# Is anyone else worried about the future of snow...considering global warming?



## lawntec (Aug 20, 2006)

I have been doing snow and lawns for 16 years, and I have seen heavy record breaking years and light easy ones. This year in my area...we had 20cm. 3 years ago we have 210cm. 

As much as I want to believe that this is just an off year...I know that that for 15 straight months we have broken world average temperature records. Combine the two elements and it is hard not to get a little anxious about this trend.

Thoughts?

BTW: I live 2 hours north of the border of North Dakota.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

http://www.omicsgroup.org/journals/...-for-wise-policy-advice-2167-0587-1000155.pdf

If you believe in something other than Creationism, you and I are living in an area that was under miles and miles of ice several thousand years ago. The glaciers retreated without man.

Same goes for dinosaurs. Once upon a time it was warm enough for them to live, then it cooled.

AGW is bunk. It's just another way for politicians and enviro-nazis to control the way we live and tax the crap out of us. The "scientists" that push AGW on us depend on their funding for AGW to be true. Otherwise they have no reason to exist.

Weather is weather, climate is climate. Not worried about it at all. Nothing I can do about it anyways.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

I just think everything is more extreme on both ends of spectrum.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

iceyman;2137625 said:


> I just think everything is more extreme on both ends of spectrum.


That's only because of the 48 hours of news in 24 hours.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

My $0.02 ($0.03 Canadian)....

How long have they been keeping weather records? Maybe 150-170 years out of how many millions of years? Do they really no, it's kind of like the 500 year flood that happens every 50 years, or wait, it that global warming too. 

I don't know if they/I have enough info to give opinion.

I do believe we need to do our parts to keep the world green regardless.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Going back to 1881 in Denver the snowfall has varied quite a bit, the same can be said for rainfall too.

http://www.thorntonweather.com/noaa/snow.php


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

The earth wobbles as it orbits the sun this effects the climate on earth.

If it wobbled as predicted we would be going into a ice age,
But it didn't wobble as predicted so now they are punting.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

I've been plowing for 20 years now, and I've seen warmer and drier years than this one a few times before. In the late 90's and early 2000's we had 6-7 dismal snow years, wiht maybe one or two at or above "average". I don't see anything new or differnet in the last few years.

Just keep in mind, when "oldtimers" reminice about "how tall the snow banks used to be when they were kids", etc... they were only 3 feet tall. Everything seems bigger when you're a kid. Case in point, my daughter goes ot kindergarten in the same school I did. When I visit now, it looks like Rick Morranis shrunk the entire school down.........


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## flips87chevy (Oct 7, 2013)

The climate is definitely changing up here in northern NY. consistently warmer winters, and they seem to be starting later too, you can honestly plan on doing roofing through November lately. We have ticks like crazy now that weren't here 20 years ago, and the loons (cold weather birds) have been migrating north in significant numbers. I'm not an AGW nut. Just reporting my observations in my small neck of the woods.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Back in the " old times" The glaciers were over a mile thick and covering a good part of the earth

Now nutt'en.
Things sure have warmed up.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

Mark Oomkes;2137623 said:


> http://www.omicsgroup.org/journals/...-for-wise-policy-advice-2167-0587-1000155.pdf
> 
> If you believe in something other than Creationism, you and I are living in an area that was under miles and miles of ice several thousand years ago. The glaciers retreated without man.
> 
> ...


Ditto To The Above Response !!!


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

This topic was just brought up recently in another thread. The claims of global warming alarmists are constantly debunked by scientists who see this "threat to civilization" for what it is - a money grab by liberal politicians who learned a long time ago that you can make a fortune by scaring people.

In a few hundred years people will reflect on the theory of global warming and explain it as one of the greatest hoaxes in the history of mankind.


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## snoboss (Oct 19, 2012)

Been plowin for 35 years I have seen dust flyin on logging roads in the middle of January for lack of snow in the early 80s. Had winters that I would look in the mirror to see if I even would leave a track all winter long. When we had heavy snow years you could count on people jumpin in the snow business the next winter. And that is when you did not want to buy new equipment as it was always followed by a light snow year and the folks who jumped in were gone. While talk of global warming makes politicians feel important I like to think someone else is still in charge. If you been following the news we all have bigger fish to fry.imo


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## plowboss (Oct 29, 2002)

*Global warming my @&&*

Been plowing and paying attention to the weather for 35 years..The only thing you can count on is that next year's weather will be a little different than this year's. Some winters will be huge snow producers, others not so much. You can't control or predict it so take what Mother Nature gives.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

The earth is just repeating itself, We had record breaking temperatures and unusual snow amounts before. High level and low level amounts. Next snow season will be different. 

