# Salt drying up already ??!!



## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

My local connection has had their pick tickets cut in half and nothing more until Jan. A few other local places are bone dry. Major chains are out or nearly out. Prices have been bumped up already. Those with stock are limiting pallets per week.

What are you guys hearing??????


----------



## newlooklandscp (Sep 27, 2005)

I am calling in an order tomorrow of bulk. I will let you know. But I haven't had any problems nor has a few buddies of mine. I believe one just took 3 semis two days ago. Must be your suppliers.


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

umm your nuts.. i called for an order today , got 3 prices , all three could deliver with in 24 hours or less.. one said a few hours and i could have it , granted i was 135 deliver with tax.... but not too bad

i was told more barges are makign there way up the river.. and 40 degrees this weekend will help with that... plus other than next week on wed/thrusday ... there is nothing forcasted till x mas. I wouldnt get worried unless you dont have what you need for a month or so


----------



## newlooklandscp (Sep 27, 2005)

sweet, nothing till xmas. I can finally get me new trucks finished. $135 delivered is not bad. I have heard (not purchased) $145 + trucking + fuel + tax from some places. Screw that. Granted I am doing alot better than $135 with no fuel, trucking, and super low tax at 7.25%

Ken


----------



## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

scottL;672305 said:


> My local connection has had their pick tickets cut in half and nothing more until Jan. A few other local places are bone dry. Major chains are out or nearly out. Prices have been bumped up already. Those with stock are limiting pallets per week.
> 
> What are you guys hearing??????


Somebody is nuts....I called a guy last week.....He asked me how much I wanted...and when. I said I really didnt figure you would have any...he laughed and said, let me know if you need more. I stopped by the sand dreddging plant this last week to get some more sand to mix with our salt during a storm and i was 7 trucks back in line at the scales... i'm thinking WTF....so i called the office to see what was going on and the lady was like what do you mean, it's snowing, it's always like this when it snows. I was like yeah when you guys are selling Mixed, you dont have any salt....she was like....who told you that? I start looking and they have a big ol pile of salt. When i went back to the scales after i filled up i asked her if they had enough to get through winter and she told me depending on the weather and when the next shipment got there they shouldnt run out.

I know the Home Depot & Westlake Hardware here has told me they have recieved gurantees from their suppliers they wont run out.


----------



## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

time will tell prsport


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

so much for the "shortage"


----------



## grsp (Oct 19, 2008)

elitesmith, you mind me asking where you are getting salt for $135. we paid $165 plus delivery for the first 200 tons out of the port of indiana. we need another 150 tons in the next month or so.


----------



## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

grsp;673038 said:


> elitesmith, you mind me asking where you are getting salt for $135. we paid $165 plus delivery for the first 200 tons out of the port of indiana. we need another 150 tons in the next month or so.


Wow....i was about to say that $135 was a little high compared to what I paid *LAST WEEK but, hell I paid more than that on my first load I recieved in Oct. though. The stuff is like gas prices right now....up and down ...up and down. I don't think suppliers are as low as they let people to believe.

grsp....if elite can't help you out send Powerjoke a PM, I think he may know a guy that can help you.*


----------



## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

We have no problem getting salt here in Ontario. Have a second load comming in this morning, after a really busy December. We usually get another load of salt around the second week of January. 

You guy's are getting ripped in price also. I pay $78.00 plus tax per ton delivered to my door.


----------



## bridge577 (Sep 30, 2005)

Wow I feel bad for you guys out there I'v been upset paying $90 per ton w/delivery. We've already went through 150 ton and restocked yesterday. And we haven't even really got into winter yet.


----------



## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

elite1msmith;672509 said:


> umm your nuts.. i called for an order today , got 3 prices , all three could deliver with in 24 hours or less.. one said a few hours and i could have it , granted i was 135 deliver with tax.... but not too bad
> 
> i was told more barges are makign there way up the river.. and 40 degrees this weekend will help with that... plus other than next week on wed/thrusday ... there is nothing forcasted till x mas. I wouldnt get worried unless you dont have what you need for a month or so


No I'm not nuts, a little crazy at times but not nuts. What I posted is what I have been finding. I don't do much in bulk maybe there is a difference but, I've also heard that is slowing up too. Maybe your sources have more on hand for right now - dunno. We are expecting two - three storms starting sun/mon.


----------



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

No shortage here, I call, they deliver in 4 hours.


----------



## kcplowmata (Sep 15, 2007)

dam 130 a ton 58 with tax included here


----------



## timberseal (Jul 24, 2008)

$170 a ton bagged here (plus tax) and I also heard the bagged stuff is rolling into a shortage. I've talked to a couple places that have been shorted several semi loads already from Cargill and a few places are out with no idea when its coming back in. Again this is all bagged though...


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

JohnnyRoyale;673232 said:


> No shortage here, I call, they deliver in 4 hours.


None yet anyway. LOL

I prepaid for 820 tonnes and ordered the first 2 loads from someone else. I don't want to go through what I went through last year.


----------



## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

timberseal;673858 said:


> $170 a ton bagged here (plus tax) and I also heard the bagged stuff is rolling into a shortage. I've talked to a couple places that have been shorted several semi loads already from Cargill and a few places are out with no idea when its coming back in. Again this is all bagged though...


The Manager at the Home Depot & Westlake Hardware have both told me that they have a guarantee from their bagged supplier that they will not run out. At the Westlake Hardware here they even had a form to fill out if you were wanting to pre-order pallets you would get 15% off the pallet price. I get my bagged stuff through United Rentals though, I do a pre-season order then mid-season since they don't keep it in stock, but I called my guy there today to ask about bagged and if there would be issues on being able to get some in January his reply was "nope, won't be a problem at all"


----------



## ultimateinc (Dec 3, 2008)

you have 2 v box spreaders and you run bag salt ? isnt that a pain in the ass ? specially with a 6yrd spreader??


