# Salt Shack Expansion



## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Shack on LHS is full with about 70 ton of salt, needed more room so...........emailed coverall got no response. Got blocks and lumber and 3 farm boys. That nice empty corner was full of trailers, tires,shelving etc, time to build.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Very easy to place blocks w/shovel.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Day 2, framing begins.


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## chcav1218 (Jul 31, 2008)

It must have been a pain in the a$$ to get those mud sills down and the leveling sills level. It's hard enough to do it on a concrete footing. Looks good so far. Keep teh pictures coming.


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## jayman3 (Jan 18, 2006)

Looking good Black,You don't have any salt storage for your downtown accounts.Is Uillet the one that does all your sub work.Do you know of anyone that would be intersted in some extra work to run my Hoe.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Sadly no downtown salt storage yet.
Ullett supplies me w/ 5 pcs of equipment another guy supplies 4 pcs.
I'll ask around for hoe operator.


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## jayman3 (Jan 18, 2006)

That is too bad,got my list from Franick for salting should keep me busy for about six hrs so shoul ddo o.k. with it.I could use a guy just as a backup seeing as my main operator is still paving,hopefully be done by Friday,I can't wait til I am done work too.Even if it is a guy to drive my truck but has to be careful as my plow has those pro wings now.Thanks


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## bakerc8 (Jun 11, 2008)

nice cat i whant to see some after shots 2


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

*Day 3*

Creative told me a big storm was coming Sun. night so we didn't work on the w/e. After staying up late counting raindrops and waiting for nothing, we got a late start today.
See how cell phones have made life better........1 call = 2 not working.


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## SnowPro93 (Oct 25, 2006)

Looks good. What the height of the opening?


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## Supper Grassy (May 31, 2007)

Looks good


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

10 feet door


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## PORTER 05 (Dec 28, 2005)

ya i always catch my workers behind the truck talking on their cell phones, i love how they hide from me.:yow!::realmad:


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## Oak Hills (Nov 30, 2008)

sweet cat...... lets see the finished pics


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

you have more patience than i do id throw that phone in the dumpster. really hes there to work imo


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## Farm Boss (Jan 20, 2007)

IPLOWSNO;658270 said:


> you have more patience than i do id throw that phone in the dumpster. really hes there to work imo


Are we really going to be that picky, as it seams like its not a 911 crisis if he is talking on the phone. After all, if you go by that theory toss the camera in the dumpster and get working.

Looks like a nice project!!! Hope it turns out the way you wanted!


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

And the beat goes on, good progress today, the whole thing is getting expensive but whatcha gonna do.  Notice float can carry spare snow bucket.


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## jayman3 (Jan 18, 2006)

Hey Black is that grit already in that shed, guess you couldn't wait til it was built to try it out.


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## Mid-Ohio Scaper (Aug 17, 2008)

What does one of those fabric/steel shelters bolted right down on top of your concrete block run? It seem like it would be a lot less time and material. IMO
check these out:www.northwestcoverall.com


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## rebelplow (Jan 30, 2008)

mid ohio- it seems you missed his second sentence in the original post.
"emailed coverall got no response"

I think a coverall was his first intention.... but when you need a shed, you can wait around for coverall to get back to you.


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## Mid-Ohio Scaper (Aug 17, 2008)

I did miss that. But still, I googled fabric and steel shelters and found three other companies that do the same thing. I'm sure another company would pick up where coverall fell short. But hey, that's neither here nor there. He's already started, if not finished the shelter so I guess this is for future reference.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Very overloaded this fall not much time to do all the investigating prior to building,maybe cover all or similar for the next one. Also you guys in the states seem to have more suppliers and better pricing. blah blah blah


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

*Curse of the Snow Gods*

So things are going along nicely until until the only building inspector in my area stops by.
My existing salt shack has been up 3 yrs. Thx Tim. :waving:
My assumption was that a non permanant structure without a foundation did not require a building permit. WRONG!!!!!!
Now both shacks are in question, he forced us to stop work until I get a permit and oh by the way I'm to close to the lot line and those walls will have to be fire retardant. There's a field on one side and a metal fence that belongs to a towing company behind my shack.:yow!:
Gotta go down to city hall in the am and start the process. The best part is that the permit will cost about $5K ,holy f**k. 
It really wasn't a good day today.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

BlackIrish;659845 said:


> Very overloaded this fall not much time to do all the investigating prior to building
> 
> I'm a d u m b a s s :crying:
> 
> Gonna pay now.


