# US Maint stikes again



## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

well guys, got a call for 2 bank of americas in my town. ran by US Maint. Said they were only willing to pay 4k for both lots. thats 2 k each.
I laughed, and he wanted to know my price. told him i would get back to him.

This is now the 3 account they have asked me to handle. all priced way to low. 2 rite aids, 1 target and now the 2 bank of americas.

To make the matters worse, I guess they are in the process of converting Burger King franchise into there accounts. that means my 2 awsome paying accounts, next year will be held by these idiots. looks like they will be going for 2k a year also.:crying:

We as an Industry need to stop this,


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Its only going to get worse! I remember a guy I know asking me to give him a price for a Best Buy, doing mowing, spring clean ups with mulching. The mowing went for $47.00 per week, (he said) the spring clean up went for $400.00 (again he said)  I priced it for mowing at $105.00 per time and the spring clean up was about $1200.00 this was a few years ago but holy crap! No thanks.


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## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

and i love there contracts, Holy piss. about 30 pages..


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## Snowshow (Nov 22, 2002)

Been servicing two of their properties in our town for about four months have still not been paid. I sent them a notice letter in the mail per their contract. Boy, if you miss one of those 30 pages they are all over you, but gosh darn if you just want to get paid then we can wait. I have just about had it. They have till our next service date to provide payment or we are done. Period. I signed up with USM about four months ago have not seen a dime!


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## dannyslawn (Oct 29, 2007)

They contacted me about 2 weeks ago to bid 4 Bank of Americas. Banks ranged in size form around 20,000 Sq Ft. to around 50,000 Sq Ft. They wanted plowing and walks done every inch. Salt and icemelt as needed. For the smallest of the 4 I was going to bid 6000.00 for the season. They said they would not go any higher then 3700.00 per season on any of the 4 banks. I laughed at them and told them they are crazy!


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## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

they are just out of there mind, 
It makes me sick, because im sure they are making a killing being able to offer all services from snow, mowing, floor, and maint to building all under one house. im sure they are marking up our services beyond belief. and the way there account managers operate i bet they are paid on the commision or how much they can save there company by finding new low ballers and not paying.


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

If US Maint. is not paying what you need...don't work for them. Then the lowballer is busy there and you can get your regular rate someplace else...and get paid on time. The best of both worlds!!


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## FISHERBOY (Aug 13, 2007)

i was going to work for u.s.m but the october snow caught everyone by suprise, they told me i was going to get it, but i still had no contract signed, the other company from last season plowed it, and they told me because i didn't respond i wasn't going to plow for them, also does anybody know how they work there landscape maintenence, do they giv u prices for landscape maintenence, like snowplowing??????


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

They'll quit only when NOBODY will work for them and that's not going to happen. Somebody will always sign "to get started" or to fill in their route time with "just a few". If they have to, they'll pay a little more to pick up a new market, but after a winter or two, they'll be back to dictating "what we'll pay". Your only hope is to avoid "chain store accounts. Stick with the owner-operated businesses or franchises where the onsite owner/manager hires contractors. They'll still care about quality and service. Maintain personal service. USM type operations don't want these, anyway.


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## tjlands (Sep 29, 2005)

hotshot4819;633268 said:


> well guys, got a call for 2 bank of americas in my town. ran by US Maint. Said they were only willing to pay 4k for both lots. thats 2 k each.
> I laughed, and he wanted to know my price. told him i would get back to him.
> 
> This is now the 3 account they have asked me to handle. all priced way to low. 2 rite aids, 1 target and now the 2 bank of americas.
> ...


Are you sure about the BK's? Hope not.
I am sure USM is still mad at me for the 200 page fax I sent them last year responding to a bid request joke they sent me.


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## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

i guess from what i was told, they are already handling the accounts in the midwest. They are in the process of transfering all of them that are franchise. So from the sounds of it, i will be plowing for my burger kings for the last year at a good rate. 

I told the account manager right on the phone. " I hope you guys dont come in and destroy a great account and hire a bunch of low ballers." his replie " sir we dont do that"


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## IDOCTORTREES (Dec 27, 2006)

Grampa Plow;633728 said:


> If US Maint. is not paying what you need...don't work for them. Then the lowballer is busy there and you can get your regular rate someplace else...and get paid on time. The best of both worlds!!


I agree .STRIKE---STRIKE----STRIKE:realmad:


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

hotshot4819;634289 said:


> ..." sir we dont do that"


BS. That's their business model.


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## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

tell me about it. 
I spoke to them again today, and i talked to my friend, he used to plow both bank of americas for them and never got paid.


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## IDOCTORTREES (Dec 27, 2006)

As soon as you sign you contract go to the court house file a lean on the property for the amount agreed. Dont release your lean with out payment in full.


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## exmark1 (Nov 30, 2005)

I am glad I never sent them the contracts back... they sent me a whole packet of info with contracts asking a bunch of questions. I called them and they didn't even have anything they wanted bid, they just wanted to have someone in case or something.

Based on what I have heard here I shredded them!


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## mike33 (Feb 15, 2006)

I was with is maint. on a rite aid for 3 years now there sister company has it USM. Im in maryland and the rep was in s..e. Pa we had good relationship and i got paid okey. Now this year my rep is in Calif. and wont ever answer and takes 4 days to call back. How about the bit of giving a 3% discount and getting paid in 10 has any one done this program yet?
mike


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## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

Do they offer that program mike? i would be interested in something like that for them if they actually paid.


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## Sno4U (Dec 30, 2003)

I did lawn work for a large truck stop a few years ago. USM came in and told me I could do it for 1/3 of what I was doing it for the 3 years prior to them taking over. I gave up on it. Since then they've contacted me a couple of times and I 've just simply screwed with them on the phone-why? 'cause they deserve it!!!!!!


