# Belos (Trans Giant)



## Aerospace Eng

I figured I would start this thread as a running review/commentary on the Belos (now Karcher) equipment, based on my single-machine experience. I have a Trans Giant (now MIC 84), but most of what I have to say should be applicable to their other machines.

Bottom line, I like the design overall, and even though there is only one dealer in the US at the moment (Minnesota Equipment, formerly Scharber Equipment), I would not hesitate to get another Belos/Karcher if the price was reasonable.

The backstory is that Fred pointed it out on an Auction site. It was being sold by Ticonderoga, NY. They had purchased it in 2008 to do sidewalks, but it was too big for them (I don't know why they didn't get the next size down) and they rolled it down an embankment by drifting off a sidewalk. The damage was mostly fixed, but there are some things I have to work on.

Ticonderoga bought it through Tenco's Vermont location. Tenco had an agreement to sell the Belos units at the time. Belos was sold from GGP to Karcher in February 2011. Meanwhile, also in 2011, Tenco went into receivership, and was bought by the Alamo group in August. When the sales/dealer agreement fell apart, I don't know.

The Trans Giant I bought was equipped with a Tenco-branded snowblower (actually made by Pronovost), a Tenco branded spreader (actually made by a company that was bought by Metec), and a dump bed made by who knows.

This thread is likely to ramble a bit, as I discuss the things I do and do not like about the engineering/design and also the repairs/modifications I am working on.

Basic specifications.....
84 Hp (Kubota V-3300T)
Hydrostatic drive through wheel motors
Articulated Steering
Implements driven hydraulically (no mechanical PTO) Total flow 120 liters (31.7 gallons) per minute at 3000 PSI, which can be split between front and rear implements
Empty Weight 2300 kg (5070 lb)
Maximum Weight 5000 kg (11,023 lb)
Length 3215 mm (126.6 in)
Width 1370-1590 mm (54-62.5 in) depending on tyres (tires)
Height 2030 mm (80 in)


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## BUFF

Does it have the Blue Tooth.......
All joking aside, good write and cool machine.Thumbs Up


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## Aerospace Eng

Nope, but it does have an AM/FM/CD Player stereo.


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## Aerospace Eng

One of the things that has surprised me on this has been corrosion. I don't use much salt at my house, and it isn't allowed at the airport. I thought that the corrosion would be like I see on cars. However, Ticonderoga used this for salting sidewalks. Although there isn't any significant structural corrosion, the overall level was something I was not prepared for.

The main battery switch was so corroded such that it wouldn't move and the handle was broken off.









The alternator was corroded as well. The belt was loose even through the alternator was at the end of its adjustment range.










It turns out the alternator was at the end of its adjustment range because the pulley was corroded such that it was eating the belt. It was riding on the bottom of the pulley groove, as shown by the pulley.

The wear was significant. In the picture below, the one on the left started at the same width as the one on the right.










I got an alternator online, and ordered a belt from the local Kubota dealer. While waiting for the belt to come in, I put on one from tractor supply. The alternator case and tensioning ear were broken. I don't know if corrosion had anything to do with this, or it happened when the tractor was rolled, or someone tried to pry it tighter without loosening the bolts.










In the two hours or so that it ran while waiting for a new alternator and belt, it chewed up the tractor supply belt, as evidenced by the blue fuzz.










At any rate, I got a new alternator and switch and put them in.










I'm not sure yet if the water pump pulley and the crank pulley are also corroded to where they will also eat the belt.


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## BUFF

Seeing was salt does just blows my mind away. I would think being a muni rig it would have been washed down after every use trying to midigate the corrsion.


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## Mr.Markus

What are the hours on the machine?
Without knowing the history or if the tensioner was improperly adjusted or not, it could also be probable that someone swapped in an old alt with the wrong pulley that they thought would do the job ,v belt pulleys will decimate a flat belt quickly.


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## Aerospace Eng

1144.2 when I bought it. About 1150 now.

No tensioner. The alternator setup is like an older car. V belt around the crank and water pump pulleys, with the tension being adjusted by the alternator itself.


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## Aerospace Eng

BUFF said:


> Seeing was salt does just blows my mind away. I would think being a muni rig it would have been washed down after every use trying to midigate the corrsion.


I think they walked around the outside once in a while, spraying it down, but that wasn't going to help in this salting application. You needed to remove the three panels on the rear (two sides and then the front). It's hard to see, and I don't have a picture, but there is sort of a flat-bed that goes over the engine, and hinges at the front to allow access. It can be seen in this brochure....

https://www.minnesotaequipment.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Page-5.4.7-Belos-Manual-TransGiant.pdf

The side panels hook onto a flange on the side of this, and then are held at the bottom with a rubber holder on the front and back. By design, this is simple, and takes a minute or so to get access.

However, the idiots that designed the dump bed placed the frame rails in exactly the wrong spot, so that it interferes with removal of the panels. You can get them out, but it is about 10 minutes of struggle. The dump bed design also interferes with putting in diesel (As shown in the first photo in the thread, the cylinder on the left is directly over the fill cap when the bed is down), or adding hydraulic fluid.

The hydraulic fluid is added through the return filter compartment, rather than directly into the tank. This is because with hydrostatics and proportional valves many fluids straight from the can would contain particles too large for proper functioning.










However, this access panel was also directly under the dump bed frame.










I think the problems with access contributed to stripping of two threads in the filter housing. They had been replaced with through bolts. However, in operation I noted that I was leaking fluid out of the filter housing, so when I got it apart, I replaced the third bolt with a through bolt as well. Hydraulic leak fixed.

Also note the completely useless tiedown/lifting fittings on the bed frame. They are completely covered by the cylinder when the bed is down.

There was no reason they couldn't have made the dump bed wider (out to the edge of the panels). It would have made the dump bed more useful (larger). The only drawback would be that you would have to make the dump bed get narrower at the rear to ensure you dumped in the spreader, and had the bed up to fuel.

At any rate, without removing the panels, there is no way to effectively wash down the engine compartment.

The air for the engine and cooling is drawn through the screens on the side and one at the rear on the flat-bed. In a salting application, this means that you are drawing air from near the salt pile in the bed and/or salter.

I think that Ticonderoga could have done a better job washing it down, as most of the hydraulic fittings are so corroded they can't be disconnected/reconnected, but I place most of the blame on the idiotic dump bed frame design.


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## FredG

Mr.Markus said:


> What are the hours on the machine?
> Without knowing the history or if the tensioner was improperly adjusted or not, it could also be probable that someone swapped in an old alt with the wrong pulley that they thought would do the job ,v belt pulleys will decimate a flat belt quickly.


The machine was bought brand new by the highway superintendent before Dennis bought it. They replaced it with a smaller tracked bomby with a steering wheel brand new, Accept it is branded pronovost.


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## FredG

Glade your mostly happy with it Dennis. Thumbs Up


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## John_DeereGreen

Aerospace Eng said:


> I think they walked around the outside once in a while, spraying it down, but that wasn't going to help in this salting application. You needed to remove the three panels on the rear (two sides and then the front). It's hard to see, and I don't have a picture, but there is sort of a flat-bed that goes over the engine, and hinges at the front to allow access. It can be seen in this brochure....
> 
> https://www.minnesotaequipment.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Page-5.4.7-Belos-Manual-TransGiant.pdf
> 
> The side panels hook onto a flange on the side of this, and then are held at the bottom with a rubber holder on the front and back. By design, this is simple, and takes a minute or so to get access.
> 
> However, the idiots that designed the dump bed placed the frame rails in exactly the wrong spot, so that it interferes with removal of the panels. You can get them out, but it is about 10 minutes of struggle. The dump bed design also interferes with putting in diesel (As shown in the first photo in the thread, the cylinder on the left is directly over the fill cap when the bed is down), or adding hydraulic fluid.
> 
> The hydraulic fluid is added through the return filter compartment, rather than directly into the tank. This is because with hydrostatics and proportional valves many fluids straight from the can would contain particles too large for proper functioning.
> 
> View attachment 180945
> 
> 
> However, this access panel was also directly under the dump bed frame.
> 
> View attachment 180946
> 
> 
> I think the problems with access contributed to stripping of two threads in the filter housing. They had been replaced with through bolts. However, in operation I noted that I was leaking fluid out of the filter housing, so when I got it apart, I replaced the third bolt with a through bolt as well. Hydraulic leak fixed.
> 
> Also note the completely useless tiedown/lifting fittings on the bed frame. They are completely covered by the cylinder when the bed is down.
> 
> There was no reason they couldn't have made the dump bed wider (out to the edge of the panels). It would have made the dump bed more useful (larger). The only drawback would be that you would have to make the dump bed get narrower at the rear to ensure you dumped in the spreader, and had the bed up to fuel.
> 
> At any rate, without removing the panels, there is no way to effectively wash down the engine compartment.
> 
> The air for the engine and cooling is drawn through the screens on the side and one at the rear on the flat-bed. In a salting application, this means that you are drawing air from near the salt pile in the bed and/or salter.
> 
> I think that Ticonderoga could have done a better job washing it down, as most of the hydraulic fittings are so corroded they can't be disconnected/reconnected, but I place most of the blame on the idiotic dump bed frame design.


And that is why engineers should be required to perform routine maintenance and at least minor repairs on the prototype of just about everything they design. It seems like this unit is set up similar to the Bobcat Toolcats in which they drastically over complicate even stuff that should be simple.


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## Aerospace Eng

John_DeereGreen said:


> And that is why engineers should be required to perform routine maintenance and at least minor repairs on the prototype of just about everything they design. It seems like this unit is set up similar to the Bobcat Toolcats in which they drastically over complicate even stuff that should be simple.


I'm sorry if my posts were unclear. I don't think the Belos is overly complicated. I actually like the design a lot.

Although the all-hydraulic design seems complicated, and does require cleanliness of the system, the lack of a mechanical PTO or driveshafts means they don't have to be accommodated, that there is no clutch for the PTO to fail, no universal joints, short shafts through the articulation, etc. More on that design choice later.

With respect to servicing, the problem was whoever designed/built the Tenco branded dump bed. As designed and built from the factory, the servicing is generally easy.

For example, based on my experience with the windows fogging this past winter, and the lack of a vent window (which I do think is a design flaw/oversight), I started to tackle the air conditioning. The compressor is tucked down behind the fuel tank.



















It looks like a pain in the butt, but if you undo one bolt, the fuel tank swings out and gives good access. The bolt above allows the oil cooler to swing up to perform maintenance on the fan, but the stupid dump bed frame was in the way of that, which is one reason I removed it. (Yes, there is more corrosion there)



















One of the fitting was broken off (whether due to corrosion or impact, I don't know). I also don't know if there is a good way to clean up the crank pulley so that it doesn't chew up the belt, or whether I will have to remove/replace it.










Removal wasn't that bad with the access, although the engineers at Belos/Kubota made it difficult to remove the mounting bolts since the holes are threaded, and I couldn't just push out the bolts after I got the nuts off. The lower frame rail was too high to allow straight access to the mounting bolts, and the access from underneath was obstructed by hydraulic hoses and electrical lines.










