# public storage



## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

what nat'l got the contract for public storage? they thought they had problems before? Need replace work for 3 trucks, 3 skids, and 2 salt trucks. I sure as he!! not working for a nat'l. bet it lasts like usm and walmart.


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## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

sms assist got them.....


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

funney they wanted me to do a best buy 3 acres plow shovel and salt for $240 total. Told them that would cover a salting came all the way up to $475 told him to pound sand somewhere else.

I was at about $150,000 for 11 sites bet sms offers me $50,000 this year.


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## PTTP08 (Dec 9, 2009)

HA I got the huge list of those. I seen the price and I about crapped my pants I politley said no thanks. We focus on quality not quantity. I was told you only need plow trucks no heavy equipment..... I laughed. They don't see the work involved in these kinda of jobs they just see square feet thats it. But on some of SMS job sites the prices are fair. I will be plowing some of there sites this winter but not the storage units.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

Yeah I got a packet to. even if it were wide open lots who could plow,salt, shovel and icemelt
2.75 acres for $300? Public storage is about as difficult as it comes no way your doing them with just a truck.


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## deluxeco (Nov 20, 2002)

I have plowed the storages for years and was shocked they went with a national company. In northeast ohio we are pounded by lake effect snow. Working for national firms in the past has been a nightmare, we had to contract with accu weather for snow totals, unfortunetly many of the sites did not have reporting stations close by , so the airport would list 1.8 inches of snowfall and our site would have a foot. Also with the drifting and snow falling off of roofs at the storages a four inch snowfall could easily yield several inches of snow.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

Are you going to work with SMS? No way I can. I would want more than when it was my account for all the bs hoops they want you to jump thru. Who could possibly plow, shovel, ice melt, and salt 2.75 acres for $300 or even $600


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Wow, i have never herd of #'s like that.. we are all per push


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## deluxeco (Nov 20, 2002)

submitted prices to SMS they told me I was outrageous lol good luck to the lowballer who will have the pleasure of plowing these!


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## BC Handyman (Dec 15, 2010)

Wow, I'm glad there is no national storage brands here, just alot of individuals that own storage lots. I've never plowed one though, but that seems low. They all look to be a pita to plow.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

snowman55;1507008 said:


> Are you going to work with SMS? No way I can. I would want more than when it was my account for all the bs hoops they want you to jump thru. Who could possibly plow, shovel, ice melt, and salt 2.75 acres for $300 or even $600


If this is a open lot push then $600 isn't bad money for that lot...jmo


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## jbovara (Nov 9, 2011)

You are under the assumtion that companies that use national snow managment companies care about how the parking lot looks. Its all bout passing risk and liability to the next guy. The national snow managment company buys risk and liabilty from the location to come up with a contract value. Once they sell it on to the person actually doing the work there money is allready made.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

And how did that work out for Walart and USM


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Local managers may want quality, but the bean counter in a cubicle half way across the country doesn't care - he only cares about the check he has to write.

It's becoming more and more common every year. You can talk about the Wal Mart issues, doesn't matter. You can turn the work down, someone will do it.

The people that will do the work maybe do not understand their real costs of doing the work, maintaining and replacing the equipment, taxes etcc or they are just huge players in this business that can operate on low single digit margins.

Whatever it is, it's here to stay and it's only going to get worse. Find your niche, do it well and charge accordingly. The inly thing you can count on is lower wages, higher costs.


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## jbovara (Nov 9, 2011)

When stores accross the nation get hit with a blizzard on black Friday and stores with sub par vendors cant get shoppers in and out of the parking lot then things will change.


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## snowbrothers101 (Jul 27, 2009)

SMS Assist? My side hurts from laughing. They make Dentco look like Superstars!


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Don't kid yourself on that.

1) The bean counters track sales and costs reoprted up the ladder. What bean counter is going to say their dept screwed up and hired XYZ who couldn't get it done and therefore sales were down?

2) A blizzard on a big sales day? If Johhny on the spot has the lot black and wet, it makes no difference because Suzy can't get her Kia down the interstate or city road. Although we all know, it seems everyone needs to shop during big snow events.

3) Joey no show gets there late, if at all, you think that's gonna stop Suzy from pulling in that parking lot? It may stop her from leaving but it isn't stopping her from entering. And she'll probably park infront of that snowbank or in an uncleared area.

