# Anything Sprayer Related, likes, dislikes, pics, Questions?



## Kubota 8540

Seems that threads talking about liquids get hijacked and end up sprayer related. Have questions, problems, whats working well, trying something new, and/or post your pics of your sprayer here.


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## Kubota 8540

Here's a boom valve I use often......... http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.689.1019.2207.3905 and the price is good.


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## Kubota 8540

One of these days I'll get to building one for me.


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## ndnchief

Here is mine


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## AndersonCS

Subscribed. Someday I'll get pics of mine on here.


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## firelwn82

Glad you made this thread. Now maybe I or we wont hi jack someone elses thread.... So we were talking about check valves. I was searching and hinking last night, this am and I think if I hook up 3 motors to a wireless remote it would be alotless expensive and less wiring and valves and such. 1 motor for a sray wand 60psi 1 motor for center section of the spray bar and 1 motor for the outer 2 spray tips on the spray bar. 
So I would have one spray bar wih 4 tips and one spray wand. 3 pumps on a wireless remote. 
What are people thoughts on this setup? I need it to be quit because of a cond HOA I have that complains about noise..


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## firelwn82

AndersonCS;1347253 said:


> Subscribed. Someday I'll get pics of mine on here.


Well today is the day...


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## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1347505 said:


> Glad you made this thread. Now maybe I or we wont hi jack someone elses thread.... So we were talking about check valves. I was searching and hinking last night, this am and I think if I hook up 3 motors to a wireless remote it would be alotless expensive and less wiring and valves and such. 1 motor for a sray wand 60psi 1 motor for center section of the spray bar and 1 motor for the outer 2 spray tips on the spray bar.
> So I would have one spray bar wih 4 tips and one spray wand. 3 pumps on a wireless remote.
> What are people thoughts on this setup? I need it to be quit because of a cond HOA I have that complains about noise..


I found a 4 channel wireless remote set up real cheap, doesn't look too bad but haven't had a chance to play with it yet.

Just have to hook each pump/motor to a 12 volt solenoid, because most wireless remote systems will only handle low amperage, like 5-7 amps generally. Your described set up sounds similar to what I did a couple of weeks ago. Wish I had of taken some pics.


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## Kubota 8540

Sold my sprayer today, now I have to figure out what will replace it. I am kind of thinking 3 zone, electric start and 300 gallon? Sure would be nice if it had a controller like V boxes have to start, choke, throttle, and kill from the cab? I wonder if a poly sprayer pump can be mounted to a vertical shaft engine? Wireless remote set up off a v box could be used to control the engine cheaply that way?

Can this pedestal pump be mounted vertical rather than horizontal?


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## firelwn82

I dont see any reason why you couldn't mount it vertically. I dont think it makes a bit of differance really. Its goint to be full of water while pumping no matter what. Draining it might be a pain but thats not really a big deal. 
Send some pics of the unit you found. I'm going to make one in about a month out of these. http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/bfs/2689391204.html... I found some others super cheap and he has a ton of them. I'm talking hundreds. I may just start building some and putting them on the market as well. payup I see some junk ones selling for holy crap loads of money.


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## Kubota 8540

http://www.amazon.com/Logisys-RM04-4-Channel-Remote-Control/dp/B001RMP7UI


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## firelwn82

ha ha thats funny. I just bought this one. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BRJF62
I was reading about the one you posted and it was only good for 6amps per channel. The one I purchased doesnt say how much. But in the reviews there were a couple f people that sai they were running there winches with them. So I went with he other one. I also picked up a relay pig tail and a relay to wire inline with it.


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## Kubota 8540

That's why I would hook the pump up to a solenoid, I know it does take anywhere near 6 amps to engage a solenoid.


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## firelwn82

So would something like this work? Its used on the spot sprayers fromTSC.


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## Kubota 8540

Yes they should work, but for what they cost I don't know how reliable they will be. Last post should have read it takes no where near 6 amps to activate a solenoid.


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## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1349276 said:


> Last post should have read it takes no where near 6 amps to activate a solenoid.


ha ha I read between the lines. Thats what I was think ing too. But being winter they should hold up because they wont be getting warm. The heat is what kills electrical gizmoes right.. Also what size spray tips should I use. I was thinking 6-80 degree tips about two feet off of the ground should get me good width and soaking pattern? I thank you for all of your nolage and dealing with all of the questions.


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## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1349296 said:


> ha ha I read between the lines. Thats what I was think ing too. But being winter they should hold up because they wont be getting warm. The heat is what kills electrical gizmoes right.. Also what size spray tips should I use. I was thinking 6-80 degree tips about two feet off of the ground should get me good width and soaking pattern? I thank you for all of your nolage and dealing with all of the questions.


I have tried most all fan pattern tips and really didn't like the results. I use TeeJet SJ3 triple stream tips. Seems to get to the pavement quicker and that's where you want the brine. Like drawing lines in the snow with your 5 fingers as a rake.


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## Kubota 8540

Like these:


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## firelwn82

Really?? I dont really see how that would work better. I guess one it starts to melt the snow it will pool out ay? My condo site doesnt get much traffic so I need it to spread out instead of being tracked over. Would I still get the same result?


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## firelwn82

aaaahhhhh ok. I thought it was just one straight stream. That makes more sense now with a picture.


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## Kubota 8540

Check out the pics above. That was about 3/4" of snow, it was gone in 15 minutes.


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## Kubota 8540

I tried the single stream nozzles but didn't like the results I had. They are still on the work bench at the shop.


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## firelwn82

Sweet... Alrighty then. Sounds like I found my tips. How far apart should they be spaced or is that just a trial and error type thing?


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## Kubota 8540

Already Tested these..... 5 gpm electric pump will run 2 SJ3 Blacks..........7 gpm electric pump will run 2 SJ3 Black and 2 SJ3 Gray tips


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## firelwn82

What are the differances between the colors. Im searching now but none o the sites really say besides there bigger. None really say mush about how big or amount of liwuid sprayed or width.


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## Kubota 8540

Her's a chart. They are spaced at 20" apart to get the results listed on the chart.

View attachment SJ 3 Triple tips.pdf


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## firelwn82

Awesome thanks..ussmileyflag


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## Kubota 8540

Built a 60" wide spray bar today for one of those little Japanese trucks. You know the kind, they are like 5 feet wide by 10 feet long and 5 foot high type trucks. I think it would fit in the bed of a full size truck bed? 60" bar, 4 SJ3 black tips and it will spray a total of 7 feet wide.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/uploads/ats50449_japanese_kei_truck01_01.jpg


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## firelwn82

yep I know exactly what your talking about. There is a youtube video of one. Its used on side walks liquid sprayer in back and a blade in the front. The cats meow if you ask me.. I was thinking if I made the bar 85" long and put 5 tips on that should get pretty good coverage. I just have to figure out a good tip size.


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## Kubota 8540

This one has a 200 gallon sprayer in the back......WOW ! I thought he should have gone with boomless nozzles and sprayed 40 feet each side..... LOL


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## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1349335 said:


> This one has a 200 gallon sprayer in the back......WOW ! I thought he should have gone with boomless nozzles and sprayed 40 feet each side..... LOL


ha ha that would be awesome.... lol The truck would probably float in the lake it produced... lol


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## Kubota 8540

I'll post some pics tomorrow night of a 25 gallon sprayer that I'm building that has (2) 5 gpm pumps that are using (2) 5' wide broadcast nozzle system. Total spray pattern of 10 feet wide.


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## firelwn82

Just playng around but this is what my idea is. Obviously the spray tips ideally would over lap eachother correct?


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## terrapro

Kubota 8540;1349340 said:


> I'll post some pics tomorrow night of a 25 gallon sprayer that I'm building that has (2) 5 gpm pumps that are using (2) 5' wide broadcast nozzle system. Total spray pattern of 10 feet wide.


That is exactly what I want to do. Dultmiers website is hard to navigate details, maybe I can track it down in their catalog.

One question I have been trying to figure out...why all the valves and such? Won't the electric pumps work like a valve? Meaning if you turn off the pump won't it not come out much anymore giving you enough time to walk to the back and manually shut the valve when the job is completed?


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## Plow man Foster

terrapro;1349714 said:


> That is exactly what I want to do. Dultmiers website is hard to navigate details, maybe I can track it down in their catalog.
> 
> One question I have been trying to figure out...why all the valves and such? Won't the electric pumps work like a valve? Meaning if you turn off the pump won't it not come out much anymore giving you enough time to walk to the back and manually shut the valve when the job is completed?


You really want to jump in and out the truck after every job?!?!? lol 
(i get mad when i have to get out and shovel!) 
And no, on electric pumps when you turn off the power, thats exactly what you're doing. The liquid will still flow straight out of your boom. DUE TO GRAVITYYYYY. And actually it would slow down to the point where you could shut the valve but you're better off buying a 12V solenoid and just having to flip a switch to close the valve.

*If you're going to build/ buy a setup, do it right! *


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## DodgeBlizzard

I want to get into liquid spraying but nobody does it around here. I want to make my own brine and start spraying. You guys are a great source of information. Ever consider a step by step for us guys that haven't been down this road before? I want to set up an electric truck bed sprayer and a sidewalk sprayer so bad. Funds are tight right now due to other recent purchases. You guys ever consider setting up a how to formula for us semi handy guys wanting to build our own, yet lack the knowlege or experience you guys have in this department? Example: I ventured into another business this year that nobody around here does. I like doing things other people aren't into which gives me a niche. I purchased all the materials through their company and then built it, put the pieces together and laid it out on my own. The material came with specific instructions on where to drill this hole in this tank, what fittings to use where, etc. Even if you guys don't sell the parts, give us links or websites with specifics. Your knowlege and time spent on these manuals would be worth value to guys like me. If I'm willing to purchase all of the materials (with help from you), fab it up myself, would you be willing to do a step by step / how to format?


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## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1349736 said:


> You really want to jump in and out the truck after every job?!?!? lol
> (i get mad when i have to get out and shovel!)
> And no, on electric pumps when you turn off the power, thats exactly what you're doing. The liquid will still flow straight out of your boom. DUE TO GRAVITYYYYY. And actually it would slow down to the point where you could shut the valve but you're better off buying a 12V solenoid and just having to flip a switch to close the valve.
> 
> *If you're going to build/ buy a setup, do it right! *


When I set up a sprayer with any electric pump you DO NOT need any shut off valves for the booms to stop the flow. That is wasting $150-200 dollars. Use a siphon tube out the top of the tank rather than hooking your pump(s) up to the bottom of the tank. Problem solved.


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## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1349714 said:


> That is exactly what I want to do. Dultmiers website is hard to navigate details, maybe I can track it down in their catalog.
> 
> One question I have been trying to figure out...why all the valves and such? Won't the electric pumps work like a valve? Meaning if you turn off the pump won't it not come out much anymore giving you enough time to walk to the back and manually shut the valve when the job is completed?


When I set up a sprayer with any electric pump you DO NOT need any shut off valves for the booms to stop the flow. That is wasting $150-200 dollars. Use a siphon tube out the top of the tank rather than hooking your pump(s) up to the bottom of the tank. Problem solved. 
1 main tank shut off valve is all that is needed, and it's a manual $25.00


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## Kubota 8540

DodgeBlizzard;1349741 said:


> I want to get into liquid spraying but nobody does it around here. I want to make my own brine and start spraying. You guys are a great source of information. Ever consider a step by step for us guys that haven't been down this road before? I want to set up an electric truck bed sprayer and a sidewalk sprayer so bad. Funds are tight right now due to other recent purchases. You guys ever consider setting up a how to formula for us semi handy guys wanting to build our own, yet lack the knowlege or experience you guys have in this department? Example: I ventured into another business this year that nobody around here does. I like doing things other people aren't into which gives me a niche. I purchased all the materials through their company and then built it, put the pieces together and laid it out on my own. The material came with specific instructions on where to drill this hole in this tank, what fittings to use where, etc. Even if you guys don't sell the parts, give us links or websites with specifics. Your knowlege and time spent on these manuals would be worth value to guys like me. If I'm willing to purchase all of the materials (with help from you), fab it up myself, would you be willing to do a step by step / how to format?


As long as your not in a hurry or have a set timetable. Evenings and weekends other than when snowing I would be willing to help you set up what you want to build. Other than THIS evening, tonight I have to have a Brinemaker built for tomorrow.


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## terrapro

Kubota 8540;1349788 said:


> When I set up a sprayer with any electric pump you DO NOT need any shut off valves for the booms to stop the flow. That is wasting $150-200 dollars. Use a siphon tube out the top of the tank rather than hooking your pump(s) up to the bottom of the tank. Problem solved.
> 1 main tank shut off valve is all that is needed, and it's a manual $25.00


Thank you Kubota for your response! I know you said you are busy tonight but whenever you have some time if you could let me know how you setup with electric pumps please let me know.

Also what pumps do you recommend? Two Flojet 4.5gpm out of Dultmeier are only around $100 per.


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## Plow man Foster

Oh okay i see.... I've never thought about taking it from the top like that... Im gonna have to try that! 
If i ever decide to go back to an electric system. We have al gas units now. 

Terrapro what kind of setup are you looking at building?? Truck setup? Full boom? 
I know a guy in South lyon who builds sprayers... Might be near or far from you... not sure.
Let me know if you want his name and number..


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## firelwn82

Kubota. What kind of hose would you use for the pick up tube? If i'm rnning three pumps should I run three seperate hose's? I never even thought about the whole gravity hing lol. I was going to put a ball valve at the bottom outlet and hook the electric pumps to that. Then I looked into diapram spray bodies. For the tips screen and bodies it was going to be 130 bucks... Hose is way cheaper...


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## DodgeBlizzard

Kubota 8540;1349791 said:


> As long as your not in a hurry or have a set timetable. Evenings and weekends other than when snowing I would be willing to help you set up what you want to build. Other than THIS evening, tonight I have to have a Brinemaker built for tomorrow.


ok whenever you're ready I'm game.


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## terrapro

firelwn82;1349976 said:


> Kubota. What kind of hose would you use for the pick up tube? If i'm rnning three pumps should I run three seperate hose's? I never even thought about the whole gravity hing lol. I was going to put a ball valve at the bottom outlet and hook the electric pumps to that. Then I looked into diapram spray bodies. For the tips screen and bodies it was going to be 130 bucks... Hose is way cheaper...


I was just talking to "Brian Young" on here about his gravity setup...

Basically 2" tubing from tank with a manual shutoff valve to a 1 1/2" pvc boom with 3/16" holes drilled every 4".

He has an electric valve for convience but other than that it can be very basic.


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## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1350101 said:


> I was just talking to "Brian Young" on here about his gravity setup...
> 
> Basically 2" tubing from tank with a manual shutoff valve to a 1 1/2" pvc boom with 3/16" holes drilled every 4".
> 
> He has an electric valve for convience but other than that it can be very basic.


How much you want to spend or what you need to do will dictate what kind of sprayer you should build.

I think ideally pumping, circulating and spraying you should use a 40 gpm capacity pump with about 60 max psi.

If you just need to spread some inexpensive salt brine or blend around then a gravity system would work. The problem with a gravity system is you have a variable pressure. Higher pressure when you start than when your near the end of the tank. Its hard to get a consistent gallons per acre. You should be able to get close but not exact. Nice thing about a gravity system they are very inexpensive to build. ( I personally wouldn't use one to spread something that was costing me $0.75 per gallon )

Electric system: Quiet, no gas refilling. Hook up electric and switch and hoses. Don't need boom valves, solenoid valves or regulator valves. You can regulate the gpa by pump psi and sprayer tips. Downside of electric: Doesn't spray fast enough for high demand commercial work. Can get far more expensive with less parts than a gas system. 1 gas powered pump usually = (40) 5 gpm electrics tied together? 1 gas powered pump = less than $300

Gas powered pumps: Can be a little noisy, have to carry a gas can or refill every few hours, if they are stored outside they might be hard to start when needed. Advantages: Fairly inexpensive for their capabilities and capacities. $300. No matter how much you need to spray you have the capacity to do so. Because the run at a constant pressure and speed you can get very consistent gpa's. Pump can be used in the off season for other chores or types of spraying. Dust control? Weed spraying? Transporting liquids from place to place?


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## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1349976 said:


> Kubota. What kind of hose would you use for the pick up tube? If i'm rnning three pumps should I run three seperate hose's? I never even thought about the whole gravity hing lol. I was going to put a ball valve at the bottom outlet and hook the electric pumps to that. Then I looked into diapram spray bodies. For the tips screen and bodies it was going to be 130 bucks... Hose is way cheaper...


I put a tank bulkhead fitting in the top of the tank. They have threads on the inside of the fitting. Use a pvc pipe, the size of your suction hose, with a male threaded adapter glued to the pvc pipe and screwed in to the bulkhead fitting on the inside of your tank, leave it up off the bottom about an inch. For boom nozzle bodies with 8-10 psi check valves they are about $4 ea. Tips/caps/gasket $7.....spaced 20" apart.....standard truck boom should have 5-6 bodies and tips.

Yes, 3 separate pick up tubes, 3 separate suction hoses. 1 to each pump inlet.


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## Kubota 8540

DodgeBlizzard;1350083 said:


> ok whenever you're ready I'm game.


If your serious you should start a new thread, that way it would be pictures and instructions. I could post links and info. You can post pics of what you are doing. Then maybe some else could use that info too?


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## firelwn82

Ok so here is the revised idea. I didnt change the inlet on the drawing but I will be using Kubota's idea of the bulk head and hose out of the top of the tank. I still don't know if I want to run 3 seperate inlets or one main and have them split off though.


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## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1350255 said:


> Yes, 3 separate pick up tubes, 3 separate suction hoses. 1 to each pump inlet.


I should really look back at this before I post my posts. This is the second time I missed something. Sorry for the redundant quetions


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## Kubota 8540

Most booms should be as close to 24" off the ground as possible. (spray tip related)

No boom valve or check valve needed.

http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.851.857.4063/7531 5 gpm roughly 80% efficient so only 3.8 gpm actual, these are what I have had good luck with.

1 pick up then tee'd off? Don't know if 1 pump could create enough suction for pick up of liquid.

Each pump wired to a 12 volt solenoid, fed by 1 main fused lead from battery, then daisey chain to each solenoid. Apply small current from remote device to solenoid to transfer large amperage current draw to pumps.


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## firelwn82

Ok so with 2 pumps I will only be putting out roughly 8gpm? So I can only travel roughly 6 miles per hour correct? I may have to run 3 pumps???


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## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1350313 said:


> Ok so with 2 pumps I will only be putting out roughly 8gpm? So I can only travel roughly 6 miles per hour correct? I may have to run 3 pumps???


Correct.

Now you will have $375+ wrapped up in pumps. Compare to 1 gas powered pump($300) that can spray 80' in a pass to 3 electrics that will be able to spray 10' per pass.

I could stretch that 80' to 88' .


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## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1350308 said:


> 1 pick up then tee'd off? Don't know if 1 pump could create enough suction for pick up of liquid..


No. 1 tube going into the tank or bulk head. Then on the outside of the tank all 3 pumps would splice into the one pick up tube. So you would have 2 pumps pulling for the spray bar and one pump pulling for the spray wand. But I think your 3 bulk head idea will wok better. For each pump I will just have to keep the pipe no bigger than the pump to get maximum suction correct?


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## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1350318 said:


> Correct.
> 
> Now you will have $375+ wrapped up in pumps. Compare to 1 gas powered pump($300) that can spray 80' in a pass to 3 electrics that will be able to spray 10' per pass.
> 
> I could stretch that 80' to 88' .


Yes but then I'm back to the whole noise thing. UGH.... I'm making it to damn complicated I think..... lol


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## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1350320 said:


> Yes but then I'm back to the whole noise thing. UGH.... I'm making it to damn complicated I think..... lol


No not too complicated. Electric systems are the easiest to set up and use. Electric pumps just don't do what we really need to do for spraying liquid salt. As soon as someone manufactures a 30-40 gallon per minute electric 12 volt motor/pump it will be perfect. Until then, multiple pumps. I set one up a few weeks back that had 3 Delavan Fat Boy 7 gpm pumps. That would spray 16.8 gpm. Although I did have $800 in the pumps.

Perhaps cheaper to build or find a super silencer muffler?


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## firelwn82

Well I'm going o pick up the tanks tomorrow. Yes I said tanks. I'm going to be making my own brine as well. Thats the easy part. Going to use a 325 gallon tote to mix in and a 275 gallon tank to transfer into. The reason for the biiger tank is because the over flow is usualy 50-75 gallons lower anyways and I wont hav to lift the tank off of the ground. Just set them together and go to town. I found them super cheap so I'm getting and extra incase I screw something up. IfI don't I will sell it off for a major profit.


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## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1350339 said:


> Well I'm going o pick up the tanks tomorrow. Yes I said tanks. I'm going to be making my own brine as well. Thats the easy part. Going to use a 325 gallon tote to mix in and a 275 gallon tank to transfer into. The reason for the biiger tank is because the over flow is usualy 50-75 gallons lower anyways and I wont hav to lift the tank off of the ground. Just set them together and go to town. I found them super cheap so I'm getting and extra incase I screw something up. IfI don't I will sell it off for a major profit.


Didn't think about 2 different size totes together, going to be playing with that tomorrow too I guess. Just picked up 6 totes today.


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## Tbrothers

I'm trying to set something up. I found some one who has a electric pump set up that he's asking $500 for the pump and the spray boom and a pressure gauge. after reading all the thread here sounds like gas is the way to go. the pump is a shurflo 4111 about 6.25 gpm is that enough gals a minute? would I be better off buying a gas unit and going from there. Not looking at doing a lot this year but would like to i the future.


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## Kubota 8540

Tbrothers;1350858 said:


> I'm trying to set something up. I found some one who has a electric pump set up that he's asking $500 for the pump and the spray boom and a pressure gauge. after reading all the thread here sounds like gas is the way to go. the pump is a shurflo 4111 about 6.25 gpm is that enough gals a minute? would I be better off buying a gas unit and going from there. Not looking at doing a lot this year but would like to i the future.


My personal preference is a gas powered, but I did start off with a 5 gpm electric. Figured out quickly I would need at least 3 pumps.

That pump new is about $240. Electric pumps are generally 80% efficient, so 6.25 x .80 = 5 gpm

A small 1.5" gas powered can be had for less than $250 and a complete boom for about the same. All parts that is. Not put together.


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## Plow man Foster

One advantage of using a gas unit like mine is, We can flip 2 levers,connect one hose and quickly RELOAD our tank on the truck...From just about any tank


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## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1350941 said:


> One advantage of using a gas unit like mine is, We can flip 2 levers,connect one hose and quickly RELOAD our tank on the truck...From just about any tank


When I owned a sprayer mine would too. Now I have to figure out what I am going to build to replace it.

Sprayers and Brine Makers seem to be a hot selling item that past few weeks, I even sold MY sprayer and MY Brine Maker.


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## Tbrothers

i picked it up this evening but didn't have to pay for it. think I'll visit the local farm store and see what they got for spray epuipment. you guys have some real good ideas on here.not looking at any thing to crazy this first year but would like it to work like it should.


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## DodgeBlizzard

Kubota 8540;1350290 said:


> If your serious you should start a new thread, that way it would be pictures and instructions. I could post links and info. You can post pics of what you are doing. Then maybe some else could use that info too?


Headed to Michigan this weekend but when I come back I will start a new thread. I just got a line on (4) 275 gallon tanks. I also have a 1300 gallon storage tank. I'm not sure which way I want to go, gas or electric. I like the idea of electric because I didn't have good luck with my last v box gas powered unit salter. But I do already have some new air operated equipment set up for roof cleaning. I have a 5.5 hp wheelbarrow style air compressor that goes in tandem with an air operated diaphram pump. And if it holds up to the roof cleaning chemicals, it should hold up to liquid salt brine. And with the salt/sidewalk crew I've got, they would probably say just throw the hose in the tote, start the compressor and we'll just hold the hose, drive around the lot and blast the lot like a bunch of firemen. wesport They're a different group, but they don't complain and they get the job done that nobody else wants to do. They need lots of babysitting, but that's par for the course.


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## Kubota 8540

Does anyone know where I can buy just the liquid tanks for a small v box?


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## IDOCTORTREES

A pic of some of our spray trucks


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## Kubota 8540

What are you spraying?


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## IDOCTORTREES

mag chloride


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## Kubota 8540

NICE looking outfits


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## DodgeBlizzard

http://www.forceamerica.com/productlines.asp?pageid=50


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## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1350343 said:


> Didn't think about 2 different size totes together, going to be playing with that tomorrow too I guess. Just picked up 6 totes today.


I picked up the totes on Friday. 25 bucks a piece cant go wrong there at all. 1-330 and 3-275 gallon tanks. I have to get a couple of more parts for the spray hose. I ended up makng it 90" wide with 6 spray tips at 18" each. was going to just go with 80" and use 5 tips but at TSC the bodies come in packages of 2. So I made it 90" to use all of the bodies. They don't sell the Tee jet tips though so now I have to order those online.


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## Tbrothers

what tip works best a fan or a straight sream. I tried spraying the other night and didn't get the results I thought I would. Was using heatwave but the tips where a fan spray. not sure the one electric pump is enough. Does liquid only work as a pretreat? I sprayed after we plowed the lots but we had freezing rain then snow so there was alot of ice. Ended up going back to put down salt after.


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## CGM Inc.

subscribing, nice work!


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## Kubota 8540

Tbrothers;1352325 said:


> what tip works best a fan or a straight sream. I tried spraying the other night and didn't get the results I thought I would. Was using heatwave but the tips where a fan spray. not sure the one electric pump is enough. Does liquid only work as a pretreat? I sprayed after we plowed the lots but we had freezing rain then snow so there was alot of ice. Ended up going back to put down salt after.


I've been told if you get to spray the lot before freezing rain, it helps. I think, maybe, before a freezing drizzle, but not a freezing rain. 1 electric pump is more than likely not enough. I don't hardly ever use fan spray nozzles on anything anymore, only stream type fertilizer nozzles of varying sizes.

I use a 90/10 mix of salt brine and calcium chloride as anti-icing, de-icing and definitely after plowing just to clean up the lot.

Freezing rain? Rock salt, rock salt and sand mix, or rock salt and chips mix. IMO


----------



## Kubota 8540

Went shopping at my favorite store in Iowa today.


----------



## Plow man Foster

Kubota 8540;1355530 said:


> View attachment 103480
> 
> 
> Went shopping at my favorite store in Iowa today.


Niceeeee! how do you like those briggs pumps/ motors??


----------



## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1355545 said:


> Niceeeee! how do you like those briggs pumps/ motors??


I'm strictly Briggs engine and either banjo or pacer pumps. NO honda's here, except my generator.

I like the briggs design and the float feed carb, absolutely no problems. Start excellent cold or warm.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Was comparing sprayer poly fittings and noticed the difference between Greenleaf fittings and Banjo fittings. What a difference! GreenLeaf is made in China, Banjo appears to be made in Indiana? If this is the case, the only fittings I will purchase from GreenLeaf will be their female quick connect. I like the lever locks they have. But the difference in quality is visually noticeable, and Banjo is of higher quality.


----------



## doo-man

So I have been following this thread form the back seat so to say !!

I want to jump in and make one but not sure if what I want to do will work, only way is to ask or trial and error I would like to ask before the trial !!

I have a 275 tote, want to get an 6.5gpm 60psi max electric pump, and run a homemade manifold after the pump to 2 electric solenoids one going to the boom and other to a hose for sidewalks, not using both at same time.

Question is am I going to get enough GPM and pressure to make this work ??

How many heads can I run on spray bar?

How slow will I have to drive to get good coverage??

I am open to suggestions and criticizing its the only way to learn !!

I will have less than $200 into the whole set-up this way as I have most all items already.

Thanks


----------



## Kubota 8540

doo-man;1358350 said:


> So I have been following this thread form the back seat so to say !!
> 
> I want to jump in and make one but not sure if what I want to do will work, only way is to ask or trial and error I would like to ask before the trial !!
> 
> I have a 275 tote, want to get an 6.5gpm 60psi max electric pump, and run a homemade manifold after the pump to 2 electric solenoids one going to the boom and other to a hose for sidewalks, not using both at same time.
> 
> Question is am I going to get enough GPM and pressure to make this work ??
> 
> How many heads can I run on spray bar?
> 
> How slow will I have to drive to get good coverage?
> 
> I am open to suggestions and criticizing its the only way to learn !!
> 
> I will have less than $200 into the whole set-up this way as I have most all items already.
> 
> Thanks[/QUOTE
> 
> First 6.5 x 80% efficient = 5.2 gallons per minute.
> 
> Really don't need solenoid valves, just a 3 way manual valve.
> 
> The best speed for 60 gpa about 4-5 mph using SJ3 15 vp triple stream nozzles, running 4 nozzles on an 80" boom


----------



## doo-man

So this is feasable? I want to use the electric valves to turn the boom on from the cab, I will have it wired to turn the pump and specific valve on when I want that specific feature, no need to get out of truck to turn valve for boom!

I am not sure if a hd garden hose will work for sidewalks but thats my thoughts ???

I have a ton of electric 12volt valves so not purchasing !!!


----------



## doo-man

Well after looking back thru everyone's posts I decided to try n find a gas 1.5"pump.

I found a Gentron Pro2 - 1500 1.5" Water Pump that will do 92.5 Gallon per minute with a 35 PSI Pressure (max): 

Will this work ?? If not please point me in the correct direction.

Thanks


----------



## firelwn82

Yes that ill work. The reason I want to go with electric is because it's quite and I don't need to keep fuel with me. But yes that pump will work. You want volume or gpm's and not so much pressure. If you could find something with 45psi you would be golden but 35 will work. Also you may want to go a little bigger so you don't have to run at full throttle all the time also which will make the pump not work as hard and it wont be as loud either.


----------



## doo-man

ok, I found upon further searching a Pacer® "EconoAg" Series Transfer Pump, 2 in. with Flow Rating: 150 GPM Maximum and Pressure Rating: 43 PSI Maximum with a 4 HP Briggs & Stratton for $280.00

Better ???


----------



## Kubota 8540

doo-man;1358565 said:


> ok, I found upon further searching a Pacer® "EconoAg" Series Transfer Pump, 2 in. with Flow Rating: 150 GPM Maximum and Pressure Rating: 43 PSI Maximum with a 4 HP Briggs & Stratton for $280.00
> 
> Better ???


Much better! That will handle anything you want to do and any number of tips and size boom. Just looked at that pump yesterday for $219 at a Big R farm store.


----------



## SullivanSeptic

Sorry to jump in here, but I have been researching this topic and I have a question. All the set ups I have seeen have been electric. I think I want to go gas because in order to get the right gpm and psi with electric, I have to go with really expensive pumps or multiple ones. So my question about gas is, when the gas pump is running and the spray heads are off, how does this not hurt the pump? Isn't it "dead headed" against the shut off valves? Wont this hurt the pump or is there something that releases pressure whle it runs?


----------



## Kubota 8540

SullivanSeptic;1358793 said:


> Sorry to jump in here, but I have been researching this topic and I have a question. All the set ups I have seeen have been electric. I think I want to go gas because in order to get the right gpm and psi with electric, I have to go with really expensive pumps or multiple ones. So my question about gas is, when the gas pump is running and the spray heads are off, how does this not hurt the pump? Isn't it "dead headed" against the shut off valves? Wont this hurt the pump or is there something that releases pressure whle it runs?


The electric boom valve that is used is called a 3 way valve, which is never shut off. It simply redirects the flow. When the toggle switch is in a supposed off position it directs the flow to a return hose back to the tank. When the switch is in the on position it directs the flow to the boom. Some have a regulating valve ( which slowly opens and closes allowing you to stop or slow the flow back to the tank) which will allows a varying amount to the boom and also some back to the tank.

High pressure systems have throttling valves or pressure relief valves.

In theory I would like an electric setup, simply off/on. Unfortunately they don't have the size and volume necessary for a 1 pump system yet.


----------



## SullivanSeptic

Great, Thanks. Also, am I right in saying the electric pumps can get expensive? I would like a set up with an 8ft path behind truck, then be able to drop a boom on each side to cover a larger area on my big lots. With this set up and electric pumps, it would be getting pricey? A gas pump and extra valve would be cheaper?


----------



## Kubota 8540

SullivanSeptic;1358821 said:


> Great, Thanks. Also, am I right in saying the electric pumps can get expensive? I would like a set up with an 8ft path behind truck, then be able to drop a boom on each side to cover a larger area on my big lots. With this set up and electric pumps, it would be getting pricey? A gas pump and extra valve would be cheaper?


Electric gets very pricey when compared to gas powered, and can not come close to the capabilities of gas powered. A while back I built an electric 3 pump 3 zone system for a contractor in Elmhurst. But he still has to spray at slow speeds to get a decent gpa. That system when spraying will draw 51 amps. 3 electric pumps and solenoids about $850.( would spray about 16' @ 5mph)

1 gas powered under $300 + valve $175 - $500. Price varies for 1 lane to 3 lane.

When I build a spray bar its about 100". But will spray 9.5-11.5 feet with stream nozzles. I can get about 17' with a 100" bar with some little tricks. 100" is just slightly wider than mirror tip to mirror tip on a std pickup truck, but I like looking in my mirror and being able to see the tip of my boom so I know where its at all the time.

Instead of dropping a boom add some boomless or boom extender nozzles to the tips off your boom.


----------



## SullivanSeptic

Thanks. Btw, the guy u built the electric set up for. I think that may be the unit I saw last week. Was his name Steve?


----------



## SullivanSeptic

Also, my concern is with my larger lots. If I am only covering the width of a truck, I will be onsite for way too long. I don't want side booms, but I am trying to speed up application time on large lots


----------



## Kubota 8540

SullivanSeptic;1358871 said:


> Thanks. Btw, the guy u built the electric set up for. I think that may be the unit I saw last week. Was his name Steve?


On a white 450? Then probably yes. AKA The Snowman? Steve V?


----------



## Plow man Foster

SullivanSeptic;1358873 said:


> Also, my concern is with my larger lots. If I am only covering the width of a truck, I will be onsite for way too long. I don't want side booms, but I am trying to speed up application time on large lots


Why not build something like the Turbo turf sprayer with side tips. On separate valves. 
If i understand correctly you dont want any booms extending past the truck correct?
Only problem is, i have never seen a setup like this done w/ an electric pump


----------



## Kubota 8540

SullivanSeptic;1358873 said:


> Also, my concern is with my larger lots. If I am only covering the width of a truck, I will be onsite for way too long. I don't want side booms, but I am trying to speed up application time on large lots


I have used boomless nozzles that will spray from 10' wide to a really cool pair that did 80' wide, but still had the 100" main boom, and nothing hanging wider than the truck. I setup a sprayer for 1 guy in Connecticut that had the std 100" boom with a manual valve that went to boomless and sprayed 40' in a pass. That can be done also with an electric valve but he wante to save the xtra $.


----------



## SullivanSeptic

Yeah. Went to school with Steves son. I've known him a long time. I used to plow for him when I was in college


----------



## Kubota 8540

If its the same Steve, nice guy, funny. We operate under the same basic theory of not getting out of the cab MUCH. :laughing: He brought me a tank and asked me to build a sprayer to it. I had planned on a gas powered but I mentioned electric, and he went dead set on electric even though I explained that it would be a slower spraying speed.

Also built him a small brine maker. I cut and dry fit all the plumbing then disassemble to glue all the fittings, in his case it was almost all the fittings. He took a salt water bath I guess. :laughing:


----------



## SullivanSeptic

Yeah. I just went through his stuff. Looks real good. Clean set up too. I think I am going to make a set up for my flatbed to try out this year. I also want to have a hose real for sidewalks. So you think I can get a set up going with gas pump for $800?


----------



## Kubota 8540

SullivanSeptic;1358901 said:


> Yeah. I just went through his stuff. Looks real good. Clean set up too. I think I am going to make a set up for my flatbed to try out this year. I also want to have a hose real for sidewalks. So you think I can get a set up going with gas pump for $800?


A gas powered pump and valve for 1 lane, boom, tips, etc, parts only maybe $1,500-$1,700. Most sprayers I setup are built on a simple treated skid. Cheap to setup, cheap to replace when necessary. Sprayer parts, NOT cheap. I posted a pic earlier when I recently went parts shopping. About $3K of parts on that little 4' x 6' table in my shop.

Post # 74


----------



## SullivanSeptic

Well, I guess I have to get a list of what I need. I have access to pretty much any valves being that I work wit them everyday. Its just figuring out which ones work for this application. I might try to get a hold of you to pick your brain a bit. I will do some more research on Steve's stuff and get back wit you. Thanks for the info


----------



## Kubota 8540

SullivanSeptic;1358927 said:


> Well, I guess I have to get a list of what I need. I have access to pretty much any valves being that I work wit them everyday. Its just figuring out which ones work for this application. I might try to get a hold of you to pick your brain a bit. I will do some more research on Steve's stuff and get back wit you. Thanks for the info


Sure , glad to help you out. I think Steve said he also had a Snowex sprayer? Good looking unit, has 3 electric 7 gpm pumps also.

Valves as long as they are poly. Brass has a short life with these liquids. PM me if you need a phone # or email.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Well off to the shop. Have to clean or replace some battery cable ends on a van, finish another small brine maker and clean up all my messes to be ready to put a heater in a S185 tomorrow.


----------



## deicepro

Kubota 8540;1351055 said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy just the liquid tanks for a small v box?


Good luck..
I have a friend that has the molds for these tanks, he said that his company is legally only allowed to make them for another certain company....
Each tank costs less than $100 to make!!!
I've had him do some custom tanks for me but he wont make me those saddle tanks:realmad:


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Kubota, have you ever had anyone ask you, or have you considered, using something like the back of an Ebling back blade as a boom and doing a 3 zone spray system? Have the center section and then each wing be a section?

I've been thinking about this and it's the only way I can come up with to be able to have an Ebling on my truck and still be able to do the deice services I need to take care of. I'm already planning for at the earliest next winter.


----------



## Plow man Foster

John_DeereGreen;1359126 said:


> Kubota, have you ever had anyone ask you, or have you considered, using something like the back of an Ebling back blade as a boom and doing a 3 zone spray system? Have the center section and then each wing be a section?
> 
> I've been thinking about this and it's the only way I can come up with to be able to have an Ebling on my truck and still be able to do the deice services I need to take care of. I'm already planning for at the earliest next winter.


I've been asked to, In theory it seems nice but when you drop the blade in snow it moves everything around AND it covers everything with snow. Then the guy who i was going to build the sprayer for also used his ebling to push piles back so it really wouldnt work. 
We ended up making him a boomless sprayer with a quick connect hose.

So every thing is mounted to a reese trailer receive all he has to do is slide it in and connect the hose! 2 nozzels that spray a fan pattern 6' Across each. More or less...


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Plow man Foster;1359153 said:


> I've been asked to, In theory it seems nice but when you drop the blade in snow it moves everything around AND it covers everything with snow. Then the guy who i was going to build the sprayer for also used his ebling to push piles back so it really wouldnt work.
> We ended up making him a boomless sprayer with a quick connect hose.
> 
> So every thing is mounted to a reese trailer receive all he has to do is slide it in and connect the hose! 2 nozzels that spray a fan pattern 6' Across each. More or less...


I just can't come up with a way that will work using an Ebling and still being able to spread de-icer. I don't want to have another truck to do deice services, but it's starting to look like that's what's going to have to be done if I decide to have an Ebling.


----------



## Plow man Foster

John_DeereGreen;1359193 said:


> I just can't come up with a way that will work using an Ebling and still being able to spread de-icer. I don't want to have another truck to do deice services, but it's starting to look like that's what's going to have to be done if I decide to have an Ebling.


No need for a second truck! I've built one and know it works! 
After you build What i call the "heart" of the sprayer (Tank, Pump,etc) 
Now the fun begins... You have to weld a Receiver onto your Ebling in the center 
One of these: 







'

Then Add a Quick connect to your hose Coming from your pump. 
Then Add 2 tips/ nozzels that spray in either direction and Mount them to one of these.










Then you can connect and disconnect QUICKLY! Just pull the pin on the hitch and disconnect the hose.

On the one i built we had to extend receiver a couple inches just so the liquid wouldnt be spraying directly on the hoses and cylinders!

Sounds hard I (out of all people) Finished this type of sprayer in 3 days Working after work Little by little.


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

Lawn spray truck..









Tree spray truck


----------



## Kubota 8540

IDOCTORTREES

OK .... de-icing spray truckssss...... lawn spray trucks...... tree spray trucks....... but do you have a pressure washing spray truck? :laughing:


Nice looking trucks


----------



## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1359415 said:


> No need for a second truck! I've built one and know it works!
> After you build What i call the "heart" of the sprayer (Tank, Pump,etc)
> Now the fun begins... You have to weld a Receiver onto your Ebling in the center
> One of these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> '
> 
> Then Add a Quick connect to your hose Coming from your pump.
> Then Add 2 tips/ nozzels that spray in either direction and Mount them to one of these.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you can connect and disconnect QUICKLY! Just pull the pin on the hitch and disconnect the hose.
> 
> On the one i built we had to extend receiver a couple inches just so the liquid wouldnt be spraying directly on the hoses and cylinders!
> 
> Sounds hard I (out of all people) Finished this type of sprayer in 3 days Working after work Little by little.


Sure could put a nice boomless nozzle easily on that.10-80 feet if you have enough pump.


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

Kubota 8540;1359497 said:


> IDOCTORTREES
> 
> OK .... de-icing spray truckssss...... lawn spray trucks...... tree spray trucks....... but do you have a pressure washing spray truck? :laughing:
> 
> Nice looking trucks


Yes I do ::laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

IDOCTORTREES;1359525 said:


> Yes I do ::laughing:


:laughing:


----------



## IDOCTORTREES

The thread said (ANYTHING)


----------



## Kubota 8540

IDOCTORTREES;1359537 said:


> The thread said (ANYTHING)


Absolutely, they are all sprayers. Not too much about sprayers that are inexpensive. The fiberglass tank is real nice. Like the way all the trucks are painted, clean and match.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Seeing how I sold MY sprayer, I think I should at least figure out what I'm going to build to replace it. I'm thinking I liked the low profile tank, 200 gallon. Gas powered 2" poly pump, 3 zone electric manifold, not sure about the regulating valve ( manual or electric ) electric adds $200-300, manual is $40. The standard 100" boom but with 20 tips and 10 of those with block off caps. Then mount the boom xtender nozzles on the boom ends for another 10 feet each side of the truck? That would give me left 10', center 10', and right 10'. That way I could drive in the normal lane but have the option to spray the oncoming lane at the same time if I wanted too?


----------



## AndersonCS

John_DeereGreen;1359126 said:


> Kubota, have you ever had anyone ask you, or have you considered, using something like the back of an Ebling back blade as a boom and doing a 3 zone spray system? Have the center section and then each wing be a section?
> 
> I've been thinking about this and it's the only way I can come up with to be able to have an Ebling on my truck and still be able to do the deice services I need to take care of. I'm already planning for at the earliest next winter.


I'm building one right now, it's crunch time so I'll be a little bit before I have the total system built. All I have had time for is the main Ebling section.


----------



## Plow man Foster

Kubota 8540;1359730 said:


> Seeing how I sold MY sprayer, I think I should at least figure out what I'm going to build to replace it. I'm thinking I liked the low profile tank, 200 gallon. Gas powered 2" poly pump, 3 zone electric manifold, not sure about the regulating valve ( manual or electric ) electric adds $200-300, manual is $40. The standard 100" boom but with 20 tips and 10 of those with block off caps. Then mount the boom xtender nozzles on the boom ends for another 10 feet each side of the truck? That would give me left 10', center 10', and right 10'. That way I could drive in the normal lane but have the option to spray the oncoming lane at the same time if I wanted too?


HOLY SH!T That sounds sweet! 
My buddy is thinking of building something like that. Dont forget to post pics if you decide to build that one!


----------



## terrapro

Alright I give up, I have a 5hp briggs with 2inch pacer pump that I use for my spray tank. I think you guys convinced me to just use it insted of doing gravity or electric. 

What would be a good electric valve? I don't really need anything fancy right now so a three way is not needed but maybe in the future. I was looking through dultmeir and just don't know what to do. A 10' pass would be nice for my properties but 8' would do. So which SJ3's are recommended at what gal per min and what boom dia?


----------



## Plow man Foster

terrapro;1360534 said:


> Alright I give up, I have a 5hp briggs with 2inch pacer pump that I use for my spray tank. I think you guys convinced me to just use it insted of doing gravity or electric.
> 
> What would be a good electric valve? I don't really need anything fancy right now so a three way is not needed but maybe in the future. I was looking through dultmeir and just don't
> know what to do. A 10' pass would be nice for my properties but 8' would do. So which SJ3's are recommended at what gal per min and what boom dia?


I use baja valves....top of the line. But really any 12v one will work.. 
No bigger than 1" dia for the boom. You have plenty of pump but the key is to keep it on or just above idle so its quieter. Not sure what boom size would go with those exact tips. But one thing to keep in mind until jim adds in,is the smaller the dia the more pressure you will have. 
I do alot of boomless setups at 20-50gpm

Sent from my ipad


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1360534 said:


> Alright I give up, I have a 5hp briggs with 2inch pacer pump that I use for my spray tank. I think you guys convinced me to just use it insted of doing gravity or electric.
> 
> What would be a good electric valve? I don't really need anything fancy right now so a three way is not needed but maybe in the future. I was looking through dultmeir and just don't know what to do. A 10' pass would be nice for my properties but 8' would do. So which SJ3's are recommended at what gal per min and what boom dia?


TeeJet SS344BEC-34C about $175 http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.689.2501.3092 You have to have a 3 way if you don't set it up like a manifold with a regulator valve. The $175 approach is easier and quicker .

Boom nozzle body SSQJ17560-1 http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.812.2178.4037
nozzle spray tip SJ3 Blacks http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.823.4458 http://www.dultmeier.com/prod-info.asp?info=ssMM-SJ3015VP-Nozzle-Chart.jpg 6-8 mph 20" centers 65-87 gpa

With these tips your 8' bar will cover 10'


----------



## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1360608 said:


> I use baja valves....top of the line. But really any 12v one will work..
> No bigger than 1" dia for the boom. You have plenty of pump but the key is to keep it on or just above idle so its quieter. Not sure what boom size would go with those exact tips. But one thing to keep in mind until jim adds in,is the smaller the dia the more pressure you will have.
> I do alot of boomless setups at 20-50gpm
> 
> Sent from my ipad


Don't need much psi for spraying liquid de-icing/anti-icing.10-30psi is plenty. Lot of nice boomless nozzles out there that would work fine. Boomless or boom operators choice.


----------



## deicepro

Plow man Foster;1360608 said:


> I use baja valves....top of the line. But really any 12v one will work.. No bigger than 1" dia for the boom. You have plenty of pump but the key is to keep it on or just above idle so its quieter. Not sure what boom size would go with those exact tips. But one thing to keep in mind until jim adds in,is the smaller the dia the more pressure you will have.
> I do alot of boomless setups at 20-50gpm
> 
> Sent from my ipad


SO...your saying a 12v irrigation valve will work?


----------



## firelwn82

I'm thinking that I'm going to go with this valve from TSC. http://www.tractorsupply.com/countyline-reg-solenoid-shut-off-valve-single-2113176 Probably 2 of them. one for the spray bar and one for the wand. Although I don't think I will need one for the want because it will have a trigger type handle on it. What do you think Jim?


----------



## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1360962 said:


> I'm thinking that I'm going to go with this valve from TSC. http://www.tractorsupply.com/countyline-reg-solenoid-shut-off-valve-single-2113176 Probably 2 of them. one for the spray bar and one for the wand. Although I don't think I will need one for the want because it will have a trigger type handle on it. What do you think Jim?


Brand: CountyLine®
Type: 12 V DC Electric Shut Off Valve
Capacity: 10 GPM
Material: 430 SS & glass-filled Nylon
Coupler Type: 3/4 in. NPT Female inlet and Male bypass outlet
Pressure Rating: 100 PSI

Looks like it should work, I would check the humidity and temp ratings of the valve. Looks like a poppet valve and some don't like cold weather.


----------



## firelwn82

ah crap.... Where would I find that information?


----------



## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1360975 said:


> ah crap.... Where would I find that information?


On the box the valve comes in. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

Had a nice lttle 22 gpm fill station for loading the brine mix into the sprayer. All I had to do is slide the door open ,drop the hose in the sprayer tank and flip the electric switch on,.......sold it too :laughing:

Figured what H____, don't have a sprayer :laughing:


----------



## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1360978 said:


> On the box the valve comes in. :laughing:


Hmmmmm..... I think its bed ime for this guy... lol... I will stop in at TSC tomorrow and check into this. What temp would be a good range? -15 or so?


----------



## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1360983 said:


> Figured what H____, don't have a sprayer :laughing:


Yeah but nowyour on to bigger better badder things... Thumbs Up


----------



## Kubota 8540

0 degree +?


----------



## firelwn82

alrighty then...


----------



## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1360986 said:


> Yeah but nowyour on to bigger better badder things... Thumbs Up


That's what I was thinking


----------



## firelwn82

How many tips are on the spray bar in your avatar? Looks like it would put a hurting on some heat on some pavement for sure... My spray bar is 95" long and it has six tips. Going to use 6 Tee Jet SJ3-15-VP 18" spacing. That should throw some liquid ay.


----------



## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1361001 said:


> How many tips are on the spray bar in your avatar? Looks like it would put a hurting on some heat on some pavement for sure... My spray bar is 95" long and it has six tips. Going to use 6 Tee Jet SJ3-15-VP 18" spacing. That should throw some liquid ay.


That is a 100" and has 20 tips about 5" apart. Serious volume and speed. I used that one for dust control. Its a little too serious for deicing. About 32-34 gpm


----------



## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1361002 said:


> That is a 100" and has 20 tips about 5" apart. Serious volume and speed. I used that one for dust control. Its a little too serious for deicing. About 32-34 gpm


Awesome... I think I may get into spraying private roads and driveways this summer myself. Is the solution the same amount or no?


----------



## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1361006 said:


> Awesome... I think I may get into spraying private roads and driveways this summer myself. Is the solution the same amount or no?


It's a higher % 42 I think and more liquid per sq ft. Although I used 32% but it didn't last as long, had to spray more often.


----------



## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1361010 said:


> It's a higher % 42 I think and more liquid per sq ft. Although I used 32% but it didn't last as long, had to spray more often.


I see. Totally different animal then. Money maker though. payup


----------



## AndersonCS

*New Pull plow and Sprayer*

Here's the link to my sprayer build thread.

LINK


----------



## Kubota 8540

AndersonCS;1361070 said:


> Here's the link to my sprayer build thread.
> 
> LINK


This build might interest a lot of contractors. Great start.


----------



## deicepro

Kubota 8540;1361010 said:


> It's a higher % 42 I think and more liquid per sq ft. Although I used 32% but it didn't last as long, had to spray more often.


38% is the norm for gravel roads, or at least that's what most townships spec in the bid sheet...


----------



## DodgeBlizzard

Kubota 8540;1347198 said:


> Here's a boom valve I use often......... http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.689.1019.2207.3905 and the price is good.


404 File Not Found
Sorry, you've requested a page which has moved or is no longer in use. That's what comes up with that link.


----------



## terrapro

Kubota 8540;1360816 said:


> TeeJet SS344BEC-34C about $175 http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.689.2501.3092 You have to have a 3 way if you don't set it up like a manifold with a regulator valve. The $175 approach is easier and quicker .
> 
> Boom nozzle body SSQJ17560-1 http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.812.2178.4037
> nozzle spray tip SJ3 Blacks http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.823.4458 http://www.dultmeier.com/prod-info.asp?info=ssMM-SJ3015VP-Nozzle-Chart.jpg 6-8 mph 20" centers 65-87 gpa
> 
> With these tips your 8' bar will cover 10'


Thanks for the reply Kubota!

I already have a manifold with a 2inch manual shutoff/regulator valve on one side of the T then an adapter going down to 3/4inch with another 3/4inch shutoff/regulator valve.

So all I should need is an electric shutoff valve and I think I might get a new 1inch adaptor so I can make sure I hit the GPM I want.


----------



## terrapro

Just picked up a 3 valve Teejet Directo Valve with electronic pressure regulator and strainer brand new for $50 so tell me what you think I should do with it? The plans already are to do one valve for an 8ft single stream boom then the other two for left and right boomjets for a 12ft pass each. My Briggs 5hp 2inch pump should be more than effecient.

Let me know what you think?


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1365595 said:


> Just picked up a 3 valve Teejet Directo Valve with electronic pressure regulator and strainer brand new for $50 so tell me what you think I should do with it? The plans already are to do one valve for an 8ft single stream boom then the other two for left and right boomjets for a 12ft pass each. My Briggs 5hp 2inch pump should be more than effecient.
> 
> Let me know what you think?


I think you should sell it to me for $60, and call it profit made. 

What size are the ports?


----------



## Kubota 8540

DodgeBlizzard;1363936 said:


> 404 File Not Found
> Sorry, you've requested a page which has moved or is no longer in use. That's what comes up with that link.


Just clicked the link it works fine for me?


----------



## terrapro

Kubota 8540;1366031 said:


> I think you should sell it to me for $60, and call it profit made.
> 
> What size are the ports?


Thats the only downside...they are 3/4 inlet and 1/2 outlet per. They are rated for 10gpm but even maxed out per valve that seems to low.


----------



## Brad3403

Great thread. Couple questions....

Can you get away without a brinemaker? If you filled up you're spray tank with water and the appropriate amount of salt and drove around for a short time would the salt not disolve forming the brine?

I've seen water trucks go through auctions really cheap. They may need a bit of work but then you have a huge tank, spray boom, etc.....thoughts???


----------



## deicepro

What is the tank made out of?
I've thought about that myself but there are very few trucks with poly tanks...
Do those trucks have a mixing valve to agitate the tank?


----------



## terrapro

I have to say I am happy! We were able to start the motor and the pump worked great AND it was putting out around 9gpm without the boom at as low as we could go idle on the motor and about 10%on the manual return valve.

I haven't hooked up the electronic valve yet though. I am just going to run the one valve on a toggle in the cab for now. Just run a hot from the battery and a ground to the frame.


----------



## Plow man Foster

terrapro;1366991 said:


> I have to say I am happy! We were able to start the motor and the pump worked great AND it was putting out around 9gpm without the boom at as low as we could go idle on the motor and about 10%on the manual return valve.
> 
> I haven't hooked up the electronic valve yet though. I am just going to run the one valve on a toggle in the cab for now. Just run a hot from the battery and a ground to the frame.


I Just built a sprayer for this guy in BG, Ohio...
heres he had 3 electric valves. Plus one for his hose reel. Even though it wasnt necessary! (he insisted!) Money wasnt a big deal to this guy clearly.

ANYWAYSS, here is the type of toggle switch box we used. He wanted something that wasnt too permanent so The cord goes in though the door and the box just sits on the floor or could be handheld while hes spraying.

Only difference is the one we got- the buttons light up when they're turned on. 
The other buttons power his lights on the sprayers, Strobes, etc.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Brad3403;1366211 said:


> Great thread. Couple questions....
> 
> Can you get away without a brinemaker? If you filled up you're spray tank with water and the appropriate amount of salt and drove around for a short time would the salt not disolve forming the brine?
> 
> I've seen water trucks go through auctions really cheap. They may need a bit of work but then you have a huge tank, spray boom, etc.....thoughts???


I have had that question many times. The loose rock salt in the tank would suck into the pump and plug it or break the impeller. No matter what salt you use other than maybe solar salt there is debris in it. How would you get the debris out of the sprayer tank.

Using a brinemaker and external storage tanks allows the debris to be removed from the brine before getting to more expensive sprayer parts. JMO


----------



## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1367096 said:


> I Just built a sprayer for this guy in BG, Ohio...
> heres he had 3 electric valves. Plus one for his hose reel. Even though it wasnt necessary! (he insisted!) Money wasnt a big deal to this guy clearly.
> 
> ANYWAYSS, here is the type of toggle switch box we used. He wanted something that wasnt too permanent so The cord goes in though the door and the box just sits on the floor or could be handheld while hes spraying.
> 
> Only difference is the one we got- the buttons light up when they're turned on.
> The other buttons power his lights on the sprayers, Strobes, etc.


Where did you get that set up in the pic?


----------



## Plow man Foster

Kubota 8540;1367142 said:


> Where did you get that set up in the pic?


AVS Makes them. They arent cheap the one in the pic is like 70 bucks or more! 
That is the: AVS 7 Rocker Switch Blue

I found 3 of those On ebay from this guy who was going to use them but never got around to it. Got them for 20 bucks each.... i guess they are for an air ride system but really they are just toggles.... 
LOVE the fact of how Most of the wiring is Already dont though! And the wires are protected/ wrapped!

LINK TO EBAY

I also have used a couple of these. (in the link) 
At 30 bucks they are cheaper than the other one but i like the AVS ones alot better! 
Working on finding a cheaper alternative! So if anyone knows of one let me know!
Link here


----------



## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1367159 said:


> AVS Makes them. They arent cheap the one in the pic is like 70 bucks or more!
> That is the: AVS 7 Rocker Switch Blue
> 
> I found 3 of those On ebay from this guy who was going to use them but never got around to it. Got them for 20 bucks each.... i guess they are for an air ride system but really they are just toggles....
> LOVE the fact of how Most of the wiring is Already dont though! And the wires are protected/ wrapped!
> 
> LINK TO EBAY
> 
> I also have used a couple of these. (in the link)
> At 30 bucks they are cheaper than the other one but i like the AVS ones alot better!
> Working on finding a cheaper alternative! So if anyone knows of one let me know!
> Link here


Thanks for the links. Those would have worked perfect on the trailer mounted sprayer that I finished Friday nite. The guy showed up at 1PM with his tank and trailer, I worked on finishing it up, wiring to his truck, building the boomless setup ( which mounted to the skid with a receiver) and letting him test spray until 11:30pm. He then had a 3.5 hour ride back to Iowa. No I didn't get any finished pics. I was more concerned about getting finished than anything. I will see if he will send some pics to me.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Kubota 8540;1348049 said:


> I found a 4 channel wireless remote set up real cheap, doesn't look too bad but haven't had a chance to play with it yet.
> 
> Just have to hook each pump/motor to a 12 volt solenoid, because most wireless remote systems will only handle low amperage, like 5-7 amps generally. Your described set up sounds similar to what I did a couple of weeks ago. Wish I had of taken some pics.


fin
ally hooked up the wireless controller for the boom valves, it woks awesome for $40.


----------



## Metro Lawn

This is my sprayer.


----------



## Tbrothers

i just picked up a Teejet electric valve and was wondering how you guys are mounting them? Do i ahve to make a custom bracket or is there a easier way.Thanks


----------



## firelwn82

Whats the best way to add baffling to a 275 gallon tote. The opening isnt big enough for baffle balls. I was just thinking about tossing chunks of 2 and or 3 inch pvc pipe inside the tank and letting them float. All baffles really do is knock the waves down and keep the water from sloshing back and fourth.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Tbrothers;1377931 said:


> i just picked up a Teejet electric valve and was wondering how you guys are mounting them? Do i ahve to make a custom bracket or is there a easier way.Thanks


Custom bracket has to be made as far as I know. I'll be making one today myself.


----------



## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1377993 said:


> Whats the best way to add baffling to a 275 gallon tote. The opening isnt big enough for baffle balls. I was just thinking about tossing chunks of 2 and or 3 inch pvc pipe inside the tank and letting them float. All baffles really do is knock the waves down and keep the water from sloshing back and fourth.


Slickest and least expensive is what the Canadians on here call Big O tubing. In English that means corrugated black drainage tubing. I cut it in pieces and fill my tanks with it. It takes about 100' per 100 gallons. Works awesome and is inexpensive.


----------



## Bossman 92

Alright I have a question. How well do baffel balls really work? I just filled my spray tank and took a drive around town, WOW. Lots of sloshing!

Bossman


----------



## firelwn82

Bossman 92;1378045 said:


> Alright I have a question. How well do baffel balls really work? I just filled my spray tank and took a drive around town, WOW. Lots of sloshing!
> 
> Bossman


I have never used them. There are plenty of comments on them being very affective. The problem is you need a 16 inch opening to get them into the tank.


----------



## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1377997 said:


> It takes about 100' per 100 gallons. Works awesome and is inexpensive.


WOW.... Wouldnt that take up a ton of space? 100'/100 gallons I would think you would loose 10-20 gallons of capacity?? Is my thinking correct?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Not sure how effective they are, but they are certainly expensive. A 300 gallon tank divided by #32 = 10 that would cost $260 + shipping. Corrugated drainage tubing cut into pieces then put in the tank, any tank would cost about $60-75? I know when I do a HARD stop the liquid takes seconds to transfer thru the tubing and only raises about an inch or two in the front of the tank.

I have never measured how much loss but 10-20 out of 275 really isn't much compared to what is does for reducing the slosh.


----------



## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1378064 said:


> I know when I do a HARD stop the liquid takes seconds to transfer thru the tubing and only raises about an inch or two in the front of the tank.
> 
> I have never measured how much loss but 10-20 out of 275 really isn't much compared to what is does for reducing the slosh.


That is very true. that was a dumb statement on my part. So is this what you have been using inside of your tanks?


----------



## Bossman 92

Black tubing cut into peices...... genus! How long do you cut the peices into? Now I know what todays project is.

Bossman


----------



## firelwn82

The length of the pipe isn't what matters I wouldn't think. Its the capacity that the pipe takes up is the biggest thing. I would say varyiong lengths would be best. 3-8 inches imo.


----------



## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1378096 said:


> That is very true. that was a dumb statement on my part. So is this what you have been using inside of your tanks?


I don't think it's a dumb statement. I think of it this way. I can put a salt spreader on my truck at about 3,000+ pounds and have no issues with hauling it around. But when I put even a small sprayer that fully loaded weighs 200 x 11 pounds = 2200 pounds and it drives me nuts from all the wiggling of the truck and it feels like a small car pushing me when I hit the brakes.All of that is because the weight of the slosh


----------



## Kubota 8540

Cut the pieces to what ever length will work best in your tank. I most generally cut them to 16-24 " long and just randomly throw them in filling with as many pieces that I can squeeze in there.


----------



## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1378112 said:


> The length of the pipe isn't what matters I wouldn't think. Its the capacity that the pipe takes up is the biggest thing. I would say varyiong lengths would be best. 3-8 inches imo.


Its a matter of how well you use the pipe? :laughing:


----------



## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1378119 said:


> filling with as many pieces that I can squeeze in there.


So do you fill it up completely?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Yes I fill the tank completely.


----------



## firelwn82

Kubota 8540;1378121 said:


> Its a matter of how well you use the pipe? :laughing:


HA HA.... I see you may have bigger pipe than I..... :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

200 gallon tank with 8" lid I use 3" diameter. Tank with larger lid I use 4" diameter. Corrugated and perforated is best?


----------



## firelwn82

On another note. My sprayer is complete. I used a 4hp 2 inch gas pump. at a 1/4 throttle i'm getting 20 psi and a ton of liquid on the ground. I have to get my electric valves hooked up still though. With the tank valve open it gravity feeds to the tips and onto the ground, with the motor running obviously the leak is more.... lol I sliced my hane wide open on Thursday so I havent been able to do much else to it to get it all going. I'm choosing to leave my tailgate spreader on because I'm lazy plus I work solo so its a pita taking it off and putting it back on. I will hopefully get some pictures of the setup today and make a new thread posting the pictures. I'm waiting for the damn stitches to mend my hand back together so I can finish this thing up. Recieved 9 stitches and some dabbles of super glue to piece it back together. Posted it here http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=20844&page=6 and this was friday afternoon


----------



## Kubota 8540

AH.... minor flesh wound.....scratch LOL

Did that once with a razor utility knife and my thigh. Yes cutting corrugated tubing in a sewer trench, nice.

I received 3-4 wraps of 2" duct tape, bloody pants to my knee and a ARE DONE WITH THAT PIPE YET?


----------



## firelwn82

That is exactly what I normally would have done. However the captain and the fire chief had a different view of opinion. lol I also did when I let pressure go and it starting gushing like a gauzier


----------



## NickT

Subscribed


----------



## turn54

*tank baffle*

I also use 3" corrugated pipe in my 300 gallon tank. I used a chop saw to cut the pipe and until i get a strainer installed, I constantly plug up my tips with little pieces of pipe that the saw left over. Other then that, it pretty well stopped all sloshing


----------



## DAFFMOBILEWASH

The first time I used Big O was on a horizontal 1200gal tank. Never thought of cutting it up, just started feeding the hose in untill I was out of hose. Remeber the 1500-3500 trucks do not handle the live loads of liquids very well. To anyone who thinks they will be fine, think again.Shifting weights can make a scrary situation deadly. 

Also don't forget to strap those tanks in. Sure they might be fine when driving normal. But can become airborne projectiles in a spin out or head on collision. Its better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## Kubota 8540

turn54;1378932 said:


> I also use 3" corrugated pipe in my 300 gallon tank. I used a chop saw to cut the pipe and until i get a strainer installed, I constantly plug up my tips with little pieces of pipe that the saw left over. Other then that, it pretty well stopped all sloshing


I used a utility razor knife to cut mine and had no problems with plastic shavings. I NOW vacuum all my new tanks before filling them. When the manufacturer cuts the tank fittings and lids in, there are a lot of shavings left in side the tank which is a long term problem. Those shavings just keep showing up at all the wrong times.


----------



## goosegettr

when you guys do a 90/10 mix are you using liquid CC or do you add CC flakes to the brine maker


----------



## Kubota 8540

goosegettr;1381687 said:


> when you guys do a 90/10 mix are you using liquid CC or do you add CC flakes to the brine maker


I use Liquidow from Sicalco Ltd. It seems to be the easiest way for me.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Had a problem with the Boom extender nozzles and Boom buster nozzles on the Iowa sprayer. So today I played in the water and salt brine all afternoon in the Iowa country side to get them spraying with a consistent spray pattern. 90% corrected but they still want to spray a heavier line at the very further most point and a void in the middle about 4 feet wide? Haven't had this problem before.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Working on a sprayer plumbing and boom package, no skid, no tank, that's headed for Mooresville, North Carolina over the weekend. This stuff is getting sprayed everywhere.


----------



## Plow man Foster

Working on another pull behind liquid sprayer! For behind the ATV!


----------



## Tbrothers

Where do you guys get your power from to run your electric valve? The spray unit I'm putting together is mounted on a trailer so I was wondering would a deep cycle battery be enough to work that valve? I was hoping the valve only took power to open but it needs power to stay open.I'm tring not to have any wires running to the cab of the truck. Was thinking I could plug into my trailer plug to keep the battery charged. Any Ideas?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Tbrothers;1383621 said:


> Where do you guys get your power from to run your electric valve? The spray unit I'm putting together is mounted on a trailer so I was wondering would a deep cycle battery be enough to work that valve? I was hoping the valve only took power to open but it needs power to stay open.I'm tring not to have any wires running to the cab of the truck. Was thinking I could plug into my trailer plug to keep the battery charged. Any Ideas?


I found a cool little wireless remote control, that can take a power source from your trailer plug and no battery would be needed. http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch.asp?px=FO&scriteria=AA76970 this has 4 different channels so you can use it to turn on 4 different things. It works great with the boom valves. Simple hook up.


----------



## Tbrothers

Thanks for the link looks good I'll order that one. I bought one the other day from tractor supply but it only has one channel and it was $30. I'm taking that one back and will get that one then I could run fold down booms to extend the main boom by 2ft per side for bigger lots.


----------



## firelwn82

This is the one I purchased. http://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Perform..._1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1324220427&sr=1-1

I have not hooked it up yet due to my slush fund running low due to no snow...  I still need to get the 2 valves '1 for the boom and 1 for the spray wand', hose and a sprayer wand for side walks. Has anyone used something like this for a side walk hose reel?
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/hose-reels/air-hose-reel-40131.html or 
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-to...ose-reel-with-3-8-eighth-inch-hose-93897.html


----------



## Plow man Foster

Tbrothers;1383636 said:


> Thanks for the link looks good I'll order that one. I bought one the other day from tractor supply but it only has one channel and it was $30. I'm taking that one back and will get that one then I could run fold down booms to extend the main boom by 2ft per side for bigger lots.


Wait, Wait, Wait! 
Fold down booms to extend your "main boon" 2' per side?
Sounds like alot of work for 4' extra feet...
Why not just use a Setup like Metro With Side spray nozzles??
Assuming your going to use actuators to raise and lower it. Not too sure how they will hold up in the snow and LIQUID Mostly!

Im making a new setup kinda like that-Which will allow me to spray down a whole subdivision street in one pass!

*Where is everyone getting their spray parts from??? *


----------



## firelwn82

Plow man Foster;1383705 said:


> *Where is everyone getting their spray parts from??? *


www.spraysmarter.com is the cheapiest place I have found. But Kubota loves 'I mean that seriously' :laughing: www.dultmeir.com All of my spray hose is coming from tractor supply and and the plumbing is coming from ACE. Its whats close for me.


----------



## Tbrothers

the trailer I'm using was given to me. It was a lawn spray unit that a friend used in the summer time. I bought a new pump from Tractor supply and all the hose and fittings came from Minnesota Wanner. As for the boom it was just a idea to be able to spray 12ft swath in bigger lots. They would be something you would have to fold down by hand and lock in place.


----------



## Metro Lawn

I was reading alot of posts regarding using drain tube as a baffle. I use it and it works great except I leave it in one pc. and just coil it in the tank. You can remove it if you ever need to. I have a 330 gallon tank and used a 50' pc. and I get no slosh at all.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Metro Lawn;1384779 said:


> I was reading alot of posts regarding using drain tube as a baffle. I use it and it works great except I leave it in one pc. and just coil it in the tank. You can remove it if you ever need to. I have a 330 gallon tank and used a 50' pc. and I get no slosh at all.


Seems to really depend on the style of tank and the tank lid size. I use a lot of low profile tanks that have 8-10" lids so I found cutting the tube into pieces works fairly easily. Larger tanks or square shaped tanks with larger openings would make it easier to feed 1 piece into them.


----------



## firelwn82

Metro Lawn;1384779 said:


> I was reading alot of posts regarding using drain tube as a baffle. I use it and it works great except I leave it in one pc. and just coil it in the tank. You can remove it if you ever need to. I have a 330 gallon tank and used a 50' pc. and I get no slosh at all.


I'm going to try the one piece idea. God knows how good I am at using razor knifes lately.... :laughing:


----------



## Metro Lawn

firelwn82;1385059 said:


> I'm going to try the one piece idea. God knows how good I am at using razor knifes lately.... :laughing:


I'm gonna have the rest of the guys pitch in and get you a pair of them mesh steel gloves...lol


----------



## Metro Lawn

Kubota 8540;1384959 said:


> Seems to really depend on the style of tank and the tank lid size. I use a lot of low profile tanks that have 8-10" lids so I found cutting the tube into pieces works fairly easily. Larger tanks or square shaped tanks with larger openings would make it easier to feed 1 piece into them.


Yeah, my tank has an 8 inch opening so it was easy to just keep shoving 1 pc in.


----------



## firelwn82

Metro Lawn;1385745 said:


> I'm gonna have the rest of the guys pitch in and get you a pair of them mesh steel gloves...lol


You dont know how many times I have thought of buying those damn gloves..... The problem is I would have not worn them.... lol I hate wearing gloves. Even in a house fire the first thing to come off is those damn gloves. Well maybe the mask then the gloves. That things a pain in the ass too...


----------



## AMS77

I have been following all the threads and posts on hear about making and using salt brine so i decided to try my hand at it. I made a small brine maker out of two 55 gallon drums which should make plenty of brine for me right now. I just scored a 700 gallon tank and 300 gallon tank for $100 bucks so i have room to store it. 

I'm thinking of just doing a gravity system with a 12 volt valve on it two control it from inside the truck.

Question what is the spread rate for liquid?


----------



## Plow man Foster

AMS77;1387727 said:


> I have been following all the threads and posts on hear about making and using salt brine so i decided to try my hand at it. I made a small brine maker out of two 55 gallon drums which should make plenty of brine for me right now. I just scored a 700 gallon tank and 300 gallon tank for $100 bucks so i have room to store it.
> 
> I'm thinking of just doing a gravity system with a 12 volt valve on it two control it from inside the truck.
> 
> Question what is the spread rate for liquid?


Honestly if you have never tried brine before i would say go to your local suppier and get like 5 gallons of brine/liquid. And try it out on your driveway!

As for your sprayer,
It really depends on the unit. I have never used a straight gravity fed system but i really dont like the idea. A gravity system limits you to pouring in straight lines.. which sucks because when it melts in thick snow all you see is melted lines. like this: 




I can spray 40 GPM Out of my two Tee Jet Nozzles. Thats with a Cheap china made 6HP pump.


----------



## AMS77

Plow man Foster;1387770 said:


> Honestly if you have never tried brine before i would say go to your local suppier and get like 5 gallons of brine/liquid. And try it out on your driveway!
> 
> As for your sprayer,
> It really depends on the unit. I have never used a straight gravity fed system but i really dont like the idea. A gravity system limits you to pouring in straight lines.. which sucks because when it melts in thick snow all you see is melted lines. like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can spray 40 GPM Out of my two Tee Jet Nozzles. Thats with a Cheap china made 6HP pump.


This is basically a trial and error thing this year. We did some testing last year with some liquid calcium in just a hand pump sprayer on some side walks and liked how it worked.

As for the spray unit i can get a cheap pump at harbor freight and set something up like kubota or you have.


----------



## Kubota 8540

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JH22...eature=related" Well that wasn't very impressive? My skidsteer mounted sprayer will cover 10' with 2 nozzles


----------



## AMS77

Kubota 8540;1387889 said:


> "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JH22...eature=related" Well that wasn't very impressive? My skidsteer mounted sprayer will cover 10' with 2 nozzles


Thats sort of what i was thinking seemed like the spacing was a little far apart but maybe the whole thing was messed up.

kubota on the boom less you use two correct a left and right? But how far apart are they spaced or does it depend on there pattern.


----------



## Kubota 8540

AMS77;1387910 said:


> Thats sort of what i was thinking seemed like the spacing was a little far apart but maybe the whole thing was messed up.
> 
> kubota on the boom less you use two correct a left and right? But how far apart are they spaced or does it depend on there pattern.


There are numerous different types out there that can be used. My skidsteer mounted sprayer uses a quick attach type and sprays a 60" wide fan spray. A member stopped by a few weeks ago and picked up a large fan spray single nozzle that sprayed 16-18' pattern. I set up a skidsteer trailer mounted sprayer for a contractor in Iowa recently that used a couple half pattern nozzles that sprayed 20' each way of center. Another member has one pair that sprays 10' each way 2 nozzles. With streamer nozzles I can get so far about 17' off a 100" spray boom.


----------



## AMS77

Kubota 8540;1387915 said:


> There are numerous different types out there that can be used. My skidsteer mounted sprayer uses a quick attach type and sprays a 60" wide fan spray. A member stopped by a few weeks ago and picked up a large fan spray single nozzle that sprayed 16-18' pattern. I set up a skidsteer trailer mounted sprayer for a contractor in Iowa recently that used a couple half pattern nozzles that sprayed 20' each way of center. Another member has one pair that sprays 10' each way 2 nozzles. With streamer nozzles I can get so far about 17' off a 100" spray boom.


WOW Lots to think about.


----------



## Kubota 8540

AMS77;1387933 said:


> WOW Lots to think about.


Personally for a over all spray pattern I think I like the stream type nozzles best. TeeJet SJ-3 I like the stream patterns to hit the ground about 5" apart.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Is this your sprayer kubota? 



 One of the nicest ive seen.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Yes that was mine. 2 guys showed up with cash and 1 bought both MY sprayer and brinemaker. 1 zone sprayed about 11-12' wide. Not sure what I'm going to build to replace it yet. Just so many ways to do so.


----------



## AMS77

Kubota 8540;1388060 said:


> Personally for a over all spray pattern I think I like the stream type nozzles best. TeeJet SJ-3 I like the stream patterns to hit the ground about 5" apart.


Thats what i like also. I was thinking of mounting it with my tailgate spreader so i could use one or the other if need be.


----------



## Kubota 8540

AMS77;1388079 said:


> Thats what i like also. I was thinking of mounting it with my tailgate spreader so i could use one or the other if need be.


That seems like it would be easy enough to do


----------



## Kubota 8540

I have had some VERY minor issues with that style tank so I'm thinking of trying a new style and Manufacturer. Just a basic rectangle 40"w x 60" L x 20" h but rated at 2.0 sg


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1388076 said:


> Yes that was mine. 2 guys showed up with cash and 1 bought both MY sprayer and brinemaker. 1 zone sprayed about 11-12' wide. Not sure what I'm going to build to replace it yet. Just so many ways to do so.


Can you post the boom specs, nozzle color, spacing, height from ground and GPA for that rig if you still have it?

Cheers
Jeff


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1388154 said:


> Can you post the boom specs, nozzle color, spacing, height from ground and GPA for that rig if you still have it?
> 
> Cheers
> Jeff


That boom was called an after thought.

It started out with teejet turret head 5 position dry boom on 20" centers, but didn't meet my expectations. So I added a single dry body in between each turret head so it would be 10" on center.

Fortunately a wet boom design is much simpler and cheaper, with wet boom check valve bodies and SJ-3 blacks on 10" centers.


----------



## Wayne Volz

*Brine*

If you are making your own sodium chloride brine do you have something to measure the sodium percentage in your finished product? Generally you want somewhere around 23.5% solution.

If you want to reduce your application rate per acre you can add about 15% magnesium or calcium to your sodium brine and this will also increase efficiencies of the ice melter. At this mix and rate we spray at 25 to 30 gallons per acre.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1388219 said:


> That boom was called an after thought.
> 
> It started out with teejet turret head 5 position dry boom on 20" centers, but didn't meet my expectations. So I added a single dry body in between each turret head so it would be 10" on center.
> 
> Fortunately a wet boom design is much simpler and cheaper, with wet boom check valve bodies and SJ-3 blacks on 10" centers.


Hey,

Great info. Can I ask why you prefer wet booms? I always thought dry were easier to build and more forgiving if you happen to break it?

Cheers
Jeff


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1388293 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Great info. Can I ask why you prefer wet booms? I always thought dry were easier to build and more forgiving if you happen to break it?
> 
> Cheers
> Jeff


I did too at first.....but.....Less pieces, less time to build. 11 holes to drill in the pipe and 11 bodies to install using 1 screw each.


----------



## AMS77

Kubota one more question well for right now lol. Where is the best cheapest place to get a salometer i looked at dultmier but i thought you posted another link on hear for them i've done a search and cant find it.

Thanks Aaron


----------



## Kubota 8540

AMS77;1388692 said:


> Kubota one more question well for right now lol. Where is the best cheapest place to get a salometer i looked at dultmier but i thought you posted another link on hear for them i've done a search and cant find it.
> 
> Thanks Aaron


http://www.novatech-usa.com/Products/Sodium-Chloride-Calcium-Chloride-Hydrometers/6611-2 Much cheaper than $66


----------



## AMS77

Kubota 8540;1388719 said:


> http://www.novatech-usa.com/Products/Sodium-Chloride-Calcium-Chloride-Hydrometers/6611-2 Much cheaper than $66


Thanks Kubota


----------



## leon

*salt etc.*



AMS77;1388692 said:


> Kubota one more question well for right now lol. Where is the best cheapest place to get a salometer i looked at dultmier but i thought you posted another link on hear for them i've done a search and cant find it.
> 
> Thanks Aaron


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You can buy saline refractometers and salometer from Lab Safety Supply, Ben Meadows, or any large chemical supply warehouse.

A simpler, quicker way to find one is to any large restaurant supply house and they have them as Salometers are used in and for cooking as well.

One thing to seriously consider about a salometer is that it is not as precise as a saline refractometer so please keep this in mind and you need to have a safe place to store the glass bulb jar and the salometer as they are both made of non pyrex glass unless you specifically ask for a pyrex bulb jar to testing(they will have a graduated scale of volumes on them as well(most good one do)


----------



## AMS77

leon;1388856 said:


> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> You can buy saline refractometers and salometer from Lab Safety Supply, Ben Meadows, or any large chemical supply warehouse.
> 
> A simpler, quicker way to find one is to any large restaurant supply house and they have them as Salometers are used in and for cooking as well.
> 
> One thing to seriously consider about a salometer is that it is not as precise as a saline refractometer so please keep this in mind and you need to have a safe place to store the glass bulb jar and the salometer as they are both made of non pyrex glass unless you specifically ask for a pyrex bulb jar to testing(they will have a graduated scale of volumes on them as well(most good one do)


Thanks leon. So i guess putting them in the toolbox is out:laughing:


----------



## leon

*salt*

NOPE!! The Tool Box is not to be considered safe storage for either the salometer or the refractometer.

The carrying storage tubes for a hydrometer/Salometer are not strong enough to protect them unless you purchase the wooden storage box with the formed cushion nserts which are specifically constructed for a hydrometer.

The refractometer has its own carrying pouch and should not be left outdoors and it nust be stored in a warm area after it is used.

You can carry the refractometer around in your pocket to check the chloride levels as you work but it should not be exposed to temperature extremes and needs it to be handled 
and stored properly when not in use. there are several grades/types of refactometers for sale as well for testing sugars, chlorides and petrochemicals.

If you purchase the refractometer you do not have to worry about dipping for samples to fill the bulb jar or debating the meniscus level which will be affected by the Barometric pressure at the time..

You simply dip the refractometer part way in the brine and remove it and then ;look in the vieing lens to see the specific gravity measurement

Have fun


----------



## Kubota 8540

For as many as I have referenced to or sold more than 1 to, you would think they would figure out log chains and hydrometers are not to be stored together. 

Got to go test the home brew.


----------



## Plow man Foster

Hey Jim (Or any one else really) , Is it possible to re-plumb a old atv sprayer tank???
I was thinking about making a Small pull behind sprayer, Just inherited this 26 Gallon tank from my buddy. 

On the bottom it has a Male threaded 3/4 nipple i guess. The threads look pretty worn down so thats where i think my leak is..

Is there anything i can do to save this tank that you know of? Thanks in advance


----------



## Plow man Foster

heres some pics of it!


----------



## leon

*atv tank*

Your tank looks like its beyond the help 
of a hot plastic weld BUT perhaps a gray plastic 
pipe cap threaded on the exposed male fitting 
using two wraps of teflon tape may salvage it 
for your useage.

Tthe fitting of the plastic pipe cap,teflon tape and filling 
the tank half full of fresh water will tell you if the
repair worked as that would be enough pressure 
against the shell of the tank.


----------



## firelwn82

2-3 wraps of teflon should work. If not then 2 wraps of teflon and some pvc pipe dope and your golden. Put aadapter on it so you never have to mess with that connection in the future too. Should be good to go.


----------



## Plow man Foster

thanks guys i gotta figure something out... O wanna use this tank! lol 
i think he (the previous owner) did something like firelwn82 was talking about..That yellow stuff on the drain is some sort of glue he had....Then the fitting was on it. 


I have to go to homedepot and see what they have... I might just end up cutting the whole thing off...


----------



## Kubota 8540

Don't let a little ol hole like that stop you from using that tank. :laughing:


----------



## Plow man Foster

Kubota 8540;1389186 said:


> Don't let a little ol hole like that stop you from using that tank. :laughing:


Lmao im determined!


----------



## Kubota 8540

So do we spend more time posting or more time working?


----------



## AndersonCS

Kubota,

I started w/ SJ3 Green tips spaced at 20" and hated the results. Added tips to the pull plow to make them 10" on center (will try tonight). I'm still wishing I could get more speed out of this setup and wider pattern I just don't know how to make a quick-tach spray bar for the wings on the pull plow. I'm worried they will get ripped off plowing with the wings folded in against drifts and such.


----------



## firelwn82

Have you thought about mounting the bar in between the pull plow and the rear bumper? Mount the hose with your tips on sguare tube. When your not spraying you could disconnect the two ends with a pull pin and set them in the bed of the truck. Or weld a piece of square tube on the center tube and you could keep the two endswith the center section with the pull pins.


----------



## Kubota 8540

AndersonCS;1390039 said:


> Kubota,
> 
> I started w/ SJ3 Green tips spaced at 20" and hated the results. Added tips to the pull plow to make them 10" on center (will try tonight). I'm still wishing I could get more speed out of this setup and wider pattern I just don't know how to make a quick-tach spray bar for the wings on the pull plow. I'm worried they will get ripped off plowing with the wings folded in against drifts and such.


With the SJ 3 tips even at their proper 20" height the 8" gaps between streams were not to my liking. I have 2 bars. 1 on 5" centers with SJ3 tips (get it done) and 1 bar 10" on center which puts the streams 5" apart. I liked that one. You can try raising and lowering the boom height also. But it should be kept close to 20" height for the proper tip rating gpa.

I use the blacks. I'll take a pic of my test pipe to show you how to get wider.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1389392 said:


> Lmao im determined!


Just put a screw with a rubber washer on that little ol hole.:laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

Sprayer on the back of the skidsteer. 25 gallon tank (2) 5 gpm 12 volt electric pumps and 10 wide spray pattern @ 80 gpa









Hydraulic powered pump on 1065 gallon with skid mounted spray boom.









Accumulating parts for MY new sprayer. 3 zone that will be all stream nozzles hoping to hit 25 feet wide at 80 gpa.


----------



## Plow man Foster

Kubota 8540;1389186 said:


> Don't let a little ol hole like that stop you from using that tank. :laughing:


ahahahahah! Lol 
I ended up wrapping the thing with teflon tape, Put some Water proof/tight silicone on the threads of the new 3/4 PVC Valve...Put that sucker on and it hasnt dripped once!

ANYWAY.... How do you like those Hydraulic pumps?? One of our Big Pickups has Central hydraulics. We have a sprayer in it but hate trying to start that honda clone power pro motor/pump on a cold night! 
Also one of the local counties (Farmington) Has a BAD A$$ sprayer that they run off of hydraulics. Sprays 40 FT across!


----------



## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1403590 said:


> ahahahahah! Lol
> I ended up wrapping the thing with teflon tape, Put some Water proof/tight silicone on the threads of the new 3/4 PVC Valve...Put that sucker on and it hasnt dripped once!
> 
> ANYWAY.... How do you like those Hydraulic pumps?? One of our Big Pickups has Central hydraulics. We have a sprayer in it but hate trying to start that honda clone power pro motor/pump on a cold night!
> Also one of the local counties (Farmington) Has a BAD A$$ sprayer that they run off of hydraulics. Sprays 40 FT across!


Haven't fired it up yet. Going to try to run it off my skid steer hydraulics and try it out later this week. Makes a lot of sense though.


----------



## Plow man Foster

Kubota 8540;1403711 said:


> Haven't fired it up yet. Going to try to run it off my skid steer hydraulics and try it out later this week. Makes a lot of sense though.


Keep me posted! Would love to know how it works out for you! Also if you dont mind me asking, what truck will you be putting that setup in?

We have a kodiak with a 550 gallon tank in it... Not sure if we want to go bigger or not yet!


----------



## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1403853 said:


> Keep me posted! Would love to know how it works out for you! Also if you dont mind me asking, what truck will you be putting that setup in?
> 
> We have a kodiak with a 550 gallon tank in it... Not sure if we want to go bigger or not yet!


City of Joliet, single axle 30000 gross?


----------



## Tbrothers

wondering if any of you guys put flow meters on your sprayers? If so where do you buy them at a reasonable cost?


----------



## Plow man Foster

Kubota 8540;1403866 said:


> City of Joliet, single axle 30000 gross?


yeah in our truck now we have a 550 gallon tank. Full we weigh heavy as a MOFO! It fits in between the wheel wells. I think for a bigger tank we would have to customize it. Also mount it on a Skid like you do all fancy and such!



Tbrothers;1405389 said:


> wondering if any of you guys put flow meters on your sprayers? If so where do you buy them at a reasonable cost?


I dont. I can clearly see how much has gone out if i get out the truck. I also know that if its At or below the rear window im half empty...


----------



## Plow man Foster

Hey Jim did you ever try out that hydro powered pump?? If so how is it? 
No rush if you havent! Just curious to see how it compares to a regular 6HP Gas honda! Thanks!


----------



## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1412513 said:


> Hey Jim did you ever try out that hydro powered pump?? If so how is it?
> No rush if you havent! Just curious to see how it compares to a regular 6HP Gas honda! Thanks!


No. I ran out of time before I had to deliver it. If I had calibrated it to my skidsteer hydraulics it would not have been set up to the central hydraulics on the actual truck it would be mounted on and would have just been a messy oil situation.


----------



## Plow man Foster

Kubota 8540;1413673 said:


> No. I ran out of time before I had to deliver it. If I had calibrated it to my skidsteer hydraulics it would not have been set up to the central hydraulics on the actual truck it would be mounted on and would have just been a messy oil situation.


Ahhh I see! You're determined enough to make a sprayer and not test it out! Nice!


----------



## Kubota 8540

Plow man Foster;1413938 said:


> Ahhh I see! You're determined enough to make a sprayer and not test it out! Nice!


Just confident I guess.


----------



## firelwn82

Fianlly finished my spray unit. Tested it out twice with water. I didn't like the spray pattern at 18 inches so I trimmed it down to 15 inches. I still didn't like that so I trimmed it to 12 and added 2 more tips. So now I have 8 tips spaced twelve inches apart and there 18.5 inches off of the ground. Filled the tank with de-icer went out last night pulled the string twice to start the pump and snapped the cord.... .:realmad: SO I used it with gravity feed.... YEAH NOT A GOOD IDEA..... Holy crap it it took forever and I used so much liquid it was insane. O and it looked like hell.. So now that its done I'm hoping to test it out in the next couple of days. I'm using a 4 hp transfer pump decided against the electric pumps. I think a 6.4 hp pump would be better though.


----------



## firelwn82

Kubota I do have a question for you though. I'm using a 10gpm electric valve in my setup. Do you think that will be enough for 8 tips? Right now I'm using light green TJ3 tips but thinking that I'm going to be changing to the blacks. What are your opinions?


----------



## Tbrothers

. I tried my hose reel yesterday and it doesn't seem to have the pressure that i thought it would, is my hose to long roughly 200ft of hose. my gauge says its a 60 psi but i don't have that at the spray wand. any ideas could there be a problem in my reel it was used when i got it?


----------



## firelwn82

Tbrothers;1414847 said:


> . I tried my hose reel yesterday and it doesn't seem to have the pressure that i thought it would, is my hose to long roughly 200ft of hose. my gauge says its a 60 psi but i don't have that at the spray wand. any ideas could there be a problem in my reel it was used when i got it?


I would think the hose would hold the pressure no matter how long it is. Try to reduce it about a foot before the wand and that would tell you.


----------



## magnatrac

firelwn82;1414858 said:


> I would think the hose would hold the pressure no matter how long it is. Try to reduce it about a foot before the wand and that would tell you.


What are you talking about ? Your a fire man you should know about friction loss. It's insane on hose depending on diameter and fittings ?

, shaun


----------



## Tbrothers

magnatrac;1415074 said:


> What are you talking about ? Your a fire man you should know about friction loss. It's insane on hose depending on diameter and fittings ?
> 
> , shaun


I'm going from a 3/4 to about maybe a 1/2 it seems like the pressure never changes even if I close off the back feed to the tank it stays about the same. thought maybe it was the wand i was using so i took it off and it barely seems to come out the hose in my opinion. i was going to take all the hose off and see if it was plugged in the swivel. any ideas would be great. thanks


----------



## Plow man Foster

Tbrothers;1415353 said:


> I'm going from a 3/4 to about maybe a 1/2 it seems like the pressure never changes even if I close off the back feed to the tank it stays about the same. thought maybe it was the wand i was using so i took it off and it barely seems to come out the hose in my opinion. i was going to take all the hose off and see if it was plugged in the swivel. any ideas would be great. thanks


Im sorry if you already stated this, but what kind of pump are you using??


----------



## Tbrothers

its a honda 5.5 poly pump i think its 150 gpm . come out if the spray bar awesome and its just at a idle.


----------



## Plow man Foster

Tbrothers;1415370 said:


> its a honda 5.5 poly pump i think its 150 gpm . come out if the spray bar awesome and its just at a idle.


Sounds like you gotta kick the throttle up when you want to use the wand. Because im SURE your sprayer bar's hose is ALOT shorter than the hose that goes to your wand....Have you tried this?


----------



## Tbrothers

ya i had the pressure gauge maxed out and it didn't change anything. the hose is 3/8 i was wrong, this afternoon i'm going to unroll the hose and make sure its not kinked anywhere.


----------



## deicepro

Tbrothers;1415370 said:


> its a honda 5.5 poly pump i think its 150 gpm . come out if the spray bar awesome and its just at a idle.


Which one did you buy??? If its the one I'm thinking of...its 220gpm


----------



## terrapro

Yeah my 250ft of 3/8 hose only puts out around 5gpm max, not real impressive but I only use it for spraying lawn and landscape. 

I still need to get a hose hooked up for LCC this winter. I was definately going to use atleast 1/2" hose but only like 50ft of it. 

What spray guns do you guys use? I could use my Teejet but it tends to leak at the trigger.


----------



## Plow man Foster

terrapro;1415661 said:


> Yeah my 250ft of 3/8 hose only puts out around 5gpm max, not real impressive but I only use it for spraying lawn and landscape.
> 
> I still need to get a hose hooked up for LCC this winter. I was definately going to use atleast 1/2" hose but only like 50ft of it.
> 
> What spray guns do you guys use? I could use my Teejet but it tends to leak at the trigger.


The trick is to add Teflon tape! We used a Regular metal spray gun with the 4 positions like straight stream, fan,etc... Add a mini Ball valve between the end of the hose and the spray gun and you're good!


----------



## Tbrothers

deicepro;1415628 said:


> Which one did you buy??? If its the one I'm thinking of...its 220gpm


it a the honda gc 160 with the pacer pump, 5hp 200gpm bought it at tractor supply.I'm thinking that I should shorten my hose. I pulled it off today and it looked fine might try a different gun first then if that doesn't work, then shorten the hose alittle. I'm using the lesco lawn spray gun that came with the hose reel.


----------



## DodgeBlizzard

For every foot of hose, you can figure on losing a pound of pressure. 200' of hose = about 200 psi less. Want more volume, go bigger diameter hose or bigger pump.


----------



## DodgeBlizzard

3/8" hose is your problem.


----------



## firelwn82

magnatrac;1415074 said:


> What are you talking about ? Your a fire man you should know about friction loss. It's insane on hose depending on diameter and fittings ?
> 
> , shaun


DUDE...... What was I thinking..... I'm glade I went to bed shortly after posting this non-sense of stupidity.......  Your hose is way to long. Who are you trying to impress Ron Jeremy???? lol..... Sorry for the bad info but Dodgeblizzard answered you 1000%. Go larger diameter hose and shorter length, Also you may try closing your circulation gate valve down which in turn will build pressure in your line.


----------



## Plow man Foster

firelwn82;1416142 said:


> DUDE...... What was I thinking..... I'm glade I went to bed shortly after posting this non-sense of stupidity.......  Your hose is way to long. Who are you trying to impress Ron Jeremy???? lol..... Sorry for the bad info but Dodgeblizzard answered you 1000%. Go larger diameter hose and shorter length, Also *you may try closing your circulation gate valve down* which in turn will build pressure in your line.


thats a good idea! i should add a valve there on mine! 
gotta be careful doing this if you have a gas pump. I used to have a on-demand pump where it only came on once you opened the trigger! yes my old pump was electric!


----------



## Tbrothers

sounds like i'll shorten the hose and see if that works. I did close the valve going back to the tank and it didn't really change that much. If the shorter hose doesn't work then I'll go bigger dia. the hose reel was used to spray lawns but it had a high pressure pump on it but it only put out 11 gpm so I switched it for a differnt pump.


----------



## firelwn82

Tbrothers;1416382 said:


> the hose reel was used to spray lawns but it had a high pressure pump on it but it only put out 11 gpm so I switched it for a differnt pump.


From what I have learned on this thread or maybe another one by Kubota. Your not really worried to much about the gpm what you need is high volume. So you may want to switch back to the high pressure pump. Right now I'm using a 4hp transfer pump. I think I may switch the motor over to a 6.5 hp pump though. Right now at the pump I'm running about 36psi. If I put on the 50' of 1/2" hose and wand that I want I think i'm going to need more pressure.


----------



## ndnchief

I have a 75 foot 3/4 inch hose on mine and have lots of pressure, running a 5.5 Honda with a 2 inch pump, I think changing you hose length and size is the right move,,,With my pressure set at 30 # , my hose will spray like a garden hose 20 to 30 feet and that is with the tank return valve half open


----------



## Bigrd1

After the snow in Seattle yesterday I'm thinking about making one too!


----------



## firelwn82

I finally used my sprayer last night. Not impressed at all. For a lot that I usually use 2 bags on most occasions and 3 when trying to burn off an inch of powder I think I went through alot of liquid. Yesterday was 44 and rain then rapidly declined to 25 and snowing with 20-30 mph winds. Virtually instant black ice and about 3/8 of an inch of snow accumulated. With this said on my lot that I usually spread 2 bags for something like this I used up about 45 gallons of liquid. Does this sound like the right amount that would normally be used? 
I'm attaching a google map link to try and help with the visual.It is the condo site on the golf course. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=10152...eenview+Ct,+Goodrich,+Michigan+48438&t=h&z=19


----------



## AndersonCS

I'm thinking that w/o knowing dimensions you're pretty close. Liquid does not penetrate through any sort of hard pack very fast so it either takes a lot or in the case of freezing rain changing into snow scenarios you need to time your application out so it's applied right at the point of snow to rain change over so it does not wash into the street.

What liquid product are you using and what is the recommended rate per acre?


----------



## leigh

Firelwn,If you used 45 gals of salt brine = 103 lbs of salt


----------



## firelwn82

leigh;1419587 said:


> Firelwn,If you used 45 gals of salt brine = 103 lbs of salt


Really....... Well then this would be about the correct rate then ay? I'm using 80 lb bags too. Forgot to mention that.


----------



## wizardsr

I was bored this weekend, so I made a gravity feed pre-treater. Works pretty good, just took some 2" PVC, hose, made a frame to support the pvc boom that goes in the receiver hitch, and a 275 gallon IBC tank. Gonna try it out this week hopefully, weather guessers think we're gonna finally get some... I have about 500 gallons of old mag chloride I'm dying to use up so I can try my hand at making some brine or calcium chloride liquid in the off season. Thumbs Up


















PS, before the smarty pants' chime in, I know I'm short a hose clamp...


----------



## Plow man Foster

wizardsr;1452792 said:


> I was bored this weekend, so I made a gravity feed pre-treater. Works pretty good, just took some 2" PVC, hose, made a frame to support the pvc boom that goes in the receiver hitch, and a 275 gallon IBC tank. Gonna try it out this week hopefully, weather guessers think we're gonna finally get some... I have about 500 gallons of old mag chloride I'm dying to use up so I can try my hand at making some brine or calcium chloride liquid in the off season. Thumbs Up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS, before the smarty pants' chime in, I know I'm short a hose clamp...


I couldnt even tell....also is this your only sprayer?


----------



## wizardsr

Plow man Foster;1452885 said:


> I couldnt even tell....also is this your only sprayer?


Yes and no, I have a pre-wetter on one of the spreaders, that's why I have all the extra mag chloride, bought it several years ago for prewetting. But I don't have any other setups for applying directly to the pavement. I rarely use the spreader with the prewetter on it (too small) and I'm using clearlane almost exclusively. The other reason I've been on a liquid "hiatus" is because I got frustrated with the mag separating when it got cold and plugging up the strainers. Hoping to use up the mag with this thing and have better luck making my own calcium or sodium brine.


----------



## IMAGE

wizardsr;1452792 said:


> I was bored this weekend, so I made a gravity feed pre-treater. Works pretty good, just took some 2" PVC, hose, made a frame to support the pvc boom that goes in the receiver hitch, and a 275 gallon IBC tank. Gonna try it out this week hopefully, weather guessers think we're gonna finally get some... I have about 500 gallons of old mag chloride I'm dying to use up so I can try my hand at making some brine or calcium chloride liquid in the off season. Thumbs Up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS, before the smarty pants' chime in, I know I'm short a hose clamp...


Who cares about the hose clamp. Where are the tie-downs!!!! :


----------



## wizardsr

IMAGE;1452917 said:


> Who cares about the hose clamp. Where are the tie-downs!!!! :


Kids... You know I didn't leave the parking lot without it strapped.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Slowly working on my new sprayer. 3 one inch valves, capable of both hard wire quick attach or wireless 4 function controller. Main boom that will spray approx 11' with stream nozzles and L&R at the same time to add an additional 5'. 1 fan spray that will cover 30' @ 7 mph 100 gpa.









Trying a new low profile style tank.......we'll see how this holds up?


----------



## hiranger

Kubota,
Looking good... That will be a nice setup!!!


----------



## Kubota 8540

February and going to go put down gravel for a driveway today? Graded 2 driveways yesterday. This is NUTS! Perhaps I will be able to use my calcium chloride for dust control soon, seeing how I didn't get to use it for snow this winter.


----------



## hiranger

I hear you... The winter was a total joke!!!! I was going to come up and get a couple of more totes but decided to wait because of lack of winter... Kind of glad I been waiting.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I have most of the parts so I might as well start building the LAWN SPRAYER. Looks like I'll need it soon anyway. Any one have ideas as to the gallon size behind a quad?


----------



## 90plow

Maybe a dumb question but i live in new jersey where do you buy liquid calcium? I dont really know how much you buy or how much it costs.


----------



## Kubota 8540

90plow;1461732 said:


> Maybe a dumb question but i live in new jersey where do you buy liquid calcium? I dont really know how much you buy or how much it costs.


Here in Illinois, I buy from Sicalco Ltd. out of Hinsdale, IL. About 75 cents per gallon delivered w/tax. I know there are wells in Michigan for well brine?


----------



## birchwood

Kubota,

I am also interested in setting up a liquid unit this year. The link for the valves wasn't working so couldn't I get some more info on that. I have a tank I think it 250 gals, I've seen gas pumps at Menards. I've seen your nozzles. As for the boom could you put 5-6 tees on 1" pvc pipe with nozzles on the end.

I went to a salt class put on by FS a couple years ago and they where talking about liquid applications and said stream type spraying was better for pre treating so you had wet and dry areas. Is this correct. Would you use a fan type nozzle to spay after you have plowed or to try to melt off an inch of snow or so?


----------



## Kubota 8540

birchwood;1488587 said:


> Kubota,
> 
> I am also interested in setting up a liquid unit this year. The link for the valves wasn't working so couldn't I get some more info on that. I have a tank I think it 250 gals, I've seen gas pumps at Menards. I've seen your nozzles. As for the boom could you put 5-6 tees on 1" pvc pipe with nozzles on the end.
> 
> I went to a salt class put on by FS a couple years ago and they where talking about liquid applications and said stream type spraying was better for pre treating so you had wet and dry areas. Is this correct. Would you use a fan type nozzle to spay after you have plowed or to try to melt off an inch of snow or so?


http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.689.1019 OR http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.689.1019.2208.3865/6272 (I personally like and use these)

If you put a threaded tee you could use a threaded nozzle body ( http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.812.2178 ) with quick attach tips. Or these right on the pvc pipe (http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.812.2178.4037 ) I have tried many different tip types and boom-less nozzles. I prefer single and/or triple solid stream tips for all my spraying needs.


----------



## birchwood

Thanks Kubota, as I get going I may have some more questions thanks for the info.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Going to start (2) new 1035 gallon sprayer builds next week. I will try to post pics as I go this time.


----------



## Metro Lawn

This is ours.






metro-melt.com


----------



## Mike Nelson

Metro I really like the features that offers. 

Would it be possible to purchase just the pump portion and we could connect to a bladder tank?


----------



## Metro Lawn

Mike Nelson;1499995 said:


> Metro I really like the features that offers.
> 
> Would it be possible to purchase just the pump portion and we could connect to a bladder tank?


Yes, the unit is available without a tank for just that application.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Kubota 8540;1496917 said:


> Going to start (2) new 1035 gallon sprayer builds next week. I will try to post pics as I go this time.


OK, I'm off to a flying ....king start. Strictly operating on Murphy's law.

20 days to get (2) 1,235 gallon elliptical tanks. Freight truck shows up, can.t lift tanks from the ends. Pallets are detroyed and held in place with 1 small strap. Had to remove the pallets and debris then slide 450 pound tanks onto a platform on the forks on the skidsteer..

Made my steel list and placed with steel company. HOPEFULLY I will have the steel by Thanksgiving????


----------



## Kubota 8540

Ordered my steel at 4 pm had it the next day at the shop at 4 pm. Started playing with it over the weekend.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Just built this for a Kubota RTV?

















It has a 7 gpm and a 5 gpm 12 volt pumps. 2 broadcast nozzles that spray 5 feet each. Also a hand wand. 2 deep cycle batteries and 65 gallon tank.


----------



## terrapro

Kubota could you remind me why I can't just put 100gal of water in my tank in my truck and throw a mesh bag with 230-250lbs of salt in it in front of the return to make brine? That is the right ratio right?


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1521117 said:


> Kubota could you remind me why I can't just put 100gal of water in my tank in my truck and throw a mesh bag with 230-250lbs of salt in it in front of the return to make brine? That is the right ratio right?


If you direct the flow at the mesh bag, dissolve all or most of it, then test with a hydrometer / salimeter to verify, it might work?

Let me know if it works!


----------



## IMAGE

Kubota 8540;1517843 said:


> Just built this for a Kubota RTV?
> 
> View attachment 117586
> 
> 
> View attachment 117587
> 
> 
> It has a 7 gpm and a 5 gpm 12 volt pumps. 2 broadcast nozzles that spray 5 feet each. Also a hand wand. 2 deep cycle batteries and 65 gallon tank.


Why the 2 pumps? Are they in series or parrallel?

For a simple 7' reciever hitch sprayer what electric pump to you suggest?


----------



## Kubota 8540

IMAGE;1521187 said:


> Why the 2 pumps? Are they in series or parrallel?
> 
> For a simple 7' reciever hitch sprayer what electric pump to you suggest?


I like the 7 gpm and triple stream teejet nozzles. (3 black tips per 7 gpm pump) (5 light blue)

Each pump had it's own battery and it's own spray nozzle (which would spray a 5' fan spray) and approx 5 gpm capability.

The 7 gpm was too much volume to run the hand wand, it would chatter (turn on and off rapidly) when hooked up to the wand.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1521117 said:


> Kubota could you remind me why I can't just put 100gal of water in my tank in my truck and throw a mesh bag with 230-250lbs of salt in it in front of the return to make brine? That is the right ratio right?


I have seen a combo brinemaker/sprayer advertised, it just sounds like problems waiting to happen at all the wrong times?

I like to make my brine and let it set for a while so the suspended solids settle to the bottom of the container. That way they don't find their way to the sprayer nozzles.


----------



## terrapro

Kubota 8540;1521212 said:


> I have seen a combo brinemaker/sprayer advertised, it just sounds like problems waiting to happen at all the wrong times?
> 
> I like to make my brine and let it set for a while so the suspended solids settle to the bottom of the container. That way they don't find their way to the sprayer nozzles.


I don't use nozzles I have 1" pvc booms with holes drilled every 6-7". I do have an inline filter and use electric actuator valves. At second thought though sometimes you can get some gravel in bulk salt which would cause some major problems.

I think I am going to do a version of your 400gal setup, just need to get ahold of some of those totes.

Another question is why the 90/10 mix? Wouldn't the adjustment of the ratio change the freezing point? Say for example a 50/50 mix be good down to 10deg, or does it not work like that?


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1521273 said:


> I don't use nozzles I have 1" pvc booms with holes drilled every 6-7". I do have an inline filter and use electric actuator valves. At second thought though sometimes you can get some gravel in bulk salt which would cause some major problems.
> 
> I think I am going to do a version of your 400gal setup, just need to get ahold of some of those totes.
> 
> Another question is why the 90/10 mix? Wouldn't the adjustment of the ratio change the freezing point? Say for example a 50/50 mix be good down to 10deg, or does it not work like that?


A straight salt brine is fine to use down to a surface temp of approx 17F. It then gets slushy when you spray it. So I played with different mix ratios of 90/10, 80/20, 70/30, 60/40. My conclusion was 60/40 didn't stay mixed for more than a couple hours and I didn't see much difference between it and the rest of the ratios as far as how fast it melted. It did cost more though. For the money I settled with a 90/10 mix of salt brine/calcium chloride. I spray everything with that mix down to about 5F surface temp.


----------



## terrapro

So a higher LCC mix isn't going to effect performance much just cost. Right now I use straight LCC at about $.60 per gal and wouldn't mind atleast halving that. Sometimes when I go out I use so much it makes more sense to just use bulk salt because of material cost. The only thing that keeps me is the fact that equipment cost was minimal compared to a $5k plus Vbox.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1521364 said:


> So a higher LCC mix isn't going to effect performance much just cost. Right now I use straight LCC at about $.60 per gal and wouldn't mind atleast halving that. Sometimes when I go out I use so much it makes more sense to just use bulk salt because of material cost. The only thing that keeps me is the fact that equipment cost was minimal compared to a $5k plus Vbox.


I have used straight cal chloride, but it just seemed overkill for most snow events. My salt brine/ cal chloride 90/10 mix cost me about 17 cents per gallon.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1521373 said:


> I have used straight cal chloride, but it just seemed overkill for most snow events. My salt brine/ cal chloride 90/10 mix cost me about 17 cents per gallon.


Finished up the first batch of brine today, just waiting for a sample to warm up to measure salinity. Do you by chance know where I can get temperature correction for a Salinity hydrometer (4-26%)? Going to mix in the CC this week.

Cheers
Jeff


----------



## Kubota 8540

*Correction Table*

Correction Table

View attachment Correction Table.pdf


----------



## terrapro

Kubota, what do you like better a salinometer or hydrometer? Pros and cons?


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1522823 said:


> Kubota, what do you like better a salinometer or hydrometer? Pros and cons?


From what I know they are all hydrometers. It's just that they have different scales directed at measuring specific liquids. I like to use a 1-2 SG hydrometer for measuring calcium chloride and I prefer to use a Hydrometer -Salimeter - Salt Brine, 0 - 26.5% for measuring salt brine. However you can use a 1-2 SG hydrometer to measure the specific gravity of salt brine.

I have 3 of the hydrometer / salimeters 0 - 26.5% left on a auction on ebay.

Pros for salt brine is less #'s on the 0-26% (personally I think they should have a built in cheater lens and bright light on the glass tube, LOL)

Cons, glass breaks , Poly is to expensive


----------



## terrapro

Hows this one?

http://www.amazon.com/H-B-Instrumen...354047409&sr=1-2&keywords=hydrometer+salinity


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1523016 said:


> Hows this one?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/H-B-Instrumen...354047409&sr=1-2&keywords=hydrometer+salinity


Hows this one? OUT OF STOCK :laughing: With that one you would be measuring saturation of salt. Which means the reading would be something like 88.6%? I think. It would work fine though.


----------



## IMAGE

Kubota 8540;1521210 said:


> I like the 7 gpm and triple stream teejet nozzles. (3 black tips per 7 gpm pump) (5 light blue)
> 
> Each pump had it's own battery and it's own spray nozzle (which would spray a 5' fan spray) and approx 5 gpm capability.
> 
> The 7 gpm was too much volume to run the hand wand, it would chatter (turn on and off rapidly) when hooked up to the wand.


Any specific brand of pump you suggest? Which brand do you use and where do you buy it?


----------



## terrapro

Kubota 8540;1523062 said:


> Hows this one? OUT OF STOCK :laughing: With that one you would be measuring saturation of salt. Which means the reading would be something like 88.6%? I think. It would work fine though.


Lol it wasn't when I first posted. Ok so if that is not the right one what exactly am I looking for without breaking the bank?

Something like this?
http://www.amazon.com/E-C-Kraus-Triple-Scale-Hydrometer/dp/B00838XRSS/ref=pd_sbs_indust_7


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1523092 said:


> Lol it wasn't when I first posted. Ok so if that is not the right one what exactly am I looking for without breaking the bank?
> 
> Something like this?
> http://www.amazon.com/E-C-Kraus-Triple-Scale-Hydrometer/dp/B00838XRSS/ref=pd_sbs_indust_7


Nope. This one is mine. http://www.ebay.com/itm/290818553724?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649

I think these are the easiest to read.

http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.794.5318


----------



## Metro Lawn

Kubota,
How wide is your spray boom on your truck?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Metro Lawn;1523139 said:


> Kubota,
> How wide is your spray boom on your truck?


101" wide and sprays 10-12' on the center zone with 4' on the left and 4' on the right, total about 18-20' with stream nozzles. But I can spray wider if I wanted to.

Same width as mirror to mirror tip.


----------



## Metro Lawn

I was just wondering. I bought one of your units from a sub cheap and had to cut a foot off both sides of the boom. My guys would have caught a pole or a car for sure with that much sticking out of the side.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Metro Lawn;1523172 said:


> I was just wondering. I bought one of your units from a sub cheap and had to cut a foot off both sides of the boom. My guys would have caught a pole or a car for sure with that much sticking out of the side.


I have a guy here that catches stuff with an 80" boom. :laughing: It did keep me busy fixing it though. I will build them whatever size/type they ask for. You must have bought it from a young guy up in Ray, Mi? Thats the only one that I know of or remember in Michigan.

I prefer a 101" so I can see it from my mirrors. The one in my avatar pic has 20 tips and I dabbled with spraying cal chloride for dust control.


----------



## White Gardens

Kubota 8540;1523133 said:


> Nope. This one is mine. http://www.ebay.com/itm/290818553724?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649


And it's all mine! LOL

Ship that sucker as fast as you can please. Thumbs Up

Looks like we have some warmer temps over the weekend and I might get my solution made.

......


----------



## Kubota 8540

White Gardens;1523214 said:


> And it's all mine! LOL
> 
> Ship that sucker as fast as you can please. Thumbs Up
> 
> Looks like we have some warmer temps over the weekend and I might get my solution made.
> 
> ......


I will have it in the mail tomorrow morning. Seeing how our mail goes to Bloomington to be sorted you should have Thurs at the latest.

I still have 2 more.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I bought half a dozen of them last fall. The supplier told me there was 3 manufacturers of these hydrometers and 2 of them went out of business. He only had 6 in stock at the time and didnt know when he would have more. I havent called him back to check, but I see every where else doubled or tripled their prices.

But who knows.... maybe he just got me to buy all 6?


----------



## terrapro

I am picking up some 55gal drums tomorrow hopefully and will put together a crude version of a 100gal mixer. I'll take pics if my camera is working...


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1523262 said:


> I will have it in the mail tomorrow morning. Seeing how our mail goes to Bloomington to be sorted you should have Thurs at the latest.
> 
> I still have 2 more.


Had I known a week ago I woulda bought one. Just bought this one: 
http://www.coleparmer.ca/Product/Du..._Nacl_0_2_Div_300mm_L_0_2_Acrylic/RK-08298-45


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1523297 said:


> Had I known a week ago I woulda bought one. Just bought this one:
> http://www.coleparmer.ca/Product/Du..._Nacl_0_2_Div_300mm_L_0_2_Acrylic/RK-08298-45


I just listed another one. Let me know how you like the polycarbonate instead of the glass ones. I seem to forget I stuck it in my back pocket. The glass ones are FRAGILE !


----------



## White Gardens

Kubota 8540;1523301 said:


> I just listed another one. Let me know how you like the polycarbonate instead of the glass ones. I seem to forget I stuck it in my back pocket. The glass ones are FRAGILE !


Ooooooo, if you've got a poly one, that would be much better. Less chance of breakage. Don't know if you're able to switch my order or not?????

.....


----------



## Kubota 8540

White Gardens;1523332 said:


> Ooooooo, if you've got a poly one, that would be much better. Less chance of breakage. Don't know if you're able to switch my order or not?????
> 
> .....


Wish I had some? Polys are $70+ and I'm too tight to fork that much out for 1 hydrometer. I figure I can break a couple of these for the price of 1 of those.


----------



## White Gardens

Kubota 8540;1523340 said:


> Wish I had some? Polys are $70+ and I'm too tight to fork that much out for 1 hydrometer. I figure I can break a couple of these for the price of 1 of those.


Doh! I'll just have to take care of it.

If we have any year like last year, I should only got through one tote of brine for pre-wetting salt.

..........


----------



## Kubota 8540

White Gardens;1523343 said:


> Doh! I'll just have to take care of it.
> 
> If we have any year like last year, I should only got through one tote of brine for pre-wetting salt.
> 
> ..........


Well I hope your wrong and you go thru 20 totes of brine.


----------



## White Gardens

Kubota 8540;1523349 said:


> Well I hope your wrong and you go thru 20 totes of brine.


Not holding my breath considering it's supposed to be almost 70 here next Sunday.

.......


----------



## birchwood

Kubota 8540;1523301 said:


> I just listed another one. Let me know how you like the polycarbonate instead of the glass ones. I seem to forget I stuck it in my back pocket. The glass ones are FRAGILE !


Just bought one hope to get it before the weekend, made a batch 2 weeks ago, but really needed a quality hydrometer to get a good reading.


----------



## Kubota 8540

birchwood;1523428 said:


> Just bought one hope to get it before the weekend, made a batch 2 weeks ago, but really needed a quality hydrometer to get a good reading.


Shipping label has already been printed and will be mailed tomorrow morning A.C. (after coffee)


----------



## Kubota 8540

Remember.......these hydrometers are calibrated for reading liquids with a temp of 60F. If your brine temp is cooler than 60F you have to use the chart with the hydrometer. For brine that is 50F deduct approx .75 from your reading. For brine that is 40F deduct 1.5 from your reading.


----------



## birchwood

Here are some pics of my brine maker and sprayer, still need to make a few adjustments.

Put a few unions in it so I can move the pump between the maker and sprayer and to fill the sprayer.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I'm thinking one of these in the tank of the brinemaker would be handy. http://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/9506


----------



## Metro Lawn

Kubota 8540;1523188 said:


> I have a guy here that catches stuff with an 80" boom. :laughing: It did keep me busy fixing it though. I will build them whatever size/type they ask for. You must have bought it from a young guy up in Ray, Mi? Thats the only one that I know of or remember in Michigan.
> 
> I prefer a 101" so I can see it from my mirrors. The one in my avatar pic has 20 tips and I dabbled with spraying cal chloride for dust control.


Ahern contracting is who I got it from. Said he bought it on eBay. We build our own, but I could not buy the parts for what he sold the unit for. My 3 issues with it are the boom size (now fixed), The location of the motor requires me to remove my tailgate or melt my bedliner, and no hose connection for walks (also fixed), Otherwise for 900 it was a good deal.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Metro Lawn;1523537 said:


> Ahern contracting is who I got it from. Said he bought it on eBay. We build our own, but I could not buy the parts for what he sold the unit for. My 3 issues with it are the boom size (now fixed), The location of the motor requires me to remove my tailgate or melt my bedliner, and no hose connection for walks (also fixed), Otherwise for 900 it was a good deal.


Yes that was him. I even delivered to him, which he paid for also. Dropped it off at his place, took his money to Angelo's and hauled back a Stainless spreader. All in a day. As well as I remember that was a basic setup and the last of the dry boom sprayers. $900 definitely would not buy the parts.

No tailgate standard down here. We all alternate between spreaders and sprayers. Around here a sprayer won't last a day before an 80" boom is cannibalized and turned into at least a 100" or added to in some way. Also around here NOBODY likes to have straight cal chloride or well brine sprayed on their lots, thats why we use salt brine/cal chloride mix. Melts and dries just like salt, without the crystals and they love it. Also prefer it in their request. Until this past winter no one even considered using liquids on sidewalks. Strange how different areas use different liquids and different setups.

