# is commercial insurance needed to do residential snow removal (no salt)?



## Wantboost (Oct 3, 2017)

is commercial insurance needed to do residential snow removal (no salt)?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

yes


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

depends on the state.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I think he is talking about GL


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## Wantboost (Oct 3, 2017)

GL?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

General Liability Insurance

It is what every contractor is supposed to carry. It is not only for your protection but also for the customer's protection.

In my area, the illegals and the hacks do not. That is also the reason that I no longer am in the industry. If you cant beat them, join them or get out.


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## Wantboost (Oct 3, 2017)

How do guys take a chance What If u damage a driveway or house or car ??? Or do they go about the LLC/BUSINESS


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

A lot of illegals here. They legally don't exist. If they damage something. I'm sure they say something along the lines, I be back later. Later never comes.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Randall Ave said:


> A lot of illegals here. They legally don't exist. If they damage something. I'm sure they say something along the lines, I be back later. Later never comes.


I went to work on site today and apparently another company is trenching up the yard to run electrical, gas, and water to a garage. Not a single one of them spoke English when I needed them to move their crap so lumber could be delivered. They sure got mad when I hopped in their van to move it. All of a sudden they could understand enough to point and ask "here?"

To keep on track, yes you do.


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## Ben/Insurance (Oct 22, 2012)

Want boost, General liability (GL) covers you when someone slips and falls at your customer's house after you've removed snow and sues you for an injury. Salt/no salt has nothing to do with it. If you touched it, you are involved. Commercial auto insurance covers you for the damage you do with the plow. Accidentally take down your customer's fence at her house with your plow? Your Commercial auto policy takes care of the bill.
Ben/Insurance


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## boya (Oct 15, 2017)

Just wanted to clarify on OP’s question— 

So even if you were to shovel and salt a multi unit residential (no machine or trucks), general liability is required. $2500 just to be able to bid on strata properties and hope a business comes out of it (assuming its year 1)


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

boya said:


> Just wanted to clarify on OP's question-
> 
> So even if you were to shovel and salt a multi unit residential (no machine or trucks), general liability is required. $2500 just to be able to bid on strata properties and hope a business comes out of it (assuming its year 1)


Snow plowing is kinda a crap shoot. Unless you can get seasonal accounts.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

boya said:


> Just wanted to clarify on OP's question-
> 
> So even if you were to shovel and salt a multi unit residential (no machine or trucks), general liability is required. $2500 just to be able to bid on strata properties and hope a business comes out of it (assuming its year 1)


Yes thats correct. It's a business venture. Nothing is free.


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## boya (Oct 15, 2017)

Have any of you guys successfully provided or marketed on-call or emergency call out services where client assumes liability?


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

How would you schedule a route with that model?

And if you are providing a service for pay, you will never be able to pass off liability. No mater what your customer or your contract says. Ultimately, if you cause damage or injury, you will be held liable.


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## boya (Oct 15, 2017)

ktfbgb said:


> How would you schedule a route with that model?
> 
> And if you are providing a service for pay, you will never be able to pass off liability. No mater what your customer or your contract says. Ultimately, if you cause damage or injury, you will be held liable.


I was thinking of a side hustle until things start rolling. I was looking at a contractors website who offered three different service packages. One of the offerings was on-call, tier 2 priority with the caveat that client understands and assumes responsibility for liabilities (not recommended for locations with traffic).


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

boya said:


> I was thinking of a side hustle until things start rolling. I was looking at a contractors website who offered three different service packages. One of the offerings was on-call, tier 2 priority with the caveat that client understands and assumes responsibility for liabilities (not recommended for locations with traffic).


Even if you tell the client they are responsible, make them sign somthing that says they are responsible, once you touch it... you just became responsible and need protection of your assets.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Basically the only way to not be on the hook is to do the job for cash and not give the customer a name or phone number. That is unless you have them sign a contract stating your not responsible for slip and falls on their property.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

iceyman said:


> Basically the only way to not be on the hook is to do the job for cash and not give the customer a name or phone number. That is unless you have them sign a contract stating your not responsible for slip and falls on their property.


If they get a better lawyer than you, you can wipe yourself with that contract now a days...


