# Snowblowing / shoveling driveways... Unprofessional?



## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

What do you guys think about operators who have to drive to their customers house, get out, unload their equipment, fill their snowthrower with gas, get it started, make tons of passes, reload their snowthrower, and sweat thier you know whats off in their truck between houses? 

Seems like a rinky-dink operation to me. Not to mention a huge waste of time. I also think a plow with a good edge can clear a drive much more clean then a snowblower can. Seems like the sort of operation that just can't afford a real plow.


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## Bowtytek (Oct 22, 2007)

some customers probably would rather not have huge snowbanks and the potential for damaged lawn and got with someone who snowblows. more power to that person doing the work tho, i like the warmth of a truck myself.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Bowtytek;847683 said:


> some customers probably would rather not have huge snowbanks and the potential for damaged lawn and got with someone who snowblows. more power to that person doing the work tho, i like the warmth of a truck myself.


Good points.


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

I like to stay in my truck


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## Scottscape (Nov 27, 2005)

no its not unprofessional. The lawn guy does it right? You do good with what you got to do it with. Actually a snowblower can do a much better job than a plow can


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## MSS Mow (Mar 19, 2006)

A guy who snowblows a drive isn't necessarily unprofessional.

There are those who snowblow who are professional, and those who are unprofessional.

There are those who plow with a pickup who are professional, and those who are unprofessional.

There are those who plow with a skid steer who are professional, and those who are unprofessional.

There are those who plow with a 10 wheeler (municipal) who are professional, and those who are unprofessional.

There are those who plow with a loader and pusher who are professional, and those who are unprofessional.

The list goes on and on. Your choice of equipment isn't what makes a person professional/unprofessional. It's how we operate that equipment, maintain it, treat our customers, etc, etc, etc.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

MSS Mow;847738 said:


> A guy who snowblows a drive isn't necessarily unprofessional.
> 
> There are those who snowblow who are professional, and those who are unprofessional.
> 
> ...


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^What he said.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Does he get the job done to the customer's satisfaction? That's all that counts.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

All good points guys. But I did get a good chuckle when I saw that my post was just above a semi-related post in the "new posts".


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## lawnproslawncar (Dec 9, 2007)

So what about the guys like Jon Geer on her who has a $30,000 +/- snow blower for driveways? 
Don't be jealous that he is smart.


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

MSS Mow;847738 said:


> A guy who snowblows a drive isn't necessarily unprofessional.
> 
> There are those who snowblow who are professional, and those who are unprofessional.
> 
> ...






JDiepstra;847674 said:


> What do you guys think about operators who have to drive to their customers house, get out, unload their equipment, fill their snowthrower with gas, get it started, make tons of passes, reload their snowthrower, and sweat thier you know whats off in their truck between houses?
> 
> Seems like a rinky-dink operation to me. Not to mention a huge waste of time. I also think a plow with a good edge can clear a drive much more clean then a snowblower can. Seems like the sort of operation that just can't afford a real plow.


Looking at your sig you list a snowblower and a shovel.............hmmmmmmm


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

toby4492;847827 said:


> Looking at your sig you list a snowblower and a shovel.............hmmmmmmm


Yes my truck doesn't fit on some of the sidewalks at my commercial properties. Not rocket science.


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

When I read this thread, I'm getting like some sorta deja vu feeling or something...


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

JDiepstra;847909 said:


> Yes my truck doesn't fit on some of the sidewalks at my commercial properties. Not rocket science.


So do you have to unload it and gas it up then too


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

cubicinches;847920 said:


> When I read this thread, I'm getting like some sorta deja vu feeling or something...


Didn't you just say that?

Re: OPs question I mean, yeah, sort of. For sure. I am professional grade. Like my truck.

I have more money tied up in my stereo than he has in a snowblower. Plus there's the lift kit, Rockstars, Nottos, Hypertech programmer, custom dual exhaust, CAI, all those KC Daylighters, 87 flashing strobes, LEDs, rotating beacon, I mean, when I show up, I look cool. You hear me, see me, and pay me. I don't really care about ripping up the lawn. I try to lift the blade at the edge of the lawn, but you know, I have to adjust my XM radio and stuff. And I'm fast. Two minutes and I'm done. That'll be thirty bucks. I don't really care about those little old ladies shovelling, they can call their grandkids or something

But whatever. If you can go out wiht a blower in the back of your Ridgeline, whatever dude.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

cubicinches;847920 said:


> When I read this thread, I'm getting like some sorta deja vu feeling or something...


