# taking advantage of elderly



## MIwinter (Dec 20, 2008)

so, today one of my customers calls me to plow/shovel for her. 5 minutes later her granddaughter called me to cancell for her, and said I did a VERY poor job and she got stuck in her drive and her husband had to shovel her out. I apologized and told her I would be there wintin a hour to plow her out for FREE to make it right. (customer is 91 and drives a car so she is very competent and active for her age) Her drive is 20 foot wide by 45 foot long that I plow, in addition to 5 minutes of heavy shoveling and 12 minutes of snowblowing, I have been charging $25!!! So I get there pooring down rain 8"slush in drive and sidewalks! I did it for free and her granddaughter "seemed" happy and told me I wasnt to plow her unless she ok's it in the future since shes too old to decide on her own. I really like working for the old lady dont make alot of money but I am making about a $20 profit since she is on main road and Im always in the area on my route's. I am probally going to not keep her as a customer due to her granddaughter telling me they got stuck in there 4x4 yukon in her drive 6 hours after I was done plowing it. I know for a fact i had it down to bare pavement when I leftt and there was no shovel marks where he supposidly shoveled her out. I also told them I would give her ONE more free plow whenever she wanted it and they thanked me for making it right. What would you guys do now? Maybe a snowplow blew street snow into their drive or my competetion who knows?

ps, something like this could make a REAL bad name for you, thats why I corrected it so they would be more than happy.


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## KGRlandscapeing (May 2, 2007)

I think thats the elderly taking advantage of u.


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## ColliganLands (Sep 4, 2008)

i was going to say the same thing. you did waht you could to make it right if they're still not happy drop them.
i had a similiar situation this weekend where we did one pass to open the drive and she called about 1 hour after flipping out becasue we didnt shovel or plow all the way back ( her car is parked at the end and she wont move it). i went right back out shoveled and explained we do a pass to open it so you can get in/out and if you want it pushed back you have to move the car (i dont want to be repsonsible for it). so it was resolved and she seems happy im going to finish the year for her and not re-new it next year i think.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

All you can do is what you think is right. Dont worry about the grand daughter. You know you did the right thing, Be happy.


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

If the grand daughter is so concerned w/ grandma, then why was 91 yr old grandma out driving in bad conditions in the first place...why didn't the grand daughter make arrangements to go get grandmas meds or whatever it was that was SO important. Sounds like grand daughter is over compensating by manipulating you, to cover where she may be lacking. I'd drop them like a bad habit and don't give anything else away for nothing...tell them that it's a snow region, get over it and get real and find someone else to manipulate.


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## cmo18 (Mar 10, 2008)

You did it right, I have a gentlemen who I chased him for about a 1 1/2 months and he kept saying ill call you back next week because he was trying to get a friend who owns 8 houses so I would give him a better deal. I never heard back from him. I drove by his residence during the past storm and noticed someone else plowing his driveway. It was no big deal to me, until we received 45 to 50cm, he calls me about 12 hrs after the storm when I was finished my route *****ing at me because I never plowed him out. He told me he thought its was me who plowed him out all the other times. In reality I think the he contracted realized his driveway is a 40$ shot because its very difficult and bailed on the jerk who wanted it done for 20$.. How would you respond to him? I just said "man, I never heard back from you, we never signed a contract and I'm full. Sorry, Merry ******* xmas..."


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

First off I would tell the granddaughter that unless she is the one paying the bill for plowing at her grandmas house, to butt out. 

Second, you are doing way too much free work. Not to mention are you nuts??? 5 minutes of shoveling, 12 minutes of snowblowing, and a plow for $25? That is way too cheap to begin with to be doing free work. 

Third, if you only plow when the snotty granddaughter tells you to, she is going to wait for large snow buildups that have been driven over repeatedly and noone will be seeing pavement for the rest of the year. 

Fourth, you are not going to get a real bad name because of one nutty, unreasonable granddaughter. Don't let her push you around. Remember, they need you more than you need them.


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## Milwaukee (Dec 28, 2007)

Unbelievable 

my great grandma live alone after her son died 3 years ago. She have good neighbor that will plow her driveway free. Her driveway are long 1/2 miles plus make spot for park cars. They been do for almost 10 years I can remember it.


She didn't complaint but just tell guy thank for plow our driveway. Several time it was late but she didn't complaint say where are you and you not finish plow our driveway.

