# ProTech vs Avalanche



## bytor (Nov 8, 2001)

New to this forum, and finding it pretty informative. However, there's little discussion of the comparison of these pushers, and what there is is pretty old. Maybe the info is obsolete now?

So, which of these is better?

Here's what I know about them so far.

ProTech: Available locally (Kansas City). $5100 for the 14-footer, which weighs 1600 lbs. $4900 for the 12-footer, which weighs about 1450 lbs.

Avalanche: Nearest source seems to be near Chicago. $3870 for the 14-footer and $3690 for the 12-footer. 1400 lbs on the 14-footer. $700 shipping, which makes it worthwhile for me to drive out and get it except I'd probably have to pay $300 tax on it.

These prices are for the ones I'd personally use, which would be to go on a 94 Case 580SK 4WD.

Seems to me a snow-pusher is definitely the way to go since I can have my cake and eat it too. Can push a LOT of snow, then if I need to, I can easily unhook the pusher and use the 1-yard loader.

A big downside is that everything will take two trips. Can't transport the backhoe with the pusher mounted because it'd be too wide. And the pushers are too tall for the backhoe to straddle it on the trailer. I've got a 30-foot gooseneck trailer so I'm thinking *maybe* I can pull way forward on the trailer, with the loader bucket on top of the gooseneck, and use the backhoe to lift the pusher onto the trailer, rest the backhoe on it, and chain it down. I have serious doubts my truck (99 F350 DRW) can handle the backhoe being this far forward on the trailer, though. And potentially dangerous with the loader up so high and not being able to use the outriggers (because I'm on the trailer) when lifting a 1400-1600 lb pusher onto the trailer.

Maybe using the backhoe to put the pusher on top of the gooseneck (it'd clear my cab by a good foot or so -- still could have a problem with sudden inclines) before loading the backhoe?

But that's almost another subject.

The local ProTech guy is emailing me a comparo sheet for the ProTech and Avalanche and I'll post relevant portions when I get it.

In the experience of folks here, who have used both, is the ProTech enough better than the Avalanche to warrant a $1200 price difference?

Also, someone earlier mentioned wanting to be able to put a big weight in place of the backhoe bucket, which is understandable considering at least 1600 lbs being carried right on the front lip of the loader.

Mine's an extend-a-hoe, which makes it pretty heavy to start, but I plan to keep my 3-foot bucket on it when I'm pushing snow. Should be plenty, since this machine gets real light in the front end with that bucket on it. I can't even go up comparatively moderate hills without a full loader.

Barring that, I would think you could just take the boom out of the transport position if your hydraulics are tight enough that it won't creep down on you, and/or stick the dipper out, keeping in mind the raised center of gravity.

When I'm doing loader work and need a lot of counterbalance out back (like when moving wet clay), I've found that moving what weight you have further back is just as good as having more weight.


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## Winterworks (Oct 17, 2000)

I just bought 2 protechs based on price. The Candian model (propusher) was half the price of the Avalanche up here. I looked at the Avalanche's and they appeared very well made and very sturdy. I just could not beat the Protech price. In your case I would go with the Avalanche. 
How far apart are your accounts? Up here everyone drives around with pusher boxes on that are that size. Technically you need a permit for that width however no one bothers you. Put a couple of flags on each corner and go. You are nullifying the time savings with the pusher by loading and unloading your machine.
Pat


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## bytor (Nov 8, 2001)

Just called the folks at http://www.wsint.com/snow equipment/protech_bsp.htm and they're about $700 cheaper than the local folks for the 14-foot ProTech. $4200 plain, and $4350 with chain binders. Binders a $150 option? Forgot to ask if these are the same thing as the load binders I've got in abundant supply.

Downside is they're also in northern Illinois, which likely means the $700 savings would get eaten up in shipping, although I'm waiting for them to call me back with a shipping amount.

I was thinking about trying to see if I could find buyers for about 8 or so of them locally and I could go get them and give everyone pretty cheap shipping, but realistically there's no time for that now.

Hauling with the pusher attached? That scares me. Maybe road lanes are the "wrong size" up there just like your football fields. hehe

My trailer's 102 inches wide, and fills a lane as it is. Would be very nervous about a 168-inch wide load, resulting in 33 inches of overhang on both sides. 3 feet of my load going over the center line on two-lane. Nah. Can't make myself do it. Taking out cars on my left and mailboxes on my right. <grin>

I'll only be doing snow removal at one place, so perhaps the answer is to leave the pusher there and chain it to a light pole. It's not like everyone who drives by will happen to have bolt-cutters and a backhoe handy to steal it. Have even considered leaving the trailer and backhoe there (there's plenty of room for that) all winter if I can secure it enough. Or take the trailer home so a thief would have to provide his own.

