# snow-pushing power of old vs. new trucks



## Megunticook (Dec 1, 2006)

I plow snow with a '73 W100 (shortbed, 318, 5-speed manual). While I haven't plowed with other trucks to compare, I am continually amazed at how strong this vehicle is. It will push snow over a foot deep without even blinking--wet heavy stuff included. 

Sure, if it's icy underneath and I'm pushing cement up a hill it'll sometimes slide or I may spin wheels a bit and have to back down for another run at it (although I could probably solve that with chains).

But it's the ease with which it tackles the work that amazes me. Put her in second or third gear, low range, and it will push just about anything.

I got to talking with a guy in town who plows with an old International pickup, manages a repair shop, he says that newer trucks don't have the same snow-pushing power. He thinks it's all about gearing and narrow tires--I'm not sure I agree with the tire piece (after all, you can put narrow tires on a new truck, right?)--what's your experience on this? Anybody else out there plow with an old Dodge and can compare to the new ones? 

Just curious...


----------



## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

I'm pretty new to plowin (3 years) but I think the biggest thing is trying to find a "new" truck with a standard... Near impossible, expecially since chevy now only puts slush boxes in thier new trucks... The tire thing, Wound't bigger tires be better for actual plowing, giving you more contact area with the already plowed pavement for better traction, on unplowed lots i could see the floatation but i dont know....


----------



## Wiseguyinc (Jan 31, 2007)

I know that gearing will make a big difference and I would assume the gearing would be a bit different.I know the old trucks were made to be work trucks.The new models are trying to be an all around work/town/highway truck. But my 97 cummins will push drifts as high as my hood at 1000 rpms.I know because I did it last year a few times.I am sure the gas engines are a bit different.


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

My 05 Hemi has a very different power band then my 01 360. They are both different then other units I've pushed with. The powers there it's just in different places.

Automatics as well as emission/fuel mileage requirements have changed the powerband engines are designed to operate at. I plow in second gear most off the time, sometimes pulling it down to first to keep it in the sweet spot in the torque range. I think the Government has taken away any chance off us seeing low rpm high torque engines out of the factory. I think even the devotees of Dr Diesel's design will start finding their power band rising in the revs range. I haven't had a chance to drive the new CTD but I've heard it's power comes on higher then the old 5.9 liter


----------



## Megunticook (Dec 1, 2006)

Wiseguyinc;491221 said:


> I know the old trucks were made to be work trucks.The new models are trying to be an all around work/town/highway truck


That's a good point--the pickup truck market has changed dramatically in the past 10-20 years. The vast majority of people who the automakers are selling trucks to now don't use them for work...so the emphasis now is on comfort and various features that appeal to these buyers. When my truck was built 34 years ago, the people who bought pickups didn't expect to cruise on the interstate at 75 mph in air-conditioned comfort, they expected to use the truck for demanding work, or off-road travel, etc.

But there's still that minority of truck-buyers who work their trucks--like guys on this site! And I'm just curious whether the trucks coming out of Detroit nowadays have the pushing power of the older trucks. That's not to say older trucks are "better"--after all, automotive technology has advanced considerably in the past 20-30 years. But I would guess that certain things have improved while others have declined (I've had a number of mechanics, for example, say that the drivetrains on the newer Dodges don't withstand the abuse they did when my truck was built).


----------



## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

new trucks don't plow anything like the old ones. 

Gears ---- I don't know 4.10 gears are just that 4.10. 727- 3rd (high) gear is the same as A518/46rh 3rd gear (1 to 1) first and second gear are roughly the same also they just added over drive in the A518

You really need to look at the suspention to see why older trucks plow better. the leaf sprung trucks don't have the give in them, any weight transfer is tranferd to the other side (any weight transfered from the front right corner goes to the front left) Solid axles ....

the coil over trucks give and try to transfer weight throughout the truck IFS Transfers weight from the front right to Right rear and small amount to the left front. so you putting any weight transfer away from the weight you pushing, making traction an issue. 

