# Mich Regs/Laws on private contractor strobe color specs.



## nixray

So, looking for some insight/clearity. State of Michigan restrictions for GREEN warning lights for a private service provider (contractor). 
I'm all ready aware of amber/clear regs. 

I'm aware of the local Road Comissions use of GREEN. But, what risk I'm running a Amber/Green light bar? 99% of the time my warning lights are ONLY on while at my clients property. 
I do however activate, when road conditions restrict travel speed (e.g highway speeds of travel 10mph under posted). Or come upon a disabled vehicle(for the prevention of additional risk to the public. I may "block" traffic in the event of a wreck or slide off). Thank you for any insight.


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## SnoFarmer

Do people other than employes use these lots?
If so it is open to public use, laws that wouldn't normally extend to private property now do
Your lights can be in violation .

In some states you don't even need to have your light on to be in violation.
Just having certain colors visabel is a violation.


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## nixray

Yes. The lots are "private" property with access to the public during operating hours. (Retail center open9-9 public access. After 11pm. You are trespassing/lotering)


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## ktfbgb

So I'm not from your state. However I just refreshed myself with my state laws as I am looking into a new led strobe package. It states that on vehicles being used for snow plowing operations that front and rear facing strobes may be cleAr or amber. They specifically prohibit red or blue on anything other than fire, police, or ambulance. They don't specifically ban green, purple, etc. However I wouldn't spend the money on anything other than what is specified in the statute. I don't want to be bothered. I would be willing to bet that your state has similar wording as to what is acceptable and just because they don't specifically say you can't use a certain color doesn't mean that you should use it. Stick with what the statute says. If you don't, even if it's on private property, it's still ultimately going to be up the the officers discretion wether he messes with you or not.


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## SnoFarmer

The catch is, the business is soliciting the public to come to their businenss ,
So the lot is open to the public.
In this case the same rules of the road/standards could apply.

if this was a lot for employees only, then it has a controlled access.
But without a gate it still could be seen as open to the pubLic.

I know it sounds a littel goofy, but after the jagoff incident I did
Some reading.
It's like some bylaw .

Laws extending onto private property/ access.


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## ktfbgb

SnoFarmer said:


> The catch is, the business is soliciting the public to come to their businenss ,
> So the lot is open to the public.
> In this case the same rules of the road/standards could apply.
> 
> if this was a lot for employees only, then it has a controlled access.
> But without a gate it still could be seen as open to the pubLic.
> 
> I know it sounds a littel goofy, but after the jagoff incident I did
> Some reading.
> It's like some bylaw .
> 
> Laws extending onto private property/ access.


That's how I would look at it. I would like to run some green after seeing some of the studies on visibility, however I just stick with what the statute specifically says so I'm covered no matter where I am plowing.


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## leolkfrm

green is reserved for medical personnel in most states....responding emergency medics


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## GrassManKzoo

MDOT is running green lights on their plows. In Kalamazoo all the city trucks are adding green... What's the difference.. 

And also to chime in I think purple lights are reserved for the undertaker. 

YAY first post!


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## SnoFarmer

some are granted the use of a color by law.
some to the point that in MN MDOT is suppose to use a blue lights with amber.

the " police" can only use blue on the curb side but you see them using blue in with the red amber and white lights.

in most states we are only allowed to use amber.


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## GrassManKzoo

After looking more.. It was signed into law that plow trucks can use both green and yellow

http://www.michiganvotes.org/2016-HB-5247


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## SnoFarmer

that is kind of vague.
what plow trucks the states or those used by the citizens?

Only state vesicles in MN can use a color other than amber.

edit that is for county /state or city plow trucks not private vehicles.
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/11/14/officials-look-at-green-lights-for-michigan-snow-plows/


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## SnoFarmer

*257.698 *
(5) The use or possession of flashing, oscillating, or rotating lights of any color is prohibited except as otherwise provided by law, or under the following circumstances:

(d) Flashing, rotating, or oscillating amber or green lights, placed in a position as to be visible throughout an arc of 360 degrees, shall be used by a state, county, or municipal vehicle engaged in the removal of ice, snow, or other material from the highway and in other operations designed to control ice and snow, or engaged in other non-winter operations. This subdivision does not prohibit the use of a flashing, rotating, or oscillating green light by a fire service.

