# over loaded front end



## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

ok now i know boss says you cant put a 8.2 v on the front of an 06 gmc 2500hd diesel crewcab. but i had a 8 ft superduty or there last year and the truck handeled it fine. i have timbrens on the front end and 3-4 turns in the torsion bars. today i put on the v plow that i just bought. when the plow is all the way back the shoes scrape the ground while driving down the road. i know there are people out there who run this combo. and for what i paid for this plow i couldnt afford not to buy it lol ( at least thats what i told my girlfriend)
so my question is this aside from cranking the tbars all the way and the truck riding like crap, what else is out there?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

How low are the shoes?
Next, straighten the plow just a little so it does not hit the ground going over bumps.
Then give the bars a crank or two, I bet the Boss weights a few #'s more.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I agree with SnowFarmer. You tb's need a few more turns. A 8'2 Boss shouldn't hit the ground on the road. My 9'2's hit, if you don't straighten them a bit.


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

most of the people i see driving around drive with the blades back towards the truck. when i do that they hit the ground. it just seems like the front end needs to come up in the air more. i dont wanna crank up the tbars all the way up and ride like crap. air there air bags or the different keys that you put in the tbars. im just not to sure which way to go.wesport


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

heres what im think of running. does anyone here have any experince with these??? i know that i rode around in an older mucle car with air shocks and it sucked. not sure this would be muck better.

http://www.truckspring.com/VSearchResults2.aspx?cID=741&pt=179&fv=583


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I'll get off at this stop. lol

have you read this post it is along the same line......lol
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=47941

read it all lololol


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

similar along the lines i guess. has any one ran the keys that you put in the front end to get 2inches of lift. better idea im guessing.


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

no one here has the torsion keys that claim 2 inces of lift??


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## William B. (Jul 22, 2004)

All that is really going to do is put your CV joints at a bad angle. Do you know how many turns you have on the TBars? Also don't forget to add ballast to the back of your truck. This will help transfer some of the weight and bring the front end up higher.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

ServiceOnSite;406593 said:


> no one here has the torsion keys that claim 2 inces of lift??


The keys that are in your truck will most likely give you enough lift. I agree with what William B said , the more you crank your tb's the harder it is on your front end. You want to have basically straight cv angles for plowing, when your bars are cranked the cv's are on a huge angle and it also causes alot more stress on your pitman and idler arms.


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## sweetk30 (Sep 3, 2006)

i have installed a few sets of lift keys. not to bad a job if not frozen in from solid rust. 

and on that note. all but 1 set is out and not in the truck anymore. thay ride like crap and eat front end parts. go get some heavyer tbars and swap in if you are going to go this route. 

and use some ballest in the back tto help. this is the real fix. not the bandaid like lift keys and such.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Do this simple test, I did.

hang your plow on your truck.
next measure the hight of your truck.
(I measured at the front wheel well)

Now add your ballast/counterweight behind the rear wheels.

I have a bossV and I added #800lb the rear went down and the front came up a whopping 

"1inch"

Then I added my snow-blower ,ice melt another 300#, shovel miscellaneous gear and still the front did not come up much.

The ballast/ counterweight is not meant to lift the front but to balance out the truck.

The fix: the proper torsion bars and the proper plow.
Springs or torsion bars it does not matter you may need stiffer ones.

With stiffer ones you can maintain your drive-line geometry and carry the added weight.

or turn up the bars for the winter, (the plow will drop the front back down so your drive-line is in line)
then in the spring turn them back down.


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

Think of this.... If she sags, the torsion bar crank will just go up to normal hight, so in reality the CV angles should be OK.

Second or I should say first, you need to add ballast that will raise up the front. But with the diesel engine and massive plow to counter weight you need allot... I thinking about 1000 pounds behind the rear wheels.


