# Help with Cheap customers



## tnyblgn3 (Nov 17, 2008)

Now i got this hotel and since im new i went real cheap just to start off. (3 small parking lots with salt for $135) So after a few plows he calls me and says " Hey I want my parking lot clean, i have ice and snow all over" this is after he refuses me to do pre salting and wants me to return twice to his parking lot to plow because cars are always parked there, with no extra charge. I told him to return twice is extra charge, and that i have to salt more to get rid of the extra ice from freezing rain or what not which is also extra charge. and he said 135 is enough and he fired me. Now my question is am i doing something wrong? should i be plowing a diffrent way, or salting diffrently or what should i do to prevent this in a future job.


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

We do plenty of hotels they are pita but we bid them by the hour. The traffic flow is crazy but by the hour we return about every hour to keep them clear. Fixed price for a hotel is great for the manager but not for the contractor. Each time the rooms turn over the parking changes and stalls need to be cleaned up this can go all during the storm and the day after. We have been out for days on clean up. What is important is the fire lanes and approach and front access to the lobby keeps the manager happy and if they see you there all the time the don't gripe to much on the price.You cant move snow if cars are in there stalls but when they move they see there lots as a unplowed just how they are.


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

Well it looks like you did a bad job...I could see that happening, because you were paid to do a bad job...as you probably felt ripped off plowing three different lots for that kinda money. To make any money doing those lots, I would need to plow each one in about 15 minutes, with minimum drive time in between.

Who in the hell doesn't charge to do a clean up, because there were cars restricting access to parts of the parking lot?....

I hate when there is just one or two cars, but when there are a bunch, I actually like it, beacuse I know that I'm getting paid to clean the isles, but I will for sure need to come back to clean up where the cars were... YOU NEED TO CHARGE FOR THAT.

I guarantee, If you felt like you weren't getting paid the craps end of a shoot...you would have spent the time needed to clean that lot up real nice.

My price on those three lots if they were to take around 30 minutes each would have been $255, salt and sidewalks are EXTRA...

if these lots were around an hour each...$375 one truck. salt and sidewalks EXTRA

SALT CAN'T BE FOR FREE....r u nuts?..


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

I'm sure Apu don't give a free room night with every night booked.Hotels/Motels need to be priced for having to plow it twice every time it snows,once when it's snowing and the second when people check out. Salt is extra every time. You lost the account now learn from it.


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## tnyblgn3 (Nov 17, 2008)

tnyblgn3;676994 said:


> Now i got this hotel and since im new i went real cheap just to start off. (3 small parking lots with salt for $135) So after a few plows he calls me and says " Hey I want my parking lot clean, i have ice and snow all over" this is after he refuses me to do pre salting and wants me to return twice to his parking lot to plow because cars are always parked there, with no extra charge. I told him to return twice is extra charge, and that i have to salt more to get rid of the extra ice from freezing rain or what not which is also extra charge. and he said 135 is enough and he fired me. Now my question is am i doing something wrong? should i be plowing a diffrent way, or salting diffrently or what should i do to prevent this in a future job.





grandview;677287 said:


> I'm sure Apu don't give a free room night with every night booked.Hotels/Motels need to be priced for having to plow it twice every time it snows,once when it's snowing and the second when people check out. Salt is extra every time. You lost the account now learn from it.


exactly how did you know they were indian people, lol, so next time i should make sure that comeing back twice to clear the parts where cars were parked is extra charge. also that if he wants to have his parking lots clean i have to salt after ice storms which is an extra charge. Man if that is the going rate this guy should beg for me back dont ya think if somebody else is going to charge him 300+ dollars? if he calls me back im uping my charge. thanks guys anything else??!


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

Here is how I figure out what to charge for a one shot deal no contract. (Same as per push sort of)

Hourly Value:
Truck = $25 per hour
Driver = $20.00 per hour
Maintenance & Fuel = $20.00 per hour

Total: $65.00 per hour. This is my minimum rate. I generally just round it off based on the "hardness" of the job.

For salting of 3 parking lots you should look into a bulk supplier. Here we pay $86.00 per ton of salt dumped into our box. A ton should be enough and then some for the 3 parking lots your describing. 

Now double the price of salt for application. If I'm paying $86 I charge $200.00 for a ton. This $100 has to pay for my time, labour and fuel to get the salt and get to the lot to do the job.

Your friend Apu might think this is a lot of money but when you look at the costs of running the business it really isn't.

