# ? on residential snowplowing



## 02Chevy (Feb 24, 2006)

How do you charge per push or for season? Because I have been thinking what would be the best way so i don’t loose money.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

The best is to have a mix of both. Then you cover yourself no matter what happens. Just make sure with the seasonal contracts to allow for that higher than average snowfall. There are several ways to do that, but the best would be to have a few per push sites in the vicinity and make sure all agree to the same trigger and the same method of measurement. Otherwise, you could have the seasonal one calling saying they want plowed while the per push one says it's not deep enough. It takes some fine-tuning, so expect a few glitches in the beginning.


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## 02Chevy (Feb 24, 2006)

Well how does this sound to you guys. I was thinking of haveing a set amount for a number of pushes like $100 for 10 puhses and when they run out they can eaither be charged per push or buy another set amount of pushes.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

$100 for 10 pushes? That's $10 per push. How long does it take for an average push? Up to you, but at that rate, I'd say about five minutes.

I've heard of this method being used frequently, but as a consumer I wouldn't go along with it. Basically, I would see that I'm the only one who stands to lose. If we have a below average year, you come out ahead. But, if we have an above average year, you're going to charge me for the pushes over the agreed on number. It just seems I'd be better off agreeing on a set price and pay for the pushes I get. 

What I do in the case of a seasonal is charge a few dollars more than it would cost the person for an average year, then offer to plow whatever falls over the trigger. So, let's say I'd charge $30 and we get what would amount to 12 pushes. That would be $360 for the winter. Then I'll say "For $400, I'll push anything over 3" in any one snowfall." Obviously if there are 20 3" snowfalls, you're going to come out the loser. But if you have five or six per push accounts in the same area you just changed the overall outcome. Then the trick is not to get scared off the same deal the next year.


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## westwind (Sep 14, 2005)

We offer every available contract option. Per time, seasonal price (based on 15 snowfalls), and Monthly (seasonal price divide by 5). Sometimes be plow more than 15 times sometimes we plow less. Call it snow insurance. We do not refund if we plow less, we also do not charge more if we plow more. After 10 years in this, it all averages out, our profits are still good.payup


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## Up North (May 4, 2004)

Contracts haven't caught on here yet, but what Mick says is a good rule of thumb. Try to have a mix of contracted jobs and per push, that way you're somewhat covered if you don't get snow, or covered if you get snowed under. I know some parts of the region are cheaper then others but if I had to do a driveway for $10 I'd be better off staying home with the plow off.

Buck


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

Contracts here are the only way driveways are done. We should not compare pricing. An average driveway here goes for $275-300. That is a 20x50. Drive in, 3 backblades push it up on the grass and leave. With a tight route you can easily do 10/hour. I have one driveway that is $2000 for the season but it takes me almost 20 minutes. You have to charge more to do the front walk, in front of the garage doors and other stuff if they ask for it. We generally push less then 3" snowfalls where some places have 3" triggers.

Pricing is not easy and takes experience.I would try to sell a lot of my customers on a seasonal contract. Over time you and the customer should equal out.


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## PORTER 05 (Dec 28, 2005)

if it is youre fisrt season, just bill them everytime you plow...once you get a handle on it and you know wats going on, then you can start doing the contracts and seasonal billing..+ $100, for 10 pushes???wat if it only snows 3 inches and the accounts trigger is 3 inches, so you only plow t once, that means youve plowed that driveway for $10??? plow doesnt hit the ground for anything under $30, and thats for a SMAAAAAAAAAL drive, average driveaway we do is about $50-$65 thats from 2 inches to 6 inches, then it gos up from there but im not getting into that...


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

only a SUCKER will do work without a contract


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> only a SUCKER will do work without a contract


Up North, "Contracts haven't caught on here yet", I know some parts of the region are cheaper then others but if I had to do a driveway for $10 I'd be better off staying home with the plow off.
Buck

I have had the same accounts for several years now and I have had only verbal contracts. I have never been screwed by a customer, I don't give then a reason to. "Contracts haven't caught on here yet"< Hear eather..
I think you will find a lot of people operate with only a verbal agreement.

I guess theres a lot of suckers plowing snow?? 
I thought that fishy smell was Buck??? :waving:


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

Farmer...are you being paid "per plow" or seasonal?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> Farmer...are you being paid "per plow" or seasonal?


 Per push, plow....

I see both sides of the seasonal contract debate.