I'll plead the fifth on the global warning thing  The snow is not gone and never will be. Not the first time I sat on my butt during the winter season. How about summer rainfalls where you can't get nothing done. We will on be fine.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Winter is still hanging oot ootwest....


Winter Storm Watch

Issued: 1:06 PM MDT Apr. 14, 2016 – National Weather Service 


... Winter Storm Watch in effect from late Friday night through
late Saturday night... 

The National Weather Service in Denver has issued a Winter Storm
Watch... which will be in effect from late Friday night through
late Saturday night.

* Timing... evening thunderstorms Friday night are expected to
transition to widespread rain later in the evening. Rain will
change over to snow by midnight or during the early morning
hours Saturday. Snow is then expected to continue through the
day Saturday and Saturday night. Lighter snow is expected on
Sunday.

* Snow accumulations... accumulations of 8 to 14 inches will be
possible by Sunday morning. The high density snow will tend to
settle as it accumulates... so that snow depths could remain less
than 8 inches. 

* Wind/visibility... north to northeast winds 15 to 25
mph... especially east of I-25.

Above 7000' they're calling for up to 4'


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

BUFF;2138213 said:


> Winter is still hanging oot ootwest....
> 
> Winter Storm Watch
> 
> ...


Run, run to the flat lands


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Mark Oomkes;2137623 said:


> http://www.omicsgroup.org/journals/...-for-wise-policy-advice-2167-0587-1000155.pdf
> 
> If you believe in something other than Creationism, you and I are living in an area that was under miles and miles of ice several thousand years ago. The glaciers retreated without man.
> 
> ...


And there are no earth quakes or hurricanes too.


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Nope. Not remotely worried


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

1olddogtwo;2138231 said:


> Run, run to the flat lands


Hell no, that's east......lol


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Today is 4/15/2016. Should be thinking about moving equipment back to lay down yard. We are done by our contracts. Since it's Friday I'm passing. I'm a creature of habit and just looking forward to happy hour. :redbounce


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

My thoughts exactly ......Thumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Lay down yard=nap????


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

SHAWZER;2138338 said:


> My thoughts exactly ......Thumbs Up


Thumbs Up :waving: .............................


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mark Oomkes;2138340 said:


> Lay down yard=nap????


:laughing: Yes, I have not figured out how to use the loaders in the summer.   :laughing:


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Can not drink all day unless you start in the morning .....:laughing:


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Would be fun to try the morning thing. Been a long time, Wonder if I can still hold up.:laughing:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Guys...........drinking all day or even part of it has nothing to do with global warming.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Sure it does , more methane gas from more people outside warming things up .


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF;2138268 said:


> Hell no, that's east......lol


I hear Billerica, Mass is a friendly town.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;2138364 said:


> Guys...........drinking all day or even part of it has nothing to do with global warming.


thanks, Mark, for trying to steer this back on course, I appreciate it Thumbs Up


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Michael J. Donovan;2138372 said:


> thanks, Mark, for trying to steer this back on course, I appreciate it Thumbs Up


We all try in our own powerless ways.

Congratulations Mark.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Lets stay on topic. Who is a scientist on this site? The ones that are involved with global warming have no evidence or facts. Furthermore if the earth does warm up you will just be mowing more or whatever you do in the summer months. If you have no summer earnings you will have to find some.

What are we back to reading the super market tabloids. If where not going to have any banter fine, I could careless. You can't have it both ways. All this over one cry baby......


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

FredG;2138392 said:


> . All this over one cry baby......


Fred eat a Snickers Bar 



 you're getting cranky 
We all have opinions that some don't agree with.Thumbs Up


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

BUFF;2138396 said:


> Fred eat a Snickers Bar
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: I'm not cranky, Actually in a great mood. Just snapped for a second. I'm cool.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

I wonder if the alcohol off my breath tonight will effect the ozone layer and contribute to global warming. :whistling: Please be green.Thumbs Up


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

FredG;2138392 said:


> Lets stay on topic. Who is a scientist on this site? The ones that are involved with global warming have no evidence or facts. Furthermore if the earth does warm up you will just be mowing more or whatever you do in the summer months. If you have no summer earnings you will have to find some.
> 
> What are we back to reading the super market tabloids. If where not going to have any banter fine, I could careless. You can't have it both ways. All this over one cry baby......


