# when they want a PROFESSIONAL!!!



## rusty gmc (Nov 2, 2003)

HI guys, while still trying to figure my bids out, i thought i would relay an interesting comment a fellow contractor said to me the other day.both he and i were bidding on the same contract at an association here in town. all the bids came in and apparently i was NOT the lowest bidder,but had more to offer in the way of services,i.e. shoveling,snowblowing,etc for about the same as 2 of the 5 other bidders. well, word gets around that i must have lowballed the association to score such a contract and one day one of the rejected over-priced bidders rolls up in his shiny-new 3/4 ton, 12 ft v blade, chevy hemi powered,power-stroke,dura-max,duallie,4 door,quad steer,dump bed,lift kit ,strobe lights and 2-way dispatched snow plow rig from hell and laughs at me in my 1985 305 powered 4 speed gmc 1/2 ton flat bed with a 7.5 fisher and, god forbid,MANUAL HUBS!...he says,from the comfort of his climate-controlled truck, "when they want a PROFESSIONAL, they'll call me"! now, hey,i understand the frustration of losing a bid,but in my opinion,the truck doesn't make the professional, the professional makes the truck, does anyone else out there plow commercially with a truck older than mine?


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## speedracer241 (Oct 13, 2001)

I do 

I have 82 and 83 Dodge pickups. One has a slant 6 and they are both manual trannies. I put manual hubs on both trucks .

Not to many creature comforts, just fewer things to go wrong.

All I care is the heater and defrost works.
Mark K


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## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

I would have said, "don't be expecting a call then." 

Maybe he just think's he's professional and drives around in his truck just for show.


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## rusty gmc (Nov 2, 2003)

thats the good stuff,speedracer! if parts for my gmc weren't so available at the local parts stores, i'd still be running mopars (note) i took my wife truck shopping one day, and disappointed by prices we ended up at a local auto parts store.so i asked her,'what would you like dear, bondo or fiberglass?':yow!:


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

Just this month, we retired my 1986 F-250 (I made 'em cut it up so no one locally would buy it). I plowed in it right up till the end of last winter.... (although the past two winters it hasn't seen much in the way of any real "work" since I'm tied to the office now). But, I never considered myself anything but a professional - and several others around the snow industry do as well.

So... screw 'em and their fancy dan trucks.... "professional" is a state of mind, and evidenced by how customers perceive our finished product.


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## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

You couldn't have put it better John!:waving:


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## Ohiosnow (Sep 20, 2001)

*rusty gmc*

*PROFESSIONAL* :waving:

To me is doing the job ontime & the right way everytime, now that's professional.

Don't fret not having a new rig  I've seen more new rigs than I can count smashed up by guys who think they are PROFESSIONAL


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## CARDOCTOR (Nov 29, 2002)

it the guy in the truck that matters

i have a 79 f250 not pretty but aleast one color

86 f250 dented wont take my wife out to dinner in it

they do the job 
the customers happy
this yr im putting a plow on my 98 ram

the guys a sore looser




john


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## NoStockBikes!! (Oct 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rusty gmc _
> *"when they want a PROFESSIONAL, they'll call me"! *


 He must read Plowsite.  Sounds like a page out of the "reaction to lowballers" Apparently in this case you were mistaken for one.


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## kipcom (Feb 3, 2001)

He was probably the HIGHEST bidder....you have that much invested..you have to pay for it.  

Large overhead = HIGH rates

Remember this::: KISS ( keep it simple stupid )

YES, good reliable equipment and operator will win over a "flashy" truck everytime.


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## apkole (Mar 1, 2003)

The previous owner of our company put it quite succinctly, " New paint never made any money in snowplowing." Having owned this business for the past 13 years, my experience has been that he knew what he was talking about. Good maintenance of equipment yields consistent service for the customer, no matter the age of the equipment. We still use 1977 Jeeps for some of our work. We replace worn parts, keep the drive train serviced, and they keep right on truckin. Isn't fiberglass great! 

Our 5 operating SW48 Bombardier sidewalk plows are late 1960's units which with a little TLC give us good service. Best of all, this equipment is PAID FOR. At $65,000 a copy for new, I can deal with quite a few repair bills.  

Andy


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

Sounds like a good business philosophy.....


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## THREE W (Jan 18, 2002)

1976 Dodge 1-ton, good old work girl with less than 50,000
miles.

Keep in mind we do not have the rust issues that many in the
east have to deal with.


