# Western Wideout intermittent issue



## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

I have a 2014 Western WIdeout on a 2015 GMC 2500HD that just started acting up. The plow would not respond to the controller intermittently. The power light and the float light stay on but the plow does not respond. Seems to do it mostly when I push into a pile without raising as I do. When it happens, if I toggle the right angle it generally responds after a coupe of seconds. Seems to be getting worse. Took it into the shop to test it and it runs perfectly (of course - guess it likes the warm shop!). Can't test what doesn't show up. Took it outside and after a bit started again. Took it back into the shop and of course it runs perfectly Wondering if I should keep a controller handy the next snowfall. Any ideas?


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

That’s what I would do - new controller


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

southriverfarms said:


> I have a 2014 Western WIdeout on a 2015 GMC 2500HD that just started acting up. The plow would not respond to the controller intermittently. The power light and the float light stay on but the plow does not respond. Seems to do it mostly when I push into a pile without raising as I do. When it happens, if I toggle the right angle it generally responds after a coupe of seconds. Seems to be getting worse. Took it into the shop to test it and it runs perfectly (of course - guess it likes the warm shop!). Can't test what doesn't show up. Took it outside and after a bit started again. Took it back into the shop and of course it runs perfectly Wondering if I should keep a controller handy the next snowfall. Any ideas?


You say the float light stays on - does it stay on even if you press "up"?


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

cwren2472 said:


> You say the float light stays on - does it stay on even if you press "up"?


Yup. Stays on no matter what I push. I can still plow with it but the problem is getting more frequent and I don't want to be caught in the middle of a storm with no plow. I can keep a module on hand in the shop and a controller with me if needed (and wise).


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

southriverfarms said:


> Yup. Stays on no matter what I push. I can still plow with it but the problem is getting more frequent and I don't want to be caught in the middle of a storm with no plow. I can keep a module on hand in the shop and a controller with me if needed (and wise).


I'm 98% sure it'd be a control issue then - the 2% uncertainty is because I can't recall if the plow side module could cause it to stay stuck in float like that but I don't believe so.


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Like c said my bet would be the controller


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

Well then, new controller is ordered. Thanks for the advice. Calling for snow again this weekend and hopefully it is in by then and I can try it. Makes the most sense.
C, I have to tell you those diagnostic lists are the best. Easy to follow and so clear. Thanks for that!


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Let us know! Good luck!


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## bliz&hinikerDLR (Dec 30, 2011)

I know the Western wiring is routed different with the pump mounted up high but this is very similar to what would happen when the plow side battery/com cable of the PH2 Blizzards got pinched during stacking. There was not always a loss of communication (slow flash), sometimes the the plow would just not respond to the control. Long story short, make sure the main power cable isn’t being pinched when stacking.


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## bliz&hinikerDLR (Dec 30, 2011)

It's fun when a problem in this forum appears in the shop about the same time as the thread. So here's today's repair:
SnowEx HDV that would intermittently not respond to control. During the problem the control sometimes might slow flash but usually appeared normal. Unplugged plow from truck and ran on test box. Plow worked fine on test box using customers control. Truckside problem! Check & clean battery connections=ok. Problem still present. Isolate control circuit from headlight system & test= problem still present. Check control harness= found damaged 12v keyed power tap wire. Repair and test= problem still present. Remove and inspect vehicle battery cable. Found damage to communication wires due to abrasion. Replace vehicle battery cable & test=ok.
Hope this helps you find your problem!


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

bliz&hinikerDLR said:


> It's fun when a problem in this forum appears in the shop about the same time as the thread. So here's today's repair:
> SnowEx HDV that would intermittently not respond to control. During the problem the control sometimes might slow flash but usually appeared normal. Unplugged plow from truck and ran on test box. Plow worked fine on test box using customers control. Truckside problem! Check & clean battery connections=ok. Problem still present. Isolate control circuit from headlight system & test= problem still present. Check control harness= found damaged 12v keyed power tap wire. Repair and test= problem still present. Remove and inspect vehicle battery cable. Found damage to communication wires due to abrasion. Replace vehicle battery cable & test=ok.
> Hope this helps you find your problem!
> View attachment 200331
> View attachment 200332


It's for times like this I wish there was a port to plug in the controller out at the pump. Many times I have wanted to watch the plow for movement or leaks and it's hard to do from inside cab. This would also isolated out the wiring from the plow to inside the cab for testing.


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Thanks for the info!


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## bliz&hinikerDLR (Dec 30, 2011)

LapeerLandscape said:


> It's for times like this I wish there was a port to plug in the controller out at the pump. Many times I have wanted to watch the plow for movement or leaks and it's hard to do from inside cab. This would also isolated out the wiring from the plow to inside the cab for testing.


