with it on a L4240 and now run it on a L5740. The current HOA I do has 76 homes and a few miles of road that we also do. The smallest driveways can easily fit 4 cars (2 wide x 2 deep) and are generously wide 26'-28', one driveway has to be 40' wide and another 80' long. I average 2-3 min per driveway including snowblowing the snowbank down the road in front of mailboxes (1+ miles). I can do 3" of snow and under faster with a 9' Kage plow (no box) on a skid steer. Road riding isn't an issue for me, I never take the machine out of medium range. I'm a smaller guy so I'm comfortable in the cab but I be bigger guys could feel cramped. I always wish I could sit higher for better visibility but make due. Another company did the HOA in the past with a 100+hp machine with 98" inverted in the past. My lap time are definitely faster. I do the account next door so it was easy for me to watch their system. I picked up an older bidirectional and a 92" PXPL and got to try it for the first time at the shop last night. It will be interesting to see if it improves or hurts my lap time. Visibility and comfort seem great, just wondering how cumbersome it will be getting in and out of driveways. worried about knocking over mailboxes across the street from the driveway I'm doing.


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## boutch

Here my 0.02 cent and hopefully I dont get roasted. Lol

All my driveway are 100 to 400 feet long on 1-2 acre lots. With half of then close together and the other half 1-2 minutes drive time in between. Average storm here are s 15 cm wet snow. 

I'm in my 3rd tractor. My first was m9540 12speed, bought it in May and took it for a dry run in the summer to practice. An hr later I was back home and posted the tractor for sell. Could see myself doing that much shifting for 6-8hr straight. Would have been fine on a tight route. 

Second was a M100x powershift. Used it for 3 seasons with a 92 inv. Road speed was 30-31 km/h on Nokian tires. Could blow most storm in high range. Shifting to travel between driving got old pretty fast even with a power shift. Lots of push button shifting for my route. 

This year I'm in a L6060 with a 74inv. Does 27 km/h. Travel time is about the same beteewn driveway because it get to speed much faster, haven't played in more then 15 cm wet snow yet. In 10cm or less it is definatly faster due to infinite speed control and faster fwd/rev operation. In 15 cm about the same time to do the same amount of pass. but some need a extra pass due to the smaller blower. 

I'm sure when it come to a foot of snow I'm gonna hate my life. Lol

After 6 storms I'm really happy with the L6060. Fuel consumption is 5-6 l an hr. The M100x was 8-10l per hr. 

Unless you can employ the large Ag or rent it to a farmer in the summer, I recommend a 60 hp HST if you dont need a machine that does 40km/h. The machine is half the price and does more then half the work compared to 100hp ag. To me it is a win win. 

My big tractor sat all summer and I can play around the cabin with the l6060. An other bonus for me. 

Good luck!


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

Mark Oomkes said:


> We're currently running a Deere 4720 with an 82" Normand. It's our backup tractor blower that is doing about half a route (yeah, we overbooked). He's doing about 30 driveways in 1 neighborhood and another 10 close by.
> 
> I really haven't run it much so I don't have much of an opinion on it. And the operator last year was less than stellar so I don't really want to base anything on that.
> 
> Basically, if you have somewhat shorter drives or very tight drives with little travel time, they work great. Or ours does.
> 
> @Herm Witte and @NickSnow&Mow are the only other ones who frequent the forum that I know of using them. I know Image (Steve at Fargo Snow) was switching to them due to easier training.


Thanks for the reply. I'm still on the fence about it. Our drives are fairly spread out so travel time is a pretty big part of the equation.


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

boutch said:


> Here my 0.02 cent and hopefully I dont get roasted. Lol
> 
> All my driveway are 100 to 400 feet long on 1-2 acre lots. With half of then close together and the other half 1-2 minutes drive time in between. Average storm here are s 15 cm wet snow.
> 
> I'm in my 3rd tractor. My first was m9540 12speed, bought it in May and took it for a dry run in the summer to practice. An hr later I was back home and posted the tractor for sell. Could see myself doing that much shifting for 6-8hr straight. Would have been fine on a tight route.
> 
> Second was a M100x powershift. Used it for 3 seasons with a 92 inv. Road speed was 30-31 km/h on Nokian tires. Could blow most storm in high range. Shifting to travel between driving got old pretty fast even with a power shift. Lots of push button shifting for my route.
> 
> This year I'm in a L6060 with a 74inv. Does 27 km/h. Travel time is about the same beteewn driveway because it get to speed much faster, haven't played in more then 15 cm wet snow yet. In 10cm or less it is definatly faster due to infinite speed control and faster fwd/rev operation. In 15 cm about the same time to do the same amount of pass. but some need a extra pass due to the smaller blower.
> 
> I'm sure when it come to a foot of snow I'm gonna hate my life. Lol
> 
> After 6 storms I'm really happy with the L6060. Fuel consumption is 5-6 l an hr. The M100x was 8-10l per hr.
> 
> Unless you can employ the large Ag or rent it to a farmer in the summer, I recommend a 60 hp HST if you dont need a machine that does 40km/h. The machine is half the price and does more then half the work compared to 100hp ag. To me it is a win win.
> 
> My big tractor sat all summer and I can play around the cabin with the l6060. An other bonus for me.
> 
> Good luck!


