# Need business advice



## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

I'm about to buy a used MVP plus in great shape for a decent price. It includes everything for the fleet flex stuff and I can probably sell the mount/receivers since they don't fit my dodge. It would be replacing my first generation MVP ultramount that I want to keep around as a back up.

Problem is, it hasn't snowed much here at all for the last 4 years and there's no guarantee that it'll ever hit normal yearly amounts. I've weighed the cons and pros of buying it, and I'm still on the fence if this is a good investment or if I'm making a really incredibly dumb decision.

I have the money for it, although I had to dip into my personal account to cover the cost and take a small loan on my 401K. I welcome any and all input.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

Why are you replacing the older mvp? Why not just keep it and not spend anything?


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Use what you have until you find an absolutely smoking deal. I would never buy snow equip this time of year unless i got a deal i could not say no to. Once you have signed contracts for next year, shop hard for good deals but why buy now if not deal of the decade. 
If you are bent on spending money are there not things you can buy now that will start making you money as the weather breaks. If they work out, pay them off and save for the better plow in the fall. Just my 2 cents. 
I would NEVER take money out of retirement funds to buy a plow. Cant see that being a good idea. There are always good deals if your patient. Magically they keep making product and always divorces, business failures, retirements, business realignments..... Always another even better deal down the road. Be patient, save your $$


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Without seeing the condition of the plow, or the price, a little hard to tell. But, to take a loan like you stated, and just like here, the lack of snow, not a wise thing to do at this time.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

You're taking a loan from your 401k for a used plow with no guarantee of work............................oooooook


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

The original post has failure written all over it.

Seriously? Borrowing money from anywhere to buy a USED PLOW IN MARCH!!!


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Rick W gave sound advice...Save your pennys..Look for good deals...This business is littered with failures...Keep your 401k money where it is...That's your retirement...Not a snow plow


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

let's not degrade the OP, but rather, give him some decent reasons why or why not to make the purchase.

thanks


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Sorry Mike...some people have thicker skin than others...look at Oomkes.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

Here's pics of the plow. To me it seems like a good deal for $3k


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

All the fleet flex harnesses and controller.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> Here's pics of the plow. To me it seems like a good deal for $3k
> 
> View attachment 171348
> 
> ...


While it may be a good deal.........using 401k money is not a good deal.

You have yet to answer what is wrong with your old one. Or why you need a backup if snow is unsure.

But it really is up to you........no one has suggested it's a good idea. Other than you. You asked for advice, you got it.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

Mark Oomkes said:


> While it may be a good deal.........using 401k money is not a good deal.
> 
> You have yet to answer what is wrong with your old one. Or why you need a backup if snow is unsure.
> 
> But it really is up to you........no one has suggested it's a good idea. Other than you. You asked for advice, you got it.


Other than some cracked welds on the trip edge, there's absolutely nothing wrong with my MVP. I've welded gussets around the base of the lift frame so it won't notoriously break.

It's obvious that people are unloading snow stuff like smelly garbage. The only nice thing about the MVP plus is way faster hydraulics. Does that justify the capital? I have no idea.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> Here's pics of the plow. To me it seems like a good deal for $3k
> 
> View attachment 171348
> 
> ...


It might be a GREAT deal, I don't know. BUT, not for you, not now. If you had cash for it that would be a GREAT deal FOR YOU.

I would love to buy a new 1025R, with a cab and a loader, a front blower and a push box.
But I can't for 2 reasons
1) I don't have enough cash, we have savings, it's for emergencies, not for tractors.
2) our winters are nothing compared to what they used to be. I can't justify the expense when we have 62* days in Feb. and Mar.

I"m not calling you stupid, or your idea, but my financial adviser will


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Same thing here, I was going to update to a wideout. I didn't, there's been almost no snow. No need to spend money and have it be a lawn ornament. And I would not go into any retirement funds for a used plow.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

jonniesmooth said:


> It might be a GREAT deal, I don't know. BUT, not for you, not now. If you had cash for it that would be a GREAT deal FOR YOU.
> 
> I would love to buy a new 1025R, with a cab and a loader, a front blower and a push box.
> But I can't for 2 reasons
> ...


Then I won't buy anything and use what I got.


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

The money you would borrow from your 401K might be very expensive. Before going one step further I encourage you to find out the cost of that transaction and add it to the cost of the plow. Still a good deal?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> Then I won't buy anything and use what I got.


Bingo....................... Go slow with caution.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

Herm Witte said:


> The money you would borrow from your 401K might be very expensive. Before going one step further I encourage you to find out the cost of that transaction and add it to the cost of the plow. Still a good deal?


It was just a $5 processing fee and the interest is $20. My weekly payment is $78 for 6 months.

I have a regular full time job to support my plowing hobby since so far it hasn't exactly been highly profitable. I don't know how you guys that depend on snow season alone survive without seasonal contracts.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> It was just a $5 processing fee and the interest is $20. My weekly payment is $78 for 6 months.
> 
> I have a regular full time job to support my plowing hobby since so far it hasn't exactly been highly profitable. I don't know how you guys that depend on snow season alone survive without seasonal contracts.


That's why there will be a lot of used items for sale soon.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

What's the biggest factor in buying/replacing equipment? Do you wait until a plow is completely wore out or until it's been depreciated out for tax purposes?


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> What's the biggest factor in buying/replacing equipment? Do you wait until a plow is completely wore out or until it's been depreciated out for tax purposes?


Your going to get all answers to that question. Each company is different, so naturally every answer to this question will be different.