That's a pretty scary thought, too, but if I have a hidden battery disconnect, then I guess my only concern would be vandalism. And while glass isn't prohibitively expensive, the whole reason I'm getting into snow-pushing is because I can spend most of the time in a WARM cab while keeping the new business going in the winter. 

I guess there are lots of possibilities to make the equipment extremely difficult to steal, though heavy equipment theft is a huge problem out here, and nothing will make it impossible.


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

I own just over 200 snow pushers..... all ProTech's.

My opinion is that the ProTech is built better than Avalanche. Avalanche has two side suppor struts which will not allow the side panel to 'fail' in a side collision (like striking a curb from the side). ProTech's have a built in failure point. This is good. If the side panel doesn't fail the stress is transfered to the bucket support arms. Expensive date when them there baby's snap. Rather the side panel fail than the arms on the loader. This has actually happened with an Avalanche or two (and I've spoken to the people it happened to).

ProTech has great customer support if there is a problem (from personal experience).

As for pricing - if you have no dealer in your market, you can go direct. I can give you contact names if you email me your email address......

As for the binders.... get the cheap ones aftermarket or mail order. ProTech knows they are not in the binder business. We purchase ours from A. W. Direct for about $24 each. The chains are not there to hold the pusher on the loader bucket. They are there to prevent side to side sway. If used properly there is no need to put undue stress on the chain. No need to "dump" at the end of the run.... merely raise the bucket (level) and the snow drops out the bottom. We have guys that are very good at stacking the snow with the pushers, but they never dump the bucket as there is no need. One more thing... just get one binder per pusher. You don't need two. One side chain can be sized to hook with little slack and the other side (with the binder) can be snugged up to stop sway during travel and/or pushing.

As for size and transporting from place to place - in most of the markets we are in we use 12 footers and drive them on the road (not quite legal, we know), and in our own market here in Erie we run 14 footers on the road (although we get a boatload of snow here and it's just accepted that this happens - all will be fine as long as we don't cause an accident along the way somewhere).

Also, we "station" pushers at large sites, and then just move the loader from site to site. 

One more thing.... the BSP model will work just fine on a 2.5 yard bucket articulating loader, even though they recommend the SP model. That's how well they are built.....

Oh.... and I doubt you'll have to chain it to a tree. We have them stationed on sites in 6 states, and have not lost a one. I know another contractor in New Jersey that has about 70 of them and he hasn't had any stolen either. That's a damned large item to stick in your trunk and drive away with. Takes some work.

We also have our decal on each unit (both end plates) and the advertising is great.... and we get lots of inquiries just from the pushers sitting on customers sites..... Cheap advertising.

If you have more questions, email me and I'll try to assist as much as I can.....

As you can tell, I'm a proponent of ProTech's......


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

I have 2 14' ProTech Snow Pushers.

I bought them on impulse, the price was right, and they really help when the time crunch is on. Over night, and early morning.
However during the day we switch back to a regular blade, because there are too many cars in the lot to use a pusher. If we didn't have the blades, we probably wouldn't switch.

As far as getting them on site. We get the loaders on site first, then we go around with a pusher on a trailer, and unload it with the loader. We just leave our pushers, un chained and they haven't been stolen. 

However we leave the blade on the loaders, because if its a day storm, the blade is on and we are ready to go. If its a night storm, it is easier to take the blade off, and hook up to the pusher.

The ProTech pushers have stood up fine to tough Maine winters. Would probably use more pushers if there were bigger lots around here. However most lots around here are so small that during the day the pusher is often too big.

Geoff


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

I have 4 protechs, 3 14' and one 16'. I like the simplicity of the hook ups,often we don't even bind our on just throw a lose chain around the back of the bucket so they dont get away from the loader.The are often off and on many times during a night so that we can clean loading docks and stack snow.The Avalanch seems fine but the price is usually to high and from what I have seen of the bucket hook up, it would be tough to use a bucket with teeth which we some times do if we get caught doing something else with the loader when it snows. We use our Pro techs all the time even during the day, we store ours on site and usually just transport ours from site to site right down the road.


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## lm116 (Oct 17, 2000)

Bytor

When I was at the BBQ at Taconic I ran into 2 other manufactors of pushers. I believe one was RCS sno-pushers and the other Strom sno-pusher. Not a 100% sure on names. These guys I believe had worked for Pro-Tech and then started there own companies.
The RCS was simalir to the Pro-tech but had a few different features.
The strom pusher was a completely different monster altogether.
They were less expensive than Pro-Tech if memory does not fail me, but maybe someone else from the BBQ has better info.
Hope this helps.


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## Deere John (May 14, 2001)

My 2 cents is more to do with your counter-weight question bytor.