It took a while turning the bolts a 12th of a turn at a time, but I got the compressor out. With non-corroded bolts the reinstallation should be easier.


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## John_DeereGreen

Man that thing is crusty. Even with frequent washing, salt gets everywhere and wreaks havoc in a very short order. 

And I was under the impression the whole machine was made by one company. Not the base machine was made by someone and then another company put the bed on. That's my bad...


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## Aerospace Eng

FredG said:


> Glade your mostly happy with it Dennis. Thumbs Up


I'm very happy with it. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

It was still cheaper than a new SCUT with cab and blower, and much more capable (as long as you don't need to fit it on narrow walks). Dealing with the salt, alternator, air conditioning, etc. is just part of what you get buying used.


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## Aerospace Eng

Wheels and Tires......

I bought it with some 16" wheels that Ticonderoga had had custom made, so that they could fit some light truck tires (what's on there is 7.50x16 studdable snow tires).










If I want to use it in the summer around my house, it needs to be able to move in dirt and clay. The tire pressure for the truck tires is too high for off road work on an unsuspended vehicle. Also, one of the wheels was slightly bent when they rolled it. Lastly, I didn't like those tires when rolling along at top speed (25 mph).

Unfortunately, the turf wheels and tires were kept/lost by Ticonderoga, and replacements are hard to come by, as the wheels are odd due to the hydraulic wheel motors (5x160mm bolt pattern, 95.7mm center bore).

Minnesota Equipment had two set of takeoffs, one set of wheels with 380/60-15 turf tires and one a set of 12-16.5 skidsteer type tires. They wanted $1600 a set (wheels and tires included). They might have been used, but they weren't even worn enough for the little rubber injection tubes to have worn off.





































After some negotiation, I wound up buying the skidsteer set (and a used 6' broom).


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## Aerospace Eng

I decided to remove the dump bed. I first had to remove the spreader. It was relatively easy, as it was only held in with three pins.



















The pins were somewhat corroded....


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Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










I disconnected the 7 pin connector for the lights, but could not get the hydraulic connectors apart.










I took the hoses off the connectors and reconnected them into loops, one on the machine and one on the spreader. One of the issues is that the connectors themselves are not common in the U.S., which makes them expensive. They are made by Voswinkel, and are screw together. The problem is that they are the same for the front and rear hydrostatic output (photo below is of the front connector plug after I removed the snowblower. If I replace the rear, I would also want to replace the front, but then that is more connectors. I haven't decided what I am going to do yet.










There is corrosion on the spreader, as expected, and the seal is leaking on the motor. I'm not going to worry about either now as it would only be used for spreading NAAC deicer, but will recondition it (remove the corrosion, repaint, and replace the lights and motor) before I put the spreader back on (if I do).


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## Aerospace Eng

Getting the dump bed off was a bit more of a pain in the butt.

The bottom mounting went into frame rails, and had a wedge mechanism to prevent slop. Not a bad idea, except when it corrodes. I loosened the bolts, and tried to use them to drive the wedges back, to no avail. It eventually took a long punch with a beefy sledge, but I did get them to slide and loosen.










The next problem was getting the bed off, as the lifting lugs were useless, as mentioned above.










I wound up gingerly getting the forks of my telehandler underneath, popping the front off the front crossmember (it had rusted to it), and then sliding it back. I could not get the quick connects loose, as they were too corroded, so I just removed the hoses from the dump bed, drained them, and zip-tied a rag around them until I can get the connectors off.










I put it in another hangar until I decide what to do with it. It is not going back on.










I might cut off the bracketry for the spreader, add a brace for the top, and put it back on so that I can spread if I want to. I'm thinking of using the upper frame and the bed itself to make a dump trailer that could be pulled by the Trans Giant.


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## Aerospace Eng

Pictures of the used broom I bought....

72", so 62" wide when angled 30 degrees.

32" diameter wafers


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## Mr.Markus

That hydraulic motor sticks out quite a bit...does the a frame oscillate on the 3 pth? That is nicely built.


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## Mark Oomkes

Is that entire thing made oot of Chinese steel? 

Good grief, that amount of corrosion is unreal. I wonder if they only used mag or calcium and maybe washed it oof at the end of the season. Or figured parking it in the rain was good enough.


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## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> Is that entire thing made oot of Chinese steel?
> 
> Good grief, that amount of corrosion is unreal. I wonder if they only used mag or calcium and maybe washed it oof at the end of the season. Or figured parking it in the rain was good enough.


Does appear to be a fair amount of corrosion, It was always parked in the shop, had to dig it out when I got there. Must be all his help retired, the guy in the shop and his highway guys were young probably mid twenty's.

When they help me tie it down he had to push his guys a side as they did not know.


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## Aerospace Eng

Mr.Markus said:


> That hydraulic motor sticks out quite a bit...does the a frame oscillate on the 3 pth? That is nicely built.


Yes. I'll take some pictures when it shows up. Maybe I'll have the machine back together by then.


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## Aerospace Eng

Mark Oomkes said:


> Is that entire thing made oot of Chinese steel?
> 
> Good grief, that amount of corrosion is unreal. I wonder if they only used mag or calcium and maybe washed it oof at the end of the season. Or figured parking it in the rain was good enough.


It's not Chinese steel, or any other countries steel, it is lack of washing with the salt. I think they went around it with a power washer, but never really tried to get into the crevices, etc. I found some chunks of salt on the frame in some out-of-the-way places.

For example, here is a picture of the top articulation connection. The rear of it is not in bad shape, because it was out where a walk around spray would get to it. The front is corroded, because it is under the cab, so without lifting the cab or using a wand with a bent tip, you won't be able to wash it out. The lift strut I took off, descaled, grit blasted, and painted, as I wanted to make sure it was structurally sound before I stuck my head underneath.​









Similarly, here is a picture of the back. Where covered by the spreader, the corrosion was worse. Note the scale on the light mount.










Here are two pictures of the battery tray....
When the battery gets changed, it should have been descaled and repainted but was not. The first picture shows a large chunk of scale that came off the top side. The bottom will not get washed unless the battery tray was removed. With respect to the bottom, this is a design issue due to the crevice formed.



















Band clamps were rusted together. One is for the intake, one was for the receiver drier. They had to be cut, as even with the worm removed they would not come apart.



















I used a punch and prybar to get the small hydraulic fittings apart. Obviously, they aren't going back on until they are replaced. The debris in the second photo is due to starting to work with a needle scaler on the rear plate before I got the fittings apart.



















I decided to go to town with a needle scaler....This is the right rear, but there is much more to do.


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## Aerospace Eng

Given the amount of corrosion, I am actually even more impressed with the design and think the all-hydraulic setup is the way to go. Despite the corrosion, except for burned out or broken light bulbs, everything electric and/or hydraulic on the machine works. I have read about some Holder tractors on here which have PTO clutch problems, probably because the insides corrode (I have no personal experience).


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## John_DeereGreen

What brand of needle scaler do you have? I've got some stuff that needs similar attention.


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## Aerospace Eng

Ingersoll Rand. IR 125

I got it from Tooltopia, along with an in-line oiler


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## Aerospace Eng

In order to address the air conditioning, I needed to replace the suction hose. Not only was a broken off fitting from the compressor stuck in it, but it had corroded so that it was no longer crimped.










As an aside, I found that the air conditioning fittings were all SAE sizes, despite the system being designed in Europe. The hoses, for example, were Goodyear Galaxy -12, -10, and -8, with SAE sized b-nuts The rest of the machine is metric (so far).

The air conditioning evaporator sits under the seat. Since the cab tilts forward, this means that everything has to run to somewhere near the hinge, and then back to wherever it is going on the inside. In the photo from underneath, the air conditioning hoses to and from the evaporator are the ones zip-tied with white ties. In this case, there is a plastic cover (removed in the front side photo) that covers the hoses running along the right wheel well.



















This results in a very long run of hose. I think they should have hard-lined most of it, with a hose just at the bend, and also at the articulation joint. The tradeoff is that then you have more connections that could cause a problem. I'm not sure from a cost perspective which is more, as hose is more expensive than hard lines, but the connections are expensive.










In this year, even though the seat is on a separate piece of metal, the seat had to be removed to access the air conditioning components since a hold down bolt went through the AC system cover. In later models, the seat tilts forward and this is not an issue. However, the seat was easy to remove, just 4 bolts and a few electrical connectors.










I had to cut three wires, since a switch to run an aux 12V power circuit had been added (the last switch on the right). I think it was to run a water pump for a broom or watering boom. The cut wires are visible on the right side. I'll add some sort of disconnect when I reassemble.


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## Aerospace Eng

One design feature that I like is that the joystick is mounted to the seat, which is air-ride. On some other tractors I have seen the joystick is on a side console. When the seat moves relative to the cab it disturbs your positioning and can lead to unwanted control input.

Another design feature I like is that all of the hydraulics are proportional. This means that if I want to rotate the blower chute, I can make it happen quickly or I can make it happen in 2-3 minutes, depending on how far I displace the joystick or move the switches. I can dump the bed, raise or lower the implement, etc. as quickly or slowly as I want.

The two switches on the joystick and the joystick motion can be assigned to different functions as well.

The two rheostats control the front and rear PTO speeds (hydraulic flow) with the flow being turned on and off by the switches below them. ​


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## Aerospace Eng

I've been working on some of the corrosion where I can get to it. Needle scaler, then scotchbrite pad on a die grinder, then a wire brush. If the paint sticks real well, I just leave it and paint over it. I'm doing it piecemeal... when I get one part done, I brush on some primer.

I'm just using a brush, as it is covered anyway. The idea is corrosion prevention, not a great paint job at the moment.

For example, I haven't removed the hydraulic connectors. When I do, I will repaint. Similarly, the bolts holding the rubber strap body connector are corroded. To get it out, I have to destroy it, so I am leaving it in place. When I have to replace it, I will repaint.

Similarly, I can't get to the area of the square frame covered by the hydraulic tank, so I will just spray some LPS 3 or Cosmoline in there after I get it back together.










First coat is just rustoleum rusty metal primer, then a top coat of ANSI 49 gray enamel.

The corrosion had eaten through the fan shroud, but I'll just use foil tape over the hole until I need to work on the fan/oil cooler.










I didn't remove the hydraulic tank, but just painted it in place. I didn't undo hydraulic lines to get to the top of the wheel motor. When I have to replace a line (or have the time to), I'll work on that area. I did want to paint the area of the frame behind the wheels, so I don't have to remove them to paint/descale those areas.


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## Aerospace Eng

So I priced the air conditioning compressor through the only dealer in the US. $2053. Fortunately, I could still read the data plate. It turns out that it is basically the same compressor as on a Bobcat (330 I think), except that it has two spade connectors (which were corroded and I don't like in this type of environment, and the bobcat has a Delphi connector. I bought a Bobcat compressor for $230.


























I liked the Delphi connector better, so I ordered some connectors, pins, and special crimpers. Unfortunately, I mis-identified the connector series, so I had to replace the one on the compressor as well. No big deal.









