# Newbie Snow Plow Questions



## bkw11 (Nov 28, 2016)

Hey everyone, nice site I found here!

As the title would suggest, I am interested in snow plowing. I have never done it before so I have a few questions if someone would be so kind to share their knowledge it would be greatly appreciated!

I'm just going to list them and answer them if you want (please excuse precise terminology of equipment, etc., as I'm still learning).

A little info:
I want to start out doing residential with my own truck (3/4 ton) and a 7' plow or larger. I might subcontract the first season to LEARN the business and mechanics, then next year I'll do my own contracts. I live in Chicago, IL. I looked up the stats and for 3" snow fall and there appears to be roughly 24.7 events on average here.

Here are the questions:

1. Some plows seem to go left/right electrically while others you have to manually position them. Which is better for residential? Does it matter?

2. What size plow do you suggest I should use for residential? I read 7' - 8' is best.

3. What salt would you recommend I use?

4. Any suggestions/comments you would have me know?

Thanks!


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

bkw11 said:


> I might subcontract the first season to LEARN the business and mechanics,


Go with this.

How old are you. You are going to need quite a bit of insurance and most people that are young will find it hard to acquire and stomach...

Get a plow at least 8 foot for your 3/4 ton. Smaller than that you will run over your own windrow. 8.6 is better. 7 foot is way to small for that truck.


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## dstifel (Dec 27, 2012)

What he said above.
Don't even consider a plow that is not fully hydraulic. 
Subbing for first couple years is a good idea. A few companies around here cover your insurance as well for a lesser hourly rate may be good for you as well.


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## bkw11 (Nov 28, 2016)

Thank you for the replies.

I'm 31 years old and could see myself really enjoying this type of work, headaches and all.

As far as the truck is concerned, I have yet bought the truck but am looking for a used for cheap just to plow with. I am willing to do 1/2 ton if that's all I need for residential but I was under the impression from what I read it's best to use 3/4 or higher for snow plowing in general. This is the first time I've read to go with 8' or higher if using a 3/4 ton. What size plow would you recommend for 1/2 ton pickup doing residential?

The insurance is 1300 annually for liability? I'm not sure (more than likely higher haha). That is something I can do. I expect overhead to be expensive as well.

Don't get anything not fully hydraulic? That's what I would expect, but didn't know just how much of a difference it makes doing it all from the cab, or not, residential.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Work for a company using there truck for a year or two first then if you like it look into getting a setup for your own.

Unless it's a REALLY old plow they all power angle left and right


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

bkw11 said:


> The insurance is 1300 annually for liability? I'm not sure (more than likely higher haha). That is something I can do. I expect overhead to be expensive as well.


Just my auto insurance to plow is $1100 for 6 months. This is not general liability insurance which you need also.


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## Dirtebiker (Nov 10, 2016)

He may be looking at a homeowner cheapie that is manual ?


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## bkw11 (Nov 28, 2016)

kimber750 said:


> Just my auto insurance to plow is $1100 for 6 months. This is not general liability insurance which you need also.


Noted. I'll look more into this. Thanks


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

dieselss said:


> Work for a company using there truck for a year or two first then if you like it look into getting a setup for your own.


Sorry, this is what I meant, but looked back at what you typed and thought that was what you had.

Diesel is 100% on. Try plowing in someone else's stuff the first time and see if you even really like it.

Snow plowing is something that is looked at as cool till you do it for many. It takes a rare breed to watch weather like it is god, looking out the window every hour, plan you life around a forecast that is never right, get up a 1am and run routes just to get up at 5 am to run them again, fix the stuff you broke just so you can go out again...

It will take a special type of endurance that is not got threw red bull but more inner drive... and lack of brains... 

Just saying if you don't have the truck or the plow, try it first... you are out nothing if you in fact hate it.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Well said........


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

bkw11 said:


> Hey everyone, nice site I found here!
> 
> As the title would suggest, I am interested in snow plowing. I have never done it before so I have a few questions if someone would be so kind to share their knowledge it would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> ...


Chk your avg events. Not sure if I read it correctly, but Chicago doesn't get 24.7 plowable events on avg.


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## jonc41 (Nov 28, 2016)

You definitely want a full hydraulic plow, the ones that go left and right manually are home owner grade and are meant to do one driveway, and even at that I don't recommend them. I would go with a 7.5-8 ft straight blade to start out with-less stuff to go wrong. I agree to plow with someone else's stuff for at least one year, I started out plowing with my neighbour and his truck back when I first got my license and then didn't do any for quite a while but then got the opportunity to buy a plow of my own a few years ago (already had the truck) and I'm going into my 3rd year plowing on my own this year. It definitely isn't for everyone I would try it first. Like someone else said above, you are constantly checking the forecast, waking up in the middle of the night to see how much snow has fallen, ect. As for insurance I'm not sure about your area but up here in Ontario it is a minimum $5,000 for commercial liability insurance and that's not including the truck insurance itself. My insurance company gives me a lot better rate because I only do residential rural driveways and I don't do salt, but they have to be the insurer of the truck as well as the business since the truck is the one that has the plow on it (with this particular company anyways)


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## bkw11 (Nov 28, 2016)

plow4beer said:


> Chk your avg events. Not sure if I read it correctly, but Chicago doesn't get 24.7 plowable events on avg.


Yes, I ilikely got this wrong...

(Side-tangent warning):

Chicago says it's average snowfall is 37.1" over the last 30 years. Taking a wild guess here, I'm going to say 15 plow events a year? So if I charge a minimum of ($50/residential * 20 contracts [hypothetically, of course]) = $1000/day....... So (1000/day * 15 events) = 15,000/season gross. This sound rright driving one truck? Just throwing random numbers around, I know...