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

iceyman said:


> Basically the only way to not be on the hook is to do the job for cash and not give the customer a name or phone number. That is unless you have them sign a contract stating your not responsible for slip and falls on their property.


So, you're saying that a NJ court would Not convict him, if he was running an illegal enterprise, not collecting and paying the sales tax, and flying under everyone's radar.

Ah, yes. I see. No way is it possible to be caught on surveillance cameras in NJ.

Nope. Not gonna happen


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I've was in a law suit that I had nothing to do with. Was glad I had the insurance coverage.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

boya said:


> I was thinking of a side hustle until things start rolling. I was looking at a contractors website who offered three different service packages. One of the offerings was on-call, tier 2 priority with the caveat that client understands and assumes responsibility for liabilities (not recommended for locations with traffic).


You're not going to get anyone on here to tell you that it's ok to "side hustle" also known as illegal business that everyone of us would turn you in if we saw you doing it in our area. We are all going to tell you you need to run a legal business which means paying taxes, having a registered business, and pay for the different types of insurance you need.

If you develop a proper business plan, and then implement the plan, there will be no need for a side hustle until things start rolling. You are too late to the game to do it this year. Its a perfect time to start writing your business plan, and to get a job for the winter with a professional snow and ice management company to start learning how it's done on a pro level. If you start now, and do it right, you could have everything in place to ready for next season. Save the money you make working for a pro over the winter to pay for setting up your LLC, paying for insurance, and getting equipment.


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## boya (Oct 15, 2017)

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. Hopefully I won’t see too many kids shoveling houses get arrested this winter!


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

ktfbgb said:


> How would you schedule a route with that model?
> 
> And if you are providing a service for pay, you will never be able to pass off liability. No mater what your customer or your contract says. Ultimately, if you cause damage or injury, you will be held liable.


True but you can limit that by using this, then they have to prove it was gross negligence otherwise the client has to handle it all:

*Indemnification*
To the fullest extent permitted by law, the Client shall indemnify, defend and hold harmless the Snow Contractor, employees and subcontractors from and against any and all liabilities, costs, damages, and expenses for injuries or damage to persons or property resulting from any cause related to contractors work in, on or about the clients premises unless caused by the gross negligence of the snow contractor, contractor employees and subcontractors.

The Client shall also indemnify, defend and hold harmless the Snow Contractor, employees and subcontractors from and against any and all liabilities, costs, damages, and expenses (including without limitation attorneys' fees and other costs of defense) for injuries or damage to persons or property which occur while Snow Contractor is not physically on premises while they are not in performance of their duties on days there are no Snow Storms.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

MSsnowplowing said:


> True but you can limit that by using this, then they have to prove it was gross negligence otherwise the client has to handle it all:
> 
> *Indemnification*
> To the fullest extent permitted by law, the Client shall indemnify, defend and hold harmless the Snow Contractor, employees and subcontractors from and against any and all liabilities, costs, damages, and expenses for injuries or damage to persons or property resulting from any cause related to contractors work in, on or about the clients premises unless caused by the gross negligence of the snow contractor, contractor employees and subcontractors.
> ...


But if he's operating for pennies and doesnt have insurance how is he gonna pay a lawyer to defend that clause for him in court? I know you aren't implying him operate without it. The comment is for the OP


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

ktfbgb said:


> But if he's operating for pennies and doesnt have insurance how is he gonna pay a lawyer to defend that clause for him in court? I know you aren't implying him operate without it. The comment is for the OP


No that is for a legit business KT.

We all know no matter what you do or what you write in your contract when you drop a plow on a property you will be named in a lawsuit for anyone who sues for a slip and fall regardless of where happened and even if you had nothing to do with said area.

And boya you go ahead and do your side hustle and you better pray no one slips and falls on your sidewalks because with no insurance they will own you, your house, your car and any other assets you have.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

boya said:


> Hey guys, thanks for the responses. Hopefully I won't see too many kids shoveling houses get arrested this winter!


Well unless you're 12, there's no comparison. You want to run a business, not not go back to middle school for some piggy bank money.