I cut off the old connectors, stuck the cable seals on (do this before stripping). Then strip, crimp, and insert. A nice sealed setup.


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## Aerospace Eng

I had painted the compressor bracket where it would be covered by the compressor. I bought new bolts and reinstalled them.

It was easier to get the lower bolts back in than coming out because I could generally turn them by hand, but it was still a pain in the butt due to the lack of clearance. The next time the compressor gets removed, I'm replacing the bolts with socket head cap screws.


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## Aerospace Eng

I had removed the front frame to get it blasted and painted, along with some of the components from the rear and the battery box. One of the bolts mounting it to the frame had broken when I tried to remove it. I was having no luck, and I didn't want to use a torch adjacent to hydraulic lines, so I thought I would try an induction heater.










I bought a "Bolt-Buster II" for this and other projects.



















It worked as advertised in one sense. In about 15 seconds, the bolt was red hot. In the picture, the part of the bolt in the frame has cooled, but the top is still hot. The hydraulic hose and crimps were cool to the touch.










(I know I want to heat around the bolt, but I figured some differential expansion and contraction might help wick in some penetrating oil). There is also an induction coil for flat surfaces, but it takes to long to get the picture, so you can't see it red.

Although it works in terms of heating things up quickly and locally, I still was not able to get the bolt removed. I'll try it over a few days and see if I get the bolt removed.


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## Aerospace Eng

Lastly, the tires and broom were shipped.

However, only the tires showed up. I'm not sure how you lose a big yellow broom strapped to a pallet (It's not like it can accidentally fall off and get lost in a corner or put in somebody's trunk. It's been a week, and it is still UTL.


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## FredG

Looking good Dennis, Nice job finding the AC compressor for the money,Thumbs Up


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## John_DeereGreen

Moving along! 

Pretty impressive (not in a good way) that the shipping company was able to lose a broom of that size...


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## Aerospace Eng

As I've said before, I'm generally impressed with the design, with fully proportional controls on an arm mounted to the pneumatic seat. even over relatively rough terrain it is easy to control.

As noted before, the two knobs on the top are the volume controls for the hydrostatic pumps for the front and rear implements.

The knob closest to the joystick is the engine RPM command. It is inactive when in "road" mode, where the engine speeds up and slows down with the foot pedal. When you engage the hydrostatic implements, the throttle is controlled by the knob, and the foot pedal controls the speed. There is a speed control function that, when engaged, will slow down the vehicle from its set speed if the implements start to bog down, and then return to the set speed when the going gets easier.









The switch on the right is the forward/neutral/reverse switch. One of the things that I occasionally forget to do is to set the parking brake when leaving the cab. When you take your foot off the pedal, the machine stops, even in Forward or Reverse. There is no creeping. Either there is no seat safety on this vintage, or someone disabled it (The current Karcher version has a seat safety).

I'm of two minds with respect to a seat safety. It's actually nice to be able to start the blower slowly turning over and then walk around it checking it and letting the hydraulic fluid warm up, and/or dribbling oil on the auger chain, but I recognize that this represents an additional hazard.

The red button is to change the functions of the motion if you have that many hydraulic hook-ups. Without touching the button, there are 4 independent functions, and the assignment can be varied by the operator. Currently, it is set up so that fore/aft is up/down. To actuate float, push forward quickly and release. Side to side on is currently chute rotation. The left rheostat is chute deflector extension/retraction, and the right rheostat is dump body raise/lower.

If you touch the button, you can get 4 more.









With respect to the joystick itself.....

One of the things that the reader may have noticed in the above pictures was the blue tape holding together the joystick. When I got the machine, it was held together with electrical tape, which was getting gummy. I cut the electrical tape off, and the joystick fell apart. I think it was probably broken when they rolled the machine. Every function still works, however.


























I was quoted $3206.95 for a new joystick. I expected it to be expensive, because the hydraulic controls are all proportional, using pwm to stroke the valves. I still don't think the joystick should be that expensive, but I couldn't find an alternate source, and a joystick repair company that specializes in rebuilding manlift joysticks indicated they could not help with this one.

The joystick casing was not available as a separate part.

I decided that putting it back together carefully and holding it with tape was OK.

In the near term, I will probably find some large heat shrink and replace the tape with that. In the longer term, I may try to repair the broken posts with circuit board standoffs glued into place, or make a new housing with additive manufacturing (e.g. 3-d printing).


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## BUFF

If I was drop off a couple projects would you consider finishing them....... nice work DennisThumbs Up


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## the Suburbanite

You could buy a 3d printer and make a new housing for less than the cost of a joystick! Enjoying the thread. Thanks for posting


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## BUFF

the Suburbanite said:


> You could buy a 3d printer and make a new housing for less than the cost of a joystick! Enjoying the thread. Thanks for posting


The 3-d printer we have at work was $45k and it only can print a part 10X8X6.


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## the Suburbanite

BUFF said:


> The 3-d printer we have at work was $45k and it only can print a part 10X8X6.


I have a bunch of Vanagon Westfalia Interior trim pieces (fuse box cover 6"x7"x2", radius corners, clips, etc) that my buddy printed me on his sub $2K printer


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## BUFF

the Suburbanite said:


> I have a bunch of Vanagon Westfalia Interior trim pieces (fuse box cover 6"x7"x2", radius corners, clips, etc) that my buddy printed me on his sub $2K printer


Ours is similar to a ink jet printer, the resin is liquid and cured with UV light. The layer thickness is .0001" thick and it holds +/- .003" tolerances and hi heat resins are good up to 200*F.


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## John_DeereGreen

Not sure who made it or what all it needs to accomplish, but SureGrip Controls might be able to help you. I was going to have them build a multi function joystick for my Toolcat that had several variable flow controls on it and it was less than 2k.


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## Aerospace Eng

The broom showed up today. I have no idea where it had been hiding.

The front part of the hood is dinged up, but the rest is in like-new condition.


















To answer Mr. Markus' question from a few weeks ago, yes, it does pivot longitudinally.


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## Aerospace Eng

I put the right rear tire on a few days ago. Even through they are only 1.5" bigger in diameter than the 7.50-16LT snow tires, they look a lot bigger in diameter.

I think they will be too wide (nominally 53.8") for the snowblower (54"), however.

I will either have to put the snow tires back on for winter or get wings for the blower.


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## Aerospace Eng

One of the left front wheel studs was broken when I bought the machine. The threads are oddball (18mmx1.5mm) so the studs and lug nuts had to come from Europe.

Getting the brake drum off was a bit of a pain, as the slack adjusters did not want to loosen. Eventually, I got it apart. The linings are like new, as with the hydrostatic transmission the brakes are only used for parking. I have never had to touch the service brake pedal.










Once the stud was out, I managed to get the new stud in after some tribulations without having to disassemble the brake. Drew it tight into the hub using some flat faced hex nuts I got from McMaster, coated with moly so it would turn on the face.










As long as I was working on the wheel motor, I decided to clean up the area. Although I like the design overall, there are a few areas where I think it came up short. This is one of them. The wheel motors are inset in the frame, which provides lots of nooks and crannies to hold stuff.



















As shown, the entire top part of the motor was covered with fine dirt, and small pieces of vegetation. Although this should have been cleaned off, and the design provides holes so water used in washing will drain out, it is difficult to do without raising the cab.

Using picks, screwdrives, brushes, I got it reasonably clean. There is now a space between the fittings and the frame. I won't try to repaint this area until I have to replace the hoses.










There is no good way to clean out the interior of the frame.










In my opinion this area should have either been shielded or made more accessible to make cleaning easier.

I think that at least once a year I will put it on blocks, remove the wheels, raise the cab, cover sensitive components, and pressure wash everything.


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## Aerospace Eng

I tried for a few days to get the broken bolt in the frame out that I had tried to use the bolt-buster on, but to no avail. I finally decided that if it were that stuck, I would just drill and tap it. I cut it off with an oscillating tool, filed it flush, center punched it, then drilled and tapped. If the threads come out in the future, I'll just put in a helicoil.



















I did the same thing for another bolt that had broken off in a blind hole (nut welded inside the tube from the back) in the frame for the rear plate. I used a drill that barely fit in the hole as a center drill to make sure I mostly got the bolt.


----------



## Aerospace Eng

A little bit of a digression.....

As I have been removing scale and rust, I have tried various different methods. By far the best, when I have the access, is a needle scaler followed by a 2" scotchbrite coarse pad on a die grinder. The results are good and arrive quickly. In the photo below, about 3-4 minutes total was required to clean the frame surfaces, including switching tools.










As another aside, my public service announcement for the day is to make sure you are wearing a NIOSH mask (not one of those hospital type masks) to prevent getting small particles in your lungs. The element started off white. An OK check is to put the mask on and then inhale near some opened pungent material (ammonia, acetone). If you can smell anything, the mask isn't good enough, or doesn't fit well enough.



















When I can't use a needle scaler, such as on a thin walled diesel tank, I found that the black coarse discs did a marginally better job than the scotchbrite pads on heavy scale, but not as well on removing paint or on surface corrosion. Both were way better than a wire wheel. However, I can buy the scotchbrite pads for about $0.80 in bulk, so they are more economical.










I didn't get the really heavy scale completely off the diesel tank, particularly on the bottom part that forms the front of the wheel well, but it is good enough to allow me to prime with rusty metal primer and then paint gray. This will keep the corrosion at bay until I have time to remove the tank and get it sandblasted and painted.


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## BUFF

Making some good progress, looking good Thumbs Up


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## Aerospace Eng

It's been a while since my last post regarding progress.

I first worked on the parking brake, since I already had the left front brake released to change the stud, as described above.

It is a cylinder that is spring applied and hydraulically released, and acts on the front wheel motors, which have a drum brake. In the photo below, it is between the mount pad and the lift cylinder. The spring pulls the cables to the left, and hydraulic pressure extends the ram to release them. If the engine is off, the nut at the left has to be loosened (moving the cylinder to the right) to release the parking brakes.










I removed and painted the components, and then reinstalled.

Unfortunately, I lost the pictures of the work due to an e-mail glitch.

I don't like the use of drum brakes because of the hydrostatic drive. The wheels don't freewheel because of the hydrostatic nature, so you can't spin the drums with the wheels off and judge when they start dragging. With the wheels on, you can get move them with the extra leverage.

Also, the adjustment itself is a pain (more so than typical drum brakes) because of the wheel motor design. It's all done without being able to see.

I wound up adjusting the brake drums by jacking up both front wheels, applying the service brake with a hydraulic ram until the right side locked up, and then adjusting the drum on the left until it too locked up.










Yes, the ram is bent. It's a HF hydraulic ram kit that I borrowed from a friend at the airport. The bend happened when working on the airport brooms. It is probably due to the use of an offset shoe (part of the kit) on both ends when access was limited. The guy I borrowed it from said it had happened to him on the previous kit (also HF) he had bought.

In my opinion, you shouldn't be able to break/bend a hydraulic ram when using it in the manner for which it was designed.