You get real snow compared to us and those driveways are monsters compared to the cookie cutters we have around here.

Do you think that L6060 could handle an 80"? I agree shifting gets pretty old. What's your opinion on burning out clutches in a power shift unit? Can that happen with the constant changes in direction?


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## Unraveller

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> You get real snow compared to us and those driveways are monsters compared to the cookie cutters we have around here.
> 
> Do you think that L6060 could handle an 80"? I agree shifting gets pretty old. What's your opinion on burning out clutches in a power shift unit? Can that happen with the constant changes in direction?


I have 6. They all have 82" Normands, one of which is a hybrid. I have nitrogen accumulaters and counter weight, which are a must, but they handle the blower and weight pretty easily.

I do wish they had the road speed of the 3 or 4 series JD though, I'd love an extra 6-7 kmh....


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## boutch

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> You get real snow compared to us and those driveways are monsters compared to the cookie cutters we have around here.
> 
> Do you think that L6060 could handle an 80"? I agree shifting gets pretty old. What's your opinion on burning out clutches in a power shift unit? Can that happen with the constant changes in direction?


I wanted a Hybrid blower (Cyclone/Bilodeau/Artix/Normand) but I when with a used INV for now until all the manufacturer are done copying each other, and get a proven blower. lol

the L6060 can handle 80-82 blower, I went with a 74 because the price was right.

For the Power shift transmission the wet clutches last for ever, some big guys in Montreal/Ottawa (with 20-50 tractor) run each tractor for 5 to 10 years at 200-400 hrs per season before selling it machine. each machine does around 200-250 drive and probable close to 30 snow even a years and are pretty trouble free. the only complain I had with my power shift was it can be a bit jerky if you up shift at the wrong rpm and quite a bit jerky down shifting. also if the tractor is park outside it need to warm up for a good 20 mins before you can shift gear or you get fault, the shift solenoids dont like cold hyd fluid.


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## boutch

Unraveller said:


> I have 6. They all have 82" Normands, one of which is a hybrid. I have nitrogen accumulaters and counter weight, which are a must, but they handle the blower and weight pretty easily.
> 
> I do wish they had the road speed of the 3 or 4 series JD though, I'd love an extra 6-7 kmh....


My L6060 Does 27-28 Km/h on GPS. my speedo is way off shows 21 km/h. it can be calibrated for the tire you got on. im on Nokian and it must be calibrated for turf tires. the 4066 does 29 km/h Nick said.


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## Unraveller

boutch said:


> My L6060 Does 27-28 Km/h on GPS. my speedo is way off shows 21 km/h. it can be calibrated for the tire you got on. im on Nokian and it must be calibrated for turf tires. the 4066 does 29 km/h Nick said.


I'll have to test it tonight. I hadn't thought of that.

Speaking of the Normand Hybrid: I ****ing love it.

Pros: 
- HUGE box, i can drag twice as much snow as a regular 82" before i get spill over.
- Nothing left on the ground from the blower, nothing.
- Great sight lines
- Chute facing is removable, so unclogging it is way way easier
- Cheaper than 82" with scrapper

Cons:
- Appears to be less efficient power transfer, when I am blowing a half-full box, I can hear the RPM's drop, even with a light snowfall. So i usually back off the pile a bit first.
- Throw distance appears to be a little shorter.


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## NickSnow&Mow

I've had the same question for a couple of years now. So this year I decided to try both. We rented two JD 5115Rs and put 92" cyclones with wings on them. I also setup one 4066R with a 92" cyclone featuring modded mounts to pull it closer to the tractor (Wouldn't recommend as tractor is maxed for weight). We also setup my other 4066r and 82" with wings, the 4052r and 82" with no wings, and the 3046r with the old style Pronovost PINV 80".

Here's my current highly controversial opinion: It completely depends on the routes lol. From what I've seen this year I think we're always going to have a mix of both. Matching the machine with operator skill and route characteristics is key in this conversation I think.

