# Hybrid backhoe



## Hysert (Dec 16, 2009)

John Deere and BMW designed a hybrid backhoe... kinda interesting? Was wondering when the hybrids would show there face in heavy construction equipment

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/03/09/john-deere-and-bmw-designed-hybrid-backhoe.html


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Hysert said:


> John Deere and BMW designed a hybrid backhoe... kinda interesting? Was wondering when the hybrids would show there face in heavy construction equipment
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/03/09/john-deere-and-bmw-designed-hybrid-backhoe.html


Specifics were not provided ...All I see is more crap to break and go wrong...That and the cost factor...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Defcon 5 said:


> Specifics were not provided ...All I see is more crap to break and go wrong...That and the cost factor...


Like it or not, I wouldn't be at all surprised if in 20-30 years or less that machines are at minimum diesel electric drive. Look at some of Deere's big wheel loaders. They're diesel electric drive now.

Look at Mean Green Mowers for example. Had a sales rep from them stop at the shop today. Certainly an interesting concept.


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## Hysert (Dec 16, 2009)

Like it or not I think something is enevitable sooner then we think?


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

A classic hybrid makes no sense. Where is the power recovery? A hybrid gains its efficiency by storing energy during deceleration, and using it during deceleration. For construction equipment, there is no power recovery. 

I can see utility in a diesel-electric drive, as it is more efficient (if heavier) than a hydraulic drive package. If you have a large battery pack, you could then have a smaller diesel motor tailored to slightly above the "Average" load, supplemented by electricity for peak demands, like breaking a pile loose while starting to lift. The problem there is if you are working the machine hard and you run out of the battery supplememtal power, it will be a dog.


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## Hysert (Dec 16, 2009)

Aerospace Eng said:


> A classic hybrid makes no sense. Where is the power recovery? A hybrid gains its efficiency by storing energy during deceleration, and using it during deceleration. For construction equipment, there is no power recovery.
> 
> I can see utility in a diesel-electric drive, as it is more efficient (if heavier) than a hydraulic drive package. If you have a large battery pack, you could then have a smaller diesel motor tailored to slightly above the "Average" load, supplemented by electricity for peak demands, like breaking a pile loose while starting to lift. The problem there is if you are working the machine hard and you run out of the battery supplememtal power, it will be a dog.


I agree!!! KERS would be hard to achieve for recovery?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Like it or not, I wouldn't be at all surprised if in 20-30 years or less that machines are at minimum diesel electric drive. Look at some of Deere's big wheel loaders. They're diesel electric drive now.
> 
> Look at Mean Green Mowers for example. Had a sales rep from them stop at the shop today. Certainly an interesting concept.


5 years I'm retired, have fun getting hosed by the EPA/gubberment


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Aerospace Eng said:


> A classic hybrid makes no sense. Where is the power recovery? A hybrid gains its efficiency by storing energy during deceleration, and using it during deceleration. For construction equipment, there is no power recovery.
> 
> I can see utility in a diesel-electric drive, as it is more efficient (if heavier) than a hydraulic drive package. If you have a large battery pack, you could then have a smaller diesel motor tailored to slightly above the "Average" load, supplemented by electricity for peak demands, like breaking a pile loose while starting to lift. The problem there is if you are working the machine hard and you run out of the battery supplememtal power, it will be a dog.


A relatively new technology trying to get into a demanding market is a disaster in the making. They better have their poop in a group before they roll it oot,


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Like it or not, I wouldn't be at all surprised if in 20-30 years or less that machines are at minimum diesel electric drive. Look at some of Deere's big wheel loaders. They're diesel electric drive now.
> 
> Look at Mean Green Mowers for example. Had a sales rep from them stop at the shop today.
> 
> Certainly an interesting concept.


That's a Lawn Mower...Very low HP compared to a piece of construction equipment...Only way you will see Hybrid construction equipment is if the government sticks their nose in there with mandates and incentives for the company's to build them...Not cost effective to build...


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

The kids of tomorrow won't need dealers either...just a printer and a schematic.

https://3dprint.com/131777/first-3d-printed-excavator/


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## Hysert (Dec 16, 2009)

As long as there's a touch screen the kids will be able to use it! Without a screen probably not???


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Defcon 5 said:


> That's a Lawn Mower...Very low HP compared to a piece of construction equipment...Only way you will see Hybrid construction equipment is if the government sticks their nose in there with mandates and incentives for the company's to build them...Not cost effective to build...


Agree completely. With current technology it isn't realistic.

Just watch commiefonia. What they mandate will become country wide sooner or later.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> The kids of tomorrow won't need dealers either...just a printer and a schematic.
> 
> https://3dprint.com/131777/first-3d-printed-excavator/


I've been around this type of printer.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

BUFF said:


> I've been around this type of printer.


That's pretty impressive. I wonder how much that sucker costs


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

John_DeereGreen said:


> That's pretty impressive. I wonder how much that sucker costs


$750 K for that size machine, a production type machine starts at $1m


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## Hysert (Dec 16, 2009)

Vary cool Buff! About 2yrs before I left my factory job making landing gear! Our company invested in high speed profiliers from a German company "Droop&Rein" these machine were single spindle 6axis about the size of a small house! They would run a 3k rpm and 4-800 inch per min!! Air cooled motors with a accuracy of .0005" it was amazing to see these machines rip around and the gantry moving in different axis at a blink of an eye, Probably 30ton of steel... cost was 6mil each and we bought 6! Start up was tough and the learning curve was huge!! After we had them set, the operator would sit at a central control and watch the tv screens for a insert failure!! They basically would run themselves!! Thank god I had the Internet!!! Technology is changing so fast it's hard to keep up


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

BUFF said:


> $750 K for that size machine, a production type machine starts at $1m


Ouch. But I'm sure usable life is a long time, and the capabilities it would give a person that needs it appear to be second to none.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Ouch. But I'm sure usable life is a long time, and the capabilities it would give a person that needs it appear to be second to none.


The consumables are pretty spendy and the learning curve is a long bumpy road which takes aboot 2yrs if you're just getting started.



Hysert said:


> Vary cool Buff! About 2yrs before I left my factory job making landing gear! Our company invested in high speed profiliers from a German company "Droop&Rein" these machine were single spindle 6axis about the size of a small house! They would run a 3k rpm and 4-800 inch per min!! Air cooled motors with a accuracy of .0005" it was amazing to see these machines rip around and the gantry moving in different axis at a blink of an eye, Probably 30ton of steel... cost was 6mil each and we bought 6! Start up was tough and the learning curve was huge!! After we had them set, the operator would sit at a central control and watch the tv screens for a insert failure!! They basically would run themselves!! Thank god I had the Internet!!! Technology is changing so fast it's hard to keep up


Machine tool and cutter technology along with CAD/CAM has made huge advances the last 10-12yrs.
BTW working in tenths has been replaced with working in microns....

I've been in shops with 7axis mill/turn machines with bar feeders, it's just amazing to see these run.

Although 5axis mills have their limitations they're still pretty cool and when machining receivers for rifles they sure are handy.
I've spent a fair amount of time around one of these


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

BUFF said:


> The consumables are pretty spendy and the learning curve is a long bumpy road which takes aboot 2yrs if you're just getting started.
> 
> Machine tool and cutter technology along with CAD/CAM has made huge advances the last 10-12yrs.
> BTW working in tenths has been replaced with working in microns....
> ...


I'd love to find a shop around us that has a multi axis CNC machine to see one working in person. Some things I feel like video just isn't the same and I would bet this is one of them.


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