# Help with dodge 4x4 please



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Wasn't sure if I should list this here or in the dodge forum but here goes....

My 04 1500 is eating front end parts. I've replaced everything up front- ball joints, control arms, cv axles and the intermediate axles. The truck has 97k on it so I know some of it is just maintainence but breaking both the cv axles and the intermediates is troubling to me. I'm not hard on my equip and I don't plow hardly any commercial accts. I'm running a fisher 7 1/2' blade. And before anyone says upgrade to a 3/4, 1 ton, 550, triaxle or whatever, that's the idea for next year. I'm just concerned about this problem as I plan on keeping this truck as my daily driver.


----------



## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

It's just the light-weight construction of the trucks nowadays. While my wife was driving my '07 half-ton, a front bearing went bad (sealed and not greasable by the way), it caused me about 1,500 in front end damage. Got so hot it busted a tire, had to replace an axle and some other stuff that I forget now. I had to replace front shocks at about 50K because they were leaking all over my driveway as well. Overall, not a lot of complaints about this truck specifically, I just have to remind myself that this is the way the entire half-ton industry is heading due to EPA and MPG. I also took it in to have the front end aligned about three months ago, and they told me that they couldn't do it until I replaced the inner and outer tie rods due to them being so worn that a front end alignment would be useless unless I replaced them.


----------



## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

A half ton is not a real truck. Only put your plow in when needed, don't drive around with it on.


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

clark lawn;1573760 said:


> A half ton is not a real truck. Only put your plow in when needed, don't drive around with it on.


Gee thanks, never would've thought of that :Thumbs Up:


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Just did the ball joints, front hubs and hub actuators on my F-150 today. Going in for an alignment tomorrow. I'm hoping to not hear that I need to do the tie-rod ends.

Went with Timken front hubs, MOOG problem solver ball joints, and Dorman Actuators. The truck has 150k on it so it should last the life of the truck.

Whenever possible on your dodge, replace parts with grease-able higher end parts. It might help in the long run.


............


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

White Gardens;1573827 said:


> Just did the ball joints, front hubs and hub actuators on my F-150 today. Going in for an alignment tomorrow. I'm hoping to not hear that I need to do the tie-rod ends.
> 
> Went with Timken front hubs, MOOG problem solver ball joints, and Dorman Actuators. The truck has 150k on it so it should last the life of the truck.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's what I did with the hubs and ball joints. The axles came directly from the local dodge dealer do they should be ok, well, I hope they are.


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

peteo1;1573921 said:


> Yes, that's what I did with the hubs and ball joints. The axles came directly from the local dodge dealer do they should be ok, well, I hope they are.


Ya, I doubt there is an aftermarket axle you could get without spending an arm and a leg.

Is it a solid axle or are you talking the CV shafts?

.................


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

No. Unfortunately its cv shafts. As a matter of fact I lost my 4wd yesterday. Put it up on the lift and got into it today. Broke a bearing in the front diff and ruined the ring gear. Got a new one coming tomorrow. Fortunately dodge parts are cheap. I think this trucks career has come to an end. I worked a deal with my friend I sub for to where I'll finish the season in one of his trucks as an hourly employee which is ok by me. On the bright side, I guess I have all year to find another truck to plow with.


----------



## Trapper-Randy (Nov 6, 2012)

I have a 2000 Dodge 1500 Quad cab and it has never plowed snow, but I am always changing axle joints, ball Joints ,wheel bearings and sway bar links. I think when this truck gets retired that will be the end of my dodge experience!


T-R


----------



## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

I've upgraded my front ball joints and such...much like a lot of others. However, I went with the free-spin front hub kit this last time. From now on, replacing front wheel hubs can be done in one afternoon and will cost buttloads less.

I myself have never really had any major problems with my 2500 and it just passed 300k miles.


----------



## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

Do yourself a favor and get at least a 3/4 ton or bigger. The 1/2 ton's are just not built heavy duty enough to plow with. You just wear out parts and break parts. Brakes wear out quicker too. I went to a 3/4 ton, never broke a drive train part. Just normal wear and tear stuff. Got 30,000 between front end rebuilds and axle U-Joints....


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

MickiRig1;1577799 said:


> Do yourself a favor and get at least a 3/4 ton or bigger. The 1/2 ton's are just not built heavy duty enough to plow with. You just wear out parts and break parts. Brakes wear out quicker too. I went to a 3/4 ton, never broke a drive train part. Just normal wear and tear stuff. Got 30,000 between front end rebuilds and axle U-Joints....


That's the plan. I'm pretty good right now since my truck is worth a lot more than what I owe. Looks like I'll be shopping come spring time.


----------



## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

People will be unloading trucks since it's been such a weak snow season. They don't need a 4X4 truck when we get no snow.


----------



## ceptorman (Nov 30, 2011)

peteo1;1573921 said:


> Yes, that's what I did with the hubs and ball joints. The axles came directly from the local dodge dealer do they should be ok, well, I hope they are.





MickiRig1;1579765 said:


> People will be unloading trucks since it's been such a weak snow season. They don't need a 4X4 truck when we get no snow.


Yes, you could probably get a truck with a plow already on for a stealThumbs Up


----------



## Trapper-Randy (Nov 6, 2012)

My recommendation is No Dodges!!!


T-R


----------



## condo plow (Nov 6, 2012)

White Gardens;1573827 said:


> Just did the ball joints, front hubs and hub actuators on my F-150 today. Going in for an alignment tomorrow. I'm hoping to not hear that I need to do the tie-rod ends.
> 
> Went with Timken front hubs, MOOG problem solver ball joints, and Dorman Actuators. The truck has 150k on it so it should last the life of the truck.
> 
> ...


