# We Won Walmart (equipment rental suggestions)



## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Hey all,

Not new to the forum but I don’t post a lot. 

Here’s the skinny... we have been asked for 3 years in a row to plow for the local Walmart but I never had the interest (it was through an nsp) 

Well they approached me this year and I said I would look at the scope of work. While doing so I realized they would be hiring me direct. So no nsp taking a big cut. I bid it high on the per occurrence and what I feel is reasonable for the seasonal price. Well they called last week and awarded me the contract on seasonal...

My question is this. My operator really wants me to rent a loader this year. Usually for my larger accounts I rent a backhoe on and snow forecast over 4 inches. He wants a loader for the visibility. And I’m perfectly fine and agree with that! However, a loader is $3,500 a month vs $1,800 for a hoe. 

United rentals only rents the deer 544 or similar. Sunbelt only has the baby ones. 

Is a Deere 344k large enough? 12 or 14ft box plow will be purchased once I determine what machine we will rent. 

Does anyone know of a place that rents mid size loaders in the Illinois area? Or do you think my operator is being too picky? 

No nasty comments here lol 

I know how you all can get and no I’m not in over my head.. just want opinions on loader vs hoe and size requirements as you see fit. I have tons of time on a backhoe at my large factories and it works fine. But that’s open areas..


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Employees love spending your money


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

What size Walmart lot are we talking here???...A compact to mid compact loader such as a Cat 906 through a 918 will work...I know in winter rental pricing there is a price jump after the 907 I do believe....A Deere 544 is a bit of an overkill and a waste of money to sit on a lot such as a Walmart


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

May be a little late in the season, but consider getting some of the adjacent businesses for snow and ice, if you can handle it.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

The backhoe will do just fine, we have a case 580sm with a 12' sectional. The biggest benifit of the loader is its able to articulate and get around things but most of your pushes will be straight back and forth.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

LapeerLandscape said:


> The backhoe will do just fine, we have a case 580sm with a 12' sectional. The biggest benifit of the loader is its able to articulate and get around things but most of your pushes will be straight back and forth.


 Ditto, 580 will work. Never mind the operators opinion he's not paying no rental.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> The backhoe will do just fine, we have a case 580sm with a 12' sectional. The biggest benifit of the loader is its able to articulate and get around things but most of your pushes will be straight back and forth.


Is the backhoe named Fireball???


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

I could not agree more with Mr. Lapeer...Why spend more money for something you really don’t need...More money in your pocket...Isn’t that the name of the game...Making Money?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Unless it's the biggest Walmart in the world, I agree with the others above.


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## mnlawns (Sep 19, 2018)

you could probably do it with a large skid and 10-12 kage plow


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

I suppose you could use a shovel too but... Like Devcon axed size would matter... What kind of support equipment? Sure you could use trucks or a skid but size and time there would obviously be affected... 544 with a 14' box would cut your time by alot vs a hoe and a 12'.... How long of pushes you have play into it... So the main question would be how quick you need to get it done... Could you use a loader else where for push back and stacking? You also got it on a high seasonal price it sounds like so you have guaranteed money to budget for a larger machine and won't get burned on no or low slow snow year...

Any equipment dealer will rent... Get on CL I see guys wanting to rent their machines too... Illinois Truck rents...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I suppose you could use a shovel too but... Like Devcon axed size would matter... What kind of support equipment? Sure you could use trucks or a skid but size and time there would obviously be affected... 544 with a 14' box would cut your time by alot vs a hoe and a 12'.... How long of pushes you have play into it... So the main question would be how quick you need to get it done... Could you use a loader else where for push back and stacking? You also got it on a high seasonal price it sounds like so you have guaranteed money to budget for a larger machine and won't get burned on no or low slow snow year...
> 
> Any equipment dealer will rent... Get on CL I see guys wanting to rent their machines too... Illinois Truck rents...


All good points...I will add one more...If your going the machine rental route....Secure the agreement now with the rental company..Machines go quick...Atleast in this area they do


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

This might be the best Walmart thread I've ever read. 

That's a big price jump based on an employee preference. Most walmarts around here are done with skids.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

BossPlow2010 said:


> May be a little late in the season, but consider getting some of the adjacent businesses for snow and ice, if you can handle it.


