# Teaching new drivers how to salt.



## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

How do you guys teach new drivers how to salt and how much to salt? 

I've been having a problem with this for a while now.. I have two drivers that know how to plow and plow every storm for me, but have never had to salt because I do all the salting. Short of driving around with them and showing exactly what settings to put the sander on for each place, how do you do it? I just know in my head by looking at what is coming out of the sander how much is needed depending on the snowpack and temps, but how do you guys teach that? The last few years I have never been able to go on snowmobile trips because Incase of the freak salt only storm (I won't leave if it's more than that).
How do you tell someone how much salt to apply? Sand is easy because you can see it.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

It's not rocket science. Tell them to salt something and sit around for 20 minutes to see how well it worked, and what they missed. Can they see the spread from where they sit in the truck?


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

First couple salt runs have them complete the route then go back to each place in order to see the progress of their application. They can spot salt from there


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

The proverbial "cutting of the cord"

Funny how what seems so easy to you can be so complex to explain and grasp to others.

Let um go and do as these guys have said. They will figure it out. If nothing else, tell the to over salt before they under salt. May cost you a bit more in salt the first few runs till they get it, but that is the life of the business owner.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

if you go away and it costs you an extra ton of salt, wouldnt the time away be worth it?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Go sledding if the salt is your only issue with your guys that you our concerned about. I got a take down light on my spreader truck you can see everything. Good Luck


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## allagashpm (Sep 29, 2012)

Have them ride along with you and explain it. Write something up so they can reference it for lots that may require more or less, or specific areas that are higher traffic etc. 
It isn't rocket science, I agree, but getting them to salt without wasting a ton of product, or increasing your liability by under salting, will take time. 
Hand the reins over to them for a couple lots and then go back with them like others have said to see how they did. 
Experience is the best teacher, and they won't learn without it.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

We've got a chart we came up with. Set spinner at x and auger at y and drive z MPH. 

It varies based on temperature, snow depth, snow consistency, and property. 

If I were starting from scratch I would probably figure out a close average. Say auger at 4, spinner at 9, and drive 10 mph, or 5 mph. Whatever will give you good results. Salting is something that really takes time in the seat to know how much to apply under given circumstances. We've got a couple guys that are good and most of the time will tell the others settings and speed and be about perfect.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

John_DeereGreen said:


> We've got a chart we came up with. Set spinner at x and auger at y and drive z MPH.
> 
> It varies based on temperature, snow depth, snow consistency, and property.
> 
> If I were starting from scratch I would probably figure out a close average. Say auger at 4, spinner at 9, and drive 10 mph, or 5 mph. Whatever will give you good results. Salting is something that really takes time in the seat to know how much to apply under given circumstances. We've got a couple guys that are good and most of the time will tell the others settings and speed and be about perfect.


Would you mind posting a picture of that chart when you can get one? I am 100% self taught and it would be nice for a starting point. No spreader this year, but hopefully next.


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## Hysert (Dec 16, 2009)

Salting is all seat time, watching and knowledge of your sites IMO!! For example a site with a lane way that doesn't get much sun will need to be pounded alot more then the open areas exposed to sun! And in spots like that I will pre wet virus not on open areas! Again all of this is temp related as well, minus 2 virus minus 15 is two different world's!!!


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

JMHConstruction said:


> Would you mind posting a picture of that chart when you can get one? I am 100% self taught and it would be nice for a starting point. No spreader this year, but hopefully next.


That wouldnt do you any good unless you have the same exact spreader, controller, spinner diameter and so on.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

LapeerLandscape said:


> That wouldnt do you any good unless you have the same exact spreader, controller, spinner diameter and so on.


I got my spreader locked where I like it. It only takes a screw driver to unlock it, But they get the picture that way on how I want them to spread. The electo- hyro pump is under the hood belt driven,


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

FredG said:


> I got my spreader locked where I like it. It only takes a screw driver to unlock it, But they get the picture that way on how I want them to spread. The electo- hyro pump is under the hood belt driven,


They are made to adjust on the fly for a reason.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

LapeerLandscape said:


> They are made to adjust on the fly for a reason.


