# Electronic Shifting ATV



## WayneSnow

I have an Honda Foreman 450 es and it stopped shifting and got stuck in gear. Had to use manual shift tool to shift and it was a mess. Couldn't plow. Brought my quad to Honda dealer and I found out the ECM module(brain of the electronics) is shot. Its $400 just for the parts and over $400 to fix.


Has this happened to any one else?


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## IPLOWSNO

yea my buddy had a problem with his, its electrics and if it's in the wrong place could hurt any quad imo

did ya get it submerged at all? or crap get into it??????????


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## sublime68charge

most of the time the Foreman 450ES are rock solid.

It happens though that the ECM can go out.

check out www.highlifter.com for some tips on how to shore up the electronics on your foreman. just going over most of your connections with dielectric grease is a big thing to help prevent water intrusion.


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## mattbob18

I have a 07 Honda Rincon 680 and every time I put it in reverse it grinds. Its like it doesnt wanna go in. I am holding the brake to.


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## nhgranite

i had a rancher with the electronic shift. piece of crap. froze up all the time. forget to put it in neutral when you park it and it wouldn't start because it would be froze in gear. finally got rid of it.


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## ferrari4756

nhgranite;955121 said:


> i had a rancher with the electronic shift. piece of crap. froze up all the time. forget to put it in neutral when you park it and it wouldn't start because it would be froze in gear. finally got rid of it.


i have a rancher and it works great. never had a problem with it. even when it sat for about 2 months and it started right up. i also go mudding and run it through creeks alot.


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## ferrari4756

mattbob18;954899 said:


> I have a 07 Honda Rincon 680 and every time I put it in reverse it grinds. Its like it doesnt wanna go in. I am holding the brake to.


i also have a rincon too lol and we have the same "problem." it happens more when the engine is revved higher (or the choke is out more)


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## IPLOWSNO

is your idle set high? does it wanna move on ya immediately,? warm it up good before ya go out,


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## Mark Oomkes

nhgranite;955121 said:


> i had a rancher with the electronic shift. piece of crap. froze up all the time. forget to put it in neutral when you park it and it wouldn't start because it would be froze in gear. finally got rid of it.


Ditto, stupid engineering. Or lack there of.


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## sublime68charge

nhgranite;955121 said:


> i had a rancher with the electronic shift. piece of crap. froze up all the time. forget to put it in neutral when you park it and it wouldn't start because it would be froze in gear. finally got rid of it.


Did you not read the part where is say's to have the ATV in Netural when parked? How was this ATV treated in its lifetime? Honda ATV's have been some of the Most reliable ATV's built and will last forever if routine maintance is done on them at all.

just wondering the treatment the ATV recieved. I have been over at the Highlifter board for a few years and if there's a flaw in ATV's it has been found there and disected over countless time's THE ES shift is not a flawless system the angle sensor is the weakpoint of it for sure. alont with the motors buring out as well but by and by the ES shifting system has been a pretty big success for Honda

but to label the Rancher platform a pieace of crap cause you left it in gear and then could'nt get it to start is a bit extreme. Wondering was this on a hill so there was pressure on the gears more than the shifting motor could overcome? 
the first year Rancher 400 of 2005 or 2004 when ever they came out did have problems though.

Guess I just go and start up my 02 Rancher 350ES in 15 degree weather and with 6400 miles give or take and call it a pill also.

have a Nice Day,

Sublime out.

just my thoughts.


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## sublime68charge

Mark Oomkes;955307 said:


> Ditto, stupid engineering. Or lack there of.


Mark,

so your backing that Honda ATV's are some of the worst enginered ATV's that are made?

the ES shifting has been in the Honda Line up since 1998 or so. It is still offered on there ATV's a 10 year run,

just wondering your thoughts as to why you'd back a post saying Honda is crap and Stupid engineering, or lack there of?

Honda has done some dumb things the 400 Rancher AT was not long for this world but has been replace with the 420 Rancher that many people like.

not wanting to pick a fight but just wanting to know your reasoning behind your post.

sublime out.