If that's directed at me, then I take offense to it.

To stay ON TOPIC...I'm not worried about Global Warming. I am, however, worried about guys who can't stay on topic.Thumbs Up


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

FredG;2138392 said:


> Lets stay on topic. Who is a scientist on this site? The ones that are involved with global warming have no evidence or facts. Furthermore if the earth does warm up you will just be mowing more or whatever you do in the summer months. If you have no summer earnings you will have to find some.
> 
> What are we back to reading the super market tabloids. If where not going to have any banter fine, I could careless. You can't have it both ways. All this over one cry baby......


 I think the closet we have to a scientist is the aero space fellow


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

WIPensFan;2138412 said:


> If that's directed at me, then I take offense to it.
> 
> To stay ON TOPIC...I'm not worried about Global Warming. I am, however, worried about guys who can't stay on topic.Thumbs Up


You can bet your last dollar it was directed to you.Thumbs Up And a few of us took offense to your childish comment this morning, The way I see it it's even. Very simple don't start non won't be none. You must be worried all the time! I seldom see anything stay on topic.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

FredG;2138426 said:


> You can bet your last dollar it was directed to you.Thumbs Up And a few of us took offense to your childish comment this morning, The way I see it it's even. Very simple don't start non won't be none. You must be worried all the time! I seldom see anything stay on topic.


Whatever Fred.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

What worries me is those that are worried about those that worry about taking a thread oof topic.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

c'mon now, I think we can get back to global warming, can't we? or at least try to in order to keep the thread alive

thanks :waving:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I agree.......


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Most work in the dirt and snow. It is not that hard to get off topic. Wages, Employment, equipment, trucks, Taxes, Clients, Shops, Insurance etc. Most of the time you don't hear a peep out of MJD as I know he has thick skin.

We all have different views on things and I'm the worst sticking up for my believes. If I'm not interested in someones thread I glaze over it and move on. This whole thing seems petty to me. Forgive me if I'm wrong.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Global warming makes Hotheads.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

1olddogtwo;2138524 said:


> Global warming makes Hotheads.


:laughing::laughing::laughing: Look who the cat dragged in. Almost 70 here. What are you on your first smoke and coffee. Windows wide open, And no buff the flies aren't getting out. :laughing: :laughing:


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

We have had the snowiest amount of days since April (just month) 2002.

Last Saturday about a half inch fell,required a salting. Today it's already 75.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Wearing shorts early in the week, today low 30's and light snow since aboot 11am continuing into tomorrow...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/04/oh-cold-snap/#axzz462N3kPAa


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

As the Earth evolves, the climates will change. We might be helping things along. But not to the extent some scientists state.


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## snoworks1 (Jul 11, 2009)

I live in the Chicago area. If you look up the past 100 years of snowfall totals, it seams to go in cycles. Nothing new under the sun!

Peace.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

As long as we average a 2' blizzard every other year ill br happy


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

2013/2014 snow season was real cold around here, Plenty of snow and earning where good. 2015/2016 5.5 inch total snowfall out of 52'' average. I highly doubt this will happen again in the near future. Global warming BS or not.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

50.1 inches this year. 49 is average. The local weather guy predicted 45-55 inches. Props to him this year. Overall he hits it pretty close.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Plowed 5-6" of cement this morning (5400'<>) and went up to aboot 9000' and there was 24" <>.
Typical spring ootwest.


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## fartbox333 (Nov 10, 2008)

Global warming is real and there is plenty of scientific facts to back that up. I know I'm opening myself up to you bashers but the facts are there. Some just choose to listen to those who are jamming thier opinions down our throats rather than do a little fact checking on thier own.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

fartbox333;2139200 said:


> Global warming is real and there is plenty of scientific facts to back that up. I know I'm opening myself up to you bashers but the facts are there. Some just choose to listen to those who are jamming thier opinions down our throats rather than do a little fact checking on thier own.


Of course it's true, if it weren't I'd be under a mile of ice right now. There wouldn't be any Lake Michigan or any of the other Great Lakes. (except for the last 18 or so years) and (it might not be quite as accurate based on all the "adjustments" those "scientists" have made)

So, can you tell me how much man has influenced the retreat of the glaciers that used to cover Canada and a good portion of the northern US?


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Its only logical the earth is warming. If you have 5 people or 15 in a room, the room will be warmer the more people are in it.

