# SMS Walgreens snow contracts



## PTTP08 (Dec 9, 2009)

Has anybody heard from SMS yet about snow contracts?? I mow the western half of MN. all the Walgreens and I havent heard a damn thing about snow contracts. I emailed my SMS contact and no return email and all my store managers are PISSED off because of this. It snowed 6 inches way up north so of course my phone blew up over this and all the managers said if we get snow come plow us out please. I said yes I will from a customer service stand point. I personly think I am getting the shaft cause brinkman probably is working on a deal or something or another! All the managers don't want to lose me as contractor been mowing these stores for 4 years kinda of built good realations with all the managers oh well one door closes and another one opens up.


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## John143 (Nov 2, 2011)

PTTP08;1496963 said:


> I emailed my SMS contact and no return email and all my store managers are PISSED off because of this.


Never worked for SMS but it sounds to me like their contract may be up for a renewal and there's other people such a USM bidding on a new contract. They very well might not have the account this year and is why no one is calling you back.


> All the managers don't want to lose me as contractor been mowing these stores for 4 years kinda of built good relations with all the managers oh well one door closes and another one opens up.


Unfortunately, that doesn't mean spit how much the managers like you. Hell even if one of them was your wife you still will be s*it out of luck if another NSP comes in with a lower price. All the managers can do is talk about how much is sucks not getting any snow removed. At the end of the day the main office or "headquarters" if you will calls the shots on who cuts what and who removes the snow.

Good luck!


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

Walgreens will stay contracted at the local level this year. Unfortunately, the local level may not have this news yet nor a request to proceed. Stay close to your store managers.


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

hoskm01;1497879 said:


> Walgreens will stay contracted at the local level this year. Unfortunately, the local level may not have this news yet nor a request to proceed. Stay close to your store managers.


Thats good to hear. I got CBRE on me to give them a site survey. They had all the mowing for walgreens and are trying to get the snow. Nothing concrete yet.


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## snowbrothers101 (Jul 27, 2009)

I was told SMS is out. CBRE is currently running a national RFP for the snow. Confirmed through 2 different national companies.


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

maelawncare;1497938 said:


> Thats good to hear. I got CBRE on me to give them a site survey. They had all the mowing for walgreens and are trying to get the snow. Nothing concrete yet.


CBRE manages all of the facilities maintenance including landscaping and snow, among many others. They are a good group to know.



snowbrothers101;1498431 said:


> I was told SMS is out. CBRE is currently running a national RFP for the snow. Confirmed through 2 different national companies.


SMS may be out, wouldn't be surprised. There will be no national RFP for snow this year so if you're an incumbent vendor at your local site(s) then you're in a good place. If your contacts still think it's going down, they're behind and out of touch.


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## Advantage (Nov 7, 2007)

We've been servicing our local Walgreens for years and SMS came on to the landscape maint. this season. The store manager told me they have the snow as well. Hence, I am submitting pricing to them. That's what is happening here anyway.


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## PTTP08 (Dec 9, 2009)

SMS finaly got back to me and gave me pricing for all my stores YEEHAA and it seems very fair which I am very surprised at. Any of you plowed for SMS in the winter time? Do you check into that IVR system or what? I did that for lawn care but snow is a lil differnt story since you can't really schedule it ya just gatta go and plow.


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## Advantage (Nov 7, 2007)

PTTP08;1499121 said:


> SMS finaly got back to me and gave me pricing for all my stores YEEHAA and it seems very fair which I am very surprised at. Any of you plowed for SMS in the winter time? Do you check into that IVR system or what? I did that for lawn care but snow is a lil differnt story since you can't really schedule it ya just gatta go and plow.


It is pretty much the same as in the summer. Minus the online scheduling of course.


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## Christenson77 (Aug 21, 2012)

I have plowing for SMS for 3 years now and the IVR system is a snap! and yes thier prices are ok for a national. I just show upand plow and then I IVR into the system what I did as im driving to the next store on my cell. I have 5 family dollar stores I do for them. They just got into the lawncare side this year with Walgreens out here in Colorado and but couldn;t hire me for the lawns because Walgreens corporate told them they had to hire who has been doing the lawns for them first. If the old contractor didn't want to work for SMS then SMS could hire me. But the old contractor went to the regional manager for Walgreeens and got him to tell SMS that they were going opt out of using SMS in thier region which apparantly they have the choice to opt out of using SMS if thier reginal manger wants to not use SMS. The Walgreens stores turned into a nightmare with SMS and I told them forget it and to call me this winter when the snow season comes. They did and here we go!!!


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## Snowman7 (Sep 24, 2009)

Insurance Requirements for SMS

What did your insurance companies say regarding the SMS master service agreement which puts all the liability solely on the contractor. 

I have done the landscaping for walgreens thru SMS and now am looking at doing the snow removal for them. My insurance company is having a issue with the requirments... Plus I am struggling with the way they have it worded.. Looking for your opinions.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Snowman7;1507054 said:


> Insurance Requirements for SMS
> 
> What did your insurance companies say regarding the SMS master service agreement which puts all the liability solely on the contractor.
> 
> I have done the landscaping for walgreens thru SMS and now am looking at doing the snow removal for them. My insurance company is having a issue with the requirments... Plus I am struggling with the way they have it worded.. Looking for your opinions.


+ $4,000,000.00 umbrella.....


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## Advantage (Nov 7, 2007)

It is a $1,000,000 umbrella.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

You must have gotten a different contract than I did then.


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## Advantage (Nov 7, 2007)

I would have thought they'd all be the same. Maybe they know you just have too much money laying around and figured you wouldn't mind paying a bigger premium for an unnecessarily large umbrella.


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

a large umbrella is a good plan regardless of the contract stipulations. Its cheap peace of mind IMO.


