# strobes on constantly???



## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

Guys...

what is the deal? I see commerical guys driving around constantly from one plow site to the next running their strobes/beacons etc.

What gives?

I love my strobes I want to be seen for saftey sake when I am plowing...but...there is no need to have them on when you are just driving down the street to your next location.

If we run them all the time then they become like car alarms...everyone ignores them....then what good are they?

Just something I have seen more recently and now more prominenty with many operators now having more lights then many Fire Trucks.

Others thoughts? 

Pet Peeve of mine


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

I never run mine on the road unless visibility is very poor. A guy down the street from me has a pickup or two and several dump trucks and whenever they are out plowing it seems that thier lightbars are on. I passed a few guys today who had thier grill strobes/leds on but I think they just forgot to turn them off since they were not reflecting off anything to show that they were on from the cab.


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## dirtmandan2 (Nov 2, 2007)

mine are on from start to finish... otherwise i forget about it and leave them off... whether its 3 in the morning or 3 in the afternoon people could care less if your there and dont notice you anyways...


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

against the law to have them on in maine unless your in the process of actually plowing that causes you to enter or exit a public way. You are not supposed to have them on while on a public way driving unless your plowing it.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Ya, this has been discussed a bunch of times. What Bri says is true in most places.

Yet, funny you mention it, because I was noticing in our area lately a real rash of people with them on while driving down the road. Agree it will be like car alarms etc.... ignored.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

After hours of it, I just zone it out and forget that they're even on. Every single time I get home I get out and walk up to my front door, only to realize I forgot to turn off the lights.


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## Plowin in VT (Dec 7, 2007)

The only time that I intentionally keep them on when not plowing is when driving down narrow dirt back roads. Some of them are barely 1 1/2 cars wide, and I want to make sure that anyone coming at me sees me ahead of time.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I plow small streets and courts for a municipality and I never shut mine off form the time I clock in there to the time I leave there. It is better to leave them on all the time than forget to turn them on when you need them.

When I am plowing lots, most of the time I leave them off and just have my twirly light one, then when I do the entrance to the lot, I light the truck up.... like a firetruck.


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## IC-Smoke (Feb 15, 2008)

at night I will remember to kill the lights but durring the day I just forget about it and they usually stay on unless I see the reflection in building windows or something.


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## Avitare (Sep 22, 2007)

*Michigan law*

I researched this last year when I saw many trucks with-out lights.

Michigan permits plowers to have and use amber strobes ----for plowing.
The State requires County and State trucks to have and use strobes.

I believe there was language that prohibited the use of strobes for just driving.
And I believe the restriction was to avoid confusion by some people that may
think you are an emergency vehicle.
Volunteer fireman and doctors need to alert drivers that they need to 
travel un-obstructed to an emergency -- but they are restricted to such instances, too.

We all have used the strobes in poor visibility. I would be dumb to get hit in a blizzard
when the strobes could have prevented it.

I think guys need a lighted switch inside to show they have the strobes on.
Leaving them on is not doing us a favor. If the State desides the permit is being
abused or there are complaints-- we may lose the option !!

Can you imagine what would happen if volunteer fireman drove around with their
strobes on all the time ??

jmo
tc


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Avitare;532329 said:


> I think guys need a lighted switch inside to show they have the strobes on.
> Leaving them on is not doing us a favor. If the State desides the permit is being
> abused or there are complaints-- we may lose the option !!
> 
> ...


Very Good Point!


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## DBL (Aug 27, 2005)

i make sure my guys only run them when they need to be seen we have hideaways in 2 of our trucks and light bars on the other 3 and they know when and when not to use them


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

It is just another thing that gives a little expression of being "cool". I agree it is a joke that some run around all the time with them on. Most of the veteran plow guys around here run a simple single strobe and the newer image conscious type have the fancy newer lightbars etc. I am not knocking them but it is pretty easy to go overboard on lights not to mention I like to make money plowing not spending it on a traveling Christmas tree.


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## J&R Landscaping (Dec 25, 2005)

I run mine when I'm plowing or if I'm on the isde of the road not moving. Most of the time, having your 4 ways on don't do nothing...people will stop behind you and honk because your not moving.


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## Blazin (Mar 18, 2007)

N.H. just passed a law you have to have a permit to have them on your vehicle. I forget to turn them off 90% of the time. I run a single strobe on my pickup and two one on top of each mirror of my 1 ton. The dump body would hide a single one from the rear.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Not sure I understand people forgetting to turn them on... turning them off, I agree, I'm sure we've all done that a time or two when we're tired (light up switches help prevent that)... but turning them on? Thats part of the job, when you start to work you alert people that you are working by turning on the lights. Not really a good reason to leave them on all night/day. You don't forget to turn on the wipers when it starts raining, do you?

As for poor visibility (extreme), or other reasons, there will always be extraordinary circumstances where extra visibility is a good idea. For example, the other night I used mine to slow traffic at a three-car accident on a major country road (dark) until emergency crews could arrive, because people were still just flying thru. With the strobes and lightbar on, it actually worked, people slowed to a crawl thru the scene then proceeded. I left once the police arrived. Last thing I wanted to see was injured people, still strapped in their cars, hit yet again because other drivers didn't realize it was an accident until they were in it... then wipe out because it was so slick.

...but for just driving around, especially in the daytime, it seems so much more like a macho 'look at me' type of thing. And no one cares, so why bother?


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

My amber strobe go on from the time I start working till the time I finish. If its snowing or I have a salt load my blue light is running as well. There are NO laws against this here and to be perfectly honest, I will do anything to make my big black truck visible. People dont pay attention anyways as someone else here pointed out. You can be stopped on the side of your road with your flashers on with people honking behind you to go. 

When I stop on the side of the road with my hide aways, my blue light and my LIR3s flashing no one dares to honk at me to resume. 

As for them becoming ordinary because of overuse.... I dont agree. I know may not have been plowing for too long but I have lived here as a driver and passanger for many many years. When you see an amber flashing light you know that its some sort of service vehicle and to be a bit more aware. Here in Toronto when you see a flashing blue light you KNOW that it is a snow or salt vehicle and to be more aware. I dont think it matters how many you see on a stormy night your not going to forget what they mean. We see flashing red lights all the time that doesnt mean we will get used to them and when a firetruck or police car is racing up behind us we will just go on are merry way?????

Last point..... as for people that as you say "go overboard" with there lights.... why the heck not? If you pay a lot of money for your truck and you are proud of it why not make it look cool???? If you have the money to spend on 'gadgets' for your truck and you want to POWER TO YOU. 

Sorry for the rant, I just get tired of people spouting their opinion as the only alternative.

JMO


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## Blues Man (Mar 1, 2008)

I do know in Michigan that it is illegal to run with your stobes on. I was given a ticket for impeding traffic. In the spring and summer Im the guy everybody hates (orange barrels) if your strobes are on more then a mile after the construction zone they can write you up for this as i was told traffic was still backed up because they saw the lights. Winter i think they are more forgiving because there is usaully less traffic plus the cops dont wanna get out of there car in the cold.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Oasis;532571 said:


> . You can be stopped on the side of your road with your flashers on with people honking behind you to go.


Why do you think that is? Because people use them for everything. Some people even drive with them on. So everyone igores them. Same happens with the strobes. Don't believe it? Try plowing a parking lot thats open and busy... and see if anyone cares about your strobes, or even backup alarm.

Think about it. When I was in highschool (graduated in '96, ugh..) I was one of the only guys to have a pair of subwoofers in the car. Back then, if people heard the bass wayyyy off in the distance, they would turn around to figure out what it was, because only a few people had it and it was 'different'. When is the last time you even looked up if you heard a car coming with a big stereo? Why? Because its become common, almost normal to have, so you ignore it. Same will happen (and is already happening) with the strobes.



Oasis;532571 said:


> .
> Sorry for the rant, I just get tired of people spouting their opinion as the only alternative.


Its not just opinion, in most places its illegal. I'm not sure if it is here or not... but common sense says that if I'm NOT a hazard (ie: driving with traffic, not against it, for example) I shouldn't have my hazard lights on. Strobes are for hazards. Just having equipment on the truck does not constitute a hazard... except in extreme whiteout conditions when people rely on the lights to tell them where the extremities of the vehicle are, or aren't in the case of a plow truck.

If strobes are on all the time, well, frankly we may as well all throw them away because people will just look past them.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

derekbroerse;532583 said:


> Why do you think that is? Because people use them for everything. Some people even drive with them on. So everyone igores them. Same happens with the strobes. Don't believe it? Try plowing a parking lot thats open and busy... and see if anyone cares about your strobes, or even backup alarm.
> 
> Think about it. When I was in highschool (graduated in '96, ugh..) I was one of the only guys to have a pair of subwoofers in the car. Back then, if people heard the bass wayyyy off in the distance, they would turn around to figure out what it was, because only a few people had it and it was 'different'. When is the last time you even looked up if you heard a car coming with a big stereo? Why? Because its become common, almost normal to have, so you ignore it. Same will happen (and is already happening) with the strobes.
> 
> ...


Your OPINION is your OPINION and just that. I dont agree with you. We are not talking about car alarms or sub woofers that people choose to ignore. When you see a big flashing light in front of you you look. I dont care how many times youve seen it YOU STILL LOOK. Maybe its a cop? maybe its an emergency vehicle? Maybe he poses a danger to me? You still look to see what it is.

As for a hazard. When Im driving around with 3 tons of weight in my box plus a half ton dangling off the front, whether Im plowing or not I am a HAZARD to you. If you cut in front of me and I hit you you will DIE. No questions asked. That quite a potential hazard. Until the Highway Traffic Act (since I see you are from Ontario) states that it is ILLEGAL to use strobes or flashers then come Heck or Highwater when im on the job im gonna run them!!!!!!


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## AbsoluteH&L (Jan 5, 2006)

Fight nice KIDS!!! 96 OMG You EACH have an opinion, so whats the big deal?!
I have my one and single roof strobe on from start to finish. I have never been bothered by police for it, nor have I heard of any one else. Even those that can compete with a Firetruck.
By the way, I do look up when I hear a loud boom car stereo, It's so I can take aim  Man do I hate that crap!!:realmad:


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## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

glad/sorry I hit such a sore contiguous subject for many.