Don't replace with 1500 parts replace with 2500 v10 parts they will fit


----------



## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

peteo1;1574418 said:


> No. Unfortunately its cv shafts. As a matter of fact I lost my 4wd yesterday. Put it up on the lift and got into it today. Broke a bearing in the front diff and ruined the ring gear. Got a new one coming tomorrow. Fortunately dodge parts are cheap. I think this trucks career has come to an end. I worked a deal with my friend I sub for to where I'll finish the season in one of his trucks as an hourly employee which is ok by me. On the bright side, I guess I have all year to find another truck to plow with.


The only half ton truck I would ever plow with was my old solid axel 85 Dodge W100! That truck was indestructable! I had less front end problems with that truck than my friend had with his 3/4 ton Chevy. Man I miss that old truck.


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

This is the first dodge I've ever owned. I'm pretty sure it will be my last. I've never had this many problems with any of the Chevys I've had combined. That being said I may be tempted into an f250. I figure I've got till around September to decide.


----------



## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

Unfortionately all the new 3/4 ton trucks today have independant front-ends, making them more high maintenance under plowing conditions. There's no equal in the world to having a bomb-proof Dana 60 front-end like the first and second gen. Dodge 2500's had! That's what I love about my 99 Dodge 2500! Definately go with the aftemarket Moog front-end parts that have grease zurks built in. They will outlast any oem replacement parts.


----------



## cpmi (Dec 18, 2010)

Snow Commandor;1582798 said:


> Unfortionately all the new 3/4 ton trucks today have independant front-ends, making them more high maintenance under plowing conditions. There's no equal in the world to having a bomb-proof Dana 60 front-end like the first and second gen. Dodge 2500's had! That's what I love about my 99 Dodge 2500! Definately go with the aftemarket Moog front-end parts that have grease zurks built in. They will outlast any oem replacement parts.


What year did the dodge 2500 go to independent front suspension?


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Idk. That's news to me as well. My brother has an 08 and that's a solid front axle. I know a guy who has a 10 and that's solid too.


----------



## 2006Sierra1500 (Dec 28, 2011)

The new ones are solid as well. What planet is this guy on?


----------



## Snow Commandor (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm not sure but the half tons went over to independent many moons ago. The 3/4 tons changed some time around 2005 give or take 2 years. They may have better overal ride quality but they sure don't hold up to the riggers of plowing like a Dana 60 solid axel truck! Even Ford F250s have always had independent front ends. I once looked @ a used F250 that a local shop was selling and is was missing the passenger side dog-bone front axel.


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Snow Commandor;1583717 said:


> I'm not sure but the half tons went over to independent many moons ago. The 3/4 tons changed some time around 2005 give or take 2 years. They may have better overal ride quality but they sure don't hold up to the riggers of plowing like a Dana 60 solid axel truck! Even Ford F250s have always had independent front ends. I once looked @ a used F250 that a local shop was selling and is was missing the passenger side dog-bone front axel.


Hmmm, in a word...... NO!


----------



## cpmi (Dec 18, 2010)

Snow Commandor;1583717 said:


> I'm not sure but the half tons went over to independent many moons ago. The 3/4 tons changed some time around 2005 give or take 2 years. They may have better overal ride quality but they sure don't hold up to the riggers of plowing like a Dana 60 solid axel truck! Even Ford F250s have always had independent front ends. I once looked @ a used F250 that a local shop was selling and is was missing the passenger side dog-bone front axel.


Was just wondering if I owned the oddball dodge 2500 with solid front axles-have a 2005,2006&2010 all with solid front axles


----------



## Green Grass (Dec 5, 2006)

cpmi;1583577 said:


> What year did the dodge 2500 go to independent front suspension?


only in a 2wd 2500 can you get independent


----------



## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

Trapper-Randy;1582484 said:


> My recommendation is No Dodges!!!
> 
> T-R


What a FAIL of a response that was.

My Dodge runs circles around others.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

peteo1;1574418 said:


> No. Unfortunately its cv shafts. As a matter of fact I lost my 4wd yesterday. Put it up on the lift and got into it today. Broke a bearing in the front diff and ruined the ring gear. Got a new one coming tomorrow. Fortunately dodge parts are cheap. I think this trucks career has come to an end. I worked a deal with my friend I sub for to where I'll finish the season in one of his trucks as an hourly employee which is ok by me. On the bright side, I guess I have all year to find another truck to plow with.


I lost my 4x4 early in the season on my 04 ram. splines from the intermediate and cv axels jsut kidna stripped for some reason.

I just put 800 lbs in the back and kept plowing. will get it fixed when i get another check or two


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

MickiRig1;1577799 said:


> Do yourself a favor and get at least a 3/4 ton or bigger. The 1/2 ton's are just not built heavy duty enough to plow with. You just wear out parts and break parts. Brakes wear out quicker too. I went to a 3/4 ton, never broke a drive train part. Just normal wear and tear stuff. Got 30,000 between front end rebuilds and axle U-Joints....


I will NEVER get a 3/4 ton truck. its a complete waist of money. you get about 600 lbs extra payload which is nothing. whereas with a 1 ton you get around 2000 to 3000 lbs more payload.

a 3/4 is just a glorified half ton and not worth the money. 1 ton gives you so much more bang for your buck.

an extra 600 lbs will not get you much more when it comes to actually doing something.


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

After that post.....





Wait for it......


