# Rough estimate for contract bid



## maddwraph (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi I am planning to go to some commercial places this month in order to offer contracts for next winters snow storms. Form what i researched, people tend to go around the spring. 

I want to draft a contract but I am confused on how much to charge because I hear so many different things. I am told many people will have a contract with a place (lets say building that has doctor offices) and they charge a certain amount for the winter. 

My friend and I would both be doing it. 

I was thinking about a couple places by us that has parking lots of a considerable size, like a school type and charge 30,000 from the winter. that would be from dec 15th- march 15th. this is new york by the way. 

So whenever there is at least a an inch of snow, we will be there plowing. 
That does not include the prize of salting, which i still have not figured out, but I figured the 30k would cover our insurance, truck, plow costs and have some money left over.

Does this sound fair or too much? I do not want to rip the guy off, but I dont want to break even as well. As soon as I get some rough numbers down that I want to charge I will make a contract draft and post it. 

thank you for your time!!


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Doubt the school thing.Your in NY so that means schools are usually done in house with union workers.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Sounds like a winning plan.

Research more and then some more.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

maddwraph;1978840 said:


> Hi I am planning to go to some commercial places this month in order to offer contracts for next winters snow storms. Form what i researched, people tend to go around the spring.
> 
> I want to draft a contract but I am confused on how much to charge because I hear so many different things. I am told many people will have a contract with a place (lets say building that has doctor offices) and they charge a certain amount for the winter.
> 
> ...


Have you ever plowed before?????

What equipment do you plan on using????

Where does this $30k figure come from????

Some money left over?????


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## maddwraph (Mar 10, 2015)

My partner plowed before and he has a truck with a plow. Im currently shopping for a truck and plow and found a truck with plow for about 13k. 

I have not plowed but work masonry and have expierence with bobcats and such. the plowing will not be a problem. 

I know these are vague and noob questions but its hard to research because people in my area will not tell me anything because the guys who know are trying to get the jobs themselves. they feel threatened when you ask.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

You need to start with the basics.....You need to educate yourself on the business.....

Production rates....Your costs for doing the work...Costs for running your business...Have you shopped for Liability insurance?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Small steps grasshopper.


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## maddwraph (Mar 10, 2015)

I have insurance thorough the masonry company in which I can use for snow plowing. 

the number I ran are for the truck and plow, lets say 13k. then the other 2k would be for gas etc.

By next year I would then have everything and only gas woudl e an issue. 

the other 15k would be for my partner


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

No money for salt?


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

By us it's cheaper for the schools to sub them out 
They can't guys to work in snow so they only do the salting and machine work and people work here so cheap


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

You better see your insurance agent. Tell him the scope of work your going to perform. Your masonry insurance isn't going to cover snow plowing liability.


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## maddwraph (Mar 10, 2015)

I already checked, it covers it unless it goes a certain amount. If I theoretically got a three accounts in one winter that would be a no no. 

also the school thing, i am not planning to go to schools. it was just an example. there are plenty of lots by me where business' depend on parking lots being plowed.

so by the answers I am getting, 30k for the winter actually sounds like a little bit (I was going for conservative)


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Can't snow plowing work unless it is listed in your insurance 
If you get a commercial contract and you get sued your are seriously up a river


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## maddwraph (Mar 10, 2015)

Its listed under the insurance.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Then you are good now just check limits


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## maddwraph (Mar 10, 2015)

Ok, so what would a limit be?

I wanted to send out bids next week. But I want to have a contract drafted out first to check if its ok. Is there a sample contract somewhere i can look? I cant find one online and most guys I know who do this are your "rougher no internet" type guys


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Just jump in with both feet and hold on. You will either sink or swim. 

If you are a hard worker, have money to back you , know the ins and outs, are a mechanic or your dad is one, like long long long hours and then start early very early, know the difference between transmission fluid color and pump fluid, understand what short chaining means, like to be cold, like to take risks, understand what slip and falls mean, know how to change a flat in 0 degrees in the dark, and well do not plan on being rich. 

You should go for it.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Doubt you will pull a job like that for first contract 
Honestly might be better off doing houses in a tight area less risk easier money no need for salter or machine to load 
Biger complexes needs salters a way to load them and most of them need side walk shovled and calcium applied 
So just starting out look for smaller lots of I will say it give group discounts and do houses 

Either way good luck and enjoy the ride it gets old fast 

Or even try subbing for a year or two


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

Everyone is going to say be a sub for a while or start small. If you dont have the equipment or the money then this is your onlyroute to start. If you have the money to back you then why not start bigger. If they dont need salt ( rare ) then you are that much further ahead.
If you wanna see someones contract learn how to lie. 
No one here is gonna admit to it, or say they did it,but there are other ways to get jump started in this business. If you dont have the machines to back you ( loaders for a blizzard, and dump truck ) find a sub who does.
My first years in this business i was honest and i told customers i didnt have the equipment. I seen other who i knew didnt have squat plowing bigger things with less than me. 
When i talked to them they explained the gamble. You work your ass off with what you have so that hopefully you never need a loader to come in. Some times you win sometimes you lose. 
Roll the dice and have a good insurance policy.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

I use my machines to help a friend out when he needs snow moved


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## crazyboy (Feb 3, 2009)




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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

ServiceOnSite;1979151 said:


> Everyone is going to say be a sub for a while or start small. If you dont have the equipment or the money then this is your onlyroute to start. If you have the money to back you then why not start bigger. If they dont need salt ( rare ) then you are that much further ahead.
> If you wanna see someones contract learn how to lie.
> No one here is gonna admit to it, or say they did it,but there are other ways to get jump started in this business. If you dont have the machines to back you ( loaders for a blizzard, and dump truck ) find a sub who does.
> My first years in this business i was honest and i told customers i didnt have the equipment. I seen other who i knew didnt have squat plowing bigger things with less than me.
> ...