It is what it is, corporate America is in the same situation as every individual person or small business. Costs are rising, incoming is stagnet or decreasing. It's not greed, it's need. To maintain, costs need cut which may or may not lead to less quality.

To the people that say it's corporate greed, look at your own finances. Are you being greedy when you ask for a raise because it costs you more to eat and drive?

We've been buying Chineese junk for how long now? Have you ever been to a Harbor Freight store and seen how busy it is with people buying throw away tools? Our culture has been changing over the years, good quality parts or work isn't desired like it used to be.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

anyone in mn signed up with sms? have they found contractors for th 44 locations at these prices? will they be calling the night before a storm offering decent pay to take them on? they wanted me to do 22 of them, that is at least 4 dedicated skids and trucks and salt trucks


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

So just so I'm clear...these prices cant work, right? So if I have wheel loaders with pushers that drive by 2 ps it doesn't make sense to take on a little extra work swing in there and push it quick? Come on, some of you guys need some serious economics help.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

I don't know what the public storages look like by you but an 8'ft pusher on a skid is tight on some of them. Plus are you going to park the loader while you shovel? where you gonna carry the icemelt? got 2 tons of salt and a spreader on your loader? snow gates are 8" wide, how are you going to push all the snow into storage areas? + your are on the hook for ALL liability, and the contract has numerous outs for them to not pay you.

Saying I don't get it, because you can just" swing in there and push it quick?" Is the same as SMS bidding these sites without even physically veiwing them.

I get economics. minored in it. I agree most don't. Opportunity cost is the most unconsidered cost. I spend 100's of hours watching the weather, making plans, checking sites. I require compensation for that. While I am doing these things I am missing opportunities to do something else with that time. 

Average person gets 657,000 hours of life. 140,000 ave spent in childhood, 114,000 are spend in retirement if your lucky. leaving 403,000 hours of my life to allocate to sleep, family, work, and things I enjoy. I value every one of those because I can get no more.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

snowman55;1512535 said:


> I don't know what the public storages look like by you but an 8'ft pusher on a skid is tight on some of them. Plus are you going to park the loader while you shovel? no, one of our sidewalk crews that also drive right by will stop and do them quick. where you gonna carry the icemelt? got 2 tons of salt and a spreader on your loader? one of the salt trucks that also drives right by both locations will salt them. snow gates are 8" wide, how are you going to push all the snow into storage areas? plenty of room at the ends of the buildings, stacking after the fact is expected and will be approved by the customer. + your are on the hook for ALL liability, and the contract has numerous outs for them to not pay you.
> 
> Saying I don't get it, because you can just" swing in there and push it quick?" Is the same as SMS bidding these sites without even physically veiwing them.
> 
> ...


Just for the record $300 for a 2.75 acre site isnt accurate pricing. If thats what they offered, they would have adjusted the price accordingly based on the actual size, which is why they require you to do a site survey. (which you should be doing on all of your sites anyway)


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

Very few we did had any room for storage and moving of the snow out gates was necessary to plow the lots, The prices were clear and the lot size was stated on their proposal, They sent the packet October 17 for 22 sites every one of them were priced at about what a salt application should be.

You have 3 different crews stopping at a site, put down 1.5 ton of salt, and $20 worth of ice melt, for $300?

I agree there is diminishing cost to a point. but every machine and labor hour has unbillable overhead costs associated to it. Every account and invoice has a cost.

I don't do snow for fun or just to keep equipment busy. This is a tough industry and I am not going to do it for a little over cost, so places like SMS can keep all the profit, and come up with excuses not to pay me.

Sms has google earth and PS gave them sq ft. look at this. Maybe I have learned nothing in the past 20 years but I can't see how to do this for $300 or even $600. not 1 spot for snow all must be moved thru the snow gates http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=45.005551,-93.447103&spn=0.002226,0.003363&t=h&z=19


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

try this http://goo.gl/maps/0wwUa


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

The ones we are doing look nothing like that. That looks like a complete nightmare. I won't post pictures of the ones we are doing on a public forum, but they are much much easier. 

My point was, there are certain sites, for certain companies that make sense. Im simply saying that not everyone that takes work is a lowballer.

I didnt want to take anymore than the two, simply because we wouldnt have the equipment in place and the $ doesn't warrant dedicating equipment.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

That is one ugly site and should have been built in Florida.

Site planners don't do much planning now do they.