The 4066r with snow tires and the 82" cyclone with wings is our most versatile unit so far. However it's far from the highest production. The little tractors are all doing 100 driveways each in a very comfortable tight 4 hour route consisting of a mix of nice open drives as well as tight downtown areas. The big tractors are in new and open subdivisons with mostly double drives. The one is doing approx 130 places in 4 hours. I firmly believe that tractor and operator will be doing 200 in 5 hours next season.

Here are some questions to consider:

Who are my drivers?

Farm and heavy equipment guys simply don't want to run a little rig. If they have the skill they will perform at a much higher level in a big unit.

How tight is my route?

Drive time is a key consideration. The difference between 30k and 40km/h is astronomical when driveways are spread out. Not so much when they're all in one neighbourhood.

What's my budget?

You can almost run two little units for the price of a big one with a half decent transmission. That's no small detail.


Small Tractor Advantages:

1. About 60% of the cost upfront for the setup as well as fuel

2. Maneuverable. Certain properties simply will not allow for larger than a 4 series

3. So easy to operate and train (an 8 year old could drive these whips)

4. Hydrostatic is unmatched compared to traditional big tractor transmissions (IVT could be debated)

5. Can be stored inside easily

Big tractor advantages

1. Road Speed

2. certain double driveways in two passes and singles in one when matched with 92" cyclone and wings

3. Comfort (quiter, faster, turnable seat, sits higher, more fun, etc)

4. Will not slow down in deep snow. Blowing driveways is childs play for a 115hp. You could practically do driveways at full speed if you had the balls to do it.

5. Major flex on the competition using small units lol

Hope that helps!


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## grnleafgrnscape

What did you get for transmission in the 5115r's? Command quad or command 8?
Been looking at a 5125r to add to the 7290r and 2 6430 IVT


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## NickSnow&Mow

grnleafgrnscape said:


> What did you get for transmission in the 5115r's? Command quad or command 8?
> Been looking at a 5125r to add to the 7290r and 2 6430 IVT


They have the command 8 but avoid it if at all possible. The quad would be much better for doing driveways.


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## grnleafgrnscape

It's not for driveways, but it will be plowing.
Would put a 10ft boss with extensions on it for our smaller parking lots


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## NickSnow&Mow

grnleafgrnscape said:


> It's not for driveways, but it will be plowing.
> Would put a 10ft boss with extensions on it for our smaller parking lots


In that case you should be fine with either.


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## grnleafgrnscape

Am going back and forth between a 6125r so a can have the IVT, and more weight, or give up a lil weight and gain manueverability.
In the summer they are used for right of way ditch mowing
The IVT is a pretty expensive tranny, but sure are nice


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## grnleafgrnscape

With the command 8, are you able to mostly keep it in bcd?


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## NickSnow&Mow

grnleafgrnscape said:


> With the command 8, are you able to mostly keep it in bcd?


Yes you can but it's annoying on the road. I set it so that bcd actually starts in gear c1. Perfect for driveways and quick enough to start on the road.


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## grnleafgrnscape

You get left hand reverse with those too?
So it must be similar to the commandquad in the 7290.
You can program your starting gear forward and reverse, correct?


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## NickSnow&Mow

grnleafgrnscape said:


> You get left hand reverse with those too?
> So it must be similar to the commandquad in the 7290.
> You can program your starting gear forward and reverse, correct?


Yes that's correct


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## grnleafgrnscape

Thank you for the info


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

I'm gonna give this Holder C-480 another try. It had a throttle issue since day one where it was only giving me 2/3 throttle. I sent it away to try and get to the bottom of it multiple times and nobody could figure it out. Everyone was sure it was an electronic issue. Finally, a year and a half later, I found someone had blocked the bottom of the pedal with a wood wedge and it wasn't able to push all the way to the max.

Travel time went from 25kmph to 38kmph. RPM went from 1900 max to full spectrum.

It's a fair bit different pulling the snow back with this machine, but I definitely like facing the garage doors.


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## SHAWZER

Good looking machine . Let us know how it performs . I would be changing mechanics if it took that long to figure out there was a wood wedge under the go pedal ........


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## FredG

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> View attachment 189113
> View attachment 189114
> View attachment 189115
> View attachment 189112
> I'm gonna give this Holder C-480 another try. It had a throttle issue since day one where it was only giving me 2/3 throttle. I sent it away to try and get to the bottom of it multiple times and nobody could figure it out. Everyone was sure it was an electronic issue. Finally, a year and a half later, I found someone had blocked the bottom of the pedal with a wood wedge and it wasn't able to push all the way to the max.
> 
> Travel time went from 25kmph to 38kmph. RPM went from 1900 max to full spectrum.
> 
> It's a fair bit different pulling the snow back with this machine, but I definitely like facing the garage doors.