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## be250 (Nov 6, 2006)

hey, take the job but never show up . he he he barry


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## GL&M (Sep 26, 2005)

be250;635263 said:


> hey, take the job but never show up . he he he barry


Yeah. They ain't gonna pay you anyway.


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## IDOCTORTREES (Dec 27, 2006)

Hey I talked to my brother today,he is still waiting on his last 1000.00 payment from them they did not want to pay butt the lein he had payed off at the end.They said they send check on the 12th.


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## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

when i spoke the the manager today, he was like, you have no worried about us paying. You can contact me anytime, and i have been here 3 months lol
talk about a sales pitch


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## mike33 (Feb 15, 2006)

hotshot4819;635065 said:


> Do they offer that program mike? i would be interested in something like that for them if they actually paid.


Yes, i just faxed my contract back to day. I signed up for the quick pay program give them 3% discount and get paid in 10 days, will see how it works. I had good luck with US Maintance. I got paid any where from 30 -40 days no problem. The lot i do im am actually getting over paid by there prices. Last few years i got 275 to plow lot it takes 1 hour, not bad. This year Im with USM and got beat down to 225. This is still good money for 1 hour worth of work. Last 2 years my hour rate was 65/hr now im 75/hr
Mike


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## scoopdog (Jan 7, 2008)

be250 said it perfect. the only way we can get these guys with no equipment or back up plan out of our business is say we would love to work for or with them and get as much info on them as possible and not show up. We all need back up equipment and operators so should they!!!


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

exmark1;634960 said:


> I am glad I never sent them the contracts back... they sent me a whole packet of info with contracts asking a bunch of questions. I called them and they didn't even have anything they wanted bid, they just wanted to have someone in case or something.
> 
> Based on what I have heard here I shredded them!


What businesses in MN do they handle? I've had no contact with them so I just assumed they don't operate in our neck of the woods.


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## IDOCTORTREES (Dec 27, 2006)

mike33;636226 said:


> Yes, i just faxed my contract back to day. I signed up for the quick pay program give them 3% discount and get paid in 10 days, will see how it works. I had good luck with US Maintance. I got paid any where from 30 -40 days no problem. The lot i do im am actually getting over paid by there prices. Last few years i got 275 to plow lot it takes 1 hour, not bad. This year Im with USM and got beat down to 225. This is still good money for 1 hour worth of work. Last 2 years my hour rate was 65/hr now im 75/hr
> Mike


3% for them to pay you on time? Thats BS-BS-BS.


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## exmark1 (Nov 30, 2005)

Camden;636333 said:


> What businesses in MN do they handle? I've had no contact with them so I just assumed they don't operate in our neck of the woods.


I know they manage the Target store here in Alexandria, so I would assume they do all of them. Thats the only place that I have heard anything about them from...hopefully it doesn't catch on around here!


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

IDOCTORTREES;636492 said:


> 3% for them to pay you on time? Thats BS-BS-BS.


Yeah what a crock that is, i opted out of that, they still need to pay within contract guidelines, i dont need it next week but dont take two goddam months or longer!


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

FISHERBOY;633743 said:


> i was going to work for u.s.m but the october snow caught everyone by suprise, they told me i was going to get it, but i still had no contract signed, the other company from last season plowed it, and they told me because i didn't respond i wasn't going to plow for them, also does anybody know how they work there landscape maintenence, do they giv u prices for landscape maintenence, like snowplowing??????


That sucks fisher... they seem like a company that would do that... what did they do, call the old company when you didnt respond? Theyre all over us like flys on shiat because id consider myself one of the most high end landscape companies they use for some of our more local work for them... im sure they deal mostly with joes, and i can see why, i doubt we will continue to do work for them in the next year or two, its gonna wear thin by then.

We too had a huge payment many days late, i mean, due in 45? hah, closer to 100 we finally got it after a lotta jumping through hoops. If the snow turns into that this year, theyre done, we dont operate like that and will provide top notch service for their sites. At least the best we can for their prices, and if they cannot pay? They can call up some other company and plaster them with insurance requirements and see how good they're gonna be.

We do get a fair amount for smaller parking lots though for them, most only take about an hour so its not bad. Of course, if we started to run into a lot of problems with them, i'd be done with that.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

dannyslawn;633629 said:


> They contacted me about 2 weeks ago to bid 4 Bank of Americas. Banks ranged in size form around 20,000 Sq Ft. to around 50,000 Sq Ft. They wanted plowing and walks done every inch. Salt and icemelt as needed. For the smallest of the 4 I was going to bid 6000.00 for the season. They said they would not go any higher then 3700.00 per season on any of the 4 banks. I laughed at them and told them they are crazy!


dannys, your saying they offer you a price to take care of one lot and thats a per season price? When do they pay out the $3700 then , 45 days AFTER the last snowfall? lol wouldnt suprise me

I wouldnt allow any seasonal prices dealt that way through them, its per time basis only since they'd always gripe over your performance and how many times you go out if its per season, theyd expect $10000 worth of work for the $3700.


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## Randy Scott (Nov 6, 2000)

It's not US Maintenance's fault, it's your local contractors who agree to work for this kind of pay. Right, wrong or indifferent in regards to US Maint, if local contractors had a clue on expenses and how to run a business, for profit might I add, this wouldn't be a problem. Clearly, in times that are tough (like NOW) people will ***** themselves at any expense. Whether it's big or small contractors.


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

A while back I was doing the biggest lot in town and the company that owned it started paying way late (over 60 days...contract said 30). Three days before a BIG storm was to hit us I called and told them I would be getting a in the next 2 days or I wouldn't be there. The mall manager said "ou can't do that...we have a contract." I smiled at him and walked away. About an hour later I got a call from one of their corportate lawyers. He said to me "You can't do that...we have a contract." My response was I WILL have a check for my $5,000 in 2 days or we won't be there." I also told him that I didn't give a shi$ who he was NO judge would uphold his contract if he didn't pay on time. I also told him that if he wanted to cancel the contract because I wouldn't work until I got paid (and he got a new contractor to do the job) I would wait until the end of the year and sue the mall for breach of contract for what I would have made had I plowed. We got along just fine after that...checks were mailed within 30 days. Think about this guys...if you tell them you aren't going to be there unless you get your check...in mid season they'll have a heck of a time to get someone else, and even if they do, you STILL make the money on the breach of contract end. You just have to talk to them and let them know you KNOW what your talking about and you mean what you say! Good luck.


