# One button 1st/reverse... New Idea= new thread



## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

The thread on what gear can i plow in and the other one about push button F/R got me thinking.

So i went and had a long chat with my resident tranny guru.
On Ford or Chevy he said this could be done but Dodges would take alot more work.

Here's what he came up with.

One switch on the dash of the truck to activate on/off
dimmer switch on floor or button on the wheel or where ever you want.

The switch on the dash would turn on this system which can shift your truck from 1st gear to reverse with the click of your foot or thumb, when your done you can just put the truck in park and it will be the same when you start it. It would be all electronic and very simple to use. Installation would require dropping the trans pan to change a solinoid.

I read both of the other threads about this and it got me thinking, even if i don't care to plow in OD or D how nice would it be to not have to shift all night, just use my left foot. And for those of you that only want to plow in 1st this would be perfect. The transmission shops won't like it but I'm suprised none of them have done this before.

So if he can make this work as perfect as he thinks he can, would you buy it? whats it worth? I am donating my truck for the "test" vehicle to make sure it works before he gets to far along, he said he needed one to play with for a week or two.


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

Ive thought about this in length. My hangup is the column shifter. You have to pull it towards you to unlock it to move.


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

beer really is brain food, the more you drink the smarter you get. What will prevent you from accidently hitting the button as you are cruising down the highway at 30 mph


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

This is about as good as it will get, and this is pretty cool. 
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/smart-shift/smart-shift-stand-alone/smart-shift.html


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

stroker79;867707 said:


> Ive thought about this in length. My hangup is the column shifter. You have to pull it towards you to unlock it to move.


with this system you would put your shifter in D or OD and not move it again untill your ready to park.


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

fireball;867717 said:


> beer really is brain food, the more you drink the smarter you get. What will prevent you from accidently hitting the button as you are cruising down the highway at 30 mph


You would have to hit 2 things to make that a problem, I guess we could use an aircraft switch.

No matter what we add you can't fix the human factor.


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

show-n-go;867798 said:


> with this system you would put your shifter in D or OD and not move it again untill your ready to park.


The only way to do that would be to unhook the linkage on the transmission. The trans will not shift into rev with the column shifter still hooked up.

And to answer your orginal question of weather I would be interested in this product? sure. But unless you eiminate the column shifter all together, it wont work.


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

hm.... I'll talk to my guy again. he said he can modify the solinoid and do it without moving the shifter. 

I'll find out today.


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## GatorDL55 (Jan 18, 2008)

I'll take one.


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

stroker79;867870 said:


> The only way to do that would be to unhook the linkage on the transmission. The trans will not shift into rev with the column shifter still hooked up.
> 
> And to answer your orginal question of weather I would be interested in this product? sure. But unless you eiminate the column shifter all together, it wont work.


I just talked to him.

He said all you would have to do is put the column shifter into drive then activate this system, after that you shift from F to R using only the one touch button. Then when your done turn this system off and your truck is back to normal. The linkage and column shifter have nothing to do with it.

He could even add a safety to it so that the trans will not shift unless the truck is at a stop, so that would also save the tranny from slamming gears for the careless drivers.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'd be interested in giving one a shot, if it's reasonably priced. 

Which trannies on the Fords? Just the TS?


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;868891 said:


> I'd be interested in giving one a shot, if it's reasonably priced.
> 
> Which trannies on the Fords? Just the TS?


I only had him look into the 3/4 and bigger but from talking to him i think it will work on any for or chevy. Dodge was the only one he would need to do more research on to make it work since there's is set up way different.


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

Thats the other thing i need to know. what do you guy's feel is a reasonable price? He keeps asking me that. I said i thought around $300-500 depending on how the final product looks/works. He wants to know that so he can see if it can be built for the price range that people will pay. It could be one of those things that cost more to make than the value.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

show-n-go;868905 said:


> Thats the other thing i need to know. what do you guy's feel is a reasonable price? He keeps asking me that. I said i thought around $300-500 depending on how the final product looks/works. He wants to know that so he can see if it can be built for the price range that people will pay. It could be one of those things that cost more to make than the value.