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

yaz i see that you have a similar set as i have. i dont think what i put on the front of my truck is all that uncommon. how much weight do you run in your bed. 
i went down to a local gmc dealer and asked them if they sell i heavy duty torsion bar up grade and said no. its the same part # what in my truck to a 3500. the only difference from a 3500 to 2500hd is the bed has another rib in it for more weight, theres no crewcab short box configuration, and a few more leafs in the rear end. but they share the same torsion bars up front.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

ServiceOnSite;407161 said:


> i went down to a local gmc dealer and asked them if they sell i heavy duty torsion bar up grade and said no. its the same part # what in my truck to a 3500. they share the same torsion bars up front.


 Unless you know what bars are in your truck and you told them, or they ran the VIN for you,or they looked themselves, they may have flat out lied to you. The 2500HD's and the 3500's can have the same bars but it just depends on how the truck was optioned. To say that all HD's and 3500's _always_ share the same bars insn't true. Do you know the code letters on your bars? As you may be able to upgrade to a stiffer bar than your currently running....


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

All the diesels 2500s have the 4800# bars from what I'm told, so I think they might be right.

You can add more weight in the back of 3500 to counter weight the plow that can't do with a 2500. Also the axials are different with a dually in the front too. That all goes into consideration with the FAWR.

I have been experimenting with ballast amounts. At first I had about 800# of sand bags. I got away with 300 lbs last season and she only sags under 1" at the mirrors when I lift my plow, less know than my buddy 05 6.0 Ford.
I have to unload it between storms so I know I'm light, but my back is killing me!


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Yaz;407650 said:


> All the diesels 2500s have the 4800# bars from what I'm told


 Let me clear this up just a bit as this is a common misunderstanding when talking about GAWR and all the different torsion bar ratings..SOS is asking about the torsion bar capacity, not the GAWR. 4800# is the suspension capacity, NOT the bar capacity. You can have 2 different trucks that both have a FAWR of 4800lbs but they can still have 2 different torsion bar ratings which would mean he could go up to a heavier bar than what's currently under the truck now (depending on which bars are under the truck now of course), in order to better support the weight of a heavy plow. So unless they checked the bar codes, you could still go up in bar capacity, 4800lbs GAWR or not.


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## EaTmYtAiLpIpEs (Aug 23, 2007)

ServiceOnSite;405738 said:


> ok now i know boss says you cant put a 8.2 v on the front of an 06 gmc 2500hd diesel crewcab. but i had a 8 ft superduty or there last year and the truck handeled it fine. i have timbrens on the front end and 3-4 turns in the torsion bars. today i put on the v plow that i just bought. when the plow is all the way back the shoes scrape the ground while driving down the road. i know there are people out there who run this combo. and for what i paid for this plow i couldnt afford not to buy it lol ( at least thats what i told my girlfriend)
> so my question is this aside from cranking the tbars all the way and the truck riding like crap, what else is out there?


That's why I purchased a ford superduty. I heard they were the best trucks to plow with so I am going to test that out this season.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

EaTmYtAiLpIpEs;408885 said:


> That's why I purchased a ford superduty. I heard they were the best trucks to plow with so I am going to test that out this season.


Let me guess a Ford guy told you they were the best.


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## EaTmYtAiLpIpEs (Aug 23, 2007)

I will be honest. No it wasn't. It was a former owner of a gmc that I work with.


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

o i went back to the dealer armed with what you told me about the different codes. he brought out a tech and we went over the vin again. there the same t bars that are in the front of 3500 dually. same part # he showed me the two different screens with 2 different vins and the same part #'s. a 4800 fawr is the same part across the board accordintg to the local chevy dealer. so now what the hell am i supposed to put in the front end??:crying: :crying:


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

This is not a big deal. Crank your bars a few turns and forget about it. When you drive just angle both sides of your blade forward. My 98,01 and 02 all have nothing done to the front ends and the blades all scrape the odd time. If I drive with the wings forward it doesn't happen. I havn't heard of anybody around here putting new tb's on a HD. Crank it and take it for a test drive, it will take like 5 min to crank.