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## YardMedic (Nov 29, 2006)

Grampa Plow;636562 said:



> A while back I was doing the biggest lot in town and the company that owned it started paying way late (over 60 days...contract said 30). Three days before a BIG storm was to hit us I called and told them I would be getting a in the next 2 days or I wouldn't be there. The mall manager said "ou can't do that...we have a contract." I smiled at him and walked away. About an hour later I got a call from one of their corportate lawyers. He said to me "You can't do that...we have a contract." My response was I WILL have a check for my $5,000 in 2 days or we won't be there." I also told him that I didn't give a shi$ who he was NO judge would uphold his contract if he didn't pay on time. I also told him that if he wanted to cancel the contract because I wouldn't work until I got paid (and he got a new contractor to do the job) I would wait until the end of the year and sue the mall for breach of contract for what I would have made had I plowed. We got along just fine after that...checks were mailed within 30 days. Think about this guys...if you tell them you aren't going to be there unless you get your check...in mid season they'll have a heck of a time to get someone else, and even if they do, you STILL make the money on the breach of contract end. You just have to talk to them and let them know you KNOW what your talking about and you mean what you say! Good luck.


That's awesome! gotta love happy endings


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Grampa Plow;636562 said:


> A while back I was doing the biggest lot in town and the company that owned it started paying way late (over 60 days...contract said 30). Three days before a BIG storm was to hit us I called and told them I would be getting a in the next 2 days or I wouldn't be there. The mall manager said "ou can't do that...we have a contract." I smiled at him and walked away. About an hour later I got a call from one of their corportate lawyers. He said to me "You can't do that...we have a contract." My response was I WILL have a check for my $5,000 in 2 days or we won't be there." I also told him that I didn't give a shi$ who he was NO judge would uphold his contract if he didn't pay on time. I also told him that if he wanted to cancel the contract because I wouldn't work until I got paid (and he got a new contractor to do the job) I would wait until the end of the year and sue the mall for breach of contract for what I would have made had I plowed. We got along just fine after that...checks were mailed within 30 days. Think about this guys...if you tell them you aren't going to be there unless you get your check...in mid season they'll have a heck of a time to get someone else, and even if they do, you STILL make the money on the breach of contract end. You just have to talk to them and let them know you KNOW what your talking about and you mean what you say! Good luck.


Tough talk can be a double edged sword. Yeah you might get paid quickly by threatening to walk but you could easily be blackballed from the account the following season. It's not worth it to me to lose an account over occasionally late payments.


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

1st year of a 3 year contract. Like I said, let USM or anyone else know you can be pushed around...they will. Let them know you know how to deal with them through the legal system, they usually will back of. If they would have canceled the contract, I would have called them and laffed and said let's go to court. By the way, according to the contract, we'd be going to court in Youngston Ohio. He thought that would scare me. I laffed at him and said, you know better than that. You can put in there that we must do anything you list...whatever they say cannot supercede the rules of order in the state your in. I told him, no...I don't think so, you'll be coming to Iowa. Nuff said. I won't be bullied. Not afraid of a fight now or next time. Haven't lost so far!!


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## johnnard (Oct 23, 2007)

Be250 is spot on. Accept the job and never show. Their credability will be shot and we can continue to charge what it's worth. Maybe the lot owner has your buddies contact info in case USM doesn't show.


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## IDOCTORTREES (Dec 27, 2006)

I have put some thought into this discussion and it is the private contractor that is enabling U. S. Maintenance to be what they are to large corporate accounts. We have discussed accepting contracts and never showing or not accepting contracts and hopefully taking the power from U. S. Maintenance. Truly, what I think needs to be done is to place an emphasis on store managers being able to communicate and hire contractors directly. Obviously, the contractors are willing to do the work for less money than U. S. Maintenance is proposing. They are not in it for free. So I think that all private contractors should start an email campaign to corporate and their local stores pitching their quality of service and that it could be done more efficiently and at a lower rate than using a national third party company.


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## musclecarboy (Aug 19, 2007)

Compared to what a normal contractor would charge them directly, what is USM charging the client? If they're simply taking a $5000 job, skimming $1500 and giving the contractor the final $3500, THATS BS!!! THE CLIENT IS PAYING THE SAME AMOUNT!!! Please tell me that's not true.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Camden;636612 said:


> Tough talk can be a double edged sword. Yeah you might get paid quickly by threatening to walk but you could easily be blackballed from the account the following season. It's not worth it to me to lose an account over occasionally late payments.


I agree Cam. Most of the time the property manager I deal with has nothing to do with payment other the authorizing it. I want the PM's to be my freinds so I'll call him and tell him the payment is late and can he look into it for me.

I do agree with Doc in that if no one worked for USM we wouldn't have to deal with them.


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## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

Unfortunatley that will never work. It might work for a few of the smaller locations, but on a big scale it will not. I have worked with large contracts in the past, and everyone wants everything to be handeled through one source. It is much easier to call one person to discuss anything and everything with the whole chain than it is to call 300 different people to get the same information. These large companies don't care if they can save 20 dollars per push, or even 1,000 dollars per season, if they can make it easier for themselves. Fixed costs are easier to figure into budgets, and take much less time for the company to have only one contact. 
For the record I am on your side of this, I am just explaining the thought process of the big company. I do service work on medical equipment for many universities in the US, and I fight this same thing with them all the time.