(6) A person shall not sell, loan, or otherwise furnish a flashing, rotating, or oscillating blue or red light designed primarily for installation on an authorized emergency vehicle to a person except a police officer, sheriff, deputy sheriff, authorized physician, volunteer or paid fire fighter, volunteer ambulance driver, licensed ambulance driver or attendant of the state, a county or municipality within the state,

(f) A vehicle to perform public utility service, a vehicle owned or leased by and licensed as a business for use in the collection and hauling of refuse, an automobile service car or wrecker, a vehicle engaged in authorized highway repair or maintenance, a vehicle of a peace officer, a vehicle operated by a rural letter carrier or a person under contract to deliver newspapers or other publications by motor route, _a vehicle utilized for snow or ice removal under section 682c,_ a private security guard vehicle as authorized in subsection (7), a motor vehicle while engaged in escorting or transporting an oversize load that has been issued a permit by the state transportation department or a local authority with respect to highways under its jurisdiction, a vehicle owned by the national guard or a United States military vehicle while traveling under the appropriate recognized military authority, a motor vehicle while towing an implement of husbandry, or an implement of husbandry _may be equipped with flashing, rotating, or oscillating amber lights.

fyi_


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## GrassManKzoo

I found the bill it reads:

(d) Flashing, rotating, or oscillating amber or green lights, placed in a position as to be visible throughout an arc of 360 degrees, shall be used by a state, county, or municipal vehicle engaged in the removal of ice, snow, or other material from the highway and in other operations designed to control ice and snow, or engaged in other non-winter operations. This subdivision does not prohibit the use of a flashing, rotating, or oscillating green light by a fire service.


(f) A vehicle to perform public utility service, a vehicle owned or leased by and licensed as a business for use in the collection and hauling of refuse, an automobile service car or wrecker, a vehicle engaged in authorized highway repair or maintenance, a vehicle of a peace officer, a vehicle operated by a rural letter carrier or a person under contract to deliver newspapers or other publications by motor route, a vehicle utilized for snow or ice removal under section 682c, a private security guard vehicle as authorized in subsection (7), a motor vehicle while engaged in escorting or transporting an oversize load that has been issued a permit by the state transportation department or a local authority with respect to highways under its jurisdiction, a vehicle owned by the national guard or a United States military vehicle while traveling under the appropriate recognized military authority, a motor vehicle while towing an implement of husbandry, or an implement of husbandry may be equipped with flashing, rotating, or oscillating amber lights. However, a wrecker may be equipped with flashing, rotating, or oscillating red lights that shall be activated only when the wrecker is engaged in removing or assisting a vehicle at the scene of a traffic accident or disablement. The flashing, rotating, or oscillating amber lights shall not be activated except when the warning produced by the lights is required for public safety.


No green lights for us


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## GrassManKzoo

Dang you beat me to it


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## ktfbgb

There ya go. Stick with amber lights. You will be plenty visible.


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## leolkfrm

can always ad some white?


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## Mark Oomkes

leolkfrm said:


> green is reserved for medical personnel in most states....responding emergency medics


Most states? You sure?

Actually, green used to indicate where the IC post was located. Now everybody is jumping on the green bandwagon.


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## Mark Oomkes

leolkfrm said:


> can always ad some white?


If you get really technical, white lights aren't allowed on anything but LE in Michigan. And school buses.

White in snowstorms is stupid, it just reflects back in your face.


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## Mark Oomkes

The whole concept is stupid and an excuse for muni's to buy new toys. Supposedly the green lights will reduce idiots from driving into the back of plow trucks because of the differentiating speeds betwixt plow trucks and the general moronic public. 

So I see an East Grand Rapids truck with green lights all over the grille. Apparently they get ass-ended in the front regularly. Not to mention, the highest speed limit in EGR is maybe 45, but probably 35 or 40. 98% of their roads are 25 MPH.


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## leolkfrm

Mark Oomkes said:


> Most states? You sure?
> 
> Actually, green used to indicate where the IC post was located. Now everybody is jumping on the green bandwagon.


im old school, its how it was, but things change..:hammerhead: guess i should read up, :laugh:, ill stick with my new yellow led.....i learned a long time ago, when it comes to dumb drivers, you cant fix stupid


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## ktfbgb

Mark Oomkes said:


> Most states? You sure?
> 
> Actually, green used to indicate where the IC post was located. Now everybody is jumping on the green bandwagon.


AZ uses ICS as does most of the western states. All our rigs were outfitted with a green rotator for major incidents to indicate where the ICP was located. As a Captain before I retired, I can honestly say that I never once remembered to put out the green light when I was in command. Usually my engineer would remember for me lol.