That's a place I probably would shoot a what's it worth price at and walk away - their ain't enough advil in the pharmacy for that one. Well, maybe if the location averaged 10" of snow a year, it could be considered.


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## Kingcuster (Oct 27, 2012)

Thats what most of them around my area look like. They just pack as many storage units they can into an enclosed area.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

My point was/is These nat'l guys have no idea want takes place on the ground. They are mere brokers who sell us as a comodity. Do they send out these bids without even looking at a google image? or do they just have no clue what they are looking at? 

You guys got it at a glance. I am not going to work for a contractor who is that lazy or incompetent.


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## jbovara (Nov 9, 2011)

framer1901;1512139 said:


> Don't kid yourself on that.
> 
> 1) The bean counters track sales and costs reoprted up the ladder. What bean counter is going to say their dept screwed up and hired XYZ who couldn't get it done and therefore sales were down?
> 
> ...


Nice, my thoughts exactly.


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## keithcichy (Oct 30, 2006)

*PS/S&S Assist*

I have plowed for PS since 96' in Chicago area. I know S&S assist prices and know what it takes do plow and salt them. I have plowed every PS at some point from Park City to Joliet to Evanston to Elgin. Some seasons I have plowed 40+ properties. You can't plow em for those prices. Not unless you like to do crap work and look like a fool. The whole thing is a joke.


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## keithcichy (Oct 30, 2006)

*PS/S&S Assist*

Also, they are allowing 2 saltings per 24 hours, at the discretion of the plowing co. They also want them plowed every 2". Still, it doesnt work. $90 to put down 3 tons of salt. Please. Even if you charge them 2 saltings and half the material, which I wouldnt do, you still cant make anything. There is no sun and not enough vehicle traffic, so the amt of salt needed is increased greatly. As someone mentioned, 4" with a bit of wind is double from the metal cold roofs. These places require professionals with hard core equipment and capability of moving so much snow when the big ones hit. Rude awakening.


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## Oxmow (Dec 6, 2006)

SMS called me to bid some Dollar General stores her in town. They first wanted me to do their site survey at each one and use their phone system to report as well as faxed paperwork. Didn't even offer a price for it just expected it. When I questioned them they said they were authorized to pay 35 bucks per survey. 2 hours worth of work for 35.00 each...said no and hung up!


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

They will just call the next guy on their list and more than likely he will do whatever they want. And accept the jobs before he even hears the pay.


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## keithcichy (Oct 30, 2006)

And for expecting someone to pay you when you stack the snow at the ends of the buildings is incorrect. Not gonna happen. If there is any space on any fence line no matter how far from your pile, you need to put it there. PS doesn't allow snow to be stacked on building ends. You better know what they will let you do before you make your own rules, because you won't get paid. You have to be within 18" of all doors. You will have to put all snow against fences or in open areas, which are few and far between because they use every sf for parking. Most aisles are pitched to the center, some drastically. Pusher won't clean them nice, so either a truck w/ v plow or LOTS more salt. No sun, little vehicle traffic, so plan on lots more salt!!! Snow removal might get approved, but you need to utilize all space first. If you get it, good luck! You will not make $ at these prices. 19 years I did them.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

some were salted last nite. absolutely no precip. hows PS gonna like that?


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

i hate to say it. but until the economy gets better and people go back to their preferred jobs, this is going to keep getting worse. The reason that people buy plows and mowers is its an easy job to do (i didnt say do right, jsut do) and they can pay their bills. in fact i asked a buddy of mine why he only charges 25 an hour. "it pays the bills" was his response.

people are desperate, i see people pulling small mowers wiht suv's all the time. i know they will go back to work once its offered. but for the moment, 25 an hour is more than 0 an hour.

im in the same boat myself. i offer lower prices, and compared to some im lowballing, compared to others im just competitive. but unlike most of hte lowballers. i at least make a profit. they are simply trying to make up the wages they lost when they got laid off.

in short. 

stop shopping at walmart.


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

snowman55;1512612 said:


> try this http://goo.gl/maps/0wwUa


How in the heck would you even approach that! It looks like anything more then what can be burned off with salt is too much accumulation for that site!! Salt it 50 times a day and hope it all melts! Cause plowing it ummm, no thanks! :laughing::crying::laughing:


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

salt the small storms haul away on a dump truck the big ones. i would hav eno idea what that woudl be worth


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

Here's a question for you guys that do storage units...