----------



## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

ultimateinc;674051 said:


> you have 2 v box spreaders and you run bag salt ? isnt that a pain in the ass ? specially with a 6yrd spreader??


I buy bagged Ice melt...for sidewalks.

You should have read the first 2 post i had in this thread.


----------



## bike5200 (Sep 4, 2007)

Could it be the price is up where the mine's want it and for some reason they have salt now.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

bike5200;674234 said:


> Could it be the price is up where the mine's want it and for some reason they have salt now.


I don't think it is the mines making all the money. It is way cheaper up here even for US salt.


----------



## kimber (Oct 27, 2008)

grsp;673038 said:


> elitesmith, you mind me asking where you are getting salt for $135. we paid $165 plus delivery for the first 200 tons out of the port of indiana. we need another 150 tons in the next month or so.


Shoot, tell me where you are and I'll get a trucking price from my inventory.


----------



## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

i see all these prices with + tax arent any of you tax exempt?


----------



## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

All these people will change there tune if we start to get dumped on like last year .............there are no guarantees


----------



## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

clark lawn;674562 said:


> i see all these prices with + tax arent any of you tax exempt?


if your tax exempt than you have to seperate your service price and materials to charge the customer the appropriate sales tax. if you dont exempt yourself than you can include it in your service price and be reimbursed for the cost+tax and be covered. otherwise if you dont collect you end up paying the tax you should of originally + your markup (which could be considered your service charge) yourself when the end of the year rolls around.


----------



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

cet;673919 said:


> None yet anyway. LOL
> 
> I prepaid for 820 tonnes and ordered the first 2 loads from someone else. I don't want to go through what I went through last year.


Who'd you prepay your 820 tonnes to?


----------



## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

terrapro;674604 said:


> if your tax exempt than you have to seperate your service price and materials to charge the customer the appropriate sales tax. if you dont exempt yourself than you can include it in your service price and be reimbursed for the cost+tax and be covered. otherwise if you dont collect you end up paying the tax you should of originally + your markup (which could be considered your service charge) yourself when the end of the year rolls around.


you probably need to check with your state but here you are required to show tax on the invoice. doing it the way you are may be illeagal. I know a guy here who was doing it your way when another company got the contract the showed tax the customer called and complained that they never paid tax before, new guy wouldnt take it off the invoice so customer called state to verify and gave the name of the last contractor. State investgated and went back for back sales tax since he started his biz,it ended up putting him out of business.


----------



## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

clark lawn;674803 said:


> you probably need to check with your state but here you are required to show tax on the invoice. doing it the way you are may be illeagal. I know a guy here who was doing it your way when another company got the contract the showed tax the customer called and complained that they never paid tax before, new guy wouldnt take it off the invoice so customer called state to verify and gave the name of the last contractor. State investgated and went back for back sales tax since he started his biz,it ended up putting him out of business.


he did not have his reciepts showing he paid sales tax when he purchased it?

sales tax is only collected on items *sold*. if you pay sales tax on your item when you purchase it and you do not mark up your item you do not have to collect from the customer because it would be considered material reimbursed for services rendured. no mark up, no profit = materials = no sales tax collection, because you did not sell the salt to the customer only the service.

yes if you mark up your the salt for a profit you have to collect sales tax on it.

just make sure it is it is understood that reimbursable materials are stated to be included in the final price. or you can just itemize/seperate everything and all will be fine.

yes in some states you tax everything anyway, sales/service.

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=165272,00.html

the next one will not apply to everyone but it does to me in MI
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/95-1SUW_114841_7.pdf


----------



## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

like you said every state is different ours states that the *end* user pays the sales tax and everything is taxable here. Another ? for you guys that do it your way what do you do if the tax rate changes during the season? do you adjust the price you charge or do just eat it? Our rate is changing the first of the year ( goes up .25) while not a whole lot in itself it is a sizable amount of based on my monthly revenue. I would not want to just eat that amount.


----------



## NorthernSvc's (Mar 12, 2006)

elite if you don't mind saying were are you getting salt for tha price? i just paid 150.00 ton delivered 80 tons and thought that was the best pice around ( made lots of phone calls).


----------



## kimber (Oct 27, 2008)

elite1msmith;672509 said:


> umm your nuts.. i called for an order today , got 3 prices , all three could deliver with in 24 hours or less.. one said a few hours and i could have it , granted i was 135 deliver with tax.... but not too bad
> 
> i was told more barges are makign there way up the river.. and 40 degrees this weekend will help with that... plus other than next week on wed/thrusday ... there is nothing forcasted till x mas. I wouldnt get worried unless you dont have what you need for a month or so


I was talking to one of the shipping companies yesterday and he said after a few more loads (I thought one was going to Chicago area) they were going to be laying up the boats for the winter. I don't know if that applies to barges coming up the Mississippi River.


----------



## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

we have already gone through 1300 tons, we are garunteed 12,000 and the trucks deliver after every storm to refresh our piles. no sign of a shortage here!


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

JohnnyRoyale;674662 said:


> Who'd you prepay your 820 tonnes to?


The Salt Depot. They charge me $2 more per tonne then Canadian and they saved my butt 3 years ago so I will gladly give them the extra couple of bucks. They ordered everything from Sifto and bought a new place in Markham and have it stock piled there. They pre bought everything they pre sold or at least so they say. Last year when I couldn't get any salt JD Dave got me one load and the Salt Depot got me 2. I pre paid over $60,000 but peace of mind is priceless. If I brought in a loader I might get 300 tonnes in my Coverall but last year we went through 1200 to 1500 and this year has started out with a bang. I bet I am through 150 to 200 all ready.