It go back to old drag racers saying "it not the power you have it how you get the power to groung"


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

I vote the new trucks push more. the old ones (seventies and earlier) were better at driving through the woods though since the trees and limbs didnt dent or ruin the body as much. They were basically all around tougher from the roof down in materials.
Far as pushing, just because your bouncing around in the cab more and the steering wheel has so much play you turn it like your driving a cruise ship it doesnt mean your pushing more just that you FEEL like your pushing more. Then a new truck flies by you pushing the same snow with better suspension and a better ride and the new truck doesnt sound like it is even working.
this is just a novice opinion.


----------



## Sweetpete (Jul 11, 2005)

FWIW....my 04 F250 has a solid front axle and front leaf springs. I think it pushes the snow really well

I also am glad I purchased the last year they offered the leaf springs up front. It just seems "old school" It's a really tough working 4x4 with the newer technology.

I really love the truck. The auto does really well. I just throw her in 1st gear and let her go. Very little traction problems.

I love this truck. But I enjoy this thread also. Nothing beats a good, hard working, well built truck. GM, Dodge, Ford or othewise.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

My 78 GMC with 35" mudders and 7.5ft Meyers will out push any new truck. Those new trucks are just a waste of money. I love plowing circles around them,


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Megunticook;491421 said:


> (I've had a number of mechanics, for example, say that the drivetrains on the newer Dodges don't withstand the abuse they did when my truck was built).


I don't believe a 70's automatic is a better transmission then what they build today.


----------



## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

basher;491551 said:


> I don't believe a 70's automatic is a better transmission then what they build today.


the 727 used from mid 60's up 89/90 are as strong as (if not stronger) then the RE48 
there is no way the A518/46rh was in the same class. Everyone of them had overdrive issues.

I remember pulling 94 1500 with the A518 off the truck because the would not move under there own power it had a whole 13 miles on it


----------



## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

basher;491551 said:


> I don't believe a 70's automatic is a better transmission then what they build today.


The TF-727 is indeed a stronger transmission. You have to remember, this is the same unit used in the late 60s and early 70's muscle cars. I have never lost a 727 in a plow truck yet. I have bought some that were bad, but I don't know how they did it.


----------



## topdj (Oct 6, 2007)

Metro Lawn;491660 said:


> The TF-727 is indeed a stronger transmission. You have to remember, this is the same unit used in the late 60s and early 70's muscle cars. I have never lost a 727 in a plow truck yet. I have bought some that were bad, but I don't know how they did it.


when I was a kid in 1975 my dad bought new power wagon with a7.5 meyers and that 727power train lasted into the late 90s untill the truck rotted away


----------



## 91AK250 (Nov 28, 2007)

i've only plowed with my '91 250 and a '94 1500 chevy, both trucks where autos. 

now with that said my 250 has moved alot of snow..but i know theres alot of bigger batter trucks that can prolly push more i personaly would love a new truck but seeing as how i cant afford that i'll stick with my old truck for now...it does a damn good job at what it does.


----------



## sno commander (Oct 16, 2007)

i agree that the 727 auto was an excellent trans, i have had 2 plow trucks with them and never had a problem, but i think if you take a newer cummins diesel with 325 hp and 610 tq i don't think it will last as long as the 48re( 2004 and newer) As far as new truck vs old, i think i can push more with my 88 sno commander than my newer one because im not scared to beat the crap out of it or slide into anything


----------



## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

I think its all about weight, traction and gears. I've plowed with a Ford 300 6cyl, a 292 Chevy, a couple of 351 Fords and the 5.4 I have now. You have to find the sweet spot for each particular vehicle. For instance, my 5.4 loves 4 low; feels like it could tear a house down. The 351's pushed well in 4 high like the 292 Chevy; the 300 6cyl Ford wouldn't go without 4 low. That being said , I love the older trucks. They were built heavier with steel, not plastic. The weight of the older trucks helps them push better IMO.


----------



## rocknrollrednec (Oct 27, 2005)

I plow mountain roads, and you have to be just a little bit nuts to do it well (I really need to get some pics for y'all) and plowing with my 87 Dodge, I don't even worry. It's such a tough old beater that I don't worry about hurting it, or not being able to push the snow. whereas a few of my neighbors attempt to plow, but they worry about damaging their "pretty" trucks. 
I think just that makes all the difference in the world. If you're timid about the whole thing, worrying about breakage or just getting stuck, you're not going to do the job as well.