This harness works the valves and has an indicator LED to let you know when the motor would run.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

bliz&hinikerDLR said:


> This harness works the valves and has an indicator LED to let you know when the motor would run.
> View attachment 200338


So that would narrow it down if you thought you had a controller or truck side harness problem. It does not run the motor? So you cant see for sure what hose is leaking if its spraying all over 3 or 4 of them. It works on all fleet flex plows?


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

Also have the cable from the truck to the plow on order - noticed some issues there too - have to ziptie the cable looped tightly back to itself to keep the contact going. Otherwise the plow loses power off and on - very annoying. When I have it ziptied, the plow works perfectly except for the problem noted above. Hopefully stuff arrives today - before the snow tomorrow.


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## bliz&hinikerDLR (Dec 30, 2011)

LapeerLandscape said:


> So that would narrow it down if you thought you had a controller or truck side harness problem. It does not run the motor? So you cant see for sure what hose is leaking if its spraying all over 3 or 4 of them. It works on all fleet flex plows?


To some extent it can eliminate the truck. We use a "test box" to do that. For safety reasons the motor does not run using this harness. It will work for all Fleet Flex plows.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

bliz&hinikerDLR said:


> We use a "test box" to do that.


Pics or it didnt happen


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## bliz&hinikerDLR (Dec 30, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> Pics or it didnt happen


I would be embarrassed to post a pic of our battery with a vehicle harness, control harness & toggle switch in a plywood carry box when I know how much time and thought mishnick put into his test stands.


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## scottr (Oct 10, 2013)

Nice troubleshooting work Bliz&Hiniker, your always well thought out and insightful.


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

Well, got the new controller as well as a new light cable (the one to the lights through the grill). Installed the light cable as one high beam and the opposite low beam were not working. That problem is now fixed:clapping:. Got a few inches of wet heavy snow and took the truck out with the new controller in the box - maybe it was the light cable. Ran for about 1/2 hour and thought "Great, no problems, FIXED!" No sooner thought that and wouldn't you know it, the plow does not respond. Same problem. Okay, plug in the new controller and away we go. 15 minutes and dang it! plow does not respond:angry:. Finished the night plowing with plow occasionally not responding. Soon I will have all new wiring , etc. if this keeps up. Back to the drawing board........


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

So frustrating because I get it in the shop and try to get it to do it there and it runs perfectly. Pull out any more hair and there won't be any left*trucewhiteflag*


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

southriverfarms said:


> So frustrating because I get it in the shop and try to get it to do it there and it runs perfectly. Pull out any more hair and there won't be any left*trucewhiteflag*


I had the same issue on the same year wideout. For me it was the truck side power wiring that needed to be replaced. I had another controller/wideout that made it a bit easier to troubleshoot.


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Very helpful when you can hook up to another plow or truck!


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Western1 said:


> Very helpful when you can hook up to another plow or truck!


Very true. It was the two smaller wires (pins) within the truck side power cord. I measured ohms (resistance) on it and wasn't getting the same reading as the other plow. I believe those two wires go back to the controller...


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Yes those are the communication wires from controller to the plow module.


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

I replaced the truck side power cable last year so I don't think it would be that. I had a somewhat similar problem then but one of the symptoms was that the power light on the controller would blink signifying a communication issue which was traced back to the power wire. This time the light stays on, the down float light stays on but the plow does not react to any control. It makes a sort of light clunk noise and jerks a little that tells me it will move again. Not all the time but I noticed this the last time I was plowing. Makes me suspect a poor ground or a bad module. Can the module start to fail and give these types of symptoms ot does it completely fail when it goes? Just so strange that I can plow for hours with no problem and then it just goes off and on repeatedly for a while and then no problem again for a while.


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

Thanks everyone for the ongoing help, ideas and discussion. It is a forum like this that makes the problems easier to deal with.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

southriverfarms said:


> This time the light stays on, the down float light stays on but the plow does not react to any control.


So, as before, the float light is staying on even when you press up?



southriverfarms said:


> Can the module start to fail and give these types of symptoms ot does it completely fail when it goes? Just so strange that I can plow for hours with no problem and then it just goes off and on repeatedly for a while and then no problem again for a while.


Yes, it can fail only some of the time. As I mentioned earlier, I do not know the specifics of how the control and module communicate, so I do not know for sure if the module can cause that exact situation. But if it is definitely doing _the same thing_ with a new controller, it can only be the module.


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## chachi1984 (Feb 10, 2012)

Maybe you can barrow a plow module from someone or if you know your dealer well they can let you use one for a storm 

Take you plastic covers off the plow and check all the connections and fuses. I bought a wideout last year “that was acting up “ for cheap and the dealer they took it too said it was the module. 
I found lose wires on the solenoid and anywhere lose wire plus a blown fuse


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## bliz&hinikerDLR (Dec 30, 2011)

southriverfarms said:


> Also have the cable from the truck to the plow on order - noticed some issues there too ...


Was this the lighting harness? 11 pin from grill up to Truck side 3-port modules?