I take the big rear bucket off in the winter and put either the 12" or 18" on for the winter. Two reasons. Visibility as they are narrower and 2) - I keep sharp teeth on them to pick away at frost if the occasion comes up to do some waterline work. A wide bucket or dull teeth are useless in frozen ground. Never felt the need for more weight, but you could put a couple hundred pounds of pickled sand in the rear bucket too, or consider loading the rear tires if needed.

From the land of frozen ground 6 months of the year....


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## Winterworks (Oct 17, 2000)

John, my new Protech "pro-pushers" have two side support arms similar to the Avalanche. Not sure why they went with that but it could be due to the fact that the side panels are just sheet steel with no framing like the old models. They are also stitch welded instead of full welds. We will see how they hold up. I compared my new ones to an Avalanche. The Avalanche looks better finished due to the full welds however at nearly half the price I can pay for a lot of welding!. The protechs are also a nice shade of ORANGE instead of the usual yellow!


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## Taconic (May 18, 2001)

*RCS PUSHERS*

The RCS pusher boxes seem a bit heavier than the Pro Tesc or Avalanche boxes and come standard with a poly edge as well as thicker side walls.I can get anyone more info on these boxes if you like just give me a ring.
845-485-4200
John Parker


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## Pro-Tech (Nov 2, 2001)

*Which is better?*

Hi guy's,
If you want any comparison info I have a couple documents I would be more than happy to e-mail, fax or whatever. Some of the larger differences are that the chanel supports on the back of the Avalanche are made out of bent plate. They use 2 pieces of bent plate, Pro-Tech uses 3 structural channel . Bending plate creates a weak point at the bend. Pro-Tech uses a structural channel which is measured by pound per foot and is actually thicker at the bend. The welding process are different also. Avalanche uses a process called hard wire or "MIG" welding where as Pro-Tech uses "Flux Core" welding which is considered a structural weld because of it's deep penatration into the steel. Pro-Tech made in the USA and a 10 year warranty on non wearing parts.

[email protected]


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

As a welder who is competent in stick, mig and tig welding I would question your rating of welding. I think that mig welding is penetrating when done corecttly. I know that welds I make mig or stick will hold up.

75 what is your opinion on this?


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## Pro-Tech (Nov 2, 2001)

*welding process*

MIG (hard wire) welding is definetly a good weld, but Flux core gets better penetration. Fireman how are you? We met at the Taconic show.


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## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

Pro-Tech is a helpful person if he is who I think he is. Don't want to say names in case he wants some anonymity. I just spoke with him over the telephone earlier today for the first time. Very straight forward guy IMO.

Not trying to brown-nose. Just thought I'd let others know he wasn't some slick talkin' factor rep who tried to sell me some line of crap about his product.


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

I know him personally as well and glad to see he is on the site now.


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

I am sure "75" can tell us what weld is the best.

Geoff


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## bytor (Nov 8, 2001)

Well, well, well! Fantastic, informative replies, guys. Thanks!

I've ordered my ProTech 14-footer and should have it in a week or two. The reasons I went this route are:

1. Seems strongly favored here.

2. 8-gauge vs 10-gauge.

3. Local guy was extremely helpful.

4. Turned out the $5100 quote I got was for a different model. "Only" $4600 for the correct one, so the premium came down to about $700 instead of $1200.

As for keeping equipment on-site, whoever talked about just leaving the pusher on-site makes a good case. I'll go that route. I'd like to leave the trailer and backhoe there, too, but doubt I'll be able to make myself do that even though it's the only place I'll use either during the winter. 

As much as I hate hauling it that far, I guess I'd hate worse not having it anymore. hehe

Bob


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## 2401 (Feb 3, 2001)

Well, just got home from a day of (stick) welding.  

I'm going to have to weigh in on the side of "flux-core" for heavy structural welding - that's not to say that MIG is a bad process by any means, but for applications like pusher boxes, loader buckets etc, flux-core is the way to go. Weld penetration is good, another plus is "deposition rate", in other words the amount of weld metal that can be laid down in a set time, especially on 'dem b-i-g groove welds. 

At work, we generally use the MIG for fabbing miscellaneous metals (such as stairs & railings) and lighter gauge material, while flux-core is used for the welding on structural steel (columns, beams, etc) And, of course, good 'ol stick for the bulk of the "field work".


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

What did I tell ya, the Man with all the answers when it comes to welding.

Geoff


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

Not to counteract you 75. You have much more experience than me. 

I have done some pretty serious fabbing with my mig. I do use the stick welder when out in the field. All I know is that you can do solid work with either if you prepare the work while. I have a few truckframe and heavy trailer repairs done with a mig. I also have made numerous repairs out in the snow using the old stick welder because of inabilty to get the machine to the shop.