First my F-550 has a huge whelen Strobe Bar on it. Very pricey very visible. It however is not on unless I am actually plowing, salting or causing a impediment to traffic or if some other weather conditions really require it. Yes if I have to hog the entire road traveling down it with my wide plow...then too I will use it. But just normal traveling from site to site etc it is not necessary to have it lit up. 

To say hey I'm on the clock so consequently the lights are on seems rather simple and incorrect. 

Now some guys that have the really dim little beacons and/or old gum-ball lights that have very little lumen's I can see forgetting...they really don''t do much. But for those of us who have super high intensity strobes how the heck can you forget them....they are darn bright and almost annoying save that they may save you from an accident. 

Heck I see guys fueling as gas stations or stopped at coffee shops leaving their truck lit up like Christmas. 

My opinion is if we over use our lights they will be ignored more and more. I don't want to be ignored when caution is needed I want people to respect the lights and stay back...

if we all practice a little restraint and common sense in warning strobes usage... it will help us all be safer in the long run. 

Dave

ps. now when my front-end loader is operating in any public area or roadway...its strobes are on full tilt....people have no idea about their abilities and/or lack thereof so if its moving it is a hazard and needs to warn people.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Oasis;532595 said:


> Your OPINION is your OPINION and just that. I dont agree with you. We are not talking about car alarms or sub woofers that people choose to ignore. When you see a big flashing light in front of you you look. I dont care how many times youve seen it YOU STILL LOOK. Maybe its a cop? maybe its an emergency vehicle? Maybe he poses a danger to me? You still look to see what it is.
> 
> As for a hazard. When Im driving around with 3 tons of weight in my box plus a half ton dangling off the front, whether Im plowing or not I am a HAZARD to you. If you cut in front of me and I hit you you will DIE. No questions asked. That quite a potential hazard. Until the Highway Traffic Act (since I see you are from Ontario) states that it is ILLEGAL to use strobes or flashers then come Heck or Highwater when im on the job im gonna run them!!!!!!


Red lights, like on intersections and fire/ambulance/cop cars, we are trained from childbirth to STOP.

Amber, we are also programmed to know means continue, under caution... but we all know what people think caution is--take a look and keep going. Want proof of that? How many cars in a ditch per snowstorm... and how many say they were driving cautiously? Theres a big stink in St. Catharines right now at a construction site on the QEW because people won't USE CAUTION or slow down and there are tons of amber strobes there. Cops lowered the speed limit and are handing out tickets, people still won't use caution!

Green... means GO. Maybe thats why everyone ignores the volunteer firefighter's lights?

Blue... Snow in ontario, nothing in most places.... cops in some... Only us in Ontario know what blue means. Everyone else ignores it totally.

Strobes/rotators/beacons in general have already been overused to the point of uselessness (other than red because if they don't stop they may get a fine or worse). Its already too late.

And, no, you are NOT a hazard on the road by definition. Does every dump truck or tractor-trailer have strobes on them? They can cause death just as easily as your truck and blade! Hazard means driving alot slower than traffic, alot faster than traffic, or in a different direction than traffic... or stopped in traffic. Somehow interfering with standard traffic flow. Other than that there is no need to have strobes on!

As snow plowers, we have strobes on when working because we are moving slower than traffic (ie: plowing roads), different direction (backing into roadways, for example), or throwing salt. It has nothing to do with the three tons of salt you loaded on the truck... or the blade on the nose. Both are irrellevant as long as you move with traffic.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

AbsoluteH&L;532609 said:


> Fight nice KIDS!!! 96 OMG You EACH have an opinion, so whats the big deal?!
> I have my one and single roof strobe on from start to finish. I have never been bothered by police for it, nor have I heard of any one else. Even those that can compete with a Firetruck.
> By the way, I do look up when I hear a loud boom car stereo, It's so I can take aim  Man do I hate that crap!!:realmad:


I'm not the slightest bit upset. Its a discussion forum, and we should be able to voice our opinion, thats what its for.

See a few posts up from a guy who got a ticket for having it on. Now you've heard of one.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

SD-Dave;532648 said:


> To say hey I'm on the clock so consequently the lights are on seems rather simple and incorrect.
> 
> Now some guys that have the really dim little beacons and/or old gum-ball lights that have very little lumen's I can see forgetting...they really don''t do much. But for those of us who have super high intensity strobes how the heck can you forget them....they are darn bright and almost annoying save that they may save you from an accident.
> 
> ...


I agree with you completely.

To overstate the obvious, the loader has them because it is slower on the roadway, and turning/crossing paths with others on the jobsite. Absolutely run the strobe full time there... THAT constitutes a hazard by definition.

Wish I could find a proper definition online for a road hazard but I'm on dialup so its next to impossible to find anything.


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## KGRlandscapeing (May 2, 2007)

i have oval leds the point straight back and i have a dual 55watt whelen rotater on top of the bar. the leds i forget about sometimes because enless its dark or there is something refective i cant see them. now the whelen on top sucks my amps down and it refelcts off car windows house windows people glasses its just dang bright. that i dont forget about.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

derekbroerse;532649 said:


> Red lights, like on intersections and fire/ambulance/cop cars, we are trained from childbirth to STOP.
> 
> Amber, we are also programmed to know means continue, under caution... but we all know what people think caution is--take a look and keep going. Want proof of that? How many cars in a ditch per snowstorm... and how many say they were driving cautiously? Theres a big stink in St. Catharines right now at a construction site on the QEW because people won't USE CAUTION or slow down and there are tons of amber strobes there. Cops lowered the speed limit and are handing out tickets, people still won't use caution!
> 
> ...


As for Blue meaning snow in ontario... I live in Ontario and therefore thats the only place that matters to me in this particular aspect. Its just simple to say I dont agree with you and nothing will change that. Like I said I may be new to plowing but Im not new to the roads. No matter what you are driving if I see a flashing amber light I will pay extra attention to you and wonder why you may present a hazard to me. As for my little truck.... Yes I do present a hazard when I am fully loaded. First off, salt easily flies off the back of the truck and that doesnt matter how much you load or overload. Secondly, maybe not in Niagra Falls but here in Toronto people have a tendency of cutting you off even more in hazardous weather conditions then usual. Simply said if you cut me off I can not stop as readily as the little Toyota Camry you are driving..... If I hit you yes it may be my fault and yes Ill probably get a ticket and yes my insurance may go up but if you die because you cut me off I wont feel bad because I WARNED YOU. I am a big truck with flashing lights meaning SOMETHING. I have heavy equipment and can not move as easily as you. If Im driving at 80 kmh down highway 7 and you cut in front of me and slam the brakes on your are now in jeopardy of being driven THROUGH.

Maybe this is just an issue where people have to agree to disagree.......


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## DBL (Aug 27, 2005)

using the lights driving down the road will have "the boy who cried wolf effect" when you really do need them


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

DBL;532686 said:


> using the lights driving down the road will have "the boy who cried wolf effect" when you really do need them


I agree, if you are constantly driving down the road with full light bars and all your strobes going then yes it may begin to dull their effects. I said that during my plowing hours I have my LIR3 ambers running. When carrying large salt loads I automatically flip my blues on and when Im plowing depending on where I am or if I will be interacting with traffic I may throw my hide aways on.

I do not believe this constitues overuse of lights.

MY OPINION
not right .... not wrong....
My OPINION


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Oasis;532684 said:


> As for Blue meaning snow in ontario... I live in Ontario and therefore thats the only place that matters to me in this particular aspect. Its just simple to say I dont agree with you and nothing will change that. Like I said I may be new to plowing but Im not new to the roads. No matter what you are driving if I see a flashing amber light I will pay extra attention to you and wonder why you may present a hazard to me. As for my little truck.... Yes I do present a hazard when I am fully loaded. First off, salt easily flies off the back of the truck and that doesnt matter how much you load or overload. Secondly, maybe not in Niagra Falls but here in Toronto people have a tendency of cutting you off even more in hazardous weather conditions then usual. Simply said if you cut me off I can not stop as readily as the little Toyota Camry you are driving..... If I hit you yes it may be my fault and yes Ill probably get a ticket and yes my insurance may go up but if you die because you cut me off I wont feel bad because I WARNED YOU. I am a big truck with flashing lights meaning SOMETHING. I have heavy equipment and can not move as easily as you. If Im driving at 80 kmh down highway 7 and you cut in front of me and slam the brakes on your are now in jeopardy of being driven THROUGH.
> 
> Maybe this is just an issue where people have to agree to disagree.......


Agree to disagree is perfectly fine, but its still a discussion forum, hence the discussion.

Salt should not be flying off your truck loaded, overloaded, or otherwise if you are not spreading it. Your load is supposed to be contained and covered as per MTO regulations.

You can load your 3/4 ton until the tires burst and still not be as heavy or need as long to stop as an empty Kenworth and trailer. They don't need strobes driving down the road, and neither do you.

People will cut in front of you regardless. Human nature wants to be first in line. Not sure why. Personally, I'd rather get there 5 minutes later and still be alive and intact, but hey maybe I'm the weird one.


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## Mike S (Feb 11, 2007)

I got hit one time because I did not have them on when I was turning in to a location. I also got pulled over in a level 3 by a sherif who told me to "put my lites on you idiot!" He said that joking but he also said that I should use them during low visibility. I told him I was not clear on the laws about that stuff and didnt want to take a chance. He said I was fine a long as I used good judgement. I think good judgement is the main thing. In grid lock the lights are not needed. 12 hours after that happened we got slamed with more snow and I was ask by a cop to plow him to a EMS that was stuck and then plow them to a location! Through red lights, stop signs and all! I was glad to help during that storm but my lights have help me and other to be benifical. I also will forget to turn them off some times after a 60 hr push. They are very good when you get into a accident because the cops give the person a hard time that they hit you!


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

I turn mine on at site and leave em on until im done, while out of the truck/parked too.

Ive had my little tiny rotator on full time on the street, its not that noticeable anyway.

My Whelen Liberty bar would most likely piss off the cops even because its so damn bright, its pulse LED will reflect on signs down the highway over a mile away, at least that i can tell so far. Ive only left them on full time while driving when conditions were pretty poor.