I worked on one your sprayers for a small contractor down here. I tried to unrestrict the electric valves and used 3/4" fittings and hoses instead of the 1/2" to the boom. Added some triple teejet tips so he could increase gpa and his spraying speed. It also helped the flow to the side tips. It helped and accomplished what I needed to, but your sprayer is restricted from the tank to the pump on the suction side. I realize there isn't much room inside the skid for the plumbing. He is using salt brine/cal chloride mix, and needed a little more volume than straight well brine requires. He liked the results, but now is having issues with the tank cracking. Told him he had 2 options, replace the tank or try one of those tank repair kits(plastic welding). Havent heard back from him yet.

Like the remote setup, now if only electric start, choke and throttle could be added, LOL


----------



## Kubota 8540

This is just one of those for what its worth statements. A sprayer is not just a sprayer. They are generally built with a particular chemical or purpose in mind. I have seen Ag sprayers being used for spraying liquid deicers and their owners frustrated by lack of results. An Ag sprayer is some times set up only to spray approx 8 gallons per acre.Naturally the results would not be adequate. Some are setup to spray cal chloride, which will require less gallons per acre than salt brine. Just something to keep in mind. Cheaper or available is not always the best answer.


----------



## Metro Lawn

Kubota 8540;1523614 said:


> Yes that was him. I even delivered to him, which he paid for also. Dropped it off at his place, took his money to Angelo's and hauled back a Stainless spreader. All in a day. As well as I remember that was a basic setup and the last of the dry boom sprayers. $900 definitely would not buy the parts.
> 
> No tailgate standard down here. We all alternate between spreaders and sprayers. Around here a sprayer won't last a day before an 80" boom is cannibalized and turned into at least a 100" or added to in some way. Also around here NOBODY likes to have straight cal chloride or well brine sprayed on their lots, thats why we use salt brine/cal chloride mix. Melts and dries just like salt, without the crystals and they love it. Also prefer it in their request. Until this past winter no one even considered using liquids on sidewalks. Strange how different areas use different liquids and different setups.
> 
> I worked on one your sprayers for a small contractor down here. I tried to unrestrict the electric valves and used 3/4" fittings and hoses instead of the 1/2" to the boom. Added some triple teejet tips so he could increase gpa and his spraying speed. It also helped the flow to the side tips. It helped and accomplished what I needed to, but your sprayer is restricted from the tank to the pump on the suction side. I realize there isn't much room inside the skid for the plumbing. He is using salt brine/cal chloride mix, and needed a little more volume than straight well brine requires. He liked the results, but now is having issues with the tank cracking. Told him he had 2 options, replace the tank or try one of those tank repair kits(plastic welding). Havent heard back from him yet.
> 
> Like the remote setup, now if only electric start, choke and throttle could be added, LOL


We offer all those items now. It sounds like he has one of the original units. There have been alot of changes through the years.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Yes he has had it for 3-4+ years I guess? Originally sprayed well brine all the time and it worked fine, but when he switched over to salt brine/cal chloride mix in order to cut cost he just wasn't getting the volume and speed he wanted. So I been trying to help him and point him in the right direction. Tanks always seem to be the issue. I'm still trying to find the ideal one. Something easy to ship, store and install. I think I'm going to try this one next. 300 gallon 2.0 S.G.


----------



## MF 5455

Hi Everyone..

New here, but also ready to get my feet wet in the spraying for my snow removal.

Question I pose...

I have MF 5455 tractor / loader with 9' x 17' snow pusher blade as one piece of equipment.
I would like at this time to start the spray application. I was talking with a supplier of 3 point hitch ag sprayers in Pa., and pin pointing some options for the sprayer. 

What are some opinions on this type of sprayer ? I am making some modifications.
I don't see any threads on here about this type of system ???? Just wondering ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1526321 said:


> Hi Everyone..
> 
> New here, but also ready to get my feet wet in the spraying for my snow removal.
> 
> Question I pose...
> 
> I have MF 5455 tractor / loader with 9' x 17' snow pusher blade as one piece of equipment.
> I would like at this time to start the spray application. I was talking with a supplier of 3 point hitch ag sprayers in Pa., and pin pointing some options for the sprayer.
> 
> What are some opinions on this type of sprayer ? I am making some modifications.
> I don't see any threads on here about this type of system ???? Just wondering ?


1) What is the weight rating of your 3 point?
1a) What size tank do you want?
2) Do you have pto?
2a) What speed is it?
3) Do you have available useable remote hydraulics?
4) What kind of liquid are you going to spray?
5) How big are the areas you going to spray?
5a) What is the narrowest width you need to spray?
5b) What is the widest width you need to spray? 
6) Going to be switching rear implements often?
7) Do you have another pump system to fill your 3 point sprayer?
8) Do you want in cab controls or will you be able to reach out the back window?

Just wondering, Or maybe just curious.

I built my own and loved it. I used pto & mechanical controls and was able to reach out the back window. Would probably build it differently if I had to do again.


----------



## MF 5455

Hi...
To answer some questions.

My Massey Ferguson 5455 is around 105 hp.
I believe the 3 point rating is around 3900lb.
Yes it has pto...2 speed. 540 and 1000.
I have 2 sets of remote hydraulic ports available on rear of tractor.
Approx. I have 6-8 acres to spray.
The narrowest width would be 10' and the widest 25-35' The tractor rear wheels are 84" outside to outside.
I will not switch rear implements often, although I do have a 3 point fertilizer spreader I have for spreading granular salt.
I have spoken to sprayer manufacturer about the option of installing 3 way valve for the ability to fill my own tank without another system.
I also requested the option in the pricing of in cab electric controls to run the valves. One for the main boom, the other 2 for the boomless tips on either end.

Thanks


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1526572 said:


> Hi...
> To answer some questions.
> 
> My Massey Ferguson 5455 is around 105 hp.
> I believe the 3 point rating is around 3900lb.
> Yes it has pto...2 speed. 540 and 1000.
> I have 2 sets of remote hydraulic ports available on rear of tractor.
> Approx. I have 6-8 acres to spray.
> The narrowest width would be 10' and the widest 25-35' The tractor rear wheels are 84" outside to outside.
> I will not switch rear implements often, although I do have a 3 point fertilizer spreader I have for spreading granular salt.
> I have spoken to sprayer manufacturer about the option of installing 3 way valve for the ability to fill my own tank without another system.
> I also requested the option in the pricing of in cab electric controls to run the valves. One for the main boom, the other 2 for the boomless tips on either end.
> 
> Thanks


Personally I would want a hydraulic driven pump, so no pto shaft. Electric in cab controls.Quick attach set up for both spreader and sprayer. Although that does add length to the 3 point arm length. 3 way valve was what I was getting at so you can self fill from any source. main boom with boomless tips sounds good. 200 gallon tank on back of the Kubota 8540 was plenty of weight and I had hydraulic assist on the 3 point. 200 gallons is approx 2200 pounds + the weight of the sprayer. Sold the Kubota it went up to Canada, now speaks French I think.

This was mine..... http://www.plowsite.com/album.php?albumid=491&pictureid=3293


----------



## MF 5455

HI... 
The Kubota was set up nice....just wrong color. lol

I welded together a frame last year and housed a concrete block which is 2x2x4 feet it weighed around 2000lb. plus maybe 150 for weigh of frame. Tractor handled it well. Blade on front weighs approx. 1600lbs. So the ballast on rear was good counter weight.

When I figure how to add pic here, I will show one of the MF with pusher on it.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1526613 said:


> HI...
> The Kubota was set up nice....just wrong color. lol
> 
> I welded together a frame last year and housed a concrete block which is 2x2x4 feet it weighed around 2000lb. plus maybe 150 for weigh of frame. Tractor handled it well. Blade on front weighs approx. 1600lbs. So the ballast on rear was good counter weight.
> 
> When I figure how to add pic here, I will show one of the MF with pusher on it.


Yes the color wasn't green. But they wanted $20,000 more greens for the green one I wanted. So orange worked just fine.


----------



## Kubota 8540

After owning and plowing with it for 3 winters I now know exactly the features I want in a new tractor.


----------



## MF 5455

Haha.. not green my friend...RED !!! The green machine is more $$$.

I am choosing a pto pump, I believe it's called the silver series ??? It will outlast the cast iron pump by many hours. I think the cast is rated for 140 hours before problems....the silver series around 2000 hrs.


----------



## MF 5455

I actually looked seriously at the Kubota. The only thing I didn't like was the transmission set up.. Too much shifting gears for me. Too old for that. The Massey is like a shuttle. No clutching. 4 gears with 4 speeds 16 total. Lots of variation at the flick of the joystick.


----------



## Kubota 8540

When you want to add a pic, click go advanced. When that page comes up, toward the bottom it says Manage attachments. Click that to Browse your computer for the pic you want. Then click upload. Once you get there, the little paper clip at the top of where your typing adds the pic to your post.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Yep on the trans setup. Too much shifting even though I had the hydraulic shuttle for forward / reverse. I would want a longer wheel base also. Smoother ride.


----------



## MF 5455

Ok. Thanks for help there. May have to get my better half to help me !!!

You can go to my website as well if you want....jramsayconstruction.ca

There are a few pics there of some of our equipment.


----------



## Kubota 8540

It was a great tractor though. Sure footed on snow / ice and hillside driveways. It would go absolutely anywhere. A little light weight for summer pulling use.


----------



## MF 5455

I have 2 options for materials to spray.

First one is the Eco-Melt ??? I think it's called. A bit pricey.....75/liter. That's 42.84 gal. there.
2nd option is....mag. chloride and calc. chloride together. .25/liter. That's .94 gal there.

I am to meet with sales person concerning the cheaper materisal this week to learn more. I believe it's a 30/70 mix...not sure which way though....lol


----------



## Kubota 8540

I guess what you spray does depend on what you're spraying it on and also what the customer might request? I'm constantly amazed at the difference in pricing up your way. I pay approx 60 cents per gallon for calcium chloride here. I guess thats why I spray salt brine and calcium chloride blend for 17 cents per gallon. LOL


----------



## MF 5455

Yes sir.. It's very socialist country here. A person is at risk of trusting anyone. I must figure out by experiment how much the cost will be versus the old way of v-box with sand salt mix.


----------



## MF 5455

I used twice as much material last year because of all the freezing rain we got. Not much snow. I plowed 7 times last winter. Spent most of time in truck spreading material.

Would like to perhaps mix my own materials. I will discuss this with the rep this week.

An 80 lb bag of rock salt here is $10.00 I did manage to buy bulk bagged from distributor in Nova Scotia. Old stock, but only $5.00 bag.


----------



## MF 5455

I want to do the pre-wetting application, than spray the material also coming from v-box spreader with an on truck tank and perhaps electric pump with simple solenoid.


----------



## MF 5455

Ooops... I said 42.00 / gal. I meant $2.84 / gal


----------



## Kubota 8540

It sounds like your on the right track. Experimentation is the key. Thats how I settled on spraying a 90/10 blend of salt brine and calcium chloride. As far as I know its the cheapest liquid I can make/get around here and works perfect. At $0.17 per gallon it only cost me $17 to treat an acre lot.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I havent had time to set up the spray at the spinner yet but I will eventually.


----------



## MF 5455

Yes sir. That is reasonably priced material. No wells being drilled in this area. No salt brine available like that. I think the calc. chloride is being shipped in from Michigan to our area. If there's not much price difference between the dry and mixing to the premixed, I may buy buy quantity to cut down on cost. I really don't have any customers on board yet to pay for this, but if I'm careful, there may not be much difference in cost. The new equipment would of course be taken into consideration. A triaxle load of sand / salt mix here is $1,200.00 It is a good quality coarse sand. A salt mixed with a beet juice solution is $150.00 per yard if I pick it up.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Check this out. This is one of mine. 



 I make my own salt brine, ends up costing me 8-10 cents per gallon?
You could make something like this and make your own brine?


----------



## MF 5455

That is a very nice clip of making brine. Maybe I just might make my own...lets say, try.

I need some storage tank capacity. I can purchase the totes, they are $75.00 each. Perhaps I could make enough to sell to others. The gig here is that my competition is selling the geo-melt saying it will not hurt the environment, lawn areas, etc. Not sure how the salt mix will go over. I just need to get pump, few fittings, totes and get to work.  Can I make this during the cold weather ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Can be made at any temp. But when dealing with water best if its above 32F? Other wise its ice cubing or a PITA.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Once its made or mixed right, your good down to -6F


----------



## Kubota 8540

Geo melts home base is about 30 minutes from me. As well as I remember it is a mix of 80% salt brine 15% beet juice and 5% calcium chloride.


----------



## Kubota 8540

TOOOOOO expensive for me.


----------



## Kubota 8540

GEO S liquid, a blend of 50% GEOMELT and 50% salt brine

SC 316 liquid, a blend of 30% GEOMELT, 10% calcium chloride, and 60% salt brine

M/2 liquid, a blend of 80% GEOMELT and 20% magnesium chloride, a pre-wet for sand/salt mixtures

GEOMELT® is a sugar beet-based accelerator that improves the melting capabilities of salt and is a replacement for calcium chloride and corn syrup-based treatments. Often referred to as “beet juice,”


----------



## Kubota 8540

OOPs...80% salt brine 15% beet juice and 5% calcium chloride is called Super Mix developed by Illinois Dept of Transportation.

Supposedly the best bang for the buck so to speak


----------



## MF 5455

I should be able to use the rock salt I purchased in 80 lb. bags and mix my own brine ???

If so, maybe I should buy more and keep it under roof for later use. $5.00 per bag is half of what one has to pay at box store. I have 300 bags sitting now. Some of that will be used for v-box, but I could purchase more.

I like the idea of making my own....a person feels independent from the vultures. :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

If I figure correctly, I could make 400 gallon with the rock salt @ $5.00 per 80 lb bag for .16-.17 cents per gallon ????

That would be good. That would be a savings of .75 cents / gal. if I purchase at .95 cents per gallon from supplier.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1526783 said:


> I should be able to use the rock salt I purchased in 80 lb. bags and mix my own brine ???
> 
> If so, maybe I should buy more and keep it under roof for later use. $5.00 per bag is half of what one has to pay at box store. I have 300 bags sitting now. Some of that will be used for v-box, but I could purchase more.
> 
> I like the idea of making my own....a person feels independent from the vultures. :laughing:


 independent from the vultures .... Couldn't be said any better than that. Thats why I'm there.payup


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1526788 said:


> If I figure correctly, I could make 400 gallon with the rock salt @ $5.00 per 80 lb bag for .16-.17 cents per gallon ????
> 
> That would be good. That would be a savings of .75 cents / gal. if I purchase at .95 cents per gallon from supplier.


$0.15625 to be exact...:laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Haha...

what happens to mixture when temp falls below -6 F ?

Will this brine stay good over the summer ?

If so, does it need to be sheltered from the suns rays ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

That brinemaker uses 1,000 pounds to make 400 gallons of salt brine. I then add 40 gallons of 32% calcium chloride liquid to it. That gives you approx a 90/10 mixture. I spray at every surface temp down to about +5F. Below that I spray calcium chloride. Once you make that brinemaker you end up thinking about this one....



 :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Haha...

I watched that clip already. Very impressive. Does that one belong to you also ?


----------



## MF 5455

The direct liquid application for treating abrasives. Is the same material used, or something entirely different ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1526801 said:


> Haha...
> 
> what happens to mixture when temp falls below -6 F ? Don't know? I know after I add the 10% volume of cal chloride, it doesn't freeze.
> 
> Will this brine stay good over the summer ? I have some 2 year old brine that is still aging in the totes and bulk tanks and its fine. Ready to use without being stirred or anything.
> 
> If so, does it need to be sheltered from the suns rays ?


Ocean seems fine being shined on all the time and its salt water too? I have a 3,000 gallon tank outside and its just fine.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1526805 said:


> Haha...
> 
> I watched that clip already. Very impressive. Does that one belong to you also ?


Yes it did. Sold it to a contractor in Connecticut. A big liquid dealer from Indiana brought his video equipment down to my place after I told him it would make 850 gallons in under 20 minutes with no salt leftover in the bottom of the tanks and nothing to dump out. Guess he didnt believe me.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1526808 said:


> The direct liquid application for treating abrasives. Is the same material used, or something entirely different ?


From what I have done with my salt sand piles I used the same liquid. It does have a tendency to run to the bottom of the pile after a few hours of sitting. But if you used the same liquid at the spinner it should work very well.


----------



## Kubota 8540

With the geomelt they offered a different blend for treating the sand pile. Just too pricey for me.


----------



## MF 5455

Thank you, sir.

Your expertise and knowledge I am very grateful for.

I am going to start this coming week to purchase some items needed. 

I do know a business that sells the poly tanks. Don't know the prices, but purchased a 2 compartment 800 gallon septic tank this summer for a special application and it was $800.00 . I don't need that particular one, but something to hold some volume. 

BTW... for our business needs we presently own

2011 MF 5455 tractor / loader
2011 gmc 2500 hd 6.6 duramax / 8.2 boss plow
2005 gmc 3500 flat bed dually 6.6 duramax / 9.2 boss plow
2001 bobcat 773 / 8' snow bucket, 9' x 13' pusher blade, post hole auger / 4 bits, pallet forks, several buckets.
2011 308 Cat excavator / 4' hyd. ditching bucket, 2', 3' digging buckets.
2000 Freightliner 10 ton dump truck
2011 Loadstar....12 ton trailer
2001 bobcat 337 excavator / 4 buckets.

Perhaps you can relate your line of work other than making salt brine. :salute:


----------



## MF 5455

....and, 

2 air flo v-box salt spreaders
800 lb. 3 point fertilizer spreader for MF tractor.

Too many toys, toooooo much $$$$ for insurance.:realmad:


----------



## MF 5455

Hi Kubota

You previously mentioned that 200 gallons would weigh 2200 lb ??? Does this mean that this liquid is 11lbs. / gal ??? I figured at 7 lbs. / gal would be 1400 lbs ??? Just curious, if so, I need to double check my 3 point ratings and decide if this much liquid is ok hanging out there.

Do you thin the pto driven pump, (not a shaft drive) is sufficient to do the volume needed for this spray ?

If I go with a dry boom, what would you consider to be proper diameter of header hose or manifold to supply the main boom nozzles ? The boomless nozzles ?


----------



## terrapro

Calcium chloride is around 11.86lbs per gal.


----------



## MF 5455

Hi 

Ok... didn't realize this. This won't deter me from my plans, just make some adjustments perhaps. 

I believe my 3 point is rated at 3900 lbs., so should be ok..

8800 lb. tractor, 1800 lb. snow pusher on front, 2400 lb. sprayer on rear...like a freight train going through the parking lot. :laughing:


----------



## leigh

MF 5455;1526838 said:



> ....and,
> 
> 2 air flo v-box salt spreaders
> 800 lb. 3 point fertilizer spreader for MF tractor.
> 
> Too many toys, toooooo much $$$$ for insurance.:realmad:


I hear you! Just sold my international 4700, one bobcat,backhoe attach,root grapple,sweeper,etc.Figure I can take a month off with just insurance/registrtion costs!


----------



## MF 5455

Yes sir !!! Gotta have $5 million liability here to do most any jobs. Plus insurance for all the equipment in case of....well, whatever could happen. :realmad: 

One reason I want to do same or more work with fewer pieces of equip. I feel adapting over to the liquid application for slick surfaces could be done as I plow my parking lots. and maybe, just maybe cut back on fuel costs..Diesel here is $4.75 / gal for on road, and dyed diesel is $3.86/ gal.


----------



## terrapro

MF 5455;1527349 said:


> Yes sir !!! Gotta have $5 million liability here to do most any jobs. Plus insurance for all the equipment in case of....well, whatever could happen. :realmad:
> 
> One reason I want to do same or more work with fewer pieces of equip. I feel adapting over to the liquid application for slick surfaces could be done *as I plow my parking lots*. and maybe, just maybe cut back on fuel costs..Diesel here is $4.75 / gal for on road, and dyed diesel is $3.86/ gal.


I love being able to spray and plow at the same time, make a pass while spraying and go to make another and your last passis melted and bare pavement already!


----------



## MF 5455

I understand.

How long have you been spraying, and with what type of equipment ? Do you pre-wet before the storm, or spray after you clean up ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1527390 said:


> I understand.
> 
> How long have you been spraying, and with what type of equipment ? Do you pre-wet before the storm, or spray after you clean up ?


Both for me.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1527191 said:


> Hi Kubota
> 
> You previously mentioned that 200 gallons would weigh 2200 lb ??? Does this mean that this liquid is 11lbs. / gal ??? I figured at 7 lbs. / gal would be 1400 lbs ??? Just curious, if so, I need to double check my 3 point ratings and decide if this much liquid is ok hanging out there.
> 
> Do you thin the pto driven pump, (not a shaft drive) is sufficient to do the volume needed for this spray ?
> 
> If I go with a dry boom, what would you consider to be proper diameter of header hose or manifold to supply the main boom nozzles ? The boomless nozzles ?


Boomless = http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.816 Boom buster, boom extenders or the feild jet fan spray works well. 3/4" would be plenty for hose size. I used the silvercast 7560? pto driven at 1,000 rpm was plenty. Just dont like hooking up the pto shaft. Much easier to plug / unplug hoses.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Salt brine is 8.33 water + 2.3 salt = 10.63 + 10% cal chloride ? About 11 pounds per gallon


----------



## MF 5455

Ok.

Didn't realize the liquid weight was that much.

The sprayer I'm looking at doesn't have a pto shaft. The pump slides on to the shaft ???..if I'm correct. Is the hydraulic pump quite more expensive ? Does seem like an easier route though, especially when you must make a hookup during a cold snowstorm...lol


----------



## MF 5455

From the link to Dultmeier catalog, do you have a preference from experience on which boomless tip sprays perhaps better for you ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1527440 said:


> From the link to Dultmeier catalog, do you have a preference from experience on which boomless tip sprays perhaps better for you ?


No preference with any of those 3. Price, availability, and size needed dictates which I buy.


----------



## MF 5455

Ok Trying to learn how to upload pics here.


----------



## Kubota 8540

you did fine. But its red.....:laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Pic of Dump Truck and Salt Spreader.


----------



## MF 5455

Haha... U r very funny...almost pass for a comedian..:laughing::laughing:

I didn't know they made any other colors available.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1527505 said:


> Haha... U r very funny...almost pass for a comedian..:laughing::laughing:
> 
> I didn't know they made any other colors available.


You know how I judge whether its a good truck , tractor or piece of equipment?

It made me a lot of money.


----------



## MF 5455

My faithful 'ol bobcat with snow bucket


----------



## MF 5455

One of my plow trucks...01 Chevy 2500 hd


----------



## MF 5455

Yes sir.

Do you use same material mix for treating your bulk salt...sand/salt mix, as you do for spraying ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1527518 said:


> Yes sir.
> 
> Do you use same material mix for treating your bulk salt...sand/salt mix, as you do for spraying ?


Yes, I have sprayed my salt sand pile before but it tends to run to the bottom of the pile if you don't use it in a day or so.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Eventually I will get my truck spreader set up to spray at the spinner, I think that would be best way.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Spraying the pile makes the material kind of wet and sticky so it doesn't go thru the spreader real well


----------



## MF 5455

I agree.

I plan to work on that this week also. Looking at some 12 volt pumps on line today. Gonna keep this simple as possible. Small tank, pump. Run hose with to back of spreader with tip and attach to area out of way. Probably should have an in line filter somewhere to catch any debris. How do you filter or strain your liquid after mixing it ?


----------



## MF 5455

Meant to say "with tip" to back of spreader. I'm wondering if a fan spray would work best if it is mounted fairly close to spinner. Might cover more area ?


----------



## MF 5455

I feel like I'm running out of time for these projects... keep getting calls for excavation jobs. 2 new ones for this week. Whatever it takes to pay the bills, I guess


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1527539 said:


> I agree.
> 
> I plan to work on that this week also. Looking at some 12 volt pumps on line today. Gonna keep this simple as possible. Small tank, pump. Run hose with to back of spreader with tip and attach to area out of way. Probably should have an in line filter somewhere to catch any debris. How do you filter or strain your liquid after mixing it ?


A lot of people might not believe this, but I DO NOT filter any of my brine. I mix it, pump it to my totes, let it set for a day or two, gravity filters mine. Heavy settles to the bottom of the tote , then I pump off the top of the tote with a suction tube suspended about 3 inches off the bottom. I had a strainer filter on the suction side of MY brinemaker, but sold my brinemaker to a guy with a handful of cash. Haven't built myself a new one yet.

So as I test out the brinemakers I build the brine has to go somewhere. So it goes in MY storage tanks. I don't build them with a filter, only if asked to do so.


----------



## MF 5455

This is what makes me the most $$$$.

308 Cat 308D


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1527544 said:


> I feel like I'm running out of time for these projects... keep getting calls for excavation jobs. 2 new ones for this week. Whatever it takes to pay the bills, I guess


Don't have a brinemaker right now and A guy from a city d.o.t. in Kentucky is coming this week to buy my new sprayer.


----------



## Kubota 8540

That is a nice size excavator. What does it weigh?


----------



## MF 5455

Haha. Best way. Have to keep the cash flow going.

I have seen some salt that is pretty dirty... small pebbles etc. mixed in with it. The bagged bulk salt I just purchased isn't real big stuff. Seems more powdery or small. Not sure if it has broken down from sitting ??? or not. Should dissolve quicker perhaps if it's smaller.


----------



## MF 5455

The 308 weighs 8 and half metric tonne dry. With bucket, fuel and oils around 19,000lbs.

It makes that little Cummins work when towing it.

I have hydraulic breaker for it as well. It does a nice job


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1527561 said:


> Haha. Best way. Have to keep the cash flow going.
> 
> I have seen some salt that is pretty dirty... small pebbles etc. mixed in with it. The bagged bulk salt I just purchased isn't real big stuff. Seems more powdery or small. Not sure if it has broken down from sitting ??? or not. Should dissolve quicker perhaps if it's smaller.


Sounds perfect for making brine.


----------



## MF 5455

Picture of my 2 bobcats working together. I purchased both new in 2001. Both have the Kubota engines. Excellent quality, pure preventive maintenance is all required.

They have both paid for themselves many xxxx's


----------



## Kubota 8540

I have done a bunch of digging with the 335, it had an extend-a-hoe on it. Nice machine.


----------



## MF 5455

Yes... good machines, but hydraulic system is set up the old way. You can't hardly do 2 things at once with them, and quite jerky. Very powerful though. I have broken the root system of 2 foot dia. trees and pulled out the stumps. Breakout force on boom and stick is great for a machine that size. The 337 is a 50 h.p. model. Digging depth of 12'6". It weighs around 10,000 lb. The skid loader has same engine but turbo....makes it a 56 h.p.


----------



## magneto259

I got my first gen sprayer done and spraying water the other day! I'm gonna try to post a pic of it later. I can get mineral brine locally for .10 cents a gallon. I was possibly thinking of making my own. This forum helped me do it. Thanks all!


----------



## MF 5455

Congrats on the new sprayer. Hope it works well for you, and you are able to reduce the costs of de icing, while making new contacts and winter contracts.


----------



## Kubota 8540

magneto259;1527823 said:


> I got my first gen sprayer done and spraying water the other day! I'm gonna try to post a pic of it later. I can get mineral brine locally for .10 cents a gallon. I was possibly thinking of making my own. This forum helped me do it. Thanks all!


We helped? OH MY! :laughing:

Good luck and post some pics and results as time goes by.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Forgot to take pics of the first sprayer for the city project. Here are a couple of the steel skid (in primer coat) for the second 1,235 gallon hydraulic driven pump single lane sprayer.


----------



## magneto259

I give all you guys the credit. I just used your ideas.


----------



## magneto259

Im gonna redo the spray bar probably this weekend. Like to do that remote control valve so I don't have to run back and forth from the cab of the truck.


----------



## Kubota 8540

http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.689.1019.2207.3905/3493 This is a 3 way I have used many times. It works very nice. The flow goes thru the valve back to the tank normally, then when you flick the switch it directs the flow to the spray bar.


----------



## magneto259

Hell yeah thanks!


----------



## terrapro

You need a T up there on the exit of the pump to recirculate or else you will kill your pump. Or the 3-way electric valve like Kubota suggested. I use a poppet valve not a ball, the ball valves are better. Other than that it looks just like mine for the most part!

Looks like a money maker, what did you spend $500-$600?

Oh yeah make a couple extra pvc booms so when you break one you have an extra.


----------



## magneto259

I didnt have much in it at all. I already had the pump. The tank was $50 and the plumbing parts about $20 or so. I have another cap for the tank that would allow me to recirculate. I didn't think it would be too hard on it, if I was quick to open the valve.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Another one.....


----------



## terrapro

magneto259;1528330 said:


> I didnt have much in it at all. I already had the pump. The tank was $50 and the plumbing parts about $20 or so. I have another cap for the tank that would allow me to recirculate. I didn't think it would be too hard on it, if I was quick to open the valve.


Nice! Hook up an electric valve, two wires on a toggle and youll be so happy. How does that compare to a $5000-$8000 V-box?

My boom is getting a 1.5" angle to protect it. Just waiting for this rain and moisture to get out of here so I can paint it.


----------



## MF 5455

Hi Guys...

Looks like it will do the job for you.

I started getting connectors and pipe today to build my brine mixer. Tomorrow try and get my totes. 2 for mixing, 2 for storage for now. I know where there's a 2500 poly tank sitting, but owner wasn't home.

I was looking at transfer pumps today, (gasoline driven). They both had cast aluminum housings on them Will they hold up to the brine being pushed through them like a speeding bullet ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1528430 said:


> Hi Guys...
> 
> Looks like it will do the job for you.
> 
> I started getting connectors and pipe today to build my brine mixer. Tomorrow try and get my totes. 2 for mixing, 2 for storage for now. I know where there's a 2500 poly tank sitting, but owner wasn't home.
> 
> I was looking at transfer pumps today, (gasoline driven). They both had cast aluminum housings on them Will they hold up to the brine being pushed through them like a speeding bullet ?


 I know where there's a 2500 poly tank sitting, but owner wasn't home. Best time to get a great deal :laughing:

I dont know about the aluminum, often wondered myself.


----------



## MF 5455

Haha...

Yes sir !!! Could just borrow it :waving:

Don't know about prices there, but a 5 h.p. honda, 2" trash pump with plastic housing is $600.00 and upwards ??? Not sure if that's what I need instead of just water transfer pump.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1528464 said:


> Haha...
> 
> Yes sir !!! Could just borrow it :waving:
> 
> Don't know about prices there, but a 5 h.p. honda, 2" trash pump with plastic housing is $600.00 and upwards ??? Not sure if that's what I need instead of just water transfer pump.


Not really a bad price for the Honda setup. But a poly transfer or dewatering pump is what I use.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120485296601?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 bought from him before, he shipped directly to my customer for me, saved me $40+ on re-shipping.

Yes, BORROWING just what I was thinking......


----------



## Kubota 8540

71F here today, not much need for a sprayer.


----------



## MF 5455

How true... Only 12 fah. here on Sat. Today 46. Tomorrow 55 Fah. and rain. Suppose to put in new septic tank etc., on Wed. This warm weather will give me a chance to get sprayer put together, and get going on my brine maker.

News has it that next Mon we're gonna get 10-14" :laughing: Only job a person can get paid for (nicely), and not know what you're speaking.


----------



## MF 5455

Holy Cow !!! Nice pump with fair price included. But, it's in Amarillo, Texas. Time I get it here, it will be January.


----------



## Kubota 8540

They took my order/payment on a Monday, had it to my customer in North Carolina on Thursday?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Just went back and read it again. Says ships to United States. Doesn't say Canada, but you could ask?


----------



## terrapro

For a basic sprayer why isn't this one ok? Works fine for me even throttled down I pump out more than I need.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200426728_200426728


----------



## Kubota 8540

I don't want a lot of snow, I just want 1" twice a week.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1528556 said:


> For a basic sprayer why isn't this one ok? Works fine for me even throttled down I pump out more than I need.
> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200426728_200426728


That would work just fine, good price too. I only run mine 1/4 throttle?


----------



## MF 5455

That's a fine looking pump. They even ship to Canada. Thanks for pointing this out.

That would do the job well I think.

I hear ya....small amounts of snow so we can just spray it away. payup


----------



## Kubota 8540

Really only need about 25 gpm and 30-60 psi. But it seems the smaller pumps cost more than the big pumps.


----------



## MF 5455

Yes sir... I will be in touch with them tomorrow. At least ask them how long they think it might take to get to me ??? I can get my tanks ready in the mean time, and if it's mot here, I'll stir it with big stick. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

I make more money / quicker spraying/salting than I do plowing.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1528579 said:


> Yes sir... I will be in touch with them tomorrow. At least ask them how long they think it might take to get to me ??? I can get my tanks ready in the mean time, and if it's mot here, I'll stir it with big stick. :laughing:


Boat oar, but thats a lot of oarring.


----------



## MF 5455

AHHHH.

There is an asterik beside Canada. So I read beside it, and guess what ? They can't ship Honda or Coleman products over here. :realmad:


----------



## snowish10

I found the liquid a spray is 39% calcium chloride and some other stuff.


----------



## terrapro

Mine is on my third year and I bought it used, cant beat that! If you throttle that thing up I would have to drive 10mph or more.


----------



## Kubota 8540

See I was on to something, no Coleman products, so just rub sticks together, and no Honda products just use the oars.


----------



## MF 5455

Haha... I can beat them at their own game. I have a son and daughter living in northwest Pa. Going down to see them in couple weeks. I could have it sent there. :laughing:

But, if I do that, I have no brine until the 17th at the earliest. 

Oh boy, decisions, decisions


----------



## terrapro

snowish10;1528595 said:


> I found the liquid a spray is 39% calcium chloride and some other stuff.


You would have to severly cut that, 39% is like mollases or heavy syrup.


----------



## snowish10

Unless they have the wrong numbers. I have sprayed that lquid before and it sprays fine.


----------



## terrapro

Tell me I am wrong but I swear I remember reading that anything over 32% can be actually be dangerously slippery?


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1528645 said:


> Tell me I am wrong but I swear I remember reading that anything over 32% can be actually be dangerously slippery?


39% would be something they would spray for dust control. But at 39% it would crystallize at about 60 degrees. So I'm guessing its a blend, part of that blend contains 39% cal chloride and the other 61% is a mixture of maybe salt brine and other chlorides.?


----------



## MF 5455

Hey Kubota.... no need for any spray here today... strong south wind and 55 deg.

Scrap the idea  Don't know where winter moved to, but sure no signs of it here.

Last year, snow after Christmas, maybe had a total of 16" overall.

Anymore, it seems there are 2 months of nasty weather. As a child, I remember it would turn cols, snow shortly after halloween, snow would be on ground til end of March 

I think all these earthquakes and bad storms have affected us.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Yesterday was unreal here. 71F strong south winds, short sleeves and sweating. December? When I was a kid we would get the January thaw for a few days then snow on the ground until a couple weeks before Easter.


----------



## MF 5455

Yes sir. That wasn't very long ago either. Wellllllll, maybe a few years, like 45


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1528821 said:


> Yes sir. That wasn't very long ago either. Wellllllll, maybe a few years, like 45


Yeah really. I have decided I wont get older than 53, and have now started to count backwards. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

Busy day today, have to finish coat sprayer skid for the city project, build the spray boom for it, then set up a wiring harness for the sprayer that I built for myself for this winter, for a guy from a municipality out of Kentucky thats coming tomorrow to pick that one up. Simple.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Always the last minute rush, in Nov and Dec before it snows. Did the same thing last year, sold the sprayer I was going to use, then had to build mine over the winter.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I wake, I work, I sleep, then rinse and repeat?


----------



## MF 5455

Ok.. Have a nice busy day.

I'm off to get totes today, try and find a gas pump locally. Suppose to meet with brine salesman today, and see what he has to say.

Question.. what it be more effective if a person mixed a small amount of beet juice in with brine as it's mixed ? I know it would be more costly, just wondered why you haven't mentioned using it.

Thanks


----------



## Kubota 8540

As far as I know beet juice has NO melting properties. It is used to keep more liquid on the surface so it doesnt turn to a mist from wheel traffic and helps neutralize the corrosiveness of the different chlorides. As well as I remember it has to be added to whatever under the surface of whatever you add it to so that it doesnt foam?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Here in Illinois 80% salt brine, 15% beet juice and 5% calcium chloride seems to be the mix for the highways.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I don't really mention it because I don't use it and I think its over rated and most certainly over priced.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

terrapro;1528556 said:


> For a basic sprayer why isn't this one ok? Works fine for me even throttled down I pump out more than I need.
> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200426728_200426728


This pump from NT is the same one I use, and I got it from Princess Auto for $399. Call around you might be able to find one, if you do let me know because I need another lol.

Also I dont know why you cant order pacer from NT? Its not a coleman or a honda product afaik.

Cheers


----------



## MF 5455

Hi. Thanks for info. I went to princess auto yesterday. They have one honda gas powered pump for $449.00. It has the aluminum housing on it which I was questioning, but there was no flange on the inlet side. Someone used it for another. They didn`t know if another was available and how soon. I left it for now until I checked about the salt water causing problems with the aluminum .


----------



## terrapro

Lynden-Jeff;1528872 said:


> This pump from NT is the same one I use, and I got it from Princess Auto for $399. Call around you might be able to find one, if you do let me know because I need another lol.
> 
> Also I dont know why you cant order pacer from NT? Its not a coleman or a honda product afaik.
> 
> Cheers


You lost me? Are you talking about the link I posted?

That is a Pacer pump with a 5.5hp Briggs attached for $260 from Northern Tool.


----------



## snowish10

Kubota 8540;1528797 said:


> 39% would be something they would spray for dust control. But at 39% it would crystallize at about 60 degrees. So I'm guessing its a blend, part of that blend contains 39% cal chloride and the other 61% is a mixture of maybe salt brine and other chlorides.?


This is what is in the spray i use, made up of 39% calcium Chloride.
They add a molasses to it for a tackifyer and corrosion inhibitor.


----------



## MF 5455

terrapro;1528931 said:


> You lost me? Are you talking about the link I posted?
> 
> That is a Pacer pump with a 5.5hp Briggs attached for $260 from Northern Tool.


Yes sir. I realized after I looked again at link you sent that the pump is not powered by a Honda engine. And, yes I did check at Princess Auto, and the only one they have is an aluminum pump housing, and I'm nervous about premature wear from salt brine mix.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota and friends...

Maybe I worry too much about everything....but,
just throwing caution to the wind here...

Have any of you ever been concerned or thought about the fact if someone were to slip and fall on a sidewalk or parking lot that had been sprayed, could they (lawyers) have the brine you use tested for the accuracy of mixture. Could it pose more of an insurance hazard for us, versus purchasing a brine that has been pre mixed by an established firm.


----------



## MF 5455

I met today with a sales person from a large chemical company. They sell bulk calc. chloride which has been what they call boiled under pressure to make sure the right density is assured. Never heard of that myself, but I am new to the mixing of this material.

They claim their calc. chloride is 27%, balance water. At 27%, on the chart of temperature and where the product works most efficient, it is good to -39 C. (That would be almost 40 below fah.). 

Not sure if it's hype, or if this is true. Their cost to deliver 22,000 liters ( 5800 gal). to my business is $ .24 liter. That is $ .90 gal.


----------



## MF 5455

The formula this chemical company follows is this....40-45 gallons per one lane for 1 mile. They expected for a less travelled area such as parking lots etc., contractors should add 1/3 more to same size area.

Any thoughts, please allow me to be corrected, or learn as you have what's worked the best for you.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

MF 5455;1528878 said:


> Hi. Thanks for info. I went to princess auto yesterday. They have one honda gas powered pump for $449.00. It has the aluminum housing on it which I was questioning, but there was no flange on the inlet side. Someone used it for another. They didn`t know if another was available and how soon. I left it for now until I checked about the salt water causing problems with the aluminum .


Aluminum will not really be affected to badly by sodium chloride. It will be mildly affected by calcium chloride. All depends if you put wash ports on your system. Next time for at princessauto hastle customer service to find this pump:

http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/5771563/Regular/Self-Priming-Centrifugal-Agricultural-Pump

And have it shipped to their store.



terrapro;1528931 said:


> You lost me? Are you talking about the link I posted?
> 
> That is a Pacer pump with a 5.5hp Briggs attached for $260 from Northern Tool.


In Canada everything is more expensive.



MF 5455;1529191 said:


> Kubota and friends...
> 
> Maybe I worry too much about everything....but,
> just throwing caution to the wind here...
> 
> Have any of you ever been concerned or thought about the fact if someone were to slip and fall on a sidewalk or parking lot that had been sprayed, could they (lawyers) have the brine you use tested for the accuracy of mixture. Could it pose more of an insurance hazard for us, versus purchasing a brine that has been pre mixed by an established firm.


Absolutely not. They dont need to go to that extent not to mention the second it hits the ground it could have been diluted. Your way overthinking it.



MF 5455;1529197 said:


> I met today with a sales person from a large chemical company. They sell bulk calc. chloride which has been what they call boiled under pressure to make sure the right density is assured. Never heard of that myself, but I am new to the mixing of this material.
> 
> They claim their calc. chloride is 27%, balance water. At 27%, on the chart of temperature and where the product works most efficient, it is good to -39 C. (That would be almost 40 below fah.).
> 
> Not sure if it's hype, or if this is true. Their cost to deliver 22,000 liters ( 5800 gal). to my business is $ .24 liter. That is $ .90 gal.


Never heard of this jibbrish and that's an expensive price. I get 16,000 liters delivered for .169/liter. I don't think it needs to be boiled to assure correct percentage, thats what measuring tools are for.


----------



## MF 5455

Lynden-Jeff;1529309 said:


> Aluminum will not really be affected to badly by sodium chloride. It will be mildly affected by calcium chloride. All depends if you put wash ports on your system. Next time for at princessauto hastle customer service to find this pump:
> 
> http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/5771563/Regular/Self-Priming-Centrifugal-Agricultural-Pump
> 
> And have it shipped to their store.
> 
> In Canada everything is more expensive.
> 
> Absolutely not. They dont need to go to that extent not to mention the second it hits the ground it could have been diluted. Your way overthinking it.
> 
> Never heard of this jibbrish and that's an expensive price. I get 16,000 liters delivered for .169/liter. I don't think it needs to be boiled to assure correct percentage, thats what measuring tools are for.


Thank you sir. I will go to princess Auto tomorrow and make them squirm :laughing: I think it's too expensive also, just trying to get some opinions from you friends. The sales person told me that a hydrometer (i think is used) is not an accurate tool for measuring the brine. I asked a simple question to him about me mixing my own....he was full of discouraging words about it..


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

MF 5455;1529329 said:


> Thank you sir. I will go to princess Auto tomorrow and make them squirm :laughing: I think it's too expensive also, just trying to get some opinions from you friends. The sales person told me that a hydrometer (i think is used) is not an accurate tool for measuring the brine. I asked a simple question to him about me mixing my own....he was full of discouraging words about it..


Well for canada $349 is pretty cheap for a poly agtransfer pump. A Honda will run you about $699 or so. Sounds like the guy was a good salesman, of course he wants you to buy his product!


----------



## Kubota 8540

Just looked at a Honda with Pacer for $499 today thought that was high.....:laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Everything is expensive....have to raise my prices accordingly  I found a pump tonight at crappy tire, (canadian tire), only one in city of 124,000 ??? It is priced at $519.00 plus 13% tax. Made me shiver it did


----------



## MF 5455

Well, I'm off to Watertown New York tomorrow to get new Pacer pump with Briggs engine. 5 h.p. I think it's rated at 160 gph and max 45 p.s.i. This is an ag pump with plastic housing. $329.99. This is at Tractor Supply. Browsing their web site tonight....they have quite a large assortment of sprayer parts available. They also have bulkhead fittings if any you people need those. I have all my fittings and valves also. My poly totes should be here Friday. Hope to make brine next week.  Snow is coming, and I'm still putting in septic systems. lol


----------



## Kubota 8540

Making a run to the border.


----------



## MF 5455

...leaving it all behind. lol. Can't believe there are no choices in pumps here. That is disgusting. Makes me want to ride in, shootin from the hip...lol I found 2 in London,On. That's 5 hrs. one way. Pump is $379.99 plus $125.00 shipping. I will cross border, get pump and be back in 2 hrs total. That Duramax sure loves to run...


----------



## Kubota 8540

City of Vine Grove Kentucky came and picked up their sprayer today. Going to deliver the City of Joliet's 1,235 gallon sprayer tomorrow. Friday, I have to start on a brinemaker for a contractor in Terre Haute, Indiana. I have nothing, no brinemakers, no sprayers, not even 1 for myself.

Watch it SNOW now !


----------



## snomover

Kubota 8540;1348049 said:


> I found a 4 channel wireless remote set up real cheap, doesn't look too bad but haven't had a chance to play with it yet.
> 
> Just have to hook each pump/motor to a 12 volt solenoid, because most wireless remote systems will only handle low amperage, like 5-7 amps generally. Your described set up sounds similar to what I did a couple of weeks ago. Wish I had of taken some pics.


Where did you find this remote system? I'm looking into the same kind of setup. I found a single channel 12v wireless system at Tractor supply for 30.


----------



## Kubota 8540

snomover;1530524 said:


> Where did you find this remote system? I'm looking into the same kind of setup. I found a single channel 12v wireless system at Tractor supply for 30.


Junk. The one I bought worked for a week or so then permanently lost 1 channel. Gave up on it. You pays ur money and u takes ur chances, on that stuff. There is a reason its so cheap?

Amazon.com


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1530493 said:


> City of Vine Grove Kentucky came and picked up their sprayer today. Going to deliver the City of Joliet's 1,235 gallon sprayer tomorrow. Friday, I have to start on a brinemaker for a contractor in Terre Haute, Indiana. I have nothing, no brinemakers, no sprayers, not even 1 for myself.
> 
> Watch it SNOW now !


Yes sir. I feel desperate myself to get something ready. I do have the sand/salt, clear salt ready,but....now it's time to make a change over.

You can just retire now, after selling the brine makers to the municipality.....the Americans tax dollars at work....lol :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1530547 said:


> Yes sir. I feel desperate myself to get something ready. I do have the sand/salt, clear salt ready,but....now it's time to make a change over.
> 
> You can just retire now, after selling the brine makers to the municipality.....the Americans tax dollars at work....lol :laughing:


They bought mine because it was portable and CHEAP compared to the $60,000 -$130,000 set ups that have to be union installed. I pulled up with it on a trailer, they forked it off, a small demo on how to operate and make brine and I was gone. LOL Then I waited for 60 days to be paid some peanuts.


----------



## Kubota 8540

But I did get my foot in the door. Brinemaker and cheap 1,000 gallon sprayer last year, ( 2) 1,235 gallon sprayers on steel skids this year. 3 trucks down, 42 more to go. LOL


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1530557 said:


> But I did get my foot in the door. Brinemaker and cheap 1,000 gallon sprayer last year, ( 2) 1,235 gallon sprayers on steel skids this year. 3 trucks down, 42 more to go. LOL


There you go. Always a step ahead of them. Maybe, just maybe you can build yourself the dream maker you have been wanting, or....something exotic for your wife. :laughing: Maybe not much of a winter anyhow. Almost Christmas and no snow. I kinda like it tho...lol.

Been thinking....I would like to incorporate a salt spreader with my 3 point sprayer. Maybe spread the salt just before the sprayer, or just after. That would be sorta neat setup.

I guess just use my v-box and wet it...


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1530567 said:


> There you go. Always a step ahead of them. Maybe, just maybe you can build yourself the dream maker you have been wanting, or....something exotic for your wife. :laughing: Maybe not much of a winter anyhow. Almost Christmas and no snow. I kinda like it tho...lol.
> 
> Been thinking....I would like to incorporate a salt spreader with my 3 point sprayer. Maybe spread the salt just before the sprayer, or just after. That would be sorta neat setup.
> 
> I guess just use my v-box and wet it...


Or maybe an exotic wife? :laughing: I'm fine with no snow as long as the orders keep coming in.


----------



## Kubota 8540

This one left for Kentucky Municipality yesterday. 200 gallon low profile tank 3 spray zones, left 4 feet, center 11 feet, right 4 feet, all with solid stream nozzles. By adding a few more nozzles and a minor adjustment it could be able to spray easily 24 feet total in 3 zones all with solid stream nozzles.


----------



## M & D LAWN

Kubota, is that galvanized pipe for the boom. Also do the tee jet nozzles self tap into the pipe?


----------



## Kubota 8540

I delivered this one to the City of Joliet Illinois today. 1,235 gallon 2" hydraulic driven poly pump, plumbed to self fill and to be able to be used as a transfer pump. single lane about 13 feet wide with solid stream nozzles and to spray about 45 gallons per lane mile. They have been using the first one non-stop since I delivered a couple weeks ago. Looked pretty sitting and hooked up in the back of that muni truck. Yep was BSing and forgot to take a pic.









Not really BSing, was talking about making some changes the next time. Maybe a fold up adjustable height spray bar? Tailored anchor brackets for their trucks to make them quick attach.

These are all my little skidsteer can pick up empty. Very Very scary to lift over 1 foot high. But I was testing the DON'T LIFT ELEPHANT WARNING STICKER.


----------



## Kubota 8540

M & D LAWN;1531286 said:


> Kubota, is that galvanized pipe for the boom. Also do the tee jet nozzles self tap into the pipe?


Yes that is galv pipe. Can be 304 stainless but at more than 3 times the cost nobody seems to want the stainless. The galv is good for at least 5 years with proper care? Its the proper care part that gets most guys. Always thoroughly rinse with water, maybe a neutralizer, then dump a couple gallons of RV anti-freeze in the system. (spray bar too)

The teejet nozzles are placed over a 3/8" drilled hole then the poly bracket clamps around the pipe and is secured with 1 screw from poly to poly bracket.


----------



## snowish10

Both sprayers look great!!!!!


----------



## Kubota 8540

I would like to build the one I have been thinking about for some time. It starts on a galvanized steel skid platform, 300 gallon rectangular tank, and an aluminum hood similar to a v box hood ( with the pneumatic cylinders) that covers engine/pump/plumbing and electric valves. Hood would have an exhaust port for engine exhaust, and the quick attach nozzles would protrude from the rear. Electric start, electric choke , electric throttle, kill, 4 zone, strobe to rear, and 2 led work lights, all controlled wireless. Wonder what that would cost and be worth?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531317 said:


> I would like to build the one I have been thinking about for some time. It starts on a galvanized steel skid platform, 300 gallon rectangular tank, and an aluminum hood similar to a v box hood ( with the pneumatic cylinders) that covers engine/pump/plumbing and electric valves. Hood would have an exhaust port for engine exhaust, and the quick attach nozzles would protrude from the rear. Electric start, electric choke , electric throttle, kill, 4 zone, strobe to rear, and 2 led work lights, all controlled wireless. Wonder what that would cost and be worth?


Well....we will wait for you to tell us after you get it put together.

I talked with manufacturer today on final plans for my 3 point hitch sprayer. 200 gallon tank, hydraulic pump driven, SCR 400 electronic cab controlled system with 4 different controllers plus pressure regulator. 3 zones . Straight boom approx. 104 ". Stream jet tips and boomless nozzles on each end. 2" quick connect for refilling tank from sprayer pump. This system is capable of 60 g.p.m. and 150 p.s.i. Added a 50 foot hose with nozzle for sidewalks etc.


----------



## IMAGE

Kubota 8540;1531268 said:


> This one left for Kentucky Municipality yesterday. 200 gallon low profile tank 3 spray zones, left 4 feet, center 11 feet, right 4 feet, all with solid stream nozzles. By adding a few more nozzles and a minor adjustment it could be able to spray easily 24 feet total in 3 zones all with solid stream nozzles.
> 
> View attachment 118528


That is a very nice looking sprayer. I like the low profile tank. And the boom looks sturdy.


----------



## M & D LAWN

Thanks for the info.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1531336 said:


> Well....we will wait for you to tell us after you get it put together.
> 
> I talked with manufacturer today on final plans for my 3 point hitch sprayer. 200 gallon tank, hydraulic pump driven, SCR 400 electronic cab controlled system with 4 different controllers plus pressure regulator. 3 zones . Straight boom approx. 104 ". Stream jet tips and boomless nozzles on each end. 2" quick connect for refilling tank from sprayer pump. This system is capable of 60 g.p.m. and 150 p.s.i. Added a 50 foot hose with nozzle for sidewalks etc.


But you didn't mention the price tag? Or is it just too scary?

Can that hose with nozzle be telescoped hydraulically and operated from the cab? Otherwise I wouldn't need one of those. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

Just listed a tank here.... http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=1531358#post1531358 Its a small 1050 gallon bulk tank, great shape a little dirty.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531364 said:


> But you didn't mention the price tag? Or is it just too scary?


Kinda... IDK for sure. Gonna be around $2,750.00.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1531373 said:


> Kinda... IDK for sure. Gonna be around $2,750.00.


That really doesn't sound like a bad price. Actually seems reasonable.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531367 said:


> Just listed a tank here.... http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=1531358#post1531358 Its a small 1050 gallon bulk tank, great shape a little dirty.


I called about a 1000 gallon used tank tonight. Had only water in it... 6 months old. They want $500.00 CDN.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531375 said:


> That really doesn't sound like a bad price. Actually seems reasonable.


The 3 point hitch setup is new to me. I havebeen around small sprayers years ago, and we built wands and tips, but not this size. It seems like the hyd. pump is perhaps a better choice overal, except I'm not sure about the flow. It's suppose to be around 7 gpm max so you don't waste the pump, but not sure how to adjust this flow from tractor side of things ? I think my tractor is around 26 gpm at max


----------



## Kubota 8540

You Canadians have to pay so much for everything. That would drive me nuts. Maybe I'm just cheap.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1531379 said:


> The 3 point hitch setup is new to me. I havebeen around small sprayers years ago, and we built wands and tips, but not this size. It seems like the hyd. pump is perhaps a better choice overal, except I'm not sure about the flow. It's suppose to be around 7 gpm max so you don't waste the pump, but not sure how to adjust this flow from tractor side of things ? I think my tractor is around 26 gpm at max


Well the hydraulic pumps I have been using has an adjustment screw on the motor itself that adjust the flow of hydraulic oil thru the motor. By adjusting that while looking at a pressure gauge on the liquid you are spraying, determines the oil flow.


----------



## Kubota 8540

It only needs to be set once, then probably never again


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531380 said:


> You Canadians have to pay so much for everything. That would drive me nuts. Maybe I'm just cheap.


Nope... not cheap, just looking for bargains. Why line someone else pockets ??? I had called about totes the other day. Guy said good deal on 4. Ok I said, sounds great. I called today....totes in ? Yep !!! How much $$$ ? $159.00 each. I about choked and fainted. Thanks, but I'll keep looking. Found some others about hr from home for $75.00 Still plenty, but I will pay that.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531386 said:


> It only needs to be set once, then probably never again


I'm not sure if there is an external flow valve on or near my remote ports on rear of tractor. I guess it's time to get out the owners manual :realmad:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531382 said:


> Well the hydraulic pumps I have been using has an adjustment screw on the motor itself that adjust the flow of hydraulic oil thru the motor. By adjusting that while looking at a pressure gauge on the liquid you are spraying, determines the oil flow.


Ok ???? Not sure, but asked today. The pressure regulator is incorporated on switch box in cab, while gauge is out on sprayer. Sales guy said no adjustment on pump ??? I will get model # from them, check on line to find out .


----------



## Kubota 8540

Next week I start building a small tote brinemaker for a contractor in Terre Haute, Indiana. We were talking about totes getting hard to find around my area, and the ones I can find are pretty beat up. Says he has at least 500 sitting out back that he could get rid of. I'm hoping they are in great shape. I may have found a new source.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1531389 said:


> I'm not sure if there is an external flow valve on or near my remote ports on rear of tractor. I guess it's time to get out the owners manual :realmad:


Manuals are for quitters. Exhaust all other possibilities first! :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

According to weather map, I won't be needing any form of de-icing or plows for the next couple weeks .


----------



## Kubota 8540

http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.88.4530/2391 This is about what you need.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531397 said:


> Manuals are for quitters. Exhaust all other possibilities first! :laughing:


Haha.. I like your attitude. Get a hammer and chisel ready....that's the quick cure for all our problems.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531400 said:


> http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.88.4530/2391 This is about what you need.


If you care to, go to cropcare.com Look at the 200-300 gallon 3 point hitch sprayers. Scroll down through options. It will show the SC400 control box and solenoid


----------



## MF 5455

That control box from Dultmeier is a nice version. If you have any leaks though.....you will have salty eye brows....


----------



## Kubota 8540

I think they make a different version of that where its an electric signal to a in cab pressure gauge also. The SC400 looks nice, just make sure you get an easy gauge to read. Mine had 3-4" gauge but maual controls right outside the back window. Far cheaper but a minor pain to use. If I had to do again it would be in cab controls.


----------



## Kubota 8540

On the other hand, had a plowsite member stop by one day and picked up some brine to go. He turned a wrong valve at the wrong time and I took a 90/10 BATH. After it dried it was white and crystallized. I felt like a Margarita.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531422 said:


> On the other hand, had a plowsite member stop by one day and picked up some brine to go. He turned a wrong valve at the wrong time and I took a 90/10 BATH. After it dried it was white and crystallized. I felt like a Margarita.


:laughing::laughing: Better put a lock out device on those valves for us beginners.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531268 said:


> This one left for Kentucky Municipality yesterday. 200 gallon low profile tank 3 spray zones, left 4 feet, center 11 feet, right 4 feet, all with solid stream nozzles. By adding a few more nozzles and a minor adjustment it could be able to spray easily 24 feet total in 3 zones all with solid stream nozzles.
> 
> View attachment 118528


You did a nice neat setup here. Almost professional :laughing: I notice there are 2 additional boom sections attached to main boom that go up on 45 deg at ends ? Is that to spray out and beyond the straight boom, or am I just seeing things here ???


----------



## Kubota 8540

Has to do with a positive displacement pump @ 150psi and poly fittings with no pressure relief valve. It will and has cracked fittings wide open if you shut the fill nozzle off before you shut the pump off. Just figured I would never do that. Still havent put one in. :laughing: It would cost less than twenty dollars to add one.


----------



## Kubota 8540

What 45's? Yes that is what they do. They have adjustable ball fittings on them.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Easy day tomorrow. Adding a natural gas line to my new garage. Thought it was about time, seeing how shivering and shaking is getting old.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531433 said:


> What 45's? Yes that is what they do. They have adjustable ball fittings on them.


Ok. Kinda hard to see everything from one angle. I really want to build one. Thinking about a 500 gallon for back of Freightliner dump. Good truck to use. Nice tight turning radius, and it's a 33,000 lb rating. Maybe evn hook it up to the central hydraulics ???? Like to put a flat bed on it. Makes it much easier to see what's going on too


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531434 said:


> Easy day tomorrow. Adding a natural gas line to my new garage. Thought it was about time, seeing how shivering and shaking is getting old.


Just pretend it's warm...:laughing: I'm 54 years old, but starting to have a few aches in the knee areas. This cold, damp air doesn't help, and working in the mud in ditches on my knees adds to some arthritis.


----------



## MF 5455

How much you think it would cost for a nice 500 gallon setup with in cab controls, running gas system ? 3 valve system ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

500 gallon on that truck is like a flea on a dog's back. I was already thinking. A company I order from sells an elliptical 500 gallon tank on a steel skid for $1,250. would be nice. Ready for your motor/pump and accessories.


----------



## Kubota 8540

A NICE? My cost maybe about $3,500 in parts, + labor + profit


----------



## Kubota 8540

I could make that spray 100 feet in 3 zones off a 102" boom


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531441 said:


> 500 gallon on that truck is like a flea on a dog's back. I was already thinking. A company I order from sells an elliptical 500 gallon tank on a steel skid for $1,250. would be nice. Ready for your motor/pump and accessories.


Yes sir. Lots of room too. Bed is 12 foot long. I like your idea of covering all motors, pumps, valves etc. I'm a nut job when it comes to keeping things nice. I like it neat, rust free, and under cover.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531443 said:


> A NICE? My cost maybe about $3,500 in parts, + labor + profit


Why don't we put a plan together this winter for this. I want something high quality, either gas or hydraulic driven, lots of volume, and nice inside controls. Maybe even one of those fancy covers for protection...:laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531443 said:


> A NICE? My cost maybe about $3,500 in parts, + labor + profit


......and of course, as cheap as possible. :crying:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1531450 said:


> Yes sir. Lots of room too. Bed is 12 foot long. I like your idea of covering all motors, pumps, valves etc. I'm a nut job when it comes to keeping things nice. I like it neat, rust free, and under cover.


My steel supplier says they can build the skids for my sprayers out of stainless if anyone request it. They can work wonders with anything steel. Wish I could have afforded to ask how much $$.

I really like that cover idea. Cant stop thinking about it.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Spraying a 100 feet per pass at 10 mph would give you exactly 7.57 minutes of spray time on a 500 gallon tank @ 82 gpa. LOL


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1531458 said:


> Spraying a 100 feet per pass at 10 mph would give you exactly 7.57 minutes of spray time on a 500 gallon tank @ 82 gpa. LOL


At that rate, I better have my sweetie at home running the brine maker...lol.

Wow.. now that is some spraying. One pass and parking lot is done !!!


----------



## MF 5455

I would like to use my stainless v-box on dump and have 500 gallon tank as well. Use small amount of only rock salt, and wet it on the spinner. I think those two combined, and also use them individually would be a nice setup.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I remember a few winters ago when I had the Kubota, we were nailed with back to back ice storms. I had contractors calling left and right to do their salting. The Kubota had a 3 point spreader. The owner was to pay me cash when I was done spreading salt on his lot, 1.25 acres. He was standing outside when I pulled in. I raised the height of the spreader and raised the deflector plates hydraulically and took off spreading rock salt. 80 feet per pass down and back, under 1 minute. Jumped out, grabbed the cash, while he was attempting to say, but,but,but, you wasn't here that long.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1531462 said:


> I would like to use my stainless v-box on dump and have 500 gallon tank as well. Use small amount of only rock salt, and wet it on the spinner. I think those two combined, and also use them individually would be a nice setup.


A combination sprayer, wet at the spinner, v box on one truck would be ideal.


----------



## MF 5455

Well I picked upmy new transfer pump today, along with a mess of 2' fittings etc. Also found a decent looking 12 volt pump for my pre wetting of sand/salt in v-box. Going in the morning to pick up some totes. Didn't find the bulkhead fittings today....sold out. They were $12 each in New York. I checked local plumbing store here and they were $56 each.  Hope to get started on brine system early next week. Need to find a hydrometer. Any ideas on where ???


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1532299 said:


> Well I picked upmy new transfer pump today, along with a mess of 2' fittings etc. Also found a decent looking 12 volt pump for my pre wetting of sand/salt in v-box. Going in the morning to pick up some totes. Didn't find the bulkhead fittings today....sold out. They were $12 each in New York. I checked local plumbing store here and they were $56 each.  Hope to get started on brine system early next week. Need to find a hydrometer. Any ideas on where ???


2" bulkheads are $8 each here. Just sold my last salimeter/hydrometer tonight on Ebay. Can't help you. But I was thinking of sending you a case of bulkheads and we can sell them for $40USD each?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1532321 said:


> 2" bulkheads are $8 each here. Just sold my last salimeter/hydrometer tonight on Ebay. Can't help you. But I was thinking of sending you a case of bulkheads and we can sell them for $40USD each?


Haha... trying to make some profit are we ???

Speaking of hydrometers...I need help. Do I want one that measures percent saturation of sodium chloride in water from 0 to 100%..... Or, one that is graduated in percent sodium chloride by weight from 0 to 26.5 % ?


----------



## MF 5455

MF 5455;1532326 said:


> Haha... trying to make some profit are we ???
> 
> Speaking of hydrometers...I need help. Do I want one that measures percent saturation of sodium chloride in water from 0 to 100%..... Or, one that is graduated in percent sodium chloride by weight from 0 to 26.5 % ?


By the way.... send me a box of 2" bulkheads...please.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1532326 said:


> Haha... trying to make some profit are we ???
> 
> Speaking of hydrometers...I need help. Do I want one that measures percent saturation of sodium chloride in water from 0 to 100%..... Or, one that is graduated in percent sodium chloride by weight from 0 to 26.5 % ?


Profit? Me? No I do all this for FREE.

0-100%, 0-26.5%, or a simple hydrometer that will read 1.179 sg all will work fine. Its just that I prefer the one with less numbers and bigger markings.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1532333 said:


> Profit? Me? No I do all this for FREE.
> 
> 0-100%, 0-26.5%, or a simple hydrometer that will read 1.179 sg all will work fine. Its just that I prefer the one with less numbers and bigger markings.


Ok. I understand why you want the bigger markings....I'm there myself. Didn't want to admit it for a while, but...life goes on anyway.

Ok. I found some on line for $25.00-35.00 Sound about right ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Usually if they are that price they don't have them in stock. On items like that I call them and verify they have them on hand.


----------



## MF 5455

TSC had 3 different versions of pumps today...all of them with plastic housings. Honda 5 hp with Pacer pump...$399.99. % hp Briggs, same set up...$359.99. Other one...Briggs 4 hp with a bit smaller Pacer pump. !50 gpm. $279.99 Bought the 2" hose for $2.19/foot. The 12 volt is 3.8 gpm, on demand type. 60 psi. Gonna try it for the wetting of solids


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

MF 5455;1532365 said:


> TSC had 3 different versions of pumps today...all of them with plastic housings. Honda 5 hp with Pacer pump...$399.99. % hp Briggs, same set up...$359.99. Other one...Briggs 4 hp with a bit smaller Pacer pump. !50 gpm. $279.99 Bought the 2" hose for $2.19/foot. The 12 volt is 3.8 gpm, on demand type. 60 psi. Gonna try it for the wetting of solids


TSC website says this pump is onsale for $250:

http://www.tscstores.com/6HP-2-POLY-TRANSFER-PUMP-P19068.aspx

Gonna see if I can get one tomorrow.


----------



## MF 5455

Lynden-Jeff;1532443 said:


> TSC website says this pump is onsale for $250:
> 
> http://www.tscstores.com/6HP-2-POLY-TRANSFER-PUMP-P19068.aspx
> 
> Gonna see if I can get one tomorrow.


Good looking out. The ad doesn't have much info concerning pump does it ? Nevertheless, it may be exactly what you need and be great quality. Please inform us as to your results, and perhaps the specs. Are you going to the U.S. to get it, or the homeland ?


----------



## leigh

MF 5455;1527573 said:


> Picture of my 2 bobcats working together. I purchased both new in 2001. Both have the Kubota engines. Excellent quality, pure preventive maintenance is all required.
> 
> They have both paid for themselves many xxxx's


I may be wrong, but we might be twins separated at birth!I'm 54 also.By the way I was wondering if I could borrow some money bro...... payup


----------



## MF 5455

leigh;1532516 said:


> I may be wrong, but we might be twins separated at birth!I'm 54 also.By the way I was wondering if I could borrow some money bro...... payup


Haha :laughing::laughing: I love my bobcat equipment. Not sure how the new ones work and how dependable they are, but mine have been outstanding. Only normal maintenance.

If you're poor and hungry, than we're probably relate. lol


----------



## MF 5455

I picked up my totes today...yes all 8 of them. I will have the nicest smelling brine north of the border. Still has some commercial grade fabric softener in them.  If the wind blows from the north down to you guys with a refreshing smell, you will know I'm out spraying. :laughing:

Ended up getting them for $60.00 each. I felt that was affordable. Source has more if I want them. Now I need to find affordable bulk head fittings.  May have to wait until I go see my kids this coming weekend in Pa. 

Gonna get colder here tonight. Was up to 40 today, by morning 26. Gonna go later tonight and spread some rock salt just in case things get a bit slick. ( it rained all day )


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1532852 said:


> I picked up my totes today...yes all 8 of them. I will have the nicest smelling brine north of the border. Still has some commercial grade fabric softener in them.  If the wind blows from the north down to you guys with a refreshing smell, you will know I'm out spraying. :laughing:
> 
> Ended up getting them for $60.00 each. I felt that was affordable. Source has more if I want them. Now I need to find affordable bulk head fittings.  May have to wait until I go see my kids this coming weekend in Pa.
> 
> Gonna get colder here tonight. Was up to 40 today, by morning 26. Gonna go later tonight and spread some rock salt just in case things get a bit slick. ( it rained all day )


What if it doesn't smell good and just melts the snow softly?

I have a good deal on 2" bulkheads, a lot less money than north of the border. Only $40 each.

If you had brine, you could save 70% over spreading that salt.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1532903 said:


> What if it doesn't smell good and just melts the snow softly?
> 
> I have a good deal on 2" bulkheads, a lot less money than north of the border. Only $40 each.
> 
> If you had brine, you could save 70% over spreading that salt.


I like the deal you spoke of couple days ago....bulkheads for $12 each....payup Don't make me cry...I wish I had brine ready, but I just procrastinated.  Didn't really think much about it until later part of November. If I had bulkhead fittings, I could be up and running Tues....oooops, forgot I need a hydrometer.


----------



## MF 5455

Found an interesting article that I found helpful.. One question tho...do you guys clean and flush your spraying equipment from the salt brine everytime you finish ?  Seems like that would be hard to do if it's cold out ???????


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1532986 said:


> Found an interesting article that I found helpful.. One question tho...do you guys clean and flush your spraying equipment from the salt brine everytime you finish ?  Seems like that would be hard to do if it's cold out ???????


Very good article. I only rinse, neutralize, and rv anti freeze at the end of season. Especially the spray bar.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533005 said:


> Very good article. I only rinse, neutralize, and rv anti freeze at the end of season. Especially the spray bar.


Ok. I didn't think anything would happen, (being it's salt water), always the chance of something settling, corroding ???? The article highly suggests the use of strainers / filters in the system. I guess it depends on what type of liquid you use ???


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1533014 said:


> Ok. I didn't think anything would happen, (being it's salt water), always the chance of something settling, corroding ???? The article highly suggests the use of strainers / filters in the system. I guess it depends on what type of liquid you use ???


As the salt water evaporates the salt reverts back to crystal form. Sometimes it dries very hard. Corrosive is salt brine's middle name.

I don't use filter/strainers on my sprayers. But I let my brine settle, pump from the top, and never stick a dirty hose in my sprayer. I'm very careful about all that and have ZERO problems.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533030 said:


> As the salt water evaporates the salt reverts back to crystal form. Sometimes it dries very hard. Corrosive is salt brine's middle name.
> 
> I don't use filter/strainers on my sprayers. But I let my brine settle, pump from the top, and never stick a dirty hose in my sprayer. I'm very careful about all that and have ZERO problems.


Ok. Are the bulkhead fittings you use threaded style for threaded hose barb fittings, or strictly glue in style ?


----------



## MF 5455

MF 5455;1533047 said:


> Ok. Are the bulkhead fittings you use threaded style for threaded hose barb fittings, or strictly glue in style ?


I'm talking about bulkhead fittings in your brinemaker. ( the one you made with totes)


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1533047 said:


> Ok. Are the bulkhead fittings you use threaded style for threaded hose barb fittings, or strictly glue in style ?


Threaded style. Going to build a brinemaker this week. Already bought my $8 bulkhead fittings, all 5 of them. LOL


----------



## Kubota 8540

Want to see who gets done first? :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533063 said:


> Want to see who gets done first? :laughing:


Ahhhhhh...Well, ummmm you have access to all the parts needed. I have to drive all over N. America to get what I need. This socialist country up here doesn't offer all the goodies and choices you good people have down there. I will let you feel good and finish your system first...:laughing:

I need hydrometer and bulkhead fittings and bing-bang, I'm ready to go.


----------



## leigh

Justa quick question regarding brine.Mf mentioned he needs to get a hydrometer.What would happen if you mixed a small batch of brine,say 50 gal and mixed it with the amount salt needed in theory- 2.?? lbs per gal. If your solution had too much salt would it naturally reach the proper % on it's own.Would the extra salt just settle to the bottom and leave the liquid portion the optimun %.My project is to build a simple pre-wet system and I.m keeping it simple till I see how it works


----------



## Kubota 8540

leigh;1533266 said:


> Justa quick question regarding brine.Mf mentioned he needs to get a hydrometer.What would happen if you mixed a small batch of brine,say 50 gal and mixed it with the amount salt needed in theory- 2.?? lbs per gal. If your solution had too much salt would it naturally reach the proper % on it's own.Would the extra salt just settle to the bottom and leave the liquid portion the optimun %.My project is to build a simple pre-wet system and I.m keeping it simple till I see how it works


If you get too much salt in the water it will freeze just like water @ 32F. In theory 2.3 pounds of salt dissolved into .8?? gallons water = 23.3% solution. I wouldn't want to chance it. You can find cheap hydrometers for $6-$10 most times.

Excess salt will NOT settle to the bottom

http://www.varitech-industries.com/pdfs/Salt Brine Statistics and Rock Salt.pdf


----------



## MF 5455

I have an idea... I will send my wife tomorrow to couple restaurant supply stores, or even to a wine making supply ?????? I will stay home and get my brine maker finished before Kubota has his done.....yes sir !!!!

Maybe, just maybe we will find one locally without having to take out a loan...


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533270 said:


> If you get too much salt in the water it will freeze just like water @ 32F. In theory 2.3 pounds of salt dissolved into .8?? gallons water = 23.3% solution. I wouldn't want to chance it. You can find cheap hydrometers for $6-$10 most times.
> 
> Excess salt will NOT settle to the bottom
> 
> http://www.varitech-industries.com/pdfs/Salt Brine Statistics and Rock Salt.pdf


...so, in theory, if you used 400 gallons of water, you would also add 1150 lbs. salt. This is based on your calculations I think ? I need a hydrometer though just to be sure.

I have another question....should the building if applicable, salt and water be at 60 deg. to give the correct readings on the hydrometer ? Is there a cheating scale I could follow ? My well water always seems to be around 52 deg :laughing::laughing: Might have to build a fire under the stewing pot....lol


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1533417 said:


> I have an idea... I will send my wife tomorrow to couple restaurant supply stores, or even to a wine making supply ?????? I will stay home and get my brine maker finished before Kubota has his done.....yes sir !!!!
> 
> Maybe, just maybe we will find one locally without having to take out a loan...


Are you going to make wine or brine? Those hydrometers measure achcohol content not salt.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1533438 said:


> ...so, in theory, if you used 400 gallons of water, you would also add 1150 lbs. salt. This is based on your calculations I think ? I need a hydrometer though just to be sure.
> 
> I have another question....should the building if applicable, salt and water be at 60 deg. to give the correct readings on the hydrometer ? Is there a cheating scale I could follow ? My well water always seems to be around 52 deg :laughing::laughing: Might have to build a fire under the stewing pot....lol


I posted some cheating charts either in this thread or the new brinemaker thread. That's why I make brine when its about 60-65the degrees. I don't have to worry about temps.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533450 said:


> Are you going to make wine or brine? Those hydrometers measure achcohol content not salt.


Oooooops !!!! Better stay focused here. Brine it is, not wine it isn't.

Ok. I will look backwards into your posts to see if I can find it. I can have building at 60, no problem, just wondering if I need to warm the water some. Could I let water stand in brine tank for a day, and than add the salt ? I know in the small brine you put salt in first, just curious if it matters which goes first...???


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1533461 said:


> Oooooops !!!! Better stay focused here. Brine it is, not wine it isn't.
> 
> Ok. I will look backwards into your posts to see if I can find it. I can have building at 60, no problem, just wondering if I need to warm the water some. Could I let water stand in brine tank for a day, and than add the salt ? I know in the small brine you put salt in first, just curious if it matters which goes first...???


Really doesn't matter which you add first. But I always add the salt first then put water hose in top salt tank so that the filling flow of water helps dissolve salt as it's filling with water. From my experience with letting the salt soak a day, it warms the water and softens the salt and the actual mixing/pumping time is greatly reduced. (Saves gas and time standing around)


----------



## leigh

Hydrometer it is then. By the way, this is the most interesting section of plowsite Thumbs Up


----------



## Kubota 8540

I now have heat in my new garage, and am working on building a new roll around work table.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533517 said:


> I now have heat in my new garage, and am working on building a new roll around work table.


Roll around work table, huh... You probably have a fold up cot hanging from wall too. :laughing: I'm able to use natural gas here, which is convenient and probably lesser of 2 evils as far as price goes. Convenient also.

Is new garage for building salt brine sprayers / makers ?

Yes, I enjoy this site, not a lot of activity tho ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1533522 said:


> Roll around work table, huh... You probably have a fold up cot hanging from wall too. :laughing: I'm able to use natural gas here, which is convenient and probably lesser of 2 evils as far as price goes. Co
> Is new garage for building salt brine sprayers / makers ?
> 
> Yes, I enjoy this site, not a lot of activity tho ?


No, just for building the next brinemaker.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I sold my shop 5 years ago, just before the real estate market crashed. Leased it back for 5 years real cheap with free heat, lights, and water. But the free ride is over. So I built a new garage behind my house, now I have wifi. I put in the natural gas line yesterday


----------



## Kubota 8540

Android works good in here. But I think it won't be long before I hard wire the internet out here


----------



## MF 5455

Nice. Good to be at your own place too.

I just can't seem to locate a whatever for measuring my salt brine mix. I have looked so much, I'm cross eyed... Perhaps you could lead me in the direction of one if that's possible. i would thank you.


----------



## MF 5455

MF 5455;1533564 said:


> Nice. Good to be at your own place too.
> 
> I just can't seem to locate a whatever for measuring my salt brine mix. I have looked so much, I'm cross eyed... Perhaps you could lead me in the direction of one if that's possible. i would thank you.


Ok. I found some in Michigan. $13.50 each. I sent an order for 100 of them...don't want to run short. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

From here in the garage I can't. Yet. If I was at my computer I might be able to. Might install wired internet and computer in here tomorrow. No garage is complete without one you know.


----------



## Kubota 8540

They don't last long if you put them in your back pocket


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533605 said:


> They don't last long if you put them in your back pocket


Haha. That's how I abuse my reading spectacles. I buy them at dollar store, either run over them with excavator or dump truck, or simply lose them. I have a pair everywhere, but no where when I need them.

When you built your manifold for the salt tank, did you reduce the outflow pipes to 1 1/4" ? Seems like the smaller size might give more turbulence for stirring, but not sure if it will foam up with the higher pressure ?


----------



## MF 5455

Found some poly 2" bulkhead fittings from freshwatersystems.com. BHTF-200-PP
I think I can use those...still more than your $8.00 ones, but can't find those local that's for sure. Call in the morning and see how fast they can ship from S.C.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1533657 said:


> Found some poly 2" bulkhead fittings from freshwatersystems.com. BHTF-200-PP
> I think I can use those...still more than your $8.00 ones, but can't find those local that's for sure. Call in the morning and see how fast they can ship from S.C.


Are 2" bulkheads ILLEGAL in Canada Or something? :laughing:


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

If you still need a hydrometer this is where I just got mine from:

http://www.coleparmer.ca/

Canada friendly to.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1533744 said:


> Are 2" bulkheads ILLEGAL in Canada Or something? :laughing:


I like your home made bulkheads with the male/female screw in ABS/PVC fittings and silicone. Going to use that on my next brine maker.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1533770 said:


> I like your home made bulkheads with the male/female screw in ABS/PVC fittings and silicone. Going to use that on my next brine maker.


I haven't tried them in the side of the totes, but they worked well in the big plastic tanks.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533779 said:


> I haven't tried them in the side of the totes, but they worked well in the big plastic tanks.


I did find an interesting article on line about an individual who used electrical conduit fittings, made his own gaskets. Same size conduit as the drain type. A bit more homemade, but who cares as long as it doesn't leak. A bit of ingenuity goes a long way sometime.


----------



## Kubota 8540

It would be nice to decrease the cost of all those bulkheads, but cutting my own gaskets would get old fast when you build as many as I do. Bulkheads, hose barbs, and 6' of hose = approx $100


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533908 said:


> It would be nice to decrease the cost of all those bulkheads, but cutting my own gaskets would get old fast when you build as many as I do. Bulkheads, hose barbs, and 6' of hose = approx $100


I may go look at the electrical fittings just to see if there's enough shoulder to be able to even tighten a gasket between. Later, when you put the hose barb fitting into it, a person would need to be careful tightening them. I want to be able to take them apart and move the totes later. The setup now is temporary. I have a more permanent location in mind for next year.

The bulkheads on line would be $70 (x5) plus the hose was $25. I wasn't able to get all the hose barbs I needed. Another trip into town


----------



## MF 5455

Did you have a specific reason why you put the one tote higher than the other one ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1533917 said:


> Did you have a specific reason why you put the one tote higher than the other one ?


So you can put the bulkheads in for the overflow tubes.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533921 said:


> So you can put the bulkheads in for the overflow tubes.


Okkkk ???? It seems to be a bit more effort to load the tank with salt when it's that much higher. I'm getting old.... those 80 lb. bags will wear me out. I know....build a conveyor. :laughing::laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Even better... I will use the excavator and dump truck. One to bring the salt over, and other one to load the tote....oh yea !!!!


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1533934 said:


> Even better... I will use the excavator and dump truck. One to bring the salt over, and other one to load the tote....oh yea !!!!


You know these 2 tote brinemakers seem small, which they are actually. But when they make 400 gallons per hour, on average you make 3,000 gallons in a short day. 2 or 3 days a year and I'm done for the winter. I have always wanted to take my old 5 foot skidsteer bucket and cut it in half to a 30 inch , add a skidsteer plate to the 30", plate the one side in and be able to load it that way. But I never have.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533944 said:


> You know these 2 tote brinemakers seem small, which they are actually. But when they make 400 gallons per hour, on average you make 3,000 gallons in a short day. 2 or 3 days a year and I'm done for the winter. I have always wanted to take my old 5 foot skidsteer bucket and cut it in half to a 30 inch , add a skidsteer plate to the 30", plate the one side in and be able to load it that way. But I never have.


I use to have a concrete bucket for mine. Had a funnel like front on it. I would load at mixer and go to foundation or whatever and pour from maybe a 18" opening. One could take a bucket with a cylinder to open the front like a clam, scoop up the salt, close the front down. Would still have opening in middle so you could dump slowly into tote.


----------



## MF 5455

I actually have a dirt bucket with cutting edge worn down pretty bad. That would work and than just modify it to fit the need.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1533954 said:


> I actually have a dirt bucket with cutting edge worn down pretty bad. That would work and than just modify it to fit the need.


Wore down? You mean when it is shaped like a UUUUUUU between the teeth like mine? :laughing:

Mine doesn't have teeth no more just stubs


----------



## Kubota 8540

At least my smooth edge bucket only has 2 patches on the bottom from back dragging gravel. Some day I think when the patches wear thru again I will buy a new one.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1533959 said:


> Wore down? You mean when it is shaped like a UUUUUUU between the teeth like mine? :laughing:
> 
> Mine doesn't have teeth no more just stubs


Haha. Yes sir exactly. Ahh, it's good for one more job, and still going. New buckets are expensive to buy, and when you have to wait on your money for 60-90 days, my belly gets hungry. Can't afford new bucket.  I would like to purchase new skid loader, but this 2001 still runs good, (kubota engine) and not worth much to trade it in, so might as well run it for a while longer. New Cat 262 series here is around $60 k. Little larger than mine, nicer, new, more bells and whistles, but it has a payment with it....mine doesn't


----------



## Kubota 8540

I was at the loacal Bobcat dealer with my son awhile back and both of us went directly to the 630. We were both liking it. Alot. Big change from the 753


----------



## NorthernSvc's

so im going to be making my brine maker soon, and 2 spray rigs for our trucks,Thanks to all of your posts and such...otherwise i would be completely lost. just had a quick question, who uses IBC totes for the trucks? do you have any issues with the weight sitting higher up? my rigs will be going in SRW f-350's... I have numerous 275 gallon totes at my disposal.. I really don't want to flip $500.00 for a nice pretty molded tank if I don't have to... I don't see it being a major issue was just what other peoples experiences have been with the totes?
Thanks!


----------



## Kubota 8540

NorthernSvc's;1534509 said:


> so im going to be making my brine maker soon, and 2 spray rigs for our trucks,Thanks to all of your posts and such...otherwise i would be completely lost. just had a quick question, who uses IBC totes for the trucks? do you have any issues with the weight sitting higher up? my rigs will be going in SRW f-350's... I have numerous 275 gallon totes at my disposal.. I really don't want to flip $500.00 for a nice pretty molded tank if I don't have to... I don't see it being a major issue was just what other peoples experiences have been with the totes?
> Thanks!


I have had them in the back of the truck before. They are hard to secure. Hard to keep from sliding and a pain to see around. But I love the price of the totes. Freight on tanks terrible. I have had limited luck with tanks from Rural King. But you are basically limited to sizes and styles they have on the lot. They usually have the round dome type in 200, 350, 450's, and their pricing is really good. This being winter they don't stock much, maybe give the store a call.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

yea i will... just can't beat the $40.00 per tote ( what i paid for them used)... if i can't find anything local for cheap im probably gonna stick with it and just make some kind of framework for it that will help secure it better.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Just got my totes back from the chrome dept. :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1534617 said:


> Just got my totes back from the chrome dept. :laughing:
> 
> View attachment 118823


Haha... hope it's a good coating, because Mr. Deterioration will soon be visiting. Won't take long and shiny will be gone by the way side.

Ordered my bulkheads locally today. They will be here in the morning. Found a place that has some, usually smaller dia. Bit more than wanted to pay....$22.00 ea. Totes are in place, ready to cut and slice in the morning. Spent my morning salting, than went to look at couple of excavating jobs. Have rest of week to work on them since no snow forecast.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Amazing what some sand blasting and paint will accomplish


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1534829 said:


> Amazing what some sand blasting and paint will accomplish


Yes sir. They look nice. How is the heat working in the new garage?


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Question for you kubota. Is 8 1" mixing jets off a 2" 5.5 HP pump to many? Will I still have significant mixing power or will the jets be weak?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Working real nice. I get to work in there all day tomorrow, probably on the brinemaker base and bulkheads

New garage is 600 sq ft smaller than the other shop.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1534874 said:


> Question for you kubota. Is 8 1" mixing jets off a 2" 5.5 HP pump to many? Will I still have significant mixing power or will the jets be weak?


I think the flow would be weak. My big brine maker only had 5 per 2" pump.

The tote brinemaker I had (4) 3/4" down pipes, it worked real well.


----------



## terrapro

Picked up some 55gal poly drums today for $10 per. I am going to have two rigged to mix 100gal per and the other two as semi-movable storage tanks. Hopefully I can keep around 200gal available combined mix and storage. At $10 per I think I might go pick up 2-4 more barrels for storage


----------



## Kubota 8540

I'm sure I'm going to miss my old shop, especially all the FREE heat and utilities. 

But I'm 75 feet from my back door.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1534883 said:


> I think the flow would be weak. My big brine maker only had 5 per 2" pump.
> 
> The tote brinemaker I had (4) 3/4" down pipes, it worked real well.


Maybe I will try 4 or 6 1" and cap a few if I have to. I'm interested in the designs of the brine maker, im thinking of trying a cone bottom tank with a full 2" bottom jet if I continue with the brine making. Wonder if this would work well.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1534885 said:


> Picked up some 55gal poly drums today for $10 per. I am going to have two rigged to mix 100gal per and the other two as semi-movable storage tanks. Hopefully I can keep around 200gal available combined mix and storage. At $10 per I think I might go pick up 2-4 more barrels for storage


What are you going to use as a pump? Just a quick idea. Set 1 barrel up on 2 concrete blocks, cut in 1 overflow fitting, to flow back into the lower barrel, where a submersible sump pumps water into the elevated barrel. Brinemaker that makes 100 gallon for under $200?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1534895 said:


> Maybe I will try 4 or 6 1" and cap a few if I have to. I'm interested in the designs of the brine maker, im thinking of trying a cone bottom tank with a full 2" bottom jet if I continue with the brine making. Wonder if this would work well.


I started with 1 tote and a 3/4 hp sump pump sitting in a 5 gallon bucket in the bottom of the tote and it all progressed from there. Won't know until you experiment.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I'm thinking of quitting making brinemakers and just sell fittings to Canadians. I think there is more profit to be made doing that. :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1534905 said:


> I'm thinking of quitting making brinemakers and just sell fittings to Canadians. I think there is more profit to be made doing that. :laughing:


Haha.. I'm monitoring every word you say..


----------



## MF 5455

You best be careful how you talk...you might end up with a salt brine bath...:laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1534887 said:


> I'm sure I'm going to miss my old shop, especially all the FREE heat and utilities.
> 
> But I'm 75 feet from my back door.


That's close enough to the kitchen...Thumbs Up


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1534912 said:


> You best be careful how you talk...you might end up with a salt brine bath...:laughing:


Been there done that, not to bad, but made me think of Margarita's when I licked my lips.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1534913 said:


> That's close enough to the kitchen...Thumbs Up


It is nice just to walk a short distance to the house, but it also has disadvantages, like "Why are you doing that? " "Now what are you doing?" " The garbage needs taken out." blah, blah,blah


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1534918 said:


> It is nice just to walk a short distance to the house, but it also has disadvantages, like "Why are you doing that? " "Now what are you doing?" " The garbage needs taken out." blah, blah,blah


:laughing::laughing::laughing: I know the feeling...gotta love them tho !!!
Mine is going to help me build on this one. Have to make them feel important. 
Nice to have someone bring a hot tea and cookies out to see you.


----------



## terrapro

Kubota 8540;1534897 said:


> What are you going to use as a pump? Just a quick idea. Set 1 barrel up on 2 concrete blocks, cut in 1 overflow fitting, to flow back into the lower barrel, where a submersible sump pumps water into the elevated barrel. Brinemaker that makes 100 gallon for under $200?


Even better. My gas trash sprayer pump is on its own skid so it is easyly movable by one guy. I am going to elevate one drum just enough for the 2"+ overflow then have my sprayer pump out from the lower drum with 2" pipe into the pump then Tee it into dual 1" hose that will go into opposite sides of the drum with 90deg exit on the inside pointing in say north and south directions to create a vortex or swirling mixing motion! Thumbs Up

Let me know what you think!


----------



## MF 5455

I finished my salt tote tonight. I have some pics. Will have to learn to put them from phone to file to here.  Anyway, I didn't purchase the bulkhead fittings from the plumbing store...tooooo much $$$. I purchased 2" electrical male and female fittings...$1.59 ea. I found some heavy rubber gaskets in plumbing dept...$2.00 each that fit snugly over the threads of pvc fitting. Than used my 2 1/4" hole saw on the tote. It is a very snug fit, but I am assured it will be just fine. I saved myself $100.00 by going this way.

Also mounted the pump on platform, ready to plumb it tomorrow.


----------



## MF 5455

also...I pick up my 3 point hitch sprayer next Thursday the 20th.


----------



## magneto259

I just finished my gen 2 sprayer bar. Unfortunately I could only fit 4 nozzles on it because of the way I mounted it. I'll try to post a picture later. 

Also how is the comparison of liquid gallons versus pounds of salt? I am gonna be salting lots for so much per pound. I figured I'd use liquid on a few small ones but I didn't want to over or under bill them because I only charge for what I use. Thanks in advance!


----------



## MF 5455

magneto259;1535812 said:


> I just finished my gen 2 sprayer bar. Unfortunately I could only fit 4 nozzles on it because of the way I mounted it. I'll try to post a picture later.
> 
> Also how is the comparison of liquid gallons versus pounds of salt? I am gonna be salting lots for so much per pound. I figured I'd use liquid on a few small ones but I didn't want to over or under bill them because I only charge for what I use. Thanks in advance!


Kubota would be the expert, buy this is what I have.

Salt brine eutectic 23.3% @ 59 deg. fahrenheit.
Salt brine specific gravity @ 23.3 %, 59 deg. fahrenheit....1.179

Pounds of salt per gallon of brine 2.28 lbs @ 23.3 % @ 59 deg. fahrenheit
.
Salt weight per cubic ft. ASTM spec D 632 approx 80 lbs.
Salt weight per cubic yard ASTM spec D 632 approx. 2160 lbs.

Some helpful info I gathered from on line. Hope it helps you.


----------



## magneto259

Thank you for your reply. 

Here is something I found on the internet.

TREATING WITH BRINE for 1 acre site.
Conversion to liquid: 2.288 lbs. of salt = 1 gal. 23.3% sodium chloride brine
Price: 2.288 x $0.04 (rock salt price per lbs.) = $0.0915
Application rate: 100 gallons
Chloride emissions: 2.288 lbs. x 60% chloride = 1.3728 lbs. x 100 gal. = 137.28 lbs.
Cost to treat: 100 gal. x $0.0915 = $9.15

So 100 gallons of brine has the power of roughly 700 pounds of rock salt for deicing?
At least thats what I'm coming up with.

What are your guys suggestions?


----------



## MF 5455

magneto259;1535839 said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> Here is something I found on the internet.
> 
> TREATING WITH BRINE for 1 acre site.
> Conversion to liquid: 2.288 lbs. of salt = 1 gal. 23.3% sodium chloride brine
> Price: 2.288 x $0.04 (rock salt price per lbs.) = $0.0915
> Application rate: 100 gallons
> Chloride emissions: 2.288 lbs. x 60% chloride = 1.3728 lbs. x 100 gal. = 137.28 lbs.
> Cost to treat: 100 gal. x $0.0915 = $9.15
> 
> So 100 gallons of brine has the power of roughly 700 pounds of rock salt for deicing?
> At least thats what I'm coming up with.
> 
> What are your guys suggestions?


My new sprayer is set up as of now for 50 gpa. If you look back a few pages in this thread, I believe you will find some opinions from experience. Kubota has some helpful hints, he sleeps in it, drinks it, sells it, makes it, writes about it.....ton of experience. :laughing:

I think also the price would depend on the area you live in, how much your salt costs you per bag / bulk ??? Here where I am, a tonne is $100.00. Per bag at the box store for (40kg) 88 lb. is $10-11 each.


----------



## Under Pressure5

*New to Salt Brine!*

Hello All, I have recently purchased a salt brine making setup as well as truck mounted boom sprayer etc. In my area it has been hard to compare our services to others. I could use some guidance on what to charge to : 1. A ball park price for selling brine to other contractors 2. Rates to apply the brine.

Let's say for example our target market is residential homes. Average drive is 60'. 
I was thinking a weekly application for the winter months(depending on the weather)

Any help would be appreciated.

P.S. I can get rock salt for $75.00 per ton. 
To make Brine- cost per gallon $0.12

Thanks in advance - 
Mark


----------



## magneto259

Hello again and thanks for the reply.

I've dug through this thread so many times I should have the pages memorized....lol.
I can get mineral brine a couple miles from me for .10 cents a gallon. I was going to use this then see about mixing in some calcium chloride to beef it up.


----------



## Kubota 8540

"So 100 gallons of brine has the power of roughly 700 pounds of rock salt for deicing?" YES, that's been my experience, +/- a few, depending on type of snow.

Selling brine will depend on your cost to make and compared to other liquids (well brine ) in your area. The reason I mentioned well brine is because I have not found ANY other liquid products anywhere near in price. I sell to a few other contractors around my area, .40 cents per gallon brine, up to 50 cents per gallon 90/10 mix. But that price will depend on your market.


----------



## Kubota 8540

magneto259;1535812 said:


> I just finished my gen 2 sprayer bar. Unfortunately I could only fit 4 nozzles on it because of the way I mounted it. I'll try to post a picture later.
> 
> Also how is the comparison of liquid gallons versus pounds of salt? I am gonna be salting lots for so much per pound. I figured I'd use liquid on a few small ones but I didn't want to over or under bill them because I only charge for what I use. Thanks in advance!


Never could understand the deicing by the pound theory. It leaves too much room for disagreements. You say you spread 500 pounds, and maintenance guy/office girl says he/she thinks you only spread 400? Then what? Show them the empty wrappers or bags?

I charge for deicing period. It doesn't matter if I do it with a bic lighter, 3 kernels of rock salt, 100 gallons of liquid, or 700 pounds of salt. Deicing, its melted and they owe me the pre-agreed to amount.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1535872 said:


> My new sprayer is set up as of now for 50 gpa. If you look back a few pages in this thread, I believe you will find some opinions from experience. Kubota has some helpful hints, he sleeps in it, drinks it, sells it, makes it, writes about it.....ton of experience. :laughing:
> 
> I think also the price would depend on the area you live in, how much your salt costs you per bag / bulk ??? Here where I am, a tonne is $100.00. Per bag at the box store for (40kg) 88 lb. is $10-11 each.


50 gpa at what speed?


----------



## dlocke

*Brine Maker up and running*

Got The brine maker up and running. Let it snow


----------



## Kubota 8540

dlocke;1535938 said:


> Got The brine maker up and running. Let it snow


Interesting design, I know I have seen that some where before? Hmmmmmmm,,,,,,,


----------



## magneto259

I went with a per pound charging to be fairer to the customer since all storms are different. 

At 100 gallons per acre is that just burning off snow or a deicing?

The more I look at the rates i've seen anywhere from 100 gallons a acre to about 325 gallons per acre.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1535936 said:


> 50 gpa at what speed?


IDK !!!! Haven't figured it out yet....instead of measuring speed only, I need to figure where it does the best with the rpm's on the tractor. The manufacturer suggests 7 gpm of oil flow for hydraulic driven pump. So, I need to experiment, and let's say I choose !250 rpm ????. I need to decide which gear range gets me across parking lot spraying the best, most efficient way.....a long way around to say so little....


----------



## dlocke

Of course you do. Great design, Woks awesome. The youtube video was very helpful.


----------



## Kubota 8540

magneto259;1535949 said:


> I went with a per pound charging to be fairer to the customer since all storms are different.
> 
> At 100 gallons per acre is that just burning off snow or a deicing?
> 
> The more I look at the rates i've seen anywhere from 100 gallons a acre to about 325 gallons per acre.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


At 325 gallons per acre they should have used rock salt. That defeats the savings of using a liquid.

The lower the moisture content of the event (snow) the better the liquid works and the less you need to use.


----------



## Kubota 8540

dlocke;1535956 said:


> Of course you do. Great design, Woks awesome. The youtube video was very helpful.


How are you getting the brine out of the top tank after you have made your batch?


----------



## dlocke

Kubota 8540;1535959 said:


> How are you getting the brine out of the top tank after you have made your batch?


Here is a pic of the other side. It has a drain like yours.


----------



## magneto259

Ok thanks kubota. I thought it killed the savings too.

I come up with the 325 number where someone used 45 gallons of liquid and someone chimed in and said they was right on track at 103lbs of salt. That comes out to about 750 lbs of salt to 325 gallons of liquid. 

I'll start at 100 gallons per acre and see what I can burn off from that starting point. Thanks!


----------



## Kubota 8540

I put the 2" higher up on the top tank to avoid salt being sucked up into the tubing.(siphon effect) I didn't have much time to experiment with that portion of the design. It got sold so fast, I only made a couple batches with it.

After thought was to put a sump strainer fitting on it.


----------



## dlocke

Kubota 8540;1535969 said:


> I put the 2" higher up on the top tank to avoid salt being sucked up into the tubing.(siphon effect) I didn't have much time to experiment with that portion of the design. It got sold so fast, I only made a couple batches with it.
> 
> After thought was to put a sump strainer fitting on it.


I used a piece of poly screen and a stainless hose clamp on the inside of the bulkhead fitting.


----------



## terrapro

magneto259;1535967 said:


> Ok thanks kubota. I thought it killed the savings too.
> 
> I come up with the 325 number where someone used 45 gallons of liquid and someone chimed in and said they was right on track at 103lbs of salt. That comes out to about 750 lbs of salt to 325 gallons of liquid.
> 
> I'll start at 100 gallons per acre and see what I can burn off from that starting point. Thanks!


325gal wow! You would be swimming! One of the main points about liquid is reduction of material usage not using the same amount. I don't think I have ever used more than 100gal per acre, even though I used straight LCC in the past.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1536027 said:


> 325gal wow! You would be swimming! One of the main points about liquid is reduction of material usage not using the same amount. I don't think I have ever used more than 100gal per acre, even though I used straight LCC in the past.


At 325 gallon per acre, I think straight water would de-ice it. :laughing:


----------



## magneto259

No kidding.....lol!


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1536095 said:


> At 325 gallon per acre, I think straight water would de-ice it. :laughing:


Finished brine maker tonight. One leak on top of pump...outlet hose barb.  Those 2" hose are made of steel i think. Boy they are a challenge. Filled lower tote with water. Cycled it through to rinse and check for leaks. Will post some pics. Soon as my hydrometer arrives, plans are to make some brine. Thanks for the videos, all helpful info.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

MF 5455;1536527 said:


> Finished brine maker tonight. One leak on top of pump...outlet hose barb.  Those 2" hose are made of steel i think. Boy they are a challenge. Filled lower tote with water. Cycled it through to rinse and check for leaks. Will post some pics. Soon as my hydrometer arrives, plans are to make some brine. Thanks for the videos, all helpful info.


Pics!!

For Kubota, any secrets on getting really stiff hose on to fittings? Lube of choice? Heat gun? I got some pipe thats super stiff so no idea what im gonna do.


----------



## MF 5455

Lynden-Jeff;1536559 said:


> Pics!!
> 
> For Kubota, any secrets on getting really stiff hose on to fittings? Lube of choice? Heat gun? I got some pipe thats super stiff so no idea what im gonna do.


Haha.. I used propane torch on hose, and put dish soap on barb fitting. Still they are a challenge. Ok, gonna try these picture things...still learning how. 

This is pic of electrical conduit fittings I used for bulkhead fittings....$7.50 each.
Will send more


----------



## MF 5455

More of the makings of salt brine machine...

With some trial and error, we managed to put together something economical.

Thanks to Kubota, and others with good suggestions.


----------



## Kubota 8540

The hose goes on real easy, simply use DAWN dish soap on the inside of the hose and a little careful heat from a propane torch on the hose then simply slip it on. No problems then. As far as the stiff pipe........check with the lady of the house about that problem.


----------



## Kubota 8540

We got kind of side tracked here we should have put all the brinemaker stuff in the brinemaker thread. But hey it is as organized as the garage.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1536608 said:


> We got kind of side tracked here we should have put all the brinemaker stuff in the brinemaker thread. But hey it is as organized as the garage.


Oooooops.....sorry about that. Didn't realize I was into another territory.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1536615 said:


> Oooooops.....sorry about that. Didn't realize I was into another territory.


No big deal, I guess this could be sprayer related, after all without a brinemaker what would you spray?


----------



## Kubota 8540

1 small leak isn't bad. I sold one where I forgot to glue a 2" fitting. He had brine EVERYWHERE in a heart beat.

Good thing he had a good sense of humor.


----------



## MF 5455

Yes sir. I think I'll have to take outlet hose off, remove male hose fitting and put more teflon tape on it, or use another fitting. I snugged it down where it seemed tight, not wanting to crack plastic pump housing. Still seeping out around threads.... Probably have to cut the hose off now. Everything sorta fits in place now, and not much room if any to take it off in one piece.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1536630 said:


> Yes sir. I think I'll have to take outlet hose off, remove male hose fitting and put more teflon tape on it, or use another fitting. I snugged it down where it seemed tight, not wanting to crack plastic pump housing. Still seeping out around threads.... Probably have to cut the hose off now. Everything sorta fits in place now, and not much room if any to take it off in one piece.


Use 100% silicone sealant (caulk) (gasket maker sealant) on the threads and let it set over night. It will seal it right up. To much vibration right there for Teflon tape. If you tighten it down too much it WILL crack the housing. Been there.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Housings cost $100. I know this as fact.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I should cut and package the plumbing, valves and fittings as a glue-it-yourself kit and sell to all you Canadians. I could stop building these things with all the money I'd be making. payup


----------



## Kubota 8540

It seems all these parts are hard to get up your way. What? They don't trust you guys with plumbing parts?


----------



## magneto259

Hey Kubota have you ever tried to use flake or pellet calcium chloride to make your 90/10 mix?

I was thinking about trying it with some bagged pellet stuff. But i'll have to figure up the ratio of bagged to LCC. 

My tank is just a 275 gallon square tote. I just jammed a coil of perforated drain pipe in it yesterday to get rid of the rolling effect of the moving liquid.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## magneto259

Well I found a little more info on it. Here is a ratio some else used 250lbs of Peladow per 1000 Gal. Does that sound about right? Thanks!


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

magneto259;1536788 said:


> Well I found a little more info on it. Here is a ratio some else used 250lbs of Peladow per 1000 Gal. Does that sound about right? Thanks!


I think its more then that, possibly 300 lbs but we do not mix our own, someone will be able to answer for you. It is important to start with cold water though as mixing CC will raise the temp of your water, significantly. So much so if you start with warm water it can actually boil and melt your tote.

Cheers


----------



## Kubota 8540

magneto259;1536779 said:


> Hey Kubota have you ever tried to use flake or pellet calcium chloride to make your 90/10 mix?
> 
> I was thinking about trying it with some bagged pellet stuff. But i'll have to figure up the ratio of bagged to LCC.
> 
> My tank is just a 275 gallon square tote. I just jammed a coil of perforated drain pipe in it yesterday to get rid of the rolling effect of the moving liquid.
> 
> Thanks in advance!





magneto259;1536788 said:


> Well I found a little more info on it. Here is a ratio some else used 250lbs of Peladow per 1000 Gal. Does that sound about right? Thanks!


No I have never tried to make my own calcium chloride. I have tried substituting well brine for it but didn't care for it. I have stuck with Liquidow 32%.

I found this on Plowsite some time ago, I'll repost it here.

"First, there is no more Dowflake (78-78%). There is only Dowflake Xtra (83-87%).

Now put 41 lbs. of Dowflake Xtra in 8.2 gallons of water and you will end up with 10 gallons of 32% liquid calcium chloride.

If you wanted to make 250 gallons of 32% calcium chloride, you would need 1036 lbs. of Dowflake Xtra and 206.1 gallons of water.

Also, back to the original ?. In one gallon of water - 4 lbs. Dowflake Xtra and 0.8 gallons of water will give you 1 gallon of 32% cc.

For winter applications, the highest you should attempt to make is a 35% solution. Anything other 35% will fall out of suspension in freezing weather."


----------



## magneto259

Awesome thanks for the help guys. I'll have to get some more buckets....lol! 
I was curious if you could just dump the flake right in the brine solution to mix up but your answers killed that one. And i'll make sure i use cold water!

I'm gonna be using mineral brine and i'm gonna call the supplier to get the spec sheet on it to make sure whats in it.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1536651 said:


> I should cut and package the plumbing, valves and fittings as a glue-it-yourself kit and sell to all you Canadians. I could stop building these things with all the money I'd be making. payup


Haha... What ??? You don't think we CANADIANS "know" how to do anything ????

At least I haven't had salty eyebrows...:laughing:

Maybe you should pre-package for all of us... so much easier...wait a minute.. if it's like the furniture we buy now a days, forget it... it's garbage, and one screw fits all holes, and the manual is 2" thick because there is 10 different languages, and english just seems to be at the back of the book....:realmad: :realmad:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1536888 said:


> Haha... What ??? You don't think we CANADIANS "know" how to do anything ????
> 
> At least I haven't had salty eyebrows...:laughing:
> 
> Maybe you should pre-package for all of us... so much easier...wait a minute.. if it's like the furniture we buy now a days, forget it... it's garbage, and one screw fits all holes, and the manual is 2" thick because there is 10 different languages, and english just seems to be at the back of the book....:realmad: :realmad:


No actually I think most of you are capable. It just seems so many have problems getting parts. 1 pump in a town of 125,000? Geeesh. I generally shop in a town of 18,000 and could come up with 20 pumps at least.

Don't need no manuals. Manuals are for quitters.  I could label the pre-cut pieces and include 1 picture, that should be all that is needed.

10 different languages won't help me if I can't get the one I was raised on perfected.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Awhile back you said I just put lock out valves on for the rookies? I pulled a rookie the other day. I was emptying my 1,000 gallon tank, pumping brine into some totes. Everything was going smooth, stopped the pump to move to the last couple totes that set outside, shut off the hose valve, moved the hose to the tote restarted the pump. Pump started squealing, belt was smoking, motor appeared to be getting hot. I was mad as hell, dam pump went bad, so I was trying to get the pump to spin and it sounded terrible. Did everything I could think of, starting and restarting the pump, holding a piece of wood on the smoking belt to get it tight, then I discovered I forgot to turn the valve back on. First time the pump didn't break fittings or hoses. :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1536898 said:


> No actually I think most of you are capable. It just seems so many have problems getting parts. 1 pump in a town of 125,000? Geeesh. I generally shop in a town of 18,000 and could come up with 20 pumps at least.
> 
> Don't need no manuals. Manuals are for quitters.  I could label the pre-cut pieces and include 1 picture, that should be all that is needed.
> 
> 10 different languages won't help me if I can't get the one I was raised on perfected.


Yes, I know it's ridiculous. I guess their theory is...what would city folk want with a gas engine ??? Just uncommon I guess ? Most people are slaves to the system, and would rather purchase than perhaps do something on their own ????

My hydrometer came today via UPS. It was $13.00 ok . I paid $20.00 shipping, and $23.00 import duty....:realmad: What's wrong with that picture ????

Guess we will have to start making our own hydrometer also :laughing:


----------



## mow 4 u

hey Kubota looking to use mwave 4 channel remote to run 3 way valve for in cab use like the one you posted in #2 at the start of this thread. Kind of an electrical idiot, dont understand much at all, could you explain the wiring of one of these. Recently purchased a unit you built for Hiranger ( Grant from Yates City Illinois). Very nice unit, looking forward to using soon, mother nature cooperating of course !!!!!!!


----------



## Kubota 8540

mow 4 u;1537479 said:


> hey Kubota looking to use mwave 4 channel remote to run 3 way valve for in cab use like the one you posted in #2 at the start of this thread. Kind of an electrical idiot, dont understand much at all, could you explain the wiring of one of these. Recently purchased a unit you built for Hiranger ( Grant from Yates City Illinois). Very nice unit, looking forward to using soon, mother nature cooperating of course !!!!!!!


I know you got a good deal on that sprayer. Thats about what the parts to build it cost. I have the wiring diagram info in the garage, I will get it out tomorrow. Draw you up something and post it for you. You can get your + lead from your trailer plug if you have one. The valve only draws something like 1/4 amp.

The fan spray nozzle covers approx 20 feet.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1537423 said:


> Yes, I know it's ridiculous. I guess their theory is...what would city folk want with a gas engine ??? Just uncommon I guess ? Most people are slaves to the system, and would rather purchase than perhaps do something on their own ????
> 
> My hydrometer came today via UPS. It was $13.00 ok . I paid $20.00 shipping, and $23.00 import duty....:realmad: What's wrong with that picture ????
> 
> Guess we will have to start making our own hydrometer also :laughing:


The cost you guys pay is NUTS.


----------



## mow 4 u

Thanks Jim (aka Kubota), looking forward to that post. Your knowledge and willingness to share is muchly appreciated !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## magneto259

I went down to talk to the guy in my town that sells mineral brine yesterday. He said tons of locals use it and the city municipalities as well. For ten cents a gallon im on board! I asked him about mixing it 90/10 and he was against it and said there was no need. Their brine is the same used for dust control.

A pretty big local landscaper shares the building with him whom I know. He said on his spray rig its just gravity fed and it works great???????? I dunno I told him im running a pump on mine. He also said for his in cab shutoff control he is using a electric car window motor. He said he got the idea from the city fellas.


----------



## Kubota 8540

magneto259;1537705 said:


> I went down to talk to the guy in my town that sells mineral brine yesterday. He said tons of locals use it and the city municipalities as well. For ten cents a gallon im on board! I asked him about mixing it 90/10 and he was against it and said there was no need. Their brine is the same used for dust control.
> 
> A pretty big local landscaper shares the building with him whom I know. He said on his spray rig its just gravity fed and it works great???????? I dunno I told him im running a pump on mine. He also said for his in cab shutoff control he is using a electric car window motor. He said he got the idea from the city fellas.


If you were a Chevy Truck dealership and I was a Steady customer of your's and I purchase 10 trucks a month from you. Then I have this idea that now I should buy 1 Ford a month and the other 9 Chevys from you, What would you tell me? You would tell me you was against it and said there was no need to do that..

The reason I make salt brine / calcium chloride 90/10 blend has a few different reasons. Well brine /mineral brine around my area cost approx 60 cents+ per gallon, liquidow cost 60+ cents per gallon, other liquids 1.00+ per gallon, and NONE of my customers like their lots to remain wet or damp. Its a combination of cost reduction and performance delivering. So 90/10 it is and it cost about 15-17 cents per gallon.

Gravity feed system will work, but a system with a pump delivers more even / steady flow of liquids from beginning to end of tank load . For a shut off valve you could just run the boom hose to the cab and crimp the hose, just depends on what you have to work with, how much your willing to spend, and how convenient you would like your system to be.


----------



## magneto259

> If you were a Chevy Truck dealership and I was a Steady customer of your's and I purchase 10 trucks a month from you. Then I have this idea that now I should buy 1 Ford a month and the other 9 Chevys from you, What would you tell me? You would tell me you was against it and said there was no need to do that..


I know exactly what you are saying. He is a salesman trying to get some sales.

My main intention of going out there was to get the chemical composition of their mineral brine mix. It has calcium chloride in it among other things but i dont recall the exact percentage.

Thanks!


----------



## ndnchief

1400 pounds of Peladow to 356 gallons of water makes 400 gallons of 29.6 percent Liquid Calcium Chloride At $ 800.00 a pallet that works out to one dollar a gallon of LCC


----------



## MF 5455

For you Kubota.... what kind of hose do you use for your discharge from tote. Will the roll up kind work, or is it necessary to use the heavy duty kind like on the transfer pump ?
I want to fill my other totes from the brine maker.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1537908 said:


> For you Kubota.... what kind of hose do you use for your discharge from tote. Will the roll up kind work, or is it necessary to use the heavy duty kind like on the transfer pump ?
> I want to fill my other totes from the brine maker.


I found it easier to use the hard suction hose. But the roll up kind will work, just a PITA.


----------



## MF 5455

Thanks Kubota... I purchased the caulking you suggested for the threaded barb fitting, I left it set up all day, tried tonight and....taalaa, it works. Thanks again for helpful hints.

I'm ready to make brine now. I was going back through some threads reading some of your recommendations. Is it fair to say that I should purchase some calcium chloride flakes ???, and mix it 10 %, 90 % rock salt, than my 400 gallons of water ? I'm trying to get water close to 60 deg., so the hydrometer reads as accurate as possible.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1538101 said:


> Thanks Kubota... I purchased the caulking you suggested for the threaded barb fitting, I left it set up all day, tried tonight and....taalaa, it works. Thanks again for helpful hints.
> 
> I'm ready to make brine now. I was going back through some threads reading some of your recommendations. Is it fair to say that I should purchase some calcium chloride flakes ???, and mix it 10 %, 90 % rock salt, than my 400 gallons of water ? I'm trying to get water close to 60 deg., so the hydrometer reads as accurate as possible.


I have never just added flake into the brine. I have always used liquid calcium chloride and added 10% by volume which worked well for me. I posted a recipe for making LCC, number of pounds per gallon either in this thread or the brinemaker thread a day or two ago.

I copied this off Plowsite some time ago and I am reposting it here:::

First, there is no more Dowflake (78-78%). There is only Dowflake Xtra (83-87%).

Now put 41 lbs. of Dowflake Xtra in 8.2 gallons of water and you will end up with 10 gallons of 32% liquid calcium chloride.

If you wanted to make 250 gallons of 32% calcium chloride, you would need 1036 lbs. of Dowflake Xtra and 206.1 gallons of water.

Also, back to the original ?. In one gallon of water - 4 lbs. Dowflake Xtra and 0.8 gallons of water will give you 1 gallon of 32% cc.

For winter applications, the highest you should attempt to make is a 35% solution. Anything other 35% will fall out of suspension in freezing weather.

But you could always experiment like a mad scientist and if you survive then post your results?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1538536 said:


> I have never just added flake into the brine. I have always used liquid calcium chloride and added 10% by volume which worked well for me. I posted a recipe for making LCC, number of pounds per gallon either in this thread or the brinemaker thread a day or two ago.
> 
> I copied this off Plowsite some time ago and I am reposting it here:::
> 
> First, there is no more Dowflake (78-78%). There is only Dowflake Xtra (83-87%).
> 
> Now put 41 lbs. of Dowflake Xtra in 8.2 gallons of water and you will end up with 10 gallons of 32% liquid calcium chloride.
> 
> If you wanted to make 250 gallons of 32% calcium chloride, you would need 1036 lbs. of Dowflake Xtra and 206.1 gallons of water.
> 
> Also, back to the original ?. In one gallon of water - 4 lbs. Dowflake Xtra and 0.8 gallons of water will give you 1 gallon of 32% cc.
> 
> For winter applications, the highest you should attempt to make is a 35% solution. Anything other 35% will fall out of suspension in freezing weather.
> 
> But you could always experiment like a mad scientist and if you survive then post your results?


...totally confused now, sorry. What happened to the salt brine mixture ? My thoughts were to mix in proportion the 2.28 lbs. of salt / gallon of water to give the gallons needed at 23.3% / 1.179 s.g. Is the liquid calcium chloride added to the salt brine after it is mixed ? Is the ONLY reason calc. chloride is used is to lower the freezing point of the brine ? I feel like a school kid asking all these questions, but won't know if ya don't ask.


----------



## terrapro

Yes, or all I have found. And from my research and experience the the only reason why there is a difference in application rates between straight LCC and a sodium brine is that LCC is usally around 28-32% and sodium brine is 23.5% so it takes more to dilute the LCC when applied.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Is the liquid calcium chloride added to the salt brine after it is mixed ? Yes

Is the ONLY reason calc. chloride is used is to lower the freezing point of the brine ? Yes

I feel like a school kid asking all these questions, but won't know if ya don't ask.Yes again


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1538779 said:


> Is the liquid calcium chloride added to the salt brine after it is mixed ? Yes
> 
> Is the ONLY reason calc. chloride is used is to lower the freezing point of the brine ? Yes
> 
> I feel like a school kid asking all these questions, but won't know if ya don't ask.Yes again


Haha...In the video you have on youtube..(.the one of the 400 gallon), did you also add the calcium chloride later on ?? not at all ? If the freezing point of this salt brine at 23.3% is 6 deg., than why must the calcium chloride be added ? I have a hundred more of these coming.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1538792 said:


> Haha...In the video you have on youtube..(.the one of the 400 gallon), did you also add the calcium chloride later on ?? not at all ? If the freezing point of this salt brine at 23.3% is 6 deg., than why must the calcium chloride be added ? I have a hundred more of these coming.


I always add my liquid calcium chloride after I pump the salt brine into my totes or storage tanks.

Dunno? But when you spray straight salt brine on a pavement with a surface temp of 15F it slushes up for a little while then goes back to melting. Don't know why it does but it does. Adding 10% LCC by volume to the salt brine eliminates all problems and I spray 90/10 on everything down to a surface temp of 5F . 5F and below gets LCC sprayed on it.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1538799 said:


> I always add my liquid calcium chloride after I pump the salt brine into my totes or storage tanks.
> 
> Dunno? But when you spray straight salt brine on a pavement with a surface temp of 15F it slushes up for a little while then goes back to melting. Don't know why it does but it does. Adding 10% LCC by volume to the salt brine eliminates all problems and I spray 90/10 on everything down to a surface temp of 5F . 5F and below gets LCC sprayed on it.