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## 2401 (Feb 3, 2001)

Thanks Geoff - although I don't claim to have ALL the answers - I learn stuff every day! 

CT18 - Agreed there's nothing wrong with MIG. You're right about proper joint prep being important - one reason flux core is popular for the heavy stuff is efficiency: on a large weld, it can often be laid on in one pass with the flux core while MIG might take a couple passes.


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

I worked for a Lincoln Electric distributor for 8 years and have a degree in Weld Engineering as well as Management. You are all right. There is nothing wrong with MIG and it can be used effectively. It is actually Metal Inert Gas (MIG) welding and utilizes inert gas (usually Argon or an Argon-CO2 mix) as the shield to keep contaminant gasses from creating inclusions in the puddle. Stick welding uses the covering on the electrode to create the gaseous shield. Does the same thing but at a much slower process. 

Flux Core was designed to allow for higher production welding while STILL achieving desired penetration. The gaseous shield is created from the "flux" contained within the 'rod' - or coil of wire. The process can be run much hotter thus allowing for adequate penetration of thicker steels. The increased heat allows the process to proceed faster than MIG, but achieving the same results. It is usually the method of choice for production work, or repeat welding applications BECAUSE it achieves the desired results in a better time frame, thus reducing labor costs as well as eliminting the need for an inert gas mixture - and saving material costs too. One is not better than the other.

There is some evidence (among engineers) that the flux core method allows for better penetration on thicker steel because of the increased heat used - and I happen to be one who subscribes to that theory.


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## bytor (Nov 8, 2001)

*Other questions now*

Some of these probably belong in another forum, but some are specific to this one so I'll post them all here, and copy some of the other-thread questions elsewhere.

First, my 14' ProTech should be here shortly.

Questions:

1. A saw in another forum (do a search on "backhoe" and "tires") someone reported (2nd-hand) that a 14-foot pusher can be a problem on a backhoe. Specifically, they said a 4x4 Case (they didn't know the model) would get bogged down in wet snow, especially with ice. It'd just sit there and spin the tires. I'm using a Case 580SK 4x4 extendahoe, so it's about as heavy as they get. It doesn't have the differential lock, though. Wish it did. Anyone else using this combo able to tell me what to expect from it in different conditions?

2. Backhoe tires. I was thinking about replacing the backhoe's tires to help it out for this kind of work since mine (especially the rears) are a bit worn from all the rock work I do. The cutting edges of the lugs are pretty rounded. However, I'm experiencing sticker shock right now. $440 each for Denman rears (19.5L-24) and $130 each for Titan fronts (12-16.5).

It occurs to me that the fat back tires on the backhoe are more liability than benefit in snow and ice (less PSI ground pressure -- negated to a big extent by the load being carried right on the lugs), but the fat tires may be required simply to hold up a 16k-lb machine.

Any thoughts on alternate tires for this machine? Or do I even need to worry about the tires? Or give my existing tires the motocross treatment where you cut/file the leading edge of the knobs to give them more bite?

3. Fluid-filled tires on the backhoe: Yeah or Nay? The fluid in my tractor's tires froze last year and shredded the tubes -- I still suspect they put too much water in the mix -- so I'm a bit iffy on doing this.

4. Truck tires. I need to replace the highway tires on my truck with winter tires. It won't be pushing snow, but it'll be hauling the backhoe, most likely on streets that haven't been plowed yet. It's a 99 Ford F350 dually. BFG Mud Kings look like just the ticket to me. Anyone agree/disagree?


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## bytor (Nov 8, 2001)

Well, I got to use the ProTech (14-footer on a Case 580SK) several weeks ago, and it was a blast! The trucks I was working with hadn't seen one of these things in action before but it didn't take long to figure out that things went smoothest if they'd push the snow into the lanes and let me move these big piles of snow out to the edges. The 3-foot square sides (forget what they're called) make all the difference in the world, as it can trap a huge amount of snow without it overflowing out the sides.

Unfortunately, it's the only chance I've gotten to use it so far, and we're typically on our way out of winter about this time of year.

The snow I used it on wasn't very heavy (maybe 3 inches) so I didn't get to find the point at which the machine's traction couldn't overcome the snow load.

One problem we found right away is that the rubber cutting edge seemed too high. Unless I hit a small high spot in the pavement, it wouldn't get the path very clean. I've since lowered the edge so it's about half an inch below the shoes and will see how this works out. I'm sure it'll wear the cutting edge more quickly, but if semi-frequent cutting edge replacement is the only cost of that, it's worth it.