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## WOOFSPLOW (Sep 17, 2003)

I have seen a few of them "shiny-new 3/4 ton, 12 ft v blade, chevy hemi powered,power-stroke,dura-max,duallie,4 door,quad steer,dump bed,lift kit ,strobe lights and 2-way dispatched snow plow rig from hell" but only on sunny days and never out at 3am with a foot on the ground and more coming. :salute:


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## rusty gmc (Nov 2, 2003)

i only hope i see mr. shiny new plow rig from hell stuck in a snowbank somewhere.IF i stop to help,...it will only be to tell him he needs a PROFESSIONAL to pull him out


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## greenworldh20 (Dec 28, 2002)

professional...what does it mean?

to me, getting it done right...the first time.

if that so called 'plow contractor' took the time to stop and assume what you bid, then he is a putz. forget about him...if he spent more time worrying about his biz and not yours, he might have gotten the contract.

like john allin says...the only way you lose a bid is if the other guy was better than you.

brian


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## North Country (Nov 14, 2003)

Hell, When I started I 'Pushed' a rusty blower! Talk about bottom of the food chain.....LOL! 

But with that rusty snowblower and the aptly named '77' ('77 F-150)- We would hear "The job you guys do is [email protected]#*in' incredible!" - Just because we would cut the edges of the customers drive with the blower after we plowed.

Professionals: Talk the talk - Then walk the walk


Allow me to step down from my soapbox.......


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## MGardner (Nov 27, 2001)

I don`t even want people like that as neighbors. With that type of attitude the customer probrably heard a liteny of BS about how much his equipment cost`s.... Good, I wouldn`t be surprised if he looses a lot of other accounts. Professionals don`t say such egotistical statements , instead a professional will remain professional and people gravitate to characters they feel confident with rather than intimidated with all the fancy toys.


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## rusty gmc (Nov 2, 2003)

WELL SAID!...after plowing this last big storm,all of our customers were very pleased that we were able to keep them open during the storm. i was happy that the ol' gmc was able to do it without having to resort to the back up rig. the back up rig,is a snowblower!


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## Luppy (Oct 6, 2003)

Rusty gmc - that guy is a total immature jackass. Surprised he gets any business at all with that kind of attitude...regardless, YOU got the account not him. hehe

Do us a favor and get some good pictures, if you ever see him in a jam out on the roads. He'd really love that huh? 

Best of luck to you this plowing season!


Michele


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

All my trucks are white , they have a 50/50 paint job . they look good from 50 feet or 50 miles per hour. Rustoleum oil based enamel cut with mineral spirits sprayed on. Spray foam fills the rust holes and bondo tops it off. We are in the business to provide a service , those shiney trucks only shine for a short time. 
Professional is the person doing the job . i can put 5 used plow trucks on the road at the cost of a new truck. We have a neat appearance out there. How ya gonna feel when a guy comes back in in your new 40,000 dollar truck with a caved in side panel.

You dont get paid any more for a new truck than a used truck


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## MGardner (Nov 27, 2001)

Amen,


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## Snow Jaw (Aug 17, 2003)

HI all I am still driving a 74 dodge with bigger motor that I put in.
still get alot calls on even there is no AD in paper just post your phone number on truck that's all.
http://www.angelfire.com/ne2/larsontrucking/plowsnow.jpg.html


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## MGardner (Nov 27, 2001)

On closer inspection you may find various dings, scratches , bumps and non-original components. dashboard has been "modified" to accomodate accessories eliminating pretty stuff that would inhibit electrical repairs. Started out seven years ago with a high dollar "loaded "truck and eliminated it after two short months of commercial use. After climbing in and out on a regular basis with mud caked boots... it was sold outright. Liked it when we wanted to look pretty and found that customers were not impressed, in fact they figured we had to be high to pay for it, I would.


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## Foz (Mar 27, 2001)

Too bad...sore loser! If you show up on time, do what you told the customer you would do, & complete it...you are a professional! New or old equipment does not determine your success as a business, your attitude & the way your customers perceive your actions will make or break you!


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## rusty gmc (Nov 2, 2003)

nothin' says "gettin it done" like a 1 ton diesel dodge!!....you must just laugh staring down a long drlft-filled,tight driveway!..thats the right equipment!


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## MGardner (Nov 27, 2001)

It`s more like a damned tractor than a truck,and with that old Cummins the best part, aside from the turbo sound, is plowing all night on very little fuel in comparison to a gas truck. :waving:


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## JMR (Feb 24, 2003)

My 1979 1/2 ton Chevy PU, 85 1/2 ton Suburban, 84 GMC 3/4 ton PU, 90 Chevy 1 ton dually make more money each time it snows than they are worth. Plenty of rust on each, but all mechanically very sound. Why buy a $40,000 truck to bust up, dent, and watch rust away when you can get the job done with old paid for trucks and put more in your pocket. Don't have to worry about dents, dings & scratched paint. We still charge the same as the guys with the high priced rigs. Each truck averages 8-10 hours per storm billed @ $110+ per hour. Just my opinion. Satisfied customers and my bank account tell the real story.