Ok. I'm seeing the light. So, let's say you made your 400 gallons of brine. I need 10 % C.C. added. That makes it 40 gallons. I do not know if I can purchase liquid c.c. here. Have to check around. I know I have seen it in bags as flakes tho.

Can the 32 % c.c. also be checked with the hydrometer that's used for brine making ?


----------



## MF 5455

This is what came packaged with my hydrometer...not sure I understand why this is different than a chart I found on line. Kubota suggests that at 23.3% brine is good down to 5 deg ???

The chart with hydrometer says 23% sodium chloride (salt brine) will freeze at approx. 26 deg ??? Is there a difference somewhere I'm not seeing ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1538816 said:


> Ok. I'm seeing the light. So, let's say you made your 400 gallons of brine. I need 10 % C.C. added. That makes it 40 gallons. I do not know if I can purchase liquid c.c. here. Have to check around. I know I have seen it in bags as flakes tho.
> 
> Can the 32 % c.c. also be checked with the hydrometer that's used for brine making ?


Correct. And there usually isnt room in the brinemaker to add another 40 gallon, so I do that in the totes or tanks.

You can make your own LCC by following the recipe above. Someone said it ends up costing about a dollar a gallon to make your own. But in Canadian dollars I think that might be 13? :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1538851 said:


> Correct. And there usually isnt room in the brinemaker to add another 40 gallon, so I do that in the totes or tanks.
> 
> You can make your own LCC by following the recipe above. Someone said it ends up costing about a dollar a gallon to make your own. But in Canadian dollars I think that might be 13? :laughing:


:laughing::laughing: You mean our play money ??? Perhaps I will try mixing up some flakes to see how it turns out. I guess they will melt when you introduce them to water ??? Empty out my brine maker, and try mixing in upper tank only.

No wonder this stuff will kill a vehicle. Enough corrosion here to eat up the whole vehicle. I better do some more undercoating.


----------



## terrapro

MF 5455;1538871 said:


> :laughing::laughing: You mean our play money ??? Perhaps I will try mixing up some flakes to see how it turns out. I guess they will melt when you introduce them to water ??? Empty out my brine maker, and try mixing in upper tank only.
> 
> No wonder this stuff will kill a vehicle. Enough corrosion here to eat up the whole vehicle. I better do some more undercoating.


From what I understand In short LCC is hygroscopic which means it attracts water and will hold more water then normal to a surface increasing the oxidation of metals or "rusting".


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1538871 said:


> :laughing::laughing: You mean our play money ??? Perhaps I will try mixing up some flakes to see how it turns out. I guess they will melt when you introduce them to water ??? Empty out my brine maker, and try mixing in upper tank only.
> 
> No wonder this stuff will kill a vehicle. Enough corrosion here to eat up the whole vehicle. I better do some more undercoating.


You can always throw in a kids old bicycle as a sacrifice first. Feeds the salt and attracts all the corrosion.


----------



## spiviter

I am looking to find out where i can get some dye to add to my brine to color it.


----------



## mow 4 u

blue colorant that is used for lawn spraying applications works well. 2-3 ounces per 100 gallons of fluid. p m me I will give you exact manufacturer.


----------



## MF 5455

spiviter;1538964 said:


> I am looking to find out where i can get some dye to add to my brine to color it.


How about food coloring ??? Could always boil some black walnuts, and use the water from that....it's black, and when we used it on our traps, they WILL NOT rust . Kinda stains them I guess. Thumbs Up


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Has anyone had issues with dyes staining? I inquired about an organic non staining dye from a company in Michigan. Temped to add one.


----------



## MF 5455

Hi guys...

I made some brine tonight....well maybe syrup ???? I have 400+ gallons of water in totes...added 10 bags of salt, each weighing 88 lbs, for a total of 880 lbs. of salt.

The water temp dropped from 62 deg. down to low 50's because I added some fresh water after salt was put in. All the salt appears to be dissolved, and so I checked brine with hydrometer....it reads like 57-58 ???? What did I do wrong, or what didn't I do correctly ???


----------



## terrapro

MF 5455;1540724 said:


> Hi guys...
> 
> I made some brine tonight....well maybe syrup ???? I have 400+ gallons of water in totes...added 10 bags of salt, each weighing 88 lbs, for a total of 880 lbs. of salt.
> 
> The water temp dropped from 62 deg. down to low 50's because I added some fresh water after salt was put in. All the salt appears to be dissolved, and so I checked brine with hydrometer....it reads like 57-58 ???? What did I do wrong, or what didn't I do correctly ???


Sounds like you have the wrong type of salinimeter. If you wouldve added about 100lbs more salt you shouldve been around the 75-78 mark and you would be in the % you were looking for.

Im sure Kubota will chime in shortly.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1540724 said:


> Hi guys...
> 
> I made some brine tonight....well maybe syrup ???? I have 400+ gallons of water in totes...added 10 bags of salt, each weighing 88 lbs, for a total of 880 lbs. of salt.
> 
> The water temp dropped from 62 deg. down to low 50's because I added some fresh water after salt was put in. All the salt appears to be dissolved, and so I checked brine with hydrometer....it reads like 57-58 ???? What did I do wrong, or what didn't I do correctly ???


Maybe this will help









More salt.


----------



## MF 5455

terrapro;1540743 said:


> Sounds like you have the wrong type of salinimeter. If you wouldve added about 100lbs more salt you shouldve been around the 75-78 mark and you would be in the % you were looking for.
> 
> Im sure Kubota will chime in shortly.


Ok. Thanks...totally confused now.

My salometer (sodium chloride)....percent saturation @ 60 deg. fah. This is whats marked on the inside of bulb.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1540765 said:


> Ok. Thanks...totally confused now.
> 
> My salometer (sodium chloride)....percent saturation @ 60 deg. fah. This is whats marked on the inside of bulb.


You can use it , it will be fine. Check out the chart above. You need to add more salt.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Hydrometer can be used, it measures specific gravity. (you want 1.176 sg)

Salinometer % saturation = scale is read 0-100% (you want 85%)

Salinometer Weight of salt dissolved in water = scale reads 0-26.5% (you want 23.3%)


----------



## Kubota 8540

But.....if you did make syrup.....please send me some......yum


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1540777 said:


> But.....if you did make syrup.....please send me some......yum


Haha... you guys are a life saver for me. Thank you very much.

Ok than, I will add more salt tomorrow, maybe 1 bag ??? Or should I go half of bag at one time ? Than check it.

Good Canadian syrup...a little briney though. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1540799 said:


> Haha... you guys are a life saver for me. Thank you very much.
> 
> Ok than, I will add more salt tomorrow, maybe 1 bag ??? Or should I go half of bag at one time ? Than check it.
> 
> Good Canadian syrup...a little briney though. :laughing:


The thing about brine is if your reading gets to high all you have to do is add water, if your reading is to low just add more salt. Keep track of how many gallons water and how many pounds or bags you use and the next batches become easier.

With you using 88 pound bags I would say to add half a bag at a time because 1 whole bag weighs to much for me,,,,:laughing:


----------



## terrapro

Good save Kubota!

I have a new one that I am trying to figure out now! My boom is 8ft with 6" single stream spacing. I want to add more width. I want to add additional spray potential, I have two extra electric solenoids available. I was thinking if I add a riser from the end of my boom(so I don't increase actual width of boom) with a 1/2" hose attached activated by their own solenoid valve for each side. I would like to add another 3' either side if not 4'. That means at 3' I need 6 more streams for example. Home do I achieve that with appropiate nozzles? Municpalities have it so I know it can be done. I just need to know how to do it!


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1540809 said:


> The thing about brine is if your reading gets to high all you have to do is add water, if your reading is to low just add more salt. Keep track of how many gallons water and how many pounds or bags you use and the next batches become easier.
> 
> With you using 88 pound bags I would say to add half a bag at a time because 1 whole bag weighs to much for me,,,,:laughing:


You're right about that. After putting 10 of those bags in, I felt like a heavyweight ...wesport.

I left heater in garage close to 70 for the night, hoping the water will be up closer to 60 again by morning. I did make a mistake while building my brine maker. Will elaborate tomorrow...off to bed... another job to do tomorrow.

Thanks again guys. You Americans are ok people, I don't care what anyone says.:laughing::laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1540817 said:


> Good save Kubota!
> 
> I have a new one that I am trying to figure out now! My boom is 8ft with 6" single stream spacing. I want to add more width. I want to add additional spray potential, I have two extra electric solenoids available. I was thinking if I add a riser from the end of my boom(so I don't increase actual width of boom) with a 1/2" hose attached activated by their own solenoid valve for each side. I would like to add another 3' either side if not 4'. That means at 3' I need 6 more streams for example. Home do I achieve that with appropiate nozzles? Municpalities have it so I know it can be done. I just need to know how to do it!


That's an easy one. I love answering the easy ones.

















I have only 3 adjustable nozzles and achieve 3-4 feet extra width. But I increased the flow by using a $0.79 -1/4" hose barb rather than a $6 single stream nozzle


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1540809 said:


> The thing about brine is if your reading gets to high all you have to do is add water, if your reading is to low just add more salt. Keep track of how many gallons water and how many pounds or bags you use and the next batches become easier.
> 
> With you using 88 pound bags I would say to add half a bag at a time because 1 whole bag weighs to much for me,,,,:laughing:


Isnt it impossible to over saturate as the max sat point at regular temperatures is 23.3?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1541043 said:


> Isnt it impossible to over saturate as the max sat point at regular temperatures is 23.3?


Max saturation is 26.5%. At that saturation %, salt brine will freeze at 32F. Just like water does, even though you have dissolved all that salt into the water.


----------



## terrapro

Kubota 8540;1541058 said:


> Max saturation is 26.5%. At that saturation %, salt brine will freeze at 32F. Just like water does, even though you have dissolved all that salt into the water.


I havn't been able to wrap my head around that one yet. Must be related to putting salt on ice to make it colder thing.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1541061 said:


> I havn't been able to wrap my head around that one yet. Must be related to putting salt on ice to make it colder thing.


It is a process of getting the max performance of a product. Just like anti-freeze. Great product but you have to add /mix water with it to get it's max benefits.

I think this is where the term weird science comes from.


----------



## MF 5455

Hi guys...

I think I'm there.

The water temp in my brine maker is 56 deg right now. The hydrometer is reading 82-83 % saturation. I added (today) another 88 lb. bag of salt. I think I'll leave it until water temp is 60 than check again what reading is. I want it as close as possible to have the most effect on the ice / snow. What snow ???? It's been raining here for 2 days...40 deg.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1541199 said:


> Hi guys...
> 
> I think I'm there.
> 
> The water temp in my brine maker is 56 deg right now. The hydrometer is reading 82-83 % saturation. I added (today) another 88 lb. bag of salt. I think I'll leave it until water temp is 60 than check again what reading is. I want it as close as possible to have the most effect on the ice / snow. What snow ???? It's been raining here for 2 days...40 deg.


Raining for 2 days? What now? Simple. Go buy a squeegee and replace the cutting edge on the plow with the new squeegee and your in business. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

Do you have a sprayer ready to go?


----------



## leon

*hydrometer*



MF 5455;1529329 said:


> Thank you sir. I will go to princess Auto tomorrow and make them squirm :laughing: I think it's too expensive also, just trying to get some opinions from you friends. The sales person told me that a hydrometer (i think is used) is not an accurate tool for measuring the brine. I asked a simple question to him about me mixing my own....he was full of discouraging words about it..


You do not want to use anything but a glass saline hydrometer from Mcmaster Carr
and a glass hydrometer jar that has 1,000 milliliters capacity.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1541206 said:


> Do you have a sprayer ready to go?


Going to Pa. on Thursday to pick up my sprayer. (3 point hitch) Just got home, checked temp of brine, (59) and hydrometer reading is 85 % saturation.  Gonna transfer into storage totes, and start another batch. I do have some concern regarding junk in the brine. I used a screen to scoop most of it from the surface, now I think it's mostly just the dirty foam...I can just see myself at 2 in the morning unclogging spray tips, and it will be windy, cold, snowing, and running behind schedule...

I better do the preventive, and screen it as it's put into other totes.


----------



## MF 5455

...also working on sprayer for the v-box in back of dump truck. I have a good 55 gallon barrel that I thought about using. Not sure about a valve or fitting for it, but maybe another bulkhead type, or just run a weighted hose through a bung on top and use it that way. Still in the experimenting stage, and don't want to spend anymore right now...wife says...maybe slow down on the equipment, I might want a new coat or something for the house. :crying:


----------



## MF 5455

I checked today on calcium chloride. I can only seem to find it dry in bags...44 lbs. (20 kg.)

Per bag is $ 19.00. That will add up in a hurry...cha ching payup Approx. 1 bag will give me 10 gallons, so 4 bags mixed for 400 gallons of brine. $85.00 with tax. Hmmm, that's $2,12 gallon. Gotta do better than that !!!! Back to the drawing board.


----------



## terrapro

leon;1541226 said:


> You do not want to use anything but a glass saline hydrometer from Mcmaster Carr
> and a glass hydrometer jar that has 1,000 milliliters capacity.


Do you know which one? They look pretty cheap, all under $20 or so.


----------



## MF 5455

terrapro;1541413 said:


> Do you know which one? They look pretty cheap, all under $20 or so.


I bought mine out of the u.s. Company by the name of Butcher and Packer. They are located in Madison Heights, Michigan. They are $15.00 each. Certification papers with them. The case is plastic, but it doesn't leak ???? Good enough for me.


----------



## MF 5455

Started my second batch of brine tonight. I have learned a few things through trial and error, so it will get better as I make more.

I do have some difficulty with the 5- 2" hoses running from overflow to second tote. They will not keep up with the volume of flow from the transfer pump. I had to idle engine way down, and open suction line from main salt tote as well. If not....well it would just overflow. :laughing:

If I built another salt tote, I would be inclined to go with 3" bulkheads, or custom build an opening capable of moving the water quicker from one tote to other.

I think a much smaller pump would perhaps do the job, although that means 1" in and out, and that would be a hindrance. 

Overall, I'm happy with it, and thanks to Kubota for his generosity and unselfish time, and the rest of you guys with your excellent opinions. I feel independent, and don't have to pay for someone else high priced mineral brine.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1541760 said:


> Started my second batch of brine tonight. I have learned a few things through trial and error, so it will get better as I make more.
> 
> I do have some difficulty with the 5- 2" hoses running from overflow to second tote. They will not keep up with the volume of flow from the transfer pump. I had to idle engine way down, and open suction line from main salt tote as well. If not....well it would just overflow. :laughing:
> 
> If I built another salt tote, I would be inclined to go with 3" bulkheads, or custom build an opening capable of moving the water quicker from one tote to other.
> 
> I think a much smaller pump would perhaps do the job, although that means 1" in and out, and that would be a hindrance.
> 
> Overall, I'm happy with it, and thanks to Kubota for his generosity and unselfish time, and the rest of you guys with your excellent opinions. I feel independent, and don't have to pay for someone else high priced mineral brine.


It's not the size or number of overflow tubes, it's location, location, location. They should have been just under the cage rail of where you put yours. They should have been cut in about 3" lower than where you located them. Just ROOKIE stuff. :laughing: When I did that, I had made the mistake of starting the pump then leaving the room. Messy.


----------



## Kubota 8540

What really funny is when your pumping out the salt brine after making a batch and thinking the 2" hose will just stay in the tote your pumping into. Then when you start the pump that 2" hose jumps out and is squirting 190 gallons a minute every where except in that tote.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1541781 said:


> It's not the size or number of overflow tubes, it's location, location, location. They should have been just under the cage rail of where you put yours. They should have been cut in about 3" lower than where you located them. Just ROOKIE stuff. :laughing: When I did that, I had made the mistake of starting the pump then leaving the room. Messy.


Haha... you are absolutely correct. Now I know why you put your salt tote up so much higher, and why your bulkheads are lower than mine....rookie is right !!!! I blame you for not explaining better...:laughing::laughing:

I think you put yours right at the 200 gal. marker line ???

Don't want to ruin a good tote, so will work with it for this year. Just takes a bit longer to make the brine running at a slower speed.


----------



## MF 5455

Made second batch of brine today. Went much smoother, quicker, good results on the hydrometer. Water temp is around 56 deg., and saturation around 88 %. Will allow to warm up to 60 and check again. Sounds as though some of you guys will be out plowing, salting / spraying with the storm tracking across the midwest u.s.

Good luck, be safe


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1542644 said:


> Made second batch of brine today. Went much smoother, quicker, good results on the hydrometer. Water temp is around 56 deg., and saturation around 88 %. Will allow to warm up to 60 and check again. Sounds as though some of you guys will be out plowing, salting / spraying with the storm tracking across the midwest u.s.
> 
> Good luck, be safe


It was a DUD, 40 mph winds and flurries here. Was able to pay for my gas, salt, and 2 cinnamon rolls? Better luck next time.


----------



## magneto259

I got lucky and squirted some liquid on a lot.


----------



## leon

*brine*



terrapro;1541413 said:


> Do you know which one? They look pretty cheap, all under $20 or so.


=======================================================================

The one I bought was the 4099K17 I think, 
It also has one one percent gradations.

The 1,000 Milliliter glass hydrometer jar gives a better gross 
volume and the hydrometer spins easily to eliminate the
air bubbles that are normally attached to the hydrometer 
prior to spinning it to assure proper measurement.

You can purchase the glass hydrometer jars from Presque Isle Wines
in Erie, PA. They are worth the money.

When doing samples it is best to measure the chloride content of the 
1,000 Milliliter brine sample is 60 degrees to avoid any issues.

The glass hydrometer jar is not Pyrex-unless you ask for for one specifically.
I stayed away from the medical grade plastic hydrometer jars because they 
are not clear and of course will bleed into the brine where the 
1,000 Ml glass hydrometer is inert and easy to clean.


----------



## MF 5455

leon;1544574 said:


> =======================================================================
> 
> The one I bought was the 4099K17 I think,
> It also has one one percent gradations.
> 
> The 1,000 Milliliter glass hydrometer jar gives a better gross
> volume and the hydrometer spins easily to eliminate the
> air bubbles that are normally attached to the hydrometer
> prior to spinning it to assure proper measurement.
> 
> You can purchase the glass hydrometer jars from Presque Isle Wines
> in Erie, PA. They are worth the money.
> 
> When doing samples it is best to measure the chloride content of the
> 1,000 Milliliter brine sample is 60 degrees to avoid any issues.
> 
> The glass hydrometer jar is not Pyrex-unless you ask for for one specifically.
> I stayed away from the medical grade plastic hydrometer jars because they
> are not clear and of course will bleed into the brine where the
> 1,000 Ml glass hydrometer is inert and easy to clean.


Good info....but does it really matter if it's a glass, plastic, 5 gallon bucket ? My hydrometer reads the same if I fill the beaker and check saturation, or if I allow it to rest in the tote brine.


----------



## leon

*brine*

If you do not have the meniscus level visible to you at eye level
where you can check it even sitting to verify the saturation 
reading all is for naught.

The 1,0000 Milliliter hydrometer jar is much easier to use to 
determine the saturation point as it has a very large volume of 
liquid to settle into and the base is very stable versus the typically 
small glass or plastic hydrometer jars-been there done that, broken glass.


----------



## Kubota 8540

If I were snorting it or injecting it, I would certainly insist on glass. However, I am simply spraying it on a parking lot. The salt used is generally of low level of purity to start with considering we are using bulk de-icing salt. So once again plastic or glass will be fine. The tanks the brine are stored in are generally not stainless steel and are just a type of plastic. There are even poly hydrometers.

"meniscus level visible to you at eye level" is the most important. But even with that, if you are off 1 % you will only lose a few degrees of it's full capability. Perhaps instead of -6F it will only be 0 F. 

Happy brine making !!!!!!


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Not to change the subject, but has anyone had better luck using nozzles that stream directly down opposed to something like a boomless fan nozzles? (Which we are currently using..) Debating on making the switch...


----------



## Kubota 8540

BigBoyPlowin;1545697 said:


> Not to change the subject, but has anyone had better luck using nozzles that stream directly down opposed to something like a boomless fan nozzles? (Which we are currently using..) Debating on making the switch...


Stream type nozzles work best in de-icing.

Fan and boomless fan work fine in anti-icing but stream type work just as well.

So for all around use, I always use stream type.


----------



## MF 5455

well...didn't get my sprayer, yet. Got up to leave Thurs morning at 4 am. Checked weather, it said 8 inches....so we de- throttled, slid to a screeching stop, activated parking brake. I wasn't feeling so hot physically either. Woke up few hours later, boy was I sick. :crying:

We didn't get the 8"...maybe 2-3 total. Did manage to go out and do some slipping and sliding in the slush for a few hrs and than back to bed. Still feeling like a Mack truck ran over me...

So, if all goes well, we shall endeavor to leave Wed morning (day after Christmas) if the sick are better, and no snow showing.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1545819 said:


> well...didn't get my sprayer, yet. Got up to leave Thurs morning at 4 am. Checked weather, it said 8 inches....so we de- throttled, slid to a screeching stop, activated parking brake. I wasn't feeling so hot physically either. Woke up few hours later, boy was I sick. :crying:
> 
> We didn't get the 8"...maybe 2-3 total. Did manage to go out and do some slipping and sliding in the slush for a few hrs and than back to bed. Still feeling like a Mack truck ran over me...
> 
> So, if all goes well, we shall endeavor to leave Wed morning (day after Christmas) if the sick are better, and no snow showing.


Around here it's all the girls. Grand daughter, wife, grand ma ALL sick. None of the guys?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1545831 said:


> Around here it's all the girls. Grand daughter, wife, grand ma ALL sick. None of the guys?


really, huh ? I thought I was a guy, at least use to think so ???? Mb I better check again. :laughing:

Several around here have the flu also, but I wasn't sick to the stomach. I ached every where, and lower back felt like someone had knife in there twisting it.

Boy I could have used that sprayer this weekend. That slush turned to ice on me, and had heck of a time getting it gone. If I could have sprayed before the storm, perhaps it would have cleaned up much better.

Thinking about the pre wetting again...maybe put flat bed on dumper, 500 gallon tank for brine, and use small v box with just straight salt. Have boom with spray, and still spread salt. Choke the v box and only allow small amount to be spread on top of liquid....what do you think ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1545850 said:


> really, huh ? I thought I was a guy, at least use to think so ???? Mb I better check again. :laughing:
> 
> Several around here have the flu also, but I wasn't sick to the stomach. I ached every where, and lower back felt like someone had knife in there twisting it.
> 
> Boy I could have used that sprayer this weekend. That slush turned to ice on me, and had heck of a time getting it gone. If I could have sprayed before the storm, perhaps it would have cleaned up much better.
> 
> Thinking about the pre wetting again...maybe put flat bed on dumper, 500 gallon tank for brine, and use small v box with just straight salt. Have boom with spray, and still spread salt. Choke the v box and only allow small amount to be spread on top of liquid....what do you think ?


It would be a great idea. I have been saying that for the last couple winters. An all-in-one.


----------



## Kubota 8540

There are times and places in parking lots where all you need is liquid and at the other end of the same parking lot rock salt would work best. Having an all in one set up, capable of spreading rock salt by it self, spreading rock salt pre-wet w/ small pump, spraying only, or spraying topped by small volume rock salt ALL ONE 1 TRUCK


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1545862 said:


> There are times and places in parking lots where all you need is liquid and at the other end of the same parking lot rock salt would work best. Having an all in one set up, capable of spreading rock salt by it self, spreading rock salt pre-wet w/ small pump, spraying only, or spraying topped by small volume rock salt ALL ONE 1 TRUCK


Yes sir. Have to keep my eyes open for 12 foot deck. That way I can still pull my big trailer if need be. I found a used one in southern pa. in the fall, but it was gone by time i was ready to get it. ($450.00) Looked at used deck from propane truck here at junk yard and they want $3,500.00. That's a crime. :realmad:

Having something like you said all in one, with each being independent of the other would also be great idea. Would sure love to have main boom pump and salt spreader work off central hydraulics... pre wet pump 12 volt.

Have to put a drawing on paper, and get some costs together on a unit total. I have stainless v box already. Need tank, fittings and pump, valves, switches


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1545872 said:


> Yes sir. Have to keep my eyes open for 12 foot deck. That way I can still pull my big trailer if need be. I found a used one in southern pa. in the fall, but it was gone by time i was ready to get it. ($450.00) Looked at used deck from propane truck here at junk yard and they want $3,500.00. That's a crime. :realmad:
> 
> Having something like you said all in one, with each being independent of the other would also be great idea. Would sure love to have main boom pump and salt spreader work off central hydraulics... pre wet pump 12 volt. Absolutely possible, just built 2 sprayers for a city here in Illinois, that were both 2" poly hydraulic driven
> 
> Have to put a drawing on paper, and get some costs together on a unit total. I have stainless v box already. Need tank, fittings and pump, valves, switches


Dultmeier sells the hydraulic poly pumps, nice units


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1545880 said:


> Dultmeier sells the hydraulic poly pumps, nice units


Ok. Didn't know they were readily available. I think I could convert to this type with by passing the lift cylinder on the dump. Mine is air activated now, right off side of transmission.

Do I need to get spec numbers off truck somewhere so I can adapt, or are they one size fits all ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1545891 said:


> Ok. Didn't know they were readily available. I think I could convert to this type with by passing the lift cylinder on the dump. Mine is air activated now, right off side of transmission.
> 
> Do I need to get spec numbers off truck somewhere so I can adapt, or are they one size fits all ?


No, these pumps will work with either open center or closed center hydraulics. Pump and hyd flow is adjustable on the pump to get optimum liquid salt flow and pressure. The city project used their hydraulics that run their spinners to run the pumps.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1545899 said:


> No, these pumps will work with either open center or closed center hydraulics. Pump and hyd flow is adjustable on the pump to get optimum liquid salt flow and pressure. The city project used their hydraulics that run their spinners to run the pumps.


I wonder if I could make a change over from the gas engine running the v box to hydraulic ?

Perhaps the cost of that would be prohibitive.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1545917 said:


> I wonder if I could make a change over from the gas engine running the v box to hydraulic ?
> 
> Perhaps the cost of that would be prohibitive.


I think there has been guys here on plowsite that has done that. I know they have switched over to electric.

I think it would be affordable to get a hydraulic motor to use and make that switch.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1545928 said:


> I think there has been guys here on plowsite that has done that. I know they have switched over to electric.
> 
> I think it would be affordable to get a hydraulic motor to use and make that switch.


Biggest mistake I made when purchase of the v-box was to buy one that didn't have a flip up chute and spinner. Now if I need to pull trailer, I have to take spreader out, do my thing and than put it back in....not fun, plus it's usually plenty wet, cold and time consuming.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

BigBoyPlowin;1545697 said:


> Not to change the subject, but has anyone had better luck using nozzles that stream directly down opposed to something like a boomless fan nozzles? (Which we are currently using..) Debating on making the switch...


What tips would you recommend if we were going to switch to a stream type nozzle boom. Here is our current setup on one of our biggest trucks...Spraying curb to curb..


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1545949 said:


> Biggest mistake I made when purchase of the v-box was to buy one that didn't have a flip up chute and spinner. Now if I need to pull trailer, I have to take spreader out, do my thing and than put it back in....not fun, plus it's usually plenty wet, cold and time consuming.


I did the same thing, but I just didn't want to spend the extra money on the flip up. Now I wish I had of.


----------



## Kubota 8540

BigBoyPlowin;1546224 said:


> What tips would you recommend if we were going to switch to a stream type nozzle boom. Here is our current setup on one of our biggest trucks...Spraying curb to curb..


Depending on the distance you need to spray, teejet triple tips or single stream nozzles. (or both)

http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.823.4461

http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.823.4458


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1546225 said:


> I did the same thing, but I just didn't want to spend the extra money on the flip up. Now I wish I had of.


...hindsight is always 20/20. I didn't even think about it or guess I wasn't sure it was available.

I am not having any luck finding hydraulic poly pump from Dultmeier's. Perhaps too many kids on the internet...:laughing:

Could you possibly send link to the hydraulic pump you are referring to per our conversation pertaining to the dump truck please ?????


----------



## EliteSnow&Ice

MF 5455;1546485 said:


> ...hindsight is always 20/20. I didn't even think about it or guess I wasn't sure it was available.
> 
> I am not having any luck finding hydraulic poly pump from Dultmeier's. Perhaps too many kids on the internet...:laughing:
> 
> Could you possibly send link to the hydraulic pump you are referring to per our conversation pertaining to the dump truck please ?????


like this?

http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.851.863.2033.5154/1470


----------



## MF 5455

EliteSnow&Ice;1546503 said:


> like this?
> 
> http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.851.863.2033.5154/1470


Just like that !!! Good job. I appreciate the info. Looks just like the pump behind my 5.5 Briggs too.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1546226 said:


> Depending on the distance you need to spray, teejet triple tips or single stream nozzles. (or both)
> 
> http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.823.4461
> 
> http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.823.4458


Alright the only thing I want for Christmas Kubota is a compact lesson on the booms you make. I have a boomless nozzle right now, and its alright but I'm thinking a traditional boom with triplejets would work better. Could you post up some heights / nozzles spacings that work best? Ive got a pretty good grasp on the main boom part, its more so getting nozzles setup to shoot 3 or 4 feet past the boom its self. How do you accomplish this and with which nozzles? I understand the basic concepts its more design elements and nozzle types im looking for. Pics also appreciated!!

Cheers


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

I personally think im going to copy this boom below... Gives the capability to spray straight down (More Direct than what i have right now) Then still have the capability to spray the full 2 lanes width
But i've never used those tips so im a bit skeptical... doesn't look to me like there is enough space to rotate them!


----------



## EliteSnow&Ice

Unless your spraying $5 per gallon product, your over thinking things. Basically you want to be able too get product on the ground in a min. amount of time. My goal was to be able to drive 8 to 10 miles per hour across a lot, spend a little possible time, and get enough product down. With a basic system there are to many variables to accurately place product. ( pump rpm, pressure, and travel speed) so in short I think your over thinking it. Like my dddy use to say " go simple stupid"

100" dry boom

14 nozzle bodies space evenly across at approximately 20" high

1/2 of the are triple nozzle body loaded with tee jet triple stream sj3 black tip, and solid stream nozzle with .5 orifce. The last spot in open. The other half are a single body loaded with the triple stream tips. The I have tee jet xp boom jet boom less 
nozzle 1/2 not .80 orifce also about 20" of the ground.

Most time I run all 14 triple stream tips but if I need to get alot down or blow thru ice I flip the single steams on. The boomless are at the ends and cover 5 to 6 feet.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1546974 said:


> Alright the only thing I want for Christmas Kubota is a compact lesson on the booms you make. I have a boomless nozzle right now, and its alright but I'm thinking a traditional boom with triplejets would work better. Could you post up some heights / nozzles spacings that work best? Ive got a pretty good grasp on the main boom part, its more so getting nozzles setup to shoot 3 or 4 feet past the boom its self. How do you accomplish this and with which nozzles? I understand the basic concepts its more design elements and nozzle types im looking for. Pics also appreciated!!
> 
> Cheers


HO, Ho, HO,
















The black nozzle bodies, I would normally not have so close but I was going to use this boom to spray LCC for dust control
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.811.812.2199/9932
http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.823.4458 I use the black tips
The number of nozzles you need will be determined by the pump pressure in order to get the right amount of liquid on the ground. I like to put these at about 10-11" on center with the black triple tips. Height is about 20-24" high

The links below pertain to the adjustable nozzle bodies I used on the angled pipe to achieve the 3-4' extra distance. The nozzle I used was just a 1/4" male hose barb, the flow was about right, maybe just a bit on the heavy side.
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.811.1782.4177/8187
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.811.1782.4177/8191


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Has anyone ever had a problem with Output flow from a Liquid Storage tank ??


We were filling at another company's shop today (with their permission) and we turned the valve in all directions Including "wide Open" yet it still had a REALLY slow flow to it... Never seen that before... Especially when it was Filled Entirely.


----------



## Fourbycb

This is a pic of my spray setup attached to my Pull plow with 5 spray tips spaced 18" apart
Left side Pos 1 is a single streamjet tip. Pos 2 is a triple streamjet tip. Pos 3 is a single streamjet tip. Pos 4 is a triple streamjet tip and Pos 5 is a single streamjet tip


----------



## Kubota 8540

Fourbycb;1548175 said:


> This is a pic of my spray setup attached to my Pull plow with 5 spray tips spaced 18" apart
> Left side Pos 1 is a single streamjet tip. Pos 2 is a triple streamjet tip. Pos 3 is a single streamjet tip. Pos 4 is a triple streamjet tip and Pos 5 is a single streamjet tip


So do you spray as you plow or with the plow up?


----------



## Kubota 8540

BigBoyPlowin;1547531 said:


> Has anyone ever had a problem with Output flow from a Liquid Storage tank ??
> 
> We were filling at another company's shop today (with their permission) and we turned the valve in all directions Including "wide Open" yet it still had a REALLY slow flow to it... Never seen that before... Especially when it was Filled Entirely.


Most likely the tank didn't have an adequate vent.


----------



## Fourbycb

I pre spray with plow about 3 -5 "off the ground & post storm spray depending on conditions with plow up or down


----------



## EliteSnow&Ice

Had another day of spraying and garbed some pics of my unit


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Hey Elite how do you like those briggs engines on the pumps??

One of our motors died during the last storm... Finally bit the bullet and bought a Honda Opposed to the PowerPro! lol We'll see how it does!


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1545857 said:


> It would be a great idea. I have been saying that for the last couple winters. An all-in-one.


Hi guys....yea, been a while I know. The season and all, and keeping the wife happy.

Anyways, picked up my sprayer, (will have some pics). Nice unit, at this point pleased. However, with the hydraulic pump on the sprayer, and my tractor has open center hydraulic remotes, it has taken me some time to figure out the pressures. There is a set screw for pressure on the pump itself, plus a dial control on tractor as well. If pressure is least bit too much, remote will kick off on tractor. It's like a lady, have to handle it gently.....:laughing:

Got that figured out, I think. The spray nozzles are Tee-jet...triple pencil tips, SJ3 015. I think perhaps they are too small, because when spraying, not much liquid comes out ????

Right now, I don't have boom less nozzles attached yet, but I get a good 1/2" stream that shoots out 8-10' from each end. So it doesn't seem to be the pressure. I think tips with larger orifices would be the answer. What is your opinion ? I'm probably spraying 1 gallon/acre right now...or so it seems.


----------



## Fourbycb

I have the triple streamjet tips I believe they are the larger orifices 17 or 20 But I know there the largest one's and they work great I think the 15's are the middle one's


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1555037 said:


> Hi guys....yea, been a while I know. The season and all, and keeping the wife happy.
> 
> Anyways, picked up my sprayer, (will have some pics). Nice unit, at this point pleased. However, with the hydraulic pump on the sprayer, and my tractor has open center hydraulic remotes, it has taken me some time to figure out the pressures. There is a set screw for pressure on the pump itself, plus a dial control on tractor as well. If pressure is least bit too much, remote will kick off on tractor. It's like a lady, have to handle it gently.....:laughing:
> 
> Got that figured out, I think. The spray nozzles are Tee-jet...triple pencil tips, SJ3 015. I think perhaps they are too small, because when spraying, not much liquid comes out ????
> 
> Right now, I don't have boom less nozzles attached yet, but I get a good 1/2" stream that shoots out 8-10' from each end. So it doesn't seem to be the pressure. I think tips with larger orifices would be the answer. What is your opinion ? I'm probably spraying 1 gallon/acre right now...or so it seems.


The SJ-3-15VP (Greenish in color) are 1 step down from the largest and should work well with a hydraulic pump I would think. The SJ3-20-VP (black) is what I used on my 3 point sprayer, but I had the pto powered pump which changed speed when I slowed down or stopped.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1555188 said:


> The SJ-3-15VP (Greenish in color) are 1 step down from the largest and should work well with a hydraulic pump I would think. The SJ3-20-VP (black) is what I used on my 3 point sprayer, but I had the pto powered pump which changed speed when I slowed down or stopped.


Ok ??? Perhaps a trick I don't know about yet. Seems with the amount coming from tips, a person would have to move very slow to get any effects.

Watching the youtube clip of you and the sprayer in back of truck, the dry asphalt was almost completely wet with each pass you made. This is not the case with mine. I get strips which are wet, which is understandable, but shouldn't my objective be to put a coating on that will dampen all the areas ? (I'm talking about anti icing) ? Perhaps for this process, I should use a fan spray, and use pencil tips for de icing ???


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1555243 said:


> Ok ??? Perhaps a trick I don't know about yet. Seems with the amount coming from tips, a person would have to move very slow to get any effects.
> 
> Watching the youtube clip of you and the sprayer in back of truck, the dry asphalt was almost completely wet with each pass you made. This is not the case with mine. I get strips which are wet, which is understandable, but shouldn't my objective be to put a coating on that will dampen all the areas ? (I'm talking about anti icing) ? Perhaps for this process, I should use a fan spray, and use pencil tips for de icing ???


The fan tips normally dont put down that much liquid. But depending on how close my nozzle bodies are ( generally 10") I will throw in a couple strategic placed fan tips for good measure and coverage. How far apart are your nozzle bodies?

I prefer triple tips to all type nozzles I have ever tried. Yes they do leave stripes but the liquid will fill in the gaps in between the stripes with a little time.


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## Kubota 8540

How fast are you looking to spray?

I use triple tips for anti-icing and de-icing


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1555263 said:


> The fan tips normally dont put down that much liquid. But depending on how close my nozzle bodies are ( generally 10") I will throw in a couple strategic placed fan tips for good measure and coverage. How far apart are your nozzle bodies?
> 
> I prefer triple tips to all type nozzles I have ever tried. Yes they do leave stripes but the liquid will fill in the gaps in between the stripes with a little time.


Thanks. The nozzles are placed 20" apart. As far as speed of travel goes....maybe 4 or 5 mph ???? tractor has digital speedometer, so I can select gear and rpm of various choices. I just felt while out today that the rate I was traveling it would take much longer to spray than it would to use v box. Is this normal ? What speed did you travel with your tractor ?

Also, my boom was approx. 24" from ground


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1555292 said:


> Thanks. The nozzles are placed 20" apart. As far as speed of travel goes....maybe 4 or 5 mph ???? tractor has digital speedometer, so I can select gear and rpm of various choices. I just felt while out today that the rate I was traveling it would take much longer to spray than it would to use v box. Is this normal ? What speed did you travel with your tractor ?
> 
> Also, my boom was approx. 24" from ground


This was how my 3 point sprayed..... http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=129341 Post #5 It was a little far apart and took to long to melt between the lines. I narrowed the lines to 5-6" apart by adding a nozzle body in between the 20" spacing. Worked faster and better and could spray a little faster too.


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## Kubota 8540

Once your sprayer is fine tuned, you should be able to spray as fast or faster than spreading rock salt.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1555420 said:


> Once your sprayer is fine tuned, you should be able to spray as fast or faster than spreading rock salt.


I looked at link.. Seems to be about the way mine was spraying I guess. It was really cold today while I was out (10 deg fah), and snow was hard packed.

I sure hope the brine doesn't freeze tonight. It's already minus 5 fah.

I sprayed some on sidewalk today with hose and wand, and it seemed to melt off nicely. Tomorrow will be warmer, so try some more spray.

I am excited about the possibilities here, and will keep working to perfect my sprayer. I purchased couple different put together assemblies tonight for boom less ends. Parts from Lowes, Princess Auto etc. Trial and error.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1555420 said:


> Once your sprayer is fine tuned, you should be able to spray as fast or faster than spreading rock salt.


I pumped brine out of brine maker tank today to fill sprayer. After 2 batches, (800 gal.) there was only perhaps a round point shovel left over. This bagged salt I was fortunate enough to purchase works well. Even when applying it with sand, I find it starts working much quicker than other types of rock salt I have used in previous years. Not sure why, but it does.

Sifto salt....coarse #4 with YPS. A substance added to keep it from getting hard clumps. It seems to be a soft salt. You can rub it in your hands and it kinda turns into powder.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1555471 said:


> I pumped brine out of brine maker tank today to fill sprayer. After 2 batches, (800 gal.) there was only perhaps a round point shovel left over. This bagged salt I was fortunate enough to purchase works well. Even when applying it with sand, I find it starts working much quicker than other types of rock salt I have used in previous years. Not sure why, but it does.
> 
> Sifto salt....coarse #4 with YPS. A substance added to keep it from getting hard clumps. It seems to be a soft salt. You can rub it in your hands and it kinda turns into powder.


Yes I have seen many different types of salt too. Some REALLY coarse the size of marbles all the way to what you are describing. Some runs thru the spreader better than the others. Just depends on what I'm using it for. Some of it makes brine easier and quicker too.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1555292 said:


> Thanks. The nozzles are placed 20" apart. As far as speed of travel goes....maybe 4 or 5 mph ???? tractor has digital speedometer, so I can select gear and rpm of various choices. I just felt while out today that the rate I was traveling it would take much longer to spray than it would to use v box. Is this normal ? What speed did you travel with your tractor ?
> 
> Also, my boom was approx. 24" from ground


After pages of answering questions, steering you in the right direction, providing links, and providing all this help ( insert make him feel guilty here) we get 3 pics?

Where's the you Tube video link? I'm waiting.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1555815 said:


> After pages of answering questions, steering you in the right direction, providing links, and providing all this help ( insert make him feel guilty here) we get 3 pics?
> 
> Where's the you Tube video link? I'm waiting.


Ahhhhh...Hmmmm... feeling guilty.

Wellllllll, I will try to make a video...:laughing::laughing:

First I need to make sure I have it spraying correctly. After all, you are the teacher, expert builder, counselor, and judge. You should be coming here to help me with it 

I have bundles to learn, and with a little time, (and warmer weather) it's still zero here, I plan to have the best spraying system here in Kingston.


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## MF 5455

I do thank you Kubota, and everyone else who has contributed to opinions, questions, links, and pics to make the process easier.

Doing these projects really makes one feel independent, and not have to rely on always purchasing everything for the growth of business.

In 1991 I built my own outdoor wood boiler. It was a closed system, with a constant pressure of 12-14 lbs. I had steel rolled, did my own welding and fitting. I heated my home and shop with it, and it was fun. I used it for 5 consecutive years non stop. I really missed it when we moved and sold it.

Challenges are good for all of us.

Happy New Year to all of you !!!!


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1555844 said:


> Ahhhhh...Hmmmm... feeling guilty.
> 
> Wellllllll, I will try to make a video...:laughing::laughing:
> 
> First I need to make sure I have it spraying correctly. After all, you are the teacher, expert builder, counselor, and judge. You should be coming here to help me with it
> 
> I have bundles to learn, and with a little time, (and warmer weather) it's still zero here, I plan to have the best spraying system here in Kingston.


What's that white stuff on the ground? Is that SNOW? I haven't seen snow in so long it's hard to remember what it looks like?


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1555856 said:


> What's that white stuff on the ground? Is that SNOW? I haven't seen snow in so long it's hard to remember what it looks like?


Oh yes. The 27th Dec. we had 15 inches. The 29th we had 6 more. It was like a blizzard here on 27th. Winds were 45 mph and it was only 15 deg. We plowed non stop for 14 hrs.

I thought that Illinois got a healthy dumping also from that one ????


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1555862 said:


> Oh yes. The 27th Dec. we had 15 inches. The 29th we had 6 more. It was like a blizzard here on 27th. Winds were 45 mph and it was only 15 deg. We plowed non stop for 14 hrs.
> 
> I thought that Illinois got a healthy dumping also from that one ????


2 hours north got it all. We got 40 mph winds and horizontal flurries that only landed once they were in Indiana. :laughing:

Ground was wet before the temps got cold and has stayed very cold so frost is going deep, but can't plow frost so the best we have is to talk about snow, spreading and spraying.

I do get to work in my new garage, I get it set up a little nicer every day. The main problem with that is the money is flowing in the wrong direction.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1555870 said:


> 2 hours north got it all. We got 40 mph winds and horizontal flurries that only landed once they were in Indiana. :laughing:
> 
> Ground was wet before the temps got cold and has stayed very cold so frost is going deep, but can't plow frost so the best we have is to talk about snow, spreading and spraying.
> 
> I do get to work in my new garage, I get it set up a little nicer every day. The main problem with that is the money is flowing in the wrong direction.


Yes sir, when all the $$$ are going out, it hurts the accounts. Nice you have new garage though. That's where you can spend quality time...alone. 

Now you need to build and sell some brine makers while there is no snow to plow. Gotta pay for the heat and electric. Sure like to build one for the dump truck, but may have to wait until this fall. It needs to be planned well, and than put together.

Remember, don't leave any pumps running when you leave the garage.


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## Kubota 8540

I'm not to focused on the brinemakers but I have been giving my next sprayer build ALOT of thought and have it pretty well figured out. It will be a 300 gallon rectangular tank, and all the motor, pump, electrical valves and plumbing will be housed under a hood similar to a V box, but hinged the opposite way. Still looking and figuring how to set it up like a V box controller so every function, start, stop, choke, throttle will all be from the cab.


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## Kubota 8540

Going to finish out this week just working on the garage. I miss my all utilities (lights, gas, water, misc) included sold/leased back shop of 1,500 square feet for $225 a month. :crying:

Next week found a little project, I'm going to add a steel 3" high frame work to the top of my spreader so I can lift the spreader with the forks from the rear of the spreader. Only should cost about $100. No more chains and swinging in the breeze. Fork the spreader off, fork the sprayer on.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1555897 said:


> Going to finish out this week just working on the garage. I miss my all utilities (lights, gas, water, misc) included sold/leased back shop of 1,500 square feet for $225 a month. :crying:
> 
> Next week found a little project, I'm going to add a steel 3" high frame work to the top of my spreader so I can lift the spreader with the forks from the rear of the spreader. Only should cost about $100. No more chains and swinging in the breeze. Fork the spreader off, fork the sprayer on.


That is actually good idea. I have times where I need dump truck Have to put chain thru lift hook on inside. It dangles around, hits side of dump box, creates lots of frustration. 

I have to haul snow away from couple businesses tonight, and just dread removing v box from truck. It's not a big job, just time consuming and almost takes more time to unload, load salter, than to do other job.

Putting a frame on to use forks would be swell.


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## MF 5455

Speaking about leasing a building...that was a steal you had. 1500 ft for $225.00 ????????

2000 sq ft here will cost between $1800 and $2,000.00 per month.

$10 per ft plus utilities. Part of the lease is you pay for the property taxes....yes sir !!!

Hard to pay for all that, and keep the price of jobs down. Someone has to pay for this. It is a rip off in the first degree. I refused to do it.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1555912 said:


> Speaking about leasing a building...that was a steal you had. 1500 ft for $225.00 ????????
> 
> 2000 sq ft here will cost between $1800 and $2,000.00 per month.
> 
> $10 per ft plus utilities. Part of the lease is you pay for the property taxes....yes sir !!!
> 
> Hard to pay for all that, and keep the price of jobs down. Someone has to pay for this. It is a rip off in the first degree. I refused to do it.


Yes I had a very sweet deal, and I didn't have to pay taxes or insurance either. Did I mention it had piped 175 psi air and all 3 doors had remotes? Just $225 a month for 5 years. I paid all 5 years upfront in advance so the deal couldn't be changed.

But my lease was up, no renewal, and now I'm 75' from my back door of my house. I really like this better but ......smaller for this year and much shorter ceilings. I had 14' in the leased building and have 8-9' now. That's a real change.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1555921 said:


> Yes I had a very sweet deal, and I didn't have to pay taxes or insurance either. Did I mention it had piped 175 psi air and all 3 doors had remotes? Just $225 a month for 5 years. I paid all 5 years upfront in advance so the deal couldn't be changed.
> 
> But my lease was up, no renewal, and now I'm 75' from my back door of my house. I really like this better but ......smaller for this year and much shorter ceilings. I had 14' in the leased building and have 8-9' now. That's a real change.


Yes... the tall ceilings are nice. I need at least 10' openings to get excavator and dump truck inside. Takes more heat I guess with taller ceilings, but fans moving air will help.

Nothing like being close to home though....food, bathroom, phone, lazy boy, wife to do errands. :laughing:

Nice to have the heated building to work on projects though. If I build another one, it would be desirable to have heat in the floor. Feet warm, body warm.


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## MF 5455

Hi Kubota and friends

I am ready to make my calcium chloride liquid from dow flake extra. I have the formula Kubota posted...41 lbs with 8.2 gals of water. Is this good enough, or is there a method of testing with calciumometer...:laughing:. Going to mix 90/10...sodium brine/ calcium brine for my spraying.

Also, added a few more spray nozzles to my new sprayer, and tested it out with water on Sat...yes it was 50 deg. here, so water was used. I like the spray pattern it is providing, but next year I'm thinking of adding another solenoid setup so I can choose pencil tips for de icing, and fan for anti icing. 

Putting my plans together for a dedicated vehicle for next year which I will incorporate v-box , perhaps 375 gallon tank for pre wetting salt, or independently just boom spraying. I have extra transfer pump, enough fittings etc. Thinking about one of those cab over flat beds, ( Isuzu, Gmc, etc.) to fit this on and leave it. Perhaps have side racks on bed so I can cover equipment in summer with tarp or equivalent. I have access to some 4x8 sheets of diamond plate aluminum. Maybe make a cover for pumps, motors etc for harsh winter use as well.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1565427 said:


> Hi Kubota and friends
> 
> I am ready to make my calcium chloride liquid from dow flake extra. I have the formula Kubota posted...41 lbs with 8.2 gals of water. Is this good enough, or is there a method of testing with calciumometer...:laughing:. Going to mix 90/10...sodium brine/ calcium brine for my spraying.
> 
> Also, added a few more spray nozzles to my new sprayer, and tested it out with water on Sat...yes it was 50 deg. here, so water was used. I like the spray pattern it is providing, but next year I'm thinking of adding another solenoid setup so I can choose pencil tips for de icing, and fan for anti icing.
> 
> Putting my plans together for a dedicated vehicle for next year which I will incorporate v-box , perhaps 375 gallon tank for pre wetting salt, or independently just boom spraying. I have extra transfer pump, enough fittings etc. Thinking about one of those cab over flat beds, ( Isuzu, Gmc, etc.) to fit this on and leave it. Perhaps have side racks on bed so I can cover equipment in summer with tarp or equivalent. I have access to some 4x8 sheets of diamond plate aluminum. Maybe make a cover for pumps, motors etc for harsh winter use as well.


You need to use a hydrometer, to accurately check your cal mix. I think the specific gravity is 1.322.

http://www.glchloride.com/brochure/Brochure - Calcium chloride handbook.pdf page 17?

That truck setup sounds familiar, great idea. :laughing:


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## Kubota 8540

So.............A hypothetical situation and question.

FACT: Salt brine (23.3%) freezing point is -6F. 

FACT: Salt brine (26.3%) freezing point is 32F.

EQUIPMENT: V Box spreader, with electric pump for pre-wet at the spinner, and gas powered pump for full spraying capabilities with boomless nozzles or boom type nozzles all on 1 truck. 

QUESTION: Will I make ice?

SITUATION: I'm spraying a parking lot at my usual approx 100 gallons per acre, I then flip the switch and lightly spread salt on top as I'm spraying (lowest of low settings on the v box). By adding salt to the surface which is already covered with my 90/10 brine mix, will this add salt content to the already sprayed brine mix increasing it's % to maybe 24? 25? 26%? Thus increasing the freezing point of my brine mix to maybe 20F? 25? 32F?


What do you think?


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1565605 said:


> So.............A hypothetical situation and question.
> 
> FACT: Salt brine (23.3%) freezing point is -6F.
> 
> FACT: Salt brine (26.3%) freezing point is 32F.
> 
> EQUIPMENT: V Box spreader, with electric pump for pre-wet at the spinner, and gas powered pump for full spraying capabilities with boomless nozzles or boom type nozzles all on 1 truck.
> 
> QUESTION: Will I make ice?
> 
> SITUATION: I'm spraying a parking lot at my usual approx 100 gallons per acre, I then flip the switch and lightly spread salt on top as I'm spraying (lowest of low settings on the v box). By adding salt to the surface which is already covered with my 90/10 brine mix, will this add salt content to the already sprayed brine mix increasing it's % to maybe 24? 25? 26%? Thus increasing the freezing point of my brine mix to maybe 20F? 25? 32F?
> 
> What do you think?


I don't think if the salt is applied lightly, it will make a difference. I know the highway department here will spray the roads and than come by eith the salt truck later.

We had an extreme temp fluctuation last week. it was 39 in the evening, next morning it was 5 deg above zero. It had also rained/snow mix while it was 39 deg. I went over and sprayed parking lot because the moisture from night before turned to ice. Within 10 mins. the parking lot was only wet. I knew the temp was cold, and not fully persuaded I had mixed my brine correctly....., I applied a light coating of just salt to areas closest to main entrance, and handicap parking. I returned maybe in hour or so, and all areas looked the same. I thoroughly inspected the areas only sprayed, and those sprayed with salt added. I was actually impressed and happy with spray results.

Normally, I think I would have just sprayed had it not been so cold. But with a 32 deg. change in temp and knowing my brine was reaching it's lower limits, I decided to throw caution to the wind. I do think that if I would have had calcium chloride mixed in with the salt brine, I would not have added the granular salt.


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## MF 5455

I have a question also regarding the calcium chloride. Am I able to use the saturation hydrometer I purchased for my salt brine ? I test at approx. 88.7% to 91% for the sodium brine mix ? If so, what reading on the scale am I looking to be at 32% calc. chloride from your experience ?


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## EliteSnow&Ice

Kubota 8540;1565605 said:


> So.............A hypothetical situation and question.
> 
> FACT: Salt brine (23.3%) freezing point is -6F.
> 
> FACT: Salt brine (26.3%) freezing point is 32F.
> 
> EQUIPMENT: V Box spreader, with electric pump for pre-wet at the spinner, and gas powered pump for full spraying capabilities with boomless nozzles or boom type nozzles all on 1 truck.
> 
> QUESTION: Will I make ice?
> 
> SITUATION: I'm spraying a parking lot at my usual approx 100 gallons per acre, I then flip the switch and lightly spread salt on top as I'm spraying (lowest of low settings on the v box). By adding salt to the surface which is already covered with my 90/10 brine mix, will this add salt content to the already sprayed brine mix increasing it's % to maybe 24? 25? 26%? Thus increasing the freezing point of my brine mix to maybe 20F? 25? 32F?
> 
> What do you think?


I found a really good web page with the answer......

http://www.ec.gc.ca/nopp/roadsalt/reports/ParkingLot/EN/p4.cfm


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## MF 5455

EliteSnow&Ice;1565710 said:


> I found a really good web page with the answer......
> 
> http://www.ec.gc.ca/nopp/roadsalt/reports/ParkingLot/EN/p4.cfm


Excellent site you located. I read it's entirety, and found it to be helpful. We do need to be careful with the temps. and spraying. I got lucky the other day when temps were down to +5 deg. fah. That particular parking lot is tricky. The north wind seems to play havoc, and I find it freezes over way before most of my other lots.


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## nighthawk117

EliteSnow&Ice;1565710 said:


> I found a really good web page with the answer......
> 
> http://www.ec.gc.ca/nopp/roadsalt/reports/ParkingLot/EN/p4.cfm


Excellent link, I have noticed that one of the contractors in our area over applies salt to the point that is ridiculous. I drove thought the parking lot and noticed that there was a LOT of refreeze and crystallized areas and often wondered, after reading Kubotas threads, if the freeze point was increasing due to the over application, and after reading the link, YUP ! They would apply at night, then again in the morning ?? :laughing:


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1565637 said:


> I have a question also regarding the calcium chloride. Am I able to use the saturation hydrometer I purchased for my salt brine ? I test at approx. 88.7% to 91% for the sodium brine mix ? If so, what reading on the scale am I looking to be at 32% calc. chloride from your experience ?


No. The saturation hydrometer is designed to measure saturation of salt in water. You will need to spend some more $$ to buy a hydrometer that will read 1.322 like this.... http://www.globalscientificsupply.c...drometer_Specific_Gravity_1_200_to_1_450.html


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1566115 said:


> No. The saturation hydrometer is designed to measure saturation of salt in water. You will need to spend some more $$ to buy a hydrometer that will read 1.322 like this.... http://www.globalscientificsupply.c...drometer_Specific_Gravity_1_200_to_1_450.html


Haha... you're tough on me. I don't want to spend any more $$$$$. Well, I guess I have to if this job is to be done correctly. :realmad:

I was checking prices and locations of a few smaller flat beds last night. One in particular stood out.... with 12' flat deck. It has a hydraulic pump on it, a 600 gallon tank, a 150 gallon tank, 300' hose. It was used for pesticides and lawn treatment. Perhaps everything wouldn't work, but maybe tanks are plastic and a poly pump. I couldn't tell too much about it as everything was painted grass green and decals were all over it. Worth a phone call and some investigation.


----------



## William Brett

*Nozzle spacing*

Hi guys looking to build a new spray bar and would appreciate some advice.

The spray bar can be a max of 7' and I would like it to spray about 9'.

Ideally the bar needs to remain at, 1' off the ground.

I have a load of nozzle bodies and hypro 11005p feet nozzles.

What spacing do you guys recommend, how many and if I need to have some angled out what kind of angle and what design do you recommend.

Thanks in advance.

Will


----------



## szorno

Your spray heads are most likely marked with 2 numbers. One is a flow rate in gallons or litres per minute. The second is the width of the fan in degrees. You will have to do some math. How far away from the ground do you want to run the boom. That will let you calculate the width of the individual fan pattern based on the degrees width of the fan. Then you decide how much overlap you need. Then position your spray heads a proper distance apart to get the coverage with overlap. 
Then you have to look at application rate. This is where the adventure begins.
For example, we use a 7 ft boom with 6 evenly spaced spray heads sprays about 8.5 ft wide. Then you need to look at flow rating. Say a spray head is rated at 1.5 gal per minute. (our typical) So your total gallons per minute for the boom is 9. (6 spray heads, 1.5 gallon per minute each)
Then you look at speed. How many feet per minute are you traveling ?. At 10 miles per hour you are traveling (5280 ftx10mph)= feet traveled in 1 hr. Then divide by 60 minutes in an hour and you get 880 ft per minute. Now you take your feet per minute times the width of the spraypattern for the whole boom, (8.5 ft wide spray pattern) and you get the square feet you are covering every minute with that boom at 10 mph. 7480 sq ft. Yes, all this to calculate how many square feet you cover in 1 minute at 10 mph. 
Now you divide the sq ft covered by the gallons used in that same minute to get a sq ft per gallon coverage rate.In the example 7480/9= 831 sq ft per gallon at 10 mph
That is a little to thick coverage for most liquids. So you put in lower flow rate spray heads or speed the truck up above 10mph a little to get nearer 1000 sq ft per gallon which is usually a good starting place.
Hoowee what a pain.  But worth it to be sure you coverages are right for the boom you have. :waving:


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## Kubota 8540

William Brett;1567850 said:


> Hi guys looking to build a new spray bar and would appreciate some advice.
> 
> The spray bar can be a max of 7' and I would like it to spray about 9'.
> 
> Ideally the bar needs to remain at, 1' off the ground.
> 
> I have a load of nozzle bodies and hypro 11005p feet nozzles.
> 
> What spacing do you guys recommend, how many and if I need to have some angled out what kind of angle and what design do you recommend.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Will


Very hard to give accurate advise based on what you have stated. There are many different nozzle bodies and types. Are they dry boom or wet boom nozzle bodies? Model #? Are far as I could find Hypro list their tips in every combination of the alphabet, but not in 11005p. 11005 implies the nozzle sprays 110 degrees wide at a certain height. If it were a Teejet nozzle that height would be approx 24" @ 20" spacing. But different manufactures can be different. The 05 portion of that # implies the orifice size or flow amount. Again, if it were Teejet that nozzle would spray 6' wide at 24" high.

But no matter what, careful calculations need to be made if your spray boom will be placed at any other height than what the tip manufacturer has stated to be ideal. Most generally that height is about 24". That is not to say it cannot be placed at 12" high.

If you can give more specific part numbers I'm certain we can help you out.


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## Kubota 8540

William Brett,

How fast do you want to spray, how many gallons per acre (or gallons per 1,000 square feet) what liquid are you going to spray?


----------



## GSS LLC

Anyone have a photo of the plumbing on these setups a guy could see? a simple one, the ones i found of kubotas look like a dang city water supply pump station. i cant follow that. lol.


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1568984 said:


> Anyone have a photo of the plumbing on these setups a guy could see? a simple one, the ones i found of kubotas look like a dang city water supply pump station. i cant follow that. lol.


Out of all the sprayers I have built, I have tried so carefully to take pics as I built them. Trying to do a step by step picture timeline. It seems to always happen the same way. I start off taking pics then about half way thru I get a glimpse of the pay check in the light at the end of the tunnel and suddenly make a mad dash for the cash. (forgetting to keep taking pics) Just something about that pay check? Then the sprayer is gone and I'm saying, well I'll take more pics the next time. But I do have a lot of pics of the start of multiple sprayers. :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1570195 said:


> Out of all the sprayers I have built, I have tried so carefully to take pics as I built them. Trying to do a step by step picture timeline. It seems to always happen the same way. I start off taking pics then about half way thru I get a glimpse of the pay check in the light at the end of the tunnel and suddenly make a mad dash for the cash. (forgetting to keep taking pics) Just something about that pay check? Then the sprayer is gone and I'm saying, well I'll take more pics the next time. But I do have a lot of pics of the start of multiple sprayers. :laughing:


Haha... now we know what kind of guy you are. Forget about the rest of us, just grab the cash. payup Problem solved...just hand the camera to the wife, and ask her kindly to do it for you. Than take her somewhere nice for dinner. This way, you won't have us crawling all over you about your screw up !!!!

Question... We have discussed about a v-box and sprayer setup as one unit on a truck etc.
Isn't a 5 hp or equivalent pump bit of an overkill for spraying from a boom ? At 160 gallon / min., most of the brine is going to just be returning to tank through pressure relief valve ??? No ?
Seems to me, that something smaller in size, same principle with maybe 10 gallons / min would be sufficient.

Also, is it all that important to know how many gpa's we are spraying ? I haven't figured it out, but have been spraying my lots now with new 3 point sprayer, and I mainly just covered entire area until it was damp. Each pass gets me approx. 16' of coverage. If I leave areas dry, than I know what happens. I know enough not to let it flow like a river either. I sprayed lots on Wed night after stores closed. Last night, (Fri.) it snowed maybe 1". I went over this morn. (Sat.) early and parking lots were nice and wet, no snow . Competitors parking lots were dry, covered with the 1" snow. I know that I used 200 gallons, (90 / 10) mixture, on roughly 3 acres + --. subtract shopping cart houses, grass islands etc. I was traveling approx. 4 mph with tractor. Could go a little faster, but felt comfortable. I am still learning also, so after while, perhaps more speed.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1570240 said:


> Haha... now we know what kind of guy you are. Forget about the rest of us, just grab the cash. payup Problem solved...just hand the camera to the wife, and ask her kindly to do it for you. Doesn't like being anywhere near the shop. TOO dirty. Than take her somewhere nice for dinner. Rather have her cook at home. After gaining 75+ pounds since we have been together speaks for her cooking abilities. This way, you won't have us crawling all over you about your screw up !!!! Welcome, join the line, :laughing:
> 
> Question... We have discussed about a v-box and sprayer setup as one unit on a truck etc.
> Isn't a 5 hp or equivalent pump bit of an overkill for spraying from a boom ? Absolutely overkill.But a 40-50 gpm poly or silvercast pump will cost far more $$ than the 2" transfer pump w/5hp. Sometimes double or even triple as much money. At 160 gallon / min., most of the brine is going to just be returning to tank through pressure relief valve ??? No ? Yes, generally 35 gpm to the boom will accomplish anything you will ever need to do.
> Seems to me, that something smaller in size, same principle with maybe 10 gallons / min would be sufficient. 10-20 gpm on a tractor, 30-50 on a truck.
> 
> Also, is it all that important to know how many gpa's we are spraying ? Only when setting up the sprayer when your building it. I haven't figured it out, but have been spraying my lots now with new 3 point sprayer, and I mainly just covered entire area until it was damp. Each pass gets me approx. 16' of coverage. If I leave areas dry, than I know what happens. I know enough not to let it flow like a river either. I sprayed lots on Wed night after stores closed. Last night, (Fri.) it snowed maybe 1". I went over this morn. (Sat.) early and parking lots were nice and wet, no snow . Competitors parking lots were dry, covered with the 1" snow. I know that I used 200 gallons, (90 / 10) mixture, on roughly 3 acres + --. subtract shopping cart houses, grass islands etc. I was traveling approx. 4 mph with tractor. Thats how fast I sprayed with the Kubota when I used it to spray.Could go a little faster, but felt comfortable. I am still learning also, so after while, perhaps more speed.


4 mph doesnt seem very fast but its a comfortable speed in average lots. I spray 5-8 mph in a truck in the same lot?

I like setting sprayers and booms up to spray 100 gpa. Generally don;t need to spray more than that. Most times I would say 80 gpa is about right and all you need to spray. But I like to see MAJOR melting before I leave the lot.

I have sprayed in the same situation that you described, makes you look like you got there early doesn't it.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1570255 said:


> 4 mph doesnt seem very fast but its a comfortable speed in average lots. I spray 5-8 mph in a truck in the same lot?
> 
> I like setting sprayers and booms up to spray 100 gpa. Generally don;t need to spray more than that. Most times I would say 80 gpa is about right and all you need to spray. But I like to see MAJOR melting before I leave the lot.
> 
> I have sprayed in the same situation that you described, makes you look like you got there early doesn't it.


Haha... sounds like diet time for you. Home cooked food I find is sooo much better than eating out.

I understand about the gpa's. You like to have that ability to accomplish that amount of spraying, whether it's needed or not. Also about the smaller pumps...personally hadn't priced the smaller versions to notice the difference in price.

Another question for you...:laughing:

The salt spreader you had on rear of your Kubota I believe was equipped with hydraulic actuated flaps for control of spreading width. Did those flaps work independently, or were they hooked together into one remote ? Thinking about controlling my booms hydraulically in the future, and know if they are hooked together you have to put a control in line to keep equal pressure to both cylinders, otherwise which ever one feels like moving first will do so, and other one follow. Like to have them independent, but both at same time is also ok ??? If independent, I could drive close to an object on one side, while still maintain spraying on other. Just curious ???


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1570269 said:


> Haha... sounds like diet time for you. I'm 6-3 and 240. Actually works well. Home cooked food I find is sooo much better than eating out. Homemade tenderloins are the best, pan fried. YUM
> 
> I understand about the gpa's. You like to have that ability to accomplish that amount of spraying, whether it's needed or not. Also about the smaller pumps...personally hadn't priced the smaller versions to notice the difference in price.
> 
> Another question for you...:laughing: I have more answers and opinions than you have questions. Fire away. :laughing:
> 
> The salt spreader you had on rear of your Kubota I believe was equipped with hydraulic actuated flaps for control of spreading width. Did those flaps work independently, or were they hooked together into one remote ?I made them and hooked them up to 1 remote. So little fluid was required they actually worked evenly, without any extra controls. I would have hooked up indepent, but only bought with 2 pair remotes and was using 1 pair for the front plow wings or v function, Thinking about controlling my booms hydraulically in the future, and know if they are hooked together you have to put a control in line to keep equal pressure to both cylinders, otherwise which ever one feels like moving first will do so, and other one follow. Like to have them independent, but both at same time is also ok ??? If independent, I could drive close to an object on one side, while still maintain spraying on other. Just curious ???For a boom I would want independent, for the exact reason you mentioned.


The cylinders I used were only maybe 2x8 so very little fluid and they worked well. It allowed me to spread salt on a 1 lane drive or raise them and do 75'+/- in a parking lot.


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## Kubota 8540

Home » Parts » Pumps » Centrifugal Pumps » Ace Centrifugal Pumps » Ace Gasoline Engine Driven Pumps
Checkout
GE-100-A	
GE-100-A

Ace Pump-Gasoline Engine Driven
1-1/4" Suction x 1" Discharge
GE-100-A Pump Mounted on 3.5 HP Briggs & Stratton.
Max Presure: 50 PSI
Max Flow: 50 GPM
Weight: 44 lbs.

Additional Information/Parts Breakdown
Price: $1025.00

Just for a comparison.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1570300 said:


> Home » Parts » Pumps » Centrifugal Pumps » Ace Centrifugal Pumps » Ace Gasoline Engine Driven Pumps
> Checkout
> GE-100-A
> GE-100-A
> 
> Ace Pump-Gasoline Engine Driven
> 1-1/4" Suction x 1" Discharge
> GE-100-A Pump Mounted on 3.5 HP Briggs & Stratton.
> Max Presure: 50 PSI
> Max Flow: 50 GPM
> Weight: 44 lbs.
> 
> Additional Information/Parts Breakdown
> Price: $1025.00
> 
> Just for a comparison.


Wow...that is a huge difference in price of pumps.

On the hydraulic boom...i looked at small cylinders, maybe 1" dia. x 8 x 10 " stroke, plenty for what I need. I have used the one remote for my hydraulic sprayer pump, so I have one left. Perhaps I will just have to use them together, unless I want to purchase another 2 way valve and run hoses into cab to run independently. Don't think i can run each one separate from one remote ???


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1570335 said:


> Wow...that is a huge difference in price of pumps.
> 
> On the hydraulic boom...i looked at small cylinders, maybe 1" dia. x 8 x 10 " stroke, plenty for what I need. I have used the one remote for my hydraulic sprayer pump, so I have one left. Perhaps I will just have to use them together, unless I want to purchase another 2 way valve and run hoses into cab to run independently. Don't think i can run each one separate from one remote ???


That is just a cast iron pump, not poly , not stainless and not silvercast.

I know you can get a solenoid operated valve where you would attach each cylinder separately to it and supply 1 main flow to the valve and a simple flip of the switch determines which side the flow is directed.


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## Lynden-Jeff

I Will have to get some pics and post them of our all in one truck. Gas is ABSOLUTELY the way to go for boom pumps. Electric nothing but hastle. We had a real cold snowfall two nights ago and the liquid was killing it. Put down 600 gallons and 3 ton of salt total. Great having the liquid and granular in one truck.


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## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1570542 said:


> I Will have to get some pics and post them of our all in one truck. Gas is ABSOLUTELY the way to go for boom pumps. Electric nothing but hastle. We had a real cold snowfall two nights ago and the liquid was killing it. Put down 600 gallons and 3 ton of salt total. Great having the liquid and granular in one truck.


Please do get us some pics.

Just a little situation I have run into. On these sprayer engines, remove the fuel tank and spray the area under the tank with FLUID FILM which houses the choke and throttle linkage and governor spring. Just doesn't take long for these salt brine mixes to fuse the linkage to the springs which are the size of hair. I coat everything on these engines when brand new before they leave my shop.


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## MF 5455

Lynden-Jeff;1570542 said:


> I Will have to get some pics and post them of our all in one truck. Gas is ABSOLUTELY the way to go for boom pumps. Electric nothing but hastle. We had a real cold snowfall two nights ago and the liquid was killing it. Put down 600 gallons and 3 ton of salt total. Great having the liquid and granular in one truck.


I like the idea of gas better than electric, but in my humble opinion....when i build mine, I plan to use hydraulic driven pump. Nothing mechanical exposed, no wires to come undone or motors to burn out. I also want to change from gas on the v box to hydraulic as well.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1570554 said:


> Please do get us some pics.
> 
> Just a little situation I have run into. On these sprayer engines, remove the fuel tank and spray the area under the tank with FLUID FILM which houses the choke and throttle linkage and governor spring. Just doesn't take long for these salt brine mixes to fuse the linkage to the springs which are the size of hair. I coat everything on these engines when brand new before they leave my shop.


Sounds like a good idea. I'm a WD 40 nut. I use quite a lot of that. It sure prevents lots of problems from happening.

I use my concrete sealer spray tank and fill it with diesel fuel and 2 quarts of motor oil. Shake it up a bit and spray my equipment several times throughout the winter. NO rust occurs anywhere. When i finish with v box, open lids and spray conveyor parts. Box is stainless. Diesel fuel evaporates mostly, and leaves light film of oil behind. Spray my sprayer frame, boom, all around tractor. In spring, good pressure wash, rinse good and apply wax where suitable. 4 years now for v box and paint is still on conveyor chain in many areas. It sure doesn't take long for corrosion to start if one fails to do preventive maintenance.

Question.... At what pressure did you spray when you used the tractor ?

I set agitator about one turn open, and when engine on tractor is 1200 rpm's, I set at 60 psi. for spraying. My nozzles are approx. 18" from ground. I'm not sure I notice any visual difference in spray whether it's at 40, 60 or 80 psi ??????? Perhaps the higher pressure would be relevant to the pencil tips cutting through hard packed snow and ice ???? I don't personally see any reason to spray with high pressure when anti icing ???


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## MF 5455

I have a question ???

How do I add an album, or post a pic with my name like most of you guys do ? Want to be a bit creative as well. Thanks

Like this....


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1570758 said:


> Sounds like a good idea. I'm a WD 40 nut. I use quite a lot of that. It sure prevents lots of problems from happening. WD 40 evaporates to quickly. Fluid Film does not evaporate period.
> 
> I use my concrete sealer spray tank and fill it with diesel fuel and 2 quarts of motor oil. Shake it up a bit and spray my equipment several times throughout the winter. NO rust occurs anywhere. When i finish with v box, open lids and spray conveyor parts. Box is stainless. Diesel fuel evaporates mostly, and leaves light film of oil behind. Spray my sprayer frame, boom, all around tractor. In spring, good pressure wash, rinse good and apply wax where suitable. 4 years now for v box and paint is still on conveyor chain in many areas. It sure doesn't take long for corrosion to start if one fails to do preventive maintenance. I have tried every thing know to man kind when it comes to spraying my equipment over the years. I settled for exactly what you are doing, but then I tried FLUID FILM, I will never go back to what I used to use. I had the BEST and cleanest v box start up this winter that I have ever had. I don't/won't use anything but FLUID FILM. It's clean, it penetrates, and even smells good. Dam I sound like a testimonial. :laughing:
> 
> Question.... At what pressure did you spray when you used the tractor ? I sprayed at 50-60 psi. The tips are rated to 60 psi.
> 
> I set agitator about one turn open, and when engine on tractor is 1200 rpm's, I set at 60 psi. for spraying. My nozzles are approx. 18" from ground. I'm not sure I notice any visual difference in spray whether it's at 40, 60 or 80 psi ??????? I could tell the difference between 20 & 60 but not 50 & 60 psi. Perhaps the higher pressure would be relevant to the pencil tips cutting through hard packed snow and ice ???? I don't personally see any reason to spray with high pressure when anti icing ???


 The lower the pressure the less volume you are spraying. The higher pressure the higher the volume. But the tips are only rated to 60 psi. I sprayed at 50-60 psi anti ice or de-ice.

By raising or lowering the nozzle height it will change the distance between your lines.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1570800 said:


> I have a question ??? OK
> 
> How do I add an album, or post a pic with my name like most of you guys do ? Sorry you can't. Albums are reserved for Orange or Green Tractors only[/COLOR] Want to be a bit creative as well. Thanks
> 
> Like this....


But you can go to USER CP and down on the left side you will find some options. But I'm certain only orange or green tractors are permitted. :laughing:

In the grey banner above each thread you will see on the left USER CP. Click on that. Then on the left side you will see picture and albums, click on that. Then you should see ADD ALBUMS OR PICTURES. Photos generally have to be resized to 600 x ?? easiest way is to add this to your computer.....microsoft picture resizer powertoy download.....once you install on your computer its as easy as a right click on the pic choose the size to resize to and done. You will need to know or tell me which operating system you have on your computer. XP?... VISTA?.... 7?......8?


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1570956 said:


> But you can go to USER CP and down on the left side you will find some options. But I'm certain only orange or green tractors are permitted. :laughing:
> 
> In the grey banner above each thread you will see on the left USER CP. Click on that. Then on the left side you will see picture and albums, click on that. Then you should see ADD ALBUMS OR PICTURES. Photos generally have to be resized to 600 x ?? easiest way is to add this to your computer.....microsoft picture resizer powertoy download.....once you install on your computer its as easy as a right click on the pic choose the size to resize to and done. You will need to know or tell me which operating system you have on your computer. XP?... VISTA?.... 7?......8?


Haha.. you are soooo funny. :realmad:

I don't know what system is on computer ???? But I know how to run my excavator or dump truck....:laughing:

Wife will help determine what, where, when and how.

About this tractor thing....the red one was around a long time before the orange and some of the others. Yes, i know they're all good, but Kubota dealer talked out both sides of his mouth when I was looking, and never could give me a definite price on tractor. I didn't like the trans. in the Kubota or New Holland as well as MF. John Deere is about $20k more in price. No shifting or clutch use in mine. All joystick. Love it. It runs down road 26 mph for me between jobs. Good enough in the city. 105 hp. Michelin tires, suspension cab, air ride seat, nice loader with 84" bucket and 3700 lb forks. Sticker price here was $51k.

Kubota without loader was $58k sometimes...

Here's a pic hauling snow from behind plumbing supply store


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1571043 said:


> Haha.. you are soooo funny. :realmad:
> 
> I don't know what system is on computer ???? But I know how to run my excavator or dump truck....:laughing:
> 
> Wife will help determine what, where, when and how.
> 
> About this tractor thing....the red one was around a long time before the orange and some of the others. Yes, i know they're all good, but Kubota dealer talked out both sides of his mouth when I was looking, and never could give me a definite price on tractor. I didn't like the trans. in the Kubota or New Holland as well as MF. John Deere is about $20k more in price. No shifting or clutch use in mine. All joystick. Love it. It runs down road 26 mph for me between jobs. Good enough in the city. 105 hp. Michelin tires, suspension cab, air ride seat, nice loader with 84" bucket and 3700 lb forks. Sticker price here was $51k.
> 
> Kubota without loader was $58k sometimes...
> 
> Here's a pic hauling snow from behind plumbing supply store


Just giving you a hard time about the red one. 

I was standing in the John Deere store with a $90K check book, they barely would give me the time of day. So I went to the other red one, Case, I couldn't get waited on. Stopped by the Kubota dealer, they had me walk back to the door while they rolled out the red carpet and got me a cup of coffee. Sat right down and we went thru the stuff I wanted compared to what their tractors offered, walked around showing me their stock. Came to the conclusion they would have to have it ordered and trucked in to match all I had asked for, said it would take 30 days and it was a done deal. $20K less than John Deere.

Warranty was up when I sold the Kubota and it went to Ontario. Learned in those 3 years truly what I wanted in the next tractor, and a different transmission was first on the list, followed by shockless loader, longer wheel base, and a different bigger cab.

We have not even hooked up the plow yet this season. Just 2 partial saltings.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1571076 said:


> Just giving you a hard time about the red one.
> 
> I was standing in the John Deere store with a $90K check book, they barely would give me the time of day. So I went to the other red one, Case, I couldn't get waited on. Stopped by the Kubota dealer, they had me walk back to the door while they rolled out the red carpet and got me a cup of coffee. Sat right down and we went thru the stuff I wanted compared to what their tractors offered, walked around showing me their stock. Came to the conclusion they would have to have it ordered and trucked in to match all I had asked for, said it would take 30 days and it was a done deal. $20K less than John Deere.
> 
> Warranty was up when I sold the Kubota and it went to Ontario. Learned in those 3 years truly what I wanted in the next tractor, and a different transmission was first on the list, followed by shockless loader, longer wheel base, and a different bigger cab.
> 
> We have not even hooked up the plow yet this season. Just 2 partial saltings.


Yes sir. Unbelievable how some dealers treat you this way. I always say they must be selling a lot and making good money to act so independent. I prefer not to deal with that kind. The shock less loaders are nice extra. I do notice going on highway without blade or any rear attachments that steering is very sensitive. They have hydraulic steering, not sure if thats what makes difference, or because of the wheelbase length. Perhaps with only the big lugs making contact on the road as well. Once blade is on, whole different ball game. Blade weighs around 1800 lbs. I like to counterbalance with equal weight on rear. The sprayer when full is good. Last year I used a welded frame with a 2x2x4' concrete block in it. That was approx. 2,000k. I love the tractor for pushing and piling. Excellent visibility, good power, and move lots of snow. On the other hand, for spraying a lot of places, I would rather use truck mounted equipment. For now, 3 point sprayer is good, I love the results from the brine, and I can plow and spray same time. I might look into changing spray bodies to dual use. One for pencils, turn them for fan spray....or use my extra switch on control in cab with another solenoid and add another dry boom with the different spray nozzles.

Did you have any problems with the Kubota ?, or was the reason for selling because you were dissatisfied with results ? Probably the color....:laughing::laughing:


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1571135 said:


> Yes sir. Unbelievable how some dealers treat you this way. I always say they must be selling a lot and making good money to act so independent. I prefer not to deal with that kind. The shock less loaders are nice extra. I do notice going on highway without blade or any rear attachments that steering is very sensitive. They have hydraulic steering, not sure if thats what makes difference, or because of the wheelbase length. Perhaps with only the big lugs making contact on the road as well. Once blade is on, whole different ball game. Blade weighs around 1800 lbs. I like to counterbalance with equal weight on rear. The sprayer when full is good. Last year I used a welded frame with a 2x2x4' concrete block in it. That was approx. 2,000k. I love the tractor for pushing and piling. Excellent visibility, good power, and move lots of snow. On the other hand, for spraying a lot of places, I would rather use truck mounted equipment. For now, 3 point sprayer is good, I love the results from the brine, and I can plow and spray same time. I might look into changing spray bodies to dual use. One for pencils, turn them for fan spray....or use my extra switch on control in cab with another solenoid and add another dry boom with the different spray nozzles.
> 
> Did you have any problems with the Kubota ?, or was the reason for selling because you were dissatisfied with results ? Probably the color....:laughing::laughing:


No problems at all with the Kubota tractor or service from them. Warranty was gone, figured so was our snowy winters for a few years ( so far I have been right about that part) just a lot of shifting when going down the road. In the lots plowing, the visibility was KING. Thought it had the right number of hours and still in great condition so it was time to sell. I usually buy and own until it simply nickels and dimes me into submission to purchase a new again.

Orange was a beautiful color, paint job did suck. Very cheap paint job. Rattle can thin.

I operate off this theory,,,,,,,,,,,stay in the cab as much as possible. :laughing:
I would opt for the extra valve and separate tips. Fits my operating procedure. Never had a plow vehicle that could move as much snow as that tractor could effortlessly.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1571161 said:


> No problems at all with the Kubota tractor or service from them. Warranty was gone, figured so was our snowy winters for a few years ( so far I have been right about that part) just a lot of shifting when going down the road. In the lots plowing, the visibility was KING. Thought it had the right number of hours and still in great condition so it was time to sell. I usually buy and own until it simply nickels and dimes me into submission to purchase a new again.
> 
> Orange was a beautiful color, paint job did suck. Very cheap paint job. Rattle can thin.
> 
> I operate off this theory,,,,,,,,,,,stay in the cab as much as possible. :laughing:
> I would opt for the extra valve and separate tips. Fits my operating procedure. Never had a plow vehicle that could move as much snow as that tractor could effortlessly.


We had one big storm before Christmas, and 6" on its heels. Since then...rain, 50's, freeze up, 40's, flurries. Today, wind is blowing 60 mph with clouds and sun. Extremely cold next few days but don't see any snow coming from the weather gig.

Do you think a 16' flat deck on back of truck (8x16) would be too large for a complete set up ? ( My opinion maybe 12-14') I found nice flat nose truck...(19,500 gvwr) with beautiful 16' flat deck. V box is 8' and change, maybe 2 - 325 gal. tanks facing each other against bulkhead, and space for plumbing, motors, etc. Want to be able to walk around everything with ease for maintenance / repairs / filling tanks also. Still want to keep it short enough for tight turning in smaller areas / between parked cars, etc. The trans. on it has the outlet for pto adaption. Nice headache rack with opening for vision as well. I believe it has 132" cab to axle measurement. Plenty long, but when spreader is full, most of weight would be over the rear axle. I could shorten bed easily, as the overhang is approx. 42".


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1571177 said:


> We had one big storm before Christmas, and 6" on its heels. Since then...rain, 50's, freeze up, 40's, flurries. Today, wind is blowing 60 mph with clouds and sun. Extremely cold next few days but don't see any snow coming from the weather gig.
> 
> Do you think a 16' flat deck on back of truck (8x16) would be too large for a complete set up ? ( My opinion maybe 12-14') I found nice flat nose truck...(19,500 gvwr) with beautiful 16' flat deck. V box is 8' and change, maybe 2 - 325 gal. tanks facing each other against bulkhead, and space for plumbing, motors, etc. Want to be able to walk around everything with ease for maintenance / repairs / filling tanks also. Still want to keep it short enough for tight turning in smaller areas / between parked cars, etc. The trans. on it has the outlet for pto adaption. Nice headache rack with opening for vision as well. I believe it has 132" cab to axle measurement. Plenty long, but when spreader is full, most of weight would be over the rear axle. I could shorten bed easily, as the overhang is approx. 42".


If the truck is right and for a good price, the bed is easily shortened if necessary, then it sounds like it might be what you need. 650 gallons x 11 per gallon = 7,150 + 350 for a pair of tanks = 7,500 pounds. Spreader and salt weight? 6,000? Sounds like a good candidate.

After installing the hydraulic poly pump for one of the city sprayers I like them a lot. Small electric 2 gpm pump to be able to spray at the spinner with a flip of the switch sounds good too. Having it draw liquid from the big tanks, sweeeet.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1571197 said:


> If the truck is right and for a good price, the bed is easily shortened if necessary, then it sounds like it might be what you need. 650 gallons x 11 per gallon = 7,150 + 350 for a pair of tanks = 7,500 pounds. Spreader and salt weight? 6,000? Sounds like a good candidate.
> 
> After installing the hydraulic poly pump for one of the city sprayers I like them a lot. Small electric 2 gpm pump to be able to spray at the spinner with a flip of the switch sounds good too. Having it draw liquid from the big tanks, sweeeet.


Yes sir. I think I just may go look at truck again. Sales man is low pressure, so shouldn't be any hassle. I actually purchased a 12 volt pump while in us...it's rated at 3.8gpm, but that's reduced under pressure. It is an "on demand" style, which could be good or bad !!!
Good for spraying at the spinner as long as pressure is under 45 psi. If pressure gets above that, well off it goes.... If I so desire, I can use pressure regulator so pump runs constantly and recycles when not spraying. It would be nice to have it draw from large tank, less refilling.

Would your choice of spray at spinner be fan type so more aggregate is saturated with brine, or what are your thoughts ???


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1571216 said:


> Yes sir. I think I just may go look at truck again. Sales man is low pressure, so shouldn't be any hassle. I actually purchased a 12 volt pump while in us...it's rated at 3.8gpm, but that's reduced under pressure. It is an "on demand" style, which could be good or bad !!!
> Good for spraying at the spinner as long as pressure is under 45 psi. If pressure gets above that, well off it goes.... If I so desire, I can use pressure regulator so pump runs constantly and recycles when not spraying. It would be nice to have it draw from large tank, less refilling.
> 
> Would your choice of spray at spinner be fan type so more aggregate is saturated with brine, or what are your thoughts ???


Fan type about .75 -1 gpm. Probably 2 nozzles one when its dropping off conveyor and the other onto the spinner?


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1571240 said:


> Fan type about .75 -1 gpm. Probably 2 nozzles one when its dropping off conveyor and the other onto the spinner?


My plan for next year is to use as little sand as possible. Only in very cold conditions where the liquid brine or pure salt won't satisfy the need... such as: a heavy ice storm where it accumulates or when a heavy storm occurs when its extremely cold. That"s the extent of sanding for me. So, if only salt is being applied, it shouldn't take much brine to wet it as it leaves v box. Most likely, a light spray would be sufficient since the boom would be there to spray the areas needed. Once again, for me I would want 2 boom set ups....one for de icing, the other for anti icing. I like the 50' of hose on my present sprayer. It has a good quality spray nozzle that is fully adjustable. A nice sweep back and forth with the fan spray and sidewalk is now damp.

I think the highway depts. mostly use the calcium chloride to pre wet the aggregate as it leaves v box. It is quite expensive to purchase. Considerably more than the salt. I priced dow flake extra here locally, and it is $36.99 for 88 lb. bag. I picked it up in us for $13.99 bag for 50 lb. Quite a difference huh ?

I'm curious to how a fixed inverted v cover over a spray boom would be. Mb aluminum or stainless. About the size of one in a v box spreader. It might help keep the overspray / mist from rising, or shelter the spray from the wind. For sure something would be needed to cover the boom especially since the spreader will be slinging salt or sand all around it.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1571329 said:


> My plan for next year is to use as little sand as possible. Only in very cold conditions where the liquid brine or pure salt won't satisfy the need... such as: a heavy ice storm where it accumulates or when a heavy storm occurs when its extremely cold. That"s the extent of sanding for me. So, if only salt is being applied, it shouldn't take much brine to wet it as it leaves v box. Most likely, a light spray would be sufficient since the boom would be there to spray the areas needed. Once again, for me I would want 2 boom set ups....one for de icing, the other for anti icing. I like the 50' of hose on my present sprayer. It has a good quality spray nozzle that is fully adjustable. A nice sweep back and forth with the fan spray and sidewalk is now damp.
> 
> I think the highway depts. mostly use the calcium chloride to pre wet the aggregate as it leaves v box. It is quite expensive to purchase. Considerably more than the salt. I priced dow flake extra here locally, and it is $36.99 for 88 lb. bag. I picked it up in us for $13.99 bag for 50 lb. Quite a difference huh ?
> 
> I'm curious to how a fixed inverted v cover over a spray boom would be. Mb aluminum or stainless. About the size of one in a v box spreader. It might help keep the overspray / mist from rising, or shelter the spray from the wind. For sure something would be needed to cover the boom especially since the spreader will be slinging salt or sand all around it.


WOW you guys sure pay a lot for everything.

I had thought on my set up eventually I would put the spray bar under the rear of the bed in front of the spinner so no salt would be bouncing off of it.

Buy enough of the dowflake to mix say 100 gallons of LCC to spray at the spinner when it gets extremely cold. I really don't know how cold it can be and still use this 90/10 mix.


----------



## T-Trim

Finally. I finished read everything on this thread. Please no pop quiz. But I do have a question.

Is there a chart for LCC at different mix ratio %'s like the salt brine chart I saw so many times in this thread?

Thanks


----------



## Kubota 8540

T-Trim;1571590 said:


> Finally. I finished read everything on this thread. Please no pop quiz. But I do have a question.
> 
> Is there a chart for LCC at different mix ratio %'s like the salt brine chart I saw so many times in this thread?
> 
> Thanks


yes there is, seen it a while back. If I run across it again, I'll post the link.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Now this is service. :laughing:


----------



## T-Trim

Thanks. 

I saw the one you did for LCC at a 32% but that was it. 

Did I pass the quiz or was that a trick?


----------



## T-Trim

Question two.


Why would 32% be good when 29% is the max.

But why go that far I think 20% to 25% would be the best ratio . NO??


----------



## Kubota 8540

You passed I guess? I just happened to remember what internet search I was doing when I ran across that chart and thought it was a real nice chart.


----------



## Kubota 8540

T-Trim;1571636 said:


> Question two.
> 
> Why would 32% be good when 29% is the max.
> 
> But why go that far I think 20% to 25% would be the best ratio . NO??


I was wondering the same thing, but if I remember correctly, my LCC is food grade?


----------



## Kubota 8540

There is food grade and also Technical grade which is 28%

http://www.oxy.com/OurBusinesses/Chemicals/Products/Pages/CalciumChloride.aspx


----------



## T-Trim

Food Grade?


----------



## Kubota 8540

T-Trim;1571650 said:


> Food Grade?


Yes food grade. Liquid calcium chloride is used in many food products. It can also increase your risk of heart attacks if prolonged exposure to skin occurs. As well as many other products can. I purchased because of availability, price and in case I ever want to do some cooking or baking. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

http://www.livestrong.com/article/255625-what-foods-contain-calcium-chloride/


----------



## Kubota 8540

Anyone for some FIRM canned tomatoes?

Not quite like grandma's?


----------



## s&mll

Whats the reverse math on salt saturation?


If deicing at 20 degrees and ground turns into sheet up ice what would the salt saturation of been maybe 10-15 percent?


If making a perfect salt saturation of 23 percent(assuming thats the magic number) And spraying at 32 degrees you would see almost 100 percent effectiveness. What would the effectiveness of same solution be at 20 degrees?


----------



## s&mll

Just wondering because last storm the contractor I work for was deicing and had zero results besides ice. So after reading many of these pages Im just assuming our brine was not at optimal salt saturation. 20 degrees surely isnt 10 degrees.


----------



## Kubota 8540

s&mll;1571674 said:


> Whats the reverse math on salt saturation?
> 
> If deicing at 20 degrees and ground turns into sheet up ice what would the salt saturation of been maybe 10-15 percent?
> 
> If making a perfect salt saturation of 23 percent(assuming thats the magic number) And spraying at 32 degrees you would see almost 100 percent effectiveness. What would the effectiveness of same solution be at 20 degrees?





s&mll;1571676 said:


> Just wondering because last storm the contractor I work for was deicing and had zero results besides ice. So after reading many of these pages Im just assuming our brine was not at optimal salt saturation. 20 degrees surely isnt 10 degrees.


Well I would say your wrong right at the start when talking about 23% saturation. Saturation should be approx 89-91%. If you are asking about the % of salt in water then it would be 23.3%. If your talking about specific gravity it would be 1.176s.g.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Using the wrong type of test equipment or dissolving too much salt into the water will make ice at 32F.


----------



## s&mll

Okay not salt saturation but percent of salt in the water. haha picky guy you are. So if it iced up in 20 degrees either way the brine solution was not correct


----------



## T-Trim

s&mll;1571697 said:


> Okay not salt saturation but percent of salt in the water. haha picky guy you are. So if it iced up in 20 degrees either way the brine solution was not correct


He is not picky. Talk to laws of chemistry


----------



## Kubota 8540

s&mll;1571697 said:


> Okay not salt saturation but percent of salt in the water. haha picky guy you are. So if it iced up in 20 degrees either way the brine solution was not correct


No, not picky, just accurate and confident. Yes if it iced up at 20 degrees something MAY have not been right. Or when you say 20F you are referring to air temp and not ground temp which may have been lower. From my own first hand experience, at about 17F (surface temp) a straight salt brine solution of 23.3% will/can turn slushy. That is why I blend my 23.3% salt brine with (10% by volume) of 32% liquid calcium chloride. I have used and sprayed this on surfaces with temps of 5-8F with no problems.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I don't mean to make this salt brine thing seem complicated, because it is not. Once you have the whole picture it is real easy and can save or make you a lot of money. 

It's like anti-freeze you put in your radiator. Just because it's anti-freeze you don't fill your radiator completely full with it, you blend it, so many parts anti-freeze to so many parts water. You do that to get it's greatest capabilities, both to protect from freezing but also it's ability to absorb heat.

Salt brine is the same / similar. So many parts salt with so many parts water, in this case you receive it's lowest freeze point as well as it's melting capabilities. In the case with salt brine, surface temp plays a big part.

Knowing which test equipment to use and what your testing for is critical. I wouldn't test my anti-freeze with a meat thermometer ? Whether your testing for amount of saturation, weight % of salt in water, or the specific gravity it's important to know what test equipment to use.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1571747 said:


> I don't mean to make this salt brine thing seem complicated, because it is not. Once you have the whole picture it is real easy and can save or make you a lot of money.
> 
> It's like anti-freeze you put in your radiator. Just because it's anti-freeze you don't fill your radiator completely full with it, you blend it, so many parts anti-freeze to so many parts water. You do that to get it's greatest capabilities, both to protect from freezing but also it's ability to absorb heat.
> 
> Salt brine is the same / similar. So many parts salt with so many parts water, in this case you receive it's lowest freeze point as well as it's melting capabilities. In the case with salt brine, surface temp plays a big part.
> 
> Knowing which test equipment to use and what your testing for is critical. I wouldn't test my anti-freeze with a meat thermometer ? Whether your testing for amount of saturation, weight % of salt in water, or the specific gravity it's important to know what test equipment to use.


Good advice and instructions...very fair and fitly spoken.

Today will be the test for me...5 deg fah and calling for 2-4" later. Do I spray or not ???? This will be a first for me at these temps before a snow storm. I do have the 90 / 10 mixture in the sprayer. I do have sand / salt mixture to ride shotgun for me if needed. :laughing:


----------



## leigh

I've got a theoretical ques.If you mixed your brine above 23%, the freezing point rises to say 32 or maybe lower depending on the mix.If you spray that down to deice/desnow wouldn't the dilution of the brine take care of things?It instantly dilutes. When you put down rock salt it goes through the same process as it reacts with the melting snow? Your just creating brine on the ground not in a tank.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1572058 said:


> Good advice and instructions...very fair and fitly spoken.
> 
> Today will be the test for me...5 deg fah and calling for 2-4" later. Do I spray or not ???? This will be a first for me at these temps before a snow storm. I do have the 90 / 10 mixture in the sprayer. I do have sand / salt mixture to ride shotgun for me if needed. :laughing:


You are absolutely correct: have sand / salt mixture to ride shotgun for me if needed :laughing: That's how I approach things, with back up. 

I have limited test results as to the ability of the 90/10. The weather won't seem to snow the exact amount I need for a good test. But have back up, note weather conditions, note temp and whether it is trending up / down. Write little notes in a note book as far as your results, so you know what worked or failed for the next time.

I don't mean to seem like I jump on people. But there are so many factors that can effect this salt brine. Perhaps improper mixing, perhaps bad testing, maybe the wrong test equipment, wrong amount of brine being applied (not enough), Maybe trying to exceed the brine's capabilities ( spraying on top of wet snow of 1.5") maybe surface temp too low, etc. But the simple statement I have heard TOO many times about salt brine is....we did nothing but make ice. It gives liquids in general a bad wrap.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1572082 said:


> You are absolutely correct: have sand / salt mixture to ride shotgun for me if needed :laughing: That's how I approach things, with back up.
> 
> I have limited test results as to the ability of the 90/10. The weather won't seem to snow the exact amount I need for a good test. But have back up, note weather conditions, note temp and whether it is trending up / down. Write little notes in a note book as far as your results, so you know what worked or failed for the next time.
> 
> I don't mean to seem like I jump on people. But there are so many factors that can effect this salt brine. Perhaps improper mixing, perhaps bad testing, maybe the wrong test equipment, wrong amount of brine being applied (not enough), Maybe trying to exceed the brine's capabilities ( spraying on top of wet snow of 1.5") maybe surface temp too low, etc. But the simple statement I have heard TOO many times about salt brine is....we did nothing but make ice. It gives liquids in general a bad wrap.


Yes sir....same with many other things in life. Bad results doesn't always mean the item or whatever is involved is no good or faulty. I am careful right now because I am still in learning process. I was careful testing my brine each batch I made, but I will be spraying where people and traffic are involved, and this could be a break or make. When i spray, I plan to stay close by and monitor the situation. The truck with v box will be ready just in case. Kubota is so correct...arm ourselves with knowledge, monitor our progress, note the mistakes we make, and keep a log of day / time / temperatures / weather patterns. I keep a daily log of my snow removal always....especially the areas where slip and fall is prevalent. Have kept track of weather and daily activities in my snow removal business for 30 years. Another step for me, although I know some of you guys have been spraying for years.


----------



## Kubota 8540

leigh;1572075 said:


> I've got a theoretical ques.If you mixed your brine above 23%, the freezing point rises to say 32 or maybe lower depending on the mix.If you spray that down to deice/desnow wouldn't the dilution of the brine take care of things?It instantly dilutes. When you put down rock salt it goes through the same process as it reacts with the melting snow? Your just creating brine on the ground not in a tank.


You would certainly think so, BUT if you mixed your brine above the ideal 23.3% and the temps were right it would freeze right in the sprayer. Say you mix your brine to 26% thats an extra 3 pounds of salt per gallon, but in doing so you changed the freezing point of the brine to 32F. It takes a lower temp just to have snow on the ground surface. The surface temp of your sprayer will be less than 32F? You have frozen brine. It's the weird science part of it.


----------



## leigh

Thanks, just thinking out loud!


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota, Do you belive nozzle type plays a different in effectiveness? I have put down about 2000 gallons now with a boomless nozzle (Boominator to be exact) which is basically a broad course dropplet fan pattern. I used the same triplejets you used last season with some calcium. Do you feel the triplejets are better for post storm melting? I find sometimes the fan seems to be less effective melting 1-1.5 inch snows compared to the triple jets which get the liquid to the ground and melt from the bottom up. Thoughts?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1572736 said:


> Kubota, Do you belive nozzle type plays a different in effectiveness? I have put down about 2000 gallons now with a boomless nozzle (Boominator to be exact) which is basically a broad course dropplet fan pattern. I used the same triplejets you used last season with some calcium. Do you feel the triplejets are better for post storm melting? I find sometimes the fan seems to be less effective melting 1-1.5 inch snows compared to the triple jets which get the liquid to the ground and melt from the bottom up. Thoughts?


Yes

Any type stream nozzle seems to work better in getting the liquid to the ground than a broadcast type nozzle. By getting the liquid to the ground yes it melts from the bottom up. It under cuts the packed snow from wheel traffic well also.
In anti-icing I use a majority of SJ-3 triple tips and a couple coarse droplet fan type mixed in. In anti-icing boomless works well also.

But de-icing (post storm) I only use stream type whether single or triple.


----------



## DodgeBlizzard

Speaking of boomless nozzle. I want to turn a 275 gallon tote into the occasional pick up with the skid loader and spray the parking lot setup. I don't think any kind of boom would work for very long without getting beaten by the guys and the skid loader. So I'm thinking coming straight out of the tank and into a boomless spray nozzle. I've never done anything boomless. Any suggestions?


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

DodgeBlizzard;1572872 said:


> Speaking of boomless nozzle. I want to turn a 275 gallon tote into the occasional pick up with the skid loader and spray the parking lot setup. I don't think any kind of boom would work for very long without getting beaten by the guys and the skid loader. So I'm thinking coming straight out of the tank and into a boomless spray nozzle. I've never done anything boomless. Any suggestions?


Well we currently Run TeeJet Boomless Nozzles.. I say currently because we are going to rebuild our booms and try a Combination of Boomless nozzles and streams on one boom next year.

We currently have it configured to spray one lane (Directly behind the truck) Or 2 Lanes (Which sprays directly behind the truck plus maybe 5-6' on both sides... So its truly Curb to curb.) Works for us.

**NOT MINE..But there is no doubt that with the right nozzle(s) you can easily spray 5-80+ feet. I dont do enough huge commercial where a 60-120' shooting boom could be useful


----------



## Kubota 8540

Correction for post # 857

An extra 3/10 of a pound of salt, not an extra 3 pounds of salt. My tongue must have gotten tangled around my eye teeth so I couldn't see what I was typing.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1572939 said:


> Correction for post # 857
> 
> An extra 3/10 of a pound of salt, not an extra 3 pounds of salt. My tongue must have gotten tangled around my eye teeth so I couldn't see what I was typing.


Well I didn't chance the spraying yesterday / last night. It was zero fah. here, and we had maybe half inch of snow. Was undecided on how to handle with cold weather, so threw caution to the wind and held off. I did check my brine in sprayer and in storage totes, and nothing was frozen.... Good sign for me I guess.. Tonight it's suppose to be down to minus 10 fah.  Not sure if I should empty sprayer so pump wont freeze, or risk leaving brine in it ?????


----------



## Kubota 8540

Caution says drain the sprayer and pump.


----------



## Kubota 8540

If, IF, I could find some snow, I could sprinkle it on my concrete driveway and spray it with some 90/10 seeing how the temps are so low, I could at least experiment. That statement is so sad for the 3rd week of January.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1573154 said:


> If, IF, I could find some snow, I could sprinkle it on my concrete driveway and spray it with some 90/10 seeing how the temps are so low, I could at least experiment. That statement is so sad for the 3rd week of January.


I guess you will have to move farther east to get the snow. Next month you may have a lot to move...who knows.

You just unnerved me to try this myself. I believe I will go tomorrow and try spraying an area behind a building which has snow on it. It will be only 5 above tomorrow. No traffic there, so it won't matter if I mess up a little bit. Worst case scenario....ice rink. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1573494 said:


> I guess you will have to move farther east to get the snow. Next month you may have a lot to move...who knows.
> 
> You just unnerved me to try this myself. I believe I will go tomorrow and try spraying an area behind a building which has snow on it. It will be only 5 above tomorrow. No traffic there, so it won't matter if I mess up a little bit. Worst case scenario....ice rink. :laughing:


Take the skates, stick and puck, waste not want not? :laughing:


----------



## newhere

Kubota, or any one else that has thoughts.....

do you think i could use a lesco type space saver sprayer with a hypro diaphragm style pump on it for spraying brine and mostly calcium chloride ? 

The reason for this is its set up with hose and real so i can use it for walkways and also plumb it into a prewet for the v-box.


----------



## Kubota 8540

newhere;1573542 said:


> Kubota, or any one else that has thoughts.....
> 
> do you think i could use a lesco type space saver sprayer with a hypro diaphragm style pump on it for spraying brine and mostly calcium chloride ?
> 
> The reason for this is its set up with hose and real so i can use it for walkways and also plumb it into a prewet for the v-box.


Don't really know that much about them, other than they are generally high pressure and low volume. What model do you have?


----------



## newhere

a d-30 


When recirculating they dont run a high psi, just shooting off the hip it seems it would spray walks fine. I was more worried about potential abrasives harming the pump itself. I guess i will try it and find out the hard way.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

newhere;1573542 said:


> Kubota, or any one else that has thoughts.....
> 
> do you think i could use a lesco type space saver sprayer with a hypro diaphragm style pump on it for spraying brine and mostly calcium chloride ?
> 
> The reason for this is its set up with hose and real so i can use it for walkways and also plumb it into a prewet for the v-box.


An in-line filter will catch a lot of the "Bad things" like debris. I picked a few up from TSC or Grainger.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1573496 said:


> Take the skates, stick and puck, waste not want not? :laughing:


Kubota .... How about another picture of your tractor with sprayer...like 4 or 5 of them please. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1573635 said:


> Kubota .... How about another picture of your tractor with sprayer...like 4 or 5 of them please. :laughing:


I will but it may take me a while. I just looked on my everyday computer and the pics only go back to August 2010. My business computer may have those pics, if not then my shop computer will, but is not currently hooked up. Don't ask how many I have. TOO many. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

Its kind of funny when the Cable /Internet guy comes out to repair our modem and has to call his supervisor to explain I'm just a guy with ALOT of computers after the modem died from over use.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1573661 said:


> I will but it may take me a while. I just looked on my everyday computer and the pics only go back to August 2010. My business computer may have those pics, if not then my shop computer will, but is not currently hooked up. Don't ask how many I have. TOO many. :laughing:


You had one of the tractor with sprayer on this here site, but i went back several pages and couldn't find it. I wanted to see how you had your boom less nozzles hooked up. Thank you


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1573704 said:


> You had one of the tractor with sprayer on this here site, but i went back several pages and couldn't find it. I wanted to see how you had your boom less nozzles hooked up. Thank you


No boomless on there, I was spraying approx 27' all with stream type.

with 2 broadcast wide angle quick attach nozzles and boom, would spray 12' wide
















Sitting at idle speed spraying with triple tips. At right rpm could get 27' wide


----------



## Kubota 8540

This is not baiting or feeding the wild life those are my apples I forgot to bring in from the patio. The window is 3' behind my office chair.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I had a manual control that I reach out the back window to control the boom with,


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1573721 said:


> No boomless on there, I was spraying approx 27' all with stream type.
> 
> with 2 broadcast wide angle quick attach nozzles and boom, would spray 12' wide
> View attachment 122249
> 
> 
> View attachment 122250
> 
> 
> Sitting at idle speed spraying with triple tips. At right rpm could get 27' wide
> View attachment 122251


Thank you sir. Not the one I was looking for, but this will do....:laughing:

The other one was an up close looking from right rear side.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1573729 said:


> This is not baiting or feeding the wild life those are my apples I forgot to bring in from the patio. The window is 3' behind my office chair.
> 
> View attachment 122252


Yea, yea...I bet there's an automatic closer on that gate behind them too !!! :laughing:

Real nice. I like to have the wildlife coming in. It's peaceful.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1573738 said:


> I had a manual control that I reach out the back window to control the boom with,
> 
> View attachment 122253


You must have changed the boom system a couple times. Looks different in some of these pics.....


----------



## Kubota 8540

Tractor w/boom


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1573755 said:


> Tractor w/boom
> 
> View attachment 122254


That's the picture I was looking for. Good view of how you had the nozzles placed on boom. Thank you


----------



## Kubota 8540

Turret nozzle bodies are a waste of money. Can't rotate them from the cab, not worth having. LOL


----------



## Kubota 8540

That was the first sprayer I built. Now is still in use 1 hour from here at its new home.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1573744 said:


> Yea, yea...I bet there's an automatic closer on that gate behind them too !!! :laughing:
> 
> Real nice. I like to have the wildlife coming in. It's peaceful.


No gates, wide open to the rest of the world, so I thought I'd walk out and retrieve them there apples......









I think she likes me?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1573747 said:


> You must have changed the boom system a couple times. Looks different in some of these pics.....


I'm thinking of starting to put things together around here with Velcro. Everything gets tried, tested, and then changed.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1573782 said:


> Turret nozzle bodies are a waste of money. Can't rotate them from the cab, not worth having. LOL


That's why you advised me to add extra solenoid, and another set of nozzles...:laughing:

I was wondering about those multiple faced valve bodies. I guess I won't be using those. I have another unused switch on my controller...think I will add another solenoid and plumbing to accommodate the extra nozzles I want. After this week weather will warm up again. Can do more experimenting.

A picture of my buck shot last year.....weighed 160 lbs. dressed.


----------



## Kubota 8540

We had a full grown deer in the neighbor hood that wore a red collar with a 3" gold bell. My 5 year old little boy and the deer sat on my patio and ate coa coa puffs out of the same bowl. It followed us around like a puppy. We had to be careful when we came in the house door because it would walk right in behind us. LOL. But yes deer steaks are awesome tasting. A good deer roast and beef roast cooked together is real nice with a little bacon too.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I wouldn't have to hunt them, I'd just talk them into stepping into the pan.

But if I did hunt them, I suspect I would only need a sharpened paper clip?


----------



## Kubota 8540

True story.......The day that deer with the red collar and gold bell got in trouble with the law. That deer had the law called on him for being a public nuisance and traffic hazard. :laughing:
But it only got funnier from there. The county deputy sheriff showed up to remove the traffic hazard (deer with red collar and gold bell) walked over to the deer grabbed it's collar walked back to the squad car switched hands to hold the deer by the collar out the drivers window. He then drove back down the side road away from the highway half out the window holding the deer by the collar. What a sight that was coming down the road. Funnier than hell. I guess thats the protect and serve part of the job? All I could think at the time was.... gee that seems to be the hard way to do that. He could have just opened the back door and that red collared gold belled deer would have just gotten in the back. :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1573851 said:


> True story.......The day that deer with the red collar and gold bell got in trouble with the law. That deer had the law called on him for being a public nuisance and traffic hazard. :laughing:
> But it only got funnier from there. The county deputy sheriff showed up to remove the traffic hazard (deer with red collar and gold bell) walked over to the deer grabbed it's collar walked back to the squad car switched hands to hold the deer by the collar out the drivers window. He then drove back down the side road away from the highway half out the window holding the deer by the collar. What a sight that was coming down the road. Funnier than hell. I guess thats the protect and serve part of the job? All I could think at the time was.... gee that seems to be the hard way to do that. He could have just opened the back door and that red collared gold belled deer would have just gotten in the back. :laughing:


That would have been a laugh in itself, just seeing a cop car with driver leading a deer away.
Lucky the creature got away without a ticket....:laughing:

Okay Kubota, school time for you....

It was minus 14 fah. this morning. I pulled 10 layers of clothing on, grabbed my thickest gloves, and hurriedly raced outside to check my brine.

The brine wasn't frozen in any of the totes. Some of them are on ground, others are sitting up where air can pass underneath them. I left brine in sprayer, just protected plumbing with heat tape and blankets. Not even slushy ???

Why ? If I sprayed it on asphalt, would it be more likely to freeze than sitting in the tote ? Is it because of the volume and strength of the mixture together ??? This is very interesting, and I like to have knowledge on this so I know what reactions I can expect next year etc. Maybe lack of humidity in the air ? Almost no frost on vehicles at all.


----------



## birchwood

Kubota are you finally getting some snow this morning?


----------



## Kubota 8540

birchwood;1574005 said:


> Kubota are you finally getting some snow this morning?


Very light can almost count the flakes on the concrete. Don't think I will make any money out of it.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1573989 said:


> That would have been a laugh in itself, just seeing a cop car with driver leading a deer away.
> Lucky the creature got away without a ticket....:laughing: Eventually after the law had to be called several times, mainly by the neighbors concerned for the deers safety, the law decided to uncollar him and relocate him to a re-education camp (environmental park) to be with other deer so he could learn he was not one of us. And that people were BAD> :laughing:
> 
> Okay Kubota, school time for you....
> 
> It was minus 14 fah. this morning. I pulled 10 layers of clothing on, grabbed my thickest gloves, and hurriedly raced outside to check my brine.
> 
> The brine wasn't frozen in any of the totes. Some of them are on ground, others are sitting up where air can pass underneath them. I left brine in sprayer, just protected plumbing with heat tape and blankets. Not even slushy ???
> 
> Why ? If I sprayed it on asphalt, would it be more likely to freeze than sitting in the tote ? Thats a real good question, I don't know? Is it because of the volume and strength of the mixture together ??? Have wondered that myself? This is very interesting, and I like to have knowledge on this so I know what reactions I can expect next year etc. Maybe lack of humidity in the air ? Maybe lack of humidity, maybe the lack of dilution of the brine solution with the snow? Almost no frost on vehicles at all.No frost here either


When you say brine, do you mean straight salt brine 23% no additive like LCC? Not 90/10? I tested a 2 gallon pail of straight salt brine by setting it on my concrete outside all night and when I checked it the next morning the air temp was -6F, it wasn't frozen, not slushy or anything. But the salt brine chart says it's freezing point is -6F. My best guess is that I checked AIR temp not surface temp and the contact of the bucket to the surface was enough heat/warmth that it kept the salt brine from freezing. I haven't had enough cold temps and light snow to experiment at these low temps. I started to mix all my salt brine with 10% by volume shortly after and have never went back to straight salt brine, nor have I sprayed any surfaces that were +5F with my 90/10. I have sprayed surfaces that ranged fro 6F to 12F and 90/10 worked perfect.

We are at a point where my first hand experience is real thin. I encourage others to experiment (carefully with back up) and share their results.


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## Kubota 8540

The surface temps last evening here ranged from 1.6F to 9.7F but we had zero snow. This morning we are 10 degrees air temp warmer and light snow, maybe 1/8"? Just got paid yesterday from the city job and I don't have a sprayer yet. And wondering if I should tie up the money in another sprayer seeing how we are not getting much snow and I don't think we will for the rest of the winter.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1574061 said:


> When you say brine, do you mean straight salt brine 23% no additive like LCC? Not 90/10? I tested a 2 gallon pail of straight salt brine by setting it on my concrete outside all night and when I checked it the next morning the air temp was -6F, it wasn't frozen, not slushy or anything. But the salt brine chart says it's freezing point is -6F. My best guess is that I checked AIR temp not surface temp and the contact of the bucket to the surface was enough heat/warmth that it kept the salt brine from freezing. I haven't had enough cold temps and light snow to experiment at these low temps. I started to mix all my salt brine with 10% by volume shortly after and have never went back to straight salt brine, nor have I sprayed any surfaces that were +5F with my 90/10. I have sprayed surfaces that ranged fro 6F to 12F and 90/10 worked perfect.
> 
> We are at a point where my first hand experience is real thin. I encourage others to experiment (carefully with back up) and share their results.


What I have stored in totes is straight sodium brine. I have calcium brine in another tote.

Didn't expect sprayer to be frozen with heat tape on the plumbing, but it also is straight salt brine. Will add calcium to it today, 90/10 mix and try it. Suppose to be 3 above.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1574066 said:


> The surface temps last evening here ranged from 1.6F to 9.7F but we had zero snow. This morning we are 10 degrees air temp warmer and light snow, maybe 1/8"? Just got paid yesterday from the city job and I don't have a sprayer yet. And wondering if I should tie up the money in another sprayer seeing how we are not getting much snow and I don't think we will for the rest of the winter.


I don't think there is much winter left as far as snow. We had our "big storm" for the year before Christmas. Maybe little squalls, but once Feb. gets here, not much happens.

I have thought about this whole setup item on one truck for next year. Would love to do it, but can I justify the cost of everything ??? Winter is so unpredictable, and it could sit around and collect dust. Maybe I will just use tractor for a while, and not jump in the pond yet. Truck and equipment built and installed working....close to $20k.


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## Kubota 8540

I view things like this.......is this equipment going to make ME money or am I working the equipment to pay for the equipment. I can really tell how other contractors are doing by the number of calls and emails I get. Most have tightened their belts and are trying to get back on their feet again or have battened down the hatches and are weathering the storm until things get better.

If the equipment is surely going to make ME money or save ME money I will invest in it. But this close to spring (about 1 month out) I'm thinking of holding out until warmer weather. Might take the time and add pre-wet to my spreader seeing how I already have 95% of the parts.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1574090 said:


> I view things like this.......is this equipment going to make ME money or am I working the equipment to pay for the equipment. I can really tell how other contractors are doing by the number of calls and emails I get. Most have tightened their belts and are trying to get back on their feet again or have battened down the hatches and are weathering the storm until things get better.
> 
> If the equipment is surely going to make ME money or save ME money I will invest in it. But this close to spring (about 1 month out) I'm thinking of holding out until warmer weather. Might take the time and add pre-wet to my spreader seeing how I already have 95% of the parts.


I agree with you. I think everything economically for your country and ours is less favorable than we're led to believe. Too many jobs lost, manufacturing plants closing or scaling back to skeleton work force. Housing here is starting to take a hit. Prices have been ballooned to the point of bursting. Household debt is at an all time high. We must be careful that's for sure. Maybe this coming fall....


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1574116 said:


> I agree with you. I think everything economically for your country and ours is less favorable than we're led to believe. Too many jobs lost, manufacturing plants closing or scaling back to skeleton work force. Housing here is starting to take a hit. Prices have been ballooned to the point of bursting. Household debt is at an all time high. We must be careful that's for sure. Maybe this coming fall....


Exactly what you described is right where the U.S. was just before the housing crash followed by everything else that was tied to it.

I'm looking just to experiment and toy with some new ideas but not make any major purchases or do any big spending. I used to think being 1 month ahead of the wolf was OK, now I'm thinking being 4-5 months ahead of the wolf is not quite enough.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1574125 said:


> Exactly what you described is right where the U.S. was just before the housing crash followed by everything else that was tied to it.
> 
> I'm looking just to experiment and toy with some new ideas but not make any major purchases or do any big spending. I used to think being 1 month ahead of the wolf was OK, now I'm thinking being 4-5 months ahead of the wolf is not quite enough.


