# No Expenses allowed in Domestic Relatons Court for Snow Plowing Co.



## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

In Summit County Ohio, Judge John Quinn's Court of Domestic Relations, Magistrate Tracy Stoner came with a finding against a snow plow contractor that is in a divorce.

The man was NOT allowed to claim "ordinary and necessary" deductions for his snow removal company in papers filed on 2-1-06. His GROSS income was used to calculate his support of his almost x wife and children. 

I saw the work sheet my self. This is no bull. With 50% of the people in our country in divorce we in this business are in trouble when you can not claim ordinary and necessary expenses. 

These judges and magistrates are now on the "Summit County Ohio government WALL OF SHAME"

This finding is being appealed.


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*no responses?*

Does anyone have a response? Anyone feel mad? Anyone feel good that this man got ripped? There is 50% divorce in this country. Anyone of us could be next.

This court is out of line. This magistrate should be fired. The man has the right to live. He should pay support with money that is left after normal and necessary expenses. That is the money that was used when they were married. They were not able to use the money used for expenses for other items when married so why can she use that expense money for support because she wanted a divorce? Has this magistrate figured out how to run a snow plow company with out expenses?

Dave


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## imdawrlus (Sep 13, 2005)

the court system is screwed up...beleve me i know.....

my mom has a "friend" who she sends dirty emails to and he sends them back...she disapears in the car all day and puts 200 miles on in a day...hmm where do you think shes going?? this guy lives 1.5 hours away....hes the chief of police in rindge NH....he calles her 3 times a day while on duty....

my dad hasent done anything wrong....my mom claims that he 'sexually abuses her'....thats bull.....its not like he ties her up and does painfull things to her against her will.....who knows, its between them two but i think its bull....

anyways she got a weeklong restraining order on him a couple weeks ago....he went to court and the order was taken off.....hes alloud back in the house now, but he cant sleep here....

the thing i've learned is that women have all the power when it comes to this kind of stuff....and if my mom can do something like this, any woman can....she cant handle herself....she cant handle all the rights shes given....what even happened to equal rights?? my dad sure as hell dont have any......


mods, please dont delete this this time


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Dave,
IMO Seems to me these days whomever has the best attorney wins !
You are correct that the judge should be strung up by his you know whats (if he railroaded the guy) but I bet her attorney has an "in" with this judge.
What was he trying to claim as expenses ? It wasnt the convertable vette right ? Also what is the size of the operation ? He might just have an atv, that he claims cost's 30k a year to keep out there.
What other line of work is he in ? If the guy is 365 days a year snow then this judge should be held in contempt of his own court room. 
I would be surprised if the guy is legit and the appeal does not over turn the ruling.
Todd


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## hickslawns (Dec 18, 2004)

T-Man is right. there are a lot of variables we don't know about this deal. As far as 50% divorce rate and anyone of us could be next, I know my solution. My solution is as follows: Continue living an honest life (no drugs, drinking in moderation), and keep my boys where they belong (in my pants or in my own bedroom with my wife). I don't have to worry about a divorce unless I give my wife a reason to want to divorce me. I don't beat her, cheat on her, scream at her, or do any drugs. I figure as long as I am supporting the family and living with good moral fiber I am okay. As far as the judge is concerned in the mentioned case, it doesn't sound good for precedence for future cases. This is not good, and the judge sounds way out of line. However, as mentioned, we don't have all the info.


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## imdawrlus (Sep 13, 2005)

> My solution is as follows: Continue living an honest life (no drugs, drinking in moderation), and keep my boys where they belong (in my pants or in my own bedroom with my wife). I don't have to worry about a divorce unless I give my wife a reason to want to divorce me. I don't beat her, cheat on her, scream at her, or do any drugs. I figure as long as I am supporting the family and living with good moral fiber I am okay.


your wrong.....you just described how my dad treats my mom and look at where he is now.......in my eyes all women are the same......


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*the point here*

The point here is not what caused the divorce. Our state has no fault divorce. The point here is the man was not allowed to use the part of the form that allowed him to subtract the normal and necessary expences of snow removal and salting from his gross income. This makes the net income much higher on the support forms. When they were together this man paid for the truck, salt, insurance, subcontractors, plow, salt spreader, the normal necessary business expences how ever in this court this was not allowed to be claimed.

Yes it does not matter how good you are when she says you are done you are out with cloths on back.

Has anyone else ever had a DR court not allow normal and customary expences? This is out of control here in Summit County Ohio.

