# How much for this small strip mall



## rhatala

This will be my first commercial plowing job so i was wondering if anyone could help with possible bids.


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## Plowman52

what are all the services they want... shoveling salt.... etc

also seasonal or per push?


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## BUFF

Plowman52;1337130 said:


> what are all the services they want... shoveling salt.... etc
> 
> also seasonal or per push?


An idea of size would be helpful, how many square feet?


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## DaveCN5

By quick glance I'm guessing about 5,000 sq feet.


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## Wayne Volz

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## rhatala

I will get the measurements tomorrow for you all and it will be estimated on a per push basis including all sidewalks and parking lot areas with salt. I should have got that area the first time. I wasn't thinking


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## rhatala

12,000 sqft is the area of this property any ideas on a bid


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## BUFF

rhatala;1340926 said:


> 12,000 sqft is the area of this property any ideas on a bid


In my area (northern Colorado) that job would be around $125.00 per puch (2-4") , includes walks and salt.


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## snowguys

BUFF;1340935 said:


> In my area (northern Colorado) that job would be around $125.00 per puch (2-4") , includes walks and salt.


 around here (chicago) same thing he said i would be at 175.00


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## Wayne Volz

*I'm sure you guys know*

You guys know what it takes for you to make a profit I am sure. However, I would not touch that lot for that kind of money and include walks and deicing material.

Where is the money for the value of the service you are offering all those stores to continue as normal during a snow or ice event? That's what I think we are really selling.

Seems a minimum for all those walks, ice melter for walks, ice melter for plowed areas, and plowing would be more than that. I realize all markets are different, but the one constant is slip and fall opportunities. I think sometimes we sell the value of the service we offer too cheap.


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## CGM Inc.

We clear the snow for 125$ and add salt extra maybe 150$ or so.
+5000$ seasonal for sure salt inclusive.


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## BUFF

Wayne Volz;1341090 said:


> You guys know what it takes for you to make a profit I am sure. However, I would not touch that lot for that kind of money and include walks and deicing material.
> 
> Where is the money for the value of the service you are offering all those stores to continue as normal during a snow or ice event? That's what I think we are really selling.
> 
> Seems a minimum for all those walks, ice melter for walks, ice melter for plowed areas, and plowing would be more than that. I realize all markets are different, but the one constant is slip and fall opportunities. I think sometimes we sell the value of the service we offer too cheap.


You make some very valid points, the strongest being the market area and knowing your operating cost. A lot this size shouldn't take one guy more than 35 minutes to do complete when the lot is empty. 
I find it interesting to see the difference between Snoguys, CGM Inc's and my rate. But given the cost of living of the three areas we come from I'd have to think we're all in line for our areas we work.


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## coyote

I dont live in Jersey but know the peice of services there. Double it.


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## Jguck25

In my area that would go for about 225-275 per push including shoveling, salting walks, and salting lot.


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## coyote

and knowing how people are in your area dont forget about trucking it away. Tell them thats an add on price.


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## Ne1

you really need to be directing that question to be in your area. i could tell you what that would go for around here but your area it would most likely be way off. jmo


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## Laszlo Almasi

While that location looks simple enough, I'd make sure you will cover all of your expenses. $125 plus material? Not me. Now, $125 plus material plus ground crew might be a little different story. I myself could knock that lot out in 30 min tops provided the lot was completely empty. But your ground crew will be there longer taking care of the sidewalks. If cars are in the lot your time can easily double.

Don't sell yourself short or hurt the market for your services. I agree with Wayne in that many providers sell their service for much less than it is actually worth. Each year they will want it for a little less and less and then the next thing you know you are hardly covering yourself and not making enough profit to make it worth the work and effort.

I just turned down a local grocery store here in NC with 150 spaces, rear docks, sidewalks, 2 entrances, and equivalent of 3 lanes wrapping around the rear of the store. How much were they offering per push? $171 plus $80 for deicing material. I actually laughed when I read their proposal. I myself won't drop my plow on the ground for that much. I have much smaller locations (fast food locations) that I bill $125-150 per 2" push plus material if needed and I don't have to touch the sidewalks at all.


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## CGM Inc.

....how often do you have a completly empty lot?
In a perfect world snow is done at 1.00am and we can plow and salt before open of business.
We always figure a return trip per event to clean up full or tight spaces.

Most of our clients also want that service!


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## DodgeBlizzard

CGM Inc.;1345156 said:


> ....how often do you have a completly empty lot?
> In a perfect world snow is done at 1.00am and we can plow and salt before open of business.
> We always figure a return trip per event to clean up full or tight spaces.
> 
> Most of our clients also want that service!


Do you charge an additional fee for that return trip?