I'd give it a try for that amount.

Really would have a hard time placing a value on it until I tried it. I know I love the F\R lever in my Toolcat and JCB.

In fact, if I plow for a long time in either, then get in a truck, I am usually moving the turn signal lever trying to get my truck to go from forward to reverse or vice versa. :laughing:


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

I'm giving him my truck next Wednesday so he can get it figured out. I'll keep you guy's posted on how it works and if it will work in that price range.


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## TheMan (Nov 20, 2009)

I don't understand why the manual transmission keeps getting more and more rare? Has practicality taken a back seat to laziness in our work trucks?


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

TheMan;869083 said:


> I don't understand why the manual transmission keeps getting more and more rare? Has practicality taken a back seat to laziness in our work trucks?


I can't believe how many people i run into that can not even drive a manual. My dad wouldn't let me drive untill i could drive a manual.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

TheMan;869083 said:


> I don't understand why the manual transmission keeps getting more and more rare? Has practicality taken a back seat to laziness in our work trucks?


Completely off topic.

Saying we should all go back to manual shift transmissions would be right along the lines of saying we should go back to straight blades with manual angle. Better yet, no angle. plow to the right only. Chain fall to lift the blade. No vees. No powerplows. No wings, no end plates, no backdrag edges, no sno-foils or rubber flaps on top. Nothing but plain simple straight blades. Sure, they were reliable, but not very productive.

I think an auto trans in a plow truck is the epitome of practicality.....

I would be interested in the product.....


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## GatorDL55 (Jan 18, 2008)

TheMan;869083 said:


> I don't understand why the manual transmission keeps getting more and more rare? Has practicality taken a back seat to laziness in our work trucks?


My last truck was a manual and I have a bad shoulder from football. After a night of plowing, I could barely lift my arm because my shoulder hurt so bad. Don't get me wrong, I learned to plow with a manual and enjoyed it but automatic is sooo much easier.


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## TheMan (Nov 20, 2009)

show-n-go;870020 said:


> I can't believe how many people i run into that can not even drive a manual. My dad wouldn't let me drive untill i could drive a manual.


Same here, maybe thats why I'm so byist against autos?



2COR517;870033 said:


> Completely off topic.
> 
> I think an auto trans in a plow truck is the epitome of practicality.....
> 
> I would be interested in the product.....


While I agree this would be a good product to have in an auto a manual makes it obsolete. Aside from being able to shift to and from reverse with ease there are numerous advantages to a manual. Durability, longevity, less wear on your motor, more precise control exct...

some one pointed out earlier that its hard to shift from 1st to 2nd when pushing a load and I can see the old timers not having the body for that kind of abuse but I think the pros out weigh the cons


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## plowinginma (Oct 22, 2005)

It would be a multi Million dollar product.. It would catch on real quick.. Maybe some day would be part of a snowplow prep package.. Good luck!!!


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

TheMan;870099 said:


> Same here, maybe thats why I'm so byist against autos?
> 
> *What's byist?*
> 
> ...


PLEASE explain how a manual puts less wear on your motor...As for more control, I would argue that too. With an automatic, I can basically apply "pressure" as I'm stacking. With a stick you need speed, or ride the clutch. Either one is not good...

I'm not saying you can't plow with a stick, I've done it. But for most of us doing drives and small/med commercials, it's just not practical. The productivity increase with the auto far offsets the additional maintenance. Plowing roads, stick wins hands down.