Oh and if he still hasn't called you in a week go back into the hotel. Ask for a standard room for the night. Get the price, then ask for a second night free and tell them the fee for one night "is enough"....


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

drivewaydoctor;680831 said:


> Here is how I figure out what to charge for a one shot deal no contract. (Same as per push sort of)
> 
> Hourly Value:
> Truck = $25 per hour
> ...


Man please get yourself up to closer to $100 per hour! I didn't check where you are from but $65 is a little low!


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## tnyblgn3 (Nov 17, 2008)

drivewaydoctor;680831 said:


> Here is how I figure out what to charge for a one shot deal no contract. (Same as per push sort of)
> 
> Hourly Value:
> Truck = $25 per hour
> ...


Ok so he got plowed today by somebody else which im starting not care i dont want his biz anymore however he hasnt paid me for the prevous two plows and he says he should have to pay for services he is un happy with. Whats my next step collections?


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

I just got a contract here with Holiday Inn and they are amazing to work with. Small parking pad of 4 cars, circular driveway, front walkway and two city sidewalks. They pay me seaonal with salt extra. They have been great to deal with.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

bladescape2;677219 said:


> Who in the hell doesn't charge to do a clean up, because there were cars restricting access to parts of the parking lot?....


Anyone who plows apartment complexes.

Also _any_ site that you would plow during the daytime while the business is open and the lots are full.......it's pretty standard to return once the lot is empty to clean it up. There are other scenarios in which areas would be inaccessible during the initial push that would require you to come back and finish the job at no charge.


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## exmark1 (Nov 30, 2005)

TCLA;681032 said:


> Anyone who plows apartment complexes.
> 
> Also _any_ site that you would plow during the daytime while the business is open and the lots are full.......it's pretty standard to return once the lot is empty to clean it up. There are other scenarios in which areas would be inaccessible during the initial push that would require you to come back and finish the job at no charge.


We charge extra in both of those instances, with fuel expenses etc... you have to in my mind to make it pay.


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## DJ Contracting (Dec 16, 2003)

Oasis;680976 said:


> I just got a contract here with Holiday Inn and they are amazing to work with. Small parking pad of 4 cars, circular driveway, front walkway and two city sidewalks. They pay me seaonal with salt extra. They have been great to deal with.


I'm sorry if this seems unkind but this response is worthless unless we look into a Holiday Inn, you said that they are amazing (but you didn't tell us how much you quoted and how many events you cover)

I had a thread here about loosing two accounts side by side 40 minutes in all (this after the owners told me they liked my work) to a local cunstruction company that is doing them for $35.00 each with a skid-steer and an 8' pusher, now for the good part we had a 3" snowfall on Monday and these properties went touched prior to opening the skid-steer was gone and it looked like they caught a local guy with and old plow truck (no caution light no running light I live down the road from these accounts) at 7-11 to start clearing these lots. When i finished all my accounts @ 11:30 AM they had two trucks trying to clean up around all the cars.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

DJ Contracting;681371 said:


> I'm sorry if this seems unkind but this response is worthless unless we look into a Holiday Inn, you said that they are amazing (but you didn't tell us how much you quoted and how many events you cover)
> 
> I had a thread here about loosing two accounts side by side 40 minutes in all (this after the owners told me they liked my work) to a local cunstruction company that is doing them for $35.00 each with a skid-steer and an 8' pusher, now for the good part we had a 3" snowfall on Monday and these properties went touched prior to opening the skid-steer was gone and it looked like they caught a local guy with and old plow truck (no caution light no running light I live down the road from these accounts) at 7-11 to start clearing these lots. When i finished all my accounts @ 11:30 AM they had two trucks trying to clean up around all the cars.


Well to be honest, I was more commenting on the person who mentioned that hotels tend to be a pain in the ass to deal with not your financial facts. As for what I quoted or get paid for this property I dont tend to divuldge that information in public forums because some people here are just as backstabbing and dishonest as the schmucks we meet out on the street. No insult intended to anyone in particular. I dont think discussing prices in public here is of any use because many who do talk about the amounts they receive or quote are BSing anyways.....

Hope this cleared my thougs for ya....

CIAO


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## tnyblgn3 (Nov 17, 2008)

ok guys lets stick to the subject and how do i get my money from this guy?!


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Collect it.

Make phone calls, talk to whoever your contact is. Write letters. Go there in person and ask to be paid. Get your lawyer to write a letter.

Is this the first time someone hasn't paid you?


