# Snow and Lawn Bid Package



## bulhead19 (Aug 1, 2011)

Hey fellas. I have to submit a bid to this commercial property for grass and snow for next year. In my area I get about 28-32 mows per property throughout the season. For snow, we get an average of 120 inches of snow. I would plow this property on a 2-3 inch push for seasonal. Just looking for some input on what to price this property at. For equipment I have a 61" Ferris Zturn, 61" Ferris wb, Ferris 48" wb and many 21`s for the smaller areas. For snow I have an F350 with a Fisher XLS and F250 with a 7'6" with wings so about a 9 footer. Just looking for some help. I appreciate it guys. Happy Holidays

http://www.findlotsize.com/?place=4568+Waterhouse+Road+Clay,+NY+13041&submit=Go&r=e


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

50 bucks....


----------



## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

How about the size of the properties green area and sq. Ft. Of the parking areas... 

This might help there chief


----------



## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Uh not sure but I think the op is some agency not an actual operator/owner.


----------



## BC Handyman (Dec 15, 2010)

Chineau;1695235 said:


> Uh not sure but I think the op is some agency not an actual operator/owner.


yup, I remember that name. what gv says, $50Thumbs Up


----------



## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Heck a twenty dollar Tim card and a box of bits.


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Chineau;1695343 said:


> Heck a twenty dollar Tim card and a box of bits.


Now many Tim bits,that makes a big difference.


----------



## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Chineau;1695235 said:


> Uh not sure but I think the op is some agency not an actual operator/owner.


Well in that case. $18.00, after all, its Christmas!


----------



## BC Handyman (Dec 15, 2010)

grandview;1695351 said:


> Now many Tim bits,that makes a big difference.


20 pack, but you only get plain.


----------



## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

50k........ and a bagel BELT from Tim's, love those things.


----------



## Snoviper (Jul 10, 2003)

This place is not too far from me, it is a IBEW union office. Wonder if they want their contractors to be union .


----------



## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

here you go http://lawnchat.com/lawn-care-estimation-calculator put in your rates and go.


----------



## bulhead19 (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm actually a solo operator in Syracuse NY. I am not a management company that you guys keep saying I am. Thanks for the link Quigley, that is a very helpful.


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Snoviper;1695478 said:


> This place is not too far from me, it is a IBEW union office. Wonder if they want their contractors to be union .


They wouldn't be able to afford union wages,


----------



## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

grandview;1695835 said:


> They wouldn't be able to afford union wages,


Hahahahah!


----------



## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

Well id be at 6k for the year in mowing, and 12k in plowing for the winter before salt. I can break it down if you want... Im better at pricing grass, not so good with the snow


----------



## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

Could you break down the numbers? I'd be close to 16k for the summer alone, just curios how you figured the price.


----------



## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

jrs.landscaping;1695907 said:


> Could you break down the numbers? I'd be close to 16k for the summer alone, just curios how you figured the price.


Yeah sure,
Well I figured it would take me about 3 hours to cut, trim and blow this place. So that's 180, round up to 200/cut. 30 cuts a year makes 6k. Im a solo guy so im right at 60/65 hour for mowing. And in the calculator it said this property is 2.5 acres. I can easily cut 2.5 acres in about 1.5 hours if im taking my time with a 60 inch zero, and about another 1.5 to trim and blow. I didn't really take into account all the trees and signs/obstacles so time may go up and so will price. Hard to tell with a picture. Would you mind breaking down your price? Thank and happy holidays!


----------



## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

8x55x32=14080

I left extra for mulch, fert, and trash.... a lot depending on how the contract is worded.


----------



## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

jrs.landscaping;1696007 said:


> 8x55x32=14080
> 
> I left extra for mulch, fert, and trash.... a lot depending on how the contract is worded.


Ah you are talking about total maint. I guess. I was only talking about cutting the grass


----------



## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

It really depends on the contract..... what does it include for both summer and winter services. I just like to see how close I am pricing properties.