Plus her family builds 4 houses so neighbors bought from her so they help her. But they do for free sometime she try give money but they refused because they know she is poor.


That granddaughter must be **** try save money by fool you. 


If it was me I would have them tell true because I do enjoy help old peoples if they lied to me I would tell them say Why you do that to save money didn't you know how much cost me to maintain truck with plow to do for you free. Then good lucky find new plow guy.


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## Niteman9 (Jan 6, 2007)

Is it getting to the point where you have to take a photo of every job when we are done?


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## Scott13136 (Dec 25, 2008)

coldcoffee;689550 said:


> If the grand daughter is so concerned w/ grandma, then why was 91 yr old grandma out driving in bad conditions in the first place...why didn't the grand daughter make arrangements to go get grandmas meds or whatever it was that was SO important. Sounds like grand daughter is over compensating by manipulating you, to cover where she may be lacking. I'd drop them like a bad habit and don't give anything else away for nothing...tell them that it's a snow region, get over it and get real and find someone else to manipulate.


you dont have anyone close to that age in your family do you? My grandpa is 87 still hunts and runs a trap line. He is the primary care giver of his 85yr old wife who has had Alshimers for 16yrs. Just try to stop them.


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

Yes I do, thanks for asking. You missed the point. I hope he doesn't use the traps that would require an animal to chew its own leg off.


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## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

KGRlandscapeing;689501 said:


> I think thats the elderly taking advantage of u.


This happens a lot I am 28 and I feel like anybody over 55 is taking advantage of me and I want to find a way to make sure they all die pennyless


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## 042500hd (Oct 10, 2004)

KGRlandscapeing;689501 said:


> I think thats the elderly taking advantage of u.


Ditto. You know you plowed it. 6 hours had passed since you were there. I'd drop them I have no patience for people like that.


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## Scott13136 (Dec 25, 2008)

coldcoffee;689938 said:


> Yes I do, thanks for asking. You missed the point. I hope he doesn't use the traps that would require an animal to chew its own leg off.


Yup, I guess I missed the point. You asked why a 91yr old was out in that weather. My point was try and stop them. And I hope they can't stop me when I am that old.


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## jb3nh (Jul 15, 2008)

I have a soft spot for older folks as well. Hold your ground with the grand daughter. I was in a similiar situation with doing some 'adjusted rate' work. The fact of the matter is, that if they drive you away, or you walk away from it, someone elce will get the job and charge the going rate. Do what makes you feel right with yourself but don't cut your own throat over it.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

Maybe I'm just too much of a hardass or something but I could give a rat's ass about their age when it comes to business. Whether they are 31 or 91 my costs are still the same. Don't get me wrong, I commend you for doing what you did and offering what you did but I think your shooting yourself in the foot. I like when elderly ask me for a seniors discount. I ask them if they get a discount when they buy gas. They always say no and I say "Neither do I"...

This family is going to take advantage of you. Dump them and move on with life.


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## BK Hammer (Aug 10, 2008)

Get this. I plowed this elderly ladies driveway all last year for 25 bucks per push. I'm there for fifteen minutes tops. Two backdrags, a little entry cleanup and done. There aren't even any sidewalks to do. So first decent snowfall of this season and I go and plow her drive. She calls a few days later and tells me that she has some young fellas who will shovel her snow and for me not to bother. Here is the kicker-I never even charged her last year or for the first plow this season. I mean it is _only_ a couple hundred I'm saving her. Anyway, she tells me to send her the bill for last season and the first plow this season. I'm totally floored---what elderly person does not want free snow removal. I swear I think I insulted her by giving this half blind old lady who doesn't even drive snow removal without being charged.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

So you charged her $25 per push but didn't charge her?


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## Captain (Sep 27, 2008)

I had 3 elderly ladies on my route. One is living on the edge, you call tell not many $$$ around. She actually broke here hip a month or so ago and has not been home since. I have plowed her out 3 times this year, and do not plan on charging her. She lives a just few houses down from me. 

The second is an old family friend - close to 90 I would guess. I normally only charge her $15, single wide only 40 feet long. She lives right accross the street from my dad. I plowed her 3 times so far and she came out and gave me $20 saying she knows it's worth more, but that's all she has right now. I'm good with that. 

The third one has money - last year she would race out to shovel her driveway before I got there. After driving there 3 times in a row last year, and her having it already shoveled, I didn't even bother going back.