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## sno commander

im not a fan of the electric shift, it sucks trying to plow snow with them because of the reverse is a pain in the a%* ill take my prarie 360 over one any day


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## sublime68charge

I don't mind the ES shift, I have not Plowed with a ES machine as My Rancher that is ES I have on the blower and I don't shuttle as fast with the blower it takes longer to raise the blower up so I have more time to get shifted to R, I also have the Reverse Overide in effect on both my Honda quads and that sure does make the shuttle shifting alot nicer. No need to pull the brake lever and push little red Button just push the button 2x and go from 1st to R and hit the gas On the foot shift it's 2x with your foot and away ya go.

Heck my Foreman I have down to every leg and arm has it's own function. 
My dad Has a Praire 360 that I have used and I think I'd rather have the ES shift "with R button overide" than having to let go of the handle bars to shift from F to R every time. 

if I did not have the button overide though the Praire all the way you can get in a nice shuttle shift pattern on them also though.

just my thoughts.

sublime out.


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## jomama45

mattbob18;954899 said:


> I have a 07 Honda Rincon 680 and every time I put it in reverse it grinds. Its like it doesnt wanna go in. I am holding the brake to.


Two easy remedies:

Adjust the idle down slightly

or

Adjust the linkage on the shifter itself.


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## sven_502

I would also contribute that hondas are not junk, whether you maintain them or not. My dad has a foreman 450ES, and while I admit the ES was not the greatest idea, the rest of the atv is just tough as nails. Ours is a 2001 and its went through a set of rear axle and front wheel bearings, but other than that in 4000km and I dont want to know how many engine hours, it hasnt given us any problems at all. I admit the 4x4 on hondas really does suck, or should I say 3x4, and if your a noob then getting into reverse can be a pain, but I can do it with one hand just as quickly as anybody can slap the shifter from High to Reverse on their polaris. I have had my ES shifter give me problems though, 2 or 3 times a year in the winter when its -20 it doesnt want to work, but if I let the engine warm up a bit longer it usually doesnt happen. It does suck if you shut it down in gear 4 and forget, but you can get it back into neutral easily by rocking it, same as a footshifter. If it was my atv I would've bought the footshift model, but to call them junk is kind of inaccurate, ours is pushing 9 years old and thats the only problem its had. Not bad for an atv that doesnt run unless its towing 2000lbs. 

PS I forgot to chime in that if I wasn't in the picture that honda would probably still be running on the original engine oil too.


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## Mark Oomkes

sublime68charge;955474 said:


> Mark,
> 
> so your backing that Honda ATV's are some of the worst enginered ATV's that are made?
> 
> the ES shifting has been in the Honda Line up since 1998 or so. It is still offered on there ATV's a 10 year run,
> 
> just wondering your thoughts as to why you'd back a post saying Honda is crap and Stupid engineering, or lack there of?
> 
> Honda has done some dumb things the 400 Rancher AT was not long for this world but has been replace with the 420 Rancher that many people like.
> 
> not wanting to pick a fight but just wanting to know your reasoning behind your post.
> 
> sublime out.


Huh, guess I missed the part where I said the whole thing is an engineering clusterfoxtrot. The ES is badly engineered, not the whole machine. Mine has been beat to crap and it keeps right on going. Just wish the shifter was better.


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## sublime68charge

I guess I just don't know where the ES shifting is that bad of a thing. yes it does have more problems than the Old Foot Shifter. its hard to beat simple mechanical foot shifting. I would just say for those that have the ES and don't like it why keep that machine around the ES model's are worth more than the S models find a S model same as your ES and due a trade. 

I like them both, I didn't think I would like the ES at all but after spending some time on my rancher that is ES I don't mind it at all. I did not think the ES shifting would hold up when they first came out but my rancher has 6,400 miles and the shifter works just fine.

now watch I'll have 12" of snow on the ground the blower on the front warmed up and purring like a kitten and the quad wont shift into gear or out to R next week. Last week I had enough snow to run the blower and the darn WARN winch broke the Ing on wire and quite working I had to ratchet strap my blower up 2x to transport from drive to drive and then lower down for snow removal @#$#. 
such is life.

sublime out


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## WayneSnow

I have had my quad for over 5 years with ES and never had a problem. I absolutely love the ES and it is very good for plowing for me


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## jomama45

Mark Oomkes;955729 said:


> Huh, guess I missed the part where I said the whole thing is an engineering clusterfoxtrot. The ES is badly engineered, not the whole machine. Mine has been beat to crap and it keeps right on going. Just wish the shifter was better.


