# ONTARIO, CDA - new to plowing



## BeemerD (Dec 14, 2007)

Gents, went and bought a Western 7'6" Steel Mid Weight, with the Ultra mount system. Nice unit, though I know nothing of plows. 

The plow is mounted to a 2007 Dodge Ram 1500SL 4x4. I did notice the front end dropped... a 'tad'. 

I'm plowing in Barrie Ontario, my own property (business lot 300' x 80', and home). I was wondering about the requirement for warning lights. I do have my four-ways on when I do my property. I do push the snow from the street at my drive entrance into the back of my property, so the transports can get in to our driveway without getting stuck. Do I need a flashing amber light on the roof? 
I know in Ontario it use to be a Blue flashing light, but I've been told from the company that installed the plow, which plows is all they do, that the Ontario gov. was changing the law to amber instead of the blue.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

I live in Toronto and have been trying to follow this silly change of 'protocol'. As far as I have gathered and its difficult to find information on this topic, its not the province that is trying to change the light protocol but the city of Toronto. Toronto wants to implement a bylaw where only city plows will use blue flashing lights and all other private plowers are to be using rotating or blinking amber lights. However, as of now nothing has been changed. Personally, I think its silly having different protocols for people of the same industry.

Hope this helps. 
If you gather any additional information feel free to share.


----------



## DP Property (Dec 1, 2007)

Blue light on private property is fine on the road turn it off Police can fine you if there in a bad mood. Also make sure your license plate is visible on the plow frame not sitting on the dash behind the front window. This is what I was told from the Ontario Provincial Police.


----------



## karol (Sep 23, 2004)

*lights*



BeemerD;456010 said:


> Gents, went and bought a Western 7'6" Steel Mid Weight, with the Ultra mount system. Nice unit, though I know nothing of plows.
> 
> The plow is mounted to a 2007 Dodge Ram 1500SL 4x4. I did notice the front end dropped... a 'tad'.
> 
> ...


Blue is fine. I'm in oro medonte. I've got a blue led. Bought it last year. It was 119.00 plus tax. If you're looking for a light i will give you a deal on it. PM at [email protected]


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

DP Property;456196 said:


> Blue light on private property is fine on the road turn it off Police can fine you if there in a bad mood. Also make sure your license plate is visible on the plow frame not sitting on the dash behind the front window. This is what I was told from the Ontario Provincial Police.


Im not quite sure where you got this information but I would love to see the actual law or bylaw that currently exists prohibiting the use of blue lights because I dont believe it exists. ????


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

*Highway Traffic Act of Ontario*

I was searching and I found this in the HTA of Ontario and as of right now there are no other laws/bylaws that conflict with these rules or protocols. I hope this helps.

Flashing blue light on snow-removal equipment
(31) No person shall, while operating a road service vehicle on a highway, plow, salt or de-ice the highway or apply chemicals or abrasives to the highway for snow or ice control unless the road service vehicle is equipped with a lamp producing intermittent flashes of blue light visible for a distance of 150 metres from all directions. 1996, c. 33, s. 11.
Restriction on use of flashing blue light
(32) No person shall operate a lamp that produces intermittent flashes of blue light on a highway except,
(a) a person operating a road service vehicle in the circumstances described in subsection (31); or 
(b) a person operating a police department vehicle, together with a lamp that produces intermittent flashes of red light, as permitted by subsection (14.1). 2007, c. 13, s. 17 (8).
Penalty - commercial motor vehicle


----------



## BeemerD (Dec 14, 2007)

The HTA was the first place I looked, but as you saw there is nothing to support a change to yellow.


----------



## bowtie_guy (Jan 1, 2004)

Welcome to the site.

In Timmins they have started to ban the blue light.

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=52762

Locally I have asked the cops and was told to change to amber now and be done with it. So since I run amber in the summer I tossed it back on and am good to go.


----------



## DP Property (Dec 1, 2007)

we are not a road service vehicle remember that. We are providing a service for private properties. Also in many of the insurance policy's for plowing they state the coverage does not include public roads. Blue light on the road on your pickup = Ticket if the boys in blue are bored or having a bad day.


----------



## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

What is annoying is that I believe Pickering and TO have different regulations. An MTO in Pickering said we had to have the blue light on always when driving with the plow, but a TO bylaw guy said something different, that we should not.... I wish there was a standard. Now that the Police in TO have flashing blue in their lights, I heard they were going to change it for plowers...