If that's your approach though, there's was shoveler app that seemed like a mess that was floating around here last year.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> So, you're saying that a NJ court would Not convict him, if he was running an illegal enterprise, not collecting and paying the sales tax, and flying under everyone's radar.
> 
> Ah, yes. I see. No way is it possible to be caught on surveillance cameras in NJ.
> 
> Nope. Not gonna happen


If a guy in a beater pulls up into a driveway and backdrags 3 times and pushes piles from street they will be able to identify the vehicle with plates being blocked by the plow? Are detectives going to spend hours to find joe blow who could be from anywhere???


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Philbilly2 said:


> If they get a better lawyer than you, you can wipe your hole with that contract now a days...


i havent heard of any stories around my area of contracters being sued for slip and falls on private residential property. Not yet at least


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## boya (Oct 15, 2017)

Perhaps the context of my question was misunderstood. I mentioned multi unit residential but my question was simply if you needed insurance to provide snow removal services (no plow, take out the issue of scope). The answer is obviously yes whether you shovel or plow. Because of the nature of the work and liability, t’s unlike operating as a sole proprietor selling cookies door to door. 


Most people would allow their son/nephew to shovel their neighbors driveway for cash. Maybe even a small retail front. At least, that’s my impression. Maybe it’s different in Connecticut.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Laws reguarding family and friends are different. You aren’t going to sue your nephew when you slip and fall in front of your house. That’s not what you are talking about. You were talking about snow management for multi unit residential. That is much different than your son shoveling the steps at your storefront. You have to look at it in the proper context.


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## boya (Oct 15, 2017)

ktfbgb said:


> Laws reguarding family and friends are different. You aren't going to sue your nephew when you slip and fall in front of your house. That's not what you are talking about. You were talking about snow management for multi unit residential. That is much different than your son shoveling the steps at your storefront. You have to look at it in the proper context.


No. I was referring to allowing your son to shovel a neighbor or strangers house, maybe even a store. Or even a strata. Properties where a plow wouldn't be needed. I've never mentioned the use of a plow which I think is what most of you were assuming.

That said, it actually doesn't matter. How u remove the snow doesn't matter when the liability issue is still the same. But if someone is going to shovel 20 properties and maybe an apt bldg, I can't see them spending $2500 to get in the game.


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## boya (Oct 15, 2017)

I was thinknf of it similar to marijuana possession in canada. If you’re caught with a joint, you’re not going to get charged. Cops will toss it out, maybe warn you or tell u to smoke it where it’s not intrusive to others. 

If you’re caught with 3 lbs, you’re going to get charged for possession for purpose of trafficking (unless you have a prescription).


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

It’s a BUSINESS. A business minded person would say well insurance is going to cost me $2,500.00. I cant recover that with shoveling 20 driveways so I better come up with a model that will make me money. Not say well i cant afford it, so ill just hope for the best advice hope I dont et caught. Sorry man, people that think like that are the ones driving the industry to the bottom. And just know that professionals who are running a business, paying taxes, insurance, licenses, etc. are going to turn in guys who are trying to fly under the radar and do things illegally. We do this for a living, and dont take kindly to others who are ruining the industry by undercutting everyone else because they “cant afford” to do it right. Because the guys who do that last a season or two and then are gone. But, they left a lasting impression on the community that snow removal costs xx when in reality it costs XXX.

It costs money to play the game. Write a business plan. Figure out a profitable model. Save your money to start the business, or secure a small business loan to het started. Just dont expect a professional to tell you its ok to not play the rules. It would be like me, a licensed contractor, telling a teenager that its ok to contract to build a custom home. Just dont get caught. Ya right


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

iceyman said:


> If a guy in a beater pulls up into a driveway and backdrags 3 times and pushes piles from street they will be able to identify the vehicle with plates being blocked by the plow? Are detectives going to spend hours to find joe blow who could be from anywhere???


You keep on telling the op to be one of " those guys" sneaking around working illegally, and he might just go ahead and do it.
Why not? No ones gonna " hunt him down for plowing a driveway on the side" as they have too many hookers to arrest up the street.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

iceyman said:


> i havent heard of any stories around my area of contracters being sued for slip and falls on private residential property. Not yet at least


In NJ, its extremely difficult to win a S&F case on residential property, but not impossible. It has to do with compatible negligence, where it is required to be proved the contractor did something wrong, that caused a dangerous situation. Problem is when he pulls up to habib and his gas station, who asks him to clear the lot for a hand full if curry and a quickie with his one eyebrow daughter in the back room, and he does because he loves heavily forested women with men's faces. Now he's on the hook for the S& F.