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## Up North (May 4, 2004)

SnoFarmer said:


> I thought that fishy smell was Buck??? :waving:


Should have brought one of those 14" crappies and left it behind your seat last week....LOL!!

Although those one ton springs would have rattled that thing right up to the front and you'd have found it by the time you got home. 

Buck


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

roflmao:waving:


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

SnoFarmer said:


> Per push, plow....
> 
> I see both sides of the seasonal contract debate.


Its not a debate about seasonal vs per plow, not the direction i was headed.

Do you send out an invoice in the mail AFTER you do work or are you paid in advance?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I bill monthly. so, after we do the work.


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

wow... any idea of how much money your losing by offering INTREST FREE CREDIT?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

LOL, 

The electric co., water dept, cable co.,ect ect... none of them charge interest on the bill.
Are they suckers too?
I get to use the water and electricity and the cable for a whole month then pay. So, I'm holding there money too with out paying interest


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

How much are you LOSING by extending credit to your clients, without finance charges??? heres an example....IF you service 20 clients, at $100 each, on credit, once in the first week in december, you have extended $2000 worth of interest free credit. second week in december,one service, you are up to $4000. by week 3, with only one service, you are up to $6000. week 4 (one service again) you are up to $8000. invoices are sent which cost about 50.00 per billing period for paper, time, stamps, etc etc. you service on January 1st, you are now up to $10,050.00. and if you invoice after EVERY service you are up to $10,250. you service again on January 5th, you are now up to $12300. your payments should be in by now (did i say should be) but you've extended OVER $12 GRAND worth of INTEREST FREE credit. is this a smart business move? Not to mention, around January 15th, maybe you'll be recieving (did i say maybe) only $6,000 of that $12,300 that is outstanding. by the 15th of February, you are in the same boat again. by the 15th of March, in the same boat, again. so on and so forth...... this means, that huge interest free loan you handed out, becomes a rolling loan. it's never paid! by the time it's paid, it's out there again, as interest free credit! it's always out there. the snow removal buisness and the credit extending buisness are two different buisnesses. I dont loan money, and at my bank, they DO NOT plow snow.


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

SnoFarmer said:


> LOL,
> 
> The electric co., water dept, cable co.,ect ect... none of them charge interest on the bill.
> Are they suckers too?
> I get to use the water and electricity and the cable for a whole month then pay. So, I'm holding there money too with out paying interest


they charge late fees..... when your customer is slow paying, do you charge late fees? Or do you say...."well, thats ok, just send what you can, when you can"?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Nepsjay,

If I pulled that I would loose everyone of my customers or they would pay every time I serviced the property on the spot. There would be no chance for me to collect the finance charge.

Yes, I have a late fee for 30 days over due from receipt of invoice.
I have only used it ounce, I've been lucky.


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

if nothing else, this thread proves the differences in the attitudes people have geographically.


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## Up North (May 4, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> if nothing else, this thread proves the differences in the attitudes people have geographically.


Bingo. We tend to be pretty trustworthy in this neck of the woods and until someone proves to us they need to be handled differently then so be it. I have one customer that will be switched to "pay as I plow". In other words, they've proven to me that they don't ever intend on paying on time, therefore they will have to leave a check for me in the door or they won't get plowed out by me. I bill everything out based on NET 15 and I'm lucky to get check from them in 30 days, 2 weeks after the due date. I know that's not a big deal, but they also don't want me to plow until they call me first and then expect me to be there immediately after a snowfall regardless of my schedule. And if that is they're expectation, then I expect to be paid then and there. The rest of my customers usually have a check to me within a week after the invoices leave my door. Like Farmer said, here it'd be hard to get away with charging late fees, the plumber doesn't do it, the painter doesn't do it, etc.. Like you said, different area, different ways of thinking I guess.

So Neps, what rate do you charge for interest or are you paid up front for everything?

Buck


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

Up North said:


> So Neps, what rate do you charge for interest or are you paid up front for everything?
> 
> Buck


With my system, I dont have "late pays" or intrest. I only do seasonal contracts, no "per plows". with that in mind, I am either paid in full, up front, OR the contract will be split into 5 equal payments, first payment due october 15, 30 days before start of contract. So i have one months payment tucked away before having to drop the blade. As soon as the payment is late.... service is terminated till its caught up. I'm always one month "ahead" this way.


