# This Year's Western Discussion



## Sean Adams (Jan 9, 2000)

Dear PlowSite Members,

One of our sponsors, *Western Products*, has created a discussion for the members of the site. Feel free to participate throughout the next week. The discussion begins at the next post (which will be made by a representative of Western Products) and will end on 11/30.

Last Year's discussion was fantastic and created a wealth of information. Enjoy this year's discussion as well - and be sure to thank Western for taking the time to contribute to the site. Without sponsors like Western we would have a very difficult time keeping this site alive.


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Western Forum*

Welcome!

Once again, Western Products has opened this forum to discuss any technical issues, as well as answer any product-related questions regarding our snow and ice control equipment.

We encourage any feedback you might have regarding new product requests/ideas and future improvements.

We will strive to answer all threads in a timely manner. We thank you in advance for your participation and look forward to your comments.


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## Frozen001 (Oct 20, 2004)

OK I have a 3 questions:

1) I have a new 8' pro steel blade plow with the ultra-mount system (which is great). I was wondering if there is a way to secure the blade when it is not on my truck. Where I live and will be storing it I cannot see it, and I just do not trust it.

2) My truck has Daytime Running lamps and when they are on the plow lights are much dimmer than I expected;is this normal?? If so what can I do to make them brighter??

3) I noticed (when I moved it the other day and did my final prep to it) there is some play when the blade is not fully angled right or left, it almost feels like there is air in the lines. The plow is new, and we have not had any snow yet so I have not used it at all. Will this work it way out??


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## PlowKid150 (Nov 3, 2003)

I also have an 8 foot pro plow with the ultramount. I am about to start my second operating seson with the plow, and it was stored indoors when not in use. My question is should i change the hydaulic fluid before plowing this year, or is it still allright? Thanks a lot.

Kevin


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## intlco (Nov 15, 2004)

I like your v-plow, but would prefer if it came with the option of have the old fisher conventional mount.
I don't like the ultra mount design. I prefer to leave lights and pump on the truck just like we do on big county trucks.

Also I would recommend that you introduce some new brighter snow plow lights, something like the new BOSS lights.


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to Frozen001*

First, thanks to all that post as well as your Western support. Second, to answer your questions:

1) Unfortunately, we currently do not offer a lock (or equivalent) for our UltraMount snowplows. We have and continue to look into possible ways for you to secure your blade when off the truck. In the meantime, I would suggest drilling a hole in the stand hook assembly, and lock it with a standard hitch pin lock. This would do the trick.

2) Although you did not specify, I am assuming that have the Isolation Module electrical system. And if in fact this is the case, then yes...it is normal that when your daytimes are on, your plow lights could be operating at a lower intensity. This is a common with the Isolation Module electrical system. However, if you switch from your daytime lights to normal vehicle headlight operation, you will regain full intensity on your plow lights.

3) Regarding possibly having air in your lines for your new plow, I suggest the following: Find a downward sloping surface (driveway, loading dock, etc.), and parking your truck down the slope, drop the blade, and angle the plow left to right to left, etc. while the blade is on the ground. This will work the air out of the lines. I also suggest that while you are angling your blade, pause 15 seconds at each angle. This will also help.


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Annual Snowplow Maintenance*

Kevin (aka PlowKid150),

Despite the fact that you were able to store the plow indoors during the "off-season," we still recommend changing the fluid every year. This helps remove any impurities that may have "crept into" the unit last season.


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## Frozen001 (Oct 20, 2004)

*WesternProducts*

Thanks for the responses. I have some ideas that I am going to explore on securing the plow. If I come up with at good idea I would like to share it with your company.

Thanks again!!


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to intlco*

intlco,

In response to your first comment, certain states require (by law) that the hydraulic unit, etc. be taken off the front of the truck when the plow is not attached. This, along for aesthetic purposes, was the basis for designing a mount system that when the plow is detached, the hydraulic unit, headlight gear, etc. is also detached from the truck.

Regarding a brighter plow light system, we are aware of a deficiency with the current light system, and have been working toward improving it.

Thank you for the post.


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## salopez (Apr 11, 2004)

will the replacement light be a low cost retro fit or be an all new system? just wondering as i have just purchased my new western plow.


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## salopez (Apr 11, 2004)

two more notes

Do you there that Western will come out with a powered wing plow to combat the Blizzards? As well is there any kind of off season brush guard in the makes like the Fisher and Meyer units.?
thank you for your time.


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## Frozen001 (Oct 20, 2004)

I have another question:

Do you have a pin-out diagram of the wiring harness that goes from the truck to the plow??? I am just thinking ahead if I ever have problems it might help be diagnose what is wrong with my plow. 

p.s. I have the isolation module if that matters.


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## btrussell (Oct 16, 2004)

I've asked this question before in a different forum but here it goes. Can I order hydraulic fluid from the western factory or do I have to get it from the dealer? And if I were to order hydraulic fluid that is not made by western but says it can be used on western plows such as the high performance fluid, is there a big difference in price?
Thanks for your input
Brian


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## IA Farmer (Nov 7, 2004)

*Bad Paint!*

I just bought my Western plow last year and the paint is already starting to bubble up in spots is that just one of Westerns poor qualities or did my plow not get primed before paint or what. Just curious I figured it wouldnt start rusting for at least 3 or 4 seasons.


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## ZamboniHDB (May 8, 2004)

WesternProducts -

Is the Fisher curb shoe kit for the X-Blade compatible with any Western applications? If not, any plans in the future for Western to produce something similar?