And I think most of us would agree it's not the shifting, it's the clutching.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;868950 said:


> I'd give it a try for that amount.
> 
> Really would have a hard time placing a value on it until I tried it. I know I love the F\R lever in my Toolcat and JCB.
> 
> In fact, if I plow for a long time in either, then get in a truck, I am usually moving the turn signal lever trying to get my truck to go from forward to reverse or vice versa. :laughing:


I've done that numerous times. LOL


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## cold_and_tired (Dec 18, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;868950 said:


> I'd give it a try for that amount.
> 
> Really would have a hard time placing a value on it until I tried it. I know I love the F\R lever in my Toolcat and JCB.
> 
> In fact, if I plow for a long time in either, then get in a truck, I am usually moving the turn signal lever trying to get my truck to go from forward to reverse or vice versa. :laughing:


I would like to see the switch installed in the turn signal lever. Flip the main switch and it cancels the turn signal side and activates the shifting side of the lever. Flipping the turn signal lever for forward and reverse is second nature to us that run heavy equipment.

I think it would definitely be worth $300-500. Let me know if you need someone to test it for you. I'm willing to be a guinea pig.


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## spence212 (Nov 21, 2009)

TheMan;869083 said:


> I don't understand why the manual transmission keeps getting more and more rare? Has practicality taken a back seat to laziness in our work trucks?


Not laziness at all.....bad enough after plowing for 20 hrs straight shoulder and ass hurt like heck...but now you want my left leg to wear out too? 

Count me in....I'd be interested if its priced reasonably...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;870188 said:


> I've done that numerous times. LOL


Glad I'm in good company.

I think. 



cold_and_tired;870283 said:


> I would like to see the switch installed in the turn signal lever. Flip the main switch and it cancels the turn signal side and activates the shifting side of the lever. Flipping the turn signal lever for forward and reverse is second nature to us that run heavy equipment.
> 
> I think it would definitely be worth $300-500. Let me know if you need someone to test it for you. I'm willing to be a guinea pig.


No, then I'll really get confused. I'll be trying to use the turn signals in my equipment to shift F\R. :laughing:


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Hate to burst every one's bubble on this but manually "fooling" the PCM, TCM or shift range position sensors by "hot wiring" (so to speak) the internal shift solenoids via a switch and a few wires to gain a switch activated manual first and reverse gear range will not work. And for many reasons. 

Using a 4L80E for example since there's a zillion of them out there...

There are only two shifting solenoids in the valvebody that control certain (but not all) shifts. They would be the 1-2, and 2-3 gear range solenoids. And with a combination of either on or off activations of these solenoids you can command first gear, second gear, third gear and fourth. You CAN NOT command reverse, as the solenoids have no control over reverse, only the manual valve can perform that function. So, you have no means to electronically control reverse gear, because reverse is MECHANICALLY activated by the manual valve in the valve body. And what controls the manual valve in the valve body to command reverse? The column shifter.

Won't even get into the details of how you'd intend to send a command back to the ECM so that it will know that it's not in the gear it thinks it is (since the column shifter is still in the drive range position) so that it can control the line pressure properly for the gear its in (via the pressure control solenoid). Also like to know how you'll overcome the "gear ratio error" trouble codes that the ECM will set since you're in one gear but the ECM actually thinks your in another; since it will still also be monitoring the gear range position switch that's still indicating to the ECM that the trans is in the "drive" range, as the ECM does monitor both the input and output shaft speeds as well as the range selector switch and many other sensors on an electronically controlled trans to determine what's going on and what it should or should not be doing.

Bottom line, to make it work you have to shift the trans just as it was intended, externally. Either electrically or mechanically. 


Your trans guy may be a good or even exceptional as a rebuilder but he needs some education in the electronic functions and components (and their fundamentals) in an electronically controlled transmission if he feels it's doable by controlling the internal solenoids with a few wires and an in cab switch.


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## cold_and_tired (Dec 18, 2008)

How about using an actuator on the linkage itself? Aside from minor details, could you use an actuator to physically move the linkage and have the actuator wired into some kind of switch?