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## PORTER 05 (Dec 28, 2005)

i dont see the big deal, i do over 60 accounts , commercial, and residentail, we do 6 condos, and one church...the church, and condos always pay within 2 weeks of the bill being sent out, and the residentails are about 70 percent like that, the other have truoible, but i really dont mind if they take a little time, i mean they will all pay within 2 months, if i went around sending late fees , calling everyday, chasing $60 they would just fire me....


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

they would fire you? sounds like your customers are running the show there and NOT you......


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## cbelawn (Nov 15, 2004)

*Real buisness ethics*

Lets say you were a plumber, or heating contractor. Do you call everyone and say i will only come to fix your problom if you pay me up front 1 month before the problom exists?
i believe most companys that have a revolving charge account, my hardware store, and my parts supplier. ect, sent out a month bill. This is the way its done.
To expect eveyone to pay ahead will be your downfall when you run out of customers. I an gald i donot go through life with such a untrusting nature.
fyi. I send an invoice at the end of every month. and i get paid. Plain and simple.
peace


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

cbe, your buisness practices..........dont impress me. i do NOT run a "pay as you go", its more of a "PAY AS PER OUR AGREEMENT/CONTRACT". anyone who allows their clients to pay on THEIR terms, simply, does not have enough confidence, self-respect and self worth to INSIST his buisness be run on his terms. If there was a customer azz kissing contest, you would all be tied for first place.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Per push, 
Will you be there only way for removing snow?
Some home owners will remove the snow if they get 1" to 3" them selves.
Some will want you to be there to do all of it, from 1/2 inch up.
Regardless of what the trigger is. I would not plow any drive for under $35, no matter how small it is. Set a trigger depth so you are not waiting for them to call you.
$35 is the minn charge, it goes up quickly from there with the size of the drive and difficulty.
IE, where can you stack the snow is there a lot of landscaping to avoid is it a drive that turns is it straight?

Snowplowing can get expensive for the home owner. They get tight with the money when you get past mid winter. so,only having a seasonal contract may be a hard sell as spring approaches and the home owner does not need you. why will they pay you for not doing a thing?
If they pre-payed you this year and they didn't need or use your service much why would they want to pay money for nothing? They probably will not want to sign up for your service next year.
There are a dozens other plowers waiting in the wings for the opportunity to clear there drive.
What I'm trying to say is do you like paying money for something and not be able to use it? You would feel like your just throning money out the window.

I'm sure we will here from all of the guys that have seasonal contracts that will say that they made more payup if it does not snow. My Q. is how do you get them to sign up for next year?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> cbe, your buisness practices..........dont impress me. i do NOT run a "pay as you go", its more of a "PAY AS PER OUR AGREEMENT/CONTRACT". anyone who allows their clients to pay on THEIR terms, simply, does not have enough confidence, self-respect and self worth to INSIST his buisness be run on his terms. If there was a customer azz kissing contest, you would all be tied for first place.


 Sounds like you are on a power trip....

Nepsjay, you are in the service industry, not the banking / collections bizz.
I am not impressed with your extra hidden fees. That is bad practice. You will not retain many customers with your attitude toward them.
I, we have more confidence than you do in the service we offer. We do not demand they pay for nothing, being afraid they will not pay. You are not confident at all but afraid you will be stiffed. You make an feeble attempt to demand payment or you threaten your customers with an fine.

Why do you have this elaborate system to add interest and late charges when all you your customers pre pay?
Is it because your contract/ agreement can be easily broken?


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

snowfarmer, your buisness sence and wit never cease to amaze me.....YOU are the reason why customers walk over their service provider. I have said in the previous posts that i am NOT in the finance buisness. Thats why i DO NOT extend credit to customers. Please tell me what "hidden fees" your talking about. Late fees? because i DEMAND payment on time? A DUE DATE is just that, its not a mere suggestion. If a payment is made with the acception of the late fees, the account is treated as an UNPAID account. As far as customer retention, no problem, because i show up ON TIME and do an acceptible job. sure, ive lost a few customers over the years, some have came back because of the ON TIME service, but ive gained way MORE than I lost.


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> With my system, I dont have "late pays" or intrest. I only do seasonal contracts, no "per plows". with that in mind, I am either paid in full, up front, OR the contract will be split into 5 equal payments, first payment due october 15, 30 days before start of contract. So i have one months payment tucked away before having to drop the blade. As soon as the payment is late.... service is terminated till its caught up. I'm always one month "ahead" this way.


snofarmer, what an appropriate name, what "elaborate" system are you talking about for adding intrest and charges as the above was my previous post above??
If you are going to make random posts with that make
little or no SENCE, at least read all the posts before you comment. Good day..