First big storm this year and my phone was ringing during the storm - she left a message saying "I hope you still have me as a customer?" She has 5 grown up, adult children - I never even called back.

The first 2 I don't think they are taking avantage of me - they are paying what they can or can't.

The third one - who can afford plowing, I dropped as my travel time is just as important as plow time.


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## YardMedic (Nov 29, 2006)

Captain;693901 said:


> my travel time is just as important as plow time.


I find that a few customers take more time getting to & from than actually plowing the drive. You absolutely don't need that hassle!


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## Captain (Sep 27, 2008)

I've had a great route for the last 12 years - over half my customers are originals from my first year of plowing.

My total route only requires 15.1 miles (GPS is great), of driving and includes 17 driveways. A light snow, 3-5 inches I can have the whole route done in around 3 hours.

I actually just quoted one yesterday that is within my 15.1 mile route already, so that will bring me to 18 driveways without increasing my miles driven.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

Captain;693943 said:


> I've had a great route for the last 12 years - over half my customers are originals from my first year of plowing.
> 
> My total route only requires 15.1 miles (GPS is great), of driving and includes 17 driveways. A light snow, 3-5 inches I can have the whole route done in around 3 hours.
> 
> I actually just quoted one yesterday that is within my 15.1 mile route already, so that will bring me to 18 driveways without increasing my miles driven.


Do you get out and shovel walkways and sidewalks? Sounds like you only do the driveways if your getting that done in about 3 hours. Unless of course they are all close to eachother.


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## Captain (Sep 27, 2008)

I do driveways only - no shoveling. My neighbor also does plowing, and he offers shoveling of sidewalks and walkways. If I have a customer or quote that requires that service, I pass them onto him.

This year alone I gave him 4 new accounts.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

Captain;693983 said:


> I do driveways only - no shoveling. My neighbor also does plowing, and he offers shoveling of sidewalks and walkways. If I have a customer or quote that requires that service, I pass them onto him.
> 
> This year alone I gave him 4 new accounts.


Must be nice. Every driveway I do has shoveling included. It really slows ya down.


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## russ130 (Oct 29, 2002)

Taking advantage of the elderly. What a concept. 

Back when I was learning how to do door to door sales I was told by my instructor that old people are the toughest to sell. They have seen far more sales pitches than I have. They play helpless incredibly well but in reality they aren't so helpless. They value the dollar far more than it is really worth. And they just plain like winning these games since there really is nothing else in their lives for excitement.

So that is what I was taught. So for me I see the grand daughter as a tactic. Well played at that. You fell for it hook, line and sinker. Being Mr. Niceguy doesn't feed your family. Here is what you should have done. First tell them that you don't appreciate being called a liar. After all you did really go there right? Then offer to plow the new mess in their driveway at whatever rate you would charge for a final cleanup.

You got sucked in on this one and like it or not the score is, old lady - 1, you - 0. Unless of course you were never there to begin with and just lied to everyone here.

Do you seriously think this is as innocent as they want you to believe? If you finish plowing a driveway and it is spotless when you drive away, why would you come back and plow it again for free? Personally I think you either aren't telling the whole story, or we should give the old lady 3 points for a super con job, why else would you offer to plow another time for free and of their picking? Karma don't feed your family either.


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## jimaug87 (Feb 15, 2007)

Did it snow more after you left? I'm pretty sure you could have been able to tell if a city plow was to blame for the snow in the driveway. 

I'm just kinda lost to how u plowed to pavement and then went back to 8 inches??


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## russ130 (Oct 29, 2002)

jimaug87;694157 said:


> Did it snow more after you left? I'm pretty sure you could have been able to tell if a city plow was to blame for the snow in the driveway.
> 
> I'm just kinda lost to how u plowed to pavement and then went back to 8 inches??


That's exaclty why I said he doesn't seem to be telling the whole story. It just doesn't make sense, he wants us to believe he is some kind of saint plowing for free and all that crap. Things aren't adding up here and in my experience when things don't add up there is usually a lie being told. I'm not saying he is lying but someone damn sure is.


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## ahoron (Jan 22, 2007)

Blowing snow ??? Eight inches in 6 hours. Tell the granddaughter she is not the customer. Plowing it for free is good business in my opinion. She will tell a friend and you might get more business. If you had charged her again she would have told everyone that would listen. I've run into all types of people. The ones that tell you they are on a fixed income seem to be the cheapest. Old boss told me old people always think you are trying to screw them so now he does so everyone is on the same page.