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## Snowman7 (Sep 24, 2009)

The contract that they sent me states a 4 million requirement while another contractor in the area was told they only need a million. Not sure why there is different requirements.


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## yardsmith (Jan 3, 2000)

In our area they have separate contracts for summer & winter work; so its like signing up again to a degree. I got on board this spring with the WG in our area, & my project manager was able to score the plowing agreements as well.... whew, almost didn't make it because of seniority & semantics


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## TPC Services (Dec 15, 2005)

who is SMS ??? I have been trying for years to get in to the walgreens and can get squat for info on what National or reginal does their work for them. and I have read in here plenaty of times people saying that they would never work for a company that tells them there prices to do the work. yet here we are being told what to do the work for and you guys excepting it??? just a question not a pissing match just wondering why you would change your mind  and a $4mill unbrella would double my insurance prem. I hope those are good prices. are these seasonal bids , per push or hourly??


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## Daybreak (Oct 31, 2012)

I've been plowing the Walgreens here in Marquette for years. This is the first year the plowing is being handled by SMS.


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

I have e-mailed SMS a few times about Walgreen and the dollar stores around here, no response.


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## Trim (Sep 9, 2010)

SMS is based out of Chicago. The prices are about 25% lower then they should be

If you have 4 Walgreens sites it's a 1 mil policy

If you have 5 or more walgreens sites you need 4 mil policy (That's crazy)


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Trim;1532341 said:


> SMS is based out of Chicago. The prices are about 25% lower then they should be
> 
> If you have 4 Walgreens sites it's a 1 mil policy
> 
> If you have 5 or more walgreens sites you need 4 mil policy (That's crazy)


60% lower for me. I would up having to turn it down because they would not budge on price.

Last year we plowed and salted our walgreens for $500. This year SMS wants sidewalks included. Ok $600. They want it done for $305! And the trigger at 1". I told them no way. They won't even go higher than $305. Looks like I'm out of walgreens finally. This sight is going to look like crap this year.

Oddly, I have the family dollars sidewalks. A whopping 10' of sidewalks for $75. Good price to me.


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## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

If it snowed and you have no contract and you go plow you're a fool


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

maelawncare;1532547 said:


> 60% lower for me. I would up having to turn it down because they would not budge on price.
> 
> Last year we plowed and salted our walgreens for $500. This year SMS wants sidewalks included. Ok $600. They want it done for $305! And the trigger at 1". I told them no way. They won't even go higher than $305. Looks like I'm out of walgreens finally. This sight is going to look like crap this year.
> 
> Oddly, I have the family dollars sidewalks. A whopping 10' of sidewalks for $75. Good price to me.


Wow 500 for a walgreens What is it a Super Walgreens Never seen a Walgreen lot that was very big


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

maelawncare;1532547 said:


> 60% lower for me. I would up having to turn it down because they would not budge on price.
> 
> Last year we plowed and salted our walgreens for $500. This year SMS wants sidewalks included. Ok $600. They want it done for $305! And the trigger at 1". I told them no way. They won't even go higher than $305. Looks like I'm out of walgreens finally. This sight is going to look like crap this year.
> 
> Oddly, I have the family dollars sidewalks. A whopping 10' of sidewalks for $75. Good price to me.


A one inch trigger would be pretty nice. You could milk the crap out of that. How long could it possibly take to plow off a Walgreens? Especially every inch.


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## extremepusher (Aug 24, 2011)

Is that $305 for the season or $305 per push/salting?


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## donleybrent (Oct 1, 2010)

*What!*



extremepusher;1532717 said:


> Is that $305 for the season or $305 per push/salting?


Per push. I do a Family Dollar for SMS and they pay great for my area.


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

Yea I'd say that $305 per push on a Walgreens is pretty good especially for a national and ESPECIALLY for a one inch push.


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## Oxmow (Dec 6, 2006)

*Cbre*



hoskm01;1498444 said:


> CBRE manages all of the facilities maintenance including landscaping and snow, among many others. They are a good group to know.
> 
> CBRE around here will lowball you just as much as any other NSP. They took over a shopping center I serviced around here and hired another company to do the maintenance. They asked me to bid it again and when I didn't hear from them I called them and they said my bid was 3 times what they were paying the other company. I only increased my price by 400.00 more than when I did it 2 years previous.


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Antlerart06;1532651 said:


> Wow 500 for a walgreens What is it a Super Walgreens Never seen a Walgreen lot that was very big


That includes salt. It is a rather large lot. And hilly. To top it off the drivethru never sees sun during the day. So all melt refreezes at night in the drivethru.

It takes 2 trucks 45mins to plow and normally 500lbs of salt.


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

maelawncare;1533273 said:


> That includes salt. It is a rather large lot. And hilly. To top it off the drivethru never sees sun during the day. So all melt refreezes at night in the drivethru.
> 
> It takes 2 trucks 45mins to plow and normally 500lbs of salt.


An hour and a half of plowing and 20 bucks of salt for $500 is still pretty darn good.


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

PhilFromErie;1533278 said:


> An hour and a half of plowing and 20 bucks of salt for $500 is still pretty darn good.


Yes it is. I didn't say I was a lowballer. payup


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## Wiseguyinc (Jan 31, 2007)

PhilFromErie;1532653 said:


> A one inch trigger would be pretty nice. You could milk the crap out of that. How long could it possibly take to plow off a Walgreens? Especially every inch.


No you can't milk the crap out of anything. If at any time the manager decides your service was not needed or was not up to their par they can decline to pay you.No questions asked.

SMS will also make the call sometimes.All I got was an Email telling me one of my deicing services was not going to be paid. No one ever called to ask what was up.Why I did the service. They just assumed I was trying to rip them off I guess.

Considering MY butt is on the line if someone falls it really pisses me off that they are going to micro manage me and not pay me.