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

fair enough. i guess with everything there is some sort of give and take right? i guess its the price i will have to pay for having the best 3/4 ton truck on the marketxysport


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

ServiceOnSite;409618 said:


> fair enough. i guess with everything there is some sort of give and take right? i guess its the price i will have to pay for having the best 3/4 ton truck on the marketxysport


Exactly. They are the best IMO too. Good luck.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

ServiceOnSite;409596 said:


> o i went back to the dealer armed with what you told me about the different codes. he brought out a tech and we went over the vin again. there the same t bars that are in the front of 3500 dually. same part # he showed me the two different screens with 2 different vins and the same part #'s. a 4800 fawr is the same part across the board accordintg to the local chevy dealer. so now what the hell am i supposed to put in the front end??:crying: :crying:


Just because they're the same bars as in the front of a 3500 dually still doesn't mean that your truck has the stiffest bars GM uses under it. It is entirely possible that it does already, but using a 3500 as a coparision will not guarantee that you do.

Can you look under your truck and give me the 2 digit letter code off the bar tag? I'll tell you EXACTLY what your bar ratings are and if you can indeed go to a stiffer bar, or that the truck does in fact already have the heaviest bars under it..


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## gcsupraman (Apr 28, 2004)

ServiceOnSite;409596 said:


> o i went back to the dealer armed with what you told me about the different codes. he brought out a tech and we went over the vin again. there the same t bars that are in the front of 3500 dually. same part # he showed me the two different screens with 2 different vins and the same part #'s. a 4800 fawr is the same part across the board accordintg to the local chevy dealer. so now what the hell am i supposed to put in the front end??:crying: :crying:


Here are all the Chevy torsion bar torque ratings....I assume you have the GK's or the GL's....

CHEVY TORSION BAR CODES AND RATINGS:

15048307-LH (code XK) (Max torque 4553)
15048308-RH (code XK) (Max torque 4553)

15048309-LH (code XL) (Max torque 4626)
15048310-RH (code XL) (Max torque 4626)

15712407-LH (code WX) (Max torque 4863)
15712408-RH (code WX) (Max torque 4863)

15048311-LH (code XM) (Max torque 5638)
15048312-RH (code XM) (Max torque 5638)

15058267-LH (code YH) (Max torque 5913)
15058268-RH (code YH) (Max torque 5913)

15712409-LH (code WY) (Max torque 5913)
15712410-RH (code WY) (Max torque 5913)

15528957-LH (code GG) (Max torque 6709)
15528958-RH (code GG) (Max torque 6709)

15712411-LH (code WZ) (Max torque 7267)
15712412-RH (code WZ) (Max torque 7267)

15528963-LH (code GK) (Max torque 8615)
15528964-RH (code GK) (Max torque 8615)

15528965-LH (code GL) (Max torque 8782)
15528966-RH (code GL) (Max torque 8782)

15732338-LH (code XG) (Max torque 9054)
15732339-RH (code XG) (Max torque 9054)

15528959-LH (code GH) (Max torque 7161)
15528960-RH (code GH) (Max torque 7161)


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

knowing the codes for those bars is one thing. do all of those part# interchange with my truck???


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Yes, all the bars will interchange, 1500, 2500, 2500HD,3500 from '88-2008.. doesn't matter.


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## PLM-1 (Nov 29, 2004)

I have a diesel with a V. I put about 1200 lbs in the back to just plow. When I have my salter, the 1200 of sand is there along with an entire bed of salt. God only knows how much weight is on my truck. I have never dragged anywhere and my t-bars are not cranked running 265's.


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## rcpd34 (Jan 16, 2004)

Have you seen these:

http://www.suspensionmaxx.com/silverado.html

I have them on my 2008 and they work great. I have another set if you need it. E-mail me at [email protected].

