# "Utility Flag" type marker pictures for curbs, parking lots, etc....



## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Got my flags today from Blackburn Mfg., so as stated in a previous thread, I said I'd take some pictures.

The first couple are the flags in a box. The box is about 10"x2'x6", not much room to carry around 1000 flags, much less than 1000 furring strips, conduit, fiberglass markers, etc.

Again, these cost me $92.58, flags, printing and shipping, all completed and received in 5 business days.

These were taken at a Famous Daves BBQ, and don't show up the greatest against the red mulch, but you can somewhat get the idea.

Also, when the picture was taken with them in the box, the flash pretty much washed the color out. They're a typical hot pink color, not a faded pink, as the look in the first pic or two.


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## nms0219 (Jan 20, 2007)

aren't those way too small? When it snows arent they just going to bend over and get covered. JMO Nick


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## ondagawood (Sep 19, 2007)

nms0219;416370 said:


> aren't those way too small? When it snows arent they just going to bend over and get covered. JMO Nick


 Yeah, they are or put them in the snow pile when done pushing !


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Once you have the snow pile there, don't you see that there's a snow pile there?? Do you still need a marker to show that there's a snow pile there? 

They don't get pushed over by snowfall. Sheesh, how big are the snowflakes in your area???


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## ondagawood (Sep 19, 2007)

LwnmwrMan22;416377 said:


> Once you have the snow pile there, don't you see that there's a snow pile there?? Do you still need a marker to show that there's a snow pile there?
> 
> They don't get pushed over by snowfall. Sheesh, how big are the snowflakes in your area???


 I think what WE meant was they might be too small to start with, its a great idea but those flags might get buried in the first decent snow piling (push) thats all, please don't be offended. I might do the same thing. Where did you get those made ?


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

ondagawood;416383 said:


> I think what WE meant was they might be too small to start with, its a great idea but those flags might get buried in the first decent snow piling (push) thats all, please don't be offended. I might do the same thing. Where did you get those made ?


They're 21" tall, you can get taller ones if you'd like. I personally don't because the curb is already 5" tall, so even if I push the flag into the ground 5", I'm still 20" above the surface of the parking lot.

If I'm not at a property before the snow depth gets to 20", then there's something else SERIOUSLY wrong, especially with doing 28 lots with 3 trucks.

Yes, once I plow snow, over, especially if the whole lot gets winged to one side, then chances are, some of them are going to be buried.

However, now I'm going to have an entire row of plowed snow to mark where a curb line is.

Most of the time, the snow is not going to bend them over. Does the snow push over 1"x3" lath?? Does it push over the fiberglass markers?? No, There's less surface area on the smaller diameter flagstaff to be hit by the plowed snow than the other markers.

No, they're not 3', 4', 5' tall, but again, like I said, hopefully I've been to my properties before the snow gets that deep.

If you have a foreclosed / vacation home, and you live in a lake effect snow area where you can let the drive get deep, then you probably have to use something else.

If you're using a bunch of loaders with pushboxs, pushing into the curbs, then you may want something a little taller.

However, for a pickup / skidsteer, you'd be surprised how bright that hot pink stands out against a field of white.

I got them from Blackburn. There's a link on Lawnsite.com, or I'm sure you can google them.


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## ondagawood (Sep 19, 2007)

Thanks, I appreciate your time typing ALL  that info.


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## nms0219 (Jan 20, 2007)

I just thought that the snow would stick to the flag and pull it over. Maybe its just me living in Buffalo, NY(lots and lots of lake effect) that I dont see how they would work. Thanks Nick


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## CNY Plow (Sep 12, 2007)

LwnmwrMan22 
I guess these guys haven't seen *the field of white* six or ten inches deep 50 or a 1000 square yards or 2-5 acres.
No one has driven on it yet, you're the first one there, YOUR'E THE PLOW GUY!
Now go ram that snow at 30mph and oh.....don't hit that curb.......where was it?
picture that....get the idea now new guys?


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

Do your commercial clients know you are going to put dozens or hundreds of these things on their land all winter?

Not to be a pud but if I owned a place Im good for a few stakes and whatnot, but not turning my business into a big advertising campaign and decorating it with flashy pink flags that detract from my site.


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Snowpower;416723 said:


> Do your commercial clients know you are going to put dozens or hundreds of these things on their land all winter?
> 
> Not to be a pud but if I owned a place Im good for a few stakes and whatnot, but not turning my business into a big advertising campaign and decorating it with flashy pink flags that detract from my site.


There will be no more of these flags than any other type of marker.

I'm not creating obstacles just so I can put more advertising out.

Do you think a commercial place would rather have 1-2' high small little flags, or 3-4' high lath / conduit sticking up?? It's a wash. They're there for a reason. They're there to protect both parties' property. They're there to be able to service a property in a timely matter, I'm not 'idling' up to curbs so I don't damage them or my equipment.

You guys crack me up, just can't think outside the box, huh??