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## KCB (Jan 22, 2006)

Seasonal contracts/price is like insurance. I sure as sh!+ feel ripped of when I get my insurance bill. But when the sh!+ hits the fan, be it some jacka33 that rear ends you or 12 inches of snow in a customers driveway if you haven't paid you are up sh!+ creek without a paddle.

In the area I work every plower operates on seasonal price and a contract when doing residential.The customer has no choice. Do what works for you and your business.Im not out there working am a33 off in the middle of the night for the Joneses on good faith. When I roll up to their house and drop my blade (THUD) and back drag that sh!+ outta their way (SCRAPE!!) you better believe thats the sound of their money dancing a jig in my bank account.xysport


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> snofarmer, what an appropriate name, what "elaborate" system are you talking about for adding intrest and charges as the above was my previous post above??
> If you are going to make random posts with that make
> little or no SENCE, at least read all the posts before you comment. Good day..


Good day??? LOL!! I think you watch to much T.V.

Random post?? Read the first post!!!.

? on residential snowplowing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How do you charge per push or for season? Because I have been thinking what would be the best way so i don't loose money. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
So in my post #29 i was getting back non topic.

And what is a nepsjay ?? a purplebou lol....


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

you never did answer the question SNO.... what "HIDDEN" fees are you refering to???


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. snow removal companies and loan companies are two different buisnesses, Snow removal companies provides a snow removal service, FOR A FEE, and loan companies loan money FOR A FEE. how can they both be ONE in the same??


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

O.k. sell me...a contract nepsjay.
I'm a potential customer.

How do you approach me?
What is your sales pitch?
I'm trying to understand how you sell a contract and why the home owner would want to have a contract?


Nepsjay "I've said it before and I'll say it again. snow removal companies and loan companies are two different buisnesses, Snow removal companies provides a snow removal service, FOR A FEE, and loan companies loan money FOR A FEE. how can they both be ONE in the same??"

That is your hidden fee, you are going to charge them interest because they did not pay up front...


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

SnoFarmer said:


> That is your hidden fee, you are going to charge them interest because they did not pay up front...


Ah, the word game, i love to play the word game.....no farmer, THERE IS NO FINANCE CHARGE ABOUT IT. pay attention, cause you are so INSISTANT on using the words "finance charges", it isnt even funny. If I bid a driveway for $600.00 per year (i will use nice, round numbers for this example as you have a hard enough time following).....ok, $600.00 per year it is then divided into 6 equal monthly payments of 100.00, the first due on October 15. The 6 month contract period starts in november 15. this means i am 1 month AHEAD. when i go to my mailbox on the 16th of the month, and the mailman hasnt been good to me, i.e. no payment, the customers service is SUSPENDED till it is caught up and the late fees, AS STATED IN THE CONTRACT, are paid in full. I have policies, and you have policies, but its obvious that only ONE of us, sticks to our policies. as far as any sales "pitch", sorry, sir, there isnt any. i do NOT sell snow removal on a per plow basis. its seasonal or nothing.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

SnoFarmer said:


> O.k. sell me...a contract nepsjay.
> I'm a potential customer.
> 
> How do you approach me?
> ...


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

again, there is no sales "pitch". It is what it is. Word of mouth + minimal advertising = more than enough clients FOR ME. most ,if not all, new clients for this season have been REFERRALS. i cant tell you how to sell your products or services, you have to figure our what works for you. Someone calls, I will quote a set price, a seasonal one. It will not be an "estimate". my numbers do not flex. its that simple. There is nothing fancy i "offer". You, sir, probably offer more services than i. I dont offer any shoveling, snow blowing or anything like that. just an acceptable job, done in a timely manner, and paid for in advance.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> again, there is no sales "pitch".i cant tell you how to sell your products or services, just an acceptable job, done in a timely manner, and paid for in advance.
> I was not asking you to show me how to sell. Answer my Q.
> 
> O.k. sell me...a contract nepsjay.
> ...


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

address? when i get there what do i see?


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

IF you call in the fall, and IF your address is along my route, and IF i have an open slot, I MIGHT let you on my schedule, on a seasonal contract basis. if you are calling for a one time plow, sorry, we dont do it, call someone else. what is so hard to understand about this??


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> address? when i get there what do i see?


o.k. I'm not asking for a bid or how much you charge.
But, How do you sell it to them?. How does your contract/agreement work.
How do you sell a prepaid contract. 
Why do I want to pay you in-advance for plowing. I do not know you form the next guy. You may take the money and run. You do not trust your customers to pay you why should they trust you?