 I like it. Got to be a little hairy running 38 MPH? No.


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## SHAWZER

Think he is saying km per hour .


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## NickSnow&Mow

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> View attachment 189113
> View attachment 189114
> View attachment 189115
> View attachment 189112
> I'm gonna give this Holder C-480 another try. It had a throttle issue since day one where it was only giving me 2/3 throttle. I sent it away to try and get to the bottom of it multiple times and nobody could figure it out. Everyone was sure it was an electronic issue. Finally, a year and a half later, I found someone had blocked the bottom of the pedal with a wood wedge and it wasn't able to push all the way to the max.
> 
> Travel time went from 25kmph to 38kmph. RPM went from 1900 max to full spectrum.
> 
> It's a fair bit different pulling the snow back with this machine, but I definitely like facing the garage doors.


Cool concept. What're the advantages and disadvantages over a tractor so far? Did you pick this up half price after the Canada plow shenanigans?


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## boutch

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Cool concept. What're the advantages and disadvantages over a tractor so far? Did you pick this up half price after the Canada plow shenanigans?


those a slick machine. 75 hp HTS that do 40 km/h with front and rear pto and front and rear 3 point can lift close to 5000 lbs. would be sick with a PXPL.

the Winnipeg/Canada plow shenanigans had Tool Cat I believe.


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## WIPensFan

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> View attachment 189113
> View attachment 189114
> View attachment 189115
> View attachment 189112
> I'm gonna give this Holder C-480 another try. It had a throttle issue since day one where it was only giving me 2/3 throttle. I sent it away to try and get to the bottom of it multiple times and nobody could figure it out. Everyone was sure it was an electronic issue. Finally, a year and a half later, I found someone had blocked the bottom of the pedal with a wood wedge and it wasn't able to push all the way to the max.
> 
> Travel time went from 25kmph to 38kmph. RPM went from 1900 max to full spectrum.
> 
> It's a fair bit different pulling the snow back with this machine, but I definitely like facing the garage doors.


Love that thing! So expensive though. Video of doing drives please.


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## NickSnow&Mow

boutch said:


> those a slick machine. 75 hp HTS that do 40 km/h with front and rear pto and front and rear 3 point can lift close to 5000 lbs. would be sick with a PXPL.
> 
> the Winnipeg/Canada plow shenanigans had Tool Cat I believe.


Originally. They then switched to holder. Don't even have a website. Wonder what happened to the guy.


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## boutch

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Originally. They then switched to holder. Don't even have a website. Wonder what happened to the guy.


That probably one of the machine for sell.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-equip...ampaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_android


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## Triple L

Canada plow is gone!!!! Hahahahahahahaha


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## boutch

Whith 36 hrs service I wounder why they went under.


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## NickSnow&Mow

boutch said:


> Whith 36 hrs service I wounder why they went under.
> 
> View attachment 189189


Lol. We still get complaints with 4 hour service.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Triple L said:


> Canada plow is gone!!!! Hahahahahahahaha


Could be a rumour but I heard they just up and ditched their Winnipeg customers halfway through last season. BBB says F- rating hahah


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## Triple L

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Could be a rumour but I heard they just up and ditched their Winnipeg customers halfway through last season. BBB says F- rating hahah


Website doesn't exist anymore either...
Ol'Jimmy had a bad ROI on that one LOL


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

This isn’t a Canada Plow unit. I feel pretty bad for whatever sucker fell for that scheme. It’s rumoured to be $270k for their setup. Their units are C-992’s with 92hp. It’s a bit larger unit and would be a real powerhouse. Mine is a C-480 with 75hp or so. It’s amazing how much capability this machine has built into it. 

I’ve taken it out a couple times this season. It’s a lot different pulling snow backwards towards the street. I found that part tough to get used to, but the controls and driving the unit are much easier. Forward driving starts out hydrostatic, then turns into direct drive after 20kmph.

I have an 86” inverted on it. I feel I t’s a little too much weight. 80” would be fine, 74” probably the best option. The 86” leaves a lot of blower hanging out past the width of the machine. 

Mid-articulating/pivoting steering can get you into a tricky situation with this machine. This can get a new guy into a bad situation. Our loaders steer this way, but you don’t really notice since you are sitting behind the pivot point. In the Holder, you sit ahead of the pivot point, so the steering behaves differently. Once you use it for a few hours, you catch on. 