Glad to see that ICS is making its way further east as the old fireground command and other systems are antiquated. I was surprised that someone knew what green was originally intended for Thumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes

ktfbgb said:


> AZ uses ICS as does most of the western states. All our rigs were outfitted with a green rotator for major incidents to indicate where the ICP was located. As a Captain before I retired, I can honestly say that I never once remembered to put out the green light when I was in command. Usually my engineer would remember for me lol.
> 
> Glad to see that ICS is making its way further east as the old fireground command and other systems are antiquated. I was surprised that someone knew what green was originally intended for Thumbs Up


I knew what it was for...never saw it used. lol The green light. ICS, yes it is. Other than the chiefs who can't learn to trust their people.


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## ktfbgb

Mark Oomkes said:


> I knew what it was for...never saw it used. lol The green light. ICS, yes it is. Other than the chiefs who can't learn to trust their people.


It's been that way since the beginning of the fire service. The old dogs can't trust the snot nosed young kids. They forgot more than you have learned so far yada yada. Then the young kids become the old dogs and it starts all over again. I have to say there didn't seem to be much push back from the old dogs when ICS was adopted what like 15 years ago. Just made sense to have a common command structure and nomenclature to be able to order resources no matter where you were. If you ordered a tanker you knew you were getting an airplane and not a water tender lol.


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## Mark Oomkes

ktfbgb said:


> If you ordered a tanker you knew you were getting an airplane and not a water tender lol.


There's more tankers on wheels\trucks than there are "air" tankers. That one was lost, but they'll always be tankers to me. lol

I know it's hard to stay in 1 spot as an IC, but I forced myself to do it. Nothing annoyed me more than to never know where my IC was. Or, he was right next to me because he didn't trust me.


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## ktfbgb

Ya I was usually a "Mobil" IC at least at the start of an incident. Until I had RIC and a safety officer on a structure fire I continually walked laps so I knew what was going on with the building. Once I had them in place I could settle down and let them watch it for me. It was easier with like multi vehicle collisions on the interstate. One lap and you had a pretty good idea of what was going on and could sit down in the rig and manage resources.


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## boss75

ktfbgb said:


> AZ uses ICS as does most of the western states. All our rigs were outfitted with a green rotator for major incidents to indicate where the ICP was located. As a Captain before I retired, I can honestly say that I never once remembered to put out the green light when I was in command. Usually my engineer would remember for me lol.
> 
> Glad to see that ICS is making its way further east as the old fireground command and other systems are antiquated. I was surprised that someone knew what green was originally intended for Thumbs Up


How many threads do we have to read where you were a captain in the FD before you retired?


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## ktfbgb

boss75 said:


> How many threads do we have to read where you were a captain in the FD before you retired?


Hey thanks for bringing up the old thread. If me and Oomks want to talk about I guess we will. Out of 1400 posts I would guess it's mentioned like 15 times. Sorry if it made you jealous. You can always choose not to read it Bossman. I could care less if you don't like my posts just so we are absolutely clear. Thumbs Up


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## JK-Plow

Back in the 80's I used green with amber when plowing snow. Security vehicles also used green. A few fire department volunteers also put green in with their red and white lights. Then fire departments decided that green should be for incident command vehicles. When I was using the green amber, there were a few contractors also using green for plowing. Then the fire departments pushed to make green just for their incident command. However there was no law enacted to restrict green to them. Some security companies used green the whole time and still do. Kent County Road Commission started to use green prior to the law being enacted, with positive results. The law was enacted to encourage green to be used when plowing snow with amber lights for safety.

Several states have green lights for volunteer fire and ambulance services. But they use them as courtesy lights. I have seen volunteer and even regular fire vehicles in some states using green lights to have a different color so that drivers see something different and don't have the moth effect. In Michigan I have seen volunteer firemen from other states drive in our state with blue lights. A few have added green to their blue so as to get noticed when they are on a run. And to add to the green light use, in Puerto Rico the police use green lights, with blue or just the green lights.


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## SnoFarmer

and...


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## boss75

ktfbgb said:


> Hey thanks for bringing up the old thread. If me and Oomks want to talk about I guess we will. Out of 1400 posts I would guess it's mentioned like 15 times. Sorry if it made you jealous. You can always choose not to read it Bossman. I could care less if you don't like my posts just so we are absolutely clear. Thumbs Up


That's it, give it a rest, we hear that song and dance from all of the local ya-hoo's and all of their war stories with their 25 plus lights on their trucks every day. Your acting captain title by no means makes me jealous of you. Once is enough, not 15 times, I think we all get message, about you and your acting captain duties on your engine, along with Oomkes flapping his lips over 14k times on every post. Also, Oomkes is proper spelling. At least you could learn how to spell his name correctly. The both of you should start your own thread (we know everything about everything on the engine that I worked as a acting captain, wonder why you never made captain?).