----------



## BeemerD (Dec 14, 2007)

Pristine PM ltd;463693 said:


> What is annoying is that I believe Pickering and TO have different regulations. An MTO in Pickering said we had to have the blue light on always when driving with the plow, but a TO bylaw guy said something different, that we should not.... I wish there was a standard. Now that the Police in TO have flashing blue in their lights, I heard they were going to change it for plowers...


I just went with the amber light. I don't really care about the blue light, and the HTA only mentions a blue light for higway plows, and since most of us don't do highway plowing, there's no issue. I would not worry what a civil servent says, just follow the HTA and you'll be fine. My only concern was to stay in compliance with laws and regs.


----------



## DP Property (Dec 1, 2007)

Thats a good idea I want to get one of those amber light bars there nice and bright


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

In regards to the Blue light while plowing highways and roads is. You are plowing your parking lot, when you pull out on the road to turn around or push snow back into your lot you are not allowed to have the light on because you are not actually plowing the town/city roads. I run my blue light in the parking lot and turn it off from site to site. If they change to orange I will just change the lens.

They had a blitz here last year where they ticketed people that had their front plate blocked by the plow. They actually ticketed 4 of the town trucks. No one said these guys are practical. I was going to get the licence plate ticket but I couldn't find my CVOR so I got that ticket instead, $80. Good job I couldn't find it because if I had I would of gotten a ticket for not filling out my log book, $390.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

Pristine PM ltd;463693 said:


> What is annoying is that I believe Pickering and TO have different regulations. An MTO in Pickering said we had to have the blue light on always when driving with the plow, but a TO bylaw guy said something different, that we should not.... I wish there was a standard. Now that the Police in TO have flashing blue in their lights, I heard they were going to change it for plowers...


Its alot of garbage really. Personally I leave my blue light on all the time while plowing or driving. If a cop gives me a ticket, he needs to find something better to do, and I would gladly explain to a judge that in the interest of my own safety, and the publics safety I leave my blue PLOWING LIGHT on to make my self as visible as possible during severe conditions and if he still gave me a ticket, then thats bull.

Cheers
Jeff


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

After hours or searching I have still yet to come accross an actual bylaw that states we are not allowed to run blue lights.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

OK, nothing conclusive yet but I emaild Toronto Police Servics Traffic Division. In the mean time I spoke to a local traffic cop and this is what he said. 

It is technically against the law to drive on public roads with a flashing blue light unless engaged in plowing at the time and this goes for all snow vehicles even city trucks. While plowing even when pulling in and out of a driveway no cop in the right mind will ever give you a ticket for having your light on for caution. He also said while driving from property to property in adverse weather conditions no one will ever bother you about your blue light since you have it on for caution and to protect both yourself and fellow sharers of the road. When I get more info I will share it.


----------



## RAZOR (Dec 19, 2001)

If you move your rear licence plate because your salter blocks it, don't forget to have a small white light shining it or that could also be a ticket.


----------



## pusher21 (Dec 17, 2007)

cet;465394 said:


> In regards to the Blue light while plowing highways and roads is. You are plowing your parking lot, when you pull out on the road to turn around or push snow back into your lot you are not allowed to have the light on because you are not actually plowing the town/city roads. I run my blue light in the parking lot and turn it off from site to site. If they change to orange I will just change the lens.
> 
> They had a blitz here last year where they ticketed people that had their front plate blocked by the plow. They actually ticketed 4 of the town trucks. No one said these guys are practical. I was going to get the licence plate ticket but I couldn't find my CVOR so I got that ticket instead, $80. Good job I couldn't find it because if I had I would of gotten a ticket for not filling out my log book, $390.


Hey when are you required to have a cvor number? TIA Jordan


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

pusher21;468585 said:


> Hey when are you required to have a cvor number? TIA Jordan


MTO - Commercial Vehicle Operators Registration (CVOR)
October 12, 2001 (Copyright) Queen's Printer for Ontario, 1999. This is an unofficial version of Government of Ontario legal materials. For accurate reference refer to the official volumes.