..................


----------



## 2006Sierra1500 (Dec 28, 2011)

I can see this one going south...my 3/4 ton can do so much more than the 1500s..


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

if its a dodge it can only do 600 lbs more. maybe the chevy 3/4 trucks are better, but for dodge the gvwr is only 600 lbs more. to me and others if spoken with 600 lbs just isnt worth the larger cost. not when you can spend a little more and get a couple tons more with a 1 ton truck.


----------



## GSS LLC (Jul 7, 2012)

I hate threads like this. A bunch of trolls spouting b.s. info to misguide others.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

GSS LLC;1588893 said:


> I hate threads like this. A bunch of trolls spouting b.s. info to misguide others.


payload of a 1500 dodge is 1300. payload of a 2500 dodge is 1900. not b.s. but published legal specifications.


----------



## Midwest Plower (Dec 21, 2008)

Man, I love the 1/2 ton stories on here I have plowed snow for over twenty years and until this year have ran 1/2 ton trucks mostly FORD's. Never had much trouble with any of my trucks other than normal wear & tear.


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

Hmmmm ???? …. Uhh maybe on paper birdseed but actually ALL half tons are just a glorified car these days. Like in the old days the family that liked to go camping with a trailer behind, would by the big Chevy or Ford or Chrysler station wagon. Those things don't exist anymore today …. so now they have to buy a min of a half ton that has a frame at least.

A 3/4 ton 4x4 of today is a detuned 1-ton usually the same tires, rims, brakes, frame (depth & thickness) and axles, until u get to a drw which I found out about when doing the calipers on mine, they have slightly less spring cap in the rear due to the lack of the overload spring pack, and maybe a little less coil capacity in the front depending on the gvwr when order'd (like diesel or gas) but otherwise it they're the same trucks …. 

Now I know why I was invited to come over here to participate …. this is gonna be interesting to say the least !


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

BladeBlowBucket;1588973 said:


> Hmmmm ???? …. Uhh maybe on paper birdseed but actually ALL half tons are just a glorified car these days. Like in the old days the family that liked to go camping with a trailer behind, would by the big Chevy or Ford or Chrysler station wagon. Those things don't exist anymore today …. so now they have to buy a min of a half ton that has a frame at least.
> 
> A 3/4 ton 4x4 of today is a detuned 1-ton usually the same tires, rims, brakes, frame (depth & thickness) and axles, until u get to a drw which I found out about when doing the calipers on mine, they have slightly less spring cap in the rear due to the lack of the overload spring pack, and maybe a little less coil capacity in the front depending on the gvwr when order'd (like diesel or gas) but otherwise it they're the same trucks ….
> 
> Now I know why I was invited to come over here to participate …. this is gonna be interesting to say the least !


I cannot really say i disagree. when i started to really use my truck i found it quite disappointing. but the realization that 3/4 are dumb came when i looked at upgrading my truck for a salt spreader. i could upgrade the suspension. but i could not upgrade the axle. this is when i looked at the spechs for a 3/4 ton.

this was when i realize that, according to the gvwr at least. a 3/4 ton cannot carry a salt spreader no more than a half ton can. in either case. you are well over the gvwr.


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Here's the way I look at it.

1/2 tons are for light duty work, including light payloads and light pulling.
3/4 tons are for heavier duty work that includes pulling large loads.
1 tons are for not only pulling, but some good payload.
1 ton dually's get you both payload and pulling
1 ton Cab and Chassis are for max payload and pulling at the same time.


...........


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

White Gardens;1588837 said:


> After that post.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pass some over here please


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

birddseedd;1588989 said:


> …. i could upgrade the suspension. but i could not upgrade the axle. this is when i looked at the spechs for a 3/4 ton.
> 
> this was when i realize that, according to the gvwr at least. a 3/4 ton cannot carry a salt spreader no more than a half ton can. in either case. you are well over the gvwr.


Well, I guess your DMV laws must be way different than anywhere else !

…. Because if you did do your home work, and not off of brochures you'd find that the rear axles on most all of the 3/4 tons are the same rear banjo housing with Maybe a different gear ratio than a 1 ton single rear wheel p/u …. if a guy was to go and buy a brand new p/u for salting and carrying heavier loads only, then by all means buy the 1 ton …. but if a guy found a great deal on a 3/4 ton and alls he had to do was slap a set of air bags under it to carry more weight, only twice a week average, without looking like a dog humping a foot ball then that's the way to go …. cause as I stated before "as long as the tires, rims ect. are not overloaded" you CAN up your gvw on a p/u, you will maybe have to pay more insurance or even have the truck MVI'd to do it ...But it can be done.
Those TV commercials running on the boob tube of the GMC truck pulling up to #23,000 is a bunch of BS …. unless you know the law …. when most people buy a dually p/u to do just that they are not told from the dealers that they have to up their licence rating from the default numbers, have the truck inspected annually, have to run a log book, have to cross at weigh stations, cause your getting into commercial motor vehicle weights and regulations

But anyways that's going way into left field …. the point is a 3/4 ton p/u is NOT just a glorified 1/2 ton as you quoted earlier ! …. A 1/2 ton is a glorified HD car with a box that u buy u'r wife to go get groceries Period. ….

BTW petro1 pass me the jug of Beer …. its my turn to watch while u guys entertain now …..LOL


----------



## Trapper-Randy (Nov 6, 2012)

Laszlo Almasi;1585740 said:


> What a FAIL of a response that was.
> 
> My Dodge runs circles around others.