Now we just had a storm that dropped rain for 4 hours that turned to sleet then snow.
I deiced 3 times so I am just waiting for the Email saying one of my services will not be covered.:realmad: This could be the only year I work for them.


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Wiseguyinc;1539171 said:


> No you can't milk the crap out of anything. If at any time the manager decides your service was not needed or was not up to their par they can decline to pay you.No questions asked.
> 
> SMS will also make the call sometimes.All I got was an Email telling me one of my deicing services was not going to be paid. No one ever called to ask what was up.Why I did the service. They just assumed I was trying to rip them off I guess.
> 
> ...


Exactly............


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

When I hear one inch trigger I figure it means just that. How can they not pay you if you are following the specs correctly?


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## Trim (Sep 9, 2010)

The catch is they want you to plow at a 1" trigger but they are only paying for two saltings per day so you might be plowing 3 or 4 times but you can only salt twice if it's a non 24 hour store 3 times if it's a 24 hour store
there is no money to be made everything will be done at cost with you assuming ALL of the liability


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

maelawncare;1533273 said:


> That includes salt. It is a rather large lot. And hilly. To top it off the drivethru never sees sun during the day. So all melt refreezes at night in the drivethru.
> 
> It takes 2 trucks 45mins to plow and normally 500lbs of salt.


How many sq ft is the lot

What are you using to plow it with


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

maelawncare;1533273 said:


> That includes salt. It is a rather large lot. And hilly. To top it off the drivethru never sees sun during the day. So all melt refreezes at night in the drivethru.
> 
> It takes 2 trucks 45mins to plow and normally 500lbs of salt.


This your Walgreens


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## Wiseguyinc (Jan 31, 2007)

PhilFromErie;1539206 said:


> When I hear one inch trigger I figure it means just that. How can they not pay you if you are following the specs correctly?


For the most part that is what it means. But the weather is being watched by sms. Plus,after every service you call in and check which service was done. Sms then sends an Email to the store. The manager then accepts that the service was done.

In my case the manager failed to accept it in the alloted time. That then sent the service as unpaid. The manager could also decline it if it was not up to their satisfaction or deemed as too frequent..

I called their 24 hour hotline about my unpaid service. He said it should not be a problem they would just resend it to the store for receipt. We'll see. If I never bother calling they would not pay me for these things. I think this could be an interesting year.Lots of hoops.


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## Advantage (Nov 7, 2007)

Feeling your pain. We are always on the ball and the lots are always bare pavement yet we occasionally get emails about deferred services. It is getting annoying.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

If it makes anyone feel better there are 2 Walgreens next to lots I do and they have looked like crap the last 4-5 years. You should see them now, just went around last night checking my lots the one Walgreens looked so so the other looked horrible. We've only had 1 push this year granted it was 16" but their one lot had 3" of pack on it, just imagine what it looks like now after we had .4" of RAIN on Saturday and the temp dropped. You get what you pay forThumbs Up


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## Wiseguyinc (Jan 31, 2007)

This is what is wrong with national service providers. They eliminate the one on one you have with the managers and complicate things.

Before I NEVER had a comlaint. Not one in 4 years. If there was a question on something the manager would call ME. I would explain and he would be good to go.

Now. SMS steps in along with a new manager . He gets an Email for services performed on a day he was not even there and he sends back that he disputes it 2 days later. Then I get an Email not explaining a thing other than that my service will not be billed to the store. I then have to call SMS to find out why.They tell me"it looks like the manager said the sidewalks did not look like they were deiced.If that has been resolved we can either "resend" it or they can have me fill out a "job report" and go get the manager to sign off on it. What a stupid arrangement. 1 step becomes 5 and I still don't know if I'll get paid for my services.

Not to gripe too much. Just venting. They tell me Walgreens wants to be the priority store on our route and then they pull this.Fast Cheap Good. Pick any two Walgreens.Fast and cheap is'nt gonna be good. Cheap and good is'nt gonna be fast.Good and fast is'nt gonna be cheap!


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

PhilFromErie;1532735 said:



> Yea I'd say that $305 per push on a Walgreens is pretty good especially for a national and ESPECIALLY for a one inch push.


That's what I was hoping to get for mine... But they tried to get me to do it for $205, then said they would raise the price to $245 after I signed the contract... Um come on, I don't have a law degree, but really? And this is for an acre lot, plowed each time 2" accumulates. Their price structure was kinda strangely written too... But they seemed pretty decent on the salting price.


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Here is the pricing they gave me. This is on a lot that I charged $250 to salt and $250 to plow. It's a PIA of a lot, not the worst, but defiantly not easy.

They wouldn't increase any of their pricing anymore. They originally came up with $250 for service #1 and I got them up to $305. No telling who they find now but the store manager is not happy.

Service 1: Plow, shovel, de-ice (salt) parking lot, loading zone & sidewalk
Service 2: Plow and shovel parking lot, loading zone & sidewalk (NO SALT, ONLY PUSHING SNOW)
Service 3: De-ice parking lot, loading zone & sidewalk (SALT ONLY)
Service 4: Shovel & De-ice Sidewalk (SIDEWALK WORK ONLY, shovel or salt or both) – this service is rarely performed. Usually only if snow falls off of an awning.


Service 1: $305
Service 2: $199
Service 3: $165
Service 4: $105 (remain as is since walks were listed as $100)


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## Trim (Sep 9, 2010)

What is the size of the lot for $305? 
They claim the highest they will go is $250 for an acre and $240-$210 for small accounts


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Trim;1541092 said:


> What is the size of the lot for $305?
> They claim the highest they will go is $250 for an acre and $240-$210 for small accounts


Its a little over 55,000 sqft. But both entry ways are a good grade and the drivethru never sees the sun. Their $250 prices were for plowing, salting and doing the sidewalk. And as others have said, if the store manager doesnt like you, they can dick you. Mine likes me and approves everything I do. But sadly, I dont' have it anymore.