BTW, I've been plowing with Chevy's since 1989 and I'm here to tell you they are the best for plowing!


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## Monte (Feb 2, 2007)

I just picked up my new 2500HD crew cab. I installed a 810 Blizzard plow myself today. I have to raise the front end a little bit to level it out. I looked at the tag on the torsion bars and they are GK's. I do not understand the engineering with this. Why not put the heavier bars right from the beginning? I am trying to get a price on the most heaviest bar. A couple of the mechanics at the dealership are trying to tell me that switching the bars will not make any difference. They say leave it alone because if I change them I will be running into problems. Nobody has any knowledge about this topic. I tried to talk to my salesman, but it was like a dead end street. He did not want to help me. Has any one bought the heaviest bars and installed them? Is it a hard job?


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## rcpd34 (Jan 16, 2004)

Monte;424717 said:


> I just picked up my new 2500HD crew cab. I installed a 810 Blizzard plow myself today. I have to raise the front end a little bit to level it out. I looked at the tag on the torsion bars and they are GK's. I do not understand the engineering with this. Why not put the heavier bars right from the beginning? I am trying to get a price on the most heaviest bar. A couple of the mechanics at the dealership are trying to tell me that switching the bars will not make any difference. They say leave it alone because if I change them I will be running into problems. Nobody has any knowledge about this topic. I tried to talk to my salesman, but it was like a dead end street. He did not want to help me. Has any one bought the heaviest bars and installed them? Is it a hard job?


I swapped the bars out on a previous truck. I put Big Block bars for a 3/4 ton on a 1/2 ton and it made a big difference. However, they are expensive. Around $200 per bar. I had a buddy do the work who owns a front end shop and it was a b!tch. If your not careful, those things can kill you. They are under tremendous tension. You need a special tool to get them off. You ought to try the adjustable keys first. I've had them on four of my trucks so far and they work great.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Monte;424717 said:


> I just picked up my new 2500HD crew cab. I installed a 810 Blizzard plow myself today. I have to raise the front end a little bit to level it out. I looked at the tag on the torsion bars and they are GK's. I do not understand the engineering with this. Why not put the heavier bars right from the beginning? I am trying to get a price on the most heaviest bar. A couple of the mechanics at the dealership are trying to tell me that switching the bars will not make any difference. They say leave it alone because if I change them I will be running into problems. Nobody has any knowledge about this topic. I tried to talk to my salesman, but it was like a dead end street. He did not want to help me. Has any one bought the heaviest bars and installed them? Is it a hard job?


Have you tried cranking your GK's yet. That is the first thing you do, I'm sure the stock keys and bars will be fine, I know lots with the same setup.


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## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

Timbrens and 4 to 6 turns on the bars


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## Monte (Feb 2, 2007)

Tommorrow morning the truck is going to the dealer to have the bars cranked up and the toe reset. I will get a set of timbrens. I just wondering what GM's thinking is?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Monte;424787 said:


> Tommorrow morning the truck is going to the dealer to have the bars cranked up and the toe reset. I will get a set of timbrens. I just wondering what GM's thinking is?


They are thinking about the 62% of the pick ups that never see a days work beyond a load of mulch or a jet ski. They're thinking of all the people who buy a Pick-up as a family car. They're providing the soft ride and smooth road compliance that the American driver demands. Ask anybody, they'll tell you Chevy (GMC) has the best ride.


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## Monte (Feb 2, 2007)

Basher, you are right. There should be an option to get the biggest bars. Let the people decide.


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## omya (Nov 30, 2006)

Everybody knows GMC is the best. Oh.... wait.. If I put a plow on my 1/2 ton GMC, it voids the powertrain warrantee....:realmad: Anyway.. I have heard some of the guys on WWW.[URL="http://www.fullsizechevy.com"]http://www.fullsizechevy.com[/URL]talking about using ford keys in their gm's to lift the front end. Supposed to be a good mod that costs less than GM aftermarket keys.


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