Yes sir..I have a couple large purchases for business need to be taken care of. I get uneasy, stressed when more goes out than comes in. In my line of work, April and May are the worst months. Usually too wet to work, and the phone doesn't ring like it should. The mailman still stops out front, and my credit has to be kept on top. Nothing major this year in purchases. I have what I need. One never knows when the economy will go south. I wouldn't mind moving there, but keep my $$$. :laughing:


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1574125 said:


> Exactly what you described is right where the U.S. was just before the housing crash followed by everything else that was tied to it.
> 
> I'm looking just to experiment and toy with some new ideas but not make any major purchases or do any big spending. I used to think being 1 month ahead of the wolf was OK, now I'm thinking being 4-5 months ahead of the wolf is not quite enough.


How are things in your area ??? Is the economy rebounding and gaining speed ? Many ppl unemployed ? Any new manufacturing jobs moving in ? New / same president may bring you all prosperity this next 4 years.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1574139 said:


> How are things in your area ??? Is the economy rebounding and gaining speed ? Many ppl unemployed ? Any new manufacturing jobs moving in ? New / same president may bring you all prosperity this next 4 years.


He did such a wonderful job of adding 5+ TRILLION to the national debt while taking care of his cronies that he was re-elected to add 5+ TRILLION to the national debt. :laughing:

Truly an economic guru. :laughing: He plans on spending his /our way to prosperity all with borrowed money. If we survive this it will be a miracle.

No new jobs. Locally, everybody is just existing. It's Illinois. We had to build a new prison as a retirement home to house our former governor's. :laughing:


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## Kubota 8540

But on the brighter side I can now add to our seasonal totals of 1/8" ice, 1/2" of snow and a couple frozen rain filled potholes. Today I can add another 1/8" of dry fluffy snow........Yahoooooo !


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## Kubota 8540

Should go out and take some surface temps and spray some 90/10 from my hand sprayer on that 1/8" snow. Nahhhhh,....... I think I'll go paint my living room and watch it dry.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1574152 said:


> He did such a wonderful job of adding 5+ TRILLION to the national debt while taking care of his cronies that he was re-elected to add 5+ TRILLION to the national debt. :laughing:
> 
> Truly an economic guru. :laughing: He plans on spending his /our way to prosperity all with borrowed money. If we survive this it will be a miracle.
> 
> No new jobs. Locally, everybody is just existing. It's Illinois. We had to build a new prison as a retirement home to house our former governor's. :laughing:


Haha.. It baffles me how that critter got back in. I guess the other party didn't have anyone with better ideas ???? Put them in a bag, shake them up, dump them out...SAME !!!

Afraid it's not going to get any better either. I worry about my kids future. Son is doing ok., daughter still in college. By the time she finishes, what she took for major won't be needed.

I get more concerned when I hear the politicians trying to do away with the American constitution...esp. the one dealing with disarming the people. Should NEVER happen.


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## Kubota 8540

Surface temps are as low as I have seen. -3.6F and warmest -1.3F Used a handheld and shot half a dozen different non snow covered areas and that was the range. So took a soup can and scattered some 90/10 and is looking great, instant melting, no slushing, no instant freeze. So I guess I will go paint the living room and keep an eye on the driveway while I watch paint dry.


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## Kubota 8540

I'll have to check with a contractor I was on the phone with last night from Chicago, he was thinking of spraying some of his lots last night with 90/10 in anti-icing approach so he could go to work today. But as of right now I don't know if he went out and sprayed. Won't be able to call him until this evening.


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## Kubota 8540

Neighbors are already pretty certain I'm not quite right (matter of opinion). But I may have just confirmed it by taking pictures of an 1/8" of snow on my driveway. :laughing:









Wet, but no freeze. -3.6F surface temp, Air temp 19F, 20 ounces of 90/10

Top center of pic is 20 ounces of rock salt in a small circle


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1574219 said:


> I'll have to check with a contractor I was on the phone with last night from Chicago, he was thinking of spraying some of his lots last night with 90/10 in anti-icing approach so he could go to work today. But as of right now I don't know if he went out and sprayed. Won't be able to call him until this evening.


Going now to mix in my calcium brine....90/10 and do some spraying. It's now zero outside here. Let you know the results when I return.


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## GSS LLC

im building one right now. im joining this club!


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## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1574255 said:


> im building one right now. im joining this club!


Good. Did the pics help any?


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## Kubota 8540

Area in the picture is 10' x 20' = 200 square feet. If that had of been sprayed I think that 20 oz. would have completely covered that 200 sq ft. and at that rate. 100 oz / 1000 sq ft which is not quite 1 gallon/1,000 sq ft.or less than 40 gallons per acre.?


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1574301 said:


> Area in the picture is 10' x 20' = 200 square feet. If that had of been sprayed I think that 20 oz. would have completely covered that 200 sq ft. and at that rate. 100 oz / 1000 sq ft which is not quite 1 gallon/1,000 sq ft.or less than 40 gallons per acre.?


I mixed my 90/10 brines and did some spraying. Air temp was minus 2, and not sure how Kubota checks ground temp....(i laid a thermometer on the asphalt. No sun shining). It read plus 3. The brine didn't freeze yet anyway...it melted the eighth inch we had nicely. I may go check in the morning to see what happened over night ???? Boy, it was cold out there...north wind wasn't friendly.


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## MF 5455

GSS LLC;1574255 said:


> im building one right now. im joining this club!


Hi there...how are things in Nebraska ???? Do you have snow ??? How much is on ground ??? I think you will like the results of the spraying with brine. Let us know how things turn out. Good luck to you.


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## GSS LLC

kubota, the pics helped a lot! 

questions first..

to get started without spending money on an electric valve, can i just open the shutoff between the pump and boom, start the engine and hop in the truck and roll on? (i know ill have a heavy spot, but if i do it at an entrance it will all get drug in by traffic)

will a 3/8x50 ft air hose reel work for a spray wand? (to do sidewalks and such) someone asked on this site but i cannot remember the answer.

we got 1" yesterday, and i spent all day plowing and then sanding. i could've spayed liquid down and been done at home! thats what pissed me off enough to go spend 800 dollars on supplies and start building. lol.

Im going to finish this year spreading straight LCC, and this summer i will set up a brine making system as money allows. i think i can sell a lot of farmers on paying me to spray the gravel roads in front of their houses and the local fairs to let me do dust controll too. *think* is the keyword here.


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## terrapro

GSS LLC;1574530 said:


> kubota, the pics helped a lot!
> 
> questions first..
> 
> to get started without spending money on an electric valve, can i just open the shutoff between the pump and boom, start the engine and hop in the truck and roll on? (i know ill have a heavy spot, but if i do it at an entrance it will all get drug in by traffic)
> 
> will a 3/8x50 ft air hose reel work for a spray wand? (to do sidewalks and such) someone asked on this site but i cannot remember the answer.
> 
> we got 1" yesterday, and i spent all day plowing and then sanding. i could've spayed liquid down and been done at home! thats what pissed me off enough to go spend 800 dollars on supplies and start building. lol.
> 
> Im going to finish this year spreading straight LCC, and this summer i will set up a brine making system as money allows. i think i can sell a lot of farmers on paying me to spray the gravel roads in front of their houses and the local fairs to let me do dust controll too. *think* is the keyword here.


It sounds good in theory but I hit my switch alot...really it's not like you want to jump out 20 times on a 1 acre lot. Maybe if your spraying at $.10-.20 per gallon but I never got to making my brine system so spraying straight LCC at $.60 per gallon is the only option I have at the moment so using to much is not economical.

Under $100 for a toppet valve, solenoid, wiring, and a switch is a good investment.


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## GSS LLC

Where can I buy one? Without going online


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## BigBoyPlowin

GSS LLC;1574530 said:


> kubota, the pics helped a lot!
> 
> questions first..
> 
> to get started without spending money on an electric valve, can i just open the shutoff between the pump and boom, start the engine and hop in the truck and roll on? (i know ill have a heavy spot, but if i do it at an entrance it will all get drug in by traffic)
> 
> will a 3/8x50 ft air hose reel work for a spray wand? (to do sidewalks and such) someone asked on this site but i cannot remember the answer.
> 
> Yes... but beware its going to be super powerful... I would add a ball valve before the reel connection so you can regulate the pressure a bit. Before we installed the valve it shot out like a pressure washer!
> 
> we got 1" yesterday, and i spent all day plowing and then sanding. i could've spayed liquid down and been done at home! thats what pissed me off enough to go spend 800 dollars on supplies and start building. lol.
> 
> Im going to finish this year spreading straight LCC, and this summer i will set up a brine making system as money allows. i think i can sell a lot of farmers on paying me to spray the gravel roads in front of their houses and the local fairs to let me do dust controll too. *think* is the keyword here.


Also you're going to wish you would have just spent the extra $$ on a cheap solenoid when its 15* out and you're jumping back and forth.. In addition to that, i don't know about you but we go back out sometimes and only spray the intersections of HOA's Or Select spots/ as needed... Thats where having a switch in the cab really comes in handy!

We are currently trying out these CHEAP solenoids from Ebay... I think we got them for $15 bucks.. SO FAR they have lasted 3 months...We have Extra solenoids with quick connects already installed in my truck just in case one blows but for 15 bucks you can go wrong... Works just as good as our $300 banjo manifold!


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## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1574668 said:


> Where can I buy one? Without going online


I think Schaben Industries is out your way? They would probably have all you need. I have dealt with them before and are real nice to order thru.


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## Kubota 8540

http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.689.1019.2207.3905/3493 .......Absolutely worth the money and your shoes stay dry.


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## GSS LLC

I wonder if anyone in Omaha,ne sells such a thing


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## GSS LLC

Hey, here's an idea, how about I go to dultmeirs since they are 15 minutes from me. Derrrr


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1574446 said:


> I mixed my 90/10 brines and did some spraying. Air temp was minus 2, and not sure how Kubota checks ground temp....(i laid a thermometer on the asphalt. No sun shining). It read plus 3. The brine didn't freeze yet anyway...it melted the eighth inch we had nicely. I may go check in the morning to see what happened over night ???? Boy, it was cold out there...north wind wasn't friendly.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Inf...286?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5651b80a96 Mine looks just like this but has a different label sticker name (Thermo tech) http://www.amazon.com/ThermoTech-TT...8992104&sr=8-34&keywords=Infrared+Thermometer










GSS LLC;1574757 said:


> Hey, here's an idea, how about I go to dultmeirs since they are 15 minutes from me. Derrrr


Hey I know how about Dultmeier. :laughing:


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## GSS LLC

The worst part,I spent the whole time searching the internet for a Omaha sprayer supply place. Gave up, went to dultmeirs and tried overnight shipping and Walla, Omaha phone number. Duh


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## Kubota 8540

I buy a lot of parts from Dultmeier. I drive 120 miles one way and pick the parts up. It cost me less in fuel than for shipping normally.


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## Kubota 8540

Surface temp was - 1F to -3.6F when sprayed air temp rising








After 4 hours the surface temp was +6F air temp about 25F and was starting to dry off


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## leigh

We need a live video feed.We need snow,it will solve all our problems!


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## Kubota 8540

leigh;1574871 said:


> We need a live video feed.We need snow,it will solve all our problems!


Yes, watching an 1/8" snow melt........I would say we all need snow too.


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## Lynden-Jeff

Redesigned my brine maker to have 4 down draft pipes. Worked great! Was -17 C out or about 0 F and we decided to make brine :laughing:. Brewed 4000 gal in 1.5 hours. Not to bad considering it was cold enough to freeze your nuts off!


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## Kubota 8540

" 0 F and we decided to make brine " Great day to make brine........did you think of that all by yourself ? :laughing:

Last time I had to make brine it was something like 32F and snowing, I thought that was bad.


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## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1574940 said:


> Redesigned my brine maker to have 4 down draft pipes. Worked great! Was -17 C out or about 0 F and we decided to make brine :laughing:. Brewed 4000 gal in 1.5 hours. Not to bad considering it was cold enough to freeze your nuts off!


So, it seems you are making a lot of brine. I assume it's working favorably and either making or saving you money?


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## Lynden-Jeff

Well we ran out and its cold all week so we had no choice, we are used to cold so it wasn't a big deal lol. Yes 3 contractors share these batches with me and another contractor using the majority of it. I assume I save about 1.5 tons with each outing I go on which is not a HUGE money savings but it does work much much faster and makes my properties look alot better. I also like the abilitiy to pre-wet. The proactive approach goes along way with customers and I do save with salt there. 

I am still getting familiar with the product and feel I need a new boom with triplejets to take full advantage of the liquid. Still in a learning processs. Id like to tweak this brine maker to achive maximum results, maybe we need a brine maker thread going.

Cheers


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## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1575002 said:


> Well we ran out and its cold all week so we had no choice, we are used to cold so it wasn't a big deal lol. Yes 3 contractors share these batches with me and another contractor using the majority of it. I assume I save about 1.5 tons with each outing I go on which is not a HUGE money savings but it does work much much faster and makes my properties look alot better. I also like the abilitiy to pre-wet. The proactive approach goes along way with customers and I do save with salt there.
> 
> I am still getting familiar with the product and feel I need a new boom with triplejets to take full advantage of the liquid. Still in a learning processs. Id like to tweak this brine maker to achive maximum results, maybe we need a brine maker thread going.
> 
> Cheers


Ok. 3 Contractors sharing the brine. What were they all using before the brine? Salt, treated salt?

Brinemaker thread would be good.


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## MF 5455

Lynden-Jeff;1574940 said:


> Redesigned my brine maker to have 4 down draft pipes. Worked great! Was -17 C out or about 0 F and we decided to make brine :laughing:. Brewed 4000 gal in 1.5 hours. Not to bad considering it was cold enough to freeze your nuts off!


That's 10-----400 gallon batches in one and half hours.....:laughing:

You must have several of these going at same time....either that or it was sooooo cold you forgot the count. I hopr you got the right mixture.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1575706 said:


> That's 10-----400 gallon batches in one and half hours.....:laughing:
> 
> You must have several of these going at same time....either that or it was sooooo cold you forgot the count. I hopr you got the right mixture.


I think I remember that he is filling the totes with a 2" water line and he is also using the mini to fill with salt.

MF 5455: How did your spraying when 0F work out?


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1575743 said:


> I think I remember that he is filling the totes with a 2" water line and he is also using the mini to fill with salt.
> 
> MF 5455: How did your spraying when 0F work out?


I had posted yesterday on results actually...

I pumped my 20 or so gallons of calcium chloride into sprayer with 175 gallons of salt brine.
I sprayed an area which sees no traffic just for precaution.
The results were good ??? The snow melted, the brine didn't freeze on the asphalt. The sprayer seemed a little slow in building pressure...not sure why.
I believe it will be ok, but would have liked testing it where the cars were traveling just to see if it would freeze if tires were running on it. That will be later when I am more confident in myself. That north wind was BRUTAL


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1575848 said:


> I had posted yesterday on results actually...
> 
> I pumped my 20 or so gallons of calcium chloride into sprayer with 175 gallons of salt brine.
> I sprayed an area which sees no traffic just for precaution.
> The results were good ??? The snow melted, the brine didn't freeze on the asphalt. The sprayer seemed a little slow in building pressure...not sure why.
> I believe it will be ok, but would have liked testing it where the cars were traveling just to see if it would freeze if tires were running on it. That will be later when I am more confident in myself. That north wind was BRUTAL


Yes I read that post, I was curious as to the overnight and how it was today. It was cold a few days ago here with a wind that just cut straight to the bone. More near normal 20ish now.

What I spread out, 20 oz. was dry and white this morning. I think there is still enough residue to handle more melting.


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1575895 said:


> Yes I read that post, I was curious as to the overnight and how it was today. It was cold a few days ago here with a wind that just cut straight to the bone. More near normal 20ish now.
> 
> What I spread out, 20 oz. was dry and white this morning. I think there is still enough residue to handle more melting.


This morning it was still a little damp looking, but not at all slippery to walk on. I didn't see any signs of frost on it either. That was about 10 a m. The air temp was still minus 8 deg.

The weather is starting to change now. Tomorrow and Sat. still quite cold. Next week back up in the 30's. Perhaps some snow in the forecast for next week. All of our precip. crosses Lakes Erie and Ontario and ends up in eastern New York, and even down into the Appalachians.


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## GSS LLC

Got my setup 90 percent done. Need a bulkhead fitting for the return line to the tank, then wire up the shut off valve. Then I can do a test run


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## BigBoyPlowin

GSS LLC;1576100 said:


> Got my setup 90 percent done. Need a bulkhead fitting for the return line to the tank, then wire up the shut off valve. Then I can do a test run


No pics man?!?! :realmad::realmad: hahaha


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1575743 said:


> I think I remember that he is filling the totes with a 2" water line and he is also using the mini to fill with salt.
> 
> MF 5455: How did your spraying when 0F work out?


It is still cold here...minus 7 last night, but up to 7 above now. Warming trend coming.

I noticed today that there is wet salt crystals / particles ??? on my sprayer tips. Some of the tips appear to be plugged up, while others seem to be ok. Is this because the salt brine mixture is not quite right, or because of cold weather it is falling apart ?? Doesn't appear to be frozen, but solids, if I'm explaining correctly. Sprayer is slow to build pressure, and some nozzles refuse to spray ??? What do I need to do to prevent this from happening again ?


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1576393 said:


> It is still cold here...minus 7 last night, but up to 7 above now. Warming trend coming.
> 
> I noticed today that there is wet salt crystals / particles ??? on my sprayer tips. Some of the tips appear to be plugged up, while others seem to be ok. Is this because the salt brine mixture is not quite right, or because of cold weather it is falling apart ?? Doesn't appear to be frozen, but solids, if I'm explaining correctly. Sprayer is slow to build pressure, and some nozzles refuse to spray ??? What do I need to do to prevent this from happening again ?


YAHOOOOOO ! 6.5 hours of plowing and salting. Got an inch of fluffy stuff last night. Wouldn't have had to plow if I had of built my sprayer?

White crystals are normal. It shows the salt brine is misting on the tips when spraying. That is perfectly normal. Do you have a filter on your sprayer? Are the tips Teejet triple stream? If they are which I think I remember they are. Just take the tips out and clean them. You can also , when you have the tips out, PICK the small square plastic piece out of the back side of the nozzle. That will give a little more volume, and the nozzles still work just fine.

{What do I need to do to prevent this from happening again ?} Put in bigger nozzles and let the small debris flow right on thru. Black SJ-3 tips


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## Kubota 8540

BigBoyPlowin;1576186 said:


> No pics man?!?! :realmad::realmad: hahaha


I send him some pics, he starts a thread, teases, and then won't post any pics?


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## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1576469 said:


> YAHOOOOOO ! 6.5 hours of plowing and salting. Got an inch of fluffy stuff last night. Wouldn't have had to plow if I had of built my sprayer?
> 
> White crystals are normal. It shows the salt brine is misting on the tips when spraying. That is perfectly normal. Do you have a filter on your sprayer? Are the tips Teejet triple stream? If they are which I think I remember they are. Just take the tips out and clean them. You can also , when you have the tips out, PICK the small square plastic piece out of the back side of the nozzle. That will give a little more volume, and the nozzles still work just fine.
> 
> {What do I need to do to prevent this from happening again ?} Put in bigger nozzles and let the small debris flow right on thru. Black SJ-3 tips


I do have a filter on sprayer. I removed it, and found it full of the same. Very wet saltish substance, completely filled filter, and almost stood up when emptied. I also pulled some out of filter housing with my fingers. It almost appeared as if something else was mixed in with it....kinda slimey. 

The tips not spraying are triple jets...green ones, I think 015.

I used sprayer pump to finish filling my tank with the calcium chloride. Of course it sucks in through pump heading up or reverse of what's normal, and filled my sprayer tank. Not sure what would have happened in a couple minutes between time I shut off suction valve, disconnected the hose and battened down hatches. I sprayed before adding calcium to make sure all was working. I sprayed after also, but only for a short time before I started losing pressure, and nozzles started plugging up.

Anyway, I checked areas sprayed again today, and all is dry and white. No ice.

Happy you got to do some plowing...better than painting the living room. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

Not so sure plowing is better than painting the living room......I didn't have to paint the living room at 3:30 AM. :laughing:

But I easily earned the $100 it cost me to paint the living room in the first hour of plowing.


----------



## GSS LLC

I SPRAYED MY FIRST PARKING LOT WITH LCC!!!!!! Success!!!


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1576778 said:


> I SPRAYED MY FIRST PARKING LOT WITH LCC!!!!!! Success!!!


Congrats !! How much snow? How cold? How many gallons per acre or 1,000 Sq Ft? Where's the Pics?


----------



## GSS LLC

No snow. About 36 degrees, how do I figure out gallons per acre? Pics coming!


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1576817 said:


> No snow. About 36 degrees, how do I figure out gallons per acre? Pics coming!


No snow, and 36 degrees? And you sprayed LCC? Have extra money to just spend? Sounds like you should have sprayed rain repellant. 

Kidding aside, how did the sprayer work?

Measure the width x length = square feet and look at your tank as to how many gallons are missing.


----------



## Kubota 8540

This is a Hypro poly pedestal pump. Normally these pumps are used with a horizontal shaft motor or engine. Does any one see why this could not be mounted to a vertical shaft engine, as long as the mounting and adjustment brackets were right? I do have an email into Hypro pumps but I'm sure it will take a few days for a reply.









+ PLUS


----------



## GSS LLC

i sprayed my own lot at my shop. i had water in the system from testing earlier today. i wanted to get it purged from the system


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1576870 said:


> i sprayed my own lot at my shop. i had water in the system from testing earlier today. i wanted to get it purged from the system


I test every sprayer by spraying water thru it, even when it's below freezing. Followed by some 90/10 mix to assure there will be no freezing of the sprayer.

My favorite time to test with water is when it's sunny and warm out. I'm just aching for one of my neighbors to ask why I keep spraying my concrete drive.


----------



## GSS LLC

give them some far out bs answer. some sealer/cure that extends the life and prevents cracking, even cures the common cold. haha. people are really confused as to what i have in the back of my truck. no one around here uses liquid, no one.


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1576884 said:


> give them some far out bs answer. some sealer/cure that extends the life and prevents cracking, even cures the common cold. haha. people are really confused as to what i have in the back of my truck. no one around here uses liquid, no one.


Especially the neighbor to the east of me.....I know given a little time he will be watering his driveway too. :laughing: As I sit on my patio with a glass of sweet tea watching him use his sprinkler can making multiple trips to the only outside faucet on the back side of his house. No I'm not like that with all my neighbors just the special ones.

Being first in your area can give you some advantage.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I love the looks I would get when I spray the night before the storm and the pavement is completely dry with no snow BEFORE I get there. Priceless.


----------



## GSS LLC

I am having a hard time getting the fittings to not leak. Seems the bigger fittings dribble a little bit.


----------



## Wiedmann

GSS LLC;1576870 said:


> i sprayed my own lot at my shop. i had water in the system from testing earlier today. i wanted to get it purged from the system


Looks like you're set up to make some good money buy doing liquid. I'll be doing my first job tomorrow on a parking lot in prep for the freezing rain that will be here on sunday morning. I take it they are calling for the same thing in Omaha?

Got 400 gallons bought today and ready to try my new set up out for the first time. Hope it works as planned payup


----------



## GSS LLC

Oh, you must be talking about the rain we are scheduled to get
F.m.l. I busted but to get this done in time, now we're getting rain


----------



## Wiedmann

Freezing rain here in the a.m. on sunday and then rain... you spraying salt brine or calcium chloride?


----------



## GSS LLC

Calcium chloride


----------



## Wiedmann

Everyone around here seems to using salt brine, not sure why that is though. was curious what the market was like to west of me. seen you said no one is really doing liquid out in your area. i think its the next thing in commercial snow removal.


----------



## GSS LLC

No one is spraying liquid here. Over the summer I'll make a salt brine setup. For this year it's easier to buy LCC.


----------



## GSS LLC

I talked to a guy that's been doing snow for decades here. He said in the 90's everyone tried liquids. And didn't like them said I was dumb for trying v stated all these reasons why liquids don't work. Which happened to be every reason why I hear they do work. I don't know if people are doing it wrong or what.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

GSS LLC;1577108 said:


> I talked to a guy that's been doing snow for decades here. He said in the 90's everyone tried liquids. And didn't like them said I was dumb for trying v stated all these reasons why liquids don't work. Which happened to be every reason why I hear they do work. *I don't know if people are doing it wrong or what.*


Thats correct... There were alot of people who tried liquid in the 90's and in 2007 or '08 when rock salt skyrocketed. Thats why if you look on craigslist or Ebay you can find ALOT of great deals on Name brand Sprayers.

The problem was, Everyone thought it was easy as rock where you can get 10MPH in a lot and just slap it on every which way and it will just react no problem. But in reality, liquid is very complicated. It required you to use your head... You have to know the storm, temperature, etc. You really have to have Both. I dont know of one person who has gotten away from rock salt completely by using liquid.

FYI GSS the sprayer looks great


----------



## Kubota 8540

BigBoyPlowin;1577155 said:


> Thats correct... There were alot of people who tried liquid in the 90's and in 2007 or '08 when rock salt skyrocketed. Thats why if you look on craigslist or Ebay you can find ALOT of great deals on Name brand Sprayers. Most are not suitable for de-icing liquids. They are high pressure, low volume type. They are just opposite of what you need for liquid salts.
> 
> The problem was, Everyone thought it was easy as rock where you can get 10MPH in a lot and just slap it on every which way and it will just react no problem. But if you need a sprayer to spray 10, 20, 30, or 50 mph by chance, just let me know, and I'll build it for you. City project was setup for 30 mph. But in reality, liquid is very complicated. It required you to use your head... You have to know the storm, temperature, etc.Absolutely You really have to have Both. AbsolutelyI dont know of one person who has gotten away from rock salt completely by using liquid. I have talked to a few, but when asked about their gallon usage, it's very high and they should have used rock salt
> 
> FYI GSS the sprayer looks great


I agree with most of what you said. It's nice to have another option at hand. I just have to quit selling my sprayer in the middle of every winter. LOL When I started using liquids it cut my salt usage from 50 ton down 25 ton, but I still make the same as when I was using the 50 ton. I need to build a new sprayer, but I need to use up some of my trial and error parts when doing so. But I seem to be riding this dam honey do thing this winter.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1577171 said:


> I agree with most of what you said. It's nice to have another option at hand. I just have to quit selling my sprayer in the middle of every winter. LOL When I started using liquids it cut my salt usage from 50 ton down 25 ton, but I still make the same as when I was using the 50 ton. I need to build a new sprayer, but I need to use up some of my trial and error parts when doing so. But I seem to be riding this dam honey do thing this winter.


Haha.. I have one of those lists here at my house too.

After thinking a lot about the liquid, I also believe it has its time and place. From experience, when it's cold like this week, better off not spraying. It melts, but it is limited because of the very cold temps. Especially the sidewalks...this week with just half inch snows and no spray put on them, I used my large leaf blower and cleaned sidewalks easily.

I used approx. 400 gallons of liquid last night on approx.3 acre lot. (try to post pics) This morning, went back and it was slushy, greasy but hadn't all melted off.

I find when it's real cold...5 above to minus 15, the light snows seem to evaporate from parking lot.


----------



## MF 5455

Another pic taken this morning approx. 4 hrs. after I sprayed


----------



## Kubota 8540

I think at that cold of temps you would be better off spraying LCC instead of a blend. I have sprayed LCC at -7F on an inch of snow and had a total melt in 45 minutes.

But if you look at the lines that you sprayed, they are a total melt. The height of the boom nozzles will determine how much distance in between those lines. I didn't like the results I had when those lines were 7-8 inches apart. But when I narrowed those distances down to 5 inches I felt it was good and got a better melt.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1577253 said:


> I think at that cold of temps you would be better off spraying LCC instead of a blend. I have sprayed LCC at -7F on an inch of snow and had a total melt in 45 minutes.
> 
> But if you look at the lines that you sprayed, they are a total melt. The height of the boom nozzles will determine how much distance in between those lines. I didn't like the results I had when those lines were 7-8 inches apart. But when I narrowed those distances down to 5 inches I felt it was good and got a better melt.


I am spraying at approx. 16". I shut off the fan nozzles, and only used triple jet.

I think I should have cleaned off sidewalks, and went home to bed...:laughing:

Once you start, you have to stay with it to get results. Overall, with temps as cold as they were, I was pleased with results. Had it been 20 dwg or so, it would be clear now and drying.

I need the experience to know what is best and when / how. Hands on is the best teacher of all. I could spend hours out there. I enjoy my work.


----------



## DodgeBlizzard

Kubota 8540;1576900 said:


> I love the looks I would get when I spray the night before the storm and the pavement is completely dry with no snow BEFORE I get there. Priceless.


I just had a customer emailed me after two seasons of changing over to liquid, asking what we were doing putting down some sort of clear liquid on dry pavement and it wasn't even snowing or anything. Uggg


----------



## Wiedmann

Seems like every road and highway around me has been pre treated since friday. They were all using a salt brine.


----------



## Wiedmann

went and did my first application ever with calcium chloride today. Overall went really well. didn't take to long to figure out the easiest way to apply it to this parking lot. just have to wait and see how it holds up if we get any freezing rain.


----------



## GSS LLC

Holy cow you have a lot of nozzles on your boom. What tips are you using? 

Kubota, what is the application rate for salt brine?


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1578068 said:


> Holy cow you have a lot of nozzles on your boom. What tips are you using?
> 
> Kubota, what is the application rate for salt brine?


Looks like he is using single stream tips with an adjustable at each end?

I have applied the 90/10 mix @40 to 120ish gpa depending on what I'm looking to accomplish. On average I would say 80-100 gpa is reasonable to me. That's about $17 per acre to treat.


----------



## leigh

Kubota 8540;1578156 said:


> Looks like he is using single stream tips with an adjustable at each end?
> 
> I have applied the 90/10 mix @40 to 120ish gpa depending on what I'm looking to accomplish. On average I would say 80-100 gpa is reasonable to me. That's about $17 per acre to treat.


How about time?It seems at those flow rates it would take a long time to lay down? I can salt an acre in 10mins.Just an observation


----------



## Kubota 8540

leigh;1578195 said:


> How about time?It seems at those flow rates it would take a long time to lay down? I can salt an acre in 10mins.Just an observation


Same time as to salt or less. It just depends on how fast you can safely drive as to how you set up your sprayer. A lot of sprayers are actually slow, from what I have seen in operation. I can set up a spray boom to easily spray 30+ gallons per minute? But I can't drive fast enough thru my lots to do so.


----------



## Wiedmann

GSS LLC;1578068 said:


> Holy cow you have a lot of nozzles on your boom. What tips are you using?
> 
> I'm not sure what they, I'll have to look at the sprayer when i go back out to the shop. I bought it all set up.
> 
> I went and looked at the parking lot i sprayed the liquid on yesterday. Only had a couple spots with black ice. The rest of the parking lot and pavement had ice on it but didn't bond to the pavement and as soon as you drove over it with a vehicle it would break apart and wasn't that bad to walk on. Lots of "white" ice


----------



## GSS LLC

How much ice did you get? Did you have to spray again today? How did your lot look compared to those using rock salt?


----------



## Wiedmann

We might have gotten a couple tenths of an inch of ice. Most of the ice went northeast of here, from what i've heard roads are nearly passable up there. Around here the temps are around 39 degrees but there are still some icy spots left. 

i didn't ddi another application this morning on parking lot I pre treated last night, I would of loved to and clean it up faster but since the temps are suppose to be above freezing tonight and all of tomorrow I didn't want to upset anyone. I did throw a little salt down on the sidewalks coming out from the buildings just to give the residents a feeling of a assurance. I would say the biggest improvement over salting a parking lot is that the ice didn't bond to the pavement at all which would of most likely happened if there was no pre treatment and would of created more "black" ice.


----------



## MF 5455

We are set to receive up to 5" today, tonight. I sprayed the bare parking lots last night. We have 1" already, and with temps around 21 deg., it has melted all. Will see how it cleans up later tonight after snow quits. Freezing rain to follow tomorrow, and than rain. :crying:


----------



## Kubota 8540

45F here this morning, got to salt 1 customer yesterday out of this DANGEROUS ice storm? People at the National Weather Service need to stop drinking so many energy drinks. (Perhaps some detox) We are headed for a high of 50F today and 65+F tomorrow.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Sitting here this morning I had an interesting Internet find........http://www.murcal.com/Catalog/P610-Solenoid-Family/P610-A1V12









I'm determined to turn my sprayer on from the cab. LOL


----------



## leigh

Here's another thought from my always imaginative(crazy) mind.Would it be feasable to use a high vol/press. 110 voltelec pump run off a high out put inverter.Something that could replace gas pump and all it's drawbacks?


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

has anyone ever thought about using a tankless water heater/ other water heating element to warm their liquid before they spray it? Been thinking about it..

My ex-liquid supplier used to be next door to my shop, He said when they got filled the tanker would literally pull it out the well and bring it to him. Sometimes his tanks would have 8"+ on top of them. By the time they were completely filled, the tank's tops that were once filled with snow was melted! 
I think finding the temperature before the liquid crystalized could possibly cut down on salt usage.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1579081 said:


> Sitting here this morning I had an interesting Internet find........http://www.murcal.com/Catalog/P610-Solenoid-Family/P610-A1V12
> 
> View attachment 122588
> 
> 
> I'm determined to turn my sprayer on from the cab. LOL


The exercise will help you....just saying !!! :laughing:

And just how are you thinking of making this work ?

The more high tech we make these sprayers, the less we will be able to afford them. It would take a large heating coil to keep my brine warm. I sprayed 400 gallons last night in a matter of an hour. Besides, my brine sits outdoors where it is cold ??? The calcium chloride agitating with the salt brine will melt the snow off my sprayer tank tho.

I have plans on paper now for my all in one setup for next year. I found a 500 gallon tank on legs, (formed), which will keep me under my weight limit. Without a full v box I can go larger, but if I salt with that also, Than I have to be careful.

I only want to hook up system with hydraulic driven pump. The rest will come together. I found a nice size aluminum box with lid (used) which I purchased to put my pumps, valves and solenoid cluster in. Those items will be protected from the weather, and easier to maintain. Going to drill holes in the sides of it for hoses etc., and plug them with grommets. May not need a 12 volt pump for pre wetting since I can connect into plumbing for main sprayer. Will use a similar control box in cab like I have in tractor.

Still snowing ...we have new snow of 4" today.


----------



## GSS LLC

1-2" tomorrow night and 22 degrees. I think I can finally use my sprayer!


----------



## Kubota 8540

At 45F I'm thinking of mounting a SQUEEGEE on my truck?


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Kubota 8540;1579593 said:


> At 45F I'm thinking of mounting a SQUEEGEE on my truck?


Im personally thinking about buying a Big Tanker/Vac Truck. Just Got a message from a HOA Asking me if there was anything that i could do about the water in the streets under my current contract. She Said its upwards of 4" on some streets...


----------



## Kubota 8540

BigBoyPlowin;1579603 said:


> Im personally thinking about buying a Big Tanker/Vac Truck. Just Got a message from a HOA Asking me if there was anything that i could do about the water in the streets under my current contract. She Said its upwards of 4" on some streets...


4"? That can be plowed. :laughing:


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Kubota 8540;1579624 said:


> 4"? That can be plowed. :laughing:


Yeah but i dont care about it.. lol especially when im not being paid for it! 
Its just going to come back! Told her to call the county road commission to unclog the drains!


----------



## GSS LLC

Drizzle showers tomorrow morning, snow starts at 6. Reliable source says 1". Local weather says up to three. Low of 22. What can I expect if I spray around 4 after the drizzle stops???


----------



## Wiedmann

we are having thunder storms here right now. watching it lighting and thunder and downpour. first time we have seen rain come down this hard since last spring..


----------



## GSS LLC

You in des Moines?


----------



## Wiedmann

south of des moines about 20 minutes. be interesting to see if we get this 1-3 inches tomorrow night. I'm super packed with bidding properties and working some small skid loader jobs right now, i wish it would snow on like thursday or friday but I'll take what we can get


----------



## GSS LLC

Indianola or Norwalk I assume?


----------



## Wiedmann

now you're just creeping outside my window  Yah I live west of Indianola and south of norwalk, near the town of Martensdale.


----------



## GSS LLC

Haha. I stomped around there for a few years. I am always amazed, there are over 14 or18 private auto repair shops in Indianola. I don't see how they all stay in business.


----------



## Kubota 8540

leigh;1579103 said:


> Here's another thought from my always imaginative(crazy) mind.Would it be feasable to use a high vol/press. 110 voltelec pump run off a high out put inverter.Something that could replace gas pump and all it's drawbacks?


I would think that an inverter heavy duty enough, or dependable enough to run something with that sort of amperage would be VERY expensive?



BigBoyPlowin;1579112 said:


> has anyone ever thought about using a tankless water heater/ other water heating element to warm their liquid before they spray it? Been thinking about it..
> 
> My ex-liquid supplier used to be next door to my shop, He said when they got filled the tanker would literally pull it out the well and bring it to him. Sometimes his tanks would have 8"+ on top of them. By the time they were completely filled, the tank's tops that were once filled with snow was melted!
> I think finding the temperature before the liquid crystalized could possibly cut down on salt usage.


Would the benefit of warm liquid exceed the cost of doing so? Insulated tank, propane, etc? I think there is a couple people on Plowsite that either does so or has done.



MF 5455;1579212 said:


> The exercise will help you....just saying !!! :laughing:
> 
> And just how are you thinking of making this work ?
> 
> The more high tech we make these sprayers, the less we will be able to afford them. It would take a large heating coil to keep my brine warm. I sprayed 400 gallons last night in a matter of an hour. Besides, my brine sits outdoors where it is cold ??? The calcium chloride agitating with the salt brine will melt the snow off my sprayer tank tho.
> 
> I have plans on paper now for my all in one setup for next year. I found a 500 gallon tank on legs, (formed), which will keep me under my weight limit. Without a full v box I can go larger, but if I salt with that also, Than I have to be careful.
> 
> I only want to hook up system with hydraulic driven pump. The rest will come together. I found a nice size aluminum box with lid (used) which I purchased to put my pumps, valves and solenoid cluster in. Those items will be protected from the weather, and easier to maintain. Going to drill holes in the sides of it for hoses etc., and plug them with grommets. May not need a 12 volt pump for pre wetting since I can connect into plumbing for main sprayer. Will use a similar control box in cab like I have in tractor.
> 
> Still snowing ...we have new snow of 4" today.


I think thats how much rain we're suppose to get in the next couple days. 57F right now. Mother nature is having hot flashes.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

hello Kubota. I have a couple questions hope you can help.i go thru 3 tons of salt a day, how much liquid would I have to use (salt brine) to achieve same. gallons. also would like to know where you buy and what type of hose your using on brine tanks// yellow and green hose in your videos. hope you can help thx .


----------



## Kubota 8540

bytheyardlandsc;1580109 said:


> hello Kubota. I have a couple questions hope you can help.i go thru 3 tons of salt a day, how much liquid would I have to use (salt brine) to achieve same. gallons. also would like to know where you buy and what type of hose your using on brine tanks// yellow and green hose in your videos. hope you can help thx .


That will depend on the moisture content of the snow. But on average the 230 pounds of rock salt in the salt brine (100 gallons of brine) will do the work of the normal 750 pounds of rock salt on an acre lot.

The green or yellow hose is fertilizer hose, can be bought at a farm store or here ...... http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.2006.4388/3636


----------



## GSS LLC

I sprayed a gas station today. 1.25 acres and including walks surrounding the building I sprayed 60 gallons. I think I am applying to heavy I will post pics when I get to the shop.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

so 750 goes into 6000 lbs of rock (3tons) salt 8 times, that means I have to carry 800 gallons, that weighs 8000 pounds? instead of 6000 lbs of rock salt. is this right ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

bytheyardlandsc;1580145 said:


> so 750 goes into 6000 lbs of rock (3tons) salt 8 times, that means I have to carry 800 gallons, that weighs 8000 pounds? instead of 6000 lbs of rock salt. is this right ?


Yes the weight will be more but your saving 2 ton of rock salt by using brine

Wrong math.

You are using 6,000 pounds (3 ton) which you are using to treat approx 7-8 acres?

2,000 pounds rock salt = 800 gallons of salt brine

80-100 gallons per acre = 1 ton rock salt rather than 3 tons = savings of 2 ton


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

bytheyardlandsc;1580145 said:


> so 750 goes into 6000 lbs of rock (3tons) salt 8 times, that means I have to carry 800 gallons, that weighs 8000 pounds? instead of 6000 lbs of rock salt. is this right ?


You're taking an exact number of your rock salt and comparing it to a broad ranged number (liquid).

Personally my brine is a little more potent so Its more like 100-125 gallons to a ton.

Therefore my weight woud be Approx. 3750 pounds of liquid.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

I understand the what big boy is saying, sometimes I use more some times less depends on weather of course. same would be true with liquid. just trying to figure out a few things. ok gtg salt delivery on its way . talk to you guys latter your help is always apeciated.


----------



## GSS LLC

*Pics*

HERE ARE PICS!

it took 60 gallons to do this gas station/countrystore/co-op office building and parking lot with sidewalks. I thing its like 1.25 acres of total parking lot. I think i sprayed too heavy. what is your opinions?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1580151 said:


> Yes the weight will be more but your saving 2 ton of rock salt by using brine
> 
> Wrong math.
> 
> You are using 6,000 pounds (3 ton) which you are using to treat approx 7-8 acres?
> 
> 2,000 pounds rock salt = 800 gallons of salt brine
> 
> 80-100 gallons per acre = 1 ton rock salt rather than 3 tons = savings of 2 ton


Hey Kubota and others with thoughts...

I also spray close to 8-10 acres. I am spraying around 80-100 gpa. My only issue is time spent spraying. I would like to spend less time doing this. I think I need to add more nozzles, or, increase size of tips ??? It takes me longer to cover same area with brine, than it would cover with v box. I know v box will sling out further than spray, and also it's a mind thing as well. On white snow I can see the sand / salt being applied. On packed lot, I cannot see the effects immediately. I attribute this to why it takes longer to apply ???

I have 8 triple stream jets, 6 adjustable nozzles. Personally, I think a high volume fan spray...8-10" wide when it hits asphalt would be better when anti icing. I want to speed up my travel so I don't wet area too much instead of going slower to wet enough. The hydraulic pump has the capability of supplying the liquid, I need different / more tips to apply it. Presently I can / could spray with pressures up to 100 psi and 20 gpm. I have been spraying at 60 psi and not sure how many gpm's. It takes me approx. 60-75 min to spray 400 gallons. This excludes refilling the tank. Roughly with some quick calc's., probably 4-5-6 gpm. Some quick, inexpensive remedy ???

The triple jets are great for de icing, but I feel the dry asphalt (anti icing) cleans up better if entire lot is damp.

BTW, I had excellent results with the clean up. Bare asphalt appeared when I plowed. Problem...it rained and froze inch of ice on top of everything after I was finished. :realmad:


----------



## MF 5455

GSS LLC;1580240 said:


> HERE ARE PICS!
> 
> it took 60 gallons to do this gas station/countrystore/co-op office building and parking lot with sidewalks. I thing its like 1.25 acres of total parking lot. I think i sprayed too heavy. what is your opinions?


I think it looks great. You did a nice job getting it covered. Sure beats the v box, huh ?

BTW gas there is not bad price. We're paying $1.23 liter here, or $4.64 gallon.

Good luck


----------



## MF 5455

GSS LLC;1580240 said:


> HERE ARE PICS!
> 
> it took 60 gallons to do this gas station/countrystore/co-op office building and parking lot with sidewalks. I thing its like 1.25 acres of total parking lot. I think i sprayed too heavy. what is your opinions?


How long approx. did it take you to spray this lot ?

Do you have pics of sprayer in operation ?


----------



## MF 5455

BigBoyPlowin;1580152 said:


> You're taking an exact number of your rock salt and comparing it to a broad ranged number (liquid).
> 
> Personally my brine is a little more potent so Its more like 100-125 gallons to a ton.
> 
> Therefore my weight woud be Approx. 3750 pounds of liquid.


Why is your brine more potent ? Something different used than the 90 / 10 mix, or did you just mean you use more per acre ?


----------



## GSS LLC

MF 5455;1580281 said:


> How long approx. did it take you to spray this lot ?
> 
> Do you have pics of sprayer in operation ?


It took me about 15 minutes to do it. same time as sanding, only i didnt have to worry about sand/salt bridging, chunks clogging, even coverage issues, etc. way easier. cleaner, less work.

Here is a pic of it spraying.


----------



## GSS LLC

Here is an areal view of the lot. what do you think, 60 gallons sound right?, heavy?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1580269 said:


> Hey Kubota and others with thoughts...
> 
> I also spray close to 8-10 acres. I am spraying around 80-100 gpa. My only issue is time spent spraying. I would like to spend less time doing this. I think I need to add more nozzles, or, increase size of tips ??? It takes me longer to cover same area with brine, than it would cover with v box. I know v box will sling out further than spray, and also it's a mind thing as well. On white snow I can see the sand / salt being applied. On packed lot, I cannot see the effects immediately. I attribute this to why it takes longer to apply ???
> 
> I have 8 triple stream jets, 6 adjustable nozzles. Personally, I think a high volume fan spray...8-10" wide when it hits asphalt would be better when anti icing. I want to speed up my travel so I don't wet area too much instead of going slower to wet enough. The hydraulic pump has the capability of supplying the liquid, I need different / more tips to apply it. Presently I can / could spray with pressures up to 100 psi and 20 gpm. I have been spraying at 60 psi and not sure how many gpm's. It takes me approx. 60-75 min to spray 400 gallons. This excludes refilling the tank. Roughly with some quick calc's., probably 4-5-6 gpm. Some quick, inexpensive remedy ???
> 
> The triple jets are great for de icing, but I feel the dry asphalt (anti icing) cleans up better if entire lot is damp.
> 
> BTW, I had excellent results with the clean up. Bare asphalt appeared when I plowed. Problem...it rained and froze inch of ice on top of everything after I was finished. :realmad:


Either add a tip in between what you have ( I prefer this idea ) or go for a bigger tip Sj-3 Black is what I use. If I remember right your pump is the Hypro Silvercast and at 1,000 rpm it will spray 20 gpm or 540 rpm it only sprays 10-12 gpm? What are you currently running the pump at 540 or 1,000 rpm?


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1580303 said:


> Here is an areal view of the lot. what do you think, 60 gallons sound right?, heavy?


Depends on the surface texture. Smooth asphalt, takes less than older asphalt. 60 gpa is light for how and what I spray, but you will have to experiment to find what works best for you and your lots. I'm already saving/making a decent amount of money by spraying, so I'm not afraid to put down 100 gpa @.17 per gallon.


----------



## MF 5455

GSS LLC;1580303 said:


> Here is an areal view of the lot. what do you think, 60 gallons sound right?, heavy?


Nice set up. Seems to have great pressure from those jets. What tip size are you using ? How much pressure are you spraying with ? Do you have any plans for adding boomless nozzles, or does your situation call for it ?

I'm not an expert on coverage for lots, but it appears to be good coverage. I think I'm probably spraying 80-100 gallons per acre. Every sprayer is set up different, and how dry and cold / warm the asphalt is could contribute to amounts. We all have a different approach on how we do things. What works for you, may not for me...vice-versa.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I think the coverage looks good.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1580334 said:


> Either add a tip in between what you have ( I prefer this idea ) or go for a bigger tip Sj-3 Black is what I use. If I remember right your pump is the Hypro Silvercast and at 1,000 rpm it will spray 20 gpm or 540 rpm it only sprays 10-12 gpm? What are you currently running the pump at 540 or 1,000 rpm?


My pump is the Ace hydraulic drive centrifugal....P3PT-FMC. I have the 15-20 gpm model. Suction 1-1/2"...discharge 1-1/4". Max. pressure is 120. The supply lines to the booms are 1/2" i.d. This pic was a test with water. I also want to add at least one more boomless beside present one for more coverage of wide walks.


----------



## GSS LLC

I don't know what boomless nozzles are. I'm using the black sj-3 tips. Spreading LCC


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## GSS LLC

And my gauge says 30 psi is what I'm spraying.


----------



## Kubota 8540

boom supply lines are 1/2"? That is kind of small. Where it hooks up at the valve, what size threads are on the boom valve.?

The stream coming out of the triple tips seem small compared to mine.


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1580373 said:


> I don't know what boomless nozzles are. I'm using the black sj-3 tips. Spreading LCC


Spraying LCC at 60 gpa you are probably fine. I was thinking you were spraying salt brine....oopps.

Boomless...... http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.816


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## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC....Did you get any looks yet? Like wtf is he doing spraying to make the pavement wet? I love the looks you get at first.

MF 5455... I see you brought the shovel in case that Massy gets in trouble. :laughing:


----------



## GSS LLC

YUP!!! At first the property manager was not giving me the time of day when i went into his office to tell him what i was about to try. by the time i got going, he was out the door watching from the sidewalk, then he asked if i wanted to have all the employees move their cars so i could spray the parking stalls. lol. he watched me spray the sidewalks from my driver seat with the wand as i drove past. he was intrigued. A LOT of people stared, like i was insane. a few asked if i was spraying a sealer. i just said yes. haha.


----------



## GSS LLC

so, boomless nozzles, how do they hook up? do they spray really wide? i need pics and clarification here. im confused.


----------



## GSS LLC

so this would be one boomless nozzle? looks like they spray around the diamater of the tip in a big fan pattern?










this seems like the ticket? or do they not put out enough product?


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

MF 5455;1580358 said:


> My pump is the Ace hydraulic drive centrifugal....P3PT-FMC. I have the 15-20 gpm model. Suction 1-1/2"...discharge 1-1/4". Max. pressure is 120. The supply lines to the booms are 1/2" i.d. This pic was a test with water. I also want to add at least one more boomless beside present one for more coverage of wide walks.


Are your Fan/cone nozzles and direct stream nozzles on a different solenoid or do you always just spray "All out" like that?
Thats what I want in my boom only I hate the long pipe behind the truck.


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1580413 said:


> so, boomless nozzles, how do they hook up? do they spray really wide? i need pics and clarification here. im confused.


They are plumbed into a tee fitting. 1 inlet from your pump and the 2 others can spray 5' - 40' each side. http://www.dultmeier.com/prod-info.asp?info=bmMM-120-Nozzle-Charts.jpg


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

GSS LLC;1580373 said:


> I don't know what boomless nozzles are. I'm using the black sj-3 tips. Spreading LCC


Boomless tips would of just made your spray pattern less "streamy" (You wouldnt see all the lines)

So instead of spaying your direct streams it would look more evenly distributed / Fanned Out. 
like so









I'll upload another pic of my boom but I have 4 Boomless nozzles and i can spray Just the "Inners" and it will cover the width of the truck so like 10' ish.. Then I can turn on the second switch which turns on the outer 2 nozzles which opens my spray pattern So i can spray curb to curb. Which is about 25'


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1580416 said:


> so this would be one boomless nozzle? looks like they spray around the diamater of the tip in a big fan pattern?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this seems like the ticket? or do they not put out enough product?


If you set them up at a different height than what they call for they will work fine for anti-icing. But I still prefer the SJ-3 Black triple stream tips as a all purpose tip.


----------



## GSS LLC

Boom tips do seem like they would be more of an even coat. specially on the ends, you could use boom tips to really get a wide spray. I may make a boomless tip setup to try one of these days.


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1580432 said:


> Boom tips do seem like they would be more of an even coat. specially on the ends, you could use boom tips to really get a wide spray. I may make a boomless tip setup to try one of these days.


I set one up that sprayed (2) x 10' each = 20' on one valve and (2) x 40' wide each on another valve = 80' wide. It went to Iowa.


----------



## GSS LLC

Im going to use a 10ft stick, jet nozzles all the way through, and big ol boomless nozzles at the end, two engines to pump it, and im gonna outdo anything ever done, ever. Im going to have to close down the lot im in to use it, and have pumping stations every 200 feet to refill, but it would be spectacular.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

GSS LLC;1580432 said:


> Boom tips do seem like they would be more of an even coat. specially on the ends, you could use boom tips to really get a wide spray. I may make a boomless tip setup to try one of these days.


Yeah Just don't get the stupid single boomless nozzles mounted as high as that tailgate like in that pic you posted! Little kids don't like getting smacked in the face with liquid as you're truck flys while spraying..

heres my boom.


----------



## GSS LLC

man, thats awsome! your booms invisable! where did you buy that? haha


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1580447 said:


> Im going to use a 10ft stick, jet nozzles all the way through, and big ol boomless nozzles at the end, two engines to pump it, and im gonna outdo anything ever done, ever. Im going to have to close down the lot im in to use it, and have pumping stations every 200 feet to refill, but it would be spectacular.


:laughing: You don't need two engines, you have enough pump and engine to handle 2 boomless and 10' stick. You will need to add a 2nd valve to handle the boomless though. Why close down the lot? Just charge each car for a de-icing.! The refill part maybe. I hooked those nozzle setups to a 1035 gallon tank.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

GSS LLC;1580452 said:


> man, thats awsome! your booms invisable! where did you buy that? haha


lol Forgot they make you look for your pic, if its already been posted in this thread before.


----------



## MF 5455

BigBoyPlowin;1580419 said:


> Are your Fan/cone nozzles and direct stream nozzles on a different solenoid or do you always just spray "All out" like that?
> Thats what I want in my boom only I hate the long pipe behind the truck.


My fan nozzles and triple jets are on one switch. Nozzles on each end are separately operated. When i was de icing the other day, I opened up the fan nozzles to be more direct for cutting the snow and ice. I want to separate the fan from the triples though. This way I can add more fan to one boom, and perhaps one or two more triple jets. My boom actually folds up so it's not in the way. Next year I plan to have the outer 2 booms on a hyd cylinder to raise and lower from tractor cab.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1580396 said:


> GSS LLC....Did you get any looks yet? Like wtf is he doing spraying to make the pavement wet? I love the looks you get at first.
> 
> MF 5455... I see you brought the shovel in case that Massy gets in trouble. :laughing:


Haha... gotta have some way to dig my way out...don't dare call another color in. :laughing:

I will check tomorrow on valve fittings. I'm not sure the size coming out. I was also thinking that there isn't a lot of pressure with those. I looked in manual and it says 3/4" x 1/2" reducer ??? Although I did remove those small inserts inside the triple jet tips and it increased the pressure quite a bit. The triples are SJ3-015-VP...green in color. The in line filter is a 50 mesh stainless. Maybe I need to change or replace something else to increase volume.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1580389 said:


> Spraying LCC at 60 gpa you are probably fine. I was thinking you were spraying salt brine....oopps.
> 
> Boomless...... http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.811.816


Which boom less nozzle from Dultmeier are you referring to ? There are several listed. A person would have to have them at right height or if windy out...well, goodbye brine !!!

To use those, I would need to add a small extension on dry boom ends at the proper angle to achieve the spray pattern needed for sidewalks.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1580511 said:


> Haha... gotta have some way to dig my way out...don't dare call another color in. :laughing:
> 
> I will check tomorrow on valve fittings. I'm not sure the size coming out. I was also thinking that there isn't a lot of pressure with those. I looked in manual and it says 3/4" x 1/2" reducer ??? Although I did remove those small inserts inside the triple jet tips and it increased the pressure quite a bit. The triples are SJ3-015-VP...green in color. The in line filter is a 50 mesh stainless. Maybe I need to change or replace something else to increase volume.


It sounds like a volume situation. 1/2" is usually pretty restrictive. Smallest I ever use is 3/4" hose.









There are 2 green size nozzles. Is yours the 1st or the next to last?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1580517 said:


> Which boom less nozzle from Dultmeier are you referring to ? There are several listed. A person would have to have them at right height or if windy out...well, goodbye brine !!!
> 
> To use those, I would need to add a small extension on dry boom ends at the proper angle to achieve the spray pattern needed for sidewalks.


The Boom Buster and the Boom Extenders mount in a tee fitting. But I know if your using the Field Jet you can set them at half as high and get twice the gpa and 1/2 the width?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1580511 said:


> Haha... gotta have some way to dig my way out...don't dare call another color in. :laughing:
> 
> I will check tomorrow on valve fittings. I'm not sure the size coming out. I was also thinking that there isn't a lot of pressure with those. I looked in manual and it says 3/4" x 1/2" reducer ??? Although I did remove those small inserts inside the triple jet tips and it increased the pressure quite a bit. The triples are SJ3-015-VP...green in color. The in line filter is a 50 mesh stainless. Maybe I need to change or replace something else to increase volume.


I missed your post, I was cutting tile for under my corn stove so I can set it in a new location. Your problem starts with your tips. They are TOO small. They are the first on the list in green size. Look at gpm, it's only like .11? I use 1.75 - 2.0 Black


----------



## Kubota 8540

Just trying to repost the same pic. It works. Now just need to figure out how to remember where I posted the pic I want to repost. Attachments gives me the thread not the page.


----------



## Fourbycb

Can anyone tell me why I am have problems with my Tee Jet spray tip's clogging up. I have 5 Triple spray tips and 3 of the 5 tips are always not wanting to spray . I remove the tips and nothing is plugged and then I remove the side pressure cap and they seem to be working nuttin is froze / seized up the spring moves freely, So whats my problem


----------



## Kubota 8540

Fourbycb;1580669 said:


> Can anyone tell me why I am have problems with my Tee Jet spray tip's clogging up. I have 5 Triple spray tips and 3 of the 5 tips are always not wanting to spray . I remove the tips and nothing is plugged and then I remove the side pressure cap and they seem to be working nuttin is froze / seized up the spring moves freely, So whats my problem


Do you have tip strainer screens above your nozzle tips? They tuck up inside the nozzle body.

Or how big of a pump are you using? Have enough volume to use 5 tips?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1580580 said:


> It sounds like a volume situation. 1/2" is usually pretty restrictive. Smallest I ever use is 3/4" hose.
> 
> View attachment 122681
> 
> 
> There are 2 green size nozzles. Is yours the 1st or the next to last?


Mine are the first ones...smaller of the two.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1580709 said:


> Mine are the first ones...smaller of the two.


Yes its a volume situation, I have never used anything smaller than grays. These triples work awesome once you get everything dialed in.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1580597 said:


> I missed your post, I was cutting tile for under my corn stove so I can set it in a new location. Your problem starts with your tips. They are TOO small. They are the first on the list in green size. Look at gpm, it's only like .11? I use 1.75 - 2.0 Black


The valve body (solenoids) and control box etc., were purchased from Texas Remcor so I'm told. The place I bought my sprayer told me they have good luck with those solenoids and quite a lot cheaper than Dultmeier. I'm not familiar with either company, so couldn't pass judgement.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1580723 said:


> The valve body (solenoids) and control box etc., were purchased from Texas Remcor so I'm told. The place I bought my sprayer told me they have good luck with those solenoids and quite a lot cheaper than Dultmeier. I'm not familiar with either company, so couldn't pass judgement.


I only reference Dultmeier because they are close to me, about 1 hour 15 minutes, and I am familiar with their website. I know I do buy some parts elsewhere because of price and sometimes features I like.










Hopefully the solenoids have reducers from 3/4 to 1/2" because that would be an easy an somewhat inexpensive fix. But I would first try just increasing the tip size to the SJ-3 Blacks, not screens required, just let the debris pass on thru.


----------



## Fourbycb

I have more than enought pump and motor for 5 tips. The tips causing me trouble are 1 single pencil tip and 2 SJ 3 triple tips. I did not realize there were screens up in the tips I will have to look into that. when it was warmer out everything worked fine great . and now that it has gotten colder is when I am having the problems


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1580737 said:


> I only reference Dultmeier because they are close to me, about 1 hour 15 minutes, and I am familiar with their website. I know I do buy some parts elsewhere because of price and sometimes features I like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully the solenoids have reducers from 3/4 to 1/2" because that would be an easy an somewhat inexpensive fix. But I would first try just increasing the tip size to the SJ-3 Blacks, not screens required, just let the debris pass on thru.


I went on line to manufacturer and read details. They are 3/4 inlet, same for by pass and 1/2 outlet to boom. I think they are set up to spray max. 7 gallon / minute. That should be enough volume. I need to change tip size I think.

How about the in line filter between tank and pump. Is the 50 mesh screen reducing flow to the pump ? I only want the capacity to spray volume, so I can finish job in timely and productive manner.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I like mixing in the fan or cone spray tips with the triples. It gives me a sense of total coverage. If the 1/2" tubing can handle the volume required by the Black SJ-3's then I'd leave it at that.

Just got a call to build a 48" x 72" 100 gallon sprayer with 2 electric pumps, hand wand, and 2 boomless nozzles BY SATURDAY?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1580751 said:


> I went on line to manufacturer and read details. They are 3/4 inlet, same for by pass and 1/2 outlet to boom. I think they are set up to spray max. 7 gallon / minute. That should be enough volume. I need to change tip size I think.
> 
> How about the in line filter between tank and pump. Is the 50 mesh screen reducing flow to the pump ? I only want the capacity to spray volume, so I can finish job in timely and productive manner.


AS long as the filter screen size is slightly smaller the the hole (orifice) size of the tips then all is good. You don't need to filter the liquid sprayed, down to the size of a hair if the holes in the tips are the size of pencil lead.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1580753 said:


> I like mixing in the fan or cone spray tips with the triples. It gives me a sense of total coverage. If the 1/2" tubing can handle the volume required by the Black SJ-3's then I'd leave it at that.
> 
> Just got a call to build a 48" x 72" 100 gallon sprayer with 2 electric pumps, hand wand, and 2 boomless nozzles BY SATURDAY?


YEAAAA !!! you can start now, work all night and be done with time left over to move that corn stove. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1580761 said:


> YEAAAA !!! you can start now, work all night and be done with time left over to move that corn stove. :laughing:


Hell of it is, I will have it done by Saturday and delivered unless it snows between now and then. Nothing like I need it NOW. But the contractor has been a steady customer so.......payup


----------



## GSS LLC

Sleep is for the weak. Build baby build! 
I'm dying here waiting for snow, to see how this stuff will work.


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1580792 said:


> Sleep is for the weak. Build baby build!
> I'm dying here waiting for snow, to see how this stuff will work.


Radar looks good for you tonight.

Spent a Hail of a night in Kearney, Nebraska about 9 years ago. Had been shopping at Cabela's there in Kearney and was headed back to the motel about a block away. Got back to the motel and stood with the rest of the gawkers in the parking lot watching the lightning show off to the northwest for about 20 minutes, went up to my room on the third floor to watch tv.. At about ten pm the air was dead calm outside, it went from dead calm to steady 60 mph wind in about 5 seconds. Started raining, then really started raining, then sudden calm for a few seconds, I knew what was next, hail. In North central Illinois if you get 2-3 minutes of hail, it's a big hail event. It started hailing, then it started really hailing, after 5 minutes it started getting serious at hailing, after ten minutes it was flata$$ coming down dime size plus, after 15 minutes I was glued to the window and it was nickel/quarter size. At this point I was completely impressed, but 20 minutes into it there was no more leaves left on anything, but when it started chunking chunks of ice I headed to the bathroom away from the windows. It was like having an out of control ice maker at 60,000 feet. 25 minutes of progressively heavier hail it was done. 4" of hail on the ground. Temp dropped 40 degrees. 12 hours later when I left, there was still 2" on the ground. City and state plows had plowed the roads. Very different.


----------



## GSS LLC

Well, so far I am not impressed. About 1/2" of snow down, and my lot is completely white. I was envisioning a total melt up to am inch. Am I expecting too much? Did something wrong? Need to be more patient? It's about 30 out.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

ok tested my sprayer tonight with water since its warm here.on average I was spraying 10-12 gpm could not run my route with 275 gallons. but we thought if I had another 150 gallons I could of made it. so 450 to 500 ish gallons to replace the 3 tons of salt I normally apply. that would be 5000 lbs of liquid vs 6000 lbs of salt. does that sound right?


----------



## Khowie644

bytheyardlandsc;1580838 said:


> ok tested my sprayer tonight with water since its warm here.on average I was spraying 10-12 gpm could not run my route with 275 gallons. but we thought if I had another 150 gallons I could of made it. so 450 to 500 ish gallons to replace the 3 tons of salt I normally apply. that would be 5000 lbs of liquid vs 6000 lbs of salt. does that sound right?


You're headed in the wrong direction, brine is measured in gallons applied.
So you would be putting down 500 gallons, which comes out to about 1150 lbs. of salt. So a savings of almost 5000lbs. of salt in your case.

How many gpa were you putting down?


----------



## Khowie644

GSS LLC;1580837 said:


> Well, so far I am not impressed. About 1/2" of snow down, and my lot is completely white. I was envisioning a total melt up to am inch. Am I expecting too much? Did something wrong? Need to be more patient? It's about 30 out.


Has anything melted at all?
Sounds like either not enough put down, or mixed wrong.


----------



## Khowie644

MF 5455

Nice looking sprayer set up, looks kind of like it was meant for crops though?
Change out all your tips, even your fan tips are the smallest that company makes.
That should increase flow x10, maybe remove mesh to like Kubota said, no sense removing such small particles when the tips are the size of pencil lead.
And if all of that isn't enough to get the flow how you like it, increase the size of the hose. Sounds like it should be pretty easy to get it to atleast 3/4" ?


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

not sure on the gpa. friend told me to google earth my parking lots and measure it that way. I did right down how long it took and how many gallon I used on each one. and I do realize im saving salt just trying not to overload my truck.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Fourbycb;1580741 said:


> I have more than enought pump and motor for 5 tips. The tips causing me trouble are 1 single pencil tip and 2 SJ 3 triple tips. I did not realize there were screens up in the tips I will have to look into that. when it was warmer out everything worked fine great . and now that it has gotten colder is when I am having the problems


Not always are there strainer screens, but they might have them. Is it plugging up with debris? What kind? Almost sounds like its freezing up. What liquid are you spraying.?


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1580837 said:


> Well, so far I am not impressed. About 1/2" of snow down, and my lot is completely white. I was envisioning a total melt up to am inch. It can in certain situationsAm I expecting too much? A little, sounds like you listened a little to well to the liquid salesmanDid something wrong?Maybe maybe not. 60 gallons for 1.25 acres. Depends on quality of liquid? Need to be more patient? A little. Patients grasshopper.It's about 30 out.30F means its a high moisture content snow. Liquids work BEST in lower temps and lower moisture content snow.





bytheyardlandsc;1580838 said:


> ok tested my sprayer tonight with water since its warm here.on average I was spraying 10-12 gpm could not run my route with 275 gallons. but we thought if I had another 150 gallons I could of made it. so 450 to 500 ish gallons to replace the 3 tons of salt I normally apply. that would be 5000 lbs of liquid vs 6000 lbs of salt. does that sound right?Sounds a little low on average but sometimes possible. Knowing how I salt, 750 pounds of salt per acre, I would translate that into you needing 800 gallons of liquid, to replace 3 ton of salt. But your 3 ton can make 2,500+ gallons of brine.


I see your concerned about the weight, but salt brine has it's benefits, and can save you money over all.


----------



## Kubota 8540

bytheyardlandsc;1580941 said:


> not sure on the gpa. friend told me to google earth my parking lots and measure it that way. I did right down how long it took and how many gallon I used on each one. and I do realize im saving salt just trying not to overload my truck.


Depending on the length of your route and if your sprayer is plumbed to do so, you can always place a tank / tote somewhere on your route so you can fill without going back to home base.

Brine weight to salt weight you can haul 600 gallons of brine and that would be approx same weight as 3 ton of salt.


----------



## MF 5455

Khowie644;1580886 said:


> MF 5455
> 
> Nice looking sprayer set up, looks kind of like it was meant for crops though?
> Change out all your tips, even your fan tips are the smallest that company makes.
> That should increase flow x10, maybe remove mesh to like Kubota said, no sense removing such small particles when the tips are the size of pencil lead.
> And if all of that isn't enough to get the flow how you like it, increase the size of the hose. Sounds like it should be pretty easy to get it to atleast 3/4" ?


Yes sir...it was built by a crop spraying company in Lititz, Pennsylvania. I had some changes made to make it more suitable for my needs. Hydraulic driven pump (135gpm), 1-1/2" suction side, 1-1/4" discharge for agitation and valve body. In cab control because I'm getting old and lazy...:laughing:

I am going to change out my tips, remove the tip screens and test with water since we lost all our snow overnight. Today it will be 50 deg here.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1580998 said:


> Depending on the length of your route and if your sprayer is plumbed to do so, you can always place a tank / tote somewhere on your route so you can fill without going back to home base.
> 
> Brine weight to salt weight you can haul 600 gallons of brine and that would be approx same weight as 3 ton of salt.


Kubota, question for you....

Yesterday morning, I had finished cleaning up lots, sidewalks. There was still a light snow covering on walks as it had flurried during cleanup. I sprayed brine on the walks. It melted off bare. During afternoon yesterday, it rained and froze. Temp about 25-27 deg. The sidewalks froze over completely. Is this normal ?

Considering we had such cold temps for a solid week prior to this, could it be that everything was still so cold that the rain froze more rapidly ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1581011 said:


> Yes sir...it was built by a crop spraying company in Lititz, Pennsylvania. I had some changes made to make it more suitable for my needs. Hydraulic driven pump (135gpm), 1-1/2" suction side, 1-1/4" discharge for agitation and valve body. In cab control because I'm getting old and lazy...:laughing:
> 
> I am going to change out my tips, remove the tip screens and test with water since we lost all our snow overnight. Today it will be 50 deg here.


I just fail to see the purpose of carrying that shovel around on the back of that sprayer unless it was mounted to a hydraulic arm. :laughing:

Experience stays properly mounted in the cab, youth dismounts and engages? 

We had 65F yesterday and is steadily dropping since, now 38F and going down.

Increasing tip size first then we can figure out from there. But you have more than enough pump. Should be able to spray in road gear with that out fit, just needs a little adjustment.

With a budget like yours and a day or two of my ability I'd have you spraying in road gear.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1581019 said:


> Kubota, question for you....
> 
> Yesterday morning, I had finished cleaning up lots, sidewalks. There was still a light snow covering on walks as it had flurried during cleanup. I sprayed brine on the walks. It melted off bare. During afternoon yesterday, it rained and froze. Temp about 25-27 deg. The sidewalks froze over completely. Is this normal ?
> 
> Considering we had such cold temps for a solid week prior to this, could it be that everything was still so cold that the rain froze more rapidly ?


Freezing rain just sucks, freezing drizzle not as bad. Even rock salt doesnt last long in a freezing rain. The brine just got diluted to the point it wouldn't work. Yes quite normal. I wish there was a product that was water proof that you could spray and would melt until its melting ability was gone. Soon as I figure that one out, I'll be a genius.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1581021 said:


> I just fail to see the purpose of carrying that shovel around on the back of that sprayer unless it was mounted to a hydraulic arm. :laughing:
> 
> Experience stays properly mounted in the cab, youth dismounts and engages?
> 
> We had 65F yesterday and is steadily dropping since, now 38F and going down.
> 
> Increasing tip size first then we can figure out from there. But you have more than enough pump. Should be able to spray in road gear with that out fit, just needs a little adjustment.
> 
> With a budget like yours and a day or two of my ability I'd have you spraying in road gear.


Haha....

First things first. The boom arms get cylinders first !!! Trying to recruit the wife for the use of shovel....

Yes it's 50 here now, going to be back down to 5 above by Friday...with some more snow.

I bet you would just love to get in my wallet for a new all-in-one unit....


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1581039 said:


> Haha....
> 
> First things first. The boom arms get cylinders first !!! Trying to recruit the wife for the use of shovel....
> 
> Yes it's 50 here now, going to be back down to 5 above by Friday...with some more snow.
> 
> I bet you would just love to get in my wallet for a new all-in-one unit....


Absolutely. I'd love to set that up. Fortunately I like what I do so it doesn't seem like a job. I have had few JOBS in my years, but I sure have put in a lot of hours of work.

Zero degrees F for a low tomorrow here. High Friday of 15F. What a temperature swing.

Maybe get the wife to lift the booms? Maybe less expensive too. Oh wait never mind, the hydraulic cylinders would be less expensive.


----------



## leigh

How about a design brainstorming session! I've got a poly 55 gal drum that I've been meaning to use to spray the bulk salt as it comes out of my under-taigate salter. Pump? line size,fittings,how many tips, what style, spray volume,do i need a valve,.Not sure at what rate salt comes out at.I'm going to turn it on without spinner and have it dump into a bucket and then weigh it.How much per ton for differant liquids,ie lcc,salt brine with lcc.Will pump self prime quickly? parts list and source would be nice  Drum will be mounted right behind cab in the dump bed.Bed is 11' long. Not a good pic,this was after I found out that the place that rebuilt my spinner motor wired it internally to rotate wrong way! Maybe someone can come to my shop and just build it for me!


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

how often do the tips clog. im talking about the sj seires that Kubota talks about?


----------



## GSS LLC

i ran 250 gallons of unfiltered, used storage tank that i cleaned out with a broom, specks from the hose cutting it with a hacksaw floaties. not a problem.


----------



## Kubota 8540

bytheyardlandsc;1581126 said:


> how often do the tips clog. im talking about the sj seires that Kubota talks about?


Maybe 1 or 2 tips per winter? Max.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

So picked up all my parts for my SJ3 boom im making. Going to be 8 ft and cover approx 9 ft for now. Question I have is if they recommend 20" high and 20" apart for spacing can I adjust that to 12" high and 12" apart and still get even spacing?


----------



## MF 5455

leigh;1581074 said:


> How about a design brainstorming session! I've got a poly 55 gal drum that I've been meaning to use to spray the bulk salt as it comes out of my under-taigate salter. Pump? line size,fittings,how many tips, what style, spray volume,do i need a valve,.Not sure at what rate salt comes out at.I'm going to turn it on without spinner and have it dump into a bucket and then weigh it.How much per ton for differant liquids,ie lcc,salt brine with lcc.Will pump self prime quickly? parts list and source would be nice  Drum will be mounted right behind cab in the dump bed.Bed is 11' long. Not a good pic,this was after I found out that the place that rebuilt my spinner motor wired it internally to rotate wrong way! Maybe someone can come to my shop and just build it for me!


Leigh...you better soon get to a car wash...:laughing:

Sure looks like the spinner was going backwards !!!!


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1581066 said:


> Absolutely. I'd love to set that up. Fortunately I like what I do so it doesn't seem like a job. I have had few JOBS in my years, but I sure have put in a lot of hours of work.
> 
> Zero degrees F for a low tomorrow here. High Friday of 15F. What a temperature swing.
> 
> Maybe get the wife to lift the booms? Maybe less expensive too. Oh wait never mind, the hydraulic cylinders would be less expensive.


Wife says she is going to monitor what we talk about on here...says you're a bad influence on me :laughing: I only asked her to lift booms AND use the shovel ?????

I took my triples apart today and took out filters. I also lifted the small inserts that fir in the top of tip. What a difference... the insert must be what the numbers stamped on tip are for. I checked with drill bit, and the insert is .015". The holes in the tip itself are around .040"

Put it back together, turned on sprayer and pressure was so much it started to lift rear of tractor off the ground....:laughing: I also adjusted hydraulic motor again, according to manual. I'm going to test a boom less tip I purchased today. Just want to see if this will help my coverage...quicker.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1581618 said:


> So picked up all my parts for my SJ3 boom im making. Going to be 8 ft and cover approx 9 ft for now. Question I have is if they recommend 20" high and 20" apart for spacing can I adjust that to 12" high and 12" apart and still get even spacing?


I honestly don't know the answer to that one. But over the weekend I could find out?


----------



## leigh

MF 5455;1581636 said:


> Leigh...you better soon get to a car wash...:laughing:
> 
> Sure looks like the spinner was going backwards !!!!


All cleaned up.What else can you do when it's 55 degs! Maybe get started on the sprayer


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1581645 said:


> Wife says she is going to monitor what we talk about on here...says you're a bad influence on me :laughing: I only asked her to lift booms AND use the shovel ?????
> 
> I took my triples apart today and took out filters. I also lifted the small inserts that fir in the top of tip. What a difference... the insert must be what the numbers stamped on tip are for. I checked with drill bit, and the insert is .015". The holes in the tip itself are around .040"
> 
> Put it back together, turned on sprayer and pressure was so much it started to lift rear of tractor off the ground....:laughing: I also adjusted hydraulic motor again, according to manual. I'm going to test a boom less tip I purchased today. Just want to see if this will help my coverage...quicker.


:laughing: Careful with lifting that Massey. Taking that insert out certainly makes a difference.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Picked up parts today for this electric 130 gallon sprayer


----------



## Kubota 8540

Plumbing is 99% finished, electrical on Thursday


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1581743 said:


> I honestly don't know the answer to that one. But over the weekend I could find out?


Sure if you could, ill race you to it cause I may test in the next couple of days. If I find out ill post my results here.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1581776 said:


> Sure if you could, ill race you to it cause I may test in the next couple of days. If I find out ill post my results here.


I know if you lower it, it will work ok, it will narrow the distance between the lines. I just don't know about the spacing. If I were to guess, I think your right.


----------



## MF 5455

leigh;1581744 said:


> All cleaned up.What else can you do when it's 55 degs! Maybe get started on the sprayer


I'm proud of you.... Looks so much better all cleaned up


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1581760 said:


> Plumbing is 99% finished, electrical on Thursday


Keep the pictures coming. At least we know you are DOING SOMETHING !!!!

I installed a left and right boom less today for sidewalks. Also added full spray boom less in center of boom with a shut off valve. This center boom less will be used for ant icing....when de icing, I will shut it off and let triple jets do their job. Gotta keep everyone happy here...:laughing:

Since i removed those inserts and screens I have like twice as much pressure on the triples.

Let's see....what else can I do to it...no snow for a while according to " the get paid to be wrong people "


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1581757 said:


> Picked up parts today for this electric 130 gallon sprayer
> View attachment 122754
> 
> 
> View attachment 122755
> 
> 
> View attachment 122756


In the bottom right pic...are the hose that's running back to top of tank for bypass ?
Are these pumps continuous run, or on-demand type ? Explain why your choice please.

Do you have a heavy cable running from truck battery back to the battery boxes for charging them while in use ?

How many gpm are these pumps ?


----------



## NorthernSvc's

well shes not beautiful but she sure works...
lessons learned from my first liquid rig build: PVC has no place... I was cheap and lazy and decided to do a few connections with PVC, lets just saw I will be replacing them as soon as my threaded parts get in...
total build was less than 1,000.00


----------



## NorthernSvc's

our brine maker: same issues try to stay away from PVC as much as possible.. we've had a few blowouts...

I might have stolen the idea for this brine maker from someone else....

thanks again for the tank Kubota! just like you said I have already outgrown that tank and this brinemaker... I got lucky and found a 3000 gallon tank on craigslist for 300.00 so now we use both... the 1,000.00 gallon tank will now be for calcium chloride.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1582155 said:


> In the bottom right pic...are the hose that's running back to top of tank for bypass ?
> Are these pumps continuous run, or on-demand type ? Explain why your choice please.
> 
> Do you have a heavy cable running from truck battery back to the battery boxes for charging them while in use ?
> 
> How many gpm are these pumps ?


The hoses are my supply suction hoses. They run to the top of the tank thru a bulkhead fitting that has a pickup tube screwed to the inside of it and is about 1/2" off the bottom of the tank. It helps prevent the liquid pushing thru the pumps and saves from buying an electric valve.

I prefer On Demand type. Saves battery life and works with the siphon tube design.

He doesn't / won't, but he could if he wanted to. He just hooks up a float/ charger.


----------



## Kubota 8540

NorthernSvc's;1582325 said:


> well shes not beautiful but she sure works...
> lessons learned from my first liquid rig build: PVC has no place... I was cheap and lazy and decided to do a few connections with PVC, lets just saw I will be replacing them as soon as my threaded parts get in...
> total build was less than 1,000.00


The pvc doesn't support much weight and doesn't take to much vibration.

Any particular reason that BLUE SHOP TOWEL is stuck in the exhaust pipe? Are you sure you got the plumbing right? Looks like it got sucked up in there :laughing:



NorthernSvc's;1582327 said:


> our brine maker: same issues try to stay away from PVC as much as possible.. we've had a few blowouts...
> 
> I might have stolen the idea for this brine maker from someone else....
> 
> thanks again for the tank Kubota! just like you said I have already outgrown that tank and this brinemaker... I got lucky and found a 3000 gallon tank on craigslist for 300.00 so now we use both... the 1,000.00 gallon tank will now be for calcium chloride.


Thought that design looked familiar.  It's suprising though how much you can make with it. If you made 1 batch a day for a week you would have roughly 3,000 gallons per week.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Kubota 8540;1582348 said:


> The pvc doesn't support much weight and doesn't take to much vibration.
> 
> Any particular reason that BLUE SHOP TOWEL is stuck in the exhaust pipe? Are you sure you got the plumbing right? Looks like it got sucked up in there :laughing:
> 
> lol yea I have no clue silly employees
> 
> Thought that design looked familiar.  It's suprising though how much you can make with it. If you made 1 batch a day for a week you would have roughly 3,000 gallons per week.


yes it definately makes a nice batch o brine in an hour.. gives the guys something to do while they are cleaning the shop


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Kubota 8540;1582348 said:


> The pvc doesn't support much weight and doesn't take to much vibration.
> 
> Any particular reason that BLUE SHOP TOWEL is stuck in the exhaust pipe? Are you sure you got the plumbing right? Looks like it got sucked up in there :laughing:
> 
> lol yea I have no clue silly employees
> 
> Thought that design looked familiar.  It's suprising though how much you can make with it. If you made 1 batch a day for a week you would have roughly 3,000 gallons per week.


yes it definately makes a nice batch o brine in an hour.. gives the guys something to do while they are cleaning the shop


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1582348 said:


> The pvc doesn't support much weight and doesn't take to much vibration.
> 
> Any particular reason that BLUE SHOP TOWEL is stuck in the exhaust pipe? Are you sure you got the plumbing right? Looks like it got sucked up in there :laughing:
> 
> Thought that design looked familiar.  It's suprising though how much you can make with it. If you made 1 batch a day for a week you would have roughly 3,000 gallons per week.


They are more powerful then that! We figure we can make a 3500 gal batch in 2 hours with a mini-ex feeding the mixing tank. How do you clean sediment out of these style tanks, just tip them over?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1582329 said:


> The hoses are my supply suction hoses. They run to the top of the tank thru a bulkhead fitting that has a pickup tube screwed to the inside of it and is about 1/2" off the bottom of the tank. It helps prevent the liquid pushing thru the pumps and saves from buying an electric valve.
> 
> I prefer On Demand type. Saves battery life and works with the siphon tube design.
> 
> He doesn't / won't, but he could if he wanted to. He just hooks up a float/ charger.


With the pickup tube going from the top of tank downward, does the sloshing around cause any problems with it ? Maybe if you feel kind, you could snap a pic or two of this supply tube...pictures man, pictures !!!!:laughing:

Will this set up have an in cab controller to control different functions ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lynden-Jeff;1582385 said:


> They are more powerful then that! We figure we can make a 3500 gal batch in 2 hours with a mini-ex feeding the mixing tank. How do you clean sediment out of these style tanks, just tip them over?


Your filling your water thru a 2" hose right?

I usually just rinse / wash them out with a hose. Hop in if necessary and scrape it up.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1582434 said:


> Your filling your water thru a 2" hose right?
> 
> I usually just rinse / wash them out with a hose. Hop in if necessary and scrape it up.


Yea, we get a load of water in our 3500 gallon tank, empty out 500 gallons for the calcium and use a pump the force the water through the salt at about 150/gal a minute. The second pump sucks out of the bottom mixing tank and deposits it back in to the storage tank. We can fill the mixing tank almost as fast as the mini ex will go and only have to stop every now and then to let the level go down, though for the first 6000lbs it almost dissolves on contact with the tank. So far a great system!


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

leigh;1581074 said:


> How about a design brainstorming session! I've got a poly 55 gal drum that I've been meaning to use to spray the bulk salt as it comes out of my under-taigate salter. Pump? line size,fittings,how many tips, what style, spray volume,do i need a valve,.Not sure at what rate salt comes out at.I'm going to turn it on without spinner and have it dump into a bucket and then weigh it.How much per ton for differant liquids,ie lcc,salt brine with lcc.Will pump self prime quickly? parts list and source would be nice  Drum will be mounted right behind cab in the dump bed.Bed is 11' long. Not a good pic,this was after I found out that the place that rebuilt my spinner motor wired it internally to rotate wrong way! Maybe someone can come to my shop and just build it for me!





MF 5455;1582391 said:


> *With the pickup tube going from the top of tank downward, does the sloshing around cause any problems with it ? * Maybe if you feel kind, you could snap a pic or two of this supply tube...pictures man, pictures !!!!:laughing:
> 
> Will this set up have an in cab controller to control different functions ?


Our Old RTV Sprayer has a "pickup tube" Going from the top, the hose was actually a thicker hose with a strainer at the bottom.I think we got it from TSC. When the liquid gets low you can tell because you're spraying a Combination of AIR and a little liquid..


----------



## MF 5455

Lynden-Jeff;1582445 said:


> Yea, we get a load of water in our 3500 gallon tank, empty out 500 gallons for the calcium and use a pump the force the water through the salt at about 150/gal a minute. The second pump sucks out of the bottom mixing tank and deposits it back in to the storage tank. We can fill the mixing tank almost as fast as the mini ex will go and only have to stop every now and then to let the level go down, though for the first 6000lbs it almost dissolves on contact with the tank. So far a great system!


Can you post pictures of your brine tank in operation, please ???

How do you know how much salt your putting in mixing tank with mini to get exact strength ???

How do you keep from getting debris mixed in with your bulk salt using the mini ???

At what time during this hurry up and get it done process do you use your hydrometer ???

Is your supply water at 60 deg constantly ???


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

MF 5455;1582502 said:


> Can you post pictures of your brine tank in operation, please ???
> 
> *See below*
> 
> How do you know how much salt your putting in mixing tank with mini to get exact strength ???
> 
> *When I fill the dump trailer from our stock pile I have a pretty good idea when I hit the 8000 lb mark which is the nessesary amount for max saturation of 3500 gallons (2.3 lbs/gal)*
> 
> How do you keep from getting debris mixed in with your bulk salt using the mini ???
> 
> *The salts scooped from a dump trailer thats clean to begin with. *
> 
> At what time during this hurry up and get it done process do you use your hydrometer ???
> 
> *Once we get to the last few buckets or when dissolving slows we take a sample and warm it up to test. Its usually always 21-22% by the time we test.*
> 
> Is your supply water at 60 deg constantly ???


*Water is delivered and then immediatly mixed so I would say its no warmer then 45 and as cold as 35. No need for warm water to mix, it dissolves anyway. *

Here are some pics.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

thats actually pretty ingenious.... right now we are doing one batch at a time then pumping into the storage time...takes forever... I have access to a minii skid so I might just try doing it this way at some point


----------



## MF 5455

Lynden-Jeff;1582519 said:


> *Water is delivered and then immediatly mixed so I would say its no warmer then 45 and as cold as 35. No need for warm water to mix, it dissolves anyway. *
> 
> Here are some pics.


Thank you for the info...nice pics. Good luck.

Nice to know there are others trying to be independent and do our own thing.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Done.....

























Drove to Iowa to Dultmeier's to pick up the remainder of parts today, 120 miles each way, then finished it up tonight. Will deliver tomorrow, on Friday. Well I guess it's already technically Friday.


----------



## pabaker66

Kubota 8540;1582820 said:


> Done.....
> 
> View attachment 122865
> 
> 
> View attachment 122866
> 
> 
> View attachment 122867
> 
> 
> Drove to Iowa to Dultmeier's to pick up the remainder of parts today, 120 miles each way, then finished it up tonight. Will deliver tomorrow, on Friday. Well I guess it's already technically Friday.


WOW Kubota you are a machine!!!! What are the specs on those electric pumps?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1582820 said:


> Done.....
> 
> View attachment 122865
> 
> 
> View attachment 122866
> 
> 
> View attachment 122867
> 
> 
> Drove to Iowa to Dultmeier's to pick up the remainder of parts today, 120 miles each way, then finished it up tonight. Will deliver tomorrow, on Friday. Well I guess it's already technically Friday.


Looks good. Nice and neat. Have you tested it yet ? Wondering how much pressure the pumps supply at the tips.

Question...is it important that the water we use for our brine mix be at 60 deg...either during the mix or after, to ensure the proper saturation, percent etc ? Every article I have read about brine making, always states the readings should be taken at this temp. unless of the course the instrument we use to check brine is of a different calibration. How exactly do you test yours ? Is the water at 60 deg ? I make a batch here quite quickly, but I make sure my water or brine is at this temp. before I actually test it. I don't want to take any chances of it being "off", and create an ice rink. Just wondering.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Water temp only has to do with checking it... The hydrometer is calibrated at 60... Water gets more dense as it gets colder ( atoms start to slow down ... Eventually stopping =ice...) so as the water gets colder you will get abnormal readings so you have to use the conversion chart...


----------



## Kubota 8540

I posted a correction chart probably 10 pages back in this thread. But basically.......

Water 60F Salimeter 23% = No Correction Needed is 23% 
Water 50F Salimeter 23% = Correction reading is 22%
Water 40F Salimeter 23% = Correction reading is 21%

That is why I make brine in the fall and then again in early spring before its fit to work on other projects. It's just easier if you are making brine outside.

No need to use 60F + temp water to make brine. If your water is above 60F then correction to reading also need to be made.

I'm not going to snort or inject this brine, I'm just going to spray it on a parking lot. Close is close enough for me.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1582918 said:


> Looks good. Nice and neat. Have you tested it yet ? Wondering how much pressure the pumps supply at the tips.
> 
> Question...is it important that the water we use for our brine mix be at 60 deg...either during the mix or after, to ensure the proper saturation, percent etc ? Every article I have read about brine making, always states the readings should be taken at this temp. unless of the course the instrument we use to check brine is of a different calibration. How exactly do you test yours ? Is the water at 60 deg ? I make a batch here quite quickly, but I make sure my water or brine is at this temp. before I actually test it. I don't want to take any chances of it being "off", and create an ice rink. Just wondering.


Test? Don't need no stinking test. Mine always work. Did all the wiring last night after midnight including the harness and switches for the cab. They'll be fine.

I'll post pics of pumps after while. I'll check pressure just before nozzle when I fill with brine after it's delivered.

COLD here this morning, having attitude trouble getting going this morning. +1F

Pretty hard to be off that much and make ice.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I think Lynden-Jeff has it about right. That little brinemaker can make about 1,600 gallons per hour IF you can supply it with enough water and enough salt.

But generally no one, including me has a hose to fill with water that fast nor the capability to feed the salt that fast. But I have made 800 gallons per hour once. Better to over design and over deliver than to under perform and under deliver. So I say 400 gallons per hour. 

Its like the mile per gallon sticker on the vehicles thing. It says it gets ?? highway and ?? city but NOT.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

I guess im having a real hard time understanding this oversaturation ( say 26% brine solution) creating a higher freezing point... back when i did bulk rock salt I would spread way more than what i am currently using brin for ( easily creating a very strong brine mix on the ground) yet it always burned off.. anyone have any good lit on this ? 

does it cause the solution to become oversaturated which in turn causes all the dissolved salt to fall out of solution?


----------



## GSS LLC

Kubota, i hope your "y" "e" and "s" buttons didnt get worn out replying in my other thread. lmfao! 

but i was visualizing brine being the "cheap alternative" to LCC. and that lcc would out perform brine by a large margin. but now it has become clear to me. I can spread 4 times the amount of stuff that works 70% as good as lcc and costs 60% less and have 280% more melting power for the same or less money. thats improvement. and i get to build something else, a brinemaker!


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1582938 said:


> I posted a correction chart probably 10 pages back in this thread. But basically.......
> 
> Water 60F Salimeter 23% = No Correction Needed is 23%
> Water 50F Salimeter 23% = Correction reading is 22%
> Water 40F Salimeter 23% = Correction reading is 21%
> 
> That is why I make brine in the fall and then again in early spring before its fit to work on other projects. It's just easier if you are making brine outside.
> 
> No need to use 60F + temp water to make brine. If your water is above 60F then correction to reading also need to be made.
> 
> I'm not going to snort or inject this brine, I'm just going to spray it on a parking lot. Close is close enough for me.


Ok. Just checking...gotta keep you honest. :laughing:

Where I live, the well water is 52 deg. So 8 deg difference in water temperature between what's recommended on the gauge as 60 deg is really not going to affect my brine strength very much. Perhaps 1% or so ????


----------



## terrapro

GSS LLC;1582989 said:


> Kubota, i hope your "y" "e" and "s" buttons didnt get worn out replying in my other thread. lmfao!
> 
> but i was visualizing brine being the "cheap alternative" to LCC. and that lcc would out perform brine by a large margin. but now it has become clear to me. I can spread 4 times the amount of stuff that works 70% as good as lcc and costs 60% less and have 280% more melting power for the same or less money. thats improvement. and i get to build something else, a brinemaker!


Technically LCC is only 5-9% more potent right? The benefit of LCC is the low freezing point.


----------



## GSS LLC

ok, so that further solidifies my thinking, a lot more brine put down for the same money will work a lot better. a LOT better.


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Kubota 8540;1582967 said:


> I think Lynden-Jeff has it about right. That little brinemaker can make about 1,600 gallons per hour IF you can supply it with enough water and enough salt.
> 
> But generally no one, including me has a hose to fill with water that fast nor the capability to feed the salt that fast. But I have made 800 gallons per hour once. Better to over design and over deliver than to under perform and under deliver. So I say 400 gallons per hour.
> 
> Its like the mile per gallon sticker on the vehicles thing. It says it gets ?? highway and ?? city but NOT.


Yep in most situations 400 gal is a reasonable number. We just have the ability to push it to the max with two pumps and a massive storage tank. We buy water, about $150 for 4000 gallons. No access to wells with that much extra capacity!


----------



## Kubota 8540

NorthernSvc's;1582970 said:


> I guess im having a real hard time understanding this oversaturation ( say 26% brine solution) creating a higher freezing point... back when i did bulk rock salt I would spread way more than what i am currently using brin for ( easily creating a very strong brine mix on the ground) yet it always burned off.. anyone have any good lit on this ? It is the weird science part of it all.
> 
> does it cause the solution to become oversaturated which in turn causes all the dissolved salt to fall out of solution?


YES



GSS LLC;1582989 said:


> Kubota, i hope your "y" "e" and "s" buttons didnt get worn out replying in my other thread. lmfao! YES they are. :laughing:
> 
> but i was visualizing brine being the "cheap alternative" to LCC. and that lcc would out perform brine by a large margin. but now it has become clear to me. I can spread 4 times the amount of stuff that works 70% as good as lcc and costs 60% less and have 280% more melting power for the same or less money. thats improvement. and i get to build something else, a brinemaker!


 YES you do. :laughing:

90/10 for the last couple of years cost me about .17 cents per gallon. Thats a 400 gallon batch and adding 40 gallons of LCC. 90/10, just gives the salt brine a little kick and keeps the cost down too. @ 100 gallons per acre = $17.00 / acre
That price is with salt @ $80/ton and LCC @ .65 cents per gallon, I think.


----------



## Kubota 8540

pabaker66;1582821 said:


> WOW Kubota you are a machine!!!! What are the specs on those electric pumps?


70 mile one way delivery after a 2 day build-a-thon. But delivered and installed ready to spray.


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## Kubota 8540

Pic of the pick up siphon tube inside the tank, extends to about 1/2" off the bottom, doesn't flop around like flexible tubing.









Installed it on this little Chinese sidewalk truck, 5' plow, strobes, heat, and electric sprayer and 3 batteries, 2 on sprayer plus hooked it up to the truck battery also









Then while I was there, I installed a Turbo Turf spray boom to a Lesco diaphragm sprayer with a TeeJet 3 way valve and wiring to cab of truck. Kind of pieced it all together from what he had laying around.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Very nice! aI wish i could find a Cheap Mini truck like that! 

May I ask What you use for control boxes? Anything fancy?


----------



## Kubota 8540

BigBoyPlowin;1583417 said:


> Very nice! aI wish i could find a Cheap Mini truck like that!
> 
> May I ask What you use for control boxes? Anything fancy?


Nothing fancy, I like simple. Just single pole heavy duty hard wired switches to run the electric pumps.

I'm still looking for a heavy duty wireless control that doesn't cost an arm and leg.

His little truck can spray a 5' sidewalk


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Very nice! 
Do you ever take the "inserts" out of the boomless nozzles you use? I'm currently debating on it.


----------



## Kubota 8540

BigBoyPlowin;1588833 said:


> Very nice!
> Do you ever take the "inserts" out of the boomless nozzles you use? I'm currently debating on it.


No, I have never tried it. I did so on the SJ-3 triple tips by accident, but does seem to increase the flow without effecting their performance.


----------



## DodgeBlizzard

Kubota, if you mix a batch real strong , can you just add water to bring it ''back down'' to the proper mix? Example: If you have a 1,000 gallon tank you're feeding your mix into. You have a busy day ahead Can you...instead of throwing one bucket full of salt into your brine maker, can you fill it up and leave the site.....obviously it will be stronger then needed. Can you then add water to the 1,000 gallon tank and mix the water with the strong batch to get it to the proper reading?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Yes, I have done so with small batches. But I did shortly after I originally mixed it too strong. I would be careful doing so and leaving it set for a long period of time seeing how 26.5% mix will freeze @32 F?


----------



## snowish10

Is liquid magnesium chloride hurt concert or anything else in anyway???


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

snowish10;1592001 said:


> Is liquid magnesium chloride hurt concert or anything else in anyway???


Not too good for grass.. but then again not too many deicers are..
We tried a 2500 gallon sample from a company quite a few years ago and what do you know, they mixed the batch wrong. We had a Below 0* F weekend and the product was like a SLURPEE from 7-11! They didnt have enough calcium in it apparently. Lets just say i was turned off before i even paid for the load.

Anyways,I read Purdue did a study on this on their major highway, they say its more detrimental to the metal braces in the highway than the actual concrete. I think if any salt is hungry enough, it will eat it!


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1589343 said:


> Yes, I have done so with small batches. But I did shortly after I originally mixed it too strong. I would be careful doing so and leaving it set for a long period of time seeing how 26.5% mix will freeze @32 F?


Hey Kubota...

Going to attach a picture of how one of my parking lots look after it had snowed and was cleaned up. I sprayed brine prior to the storm


----------



## MF 5455

MF 5455;1593386 said:


> Hey Kubota...
> 
> Going to attach a picture of how one of my parking lots look after it had snowed and was cleaned up. I sprayed brine prior to the storm


This particular occasion was with temps in the teens. By time store opened at 8 am the parking lot was 90% melted off. I had used a 90/10 mixture, and sprayed approx. 80 gallon to the acre ??? I now have my sprayer adjusted quite nicely. I can travel right at 6 mph with tractor, and put down a nice full spray. This is anti icing...not just a wet spot here and there, but the entire asphalt is wet when I finish. It suremakes cleaning up so much easier.

We had quite a storm here. Close to 16" on Friday, all day, night and into Sat. It was like a blizzard. Temp stayed around 12 deg., and north east winds at 25-30 mph. I had sprayed prior to the storm, and bragging just a little, my parking lots were the first to melt off.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1593400 said:


> This particular occasion was with temps in the teens. By time store opened at 8 am the parking lot was 90% melted off. I had used a 90/10 mixture, and sprayed approx. 80 gallon to the acre ??? I now have my sprayer adjusted quite nicely. I can travel right at 6 mph with tractor, and put down a nice full spray. This is anti icing...not just a wet spot here and there, but the entire asphalt is wet when I finish. It suremakes cleaning up so much easier.
> 
> We had quite a storm here. Close to 16" on Friday, all day, night and into Sat. It was like a blizzard. Temp stayed around 12 deg., and north east winds at 25-30 mph. I had sprayed prior to the storm, and bragging just a little, my parking lots were the first to melt off.


I like the way it gives you a head start. I guess I spray about 80-100 gpa whether anti or de-icing. I'm impatient. No snow here, frost is gone I think. 40F+? Looks and feels like winter is over.


----------



## Northeastsnow

When we were first researching liquid spayers we found the cost to be outrageous so we tryed building one our selves, took 275 gallon shipping crate tote and a cheap water pump. WORKS GREAT still using to this day, actual run 3 of these now.... built all 3 for under 500 bucks we are new ones actually have remote control ball valve to stop flow... first one operator had to open valve and run back to truck... those spots that he opened it still do not get snow or ice......................LOL


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1593578 said:


> I like the way it gives you a head start. I guess I spray about 80-100 gpa whether anti or de-icing. I'm impatient. No snow here, frost is gone I think. 40F+? Looks and feels like winter is over.


Wow... maybe you will get some from blizzard coming across the mid west. For your sake I hope it happens. Makes winter long and boring without snow. Most of the time too wet and cold to do anything constructive outdoors...too warm sitting by the fire all day.


----------



## terrapro

GSS LLC;1583064 said:


> ok, so that further solidifies my thinking, a lot more brine put down for the same money will work a lot better. a LOT better.


Yes.

I gave up making my brinemaker for the time being. To cold here in mid-Michigan and my spray truck rusted out the trans mount so my fabricator has been working on building a new one. It will be a summer fall project now.


----------



## robtown

http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.851.857.4050/7628
Would this make a good pump for a spray boom. It may be overkill but it will go neutral when the line is shut so i would cut back on recirculating valve.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1593889 said:


> Wow... maybe you will get some from blizzard coming across the mid west. For your sake I hope it happens. Makes winter long and boring without snow. Most of the time too wet and cold to do anything constructive outdoors...too warm sitting by the fire all day.


Not BORING, I have been honey doing. Painted the HALLWAY today, yippee!


----------



## Kubota 8540

robtown;1594511 said:


> http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.851.857.4050/7628
> Would this make a good pump for a spray boom. It may be overkill but it will go neutral when the line is shut so i would cut back on recirculating valve.


As well as I remember it is very low pressure so I really couldn't say for sure. But I looked at it a few times myself, but to much money for trial and error projects.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1593386 said:


> Hey Kubota...
> 
> Going to attach a picture of how one of my parking lots look after it had snowed and was cleaned up. I sprayed brine prior to the storm


Been so long........what's that white stuff on the pavement?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1594582 said:


> Been so long........what's that white stuff on the pavement?


Haha... Perhaps 1/16" of snow that was left after lot was cleared. The temps were in the teens when this pic was taken, and within 45 min., 90% was melted off. I even think there will be less wear on the skid plates on pusher blade because of less friction due to the snow being very silky/mushy ??? I was talking with another contractor friend of mine yesterday, and he wants me to spray a few of his lots for him.

Any suggestions on how to charge for this ??? Hourly ? So much per gallon ?

If I do start with these services, than I will definitely require a larger volume tank etc., etc.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1594713 said:


> Haha... Perhaps 1/16" of snow that was left after lot was cleared. The temps were in the teens when this pic was taken, and within 45 min., 90% was melted off. I even think there will be less wear on the skid plates on pusher blade because of less friction due to the snow being very silky/mushy ??? I was talking with another contractor friend of mine yesterday, and he wants me to spray a few of his lots for him.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to charge for this ??? Hourly ? So much per gallon ?
> 
> If I do start with these services, than I will definitely require a larger volume tank etc., etc.


I would charge the same as I do for spreading salt.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1594724 said:


> I would charge the same as I do for spreading salt.


What you think of this idea...

Add little bit more into price of spraying, because now the revenue is down from the spring clean up of the left over sand. Ex. $250.00 for salting/sanding ea time for particular lot, spring clean up with skid loader and power broom is approx. $600.00 for same lot. So instead of charging $250.00 for each spray, maybe $275.00 to recoup the lost money from the clean up ???? Just throwing out some ideas....payup


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1594972 said:


> What you think of this idea...
> 
> Add little bit more into price of spraying, because now the revenue is down from the spring clean up of the left over sand. Ex. $250.00 for salting/sanding ea time for particular lot, spring clean up with skid loader and power broom is approx. $600.00 for same lot. So instead of charging $250.00 for each spray, maybe $275.00 to recoup the lost money from the clean up ???? Just throwing out some ideas....payup


Very true. As long as you can show the benefit of the spraying.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1595234 said:


> Very true. As long as you can show the benefit of the spraying.


Question Mr. Kubota....

Will magnesium chloride have same results as calcium chloride ??? Is $17 for 50 lb bag seem expensive ? Duhhhh !!! It's all too expensive I know, but my choices here are limited, and today at TSC in state of New York they have the mag.

Calcium chloride here is $35 for a 40kg bag. (88 lb.) That's simply a no brainer on my part.

Hope you finished all the painting for your honey, and it's done correctly....don't wanna sleep in the dog house. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1595338 said:


> Question Mr. Kubota....
> 
> Will magnesium chloride have same results as calcium chloride ??? Is $17 for 50 lb bag seem expensive ? Duhhhh !!! It's all too expensive I know, but my choices here are limited, and today at TSC in state of New York they have the mag.
> 
> Calcium chloride here is $35 for a 40kg bag. (88 lb.) That's simply a no brainer on my part.
> 
> Hope you finished all the painting for your honey, and it's done correctly....don't wanna sleep in the dog house. :laughing:


I'm not sure on the pricing, I don't use bag products. Have never used mag chloride liquid or bag. I'm no help on that I guess.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1595234 said:


> Very true. As long as you can show the benefit of the spraying.


I have a question regarding the hydraulic driven pump...

I believe you built a system for a municipality or others and used this.

Does the speed of the vehicle change the flow, and pressure, or is there an adjustment made so regardless of speed, the system remains constant ?

I believe the systems power originates at the transmission whether manual or automatic ?

Would you know of a link, or have sketch of how this translates from tranny back to the pump system. I believe if I were to use my dump truck for example, removed the dump box, etc.,etc., I could run pump from same hydraulics which raise the dump box. Speed of engine changes how slow or quick the bed is lifted, so how would this be overcome in order to spray ?

On my tractor sprayer, if the engine is revved up too much, the sprayer pump will kick out because it is set for maximum flow of oil...I think 7 gpm, and the tractor will produce 26 gpm. So I have it set right now where the rpms are at 1100-1200 on tractor, and pump operates quite well If I change gears for some reason, and rpms bounce around, pump can or does shut off periodically.


----------



## MF 5455

Attached is couple pictures of how my sprayer works for anti icing...

I can now travel at any speed, and still spray brine. I figured out the hydraulic adjustments that needed to be done in order for the system to work correctly. I also added extra nozzles on boom ends for sidewalks. Made a huge difference. I use approx. 200 gallons for 2-1/2 to 3 acres. Seems to be working well for me.

Any suggestions, comments or questions I will gladly reply.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1598389 said:


> Attached is couple pictures of how my sprayer works for anti icing...
> 
> I can now travel at any speed, and still spray brine. I figured out the hydraulic adjustments that needed to be done in order for the system to work correctly. I also added extra nozzles on boom ends for sidewalks. Made a huge difference. I use approx. 200 gallons for 2-1/2 to 3 acres. Seems to be working well for me.
> 
> Any suggestions, comments or questions I will gladly reply.


SUGGESTION:: Keep the little flask in your vest pocket more and those sprayer lines will be straighter :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1595754 said:


> I have a question regarding the hydraulic driven pump...
> 
> I believe you built a system for a municipality or others and used this.Yes
> 
> Does the speed of the vehicle change the flow, and pressure, or is there an adjustment made so regardless of speed, the system remains constant ? Seems to, somewhat
> 
> I believe the systems power originates at the transmission whether manual or automatic ?Yes and sometimes from a pump mounted on the front of the crankshaft (PTO)
> 
> Would you know of a link, or have sketch of how this translates from tranny back to the pump system. I believe if I were to use my dump truck for example, removed the dump box, etc.,etc., I could run pump from same hydraulics which raise the dump box. Speed of engine changes how slow or quick the bed is lifted, so how would this be overcome in order to spray ? Nope, no link. Yes, I think you could use those hydraulic lines. Not sure other than the adjustment on the pump or maybe a flow regulator?
> 
> On my tractor sprayer, if the engine is revved up too much, the sprayer pump will kick out because it is set for maximum flow of oil...I think 7 gpm, and the tractor will produce 26 gpm. So I have it set right now where the rpms are at 1100-1200 on tractor, and pump operates quite well If I change gears for some reason, and rpms bounce around, pump can or does shut off periodically.


 Driver error.

Hope that helped but probably not.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Just had to try posting from this Dell inspiron 8000 laptop w/ windows 2000 that the letters on the keyboard are mostly worn off. 800 mhz processor? This baby zooooooms! I think this setup could fully handle turning all 3 sprayer valves on AND off..

I was afraid to click advanced, didnt know if it could handle it. Only took 10 seconds to get from the quick reply to the advanced post page. Zoomin........:laughing:


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Kubota 8540;1598773 said:


> Just had to try posting from this Dell inspiron 8000 laptop w/ windows 2000 that the letters on the keyboard are mostly worn off. 800 mhz processor? This baby zooooooms! I think this setup could fully handle turning all 3 sprayer valves on AND off..
> 
> I was afraid to click advanced, didnt know if it could handle it. Only took 10 seconds to get from the quick reply to the advanced post page. Zoomin........:laughing:


Love my Macbook Pro! Weighs 3 times less that your dell! :laughing: 
Kubota you're pretty quiet... Must be building something FANCY!


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## Kubota 8540

BigBoyPlowin;1603178 said:


> Love my Macbook Pro! Weighs 3 times less that your dell! :laughing:
> Kubota you're pretty quiet... Must be building something FANCY!


I'm thinking of using that Dell Laptop as ballast. :laughing: Just something old someone gave me and said didn't work no more. Messed with it a little and jumped on the internet.

Oh yeah, remodeling the Kitchen. No SNOW. Honey do, Honey doooooooooo


----------



## White Gardens

MF 5455;1598389 said:


> Attached is couple pictures of how my sprayer works for anti icing...
> 
> I can now travel at any speed, and still spray brine. I figured out the hydraulic adjustments that needed to be done in order for the system to work correctly. I also added extra nozzles on boom ends for sidewalks. Made a huge difference. I use approx. 200 gallons for 2-1/2 to 3 acres. Seems to be working well for me.
> 
> Any suggestions, comments or questions I will gladly reply.


I was thinking that you could use the same type of valve used for Salt spreaders with the dial, then you could just change your pump out-put setting with the dial.

Then set your by-pass for the pump so that if you get too much flow it will by-pass the solution into the tank.

Or, another option would be to use the speed control computer valves that adjust hydraulic flow directly off of the forward speed. I know they make those for salt spreaders, I'm sure you could make it work for a hydraulic pump.

I'm contemplating hooking my pre-wetting tank I purchase with a hydraulic pump in line with my auger. This way the fluid flow could change with the amount of salt that is being applied, but I need to figure if I would loose too much flow and pressure where the system wouldn't work properly.

.............


----------



## MF 5455

White Gardens;1603232 said:


> I was thinking that you could use the same type of valve used for Salt spreaders with the dial, then you could just change your pump out-put setting with the dial.
> 
> Then set your by-pass for the pump so that if you get too much flow it will by-pass the solution into the tank.
> 
> Or, another option would be to use the speed control computer valves that adjust hydraulic flow directly off of the forward speed. I know they make those for salt spreaders, I'm sure you could make it work for a hydraulic pump.
> 
> I'm contemplating hooking my pre-wetting tank I purchase with a hydraulic pump in line with my auger. This way the fluid flow could change with the amount of salt that is being applied, but I need to figure if I would loose too much flow and pressure where the system wouldn't work properly.
> 
> .............


Thanks for input. I just recently figured out my hydraulic system, (i think). I will post pic later, but on rear of tractor there are 2 sets of auxiliary remotes. I plugged lines from pump motor into one set and than the other, and was quite confused because I wasn't having the results I needed to operate sprayer. Too much throttle, (over 1200 rpm) and pump would kick out. I called dealer where I bought my tractor, and they told me to put bungee cord around lever and hold it in place....:laughing:

I didn't go that route, still playing with it along. I reread manual for sprayer and manual for tractor hydraulic ports. I realized for the one set of ports there is actually a knob mounted on the valve body where the hoses connect. I changed the hoses over to that port. I turned the adjuster all the way off, and than gradually opened it slowly...this is after I engaged the hydraulics from inside the cab. I could hear the motor start to turn, and some agitation in sprayer tank was evident. My sprayer pump motor will take up to 9 gallon/min flow, and tractor will produce 17-18 gallon/min. After additional adjustments on pump motor and control on tractor I can now operate sprayer at any speed or range of gear. I find most comfortable is around 6 mph while spraying. As you can see in posted pics., I think I have a pretty good spray patter now, and can vary speed and flow as needed.

It sure doesn't take very long to empty that 200 gallon tank. I installed the 4th solenoid on sprayer so that the triple jets can be on their own, while the fans can also be independent. On either end I have nozzles for sidewalks or extended reach while spraying my lots. The boom folded down is 12 feet, and with both end nozzles spraying while anti icing, I can comfortably cover 18-20'. Not a mechanic, but after a while with enough thinking we figure things out.

On your thoughts about blending hydraulic oil to both pump and auger, I think it's doable. Maybe branch off main hydraulic line or header into 2 sets of equal size hose....ex. you run 3/4" main water line in your home, and than branch off with 1/2" to sink, shower, etc...I'm wondering if the same principle would apply for this ? If you do this, let us know how it turns out.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1603215 said:


> I'm thinking of using that Dell Laptop as ballast. :laughing: Just something old someone gave me and said didn't work no more. Messed with it a little and jumped on the internet.
> 
> Oh yeah, remodeling the Kitchen. No SNOW. Honey do, Honey doooooooooo


Hey... hurry up and get that kitchen finished, we all want to come over for some homemade chili and fresh corn bread. :laughing:

Been a real challenge with the ice we had here. It snowed yesterday during day about 3 ". Temp was up to 39, so it was WET. By time people were going home from work, temps were falling into mid 20's. Now it is frozen solid and very icy !!! Couldn't plow it off, so burned it off this morning and today with 90/10 brine. Sprayed best part of 800 gallons today on my lots. By mid afternoon, most were all bare, and drying. Some stubborn areas remain, and with temps falling down to 10 tonight they may be there tomorrow....:laughing:

I really enjoy the sprayer, and making necessary changes to better the situation. I haven't used any sand/salt mix since I started spraying....probably should have today, but really wanted to find out if I could clean up the ice with the liquids. Makes me want to get my next system started with v-box and pre-wetting etc.


----------



## White Gardens

MF 5455;1603325 said:


> On your thoughts about blending hydraulic oil to both pump and auger, I think it's doable. Maybe branch off main hydraulic line or header into 2 sets of equal size hose....ex. you run 3/4" main water line in your home, and than branch off with 1/2" to sink, shower, etc...I'm wondering if the same principle would apply for this ? If you do this, let us know how it turns out.


As of this point it's getting shelved, again, for the rest of this season. There has only been two occasions this year where liquid would have been suitable, otherwise it was freezing rain or wet snow on our first two light systems.

We've only had about 4" of our average of almost 20" this season. I'm ready for winter.

You can also use a PTO driven hydro pump. I remember one being on our old 6 row air flow IH planter years ago. The PTO pump would drive the blower fan on the planter. If you can get the hydro valves on the tractor to work though, your probably better off.










......................


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1603345 said:


> Hey... hurry up and get that kitchen finished, we all want to come over for some homemade chili and fresh corn bread. :laughing:
> 
> Been a real challenge with the ice we had here. It snowed yesterday during day about 3 ". Temp was up to 39, so it was WET. By time people were going home from work, temps were falling into mid 20's. Now it is frozen solid and very icy !!! Couldn't plow it off, so burned it off this morning and today with 90/10 brine. Sprayed best part of 800 gallons today on my lots. By mid afternoon, most were all bare, and drying. Some stubborn areas remain, and with temps falling down to 10 tonight they may be there tomorrow....:laughing:
> 
> I really enjoy the sprayer, and making necessary changes to better the situation. I haven't used any sand/salt mix since I started spraying....probably should have today, but really wanted to find out if I could clean up the ice with the liquids. Makes me want to get my next system started with v-box and pre-wetting etc.


Sorry, we had chili and corn bread last week. Ravs and broth this week. Both were excellent. She usually makes big batches then we just heat and eat for a few days, I love it.

Bring the truck & equipment down this spring and I'll set it up for you. Just a short ride.  :laughing:


----------



## terrapro

Thinking I might take the tank out of the 1ton, sorry guys I might go back to just rock. The lake effect we have had the last 2 years is abnormal for mid-MI and I need the holding ability of rock/bulk. If this is going to be the norm I will have to concede to rock...for now.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1603516 said:


> Sorry, we had chili and corn bread last week. Ravs and broth this week. Both were excellent. She usually makes big batches then we just heat and eat for a few days, I love it.
> 
> Bring the truck & equipment down this spring and I'll set it up for you. Just a short ride.  :laughing:


Yes sir, those left overs seem to taste better after couple days, especially the soups/chili/stew.

Haha.. you forgot one important point when you said about bringing truck down to be equipped for next years spraying/salting ????? I know you innocently...payup forgot to mention how much bank roll it would cost me. :laughing:

I seem to have notion that several contractors/snow removal people try the liquids and than revert back to the solids/aggregates. Do you have an opinion on why this happens ?

I see the highway / municipalities continue to use the liquids after several years of service.

I have a friend in Pennsylvania who started using well brine several years ago.(it was free than). I talked with him this winter, and he went back to solids. Said he had poor results, and was time consuming. He had gravity flow out back of truck, and never ever checked the concentration to see and know freezing point of brine. Is there something I'm missing ??? Are your plans to stay with liquid brine, or do you think of going back also ???


----------



## MF 5455

terrapro;1603536 said:


> Thinking I might take the tank out of the 1ton, sorry guys I might go back to just rock. The lake effect we have had the last 2 years is abnormal for mid-MI and I need the holding ability of rock/bulk. If this is going to be the norm I will have to concede to rock...for now.


Ok ??? Sorry to hear about your decision on switching back to rock salt. Is it only because of the temperatures when it snows, or is there something I'm missing out on ? Please explain exactly why you feel this way....:laughing:

This is my first year of spraying, and have just nicely figured out my sprayer for good results. Now I just need to figure out when to spray, or when to spread the aggregates...we get quite a bit of freezing rain here also, 5 minutes from Lake Ontario. It is the drastic fluctuation in temp that has me confused. Today it might be 39, and overnight drop to 7 deg like yesterday. I really feel that brine is less expensive than using rock salt dry, and definitely a whole lot less messy than salt/sand mix. I really think in our weather here, that pre wetting rock salt, or spraying first, and than spreading a light coat of the rock salt over the areas would be good also.

Just looking for opinions and wondering what's on the other contractors minds.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1603871 said:


> Yes sir, those left overs seem to taste better after couple days, especially the soups/chili/stew.Yes, the second reheat is where the real tasty starts
> 
> Haha.. you forgot one important point when you said about bringing truck down to be equipped for next years spraying/salting ????? I know you innocently...payup forgot to mention how much bank roll it would cost me. :laughing: I see you caught that
> 
> I seem to have notion that several contractors/snow removal people try the liquids and than revert back to the solids/aggregates. Do you have an opinion on why this happens ? They seem to not know what they are doing, maybe simply old school with no real desire to try new, or possibly been over promised as to the liquids abilities. But yes I have noticed that to some extent also.
> 
> I see the highway / municipalities continue to use the liquids after several years of service. Illinois fell into the over priced complicated equipment trap and was sold EXPENSIVE liquids that under delivered. But some areas are now back to using salt brine for anti-icing.
> 
> I have a friend in Pennsylvania who started using well brine several years ago.(it was free than). I talked with him this winter, and he went back to solids. Said he had poor results, and was time consuming. He had gravity flow out back of truck, and never ever checked the concentration to see and know freezing point of brine. Is there something I'm missing ??? Are your plans to stay with liquid brine, or do you think of going back also ???


Gravity flow just is slower and less even than a measured pressurized system (pump).

If you first learn how to make some cheap effective liquid and somewhat understand it's properties, then I think you have a better understanding as to how to use it.

