# Subbing for cheap... whats this guy make from my a$$?



## DScapes (Dec 2, 2009)

What would this lot bid out for roughly? rates around here go from $75an hour for a guy in a truck up to $125/hr for an established company looking to sub out... what would you guys do this lot for assuming you bid/did the work yourself? probably around a ton / ton and a half of salt spread?

this is my first year in snow removal and right now i've got a few resi's myself but i've been helping a buddy out subbing, just trying to get a grasp of numbers so i'm not short-handing myself of potential profits running good equipment (02 GMC 2500HD Sierra, BOSS 7.6" straight, standard duty, about to add some boss wings) 500# snow ex hitch spreader


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## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

what is he paying you? by the hour i assume. you said it is your first year plowing so yes he is going to pay you less than someone with expierance.


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

Well around here, sub rates are somewhere between $50-65 / hr. Around here a lot like that (just under 3 acres) would go for around $300-500 depending on who is bidding, what equipment is used and the type of service the client is expecting. For sidewalks, I would figure around $65-80, plus calcium chloride at a per pound applied price.


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## DScapes (Dec 2, 2009)

My bad, I'm experienced in running trucks, just first year with my own equip.

this is one of the lots on a rotation I run around with another guy, I've got a 7.6" boss straight on a 3/4ton GMC, and he's got a 7.6"yellow on a half ton chevy, sometimes we'll have a 3rd truck running with us

I was just getting $10 an hour last year behind the wheels or shoveling helpin a friend out last year as my main source of income is spring/summer/fall in landscaping...

would love to be getting 50-65/hr with my truck, i'm gettin $35/an hour from start/stop plus $10/bag of salt thrown... other option was to get paid a few more bucks / hour but no travel time, push time only on the clock

Basically... right now I'm a sub to a sub, as he got a lot more work thrown at him ( a few A lots from EMI along with some B's)

I was going to play this year by ear and just see how much business I got on my own vs how much time I had for subbing...

seems to be working out ok, 35/hr just seemed a little low, but I know it hurts to sub for a sub! haha

I bought the truck/plow near the end of the fall, so only had a couple months to set things up


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

Are you making money at $35/hr? I can't make money at $55/hr, but that doesn't mean that you can't. You probably make pretty good money off of salt, if he provides it for you that is.


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## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

I make 65 an hour and this is my first year. Your paying for your truck and fuel and what not off of 35 an hour? Sometimes I have to convince myself its worth the all night hours for 65 an hour


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## DScapes (Dec 2, 2009)

I was lucky enough to be able to pay cash for the truck/plow.

he does provide all the salt, so i'm making a good bit doing that now, but I could be getting $20 per bag spread and $50/hr by going to the contractor direct, it just takes a few years to get lots worth doing from them, (i'll probably do that next year if i buy a 2nd plow truck next season providing I dont close enough contracts on my own)

additional insurance, and burning roughly $7/hour in gas during plowing ($35-$7=$28/hr), i'm making scrap change now, but more then I was making last winter. I don't plan on recouping my expenses this winter as the truck will also be valuable in landscaping next year

He also allows me to tend my properties at the 4" trigger which most of my contracts are at, about 26 of them as of now... its a start! 

Basically, I needed work that started from 1.5-2" of snow because I'd have no work with the few 2-4" snow storms we get around here

so when i take into consideration the freedom I still have to complete my own contracts, i keep telling myself its worth doing for the remainder of this year.

for this last 5" storm we had on 1/7/10, i clocked 15 hours with him, and about 8 hours of my own contracts.

fuel pump failed on the truck 30 mins after we dropped plow for the first time a couple weeks ago, $500, but she worked like a beaut for the 23 hours straight she worked last week


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

its hard to say, depending on where you are if $35/hour is adequate, however, i charge my man labor out at $35/hour, and my skidsteers at $75/hour, assuming a skid is worth the same as a truck, AND he is going to make a little money off of you, i would split the difference and think something around $50-55/hour would be something close to fair, JMO


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## coral (May 4, 2008)