Thanks,
Rick


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

Same with me. I bought a brand new western ultra mount for my chevy 3500 dump truck. The paint is already starting to chip off.


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

Also, does western just use steel bolts as a standard bolt. I reccomend you guys start using stainless steel or galenized bolts. The cancer start here. Im just wondering Because my new plow is already starting to rust in those spots. Is that normal?


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*To Salopez*

Salopez,

In response to your first question, as for the improvements we are working toward on our lights, we are exploring various methods for improvement. I wish I could get into some of the details regarding the style of them, output, etc., but unfortunately I cannot.

Regarding hydraulic-powered wings, we currently do not have any plans to manufacture a blade with this feature. However, we have recently introduced blade wings for our PRO PLUS® line of snowplows. No installation or drilling is required. There is a single pin that attaches to the back of the blade. They weigh 45 lbs. each, and add 6" to each side of the blade. The concept of hydraulic-driven wings offers its advantages; however, the advantage of these wings is that they are simple. There is no complex hydraulic system required to operate the wings. In addition, the wings can easily be detached from the blade when not in use, reducing the weight on the front of the vehicle.

And finally, regarding a brush guard, we currently do not have anything planned at this time to make one available.

Regards -


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*To RAM ON97 & Ultimate Plow - Paint Issues*

To "RAM ON97" & "Ultimate Plow" --

I am sorry to hear about the coat issues you appear to be experiencing already. To improve on some of the shortcomings of the old powder coat system, Western invested in an advanced powder coating system, which includes:

1) a pre-treatment shot blaster,
2) an automated multi-stage pre-wash, and 
3) an automated, climate controlled powder booth.

Unfortunatley, what I have just written regarding the new system we now have in place does not solve your potential problem, but at the very least know that we have made the necessary steps to improve upon our system, which we believe provides industry-best protection against wear and rust.


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*To ZamboniHDB*

Rick (aka "ZamboniHDB") --

The curb shoe kit for the X-blade that you are referring to is not compatible with any Western snowplow applications. The concept is something we have been looking at, however, have no plans in the immediate future to release something equivalent.


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*To Ultimate Plow re: Steel Bolts*

Ultimate Plow --

The majority of the bolts used in our snowplow applications are steel bolts with a yellow zinc chromate coating. Because it can be an initial rust point on any plow, to take it one step further and combat the succeptibility of rust in these areas, we have begun to increase the the amount of chromate coating on the bolts.

Regarding our hopper-style spreaders, all fasteners used in these applications are stainless steel.

Thank you for the post as well as the noted recommendation.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

*Missing Welds!!*

I was wondering why something would leave the factory with missing welds like there was on my plow. Also, I've seen alot of models at Western dealers with really horrible welds. Undercut, wire stubs, nozzle drag, just about everything. I looked my MVP over with a fine tooth comb and it looks ok. Overall I'm pleased with Western. But being a repair welder for John Deere I know that defects will make a plow go to junk.  

I noticed down at the bottom where all of the bracing is there are bare spots!!!


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*To blade_master re: missing welds*

Blade master --

If a product left the factory with missing welds as you have suggested, I can assure you that it was unintentional. To the best of our ability, we routinely perform quality checks on product as they pass through the building. We continue to work on process improvements so that issues such as the one you suggested become non-existent.

Overall, we are glad to hear that you are pleased with the product and hope that you get plenty of use out of your MVP this season.

Regards -


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

I have a western 8.5' mvp ultramount that I purchased last fall.
My question is about the speed of the hydraulics system.
It seems to be quite a bit slower than my old 1996 7.5' pro plus plow.

Is this normal?
I would have thought that the new plow would have had faster hydraulics than the old one.
How many seconds should it take for the wings to retract from scoop to V position?


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## salopez (Apr 11, 2004)

I realize that western has wings for the pro plus plow as that is what i just bought. It seems to me that many people are buying certian product to increase productivity and convience. do you think that my wings are as easy and quick to mount in a storm as using the wings of a Blizzard plow?

What abiyt the claims of Blizzard that their wing plows are more efficient the the v-plows currently made?

I am not trying to insinuate that western is a bad plow. I love mine and would not have purchased any other plow. I would just love to see western think outside the box once in a while and blow all of us away with a really time saving inovation, like ultramount.
thanks
steve


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*To Salopez*

Thank you for your business. I am sure you will like the PRO PLUS®.

In response to your post...I have not operated a Blizzard power plow and am not sure how easy the wings are to operate or how efficient they function.

The efficiency of an MVP or PRO PLUS with wings varies based on the area you plow. The PRO PLUS with wings is most efficient in a wide-open area; whereas, an MVP is better equipped to handle a bank with tight drive through windows or a lot with many parked cars. Of course, preferences vary from plower to plower.

Western continues to look for ways to improve the snow and ice control business.


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*To Mebes re: hydraulics*

Mebes --

The speed of the hydraulics on your MVP® could be slightly slower to that of your 1996 PRO-PLOW® when comparing in straight-blade mode. This is a result of the double-acting cylinders that come standard on the MVP®. The double-acting cylinders allow you to operate the MVP® in a straight-blade mode, as well as give you the ability to backdrag.

Based on the tests we have performed, moving from a scoop position to a V position takes approx. four seconds. As I am sure you are already aware, to ensure that your unit is operating at optimum speeds, I would double-check your fluid levels.