NEPSJay "only a SUCKER will do work without a contract"

Soooo, you must have the answers there Nepsjay, so please enlighten us

Never mind, eather you can't answer my Q. or you woun't.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> cbe, your buisness practices..........dont impress me. i do NOT run a "pay as you go", its more of a "PAY AS PER OUR AGREEMENT/CONTRACT". anyone who allows their clients to pay on THEIR terms, simply, does not have enough confidence, self-respect and self worth to INSIST his buisness be run on his terms. If there was a customer azz kissing contest, you would all be tied for first place.


So, the same goes for Up North, porter05, and myself?
All of us are over 40 you are 28yrs old. 
To sit there and say what you did shows you do not know what you are talking about.
You demand payment up front because you are not confident.
I do not want to be paid until my customer is satisfied. I stand behind my work and I let it speak for it's self. I am confident that I will get paid by my customers.

You are in the SERVICE industry. like others have said:
"Lets say you were a plumber, or heating contractor. Do you call everyone and say i will only come to fix your problem if you pay me up front 1 month before the problem exists?"

" the plumber doesn't do it, the painter doesn't do it, etc.."

A word of advice. 
The customer is the BOSS!!! You work for them. They are the ones who pay you, don't ever forget that. 
Remember, You work in the service industry.

p.s. You too will learn how to kiss some ass, if you want to make it in this business that is. You nepsjay, will even learn to be good at it, lol with some practice.


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

SnoFarmer said:


> o.k. I'm not asking for a bid or how much you charge.
> But, How do you sell it to them?. How does your contract/agreement work.
> How do you sell a prepaid contract.
> Why do I want to pay you in-advance for plowing. I do not know you form the next guy. You may take the money and run.


chances are you DO know me from the next guy, because, someone referred you. average contract is 2" trigger+salt. some more, some less. it is a LEGAL BINDING contract, written on company stationary, not on the back of a taco bell napkin. my system may not work in your geographic area. why? because the rest of the gypsy plow operators offer and ALLOW "per push" services. most plow operators are NOT buisnessmen. fact is, most have full time career in a different field and take to the plow for an "extra couple of bucks". KCB said it in his above post, in his area, every plow company prices per SEASON. as far as paying in advance, well, lets just say noone WANTS to pay their bills. people pay their any of their bills out of FEAR. fear of collection companies, bad credit ratings, court judgements, etc, etc. there are lots of services YOU PAY FOR IN ADVANCE. heres an example, when you go on vacation, and fly on a commercial airline, do you pay the airline or travel agent before you get on the plane or after you landed at your destination safely? before.....but why? you dont know the pilot or ticket agent from adam. how do you know is he's not crash? MY billing system is the same principal. they are both services offered to customers, paid for in advance.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> heres an example, when you go on vacation, and fly on a commercial airline, do you pay the airline or travel agent before you get on the plane or after you landed at your destination safely? before.....but why? you dont know the pilot or ticket agent from adam. how do you know is he's not crash? MY billing system is the same principal. they are both services offered to customers, paid for in advance.


You, like many of us are 1 to 3 truck operations. 
We are all small time operators. 
Stop comparing yourself with the airline. your playing field is much smaller.

Very few families or single People for that matter live solely on income from plowing to pay the bills. What do you do, and in the summer? Do you have a wife? Does she work?


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

SnoFarmer said:


> A word of advice.
> The customer is the BOSS!!! You work for them. They are the ones who pay you, don't ever forget that.


my boss? i dont think so. dont LOWER yourself to that level of thinking. a customer does NOT provide me with a paycheck, he pays a FEE. a boss is someone who tells an employee what time to punch in, what time to go home, what time to eat lunch, etc etc. when i go to a doctor, i pay a fee, but am i his boss?? i dont think so.... when a customer calls, i tell them WHEN the work will be done, WHAT work will done, and the FEE for the work. You people talk like you live in a town of 10 and 9 have snowplows....


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> my boss? i dont think so. dont LOWER yourself to that level of thinking. a customer does NOT provide me with a paycheck, he pays a FEE. a boss is someone who tells an employee what time to punch in, what time to go home, what time to eat lunch, etc etc. when i go to a doctor, i pay a fee, but am i his boss?? i dont think so.... when a customer calls, i tell them WHEN the work will be done, WHAT work will done, and the FEE for the work.