Yes I know, But it sucks when you got a site that should take 3yrds and been using that much and he comes back cause he could not cover everything. I know some of you guys use more salt for different conditions. I don't all is I want is salt present.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JMHConstruction said:


> Would you mind posting a picture of that chart when you can get one? I am 100% self taught and it would be nice for a starting point. No spreader this year, but hopefully next.


It won't help you. Our Saltdoggs are different from our VBX's and are different from the central hydros truck.

Substantially different to be exact.

What spreader are you looking at?


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

John_DeereGreen said:


> It won't help you. Our Saltdoggs are different from our VBX's and are different from the central hydros truck.
> 
> Substantially different to be exact.
> 
> What spreader are you looking at?


At first I was going to go saltdogg, because out here EVERYONE runs them. After reading the horror stories on here I'll pass on those. It would be one of the smaller v box for a short bed. Snowex dealer is close, but heard a lot of good about boss. Honestly I haven't looked too much into them. Was distracted by my POS plow.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Boss would get my nod if I were buying electric. But I also wouldn't buy another electric.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Boss would get my nod if I were buying electric. But I also wouldn't buy another electric.


Why don't you like electric?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JMHConstruction said:


> Why don't you like electric?


Slow, overall unreliable, and extremely under powered.

We had ice a couple weeks back, I spread 4 tons on 8 acres in 12 minutes with central hydros. Turn any electric spreader on the market for F550 size trucks or smaller up all the way and it can't dump it in a pile that fast.

From what I gather, gas powered units are similarly productive, just a little more quirky.

Did I mention electric spreaders are slow?

Different strokes for different folks, but I can't see any more electric units in our future.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Slow, overall unreliable, and extremely under powered.
> 
> We had ice a couple weeks back, I spread 4 tons on 8 acres in 12 minutes with central hydros. Turn any electric spreader on the market for F550 size trucks or smaller up all the way and it can't dump it in a pile that fast.
> 
> ...


The hydros are a bit pricey for a lonely wolf like myself. I'll probably go with electric, simply because I don't want to mess with the gas engines.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JMHConstruction said:


> The hydros are a bit pricey for a lonely wolf like myself. I'll probably go with electric, simply because I don't want to mess with the gas engines.


I completely get hydro is expensive. That's why I said gas is the next best option. For us the time savings will easily pay for the cost. We spread about 30 tons an event, so every minute counts.

If I were a one or two truck show that needed to spread 4-6 tons an event I would most certainly go the gas route. Once you outgrow a tailgate spreader electric becomes too slow in my book.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

John_DeereGreen said:


> From what I gather, gas powered units are similarly productive, just a little more quirky.


As I found no matter how well you have them running at the shop, seems every time you are ready to use it, you are messing with it for a few minutes...


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## rebert (Nov 6, 2008)

Let them pre salt a few times and they will be able to see how much material is really coming out on deferent settings.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Presalting is the way I agree.

Then they see what they missed, hit, and learn how to do it right.

I had a guy start using electric with me. His comment was wow we can get a lot more done out of a ton this way. I laughed. No you are only putting down 1/2 as much. No effectiveness to your job. He then wanted the hydro back  .


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

We just do what John Deere Green does, a simple overhead drawing of the property that shows even the direction to drive, make loops etc. and spinner is set on 6-7 and drive just under 10mph and DON'T TOUCH THE FEED GATE!. I'm sure we all waist salt here and there and I understand it's kind of never racking but just simply go over the lots and check on them after the first few times out.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Me too


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

love electric.
have 20 electric units and 7 hydro.
1)The electric are not quite as fast but have never spread hydro oil on a property due to a leak.
2)need a more experienced op for hydro as app rate and spread change with throttle.
3) all our hydro are dump bed, never buy another every year someone doesn't look up and I end up replacing an awning or drive thru last one cost $18k.
4)our new electric set ups are in 1 ton pick ups and do not restrict vision at all.