You are the only one who has gotten it so far.......


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

JDiepstra;847966 said:


> You are the only one who has gotten it so far.......


Uh, hello?

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=87993&highlight=irks&page=4

Post 70


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

I know a lot of people with some real fancy stamped concrete driveways that would *never* let anyone drop a blade on it. The real pro would use a shovel or blower for those customers.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Bajak;848074 said:


> I know a lot of people with some real fancy stamped concrete driveways that would *never* let anyone drop a blade on it. The real pro would use a shovel or blower for those customers.


No I use a 7.5' Daniels pull plow with a urethane edge on it. Snowblower would take too long unless it was a tractor style like blomwerman and Neige.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

just a question here, how long does everyone think it takes to do 2 inches of shovelling on a two lane driveway, and front sidewalk? bet few people get it right.


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Bajak;848074 said:


> I know a lot of people with some real fancy stamped concrete driveways that would *never* let anyone drop a blade on it. The real pro would use a shovel or blower for those customers.


Actually, I just tell those people to find someone else. I actually like my competition to get the customers with all of the "special needs"... my guys are plowing dozens of drives while they're busy doing backflips for one customer.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

buckwheat_la;848109 said:


> just a question here, how long does everyone think it takes to do 2 inches of shovelling on a two lane driveway, and front sidewalk? bet few people get it right.


Too long? tymusic


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Grassman09;848171 said:


> Too long? tymusic


I'd say you've got it right! :salute:


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

buckwheat_la;848109 said:


> just a question here, how long does everyone think it takes to do 2 inches of shovelling on a two lane driveway, and front sidewalk? bet few people get it right.


Longer than it takes me to plow it.

Also, are you including the time it takes your guy to slip, fall, break his elbow, go to the emergency room, and rack up medical and workers comp bills for you?


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## stackmaster (Nov 6, 2008)

I find that plowing is the easiest way depending on the snow. If you have to backdrag with a plow, it doesn't always do a great job depending on the type of snow. Sometimes a snowthrower or gravely sweeper just do a cleaner job.


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## lawnproslawncar (Dec 9, 2007)

Snow blowing is quite professional and profitable in my opinion, just get a front mount commercial mower and go go go...or a toolcat!


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

well since no one wants to give a real answer, i am going to put it out there, statisically speaking, (we keep loose records of this) a two man crew, one with a 42 inch snow push the other with a smaller shovel, we plan on having all walks and driveways done in about 4-6 minutes, 10 minutes if there is a bad drift, now a bunch of people are going to look at this post and give me a hard time, however here are my postives about doing by hand and snowblowers
1 i don't have high maintenance costs, other then buying a lot of shovels 
2 detailing is easy to do,when we leave it is nothing but blacktop
3 over 10 years doing snow removal and i can count on one hand the amount we have had to repair, and i would say under $100 dollars total over the 10 years (we need to replace the odd drainpipe) no grass repair, no concrete/driveway repairs, ever
4 i have had 1 workers comp and that was for a guy who had a bad back but lied to me in his interview, when he filled out the questionaire about his physical ability he wrote that he had no conditions
5 No slip and falls, not one, (fingers crossed)

i am not saying that plowing is bad, but lets not knock the advantages of the good ole fashioned shovel
it has treated me well


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

And how long when you get 2 feet of snow in 24 hours and the plow truck has a 4' berm at the end of the driveway?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

JDiepstra;848376 said:


> And how long when you get 2 feet of snow in 24 hours and the plow truck has a 4' berm at the end of the driveway?


How often does that happen?


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

well, where we are at we rarely get 2 feet at a time, but when we do, we pull out our two sub compact tractors, our 5 snowblowers, and in the case of last year where we had a day where some places had 8 foot drifts, our 2skidsteers. just a question, but when you have 4 feet sitting against a builiding, what do you do? i have read on here how some companies carry a toro snow blower with them? so really we all adapt.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

cretebaby;848379 said:


> How often does that happen?


Answer a question with a question? How is that helpful?


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

well i answered it, and you haven't answered mine as of yet, what do you do when you have 4-6 foot drifts up against the house or garage?