That last statement is so wrong.

Is you dad available to read what you just typed? If so you should show him this thread. If you are the man you say you are you will do just that.
But remember to duck as he goes to ***** slap you in the back of the head.

I am interested in selling them(res) on a seasonal contract a home owner is not dumb and they do not want to pay for 15 pushes up front when it only snows 8 times a month. So how do you retain them?

Nepsjay "my system may not work in your geographic area. why? because the rest of the gypsy plow operators offer and ALLOW "per push" services. most plow operators are NOT buisnessmen". quote.

so your saying is every one who plows per push, would fall into this category?

 You need to get some experience in life..


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## Up North (May 4, 2004)

Neps,
Why is it you can't just accept that someone chooses to run a business, successful business I might add, differently then you? You mention you don't extend credit...but yet you take a $600 seasonal contract and break it down into 6 payments...whether they pay that payment before or after the month is still extending credit. But who really cares?? You're happy with the way you run your business, we're happy with the way we run ours. There's many ways of running a successful business. Good luck to you & yours, I wish you many snowfalls.

Buck


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

sno, i'd love to show dad this thread, but since hes dead 16 years, thats not gonna happen. Yes i have a family, yes my wife works, yes i have bills, yes i do this FULL time in the winter, full time lawn care/landscaping in the summer.

Buck, 
I have no problem accepting his, yours, or anyone elses buisness practices. Their ideas dont work for me and mine dont work for you. no biggie. We were using this site for what it was intended.... sharing ideas, opinions, thoughts, etc etc. and having fun at it as well ( at least i was)


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> sno, i'd love to show dad this thread, but since hes dead 16 years, thats not gonna happen. Yes i have a family, yes my wife works, yes i have bills, yes i do this FULL time in the winter, full time lawn care/landscaping in the summer.
> 
> Buck,
> I have no problem accepting his, yours, or anyone elses buisness practices. Their ideas dont work for me and mine dont work for you. no biggie. We were using this site for what it was intended.... sharing ideas, opinions, thoughts, etc etc. and having fun at it as well ( at least i was)


 LOL!... I have to agree with you on that Nepsjay!!!
I'm not sure we want to make a habit out of itlol


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Neps, Give it up dude. SNOWS a troll and he openly admits it. He enjoys messing with people here. He see's things only his way. You will never be right (in his eyes) , even though your right !!! LOL prsport 

Todd


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

T-MAN said:


> Neps, Give it up dude. SNOWS a troll and he openly admits it. He enjoys messing with people here. He see's things only his way. You will never be right (in his eyes) , even though your right !!! LOL prsport
> 
> Todd


T- baby give it a rest... You are twisting what I said. I never said any of that. In my p.m. it was "sarcasm", I did not think you would understand. 
Go read the other posts- 
t-baby is hung up on trying to find trolls.
I will post the pm you are referring to if you would like. It will prove you are lying.
But I see here you have no problem changing the subject here ..

get over it:waving:

Sorry for getting sucked in and taking this way off topic this will be my last post censuring T-baby here is the P.m. he is refering to.

SnoFarmer 
Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North East Minnesota
Posts: 1,079

Re: Squeek Squeek

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I asked a Question.
It does not make any sense that a diesel does not have wheel hop and a gasser does?

:[/quote]

Lighten up Francis,
you never answered my question as well (not that you could anyway). 
Todd[/quote]

The D.I. that said that caught a bullet!!! 
Anyway T-baby, I asked mine before you came up with your Off Topic Q. and you never answered mine, so the line"(not that you could anyway)" back at YA!!. Anyway, why do you care what I think? As you say, I don't even plow and that I'm a troll?
so, Suck it up t-baby. Your just a cowboy plow jockey on Bare back MT. LOL,

It has been fun getting your goat, but your To dumb to respond intelligently. You have to resort to swearing and changing the subject.
It is obvious you can not plow with the big dogs so get your candyass back on the porch...

Once again, i apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

SnoFarmer said:


> T- baby give it a rest... You are twisting what I said. I never said any of that. In my p.m. it was "sarcasm", I did not think you would understand.
> Go read the other posts-
> t-baby is hung up on trying to find trolls.
> I will post the pm you are referring to if you would like. It will prove you are lying.
> ...