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

bliz&hinikerDLR said:


> Was this the lighting harness? 11 pin from grill up to Truck side 3-port modules?


Yup. That is the one. Noticed some abrasions on it. I had one low beam light out and the opposite high beam out so I could only drive with one headlight working. Replaced that cable and all lights working so that at least is fixed.


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

chachi1984 said:


> Maybe you can barrow a plow module from someone or if you know your dealer well they can let you use one for a storm
> 
> Take you plastic covers off the plow and check all the connections and fuses. I bought a wideout last year "that was acting up " for cheap and the dealer they took it too said it was the module.
> I found lose wires on the solenoid and anywhere lose wire plus a blown fuse


That was one of the first things I checked. I have run these plows for years and am pretty familiar with the general/common problems. I checked all the wiring and fuses. All connections good and clean - no green. All connections tight. Thought it might be a ground issue - ground getting corroded but they all seem to be good.


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

Well we got some snow. The new module has not arrived yet so I took her out without having changed anything. The only thing I did was check all the connections for poor contact or green gunk. As I said in my earlier post everything looked good. I must have tweaked something because I just finished 6 hours of plowing and she did not falter even once. Ran like a charm! I am still going to hang on to the module when it comes in just in case. We shall see if she has really smartened up or if she is just toying with me. Glad she ran good tonight though!:clapping:lowblue:


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

southriverfarms said:


> Well we got some snow. The new module has not arrived yet so I took her out without having changed anything. The only thing I did was check all the connections for poor contact or green gunk. As I said in my earlier post everything looked good. I must have tweaked something because I just finished 6 hours of plowing and she did not falter even once. Ran like a charm! I am still going to hang on to the module when it comes in just in case. We shall see if she has really smartened up or if she is just toying with me. Glad she ran good tonight though!:clapping:lowblue:


It was just waiting for you to spend money on a new module first.......


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

seville009 said:


> It was just waiting for you to spend money on a new module first.......


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

southriverfarms said:


> Well we got some snow. The new module has not arrived yet so I took her out without having changed anything. The only thing I did was check all the connections for poor contact or green gunk. As I said in my earlier post everything looked good. I must have tweaked something because I just finished 6 hours of plowing and she did not falter even once. Ran like a charm! I am still going to hang on to the module when it comes in just in case. We shall see if she has really smartened up or if she is just toying with me. Glad she ran good tonight though!:clapping:lowblue:


What was the temp when acting up, compared to the temp for the last storm?

It sounds like you have moisture in your fluid. Turns to little ice crystals in the system and hoses everything up. Telltale sign, acts up when it's cold out, bring it in to a warm shop the ice turns back into water and works perfect. Ice can cause valves (float) to stick open. If the last storm was warmer might not have froze up.


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## chachi1984 (Feb 10, 2012)

Check for and ram seal leaks and wouldn’t hurt to change filter and fluid 
One of my western older plow has nothing but problems with moisture the last few years. 
Changed the lift ram and seal and so far this year not a problem


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

Well, I figured I would give an update. I have not received the new controller yet so I could not replace the one on the plow. We got about 4 inches of wet heavy snow on Sunday. Went out Sunday night and plowed for about 8 hours and the plow did not act up even once. I have to assume that there was a connection somewhere that was giving an issue. I checked them all earlier and then again when I got the new controller (which didn't make a difference) and I must have "fixed" something. Anyway, glad to have it working properly again. Ready and confident to deal with more snow coming tomorrow night. Happy plowing all and thanks again for your comments, advice and suggestions.


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Good to hear


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

southriverfarms said:


> Well, I figured I would give an update. I have not received the new controller yet so I could not replace the one on the plow. We got about 4 inches of wet heavy snow on Sunday. Went out Sunday night and plowed for about 8 hours and the plow did not act up even once. I have to assume that there was a connection somewhere that was giving an issue. I checked them all earlier and then again when I got the new controller (which didn't make a difference) and I must have "fixed" something. Anyway, glad to have it working properly again. Ready and confident to deal with more snow coming tomorrow night. Happy plowing all and thanks again for your comments, advice and suggestions.


Glad it's problem free


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## southriverfarms (Jan 9, 2017)

Freshwater said:


> What was the temp when acting up, compared to the temp for the last storm?
> 
> It sounds like you have moisture in your fluid. Turns to little ice crystals in the system and hoses everything up. Telltale sign, acts up when it's cold out, bring it in to a warm shop the ice turns back into water and works perfect. Ice can cause valves (float) to stick open. If the last storm was warmer might not have froze up.


Each time it acted up it was just below freezing. We haven't had much cold weather here so far this winter. Fluid was changed before the season and I have had to add a bunch more a couple of time as one line to the wing ram was not tight and was leaking. Also, the motor does not engage for the pump when I push any of the buttons for any of the directions so I don't think the signal gets to the plow at all.


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