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## russ130 (Oct 29, 2002)

ahoron - giving your service away for free is never good business. Good politics maybe but never good business.


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## 1pfieffer1 (Aug 27, 2007)

IMO it is the people with the most money that will try to cheat you out of it. Most of the good honest hardworking people out there would never try to screw someone else out of their just dues. They will only ask for what they can afford to pay, and make sure, come hell or high water, that they actually pay you. As far as giving it away, there are more important things in life than money. I have an elderly couple that lives down the street. He has kidney problems and has to go to dialysis every morning. She goes out and shovels the walkway and as much of the driveway as she can so they can leave. The town truck opens up the end of their driveway on his return trip so they can at least get out. I hit the driveway while they are gone, no charge, they have enough problems. They don't even know who does it for them but I'm sure they appreciate it considering their situation.


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## russ130 (Oct 29, 2002)

1pfieffer1 - I never said you should not do good deeds. What I said is when it comes to business you don't give away your product or services. To update that statement a bit I would add the clause unless it is for a charitable reason. Such as you do for the lady on dialysis near you. I also do several free opening of driveways for the elderly around me and have for well this is my 13th year here and I've done it every year. Even when I didn't have a plow or snowblower I did it by hand.

If you have an agreement with someone and they decide not to honor it anymore would you say that is ok and give your services for free? Does that sound like good business sense? That is what this thread is about not doing good deeds for people. After all the title of the thread is 'taking advantage of elderly' not 'should I help out the elderly'. You need to reread the original post this has nothing to do with an honest hardworking person wanting what they paid for. This is about a retired person utilizing her daughter to argue with the honest hardworking individual to get free work out of him. Please before you post make sure you read what has been said not just some of it.


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## 1pfieffer1 (Aug 27, 2007)

Easy there Sparky...........my response was my opinion on who I think is more likely to try to screw you out of something. Someone else had stated that "The ones that tell you they are on a fixed income seem to be the cheapest." and I was just rebutting that by giving my view based on my experiences over time. As far as not honoring a contract - by either party - yep, you are spot on - just bad business. 

And by the way, I did read the whole posting......as well as all the replys.


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## russ130 (Oct 29, 2002)

1pfieffer1;704432 said:


> Easy there Sparky...........
> *Name is not sparky, maybe your browser don't work right, could have sworn my name is Russ130 or you could even use Russ for short since that is my real name. Calling someone by any name other than their name is a huge sign of disrespect. You might notice although I didn't agree with your post basically because it needed a little clarifying, I never called you any name other than your screen name*
> my response was my opinion on who I think is more likely to try to screw you out of something. Someone else had stated that "The ones that tell you they are on a fixed income seem to be the cheapest." and I was just rebutting that by giving my view based on my experiences over time. As far as not honoring a contract - by either party - yep, you are spot on - just bad business.
> 
> And by the way, I did read the whole posting......as well as all the replys.


If you followed this thread then you should be able to see that the old lady is playing a game and trying to get more than she is entitled to. We have no idea if she was hardworking or not or if she is honest. We don't know all these things but if we did it might spell out the reasons for an exception. The lady that you clear her driveway for, did you charge her at any time before you realized she was on dialysis? If not, did you help her out like you do now?


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## hedhunter9 (Nov 15, 2008)

Ok, Im gonna get flamed for this..

But.

Whats age got to do with it ?
Do they get free gas from the gas company ?
Do they get free electric from the electric company ?
Do they get a free roof from the Roofers ?
(im not talking discount, but free)

You see where Im going ?

Its not about age. Its about the ability to pay....

And of course there will always be the guy (or gal) who will try and get something
for free even if they have a million in the bank. But that type of person has been that way
since they left home for the first time.

Now that said, There are old folks out there living on fixed incomes who didnt plan their
finances well, or had a trajedy in life that hurt their income producing ability and are living
hand to mouth, month to month. 

Then there are retired neighbors who planned well. Have a nest egg of couple mill. Everything 
paid for. Nice car. Travel several times a year.
Can afford to pay for plowing every time it snows.

So as we can see, there are many different situations out there.

Yes, I have a few I do for free. A couple neighbors. One guy on the way to work.(he never knows who did it). 
You can get the feel for people and will get to know who YOU would want to do for Free or not.


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## russ130 (Oct 29, 2002)

Well hedhunter9 I won't be the one flaming you. Like you say there are many different types and since we have no way of knowing what type is described by the OP. We can't pass judgement on anything to do with that really.