I'm not using binders. I welded a pair of hooks to the loader bucket and positioned the chains in the hooks so that they'd be taut when the bucket's parallel to the ground. I started out with the binders, but anytime an elevation change in the parking lot decreased the angle between the plow and the machine, the binders would unlatch or come off. Seemed to work just fine without the binders once I got chain positioning figured out. In looking at the setup, it seems there's no way to get the binders to stay tight in all circumstances, since tightening them raises the front of the plow and if the surface raises the front of the plow, the chains go slack. Unless I also add chains below the lip of the loader bucket.

I took someone's advice here and just left the plow at the job site. It's still there.

I did manage to get the plow and backhoe down there in one trip. Barely. My backhoe trailer is 30 feet long, so I put the plow on the front of the trailer diagonally (just enough to stay within the width of the trailer), then pulled the backhoe onto the trailer as far as I could, with the loader resting on the plow. This put the backhoe back too far for good handling, so I had to drive slow, but I made it.

Also went with some really aggressive Kelly tires on the truck. They work very well in the snow and off-road, but they're really squirrely. The tread blocks are too flexible, so the truck wanders a lot. Looking forward to putting my highway tires back on it when Spring arrives.


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## Pro-Tech (Nov 2, 2001)

*Rubber adjustment*

Happy to hear that you like your Pro-Tech Sno Pusher. One little word of advise. When adjusting your rubber, place the pusher on level ground. Shim the shoes up 1/4 inch, NO More than 1/4 inch, and tap the rubber edge down to the ground. This will get the more agressive attack edge you are looking for. In some instances where the rubber has been lowered below 1/4". It has ripped. This happens because the rubber will fold under the mold board and when the pusher goes over an obstruction, like a manhole cover, it could pinch against the mold board. You may have to adjust your edge more often, but it will wear less then if it is adjusted lower and you won't risk damaging your rubber.


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## camby (Feb 26, 2002)

Pro-Tech, I am considering purchasing a Pro-Tech for next winter. What does happen if you hit a big obstacle such as a high manhole cover? Are there any designs for installing trip edges like a snow plow has?


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

bytor ,you used a 14 footer on a case isn't that a bit too big for it? how much of a run can you do with it and how deep can it be? or do you have to keep running it around the clock to be able to push with it.I wanted to get one for my 580L it only has like 70-73 net HP.My question again will it push it??


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## Pro-Tech (Nov 2, 2001)

Actual "trip edges" ,like on a truck plow, and the sno-pusher design don't mix too well. Too many moving parts mixed with a 20,000lb machine and 15-20mph dont add up. The same trip springs couldn' t be used for skidd steers and loaders. As for going over high manhole covers; if the rubber is adjusted properly there is not an issue. There is about 3" of space from the ground to the mold board. Plenty room for a manhole cover. 


CAT320: We recommend a BSP12 (12 feet) for a case 580. To get up to the BSP14 (14 feet) you would want a machine with a little more weight or horse power OR a lot of contractors use the BSP14 on a Case 580 when they plow WITH the snow. Accumlation may bog the machine down.


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

There is one manufacturer that offers box blades with trip edges. Word on the street is that it's not performing well (this is first year out). This "word" isn't from another manufacturer, but from someone who told me he has a sub using one and that it's causing them fits. It won't trip as the springs are way too tough, and when it does there is too much stress on the other parts.

All heresay, mind you - and not from personal experience, so take it for what it's worth.


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

One other thing.....
be wary of using polyurethane edges on the box blades. We spec'd polyurethane edges on the 68 units we bought for the Olympics, and we had LOTS of problems with the poly's.

Don't know if it was the cold temps (minus 40 at times), or something else, but we switched a third of them back to rubber during operations.


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## Kent Lawns (Jan 18, 2000)

There are currently no less than 3 manufacturers offering trip edge pusher boxes. 

One of our subs uses a steel edge/trip edge (3 years old) in a neighboring municipality and we've experienced very good sucess with it. Especially on a non-salted site, it's scaping advantages really shine.

Because of our own good success with the Protech and because of its near flawless track record, our company will continue to purchase Protech's at least in the near future.

In a non-salted site, a steel edge/trip edge apparatus definitely has advantages. On almost all our sites, this is not a factor.

One thing is for sure: competition will dictate improvement.


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

Wow... that's good feedback.
It's this kind of feedback that keeps me coming here......