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## ktfbgb

boss75 said:


> That's it, give it a rest, we hear that song and dance from all of the local ya-hoo's and all of their war stories with their 25 plus lights on their trucks every day. Your acting captain title by no means makes me jealous of you. Once is enough, not 15 times, I think we all get message, about you and your acting captain duties on your engine, along with Oomkes flapping his lips over 14k times on every post. Also, Oomkes is proper spelling. At least you could learn how to spell his name correctly. The both of you should start your own thread (we know everything about everything on the engine that I worked as a acting captain, wonder why you never made captain?).


Hmmm that would be because, like most departments, we lived and died on the list each time. No open positions equals no rated promotion for #1 on the list.

I will not give it a rest, especially since you requested it. I will continue to post what I want when its relevant to the thread. Nice try though tough guy. Go complain to someone else, maybe they will listen to your suggestions.

Go on back to your other threads now and complain about not getting paid, or complain that a new 2017 half ton pretend truck costs too much, or whatever else you decide to be miserable about that day. Thats kinda your M.O., being a miserable person isn't it?


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## Mark Oomkes

boss75 said:


> That's it, give it a rest, we hear that song and dance from all of the local ya-hoo's and all of their war stories with their 25 plus lights on their trucks every day. Your acting captain title by no means makes me jealous of you. Once is enough, not 15 times, I think we all get message, about you and your acting captain duties on your engine, along with Oomkes flapping his lips over 14k times on every post. Also, Oomkes is proper spelling. At least you could learn how to spell his name correctly. The both of you should start your own thread (we know everything about everything on the engine that I worked as a acting captain, wonder why you never made captain?).


Lol


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## Defcon 5

boss75 said:


> That's it, give it a rest, we hear that song and dance from all of the local ya-hoo's and all of their war stories with their 25 plus lights on their trucks every day. Your acting captain title by no means makes me jealous of you. Once is enough, not 15 times, I think we all get message, about you and your acting
> 
> captain duties on your engine, along with Oomkes flapping his lips over 14k times on
> 
> every post. Also, Oomkes is proper spelling. At
> 
> least you could learn how to spell his name correctly. The both of you should start your own thread (we know everything about
> 
> everything on the engine that I worked as a acting captain, wonder why you never made captain?).


Lmao....People say I'm angry....


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## ktfbgb

Defcon 5 said:


> Lmao....People say I'm angry....


Lol he is a Moron.


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## BossPlow2010

ktfbgb said:


> Hmmm that would be because, like most departments, we lived and died on the list each time. No open positions equals no rated promotion for #1 on the list.
> 
> I will not give it a rest, especially since you requested it. I will continue to post what I want when its relevant to the thread. Nice try though tough guy. Go complain to someone else, maybe they will listen to your suggestions.
> 
> Go on back to your other threads now and complain about not getting paid, or complain that a new 2017 half ton pretend truck costs too much, or whatever else you decide to be miserable about that day. Thats kinda your M.O., being a miserable person isn't it?


Can you tell me about being a sergeant and LT


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## ktfbgb

BossPlow2010 said:


> Can you tell me about being a sergeant and LT


LOL sorry I can't. Sergeant is a LE rank, and out West most departments don't have Lieutenants, some do, but mine did not.


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Lmao....People say I'm angry....


You are.


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## GrassManKzoo

boss75 said:


> That's it, give it a rest, we hear that song and dance from all of the local ya-hoo's and all of their war stories with their 25 plus lights on their trucks every day. Your acting captain title by no means makes me jealous of you. Once is enough, not 15 times, I think we all get message, about you and your acting captain duties on your engine, along with Oomkes flapping his lips over 14k times on every post. Also, Oomkes is proper spelling. At least you could learn how to spell his name correctly. The both of you should start your own thread (we know everything about everything on the engine that I worked as a acting captain, wonder why you never made captain?).


Since there's no button... [Dislike]


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## groundbreakers

nixray said:


> So, looking for some insight/clearity. State of Michigan restrictions for GREEN warning lights for a private service provider (contractor).
> I'm all ready aware of amber/clear regs.
> 
> I'm aware of the local Road Comissions use of GREEN. But, what risk I'm running a Amber/Green light bar? 99% of the time my warning lights are ONLY on while at my clients property.
> I do however activate, when road conditions restrict travel speed (e.g highway speeds of travel 10mph under posted). Or come upon a disabled vehicle(for the prevention of additional risk to the public. I may "block" traffic in the event of a wreck or slide off). Thank you for any insight.