Here are a few of the things I am saying here.
1) Giving a product or service away for free except in the case of a charitable contribution is bad business.
2) I think its safe to say we didn't get the whole story from the OP.
3) Everybody should do a good deed, it shows character and will make you feel good about yourself inside for doing it.
4) If someone is a customer they are not a charitable contribution.
5) Old people aren't always helpless though some of them would like you to believe they are.
6) business is business

I think if the OP felt guilty (why I don't know) the most he should have done was taken care of it for a discounted price.


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

russ130;704482 said:


> If you followed this thread then you should be able to see that the old lady is playing a game and trying to get more than she is entitled to.


Why does it have to be the old lady playing the game? Anybody ever think that the grand-daughter might just be an overbearing controlling pain in the backside who already controls her grand-mother and now is trying to control the plowing that is done as well? I bet the grand-daughter has been that way all her life and the grand-mother has probably just given up on trying to tell her to stop the attitude. Only problem the OP had was when the grand-daughter decided to open her soup flap. It is obvious the real problem is the grand-daughter in this case.

Matt


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## 1pfieffer1 (Aug 27, 2007)

russ130;704482 said:


> If you followed this thread then you should be able to see that the old lady is playing a game and trying to get more than she is entitled to. We have no idea if she was hardworking or not or if she is honest. We don't know all these things but if we did it might spell out the reasons for an exception. The lady that you clear her driveway for, did you charge her at any time before you realized she was on dialysis? If not, did you help her out like you do now?


I have always helped this couple out, long before I knew what their situation was, and no - I have never charged them. I was taught to help out people in need as a child - I started out shoveling/snowblowing driveways for nothing so that my father wouldn't have to do it - ya, you guessed it - for nothing more than just helping out the elderly neighbors. I wouldn't think of driving by an elderly person who is trying to dig out of a big storm. I have seen too many people carted off to the hospital in a meat wagon to let my selfishness be the cause of the next collapse. And no, I never let them pay me, even when they offer something, which is usually more than they can afford - hense the shovel. Up here in Vermont we may be a different breed from the rest of the world - we do it just because it's right.

Now, on to the rest of your attitude...........you know what else is rude? Accusing someone of not reading the hole post, just because you don't like what they posted. Maybe you should read the whole post before you open your mouth - SHE isn't on dialysis, HE is, she goes out and shovels because he can't..... Or assuming that a little old lady is trying to scam someone when you don't have the whole story. And I'm really not sure how you can come to the conclusion that "If you followed this thread then you should be able to see that the old lady is playing a game and trying to get more than she is entitled to.". Nowhere in this tread does it say she is playing a game other than when you said it. There are a limited amount of facts coming from the OP about a grand daughter of a client interacting with a contractor. You have no idea what is really going on, and to make an accusation about an old lady running a scam of some sort is, well, just plain "rude" as you say. I sure hope you don't look at everything that comes down the pipe with the same attitude as you do in this thread, because if you do it's no wonder "your not lost", people must tell you where to go a lot.


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## russ130 (Oct 29, 2002)

I'm gonna be nice here. This is the last time I will be nice to you. 

Where is all this experience of yours coming from? Oh wise one. 

Ever hear of Ma Barker?

Did you learn all this stuff about people out in the sticks?

Obviously you have no experience dealing with people, no real experience anyhow. Out in the woods people are different than in the city but the last I checked Kalamazoo was a city. So all your experience is of no consequence here. 

I still say the old bag is scamming and using the grand daughter as a tool to accomplish that. Its my opinion which I am drawing from a lot more knowledge and experience than you have. I see more people every single day than you will in the next year. I think its safe to say my judgement on people would be far superior to yours. Oh by the way I am older than you as well so I guess I have more experience overall than you too. If you where to come down to my neighborhood you couldn't make it til midnight. If I went to your neighborhood I'd be fine since the animals in your area can't shoot back. So maybe I know more what people are capable of than you do. It would be funny to watch you try and survive til midnight though lol. 

My attitude? I bet you never get lost either. Tell you what I'll give you directions there.


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

russ130;705452 said:


> I'm gonna be nice here. This is the last time I will be nice to you.
> 
> Where is all this experience of yours coming from? Oh wise one.
> 
> ...


WOW. You are full of it aren't you? Thinking that you smarter and more experienced than somebody you have NEVER met much less even talked to.