Lol


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> You keep on telling the op to be one of " those guys" sneaking around working illegally, and he might just go ahead and do it.
> Why not? No ones gonna " hunt him down for plowing a driveway on the side" as they have too many hookers to arrest up the street.


Lol i wasnt telling him to do anything


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Think of it like this. There is a reason that rates are sky high in NJ. It's not that way everywhere. It's like that because the courts have proven to the insurance companies that if someone slips and sues you, the "victim" will win.

Other than just the whole under bidding thing that's ruined/ruining the industry, you will lose EVERYTHING if you don't have insurance and get sued. If you can out of pocket pay for someone to fall and break a bone, have head surgery because they slammed their head on the ground, pay for their lost income because they can't return to work, etc., then i guess have at it. However, since you can't afford insurance I'm guessing you don't have hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in the bank to cover that. Why the hell would you even want to risk it? For some pocket change?

You keep using the kids shoveling. In this day and age, no busiess is having children shovel their building. As a real business owner they know that's too risky. Now as far as friends/family, you're not going to take a little kid to court. Now a BUSINESS (or an adult pretending) performing work on customers homes is completely different.

We obviously can't get you to understand this, or you're just trolling on here. Either way, you came and asked us a question, and we answered. The answer will stay the same for your situation no matter if you compare it to a child or to weed. If you cant justify the cost, either work for someone else or don't do it.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

About 30 years ago, I was involved in an automobile accident. It was my fault.

I pulled out onto a roadway, and when I looked to the left, the sun blinded me for a split second. I pulled out into the road, thinking there was no one coming, but the little honda, with the woman driving at nearly 50 mph, broadsided my F100's left front tire, as the sunspot created a "missing" section in my vision. I was young, dumb and full of monkey poop at the time, and I didn't think to "wait' it out.. Funny part was I wasn't wearing a belt either, and when the accident was over, I found myself sitting on the passenger side of the truck up against the passenger door. This was a 3 speed manual floor mounted trans shifter, and somehow, I wound up unscathed on the other side of the bench seat. That wouldn't have happened today....

So, the lawsuit progresses, as she wasn't wearing her seat belt, hit the steering wheel (no air bags back then), hit the windshield with her face, broke her legs, yada, yada, yada...

I had auto insurance, which covered me in the accident.

Her husband sued me (who wasn't even in the car), for "lack of facilities". This means that his wife could no longer perform sexual acts for him, and he was suing me for not being able to relieve his sexual tension with his wife any longer. Eh, she wasn't a real looker anyway, so what was really going on there was his excuse to not do it with her anymore...

Yeah...

They both won. My insurance covered it.

Today, I'm no longer...... young, but the other's still apply...

Do whatever you want to, but to me, not having insurance is simply a gamble I'm not willing to take anymore.


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## boya (Oct 15, 2017)

Actually, I only mentioned it once to get perspective. 

In my mind, i compared it to someone answering an ad and mowing lawns. People do it. Companies aren’t crying about these gig hunters for undercutting. Then I compared it to drug possession. I wasn’t validating the practice, only suggesting the comparison. This might be hard for some of you to understand but I understand where you guys are coming from — I didn’t expect it to be a very emotional subject, understandably, for some in the industry.

And this is why I asked the question. Which has been answered many posts ago pre marijuana comment!


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

boya said:


> Actually, I only mentioned it once to get perspective.
> 
> In my mind, i compared it to someone answering an ad and mowing lawns. People do it. Companies aren't crying about these gig hunters for undercutting. Then I compared it to drug possession. I wasn't validating the practice, only suggesting the comparison. This might be hard for some of you to understand but I understand where you guys are coming from - I didn't expect it to be a very emotional subject, understandably, for some in the industry.
> 
> And this is why I asked the question. Which has been answered many posts ago pre marijuana comment!


Yeah, things tend to get "belabored" here quite a bit. A good number of fellas here are extremely passionate about their craft, whether its farming, carpentry, landscaping, engineering, welding, snow services, or even one dude here who wants to choke a chicken in a YouTube video. Yeah, a bunch of coconuts who seem to find commonality amongst.