We are pretty full at this point. We now cover 35 acres of property. Next year we will add more.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Defcon 5 said:


> What size Walmart lot are we talking here???...A compact to mid compact loader such as a Cat 906 through a 918 will work...I know in winter rental pricing there is a price jump after the 907 I do believe....A Deere 544 is a bit of an overkill and a waste of money to sit on a lot such as a Walmart


So you think this loader from sunbelt would work fine with a 12ft pusher? Would a 14ft pusher be too much if it was a heavy wet snow?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Defcon 5 said:


> All good points...I will add one more...If your going the machine rental route....Secure the agreement now with the rental company..Machines go quick...Atleast in this area they do


I found that out on friday! All the big loaders were spoken for lol but luckily I have a few options on hold until I decide.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Defcon 5 said:


> What size Walmart lot are we talking here???...A compact to mid compact loader such as a Cat 906 through a 918 will work...I know in winter rental pricing there is a price jump after the 907 I do believe....A Deere 544 is a bit of an overkill and a waste of money to sit on a lot such as a Walmart


It's a 12 acre Walmart. And it pays healthy enough that swinging any rental is not a problem. But as stated above keeping the money is the goal.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

We are also converting to all brine this year. Just picked up 10 totes for storage and building a brine maker. I'm expecting that Walmart will cost me no more than 6K in de-icing if we have a nasty winter. Already purchased 20 bulk 2500# bags of salt fines. The bags were 4K and I'm leaving 2k for additives if it's really cold.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Where are you located?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Where are you located?


West central Illinois.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I suppose you could use a shovel too but... Like Devcon axed size would matter... What kind of support equipment? Sure you could use trucks or a skid but size and time there would obviously be affected... 544 with a 14' box would cut your time by alot vs a hoe and a 12'.... How long of pushes you have play into it... So the main question would be how quick you need to get it done... Could you use a loader else where for push back and stacking? You also got it on a high seasonal price it sounds like so you have guaranteed money to budget for a larger machine and won't get burned on no or low slow snow year...
> 
> Any equipment dealer will rent... Get on CL I see guys wanting to rent their machines too... Illinois Truck rents...


That rental place is close! The rates seem high for 4 week on even the small loader. I'll call them tomorrow and see if they have winter rates! Good tip! If it works out I owe you pizza lol


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> West central Illinois.


Average annual snowfall? 35ish inches?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Average annual snowfall? 35ish inches?


28-35 yes


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Average annual snowfall? 35ish inches?


In 10 years of plowing I've only had 1 snow that put a hurt on me. 23 inches


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Also picking this up and running a 1,000 gallon brine sprayer and western wideout xl


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Good luck deicing a 12 acre Walmart to their satisfactuon on a 6k budget for the winter. How many GPA are you planning to apply?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Good luck on deicing a 12 acre Walmart to their satisfaction on a 6k budget for the winter.


That's applying 100gal acre each event. We are also going to pre wet each time the weather permits.

Edit: it's also not my budget. It's my preliminary figure. We have plenty of wiggle room.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

How many applications are you planning for the winter would be a good question also.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> How many applications are you planning for the winter would be a good question also.


We average 12 snow events per season and Ive pre purchased enough salt for 17 events.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

50000 pounds divided by 17 events is approximately 2950 pounds per event. Divide that by 12 acres, gives you approximately 245 pounds per acre. The numbers you're giving don't make sense to me.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> 50000 pounds divided by 17 events is approximately 2950 pounds per event. Divide that by 12 acres, gives you approximately 245 pounds per acre. The numbers you're giving don't make sense to me.


1200 gallons x 2.5lb per gallon =3,000 lb per event x17 51,000 lb %2500lbs per bag =20.4 bags @$200 bag =$4,080


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> 50000 pounds divided by 17 events is approximately 2950 pounds per event. Divide that by 12 acres, gives you approximately 245 pounds per acre. The numbers you're giving don't make sense to me.


Confused on what doesn't make sense?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

With the 10 totes you have, are you making a manifold system to pump into the one tank?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

BossPlow2010 said:


> With the 10 totes you have, are you making a manifold system to pump into the one tank?


Yea they will all be connected. Then I can pump out of my brine maker to the selected tank by opening the valve on the tank. Then I can draft from the tank I want the same way.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Yea they will all be connected. Then I can pump out of my brine maker to the selected tank by opening the valve on the tank. Then I can draft from the tank I want the same way.