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## avalancheplow (Dec 20, 2003)

Don't Be A Hater!
You guys know if you could afford a nice truck you would get one. Why do companies carry uniforms, and have their trucks lettered up nice, and require their employees to stay presentable. Thats because thats professional. I wouldn't be caught in a junker. People buy looks. If you go into give a presentation or hand in a bid looking scrubby and driving your 1980 rust bucket, no matter how much you don't think they do they will look at that and judge that with your bid. One more problem with the old trucks is that they are not reliable. The manager or owner of a property probably knows that in a big storm you truck will break down unlike a newer truck with a new plow. I am asking all the professionals that are professional back me up here and leave a reply.


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

well in sports professionals get paid and amatuers dont. 
Some guys like to buy new trucks some dont. New trucks break down as do old , its uslually different things that break. A old truck can look as presentable as a new . I personally like great deals on a used truck ( which was a new truck at one time) . I can go out and buy a couple of new trucks and pay cash for them if I realy wanted to , I choose not to. But I can put 4 soon to be 5 plow trucks out at 110 to 125 per hour on any snowstorm, and if something does accidentally happen to any one of them its no big deal. The age of your equipment is irrevelent ,its the image you present ,and most importantly the quality of the work that you do that makes you a professional.


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## rusty gmc (Nov 2, 2003)

hey boys, i am afraid i would have to agree with mr. avalanche. i think plowing $15.00 to $25.00 dollar driveways with a $30,000.00 plus truck makes perfect business sense. why ,i'm sure the profits alone must cover the insurance AND monthly payments on such a plow rig that was CLEARLY designed to scream,'hey!..I HAVE A HUGE MONTHLY PAYMENT AND YOU MUST CONSIDER ME A PROFESSIONAL BASED ON THE FACT THAT I HAVE A SHINY-NEW TRUCK AND THAT LOSER IN THE OLD GMC CANNOT HANDLE YOUR 25FT DRIVEWAY BECAUSE HIS TRUCK WILL BREAK DOWN AT THE FIRST HINT OF SNOW!!!....AND FURTHERMORE,HE IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL BECAUSE HE WONT INVEST ANY MONEY IN A NEW RIG LIKE ME!!!!AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!..OK ,i've had my fun,by the way,when i placed my bid for the condo assoc.contract,NOBODY asked me what i had for equipment. AND for the record...my old gmc is my PLOW truck,the daily drive is 98 3/4 CHEVY 4WD with NO plow...oh.. and i have TWO of them....go figurepayup


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## JMR (Feb 24, 2003)

I agree 100%. Nobody has every asked me about my equipment. I give them a list of references. Good professional service speaks for itself.

The wife ends up driving my beautiful 3/4 ton 4 x4 so she can tote the kids around, while I'm out making green in the rusty but trusty plow trucks.


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## MSC (Oct 19, 2003)

A saying comes to mind that an old timer told me.
You can't put shiny in the bank!
I have three trucks.
A 97 Dodge Ram xtra cab longbed diesel, 8' pathfinder
A 90 GMC 3500 2wd dump, 9' pathfinder, swenson sander
And a 79 F350, with an 8' fisher.
They all work, they all make money, and the best part is,
They are all paid for!
If it doesn't snow, they can sit there and do nothing.
Low overhead means more profit.
If they come back with a scratch, nick or dent, it's not the end of the world.
If your trucks get maintained, and driven by people who give a damn about your equipment, it will last a long time and make you money.
Mr Shiny just sounds like a sore loser to me, don't worry about him.
I know I wouldn't.
Rich


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## SCSIndust (Mar 4, 2003)

I run an 87 Suburban, totally decked out for plowing. I mean everything has been modified to plow, yet it looks sharp enough that I can drive it everyday and still get compliments. Yet, it is paid for... big plus. I also run an 88 bronco, totally decked out for snowplowing, and paid for. I look at it this way - With an old truck I can modify it much easier for what I want to do with it, with out worrying about computers, or messing with the warranty, etc. No one can say that an older truck ISNT easier to work on than a newer one! I can weld, cut, or do waht ever because it is my truck, not a show piece, but a work truck. I have semi-uniforms, company policies, snow plow logs that everyone carries, many extra parts I carry with me, backup plowers in case I need them, good comm. ins coverage on my vehicles. The list goes on. I'm night a fly by night company, but a pro. I do pro work. And if that guy would have said that to me, I would have embarassed his ass with the details of my company!! I hope his operation goes well... getting the stick out of his ass......