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## tnyblgn3 (Nov 17, 2008)

TCLA;681556 said:


> Collect it.
> 
> Make phone calls, talk to whoever your contact is. Write letters. Go there in person and ask to be paid. Get your lawyer to write a letter.
> 
> Is this the first time someone hasn't paid you?


yeah this is my first year plowing.


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## tnyblgn3 (Nov 17, 2008)

Just called him he said "du du dut trow dat lawyer at my" "i puy when i got bac twon" "thank you come again"


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## DJ Contracting (Dec 16, 2003)

Just keep sending him an invoice with the amount owed and if it's past due send him another with the finance charge added to it he'll get the message good luck.


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## tnyblgn3 (Nov 17, 2008)

thanks, what do you think intrest charge amout should be? per month?


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## DJ Contracting (Dec 16, 2003)

tnyblgn3;681624 said:


> thanks, what do you think intrest charge amout should be? per month?


I don't know, i think i have seen anywhere from 2%-6% compounded for each month they are late. Maybe somebody that has had to do this will chime in.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

tnyblgn3;681624 said:


> thanks, what do you think intrest charge amout should be? per month?


The max you can legally charge


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## go plow (Dec 14, 2004)

tnyblgn3;681624 said:


> thanks, what do you think intrest charge amout should be? Per month?


these are things that you need to check into, fyi, local laws, you cant just buy a truck and call yourself a buiseness! Im not tying to be mean, but your not going to make it! What some one says on here may be ok in their area but not in yours.. Do your home work!!!!!


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## kthhayes (Feb 28, 2003)

You can try a late fee, or a % as allowed by your state law, but if you did not have it in your contract you might be blowing smoke. If you had a contract that specified $135 per visit, then bill him for every visit you have made, even the ones to clean up. If your contract read $135 per event learn from it and use a better contract. My contracts have a $25 late fee with 6% per month, and the payment must be mailed within 5 business days of billing. I do a 15 day net for most business, but with the subs needing to be paid on snow it is 5 days. If after a month or so you have not recieved payment then contact a Lawyer and ask for help. If you end up going to court and prevail you may have your fees paid, cunsult a lawyer for this info, then when you win and his lots are icy when he is getting no service, be nice, give him some ice skates Allways a contract on every piece of work you do!!!


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## btammo (Aug 16, 2008)

If it were a hotel chain I would go right above this jacko to corporate. If he is the owner of the hotel and it is a mom and pop shop, then do the above.


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## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

drivewaydoctor;680831 said:


> Here is how I figure out what to charge for a one shot deal no contract. (Same as per push sort of)
> 
> Hourly Value:
> Truck = $25 per hour
> ...


I have to agree with others $65 an hour? I sub at $65 hour. If my truck breaks down or anything goes wrong. Oh well not my lot. I dont have that attitude when I plow. I have done same lot 10 years now. I like to think I am the only reason he still has contract. I chase down employees when I see them park and tell them where to park. I go inside and make them move company vehicles. And block customers from parking in areas so I can plow. All in All I am a *****. But in a nice way. But that parking lot is spotless when I am done. The store has one of those prepared food sections. So the manager feeds me. charges me for the 20% soda. Says he has to its an inventory thing.


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## Runner (Jul 21, 2000)

tnyblgn3;681535 said:


> ok guys lets stick to the subject and how do i get my money from this guy?!


You get 2 or 3 of your friends together with trucks, and you go over there one night - preferably after it has been plowed from a big snow. you carve some snow off the piles, and each of you move a heaping blade full and pile it in front of his front doors. You can do this in less than a minute if you coordinate yourselves. I'd bury that guy so far in, that he wouldn't see another customer until spring. That's why I don't work for those people. They will will either try to screw you right to your face by talking you down, or they will screw you after the fact. I have to laugh all the time when I pull into a gas station during a storm...They always ask how much to plow the lot. They don't care if they are taking work away from their regular guy...as long as they can save a buck or two. You give them a price like 80 bucks, and they always counter it with something like "you do it for 50..." I always then counter with "How about a hundred?" 
Anyway, just for your future reference, stay away from the gas stations, party stores, and cheap motels - unless you are filling your tank, getting pop or beer, or getting a piece of tail that you don't want to take home.prsport


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## btammo (Aug 16, 2008)

I do a doctors office. I send the contract over saying "every two inches" I get it back signed and he notes "Every 4 inches" and "No salt"...We got snow the other day and some sleet and freezing rain...parking lots are slippery! We dont do their lot as requested. One employee pulls in and rams another employees car.....trying to save a couple bucks.