You're going to draft with the pump on the truck?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

BossPlow2010 said:


> You're going to draft with the pump on the truck?


Correct.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Correct.


Does the pump have a primer on it?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Does the pump have a primer on it?


Yes it is self priming. If it has problems pulling a prim I will crack a top tote open and ouch water too it. Top totes are about 2 foot higher than draft pump. If all the above doesn't work I can draw from holding tanks to the brine maker pump and fill that way too. My residential truck has an electric pump that's slow. I intend to fill that truck with brine maker pump. Or offload from the large truck. Just depends who's closer to the shop.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I have a question how are you currently handling the other 35 acres? That seems like a lot without some type of machine. I know you mentioned renting a backhoe as needed is it all trucks? I think a backhoe will do a 12 acre site as long as it’s all straight line pushes going around stuff turning is very tough with one. It’s just slower time is money plus how long will they wait to clear the lot. Loader by far is faster even with the same size 12’ box but it comes with a big price tag.

As for your de icing plan do you have bulk salt or just going to use brine? If it’s brine only you may really want to rethink that plan a little. I think your math is perfect for brine. Math always looks great on paper real world maybe off quite a bit


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

fireside said:


> I have a question how are you currently handling the other 35 acres? That seems like a lot without some type of machine. I know you mentioned renting a backhoe as needed is it all trucks? I think a backhoe will do a 12 acre site as long as it's all straight line pushes going around stuff turning is very tough with one. It's just slower time is money plus how long will they wait to clear the lot. Loader by far is faster even with the same size 12' box but it comes with a big price tag.
> 
> As for your de icing plan do you have bulk salt or just going to use brine? If it's brine only you may really want to rethink that plan a little. I think your math is perfect for brine. Math always looks great on paper real world maybe off quite a bit


We had about 18 acres before this season. We always used 3 trucks and a skid steer. The two big factories were easy going as long as employe parking was done timely.

As for brine only- we still have salt spreaders for if crap hits the fan and it's super cold. We will prewet our salt to activate it.

The plan is to just leave the loader and operator at Walmart from the time it starts snowing until we're completely done. We were hired and paid way more per year than the last guy but it was with the guarantee that we will do better.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> So you think this loader from sunbelt would work fine with a 12ft pusher? Would a 14ft pusher be too much if it was a heavy wet snow?
> 
> View attachment 184195


Yes


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I can't imagine doing a WallyWorld lot with a hoe or skidsteer.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I can't imagine doing a WallyWorld lot with a hoe or skidsteer.


I have seen plenty of Hoes used at Walmart


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Our Wally world is open 24-7. A backhoe there would be a pain to operate. Just my opinion. A few years ago, a guy had posted his price on here about it. Trying to remember it.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Randall Ave said:


> Our Wally world is open 24-7. A backhoe there would be a pain to operate. Just my opinion. A few years ago, a guy had posted his price on here about it. Trying to remember it.


Ours is open 24-7 too. Most are these days. I know a hoe would be problematic. 3 years ago I backed the arm into an empty wheeled dumpster at one of my factories. For some reason the employees like to push them out to the center of the lot before a snow... Like I'm going to get out and push it back lol.. I just push it back to the building with the western plow and move on. My price is private as I think the guy I took it from is here on the forum. I had heard him mention the forum many years ago. I will say that I overbid him by a lot but it was because we do a better job.. The sad thing is he is a huge operation. He has 4x the trucks I have and owns 2 hoes and a loader.. He never touched the lot until it was done snowing and even then it could be a couple hours before he arrived.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Ok that answers a lot. If it was me I would rent the smaller loader if it’s the same price. Just on how much easier it is to see all around you. I tried pre wet last yeR I found it was a waste of money. If it’s that cold I just use magic salt in may case it’s cheaper than pre wet.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

fireside said:


> Ok that answers a lot. If it was me I would rent the smaller loader if it's the same price. Just on how much easier it is to see all around you. I tried pre wet last yeR I found it was a waste of money. If it's that cold I just use magic salt in may case it's cheaper than pre wet.


I am calling about leasing one for a full year here soon. I found a company that leases the loaders for $900 a month. So it would be just a grand more to have the loader for a full year. I can think of a few ways to keep it busy in the summer!