----------



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

What is SD chargin delivered? We get ours from Draglam at $72 a tonne.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

JohnnyRoyale;675179 said:


> What is SD chargin delivered? We get ours from Draglam at $72 a tonne.


I thought you could prebuy from Draglam? That's a good price because that's pretty much what I pay from Canadian. The SD could be worth looking into for me also, like CET says, $2/tonne extra for a gaurantee is worth every penny.


----------



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Canadian and Sifto will only deliver in trailer loads. Draglam and SD will do triaxles, as I dont have the room for a trailer to back in. I think you could prebuy from them too.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

JohnnyRoyale;675205 said:


> Canadian and Sifto will only deliver in trailer loads. Draglam and SD will do triaxles, as I dont have the room for a trailer to back in. I think you could prebuy from them too.


Cargill will deliver Tri-axles but who cares your getting a great price.


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

stroker79;675027 said:


> we have already gone through 1300 tons, we are garunteed 12,000 and the trucks deliver after every storm to refresh our piles. no sign of a shortage here!


WHO is "WE"??

Just curious where people come up with these numbers. I am running 6 salt trucks and load out about 20 tons per trip. So far put down 7 apps. that is just about 140 tons.

So what kind of equipment do "WE" have to be if the market has had about 7 salt runs @1300 tons you would be spreading just over 185 tons per event. I know muni's that are not droping that kinds tonage.

So can you share with us what type of equipment "WE" are running to put down those type of numbers. I mean industry standard being 1 ton per acre, I acre per hour plowed "WE" have over 185 hours in plowing too??? That would have to be around 20 turcks just plowable hours on an average of 8 hour runs.....

Thanks for the insight I am sure you have the informtion to back all this up. As anyoen that know me, my equipment and has been by my yard can see the bin/pile I am working off of and knows what hours I am running.

However, back on topic, I have been advised to take whatever bagged product I need early as that bagged production is comming to a halt and the market will be left without supply. I only use blended product on walks and going to switch to treated for bulk seeing how it is only $15.00 more per ton and it would cost me much more that that to do it myeslf. My supplier was right on the mark last season when he called to tell me stock up and he has NEVER lead me the worng way. All he has told me has been right on the money. So do what you want with that information I know what I am doing.

Ron G.


----------



## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

4evergreenlawns;676213 said:


> WHO is "WE"??
> 
> Just curious where people come up with these numbers. I am running 6 salt trucks and load out about 20 tons per trip. So far put down 7 apps. that is just about 140 tons.
> 
> ...


Well the company I sub for is WE and you can WE at www.valleyenterprisesinc.com

WE have about 25 Class B six wheelers, and 24 front end loaders. WE have alot of accounts but all that info isnt really your business. If it were my company Id have better discrestion over what info I give out but its not so I leave it that. WE are also based out of elgin, im sure youve seen US around. And yes we do put down more salt then most munis, hence the reason we normally have no issue with getting saltwesport


----------



## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

Edit- i misread a part of your reply making my reply invalid.


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Well thanks now that makes sense. Valley is becoming huge in the area. I know of a couple of HOA's that really like there 30 days no serivce refund program. 

It is a nice pitch kinda like if we do not service to a set amount this season we will reduce the amount next season. Or better yet that "we service ever 4 hours no matter what is happening" sell. At the end of the day whatever it take to sell the business. 

So what does that make you like a VP or something??? That's kewl you have all that expereience managing and runing that amount of equipment and calling the shots.

After all it would suck for just an employee of a comany that size to be putting out data like that for public knowledge. I would be pissed to hear one of my drivers to be talk about how much he was doing in snow biz based on driving just a truck. The owner is an Elgin Police Officer or something like that right?

ON EDIT- I forgot to add I do know someone that is a route supervisor for Valley and on this site so I am sure you both know each other but he does not have any of the kewl data you have. 

Ron G.


----------



## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

Yep he is a friend of mine and I am subbing for them and know them all very well.

I did not put out any information that isnt on thier website, im not sure who you are but you think you some big shot badass. Its really getting old.

I like how you change your plan of attack, Cheers bro, Have a safe season and happy holidays!

I hope one day you can learn to be civil and not so bitter.


----------



## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

4evergreenlawns;676233 said:


> ON EDIT- I forgot to add I do know someone that is a route supervisor for Valley and on this site so I am sure you both know each other but he does not have any of the kewl data you have.
> 
> Ron G.


Well then i guess im one of the special route supervisors then!

Its isnt hard to count trucks and loaders 1..2...3....4....etc

And why is salt usage such a secret???? Sheesh dude, get off your high horse before some on knocks the legs out from under ya, the fall might hurt!


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

stroker79;676242 said:


> Yep he is a friend of mine and I am subbing for them and know them all very well.
> 
> I did not put out any information that isnt on thier website, im not sure who you are but you think you some big shot badass. Its really getting old.
> 
> ...


Hey Doug,

Not sure what you meant about on edit about your reply not being valid.

I am not that hard to find. I am not some big shot. I do like to know where people get their numbers from that is all. When I post something I am ready to stand behind what I say. Maybe I misunderstand the meaning of WE or how it was used. I like to have good data. If someone is posting information that seem out of sorts I ask about it becuase maybe they are doing something differently than others and I can learn from that. No real plan of attack just an inquiry.

Truth be known Eric has met me (just ask where he gets his blizzard repaired running a 8611- 1500lbs plow on a F-450 and blowing out the front end) and even has talked directly to my face asking questions about how I do business, but he acts as if he has no idea who I am. That seem odd compared to anything I post here.

I realize when someone is asking questions people can become threatend but how my posts are being received is more about the person reading and less about what I am asking based on the type of replies.