Attacking my knowledge and experience based on where I live is just plain rude and ignorant. I NEVER attacked you in my post, only stated my opinion from my real experience dealing with people. Just because other people do not agree with you does not warrant that type of attitude. Then you even attempt to act superior to people who live in the country as opposed to living in the city. Did somebody relieve themselves on your cheerios this morning? Seriously, what is wrong with you? Talk about a "huge sign of disrespect".


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## 1pfieffer1 (Aug 27, 2007)

russ130;705452 said:


> I'm gonna be nice here. This is the last time I will be nice to you.
> 
> Where is all this experience of yours coming from? Oh wise one.
> 
> ...


Nice? You haven't been nice since you started posting......

Experience.....20+ years as a career firefighter/EMT.....20+ years as a contractor......20+ years as business owner.......

Ma Barker was a criminal - along with her kids - Her parents were hardworking people with ethics.

Last time I checked Denver was a hell of a lot bigger than Springfield MA, about 4 times bigger......Ya Denver Colorado..used to live there, way back in 1964, July I think it was, somewhere around the 13th - MY BIRTHDAY - which makes me older than you by the way, I can help you with the math if you want. I moved to where I live now after I injured my back doing CPR on a 2 year old boy......and because I wanted to get away from people in the big city - people just like you.

Experienced and knowledgeable? I have a college degree, work in government, own and operate 2 different businesses. I have built my own homes - all of it - soup to nuts. I can repair every vehicle I own - all 9 of them - no matter what it needs. I am a certified SCUBA diver, have been in burning buildings where it is 1500 degrees, been burned, had parts of buildings collapse on me, had to pull dead bodies from fires, auto accidents and even plane crashes, done CPR on bodies so injured it the were more like jelly, moved bodies from accidents without body parts.......and oh ya, I have brought 3 people back to life with CPR, 3 out of god knows how many. I have also gone to the houses of little old ladies, at 3:00 in the morning - Christmas morning - under the pretense that their smoke alarm was making funny noises and they didn't know what to do. There wasn't any problem, they just didn't want to be alone on Christmas. And you know what, it didn't bother me, I have family to go home to, they had nobody. I suppose you would say she was scamming us too........oh well.

Experience & knowledge - I think I'm covered.

Wise one? I know when to shut up.

ussmileyflag


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## 1pfieffer1 (Aug 27, 2007)

MattR;705471 said:


> WOW. You are full of it aren't you? Thinking that you smarter and more experienced than somebody you have NEVER met much less even talked to.
> 
> Attacking my knowledge and experience based on where I live is just plain rude and ignorant. I NEVER attacked you in my post, only stated my opinion from my real experience dealing with people. Just because other people do not agree with you does not warrant that type of attitude. Then you even attempt to act superior to people who live in the country as opposed to living in the city. Did somebody relieve themselves on your cheerios this morning? Seriously, what is wrong with you? Talk about a "huge sign of disrespect".


Thank you Matt. I thought for a moment it may have been me who was in the wrong.

Have a nice day.


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## russ130 (Oct 29, 2002)

MattR - I never responded to anything you had to say so not sure where you are coming from.