Michigan code is basically red/blue strictly law enforcement red & red/clear fire rescue / first responder amber & amber/clear general public green military & general public use purple for funeral processions GREEN AMBER CLEAR FOR EVERYONE !!!


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## SnoFarmer

Do you have a link to back that up?


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## Mark Oomkes

SnoFarmer said:


> Do you have a link to back that up?


No, because he's wrong on more than one of those statements.


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## ktfbgb

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(x...cuments/mcl/pdf/mcl-300-1949-VI-EQUIPMENT.pdf

Section 257.698 section F

private contractors engaged in snow or ice removal may only use amber lights.

There is a section stating that state county and municipal vehicles may use green and amber. So unless you are driving a vehicle owned by one of the above...... amber is your color.


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## SnoFarmer

ktfbgb said:


> https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(x...cuments/mcl/pdf/mcl-300-1949-VI-EQUIPMENT.pdf
> 
> Section 257.698 section F
> 
> private contractors engaged in snow or ice removal may only use amber lights.
> 
> There is a section stating that state county and municipal vehicles may use green and amber. So unless you are driving a vehicle owned by one of the above...... amber is your color.


Thanks for adding the link it's "important" that we pass along factual info.


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## ktfbgb

SnoFarmer said:


> Thanks for adding the link it's "important" that we pass along factual info.


I agree. In this day and age it's so easy to pull up the state legislature web site, for any state, and look up the law in question.

I think some people just want to have different colors so they go with the well I heard from so and so that it was ok. And then it gets reinforced because the police have better things to do usually during a snow storm. Then one day the duty supervisor says enough is enough today I want all you guys to issue tickets to people with illegal lighting so we can get it under control. Then everyone gets butt hurt. But all they had to do was spend 3 minutes looking up the regulation to avoid wasting the money lol.


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## Arrowbrook 99

ktfbgb said:


> So I'm not from your state. However I just refreshed myself with my state laws as I am looking into a new led strobe package. It states that on vehicles being used for snow plowing operations that front and rear facing strobes may be cleAr or amber. They specifically prohibit red or blue on anything other than fire, police, or ambulance. They don't specifically ban green, purple, etc. However I wouldn't spend the money on anything other than what is specified in the statute. I don't want to be bothered. I would be willing to bet that your state has similar wording as to what is acceptable and just because they don't specifically say you can't use a certain color doesn't mean that you should use it. Stick with what the statute says. If you don't, even if it's on private property, it's still ultimately going to be up the the officers discretion wether he messes with you or not.


I live in Orange County New York. I have heard some county's in other states test green lights on there plows. I have a 12 inch roof light with Amber/white for front and side and Amber/white Amber/blue for rear visibility. I can say the police where I live don't bother you and don't care what color your REAR flashing lights are. As long as fronts are Amber. I'm retired law enforcement and would never bother a man out working. But I am well aware that unfortunately there are police/troopers out there with nothing better to do. So I would simply say if you have concerns about light colors your local police have nothing better to do and I would be in strict compliance of your local law regarding private plow trucks.


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## Mark Oomkes

groundbreakers said:


> Michigan code is basically red/blue strictly law enforcement red & red/clear fire rescue / first responder amber & amber/clear general public green military & general public use purple for funeral processions GREEN AMBER CLEAR FOR EVERYONE !!!


Buehler....Buehler......Buehler


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## Defcon 5

Does the Beacon have to be LED or Halogen???


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## Mark Oomkes

Yes


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## extremepusher

Green means go right?! Go fast!!!.......


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## FredG

We got to use amber, The problem I have the City has a law where you have to have your amber on while traveling in a snow event. It's almost embarrassing people look at you like why that :terribletowel:have his amber on, lol


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## John_DeereGreen

FredG said:


> We got to use amber, The problem I have the City has a law where you have to have your amber on while traveling in a snow event. It's almost embarrassing people look at you like why that :terribletowel:have his amber on, lol


That drives me nuts.

Training day 101 any new guys, and all our current ones, are told/reminded to turn the flashing lights and work lights off from property to property.

ONLY exception is whiteout conditions for trucks. Machines roading from site to site have to turn rear work lights off, but leave warning lights on.


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