So if you ever have some spare time on your hands and would like to know what kind of person I am in person I am not that hard to find. My phone number is all over all the truck pictures I post here and my shop/yard space is in Elgin. Give me a call and stop by sometime you would most likely be shocked to know what other contracotrs that do business with me think.

Ron G.


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

stroker79;676246 said:


> Well then i guess im one of the special route supervisors then!
> 
> Its isnt hard to count trucks and loaders 1..2...3....4....etc
> 
> And why is salt usage such a secret???? Sheesh dude, get off your high horse before some on knocks the legs out from under ya, the fall might hurt!


Doug,

WOW, I totally forgot your are the CLASSY LAWNS guy. Getting all those new accounts next season adding trucks all that. You would think with all the greens work you have you might have some snow accounts of your own to service.

Well now I am for sure you know my trucks and the next time I see you around here in Elgin/South Elgin or where ever, I will be sure to stop and introduce myself or you could do the same. I am sure you are not one of them guys that would just drive by and not stop if you saw my truck stopped somewhere. That would be truck #7 the black F-350 with FOREVER GREEN LAWNS, INC on the doors, its the service truck that I drive.

Look forward to meeting you.

Ron G.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

4evergreenlawns;676292 said:


> Doug,
> 
> WOW, I totally forgot your are the CLASSY LAWNS guy. Getting all those new accounts next season adding trucks all that. You would think with all the greens work you have you might have some snow accounts of your own to service.
> 
> ...


Not sure why your all over Doug, he never said anything bad or wrong. Most people on this site know he's subbing for a very large company because he started a thread looking for subs for this company and he's said numerous times that he subs. I think maybe you should step down off your high horse, you seem to be the one that has to list every broom and shovel in his sig to show what a big man he is. JMO


----------



## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

JD Dave;676358 said:


> Not sure why your all over Doug, he never said anything bad or wrong. Most people on this site know he's subbing for a very large company because he started a thread looking for subs for this company and he's said numerous times that he subs. I think maybe you should step down off your high horse, you seem to be the one that has to list every broom and shovel in his sig to show what a big man he is. JMO


JD & Doug I dont think he is on a horse I think he is the DONKEY


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

JD Dave;676358 said:


> Not sure why your all over Doug, he never said anything bad or wrong. Most people on this site know he's subbing for a very large company because he started a thread looking for subs for this company and he's said numerous times that he subs. I think maybe you should step down off your high horse, you seem to be the one that has to list every broom and shovel in his sig to show what a big man he is. JMO


JD,

I asked a question about the numbers and equipment why again, with the high horse?? I never implied anything bad or wrong was said and when he listed the parent company I acknowledged them and gave them credit.

FYI, not everything I own is in my sig line, there is just not enough room. It has taken time to hard work to get what I have and if that makes me a arse I guess anyone that grows their company from hard work and lessons learned is just as big of an arse.

To be honest I do not take attendance here. I just read a post and reply. I have no real interest in personal relastionship here I just like getting information from those that have it when I can be sure it is creditable. So again, if the information seem out of sorts I ask for details. Do you not want to know the information you are getting is correct or was there a 0 added or comma misplaced?

In return I do the same with the information I have, if I can support it from my experiences. As I know you did the same in many a threads here. However, I guess from what you are saying anytime you post something about your experience as to hours taken to plow, or how much snow a loader can move and so on it is show how big of a man you are??? I really do not think so. When you refute what others post are you doing it from your high horse too??? Misinformation is a tactic for defeating competitors for years. I find much of your information to be valuable and FWIW based on reading what you post over the last couple of seasons, if these guys were doing business in your market you would be looking at things much differently.

On a business level hard for you to know what is really going on in the Chicago area just from reading what is posted. As if I could say I know what is going on in Canada from what I read on the internet. Wouldn't you agree?

Really not sure why some many people take inquires about the industry personal. If someone is sharing information why become so defensive about giving details. Don't you get pissed when you hear someone in your market stating they can do something you know they can not?? It impacts the industry as a whole.

Ron G.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

4evergreenlawns;676292 said:


> Doug,
> 
> WOW, I totally forgot your are the CLASSY LAWNS guy. Getting all those new accounts next season adding trucks all that. You would think with all the greens work you have you might have some snow accounts of your own to service.
> 
> ...


Ok sorry if I thought this post was you being on a high horse, my mistake. I just call things the way I see them and Doug to me has always been very honest in what he posts and he has gone out of his way for me a few other members on here so of course I'm going to stand up for him.


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

JohnnyRoyale;675179 said:


> What is SD chargin delivered? We get ours from Draglam at $72 a tonne.


We are getting it from SD for $73 and from Canadian for $71, those are both delivered. I got Clearlane from Cargill last week for $84.69 delivered.


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Slicer is going to cost me $150.00 FOB. So I am guessing at about $165.00 after freight and tax. 

Ron G.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

4evergreenlawns;676445 said:


> Slicer is going to cost me $150.00 FOB. So I am guessing at about $165.00 after freight and tax.
> 
> Ron G.


What is Slicer? Never heard of it.


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

I am sure it is the same as Clearlane just by a different name. Bulk salt treated with Liquid Mag. looks green I think it comes from Morton maybe not sure. But for $15.00 upcharge per ton I think it is well worth it. 

Ron G


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

4evergreenlawns;676482 said:


> I am sure it is the same as Clearlane just by a different name. Bulk salt treated with Liquid Mag. looks green I think it comes from Morton maybe not sure. But for $15.00 upcharge per ton I think it is well worth it.
> 
> Ron G


I know what it is then, the funny part is we buy from Cargill and all our salt is barged in from the US and we are paying half of what you guys are, I don't undersatnd.


----------



## tls22 (Sep 30, 2007)

Wow looks like a i need to take another RON G!