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

JDiepstra;847674 said:


> What do you guys think about operators who have to drive to their customers house, get out, unload their equipment, fill their snowthrower with gas, get it started, make tons of passes, reload their snowthrower, and sweat thier you know whats off in their truck between houses?
> 
> Seems like a rinky-dink operation to me. Not to mention a huge waste of time. I also think a plow with a good edge can clear a drive much more clean then a snowblower can. Seems like the sort of operation that just can't afford a real plow.


That was my duty shift last winter. 4 foot snowthrower on the front of a 1300 pound John Deere mower. Unstrap Deere, ramp off the back, blow lot and back on the truck. Carrier truck was the oldest and unbladed truck we had. People actually requested that unit because of the detail work it could do, as well as the front sidewalk. It would take about 10 minutes longer to blow than plow, but got every where on the lot. By the way sweating is not what is done. By the time I would finish I would resemble the old Arctic explorers after a bad blizzard. We have 4 Boss plows, 5 Chevy's a John Deere and a Bobcat skidsteer


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

JDiepstra;848392 said:


> Answer a question with a question? How is that helpful?


Nice try.


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## vinny69 (Sep 7, 2009)

Bajak;848074 said:


> I know a lot of people with some real fancy stamped concrete driveways that would *never* let anyone drop a blade on it. The real pro would use a shovel or blower for those customers.


I agree,I have never seen a driveway plowed with a truck where i live.Its all done by snow blowers or sweepers. I use a sweeper, Sweepers get rid of 99% of the snow with NO damage ever..


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## MSS Mow (Mar 19, 2006)

vinny69;848564 said:


> I agree,I have never seen a driveway plowed with a truck where i live.Its all done by snow blowers or sweepers. I use a sweeper, Sweepers get rid of 99% of the snow with NO damage ever..


How does a sweeper work with a foot of heavy, wet snow?


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Up by me, I can't imagine snowblowing these driveways. They just seem way too long for a blower, plus we do get 2' snow storms fairly often, mostly 1-1 1/2' storms though.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

2COR517;847950 said:


> Didn't you just say that?
> 
> Re: OPs question I mean, yeah, sort of. For sure. I am professional grade. Like my truck.
> 
> ...


:laughing::laughing::laughing:



JDiepstra;847966 said:


> You are the only one who has gotten it so far.......


I doubt it, they're just smart enough to not to fall hook, line and sinker.

Sure was nice and quiet while you were gone visiting BD.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;848715 said:


> Sure was nice and quiet while you were gone visiting BD.


Now that is funny :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

MSS Mow;848627 said:


> How does a sweeper work with a foot of heavy, wet snow?


Basically the same way a thrower does.



Mark Oomkes;848715 said:


> Sure was nice and quiet while you were gone visiting BD.


To bad he didn't stay.


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;848715Sure was nice and quiet while you were gone visiting BD.[/QUOTE said:


> We have a winner  :laughing: :salute: xysport


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

My next door neighbor get's her drive way done with snow blowers. 4 guys in a van pull up and knock out the drive way and walks in about 10 minutes. It's kinda comical to watch but they get the job done. Oh ya they charge $75 for a $25 drive way and had 8 other accounts on my block last year... Professional or not they are making some damn good money with almost no over head costs.


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## Exact Services (Oct 11, 2008)

nekos;849289 said:


> My next door neighbor get's her drive way done with snow blowers. 4 guys in a van pull up and knock out the drive way and walks in about 10 minutes. It's kinda comical to watch but they get the job done. Oh ya they charge $75 for a $25 drive way and had 8 other accounts on my block last year... Professional or not they are making some damn good money with almost no over head costs.


$75 for snowblowing a $25 plowing driveway. payup Sweet!

I take it they are using single stage blowers?

Can you see if you can get some contact information and invite the owner honcho of the company to post his business model wisdom here on plowsite? 

I can see a 2 man crew but 4 ...?


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

Exact Services;849519 said:


> $75 for snowblowing a $25 plowing driveway. payup Sweet!
> 
> I take it they are using single stage blowers?
> 
> ...


All 4 of them start in the middle of the drive way. 2 blow the snow to one side the other 2 the other way. One breaks off to do the walk way up to the house the other does the side walk at the end of the drive. By the time the 2 guys doing the walks are done and loaded back into the van they help the other 2 load the snow blowers. It's kinda funny to watch but they do get the job done.