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## jayman3 (Jan 18, 2006)

:realmad::realmad:Are they f***ing crazy 5k,guess that inspector will get a nice christmas bouns now.


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## LawnProLandscapes (Nov 15, 2007)

ouch that has to hurt


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

There goes the $4K in resis you sold over the phone! :crying: That permit cost seems awfly high for a shack 

Wow, that structure sure does look well constructed!! Its almost as if you were a roofer or somethin! LOL  :waving:


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

No kidding, I'm peaking.
Sure kick a guy when he's down C.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

BlackIrish;660525 said:


> No kidding, I'm peaking.
> Sure kick a guy when he's down C.


That sucks, we have never got permits but a Coverall is up in a day. Hope you get it worked out.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

Just curiouse if you did a coverit type building would you still need a permit or was it because it is framed with wood? 

$5 K for a permit are they kidding your not building a house the permit cost more than the would to build that.


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## rebelplow (Jan 30, 2008)

$ 5k is crazy! I'm doing a whole house remodel and my permit was $380. Hopefully he was just trying to scare you. Then again the money could add up.... if he makes you get a permit for the new building....plus the old building...plus the fines for not having a permit to begin with (usually the fine doubles the permit cost), late fees, etc. Sounds like it could get costly. Keep us updated.


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

your employee was talkin to the inspector in that one pic, i knew it .

your inspector is a dick lol, hope it works out for you


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

That sucks. We paid 5k for our Dome Shelter, and like Dave said, up in 1 day, no permit req'd.


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

$5k for the permit...I'm so happy the USA does not have the health care system like our neighbors to the north does...Yet.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Johnny where did you get your cover? 
FYI inspector said cover all would need a permit also.


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## jayman3 (Jan 18, 2006)

:yow!:Hey Black,maybe you have some jealous contractors out there,it's not like you are right in town eh.Hope it works out for you,that isn't Ottawa right.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

BlackIrish;661232 said:


> Johnny where did you get your cover?
> FYI inspector said cover all would need a permit also.


Mine is small, 18X26X14 ft tall, and we put it on 6 ft of blocks. We got it from www.domeshelter.com. I think it was just under 5K. We put a full zip door on the front and vented the back wall, plus had them ad some more material to drape down over the tops of the blocks, and make the door 6 ft longer so it came right down to the ground. They're located in Toronto, and manufacture on site, they dont import crap from china. Theres a pic of it in my pics on my profile i think.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

BlackIrish;661232 said:


> Johnny where did you get your cover?
> FYI inspector said cover all would need a permit also.


You do need a permit for a Coverall but since it goes up in one day, generally there is no problems. I just had an addition put on my shop and the building permit was $245 for 1200 sq/ft, so not sure where the 5k came from.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

M&M;661163 said:


> $5k for the permit...I'm so happy the USA does not have the health care system like our neighbors to the north does...Yet.


Yeah because buiding permits is what pays for it.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Shhh.. I never got a permit...dont tell anyone. Didnt last time either and it was bigger.


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## deckboys (Dec 1, 2006)

wow. looks good.. the inspector must have been real bored..
http://www.cdnshelters.com/about.php
this place is here in windsor, on area... 
just for next time or anyone else wanting some ideas


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## Jello1 (Jan 17, 2008)

Being a senior crew leader for an insulation co. I'm pretty familiar with inspections and permits etc. And these past few years alot of townships have regulation on wanting permits for even carports around here.
Unless Canada is alot different. $5000 is ridiculous. Assuming you'll have power for lights etc. I'll assume you'll only need a electrical,framing and final inspection. No need for plumbing, drywall inspections etc. So it is normally substantially cheaper than say building a house. 