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## ford550 (Nov 9, 2008)

> Compared to what a normal contractor would charge them directly, what is USM charging the client? If they're simply taking a $5000 job, skimming $1500 and giving the contractor the final $3500, THATS BS!!! THE CLIENT IS PAYING THE SAME AMOUNT!!! Please tell me that's not true.


It is true. That is why they low ball the contractor. So they can add their take on it as well. Just like we don't work for free, neither do they. With that being said, if they would just pay fairly and mark up from that point, everybody would win. And the big chains would still pay, as well they should because it is a premium service that they are asking these management companies to handle. It still saves the big boxes money even if it were at a premium price because they don't have to have 1000 local managers dealing with finding every service they need, well worth it to them. JMO


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

musclecarboy;637010 said:


> Compared to what a normal contractor would charge them directly, what is USM charging the client? If they're simply taking a $5000 job, skimming $1500 and giving the contractor the final $3500, THATS BS!!! THE CLIENT IS PAYING THE SAME AMOUNT!!! Please tell me that's not true.


But it is true. Sorry. They can sell central service (vs personalized and quality) for the same money as any contractor. Then get some schmuk to take it for "a little less" than it's worth. Happens every time. Just look at how many are willing to give up 3% for "quick pay" (truck drivers - sound familiar?). And that's another 3% over the 15-25% the plow guy already gave up. They get away with it cause too many don't know how to calculate costs and profit margins. Just look at how many threads there are about "What should I charge for this...". So, is it really surprising that USM and similar outfits can flourish? Just like any other broker - if they can't get anyone to perform the service, they're out of business.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

just a question.

when someone receieves a bid packet or a call from u.s. maint. why dont they call the business owners/establishment directly and just bid lower circumventing u.s. maint? Or if its locked in with u.s. maint. can you just keep track of what it was and bid on your own the following year? Anyway to steal business back?

I think if i were in some of you guys shoes i would be more inclined to try to under bid them and take the work back but im pretty inexperienced in the commercial world.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

bribrius;637216 said:


> just a question.
> 
> when someone receieves a bid packet or a call from u.s. maint. why dont they call the business owners/establishment directly and just bid lower circumventing u.s. maint? Or if its locked in with u.s. maint. can you just keep track of what it was and bid on your own the following year? Anyway to steal business back?
> 
> I think if i were in some of you guys shoes i would be more inclined to try to under bid them and take the work back but im pretty inexperienced in the commercial world.


Most of us will work for 2-3 years on getting five minutes of time from someone who makes decisions nationwide for their chain, It isn't as though you can walk in the door and talk to this person. You may get the name of the regional office, and keep working until you get to a decision maker. More than likely, these chains only listen to someone who can say they are regional or national -sad but true.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

Mick;637165 said:


> But it is true. Sorry. They can sell central service (vs personalized and quality) for the same money as any contractor. Then get some schmuk to take it for "a little less" than it's worth. Happens every time. Just look at how many are willing to give up 3% for "quick pay" (truck drivers - sound familiar?). And that's another 3% over the 15-25% the plow guy already gave up. They get away with it cause too many don't know how to calculate costs and profit margins. Just look at how many threads there are about "What should I charge for this...". So, is it really surprising that USM and similar outfits can flourish? Just like any other broker - if they can't get anyone to perform the service, they're out of business.


This is so true... but there are schmuks lined up around the block. Have any of you thought about creating a "cooperative" to compete?


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## kootoomootoo (May 11, 2000)

Not understanding why you guys dont 

1, File a notice of furnishing when starting.
Corporate will get this and will be asking questions. Puts the onus on US Maint to pay because now corporate has an interest in whether you get paid or not.
2. Inform store and regional manager that you have not been paid.


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## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

bribrius;637216 said:


> just a question.
> 
> when someone receieves a bid packet or a call from u.s. maint. why dont they call the business owners/establishment directly and just bid lower circumventing u.s. maint? Or if its locked in with u.s. maint. can you just keep track of what it was and bid on your own the following year? Anyway to steal business back?
> 
> I think if i were in some of you guys shoes i would be more inclined to try to under bid them and take the work back but im pretty inexperienced in the commercial world.


brib, it simply isnt that easy. They have the market for national companies. Not just the 1 single branch in a town. 
the franchise dont care about taking 1 store at a time, they want all stores taken care of by one company.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

hotshot4819;637304 said:


> brib, it simply isnt that easy. They have the market for national companies. Not just the 1 single branch in a town.
> the franchise dont care about taking 1 store at a time, they want all stores taken care of by one company.


Exactly, see my thread in the last week titled ... contract terminology do you believe this? .... lol, it outlines a lot of these questions


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## kootoomootoo (May 11, 2000)

hotshot4819;637304 said:


> brib, it simply isnt that easy. They have the market for national companies. Not just the 1 single branch in a town.
> the franchise dont care about taking 1 store at a time, they want all stores taken care of by one company.


If you want to beat corporate...play corporate. Like I said if you guys filed a notice of furnishing when you started, rite aid for example would be very curious as to why they now have all these notices of furnishing after hiring the new mgmt co (ie US).

Its perfectly legal to file....but dont think US is going to tell you to.

But you guys play by the check keepers rules.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

kootoomootoo;637740 said:


> If you want to beat corporate...play corporate. Like I said if you guys filed a notice of furnishing when you started, rite aid for example would be very curious as to why they now have all these notices of furnishing after hiring the new mgmt co (ie US).
> 
> Its perfectly legal to file....but dont think US is going to tell you to.
> 
> But you guys play by the check keepers rules.


I'll be completely honest with you, I have no clue what a "notice of furnishing" is. Please explain.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

it has to do with leins 

i think


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Yes, it has to do with potential for filing liens. However, it may not apply in you state as it applies to labor and material supplied to IMPROVE real property.


