# V-box vs. Tailgate??



## EGLC (Nov 8, 2007)

I would like some suggestions and advice here. I currently service one small condo and 25 drives. I salt the condo obviously and about 15 of the drives. I plan on growing and will be purchasing a second 2500HD this spring. 

My choices are a used insert or a new snow-ex 575.


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## SnowMatt13 (Jan 8, 2003)

First thing I can think of is over-loading and who's driving.
We had a tailgate on a Dodge 3500 at work. Well, with 1 bobcat bucket of salt in it it was at it's legal max weight. But that didn't stop some from loading it to the top....and somehow it was probably related to the transmission we replaced on a yearly basis.
My new 1-ton I put a snow-ex 8500. Looks awkward in a dump box and I've gotten some comments on why I didn't go tailgate but with that loaded the truck squats and is almost at it's max.....


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

V Boxes really limit visibility. If your spreading 1 ton or less/storm I'd go with a tailgate. JMO


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## EGLC (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm just going to go with the 575 for now and add a used v-box next year if needed


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

you've got the right idea......BUT, you may have better performance going with a 2 stage tailgate, you can find used airflo units reasonably cheap or a western pro flo maybe. If you're only using bagged material you'd probably be OK with a single stage unit.


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

My 6' Insert with spreader would work great for you. You can hold about 2 yds and you can use the insert in the summer time for landscaping materials. 

I need to get a larger unit. I picked up a ton of salting this year and I have to fill up twice per run.


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## EGLC (Nov 8, 2007)

forestfireguy;939011 said:


> you've got the right idea......BUT, you may have better performance going with a 2 stage tailgate, you can find used airflo units reasonably cheap or a western pro flo maybe. If you're only using bagged material you'd probably be OK with a single stage unit.


I will keep a look out for one! thanx for the info



hlntoiz;939121 said:


> My 6' Insert with spreader would work great for you. You can hold about 2 yds and you can use the insert in the summer time for landscaping materials.
> 
> I need to get a larger unit. I picked up a ton of salting this year and I have to fill up twice per run.


except that my current chevy won't ever get an insert. I'm buying a 8' bed 2500hd in the spring and will throw a insert in it and a tailgate spreader then.


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

EGLC;939127 said:


> except that my current chevy won't ever get an insert. I'm buying a 8' bed 2500hd in the spring and will throw a insert in it and a tailgate spreader then.


I have an 8' bed too. I wanted a 6' so I can get my tool box in the truck also. When you load the 6' with salt or topsoil or what ever that is the max a 1 ton truck can carry for the GVWR. Works out good. Look in the For sale section I have it posted there.


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## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

Sounds like you already made up your mind. All I will say is there are a lot of vbox guys around here. I would bet that most dont ever make a penny on their machines. Sort of like every yahoo that starts a LCO has to buy a 60" rider. A nice tailgate spreader will pay for itself much faster. Size wise stay over 400lbs capacity. Sure you can save money on bulk salt, but if you spend an hour or 2 getting it, then have to chop out the leftovers it starts to make the tailgate model look a little better.


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

Racer, I think you're WAY WAY off base with that V-Box comment. Our V Boxes will make us at an estimated $300,000 this winter, up from last seasons actual of $200,000. Thats about 70 grand per unit, not bad earnings for a machine that costs about 7 grand and lasts for 3-4 years(longer actually but we replace them before they become big problems). Loading can be troublesome if you aren't using alot of salt but that's why each tool has it's place, but that comment was just silly. There are plenty of guys making even more on them than us. If you are doing primarily residential/small business work a tailgate is probably the right fit. But a 2 stage can be more flexible than a single stage.


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## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

I'm very happy for you that you actually use your vbox's. Just like you there are many that do make it profitable. I'm a skeptical of your numbers though. Sure it's possible running dedicated machines, but most are not doing that. Most guys around here are running 1 load or less per event, they make nothing. As for your 70K. I'm pretty sure your accountant can tell you that 1/10th of that is more than likely your take in the end.


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

forestfireguy;939754 said:


> Racer, I think you're WAY WAY off base with that V-Box comment. Our V Boxes will make us at an estimated $300,000 this winter, up from last seasons actual of $200,000. Thats about 70 grand per unit, not bad earnings for a machine that costs about 7 grand and lasts for 3-4 years(longer actually but we replace them before they become big problems). Loading can be troublesome if you aren't using alot of salt but that's why each tool has it's place, but that comment was just silly. There are plenty of guys making even more on them than us. If you are doing primarily residential/small business work a tailgate is probably the right fit. But a 2 stage can be more flexible than a single stage.


So according to this site how much do you make per inch? 10k 20k 30k???? Just curious


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## CARDOCTOR (Nov 29, 2002)

if you run a vbox youll save $$$$$$$$$ on salt plus getting out and filling the hopper with bagged is a pita.


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

CARDOCTOR;940342 said:


> if you run a vbox youll save $$$$$$$$$ on salt plus getting out and filling the hopper with bagged is a pita.


Not necessarely, I think there is one important variable to consider. It all depends on how much salting you do. If you only have one commerical lot property (a gas station for example) then is it cost effective to use bulk salt? You have to, make a bin, store the salt, pay rent/mortgage on the area you are storing the salt, and then you have to have another machine to load it (plus all the overhead of the machine).