Typically I wait to replace a large ticket item until it's wore out and broken. Which is usually about 1/4 of normal service life as I break everything I touch lol. But in all seriousness, I will buy new tools or equipment if what I have is outdated and new technology will increase production enough to outweigh the cost, if it's getting close to the end of its service life and cost to maintain starts getting too expensive and reliability starts going down, or in the case of trucks at the point where if I keep it much longer resale value tanks due to age or mileage. I will sell or trade in just before that point.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

I figured I'd get varying responses to my question, and I've gotten accustomed to oomkes and jd green calling me stupid lol.

Seems like 100% of the replies I got for my original thread were to not buy the plow, but I don't think anybody disagrees that the price is a good deal. 

I'm just trying to get opinions of when equipment gets replaced. I'm a very small operation compared to many on here with very limited guidance.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

You can always go with the latest and greatest versions. You can run old stuff also. That depends on your mechanical ability. But you stated you don't plow much. The one you have will show the same cash flow as the new one. If you had disposable income, buy it. But I would wait, something better may come along.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

It's just your business model you have or believe benefits you. Equipment if it's a good one some cpa is going to have a hard time telling me to trade to my advantage for tax purpose. I could build - buy another shop, Apartment building, Commercial rental property. Land. You will get a ton of different responses to this question. Everybody has different ideas when it comes to investments.

I think you got a itch to spend some money, You stated above you have not got to a earning level your happy with and how tuff it is without seasonal. I'm a FOG and had plenty of itches to spend money and have. I have bought and sold things thinking I needed. Yes if you need a truck and plow and the cpa tells you need to spend some money go for it.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> I figured I'd get varying responses to my question, and I've gotten accustomed to oomkes and jd green calling me stupid lol.
> 
> Seems like 100% of the replies I got for my original thread were to not buy the plow, but I don't think anybody disagrees that the price is a good deal.
> 
> I'm just trying to get opinions of when equipment gets replaced. I'm a very small operation compared to many on here with very limited guidance.


Don't worry about the guys above, lol. There still trying to help, When your learning this happens, I got beat up by the best of them when I was learning. lol Again forget the good deal there will be tons of them.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

I love that my truck is paid for and my MVP has paid for itself 4 times over. Wouldn't hurt to rebuild the pivot bar, the only advantage I see is faster hydraulics. And you're probably right about money burning a hole in my pocket.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Like the other guys said if money is burning a hole in your pocket, probably better to buy something that will produce revenue from now till next winter. I understand having a faster plow for sure, but you said that you don't get much snow so really is becoming more efficient worth the outlay of capitol? Or could you spend three grand on something else that will make make you 30 grand by next winter?


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

I have a 12 yrd old meyer on one of my trucks.. starting to rust out but the hydraulics and rams work perfect. As long as it keeps pushing snow i will keep it on the truck.


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## duramax plow (Aug 31, 2015)

I've bought a Dump Truck 2000 C8500. I wish I had the capital right now instead of the truck, because this Winter here was a Bust. The Dump truck was a smokin deal though. Granted, I was not depending on that money so it didn't break me. One thing I learned is you can make MORE profit having capital in the bank, then having Equipment, and no money to use it. 

Smoking deals come all the time in the snow business, because a lot of people jump in head first, crash and burn. Patience is the key, bank all the money you can until next plow season, and you will be able to truly get a good deal, like a Truck with the plow on it already.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> I've gotten accustomed to oomkes and jd green calling me stupid lol.


I never called you stupid.

Actually, I was very polite.

I was trying to keep you from making a bad decision based on the information you provided.



OneBadDodge06 said:


> And you're probably right about money burning a hole in my pocket.


Except the money isn't burning a hole in your pocket. You want to borrow to buy something that does not guarantee you will make more money or even break even.

What if it's a flaming piece of crap, breaks down the first time you plow next year? And every time after that? Just because it looks good doesn't mean it's reliable.

I have old plows and slow hydraulics on most of my trucks and I would love to upgrade, but faster hydraulics are only going to save me a marginal amount of time and money.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I didn't call you stupid. I said the idea you were proposing was stupid.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

You're blunt, always have been. Yes everyone here gave me very sound advice and I took it. There's a round of storms set to hit here this weekend and the money I make off that goes straight into my pocket, not to pay for a new toy that I don't need. 

Ultimately, there's not a thing wrong with my vee. It's not wore out, it's easy to work on, and it's paid for. I appreciate the guidance I got.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

I know you didn't, I made that comment in jest.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> You're blunt, always have been. Yes everyone here gave me very sound advice and I took it. There's a round of storms set to hit here this weekend and the money I make off that goes straight into my pocket, not to pay for a new toy that I don't need.
> 
> Ultimately, there's not a thing wrong with my vee. It's not wore out, it's easy to work on, and it's paid for. I appreciate the guidance I got.


Wise decision.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> I love that my truck is paid for and my MVP has paid for itself 4 times over. Wouldn't hurt to rebuild the pivot bar, the only advantage I see is faster hydraulics. And you're probably right about money burning a hole in my pocket.


There you go, No shame reconditioning the plow you have.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Even my financial guy didn't call you stupid, he said the stuff is stupid. Not specifically your plow, but the fancy cars,boats in his talk. 
Like he says, personal finance is 80% behavior, getting the guy in the mirror to stick to the plan.
Always looking for a deal,, it helps to look out of season, and have cash always. Opportunity cost was mentioned above too, nothing worse then buyer's remorse.
When do you replace equipment? For me, if I like it and it works well, I will maintain it till it's shot, then scrap it.
If it doesn't, sell it while it still has some value.
My first plow truck I ran till my mechanic told me the frame wasn't safe anymore.
The plow was still ok, so I put it on another truck, used that 2 years. The 4x4 shifter went bad (electric) replaced it with a manual one. It didn't work well for me.
Sold it to a friend for his private driveway for $500. He texted me this winter, "best $500 I ever spent".
It will last him the rest of his life probably.


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