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## tnyblgn3 (Nov 17, 2008)

*finally paid*

I had my professior write him a letter of representation who is a lawyer and he paid up very fast... better late then never


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## tnyblgn3 (Nov 17, 2008)

go plow;681713 said:


> these are things that you need to check into, fyi, local laws, you cant just buy a truck and call yourself a buiseness! Im not tying to be mean, but your not going to make it! What some one says on here may be ok in their area but not in yours.. Do your home work!!!!!


I did alot of home work and it was as simple as buying a truck and plow, with buying comm insurance, and check with local police dept, on stacking and plowing laws. then i open a free biz account with chase and i was set. maybe took me a day total. The hard part was knowing what to charge and how much to charge for plow and salt.


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## sp6x6 (Jan 14, 2009)

JDiepstra;680841 said:


> Man please get yourself up to closer to $100 per hour! I didn't check where you are from but $65 is a little low!


 Up here for $110 I can get a excavator with a 1 yrd. 46" bucket. I guess thats what we get for living in the " last best place"


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

tnyblgn3;703928 said:


> I had my professior write him a letter of representation who is a lawyer and he paid up very fast... better late then never


Haha... That usually works pretty good.


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## lawnwolf (May 11, 2006)

TCLA;681032 said:


> Anyone who plows apartment complexes.
> 
> Also _any_ site that you would plow during the daytime while the business is open and the lots are full.......it's pretty standard to return once the lot is empty to clean it up. There are other scenarios in which areas would be inaccessible during the initial push that would require you to come back and finish the job at no charge.


Since having to make a return trip is almost a given with any place that has a lot of parking spaces, any extra charges should be figured out in the initial pricing of the lot. Whether it a seasonal contract or a charge per snow event.

Your contract should spell out exactly what you will provide and what it will cost. If the customer doesn't like the price then they don't have to sign it.

You are not in business to favors for customers, you want to be able to succeed.

ussmileyflag


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## Sealer People (Nov 16, 2008)

I would go there with your truck, ask him for the money face to face.

Tell him he has that last chance, & if he doesnt want to, slowly ( late late at night ) plow the [email protected]@ole in. little amounts at a time,,,, and call him the very next morning,,, ask him if he needs that entrance opened up & at the same time if you could get paid... reapeat if necessary & as many times as necessary. I had no choice,,, but unfortunately i had to do that once & once only.

In this business we all find reasons to quit everyday. People dont wanna pay, they say they didnt expect a high salt bill, they pay late, they always get other quotes, they say they dont want salt ( in the middle of the contract season & you just bought a $5000 salter ), breakdowns etc etc.,, bottom line is for us new guys, we do it cause we're hungry for $$$ & also desperate for $$$.
You get these guys who literally charge half the regular rate because theyre wrking full time jobs,,, but theyre killing the business,,, In my area,, houses are going for $400 per season ( 2" or more ),,, problem is,, thats what theyve been pricing out at for the past 5 years.

Raise your prices people !!!
$100 per hr for the plow ( 2008 ) is decent.

I bet, if everyone just stuck to a fixed price schedule & had some decent morals,,, the wrk would get spread out amongst all decent contractors, we'ed all work a little less & all make more money !
These business owners take advantage of stupid, cheap contractors. On top of it all, its a write off for them anyways.
Reason why im a lil pissed this year is 2 reasons,

1) I have this place for 1000 pr month. (2" or more )
they dont want any salt, they want it plowed persistantly, theres about 150 meters of sidewalk,
I said i wanted more money ( they brought me a quote for $100 less than my price )
this place takes a good : hour & 20 minutes each time,,, not to mention we have to back at night to clean the parking stalls.

2) I booked a contract for 300 ( month ),,, a small 10 minute plow
started off with salt @ $50 per application.
onemonth into the contract,,,, she doesnt want any more salt at all.. well what do i do now,,, how do i drop this one?? its January, 99% of contracts out there are taken.

This is what i mean,,, the business owners take advantage of us sometimes,,,\
However, contractors,,, dont make it easier sometimes because they just go low ball our prices.


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

Oasis;680976 said:


> I just got a contract here with Holiday Inn and they are amazing to work with. Small parking pad of 4 cars, circular driveway, front walkway and two city sidewalks. They pay me seaonal with salt extra. They have been great to deal with.


Aren't they just great people to deal with!!