Lighten up Francis,
*you never answered my question as well (not that you could anyway). 
Todd[/quote]*
The D.I. that said that caught a bullet!!! 
Anyway T-baby, I asked mine before you came up with your Off Topic Q. and you never answered mine, so the line"(not that you could anyway)" back at YA!!. Anyway, why do you care what I think? As you say, I don't even plow and that I'm a troll?
*so, Suck it up t-baby. Your just a cowboy plow jockey on Bare back MT. LOL, *
*It has been fun getting your goat, but your To dumb to respond intelligently. You have to resort to swearing and changing the subject.**

IF THIS IS NOT A TROLL PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME MODERATORS

It is obvious you can not plow with the big dogs so get your candyass back on the porch...*
*Once again, i apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.[/QUOTE]*

HA HA SNOW farm- 
Clowns like you ruin these forums. You ADD nothing of value to any of your posts. You (SNO-FARMER) argue with everyone here. 
You are one sided on everything. 
I'M SORRY I CAN NOT TECHNICALLY EXPLAIN HOW A DIESEL WILL PUSH MORE SNOW MORE EFFICIENTLY,AND QUICKER THEN A GASSER BUT IT IS TRUE !!! AND YOU KNOW IT !!!!!!

AS FAR AS SEASONAL GO YOUR A FOOL !!! IF YOU THINK THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS TO DO THINGS ONLY YOUR WAY "ALLWAYS", PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS !!!
THIS GUY MAKES MONEY PRE SELLING WORK AND YOU CHASTISE HIM FOR IT ???? THEN YOU DRAG HIS DECEASED FATHER INTO IT ???? GREAT !!
WHAT THE FRIG ???? OH YOUR NOT THE AIRLINES, THATS A CUTE COMEBACK 
THEN HE NEEDS TO EXPLAIN HOW HIS SYSTEM WORKS, BECAUSE YOU AND ONLY YOU DONT BELIEVE HIM AND CAN NOT FIGURE IT OUT ???

FOOLS LIKE YOURSELF WHO SPEW CRAP ABOUT HOW YOUR THE BEST PLOWER /SALESMAN / LOGGER/ SEALCOATER/ FARMER/MECHANIC AND WHAT EVER ELSE YOU DREAM UP AT THE MOMENT IS SICK !!!
RIGHT "BIG DOG" ??????

THE BEST PART IS YOU ALLWAYS POINT FINGERS LIKE A 2 YEAR OLD, YOU DIDNT ANSWER MY QUESTION SO IM NOT ANSEWER YOURS !!!! NA NA NA NA NA NA

WHY ?? BECAUSE YOU CANT ANSWER MOST OF THE QUESTIONS SO YOU SPEW CRAP!!!
YOU STILL NEVER ANSWERED HOW YOUR LIL GASSER WOULD PUSH MORE SNOW WITH NO WHEEL HOP JUST AS FAST AS THE DIESEL WITH THE 10' PLOW RIGHT??? 
YOU CANT DO IT AND YOU KNOW IT, SO YOU DUCK AND HIDE BEHIND SMART ASS T-BABY CRAP COMMENTS TO GET MY GOAT !!!! WAY TO GO SNO !!!!
THAT SURE IS USEFULL TO THESE FORUMS.

YOUR RIGHT YOU HAVE FUN TRASHING POSTS ALL OVER THIS PLACE.
I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOU ACTUALLY POST SOMETHING USEFULL SOMEDAY .
IT IS UNBELIEVABLE THE MODERATORS LET YOU POST YOUR STUPID CRAP LIKE YOU DO, ADDING NOTHING OF VALUE TO ANY OF YOUR POSTS.

YOU FIGHT WITH EVERYONE HERE, ANY ONE ELSE NOTICE THIS PATTERN ????
IT SURE IS FUNNY HOW EVERY TOPIC YOU POST ON ENDS UP IN A CAT FIGHT WITH SOMEBODY ELSE.

THIS IS CALLED A "TROLL" ON FORUMS, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT SUCH AN OUTSPOKEN PERSON AS YOURSELF WOULD KNOW THAT.
I HAVE NO DESIRE TO CHASE TROLLS LIKE YOURSELF SNO, JUST GET SICK OF EVERY TOPIC BEING RUINED BY YOU !!!

Sorry to everyone for once again blowing a gasket. The thread was ruined before I jumped in. 
Its pretty obvious Snofarm enjoys bickering with everyone here and I just get tired of it.

Todd


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> IF you call in the fall, and IF your address is along my route, and IF i have an open slot, I MIGHT let you on my schedule, on a seasonal contract basis. if you are calling for a one time plow, sorry, we dont do it, call someone else. what is so hard to understand about this??