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## mike33 (Feb 15, 2006)

Like i said in earlier post i have been working for US Maint. for 3 years and had good luck. I have been paid from 30-45 days no problem and the rate they gave was better than if i charged by the hour. I signed up for the 3% i will see how it works and keep every one updated. I will say this year im with USM and my rep is in Calif. and im not so sure how this will work. My rep last year from us maint. was great i feel we actually became buddies. But, i did my job plowed when i was supposed after each service i phoned in service and received confirmation #. After a storm i would get needed rest and do my invoicing. My paper work was the way it was supposed too be. My rep would contact store manager and she always told them my service was excellant. Later my rep would tell me i had a high rating and made his job easier we had no problems. This particular rite aid was my bread and butter lot due to the elevation it sits and i done very well last 3 years from it.
Mike


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## murphy4trees (Sep 22, 2003)

This woman I see at dances pretty often has made it known she has a bit of a crush on me.. SO we get to talking and she mentions she works for US maintenance and of course they are handling the plowing for the 2 new Band of Americas in town, that happen to be built where two of my long time contracts used to be, and no more than 1 mile apart!.. So I thought.. cool I have an in on the bidding.. She just about told me directly that" you don;t want to work for them... don;t I know about them?" I dropped it... I'll have to fish for some more detaisl next time we dance..


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## evertonyardcare (Apr 4, 2007)

I just signed on with them last week me hat the #@#@ am I in for? we are one


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## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

evertonyardcare;638968 said:


> I just signed on with them last week me hat the #@#@ am I in for? we are one


is that sentance eglish? because i cant even put the words together lol


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

murphy4trees;638908 said:


> This woman I see at dances pretty often has made it known she has a bit of a crush on me.. SO we get to talking and she mentions she works for US maintenance and of course they are handling the plowing for the 2 new Band of Americas in town, that happen to be built where two of my long time contracts used to be, and no more than 1 mile apart!.. So I thought.. cool I have an in on the bidding.. She just about told me directly that" you don;t want to work for them... don;t I know about them?" I dropped it... I'll have to fish for some more detaisl next time we dance..


Sleeping with the enemy... I love it, lol. This sounds like the start of a spy novel.


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## kart14 (Jun 23, 2008)

I am just reading this thread three pages late. I am located in Kansas City, and we have dealt with U.S. Maint. for the last two years for snow removal and grounds. The snow removal was for the Bank of Americas. Over the last two years we have had to write off a total of $24,000.00, because of the way they do business. They have called us numerous times this season asking us to work with them. I have told them on several occasions not to call back. Their IVR system is a joke, and the way they do business is even worse. We had ten banks with them the last two years. The local B of A management has seemed to have broken away form USM and are contracting them differently. They have given us 23 of their local banks for snow removal. Everybody in town here in Kansas City that I have talked to refuses to do business with USM, but there will always be somebody willing to take the risk. If you read "The Snow Magazine" you will notice USM is second in the nation as far as volume is concerned. It won't be because of us anymore.

Eric


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

kart14;639184 said:


> I am just reading this thread three pages late. I am located in Kansas City, and we have dealt with U.S. Maint. for the last two years for snow removal and grounds. The snow removal was for the Bank of Americas. Over the last two years we have had to write off a total of $24,000.00, because of the way they do business. They have called us numerous times this season asking us to work with them. I have told them on several occasions not to call back. Their IVR system is a joke, and the way they do business is even worse. We had ten banks with them the last two years. The local B of A management has seemed to have broken away form USM and are contracting them differently. They have given us 23 of their local banks for snow removal. Everybody in town here in Kansas City that I have talked to refuses to do business with USM, but there will always be somebody willing to take the risk. If you read "The Snow Magazine" you will notice USM is second in the nation as far as volume is concerned. It won't be because of us anymore.
> 
> Eric


$24,000 really?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hmmm, aren't these guys members of SIMA too? 

Grampa Plow has the best idea so far.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

*Fighting back?*

Everyone here seems to gripe a lot about this trend. Grampa Plow an Kootoomooto offered good hardball approaches to REACT, but I have heard nothing about how us smaller companies can be PROACTIVE. So, I will start this off by saying that I am NOT suggesting some sort of plow union or price fixing. Those topics were beat to death last year -let's try a new approach.
A "cooperative" is a member-owned business entity. Board members make decisions for the cooperative, and they are voted in by the general membership. All financial info is transparent, and the membership has access to it. Profits are shared in the form of dividends, or reinvested to grow the cooperative.
For the sake of discussion, here is a potential business model. Everyone continues to run their own business autonomously, selling their own accounts, etc… Let's say a handful of guys in each major market join the cooperative and recruit members to cover surrounding areas. Perhaps these charter members take on a coordinator role to help pool the information, and maybe get compensated for this at a rate agreed upon by the membership.
The cooperative sets-up a small office to start… could be a charter member's spare room to get it off the ground. They create marketing material, and hire a salesperson. The salesperson would be compensated again at an agreed upon rate. This salesperson's sole job is to sell national accounts and compete with these other companies. The work could be bid internally, but within certain respectable prices which would allow a mark-up for the cooperative. Performance abilities would also be taken into account, but a system would be developed to make sure work is distributed fairly. 
A system similar to the call-in method would have to be in place to gather real-time information for the client. Customer service reps would be entering data as it comes in and each chain would have a report after each event. They would take service calls and dispatch the member who services the account. This operations structure would be nearly identical to the national maintenance companies EXCEPT:
A. It would not be a pyramid with one guy at the top -profits are distributed as dividends.
B.	Quality management would be a higher priority since the entire membership would depend on each other's performance. Performance = Profit, and educating each other would help the entire membership and give us an advantage.
C.	Payment would be timely with no BS strings attached. The cooperative would go after every delinquent dollar on behalf of the service provider and the general membership.
D.	Marketing this concept would be easy. Corporations are glomming onto the organic movement because it markets well. Supporting a "cooperative" which "provides even more advantages than corporate maintenance AND supports the independent local service provider" would be a marketable hook.
I've seen a thread from a guy in Indiana or Ohio which adopts a few of the cooperative principles, but ultimately it is a pyramid without profit sharing. No doubt the bigger companies are trolling this site, and someone will probably market a similar idea, but beware of pyramids masquerading as true cooperatives by offering a petty dividend or bonus scheme. Your thoughts?