Sorry for giving an opinion that you dont agree with!!! 
Just my opinion from my experience!!

T-R


----------



## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

Trapper-Randy;1589227 said:


> Sorry for giving an opinion that you dont agree with!!!
> Just my opinion from my experience!!
> 
> T-R


LOL...no worries. My first truck was a Chevy...that's why I now have a Ram. Granted it was merely a 1500 but it had tranny and rear end failures that left me stranded several times.

And also...I, like numerous others, feel a 1500 is merely a large vehicle with an uncovered trunk for running errands around town and not for real work. They might be able to get it done (barely) but it'll get worn out much quicker. My dad agrees too now after we pulled identical loads with his 2007 Chevy 4x4 1500 then my 2001 Ram 4x4. He actually turned around to see if we actually had the load.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

BladeBlowBucket;1589219 said:


> Well, I guess your DMV laws must be way different than anywhere else !
> 
> …. Because if you did do your home work, and not off of brochures you'd find that the rear axles on most all of the 3/4 tons are the same rear banjo housing with Maybe a different gear ratio than a 1 ton single rear wheel p/u …. if a guy was to go and buy a brand new p/u for salting and carrying heavier loads only, then by all means buy the 1 ton …. but if a guy found a great deal on a 3/4 ton and alls he had to do was slap a set of air bags under it to carry more weight, only twice a week average, without looking like a dog humping a foot ball then that's the way to go …. cause as I stated before "as long as the tires, rims ect. are not overloaded" you CAN up your gvw on a p/u, you will maybe have to pay more insurance or even have the truck MVI'd to do it ...But it can be done.
> Those TV commercials running on the boob tube of the GMC truck pulling up to #23,000 is a bunch of BS …. unless you know the law …. when most people buy a dually p/u to do just that they are not told from the dealers that they have to up their licence rating from the default numbers, have the truck inspected annually, have to run a log book, have to cross at weigh stations, cause your getting into commercial motor vehicle weights and regulations
> ...


as far as a 1500 truck being a glorified car, that is a bit of a stretch. thicker frame (most cars dont actaully have a frame) larger brakes, larger suspension components. you will never even attempt doing with a car what a half ton can do. the car would simply snap in half. now something like an s10 or sanoma maybe. when i had that i couldnt even get up to speed on the high way when my small trailer tailgate was up. empty trailer.

but as far as 3/4 ton trucks. can it do what 1 ton trucks can do? dodges have the same frame i know that. and upgrading the suspension would be easy. i have not looked into the capabilitity of the rear end. it is possible it is the same. but this i am sure of. no matter what you do to upgrade the truck. air bags. new springs, anything. the gvwr on the inside of your door is still what it was from factory. and IF you get stopped by the state and weighed, what upgrades and what your truck is physicality capable of is irrelevant. if you weigh more than the sticker inside the door. you get hefty fines.


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

birddseedd;1589419 said:


> as far as a 1500 truck being a glorified car, that is a bit of a stretch. thicker frame (most cars dont actaully have a frame) larger brakes, larger suspension components. you will never even attempt doing with a car what a half ton can do. the car would simply snap in half. now something like an s10 or sanoma maybe. when i had that i couldnt even get up to speed on the high way when my small trailer tailgate was up. empty trailer.
> 
> but as far as 3/4 ton trucks. can it do what 1 ton trucks can do? dodges have the same frame i know that. and upgrading the suspension would be easy. i have not looked into the capabilitity of the rear end. it is possible it is the same. but this i am sure of. no matter what you do to upgrade the truck. air bags. new springs, anything. the gvwr on the inside of your door is still what it was from factory. and IF you get stopped by the state and weighed, what upgrades and what your truck is physicality capable of is irrelevant. if you weigh more than the sticker inside the door. you get hefty fines.


The difference between a 3/4 and a 1 ton is basically a few leafs in the rear, more or less. As far as upgrading your suspension goes, as stated earlier, you may have to pay more for your registration, plates, insurance, etc so you can avoid those hefty fines.


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

peteo1;1589478 said:


> The difference between a 3/4 and a 1 ton is basically a few leafs in the rear, more or less. As far as upgrading your suspension goes, as stated earlier, you may have to pay more for your registration, plates, insurance, etc so you can avoid those hefty fines.


"Exactly" …. Thumbs Up

birddseedd ! … Again do your home work first !! …. the 1/2 ton is a car with a frame "That's It" …. not a stretch …. and if you'd done u'r home work you'd also know cars haven't used a full frame in decades :laughing:


----------



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

BladeBlowBucket;1589595 said:


> the 1/2 ton is a car with a frame "That's It" …. not a stretch


This is one statement in this thread that I partially disagree with.

An F-150 or 1500 can do more work than a car and can handle the abuse better.

But, on the flipside, vehicle makers have made the F-150 and 1500's with more of a car feel to cater to the weekend warriors. Thus my statement that an F-150 and 1500's are built for light duty work.

My father had an 87' Nissan, 4 cylinder, 5 speed manual 4wd truck when I was growing up. It was his farm vehicle and did more work than I would have ever imagined Drove the thing over 200,000 miles and finally got rid of it in the late 90's. My S-10 that I started out with, with a 4.3 did way more work than a car and when well past 200,000 miles. These two vehicles did plenty of work without breaking.

The only thing you need to realize is it's limitations and not over-work the vehicle in question. That's why they make different levels of trucks to take the abuse that your going to put at it at any one time.

.........