----------



## bb1069 (Dec 26, 2013)

Haven't done mowing in a long time, being too busy with other work that pays better. The area of the country where you do the work has a lot to do with what you charge for snow removal. I have alot of knowledge & experience in big snow removal over a lot of years, but I don't claim to be an expert , but I price out snow removal by many things= Square footage base price + or minus the following: Location, Is in the same area of town where most of my work is concentrated. What is the terrain like including the material I am pushing on. Is it prone to drifting. How many obstructions. When does it have to be pushed by. Width of sidewalks( does it have to be shoveled or what eqp. can be used to do it). Do they want to push at 2" or more, etc.. How many steps are there. How wide of equipment can I use to push and what kind is needed. There are so many things to figure if you want to make money. Most of our contracts start at pushing at 2" and go up for every inch of snowfall after 4", but that can that varies on what the customer wants for a basic contract. We havehad contracts set for all snow after 1" accumulation and one at a set total price for the year, if it snows 2" or more at any one time, not mattering how many times it snows or the amount. Corporations sometimes like this type of contract, since they know exactly what snow removal costs are going to be for the year and they can budget for it, but you have to make sure you cover your butt and it pays to research weather patterns, etc. expected for the season. This can be risky, but we made a lot of money at it overall. Our contract read to push any total snow fall over 2" per storm and we got paid the whole years contract, and it only snowed once at 2.3" that year. We got paid the full season contract after the first and only storm of over 2". We made a killing, but it could go the other way just as easily. It was a gamble, but we figured the approx. max that we would push from past history, current patterns, approx. hrs., etc. We made a lot of money on it, and everybody was happy. My son and his partners do these a lot with warehouses, etc. in South Dakota. Usually these type of contracts have stipulations on whether snow has to be hauled away from site, when they have to pushed by, along with other various stipulations that the company requests. We try to bid jobs we know we can handle & make the money on and let the other guys have the ones that just pay the bills. We are full up and have never had a dissatisfied customer. I used be a City supervisor overseeing & doing the snow removal & ice control, purchasing and maintaining the equipment, etc. doing 280 lane miles min. of streets, in addition parking lots, various walks, all bridges, an airport, landfill roads, etc. . We did every single street in the City along with plowing, snow blowingof hauling off, and stockpiling of the downtown area snow. We had 2 backhoes, 2-3 loaders w/ quick attach 4 in one buckets and one snow blower to fit them, 3 motorgraders, 3 1 ton 4x4 plows w/sanders, 5-8 dump truck plow & sander combos total avail. when all running, 1 skid-loader, 1 end dump trailer for hauling ice control materials to an additional stockpile location, w/ 2 salt, salt-sand domes, along with other small eqp. with other depts.. We worked many years ago around the clock, and then eventually went to 12 hr. crew shifts. Besides all of this, I had a side business pushing snow for small lots and residential drives. We trained everyone, and everyone had a responsibility assigned in advance, along with routes, schedules, when and where to fuel, maint. scheduling, etc.. We usually had a skeleton equipment maintenance crew ready for break downs and everyone knew how to make the minor equipment repairs. Everyone was in radio communication. It all ran pretty smooth with not too many major surprises over the years. Since I retired from there many years ago and re-expanded my own business some since, I use a lot of what I learned on a small scale now. Take your people out and let them know what they are going to be done, what is expected, take them through dry runs, etc. .. Make sure that all people that work for you are on the same page, are trained, have communications w/you at all times and make sure you have contacts avail. to where you are doing work, for repairs, parts, supplies, etc. If done right, you can make a lot of money and cut your cost way down being efficient. 
Sorry, I probably gave you too much information.