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## PTTP08 (Dec 9, 2009)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1540320 said:


> If it makes anyone feel better there are 2 Walgreens next to lots I do and they have looked like crap the last 4-5 years. You should see them now, just went around last night checking my lots the one Walgreens looked so so the other looked horrible. We've only had 1 push this year granted it was 16" but their one lot had 3" of pack on it, just imagine what it looks like now after we had .4" of RAIN on Saturday and the temp dropped. You get what you pay forThumbs Up[/QUo
> 
> So what are the locations of those Walgreens? I was just givin a bunch more stores. Just tryn to find out about the stores past contractor.


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

Seriously these prices don't seem that bad, for a national especially. Most of the gripes about SMS assist also seems realitivley mild in comparison to the other nationals.


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

PhilFromErie;1541670 said:


> Seriously these prices don't seem that bad, for a national especially. Most of the gripes about SMS assist also seems realitivley mild in comparison to the other nationals.


True. I've only have ran into SMS, Brickman, Integrated, Divisions and Dentco. So far SMS is the cheapest and ****test to work for. My area rep for SMS is pretty cool though, just not the company.

So far Divisions and Dentco have been the best.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

maelawncare;1541335 said:


> Its a little over 55,000 sqft. But both entry ways are a good grade and the drivethru never sees the sun. Their $250 prices were for plowing, salting and doing the sidewalk. And as others have said, if the store manager doesnt like you, they can dick you. Mine likes me and approves everything I do. But sadly, I dont' have it anymore.


Its amazing the price in different areas

If that store was here I take it for that price I see a little profit Less then 1 hr worth of plowing
with my setup


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

Antlerart06;1541764 said:


> Its amazing the price in different areas
> 
> If that store was here I take it for that price I see a little profit Less then 1 hr worth of plowing
> with my setup


I'm with you.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

I just wish folks would STOP WORKING for the nationals!!!! This crap wouldnt be going on if we would all stand together on it but its just not gonna happen. 

Ive plowed a pamida store in gtown ohio for years. made good money. They sold and are now a shopko store. I get a phone call from Ferrandino and sons of course. pretty much right off the bat knew I wasnt going to be doing the lot for them. 

They offered me 4K per year for the lot. Plow, salt, calcium walks. place takes about 2hrs 1 truck. First off Im not a gambler so thats no. yeah yeah might have light winter. Could also go the other way. I explained to them that my average over the last years was right at 6K and they didnt want to talk.

Things were so nice before, the store manager went through many plowing contractors and then found me and has been happy and wouldnt get rid of me per that reason.

I called him up the other day to tell him what was going on and he was furious!!! Called Ferrandino and guess what. Those dumb bastards signed with one of the contractors from years ago that does horrible work. 

QUIT SUPPORTING THE NATIONALS!!!! Your just setting yourselves up to be screwed. If you havent yet, you will be soon enough. I havent yet and never will because im never gonna work for them. 

I once was told by a wise man "as a business man you make money for yourself. When you work for someone else you make THEM money". Ive never looked back since that day the old fella said that on a fishing trip with me................

I don't care how much money they wanna pay. Im not gonna line there pockets for them to do nothing, and if everyone would stand up and grow a set like me, the nationals would be no more.................................... Dont disagree either because what I said was IF EVERYONE WOULD STAND UP............... not half of us not even 3/4 of us because that wont do.................. 

Im with the Original poster.............. You don't tell me the price, im doing the work so I will tell you!!!! By the way here is MY CONTRACT. SIGN HERE. I know things are changing daily when it comes to the way business like this is done but It wouldnt be if we didnt support it............


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Antlerart06;1541764 said:


> Its amazing the price in different areas
> 
> If that store was here I take it for that price I see a little profit Less then 1 hr worth of plowing
> with my setup


Yes that is true. Because down here plowing is not a real business, if you find someone who actually has full insurance, your gonna pay for it.

We also don't have anyone within 100 mile radius that sells bulk salt. So we all go bag salt. Which as you know is a good bit more expensive.

This lot also takes 2 trucks 45-1hr to plow. Not just one truck. Could I plow it for that price? Sure I could. But I'd only be making about $30 each time, and then i'd have to deal with SMS and pray they approve all of it. $200 to plow and shovel sidewalks. We've never done the sidewalks, the store manager did. And it took him an hr to do. We plow with a f350 and chevy 3500, both with blizzard 810s. Not much more efficient you can get on it.

I picked up a lowes this year from brickman, 5 acre lot. A friend of mine plowed it last year, took him 4 hrs with 1 truck. Price is 3 times that of what SMS wants and a lot easier lot to plow. So i'll take that instead.

I'm not going to lower my prices just so I can keep busy. I'll find other lots to fill my schedule and tell SMS to take a dump on someone else.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Antlerart06;1539349 said:


> This your Walgreens


That looks like a complete pain in the a$$ to push, worth at least $500 just to plow it all day long!