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## ih82plow (Dec 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by avalancheplow _
> *Don't Be A Hater!
> You guys know if you could afford a nice truck you would get one. Why do companies carry uniforms, and have their trucks lettered up nice, and require their employees to stay presentable. Thats because thats professional. I wouldn't be caught in a junker. People buy looks. If you go into give a presentation or hand in a bid looking scrubby and driving your 1980 rust bucket, no matter how much you don't think they do they will look at that and judge that with your bid. One more problem with the old trucks is that they are not reliable. The manager or owner of a property probably knows that in a big storm you truck will break down unlike a newer truck with a new plow. I am asking all the professionals that are professional back me up here and leave a reply. *


Well again I doupt if I am going to win the favorite new member award here,As I have stated I own a service company but not a plowing company But I have been plowing since I was old enough to touch the pedals 
But I have to support avalancheplow here.As a consumer I prefer to use a proffetional when I have to hire a company to supply me there services.So as a consumer I look for how a company apears to an untrained eye. A newer vechicle/piece of equiptment. A neat uniforms.A clean truck this is what I look at when deciding on a company also how the company is represented

I personally own a fleet of service vechicles or I should say my company does.But all of our trucks are well maintained.If they get a dent or a scratch we fix them immediatly,the service life of out trucks are 5 years max and we retire them sell them off regaurdless of mileage.I find it cheaper to replace them then to allow them to nickel and dime me to death.I am a firm beliver in having clean and new trucks on the road.Any body who says they have a plow truck and its over five years old and it perfect has not been under his truck in a while.Or has replaced all of the steel lines and steering componets all ready.

Not trying to bash anyone with an older truck but the anology of a guy trying to get rich doing 20 dollar driveways with a 40 thousand dollar truck No body can get rich doing those driveways even if the truck was free belive me.

And you folks with the older trucks be honest with your down time and your repair bills your not getting away alot cheaper then me.The difference is because I keep my trucks for only 5 years and maintain a manufacturors warrenty on the truck so I am indemnified from any repairs except for normall maintnence.I have fixed planned exspensise for the useable life of my truck and can plan what to charge for my trucks upkeep and cost's.

I would say you should own the best peice of equiptment for the job at hand to make your job easyer.And it seems these newer truck are alot more comfortable to work in meaning less stress on the operator,that means a happier operater who should be able to work longer and faster then an uncomfortable exchausted operator


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## SCSIndust (Mar 4, 2003)

I totally see your point. I know I have put a lot of work into my personal plow vehicle, and spent a bit of money. You must also remember what kind of people you are talking to. Someone with a large plow crew doesn't use their trucks year round neccessarily. So why spend $40,000 each for 5 trucks when you can have 5 older trucks for a total of $40,000? Grant it, you have to maintain them a little better, but if they look relatively presentable and work good, what difference does it make? If a client hired me based on my vehicles, I wouldn't even bother with the contract. Besides, who is going to see you at 3 in the morning? Certainly not the property manager! 

Yea, everyone would like a new truck to plow in, but that just isn't realistic unless you can make those trucks work year round. Then I would justify buying new trucks. My plow trucks will probably get driven every few weeks over the rest of the year. I might use one if I need another truck to say, pull a second trailer, or to drive when my truck is in the shop. 

I'm just looking at it from expenses vs. quality of work vs overall look. I'm not trying to butt heads, but make a point. Thanks for listening:waving:


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## avalancheplow (Dec 20, 2003)

THANK YOU ih82plow!

To the guys out there with the older trucks replying to this understand that I am talking about plowing larger accounts and some smaller commercial stuff. If you are just doing driveways or old trailer parks than fine a junker will do, but if you go for accounts which are $35000.00 seasonal condo's assocations, to have the professional look you need newer trucks. I agree with ih82plow about length of keeping trucks. After 5 or 6 years its time to retire the trucks. Plus after that length of time new plows with better technology come out. Also all my trucks are year round company and personal vehicles. During the summer I do property maintenance so the trucks are moving and making money, and making my company look professional!


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## SCSIndust (Mar 4, 2003)

Who is saying if it isn't new it is a junker?????? I resent your comment about only doing trailer parks or driveways with older trucks!! You are proving my point that if you can afford to buy new trucks and use them year round, then it is worth it. Otherwise why bother? 