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

It seems hard to believe that after all the bad press from USM that there are guys still doing work or considering doing work for these idiots. Post after post are guys complaining about not getting paid then you hear about guys wanting input wether or not they should sign up. The only way we can make companies like this go away is to stop working for them. Let them buy their own iron and find there own workforce. Sooner or later there going to run out of options.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

I've been reading the same thing - thread after thread - for eight years now. Nothing changes but the names of the guys getting beat out of their money.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

http://www.snowtime.usmaintenance.com/

The above link gets you to their snow page where they proclaim they can save clients up to a whopping 10% nationwide.

*We all know that they pay barely half of what most pros charge... so they are pocketing up to 40%.

They also sell three service plans: Per Event, Per Push, and Seasonal.

*Everything I have ever heard says they demand one seasonal price from subs, so this means that if they balance their accounts well they are making a killing off of our services in the right regions where they bill per event and per push.

Their homepage shows the COO, CEO, and their General Counsel.

The only way that their calculated practice of skrewing the little guy with non-payment or technical loopholes is if everyone that ever got skrewed by them were to document the incident and file a class action suit, but most in this industry are inexperienced business people, some are out-right hicks, or both.

*Do you guys have your lawyers picture on your homepage? Man, I hope not... we keep ours chained out back.

Do a search on the company and despite all the negative stuff posted you cannot find these comments unless you go many pages deep.

*It costs money to bury this stuff with fluff.

I did find out that CEO, David Gansky, owns a 65 foot benetti yacht with a net weight of 48tons. I will give these guys some credit though, as they have been the service biz since the 1980's and began franchising in the early 1990's. that is twenty years of franchising and following the needs or wants of big industry.


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## kootoomootoo (May 11, 2000)

Filing a notice of furnishing is pre-emptive NOT reactive. 
You file it at the start of season Do this on commercial landscape installs all the time.



big acres;639553 said:


> Everyone here seems to gripe a lot about this trend. Grampa Plow an Kootoomooto offered good hardball approaches to REACT, but I have heard nothing about how us smaller companies can be PROACTIVE. So, I will start this off by saying that I am NOT suggesting some sort of plow union or price fixing. Those topics were beat to death last year -let's try a new approach.
> A "cooperative" is a member-owned business entity. Board members make decisions for the cooperative, and they are voted in by the general membership. All financial info is transparent, and the membership has access to it. Profits are shared in the form of dividends, or reinvested to grow the cooperative.
> For the sake of discussion, here is a potential business model. Everyone continues to run their own business autonomously, selling their own accounts, etc… Let's say a handful of guys in each major market join the cooperative and recruit members to cover surrounding areas. Perhaps these charter members take on a coordinator role to help pool the information, and maybe get compensated for this at a rate agreed upon by the membership.
> The cooperative sets-up a small office to start… could be a charter member's spare room to get it off the ground. They create marketing material, and hire a salesperson. The salesperson would be compensated again at an agreed upon rate. This salesperson's sole job is to sell national accounts and compete with these other companies. The work could be bid internally, but within certain respectable prices which would allow a mark-up for the cooperative. Performance abilities would also be taken into account, but a system would be developed to make sure work is distributed fairly.
> ...


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

kootoomootoo;640245 said:


> Filing a notice of furnishing is pre-emptive NOT reactive.
> You file it at the start of season Do this on commercial landscape installs all the time.


True. We should look at this for our installs too, but I'm not sure about Minnesota. A quick search and I viewed some Michigan forms which look very much related to construction only. Have you done this with snow?


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

In Michigan it has to be for a home/land improvement not a maintenance item


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

IMHO if USM is not going to pay why work for them? It is hard enough dealing with property owners, why put yourself in more trouble than it is worth? It would be nice if 60 minutes or Fox news did a story on these guys that would change things.


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## JBMiller616 (Dec 12, 2007)

This seems insane to me. Here you have this property management company, who most likely under bids the customer (10% off right?), then takes their cut and pays the sub the rest.

For those of you who have received contracts from these guys or have been approached by them, do they tell you exactly what property they want you to service?? If they do, wouldn't it make sense to try and cut out the middle man?? People now-a-days like personalized service, and I think most of you here do your best to provide that.

For instance; if USM approaches you and they want you to plow the BOA on the Main St for $2,000 for the season, you now have a basic idea of what they have quoted the BOA. Unless they have already entered into a contract with USM, wouldn't it make sense to move in and try to undercut them??

Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass here. But if USM contacted me to plow a lot, and they told me what lot, I would be doing research as to who owned or operated that property so I could come in just a bit lower than USM, and pitch the personalized service.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

JBMiller616;640917 said:


> This seems insane to me. Here you have this property management company, who most likely under bids the customer (10% off right?), then takes their cut and pays the sub the rest.
> 
> For those of you who have received contracts from these guys or have been approached by them, do they tell you exactly what property they want you to service?? If they do, wouldn't it make sense to try and cut out the middle man?? People now-a-days like personalized service, and I think most of you here do your best to provide that.
> 
> ...


i brought that up earlier in this thread because i think the same way. Try to undercut them. You may want to look back at the responses.


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## JBMiller616 (Dec 12, 2007)

Ahhh, I see. My bad. I can see how it might be hard to get in contact with a decision maker for a large chain.