That being said when I salt I get in a 2004 central hydraulic truck my favorite in the fleet. 

and gas units are nothing but a pain in the ass.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Brian Young said:


> We just do what John Deere Green does, a simple overhead drawing of the property that shows even the direction to drive, make loops etc. and spinner is set on 6-7 and drive just under 10mph and DON'T TOUCH THE FEED GATE!. I'm sure we all waist salt here and there and I understand it's kind of never racking but just simply go over the lots and check on them after the first few times out.


Yes in about 20 min. you can see what he missed lol.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

snowman55 said:


> love electric.
> have 20 electric units and 7 hydro.
> 1)The electric are not quite as fast but have never spread hydro oil on a property due to a leak.
> 2)need a more experienced op for hydro as app rate and spread change with throttle.
> ...


I got that guy with that Geil compact to let me try it out when we get snow. I operated it and loaded a truck. I liked the crab steer and the direction on the bucket control handle. The guys that work for him say it's junk in the snow and take pickup trucks.

There all lacking experience but are operators. They don't know enough to push off before they bog down or lose traction. I also liked the visibility.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

we have 4 of them and love them for 60 hp they push 8611's well like anything you need to know how to use a piece of equipment.

my operators fight over them.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

John_DeereGreen said:


> It won't help you. Our Saltdoggs are different from our VBX's and are different from the central hydros truck.
> 
> Substantially different to be exact.
> 
> What spreader are you looking at?


yep... one of our guys 4-5 years ago i sent out with ONE task, salt 3 sites about an hour south of us. He got there, salt was empty.. somehow he hit the auger drive knob, and it dumped all the salt out after he filled it up :/ Sometimes its just funny, but not usually at your dime and the customers time requirements.

It is tricky.. no one spreader is the same, no truck is the same, chain VBX vs auger drives vastly different, spinners vastly different. I've found it best to have guys do a ride a long, explain every little detail of what your doing, the sound of the spreader "if possible", do you hear salt pinging off things? if not, widen the spread faster or make sure its actually coming out... Usually then i'll get out and do a sidewalk while i let them do the parking lot themselves, but still being outside the truck now able to observe where i should correct them some or not. More salt up here, less over here, double pass this area just in case etc.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Slow, overall unreliable, and extremely under powered.
> 
> We had ice a couple weeks back, I spread 4 tons on 8 acres in 12 minutes with central hydros. Turn any electric spreader on the market for F550 size trucks or smaller up all the way and it can't dump it in a pile that fast.
> 
> ...


You often need that much salt down and that quickly? Never used a central hydro unit, ever... the electrics are all over the place, some "chain drives" can dump way faster than an auger.. the augers usually depend on how quickly its able to backfill the void in the auger, the diameter of the auger, speed etc. I agree most are not very fast, but its really rare that i have even the f350s or f550s with 4 yard units with the auger or chain set to speed of 10.. its usually 4-5 and maybe 7-8 out of 10 when able to drive faster. The augers when salt/ice starts icing up is when you're running them at 10 hoping the same amount will come out as when on #2 of 10 speed if the salt were dry and powdery. I think it just depends mostly on salt moisture content.. dump in wet salt and yeah, the electric starts to bog down and ultimately fail soon as its freezing up when below 15deg outside.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

I hate electric but I wouldn't worry about hydro until you're 5yd or bigger - we have both.

Everyone's situation is different but I hate spreaders in plow trucks, you can't plow fast, you are tearing up the truck and you will eventually back into something. 

You'll end up running an electric spreader at the same auger rate all the time, probably or at least find some sweet spot setting. Calibrate and find out how many pounds per minute it puts out - tell your driver you salt this lot for x number of minutes or seconds etc.....

Big hydro spreaders are nice for the nights you have to pound salt - they will dump in a hurry if needed. You can plumb a hydro unit so that engine rpm doesn't have much effect on how much salt you put down - it's only money.


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