WHICH VEHICLES ARE INCLUDED IN CVOR?
CVOR applies to trucks and tractors with a registered gross weight or an "actual weight" of more than 4,500 kg (9,920 lbs). "Actual weight" means the weight of the truck or tractor only, which may include weight transferred to it by an attached trailer. Also applies to buses with a seating capacity for 10 or more passengers.

Exceptions: ambulances, fire apparatus, hearses and casket wagons, mobile cranes, motor homes, tow trucks, buses when used for personal transportation, empty vehicles operating under dealer plates or "in transit" permits, and vehicles leased for not longer than 30 days for personal use.

WHAT IS A CVOR?
CVOR is the registration system for operators of commercial motor vehicles (trucks and buses). It's the part of the Highway Traffic Act under which operators of these vehicles are identified. CVOR also allows the Ministry of Transportation (MTO) to suspend or cancel an operator's certificate.

WHO IS AN OPERATOR?
The operator is the person responsible for the vehicle and the driver. He/she is also responsible for the people or goods being moved in his/her vehicle on the highway.

ARE VAN POOL VEHICLES INCLUDED IN CVOR?
Van pool vehicles with a seating capacity for 10 or more passengers are included.

MUST I OWN A TRUCK OR BUS TO OBTAIN A CVOR?
No. If you lease or contract vehicles you are required to hold a CVOR certificate.

IF AN OPERATOR HAS A NUMBER OF OPERATING DIVISIONS, MUST EACH DIVISION REGISTER IN CVOR?
No. Such an operator requires only one certificate.

IF AN OPERATOR IS A CORPORATION AND HAS SUBSIDIARIES, MUST EACH SUBSIDIARY REGISTER IN CVOR?
Yes. Each separate corporation or company is required to register.

HOW DO I REGISTER IN CVOR?
To register, an operator simply gets an application from any MTO office. Mail or deliver the completed application to the address shown on the form. The ministry will mail the CVOR certificate to the operator.

IS THERE A REGISTRATION FEE?
No. However, there is a fee for a replacement CVOR certificate.

WHAT IS A CVOR CERTIFICATE?
A CVOR certificate is a legal document. Each CVOR bears a unique identification number.

WHAT DO I DO WITH THE CERTIFICATE?
The certificate or a legible copy must be carried in any truck and bus operated on the highway under that certificate number. The certificate must be surrendered for inspection upon the request of an officer.

MUST LEASED VEHICLES CARRY A COPY OF THE CERTIFICATE?
No. The lease or contract must contain the operator's CVOR number. This does not apply if the vehicle is exempt from CVOR, (leased for not longer than 30 days for personal use).

MUST VEHICLES WITH OUT-OF-PROVINCE LICENCE PLATES CARRY A CVOR CERTIFICATE?
If an operator has been issued a certificate, a copy must be carried. Also, if the vehicle bears prorate plates and Ontario is included on the cab card, a certificate must be carried.

HOW DOES THE SYSTEM WORK?
When any conviction is registered against a driver or an operator, the court files a report with MTO. The ministry enters the information into the operator's record. Reportable accident information and reports on vehicle detentions for safety defects also go on the operator's record.

DOES THE CVOR SYSTEM INCLUDE CORRECTIVE ACTION AGAINST OPERATORS WITH FREQUENT CONVICTION?
Corrective action will be taken if an operator's record becomes unsatisfactory. The operator's fleet size determines the number of convictions allowed before corrective action is taken.

WHAT ACTION IS TAKEN IF AN OPERATOR'S RECORD BECOMES UNSATISFACTORY?
At the first stage, MTO will send a notice to the operator advising that an unsatisfactory record exists and that improvement is required. If convictions continue, the operator may be asked to meet with an MTO official to discuss the record. The official will decide on the necessary corrective action.

HOW LONG DO CONVICTIONS REMAIN ON AN OPERATOR'S RECORD?
Infractions remain on the record for five years from the date of conviction. However, they count toward corrective action levels for a period of only two years from the date of offence.

CAN AN OPERATOR LOSE OPERATING PRIVILEGES?
Yes. If an operator continues to build an unsatisfactory record, the Registrar of Motor Vehicles may suspend or cancel the operator's CVOR for all or part of the fleet.

IS CORRECTIVE ACTION AUTOMATIC OR IS DISCRETION APPLIED?
All corrective measures are discretionary. The operator will be given an opportunity to both explain and correct unsatisfactory practices.