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I know in my area JCB does some interesting lease/own winter we will call it rental. You keep the machine pay payments in the winter and very small in the summer but very limited hours. Work really well there are a bunch of units around here


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

fireside said:


> I know in my area JCB does some interesting lease/own winter we will call it rental. You keep the machine pay payments in the winter and very small in the summer but very limited hours. Work really well there are a bunch of units around here


I see you have a loader about the size I am looking to rent. Would you say a 12 ft box would handle well? Would 14 be too much?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I wouldn't consider a 14' box on a machine less than 15000 pounds. 

I also think you're underestimating the number of deicing services per season, especially if using all liquids.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I can't imagine doing a WallyWorld lot with a hoe or skidsteer.


Why is this?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I wouldn't consider a 14' box on a machine less than 15000 pounds.
> 
> I also think you're underestimating the number of deicing services per season, especially if using all liquids.


I kinda figued on the 14ft plow. But we usuially have very fluffy snow around 2-3 inches per event. I network with my plow dealer who also sells brine and he said planing on 17 would be a safe bet. Again, time will tell. I spoke with my salt supplier this morning and if i go through my 20 bags and need more its only $5 more per bag not doing an early season pre-purchase. I'm fine with that... Having 40k of added wiggle room lets me sleep well at night..


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> Why is this?


Visibility....pushability...bigger is better since most Walmartians are too stupid to get out of the way. But in reality, the first 2. Relatively long pushes with snow that has been driven through, so it's much heavier.

Personally I think hoes are garbage for plowing.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Defcon 5 said:


> I have seen plenty of Hoes used at Walmart


What do you have an all access pass to the @Ajlawn1 van?

OP, that truck you posted, what's the GVWR on it, 1000 gallon tank full is pretty heavy.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I kinda figued on the 14ft plow. But we usuially have very fluffy snow around 2-3 inches per event. I network with my plow dealer who also sells brine and he said planing on 17 would be a safe bet. Again, time will tell. I spoke with my salt supplier this morning and if i go through my 20 bags and need more its only $5 more per bag not doing an early season pre-purchase. I'm fine with that... Having 40k of added wiggle room lets me sleep well at night..


17 salting events might be an ok number for most of your customers but not for walmart, the are very demanding. They will call you when the first snow flakes fall and it doesnt matter if they are melting on the ground they are going to want to see you there putting down product.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

BossPlow2010 said:


> What do you have an all access pass to the @Ajlawn1 van?
> 
> OP, that truck you posted, what's the GVWR on it, 1000 gallon tank full is pretty heavy.


GVWR 14,050LB Payload is 8,946 so I would be flirting if at 1000GAL but I like to live dangerously lol... I would likely go with an 800 gallon tank. This truck will double as my pressure washing rig in the summer and my pressure washer is 8gpm. so having the water capacity is nice.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I kinda figued on the 14ft plow. But we usuially have very fluffy snow around 2-3 inches per event. I network with my plow dealer who also sells brine and he said planing on 17 would be a safe bet. Again, time will tell. I spoke with my salt supplier this morning and if i go through my 20 bags and need more its only $5 more per bag not doing an early season pre-purchase. I'm fine with that... Having 40k of added wiggle room lets me sleep well at night..


I would estimate double the number of plowable events, conservatively.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I would estimate double the number of plowable events, conservatively.


When I did my estimate for them I figured in 20 snow events and 25 applications of granular de-icer. Manager wants liquid each time we can. And I am happy with that!


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I would estimate double the number of plowable events, conservatively.


That's what I was trying to get across.

Walmart is salt hungry. They love salt. If you think you salted enough, it's still not enough. I also don't know how receptive they will be to liquid. The managers around here want to SEE salt. Most want to see so much that the salt is more of a trip hazard than the snow and ice.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> When I did my estimate for them I figured in 20 snow events and 25 applications of granular de-icer. Manager wants liquid each time we can. And I am happy with that!


Huh?

Didn't you say 17?

And if you're anti-icing (won't be able to every time) you're almost doubling that.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

I explained the brine process to the store manager and her eyes lit up and said "yea I want that". I am not worried about making them happy. They have suffered with the last guy so much that it wont be hard to impress. But we are still making this our highest priority.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Huh?
> 
> Didn't you say 17?
> 
> And if you're anti-icing (won't be able to every time) you're almost doubling that.


