# Fluid change really required?



## hbrady (Oct 28, 2003)

For 11 years my Curtis plow never had an official fluid change but it leaked enough (1/2 qrt per season) so I guess it technically did Now I've got a Fisher HD plow (1 year old) and I noticed the manual mentions 'annual fluid change'. Really? Something tells me an annual change is more about Fisher selling their $30 per gallon fluid than necessity. I plow one 400' private road and a couple of driveways, I would think an occasional fluid check and change every 3-4 years would suffice. Agree, disagree?


----------



## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

The point of changing the fluid is to get any contaminates out of the system. Water will destroy the system in no time. Debris can get caught in valves. 

So IMO change the fluid every year. A little now or a lot later.


----------



## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Fluid can gunk up and cause blockages in pump. Yes change every year


----------



## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

hbrady;2061768 said:


> For 11 years my Curtis plow never had an official fluid change but it leaked enough (1/2 qrt per season) so I guess it technically did Now I've got a Fisher HD plow (1 year old) and I noticed the manual mentions 'annual fluid change'. Really? Something tells me an annual change is more about Fisher selling their $30 per gallon fluid than necessity. I plow one 400' private road and a couple of driveways, I would think an occasional fluid check and change every 3-4 years would suffice. Agree, disagree?


If you spend 2 hours a storm, each season ?

Well, then I wouldn't change it for at least 3-4 years either.  It's when you're putting 8 hours plus per storm, 10 + storms a season, whereas the fluid gets all rankin and nasty. I dump my fluid half way through the season, on very busy years. It's full of contaminants that are resulting from bits of dirt bypassing seals, parts of seals falling off into the fluid, etc. If you use it a lot, then change it often. If not, then why bother ? well, that's up to you. You could do a draw test and suck some of the fluid out during the season and look at it or have it tested.

Food for thought...

The thing about not changing it is you're allowing any moisture that's in the system to stay there, and corrode the parts / pumps / cylinders from the inside out. This is why I spend the $20 and dump it half way through.


----------



## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

Every year before it sits for the summer.............

Maybe your old plow would not have leaked if you had changed it?


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

the heating/cooling of the fluid causes condensation to form inside, water leads to rust.

not a plow pump story, but relevant here (I think)

My gearbox went out on my John Deere 47" snow blower ($900) it had 2 chipped teeth on the ring gear and the shaft splines where toast. Talked to a Deere mechanic about it and this is his theory as to what happened:

gearbox heats up and cools down, condensation forms, water is lighter then oil, upper teeth on shaft and ring gear sitting in water= rust= failure, because nobody filled the gearbox with oil periodically.

Now I raise up the blower, take out the filler plug, fill the gearbox till oil runs out, forcing the water out also. lower blower, top off oil,replace plug.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

IMO...every year is overkill. You are spot on for them wanting to sell plow fluid. If you think it helps, then by all means do it. My plows are always stored inside so maybe that helps. I've never changed my Boss V's fluid and it was bought in 1998. Still works perfectly.


----------



## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jonniesmooth;2061825 said:


> the heating/cooling of the fluid causes condensation to form inside, water leads to rust.
> 
> not a plow pump story, but relevant here (I think)
> 
> ...


Find a new dealer ASAP. Water is not lighter than oil. Oil will sit on top of water.

Back to plow fluid. Looks like this going to be another ford vs chevy deal. Those of you who don't follow the manufactures recommendations do you follow them for your truck? By the thought process of some we shouldn't bother changing oil every 3k, maybe 30k is better or once a year. It so hard to spend that $20-30 to maintain your $4k-8k investment that makes you money. To me not changing the fluid makes about as much sense as only having rear brakes.


----------



## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

kimber750;2061836 said:


> Find a new dealer ASAP. Water is not lighter than oil. Oil will sit on top of water.
> 
> Back to plow fluid. Looks like this going to be another ford vs chevy deal. Those of you who don't follow the manufactures recommendations do you follow them for your truck? By the thought process of some we shouldn't bother changing oil every 3k, maybe 30k is better or once a year. It so hard to spend that $20-30 to maintain your $4k-8k investment that makes you money. To me not changing the fluid makes about as much sense as only having rear brakes.


I will go with this one xysport


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

*ok*



kimber750;2061836 said:


> Find a new dealer ASAP. Water is not lighter than oil. Oil will sit on top of water.
> 
> Back to plow fluid. Looks like this going to be another ford vs chevy deal. Those of you who don't follow the manufactures recommendations do you follow them for your truck? By the thought process of some we shouldn't bother changing oil every 3k, maybe 30k is better or once a year. It so hard to spend that $20-30 to maintain your $4k-8k investment that makes you money. To me not changing the fluid makes about as much sense as only having rear brakes.


but then that makes my point even stronger. then the water is at the bottom and more metal is sitting in it then if it was reversed.
So then you need to suck out the fluid and refill.
I'm glad I said something and someone caught it.


----------



## allagashpm (Sep 29, 2012)

For me I do it every year. It's cheap insurance in my opinion. I need it to work, and it makes me a lot of money, so the 30 bucks isn't a big deal.