Advantages-
1. More manoeuvreable than our current Kubota M105’s. 
2. Smaller size is less problematic for hitting low hanging branches, basketball hoops, etc 
3. Very Powerful for its size
4. Ridiculously fast!
5. Customers don’t complain “it’s too big!!” 
6. Quieter than skidsteers
7. Adaptable for other specialized purposes (eg. Spraying, mowing, sidewalk brush or snow blower, etc). Dump box is great. 
8. Driving forward to the garage doors is so much easier on the neck after a long shift. A quick side to side check of the street while backing up is preferred to cranking your neck back when backing towards the garage. To me, this was a big deal. 
9. Programming and quick-turn speed adjustment controls can let you set your RPM independent of your speed 

Disadvantages-
1. Nearest dealer for repair is 200km away
2. German built, means some parts are fairly far away. Deutz motor is fairly common
3. Unique controls can be as complicated as you want to make it. Difficult session reading the manual is likely required. 
4. Not a lot of info readily available on the web. YouTube or internet videos just don’t exist to help you through repairs. That said, The company reps are great and get back to you quickly and they are stocking more parts and adding more dealers all the time. 
5. Mid-articulation is tough for new trainees. Most scary thing is actually wiggling the machine out of our shop. 
6. Getting out of the cab is tight. While seat is comfortable and there is room for stowing your jacket, it’s a bit on the tight side. The 992 would be better in that respect. I’m 6ft, 210 lbs for a reference. 

I will charge up my goPros for this weekends storm to get some footage

Thx for all the feedback. It’s great to get so much perspective from guys who actually use Thee tractors for what I do. We are the only ones out this way who use Ag tractors for residential blowing


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## WIPensFan

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> This isn't a Canada Plow unit. I feel pretty bad for whatever sucker fell for that scheme. It's rumoured to be $270k for their setup. Their units are C-992's with 92hp. It's a bit larger unit and would be a real powerhouse. Mine is a C-480 with 75hp or so. It's amazing how much capability this machine has built into it.
> 
> I've taken it out a couple times this season. It's a lot different pulling snow backwards towards the street. I found that part tough to get used to, but the controls and driving the unit are much easier. Forward driving starts out hydrostatic, then turns into direct drive after 20kmph.
> 
> I have an 86" inverted on it. I feel I t's a little too much weight. 80" would be fine, 74" probably the best option. The 86" leaves a lot of blower hanging out past the width of the machine.
> 
> Mid-articulating/pivoting steering can get you into a tricky situation with this machine. This can get a new guy into a bad situation. Our loaders steer this way, but you don't really notice since you are sitting behind the pivot point. In the Holder, you sit ahead of the pivot point, so the steering behaves differently. Once you use it for a few hours, you catch on.
> 
> Advantages-
> 1. More manoeuvreable than our current Kubota M105's.
> 2. Smaller size is less problematic for hitting low hanging branches, basketball hoops, etc
> 3. Very Powerful for its size
> 4. Ridiculously fast!
> 5. Customers don't complain "it's too big!!"
> 6. Quieter than skidsteers
> 7. Adaptable for other specialized purposes (eg. Spraying, mowing, sidewalk brush or snow blower, etc). Dump box is great.
> 8. Driving forward to the garage doors is so much easier on the neck after a long shift. A quick side to side check of the street while backing up is preferred to cranking your neck back when backing towards the garage. To me, this was a big deal.
> 9. Programming and quick-turn speed adjustment controls can let you set your RPM independent of your speed
> 
> Disadvantages-
> 1. Nearest dealer for repair is 200km away
> 2. German built, means some parts are fairly far away. Deutz motor is fairly common
> 3. Unique controls can be as complicated as you want to make it. Difficult session reading the manual is likely required.
> 4. Not a lot of info readily available on the web. YouTube or internet videos just don't exist to help you through repairs. That said, The company reps are great and get back to you quickly and they are stocking more parts and adding more dealers all the time.
> 5. Mid-articulation is tough for new trainees. Most scary thing is actually wiggling the machine out of our shop.
> 6. Getting out of the cab is tight. While seat is comfortable and there is room for stowing your jacket, it's a bit on the tight side. The 992 would be better in that respect. I'm 6ft, 210 lbs for a reference.
> 
> I will charge up my goPros for this weekends storm to get some footage
> 
> Thx for all the feedback. It's great to get so much perspective from guys who actually use Thee tractors for what I do. We are the only ones out this way who use Ag tractors for residential blowing


Great write up. Looking forward to videos.


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## boutch

I Message them and they have 12 of them new for sell. The deal fell through after they were ordered. Must be the winnipeg plow machine. They are asking 135k CAD for a new machine with blower and brine sprayer. Worth over 200k he said.


