# help for bidding in ontario on res drives



## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

hey just need help on pricing for res drives in southern ontario!

any help would be great!


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## Alpha Property (Jul 25, 2008)

this will be my first year doing snow removal full time, i'm not too far away from you, neer Niagara falls Ontario, what i'm planning on doing is quoting driveways for $5.00 for every car you could park in your drive way with another $5.00 for the main entrance of the house and another $5.00 for a length of side walk. So a corner house with 2 sides of sidewalk on the boulevard that you could fit 4 cars in will be $30.00 per plow, and i'm going to try and sign customers for a bill per push for the season with a 2 push per month min. Hopefully that will work out, and i think its fair for both myself and customer to bill per push, and the min ensures that i will have enough cash coming in to cover my basic bills


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## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

i see the billing aspect is a good idea and i will take that on with probably a tweak or two!

I have thought a bit about how i am going to charge and thinking that i will charge each time i backdrag or push for example,

i will charge about 20 bux for first time i have to lower the blade to back drag or push not including push off, for every 3 inches of snow, (up to about a regular one car length driveway.) And if they have a double car driveway which would be two to three times i would add 5 to 10 dollars eachtime. eg a driveway 20 feet wide 20 feet long i would charge 25 to 35 depending on what i feel like at the time i quote them and what i can get away with! this would be 3 back drags and then the push offs. i am not shoveling anything just plowing the driveway! getting into shoveling will cost them a pretty penny that means i have to get out of the truck and take 5 times as long!



How many driveways could i expect to do if they are all within a 3 to 5 minute drive of each other? in a 6 hour period?


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## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

for advertising i am not sure i should offer third plow free as long as they sign up for the year! and then after that every 7th one free with as you said a min 2 per month.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Alpha Property;570950 said:


> this will be my first year doing snow removal full time, i'm not too far away from you, neer Niagara falls Ontario, what i'm planning on doing is quoting driveways for $5.00 for every car you could park in your drive way with another $5.00 for the main entrance of the house and another $5.00 for a length of side walk. So a corner house with 2 sides of sidewalk on the boulevard that you could fit 4 cars in will be $30.00 per plow, and i'm going to try and sign customers for a bill per push for the season with a 2 push per month min. Hopefully that will work out, and i think its fair for both myself and customer to bill per push, and the min ensures that i will have enough cash coming in to cover my basic bills


What's your minimun going to be? If I only have a 2 car driveway and I do my own sidewalks, are you going to do it for $10. I don't do driveways, I'm just trying to help.


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

It doens't need to be that complicated... forget the size, JD is right, what if it is crazy small. It is all about travel time during a storm and you should have a price for a driveway per season that takes less than 10 mins. If it is a crazy big driveway, stay away unless you really need it.

I used to do a driveway that sounded like it paid amazing, but I couldn't use a truck due to it being tight. So by the time I got the ATV to it, i had lost money. You live and learn.

Your best options are not the best paying driveways, but alot of decent paying drives close together.

There are guys in Scarborough doing driveways for 200-300 a season. It is hard to make money with those kinds of prices. We only really do driveways that I did when I was little. We are too cheap, but we cut their lawns and I like the people. 

Most of our driveways are 400 a season plus salt.

Some seasons this makes sense, others (like last year) it doesn't. You just hope it balances out and that the good seasons make you money and the bad seasons don't kill you. I believe that by the season is safer unless you are not relying on monthly income.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

ScnicExcellence;570978 said:


> i see the billing aspect is a good idea and i will take that on with probably a tweak or two!
> 
> I have thought a bit about how i am going to charge and thinking that i will charge each time i backdrag or push for example,
> 
> ...


You have to be careful that your prices are the same, when the driveways are similar. You should not go out and quote a driveway at 25 and then around the corner for a similar drive you quote 35 just because you feel like it.. You could end up with some peeved customers if they should talk to each other. Set up a pricing system, and use that to stay consistent. As you get bigger you will be happy that you did. It really simplifies things.

As for how many say its 3 minutes between and it takes 3 minutes each that is 10 an hour, so 60. May be a tad high.


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## McGaw (Aug 15, 2008)

Hi,
I'm from London Ont. I'm not old enough, nor do I have enough money for a plow, but I do have a couple snowblowers I plan to use this winter. So far I have three accounts for the winter (I hope to add a couple more, I'm trying to land 2 right now where the driveways touch side by side, things are looking good). The first account I've received said they paid 650 for their driveway and back deck to be done. I priced him at 700 for his driveway, back deck, front porch, and sidewalk to be done before 7 a.m. 
Too be quit honest I would like to learn more on how to bid/ estimate, as well as the best way to handle neighbors and customers. 
One of the accounts I have I know the neighbors are going to be a PITA. They'll be outside watching me the whole time making sure I don't go onto their property (three inches of driveway that the customer doesn't own), as well as making sure I don't blow one flake onto the property. 
Thanks Alot,
-Adam

P.S. 
I require 50% before first fall, and the remaining 50% upon completion.