Thank you for the business and support. Regards --


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## Frozen001 (Oct 20, 2004)

*Ground Clearance...*

I have yet another question:

I notice that with many of the new mounts(fisher, wester, boss, blizzard) ground clearance is some what of an issue with many trucks(particularly the GM trucks). Will western be addressing any of these issues? I must admit that with the new ultra mount totally removed these is not much of an issue, but I would like to leave the receiver brackets attached between uses in the winter, for simpler mounting, but can't because the will rub on the curb. I know I could crank up on my torsion bars, but really do not like to modify my trucks to much. It seems to me that the mount can be raised up some what if they could be placed higher in the truck frame.

P.S. I really like the ultra mount system. It takes me longer to plug the plow in that actually mount the plow.

Thanks again!!


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## intlco (Nov 15, 2004)

*Over Charging For Plows In MONTANA!!!*

Both Fisher And Western need to do some price regulating in Montana? Today I spoke with a dealer who never returned any of my calls to purchase some v-blades and after sitting on hold 20 min, he finally comes to phone and says that we now want 8K for any Fisher blade and was complaining that you gave someone part of their state and the other guy is charging 8500K for a blade.
The Western dealers are doing the same in Montana.
The sale guy says, if you don't like our prices, then you can drive 600 miles to another market.

As far as I see, you can have the best product, but if you don't take care of your customers and get rid of these dealers that are overcharging, you will not sell plows in the Montana market.
After trying to buy some Fisher V's for 2 months, I'm finished with this. You guys don't have a phone number like other companies to call a rep. and I am tired of workin so hard at buying some blades.
Friday, I will drive out of town and buy Blizzard blades. And other guys here in Montana and Wyoming market will do the same if they don't stop over charging.

Maybe your regional rep should contact Kois Brothers, in Billings, & Great Falls and contact Midwest Industries in Bozeman. And the other dealers that are overcharging.
This is not the way to treat a loyal intl customer of 15 years. We have company offices in both MT & WY and overseas in several countries as well. Loosing business customers like my company is not good for business.


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## KenP (Oct 4, 2002)

Thanks for a great product. I just picked up 6 Pro Plus w/ wings to add to our fleet consisting of numerous Pro series and V-plows all WESTERN.


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Ground Clearance*

Frozen001 --

Thank you for the post and your support of Western. Always nice to hear the nice comments regarding our product and the UltraMount® mount system. In response to your question on truck ground clearance...we always take that into consideration when designing a mount system. This is evident with the UltraMount, and like you mentioned, the removable receiver brackets. This feature allows you to virtually gain back all ground clearance on the truck. Unfortunately, when it comes to this issue, we are at the mercy of the OEMs on this one. And like you eluded to, GMs become particularly tricky. At the very least, cranking up on the torsion bars help...along with fitting your truck up with larger tires (if not already done so).

Like mentioned before, we appreciate the support. Regards --


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Montana*

intlco --

Sorry to hear about your less than favorable experience with Midwest. Kois Bros. is not a Western distributor, so unfortunately I cannot comment on them. To your first point, our distributors are independent business owners, and is illegal for us to establish their re-sell prices. Regarding possible resolve, I will certainly pass your comments along to our Regional Sales Manager.


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*To KenP*

Ken @ Cenova --

We appreciate your business and your support. Sounds like you have a nice little fleet...especially with the addition of 6 PRO PLUS® blades.

Regards --


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## thatguy (Nov 24, 2004)

*Emergency Situation*

  

I have a question about hydraulic fluid. What can I do if I'm out on a job during a nasty storm, busy clearing the white stuff off of roads and such, and I run out of hydraulic fluid? What would be the manufacturer's suggestion for an alternate fluid in an emergency situation? In the past, I've personally used a Melontini with pretty good results.


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## RamesesSnow23 (Jan 4, 2004)

I would like to thank western and the representative for taking the time to answer all our questions.

Do you make a unimount for a 1998 Jeep Cherokee, it says on your website that the mount fits cherokees up to the model year 1996. Would that same mount fit a 98? To my knowlage, the subframe did not change between 1996 and 98. I ended up getting another plow, so iam just curious.

Also do you have any plans to offer your LSX 7'2" and Sport Utility 6'5" plows with the ultra mount system, or just the unimount?

Thank you very much for taking the time to help us out, it is nice to have a representative directly from the company. 
Happy Thanksgiving :waving:


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## salopez (Apr 11, 2004)

its not ilegal for you to set a recomended MSRP and hold your distributors to within a certain percentage of that number or you pull their business. its very common in other business sectors.

maybe your montana reps should be visiting their accounts more often to check on price gouging?


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## dodgerocks (Oct 17, 2004)

*Straight blade to a v-blade*

I have a Ultramount straight blade but wish to switch to a ultramount v-blade. What needs to be changed? Obviously the wiring harness but can I still use the same undercarrage with the v-plow. Thanks.


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## ADLAWNCUTTERS (May 24, 2001)

i have a question. i use tranny fluid in my mpv plows , or is it better to use hydraulic fluid. i love your products but as you stated the paint jobs on them need improvement.i hope you guys monitor this site all the time maybe we could trade ideas .thanks


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

Thanks for the quick reply to my previous question.
I have 1 more for you.

Can your snowplows be stored in the summer by standing them upright on the moldboard with the pivot bar pointing straight up?

I have seen others do this to conserve space, and I was just wondering if it would cause seal or other problems?

Thanks in Advance.

Oh yea, how about adding a sight glass to do a quick check of the fluid level.
And while you are at it, how about adding a heater for the fluid as well. (for those cold days)


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## hoot (Nov 23, 2003)

I'm not all that crazy about the Fishstik controller for my MVP. The part I don't like is waiting for the mode to change. Is there anything going on to improve mode change response or a redesign of this control?