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## downtoearthnh (Jan 16, 2009)

I have a note at the top and bottom of my statements that gives fair notice that a finance charge of 2% per month will be added to accounts that go over 30 days. Compliance rate is tremendous. Occasionally someone will call to protest, and I just let them pay, which is the point in the first place!


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## QuadPlower (Jan 4, 2007)

downtoearthnh;759506 said:


> I have a note at the top and bottom of my statements that gives fair notice that a finance charge of 2% per month will be added to accounts that go over 30 days. Compliance rate is tremendous. Occasionally someone will call to protest, and I just let them pay, which is the point in the first place!


2% is nothing. I can keep the money in the bank and make more interest. Then in 60 days I pay you.

What is your lowest credit card charging you right now?


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## lawnwolf (May 11, 2006)

QuadPlower;759548 said:


> 2% is nothing. I can keep the money in the bank and make more interest. Then in 60 days I pay you.
> 
> What is your lowest credit card charging you right now?


Can I get the name of your bank, if it is paying more than 24% interest per year I think I need to switch.:salute:


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## QuadPlower (Jan 4, 2007)

downtoearthnh;759506 said:


> I have a note at the top and bottom of my statements that gives fair notice that a finance charge of 2% per month will be added to accounts that go over 30 days. Compliance rate is tremendous. Occasionally someone will call to protest, and I just let them pay, which is the point in the first place!


Me to, but the post said 2%, not 24%.


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## Dubliner (Aug 20, 2008)

Banks give an anual percentage rate 2% X 12= 24 I do 2% on my late payers also.


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## QuadPlower (Jan 4, 2007)

Let me make this as clear as mud.

I have a credit card with an average daily balance of $7,719.73.
The Finance Charge was $64.29 last month

64.29 / 7719.73 = .00832
.00832 is my monthly interest rate.

.00832 x 12 = .0999
My APR is 9.99%

If you are charging a 2% APR then it would be .001667% per month
A $100 bill would be charged a late fee of $0.17 for a total bill of $100.17.
Doesn't really seem worth it.

I recommend charging a Late Fee of $15.00 or 18% APR which ever is higher.

The Late Fee it not an interest charged based on what the customer owes you. It is a Labor and Materials charge for your time, and the materials (stamps, paper, envelopes, computer programs, electric, etc) to send them another invoice each time they decide not to pay their bill. And there fore can be any amount you want because it is not controled

18% APR is .015% per month.
So if they have a $1,000 per month bill it would be $15.00. Anything over $1k uses the interest rate. Rates vary by state, so check with yours
At your 2% a $1,000 invoice would be $1.67


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## Dustball (Dec 5, 2008)

QuadPlower;760398 said:


> Let me make this as clear as mud.
> 
> If you are charging a 2% APR then it would be .001667% per month
> A $100 bill would be charged a late fee of $0.17 for a total bill of $100.17.
> Doesn't really seem worth it.


He said 2% per month which is the equivalent of 24% APR.



downtoearthnh;759506 said:


> I have a note at the top and bottom of my statements that gives fair notice that a finance charge of *2% per month* will be added to accounts that go over 30 days.


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## QuadPlower (Jan 4, 2007)

Dubliner;760117 said:


> Banks give an anual percentage rate 2% X 12= 24 I do 2% on my late payers also.


Charging 2% per month and a 2% APR are two different things.

If your contract says 2% APR then you can only charge them .00167 x the late amount per month and that's way too low.

If your contract says 2% late fee per month, then I would check to see what the maximum APR is in your state that you can charge. If its under 24%, then you are breaking the law and it will be hard to go to court to get your money if you have to.


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## grnstripes (Oct 18, 2008)

$50.00 late fee well worth it for the time you spend chasing it 
How many hrs have you spent so far ...... see 50.00 is nothing


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## Sno4U (Dec 30, 2003)

did u have a written contract. If not I think its gonna be pretty hard to collect late fees, etc. If it does end up in court you will be lucky to just get what he owes u (if you do not have a written contract). Thes type of people are good at "ripping off" people like us. They've been taught well by their own (complaining) customers. You can go in and ask for your money nicley at first (which it kind of sounds like you've done already) and then "ramp it up" from there. If he doesn't pay you may have to just put the snow back where it was:realmad:


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## QuadPlower (Jan 4, 2007)

Forgot what this post was about.

If this is a franchise, you need to go above his head and let the hotel chain know what he is doing.

If this a private place, then you need to go to the court house and file a small claims against him. Pay to have him served and see what happens.


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