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## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

CNY Plow;416673 said:


> LwnmwrMan22
> I guess these guys haven't seen *the field of white* six or ten inches deep 50 or a 1000 square yards or 2-5 acres.
> No one has driven on it yet, you're the first one there, YOUR'E THE PLOW GUY!
> Now go ram that snow at 30mph and oh.....don't hit that curb.......where was it?
> picture that....get the idea now new guys?


it's up to you, but I suggest looking at your sites before it snows. And also I don't reccomend leaving your sites until they get to 10". Heavy snow or not. Because at 10" you better have more than a truck, and in that case you won't be plowing at 30mph.

And 10" of snow, 30" of snow, or 1" of snow, it all piles up the same. It's pretty easy to spot the humps in the snow where the curbs are.

But hey, that's just my way of doing things.

And on a side note. I've never needed markers for my own sites. I've never damaged a curb. I've hit loose curb stops before, but you don't really have a way to mark them anyways.

Markers are great if you have a lot of subs or different drivers handling your account at any time. But for me, a site map does the trick for the first time out and I can usually remember pretty good from there on in.


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## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

Theres guys around here that use them, I think its a good idea, to get your name out. If I didnt have so many fiberglass markers I would use them. 

Also if kids take them you they get lost, your not out much.


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

LwnmwrMan22;416844 said:


> There will be no more of these flags than any other type of marker.
> 
> I'm not creating obstacles just so I can put more advertising out.
> 
> ...


Well I am just going off the way you had the one marked. I'ts a good idea.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

im actually plowing a walkway out this year since it is even with the tar. on one side though it has a landscaped block wall thats only about five inches high. i want to get as close to the wall as i can to plow the walk that runs along the wall so i dont want to put anything on the ground side of the wall i want something on the cement walkway side of the wall. picture the above but i want to plow as close to the curb as i can. i cant think of a way to mark it. think ill just have to drive up to it and dig my foot in the ground for fishing for it for the whole length of it. since it isnt a straight wall it could suck. its the kind that is put together without cement using the thin slate like rocks.... dont remember what you call it.


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## Snow_Pusher (Sep 4, 2007)

Dont mean to hyjack your thread LwnmwrMan (which by the way, I think your flag markers are a great idea, and I'd be curious as to see how they hold up)

On a slightly different note, and this question is directed more to the industry than any one in particular.

Dont you think by puting up markers you then assume a certain liability? 

By not placing markers our liability is more or less assumed. Where as by placing curb markers we now indicate that we will not damage the property since it is clearly marked. 

I've been plowing for 7 years or so now I guess, and it isnt too difficult to avoid hitting curbs. Some of the less prominant curbs are a bit tricky bu I have found that on the few occassions I have clipped one its more or less because I was either in a bit of a rush or not paying attention. I'm not sure markers would have avoided these occurences. 

I'm not sure if any of our property owners would complain about a nicked curb, but I feel if we place markers out then it would give them more of an arguing stance, since we clearly marked the curb and yet we still hit / damaged it. Where as, if we dont mark them, then we simply have an assumed liability where we may be able to defend our actions better in those rare instances.

Just a thought.


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## Lawn Care Plus (Oct 23, 2006)

It looks like a great idea to me. I would go for hunter orange with black lettering.

Tim


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Snow_Pusher;418493 said:


> Dont mean to hyjack your thread LwnmwrMan (which by the way, I think your flag markers are a great idea, and I'd be curious as to see how they hold up)
> 
> On a slightly different note, and this question is directed more to the industry than any one in particular.
> 
> ...


My take on it is, that if you plow the lot, you're already liable for ANY damage, whether to curbs, turf, ornamentals, signs, buildings, anything on that property. Also, I try to minimize the amount of damage possible to a plow / truck, since if one of those breaks down, espcially early in the route, then there's just that much more work on the others to complete.

If you're the only one plowing, it's not that big of an issue. I personally plow, along with my dad (73 years young) and this year I'm adding one other guy.

We all have our regular 4-5-6 different lots to plow, but there's 4 others that we each get to whenever we're done with our usual. It's just nice to be able to pull into a lot, have 6" of snow on the ground, and yes, you can see where the humps are with the snow on the curbs, but you can just speed things up because you don't have to "feel" for the curbs, which then means getting on to the next property sooner.


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Lawn Care Plus;418525 said:


> It looks like a great idea to me. I would go for hunter orange with black lettering.
> 
> Tim


I used pink, because there's no utility company around here flagging with pink. Electrical companies use orange here and I don't want confusion.


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## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

Snow_Pusher;418493 said:


> Dont mean to hyjack your thread LwnmwrMan (which by the way, I think your flag markers are a great idea, and I'd be curious as to see how they hold up)
> 
> On a slightly different note, and this question is directed more to the industry than any one in particular.
> 
> ...


I agree with Lawnmrwman on this, we are going to have to repair any damages anyhow. I know about 95% of our accounts like the back of my hand. But at 2am with 4" of snow on the ground, its not the same, and I can speed along with out thinking twice.

But you put a diff driver on that lot he may not be sure where every thing is.It also makes it ez to find the drives and stuff.

I also think it makes the client feel like you care about them.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

The reason the whole 'flag idea' doesn't make sense in this situation, is because you say the whole point of the flag's is so you can build up a bank over them - and then you wont need them anymore because you can follow the snow bank as your boundary.

