# new to plowing salt?



## pushingsnow (Nov 14, 2011)

ok so im new to plowing this year i have an 05 f250 superduty got it from munciple auction it is 2wd i have a western plow but i need to fix it and get it on my truck so that might not happen this year i got a snowbear plow cheap it only goes up and down dont turn side to side without getting out of the truck i plan to just plow with it straight unless i have to turn it i dont know if i want to put a salt shaker on the truck and rust it out im thinking about a walk behind how would it work put in some comments for me help me message text or call 815 822 1247


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Sorry I don't think you are preperred for plowing this year. Truck will be good as a salt truck only.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

I'd take the truck and sell it for a 4x4, there are guys that say they plow in 2wd with ballast and never put the truck in 4wd I call BS. I'm not saying you can't use a 2wd to plow but what happens when you push just a little further and the front tires drop off the parking lot into the grass:realmad:


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1380780 said:


> I'd take the truck and sell it for a 4x4, there are guys that say they plow in 2wd with ballast and never put the truck in 4wd I call BS. I'm not saying you can't use a 2wd to plow but what happens when you push just a little further and the front tires drop off the parking lot into the grass:realmad:


Hogwash, 2wd plowing works just fine, just ask this guy...


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

You might be OK plowing salt with that rig, but it ain't going to work for snow.


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## Puddle of Oil (Sep 20, 2008)

I have a 4x4 f250 with 1500+ pounds in the back. Most of the time 2wd can handle it fine, but there has been several occasions where I needed a 4x4. Like the previous posters said, get the 4x4 or don't plow at all.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

wizardsr;1380810 said:


> Hogwash, 2wd plowing works just fine, just ask this guy...


I see Fords in your avitar  Don't be so modest you can admit it was you


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

I've plowed in 2WD when I've had an issue with my front end--of course this was years ago when I was running junk, but even with 1000+ lbs of salt sand in the box it sucked. If you have anything that isn't close to level, good luck. I have a few lots with steep entrances that I wouldn't even attempt to plow without 4WD.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

2wd is ok if you have dual rear wheels and you are plowing with other trucks. Roads, or parking lots with a loader or other trucks to pull you out if you get hung up. I wouldn't use it as a primary plow truck though and definitely not for driveways.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

nepatsfan;1380857 said:


> 2wd is ok if you have dual rear wheels
> 
> Are you kidding? It would be horrible worse than a SRW you would have to have a lot of weight in the back just so you could move


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1381283 said:


> nepatsfan;1380857 said:
> 
> 
> > 2wd is ok if you have dual rear wheels
> ...


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1381283 said:


> Are you kidding? It would be horrible worse than a SRW *you would have to have a lot of weight in the back just so you could move*


Think about what you just said.

DRW and a lot of weight, just ponder it for awhile.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1381283 said:


> nepatsfan;1380857 said:
> 
> 
> > 2wd is ok if you have dual rear wheels
> ...


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

nepatsfan;1381563 said:


> NICHOLS LANDSCA;1381283 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you kidding?...Are you trying to say that a single rear wheel truck is better than a dually dump or equivelant with ballast? Have you plowed in both?
> ...


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

dfd9;1381566
I'm thinking they've never really paid attention to all those muni trucks that are out plowing.[/QUOTE said:


> Those have a special disposition from the government making then 4X4 during snowstorms.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

nepatsfan;1381563 said:


> NICHOLS LANDSCA;1381283 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you kidding?...Are you trying to say that a single rear wheel truck is better than a dually dump or equivelant with ballast? Have you plowed in both?
> ...


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

MY point was this:

If you have a 2WD dually pickup (dump body, contractor body, whatever) with or without ballast, it's exerting a given amount of PSI to the drive wheels, no?

Take a 2WD SRW pickup with the SAME weight in the back, and it will exert a higher PSI than the dually.

PSI translates into traction, which is why you put weight in the back in the first place. Higher PSI=more traction. A dually will require more weight than a SRW pickup provided that other variables such as tire width, type, etc. are held constant. It's simple physics. But keep joking, I know it's easier to make fun of things you don't understand.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

OC&D;1381865 said:


> MY point was this:
> 
> If you have a 2WD dually pickup (dump body, contractor body, whatever) with or without ballast, it's exerting a given amount of PSI to the drive wheels, no?
> 
> ...


You don't understand, do you?

A DRW truck can haul more weight than a SRW, so you can get that PSI thingy you're referring to.