Best to you, or whomever it is that follows their own road, or that if others... Great winters ahead...


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## boya (Oct 15, 2017)

I fundamentally agree with the advice.

However, I’m not the type that will condemn someone by reporting his tiny scale business, that doesn’t affect mine, who’s trying to make something happen with limited resources that could eventually lead to a business that pays taxes and creates jobs. If he succeeds and builds a sizeable operation, the value and opportunity he creates for others, the taxes he pays, more than makes up for skirting the law in year 1. That’s my 2 cents. To each, their own. 

If the intent was to fly under the radar to save a few bucks, you will never scale your business. It seems this is a common practice in the industry which is why it’s so fragmented. For the smaller operators, I sympathize with the frustration of the uninsured competition. It’s one line of thought you can take. It’s not mine. My thinking is to protect your business by being wildly successful. Sometimes that means doing whatever it takes within reason to get yourself to that point. Success is never linear and no two operators are alike. In any industry.

One operator might be in the space for 15 years. Insured in year 1, has a few trucks and might do $1m with his snow/ice business with small margins. 

Another guy might just have a plow and trades his time for labor with along with a small crew. Not insured, never insured. Maybe makes $30-50k. Year after year.

Another guy might start up with no $. Didn’t insure in year 1. Builds a small business. Insures the next year, scales his business and now does $10m. He may have gotten there organically, he may have gotten there via acquisitions, he might have a vision to raise millions and consolidate the industry. Then run for US President

Another guy might start up with little money, does cash jobs, pours profits into a moving business in the offseason, insures his snow business for winter, scales it where he can hire an operator to run it, then starts a company that manufactures spaceships before taking it public. 

And some 20-something kid might build a multimillion dollar snow business with no experience or money in short time while people twice his age struggle to get by. 

All of them consider themselves businessman but to break it down further, one is a business owner, one is self-employed and I will say 3 are entrepreneurs.

The intent, path, mindset and outcome is different for everyone. And sometimes the means justify the end depending on how you look at it. 

But I do appreciate the responses.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

boya said:


> I fundamentally agree with the advice.
> 
> However, I'm not the type that will condemn someone by reporting his tiny scale business, that doesn't affect mine, who's trying to make something happen with limited resources that could eventually lead to a business that pays taxes and creates jobs. If he succeeds and builds a sizeable operation, the value and opportunity he creates for others, the taxes he pays, more than makes up for skirting the law in year 1. That's my 2 cents. To each, their own.
> 
> ...


The problem isn't the fact that you are or you are not having insurance. Or even competition necessarily, at least for me on a personal level (your local competition might say otherwise). Honestly, you personally don't live here and dont effect me personally at all. It's the fact that the guys with no clue and no insurace have slowly killed every labor type job. They don't stay in business long, so I don't care about them enough to turn anyone in.

It's more the fact that (and these are just random numbers) I have to charge $50 to clear a driveway as a legal business owner, but Joe Snow n Blow without insurance, taxes, or any other legal costs, comes in with his "well if I make $20/hr I'm good" attitude and bids the job for $15.

Now after enough people start doing this, the consumer starts thinking "why would I pay $50 when it's obvious the job can get done for $15." Then after all the $15 guys get sued, quit, go bankrupt, whatever, the professional guys are left with the low prices.

I've walked away from many jobs (mainly my other business) from people making a comment about how someone on CL said they would do it for $X. It's not the fact that someone is doing it under the radar, it's the fact that they're screwing the industry as a whole.

For what it's worth, statistically most of your examples don't work out for the "company" and they go out of business within the first 12 months. Not the best to use a failing model as your examples. I do however understand 100% of what you're saying, it's just not a great plan and doesn't work out.


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## boya (Oct 15, 2017)

JMHConstruction said:


> The problem isn't the fact that you are or you are not having insurance. Or even competition necessarily, at least for me on a personal level (your local competition might say otherwise). Honestly, you personally don't live here and dont effect me personally at all. It's the fact that the guys with no clue and no insurace have slowly killed every labor type job. They don't stay in business long, so I don't care about them enough to turn anyone in.
> 
> It's more the fact that (and these are just random numbers) I have to charge $50 to clear a driveway as a legal business owner, but Joe Snow n Blow without insurance, taxes, or any other legal costs, comes in with his "well if I make $20/hr I'm good" attitude and bids the job for $15.
> 
> ...


