# stop plowing across the street.



## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

I lost a dw right before a storm the other day. Some guy undercut me by a few dollars and the kid wanted to save money.

Yes he has a contract but he's a college kid and doesn't understand.

Anyways the dw is all sunken in and there's nowhere really to put snow. The new guy told the kid he'd clean it out better than i did.

Well i went today to get my $, and all he did was drive up the dw and push all the snow down the dw and out into/across the street. The banks on the street are huge so i wouldnt think he's able to push it back past the bank.

The dw is on route 9, 45mph zone, right before/after a blind turn, double yellow lines. I'm getting so sick of seeing other people pushing snow across the street. Or having homeowners tell me that's "how" to plow their driveway.

99% of the time it's perfectly adequate to simply pile the snow at the end of the driveway and push it from the road onto the homeowners property off the dw.

On heavily trafficked roads with moderately high speed limits i think it's moronic to push snow across. I'd be equally worried of being smashed into while i was doing it too.....

hey maybe i would have quoted a few bucks less on the dw if i was planning on having the state do half the job.

The bylaw in my town reads: "No person, other than an employee in the service of the town or an employee in the service of an independent contractor acting for the town, shall pile, push or plow snow or ice onto a town way so as to impede the flow of traffic on such way." The fine is $50


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

the town over from me has this bylaw: "No person shall remove or cause to be removed snow or ice from any privately owned premises and deposit it on any way, sidewalk or public parking place. Violation of this by-law shall be punished by a fine of not over fifty dollars."

http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/source/mass/bylaws.html


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## Mrplow247 (Dec 3, 2010)

i agree with this, i hate customers that say they dont want piles so push it across the street, my answer is always no, or ill charge you 200 extra in case i get caught doing it 4 times i can pay the fine.


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## supercuts (Dec 8, 2009)

i dont push it across the street, but i understand why some do. where i live its more of a norm. i could care less if the get it off the road. what i have a problem with is when they cant get it up over the curb, leave the pile in the street and leave a 12" streak across the road. so, when your driving down the road, you cant see the white on white piles and clip a large pile with yoru plow.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

The worst part isn't the fine. It's the liability.

If you push across the street, and someone ends up losing control there and blaming it on you. You're pretty much automatically at fault.

I can see if they try to fine you, you could say that "noone was impeded" or "i didn't leave ANY snow in the rd every drop was off the rd when i left" but that stuff doesnt fly when the cops are looking at a car accident and your big snow bank on the side of the street leading right from the dw you plow.

The proof is in the pudding sometimes so to speak you know?? 

What if somebody gets hurt??????


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## D&E (Nov 7, 2010)

I try as best I can to never push it across the road, but in some cases you really don't have any options. I have one house with a sunken in apron. The whole drive can be pushed into a turn-around off to the side, but there's no way to run a plow over the apron without tripping the blade if you're trying to push it towards the driveway. The only way to do it is to push the little bit from the apron across the street and up and over the curb. If I do it any other way I'm tearing out huge pieces of cement. 

I guess if you MUST do it, do it right and get it up and well over the curb so it's not a hazard to motorists, and for the love of god don't leave trails in the road. I hate that.

My city has a law that snow must remain on the property it fell on. I just don't see any possible way around it sometimes, though.


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## Mrplow247 (Dec 3, 2010)

D&E;1210980 said:


> I try as best I can to never push it across the road, but in some cases you really don't have any options. I have one house with a sunken in apron. The whole drive can be pushed into a turn-around off to the side, but there's no way to run a plow over the apron without tripping the blade if you're trying to push it towards the driveway. The only way to do it is to push the little bit from the apron across the street and up and over the curb. If I do it any other way I'm tearing out huge pieces of cement.
> 
> I guess if you MUST do it, do it right and get it up and well over the curb so it's not a hazard to motorists, and for the love of god don't leave trails in the road. I hate that.
> 
> My city has a law that snow must remain on the property it fell on. I just don't see any possible way around it sometimes, though.


could plow across street then re argue the rule that it must remain on the property it fell on!!!!!
Just say you witnessed that snow blow across the street onto the dw that is your customer and by law you were just replacing it.