Last week we had a smaller 3" storm that i was out early in the morning through noon time on just commercial lots, i left em on the whole time since some people get out of your way or will opt to NOT pull out in front of you and then spin out, sometimes it works the opposite too 

I dont give a @#[email protected] what other people think, i have a truck full of salt, a spreader thats hanging off the back and a bigger V plow on the front. Do they pay my commercial insurance and plowing insurance, NO, so they can go piss off if they dont like the lights on my trucks. Either go faster, get out of the way or dont follow on my arse and they dont have to worry about the lights anyway.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

Ramairfreak98ss;532726 said:


> I turn mine on at site and leave em on until im done, while out of the truck/parked too.
> 
> Ive had my little tiny rotator on full time on the street, its not that noticeable anyway.
> 
> ...




well said


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## Exciteable (Nov 20, 2004)

It's the EGO....
EGO lights is what I call them.
No need to run down the road with them on, it's just the old "Look At Me, I'm Important" syndrome.
(Just look at some peoples advertisements under their postings here)

I've been running for 25 years with just a single beacon and or strobe, no problems


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## LTL (Jan 13, 2008)

Only run the storbes when I am actually plowing, never run the hazards unless I am stoped in an wierd place or stuck. If it is really bad out I will run the rotator when I am driving. Can't stand when people drive around in the middle of the day not plowing with the sun shining and strobes, hazards, rotators, wig-wags, headlights, spotlights going.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Exciteable;532749 said:


> It's the EGO....
> EGO lights is what I call them.
> No need to run down the road with them on, it's just the old "Look At Me, I'm Important" syndrome.
> (Just look at some peoples advertisements under their postings here)
> ...


I could not agree more.


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

Oasis;532571 said:


> When I stop on the side of the road with my hide aways, my blue light and my LIR3s
> 
> post up some pic's of youre truck&light's.i have been wanting to put hid-aways in my new truck.. did you do it yourself? how long did it take?





derekbroerse;532583 said:


> When I was in highschool (graduated in '96, ugh..) I was one of the only guys to have a pair of subwoofers in the car. Back then, if people heard the bass wayyyy off in the distance, they would turn around to figure out what it was,
> 
> in 96 how many cell phones and dvd players were in car's ? i am guessing that there werent that many
> 
> i herd that all the highschool kids are now putting strobes on top of thier truck's to look cool......no huh? well maybe it's just a emg. veh. thing


at any rate..all of my driver's are instructed to leave the lights ON untill we get back to the shop or other meeting place....yes it is for a "look at me" (what else are the light's for) most of my equipment/trucks have wheelen edge bars and some even arrowstick's and other's with rear led's, when i am out plowing and i see another blast of amber light's coming i enjoy to see my trucks out there, with the name on the trucks like a bill-board.... i have even gotten job's because of my trucks  imagine that!

RICK


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## Young Pup (Aug 13, 2004)

I leave mine on from start to finish. Think about it, you have a deadly weapon on the front of your truck. I want to been because of that. To me it makes sense. I have a light bar, no strobes in the headlights or tailights though.So the lightbar is on constantly.


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## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

Oasis;532571 said:


> My amber strobe go on from the time I start working till the time I finish. If its snowing or I have a salt load my blue light is running as well. There are NO laws against this here and to be perfectly honest, I will do anything to make my big black truck visible. People dont pay attention anyways as someone else here pointed out. You can be stopped on the side of your road with your flashers on with people honking behind you to go.
> 
> When I stop on the side of the road with my hide aways, my blue light and my LIR3s flashing no one dares to honk at me to resume.
> 
> ...


Amen to this. I always have my dual blue Halogen rotators on start to finish. Some stuipd morons flash me but I don't care, I want my big black truck seen. I don't leave my TIR3's on unless I am pulled over as they are blindingly bright at night.

Cheers


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## LTL (Jan 13, 2008)

Young Pup;532807 said:


> I leave mine on from start to finish. Think about it, you have a deadly weapon on the front of your truck. I want to been because of that. To me it makes sense. I have a light bar, no strobes in the headlights or tailights though.So the lightbar is on constantly.


They outlawed 50cals mounted to front ends out here about 5 years ago.


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## KGRlandscapeing (May 2, 2007)

edit that was ******** a plow is deadly end of story its better to be safe then sorry i cant see telling somebody to turn them off when they drive. i think its better that u teach ur guys to have them on. its better to be seen and be anoyying then to be unseen.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

Lynden-Jeff;532822 said:


> Amen to this. I always have my dual blue Halogen rotators on start to finish. Some stuipd morons flash me but I don't care, I want my big black truck seen. I don't leave my TIR3's on unless I am pulled over as they are blindingly bright at night.
> 
> Cheers


LOL Thanks Jeff


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

powerjoke;532774 said:


> at any rate..all of my driver's are instructed to leave the lights ON untill we get back to the shop or other meeting place....yes it is for a "look at me" (what else are the light's for) most of my equipment/trucks have wheelen edge bars and some even arrowstick's and other's with rear led's, when i am out plowing and i see another blast of amber light's coming i enjoy to see my trucks out there, with the name on the trucks like a bill-board.... i have even gotten job's because of my trucks  imagine that!
> 
> RICK


Back then, two of my friends carried cell phones. One, because he was part owner of a business, the other because he wanted to be like the first. People thought they were drug dealers... used to stop and stare. Who even takes notice of someone with a cell now? Yet another example of how things become ordinary and no one pays attention to them anymore? You just illustrated my point once again.

I had a CD player at home, but the car I had a Yamaha pull-out deck with cassette! 

Not sure what you are trying to say... technology changes so sure we all upgrade as we go. But we still use things for what they are meant for. They had light bars then, too, but because they have better ones now we all have to run them full time? 

The kiddies are putting strobes, neon, and LED's on their car's undercarriage, exhaust tips, and even shifter knobs. Should they be listed as road hazards too? (OK the way some of them drive, they sure should be, but thats another topic)

Its simply called "Too Much Of A Good Thing". I want my lights to show and protect me while I am in danger of being hit, not just rolling down the street. Doesn't help if the guy behind me gets tunnel vision from watching my strobes all the way up the street then rear-ends me when I slow to a crawl to drop the blade on an entrance. So I turn it on a few seconds before I make that move--it wakes them up and they KNOW I'm about to do something potentially hazardous to them.

Let me put it to you this way: Driving with the strobes on down the road is just as bad as the old guy on the highway driving with his turn signal on--you never know if he already lane changed, is about to, or put it on by accident.  And he is probably more of a road hazard than you are! BUT it accomplishes the exact same thing. It defeats the point of the signal. You are doing the exact same thing, and aren't even over 70 yet! LOL


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## plowman4life (Jan 16, 2008)

ive got 2 full size lightbars. both are whelen edge 9000s one is 6 strobe with 4 halogens. and the other is 8 strobe with 4 halogens. 

when im driving down the road with the plow on during/after a storm i leave on the halogens and just them them go on and off slowly like they do so people can see me i don't do it to be cool or pull the look at me thing i do it so i can be seen. i don't care if it is snowing real hard they stay on i don't care if its not snowing. if i have my plow on the halogens are on. then when i get to a customers house/parking lot i have to plow i light the thing up like a Christmas tree.

i see plenty of people that just leave them on all the time. i dont see a problem with it and i dont pay any less attention to them. if im out at 3am plowing i want other people to have their amber lights on. not necessarily all of them but i like to know whos working and whose coming home from a late night.

i do admit anyone who leaves all thier dam lights on is a bit excessive but at least leave on something to mark your vehicle.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

plowman4life;532946 said:


> i do admit anyone who leaves all thier dam lights on is a bit excessive but at least leave on something to mark your vehicle.


Thats what marker/clearance lights are for. Pretty sure every vehicle produced since the mid '50s has them. They come on when you turn on the headlights.

Aren't some of you the same guys running the strobes the same ones who complain about Daytime Running Lights?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Oasis;532595 said:


> Your OPINION is your OPINION and just that.
> 
> As for a hazard. When Im driving around with 3 tons of weight in my box plus a half ton dangling off the front, whether Im plowing or not I am a HAZARD to you. If you cut in front of me and I hit you you will DIE. No questions asked. That quite a potential hazard. Until the Highway Traffic Act (since I see you are from Ontario) states that it is ILLEGAL to use strobes or flashers then come Heck or Highwater when im on the job im gonna run them!!!!!!


If your a hazard then take it off the street, running your lights does not make you any less of a hazard.

You are supposed to only run your lights when engaged in snow removal, not because your vehicle is over weight.

Lights on or not you hit someone it is your fault.

Most of you who run hideaway strobs are illegal to, as they want your warring lights to be above the roof line so you do not blind other drivers with your egoistical light displays.

You are a snow plow not a cop,firetruck or an ambulence.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

Lynden-Jeff;532822 said:


> Amen to this. I always have my dual blue Halogen rotators on start to finish. Some stuipd morons flash me but I don't care, I want my big black truck seen. I don't leave my TIR3's on unless I am pulled over as they are blindingly bright at night.
> 
> Cheers





SnoFarmer;532969 said:


> If your a hazard then take it off the street, running your lights does not make you any less of a hazard.
> 
> You are supposed to only run your lights when engaged in snow removal, not because your vehicle is over weight.
> 
> ...


you need to remember this is a regional thing. whats illegal in your city/state/country isnt illegal in my city/province/country.

and i didnt say my truck is overweight i just said it takes me longer to stop. and no im not a cop or firetruck but i do provide an important service with heavy equipment.

lastly i didnt say if i hit someone its not my fault... all i said was if you cut me off and i cant stop in time.... ya its my fault but im not gonna feel bad because I WARNED YOU 
but thanks for your opinion!


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## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

SnoFarmer;532969 said:


> If your a hazard then take it off the street, running your lights does not make you any less of a hazard.
> 
> You are supposed to only run your lights when engaged in snow removal, not because your vehicle is over weight.
> 
> ...


Another thing, and I will assume that you do not do alot of backing out on to busy streets with all the larger lots you do, especially in OASIS's case, hes working down town T.O and backing out on to streets is dangerous, and really how can you go overkill on lights to make your self as visual as possible? We arn't plowing in the sticks here!


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

Lynden-Jeff;532981 said:


> Another thing, and I will assume that you do not do alot of backing out on to busy streets with all the larger lots you do, especially in OASIS's case, hes working down town T.O and backing out on to streets is dangerous, and really how can you go overkill on lights to make your self as visual as possible? We arn't plowing in the sticks here!


Thanks Jeff....

Ya I guess I should have mentioned that most of my driving and plowing is done Downtown Toronto (population 3.5 million give or take a few hundred thousand) with a big number of blind drivers......