Just like the earth, there are more people, cars, animals, etc. Homes/buildings reflect and radiate heat so do parking lots. This all would add to more heat in the atmosphere making earth slightly warmer than 100 or so years ago.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

fartbox333;2139200 said:


> Global warming is real and there is plenty of scientific facts to back that up. I know I'm opening myself up to you bashers but the facts are there. Some just choose to listen to those who are jamming thier opinions down our throats rather than do a little fact checking on thier own.


Ya but it's all smoke, Similar to a politician. Not factual or proven,


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Global warming as a man-made issue is a scam. Here's another article showing that these are typical weather\climate cycles.

_

Sea surface temperature anomalies: August 2014 (top), Today (bottom) where above-normal is represented by yellows, oranges and reds, below-normal is represented by blues and purples; courtesy NOAA

Overview
In addition to solar cycles, temperature cycles in the planet's oceans play critical roles in our ever changing climate and also on the extent of global sea ice. Oceanic temperature cycles are often quite long-lasting and a warm or cold phase can persist for two or three decades at a time. In general, the Atlantic Ocean experienced a cold phase from the early 1960's to the mid 1990's at which time it flipped to a warm phase and that has continued for the most part ever since. The current warm phase; however, is now showing signs of a possible long-term shift back to colder-than-normal sea surface temperatures (SST) and this could have serious implications on US climate and sea ice areal extent in the Northern Hemisphere.

Recent temperature trends in the Atlantic Ocean 
The comparison chart (above) of SST anomalies between August 2014 (top) and today (bottom) shows a big drop in temperatures across much of the northern Atlantic Ocean. The rather limited colder-than-normal (blue) patches from August 2014 have increased noticeably in areal extent when compared to the most recent measurements. Also, the well above-normal waters (orange) of August 2014 that existed east and south of Greenland have cooled off dramatically during this time period and there has even been a switch from well above-normal (orange) to below-normal (blue) in sections.

Long-term temperature trends in the Atlantic Ocean
On a longer time scale, there is supporting evidence from the National Oceanographic Data Center that something significant is indeed occurring in the Atlantic Ocean. Since around early 2007, there has been a definitive downward trend in "monthly heat content anomaly" in the top 700 meters of the northern Atlantic Ocean (arrow region). The heat content in this part of the Atlantic Ocean ramped up rather sharply beginning around the middle 1990's and seemingly peaked during early 2007.

Global monthly heat content anomaly (GJ/m2) in the uppermost 700 m of the North Atlantic since January 1955. The thin line indicates monthly values and the thick line represents the simple running 37 month (c. 3 year) average. Data source: National Oceanographic Data Center (NODC), climate4you.com. Last period shown: October-December 2015.

Global monthly heat content anomaly (GJ/m2) in the uppermost 700 m of the North Atlantic since January 1955. The thin line indicates monthly values and the thick line represents the simple running 37 month (c. 3 year) average. Data source: National Oceanographic Data Center (NODC), climate4you.com. Last period shown: October-December 2015.

Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO)
One way meteorologists can monitor sea surface temperature patterns in the North Atlantic Ocean is through an index value known as the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO). Positive (negative) phases of the AMO coincide with warmer (colder) North Atlantic sea surface temperatures. The AMO is linked with decadal climate fluctuations such as European summer precipitation, Atlantic hurricanes and variations in global temperatures. The monthly values for the AMO index are shown in the plot below for the period of 1870-2015 where positive values (reds) represent warmer-than-normal time periods and negative values (blues) indicate cold phases. Sea surface temperature cycles have tended to last for two or three decades at a time before phase changes take place. The last major phase change (cold-to-warm) took place right around the mid-point of the 1990's (arrow). The AMO index appears to have reached a peak in this current (warm) phase during the latter part of last decade and it has generally been descending during the past few years providing support to the notion that a cool-down is indeed occurring in the North Atlantic.
Observed AMO index, defined as detrended 10-year low-pass filtered annual mean area-averaged SST anomalies over the North Atlantic basin (0N-65N, 80W-0E), using HadISST dataset (Rayner, et al., 2003) for the period 1870-2015.; courtesy NCAR: https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data/atlantic-multi-decadal-oscillation-amo

Observed AMO index, defined as detrended 10-year low-pass filtered annual mean area-averaged SST anomalies over the North Atlantic basin (0N-65N, 80W-0E), using HadISST dataset (Rayner, et al., 2003) for the period 1870-2015.; courtesy NCAR: https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data/atlantic-multi-decadal-oscillation-amo