4evergreenlawns;676292 said:


> Doug,
> 
> WOW, I totally forgot your are the CLASSY LAWNS guy. Getting all those new accounts next season adding trucks all that. You would think with all the greens work you have you might have some snow accounts of your own to service.
> 
> ...


Pull you head out of ur Ares, because ur sh*t does stink! To me you sound like a blow hard, that is full of himself! Hows the brickman like uniform treating you? Perhaps its more profitable for Doug to work for valley, then to run his own show! It seems like your saying that if you own a landscaping business you should have your own plowing accounts? Thats a pretty bold statement! So you have to much equipment to list! Do you also look in the mirror in the morning and say i love you? I hope you dont treat your customers, the way you treat others online! (im sure your going to have some crazy year and say we have been making people happy since 1985) Do yourself a favor and come down from the clouds!

Do you think it was right to personally attack Eric on his own employee thread? To me thats very unprofessional, i doubt you would like someone doing that to you! You say your not looking for any friends online, yet throw a hissy fit when eric does not say hello online!
Grow up Ron, a attitude like that will not last long around here!


----------



## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

Ron,

In your second to last and even mostly you last reply had a very different tone than the first ones which is why I reacted like I did. I have no problem meeting and im a very easy going person but I sensed alot of sarcastic/aroggance in your other replies to me. We are all hear to learn grow, Im glad you take information from the site but you should also give if you do not. Any how, why I sub is for me to know and how my business runs is for me to know, I do not want to give out details and im not trying to sounds rightous but im far better off subbing in my current situation. I have looked out for your trucks a bunch of times but i seem to not see them. As you know we are in a huge metro area and unless schedules run about the same you can miss some pretty large companies on a daily basis. Maybe because I have not met you I dont know how to read you but the sarcastic part puts others on the defense including myself.

Also, I have 3 trucks, I never said I had any more than that and one is for sale. I am changing my accounts and territories around so Im only going to have 2 trucks a maintanance trailer and a dump trailer. 

I have nothing against you other than the way you project yourself onto other members here and it looks like it was my turn this go around. I hope to see/meet you eventually but dont be offended if I dont stop, my schedule is pretty tight during the green season.

Cheers and again Happy Holidays.


----------



## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

Oh and the post I edited was about the hours thing, I thought you were saying that you had 185 billed hours per event, you obviously saw my reply before I edited it. Because thats not what you were stating, I withdrew my comment is all.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

stroker79;676814 said:


> Ron,
> 
> In your second to last and even mostly you last reply had a very different tone than the first ones which is why I reacted like I did. I have no problem meeting and im a very easy going person but I sensed alot of ego/aroggance in your other replies to me. We are all hear to learn grow, Im glad you take information from the site but you should also give if you do not. Any how, why I sub is for me to know and how my business runs is for me to know, I do not want to give out details and im not trying to sounds rightous but im far better off subbing in my current situation. I have looked out for your trucks a bunch of times but i seem to not see them. As you know we are in a huge metro area and unless schedules run about the same you can miss some pretty large companies on a daily basis.
> 
> ...


Doug your a gentlemen.


----------



## tls22 (Sep 30, 2007)

JD Dave;676819 said:


> Doug your a gentlemen.


Agree! Doug ur a class act!


----------



## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

Thanks guys!


----------



## dieseld (Dec 30, 2005)

I know it is none of my business, but I am from the same area as Ron, and apparantly Doug. I personally know Ron and can say he is very good at what he does. He is a numbers guy and I think that is all it comes down to. He would love to talk business with any of you no matter what your snow region is. I have personally done so with him. I do not think he is after anyone on the site, but I believe he is just after more knowledge. I think he is like myself, after anyones opinion on how to do my job better, faster, and more profitable, all without sacrificing customer service. In closing, if you get a chance to meet him, go for it, he is very sharp. As they say, "can't we all just get alawn."


----------



## snowandgo (Oct 26, 2008)

My supplier has a short supply of bags @ $4.50/50#, is supposed to have a decent bulk supply @ $150/ton delivered + tax. Says they have plenty of blended bags and calcium bags @ $8.50 and $12.50.

All I know is I'm stocking up ASAP.


----------



## Vaughn Schultz (Nov 18, 2004)

4evergreenlawns;676266 said:


> Truth be known Eric has met me (just ask where he gets his blizzard repaired running a 8611- 1500lbs plow on a F-450 and blowing out the front end) and even has talked directly to my face asking questions about how I do business, but he acts as if he has no idea who I am.


Please leave me out of your petty games. The repair I was having was a new mount cause the bolts loosened up and I bent the mount. Look you dont like me and I'm not sure why but if your going to act like your in middle school please do it someplace else. It looks like your having some security issues and I'm sorry but putting others down is not going to solve anything. Once again please leave me out of your games, I have asked you before.

Cheers and Happy Holidays


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Vaughn Schultz;676887 said:


> Please leave me out of your petty games. The repair I was having was a new mount cause the bolts loosened up and I bent the mount. Look you dont like me and I'm not sure why but if your going to act like your in middle school please do it someplace else. It looks like your having some security issues and I'm sorry but putting others down is not going to solve anything. Once again please leave me out of your games, I have asked you before.
> 
> Cheers and Happy Holidays


Eric,

Thank you for admitting you do know who I am. I never realized who you were until just a few days ago. So sure I will leave you out of what I have to say here from now on and even put you on ignore after I post this. But when it come to the childish games I do think if you had something you did not like about the way I was doing business you would not have asked so many questions the day we were at the shop for several hours. In fact you engage me several time when I was talkign with someone else I have know and value as a business ower. He was the person I was visiting with but you did not aviod one chance to get into the conversation. Setting the record straight is all I care about. Just my view that if you are going to make someones aquantanace you would at least be man enough to mention that we had a conversation.

Best to you.