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Oasis;532972 said:


> you need to remember this is a regional thing. whats illegal in your city/state/country isnt illegal in my city/province/country.
> 
> and i didnt say my truck is overweight i just said it takes me longer to stop. and no im not a cop or firetruck but i do provide an important service with heavy equipment.
> 
> ...


Your Canadian law is not that much different than ours

It is ego that makes people think that they are an OFFICIAL emergency vehicle, so I can run my lights.
It makes them feel important.

You should slow down if you are so dangerous.
Running your lights does not shift the responsibility.

Just like the accent lights Derick mentioned it is illegal to run them because it is distracting to other vehicles.

If you like to make a spectacle out of your self that is your business but remember only kids under 12 will think your cool.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Lynden-Jeff;532981 said:


> Another thing, and I will assume that you do not do alot of backing out on to busy streets with all the larger lots you do, especially in OASIS's case, hes working down town T.O and backing out on to streets is dangerous, and really how can you go overkill on lights to make your self as visual as possible? We arn't plowing in the sticks here!


Thats the point of the thread. Run as many lights as you want WHILE YOU ARE PLOWING, not on the street driving to the next job, or Tim Hortons.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Lynden-Jeff;532981 said:


> Another thing, and I will assume that you do not do alot of backing out on to busy streets with all the larger lots you do, especially in OASIS's case, hes working down town T.O and backing out on to streets is dangerous, and really how can you go overkill on lights to make your self as visual as possible? We arn't plowing in the sticks here!


If he is actively engaged in snow removal then turn on your lights.
IF" not turn then off it does not matter if you are downtown or in the country.


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## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

SnoFarmer;532987 said:


> Your Canadian law is not that much different than ours
> 
> It is ego that makes people think that they are an OFFICIAL emergency vehicle, so I can run my lights.
> It makes them feel important.
> ...


Sorry but its not an ego thing, if I could go sit around in a mall parking lot making videos I woulden't need lights either, but we work in the city, during all hours of the day, constantly backing out on to busy streets. If I want to feel important, ill go make some videos and post them on plow site. tymusic


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Couldnt attach a poll here, so check out:

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=59769

Should be interesting to actually get numbers. I'm betting the %'s are pretty close between option 1 and 2, I doubt many people run nothing.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

SnoFarmer;532987 said:


> Your Canadian law is not that much different than ours
> 
> It is ego that makes people think that they are an OFFICIAL emergency vehicle, so I can run my lights.
> It makes them feel important.
> ...


Mr. Snowfarmer....

This is a forum to voice opinions not to spout your gospel. I have never said Im shifting responsibility by lighting myself up. In fact I mentioned several times I use them so they can see me as a warning that Im here. I know that if I hit someone its my fault. But after i pay my premium increase I wont feel bad if i plowed through your car because I made every effort to tell you that Im big and that Im tired and that I have a lot of equipment on my truck and MOVE.

The laws of my country/province are quite different from yours. Not anyone here can run around brandishing AK 47s........ just as an example. When you become an expert in the Ontario Highway Traffic Act you can tell me its illegal. Until then its your Opinion... for what its worth.

Thank you,
A Happy Plower


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## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

derekbroerse;532992 said:


> Thats the point of the thread. Run as many lights as you want WHILE YOU ARE PLOWING, not on the street driving to the next job, or Tim Hortons.


I don't know how Niagra is differen't but everywhere else around here (Hamilton/Burlington) 99% of contractors leave their lights on DURING incliment weather including myself. I want to be seen, people are crap drivers in the snow so I am of course going to leave my blue light on, not my backrack lights, just my blue light. I don't know why everyone has to get in a tizzy about it, why should you really care!


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

superplower to the rescue!!!!!!


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Lynden-Jeff;532994 said:


> Sorry but its not an ego thing, if I could go sit around in a mall parking lot making videos I woulden't need lights either, but we work in the city, during all hours of the day, constantly backing out on to busy streets. If I want to feel important, ill go make some videos and post them on plow site. tymusic


Jeff, I don't think you're getting the point. Its not whether or not to have lights, its a question of when is the right time to use them.

Some want to run them all day and all night long.

The rest of us only run them when we are actually working... not driving down the street.

Of course they should be on when you're plowing, especially if theres traffic... or backing out onto ANY street busy or otherwise.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

derekbroerse;533004 said:


> Jeff, I don't think you're getting the point. Its not whether or not to have lights, its a question of when is the right time to use them.
> 
> Some want to run them all day and all night long.
> 
> ...


Im working from the first driveway parking lot i hit to the last one! Its work!
I dont have them on on clear days at McDonalds!!!!!! or Timmies


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

i leave mine on sometimes if i forget.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Lynden-Jeff;532994 said:


> Sorry but its not an ego thing, if I could go sit around in a mall parking lot making videos I woulden't need lights either, but we work in the city, during all hours of the day, constantly backing out on to busy streets. If I want to feel important, ill go make some videos and post them on plow site. tymusic


(guess you did not read my post so I'll say it again

It is an ego thing if you are running your lights when your are not actively engaged in plowing.
It would be like a cop driving around with his lights on all the time when there is not a call...

How about if everyone run strobes and flashers all the time, I mean no one wants to get in to an accident.


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## BlueLine Ent (Nov 28, 2005)

I leave my lights on start to finish, on the street every where i go. Does that make me a bad plow driver?

OH, and by the way, I'm *plowing the streets*. I'm the municipal plow driver who plows the streets so you can take them between you jobs Gonna make me shut them off on the street?


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Lynden-Jeff;533001 said:


> I don't know how Niagra is differen't but everywhere else around here (Hamilton/Burlington) 99% of contractors leave their lights on DURING incliment weather including myself. I want to be seen, people are crap drivers in the snow so I am of course going to leave my blue light on, not my backrack lights, just my blue light. I don't know why everyone has to get in a tizzy about it, why should you really care!


Sorry I'm on dialup so its hard to keep up!

Its not different out here at all, (other than the lack of highspeed! ) but 99% of contractors run their lights when working, not when they aren't.

Snofarmer is more correct about a lot of it. Have a look at your strobe kit's box--most of them say right on them FOR OFFROAD USE ONLY. Why do you think that is? Do you really think its just some idiot looking for something to put on the box to take up space?

No one's in a tizzy, this is a discussion forum--a place to voice your opinion and do exactly what the bunch of us are doing--having a discussion about the pros and cons of things, and trying to make others see things our own ways. Myself, I love a good debate and I hope no one ever takes it as a personal thing.


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## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

SnoFarmer;533011 said:


> (guess you did not read my post so I'll say it again
> 
> It is an ego thing if you are running your lights when your are not actively engaged in plowing.
> It would be like a cop driving around with his lights on all the time when there is not a call...
> ...


I dont have any objection if they have a 10 ft hunk of steel hanging off their truck, a cop does not have that. Do you think we are driving around in MINI's here or what? And I don' t run strobes, ONLY my blue light.


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

this is getting out of hand shut it down michael j donnovan


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

BlueLine Ent;533012 said:


> I leave my lights on start to finish, on the street every where i go. Does that make me a bad plow driver?
> 
> OH, and by the way, I'm *plowing the streets*. I'm the municipal plow driver who plows the streets so you can take them between you jobs Gonna make me shut them off on the street?


NO THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE FOR.

Did you read the thread?


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## BlueLine Ent (Nov 28, 2005)

Yeah, I'm just busting everyones chops, trying to lighten it up in here. No pun intended.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

THEGOLDPRO;533018 said:


> this is getting out of hand shut it down michael j donnovan


No it isn't, its just getting interesting!

Its only out of hand once someone starts childish name calling! :realmad:


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## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

derekbroerse;533014 said:


> Sorry I'm on dialup so its hard to keep up!
> 
> Its not different out here at all, (other than the lack of highspeed! ) but 99% of contractors run their lights when working, not when they aren't.
> 
> ...


Well then I guess Niagra is a differen't place, because most contractors leave their lights on here.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

BlueLine Ent;533020 said:


> Yeah, I'm just busting everyones chops, trying to lighten it up in here. No pun intended.


That was awful. You should be ashamed of yourself!!


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Lynden-Jeff;533023 said:


> Well then I guess Niagra is a differen't place, because most contractors leave their lights on here.


Its our less polluted air out here.  J/K

I dunno. We'll see what the poll says. Interested?


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Lynden-Jeff;533016 said:


> I dont have any objection if they have a 10 ft hunk of steel hanging off their truck, a cop does not have that. Do you think we are driving around in MINI's here or what? And I don' t run strobes, ONLY my blue light.


I'll say it again. A tractor trailer is a much larger and heavier rolling deathtrap than you. If he doesn't need strobes while driving, why would you?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Oasis;533000 said:


> Mr. Snowfarmer....
> 
> This is a forum to voice opinions not to spout your gospel. I have never said Im shifting responsibility by lighting myself up. In fact I mentioned several times I use them so they can see me as a warning that Im here. I know that if I hit someone its my fault. But after i pay my premium increase I wont feel bad if i plowed through your car because I made every effort to tell you that Im big and that Im tired and that I have a lot of equipment on my truck and MOVE.
> 
> ...


Your ego is bigger than your truck.....

Hey, How about you post all the laws pertaining to aux lighting/and warning lights, where they can be mounted and where you can use them then?.

I have looked up the laws and they are fairly similar as safety is common seance.
I bet there more restricting than ours...


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

SnoFarmer;533035 said:


> Your ego is bigger than your truck.....
> 
> Hey, How about you post all the laws pertaining to aux lighting/and warning lights, where they can be mounted and where you can use them then?.
> 
> ...


I may not be an expert on legal matters but Im quite fluent in the English language. I gave you the name of our statute that pertains to the issue at hand and you are welcome to read it.

We dont limit where you can put strobes only that they not be forward facing red. As for Blue lights.... we dont limit them as long as you are engadged in snow removing activities. And this is very subjective. If you ask most officers around here they will tell you that if you are plowing, salting or in bad weather keep them on. If not dont. But as for lights like strobes or TIR3 or LIN3 or whatever... there is no laws against them.

As for the AK47 comment.... it was an example using hyperbole...... you know exageration  laws in your area are quite different then laws in mine.....

I dont have a large ego. But I cant stand when people like try to impose your opinions on everyone else. I like to read these responses. I take information to heart from each thread. I use peoples opinons in my thoughts for future actions. But it is my choice whether to follow your opinion or not.