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1540320 said:


> If it makes anyone feel better there are 2 Walgreens next to lots I do and they have looked like crap the last 4-5 years. You should see them now, just went around last night checking my lots the one Walgreens looked so so the other looked horrible. We've only had 1 push this year granted it was 16" but their one lot had 3" of pack on it, just imagine what it looks like now after we had .4" of RAIN on Saturday and the temp dropped. You get what you pay forThumbs Up


I have a couple next to my properties as well... Not only do they look like sh*t in the winter but summer as well.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

maelawncare;1542028 said:


> Yes that is true. Because down here plowing is not a real business, if you find someone who actually has full insurance, your gonna pay for it.
> 
> We also don't have anyone within 100 mile radius that sells bulk salt. So we all go bag salt. Which as you know is a good bit more expensive.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying
I just dont see it taking 2 trucks 45-1hr to do 1.2 acres and using big plows I see it if you was using 7.5 plows


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Antlerart06;1542058 said:


> I understand what you are saying
> I just dont see it taking 2 trucks 45-1hr to do 1.2 acres and using big plows I see it if you was using 7.5 plows


Exactly. The lot is just time consuming. The slopes make it harder and its 360 around the building. Look at it from a satellite and it looks easy. I thought it would only take 30mins with 2 trucks at first, and it can if you don't worry too much about how it looks. They have fenced in dumpsters that have to be backdragged out. The city has complained about access before. And a good bit of snow to be pushed up hill. I don't know the grade, but stand at the bottom and the top is at least 50' higher on a 100' stretch of curved entry way. You can't just make a few quick passes and be done. There's 6 different areas to be plowed and you really can't start the next till you finish the other. Not like it's just one big area with straight pushes.

Sadly, a lot of my lots are like this. I think i could do a hell of a lot better with standard cab short beds, but I cant have separate plow trucks. Lowes is going to be refreshing for straight pushes and just circling around the building windrowing. .


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

snowcrazy;1541824 said:


> I just wish folks would STOP WORKING for the nationals!!!! This crap wouldnt be going on if we would all stand together on it but its just not gonna happen.
> 
> Ive plowed a pamida store in gtown ohio for years. made good money. They sold and are now a shopko store. I get a phone call from Ferrandino and sons of course. pretty much right off the bat knew I wasnt going to be doing the lot for them.
> 
> ...


I really hope it is only a matter of time before corporations figure this out. Walmart got screwed by their national in 2010 but came out ahead in 2011. Hopefully they get screwed again and give up on nationals.

And not all nationals are bad. So you can't lump them all together. But it would be very nice to see them go. I hate that one company is in charge of all the properties in the US when every area is different. What works for a walgreens in MI will not work in MO.


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## snowbrothers101 (Jul 27, 2009)

While Walmart did get screwed in 2010, they didn't come out ahead in 2011. Their own financials report an increase in facility spend relating to snow for the 12 months following the termination of USM. It might be that while corporate isn't qualified to hire 2,000 vendors for their stores, 5,000 store managers are probably even less qualified!

Thank God for the unqualified.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

maelawncare;1542139 said:


> I really hope it is only a matter of time before corporations figure this out. Walmart got screwed by their national in 2010 but came out ahead in 2011. Hopefully they get screwed again and give up on nationals.
> 
> And not all nationals are bad. So you can't lump them all together. But it would be very nice to see them go. I hate that one company is in charge of all the properties in the US when every area is different. What works for a walgreens in MI will not work in MO.


I understand they may not all be bad but having a middle man in general hurts us guys that want to have a 1 on 1 relationship with the store and store manager. I am a people person. That is what makes me as a business man stand apart from a lot of the other jokers. The store managers I plow for have my personal cell and we are on first name basis just incase they need me asap. When a store or large business finds a good contractor, most times there gonna stick with them. The way these nationals are, there is no more 1 on 1 and that is not good business. Talking to some dam machine or ivr system is not the way.... IMHO

I don't want anyone to think my post above was to take a jab at someone working for them. Im just stating facts. If we quit supporting the nationals,(we all stick together on it!) they will be no more......... When Ferrandino, sms, any of them call I stop them dead in there first sentence and ask them if there willing to sign a contract that I wright up. I already know there answer but when they say no I say well I RUN MY BUSINESS so no Im not interested in building YOUR BUSINESS.....

I wouldnt work for them if they did want to sign my contract, I just say that to them to let them know quit calling. I ask them to take me off there call list every year. I want to Blow a gasket every time those bastards call me but its not the poor person on the other end of the lines fault. There just an employee with a job to do so I go about my aproach the way I explained above.


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## Wilnip (Oct 4, 2011)

You guys sound like truck drivers. "If we all shut down for a week, the rates will go up". Give me a break. Some people can work for nationals, some can't. Some don't do driveways, etc. A national gave me their contract and requirements and I gave them a price I would do it for. What's the issue? if you don't like em, and don't work for them, quit *****ing about them. Sorry to add to this hijacked thread.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

Wilnip;1542405 said:


> You guys sound like truck drivers. "If we all shut down for a week, the rates will go up". Give me a break. Some people can work for nationals, some can't. Some don't do driveways, etc. A national gave me their contract and requirements and I gave them a price I would do it for. What's the issue? if you don't like em, and don't work for them, quit *****ing about them. Sorry to add to this hijacked thread.


Let me make it easy for you then. If you don't see the problem with having the middle man (they will screw you give them time), then you need to open your eyes..............

The issue is (just one example) , I had a strip mall for years which I supplied good services......... Dealt with store level management which IS WHO SHOULD BE MAKING STORE LEVEL DECISIONS for things that are done such as plowing because they see the work before and after, not some idiot thats not even in the same state as the store having the plowing done. Guess who got the work. The idiots that they fired years ago. For what you might wonder. Well simply put they were billing for putting down there allowance of 65 bags for the mall per salting occurance. After realizing that nothing was melting on salt only snows they watched the video tape of the lot. 2 different snow events they were caught putting down approx 30 bags.............. So store level management fires them and finds me or good honest contractor. No problems for years then boom. National gives it to the same idiots that were screwing the place years ago.............

Now do you see the problem??????????? There is no need for a middle man!!!!! I run my own business, im not working for another business............ or growing someone elses. You want to grow there bank acct for them, thats on you.

I understand that there a lot of folks that just simply wont pass up work and Im not knocking that but I sure wish these idiots were put to a stop.