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

dfd9;1381888 said:


> You don't understand, do you?
> 
> A DRW truck can haul more weight than a SRW, so you can get that PSI thingy you're referring to.


:laughing:


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

And split the weight over twice as much surface area.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

mnglocker;1381974 said:


> And split the weight over twice as much surface area.


Wrong again.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

dfd9;1382007 said:


> Wrong again.


So tell me how having 4 rear tires Vs. two rear tires isn't halfing the weight applied per tire?

You're math sucks and doesn't work.

Not all DRW trucks have dump bodies with 4k lbs of sand in the back.

Side by side, a SRW F-350 is going to do better in the snow than a DRW F-350 in the snow.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

mnglocker;1382042 said:


> So tell me how having 4 rear tires Vs. two rear tires isn't halfing the weight applied per tire?
> 
> You're math sucks and doesn't work.


How many tires does a truck with DRW have? I'll give you a hint 2+4.

And you say my math sucks?


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## alldayrj (Feb 28, 2010)

dfd9;1382048 said:


> How many tires does a truck with DRW have? I'll give you a hint 2+4.
> 
> And you say my math sucks?


if the truck is 2wd then the front two don't come into play in the traction formula. In fact, I would consider more weight on the front tires of a two wheel drive truck a negative attribute


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

dfd9;1382048 said:


> How many tires does a truck with DRW have? I'll give you a hint 2+4.
> 
> And you say my math sucks?


Is being obtuse your M.O.?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

alldayrj;1382055 said:


> if the truck is 2wd then the front two don't come into play in the traction formula. In fact, I would consider more weight on the front tires of a two wheel drive truck a negative attribute


The solution to improve traction on high torque/HP machines is run a set of duals.

It's amazing how well a 2 wd drw pushes snow when it has a reasonable load in the back.

If it gets icy try chains or studs and a little more weight.Thumbs Up

Duels are wonderful for sanders, so much less Yawl.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

alldayrj;1382055 said:


> if the truck is 2wd then the front two don't come into play in the traction formula. In fact, I would consider more weight on the front tires of a two wheel drive truck a negative attribute


It does for spreading the weight out over 6 tires vs 4.



OC&D;1382061 said:


> Is being obtuse your M.O.?


Merry Christmas!

I have 3 2WD trucks, the rest are 4WD. The 4 wheelers I never plow in 2WD. 2 of my 6 wheelers have 4WD, the one with a flat bed always requires 4WD as well, the one with the spreader only needs 4WD when the back blade is being used. The other 3 don't need it, they have enough weight to make it through.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

"new to plowing salt?"

Who plows salt?


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Banksy;1382112 said:


> "new to plowing salt?"
> 
> Who plows salt?


You've never seen what MNdot does to the roads here then. :laughing:


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

i honestly cannot believe this is a discussion. Anyone who really thinks that a srw truck is better in the snow than drw has not driven both. Apparantly mass highway needs to re-evaluate their equipment too because all the L 8 and 9000's that they run are also rwd. Maybe they should order srw on them. Good luck to everyone plowing with 2wd, I am done with the conversation.

The sky is blue........


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## xjsnake (Dec 9, 2011)

Holy crap, makes me glad I didn't post up a question when I joined a couple weeks ago. OP got one constructive reply and the thread devolved into a bunch of snow starved arguing...


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

nepatsfan;1382243 said:


> i honestly cannot believe this is a discussion. Anyone who really thinks that a srw truck is better in the snow than drw has not driven both. Apparantly mass highway needs to re-evaluate their equipment too because all the L 8 and 9000's that they run are also rwd. Maybe they should order srw on them. Good luck to everyone plowing with 2wd, I am done with the conversation.
> 
> *The sky is blue*........


You sure? I think it is a shade of violet. lol

Good points though.

So let's go that route, how many that think a SRW truck is better in snow than a DRW truck have one or more of each and have used them in the past?



xjsnake;1382398 said:


> Holy crap, makes me glad I didn't post up a question when I joined a couple weeks ago. OP got one constructive reply and the thread devolved into a bunch of snow starved arguing...


That's because the OP asked about plowing salt. Wrong forum. lololol


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## Kwise (Sep 24, 2009)

There is a reason snow tires are narrow.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

Kwise;1382594 said:


> There is a reason snow tires are narrow.


Especially on duallies, too much weight can make them rub.....