Dont think that because you said so its right. or even legal or illegal. We all have higher powers .... the law etc. and your not it!

Sorry for the sarcasm before but well.... i thought you deserved it. From the looks of things im not the only one


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Technically, I don't think that qualifies as a hyperbole. Sarcasm, yes, hyperbole, no. 

Just a question... you say if you ask 'most officers' about your lights.... how many officers have you asked about your lights?

I'm pretty sure the strobes that are mounted in the headlights and taillights are specifically labelled offroad (and emergency vehicle) use only and that there is in fact a law against them, just don't know how/where to find it. Kind of like running clear taillights instead of red.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

derekbroerse;533059 said:


> Technically, I don't think that qualifies as a hyperbole. Sarcasm, yes, hyperbole, no.
> 
> Just a question... you say if you ask 'most officers' about your lights.... how many officers have you asked about your lights?
> 
> I'm pretty sure the strobes that are mounted in the headlights and taillights are specifically labelled offroad (and emergency vehicle) use only and that there is in fact a law against them, just don't know how/where to find it. Kind of like running clear taillights instead of red.


Hyperbole Defined: A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.

I believe my word was correct!

Actually Ive spoken to about 10 officers in the Metro Toronto area about the issue. I like to have coffees and donuts so I have many oppertunities.

Whether Whelen wants to label their lights or not ... like I said the Ontario Highway Traffic Act does not stipulate that you cant run them. The law trumps the manurfacturer every time.

As for your silly comment about running clear tails... yet again your lack of Highway Traffic Laws is apparent. It specifically says you MUST have rear facing red lights that react to your braking.

Sorry to advise you of this.

Thanks


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## Snowman16 (Feb 4, 2007)

derekbroerse;532583 said:


> Its not just opinion, in most places its illegal.


I see it like plowing snow across the street, speeding to an account that opens in twenty minuets, backing across the street broadside (impeding traffic), driving the wrong way on the road......etc, illegal? Yes but everyone has done it from time to time. I spent lots of hard earned money on my light bar and i feel cool with it on, so until someone gives me a fine for it i'me going to use all 100,000 hours of my LED's life.  Te he he


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

Snowman16;533063 said:


> I see it like plowing snow across the street, speeding to an account that opens in twenty minuets, backing across the street broadside (impeding traffic), driving the wrong way on the road......etc, illegal? Yes but everyone has done it from time to time. I spent lots of hard earned money on my light bar and i feel cool with it on, so until someone gives me a fine for it i'me going to use all 100,000 hours of my LED's life.  Te he he


LOL
xysport


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

Oasis;533057 said:


> We dont limit where you can put strobes only that they not be forward facing red. As for Blue lights.... we dont limit them as long as you are engadged in snow removing activities. And this is very subjective. If you ask most officers around here they will tell you that if you are plowing, salting or in bad weather keep them on. If not dont.


I'm confused here. You say you leave your lights on all the time when you've got your plow on and you're loaded with salt, but aren't you saying right here that you've been told by the police that you shouldn't?

Just to weigh in, I think you should comply with your regional laws as applcable. Barring anyhting being written as law, I think you should turn off your aux lights while travelling between jobs, leave your normal vehicle running lights o. When you arrive at the jobsite where you are to do work, turn on your aux lights. You guys that state that you leave your lights on start to finish because you're working, I think you're wrong...you're commuting to your jobsite.

In all honesty, I think this is moot. People don't notice strobe lights on the road...how many times have we all seen people driving down the road or sitting at a stoplight or sign, totally oblivious to the lit up fire truck, ambulance or police car right behind them.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Oasis;533057 said:


> I may not be an expert on legal matters but Im quite fluent in the English language. I gave you the name of our statute that pertains to the issue at hand and you are welcome to read it.
> 
> I'm not going to look it up for you , you post the law that you are referring to.
> 
> ...



.

I unlike you have researched this topic.

Lights can be illegal if mounted in the wrong location.
They can also be illegal if they blind other drivers.
It is illegal to drive around with your strobes or rotators on if you are engaged in plowing..

What if everyone who did not want to get into an accident ran warring lights?

Lastly no cop is going to tell you to run them all the time.

Plain and simple just because you have a loaded truck with a plow mounted does not mean your are actively engaged on snow removal.
traveling to an account does not count as actively engaged in snow removal.


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## Snowman16 (Feb 4, 2007)

Thats just the point, PEOPLE DON'T CARE!!!!!! It makes me feel good to see my light bar reflecting on my plow so i leave it on. If you don't like it LOOK AWAY. lol


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Oasis;533061 said:


> As for your silly comment about running clear tails... yet again your lack of Highway Traffic Laws is apparent. It specifically says you MUST have rear facing red lights that react to your braking.
> 
> Sorry to advise you of this.
> 
> Thanks


Your red tail lights can not alternate.

Let's not confuse brake lights for strobes


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## Snowman16 (Feb 4, 2007)

THEGOLDPRO;533018 said:


> this is getting out of hand shut it down michael j donnovan


I agree, quite out of hand. Lets just say we agree to disagree?


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## ducatirider944 (Feb 25, 2008)

derekbroerse;532996 said:


> Couldnt attach a poll here, so check out:
> 
> http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=59769
> 
> Should be interesting to actually get numbers. I'm betting the %'s are pretty close between option 1 and 2, I doubt many people run nothing.


I don't run any strobe lights. I use my hazards that came with the truck while plowing. I would say that over 70% of contractors in my area do the same. I'm pretty sure the law reads the same all across the US and probably Canada. If you hit someone it is your fault. Basic traffic rules still apply regardless if you are using your hazards, have strobe lights, beacon lights or noting at all. But maybe we are all a bunch of inbred hillbilly lowballers here in the sticks.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

ducatirider944;533078 said:


> I don't run any strobe lights. I use my hazards that came with the truck while plowing. I would say that over 70% of contractors in my area do the same. I'm pretty sure the law reads the same all across the US and probably Canada. If you hit someone it is your fault. Basic traffic rules still apply regardless if you are using your hazards, have strobe lights, beacon lights or noting at all. But maybe we are all a bunch of inbred hillbilly lowballers here in the sticks.


Your are right you don't have to run any lights unless you are on a public street.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

SnoFarmer;533068 said:


> .
> 
> I unlike you have researched this topic.
> 
> ...


I have researched this topic quite well actually. If you have read previous strobe light threads. I have read through the entire act just now and I still dont see any limitations on where lights can be mounted or when caution lights can be opperated. So until you show me otherwise you seem to be the one misinformed. When I have my loader full of de-icing material and I am buzzing around heavy traffic areas in Downtown Toronto you darn right I am actively engaged.

I think you need to seperate your opinions from facts. You havent given any facts yet you seem to think that you have.


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

i have another poll which do you guys like better chicken or steak????


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

SnoFarmer;533071 said:


> Your red tail lights can not alternate.
> 
> Let's not confuse brake lights for strobes


My strobes are in my tails. I didnt say they replaced them.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

ducatirider944;533078 said:


> I don't run any strobe lights. I use my hazards that came with the truck while plowing. I would say that over 70% of contractors in my area do the same. I'm pretty sure the law reads the same all across the US and probably Canada. If you hit someone it is your fault. Basic traffic rules still apply regardless if you are using your hazards, have strobe lights, beacon lights or noting at all. But maybe we are all a bunch of inbred hillbilly lowballers here in the sticks.


Whats the difference? Hazard lights are the same thing they are just cheaper?

Dont presume that laws are the same or similar. Make a right on a red in Quebec and youll know.

Noone said hazard lights obsolve you of liabilty in an accident.

And i dont remember telling anyone they were imbred or hillbilly lowballers?


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

THEGOLDPRO;533083 said:


> i have another poll which do you guys like better chicken or steak????


Steak plz.... New York Sirloin with sauted onions. 16 oz plz....wesport


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Oasis;533080 said:


> I have researched this topic quite well actually. If you have read previous strobe light threads. I have read through the entire act just now and I still dont see any limitations on where lights can be mounted or when caution lights can be opperated. So until you show me otherwise you seem to be the one misinformed. When I have my loader full of de-icing material and I am buzzing around heavy traffic areas in Downtown Toronto you darn right I am actively engaged.
> NO more than the little old lady bringing a #50 bag of salt home is.
> Again if you are a hazard take your self off the road I would not want you to kill someone.
> No amount of lights will stop an accident as they may actually add to it.
> ...


I have posted the facts over and over, go do a search on this topic.
( I have posted the law)

Hey, better yet Post the law and prove me wrong
I would think you would get some satisfaction out of that?

Go get out your traffic law book /statues and read about lights, aux lighting, driving lights, where they can be mounted. how bright they can be...etc etc...not just the part about warring lights as all of the laws apply not just the ones you want to.

You need to understand the law in whole. You can not just apply a small part of it to fit your needs.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

SnoFarmer;533089 said:


> I have posted the facts over and over, go do a search on this topic.
> ( I have posted the law)
> 
> Hey, better yet Post the law and prove me wrong
> ...


Im sorry I didnt realize you know everything. I will not dispute it with you anymore.
Illkeep my facts to myself and you can keep your opinions.


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## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

SnoFarmer;533079 said:


> Your are right you don't have to run any lights unless you are on a public street.


Using your Haz Lights like that here in OHIO is unlawful.

JUST FYI

P.S. My lights are on by the time I hit the end of my drive till i'm done for the day


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Oasis;533090 said:


> Im sorry I didnt realize you know everything. I will not dispute it with you anymore.
> Illkeep my facts to myself and you can keep your opinions.


That's a copout.

Prove me wrong. What are you afraid of?
You keep telling me that I'm wrong so take advantage of it.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

SnoFarmer;533093 said:


> That's a copout.
> 
> Prove me wrong. What are you afraid of?
> You keep telling me that I'm wrong so take advantage of it.


Talking to you is like banging up against the wall. All you get is a head ache.

Ive read the statutes and see nothing that pertains to what you speak of. You say you have and are right. Well obviously one of is isnt.

We disagree. What else is there. Im mature enough to say that.


----------



## ducatirider944 (Feb 25, 2008)

Oasis;533086 said:


> Whats the difference? Hazard lights are the same thing they are just cheaper?
> 
> Dont presume that laws are the same or similar. Make a right on a red in Quebec and youll know.
> 
> ...


Yes they are pretty much the same and I didn't have to pay for them, they came with the truck.