Also, does the inspector know how long the coverall has been there. Tell him it was there when you got the property. Aka: grandfathered in. If not get your receipt out, and find when they began wanting permits for these types of things. In the USA it's only been 2-3 years or less. So you may be grandfathered in anyways.

Anyways good luck.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Yesterday he told me to see him this am, I went but he was out,of course 5 mins after I got back to the shop he calls me and accuses me of working on the extension, we weren't.
I drive back to city hall. 
Permit and development fee $1931. Total footage of both shacks is 1100 sq ft. Existing shack is grandfathered BUT its square footage is factored into $1931 cost
$500 to apply for a variance since we are close to lot line, says I need 25' clearance at rear and 7' on side. I have 4' and 1.5'. No guarantee on approval of variance. Just what I need a salt shack in the middle of my yard.
Need an engineer to approve mafia block foundation, 2 ton blocks are usually unstable I guess, IF it gets approved I will have to cement all the cracks and parge exterior and modify existing 2 walls so that they have a 2 hr fire rating. Wants laminated beams here and there because obviously the framing as is won't support a tarp. 
Lots of veiled threats about taking me to court.
I have a meeting with an engineer Monday am, in the meantime elves will put the tarp on this weekend. Which of course will send the 25yr old inspector into orbit on monday. At least my grit will be dry. 
If I have to go to court hopefully it will be spring and I'll take it apart b4 the day. If I had thrown 2x40ft shipping containers together no permit req'd. 
And cities wonder why people don't bother with permits. :angry:


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Hey Black, check out "When Creative gets By-Lawed" http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=64475&highlight=creative+gets+by-lawed 
It friggin sucks, so I feel your frustration. But yeah when things settle down in a couple of weeks, I'll come by & show you our new Kubota tractor!


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Best news I've had in 2 days.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

what a bunch of BS most commercial you can build right up to lot line . lamanyed beams ,engineers what the hell does this guy thing your building a 100K sq ft building? half of those inspectors don't have a clue or are builders that went bacnk rupt and now hold a cushie job with the town?


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

or young and trying to make a name for himself, I'm surrounded by open land, nearest bldg is 400ft + away.................


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Watch Black win the lottery all of a sudden now!


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Bless those elves,shack is useable. Now for the crap storm from the inspector on Monday. Gotta go plow now..............


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

BlackIrish;665635 said:


> Bless those elves,shack is useable. Now for the crap storm from the inspector on Monday. Gotta go plow now..............


You finished the roof, good for you. The inspector is going to flip out. LOL


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## Supper Grassy (May 31, 2007)

Looks good....inspector is gunna FLIP!!!!


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## jimaug87 (Feb 15, 2007)

I'd like to hear an audio recording of what happens when the inspector comes by


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## cantoo (Dec 27, 1999)

Black, put a big Christmas bow on the front and a note saying " To BlackIrish for being such a good boy all year" love Santa
Tell the inspector you didn't believe in Santa until now.I don't think Santa has to get permits?


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## stillen (Dec 7, 2003)

just apeal all this BS, then appeal again.. by the time u get to go to court for it, it'll be spring... Then just throw a few gallons of gas on it, and torch it.... You can colect on the insurance and the building inspector wil have no grounds to fine you becasuse the building wont be there....


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## plowindiesel (Feb 20, 2008)

i know your pain black. an inspector from a suburb on the west side of cleveland has been a dick to my boss ever since my boss told him to go f himself two years ago because he wouldnt pass him on a building only because the fire caulking around a bunch of soffets was not smoothed out. now my boss can't even go to an inspection in that city. half of the inspectors i have come across have no prior experience with building or any type of construction, they just throw the book at ya anytime they get the chance. hope it all works out!