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

instead of 50% at the end of the season, do 50% in Jan. It makes people pay faster. Sometimes at the end of the season people are a little slower to pay...


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## McGaw (Aug 15, 2008)

Thanks Pristine,
It is a little hard becausee I'm not old enough to legally sign a contract, am I? I'm 16. 
What does everyone put in their contracts, like they will start service on X date, and end on Y date?


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## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

i will put i start novemeber 1st and end the service april 1st anything outside those time will be charged extra and i will not guarantee i can do it! 

but with me charging per plow then i will not have to worry about start date and end date as i will still get paid either way, but i have been thinking about averaging a price for the winter then have them pay half up front as you said but then as the others have said collect the other half in january this way they will guarantee pay because they have nobody for the rest of the year if they don't pay!


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## NLS1 (Jun 25, 2007)

This year I will ONLY offer whole season pricing for residential. Up front 1/2 before Oct. 31st to plow in November and that will only cover November. The other half to be due by Nov. 30th for the rest of the season. No more monthly billing, no more no-pays, and no more calls just before you get there, "Never mind coming, I just felt like shoveling it out". If they want to shovel themselves out at 4am at least it won't mean lost income for me. NO MORE per visit resi's.


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## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

Well i got asked to bid a townhouse complex the thing is the insurance company still hasn't got back to me with a quote for my insurance she said it is hard because i am only 23 years old. BS. I can't believe this, i have to get a letter stating i have three years experience and provide insurance proof by providing the policy number from my uncles company! My uncle doesn't want tog ive that info out as i have snow plow just not on the books so i wasn't placed on the insurance! Sh*tty buzz for me. Hopefully i can work around this!


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## McGaw (Aug 15, 2008)

Yeah, 
I just found out I can't get insured until I'm 26 for a plow...


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## Grisi24 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Insurance!!!*

They are taking you both for a walk. I have been running my own business since I was 20 fully insured, all in my name as a DBA. It is through Main Street America Group. Go else where and look for a different company. It is fully possible. I carry one million coverage with a one million umbrella and then other policy for liability of one million dollars. Its been three years and still have everything including workers comp now for the guys.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Grisi24;574422 said:


> They are taking you both for a walk. I have been running my own business since I was 20 fully insured, all in my name as a DBA. It is through Main Street America Group. Go else where and look for a different company. It is fully possible. I carry one million coverage with a one million umbrella and then other policy for liability of one million dollars. Its been three years and still have everything including workers comp now for the guys.


Insurance is available, but things are a little different, insurance wise on this side of the border


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## Grisi24 (Oct 19, 2005)

I noticed the location of Canada after I hit submit. I'm sorry to hear that guys!


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## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

Well i am getting this so called letter of experience i can't believe they won't even quote me unless i have it though. I don't even know if i will do snow clearing depending on insurance.


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## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

Well i am going out today to view a few driveways and the townhouse complex, i will review them and have my quote for insurance on monday or tuesday then get back to the customers on weds with their pricing i think the townhouse complex i will sub out, it is in waterloo ontario (if interested pm me) I figure i need 30 to 50 contracts on average of 30 bux each to cover my costs of living and truck expenses and other little things. this would be with only doing th eminimum times per month or two times wether or not it snows. I am going to have to look into getting an atv probably for clearing snow with snow blower on it! depending on insurance! I will be back here with some pictures of the complex and drives to see what you think about my pricing and maybe give some help if i need it!


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## McGaw (Aug 15, 2008)

Does anyone know our laws for using ATV's to plow in Ontario, even better if you knew for London. I would be using it for plowing, as well as landscaping. I would drive it on the street or sidewalks, I wouldn't trailer it. Thanks alot.


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## DP Property (Dec 1, 2007)

Target wealthy areas - 50 dollars a driveway - 75 dollars if you drop salt and have to handshovel a walking strip to the door... period- any less your wasting your time and your truck for nothing. 

Bill per push - if you push 4 inches and are all done on your way home if another inch has fallen give it another quick backdrag or push. Tell your customers you don't double bill for small clean up's between storms. I used to do 80 residential houses in a 6 to 8 hr time for realestate board spread out in a 50 km range. This season I have booked about 20 large drives all close to home and have a few good contracts in town - a big church and two Tim Hortons - ect. Enough to keep me busy but not as much driving this year. 

If your gonna do all those driveways for so cheap why not just pick up a few churches or something and make more money doing larger areas? 

Just my two cents.


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## DP Property (Dec 1, 2007)

Scnic 

Try looking into Gore Mutual for your commercial insurance- lots of insurance companys will dick you around when it comes to snowremoval. They have a special policy that will cover you with snow removal insurance as long as it does not exceed 3 qaurters of your annual reciepts. Anyways the cost is very reasonable. I used to pay 5 grand a year for Landscape ontario and now I think I pay about 2200.00 a year for full commercial coverage that includes snowremoval operations.


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## shepoutside (Apr 6, 2004)

Try these guys, Canadian and they list plowing in the info........
www.kanetix.ca/business-automobile-insurance


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