----------



## g.moore (Oct 10, 2006)

Some of you have seen what I plow. I have a 1964 IH 1200 w/ a 7.5' Meyer engine driven hydraulics and a 1996 Ram 2500 12V CTD Snow Way 25 8' blade. Side by side the IH will run rings around the Dodge. I plowed 1 winter with only the IH and this winter with only my Dodge and ATV. IH is down till spring, steering box failed so about 90% through a P/S upgrade and brakes have never worked so putting a D44 w/ discs up front and a 12 bolt in the rear which is about 70% done. After running for 4 months w/o the IH I really really miss it. Dodge will push but only if it's chained (both have 33x12.5" tires) the IH will go wherever it's pointed in a straight line the Dodge will only go sideways if I have a heavy push. When it comes to relying on a plow truck to get out to the main road I'll take old iron any day.


----------



## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

sno commander;492239 said:


> i think i can push more with my 88 sno commander than my newer one because im not scared to beat the crap out of it or slide into anything


Well said... The phrase, "They just don't make them like they used to" is exactly what this post is about... Theres nothing like thick steel bodies and a stiff harsh ride that makes you know your in a WORK truck. When I close my door hard I dont want to worry about breaking it. My 89 W250 pushes snow great. And I have to admit that I take alot more chances or push her alot harder than I would a newer pickup cause she doesn't cost me a dime. If she went on fire tomorrow I would walk away saying, wow, what a great truck... Yeah its got to be nice plowing with heated seats and all the creature comforts of a new truck offers but I would be too nervous breaking something on a new truck with a $600 a month payment... Plus push that new truck as much as some people push their older dodges, gm's and fords, and lets see how long it will last. I know many times I played tug of war with my old trucks that I wouldnt even attempt in a new one. I recently was considering selling my truck to get a newer plusher truck but changed my mind cause I didn't thing it made much economical sense. So when my lease is up on my wifes trailblazer I am going to replace it with a new crew cab but I will not plow with it. That will be my fancy grocery getter and tv picker upper from best buy while the real workhorse sits in my back yard waiting to see snow again...


----------



## Duncan90si (Feb 16, 2007)

RODHALL;491433 said:


> the coil over trucks give and try to transfer weight throughout the truck IFS Transfers weight from the front right to Right rear and small amount to the left front. so you putting any weight transfer away from the weight you pushing, making traction an issue.


I'm trying to think of a 4x4, IFS, coil spring suspension pick up truck. I can't think of one that fits that criteria. Would you mind telling me which pickups they are???


----------



## wahlturfcare (Oct 24, 2005)

i have a 74 w100 shortbox that is great in the snow. it also has 6'' 16'' tires that grip no matter what. I've been offered many time to buy it from guys who have newer trucks that try to push the heavy snows that struggle. I also have a 77 w400 that is also a tank in the snow. My 88superduty sucks in the snow even with the same 16'' tires, its just the design of the new products being made. I even notice that in 4wheel the old dodges are tanks. I have been in 3-4' of mude in the 74 and it will go through in 2 wheel and the 88 spins in 4wheel in about 3''.

The skinnier tire puts more weight on the tread for traction compared to a wide tire that disperses the weight(floatation tires). if you put 6'' or skinner tires you will notice alot more traction.


----------



## g.moore (Oct 10, 2006)

> The skinnier tire puts more weight on the tread for traction compared to a wide tire that disperses the weight(floatation tires). if you put 6'' or skinner tires you will notice alot more traction


Actually I have put this to the test, my Ram came with 235/85R16's and in 2" of snow you _had _to chain. I now have 285/75R16's (33x12.5's) and I have chained once because of a 100' patch of ice on out hill which nothing was making it over. The truck is alot more stable and instead of just stopping and spinning the pizza cutters it will dig until it gets traction. I actually dumped the 7" wide tires on the IH because of the same issue, talk about a difference, the 33x12.5's are night and day better than the original 7's. If someone gave me free tires for the Ram that were stock height/width I would walk away unless they came with a yearly chain allowance and a gopher to install them. I'll stick with my tall/wide.


----------



## Duncan90si (Feb 16, 2007)

Duncan90si;500121 said:


> I'm trying to think of a 4x4, IFS, coil spring suspension pick up truck. I can't think of one that fits that criteria.