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## Supper Grassy (May 31, 2007)

So what was his reaction?


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## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

FWIW I'd skip the idea of laminated lumber and go with trusses. Usually the lumber Co. or the truss MFG will do all of the engineering for you for free.

This is my shed. It replaced a coverit shelter too.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Supper Grassy;670487 said:


> So what was his reaction?


I haven't heard boo from him, he must be off sick.


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

real nice guy just leave ya hanging


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## Supper Grassy (May 31, 2007)

BlackIrish;670834 said:


> I haven't heard boo from him, he must be off sick.


Thats good i guess


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

Maybe he got fired! That would be to good to be true I guess. I hate inspectors.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Unless he's prepping court documents, to date everything has been verbal,nothing in writing. No news is good news I guess.


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## chcav1218 (Jul 31, 2008)

most building inspectors around here are on a dont ask dont tell basis. If you dont tell them uer building something, theyre not gonna ask, even if you dont have a permit. theyre busy enough as it is.


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

BlackIrish;670856 said:


> Unless he's prepping court documents, to date everything has been verbal,nothing in writing. No news is good news I guess.


more like the calm before the storm eh? Good luck with him. I hope it doesn't take to much to get it finished so he's happy.


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## wewille (Jan 20, 2009)

What ever happened with your building? Did you get to finish it?


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

LOL
Nope, still waiting for engineer to fiddle with township requests.
What the township wants is pretty extreme and this is definitely a slow journey.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

that turned out to be more then you expected!


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## sjosephlawncare (Jan 17, 2008)

I know HERE that it's illegal for a building inspector to even look, document, use binoculars, or step foot on your property with out a building permit. That building should not have been "noticed" by your building inspector. All you should need is a ZONING permit, not a building permit, unless its occupied, which it isn't. I would look into legal actions in your interest against the building compliance department.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Chances are that township regs and stuff up here could be diff than Ohio.
In any event my masterpiece is truly visible from the main road and anywhere else in a 270 degree arc. So all he had to do was look to his left as he drove buy or fuel at the gas bar and there she be 175 ft away.
I'm zoned commercial, that was never an issue.
I applied for and received a variance because I was really really close to the property line.
Township wants it built in such a manner that if I ever leave, and the new guy wants to work out of his new assembly shack, he will be able to do so safely. Gimme a break.
Had I known the true cost, cash meter is still running, of this project I would have done something else. Like 10 x 40ft shipping containers.
Hindsite is a 100 % 
Eventually the shack will get done but its a friggin' slow process each step takes months.


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## wewille (Jan 20, 2009)

wow that sucks man. I feel for ya we tried putting up a new shop and it took three years for our village pito approve it. We wasted so much money getting the thing approved we have to wait and build our funds back up to start building the thing!!!! Its amazing how these knuckleheads can mess things up for hard working people.


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## Elite Property Services (Oct 28, 2008)

Near me the local inspector drives around every day looking for illegal activity. My neighbor got busted over a stupid 10x10 shed and not getting a permit. The word is he is slow so he is trying to justify his job. I cant take all the bs politics:realmad:


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Gov't jobs are the best I guess.


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## Kuzanut (Jan 18, 2009)

One thing i've learned about dealing with building inspectors is that they seem always give ya less crap os ya have a nice hot cup of coffee waiting for them when they come to do there inspection. also works if your going to see him. Best of luck to ya.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Finally got bldg permit Feb 4-10, no snow up here so I took advantage and started the shack reno.
A ridiculous amount of work to cover salt and grit..........
As you can see I'm a little close to the lot line :laughing:


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Wouldnt it have been easier (and cheaper) to just put a coverall on blocks?


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Yes it would have, but then the city would've made me put it in the middle of my yard.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

JohnnyRoyale;1019098 said:


> Wouldnt it have been easier (and cheaper) to just put a coverall on blocks?


Maybe coverall still hasn't returned his call. This thread started 11/29/2008!! Geez I think Dubai was built faster than that!!!