I know of an operator in snow whose business model is elegant in its simplicity and incredibly flawed logistically. I assure you there are no operational and financial controls in place. I'm talking about unnecessary shrinkage costs, high wages-it would boggle your mind. Multiple years in business. Despite this persons lack of sophistication and extreme disorganization, it is profitable enough to be this persons primary source of income.

I'm being purposely vague. I will point out that where this operator succeeds is a very specific niche. Had the idea been brought up in this thread asking for feedback, NONE of you would say it works. I've done this for so long and know better. I'm a pro. The plan is stupid. It can't be done. It doesn't make sense. It won't last.

Until it did.

Personality has a lot to do with it. Not everyone is going to build a multimillion dollar snow business in their 20s. Like you said, most will go out of business. Sometimes the decades of experience and old thinking is a severe hindrance.

That said, this site has a wealth of info. Spent a lot of time reading the threads over the last few days. Came here for answers and feedback from the vets. Then siphon it.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

boya said:


> I'm being purposely vague. .....Came here for answers and feedback from the vets. Then siphon it.




Vampires in October???

What next? Birds that carry guns in libraries?

Eeeek!

There's a guy who has biz insurance with the small mom and pop agency my wife works for. He has biz insurance, but purposely had it rated for say... Just siding. With that, a vast majority of,what he does isn't actually covered under the policy, including, snow, roofing, tree work, and so on. Everything from soup to nuts not covered under his policy.

He doesn't care, and is extremely successful. He rolls the dice, and for decades, wins. Someday that all might change. 
Time will tell.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

You are not a "business" until you pay to play... you are a "hobby"


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

boya said:


> I fundamentally agree with the advice.
> 
> However, I'm not the type that will condemn someone by reporting his tiny scale business, that doesn't affect mine, who's trying to make something happen with limited resources that could eventually lead to a business that pays taxes and creates jobs. If he succeeds and builds a sizeable operation, the value and opportunity he creates for others, the taxes he pays, more than makes up for skirting the law in year 1. That's my 2 cents. To each, their own.
> 
> ...


I have been trying to stay out of this one and let others have the reins on this issue that re-occurs EVERY single year, but this one stepped on my toes a bit to hard.

OP:

You are missing the example in there where the guy guy who decided to wait a year to insure his "hobby" starts out doing driveways as a one man show. He backs out to far into the street, hits a fire hydrant, thus causing thousands of gallons of water to enter the street. Water floods the near by intersection causing a school bus full of children to get t boned by a semi killing 30 of the kids and putting the other 20 on board in the hospital.

You think if your kid was on that bus, you would want that guy to have a bit of insurance???

Personally, you better hide if my kid was on that bus... and hide good.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

sorry above was for boya... I did not realize that he was not the OP when I just re-read the whole thread.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> sorry above was for boya... I did not realize that he was not the OP when I just re-read the whole thread.


Ha, I had forgot he wasn't....

I'm out of this one now. He's just trolling at this point, and I just hope someone new doesn't take his advice because it's "what they wanted to hear"


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> You are not a "business" until you pay to play... you are a "hobby"


So Hillary is in business ?

Golly, gee whizz....... Now it all makes sense...


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> show. He backs out to far into the street, hits a fire hydrant, thus causing thousands of gallons of water to enter the street. Water floods the near by intersection causing a school bus full of children to get t boned by a semi killing 30 of the kids and putting the other 20 on board in the hospital.
> 
> .


Sounds like a Steven King novel....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> Sounds like a Steven King novel....


You get the point...


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> You get the point...


Yup...

Especially when it's on the end of a big stick, and my wife is jabbing it into my ribs while I drive....


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## PLOWMAN45 (Jul 2, 2003)

Ben/Insurance said:


> Want boost, General liability (GL) covers you when someone slips and falls at your customer's house after you've removed snow and sues you for an injury. Salt/no salt has nothing to do with it. If you touched it, you are involved. Commercial auto insurance covers you for the damage you do with the plow. Accidentally take down your customer's fence at her house with your plow? Your Commercial auto policy takes care of the bill.
> Ben/Insurance


 do you service ct ?


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