TLS22,

Not sure what your interests is in the chicago market but once again you clearly demonstrate you have much more interest in my company if you know about what type of uniforms my employees wear that I have in you. Again, I have not said one thing to you and all I have done here is ask some questions. Seems like you being a person that wants to give expert advice on all there is to know about the industry you could at least tell us more about where all that knowledge comes from. I state where my experience comes from before or during anything I post. Seem like the creditable thing to do. I would be gald to take you for a ride in one of my plow trucks when you ceom to visit look me up and you can say what you seem to be so passionate about to me in person. If you get my meaning. Other than that not sure why you think I might be goign somewhere on this site as you are the one making the personal attack with the type of things you post. What I post if nothing more that questions seeking information and I have replied to all in kind. With that you to will be placed on ignore so all your Taking a RON G comments will be wasted.

Best,


----------



## Midwest BuildIt Inc (Nov 14, 2004)

Ron needs to pull the plow marker out of his "...." lol


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

dieseld;676853 said:


> I know it is none of my business, but I am from the same area as Ron, and apparantly Doug. I personally know Ron and can say he is very good at what he does. He is a numbers guy and I think that is all it comes down to. He would love to talk business with any of you no matter what your snow region is. I have personally done so with him. I do not think he is after anyone on the site, but I believe he is just after more knowledge. I think he is like myself, after anyones opinion on how to do my job better, faster, and more profitable, all without sacrificing customer service. In closing, if you get a chance to meet him, go for it, he is very sharp. As they say, "can't we all just get alawn."


Thanks for your kind words. Most importantly is the value place on real customer service. Secondly is the value I place on knowing what is going on in the industry within the market I conduct business. That is what I think takes so many by surprise. Seems like questions I ask become personal based on what I am asking and focus is placed on context and not content.

Asking the right question of the right people is what makes a company profitable. Exploring all options and never thinking the company is doing good because of something you personally are doing but instead based on the processes you have in place explains how my mind works.

Ron G.


----------



## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

One of my local suppliers has bagged rock salt sold before it ever arrives. He was getting some in today and tomorrow, pretty much all spoken for already.


I picked up a pallet of the blended stuff I use (mag/cal/sodium....good to -20*) earlier.


----------



## jerry b. (Dec 14, 2008)

bridge577;673161 said:


> Wow I feel bad for you guys out there I'v been upset paying $90 per ton w/delivery. We've already went through 150 ton and restocked yesterday. And we haven't even really got into winter yet.


*I'm at about $90-100 per ton and so far so good with the supply. We'll see how it turns out later in the season. It is supposed to be kinda quiet here in NE Ohio for the next week or so and looks like December will not so snowy. November started out with a bang and then the mild weather hit in December. I have not used an over abundence of salt so far this year. We'll see how the rest of the season goes. *


----------



## kimber (Oct 27, 2008)

jerry b.;678156 said:


> *I'm at about $90-100 per ton and so far so good with the supply. We'll see how it turns out later in the season. It is supposed to be kinda quiet here in NE Ohio for the next week or so and looks like December will not so snowy. November started out with a bang and then the mild weather hit in December. I have not used an over abundence of salt so far this year. We'll see how the rest of the season goes. *


Are those direct from Cargill, or is that through someone else if you don't mind me asking?

thanks


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

4evergreenlawns;676409 said:


> JD,
> 
> I asked a question about the numbers and equipment why again, with the high horse?? I never implied anything bad or wrong was said and when he listed the parent company I acknowledged them and gave them credit.
> 
> ...


Gee Ron, still winning friends and influencing enemies.

Nice work.

Gotta love that take, take, take attitude as well. It's still ALL about the money, isn't it?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Back on topic, WE ordered another half a truck load of bagged product because WE were told that it will be in short supply soon. WE have gone through half a truck load already. That does not include what WE spread as bulk or what WE applied from OUR sprayers.


----------



## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

LoL 

Are We French We, we, we


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Superior L & L;678340 said:


> LoL
> 
> Are We French We, we, we


Wi, Wi Monsieur.

Or is it We We Monsieur.

Maybe Wee, Wee Monsieur?

Where's Neige when you really need him?


----------



## kimber (Oct 27, 2008)

4evergreenlawns;676409 said:


> JD,
> 
> I asked a question about the numbers and equipment why again, with the high horse?? I never implied anything bad or wrong was said and when he listed the parent company I acknowledged them and gave them credit.
> 
> ...


Truthfully, after reading your posts, I wonder why you are so aggressive in your line of questioning. I believe you could gain all the information you desire by asking the same question in a kind manner. The post in which you attacked the writer for stating the quantities of salt used made me wonder what motivated such an outburst. You could have questioned his facts and figures in a much more palatable way and avoided the collateral fallout that followed. An added benefit is that others would actually desire to hear what you have to say on different topics.


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Don't judge him, monkeys!


----------



## kimber (Oct 27, 2008)

TCLA;678358 said:


> Don't judge him, monkeys!


Fair enough. Judge not lest ye be judged.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kimber;678349 said:


> Truthfully, after reading your posts, I wonder why you are so aggressive in your line of questioning. I believe you could gain all the information you desire by asking the same question in a kind manner. The post in which you attacked the writer for stating the quantities of salt used made me wonder what motivated such an outburst. You could have questioned his facts and figures in a much more palatable way and avoided the collateral fallout that followed. An added benefit is that others would actually desire to hear what you have to say on different topics.





TCLA;678358 said:


> Don't judge him, monkeys!


If you know Ron, you know.

OR:

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. xysport


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;678374 said:


> If you know Ron, you know.
> 
> OR:
> 
> For those who understand, no explanation is needed. xysport


I caught his drift reading his "stuff", he uses too many damn words.