I'm retiring from this thread because it is a losing battle. Some of you people are just so dense and stuck in your ways you can't even acknowledge us using older trucks....

Anyway, Merry Christmas to all!


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## Ian03 (Dec 10, 2003)

*Sorry Matt and Pat (Avalancheplow)*

Matt and Pat, you guys need to be a little more professional in this forum.

Just so everyone is clear I know these 2 personally and feel they should be going about this thread differently. If you 2 were on your own paying rent and heat and electric you wouldn't be saying these things because you would be in a junker. I don't mean this as an insult because you 2 are good friends of mine but when you kept bugging me to read this thread I thought you guys were on the defensive but i can see that is not the case. Talk to me after college when you have your own apartments and we will see if you can still make your Avalanche payment, and your S-10 and your Mustang. You guys have to realize the guys on this forum do this for a living and are Professionals without being flashy. Now granted you guys do good work and your growing client list vouch for that, but if I am looking for someone to do a job, I would never base it on the equiptment, it's all about the people and job they do. My parents would still have you do there driveway if you had a 1985 toyota with the bed falling off because you do good work. The truck doesn't make the company!


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## Radguy (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: Sorry Matt and Pat (Avalancheplow)*



> _Originally posted by Ian03 _
> *Matt and Pat, you guys need to be a little more professional in this forum.
> 
> Talk to me after college when you have your own apartments and we will see if you can still make your Avalanche payment, and your S-10 and your Mustang. *


Bwuahahaha

Yup kinda figures. I own a 94 Toyota and just started getting into the plowing scene.
So what the truck is a few years old and not the biggest baddest thing on the road. It get's maintained very well, so therefore more often than not the problem will be fixed before it happens. Not to say it won't break while I'm out, but you can't say that about ANY truck on the road.
Oh and I'm only 27 with a family and own my own house along with a couple of new snowmachines and a new road bike. And my son is spoiled rotten. 
But I could go out and buy a couple of brandy new $40,000 trucks, but why? That would be less money I have to spend on my family.payup 
I'm sure the day will come when I buy a new truck, but that'll be when I can't find anything else to do with my money


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## Mrplowguy (Dec 25, 2003)

Hey guys sorry but I have to agree with avalancheplow. The main thing this thread is talking about is being professional. To be all around professional you should have a newer truck with the lights and stickers, and new equipment it gives you the professional appearence. When someone is driving by they see what you are driving to plow with and if they see a nice truck and the parking lot looks good then they will most likley think thats a real professional plowing that place. If you look at parking lots like a mini mall or even larger like wal-mart they are plowing with trucks that are 5 years old or newer, not a 85 ford or 87 chevy. Even places like McDonalds the guys are using newer trucks.


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

The new vs old dicsussion should actually be changed to a worn out truck vs a maintained truck. I drive a oil truck occasionally for a company whos trucks span years from 1972 to 1999 , They are well maintained , in excellent shape and present a professional appearance. They all have passed a complete D.O.T. inspection this season . Some oil compainie in this area are running trucks painted with a roller and their name is painted on with parking lot stencils. These trucks look like crap . I prefer the old iron, I purchace low mileage vehicles in good condition and run them for 2 to 3 years , If a truck is in need of major repairs the truck is sold and a replacement is already waiting. This method has worked well for me , its not everyones game . New or old you have to do whats best for your own situation.


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## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

It's getting real old listening to everybody whine and cry.:realmad: How did the original post get to this? 
Once again, this is a fine example why some of the veterans left.


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## rusty gmc (Nov 2, 2003)

ok,i guess this post did get a little out of hand,even from me.sorry!i think that by reading all the feedback from everyone,it is clear that equipment choice is up to the person that will pay for it and the image they want to project. i personally dont believe in buying equipment that i cannot afford and using it to ,hopefully start a snowplow business. to me ,it makes more sense to buy old stuff,fix it, build the plow route slowly, and then maybe move on to another truck IF the plow route grows to match the need of better equipment. there are some of you out there that do nothing but landscaping and snowplowing as your only business.for those guys,i say yes maybe you should have sharp-looking equipment to help "project" a professional image.you know what your bottom line looks like at the end of the year.but to those guys out doing plowing for additional income, running a paid for old toilet of a plow truck would be the most practical way of making money. i mean really,isnt that what we're all about?making money! sure, i would love to slap a$4000.00 plow on one of my '98 chevys,but i only have a total of $1500.00 in my gmc!! the first snowstorm paid for the whole truck! NOW i am making money every time it snows! thats how you do it......with a 1/2 ton


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