Thanks... Love the UltraMount system!

Mike


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## LINY Rob (Oct 5, 2004)

thatguy said:


> I have a question about hydraulic fluid. What can I do if I'm out on a job during a nasty storm, busy clearing the white stuff off of roads and such, and I run out of hydraulic fluid? What would be the manufacturer's suggestion for an alternate fluid in an emergency situation? In the past, I've personally used a Melontini with pretty good results.


as per western's installation manual- you can use Dextron ATF fluid, I believe its Dextron II, I dont have it in front of me to tell you the exact one, that and the western fluid is rated down to -35 degrees


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## Buckeye Chuck (Nov 22, 2004)

*Clearance*

What is the clearance underneath with a Standard 7.5 poly blade on a Silverado 1/2 ton, reg, short bed? Does Western give you more clearance underneath than a Meyer?
Thanks


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## 84deisel (Dec 2, 2003)

just a quick question. During our last snowfall on thanksgiving eve, we had an accident with a pro-plus unimount.The blade was hit from the back of the blade by a car and completely flew off the truck and landed 10 feet from truck.Damage was confined only to the right and left standards as well as the lower lift frame.It did not damage anything else. I was wondering if this is a built in safety feature or did I find a weak spot in the ultra-mount system that could possibly occur in a backdragging situation? By the way my dealer Adam's Enterprise's had all parts in stock and repairs were not time consuming and rather easy to do.We have over 15 ultra-mounts and are only buying the pro plus on all of our new trucks along with about 15 unimounts.


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## classicman (Dec 3, 2003)

*Pump motor Question*

One of my vehicles has a cable operated Western on it. The internal wiring to the motor has gone bad, and I need a new motor. The motor is stamped MEZ-7002. Some have said that this is the Prestolite equivalent to a Western 56133 motor. Others have said it is the equivalent to a Western 25556A motor. When I look at a picture of either motor on the internet, they both look different than mine, specifically, the base of the motor. Can you tell me what is the correct Western Part Number? Thanks


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## Turfmower (Dec 20, 2003)

I bought my GMC with 8.5 western ultra mount January 04. The cutting edge broke last year plowing.








I broke on a catch basin. 
1) Is the cutting edge covered under warranty?
2) Are the springs adjusted too tight to make it trip?


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## salopez (Apr 11, 2004)

seems to me that the torque on the edge of the plow would make the plow turn left rather then trip. have you looked into gaurds for the edge of your plow so that it doesnt catch on things? they have them at cpw.

i sure hope its covered though.


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## jiriki87 (Aug 26, 2003)

I have your Western MVP for my dodge 2500. Can I speed up the hydralics, it seems like they are half the speed of my boss. Also I bought your new joystick controller which is better then the fishstick deal, but the controlls are still terrible to use. Boss joystick controll made sense, this one does not.

Peter

Any help would be nice-- - -it was pretty challenging plowing the 2 feet of snow we had yesterday.


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to Chris (aka cja1987)*

Chris,

Thank you for the post. Regarding your question on the 1998 Jeep Cherokee, Western does not recommend a plow on the 1998 Cherokee due to vehicle capacity and compliance issues that started with the 1997 model year. As you stated, the 1996 mount may fit the 1998 model, but Western does not recommend the application due to the reasons above.

And in response to your question on the LSX and Sport/Utility...we have no plans to offer these plows with the UltraMount® mount system. An equivalent plow that is available with the UltraMount would be our new MIDWEIGHT™ plow. The MIDWEIGHT was released this year (limited availability), and fits some of the same applications that the LSX and Sport/Utility would. For more information, visit www.westernplows.com/standardmid.asp.

Regards ~


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## glenspot (Aug 11, 2004)

*Western 8' Unimount*

On my western motor there are 4 torx-head screws that go into the sides of the motor.

Don't ask me how but 2 of the 4 torx screws were taken out. (It has to do with an over-anxious teenager and a new set of torx wrenches.)...anyway

I can't seem to get them re-installed. The holes are not threaded, and inside the holes there seems to be just a smooth piece of metal.

An over anxious dad (me) tried to operate the plow with the screws out and burned up the solenoid (sp?). (Maybe one doesn't have anything to do with the other, I don't know)

The solenoid seems easy enough to replace, but do I need to open the top of the motor and turn something to get the torx-screws back in?

Next snowfall is Thursday....

Thanks, in advance for your help.

Glen


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to "dodgerocks"*

Thank you for the post. As you stated, if you are replacing an UltraMount® straight blade with an UltraMount MVP®, then you are correct in that you can continue to use the same vehicle mount for your V-plow (assuming you are not switching vehicles). Also, like you mentioned, you would require a new wiring harness for the V-plow.

Regards ~


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to "ADLAWNCUTTERS"*

Thank you for the post. For all of our plows, we recommend you use WESTERN® High Performance Hydraulic Fluid. Western hydraulic fluid demonstrates superior cold temperature properties compared to transmission fluid or ATF. This will help keep your plow operating at an optimum level regardless of the cold weather conditions you face.

Regards ~


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to "Mebes"*

Mebes,

In response to your question on storing your plow face-down on its moldboard...yes, you can safely store your plow this way during the off-season. You may or may not already know to do this, but my only recommendation would be to either (1) drain the fluid prior to storing or (2) replace the breather plug with a solid plug prior to storing it this way. If not done, hydraulic fluid will more than likely leak out of the unit, creating some unecessary clean-up time for you.

In addition, thank you for the suggestions regarding a sight glass for the hydraulic unit and a heater for the fluid. I will certainly pass them along to the appropriate persons over here. We always appreciate product suggestions that will ultimately, when all is said and done, make your jobs easier.