Just been waiting to use the line.........seems appropriate.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

TCLA;678390 said:


> I caught his drift reading his "stuff", he uses too many damn words.
> 
> Just been waiting to use the line.........seems appropriate.


I can't wait to see his reply.

Yup, sometimes it's fun to be one of the monkey's throwing the poop against the wall.


----------



## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

...and I thought when you said monkey's it was meant as pile on the monkey 

Honestly ... I just thought it was his style of typing and not really a specific attitude the is being conveyed. 


Non the less .....

How about resources for bagged material in Upper IL then .... Anyone know of any with material left?


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

scottL;678445 said:


> ...and I thought when you said monkey's it was meant as pile on the monkey
> 
> Honestly ... I just thought it was his style of typing and not really a specific attitude the is being conveyed.
> 
> ...


Scott,

Thanks for having an open mind and understanding what internet communication is all about.

Try ConserFS. I am having some bagged sidewalk material dropped today. Last conversation I had with Jeff Miller they were bringing in several 100 trucks loads from KY. Not sure how much you need. I am in Elgin not far from you and I have 14 pallets. Not sure how long I will be holding on to them based on what the market does. Wilson's is already up to $5.60 a bag, Russo near $5.00.

Ron G.


----------



## tls22 (Sep 30, 2007)

Im glad im not the only one that was taken back by his charming personality!


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Mark Oomkes;678337 said:


> Gee Ron, still winning friends and influencing enemies.
> 
> Nice work.
> 
> Gotta love that take, take, take attitude as well. It's still ALL about the money, isn't it?


Mark,

YES, it is all about the $$$$$. I have never hidden the fact that I want to make my business as profitable as I can by whatever means.

If you are not in business to turn a profit that it is not called running a business it is called a hobby. When the day comes that I sell my company and get back what I invested in time and afford no one here on the interent is going care. Maybe at that point I will be more interested in growing a circle of friends to enjoy a hobby to be decided upon later. However, the friends I do have know me for what I am and likewise, and worry little about my internet quarals.

FWIW, I do hope you are have a great and safe season. With the salt issues being what they are managing the snow business it not as much "FUN" as it use to be. Oh, and you had me at hello.:crying:

Best, Ron G.


----------



## jerry b. (Dec 14, 2008)

kimber;678318 said:


> Are those direct from Cargill, or is that through someone else if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> thanks


*Those prices are from my supplier, not directly from Cargill. *


----------



## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

scottL;678445 said:


> ...and I thought when you said monkey's it was meant as pile on the monkey
> 
> Honestly ... I just thought it was his style of typing and not really a specific attitude the is being conveyed.
> 
> ...


Ron already mentioned Conserv FS and Wilson's (just got a fax from them yesterday) you can also try Lesco/John Deere Landscapes, Town and Country, and Reinders to name a few more.

Not sure if you are looking for bagged rock salt or blends.


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

DCSpecial;678850 said:


> Ron already mentioned Conserv FS and Wilson's (just got a fax from them yesterday) you can also try Lesco/John Deere Landscapes, Town and Country, and Reinders to name a few more.
> 
> Not sure if you are looking for bagged rock salt or blends.


Last I heard from my Lesco/John Deer dealer in Elgin, can not keep stock and the back order is days if not weeks out. Just an FYI.

If you have to go retail the usual suspects seem to have pallets (depot, Lowes, Menards) for now, not sure on pricing.

Ron G.


----------



## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

Probably, I know in Late Nov. the Lesco/JDL in Mundelein had a bunch of rock salt and some Peladow in....didn't have any of their blends in though.
Haven't been to the Mundelein one since then and haven't checked the Gurnee one either. 
I know in the past the Gurnee location always seemed to have more stock than the Mundelein location...possibly less traffic?


I'll be at the Mundelein Lesco/JDL in the next few days to drop off a plate of cookies (I buy all my fert, weed control, etc.. from them) and I'll have to see if they have anything.


----------



## michigan salt (Nov 19, 2008)

*Salt salt*

We have bulk salt available for delivery. 40 Ton truckloads Call us @ 888-340-SALT. Can deliver to Chicago, anywhere in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio. Get a price quote. Check us out @ www.michigansalt.com Thanks guys.

We are #1 in customer service and satisfaction. Delivery in 24 to 48 hrs.


----------



## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

I read all 5 pages of this thread and boy, am I tired!!!!!! As to you Ron, sorry I don't know you, I call it as I read it, it is not what you say but how you say it. You write like you are arrogant SOB and a know it all, doesn't necessarily have to be true, just the way you post. It is easy to write in this fashion to people on the Internet, kinda like playing on-line porker, like porker but not the real thing. This thread did make for some really good reading!
Plowing snow in Chicago is a lot like their politics I guess, whats that guys name?


----------



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

John Mac;679336 said:


> I read all 5 pages of this thread and boy, am I tired!!!!!! As to you Ron, sorry I don't know you, I call it as I read it, it is not what you say but how you say it. You write like you are arrogant SOB and a know it all, doesn't necessarily have to be true, just the way you post. It is easy to write in this fashion to people on the Internet, kinda like playing on-line porker, like porker but not the real thing. This thread did make for some really good reading!
> Plowing snow in Chicago is a lot like their politics I guess, whats that guys name?


John,

Thanks for your honest words. I realize I come of as arrogant to those that know little about me. At times I have tried to change my writing style but kinda like old dog new tricks thing.

There are many here on the internet that have only ever seen what I type and NEVER met me in person or even taken the time to dial and phone when I offer my number. But they all seem to claim to know me.

As for knowing it all, well that is far from the truth and I do not ever think I posted anything to that effect although many claim I imply it. I will openly admit in business I do not lack confidence and it seems that helps me close deals.

There is much I know very little about and I am learning all the time. I seek out all type of industry training as I hate when you engage in a conversation with someone in the industry that knows nothing about what they are speaking. When I do open my mouth I try all I can to be sure what comes out is as accurate as possible based on what I have experienced.