I figured 17 into my actual yearly cost.

I figured 20 and 25 on the yearly price.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

This thread got derailed somewhere down the line lol..


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Visibility....pushability...bigger is better since most Walmartians are too stupid to get out of the way. But in reality, the first 2. Relatively long pushes with snow that has been driven through, so it's much heavier.


To add to this you want your Wally world piles as far away as possible too... Preferably lot next door.... All those thaw and refreeze's to keep added costs down on additional deicing... When I did them 16' box on a 30k lb machine...



Mark Oomkes said:


> Personally I think hoes are garbage for plowing.


What about for snow removal?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> This thread got derailed somewhere down the line lol..


Simple...14' on a 244 or 344 is too much. 12' will be OK on a 344 size machine.

I subbed a hoe one year and was underwhelmed. I ran my 244 a couple times last year and like it even more than a 100HP ag tractor due to visibility. Doesn't have the same power or top speed, but it really is far better than a skid or hoe.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Simple...14' on a 244 or 344 is too much. 12' will be OK on a 344 size machine.
> 
> I subbed a hoe one year and was underwhelmed. I ran my 244 a couple times last year and like it even more than a 100HP ag tractor due to visibility. Doesn't have the same power or top speed, but it really is far better than a skid or hoe.


I put the call in to lease a new JD344 for the year. Waiting to hear numbers. Told him he had till EOD or I will call and rent a loader for the winter.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> GVWR 14,050LB Payload is 8,946 so I would be flirting if at 1000GAL but I like to live dangerously lol... I would likely go with an 800 gallon tank. This truck will double as my pressure washing rig in the summer and my pressure washer is 8gpm. so having the water capacity is nice.


With a 14k GVWR you might want to consider (2) smaller tanks tied together but able to be isolated. If you drain down a 1000 gallon tank to half, then have to relocate, you will have a lot of slosh factor that will be very tough on the trans and braking systems on a smaller frame truck like that. Or if you can find a multiple baffle 1000 gallon tank if you want to stay with one. Just my $.02


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Philbilly2 said:


> With a 14k GVWR you might want to consider (2) smaller tanks tied together but able to be isolated. If you drain down a 1000 gallon tank to half, then have to relocate, you will have a lot of slosh factor that will be very tough on the trans and braking systems on a smaller frame truck like that. Or if you can find a multiple baffle 1000 gallon tank if you want to stay with one. Just my $.02


I am filling the tank with baffle balls. That was my first concern. But very good point.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I explained the brine process to the store manager and her eyes lit up and said "yea I want that". I am not worried about making them happy. They have suffered with the last guy so much that it wont be hard to impress. But we are still making this our highest priority.


Problem is...brine is NOT the answer to every situation. On paper it is, but in reality it isn't. So she might think it's great, but it might not be.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I am filling the tank with baffle balls. That was my first concern. But very good point.


Get a 100' coil of flexible perforated drain pipe. Cut it into 12-36" lengths with a RAZOR BLADE. Accomplishes the same thing, but far cheaper.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Problem is...brine is NOT the answer to every situation. On paper it is, but in reality it isn't. So she might think it's great, but it might not be.


I know this. I also can make hot brine or as I stated before I can pre wet salt and get it done. She knows that brine won't be the answer every time. I have access to all the granulated salt I could ever need.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Get a 100' coil of flexible perforated drain pipe. Cut it into 12-36" lengths with a RAZOR BLADE. Accomplishes the same thing, but far cheaper.


I have heard this before. I just figured the balls would be easier to get out if I needed to clean the tank before pressure wash season.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I know this. I also can make hot brine or as I stated before I can pre wet salt and get it done. She knows that brine won't be the answer every time. I have access to all the granulated salt I could ever need.


If you say so...


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> If you say so...


Why so argumentative?


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

After my pre wet experiment last year I found it to be a waste of time and effort not to mention the cost. Overall it did nothing. I found the trick was prevtreat with liquid and post treat with magic salt. 

I did try I quick shot of straight salt as I was spraying liquid that wasn’t to bad. Far better than pre wet and almost the same cost


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Why so argumentative?