Computer model forecast for Atlantic Ocean sea surface temperatures
One indication that this apparent downward trend in Atlantic Ocean sea surface temperatures will indeed have some staying power comes from the Japan Agency for Marine-Earth Science and Technology (JAMSTEC). JAMSTEC's global seasonal forecasting of sea surface temperature anomalies has a pretty good track record and its most recent long-range forecast (below) suggests there will be a fairly widespread area of colder-than-normal water in the northern Atlantic Ocean during the winter season of 2016-2017 (circled blue region).
JAMSTEC model forecast of sea surface temperature anomalies for winter season 2016-2017; courtesy Japan Agency for Marine-Earth Science and Technology

JAMSTEC model forecast of sea surface temperature anomalies for winter season 2016-2017; courtesy Japan Agency for Marine-Earth Science and Technology

Ramifications on Northern Hemisphere sea ice areal extent
If the Atlantic Ocean is indeed slipping back into a colder-than-normal phase (i.e., negative AMO) then this would quite likely have a significant impact on Northern Hemisphere (NH) sea ice areal extent. The NH sea ice areal extent was generally at above-normal levels before the middle 1990's (arrow in plot below) which is when the Atlantic Ocean temperature phase change took place from cold-to-warm. Once the warm phase of the Atlantic Ocean became established in the late 1990's, the NH sea ice areal extent trended sharply downward from positive levels into well below-normal territory. In recent years, there has been a jagged, but generally sideways trend in NH sea ice areal extent at those well below-normal levels. However, if these recent signs of a possible long-term Atlantic Ocean temperature phase change from warm-to-cold are real and sustained (sometimes there are false starts), then the NH sea ice areal extent will very likely return to above-normal levels in the not too distant future - just as it was during the last cold phase pre-mid 1990's.
Northern Hemisphere sea ice areal extent from 1979-2015; courtesy University of Illinois "cryosphere", NOAA

Northern Hemisphere sea ice areal extent from 1979-2015; courtesy University of Illinois "cryosphere", NOAA

Potential ramifications of an Atlantic Ocean temperature shift on US Climate 
The largest body of water in the world by far is the Pacific Ocean and it is well understood that its temperature cycles play a critically important role in weather and climate not only in the US, but throughout the world. While the Atlantic Ocean is far smaller than the Pacific Ocean, its temperature cycles can also play an important role in the US for weather and climate. In an effort to investigate the possible impact of Atlantic Ocean temperature cycles on US climate, wintertime (DJF) temperature anomaly maps were generated for two distinct twenty-year periods. The first period is 1975-1995 which generally featured a cold phase in the Atlantic Ocean and the second period encompasses the current warm phase period of 1995-2015. The differences in wintertime US temperature anomalies are quite dramatic for these two twenty-year periods. The cold phase from 1975-1995 featured colder-than-normal winters on average throughout the US whereas in the recent 20-year warm phase period of 1995-2015, the opposite took place with virtually nationwide warmer-than-normal winters. No doubt many other important factors played a role in the weather conditions during the past forty winter seasons (e.g., El Nino/La Nino), but these dramatic differences in US temperatures that took place during different phases of the Atlantic Ocean suggest it is definitely something to monitor closely over the next several years.

Meteorologist Paul Dorian
Vencore, Inc._


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

One more..........

http://www.ancient-code.com/hidden-world-antarctica-researchers-reveal-lies-beneath-ice/


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Good reading Mark, Nothing really out of the ordinary. Just the earth repeating its self.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

The movie kingsman has a theory too. Actually a decent movie IMO


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Whiffyspark;2140724 said:


> The movie kingsman has a theory too. Actually a decent movie IMO


Never seen it, Whats the theory?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Whiffyspark;2140724 said:


> The movie kingsman has a theory too. Actually a decent movie IMO


You just want to have the hotty at the end of the flick........


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

Mark Oomkes;2140719 said:


> Global warming as a man-made issue is a scam. Here's another article showing that these are typical weather\climate cycles.
> 
> _
> 
> ...


Way too many words. Can I get cliffs notes or better yet just one witty meme to summarize?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

...........................


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

:laughing:...:laughing:....:laughing:


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Warm winter, cold spring so far.......

Oh my god, mother nature is cycling with my old lady.

Once we are sampling .00000000001 years since the evolution of existence.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Maclawnco;2140790 said:


> Way too many words. Can I get cliffs notes or better yet just one witty meme to summarize?


A post should have no more then 30 syllables.

This is why I leave out key words.


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