I still use both, my route also has gravel surfaces and liquids just don't seem to work very well on gravel.

My next sprayer build, will be for myself. I have an awesome design in mind. I think it's going to be my finest to date. Also the most expensive to date. $3,500 in parts.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1603536 said:


> Thinking I might take the tank out of the 1ton, sorry guys I might go back to just rock. The lake effect we have had the last 2 years is abnormal for mid-MI and I need the holding ability of rock/bulk. If this is going to be the norm I will have to concede to rock...for now.


Warm wetter events, rock salt works better.

Dryer colder events, liquids work cheaper.

Why not set it up on a platform and simply switch between spreader or sprayer when need be.? Thats what I do. My sprayer wiring plugs into my spreader wiring hook up. All quich attach trailer style plugs.


----------



## terrapro

About once a week we seem to get a day storm. If I put liquids down it would only melt off that snow plus alittle more and the lot starts covering over again. Rock can burn of inches during the day and I don't want to app 3 times when I only needed to once. We had one day storm a couple weeks ago that we kept getting lake effect then the sun would come out then lake effect then sun etc, one app in the morning burnt off 4.7" of snow.

I will of course have the sprayer around and yes it would be about that easy to reinstall if bulk went up towards $100 per ton.

I am going to pick up a snowex 1075 in about 2 minutes, was looking for a vbox but was offered this 1075 with mount, wiring, and controller for $150 and I couldn't pass it up.


----------



## MF 5455

terrapro;1603936 said:


> About once a week we seem to get a day storm. If I put liquids down it would only melt off that snow plus alittle more and the lot starts covering over again. Rock can burn of inches during the day and I don't want to app 3 times when I only needed to once. We had one day storm a couple weeks ago that we kept getting lake effect then the sun would come out then lake effect then sun etc, one app in the morning burnt off 4.7" of snow.
> 
> I will of course have the sprayer around and yes it would be about that easy to reinstall if bulk went up towards $100 per ton.
> 
> I am going to pick up a snowex 1075 in about 2 minutes, was looking for a vbox but was offered this 1075 with mount, wiring, and controller for $150 and I couldn't pass it up.


I'm only guessing here....you feel the liquids dilute much faster than the rock salt ????
Are you sure to obtain the exact saturation of your brine to achieve the maximum results ???

I suppose the rock would last longer because it is dry (drier), but the liquid covers a larger area in terms of how it's applied.. I would love to conversate with someone who has been using the brine for several years, who has tested the abilities of it, and could point us in the direction needed. I really feel that most people have the mind set that brine is the next best thing since bubble gum. Through my research so far...it is just SALT in a liquified form. How long would it have taken rock salt for me to break through the frozen snow and ice yesterday ? I had applied brine prior to the storm, which aided in the quicker thawing, and the sidewalks that I didn't do were much harder to clean up than the ones I had pre treated. Sand is a good alternative for traction, and it looks like something has been done...all true, but, it has nor thawing capabilities. Salt cannot be seen on white snow very well, so we all would have a tendency to spread more than what's needed perhaps because we are impatient to wait for the melting process.

For now, I am sticking with the liquids, and plan ahead to build the combination set up where I have the dry in the v box, spread dry or wet, and also have my boom so I can just spray. For this, one truck will do. 500-600 gallon tank / motors / pumps / etc. /, v box with pre wet system. 88 lb. bags of #4 sifto salt is costing me $5 / bag. Water is free...comes from my sump pump in basement...400 gallons in 30 mins. $50.00 to make 400 gallons of brine. I am spraying 200 gallons on 2-1/2-3 acre lot. That is $20.00 for brine, plus, let's say...$25-30.00 for fuel for tractor. (exaggerating). So, in the ball park of $45-50.00 to do this lot. Aggregates here are $90.00 to fill my v box...2 yds. Yes, there is more time perhaps in making and storing and pumping the brine, but for me, I look at it as new and improved, (highways have been using it for years), and look forward to offering this to my customers as less maintenance and cleaning, both in their facilities, and parking areas. IDK...just talking. :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1603899 said:


> Gravity flow just is slower and less even than a measured pressurized system (pump).
> 
> If you first learn how to make some cheap effective liquid and somewhat understand it's properties, then I think you have a better understanding as to how to use it.
> 
> I still use both, my route also has gravel surfaces and liquids just don't seem to work very well on gravel.
> 
> My next sprayer build, will be for myself. I have an awesome design in mind. I think it's going to be my finest to date. Also the most expensive to date. $3,500 in parts.


I understand about the gravel driveways. Salt only advances the freezing and thawing on those, and can create a muddy mess come warmer weather. I usually use limestone chips for those gravel lots. Limestone here is very inexpensive...we live in limestone capital of the world.

You forgot to update me on cost of putting together a professional spray system for my truck....:laughing:


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

MF 5455;1604167 said:


> I'm only guessing here....you feel the liquids dilute much faster than the rock salt ????
> Are you sure to obtain the exact saturation of your brine to achieve the maximum results ???
> 
> I suppose the rock would last longer because it is dry (drier), but the liquid covers a larger area in terms of how it's applied.. I would love to conversate with someone who has been using the brine for several years, who has tested the abilities of it, and could point us in the direction needed. I really feel that most people have the mind set that brine is the next best thing since bubble gum. Through my research so far...it is just SALT in a liquified form. How long would it have taken rock salt for me to break through the frozen snow and ice yesterday ? I had applied brine prior to the storm, which aided in the quicker thawing, and the sidewalks that I didn't do were much harder to clean up than the ones I had pre treated. Sand is a good alternative for traction, and it looks like something has been done...all true, but, it has nor thawing capabilities. Salt cannot be seen on white snow very well, so we all would have a tendency to spread more than what's needed perhaps because we are impatient to wait for the melting process.
> 
> For now, I am sticking with the liquids, and plan ahead to build the combination set up where I have the dry in the v box, spread dry or wet, and also have my boom so I can just spray. For this, one truck will do. 500-600 gallon tank / motors / pumps / etc. /, v box with pre wet system. 88 lb. bags of #4 sifto salt is costing me $5 / bag. Water is free...comes from my sump pump in basement...400 gallons in 30 mins. $50.00 to make 400 gallons of brine. I am spraying 200 gallons on 2-1/2-3 acre lot. That is $20.00 for brine, plus, let's say...$25-30.00 for fuel for tractor. (exaggerating). So, in the ball park of $45-50.00 to do this lot. Aggregates here are $90.00 to fill my v box...2 yds. Yes, there is more time perhaps in making and storing and pumping the brine, but for me, I look at it as new and improved, (highways have been using it for years), and look forward to offering this to my customers as less maintenance and cleaning, both in their facilities, and parking areas. IDK...just talking. :laughing:


I agree we will be reevaluating our deicing tactics next year. 
We neglected to buy another rock salt truck this year as we only used rock maybe 3 times last year when liquid didn't work due to high compaction. The truck we had was giving us problems therefore we got rid of it. We have never kicked ourselves so hard! LIQUID DOES NOT HOLD like rock does. Zero tolerance accounts are the ones that make it look so bad..With Lake effect you mise well just be ready to go out a few times. Yes rock has its flaws too but we will be using less liquid next year and more rock. Most likely a combination/ prewet system.

I haven't run numbers yet, but im pretty sure the price is almost equal when we have to come out and spray 3 times compared to what would be one maybe 1.5 application(s) of rock would of been.


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## terrapro

See BigBoyPlowin knows what I am talking about! These last two years the lake effect is just killer.

But I have a new idea. Why not both? If I get a smaller tank then my 325gal I can have bulk in one side and liquid on the other, best of both worlds all the time on one truck!

Now does anyone know of like a 200gal tank that would only take up like half of my bed including the pump?

And by the way I stole that spreader. Kid said it was seized up. I got it home took it apart and had it going in less then an hour. Now I just have to go to my buddies metal shop to fab up a mount for the back of my dump.


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## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1604485 said:


> See BigBoyPlowin knows what I am talking about! These last two years the lake effect is just killer.
> 
> But I have a new idea. Why not both? If I get a smaller tank then my 325gal I can have bulk in one side and liquid on the other, best of both worlds all the time on one truck!
> 
> Now does anyone know of like a 200gal tank that would only take up like half of my bed including the pump?
> 
> And by the way I stole that spreader. Kid said it was seized up. I got it home took it apart and had it going in less then an hour. Now I just have to go to my buddies metal shop to fab up a mount for the back of my dump.


How about this? http://www.tank-depot.com/productdetails.aspx?part=A-SP0200-RT









Capacity: 200 Gallons
Size: 48"L x 36"W x 34"H


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## Kubota 8540

BigBoyPlowin;1604320 said:


> I agree we will be reevaluating our deicing tactics next year.
> We neglected to buy another rock salt truck this year as we only used rock maybe 3 times last year when liquid didn't work due to high compaction. The truck we had was giving us problems therefore we got rid of it. We have never kicked ourselves so hard! LIQUID DOES NOT HOLD like rock does. Zero tolerance accounts are the ones that make it look so bad..With Lake effect you mise well just be ready to go out a few times. Yes rock has its flaws too but we will be using less liquid next year and more rock. Most likely a combination/ prewet system.
> 
> I haven't run numbers yet, but im pretty sure the price is almost equal when we have to come out and spray 3 times compared to what would be one maybe 1.5 application(s) of rock would of been.


I think your absolutely right. Liquid doesn't keep up or last as long as rock salt. What it does best is anti-icing, takes care of the small nuisance 1/2-1" snows and post plowing. For what it does best, it also does least expensive. I have never believed it is a do-all and forget rock salt. It is another option to have available for when conditions allow it's use. I have seen times when I'm out spraying that the liquid was great but at certain points of the same lot, rock salt was needed. The thought of having all on one truck is where it's at, without any doubts.


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## terrapro

That is about perfect. Now if they werent almost $300 shipped?!

I am really liking this idea right now, very excited to have the best of both worlds avaiable on one truck.


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## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1604531 said:


> That is about perfect. Now if they werent almost $300 shipped?!
> 
> I am really liking this idea right now, very excited to have the best of both worlds avaiable on one truck.


Shipping is terrible and I can't seem to ever find what I need locally. I drive to Dultmeier quite often but even that is 120 miles each way for me. $60 for fuel


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## Kubota 8540

I have held onto an older 1 ton Chevy just for this all-on-one set up. My 6' v box w/ 1 ton salt and 200 gallons liquid with gas powered pump and electric pump to be able to spray at the spinner. It would be the first time I was setup under the legal limit. :laughing:


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Kubota 8540;1604567 said:


> I have held onto an older 1 ton Chevy just for this all-on-one set up. My 6' v box w/ 1 ton salt and 200 gallons liquid with gas powered pump and electric pump to be able to spray at the spinner. It would be the first time I was setup under the legal limit. :laughing:


I'm actually thinking about building this setup next year... Found several 230 gallon tanks semi-locally over priced but got me thinking about this. I shouldnt be over weight if I get a one-ton isuzu, have my tank and pump in the front of the bed with a divider leaving the rest of the bed open for bulk rock salt... The tank is only about 3x4 with legs so it really doesnt take up too much space... 
Isuzu has the best carrying capacity weight wise but only comes in 2WD :realmad:

Sadly if i decided to do this setup it would have to be an electric pump as i'm not too fond of jumping in the dump bed to start, throttle up and down a pump!


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1604567 said:


> I have held onto an older 1 ton Chevy just for this all-on-one set up. My 6' v box w/ 1 ton salt and 200 gallons liquid with gas powered pump and electric pump to be able to spray at the spinner. It would be the first time I was setup under the legal limit. :laughing:


Legal limits, huh ?

You don't read manuals....:laughing:, so how do you know what is illegal ????

Just kidding.

I think also the all in one is a good choice. Bad weather comes along, there are now 3 choices to choose from. I would like to keep the costs down on this build, so as much good used materials I can find will help out. I know plumbing, etc., has to be of good quality, but older truck, used tank perhaps, etc.


----------



## MF 5455

BigBoyPlowin;1604874 said:


> I'm actually thinking about building this setup next year... Found several 230 gallon tanks semi-locally over priced but got me thinking about this. I shouldnt be over weight if I get a one-ton isuzu, have my tank and pump in the front of the bed with a divider leaving the rest of the bed open for bulk rock salt... The tank is only about 3x4 with legs so it really doesnt take up too much space...
> Isuzu has the best carrying capacity weight wise but only comes in 2WD :realmad:
> 
> Sadly if i decided to do this setup it would have to be an electric pump as i'm not too fond of jumping in the dump bed to start, throttle up and down a pump!


I was looking at a 2006 Ford LCF...(low cab forward), similar to Isuzu. The GVW on it is 19,500. I figure with 8' v box, 500 gallons of brine, plumbing, pumps, truck weight, and myself, I will be right at the weight limit. I'm not sure a one ton will be heavy enough for you, unless of course, you don't mind refilling your tank often.

Don't know about there, but here, the traffic safety people are always checking weights of these pickups running around with salt spreaders in them. They get away with it at 2 in the morning, but daylight hours it's a bit risky. Just make sure you are safe with your weights...Thumbs Up


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## MF 5455

Posted is picture of truck I am really interested in buying. 2006 with 16' flatbed. Perfect setup for all in one system.


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## terrapro

A local buddy of mine who is on here on plowsite just told me tonight he will get me all the totes I want for free. He has a carwash so he has a supply. Guess I will just go that route and pickup a few for mixing brine too.

Can't wait to get this together. Might not be till next season before I get to see the full results but I am very content with everything.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1604890 said:


> Legal limits, huh ?
> 
> You don't read manuals....:laughing:, so how do you know what is illegal ????
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> I think also the all in one is a good choice. Bad weather comes along, there are now 3 choices to choose from. I would like to keep the costs down on this build, so as much good used materials I can find will help out. I know plumbing, etc., has to be of good quality, but older truck, used tank perhaps, etc.


Yes legal......heavy as he_ _ but has air bags so it's not noticeable :laughing:

Illegal ...heavy as he_ _ but looks like it. :laughing:

Manuals are for quitters.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1604899 said:


> I was looking at a 2006 Ford LCF...(low cab forward), similar to Isuzu. The GVW on it is 19,500. I figure with 8' v box, 500 gallons of brine, plumbing, pumps, truck weight, and myself, I will be right at the weight limit. I'm not sure a one ton will be heavy enough for you, unless of course, you don't mind refilling your tank often.
> 
> Don't know about there, but here, the traffic safety people are always checking weights of these pickups running around with salt spreaders in them. They get away with it at 2 in the morning, but daylight hours it's a bit risky. Just make sure you are safe with your weights...Thumbs Up


All my customers are now within a 2 mile area from home base. Except I have one that is 9 miles from home base, too good not to do. 
I have an easy way to reload at my place so not a problem. I'm wanting to put a new bulk tank in with a larger pump which would make it even easier, and get away from the totes for storage. My current setup is a 20 gpm electric 1" pump. Hook up the hose, flip the switch and wait 10 minutes. I would like to install a 60-90 gpm pump, 1" -1.5" hose and 2,500 gallon bulk tank inside my salt shed, also a place for a new brinemaker.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1605131 said:


> All my customers are now within a 2 mile area from home base. Except I have one that is 9 miles from home base, too good not to do.
> I have an easy way to reload at my place so not a problem. I'm wanting to put a new bulk tank in with a larger pump which would make it even easier, and get away from the totes for storage. My current setup is a 20 gpm electric 1" pump. Hook up the hose, flip the switch and wait 10 minutes. I would like to install a 60-90 gpm pump, 1" -1.5" hose and 2,500 gallon bulk tank inside my salt shed, also a place for a new brinemaker.


Yes sir...the 2500 gallon tstorage tank is a good idea. Like to have one of those also.

Posting a few pics of spray pattern, nozzles etc. As you may be able to see in photo, with main boom spraying, both boomless on as well, I am able to spray at least 3 parking spaces in width....approx. 25-26'.


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## MF 5455

Here is a photo of port with oil volume control on rear of tractor located on auxiliary hydraulics. I finally made a few adjustments here which remedied the problems with pump shutting off. Yes, I did read the MANUAL....Kubota. :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Hello to my friends on plow site...

I know a few of you are contemplating perhaps the notion of returning to rock salt as your primary source of ice / snow melt. This choice of course is yours entirely, and I would never interrupt your decisions. However, some food for thought....

In some of my postings from this week, I touched on the weather conditions here in my area, and the results I am having from the sodium brine. (90/10 mix). The latest posting on this subject had to do with the most recent storm we had which was wet snow...(+2 celcius, 36 fah), and that it snowed during the day when traffic is abundant. The temps fell drastically in the evening to (-15 celcius,12 fah) and froze the already slick surfaces solid. I had sprayed prior to the storm, and again after people and cars had vacated the areas.. The sidewalks were the most challenging part for me.

I met up with an acquaintance today who has a large landscaping,snow removal business.
His company does approx. $ 3 million in snow removal alone. The conversation headed off into the ice situation we encountered with latest storm. He asked me if I had sprayed a certain parking lot prior to the storm, and asked a few questions. He also buys, uses, and sells a product called Geo-Melt, which I would have been interested in, but not at $2.70 gallon. :realmad:

He made a comment that when he went past this parking lot I tender, he noticed it was already partially melted off, and when he returned on same route, it was totally clean. They spray also, but....from what I have seen, they maybe use 20 gallons on a parking lot. This may be an exaggeration either way, but their boom has 4 single stream nozzles and it is applied with very little pressure, almost appears gravity fed.

He told me that they salted, sanded their lots 3x that night. He opened extra bags of salt to mix with the sand salt mixture and spread it. Between the 3x spreading, he had 3 loaders and 3 TLBs with normal gravel buckets trying to scrape off the ice. So, in essence, most of the night was spent spreading, scraping and re applying.

I felt quite relieved, I guess you would say, because I felt that the liquids I sprayed had been diluted to the point of losing their thawing abilities. When I heard his story, it boosted my attention to become even more involved with the liquids, ( and also the v box setup for pre wetting ).

Another scenario...weather people forecasted couple inches for our area last night and today. I sprayed last night,(only one out because the sky was still clear ), and felt like maybe I was being a bit premature.... but this morning early we received snow, ( inch or so ), and my lots were bare when I went to check the status.

I for one desire to further my education on liquids, experiment some more with different tips and nozzles, and let this knowledge I learned from last ice storm benefit my business.

I hope all of you received enough snow this week through mid west and near the lakes to make some payup, and use that brine. !!!!

Let us know how it works for you, and the results compared to others who are not spraying.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

MF 5455;1606268 said:


> Hello to my friends on plow site...
> 
> I know a few of you are contemplating perhaps the notion of returning to rock salt as your primary source of ice / snow melt. This choice of course is yours entirely, and I would never interrupt your decisions. However, some food for thought....
> 
> In some of my postings from this week, I touched on the weather conditions here in my area, and the results I am having from the sodium brine. (90/10 mix). The latest posting on this subject had to do with the most recent storm we had which was wet snow...(+2 celcius, 36 fah), and that it snowed during the day when traffic is abundant. The temps fell drastically in the evening to (-15 celcius,12 fah) and froze the already slick surfaces solid. I had sprayed prior to the storm, and again after people and cars had vacated the areas.. The sidewalks were the most challenging part for me.
> 
> I met up with an acquaintance today who has a large landscaping,snow removal business.
> His company does approx. $ 3 million in snow removal alone. The conversation headed off into the ice situation we encountered with latest storm. He asked me if I had sprayed a certain parking lot prior to the storm, and asked a few questions. He also buys, uses, and sells a product called Geo-Melt, which I would have been interested in, but not at $2.70 gallon. :realmad:
> 
> He made a comment that when he went past this parking lot I tender, he noticed it was already partially melted off, and when he returned on same route, it was totally clean. They spray also, but....from what I have seen, they maybe use 20 gallons on a parking lot. This may be an exaggeration either way, but their boom has 4 single stream nozzles and it is applied with very little pressure, almost appears gravity fed.
> 
> He told me that they salted, sanded their lots 3x that night. He opened extra bags of salt to mix with the sand salt mixture and spread it. Between the 3x spreading, he had 3 loaders and 3 TLBs with normal gravel buckets trying to scrape off the ice. So, in essence, most of the night was spent spreading, scraping and re applying.
> 
> I felt quite relieved, I guess you would say, because I felt that the liquids I sprayed had been diluted to the point of losing their thawing abilities. When I heard his story, it boosted my attention to become even more involved with the liquids, ( and also the v box setup for pre wetting ).
> 
> Another scenario...weather people forecasted couple inches for our area last night and today. I sprayed last night,(only one out because the sky was still clear ), and felt like maybe I was being a bit premature.... but this morning early we received snow, ( inch or so ), and my lots were bare when I went to check the status.
> 
> I for one desire to further my education on liquids, experiment some more with different tips and nozzles, and let this knowledge I learned from last ice storm benefit my business.
> 
> I hope all of you received enough snow this week through mid west and near the lakes to make some payup, and use that brine. !!!!
> 
> Let us know how it works for you, and the results compared to others who are not spraying.


I understand what you're saying because it actually happened to us the other night.. We plowed everything then let the sun "ReActivate" the lots.. Most lots who used rock salt had to be reapplied due to refreeze. Thankfully my lots (where we sprayed heavily the past few storms) stayed wet all night into the morning.

So liquid does have its advantages.. Therefore i'm not going to sell all of my stuff, Im just going to downsize it to the point where we can do both, If need-be. It pretreats really well too!


----------



## terrapro

Wish I could post a new pic of my setup on my 1ton now with the 850lb tailgate rock spreader and the liquid unit....it's going to be king now that the price of bulk has gone up and is suppose to go up more.

How do I post the pics from my phone to plowsite?


----------



## MF 5455

terrapro;1608712 said:


> Wish I could post a new pic of my setup on my 1ton now with the 850lb tailgate rock spreader and the liquid unit....it's going to be king now that the price of bulk has gone up and is suppose to go up more.
> 
> How do I post the pics from my phone to plowsite?


This is how I do it, but I'm a bit unlearned also. I send it to my laptop either to my email or a folder. Than I go to that folder and download it to plowsite. Maybe a long way around, but it works.

Anxious to see your pics. Good luck on your system.. What is price of bulk now ?, and what is reason for price increase ? We pay $100.00 per metric tonne here, which is approx. 2,200 lbs.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1608712 said:


> Wish I could post a new pic of my setup on my 1ton now with the 850lb tailgate rock spreader and the liquid unit....it's going to be king now that the price of bulk has gone up and is suppose to go up more.
> 
> How do I post the pics from my phone to plowsite?


What phone do you have? If you have the data package just email it to your computer. If not then you need a cable to attach your phone to your computer to transfer your pics.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

MF 5455;1608956 said:


> This is how I do it, but I'm a bit unlearned also. I send it to my laptop either to my email or a folder. Than I go to that folder and download it to plowsite. Maybe a long way around, but it works.
> 
> Anxious to see your pics. Good luck on your system.. What is price of bulk now ?, and what is reason for price increase ? We pay $100.00 per metric tonne here, which is approx. 2,200 lbs.


For me its about $62-67 per ton depending on where you go..
$100 + bucks a ton is what made us switch to liquid! That and the fact that a few local dealers were using favoritism to discriminate on who gets how much salt..


----------



## GSS LLC

Im just waiting to have the cash to build the brine making setup. i have about a grand into the sprayer. and cannot make the money i want to make spraying straight LCC. so im holding tight untill this summer when i can afford to build a brine system and take my time learning that process. then next year it is awn! Spraying .20/gal liquid twice as heavy as .90/gal liquid will yield much better results and i wont have to be so reserved spraying it.


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## terrapro

My PC took a dump so no go on that. I can send one of you pic and you can post if you want.

It worked awesome by the way. My supplier just filed the corner of his bucket to dump it in the hopper and I was loaded with 800-900lbs bulk then 100gal LCC! It was great.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1610912 said:


> My PC took a dump so no go on that. I can send one of you pic and you can post if you want.
> 
> It worked awesome by the way. My supplier just filed the corner of his bucket to dump it in the hopper and I was loaded with 800-900lbs bulk then 100gal LCC! It was great.


Sent you my email address in PM


----------



## GSS LLC

heres kubotas email address for anyone that needs to send him pics to host

[email protected]


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## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1610975 said:


> heres kubotas email address for anyone that needs to send him pics to host
> 
> [email protected]


Hey stop that......my inbox is now flooded with new emails. :laughing::laughing:


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## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1610912 said:


> My PC took a dump so no go on that. I can send one of you pic and you can post if you want.
> 
> It worked awesome by the way. My supplier just filed the corner of his bucket to dump it in the hopper and I was loaded with 800-900lbs bulk then 100gal LCC! It was great.











Pic from Terrapro's Combo setup


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## Kubota 8540

Have a computer in the shop now. Wonder how much work I'll get done now?


----------



## terrapro

Thanks!
I am switching that big 325gal tank out for something in the 200gal range to open up more room in back for bulk storage...I guess I did already say that didn't I...

Well that and brine mixer this summer are to be done and ready to go for next season.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1611615 said:


> Have a computer in the shop now. Wonder how much work I'll get done now?


Yea, yea, we know why you have computer in garage...wanna get away from those honey-dooo jobs. :laughing:

I have a small problem, still a problem though... with my triple jet nozzle bodies. Tractor sits out, and if we have any snow overnight, the top of body where diaphragm is will collect moisture and freeze. If I exhale warm air on each one, it usually will start working. Any cure for this problem ?

Below are some pics of parking lot. A before and after shot of how the brine is working for me.


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## MF 5455

MF 5455;1612204 said:


> Yea, yea, we know why you have computer in garage...wanna get away from those honey-dooo jobs. :laughing:
> 
> I have a small problem, still a problem though... with my triple jet nozzle bodies. Tractor sits out, and if we have any snow overnight, the top of body where diaphragm is will collect moisture and freeze. If I exhale warm air on each one, it usually will start working. Any cure for this problem ?
> 
> Below are some pics of parking lot. A before and after shot of how the brine is working for me.


These pictures were taken 20 min later after initial photo. Last picture was one hour later, with parking lot and sidewalks completely melted.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1612208 said:


> These pictures were taken 20 min later after initial photo. Last picture was one hour later, with parking lot and sidewalks completely melted.



















Nice pics. Maybe a different style of nozzle body with the diaphragm on the side?

Well it is nice to look up diagrams and info on the web when building things but I have only used it to post to Plowsite so far.:laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1612208 said:


> These pictures were taken 20 min later after initial photo. Last picture was one hour later, with parking lot and sidewalks completely melted.


Very comparable to my results. However I'm slightly more impatient and I spray 100 gallons per acre and have more melt at 10-15 minutes and clear in 30 minutes. Plus I have decreased my overall salt usage by approx 65-70%. Perhaps a little more work to mix up a batch, but I'm making money even when it's not snowing?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Went to my shop the other night and built a 100" spray boom, start to finish in 1 hour & 30 minutes. Talk about everything going right for a change.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1612222 said:


> Nice pics. Maybe a different style of nozzle body with the diaphragm on the side?
> 
> Well it is nice to look up diagrams and info on the web when building things but I have only used it to post to Plowsite so far.:laughing:


Yes sir. I forgot to mention when I posted pictures, that I used a full sprayer, (200 gallons) this morning on this particular lot. So far, it has been a very positive choice for me....thanks to you and plow site forum.

Perhaps I will try different nozzle bodies. I like the looks of the side mounted diaphragm type. It wouldn't attract the moisture as easily as top mounted ones. Next year, I guess. Spring will be here soon now. Anxious to get started on my other flat bed sprayer / v-box project.

If you spend too much time in garage, the coffee and donuts will go to waste next to your lazy boy in the living room....:laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1612254 said:


> Yes sir. I forgot to mention when I posted pictures, that I used a full sprayer, (200 gallons) this morning on this particular lot. So far, it has been a very positive choice for me....thanks to you and plow site forum.
> 
> Perhaps I will try different nozzle bodies. I like the looks of the side mounted diaphragm type. It wouldn't attract the moisture as easily as top mounted ones. Next year, I guess. Spring will be here soon now. Anxious to get started on my other flat bed sprayer / v-box project.
> 
> If you spend too much time in garage, the coffee and donuts will go to waste next to your lazy boy in the living room....:laughing:


I gave up the donuts, too fattening, now Cheetos and coffee.  But now that you mention it, maybe I will move the easy chair to the garage. Then I will have the best of both worlds.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Far nicer to build these de-icing sprayer setups in the summer than in the winter. I much rather test them out with water than I do brine. Sometimes a lot less messier too.


----------



## Fourbycb

What was your Timeline from start Appling to finish Melted


----------



## MF 5455

Fourbycb;1612359 said:


> What was your Timeline from start Appling to finish Melted


I started spraying at or near 7:15 a.m., (too late I know, but it was Saturday), and as you will notice in pictures, cars start arriving for the opening of store at 8. By 8:30 ish, it was completely melted, save a few corners where I didn't apply. Once again, my parking lots were the first to be wet and clear...thanks to the liquid sodium. I find from 15 deg above to 32 deg., this works the quickest of anything I have used. I am logging every time I spray, temps., conditions and amount used. Curious at the end of season to see how this stands up with the amount of sand/salt I would have used, and of course the cost.

I'm probably a whole lot more liberal in how much I use, because I can spray this particular parking lot for approx. $25.00. (cost of brine).

Are you using brine ?, or what are your thoughts on the liquids ? Please.


----------



## MF 5455

Picture of a smaller place of business we do as well. The front half of this lot is a catch basin for the run off from back behind, so there is almost always a problem with ice here. I applied the liquid brine, and I'm guessing there was at least an inch of ice here. I came back in about 2 hours, and it was all melted off.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1612277 said:


> Far nicer to build these de-icing sprayer setups in the summer than in the winter. I much rather test them out with water than I do brine. Sometimes a lot less messier too.


I agree. At least the testing can be done without freezing your fingers off making all the necessary adjustments.

Question...when I do my all-in-one system, I was planing to fasten all movable items down to truck bed, sorta permanent like. Do you think it would be better to have them fastened to a pallet type structure, and than just sit on bed with straps ? I plan to only use this flat bed for winter use with the system remaining on it.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

MF 5455;1612404 said:


> I
> Question...when I do my all-in-one system, I was planing to fasten all movable items down to truck bed, sorta permanent like. Do you think it would be better to have them fastened to a pallet type structure, and than just sit on bed with straps ? I plan to only use this flat bed for winter use with the system remaining on it.


Isn't the only reason why we have them strapped down opposed to bolted down -- only because we like to utilize our truck beds with other things in the summer?

I guess if you don't plan on using the truck for anything else it wouldnt be a bad idea to bolt it down... Only problems I see would be:


Rust?
Turn-off to potential/ future buyers? (Holes)... kinda like having a plow mount


----------



## MF 5455

BigBoyPlowin;1612432 said:


> Isn't the only reason why we have them strapped down opposed to bolted down -- only because we like to utilize our truck beds with other things in the summer?
> 
> I guess if you don't plan on using the truck for anything else it wouldnt be a bad idea to bolt it down... Only problems I see would be:
> 
> 
> Rust?
> Turn-off to potential/ future buyers? (Holes)... kinda like having a plow mount


I guess you are correct. Just thinking about not having straps everywhere and being in the way. I like a nice clean tidy look, easy to hose down and nice appearance for the business. I may end up using the Freightliner as dual purpose. Remove the dump box for winter, and put a 12' flat bed on it for winter. The cost of trucks is ridiculous, and if a person isn't careful, there could be more expense than needed. I could use my hydraulics in place, and install a control for volume of oil needed. License tag on dump went up 33% this year, and insurance took a 14% hike...OUCH !


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1612539 said:


> I guess you are correct. Just thinking about not having straps everywhere and being in the way. I like a nice clean tidy look, easy to hose down and nice appearance for the business. I may end up using the Freightliner as dual purpose. Remove the dump box for winter, and put a 12' flat bed on it for winter. The cost of trucks is ridiculous, and if a person isn't careful, there could be more expense than needed. I could use my hydraulics in place, and install a control for volume of oil needed. License tag on dump went up 33% this year, and insurance took a 14% hike...OUCH !


Yeah, but at least our wages went up 25%, so thats trivial. :laughing:

If you can keep your cost down by using your existing truck, that would make more sense. I always try to have my equipment earn me money. Not earn money to pay for my equipment.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1612404 said:


> I agree. At least the testing can be done without freezing your fingers off making all the necessary adjustments.
> 
> Question...when I do my all-in-one system, I was planing to fasten all movable items down to truck bed, sorta permanent like. Do you think it would be better to have them fastened to a pallet type structure, and than just sit on bed with straps ? I plan to only use this flat bed for winter use with the system remaining on it.


I like having things mounted to a platform, then bolt it down. If it has to be removed to repair either the truck or the liquid unit its easier to do. Or if the truck dies I can always set it on another truck? I like versatility.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1612559 said:


> I like having things mounted to a platform, then bolt it down. If it has to be removed to repair either the truck or the liquid unit its easier to do. Or if the truck dies I can always set it on another truck? I like versatility.


I understand what you say.

I was looking at the hydraulic drive/poly pump from Dultmeiers today. There doesn't seem to be any specs on the hydraulic motor unit that I could find....like gpm's / min., size of ports etc. I was considering using another like on my tractor sprayer, but the poly one is more affordable. I believe the poly pump generates more flow of liquid than the Ace cast like I have.

If I were to use my Freightliner for running the system, I have the live hydraulic system already there in place. I think I can use it ???? I'm not sure about how speed will affect the oil flow, because rpm change does affect the time in raising the dump box. I guess another learning curve. 

Any thoughts on this ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1613176 said:


> I understand what you say.
> 
> I was looking at the hydraulic drive/poly pump from Dultmeiers today. There doesn't seem to be any specs on the hydraulic motor unit that I could find....like gpm's / min., size of ports etc. I was considering using another like on my tractor sprayer, but the poly one is more affordable. I believe the poly pump generates more flow of liquid than the Ace cast like I have.
> 
> If I were to use my Freightliner for running the system, I have the live hydraulic system already there in place. I think I can use it ???? I'm not sure about how speed will affect the oil flow, because rpm change does affect the time in raising the dump box. I guess another learning curve.
> 
> Any thoughts on this ?


I will look for the specs on that pump. I know they are on 1 of my many computers.

I am not THAT familiar with hydraulics, but with running a certain gear at a certain rpm and a regulator I think most anything should be possible.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Here's the instruction manual.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1613297 said:


> Here's the instruction manual.
> 
> View attachment 124810
> 
> 
> View attachment 124811


Ok. Thank you for the manual....BUT, I don't have cat eyes, I'm over 50, and even with my reading glasses I can't read what it says. :laughing:

Perhaps, just maybe, you could send the link to this manual, or send it directly to my email address. You could go to my website, and send it to my business email, or post it here larger. I know, I know, I'm a pain, but find the kindness, please.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1613912 said:


> Ok. Thank you for the manual....BUT, I don't have cat eyes, I'm over 50, and even with my reading glasses I can't read what it says. :laughing:
> 
> Perhaps, just maybe, you could send the link to this manual, or send it directly to my email address. You could go to my website, and send it to my business email, or post it here larger. I know, I know, I'm a pain, but find the kindness, please.


www.bottomrightdrawerofmydesk/frontfile/pumps .......:laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

Try right clicking on image, save as whatever to your desktop, then reopen with your computer. You should be able to zoom in from there? Or PM your email address and I'll send it to you. That instruction sheet came out of the box with the pump. I couldn't find it anywhere on the internet.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Hey never mind....I'll read your post and send it to your email address. :laughing:


SENT


----------



## turboguy

MF 5455;1613176 said:


> I understand what you say.
> 
> I was looking at the hydraulic drive/poly pump from Dultmeiers today. There doesn't seem to be any specs on the hydraulic motor unit that I could find....like gpm's / min., size of ports etc. I was considering using another like on my tractor sprayer, but the poly one is more affordable. I believe the poly pump generates more flow of liquid than the Ace cast like I have.


The Ace pump will generate more pressure and the poly pump will generate more flow. For instance the Ace 204 pump is 85 GPM and 100 PSI. Ace makes an E-Coated version of their pumps which is the best thing for anti-icing. Chemicals won't have any effect on it.

As far as the hydraulic requirements ACE has a number of models to match different hydraulic systems. They start at 3 GPM and range up to 25. As far as the hydraulic requirements for a poly pump I only have info on Banjo's poly pump and it is designed to run between 6-10 GPM of hydraulic flow. My guess is Pacer would be about the same. Hope that helps.


----------



## Kubota 8540

It's such a pain to need your glasses to find your glasses isn't it?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1613935 said:


> It's such a pain to need your glasses to find your glasses isn't it?


You are absolutely correct. Just wait til your there....you will understand.

Thanks for info on hydraulic motors and pumps to all of you.

Although my choice would be to use the hydraulic system to run the pumps, etc.,I'm afraid my dreams have been dashed to pieces, and I lie crumpled like a piece of waste paper. :laughing:

I spoke with an installer of hydraulic units today, and he advised me that the only way I can run a hydraulic system from truck would be the following...
1. Install a hydraulic pump on front of truck like concrete trucks have, which runs off the engine crank through a pto shaft, etc.,etc. This will cost me approx. $4,000.00. :realmad:
2. Install a belt driven pump mounted by brackets hanging from side of truck motor with magnetic clutch. Approx. $2,000.00. 

Ahhhh, at this point and time I am jumping up and down, screaming like a spoiled kid, yelling into the phone things I can't print here, possibly having a heart attack, and no one cares :laughing:

I think i will just have to go with the gas engine, or have a very long extension cord so i can use an electric pump.

The pump that is mounted on transmission is only suitable for idling speed, or slightly higher. He told me that if I tried to use it going through parking lots or on street, it would fly to pieces. ????????????

That's just not fair !!!


----------



## MF 5455

Haha... Guess I will have to use this setup again next year, and tow my v box behind it on a trailer frame.....:laughing::laughing:

Oh well, it's fun driving this, but a wee bit slow going across the city of 125,000 population. Besides, to make my rounds, I need between 400-500 gallons of brine, A 500 or 700 gallon tank on my truck would be so much more efficient.

....back to the drawing board...whew !


----------



## Kubota 8540

"very long extension cord so i can use an electric pump" THIS one I like.... :laughing: 

I started to figure out the remote setup for throttle, choke, and starter for a horizontal engine but haven't got back to it. Been Honey dooo-ing.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1614260 said:


> Haha... Guess I will have to use this setup again next year, and tow my v box behind it on a trailer frame.....:laughing::laughing:
> 
> Oh well, it's fun driving this, but a wee bit slow going across the city of 125,000 population. Besides, to make my rounds, I need between 400-500 gallons of brine, A 500 or 700 gallon tank on my truck would be so much more efficient.
> 
> ....back to the drawing board...whew !


Can't that Massey carry more than that little ol' 200 gallon tank?


----------



## Kubota 8540

How much fuel does your Massey drink per hour?


----------



## Kubota 8540

I'm not a wizard on hydraulics but I have the steel to make the brackets to mount a pump off your engine pulleys, I have a pump that has about 1 hour of use since new, I have the valve bodies to control the flow to the sprayer motor and have all the hose I need to get it there and back, I just don't have a reservoir. But I could weld one up? And I could have hydraulics on your truck in a week from scratch. The only thing I don't have is the electric clutch. Too bad it's such a long drive.....I love building things and making them work.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1614281 said:


> How much fuel does your Massey drink per hour?


I can sense a bit of "SARCASM" in your voice, my friend !!!

Rear arms can carry about 3500 lbs., but that's a lot of sloshing when plowing. Might push me right through the snow bamk. :laughing:

The Massey is much easier on fuel than a KUBOTA, that's for sure....lol.

I filled it full, 50 gallons, (2 tanks), plowed 12 hours pushing wet, heavy snow almost non stop, and I used 25 gallons , or half of fuel in tanks. What's that ?, around 2 gallon/hour ?

Tractor weighs 10,000lb. plus 900 lbs. calcium in each rear tire, 2000 lbs of brine in sprayer. Pusher blade on front is around 1900 lbs. Approx. 16,000 lbs.

At $4.15/gallon, it cost me $207.00 to fill tractor when empty. So, fuel for a 12 hour jaunt around town cost me $103.00. What ???? I better get second job. payup

It is very comfortable...air ride seat, full suspension cab, great heater, good visibility, and LOTS of pushing power.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1614263 said:


> "very long extension cord so i can use an electric pump" THIS one I like.... :laughing:
> 
> I started to figure out the remote setup for throttle, choke, and starter for a horizontal engine but haven't got back to it. Been Honey dooo-ing.


Soooo, what does Honey have you dooooing now ? New carpets, tile, lights, windows and doors ?


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1614335 said:


> Soooo, what does Honey have you dooooing now ? New carpets, tile, lights, windows and doors ?


If I wasn't sitting here waiting for it to snow, with my thumb up my ......I would be off for Brownsville Texas for a while. We were planning on leaving yesterday until the weather service started predicting a big one, so now I'm sitting and waiting.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1614331 said:


> I can sense a bit of "SARCASM" in your voice, my friend !!!
> 
> Rear arms can carry about 3500 lbs., but that's a lot of sloshing when plowing. Might push me right through the snow bamk. :laughing:
> 
> The Massey is much easier on fuel than a KUBOTA, that's for sure....lol.
> 
> I filled it full, 50 gallons, (2 tanks), plowed 12 hours pushing wet, heavy snow almost non stop, and I used 25 gallons , or half of fuel in tanks. What's that ?, around 2 gallon/hour ?
> 
> Tractor weighs 10,000lb. plus 900 lbs. calcium in each rear tire, 2000 lbs of brine in sprayer. Pusher blade on front is around 1900 lbs. Approx. 16,000 lbs.
> 
> At $4.15/gallon, it cost me $207.00 to fill tractor when empty. So, fuel for a 12 hour jaunt around town cost me $103.00. What ???? I better get second job. payup
> 
> It is very comfortable...air ride seat, full suspension cab, great heater, good visibility, and LOTS of pushing power.


No. No sarcasm other than wondering /comparing against the Kubota. 85 HP and working or running down the road it only would burn 3/4 gallon per hour. The fuel economy was AWESOME. It had the hydraulic assist on the 3 point and could do 7,000 lbs @ 24"? Seat sucked, ride sucked and had to shift too much and the cab wasn't big enough. But I really liked that tractor.

The Bobcat 43hp burns 1.5 per hour.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1614335 said:


> Soooo, what does Honey have you dooooing now ? New carpets, tile, lights, windows and doors ?


Yes. :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1614367 said:


> Yes. :laughing:


I did some research in my tractor manual... and boy was I a long way off on specs.
.

Tractor will pull 28,880 lb.
Max. weight on drawbar (vertical) 3748 lb.
Rear hydraulic linkage: 3" rams will lift 13,014 lbs.

I guess I could put a 500 gallon tank on rear and not hurt tractor . :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1614364 said:


> No. No sarcasm other than wondering /comparing against the Kubota. 85 HP and working or running down the road it only would burn 3/4 gallon per hour. The fuel economy was AWESOME. It had the hydraulic assist on the 3 point and could do 7,000 lbs @ 24"? Seat sucked, ride sucked and had to shift too much and the cab wasn't big enough. But I really liked that tractor.
> 
> The Bobcat 43hp burns 1.5 per hour.


The Bobcats of mine have always been very efficient on fuel. I like the Kubota engines. I have had zero problems with all my Kubota engine equipped machines. My 773 will work all day on half tank...(15 gallons). Always start in winter if glowed properly, and good maintenance done on them. Boy, are filters and oil ever expensive...It costs me around $500.00 to change filters, oil on both Bobcats. $500.00 to do Cat 308 exc. Tractor this year gets axle oil changed, trans filters changed, etc. :crying:

Gotta keep up with them so they work when needed. Sprayer needs maintenance. Pressure wash, clean with fresh water, oil outside of frame etc., to stop any rust, cover and store where it's dry.


----------



## William Brett

*Residual Salt*

Hi Guys we have now had about 3 weeks of dry weather over her an my sites are all white with residual salt from the brine I have been spraying, what do people do in this situation, keep spraying? Reduce rates? Or not Spray?

Cheers in advance

Will


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1614455 said:


> I did some research in my tractor manual... and boy was I a long way off on specs.
> .
> 
> Tractor will pull 28,880 lb.
> Max. weight on drawbar (vertical) 3748 lb.
> Rear hydraulic linkage: 3" rams will lift 13,014 lbs.
> 
> I guess I could put a 500 gallon tank on rear and not hurt tractor . :laughing:


Well I thought that little ol' 200 gallon was kind of small for that other red tractor. If the slosh is a problem, do like some of those Canadians told me to do. Take Big O drainage tubing and stuff it in the tank. So I cut handy size pieces and filled my tank, WOW what a difference, no slosh. 200 gallons x 11 lbs per gallon = 2,200 + 400 lbs for the sprayer = 2,600 pounds. Nope not maxing the Massey by any means. I always go to about half the max rating. SO, I would think you could easily have a 500 gallon tank at about 6,000 pounds? Might suck a little more fuel. But you guys north of the border getting that cheap diesel should be able to afford it. Here we're paying $4.19/gallon. LOL


----------



## Kubota 8540

William Brett;1614574 said:


> Hi Guys we have now had about 3 weeks of dry weather over her an my sites are all white with residual salt from the brine I have been spraying, what do people do in this situation, keep spraying? Reduce rates? Or not Spray?
> 
> Cheers in advance
> 
> Will


If there is no snow, simply stop spraying for a while.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Last storm the Bobcat had to get a ride home on the back of a tow truck. First time I have ever broke down and could not fix on the spot. Got it home in the shop, opened her up to discover the fuel pickup hose inside the fuel tank had broke off right at the top fitting. These skidsteers are handy as he_ _ until they break, the fixing part is a pain in the a_ _. They are the most difficult things to work on. A $5 dollar hose and a $100 ride home. But I guess it could have been worse.


----------



## William Brett

Kubota 8540;1614587 said:


> If there is no snow, simply stop spraying for a while.


Definitely no snow, then start re applying when signs of residual reduce?


----------



## Kubota 8540

William Brett;1614590 said:


> Definitely no snow, then start re applying when signs of residual reduce?


Yes, but only if you are expecting some snow event in the near future. (a day or two)


----------



## William Brett

We are lucky to get snow twice a year over here it's all about keeping the frost and ice away.


----------



## leigh

Kubota 8540;1614588 said:


> Last storm the Bobcat had to get a ride home on the back of a tow truck. First time I have ever broke down and could not fix on the spot. Got it home in the shop, opened her up to discover the fuel pickup hose inside the fuel tank had broke off right at the top fitting. These skidsteers are handy as he_ _ until they break, the fixing part is a pain in the a_ _. They are the most difficult things to work on. A $5 dollar hose and a $100 ride home. But I guess it could have been worse.


Yikes! Same thing just happened to my 773.Finished jobs by filling fuel all the way to top of filler neck.It would run for a half hour before refill! Broke in same place.You think that's a tough fix,I figured while I was replacing pick-up tube I would change fuel level float.Broke plastic float trying to install at impossible angle! If i feel like doing again (85$) I think I'll have to raise engine hyro pump for clearance.Rainy day job,just what I need


----------



## MF 5455

leigh;1614726 said:


> Yikes! Same thing just happened to my 773.Finished jobs by filling fuel all the way to top of filler neck.It would run for a half hour before refill! Broke in same place.You think that's a tough fix,I figured while I was replacing pick-up tube I would change fuel level float.Broke plastic float trying to install at impossible angle! If i feel like doing again (85$) I think I'll have to raise engine hyro pump for clearance.Rainy day job,just what I need


You guys should start being nice to your little Bobcats. Haven't had that problem yet....
Hope never. How many hours are on your skid loaders ? Mine turned 2300 other day. Only thing i have replaced since new in 2000 is the tilt valve. $700.00. Should trade it on newer one, but afraid it might jinx me. :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1614328 said:


> I'm not a wizard on hydraulics but I have the steel to make the brackets to mount a pump off your engine pulleys, I have a pump that has about 1 hour of use since new, I have the valve bodies to control the flow to the sprayer motor and have all the hose I need to get it there and back, I just don't have a reservoir. But I could weld one up? And I could have hydraulics on your truck in a week from scratch. The only thing I don't have is the electric clutch. Too bad it's such a long drive.....I love building things and making them work.


Yes sir... I wish we were closer for that reason. I could eliminate the AC compressor from the truck, and mount the hydraulic pump where it sits, with some changes of course. Would have to check on size of pulley for the proper rpm's ? Guy told me today that you can't overload the clutch type, or the belt will slip on them...mine has the serpentine drive belt.

Not sure at this point which way to go. Front mount unit is out...radiator is lower than crank pulley.

May have to stick with gas, and what a shame, with the hydraulic availability there, just can't quite get it to work.??????????


----------



## leigh

MF 5455;1615144 said:


> You guys should start being nice to your little Bobcats. Haven't had that problem yet....
> Hope never. How many hours are on your skid loaders ? Mine turned 2300 other day. Only thing i have replaced since new in 2000 is the tilt valve. $700.00. Should trade it on newer one, but afraid it might jinx me. :laughing:


Just turned 2000 hrs.Been reliable, I've replaced the main belt,muffler.battery,tires,fixed a few leaks,the seat and safety switch under seat and I think thats about it.


----------



## Kubota 8540

(2) 12 hour days plowing back to back and I am very disappointed. Not 1 single idiot to my light, not 1 drive thru my windrow, not 1 parked on the unplowed side of the lot, not 1 look at me yelling while driving, not 1 single flip me off. WTF? :laughing:

Maybe I need to get new customers, I seem to have all these trained.....well I'm sure I'm going to need 2 new customers, because I plowed two of them with this 6-7" heavy wet snow the same way they paid.....notta. :laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1616188 said:


> (2) 12 hour days plowing back to back and I am very disappointed. Not 1 single idiot to my light, not 1 drive thru my windrow, not 1 parked on the unplowed side of the lot, not 1 look at me yelling while driving, not 1 single flip me off. WTF? :laughing:
> 
> Maybe I need to get new customers, I seem to have all these trained.....well I'm sure I'm going to need 2 new customers, because I plowed two of them with this 6-7" heavy wet snow the same way they paid.....notta. :laughing:


Haha... Everyone was just ticled pink to see you coming through. Get that wet, heavy stuff outta here. :laughing:


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Kubota 8540;1616188 said:


> (2) 12 hour days plowing back to back and I am very disappointed. Not 1 single idiot to my light, not 1 drive thru my windrow, not 1 parked on the unplowed side of the lot, not 1 look at me yelling while driving, not 1 single flip me off. WTF? :laughing:
> 
> Maybe I need to get new customers, I seem to have all these trained.....well I'm sure I'm going to need 2 new customers, because I plowed two of them with this 6-7" heavy wet snow the same way they paid.....notta. :laughing:


:laughing::laughing:
That storm was supposed to hit us up here but decided to go south! THANK Goodness! Our Last storm was that same way, wet and heavy! Everyone B(&%^#@ about the GIANT snow balls at the bottom of their driveway..After we plow the street... They seriously expect us to use a tractor like MF 5455's and blow it into their backyards!


----------



## Kubota 8540

BigBoyPlowin;1616326 said:


> :laughing::laughing:
> That storm was supposed to hit us up here but decided to go south! THANK Goodness! Our Last storm was that same way, wet and heavy! Everyone B(&%^#@ about the GIANT snow balls at the bottom of their driveway..After we plow the street... They seriously expect us to use a tractor like MF 5455's and blow it into their backyards!


Plowed two 12 hour days, finished the second day at 5pm, packed, showered slept for 3 hours and left at 2Am this morning. It was 23 F when we left. Its a beautiful SUNNY and SEVENTY here just north of the Texas state line, in Durant Oklahoma. I have always loved it down here in southern Oklahoma. I would have to trade my snowplow for a horse if I was to stay down here.

A lot of bridge deck and curve Brine spraying all the way thru Missouri and Northeast Oklahoma.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1616835 said:


> Plowed two 12 hour days, finished the second day at 5pm, packed, showered slept for 3 hours and left at 2Am this morning. It was 23 F when we left. Its a beautiful SUNNY and SEVENTY here just north of the Texas state line, in Durant Oklahoma. I have always loved it down here in southern Oklahoma. I would have to trade my snowplow for a horse if I was to stay down here.
> 
> A lot of bridge deck and curve Brine spraying all the way thru Missouri and Northeast Oklahoma.


Wow... don't fall asleep at the wheel. 

At least you got some plowing in before the trip. payup

Have a safe and fun trip, down where the grapefruits, oranges and lemons grow.. If it snows while you're gone, we will make sure all your customers get plowed IN. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

Weather is brutal here just outside Brownsville Texas. Got cold last night. Dropped all the way down to 72F. 83F and sea / gulf breeze today. TOO many idiots with drivers license purchased at the local Kum and Go around here. Thought I had left my amber light on the car thru Texas. Got 37 mpg in my Chev Cobalt. Kind of glad I didn't bring the Silveraado


----------



## Kubota 8540

This weather is tuff to handle. 81F AGAIN today. Got an email for another big brinemaker today for the city project. Feels totally out of place talking about building brinemakers when its so nice outside. But I think I can convert it to make Margaritas. Lol


----------



## Kubota 8540

Left Brownsville area and 94F, 24 hours later home to 34F......WOW


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1623400 said:


> Left Brownsville area and 94F, 24 hours later home to 34F......WOW


Happy to hear you made it home safe...some of us have to spray brine and plow snow. :laughing:

Another wet,heavy, quick moving storm came through last night. Started about 7 p.m., and lasted until 7ish this morning. Maybe 4". I had sprayed my lots prior to storm, and it sure makes a difference in the clean up. We started one lot at 5:30 a.m., had it all done by 7:30. Store opens at 8, and by then it was 85% melted off. Parking lots across street were plowed, but still snow covered. I really believe in it. Will post couple pictures for you.

Couple was before storm, and some after with the lot mostly melted.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1624079 said:


> Happy to hear you made it home safe...some of us have to spray brine and plow snow. :laughing:
> 
> Another wet,heavy, quick moving storm came through last night. Started about 7 p.m., and lasted until 7ish this morning. Maybe 4". I had sprayed my lots prior to storm, and it sure makes a difference in the clean up. We started one lot at 5:30 a.m., had it all done by 7:30. Store opens at 8, and by then it was 85% melted off. Parking lots across street were plowed, but still snow covered. I really believe in it. Will post couple pictures for you.
> 
> Couple was before storm, and some after with the lot mostly melted.


With all that money your saving using the salt brine.....when should I expect my kick-back check....:laughing:

From 94F to 20F + 20 mph winds this morning is a major shock to my system. Spring break was just starting when we were on South Padre island. Hard for an old guy to not notice the bikini clad sweeties just smiling at the old guy.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1624115 said:


> With all that money your saving using the salt brine.....when should I expect my kick-back check....:laughing:
> 
> From 94F to 20F + 20 mph winds this morning is a major shock to my system. Spring break was just starting when we were on South Padre island. Hard for an old guy to not notice the bikini clad sweeties just smiling at the old guy.


Never heard of that kind of check before...lol. 

Whats new in your world ? I will be coming through your part of the country in the next few days...on my way to Columbia, Mo. to bring home a pickup truck I purchased. Than I will be heading to Holland Michigan to pick up a backhoe for a dealer close by here.

Thought maybe you would have my new combo sprayer all finished, and I could swing by and take it home. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1625216 said:


> Never heard of that kind of check before...lol.
> 
> Whats new in your world ? I will be coming through your part of the country in the next few days...on my way to Columbia, Mo. to bring home a pickup truck I purchased. Than I will be heading to Holland Michigan to pick up a backhoe for a dealer close by here.
> 
> Thought maybe you would have my new combo sprayer all finished, and I could swing by and take it home. :laughing:


New? Court case against me got a dismissal. Chicken **** lawyers and representatives didnt show up. Such a waste, I had brought enough cash for bail. :angry:

If you have time give me a hollar and we can meet for coffee or something.

Yes it will be done. I started as soon as I received the check you sent me.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1625245 said:


> New? Court case against me got a dismissal. Chicken **** lawyers and representatives didnt show up. Such a waste, I had brought enough cash for bail. :angry:
> 
> If you have time give me a hollar and we can meet for coffee or something.
> 
> Yes it will be done. I started as soon as I received the check you sent me.


If I come that way, I will be traveling I-80 Thats a long way to holler so you can hear me...:laughing:

Perhaps you can email me some info on where to find you. No promises, but will try. Maybe even a phone #

Trying to slip away from here to take care of some things before winter starts all over...


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1625988 said:


> If I come that way, I will be traveling I-80 Thats a long way to holler so you can hear me...:laughing:
> 
> Perhaps you can email me some info on where to find you. No promises, but will try. Maybe even a phone #
> 
> Trying to slip away from here to take care of some things before winter starts all over...


Not sure when you're heading this way, but I'll be around for another week and half maybe two, then heading back down toward Mexico. Have a place to stay there thats about 3-4 miles from the Mexico border. (aka Hubs of _ell).

Not to far from I-80 just 2 miles south at the 97 mile marker. Yell loud. :waving:

Thats kind of funny, I had to come back for that stupid court thing, thought it was going to snow, but didn't. If its not going to snow, I'll pay up some bills and I'm heading back south.

I'll email Ph # and address.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1625998 said:


> Not sure when you're heading this way, but I'll be around for another week and half maybe two, then heading back down toward Mexico. Have a place to stay there thats about 3-4 miles from the Mexico border. (aka Hubs of _ell).
> 
> Not to far from I-80 just 2 miles south at the 97 mile marker. Yell loud. :waving:
> 
> Thats kind of funny, I had to come back for that stupid court thing, thought it was going to snow, but didn't. If its not going to snow, I'll pay up some bills and I'm heading back south.
> 
> I'll email Ph # and address.


Ok..if this happens, it will be Tues. or Wed. of this coming week. Be looking for your info.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Just finished $400 repair work on each of the RTV sprayers I built 3-4 months ago. I had to dig thru 6" of rock salt to find the pumps? Wiring to the pump pressure switches had melted the pump housing. An extra hot wire had been added to the pump switches? Battery boxes that still had the box lid only had 1/4" of salt brine in the battery box. The ones where the lids were gone had 1/2" salt brine in them. The relay wiring was completely green with corrosion or had completely rotted off. The weather tight junction box had enough salt brine in to short out and melt the electrical box itself. The electrical quick connect was fused solid, and could not be pulled apart. Abused and not taken care of obviously? Almost seems like they are flooding the sprayers when filling or using the brine to melt the snow off the sprayers? 

The question I get is......are the pumps under warranty? Yes, they are. For defect but not abuse or neglect.

I do not like to have to think of ways to make things idiot proof, but here I am again.


----------



## Kubota 8540

The larger of the two sprayers was repaired approx 3 weeks ago, just posting (venting) now. I get a call today. They burned up one of the pumps, Are they under warranty? Well I guess they are not showering the pumps now with salt brine. They are using the sprayers to spray weeds and fertilizer. OK. 

My guess? Probably showering them with different chemicals or exceeding the duty cycle?

I'm starting to think these guys should go back to a gravity feed and a manual valve.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1635677 said:


> The larger of the two sprayers was repaired approx 3 weeks ago, just posting (venting) now. I get a call today. They burned up one of the pumps, Are they under warranty? Well I guess they are not showering the pumps now with salt brine. They are using the sprayers to spray weeds and fertilizer. OK.
> 
> My guess? Probably showering them with different chemicals or exceeding the duty cycle?
> 
> I'm starting to think these guys should go back to a gravity feed and a manual valve.


Haha. Sounds like you are baby sitting kids in school. Most people I come in contact with have very little sense of responsibility when it comes to preventive maintenance. Flip the switch, if it works, ok. Otherwise, it's not mine, I don't care, someone else can worry about it. I know it's frustrating, and time consuming, and you feel responsible since you sold it to them I guess. Good luck. I happened to run across a new 1000 gallon poly storage tank today for $500.00. I think I will buy it. Wanna start preparing for next season now, so it will be finished. Have all my totes full now, but that's not near enough to do me for the winter. If I lived closer to you, I would purchase from your inventory. I figure I sprayed approx. 5,000 gallons, and I started end of December I guess.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Season's going well so far...picked up a few more good sized accounts for snow so we made the decision to get out of liquid after where it left us last year with all the multiple applications due to LES storms. If anyones in the SE Mich area looking for a 1800 Gallon Leg Tank or 550 Gallon Leg Tank Contact me. We're going back to all Rock salt... and MAYBE a small pre-wet system.


----------



## MF 5455

Ahhh...

Sorry to hear you're leaving the salt brine scene.

Can you explain the reason, or I understand if it's confidential. Just curious, because I am expanding my winter business toward the liquid application, and wondering if there are hidden problems I haven't encountered ???

Anyway, how much $$$ are you asking for your tanks (both). I am looking for large storage tanks now, and found some 4,000 gallon uprights, but may be interested in yours too.

I'm actually trying to become a supplier for the city and local townships around us here, and if so, would need the storage volume.

Thank you,


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

MF 5455;1637668 said:


> Ahhh...
> 
> Sorry to hear you're leaving the salt brine scene.
> 
> Can you explain the reason, or I understand if it's confidential. Just curious, because I am expanding my winter business toward the liquid application, and wondering if there are hidden problems I haven't encountered ???
> 
> Anyway, how much $$$ are you asking for your tanks (both). I am looking for large storage tanks now, and found some 4,000 gallon uprights, but may be interested in yours too.
> 
> I'm actually trying to become a supplier for the city and local townships around us here, and if so, would need the storage volume.
> 
> Thank you,


Actually the tanks are in a "pending sale" as of 2hrs ago sorry.. But if this guy falls through i'll let you know. Im only asking 750 for the pair plus the Transfer pump and hoses.

The main concern we encountered last year was the LES (lake effect snow storms) I was sending out crews to respray 2,3,4 times due to recovering or refreezing, whereas guys who used rock went out once and never even lost sleep over wether it's holding or not! Our heavy traffic accounts hated it, because it didn't react fast enough for them if the conditions weren't a 100% fluffy coating.. or It reacted and created a bunch or slush and refroze at night.

Also several of our customers were complaining about it because they couldn't tell if we had been there or not, they too felt it wasn't holding, it didn't melt compacted snow at all really...We were to the point where we had to give credits to a few just to keep the account this spring.

In addition to that we had a remote site that was supposed to be open 24 hrs for liquid and they were NOT! So we were ready to salt but couldn't unless we come back to our reserve tanks. (Whereas rock is available everywhere.)

Meanwhile we only had one salt truck because we had planned on going 100% liquid! But instead this truck was keeping us above water! I will say the Rock and Liquid worked GREAT together but its not really ideal if you have it on two separate trucks.

I hate to bash liquid because it did surprise me many times when the sun came out and all the liquid residual reactivated and cleared my accounts or the fact that it doesn't stain (white residue) like rock does... Or works almost instantaneously on light fluffy snow events. Part of the problem could of been our boom setups too but it is what it is now!

Long story short, Liquid has its pros and cons just as anything else. But also has its places where is works well and not so well. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up


----------



## mriderleon

*Looking for a truck mounted brine sprayer*

I've been plowing snow for about 5 years now, but it hasn't snowed much here in Northern Virginia. The money for a brine sprayer looks pretty good and it goes out more often than plow trucks.

Specs: Minimum 1200-1950 gal Anti-icing Chemical Tank, Spray bar with optional multi-lane spray capability. The unit needs to be designed so that the flow is regulated by an internally mounted cab control module. The system shall automatically adjust fluid flow rates based on vehicle speed. It also needs to be calibratable for different application rates ranging from 18 to 100 gallons per lane mile.

The specs change a bit from year to year, so I'd like to get a 1500 gallon tank. Looking at new units, it appears that the asking price on one of these is around $12,000.

Just looking for some advice and sources.

Thank you. 
Leon.


----------



## Kubota 8540

mriderleon;1640695 said:


> I've been plowing snow for about 5 years now, but it hasn't snowed much here in Northern Virginia. The money for a brine sprayer looks pretty good and it goes out more often than plow trucks.
> 
> Specs: Minimum 1200-1950 gal Anti-icing Chemical Tank, Spray bar with optional multi-lane spray capability. The unit needs to be designed so that the flow is regulated by an internally mounted cab control module. The system shall automatically adjust fluid flow rates based on vehicle speed. It also needs to be calibratable for different application rates ranging from 18 to 100 gallons per lane mile.
> 
> The specs change a bit from year to year, so I'd like to get a 1500 gallon tank. Looking at new units, it appears that the asking price on one of these is around $12,000.
> 
> Just looking for some advice and sources.
> 
> Thank you.
> Leon.


When talking about a capacity of 1200 gallons you will be looking at approx 11 pounds per gallon + sprayer weight. 1200 gallons = approx 16,000 pounds & 1950 gallons = approx 23,000 pounds.

$12,000 is about right for what you are looking for. Personally I wouldn't get into the gps controlled controllers. Just not worth the hassle and cost when spraying a salt brine that cost so little. Our DOT tried that approach and didn't work out so well. Keeping things simple and low cost, easy to repair , in my opinion is the way to go.

I set up a sprayer for a company down your way that had a State contract a year or so ago. I have not received any complaints with it. But simple and strait forward seems to work best.

By setting up the plumbing, valves, booms and nozzles right. Changing of flow rate of each individual boom section can take only seconds.


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## Kubota 8540

This is a sprayer I set up for the City of Joliet Illinois. A simple 1 lane sprayer, single valve that with the nozzles I supplied would spray 40 glm @ 30 mph. ( If I remember correctly) http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=128523&page=25

POST # 493


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## BigBoyPlowin

this looks offaly familiar.....http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=146989


----------



## Kubota 8540

Never sure where they end up once they leave?


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Kubota 8540;1644072 said:


> Never sure where they end up once they leave?


I guess so! :laughing:


----------



## smok531

was looking thru ebay and found this little guy just wanted to see if it will work it says 28% i need 23% for my brine correct?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-Salinity-Refractometer-for-salt-water-and-brine-0-28-Salinity-US-Stock-/400558624489?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d43278ee9


----------



## Kubota 8540

Not sure about that one but I know this will. http://www.novatech-usa.com/Products/Sodium-Chloride-Calcium-Chloride-Hydrometers/6611-2


----------



## Kubota 8540

These are pictures of a custom set up in Virginia. I supplied the basics and the owner set it up. Usually I just put the systems together, but thought I'd like to get involved in this one.

This is from the owner: 
The truck needs to be used for hauling equipment when it isn't loaded for spraying. If the totes are empty I think that with two people, I can remove them completely in under half an hour and have a clean flat bed. The hoses are designed to slide back under the truck and leave an empty bed for hauling equipment. The truck looks a bit funny, the right side of the bed is about a foot wider than the left. You can see that in order to center the boom on the bed, I had to move it to the right of the trailer hitch which is centered on the truck chassis. The front two totes are centered on the chassis, the rear four are offset to the left by about 6 inches. That allows me to run the supply hoses under the support pallet of the tote that faces it.

The truck came out really well. It looks good and we should be able to convert it between spraying and hauling equipment relatively easy.

































View attachment 128336


----------



## luckey

Evening Gentlemen,

What are your thoughts on a bar, simply using PVC tapped every 5" w/ 1/8" hose barbs for "tips"? Is there any down fall to this vs actual spray tips?


----------



## Kubota 8540

1/8" hose barb works fine under normal pressures 30-40 psi systems, not sure for gravity feed? 1/8" hose barb is the same size generally as a #30 tip, puts out a LOT of liquid. Basic down fall is that they will gravity drain until no liquid is left in the boom and supply hose where as regular tips with most nozzle bodies have a diaphragm that doesnt open until a certain pressure of liquid is exerted on it. Closes when pump is shut off.... no dribble draining.


----------



## terrapro

luckey- My booms have all been PVC with holes drilled and have had zero problems.


----------



## luckey

Thank you both for the reply. This will be a pressured system, using a roller pump coupled to a hydraulic motor, powered by tractor, adjustable flow hydraulics to run pump-control volume, any thoughts on this? Pros or cons?


----------



## Kubota 8540

luckey;1656534 said:


> Thank you both for the reply. This will be a pressured system, using a roller pump coupled to a hydraulic motor, powered by tractor, adjustable flow hydraulics to run pump-control volume, any thoughts on this? Pros or cons?


My first sprayer was a roller pump hooked to the pto on my Kubota 8540. I liked it but after using it for a while I wished I had used the roller pump hooked up to a hydraulic motor instead. I think you are on the right track. Manual boom valves were easy for me by reaching out the back window, but after thoughts made me think if I were to do it again I would use electric ball boom valves and kept the window shut and been more toasty.


----------



## luckey

Not entirely "sprayer related", but kind of. What are your thoughts on a wetting system using a pendulum spreader, vicon to be exact. Since there is no spinner to direct the liquid at, depending upon which spout I am using the pendulum side to side distance will be roughly 2.5--3.75'. Would mounting a spray nozzle to have this approx. width spraying a couple inches past the end of the spout be an idea to try? Pump would be electric. Would it get the salt wet enough? The salt is leaving the spout quickly, maybe it wouldn't do any good? Thought would be to use CaCl?


----------



## luckey

Also, is there any reason a person can't use a hydrometer with specific gravity range it 1.00--1.6 for both NaCl (23.5% SG 1.18) and CaCl (32% SG 1.32)? Other than ease of use/readings?

Thanks


----------



## Kubota 8540

luckey;1657698 said:


> Not entirely "sprayer related", but kind of. What are your thoughts on a wetting system using a pendulum spreader, vicon to be exact. Since there is no spinner to direct the liquid at, depending upon which spout I am using the pendulum side to side distance will be roughly 2.5--3.75'. Would mounting a spray nozzle to have this approx. width spraying a couple inches past the end of the spout be an idea to try? Pump would be electric. Would it get the salt wet enough? The salt is leaving the spout quickly, maybe it wouldn't do any good? Thought would be to use CaCl?


If you get a large enough nozzle it can be done.

Yes you can use the hydrometer for both.


----------



## road2damascus

Great thread so far. I am on page 14 now. I just got interested in liquids. After reading another thread, I successfully made 30 gallons of salt/calcium brine using a fish aquarium! I applied with a Chapin pre treat back pack sprayer and the areas have successfully melted away two small dustings and look like they are good for one more : ) 

This year will be an experimental season for me and liquids. Next year I would like to build a system like some of you have on a dedicated truck or trailer.

This year I would like to build a small pre wet system for a 850lb tailgate spreader. Maybe 25 gallons. I have studied the snow ex pre wet system and could get one for 650 but after reading all this, it looks like a lot more fun to build...plus, I spent most of my equipment budget this year so cheaper is good.

Any advise is welcome. What nozzles to use, best pump for application, where to buy stuff, diameter of hose, inlet outlet diameter of pump...

Thanks for all the pictures and info on this thread. I will continue reading. I will probably doing a lot more with liquid next season.


----------



## MF 5455

Hi road2damascus...welcome !!!

I'm still sorta new to the site also. I joined last year along about now.

Our company has been introduced to the brine spraying...most of the "thanks", goes to our friend Kubota, who is an ol timer on this site. He has directed myself, and I'm sure many others in the right direction on the liquid making, spraying etc.

I sprayed between 4-5,000 gallons last winter, and made all the brine with my own brine maker that was a duplicate of the one Kubota made. This year, I have put together a 1,000 gallon brine maker. I'm hoping to have it in full operation soon...very soon. I'm about out of last years brine, and have been real busy with fall excavation work, so haven't picked up my salt as of to date.

I have purchased a tandem load of rock salt, (smallest quantity available) at the docks just off Lake Ontario. That will make more than enough brine for us, and plenty for the v box as well. I have discontinued the sand/salt mix, and only use 90/10 sodium/calc. brine, along with some straight salt for those ice storms we have here. 

Hope you have good luck in your spraying adventures.
I plan to post some new pictures of my brine maker, as well as my latest one-in-all truck.


----------



## road2damascus

I just got a never installed pump. Didn't pay much for it but looks to cost over 200 new! Will this work for a pre wet system?
Shurflo Extreme Smart Sensor 4.0*12 VDC*Dimension* 8.3" x 5.3" x 5.0"* 
4.0 GPM* Amps (Max.)* 9Shut-Off Pressure :*50 PSI* [3.4 BAR]*


----------



## rockymtnlawn

*Pump GPM?*

I am trying to make a DIY sprayer for my pickup, I am just using it on a couple on a small apartment complex. When I was buying parts at a local agriculture store the salesman provided me with a pump that is inadequate (12v fimco 2.8gpm). Now I need to replace the pump but am not sure what GPM I need. I would like to stay cheap for now as I only have one liquid contract but I would like to go faster than 1 MPH.


----------



## Kubota 8540

rockymtnlawn;1682271 said:


> I am trying to make a DIY sprayer for my pickup, I am just using it on a couple on a small apartment complex. When I was buying parts at a local agriculture store the salesman provided me with a pump that is inadequate (12v fimco 2.8gpm). Now I need to replace the pump but am not sure what GPM I need. I would like to stay cheap for now as I only have one liquid contract but I would like to go faster than 1 MPH.


I'm not a fan of electric pumps, but 2 or 3 of these and maybe you can spray 4-6 mph?

http://www.delavanagpumps.com/powerflo/fb2.htm


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Road 2 I use a gas engine on mine, never had any issues, I bought the Chemical pump from northern tool 
Like 280+ shipping... Tons of power going on my second winter with it.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Got everything laid out, waiting for the filters and a few more parts to come from dultmeier then I will begin building my new setup... cant wait!
Hope is to make 3000 Gallons at a time... using 2 pumps...


----------



## Kubota 8540

NorthernSvc's;1691860 said:


> Got everything laid out, waiting for the filters and a few more parts to come from dultmeier then I will begin building my new setup... cant wait!
> Hope is to make 3000 Gallons at a time... using 2 pumps...


Hey its been awhile, how have you been?
Getting ready to make brine? BBBBRRRRRRR..... TOO cold to make brine.....LOL 
I only made brine ONCE in the winter outside, taught me everything I already knew I shouldnt do. I have my system down now. At the end of winter and I try to use up the salt I have left, then again in the fall when I get my first load of salt delivered. Store it all inside and normally good for the winter. No ice ,no snow, just connect my hose to which tank I want then flip the electric pump switch to load. Although a larger electric pump to fill the sprayer would be nice, I think 50-60 gallon per minute would be perfect.


----------



## GTMN

Is there any additive to thicken a brine?


----------



## Kubota 8540

GTMN;1705956 said:


> Is there any additive to thicken a brine?


Thicken? Why do you want to thicken? To make it stay on the surface longer?


----------



## GTMN

That is the thought. Water or brine moves down slopes quickly so if you could slow that process it would give the salt more time on the target. I used a non-chloride deicer for a parking ramp last year that was as thick as syrup and it was great because it stayed and tracked around well.


----------



## Kubota 8540

There are organics that can be added. One product that comes to mind is Geomelt. There are some others.


----------



## snowish10

I have a green liquid deicer- kubota or anyone else know what it is ???


----------



## Kubota 8540

snowish10;1720744 said:


> I have a green liquid deicer- kubota or anyone else know what it is ???


Seems to me there just isn't much green liquid to de-ice?

I had some well brine that had a green tint to it.

Not a clue, I give up.


----------



## snowish10

I know its not the right thread. But whats the average price for spraying a liquid deicer-salt brine, beet juice etc. ???


----------



## terrapro

App is app but if they want a more expensive product you have to charge more.


----------



## joeyg999

1300xysport


----------



## terrapro

What salinometer did you recommend Kubota? Guess I'm getting beck into liquid as bulk has skyrocketed.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1728567 said:


> What salinometer did you recommend Kubota? Guess I'm getting beck into liquid as bulk has skyrocketed.


No matter what the price of salt, salt brine is always less $$. Due to the fact your using approx 75% less salt.

1 ton rock salt treats approx 3 acres. = 666# per acre

1 ton rock salt makes 800 gallons of brine. = 100 gallons per acre, treats 8 acres

I Don't understand how someone can go all liquid? Some snows need rock, some can be handled with liquid.

The only reason I like this one? Numbers are bigger....LOL
http://www.globalscientificsupply.c...ometer_Salinity_NaCl_0_to_26_5_by_Weight.html


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Kubota 8540;1696896 said:


> Hey its been awhile, how have you been?
> Getting ready to make brine? BBBBRRRRRRR..... TOO cold to make brine.....LOL
> I only made brine ONCE in the winter outside, taught me everything I already knew I shouldnt do. I have my system down now. At the end of winter and I try to use up the salt I have left, then again in the fall when I get my first load of salt delivered. Store it all inside and normally good for the winter. No ice ,no snow, just connect my hose to which tank I want then flip the electric pump switch to load. Although a larger electric pump to fill the sprayer would be nice, I think 50-60 gallon per minute would be perfect.


yes it has! every time I try to get something done it keeps snowing.... but i guess thats a good problem to have payup

I still havent gotten around to putting the setup back together, this year has been crazy, although I did finally get everything in from dultmeier... at this rate Ill have my first batch made for next year.... biggest lesson I learned from last year? PVC cement does not work well in the cold :laughing: we had a few blowouts... so everything is being put together in the shop in pieces, then I have a couple of unions so I can thread it all together outside. I also messed around with the downpipes, tried a few different setups, but just like you I cam to the same conclusion, straight down is best!
The way i am planning to set the system up I should hopefully be able to make 3000 gallons at a time.... I use the brine a lot for sidewalks and I had a lot of issues last year with undissolved salt fines clogging up the little pump on my snowex walk behind sprayer... which I also had to gut and replace all the piping because of the retards in their engineering dept... but that is a story for another day...
so after sucking up from the bottom tank of the brine maker I will have the salt go through a bunch of decreasing in size screen filters to help strain out and dissolve any remaining salt before pumping it into the big tank...


----------



## terrapro

Yeah I am going to put the tank in my backup truck and keep bulk for the lead truck.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

Kubota 8540 or anyone else for this matter, What would you suggest if we were thinking about adding a Pre wet system to our existing truck with a SaltDogg V box?!?

I was thinking one or two electric pumps, one pump for Spraying liquid CC at the rock as it leaves the spreader, and the second pump would spray out of one or two nozzles directed at the ground? Has anyone ever done this? Thoughts?


----------



## ajracing81

Anyone have or use a 4c liquid sprayer just wondering how they are? Made by Blades enterprise


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Quick question. How do you guys attach the boom pipe to your receiver hitch? Is it welded or a combination of clamps and bolts? Getting stoked to get my sprayer going!


----------



## slc12345

Bigboy,
You will not be happy with a system like that. We have tried that and it is great for treating at the spinner but does not have enough power for putting down enough on the pavement, we also thought it would be a great idea but it never seemed to put down enough on the pavement it worked great for the treating the product as it came out. We switched over to a gas powered 350 gallon tank in the back of a pickup to take care of pre-treatments.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

valleyviewlawns;1738618 said:


> Quick question. How do you guys attach the boom pipe to your receiver hitch? Is it welded or a combination of clamps and bolts? Getting stoked to get my sprayer going!


We weld had the tube that slides into the receiver welded to a Piece of 90* 4"x4" Then since we used Boomless nozzles, it protected them..somewhat. And it also doubled as a pretty good strep. 
see pic!



slc12345;1738640 said:


> Bigboy,
> You will not be happy with a system like that. We have tried that and it is great for treating at the spinner but does not have enough power for putting down enough on the pavement, we also thought it would be a great idea but it never seemed to put down enough on the pavement it worked great for the treating the product as it came out. We switched over to a gas powered 350 gallon tank in the back of a pickup to take care of pre-treatments.


Yeah, I think I'll end up just using it as a pre treat at the spinner.


----------



## firelwn82

how wide does that setup spray? That looks like a pretty good idea there but I think I would put it closer to the hitch and make it wider..


----------



## Kubota 8540

I have tried all kinds of electric pumps, they are ok for quads, utv's and spraying at the spinner. When/if I ever find an electric pump that is worth it's price and can apply enough liquid to the ground, I will be the first to share it here. So far a lot of claims and simply no delivery.


----------



## Kubota 8540

NorthernSvc's;1728764 said:


> yes it has! every time I try to get something done it keeps snowing.... but i guess thats a good problem to have payup
> 
> I still havent gotten around to putting the setup back together, this year has been crazy, although I did finally get everything in from dultmeier... at this rate Ill have my first batch made for next year.... biggest lesson I learned from last year? PVC cement does not work well in the cold :laughing: we had a few blowouts... so everything is being put together in the shop in pieces, then I have a couple of unions so I can thread it all together outside. I also messed around with the downpipes, tried a few different setups, but just like you I cam to the same conclusion, straight down is best!
> The way i am planning to set the system up I should hopefully be able to make 3000 gallons at a time.... I use the brine a lot for sidewalks and I had a lot of issues last year with undissolved salt fines clogging up the little pump on my snowex walk behind sprayer... which I also had to gut and replace all the piping because of the retards in their engineering dept... but that is a story for another day...
> so after sucking up from the bottom tank of the brine maker I will have the salt go through a bunch of decreasing in size screen filters to help strain out and dissolve any remaining salt before pumping it into the big tank...


Every time I get soaked with brine all I can think of are Margarita's.


----------



## CowboysLC_DE

66 pages later, here I am. it only took me three days to read over all the posts and absorb the information. I plan on building a unit in the Summer and making some brine next Fall. I will be sure to add some photos. I don't know of anyone in Delaware using liquid other than the state.

Michael


----------



## Kubota 8540

CowboysLC_DE;1739310 said:


> 66 pages later, here I am. it only took me three days to read over all the posts and absorb the information. I plan on building a unit in the Summer and making some brine next Fall. I will be sure to add some photos. I don't know of anyone in Delaware using liquid other than the state.
> 
> Michael


I see someone NEEDS some snow! 3 days to read? Really? It has been snowing or blowing what snowed, every other day here for the past 6 weeks! I swear I have plowed the same snow so much I have wore it out. LOL

Tonight is basically the first night I have no need to get in the skidsteer or truck. So what am I doing? Posting on plowsite.


----------



## CowboysLC_DE

About 7 hours total, I was clicking on all of the links and bookmarking pages. We had a foot of snow 10 days ago and then a 2" storm Saturday night. Better then nothing the past two winters. Possible 1-3" tonight but im about to head to the bars now for a buddies birthday. Im a sub this year so I don't have to worry about a tank or spreader in my trucks bed.

Michael


----------



## cj7plowing

alright I finally dug my 100 gallon pesticide tank out of my yard and plan on turning it into a pre treat calcium tank. What I have is the tank, frame hose on electric hose reel and pick up in the tank. Tank was cleaned 4 years ago before being put to the back of the yard. 

The motor took a sh1t awhile ago and was removed. We are planning on using it with two wands for sidewalks, paver and brick areas. 

I want to use an 12v pump with a large battery. I know I will have to cut down on the length of the hose so I don't kill the head pressure. 

So what I would like to know is what pump is really good,what wand to use and anything else I maybe for getting. maybe a filter after the tank.

I will use 15-20 gallons a storm between 5 different places. 

If it works well for me, I will revamp it and put a bar out the back.


----------



## Kubota 8540

I have used the 5 gpm for the wand and the 7 gpm for the boom.


----------



## cj7plowing

Kubota thank you I was hoping you would chime in. what wand should I get and also what size hose are you using with the banjo fittings?


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

firelwn82;1738937 said:


> how wide does that setup spray? That looks like a pretty good idea there but I think I would put it closer to the hitch and make it wider..


It spreads "evenly" .. We didn't want too much overlap in the center, But this setup was made to spread one lane or 2 lanes curb to curb. It's pretty cool.

Here's the spread pattern:


----------



## firelwn82

Do you know what kind of spray tips your using? How does it do on super windy days? Are you using a gas or an electric pump?


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

firelwn82;1739655 said:


> Do you know what kind of spray tips your using? How does it do on super windy days? Are you using a gas or an electric pump?


I actually stopped using liquid brine all together last year, and sold everything except my booms and wiring. It just didn't hold as well as rock salt did for me on LES storms. Therefore I was pretty much spinning my tires, where as others were only out once or MAYBE twice. We only use it at our condos for the walks. Go figure, the year after i get rid of it, rock salt has a "Shortage/ Increase in price"

But it wasn't all that bad on windy days, we made do... Also being powered by a 5.5HP gas pump probably made a difference too.

Heres the link to the kind nozzles shown above. I bought mine locally though. 
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/7878


----------



## dodgegmc1213

hey Kubota, have you ever used the 12volt 150psi pump from dultmeier? http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.851.857.4045/7405


----------



## terrapro

Well I was at my supplier picking up bulk for maybe the last time today. He can't get any and if he can it is well over $100 a ton for him so it would be atleast $120-$130 for us. Time to go back to liquid. 
Have my tank loaded but for some reason there must have been some water in it cause what little was in there from last year is froze?!

I have a feeling this thread is going to pick up because of the shortage.


----------



## CowboysLC_DE

Your suppose to run anti-freeze through the machine at the end of the season at least if not more often. It comes up several times in the last 66 pages.

Open the valves and the salt brine should melt everything inside the pump or hoses.

Michael


----------



## Kubota 8540

dodgegmc1213;1740291 said:


> hey Kubota, have you ever used the 12volt 150psi pump from dultmeier? http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.851.857.4045/7405


I haven't used that particular pump, but I usually use Delevan Fatboys 5&7 gpm?
Electric pumps seem fine for atv, utv and spraying at the spinner.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1740320 said:


> Well I was at my supplier picking up bulk for maybe the last time today. He can't get any and if he can it is well over $100 a ton for him so it would be atleast $120-$130 for us. Time to go back to liquid.
> Have my tank loaded but for some reason there must have been some water in it cause what little was in there from last year is froze?!
> 
> I have a feeling this thread is going to pick up because of the shortage.


Moisture collects in the tanks during the summer seems no matter what, so very important to use some type anti-freeze. I use the pink for potable water systems. RV anti-freeze. Enviro friendly you know.

Got Calcium chloride?, that should melt it also?


----------



## Kubota 8540

CowboysLC_DE;1740335 said:


> Your suppose to run anti-freeze through the machine at the end of the season at least if not more often. It comes up several times in the last 66 pages.
> 
> Open the valves and the salt brine should melt everything inside the pump or hoses.
> 
> Michael


Absolutely true. Not only to keep it from freezing but also to neutralize the chlorides and keep the system lubed. Simply cheap protection.

Don't forget to run it thru the spray bar too.


----------



## Kubota 8540

firelwn82;1739655 said:


> Do you know what kind of spray tips your using? How does it do on super windy days? Are you using a gas or an electric pump?


I have had better luck with stream nozzles even just using a 1/4" hose barb will work. But I prefer the TeeJet triple stream SJ-3 type nozzles?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Looks like I got my 24 ton salt load delivered just in time before the SHORTAGE and price gouging begins. And no I don't always use rock salt. I use what works best for each snow fall. I save my rock salt and only use as needed. I prefer to use it to make salt brine.

In my area we have had some extremely cold temps, 0 to -17F, and I played around with different liquid mix ratio's and combinations of spraying and applying rock salt. My lots were melted at -15F and no re-freeze.

The usual 90/10 simply stopped working a +5F, richened the mix with some calcium chloride, and full on melt at -17F. Didn't have to spray straight calcium chloride either.

I should also say that I did have to use 25-30% more volume of liquid than normal, but still better than rock salt?


----------



## dodgegmc1213

Kubota 8540;1740981 said:


> I haven't used that particular pump, but I usually use Delevan Fatboys 5&7 gpm?
> Electric pumps seem fine for atv, utv and spraying at the spinner.


I wanna try and get into brine next year. I was thinking of these pumps to use, I dont know if 1 will be enough for what I want to do or if I need 2. I do sealcoating and i plan on using the spray tips we use for sealer. Harden 80/30 tips. I dont know if you heard of them?


----------



## Kubota 8540

dodgegmc1213;1741034 said:


> I wanna try and get into brine next year. I was thinking of these pumps to use, I dont know if 1 will be enough for what I want to do or if I need 2. I do sealcoating and i plan on using the spray tips we use for sealer. Harden 80/30 tips. I dont know if you heard of them?


I have seen them but have never used them and don't know how they rate the gpm flow, but I would think they should work as long as you can supply enough volume to them.


----------



## dodgegmc1213

Kubota 8540;1741051 said:


> I have seen them but have never used them and don't know how they rate the gpm flow, but I would think they should work as long as you can supply enough volume to them.


Thats why I figured a high pressure pump, maybe 2 of them. We tried it years ago (I dont know what the pump was) and we had about 5 or 6 spray tips in a 3/4" pvc spray bar if I remember it was just a stream coming out not a fan type spray.


----------



## GSS LLC

well. i picked up a 1000 gallon tank for free.95 today. one step closer to getting serious about liquid. i have the sprayer set up. although i need to remake it and clean it up. if i have the extra coin, im getting another engine this winter to use for brine making. and i found a local place that sells bulk. so maybe next year i will be full on ****** with liquid.


----------



## terrapro

GSS LLC;1741854 said:


> well. i picked up a 1000 gallon tank for free.95 today. one step closer to getting serious about liquid. i have the sprayer set up. although i need to remake it and clean it up. if i have the extra coin, im getting another engine this winter to use for brine making. and i found a local place that sells bulk. so maybe next year i will be full on ****** with liquid.


NICE deal there! Can't pass up free that then ends up making you money right!


----------



## CowboysLC_DE

Are you planning on making that into one of your brine maker tanks or are you going to use it as your storage tank?

Michael


----------



## cj7plowing

Hey Kubota what wand should I use? also where can I get a 8ft spray bar for the rear?


----------



## Kubota 8540

cj7plowing;1742938 said:


> Hey Kubota what wand should I use? also where can I get a 8ft spray bar for the rear?


I meant to get the wand model number for you yesterday, but snowed again yesterday. Another 7" snowfall. 2 days 2 hours sleep, cant see anymore. Heading to bed for awhile then I will be back in the shop. I will post later today.

8 foot spray bar? Most are 80" unless they are custom built. I use mainly 101". These are too wide on a truck with plow generally.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Kubota 8540;1741005 said:


> Looks like I got my 24 ton salt load delivered just in time before the SHORTAGE and price gouging begins. And no I don't always use rock salt. I use what works best for each snow fall. I save my rock salt and only use as needed. I prefer to use it to make salt brine.
> 
> In my area we have had some extremely cold temps, 0 to -17F, and I played around with different liquid mix ratio's and combinations of spraying and applying rock salt. My lots were melted at -15F and no re-freeze.
> 
> The usual 90/10 simply stopped working a +5F, richened the mix with some calcium chloride, and full on melt at -17F. Didn't have to spray straight calcium chloride either.
> 
> I should also say that I did have to use 25-30% more volume of liquid than normal, but still better than rock salt?


How much calcium chloride did you add to get down to -17? We are expecting -19 this week.


----------



## terrapro

Valley I would just use straight LCC at those temps. Even then you will still end up with slush without enough liquid down.


----------



## rbljack

Kubota 8540;1740990 said:


> Absolutely true. Not only to keep it from freezing but also to neutralize the chlorides and keep the system lubed. Simply cheap protection.
> 
> Don't forget to run it thru the spray bar too.


Ok, been trying to absorb all this info, and have a quick question about the anti freeze. Is it run through as a 100 percent concentrate solution of only anti freeze, or a 50/50 mix with water. Im guessing 50/50 or 60/40 to ensure best anti freezing properties.


----------



## rbljack

rbljack;1750308 said:


> Ok, been trying to absorb all this info, and have a quick question about the anti freeze. Is it run through as a 100 percent concentrate solution of only anti freeze, or a 50/50 mix with water. Im guessing 50/50 or 60/40 to ensure best anti freezing properties.


I wasn't able to edit my post, so here is an add on question. I went to northern tools looking at many different gas powered pumps, and coudnt find any that were compatible with anti freeze. If you look at the questions and answers for some of those pumps, people would ask if you could run anti freeze, and the response was no because of the seals used.

Scratchin my head on this one.....


----------



## luckey

Kubota 8540;1460333 said:


> Slowly working on my new sprayer. 3 one inch valves, capable of both hard wire quick attach or wireless 4 function controller. Main boom that will spray approx 11' with stream nozzles and L&R at the same time to add an additional 5'. 1 fan spray that will cover 30' @ 7 mph 100 gpa.
> 
> View attachment 111766
> 
> 
> Trying a new low profile style tank.......we'll see how this holds up?


Question on this setup, first why no regulating valve, are you using the ball valve to control pressure.

The brine is being drawn from the bottom of this tank, correct? Any reason for this versus drawing from the top with tube extending down?

Also, what does L&R mean?

Thanks


----------



## Kubota 8540

luckey;1751837 said:


> Question on this setup, first why no regulating valve, are you using the ball valve to control pressure.
> 
> The brine is being drawn from the bottom of this tank, correct? Any reason for this versus drawing from the top with tube extending down?
> 
> Also, what does L&R mean?
> 
> Thanks


Using a manual valve to control pressure, not enough flow difference when using all nozzles to warrant spending another $200 for an electric regulating valve. The manual valve is located on the return line from the top of the tank near the 3 manifold valves. Set it and forget it.

I set mine up to draw from the bottom so I can also use the same line as a tank drain and a suction port to load from any container.

L&R? Left and right


----------



## Kubota 8540

rbljack;1750316 said:


> I wasn't able to edit my post, so here is an add on question. I went to northern tools looking at many different gas powered pumps, and coudnt find any that were compatible with anti freeze. If you look at the questions and answers for some of those pumps, people would ask if you could run anti freeze, and the response was no because of the seals used.
> 
> Scratchin my head on this one.....


I use the pink RV anti freeze (for potable water systems), not the cooling system type anti freeze.


----------



## rbljack

Kubota 8540;1751995 said:


> I use the pink RV anti freeze (for potable water systems), not the cooling system type anti freeze.


Thanks Kubota, after doing some quick searching, I found a quick article about this that might be helpful to others about this and help avoid a costly pump seal problem.

http://www.peterboroughrv.com/RV_Antifreeze.htm


----------



## Wiedmann

rbljack;1752072 said:


> Thanks Kubota, after doing some quick searching, I found a quick article about this that might be helpful to others about this and help avoid a costly pump seal problem.
> 
> http://www.peterboroughrv.com/RV_Antifreeze.htm


Curious how much these units are costing guys who build them themselves


----------



## born2farm

We're working on putting a sprayer together quick to battle the salt shortage. One question I have is.....we're going to run a single electric valve for boom shutoff. I cannot get a three way valve locally. Wouldn't a T between the valve and the tank do the same thing? When the valve is shut it redirects through the T and into the tank.


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

born2farm;1754514 said:


> We're working on putting a sprayer together quick to battle the salt shortage. One question I have is.....we're going to run a single electric valve for boom shutoff. I cannot get a three way valve locally. Wouldn't a T between the valve and the tank do the same thing? When the valve is shut it redirects through the T and into the tank.


That's what we did on one of our sprayers. Your logic is dead on, if the pump is on, but your boom is "off" you want the liquid to circulate back into the tank so you don't ruin your pump/ hoses. We always added an additional valve after the T going back to the tank because we found we were losing too much pressure when spraying, without the regulator turned slightly.


----------



## rbljack

can someone draw out a basic system showing the valve locations, and routing of hoses so I can put all these postings together a bit better in my head. I know I could build a unit with a little help, and understand the basics, but there are still lots I don't understand. I thought id start off with a small electric system, which I can put together np. But id like a bit more info on the routing of these larger gas powered pump systems, and also one of the brine makers. I watched a few of the videos, and understand the basic principles, but don't understand how they are plumbed with the valves and hoses to get them to mix, drain, fll, recirculate etc. If those drawings were posted somewhere back in the previous 60 pages...sorry if I missed it...LOL. If I can find info on herbicide sprayer booms, im guessing it might be a similar set up right?

I get having a return line coming somewhere off the pump back to the tank so the pump doesn't overheat when not spraying. its similar to a pressure washer set up with a belt drive pump. My buddy had one of those, and was showing me how a pressure washer pump can overheat if not being used and sitting there running in bypass without a return line.

I also understand the principle of having the three controllable valves for the boom so the spray pattern width can be controlled from within the truck. Still trying to put the whole plan together in my head I guess


----------



## born2farm

What are you guys running for booms? I have seen some with Galvinized and some with PVC. I was planning on galvanized, but I have no way to thread it after I cut it to size. I assume PVC will do just fine since we are not running very high psi?


----------



## BigBoyPlowin

born2farm;1755876 said:


> What are you guys running for booms? I have seen some with Galvinized and some with PVC. I was planning on galvanized, but I have no way to thread it after I cut it to size. I assume PVC will do just fine since we are not running very high psi?


Most places where you buy the galvanized from, will thread it for you too. that's what we ended up doing.

Pretty sure Home Depot even does that. The only problem is, you kinda have to know exactly what you want size wise on the spot..


----------



## Kubota 8540

rbljack;1754834 said:


> can someone draw out a basic system showing the valve locations, and routing of hoses so I can put all these postings together a bit better in my head. I know I could build a unit with a little help, and understand the basics, but there are still lots I don't understand. I thought id start off with a small electric system, which I can put together np. But id like a bit more info on the routing of these larger gas powered pump systems, and also one of the brine makers. I watched a few of the videos, and understand the basic principles, but don't understand how they are plumbed with the valves and hoses to get them to mix, drain, fll, recirculate etc. If those drawings were posted somewhere back in the previous 60 pages...sorry if I missed it...LOL. If I can find info on herbicide sprayer booms, im guessing it might be a similar set up right?
> 
> I get having a return line coming somewhere off the pump back to the tank so the pump doesn't overheat when not spraying. its similar to a pressure washer set up with a belt drive pump. My buddy had one of those, and was showing me how a pressure washer pump can overheat if not being used and sitting there running in bypass without a return line.
> 
> I also understand the principle of having the three controllable valves for the boom so the spray pattern width can be controlled from within the truck. Still trying to put the whole plan together in my head I guess


Well I don't know anything about this sprayer as far as how well it works but the picture shows the basic plumbing for an electric powered pump set up.

http://www.sprayers.com/CatalogFiles/313-323.pdf


----------



## Kubota 8540

born2farm;1755876 said:


> What are you guys running for booms? I have seen some with Galvinized and some with PVC. I was planning on galvanized, but I have no way to thread it after I cut it to size. I assume PVC will do just fine since we are not running very high psi?


I prefer Stainless Steel, it would be first choice, galv pipe 2nd, and pvc 3rd?


----------



## Brian Young

Hi Jim, just wondering what engine/pump you use. Im putting another system together and probably using a Honda GX160 with a Banjo centrifugal pump with a wet seal (cheap insurance). This one is going to have a reel and 200ft of hose for sidewalk spraying. Our local guy wanted 850-900 bucks for that set up. Dutmier wants aright around 600.00, guess which way I'm going,lol. BTW our Sotera pump is a 4000 or 4400 series which is I think 13-15 gmp. We just put 12 pencil tips on a 8ft 1 1/2 bar and getting great coverage, didnt loose any pressure like they thought it would.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Brian Young;1757710 said:


> Hi Jim, just wondering what engine/pump you use. Im putting another system together and probably using a Honda GX160 with a Banjo centrifugal pump with a wet seal (cheap insurance). This one is going to have a reel and 200ft of hose for sidewalk spraying. Our local guy wanted 850-900 bucks for that set up. Dutmier wants aright around 600.00, guess which way I'm going,lol. BTW our Sotera pump is a 4000 or 4400 series which is I think 13-15 gmp. We just put 12 pencil tips on a 8ft 1 1/2 bar and getting great coverage, didnt loose any pressure like they thought it would.


I started out using Riverside pump with a Briggs and Stratton engine. Riverside is the old Homelite company. But most recently using a Pacer pump with Briggs and Stratton.

Check these out: http://www.brandnewengines.com/centrifugalwaterpump.aspx

I like the 2" Banjo Poly Pump 5.5 HP Honda Electric Start 11400 GPH #200PH-5E just not the Price. :laughing:


----------



## Brian Young

Kubota 8540;1757752 said:


> I started out using Riverside pump with a Briggs and Stratton engine. Riverside is the old Homelite company. But most recently using a Pacer pump with Briggs and Stratton.
> 
> Check these out: http://www.brandnewengines.com/centrifugalwaterpump.aspx
> 
> I like the 2" Banjo Poly Pump 5.5 HP Honda Electric Start 11400 GPH #200PH-5E just not the Price. :laughing:


I hear ya about the price! Ive never had any luck with anything Briggs. Most of our smaller landscape equipment is all Honda and it takes a beating but fires right up. Im also looking into boomless nozzles but I dont think they will get down through the hard pack if we had any like these pencil tips do.


----------



## Kubota 8540

born2farm;1754514 said:


> We're working on putting a sprayer together quick to battle the salt shortage. One question I have is.....we're going to run a single electric valve for boom shutoff. I cannot get a three way valve locally. Wouldn't a T between the valve and the tank do the same thing? When the valve is shut it redirects through the T and into the tank.


It will, but it will also not allow full flow to your spray nozzles. However using a 150 gpm pump, you would never know the difference anyway.


----------



## Kubota 8540

rbljack;1754834 said:


> can someone draw out a basic system showing the valve locations, and routing of hoses so I can put all these postings together a bit better in my head. I know I could build a unit with a little help, and understand the basics, but there are still lots I don't understand. I thought id start off with a small electric system, which I can put together np. But id like a bit more info on the routing of these larger gas powered pump systems, and also one of the brine makers. I watched a few of the videos, and understand the basic principles, but don't understand how they are plumbed with the valves and hoses to get them to mix, drain, fll, recirculate etc. If those drawings were posted somewhere back in the previous 60 pages...sorry if I missed it...LOL. If I can find info on herbicide sprayer booms, im guessing it might be a similar set up right?
> 
> I get having a return line coming somewhere off the pump back to the tank so the pump doesn't overheat when not spraying. its similar to a pressure washer set up with a belt drive pump. My buddy had one of those, and was showing me how a pressure washer pump can overheat if not being used and sitting there running in bypass without a return line.
> 
> I also understand the principle of having the three controllable valves for the boom so the spray pattern width can be controlled from within the truck. Still trying to put the whole plan together in my head I guess


http://www.teejet.com/english/home/tech-support/nozzle-technical-information/plumbing-diagrams.aspx


----------



## Kubota 8540

Wiedmann;1752702 said:


> Curious how much these units are costing guys who build them themselves


No good answer for that one. Totally depends if they use actual sprayer parts, pvc fittings, type of valves, if hose reel added, 1,2,3, lane booms, wood skid, steel skid, size and type of tank, etc. A guesstimate? between $500 and $3,000?


----------



## terrapro

Wiedmann;1752702 said:


> Curious how much these units are costing guys who build them themselves


Mines around a G or so...

http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/064831-pacer-550-ohv-transfer-pump.html

http://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/6053

http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.668.4707/9694


----------



## NuverPlawd

I'm somewhere around $1,500= (1) 2" Banjo pump (1 TK 205PB w/ custom mobile frame setup attached to a 5 honda) (2) 275 gal totes misc. fittings and hose (not even the fancy stuff I wanted) with mad hours and still not sprayed a drop! Too many events too little time and no LIQUIDOW IN THIS CITAY RAITE NAW! Shoot I can barely find bulk, its 4am and we're about to get SPANKD (6-10" this weekend).:crying:






Btw: I'm in Pittsburgh... if anyone has any leads on Chemicals bulk or Liquid CaCl (just need 55 gal for now) Give me a call# 4(one)2.596.8595-Eric


----------



## NuverPlawd

Kubota 8540;1756292 said:


> I prefer Stainless Steel, it would be first choice, galv pipe 2nd, and pvc 3rd?


I am using 3/4" PE tube with barbs. dunno how it will turn out, but I've used it for irrigation plenty.

Any ideas for a low tank shutoff to not burn the pump? I have a recoil start (I'll get there) and wired a cutoff for inside the truck but I wanted to explore the idea of having some type of auto shutoff like a toilet lever thingy inside the tank but opposite.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Never thought about a auto shut off switch before, just kind of know when no liquid coming out of spray tips, which I can see the 1 on the end of my boom from the mirror in my truck? But I suppose maybe a sump pump float would be able to be used?


----------



## rockymtnlawn

*Magnesium Chloride Brine?*

Has anyone tried to make a magnesium chloride brine? Could it be as simple as buying bulk and mixing with water just as salt brines are made?


----------



## valleyviewlawns

rockymtnlawn;1780169 said:


> Has anyone tried to make a magnesium chloride brine? Could it be as simple as buying bulk and mixing with water just as salt brines are made?


Where are you located in Montana? I am in Helena. I am having trouble finding a source for liquid calcium chloride, besides in Billings for $3.25/gallon. I am going to try the salt brine with liquid mag chloride at 90/10. I can get mag chloride for $1.00/gallon. Not sure about any sources here in Montana that would be cheaper. I have heard that if you mix your own liquid mag that you have to start with a tank of water and slowly put the mag pellet/flake in otherwise it will burn a hole in the poly.


----------



## Iawr

I'm weighing in on spraying next season. I have never sprayed before and have been researching the basics about it but I'm lost in a few places. I intend on spraying some of my commercial walks with a 4wheeler. I have a 26 gallon broadcast sprayer for it that we use to treat lawns with. Can I spray ice with the same sprayer?


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Iawr;1782473 said:


> I'm weighing in on spraying next season. I have never sprayed before and have been researching the basics about it but I'm lost in a few places. I intend on spraying some of my commercial walks with a 4wheeler. I have a 26 gallon broadcast sprayer for it that we use to treat lawns with. Can I spray ice with the same sprayer?


Yes, you can. It is a little slow but it works. I tried it out this winter with a 25 gallon FIMCO ATV sprayer. I used the 23.5% salt brine and it worked fine.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Kubota 8540;1383628 said:


> I found a cool little wireless remote control, that can take a power source from your trailer plug and no battery would be needed. http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch.asp?px=FO&scriteria=AA76970 this has 4 different channels so you can use it to turn on 4 different things. It works great with the boom valves. Simple hook up.


Would this work for the control valve on the sprayer? Rated up to 20A.

http://www.gemplers.com/product/171443/Fimco-12-volt-On-Off-Remote-Control


----------



## Kubota 8540

valleyviewlawns;1783195 said:


> Would this work for the control valve on the sprayer? Rated up to 20A.
> 
> http://www.gemplers.com/product/171443/Fimco-12-volt-On-Off-Remote-Control


If it works like they say. My experience with the wireless remotes didnt work out, they were cheap but junk. All I can say is buy and try?


----------



## Kubota 8540

rockymtnlawn;1780169 said:


> Has anyone tried to make a magnesium chloride brine? Could it be as simple as buying bulk and mixing with water just as salt brines are made?


I have been told to expect issues with keeping it mixed. I have not tried it myself.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

rockymtnlawn;1780169 said:


> Has anyone tried to make a magnesium chloride brine? Could it be as simple as buying bulk and mixing with water just as salt brines are made?


It's probably cheaper to buy premixed in bulk. We have a local dust control contractor that sells the mag chloride for $1/gallon. The closest price on calcium chloride is $3.25+ per gallon. Not sure of the cost yet for making my own calcium chloride liquid out of pellet or flake. Spendy stuff by the bag!


----------



## CCL Landscaping

Just picked up some ibc totes today. The first step in my liquid adventure. Plenty of time over the summer to get it set up.


----------



## Wiedmann

valleyviewlawns;1783861 said:


> It's probably cheaper to buy premixed in bulk. We have a local dust control contractor that sells the mag chloride for $1/gallon. The closest price on calcium chloride is $3.25+ per gallon. Not sure of the cost yet for making my own calcium chloride liquid out of pellet or flake. Spendy stuff by the bag!


For a $1 a gallon for mag.. i would buy it from them not have to deal with the mess of making it. I know for me to make 10,000 gallons which i normally use durning a season it would be a lot of work. Sure is nice to have a tanker truck pull up to my shop and just unload 2,000 at a time.


----------



## CCL Landscaping

Kubota 8540;1758993 said:


> http://www.teejet.com/english/home/tech-support/nozzle-technical-information/plumbing-diagrams.aspx
> 
> View attachment 133814
> 
> 
> View attachment 133819


I understanf most of this. What is the purpose of the throttling valve and the electrical regulator after the solenoids?


----------



## Kubota 8540

CCL Landscaping;1794540 said:


> I understanf most of this. What is the purpose of the throttling valve and the electrical regulator after the solenoids?


throttling valve = directing excess flow back to tank in order to keep flow within certain requirements

electrical regulator= adjustable ability to increase flow by increasing pressure before the valve/regulator

In using a Positive Displacement Pump, a throttling valve and a pressure relief valve are a must or hoses and fittings can and will burst. With a Non-Positive Displacement Pump, not so much. Most of these De-watering poly pumps usually only produce approx 40 psi. There are larger centrifugal pumps that you would need to use both a throttling valve and pressure relief.

What pump are you using?


----------



## CCL Landscaping

Kubota 8540;1796575 said:


> throttling valve = directing excess flow back to tank in order to keep flow within certain requirements
> 
> electrical regulator= adjustable ability to increase flow by increasing pressure before the valve/regulator
> 
> In using a Positive Displacement Pump, a throttling valve and a pressure relief valve are a must or hoses and fittings can and will burst. With a Non-Positive Displacement Pump, not so much. Most of these De-watering poly pumps usually only produce approx 40 psi. There are larger centrifugal pumps that you would need to use both a throttling valve and pressure relief.
> 
> What pump are you using?


I haven't picked up a pump yet. Banjo?


----------



## snowish10

Has anyone made a walk behind liquid sprayer. Any suggestions on a cheap pump less than $40.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

snowish10;1819970 said:


> Has anyone made a walk behind liquid sprayer. Any suggestions on a cheap pump less than $40.


get yourself a dolly :
https://www.google.com/shopping/pro....5&ei=rUnlU-3RBIyVyASd3ICAAQ&ved=0CMIBEKYrMAM

a tank:

http://www.uline.com/Product/AdvSea...on Drum&SubGroups=8154&view=ALL&TrackSearch=N

a bushing for the bottom - 1" will do...

http://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/2014

a 1" nipple, 1" t. 2 1" x 6" pipes, and 2 1 " caps..

drill a couple of holes in the 1" pipe and walla a sidewalk liquid unit...no pump required... probably wont work so well once you hit 2-3 gallons left...

all for under 130... add a pump? and your probably looking at another 1-150 for a decent 12v pump, switch and battery - plus the few fittings you would need...


----------



## Strictly Snow

Earthway makes a liquid walk behind.


----------



## snowish10

that a perfect tank! Going to try an make a little rig and maybe sell/ use on neighbors homes. Maybe ill start a ill cheaper. Thanks for the ideas! What are some liquids to start out with. I buy my liquid at russo power equ. Last time I had a green light that worked good, before that I had a brown liquid that smelled like molasses.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Midwest salt has some good products... inferno melt from reinders is good... or you can make your own...


----------



## snowish10

NorthernSvc's;1819981 said:


> Midwest salt has some good products... inferno melt from reinders is good... or you can make your own...


Can you pm or text or anyone on here. List what I have to do to make a small 15 gallons of it. Ik you have to get that meter but what else.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

I make 400 gallons at a time and it takes roughly 1000 pounds of salt.... depending on the purity of the salt you are using the exact amount will fluctuate...
bulk salt = a little more
solar a little less.

also helps to grind the salt up before you mix it - goes into solution much quicker...

and splurge on one of these
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.794.5318/9484


----------



## NorthernSvc's

if your only going to do 15 gallons at a time...thoeretically you could do it in a big tub with a drill and a mixer... all you really need to do is agitate the water to help dissolve the salt into solution...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/QEP-16-i...khHHffgnD6gDUe7yzvHZ2Pdb29UiGWGJF4aAnI58P8HAQ


----------



## xtreem3d

Evening guys,
There are just too many posts to go back through so I thought I would just ask ( I'm sure this was asked previously, so sorry ) I no nothing about setting up a unit so..What would be the top of the line ready made setup with a boom that might cover 15- 20 feet at a time, a hose reel for tight areas and walks, about 300 gallons and not sure of gas or electric ? If it was gas I would want a Honda engine . I have searched some setups but don't understand the "nuances" that make good or not so good units. Also can someone convert gallons of brine to tons of salt per application for me?
Thanks,
Steve


----------



## CCL Landscaping

Alright hope everyone had a good summer. Time to get down to business. Time to build my sprayer. Gonna have to reread the thread but I'm thinking of using 2 5gpm DC pumps for a boom and 1 3gpm for a hose to do sidewalks. Ibc tote. Blood sweat and tears. Anyone think of any issues to look at to keep the headaches low?


----------



## Kubota 8540

xtreem3d;1820365 said:


> Evening guys,
> There are just too many posts to go back through so I thought I would just ask ( I'm sure this was asked previously, so sorry ) I no nothing about setting up a unit so..What would be the top of the line ready made setup with a boom that might cover 15- 20 feet at a time, a hose reel for tight areas and walks, about 300 gallons and not sure of gas or electric ? If it was gas I would want a Honda engine . I have searched some setups but don't understand the "nuances" that make good or not so good units. Also can someone convert gallons of brine to tons of salt per application for me?
> Thanks,
> Steve


As a nice round number, some will say less, but 1,000 pounds rock salt per acre.
OR
100 gallons salt brine per acre.=(100 x 2.5 lb rock salt= 250 lb salt)


----------



## Kubota 8540

CCL Landscaping;1824449 said:


> Alright hope everyone had a good summer. Time to get down to business. Time to build my sprayer. Gonna have to reread the thread but I'm thinking of using 2 5gpm DC pumps for a boom and 1 3gpm for a hose to do sidewalks. Ibc tote. Blood sweat and tears. Anyone think of any issues to look at to keep the headaches low?


None, as long as you dont mind driving/spraying at 2-4 mph spraying with electric pumps ?


----------



## CCL Landscaping

From what I understand application rates are 30 gallons per acre. 5 GPM pump would be about 6 mins of spraying. Not horrible for small sites


----------



## Kubota 8540

CCL Landscaping;1825460 said:


> From what I understand application rates are 30 gallons per acre. 5 GPM pump would be about 6 mins of spraying. Not horrible for small sites


What liquid will you be spraying that has a 30 gpa rate?


----------



## CCL Landscaping

Ibg magic. From what I understand a gallon will cover 1-2k square feet. Thought?


----------



## NorthernSvc's

CCL Landscaping;1825499 said:


> Ibg magic. From what I understand a gallon will cover 1-2k square feet. Thought?


did they also try selling you any ocean front property in AZ?


----------



## NorthernSvc's

It will probably cover 1-2000 SF.... if you mist it?


----------



## NorthernSvc's

xtreem3d;1820365 said:


> Evening guys,
> There are just too many posts to go back through so I thought I would just ask ( I'm sure this was asked previously, so sorry ) I no nothing about setting up a unit so..What would be the top of the line ready made setup with a boom that might cover 15- 20 feet at a time, a hose reel for tight areas and walks, about 300 gallons and not sure of gas or electric ? If it was gas I would want a Honda engine . I have searched some setups but don't understand the "nuances" that make good or not so good units. Also can someone convert gallons of brine to tons of salt per application for me?
> Thanks,
> Steve


GAS!!! especially with 300 gallons and a 15-20 ft boom...


----------



## CCL Landscaping

NorthernSvc's;1825515 said:


> It will probably cover 1-2000 SF.... if you mist it?


I did some more research found a site say 70 gallons per an acre. What would you guys recommend. 70 gallons per and acre seems cost prohibitive. $3 per a gallon $200 per an acre???? Regular salt 700lbs per an acre. About $25 worth of salt.


----------



## Defcon 5

CCL Landscaping;1825524 said:


> I did some more research found a site say 70 gallons per an acre. What would you guys recommend. 70 gallons per and acre seems cost prohibitive. $3 per a gallon $200 per an acre???? Regular salt 700lbs per an acre. About $25 worth of salt.


Don't know what salt prices are in your area.....But, it would be a little more than $25 for almost a half ton of salt.....


----------



## CCL Landscaping

Defcon 5;1825544 said:


> Don't know what salt prices are in your area.....But, it would be a little more than $25 for almost a half ton of salt.....


Regular salt was $75 a ton. Should have used Magic salt at $99 to compare. Before the salt crash


----------



## NorthernSvc's

liquid has its place... so does granular...knowing how and when to use them can save you a ton of money by supplementing your deicing regimen with liquid... $3.00 per gallon is a bit pricey for liquids...
also if youre still getting quotes for $75 per ton I would stockpile that ****...


----------



## CCL Landscaping

What type of materials are you guys spraying and at what application rate?


----------



## Kubota 8540

NorthernSvc's;1825516 said:


> GAS!!! especially with 300 gallons and a 15-20 ft boom...


I have seen electric, I have built electric, and I wouldn't think to own anything but a GAS. Or Hydraulic.


----------



## Kubota 8540

CCL Landscaping;1825589 said:


> What type of materials are you guys spraying and at what application rate?


Sounds like you fell for one of those 1 drop will melt the entire parking lot sales pitches.

From what I have seen, when a salesman says a rate of 30 gpa, that would be used in an anti-icing application to simply help keep the snow from bonding to the pavement. Then it would need to be plowed and re-applied at the same or slightly higher (40 gpa?) rate post plowing to clean up the surface. But getting a 30 gpa rate would be merely a fine mist. Best I could say would be good luck?

The cheapest most effective and cost saving liquid combo I have found is salt brine and calcium chloride at a 90/10 ratio and 70-100 gpa depending on how fast a melt you want. I'm in a hurry and I need to see a melt before I leave the lot. I always load 100 gallons on the truck for an acre. I figure cost (no labor) of the liquid to be 16-25 cents per gallon.


----------



## CCL Landscaping

The reason I thought of going with the 5gpm pumps was because that's what the snowex brand uses. I guess the first year will be experimentation.


----------



## snowish10

I might build a walk behind sprayer- what is a okay/good pump for under $80 preferred and where can I buy it. And what size piping to get a strong pencil spray to break through hard packed snow and ice.


----------



## Kubota 8540

snowish10;1825937 said:


> I might build a walk behind sprayer- what is a okay/good pump for under $80 preferred and where can I buy it. And what size piping to get a strong pencil spray to break through hard packed snow and ice.


For a side walk sprayer it shouldnt take much of a pump, maybe a 1.8 gpm? Pretty much any pump your local farm type store sells for fertilizer. What width boom are you thinking? I would think maybe a 1/16" drill bit size hole or at least to start with, you can always drill a larger hole if need be. Or use some tips?

Pipe size would be no larger than the outlet size of your pump, 1/2 or 3/8"?


----------



## snowish10

Kubota 8540;1827652 said:


> For a side walk sprayer it shouldnt take much of a pump, maybe a 1.8 gpm? Pretty much any pump your local farm type store sells for fertilizer. What width boom are you thinking? I would think maybe a 1/16" drill bit size hole or at least to start with, you can always drill a larger hole if need be. Or use some tips?
> 
> Pipe size would be no larger than the outlet size of your pump, 1/2 or 3/8"?


I was thinking maybe a litle bit over 2.5' or 3' Whats a good brand that are other there?


----------



## Kubota 8540

snowish10;1827659 said:


> I was thinking maybe a litle bit over 2.5' or 3' Whats a good brand that are other there?


There are a lot of different brands. Shurflo, Flojet , Remco, Shertech, Hypro, Delevan, Gorman Rupp, etc. I use a lot of Delevan, but only because of price and availability. I'm not sure if one is better than the other?


----------



## snowish10

Kubota 8540;1828281 said:



> There are a lot of different brands. Shurflo, Flojet , Remco, Shertech, Hypro, Delevan, Gorman Rupp, etc. I use a lot of Delevan, but only because of price and availability. I'm not sure if one is better than the other?