(02 GMC 2500HD Sierra, BOSS 7.6" straight, standard duty, about to add some boss wings) [/QUOTE]

About to? i think you should get more per hr just for that! payup


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## DScapes (Dec 2, 2009)

true that, once the wings go on and i'm out producing the other guys i'm with i'll ask for more money or find someone else willing to pay for quality work


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

DScapes;958763 said:


> true that, once the wings go on and i'm out producing the other guys i'm with i'll ask for more money or find someone else willing to pay for quality work


Have you looked around, or called other companies in the area and to see what they pay, and if they need help? I would do this. Even if you found someone to pay you $50, you would be a lot better off. It doesn't hurt to try.


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## mksuwndr (Nov 24, 2008)

I wish we could get your rates for subbing:realmad:
People in our market have driven the prices down to where they where 20 years ago.
If you bid a job at $60/hour you will most likley be underbid. 9 times out of 10
Sub rates here are $45/hour:crying:

location eastern Iowa


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

The one guy that i have been subbing for 4 years dropped his sub rates this year to $35. He told me this after i was behind the wheel for 19 hours last storm. I said let me get this straight, your cutting my pay $15 bucks an hour and you choose to tell me this after i worked all night and busted my butt. an offering to pay my fuel... I was almost LOL at him. I said pay me what you owe me i'll buy my own fuel.
If he hadn't gave me the snow ex 1075 this year i would have told him to finish the route his self. I am currently calling around to find other work, if i can't i guess I'll at least finish out the year for him since i bought a new blade and stuff for this year but I'll be working and driving a whole lot slower than normal.....I am furious about this. 
His excuse was that since he lost his biggest account this year he can't afford to pay the higher sub rates. He picked up a bunch of other accounts to replace it but he tried to tell me he isn't making enough on those to pay $50 bucks an hour plus fuel like years past. I'd like to see him replace me, he doesn't have to tell me twice and I treat his accounts like they are my own. I'm sure he can find someone to work that cheap but he will have to go behind them and double check there sloppy work, plus I've been with him so long he knows i won't steal anything or use his salt and stuff on my own accounts.. Our last conversation he said he was going to try and see if he could pay me $45 an hour with no fuel so i guess I'll wait and see. The bad part is i turned down being a sub for another company this year for $60 an hour to work for him, but i know his money is good and he always has plenty of hours for me plus he pays drive time from when i leave my house untill the last lot is clear.
I hope this isn't the norm for what sto come.


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

Damn I didnt realize how low sub rates are. $70 - 80/hr is mediocre around here for a V plow but they also include travel times between jobs. A 7.5 footer would get you $65 around here. Even if your profiting off $35 an hour that is too low IMO. I would want to make a min of $60 with the little plow you have.


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## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

around here you will get subs all day long for $35/hr the three biggest companies have a waiting list to plow for them at that rate.


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## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

Ouch that's low. I don't get any extra for my v. I'm ready to go to a straight blade because there's no benefit in it for me right now.


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## MeeksCo (Oct 31, 2008)

clark lawn;960103 said:


> around here you will get subs all day long for $35/hr the three biggest companies have a waiting list to plow for them at that rate.


WHAT? 
I wouldnt set my alarm before bed for less then $45 an hour. 
My truck, fuel, insurance, repairs, and most importantly: MY TIME! 
I'd like to know what company in Northeast Ohio that has a waiting list for subs at $35 per hour. 
I decided to sub this year as I am getting tired of the headaches of non payers, invoicing, and the hassle with customers. I may be making less per hour that I was working for myself, but, I am getting more hours and paid on time and offered guaranteed work.

Geez.
In my opionion........... If you're not happy with your rate, start calling around. Trust me, someone else will pay more for what you believe your worth. You just have to sell your confidence and provide quality work along with honesty and trust.


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## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

your in cleveland, im in youngstown. cost of living is alot less down here. there are alot of people that live in my town and drive the hour+ to cleveland because even when gas was 4 dollars a gallon it was so much cheaper. they can by 2-3 times the house around here for the same money.