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

BladeBlowBucket;1589595 said:


> "Exactly" …. Thumbs Up
> 
> birddseedd ! … Again do your home work first !! …. the 1/2 ton is a car with a frame "That's It" …. not a stretch …. and if you'd done u'r home work you'd also know cars haven't used a full frame in decades :laughing:


if you are talking about a sanoma or s10. something small like that then yes. but my half ton has a 5.7 hemi with a payload of 1300 and can tow 13 thousand lbs. if i tried that with my car the car would sit still untill the engine or trany blew. there is no comparison. to say so is jsut perposterous


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

BladeBlowBucket;1589219 said:


> Well, I guess your DMV laws must be way different than anywhere else !
> 
> …. Because if you did do your home work, and not off of brochures you'd find that the rear axles on most all of the 3/4 tons are the same rear banjo housing with Maybe a different gear ratio than a 1 ton single rear wheel p/u …. if a guy was to go and buy a brand new p/u for salting and carrying heavier loads only, then by all means buy the 1 ton …. but if a guy found a great deal on a 3/4 ton and alls he had to do was slap a set of air bags under it to carry more weight, only twice a week average, without looking like a dog humping a foot ball then that's the way to go …. cause as I stated before "as long as the tires, rims ect. are not overloaded" *you CAN up your gvw on a p/u*, you will maybe have to pay more insurance or even have the truck MVI'd to do it ...But it can be done.
> Those TV commercials running on the boob tube of the GMC truck pulling up to #23,000 is a bunch of BS …. unless you know the law …. when most people buy a dually p/u to do just that they are not told from the dealers that they have to up their licence rating from the default numbers, have the truck inspected annually, have to run a log book, have to cross at weigh stations, cause your getting into commercial motor vehicle weights and regulations
> ...


This is simply untrue. according to US law. no matter what you do to your truck. you can never get a new rating sticker, and you CANNOT up your gvwr. if you buy the airbags that go on semi's you will still have the same gvwr. and when a cop weighs your truck, and you are over the weight on the sticker. you get fined. upgrades to the truck are irrelevant. the factory set gvwr is the maximum the truck will ever be able to *legally*carry.

that said, the dodge has the same frame from 2500 to 3500. upgrades perhaps might make it so you can do it safely. but not legally.


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

No way you're towing 13,000 with that truck safely. I've got the same truck and I put my skid steer trailer behind it to move it once. Before the jacks even got off the ground it looked like the rear fenders were about to rub the tires & my trailer + skid weighs around 14k.


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

White Gardens;1589650 said:


> This is one statement in this thread that I partially disagree with.
> 
> An F-150 or 1500 can do more work than a car and can handle the abuse better.
> 
> But, on the flipside, vehicle makers have made the F-150 and 1500's with more of a car feel to cater to the weekend warriors. Thus my statement that an F-150 and 1500's are built for light duty work..........


I was refering to the cars of past, remember the big boats, Fords LTD Stationwagon 460 and a C6 or a Chrysler Newyorker and a 440 magnum w/727 or the Olds Vista cruiser with the 442 and the turbo 400 tranny …. those things had power a frame to bolt an equilizer hitch to ect., but absolutely no carrying capacity …. not the cars of today hence the crew cab 1/2 ton with leather, air, full frame, coil springs over a swing arm suspension 5 or 6 stud hubs and no carrying capacity



peteo1;1590485 said:


> No way you're towing 13,000 with that truck safely. I've got the same truck and I put my skid steer trailer behind it to move it once. Before the jacks even got off the ground it looked like the rear fenders were about to rub the tires & my trailer + skid weighs around 14k.


I'll agree with you on that one petro1, I think it's more of a Legally than of safely getting into the gcvwr laws, but with a proper class 3 hitch it might be able to do it as long as the tires are not overloaded …. hmmmm ?? …. P-rated tires you're not going far :laughing:

If you're looking at plowing with u'r daily driver a proper set-up 3/4 ton will be fine, and if you decide that you wanna put a salter in the back and it has a doggy appearance to it slap some ride-rites under the back so it don't ride like a brick s**t house when your not working, LT tires and 8-stud hubs from factory, waddya think  Hmmmm???

The original thread here was about What ??? towing ???  Not !! …….

Snow Commander, Midwest Plower … I'll agree with you both as well the old 1/2 tons of past years were a way tougher truck than todays …… When I started commercial plowing that's what I started out with 30+ yrs ago, it was a full sized '80 Bronco, big-block done -up 400 and a 4spd, beefed up 3/4 ton moog cargo coils in front and 3/4 ton 2wd leafs in the back … made alot of coin with it back then.

How dumb is stupid ???


----------



## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

peteo1;1590485 said:


> No way you're towing 13,000 with that truck safely. I've got the same truck and I put my skid steer trailer behind it to move it once. Before the jacks even got off the ground it looked like the rear fenders were about to rub the tires & my trailer + skid weighs around 14k.


He was probably talking about the advertised "tow rating" which doesn't even reflect the official tow rating as delivered, let alone a safe weight. Overstated tow ratings were bad enough before the tow rating marketing arms race...

Regardless of tow ratings, and regardless of weight of the rig, it sounds like your experience was a matter of excessive tongue weight.


----------



## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

*1500 vs 2500*

I have a 96 1500 has a full axel thats the differance i just bought a 98 2500 v10

a much better truck oh and it not as bad on fuel as u might think also use good parts like moog or napa and stay away from cheap wheel bearings only use timken im also a mechanic


----------



## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

*quick fix*

take the axel apart get some black pipe slide it over to make sure it fits if it does drill a few holes in different locations the reinstall the pipe weld the pipe to the axle it will be thicker and stronger


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

peteo1;1590485 said:


> No way you're towing 13,000 with that truck safely. I've got the same truck and I put my skid steer trailer behind it to move it once. Before the jacks even got off the ground it looked like the rear fenders were about to rub the tires & my trailer + skid weighs around 14k.