The only place we have around me is cheapo habor freight. I found a pacific hyrdro star but it says its 200gph at 50psi. Dont it seem kind of high of gpm. Is there any way of slowing the gpm down. there was also one with 300gph.


----------



## Kubota 8540

snowish10;1828289 said:


> The only place we have around me is cheapo habor freight. I found a pacific hyrdro star but it says its 200gph at 50psi. Dont it seem kind of high of gpm. Is there any way of slowing the gpm down. there was also one with 300gph.


Farm and Fleet out in Montgomery or Sycamore has them. Big r stores have them. Rural King has them. Dultmeier has them. Countless places on line have them?

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...n=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=12 volt fertilizer pump

http://www.ruralking.com/delavan-1-0gpm-40psi-demand-pump-2200-201.html

http://www.ruralking.com/delavan-2-0gpm-60psi-demand-pump-7812-201.html

Also, just because they claim a certain gpm or gph, you can safely say about 80% of that might happen?


----------



## snowish10

NorthernSvc's;1819981 said:


> Midwest salt has some good products... inferno melt from reinders is good... or you can make your own...


To anyone or Kubota 8540 or northernSVC- I know theres a difference and the price is different. But what does salt brine do compared to a infernal melt from midwest salt.

I want to use something for drive ways and walks that wont kill grass or hurt the concrete like straight salt would.

Any tips of certain products would be greatly appericated.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

salt brine is essentially the end product of throwing rock salt...rock salt has to first turn into a brine before it does anything, it's the Brine solution that does all the work, because it has a lower freezing point it kinda "melts" the snow around it, and will continue to work until the salt solution gets too watered down and then the freezing point starts to rise.. up to 32 degrees when its just straight H20... that's why throwing rock salt is so forgiving as it allows you to melt a lot more snow - but if you think about it you end up over applying a ton, because you never really needed that much and the majority of the brine you make with granular ends up going right down the drain...

I am not sure about Inferno melt - but many of those products are sodium chloride based as salt really is a very effective de-icing product...and in liquid form is very low impact... because you are applying ( or should be) exactly what you need, you have a lot less excess chlorides in your runoff which is what causes the majority of your problems... that and the freeze thaw process...the reason so many people have issues with salt and pavement is because the are trying to melt too much snow with too much salt.... plow or shovel everything off first, then apply and you won't have any issues... We plow everything above 1/2" and then spray - unless its a really wet heavy snow or really cold then we apply granular.

they usually add corrosion inhibitors, they might add some type of carbohydrate like beet juice or molasses, or ... to make it more "sticky"
or coloring products so you can see where you are applying it...
or CMA calcium magnesium acetate...
or... the list goes on and on but essentially the majority of the materials they are adding is for one purpose and that is to lower the freezing point of the liquid..

Calcium and magnesium are great additives because they have a very low freezing point. and because it has a lower freezing point it "melts" the snow, as the snow melts the brine solution becomes diluted, so just remember depending on temp, surface temp, sunlight, and amount of snow you are trying to burn through hopefully you put down enough... otherwise it becomes too diluted and refreezes and poof instant skating rink


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Inferno melt is pretty good i have tried it before cant remember what exactly was in it, but has good sticking power, works really well for steps and sidewalks but is $$$.... my favorite concoction is a mix of brine, calcium chloride, and beet juice.


----------



## snowish10

NorthernSvc's;1832674 said:


> Inferno melt is pretty good i have tried it before cant remember what exactly was in it, but has good sticking power, works really well for steps and sidewalks but is $$$.... my favorite concoction is a mix of brine, calcium chloride, and beet juice.


Thanks for all the info. And I called Midwest that infernal melt I believe he said was around .86 cents something like that. Do you use your fav mix on your properties you plow?


----------



## CowboysLC_DE

Hi Jim (or other members),

I am getting ready to order the parts for my sprayer. I will be getting a briggs engine with a pacer pump as well as the teejet 3-way electric valve. The pump has 2" ports and the valve has 1" ports. Do you run 2" fertilizer hose with reducers on the valve?

Michael


----------



## Kubota 8540

CowboysLC_DE;1832759 said:


> Hi Jim (or other members),
> 
> I am getting ready to order the parts for my sprayer. I will be getting a briggs engine with a pacer pump as well as the teejet 3-way electric valve. The pump has 2" ports and the valve has 1" ports. Do you run 2" fertilizer hose with reducers on the valve?
> 
> Michael


I would say to split the 2" outlet with a tee. (1) 1" line to the 3 way valve, the other right back to the top of the tank. Put a manual valve in that line. This way when/if you use your pump to self load you will be filling from (2) 1" lines. Also if you need to, you can open/close that manual valve to regulate some pressure/flow.


----------



## Kubota 8540

NorthernSvc's......."unless / or really cold then we apply granular"

I think your statement from the above post is right on........BUT, last winter when it was extremely cold, I had time to experiment a bit. My 90/10 salt brine/cal chloride stopped working a +5F so I took the 200 gallons 90/10 and added 200 gallons 32% cal chloride and had complete melts easily below 0F

Not sure what ratio that would end up to be, but it worked great.


----------



## NuverPlawd

200 g @ 90/10 = 180 gal brine / 20 gal ccl2 ... + 200 gals ccl2 = 180 gal brine / 220 gals ccl2 ? 


220 g ccl2 32% @ $ xysport= holy expensive icemelt batman! No wonder the polar ice caps are melting. :yow!:


----------



## Kubota 8540

NuverPlawd;1837027 said:


> 200 g @ 90/10 = 180 gal brine / 20 gal ccl2 ... + 200 gals ccl2 = 180 gal brine / 220 gals ccl2 ?
> 
> 220 g ccl2 32% @ $ xysport= holy expensive icemelt batman! No wonder the polar ice caps are melting. :yow!:


180 gal salt brine x .08 = 14.40 
220 gal cal chloride x .60= 132.00

Total cost for 400 gallons = 146.40 = 0.366 per gallon

Applied @ 120 gallons per acre =0.366 per gallon = $43.92/acre ? Expensive? at below 0?

What liquid do you apply?


----------



## NuverPlawd

Kubota 8540;1837674 said:


> 180 gal salt brine x .08 = 14.40
> 220 gal cal chloride x .60= 132.00
> 
> Total cost for 400 gallons = 146.40 = 0.366 per gallon
> 
> Applied @ 120 gallons per acre =0.366 per gallon = $43.92/acre ? Expensive? at below 0?
> 
> What liquid do you apply?


Got damn what are you? Ordering liquidow by the tanker? I will have to travel and pay more than twice that 250gal. Priced out beet molasses and same boat.

Only need to finish up the system.. odds n ends. Grab a tote of water and start my first batch ever. Been a long road but I'm so close I can taste the brine. It will take me at least two winters to pay off the system cash wise. But when it comes to stretching salt, that's priceless.


----------



## liquidchloride

Kubota

will 125 gallons melt over 1/2 inch of snow at say 15-20 degrees--do you plow first


----------



## Ice Patrol

Question for the guys making bulk brine..... Has anyone added restaurant grade molasses to their mix to make it tacky so it will bind to pavements prior to a storm? I'm thinking I could boil the molasses and add to the brine as a hot liquid.

I can get 5 gallons for $26.00 which makes it easy to experiment with and I thought this might give me extra holding power in our typically rainy/wet snow events in Maryland.

Also, any ideas on adding a color additive to the brine so the customer gets the sense that I'm putting down something other than water. Just a marketing thing for some of my residential customers, not commercial accounts.

Thanks,
Craig


----------



## Kubota 8540

NuverPlawd;1838241 said:


> Got damn what are you? Ordering liquidow by the tanker? I will have to travel and pay more than twice that 250gal. Priced out beet molasses and same boat.
> 
> Only need to finish up the system.. odds n ends. Grab a tote of water and start my first batch ever. Been a long road but I'm so close I can taste the brine. It will take me at least two winters to pay off the system cash wise. But when it comes to stretching salt, that's priceless.


Not a tanker but a REALLY great salesman? Even bought me lunch!

Don't taste the brine..........you will want to add Tequila.....LOL....been there.

I'm not sure if Kevin from Sicalco (Hinsdale, IL) is still on here or if they are still a sponsor, but check with them to see if they can get you better pricing.


----------



## Kubota 8540

liquidchloride;1838594 said:


> Kubota
> 
> will 125 gallons melt over 1/2 inch of snow at say 15-20 degrees--do you plow first


If I can get a blade full across the lot I plow. More $$$$ then spray......more $$$$...then hopefully repeat?

I have played with it quite a bit, I have seen and had it melt an inch of fluff.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Ice Patrol;1838608 said:


> Question for the guys making bulk brine..... Has anyone added restaurant grade molasses to their mix to make it tacky so it will bind to pavements prior to a storm? I'm thinking I could boil the molasses and add to the brine as a hot liquid.
> 
> I can get 5 gallons for $26.00 which makes it easy to experiment with and I thought this might give me extra holding power in our typically rainy/wet snow events in Maryland.
> 
> Also, any ideas on adding a color additive to the brine so the customer gets the sense that I'm putting down something other than water. Just a marketing thing for some of my residential customers, not commercial accounts.
> 
> Thanks,
> Craig


Nope, sure havent but sounds interesting, try it on YOUR lot then let us know?

I built a trailer spray system for a contractor that added POND dye? Red! Scared me. But I guess it works. Said it dilutes out? Blaze orange or flourescent green would be cool.....lol


----------



## GSS LLC

well. i have my sprayer setup i made 2 years ago but havent really used. guess with salt situations this year, i might put it to work. i can get cal chloride for 1/gal. i think i priced it out and making the brine would avg out to .30 a gallon? if i remember correctly


----------



## NuverPlawd

Don't know if my statement wasn't received well, wasn't my intention to insult. Have all the respect in the world for what you do, the way you and others on this site share. It's a great part of why I take such pride in offering snow and ice mgmt to our customers. The science of it. Without folks like yourself and others we wouldn't advance.

There is a lot to this here liquid business, chemical acquisitions (availability & pricing) has been tricky for me.

Notes:
I had a bear of a time yesterday twisting my two final main hoses to the pump. Went against all logic to get 2 more sets of cams. Lol.

Note to self: Going. To. Go. Get. Cams. ~$80.

While I am posting...

I've been searching for a good set of hand tools for this new season.

What are everyone's must have in the bag? How do you find that tool is used best?

I'm especially interested in surface temp testers. I have a cheapy harbor freight... They all are off by a varying degree. Do you subtract to the lowest possible and assume? Which one did you splurge on?


----------



## NuverPlawd

I'm trying to deal with sicalco, closest to me is WV. Great on the phone, still waiting on quotes. Must be patient. Must be patient. Must be patient. Waaaaaa.

Lol.

Since I asked the question I'll go first.

I don't have a bag. My truck is a mess. I carry everything. 2 extra pairs of socks? Reflective vests? I might even have some grass seed in there by then. Who knows when you mix shady select with 90/10 it may create the super brine we have all been waiting for!

As far as liquids I'll be new to it, which is why I ask this question here. 

What kind of tools for unclogging your sprayer? If that's possible? 

What's a nightmare night you had out there with spraying and how did you solve it. If it happened to you, Better believe it will happen to me on my first night... and I don't think grass seed will help.


----------



## Meathammer

Hey Kubota,

Im new to this site I cannot believe I never knew it existed. I want to take my company into liquids this year and need some help. Ive read the liquid sprayer thread for almost 3 days looking for info. It seems you are a guru. I plan to build my own since it consists of a tank, engine, pump, hoses, valves etc. I think shopping price is around 2 grand. Everyone is selling them for around $5k. Maybe you can help me or charge me a small fee for diagrams or instructions etc? The properties I take care of is about 12 total acres that are looking for pretreating this year with liquids. Any help would be appreciated. 
Thank you,
J


----------



## 86 CJ

Well....After talking to some of you on this forum about Liquid melting solutions, Sprayers and Brine makers, I think its time to venture into a project for this winter season.

My buddy Ice Patrol and I are looking to build a machine for my truck to use on all of my accounts this year as well as build our own Brine making system to supply us through the season. If all goes well and its a success, we will sell product and help anyone who wants to venture into the Liquids around our area. I know a bunch of landscapers around here that have never used liquid or tried it out, so we shall see....The only people I see around here that use it is the STATE for pre-treatment.

Here is our first purchase on a CL find......

We found (2) 500g tanks, dirty on the outside, new on the inside, and (1) brand new 150g tank off an old farm down the road for $450.00

We will get them cleaned up and start ordering parts soon...

Thanks everyone for the help, will have more questions to come mechanic:


----------



## Kubota 8540

GSS LLC;1838961 said:


> well. i have my sprayer setup i made 2 years ago but havent really used. guess with salt situations this year, i might put it to work. i can get cal chloride for 1/gal. i think i priced it out and making the brine would avg out to .30 a gallon? if i remember correctly


With today's salt prices you are probably close or right with .25-.30 per gallon.


----------



## Kubota 8540

NuverPlawd;1839509 said:


> Don't know if my statement wasn't received well, wasn't my intention to insult. Have all the respect in the world for what you do, the way you and others on this site share. It's a great part of why I take such pride in offering snow and ice mgmt to our customers. The science of it. Without folks like yourself and others we wouldn't advance.
> 
> There is a lot to this here liquid business, chemical acquisitions (availability & pricing) has been tricky for me.
> 
> Notes:
> I had a bear of a time yesterday twisting my two final main hoses to the pump. Went against all logic to get 2 more sets of cams. Lol.
> 
> Note to self: Going. To. Go. Get. Cams. ~$80.
> 
> While I am posting...
> 
> I've been searching for a good set of hand tools for this new season.
> 
> What are everyone's must have in the bag? How do you find that tool is used best?
> 
> I'm especially interested in surface temp testers. I have a cheapy harbor freight... They all are off by a varying degree. Do you subtract to the lowest possible and assume? Which one did you splurge on?


Surface temp tester? I personally wouldn't spend more than $30 for one. Mine worked fine. Close enough.


----------



## Kubota 8540

NuverPlawd;1839525 said:


> I'm trying to deal with sicalco, closest to me is WV. Great on the phone, still waiting on quotes. Must be patient. Must be patient. Must be patient. Waaaaaa.
> 
> Lol.
> 
> Since I asked the question I'll go first.
> 
> I don't have a bag. My truck is a mess. I carry everything. 2 extra pairs of socks? Reflective vests? I might even have some grass seed in there by then. Who knows when you mix shady select with 90/10 it may create the super brine we have all been waiting for!
> 
> As far as liquids I'll be new to it, which is why I ask this question here.
> 
> What kind of tools for unclogging your sprayer? If that's possible?
> 
> What's a nightmare night you had out there with spraying and how did you solve it. If it happened to you, Better believe it will happen to me on my first night... and I don't think grass seed will help.


Their salesman are great, service is great and even their drivers were great guys. No *****ing or complaining just great service. Hope they can help you out. SICALCO (no I don't get a discount for the free plug) Has been a wonderful company to deal with. But a free lunch sounds good....hint .......hint.

2 clogged nozzles in 5-6 years? Learned to gravity filter all my liquids. Hang up the hose after filling, so no debris sticks to it. Clean in, clean out.! The 2 times I did have a clogged nozzle was when I used well brine to mix with my salt brine. Went back to SICALCO's (cough...cough) Liquidow 32% and no more clogged nozzles.

Grass seed in the 90/10 for grit or traction? Maybe....lol... but that could get expensive.....LOL


----------



## Kubota 8540

Meathammer;1839745 said:


> Hey Kubota,
> 
> Im new to this site I cannot believe I never knew it existed. I want to take my company into liquids this year and need some help. Ive read the liquid sprayer thread for almost 3 days looking for info. It seems you are a guru. I plan to build my own since it consists of a tank, engine, pump, hoses, valves etc. I think shopping price is around 2 grand. Everyone is selling them for around $5k. Maybe you can help me or charge me a small fee for diagrams or instructions etc? The properties I take care of is about 12 total acres that are looking for pretreating this year with liquids. Any help would be appreciated.
> Thank you,
> J


Yes this is quite a site. I have had the opportunity to meet quite a few members all across the country.

Always happy to invoice......LOL.....what do you need to know?

3 days and 72 pages......that's determined!


----------



## Kubota 8540

86 CJ;1839747 said:


> Well....After talking to some of you on this forum about Liquid melting solutions, Sprayers and Brine makers, I think its time to venture into a project for this winter season.
> 
> My buddy Ice Patrol and I are looking to build a machine for my truck to use on all of my accounts this year as well as build our own Brine making system to supply us through the season. If all goes well and its a success, we will sell product and help anyone who wants to venture into the Liquids around our area. I know a bunch of landscapers around here that have never used liquid or tried it out, so we shall see....The only people I see around here that use it is the STATE for pre-treatment.
> 
> Here is our first purchase on a CL find......
> 
> We found (2) 500g tanks, dirty on the outside, new on the inside, and (1) brand new 150g tank off an old farm down the road for $450.00
> 
> We will get them cleaned up and start ordering parts soon...
> 
> Thanks everyone for the help, will have more questions to come mechanic:


When you figure out how to clean up the outside appearance of those tanks, PLEASE let us know. I have had no luck yet, soap/brush, bleach,....etc.


----------



## Do It All Do It Right

NuverPlawd;1839525 said:


> I'm trying to deal with sicalco, closest to me is WV. Great on the phone, still waiting on quotes. Must be patient. Must be patient. Must be patient. Waaaaaa.
> 
> Lol.
> 
> Since I asked the question I'll go first.
> 
> I don't have a bag. My truck is a mess. I carry everything. 2 extra pairs of socks? Reflective vests? I might even have some grass seed in there by then. Who knows when you mix shady select with 90/10 it may create the super brine we have all been waiting for!
> 
> As far as liquids I'll be new to it, which is why I ask this question here.
> 
> What kind of tools for unclogging your sprayer? If that's possible?
> 
> What's a nightmare night you had out there with spraying and how did you solve it. If it happened to you, Better believe it will happen to me on my first night... and I don't think grass seed will help.


Run a banjo 1-1/2" or 2" strainer and have a valve in front of it. Shut it off put on your gloves open the strainer wash it off put it back in and on your way you go. It is nice to strain on the way in but stuff can always fall into your tank.


----------



## NuverPlawd

Kubota 8540;1839968 said:


> Surface temp tester? I personally wouldn't spend more than $30 for one. Mine worked fine. Close enough.


What's "mine"? What's Close enough?

I was thinking fermenting the seed and spraying that..lol


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Kubota 8540;1832960 said:


> NorthernSvc's......."unless / or really cold then we apply granular"
> 
> I think your statement from the above post is right on........BUT, last winter when it was extremely cold, I had time to experiment a bit. My 90/10 salt brine/cal chloride stopped working a +5F so I took the 200 gallons 90/10 and added 200 gallons 32% cal chloride and had complete melts easily below 0F
> 
> Not sure what ratio that would end up to be, but it worked great.


What a month been too busy wrapping up power washing payupFinally getting back to the thread ....

I have always kicked around doing a stronger mix, but I pay too much for my liquid calcium chloride, so I have never seen it as cost effective .... I buy granular calcium chloride by the truck load so it's much cheaper for me...plus I made a skating rink once when I was playing around, and with how busy we were last year just didn't have as much time to play around with new stuff... I have increased my liquid storage capacity this year and am finally looking at getting a mini bulk shipment of calcium chloride ( I have always done it in 250 g totes in the past...) and so should be able to get it for a lot cheaper... With granular pricing going the way it is it might actually end up being cheaper to spray straight calcium chloride:laughing:


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Ice Patrol;1838608 said:


> Question for the guys making bulk brine..... Has anyone added restaurant grade molasses to their mix to make it tacky so it will bind to pavements prior to a storm? I'm thinking I could boil the molasses and add to the brine as a hot liquid.
> 
> I can get 5 gallons for $26.00 which makes it easy to experiment with and I thought this might give me extra holding power in our typically rainy/wet snow events in Maryland.
> 
> Also, any ideas on adding a color additive to the brine so the customer gets the sense that I'm putting down something other than water. Just a marketing thing for some of my residential customers, not commercial accounts.
> 
> Thanks,
> Craig


No but I do know of a local company who was using a molasses based product a few years ago and they had a huge problem with the dear coming out and licking up the product!! Also depending on where you are spraying keep in mind tracking issues into a building..


----------



## NuverPlawd

NorthernSvc's;1840663 said:


> No but I do know of a local company who was using a molasses based product a few years ago and they had a huge problem with the dear coming out and licking up the product!! Also depending on where you are spraying keep in mind tracking issues into a building..


Lololllollol!


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Kubota 8540;1838718 said:


> If I can get a blade full across the lot I plow. More $$$$ then spray......more $$$$...then hopefully repeat?
> 
> I have played with it quite a bit, I have seen and had it melt an inch of fluff.


Thumbs Up. Yup yup - for the most part I always plow first if I can, unless it's during the day / close to sunup and it's supposed to be sunny, and there isn't much on the ground... 
A lot depends on the moisture content of the snow... The "wetter" the snow the more brine it will take to burn it off...

You can spray and pray but I don't like to have to come back so I just windrow real quick and spray... It's also better for the pavement and environment


----------



## NorthernSvc's

NuverPlawd;1839525 said:


> I'm trying to deal with sicalco, closest to me is WV. Great on the phone, still waiting on quotes. Must be patient. Must be patient. Must be patient. Waaaaaa.
> 
> Lol.
> 
> Since I asked the question I'll go first.
> 
> I don't have a bag. My truck is a mess. I carry everything. 2 extra pairs of socks? Reflective vests? I might even have some grass seed in there by then. Who knows when you mix shady select with 90/10 it may create the super brine we have all been waiting for!
> 
> As far as liquids I'll be new to it, which is why I ask this question here.
> 
> What kind of tools for unclogging your sprayer? If that's possible?
> 
> What's a nightmare night you had out there with spraying and how did you solve it. If it happened to you, Better believe it will happen to me on my first night... and I don't think grass seed will help.


I keep a small bag with extra sprayer tips and a spare filter... I have had my system clog before - before I started letting my batches settle for a week before using them.... Big lesson there!!!! Now not so much of an issue of it clogging, but I have been Known to snap a tip off here and there... I building a deflector for my boom this year, it's on my to do list...

Nightmare night? When I first started I had no clue what I was doing, I thought liquids could replace granular, so I sold my v box and built a spray rig... I had no backup just a small tailgate spreader.. Well one night I found out the hard way about what can go wrong- annnnndddddd I made a skating rink.... Spreading 2 yards of salt through a snowex 1075 sucks balls... Especially when you are not ready for it... My sidewalk crew ended up spreading a low by hand as well... So lesson learned I studied up a bit more, bought a really nice infrared laser guided bin ford 5000 model thermometer for reading ground temps... And bought a v box spreader for my other truck just in case


----------



## NuverPlawd

Kubota 8540;1839971 said:


> Their salesman are great, service is great and even their drivers were great guys. No *****ing or complaining just great service. Hope they can help you out. SICALCO (no I don't get a discount for the free plug) Has been a wonderful company to deal with. But a free lunch sounds good....hint ....


I don't have the ability to deal with a "salesman". Closest I get is dealing with the "administrator assistant" lady. The owner is always out on golf "meetings"? But she has said he said. It's all good come grab what you want. Asked for the same email quote twice and still haven't received it. been 2 weeks.


----------



## NuverPlawd

NorthernSvc's;1840673 said:


> I keep a small bag with extra sprayer tips and a spare filter... I have had my system clog before - before I started letting my batches settle for a week before using them.... Big lesson there!!!! Now not so much of an issue of it clogging, but I have been Known to snap a tip off here and there... I building a deflector for my boom this year, it's on my to do list...
> 
> Nightmare night? When I first started I had no clue what I was doing, I thought liquids could replace granular, so I sold my v box and built a spray rig... I had no backup just a small tailgate spreader.. Well one night I found out the hard way about what can go wrong- annnnndddddd I made a skating rink.... Spreading 2 yards of salt through a snowex 1075 sucks balls... Especially when you are not ready for it... My sidewalk crew ended up spreading a low by hand as well... So lesson learned I studied up a bit more, bought a really nice infrared laser guided bin ford 5000 model thermometer for reading ground temps... And bought a v box spreader for my other truck just in case


Thanks for the response.

Good "tip" ))

I will still have my fully loaded tgs07 with a nozzle to pre wet just in case. We get weird temp fluctuations around here. A lot of hills and pockets of weird wind. Westerly winds and all. North Polar vortex, lake effects. Lol. Wtf.

Bin ford 5000 I'll look into that. Thanks again.


----------



## Ice Patrol

NorthernSvc's;1840663 said:


> No but I do know of a local company who was using a molasses based product a few years ago and they had a huge problem with the dear coming out and licking up the product!! Also depending on where you are spraying keep in mind tracking issues into a building..


Good point! Now I need to have signs made for liability issues.

"Caution pavement lickers ahead" LOL


----------



## Kubota 8540

NuverPlawd;1840676 said:


> I don't have the ability to deal with a "salesman". Closest I get is dealing with the "administrator assistant" lady. The owner is always out on golf "meetings"? But she has said he said. It's all good come grab what you want. Asked for the same email quote twice and still haven't received it. been 2 weeks.


Hmmmm.......dont know what to tell you. I left a voice mail for Kevin @ Sicalco Friday evening, he called me back this morning just for a chat? No sale either.


----------



## 86 CJ

Question:

For those of you that have used both types:

How would two boomless fan nozzles compare to like 8-10 stream nozzles on a boom, when there are temp differences in a storm where you would need a heavier application to melt ice?


----------



## Kubota 8540

86 CJ;1841590 said:


> Question:
> 
> For those of you that have used both types:
> 
> How would two boomless fan nozzles compare to like 8-10 stream nozzles on a boom, when there are temp differences in a storm where you would need a heavier application to melt ice?


The only reason I could think of to use 2 boomless fan spray nozzles would be to cover more than 20-25' in a pass. Other than that TeeJet SJ3 or TeeJet single stream should cover your needs?

I only use the sj-3 tips, 8-10 of those in roughly 8' to cover 11-12' on the center section and 4 single stream adjustable ball on each side shooting out another 4-5 feet. Total with stream type = 20-22'?


----------



## 86 CJ

Kubota 8540;1841621 said:


> The only reason I could think of to use 2 boomless fan spray nozzles would be to cover more than 20-25' in a pass. Other than that TeeJet SJ3 or TeeJet single stream should cover your needs?
> 
> I only use the sj-3 tips, 8-10 of those in roughly 8' to cover 11-12' on the center section and 4 single stream adjustable ball on each side shooting out another 4-5 feet. Total with stream type = 20-22'?


Thanks Jim

I was not sure of the ground coverage difference in saturation between running a boomless or spray nozzle over the 8-10 single stream tips.


----------



## Meathammer

*Follow up*



Kubota 8540;1840002 said:


> Yes this is quite a site. I have had the opportunity to meet quite a few members all across the country.
> 
> Always happy to invoice......LOL.....what do you need to know?
> 
> 3 days and 72 pages......that's determined!


I want to build a sprayer. 300-400 gallon. I need a parts list. Im mostly confused on the sprayer/boom and application rates with the jets. I got the idea of 5.5 hp honda engine, banjo poly pump, elec solenoids. I would like to have a 3 zone spray boom. 8 feet then 2 other zones for left side and right side with on off capabilities from in cab so I don't blast parked cars. Ive called a few places nothing cheaper than $3500 delivered. How much would you charge me to supply a parts list and diagram of all parts and to be a consultant during the experiment haha. BTW I sold liquid pre treating to 13 acres of commercial parking lots in DC. So time to get things moving from here. Make my own brine or order from PA for $.99 cents a gallon for 32% calcium. Is it possible to speak out of the forum? Is it possible to use all liquids and avoid spreading rock salt?

Thanks Meat hammer.


----------



## ultimate09

I bought a turbo turf set up and am more than happy with it. They sell their boom separately from there sprayers for $395 for single lane up $995 for three lane and three way flip nozzles. This boom has the three way nozzles, pencil, fan, and heavy fan, and two extender nozzles on each side for close to 30 foot coverage. They also sell there in cab controller separately to control left, right, center and your pressure. Just go to www.icecontrolsprayers.com and click options to buy anything separate.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Meathammer;1841689 said:


> I want to build a sprayer. 300-400 gallon. I need a parts list. Im mostly confused on the sprayer/boom and application rates with the jets. I got the idea of 5.5 hp honda engine, banjo poly pump, elec solenoids. I would like to have a 3 zone spray boom. 8 feet then 2 other zones for left side and right side with on off capabilities from in cab so I don't blast parked cars. Ive called a few places nothing cheaper than $3500 delivered. How much would you charge me to supply a parts list and diagram of all parts and to be a consultant during the experiment haha. BTW I sold liquid pre treating to 13 acres of commercial parking lots in DC. So time to get things moving from here. Make my own brine or order from PA for $.99 cents a gallon for 32% calcium. Is it possible to speak out of the forum? Is it possible to use all liquids and avoid spreading rock salt?
> 
> Thanks Meat hammer.


Depending on the options for the $3,500 sprayer, that is a fair price. As you described, Honda/pump, plumbing and 3 zone boom $3500-$4000 built ready to spray is fair. Your cost to build? roughly $2,200?

Send me an email to: [email protected]


----------



## Do It All Do It Right

1-1/2" main boom supply line and control valve to put down product sooner than later.


----------



## 86 CJ

Meathammer;1841689 said:


> I want to build a sprayer. 300-400 gallon. I need a parts list. Im mostly confused on the sprayer/boom and application rates with the jets. I got the idea of 5.5 hp honda engine, banjo poly pump, elec solenoids. I would like to have a 3 zone spray boom. 8 feet then 2 other zones for left side and right side with on off capabilities from in cab so I don't blast parked cars. Ive called a few places nothing cheaper than $3500 delivered. How much would you charge me to supply a parts list and diagram of all parts and to be a consultant during the experiment haha. BTW I sold liquid pre treating to 13 acres of commercial parking lots in DC. So time to get things moving from here. Make my own brine or order from PA for $.99 cents a gallon for 32% calcium. Is it possible to speak out of the forum? Is it possible to use all liquids and avoid spreading rock salt?
> 
> Thanks Meat hammer.


Hey Meat

Glad to hear someone else in the area is getting into the Liquids. Ice Patrol and I are in the middle of our Brine maker build and will be using and selling local to others this season if all works out. I am about 30 min from DC, near Ft.Meade. Drop me a line if you want to talk about your Brine/Calcium supply for the winter, we can work something out for you since you are not to far from us. Since you can't Private Message yet....

Email me a [email protected]

John


----------



## 86 CJ

I think I am pulling the trigger on two of these today..

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200426728_200426728

One for the truck setup and one for the Brine Maker with Ice Patrol.

Kubota...Thanks for talking me out of Electric, I think this will be a better way to go.


----------



## NuverPlawd

86 CJ;1841996 said:


> I think I am pulling the trigger on two of these today..
> 
> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200426728_200426728
> 
> One for the truck setup and one for the Brine Maker with Ice Patrol.
> 
> Kubota...Thanks for talking me out of Electric, I think this will be a better way to go.


You might want to make sure your pump engine is electric start. That way you're not jumping in and out to recoil start 'er. even if the engine doesn't have the starter on it yet, just make sure its capable so you can add it later.

Obviously doesn't matter for a brine making pump.


----------



## NuverPlawd

I tried to send this a few days ago, I don't know if a moderator bounced it or not...



Kubota 8540;1841051 said:


> Hmmmm.......dont know what to tell you. I left a voice mail for Kevin @ Sicalco Friday evening, he called me back this morning just for a chat? No sale either.


I'm bad... I left a voicemail for Kevin as well (thanks, no response yet by the way). Got my quote from WV.. $1.59/gal (tax incl.) (((( Picked up.

I'd be paying about $28/ 100gal 90/10. Still right around spreading bulk, but far more effective... and stretches my salt reserve.

I have 50 tons reserved this year, if I am strict about my usage and stick to brine and 90/10... Its like having around 75 tons which is not possible this year... its not there to have.


----------



## Do It All Do It Right

NuverPlawd;1842155 said:


> You might want to make sure your pump engine is electric start. That way you're not jumping in and out to recoil start 'er. even if the engine doesn't have the starter on it yet, just make sure its capable so you can add it later.
> 
> Obviously doesn't matter for a brine making pump.


What is everyone using for electric valves?


----------



## NuverPlawd

Do It All Do It Right;1842240 said:


> What is everyone using for electric valves?


Too rich for my blood. yet.


----------



## CowboysLC_DE

Do It All Do It Right;1842240 said:


> What is everyone using for electric valves?


I'm still looking around, nothing with 2" ports at a decent price. I may just throw a guy in the bed to turn the manual ball valve so as to not waste the precious brine.

Michael


----------



## ultimate09

Neverplawed, try Calcium Chloride Sales in Grove City, PA. (724) 458-7591 I haven't purchased from them yet, but they gave me the best quote and guaranteed they would always have it all winter long as they supply the DOT.


----------



## 86 CJ

NuverPlawd;1842155 said:


> You might want to make sure your pump engine is electric start. That way you're not jumping in and out to recoil start 'er. even if the engine doesn't have the starter on it yet, just make sure its capable so you can add it later.
> 
> Obviously doesn't matter for a brine making pump.


Thanks for the info

I will probably be using a 3 way 12v Ball valve w/remote to cab from Dultmeier.

This way I can just let the motor run on idle the whole time and just control the on /off from the valve to Boom or whatever else I want to hook up.


----------



## NuverPlawd

86 CJ;1842438 said:


> Thanks for the info
> 
> I will probably be using a 3 way 12v Ball valve w/remote to cab from Dultmeier.
> 
> This way I can just let the motor run on idle the whole time and just control the on /off from the valve to Boom or whatever else I want to hook up.


How many guys run that idle setup? I get nervous about the thought. I guess $200 fir a starter or 300 for a wireless valve. Same dif.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

thats the way i do it... 3 way valve... when its not spraying its recirculating... dont see what the issue is...


----------



## born2farm

We just run a single electric valve with a T right before it. Our recirculation line is ran to that T with a manual valve to control the amount of agitation when boom is on. When electric valve closes, all liquid goes back to tank


----------



## NuverPlawd

CowboysLC_DE;1842332 said:


> I'm still looking around, nothing with 2" ports at a decent price. I may just throw a guy in the bed to turn the manual ball valve so as to not waste the precious brine.
> 
> Michael


Send one my way.


----------



## NuverPlawd

ultimate09;1842352 said:


> Neverplawed, try Calcium Chloride Sales in Grove City, PA. (724) 458-7591 I haven't purchased from them yet, but they gave me the best quote and guaranteed they would always have it all winter long as they supply the DOT.


WillDO Thanks.


----------



## NuverPlawd

Kubota:

Kevin returned my call yesterday.

After our conversation, I contended "it is only fitting that he (Kevin) would be the way he is. One associates with like-minded individuals"... people who genuinely enjoy what they do and see the value in sharing facts.

Unfortunately, my prices with Sicalco are what they are.

Truthfully, however disappointing the news- it didn't seem so bad coming from him... Now that's a good salesman.


----------



## Kubota 8540

NuverPlawd;1843561 said:


> Kubota:
> 
> Kevin returned my call yesterday.
> 
> After our conversation, I contended "it is only fitting that he (Kevin) would be the way he is. One associates with like-minded individuals"... people who genuinely enjoy what they do and see the value in sharing facts.
> 
> Unfortunately, my prices with Sicalco are what they are.
> 
> Truthfully, however disappointing the news- it didn't seem so bad coming from him... Now that's a good salesman.


He told me they were swamped with calls and demand is way high this season.


----------



## NuverPlawd

I won't be surprised if liquids backfire on us an cause salt prices to skyrocket.


----------



## Metro Lawn

For those ooking for liquid chloride. My supplier has started delivering to much of the midwest and all the way to the east coast. Contact Brad at Michigan Chloride Sales 800-286-7312

I have been using liquids for almost 20 years and never had an issue with his product nor has it ever harmed any of the sprayers we build or sell.


----------



## NuverPlawd

ultimate09;1842352 said:


> Neverplawed, try Calcium Chloride Sales in Grove City, PA. (724) 458-7591 I haven't purchased from them yet, but they gave me the best quote and guaranteed they would always have it all winter long as they supply the DOT.


 Same price for Tetra (needs research) 34% 3 times closer. THANKS.


----------



## NuverPlawd

Metro Lawn;1843911 said:


> For those ooking for liquid chloride. My supplier has started delivering to much of the midwest and all the way to the east coast. Contact Brad at Michigan Chloride Sales 800-286-7312
> 
> I have been using liquids for almost 20 years and never had an issue with his product nor has it ever harmed any of the sprayers we build or sell.


Their product from a well. They claim that their product possesses 19%-20% Calcium, 3.3% Magnesium, 4.5% Sodium and 1% Potassium. The salesman said theirs is not a byproduct of fracking, or drilling for oil-so they do not have impurities.

I'm more partial to having a single chemical instead of a brew myself. Price is important, but if you have to apply more product you're defeating its initial cost. @ $.80 a gallon at an equivalent distance to 34% Calcium @$1.60 its tough. I am paying for water, 4.5% sodium 3.3% mag and 1% pot (teehee)-and half the amount of calcium @ half the price. I swear this game is rigged. Only way you can make this work is if your name rhymes with Yoda.

:crying:


----------



## Metro Lawn

NuverPlawd;1844833 said:


> Their product from a well. They claim that their product possesses 19%-20% Calcium, 3.3% Magnesium, 4.5% Sodium and 1% Potassium. The salesman said theirs is not a byproduct of fracking, or drilling for oil-so they do not have impurities.
> 
> I'm more partial to having a single chemical instead of a brew myself. Price is important, but if you have to apply more product you're defeating its initial cost. @ $.80 a gallon at an equivalent distance to 34% Calcium @$1.60 its tough. I am paying for water, 4.5% sodium 3.3% mag and 1% pot (teehee)-and half the amount of calcium @ half the price. I swear this game is rigged. Only way you can make this work is if your name rhymes with Yoda.
> 
> :crying:


Well here it is 35 cents per gallon delivered and 15 cents if you pick it up. I have used it for close to 20 years and it works well. I'm not sure whos trying to sell 34% but from what Dow told me, you cant exceed 32% or the chloride will seperate. I heard that several other places too. Good luck in your search.


----------



## NuverPlawd

Metro Lawn;1845148 said:


> Well here it is 35 cents per gallon delivered and 15 cents if you pick it up. I have used it for close to 20 years and it works well. I'm not sure whos trying to sell 34% but from what Dow told me, you cant exceed 32% or the chloride will seperate. I heard that several other places too. Good luck in your search.


They use 35 for dust control? 31-34 same price figured I'd get it a little more concentrated. If I could get it for .15 that's a gimmie. From what I understand the guys that use michigan salt are firing it straight, is that what you do?

In 20 years you must have seen some harsh temperatures how's it operate under those circumstances? Can it be diluted with brine?

I'm not shooting it down, it is still something I'll try.. it's tough here in the middle of nowhere. All chemicals are tripled. It's tough to justify purchase of a brine blend @.80 w/2 hr round trip.


----------



## Metro Lawn

NuverPlawd;1845171 said:


> They use 35 for dust control? 31-34 same price figured I'd get it a little more concentrated. If I could get it for .15 that's a gimmie. From what I understand the guys that use michigan salt are firing it straight, is that what you do?
> 
> In 20 years you must have seen some harsh temperatures how's it operate under those circumstances? Can it be diluted with brine?
> 
> I'm not shooting it down, it is still something I'll try.. it's tough here in the middle of nowhere. All chemicals are tripled. It's tough to justify purchase of a brine blend @.80 w/2 hr round trip.


I called to verify that 32% is the highest you can use and as I thought I was right. Any more and it seperates and becomes crystal and a bunch of other nasty stuff. We used a hydrometer on MCS brine today and got 31.5% You can buy whatever you want but someone it not telling you the truth.


----------



## terrapro

NuverPlawd;1842245 said:


> Too rich for my blood. yet.





CowboysLC_DE;1842332 said:


> I'm still looking around, nothing with 2" ports at a decent price. I may just throw a guy in the bed to turn the manual ball valve so as to not waste the precious brine.
> 
> Michael


Why in the world would you need a 2" electric valve?!

I use Teejet 3/4" straight to the boom, puts down plenty of liquid...about $100 per

These are new to me and are under $100, buy a couple to keep in the glove box. 
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/11839


----------



## terrapro

86 CJ;1842438 said:


> Thanks for the info
> 
> I will probably be using a 3 way 12v Ball valve w/remote to cab from Dultmeier.
> 
> This way I can just let the motor run on idle the whole time and just control the on /off from the valve to Boom or whatever else I want to hook up.


Get as crazy as you guys want with all the fancy parts but I have seen lots of guys spend all their dough and end up not being able to handle liquid.
All you need is a $300 2" trash pump, a $100 12 volt 3/4" electric solenoid valve, a $400 tank, and whatever extra plumbing. Drill out holes in a 3/4" or 1" pipe every 12-16" and you can spray 5-7 mph and put down 40-60gpa.
Don't over complicate it especially at first until you figure out you even like liquid.


----------



## Metro Lawn

Cole, you're the man...

When you want to spend some of that money, talk to me about our newest creation. At full throttle we had almost 80' of coverage. 50' at 40% as in the video.


----------



## terrapro

Metro Lawn;1845519 said:


> Cole, you're the man...
> 
> When you want to spend some of that money, talk to me about our newest creation. At full throttle we had almost 80' of coverage. 50' at 40% as in the video.


LOL just trying to help the new blood out a bit. I for some reason still haven't messed with boomless nozzles even though I have been talking about them for years...I am assuming that is for pretreat? Message me if you don't want to share the secrets out loud 

Hey everyone you guys don't bother with the hassle and just put in an order for one of Johns units and you will be good to go right off the truck! He even uses wireless solenoid valves so no getting out of the truck 

Oh and yes on MCS!!! Same as I use, never failed for me.


----------



## Daddyworbucks

Looks cool but I'm sticking with my salt spreader 30 foot spread prevails.


----------



## NuverPlawd

Metro Lawn;1845420 said:


> I called to verify that 32% is the highest you can use and as I thought I was right. Any more and it seperates and becomes crystal and a bunch of other nasty stuff. We used a hydrometer on MCS brine today and got 31.5% You can buy whatever you want but someone it not telling you the truth.


Nobody told me anything to not tell me the truth. I assumed I could dilute the 34% to 32% and then mix it to what ever I wanted to in my brine. I'll certainly double check, thanks for the heads up.

Correct me if I'm wrong (again apparently) but your hydrometer is measuring the specific gravity of your solution... Not what amounts of what kinds of salt. If altogether your getting 31.5... that's a salty brine... but the problem is I have no idea what's in that brine. As we all know if that's straight sodium at 31.5 you'd be making a skating rink at way over 25 degrees F chart doesn't go that high). 
So it has to have other chemicals in it... but what and how much? The person I spoke to at Michigan Salt gave those percentages to me, I trust him, he sounded like a nice guy. Not bad percentages, again, nothing against the stuff, I've never tried it.

Till the winter I've only tested to make sure the brine I'll be making doesn't freeze at 32.

It'll be awhile before I start doing fancy things like having crazy booms with wings on em. With solenoids n ****. Wtf boom less nozzle (how's the liquid supposed to get in there?)
Ya'll are talking about 50-60'.. I'm worried about my spray bar dragging off the ground it'll be so low.

Jesus.


----------



## Do It All Do It Right

Metro Lawn;1845519 said:


> Cole, you're the man...
> 
> When you want to spend some of that money, talk to me about our newest creation. At full throttle we had almost 80' of coverage. 50' at 40% as in the video.


That guy looks familiar!


----------



## Do It All Do It Right

NuverPlawd;1844833 said:


> Their product from a well. They claim that their product possesses 19%-20% Calcium, 3.3% Magnesium, 4.5% Sodium and 1% Potassium. The salesman said theirs is not a byproduct of fracking, or drilling for oil-so they do not have impurities.
> 
> I'm more partial to having a single chemical instead of a brew myself. Price is important, but if you have to apply more product you're defeating its initial cost. @ $.80 a gallon at an equivalent distance to 34% Calcium @$1.60 its tough. I am paying for water, 4.5% sodium 3.3% mag and 1% pot (teehee)-and half the amount of calcium @ half the price. I swear this game is rigged. Only way you can make this work is if your name rhymes with Yoda.
> 
> :crying:


It's a natural brew. Shoot the water into and out pops the brine. We haven't had any trouble with it but I am told if the percentage of salt is too high you crystallize. The product is used in oil production and there are some dubious suppliers that sell the product after it has been used for such purposes.


----------



## terrapro

NuverPlawd;1845677 said:


> Nobody told me anything to not tell me the truth. I assumed I could dilute the 34% to 32% and then mix it to what ever I wanted to in my brine. I'll certainly double check, thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong (again apparently) but your hydrometer is measuring the specific gravity of your solution... Not what amounts of what kinds of salt. If altogether your getting 31.5... that's a salty brine... but the problem is I have no idea what's in that brine. As we all know if that's straight sodium at 31.5 you'd be making a skating rink at way over 25 degrees F chart doesn't go that high).
> So it has to have other chemicals in it... but what and how much? The person I spoke to at Michigan Salt gave those percentages to me, I trust him, he sounded like a nice guy. Not bad percentages, again, nothing against the stuff, I've never tried it.
> 
> Till the winter I've only tested to make sure the brine I'll be making doesn't freeze at 32.
> 
> It'll be awhile before I start doing fancy things like having crazy booms with wings on em. With solenoids n ****. Wtf boom less nozzle (how's the liquid supposed to get in there?)
> Ya'll are talking about 50-60'.. I'm worried about my spray bar dragging off the ground it'll be so low.
> 
> Jesus.


Kubota who started this thread on here does a 90/10 mix, 90% sodium brine solution and 10% LCC. He makes his own salt brine and buys the LCC. He also makes sprayers and brine mixing systems for other people and hes done some for municipalities. Did you read up on all his info?
LOTS of stuff on here from all us who spray Thumbs Up

Heres a boomless nozzle 
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608017006926432176&pid=1.7


----------



## 86 CJ

For those of you that are making there own Brine solution:

If you don't have much room for bulk salt storage and need to use Bagged salt, what do you prefer?

Solar Salt (blue or Yellow bag) or Bagged Rock Salt by the pallet?


----------



## Kubota 8540

86 CJ;1846042 said:


> For those of you that are making there own Brine solution:
> 
> If you don't have much room for bulk salt storage and need to use Bagged salt, what do you prefer?
> 
> Solar Salt (blue or Yellow bag) or Bagged Rock Salt by the pallet?


I like the easy questions.....I like the Solar salt better.....cleaner and dissolves faster.


----------



## 86 CJ

Kubota 8540;1846084 said:


> I like the easy questions.....I like the Solar salt better.....cleaner and dissolves faster.


Perfect answer...Thumbs Up

Thanks Jim


----------



## Superior L & L

terrapro;1846039 said:


> Kubota who started this thread on here does a 90/10 mix, 90% sodium brine solution and 10% LCC. He makes his own salt brine and buys the LCC. He also makes sprayers and brine mixing systems for other people and hes done some for municipalities. Did you read up on all his info?
> LOTS of stuff on here from all us who spray Thumbs Up
> 
> Heres a boomless nozzle
> http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608017006926432176&pid=1.7


What are the specs/brand of that boomless nozzle?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Superior L & L;1847320 said:


> What are the specs/brand of that boomless nozzle?


Might be these?

http://www.dultmeier.com/prod-info.php?info=twMM-XT010-Nozzle-Chart.jpg


----------



## Metro Lawn

What do you think of this system?

The new BYOT sprayer. The sprayer you won't out grow. Sold without a tank, it is made to be used with any size tank you would like from 25 to 2500 gallons. It still features wireless controls, 3 lane coverage, aluminum frame, aluminum spray bar, 90' hose reel with spray gun, self filling, Honda power, and much more. We are also going to make another unit that will do 5+ lanes. Just looking for some feedback.


----------



## NuverPlawd

Oh yes I read a lot. 

I'm in a situation where I have no storage space. I currently rent a 8×40 abandoned trailer. We have to ladder up to the storage! Lol

In a few days I'll post some pictures of the "situation" I am in. Certainly if I can make brine in this situation anyone can. I am using bulk salt stored in 5 gal buckets.

I go to make a pick up I line my bed with 5 gal containers ( 4 columns of 6). He dumps into my bed the buckets get filled.

Each bucket holds 50-60 lbs. 

I'll definitely get to the insane units you guys are talking about.. When it makes sense for my company. Can't wait. 5+lanes wtf.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Metro Lawn;1847485 said:


> What do you think of this system?
> 
> The new BYOT sprayer. The sprayer you won't out grow. Sold without a tank, it is made to be used with any size tank you would like from 25 to 2500 gallons. It still features wireless controls, 3 lane coverage, aluminum frame, aluminum spray bar, 90' hose reel with spray gun, self filling, Honda power, and much more. We are also going to make another unit that will do 5+ lanes. Just looking for some feedback.


looks like a really good idea...

how much?


----------



## Metro Lawn

NorthernSvc's;1847770 said:


> looks like a really good idea...
> 
> how much?


5495.00 which is only a few hundred more than a snowex electric single lane hard wired unit.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

Metro Lawn;1847786 said:


> 5495.00 which is only a few hundred more than a snowex electric single lane hard wired unit.


blank space .... wish they had a delete tool...


----------



## MF 5455

Metro Lawn;1847485 said:


> What do you think of this system?
> 
> The new BYOT sprayer. The sprayer you won't out grow. Sold without a tank, it is made to be used with any size tank you would like from 25 to 2500 gallons. It still features wireless controls, 3 lane coverage, aluminum frame, aluminum spray bar, 90' hose reel with spray gun, self filling, Honda power, and much more. We are also going to make another unit that will do 5+ lanes. Just looking for some feedback.


Hi guys...been a while.

Just wanting to add some pics. of the sprayer unit I built this summer / fall.
Suppose to have been a 500 gallon system, but when i got the tank home, it is a 625 gallon. I purchased some of the parts from another individual, and did the hook up system on my own. So far...so good.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

MF 5455;1849065 said:


> Hi guys...been a while.
> 
> Just wanting to add some pics. of the sprayer unit I built this summer / fall.
> Suppose to have been a 500 gallon system, but when i got the tank home, it is a 625 gallon. I purchased some of the parts from another individual, and did the hook up system on my own. So far...so good.


Shes a beut walt!

Love the hydraulic pump $$$ Im guessing you already had a central system on their from a previous system?


----------



## MF 5455

NorthernSvc's;1849149 said:


> Shes a beut walt!
> 
> Love the hydraulic pump $$$ Im guessing you already had a central system on their from a previous system?


The central hydraulics were in truck when I purchased it. I have a SS material spreader for under the gate.

The hydraulic driven pump, electric valves, and spray bar I purchased from another individual who was no longer doing snow removal. I purchased the tank, most of the plumbing, and put the electrical connector box on. The controller I was using on my tractor/3 point hitch for last 2 years. I think there is good potential here. Not anxious for winter, but would like to do some spraying to see how it performs.


----------



## Ice Patrol

MF 5455;1849065 said:


> Hi guys...been a while.
> 
> Just wanting to add some pics. of the sprayer unit I built this summer / fall.
> Suppose to have been a 500 gallon system, but when i got the tank home, it is a 625 gallon. I purchased some of the parts from another individual, and did the hook up system on my own. So far...so good.


Can you please post some specs for the hydraulic / water pump unit on your setup? Specifically I would like to know the flow rate required for the pump so I can match to my setup.

Thanks


----------



## MF 5455

Ice Patrol;1849510 said:


> Can you please post some specs for the hydraulic / water pump unit on your setup? Specifically I would like to know the flow rate required for the pump so I can match to my setup.
> 
> Thanks


Yes sir. The hydraulic motor does not have any numbers on it. The hypro pump does. Hypro lists the unit as a 9304C-HM5C. I don't believe this unit is sold as this now. You can either use a 9303..., or I believe the substitute for the one I have is a 9306... Hypro says it needs a max. 17 gpm of oil to use it. I don't have any numbers for you from the truck hydraulics, in terms of how much oil it pumps, but I do know that it created plenty of oil to run this system well. I plug the pump into the outlets that operate the under tailgate spreader. I regulate with a Force America controller, (which was in the truck when I purchased it.) The liquid pump attached to the motor is listed as...max. gpm. 210. Max. psi..125. I tried to upload picture for you to see, but having some difficulties. When I can send it, I will.

The system pumps very well, and with all the nozzles spraying, I have the back flow valve set about 2/3 way open. I tested unit with controller set on about 5 (1-10) If I turn dial upwards even more, it will drill holes 2" into the hard packed gravel. The nozzles are 1/8" at this time. I believe they are 4-5 gpm.


----------



## MF 5455

I must add to my sprayer unit that Kubota was a great help to me. I contacted him on different occasions for moral support. Even though we are hundreds of miles apart, he offered any assistance I needed.

Thanks Kubota !!!


----------



## MF 5455

MF 5455;1849560 said:


> I must add to my sprayer unit that Kubota was a great help to me. I contacted him on different occasions for moral support. Even though we are hundreds of miles apart, he offered any assistance I needed.
> 
> Thanks Kubota !!!


Finally able to send a picture of tag on the hypro pump


----------



## MF 5455

MF 5455;1849562 said:


> Finally able to send a picture of tag on the hypro pump


Offering some more pictures of my latest brine sprayer. This is mounted in a Ford F550 with central hydraulics.


----------



## MF 5455

MF 5455;1849568 said:


> Offering some more pictures of my latest brine sprayer. This is mounted in a Ford F550 with central hydraulics.


Some pictures of how I have system mounted in my truck. This is sorta challenging to do without drilling holes in the bed floor for mounting brackets. 600 gallons of brine...6,000 lbs., so I hope this will keep it in the truck. I may add the 3rd ratchet strap for precaution. DOT laws here are very tight and ridgid. tymusic


----------



## MF 5455

MF 5455;1849569 said:


> Some pictures of how I have system mounted in my truck. This is sorta challenging to do without drilling holes in the bed floor for mounting brackets. 600 gallons of brine...6,000 lbs., so I hope this will keep it in the truck. I may add the 3rd ratchet strap for precaution. DOT laws here are very tight and ridgid. tymusic


This picture shows how unit is attached at rear of truck. I utilized the tailgate locking mechanism into holding the sprayer unit from shifting sideways or front to rear. Took a 2" angle steel, fastened it with bolts and wing nuts to the PT 4x4s. I than welded the angle to a 1" piece of round stock so that it is close up against the locks on truck. This keeps it from shifting with maybe 1/2" free play for ease of loading / unloading.


----------



## Ice Patrol

MF 5455;1849557 said:


> Yes sir. The hydraulic motor does not have any numbers on it. The hypro pump does. Hypro lists the unit as a 9304C-HM5C. I don't believe this unit is sold as this now. You can either use a 9303..., or I believe the substitute for the one I have is a 9306... Hypro says it needs a max. 17 gpm of oil to use it. I don't have any numbers for you from the truck hydraulics, in terms of how much oil it pumps, but I do know that it created plenty of oil to run this system well. I plug the pump into the outlets that operate the under tailgate spreader. I regulate with a Force America controller, (which was in the truck when I purchased it.) The liquid pump attached to the motor is listed as...max. gpm. 210. Max. psi..125. I tried to upload picture for you to see, but having some difficulties. When I can send it, I will.
> 
> The system pumps very well, and with all the nozzles spraying, I have the back flow valve set about 2/3 way open. I tested unit with controller set on about 5 (1-10) If I turn dial upwards even more, it will drill holes 2" into the hard packed gravel. The nozzles are 1/8" at this time. I believe they are 4-5 gpm.


Great information!! Thank you for posting this. I will get a flow measurement off my hydro supply tomorrow and go from there. I like that this would be quiet running through communities in the middle of the night.

I'm glad guys like you and Kubota are sharing the wealth of knowledge to the forum. Thanks again. Thumbs Up


----------



## JoeyWuzHere

http://midwestsalt.com/product/mvp-skid-sprayer/ this thing is under 2,000$. hope i get money before the snow starts


----------



## gmlcinc

Kubota 8540;1348053 said:


> Sold my sprayer today, now I have to figure out what will replace it. I am kind of thinking 3 zone, electric start and 300 gallon? Sure would be nice if it had a controller like V boxes have to start, choke, throttle, and kill from the cab? I wonder if a poly sprayer pump can be mounted to a vertical shaft engine? Wireless remote set up off a v box could be used to control the engine cheaply that way?
> 
> Can this pedestal pump be mounted vertical rather than horizontal?
> 
> View attachment 102886


Kubota did you ever make any headway with this? We're setting up a new brine unit and are trying to figure out the same thing. How to set it up with the controls like our v box salter to run from the cab. Sure beats getting out every time to start..


----------



## NuverPlawd

*Just ran my brine maker!*

Between fall cleanups we had a minute. I wanted to post this, because there are small companies out there like mine, with no land and no $ for it. We run our businesses out of our closets and other clandestine locations. We're coming after your contracts, we just wanted you to know that.

So, without further ado:

(Youtube)

1) 




2) 




3) 




This is a single pump (2) 275 gal tote setup. We had roughly 360 gallons (no access to water, what do you know about that?)

Put in 20 buckets @ ~50lbs each (BULK). (We have a backhoe but we are not allowed to bulk store salt outside here). Even if we could load with the backhoe we wouldn't on this unit.

We ran it while adding the buckets over 10 minutes.

By the time We completed loading there was only 6" on the rear end of the tote.

By 35 minutes there was not enough at the bottom to be half a bucket. 
(who knows what that stuff is).

We used a fish catcher to skim the surface afterwards and will let it settle for a few days. Then I'll transfer that to our 600 gal, and make more!

I credit the research and those that have been adding to this forum and on the web in general...you receive all my praise. I said it before and I'll say it again, without folks like you guys-it'd be impossible for people to advance.

Looking forward to this season, good luck out there and be safe.


----------



## 86 CJ

NuverPlawd;1860591 said:


> Between fall cleanups we had a minute. I wanted to post this, because there are small companies out there like mine, with no land and no $ for it. We run our businesses out of our closets and other clandestine locations. We're coming after your contracts, we just wanted you to know that.
> 
> So, without further ado:
> 
> (Youtube)
> 
> 1)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a single pump (2) 275 gal tote setup. We had roughly 360 gallons (no access to water, what do you know about that?)
> 
> Put in 20 buckets @ ~50lbs each (BULK). (We have a backhoe but we are not allowed to bulk store salt outside here). Even if we could load with the backhoe we wouldn't on this unit.
> 
> We ran it while adding the buckets over 10 minutes.
> 
> By the time We completed loading there was only 6" on the rear end of the tote.
> 
> By 35 minutes there was not enough at the bottom to be half a bucket.
> (who knows what that stuff is).
> 
> We used a fish catcher to skim the surface afterwards and will let it settle for a few days. Then I'll transfer that to our 600 gal, and make more!
> 
> I credit the research and those that have been adding to this forum and on the web in general...you receive all my praise. I said it before and I'll say it again, without folks like you guys-it'd be impossible for people to advance.
> 
> Looking forward to this season, good luck out there and be safe.


Looking good man 

SnowPatrol and I are right behind you with a very similar setup.... We will post when we finish our project......


----------



## NuverPlawd

86 CJ;1860783 said:


> Looking good man
> 
> SnowPatrol and I are right behind you with a very similar setup.... We will post when we finish our project......


Thanks.

Its important to have a buddy with you the first time you run it. I got caught being cheap again and left out a valve on the 2" pipe (output side of pump, into manifold for turbulence). So I'm like ah, time to disconnect my $20 cam (sweet) and detach my pump... it wasn't so much a splash as it was a tsunami.

Little did I know, the 150 gallons (1500 lbs) sitting on top of the (5) 3/4" turbulence elbows, possessed enough Head to force the water up 3' to the manifold and onto my legs and feet. BUCKET! BUCKET!


----------



## White Gardens

Me and two other landscapers are going in on a system. This is what we've got so far.

Looking to make about 3000 gallons next week.

Went ahead and made an apparatus for the hydrometer. Copied off a similar design my buddy uses to make moon shine.  Legally of course.






Here is also a video showing the turbulence we are getting. There is no manifold, just plumbed into the tank. We are getting a corner where the undissolved salt is sitting, but we just push it around with a stick. That and once we hit 23%, we're just emptying the tank.






....


----------



## Kubota 8540

gmlcinc;1855605 said:


> Kubota did you ever make any headway with this? We're setting up a new brine unit and are trying to figure out the same thing. How to set it up with the controls like our v box salter to run from the cab. Sure beats getting out every time to start..


No unfortunately never had the extra time. But I did contact Hypro pumps about using a Model 9203S CENTRIFUGAL PUMP , I think thats the right number, about mounting it to a vertical shaft 10.5 hp briggs and they told me as long as the pumps outlet was higher than the inlet it would work fine. Obviously dont want an air lock situation to occur. Then just using the same electric throttle controller ( about $150) thats on most gas v box spreaders.

The difference between most horizontal engines and vertical engines is that the horizontals have 1 control for throttle and 1 for choke. Verticals have 1 control that works for throttle and choke, it just slides from low idle all the way to choke position.

Seems it wouldnt take much to do so, just time and money.


----------



## Kubota 8540

White Gardens;1861443 said:


> Me and two other landscapers are going in on a system. This is what we've got so far.
> 
> Looking to make about 3000 gallons next week.
> 
> Went ahead and made an apparatus for the hydrometer. Copied off a similar design my buddy uses to make moon shine.  Legally of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is also a video showing the turbulence we are getting. There is no manifold, just plumbed into the tank. We are getting a corner where the undissolved salt is sitting, but we just push it around with a stick. That and once we hit 23%, we're just emptying the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....


Love the hydrometer gadget! Is it accurate that way? Do you get the same reading when you move it from top tank to lower tank?


----------



## Kubota 8540

NuverPlawd;1860962 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Its important to have a buddy with you the first time you run it. I got caught being cheap again and left out a valve on the 2" pipe (output side of pump, into manifold for turbulence). So I'm like ah, time to disconnect my $20 cam (sweet) and detach my pump... it wasn't so much a splash as it was a tsunami.
> 
> Little did I know, the 150 gallons (1500 lbs) sitting on top of the (5) 3/4" turbulence elbows, possessed enough Head to force the water up 3' to the manifold and onto my legs and feet. BUCKET! BUCKET!


You should see what happens when the cam comes loose with the 2" pump running !


----------



## White Gardens

Kubota 8540;1861861 said:


> Love the hydrometer gadget! Is it accurate that way? Do you get the same reading when you move it from top tank to lower tank?


Every now and then, I'll turn the valve on completely to flush the tube, then turn it off to get a reading. As far as I can tell, it's accurate. I figure that we are completely turning the solution over every 45 seconds with the pump we are using. There shouldn't be any difference in the solution throughout both tanks.

We started with bagged salt, every time we add a bag, the solution goes up 1.5-2% then stabilizes.

The beaker has a constant trickle as noted in the video. Then we just read at the meniscus. Too much flow though, and you'll float the hydrometer.

My friend built a small batch distillery. He does the same thing with his hydrometer, but the trickle out of the beaker is his final product.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

White Gardens;1861443 said:


> Me and two other landscapers are going in on a system. This is what we've got so far.
> 
> Looking to make about 3000 gallons next week.
> 
> Went ahead and made an apparatus for the hydrometer. Copied off a similar design my buddy uses to make moon shine.  Legally of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is also a video showing the turbulence we are getting. There is no manifold, just plumbed into the tank. We are getting a corner where the undissolved salt is sitting, but we just push it around with a stick. That and once we hit 23%, we're just emptying the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....


How many gallons are you making per batch? That's a damn cheap setup. I bet that could be done for what, $500? If you used the same pump that your sprayer used, a couple hundred?


----------



## 86 CJ

What do you guys prefer to use in the back of your trucks for Brine Holding Tanks?

The 275g totes are cheap, but do block my back window for plowing.....

I was comparing that to a 210g low pro tank I found a good deal on used.

I have a standard bed F250 and need room for the pump(if I don't go the electric 12v route for space saving purposes) and a small snow blower to put in the bed as well.....


your thoughts???


----------



## White Gardens

John_DeereGreen;1862051 said:


> How many gallons are you making per batch? That's a damn cheap setup. I bet that could be done for what, $500? If you used the same pump that your sprayer used, a couple hundred?


Maybe 100 bucks. One guy already had the pump so I'm not sure the cost on it. The hose and quick coupler were found in the other guys shop.

I'm focusing more on pre wetting so I'm using a 3.8 gpm electric pump. Might set up some boomless nozzles for Strait liquid, but with the flow of the nozzles, the pump will just be enough.

Totes were also free.

Roughly 400 gallons, need to plumb in a valve though to empty the upper tank without grabbing leftover salt.


----------



## MF 5455

My latest addition for the brine making season. I purchased a used commercial brine maker made of SS. It is equipped with a 2 hp electric motor to drive the pump. I hope to get it situated on concrete slab and make some brine before it gets too cold !!


----------



## White Gardens

That's a sweet looking rig. How many gallons will you be able to do with each batch?



.....


----------



## MF 5455

White Gardens;1863696 said:


> That's a sweet looking rig. How many gallons will you be able to do with each batch?
> 
> .....


This "rig" is capable of producing up to 4,500 gallons per hour, according to the manufacturer. I will never come close to this, since my water supply would only allow 2,000 gallons per day. I have a free water supply, which is an old well....12' deep and made up of concrete blocks, maybe 4'x4' square. It does produce lots of water though. I can pump 1,000 gallons out, than in 45 mins or so, pump again.

I plan to spray closer to 6,000 gallons for myself this winter season. I am having conversation with a local municipality about making brine for them as well. Will give an update after I get it working.


----------



## asjgabries

Is there any advantage or disadvantage to using the valve bodies that go around the boom as opposed to running rubber lines and attaching on the boom.


----------



## MF 5455

asjgabries;1865009 said:


> Is there any advantage or disadvantage to using the valve bodies that go around the boom as opposed to running rubber lines and attaching on the boom.


I believe this would be referred to as... wet lines, when you use a pipe with the valve bodies attached with fasteners, and when a support is used to attach external hoses, piping with nozzles, this is called dry lines.
Kubota would have lots of knowledge on this, more so than I....

I have a 3 point sprayer I used on rear of my tractor for 2 years, which has the square tubing with rubber hoses. I personally didn't have an issue with them, just a bit more difficult to work with, and less volume if you desire a larger sprayer system.

My latest sprayer has the 1-1/2" pvc tubing with the nozzle bodies attached with spring loaded assemblies to keep them in place. IMHO, I think they are more versatile, and different nozzles can be changed out quickly without tools. I'm guessing the wet lines are more expensive tho ???

I have a large inventory of 3/4" rubber hose, and LOTS of fittings, nozzles, etc., etc., if anyone is near or close to where I live. Probably enough items to put together 2-3 sprayer booms. Lol.


----------



## 86 CJ

Do you guys see any issues with using this pump on my truck for my Sprayer setup?

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/red-lion-55-hp-engine-driven-water-pump?cm_vc=IOPDP


----------



## sdaigh

I wouldn't go with an aluminum or metal pump housing of any kind, Salt water doesn't usually do well with them. Find one of the Plastic "chemical" style pumps. I bought my 2" pump for right around $250 ... Here is one on the same site that I would recommend instead http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/pacerreg;--econoag--series-transfer-pump-2-in ... Shop around and I'm sure you can find a slightly cheaper price.


----------



## 86 CJ

sdaigh;1868579 said:


> I wouldn't go with an aluminum or metal pump housing of any kind, Salt water doesn't usually do well with them. Find one of the Plastic "chemical" style pumps. I bought my 2" pump for right around $250 ... Here is one on the same site that I would recommend instead http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/pacerreg;--econoag--series-transfer-pump-2-in ... Shop around and I'm sure you can find a slightly cheaper price.


Thanks

Yes, Thats the one I originally was going to get, but when I got there, they had non in stock. I am going to order one, but was not sure about the aluminum ones and how long they would hold up.... Just wanted a second opinion I guess...


----------



## sdaigh

*Beet Salt??*

I've got a cousin that bought a truckload of Beet treated bulk salt, anyone ever try using this to make brine with or see any reason, good or bad with doing so?


----------



## MF 5455

sdaigh;1868589 said:



> I've got a cousin that bought a truckload of Beet treated bulk salt, anyone ever try using this to make brine with or see any reason, good or bad with doing so?


I personally have never used the beet juice additive or added it to salt brine.
I would be curious if the beet juice actually penetrates the salt particles, and if so, could or would this cause the saturation of salt brine to change to the point where its efficiency would be effected ?

I believe the beet juice has a sugary content which kind of sticks to the pavement ???

Our highway departments here have quit using the beet juice because when the humidity is high, the juice leaves a slick coating on the surface.

IMHO, pure salt brine is probably the best way to go for spraying. There are additives, and I think Kubota uses a 90/10 mixture of salt brine and calcium liquid. I believe this will give a lower temperature at which the brine can be sprayed. The correct mixture of brine will allow this product to be sprayed at temps down to minus 6 fahrenheit. 23.3% in weight.

Salt brine is the least expensive to make or purchase, and there has been tons of research to go along with this method. The internet is full of documents from many highway departments both in the US and Canada verifying the excellent results achieved from using salt brine.


----------



## White Gardens

sdaigh;1868589 said:


> I've got a cousin that bought a truckload of Beet treated bulk salt, anyone ever try using this to make brine with or see any reason, good or bad with doing so?


One local supplier mixes beet juice in with their salt and markets it as "magic salt".

I've used it before, and I'll say it definitively drops the freezing point of the salt and they use it for per-treatment of lots. When I used it, temps were brutal and I didn't have my salt freeze up in the truck like I did previously with strait salt.

I've used it before and I will say that mixed with rock salt it worked pretty darn good.

From my readings, it's the carbohydrates in the beet juice that help lower the freezing point and aid in the melting process.

You could also use potato extracts and corn extracts and get the same result.

We are going to get some beet juice from our local supplier and add it to some of our tank fills to see if there is any advantage to using it in liquid. My thought is that there will be some advantages over using strait brine as I've seen the results from using the rock salt mixed with the beet juice.

If I can stay away from using calcium by using the beet juice, then I'm all for it. The only thing I dislike about the beet juice is the smell......

....


----------



## MF 5455

White Gardens;1869097 said:


> One local supplier mixes beet juice in with their salt and markets it as "magic salt".
> 
> I've used it before, and I'll say it definitively drops the freezing point of the salt and they use it for per-treatment of lots. When I used it, temps were brutal and I didn't have my salt freeze up in the truck like I did previously with strait salt.
> 
> I've used it before and I will say that mixed with rock salt it worked pretty darn good.
> 
> From my readings, it's the carbohydrates in the beet juice that help lower the freezing point and aid in the melting process.
> 
> You could also use potato extracts and corn extracts and get the same result.
> 
> We are going to get some beet juice from our local supplier and add it to some of our tank fills to see if there is any advantage to using it in liquid. My thought is that there will be some advantages over using strait brine as I've seen the results from using the rock salt mixed with the beet juice.
> 
> If I can stay away from using calcium by using the beet juice, then I'm all for it. The only thing I dislike about the beet juice is the smell......
> 
> ....


Remember....salt brine, or whatever you use or going to use, is just one of the tools in the toolbox. It is NOT a cure for all winter events.

Advice....be extremely careful with your brine and or additive mixtures. To be on the safe side, check each batch yourself with a salometer to make sure it has the right saturation. One slip and fall in a parking lot, and without documentation on what your using could mean a liability for you. Because someone else uses a certain method, and it looks good, doesn't mean it is.


----------



## NuverPlawd

terrapro;1845475 said:


> Why in the world would you need a 2" electric valve?!
> 
> I use Teejet 3/4" straight to the boom, puts down plenty of liquid...about $100 per
> 
> These are new to me and are under $100, buy a couple to keep in the glove box.
> http://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/11839


GOod call.


----------



## NuverPlawd

I used our brine for the first time yesterday  No calcium mixed yet, don't need it.

Have a lot more learning to do. It was 15f 0f with windchill and very very windy. Most guys were over applying their salt and it wasn't working well. After 30 mins I had shiny bare asphalt.


----------



## NuverPlawd

Kubota 8540;1861862 said:


> You should see what happens when the cam comes loose with the 2" pump running !


Oh lawdy lawdy


----------



## NuverPlawd

White Gardens;1861443 said:


> Me and two other landscapers are going in on a system. This is what we've got so far.
> 
> Looking to make about 3000 gallons next week.
> 
> Went ahead and made an apparatus for the hydrometer. Copied off a similar design my buddy uses to make moon shine.  Legally of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is also a video showing the turbulence we are getting. There is no manifold, just plumbed into the tank. We are getting a corner where the undissolved salt is sitting, but we just push it around with a stick. That and once we hit 23%, we're just emptying the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....


Very nice setup, lots of movement in there. I too like the hydrometer doo-hicky.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Kubota 8540;1837674 said:


> 180 gal salt brine x .08 = 14.40
> 220 gal cal chloride x .60= 132.00
> 
> Total cost for 400 gallons = 146.40 = 0.366 per gallon
> 
> Applied @ 120 gallons per acre =0.366 per gallon = $43.92/acre ? Expensive? at below 0?
> 
> What liquid do you apply?


I can get it for $4/gallon in Montana! Cheapest liquid around here is mag chloride @ $1/gallon. Besides DIY brine of course.


----------



## NuverPlawd

kubota:

One of my first posts, which the last post was your quote in response to..

I finally made my first application on monday. 

So, now I can properly respond to you.

Ignoring all time and labor:

I spend $100 bulk ton.

Close I mean really really close to 23.3% 

Froze it to a verifiable -6 F still liquid. 

Sprayed it on a 15 F 0 windchill heavy wind rainfall icing with dusting. Booom. Dry. Next day, white as fuxk. Over applied I think.

That is all.


----------



## Drottlawn

Kubota
Do you make a spray setup minus the tank? I have many 330 gallon totes, so I am covered there. I am looking to buy a setup for my f550 with multiple tanks and one f250 single tote setup. I dont need all of the bells and whistles, but want something to get the job done quick. Let me know if you can help
Thanks!


----------



## kc2006

Question for you guys. I'm gathering a bunch of stuff from dultmeier to build a spray set up. So far I have the electric valves, the hose, I'm going to mess with a couple spray bars. What hose connectors are you guys running though? I have a grainger and a couple local industrial supply places in town so I'm sure I can get most of them here but dultmeier seems way cheaper than them so if I can grab a few fittings now I'd like to.


----------



## Kubota 8540

kc2006;1882037 said:


> Question for you guys. I'm gathering a bunch of stuff from dultmeier to build a spray set up. So far I have the electric valves, the hose, I'm going to mess with a couple spray bars. What hose connectors are you guys running though? I have a grainger and a couple local industrial supply places in town so I'm sure I can get most of them here but dultmeier seems way cheaper than them so if I can grab a few fittings now I'd like to.


What do you mean by hose connectors? Nozzle body on the spray boom? OR the hose quick attach fittings?


----------



## kc2006

As in the connectors on your 2" and 1" hoses. IVe seen it said on this thread pvc has no place on these set ups. So what material connectors should be used? And say like where the hose goes into your electric valve, what style connector is that? Is it a barb or something else?


----------



## Kubota 8540

kc2006;1882422 said:


> As in the connectors on your 2" and 1" hoses. IVe seen it said on this thread pvc has no place on these set ups. So what material connectors should be used? And say like where the hose goes into your electric valve, what style connector is that? Is it a barb or something else?


http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.2099.2153.2157

http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.630.643

In No way am I promoting Dultmeier nor do I get some kind of cut or discount. But they have one of the nicest online catalog and selections.


----------



## kc2006

thanks for the links.

I went to place an order for the valves and hose for now only, wow their shipping is insane on bigger stuff. The hose ended up being $150 to ship, for three 10' sections. So that was a no go, I'll have to see if one of the locals have anything.


----------



## Kubota 8540

kc2006;1882642 said:


> thanks for the links.
> 
> I went to place an order for the valves and hose for now only, wow their shipping is insane on bigger stuff. The hose ended up being $150 to ship, for three 10' sections. So that was a no go, I'll have to see if one of the locals have anything.


I'm only 100 miles from their store, and I wont pay shipping on hose either. It cost me $30 to drive there so, if I need much of anything I call in my order then drive for a 4 hour round trip.

Check your local farm stores for fertilizer hose, same thing basically.


----------



## terrapro

kc2006;1882422 said:


> As in the connectors on your 2" and 1" hoses. IVe seen it said on this thread pvc has no place on these set ups. So what material connectors should be used? And say like where the hose goes into your electric valve, what style connector is that? Is it a barb or something else?


http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.2099.2153.2157/2227
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.2099.2153.2157/4391

I use sch40 for the plumbing off my pump...one goes to the return line then other off to the filter and solenoid valve to go to the boom. No reason not to, it's cheap and does the job. Then at the moment I do have just a 7' pvc boom with holes drilled in it...put it together on a whim.


----------



## terrapro

86 CJ;1868485 said:


> Do you guys see any issues with using this pump on my truck for my Sprayer setup?
> 
> http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/red-lion-55-hp-engine-driven-water-pump?cm_vc=IOPDP





sdaigh;1868579 said:


> I wouldn't go with an aluminum or metal pump housing of any kind, Salt water doesn't usually do well with them. Find one of the Plastic "chemical" style pumps. I bought my 2" pump for right around $250 ... Here is one on the same site that I would recommend instead http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/pacerreg;--econoag--series-transfer-pump-2-in ... Shop around and I'm sure you can find a slightly cheaper price.


Yep don't use the aluminum you want poly, that's the pump/motor I use the poly pacer matched to the briggs. Sprays 150 per minute so no problem there and can drive around 5-7mph.
Just bought a new one this fall as mine was seized and while taking it apart everything broke into pieces but it is well over 5-6 seasons old...it was used as a nurse tank sprayer before I got it so it is pretty used.


----------



## balky22

*Looking to find*

Looking for some help . Where to purchase liquid calcium to mix with our salt brine that we will be making. Also where I can pick up a hydrometer .looking forward to getting our brine up and running. Thank you for the help


----------



## NuverPlawd

I google around for all of my needs, but if you review this thread you'll see Dultmeier.com is a good source for all sprayer needs.

GO WITH THE POLYCARBONATE HYDROMETER (SALOMETER) 0-26.5 ... you will crack the glass tip at the end of the hydrometer no matter how gentle you are. You won't even notice you did it until you see that it is filled with water. If you break your Hydrometer you can forget about making brine until you replace it. (Unless you are able to taste 23.3%)

As far as Liquid CaCl2 that's a matter of where exactly you are located. Where I'm from (Pittsburgh) the cheapest I could find was Grove City $1.50 a gallon/250 gallons (and rising) and we have to pick it up. If you find a better source or want to discuss if you are around this area let me know. Truth is though, when you properly mix AND USE Brine, it would have to be very very cold for you to need it- at which point at my $ it's just worth tossing a bit of dry CaCl2. Just my 2 cents at my costs. Kubota uses that stuff religiously, but if I got it for what he got it for... I'd just spray it straight for no reason.


----------



## Totallawncare

I see you are in Pittsburgh, PA. I am not far from you. Do you or have you used any of the liquid from Seneca in erie pa


----------



## NuverPlawd

Totallawncare;1889035 said:


> I see you are in Pittsburgh, PA. I am not far from you. Do you or have you used any of the liquid from Seneca in erie pa


No. The only liquid I've ever used is the 23.3% (or very close) from bulk Sodium Chloride that we make in house. It astonishes me how well it works, coming from only ever having used granular bulk or calcium. Again it's all about the event, it has it's limitations (freezing rain, etc.)

Never heard of Seneca, what do they have? You can always give me a call sometime, 412.596.8595. -Eric

Edit:
Since original post, I took a look at Seneca Mineral. Looks like a cool company at a glance, seems like they sell blends as well as raw chemicals. They also sell equipment and other sprayer related materials. I've visited Turbo Turf (they're great) for local advice and equipment.. its nice to know more than one place. Thanks for the info.

I also started looking into logistics, I'll call them tomorrow and get a better idea of what they offer. Either way, eventually I will purchase some other chemicals to start making blends to test. I am interested in exploring some cooperative effort so long as it makes us/saves us $. Let me know if you are as well.

Thanks again.


----------



## Totallawncare

9,000 gal. Of liquid. Let me know if you need anything.


----------



## Totallawncare

2,000 ton of salt as well.


----------



## NuverPlawd

hoooollyyy ****tttt


----------



## NuverPlawd

9k gallons of What?


----------



## Totallawncare

Liquid is salt brine with some additives


----------



## NuverPlawd

Not comfortable with being more elaborate? Give me a call sometime and I'll swing by, I'd chop it up with ya. (though you seem like you keep yourself over-occupied).


----------



## balky22

Thank you for that information. That will be very helpful. And since we are just getting started ill just use the flake until we get it drilled in. Good luck this winter.


----------



## kc2006

So I bought up a bunch of those 3/4" solenoid valves that were posted a couple pages back. They have a 10gpm flow rate, is that enough flow to power a 100ish inch boom with the sj3 nozzles, or should I run two of these valves just for that boom? 

I know the valve kabota uses flows 32 gpm so I was worried these wouldn't be enough. But considering I bought them up for 1/10 the cost of the teejet 1" valves, I'm cool with running 2 of these if need be.


----------



## NuverPlawd

I would assume if you ran two seperate 3/4" lines to each side of the boom and had the 3/4" valves on those lines you'd be at around 20 gpm... which is pretty decent flow. My question is, what kind of pump do you use?

The reason I ask is that I've always wondered how far you can choke down one of those gas poly pumps. We have a 2" pb300h driven by a honda 5hp..use it for brine making, that thing is a certified lake drainer. For turbulence we choke down the 2" to a 2" manifold that has (5) 3/4" hoses to the tank. The pressure that comes out of each one of those 3/4" elbows is wild. If you're running one of those pumps for spraying I'd be worried about bursting lines. Maybe with a pressure regulator you'd be ok? Let me know what your plans are in detail please, I am very interested in making the switch from electric pump to gas.

I just bought two boomless nozzles to extend my boom, don't know what will happen with pressure and flow.


----------



## kc2006

I'm using one of the "econo-ag" pacer pumps from TSC, I'm thinking it'll just stay at an idle and be plenty of GPM. I'm also running a bypass pre-valves to set my pressure, and these 3/4" valves are also bypass style. So the pump is never dead headed.


----------



## NuverPlawd

bypass pre valve?


----------



## kc2006

Look at pics of others set ups on here, you run a te editing off the pump, one end goes to your valves, one end is a return line with a shut off valve on it so you can regulate the pressure over the whole system. Think controlled leak.


----------



## MF 5455

kc2006;1891907 said:


> Look at pics of others set ups on here, you run a te editing off the pump, one end goes to your valves, one end is a return line with a shut off valve on it so you can regulate the pressure over the whole system. Think controlled leak.


Hi Not sure if you have a question about the return line or just commenting...

But, yes, there is a valve there to regulate pressure, and also on most systems, there is a coupler on the "T" exiting the pump to unload the liquid with the pump. For example, if you were out of brine, you could connect your system to mine and we could make a transfer. I suppose you wouldn't necessarily have to have a valve there, if you had a pressure regulator. The regulator could either be an electric or manual one. The manual one is called a "throttling valve".

Just don't attempt to operate any of these systems with a closed return line.  Something will for sure will come apart.


----------



## kc2006

Yea I was just commenting, my phone auto corrected me a couple times.

Another fitting question, what type of clamps does everyone use where a hose goes on a barb fitting? Regular hose clamp or T-bolt?


----------



## MF 5455

kc2006;1892225 said:


> Yea I was just commenting, my phone auto corrected me a couple times.
> 
> Another fitting question, what type of clamps does everyone use where a hose goes on a barb fitting? Regular hose clamp or T-bolt?


I like the T bolt type because they will last forever especially if they're good quality. Make sure it's S.S. They are more costly tho....


----------



## NuverPlawd

Once Upon a Time....


Kubota 8540;1350318 said:


> Correct.
> 
> Now you will have $375+ wrapped up in pumps. Compare to 1 gas powered pump($300) that can spray 80' in a pass to 3 electrics that will be able to spray 10' per pass.
> 
> I could stretch that 80' to 88' .


This is what I'm talkin 'bout. Electric was just so tempting with its ease and quietness. I didn't want so many variables with something that was totally new to me, including brine making.

The only other thing that makes me sweat is the cost of the wireless valves. But with the speed and versatility of a gas pump, its a necessity if I want to do this properly.

My only question is.. Why would anybody want a boom with all these amazing boomless nozzles? If you have the pump and tank capacity?


----------



## Kubota 8540

NuverPlawd;1892409 said:


> Once Upon a Time....
> 
> This is what I'm talkin 'bout. Electric was just so tempting with its ease and quietness. I didn't want so many variables with something that was totally new to me, including brine making.
> 
> The only other thing that makes me sweat is the cost of the wireless valves. But with the speed and versatility of a gas pump, its a necessity if I want to do this properly.
> 
> My only question is.. Why would anybody want a boom with all these amazing boomless nozzles? If you have the pump and tank capacity?


So why spend for wireless? Wired has worked fine for years?

Boomless nozzles are fine for certain anti icing applications, but IMO the stream nozzle work in both anti icing and deicing best. Stream type pierce or cut thru the snow better and the liquid gets to the surface of the pavement.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1892261 said:


> I like the T bolt type because they will last forever especially if they're good quality. Make sure it's S.S. They are more costly tho....


Figures we would export the high quality clamps north and only keep the FAKE stainless here.......LOL


----------



## Kubota 8540

kc2006;1892225 said:


> Yea I was just commenting, my phone auto corrected me a couple times.
> 
> Another fitting question, what type of clamps does everyone use where a hose goes on a barb fitting? Regular hose clamp or T-bolt?


1" hose or less just regular S/S clamps, larger than 1" I use T-bolt.


----------



## NuverPlawd

Kubota 8540;1892655 said:


> So why spend for wireless? Wired has worked fine for years?
> 
> Boomless nozzles are fine for certain anti icing applications, but IMO the stream nozzle work in both anti icing and deicing best. Stream type pierce or cut thru the snow better and the liquid gets to the surface of the pavement.


Good point. Brings me to another question.. I do a bunch of irrigation and have some of these laying around: Rainbird DV- Plastic Wired Valves

They are really reliable and relatively inexpensive. I have a small inverter in my truck..


----------



## NuverPlawd

forgot the question: think that the valve would work well? I had been throwing the idea of using a small irrigation controller for elaborate setup. $60 Multi-Valve controller


----------



## Kubota 8540

NuverPlawd;1892767 said:


> forgot the question: think that the valve would work well? I had been throwing the idea of using a small irrigation controller for elaborate setup. $60 Multi-Valve controller


:laughing: Maybe if you have a long enough extension cord to plug it in AND you were on the right lot at the right time, I'm thinking it might :laughing:

Seriously......will it work at the temps it needs too? Why a timer? A lot easier to keep it simple even if it will cost a few more $$$ upfront.

Simple $3 toggle to turn a valve off and on.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1892659 said:


> Figures we would export the high quality clamps north and only keep the FAKE stainless here.......LOL


Haha... you betcha'. I know how you Americans are...

Seriously tho, I have seen some clamps whether T-bolt or regular supposing to be SS, and they do rust. I think the manufacturer sprayed them with a thin coating.  A good rinse off occasionally with some fresh water, will help keep the outside of our pumps, valves etc. clean.

I do agree with Kubota...the less automation on these units is probably best. I have an electric pressure controller, and a hookup for speed controlling that could have been installed on my sprayer. After some conversations, we I decided just the 3 valves that turn on-off with simple toggle switch controller.

Temps were right here today to do some brine making. We made another 1,400 gallons of 23.3%, or on my gauge...88-89% pure brine. Think I'm going to have a special salometer made that is about 2" in diameter, with numbers all magnified, so I can read it without my reading glasses.


----------



## balky22

could someone help me understand the sixty degree temp in reference to the hydrometer. is that the water temp or air. as i'm trying to make brine soon . and i'm not sure how the temp plays a factor.thank you for your help


----------



## MF 5455

balky22;1893119 said:


> could someone help me understand the sixty degree temp in reference to the hydrometer. is that the water temp or air. as i'm trying to make brine soon . and i'm not sure how the temp plays a factor.thank you for your help


Only MHO... I believe that 60 degree temp situation is in a perfect world scenario. Perhaps in the lab where water, air, hydrometer etc., is at the perfect temp. Perhaps a standard to go by made by those who invented the hydrometer. We are not in that perfect scenario my friend....well, maybe Kubota is. :laughing:

I made brine today with air temp +2 celcius, or 36 fah. I still chose to make it at the 23.3%. Is the reading going to be off at 60 degree ? Probably, but I don't believe it would be enough difference to affect the quality of brine. I sprayed brine last winter when it was extremely cold...0% fah., and it didn't freeze.


----------



## MF 5455

Sorry, that should have read... 0 degrees fah., instead of 0%.


----------



## NuverPlawd

Kubota 8540;1892908 said:


> :laughing: Maybe if you have a long enough extension cord to plug it in AND you were on the right lot at the right time, I'm thinking it might :laughing:
> 
> You're right, it is pretty funny.
> 
> Seriously......will it work at the temps it needs too? Why a timer? A lot easier to keep it simple even if it will cost a few more $$$ upfront.
> 
> Simple $3 toggle to turn a valve off and on.


As for the temp. It is important. Take a sample home warm it up test it. Throw it in the freezer over night pull it out test the temp. Then when you're satisfied mix it with the stored batch.

I think of it like this: how will I be able to learn how the brine works consistently unless the brine is the same? Last thing I want is to think I'm good, and get a call back that there was a 4 car pileup with an explosion and a family of 5 burned to death.


----------



## MF 5455

NuverPlawd;1893150 said:


> As for the temp. It is important. Take a sample home warm it up test it. Throw it in the freezer over night pull it out test the temp. Then when you're satisfied mix it with the stored batch.
> 
> I think of it like this: how will I be able to learn how the brine works consistently unless the brine is the same? Last thing I want is to think I'm good, and get a call back that there was a 4 car pileup with an explosion and a family of 5 burned to death.


Holy Cow... You are being quite dramatic now aren't you...:laughing::laughing:

Oh, I forgot Kubota...you live in Illinois where it's always 60 degrees. I'm just kidding. tymusic

It is difficult to make the brine at 60 deg temps., when well water comes out at or close to 52 deg. When I first started making my own brine, I filled my tanks with water and let them sit with heat radiating on them. I don't have time for that.... Have to make it when I can. I know a contractor here close by that makes and sells 4 million litres every year, and they make it from start of season right through until no more is needed. They are in a building per say, well, a shelter with no ends on the building ??? He told me that last winter a few times they had to break the crust of salt in the brine maker so they could make more. That's how cold it was. IDK all the answers, just sharing.


----------



## Kubota 8540

balky22;1893119 said:


> could someone help me understand the sixty degree temp in reference to the hydrometer. is that the water temp or air. as i'm trying to make brine soon . and i'm not sure how the temp plays a factor.thank you for your help


I dont know if all hydrometers/salimeter are calibrated for reading and accuracy at 60F or not, but the ones I have looked at or use are. Which means to me that the reading of the hydrometer will be exact at 60F. Not air temp,but the temp of the liquid you are measuring. So if the liquid temp is 60F and the salimeter/hydrometer reading is 23.3%,88,3% or 1.176, that is exactly right. If the temp of your water /liquid mix is 40F then the reading on your hydrometer/salimeter has to be corrected. I believe it is -.5 for every 10 degrees cooler the liquid temp. There should be a correction chart I have posted a few times.


----------



## Kubota 8540

NuverPlawd;1893150 said:


> As for the temp. It is important. Take a sample home warm it up test it. Throw it in the freezer over night pull it out test the temp. Then when you're satisfied mix it with the stored batch.
> 
> I think of it like this: how will I be able to learn how the brine works consistently unless the brine is the same? Last thing I want is to think I'm good, and get a call back that there was a 4 car pileup with an explosion and a family of 5 burned to death.


When I was referring to temp, I meant at what temp will those valves work to? The spec sheet says they will work up to 110F but will they work at 0 degrees F?

When a lot of these manufactured anti icing sprayers first came out they used a poppet style valve, worked great but not when the were out in the lower temps outside.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1893161 said:


> Holy Cow... You are being quite dramatic now aren't you...:laughing::laughing:
> 
> Oh, I forgot Kubota...you live in Illinois where it's always 60 degrees. I'm just kidding. tymusic
> 
> It is difficult to make the brine at 60 deg temps., when well water comes out at or close to 52 deg. When I first started making my own brine, I filled my tanks with water and let them sit with heat radiating on them. I don't have time for that.... Have to make it when I can. I know a contractor here close by that makes and sells 4 million litres every year, and they make it from start of season right through until no more is needed. They are in a building per say, well, a shelter with no ends on the building ??? He told me that last winter a few times they had to break the crust of salt in the brine maker so they could make more. That's how cold it was. IDK all the answers, just sharing.


I have a lot of answers, just not sure they are all correct.....LOL


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1893106 said:


> Haha... you betcha'. I know how you Americans are...
> 
> Seriously tho, I have seen some clamps whether T-bolt or regular supposing to be SS, and they do rust.  I think the manufacturer sprayed them with a thin coating.  A good rinse off occasionally with some fresh water, will help keep the outside of our pumps, valves etc. clean.
> 
> I do agree with Kubota...the less automation on these units is probably best. I have an electric pressure controller, and a hookup for speed controlling that could have been installed on my sprayer. After some conversations, we I decided just the 3 valves that turn on-off with simple toggle switch controller.
> 
> Temps were right here today to do some brine making. We made another 1,400 gallons of 23.3%, or on my gauge...88-89% pure brine. Think I'm going to have a special salometer made that is about 2" in diameter, with numbers all magnified, so I can read it without my reading glasses.


When you are getting that 2" salimeter made....have it made out of flourescent orange polycarbonate and I will buy one tooooooo......:laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota... I believe you are correct with the charts. I think you posted this couple years ago. 

I was just waiting to see if you could remember, or if you're toooo old and forgot. 

It would be nice to have water temps at 60 deg. I suppose that means keeping the salt in a heated building also !!!  I'm quitting. Lol.

Just make the adjustments and move on


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;1893293 said:


> Kubota... I believe you are correct with the charts. I think you posted this couple years ago.
> 
> I was just waiting to see if you could remember, or if you're toooo old and forgot.
> 
> It would be nice to have water temps at 60 deg. I suppose that means keeping the salt in a heated building also !!!  I'm quitting. Lol.
> 
> Just make the adjustments and move on


Correct, just make the corrections to your hydrometer / salimeter reading and keep making brine, BBBBUT, I like making brine early fall or early spring when all the temps are fairly steady around 60F. I dont shiver as much then. But even then my well water is less than 60F, seems to come out of the outside faucet at 50-52F.


----------



## NuverPlawd

MF 5455;1893161 said:


> Holy Cow... You are being quite dramatic now aren't you...:laughing::laughing:


I'm Serious.  = how i looked after my first spray.

One of my main properties is my apartment building. It's a wicked multi-level lot with an entrance driveway of about 400' and ranges from 75%-35% Grade (Slope). The low end of the driveway has a guard rail and then a steep drop off a hillside into woods.

The way I am able to make brine, my access to water, time etc. I have to check my brine temps. I've frozen lines before because I wasn't able to finish a batch and had to run.



Kubota 8540;1893287 said:


> When I was referring to temp, I meant at what temp will those valves work to? The spec sheet says they will work up to 110F but will they work at 0 degrees F? When a lot of these manufactured anti icing sprayers first came out they used a poppet style valve, worked great but not when the were out in the lower temps outside.


Ya, I messed up the quote. I cried a bit when you laughed at me. The temp is what holds me back. So you've heard of these style valves being used before and it doesn't work well based on the nature of the poppet.
The ones that work well use what style of valves (internals)?

Also, do you preference a certain actuation time? Does the response time have anything to do with reliability/quality when it comes to brine spraying?
I know you build these things to be top notch, and spending $200 on the valve is nothing because that is the demand. You never really commented on the 3/4" valve from back a-ways.. what's you're scoop dood?


----------



## Kubota 8540

NuverPlawd;1893357 said:


> I'm Serious.  = how i looked after my first spray.
> 
> One of my main properties is my apartment building. It's a wicked multi-level lot with an entrance driveway of about 400' and ranges from 75%-35% Grade (Slope). The low end of the driveway has a guard rail and then a steep drop off a hillside into woods.
> 
> The way I am able to make brine, my access to water, time etc. I have to check my brine temps. I've frozen lines before because I wasn't able to finish a batch and had to run.
> 
> Ya, I messed up the quote. I cried a bit when you laughed at me. The temp is what holds me back. So you've heard of these style valves being used before and it doesn't work well based on the nature of the poppet.
> The ones that work well use what style of valves (internals)?
> 
> Also, do you preference a certain actuation time? Does the response time have anything to do with reliability/quality when it comes to brine spraying?
> I know you build these things to be top notch, and spending $200 on the valve is nothing because that is the demand. You never really commented on the 3/4" valve from back a-ways.. what's you're scoop dood?


Electric Ball Valves.

Most have 3/4 second on/off response. Those that have 4+second response time are used for regulating valves.

List the model # so I can read up on it.


----------



## NuverPlawd

Kubota 8540;1893414 said:


> Electric Ball Valves.
> 
> Most have 3/4 second on/off response. Those that have 4+second response time are used for regulating valves.
> 
> List the model # so I can read up on it.


(This was a find suggested by Terrapro)

TX2500B-1WP $64.20 +shipping










3-Way 12 Volt DC Solenoid Valve 3/4" NPT
Weather Pak
2500B 12-Volt DC Electric Boom Shutoff Valve has a 3/4" NPT female inlet, 3/4" NPT male bypass outlet and a 1/2" NPT female boom outlet. Totally enclosed epoxy encapsulated coil draws only 2 amps per valve at 12 volts. Equipped with Viton® seat and seal. Wetted parts consist of 430 stainless steel and chemical resistant glass filled nylon body. For multiple units, simply screw one valve to another. Has a weather pak connection.


----------



## MF 5455

I used the same type valve (s) on my 3 point hitch ag sprayer. Used 3-inline plus an electric pressure regulator. They worked very well for me.


----------



## NuverPlawd

MF 5455;1893558 said:


> I used the same type valve (s) on my 3 point hitch ag sprayer. Used 3-inline plus an electric pressure regulator. They worked very well for me.


Lookin good!


----------



## NuverPlawd

Kubota:









Also, these days you are talking about 88'... WTF changed?


----------



## woody617

Anybody see or have a walk behind liquid sprayer been looking online and was a little sticke shock for what I have found


----------



## terrapro

NuverPlawd;1893532 said:


> (This was a find suggested by Terrapro)
> 
> TX2500B-1WP $64.20 +shipping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3-Way 12 Volt DC Solenoid Valve 3/4" NPT
> Weather Pak
> 2500B 12-Volt DC Electric Boom Shutoff Valve has a 3/4" NPT female inlet, 3/4" NPT male bypass outlet and a 1/2" NPT female boom outlet. Totally enclosed epoxy encapsulated coil draws only 2 amps per valve at 12 volts. Equipped with Viton® seat and seal. Wetted parts consist of 430 stainless steel and chemical resistant glass filled nylon body. For multiple units, simply screw one valve to another. Has a weather pak connection.


Has anyone tried those yet? I need to order more for a new system and to have a spare sitting around...I just have experience with the Teejet valves.


----------



## terrapro

woody617;1893668 said:


> Anybody see or have a walk behind liquid sprayer been looking online and was a little sticke shock for what I have found


I have a design in my mind I have been kicking around for some time now. Very simple plan too, I should get on it...could probably patent it.


----------



## STARSHIP

woody617;1893668 said:


> Anybody see or have a walk behind liquid sprayer been looking online and was a little sticke shock for what I have found


I posted this question about a week ago, and was directed to this thread:

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=158873

This ended up being more of a sidewalk plowing thread, but you can use the Z-Spray to both salt with granular and liquid. If you look at the picture of the Z-Spray that the guy has set up, there are nozzles in the rear.

I know this piece of equipment isn't cheap, but it is a well built machine, and has a lot of stainless components. And, many of us are in lawn care, so owning a machine like that makes it turn into a multi-season piece of equipment, thus making it easier to justify the cost.

I hope to check out that piece of equipment this week.


----------



## kc2006

terrapro;1893701 said:


> Has anyone tried those yet? I need to order more for a new system and to have a spare sitting around...I just have experience with the Teejet valves.


I just scored a deal on a bunch of them, so hope they work. I'll know this week.


----------



## terrapro

kc2006;1894135 said:


> I just scored a deal on a bunch of them, so hope they work. I'll know this week.


Good for you! xysport
Let me know how they work out please!


----------



## White Gardens

Slowly getting the pre-wetting system together.

Got a shop to make my bar to mount my 100gal, Tailgate tank. Should be done in a couple of days. Then I can finalize the electric pump and hose.

For now I got the rotary nozzle mounted. Using a multi nozzle so I can dial in the correct rate. Using a 3 stream fertilizer tip. Might have to switch to a single stream nozzle depending on how it hits the spinner.


----------



## MF 5455

White Gardens;1894855 said:


> Slowly getting the pre-wetting system together.
> 
> Got a shop to make my bar to mount my 100gal, Tailgate tank. Should be done in a couple of days. Then I can finalize the electric pump and hose.
> 
> For now I got the rotary nozzle mounted. Using a multi nozzle so I can dial in the correct rate. Using a 3 stream fertilizer tip. Might have to switch to a single stream nozzle depending on how it hits the spinner.
> 
> View attachment 140032


I like that. Good idea. I have a Swenson tailgate spreader also, and have been contemplating on a pre wet system for it. If the tank hangs on to the tailgate, will it be in danger of any movement as the gate open and closes while raising the dump box ? How large is the tank you plan on using ? Will you operate the system with an electric pump ?


----------



## White Gardens

MF 5455;1894990 said:


> I like that. Good idea. I have a Swenson tailgate spreader also, and have been contemplating on a pre wet system for it. If the tank hangs on to the tailgate, will it be in danger of any movement as the gate open and closes while raising the dump box ? How large is the tank you plan on using ? Will you operate the system with an electric pump ?


The Tank won't actually hang on the tailgate. It's a 100gal tank that was meant to hang on a Larger Truck tailgate, such as a DOT Tandem axle.

What I do have is some side pillars that the previous owner installed to box in the Mason dump. So a bracket is going in between and the tank will hang off it. Then the bottom of the tank will rest on the top of the tailgate to help distribute the weight. I'll monitor it through a storm or two, and if I don't like how it's mounted, then Ill axe it and use a saddle tank on the frame of the truck.

Hard to explain, but I'll take pics once its done to make it all clear. Going with a 12v, 3.8gpm pump for now. The largest nozzle will produce 2gpm per minute at 40psi. Pump is rated for 45psi. Smallest nozzle will produce .60gpm at 40psi.

If I get into more strait liquid apps, I might try to plumb into my central hydro system to get more gpm's from a pump without having to use a gas motor.

....


----------



## MF 5455

White Gardens;1895040 said:


> The Tank won't actually hang on the tailgate. It's a 100gal tank that was meant to hang on a Larger Truck tailgate, such as a DOT Tandem axle.
> 
> What I do have is some side pillars that the previous owner installed to box in the Mason dump. So a bracket is going in between and the tank will hang off it. Then the bottom of the tank will rest on the top of the tailgate to help distribute the weight. I'll monitor it through a storm or two, and if I don't like how it's mounted, then Ill axe it and use a saddle tank on the frame of the truck.
> 
> Hard to explain, but I'll take pics once its done to make it all clear. Going with a 12v, 3.8gpm pump for now. The largest nozzle will produce 2gpm per minute at 40psi. Pump is rated for 45psi. Smallest nozzle will produce .60gpm at 40psi.
> 
> If I get into more strait liquid apps, I might try to plumb into my central hydro system to get more gpm's from a pump without having to use a gas motor.
> 
> ....


Ok. That's the reason I was asking. I have central hydraulics on my F550. I run my anti icing sprayer from that. I remove the large (625 gal) sprayer, and mount the Swenson tailgate spreader for those real cold icy conditions. I would like to use the hydraulics to run my pre wet system...which I have an Ace motor and pump set up for this purpose. But, I'm not a pro on hydraulics, and I know that somewhere in the system I need another valve and set of wet lines to run this. A small hyd pump can run off the auger exhaust oil, but this pump needs 7ish gallons to operate. I have a Force America twin valve set up on truck for spreader, and a regular valve body for truck hoist. Any thoughts on how I can add to this to run my pump ?


----------



## leigh

I was going to mount my prewet tank up front on bed,I don't have power down and my dump has a hard time coming down when it is 1/3 empty.Doent want more weight in rear.Does anyone else have this problem with ut salters?


----------



## White Gardens

MF 5455;1895068 said:


> Ok. But, I'm not a pro on hydraulics, and I know that somewhere in the system I need another valve and set of wet lines to run this. A small hyd pump can run off the auger exhaust oil, but this pump needs 7ish gallons to operate. I have a Force America twin valve set up on truck for spreader, and a regular valve body for truck hoist. Any thoughts on how I can add to this to run my pump ?


There is about 3 different ways that I think you can do it. (but bear in mind I'm no hydro expert).

1.) You could T-into the auger lines and use a diverter valve and run the water pump. This would minimize the amount of flow to the auger, but in all reality, do you ever run the auger at full speed? In my case, (which I haven't had a chance to run my newer truck) I wouldn't run the auger past 3 out of 11 on the control valve. Without doing the calculations, I suspect I was only running the auger at 1/3rd of capacity. So I feel there is plenty of flow still left in the auger line to run a pump. But....the pump speed would be affected by the flow to the auger. But in the case of pre-wetting, how much output do you really need. So ultimately, it would be the easiest solution as long as you were getting enough flow to the pump. Other option would be is to run it off the spinner, thus giving you more flow as in my case I run the spinner at a higher setting, and you could just adjust the spray output by a relief valve and the correct nozzles.

In both cases, the auger and the spinner share the same return line, so you would just need to T into the return for the pump return line.

2.) The control valve for the salt spreader generally runs from the output of the valve body for the dump and plow controls. The output runs from there to the salt spreader controls and then back to the wet box. So it's in essence two different valve bodies running off the circular flow. You could in essence tap into that line in the cab, add another valve body there and run the line back to the pump, then tapping into the return line for the salt spreader.

3.) Most valve bodies for the dump bed and plow controls are stackable, meaning you can add to the valve body that already exists for the dump bed and add an extra one-way valve to control the water pump. Then just run one line back to the pump, put a cable control in the cab, and tap into the return line in the back.

Personally, I think option 1 is the easiest way to go. Then you would have the on-demand so that every time you turned on the salt spreader, then the pump would automatically engage. All it would take is to build two specialty couplers that would hook into your exist couplers. Basically making on coupler outlet into two. This way if you don't use the tank and pump, you could take out the splitter, and just directly hook the spreader up the way you normally would. Only other thing you would need is a manual on-off valve at the pump so that you could turn it off completely if your tank went empty, or you just wanted to throw salt.

This is something we did back home on the farm with older tractors that only had one remote outlet in the back. We would use a specialty coupler that turned the two ports into four. You could easily make one yourself.

And this has gotten me thinking more, and I might go this route. I do have a hydraulic pump on the tank I purchased, though I don't know if it's still operational or not. Might need to take it off and to a shop and have them look at it first and figure out money wise what is the better direction to go.



leigh;1895323 said:


> I was going to mount my prewet tank up front on bed,I don't have power down and my dump has a hard time coming down when it is 1/3 empty.Doent want more weight in rear.Does anyone else have this problem with ut salters?


Luckily, with my old truck, and the newer one I have, the hinge point for the dump bed is clear at the rear of the bed and frame. Not sure if I actually have a power down feature. But it always goes down regardless.

I am worried about how I'm going to mount the tank, and if this is going to be an issue or not. I need to get the tank mounted and fill it with water to test it out first, If it doesn't work, I"ll be like you and mounting it in the front of the bed of the truck. I do have another option in that I have space on one side of the truck on the frame to mount a saddle tank on the frame. Though I might be limited on the size of the tank with the space provided. Some companies out there also make tanks that go in between the headboard of the dump body and the cab, but you have to have the space for that and you would have to take measurements to ensure that you do.

.....


----------



## White Gardens

And here is the pics of the tank, and rails that I've been speaking of.

Might have to mount the tank backwards, but we'll see.


----------



## MF 5455

White Gardens

OK. thanks for the info. BTW, your pre wet tank is looking good. My concern would be with the salt/ sand near to the rear of truck, and tank with liquid right over the pivot point, it may be slow in coming down.

My 550 has an engine mounted pump for hydraulics. Clutch driven. There is the loop for the main valve body for the raising of dump box. There is another pressure line going from the main valve body to the Force America valve system. It has 2 electric solenoids which operate the tailgate spreader from an electric power box located in the cab. There are no hydraulic lines coming into the truck. So this unit is a loop to and from the main valve. Plus the exhaust oil goes into T, which goes back into reservoir.

My thought on this... I wanted to be able to run the pre wet pump independently without interfering with the spreader, or vice versa. I may need to spread only sand, and not need the liquid.

My research and conversation with a hydraulic shop was this. I need a 1 way solenoid valve with an open center. This way, there wouldn't be any restrictions in the system so the other hydraulics are free. The valve is called a DO5 control with the manifold. $250.00 . Part # SW4-GO3-C6B-AC12V-20. Hoses and fittings around $450.00 . Labor to cut into the main lines and do the installation another $425.00 . Looking at $1,000.00 if I have shop do it. 

The other option is to do what you suggested. Put a jumper in and hope it works. 

The engine mounted pump presently on truck produces 17 gpm. The auger uses 9 gpm, I think, and spinner uses 5. I believe this would be under full load. I think for pre wetting, the pump would be barely operating. One, maybe 2 -1/2" hoses run to spinner ?? The pre wet pump motor uses 7 gpm I think. 

I have a perfectly good 3 point hitch sprayer that I thought about using. Already set up ready to be used with few simple modifications. But holding off because of the extra set of wet lines needed.

I love the hydraulic set up tho. No gas can, it is quiet, and very compact. 

jim


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Great prices on valves.

http://www.boydsequipment.com/products/184-bolted-ball-valves.aspx


----------



## kc2006

For those of you with PVC booms, are you just using standard pvc and gluing them together?

I'm doing a cheap boom to start with pvc then going to galvanized once I get it how I want it.


----------



## White Gardens

MF 5455;1896665 said:


> White Gardens
> My concern would be with the salt/ sand near to the rear of truck, and tank with liquid right over the pivot point, it may be slow in coming down.
> 
> *Very much a concern I have, If it doesn't work, I'm going to mount it backwards, if that doesn't work, I'll end up having to mount it in the bed at the front of the truck.*
> 
> My thought on this... I wanted to be able to run the pre wet pump independently without interfering with the spreader, or vice versa. I may need to spread only sand, and not need the liquid.
> 
> *I'd just do a manual shutoff valve at the water pump. Sucks to get out of the truck, but would be a quick fix.*
> 
> My research and conversation with a hydraulic shop was this. I need a 1 way solenoid valve with an open center. This way, there wouldn't be any restrictions in the system so the other hydraulics are free. The valve is called a DO5 control with the manifold. $250.00 . Part # SW4-GO3-C6B-AC12V-20. Hoses and fittings around $450.00 . Labor to cut into the main lines and do the installation another $425.00 . Looking at $1,000.00 if I have shop do it.
> 
> *Would be no cutting, just unhook one of the outlet hoses, insert solenoid valve, then a short jumper hose to tie the system back in. Also, not sure exactly where you are located, but I use Motion Industries for my hydro hoses, couplers and valves. Usually about 1/3-1/2 the price for the same quality parts. There is one in Bellville and Brockville.*
> 
> The other option is to do what you suggested. Put a jumper in and hope it works.
> 
> *I would go that route first. Just remember, for a pre-wetting system, your output will be minimal compared to what the water pump will put out. So even if you are at 3gpm's a minute, the water pressure and gpm's might be sufficient for pre-wetting. I'd say as long as you have at least 20psi from the water pump, your in good shape. The most I'm getting out of the largest nozzle I have is 2gpm's at 40psi. At 20psi, I would be at 1.41 with the same nozzle, which is probably still going to be more than enough *
> 
> jim


.........................


----------



## White Gardens

Nice graph in this link.

http://www.acepumps.com/en/index.php?/site/products/C4/Hydraulic/

......


----------



## terrapro

kc2006;1896987 said:


> For those of you with PVC booms, are you just using standard pvc and gluing them together?
> 
> I'm doing a cheap boom to start with pvc then going to galvanized once I get it how I want it.


Yep. If I remember correctly 7" is the spacing I used for the holes


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Does anybody plow with their sprayer loaded in their truck? I've only got two trucks one is a plow truck one is our sidewalk truck. The truck is full of shovels, snow blowers and other tools.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

*new to liquid this year.*

hello all. been following this site for a wile. would like to show some pics of what we put together for this year. with salt prices so high we are going to go straight liquid. would like to thank kabota for all he does on here. so here are the pics . I have a 900 gallon tank and a 2 inch gas pump on my one ton . with a 3 stage boom. left center and right. its self loading and self empty. also a 100 foot hose real. . oh and just came up with my sidewalk buddy today. old fertilizer walk behind sacrificed for the greater good.


----------



## kc2006

bytheyardlandsc;1897770 said:


> hello all. been following this site for a wile. would like to show some pics of what we put together for this year. with salt prices so high we are going to go straight liquid. would like to thank kabota for all he does on here. so here are the pics . I have a 900 gallon tank and a 2 inch gas pump on my one ton . with a 3 stage boom. left center and right. its self loading and self empty. also a 100 foot hose real. . oh and just came up with my sidewalk buddy today. old fertilizer walk behind sacrificed for the greater good.


I'd love you long time if you got some close ups of the boom!!! Looks just like I'm doing.


----------



## kc2006

Todays question from me. Can you use nylon fittings? I got all my polypropylene fittings and started putting it all together but need a couple more fittings and can't get them anywhere around here. Only thing I'm seeing are nylon. Any downfalls to using them?

Aside from hooking up the couple hoses and assembling my boom I have everything else plumbed and valves wired up, I had it all planned ahead of time but changed a few things once I got it all mounted on the pallet for aesthetics so now I'm short a few fittings. This thread has been great for learning though, couldn't have done it without it.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

*close up of boom*

the 3 stage boom is all pvc. holes are 1/16th inch spacing is every 12 inches on center section. on side booms same hole size about 1 inch apart . the trick is seperating sides from center. I used a 1 inch plug at the 45 elbow. grinded it to fit and glued half in 45 elbow and other half in the tee. this way its one unit but 3 stages. left , center , right hope this helps.


----------



## balky22

A few pages back you guys helped me with temp questions for the hydrometer readings. Thank you for your help


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

valleyviewlawns;1897564 said:


> Does anybody plow with their sprayer loaded in their truck? I've only got two trucks one is a plow truck one is our sidewalk truck. The truck is full of shovels, snow blowers and other tools.


yes I plow with my sprayer in my truck. but I only carry about 600 gallons in it when plowing. my other trucks have 275 totes in them and they help out with the rest that I need on a plowing day.


----------



## kc2006

Thanks for the pic, that's pretty much what I was going to do, but I was going to make separate small booms for each side and use clamps to hold them to the center one (using angle iron to give strength to the center one). 

I'm full of questions for you guys tonight. For the "throttling valve", can you use a ball valve or does it have to be a specific throttle valve?

One last question, I have those 3/4" valves posted a couple pages ago, they're a bypass style valve, should I have one return line to the tank after the valves with the throttle valve located there. Or can I have 2 return lines, one before the valves with a throttle valve there, and then a return line after the valves? Only reason I was going to do 2 is because the valves are only 3/4" and I thought it wouldn't flow enough to circulate back to the tank, so I was doing a 1" line before and 1" line after the valves.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

you only need one return line. water flow should go through your valve with your , what your calling thotlling valve I call a pressure valve . so to clear this up water out of pump through valves and pressure valve after that. this way if you want more pressure just close valve some more. ... my boom is attached to a 1/2 inch piece of rebar. used hose clamps. works fine. oh and yes I just use a ball valve


----------



## valleyviewlawns

bytheyardlandsc;1897835 said:


> yes I plow with my sprayer in my truck. but I only carry about 600 gallons in it when plowing. my other trucks have 275 totes in them and they help out with the rest that I need on a plowing day.


I just use a Super Duty F-250 and will probably only haul about 200 gallons at a time. Wasn't sure if that extra weight made plowing any harder.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

my buddy uses a 330 gallon tote and plows with it. but you need to baffle the tank. on a 330 we used 100 foot of 3 inch perforated drain pipe . in my 900 gallon tank I used 250 foot of 4 inch perforated drain pipe. just buy the pipe and start stuffing it in the tank., locks up the water no sea sickness here. lol


----------



## valleyviewlawns

bytheyardlandsc;1898142 said:


> my buddy uses a 330 gallon tote and plows with it. but you need to baffle the tank. on a 330 we used 100 foot of 3 inch perforated drain pipe . in my 900 gallon tank I used 250 foot of 4 inch perforated drain pipe. just buy the pipe and start stuffing it in the tank., locks up the water no sea sickness here. lol


 Do you feed the whole roll into the tank or cut it up into sections? I guess it wouldn't matter really, maybe one way works better than the other.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

just feed the whole roll in.one peice


----------



## terrapro

valleyviewlawns;1898319 said:


> Do you feed the whole roll into the tank or cut it up into sections? I guess it wouldn't matter really, maybe one way works better than the other.


Ive heard both but I just feed the whole roll in. If you do chunks you have to basically fill it with it from what Ive heard.


----------



## Kubota 8540

terrapro;1898395 said:


> Ive heard both but I just feed the whole roll in. If you do chunks you have to basically fill it with it from what Ive heard.


For me trying to feed the roll of tubing in the tank was a total p.i.t.a. (I suppose it also depends on the type of tank you are using?)

So I just started cutting the tubing into 18-24" pieces and fill about 3/4 of the tank. Dont cut the tubing the easy way with a chop saw etc.cut it up with a utility razor knife. The chop saw leaves TOO many plastic shards that will haunt you for a very long time.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

bytheyardlandsc;1897827 said:


> the 3 stage boom is all pvc. holes are 1/16th inch spacing is every 12 inches on center section. on side booms same hole size about 1 inch apart . the trick is seperating sides from center. I used a 1 inch plug at the 45 elbow. grinded it to fit and glued half in 45 elbow and other half in the tee. this way its one unit but 3 stages. left , center , right hope this helps.


Are there any nozzle bodies or nozzles on that boom? Just drill the holes? You've lost your mind! Thumbs Up


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Just drilled holes. I'm also using a bought liquid from nature's source. So my boom doesn't clog up.


----------



## Jet Stream

If anyone wants a no-obligation quote for liquid calcium chloride blend, we deliver by the truck load (4400 gallons) All I need is your delivery zip and email. Have you seen our ad here on Plowsite for bulk and bagged salt also???
Susan, Jet Stream Fuels, 786-566-0195, [email protected]

While exact concentrations will vary slightly, our product contains: 
21 to 24% Calcium Chloride
4.11 to 5% Magnesium Chloride
1.68 to 2% Potassium Chloride
3.78 to 4% Sodium Chloride


----------



## 86 CJ

Hey kabota and others, need some brine making help.