Is it even physically possible to modify an automotive style transmission to behave like that of one in a front end loader? Meaning the column shifter would still be used to select drive gears as well as park and having a separate switch to control forward and reverse.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

cold_and_tired;871596 said:


> Is it even physically possible to modify an automotive style transmission to behave like that of one in a front end loader? Meaning the column shifter would still be used to select drive gears as well as park and having a separate switch to control forward and reverse.


Please read the thread above yours.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

All this sounds similar to the push button transmission I had in a '59 Dodge. Buttons were mounted on the dash - upper left. Only car I ever threw a transmission out of.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

My parents had one of those. Referred to it as the "Poke and Hope"


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

2COR517;871615 said:


> Referred to it as the "Poke and Hope"


Wait, I thought a poke and hope was a... oh... never mind...


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## cold_and_tired (Dec 18, 2008)

2COR517;871599 said:


> Please read the thread above yours.


WOW. Thank you for your constructive input.


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

cold_and_tired;871596 said:


> How about using an actuator on the linkage itself? Aside from minor details, could you use an actuator to physically move the linkage and have the actuator wired into some kind of switch?
> 
> Is it even physically possible to modify an automotive style transmission to behave like that of one in a front end loader? Meaning the column shifter would still be used to select drive gears as well as park and having a separate switch to control forward and reverse.


That still wont work. You have to unlock the column shifter everytime the trans goes in or out of rev. The only way would be to manually unhook the linkage from the column each time you ant to control it electronically and even then you have have the dash indicator working.

I tried this already, trust me. I still have the box of parts I bought/collected to do it. B&B was right the first time and he is right this time too.

Here is the thread I started when I tried.
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=62818&highlight=push+button+shifter


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

cold_and_tired;871596 said:


> How about using an actuator on the linkage itself? Aside from minor details, could you use an actuator to physically move the linkage and have the actuator wired into some kind of switch?
> 
> Is it even physically possible to modify an automotive style transmission to behave like that of one in a front end loader? Meaning the column shifter would still be used to select drive gears as well as park and having a separate switch to control forward and reverse.


It's possible to control it externally yes, as we've covered in a few other threads previously. But it gets complicated (and expensive) fast to have both redundancy and reliability. I had a prototype setup working reliably a few years back using a weatherproof (<VERY important!) fixed position linear actuator, a small programmable control module and a toggle switch on the plow controller. It worked pretty well but it needed far more safety features built into it (with more cost involved) as it was far to easy to change gears by flipping a toggle. It needed a brake input signal to it to prevent a shift unless the brakes were applied but more importantly a speed signal input so you couldn't bump it into reverse or first while moving forward or backward at 15 MPH. Just as many modern transmissions have had both features in them for years.

So it's do-able, but far from inexpensive, easy or simple...


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## LUCKY 7 (Dec 9, 2008)

I think if I knew HALF of what B&B knows...... I'd be TWICE as smart as I am now!!


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

B&B;871548 said:


> Hate to burst every one's bubble on this but manually "fooling" the PCM, TCM or shift range position sensors by "hot wiring" (so to speak) the internal shift solenoids via a switch and a few wires to gain a switch activated manual first and reverse gear range will not work. And for many reasons.
> 
> Using a 4L80E for example since there's a zillion of them out there...
> 
> ...


This is spanish to me as I know nothing about transmissions. 
He started on this monday and as of this morning he had it working on his chevy but said he needed to adjust a few more things before he could put it to a few hours of testing. I'll relay what you have said to him.


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

Just curious if this is still being figured out?


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## emerson (Dec 29, 2009)

An auto trans has a clutch, it's the torque converter. Because it uses fluid the wear is heat instead of physical wear on the clutch (if it operates properly). Nowadays, our trucks are smarter than us, and usually that's a good thing. Autos that a strong enough are great.


2COR517;870163 said:


> PLEASE explain how a manual puts less wear on your motor...As for more control, I would argue that too. With an automatic, I can basically apply "pressure" as I'm stacking. With a stick you need speed, or ride the clutch. Either one is not good...
> 
> I'm not saying you can't plow with a stick, I've done it. But for most of us doing drives and small/med commercials, it's just not practical. The productivity increase with the auto far offsets the additional maintenance. Plowing roads, stick wins hands down.
> 
> And I think most of us would agree it's not the shifting, it's the clutching.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Whats so hard about shifting back and forth a few notches?