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## NickSnow&Mow




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## NickSnow&Mow

Sorry, wrong thread


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## Mark Oomkes

First real test of the 4720...8-9" of light powder and it took forever. 

Not impressed.


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## White_Gold11

Mark Oomkes said:


> First real test of the 4720...8-9" of light powder and it took forever.
> 
> Not impressed.


Mark what other tractor size/ blower size have you used? Also what size/type blower do you have on the 4720? Curious because I was hoping to try a 6060 with hybrid next year..


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## Mark Oomkes

5100 with a 92" Normand

5085 with a POS 92" Pronovost now it has a Normand hybrid 

Sub has a New Holland something or other with 92" Normand

4720 has an 82" Normand


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## White_Gold11

See yesterday we received what the weather service called 3".. Which equaled 4-5" depending on area with 3ft drifts. If a 60 horse cant hack it in 8-9" of powder what size combo do you think is best?


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## Aerospace Eng

Mark Oomkes said:


> First real test of the 4720...8-9" of light powder and it took forever.
> 
> Not impressed.


What does "It took forever" mean? Walking speed? 1 mph?


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## Mark Oomkes

8-9 hours instead of 5ish.

I don't have the exact times in front of me but along those lines.


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## John_DeereGreen

That’s really going to suck when you get 6” of blue snow.


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> 8-9 hours instead of 5ish.
> 
> I don't have the exact times in front of me but along those lines.


Ewe kneed one of these units...


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## Aerospace Eng

Mark Oomkes said:


> 8-9 hours instead of 5ish.
> 
> I don't have the exact times in front of me but along those lines.


I'm feeling curmudgeonly today. That still doesn't help. What were you doing it with before? A 1025?


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## John_DeereGreen

Sounds like he’s trying to compare a 58hp hydro to an 85-100hp gear drive tractor with inverted snowblower. I remember the statement being made that 85hp wasn’t enough so it seems logical that 58 would be even worse.


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## Mark Oomkes

Earlier this season he ran through the same route, same tractor in 5ish hours. Yesterday with 8-10 inches it took 8-9 hours. Same tractor and blower.


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## White_Gold11

What was the snow total/ moisture content on the 5 hr day??


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## plow4beer

Mark Oomkes said:


> 8-9 hours instead of 5ish.
> 
> I don't have the exact times in front of me but along those lines.





Mark Oomkes said:


> Earlier this season he ran through the same route, same tractor in 5ish hours. Yesterday with 8-10 inches it took 8-9 hours. Same tractor and blower.


Bummer...how many drives did that tractor have to do?


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## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> 8-9 hours instead of 5ish.
> 
> I don't have the exact times in front of me but along those lines.


I cant imagine buying anything under 100hp from now on. Our 5085 with 92" Normand is adequate but inhales fuel. Our 5100 with 92" Normand is much quicker, can run in economy mode, and gets up the hills without slowing much.

Our 5100 is in for repair and the loaner is a 5115 M. It dominates. Operator ran it in C1 high range. 8mph in 6" of lake effect. The only thing slowing it down is the blower not being able to keep up. Cant take in that large a volume of snow.


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## Mark Oomkes

Huh...I could swear I remember saying that same thing about a 5085....


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## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Huh...I could swear I remember saying that same thing about a 5085....


Thanks for reminding me about that. For the second time...


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## John_DeereGreen

How many driveways are you doing Chris?


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## White_Gold11

Still a few companies in Canada are making it work with 100s of L6060 Kubota with inverted. They must start routes earlier before snow builds up to 8 “ or know something you or I do not. .


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## Landgreen

White_Gold11 said:


> Still a few companies in Canada are making it work with 100s of L6060 Kubota with inverted. They must start routes earlier before snow builds up to 8 " or know something you or I do not. .


Makes sense if the L6060 has a blower that is sized right for it. I would be interested in running a smaller tractor to see how it compares. One of the reasons we went with the 5 series Deere is road speed. Our routes dont have that great of density.


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## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Makes sense if the L6060 has a blower that is sized right for it. I would be interested in running a smaller tractor to see how it compares. One of the reasons we went with the 5 series Deere is road speed. Our routes dont have that great of density.


I'll let you run mine...I'll even pay you.


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## Mark Oomkes

White_Gold11 said:


> Still a few companies in Canada are making it work with 100s of L6060 Kubota with inverted. They must start routes earlier before snow builds up to 8 " or know something you or I do not. .


No lake effect?

Our routes are too long, I should have 2 more o. The road. But then you need operators...


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## White_Gold11

Mark Oomkes said:


> No lake effect?
> 
> Our routes are too long, I should have 2 more o. The road. But then you need operators...