Snow patrol and I made our first batch of brine today using the basic 275(2) tote setup and pump. We put 1000lbs of bagged rocksalt in, added water, fired up the pump. It was flowing well, had build up in the first tote corners, but we manually stirred that up. After 30 min we checked with brinometer and we were at 70%, so we then added more water, pumped for another 15min. We have like 500 gallons in the totes, but can't get the salinity to drop: we are in MD, does temp of water play a big role?


----------



## valleyviewlawns

86 CJ;1900046 said:


> Hey kabota and others, need some brine making help.
> 
> Snow patrol and I made our first batch of brine today using the basic 275(2) tote setup and pump. We put 1000lbs of bagged rocksalt in, added water, fired up the pump. It was flowing well, had build up in the first tote corners, but we manually stirred that up. After 30 min we checked with brinometer and we were at 70%, so we then added more water, pumped for another 15min. We have like 500 gallons in the totes, but can't get the salinity to drop: we are in MD, does temp of water play a big role?


Your salimeter should have the temperature adjustment scale on the instruction paper. What are your temps?


----------



## 86 CJ

valleyviewlawns;1900056 said:


> Your salimeter should have the temperature adjustment scale on the instruction paper. What are your temps?


Ok, not sure of the water temp coming from hose, will get my buddy to find that out, then look up chart.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

86 CJ;1900123 said:


> Ok, not sure of the water temp coming from hose, will get my buddy to find that out, then look up chart.


Kubota posted the chart in this post a while back.


----------



## 86 CJ

valleyviewlawns;1900165 said:


> Kubota posted the chart in this post a while back.


Thanks, just grabbed it and will check temps tomorrow.


----------



## MF 5455

86 CJ;1900046 said:


> Hey kabota and others, need some brine making help.
> 
> Snow patrol and I made our first batch of brine today using the basic 275(2) tote setup and pump. We put 1000lbs of bagged rocksalt in, added water, fired up the pump. It was flowing well, had build up in the first tote corners, but we manually stirred that up. After 30 min we checked with brinometer and we were at 70%, so we then added more water, pumped for another 15min. We have like 500 gallons in the totes, but can't get the salinity to drop: we are in MD, does temp of water play a big role?


What type of hydrometer are you using ?

0-100% saturation hydrometer ? If so, your brine reading should be at 91%.

If you are using a 0-26% by weight hydrometer, the brine reading should be at 23.5%.

If you are using a specific gravity hydrometer,, the reading should be at 1.176 on the scale.


----------



## 86 CJ

MF 5455;1900199 said:


> What type of hydrometer are you using ?
> 
> 0-100% saturation hydrometer ? If so, your brine reading should be at 91%.
> 
> If you are using a 0-26% by weight hydrometer, the brine reading should be at 23.5%.
> 
> If you are using a specific gravity hydrometer,, the reading should be at 1.176 on the scale.


Good question, it goes up to 100, so that would make more sense why we are so far from 23.5, but closer to the 91. I will talk to my buddy who bought it tomorrow, thanks


----------



## MF 5455

86 CJ;1900238 said:


> Good question, it goes up to 100, so that would make more sense why we are so far from 23.5, but closer to the 91. I will talk to my buddy who bought it tomorrow, thanks


I think this is the chart that was downloaded on this site previously.


----------



## spiviter

This is the way I make a batch in the 275 gallon totes. For a 500 gallon batch. 500 gallons x .9 is 450 gallons of water. Then I add salt till I reach the 500 gallon mark then run the batch. This gets me close for the first salinity test. then I add more salt or water as needed.


----------



## 86 CJ

spiviter;1900525 said:


> This is the way I make a batch in the 275 gallon totes. For a 500 gallon batch. 500 gallons x .9 is 450 gallons of water. Then I add salt till I reach the 500 gallon mark then run the batch. This gets me close for the first salinity test. then I add more salt or water as needed.


Thanks for the info Thumbs Up So i found that we were just using the wrong chart with the the Hydrometer we have. We are at like 70 and just need to get it to 91. I think we will add more salt later and retest.

So you are filling up with 450gallons(water)then adding about 1250 lbs of salt, or when the totes are almost full, then letting the pump do its thing??


----------



## Frosty123

I want to know if using liquid works as well as rock salt. I have been doing snow removal for years and I am set up for using bulk salt with truck spreaders. Using liquids interest me because the spray rigs may be less maintenence, i wouldn't need to cover and keep dry like a salt pile and loading with a pump is less expensive/easier than a dedicated skidsteer.
I pay $84.00 a ton for bulk salt delivered. What are the prices of bulk calcium chloride? Also why would salt brine be more effective than spreading salt crystals?
any info appreciated.


----------



## leigh

Frosty123;1901329 said:


> I want to know if using liquid works as well as rock salt. I have been doing snow removal for years and I am set up for using bulk salt with truck spreaders. Using liquids interest me because the spray rigs may be less maintenence, i wouldn't need to cover and keep dry like a salt pile and loading with a pump is less expensive/easier than a dedicated skidsteer.
> I pay $84.00 a ton for bulk salt delivered. What are the prices of bulk calcium chloride? Also why would salt brine be more effective than spreading salt crystals?
> any info appreciated.


If you do a search you'll all the info you need.There have been long discusions on subject.Seems like liquid has it's place,just not a do it all for all conditions.Just another arrow in your quiver.


----------



## White Gardens

86 CJ;1900541 said:


> So you are filling up with 450gallons(water)then adding about 1250 lbs of salt, or when the totes are almost full, then letting the pump do its thing??


Pretty much. Putting the majority of your salt in first then makes sure that you aren't putting in too much water into your tanks. We came really close to over-flowing our lower tank when we added the salt after filling them with water.

The problem we are having with our setup is the blow-by from our over-flow into the lower tank. The pump we are using is agitating the salt so well that we have been throttling it back to minimize blow-by into the lower tank. We've got a couple screens set up to catch the undissolved salt that blows by.

We have only been emptying the lower tank (approx 250 gallons) with each batch. Reason being is that we haven't plumbed in a drain pipe for the upper tank, and we are only getting 300 gallons for each batch with our supply tank. We've found it much easier and faster just to go to the local municipality water supply a few blocks away and just fill up there for our batches rather than using a garden hose.

The biggest problem is the bigger salt not completely dissolving. So the upper tank is allowed to sit with the majority of the foreign material,excess salt and sediment. This is helping us to keep most of the foreign material out of our storage tank. We are also using a cone bottom, 1400 gal tank, so it will be allowed to sit, and anything that will settle out of the solution will go to the bottom of the cone. The initial solution we pull from the tank we can put in a bucket or whatever and get some of the silt out of the solution.

Some of you guys might look at me funny when I say this, but we are actually only mixing our batches to approx. 21.5%. This gives us an absolute freezing point of zero. Rarely in our winters do we ever dip below zero. Last year was the exception as we had maybe 2-3 nights dip into negative territory, but rebounded above zero when the sun came up.

So our thinking is, 0* is a good absolute number. We are then using a bit less salt for our mix, and we can play with some liquid calcium and beat juice with our mixes on the trucks, knowing that 0* is our absolute freezing point.

Not sure if it's the right idea, but we'll see.

.....

.....


----------



## Kubota 8540

White Gardens;1901992 said:


> Pretty much. Putting the majority of your salt in first then makes sure that you aren't putting in too much water into your tanks. We came really close to over-flowing our lower tank when we added the salt after filling them with water.
> 
> The problem we are having with our setup is the blow-by from our over-flow into the lower tank. The pump we are using is agitating the salt so well that we have been throttling it back to minimize blow-by into the lower tank. We've got a couple screens set up to catch the undissolved salt that blows by.
> 
> We have only been emptying the lower tank (approx 250 gallons) with each batch. Reason being is that we haven't plumbed in a drain pipe for the upper tank, and we are only getting 300 gallons for each batch with our supply tank. We've found it much easier and faster just to go to the local municipality water supply a few blocks away and just fill up there for our batches rather than using a garden hose.
> 
> The biggest problem is the bigger salt not completely dissolving. So the upper tank is allowed to sit with the majority of the foreign material,excess salt and sediment. This is helping us to keep most of the foreign material out of our storage tank. We are also using a cone bottom, 1400 gal tank, so it will be allowed to sit, and anything that will settle out of the solution will go to the bottom of the cone. The initial solution we pull from the tank we can put in a bucket or whatever and get some of the silt out of the solution.
> 
> Some of you guys might look at me funny when I say this, but we are actually only mixing our batches to approx. 21.5%. This gives us an absolute freezing point of zero. Rarely in our winters do we ever dip below zero. Last year was the exception as we had maybe 2-3 nights dip into negative territory, but rebounded above zero when the sun came up.
> 
> So our thinking is, 0* is a good absolute number. We are then using a bit less salt for our mix, and we can play with some liquid calcium and beat juice with our mixes on the trucks, knowing that 0* is our absolute freezing point.
> 
> Not sure if it's the right idea, but we'll see.
> 
> .....
> 
> .....


What is the temp of the water when you are making the brine?


----------



## 86 CJ

Kubota 8540;1902300 said:


> What is the temp of the water when you are making the brine?


Our Well water that we are using is 53.6 degrees f.


----------



## White Gardens

Right at 50*



......


----------



## Kubota 8540

White Gardens;1902389 said:


> Right at 50*
> 
> ......


If I remember the chart that came with my Salimeter correctly. The water temp being 20 degrees less than the 60 degree salimeter calibration, then the correct reading would be 22.25% to be at the lowest freezing point possible.

For every 10 degree cooler water temp from 60F your salimeter reading should be .625 less on your salimeter. Or for every 20 degree cooler than 60F then it would be 1.25 less than 23.3%.


----------



## turn54

White Gardens;1901992 said:


> Some of you guys might look at me funny when I say this, but we are actually only mixing our batches to approx. 21.5%. This gives us an absolute freezing point of zero. Rarely in our winters do we ever dip below zero. Last year was the exception as we had maybe 2-3 nights dip into negative territory, but rebounded above zero when the sun came up.
> 
> So our thinking is, 0* is a good absolute number. We are then using a bit less salt for our mix, and we can play with some liquid calcium and beat juice with our mixes on the trucks, knowing that 0* is our absolute freezing point.
> 
> Not sure if it's the right idea, but we'll see.
> 
> .....
> 
> .....


Nick,
I usually do the opposite and make my mix closer to 25%. My thinking is the solution starts diluting once applied (I only apply post plow). Therefore less chance of refreeze. I understand this obviously requires more salt usage for the brine, but I feel it's minimal cost compared to the benefits(even if it's just peace of mind)


----------



## White Gardens

turn54;1902472 said:


> Nick,
> I usually do the opposite and make my mix closer to 25%. My thinking is the solution starts diluting once applied (I only apply post plow). Therefore less chance of refreeze. I understand this obviously requires more salt usage for the brine, but I feel it's minimal cost compared to the benefits(even if it's just peace of mind)


That is a an extremely good point. Basically putting more actual salt down, even though your freeze point might be higher.

Really in essence, any liquid brine application will dilute when it hits the snow or ice that it's melting.

Something to think about with our next batches.

Also, with this thinking, should people really being making batches that suit their part of the globe they are applying it?

What I mean is, if you live in an area where your over-night lows are dipping into the negatives every night and barely get warm during the day, then you would want the lowest freeze point possible I'm guessing so your batches don't start to freeze.

But if you live in a warmer area, then hitting say the 25% mark, then you get more actual salt applied per application.

..


----------



## White Gardens

Here is something else I want to bring up also.

Is temperature correction really necessary?

Between 60* and 32*, you only see a one thousandth difference in specific gravity.

With hydrometers needing to be clean, upper part needs to be dry, and reading the actual water level and not the meniscus.

I guess what I'm getting at is that there are more variables that might give an incorrect reading rather than water temperature being a major variable.

Here's a calculator for giggles.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/hydrometer-temp/

I guess what I'm saying is, that we are generally using floating hydrometers because we are cheap. If we were actually being scientific about it, and measure to the right of a decimal three places, then I can see where everything has to be perfect.

.....


----------



## turn54

White Gardens;1902489 said:


> That is a an extremely good point. Basically putting more actual salt down, even though your freeze point might be higher.
> 
> Really in essence, any liquid brine application will dilute when it hits the snow or ice that it's melting.
> 
> Something to think about with our next batches.
> 
> Also, with this thinking, should people really being making batches that suit their part of the globe they are applying it?
> 
> What I mean is, if you live in an area where your over-night lows are dipping into the negatives every night and barely get warm during the day, then you would want the lowest freeze point possible I'm guessing so your batches don't start to freeze.
> 
> But if you live in a warmer area, then hitting say the 25% mark, then you get more actual salt applied per application.
> 
> ..


In order to not derail the thread (this is more product related rather than applicators), I have started a new thread "Is 23% salt brine really the most efficient" in reply


----------



## panduro

*bit of advice would be appriciated*

Hey Guys,

have been lurking here for a long time, have gone thought all the pages in this thread and a lot of other posts about brine. as I'm a bit daft or maybe just somewhat insecure I'm looking for a bit of advice.

I'm new to liquids(exept beer wine and liquor), used a similar trailer sprayer last year in like 10 events(got stolen  ). but i honestly i haven't figured out the necessary amounts to put down.

This is one of my three snow/ice rigs. the biggest client for this rig is
10km/6.5 miles of sidewalk.
i live in denmark northern europe, at our snow events we have night temperatures that rarely are below -5c/23f, normally being around 0C/32f and rising to 4c/40F during day. above 23f we mostly have high moist snow, below low moist snow.

my tool carrier uses a hydraulic driven broom and we always sweep, we don't burn of snow with salt/liquid. so the goal is always to see "clean" tiles or else sweeping isn't good enough… off course we do have a bit of hardpack
because of the sidewalks being used that is not always completely removable with sweeping. we sweep and deice in 1 go.

sprayer is as you can see a commercial unit, bought at an action at a good price. its hydraulic driven by the wheels and automatically adjust the amount of liquid to my speed. for now i will stay with pure salt brine 23,3%.

this is the point where my lacking math can skills ruins my "well" thought out thread 
The sprayer standard it gives me the choice between 20ml/m2 and 40ml/m2, 
in gallons to acres that would be: 21,4 and 42,7 gallons pr acre.(if my conversions are correct).
sounds like to little to me, but thats only based on threads here saying between 80-100gallaon pr acres…
if that is to little i do have an extra option. that would be to use the sprayers side sprayer(which i have no use for currently) pumps and just build an extra boom.

this would give me double up, which means that i would have the choice between 21,4 - 42,7 and 85,5 gallons pr acres.

What do u guys think, should i build an extra boom?
if so, can somebody help me make a parts list?

best regards

ben from denmark in mid december with 50 degrees f


----------



## MF 5455

Ben...

Welcome to plow site. Nice to hear from you, and see pictures of what equipment looks like from other parts of the world. It sure appears to have the capabilities to do the excellent job needed on the sidewalks. The liquid trailer / applicator is set up nice also.

Through research and much on line reading about salt brine applications, I think the rule of thumb around here is 45-50 gallons / lane / mile.

It sounds through reading your story, that you try to keep the walkways clean and snow free when it's possible. If your temps are between 23 and 32 F., that means that the moisture or humidity would be greater than let's say 0- 10 deg. Fah. I think the calculations that are set up for your sprayer are probably very accurate. Our European friends seem to be the pioneers for the brine spraying, and even the more sophisticated snow removal equipment. I like the compact sizing of the winter equipment. One machine is diversified to accomplish different actions. 

There are of course many opinions, and some are changing the way they mix their brine and apply it. I personally like to stay with the recipe of 23.3%. My reasoning for this is I do several commercial lots, and if there are ever any slip and fall accidents, I can prove by way of documentation the brine used is according to standard procedure. We carry a 5 million dollar liability coverage, (pretty much standard here) for our winter snow removal. I must be vigilant in keeping diaries and daily records of where / what / when, and how much de icing we do. I personally prefer to stay with the thought out, tried and tested formula of 23.3%.

I sprayed my parking lots this a.m. Temps were hovering around the freezing mark. The asphalt was still damp as of last night from previous rain. I probably could have chosen not to spray, but at .10 / gallon for my brine, I chose to throw caution to the wind and spray to prevent the surface freeze or sidewalk glazing.

Good luck on your quest for proper answers. Good to hear from you.


----------



## panduro

Hello Mf and thanks for the warm welcome  

i know what you mean, at first when i found this site i was "shocked" about the gear you guys uses 
thank you for the roses about my rig, it is very effective on the sidewalks also on smaller parking lots, we only do smaller lots, nothing big.
Even with the trailer it turns on a "dime" and the broom is reversible so i can sweep backwards also.
my clients are close so the longest transport for any of my rigs is a 10minut drive so we don't even need to load it on a truck. 
you are right, they do have many possible tools also, i have cutting boards for 2 of them so we can do large green areas(but don't have the clients for that size lawn gear yet) so i use my zero turn grasshopper instead. hope to find a good deal on leef suckers(lol bad english), hedge trimmer etc. used for them also. so i can venture into that marked also.(random rambling )

45 gallons pr lane/mile hmm, how wide is a lane?

sounds like a sensible ideer, i luckily don't have to do that, if people fall its very hard for them to win a lawsuit in denmark anyways, and I'm not even liable, all my contracts are made so that i can't be made responsible for enjuries … but i don't want anybody to get hurt and i want to give my clients the best possible service.

yes i prefer to see the pavement/tiles before i deice. that means less salt everywhere, including internal stairs and so on. salt gets everything so filthy and ****s most things up. i run a small janitor service compagny so i or my guys have to clean it inside also so we don't like to make it worse… which is also the reason I'm going to liquids instead of rocksalt. 
minimal mess ..

i read some times that over aplying brine can make a skating ring. i do not understand why this happens.
except it the temperature goes below its freezing point. what are the other possible reasons?

best regards

ben


----------



## MF 5455

Ben...

A 2 lane road, let's say...secondary road, will have lane widths of 12'. This theory could be some off, considering most contractors who are hired by the MTO, (ministry of transportation Ontario) will cut as many corners as possible to save a few liters/ pennies / time, whatever. So, they have downsized the nozzle tips on the extreme right side of the lane they're spraying, and the most liquid hits the center of roadway. A couple of them had been monitored, and subsequently fired from their renewal contract. :realmad:

ALL of our contracts involving snow removal have a distinguished clause in there deeming the contractor to be at fault for any slip and fall, or accident on said parking lot due to icy conditions. Store / business owners are off the hook. They pass the complaint straight through to the contractor. A couple of our lots are 5 acre areas, one maybe 7-8 acre. Rest of them are smaller in size. I use about 400-500 gallons of brine when I go to anti ice. (before the storm). I'm trying to spray approx. 45-50 gallons per acre, but without a flow meter, or speed sensor, I visually mark the holding tank, and know from that how much I use. Sometimes I go over, sometimes less.

Do you have a snow blade that attaches to front of your snow equipment ?

Funny you say you were shocked at our equipment :laughing::laughing:
If it's not the latest / biggest / baddest / most expensive, than you should just sit on the porch and watch. Bad thinking, but that's how it is in North America. I'm somewhat guilty of this myself, but I have worked hard, spent many nights in the cab, pushing snow. Soon be 40 years !!! 3 more winters, and if all goes as planned, I will be finished with the snow business.

Jim tymusic


----------



## panduro

Serves Them right if they do so to cut corners intentionally.

I get the ideer about the clause, it makes good sence, but id rather avoid it. 

What about de-ice, u use Brine for that also?

I Saw a combined broom where the plow when not in use flippede behind the broom, loved the combo ideer but then Saw it in use, quite honestly, it sucked both as plow and broom... Then i choose to forget that...

No i dont even own a plow, have had more than a coupé of events where i would have loved to have plows during the last 6 years, but quality brooms and welmaintained hydraulic systems are suprisingly toughf, just need to move slower to get a good result going thought 6" of wet heavy snow. But i offcourse dont need to move my snow big distances to get rid of it... If i stumple on a sutable plow on an auction il bid, woul be Nice to have it if not for other times than the freak storm that gives10inches in 5 hours... Never tryed plowing...

Nice, retirement or just possible to step out of the Cab urself? 40 years wow.
Everything seems so Big, Big pickups, huge tractors, dumptrucks and so on. 
but its not that Weird when thinking about it, bigger lots and bigger traveling distances... Kind of makes sence, but its still Strange to me that there is so little rotary broms... residentiAl buildings and sidewalks are the place where brooms are King... U do have sidewalks i hope


----------



## MF 5455

Ben

Yes, I us brine for post snow events, if it's called for. Often where we live, after a snow event it will turn ungodly cold. Maybe be 0 to minus 2 Celc., during the storm, and than drop to minus 20 or lower after. If I spray before the storm, (anti-ice), and get the lots cleared immediately after the storm has subsided, the lots will partially melt off on their own from the brine. A few of the lots are warehouse terminals, so the requirements there are more lax than at the grocery stores. Usually there we de ice immediately, since there will be lots of foot traffic.
I was using sand/salt mix until 3 winters ago. Now we have all but eliminated that material, unless we have a major ice storm where there is 5cm (2") of ice as was the case in Dec 2013. It turned very cold after the ice storm, 0 to minus 10 fah., and pure rock salt and or brine wouldn't / couldn't be effective. The sand / salt was used mostly for traction....gritty surface.

If the weather is warm, as above or close to the freezing mark,and it snows say 5 cm or more, brine will dilute much faster and more than one spray is needed, or else we use just rock salt. I purchased rock salt here by the dump truck load for $97.00 Cdn., per metric tonne. That would be 2,200 lbs U.S. weight. So, making brine for me costs around 10 -15 cents per gallon figuring fuel to transport, etc., etc. We purchased a good used S.S. brine plant this fall. We make 1,400- 1,500 gallons at a time, or if water is unlimited, it is capable of 5,000 gallons per day.

Jim tymusic


----------



## panduro

that is a nice brinemaker.. lol my diy brine maker can make 250 gallons at a time . 
but i don't have the space for a bigger one. if i did make a bigger one, it would just take up space from my tanks for finished product.. only got space for just over 2000 gallons as it is…

in future i expect to build a better one, as mine is driven on 2 sump pumps and its slow to work with. 

but then again my trailerspray only holds 260 gallons and I'm still working on getting my other 2 tool carriers fitted with brine sprayers also. they will be a lot smaller, like 85 gallons each.
those will be on the tool carriers engine lids. bought 2 tanks with cradles and electric pumps(no booms or nothing) and a even smaller 55 gallon hydraulic sprayer with manual amount control from the sprayer and in cab on/off hardwired switch. got ill all at a decent price, auction again…

plan is to move the hydraulic gear to one of the 85 gal tanks with cradles and remove electric pump and build new boom/booms for it.

plan for the other 85 gal. tank is to use both electric pumps, either with electric control or manuel depending on prize and build 2 booms for it. 

should i make a separate thread for my projects or just keep it here in this thread ?

have a nice weekend 

ben


----------



## MF 5455

panduro;1905055 said:


> that is a nice brinemaker.. lol my diy brine maker can make 250 gallons at a time .
> but i don't have the space for a bigger one. if i did make a bigger one, it would just take up space from my tanks for finished product.. only got space for just over 2000 gallons as it is…
> 
> in future i expect to build a better one, as mine is driven on 2 sump pumps and its slow to work with.
> 
> but then again my trailerspray only holds 260 gallons and I'm still working on getting my other 2 tool carriers fitted with brine sprayers also. they will be a lot smaller, like 85 gallons each.
> those will be on the tool carriers engine lids. bought 2 tanks with cradles and electric pumps(no booms or nothing) and a even smaller 55 gallon hydraulic sprayer with manual amount control from the sprayer and in cab on/off hardwired switch. got ill all at a decent price, auction again…
> 
> plan is to move the hydraulic gear to one of the 85 gal tanks with cradles and remove electric pump and build new boom/booms for it.
> 
> plan for the other 85 gal. tank is to use both electric pumps, either with electric control or manuel depending on prize and build 2 booms for it.
> 
> should i make a separate thread for my projects or just keep it here in this thread ?
> 
> have a nice weekend
> 
> ben


Ben

I believe your topic is ok here. Anything sprayer related ??? If not, Kubota who started the thread will get mad, jump up and down, kick us off and that will be it.  No worries mate, we will just keep on doing what we're doing.

I enjoy sharing thoughts about these topics. Nothing wrong with the smaller, homemade brine maker. Whatever does the job is all that matters. I feel quite lucky to have had opportunity to buy this machine. The cost new for these are prohibitive. This one was owned by a municipality and they sold it to go bigger. I plan to put a shelter over this one and set it up nicely come spring.

Maybe you can post more pictures of the progress you make with your equipment

Jim tymusic


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## panduro

Haha in that case no pictures of current status as that would be carriors with spreaders on Them... 

Just won action 2 days Ago and are waiting for Them to respon to when i Can pickup... Hope they are open over Christmas but probobly not...

Read alot writen of u and kubota about nozzles. It seems stream nozzles are prefered for the type of jobs you two do, but what is the sidewalk guys using, it would Seem to me that flat tips would be better at giving me complete coverage when i leave "no" snow. 

Is it a Wong assumtion that stream nozzles need more product to give coverage unless there is a bit of snow that it Will kind of spread move the brine when dilutingwith?have no heavy traffick iether.

And what about working range pressure in the different tips? I do the opposite than u plow guys, i ajust me speed after my sweeping speed, it would rarely make sence for me to ajust me trraveling speed to fit the sprayer. So i need tips than Can handle as wide a psi spektrum as possible...


----------



## White Gardens

panduro;1905081 said:


> And what about working range pressure in the different tips? I do the opposite than u plow guys, i ajust me speed after my sweeping speed, it would rarely make sence for me to ajust me trraveling speed to fit the sprayer. So i need tips than Can handle as wide a psi spektrum as possible...


It's all a matter of your pump output and really how many gallons per square foot you are trying to put down.

On top of it, you then have to figure your KPH.

I would start here. and personally I would go with a flood nozzle if your sidewalks are almost clean after removing the snow.

http://www.teejet.com/english/home/products/spray-products.aspx

The PDF's you can download for the nozzles can be downloaded in their metric version of their products.

Tee Jet I'm pretty sure is global, but if you have another manufacture there, then go with them. At least this web-site has some good info for a starting point.

...


----------



## MF 5455

panduro;1905081 said:


> Haha in that case no pictures of current status as that would be carriors with spreaders on Them...
> 
> Just won action 2 days Ago and are waiting for Them to respon to when i Can pickup... Hope they are open over Christmas but probobly not...
> 
> Read alot writen of u and kubota about nozzles. It seems stream nozzles are prefered for the type of jobs you two do, but what is the sidewalk guys using, it would Seem to me that flat tips would be better at giving me complete coverage when i leave "no" snow.
> 
> Is it a Wong assumtion that stream nozzles need more product to give coverage unless there is a bit of snow that it Will kind of spread move the brine when dilutingwith?have no heavy traffick iether.
> 
> Ben
> 
> I don't have a lot of sidewalks this year. Most of what I do have I can reach with the side boom on back of truck. What I can't reach this way, I have 100' water hose hooked up to sprayer and we cover them that way. I can't speak for others doing sidewalks, but far as I know, there are no contractors here where I live that spray their walks. They only sand or salt. Canada is way behind you people in this matter. I am really the only one spraying my lots in a modern way with brine. Another contractor has a very small sprayer, but it just trickles out. His price for brine is very costly. He wanted to sell to me for .90 cents liter. ( $3.40 gallon )
> 
> My set up is mostly different than others on this site perhaps. It is run by hydraulics from truck, and my spray boom has equally spaced nozzles, but they are 1/8" diameter outlets for parking lot, and 1/4" for roadways. Little pressure to apply, but to me streamers are an excellent all purpose nozzle to use. ( Kubota helped me understand this theory.)
> Fan nozzles work well for anti icing, but if its windy or nozzles are mounted too high off pavement, there is horrible salt mist everywhere, and I found I didn't have real good coverage.
> Streamers are good for breaking through the ice or hard pack barrier. My hydraulic motor driving the pump has variable speed. If the pavement is bare as in ant icing, (before the storm), I keep the motor speed low. If I'm spraying post storm, and there is hard pack, than I up the motor speed which gives a scenario like a drill bit going through steel.
> Also, my brine when i first started making it wasn't as clean as now. I has some difficulties with the smaller nozzles plugging up.
> All in all, the first spray set up I was using was much smaller, and less attractive to me for doing the larger lots.
> The set up we currently are using allows me to spray a complete parking lot, (4-5 acres) in 10 minutes. And when I say spray, that means the complete lot is wet when I leave. The streamer spray all blends together when traffic drives over it as well.
> I'm guessing that the majority of your sidewalks are 4'-5' wide so a good fan spray or 2-3 streamer nozzles would work excellent.
> Have you ever tried anti icing your walks, and than after the snow see the difference in cleaning them ?
> Do you use rock salt for your brine as in bulk, or with the bags ?
> Couple pics of sprayer....
> 
> Jim tymusic


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## terrapro

Jim how wide can you spray? I like your setup very stout!


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## MF 5455

Cole

The main or center boom will give 8' and with both side booms I can add another 12'. Approx. 6' each boom. I really like the side booms for hitting those sidewalks that run parallel with the lot.

Jim tymusic


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## terrapro

MF 5455;1905221 said:


> Cole
> 
> The main or center boom will give 8' and with both side booms I can add another 12'. Approx. 6' each boom. I really like the side booms for hitting those sidewalks that run parallel with the lot.
> 
> Jim tymusic


Yeah I can imagine!

I am going to have to set up a truck for width, right now only spraying 8' wide. It works but would love to spray my LCC wider just to get it done faster.


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## panduro

good morning guys, and thanks again for responding to my questions.

Mf, thats a very nice setup, love hydraulic gear  id make havoc and get stuck between **** in 2 minutes with that heheeh.

The easy answers, I'm gonna have to buy nozzles and everything else needed for my projects in either uk,germany or sweeden as denmark is very small and has ridiculous prices on that kind of stuff… for example a pacer pump for my brine maker with electrical engine would set me back 1300usd from a danish vendor compared to 510uds in us, we have horrible import taxed for products coming from outside the european union. thats why i ended up with 2 sump pump instead as i wanted to try brine before making big investments that i coudnt sell again without major loses.
brands available would be hypro, tee jet, hardi.

my best bet at this time is that i will have 20-26l/m=5-6,5g/m pump output on my electric setup with 2 pumps. but can off course add a third pump if really needed and my electrical system can the the punishment..

i need around 135cm/4,5 feet wide coverage for my sidewalks, would be nice but not essential to have extra side coverage the that i can turn on when needed for spraying small parking lots, small lots for the residents in the apparent buildings, so mostly around 4m/12f area in width behind the cars.

my mph would be between 3 and 10mph, depending on weather conditions and what I'm spraying for.

guestimates
snow events, is that i will be using from 3mph to about 7mph mostly in the electric sprayer rig.
in a lot of places i have to go down to below 3m for tight spots, turns and so on but short side walk will be around 7mph. in normal slippery events without snow around 5-10mph.

im afraid i do not know yet what amounts i need to put down, read here everything between 40 and 100 gallons pr acre. 
but i would figure that i will be in the low region as i don't need to burn of rest of snow(assuming that a plow often will leave more snow that is packed harder than a broom will, thats how it looks when the guys in the big tractors are plowing the streets in copenhagen).

i know that brine is not the solution for all problems, but when possible id rather put way more brine down than using rock salt as that gives me other problems(which is not about outside issues). 
my clients for the electrical setup is small residential buildings and most of them pay a set prize for the work and variable prize for amount of brine put to the ground, and it has little differens to them or me weather i put down 40 or 100g/acre there. biggest differens for me would be the possible need to fill the tank ekstra times in an event.

i need to be able to change my output from the cab and will need more than 1 booms to cover that gallon pr minute range.
i will do a bit of reading on nozzles  thanks for the link.

The sprayer i tried for 10 events last year used 2 booms with 4 flood nozzles on each, didn't have any issues with clogged tips.

I use bagged salt as i don't have storage for bulk, normally buy 4 pallets/4metric ton delivered between 125usd and 240usd a ton depending on supply and demand…

will return with more questions, very little answers and a lot of rambling later :laughing:

ben


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## White Gardens

Depending on the availability and price, you might want to look into something like this for your different applications.










This will give you a quick change for your different application rates.

Even a single nozzle body with the quick caps might work also.

.. .. .. ..


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## MF 5455

Ben..

I'm thinking that 5-6 gpm output from sprayer would be more than enough for the sidewalk. I'm not sure if your spray unit has an electrical pressure control valve, or maybe just a manual throttle valve. If it has one of these, you can adjust your lpm's, or gpm;s by a differential in pressure.

I think you are on the right track with your spraying. Every situation is a little different. You said that mostly it is close to freezing with your snow events. If the amount you are spraying is working, and sidewalks are getting de iced properly, than your adjustments made are good.

Some pictures of my first sprayer. 3 point hitch for the MF 5455. 200 gallon tank, 3 zone, electric pressure control, sidewalk hose attached. This system was also run by an Ace hydraulic pump, somewhat smaller gpm's than the one I use now. Good system, just not as handy as one for truck, and there wasn't enough volume. I use the controller for my latest system, just don't have the pressure control hooked up. I control that with return line from pump to tank, and or by adjusting oil flow through pump motor.

Jim tymusic


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## MF 5455

White Gardens;1905711 said:


> Depending on the availability and price, you might want to look into something like this for your different applications.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This will give you a quick change for your different application rates.
> 
> Even a single nozzle body with the quick caps might work also.
> 
> .. .. .. ..


I also have an under tailgate spreader for the 550. Tell us what your thoughts are on the way it's spraying. Did you try any other positions for the nozzle to be mounted ?

What nozzle do you find does the better job for you on the pre wetting ?
How wet does the material get, and are you using straight sand, or is it a mixture of salt ?
Are you feeding the nozzle with an electric pump ?

Can you post some pictures of your tank, pump, liquid lines etc.

Jim tymusic


----------



## White Gardens

MF 5455;1905718 said:


> I also have an under tailgate spreader for the 550. Tell us what your thoughts are on the way it's spraying. Did you try any other positions for the nozzle to be mounted ?
> 
> What nozzle do you find does the better job for you on the pre wetting ?
> How wet does the material get, and are you using straight sand, or is it a mixture of salt ?
> Are you feeding the nozzle with an electric pump ?
> 
> Can you post some pictures of your tank, pump, liquid lines etc.
> 
> Jim tymusic


Still in the building phase. Had some good late season landscaping work that came up, and no real snow events.

As soon as I get everything mounted, I'll write up a good report.

.. ..


----------



## panduro

hey guys ,
found a few pictures of the sprayer tanks and gear, they might tell you guys something, but i know squat…

there are functioning 12v pumps on them also that should match the pressure in the picture with output/pressure on them(with the right tips i presume), but know nothing for certain before i can collect them.
The ideer is to take the pumps from both and put it on 1 sprayer instead…

based on what u see can u tell me what i got to play with?

best regards

ben


----------



## panduro

Jim and Mr. white garden,

yes i have tried anti icing a couple of times, buts thats before an icy rain with a bit of following snow. but our weather guys are so hyped that when they see a cloud they yell snow… more than half of the times nothing comes and i can't bill that so doest do it a lot.

that looks like an interesting ideer, and it might have a possible spot in my setup, but its important that i can stay in my cab and change output while sweeping.

mf, it doesn't come with a control box of any kind. it would be a nice setup, especially if it was possible to ad a pressure gauge/readout to it so you could set up sprayer volume after the gauge.

from my extremely limited knowledge it looks to me that i have manuel 
shut up(hehe) valves and pressure gauge/adjustment on it already. if that is the case id off course like to work from there as I'm sure that a electronic setup and control box of the same functions will be pretty expensive.

ok so i did some math.
the amounts i want to put down are:

"light" snow days 
0,8 to 3,7gal pr minut 
hard snowdays/ de-icing
1,4 to 5,5 gallons
spraying width 135cm/4,5 feet.

booms will be under the rear chassis that starts at 15"/38cm, can make it lower but it would be the easiest and safest place for the booms. 


nozzles: did some reading, will do more, just need to have my thinking checked…


i like flood tips as they were on the sprayer i tried last year, but for my use i do think they have issues..
spray pattern and therefore spray width would change a lot when changing pressure.
what if i use less output flood tips and more of them, make sure they all overlap pretty severely. would that give me a uniform spray pattern over a wider range of pressure?
they have the "same" spray pattern as normal flat tips(just with wider width of spray and more corse output).
if this is the case, woudnt flat tips give me the same but with narrower width, and therefore being less prone to changing the coverage width?
i still don't understand how to get coverage with stream tips on my sidewalks, meaning very little snow left, no heavy traffic and 3 small streams of brine, can u enlighten me a bit?

So an important question about tips would be, which type handles the biggest pressure differences?

all this tip talk make me want to get tipsy 

ben


----------



## MF 5455

Ben...or should I say Mr. Tipsy....Lol

I think you have 2 spray units there that came off a miniature pickup truck. They are manual pressure valves, and the tanks are yellow....:laughing::laughing:

I wouldn't get too tipsy over how many liters or gallons per meter or feet you're spraying. If you like the fan spray, make necessary adjustments until you are satisfied. The type and size of nozzles that I use on my equipment won't necessarily be proper for your application.

IF... your walks are pretty much bare from sweeping, than you probably don't need to use much brine. Whether it is streamer or fan, if your nozzles are spaced fairly close, you will have coverage. When we spray with streamer, the liquid will leave tip like 1/4" diameter, but it spreads out and pretty much covers all the areas.

Kubota would probably have some better ideas perhaps for you, but since he is an American, you have to really watch him :waving: LOL.

Can you send a close up picture of the valves and the what's all attached to those 2 tank sprayers ? Looks like the 2" cam lock fitting and adapters are for filling up the tanks ??? I would like to see the pump system also. It appears those tanks have sumps in the bottom ? What were they previously used for ?

Jim tymusic


----------



## panduro

funny, thats what my friends call me 

if it was can/use it would have been pickups… but in denmark there will have been on a similar toolcarrior as mine, and they are built for de-icing originally.

a lot of older brinesprayers from here were built with the idear that you could just put salt and water in and lets the pump agitate it for 30 minutes and the salt was suppose to dissolve… i would assume that the sumps are there to let residue settle…
gave a lot of problems with clogging and so on. 
one of the reasons that brines isn't used a lot these days by private contractors...

**** im colorblind, it thought it was pink 

what is fairly close?

i can't presently as i haven't seen them yet, just saved the pictures from the auction website. but as soon as i can pick them up i will…

mr tipsy


----------



## kc2006

Whats everyone using for their sidewalk hose reels? I saw in a post somewhere someone said they used just an air hose reel with the air hose. Anyone here try that?

I'd like something that self retracts but also stays flexible in the cold.


----------



## MF 5455

kc2006;1906066 said:


> Whats everyone using for their sidewalk hose reels? I saw in a post somewhere someone said they used just an air hose reel with the air hose. Anyone here try that?
> 
> I'd like something that self retracts but also stays flexible in the cold.


I have 2 different ones. The nicest one is a Reelcraft, on a spring loaded reel. It is 100'. Quite heavy. These cost new around $600. I purchased it used.

The other is just a 1/2" rubber hose that we had mounted on the 3 point sprayer. 50'. It has a nice brass spray gun on the end.

I suppose you could use an air reel and hose. Remember that if the ID is less than 1/2", when you get it stretched out there may not be much pressure, unless you can make necessary adjustments for that.

Jim tymusic


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## bytheyardlandsc

*sidewalk sprayer*

I have a 3/8 aire hoes real and a walk behind deicer. I like my walk behind better .


----------



## panduro

Merry christmas guys, wish all the best to you and your dear ones.

back to my little project , making a good brine sprayer for my tool carrier. my tool carrier mainly do sidewalks and residential buildings with little heave traffic, no big lots.

So i got the used gear now, it looks to be almost complete. i will take some pictures when its not raining cats and dogs...

so currently the sprayer contains these parts:
85 gal tank + cradle to secure it on carrier. 
rubber hose with ball valve and coupler for filling/emptying tank.
1 rubber hose that goes though a t-type strainer that supplies the pump with brine.
1 shureflo 2088-443-144 3,5 gallon 12v pump. 
http://legacy.shurflo.com/pages/new...n_industrial/genind_doc_sum/2088-443-144.html

1 hose that goes from pump to:
1 manuel pressure relief valve in it with one 40psi gauge.
2 tubes from that valve, one to tank agitation and one that goes to the 
manuel control valve with 3 valves and an on/off handles.
3 tubes going out from the control valves that i presume is suppose to go to ,2 sprayer bars and 1 hose reel with "pistol".

so all i would need for the sprayer to be set up as original would be a pump on/off switch, 2 sprayer bars and 1 hose reel and pistol.

but that can't do what i need it to do.

what it is missing to fulfill my needs:
I cannot adjust my speed to match the sprayer output, it has to be the other way around...
have ajustable output changeable from cab where i can see how much i am putting down with a pressure gauge for example.
fully adjustable would be wonderful but in say like 3 steps would also be acceptable.
more output than the original pump will supply.(i have 2 of the former mentioned pumps).

Normal snow event 
3 to 12 liters pr min/ 0.8gal to 3.2gal pr minut.
hard snow event/anti icing event
5 to 20 liters pr min/ 1,3gal pr min to 5,3gal pr minut.

I would like to use tee jet xr nozzles as these seem to give widest pressure range where i can get good coverage.

what are the best way to achieve this in a economical fashion, i would love to reuse as many of the current parts as possible.

anybody got some tips or suggestions for me ?

best regards

ben a.k.a mister tipsy


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## White Gardens

panduro;1909681 said:


> what it is missing to fulfill my needs:
> I cannot adjust my speed to match the sprayer output, it has to be the other way around...
> have ajustable output changeable from cab where i can see how much i am putting down with a pressure gauge for example.
> fully adjustable would be wonderful but in say like 3 steps would also be acceptable.
> more output than the original pump will supply.(i have 2 of the former mentioned pumps).
> 
> ben a.k.a mister tipsy


This is going to be your biggest problem without investing into an elaborate control system that is similarly used by large ag sprayers.

That's why I posted the rotary nozzle setup. Yes, you would still have to get out of the cab to change settings, but how often would that really be?

Besides, don't you need to stretch your legs every now and then? 

.....


----------



## panduro

Hey mister white gardens, and thanks for reply 

i know and i do keep it ind mind, for example as a shift between normal and bad snow days, but no i can't stretch my legs every time i hit a corner or another tight spot. we are talking maybe like every 30 seconds where i go from 
9 mph to 2mph for like 5 seconds and then back to 8 miles pr hour. my working speed goes up and down and I'm not willing to keep my speed down to 2 mph to get the right amount...

1 option could be.
2 spray bars, 2 pumpswith on/of switches in cab, that would already give me 3 options. 

I'm asking because i know nothing about different electric valves or the other electronic parts it would take to get it more adjustable. i hope someone who knows more about the electronics can advice me on how to add adjustment to both or just one of the spray bars and at what cost I'm looking at…

besr regards
mr titsy


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## White Gardens

Here's what you need then.

Cost might be prohibitive, but this is is the only option I can come up with.

https://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.88.4530/11002


----------



## panduro

Hey white gardens,
thanks for the link, read the manuel, it seems that can do almost everything i want.
If i was in your part of the world id buy it even if its still more than i hoped to spend.
I couldn't find dealers online with a price on the 834p in europe, but did find the 844e, i know its a different controller all together but the brand is the same and the price differens is 150dollar. 
so i will assume that the pricing for the 834p in uk to be "made" in similar way. 844e has the price of 1.115dollars in usa, in a tee jet uk dealers webshop it is 1.904 british pound sterling which converts to 2.962usd. .

I have to investigate the market for european made controllers as i didn't know there actually was controllers that controls the 12v pump speed instead of using valves. would make any 12v system simpler.

More ideers is also very much welcomed, it doesn't have to automatically change output with my speed, i can hit a few buttons if needed .

best regards

ben


----------



## panduro

Succes !!!!!!!!! 
found a cheaper 12v pump speed controller  its nothing fancy, its just adjustable pump speed from cab.

http://www.spraytech.uk.com/12-volt-motor-controller-542-p.asp
know nothing about it, no specs or anything, but have ordered it so i will see if it does the trick or blows up on first use…

more to come 

ben


----------



## White Gardens

Honestly, I think you need to spend the money on an automatic controller.

If you can find a euro built system, you would be better off also. 

Yes, the controller you posted will give you some control, but I feel you won't really know what's going, especially if your speed is going to change as much as you say it's going to. 

That and even if you have a higher up front cost for such a system, you'll probably recoup the cost over the course of a snow season by utilizing your brine to the maximum potential, thus saving money and time on your brine solution.



......


----------



## panduro

If i can find one in the Pricerange of the Tejeet 834p us Price i Will go for it, but if that happens then i have A simple in Cab Pump controller for my third rig also, that one Will not benifit as much from a higher degree of automation as nr2 would.
thAnks whitE. 

Ben


----------



## absolutely

A couple pics from our build, almost done.


----------



## MF 5455

Absolutely....Without doubt, this is looking good.

Can you give us some details ????

Powered by ?, how many gallon tank ?, What you're using for spray nozzles...you know, fill in the gaps, buddy. 

Maybe a few more pictures ? :laughing:

Jim tymusic


----------



## absolutely

MF 5455;1911330 said:


> Absolutely....Without doubt, this is looking good.
> 
> Can you give us some details ????
> 
> Powered by ?, how many gallon tank ?, What you're using for spray nozzles...you know, fill in the gaps, buddy.
> 
> Maybe a few more pictures ? :laughing:
> 
> Jim tymusic


It is a 1000 gallon tank, 2inch pump, pencil tip nozzles, three zones, back up camera. Still need lights on back and a c channel bumper to protect nozzles. Try and get pictures Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## underESTIMATED

absolutely;1912204 said:


> It is a 1000 gallon tank, 2inch pump, pencil tip nozzles, three zones, back up camera. Still need lights on back and a c channel bumper to protect nozzles. Try and get pictures Monday or Tuesday.


100% - absolutely badass!


----------



## absolutely

*Calabrating*

Dialing her in. Maybe cleaning the parking lot as well


----------



## rubidriver

What is your flow rate on that rig? When I grow up I wanna look like that!


----------



## absolutely

rubidriver;1913561 said:


> What is your flow rate on that rig? When I grow up I wanna look like that!


At 40psi we are at 37 gallons per minute, 2 gpm each tip. In other words 8mph to cover an acre = 4 minutes minus the stopping and such. I have my fingers crossed it is going to work.


----------



## underESTIMATED

absolutely;1913548 said:


> Dialing her in. Maybe cleaning the parking lot as well


I love how you placed the nozzles. Awesome awesome set up!


----------



## Frosty123

I found a supplier for the material I am planning on using in my sprayer. I Wanted to know if the concentrations look good or if it needs to be diluted any.
Water 70-80%, calcium chloride 5-15%, sodium chloride 7-12%, strontium chloride 1-3%, magnesium chloride 1-2%, potassium chloride 0.5-1%, miscellaneous chloride salts ~1%


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

absalutly. your outfit looks killer. but even with a 1000 gallon tank at 36 gallons per minute that's only 27 minutes of spray time. that outfit should cover 20 acers at 50 gallons per. and that's heavy. are you woired that's its to many gallons per minute just asking. unless its a street truck where you can haul ass. fill me in please.


----------



## absolutely

bytheyardlandsc;1916889 said:


> absalutly. your outfit looks killer. but even with a 1000 gallon tank at 36 gallons per minute that's only 27 minutes of spray time. that outfit should cover 20 acers at 50 gallons per. and that's heavy. are you woired that's its to many gallons per minute just asking. unless its a street truck where you can haul ass. fill me in please.


I would like to see what kind of results 50 gal an acre accomplishes. Any research I have shows 120-150 per acre. I can dial it to 30 psi to get the 120 gall per acre.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

I have great results at 15 gallons per minute. witch put me about 50 per acre . of course truck speed makes a difference. don't get me wrong, your outfit is awesome and I appreciate you showing it. my tank is 935 gallons and I put it down real heavy and ran short. if it works for you that's awesome . can you tell me what the part # is for those tips and if they come in smaller gpm sizes. once again nice job on the build.


----------



## snowish10

Anyone around chicago know where I could buy liquid dieicer. Looking for a grass and concrete friendly liquid spray. I only need to buy a small amount 15 gallons or so at a time.


----------



## Doug8949

subscribing as i will have alot of question coming up in the further.


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## 86 CJ

We made up our first 500 gallons of Brine last week and I was able to test it out for the first time last night to pre treat, then today to ice melt, then snow started really coming down and blade went on rest of the day here in MD. I will test it out as an ice melter in the am..Thanks to everyone for there help...


----------



## terrapro

absolutely;1913548 said:


> Dialing her in. Maybe cleaning the parking lot as well


Thats a badass spray boom!...Seriously!


----------



## MahonLawnCare

bytheyardlandsc;1917249 said:


> I have great results at 15 gallons per minute. witch put me about 50 per acre . of course truck speed makes a difference. don't get me wrong, your outfit is awesome and I appreciate you showing it. my tank is 935 gallons and I put it down real heavy and ran short. if it works for you that's awesome . can you tell me what the part # is for those tips and if they come in smaller gpm sizes. once again nice job on the build.


What are you running with those results? I run one liquid truck and its mineral brine and I'm probably 70 acre


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

I going thru 900 gallons on average run two trucks pickup has a 275 tote on it. My dump carry 700. I'm not really sure exactly how many acers. Can You cover 70 acers with one truck and one load ?


----------



## NuverPlawd

Well. Since no one else seems to want to say it>>

This week has been FUN! (sort of). We finally got an actual snowfall here in Pittsburgh! Only catch is on monday actually temps were around 12F then went to hum, maybe 15F. Then, at night, it dropped to hum around 7F then now its 6F.. With Windchill I can't calculate it, life is bombastic. lol. Plastic parts are snapping like crackers. 

How it went for me in the world of LIQUIDS? lol.

Well, it started like this @ 12F-15F:

(Straight brine)-4am I'm like aw, its only .5" SPHHHHHHHHHH SPHHHHHH SPHHHH SPHH SPHHHHHHHHHHHHH

30 mins go by and I look back at my first track like hmm(it starts blizzarding as well). interesting. 45 mins and I'm like hmmmmmmmmmmm. aw ****.

hmmmm. **** it grab the plow. Mad dash to the plow. 

I'm like aw aw aw, my new plow has ******* shoes on it still. damn it. try it. **** it one fell off. **** **** **** ****. **** it. rip the other one off. BLIZZARD BLIZZARD BLIZZARD and the .5" 1.5 later is now 1.5" I'm like aw.

****.

I start spreading salt out the hopper like c'mon. DAMMN IT! A little better response I'm like whut the? 

DAMN IT ALL! So I start plowing and spraying and spreading LIKE GET IT *****!!

well. now that I got that off of my chest.

All in all, I figured it'd happen eventually. I found my brine's limitations. So, I run off and get flake, it helped.

Today the temps were in the singles. all. *******. day.

So. I RAN OFF AND GOT LIQUID CALCIUM! 

How did your day go?

p.s. It's 4F out there right now. ??


----------



## panduro

*Do i need to do something to prevent back flow if i...?*

Hey guys,
first subject is related to the sprayer rig in post 1648 page 83.
Im not satisfied with the amount the rig puts down and the sprayer booms can handle a bigger amount then they are currently putting down and it will actually improve my spraypattern...
as i don't use my Sideprayer in this rig id like to just remove the side nozzles and put the 2 hoses that goes to them to the normal booms with a Y piece. that way id double the amount…

tha way id have the in cab option of putting down 21,4 - 42,7 and 85,5 gallons pr acre.

but if i just connect 1 of the hoses to each normal sprayboom, will that make problems for me?

i mean, what about backflow? will the supply hoses from normal boom and the former side nozzles work against each other?

best regards

ben


----------



## White Gardens

panduro;1922114 said:


> Hey guys,
> first subject is related to the sprayer rig in post 1648 page 83.
> Im not satisfied with the amount the rig puts down and the sprayer booms can handle a bigger amount then they are currently putting down and it will actually improve my spraypattern...
> as i don't use my Sideprayer in this rig id like to just remove the side nozzles and put the 2 hoses that goes to them to the normal booms with a Y piece. that way id double the amount…
> 
> tha way id have the in cab option of putting down 21,4 - 42,7 and 85,5 gallons pr acre.
> 
> but if i just connect 1 of the hoses to each normal sprayboom, will that make problems for me?
> 
> i mean, what about backflow? will the supply hoses from normal boom and the former side nozzles work against each other?
> 
> best regards
> 
> ben


Do you have nozzles and what are their output?

......


----------



## turboguy

panduro;1922114 said:


> Hey guys,
> first subject is related to the sprayer rig in post 1648 page 83.
> Im not satisfied with the amount the rig puts down and the sprayer booms can handle a bigger amount then they are currently putting down and it will actually improve my spraypattern...
> as i don't use my Sideprayer in this rig id like to just remove the side nozzles and put the 2 hoses that goes to them to the normal booms with a Y piece. that way id double the amount…
> 
> tha way id have the in cab option of putting down 21,4 - 42,7 and 85,5 gallons pr acre.
> 
> but if i just connect 1 of the hoses to each normal sprayboom, will that make problems for me?
> 
> i mean, what about backflow? will the supply hoses from normal boom and the former side nozzles work against each other?
> 
> best regards
> 
> ben


What if you made a second boom and mounted it right behind the first boom and plumbed the hoses going to the side into the second boom. Then when you want a heavier application rate you could run both booms and when you don't you could just run the one boom.

I think another option should be just changing to larger nozzles on your boom but without knowing what you have for a pump and hoses that is just a guess. Nice looking unit however.


----------



## White Gardens

To me it looks like there is no nozzles, just a stainless pipe with holes.

If that's the case, maybe just drilling the existing holes bigger will solve the problem. I would just go a little at a time so you don't over size the holes.

Otherwise I would try to set up nozzles just for the fact you can interchange them if need be.


.....


----------



## panduro

Hey guys, hope you have more snow than i have 

thanks for al the answers.

pls remember that I'm pretty new to this sprayer subject and prob don't see the complete picture when i use erhmm common sense to answer questions .

the sprayer has from factory 2 sprayer booms mounted just behind each other.
both are mounted with 3 flodnozzles but have different sizes.
spare part manuel says
1 boom with 3 pieces 1/8" GK 2,5 kgw 1200 t1
1 boom with 3 pieces 1/8" Gk 7,5 kgw 1590 t1

the side nozzles 2 different nozzles
1 piece 1/4 G10 kqh 1390 t1
1 piece 3/8" G20 kqh 1780 t1.

The pump is actually a dual pump where the nr 2 pump is only used for the side nozzles. the side nozzles have identical output as the "normal" boom. which mean that i can choose between 20ml/m2 and 40ml/m2. sprayer spare part manuel just calls pump AR19 35,3ccm3.

i haven't been able to find out anything about the nozzles and i do not know what the name means… 

Last year i had a similar sprayer, same brand,same booms, same nozzles, where i because of a breakdown of the hydraulic system had to get it working fast which resulted in putting in a 12v 20L shuffle pro extreme blaster downwash pump and an output ball valve. very rough and none precise adjustment. but it did put out the "required" amount of brine at my best fixed work speed… i actually don't know how much it put down as some b…… stole it. improvised the 12v pump in to get it "working", just after i went out for 16 hours of snow, got home went to bed, woke up and sprayer gone…

So i think the nozzles will do the extra flow if i divide it between the 2 original booms.

Yes i know an option could be to make a third boom, but id rather stay with the original 2 if possible...


----------



## White Gardens

panduro;1922570 said:


> 1 boom with 3 pieces 1/8" GK 2,5 kgw 1200 t1
> 1 boom with 3 pieces 1/8" Gk 7,5 kgw 1590 t1
> 
> the side nozzles 2 different nozzles
> 1 piece 1/4 G10 kqh 1390 t1
> 1 piece 3/8" G20 kqh 1780 t1.


Not sure what the numbers you posted really mean.

Ultimately, if you can remove those nozzles an put different ones in, you might solve your problem.

For example.....

If you look at this fertilizer nozzle, it will show you the output range, for a range of pressures. This might help you find a high and low range that best suit your needs, especially if you are using a controller that is changing the speed of the pump, thus the pressure will change, and so will your output.

View attachment Fertnozzles2.pdf


I would try to figure out the nozzles you have first so you really know your output right now. Then you can make a decision on the best nozzle to try first based on your current application rate.

I would rather see you try this first before you get into too much tinkering with your rig. Keep it simple, use what you got.

....


----------



## White Gardens

absolutely;1913548 said:


> Dialing her in. Maybe cleaning the parking lot as well


Did you make the boom?

If so, that is just brilliant in how you mounted the side booms at an angle like that, keeping everything in nice and tight.

.......


----------



## turboguy

That is a cool sprayer but different than anything I usually see over here. As far as the numbers my guess would be something like

1 piece 3/8" G20 kqh 1780 t1.

That would be a 3/8" nozzle body with an application rate of 20 Kilograms per hour and maybe an 80 degree spray or maybe not. Usually the numbers give the angle of the spray as part of the code. It is hard to see the nozzles in the photos you posted. Depending on the output of the pump changing out the nozzles would be the easiest solution to the problem. You might contact the manufacturer and ask what the liters per hour or minute output of the pump is and then if you can find the liters per hour (or minute) of the nozzles times the number of nozzles you can determine if you can handle larger nozzles.


----------



## absolutely

terrapro;1920611 said:


> Thats a badass spray boom!...Seriously!


Thank You! Works Awesome.


----------



## absolutely

White Gardens;1922738 said:


> Did you make the boom?
> 
> If so, that is just brilliant in how you mounted the side booms at an angle like that, keeping everything in nice and tight.
> 
> .......


Yes I designed it. didnt want it wider than the truck. I also didnt want spray heads for the sides, we will be using it alot for deicing so we need the pencil tips. I'm lucky to have a good welder on staff!


----------



## White Gardens

absolutely;1922829 said:


> Yes I designed it. didnt want it wider than the truck. I also didnt want spray heads for the sides, we will be using it alot for deicing so we need the pencil tips. I'm lucky to have a good welder on staff!


Once we get a second big truck, I'd like to dedicate it to a liquid system.

If you really think about it, you could market that type of boom and probably make some serious money from it.

......


----------



## 86 CJ

For those of you that are using Liquid Brine as an ice melter....

Are you putting it down right after you plow during a storm?

Are you waiting until the storms stops and you are done plowing, then spraying?

Are you having to come back in the early AM before the sun comes out and customers get to work and re-treating?

I used my setup new this week, and is working, but need to just fine tune some things and get my timing and amount of spray down better. I was still spreading some Mag on sidewalks and some places were Ice was building back up, but temps here in MD were at 10 degrees and wind was kicking for 2 days straight. We usually get the 35-40 degree warm up after storms here..


----------



## 86 CJ

I am starting to have people ask me if I sell or can make Liquid that is sidewalk safe for pre-treating and or De-icing. I have not tinkered with trying to make liquid Mag yet..

What are some of you guys using that is more safe for newer concrete that still works well for melting or pre-treating?


----------



## Lynden-Jeff

Calcium Chrloride is better then Mag IMO


----------



## 86 CJ

NuverPlawd;1875075 said:


> I used our brine for the first time yesterday  No calcium mixed yet, don't need it.
> 
> Have a lot more learning to do. It was 15f 0f with windchill and very very windy. Most guys were over applying their salt and it wasn't working well. After 30 mins I had shiny bare asphalt.


Did you pre-treat, then plow, then spray again? Did you plow, then spray righ away?


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Im using my liquid same as salt. plow then apply. 1/2 inch or less liquid only. unless its a wet heavy snow then we clear it first. I only pretreat if calling for ice or heavy snow accumulation. all accounts are per push. no monthly contracts. hope this helps.


----------



## 86 CJ

bytheyardlandsc;1929109 said:


> Im using my liquid same as salt. plow then apply. 1/2 inch or less liquid only. unless its a wet heavy snow then we clear it first. I only pretreat if calling for ice or heavy snow accumulation. all accounts are per push. no monthly contracts. hope this helps.


Thanks for the info, appreciate it


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Lynden-Jeff;1926349 said:


> Calcium Chrloride is better then Mag IMO


You are probably right. I only use Mag because it is readily available in liquid form here in Montana. $3.25/gallon to buy LCC. I can make it, and have made it for about $1.80ish per gallon. It worked well and I was happy with the results. But not for my cost.


----------



## MahonLawnCare

MahonLawnCare;1920773 said:


> What are you running with those results? I run one liquid truck and its mineral brine and I'm probably 70 acre


i'm sorry i meant 70 gallons/acre. when colder it works much better and moisture content is a big part but 70 acre is about what i'm at for good results. a lot of places get both we will spray and if there is a salt truck nearby and it's still snowing ill hit it with salt too and that works pretty well. it's def. cut salt bill for sure but i sure do miss my salter on my truck lol i would love to run LCC but I can't find any locally. I found some in MI but the trucking is killer.


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## Doug8949

*please help if you can.*



Kubota 8540;1347187 said:


> Seems that threads talking about liquids get hijacked and end up sprayer related. Have questions, problems, whats working well, trying something new, and/or post your pics of your sprayer here.


I am building my brine maker and my sprayer rig for my truck. My question is has anyone put together a list of what is needed for the brine maker and what is needed for the truck. I watched your you tube video and liked what i saw i am looking at building same unit but with electric 220 pump i like your valve setup.

For the truck i want to go with a gas motor for the pump and a 3 lane boom sprayer were i can shut off the side booms if needed.

please help and thank you in advance.


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## SullivanSeptic

Subscribing


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## 86 CJ

Doug8949;1929846 said:


> I am building my brine maker and my sprayer rig for my truck. My question is has anyone put together a list of what is needed for the brine maker and what is needed for the truck. I watched your you tube video and liked what i saw i am looking at building same unit but with electric 220 pump i like your valve setup.
> 
> For the truck i want to go with a gas motor for the pump and a 3 lane boom sprayer were i can shut off the side booms if needed.
> 
> please help and thank you in advance.


Scroll back through the first 86 pages of this post and search for BRINE MAKER in the search bar on other posts. You will find 90% of what you are looking for. The other 10% is all on you and is the fun part


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## daveslawns

Kubota 8540;1349328 said:


> Built a 60" wide spray bar today for one of those little Japanese trucks. You know the kind, they are like 5 feet wide by 10 feet long and 5 foot high type trucks. I think it would fit in the bed of a full size truck bed? 60" bar, 4 SJ3 black tips and it will spray a total of 7 feet wide.
> 
> http://files.abovetopsecret.com/uploads/ats50449_japanese_kei_truck01_01.jpg


do you have any pictures of the little truck finished? I have the exact same truck.
were they using it for sidewalks? would it be worth the money to equip on a little truck

thanks


----------



## Brian Young

We've been running liquid for quite a few years now. Our systems have been from a very simple gravity fed to now our electric system. I'm at my wits end with different spreader bars, our current (well until one guy backed up too far and snapped it) was a 8ft 1-1/2" bar with 12 pencil tips spaced out even and sits about 18" or so off the ground. Our Pump is a 12v Soterra 15gpm pump and with this combo we got pretty good coverage at slower speeds 5-7mph. We threw the back up bar on which is a 6-7ft 1-1/2" bar with 8 pencil tips. I never thought this bar did well so I drilled additional 3/16 holes in between the tips and seems as though we've lost a lot of pressure. I just don't see how drilling an additional 4 3/16 holes will make it seem to loose a lot of pressure. Any help Jim?


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## SullivanSeptic

More holes = less pressure. Very simple concept. Just like the more couplings, bends, distance will cause a drop in pressure and volume


----------



## Brian Young

SullivanSeptic;1930215 said:


> More holes = less pressure. Very simple concept. Just like the more couplings, bends, distance will cause a drop in pressure and volume


Right! Thats what I was thinking but for whatever reason this bar seems to put out less than the one with 12 tips. I was thinking of trying a smaller diameter bar, maybe that will give me a bit more pressure. Our area is more de-icing so I need it to penetrate the usual 1/2" hard pack.


----------



## SullivanSeptic

3/16 holes are pretty good size. I have a chart somewhere that shows the loloss of head pressure for a bunch of different size holes. I have septic system with pressure dosed laterals and they have a 1-1/2" pipe with holes drilled in it. It's amazing how quick you loose pressure if the holes aren't drilled perfectly straight with a sharp bit


----------



## Brian Young

SullivanSeptic;1930223 said:


> 3/16 holes are pretty good size. I have a chart somewhere that shows the loloss of head pressure for a bunch of different size holes. I have septic system with pressure dosed laterals and they have a 1-1/2" pipe with holes drilled in it. It's amazing how quick you loose pressure if the holes aren't drilled perfectly straight with a sharp bit


Its funny you say "holes drilled perfectly straight", we were in a hurry and the holes with the fittings are good but the holes I drilled are close but some are spraying behind the pencil tip pattern and 1 or 2 are spraying just in front of them. Honestly when we ran our gravity system we drilled 3/16 holes in a 2" bar every 4" and it came out so much better and Im thinking of just making a new bar and just drilling holes BUT getting them perfect.


----------



## 86 CJ

I am running an 8' 1" PVC boom with 3/16 holes every 3" across, using a 5.5 Briggs pump on idle and the 1" pressure relief valve wide open and seem to have ton of pressure at 5-7mph. I was looking at building a 9-10' bar and spacing out the SJ3 black tips(maybe 6) that Kubota uses. You guys have me second guessing building that now, over just making a longer Boom with more 3/16 holes in it..


----------



## Brian Young

86 CJ;1930318 said:


> I am running an 8' 1" PVC boom with 3/16 holes every 3" across, using a 5.5 Briggs pump on idle and the 1" pressure relief valve wide open and seem to have ton of pressure at 5-7mph. I was looking at building a 9-10' bar and spacing out the SJ3 black tips(maybe 6) that Kubota uses. You guys have me second guessing building that now, over just making a longer Boom with more 3/16 holes in it..


If I were running a engine I would run those black tips but with ours the max is 15 gpm and not sure what the pressure is but nowhere near a gas powered engine so I don't know how it would spread it. Honestly, just drilling holes versus having actual pencil tip fittings is probably gaining us nothing except more expense but we have them so I guess use them,lol. We sill run rock salt primarily but use the liquid on 3 accounts and an occasional pre treat. I'm actually going to tee off at the pump and run 2 hoses to either middle of the new bar and see if that gets me more even pressure (the ends still come out but a slight wind you can see the stream blowing).


----------



## SullivanSeptic

If you aren't changing your pump size (pressure and volume) and you are adding outlets, you are going to loose pressure. No matter what the situation or application, a pump will only do so much. If it's at full capacity, then either restrict the output to create more pressure or up size the pump


----------



## SullivanSeptic

I learned my lesson with drilling holes in pvc. I drilled holes in 700 feet of pvc and installed it into the ground. Well my guys hand drilled the holes every 6ft, in the field and had crap bits. I did all my calculations and figured I had the right size pump. Well I was wrong. I had to upgrademy 30gpm pump to a 75gpm pump to compencompensate for the holes we drilled. So use tips or get the holes dead on. It makes a difference


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## Kubota 8540

Brian Young;1930211 said:


> We've been running liquid for quite a few years now. Our systems have been from a very simple gravity fed to now our electric system. I'm at my wits end with different spreader bars, our current (well until one guy backed up too far and snapped it) was a 8ft 1-1/2" bar with 12 pencil tips spaced out even and sits about 18" or so off the ground. Our Pump is a 12v Soterra 15gpm pump and with this combo we got pretty good coverage at slower speeds 5-7mph. We threw the back up bar on which is a 6-7ft 1-1/2" bar with 8 pencil tips. I never thought this bar did well so I drilled additional 3/16 holes in between the tips and seems as though we've lost a lot of pressure. I just don't see how drilling an additional 4 3/16 holes will make it seem to loose a lot of pressure. Any help Jim?


Have been making brine so I wasnt paying attention, so I had to do a bunch of reading. Sullivan is right, More holes =Less pressure. You could drill 100 more holes and it wouldnt make much difference. Besides, 15 psi is REALLY low to start with,. But I have been re-thinking my own systems and have wanted to increase the pressure to be able to better cut thru some hard pack. Really the only way to do that is a higher pressure and possibly a higher volume pump. Higher volume meaning, enough to exceed the requirement of the spray tips. Simply drilled holes are not as good as tips. Well at least none that I ever drilled. Every hole I have drilled the stream diffuses, scatters, or whatever word, but the tips have a very precise stream. Which cut thru hard pack better.


----------



## Kubota 8540

daveslawns;1930210 said:


> do you have any pictures of the little truck finished? I have the exact same truck.
> were they using it for sidewalks? would it be worth the money to equip on a little truck
> 
> thanks


Unlikely to have pics but I will look. I'm terrible at keeping up with the proof or documentation part of all I do. But yes they used it for sidewalks. Cool looking little truck, I wanted to put it in my pocket and bring it home.


----------



## Kubota 8540

86 CJ;1930063 said:


> Scroll back through the first 86 pages of this post and search for BRINE MAKER in the search bar on other posts. You will find 90% of what you are looking for. The other 10% is all on you and is the fun part


You would think that (I) would have a written parts list. I am asked that so often. But NO, I have never really taken the time to sit down and write one out. Mainly because everyone wants something just a little bit different than the next person. I take a wad of cash and go get a bunch of these and some of those. Not the greatest way, as the many boxes of parts left on my shelves worth many hundreds of dollars would attest.


----------



## SullivanSeptic

If you do want to drill holes, put the pipe in a vise and use a drill press. That will keep the bit and the pipe dead straight. Also let the bit do the work. Don't force it. And lastly, use a new bit. The sharper the better


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Kubota 8540;1930472 said:


> Have been making brine so I wasnt paying attention, so I had to do a bunch of reading. Sullivan is right, More holes =Less pressure. You could drill 100 more holes and it wouldnt make much difference. Besides, 15 psi is REALLY low to start with,. But I have been re-thinking my own systems and have wanted to increase the pressure to be able to better cut thru some hard pack. Really the only way to do that is a higher pressure and possibly a higher volume pump. Higher volume meaning, enough to exceed the requirement of the spray tips. Simply drilled holes are not as good as tips. Well at least none that I ever drilled. Every hole I have drilled the stream diffuses, scatters, or whatever word, but the tips have a very precise stream. Which cut thru hard pack better.


That is true. My boom is about 18" off the ground and my streams aren't as nice at the ground as they are at the drilled pvc boom. My nozzles are ordered already so I am going to proceed with the SJ3 nozzles.


----------



## Kubota 8540

86 CJ;1923571 said:


> For those of you that are using Liquid Brine as an ice melter....
> 
> Are you putting it down right after you plow during a storm?
> 
> Are you waiting until the storms stops and you are done plowing, then spraying?
> 
> Are you having to come back in the early AM before the sun comes out and customers get to work and re-treating?
> 
> I used my setup new this week, and is working, but need to just fine tune some things and get my timing and amount of spray down better. I was still spreading some Mag on sidewalks and some places were Ice was building back up, but temps here in MD were at 10 degrees and wind was kicking for 2 days straight. We usually get the 35-40 degree warm up after storms here..


Personally I do little anti-icing. I plow as much as possible then spray to deice. Unless the I think the storm will happen in such a way that the snow will bond to the pavement or I am confident that the storm is just going to be a dusting that will be taken care of by my spraying before it hits. But snows in different parts of the country happen different and are different in moisture content. For the past couple of years, 95% of our snows have been low moisture content snows. (FLUFFY)

Just like rock salt, yes sometimes I have to go back and re-spray. With liquid I do not spray during a storm.


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## Kubota 8540

Doug8949;1929846 said:


> I am building my brine maker and my sprayer rig for my truck. My question is has anyone put together a list of what is needed for the brine maker and what is needed for the truck. I watched your you tube video and liked what i saw i am looking at building same unit but with electric 220 pump i like your valve setup.
> 
> For the truck i want to go with a gas motor for the pump and a 3 lane boom sprayer were i can shut off the side booms if needed.
> 
> please help and thank you in advance.


I have an electric pump from AMT which I just love. I will buy more everytime I add to my system. I just built a Brinemaker for a city that I used 2 of these... http://catalog.springerpumps.com/it...ess-steel-straight-centrifugal-pumps/5495-98?

I have 1 of these to run my fill station / Brinemaker combo. http://catalog.springerpumps.com/it...ver=10&categid=100&prodid=1603&origin=keyword


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## Brian Young

Jim and SS, If I down sized the hose from the pump and the spreader bar (which are both 1 1/2" diameter) down to 1" I should gain a little bit more pressure at the tips correct. Like you Jim, we do way more de-icing than anti-icing and I need as much pressure as possible. The reason I'm trying to tee off the pump and run 2 lines is right now theres a ton of pressure in the middle right at the tee to about 2ft out then it gets a bit weaker and the last couple tips on each side are about 30-40% weaker. I realize this pump isn't a gas powered engine but the place I bought it from swears this set up is a great system and they're still wondering why I'm having so many issues with pressure with it. I've checked the pump out put and voltage and all is good. I really think if I down sized the hose and bar, make sure my tips are all aligned I'll be happier. I'd convert this system to gas powered but the expense isn't really worth it for me right now. Jim, I'll be contacting you for a brine maker here soon.


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## SullivanSeptic

What size is the bar? The smaller diameter pipe, the more pressure. But then you start messing with volume. You need to balance out volume and pressure.

I am out of town until tomorrow, but I will look for my chart I have on volume and pressure loss for certain size holes. If I can find it, then it's simple math in regards the the pump output and the amount and size of orifices


----------



## Brian Young

SullivanSeptic;1930541 said:


> What size is the bar? The smaller diameter pipe, the more pressure. But then you start messing with volume. You need to balance out volume and pressure.
> 
> I am out of town until tomorrow, but I will look for my chart I have on volume and pressure loss for certain size holes. If I can find it, then it's simple math in regards the the pump output and the amount and size of orifices


I'd be going from a 1 1/2" hose and bar to a 1" and have 12 pencil tips on an 8ft bar. I'd have to see if these nozzles will still fit, they use a 59/64" drill bit to drill out the holes and the proper tap for that hole but it's almost an inch itself. I can always get different type nozzles and fitting like the kind that clamp around the bar versus drilling into the bar. I'll get some pics up to show what Im talking about lol.


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## SullivanSeptic

Ok, looks like I am gonna be building a sprayer unit now. I want to go gas motor. So what gas motor and pump?


----------



## Brian Young

SullivanSeptic;1930571 said:


> Ok, looks like I am gonna be building a sprayer unit now. I want to go gas motor. So what gas motor and pump?


Kabota (Jim) used Briggs I guess but we've never had any luck with them. Go to Dultmiere (I think thats how its spelled) they have everything you would need to build a unit. I want a Honda 5.5hp with Banjo pump for my build, they run about 550.00 for engine and pump. That combo in particular also has one that has a seal or something that if by chance you run the tank dry it won't burn up the pump, I think it's an additional 150.00


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Kubota 8540;1930482 said:


> Personally I do little anti-icing. I plow as much as possible then spray to deice. Unless the I think the storm will happen in such a way that the snow will bond to the pavement or I am confident that the storm is just going to be a dusting that will be taken care of by my spraying before it hits. But snows in different parts of the country happen different and are different in moisture content. For the past couple of years, 95% of our snows have been low moisture content snows. (FLUFFY)
> 
> Just like rock salt, yes sometimes I have to go back and re-spray. With liquid I do not spray during a storm.


I have a federal contract that requires bare pavement, so I anti-ice those parking lots. The contract states that I can only plow between 3-6am, so I go in and anti-ice if the weather requires it beforehand, then plow and de-ice between 3-6am. I have one other contract, a national retail chain, that is supposed to be a 2 inch minimum but as soon as it starts snowing and people drive on it the lot turns to hard pack and ice. They requested we take care of it, even though 2" had not hit the ground. So now I anti-ice and de-ice that parking lot every time and they love it that way. They're happy with bare pavement, and it makes us more money. We have a lot of snow events that start out as rain, then it snows, then it freezes, so we will anti-ice during that type of weather. When I say rain, we don't get midwest rain, or Pacific Northwest rain, not enough to run anything off the lots but enough to make ice bond to the asphalt. Everyone else gets de-icer only.


----------



## Kubota 8540

SullivanSeptic;1930571 said:


> Ok, looks like I am gonna be building a sprayer unit now. I want to go gas motor. So what gas motor and pump?


I have used a lot of different engine/pump combos. If I were to actually build one for MYSELF, I would use a Banjo Pump separated from the engine type with an electric start either Briggs or Honda engine. Such as PRSE3SLE6CP from Dultmeier... http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.851.863.1817.4095/1111 OR http://www.brandnewengines.com/200PH-5E.aspx


----------



## Kubota 8540

There are a lot of nice cast iron pumps that will work well for increasing pressure and volume when necessary if you dont mind the extra maintenance. Rinsing, flushing and neutralizing after every use. I'm reasonable about maintenance but not that good.

http://www.brandnewengines.com/200PIH-5.aspx

http://www.dultmeier.com/catalog/0.851.863.1817.5664

Also depends on how much volume you need and how much your willing to spend.

I would say if your spraying parking lots you really dont need much more that 40-60 gpm and 40-60 psi.


----------



## Kubota 8540

My next attempt at satisfying my engine/pump problems will be a 10.5 hp vertical shaft engine direct coupled via lovejoy connection and a Hypro Silvercast Roller pump with gas V box throttle control in cab.

Unless I had central hydraulics, then I would use a hydraulic driven/ operated pump


----------



## NorthernSvc's

I have these pumps http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/064831-pacer-550-ohv-transfer-pump.html#.VLqy-ZK9KSM
Have had pretty good luck with them and they get used a lot.... Been averaging about 2 seasons with them and then the components get all rusted up on the motor- I just throw them away and buy a new one....


----------



## SullivanSeptic

Lol. I'm the same with my vbox salter engines. 2 years and toss them. It's easier the way. Too much gets rusted and worn out. But my goal is to put a sprayer unit in my pickup only. I will take care of it better then my guys do


----------



## Kubota 8540

NorthernSvc's;1930674 said:


> I have these pumps http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/064831-pacer-550-ohv-transfer-pump.html#.VLqy-ZK9KSM
> Have had pretty good luck with them and they get used a lot.... Been averaging about 2 seasons with them and then the components get all rusted up on the motor- I just throw them away and buy a new one....


I use a lot of those on sprayers. If you slightly disassemble the fuel tank and spray the linkages that are then exposed with a liberal coat of Fluid Film, it delays the rusting for a lot longer. I actually spray the entire exterior of the engine and pump with Fluid Film and it helps a lot.


----------



## absolutely

*Parts list for 3 zone sprayer*

Here is my invoices from HJV Equipment. This covered most except tank, hoses that are needed and maybe a couple of fittings. Had about $2100 with a cheaper pump($315).


----------



## Kubota 8540

valleyviewlawns;1930656 said:


> I have a federal contract that requires bare pavement, so I anti-ice those parking lots. The contract states that I can only plow between 3-6am, so I go in and anti-ice if the weather requires it beforehand, then plow and de-ice between 3-6am. I have one other contract, a national retail chain, that is supposed to be a 2 inch minimum but as soon as it starts snowing and people drive on it the lot turns to hard pack and ice. They requested we take care of it, even though 2" had not hit the ground. So now I anti-ice and de-ice that parking lot every time and they love it that way. They're happy with bare pavement, and it makes us more money. We have a lot of snow events that start out as rain, then it snows, then it freezes, so we will anti-ice during that type of weather. When I say rain, we don't get midwest rain, or Pacific Northwest rain, not enough to run anything off the lots but enough to make ice bond to the asphalt. Everyone else gets de-icer only.


Interesting that you would pick up on the weather difference when say "not like midwest rain" I think a lot of the info posted and stated as gospel maybe just that for that persons part of the country. But I have seen a lot of snows from different parts of the country and they certainly happen different depending where you are. What works precisely in Illinois may not work very well if you are from Michigan or Ohio and dealing with lake effect snows. I have snowmobiled along the lake Michigan , Michigan side and seen some CRAZY lake effect snow events.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Kubota 8540;1930690 said:


> Interesting that you would pick up on the weather difference when say "not like midwest rain" I think a lot of the info posted and stated as gospel maybe just that for that persons part of the country. But I have seen a lot of snows from different parts of the country and they certainly happen different depending where you are. What works precisely in Illinois may not work very well if you are from Michigan or Ohio and dealing with lake effect snows. I have snowmobiled along the lake Michigan , Michigan side and seen some CRAZY lake effect snow events.


Our weather generally flows out of the PNW and is dry by the time it gets here on the east side of the Rockies. Major storms will make it over the hill, and anytime a cold front comes out of Canada then we can get moisture from the PNW and the cold from Canada. They don't always get here at the same time so some of our events start out warm or a little wet and then quickly go downhill as the cold fronts plunge out of Canada. If I drive 20 miles west and go over the hill the weather is completely different. A lot wetter.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Kubota 8540;1930690 said:


> Interesting that you would pick up on the weather difference when say "not like midwest rain" I think a lot of the info posted and stated as gospel maybe just that for that persons part of the country. But I have seen a lot of snows from different parts of the country and they certainly happen different depending where you are. What works precisely in Illinois may not work very well if you are from Michigan or Ohio and dealing with lake effect snows. I have snowmobiled along the lake Michigan , Michigan side and seen some CRAZY lake effect snow events.


After about January it is usually so cold that the moisture won't bond to the pavement because the ground is 5 degrees and the snow is really powdery. We can use leafblowers for the sidewalks and they are bare pavement.


----------



## NuverPlawd

Kubota 8540;1930673 said:


> My next attempt at satisfying my engine/pump problems will be a 10.5 hp vertical shaft engine direct coupled via lovejoy connection and a Hypro Silvercast Roller pump with gas V box throttle control in cab.
> 
> Unless I had central hydraulics, then I would use a hydraulic driven/ operated pump


Any thoughts on using a belt driven Hydraulic Clutch Pump System? Then, some type of regulator to the hydraulic powered water pump.

Muncie Clutch Pump

I've been tossing the idea around for my trucks with automatic trannys.


----------



## R&R Yard Design

Kubota can you call me at 7086708504 when you can


----------



## Brian Young

SullivanSeptic;1930223 said:


> 3/16 holes are pretty good size. I have a chart somewhere that shows the loloss of head pressure for a bunch of different size holes. I have septic system with pressure dosed laterals and they have a 1-1/2" pipe with holes drilled in it. It's amazing how quick you loose pressure if the holes aren't drilled perfectly straight with a sharp bit


I put the old bar back together using a rubber 1 1/2" tee. This bar has the 12 nozzles and wow what a difference in pressure and just performance I'd guess you'd call it over the bar with 8 pencil tips and the holes drilled between them. Hopefully this rubber tee will hold up, it's where all of our bars used to break.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

well my first rig took a crap over the summer- so I finally got around to making a new one - 325 gallon tank - added a 3 zone valve... now to work on the new boom... thinking about making one that folds in half and swing up and out of the way when not in use - as I am sick of replacing 3-4 tips a year....


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## SullivanSeptic

Perfect. That's what I want to build. I need a spec sheet. Or I need to come see yours


----------



## absolutely

Making our boom a little more beefy.


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## NorthernSvc's

SullivanSeptic;1931633 said:


> Perfect. That's what I want to build. I need a spec sheet. Or I need to come see yours


I live close to the shop so as long as im not on shift just give me a shout and your more than welcome to come check it out... I haven't had a chance to sit down and put together a spec sheet yet...

I might try to sell this one at the end of the season - I already have a few ideas for a newer better one - including making the frame out of aluminum and using a low profile tank...


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## NorthernSvc's

absolutely;1931642 said:


> Making our boom a little more beefy.


back into something? thats some beefy steel -


----------



## kc2006

That c channels only 1/8" wall, why didn't you use 1/2" wall?


----------



## TLK380

Kubota 8540;1347187 said:


> Seems that threads talking about liquids get hijacked and end up sprayer related. Have questions, problems, whats working well, trying something new, and/or post your pics of your sprayer here.


Anyone running a sprayer and a back plow?


----------



## absolutely

NorthernSvc's;1931727 said:


> back into something? thats some beefy steel -


It was planned from the start. Don't like breakdowns.


----------



## absolutely

kc2006;1931746 said:


> That c channels only 1/8" wall, why didn't you use 1/2" wall?


Just trying to prevent damage from going over a windrow or backing into a snow pile. Turbo turf protects there's as well


----------



## SullivanSeptic

absolutely;1932063 said:


> Just trying to prevent damage from going over a windrow or backing into a snow pile. Turbo turf protects there's as well


That's my biggest concern. Backing over a large pile or windrow. I tend to do it all the time. My rear bumper is usually packed with snow after a storm.


----------



## Masssnowfighter

Here is my Turbo Turf Boom, Works good for keeping the slush of the nozzles


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## SullivanSeptic

Deuce and a half? Can I have those axles please? I want them on my jeep.


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## kc2006

I'm diggin the deuce and a half for salting!


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## Masssnowfighter

yep deuce and half. Its cheaper to buy the whole truck then just the axles


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## Masssnowfighter

Liquids vs Solids. The deuce makes my F550 look like a prius.


----------



## terrapro

NorthernSvc's;1930674 said:


> I have these pumps http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/064831-pacer-550-ohv-transfer-pump.html#.VLqy-ZK9KSM
> Have had pretty good luck with them and they get used a lot.... Been averaging about 2 seasons with them and then the components get all rusted up on the motor- I just throw them away and buy a new one....


Same here. Had my last one for 5-6 years something like that. Puts down the liquid real nice and they are cheap!


----------



## terrapro

TLK380;1931748 said:


> Anyone running a sprayer and a back plow?


There was one around my parts a couple years ago. Haven't seen it lately but it shouldn't pose a problem especially if you had a set of boomless nozzles Thumbs Up


----------



## Kubota 8540

TLK380;1931748 said:


> Anyone running a sprayer and a back plow?


I'm fairly certain that pics were posted somewhere in this thread of someone making one for theirs.


----------



## kc2006

Anyone have a conversion for gpm from a boom to gallon per acre by speed of truck?


----------



## Kubota 8540

kc2006;1932290 said:


> Anyone have a conversion for gpm from a boom to gallon per acre by speed of truck?


http://www.teejet.com/english/home/calculator/calibration-calculator.aspx

But it will depend on your type and size of spray tips


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## kc2006

Nevermind, found one on teejets site.

This look right, it says 5940 times gpm, divided by the speed times width of spray. If so, the math says my 6gpm boom sprays 49gpa at 10mph with a 6' span. Sound right?


----------



## kc2006

Wow you're quick mr kubota lol.

My math above is with a spray pattern like the sj3 just i drilled the boom to replicate that cross over pattern.


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## Kubota 8540

Sitting in front of the computer having lunch reading this thread.....LOL

How many tips do you have?
How many gpm per tip?
How many inches of spacing between tips?

ok nevermind you dont have tips. Got distracted between the Fish and the cupcakes.....LOL


----------



## kc2006

I have 24 holes on a 6' boom, I drilled 3 holes every 9" and angled two holes per group out about 30 degrees. Each one is putting a quart per minute, 6gpm for the whole bar. I went small on the holes thinking I can redrill bigger if needed, they're only 5/64" I believe.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Yes I think you are about 49.5 gpa. My SJ3 black tips have (3) 3/32" holes


----------



## 86 CJ

Hey guys

Just wanted to share a pic of my updated sprayer system and new Batch of Hot Pink that Ice Patrol and I just made up this week. I still have nozzles for new boom setup on order, but will hopefully be testing out new 12v Valve with wireless remote setup today with old boom(holes drilled). Thanks Again for all of your guys help on this forum.


----------



## kc2006

Finally got my setup done. For the couple guys that were interested in the smaller solenoid valves performance, so far they've worked fine. You can get them in lot's for 25-30 each, so they're by far cheaper than the 1" teejet ball valves but I'm not sure what kind of lifespan they'll have. I also went with 2 to power my boom since they're rated at 10gpm, they have no problem putting enough liquid down. So far I like the set up, only thing I wish is I could get a tank that would have a bottom feed instead of on the side, I end up having to tilt the bed at 50 gallons to not suck air, I'm probably going to get a larger tank but I want something low pro like this one. Liquid is awesome for sidewalks too, I used to hate hand throwing calcium on smaller places, this is sweet to stand there and spray them quickly.

This thread has been a great source of knowledge!


----------



## SullivanSeptic

Have a link to them on ebay? What's the name on the valves? I just picked up a liquid unit and it has only one valve. I'd like to have a couple more for side sprays and sidewalk reel.


----------



## kc2006

I'm not sure on the number, go on tractor supplys site and look for them, they search that on ebay. Don't try to return them to tractor supply if you buy way too many, they're the number one stolen item there and the managers get really mad and nearly call the cops on you LMAO.


----------



## kc2006

BTW i have a couple from dultmeier with the weatherpack connectors on them if anyone wants to buy them for what I paid, they're still in the package. I bought them on accident and it's a pain to return to dultmeier so I just want to unload them, I'll ship them free.


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## SullivanSeptic

I may be interested. How much?


----------



## panduro

*What hose size is enoughf for the wetboom i want to build?*

Hey guys, hope this season is treating u Well.

Need to build a boom for one of my uncomplete 12v Sprayers.
The boom Will be approx 3,5 foot wide. Supply hose from tank to pump is around 3 to 4 fooot long.

This one Will spray 10-35/40 psi and output Wil be between 2 and 5 gallon pr minut.

Logically as Big supply hose as possible from tank to pump, but from pump and to boom and boom size it self? 3/8, 1/2", 1". What tube size would be a good choice for my output?

Best regards 
Ben


----------



## colin-roberts

I may have missed it, any reason we can't use standard irrigation solenoids?
I have a ton kicking around..


----------



## valleyviewlawns

colin-roberts;1945657 said:


> I may have missed it, any reason we can't use standard irrigation solenoids?
> I have a ton kicking around..


Aren't irrigation valves 24v? And they need to bypass if you are using a gas pump.


----------



## colin-roberts

You can get them in 12 but 24v is more comon, yes i would need a bypass but besides that id think it would work..


----------



## colin-roberts

Also Northern SVC I'd love to see more details on yours.. that kind of setup might kill 2 birds with one stone for me.. a nice compost tea/spray rig in summer, de ice in winter


----------



## kc2006

What liquid is everyone using? I know kubota and a few make their own. I'm using a recycled brine and so far haven't been super impressed with the stuff the msds says its 7.7% sodium, 10.3% calcium, 2.6% mag, 1.5% potassium. it's been awesome on freezing rain, 30gpa and you're gold, only other time it's worked well is a couple easy pushes we had at night where the lots were plowed very clean then sprayed at 50gpa and burned it before I left. If there's any packed snow or greater than probably 3/8" of snow you're needing 80-100gpa or salt thrown too on the packed stuff. So while still cheaper than salt it's just not feasible to haul. The other thing I noticed, when you do spray it say in the day during a snow it never burns it down completely, it just creates a slop like you'd find on the road.

Kind of wondering if making my own will work better than this stuff or is this typical? I am only buying this stuff at .16 cents delivered so that's why we tried it.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

kc2006;1947268 said:


> What liquid is everyone using? I know kubota and a few make their own. I'm using a recycled brine and so far haven't been super impressed with the stuff the msds says its 7.7% sodium, 10.3% calcium, 2.6% mag, 1.5% potassium. it's been awesome on freezing rain, 30gpa and you're gold, only other time it's worked well is a couple easy pushes we had at night where the lots were plowed very clean then sprayed at 50gpa and burned it before I left. If there's any packed snow or greater than probably 3/8" of snow you're needing 80-100gpa or salt thrown too on the packed stuff. So while still cheaper than salt it's just not feasible to haul. The other thing I noticed, when you do spray it say in the day during a snow it never burns it down completely, it just creates a slop like you'd find on the road.
> 
> Kind of wondering if making my own will work better than this stuff or is this typical? I am only buying this stuff at .16 cents delivered so that's why we tried it.


Are your streams getting to the pavement? Your results aren't too bad. The only thing that I could see making it work better is if your mix is making it to the pavement. You should have good cut lines all the way to the pavement. Ground temps will cause differing results as well. Your mix might only be good to about +20 or +25.


----------



## kc2006

valleyviewlawns;1947284 said:


> Are your streams getting to the pavement? Your results aren't too bad. The only thing that I could see making it work better is if your mix is making it to the pavement. You should have good cut lines all the way to the pavement. Ground temps will cause differing results as well. Your mix might only be good to about +20 or +25.


the msds says its freeze point is -8 so I'm not sure what that equates to ground temps. My streams won't cut threw the packed down stuff, fluff is no problem.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

kc2006;1947297 said:


> the msds says its freeze point is -8 so I'm not sure what that equates to ground temps. My streams won't cut threw the packed down stuff, fluff is no problem.


-8 is about the same as 23.5% salt brine, and salt brine only really works to about +20 to +25. If you have access to bulk salt them you can make an equivalent brine for cheaper. Otherwise your cost is pretty good. I would just mix it with calcium chloride or magnesium chloride to getting the working temps down.

I mix homemade salt brine with mag chloride here because of cost and availability. Or I use straight mag if the ground temps are lower than +5 to +7.


----------



## colin-roberts

I've started building mine, 6' pvc boom using 3/4 inch feed, i would like to cover atleast the width of my truck, using 3/8th inch holes to teejet nozzle holders. Nozzles yet to be determined, how do i go about figuring out hole spacing or needed pump pressure?


----------



## absolutely

We are looking at adding a hose reel to our system. Would like electric with 100' of house. Question is what diameter hose and what type of wand. Looking for fast application. Any suggestions on where to buy from.

Thanks


----------



## kc2006

Guys watch when you order from dultmeier, they gouge on shipping bad. Ordered a small order of fittings that came in a 10"x10"x6" box and they charged me $30 to ship. I ordered a huge shipment a few weeks ago for a complete set up that weighed 60 some lbs and it was only $17....I'm calling them and demanding they do something about it, this isn't the first time they've charged an insane amount for a smaller box.


----------



## NuverPlawd

MF 5455;1896665 said:


> White Gardens
> 
> OK. thanks for the info. BTW, your pre wet tank is looking good. My concern would be with the salt/ sand near to the rear of truck, and tank with liquid right over the pivot point, it may be slow in coming down.
> 
> My 550 has an engine mounted pump for hydraulics. Clutch driven. There is the loop for the main valve body for the raising of dump box. There is another pressure line going from the main valve body to the Force America valve system. It has 2 electric solenoids which operate the tailgate spreader from an electric power box located in the cab. There are no hydraulic lines coming into the truck. So this unit is a loop to and from the main valve. Plus the exhaust oil goes into T, which goes back into reservoir.
> 
> My thought on this... I wanted to be able to run the pre wet pump independently without interfering with the spreader, or vice versa. I may need to spread only sand, and not need the liquid.
> 
> My research and conversation with a hydraulic shop was this. I need a 1 way solenoid valve with an open center. This way, there wouldn't be any restrictions in the system so the other hydraulics are free. The valve is called a DO5 control with the manifold. $250.00 . Part # SW4-GO3-C6B-AC12V-20. Hoses and fittings around $450.00 . Labor to cut into the main lines and do the installation another $425.00 . Looking at $1,000.00 if I have shop do it.
> 
> The other option is to do what you suggested. Put a jumper in and hope it works.
> 
> The engine mounted pump presently on truck produces 17 gpm. The auger uses 9 gpm, I think, and spinner uses 5. I believe this would be under full load. I think for pre wetting, the pump would be barely operating. One, maybe 2 -1/2" hoses run to spinner ?? The pre wet pump motor uses 7 gpm I think.
> 
> I have a perfectly good 3 point hitch sprayer that I thought about using. Already set up ready to be used with few simple modifications. But holding off because of the extra set of wet lines needed.
> 
> I love the hydraulic set up tho. No gas can, it is quiet, and very compact.
> 
> jim


For a pre-wet setup, you could just skip all the bs and go DC electric demand pump. 10/11 gpm 40 psi sotera pump would work plenty.


----------



## NuverPlawd

kc2006;1947268 said:


> What liquid is everyone using? I know kubota and a few make their own. I'm using a recycled brine and so far haven't been super impressed with the stuff the msds says its 7.7% sodium, 10.3% calcium, 2.6% mag, 1.5% potassium. it's been awesome on freezing rain, 30gpa and you're gold, only other time it's worked well is a couple easy pushes we had at night where the lots were plowed very clean then sprayed at 50gpa and burned it before I left. If there's any packed snow or greater than probably 3/8" of snow you're needing 80-100gpa or salt thrown too on the packed stuff. So while still cheaper than salt it's just not feasible to haul. The other thing I noticed, when you do spray it say in the day during a snow it never burns it down completely, it just creates a slop like you'd find on the road.
> 
> Kind of wondering if making my own will work better than this stuff or is this typical? I am only buying this stuff at .16 cents delivered so that's why we tried it.


.16 delivered is awesome. That MSDS shows a great brine base for fair weather spraying. You'd have at least .10 into the water to make it + all our ********. Get some liquid Cal for those dropping nights and a big ass pump (my biggest mistake yet).

One thing I will say about making my own brine.. it has helped me to understand a little better about the basic principles of liquids. But, thats how I am, I like the ********-its how I learn.


----------



## kc2006

I don't think the msds is true, I was playing with the brine yesterday, I mixed some at 80/20 (brine/32%cal) and it stayed in solution. I ended up doing some at 70/30 today and so far it's fine, I think they're BSing about what's in it.


----------



## NuverPlawd

kc2006;1951750 said:


> I don't think the msds is true, I was playing with the brine yesterday, I mixed some at 80/20 (brine/32%cal) and it stayed in solution. I ended up doing some at 70/30 today and so far it's fine, I think they're BSing about what's in it.


It's tough to call.. I mean it can fluctuate, but lies are bad for business. This is why I make my own, I know exactly what's in it. With all those different salts I don't think you can use a salometer to test it. You'd have to send it out to your state college for complete chemical comp. test.. Probably could do one of their drinking water tests, costs around $200.

Just out of curiousity now that I see where you're located- is this Seneca Mineral Well Brine?

How else can use test the eutectic point? Just freezing a test tube should let you know its safe to use. Using it as a base should be good (it's cheap enough), so long as you test it.. but then the next delivery could be totally different.

Or, build a brine maker and start from a clean slate


----------



## kc2006

I'm going to build a maker and just start making my own. I have 1,000 gallons of this stuff left so I wanted to play with it some and now I'll just add some LCC to make it work better.

And it's a company out of cleveland.


----------



## NuverPlawd

kc2006;1951976 said:


> I'm going to build a maker and just start making my own. I have 1,000 gallons of this stuff left so I wanted to play with it some and now I'll just add some LCC to make it work better.
> 
> And it's a company out of cleveland.


Cool. RTV Silicone will become your BFF.


----------



## absolutely

NuverPlawd;1951631 said:


> For a pre-wet setup, you could just skip all the bs and go DC electric demand pump. 10/11 gpm 40 psi sotera pump would work plenty.


At 10 gallons a minute you would have some pretty soupy salt depending on your spreader. That would empty a 30 gallon tank in 3 minutes. We use a 3.2 gpm and it works out just about perfect. We have a 60 gallon tank and a 3 yard spreader and we can get 2 full hoppers with a touch left over which puts it in the 8 - 10 gallons per ton.


----------



## NuverPlawd

absolutely;1952039 said:


> At 10 gallons a minute you would have some pretty soupy salt depending on your spreader. That would empty a 30 gallon tank in 3 minutes. We use a 3.2 gpm and it works out just about perfect. We have a 60 gallon tank and a 3 yard spreader and we can get 2 full hoppers with a touch left over which puts it in the 8 - 10 gallons per ton.


You adjust app w/ tips.. But the cheaper the better. Problem is duty cycle..


----------



## 86 CJ

NuverPlawd;1952043 said:


> You adjust app w/ tips.. But the cheaper the better. Problem is duty cycle..


For those of you running the sj3 black tips. Are you running your pumps on idle? If you were at some locations where you could only do 5mph, would you change to green, or another color?


----------



## NuverPlawd

86 CJ;1953009 said:


> For those of you running the sj3 black tips. Are you running your pumps on idle? If you were at some locations where you could only do 5mph, would you change to green, or another color?


I use irrigation nozzles that allow me to adjust on the nozzle tip itself. Sorry I can't be too much of help with the Teejets. I'm on their boomless flood nozzle xtender tips... got a looong way to go before I figure them out. + type of pump and the engine and the boom + How many tips + length of pipe + diam. of pipe + kind of chemical + environment = ? = trial and error.


----------



## Kubota 8540

86 CJ;1953009 said:


> For those of you running the sj3 black tips. Are you running your pumps on idle? If you were at some locations where you could only do 5mph, would you change to green, or another color?


I usually run about 1/4 throttle and spray 5-10 mph depending on how much liquid I want to put down or how fast the situation will let me drive. Depending on the spacing of your nozzles, mph and volume you want to put down, you could change to a lesser volume nozzle.

I feel comfortable with SJ3's Black for what I use them for.

I also know guys that use 1/4" hose barbs and like their results. Whatever you need to accomplish your objective?


----------



## 86 CJ

Kubota 8540;1953882 said:


> I usually run about 1/4 throttle and spray 5-10 mph depending on how much liquid I want to put down or how fast the situation will let me drive. Depending on the spacing of your nozzles, mph and volume you want to put down, you could change to a lesser volume nozzle.
> 
> I feel comfortable with SJ3's Black for what I use them for.
> 
> I also know guys that use 1/4" hose barbs and like their results. Whatever you need to accomplish your objective?


Thanks for the info guys. I am going from my 8' 1" (drilled holes) boom to 8' 1" boom again w 5 Black Teejet SJ3 tips spaced 20" apart. I am running a 5.5hp 2" pump to a 1" hose down to the boom, 12v 3 way Valve on a remote from the cab. I guess I can keep it down on idle on some of my slower spots, then open the pump up a bit on the larger lot areas(or pick up some Green spray tips). Jim, what kind of GPM or GPA am I at with this setup? I am spraying your famous 90/10 blend


----------



## Kubota 8540

86 CJ;1953904 said:


> Thanks for the info guys. I am going from my 8' 1" (drilled holes) boom to 8' 1" boom again w 5 Black Teejet SJ3 tips spaced 20" apart. I am running a 5.5hp 2" pump to a 1" hose down to the boom, 12v 3 way Valve on a remote from the cab. I guess I can keep it down on idle on some of my slower spots, then open the pump up a bit on the larger lot areas(or pick up some Green spray tips). Jim, what kind of GPM or GPA am I at with this setup? I am spraying your famous 90/10 blend


http://www.teejet.com/english/home/calculator/calibration-calculator.aspx

https://www.dultmeier.com/prod-info.php?info=ssMM-SJ3015VP-Nozzle-Chart.jpg


----------



## kc2006

86 CJ;1953904 said:


> Thanks for the info guys. I am going from my 8' 1" (drilled holes) boom to 8' 1" boom again w 5 Black Teejet SJ3 tips spaced 20" apart. I am running a 5.5hp 2" pump to a 1" hose down to the boom, 12v 3 way Valve on a remote from the cab. I guess I can keep it down on idle on some of my slower spots, then open the pump up a bit on the larger lot areas(or pick up some Green spray tips). Jim, what kind of GPM or GPA am I at with this setup? I am spraying your famous 90/10 blend


How many tips and what mph? You need to know that to convert GPM to gpa.

My drilled boom puts out pretty much the same as a boom I built with blacks, if i plow a lot and it's really clean, I turn it down to an idle and can put down only 30-40gpa, if it has thick crap I'll turn it up to 1/4idle and close up my regulating valve some to get stronger pressure.


----------



## 86 CJ

Thanks guys

What kind of PSI does a 5.5hp 2" pump putting out on Idle?? 1/4 throttle?

I see I need to know this to use the TeeJet chart correctly.


----------



## Kubota 8540

86 CJ;1953964 said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> What kind of PSI does a 5.5hp 2" pump putting out on Idle?? 1/4 throttle?
> 
> I see I need to know this to use the TeeJet chart correctly.


Most likely 20 psi. But gauges are wonderful things.


----------



## 86 CJ

Kubota 8540;1953995 said:


> Most likely 20 psi. But gauges are wonderful things.


Thanks Jim

Yes...Need to add one of those to the setup Thumbs Up


----------



## kc2006

I have the econoag pump and it doesn't make much pressure at all. I have to use a regulating valve to build pressure otherwise I only have like 10psi.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Well most of the pumps that are used are really not intended for spraying applications, but they are fairly inexpensive at $200-300. They are generally dewatering pumps where psi is not important, just volume. However if you would like to spend the better part of $1,000 you can easily get 50+ psi out of a pump.


----------



## kc2006

No I'm good with my $250 pump lol. I just thought there was something wrong with mine that it made such low pressure compared to what others say. I have to crank mine to 1/4 throttle and really close up the regulating valve to build 40psi.


----------



## Kubota 8540

kc2006;1954048 said:


> No I'm good with my $250 pump lol. I just thought there was something wrong with mine that it made such low pressure compared to what others say. I have to crank mine to 1/4 throttle and really close up the regulating valve to build 40psi.


No, really probably about right. When the pumps say 40-45 psi, that generally means the max pressure capable, not general operating pressure. At least thats what I have noticed. Also a pressure gauge at the pump outlet will read different than a gauge located at the spray bar.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

hey kc its bytheyard. aquasalina has been working fine for me . but your right wont cut hard pack. but they told us that. best to just keep lots clean then spray. I have had to plow a bit more then with salt but once we clear them works great. and yes is bad ass on black ice. and have saved a lot of money compared to salt.


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## kc2006

What type of usage are you seeing post plow? I was really hoping to use it for the salt run nights too, but i can't get it to cut more than probably 3/8".


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

post plowing we use less , than if I was just spraying on a salt night. it will cut 3/8 to 1 inch if its a cold dry snow. I will say im surprised by how much fluid we use in one night. thought we would use less. you read 1 tote = 3 to 5 tons of salt. that's total bs. on a heavy night I would say 1 330 gallon tote is about equal to a ton of salt. and yet if you do the math sill way cheaper than salt. only problem is handling that type of wheight. 3 tons of salt = 6000 pounds 990 gallons is 9990 lbs. yet we have only used liquid this year, it can be done.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

one more thing . just like salt I never sat around and waited to see if its was working. same with this . salt night apply heavy and go.my lots are bare pavement and have been all season.


----------



## Kubota 8540

bytheyardlandsc;1957063 said:


> post plowing we use less , than if I was just spraying on a salt night. it will cut 3/8 to 1 inch if its a cold dry snow. I will say im surprised by how much fluid we use in one night. thought we would use less. you read 1 tote = 3 to 5 tons of salt. that's total bs. on a heavy night I would say 1 330 gallon tote is about equal to a ton of salt. and yet if you do the math sill way cheaper than salt. only problem is handling that type of wheight. 3 tons of salt = 6000 pounds 990 gallons is 9990 lbs. yet we have only used liquid this year, it can be done.


So how much does this product cost?


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Kubota 8540;1957102 said:


> So how much does this product cost?


It cost .12 cents a gallon


----------



## kc2006

It's .12 cents a gallon kubota.

I still think it's way weaker than what they advertise. I burned an inch off one time but I was to the tune of 100-120gpa. Still cheaper than rock salt but like you said bytheyard, it's logistically a nightmare.

I'm really leaning towards just a 100 gallon tank to wet the spinner and use on sidewalks (love it on walks) and try to cut down on salt usage a hair more. we salt lots on the skimpy side, just enough to get the job done and frequently (a lot of our places want salted multiple times so you have build up of residual) so the old 600 lb per acre stats don't work for me, we're more like 300-400 tops, so comparatively we see $15-20 acres with salt vs $9-12 acres with Aqua. I'd be happier seeing $10-15 acres spraying the spinner and hauling way less weight.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Price is good. But handling liquid by the tote is sort of like handling salt by the bag......YUCK


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Kubota 8540;1957102 said:


> So how much does this product cost?


It cost .12 cents a gallon


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

I have a 930 tank in my truck . the per tote was just a refrance point . but we still use 12 to 13 hundred gallons on a heavy day. have gotten away with 800 on lighter days.


----------



## 86 CJ

kc2006;1957130 said:


> It's .12 cents a gallon kubota.
> 
> I still think it's way weaker than what they advertise. I burned an inch off one time but I was to the tune of 100-120gpa. Still cheaper than rock salt but like you said bytheyard, it's logistically a nightmare.
> 
> I'm really leaning towards just a 100 gallon tank to wet the spinner and use on sidewalks (love it on walks) and try to cut down on salt usage a hair more. we salt lots on the skimpy side, just enough to get the job done and frequently (a lot of our places want salted multiple times so you have build up of residual) so the old 600 lb per acre stats don't work for me, we're more like 300-400 tops, so comparatively we see $15-20 acres with salt vs $9-12 acres with Aqua. I'd be happier seeing $10-15 acres spraying the spinner and hauling way less weight.


Are you guys using the + version with the inhibitor? Have you compared it to a 90/10 Calcium/Sodium Blend that some of us use on this site thanks to Kubota? I would be curious to see the results. The price is good being ready to go and it can be marketed to spray on sidewalks( as they say)...


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

the plus just has the inhibitor added that's all but 3 times the cost. yes its nice that's it ready to go and fillterd down to 1 micron. no clogging here.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

the msds sheet shows 7.7 sodium 10.3 calcium 2.6 mag and 1.5 potassium. shows 20-23 % chlorides.


----------



## kc2006

I haven't used 90/10 sodium/cal, but I did a little test with this stuff.

I assumed since the msds says 20-23% chlorides I treated it as 23% sodium, and figured if I add 10% of 32% calcium it should hold just like you guys, and it did. So I did another test with 80/20 which kubota said falls out after a while, it held. I got to 25% and it held for a day, next day it fell out. So I think Aqua is low in chlorides. I mean, their msds is from 2003 so how do they know what they're really selling at this point.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Did you add calcium to aquasalina product ? Or to a home brew.


----------



## kc2006

To aquasalina. The other thing that makes me think it's low is the product only weighs 9lbs per gallon when you weigh it. There should be about 2lbs of chlorides which would put us at 10lbs.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

That's a good point never thought about weighing it. Was told it was 10.2 lbs per gallon.


----------



## 86 CJ

bytheyardlandsc;1957308 said:


> That's a good point never thought about weighing it. Was told it was 10.2 lbs per gallon.


Thanks for all the info on the product guys.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

kc2006;1957305 said:


> To aquasalina. The other thing that makes me think it's low is the product only weighs 9lbs per gallon when you weigh it. There should be about 2lbs of chlorides which would put us at 10lbs.


ok you got me. so I weighed it empty washer bottle came up 11.4 lbs. including the bottle. you know by adding 10% calcium to this your all most doubling you cost. no im sorry you are doubling your cost just did the math.


----------



## kc2006

I weighed mine on different scales and got 9lb and 9.1 lb (same bottle just to double check my scale) maybe this just goes to show the inconsistency of the product?

And I know I'm doubling the cost but I'm trying to get it to work at lower GPA numbers to make it feasible to haul. Again, worth it to me to pay more and not have to plow with 6-10 thousand pounds in my bed. The other problem I've seen is when the temps are cold the product doesn't melt stuff off completely if you get some snow showers on it after applied, makes lots look like roads with that sandy/grimy slush, that's why I saw it necessary to add some calcium to get a better burn.

My one friend sent me video of him spraying it on a sidewalk the other nice and it flashing over and creating slush instantly. That's my biggest issue right now, I'm pretty sure this product is VERY inconsistant. Heck the one batch we got had 3/4" of oil on the top.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Your right weight is my biggest issue . But salt will end up sloppy also if it continues to snow. If I was to double my cost I'd just use salt. If I could get some lol. I haven't seen any oil in mine yet. Sorry your not having good results . Remember this is a big learning curve for all of us were all use to just spreading salt and that's it. Give it time and good luck.


----------



## MahonLawnCare

bytheyardlandsc;1957188 said:


> I have a 930 tank in my truck . the per tote was just a refrance point . but we still use 12 to 13 hundred gallons on a heavy day. have gotten away with 800 on lighter days.


You make great points. That's why we have just been running rock. It's a nightmare trying to haul a heavy liquid tank around not to mention the rocking that makes you sea sick. Kurt and I have been in constant contact about Aqua and I believe it's low on chlorides as well. It will burn off maybe 3/8'' tops anything more and you have to plow it. Which is why I went liquid to start, I wanted the residual magic people speak of. Especially with seasonals. I don't want to plow them. Just spray and re-spray. I found that when we were still running Aqua I had the best results spraying initially then having a one of my guys come through and lightly salt it. It was fire then. But then I had to pay another operator to drive truck. So I just said the hell with it for now. I ran 4000k gallons of it so I had a very big test sample. For next season, we are going to get LCC and add it to the Salina. I think that's going to be the way to go. As well as a larger dump because the totes don't cut it. 275 =3-5 tons of salt, maybe spread at 2 ton an acre. Even Sagamore sent an e-mail out to those of us that were at their liquid conference this fall stating the cholorides were lower than initially thought. All they sell is Aqua under their trade name. There's def a learning curve but I think almost having a dedicated liquid only truck or pre-wet is the way to go. We're never going to get away with salt completely.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Quick thought . If the clo rides are low how come the liquid never freezes . Just a thought .


----------



## kc2006

In the last batch I got one tote was frozen 1/4 of the way. 

I was going to set a gallon of it out tonight and watch it tomorrow, since ambient is supposed to be -10, I want to see when it does freeze.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Good idea. I'll do the same.


----------



## kc2006

Are you buying from mogadore or cleveland?


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Mogadore . How about you ?


----------



## Ice Patrol

MF 5455;1905113 said:


> panduro;1905081 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haha in that case no pictures of current status as that would be carriors with spreaders on Them...
> 
> Just won action 2 days Ago and are waiting for Them to respon to when i Can pickup... Hope they are open over Christmas but probobly not...
> 
> Read alot writen of u and kubota about nozzles. It seems stream nozzles are prefered for the type of jobs you two do, but what is the sidewalk guys using, it would Seem to me that flat tips would be better at giving me complete coverage when i leave "no" snow.
> 
> Is it a Wong assumtion that stream nozzles need more product to give coverage unless there is a bit of snow that it Will kind of spread move the brine when dilutingwith?have no heavy traffick iether.
> 
> Ben
> 
> I don't have a lot of sidewalks this year. Most of what I do have I can reach with the side boom on back of truck. What I can't reach this way, I have 100' water hose hooked up to sprayer and we cover them that way. I can't speak for others doing sidewalks, but far as I know, there are no contractors here where I live that spray their walks. They only sand or salt. Canada is way behind you people in this matter. I am really the only one spraying my lots in a modern way with brine. Another contractor has a very small sprayer, but it just trickles out. His price for brine is very costly. He wanted to sell to me for .90 cents liter. ( $3.40 gallon )
> 
> My set up is mostly different than others on this site perhaps. It is run by hydraulics from truck, and my spray boom has equally spaced nozzles, but they are 1/8" diameter outlets for parking lot, and 1/4" for roadways. Little pressure to apply, but to me streamers are an excellent all purpose nozzle to use. ( Kubota helped me understand this theory.)
> Fan nozzles work well for anti icing, but if its windy or nozzles are mounted too high off pavement, there is horrible salt mist everywhere, and I found I didn't have real good coverage.
> Streamers are good for breaking through the ice or hard pack barrier. My hydraulic motor driving the pump has variable speed. If the pavement is bare as in ant icing, (before the storm), I keep the motor speed low. If I'm spraying post storm, and there is hard pack, than I up the motor speed which gives a scenario like a drill bit going through steel.
> Also, my brine when i first started making it wasn't as clean as now. I has some difficulties with the smaller nozzles plugging up.
> All in all, the first spray set up I was using was much smaller, and less attractive to me for doing the larger lots.
> The set up we currently are using allows me to spray a complete parking lot, (4-5 acres) in 10 minutes. And when I say spray, that means the complete lot is wet when I leave. The streamer spray all blends together when traffic drives over it as well.
> I'm guessing that the majority of your sidewalks are 4'-5' wide so a good fan spray or 2-3 streamer nozzles would work excellent.
> Have you ever tried anti icing your walks, and than after the snow see the difference in cleaning them ?
> Do you use rock salt for your brine as in bulk, or with the bags ?
> Couple pics of sprayer....
> 
> Jim tymusic
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Jim,
> 
> Can you provide details on the brand and type of nozzles you are using on your side boom setup?
Click to expand...


----------



## Laszlo Almasi

Subscribed. I'm getting ready to get onboard the spray wagon myself. I just bought some LSS to test and see how I like it but plan on making my own once I find a good source for my ingredients.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

*sea sickness*



MahonLawnCare;1957895 said:


> You make great points. That's why we have just been running rock. It's a nightmare trying to haul a heavy liquid tank around not to mention the rocking that makes you sea sick. Kurt and I have been in constant contact about Aqua and I believe it's low on chlorides as well. It will burn off maybe 3/8'' tops anything more and you have to plow it. Which is why I went liquid to start, I wanted the residual magic people speak of. Especially with seasonals. I don't want to plow them. Just spray and re-spray. I found that when we were still running Aqua I had the best results spraying initially then having a one of my guys come through and lightly salt it. It was fire then. But then I had to pay another operator to drive truck. So I just said the hell with it for now. I ran 4000k gallons of it so I had a very big test sample. For next season, we are going to get LCC and add it to the Salina. I think that's going to be the way to go. As well as a larger dump because the totes don't cut it. 275 =3-5 tons of salt, maybe spread at 2 ton an acre. Even Sagamore sent an e-mail out to those of us that were at their liquid conference this fall stating the cholorides were lower than initially thought. All they sell is Aqua under their trade name. There's def a learning curve but I think almost having a dedicated liquid only truck or pre-wet is the way to go. We're never going to get away with salt completely.


first off you need to baffle your tank if its making you sick. a 330 gallon tote or a 275 will take 100 foot of 3 inch perforated black drain pipe. just stuff it in there it dosent need to be neat. problem solved. as far as the clorides go if they were low it would freeze and it dosent. and if you add cc to aqua salina your clorides with fall out , guarantee that. ask sagamore they know. if you can run both by putting a tote in your dump and gravity feed it to your spinner best of both worlds. my problem is salt prices are to dam high for no apparent reason. both salt and liquid have there pros and cons. but when it comes to cost the extra weight is worth it by far.Thumbs Up


----------



## SullivanSeptic

bytheyardlandsc;1960094 said:


> first off you need to baffle your tank if its making you sick. a 330 gallon tote or a 275 will take 100 foot of 3 inch perforated black drain pipe. just stuff it in there it dosent need to be neat. problem solved. as far as the clorides go if they were low it would freeze and it dosent. and if you add cc to aqua salina your clorides with fall out , guarantee that. ask sagamore they know. if you can run both by putting a tote in your dump and gravity feed it to your spinner best of both worlds. my problem is salt prices are to dam high for no apparent reason. both salt and liquid have there pros and cons. but when it comes to cost the extra weight is worth it by far.Thumbs Up


Just reading all this and I have a question. It sounds like he's product mix isn't the issue. So why is he having to use so much liquid per acre?


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

*per acre*



SullivanSeptic;1960100 said:


> Just reading all this and I have a question. It sounds like he's product mix isn't the issue. So why is he having to use so much liquid per acre?


on a very light day you could get by with 40 to 60 galloons per. but that has to be very light. 3/8 to 1/2 you better step it up70 to 90 per .and word is some guys are as high as 100 to 125.Thumbs Up but all of this depends on the moister content of the snow. colder dryer snow your going to use less. wet moist, some what packing snow your going to use more. and salt is no different . there's times we hammered salt to the ground and days where you dust it . same deal.