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## SLC1 (Jul 27, 2000)

We used pro-tech pushers for five years and we constantly had trouble with the cutting edges ,it never left a great job unless it was a slushy snow and we were always adjusting it, every season we had to replace it and then we went to a polyuratheane cutting edge, it scraped a little bit better , but still not that great. Well I finally had it and we broke down and purchased a Daniels Box Plow with the metal trip edge, unfortunatley we have only had three plowable events with it this year but i can tell you that the few times we used it it works excellent, scrapes down to bare pavement and has no trouble tripping the way that it should, you can see it trip over obsticles like water valves and fuel fills, ect. It works good so far. Hope to get to try it at least a couple more times this year. Just My two cents


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

While im no where near as experienced as 75,or some others here,i do agree with 75,the arc weld can simply generate more heat,faster,making for deeper penetrating welds,this is important with thick steel,


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## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

*Can't is a four letter word...*



> _Originally posted by Kent Lawns _
> *There are currently no less than 3 manufacturers offering trip edge pusher boxes.
> 
> One of our subs uses a steel edge/trip edge (3 years old) in a neighboring municipality and we've experienced very good sucess with it. Especially on a non-salted site, it's scraping advantages really shine. *


Kent Lawns-

The manufacturers I know of that offer a trip edge are Daniels, Avalanche and Storm. Was the sub using one of these three brands with success or a brand I am unaware of?

JA-

Would you be kind enough to let us know which box you had heard negative about their trip edge? If a manufacturer has issues with functionality of the trip edge, as I consumer, I'd like to find out if steps have been taken to correct the problem before I throw my hard earned cash their way. It sounds like lighter spring tension would be an easy fix if the edge doesn't trip properly.



> _ Originally posted by Pro-Tech_ *Actual "trip edges" , like on a truck plow, and the sno-pusher design don't mix too well. Too many moving parts mixed with a 20,000lb machine and 15-20mph dont add up.*


If someone is using my pusher at speeds of 15-20 mph, (with the POSSIBLE exception of night time plowing of unobstructed large sites) they can expect a SERIOUS reaction! I realize that in the "real world" everyone does things differently, but SIMA recommends a top speed of 10 mph for plowing (not to be read as "slam the pile at 10 mph"). I feel that a 10 mph "snowplowing speed limit" is a commonsense approach.

The second issue I take with your statement is that "too many moving parts mixed with a 20,000lb. machine and 15-20 mph, don't add up." Municipalities have used such setups on their trucks for many years without a problem. If there were major problems, the manufacturers would have gone to a different design. Municipal trucks are generally CDL class vehicles over 26,000 lbs GVW and I have not seen municipal trucks traveling below 15-20 mph plowing their routes.

JA, among many other bright people, will tell you that if you make up your mind that you cannot do something, you are right. I hope Pro Tech (the company, not the forum member) has not made up their mind "they can't."


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## Chuck Smith (Dec 30, 1999)

Remember, Pro Tech is a welding & fabricating company. They don't just make pushers. Believe me, they are always exploring new products, and new features for existing products.

I have seen some of their prototypes of unique products at the factory myself. (No i won't elaborate).

~Chuck


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

Whoa.... talk about diggin up an old thread.......

Anyway.... I have been told that the trip edge problem on the particular manufacturer I referred to above (and quite some time ago) has resolved the issues - from hearsay, not from personal experience.

And, I'd recommend scoping out all the pusher's being marketed at this point as there are several well built ones out there now. There were some nice exhibits at the SIMA Symposium in St. Louis last June.

Chuck's right.... Pro-Tech does more than just make pusher boxes and they do have some interesting things on the drawing board. I was with Chuck when we were looking at some of their stuff. I happen to own quite a few Pro-Techs and we are satisfied with them....

Pro-Tech is good, but there are alternatives on the market now, so look around before deciding.


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

Yeah no kidding I haven't been here in months, start reading and see a post of mine and went whoa this is ancient.I can't belive in this thread there isn't more info than anyone would ever want to know about sno- pushers.


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## RYAN SMITH (Dec 4, 2001)

We started out using PROTECH and AVALANCHE after using both we tied out the RCS SNO PRO .I can tell you that we have replaced all of our pushers with RCS SNO PRO pushers and we like them alot.As J.P. mentioned above the are heavier and i think just better built overall.I can also tell you that RCS is very good with there customers from my experiences.My calls on questions or orders get prompt attention.I have also been to the factory and seen the product from start to finish being built and i came away very impressed.

RYAN SMITH
WINTER WEATHER SERVICES INC.
WWW.WINTERWEATHERSERVICES.COM
MAGIC SALT DIST.


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## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

Glad to have revived such a good thread.



> * Diggerman said "I can't belive in this thread there isn't more info than anyone would ever want to know about sno- pushers."
> 
> *


Well, believe it.  Maybe the fact that I put forth so much effort to learn the most I can about different topics helps to explain how my learning curve has gone through the ceiling. Now if snowfall totals this season do the same, I will be in luck. 