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

Kwise;1382594 said:


> There is a reason snow tires are narrow.


Seriously. The tires on a dually are not even close to the width of a srw truck.

Another question. On dry pavement(im asking about dry because people have different opinions with snow)...so on dry pavement which tires will spin easier? The dually or the srw? Im going with srw...my answer is the same in the snow.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

nepatsfan;1382627 said:


> Seriously. The tires on a dually are not even close to the width of a srw truck.
> 
> Another question. On dry pavement(im asking about dry because people have different opinions with snow)...*so on dry pavement which tires will spin easier*? The dually or the srw? Im going with srw...my answer is the same in the snow.


Duals...................


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

cretebaby;1382656 said:


> Duals...................


LOL...ok. this is stupid.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Nevermind LOL


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

dfd9;1382625 said:


> Especially on duallies, too much weight can make them rub.....


Why you should never change tire sizes on a duallie


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

nepatsfan;1382627 said:


> Seriously. The tires on a dually are not even close to the width of a srw truck.
> 
> Another question. On dry pavement(im asking about dry because people have different opinions with snow)...so on dry pavement which tires will spin easier? The dually or the srw? Im going with srw...my answer is the same in the snow.


I thought you were done with this conversation?

Regardless, that's not a valid question in the first place. Dry pavement is not wet pavement, snow covered pavement is not ice covered pavement, pavement is not like mud. The fact that they make different tires for different road and/or surface conditions (i.e. snow tires) illustrates this quite well.

And while I'm at it, let me be perfectly clear. Whether a dually is better or a SRW is better is completely dependent on the final friction coefficient of the entire truck when considering PSI, tire type, etc. But it is UNDENIABLE that in order to achieve the SAME friction with a dually you'll need to use more weight than an SRW.

If you disagree, why not go and get some nice fat, wide, tires for your route this winter, I'm sure you'll do great! Heck, maybe you should consider tubbing that old pickup out so you can really get some wide ones back there!:laughing:


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## Landcare - Mont (Feb 28, 2011)

We only run one pickup truck plowing - it's a SRW 4x4 and only plows in 4WD (travels in 2WD). It doesn't require any rear-end weight to do its job. We run 9-10 International 6-wheelers plowing, 6 of them have 12-foot, angling front plows and 11- or 12-foot side wings. They would probably get better traction if they were single rears (with the narrower tires) but they need to have all their wheels to carry the weight of the salt spreaders. The ones not used for salting are loaded (crushed stone for the ones with dump bodies and concrete blocks for the ones without) with about 5-7 tonnes to give them traction and to help counter the sideways push of the wing. Could be why the DOT's, etc. run with duallies? P.S. The big trucks can still get stuck or not have enough traction depending on the type of snow or how deep the ditch is. :whistling:


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## pushingsnow (Nov 14, 2011)

all of those yellow f250s that the state and county uses are 2wd with hardly any weight in them i will have no trouble plowing with my truck it weighs 7000 pounds and i will have 1000 pounds of salt in the back the ? had nothing to do with the ability of the truck to plow i know it will and have tire chains and winch just in case the ? is will it make sense to use a walk behind thrower for salt since i dont have a salter and am not sure if i want to put one on the truck


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

grandview;1380770 said:


> Sorry I don't think you are preperred for plowing this year. Truck will be good as a salt truck only.


This comment still applies.

I'm really interested in seeing your states 2wd F250 plow trucks. Can you get any pics?


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

WOW I can't believe how people can't get something so simple through their head. Just because you have 4 tires in the back it doesn't give you the same traction as a 4x4. You ACTUALLY have less tractive force than if you only had 2 tires back there. For those who asked, I have plowed with a dually my 96' is and the Freight is. The 96' needs to be in 4wd and the freight needs about 4ton in it or forget it.