----------



## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jonniesmooth;2061886 said:


> but then that makes my point even stronger. then the water is at the bottom and more metal is sitting in it then if it was reversed.
> So then you need to suck out the fluid and refill.
> I'm glad I said something and someone caught it.


That is the entire point of changing fluid, get the contaminates out. So just the topping off of the fluid to get water out will never work. Just Meyer pumps I rebuild failed because of water. We seem to be agreeing in a backwards kind of way but have different remedies for the issue.


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Waiting for the op to come back.


----------



## hbrady (Oct 28, 2003)

dieselss;2061926 said:


> Waiting for the op to come back.


 Busy making a pumpkin pie! Ok, so which tires are best? (Ha ha). Looks like a variety of opinions BUT I did notice water spraying out of my impact wrench tonight from...condensation in compressor tank. So, to avoid expensive repairs I will be changing fluid. Thanks all and Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

That was easy, thought you were gunna need more convincing and picture proof.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

hbrady;2061935 said:


> Busy making a pumpkin pie! Ok, so which tires are best? (Ha ha). Looks like a variety of opinions BUT I did notice water spraying out of my impact wrench tonight from...condensation in compressor tank. So, to avoid expensive repairs I will be changing fluid. Thanks all and Happy Thanksgiving!


Lemon Meringue guy myself...god that sh!t makes me happy.


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

For you guys that change the fluid every year do you just do the tank or do you completly flush the system. The wideouts and other plows have 4 cylinders and lots of hoses that all hold fluid that wont get drained from the tank.


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Completely flush including removal of the tank


----------



## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

I like to change mine every year. Like other said you never know how much water or debris is in your fluid.


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

*drain plug*



kimber750;2061909 said:


> That is the entire point of changing fluid, get the contaminates out. So just the topping off of the fluid to get water out will never work. Just Meyer pumps I rebuild failed because of water. We seem to be agreeing in a backwards kind of way but have different remedies for the issue.


my gearbox doesn't have a drain plug, so I thought I would use the suction gun.
Yes, we are in agreement.


----------



## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

If I think about it ill take a picture of the meyer pump we have that died due to water getting inside... After not changing the fluid often it pretty much destroyed the entire pump.. Was told we are better off just to find another pump either used or new.. So anywhere from 300-1,300 for another pump... We used the snow plow oil from napa it says it meets the specs of the meyer oil.. Been using it for awhile now with no problems... It was like 8.00 a quart


----------



## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Ramitt;2062468 said:


> If I think about it ill take a picture of the meyer pump we have that died due to water getting inside... After not changing the fluid often it pretty much destroyed the entire pump.. Was told we are better off just to find another pump either used or new.. So anywhere from 300-1,300 for another pump... We used the snow plow oil from napa it says it meets the specs of the meyer oil.. Been using it for awhile now with no problems... It was like 8.00 a quart


What parts do you need?


----------



## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

kimber750;2062505 said:


> What parts do you need?


Pretty much the entire pump and motor. Inside housing is all corroded along with all the parts. We had a spare 60 so we just swapped it out with it.


----------



## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Ramitt;2062510 said:


> Pretty much the entire pump and motor. Inside housing is all corroded along with all the parts. We had a spare 60 so we just swapped it out with it.


Local shop has a good of used parts, if you are interested in rebuilding it give me a list of parts and I can get some prices for you. Or if you want to get rid of it I may be interested in buying it.


----------



## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

I think we talked to stork plows and they were offering a decent deal if we sent our core in so we may still go that route.. We arent to concerned at the moment since the one we have now was a spare that came with a truck we bought.. If we do decide just to get another one we will let you know... Sorry to the op for hijacking your thread!


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

The problem with water contamination in the system is not as much about corrosion or damage, as it is about *ICE*. Ice plugs filter screens, and makes valves not work.

On a lightly used plow, you can extend the fluid change interval safely by adding a bit of gas line antifreeze to the fluid. I typically wait until I actually experience the effects of ice in the system (I know, that is letting it go for *TOO* long, but other priorities win) and then add the gas line antifreeze, and then it goes to the top of my list for summer maintenance and gets a complete clean-out and fluid change.


----------



## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

jasonv;2066450 said:


> The problem with water contamination in the system is not as much about corrosion or damage, as it is about *ICE*. Ice plugs filter screens, and makes valves not work.
> 
> On a lightly used plow, you can extend the fluid change interval safely by adding a bit of gas line antifreeze to the fluid. I typically wait until I actually experience the effects of ice in the system (I know, that is letting it go for *TOO* long, but other priorities win) and then add the gas line antifreeze, and then it goes to the top of my list for summer maintenance and gets a complete clean-out and fluid change.


Gas line antifreeze is basically methanol, and works because water and alcohol are completely miscible. The mixture has a lower freezing point, and will allow you to get running if you have water accumulation.

However, the alcohol/water mixture will be worse than plain water for corrosion, and may additionally attack seals and other components. Adding it to the pump won't help corrosion, and may accelerate deterioration.


----------



## hbrady (Oct 28, 2003)

All good info, thanks!