If the guy meets the first 3 criteria what else does he have to do, bring you a coffee when you show up?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

All that anger... and you post this drivel in nother post that has nothing to do with you. and I'M the troll??? Here is an nother pm from T-baby

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey you win. 
Your right, Im wrong. I stated I would not **** up the thread any longer seeing who can piss further. 
Your right wheel hop is created from over accelerating because the trucks engine can not get the squeeky wheel moving. The diesel does not have this problem at all. 
What gasser were you specing for those torque numbers ? 
The Cummins is 610 not 450. 
Todd
_
And this oneLighten up Francis,
ya got your digs in as well. People really dont give a ****. No one is hiding, and you never answered my question as well (not that you could anyway). Post what ya like, read the rules here Mo. Personal pissing matchs should be handled in pm's. 
The torque rating of 610 came from the same sales flyer. 
Todd
__________________

You sure change your mind a lot. But, you will f-up this one?? and thats o.k. Like you said personal pissing matches should be handler in P.M.s T-man must stand for troll-man...

What does this all this accomplish but to Hijack a thread that had nothing to do with that? Get over it,,,,,I'll just have to put you on my ignore list. Go back and reread all of the posts T-troll at the end we
(NepsJay & I) shook hands.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> my boss? i dont think so. dont LOWER yourself to that level of thinking. a customer does NOT provide me with a paycheck, he pays a FEE. a boss is someone who tells an employee what time to punch in, what time to go home, what time to eat lunch, etc etc. when i go to a doctor, i pay a fee, but am i his boss?? i dont think so.... when a customer calls, i tell them WHEN the work will be done, WHAT work will done, and the FEE for the work. You people talk like you live in a town of 10 and 9 have snowplows....


The customer is not your boss, they're your employer. How do you retain clients with this attitude? Are you a status symbol in your town? Do people line up at your door with applications to become your client so they can tell their neighbors "NEPSjay plows my snow" while the young girls swoon? My customers tell me what work they want done, and the time frame they expect it in, I set the cost and payment structure, if we agree to mutually satisfactory terms I go to work for them. We would not exist if not for the customer. If I had that despotic an attitude toward my customers, I would be sitting home waiting on the unemployment check.


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## NEPSJay (Jan 15, 2004)

basher said:


> The customer is not your boss, they're your employer.


Ah..... more word games......Well if thats the case, then i will have to stop servicing ALL my clients (um..."employers"). I will have to notify them that i cannot be their "employee" any longer until they, comply with various local, state, federal regulations. I will tell them that they MUST pay my workmans comp ins, they MUST prodive me with the proper protection equipment, such as earplugs, safety glasses, back brace, etc etc, they MUST be responsible for any injuries i encounter, they MUST keep accurate records of my times, they must give me time to take lunch breaks, smoke breaks, they must provide me with adequate restroom facilities, they MUST pay time and a half for anything over 40 hours, they MUST have OSHA and employment law posters on their property (in my plain view). the list goes on and on.... any advice on how to tell them???


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## WOOFSPLOW (Sep 17, 2003)

cet said:


> Contracts here are the only way driveways are done. We should not compare pricing. An average driveway here goes for $275-300. That is a 20x50. Drive in, 3 backblades push it up on the grass and leave. With a tight route you can easily do 10/hour. I have one driveway that is $2000 for the season but it takes me almost 20 minutes. You have to charge more to do the front walk, in front of the garage doors and other stuff if they ask for it. We generally push less then 3" snowfalls where some places have 3" triggers.
> 
> Pricing is not easy and takes experience.I would try to sell a lot of my customers on a seasonal contract. Over time you and the customer should equal out.


I'm moving to Ontario!


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

NEPSJay said:


> . any advice on how to tell them???


Nicely

Well technically you're contract labor and therefore responsible for all the administration procedures. 
But my point is we're (or at least I'm) in the business of providing a service for pay. We need to satisfy the customer's needs as well as our own. The customer has greater needs, the customer has a higher bill. 
I don't argue chasing money is a hassle, all my residential drives are on contract, by the push, based on depth, billed to a credit card number I have on file, I never chase my money. And I agree no unknown, one time drives, never worth the money. I like to see the drive before it's covered with snow. I want a contract signed so the scope of work, the limits of liability, and cost of service are clearly defined. But I always talk nicely, never take a "my way or no way" attitude, even if I know I'm going to walk away and never be back.


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