You had too much tongue weight. put more weight on the trailer less on the tongue.

an 04 dodge ram 1500 is rated to pull 13000 lbs. not haul, but pull. keep in mind this INCLUDES the weight of the truck.


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

theholycow;1590590 said:


> ... it sounds like your experience was a matter of excessive tongue weight.


"Really" ??? …. or was it called loading the tongue to the proper weight % of the towed trailer and a 1/2 ton couldn't handle it ???
Hey petro1 wouldn't that be exciting take tongue weight off so the 1/2 ton doesn't look like a dog humping a football, everything looks level, yup, And now how do we stop with out skidding the rear wheels …. What ever !

Wait For It ! ……. here it comes ! ………. can you here it ? ……. I can ! …. "But that's what Trailer Brakes are For" ……. until they DON'T ! … but we all know that never happens !


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

I know a thing or two about trailers and proper loading techniques. Yeah there was too much tongue weight.....for a HALF TON!!! Pulls just fine with our 3/4 or even a 1 ton. I don't care what they rate trucks for, there's what it can do and what its meant to do. Two completely different things. Dodge also says my hemi gets 14-16 mpg in the city however I've never cracked 11. I agree with you, Blade, half tons just aren't built like they used to be. Hell, my old 78 half ton was about what they would call a 3/4 HD nowadays. Trucks now are a joke. $50k for a new truck and you can hardly get it to do as advertised.


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

peteo1;1591080 said:


> I know a thing or two about trailers and proper loading techniques. Yeah there was too much tongue weight.....for a HALF TON!!! Pulls just fine with our 3/4 or even a 1 ton. I don't care what they rate trucks for, there's what it can do and what its meant to do ……. I agree with you, Blade, half tons just aren't built like they used to be. Hell, my old 78 half ton was about what they would call a 3/4 HD nowadays….


Yah !! No Kidding !! … I mean don't get me wrong, but everything has it's place.. I was looking for a 1/2 ton 4x4 last spring for the wife, I wound up getting a steal of a deal on a Lincoln Navigator ! ……. What a SWEET ride that turned out to be, no springs, full air-ride suspension, so what is it ?, a 1/2 ton with a heated canopy, she absolutely LOVES it …….
gas milage is a little harder, but not alot ... it's paid for, cheaper than buying a new one with $700 a mth payments, which you still gotta put gas into ….
What i'd like to get (when we can afford it) is the new multi-fire Hemi 1/2 ton quad-cab full load …. another one that falls into the glorified car category but that's why I still own the dually …. our nearest Costco is 200km's away … LOL … we make a good day of it, go shopping in the big centre, go for din-din, and head home …. half dozen times a year.

I too tow heavy, I had been using a #14,000 s/r tandem gooseneck, I was running at 100% all the time with the Bcat and attachments … it ate tires to no end, the brakes absolutely sucked even with brand new complete backing plates and drums like I said before "until they quit"…pulled this same configuration with a '92 3/4 ton supercab 4x4 for 10yrs, it was never over the tires gvw rating ever, but it got tired and then came the dually…. last year I upgraded to a #24,000 drw tandem gooseneck, what a difference HUGE Brakes and no more tire issues, but that came with a penalty price too, now my gcvw is #30,500 loaded "so" up went my license & insurance, annual inspections, log books "BUT" i'm Legal no tires or axles are over loaded.


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Yep everything has its price and pita value! Come springtime this truck will be for sale. I'll make you nice deal if you are interested.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

stop bening so melo dramatic..... we have no idea how much the trailer weighed so theres no way to even know if it was over loaded. according to the manufacturer you can pull 7800 lbs minus driver. so 7600. if your trailer weighs 3200 you can have a total of 4400 of cargo. that would be easily manageable on the trailer to keep the tongue light (1300) lbs.

chances are you might have been pulling more than 7600 lbs and having it properly distributed added too much tongue weight.

again. is speculation as we dont know what was being hauled.


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

birddseedd;1591479 said:


> stop bening so melo dramatic..... we have no idea how much the trailer weighed so theres no way to even know if it was over loaded. according to the manufacturer you can pull 7800 lbs minus driver. so 7600…..


"But, Then WHO or WHAT ???? would drive the truck" ...:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

peteo1;1590485 said:


> No way you're towing 13,000 with that truck safely. I've got the same truck and I put my skid steer trailer behind it to move it once. Before the jacks even got off the ground it looked like the rear fenders were about to rub the tires & *my trailer + skid weighs around 14k*.


if i read this correctly, you were pulling 14k. the 13k (or 14 for a different model, i think different gearing) is wit the truck. as stated in another post. you were in fact WAY over loaded if you were using a half ton. overloaded by at least 2 full ton of weight. this is very harsh on that truck.


----------



## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Yep. I knew it would be but since I was only at the shop I wasn't concerned. I wasn't going off the lot so no harm no foul.


----------



## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

As fervent an advocate I am of trailering (and general loading, and general road) safety, I see nothing wrong with whatever you want to do in your own yard and I wouldn't hesitate to pull twice my GCWR around mine. It's not that hard to pull stuff around at yard speed and there are few safety issues, just (once you get into ridiculous numbers) breakage risks. Once you hit the road (where other people are around and speeds are higher) it's a different story though!