Because he's realistic.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

fireside said:


> After my pre wet experiment last year I found it to be a waste of time and effort not to mention the cost. Overall it did nothing. I found the trick was prevtreat with liquid and post treat with magic salt.
> 
> I did try I quick shot of straight salt as I was spraying liquid that wasn't to bad. Far better than pre wet and almost the same cost


What kind of temps were you spraying in? I watched my plow dealer pre wet a school parking lot (blacktop) with regular brine (23.3% no additives) at 70GPA and we visited the lot the next morning after a 2 inch snow that night. There was still snow on the lot where he sprayed but when he plowed it all off the area that was pre wet had 0 snow-pack and plowed like a heavy wet snow (clung together and cleaned off nice) The other half still had a film and was white. So then he shot it (the part not pre wet) with the same brine at 100GPA and had a melt time of 30 min. This was with 28 degree air temp and I believe it was around 20 degree surface temp.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Because he's realistic.


I never asked for advice on how much or what I should be figuring for salt. I have my end covered in the seasonal price no matter what kind of winter we have. This was supposed to be a thread about pros and cons of snow pushing equipment. I have my answer.. I fed into the other questions too much and it is just as much my fault this was derailed.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I never asked for advice on how much or what I should be figuring for salt. I have my end covered in the seasonal price no matter what kind of winter we have. This was supposed to be a thread about pros and cons of snow pushing equipment. I have my answer.. I fed into the other questions too much and it is just as much my fault this was derailed.


ok, then let's get it back on point Thumbs Up


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Oh it’s sounds like a terms thing. What you are calling pre wet is a pre treatment here. Pre wet is when you spray your salt at the spinner.

I use salt brine for a pre treatment all the time it works great. Than post salt with magic salt


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

fireside said:


> Oh it's sounds like a terms thing. What you are calling pre wet is a pre treatment here. Pre wet is when you spray your salt at the spinner.
> 
> I use salt brine for a pre treatment all the time it works great. Than post salt with magic salt


AHHHH Are you fan spraying or stream spraying the post treatment (after the snow and plowing) brine?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

fireside said:


> Oh it's sounds like a terms thing. What you are calling pre wet is a pre treatment here. Pre wet is when you spray your salt at the spinner.
> 
> I use salt brine for a pre treatment all the time it works great. Than post salt with magic salt


That's why I used the proper terminology: anti-icing.


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## Mike NY (Feb 2, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Problem is...brine is NOT the answer to every situation. On paper it is, but in reality it isn't. So she might think it's great, but it might not be.


I agree,
Insurance companies like to see visible salt. that would be hard to do with brine.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Mike NY said:


> I agree,
> Insurance companies like to see visible salt. that would be hard to do with brine.


Ill throw a dash cam in the de ice truck lol


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> AHHHH Are you fan spraying or stream spraying the post treatment (after the snow and plowing) brine?


I have not tried post treatment or De icing only pre treat or anti ice applications. If we get that great timed storm this year I'm going to try it. Last year it just seemed like every event fell at horrible timing.

I tried fan tips it just seemed to blow around getting all over everything but the pavements. I just stream spray.


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## fendt716 (Jun 11, 2013)

fireside said:


> I have not tried post treatment or De icing only pre treat or anti ice applications. If we get that great timed storm this year I'm going to try it. Last year it just seemed like every event fell at horrible timing.
> 
> I tried fan tips it just seemed to blow around getting all over everything but the pavements. I just stream spray.


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## fendt716 (Jun 11, 2013)

i would look at hla snow wing 10-16 size way more useful then a pusher. cost more but you can do more.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

fendt716 said:


> i would look at hla snow wing 10-16 size way more useful then a pusher. cost more but you can do more.


Maybe next season. I've seen them and they look effective!


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Ill throw a dash cam in the de ice truck lol


Do you have a proper verification process in place? Looks like you're trying to joke about that.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I have a metal pless 6/11 on my 10k machine. It’s new for this season. We have been using a blizzard 810SS with great success. It’s so much bigger than the blizzard. It’s going to be a


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Luther said:


> Do you have a proper verification process in place? Looks like you're trying to joke about that.


Yes I have different application rates and additives based on air temperature and surface temperature. It's part of the scope of work and in my contract.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Yes I have different application rates and additives based on air temperature and surface temperature. It's part of the scope of work and in my contract.