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## lawnproslawncar (Dec 9, 2007)

This is why I'm considering going 100% snowblowing on residential and small commercial lots.


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## KEC Maintaince (Jan 1, 2011)

i see guys do it all the time and they know its illegeal but they dont care
my question is cant the driver plow it into the street then push it to the side then pile it on the customers lawn in front of customers house. yes its more work but it would be on the customers lawn instead of being on some one elses property then if some one does crash into it its the customers snow not the plow guys problem.
is this right or still wrong...


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

alot of people push across the street here (me included) we even put it in the windrows the city leaves and let them use a blower to load it in city trucks
we dont leave a mess in the street and no one complains
nice to live in small town America


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## sven1277 (Jan 15, 2008)

We have some places where we don't have a choice but to push across the street. I would prefer not to however. We push it far enough up so that the town trucks don't touch it. We also clean the windrows. Its easy with a scoop plow.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

KEC Maintaince;1211137 said:


> i see guys do it all the time and they know its illegeal but they dont care
> my question is cant the driver plow it into the street then push it to the side then pile it on the customers lawn in front of customers house. yes its more work but it would be on the customers lawn instead of being on some one elses property then if some one does crash into it its the customers snow not the plow guys problem.
> is this right or still wrong...


Still wrong. You can be sued for anything, in the end the judge decides.

The name of the game is limiting your liability and weighing risk vs reward. In the end i just find plowing across the street not worth it at all.

There's always other ways to finish the job, and if it takes longer following the rules then you bill the job accordingly. Cutting corners to save other people money while you take the risk is foolish IMO.

I think most liability underwriters would settle if the facts of the case were the contractor illegally pushed across the street, supposedly resulting in damages. Usually if everyone else is following the rules except you, you'll get the blame, even if it's noones fault.


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## KEC Maintaince (Jan 1, 2011)

cjasonbr;1211355 said:


> Still wrong. You can be sued for anything, in the end the judge decides.
> 
> The name of the game is limiting your liability and weighing risk vs reward. In the end i just find plowing across the street not worth it at all.
> 
> ...


i think i typed it wrong .
what i was trying to say lets say you plow a circular drive in one side out the other. 
when you plow and get to the other side push the the snow to the street not all the way then turn the truck and plow the snow into the the customers property.
the snow will be on the customers property just staked near one of the entrances off the road and out of the drive.
the reason why im asking is i dont want to do it wrong


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

Yes, we have the same law here but much more expensive fine. BTW its very dangerous for the smaller cars passing by when guys leave windrows across the street. Its not their property on the other side of the road. You wouldnt throw your garbage across the street would you? I beep/yell/flash etc at anyone i see doing that and point into the driveway.


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

I saw a guy tonight (he's been doing it all season) pushing snow from a driveway, onto the street into a pile, then 100' up the the intersection, making a pile there, then moving the pile another 100' down that street into a vacant lot. He tied up the road impeding traffic for a good 15 minutes. I called the po-po on him because I was traffic he was impeding. I gladly gave them the address of the driveway he was working in, and the name on the truck. They said they would send an officer over. Unfortunately I wasn't around to see if they got there before he was done. That **** pisses me off.


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

When I push into the street (never all the way across it)...LMAO...the city (cdot) is there to plow it away within 5 min.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

Sometimes you just have to do it...thats how it is, hope you don't get caught and typically, as long as you clean it up and cause no real problems, the cops wont give you crap...its the same as the law that says you cant put things in mailboxes, I've left bills in mailboxes before, not my first choice but you gotta leave it somewhere


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

i push mine across the street, with my wheeler, i have a ditch that i fill and then drive on it so i am actually 10' in the air, and i clean it well and then the boys drive by with the town plow and its clean again to look like the rest of the road, 

i hate the guys that are too lazy to clean it and you take off your lower valance goin thru it.