----------



## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

So what's your price


----------



## bb1069 (Dec 26, 2013)

Based on hourly rates: Mowing around here for per 21" push mower or trimming used to be about 37.- 45.00 hr or about one cent per sq.ft. of mow area). Now little guys out of work are coming out of the woodwork, giving their work away for 15.00 to 20.00 per hr. or about 0.4 cents per sq. ft. for same work, and they will go broke in the end. Larger areas w/high speed riders get about $1.00 per in. of deck per hr. or more. min. with about a 1 hr. min time charged plus the trim work time depending on speed, and the best way is by the sq. ft. of no less than 0.35 cents up to 0.50 cents per sq. ft. or as much as you can get. Here is an example of avg.: ( 1 acre = 43,560 sq.ft x 2.5 acres per mow= 108,900 sq. ft. x $0.0040 per sq.ft= $435.60 per mow x 32 mows= $13939.20 per 32 mow season. 
This is what you would get around a eastern Kansas college town, max. when bidding. You can get more when bagging, etc. There are a lot of variables. and you have to know about how much you or you can cover per person and eqp. per hr. to check your figures. Everybody is different. You just have to figure what you have to make per hr. and figure how many sq. ft. you can cover in that hr. and how fast per feet you can trim. Try a trial area at home and check it out practicing. Your help can make you or break you. Use high quality string and equipment. Use premium, preferably no alcohol fuel in your 2-stroke engines w/ 91 octane or better if possible & a premium grade 2-stroke oil like Stihl or Echo brand for example. You'll be amazed at the power difference and longevity of your equipment. Don't go cheap on quality oil, string, etc. for your eqp. Synthetics can be a good choice.
Snow removal rates: Sometimes you can give some better deals if your work is all in the same area of town close by and you can just jump from one job to the other without reloading, or with minimum time used to do it. etc. Road and load time can eat your time and profits up. This works very well for us. We concentrate our work along a major corridor when possible and are able to jump from one lot to another, wiping them out very fast and we do very high quality work. We may have one crew on one side of street and another on the other side and sometimes a crew on both ends of the street meeting up together when done helping to finish the final one in the area. This works very well, as well as I can keep fuel, eqp., drinks, etc. too them and check on them much more efficiently so they can take a break together, or warm up when needed, bathroom breaks, etc. They seem to really like it too.
Costs: Most of our contract jobs are based on a base of snow pushing 2" or more up to 4" with a extra cost per inch after 4 inches of snowfall. Another way to figure is by the size of your plows. For instance a 9' truck plow will usually bring 90.00 per hr., a backhoe with a 10' push box will bring a min. of 100.00 per hr and usually 125.00 per hr. and so on. A walk behind snow blower can bring 50-65.00 per hr.. For instance, we get a min. of 125.00 per hr. for a 11' custom built push box that can hold 17+yds. of snow at a time and does a wonderful job. We cut a 6 hr job with a backhoe to 1.5 hrs with this 11' box. An 8' or 10' box w/ rubber bit for a skid-loader depending on loader size and area access works very well or you can use a angle plow on them w/wings to hold the snow on the ends works very well too. There are so many variables that can change price, but you can figure a base of $0.015 per sq. ft. min. for open areas, around here anyway and add per inch for over 4". 
For ice control, you can figure by the bag price w/m.u., with labor figured in or + 45.00-55.00 + per hr to put it down. Truck spreaders charge approx. $150.00 per bulk ton spread for salt or salt/sand mix or by the sq. ft. You can do the calculations and measure your gate settings versus speed, to know application rates, etc.. Keep a record of settings, application locations, rates and coverage,temp's, etc.
We also use WeatherUnderground.com and local weather channels to monitor and document every storm as it develops, including all weather & ground conditions and accumulations, and when storm starts & stops, We keep this on computer for years. We record it all, and put temps and basic approx. weather conditions, accumulations, etc. and when work was completed. Customers really like this. My Insurance co. and my attorney love it too. It can and has saved our butt before. Ice control can be a very touchy situation if someone slips and falls. The person falling will try to hold you liable as well as the property owner. This is pretty common these days if it looks like someone has money. It can help or hurt to take pictures when done. It is not whether you will be sued, it is when. Cover your butt, and your insurance company attorneys will love you. KEEP GOOD RECORDS. It saved us.


----------



## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

jrs.landscaping;1696190 said:


> It really depends on the contract..... what does it include for both summer and winter services. I just like to see how close I am pricing properties.


I was only quoting for cutting the grass, trimming, edging sidewalks, and blowing for the summer. And my plow price was based on only plowing, if they want salt that would be extra.


----------



## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

My summer price was for mowing as well, I figured 16k assuming they would have add ons like beds, pruning and other things, like I said a lot depends on the contract. I also won't plow without being in control of salt apps, especially if I'm responsible for walks. Salt is a lot cheaper than a slip and fall claim. So for winter I would be around 24k to maintain all surfaces for the season.


----------



## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

jrs.landscaping;1698144 said:


> My summer price was for mowing as well, I figured 16k assuming they would have add ons like beds, pruning and other things, like I said a lot depends on the contract. I also won't plow without being in control of salt apps, especially if I'm responsible for walks. Salt is a lot cheaper than a slip and fall claim. So for winter I would be around 24k to maintain all surfaces for the season.


You got that right on the liability part. And we would truly need to read the contract in order to give a real price.


----------



## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Hey bulhead, sorry if I put you out about the agency comment, did I see a post where you got scooped by an agency or at least something negative? I am small business, I bid my jobs write my quotes, run my equipment and have skin in the game, I have no time for the folks who only run other contractors. Hope you made out okay on the bid.


----------