Understood.


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## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'll let you run mine...I'll even pay you.


Its that fun eh?


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## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Its that fun eh?


Beats me...


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## JoeSPM

I’ve got an L6060 with a 92” pronovost cyclone, and an M7060 with the same blower.

The smaller tractor is easy to run but we had to load the tires in addition to front weight to help balance it, and we will soon add accumulators to smooth out the ride. It’s easy to train guys on, and handles the 92” blower fine albeit needs to run some rpm in wet heavy snow.

The M7060 feels better suited to the 92” given the longer chassis and the extra power allows us to run around 1500rpm comfortably. In fact it is doing better on fuel compared to the L6060... and it’s size is suitable even for tight drives.


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

JoeSPM said:


> I've got an L6060 with a 92" pronovost cyclone, and an M7060 with the same blower.
> 
> The smaller tractor is easy to run but we had to load the tires in addition to front weight to help balance it, and we will soon add accumulators to smooth out the ride. It's easy to train guys on, and handles the 92" blower fine albeit needs to run some rpm in wet heavy snow.
> 
> The M7060 feels better suited to the 92" given the longer chassis and the extra power allows us to run around 1500rpm comfortably. In fact it is doing better on fuel compared to the L6060... and it's size is suitable even for tight drives.


Where do you get the accumulator??


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

I settled on two tractors. The first is a Kubota M6-141 that will be used for ditch mowing in the off season. It hauls around a side arm system that really creates the need for the extra power and weight. I know it's gonna make it cumbersome on residential driveways.

The second is a Kubota M5-111. We picked up this unit last week and it's unreal!! So fast to get up to speed. It tops out at 39kph. 10" shorter than our current tractors. This size would have been what I preferred for both, but the off season income was the deciding factor. This machine will be able to do the mowing job in the event of a breakdown

The Holder tractor will remain a backup for our tractors or trackless sidewalk route

I ordered a 92" Pronovost cyclone to try as well

The only thing left to figure out is the undermount frame and pusher or plow setup on the M5 and a pusher or plow for the loader on the M6


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## JoeSPM

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> Where do you get the accumulator??


I've not sourced them yet. I've just been chatting with my dealer about adding them for the next season.


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

I made a quick video of the new tractor out for it's first shift. The newbie operator was doing pretty good with the pressure from the boss over his shoulder. He'll get up to speed in no time


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## WIPensFan

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> I made a quick video of the new tractor out for it's first shift. The newbie operator was doing pretty good with the pressure from the boss over his shoulder. He'll get up to speed in no time


Good vid. We Wis-Kids loves us some video! 
That's a good scrape too.


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## Mark Oomkes

Nice...wish we could get that clean.


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Nice...wish we could get that clean.


Dry snow helps


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## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Dry snow helps


Thanks Sherman...


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thanks Sherman...


Always here to help.....Thumbs Up


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## Calcon

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> View attachment 189754
> View attachment 189757
> View attachment 189760
> View attachment 189761
> View attachment 189762
> I settled on two tractors. The first is a Kubota M6-141 that will be used for ditch mowing in the off season. It hauls around a side arm system that really creates the need for the extra power and weight. I know it's gonna make it cumbersome on residential driveways.
> 
> The second is a Kubota M5-111. We picked up this unit last week and it's unreal!! So fast to get up to speed. It tops out at 39kph. 10" shorter than our current tractors. This size would have been what I preferred for both, but the off season income was the deciding factor. This machine will be able to do the mowing job in the event of a breakdown
> 
> The Holder tractor will remain a backup for our tractors or trackless sidewalk route
> 
> I ordered a 92" Pronovost cyclone to try as well
> 
> The only thing left to figure out is the undermount frame and pusher or plow setup on the M5 and a pusher or plow for the loader on the M6


M5-111 or even the M5-091 seems like the right rig for speed and power. But if your just getting into the game the L6060 or JD 4066R would also be great starter rigs. Nick has tried the bigger blowers on them but recommends the 80" or 82" with power wings. I think that has more to do with blower speed and PTO power in heavy snow conditions.

I have been reading all the posts and it seems some comparisons are being missed when talking about speed of a small 60 HP range tractor in heavy snow conditions. It should take longer to clear 12" (30cm) of snow. Think how long it would take to do the same snow with a pickup plow??? Seems to me 8 to 9 hrs for a route is to be expected in a big snow event.

Also we are not taking into account types of snow densities that make up some of these events. The lake effect guys also deal with much different snow events and snow densities. Same with the guys who have lots of drifting snow issues. I haven't seen much from the Mountain guys that see 200+ inches a year.