Well using that logic - there can't be any more obvious of a bank than those curbs. And when you start out for the first plow to cover those flags up - you're going to be able to see those curbs sticking up way easier than you'll be able to see the boundaries in a snow bank you piled up.

See what i mean? It's a conundrum: You're using flag markers with A+ boundaries (curbs) to follow, to create a situation without markers that has C+ boundaries (snow piles) to follow.  

If you're plowing an area that doesn't have curbs to follow then it's not as bad of an idea.

and why PINK flags? Those have got to be the ugliest flags ever, even more ugly when staked in red mulch. I can't imagine pink flags would look much better set against a green lawn either. Just MO.


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

cjasonbr;418674 said:


> The reason the whole 'flag idea' doesn't make sense in this situation, is because you say the whole point of the flag's is so you can build up a bank over them - and then you wont need them anymore because you can follow the snow bank as your boundary.
> 
> Well using that logic - there can't be any more obvious of a bank than those curbs. And when you start out for the first plow to cover those flags up - you're going to be able to see those curbs sticking up way easier than you'll be able to see the boundaries in a snow bank you piled up.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I'm like most guys here, knowing the properties like the back of my hand, without really needing to stake, and in fact, didn't stake ANYTHING for the first 10 years of plowing.

However, as in 99% of this business, or ANY service business, it's about client perception. As long as clients perceive that you're taking care of / making efforts, that's all that matters. If you didn't plow the snow for 24 hours after an event, the client would perceive that you're not doing your job. If you called, said all 3 trucks are broken down, you've called 4 different companies to get the lot cleared, and they'll be there shortly, the client is going to perceive that you're making all attempts to get the lot cleared.

Yes, the curbs will make a line, but not all snow falls like a blanket over a property. There are areas where the snow will drift in. It won't drift into a 3' high bank, but you might have an area that will drift 4-5-6'+ out from the curb, flat. So now you really have no idea where that curb is, since the snow just doesn't drop straight down off the edge of the curb.

Also, it may take 3-4-5 plowings to eventually get the bank over the height of the flag. Remember, these flags are 18" high once in the ground. Any snow that falls already where the flags are, most likely will compact somewhat as you "wing" snow onto it. This same "winged" snow is going to be compacted as well. You are not going to plow snow along a curb and have it stay as fluffy as it was when it fell. Usually a long straight shot (most likely the area where you'll have flags, if any, to mark penisulas, turns, sewer drains) you'll be "winging" the snow, rather than pushing forward, backing up, forward, all the way along the curb. Remember, I'm talking fast food / bank / gas station (not truck stops) type accounts.

As I stated earlier, I used pink flags because orange and yellow are already used by actual utility companies around here. I target areas with new construction because I'm usually not going up against places that I have to underbid to get the account, usually by alot too.

Orange and yellow are out. Green is a flourescent green which I feel stands out against a field of white when snow is falling already. I suppose I could have chosen red, but I didn't.

These are not made to be a compliment to the landscaping. I'm not trying to make a property prettier by using these. They are there for a purpose. Yes, they are there for 5 months of the year.

I had 20 accounts last year I used these at, I have those 20 accounts back, along with 3 others that are neighbors to accounts I did last year.

I don't see any difference than using the orange or yellow stakes, they're all colors that are made to contrast areas around them, that's why we use visibility stakes to begin with.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

I'd think you got those contracts again because you do good work, not because they're fascinated with your pink marker-flags.

Maybe they all think your flags look like crap - but are in reality dealing with it because they appreciate your premium service. heh heh.... could be.....


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

cjasonbr;418683 said:


> I'd think you got those contracts again because you do good work, not because they're fascinated with your pink marker-flags.
> 
> Maybe they all think your flags look like crap - but are in reality dealing with it because they appreciate your premium service. heh heh.... could be.....


I agree, and I don't really care. No one complained about them, soooo.... if I can use them, buy 1000 of them for $90-ish, instead of paying at least $500 for 1000 stakes, and carry them all around on the floorboard of the truck, then it's the way I'll go.

I WILL say however though, that I ordered 1000 more just straight pink flags without my name / phone number. After flagging a property, I thought it was too much with the "ad" on every single flag. I'll use the "ad" about every 5th - 6th flag.


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## lawnMaster5000 (Jul 28, 2000)

i do about 60 residentials and use those same types of flags on each property. Since we dont get many plowable snows around here, I mark the properties the day before the forecasted storm and the residents usually pick them up when all the snow melts.

It would be great to have them stay out all season, but it just wont happen around here in the high end residential markets.

The flags work great for marking the drives since there is no curb on most of them and no other way to see the edges of the drives


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

i just picked up a new HOA and don't have enough fiberglass so iWILL order these things ALL with my name on them i will also go with the pink or my color (safety green) thanks for the thread lawnmowerman i would have just bought more $.49 fiberglass


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

One other thing I was going to say. The staff on these are about the same as a wire clothes hanger, so those that are worried about the flag falling over in a snow, take a clothes hanger (if you can find a wire one anymore) and try to bend it over when it's standing in the ground. 

Does it seem like a snowflake is going to bend it??


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