Didn't say anyone had said that they did _*absolve*_ you of liability in an accident.

I was just pointing out a FACT that nobody has mentioned. Wither your running them only in lots, all the time, wanting to be seen, if you're breaking laws by running them here or there. It is still your responsibility to maintain control of your vehicle and obey traffic laws, just like if a guy hits you, it will be his fault as long as you have your running lights on at night.

Didn't say that you called me inbred or a hillbilly.

The most important thing here is we all need to get life's IMO. It is 11-12pm depending on your time zone on a Saturday night scrapping like a group of grade school boys and not out chasing tail. Mine is a sleep right now because she has to get up early in the morning.


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Clapper&Company;533091 said:


> Using your Haz Lights like that here in OHIO is unlawful.
> 
> JUST FYI
> 
> P.S. My lights are on by the time I hit the end of my drive till i'm done for the day


That law does not extend to private property.
You don't even have to have your any of your lights on when on private property.

So everyone who uses the roads should be using warring lights.

How about the dump truck that is loaded or that 18 wheeler or a motorcycle


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Oasis;533094 said:


> Talking to you is like banging up against the wall. All you get is a head ache.
> 
> Ive read the statutes and see nothing that pertains to what you speak of. You say you have and are right. Well obviously one of is isnt.
> 
> We disagree. What else is there. Im mature enough to say that.


Sticks and stones, sticks and stones

Prove me wrong.
How hard can it be?

Post it...

.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

SnoFarmer;533103 said:


> Sticks and stones, sticks and stones
> 
> Prove me wrong.
> How hard can it be?
> ...


You know for a 46 year old you seem rather immature. Im not gonna get baited by you. Im not gonna engage in a pointless argument because you are bored.

I have shared my opinion and the facts as I understand them from our laws. You seem to think you know differerently.

If you are so adiment feel free to back yourself up. If not I am not going to waste any more time with your comments.

thanks


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/aftermarket_lighting_8570_7.pdf


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Oasis;532571 said:


> My amber strobe go on from the time I start working till the time I finish. If its snowing or I have a salt load my blue light is running as well. There are NO laws against this here and to be perfectly honest, I will do anything to make my big black truck visible. People dont pay attention anyways as someone else here pointed out. You can be stopped on the side of your road with your flashers on with people honking behind you to go.
> 
> When I stop on the side of the road with my hide aways, my blue light and my LIR3s flashing no one dares to honk at me to resume.
> 
> ...


You may want to speak to a local cop or mto-I got fined for running my strobes on the street. i actually forgot to turn them off during the day and it cost me 120.00-it is illegal unless you are under contract with the city or municipality.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Oasis;533105 said:


> You know for a 46 year old you seem rather immature. Im not gonna get baited by you. Im not gonna engage in a pointless argument because you are bored.
> 
> I have shared my opinion and the facts as I understand them from our laws. You seem to think you know differerently.
> 
> ...


I guess that means you can't prove me wrong then.



SnoFarmer;322164 said:


> LLM Ann Arbor You failed to mention its also a law you have them in a lot of states.
> 
> If the statue states: MAY BE EQUIPTED. you do not need any flashing lights.
> but rather you are allowed to use them.
> ...


or http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/90-7.htm

Ask a cop..http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?p=44617


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

SnoFarmer;533107 said:


> http://www.michigan.gov/documents/aftermarket_lighting_8570_7.pdf


what the heck does that have to do with Ontario Law?


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

JohnnyRoyale;533108 said:


> You may want to speak to a local cop or mto-I got fined for running my strobes on the street. i actually forgot to turn them off during the day and it cost me 120.00-it is illegal unless you are under contract with the city or municipality.


ive spoken to many actually. They have all told me that they wouldnt bother anyone with a blue light unless it was clear conditions and daylight. and even then... they told me that if you fight it and tell a judge that you were being in the best interest of other motorists letting them know you are there no judge would uphold it.

you must have gotten one really ticked or bored cop.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Oasis;533114 said:


> what the heck does that have to do with Ontario Law?


Prove it has nothing to do with it..

Just prove me wrong....

Site some law, give us a web site that supports your position.....something, not just hear say..

There are a lot of cops who do not know the laws are...
I've raced state trooper with my 68 Charger, just because I had the nod from a cop did not make it any less of an illegal activity..

So ether prove me wrong or admit it's agents the law. What's the big deal none of us are saints..


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## ducatirider944 (Feb 25, 2008)

JohnnyRoyale;533108 said:


> You may want to speak to a local cop or mto-I got fined for running my strobes on the street. i actually forgot to turn them off during the day and it cost me 120.00-it is illegal unless you are under contract with the city or municipality.


Did you go to court with this? I didn't find anything on amber strobes, but it might be there somewhere. I also found it interesting to my understanding that you can't even plow without a blue flashing light legally?

Ontario taffic act
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK109

Section 61.
Flashing blue light on snow-removal equipment

(31) No person shall, while operating a road service vehicle on a highway, plow, salt or de-ice the highway or apply chemicals or abrasives to the highway for snow or ice control unless the road service vehicle is equipped with a lamp producing intermittent flashes of blue light visible for a distance of 150 metres from all directions. 1996, c. 33, s. 11.

Restriction on use of flashing blue light

(32) No person shall operate a lamp that produces intermittent flashes of blue light on a highway except,

(a) a person operating a road service vehicle in the circumstances described in subsection (31); or

(b) a person operating a police department vehicle, together with a lamp that produces intermittent flashes of red light, as permitted by subsection (14.1). 2007, c. 13, s. 17 (8).



SnoFarmer;533120 said:


> Prove it has nothing to do with it..
> 
> Just prove me wrong....
> 
> ...


To my understanding Ontario has no laws on amber strobes, see link above. This does make me want to look into Iowa's laws though!


----------



## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

SnoFarmer;533120 said:


> Prove it has nothing to do with it..
> 
> Just prove me wrong....
> 
> ...


Heres your proof below:



ducatirider944;533140 said:


> Did you go to court with this? I didn't find anything on amber strobes, but it might be there somewhere. I also found it interesting to my understanding that you can't even plow without a blue flashing light legally?
> 
> Section 61.
> Flashing blue light on snow-removal equipment
> ...


You are correct, you can NOT get a ticket for running an amber strobe on any road, and you can NOT get a ticket for running a blue light on inner city streets. The newbie cops will try but you are well within your rights, the highways, you can not run a blue light.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

We do not use them. Drove a lot of our clients crazy when we did, residential that is.
Different laws in different states, and provinces. Just the other month a cop stopped and told me I hard to turn of my lights in the back of my tractor. I mentioned that I need them to see when I back into my driveways. He told me to turn them on when backing up, and turn them off when moving forward. So I asked, even when going next door to my next client do I have to turn them off. The answer was yes. I worked the rest of that night without lights. The next time I went out, I worked with them on all the time and have had no problems..

By the way you now can turn right at red lights in Quebec. Except on the island of Montreal, and the city of Quebec.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

Paul Vanderzon;533206 said:


> We do not use them. Drove a lot of our clients crazy when we did, residential that is.
> Different laws in different states, and provinces. Just the other month a cop stopped and told me I hard to turn of my lights in the back of my tractor. I mentioned that I need them to see when I back into my driveways. He told me to turn them on when backing up, and turn them off when moving forward. So I asked, even when going next door to my next client do I have to turn them off. The answer was yes. I worked the rest of that night without lights. The next time I went out, I worked with them on all the time and have had no problems..
> 
> By the way you now can turn right at red lights in Quebec. Except on the island of Montreal, and the city of Quebec.


LOL i stand corrected,,,, its been a while since Ive been there. Sorrry


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## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

Wow Guys....I guess my little pet peeve is more of an issue for some then I thougt....wow what a discussion.

I guess back to my original point...use your lights when you are plowing, sanding or causing a real hazard, blocking traffic, slowing traffic etc. If you're fueling, having coffee or just moving to the next location....Turn them off.

Cheers to all...

Dave

ps. don't get me started on Canadian Gun Laws...."only free men own guns and can carry them"

pps. I do love Canada...visit monthly eh.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

Yay Canada  LOL


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

i dont have any strobes on my trucks just rotating halogen beacons.......we keep them on if the snow is still falling and at drivers discretion to run them if there is no lot traffic with good visibility


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## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

Lynden-Jeff;533172 said:


> Heres your proof below:
> 
> You are correct, you can NOT get a ticket for running an amber strobe on any road, and you can NOT get a ticket for running a blue light on inner city streets. The newbie cops will try but you are well within your rights, the highways, you can not run a blue light.


Yeah ticket for Amber only some small cases they can nail you. But the blue They can get you anywere but on private lots.

The highway act and all that is referenced to province laws.

The city by-laws on the other hand, apply to main streets / side streets. Blue light in Toronto and most of Ontario is a registered light to city operated, snow removal equipment. so technically unless you do city contracts or have a nice city equipment number, a blue light is not allowed. Of course private property they can do nothing. Same applies to green lights as they are off duty firefighters, and same with red of course since thats emerency services.

We've heard people getting pulled over for leaving blue lights on, getting the ticket, going to court and it still sticking.

Amber from everything I have read is just a universal warning, and they can't do much if you leave that running on the road. of course with all the laws/ by-laws they can find a way to nail you.


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## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

JohnnyRoyale;533108 said:


> You may want to speak to a local cop or mto-I got fined for running my strobes on the street. i actually forgot to turn them off during the day and it cost me 120.00-it is illegal unless you are under contract with the city or municipality.


Those blue, Clear, Amber?

You might have been one of the several cases I've heard about down the grapevine.


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## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

Well ill gladly pay a ticket, because I am not shutting my blue light off while it is still snowing, end of story.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Bruce'sEx;533543 said:


> Those blue, Clear, Amber?
> 
> You might have been one of the several cases I've heard about down the grapevine.


Blue and Amber Strobes mounted on my backrack.


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

it seems like plowers these days are more worried about lights than plowing. Theres so much pointless strobe disscusion on this site like"which ones better", " whats your favorite light brand"
Dont get me wronge I know lots about them but it just seems people like the lights more than the plowing


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

ultimate plow;533730 said:


> it seems like plowers these days are more worried about lights than plowing. Theres so much pointless strobe disscusion on this site like"which ones better", " whats your favorite light brand"
> Dont get me wronge I know lots about them but it just seems people like the lights more than the plowing


Point being?