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## Aerospace Eng

I received back a bunch of parts I had removed and sent out for blast and paint. These included the mount for the rear deck, the rear support for the coolers and taillights, the battery box, etc. I reinstalled them, and put the air cleaner, coolant tank, etc. back on. Stainless hardware was used, with nylock nuts and no more than 2 threads protruding.


















One issue I have is that the rear plate forms a crevice when reinstalled. It should have been designed so that the top edge of the plate was below the radius on the support tube, ideally with a bevel. The sides are this way (without the bevel). I don't know why an upward facing surface was designed like this, especially because reducing the size would save some $$.

I didn't think of it when I was taking everything apart, or I would have machined it prior to taking it off and having it blasted/painted.



















The way I addressed it at the moment was to put it together loosely, then spray the gap with cosmoline and then bolt it together.

The photos also show the corrosion pitting on the light support, and the resulting painted surface. It's not the prettiest, but it should hold up.


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## Aerospace Eng

I was working on the used broom that I had bought in parallel.

The front was dinged up, as I have shown before.









I got the paint code from the manufacturer (who has been very helpful in general, so thumbs up to M-B Company).

I had some 0.090 angles made to go both inside and outside the front hood, drilled them to match the optional rubber deflector mounting holes.

After I got everything installed and pulled tight, I used a plastic mallet to reshape the original hood edge.

As an aside, getting the angles installed was painful. The steel bristles are sharp, and welding type gloves didn't give me enough dexterity to get the bolts and washers installed. ​
I then removed the angles, and painted them and the hood and reinstalled.



















Unfortunately, the paint code wasn't correct. The actual paint is more orange than the paint mixed according to the paint code. Oh well. It will work, and if I have nothing better to do in the future, I'll repaint.


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## Aerospace Eng

Last weekend, the airport (who is engaged in a road relocation project) starting having problems with dirt/mud being tracked across a state highway by their 40 ton trucks. I had previously asked the airport manager if he would want to rent the broom and he said no, it wasn't necessary, so I was just puttering along After some citizens complained (it turns out wet packed-down clay gets slippery in the rain) the manager sent out one of his guys to get some push brooms. I knew how that would work, so I put my project into high gear.

I still didn't get the air conditioning working, as fittings for the hoses are backordered, but I put the cab back down, using 316 stainless steel threaded bolts. The original bolts weren't fully threaded, but I figured the material was more important as the bolts do not see shear.










Everything was going pretty well until I tried to rotate the tank back into position. It wouldn't move. I popped the cap off the top, and put penetrating oil on it and let it sit overnight. Nothing. I heated it with the bolt-buster until the penetrating oil boiled - nothing. When I tried to move it, it just flexed the bracket.









I had painted the heat shield white while it was open.

So I took the tank off to give me better access. No dice. The liquid in the top is the penetrating oil that sat there for days.










I finally got it off with a pipe wrench and a cheater bar, pulling upward as I worked it back and forth slowly. I don't know why it moved open without a huge amount of force, and then froze, but it did.










I painted the bracket and tank. While I was there, I also painted the part of the frame rail under the tank and part of the front chassis.

The photo shows the dilemma of rust removal coatings. A large part of the surface was rust free, with other parts pitted. Rust conversion coatings won't stick to the non-corroded surface. I choose to mechanically remove as much as I can and use a good rusty metal primer that will also stick to bare metal.










I had thought about getting the tank sent out, blasted, and painted generally gray with a rhino-lining type paint on the part that forms the forward wheel well, but I didn't have the time. Next year.


















​
I reinstalled using moly grease liberally.










I did put a zerk in the bracket so that the pin/bracket can be lubed. As I have said in this and other threads, I don't know why anyone designs a rotating joint that doesn't have provisions for lube.










After I got the tank back in, I put the broom on, and made a trial run. In general it worked well. The rotation left right (left side up, right side down) wasn't as free as I would like even with lube, and may explain the tapered nature of the bristles. Currently, after the broom is angled, I stop it, set it down until the broom levels itself, then lift it up, start it, and put it down just enough to hear the bristles start to hit the pavement. There are no guide wheels as on the large brooms.


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## BUFF

I've added a lot of grease zerks to things that should have had them..... Stupid Engineers.....:laugh:


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## Defcon 5

Looks Great....Are you planning on installing guide wheels?....This isn't a bad idea...But I would spring load the casters and mount them behind the broom


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## Aerospace Eng

After the trial run was done, I checked out one of the airport guys on the machine, and figured it was good to go. The airport manager agreed to a rental rate ($35 per hour dry, based on the hobbs).

The next morning, however, I noticed a small drip.










I traced it to the return line from the front of the chassis into the oil cooler. Since the old clamp looked to be in poor condition, I put in another clamp.



















I had to go on a trip for my day job, so I figured I would deal with it when I got back. The next morning one of the airport guys called and said that while the broom worked great, the drip got worse. They tore into it, and found that the oil cooler fitting had a leak, due to a hole made by corrosion.

They took it to be welded, but the guy didn't have a means to pressure test it, and when they reinstalled it, it still leaked. The first photo below is after the initial weld attempt, as it shows the overall layout better. The black oval is where the leak is. The next two show the hole.



























I got back from my trip, and yanked the cooler out. It kind of sucked removing a bunch of stuff I had put back on after having removing it and having it painted (and loosing another 5 gallons of hydraulic fluid). At least the bolts weren't corroded to the point of breaking off or having to be cut this time.


























While I was removing the cooler, the airport tried to move dirt, but had to shut down due to the dirt/mud on the road they were crossing. This made the broom very important. I took it back to the welder, who re-welded and then took it to a radiator shop to be pressure tested. It held this time, although the outside of the tube is kind of ugly looking.


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## Aerospace Eng

Defcon 5 said:


> View attachment 182559
> Looks Great....Are you planning on installing guide wheels?....This isn't a bad idea...But I would spring load the casters and mount them behind the broom


If I can figure out a good way to do it, I will. There isn't a lot of room behind due to the angling cylinder. I wouldn't put them in front, particularly for snow removal. You want the wheels to ride in the swept area.


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## the Suburbanite

I've got to give you credit, Mr. Aerospace Eng. You are thorough. Good luck with the potential rental. 
I know my Warden would be much happier with my collection if it was producing income.


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## Aerospace Eng

While I had the cooler removed, I removed a bunch of the hoses that ran the hydraulic motors for the fans and had new ones made at the local parker store. I wanted to go with stainless, but that increased the price of the hose by $50-$75 per fitting, basically doubling or tripling the cost. Since the machine will not be seeing salt anymore, I just went with regular fittings.










A closer inspection of the airbox revealed that it was structurally unsound and poorly designed. The fan ring formed a lake at the bottom of the airbox, with expected results. The scaling was bad enough that it changed the shape of the shroud and was eating away at the blades.



















I will design and fabricate an airbox out of aluminum in the future to minimize galvanic corrosion, but the machine needed to be put back into service.

A look at the cooler itself revealed that there was salt still sitting in crevices between the mounting angles and the cooler body. In the photo below, I have marked the welded area with an oval. The salt is visible between the bracket and body.



























I removed it as best I could, using a putty knife and washing with water. The photo below shows some of the salt removed.










You can't access this area for washing without removing the airbox, so this is also poor design, in my opinion. For those of you that salt, think about where salt is going to collect when you buy a machine, and whether a washdown will get it out. I don't know if the Belos is better or worse than other machines in this respect.

The airport guys and I fabricated up an emergency airbox out of scrap angles we had (no-one wants to put their name on it so I'm dragging them under the bus with me) As noted above, I will design and build a proper plenum with a fan inlet ring in the future. The emergency airbox will work, especially with some foil tape in the corners.

















​
I have concluded that salt sucks.

I think that this experience has convinced me that in a salt environment, hydraulic power works well. If the fan motors had been electric, I don't think there is any way they survive. The hydraulics are sealed except for the tank breather (which is filtered), and although the fittings had surface corrosion, nothing leaked, and everything still worked.


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## FredG

Glad to see it is making a little revenue. $35.00 is okay without a operator or fuel. Here in NY if your not a farmer in the country they are very strict on contractors keeping roads clean. I don't do meter hours anymore.


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## Aerospace Eng

By last night (the second day out of service, the machine was back operational. Once the air conditioning hoses get made and I make the AC system installed, life should be good.
















The broom is worn significantly more on one side, but there isn't anything I can do about it, other than to make sure it wears evenly from here on out until I have to replace the bristles.









I forgot to mention previously... I also installed a pintle hitch on the back. The factory ball hitch was a 2-bolt option, but I liked 4 bolts and a pintle/ball combination better. I installed it so that the bottom holes in the hitch used the existing holes in the plate (better to be lucky than good), and drilled two new holes for the upper mounting bolts.


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## Aerospace Eng

the Suburbanite said:


> I've got to give you credit, Mr. Aerospace Eng. You are thorough. Good luck with the potential rental.
> I know my Warden would be much happier with my collection if it was producing income.


If my collection didn't, I couldn't keep it, let alone expand it.


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## Aerospace Eng

FredG said:


> Glad to see it is making a little revenue. $35.00 is okay without a operator or fuel. Here in NY if your not a farmer in the country they are very strict on contractors keeping roads clean. I don't do meter hours anymore.


It's a pretty good deal for both. I expect them to use it 3 hours per day when they are moving dirt, so 15 hours a week. That works out to a 10% return per month on what I have into it.

I priced it by adding up the cost of a skidsteer and broom from United rentals and/or Sunbelt for a week and dividing by 40. While that may seem like I am leaving money on the table compared to a weekly rate, the airport and I have a good relationship (I let them borrow stuff and will help them out when needed and vice versa).

They know I am helping them out with a good price, and making sure their trucks and excavators aren't idle, and I know they won't just start the machine and rev it up. They will let it warm up properly even though the meter is ticking.

I value the relationship so I'm not going to try and squeeze every last dime out of it. They will fix what they can themselves on machines they are using, rather than just calling and letting me know something is wrong. I'm not a rental center and don't have spares, after all. They ripped out, had the cooler welded, reinstalled it themselves, and added 5 gallons of the appropriate hydraulic fluid the first time. (all at no charge to me).

They also helped out with the fabrication of the emergency airbox, in addition to scrounging scrap, etc. The only $$ I am out for the repair is the second welding of the cooler and the $$ for the hoses. (and another 5 gallons of hydraulic fluid)


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## Aerospace Eng

I got a price for a new cooler.....$3611.82

I think I could have a custom one made for less.

Glad I got if welded for $125

Most of the time the parts prices have been fine, but sometimes they ludicrous, as in this instance and over 2K for an AC compressor that is the same as a Bobcat one I was able to get for $230.


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## Aerospace Eng

Finally got the air conditioning fixed. It took a few months to get in a backordered fitting for one of the hoses. The cab is much more pleasant, which is important because there are no openable windows.


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## Aerospace Eng

For the last few weeks, I have been fighting with the used M-B broom I purchased for the Belos. The airport has been using it to sweep the road crossing, and I am using it as test before winter.

The fundamental problem is that there is an oscillation in/bushing where the front three point hitch attach meets up with the broom frame.