IF A CVOR IS UNDER SUSPENSION, CAN THE OPERATOR APPLY FOR ANOTHER CERTIFICATE UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME?
No. An operator is entitled to only one CVOR certificate.

CAN INDIVIDUALS NAMED IN A CVOR THAT IS UNDER SUSPENSION APPLY FOR A NEW CVOR?
No. Any person named in a CVOR that is under suspension cannot be named in any new CVOR application.

MUST A CORPORATION NOTIFY MTO OF A CHANGE IN CORPORATE OFFICERS?
Yes. The Highway Traffic Act requires operators to notify MTO of such changes within 15 days of the time the change is made.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO OBTAIN AN OPERATOR'S OR DRIVER'S CVOR RECORD?
Yes. An abstract of an operator's or driver's record can be obtained by applying to the Licensing Administration Office and paying the prescribed fee. Application forms are available at MTO offices throughout the province.

HOW LONG IS A CVOR CERTIFICATE VALID?
A CVOR certificate is valid for life or until it's no longer required.

ARE CONVICTIONS FROM OTHER JURISDICTIONS INCLUDED IN AN OPERATOR'S RECORD?
Yes. Convictions, detentions and accidents reported to MTO by other jurisdictions may be recorded.

For CVOR and Carrier Control information, contact: Carrier Sanctions and Investigation Office at (905) 704-2500 or toll-free at 1-800-387-7736 (in Ontario only)


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

RAZOR;468540 said:


> If you move your rear licence plate because your salter blocks it, don't forget to have a small white light shining it or that could also be a ticket.


Thanks I actually never thought about that, a new project for this week lol...


----------



## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

The list:

(1) Rear and front plates must be re mounted and viewable at all times. *
(2) Blue light? Get rid of it!! Put on a amber lense now!!!!!!
(3) Turn off your flashing lights in between lots. *
(4) Get the anual inspection sticker- This is a must if you have a salter in your truck.
(5) 4500kg and over you must have log book w/ daily inspections plus CVOR
(6) Tie down anything loose in the box of your truck ie shovels, Tim's cups even loose salt granualls.
(7) Get your truck on a scale before you get caught in a blits. Make sure your truck is within its weight catagorys- If your paying reg plates prices you need to boost up your weight.
(8) In bed salters must have a headache rack on the truck

* These are the things I have been stung on over the past five years. No matter how much you try to be within the law they will always find something to get you on. Its the typicial money grab.


----------



## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Every year in these parts the MTO City police seem to go on the blits. These blits fall in the morning hours and will cost you coin. Last season I was pulled over for having my *BLUE* light on while leaving a lot, driving 500yrds, stopping at a light and turning it off. The officer was in a unmarked black pick up and pulled me over. Convined that I was a snow plow fellon he went though the truck and checked everything comming back with a 130.00 fine. This for having my blue light on. As I got madder, he got stupider. Threatinging me for fines for having a loose shovel in the back and two Tim's cups back there. (insecure load) Later he told me that I needed to remove the built up salt on my bumper for it to was a Insucure load. 

So what can you do?? Take the stupid advice of the officer shut up pay your ticket. The more you get aggrevated the stupider the fines will get. Ya, sure there are lots of plow truck on the road that should be retired but mine was a 03 Dodge with new everything on the truck. Not to mention the 5 blue lights flashing. Sooner or later you will be on the recieving end of this one.

This year I had my plates removed off a Vehicle. Pulled over by the MTO for the typicial BS. Thought I had everything covered. Nope, see I had a older snow blower in the back of the truck and overfilled the fuel tank earler that morning. The officer smelt fuel and saw a ring of oil under the wet ground of the truck. Came back to the truck and removed the plates from the truck. :realmad:

At least I had pulled over off the road and into a public lot. If I was still on the road they would of had it towed. Still had to tow the truck and have it reinspected and plated. Yep this snow plow thing cost lots of coin, don't forget to pay up for the local MTO.

Also don't forget the to date insurance card, onwer ships, ect ect ect.payupMTO

DAFF


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

Cops in Windsor must be asses, cuz Ive never heard of these horror stories in Toronto.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

DAFFMOBILEWASH;468667 said:


> The list:
> 
> ((2) Blue light? Get rid of it!! Put on a amber lense now!!!!!!
> (4) Get the anual inspection sticker- This is a must if you have a salter in your truck.
> ...