Only problem with the Some times you win.....Sometimes you lose theory is....You bid the work way low because you don't have a clue....Then you screw yourself and the market for that matter....

The OP needs to educate himself on Production rates...Costs and how to run a business....Then bid accordingly

I would not wanna run a business on "The Roll" of the dice


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## flyguyirvin65 (Feb 18, 2015)

On a Call;1979109 said:


> Just jump in with both feet and hold on. You will either sink or swim.
> 
> If you are a hard worker, have money to back you , know the ins and outs, are a mechanic or your dad is one, like long long long hours and then start early very early, know the difference between transmission fluid color and pump fluid, understand what short chaining means, like to be cold, like to take risks, understand what slip and falls mean, know how to change a flat in 0 degrees in the dark, and well do not plan on being rich.
> 
> You should go for it.


That is straight up the truth


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Problem is his lives in one of the most picky areas in nation 
They have a lot of money and expect top notch service 
And his and my area is one of the most sue happy areas in nation


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## R1lukasz (Sep 23, 2014)

lot that gone bring 30k just plowing ,what about sidewalks and salting ? how big the lot needs to be ? and what equipment U planing to bring there?


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

The OP is clueless and ripe for disaster. Follow Old Dogs advice.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Pay a lawyer to draw up a contract 
Or like call a nsp get there contract and switch names around make the client responsible for everything 
Butting bids out now is too early
Also I never heard of insurance covering snow only to a limit either u have snow coverage or you don't 
Also even if you land a $30,000 contract how much profit are you expecting to make on that 
Having a partner is not a good move hire a worker with experience why split the profit


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## maddwraph (Mar 10, 2015)

I am researching it. A huge part of here is coming through these forums. Id rather overestimate than under.

the guy I was working with, I saw what he does to the customers. he wouldnt plow as good as you should, or he would block certain areas. It was plain wrong. I feel I can give a better service, work harder, and make some money off it. 
Im throwing numbers for the estimate and I would not want to get a large lot this time. A small lot or residential sounds better, especially if I can avoid salting.


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## MichiganMark (Feb 25, 2014)

You're gonna get a butt load of feedback here.....Here's my .02, FWIW....

I'm just wrapping up my first year (solo). I tackled mostly resi's with a couple commercials (Realestate office and a Burger King) and some private drives. I first got my insurance in order. Then I contacted 3 different guys that I knew had plowed for a long time (One guy has been at it 30 years, the other two over 20). I bought them lunch last summer and picked their brains....what did you do right? Wrong? What would you different? What are your biggest complaints from customers (resi & commercial)....etc. I also bounced rough drafts of my contract off of them. This gave me a good foundation to start with....I had not been in snow management before and wanted to try and minimize my mistakes. Their counsel was extremely beneficial. Reaching out locally will give you a good handle on what to expect around your area. I was not becoming competitors with these guys, so that was also helpful. 

My biggest mistake is that I overbooked myself. I didn't lose money.....but I worked my fool head off when it snowed. My route will be smaller geographically next year. 

I would advise getting a lot of this worked out before you go and bid on stuff. Not having a concrete contract or pricing structure will most definitely burn you. 

Good luck!


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

I say build a rep with houses 
Every commerical lot we do requires salt and all but one requires shoveling and calcium in walks 
Any job that was able to make easy money at are all gone trust me this is not an easy caree and the bigger you get the bigger bank roll you need a lot of my commerucal work gets paid 60 days later some 90 and a few 30 but you can drop coin quickly break down buying materials need a sub for an emgerency 
Commerucal can pay out big but big risk also 
Residental if done correct can make money and have less risk


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## zjfisher (Aug 5, 2008)

Been reading this Thread and these guys have A LOT of excellent points! We live in NY the 2014/2015 brought us 15 incidents starting as early as Nov. 24 2014! I am roughly 60 miles north of you and from what I understand south of Interstate 84 was worse then up here with more events and more accumulation.
Sounds like your just starting out, get a decent used CLEAN AND PRESENTABLE truck! put a straight blade on it for under 5 grand.
NEVER NEVER BUY A USED PLOW TRUCK! Buy a truck and put a plow on it! Unless of course its your Granddads or you know the complete history of it!
get a few driveways, start small and grow. make a name for yourself. no partners work for yourself and higher a friend to help pay him cash. 
dont forget too get your DBA. and a tax number! Higher a accounting & keep all your receipts yes for every thing! get the correct insurance! and if your doing commercial make sure you tell them. It will drastically increase you premium.and i know you said your mason insurance covers snow. but once you have a problem they will drop you and you will probably spend 3 times the amount to have liability insurance for any thing you do. you need a spreader if doing commercial. there is no way around it. it will be my investment this fall. if I can land some bigger commercial accounts. just because the fisher 1000 is just way to stinking small, great for a couple dozen driveways but thats about it. oh yeah and spend a few 100 bucks for a lawyer too draw up a contract. it will be the best couple 100 $ you ever spent! and of course good luck!


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