The problem is that while this moved easily without any load on the broom, it would not move easily once the broom was picked up. It wouldn't move at all until the broom was angled, and then the broom would go left side or right side down and stay there, so that only half or so was sweeping.










Since the broom oscillation occurs using two plain bushings, my hypothesis was that the load was binding up the bushings. I disassembled the mounting plate to examine the bearings, scraped the dirt/grease mixture off the plate, and reassembled with a liberal amount of moly grease.




























The broom oscillated about the lower pin. The upper pins have shoulders that go into slots in the mounting plate and simply serve to limit the motion.










After cleaning, I reassembled with a liberal amount of Moly grease...

I tightened the nut to try and put more load on the plate and reduce the binding. It made it easier to move when the broom had weight, but harder when there wasn't weight on it. However, it still didn't solve the broom pattern issue.

My next attempt involved adding some springs to both reduce the bending moment on the pin and reduce the vertical load, and loosening the nut to where the oscillation was easy with no weight on the pin. This worked well, and now with the broom lifted and straight, I can cause it to oscillate with light hand pressure on the ends of the broom.



















This worked well in some sense, in that with the broom straight, it evened out as it was let down, and produced a nice pattern.










However, for sweeping I want the broom angled, and this exposes a significant flaw in the design, the overall design of the oscillation. Since the oscillation occurs before the articulation, when you pivot the broom to the left or right, the weight of the broom head is no longer in line with the oscillation pin, and the broom adds pressure to the left or right.

If you lower the broom to the pavement, by the time the pressure on the lower part of the brush levels out the broom, there is too much pressure on the broom, and the pattern is wrong and will wear out the broom rapidly.










If the broom is picked up, to where there isn't too much pressure, the weight takes it down on that side.

I spent a bunch of time on the internet, and most skidsteer or three-point type brooms do not have oscillation mechanisms. This would eliminate the problem I face, but would create a coning of the broom if the pivot pin is not kept exactly vertical (someone tilts the skidsteer mount or mis-adjusts the top link).

The way that this should be designed is to have the oscillation mechanism closer to the broom than the pivot mechanism. Then the weight of the broom would not create a moment about the oscillation pin.

For current use, it isn't too bad if the broom is lowered while straight and running, then pivoted.

My current plan is to weld some trailer jacks and sprung pneumatic casters on the broom frame, so that it is somewhat like my large brooms. and I can keep the pattern exactly the right size (2-4" and even across.)

I'm going to leave the springs in place, as they will still help with reducing the load on the pivot.


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## FredG

Aerospace Eng said:


> For the last few weeks, I have been fighting with the used M-B broom I purchased for the Belos. The airport has been using it to sweep the road crossing, and I am using it as test before winter.
> 
> The fundamental problem is that there is an oscillation in/bushing where the front three point hitch attach meets up with the broom frame.
> 
> The problem is that while this moved easily without any load on the broom, it would not move easily once the broom was picked up. It wouldn't move at all until the broom was angled, and then the broom would go left side or right side down and stay there, so that only half or so was sweeping.
> 
> View attachment 183298
> 
> 
> Since the broom oscillation occurs using two plain bushings, my hypothesis was that the load was binding up the bushings. I disassembled the mounting plate to examine the bearings, scraped the dirt/grease mixture off the plate, and reassembled with a liberal amount of moly grease.
> 
> View attachment 183291
> 
> 
> View attachment 183295
> 
> 
> View attachment 183292
> 
> 
> The broom oscillated about the lower pin. The upper pins have shoulders that go into slots in the mounting plate and simply serve to limit the motion.
> 
> View attachment 183294
> 
> 
> After cleaning, I reassembled with a liberal amount of Moly grease...
> 
> I tightened the nut to try and put more load on the plate and reduce the binding. It made it easier to move when the broom had weight, but harder when there wasn't weight on it. However, it still didn't solve the broom pattern issue.
> 
> My next attempt involved adding some springs to both reduce the bending moment on the pin and reduce the vertical load, and loosening the nut to where the oscillation was easy with no weight on the pin. This worked well, and now with the broom lifted and straight, I can cause it to oscillate with light hand pressure on the ends of the broom.
> 
> View attachment 183296
> 
> 
> View attachment 183297
> 
> 
> This worked well in some sense, in that with the broom straight, it evened out as it was let down, and produced a nice pattern.
> 
> View attachment 183302
> 
> 
> However, for sweeping I want the broom angled, and this exposes a significant flaw in the design, the overall design of the oscillation. Since the oscillation occurs before the articulation, when you pivot the broom to the left or right, the weight of the broom head is no longer in line with the oscillation pin, and the broom adds pressure to the left or right.
> 
> If you lower the broom to the pavement, by the time the pressure on the lower part of the brush levels out the broom, there is too much pressure on the broom, and the pattern is wrong and will wear out the broom rapidly.
> 
> View attachment 183301
> 
> 
> If the broom is picked up, to where there isn't too much pressure, the weight takes it down on that side.
> 
> I spent a bunch of time on the internet, and most skidsteer or three-point type brooms do not have oscillation mechanisms. This would eliminate the problem I face, but would create a coning of the broom if the pivot pin is not kept exactly vertical (someone tilts the skidsteer mount or mis-adjusts the top link).
> 
> The way that this should be designed is to have the oscillation mechanism closer to the broom than the pivot mechanism. Then the weight of the broom would not create a moment about the oscillation pin.
> 
> For current use, it isn't too bad if the broom is lowered while straight and running, then pivoted.
> 
> My current plan is to weld some trailer jacks and sprung pneumatic casters on the broom frame, so that it is somewhat like my large brooms. and I can keep the pattern exactly the right size (2-4" and even across.)
> 
> I'm going to leave the springs in place, as they will still help with reducing the load on the pivot.
> 
> View attachment 183293


 Kinda over my head, Glad your figuring it out. How did the rental go? Does the airport have more work for it?


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## Aerospace Eng

The fundamental issue is that when the broom is angled to one side, the weight of the head (about 600+ lb) is more than a foot off the centerline of the oscillation pin, so it flops to one side. If the bristles were stiff enough, so that you could just let the weight of the broom head sit on the bristles, everything would even itself out against the road. However, the brush can only take a small fraction of the weight of the head before the bristles are too compressed. 

I don't have enough experience yet to see if it will work out, but reading literature indicates that with a 2"-4" pattern, the bristles bend and then flick forward, giving a good sweep. The bristles should last about 200 hours. 

With more down pressure, such as would create a 6" pattern, the broom will "mop" rather than sweep, and you will be lucky to get 50 hours out of a set of bristles. 

The airport is renting it whenever they have trucks crossing the road. About 40 hours so far. They will keep needing it until the snow flies, and then again next summer, so I'm pretty happy with it as an investment.

The bristles are about 1/2 gone.

I bought a new set of bristles, which are straight, but mixed poly/steel on the same bristle. It's what M-B recommended. 

United Rotary Brush, from whom I bought the wafers for my large brooms recommended alternating steel and poly convoluted wafers. I'll try that next and see which one I like better.


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## the Suburbanite

Shot in the dark, but would it be practical to reconfigure the pivot point to allow the head to cant slightly when angled?


----------



## Aerospace Eng

the Suburbanite said:


> Shot in the dark, but would it be practical to reconfigure the pivot point to allow the head to cant slightly when angled?


That's actually a good thought, but when I tried it yesterday, it didn't work.

The idea is that normally if your pivot point is not vertical, but leaning forward, then the side of the broom that moves back is driven upward and vice versa. The weight of the broom head will be in opposition, but the rotation by the weight will stretch the springs I added. In a perfect world, they would exactly balance.

They didn't, even with a 10 degree cant to the pivot, so I would need to add more or stiffer springs. The problem then is that with stiffer springs or a severe cant (say 30 degrees) it makes it so the broom won't oscillate when straight ahead.

I also thought about adding a hydraulic cylinder, height sensors on the ends, and a feedback control (too complicated); springs and cables or struts attached to the pivot cylinder that would apply a torque to the broom when the cylinder extended or retracted (too hokey and difficult to get exactly right); or a weight to the broom behind the pivot to counteract the weight of the broom (nice and simple, but it would take too much weight with the geometry).


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## Mr.Markus

Would increasing the limit groves alleviate this coupled with adding casters where your sweeper stands are located?


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## Mr.Markus

Edit:If there is enough movement in the groves then the castor's would act as a means to use the weight to push up and level out the other side.


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## Aerospace Eng

Mr.Markus said:


> Would increasing the limit groves alleviate this coupled with adding casters where your sweeper stands are located?


I think the limits are OK where they are, as I'm not running out of oscillation travel.

My plan for the casters is to have some plates plasma cut by a local steel supplier and weld them onto the pipe that forms the back part of the frame, and then weld square jacks to them. I want the casters to be in the swept path. If I put them up front, they will ride up on the snow, throwing the broom height off and/or pack down the snow. Since airports are a no-salt area, I couldn't get rid of the tracks.

Do you have similar issues with your broom(s)?


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## Mr.Markus

I don't do snow with the brooms, but I do run into areas where there isn't enough travel over the 5ft or front to back on slopes. There are adjustments that can be made to compensate but too much and bristle wear is the result.


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## Aerospace Eng

Mr.Markus said:


> I don't do snow with the brooms, but I do run into areas where there isn't enough travel over the 5ft or front to back on slopes. There are adjustments that can be made to compensate but too much and bristle wear is the result.


Does your broom oscillate at all, or just angle, basically assuming that the tractor wheels are close enough to the broom so it doesn't need to move separately from the chassis.

In my reading, most of the skidsteer and tractor brooms out there don't oscillate. The bigger loader brooms do.


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## Mr.Markus

They do oscillate, on one bolt. There are no limiter bolts though, definitely a lighter design to mine. Hard to design something I guess that pushes against itself all the time it’s working..


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## Mr.Markus

Looking at your pictures again and thinking when I had mine apart...the oscillation on mine are closer to the broom.


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## the Suburbanite

So this is a strictly a design issue? Not a wear/fatigue problem?


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## Aerospace Eng

the Suburbanite said:


> So this is a strictly a design issue? Not a wear/fatigue problem?


The fundamental issue is design.

There are two separate issues. The stiction and the oscillation caused by the broom head weight.

The stiction is due to the use of a plain bearing and pin when a significant side load has to be present. A set of tapered rollers, like old style wheel bearings, would be much better. This was basically alleviated through the addition of springs. However, this highlighted the weight issue even more.

In my opinion, the broom flopping due to weight is a design flaw with the M-B RHT series broom. Although the broom is generally mounted to a three point hitch on the back of a tractor, the same issue would apply.

Because oscillation (left side down/right side up or vice versa) is allowed, and because the pivot is a significant distance behind the broom head, the weight of the broom head causes a rotation about the oscillation pin whenever the broom head is not perfectly straight, and usually the broom is angled for sweeping. This torque due to weight can only be counteracted by an opposing torque about the pin. When the broom is angled, there are more bristles on the heavy side opposing the weight, but the torque is dependent on the broom pressure (in the air it is zero). Only if the full weight of the broom head is supported by the bristles would the pivot location be irrelevant, but the bristles are not stiff enough to accomplish this.

