# 3 sites for subbing



## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

we are looking at these 3 sites to sub off a landscape company. we gave them a price for 2 of them. had a meeting yesterday and they gave us different prices and also a price for the 3rd site. we didn't agree yet, still thinking. im curious on what everyone else would charge. all 3 are seasonal.

#1 townhomes, they supply the skid and pusher, we supply the operator, 1 or 2 shovelers, salt, and fuel. during the storm only the road gets done. after the storm driveways and sidewalks are done. machine will take care of everything, truck will only come in to check on him and/or salt.

#2 townhomes, we supply the truck with operator, salt and fuel. the main road is town, we would take care of the little roads in front of the homes and parking lots, no driveways. during the storm only those roads gets done. after the storm the parking lots (circled in red) and the one sidewalk at the clubhouse (top right) gets done. operator can do the sidewalk. truck will take care of this and will most likely leave for other sites (possibly site 3).

#3 bank, we supply the truck with operator (possibly from site 2) salt and fuel. during the storm only the parking lot gets done. after the storm the sidewalks get done. the sidewalk on the main road is also ours, can be done with the truck. depending on the storm we can hit that sidewalk during the storm do to the state pushing everything on it.

the company said we can buy the salt from them and they are getting straight rock salt at around $70/ton. don't know what they would charge us for the salt. we do have $1000 worth of salt coming to us treated with ice bite. we sealed a local salt suppliers road and are exchanging for the salt.

again just curious on what you guys would charge for the season, November-march. the only extra labor we would have is the 1 or 2 shovelers and skid operator at site 1.

would like to see other new Yorkers prices to compare.
thanks guys


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

Anyone???
Let me also say they want us to change our insurance, I believe they want 2 million coverage with an umbrella (what ever an umbrella insurance is) we currently have 1 million.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Walk away how can walk not be kept open during storm 
You are open too much liability


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

ponyboy;1855403 said:


> Walk away how can walk not be kept open during storm
> You are open too much liability


Not us, it'll be on the landscape company but I agree.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

If not you why do you have to change your insurance 
It will be you


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

ponyboy;1855445 said:


> If not you why do you have to change your insurance
> It will be you


I dont know why they never said, guess they just want to make sure we are covered or maybe they are covered that way and want us to be the same. 
It will be them when the specs they sent us stating that all walks will not have 3 inches or more between certain hours, they said in person all walks are at the end, we looked at the specs again after that meeting and questioned them about, they said thats what they send the customers but we told you differently

ok fishy right there I know, so my dad told them listen if they come out pissed because its not getting done im not dealling with the b.s, the guy understood and said if any problems its on them (the landscape company) and will make changes if needed and will let us know.

right now this is the only option we got for work, the guy has been hounding us since july to get on board


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

I've been at this over 25 years if they are asking you to change your insurance they will hold you liable 
Something is shady 
You can write something up stating your contract between you guys make sure you state any slip and falls is in them may not hold up in court but might help 
They have a contract with their customers you get something to cover your ass they will hang you out to dry to cover theirs 
If you were not going to be liable you wouldn't need insurance but all subcontractors are responsible and need to be insured holding you liable 
Sorry to say it's the law


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

ponyboy i hear you. Just asked my dad about it and he said he will get it on paper stating the walks wont be done till later and signed. The second price they gave us we are trying to keep our insurance the same


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Most important thing is do u feel comfortable with the contract and going by their terms 
Please look up local laws on subcontracting 
I'm insured and all my subs are insured like you are 
When you are working on a site you are now open to responsibility and there for can be sued no big deal majority if time 
If feel good with contract terms good luck if you don't get them to sign your terms even if different from orginal contract hopefully your terms will be better like snow will better and show your work in a good light 
Always look out for yourself and everything can be negotiated


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

ponyboy;1855694 said:


> Most important thing is do u feel comfortable with the contract and going by their terms
> Please look up local laws on subcontracting
> I'm insured and all my subs are insured like you are
> When you are working on a site you are now open to responsibility and there for can be sued no big deal majority if time
> ...


apprecate it ponyboy. Hey to answer my origanl question what would you price? Just wanna see between our price, their price and other peoples prices. Thanks


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Pictures are tough for me to look at but I lay my subs 
$125 hour truck with salter 
$75 just truck 
$125 for skid he gets $3000 up front to leave in site and I get 30 hours included
Shovlers get $20 hour 
They are responsible for own gas and repairs and labor to run their equipment


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

We do a 4 hour min per storm most storms are 6-7 hours after storm ends to complete all 
And we start at 1 inch and plow whole storm


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

careful with that dodge, i was looking at working a deal like that this year, my uncle works for an insurance company and told me to stay away.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Subcontractors are fully responsible for their sites even if not stated in their contracts 
Check with your local towns but my town that is what I was told by local consumer protection office


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## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

First site - 2 hours start to finish. You will need/want 4 shovelers.