Regards ~


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## hoot (Nov 23, 2003)

I'm not all that crazy about the Fishstik controller for my MVP. The part I don't like is waiting for the mode to change. Is there anything going on to improve mode change response or a redesign of this control?

Thanks... Love the UltraMount system!

Mike


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to Mike (aka "hoot")*

Mike,

Thank you for the post. We are glad to hear you are more than satisfied with the UltraMount® system. One of the new things we introduced this year was in fact a new design for the MVP® handheld control (CabCommand). The picture below (assuming the attachment went through) gives you a better idea as to what the face of the control looks like. As you can see the mode button is no longer included, and instead, each function has its own button or position. Furthermore, the new handheld control is compatible with all existing MVP's and connectors.

Also new this year was the introduction of a joystick option for the MVP. That picture is also attached.

Regards ~


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to Chuck (aka "Buckeye Chuck")*

Before answering your question as best I can, I need you to be a little more specific.

You are interested in the ground clearance when (1) the blade is attached and lifted or (2) when the blade is attached and on the ground? Additional factors that come into consideration when answering the question are (1) engine size -- is it a V-6, V-8, diesel, etc., (2) types of tires, etc.

Thank you for the initial post, and look forward to your follow-up.

Regards ~


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## hoot (Nov 23, 2003)

WesternProducts said:


> Mike,
> 
> Thank you for the post. We are glad to hear you are more than satisfied with the UltraMount® system. One of the new things we introduced this year was in fact a new design for the MVP® handheld control (CabCommand). The picture below (assuming the attachment went through) gives you a better idea as to what the face of the control looks like. As you can see the mode button is no longer included, and instead, each function has its own button or position. Furthermore, the new handheld control is compatible with all existing MVP's and connectors.
> 
> ...


NOW THAT IS INCREDIBLE!

Can I trade mine in? MSRP???


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to "84diesel"*

Thank you for the post. For clarification purposes, I assume you are referring to the UniMount® PRO-PLOW®, and not the PRO PLUS®. The PRO PLUS is only available with the UltraMount® system. Second, I hope you and anyone else involved was OK. When you say that the blade was struck from the back side, I assume that while backdragging, the driver (1) caught the edge of a car or (2) a car caught the edge of the plow while passing by. In any event, based on the information provided, the blade being completely detached from the A-frame is not a "built-in" safety feature, and I would assume to be an isolated incidence.

Before our products are launched, they undergo a series of winter-long tests to help ensure the products perform and function as they are intended -- which includes backdragging.

I hope this somewhat answers your question, and unfortunately without more information (break-away points, plowing conditions, etc.), it is difficult for me to elaborate on a more definitive answer. Glad to hear that Adam's Enterprise's serviced you well. In addition, we greatly appreciate your support of our line.

Regards ~


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Resonse to "Turfmower"*



Turfmower said:


> I bought my GMC with 8.5 western ultra mount January 04. The cutting edge broke last year plowing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the post. In response to (#1): The Western warranty policy covers items specifically attributed to a manufacturing defect. If you believe that the cutting edge broke as a result of this, then I would recommend you submit the claim to your nearest Western distributor.

In response to (#2): The spring tension is pre-set by Western so that it permits the plow to trip only when necessary to prevent damage. The correct method is to tighten the springs so that when properly set, a business card can be slipped between the coils.

Regards ~


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to "jiriki87"*

Thank you for the post and support. Unfortunately, there is not a whole that can be done to help improve upon the speed your hydraulics. The one recommendation that I have would be to make sure you are using Western High Performance Hydraulic Fluid. In colder temperatures, the cold-weather properties of Western hydraulic fluid will help your plow operate at an optimum level -- regardless of conditions -- compared to other fluids.

In response to the hydraulics appearing to be slower than that of your BOSS plow, particularly when moving the blade from Scoop to V, this is a result of the double-acting cylinders that come standard on the MVP®. As I am sure you are aware from your personal knowledge and from what I have posted in previous threads...the double-acting cylinders allow you to operate the MVP® in a straight-blade mode, as well as give you the ability to backdrag. BOSS V-plows have a spring return, thus do not rely on a hydraulic return. However, the spring returns do not (1) allow you to operate the V-plow in a straight-blade mode, and (2) allow you to backdrag. To add these features, an additional cylinder lock is needed.

Glad to hear you are pleased with the new joystick option in comparison to the handheld option. We continue to look for ways to improve upon our product offerings.

Regards ~


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## Buckeye Chuck (Nov 22, 2004)

WesternProducts said:


> Before answering your question as best I can, I need you to be a little more specific.
> 
> You are interested in the ground clearance when (1) the blade is attached and lifted or (2) when the blade is attached and on the ground? Additional factors that come into consideration when answering the question are (1) engine size -- is it a V-6, V-8, diesel, etc., (2) types of tires, etc.
> 
> ...


V8 , 17 inch stock tires, plow prep, twoing pkg.

I'm interested in the clearance of the frame work with the plow off, ie summer.

I am also was told a chunk of the air dam will have to be cut out on each side, hate cutting up new truck but is that the best way to go. Taking off dam doesn't soung like a good idea.

I was also told my skid plate might have to be removed, is that normal? That was part of the snow prep pkg. I bought.


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## Frozen001 (Oct 20, 2004)

Buckeye Chuck said:


> V8 , 17 inch stock tires, plow prep, twoing pkg.
> 
> I'm interested in the clearance of the frame work with the plow off, ie summer.
> 
> ...