At the ideal 2-4" pattern, there is almost no pressure on the bristles, and so nothing to counteract the weight. The broom rotates, putting more pressure on the outer bristles until the torque is zero(weight*distance from oscillation pin = integral of bristle pressure). This produces the cone shaped pattern depicted above.

Although I think a broom that oscillates has an inherent advantage over one that doesn't, it either needs to have casters or it needs to have the oscillation mechanism be located between the angle pivot and the broom head. Otherwise, you are better off just locking the broom oscillation out (or buying a broom without it).


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## the Suburbanite

Thanks for the detailed response. I either didn't realize (or didn't remember) that the broom was originally for a tractor. Is the broom similar to a plow in that you would want the broom frame parallel to the ground (thus making the pivot pin vertical) when operating? Would adjusting the pitch or plane of the broom and frame via the top link make a difference in the sweep/contact pattern?


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## Aerospace Eng

the Suburbanite said:


> Thanks for the detailed response. I either didn't realize (or didn't remember) that the broom was originally for a tractor. Is the broom similar to a plow in that you would want the broom frame parallel to the ground (thus making the pivot pin vertical) when operating? Would adjusting the pitch or plane of the broom and frame via the top link make a difference in the sweep/contact pattern?


With brooms, in general, you absolutely want the angle pivot to be perfectly vertical. Otherwise, the broom head will tend to wear very differently. If the angle pivot is canted forward, and the broom is angled to the right, then the right side will lift, and the left side will dive, wearing the left side more quickly and into a cone shape. If the angle pivot were canted backward, the opposite would happen. The same thing would happen with plow cutting edges.

Once I welded the D-rings on and attached the springs (Tractor Supply's version of Western trip springs), I deliberately canted the pin forward, so that the heavy side (due to the offset of the broom weight from the oscillation pin axis) would be lifted by the action of angling.

In the above example, with the broom angled to the right, but held level, this causes the right side spring to be stretched, counteracting the torque. To exactly balance, the torques would be equal.... (weight*distance the broom head center of mass is ahead of angle pivot*sin(broomangle))=(stiffness of the spring*2(two springs)*D ring distance from centerline*sin(pivot angle cant)).

However, even with the pin 10 degrees or so in front of vertical, the weight is too much and the broom still "flops" when angled. It might work with stiffer springs, but getting it exactly right with commercially available springs would be difficult, and custom springs start to get expensive. Then you would still have the problem of keeping the right height of the broom as it wears.

I decided that adding casters would be the simplest way to solve the problem, and I am a great believer in KISS.

The front lift mechanism of the Belos is basically a Cat II three point hitch, but with a short top link (12" or so) due to the presence of the cab. So when M-B adapted a broom to go on the Belos, they just took their RHT broom and slightly modified the three-point plate.

However, unlike a Holder or Trackless, there is no mechanical PTO. The power is hydraulic, like a high-flow skidsteer, with up to 30 GPM at 3000 psi to the front or rear "PTO" outlets. If you want a 540 RPM mechanical PTO on the back to run standard tractor implements, you basically wind up with a hydraulic motor with the proper SAE spline, and run it at a given displacement. I actually think the all-hydraulic setup is better, as it is a sealed system and even with the corrosion I have been fighting due to it's use as a sidewalk machine by Ticonderoga, everything still works.


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## the Suburbanite

Big fan of the KISS principle as well, and frustrated (for you) that the machine seemingly has such a glaring design flaw out of the box. Having to manually adjust the cant forward/backward/vertical(in anticipation of counteracting the "flop") for the direction or angle of use would get old quick, if even feasable. 

Sounds like you have looked at all the angles, no pun intended. 

Would casters need to be adjusted depending on angle of head to ensure a good pattern? I'll probably spend some time looking at pictures of the airport sweepers today. Thanks for the interesting read on the Belos.


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## Aerospace Eng

To be clear, if I could have got the cant and stiffness correct, it wouldn't have to be adjusted each time. Hypothetically, if I could get it to balance the weight at maximum angle, and it would of course balance at zero angle, then it would probably be OK in between. 

However, the more spring pressure you add, the harder it is for the broom to oscillate when un-angled, which sort of defeats the purpose. If the cant is too great, trying to increase the spring deflection instead of stiffness, you run out of oscillation travel (stop bolts hit the end of the slots) before the broom is level, and the weird angles (think 45 degree cant) can cause other issues. While theoretically possible, it seemed like it would be too difficult to get correct.

Casters would not need to be adjusted for different angles. I would set it up with the angle pivot vertical (or as close as I could get it), and then adjust the casters to give the proper pattern. The casters would take varying load as it were angled, but they wouldn't need to be adjusted for angle.

Since I don't have a tube within a tube and a cylinder to raise and lower the broom, my plan is to put the casters on trailer jacks, and just adjust them as the bristles wear. 

I ordered the casters today (unsprung but with a 10" pneumatic tire) from Hamilton Caster, and went by a steel supply house to have them cut out the mounts for the jacks so I can get them welded to the broom. I will order the trailer jacks shortly.


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## the Suburbanite

You get this sucker dialed in?


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## Aerospace Eng

the Suburbanite said:


> You get this sucker dialed in?


I got the broom dialed in. Yesterday, in fact.

As I indicated above, I added some casters to the broom.

It took a while longer than I had hoped, first due to interference from my day job, and then because the air drawbar on my Bridgeport broke a roll pin and I had to repair that so I could clean up the plasma cut semi-circles in the mounting plates so they fit perfectly.

I would have liked the jacks to be further inboard, but the hydraulic angle cylinder mount defined the position. Where they are now, the casters are right at the outer edge of the swept path when the broom is angled fully.


















The mounting plate for the caster is offset to move the caster inboard as far as possible. It also helps in that when the broom is angled, the contact patch winds up almost directly under the jack on the heavy side.










The jacks were kept about 1/2" away from the tube so I wouldn't trap moisture or dirt in the area.









I took the broom out and tried it, and it works great. I can dial the pattern, and it keeps it as the broom is angled back and forth. Operation has become a no-brainer. Lower the broom until the chain I have in place of a top-link just starts to go slack, and start driving.


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## Aerospace Eng

I thought I was in great shape, and figured I would prime and paint today. However, the guy helping me noticed a few drops of hydraulic fluid coming out from between the front wheels when I was outside. It was weird, as the machine had been parked in the same position for a week, and there were no signs of fluid from that.

We jacked up the cab and spent about two hours trying to see where it was coming from, using mirrors, borescopes, etc. to no avail.

We determined that the plate holding the valve body was filling with hydraulic fluid, but couldn't pinpoint a source. I jacked up one wheel and put it on some square tubing, so that the plate would drain, and figured we would wipe it down today and then determine the source.​


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## Aerospace Eng

I went in this morning, and found a disaster.....


















It was pretty obvious how much had leaked out....all of it. Oh well, what's another 15 gallons of hydraulic fluid.










Still couldn't see a leak source from either the top or bottom....

















As an aside, this bottom plate design sucks. Because of the lips and lack of drainage, it was basically full of a mixture of dirt, organic material, and hydraulic fluid. Even if you are trying to wash with the cab up, it is difficult to clean. When I'm putting it back together I'll add some 1" drainage holes.

There was nothing for it but to remove the left side lift cylinder that was over the block and start removing hydraulic hoses and electrical connectors.



















After 6 hours of effort by me and my friend, we got the valve body out The good news is, we didn't waste our time, as, indeed, the valve body was leaking out of one of the electrical actuators. The bad news is that the valve body is leaking out of one of the electrical actuators. If I have to replace the whole valve section, it will be expensive. Even the electric actuator by itself is likely to be several hundred dollars.

















The amount of dirt and crud trapped in the plate is shown below (this is after I removed about a shoebox full while disconnecting hoses and trying to find the mounting bolts. You can see the imprint of the four directional valves in the dirt/hydraulic fluid mixture.









This coming week, I'll try to clean it up and get the valve body to a repair facility, clean out the mounting plate, drill a hole or two, and paint the plate so that I will be ready to remount the valve body. I'll also scoop up the 50 lb of oil-sorb used so far (along with a few square yards of pig mat) and put some more down.


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## Mr.Markus

That sucks, at least it wasn't in use.
The other night I was driving home in the dark and I came across a fresh oil streak in my Lane, it continued on for about 3 concessions. Really big oil slicks at stop signs where they stopped. It turned in to a farm Lane where a JD combine was setting up to harvest overnight. I stopped and let them know they were leaking. They were very unaware and appreciative, made some new friends.


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## Aerospace Eng

I'm sure they were. It may be a pain in the butt and expensive to fix a hydraulic leak if it is not a simple hose failure, but it is not nearly as bad as running completely out and scrapping your pump while throwing metal shavings through the system.


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## Aerospace Eng

The valve block is a Danfoss PVG32 series.

I tried to find a module to replace the leaking one. I was told by a Danfoss distributor that it was a good part number, but they couldn't get it in the U.S. I don't understand this, because it's not like there is a different voltage for mobile equipment, and the PVG32 line is common in the states.

The parts book did not break down the valve block, and the only dealer for the Belos/Karcher units in the US (Minnesota Equipment) indicated that they could not get any block components and a new block was $14K.

So I dropped the block off at the local hydraulic shop, RJ in Butler, PA. They are pretty good. I was hoping it was just an O-Ring between the actuator and the valve body. 

Turns out it wasn't. The actuator body was corroded due to the salt/dirt mixture that was sitting underneath it (see pictures in prior posts), and it eventually reached the grooves for the seals between the actuator and the body.

They can get the actuator modules ($1K apiece, which is a decent price) but it is a 6-8 week lead time. Depending on how many other modules are compromised, I could be looking at anywhere from $1K to $7K. Still better than $14K. 

I don't know why this was designed with a natural trap for salt/dirt/debris, particularly when it also mounts a very expensive component. I now know to be diligent is washing out this nearly inaccessible area, which Ticonderoga clearly didn't do. 

I think this is on the head of the designer, however. Everything on a mobile piece of equipment should be designed in a way to both minimize the accumulation of and shed dirt/debris/moisture, as well as making it easy to wash off fines, etc. While I recognize that compromises must be made, putting the plate on a slight angle without an upturned edge on the downhill side, would have allowed the dirt, etc. to fall or be washed out more easily. The valve block wouldn't care about a 10 degree incline.


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## Aerospace Eng

So, 3 1/2 months and $8612 later (including tax), I have my valve block back.









It needed new electric actuators for the 4 valves at the top, and new manual actuators for all 6 valves (they don't have levers, but really are there just to close off the valve. I suppose they could be used for troubleshooting the hydraulic system as you can move the valve independently of the electrical signal.


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## BUFF

Damm…...


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## WIPensFan

This whole project blows my mind. So far from anything I’m capable of. Kudos to you AE! This is why I like new stuff and take care of it from the start. Valve body turned out awesome...pricey for sure. Kind of important though.