I've thought of doing this at the one storage place I plow, but we haven't had a blizzard to try it yet...

What if you went in with a tractor/blower while the winds were still blowing hard and just shot the snow straight up in the air to let the wind carry it away? Start on the side the wind is coming from, and work isle by isle to the other end. Maybe instead of having drifts up to the roof line to deal with plowing, you could have almost nothing to plow after the storm? I know I can blow the snow staight up 20-30', that's got to be high enough that blizzard winds would grab it and blow it away.


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

the guys in Moorhead will thank you for all the snow. You have the right idea but all you have to do is blow it over the building. However, by the third alley that snow gets mighty thick so you start to lose time by the third alley. Also you can only do this in a industrial area or at least have neighbors that don't care about a little extra snow along the back of the buildings. Another thing you have to consider is if the snow gets packed down and the temperature goes up, it starts to melt and the water goes under the doors because it can't get to the drains, opps plowers fault


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

fireball;1525761 said:


> the guys in Moorhead will thank you for all the snow. You have the right idea but all you have to do is blow it over the building. However, by the third alley that snow gets mighty thick so you start to lose time by the third alley. Also you can only do this in a industrial area or at least have neighbors that don't care about a little extra snow along the back of the buildings. Another thing you have to consider is if the snow gets packed down and the temperature goes up, it starts to melt and the water goes under the doors because it can't get to the drains, opps plowers fault


Hey Fireball. :salute:

Don't you think if it was blown straight up during the high winds of the blizzard it would not come down at all anywhere noticable? Definately not within 100 feet, and after it went that far it would be so spread out that it would be impossible to tell where it fell as it was pretty much just returned to the storm then.

The place I do is in an industrial area with no neighbors except some pit and crusher piles. So no real worry about neighbors anyways. But I don't think it would even be noticable to neighbors if the wind was blowing hard enough and if you got it up in the air high enough.

And yes, I understand the drainage issues. We don't pile on the drains. And if they don't let us salt to keep the snow melting and flowing down the drains then it is not our fault if it backs up. It would be the property owners liability then for not letting us salt.


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

snowman55;1512535 said:


> Average person gets 657,000 hours of life. 140,000 ave spent in childhood, 114,000 are spend in retirement if your lucky. leaving 403,000 hours of my life to allocate to sleep, family, work, and things I enjoy. I value every one of those because I can get no more.


Well that's a depressing thought. What in the he!! am I doing on here? I better make the most of my time--maybe wifey is feeling frisky! I better go check!:waving:


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

OC&D;1525924 said:


> Well that's a depressing thought. What in the he!! am I doing on here? I better make the most of my time--maybe wifey is feeling frisky! I better go check!:waving:


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

OC&D;1525924 said:


> Well that's a depressing thought. What in the he!! am I doing on here? I better make the most of my time--maybe wifey is feeling frisky! I better go check!:waving:


Who was I kidding?


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

OC&D;1525988 said:


> Who was I kidding?


^ him? just a guess. i derno


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

Its only in Fargo that the wind blows all the time. It becomes a question of timing, if you want to do it. If you do it at the height of the storm, you might end up with an additional two inchs requiring you to come back on your dime. In the past. a lot of guys did these units as a add on during the day hours since you can't get into them during the nights, and there were no rush to get them open. However these national providers have changed the ball game by requiring quick service.

As to the drainage issue, some of these units are perfectly flat and the floor of the units are only a inch higher than the drive. What happens is that it rains the day after a snowstorm. Even though the drive is clear by our standards and the drain is open, that little coating left is enough to cause the water to weap under the doors. If you read the rental agreement, the customer is responsible for elevating their belongings to prevent water damage. Sometimes your insurance company refuses coverage on that clause and sometimes they pay to eliminate the nusiance. Either way, you waste your time with the paperwork. You can do 1000 residential drives for 10 years and never have a claim, you can do a Walmart and have 10 claims with one storm. Some jobs just a have higher probability of problems than they are worth.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

Sorry OC i must have worn her out yesterday


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

coudl you pile the snow in a corner and use a blower to chop up the pile and blow it over the fence?

not requiring timing with a storm that might not be that windy?


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

snowman55;1527120 said:


> Sorry OC i must have worn her out yesterday


Someone always beats me to it.:crying:


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

Sorry man couldn,t help it. My wife beats me to it herself


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

Haha! The last time she says "yes" is at the alter, no?