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## thesnowman269 (Nov 7, 2009)

plowguy43;944559 said:


> Whats so hard about shifting back and forth a few notches?


EVERYTHING! but I wouldnt know I plow with a manual


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## Blacksmith Cycl (Jan 22, 2011)

Did this ever go anywhere?


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## b&b landscapes (Nov 7, 2010)

yeah, i would like to know if this evr went anywhere from project idea


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## cturrisi (Nov 10, 2005)

Just found this while surfing the web....it is an aftermarket push button transmission controller. The site says it can be programmed to work on any transmission?

http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/smart-shift/smart-shift-parts-and-accessories/

------------------------------------------------
Chris
02 Dodge 2500 with Boss V-Plow
Salt Dogg SS Spreader


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## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

b&b landscapes;1210356 said:


> yeah, i would like to know if this evr went anywhere from project idea


It hasn't made it off the ground yet. My tranny guy got hurt and was off work for a little over 6 months so it got pushed to the back of the line until he gets caught up. 
He did do a ton of work on it but i am not sure if he got it working perfect and if the cost will be worth it.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

cubicinches;871645 said:


> Wait, I thought a poke and hope was a... oh... never mind...


Thought it was pull and pray


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## njsnowremoval (Sep 27, 2010)

Intrested to see if this is something that will work. let us know if he lets you know.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

You would think that one of the big 3 enginneers would simply put a delay in the electronic shifter that prevents the trans from shifting from F-R or vise versa while the vehicle is still moving as this seems to be the contention where most damage happens.


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## KSikkema (Oct 7, 2008)

Most electronic transmissions do have a delay between rev and forward. (if you actually do dare to try shifting before you stop). It won't make the vehicle completely stop before shifting, but there is a delay.


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## shott8283 (Feb 17, 2008)

stroker79;871841 said:


> That still wont work. You have to unlock the column shifter everytime the trans goes in or out of rev. The only way would be to manually unhook the linkage from the column each time you ant to control it electronically and even then you have have the dash indicator working.
> 
> I tried this already, trust me. I still have the box of parts I bought/collected to do it. B&B was right the first time and he is right this time too.
> 
> ...


not to butt in or anything but that isnt entirely true.

my 2nd gen dodge doesnt have a column shift lock. the only time its locked is when the key is out of ignition. i can move the shifter from P all the way down to 1 as fast as i want all day long with out pulling it towards me in any way.

so by right a stepped actuator would work for a 2 gen dodge. your out of luck for you ford and chevy buttheads.


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

shott8283;1250100 said:


> not to butt in or anything but that isnt entirely true.
> 
> my 2nd gen dodge doesnt have a column shift lock. the only time its locked is when the key is out of ignition. i can move the shifter from P all the way down to 1 as fast as i want all day long with out pulling it towards me in any way.
> 
> so by right a stepped actuator would work for a 2 gen dodge. your out of luck for you ford and chevy buttheads.


Then there's something broken or worn in your column - my 2nd gen needs to be pulled forward.
AND FWIW, the 2nd gen auto is mechanical into/out of Rev also as most transmissions do.
Sounds like the OP's tranny guy happens to have a completely electronic transmission in his vehicle - an oddity in trucks tho common in ultra expensive sports and luxury cars... wife's 01 intrepid has electronic control of D shifting however R is still mechanical.


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## Zigblazer (Aug 1, 2010)

This sounded interesting so I took a look at the 6sp allison I've got. I think I could do it with mine without even dropping the pan. Only problem is I don't have any reason to do so.