I have an new ultra mount on my 04 2500hd, and no cutting of the air dam was needed, and as far as ground clearance, with the receiver brackets removed , I did not loose that much, maybe 1.5 inches, which is not much compared to some other mounts. The air dam might be different on a 1/2 ton, but I do not know for sure.


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## 84deisel (Dec 2, 2003)

*just a quick question. During our last snowfall on thanksgiving eve, we had an accide*

sorry plow that was involed in accident was a pro plus ultra-mount not a unimount.


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## Buckeye Chuck (Nov 22, 2004)

Frozen001 said:


> I have an new ultra mount on my 04 2500hd, and no cutting of the air dam was needed, and as far as ground clearance, with the receiver brackets removed , I did not loose that much, maybe 1.5 inches, which is not much compared to some other mounts. The air dam might be different on a 1/2 ton, but I do not know for sure.


Hmmmmmmmmmmm , I wonder. Let's see what the rep. says. Owner of this shop I went to had a HD GMC and he had cut out on each side of the pull hooks. Didn't look to good. The Meyer guy said he might not have to cut anyting but I kind of like the Western better.


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## salopez (Apr 11, 2004)

there was no cutting on the front of my '04 2500 hd. 
i think it has something to do with how the dealer installs it. dont think they all do it the same.


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## LINY Rob (Oct 5, 2004)

WesternProducts said:


> Thank you for the post. For all of our plows, we recommend you use WESTERN® High Performance Hydraulic Fluid. Western hydraulic fluid demonstrates superior cold temperature properties compared to transmission fluid or ATF. This will help keep your plow operating at an optimum level regardless of the cold weather conditions you face.
> 
> Regards ~


well, I found out after driving home 45 minutes from my western dealer that fluid is not included with the plow. So after thumbing through the install manual I see it says Dextron III can also be used, the ratings given in the manual are less then 10 degrees different or so, not a factor in my part of New York.

Hardly worth the 1.5 hour round trip drive to get 3 quarts of fluid

Is this correct or did the dealer hose me and forget my fluid?

Would it be so bad to throw in a few quarts of fluid with the $3600 plow?


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## Buckeye Chuck (Nov 22, 2004)

LINY Rob said:


> well, I found out after driving home 45 minutes from my western dealer that fluid is not included with the plow. So after thumbing through the install manual I see it says Dextron III can also be used, the ratings given in the manual are less then 10 degrees different or so, not a factor in my part of New York.
> 
> Hardly worth the 1.5 hour round trip drive to get 3 quarts of fluid
> 
> ...


I would hope they just forgot, which is bad enough! I would tell them to send it to you, like NOW.


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## LINY Rob (Oct 5, 2004)

problem is I wanted to fire the thing up tomoroww and see how my install worked out

I dont know what to do at this point


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## btrussell (Oct 16, 2004)

Rob I was told by my dealear that with the new pumps you should use the hydraulic fluid over the dexron because the new pumps are breathing pumps which i think it means that it more prone to freezing and cold. I decided to drive an hour and a half to get fluid to cange it and it cost me 9 bucks a quart but i picked up enough for next year as well. you can always get some online too. the way I see it is that I'll use the stuff they make for the plow that way if something happens it not likely to be my fault. All my opinion though.
Brian


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## LINY Rob (Oct 5, 2004)

Ill drive back out there, but im not paying for the fluid if I do.


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to "classicman"*

Thanks for the post Classicman!!

If I understand correctly, your old motor was stamped with the part number MEZ-7002, and some people have directed you to the equivalent 56133 replacement motor as well as part number 25556A.

That being said, the correct motor you need is 56133 - 4-1/2" motor assembly. The 25556A is a part number for an obsolete motor. However, note that depending on the age of your unit, you may have to replace the pump on the unit as well...seeing as the 56133 motor does not fit on the older pumps. These units have a coupling between the pump and the motor. When you go to your Western distributor, make sure that before you leave...a new pump is not needed. For reference...the part number for the new pump is 49211.

Feel free to post any more questions...and hope this helps.

Regards ~


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to "Frozen001" re: Wiring Diagrams*



Frozen001 said:


> I have another question:
> 
> Do you have a pin-out diagram of the wiring harness that goes from the truck to the plow??? I am just thinking ahead if I ever have problems it might help be diagnose what is wrong with my plow.
> 
> p.s. I have the isolation module if that matters.


Thanks for the post Frozen001! I almost missed this one early on! In response to your question on wiring diagrams and drawings, all of our technical drawings and such are located in the _Publications Library_ on our Web site -- http://www.westernplows.com/techinfo.asp.

Hope this helps!

Regards ~


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to Brian (aka "btrussell")*



btrussell said:


> I've asked this question before in a different forum but here it goes. Can I order hydraulic fluid from the western factory or do I have to get it from the dealer? And if I were to order hydraulic fluid that is not made by western but says it can be used on western plows such as the high performance fluid, is there a big difference in price?
> Thanks for your input
> Brian


In response to your questions on Western High Performance Hydraulic Fluid, (1) unfortunately, you cannot order Western fluid, parts, etc. factory direct. You will have to purchase it from your local dealer. (2) the price of fluid varies from dealer to dealer, but I would assume pricing of the two would be in the same general ballpark. But again, it really depends on the dealer. If you were going to go the route of purchasing a hydraulic fluid other than the recommended Western High Performance Fluid, make sure the fluid you purchase is MIL 5606 spec.

Hope this helps...and thanks for the post!!