Site two: good luck not plowing the driveways. The cuts will run over. Need lots of lawn markers. You really need to find out if they have any time requirements. This could be a truck and cat along with blowers and 4-6 shovelers.

Site three: is obvious, check for the time requirements.

As for insurance it's common for companies to want to be named on your policy. It is either they want to be co-insured ( which I would never do ) or they just want to be notified by your company if the policy changes.

Make sure you get EVERYTHING clearly in writing. If they don't want to be clear and specific then your going to be screwed.


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## Doughboy12 (Oct 15, 2014)

Why would you buy the salt from them?
If they have a salt supply, have them provide it...plus what everyone else said.
My 2 cents...and is worth every penny...;-)


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

they want us to supply the salt. Which means they pay more.

And no need for blowers or shovelers at site 2. Machine would be nice but wont happen


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## Doughboy12 (Oct 15, 2014)

dodgegmc1213;1855803 said:


> they want us to supply the salt. Which means they pay more.
> 
> And no need for blowers or shovelers at site 2. Machine would be nice but wont happen


So you will buy the salt from them @ $70 and charge them $150 for putting it down...sounds good.


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

Doughboy12;1855806 said:


> So you will buy the salt from them @ $70 and charge them $150 for putting it down...sounds good.


no the salt is included in the seasonal price.

Ok ill post the pricing.
Site 1. We said $15k. They said $11k
site 2. We said $30k. They said $20k
site 3. They said $6k


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

dodgegmc1213;1855854 said:


> no the salt is included in the seasonal price.
> 
> Ok ill post the pricing.
> Site 1. We said $15k. They said $11k
> ...


Considering I got a bid from Brickman for a similar sized bank that doesn't seem horrible.

They were willing to pay $250 a month lol


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

Whiffyspark;1855858 said:


> Considering I got a bid from Brickman for a similar sized bank that doesn't seem horrible.
> 
> They were willing to pay $250 a month lol


i was shocked at how much they wanna pay for the bank. He said he can pay more on the bank to make up for the loss on the other two


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## Doughboy12 (Oct 15, 2014)

dodgegmc1213;1855864 said:


> i was shocked at how much they wanna pay for the bank. He said he can pay more on the bank to make up for the loss on the other two


That only works if it is an all or nothing contract...make it so they can't pull the bank and thus your profit.
I'd say you gave them your price, now it is up to you haw much profit you want to give them back.


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## Doughboy12 (Oct 15, 2014)

ponyboy;1855711 said:


> Pictures are tough for me to look at but I lay my subs


You do what to your subs? Is that considered a "benefit?"


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Lol pay my subs


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Most banks around here are around $3k
And lot one looks too good to be true number wise specially when they're supplying the skid and you're only something seems wrong good luck


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

So you are supplying 
1 operator 
1 truck and driver 
2 or 3 shovlers
Salt app 5 yards $350
10 hour storm lets says
Driver and operater $600
Labor $600 
Fuel $150
Total $1700 let's say $2000 a storm 
10 storms a year 
Costs you $20,000 on high side $ you will make $17,000 with 0 liability


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

all these lots they have year round so i dont know how they price them with the lawns


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

ponyboy;1855891 said:


> So you are supplying
> 1 operator
> 1 truck and driver
> 2 or 3 shovlers
> ...


For site 1?
Operator at $20/hr based on 100 hrs = $2000
2 shovlers at $15/hr based on 100 hrs = $3000
Lets say 10 yards of salt for the season at $150/yard (local supplier's ballpark price) = $1500
So theres $6500
They offered $11,000....that leaves $4500 for other expenses and profit.
but if the walks aren't done till the end of the storm then we can save some money out of that $3000


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