In fact, I ask many questions and that is what seems to get me in the most trouble. When I ask question I usually follow it with a "this is what I know from my experience" mindset. Again a form of arrogance if it is assumed anyone asking a question is uninformed.

To the, "not what I ask how I ask it", well nonetheless, I ask questions and I often hear about the way I asked it. However, this only applies to the internet. When I am communicating in person I am often the one answering questions. Although I do not list the people I meet/met from the internet like it was some list of "who know who" I do know a few people and they would all tell you I would drop everything to offer a helping hand.

So FWIW, I like pushing the limits and getting everything I can out of my efforts and to do that you have to take chances and explore new things. Sometimes you see a person post something and you just know it is B/S. I am the guy to ask how is that possible. So the way I do it suxs and I guess that is all there is to it.

Thanks, a pleasure to have made your aquintance.

Ron G.


----------



## DODGE-BOY (Oct 28, 2008)

John Mac;679336 said:


> I read all 5 pages of this thread and boy, am I tired!!!!!! As to you Ron, sorry I don't know you, I call it as I read it, it is not what you say but how you say it. You write like you are arrogant SOB and a know it all, doesn't necessarily have to be true, just the way you post. It is easy to write in this fashion to people on the Internet, kinda like playing on-line porker, like porker but not the real thing. This thread did make for some really good reading!
> Plowing snow in Chicago is a lot like their politics I guess, whats that guys name?


In other words.....I would love to have you run my company for me, cause I know you would be up on the wheel and it would be very profitable but please let me do my own talking. JUST TELLIN IT LIKE IT IS, eh Ron? GO GET EM!!!!

You guys are just getting way too much snow up there. Give me what you have had and I would be hard to put up with too. I know where you are coming from with really not wanting to hear a bunch of SMACK. Always someone doing it bigger, better, longer, faster, cheaper, while not really doing it at all.


----------



## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

Ron, thats good enough for me. Pleasure is mine. I read a lot of BS on here all so. I just ignore most of it, as a matter of fact I hear a lot of BS every day from a lot of people, and other forums, I could spend way to much time and energy trying to be the BS police. This site has also been great for information and entertainment. The guy you were quizzing, was he BS'n? I don't know him either but it sounds like he was just talking about the quantity of material the company he works for uses, I could be wrong but do you really give a crap? The term " we" is used alot by many that really are not part of the "we" but that is common. I have over heard my employees call my equipment "theirs" many times. I just hope they take care of it like it is theirs, a feeling of ownership is good and I would never try a make the guy a BSr' in front of others or even on the internet, you gain nothing from it.


----------



## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

Dodge-boy, I bet Ron runs a good company and is profitable but no thanks. I am having to much fun running it myself, well except for collecting money, paying taxes, paying bills, paperwork, and having employees.


> Always someone doing it bigger, better, longer, faster, cheaper, while not really doing it at all


. 
How true.


----------



## DODGE-BOY (Oct 28, 2008)

Yea, it would be sickening to have to be hanging out in the Keys, or Cancun, or Phoenix all winter. Glad I'm here too, its 24 degrees with freezing rain right now. PARADISE!!!!


----------



## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

What the hell do you want all the sun and sand for? My wife goes in January to Florida and l get to stay home and enjoy. We are getting 4" to 8" by mornng so why go to bed? I don't need sleep I am to old for that anyways. Dodge, you can always put some salt down.


----------



## kimber (Oct 27, 2008)

michigan salt;679012 said:


> We have bulk salt available for delivery. 40 Ton truckloads Call us @ 888-340-SALT. Can deliver to Chicago, anywhere in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio. Get a price quote. Check us out @ www.michigansalt.com Thanks guys.
> 
> We are #1 in customer service and satisfaction. Delivery in 24 to 48 hrs.


Love the web page....


----------



## michigan salt (Nov 19, 2008)

*Thanks*

Thanks! I appreciate it. My buddy spent some time putting it together. He did a great job.


----------



## kimber (Oct 27, 2008)

michigan salt;679853 said:


> Thanks! I appreciate it. My buddy spent some time putting it together. He did a great job.


I don't know if you remember, we had a discussion a month or so ago. Nonetheless, maybe I should talk to you buddy about a web site for me....or was this just a favor type of arrangement. thanks


----------



## michigan salt (Nov 19, 2008)

Yep, I remember. I'll talk to him and see how busy he is.

How you been doing w/ your salt??


----------



## kimber (Oct 27, 2008)

michigan salt;679867 said:


> Yep, I remember. I'll talk to him and see how busy he is.
> 
> How you been doing w/ your salt??


Moving steadily. Our area has had no snow since before thanksgiving, so its been moving in dibbles and drabs, but as we speak the phone is ringing since we are finally getting some snow in our area...

hows yours doing?


----------



## michigan salt (Nov 19, 2008)

*Good*

Really good, shipping salt all over. Been busy. We still have about 25K tons at a secret location. Its nice salt, all the guys like it. A lot of people are running low. We have plenty for them.


----------



## kimber (Oct 27, 2008)

michigan salt;679889 said:


> Really good, shipping salt all over. Been busy. We still have about 25K tons at a secret location. Its nice salt, all the guys like it. A lot of people are running low. We have plenty for them.


Awesome...continued success. Lets stay in touch.


----------



## kimber (Oct 27, 2008)

michigan salt;679889 said:


> Really good, shipping salt all over. Been busy. We still have about 25K tons at a secret location. Its nice salt, all the guys like it. A lot of people are running low. We have plenty for them.


 You only allow deliver, right...isn't that what I remember? Secret Location...I love that (kinda like the bat cave...hahha) Thats awesome...continued success.


----------