Bulk salt is only cost effective when you have enough work for it. JMO Only the contractor can make that assessment.


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

Racer- I don't need the accountant to know that our margins for salt are a whole bunch higher than 10%, if thats all they were we'd stay home. You are correct though that many do not run dedicated pieces, we don't. Our route captains have plows and the salters, and as soon as operations/storm dictate they stop plowing and start salting. Here in NJ and I suspect across the industry the highest margins are in salt. We are very proactive on ice patrols as well, never servicing without a good reason, but we are generally out for 2 days after a storm making sure things are clear, no refreeze or blown snow issues. NJ is possibly the litigation capital of the world(exageration) but it's pretty bad, most of our customers demand high levels of service, and they all expect it.


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

HLNTOIZ, 

I never looked at it that way.......But to justify a little, that salt number includes calcium apps to walkways on seasonals, others are per bag or per app and then considered a seperate number. I don't know why it's that way, but has been much longer than I've been there...........


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## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

forestfireguy;940458 said:


> Here in NJ and I suspect across the industry the highest margins are in salt. .


I'll agree with you on that.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

hlntoiz;940352 said:


> Not necessarely, I think there is one important variable to consider. It all depends on how much salting you do. If you only have one commerical lot property (a gas station for example) then is it cost effective to use bulk salt? * You have to, make a bin, store the salt, pay rent/mortgage on the area you are storing the salt, and then you have to have another machine to load it (plus all the overhead of the machine). *
> 
> Bulk salt is only cost effective when you have enough work for it. JMO Only the contractor can make that assessment.


I don't have to do any of this.


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

cretebaby;940664 said:


> I don't have to do any of this.


Not all of us live on a farm in the middle of a corn field:laughing::laughing: U probably use beet juice for deicing anyway :laughing:


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

I thought about a tailgate unit when I was just starting to get into salting. Sure it would be nice to have a pallet of salt sitting in the garage to load unload at my leisure, but not having to stand in the bed of the truck @ 3am to throw 100lbs of salt in for a driveway is priceless when I just hit the electric start and engage the clutch and drive out... 30 seconds to salt an average driveway. The ROI on my salter is HUGE.

I would salt all day long if I could. So much easier on the truck (other than rust) and its quick easy money if you're set up properly.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

hlntoiz;940788 said:


> Not all of us live on a farm in the middle of a corn field:laughing:


Don't knock it 'til you try it. 



hlntoiz;940788 said:


> U probably use beet juice for deicing anyway :laughing:


I thought it was beAt juice.


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

cretebaby;940934 said:


> Don't knock it 'til you try it.
> I lived in Chadron, Nebraska for 2 years. Close enough.
> 
> I thought it was beAt juice.
> Sorry forgot to use spell check


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

You can't make better money than salting ......................


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## dmontgomery (Oct 3, 2003)

I tried to run bulk thru my 575 a couple of yrs ago........it would not flow.......add an 80lbs, vibrator and you will be fine.....


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## P.L. (Dec 15, 2007)

I just put a air flo mss on my truck this year and love it. I only treat two lots every storm one is around 12,000 square ft the other probably 9,000 and a couple bad driveways. I agree that it's a pain to load it all the time and to load the truck before every Storm but it's not that bad and you don't need a machine to do it. There are three reasons why I really like it. First I know exactly how much I use per lot, no guessing. Second I can apply different materials. On one of my lots I apply just ice melt. My buddy sanded it for me last year and my customer did not like the mess it made in the store and in the lot. Now with the ice melt the lot is clear and the store stays much cleaner. The other lot I do and the driveways I use sand and salt. I buy it in bulk then fill up 5 gallon pails, it's cheaper than ice melt and I don't care about the mess at these places. Lastly after each account the sander is empty. I like this because there is no freezing of material, also nothing to empty out after the storm, just wash and get ready for the next storm. Every piece of equipment has it's application. I know guys who have 4 or more V box's on the road and make money hand over fist with them. For me this is my first year with my own spreader and the Air-flo fits my needs much better. It might be a little more work but I can deal with it for the reasons above.


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## Gary @ Shamrock (Nov 15, 2009)

*V-Box*

I had trouble deciding between a tailgate spreader and a v-box. I went with a Saltdogg poly 1.5yd unit in the 6.5 ft bed of my F250. It works great on everything including a mix (as long as you keep the vibrator running). I had a problem (moisture) with the spreader motor and it was replaced under warranty. You do lose your rear view mirror, but even more so you lose your bed storage and carrying capabilities. I used to haul a snowblower with me, but now cannot. Although you gain the bed space with the tailgate units you can only swing them (assuming you get that option) to open the tailgate when they are empty. That doesn't do much good during a storm when you would want to remove the snowblower.

I plan two modifications or additions to my rig. Most loader buckets are wider than the box is long so you get a lot of product either in the bed or on the ground. I want to put on some removable wings for the loading process. Then I want to fabricate a piece to go into my trailer hitch that will extend beyond the spreader with a spreader and two uprights (like a goal post) to protect the (expensive) spreader unit from cars rearending me or in the event I back into something. I'll probably do it up in reflective tape.

There you go with my thoughts and my experience. Good luck.

Gary @ Shamrock Landscaping


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Buy yourself a vbox and you will find yourself getting more accounts because it is alot easier than messing with bags. You can make yourself a route and not have to reload which results in more money per outing.


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