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## Maleko (Sep 20, 2004)

IMAGE;1211975 said:


> I saw a guy tonight (he's been doing it all season) pushing snow from a driveway, onto the street into a pile, then 100' up the the intersection, making a pile there, then moving the pile another 100' down that street into a vacant lot. He tied up the road impeding traffic for a good 15 minutes. I called the po-po on him because I was traffic he was impeding. I gladly gave them the address of the driveway he was working in, and the name on the truck. They said they would send an officer over. Unfortunately I wasn't around to see if they got there before he was done. That **** pisses me off.


 WOW..
i would have held my train horns on till my tank ran out. Stuff like that pissed me off..

I was driving down the road the other day when harry Home owner was snow blowing his walk right into the middle off the street. Wasnt paying attention at all as i got close i stopped to make sure he would stop blowing snow at me in the middle of the street. he had no clue i was there as well as other cars on the other side waiting.

So i blasted him with the train horns, he jumped so freakin high i think he 
made do do...:laughing: I still laugh about it .... man that was funny


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

KEC Maintaince;1211572 said:


> i think i typed it wrong .
> what i was trying to say lets say you plow a circular drive in one side out the other.
> when you plow and get to the other side push the the snow to the street not all the way then turn the truck and plow the snow into the the customers property.
> the snow will be on the customers property just staked near one of the entrances off the road and out of the drive.
> the reason why im asking is i dont want to do it wrong


Just push it up to the edge of the dw and stop before it gets pushed on the rd. So the snow is piled up at the end of the dw. Then drive over it and while your truck is on the street where you have a good angle plow it off into the person yard. The snow never leaves the persons property.



JTVLandscaping;1212086 said:


> Sometimes you just have to do it...thats how it is, hope you don't get caught and typically, as long as you clean it up and cause no real problems, the cops wont give you crap...its the same as the law that says you cant put things in mailboxes, I've left bills in mailboxes before, not my first choice but you gotta leave it somewhere


The liability for leaving a piece of paper in a container made for holding pieces of paper is lower than leaving piles/strips/any of snow in the street.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

Theoretical scenerio:

You are plowing snow across the street. Before you finish a car comes expecting you to get out of their way (like they always do. Some barely slow down). You get out of their way and like i said you "haven't finished", so there's still strip of snow in the street. The person drives over them loses control, hits a tree, and dies.

Town bylaw says plowing across the street and/or leaving snow in the street is illegal.

Do you think you would go to jail? 

Do you think the family would sue your pants off?


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## Jumanji (Dec 22, 2010)

cjasonbr;1212953 said:


> Theoretical scenerio:
> 
> You are plowing snow across the street. Before you finish a car comes expecting you to get out of their way (like they always do. Some barely slow down). You get out of their way and like i said you "haven't finished", so there's still strip of snow in the street. The person drives over them loses control, hits a tree, and dies.
> 
> ...


In New York, you would probably get a ticket and yes, you would be civilly liable. Sometimes you don't really have a choice but to plow across the street. I'm a police officer in New York, but as far as I'm aware, plowing across the street, in and of it's self, is not illegal (unless there's a specific a town ordinance against it) but the act of leaving snow in the roadway is - whether it's from a shovel, a snowblower or a plow.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

Jumanji;1213704 said:


> In New York, you would probably get a ticket and yes, you would be civilly liable. Sometimes you don't really have a choice but to plow across the street. I'm a police officer in New York, but as far as I'm aware, plowing across the street, in and of it's self, is not illegal (unless there's a specific a town ordinance against it) but the act of leaving snow in the roadway is - whether it's from a shovel, a snowblower or a plow.


It's not a state law in MA. But every town that i work in, that i've checked, has a bylaw against it.

Would it be against the law for someone to plow private property that doesn't belong to them without authorization in NY? Well the same law would apply to public property technically.

Even if there is no bylaw that doesn't give you the right to drop a 1000# plow and push it doen a street that does not belong to you.

People think that just because snow falls from the sky that they can do whatever the hell they want with it and it's hunky dory. If you substitute SNOW for any other object then suddenly it sounds a lot worse.

What if you were plowing nails, acorns, donuts, or sugar cookies down the street? Is that not illegal??????????