Also, if you don't think there is a problem with the nationals, do yourself a little search on how many ppl are being screwed by them!! It will be you sooner or later and just remember my post when your trying to figure out how to get your money.....


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

snowcrazy;1542697 said:


> Let me make it easy for you then. If you don't see the problem with having the middle man (they will screw you give them time), then you need to open your eyes..............
> 
> The issue is (just one example) , I had a strip mall for years which I supplied good services......... Dealt with store level management which IS WHO SHOULD BE MAKING STORE LEVEL DECISIONS for things that are done such as plowing because they see the work before and after, not some idiot thats not even in the same state as the store having the plowing done. Guess who got the work. The idiots that they fired years ago. For what you might wonder. Well simply put they were billing for putting down there allowance of 65 bags for the mall per salting occurance. After realizing that nothing was melting on salt only snows they watched the video tape of the lot. 2 different snow events they were caught putting down approx 30 bags.............. So store level management fires them and finds me or good honest contractor. No problems for years then boom. National gives it to the same idiots that were screwing the place years ago.............
> 
> ...


I agree and disagree with you.

Each national has a different contract. Some are stupid and if you read it all it can screw you if they want. I personally like the flat rate contracts, they saved my ass last year.

If you like the lot the offering. At least look at the contract and price before you kick them to the curb.


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## Dean14 (Dec 20, 2012)

Wiseguyinc;1539954 said:


> For the most part that is what it means. But the weather is being watched by sms. Plus,after every service you call in and check which service was done. Sms then sends an Email to the store. The manager then accepts that the service was done.
> 
> In my case the manager failed to accept it in the alloted time. That then sent the service as unpaid. The manager could also decline it if it was not up to their satisfaction or deemed as too frequent..
> 
> I called their 24 hour hotline about my unpaid service. He said it should not be a problem they would just resend it to the store for receipt. We'll see. If I never bother calling they would not pay me for these things. I think this could be an interesting year. Lots of hoops.


If the manager doesn't accept the email and won't even admit over the phone that any work was done, you just turn in a signed work order and get paid that way no matter what. All of these managers sign when someone is there face to face. If a customer is complaining about your work wouldn't you want to sort that out? Some things may be annoying about SMS but the service confirming is not that bad.


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## Trim (Sep 9, 2010)

SMS is making BIG money on the backs of the poor bastards who think they are making money working for $250 for a snow event. They under estimate the amount of salt being put down in the lot and sidewalks, make your take ALL the liability for falls and then tell you only to salt 2 times per day but if we get a all day storm like we are now your screwed...... after thinking about it I told them (SMS) to find another sucker to make them money and the sad thing is I'm sure they will


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## buildinon (Oct 6, 2011)

I agree with you Snowcrazy...


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Trim;1542960 said:


> SMS is making BIG money on the backs of the poor bastards who think they are making money working for $250 for a snow event. They under estimate the amount of salt being put down in the lot and sidewalks, make your take ALL the liability for falls and then tell you only to salt 2 times per day but if we get a all day storm like we are now your screwed...... after thinking about it I told them (SMS) to find another sucker to make them money and the sad thing is I'm sure they will


I dont know about your contact or the guy from rolla mo 
I had one but I got it when I went to UPPER Mich and I wasnt able turn it in on time
Mine showed Per visit not per snow event
For Walgreen's here and I wish I got it week before my trip


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Antlerart06;1542978 said:


> I dont know about your contact or the guy from rolla mo
> I had one but I got it when I went to UPPER Mich and I wasnt able turn it in on time
> Mine showed Per visit not per snow event
> For Walgreen's here and I wish I got it week before my trip


Mine was per plow as well. And a 1" trigger. They told me that they wanted me to plow while the store was open every 1". That way the snow will never get deep. If I could of got them to up their rate, it would of worked nice. I have a 24hr gas station next door. But wouldnt work on th eprice.


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## Polarismalibu (Sep 20, 2012)

Trim;1542960 said:


> SMS is making BIG money on the backs of the poor bastards who think they are making money working for $250 for a snow event. They under estimate the amount of salt being put down in the lot and sidewalks, make your take ALL the liability for falls and then tell you only to salt 2 times per day but if we get a all day storm like we are now your screwed...... after thinking about it I told them (SMS) to find another sucker to make them money and the sad thing is I'm sure they will


They called me during our big storm we had last week when the company they had do it couldn't keep up. All slip and fall liability would be on me, yet salt only when requested.. That's just asking for trouble.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

Trim;1542960 said:


> SMS is making BIG money on the backs of the poor bastards who think they are making money working for $250 for a snow event. They under estimate the amount of salt being put down in the lot and sidewalks, make your take ALL the liability for falls and then tell you only to salt 2 times per day but if we get a all day storm like we are now your screwed...... after thinking about it I told them (SMS) to find another sucker to make them money and the sad thing is I'm sure they will


Good for you! The evil of it is you are right, they will find some other poor fool. But you know, its almost one of those deals where everyone has to experience it first hand (as you did) to figure out just how bad this is. If this were done at STORE LEVEL you probably would have been able to work on the issue. After all, those are the folks that see the lot day in and day out. As I said though good for you, a lot of ppl would have kept it just to have work. If I dont feel 100 perc Im gonna get paid on commercial work Im not doing it. And once again ill say it again, NOBODY working for a sub has the same upper hand as If you deal directly with commercial and have them sign YOUR contract..... As I said before, we all own OUR BUSINESS. You sign our contracts...... If you have a lawyer draw up a contract and its signed, you can feel confy that when you do the work and KEEP BEFORE AND AFTER PICS OF EVERY STORM, you will get paid..... You sign theres, well they have loopholes to not have to pay you in theres.

This stuffs all my opinion fellas, I may be a know it all in my own little world but honestly Im enjoying talking about it. Well, actually it makes me mad but still good to exchange thoughts on it............