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## Wieckster (Jan 9, 2008)

I have strobes and mini light bar I figure I dont want someone running into me and then I have to get my truck fixed its 2 expensive to be without a truck I run them from start of plowing til I am done worth it to me


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Wow, you guys kept this going for two more pages after I went offline last night? Can we tell its been a slow weekend for everyone? 

I'm pretty sure that the word highway is defined in the HTA as any roadway maintained by Municipal, Regional, Provincial, or Federal governments. This is to separate these roadways from private roads, on private property. Check any speeding ticket you get, it refers to the road as a highway... even country back roads.

The rules listed above also stated that the blue lights are for vehicles that are "actively" performing snow removal operations (ie: plowing or sanding/salting). Driving from site to site is not actively plowing, now is it? If the blade is down on the ground, or the spreader is throwing salt, yes, you are actively plowing. If not, you aren't.

Posed this same question to a bunch of people today while I was working, gave them the scenerio and the same two options we keep arguing. The decision was unanimous, with hardly any discussion... lights on while plowing, lights off while driving to the next job. Oh, and BTW, the truckers of the group found the 'I drive a big heavy truck' (3/4 ton) reason very, very funny. The one drives a B-Train with a total weight of up to 140,000lbs. and he doesn't need strobes on when he drives. If anything out there is Rolling Death and needs a warning to others, well, there it is. (For those who don't know what a B-Train is, think Semi Tractor pulling TWO loaded trailers)


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

THEGOLDPRO;533083 said:


> i have another poll which do you guys like better chicken or steak????


You've heard of a "Cowbird" before, now haven't you?  Mmmmmm tasty!

Depends who's making it, steak usually, but for example Taco Bell's "steak" tastes like crap. Besides, I didn't know you could make steak out of dogs.


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## YardMedic (Nov 29, 2006)

Anyone had elk? I had some elk medallions in Montana, and they were by far the best steak I've ever had.

By the by.... shut lights off between jobs. I find when pulling up to a driveway, turning on the single roof light gets people's attention. People notice changes more than the continuous annoyance. If you slept with the radio on, you couldn't use the clock radio to wake up to in the morning. Think about it: you're driving to a property (a driveway, a lot entrance, whatever)... you slow down with your blinker on, you throw on the ambers/blues/greens/whatever color & flavor in your region, it then indicates that "HEY, OVER HERE!! I'M WORKING NOW!!" Also like grandpa driving 87 miles of highway with his blinker on and expecting YOU to know that he's turning off at the last exit.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Dang, only got through page 3 so far, but I have a couple points to add to the discussion.



derekbroerse;532541 said:


> Not sure I understand people forgetting to turn them on... turning them off, I agree, I'm sure we've all done that a time or two when we're tired (light up switches help prevent that)... but turning them on? Thats part of the job, when you start to work you alert people that you are working by turning on the lights. Not really a good reason to leave them on all night/day. You don't forget to turn on the wipers when it starts raining, do you?
> 
> As for poor visibility (extreme), or other reasons, there will always be extraordinary circumstances where extra visibility is a good idea. For example, the other night I used mine to slow traffic at a three-car accident on a major country road (dark) until emergency crews could arrive, because people were still just flying thru. With the strobes and lightbar on, it actually worked, people slowed to a crawl thru the scene then proceeded. I left once the police arrived. Last thing I wanted to see was injured people, still strapped in their cars, hit yet again because other drivers didn't realize it was an accident until they were in it... then wipe out because it was so slick.
> 
> ...but for just driving around, especially in the daytime, it seems so much more like a macho 'look at me' type of thing. And no one cares, so why bother?


lol, I think you, SF and me are related.



Oasis;532571 said:


> My amber strobe go on from the time I start working till the time I finish. If its snowing or I have a salt load my blue light is running as well. There are NO laws against this here and to be perfectly honest, I will do anything to make my big black truck visible. People dont pay attention anyways as someone else here pointed out. You can be stopped on the side of your road with your flashers on with people honking behind you to go.
> 
> Obviously, you won't and you are a hypocrite. If you would do anything to make your truck visible, you wouldn't have a black truck, it would be neon yellow. And conspicuity tape all over it. So don't get all pissy about other people's opinions when you won't even practice what you preach. Paint and tape up your truck if you're so gung-ho on visibility. See below for further comments
> 
> ...


FWIW, there have been numerous studies that have shown the more lights on a vehicle or at an accident scene, the more people are drawn to it. Less is better when it comes to lights, less FPM, using the same types of lights--all strobes or halogens or LED's. Whatever. Not opinion, FACT.



Young Pup;532807 said:


> I leave mine on from start to finish. Think about it, you have a deadly weapon on the front of your truck. I want to been because of that. To me it makes sense. I have a light bar, no strobes in the headlights or tailights though.So the lightbar is on constantly.


And your truck isn't a deadly weapon without the plow?



SnoFarmer;532969 said:


> If your a hazard then take it off the street, running your lights does not make you any less of a hazard.
> 
> You are supposed to only run your lights when engaged in snow removal, not because your vehicle is over weight.
> 
> ...


Are you my long lost brother?



Lynden-Jeff;532981 said:


> Another thing, and I will assume that you do not do alot of backing out on to busy streets with all the larger lots you do, especially in OASIS's case, hes working down town T.O and backing out on to streets is dangerous, and really how can you go overkill on lights to make your self as visual as possible? We arn't plowing in the sticks here!


See below



Lynden-Jeff;532994 said:


> Sorry but its not an ego thing, if I could go sit around in a mall parking lot making videos I woulden't need lights either, but we work in the city, during all hours of the day, constantly backing out on to busy streets. If I want to feel important, ill go make some videos and post them on plow site. tymusic


If you really want to be so safe, then instead of backing into the streets all the time, buy a back or pull plow and then you won't be endangered or endangering other people's lives or Christmas trucks. It works, and has for a long time.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Oasis;533057 said:


> I may not be an expert on legal matters but Im quite fluent in the English language. I gave you the name of our statute that pertains to the issue at hand and you are welcome to read it.
> 
> We dont limit where you can put strobes only that they not be forward facing red. As for Blue lights.... we dont limit them as long as you are engadged in snow removing activities. And this is very subjective. If you ask most officers around here they will tell you that if you are plowing, salting or in bad weather keep them on. If not dont. But as for lights like strobes or TIR3 or LIN3 or whatever... there is no laws against them.
> 
> ...


By your own admission, keeping the lights on while driving up the road _*is*_ illegal.



Snowman16;533063 said:


> I see it like plowing snow across the street, speeding to an account that opens in twenty minuets, backing across the street broadside (impeding traffic), driving the wrong way on the road......etc, illegal? Yes but everyone has done it from time to time. I spent lots of hard earned money on my light bar and i feel cool with it on, so until someone gives me a fine for it i'me going to use all 100,000 hours of my LED's life.  Te he he


Exactly the point of this whole thread. Feeling cool doesn't make it legal or right.



mayhem;533066 said:


> I'm confused here. You say you leave your lights on all the time when you've got your plow on and you're loaded with salt, but aren't you saying right here that you've been told by the police that you shouldn't?
> 
> Just to weigh in, I think you should comply with your regional laws as applcable. Barring anyhting being written as law, I think you should turn off your aux lights while travelling between jobs, leave your normal vehicle running lights o. When you arrive at the jobsite where you are to do work, turn on your aux lights. You guys that state that you leave your lights on start to finish because you're working, I think you're wrong...you're commuting to your jobsite.
> 
> In all honesty, I think this is moot. People don't notice strobe lights on the road...how many times have we all seen people driving down the road or sitting at a stoplight or sign, totally oblivious to the lit up fire truck, ambulance or police car right behind them.


Silly you for pointing out the obvious, what were you thinking?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Snowman16;533070 said:


> Thats just the point, PEOPLE DON'T CARE!!!!!! It makes me feel good to see my light bar reflecting on my plow so i leave it on. If you don't like it LOOK AWAY. lol


People don't care because there's so many people breaking the law that they don't get the attention they deserve anymore. Glad your feeling good and cool. I could give 2 poops about how you feel and more about what makes sense and is legal.



Snowman16;533076 said:


> I agree, quite out of hand. Lets just say we agree to disagree?


Don't like it, don't read it. Free country.



Oasis;533105 said:


> You know for a 46 year old you seem rather immature. Im not gonna get baited by you. Im not gonna engage in a pointless argument because you are bored.
> 
> I have shared my opinion and the facts as I understand them from our laws. You seem to think you know differerently.
> 
> ...


Why is it so difficult to humor a 46 year old man? If you're sooooooo right, prove him wrong.



ultimate plow;533730 said:


> it seems like plowers these days are more worried about lights than plowing. Theres so much pointless strobe disscusion on this site like"which ones better", " whats your favorite light brand"
> Dont get me wronge I know lots about them but it just seems people like the lights more than the plowing


See above, don't like it, don't read it.

Next time someone stirs up a hornet's nest, let me know, this is fun.

PS And for those of you who want the thread shut down, why? No rules have been broken, they haven't even been bent. What's wrong with a good, lively discussion? You sound like a bunch of women that don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

PPS And if you haven't figured it out yet, a good, lively discussion brings in members to view it and post, which ups the numbers and allows Moose River to charge more for advertising and hopefully will allow for a new server.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;534378 said:


> .
> lol, I think you, SF and me are related.
> 
> Are you my long lost brother?
> ...


My Dad did travel a lot?:waving:
Just a diffrent mother


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Forgot one question. 

If plows are 'deadly weapons' can someone enlighten me to how many plow caused deaths in MVA's there are vs. non-plow caused vehicle deaths? 

Betcha it isn't even a statistical blip.


----------



## Young Pup (Aug 13, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;534378 said:


> Dang, only got through page 3 so far, but I have a couple points to add to the discussion.
> 
> And your truck isn't a deadly weapon without the plow?
> 
> ...


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

too funny. 
I side with the ones that follow the law and dont need all the lights on to help their self esteem.


----------



## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

YardMedic;534165 said:


> Anyone had elk? I had some elk medallions in Montana, and they were by far the best steak I've ever had.
> 
> By the by.... shut lights off between jobs. I find when pulling up to a driveway, turning on the single roof light gets people's attention. People notice changes more than the continuous annoyance. If you slept with the radio on, you couldn't use the clock radio to wake up to in the morning. Think about it: you're driving to a property (a driveway, a lot entrance, whatever)... you slow down with your blinker on, you throw on the ambers/blues/greens/whatever color & flavor in your region, it then indicates that "HEY, OVER HERE!! I'M WORKING NOW!!" Also like grandpa driving 87 miles of highway with his blinker on and expecting YOU to know that he's turning off at the last exit.