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

Actually, yes from some things I've been reading at another forum the Allison 1000 is essentially all electronically controlled which would make it a candidate.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

I've mentioned it previously but you won't command reverse electrically regardless of what trans it is, 4L80E, Allison 5 or 6 speed etc. To get reverse you have to physically move the shift lever to it.


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## Zigblazer (Aug 1, 2010)

There is only one circuit that gets pressurized in First that doesn't when in Reverse on the Allison 6sp. I don't know about the 5sp, I don't have the schematics for that. So when in First Gear (D) and the extra solenoids (namely PCS2 and SS3) are energized the extra circuit pressurized in First looses it's supply of fluid, and so the trans can be electronically shifted into reverse.

As far as the sensors are concerned, you only have to fool one sensor (PS4), and fool the TCM into believing you did shift into Reverse, and it will do the rest, no movement of the shift lever required.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Zigblazer;1254031 said:


> There is only one circuit that gets pressurized in First that doesn't when in Reverse on the Allison 6sp. I don't know about the 5sp, I don't have the schematics for that. So when in First Gear (D) and the extra solenoids (namely PCS2 and SS3) are energized the extra circuit pressurized in First looses it's supply of fluid, and so the trans can be electronically shifted into reverse.
> 
> As far as the sensors are concerned, you only have to fool one sensor (PS4), and fool the TCM into believing you did shift into Reverse, and it will do the rest, no movement of the shift lever required.


If only it were that easy. Study more and don't overlook the fundamentals and you should see why your "theory" above is skewed.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

.....................


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## Zigblazer (Aug 1, 2010)

You may have to explain why it wouldn't work. 
The way I see it is IF;
-You fool the trans into thinking you shifted into reverse by grounding the proper control circuits coming from the mode switch,
-And ground the PS4 L-GRN/BLK wire that is open when in forward gears.

THEN;
-The TCM will command the PCS2, SS2, SS3, and Main Mod Solenoids on causing the trans to go into reverse. Because the SS3 solenoid will move Shift Valve 3 causing flow to stop to the Selector valve disengaging the 1-2-3-4 Clutch Valve, and allowing the PSC2 circuit to engage the 3-5-R circuit.
-With one exception all the hydraulic flow would be the same, the PS4 circuit would still be pressurized, which is a sensor circuit only, which is why you ground the PS4 sensor wire making the TCM think there is no pressure in the circuit.

Please explain where I'm screwing up, it has been a while since I went through school.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

And how will be exhausting pressure from the 1-2-3-4 clutch valve instantly when you're ready to apply "reverse manipulation"? Simply stopping line pressure from reaching it won't do it.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

cretebaby;1254755 said:


> .....................


Mmmmm. Yummy.


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## 02powerstroke (Nov 7, 2006)

In my truck its R-N-D so its really no different than running a loader with shuttle shift.....


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

02powerstroke;1255001 said:


> In my truck its R-N-D so its really no different than running a loader with shuttle shift.....


It is quite a bit different.

It is on the wrong side of the wheel.


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## Zigblazer (Aug 1, 2010)

Because the selector valve is still in D the 1-2-3-4 clutch valve would exhaust through it back to the SV3 valve, where once it moves the pressure would be exhausted.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

While it may appear logical on paper you overlooked the clue to why it isn't that simple in use. :waving:


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## njsnowremoval (Sep 27, 2010)

hmm i feel like a manual is a cheap way of doig this. HAAHA


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## M & MD Lawn (Aug 29, 2010)

I am interested also, sounds like a good idea, 300-500 doesn't sound bad either


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## njsnowremoval (Sep 27, 2010)

yea id deffinetly still be intrested. Umm OP any updates?


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## Zigblazer (Aug 1, 2010)

I took a look at the 4l80e and from what I can tell, you can't switch from 1st to reverse without moving the selector valve, sorry it's a no go.

B&B, I still see no reason it couldn't be done with an Allison. Can you tell me where I'm misreading it?


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

its easy, take the lock out of the shifter and you push up and down. Or buy a manuel and it will be fixed!


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