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Never heard boo from Coverall, took over a year to get permit...........
It'll be done soon.


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## PTSolutions (Dec 8, 2007)

we got a notice that we needed to re-do the concrete drive and small lot at a rental property we own. the notice said it needed to be completed by june of next year. well, com march we get a letter stating that the everything passed inspections.

whats the issue? we never even re-did the drive!! you work for the city b/c no one else wants to hire you.

i still think a coverall would have been a better option...


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Looks good so far-update us with pics when done.


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## snowman4 (Nov 25, 2007)

BlackIrish;1019131 said:


> Never heard boo from Coverall, took over a year to get permit...........
> It'll be done soon.


I know someone who wanted a huge coveral built and no one returned his call from any of those companies...

But that's one nice looking shack. I wish I was salt....


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

it needs an LVL (laminated) for the rafter support and for the door header. or a steel I beam.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Jay brown;1019612 said:


> it needs an LVL (laminated) for the rafter support and for the door header. or a steel I beam.


LVL tripled up for both have been installed.


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## Humvee27 (Feb 5, 2008)

So the building inspector overlooked the neighbors fire hazard there but your wall had to be 2 hour rated....hmmm, seems like inspectors I know...lol...looking good though.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Well, I actually use the property on the other side of the fence.
Would you believe the propane tanks are empty ?


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

All done except for the doors.


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## Supper Grassy (May 31, 2007)

Looks good


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

In all honesty, I didnt envision it to look like that when you were building it. That looks amazing.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Better start designing the next size up now...that was the longest shed build (expansion) I've ever seen. Darn red tape.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

JohnnyRoyale;1037536 said:


> In all honesty, I didnt envision it to look like that when you were building it. That looks amazing.


I agree, damn that looks nice.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Very nice Paul, I will be able to see that all the way from the highway. Thats a great in your face color.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

nice work


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## Kuzanut (Jan 18, 2009)

Wow, looking nice Irish.. good job.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

Thats a mancave right there. very nice


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## Kuzanut (Jan 18, 2009)

Hey just curious but a ballpark number, what have you spent in materials on the Mancave?


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Kuzanut;1037694 said:


> Hey just curious but a ballpark number, what have you spent in materials on the Mancave?


Usually I'm not crazy about throwing numbers around but in an effort to help others avoid my mistakes I will induldge.
Hindsite says that there are many other more inexpensive ways to store salt.
All numbers stated are rough, cause I'm not checking almost 2 yrs of bills, and I really don't want to know the prob higher actual cost of my mancave.
The original small salt shack cost me $3500 , supplied and installed by a good friend of mine.
I should have been content to remain at that. 
When I almost tripled my snow from one season to the next I figured I needed to store more salt just to be on the safe side.
Phase one of the expansion cost $10k labor and $5K materials, city stepped in shut the job down. Was lucky to get it tarp wrapped before major snow started. Its either I comply or tear it down. Demo permit $500. Decide I don't really want to scrap $18K worth of non compliant shack.
Now I need a variance, $500, because I built on the lot line.
Now need engineer spec'd plans because I'm on the line and they need walls which have 2hr burn time $3500
Permit rings in at $2700
Phase 2 ,after I get permit , is $8K steel and $5K+ in lumber, $6K labor.
Cost would have been much cheaper if the city didn't get involved or if I had got a permit in the first place, but life goes on and I now have a million dollar salt shack that I can park trucks on.
:laughing:


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

BlackIrish;1037728 said:


> Usually I'm not crazy about throwing numbers around but in an effort to help others avoid my mistakes I will induldge.
> Hindsite says that there are many other more inexpensive ways to store salt.
> All numbers stated are rough, cause I'm not checking almost 2 yrs of bills, and I really don't want to know the prob higher actual cost of my mancave.
> The original small salt shack cost me $3500 , supplied and installed by a good friend of mine.
> ...


:laughing: at least you had fun doin it lol


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