I think this really summerizes well how I feel and why I started the thread in the first place.

I see the need for strobes etc. Everyone of my vehicles has them liberally distributed over them to ensure visiblity and safety. Plus darn they look really cool too 

All I say is use them when you are working if your not keep them shut off.

Cheers all 

Dave

ps. nothing deadly about my truck other than maybe the driver and what's behind the seat.


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I have a Q for everyone who says it is for safety because they have a plow sticking out 3ft in front.

When you pull a trailer and have 10ft to +30ft out back do you use your warring light, strobe or rotators etc etc?

How about a 18wheeler? Most are over 8ft wide so are a lot of motor homes and travel trailers.


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## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

SnoFarmer;534811 said:


> I have a Q for everyone who says it is for safety because they have a plow sticking out 3ft in front.
> 
> When you pull a trailer and have 10ft to +30ft out back do you use your warring light, strobe or rotators etc etc?
> 
> How about a 18wheeler? Most are over 8ft wide so are a lot of motor homes and travel trailers.


Good point, but are you driving those Motor Homes and Trailers DURING SNOWSTORMS ...

And not for nothing I think it has to do more with WHERE you plow...

Sno Farmer, you live in Minnesota which is roughly 80,000 square miles of land area and has a Total population of 5.2 million people... I plow and live on Long Island which is roughly 1400 square miles and had a population of over 7.6 million people... It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see this correlation...

And Mark Oomkes, your comment regarding snow plow accidents versus deaths is hysterical... Your analogy is so far off its mind boggeling. Why dont you consider this fact... What are the statistics of vehicles with PLOWS on them involved in accidents that result in fatalities versus vehicles without plows on them involvled in motor vehicle fatalities... I am sure that the statistics will show you a higher fatality rate with accidents involving plow vehicles then without...


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

jjklongisland;534915 said:


> Good point, but are you driving those Motor Homes and Trailers DURING SNOWSTORMS ...
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

SnoFarmer;534942 said:


> jjklongisland;534915 said:
> 
> 
> > Good point, but are you driving those Motor Homes and Trailers DURING SNOWSTORMS ...
> ...


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## 4x4Farmer (Sep 22, 2006)

now I see where that comment came from on my video I posted! lol, wow that took me a long time to read this post!! all im going to say is on the heavy equipment the strobes stay on from start to finish. Im large, im slow moving, there staying on!


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## ducatirider944 (Feb 25, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;534428 said:


> Forgot one question.
> 
> If plows are *'deadly weapons' *can someone enlighten me to how many plow caused deaths in MVA's there are vs. non-plow caused vehicle deaths?
> 
> Betcha it isn't even a statistical blip.


I would love to see these numbers. How do you want to figure them? Example: there was 300 nation wide deaths due to being hit buy a plow vehicle and there was 300,000 killed buy non-plow vehicles so that gives me .001% of deaths by plow. See I told ya it was a blip!

If you want a true comparison there are a lot of factors you need to figure and I don't think you could possibly do an accurate comparison. And since I keep seeing this "PROVE ME WRONG" go ahead do it but don't just pull numbers out of the air. Site sources for others to see where the info came from.

True comparison figures needed:
-Number of vehicles on the road during plowable events 
-% of these vehicles that are plow vehicles and % of non-plow vehicles on the road at the same time
-Number of plowable days in the area that you had plow vehicles on the road vs. Number of days that were non-plowable
-Number of deaths that didn't involve a plow vehicle
-Number of deaths that did involve a plow vehicle
-% of the day that plow vehicles were on the road. (One thing I can assure you is that there would be a higher number vehicle deaths that involved plow trucks from 12:00 am to 6:00 am during plowable events. IE: higher % of plow vehicles vs. non plow vehicles

This is just a start, there are more but you should start getting my drift.

As far as plow vehicles being deadly weapons. And since I have seen FACT here a lot I shall point some out. 
1. A moving vehicle at any speed has kinetic energy. 
2. The more the vehicle weighs the more kinetic energy it has at the same given X speed
3. The more kinetic energy you have the more force it will take to stop said vehicle to a rest.

This being said a 1 ton diesel dually which weighs approximately 7000# traveling at 30 mph will have more kinetic energy and take more resistant force to bring it to a stop than a 3500# passenger car moving at the same speed. Now let's throw on a 1000# plow to the front of the truck and 2000# of ballast in the bed of the truck for a total vehicle weight of10,000#. I just added 30% more impact force in a collision just from simple physics. Here is another point to look at. Vehicles are made to absorb energy in a collision to help protect its passengers. How is that plow attached to your truck? Anything on it to absorb energy? I hope not. Physics works the same here too. You use force to create kinetic energy to be able to push that snow across your lot right?

Now that I have shown the role of basic physics, there is another thing that I think should be brought up. Knowing that a truck with a plow on the front will not absorb much for energy (it will some, the blade might swing to the left or right to absorb a blip of energy. Or the blade could possibly bend absorbing energy, but think about the amount of energy it would take to bend your plow!) The vehicle you are hitting now has to absorb the mass of energy.

Why do you think accidents that involve motorcycles are so much more deadly than accidents that don't involve motorcycles, yet if we look at the % of total vehicular deaths this is still a small number?

So yes, I think that plow trucks should be considered more of a deadly weapon than other vehicles. No not to the level of semi-trucks or trains.


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## 91AK250 (Nov 28, 2007)

wow...what a post...i dont really care either way..i think its personal pref IMO unless its illegal where you are.

where i am it is perfectly legal to run w/lights on, i infact run with mine on when going from site to site.


i actuly had a guy come up to me when i was parked infront of a store waiting for my friend, i had my lights on it was snowing out. he comes up and is a real dick to me..which if he had been semi civil and listened to me i would have been nicer to him. but he comes up, knocks HARD on my window..says "you know you have your light on, thats illegal" i said "excuse me sir, it is not infact illegal and its staying on" he starts telling me how it can only be on when i'm working. i then told him to take his opinion and shove it and rolled up my window. that pissed me off.

most of the reason i run with them on, is where i plow the roads get real narrow and somtimes barly 2 cars wide. i like to let people know i'm wider then the lane somtimes and maybe take alittle extra caution when passing me headon(yes i slow down and move over as much as possible)


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

Strobes have only gained popularity in the last couple of years.

How many guys did not plow 2 or 3 years ago because they had no strobes?

I still like the way the big ol rotating bubble gum machines turn and look. 


When the strobes burn out or don't work do you all stay home?


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## KGRlandscapeing (May 2, 2007)

REAPER;535149 said:


> Strobes have only gained popularity in the last couple of years.
> 
> How many guys did not plow 2 or 3 years ago because they had no strobes?
> 
> ...


actually my strobes r on my pretrip if they dont work they get fixd befor i go. also mine r setup so that there seprate. one dosent work ill use the other.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ducatirider944;535129 said:


> I would love to see these numbers. How do you want to figure them? Example: there was 300 nation wide deaths due to being hit buy a plow vehicle and there was 300,000 killed buy non-plow vehicles so that gives me .001% of deaths by plow. See I told ya it was a blip!
> 
> If you want a true comparison there are a lot of factors you need to figure and I don't think you could possibly do an accurate comparison. And since I keep seeing this "PROVE ME WRONG" go ahead do it but don't just pull numbers out of the air. Site sources for others to see where the info came from.
> 
> ...


Great, I was trying to keep it simple, but whatever.

When you have these numbers, let me know and we can dissect them.

I'd still wager that if you compare it like semis with miles driven instead of just how many there are on the road, that the number would be significantly less than most of you guys think. I mean, some of you guys make it sound like plow trucks are out there killing someone every storm in every state of the country on a daily basis, and we know that isn't happening, otherwise our 'unbiased' media would have turned it into a crisis by now and had all front mounted plows outlawed, Congress would have convened a special hearing, yada, yada, yada.

So back to the point. Some of you claim they are deadlier weapons than just the truck. How many fatalities are there involving trucks with front mounted plows? Just simple numbers, how many? And what percentage is that of overall highway fatalities?

ducati, thanks for the physics lesson, I had no idea. See, I'm just a 14 YO school girl that doesn't plow or even live in the snow belt.

4X4, I commend you for leaving your strobes on the whole time, my heavier\slower equipment has them on constantly as well, as the law requires.


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## ducatirider944 (Feb 25, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;535195 said:


> Great, I was trying to keep it simple, but whatever.
> 
> *When you have these numbers, let me know and we can dissect them. *
> 
> ...





ducatirider944;535129 said:


> If you want a true comparison there are a lot of factors you need to figure and *I don't think you could possibly do an accurate comparison.*
> 
> As far as plow vehicles being deadly weapons. And since I have seen FACT here a lot I shall point some out.
> *1. A moving vehicle at any speed has kinetic energy.
> ...


First, I would like point out I'm just debating here. As far as the amount of deaths by semi-trucks verses miles driven let's look at a few things. And I will also agree that semi-trucks are a smaller percentage than one would think. Here are some questions that you don't need the exact numbers but if you answer them with some simple logic, "common sense" should prevail
1. What is the % of miles semi-trucks drive on interstate vs. local roads?
2. What is the % of deaths on interstates vs. local roads?
3. How many mph does a semi-truck log vs. how many mph you log out plowing?
4. What is your % of living in a serious accident with a semi-truck or plow truck vs. same accident with a passenger vehicle?
5. What % of kinetic energy does a plow truck or semi-truck absorb in an accident vs. passenger vehicle being hit?

I for one would rather be in the semi-truck or plow truck vs. the passenger vehicle. I would logically think my odds would be better at survival, but I have beaten those odds before. (see post #97 in Wife/Girlfriends Jobs in Off Topic/General Discussions) I guess if you want to think that operating a plow vehicle has no emanate danger to the public that is your right. I see that they don't teach physics and logic in school anymore. I wonder if this little girls parents knows she is posting on a forum with a bunch of perverts? Now, I'm gonna go have lunch at the local bar and lit up on scotch. I will take the plow off the truck though before I go because I don't want to hurt anyone!
LMAOprsport


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