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

theholycow;1591742 said:


> As fervent an advocate I am of trailering (and general loading, and general road) safety, I see nothing wrong with whatever you want to do in your own yard and I wouldn't hesitate to pull twice my GCWR around mine. It's not that hard to pull stuff around at yard speed and there are few safety issues, just (once you get into ridiculous numbers) breakage risks. Once you hit the road (where other people are around and speeds are higher) it's a different story though!


I think one of the most key considerations when towing, is the tongue weight. It doesn't matter if you are rated to tow 10 million pounds, if the trailer needs a 10% tongue weight and the truck's payload capacity is only 500 pounds.

Remember that tongue weight is NOT just about stopping, it is also (and probably more importantly) about balance. Having your trailer start swaying violently because you're load is balanced too far back on the trailer is NOT good.

Also note that your tongue weight should actually be LESS than your remaining available payload. The payload limit assumes that the load is balanced approximately over the rear axle, while a trailer hitch (except for 5th wheel) is significantly behind, so it is cantilevered out behind the axle. A 500 pound tongue weight may add significantly more than 500 pounds to the rear axle since it shifts the truck's weight balance off the front axle and onto the rear.

As an example, lets consider a hypothetical 15,000 pound trailer that requires a 15% tongue weight. That makes for a tongue weight of 2250 pounds. That is 1 and 1/8 tons.

Now take your typical half-ton's payload capacity. Lets say 1750 pounds. You know, a big half-ton, like a Tundra. Remove 250 pounds from that for the driver and a tiny bit of gas and we have a maximum real payload capacity of 1500 pounds over the rear axle. Cantilever it out back to the trailer hitch and now we knock off another 500 pounds. We are at 1000 pounds maximum tongue weight. At 10% tongue weight, that really limits it to only 10,000 pounds trailer. At 15% tongue weight, we are already only a little over 6500 pounds maximum trailer weight.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

well said


these are extra characters so my post doesnt get rejected for being so small


----------



## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

jasonv, I couldn't have said that better myself. To be honest I don't have enough faith that the reader's attention can be held through explaining the cantilever issue, though on this site people may be more prepared to understand it from experience discussing the same issue with plows in front and their ballast in back.

I do find that some trailers need different percentages of tongue weight for stability...15% is a good rule of thumb to start with, but some need 20% or more and some don't even need 10%.


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

theholycow;1593925 said:


> jasonv, I couldn't have said that better myself. To be honest I don't have enough faith that the reader's attention can be held through explaining the cantilever issue, though on this site people may be more prepared to understand it from experience discussing the same issue with plows in front and their ballast in back.
> 
> I do find that some trailers need different percentages of tongue weight for stability...15% is a good rule of thumb to start with, but some need 20% or more and some don't even need 10%.


Right, absolutely. All kinds of factors can affect how much % weight needs to be on the tongue. Tandems typically require less than single axle. Low CoG tend not to require as much tongue weight, and when you start looking at trailers with a massive air wake, all bets are off. Air flow can have a huge effect on the tongue weight requirements.

And one thing that I've NEVER seen discussed, is that tongue LENGTH can have a major effect on required tongue weight, because the reality is that you're looking to get the optimal weight balance over the trailer's axle(s), the tongue weight itself is only a side-effect of the real weight distribution over the axle(s). The longer the tongue, the more lifting leverage, and the lower the tongue weight requirement.


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

Just put on some air bags lower your tire pressure and put in some Colman fuel with your gas and you can pull as much weight as your truck can handle


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

birddseedd;1594519 said:


> Just put on some air bags lower your tire pressure and put in some Colman fuel with your gas and you can pull as much weight as your truck can handle


FIFY
For posts like this, you're supposed to put one of these: 
(makes it clear you're just messing around for those not paying attention)


----------



## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Im putting in my two cents again I'm new to plow site but not to plowing or towing I have a cdl (commercial drivers liscense) and know your limitations I have two trucks both dodge ram 4x 4 a 1500 series truck and a 2500 v10. I do not expect them to do the same job i pull a skid steer with the 2500next v10 because its rated at 8800 lbs my 1500two is rated at 6400 lbs the difference is obvious if I had to pull my Bobcat with my 1500 I would only do it in an emergency and for a very short distance I mean very short
a you have to go by gross vehicle weight rating 1500 vehicles you can only pull 12,500 pounds on my 2500 I can pull 19,000 pounds see the difference between the gross vehicle weight rating


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

rjigto4oje;1596382 said:


> Im putting in my two cents again I'm new to plow site but not to plowing or towing I have a cdl (commercial drivers liscense) and know your limitations I have two trucks both dodge ram 4x 4 a 1500 series truck and a 2500 v10. I do not expect them to do the same job i pull a skid steer with the 2500next v10 because its rated at 8800 lbs my 1500two is rated at 6400 lbs the difference is obvious if I had to pull my Bobcat with my 1500 I would only do it in an emergency and for a very short distance I mean very short
> a you have to go by gross vehicle weight rating 1500 vehicles you can only pull 12,500 pounds on my 2500 I can pull 19,000 pounds see the difference between the gross vehicle weight rating


so then you would say the value in a 3/4 ton is in its ability to pull more. not carry more.?


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

rjigto4oje;1596382 said:


> ...... you have to go by gross vehicle weight rating 1500 vehicles you can only pull 12,500 pounds on my 2500 I can pull 19,000 pounds see the difference between the gross vehicle weight rating


Not slamming here just want to clarify that :

I think where people really get confused  is that they Don't understand the difference between GVW and GCVW … 

When one says that he can tow XXXXX number of pounds the rating actually means GCVW - Gross COMBINED Vehicle Weight not GVW - Gross Vehicle Weight which refers only to the vehicle its self ….