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

Dean14;1542928 said:


> If the manager doesn't accept the email and won't even admit over the phone that any work was done, you just turn in a signed work order and get paid that way no matter what. All of these managers sign when someone is there face to face. If a customer is complaining about your work wouldn't you want to sort that out? Some things may be annoying about SMS but the service confirming is not that bad.


Thats where it gets tricky I guess. Depends who you are. SMS has the dollar stores in our area and they called me this year ABOUT MOWING............. they said I could also get the plowing if I were interested. Anyways, I know the fella that had been doing it prior. Not gonna say he did the most beautiful work but these dollar store yards were terrible yards. Anyways, called the fella and was straight up with him. Told him they called and he was furious! He had been trying to get paid for all of april may and some of june..................................... They explained to him that he wasnt doing the IVR system correctly and had no proof that the work had been completed........... Thats just wrong, and to boot, he did everything the same the year before. It took them a while to get paid but he did get it FOR THE MOWING THE YEAR PRIOR BUT NEVER DID FOR THE MONEY OWED APRIL MAY JUNE.

Now with all that being said, he made decent money per mow but by the time he screwed him out of the 10 or so mowings at the beginning of this season, most profits gone.........

THATS WHAT I MEAN BY LOOP HOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They set us all up for failure from the get go!!!!!

How bout like it was done prior. store level signs off on the work done and sends bill to corporate. That has not failed me in several years..... May have a payment lost in the loop but it always gets solved because I always have the copy signed by the manager........


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

That's why I deal local. No nationals.


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

Wilnip;1542405 said:


> You guys sound like truck drivers. "If we all shut down for a week, the rates will go up". Give me a break. Some people can work for nationals, some can't. Some don't do driveways, etc. A national gave me their contract and requirements and I gave them a price I would do it for. What's the issue? if you don't like em, and don't work for them, quit *****ing about them. Sorry to add to this hijacked thread.


Very well said.


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## CGLC (Dec 1, 2004)

*which ones?*



NICHOLS LANDSCA;1540320 said:


> If it makes anyone feel better there are 2 Walgreens next to lots I do and they have looked like crap the last 4-5 years. You should see them now, just went around last night checking my lots the one Walgreens looked so so the other looked horrible. We've only had 1 push this year granted it was 16" but their one lot had 3" of pack on it, just imagine what it looks like now after we had .4" of RAIN on Saturday and the temp dropped. You get what you pay forThumbs Up


I work next to a few Walgreens lots and was approached by SMS which stores are you referring to?


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## TPCLandscaping (Jan 19, 2012)

just my 2 cents but i started doing some plowing for SMS for one of the family dollars this year... pricing came to about $10 bucks less than what I had wanted per a push. Sand/Salt was right on. Just got an email back showing that all my first month call-ins were approved and checks were on their way.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Wiseguyinc;1540373 said:


> This is what is wrong with national service providers. They eliminate the one on one you have with the managers and complicate things.
> 
> Before I NEVER had a comlaint. Not one in 4 years. If there was a question on something the manager would call ME. I would explain and he would be good to go.
> 
> ...


We have a couple Walgreens for them... pay isnt bad, but i agree with everything said above... we'll surely see after the payments start rolling in and you get into a battle over everything...

I don't understand the whole "get a manual signature form signed" after the fact, and after the store manager declines the service a day or two after it was performed??? None of our crew like sign offs to begin with because it opens the door for stores to ***** and gripe and demand more services when theyre busy with accounts... now you KNOW 100% your walking into a confrontation situation, I certainly don't need to be running around just to get these done, only to most likely have them refuse to sign it in person anyway!


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## stang2244 (Nov 6, 2009)

I just started doing several Walgreens this year for SMS. There is a bit of leg work involved in the beginning but as long as you follow the guidelines each storm, it's been smooth sailing. Most the stores I service are closed at the time I plow so I leave a service tag(provided by SMS) and then just swing by and get a signature on the job report after the storm. When you are standing there face to face with a Walgreens manager they all seem to gladly sign. This also saves the time spent during the actual storm. I log the work through the IVR as I'm driving to the next location. They're all 1" triggers and per push pricing. The hourly rate they all work out to is very good. The first services I did were around mid November and I had a check in my mailbox 24 days later. This system they have essentially takes the place of invoicing so the time spent evens out. I just input a sales receipt when I get the check and then take it to the bank.

I'm not saying they are all great to work with but so far my experience has been a good one.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

I just started doing several Walgreens this year for SMS..... Good experience so far...... per stang 2244

just my 2 cents but i started doing some plowing for SMS for one of the family dollars this year... per TPCLandscaping.

^^^^^^^^^^^You both JUST STARTED WORKING FOR THEM. While I hope you both have good experiences with this **** hole company you should know that they take care of everyone IN THE BEGINNING. That's how they get the hooks in. That's what they did with the two lawncare providers in my area. First times getting paid they were "SO GOOD TO WORK FOR" per one of the contractors which I know personally and did a good job..... Give it time, like I said I hope you always get paid but from what Ive seen its later when you get screwed.......... As I stated above one of these providers worked a whole year and got paid. Did nothing different the next mowing season with that joke IVR system but they said he didn't do the ivr system correctly and got burned........ These places are begging for a reason not to pay contractors plain and simple.

They haven't screwed me because I had the pleasures of seeing what they did to a few others before they called me. They couldn't pay me enough to work for them. There not going to get the chance to stick it to me.........


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## snoway63 (Dec 29, 2009)

Never catch me working for nationals i want my business to grow not theres if my insurance is covering the lot even though your plowing for a national its a no brainer why would you even go that route makes no sense they make all the money and no risk dont think so just my two cents


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

snoway63;1560061 said:


> Never catch me working for nationals i want my business to grow not theres if my insurance is covering the lot even though your plowing for a national its a no brainer why would you even go that route makes no sense they make all the money and no risk dont think so just my two cents


Bingo!!!!!! I cant stand the thought of all of us lining there pockets in an industry where they don't even own plows!!!!!!!!