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## Turf Commando (Dec 16, 2007)

Thanks Wiz that video can make anyone laugh... That guy even had alot of weight


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## pushingsnow (Nov 14, 2011)

its on my page that is what they use to do city lots


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1380780 said:


> I'd take the truck and sell it for a 4x4, there are guys that say they plow in 2wd with ballast and never put the truck in 4wd I call BS. I'm not saying you can't use a 2wd to plow but what happens when you push just a little further and the front tires drop off the parking lot into the grass:realmad:


well as hard as I tried I couldn't resist. I have ran a f350 2WD (oh nooooo) as a plow truck for the past four seasons. It has an 8' Boss straight with wings on it. I load it with about 3k of sand in case i need traction. I plow my lots just fine. Even plowed in the ice storm we had here last year. Is it scary for the driver? You betcha! But it WILL plow. I would rec. a 4x4 as there is no comparison but it will work. It is best used as a backup truck or I use it on my largest lot because it's close to the shop and it's flat. But I still to this day plow driveways with it. even ones with hills. As long as you have solid tires and weight and a GOOD driver you'll be ok. let the bashing begin!:


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

I run in 4x4 with tires with about 3/32 of tread so I don't need good tires, I wear them out and then get good tires. Tried in 2 wheel last year a few times , driving up hill on ice pushing snow didn't work, 4x4 less to deal with.


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

OC&D;1381865 said:


> MY point was this:
> 
> If you have a 2WD dually pickup (dump body, contractor body, whatever) with or without ballast, it's exerting a given amount of PSI to the drive wheels, no?
> 
> ...


You are correct. The SRW would be better if all variables are the same.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

One thing I think may have been misunderstood here was that I wasn't referring to a dually pickup. I was referring to a 1 ton dump. I have never owned or even driven a dually pickup truck. I am not sure why anyone would put the same amount of weight in a srw pickup as they would in a dually. Why would you? The dump will handle a lot more. Our 1 tons have sanders loaded with 2.5 to 3 yards of material, along with the weight of the dump body and the sander. They are 4wd and wouldn't recommend them in 2wd but they are 100 times better in the snow than the srw pickups when both are in 2wd or for that matter when both are in 4wd. It is what it is though. We will agree to disagree on this one.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

MahonLawnCare;1384524 said:


> well as hard as I tried I couldn't resist. I have ran a f350 2WD (oh nooooo) as a plow truck for the past four seasons. It has an 8' Boss straight with wings on it. I load it with about 3k of sand in case i need traction. I plow my lots just fine. Even plowed in the ice storm we had here last year. Is it scary for the driver? You betcha! But it WILL plow. I would rec. a 4x4 as there is no comparison but it will work. It is best used as a backup truck or I use it on my largest lot because it's close to the shop and it's flat. But I still to this day plow driveways with it. even ones with hills. As long as you have solid tires and weight and a GOOD driver you'll be ok. let the bashing begin!:


Obviously people are arguing just to argue, read the second sentence of my post that you quoted. I never said a 2wd couldn't be used just said 4wd would be better, not going to get into the dually vs SRW


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

Well I should have stated it is a dually dump. And when they go into the grass, we shift into reverse and back out. I get tired of guys saying you can't plow with a 2wd blah blah blah. That's how I learned to plow. 4 speed 2WD. Do the best with what you got.


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## Bigrd1 (Dec 4, 2010)

You can plow in both 2wd and 4wd. As long as there is weight in the back of the 2wd. Its not all about 2WD vs. 4WD or SRW vs. DRW a lot of it is about the ability of the driver!


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

3 pages and still no one got it correct ? lol 

If you were to take the beds off both a SRW and DRW pick up truck the SRW truck would handle the snow much better. It's easier for the SRW to sink down into the snow and make contact with the pavement. This is the reason why you want tall ((( skinny ))) tires on a plow truck. Now, if we put the beds back on these trucks, added some balast, The DRW truck would run circles around the SRW truck. Why ??? Because it has 4 tires in contact with the pavement and not just 2. 

As for why a DRW drive truck tends to do better in the snow even with out ballast ... It's heavier ! You can use this same reasoning for why state trucks / high way plows are usually only 2 wd.They have enough weight to push the 4 rear tires down to the pavement.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

You people argue over some of the stupidest things!
Sheesh
Some people's kids!


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## jklawn&Plow (Jan 8, 2011)

It would be interesting to see which truck SRW vs DRW had more traction on ice or snow . When you look at lbs per square inch on the ground being half for DRW and the coefficient of friction being doubled due to the extra two tires there are tradeoffs that work against each other. Scientific testing would resolve the debate. Need to control quite a few variables including Tire Brand, age , wear, surface, inclination, weight, temperature, if the plow is down the pressure against it, speed of acceleration seems like the Dually would have more traction with less weight even but who knows.