As for their business model, We had a kid get hit by a car a few years back. He was playing on a snowbank at the end of his driveway and i guess walked into the street and got hit. Ever since then snow blowers in my neighbor hood have been at a premium.

(edit)
Yup , all single stage snow blowers. I'm not 100% but i think they use craftsmen snow blowers.


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## lawnboy11 (Aug 22, 2000)

Snowblowers only here. Small properties though.

How do I put it....using a snowblower is like using a 21" mower on a tiny lawn- comes out great.
If you used a 60" ZTR it wouldn't fit on the lawn or thru the gate- maybe you could do half the lawn, but can't do the back. Same thing- here, in dense suburbia snowblowers are the only way to get the job done. Depends on your location- I'd love to sit on a 60" ztr all day, but can't. In areas with bigger properties and long drives a ZTR (plow) is the only way to go. Here the drives are 20-50' long.

On LI there is no such thing as NOT doing walks and steps. Why hire someone to do half the job?

If I plowed the drive I'd still have to blow the walks and shovel the steps. Snowblowing small properties is easier and better (i.e. more "professional")

also- anyone that thinks he is a snowplow or snowblowing "professional" should take it easy. Yes, it's what I (we) do for a living in the winter- but how much skill is really involved?

I'm a professional. No you're not. Yes I am. No you're not. Yes I am. wah wah freakin' wah!!!!
(all in good fun).


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

nekos;849289 said:


> My next door neighbor get's her drive way done with snow blowers. 4 guys in a van pull up and knock out the drive way and walks in about 10 minutes. It's kinda comical to watch but they get the job done. Oh ya they charge $75 for a $25 drive way and had 8 other accounts on my block last year... Professional or not they are making some damn good money with almost no over head costs.


If you think there are no overhead costs with sending four guys out in a van with four snowblowers, you are sadly mistaken.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

2COR517;849598 said:


> If you think there are no overhead costs with sending four guys out in a van with four snowblowers, you are sadly mistaken.


It does seem like 4 guys might get a little expensive when it comes time to pay them and their taxes and insurance............ I guess you only pay the last two if you are legit though......

I wonder if they live in that van.... down by the river. RIP Chris Farley.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

2COR517;849598 said:


> If you think there are no overhead costs with sending four guys out in a van with four snowblowers, you are sadly mistaken.


What???????


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

JDiepstra;849609 said:


> I wonder if they live in that van.... down by the river. RIP Chris Farley.


:laughing:


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

nekos;849289 said:


> My next door neighbor get's her drive way done with snow blowers. 4 guys in a van pull up and knock out the drive way and walks in about 10 minutes. It's kinda comical to watch but they get the job done. Oh ya they charge $75 for a $25 drive way and had 8 other accounts on my block last year... Professional or not they are making some damn good money with almost no over head costs.


how much snow (or how large is her place) that it take 10 minutes with 4 guys to do her drive?


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

If the driveway is 1/4 mile long, are you going to use a snow blower? That's what I thought. I think it all boils down to what the customer wants and whether or not the driveway can handle being plowed with a blade and not damage it. If your talking a driveway that is only 2 car lengths long then a blower can be fairly efficient. All the customers I clear driveways for are plowed with a Grizzly 660. The rest (walkways) get shoveled. I make more money verses time spent plowing snow with what was purpose bought to play on, then the 10K mower I bought to cut lawns!


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

2COR517;849598 said:


> If you think there are no overhead costs with sending four guys out in a van with four snowblowers, you are sadly mistaken.


These guys work for them self and i highly doubt pay taxes or have insurance. They can pay off their rusted out van and $200 snow blowers in a night. The rest is profit.



buckwheat_la;849688 said:


> how much snow (or how large is her place) that it take 10 minutes with 4 guys to do her drive?


2 cars wide, 2 1/2 cars long. I never measured my drive way so i don't know exactly. Anyway, I will try and get some pictures or video of them. I'm usually working long before these guys show up though.


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## Exact Services (Oct 11, 2008)

nekos;849792 said:


> These guys work for them self and i highly doubt pay taxes or have insurance. They can pay off their rusted out van and $200 snow blowers in a night. The rest is profit.
> 
> 2 cars wide, 2 1/2 cars long. I never measured my drive way so i don't know exactly. Anyway, I will try and get some pictures or video of them. I'm usually working long before these guys show up though.