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## moosehead (Sep 21, 2003)

SMS isn't bAd. No experience with landscaping but plowing has been fine. 3 inches you bang everything twice and make an average of about 400 per unit. Two service 1's on average of about 225 it's more like 450 a unit. I do about 8 Walgreens and 4 public storage. That's 5400. Running a 2.5 poly caster so Milk the whole load and maybe load up twice depending on the storm. Still great money for 4 hours of work


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

snowbrothers101;1542305 said:


> While Walmart did get screwed in 2010, they didn't come out ahead in 2011. Their own financials report an increase in facility spend relating to snow for the 12 months following the termination of USM. It might be that while corporate isn't qualified to hire 2,000 vendors for their stores, 5,000 store managers are probably even less qualified!
> 
> Thank God for the unqualified.


True, and i'll never go to bat for USM but walmart is an even crappier company and the contract stipulations between them in 2010-2011 were predominately walmarts fault, not usms... they wanted cheap service and usm tried to offer it but fell short.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

moosehead;1583546 said:


> SMS isn't bAd. No experience with landscaping but plowing has been fine. 3 inches you bang everything twice and make an average of about 400 per unit. Two service 1's on average of about 225 it's more like 450 a unit. I do about 8 Walgreens and 4 public storage. That's 5400. Running a 2.5 poly caster so Milk the whole load and maybe load up twice depending on the storm. Still great money for 4 hours of work


and after eight hours worth of work you'll still get paid for 4.

No offense, but those of you who have ONE OR TWO accounts for these management companies have no real experience on how these companies work.

There is no incentive for them to go back and forth with joe blow over one account to save $200... They save all their efforts for the companies who you'd think they'd want to retain doing the bulk of their work. instead, when you service 10, 20, 30 or more accounts for a company like SMS, you show up first on their payment information and you're the first target to knock off as many thousands as possible before payments are cut.

so do $5k in work a season for them, likely get paid for all.

do 50k, now they start not paying in full, jerking you around, withholding payments, insurance issues "even though thats always a crock", delays , more delays, even more delays, blame etc.

do 150k, or worse "more", and you'll quickly find out how devious, unscrupulous and unethical companies like SMS assist and Ferrandino & sons really are.


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

Ramairfreak98ss;1827473 said:


> and after eight hours worth of work you'll still get paid for 4.
> 
> No offense, but those of you who have ONE OR TWO accounts for these management companies have no real experience on how these companies work.
> 
> ...


And after reading this post and the many, many others that are on this site about NSP there will still be guys wanting to sign up to work for these clowns.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Ne1;1827485 said:


> And after reading this post and the many, many others that are on this site about NSP there will still be guys wanting to sign up to work for these clowns.


I'm not saying its not possible.. but you damn well better know your companies you're dealing with, know someone there more than just a business contact, know that they're local and don't feel shafted just by signing the contract. If it appears on paper that things are not in your favor, they most likely arn't.

Yet some have had no problems with one company and another is left hanging for the entire account.


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## snowbrothers101 (Jul 27, 2009)

Isn't SMS the ones that lost all of Walgreens? 5,000 sites? Crazy. I heard they do a lot of dollar stores though. You go to their website and it ways they are a technology company. I'm not even sure what they do.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

snowbrothers101;1974896 said:


> Isn't SMS the ones that lost all of Walgreens? 5,000 sites? Crazy. I heard they do a lot of dollar stores though. You go to their website and it ways they are a technology company. I'm not even sure what they do.


They built their "technology" company off all the money they stole from sub contractors doing the work.

*on another note, i believe that their "technology" is actually their software used to coordinate accounts and figure out complex algorithms for who, what and where they can rip off a little more % from to pocket themselves, to build up their business a little bit more. *


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Ramairfreak98ss;1979301 said:


> They built their "technology" company off all the money they stole from sub contractors doing the work.
> 
> *on another note, i believe that their "technology" is actually their software used to coordinate accounts and figure out complex algorithms for who, what and where they can rip off a little more % from to pocket themselves, to build up their business a little bit more. *


or have a reason not to pay you 3 months later no payment O yes you didn't fill out number 10th question when you signed up you left it blank.


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

do you think their algorithms are transparent? Or perhaps their failure to pay is because Hilary erased the information from her server. Devious, Unscrupulous, and Unethical probably sums it all up. I can only imagine what some of their salesman have to go through trying to collect their commission checks. Sometimes I think these nationals will be a entire season of American greed


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

fireball;1979362 said:


> do you think their algorithms are transparent? Or perhaps their failure to pay is because Hilary erased the information from her server. Devious, Unscrupulous, and Unethical probably sums it all up. I can only imagine what some of their salesman have to go through trying to collect their commission checks. Sometimes I think these nationals will be a entire season of American greed


I think erasing does happen

I emailed my new Ins copy and I get a reply back it was good to go

Then mid summer stop paying . I find out they said my Ins. is out dated. They sent me a copy it was last year. I told them I e-mailed it first year and I got reply back said it was good.
So I forward the e-mail. The reply I got was ( Someone erase the wrong one) I replied back I hope you put that 2500 in the mail tomorrow about 5 days later it showed up. 2 months late


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

I just love it when they get caught in their own bullcrap Antler. Nice zinger.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Antlerart06;1979731 said:


> I think erasing does happen
> 
> I emailed my new Ins copy and I get a reply back it was good to go
> 
> ...


yeah that sounds like them, but their ploy still worked right? they delayed you and paid later than they wanted to pay you so they keep doing it.


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