1pfieffer1 - Your profile here says you are 43. Only reason I checked is because you seem to think you are superior to me for some reason. My name is still not Sparky either. You obviously can only communicate in condescending terms. As I stated in my first post on this thread I was professionally trained on dealing with people and being able to read them. You where trained on CPR if you were a firefighter or emt, you never say which you were just that you been in burning buildings. So I would say you have more experience in CPR than me. I think everyone here would have no problem with that assumption. Why is it that your training qualifies you and mine means nothing. You think you know people but you really don't. I do because I was trained and trained extensively by the way on how to read people. Your CPR training was what 5 hrs every year. My training was thousands of hours every year. I've seen the little old lady gag hundreds of times. You probably have too just you never knew it. I know not every old lady is trying to get away with something that would be preposterous. I was also the first one on this thread to point out that things don't add up. Why? Training! If a house were burning down you would be the one to call. If someone is scamming or suspected of scamming I would be the one to call. I may not know all the scams but I can damn sure see when one is happening. Take the original post, first the old lady is very competent then she's not competent enough to decide when to plow. Seriously does that add up for you? How about the alleged shoveling but yet no shovel marks. How's that adding up for you? Stuck for 6 hrs in a 4X4 in 8" of snow. Can you add that? Now put them all together and what does it all add up to? Lies! Now let's look at the other side of this. The OP plowed and shoveled and probably snowblowed for free something he says he already did. Does that sound right? Then offers to give them a free plow in the future of their choosing. How's your math coming on that one? Add that up and what do you come up with? Guilt! Why? I don't know training could never cover that anyhow. Personally I think, and this based on years of experience, the OP has guilt because he doesn't think his time is worth what he is charging. I think we have all been there before especially in any service business. I mean seriously you have never bid a job and had it turn out to be a walk in the park. Did he do the right thing? For him yes because to him it was right and can sleep at night knowing he did what was right to him. Everybody else here is offering ways for him to sleep without giving away free labor. Like pointing out they were not completely honest with him. I know myself if someone is lying to me I won't do nothing for them and I'll sleep just fine. I was not the first one to say he was being scammed, that happened on the very first reply. Up til I chimed in everyone was assuming it was the grand daughter. The fact that you called me Sparky shows that you think too highly of yourself, so much that you feel it is alright to degrade someone for no reason. Your outlook as to how people are really is a back woods way of looking at things. Why would someone have 9 vehicles and 2 businesses and not be in business to make money? A college degree doesn't mean you are smart or even intelligent. I had a lot of friends in college that can prove that to you. In fact why all the qualifing anyhow? The only thing you can't qualify is how you would know people better than me. Unless of course during your scuba lessons they went into extensive training on how to read people. Don't kid yourself my training was every bit as serious as any training you underwent. Of course the only life's to be affected if I didn't take it serious were my family's and my own. And just so you do know I was the leading salesman while I was there. Interestingly enough your neck of the woods is where I did all my sales and also in NH. So as far as Matt would be concerned I actually do know what I'm talking about since I have a very good knowledge of the way people are in that area and how the population in that area is. I'm going to end this with a bit of useless info for you to ponder but it does give a slight insight as to how in depth my training really was. Did you know that owners of a certain color of blue house (not to be named) will buy anything? So if you have a blue house and salesmen are always knocking at your door I suggest you paint it promptly.


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

russ130;705883 said:


> MattR - I never responded to anything you had to say so not sure where you are coming from.


Where I am coming from is this. I live out in the country. I am also younger than you. And you also made a statement that you did not think it was mainly the grand-daughter trying to control when plowing was needed like I mentioned. Put all three of those together and I think even you would have thought the same thing as I had. My apologies if I thought you were referring to me, yet I am sure some of you can see where I would have thought that.

Regardless of who you were talking to, arguing over who is right and who is wrong, or who is more superior than the other, is IMHO just a waste of bandwidth. Would people be arguing about this if we knew our customers would read this? I doubt it. So lets show everybody how smart we are by stating your own opinion about the original topic and leave it at that.We are all here to either help out or be helped. So lets all have a  and relax, who knows, we may all get along fine.

Matt


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## chcav1218 (Jul 31, 2008)

...I'm pretty sure all firefighters are EMT's also. just my two cents. Also, who gives two s***s about who the manipulative one was....drop them.


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## 1pfieffer1 (Aug 27, 2007)

If defending myself from the likes of you makes me seem superior, so be it, I never discounted your qualifications - only stated mine after you questioned them and went all "high and mighty" on me.

I have only one question for you............do you always have to be right? I would think that you would be exhausted at night, after all, carrying the weight of the world around on your shoulders all day you must be exhausting.

"Sparky" bothers you but "Oh wise one" and "the old bag" are OK for you to use......interesting. I do believe that makes you a hypocrite in addition to being rude.

Hypocrite - "a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings", just so you know........

I do know one thing for sure...........you need professional help, you are wound way too tight.

Have a nice life..........I've wasted far too much time on you.

wesport

PS. I sincerely apologize for allowing myself to get caught up in the high jacking of this thread and to anyone who had to endure any aggravation caused by doing so.


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## PLOWMAN45 (Jul 2, 2003)

so if they live in a really nice house and they have a driveway that long enough for a plow you have to charge the only people driveway i will do for free if they need me are the retired nuns 
across the way that if the plow guy breaks down


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## russ130 (Oct 29, 2002)

Matt I'm sorry if I offended you it was not meant to be that way what so ever. Truth is I'm tired of the way people are in the city myself and do plan to move way out in the boonies as they are referred to. I was simply trying to show how someone that does live out of the way may not understand how people in cities act. And yeah the grand daughter being the culprit was and probably still is the general concensus. I have no problem with that I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong. I'm simply saying what if it is the old lady and then showing how it could be. I had no problem with your first post here none what so ever.
Does anyone really think the old lady or the grand daughter were not up to something?