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## zlssefi

8600 bucks for such an important part on a small machine....seems to make my 6k planetary job on my 50k lb wheel loader seem like peanuts!


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## Aerospace Eng

It is a lot compared to what I paid for it. However (and I don't want to start another new v used debate - see the new truck v old truck thread for that) it's still small compared to the cost of a newer machine.

New, what I have, with the blower and broom, would be $150K or so. I'm still way ahead of the game. If I had needed the machine every day to make money with, that would be a different story. 

What is annoying to me is the poor design choice that put such an integral part of the machine in an area that couldn't effectively be cleaned even with the cab up, and not at all with the cab down. The damage was purely due to corrosion. 

I like the overall design concepts for the machine, and they made some smart choices, like attaching the joystick to the seat. This was a poor choice (they didn't even paint the valve block).

With a little bit more thought given to cleaning/designing it so it didn't sit in a channel with no effective drainage, it could have been in the same location, as well protected from mechanical damage, and I wouldn't have had this issue.


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## Aerospace Eng

So, 14 Months later and it is alive.....I think.

By the time the valve block came back I had missed the winter anyway, and I knew the block was going to be a pain in the butt, so I waited until I installed my Nussbaum 5000 kg lift.

I cut holes in the bottom plate for drainage. I will put a close off plate(s) on there, but not until I am sure all the leaks are gone.










It looked better with paint.










Got it up on the lift and put in the valve block....

One of the problems that I had was the long time between taking it apart and putting it back together made me forget some things. Like the accumulator cannot go back in with the valve block in.

Valve block came out again.

Put in the accumulator. However, the valve block won't go in with the accumulator in. I pulled out the accumulator, put the valve block in halfway, put in the accumulator loosely, gradually work both into position.

Then, as I was connecting up the hydraulic lines, I realized that the hydraulics shop had forgotten to put in the 90 degree adapted fitting on the left side (bottom of the above picture) of the valve block. There wasn't enough clearance between the fitting and the frame to get a socket in, so the valve block (and accumulator) came out again.

After hooking up the hydraulic lines, I realized that the new actuators for the "PTO" valves - on the bottom in the below picture, now had a 6 pin connector, whereas the old ones were a 4 pin connector.










I called the hydraulics shop. They said - the 4 pins weren't available so we had to go with the 6 pin. I'm not sure that that is correct, but I wasn't taking the valve block out again unless I had to.

I asked "What's the difference?" "We don't know," was the response.

I did some research online, but couldn't get Danfoss to talk to me, as I wasn't a distributor. I was eventually able to determine that the two actuators are similar, except that the 6 pin has a float position. Completely useless on a valve for a hydraulic motor since the spool connects the two lines in neutral anyway.

I asked another question.... "Does the float actuator have the same travel as the non-float actuator? In other words, will I have the same range of motion on the spool itself?" After 2 weeks, I got a response..."They will work." However, now I had to go find and source a connector housing and de-pinning tool. Readily available, but hard to find someone that would sell me less than 100. Fortunately, it turns out that Saab uses the 6 pin housing, and I was able to buy just 5.










While I was waiting for the housing and de-pinning tool (about two months ago) I got it the hydraulics all reconnected, and fired it up. The steering was stiff. After a few minutes, there was a puddle on the floor. Unfortunately, it appeared to be coming from a fitting that was buried under a bunch of other hoses.

I procrastinated, since I knew that with everything full of fluid again, when I took off the lines to get to the suspected loose fitting, I was both going to clean the floor with AND take a shower in hydraulic fluid. But I'm going to need the broom this winter and couldn't put it off any longer, so I started attacking it this past weekend.

Taking off the line to the accumulator was particularly fun, since it produced a nice fan spray until it was discharged. One of the lines I had to take off was the return line from the broom motor to the return manifold. 1 1/2" line, straight through the cooler to the reservoir with no shutoff.










I plasma cut a 1-5/8 socket to get on the fitting, and was able to get about 1/16 of a turn on it. I also repinned the connectors to fit the 6 pin actuator.

I investigated the steering and found that two lines had been crossed when I got it back together (I had connected the pressure line to the steering block to the right turn port and vice versa). I fixed that. I put everything back together, and filled it with hydraulic fluid again. I put down the cab so I could operate it more easily, and fired it up. The steering was fixed. Everything seemed to be going well.

I was proud of myself for being able to get everything done without disconnecting any more hydraulics, given the limited access.










Now that I had the actuators repinned, it was time to try them out. At an idle, I started to increase the PTO value (digital proportional valve). The broom moved about 1/4 turn and stopped. The engine started to bog down. I turned off the "PTO." There was a puddle underneath. I raised the cab and looked around. There was fluid on the top of the valve block.










Remember that return line I had moved out of the way? I had forgotten to put it back together. The cap is in the middle, and the line with the plug is out of the way on the right. Since I had only spun the cap and plug on/in finger tight, fluid was everywhere.










The space is too tight to hook up the line easily, so I also had to undo the white-striped line what is basically a U-bend that also goes to the valve block drain. Why Belos did it with a flex hose, I don't understand, since there is no way to make it work and stay within the minimum bend radius of the hose.

Another mopping of the floor with hydraulic fluid.

I got it back together last night, and ran it. The broom worked fine. Now I just have to wait and see if I have any leaks. I can't tell at the moment since the hydraulic fluid is still dripping from everywhere. I'm not worried about corrosion at the front at the moment.


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## Aerospace Eng

As a subplot....

When I had the machine sitting there in the hangar over the summer, I came in one day and there was coolant on the floor and the reservoir tank was empty.

I refilled the coolant before I started it up the first time, but couldn't find any leak - and the reservoir stayed full.

Finally, yesterday, I got it hot enough that I found the leak.....










The hose clamp coming out of the radiator had corroded through. At least this was a simple fix.










Did I ever mention I hate salt?

At any rate, it's back together. We'll see if I have any residual hydraulic leaks. After leaving it to drip, I'll hot-water pressure wash the valve block area under the cab and then run it for a few hours.










I'm going to leave the side panels off the back until I run it a bit so I can inspect for any more coolant leaks.


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## Aerospace Eng

IT LIVES!!

When I started it the next day, I had a puddle that started after a minute of running, and was about 1 foot wide after a minute.

Lifted up the cab again. I looked all over the place, but with everything so wet, couldn't find it. Ran the machine at idle, no leak. Ran it at a higher speed, the puddle started to grow again.

Washed with mineral spirits and brake cleaner, and finally narrowed it down the the same region where the fitting was loose (under the u-bend hose.

It turned out to be an O-ring under a plug that was extruded in one area, and would seep when the broom was running with some resistance.










A new O-ring fixed that problem. The band clamp fixed the coolant leak.

Now, the only known leak is from the broom motor, but it is at a drop every few minutes, so I'll worry about that after the winter.

I noticed that the beacon was out. It's an interesting setup, because the beacon itself has internal contacts for power.




























I took the beacon apart, and it worked.

I cut off the connectors that attached the wire leads to the power from the switch, and found that there was power coming from the switch, and there was a good ground.

I tested further, and found there was no continuity to the internal contacts on the mounting post. However, I also noticed that the wires were loose. It turns out that inside the mounting post are spade connectors. I used a small flat bladed screwdriver to push them back in so they were firmly seated, and then potted their hole. I don't know why they weren't potted to begin with.

The wires were oxidized slightly, so I cut them back until I had good copper and then recrimped with sealed connectors.










Another problem solved...










I actually like the way the mount is held on with an upper dimple, and a lower pivot bolt with bellevilles. If the beacon hits something, it just gets knocked down, rather than torn off.

Time to take the broom outside and see if the casters actually work....










They do.

The broom is coned from the flopping moment detailed in earlier posts, so it is only cleaning on the left side, and the ploy was worn more than the steel, so it is a bit striped, but when I went one way with the broom left, and came back with the broom right, the pattern stayed constant.... The casters work.










One issue I have is that due to the way the swing actuator is hooked up to the broom, forcing the casters to be most of the way outboard, when the broom is fully angled the caster on the forward side is outside of the swept path, as the left pass in the above photo shows. In addition, with the wide tires installed, the outer edge of the tire on the forward side is at the edge of the swept area.

While not ideal, in practice it won't matter because if I am sweeping with overlap, the caster and tire on the forward side are running on already swept ground.


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## Mark Oomkes

Same lights or setup is used on Deere tractors.


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## Aerospace Eng

We finally got a little snow, and I was able to try the broom out a bit more. I was interested to see how it did in a wet snow.

It did well clearing near the hangars, in conjunction with a wheeled snowplow shovel.









Basically broom to within a foot of the hangars, use the snowplow shovel to get as close to the doors as possible, then broom again.










The casters have made a huge difference in performance.

I will have to go back from the spring/limiting chain mechanism I had put in in place to a traditional top link. I had thought it would eliminate the chance of too much down pressure on the bristles. However, if the snow gets really heavy, the broom can tilt back on the casters with the lift arms in float, riding on top instead of getting to the pavement. This reduced my brooming speed.


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## BUFF

How long before you put hyd cylinders on the casters so you can adjust from the cab?


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## Mark Oomkes

Aerospace Eng said:


> However, if the snow gets really heavy, the broom can tilt back on the casters with the lift arms in float,


Ah...the good ole fallacy of using a pusher\plow on a loader or skidsteer in float. How many times that has been debated.


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## Defcon 5

I bet someone in Ohio could have done it cheaper


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## Aerospace Eng

BUFF said:


> How long before you put hyd cylinders on the casters so you can adjust from the cab?


I'm not going to. The purpose for the casters is to keep the bristles from having too much weight on them. You want them compressed about 1/8 inch, so they get pulled back and flick. Too much compression and you mop (no flick, poor performance, and up to 5x broom wear).

The casters get adjusted for broom wear, not for operational conditions.


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## Aerospace Eng

Mark Oomkes said:


> Ah...the good ole fallacy of using a pusher\plow on a loader or skidsteer in float. How many times that has been debated.


I have no idea...

I would tend to use float for the broom, since if I don't and go over a dip, I will be lifting the front wheels and putting the weight of the machine on the casters (no suspension).

For my large pusher, I also use float, but it weighs about 6000 lb. Although there are no curbs, if I did hit something, I would want to have the pusher lift, rather than try to lift the truck.


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## Mr.Markus

BUFF said:


> How long before you put hyd cylinders on the casters so you can adjust from the cab?


LOL


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## Aerospace Eng

I took the broom off and put on the towing adapter yesterday. The base came with the machine, and had been used for something else....I just had it painted and put the pintle hitch on it. I think I need to shorten it and use the special Belos top link...Cat 2 ends, but only a foot long or so.










However, it was leaking form one of the hydraulic fittings. I has been doing it since I bought it before, but hadn't done anything about it because it was always connected either to the blower or broom.










I took the leaking one off and took a look.....










My guess is that someone took a screwdriver and a hammer to try and relieve some pressure for connection. Why they didn't just turn on the ignition without starting and run the valves, I don't know. If you can't do that, at least use a large punch (or better yet a brass drift) so the sides of the fitting constrain the punch so it can't be off the pin.