I could be considered a little anal about wanting to know all of the intricacies (I see this "fault" within myself), but I would rather get as much perspective as possible on a piece of iron I'm going to spend ~$5,000 on. I only get once chance to make this purchase and feel whatever brand I buy, the pushers will be with me for a LONG time.

I have been on the phone with dealers or factory reps for Avalanche, Pro Tech, Storm, RCS, and Daniels. Bonnell is the only other manufacturer that I can think of that I have not contacted. I decided that I could not live without a trip edge. That rules out Bonnell, Pro Tech, Storm and RCS (I am not POSITIVE that RCS does not have a trip edge available) Anyone else know of others that I might want to look at?


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## PINEISLAND1 (Dec 21, 1999)

So, of the trip edge brands, what are you leaning towards now and why ?


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## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

Right now Avalanche is in the lead. A well built and well designed heavy duty municipal type trip edge, "similar to a Fisher." One thing I like about Avalanche is I can go factory direct and not have to pay for shipping to a dealer hours away from me; and then again to me. Another is that the Avalanche trip edge has adjustable shoes so you can adjust downpressure if you want. Sidewalls are double braced.

I don't have pricing for the Storm, but was told it is about 4% more than other containment plows. Team Storm feels their engineering and better materials justify the price. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes down, for me. One thing I like about Storm is they have had their trip edge design in use for 12 years. Sidewalls are double braced.

Daniels' box plow hinges are out front and exposed, height is listed as 40" for a loader model and they have single sidewall bracing and it has a rounded shoe that appears like it might not ride up over a curb as well as the angled style shoes. I'm admittedly nitpicking. All people I have dealt with have been helpful and class acts. 

All are eager to do business and all designs seem to have their good points. I just have my own ideas of what I want out of the units I buy.


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

You put TOO much thought into it, you'll not be able to make a decision..... You're buying one of these, I take it??

They are not like plows with lots of moving parts.... they're big hunks of steel.

If you think that having a "really beefed up sideboard" is key, be prepared for some hefty insurance claims down the road....


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## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

Too much thought? Although it sometimes is time consuming, I pride myself in the fact that I do pay so much attention to "the details." Once you have made a few bad purchasing mistakes, you learn to sweat the details. Maybe I have overadjusted, but so be it.


I won't have any problem making my mind up when the time comes. Again, I feel that most of the units out there are well built and viable options. Each of the major brands have their proponents, just like the Ford/Chevy/Dodge debates.

I called Pro Tech again this morning. They are going to price a trip edge design for me (custom). They HAVE NOT gone to a double brace system as has been rumored. Honestly, after further review, I wonder if the promo pictures I have seen of single braced plows with broken sidepanels and broken welds were even actual Pro Tech units. The photos are not captioned as being a specific brand, but I would bet many people think that they are Pro Tech units. The pictures make a great sales tool, but I am not fully convinced yet that they tell the whole story.

It sounds as if plowing ALONG curbs rather than traversing them at an angle is what is going to bend a sideplate. Plowing along curbs is a duty for accompanying trucks, anyway. Maybe I am not as sold on the double brace system as I thought. I think either would suffice. Has anyone accidentally or purposfully attempted to travers a curb at an angle and bent a sideplate?

JA- "Really beefed up" is not key, but I don't want to have boxes that look like they have been through WWIII at the end of my first season. If your boxes have made it thru the season without bent sideplates, tell me that my fears are unfounded. Actually, one of the things I don't like about the Storm is that it has 1" sidepanels. I want to push snow, not iron. Unforutunately, I don't have any specs on the Storm and they are not readily available. That will probably keep me from doing business with them, although I feel they have a good product and seem very customer service oriented.

Now I am at a point where service and pricing are being weighed as part of the purchasing decision. It sounds like the custom trip edge from Pro Tech is going to be pricey compared to comparable units, but we will see. 

Although JA is a big proponent of Pro Tech, I feel the Avalanche is as viable an option as any. Every major brand has their proponents for their own unique reasons. As was pointed out by the Pro Tech rep, many people are now wanting to have other features built into their pushers in an attempt to "have their cake and eat it too." Having increased scraping ability coupled with the ability to move mountains of snow is the best of both worlds to me.


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## Chuck Smith (Dec 30, 1999)

SnoJob, let me help if I can. Last year, I had a 3yd loader following a guardrail, piling up snow hit a curb. The curb didn't follow the contour of the guardrail, or vice versa. The pusher knocked out an 8' section of curb, that was 20" deep, and cracked the curb into 3 pieces. What happened to the pusher?

The side plate bent in about 4"at the very bottom, and the shoe bent as well. The push beam on the back was dented pretty good from the corner of the loader bucket.