----------



## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

It can carry more and pull more and if you have any doubt 
Check with your local D.O.T dont want to see any kit there butt in a jam


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

rjigto4oje;1596690 said:


> It can carry more and pull more and if you have any doubt
> Check with your local D.O.T dont want to see any kit there butt in a jam


Ohh God! ...… Don't push that button :redbounce again u'll start another war of how a 3/4 ton is a glorified 1/2 ton … :laughing::laughing:


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

rjigto4oje;1596382 said:


> Im putting in my two cents again I'm new to plow site but not to plowing or towing I have a cdl (commercial drivers liscense) and know your limitations I have two trucks both dodge ram 4x 4 a 1500 series truck and a 2500 v10. I do not expect them to do the same job i pull a skid steer with the 2500next v10 because its rated at 8800 lbs my 1500two is rated at 6400 lbs the difference is obvious if I had to pull my Bobcat with my 1500 I would only do it in an emergency and for a very short distance I mean very short
> a you have to go by gross vehicle weight rating 1500 vehicles you can only pull 12,500 pounds on my 2500 I can pull 19,000 pounds see the difference between the gross vehicle weight rating


One must be aware of;
- GVWR tow vehicle
- GVWR trailer
- GCVWR tow vehicle
- tongue weight limitation WRT leverage and how it impacts load on the tow vehicle for non-5th-wheel trailers.

EVERY limit must be adhered to separately.

The way you write your post is confusing. Where did the 12500 and 19000 pound limits come from?
... oh, I see. You said that you can pull 12500 and 19000, but you meant that those are the GCVWR of the two vehicles. The actual tow limits are 6400 and 8800.

Interesting that your dodge ram 4x4 1500 has a lower tow rating than a toyota tacoma (6500 pound).


----------



## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

I got it out of the owners manual yes it is low thats why i upgraded to a 2500 v10 i will clarify my post when i can get to a computer insted of my cell phone


----------



## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

My 1500 dodge ram 4x4 weight empty is 5900 lbs the sticker on the door says that gross vehicle weight is 6400, you can only put 500 lbs in the truck. If you put more than 500 you are overloaded when pulling a trailer, the truck and trailer can not exceed 12.500 lbs. now to the 2500 4x4 v10 it. the weight is 6400 lbs empty the door sticker says 8800 lbs that means you can only put in 2400 lbs put more than that in and your overloaded when towing something the 2500 v10 truck and trailer you can't weigh over 19.000 lbs all of this info in in the owners manual P.S i have taken both of these trucks over scales that's how i know how much they weigh empty tongue weight is on the hitch read it and understand it also that will be our next topic


----------



## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

Your empty 1500 weighed 5900 on a scale? Did Dodge leave 1400 pounds of lead weights in it?


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

04' rams are about 5200


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

rjigto4oje;1596962 said:


> My 1500 dodge ram 4x4 weight empty is 5900 lbs the sticker on the door says that gross vehicle weight is 6400, you can only put 500 lbs in the truck. If you put more than 500 you are overloaded when pulling a trailer, the truck and trailer can not exceed 12.500 lbs. now to the 2500 4x4 v10 it. the weight is 6400 lbs empty the door sticker says 8800 lbs that means you can only put in 2400 lbs put more than that in and your overloaded when towing something the 2500 v10 truck and trailer you can't weigh over 19.000 lbs all of this info in in the owners manual P.S i have taken both of these trucks over scales that's how i know how much they weigh empty *tongue weight is on the hitch* read it and understand it also that will be our next topic


The *HITCH'S* maximum tongue weight is usually printed on the hitch, however the truck itself may not be able to support as much as the hitch can, especially when you're dealing with similar models, you could have the same part fit on a 1500 and a 3500. You need to be mindful of what the truck can support cantilevered out back.


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

theholycow;1596983 said:


> Your empty 1500 weighed 5900 on a scale? Did Dodge leave 1400 pounds of lead weights in it?


We're talking 4X4's here not 2 wheel drives, and probably a crew/quad cab ……. Hmmmmm ?

I've got a Lincoln Navigator 4x4 that weighs #6000, that's basically an F-150 with a metal canopy …. #5900 is not out of line.


----------



## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

yep the 1500 4x4 short bed extended cab is 5900 lbs over the scale


----------



## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

prsport:yow!: dabait is used to catch dafish


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

rjigto4oje;1597051 said:


> yep the 1500 4x4 short bed extended cab is 5900 lbs over the scale


I guess he'd have really big COW  if he new my Dually (the way it sits) with the 5th wheel hitch and 90 usgal fuel tank full/combo jockey box is just under #10,000 ...:laughing::laughing:


----------



## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

wesport Like the commercial says size matters:laughing::laughing:


----------



## BladeBlowBucket (Feb 6, 2013)

rjigto4oje;1597099 said:


> wesport Like the commercial says size matters …


Had a girl friend yrs ago that said That Once ! ……. So I told her the same thing ! ……

That's why She's a USED TO BE !! :laughing:


----------



## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

what commerical?


----------



## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

the male enhancmentprsportprsport


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

BladeBlowBucket;1597111 said:


> Had a girl friend yrs ago that said That Once ! ……. So I told her the same thing ! ……
> 
> That's why She's a USED TO BE !! :laughing:


Hah, I had a girlfriend say that too.
So I married her Thumbs Up


----------