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

snowman55;1527633 said:


> Sorry man couldn,t help it. My wife beats me to it herself


with 33 trucks i can imagine you have more money than time.

dot dot dot.

caint wait till im in that position


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

yeah 33 trucks sitting in the yard. I tell people I am now in the equipment storage business.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

snowman55;1527890 said:


> yeah 33 trucks sitting in the yard. I tell people I am now in the equipment storage business.


ouch, that is even painful just to read.


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## PTTP08 (Dec 9, 2009)

I was just wondering does anybody know who got these storage units?? SMS asked me but I said I can't do it for that price can ya come up like 2 grand per site they said nope not at all.


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## Snowman7 (Sep 24, 2009)

*Public Storage SMS*

Did anyone take on the Public Storage accts for SMS last year?


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Yes.......


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## Dire (Feb 5, 2013)

I did a few PS and Wal greens and FD and Burgerking


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## hansenslawncare (Feb 23, 2012)

framer1901;1512139 said:


> Don't kid yourself on that.
> 
> 1) The bean counters track sales and costs reoprted up the ladder. What bean counter is going to say their dept screwed up and hired XYZ who couldn't get it done and therefore sales were down?
> 
> ...


Very well said sir!


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

what publics did you do Dire? how did you make out on them? did you salt and icemelt them every event? How much removal did you have to do?


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## Dire (Feb 5, 2013)

The ps. R very pick where they want the snow. A lot of them u had to push the snow from one end all the way over to the over end. And every area in the park car /Trailer area need to be cleaned out. So ur going in between stuff I would not do it again. They r a pain to deal with. I even had a bob cat. But they wanted all snow gone. In every single area and there not very much room to put the snow.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

Agreed my exp also. I didn't mind doing the work but no way could i do it for the pitance SMS was offering. Extremely difficult and expensive to service.


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## Snow Picasso (Dec 15, 2004)

jbovara;1511494 said:


> You are under the assumtion that companies that use national snow managment companies care about how the parking lot looks. Its all bout passing risk and liability to the next guy. The national snow managment company buys risk and liabilty from the location to come up with a contract value. Once they sell it on to the person actually doing the work there money is allready made.


Absolutely, positively, dead nuts on!!!!! If you want to stop the national companies......our industry needs to stop helping them!


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## snowbrothers101 (Jul 27, 2009)

Are storage units more difficult to plow? They seem like they would be with all of those garage doors, narrow lanes, minimal storage etc. I'll take an open lot anytime over that set up.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

It takes a little more time yes. esspicialy if you do not have a scooping plow, straight or v. (which is the case for open lots as well) but the main issue is where to locate the snow. many of these places are so packed with storage units theres nowhere to put the snow


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## Dire (Feb 5, 2013)

if you don't mind me asking what are you guys getting from sms for plow the public storage


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

birddseedd;1646604 said:


> It takes a little more time yes. esspicialy if you do not have a scooping plow, straight or v. (which is the case for open lots as well) but the main issue is where to locate the snow. many of these places are so packed with storage units theres nowhere to put the snow


Yeah a v plow would be great... I used a 200" wb F550, the longest frame model with a 12' body to salt and plow them, not terrible to turn around with but had a 9' straight boss plow with wings. I could keep it dead scoop down a whole alley.... keep in mind NJ never got much at all last year. I'd have a hard time with a monster storm though for sure.

Some locations had not 2ft width of anywhere to stack snow. Think about a box, all interior sides of the box have doors of some various widths. . Inside that box are two smaller boxes dead center, also with doors.. Where do you put the snow besides out the front gate that closes 10 seconds after you punch in and go through?

and Dire... they actually didnt pay too bad, the main issue was that there was not a reasonable way to actually plow them, than to blow down the lanes and just push the snow to the sides, which made quick work of it an then considering the time taken, pay was great. I did have them approve early before the season, that any accumulating snow, and im talking a miniscule 4-6" storm would be enough to require loader/removal service for all locations. Only one or two that we did had ANYWHERE to put the snow. The rest would easily require us to come in with a 3 man crew, one skid/tractor loader with a snow bucket, likely starting with a 8-10' pushbox instead, a snow blower operator, shoveler or one of our small tractors with a blade or blower on it too. It would easily take 4-6hrs for them to remove snow from a 6-10" storm. If it was major, like 20", dry and drifting, they'd be there for 12+ hrs or i'd need a 6 man crew to keep it closer to 5-7hrs. There was no way around them having to pay hourly for real snow removal since it would require most times, taking it all out the front gate and stacking it somewhere on the small lawn areas.