I thought of one. I believe the new GM trucks are coil over, or atleast the 1500s are.


----------



## baltz526 (Dec 27, 2007)

sounds like a push off is in order. what i know is my w350 drw with chains on 4 corners will out push any unchained new rig 1 ton or less. 456 gears and a 4 speed will push a lot of snow


----------



## mmwb (Jan 12, 2005)

I've only plowed three years. The first two with a 91 k1500. It had a performance tranny installed by the previous owner. Pushed great. Handled great. A little lite weight for the plow I had on it (old western conventional 8' pro). At 265,000 miles it was just worn out. 

This year, same plow on a 95 f150. Too much plow for this truck. Pushes okay, but definately not as well as the chevy. It is geared higher. The suspension is too soft for the load. I cringe to use it, but have the accounts and need to get the work done. 

Next year I hope to put a wide out on the 75 M880 I am working on. I've no doubt that it will push anything I put the plow to with nothing lacking. 

The engines in all three are up to the task, but the 3/4 ton obviously has it all over the half tons. The 727 tranny and 4.10 pumpkins will no doubt make a huge difference...


----------



## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

baltz526;507770 said:


> sounds like a push off is in order. what i know is my w350 drw with chains on 4 corners will out push any unchained new rig 1 ton or less. 456 gears and a 4 speed will push a lot of snow


Hey I had a tug of war between my 89 W250 with a stock 318 versus an 85 Chevy K20 with a 350 both in 4wd, and the chevy was the one being pulled backwards... His truck might be sound loud with aftermarket exhaust and will probably destroy me in a race, but my Dodge out pulled him...


----------



## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Is this wierd or what? The new trucks are 1000x's more confortable to drive for those long nights, but I find the w350 will push the piles back further than the 02 2500HD even when the Chev has the salter on the back.


----------



## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

I also think when pushing snow blade size has alot to do with... Obviously the smaller blade on your W350 will have less snow behind it than the 8 footer on the chevy. Dont get me wrong, I agree with your statement and think the older Dodges push unbelievable... I would love the comfort of a newer truck rather than my old school regular cab bench seated monster of a pick up... Now I might not plow as much snow as some of you guys but I do alot of off-roading and beach travel and my Dodge, hands down outperforms alot of the others... I am always pulling out stuck newbies on the beach who dont air down their tires... I pulled out an older bronco burried up to its frame rails sideways in 4low with my Dodge... I feel invinceable on the beach with her. I never have that feeling I used to get with my Chevy SUVS I have owned in the past... that always nervous I am gonna get stuck feeling which really stinks at 3 in the morning with no one around to pull you out and the tide is coming in...


----------



## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

The Dodge has WINGS!!!!!


----------



## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

Thats Hysterical... For some reason I laughed uncrontrollable at that statement and couldn't get the Always Maxi Pad commercial (which should be outlawed on television) out of my head...


----------



## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

OK to answer your Question on why older trucks push better than new trucks. its called emissions. That low end torque has been moved up to mid power bands for better fuel economy. Plain and simple thats why old push better


----------



## jjklongisland (Nov 13, 2006)

But really is it better fuel economy? My 89 gets 12 to 13 mpg all day long around town with 1000 pounds in the back of her... SO the new trucks are sacrificing torque for fuel economy, where is the the economy then??? I dont think the new ones are much better...


----------



## rocknrollrednec (Oct 27, 2005)

BigDave12768;517193 said:


> OK to answer your Question on why older trucks push better than new trucks. its called emissions. That low end torque has been moved up to mid power bands for better fuel economy. Plain and simple thats why old push better


I'm not 100% sure about that. when I built the 360 in my 87 w250, I unfortunately picked a cam that wasn't ideal for what I do with the truck. that, and port work on the heads, full length headers, and an edelbrock performer RPM intake...it doesn't make much power until it spins over 2500rpm. but it pushes snow like crazy. 
my point is, no matter where in the rpm range the power is at, you just need to select a gear to keep you in that rpm range


----------



## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

My self the emmission thing makes sense but my w350 has EFI and passed the E test this fall. Still for cleaning up the big piles it pushes and doesn't even grunt. Even in two wheel drive with the dually tires no issues. Plus all than is on the back of the truck is an empty service body.


----------