Regards ~


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## btrussell (Oct 16, 2004)

Thank you western for your response it will deffinately help in the future.
Brian


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to "glenspot"*

In response to your question on torx-screw "dilemma"...what must have happened is when two of the screws were taken out, the pole shoe dropped down in the casing. That is why it appears to be a smooth piece of metal on the other side of the hole. And when the pole shoe dropped, the motor was more than likely wedged tight within the casing.

What you can do is remove the two fasteners from the top, pop the cap off, and lift the motor frame out. While lifting the motor frame out, use a 7/8 or 15/16 socket to hold the brushes in place. This will make it a little easier to re-assemble. The pole shoe will slide out and then you can put the fasteners back in. As a reminder, make sure to align the pump shaft and motor shaft when re-assembling.

Hope this helps and thanks for the post!!

Regards ~


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## Frozen001 (Oct 20, 2004)

WesternProducts said:


> Thanks for the post Frozen001! I almost missed this one early on! In response to your question on wiring diagrams and drawings, all of our technical drawings and such are located in the _Publications Library_ on our Web site -- http://www.westernplows.com/techinfo.asp.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Regards ~


Thanks for the info, but unfortunately I looked the drawings over, and they do not have a specific diagram that states pin 1 is right signal, pin 2 is parking lights, etc.

Thanks again for all the help and input you have provided over the past week!!


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to Mike (aka "hoot")*



hoot said:


> NOW THAT IS INCREDIBLE!
> 
> Can I trade mine in? MSRP???


You would have to talk to your dealer on that one!!

Regards ~


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## hoot (Nov 23, 2003)

WesternProducts said:


> You would have to talk to your dealer on that one!!
> 
> Regards ~


Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.

Mike


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to Chuck (aka "Buckeye Chuck")*



Buckeye Chuck said:


> V8 , 17 inch stock tires, plow prep, twoing pkg.
> 
> I'm interested in the clearance of the frame work with the plow off, ie summer.
> 
> ...


Chuck,

Sounds like you are hearing a few different opinions. Hopefully this will help. In response to your questions:

(1) Regarding ground clearance...for an UltraMount® plow application, when the plow is detached from the truck and the removable receiver brackets are also taken off, the mount frame hangs less than 5 inches below the truck frame. So ultimately, you are losing very little ground clearance.

(2) Regarding notching of the air dam...there will be some trimming that is required. As for the skid plate, I will have to do a little more research on that one.

Hope this helps, and again, thanks for the post!

Regards ~


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Reponse to Chuck re: 2005 GM*

Chuck,

As a follow up to the post I just made regarding your 2005 GM, I have attached a picture that might better describe what is more than likely going to be trimmed and/or removed.

(1) The gray plastic plate behind the two hooks will more than likely be removed as well as the gray piece of trim at the bottom of the bumper.
(2) The only trimming that will be done then will be the small green sections beneath each of the tow hooks. These are typically cut sqaure to keep the rigid look on the bumper.

Again, hope this helps and gives you a better idea as to what you can possibly expect.

Regards ~


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## salopez (Apr 11, 2004)

could i have kept my tow hooks on my 04 2500 hd? mine were removed for the install. for a 7.5 pro plus ultramount by the way


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Hydraulic Fluid*



LINY Rob said:


> well, I found out after driving home 45 minutes from my western dealer that fluid is not included with the plow. So after thumbing through the install manual I see it says Dextron III can also be used, the ratings given in the manual are less then 10 degrees different or so, not a factor in my part of New York.
> 
> Hardly worth the 1.5 hour round trip drive to get 3 quarts of fluid
> 
> ...


LINY Rob...

Thanks for the post!! In response to some of your questions on hydraulic fluid:

(1) The ratings between Dexron III and Western High Performance Hydraulic Fluid has a difference of approx. ~ 10 degrees or so like you stated...but one thing that was not mentioned is the viscosity of the two types of fluids. Dexron III has a substantially higher viscosity at colder temperatures compared to the Western High Performance fluid. Performance degradation begins at 53 degrees F for Dexron when used in our hydraulic unit. Whereas with Western High Performance fluid, degradation begins at around -40 degrees F.

(2) In response to including quart(s) of fluid with plow purchases, these are promotions linked solely to the distributor. I agree that it would be nice to receive a free quart of fluid when making a plow purchase, but unfortunately this is out of Western's control. It might be a recommendation worth making to your local dealer.

Again, hope this helps!!

Regards ~


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to Brian (aka "btrussell")*



btrussell said:


> Rob I was told by my dealear that with the new pumps you should use the hydraulic fluid over the dexron because the new pumps are breathing pumps which i think it means that it more prone to freezing and cold. I decided to drive an hour and a half to get fluid to cange it and it cost me 9 bucks a quart but i picked up enough for next year as well. you can always get some online too. the way I see it is that I'll use the stuff they make for the plow that way if something happens it not likely to be my fault. All my opinion though.
> Brian


Brian,

You were on the right track. Just to clarify for the group...it is not necessarily pump related, rather the hydraulic unit itself is "open" due to the breather.

Western


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

*Thank you very much!*

Western,

Thank you very much for your plows. I currently own 14 Western plows and will soon be expanding by 3 more trucks and possibly 6 Ice Breaker salt spreaders. Western is the only brand I will buy.

I have a suggestion for your tailgate spreaders. Every year I wind up buying 4 or 5 extra covers because my employees keep forgetting to latch the covers down. My suggestion is to install a loose bungee or chain so the cover can be removed and set aside for hopper refill and then replace the top. If someone forgets to strap it down the cover will only go so far as the chain or bungee will allow. I have this set up on 2 of my spreaders and it works well.