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

And not all hyd fluids are compatible with gas line antifreeze .

A annual,biannually flush / changing of fluid should take care of any water.?
Also get a better breather, fill plug as 99.9999999% of water finds it way in threw the fill cap.

If it was getting in threw your Rams your Rams would be leaking.


----------



## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jasonv;2066450 said:


> I typically wait until I actually experience the effects of ice in the system (I know, that is letting it go for *TOO* long, but other priorities win) and then add the gas line antifreeze, and then it goes to the top of my list for summer maintenance and gets a complete clean-out and fluid change.


So you would rather wait for the plow to quit working, which I am sure only happens after you are done plowing, instead of 30 minutes and $30 to help prevent plow failures?


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750;2066760 said:


> So you would rather wait for the plow to quit working, which I am sure only happens after you are done plowing, instead of 30 minutes and $30 to help prevent plow failures?


What's.
That's when you grab your 110v inverter and wrap the pump and resivor 
With heat tape.


----------



## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

SnoFarmer;2066716 said:


> And not all hyd fluids are compatible with gas line antifreeze .
> 
> A annual,biannually flush / changing of fluid should take care of any water.?
> Also get a better breather, fill plug as 99.9999999% of water finds it way in threw the fill cap.
> ...


I agree with everything here (well maybe only 99.9%). On larger hydraulic equipment, the breathers usually have a 10 micron or so filter to keep out dirt and liquid water. You will still get condensation, you will get some dirt past the seals when the rods retract, and you will get internal wear particles that contaminate the fluid, which is why draining your tank and refilling is still necessary.


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

kimber750;2066760 said:


> So you would rather wait for the plow to quit working, which I am sure only happens after you are done plowing, instead of 30 minutes and $30 to help prevent plow failures?


They don't usually quit all of a sudden. They slow down as ice blocks the inlet screen, then speed back up after a short time when the fluid warms up. So no, it doesn't stop you.


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

kimber750;2066760 said:


> So you would rather wait for the plow to quit working, which I am sure only happens after you are done plowing, instead of 30 minutes and $30 to help prevent plow failures?


Have you ever actually cleaned a plow pump before? Its not a 30 minute job unless you just take out the drain bolt and let it run out, which accomplishes nothing since the drain bolt on a plow pump is never all the way at the bottom. Means that the 30 minute job changes out the fluid that is still good, and leaves behind all the water and filth.


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

SnoFarmer;2066716 said:


> And not all hyd fluids are compatible with gas line antifreeze .
> 
> A annual,biannually flush / changing of fluid should take care of any water.?
> Also get a better breather, fill plug as 99.9999999% of water finds it way in threw the fill cap.
> ...


The fluid doesn't actually have to be compatible. All the gas line antifreeze needs to be compatible with is water, which it always is. The gear pump will mix the two together mechanically, yes, they may separate after sitting for a little while, but the point is that they remain fluid.


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Aerospace Eng;2066700 said:


> Gas line antifreeze is basically methanol, and works because water and alcohol are completely miscible. The mixture has a lower freezing point, and will allow you to get running if you have water accumulation.
> 
> However, the alcohol/water mixture will be worse than plain water for corrosion, and may additionally attack seals and other components. Adding it to the pump won't help corrosion, and may accelerate deterioration.


I've never seen corrosion actually become a problem with a plow pump unless it sits for multiple *years* with a large volume of water sitting in it.


----------



## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jasonv;2067057 said:


> They don't usually quit all of a sudden. They slow down as ice blocks the inlet screen, then speed back up after a short time when the fluid warms up. So no, it doesn't stop you.


Ice will stop a Meyer pump in its tracks. Can also destroy valves. Blocking the inlet on any pump can wear/damage to the pump.



jasonv;2067060 said:


> Have you ever actually cleaned a plow pump before? Its not a 30 minute job unless you just take out the drain bolt and let it run out, which accomplishes nothing since the drain bolt on a plow pump is never all the way at the bottom. Means that the 30 minute job changes out the fluid that is still good, and leaves behind all the water and filth.


I have rebuilt 100s of pumps. Takes less than 30 minutes to drain fluid, flush rams and pull reservoir on my XV. Takes about an hour to rebuild a Meyer.


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

jasonv;2067057 said:


> They don't usually quit all of a sudden. They slow down as ice blocks the inlet screen, then speed back up after a short time when the fluid warms up. So no, it doesn't stop you.


Guy just posted that him mm1 wouldn't work one morning. Pulled the motor and guess what.....froze.....stopped dead in his tracks, actually his didn't even move.
And the drain plug on western ultramount plows and Fisher plows is ON THE BOTTOM.


----------



## BeaverFood (Oct 31, 2009)

I have mine changed every year.


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

the basher and son facebook page is full of pictures of crap we find inside of the reservoir, we remove them when servicing to clean/replace the filters. heat cycles, moisture , dissimilar fluids all can cause issues annual service can prevent. Do it now while you're idle and it's decent weather or face the possibility of don't under much more arduous circumstances.

We call it Hydraulic Jelly.


----------