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## Laszlo Almasi

CGM Inc.;1345156 said:


> ....how often do you have a completly empty lot?
> In a perfect world snow is done at 1.00am and we can plow and salt before open of business.
> We always figure a return trip per event to clean up full or tight spaces.
> 
> Most of our clients also want that service!


How often? Depends on the time of day but if it is during the day....NEVER!! I actually had one guy last season that intentionally parked his work van right where I was getting ready to plow. He went around and parked in the direction I was pushing rather than wait until I made a couple more pases and park in the clear. You can only imagine how much snow was packed neatly around his van when he returned the next day. I made sure he was going to have to work to get his piece of crap out. 

So, that being said...expect to have at least 2-3 cars in the way. And you will be surprised how much time those few vehicles will eat up.


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## CGM Inc.

DodgeBlizzard;1345303 said:


> Do you charge an additional fee for that return trip?


All built into the seasonal price. We have nothing on a per event basis.


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## ladder6

Start at $250 in 3" increments. Adjust accordingly at a reduced rate for return visits. This includes walkway salting. Salt/sand lot when needed. This is commercial, so keep in mind "liability" for slips and falls. That liability that you are taking on is worth something. If you get sued, wait and see what your insurance costs will be for the next year, if you can find insurance to cover you. I am a firm believer of "you get what you pay for." Provide great service and hopefully you can keep the account. There are plenty of people out there that cut off their own p*&^cks just to get the account. Key word..."LIABILITY!" Do not sell yourself short. Just saying...


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## wilsonsground

125$ per push 1 truck 1 shoveler while you plow. saltings at end of ever storm at 'x' rate unless requested during storm


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## Mr.Markus

I like the $5000 seasonal + airfare.


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## MIDTOWNPC

With an empty unit the owner is going to have to float that empty units common costs. Not your problem but maybe offer a discount for a multi year seasonal deal If the have longer term
Tenants you can learn what they want and build a relationship. 
Probably something at the back with dumpsters? Don't forget that On new pavement salt will be reduced as when the sun hits that black it will be dry

Computer store! Lots of money. Lol.


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## CGM Inc.

MIDTOWNPC;1480423 said:


> With an empty unit the owner is going to have to float that empty units common costs. Not your problem but maybe offer a discount for a multi year seasonal deal If the have longer term
> Tenants you can learn what they want and build a relationship.
> Probably something at the back with dumpsters? Don't forget that On new pavement salt will be reduced as when the sun hits that black it will be dry
> 
> Computer store! Lots of money. Lol.


On new pavement it also freezes a lot quicker since the water accumulates on the oil film.
I take old and crumpled over black and new any time a day


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## MIDTOWNPC

Never knew that actually


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## Mr.Markus

CGM Inc.;1480426 said:


> On new pavement it also freezes a lot quicker since the water accumulates on the oil film.
> I take old and crumpled over black and new any time a day


Same for concreteThumbs Up


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## peteo1

Just to stir the pot a little.....if your paving/concrete crew has any clue as to what they're doing, the water should never pool up and freeze on the lot, sidewalks, etc.


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## CGM Inc.

peteo1;1480460 said:


> Just to stir the pot a little.....if your paving/concrete crew has any clue as to what they're doing, the water should never pool up and freeze on the lot, sidewalks, etc.


We don't pave or do asphalt. One of our properties got new asphalt 2 years ago.....what a difference! Any run-off will freeze on the way to the drain! I'm in there sometimes salting twice a day when we are around 0 degree! It warms up quick during sunshine and freezes just as fast when it gets cold. Not something you want to take a chance.

As long as tere is a supply of water (snow bank) it will freeze no matter what grading you have.


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## PhilFromErie

average in my market would be probably $95 at the most. I would bid $150 and wouldn't get it.


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## TPC Services

Wayne Volz;1341090 said:


> You guys know what it takes for you to make a profit I am sure. However, I would not touch that lot for that kind of money and include walks and deicing material.
> 
> Where is the money for the value of the service you are offering all those stores to continue as normal during a snow or ice event? That's what I think we are really selling.
> 
> Seems a minimum for all those walks, ice melter for walks, ice melter for plowed areas, and plowing would be more than that. I realize all markets are different, but the one constant is slip and fall opportunities. I think sometimes we sell the value of the service we offer too cheap.


Wayne, I think you have very valid points and I would love to charge for what I'm selling in quality of services but around here that don't account for crap anymore. It's all about lowballing. Especially when you have Truegreen bidding stuff at $45 and hour!!! And that's not counting the retards that decided to go and buy a plow that has not clue a flipping clue of the ins and outs of what it takes to plow a property right around here they are all in it for the quick buck. Your lucky to get $60 to $65 bucks an hr here. While you can go to Council Bluffs and get $70 from what I have been told. I hope we have another crappy snow fall year to get rid of these lowballing tools..


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