# Crew finish times?



## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

I work as a sub so I don't get too involved with figuring overall plow times during an event, but I have a question for all you contractors about how you factor jobs and completion time or maybe its not a factor.

Say for example, your main contracts are commercial. Seems like the average snowfall for the past couple seasons has been 2-3 inches and from the time the snow stops, you send X amount of trucks out, and in 12-16 hours, your crews are done. Now that's all fine and dandy for making money. But would you consider that to be a bit overloaded and needing more trucks? It's not out of the question to get a 6"+ event, in that case, you're probably looking at 24 hours before the last property is done if there's no hiccups. 

I suppose what I'm asking is, when do you turn down work so you don't royally screw yourself and have angry customers when you bite off more than you can chew? Maybe its not a factor when you figure x amount of properties and x amount of trucks.


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## redclifford (Aug 10, 2015)

12-16hrs is way too long for our routes, let alone 24hrs in 6". We wouldn't have many customers the next year, all depends on your clientele


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Your time is essential in your bidding process a long with your route time. 12 to 16 hours is not unusual in a storm and plowing with the storm. Meaning finishing your route and repeating. If your out there in a 2'' snowfall and it's taking you 12 to 16 hours there is most likely a issue on somebody's part. Meaning not enough trucks, equipment and manpower.

If you took to much work and can't finish in a reasonable amount of time you won't have no repeat clients. It would be a struggle every season to find clients if the word gets out, A bad performance gets around quickly.

Not at my age but when I was younger I scored a lot of work from guys that had jobs or to much work. Clients will easily sign a reputable Contractor if there not being serviced in a reasonable amount of time. Most of the time you can just drive in and ask them why there not serviced.

And don't think there is not guys just running around looking for a bad performance or a job that can not be finished in time.


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## icudoucme (Dec 3, 2008)

Rule of thumb 1 truck 4 hours worth of work. About $100 per hour in revenue.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

icudoucme said:


> Rule of thumb 1 truck 4 hours worth of work. About $100 per hour in revenue.


Maybe up there.. in nj $100 an hour would put u out of business


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## icudoucme (Dec 3, 2008)

iceyman said:


> Maybe up there.. in nj $100 an hour would put u out of business


Yikes that's a shame. A plow truck has to be able to do an acre lot in under 60minutes. (Either expandable or winged) 9' minimum. On average we are $100 an acres


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

iceyman said:


> Maybe up there.. in nj $100 an hour would put u out of business


Not Nj but in Rochester Ny he could. I only say this because I live forty miles from him.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

Appreciate the replies. Didn't seem to be business savvy to have operations going for 12+ hours with a very minor event and there was a major imbalance with having trucks covering properties. All I could think about was that this contractor would be screwed if we got a decent snow and customers would be even more PO'd than they already are. For every contractor I've worked for, even with a foot of snow, we were out no more than 10 hours.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

icudoucme said:


> Rule of thumb 1 truck 4 hours worth of work. About $100 per hour in revenue.


Do you take an average snowfall event and use that for your figuring?


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

Math is fun
$100x4hr 20 events= $8000 per year per truck. Even double 40 events $16,000 ain't worth my time to live 7 months on call toother nature.

Good luck making money at that.

Very rough job needs dedication like few others.

Why not $50,000 per truck per season.

Race to the bottom? We deserve to make money when we do well. Raise your prices get what you should to be a dedicated professional.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

I would guess that the industry average is 6-7 hours per route per truck, for a single round of pushing.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

icudoucme said:


> Rule of thumb 1 truck 4 hours worth of work. About $100 per hour in revenue.


I have worked for less than that as a sub in years past. I would never work for that again. Or 100.00 per hour per truck.


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## icudoucme (Dec 3, 2008)

Good on you guys if you can make morepayup. In my area going rate for a loader 125. Per hour, truck work 95(sub contract 75). In Rochester snow is a commodity market. The market will bear what it can.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

My route order changes slightly based on time of day we start, amount of snow we have gotten/ are expected to get. What day of the week it is ( some businesses are closed= lower priority).
There's alot that goes in to planning a route, that most subs never even think of.
I have the route set up 2 ways as SOP.
1) whole route in order of priority
2) whole route in order of distance between accounts.
If my subs aren't available and I have to work alone I use #1
If I have a sub available, we split the route based on #2, if we can start before 2 am.
If we start after 2 am then we split route #1, so that all our apts, and businesses are done by 7 am.
I know all my customers personally, to my subs, they are just an address on a paper.
That's why it's important that they follow the list as it's written.
Some of those little old ladies, aren't going outside for 2 days after it quits snowing, or maybe they told you, " the bus picks me up Wednesday at 10:30, to go to the senior center for lunch and I do my errands and shopping then. "
No need to plow them on Friday,if we get 2", especially if there is more snow forecast before Wednesday.
There are a million variables. I don't think I have 5 contracts that are written exactly the same way as another.
I also have several resi's with gravel drives, +/- 2" we don't plow, it goes to packing down a base, so we don't tear up the gravel base.
Many of these are middle age people with 4 wheel drive trucks or suvs. They are fine with being serviced the next day on <6" of snow.
I give them a little break on price. It's a win/win.
At this point, when I get a call from a business, I tell them my morning routes are full, I can't guarantee service before 7 am. 
Residential contracts state that service will be provided once in a 24 hour period, while it's snowing and a final clean up when snow ends if needed. (Again, too many variables to expound on)
You either fit in to the model we have or not.
It's worked for 22 years, with minor adjustments.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

iceyman said:


> Maybe up there.. in nj $100 an hour would put u out of business


haha amen, don't get me started on hourly rates, companies still call and offer us $100/hr to plow with a 9' plow and salter

nj rates are like $175+ for skid, $225 for backhoe, $300 for 3+yd wheel loader "all this already on site" hauling extra or 4-8hr minimums per site.

trucks $125-165/hr, and even that those rates i don't want to do it since they're already plowing our accounts making 2-3x those amounts and still feels like not making enough. NJ with insurance, claims, labor overhead, taxes etc, if you're not billing out $200/hr per 2 man crew or per machine on average, you're going to lose over time and go under.


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