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## smoore45 (Oct 27, 2007)

Holy crap $35/hr. Now I know that we have this discussion on here all the time....Different rates, different areas, blah, blah, I understand how it works, in fact Michigan is some of the lower rates in the country(and Canada). But $35/hr is starting to get very low no matter where you are! I hope that you are getting fuel, drive time and other benefits. I pay a guy $20/hr to DRIVE one of my trucks.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

show-n-go;959018 said:


> The one guy that i have been subbing for 4 years dropped his sub rates this year to $35. He told me this after i was behind the wheel for 19 hours last storm. I said let me get this straight, your cutting my pay $15 bucks an hour and you choose to tell me this after i worked all night and busted my butt. an offering to pay my fuel... I was almost LOL at him. I said pay me what you owe me i'll buy my own fuel.
> If he hadn't gave me the snow ex 1075 this year i would have told him to finish the route his self. I am currently calling around to find other work, if i can't i guess I'll at least finish out the year for him since i bought a new blade and stuff for this year but I'll be working and driving a whole lot slower than normal.....I am furious about this.
> His excuse was that since he lost his biggest account this year he can't afford to pay the higher sub rates. He picked up a bunch of other accounts to replace it but he tried to tell me he isn't making enough on those to pay $50 bucks an hour plus fuel like years past. I'd like to see him replace me, he doesn't have to tell me twice and I treat his accounts like they are my own. I'm sure he can find someone to work that cheap but he will have to go behind them and double check there sloppy work, plus I've been with him so long he knows i won't steal anything or use his salt and stuff on my own accounts.. Our last conversation he said he was going to try and see if he could pay me $45 an hour with no fuel so i guess I'll wait and see. The bad part is i turned down being a sub for another company this year for $60 an hour to work for him, but i know his money is good and he always has plenty of hours for me plus he pays drive time from when i leave my house untill the last lot is clear.
> I hope this isn't the norm for what sto come.


i think i would come with a 1/4 full tank and leave with a FULL tank, plus have plowed my own with his fuel....if thats the case.

I might even just wait until he calls you for the next snow storm at 1 am. and work out the details before you even go start your truck....soemthing along the lines of " look you dont want to pay a fair sub rate on what im worth, then im going to go do other accounts that are willing to, I can come and plow yours but it will more than likley be until morning....


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

elite1msmith;960534 said:


> i think i would come with a 1/4 full tank and leave with a FULL tank, plus have plowed my own with his fuel....if thats the case.
> 
> I might even just wait until he calls you for the next snow storm at 1 am. and work out the details before you even go start your truck....soemthing along the lines of " look you dont want to pay a fair sub rate on what im worth, then im going to go do other accounts that are willing to, I can come and plow yours but it will more than likley be until morning....


The last 2 events i showed up with the gas light on. it has cost him $297 in fuel already in one plow event and one salt event. They were spaced far enough apart that i had run the fuel back out of my truck, It doesn't take long, i drive 46 miles one way to go to my regular job.


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## hairygary (Feb 19, 2009)

DScapes;958763 said:


> true that, once the wings go on and i'm out producing the other guys i'm with i'll ask for more money or find someone else willing to pay for quality work


Sorry not to change the subject, but you said in your first post you were getting boss wings for your plow, but as far as I know Boss doesnt make wings for the standard duty plows, just super duty. I know you can get pro wings for your plow, which are about 25% of the price of the boss wings anyways.


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## DScapes (Dec 2, 2009)

Interesting. I'll need to look into the wings situation... I was under the impression wings could outfit the standard 7.6" and the super duty of course, but not the sport duty or the poly.

Anyone on the forum have a standard duty 7.6"BOSS outfitted with BOSS wings?


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## NW Snow Removal (Oct 12, 2007)

It sounds like he isn't carrying his own insurance so 35/hour is a great rate. if the guy he is working for is providing the insurance and tax id # then he is taking all the risk and 35/hr is more than adequate. Our subs have to have 1,000,000 in general liability ins and 500,000 workers compensation insurance due to the law change in 2008 thanks to blagojovich. We pay about 65/hr and 25/ hr for shovelers.


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