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## superdog1 (Oct 13, 2011)

You are ALL wrong! The best setup is a 3 wheeled tricycle turned backwards with all the power going to the single rear wheel! I have a setup like this with a 20ft plow on it and NOTHING can stop it! The 2 front tires are only 14" high and the rear drive wheel is 4' tall and 3" wide. My 5yr old son gets a little tired once and awhile (especially after a long storm), but then my 4 year old daughter takes over! They both can go through quite a bit of Monster, Red Bull and candy bars, but in the end, nothing beats it!, Lol :laughing:


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

nekos;1388514 said:


> 3 pages and still no one got it correct ? lol
> 
> If you were to take the beds off both a SRW and DRW pick up truck the SRW truck would handle the snow much better. It's easier for the SRW to sink down into the snow and make contact with the pavement. This is the reason why you want tall ((( skinny ))) tires on a plow truck. Now, if we put the beds back on these trucks, added some balast, The DRW truck would run circles around the SRW truck. Why ??? Because it has 4 tires in contact with the pavement and not just 2.


This is the point I've been arguing the entire time if you read my posts.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

OC&D;1389504 said:


> This is the point I've been arguing the entire time if you read my posts.


Haha...yeah ok! You said take the beds off both and the srw is better. Yeah I read that and it's real practical too. Why would it even be an argument. I simply said that a dually 1 ton dump is better than a srw truck and a lot of you blasted me. Now it's take the bodies off both and the srw is better......why on earth would you do that and what does it prove? The weight of the dump alone is enought to make it better than the srw truck. Adding stupid variables to try to bash someone else is not exactly real world. Take the tranny out of the srw truck and it wont plow as well as a drw with a tranny and bald tires.

You need a back up alarm on your posts.


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

nepatsfan;1389817 said:


> Haha...yeah ok! You said take the beds off both and the srw is better. Yeah I read that and it's real practical too. Why would it even be an argument. I simply said that a dually 1 ton dump is better than a srw truck and a lot of you blasted me. Now it's take the bodies off both and the srw is better......why on earth would you do that and what does it prove? The weight of the dump alone is enought to make it better than the srw truck. Adding stupid variables to try to bash someone else is not exactly real world. Take the tranny out of the srw truck and it wont plow as well as a drw with a tranny and bald tires.
> 
> You need a back up alarm on your posts.


Please quote the post where I said "take the beds off both....".

You actually think that an empty contractor dump on a dually is enough added weight to offset the increased tire footprint? I've owned both, and it's not the case in my reality.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

OC&D;1389504 said:


> This is the point I've been arguing the entire time if you read my posts.





nekos;1388514 said:


> 3 pages and still no one got it correct ? lol
> 
> If you were to take the beds off both a SRW and DRW pick up truck the SRW truck would handle the snow much better. It's easier for the SRW to sink down into the snow and make contact with the pavement. This is the reason why you want tall ((( skinny ))) tires on a plow truck. Now, if we put the beds back on these trucks, added some balast, The DRW truck would run circles around the SRW truck. Why ??? Because it has 4 tires in contact with the pavement and not just 2.
> 
> As for why a DRW drive truck tends to do better in the snow even with out ballast ... It's heavier ! You can use this same reasoning for why state trucks / high way plows are usually only 2 wd.They have enough weight to push the 4 rear tires down to the pavement.


Here you go.....I was being sarcastic. You didn't say that, but you said you did. refer to the above.



OC&D;1391137 said:


> Please quote the post where I said "take the beds off both....".
> 
> You actually think that an empty contractor dump on a dually is enough added weight to offset the increased tire footprint? I've owned both, and it's not the case in my reality.


I own currently own several of both and that is reality. The tires on a dually are also a lot skinnier than on a srw truck. Diesel vs. diesel srw vs. dually dump.....advantage dump for plowing.


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

nepatsfan;1391226 said:


> advantage dump for plowing.


Until you have to back up. LOL

I have both, the SRW trucks push snow good, the dually with some weight pushes like a freight train, but it's not as versatile on some properties like apartments and driveways. Each has it's place, there's no right or wrong answer in this debate.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

wizardsr;1391236 said:


> Until you have to back up. LOL
> 
> I have both, the SRW trucks push snow good, the dually with some weight pushes like a freight train, but it's not as versatile on some properties like apartments and driveways. Each has it's place, there's no right or wrong answer in this debate.


I agree 100%. Dumps are much worse for visibility. We were talking about traction in 2wd. As far as overall plowing and both 4wd....I prefer a pickup, that is what I plow in. I am installing back up cameras in two dumps for that reason. Visibility is tough especially with sanders in the back.


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