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## huss691981 (Dec 20, 2007)

Well I know I am going to stir up a hornets nest here but......

First, just an observation, not claiming to be better, or wiser, or bigger, or stronger than anyone on here, but going through the many posts on here, I shure do see russ fighting with a lot of people. Fighting about how he can read people better, plow drivers in NY or CN which ever it was don't salt or drive 55. Just asking, not trying to start anything but, have you everthought that maybe the reason is you do try to sound bigger and badder?

Not all firefighters are EMT's. Some are just firefighters, like me.

I am sure russ has spent more time at job training than CPR class. By thousands of hours per year, how many is that? If it is 1000, that means you spent 19.23 hours per week in training? When do you sleep man?

As far as bad business, I agree with both of you. If you give things away, then you are, well giving away services for free. That's bad, we all know that. On the other side of the coin is giving things away, now and then, can be a great tool to help you grow your name. If you do it too much back to what russ said. However, word of mouth can kill you. I agree somthing sounds fishy with the op but understand why he felt he needed to clean it up for free.

I hope I haven't caused too much trouble, just adding in my say. IMHO

Mike


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

Just like huss, this comment is coming from a mere observer.

I am younger than both of you, and lack any resemblence of OJT, college, business, etc etc.

But to me, sounds like BOTH Russ and pfiefer are little too egotistical. You both seem to think you're training outdoes the other, same with experience. IMO, you both should just back off each other, and agree to disagree. It's America, we're allowed to do that.ussmileyflag

As to the OP, if I were you, I'd talk directly to the customer, and skip the liasion. In my small amount of experience, words and meanings usually get really jacked up when there's somebody acting as a go-between between the consumer, and the contractor. If it feels right to you to do it for free one more time, do it. If it feels like they're too much of a pain in your behind, and you feel it's right to drop them as clients, do it.

Basically, is your business. Though it doesn't help much in the way of advice, do what you feel is right for you and your business.


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## huss691981 (Dec 20, 2007)

in regards to Krieger91.... AMEN JESSEY!


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

russ130;706046 said:


> Matt I'm sorry if I offended you it was not meant to be that way what so ever. Truth is I'm tired of the way people are in the city myself and do plan to move way out in the boonies as they are referred to.
> 
> 
> > I am over it and all is well on my side. As far as living in the boonies... I never regret moving out of the city. I will warn you though, there are still people that will piss you off out in the country too, they just live farther away...lol.


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## russ130 (Oct 29, 2002)

I just thought maybe an apology would be in order. But I guess its ok to call people names on this forum so I sure won't hold back anymore. That pillow biter can keep any apology he might have said and shove it where the sun don't shine. As for the rest of you I could really care less what you think about me and never will. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it!


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## qualitylawncare (Jan 16, 2004)

blah blah blah... Lets all make a New Years Resolution to actually utilize this site, the way its intended to be. None of this sh*T would ever happen if this was a face to face business conversation, unless you simply can't control yourselves in public either. Talk like business owners, not like a group full of 1st graders... You can't read a thread on this site anymore, without finding an entire section of it, filled with arguing and stupid comments. My $.02 for the day.

Signed,

Tired of the BS


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## paradise1229 (Jan 5, 2009)

Niteman9;689757 said:


> Is it getting to the point where you have to take a photo of every job when we are done?


Just by me being a newbe, I probally would, even with date and time just in case. Also protects from future calls saying "you left marks, or you broke something"


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## pongow26 (Dec 19, 2008)

qualitylawncare;711589 said:


> blah blah blah... Lets all make a New Years Resolution to actually utilize this site, the way its intended to be. None of this sh*T would ever happen if this was a face to face business conversation, unless you simply can't control yourselves in public either. Talk like business owners, not like a group full of 1st graders... You can't read a thread on this site anymore, without finding an entire section of it, filled with arguing and stupid comments. My $.02 for the day.
> 
> Signed,
> 
> Tired of the BS


I agree they make chat rooms in yahoo for BS like those two are going on about


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

paradise1229;711716 said:


> Just by me being a newbe, I probally would, even with date and time just in case. Also protects from future calls saying "you left marks, or you broke something"


That's probably a good idea, just to cover your a$$


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