Fortunately, I had ordered a spare set of fittings a while back (they are European spec, and don't have the same threads or diameters as SAE fittings, so no running to tractor supply or equivalent.

On a more positive note, I like the cart for the pressure washer very much. The cart is made by Wellmaster out of Ontario, one of their "mini nursery wagons." They were fantastic to deal with. They make an interesting variety of products.

https://wellmaster.ca/

I don't have it set up with a tote to make the system completely portable yet, but the cart will support 6,000 lb. and has 4 wheel steering. Due to the steering, it will follow the tractor path exactly. 
In fact, if you have a train of carts, they all follow the tractor path exactly.






I will note that I tried to push it through a 90 degree arc into the hangar. I have spent a lot of time backing up trailers while towing, or pushing them with tractors off a front hitch. I like to think I am pretty good, but this ate my lunch. Jacknife city to the extent that I gave up and just pulled it into the barn. Pushing straight is OK, but I'm going to need a lot of practice turning.


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## Mr.Markus

80% of the time I have a leaky female fitting it is the 40¢ O ring. I always pick it out and give it a new one just to make sure. My eye sight is never good enough to know where its weeping from. I have used the punch method to open under pressure, always stick a rag in first..
Yours is done, i see it better in the picture than i would in real life...lol


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## Aerospace Eng

As I posted in another thread, I tried to drive it through the wall of my hangar. I only got halfway.

I had put the broom back on to broom the pressure washed crap away from the hangars. When I went to shut down, it stayed throttled up. However, I had also noticed a hydraulic leak.

A few days later, I decided to troubleshoot the leak and started it up, and it was in full throttle. As a bit of background, the machine has two engine throttle modes. Work mode, where a rheostat controls the engine RPM and the go pedal controls the hydrostat, and Drive mode, where the go pedal controls throttle and the hydrostat is basically in a fixed "gear ratio." Obviously, this requires a throttle actuator, and it is located on the right side just inboard of the taillight and under the deck

The machine was in work mode, with the parking brake on. When the parking brake is on, the machine is put into neutral regardless of the gear position.

So I thought - what if I put it in drive mode? It stayed throttled up, but didn't move. The go pedal was all the way back. I forgot about the parking brake/neutral interlock. I should have stopped there - I had verified it wasn't the rheostat.

Instead, I thought I verified it was in Neutral (miniature toggle switch on teh side of the joystick) and flipped the parking brake switch to "Off". What I thought this would accomplish, I cannot recall, but it would have provided no information. It was a clear case of a brain fade. It was also a BIG MISTAKE, as it launched to the wall. It could have been worse, but it damaged both the building and the broom.

Fortunately, no-one was hurt.

















The culprit turned out to be a sticking throttle cable.









the reason it was sticking was that the pin in the actuator seized up, and as it moved would not allow the cable to align itself.

A little lube on the pin, and the cable popped back.










Some more lube on the pin, cable, and throttle and everything works as it should.


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## Aerospace Eng

I thought about repairing the hood, but it was only $600 for a new one, which was worth it to me so I didn't have to cut out the damage, get some sheets cut, welding them onto the hood, painting them, adding hose mounts, etc., so I bought it.

While I had the hood off, I decided to change out the brush. It was coned due to the design (which is why I added wheels) and getting to the end of its life. The brush had a one poly two wire pattern.


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## Mr.Markus

Im always amazed when i get the new brushes and put an old one on top of a new one just how little life is left in them and how used to how the sweeper sits I become.
Good thing no one was hurt except for mr pryde.... In my younger years i would jump off the front mount tractor with it at full throttle without setting the brake and on a few occasions when I would jump back on my foot would land on the reverse side of the hydrostat pedal. The machine would pop a wheelie in reverse and I would end up on the ground in front of it usually hitting the mower deck on the way down.


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## Mark Oomkes

Mr.Markus said:


> Im always amazed when i get the new brushes and put an old one on top of a new one just how little life is left in them and how used to how the sweeper sits I become.
> Good thing no one was hurt except for mr pryde.... In my younger years i would jump off the front mount tractor with it at full throttle without setting the brake and on a few occasions when I would jump back on my foot would land on the reverse side of the hydrostat pedal. The machine would pop a wheelie in reverse and I would end up on the ground in front of it usually hitting the mower deck on the way down.


Never fell off the mower...but I may have popped a wheelie or 3.

And agreed on the brushes.


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## Kvston

So I lived in Ticonderoga for 20 years. What you’ve experienced with that machine is typical of their “maintenance.” They don’t wash anything, hardly grease, love leaning on shovels.
Only thing I’d buy from the highway department is scrap. Hasn’t been a decent mechanic in their shop or a good highway department supervisor in my lifetime.
And no I did not work for them-couldn’t stand the boredom.


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## Hydromaster

I blame the operator.
The parents get a pass on this one.

Ps

Maybe you can get a hold of Todd’s daughter and she can help move the machinery around the hanger for you?


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## the Suburbanite

Glad you got it sorted, and that the damage wasn't worse to the building or the broom.


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## Mr.Markus

Mark Oomkes said:


> Never fell off the mower...but I may have popped a wheelie or 3.
> 
> And agreed on the brushes.


You da man.. !
https://youtu.be/4OSp-pIxCgE


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## Aerospace Eng

Here's the new hood and broom installed, with the largest of the old poly bristles


















I went with wafers that had poly and wire on each wafer










The wires were plastically deformed. This is the result of excessive broom pressure (Issues like this are why I put on casters).

To work well, they should be deformed in the elastic range so that they spring back straight and flick the dirt/snow/debris. Excessive pressure reduces effectiveness and drastically shortens life.


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## Aerospace Eng

And now for a "Bridge to Far" moment.

There was a slight seal leak from the motor (over a week it would develop a 6-8" spot on the floor.

I figured as long as I was replaceing hte hood to replace the seals, so I bought a seal kit from MB. (Once I figured out the part number it would have been half from various shops on the internet).

Because the shaft seals see high pressure, they have to be removed from the inside, which means the whole pump has to be disassembled. I downloaded the directions and got started.

Here's the parts diagram...










The back came apart easily enough...



















And the rear bearing and bearing spacer were straightforward.










The directions said to get the front bearing out to use a chisel to deform the lower pat of the shell, remove the rollers, and then remove the shell (which is also the outer race) with an internal puller and slide hammer. I got the rollers out, but the shell would not come. It just broke pieces off of the shell flange










I tried what I should have done in the first place, hydraulically remove it using grease. It works with pilot bearings, but this was a through bearing so I had to use the actual shaft and hope the seals were sufficient.



















No dice.

I tried a brass drift through the shaft hole, no movement.

I'm not sure what to try next, other than either baking it at 450 or so and seeing it the shell comes out or using my mill and a boring bar to thin the wall until I can collapse it. This may prove difficult since it is an outer race and therefore hardened.


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## Aerospace Eng

Well, I gave the pump one more try, and then invoked the $$ value of my time and bought a new pump. It was the same series pump (RE500300), but Danfoss bought White. The new pump had been redesigned with a front seal carrier bolted in (I wonder if it could be because no-one could get the bearings out and it made no sense to have to destroy bearings just to replace a seal). If the shaft seals ever leaks, the pump is now a lot more repairable.

Old Pump:










New Pump:










The new one had a 3 position flange (5100 sub-series), rather than a 2 position (3100 sub-series), but that was irrelevant to me.

Installation was easy










Then I brought over my drum of hydraulic fluid and refilled the reservoir through the return line provided on the front of the machine. The pneumatic drum pump makes it easy, and doing it this way ensures that the new fluid is filtered before it gets to the reservoir.



















The "top link" is hillbillied together out of various hooks and links to get to an appropriate length. The problem is that it is a cat 2 size, but the barrel has to be only 9" or so long. I'll make something, but for now it works. I let the broom down until I see some slack, then raise just until the slack is gone.

Finished filling the reservoir and leak checked the motor and swing hydraulic connections (the fluid on the floor was residual in the line that came out when I removed the plugs as I was connecting to the motor), I then operationally checked the setting of the casters, and I am ready for our predicted snow tomorrow.


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## Aerospace Eng

I played around with the broom a bit today.

The pattern looked good.









I tried sweeping some pools of dirt/algae that collect on some outdoor slabs at the airport near the floor drains for when the hangars get built.










It worked well. The smell reminded me of cleaning fishtanks when I was a kid.


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## Aerospace Eng

Although the snow wasn't done falling (at the airport, usually it's wait until it is done and then plow, as no-one is flying when it is snowing), I had to move the machine out of the hangar temporarily to get the Oshkosh in to work on the plow. As long as I was outside, I decided to try the new bristles on snow. There was about 2.5" down, on average, with a bit more in some spots, and a bit less in others depending on the winds around the building.

It worked well, and threw the snow a long way. However, it is even worse than a snowblower with respect to fines. The only way I could broom against the wind, since there is no chute to turn 90, was to drive by looking out the side window at the already broomed path.
























The path immediately behind was clean down to the asphalt.










I have to devise a hood and/or deflector to reduce snow buildup on the hood.










Overall, I am happy with these bristles.


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## BUFF

Aerospace Eng said:


> Although the snow wasn't done falling (at the airport, usually it's wait until it is done and then plow, as no-one is flying when it is snowing), I had to move the machine out of the hangar temporarily to get the Oshkosh in to work on the plow. As long as I was outside, I decided to try the new bristles on snow. There was about 2.5" down, on average, with a bit more in some spots, and a bit less in others depending on the winds around the building.
> 
> It worked well, and threw the snow a long way. However, it is even worse than a snowblower with respect to fines. The only way I could broom against the wind, since there is no chute to turn 90, was to drive by looking out the side window at the already broomed path.
> 
> View attachment 210061
> View attachment 210062
> View attachment 210063
> 
> 
> The path immediately behind was clean down to the asphalt.
> 
> View attachment 210064
> 
> 
> I have to devise a hood and/or deflector to reduce snow buildup on the hood.
> 
> View attachment 210065
> 
> 
> Overall, I am happy with these bristles.


It's always satisfying when you blood and sweat you out into a project works as expected.


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## Mr.Markus

I had the same experience when people told me to use a backpack blower on walks . I think i had less snow on me when I was 5 building forts in snowbanks...sand at least is a different animal when it comes to sweeping. i need to plow sand off beach resort parking lots.


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## Aerospace Eng

Did I ever mention I hate salt?

I was brooming the other day, and suddenly the steering wheel did not respond when trying to turn left.

I could turn right just fine, and if I turned all the way to the right, full steering in both directions was restored temporarily. This is not the behavior you want in an articulated (or any) machine, so back to the barn to investigate.

This past weekend I investigated....

This is not what you want to see on the rod of the left steering cylinder.










The cylinder itself had corroded, so a seal kit isn't going to fix it. I think what was happening is that the top head was popping out, and when I turned all the way right it was forced back inside and function was restored until enough turning forced it back out.










What's another 10 gallons of hydraulic fluid?

I hate salt. This is the newest equipment I have by 15 years, and it is in by far the worst shape, all due to salt.


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