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## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

its not even the fact that you cant get ahold of the large chains and the people in command. its the simple fact, This guy that handles the property for lets say target, his job is to keep them maintained, he figures, his life is easier calling usm for all targets rather then contacting the contracter that handles the maint for each and every target. call one rather then 100 people.
dont blam them. makes there life easier,


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## mike33 (Feb 15, 2006)

hotshot4819;641213 said:


> its not even the fact that you cant get ahold of the large chains and the people in command. its the simple fact, This guy that handles the property for lets say target, his job is to keep them maintained, he figures, his life is easier calling usm for all targets rather then contacting the contracter that handles the maint for each and every target. call one rather then 100 people.
> dont blam them. makes there life easier,


Thats exactly how it works. My wife for example manages a 130 apartment complex. She works for a management company 130 miles away. They collect the money, pay the bills, even replace furnances, ac's, etc. The ownere of the actual building gets a check once a month with out doing anything. He will make a major descision like last year when they repalced the windows for 300k. Otherwise he dont hear or have to make a descision when a furnance, etc., goes out. I have been with US Maint. for 3.5 years and part of my contact is not to approach rite aid about doing private snow plowing. I have no problem with this because i run an ethical business. They are in business also to make money.
mike


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

mike33;641241 said:


> Thats exactly how it works. My wife for example manages a 130 apartment complex. She works for a management company 130 miles away. They collect the money, pay the bills, even replace furnances, ac's, etc. The ownere of the actual building gets a check once a month with out doing anything. He will make a major descision like last year when they repalced the windows for 300k. Otherwise he dont hear or have to make a descision when a furnance, etc., goes out. I have been with US Maint. for 3.5 years and part of my contact is not to approach rite aid about doing private snow plowing. I have no problem with this because i run an ethical business. They are in business also to make money.
> mike


you are employed by USM or are contracted by USM?


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## snobama (Nov 19, 2008)

Amazing!!! There is a ton of work out there...maybe focus on that rather than bashing other companies. Oh that's right... that would take effort. It is easier to blame others for your misfortunes. Meanwhile many others are forging ahead and making things happen. Its unbelievable how many self loathing cry babies there are in this industry. Keep whining and I look forward to all of the other babies jumping on board to bash my comment. Don't worry I'll be busy working. Had a few minutes while my wife was watching Dancing with the Stars and added my 2 cents. FYI...she agrees with me!


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## mike33 (Feb 15, 2006)

Private cont.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

mike33;641283 said:


> Private cont.


you must be getting paid then?


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

snobama;641281 said:


> Amazing!!! There is a ton of work out there...maybe focus on that rather than bashing other companies. Oh that's right... that would take effort. It is easier to blame others for your misfortunes. Meanwhile many others are forging ahead and making things happen. Its unbelievable how many self loathing cry babies there are in this industry. Keep whining and I look forward to all of the other babies jumping on board to bash my comment. Don't worry I'll be busy working. Had a few minutes while my wife was watching Dancing with the Stars and added my 2 cents. FYI...she agrees with me!


Good point. People either need to find a way to compete ON their level or pursue other niche markets where they can only dream of competing with you. I am not sure why everyone thinks having a Walmart lot means they are successfulI. We would have a dozen small goldmines where our well-trained guys and tight routing can have trucks running at $150-300 per hour. If we lose one... no major crisis.

I was sent an email recently listing dozens and dozens of major national chains and the dozens to hundreds of each of their stores they are closing. This is going to open things up for everyone when new retailers eventually move in.


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## IDOCTORTREES (Dec 27, 2006)

My brother did a lein for snow . No big deal here in Montana


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## mike33 (Feb 15, 2006)

cretebaby;641295 said:


> you must be getting paid then?


Sure am 3.5 years with us maint no problem. Now with usm will wait and see, should be okey they are just a sister company. Talking to my rep , i think a lot lays with the cont himself not getting paid. First they have a call in auto-mated service you have to do, this is supposed to be done for every service you do and have 24 hours. Simple i do it as soon as i complete service they give you a confirmation # which has to be on your invoice. I was told many cont. don't follow directions by not doing this. Then your even told you will not get paid. Many cont. call in a service that they didn't perform. You get caught because when you call in they call store to ask if they was happy with service. If manager says its not snowing or there is still 4" of snow on lot, your caught and won't get paid. These people aren't stupid they sit and track the weather better then we do. On most storms us maint. will give me a friendly call and say possible snow, ice, etc. coming to your area are u ready. Also they know how much snow and temp. of the lot. Basically your not going to bull **** them. When i first went to the rite aid to look at lot i called rep and told him i was there, he zoomed in via sat. and told me the sq'. Not bad, i used my walk wheel and he was right even told me where the loading dock was. The rate they offered me was more then if i would of been called by rite aid and asked to bid. Also in contract i agreed too, i can not approach rite aid for a period of one year to do private snow plowing. I run a ethical business and would not do so. I have read a lot of negative here and sorry if someone didn't get paid, but for me i have no problem working with them. I have always been paid with in 30-45 days no worse than the other 32 commecial accounts i work for.
Mike


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## Tommy10plows (Jan 1, 2001)

If somebody beat me for $24,000 for snow removal over two years there would be a big problem. A $12,000 loss in the first year means I am not going back the second year to partner with them again. 

There is no reason to lay down for these types of companies. If you have to, video the lot when you are done working, In reality you should video your lots before the first snow so you have a record of field conditions as well as proof for any before/after damage claims. 

File your liens if you don't get paid, and stick by them. Prove your claim with good records, time sheets, video or whatever you have to do to substantiate your claim. But to lay down and accept such a big discount or non payment for the value of your services is in my opinion the same as if three thugs came to your house in the middle of the night, backed up a truck and took all your furniture and jewelry. 

Companies, and I don't care who they are, that go beyond your agreed upon payment schedule do not get serviced until they are current, WITH GOOD FUNDS, in your bank account. If you have to wait and the field conditions require extra work or salt to bring them back to an acceptable standard so they look as if there is no gap in services due to their slow pay / no pay policy, then the CUSTOMER has to pay for that remdial work. 