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

bkw11 said:


> Yes, I ilikely got this wrong...
> 
> (Side-tangent warning):
> 
> Chicago says it's average snowfall is 37.1" over the last 30 years. Taking a wild guess here, I'm going to say 15 plow events a year? So if I charge a minimum of ($50/residential * 20 contracts [hypothetically, of course]) = $1000/day....... So (1000/day * 15 events) = 15,000/season gross. This sound rright driving one truck? Just throwing random numbers around, I know...


Im not in the Chicago land area, but I still would think 15 plowables "avg" is a little high....just guessing, but I'll say its closer to 10..??...

And 1 truck can easily handle 20 driveways....quite a few more with a really tight route. And again, I don't live there, but I do know traffic can really kill a guys time in cities like that.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Yeah last year we had what 1 or 2 plowable events here?


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

There are enough companies with trucks looking for drivers. As others suggested that would be the best way to start out considering it is already December and you dont have any equipment or accounts. And when you do get a plow it must be fully hydraulic if you want to make any real money with it. Just be careful the kind of shape a used truck and plow are in. You dont ant to get 15 accounts to have tour truck break down 3 houses into the 1st storm of the year.


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## bkw11 (Nov 28, 2016)

I see the importance of getting some experience first. Thanks again


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

If or when you decide to get a plow, post up pics first before you buy. every year guys buy a "good deal" only to find out its junk


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

dieselss said:


> If or when you decide to get a plow, post up pics first before you buy. every year guys buy a "good deal" only to find out its junk


Very true^^^^

Typically junk that is not even compatible with their truck too!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

dieselss said:


> If or when you decide to get a plow, post up pics first before you buy. every year guys buy a "good deal" only to find out its junk


I'll agree here also. I picked up a $700 plow for a 1/2 ton I had. Truck wasn't to par so I got a newer one. At this point I'm $3,321 in repairs/parts to get it to hook up and work on my other truck. That also done so include my labor. Buy new, it will be much better in the end.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

You lay out a scenario of $15,000 gross. Now wether those are accurate or not it doesn't really matter. Right off the top of that each year you have about $5000.00 for the needed insurance policies. You have maintenance and fuel, registration, advertising, etc. so let's say you get lucky and don't break anything and you just have to do normal maintenance for the year. That's another grand. Let's say the other stuff is another $1500.00. So that's a gross so far of 7,500.00. So over the 15 events you take in $500 each time. Not as much as it seems when first thinking about numbers. We haven't even started talking about buying the truck and plow yet. What happens if you only have 2 plowable events for the year like last year. At least that's what Philbilly remembers for last year. You would have a fixed cost pre season of 7,500.00 but you would only be able to bill for $2000.00. So you would be in the red $5500.00 for the year can you absorbe that? Just trying to give examples of how it really is out there, not discourage you from starting up a business.

There is also the way of life revolving around snow. Others mentioned it up top. Here is how my last couple days went for an example. National weather service put out a winter weather advisory for 12" of snow on Thursday for the storm coming through Sat. And Sunday. Calling for 2-4" on sat night and the rest on Sunday through Sunday night. On Friday hook up plow get everything loaded up cause you never know when it's actually going to hit. Saturday wake up storm is downgraded to 9" for the weekend. Saturday night it's snowing, not much sticking but there can be a big difference from one side of town to the other so head out for site checks at 9:30PM. Dusting of snow, cool can sleep a little. It's the weekend so schools won't be open so we won't have to run a full route. In bed at 10:30, alarm set for 3:30 am, I can start the route late since it's the weekend. Get up at 3:30, radar shows it's been snowing off and on all night. In the truck for site checks, no triggers met. Back home at 5 am. Up already no going back to bed. Snow starts sticking around 6pm. 9:30 Site checks again, triggers met. Get to bed at 10:30. Have to start the route at 3 am cause it's Monday morning so up at 2am. Plow until 11:30. Get home hour nap. It's snowing again. Back out at 9:30 pm for site checks. Lots are still good no triggers met. Finally get to sleep a full night. So that's like 7 hours sleep in over 48 hours to go make according to your numbers $500.00

I'm not complaining, this is what we like to do. It's just part of the job. That's why everyone is saying to work for someone else a couple years minimum to see if it's for you before you spend $5000.00 on insurance and pay who knows how much for a truck and plow.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

^ what? That is crazy talk.
Roomer on the playground is we don't show up untill 4hrs after we should, if at all.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

SnoFarmer said:


> ^ what? That is crazy talk.
> Roomer on the playground is we don't show up untill 4hrs after we should, if at all.


But for the low low price of $85 you can have the neighborhood kid come and shovel it and maybe do a ok job, but wait he scratched up the Beamer so I guess that was a bad idea too.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> But for the low low price of $85 you can have the neighborhood kid come and shovel it and maybe do a ok job, but wait he scratched up the Beamer so I guess that was a bad idea too.


By the way didn't see ya on here for a couple days. Did you get some snow to push?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

ktfbgb said:


> By the way didn't see ya on here for a couple days. Did you get some snow to push?


Yea, then made a beer run.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Thumbs Up


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## Foybles (Nov 13, 2015)

Residential is all about volume and speed. You will want as many clients as close together as you can get. Then work out a solid route so you can knock them out as fast and safe as you can. Not to mention you will want to work out all the details like who stakes the drive? Do you do the walks? What kind of salt/ice melt is to be used. Then you're going to need to understand spread rates and costs for forecasting usage. Learning how to do it right from someone who has been around is worth big $$$ down the road if you can avoid the mistakes that so many of us have made.


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