Details? 3 yd loader, didn't have the pusher for it on site, so we chained on a 14' backhoe model. It took a HARD hit, and it "gave" like it should. I was shocked at how damaged the curb was, and how little damage the pusher had after seeing the curb. In fact, I saw the pusher damage first, then went to see if I could find what did it on the site. I found the damage where the guys finished up plowing the site. I know one loader was pushing to a corner, and the other was coming in at a 90 degree angle to the other, piling up the snow. The one piling it up hit the curb, and probably the windshield too.

The pusher was a Pro Tech.

Better to bend a pusher than crack or bend a loader arm.

The side bracing was in tact. Two braces is no better, and 1/2" sideplates might have damaged the loader.

I couldn't blame the operator for what happened, I would have hit that curb myself.

Just food for thought.

~Chuck


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## SnoJob67 (Sep 3, 2001)

Thanks for the input. Since you bring up the topic of curb damage: I understand accidents can happen. Fortunately, a couple of guys that sub for me are concrete contractors, so if I do need repairs done, I will be treated fairly. Let's hope for no broken curbs, though.  

Is having to do repairs pretty common, or is that only likely to happen in a freak mishap? Do you think that having trucks outline curb areas or areas with obstacles before using a pusher in a given area would be feasible? It seems like a good way to avoid the possibility of accidents like the one you described.


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

"Pro-Tech is good, but there are alternatives on the market now, so look around before deciding."

From my last post.....

View it as you see fit.....


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## SLC1 (Jul 27, 2000)

We run the Daniels Snow Pusher with the trip edge and for the little amount of snow we had last year it worked excellent, We ran the Pro-Techs and they worked good but didnt scrape good in some conditions and some times they did a horrible job, other times they scraped clean, we even went to the ureathane edge and it was better but not great so we tried the Daniels and I think we are going to be happy, seems good, well built and it worked good for the times we used it. The price was not all that much more than the other brands out there, Just my two cents


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## snowman1954 (Nov 19, 2007)

*snow pushers*

I been reading your articles about the different snow boxs just wanted to inform you quys there is a company in indiana making the strongest folding boxes, for loaders to get down the road, up to 20' folds to 10' 17' folding with hydraulics for under 10,000.00 call 260-563-2612


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Well hopefully most of those guys have already bought their pushers because this thread is over 5 years old.


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## SamuriShovels (Sep 27, 2007)

Yes it took me a while to realize how old this thread is too. Maybe bytor can let us know how things are looking 5 years on?
I asked Avalanche before buying one about the failure point of the plow and they assured me that the plow will fail before damage is transferred to the arms of the machine, unless maybe you hit something going at ridiculous speed. The clincher for me was that for the smaller accidental impacts which in reality is what I'm likely to get, the Avalanche will take them and keep going whereas the Protech will probably need to be taken away for repairs. I've talked to other users of both models and they've told me the Avalanche is the only one that will let you finish a job even after a hit.
As for the question of weld strength, the Avalanche carries a lifetime warranty. The Protech is only 10 years. That's my 10cents worth anyway.
Still, I'd be interested in some more recent experiences/opinions on this thread.


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## SamuriShovels (Sep 27, 2007)

As a P.S, it seems that the whole failure point argument is a red herring anyway, if you consider that the bucket of the backhoe or loader definitely is not designed to fail after a moderately heavy impact, why would you want your plow, attached to the bucket, to crumple after hitting a curb or manhole cover? It doesn't make sense to me, unless I'm missing something?


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## INFO (Nov 16, 2007)

*Save Your Money*

Honestly I've Purchased 32 Protec And About 4 Avalanches In The Last Five Years Avalanch Is Put To Gether A Lit Bit Better But Not By Much And Really How Long Will These Thing Last If Taken Care Of Fairly Well 5-6years And Will Probably Be Complety Deppreciated With In 2 Save You Money Protech Puts Out A Good Product And If Some Idiot Drops It Or Caves A Corner In From A Curb You Can Use The Money You Saved To Try An Drink Away The Pain P.S. BETTER THE SNOW ATTACHMENT THAN A MAN HOLE THE COST OF REPARING A SITE CAN ADD UP QUICKLY


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## mattthedrac (Jun 20, 2006)

I've owned both brands and talked to guys who've run them both and I'm going to weigh in on the side of Avalanche. It may be true that both models will last several years but the key for me is that the Avalanche has taken hits that would have sent the Protech back to the shop for a facelift. That's not what you want during a storm when the pressure's on.
Manhole covers shouldn't cause concern whatever brand you run though, especially if you use a trip edge.


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

Daniels. Thats my favorite boxplow. And their color sets their pushers aside from everybody else. 

P.S. This thread is old but people may still read it and answer their own questions instead of posting the question over and over.


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)




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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)




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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)




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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)




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