Pretty sure plowlord is referring to proof of service;
Some suggestions:
Time in
Time out
Odometer reading in
Odo. Out
And a signed sheet by the manager stating you were there and your times, leave then a carbon copy and on to the next lot

Edit: before and after photos (time stamped) are also good and a decent vehicle tracker doesn't hurt either


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Yes I have different application rates and additives based on air temperature and surface temperature. It's part of the scope of work and in my contract.


Looks like you're all set


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Luther said:


> Looks like you're all set


All set for what???.....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> All set for what???.....


Winning!!!


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Winning!!!


Winning what???


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Winning what???


Check with @Philbilly2 he has a great analogy.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Check with @Philbilly2 he has a great analogy.


I have no idea what you are talking about....


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Philbilly2 said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about....


Ewe don't?


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

alright, let's get back to discussing equipment suggestions for the OP


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> alright, let's get back to discussing equipment suggestions for the OP


Op?


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Op?


You! The Original Poster, lol


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

It was pretty well covered. And I have a loader reserved. You can close the thread or let it burn lol


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> It was pretty well covered. And I have a loader reserved. You can close the thread or let it burn lol


What loader did you end up going with?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Randall Ave said:


> What loader did you end up going with?


Deere 204k


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

12 MPH top speed...


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> 12 MPH top speed...


I'm fine with that. It's not leaving the parking lot.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I'm fine with that. It's not leaving the parking lot.


Except higher ground speed is about 50% of the advantage of a mini wheel loader over a skid steer. I can think of many many times plowing any one of the Walmart's we do, that I told myself "man it would be nice to go faster than 12 mph right now"


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Except higher ground speed is about 50% of the advantage of a mini wheel loader over a skid steer. I can think of many many times plowing any one of the Walmart's we do, that I told myself "man it would be nice to go faster than 12 mph right now"


I agree it's not ideal. I am ok with it because 1 it's high traffic 2 it's our first year serving them so we want to make a good impression and not run over small children an puppies. 3 the visibility of far greater than a skid.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I will agree the visibility is far better on a loader. Had one, without a doubt nicer than a skid steer, however the ends didn't justify the means for me.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I will agree the visibility is far better on a loader. Had one, without a doubt nicer than a skid steer, however the ends didn't justify the means for me.


If we don't like it that bad I will upgrade mid season. Will cost me $300 for shipping and $900 more a month. Time will tell. I'm going to run a western wideout xl on the property as well. It will also bounce to other accounts during a heavy event but should be able to keep large areas pushed off. Assuming I can get my hands on the xl this late in the season...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I will agree the visibility is far better on a loader. Had one, without a doubt nicer than a skid steer, however the ends didn't justify the means for me.


Compact loader will push more than a skid as well, that extra 3,000# makes a difference.


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## dcamp824 (Dec 21, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Visibility....pushability...bigger is better since most Walmartians are too stupid to get out of the way. But in reality, the first 2. Relatively long pushes with snow that has been driven through, so it's much heavier.
> 
> Personally I think hoes are garbage for plowing.


Couldn't agree more


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## White_Gold11 (Jan 4, 2016)

So there is no specs from service providers for what and/or how much equipment is onsite? In my area there are small loaders and skids in every sams and Walmart parking lot so I figured it was possibly a requirement. Although it could very well just be a need to keep up. It probably varies by region but I would be afraid to use a pickup and a compact loader.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

White_Gold11 said:


> So there is no specs from service providers for what and/or how much equipment is onsite? In my area there are small loaders and skids in every sams and Walmart parking lot so I figured it was possibly a requirement. Although it could very well just be a need to keep up. It probably varies by region but I would be afraid to use a pickup and a compact loader.


We are required to dedicate machines to our WM sites. All varies by region what you need to make it happen as you said.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> ... or let it burn lol


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> We are required to dedicate machines to our WM sites. All varies by region what you need to make it happen as you said.


We were never contractually obligated to dedicate equipment. But we are contractually obligated to due diligence of getting the snow removed in a timely manner. If I lived any further north I could see them making it a contractual requirement. Very excited to see how all the equipment does. It looks like winter will come early! We actually had snow flakes fall last week! I would be ok with not having the first measurable snow until the 10th of December. After that it can snow all it wants.


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