----------



## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

As per the blue light, sure go ahead and keep it on your truck. Put a flag on your truck that says "PICK ME". 

The anual inspection is NOT for the salter but for your truck. As soon as you put a salter in your truck it will now be considered commercial thus you need the yellow sticker on it.

Another name for the headache rack is a Back Rack, these are the pieces of steel bolted to the bed of the truck to prevent stuff from crashing through your back window.

All I know is around here you better cross your T's and dot you I's if you don't want to be bothered. Once they pick you don't fool yourself, you will more than likely get a yellow slip with your name on the top. If you only get one you are lucky!!!!!

DAFF


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Oasis;468810 said:


> DAFFMOBILEWASH;468667
> What the heck is a headache rack?[/QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> > Same as a Back Rack and you don't need one. I've plowed in the Mississauga, Etobicoke are for 18 years and my dad has for like 20 years before that and we havn't even been pulled over once (touch wood) and we have alot of stuff roaming around all winter. I have been pulled over twice in the last 18 years with one of our farm trucks and the guy was really nice and told me what was wrong and let me go. All our lights have always been amber on edit.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Daf is corrrect about needing the yellow certification sticker on your truck with a salter. If your pulling a tandem axle landscape trailer you'll need one anyway. I think it's a good idea getting your truck inspected every year, so I don't mind paying for it.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

I dont say that its not a good idea but I am curious if you are under the gross max weight for commercial vehicles is it the law, and if so where does it say so. As for the back rack, another great idea but absolutely not the law. As for the blue lights, could people please state whether they are sharing their opinion or law and if law please state your sources because it becomes very confusing for people trying to find legitimate information.


----------



## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Two seasons ago the MTO was all over people with the larger in bed V Box salters. If you had one you better of had a Back Rack. Know of two different companies which felt the wrath of a over zellus MTO officers. If the cargo in a truck is higher than the sides of the box than a headache rack is required by law. This rule holds true from the big trucks. I'm not saying the rule isn't stupid, I can see the point of it but to write a ticket out for it is silly to say the least.

Just look at the designs for the flat deck trucks, they allways have a wall to protect the occupants of the vehicle. Same as the pannel vans, i'm sure part of it is liability issues but who is to say. I'm not for all the rules of the MTO but some do have good points. I am just passing on the word of how they can become PITA and wreck your night. Watch next year we will have to get a plowing licence from the Prov. Gov. as another $$ grab.

DAFF


----------



## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

If your truck is lettered, used in a commercial mannor, licenced as commercial or has a 4500kg weight rating or higher then you must have a (yellow annual)commercial sticker. If you scale over 4501kg you need to run a log book with a daily inspection sheet and a sticker.

The blue light thing isn't in stone as of yet. When it is trust me there will be a blitz and you will get a ticket. The bad thing about this is there will be not warning or memo just a fine. If you look at a police vehicle and you see blue lights there is your proof. Don't even try to pass into the US with the blue lights on your truck. I swear the officers at the border will practically pull thier guns out!! (inpersonating a police officer) 

For those who have never has any issues with the police or MTO you are lucky, myself in this region they are terrible. Not sure if it is because of the location of the city of Windsor vs Detroit, or if they are just trying to fill a quota. Dosn't matter much for every season it is a new issue or something to grab a quick buck from us the working class.

DAFF


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

*The Blue Light Debate*

Ok I dont know if anyone else still cares about this but the latest is this. I was out salting and I waived down a Toronto Cop Car to ask them some questions. This is what they said. There is no current by-law prohibiting the use of flashing blue lights on snow vehicles and even though we are not actual 'Road Service Vehicles" while plowing we preform the same service and therefore are allowed to use the flashing blue lights. The only concern is while driving from job to job. Now no one is supposed to have flashing blue lights when not actually plowing and this includes ALL city road service vehicles. So even city plows that have flashing blue lights when they are not plowing or salting are breaking the law. However, in situations like the December 16th storm using flashing blue lights when you believe visibility is poor and they are in the best interests of both the plow driver and other drivers use them anyways. No cop should give you a fine for having them on in this situation and if they ever do no judge will ever up hold it if you tell them what the conditions were and that you were looking out for everyones safety. By the way I spoke to cruisier number MTPD 3206.tymusic


----------