Salt prices wern't bad, pita with all the gates and codes and stuff though. PS in general was fairly easy to work for, managers were thrilled we showed up, on the dot, early in the AM, even when there was only a slight chance of freezing etc.... their prior service must have been joe blow jonny come plow my driveway type of guys or something because all of them were pretty impressed with us.

Walgreens on the other hand, was nothing but complaints... mainly that they claimed we "wernt there"or "didnt need salting" or they simply would never sign off on their tickets the day or two after when requested.... we still have a pretty big balance due with them, all for Walgreens services.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

PTTP08;1582667 said:


> I was just wondering does anybody know who got these storage units?? SMS asked me but I said I can't do it for that price can ya come up like 2 grand per site they said nope not at all.


we were paid per push and per salting.. not seasonal.. 2k is chump change for one of those, especially because you'll always need loader service after any snow storm.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Dire;1645402 said:


> The ps. R very pick where they want the snow. A lot of them u had to push the snow from one end all the way over to the over end. And every area in the park car /Trailer area need to be cleaned out. So ur going in between stuff I would not do it again. They r a pain to deal with. I even had a bob cat. But they wanted all snow gone. In every single area and there not very much room to put the snow.


Were you contracted seasonal for them? i'd love for them to request that from us in NJ, its paid hourly loader rates then. I told them right from the get go, each site would need a skid steer in there after every storm because theres no where to put snow besides into corners and bucket it out afterwards.

PM me if you have any questions


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## Dean14 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ramairfreak98ss;1647269 said:


> Were you contracted seasonal for them? i'd love for them to request that from us in NJ, its paid hourly loader rates then. I told them right from the get go, each site would need a skid steer in there after every storm because theres no where to put snow besides into corners and bucket it out afterwards.
> 
> PM me if you have any questions


You doing them again this year? Who's the Mgmt company on that, SMS everywhere?


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## NJSnowMgt (Aug 25, 2014)

Dean14;1649823 said:


> You doing them again this year? Who's the Mgmt company on that, SMS everywhere?


It was Ferrandino & sons that had them this past season... they're very much alike SMS... although SMS did pay sooner and was much easier to work for than Ferrandino... that being said, neither will pay you in full, they'll find a reason to shave roughly 20-25% off your total invoiced and Ferrandino requires invoices cut per day's service per site... yeah we had thousands of invoices and then they cut money off each one here and there with no notice of reason why.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

NJSnowMgt;1824086 said:


> It was Ferrandino & sons that had them this past season... they're very much alike SMS... although SMS did pay sooner and was much easier to work for than Ferrandino... that being said, neither will pay you in full, they'll find a reason to shave roughly 20-25% off your total invoiced and Ferrandino requires invoices cut per day's service per site... yeah we had thousands of invoices and then they cut money off each one here and there with no notice of reason why.


take them to court?


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## NJSnowMgt (Aug 25, 2014)

birddseedd;1824092 said:


> take them to court?


You can't.

You'd have to pay for an arbitrator to resolve the dispute. After spending that money, and all else fails you could go to court. Arbitration hugely protects the management companies bottom line and they know it.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

NJSnowMgt;1824095 said:


> You can't.
> 
> You'd have to pay for an arbitrator to resolve the dispute. After spending that money, and all else fails you could go to court. Arbitration hugely protects the management companies bottom line and they know it.


whats their excuse for not paying?


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## NJSnowMgt (Aug 25, 2014)

birddseedd;1824096 said:


> whats their excuse for not paying?


It could be any, legitimate or not, but if legitimate, would make collection that much more difficult.

Some companies contractual wording contradicts industry standards greatly and would be hard to win for that side in court even if it was part of the contract.


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## birddseedd (Jul 12, 2010)

count the ilegitimate ones. sue for that much if its worth it.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

birddseedd;1824153 said:


> count the ilegitimate ones. sue for that much if its worth it.


Agreed......


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## Glenn Lawn Care (Sep 28, 2009)

I know a local guy that did one here in mn. They sucked with 3 straight blades. I don't know if he still has it or not.


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