Just because it's snow makes no difference, but everyone thinks common sense doesn't apply if it falls out of the sky.


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## Lawn Enforcer (Mar 20, 2006)

I've done it when I have no place to go (like after the huge storm we had here in December) but it's only on the side streets with little traffic and I always make sure to clean up after myself. Some lots there is nowhere to go and the snow is pushed into the street and the city picks it up.


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## plowfever (Nov 2, 2010)

I guess I'm guilty as charged cause I push across the road all the time. I have a factory that when I clean the main entrance I push it across the street over the curb and down into a creek type of thing. I leave nothing behind except clean pavement I even salt that part of the road when I'm done. Never had any complaints and don't intend on doing it another way. The way I look at it is the city plows the road and piles it along the entrance so why don't I just clean off a big enough area where I don't have to keep coming back to clean off the cities mess.


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## mwalsh9152 (Dec 30, 2008)

the only place I do it is in my own driveway. I live on a small street that has 6 houses on it, 3 of us in a culdesac. I push out and then stack it in the culdesac, cleaning up what is usually a poor job by the town plow at the same time, pushing his banks back usually 5' and doubling the height too, cleaning corners etc.


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## KEC Maintaince (Jan 1, 2011)

cjasonbr;1212924 said:


> Just push it up to the edge of the dw and stop before it gets pushed on the rd. So the snow is piled up at the end of the dw. Then drive over it and while your truck is on the street where you have a good angle plow it off into the person yard. The snow never leaves the persons property.
> 
> thats exactly what i am talking about. :salute:


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## Cassy (Aug 10, 2006)

we're not supposed to plow it across the street, but there are some neighborhoods where we have to, just for a lack of places to put snow. but we always plow the street clean of all windrows and such.


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## Dissociative (Feb 28, 2007)

am i the only one who will go out of his way to come back to a azzhat who either plowed into the road or snow blowed into the road in front of their driveway ONLY to angle the blade as i go by and put it all back..

hell sometimes i even go by a few times back and forth adding more back into the driveway....


you should see their faces sitting there with their Toro blower as i give em the "glacial facial"....which is NOT what i was doing with that girl behind the bar the other night..


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## plowfever (Nov 2, 2010)

Dissociative, I been meaning to get back to you on my strobe we talked about the other day I been super busy. Ill give you a call soon.


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## Bigrd1 (Dec 4, 2010)

Dissociative;1215302 said:


> am i the only one who will go out of his way to come back to a azzhat who either plowed into the road or snow blowed into the road in front of their driveway ONLY to angle the blade as i go by and put it all back..
> 
> hell sometimes i even go by a few times back and forth adding more back into the driveway....
> 
> you should see their faces sitting there with their Toro blower as i give em the "glacial facial"....which is NOT what i was doing with that girl behind the bar the other night..


I hate those damn people that snow blow and plow into the street (and leave it there). I do the streets for a sub and can't stand the people that will be out there blowing the snow back into the street. An then they stop you and say oh hey i have a bad back can you not plow so much snow back into my driveway. Thats when I ask them if they stop the county plows and ask them the same thing. Its funny watching them walking away with a 2 foot windrow at the end of their driveway. Sorry to go on and on but that just ticks me off!!!


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## Jumanji (Dec 22, 2010)

cjasonbr;1214526 said:


> It's not a state law in MA. But every town that i work in, that i've checked, has a bylaw against it.
> 
> Would it be against the law for someone to plow private property that doesn't belong to them without authorization in NY? Well the same law would apply to public property technically.
> 
> ...


Mmmmmm, donuts...

I think alot of this boils down to intent and due care. Anybody can sue anyone for anything. I agree that plowing across the street is not a good practice and I can almost always avoid it.

If you're tying up traffic by pushing a snow pile 100 feet down the road, then you're obstructing traffic and you get a ticket - if someone gets hurt because of your actions or a condition you created, then you would be liable.