By myself I can knock out that sized driveway to the street and front steps walk, even front sidewalks in less than 15-20 min with a Toro single 421Q or 221Q as long as the snow isn't much over 8" and is fairly light and not wet.

The draw back in having more than one blower running is the annoyance factor with the neighbors especially if it's an early am or late pm visit.


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## lawnboy11 (Aug 22, 2000)

Exact Services;849906 said:


> By myself I can knock out that sized driveway to the street and front steps walk, even front sidewalks in less than 15-20 min with a Toro single 421Q or 221Q as long as the snow isn't much over 8" and is fairly light and not wet.
> 
> The draw back in having more than one blower running is the annoyance factor with the neighbors especially if it's an early am or late pm visit.


Hi Mr . Exact Services- quick question for ya...

Do you prefer the Honda or the Toro single stage blower?
I ask because I might get another blower but haven't tried the newest toros (421Q).

I currently have Toro snow commanders and a honda hs520 as well. I like them both, but I think I prefer the honda for the lower noise and cleaner exhaust. What say you? thanks.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

OMG I must be a hack, I would have 15 - 20 drives done in that time how unprofessional. No wait I did it with a blower so I am a professional, oh no wrong thread how unprofessional. Professionally speaking I think its unprofessional to say its unprofessional if you dont professionally clear snow like a professional. :laughing:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Neige;850031 said:


> OMG I must be a hack, I would have 15 - 20 drives done in that time how unprofessional. No wait I did it with a blower so I am a professional, oh no wrong thread how unprofessional. Professionally speaking I think its unprofessional to say its unprofessional if you dont professionally clear snow like a professional. :laughing:


Just found my new sig quote.

Thanks Paul. :laughing::laughing:


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Wow im honoured.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Neige;850031 said:


> OMG I must be a hack, I would have 15 - 20 drives done in that time how unprofessional. No wait I did it with a blower so I am a professional, oh no wrong thread how unprofessional. Professionally speaking I think its unprofessional to say its unprofessional if you dont professionally clear snow like a professional. :laughing:


But most importantly, is your truck professional grade?


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## Exact Services (Oct 11, 2008)

lawnboy11;850025 said:


> Hi Mr . Exact Services- quick question for ya...
> 
> Do you prefer the Honda or the Toro single stage blower?
> I ask because I might get another blower but haven't tried the newest toros (421Q).
> ...


Lawnboy11,

I just ordered out the Honda 520 mainly for the reason of being quieter in the early morning or late night like you said. When I get a chance to use it - I will directly compare with the Toros and post my thoughts. Last years Toro 421Q [the one I have] is powered by a Tecumseh engine. This years Toro 421Q has a Toro 4 stroke engine...whatever that is?....and the Spec show it being heavier this year?

My 421Q has just a tad more grunt than the 221Q in throwing the snow. I was expecting the opposite. The only thing I don't like is the added weight over the 221Q and the fact that sometimes the 421Q has some kick back on the compression stroke when starting? Maybe it just my 421...not sure. My 421Q seems to run rough and rattle but it has worked out fine for me and it's probably the nature of the engine from what I have read else where.

The Quick Shoot control Toros are lighting fast and I believe the edge goes to these single stage units for being the fastest most productive singles for that reason. They also start pulling forwards once you engage with out lifting up in the back like the older Toros.

The downfall of the Quick Shoot Toros is having the cables freeze up and then the shoot is stuck in a fixed position and you have to work with this handicap until you can warm it. This season I'm going to use WD40 and/or Fluid Film and see if this prevent this from happening.

Anyhow....on this snowblower vs. plow issue there is only one account I have where a plow would work for push off. It fully admit it would be handy to have a blade of some sort for my Toyota 4x4 for opening up driveway plow berms the city or county leaves in the drives. This is the glaring downfall of snowblowing and where I begin to loose a few bucks especially if it refreezes.

:salute:


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

Neige;850031 said:


> OMG I must be a hack, I would have 15 - 20 drives done in that time how unprofessional. No wait I did it with a blower so I am a professional, oh no wrong thread how unprofessional. Professionally speaking I think its unprofessional to say its unprofessional if you dont professionally clear snow like a professional. :laughing:


When did you first realize you were infected Jean Chretien's double speak?tymusic


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## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

Moved some post out. Thread is done


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