I also have a question... Does Western have any plans to create a back drag plow similar to the Snowman Pull Plow or the Daniels? If so I want to be the first in line.

Again, thank you for your products and especially for the time you spent here with us on PlowSite!


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Response to "Plow Meister"*

Plow Meister...

Thank you for the post! As well as your loyalty to our product!

In response to your post...we currently in fact do include straps on our Low Profile series of Tailgate Spreaders. There are two teather straps located on the backside of the Low Profile tailgate hoppers (LP500, LP1000, and LP2000). However, if you are referring to the PRO FLO series of Tailgate Spreaders, these covers currently only have an elastic base to them. If these are the ones you are speaking of...I will happily pass your comment along to the appropriate persons. Regarding your inquiry on a pull plow, we currently do not have anything in the works to manufacture a similar plow.

Again, thank you for your support!!

Regards ~


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Western® Forum*

Reminder to Plowsite members,

As our allotted time on the site comes to a close, Western would like to an extend a thank you to all who have offered to share their questions, thoughts, suggestions, and opinions. We have certainly have benefited from your comments and suggestions, and we hope we have provided you with some useful information as well.

At this time, I'd like to invite everyone to share any final product-related suggestions, comments, etc. with us. Like I stated earlier, we continue to look for ways to improve upon the snow and ice control business. When time permits, I will post a closing message in the coming days to re-cap some of the topics touched upon during our week-long discussion.

Again, thank you for the feedback and lets hope for a great plowing season ahead.

Regards ~


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## Heron Cove PM (Aug 4, 2003)

I too would like to thank you for your time and your responses here. You did answer a lot of my questions, with the other posters. I am concerned about my powder coat overtime, a better lighting system - a true HID system, as well as a couple of other minor things. I think it is wonderful and I think it says a lot about the manufacturer who's willing to get involved. I posted this question in a previous thread, and I look forward to hearing an answer from you.

My dealer wouldn't install the isolation module. They informed me that pretty much everyone they had installed up to that point, they had problems with. That's neither here nor there. My questions is what is the fundamental difference between the relays and the isolation module? What does each one do, and why is one better or not better than the other? Some of the fine folks that have responded here say pretty much that they do the same thing. If this is true, then please explain this to me like I am a 6 year old. I am an A-B-C,1-2-3 kind of guy. Why would you have two units doing the same thing? Why wouldn't you just have one; the better of the two?

Thanks in advance. Again, WONDERFUL products and WONDERFUL product support.

Marshall


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## Heron Cove PM (Aug 4, 2003)

I apologize, I have one other question and one consideration. I have a Pro Plus. And by the way, phenomenal plow. It's about time someone produced a true commercial plow for light duty vehicles. As you can see, I have every option I could possibly get, wings, etc... with the exception of the back drag edge. My question is, now that the product has been out a while, have you had any concerns with the back drag edge? Does it change the wear characteristics of the front cutting edge? Does it create added harmonics to the entire board? I would imagine that it works well as a back drag edge, but what is the effect with regards to the wearing of the material on both edges since the majority of the plowing is done forward?

In regards to your ice equipment, specifically your v-box hoppers, there are several manufacturers that offer a stainless steel v-box hopper; however, I have yet to find one that makes any of the lower end components stainless steel. All of our stainless steel boxes have held up wonderfully compared to the powder-coat versions; obviously. But no matter how hard we try, how meticulous we are with maintenance, (and trust me, we've tried everything)we are always replacing lower ends - chains, gear boxes, drive gears, etc... They are all made out of standard steel. I understand that using stainless steel increases the cost, but overtime, replacing bottom ends would equal if not surpass that cost. I think it would be a worthwhile consideration.

Thanks,

Marshall


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## WesternProducts (Oct 7, 2003)

*Responses to Final Posts*

Again, I would like to thank all that participated in the forum. The feedback is invaluable to us as we continue to pursue product improvements, changes, etc. To make sure that no post goes unanswered, following are responses to the remaining few....

*To Salopez:*

_Regarding your 2004 GM HD truck and bumper modifications..._
I apologize for not being more specific in my previous reponse. Yes, the tow hooks will more than likely need to be removed as well.

*To Marshall (aka "Heron Cove PM")*

_What is the Isolation Module System_
An advanced lighting and electrical system powered directly from the battery, isolating the snowplow control from the vehicle's sensitive electronic system. It does not tax your vehicle circuits.

_What are the advantages of the Isolation Module system compared to the Relay System?_
(1) Plow, vehicle, and control harness plugs contain larger, solid pins which are more corrosion resistant and longer lasting.
(2) No more loose relays. The Isolation Module system contain an under-the-hood sealed module, thus, is more reliable.
(3) Separate control and headlamp harnesses make it easier to troubleshoot.
(4) The plow has three grille plug connectors in which two plug together during storage for improved corrosion protection.
(5) All harnesses use OEM high-temperature rated wiring (125 degrees) on all under-hood harnesses.

_Backdrag Edges:_
The backdrag edge should wear evenly with the cutting edge, and should not have an impact on the wear characteristics of the cutting edge.

Thank you for your comments and recommendations made regarding stainless steel chute components (chains, gear boxes, etc.). I will happily pass them along to the appropriate people.

*Like stated above, thanks to all that have offered their feedback and suggestions over the past week and a half. Your comments do not fall upon deaf ears, and the feedback received is extremely important to us as we make every effort possible to continually improve upon our products. Forums such as these are invaluable to us in that process.*

That being said, let's hope for a big winter.


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