In the same light, if you happen to be backing out of a driveway while plowing and get into an accident with a vehicle traveling on the roadway, you're gonna to be at fault no matter how many rotators, LED's and strobes your truck has on it, because the vehicle on the road has the right of way. Sometimes s*** just happens even if you're careful, so you need to evaluate risk versus reward and maybe even put others before yourself occasionally (not you personally, Jason,).

The only difference between snow and the other items that you mentioned (except maybe the acorns) is that snow is naturally occurring and it's considered both a hazard and an inconvenience. Thus, certain exceptions are made, ie. the noise ordinance does not apply in my jurisdiction to snow removal equipment at any time of day.

Just things to think about.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

Jumanji;1215413 said:


> Mmmmmm, donuts...
> 
> I think alot of this boils down to intent and due care. Anybody can sue anyone for anything. I agree that plowing across the street is not a good practice and I can almost always avoid it.
> 
> ...


noise ordinance technically _would_ apply unless the ordinance stipulates otherwise, and i'm sure the ordinance would provide exceptions.

Officer's obviously need to use common sense however. Personally i would not compare the noise of doing work to the act of plowing snow across the street. Making noise while your working with heavy equipment is inherent, and pushing snow across the street i would classify as a shortcut.

I appreciate what you're saying but to use an overused quote: "You're proving my point!". Most officers think the same way you, and most people do. That pushing snow across the street is just the way it is. Most policeman are good enough to give plow drivers the benefit of the doubt, even for plowing across the street. IMO i don't think they should. In the end if snow can't be plowed legally it's the homeowners problem.

If the snow originated on the street, then maybe it's free game. But pushing _anything_ from private property ONTO the street is and should be illegal.


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## Winter Land Man (Aug 9, 2005)

It's legal to plow snow across the street in my town. Plowing across the street is allowed in NH (or at least the town I'm in)... but no piles can be left out. From the town report... _"While it is legal to plow snow across the road, the snow must be removed and not left in the road. Depositing snow in the road creates a hazard to everyone"_

I must say, only one place I ever plowed, did I ever have to plow snow across the street. The driveway, well technically a private road, circled a huge building and a ton of gardens, and the 7'6" plow just barely fit through the place... angled! And the private road had stone posts on both sides of both ends of it. Once leaving the road, there was no place to put the snow, so I plowed the snow literally onto the town common (the town didn't mind at all).


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## CHCSnowman (Nov 11, 2006)

I think someone needs to give buttercup a hug.......it's snow, not brain surgery!


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## mwalsh9152 (Dec 30, 2008)

my neighbor across the streets plow guy has decided that this year he is going to push out of their driveway instead of into it. And instead of putting it into the mountainous piles in the culdesac, hes just pushing it across the street onto my sidewalk. The downside is its right next to my mailbox making it hard to get to....the upside is at least the nitwit wont back over my mailbox again this year then claim it wasnt him. 

I'm gonna have a lil chat with him if I ever happen to be home when hes there


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

I was plowing for my town and there was one guy that would always leave a pile IN THE STREET for me to push which would all end up in his accross the street neighbors driveway. One late storm he must have been packing his pile all night because when I hit it I slid into the oncoming lane. I called the cops and waited because I wanted to make sure this dope got nailed.


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## Jumanji (Dec 22, 2010)

unimogr;1222985 said:


> I was plowing for my town and there was one guy that would always leave a pile IN THE STREET for me to push which would all end up in his accross the street neighbors driveway. One late storm he must have been packing his pile all night because when I hit it I slid into the oncoming lane. I called the cops and waited because I wanted to make sure this dope got nailed.


I'm digging your 'Mog. I've always wanted one, not that I'd really have a use for it.


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## loudcav (Jan 24, 2011)

when doing my own drive I always clean up from the township plow I figure hes got more important things to worry about than if hes pushing snow up into my drive and around my mailbox


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## NBI Lawn (Oct 15, 2007)

I can honestly say that in 12 years of plowing I have never pushed any snow across a street. If you do it right and think about it for 2 seconds there IS a place on the property to pile the snow. Just remember at the beginning of the season to push it back way far because if its the only place it will fill up, plan ahead. Thinking and planning can go a long ways.


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