So I don't know that we are fully comparing Apples to Apples with any of the tractors and blower combinations if we don't agree that the snow density is import and hard to quantify in our conversations. I guess if you were using a 200 HP tractor with a 92" blower you would not find much to slow it down.

Thought's?

Chris in Alaska.


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

'Calcon' - the only thing I can speak to is the 95-110 hp tractors.

On a 14" snowfall event with moderately wet snow, the M95 and M105 tractors and 92" blowers: The 105 hp handled the snow without any lag. The 95 hp tractor was a little more thirsty for higher RPM's to keep the speed up, but on a short driveway, I rarely had to gear down. There were points I had to engage the clutch to let the blower catch up. 

Tractor route times were very similar to normal, but the M105 was definitely closer to that normal. The one thing that did make a difference was starting the PTO with an auger full of wet heavy snow. The extra 10hp almost eliminated plugging. The M95 plugged 4 times in one shift, where the M105 plugged once. The blowers aren't identical, so this could have been an unfair comparison. We don't typically get wet snow on the prairies, so this normally isn't an issue for us unless temps are rising to melting point.

The guys who argue for the L6060's make their case for price, operator comfort, and ease of training new operators with efficient/easier controls. They are ok with longer travel times as a trade off. If not, how many 12"+ dumps do you get in your area and are customers ok with longer wait times for those events? The narrower snowblower may make up the difference with lower power from what I understand. For us, the narrower snowblower forced a 4th pass on roughly 35% of our driveways. If an extra pass takes 10-15 seconds, we would only lose 10 mins on an entire route. This works out to 2 extra accounts per season or roughly $900 per season. This isn't a huge deal, but I guess it does work out to an extra $9000 over the 10 years we are keeping the tractor.

For my routes, we do a lot of travelling from neighbourhood to neighbourhood. I did the math and calculated the travel time @ 27 kmph VS @ 39 kmph. The difference was around 1.3 hours per outing, so I opted to travel faster. If we build better route density, that spread will become closer. 

On the flip side, to make numbers work, we are outfitting the tractors with front snow pushers to use them in the night shift as well. We normally start our residential routes at 4:30AM, but we are going to bump that back to 6AM to get an 8 hour shift plowing parking lots before they drop the pushers and hit residentials. 

I gotta say, the visibility of these tractors compared to skidsteers or plow trucks is 10,000 times better. I think its a no-brainer to reduce our accident/damage occurrences. This is where we will save thousands$$. Power, weight, and direct drive gears/gear ranges is going to be awesome. The fuel savings is very appealing as well.


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## Unraveller

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> The second is a Kubota M5-111. We picked up this unit last week and it's unreal!! So fast to get up to speed. It tops out at 39kph. 10" shorter than our current tractors. This size would have been what I preferred for both, but the off season income was the deciding factor. This machine will be able to do the mowing job in the event of a breakdown
> 
> The Holder tractor will remain a backup for our tractors or trackless sidewalk route
> 
> I ordered a 92" Pronovost cyclone to try as well
> 
> The only thing left to figure out is the undermount frame and pusher or plow setup on the M5 and a pusher or plow for the loader on the M6


What transmission did you get on the M5-111?


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

Unraveller - The trans is the 12 speed manual shift. 6 gears in high and 6 in low. Its a lot of clutching. I'm not sore after a shift, but my shift is only 6-8 hours in the tractor typically. After my route, I typically do Work Orders in a plow truck or loader for the rest of the day.

Here is a link to another video: 




I don't quite have the right gear picked and can definitely go faster. The video is my first time operating this tractor for a full shift. The size is just right, road speed is great, and visibility is amazing. There were a ton of subtle improvements from our older Kubotas.

I ordered an 8ft HLA pusher and undermount frame. The frame needs to be built, but should be here in 3-4 weeks.

I'm hoping to have the M6-141 by the end of next week depending on transport arrangements. This tractor is the powershift push button. I think 16 speed - 8 high, 8 low


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## boutch

Mark Oomkes said:


> First real test of the 4720...8-9" of light powder and it took forever.
> 
> Not impressed.


Hi Mark. I'm just curious, which range were you blowing in. H/M/L

Last storm we got 8 inches of compacted blown in snow and sleet. The L6060 has 6 ranges. Each H/M/L have low and hi in each. I usually travel in HH and blow in HL. Last storm I could blow faster in medium range vs hi range in some driveway. I was still able to blow traveling at around 4-5 MPH. It took me a bit longer but not terrible. I did about 80% of them in Hi range and the other in medium range, mostly the one up hill in Medium.


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## Mark Oomkes

No idea, I am in my truck. I can axe.


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