To do otherwise is a recipe for your business to fail, your bills to go unpaid, and your wife to say those four famous words:
"I told you so" and what guy wants to hear that?


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## tilawn (Feb 27, 2008)

mike33;641415 said:


> Sure am 3.5 years with us maint no problem. Now with usm will wait and see, should be okey they are just a sister company. Talking to my rep , i think a lot lays with the cont himself not getting paid. First they have a call in auto-mated service you have to do, this is supposed to be done for every service you do and have 24 hours. Simple i do it as soon as i complete service they give you a confirmation # which has to be on your invoice. I was told many cont. don't follow directions by not doing this. Then your even told you will not get paid. Many cont. call in a service that they didn't perform. You get caught because when you call in they call store to ask if they was happy with service. If manager says its not snowing or there is still 4" of snow on lot, your caught and won't get paid. These people aren't stupid they sit and track the weather better then we do. On most storms us maint. will give me a friendly call and say possible snow, ice, etc. coming to your area are u ready. Also they know how much snow and temp. of the lot. Basically your not going to bull **** them. When i first went to the rite aid to look at lot i called rep and told him i was there, he zoomed in via sat. and told me the sq'. Not bad, i used my walk wheel and he was right even told me where the loading dock was. The rate they offered me was more then if i would of been called by rite aid and asked to bid. Also in contract i agreed too, i can not approach rite aid for a period of one year to do private snow plowing. I run a ethical business and would not do so. I have read a lot of negative here and sorry if someone didn't get paid, but for me i have no problem working with them. I have always been paid with in 30-45 days no worse than the other 32 commecial accounts i work for.
> Mike


Exactly right all u have to do is the job and the proper paperwork in a timely fashion, I have been working with US Maintenace for 5 or 6 years now in both Lawn maintenance and snow removal and NEVER had any problems like everybody else is saying they are having


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## mike33 (Feb 15, 2006)

tilawn;642702 said:


> Exactly right all u have to do is the job and the proper paperwork in a timely fashion, I have been working with US Maintenace for 5 or 6 years now in both Lawn maintenance and snow removal and NEVER had any problems like everybody else is saying they are having


I would not let a bill go over 10k with any one with out some arrangements being made. Im glad to see someone else had good luck with them. Im not trying to wave baners for us maint. but they have done good for me. I still belive the fault lays somewhere with the cont. As far as pricing i do well a made alot of money from them. Looking on other threads i cant believe the prices guys are getting in various locations. When your getting over 100/hr with a truck plow that is some damn good money, won't happen in my area. Im in the lawn and excavating business and these guys are getting a better rate with a truck plow then we get with a D5 dozer. I guess then if you have to adjust your rates under 125 or so with a truck plow then your lowballing?
Mike


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## Rcgm (Dec 17, 2000)

U.S Maintenance is crap always has been always will be. Do a search here for U.S Maintenance one of the employees actually posted here 3 or 4 years ago looking for guys to give them bids he got his you no what ripped by tons of us. I knew a guy that plowed a Target strip mall for them for 3000 dollars a month if it snowed or not he did ok in Dec and Jan but Feb he got it handed to him.


Brad


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

Not defending USM, but that's what happens when you bid by the month or by the season. He shouldn't have complained to much about that.


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## mike33 (Feb 15, 2006)

I agree, bidding by the season goes both ways i will never do it. Okey if your getting 3k a month and both parties agreed, it dont snow or dumps like crazy 1 side will get screwed. Who is to blame?
mike


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## WheelerandSon (Jan 6, 2005)

US Maint keeps trying to get me to do contracts that are almost 2 hours away in some cases. I gave them my travel radius which is 1/2 hour away at most, yet they still give me some BS location. I just ignore there emails and calls.


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

Wheeler...if they are 1 hour NORTH of you, give me a call and I'll bid'em.


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## WheelerandSon (Jan 6, 2005)

Grampa, I will keep that in mind. They did email me about one in Dubuque. I will see if I can find it.


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

Now doesn't that make sense...contact a plowing company in Davenport to do a job 90 miles away.


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## WheelerandSon (Jan 6, 2005)

exactly......no sense at all


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## zabMasonry (Oct 13, 2007)

I like the idea of taking the contract and then not plowing. However i'm certain that is a breech of contract - even if you haven't been payed. Perhaps a better bet is to take a contract with very clear indications of payment periods, and gives you the right to suspend service if you haven't been paid. Wait till you haven't been paid and call the GM at the business where you are supposed to plow and say something along the lines of "USM has not paid me, I will not plow the next time it snows." Perhaps offer to do it with direct payment from the business. If USM is as bad at paying as you all are saying, this should not take long to happen.


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## snobama (Nov 19, 2008)

Wow...you're a genius. I'll bet your cleaning up with that philosophy.


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## duramax03049 (Jan 30, 2008)

the guy i sub to during the winter/my summer boss, dealt with us maintenance a few years back with rite aids and bank of americas. the bank of americas contracts i remember him saying were low but for some reason he liked them. and rite aids he had been doing for a few years. but a few years back they took forver in paying, sometimes the money wouldnt come in til the end of the following summer. we used to plow the burger kings in the area as well and they took a full year to pay. just amazing how the major corporations cant pay bills on time. and that was when the economy wasnt in the ****ter. im thinking this is my last winter im headed west to california. if i get the snow itch ill go to tahoe for the weekend


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## plownoob (Aug 14, 2008)

wow... If I paid my bills a year later, I'd prolly have debt collectors up my arse. Heck, I just switched celphone companies and my final bill is due 12/12/2008. I just received a collection notice 2 days ago. My directv... I swear, If I go an hour past due, they slap me with a $5 fee AND they shut off service. I wonder if they're making some interest money by letting the payables sit in a high yield account for a year and then do the disbursements.


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