Dave


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Dave, I see your point. 
Do you know this guy personally ? It allmost sounds like you do. Imo it sounds like this gals attorney is doing his/her homework. I still smell a rat though. Just my gut.
Did this fellow walk into court prepared ? Did he piss the judge off ? 
I really doubt the judge would care less if the guy plowed snow, or drove limo's for a living. 
2 things I learned along time ago in life
BE PREPARED, if you want to piss a judge off walk into court looking like a fool, and dont have your ducks in a row. They will toss you out with your head spinning. Ever been to small claims court ?
ALLWAYS hire the best lawyer you can not afford for anything were your ass is on the line. From dwi to divorce it is amazing what a good lawyer can pull off. The big shots charge 500 and up an hour for a reason, they dont lose.
Todd


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*T man*

I know this person as he use to work for us. He is a stand up guy. He is truthful and honest. He was working 2 jobs to keep his family in a nice house. In our area snow plowing is a good second job. Not enough snow to make it all year unless you get real big.

The part I have a real hard time with is no necessary deductions allowed for business. I have been in business 34 years and have had expenses for every year. To not allow the expenses the federal government allows is criminal. This is so out of line I am mad.

Has anyone else not been able to claim necessary and usual business deductions?

Dave


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Dave
Is the business a legitimate one ? As in he pays taxes and insurance,and is properly registered with the county. Is there a way to dissolve the business ? Possibly sell it for a dollar to a trusting friend. 
If he is moonlighting for extra income then just stop. I no you cant quit your day job anymore to go work for Mickey D's but how can they force you to keep moonlighting ? I would flat out tell the judge I am done. If he/she (judge) does not see it as a legitimate business, with proper expenses/deductions to show how can they force you to stay with it right ? 
Sounds like he needs a good buddy to step up and take over the business that obviously is not legitimate in the judges eyes. So it must not be worth anything in the judges eyes as well. If this guy is in a gunfight he needs to start shooting. I just watched my wifes brother roll over and piss all over himself like a baby in his divorce. Made me sick. Kick your buddy in the ass and tell him to come out with guns blazin. Screw everyone but the kids. He is fight en for his life here. 
Oh and yes I have been divorced so I have been down that road.

Todd


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*yes legit business*

Yes he ran an above board tax paying IRS approved business. He paid taxes after he deducted his normal business expenses for many years. He went to court with 5 years income tax papers. He and atty presented them and this is the outcome with reference to his snow plow company. The other parts of divorce were just as uterine friendly. I did not bring this up as this is a snow plow site not a divorce site. Yes I am just as upset with the local court in all aspects of this divorce but the part I still have a real problem with is this magistrate thinks this man has no expenses operating a snow plow company.

From other postings on the two snow plow sites I visit I see where the public thinks we have very little to no expenses in operating a snow plow company. Guess ignorance is in all walks of life.

Maybe I need to ask this magistrate Stoner how you operate a snow removal and salting company with no expenses. Maybe I have been doing it wrong for 34 years! (little humor)

Dave


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*appeal findings*

The judge did NOT over turn the magistrates ruling in the appeal. His child support is based on the GROSS INCOME WITH NO "NECESSARY" EXPENSES ALLOWED". The line in the work sheet is -0-. I saw that with own eyes.

I got the copy of the findings off of the net. Snow plow contractors beware!

From the findings of this magistrate and judge we must be wrong in paying our invoices for equipment, labor and fuel. I must be wrong in paying my bills.

Dave


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Dave I still smell a Rat here. Guess its time for your buddy to hang it up. If the business has no deductions why bother. Can he really afford to keep the door open ? No snow this year in most areas and he still turned a profit right? I guess I find this really hard to believe. I would ask the judge flat out if they have deductable expenses in there line of work, and what they were. Just so I could be educated on what is deductable in his court room. I would then proceed to ask what there accounting/tax preparing/tax law background was to interpet the deductions.. If he is an elected official there tax returns are public info correct ? I would certainly obtain a copy and pay my accountant to look it over and let me know all the deductions they had. After all a judge should not have anything deductable in there line of work correct ? Maybe bring that up in court as well.
There not GOD Dave, treat em like they treat you. 
Secondly If the guy is the squeeky clean wheel I would drag the IRS into the case. Judges dont make the laws they are supposed to interpet them, who better then an expert witness to help them interpet them.
Oh and tell your Buddy to fire his attorney, and find a fire breathing no morals Jewish one.(no insults ment here, there the best, and they fear nothing, including a-hole judges)
I know of a couple in Chicago, they dont loose and they dont piss there pants in court. There down right arrogant, nasty, fire breathing monsters. But who do you want on your team when the -hit gets deep, and it sounds like its getting real deep here.
Todd