----------



## Kubota 8540

SullivanSeptic;1960100 said:


> Just reading all this and I have a question. It sounds like he's product mix isn't the issue. So why is he having to use so much liquid per acre?


Hey I have been doing this awhile. Why when using a gravity system does it take more gpa then when I spray? Makes no sense to me, but it does.

40-125 gpa is what I have experienced. Just like salt, sometimes a little, some times a lot.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

*gravity*



Kubota 8540;1960150 said:


> Hey I have been doing this awhile. Why when using a gravity system does it take more gpa then when I spray? Makes no sense to me, but it does.
> 
> 40-125 gpa is what I have experienced. Just like salt, sometimes a little, some times a lot.


honestly I don't gravity feed enough to say why. but im thinking bigger holes in your boom and mabey slower ground speed ? just a guise.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

I have a question for you kabota. your 90/10 mix is 90% brine and 10% calcium is that correct ? and if so how much salt to 400 gallons of water to make brine at 90% . and what would happen if you made your brine 100% salt water then added 10% cc . please fill me in. thx sorry that's more than one question lol


----------



## kc2006

Gravity probably takes more because you aren't getting the liquid down to ground as easy. With a pressure system you blast down to pavement where the liquid can start to work. I've seen first hand if the product doesn't hit pavement it does nothing, just saturates and becomes too diluted before it can start melting.

By the yard, I buy from mogadore too. I've taken a gallon sample out of each tank for the past couple weeks and mixed in 10-15% calcium with no fallout, so we've been adding 5-10% lately and it's been working good now, been in the 40-50gpa for post plow up to Id say 3/8", before we were 70-80 for the same. Apples to apples we're a dollar more per acre but cut weight hauling by 300lbs per acre. Win win in my book.

Being that salt got cut everywhere and it's now $120-150 a ton, had to figure out someway to make this work.


----------



## Kubota 8540

bytheyardlandsc;1960173 said:


> I have a question for you kabota. your 90/10 mix is 90% brine and 10% calcium is that correct ? and if so how much salt to 400 gallons of water to make brine at 90% . and what would happen if you made your brine 100% salt water then added 10% cc . please fill me in. thx sorry that's more than one question lol


My salt brine is mixed to 23.5%.

90% brine and 10% calcium chloride, Yes.

1,000 pounds of salt to make a 23.5% solution. Usually some left undissolved in the brinemaker. Generally solar salt is what I use. Just cleaner and a lot less mess and debris.

If you mix in too much salt, it will freeze at 32 degrees.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

*ratio*



kc2006;1960175 said:


> Gravity probably takes more because you aren't getting the liquid down to ground as easy. With a pressure system you blast down to pavement where the liquid can start to work. I've seen first hand if the product doesn't hit pavement it does nothing, just saturates and becomes too diluted before it can start melting.
> 
> By the yard, I buy from mogadore too. I've taken a gallon sample out of each tank for the past couple weeks and mixed in 10-15% calcium with no fallout, so we've been adding 5-10% lately and it's been working good now, been in the 40-50gpa for post plow up to Id say 3/8", before we were 70-80 for the same. Apples to apples we're a dollar more per acre but cut weight hauling by 300lbs per acre. Win win in my book.
> 
> Being that salt got cut everywhere and it's now $120-150 a ton, had to figure out someway to make this work.[/QUOTE
> 
> so what are you adding say 10 lbs per 100 gallons ?


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Kubota 8540;1960179 said:


> My salt brine is mixed to 23.5%.
> 
> 90% brine and 10% calcium chloride, Yes.
> 
> 1,000 pounds of salt to make a 23.5% solution. Usually some left undissolved in the brinemaker. Generally solar salt is what I use. Just cleaner and a lot less mess and debris.
> 
> If you mix in too much salt, it will freeze at 32 degrees.


I guise what im asking is if your final product is at 23.3% or 33.3% after you add cc. thx


----------



## kc2006

No it's 32% calcium chloride that I'm adding 10% by volume. So 90 gallons of aquasalina, and 10 gallons of 32% calcium chloride.


----------



## kc2006

I can't speak for kubota but he's probably using 32% cal, so 10% of 32 is 3.2, and 90% of 23.5 is 21.15 so mathematically can we say it's 24.35% chlorides?


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

kc2006;1960193 said:


> No it's 32% calcium chloride that I'm adding 10% by volume. So 90 gallons of aquasalina, and 10 gallons of 32% calcium chloride.


ok so how much cc to 10 gallons of water to get 32%?


----------



## kc2006

Oxy's website says 4lbs per gallon, but I read somewhere else it's like 4lbs to .82 gallon. I don't have a hydrometer that measures calcium so I go to a gallon of water. Stuff gets crazy hot, I mix it in 5 gallon batches and it gets 60 degree water up to 175.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

kc2006;1960203 said:


> Oxy's website says 4lbs per gallon, but I read somewhere else it's like 4lbs to .82 gallon. I don't have a hydrometer that measures calcium so I go to a gallon of water. Stuff gets crazy hot, I mix it in 5 gallon batches and it gets 60 degree water up to 175.


so your adding 40 lbs of cc to 10 gallons of water. mixing that up then adding that to your 90 gallons of aqua ? is that what your saying ? sorry im a little lost.


----------



## kc2006

Yes exactly.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

kc2006;1960240 said:


> Yes exactly.


So I would need 320 lbs of cc to say 900 gallons. And 50 lbs of cc is 15.00 per bag. X 7 = 105.00. That's the cost to add cc. When 900 gallons by its self is only 108.00. Your doubling the cost. Please correct me if I'm wrong .


----------



## Kubota 8540

bytheyardlandsc;1960192 said:


> I guise what im asking is if your final product is at 23.3% or 33.3% after you add cc. thx


Well I am sure the specific gravity reading is different after I added the calcium chloride, but I have never measured it. I mix my brine to 23.5% then I add BY VOLUME 10% of 32% Liquidow.

So I have a 1,400 gallon batch of 23.5% salt brine I then add 140 gallons of 32% Liquidow. My 1,550 gallon batch tank is then full (enough)


----------



## Kubota 8540

kc2006;1960193 said:


> No it's 32% calcium chloride that I'm adding 10% by volume. So 90 gallons of aquasalina, and 10 gallons of 32% calcium chloride.


I would refer to that as 90/10.


----------



## Kubota 8540

kc2006;1960198 said:


> I can't speak for kubota but he's probably using 32% cal, so 10% of 32 is 3.2, and 90% of 23.5 is 21.15 so mathematically can we say it's 24.35% chlorides?


No, I dont think so.


----------



## Kubota 8540

:laughing: No, but if you had a hundred dollar bill and a fifty dollar bill and I took 90% of the 100 and 10% of the fifty I would gladly swap with you?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;1960287 said:


> :laughing: No, but if you had a hundred dollar bill and a fifty dollar bill and I took 90% of the 100 and 10% of the fifty I would gladly swap with you?


Kubota...TOO funny !!!

You have too much time on your hands. :laughing::laughing:


----------



## kc2006

Why wouldn't it mean 24.35% total chlorides? 23.5% sodium chloride means there's 2.35 lbs of salt per gallon no? And there's 3.2lb of calcium per gallon of 32% LCC right? 

Do the math on 100 gallons of 90/10, mathematically it means there's 211.5 lbs salt and 32lbs calcium in it...aka 24.35%.


----------



## kc2006

bytheyardlandsc;1960266 said:


> So I would need 320 lbs of cc to say 900 gallons. And 50 lbs of cc is 15.00 per bag. X 7 = 105.00. That's the cost to add cc. When 900 gallons by its self is only 108.00. Your doubling the cost. Please correct me if I'm wrong .


Yes I'm almost doubling cost going from .12 a gallon for Aqua to .21 for 90/10, but I'm cutting GPA by like 40%.


----------



## MF 5455

Ice Patrol

I am including some pictures of nozzles I'm using. The hose barb type have .125 (1/8") diameter hole. These work perfect for my application. Boom has 9/16" holes drilled every 10", and than a clip on type nozzle body.

The yellow double nozzle has .062 (1/16") holes in the double body. I tried them, but so far don't really care about how they work. Maybe larger holes drilled in them ???

The spray boom I am currently using has 8 clip on type nozzles and 2 of the same hose barb type screwed into the end caps...one on each end.

This set up will put out some brine. I also have 2 side arm booms which are 90 degree to vertical boom. They each have 6 of the same type 1/8" hose barb nozzles. I use them primarily for sidewalks when I can drive parallel with them. The side booms will spray out up to 8' if I adjust the hydraulic pump pressure upwards.

Jim tymusic


----------



## MF 5455

Ice Patrol

Couple more pictures of the nozzle type I am using.

Jim tymusic


----------



## MF 5455

Ice Patrol

I forgot to mention that the yellow type double nozzle is rated at 1.5 gpm.

For the rest of you guys who are into the brine spraying...

I checked my storage tanks today as well as my SS brine maker to see whether my brine was frozen, slushy or ok. The temps here this morning were hovering in the minus 20-25 degrees fah. The brine was ok, no signs of anything freezing. IMHO, straight salt brine does the job for us. I will say tho, that we haven't done ANY spraying since the temps have fallen into the below zero range, and we have had plenty of those nights. Today was a high of minus 5 fah. The parking lots we take care of are scraped as close to asphalt as possible. Still, we are hesitant to spray as we have concern of dilution and refreeze. Sure as heck don't want any slip and fall complaints and insurance claims.

You guys have any comments on how you feel about the extreme cold weather and spraying ???

Jim tymusic


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

*refreeze*



MF 5455;1960350 said:


> Ice Patrol
> 
> I forgot to mention that the yellow type double nozzle is rated at 1.5 gpm.
> 
> For the rest of you guys who are into the brine spraying...
> 
> I checked my storage tanks today as well as my SS brine maker to see whether my brine was frozen, slushy or ok. The temps here this morning were hovering in the minus 20-25 degrees fah. The brine was ok, no signs of anything freezing. IMHO, straight salt brine does the job for us. I will say tho, that we haven't done ANY spraying since the temps have fallen into the below zero range, and we have had plenty of those nights. Today was a high of minus 5 fah. The parking lots we take care of are scraped as close to asphalt as possible. Still, we are hesitant to spray as we have concern of dilution and refreeze. Sure as heck don't want any slip and fall complaints and insurance claims.
> 
> You guys have any comments on how you feel about the extreme cold weather and spraying ???
> 
> Jim tymusic


we have been spraying in the cold temps, but we are using aquasalina has 8 to 10 % cc in it already. going to treat my school at 4:30 tomorrow morning. temp should be about 0 degrees. oh joy.


----------



## MF 5455

Ok..

I have never heard of Aquasalina until today, (from plow site). It sounds slippery, tho. Lol.

I do know that in the locale where we live, most, if not all the spraying that takes place by municipalities and highway depts., have quit using all other types of liquids but salt brine. It was documented that the use of Calcium Chloride, beet juice, cheese brine solution and mag. chloride caused the roadways to have a slick, snotty residue on the surface of asphalt at certain temps. As far as I know, presently it has been advised to use the salt brine straight, and or with the rock salt. (prewetting). I have also read numberous reports from the USA also, of the recommendation on only using straight brine. I believe it was the state of Iowa that had some recent reviews and blog on the subject.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Actually aquasalina is approved for road use. Cleveland prefers it over salt brine. It burns black ice like it's nothing. And works best in these colder temps. It has it all salt mag cc potassium and is all natural . Right from mother earth. This is all I have used this year and so far working great and saving money. All you could ask for. Most of my lots are cleaner than lots that are being salted.


----------



## Jet Stream

*We DELIVER LIQUID CC BLEND by truckloads*



bytheyardlandsc;1960659 said:


> Actually aquasalina is approved for road use. Cleveland prefers it over salt brine. It burns black ice like it's nothing. And works best in these colder temps. It has it all salt mag cc potassium and is all natural . Right from mother earth. This is all I have used this year and so far working great and saving money. All you could ask for. Most of my lots are cleaner than lots that are being salted.


Our LCC comes "right from mother earth" also. Anyone interested can PM me or email me at [email protected] for pricing.

While exact concentrations will vary 
slightly, our product contains:

21 to 24% Calcium Chloride
4.11 to 5% Magnesium Chloride
1.68 to 2% Potassium Chloride
3.78 to 4% Sodium Chloride


----------



## STARSHIP

kc2006;1960175 said:


> Gravity probably takes more because you aren't getting the liquid down to ground as easy. With a pressure system you blast down to pavement where the liquid can start to work. I've seen first hand if the product doesn't hit pavement it does nothing, just saturates and becomes too diluted before it can start melting.


Kind of like when you, I mean your dog, is peeing outside. When things are coming out full throttle, it gets down to the ground. But when things are finishing up at a slower rate, it kind of splatters and covers a larger surface area, but doesn't quite get down in there as good.


----------



## 69charger

*Brine*



Kubota 8540;1589343 said:


> Yes, I have done so with small batches. But I did shortly after I originally mixed it too strong. I would be careful doing so and leaving it set for a long period of time seeing how 26.5% mix will freeze @32 F?


So, if your brine is stronger than 23.3% it will actually freeze at a higher temp? I'm new to this and trying to learn, so I'm reading this now as a resource. At 23.3, what does it freeze at? And what if I do 10% LCC. Also I know you like the sj3 black tips, is that just for brine or straight LCC also?


----------



## Kubota 8540

69charger;2032157 said:


> So, if your brine is stronger than 23.3% it will actually freeze at a higher temp? I'm new to this and trying to learn, so I'm reading this now as a resource. At 23.3, what does it freeze at? And what if I do 10% LCC. Also I know you like the sj3 black tips, is that just for brine or straight LCC also?


23.3% is ideal, freezing point is -6F. At 26.5% salt brine will freeze at 32F. What is the freezing point of 90% brine/10% Lcc? Thats a good question, I dont know. Didnt freeze in my 3,000 gallon bulk tank when it was -35F days.

Both, Brine and Lcc, unless its an anti icing only situation then I might use fan type nozzles, but thats very seldom.


----------



## 69charger

*Brine*



Kubota 8540;2032162 said:


> 23.3% is ideal, freezing point is -6F. At 26.5% salt brine will freeze at 32F. What is the freezing point of 90% brine/10% Lcc? Thats a good question, I dont know. Didnt freeze in my 3,000 gallon bulk tank when it was -35F days.
> 
> Both, Brine and Lcc, unless its an anti icing only situation then I might use fan type nozzles, but thats very seldom.


Great info. Thank you. Hard to believe more isn't better.


----------



## 69charger

Kubota 8540;1603910 said:


> Warm wetter events, rock salt works better.
> 
> Dryer colder events, liquids work cheaper.
> 
> Why not set it up on a platform and simply switch between spreader or sprayer when need be.? Thats what I do. My sprayer wiring plugs into my spreader wiring hook up. All quich attach trailer style plugs.


That's what I'm gonna do. Last year to we my feet, I hooked up an a TV sprayer as a pre wet and sidewalk wand. And it worked well. This year I have a different truck. International 4300 with 12 ft bed. I think I can fit a 300 gallon tote based spray tank in front of my buyers 3000 spreader. Some calving, I'll be able to spray, pre wet , and have a sidewalk reel all in one truck. I also have another sprayer and another spreader for other trucks.


----------



## Kubota 8540

69charger;2032169 said:


> That's what I'm gonna do. Last year to we my feet, I hooked up an a TV sprayer as a pre wet and sidewalk wand. And it worked well. This year I have a different truck. International 4300 with 12 ft bed. I think I can fit a 300 gallon tote based spray tank in front of my buyers 3000 spreader. Some calving, I'll be able to spray, pre wet , and have a sidewalk reel all in one truck. I also have another sprayer and another spreader for other trucks.


I have my spray tank in front of my spreader and spray bar in front my spinner. I keep saying I am going to set it up so I can spray at the spinner, BUT, I havent done that. So I tried a work around. By spraying and very lightly spreading salt at the same time. The problem I have run into, is that the gas spreader spreads too much salt. I cant close the chain area off any closer than 1". If I slow the engine speed, it throws less salt, but also throws it less far.? I think an electric spreader would be ideal, they should have more flow and speed control. Also thinking of attaching a piece of rubber so I can close of the gate a little more.


----------



## 69charger

Kubota 8540;2032176 said:


> I have my spray tank in front of my spreader and spray bar in front my spinner. I keep saying I am going to set it up so I can spray at the spinner, BUT, I havent done that. So I tried a work around. By spraying and very lightly spreading salt at the same time. The problem I have run into, is that the gas spreader spreads too much salt. I cant close the chain area off any closer than 1". If I slow the engine speed, it throws less salt, but also throws it less far.? I think an electric spreader would be ideal, they should have more flow and speed control. Also thinking of attaching a piece of rubber so I can close of the gate a little more.


I have an electric spreader, so those functions are controlled without issue. I went to electric spreaders years ago. No starting issues, and very little moving parts. I have had great luck with them. I haven't done anything yet, but spent most if the day yesterday pricing and locating the parts I need to assemble the sprayer. I am also a distributor for LCC, so that helps drive my decision


----------



## Kubota 8540

69charger;2032177 said:


> I have an electric spreader, so those functions are controlled without issue. I went to electric spreaders years ago. No starting issues, and very little moving parts. I have had great luck with them. I haven't done anything yet, but spent most if the day yesterday pricing and locating the parts I need to assemble the sprayer. I am also a distributor for LCC, so that helps drive my decision


Where are you located?


----------



## 69charger

Kubota 8540;2032178 said:


> Where are you located?


Hermitage pa


----------



## Kubota 8540

Never had any issues with any of my gas v boxes except the Tecumseh powered ones.


----------



## 69charger

Kubota 8540;2032180 said:


> Never had any issues with any of my gas v boxes except the Tecumseh powered ones.


And that's what mine was, so maybe I wasn't fair to it. But still a lot of moving parts, and it was used when I got it. So, you know what lack of maintenance equals


----------



## Kubota 8540

Gas v boxes are all I have ever had. I have tried just about everything to keep them rust free. But the best I have ever used to keep them rust free and having a perfect season start up after sitting for 9 months was to spray everything with Fluid Film. No rust chunks spitting out, no oil slopping, no stuck chains, just like new.

I wonder if a free plug for Fluid Film = A FREE can?

I even spray a lot of my sprayer parts with it now.


----------



## terrapro

69charger;2032164 said:


> Great info. Thank you. Hard to believe more isn't better.


My understanding is it falls out of suspension


----------



## 69charger

Kubota 8540;2032186 said:


> Gas v boxes are all I have ever had. I have tried just about everything to keep them rust free. But the best I have ever used to keep them rust free and having a perfect season start up after sitting for 9 months was to spray everything with Fluid Film. No rust chunks spitting out, no oil slopping, no stuck chains, just like new.
> 
> I wonder if a free plug for Fluid Film = A FREE can?
> 
> I even spray a lot of my sprayer parts with it now.


I've been wanting to try that for 2 yrs. I'll have to try it


----------



## panduro

*Pls comment on very badly drawn "plan"*

Hey guys,
Winter comming soon(hopefully) 

So im gonna spend some cash getting another small toolcarrior ready for the fight.

I draw( yes i suck at Drawing by hand and even worse on computer LOL) my initial plan, but im noob so i need some advice and comments pls...
Tank for product
3 identical 12v 5gmp on demand pumps
Would i have an issue with backflow from one pump to the rest if i want to connect All pumps all to the same hose? 
1 x 60amp pump speed controller
Bought cheap on eBay but it should do just fine.

Spray bars and hose reels

Main(used for most work when i spray and snow remove at same time)
130cm wide spraypattern with 6 teejet sj3 grey05 nozzles mounted at 10" hight and aprox 9" appart.

These should do Well for most of my needs keeping me around 4 to 7 mph working speed, although i also do some faster spraying work at 7-10mph but that should be easy to optain with bigger tips on 3tripple nozzle holders.

Side sprayer
Wish for a 5-6 foot wide side sprayer, preff only at one side.
I would like to keep using single stream or sj3 tips, but Can i achive a an extra 6 foot without making my boom wider?
When i look at boomless tips, it appeaers to me that they are all meant to spray a wider pattern than my need is. Can i just angle Them more inwards or Will that complete ruing the uniformity of the pattern?
My ideal Workspeed isnt constant here either, but if its the only Way to get what i need then i suppose id go at around 6 mph.
How would u achive my goal?

Sprayhose around 45 foot needed.

So i like everybody Else dreams of staying inside and not leaving cab, so what electrical valves would i need and how to control them?
I know the Easyest solution would prob be to have a pump for the sprayer hose, 2 for The main bar and erhmm 2 for the side spray but damm lol, to Many pumps and to Many pump controllers.
If my options are all to expensive i guess ill have to go with manual valves.
I apologize for the long rant and hope that some of u guys Can enlighten me on some of my questions.

Best regards 
Mr Tipsy


----------



## panduro

Could someone tell me how to edit my post?
best regards
the computer idiot


----------



## kc2006

69charger;2032177 said:


> I have an electric spreader, so those functions are controlled without issue. I went to electric spreaders years ago. No starting issues, and very little moving parts. I have had great luck with them. I haven't done anything yet, but spent most if the day yesterday pricing and locating the parts I need to assemble the sprayer. I am also a distributor for LCC, so that helps drive my decision


What's your pricing on LCC? I'm near Youngstown.


----------



## dodgegmc1213

*testing the homemade spray bar*

this year we plan on getting into liquid salt brine mixed with ice bite. probably gonna make our f450 the liquid truck and use it as a pretreat. I had 2 12 volt pumps laying around both are 4.9 gpm and 60 psi I believe? also had some 1/2 pipe and fittings and used some of our sealcoat spray tips. this was just a test to see how it will spray, if it was enough volume or not. it seemed to spray ok with water but idk with deicer. the water started drying before I took a pic of the pattern on the ground but you get the idea. might have to do a few changes. what do you guys think? helpful tips? thanks


----------



## panduro

*nozzle bodies, meaning of abbreviation in shop texts*

i need help guys, i simply don't know what the abbreviations about inlet and outlet types mean..

english not my mother tongue 

mpt 
fdt
fm
npt

best regards

mr tipsy


----------



## Strictly Snow

panduro;2038882 said:


> i need help guys, i simply don't know what the abbreviations about inlet and outlet types mean..
> 
> english not my mother tongue
> 
> mpt
> fdt
> fm
> npt
> 
> best regards
> 
> mr tipsy


MPT = Male PipeThread
FDT = Fluid Density Test 
FM = Fluid Mechanics
NPT = National PipeThread

Now these are just guessing without context


----------



## MF 5455

Happy cool fall and start of winter to all my friends here at plowsite..

I have just recently finished my brine plant set up, which I started earlier in the summer.

As some may remember, I posted couple pictures of brine maker shortly after i purchased it. I bought a good used SS system from out of the USA, and the amusing thing about it, is that it was originally made here in Ontario, maybe 2 hours from my residence.

I made some changes to the plumbing side of things to suit my needs and the way I wanted it set up. It had some automation from new, but we took all that away, and made it just a manual, operator controlled system.

I have run it through couple tests by now, checking for leaks and the flow of water, etc.

I feel quite confident that it is ready to add salt and start the process of making brine. My hopes are to perhaps not only use it for my own business, but sell to others as they become interested.


----------



## MF 5455

I am posting couple more pictures of the new set up of our brine making system


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

*large tanks*

unable to use liquid again this year. and this may not be the place for it but I have 2 4200 gallon tanks for sale with valves and plumbing to fill. asking 2250.00 4000.00 new. thanks 330 801 6388. names chris.


----------



## underESTIMATED

bytheyardlandsc;2039121 said:


> unable to use liquid again this year. and this may not be the place for it but I have 2 4200 gallon tanks for sale with valves and plumbing to fill. asking 2250.00 4000.00 new. thanks 330 801 6388. names chris.


Give me a call.

In case Bryan doesnt get a hold of you first.

Thanks

Dave
330.808.5566


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;2039070 said:


> Happy cool fall and start of winter to all my friends here at plowsite..
> 
> I have just recently finished my brine plant set up, which I started earlier in the summer.
> 
> As some may remember, I posted couple pictures of brine maker shortly after i purchased it. I bought a good used SS system from out of the USA, and the amusing thing about it, is that it was originally made here in Ontario, maybe 2 hours from my residence.
> 
> I made some changes to the plumbing side of things to suit my needs and the way I wanted it set up. It had some automation from new, but we took all that away, and made it just a manual, operator controlled system.
> 
> I have run it through couple tests by now, checking for leaks and the flow of water, etc.
> 
> I feel quite confident that it is ready to add salt and start the process of making brine. My hopes are to perhaps not only use it for my own business, but sell to others as they become interested.


" It had some automation from new, but we took all that away, and made it just a manual, operator controlled system" I like when someone takes the fancy automation away and leaves plenty of room for operator error. :laughing:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;2039071 said:


> I am posting couple more pictures of the new set up of our brine making system


Looks real nice.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;2039898 said:


> " It had some automation from new, but we took all that away, and made it just a manual, operator controlled system" I like when someone takes the fancy automation away and leaves plenty of room for operator error. :laughing:


Hahaha... :salute:

It doesn't take much to get you to comment does it Jim Bo ))))

( I also put a seal in my pump backwards, but wasn't going to tell you )

Get some pictures on here my friend...we want to see your latest and greatest new inventions. You're the master of the salt brine world !!!

If this weather keeps up like it has been last 2-3 days, I will need to mount sprayer and salt spreader on 550 and get busy deicing.


----------



## panduro

Thanks for ur answer stricktly snow.

That looks like a good setup MF, just the roof makes me green of envy lol.

Best regards mr tipsy


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;2039912 said:


> Hahaha... :salute:
> 
> It doesn't take much to get you to comment does it Jim Bo ))))
> 
> ( I also put a seal in my pump backwards, but wasn't going to tell you )
> 
> Get some pictures on here my friend...we want to see your latest and greatest new inventions. You're the master of the salt brine world !!!
> 
> If this weather keeps up like it has been last 2-3 days, I will need to mount sprayer and salt spreader on 550 and get busy deicing.


Looks good. Just finished getting another contractor set up making brine and ready to spray in eastern Pennsylvania yesterday. Very pretty country out here.


----------



## bytheyardlandsc

Hello all. I have sold my large tanks and brine hauler truck. all I have left is a 925 tank with a 2 inch pump and 3 stage spray unit. I did have it in a one ton dump. but would suggest a bigger truck. tank straps pump and 2 booms . 1000.00 tank was 1300.00 by its self with straps . if interested call me 330 801 6388. name Chris. thanks


----------



## panduro

*What Will this do to pacer s performance?*

Hey guys,

I have a question i hope somebody Can give me some advice on...

Im thinking about buying a pacer s3" hydraulically driven pump, hope to use it both for Mixing and for spraying.

It Will be run by one of my toolcarriors rear hydraulic motores, specs says it outputs just over 30l/m(8gallon).

This link tells that the pacer wants between 9-9.5 gallon Oil flow for maximal performance.

http://www.plast-line.dk/shared/modules/files/getdatabasefile.asp?id=1107

What Will happen to the pumps performance running it with 8gal Oil flow?
Will it give me enoughf output for brinemixing in 2 tote pallet brinemaker erhmm very similar to kubota8540's almost Classic design(Classic as in Seen so Many times here .
Best regards mr tipsy


----------



## navyman

You will have reduced volume for mixing since it would be equivalent to running at slower engine speed. should work fine for spraying though since volumes are nowhere near the output of that pump.


----------



## panduro

Thanks for ur answer navyman,
yes thats what i thought, but just haven't got any idea weather i loose 10 or 50% of the rated output.

i talked to my mechanic and he says i can also use my front hyd(normally used for driving the rotary broom) when making brine, that puts out 60L/16G pr minut. so i guess i can just put in a oil flow regulator to get the wanted oil flow.

further more when looking at the graph shown(only took my brain 3 days lol) I've overlooked the fact that the 3" doesn't have any output over 37psi and i wish to spray between 15 and 60psi.
So it looks like i should choose the 2"s with 706 impeller, as that pump/impeller will take me to around 50psi.

best regards tipsy


----------



## 86 CJ

MF...Really nice set up you got there, looks like you spent some time and $$ and did it right. I am curious to what you paid for the used municipal Brine maker?

Craig and I just finished throwing together this build in our spare time, thanks to the help of Jim and some others on this site. We started out last year with the smaller 400g brine maker and got through the year, but now that we are growing in service we had to double our operation. Picked up a bigger truck, a used Skid Steer and now this larger build. She is not the best looking, but functions great, still need to finish the bulk funnel on top for our loader, but we ran two pallets of dirty bagged salt over the weekend to break her in and it looks like its gonna work out nice.


----------



## 86 CJ

Busy weekend at the shop, but finally making some progress on getting ready for winter. We loaded up 550 with some very clean salt from a buddy of mine near Baltimore and worked a day on making some Brine and starting some truck sprayer builds. We made 3900 gallons that is now stored in our tanks. We need to do one more round of that and it will be a great start to our winter supply. We still have some finishing do to the new larger brine maker, but its working as planned. Thanks again to everyone on here that have been a great resource in the past couple years to learn and grow to where we are now with liquids


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Very cool! Isn't it easier to hand carry 8 tons of bagged solar salt out of Lowe's, load it in your truck and then unload it, cut it open and empty each bag into the brine maker???  Just kidding. I wish we had access to bulk material in Montana. Now that you are all set up you can resale brine and make money when it isn't snowing.


----------



## grasskeepers

I brought a trailer like this in the spring. Any thoughts on how this would work for spraying brine.


----------



## Kubota 8540

grasskeepers;2059583 said:


> I brought a trailer like this in the spring. Any thoughts on how this would work for spraying brine.


As long as you size the tips according to the speed you are moving, it would be fine.


----------



## born2farm

Anyone have any recommendations on how many GPM would be needed on a sidewalk only sprayer? Looking to set up our sidewalk crew box trucks to spray brine.

Hoping to get away with 12v pump.

Also looking for reccomendations on hose reels and hand wands.


----------



## MahonLawnCare

1 gpm plenty


----------



## born2farm

MahonLawnCare;2060017 said:


> 1 gpm plenty


That'what i was coming up with doing the math compared to the rates we run on parking lots.

Wondering if we should run a fertilizer type wand or some other kind of nozzle.


----------



## MahonLawnCare

make it out of a tote thats what we did. super easy. 300 foot hose reel and your in business for minimal cost.


----------



## born2farm

MahonLawnCare;2060043 said:


> make it out of a tote thats what we did. super easy. 300 foot hose reel and your in business for minimal cost.


Exactly whay our plans are. What do you run for a nozzle?


----------



## MahonLawnCare

cheapo spray handle you buy at any farm store.


----------



## Wayne Volz

*trust your walking speed*

Train your applicators to trust a normal walking speed when making the application. It won't look wet at first and you have a tendency to slow way down and over apply the product.


----------



## rbljack

northern tools sells a weed sprayer capable of up to 5.5 gallons per minute, with a 26 gallon tote, and a boomless sprayer (2 fan nozzles) AND hand sprayer. The fan nozzles can get up to 40 feet wide, but for spraying parking lots, I could mount them closer to the ground using my receiver maybe, and try for an 8 foot pattern and to keep wind drift to a minimum. Would that set up work decent for spraying liquid on sidewalks and small parking lots? trying to figure out a way to keep my cost down, and use what I already have. I also have another 60 gallon tank I could use with the same set up to get more capacity. 

I would have to run the on/off switch onto a longer wiring harness, but other than that, Im curious to know how that set up would work as an initial set up. keep in mind im in texas, and we don't get a lot of snow, but ice is a concern for us from time to time. I have a few customers interested in some snow/ice removal, but I cant invest a lot into snow/ice removal because of the limited amounts of time it would be used. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Kubota 8540

rbljack;2060383 said:


> northern tools sells a weed sprayer capable of up to 5.5 gallons per minute, with a 26 gallon tote, and a boomless sprayer (2 fan nozzles) AND hand sprayer. The fan nozzles can get up to 40 feet wide, but for spraying parking lots, I could mount them closer to the ground using my receiver maybe, and try for an 8 foot pattern and to keep wind drift to a minimum. Would that set up work decent for spraying liquid on sidewalks and small parking lots? trying to figure out a way to keep my cost down, and use what I already have. I also have another 60 gallon tank I could use with the same set up to get more capacity.
> 
> I would have to run the on/off switch onto a longer wiring harness, but other than that, Im curious to know how that set up would work as an initial set up. keep in mind im in texas, and we don't get a lot of snow, but ice is a concern for us from time to time. I have a few customers interested in some snow/ice removal, but I cant invest a lot into snow/ice removal because of the limited amounts of time it would be used. Thanks in advance.


This is quite a pump. http://www.waterpumpsdirect.com/Honda-WX10-Water-Pump/p6298.html I set up a contractor in Pennsylvania with this pump, a simple plumbing kit and he hooked it to a 55 gallon plastic drum for his sidewalk crew. This pumps capacity is large enough to spray at 5-6 mph from a truck too. It can be multi tasked for any other pumping or spraying needs you might have. Works great to transfer liquids or spraying liquids.


----------



## sdaigh

Wouldn't that pump with the metal housing corrode or rust something terrible with a brine running through it? I thought you wanted a poly pump housing or something resistant to rust and corrosion?


----------



## Kubota 8540

sdaigh;2061740 said:


> Wouldn't that pump with the metal housing corrode or rust something terrible with a brine running through it? I thought you wanted a poly pump housing or something resistant to rust and corrosion?


He is in Texas, they dont get that much snow. An occasional use and a good cleaning it would last a long time.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

I am having a hell of a time with my sprayer. I am using a Pacer 2 inch pump with a Briggs and Stratton 950 engine. I have a 2 inch suction hose coming out of the tank, and then on the output side of the pump I neck down to a 1 inch before going into a Texas Industrial Remcor 1999A Boom shutoff valve that has a 1 inch inlet, 1 inch bypass, and a 3/4 inch boom output. I am wondering if this valve is a bad design and really kills my pressure. I have everything sealed well, teflon tape on all connections, no leaks anywhere. Even at full throttle the 1 inch hose that comes from the valve to the boom doesn't fill up. The brine just starts trickling in and eventually only fills up half of the hose going to the boom. When I use the SJ3 tipped boom I can't get enough pressure for all of the nozzles to activate. When I use my drilled 1 inch PVC boom I get minimal output. Any ideas? I am going to clean out my tank and see if I have too much sediment maybe plugging up the suction line in the tank. I have been using Magnesium Chloride that is used for dust control, so it has a lot of solids in it. Does anyone use a different type or brand of boom shutoff valve?


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Kubota 8540;2061888 said:


> He is in Texas, they dont get that much snow. An occasional use and a good cleaning it would last a long time.


The supplier we use for magnesium chloride uses all metal pumps for his tanks, trucks, everything. The are very corroded but they pump like crazy.


----------



## navyman

valleyviewlawns;2063532 said:


> The supplier we use for magnesium chloride uses all metal pumps for his tanks, trucks, everything. The are very corroded but they pump like crazy.


 I THINK WHEN METAL CORRODES IT SEALS ITSELF OFF FROM FURTHER CORROSION TO SOME EXTENT, if you chip it off it will begin again. of course eventually it will succumb.


----------



## Kubota 8540

valleyviewlawns;2063530 said:


> I am having a hell of a time with my sprayer. I am using a Pacer 2 inch pump with a Briggs and Stratton 950 engine. I have a 2 inch suction hose coming out of the tank, and then on the output side of the pump I neck down to a 1 inch before going into a Texas Industrial Remcor 1999A Boom shutoff valve that has a 1 inch inlet, 1 inch bypass, and a 3/4 inch boom output. I am wondering if this valve is a bad design and really kills my pressure. I have everything sealed well, teflon tape on all connections, no leaks anywhere. Even at full throttle the 1 inch hose that comes from the valve to the boom doesn't fill up. The brine just starts trickling in and eventually only fills up half of the hose going to the boom. When I use the SJ3 tipped boom I can't get enough pressure for all of the nozzles to activate. When I use my drilled 1 inch PVC boom I get minimal output. Any ideas? I am going to clean out my tank and see if I have too much sediment maybe plugging up the suction line in the tank. I have been using Magnesium Chloride that is used for dust control, so it has a lot of solids in it. Does anyone use a different type or brand of boom shutoff valve?


I would take it apart at the output side then start it up. What kind of flow there?


----------



## Kubota 8540

Maybe the poppet valve is not opening all the way?


----------



## Kubota 8540

a Texas Industrial Remcor 1999A is capable of 175 psi and 18 gpm


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Kubota 8540;2063844 said:


> a Texas Industrial Remcor 1999A is capable of 175 psi and 18 gpm


I think the difference is that this type of valve is like an irrigation valve with a diaphragm, not all of the flow goes to the boom, some of it is bypassed back to the tank. The TeeJet and Banjo Valves are ball valves. They are true on and off valves and very little pressure loss. I bought the Texas Industrial Remcor valve because I wanted to use a hose sprayer on sidewalks when I got done spraying the parking lots, and spot treat any really packed snow and ice spots where we have zero tolerance for slippery pavement. The bypass feature on that type of valve is why I bought it. I don't think I can use a ball valve with a hose sprayer. When I turn the valve on the hose is pressurized and blocked until I turn on the spray nozzle at the end of the hose. Thoughts?

I pulled the diaphragm apart on the 1999A and it was pretty stiff, probably gets worse at -2F when I really needed it. Do you use a 1x1x3/4 or is it bigger?


----------



## Kubota 8540

valleyviewlawns;2063850 said:


> I think the difference is that this type of valve is like an irrigation valve with a diaphragm, not all of the flow goes to the boom, some of it is bypassed back to the tank. The TeeJet and Banjo Valves are ball valves. They are true on and off valves and very little pressure loss. I bought the Texas Industrial Remcor valve because I wanted to use a hose sprayer on sidewalks when I got done spraying the parking lots, and spot treat any really packed snow and ice spots where we have zero tolerance for slippery pavement. The bypass feature on that type of valve is why I bought it. I don't think I can use a ball valve with a hose sprayer. When I turn the valve on the hose is pressurized and blocked until I turn on the spray nozzle at the end of the hose. Thoughts?
> 
> I pulled the diaphragm apart on the 1999A and it was pretty stiff, probably gets worse at -2F when I really needed it. Do you use a 1x1x3/4 or is it bigger?


Those style valvesw dont seem to work at real cold temps or high humidity. Thats why I use ball valves, like https://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.689.1019.2207.3905/3493 or https://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.689.2204.3893/6272


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Kubota 8540;2063871 said:


> Those style valvesw dont seem to work at real cold temps or high humidity. Thats why I use ball valves, like https://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.689.1019.2207.3905/3493 or https://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.689.2204.3893/6272


Thanks Kubota. That confirms my suspicions. Ordering a ball valve right now.

How should I plumb it for a hose connection?


----------



## Kubota 8540

valleyviewlawns;2063891 said:


> Thanks Kubota. That confirms my suspicions. Ordering a ball valve right now.
> 
> How should I plumb it for a hose connection?


Easiest way is to put a "Tee" in the return line from the valve to the tank. With a 2" pump you will have plenty of volume


----------



## spiviter

Just wanted to post a pic of what 9 years of salt and liquid brine has done under my plastic bed liner.


----------



## Kubota 8540

spiviter;2064797 said:


> Just wanted to post a pic of what 9 years of salt and liquid brine has done under my plastic bed liner.
> 
> View attachment 147728


Looks like time for a new plastic bedliner.....


----------



## navyman

spiviter;2064797 said:


> Just wanted to post a pic of what 9 years of salt and liquid brine has done under my plastic bed liner.
> 
> View attachment 147728


 Fuel tank only has one strap! Yikes! I think it's time for a flat bed.


----------



## spiviter

picked up a good used bed for $250 from a junk yard. Dumping flatbed is gonna be next when this one is done.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

*TeeJet 344 3 Way Shutoff Valves*

Do these require all three wires to be hooked up? One to constant power, one to switched power and one to ground? Does the constant 12V keep it on bypass, and the switched power to the other wire switch it to the boom? Or vice verse?


----------



## Kubota 8540

valleyviewlawns;2071278 said:


> Do these require all three wires to be hooked up? One to constant power, one to switched power and one to ground? Does the constant 12V keep it on bypass, and the switched power to the other wire switch it to the boom? Or vice verse?


Yes,One to constant power, one to switched power and one to ground.

Yes,the constant 12V keeps it on bypass, and the switched power to the other wire switch it to the boom.


----------



## dodgegmc1213

got our tank and system all made up


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Kubota 8540;2071304 said:


> Yes,One to constant power, one to switched power and one to ground.
> 
> Yes,the constant 12V keeps it on bypass, and the switched power to the other wire switch it to the boom.


Holy Schnitzel. That thing puts out some liquid now! I wish I would have bought the TeeJet valve to begin with. Went cheap and paid for it!


----------



## Kubota 8540

valleyviewlawns;2077162 said:


> Holy Schnitzel. That thing puts out some liquid now! I wish I would have bought the TeeJet valve to begin with. Went cheap and paid for it!


I have seen a lot of these kind of situations over the years. Also have seen high priced parts not work as well as the less expensive parts. I have seen complaints about liquids not working when it was someone not using the right tip size or their plumbing and hoses were not the right size.

BUT, the Teejet valves for the money are worth it. They just seem to always work when you need them to.


----------



## STARSHIP

I just want to say a quick thank you to everyone (and especially Kubota for starting and heavily contributing) for sharing, questioning, answering, posting of pictures, etc. in this thread. We are pretty much bulk salt and treating/pre-wet only, but plan to incorporate liquids. Thanks to everyone's input, there is so much information found here.


----------



## navyman

STARSHIP;2077843 said:


> I just want to say a quick thank you to everyone (and especially Kubota for starting and heavily contributing) for sharing, questioning, answering, posting of pictures, etc. in this thread. We are pretty much bulk salt and treating/pre-wet only, but plan to incorporate liquids. Thanks to everyone's input, there is so much information found here.


 I agree, and would also like to thank those on this site who actually want to help. Kubota has probably done the most and earned the respect of many by doing so, there are others as well... Happy Holidays! Dan.


----------



## 86 CJ

Kubota 8540;2077789 said:


> I have seen a lot of these kind of situations over the years. Also have seen high priced parts not work as well as the less expensive parts. I have seen complaints about liquids not working when it was someone not using the right tip size or their plumbing and hoses were not the right size.
> 
> BUT, the Teejet valves for the money are worth it. They just seem to always work when you need them to.


Agree 100% We have thanked Jim and others before on the site after a build. I can say that with his help and others on the site Craig and I went from testing and tinkering with liquids/sprayers/brine makers, etc like many here are doing to creating a nice Liquid de-icing business local now and helping others to get into sprayers and using liquids on there accounts now. We are way busier than we thought we would be a year ago and have not even had 1 event here(its like 60 today  ) Thumbs UpThumbs Up to all of you for handing down the knowledge for us to build off of.


----------



## MF 5455

Yes sir !!

Many thanks to Mr Jim for helping me get started in the brine business. I feel like a lone wolf up here in Ontario. No one else in the city of 125,000 sprays like I do. A few wet their salt with some expensive big name product, but no brine spraying...

I have successfully put together 2 different systems for my self in past 4 years. Now I have an all-in-one system in my truck, (will post pics later), which I am very excited about. Also, in 2015, we put together a very nice brine making system (purchased used), and it works very well.

Merry Christmas to all you contractors. Happy New Year as well.


----------



## mpriester

Agreed, MANY THANKS to Kubota and everyone else that helped me build my pre wet and understand the brine process.


----------



## MF 5455

Hi everyone....

Posting few pictures of a sprayer set up i built for a young man here who has become quite interested in the brine application.

I used a 5 hp Briggs engine mounted with a 2" Pacer pump.
1 Banjo 1" electric valve
1 6' spray bar with 5-1 gpm streamer nozzles
1-1" Banjo manual valve reduced to 1/2" for sidewalk hose
1- 200 gallon tote on skid
PVC sch 80 2" threaded plumbing for supply and suction, some glued fittings.
1 weather proof box with toggle switch and wiring to control electric valve.

As you can see in the one picture, the spray bar being tested has a really nice flow coming from it.


----------



## MF 5455

I am posting couple pictures of my own "All-in-one " sprayer/v-box spreader set up on my F 550 truck.

I made some different arrangements this year, so we could have 1 truck do both spraying and or salting.

I purchased an electric 7' Fisher Steel Caster in SS version for my set up.
I rearranged my 600 gallon brine tank from sitting long way in bed to cross ways and up to front of box. I then made changes to the pump and plumbing set up to make room for other attachments.
I also have my 100 gallon saddle tank installed for fueling other equipment. 
Everything fits, with not much vacant space left.
The pump I use is a Hypro type, and is run by central hydraulics from the truck.
The spray bar has 10 horizontal nozzle bodies with 1 gpm barb fittings.
The side arms each have 6 nozzle bodies, of which I use only 4 each.

This set up has been a dream for me for a long time. Kubota and I have had lengthy conversations on how to accomplish this. He has given some very good thoughts and encouraged me to do it. Thank you Kubota !!!


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;2079215 said:


> I am posting couple pictures of my own "All-in-one " sprayer/v-box spreader set up on my F 550 truck.
> 
> I made some different arrangements this year, so we could have 1 truck do both spraying and or salting.
> 
> I purchased an electric 7' Fisher Steel Caster in SS version for my set up.
> I rearranged my 600 gallon brine tank from sitting long way in bed to cross ways and up to front of box. I then made changes to the pump and plumbing set up to make room for other attachments.
> I also have my 100 gallon saddle tank installed for fueling other equipment.
> Everything fits, with not much vacant space left.
> The pump I use is a Hypro type, and is run by central hydraulics from the truck.
> The spray bar has 10 horizontal nozzle bodies with 1 gpm barb fittings.
> The side arms each have 6 nozzle bodies, of which I use only 4 each.
> 
> This set up has been a dream for me for a long time. Kubota and I have had lengthy conversations on how to accomplish this. He has given some very good thoughts and encouraged me to do it. Thank you Kubota !!!


I thought we agreed that when I sent you the "Designed by Kubota 8540" Sticker, you were going to put that on that shiny new system?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;2080131 said:


> I thought we agreed that when I sent you the "Designed by Kubota 8540" Sticker, you were going to put that on that shiny new system?


Ooooops !!!

The sticker must still be at " Customs " Lol

I will keep watching for it in the mail box ussmileyflagtymusic


----------



## Kubota 8540

Detained by customs as "pure propaganda"


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;2080144 said:


> Detained by customs as "pure propaganda"


Hahaha I'm thinking on retracting all the nice things I've said on your behalf....

Don't you have a sprayer to build ?, or some parking lots
that need to be sprayed ? Something ????


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;2080193 said:


> Hahaha I'm thinking on retracting all the nice things I've said on your behalf....
> 
> Don't you have a sprayer to build ?, or some parking lots
> that need to be sprayed ? Something ????


55F and VERY windy, not going to get much snow tonight. Actually have flood and wind advisory in effect.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455 Have you had the chance to try out the spreader yet?


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;2080222 said:


> MF 5455 Have you had the chance to try out the spreader yet?


HECK NO !!!

We have only had flurries so far this year.
Tomorrow, Thursday, going to be 58 degrees... what's going on ?
Christmas day here...46 degrees.

I have 2,500 gallons of brine from last year, left over in the big tank.
Haven't even made a full batch yet this winter.

Doesn't appear to be anything major until second week of Jan. Winter is half over by then.

Last year we plowed on Nov. 17, and didn't quit until middle of March. We were out 38 times total.

I sprayed ONCE so far this snow season.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Well I guess I could always make a 1500 gallon batch of brine tomorrow? Better than waiting until its cold and need it I guess.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;2080240 said:


> Well I guess I could always make a 1500 gallon batch of brine tomorrow? Better than waiting until its cold and need it I guess.


Tomorrow, you say ???

tTomorrow is Christmas eve.

Time for you to go shopping isn't it ? Lol.

Do you have the turkey hanging up, and feathers off it yet ?

Tooooo warm for brine making... more fun when it's real cold..

Weatherman says we may get 3"-5" of the wet heavy stuff next Tuesday. Then it's suppose to go back up to low 40's.

Not much use for new Steel Caster with temps in the 40's. LOL


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota...

Check your email from...tymusic

I replied about the nozzles


----------



## valleyviewlawns

We're going to have to kick our game up a little!

http://www.gemsglobalsystems.com/brine-combo-unit.html


----------



## valleyviewlawns




----------



## spyda

MF 5455;2079193 said:


> Hi everyone....
> 
> Posting few pictures of a sprayer set up i built for a young man here who has become quite interested in the brine application.
> 
> I used a 5 hp Briggs engine mounted with a 2" Pacer pump.
> 1 Banjo 1" electric valve
> 1 6' spray bar with 5-1 gpm streamer nozzles
> 1-1" Banjo manual valve reduced to 1/2" for sidewalk hose
> 1- 200 gallon tote on skid
> PVC sch 80 2" threaded plumbing for supply and suction, some glued fittings.
> 1 weather proof box with toggle switch and wiring to control electric valve.
> 
> As you can see in the one picture, the spray bar being tested has a really nice flow coming from it.


 Hey! That setup is Really nice and convenient. I'm actually working on this exact same setup but with a bigger boom probably 8 ft on 3/4 GMC or Fords F250/F350 whichever obtained first...  In any event, how much do you have here in this setup? The only thing i didn't have included was the 1" manual banjo valve for the sidewalk hose (Which I want too). I was going to use the exact same motor and valves as I see those work best... I'm doing factory parking lots and few sidewalks. Thanks for the pictures and Happy Holidays.

We haven't had any snow to plow in Grand Rapids, Michigan yet! Nor salt. But #ItsComing!


----------



## Kubota 8540

valleyviewlawns;2080314 said:


> We're going to have to kick our game up a little!
> 
> http://www.gemsglobalsystems.com/brine-combo-unit.html


Having made a little bit of brine before, I dont think I would use anything but 99.8% solar salt to make brine in it. It doesnt look like cleaning it out would be too easy? Its hard enough cleaning out an open top tote.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;2080265 said:


> Tomorrow, you say ???
> 
> tTomorrow is Christmas eve.
> 
> Time for you to go shopping isn't it ? Lol.
> 
> Do you have the turkey hanging up, and feathers off it yet ?
> 
> Tooooo warm for brine making... more fun when it's real cold..
> 
> Weatherman says we may get 3"-5" of the wet heavy stuff next Tuesday. Then it's suppose to go back up to low 40's.
> 
> Not much use for new Steel Caster with temps in the 40's. LOL


No, I still have time.....lol. Always looking for deals. 

Yes, frozen water hoses and fingers are always more challenging than 50 degree temps. I guess I should wait a little longer.


----------



## MF 5455

To all my friends on thid forum...

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !!

We wish all of you safe travels if you are doing such, and enjoy special times with those you love.

Get ready for lots of snow after Christmas !!! 

tymusic


----------



## spyda

Same to you and yours all on the form and not have a blessed happy holidays


----------



## Kubota 8540

No brine making today. 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone.


----------



## c.debold

Well, after lots of reading in this thread I made my first batch of brine in a small scale. Came out close, added a bit more salt and reached 23%. So now, I am going to move forward to build the Kubota IBC tank version of brine makers. I have two totes ready to go. I will be going to get the pump and assorted fittings from local ag store. A question I have is; it appears there is a lot of pics reflecting brine makers and sprayers being built on wood type pallets / skids. Is this just for ease of moving or is there another underlying purpose?

My next aspect will be to build the sprayer, I have another tote and wanted to use the same pump? Any thoughts or concerns I should look for?


----------



## MF 5455

c.debold;2082450 said:


> Well, after lots of reading in this thread I made my first batch of brine in a small scale. Came out close, added a bit more salt and reached 23%. So now, I am going to move forward to build the Kubota IBC tank version of brine makers. I have two totes ready to go. I will be going to get the pump and assorted fittings from local ag store. A question I have is; it appears there is a lot of pics reflecting brine makers and sprayers being built on wood type pallets / skids. Is this just for ease of moving or is there another underlying purpose?
> 
> My next aspect will be to build the sprayer, I have another tote and wanted to use the same pump? Any thoughts or concerns I should look for?


Hi C.

IMHO, I use a skid for ease of moving, unloading and also to attach the pump, plumbing, tank to. If you do some research on the brine sprayers purchased from the big boys, and the very large prices, most of those are built on self loading/unloading steel or galvanized steel frames. These units have folding legs in the front, usually with a type of wheel or roller to help install into truck bed. The rear legs are usually telescopic so that they can be lifted up and locked. This type usually has a spray bar permanently attached to them. Other types have the rear legs which will fold up 180 degrees to be out of the way.

Some of us don't have the extra monies to spend on this nice setup, so we build our own with shared knowledge, or plans of our own. However, there are some very nice units out there being used, which were built on a good sturdy pallet type frame. Kubota has posted some pics. of a couple he built which were good examples. Wood is cheaper then steel, no welding, and could be dismantled if you need changes.

I started out using the double IBC totes for making my brine. They are built with pockets from factory for fork lifts to move them. The lower tote or the one sitting on floor was used as the brine maker or where the salt is added. The second tote, was set on a pallet so that the overflow tubes coming out of the side close to top would be able to spill into the lower tote. I beleieve Kubota came up with this idea. (at least that's where i first found them). Have to be careful, in case someone else started using them first, and they don't get the honors...:salute:

I think pretty much all the manufactured brine makers you can find on line have pockets of some sort, or they sit on a welded/molded frame, so they can be lifted/moved with loader or fork truck.

I posted couple pics of my brine maker being moved with skid steer, and also a sprayer on a pallet.

Jim


----------



## c.debold

MF 5455,

Thanks for the info. I will get my brine maker set up and then start on the sprayer. I know I will have some other questions coming.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

c.debold;2082450 said:


> Well, after lots of reading in this thread I made my first batch of brine in a small scale. Came out close, added a bit more salt and reached 23%. So now, I am going to move forward to build the Kubota IBC tank version of brine makers. I have two totes ready to go. I will be going to get the pump and assorted fittings from local ag store. A question I have is; it appears there is a lot of pics reflecting brine makers and sprayers being built on wood type pallets / skids. Is this just for ease of moving or is there another underlying purpose?
> 
> My next aspect will be to build the sprayer, I have another tote and wanted to use the same pump? Any thoughts or concerns I should look for?


The first year I used the sprayer pump mounted in my truck for mixing in the totes. I just backed up close to the totes and rearranged the hoses. This year i bought a second pump. I just use pallets to keep eveything out of the dirt. Free wood .


----------



## dodgegmc1213

tried our set up with the deicer today.


----------



## valleyviewlawns

Has anybody tried nozzles that are more of a broadcast type instead of the SJ3 stream tips? I would like to try a broadcast type nozzle on the dry light stuff, 1/2" and less. Just wondering what you folks have had for success?


----------



## MF 5455

valleyviewlawns;2083462 said:


> Has anybody tried nozzles that are more of a broadcast type instead of the SJ3 stream tips? I would like to try a broadcast type nozzle on the dry light stuff, 1/2" and less. Just wondering what you folks have had for success?


Hi Valleyview

I tried the broadcast, or I like to call them "fan spray nozzles", when I was using my 3 point hitch sprayer. They worked ok so long as you had a good clean batch of brine, and kept if filtered. I did find however, that the spray didn't soak into the snow and go through to the asphalt.

I believe you will find the fan spray type works well for anti icing, (before the storm) and or dust control. If it's windy when you use them, there is also overspray all over the vehicle, and some of it never gets to the pavement.

IMHO, you won't go wrong using the streamer nozzles. They are direct to the ground, and I have cut through 2" of hard pack when I turned up the pressure. Way less over spray, and small particles of debris can pass through them with no clogs.

I personally use the brass type nozzle for my sprayer. They also come in poly.
You can buy them with different size openings as well. The brass ones are maintenance free, and can be used many years.

Jim tymusic


----------



## MF 5455

valleyviewlawns;2083462 said:


> Has anybody tried nozzles that are more of a broadcast type instead of the SJ3 stream tips? I would like to try a broadcast type nozzle on the dry light stuff, 1/2" and less. Just wondering what you folks have had for success?


HI Valleyview

I didn't realize you were from Montana until after I reread your post....

I would think in Montana the humidity is quite low, compared to here where it can be 85-100% with a storm. Today, the humidity was down to 49%, and a cod north wind. Temp was 15 degrees fah.

You could probably use a leaf blower for your sidewalks, and a broom to sweep the lots. LOL

Your salt consumption there is probably much less than here. I tend to avoid spraying when temps are less than 20 degrees and there is low humidity. The snow tends to blow away, or dissipates with the cold temps, and the dry air. Sometimes, spraying can cause the snow to build up some, because we have created a surface that will melt the first 1/2-1".

I have personally sprayed a portion of sidewalk when it is cold and dry. When it snowed, the portion I sprayed was covered in snow. The portion not sprayed was bare. I'm talking only 2" storm. And the wind had blown with it.

We don't have low humidity storms often. Temps usually moderate to above 20-25 degrees fah. before or during the storm. Then it may go well below zero after the cloud cover lifts.

Temperature and humidity is something we must always check on. One of my BIGGEST concerns is NO slip and fall accidents. Insurance rates here for snow removal liability have doubled this year. It seems as though all the insurance companies don't want to talk to us about this part of our livelihood.

I try to be as vigilant as possible with my lots, and keep the ice and snow clear. I have had excellent results so far with the brine. This will be my 5th year for spraying. Kubota was instrumental in getting me started. He also would have good instructions for your question.

tymusic


----------



## Lugnut

Anybody have any experience with banjo electric valves? Bought sprayer with ev3100 valve and it seems to be out of adjustment as it sprays in both on and off positions but the spray momentarily stops while it's turning. Wondering if anyone has experienced this and knows of a simple fix before I take it apart or wait until Monday to call manufacturer


----------



## terrapro

Lugnut;2086637 said:


> Anybody have any experience with banjo electric valves? Bought sprayer with ev3100 valve and it seems to be out of adjustment as it sprays in both on and off positions but the spray momentarily stops while it's turning. Wondering if anyone has experienced this and knows of a simple fix before I take it apart or wait until Monday to call manufacturer


This one?
Make sure you have enough power going to the switch and the ground is good. Make sure the coil pack isn't cracked also, I have cracked them by leaving them on over night with an empty tank so I didn't notice and it overheated...

http://agrimart.net/3-wire-3-4-second-electric-on-off-valve-motor-ev3100/


----------



## Kubota 8540

Lugnut;2086637 said:


> Anybody have any experience with banjo electric valves? Bought sprayer with ev3100 valve and it seems to be out of adjustment as it sprays in both on and off positions but the spray momentarily stops while it's turning. Wondering if anyone has experienced this and knows of a simple fix before I take it apart or wait until Monday to call manufacturer


I cant quite remember if the Banjo is the exact same as the TeeJet valves, but yes they can get out of sync. The coil pack sets on a hexagonal shaft and the valve stem and ball need to be in the right position when the coil pack sets down over the shaft.


----------



## Lugnut

Kubota 8540;2086907 said:


> I cant quite remember if the Banjo is the exact same as the TeeJet valves, but yes they can get out of sync. The coil pack sets on a hexagonal shaft and the valve stem and ball need to be in the right position when the coil pack sets down over the shaft.


That's exactly the problem however even after properly aligning it the valve continues to stop short of fully closing I'll call manufacturer Monday I'm thinking something is malfunctioning and I don't want to mess with something new too much. Thanks for replies guys


----------



## valleyviewlawns

MF 5455;2083705 said:


> HI Valleyview
> 
> I didn't realize you were from Montana until after I reread your post....
> 
> I would think in Montana the humidity is quite low, compared to here where it can be 85-100% with a storm. Today, the humidity was down to 49%, and a cod north wind. Temp was 15 degrees fah.
> 
> You could probably use a leaf blower for your sidewalks, and a broom to sweep the lots. LOL
> 
> Your salt consumption there is probably much less than here. I tend to avoid spraying when temps are less than 20 degrees and there is low humidity. The snow tends to blow away, or dissipates with the cold temps, and the dry air. Sometimes, spraying can cause the snow to build up some, because we have created a surface that will melt the first 1/2-1".
> 
> I have personally sprayed a portion of sidewalk when it is cold and dry. When it snowed, the portion I sprayed was covered in snow. The portion not sprayed was bare. I'm talking only 2" storm. And the wind had blown with it.
> 
> We don't have low humidity storms often. Temps usually moderate to above 20-25 degrees fah. before or during the storm. Then it may go well below zero after the cloud cover lifts.
> 
> Temperature and humidity is something we must always check on. One of my BIGGEST concerns is NO slip and fall accidents. Insurance rates here for snow removal liability have doubled this year. It seems as though all the insurance companies don't want to talk to us about this part of our livelihood.
> 
> I try to be as vigilant as possible with my lots, and keep the ice and snow clear. I have had excellent results so far with the brine. This will be my 5th year for spraying. Kubota was instrumental in getting me started. He also would have good instructions for your question.
> 
> tymusic


We do use backpack blowers on occasion, but our weather and conditions change so fast that it is rare that we can get away with it. Ive only done it once this year.


----------



## GrowingSeasons

new spray system for this year 750 gal gps'd


----------



## MF 5455

Growing Seasons

Nice looking set up you have going there. I like the aluminum flatbed too !!

Since the set up is gps'd, I presume you are spraying streets and roadways ?

I use to live north of Pittsburgh, outside of Meadville, which was south of Erie about 45 mins.

I would like to see more pics, once you have spray bar complete, and maybe with it spraying...

What type of nozzles and tips do you plan to use ?

Do you make your own brine, or buy it somewhere ?

Jim tymusic


----------



## GrowingSeasons

yes we have a contract to maintain 50 lane miles of road way plowing, salting, and pre treating. i will post pics of the bar but it has fan, jet, and 3 way jet all on it and u just rotate the one you want to run in the downward position and it sprays that nozzle. also has right and left fans to spray about 3 lanes at once. we are not making brine this year just didn't have time to get it set up, we have (3) 3000 gallon upright tanks plumped to a stainless pump to fill.


----------



## MF 5455

GrowingSeasons;2093512 said:


> yes we have a contract to maintain 50 lane miles of road way plowing, salting, and pre treating. i will post pics of the bar but it has fan, jet, and 3 way jet all on it and u just rotate the one you want to run in the downward position and it sprays that nozzle. also has right and left fans to spray about 3 lanes at once. we are not making brine this year just didn't have time to get it set up, we have (3) 3000 gallon upright tanks plumped to a stainless pump to fill.


Nice How much does the brine cost per gallon in your area ?
Is it straight salt brine, or is the liquid a mixture of other chemicals ?

Did you consider running the system with hydraulics right from the truck trans., or engine mounted pump ?

Seems if you are spraying 50 miles of roadway, you will need couple of gas cans with you...lol.

Are you setting up the gallons per mile, or is that pre determined by whomever you work for ? What is the rate (g/per/mile) you will be spraying and will that be determined by a set speed for initial set up ?

Jimtymusic


----------



## newage

kubota 
can you help me build my sprayer set up ?? i am looking at this pump as it is electric star(12v) https://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/1154
i will be useing at 350 gallon tank and this remote to start motor and controle valves (2)
http://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Performance-Lighting-PL-SW29-Wireless/dp/B000BRJF62/ref=cm_wl_huc_item

down below are a fer questios i could use help on my biggest problem is how to build a spray bar as in what to use
size of bar and if pvc is good enough i want a 80" bar is a 1" pvc pipe ok or should it be fatter or smaller

what psi should it be ran at and what is you gallon per acres as in 100 gallons cover 2 acres. i have 3 condo units we plow and each lot is about 1-1.4 acres. i was trying to figure how far a 350 gallon sprayer will last so i can figure out what i need to charge and how often i will need to refill. we also have 75 driveways some witch are long and steep. i would like to ditch all sanders and go strictly liquid b4 and after. i also could use help building a spray bar as what nosels to use and how to do it. i don't mind paying for the info i know nothing is for free in this world. thank you for any help 
kyle
newage landscaping and tree


----------



## Kubota 8540

newage;2100439 said:


> kubota
> can you help me build my sprayer set up ?? i am looking at this pump as it is electric star(12v) https://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/1154
> i will be useing at 350 gallon tank and this remote to start motor and controle valves (2)
> http://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Performance-Lighting-PL-SW29-Wireless/dp/B000BRJF62/ref=cm_wl_huc_item
> 
> down below are a fer questios i could use help on my biggest problem is how to build a spray bar as in what to use
> size of bar and if pvc is good enough i want a 80" bar is a 1" pvc pipe ok or should it be fatter or smaller
> 
> what psi should it be ran at and what is you gallon per acres as in 100 gallons cover 2 acres. i have 3 condo units we plow and each lot is about 1-1.4 acres. i was trying to figure how far a 350 gallon sprayer will last so i can figure out what i need to charge and how often i will need to refill. we also have 75 driveways some witch are long and steep. i would like to ditch all sanders and go strictly liquid b4 and after. i also could use help building a spray bar as what nosels to use and how to do it. i don't mind paying for the info i know nothing is for free in this world. thank you for any help
> kyle
> newage landscaping and tree


Pvc is nice as it wont rust or corrode, but you will need full length steel support for it so it doesnt crack/break from vibration. 1" anything will be fine.

With these style pumps, run them at any psi you get out of them. Usually its somewhere between 20-45 psi, either is fine.

I have used as little as 40 gpa and as much as 120 gpa. Depends on the type of snow your trying to melt, and the surface texture of the pavement. On average I say I apply 100 gpa.

I try to use liquid as much as possible, but there are times when only rock salt or sand will work best. I would and have kept my spreader and always will.

Well, your in luck. This info is free.

Dont COUNT on the wireless. Make sure you have a hard wired option. It might be a lot less headaches. I have tried the wireless before. Mine is hard wired and so are every one I build and sell. When I find and try a DEPENDABLE / affordable wireless controller, you will see me preaching about it.

I like these: https://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.811.812.2199/9932
OR: https://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.811.1782.4177/8187


----------



## Kubota 8540

GrowingSeasons;2093053 said:


> new spray system for this year 750 gal gps'd


Very nice set up, love the flatbed TOOO.


----------



## dodgegmc1213

we did away with our 2 12v pumps, 1 died and the other sounds weak. so we rebuilt a spray bar out of 3/4" pvc pipe and drilled 1/8" holes every 2", bought an electric ball valve and just gonna have it gravity feed. we tried it a few times before we got the valve and it comes out a lot better then our original plan, after a few minutes of it spraying it, it all faded in and covered nicely. gonna post a video, im sure with more liquid in the tank it would come out better but still was good.


----------



## GrowingSeasons

MF 5455;2093532 said:


> Nice How much does the brine cost per gallon in your area ?
> Is it straight salt brine, or is the liquid a mixture of other chemicals ?
> 
> Did you consider running the system with hydraulics right from the truck trans., or engine mounted pump ?
> 
> Seems if you are spraying 50 miles of roadway, you will need couple of gas cans with you...lol.
> 
> Are you setting up the gallons per mile, or is that pre determined by whomever you work for ? What is the rate (g/per/mile) you will be spraying and will that be determined by a set speed for initial set up ?
> 
> Jimtymusic


we are running a salt brine calcium blend and its being delivered for about 55 cents a gallon.

Believe it or not one tank gets the job done!

i was up in the air about electric vs hydro vs gas engine and i went with gas because its i can move the unit to another truck easily if the truck were to go down.

the gallon/mile rate is up to me. I'm running 40 gal/ lane mile right now and its working well. my unit is gps'd to automatically apply that rate at whatever speed i drive but alerts the driver when they are going to fast. with two booms going i can do about 18mph or about 25 with one.


----------



## 86 CJ

dodgegmc1213;2100536 said:


> we did away with our 2 12v pumps, 1 died and the other sounds weak. so we rebuilt a spray bar out of 3/4" pvc pipe and drilled 1/8" holes every 2", bought an electric ball valve and just gonna have it gravity feed. we tried it a few times before we got the valve and it comes out a lot better then our original plan, after a few minutes of it spraying it, it all faded in and covered nicely. gonna post a video, im sure with more liquid in the tank it would come out better but still was good.


Great work, glad to see the simple ingenuity in your build, if it works, use what you know. The only reason we add gas pumps to our builds is for de-icing pressure to get into the hard pack a bit more, but we actually just fit one of our trucks up the same way just for an extra pre-treating truck


----------



## dodgegmc1213

86 CJ;2110082 said:


> Great work, glad to see the simple ingenuity in your build, if it works, use what you know. The only reason we add gas pumps to our builds is for de-icing pressure to get into the hard pack a bit more, but we actually just fit one of our trucks up the same way just for an extra pre-treating truck


thanks, a gas pump would be nice so we can go faster and also spray further past the truck but it gets the job done. I just hope its enough for de-icing since the trucks with the salters will be at there own sites. next year I plan on setting up some type of system on my truck with my salter so I can have both applications.


----------



## MF 5455

I built this set up for my own use.

600 gallon tank, Hypro hydraulic driven pump, 3 electric valves, spray bar and 2 side wings. 7' Fisher Steel Caster S.S. electric drive spreader. Can open chute at rear, and push buttons on spreader (at rear) to fill a sidewalk spreader, etc.

This system works well for me. I use it for anti-icing, de-icing, with the brine and plain rock salt. (no sand for last 2 years).

I usually put 400 gallons in tank, about 1-1/2 yards salt, and go face the elements. The salt normally lasts me 2-3 storms, and brine usually one storm.

I am spraying/de-icing/anti-icing, approximately 15 acres of parking lots.

It is not perfect by any means, but it is what I wanted for a long time. tymusic


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;2110552 said:


> I built this set up for my own use.
> 
> 600 gallon tank, Hypro hydraulic driven pump, 3 electric valves, spray bar and 2 side wings. 7' Fisher Steel Caster S.S. electric drive spreader. Can open chute at rear, and push buttons on spreader (at rear) to fill a sidewalk spreader, etc.
> 
> This system works well for me. I use it for anti-icing, de-icing, with the brine and plain rock salt. (no sand for last 2 years).
> 
> I usually put 400 gallons in tank, about 1-1/2 yards salt, and go face the elements. The salt normally lasts me 2-3 storms, and brine usually one storm.
> 
> I am spraying/de-icing/anti-icing, approximately 15 acres of parking lots.
> 
> It is not perfect by any means, but it is what I wanted for a long time. tymusic


NOT PERFECT????? Now what are you wanting to change????? LOL


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;2110934 said:


> NOT PERFECT????? Now what are you wanting to change????? LOL


Hahaha Nothing really, I guess. The system works very well. I am grateful for you and others who have given advice and thoughts on what they built and their success stories.

Well...let's see, I could change....

tymusic


----------



## snowish10

Looking to make a sidewalk sprayer, Nothing fancy or expensive- What are good brands for sprayers under $80 for a 2 gpm 12v pump?? I have found northstar or shurflo so far


----------



## Kubota 8540

snowish10;2111535 said:


> Looking to make a sidewalk sprayer, Nothing fancy or expensive- What are good brands for sprayers under $80 for a 2 gpm 12v pump?? I have found northstar or shurflo so far


The biggest thing with electric pumps is the duty cycle. I think most are run for 10 minutes shut off for ten minutes. Unless you find one that is rated as continuous duty.

Here is a continuous duty one.... http://www.smallpumpstore.com/-12/S...OLTBR2088--5030-PUMPS-7176/2088-514-500-26106

I have seen them completely melted down, where the electric portion of the housings were melted and exposed.


----------



## bsrservices1

Ive built my sprayer setup now i need to build a boom. What size or style are nozzles are working the best?


----------



## VS Innovation

There are a lot of great posts here! I would love to answer all of your questions and I see that some already have.
Let me give you some information about myself and our company.
We have been in the snow removal business for almost ten years now. The last four years we have been using nothing but liquid for pre and post treatment of our accounts. The difference is night and day between granular products and liquid. It is so noticeable that we have doubled our size the last two just from customers wanting the liquid de-icing service.
We have built every sprayer and brine maker we have used. We have learned a tremendous amount by doing so. Our company now manufactures these sprayers and brine makers and are available for sale. All of our products are field tested and personally used each storm. On any given storm we spray anywhere from 1500 to 4000 gallons of brine. Our biggest sprayer that we use is 2700 gallons and is completely gps controlled. This allows us to save money and accurately apply the correct amount of brine simply by changing a number on a screen! Every sprayer model we offer is capable of the gps set up. We design our sprayers to be very affordable and reliable. I would gladly post pictures if anyone is interested.
I read a lot of confusion about pumps, tips, electronic valves and so on. We have dealt with all of these questions many times over and I would be glad to give advice to anyone who is looking to get into liquid. Feel free to message me anytime, I will do my best to check back to these threads but I am very new to this website.
Thanks guys


----------



## VS Innovation

bsrservices1;2113659 said:


> Ive built my sprayer setup now i need to build a boom. What size or style are nozzles are working the best?


Feel free to message me. My company manufactures sprayers and we personally use our product each storm. I would just need to know a few things before I can give you the best advice. What size pump you are running? How fast you would like to spray? Any other information about your accounts and expectations would be helpful. 
We are located in southern mn. If you would need any help we are not far away it sounds. We have been using liquid as a sole means of ice control for the last four years with great success. I'm glad to hear you are deciding to use liquid personally. 
Thanks,
David


----------



## Kubota 8540

VS Innovation;2114677 said:


> Feel free to message me. My company manufactures sprayers and we personally use our product each storm. I would just need to know a few things before I can give you the best advice. What size pump you are running? How fast you would like to spray? Any other information about your accounts and expectations would be helpful.
> We are located in southern mn. If you would need any help we are not far away it sounds. We have been using liquid as a sole means of ice control for the last four years with great success. I'm glad to hear you are deciding to use liquid personally.
> Thanks,
> David


I see you are new to the forum. Answering questions and helping others is a wonderful thing. But, trying to generate business for your company without being a sponsor, is highly frowned upon by the moderators. You may want to inquire about becoming a sponsor to avoid any problems.


----------



## VS Innovation

Kubota 8540;2114733 said:


> I see you are new to the forum. Answering questions and helping others is a wonderful thing. But, trying to generate business for your company without being a sponsor, is highly frowned upon by the moderators. You may want to inquire about becoming a sponsor to avoid any problems.


Thank you for the heads up. I am working on obtaining a sponsorship but have had a hard time finding someone to reply to my emails. I will continue trying.

As for generating business, I just wanted to let people know who we are. My main goal for posting on these forums is to help people better understand liquid de-icing as there seems to be a decent amount of confusion depending on what posts you read.

Thanks again for the heads up. I appreciate it!


----------



## MF 5455

VS Innovation;2114674 said:


> There are a lot of great posts here! I would love to answer all of your questions and I see that some already have.
> Let me give you some information about myself and our company.
> We have been in the snow removal business for almost ten years now. The last four years we have been using nothing but liquid for pre and post treatment of our accounts. The difference is night and day between granular products and liquid. It is so noticeable that we have doubled our size the last two just from customers wanting the liquid de-icing service.
> We have built every sprayer and brine maker we have used. We have learned a tremendous amount by doing so. Our company now manufactures these sprayers and brine makers and are available for sale. All of our products are field tested and personally used each storm. On any given storm we spray anywhere from 1500 to 4000 gallons of brine. Our biggest sprayer that we use is 2700 gallons and is completely gps controlled. This allows us to save money and accurately apply the correct amount of brine simply by changing a number on a screen! Every sprayer model we offer is capable of the gps set up. We design our sprayers to be very affordable and reliable. I would gladly post pictures if anyone is interested.
> I read a lot of confusion about pumps, tips, electronic valves and so on. We have dealt with all of these questions many times over and I would be glad to give advice to anyone who is looking to get into liquid. Feel free to message me anytime, I will do my best to check back to these threads but I am very new to this website.
> Thanks guys


Hi. Welcome to the site. By all means, please post some pictures of at least one of your spray set ups that you use on a daily basis. Please show us the workings, the boom, and the gps system. Always looking for a few hints. Perhaps you can show us a shot of your brine maker as well....just don't try and sell to me on this site. LOL

tymusic


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;2114733 said:


> I see you are new to the forum. Answering questions and helping others is a wonderful thing. But, trying to generate business for your company without being a sponsor, is highly frowned upon by the moderators. You may want to inquire about becoming a sponsor to avoid any problems.


...then, why don't you help me ???

I asked you to come to Canada, and give me a week or two. What are friends for ? :laughing::laughing:


----------



## VS Innovation

Here are a few pictures of our 2700 gallon hooklift truck sprayer. It has a three zone boom that is capable of spraying a 30 foot swath. Really nice for our big open accounts (around 7 acres). I have other pictures of the boom and controller that I will post soon, they just happen to be on my other computer.

Will also post pictures of our truck setups.


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;2117258 said:


> ...then, why don't you help me ???
> 
> I asked you to come to Canada, and give me a week or two. What are friends for ? :laughing::laughing:


ooooooooooooooo work. That stuff makes me tired. .


----------



## VS Innovation

Here are some pictures of the truck sprayers we built. We use the same electronic controls (GPS) as our hooklift truck sprayer. The best part about these sprayers is they fit in the back of our short bed trucks, allowing the tailgate to remain on the truck.


----------



## GLSS22

VS Innovation;2118144 said:


> Here are some pictures of the truck sprayers we built. We use the same electronic controls (GPS) as our hooklift truck sprayer. The best part about these sprayers is they fit in the back of our short bed trucks, allowing the tailgate to remain on the truck.


What brine do you use? Do you change brines depending on the storm?


----------



## VS Innovation

Knockah22;2119531 said:


> What brine do you use? Do you change brines depending on the storm?


We make our own brine using reject salt from salt block manufacturers. We then add liquid calcium chloride, which contains beet juice additives and corrosion inhibitors. In temperatures above 20 degrees, we apply only brine. In temperatures below 20 degrees,we add a percentage of calcium chloride depending on the temperature we are spraying in. Most of the time we use a 90/10 blend.

This is the most efficient setup for us. Our trucks fill out of our bulk brine storage tanks, and then add the proper amount of calcium chloride from our bulk calcium chloride tanks.


----------



## 86 CJ

VS Innovation;2119559 said:


> We make our own brine using reject salt from salt block manufacturers. We then add liquid calcium chloride, which contains beet juice additives and corrosion inhibitors. In temperatures above 20 degrees, we apply only brine. In temperatures below 20 degrees,we add a percentage of calcium chloride depending on the temperature we are spraying in. Most of the time we use a 90/10 blend.
> 
> This is the most efficient setup for us. Our trucks fill out of our bulk brine storage tanks, and then add the proper amount of calcium chloride from our bulk calcium chloride tanks.


We are doing about the same type of spraying and setup with Brine and 90/10, except are now pre-treating with IBG Magic at 90/10 or 80/20. How are you liking your Beet juice/Calcium/anti-corrosion mix? Do you buy that from someone or are you blending them as needed together? Our IBG is a combined Mag/Distilled Mash product with natural anti-corrosion that also acts as an Ice melt by itself. We do like the calcium blend for burning off after storms though, just more of a mess on the trucks.


----------



## VS Innovation

86 CJ;2119595 said:


> We are doing about the same type of spraying and setup with Brine and 90/10, except are now pre-treating with IBG Magic at 90/10 or 80/20. How are you liking your Beet juice/Calcium/anti-corrosion mix? Do you buy that from someone or are you blending them as needed together? Our IBG is a combined Mag/Distilled Mash product with natural anti-corrosion that also acts as an Ice melt by itself. We do like the calcium blend for burning off after storms though, just more of a mess on the trucks.


We really like the liquid calcium chloride blend we are using. We buy it pre-mixed from a supplier in Minneapolis. We make all of our brine at our shop. We added 7500 gallons of storage for our brine, and 4500 gallons of storage for our calcium chloride. Our storage tanks are all connected to make filling the tanks and trucks very easy. We simply turn a valve to switch between our calcium chloride and brine when filling.

We haven't noticed any mess on our trucks when using the calcium chloride. We design our booms to direct the spray away from the trucks as much as possible. All of our tanks fill with cam-lock fittings which really reduces the mess and prevents spilling once the tanks are full.

How much are you paying per gallon for the IBG Magic you are using?


----------



## 86 CJ

MF 5455;2110552 said:


> I built this set up for my own use.
> 
> 600 gallon tank, Hypro hydraulic driven pump, 3 electric valves, spray bar and 2 side wings. 7' Fisher Steel Caster S.S. electric drive spreader. Can open chute at rear, and push buttons on spreader (at rear) to fill a sidewalk spreader, etc.
> 
> This system works well for me. I use it for anti-icing, de-icing, with the brine and plain rock salt. (no sand for last 2 years).
> 
> I usually put 400 gallons in tank, about 1-1/2 yards salt, and go face the elements. The salt normally lasts me 2-3 storms, and brine usually one storm.
> 
> I am spraying/de-icing/anti-icing, approximately 15 acres of parking lots.
> 
> It is not perfect by any means, but it is what I wanted for a long time. tymusic


MF

Really liking your Multi Gun Ice arsenal system Thumbs Up wesport What size truck is all of that on? We are Happy with our F450 sprayer build with a couple things we need to change in the off season, but are looking at another truck to Build up with a 1.5-2yd Spreader and tank in the back to have out with us as well when we want to Spread some IBG Treated Salt. When the temps get very low on occasional storms here, we can unload the Magic Salt and or Spray and not have to worry about coming back to site first thing in the morning and re-treating because of re-freeze.


----------



## MF 5455

86 CJ;2120577 said:


> MF
> 
> Really liking your Multi Gun Ice arsenal system Thumbs Up wesport What size truck is all of that on? We are Happy with our F450 sprayer build with a couple things we need to change in the off season, but are looking at another truck to Build up with a 1.5-2yd Spreader and tank in the back to have out with us as well when we want to Spread some IBG Treated Salt. When the temps get very low on occasional storms here, we can unload the Magic Salt and or Spray and not have to worry about coming back to site first thing in the morning and re-treating because of re-freeze.


Hi

I'm using a Ford 550 dump with 11' dump body. This truck has the 19,500lb. gvw rating. A bit overkill perhaps for the weight, but that's how i bought it.

I figure the truck and dump body weighs 9,800 lb.
500-600 gallons of brine. (I don't always carry that much, but if I go out before the storm then I do.)
Salt spreder empty 600 lbs.
1-1/2 yd salt 2,200 lbs ??

It all adds up. Plus the 9' Boss v plow on front.

tymusic


----------



## MF 5455

VS Innovation;2120538 said:


> We really like the liquid calcium chloride blend we are using. We buy it pre-mixed from a supplier in Minneapolis. We make all of our brine at our shop. We added 7500 gallons of storage for our brine, and 4500 gallons of storage for our calcium chloride. Our storage tanks are all connected to make filling the tanks and trucks very easy. We simply turn a valve to switch between our calcium chloride and brine when filling.
> 
> We haven't noticed any mess on our trucks when using the calcium chloride. We design our booms to direct the spray away from the trucks as much as possible. All of our tanks fill with cam-lock fittings which really reduces the mess and prevents spilling once the tanks are full.
> 
> How much are you paying per gallon for the IBG Magic you are using?


Hi. Any pictures of your brine maker set up ?

What is the cost of plain rock salt at your location ?

Here in Canada, I am paying $96.50 for MT. (2,200 lbs)
Salt with mag mixed in is costing $105 MT

tymusic


----------



## rrvsnow

First of all, thank you to everyone on this sight for the wealth of information you provide to me and others on this sight. Plowsite is definitely one of the most valuable tools in our snow and ice management operations. I've been interested in inccorporating a liquids program into our operations for some time, and have begun to do so this season thanks to this forum (lots of reading so far, just not much posting). I've been able to build my own salt brine maker and have begun to incorporate brine as a prewet solution at the spinner of our v box spreading bulk salt. Right now, I'm just using a straight salt brine, but will be making and blending with a 10% stronger blend also. Next up is to build a sprayer setup, hopefully soon. Quick question, what are you guys using for a valve assembly to control a three section boom (read it here before, but can't remember the specifics)? Here's a pic of my brine maker, and I'll post more later as I figure out this whole picture thing a bit more and have time.


----------



## MF 5455

rrvsnow;2126934 said:


> First of all, thank you to everyone on this sight for the wealth of information you provide to me and others on this sight. Plowsite is definitely one of the most valuable tools in our snow and ice management operations. I've been interested in inccorporating a liquids program into our operations for some time, and have begun to do so this season thanks to this forum (lots of reading so far, just not much posting). I've been able to build my own salt brine maker and have begun to incorporate brine as a prewet solution at the spinner of our v box spreading bulk salt. Right now, I'm just using a straight salt brine, but will be making and blending with a 10% stronger blend also. Next up is to build a sprayer setup, hopefully soon. Quick question, what are you guys using for a valve assembly to control a three section boom (read it here before, but can't remember the specifics)? Here's a pic of my brine maker, and I'll post more later as I figure out this whole picture thing a bit more and have time.


Hi and Welcome.

I will post a picture of my valve setup which I currently use for my 3 section boom. These valves are Banjo made, but there are others on the market which will work well, and probably less expensive. I run my sprayer with a Hypro hydraulic pump set up thru the central hydraulics on truck.


----------



## MF 5455

Hi. I am posting picture of my spray bar set up, and nozzle bodies we use. These particular streamers are 1 gpm.. Quite simple. Clip on nozzle body with a brass hose barb fitting attached. You can also buy these barb fittings in poly. The hole size in spray bar for the nozzle body is 9/16". With the spring clip, they hold well, and don't leak. I put a zip tie around each one, so if I back into a snow bank, they won't come off.

Kubota is also very educated on the valve set up. He has assembled several brine sprayers, using various types/styles of tips. He's an OLD timer, and has lots of advice....:laughing::laughing:

tymusic


----------



## VS Innovation

MF 5455;2126960 said:


> Hi. I am posting picture of my spray bar set up, and nozzle bodies we use. These particular streamers are 1 gpm.. Quite simple. Clip on nozzle body with a brass hose barb fitting attached. You can also buy these barb fittings in poly. The hole size in spray bar for the nozzle body is 9/16". With the spring clip, they hold well, and don't leak. I put a zip tie around each one, so if I back into a snow bank, they won't come off.
> 
> Kubota is also very educated on the valve set up. He has assembled several brine sprayers, using various types/styles of tips. He's an OLD timer, and has lots of advice....:laughing::laughing:
> 
> tymusic


We use all tee jet brand valves. We tried the banjo brand valves this year and had poor luck with them. One thing you need to be very careful with is your wiring to these valves. Brine is obviously very corrosive and will destroy wiring very quickly. There is nothing more frustrating than a valve that does not work properly. Make sure you use weather proof plugs and shrink wrap for all of your connections. We have had poorly wired valves fail in two or three uses due to corrosion.


----------



## VS Innovation

rrvsnow;2126934 said:


> First of all, thank you to everyone on this sight for the wealth of information you provide to me and others on this sight. Plowsite is definitely one of the most valuable tools in our snow and ice management operations. I've been interested in inccorporating a liquids program into our operations for some time, and have begun to do so this season thanks to this forum (lots of reading so far, just not much posting). I've been able to build my own salt brine maker and have begun to incorporate brine as a prewet solution at the spinner of our v box spreading bulk salt. Right now, I'm just using a straight salt brine, but will be making and blending with a 10% stronger blend also. Next up is to build a sprayer setup, hopefully soon. Quick question, what are you guys using for a valve assembly to control a three section boom (read it here before, but can't remember the specifics)? Here's a pic of my brine maker, and I'll post more later as I figure out this whole picture thing a bit more and have time.


That is a nice build! It looks very close to the very first one we built four years ago. It worked really well for us, we simply out grew it. We now run a 2200 gallon brine maker. We are able to make a batch in around 45 minutes. The design is basically the same, we just have our tanks stacked on top of each other to save space. We used to run gas pumps but have switched over to all 220 volt electric high pressure pumps. The hum of an electric motor beats the noise of a gas engine all day! I will try to post some pictures of our brine maker soon. Glad to hear you are getting into liquid! Let me know if you have any questions about builds and spraying!


----------



## MF 5455

VS Innovation;2127094 said:


> That is a nice build! It looks very close to the very first one we built four years ago. It worked really well for us, we simply out grew it. We now run a 2200 gallon brine maker. We are able to make a batch in around 45 minutes. The design is basically the same, we just have our tanks stacked on top of each other to save space. We used to run gas pumps but have switched over to all 220 volt electric high pressure pumps. The hum of an electric motor beats the noise of a gas engine all day! I will try to post some pictures of our brine maker soon. Glad to hear you are getting into liquid! Let me know if you have any questions about builds and spraying!


I am posting picture of my brine maker we use now. I finished the structure fall of 2015 surrounding it. It has been a pleasure using it over the winter.
I'm also using a 220 volt electric pump for the circulation. No more gas cans !!!


----------



## MF 5455

Couple more pictures of brine maker set up and shelter over it.
A picture of our brine manufacturing logo we had made for the business. We also had a firm do up MSDS papers for the brine to carry in the spray vehicle. In case of a wreck, there will be no questions on what the clean up crew would have to do. I know it sounds silly, but we have very strict rules when it comes to what we transport in a vehicle. Brine is NOT a chemical, but a mineral mixed with water.


----------



## terrapro

That is an incredibly nice setup! Seriously nice


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;2126960 said:


> Hi. I am posting picture of my spray bar set up, and nozzle bodies we use. These particular streamers are 1 gpm.. Quite simple. Clip on nozzle body with a brass hose barb fitting attached. You can also buy these barb fittings in poly. The hole size in spray bar for the nozzle body is 9/16". With the spring clip, they hold well, and don't leak. I put a zip tie around each one, so if I back into a snow bank, they won't come off.
> 
> Kubota is also very educated on the valve set up. He has assembled several brine sprayers, using various types/styles of tips. He's an OLD timer, and has lots of advice....:laughing::laughing:
> 
> tymusic


I fully educated this young Canadian, it took me 29 seconds to tell him everything I know.....


----------



## Kubota 8540

VS Innovation;2127089 said:


> We use all tee jet brand valves. We tried the banjo brand valves this year and had poor luck with them. One thing you need to be very careful with is your wiring to these valves. Brine is obviously very corrosive and will destroy wiring very quickly. There is nothing more frustrating than a valve that does not work properly. Make sure you use weather proof plugs and shrink wrap for all of your connections. We have had poorly wired valves fail in two or three uses due to corrosion.


Dielectric grease for the particular person or wheel bearing grease for me.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;2127263 said:


> I fully educated this young Canadian, it took me 29 seconds to tell him everything I know.....


LOL. :laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## MF 5455

VS Innovation;2127089 said:


> We use all tee jet brand valves. We tried the banjo brand valves this year and had poor luck with them. One thing you need to be very careful with is your wiring to these valves. Brine is obviously very corrosive and will destroy wiring very quickly. There is nothing more frustrating than a valve that does not work properly. Make sure you use weather proof plugs and shrink wrap for all of your connections. We have had poorly wired valves fail in two or three uses due to corrosion.


I have not had any issues with any connections. I put together a junction box, which has rubber grommets where the wiring goes thru. Perhaps the corrosion you are having issues with is because you are somehow getting the brine sprayed on connectors ???

Maybe move the valve system further from the spray bar, if that's the issue. My valves are probably 8' away from spray bar, and situated up in the dump body. I'm not sure about axle grease...i always understood oils/grease to be conductive. Whereas, dielectric grease is not. Perhaps Kubota went to school to play, instead of listening...:laughing::laughing:

tymusic


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;2127278 said:


> I have not had any issues with any connections. I put together a junction box, which has rubber grommets where the wiring goes thru. Perhaps the corrosion you are having issues with is because you are somehow getting the brine sprayed on connectors ???
> 
> Maybe move the valve system further from the spray bar, if that's the issue. My valves are probably 8' away from spray bar, and situated up in the dump body. I'm not sure about axle grease...i always understood oils/grease to be conductive. Whereas, dielectric grease is not. Perhaps Kubota went to school to play, instead of listening...:laughing::laughing:
> 
> tymusic


Now now, I never went there to play. I went there to nap because I worked 40-48 hours too. payup

But I should say I am very liberal with the dielectric grease and VERY conservative with the application of wheel bearing grease. The wheel bearing grease is basically waterproof and the film just last and last in any temp.

I have also started trying Fluid Film on electrical connections.


----------



## VS Innovation

Kubota 8540;2127328 said:


> Now now, I never went there to play. I went there to nap because I worked 40-48 hours too. payup
> 
> But I should say I am very liberal with the dielectric grease and VERY conservative with the application of wheel bearing grease. The wheel bearing grease is basically waterproof and the film just last and last in any temp.
> 
> I have also started trying Fluid Film on electrical connections.


We have found dielectric grease to be our best friend. I must have forgotten to include that in my post! The biggest problem is that our sprayers constantly come in and out of the trucks we use. Sometimes our employees tend to leave the connections open to the environment. They do not always take the time to protect them and wonder why they are corroded the next time they use them! It can seem like an endless battle sometimes.


----------



## MF 5455

Kubota 8540;2127328 said:


> Now now, I never went there to play. I went there to nap because I worked 40-48 hours too. payup
> 
> But I should say I am very liberal with the dielectric grease and VERY conservative with the application of wheel bearing grease. The wheel bearing grease is basically waterproof and the film just last and last in any temp.
> 
> I have also started trying Fluid Film on electrical connections.


Posting couple pictures of my electric valve wiring connection box. It is a simple purchase from your auto parts store. $7 bucks I think.
Works well for me. This is the 3rd year I have used this set up. No corrosion yet. I do leave the sprayer in the truck from start of season until the end. Although, this would not be affected even if I removed it daily. I have a master plug at front of truck body that connects the electric valves to the controller in cab.

tymusic


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455;2127721 said:


> Posting couple pictures of my electric valve wiring connection box. It is a simple purchase from your auto parts store. $7 bucks I think.
> Works well for me. This is the 3rd year I have used this set up. No corrosion yet. I do leave the sprayer in the truck from start of season until the end. Although, this would not be affected even if I removed it daily. I have a master plug at front of truck body that connects the electric valves to the controller in cab.
> 
> tymusic


Spray those ring terminals with Fluid Film....Done


----------



## rick W

Side boom nozzle help? 
Building our first sprayer, mounting on a f450, and the I get the basic 1" pvc main boom....t jet sj3-15-vp mounted with the clips, mounted 20" apart, and 24" off ground......got that all down.

For the vertical booms...would like to throw brine out say...5-10' each side of vehicle with their own valves to control.
For some reason this nozzle selection gives me a headache. I have the tee jet catologue...but its greek to me. I understand there will be tweaks and adjustments, but....could someone tell me what they ordered for the booms that would get me running for a version 1.0? Eg...if there are 2 or three nozzles in the boom...they all need to throw diff distance and i cant see how to match those. Uggggghhh.. Anyway....any tips would be really appreciated, just want to get an order in and parts on their way. I get that there will be many tweaks and upgrades to dial it in but seem to be stuck in the planning phase. Lots of brine and nothing to spray it with. Yikes!


----------



## MF 5455

I'm having some difficulty navigating this new plow site set up. Anyways, Rick, if you find message 380 that I posted last year, you will see the vertical boom I use on my system. The holes in the upright boom are drilled kind of in an offset instead of a straight line. All the same type of nozzles are used just different settings. This will give you a pattern for the liquid and it won't all be hitting same spot. 

Here again, I only use streamer nozzles (1/8" hose barbs) in my nozzle body. Adjust how far you spray with your return valve to tank from pump. Close it off some for more pressure to your nozzles.


----------



## MF 5455

Ok... So I know I'm old(er), getting frustrated quicker every day, so someone help me figure out this upload deal for pictures please. 

I didn't have any difficulties last year, but almost everything I try to share from my photo album comes back as being toooo large in big bold red print. 

I take almost all my pics with my I phone. 

Thanks. 
Yeaaa, I know Kubota that I strayed from the brine, spraying subject, but a guy needs help once in a while. Share 29 seconds with me


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## Kubota 8540

Lets try this.


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## MF 5455

Hey... you stole my picture !!! lol.

Explain please. Give me your 29 seconds on how to upload correctly.


----------



## Kubota 8540

Under the quick reply box here, there is an "upload a file" button. It will then say chose a file, upload it. It will show at the bottom of the page. It will give you a choice to insert a "thumbnail or full size" if the full size is too big choose the thumbnail. Or figure out how to resize the image on your Iphone. Android is easier , at least for me.


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## Kubota 8540

MF 5455 said:


> Hey... you stole my picture !!! lol.
> 
> Explain please. Give me your 29 seconds on how to upload correctly.


Thats what can happen when you email pics to someone.


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## MF 5455

....I should have known !!!
Next, you will be coming here and asking me if you can have it.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## Kubota 8540

MF 5455 said:


> ....I should have known !!!
> Next, you will be coming here and asking me if you can have it.
> 
> :laugh::laugh::laugh:


Can you wrap it up, send it priority mail with a big red bow to Illinois by Christmas? AND do I have to go outside to select which tank I'm going to pump the newly made brine into?


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## MF 5455

Since this is all you ask for, I will just deliver it, set it up, go get the salt, haul the water, run the operation, fill your storage tanks....while you watch out the window from your lazy boy chair.

:laughing::laughing:

Oh yea, and please make sure you have a 220 volt outlet somewhere so I can plug my heater in


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## Kubota 8540

That would be great !!!!!! Would it be too much to ask for you to stop and get a cup of black/sweet coffee and a couple rolls from Tim's on the way?


----------



## 86 CJ

Finished up our another truck build for ourselves and got to test her out the other night on some Pre-treating. It worked nice, with great coverage, need to add some lights and finish up a couple things, but its going to be great for our local bulk de-icing truck, even throwing a blade on the front soon for an open lot to let it run around this winter. Thanks Again to all of you that helped us get to where we are from years ago


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## MF 5455

Nice looking unit. I can't see what you're pumping with. Is it a gas engine or hydraulic driven ?


----------



## 86 CJ

Thanks We wanted to build a larger quantity spray truck for localal accounts, so we sold the Superduty 450 over the summer and picked that beast up on CL cheap and built it up . just a 5.5 hp poly AG pump from Tractor Supply. We have been running them for 3 seasons now and only had 1 go bad on us. Start right up in cold with choke on and get the job done for us on multiple trucks.


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## MF 5455

Nice simple easy to put together set up. I;m guessing that is 1,500 gallon tank ? Do you spray roadways or only parking lots Do you make your own brine also ?


----------



## 86 CJ

MF 5455 said:


> Nice simple easy to put together set up. I;m guessing that is 1,500 gallon tank ? Do you spray roadways or only parking lots Do you make your own brine also ?


1400 yes, We spray Commercial accounts/lots and make our Brine and Calcium Blend/IBG Blend depending on temp and purpose. We have 3 local Landscapers buying and using our products and have been very happy with results. Then there is a bunch that see our results, but are not ready to try things out because there just use to dumping salt everywhere o there lots because its easy...


----------



## MF 5455

Nice. I have the ability to sell brine, and probably some market also. 
I have held off simply due to the ramifications of a slip and fall on someone else's parking lot who may be using my brine. 
Maybe I'm looking too deep into it, but our liability insurance here in Ontario for the snow removal part of business more than doubled last year. This is my 39th year for this type of work with no claims. Not bragging, just curious on why rates have gone up so much. One more year of snow work for us. My contracts will all be up for renewal, and I plan to bow out gracefully. 
I will have a complete brine making system available to the general public including storage tank(s). 
The city and townships were interested in purchasing brine, but payments are at least 90 days out. 
...just going to keep it small and if any local people want to purchase, it's available.


----------



## MF 5455

I only use straight sodium chloride. It has worked very well for us. I make each batch of 1,500 gallons with hydrometer (salinometer) correctly and consistently. 
I use it every year below zero Fahrenheit and have never had any freezing or slick areas from the brine. I believe it is good to -6 fah. 
I'm very careful with the mixture and also when it's below zero, usually the humidity is low also. It is a very interesting mixture and I marvel at how well it works.


----------



## 86 CJ

Sorry to hear you will be getting out of the business next year. I know you have built some nice stuff, I have been following your posts through that last couple of years. I wouldnt look to deep into selling liquids local to small contractors and worry about slip and falls. These guys are putting down anythings from Rock salt to bags of Mag and with anything they will have to learn how much to put down. If you were selling liquids Mag, it's a different story, because that can become slick with over application. I would make some up and have some local guys try it out on sidewalks and even have them setup some quick gravity fed systems in there truck to try it out, they might be surprised how well it works and how much cleaner it is in the morning and come back for more. Trial is the only way to sell liquids in my opinion. We are just a small gig, but know a lot about how we are doing things from trial and error to educate others and I think some are starting to catch on, especially when ground temps are super cold and there rock salt is not working to well after they dumped it across the whole lot already


----------



## rick W

We are just starting out with liquids this year and have been very happy with the liquid on sidewalks using an atv mounted electric sprayer with small boom. Really nice and saves big $ on ice melter/salt bags and pails and labour.

Now working on the 500g truck sprayer. Will see and obviously tweak as we use, but version 1.0 is just about ready. Open to suggestions or good ideas. Havent even tried it yet, did a gravity boom trial and that worked great. Have trouble finding some of the plumbing supplies locally so ended up using some sched 40 pool plumbing parts and will upgrade over time.
























Should be wired and running in the next few days.


----------



## MF 5455

Real nice set up. I know you're going to be happy with the results you get from the brine. 
I used 2" PVC pipe. I have a pipe threader I used to put threads on ends of pipe instead of glue. Either way is good. I don't use my wings that often when I spray. Sometimes the driver side for a sidewalk I can drive close to. The issue I found with spraying the walks is if they are narrow ones, the brine will bounce and hit he door glass or windows and leave them white.
We made 3,000 gallons brine this week and may make another bunch tomorrow. I don't like making it when it's freezing cold out. 
I would post more pictures of my set up, but for some reason when I try it tells me that my files are too large. I'm not doing something right and can't figure it out.


----------



## brknlinn

Hi everyone

I need a little help on a sprayer build.

I have read all of the posts in this string. I have found
it very informative and helpful. And for that I need to say thanks
to everyone who posted the information.

What I plan on building is a 3 zone spray boom. Nozzles in the center
and on the left side as well as the right. I hope to control these
independently of each other.

The manifold valve I was thinking of using is the Tee Jet 450 series.
Here is a link for the valve.

https://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.689.1019.2208.3865/6272

If I understand this correctly, when the valves are off (no brine to the spray bar) the fluid just continues back to the tank. Am I correct in this assumption? Or is there a better valve setup to use?

The other question is.

Do I need to install a throttling valve or pressure regulator on the return line to the tank?
If so can anyone make a recommendation or offer a suggestion?

Once again, thanks for all of the great information discussed in this topic.

Jerry


----------



## MF 5455

Hi. The 3 valve and manifold should work perfect for your needs.

When the valves are in the closed position, no liquid will get through. 

I have a 2" ball valve in the return line from pump to tank/reservoir. You can use this same valve to create or diminish pressure as needed. Depending on what liquid pump you're using will depend on how much you throttle your return. Up until this year I closed my valve maybe 1/3 of the way. This year I am leaving it wide open. I use less brine, travel little slower in my parking lots and do not compromise my customer in any way. My pump is very capable of 200 gpm, so there are minimal issues with supplying 10 nozzles @ 1/8" outlet on each. I spray between 14-16 acre space total with around 400 gallon brine. I do supplement some areas with rock salt as I feel the requirement. 
That's the beauty of the combination unit I have been blessed to build and use. 
Kubota who is also on here periodically assisted me in many ways verbally. He taught me all I know in 29 seconds. I'm either very smart or he doesn't know much. 
:canadaflag::canadaflag::canadaflag:
Happy New Year to all my friends and their families !!!!

You too Kubota.


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## brknlinn

MF 5455


Thanks for the reply. I taught this was the correct valve but I wanted to be sure before I spent 500 bucks on it.

On the throttling valve I believe I read that somewhere in this topic but I could not find it and again I just wanted to doubled check.

With all of the info posted by both you & Kubota and a few others, building the sprayer should be a pretty straight forward affair. (I hope)

Thanks again for the help

Have a Happy and safe New Years

Jerry


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## VS Innovation

brknlinn said:


> MF 5455
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I taught this was the correct valve but I wanted to be sure before I spent 500 bucks on it.
> 
> On the throttling valve I believe I read that somewhere in this topic but I could not find it and again I just wanted to doubled check.
> 
> With all of the info posted by both you & Kubota and a few others, building the sprayer should be a pretty straight forward affair. (I hope)
> 
> Thanks again for the help
> 
> Have a Happy and safe New Years
> 
> Jerry


The valves you are choosing are the same valves we run on our sprayer. We have been using a few for the past three seasons now with no issues. One thing to note is that the valve body uses flange fittings, in other words there are no threads to attach to. If you wish to thread into the valve body you will need to get part number M200FPT which is a 200 series flange adapter x 2" pipe female pipe thread. The flange clamps are part number FC200 (all banjo part numbers) and the gaskets would be a M201G. I also really like these valves because they have mounts on the bottom that accept a 5/16 bolt head.

A for the by pass, I will let you guys in on a secret . On our sprayers we run a 1" line off of our pressure side before out servo and flow meter. Inside the tank we reduce down to a 3/8 barb fitting. This allows enough flow to keep the seals in the pump cool and also does not flow enough to have any kind of pressure drop in the system. MUCH cheaper than running a pressure relief system and works through all pressure ranges whether you are idling the engine or running it full throttle!


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## brknlinn

VS Innovation

Thanks for the reply.

Yes I'm aware that these are flange fittings type valves. My thinking is that they will be easy to take apart for any servicing or modifications to the setup.

Have you had any problems with the flange style valve leaking around the flange? Do you like the threaded style more then the flange?
As for the 5/16 bolt holes. Do both style vales have these threads in the bottom?

This will be my first time building a sprayer. I'm hoping to learn as much as I can from others successes or failures.

I'm not sure if I understand your secret of the return line to the tank.
What I was going to do is just add a 2" ball valve to the return line. This way I can close it off a little if I need to increase the pressure.

Thanks again

Jerry


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## VS Innovation

brknlinn said:


> VS Innovation
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Yes I'm aware that these are flange fittings type valves. My thinking is that they will be easy to take apart for any servicing or modifications to the setup.
> 
> Have you had any problems with the flange style valve leaking around the flange? Do you like the threaded style more then the flange?
> As for the 5/16 bolt holes. Do both style vales have these threads in the bottom?
> 
> This will be my first time building a sprayer. I'm hoping to learn as much as I can from others successes or failures.
> 
> I'm not sure if I understand your secret of the return line to the tank.
> What I was going to do is just add a 2" ball valve to the return line. This way I can close it off a little if I need to increase the pressure.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Jerry


No issues at all with the flange parts. We used to thread everything and let me tell you that is a serious pain. You need to use a special thread tape and a sealer for the poly fittings, and then if there is a leak you need to tear the plumbing back down to get at the leak. The nice part about flange fittings also is if something breaks it is very easy to install new parts.

I do no believe the other TeeJet valves have the slot in the bottom to be bolted down. The nice thing about the manifold valves is the fact that they are designed to have a series of valves mounted in line. The single threaded valves will have a one inch female pipe thread on both sides and you would need to build your own manifold. The 1 1/2" manifold is great for keeping enough volume in the system to feed all three valves.

One thing to be careful of with your bypass is foaming. If you do choose to use a 2 inch return line make sure you install a piece of pvc that extends to the bottom of the tank. Brine is not an issue, but running calcium chloride will cause some serious foaming! If you can find a way to tie the 2 inch line into your system so you can self fill your sprayer that would be a great idea. The reason we run a 3/8 bypass is because you will find that you are going to run that valve shut most of the time, but we also have electronics on all of our sprayers that adjusts the flow rate. In your case you might need the 2 inch to back off the volume going to your boom. This will be something you will need to test, calculate flow rate, and figure out how much flow you need to your boom for the average speed you intend to travel. I have all of the formulas when you need them. Failure to calibrate your sprayer correctly will result in under or more than likely over application which can be costly in the long run.


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## brknlinn

VS Innovation

Thanks for the help.

I'll most likely be spraying a 90/10 mix of brine & Calcium Chloride.
When it gets colder I'll most likely increase the calcium chloride to a higher percentage. Thanks for the tip on running the return down to the bottom of the tank. Should be easy to do that.

I also have a provision in the design to refill the tank from either the sprayer pump or the brine maker pump.

As for the calibration charts, I would love to see them. I take all of the advice and help I can get.

I would be happy to send you my email, but I'm not sure how to send a PM to you.

I kinda figured the learning curve on just how much to spray will be the tricky part. In the beginning I think I would rather over spay. Don't want any slip & fall law suits. I have a good relation with my insurance guy and I would like to keep it that way. Who knows, maybe ill get it figured out before I retire.

Thanks again

Jerry


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## VS Innovation

Here is the equation for figuring out what flow rate in gallons per minute you need to have AT the input speed to achieve your desired application rate

(Gallons Per Acre x MPH x Spray Width (ft)) / 495 = Gallons Per Minute

You can see that every speed and application rate has its own flow rate. Changes in speed will result in a very large change in the application rate. You can change the formula over to calculate any variable you want. If you know your flow rate you can see how changing the speed effects the application rate per acre. The formula for that would be as follows.

You will know your width, gpm, and speed we will call S. With your known spray width and constant GPM you can change the speed to see how it changes your application rate.

(495 x GPM)/( S x Width) = GPA

Gallons per acre - 30-50 Pre treat 80-100 Post

These are the numbers we run when pre and post treating. Occasionally we will get up to 120-130 if we are trying to burn off heavy snow pack or up to an inch of snow that we don't want to plow.


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## brknlinn

VS Innovation

Thanks for the info. I will have to give it a try and see what I come with.
Your willingness to share this information is greatly appreciated.

Stay tuned I'm sure I'll have some more questions once I start building this

Thanks again
Jerry


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## Kubota 8540

brknlinn said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> I need a little help on a sprayer build.
> 
> I have read all of the posts in this string. I have found
> it very informative and helpful. And for that I need to say thanks
> to everyone who posted the information.
> 
> What I plan on building is a 3 zone spray boom. Nozzles in the center
> and on the left side as well as the right. I hope to control these
> independently of each other.
> 
> The manifold valve I was thinking of using is the Tee Jet 450 series.
> Here is a link for the valve.
> 
> https://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.689.1019.2208.3865/6272
> 
> If I understand this correctly, when the valves are off (no brine to the spray bar) the fluid just continues back to the tank. Am I correct in this assumption? Or is there a better valve setup to use?
> 
> The other question is.
> 
> Do I need to install a throttling valve or pressure regulator on the return line to the tank?
> If so can anyone make a recommendation or offer a suggestion?
> 
> Once again, thanks for all of the great information discussed in this topic.
> 
> Jerry


The Teejet 450 is excellent, I have used them many, many times. Yes when the are off it returns the liquid to the tank. Some builders like to use a pressure regulating valve with some fancy gauge in the cab to look at. I personally install a manual ball valve, shut the valve until I reach the desired flow from all my nozzles when they are ALL turned on, set it and forget it.


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## VS Innovation

Kubota 8540 said:


> The Teejet 450 is excellent, I have used them many, many times. Yes when the are off it returns the liquid to the tank. Some builders like to use a pressure regulating valve with some fancy gauge in the cab to look at. I personally install a manual ball valve, shut the valve until I reach the desired flow from all my nozzles when they are ALL turned on, set it and forget it.


Just remember that in order for the manifold to return any liquid to the tank you must install a bypass line on either side of the manifold. Simply capping the manifold will do nothing for a return. Just wanted to clarify even if it is common sense! Installing a valve in this location will work just fine. The system will still need to be calibrated for the most efficient use of your product. Most guys are over applying their liquid, which does yield great results, but wastes a ton of product. I know it may sound like I am beating a dead horse, but one of the main reasons for using liquid is to increase the profit margin and efficiency of the process. This is why it is very important to know the flow rates of your boom.

Look at it this way. Let's say you calibrate your sprayer to spray x gallons per acre at ten mph. If your speed is cut in half your application rate will double, costing you double on the areas that were over applied. It may seem like you are traveling at your calibrated speed most of the time, but the times you don't will add up. This is the main reason we run the electronics package. I'm not telling anyone they need to invest in the electronics but the math is there for the controller and other parts to pay for themselves very quickly. Without the controlled flow rate, the operator must be very mindful of the application speed and drive accordingly. You are better off setting up your sprayer for a lower application speed vs a higher speed. This will help minimize the loss.

As for the waste I can speak from experience. Last season we had one truck out of the 6 units with sprayers that did not have the electronics installed. The truck had a 500 gallon sprayer. Over the course of the season the truck over applied around 3000 gallons of product with operators that had been spraying with is the past 3 years. This cost us well over $1700 as we run up to 70/30 blends of calcium chloride. This is why I am stressing the fact that the sprayers NEED to be calibrated correctly. Everyone does it with lawn and field sprayers. Liquid de-icer is no different.


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## brknlinn

Kubota

Thanks for the help. I'm pretty sure you were the one that spoke about this valve in a previous post. I just wanted to be sure before I pick one up. And for the valve on the return line, got it, (keep it simple right)

VS Innovation

Again thank you. I did receive your email and I'm grateful for the help.

Thanks again
Jerry


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## MF 5455

i have to agree...keep it simple.
How many of us are spraying highways, roads and streets. Than I can see all the fancy regulators, gps contols with temp. monitors. I think most of us are spraying parking lots, mall areas, church lots and some commercial parking areas.
My first system was set up with pressure regulator, psi gauge etc.,etc. My most current system which has been posted on this site is a simple set up. 600 gallon tank, hydraulic operated pump, 3 electric valves, pvc spray bar with 2 pvc side arms. Spray nozzles are 1/8" hose barbs. 
I use to worry about my pressure, how many gallons I spray and my speed. 
This is my 5th season to be spraying sodium chloride (salt brine), and I now have been leaving my return valve to tank completely open, adjusting the hydraulic pump pressure to the lowest setting and basically gravity spraying. The spray bar supply hose do have check valves in them for non dripping and they require 10 psi to open. 
When my 600 gallon tank is full, all I really need to do is electrically open the valve to spray bar. When the tank is closer to empty, I adjust the pump pressure enough to open the check valves.
I find the results to be very close to the same whether I use all the fancies, or just let it basically gravity.
I spray approximately 15-20 acres each time we're out. The 600 gallon tank is sufficient for this. Sometimes I get a little heavy with saturation on high traffic areas such as entrance ways, main entrances to stores, etc., and know I'm consuming too much. 
The results I see on my sprayed areas are convincing that the straight brine works and very well. I purchase and haul my own rock salt, make my own brine. Salt here is $96.00/MT. In the USA that would be approx $87/Ton. My salt brine costs me close to $0.12/gallon.
I don't think I will worry about all the "extras" to confirm my exact gpa.

Thanks to Kubota for his assistance in learning the simple things about this set up. The whole idea is to save money by using the brine(s).


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## MF 5455

HI to all


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## VS Innovation

I agree simple is the way to go. For our company with potentially different operators in our spray trucks flipping a switch to an automatic system is about as easy as it gets. There is no doubt that a sprayer calibrated correctly will perform almost well as one that is controlled. It just takes alittle bit more work and some knowledge (plenty of it on Plowsite!). The most important part for contractors like us is figuring out what works best for our personal application. These forums are great for identifying what your company needs based on others experiences.

We are incredibly cost conscious due to the levels of calcium chloride we can run depending on temperatures. Would more brine at a lower temperature work, yes and no. We run the calcium chloride not only to drop the freezing point, but to also keep our rates per acre the same through out those temperature ranges. This takes away all of the confusion for our guys. You can see for our company how important the electronic controls actually are. It also allows us to maintain our routes for our trucks as we know how much each truck will be able to de ice every time. Achieving great results once is good, achieve great results repeatedly with increased efficiency is awesome!


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## MF 5455




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## MF 5455

VS Innovation said:


> I agree simple is the way to go. For our company with potentially different operators in our spray trucks flipping a switch to an automatic system is about as easy as it gets. There is no doubt that a sprayer calibrated correctly will perform almost well as one that is controlled. It just takes alittle bit more work and some knowledge (plenty of it on Plowsite!). The most important part for contractors like us is figuring out what works best for our personal application. These forums are great for identifying what your company needs based on others experiences.
> 
> We are incredibly cost conscious due to the levels of calcium chloride we can run depending on temperatures. Would more brine at a lower temperature work, yes and no. We run the calcium chloride not only to drop the freezing point, but to also keep our rates per acre the same through out those temperature ranges. This takes away all of the confusion for our guys. You can see for our company how important the electronic controls actually are. It also allows us to maintain our routes for our trucks as we know how much each truck will be able to de ice every time. Achieving great results once is good, achieve great results repeatedly with increased efficiency is awesome!


Hi VS. Where do you live that the temps require so much calcium use ?
I use straight salt brine at temps low as minus 6 fah. (minus 21C) and have never had any issues. In all my 39 years of snow removal, YUCK !!, usually, usually, the air becomes much drier and the humidity levels are low. Most times, the snow is powder at these temps. and with light snow events, most of it is squeaky, with excellent traction. I tend than to not spray. Clean it and leave it. I have a grocery store parking lot which is very strict with their safety protocol. I have on occasion, sprayed this lot at 10 below zero after a clearing is complete and with the sun shining it will melt. I'm getting older now  and only plan on 1 more year of this employment, so I guess with some age and experience I see things differently than I did say, 10 years ago. Spray before the storm if possible, have good cutting edges on equipment, clean thoroughly than prioritize whether you spray for de icing, salt it or just leave it. Every storm is a bit different.

I agree with your theory on using the electronic equipment when you have 30 different drivers. Most are there for the paycheck and don't give a hoot about their performance. Gotta do what you gotta do.

If it works and works well keep doing it.


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## VS Innovation

We are located in southern mn. This year we have already seen low temperatures down to -26 f. Talk about cold, and of course it managed to snow 8 inches right before the temperatures dropped. It is currently -5 here! So we do get down to some pretty cold temps. 

I'm very surprised that you haven't had any issues with straight brine! The chemistry behind brine shows the freezing point to be -6.2 f if the solution remains at 23.3%. The brine will always dilute when it comes in contact with moisture. One of the main reasons we run higher concentrations of calcium chloride is due to the fact that most of our contracts require bare pavement within 1-2 hours after plowing. The calcium chloride keeps the liquid very potent and makes it possible for us to achieve this results and still have great margins. We can't always count on the sun to burn the lots off for us as most of our snow events occur in the evening to early morning hours. So again, very situation specific. Most of our accounts are high end commercial contracts with zero tolerance and always requiring de icing. We hardly ever pre treat due to the fact we post treat so frequently. Our post treatment paired with our stronger mixtures acts as our pre treat. By the end of the season our lots are melting off as we plow allowing us to apply less liquid due to the build up our calcium chloride in the surface.

We likely average a 85/15 mixture over the entire season depending on temperatures. 

And you are very correct on employees. Most of our guys are great, but sometimes you can't teach common sense and instruct someone to adapt to different situations. This is why we developed our temperature scale method and run the controllers. It just simply takes the guess work out and ensures we will receive the desired results. It only takes one big mess up to loose a large, well paying contract!


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## valleyviewlawns

86 CJ said:


> Finished up our another truck build for ourselves and got to test her out the other night on some Pre-treating. It worked nice, with great coverage, need to add some lights and finish up a couple things, but its going to be great for our local bulk de-icing truck, even throwing a blade on the front soon for an open lot to let it run around this winter. Thanks Again to all of you that helped us get to where we are from years ago
> View attachment 168780
> View attachment 168781


What did you use for the shut off valves? We are looking at building a 3 valve system but aren't sure how to get the bypass function in a 3 valve setup on a boom. We use the TeeJet 3 way electric ball valve on the single lane boom but I can't get it in my head how to do a 3 valve with bypass back to the tank.


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