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

What did the appeals Judge reference too ? Was there a previous case that set precedent ? Or was it just the good OL'Boys backin each other up ? If the answer to the second question is yes then shame on your buddy and his attorney. Take it to the next level. Research and having your Ducks in a row pays off. If they walked into court without doing any research then they deserve to lose.
Todd


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*appeal went bad*

Between the mail service notifying him of the first outcome of the hearing, weekend, atty re mailing the findings of the first hearing, him making up his mind and refiling the appeal he went over the appeal filing time. The atty and court took his money to file the appeal knowing full well it was a moot point.

The thing I am still not understanding is how can any judge or magistrate even have the remotest idea that you have a company that has no expenses. This happened to this man in the snow plowing business. I have never heard of such a thing that is why I have ask this question on here. When I don't pay my bills I usually end up in court. This as you say smells like a rat and the rat is wearing black robes and is paid by us.

Dave


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

Half of nothing , is nothing.


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*half of nothing is nothing*

The bad thing is he works as a skilled tradesman for a company full time and does the snow plowing after hours and on weekends. So the GROSS income of the snow removal company is added to his "A" job, with the usual and necessary deductions not being deducted on the work sheet His gross income will be "A" job plus the snow removal and salting company gross income. The Summit County Ohio DR court then takes that amount and will attach his wages at the "A" job and he gets what is left. Which in this case is a negative number when he purchases fuel for driving to work.

I hear what you are saying and if he only worked for him self that could be the case. That is what is so wrong with this decision.

Dave


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

No judge is going to get re elected by reducing child support , or granting custody to the male parent. A real good friend of mine went thru a divorce , there were a lot of bills that they both accrued . So he started working overtime like crazy , as much as 25 hours a week to pay these bills off and be able to start fresh . WRONG thing to do , when child support was awarded 1 year later it was based on his total earnings INCLUDING overtime . Now he was forced to work all this overtime to pay the higher child support. Plus the ex was to stay in the home for 3 years before it could be sold . At the end of the week with a net take home pay of 700.00 less child support and half of daycare he had $ 198.00 . The moral of this story is , if it is going to happen and you can see it coming , cover your assett . do what you have to do in your situation to be able to live .


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*Mdirrigation*

That is to bad when a man works overtime and operates a snow plowing - salting company to get his family some of the better things in life then the wife finds another lover. This is something we all in snow removal have to watch out for. There is a fine line between working for the family and working to much. With the divorce laws being so uterine friendly the man is at a disadvantage. 
With regards to this judge getting reelected, well we have gone to the AFL-CIO and the UAW political divisions and got them to not support this judge in his bid for reelection. The 2 labor groups have also pledged to not support any judge that acts in the manner described in this post. In our part of country it is very labor organization oriented. With out these endorsements and money to run his campaign he has a real hard time winning the elections. We can only hope that actions like this are not rewarded by them being reelected.


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## MBB (Oct 29, 2005)

In Wisconsin, No Fault (?) divorce, child support 25% of gross 1st child, 17% of same gross for each one there after, they do not care if it adds up to more than you take home, they just come after you for non or incomplete support & file leins like mad. There is no relief either, its like a uncurable desease in this state.


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## mmwb (Jan 12, 2005)

As stated above, there are alot of variables we don't know about. If the magistrate is indeed incompetent, then it should get cleared up on appeal. Unfortunately the appeals process will cost the guy several more thousand dollars in attorney's fees: Though that will be significantly less than he'll loose if accepts the current ruling.


".......in my eyes all women are the same......"

You need to adjust your vision. There are some bad apples in every barrel, but the majority of women, men, whites, blacks, christians, muslims, etc... are good people. Don't let a few bad experiences create a poorely skewed view of the whole world. If you figure, all of the people we know (good or bad) are still too small of a sample to represent the whole country, much less the whole world.


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*am I blind ?*

The plaintiff and his attorney had some words this afternoon. The attorney could not understand why this man was complaining about not being able to deduct necessary business expenses. Am I blind or am I paying expenses that I do not need to pay? Do all people think snow plowing is a profit only business with no expenses? This man has a college degree and can not understand that a business has expenses! The magistrate and Judge also don't understand business 101!

Does the real world also think we just set back and "plow in the money" with no expenses? Has anyone ran into someone that thinks we have no expenses operating our business?

Dave


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