Your lucky you came back in to clear up the air. If not, I was going to have to resort to more "pot shots". :realmad::laughing:


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## mattbob18

IPLOWSNO;955286 said:


> is your idle set high? does it wanna move on ya immediately,? warm it up good before ya go out,


I do and sometimes it still does it. And yah it does it when the choke is on and stuff. But before it would never even seem like it had a problem shifting into reverse. But all of a sudden it started to do it. I have to take it to Honda to see what they think, but i havn't had the time yet.


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## sublime68charge

Mark Oomkes;955729 said:


> Huh, guess I missed the part where I said the whole thing is an engineering clusterfoxtrot. The ES is badly engineered, not the whole machine. Mine has been beat to crap and it keeps right on going. Just wish the shifter was better.


guess I mis read your first quote where you "dittoed", a post that was vague in what was being called a junk. Yes the ES has had some problem's Honda's 4x4 system is more like 3x4 and there old style Drum Brakes faded and then just quit working if you play in 2 much mud and water. But you have to give it to Honda there ATV's will be running many years from now when other's have went down for the count.
can sit for months and a push of the button and there off and running ready to ride.


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## sven_502

sublime68charge;956112 said:


> guess I mis read your first quote where you "dittoed", a post that was vague in what was being called a junk. Yes the ES has had some problem's Honda's 4x4 system is more like 3x4 and there old style Drum Brakes faded and then just quit working if you play in 2 much mud and water. But you have to give it to Honda there ATV's will be running many years from now when other's have went down for the count.
> can sit for months and a push of the button and there off and running ready to ride.


I also forgot to mention our brakes are beyond screwed on the honda, but thats a given after a year with them anyway. I wouldn't think plowing with the ES would be too bad, especially if you did the reverse cut off trick, its just the redlined at 6mph in reverse that would make it irritating to plow with.


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## 06Sierra

ferrari4756;955237 said:


> i also have a rincon too lol and we have the same "problem." it happens more when the engine is revved higher (or the choke is out more)


I didn't realize the fuel injected rincons had chokes. You guys can try adjusting the shift linkage. Is it giving you any trouble going in to drive? Does it seem to be idleing high? It is fairly common on the FI Rincon's that the IACV gets gummed up and needs to be cleaned. One more question, does the atv "creep" when you have it in gear on level ground? When it is in gear on level ground it should move when you put it in drive or reverse.


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## 06Sierra

sublime68charge;956112 said:


> guess I mis read your first quote where you "dittoed", a post that was vague in what was being called a junk. Yes the ES has had some problem's Honda's 4x4 system is more like 3x4 and there old style Drum Brakes faded and then just quit working if you play in 2 much mud and water. But you have to give it to Honda there ATV's will be running many years from now when other's have went down for the count.
> can sit for months and a push of the button and there off and running ready to ride.


Tap the front brake a little and all 4 wheels will dig in Works good in the Rincon so I assume it would work in the rest of the Honda line up.


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## DJC

I have two 07 420 ranchers and they both have trouble shifting when its really cold out.


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## sublime68charge

06Sierra;956384 said:


> Tap the front brake a little and all 4 wheels will dig in Works good in the Rincon so I assume it would work in the rest of the Honda line up.


Yes that works great some times other times it just digs you deeper into the Hole your in. and instead of being just stuck now your sunk and stuck.

it is a good tip to try though.


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## nhgranite

sublime68charge;955447 said:


> Did you not read the part where is say's to have the ATV in Netural when parked? How was this ATV treated in its lifetime? Honda ATV's have been some of the Most reliable ATV's built and will last forever if routine maintance is done on them at all.
> 
> just wondering the treatment the ATV recieved. I have been over at the Highlifter board for a few years and if there's a flaw in ATV's it has been found there and disected over countless time's THE ES shift is not a flawless system the angle sensor is the weakpoint of it for sure. alont with the motors buring out as well but by and by the ES shifting system has been a pretty big success for Honda
> 
> but to label the Rancher platform a pieace of crap cause you left it in gear and then could'nt get it to start is a bit extreme. Wondering was this on a hill so there was pressure on the gears more than the shifting motor could overcome?
> the first year Rancher 400 of 2005 or 2004 when ever they came out did have problems though.
> 
> Guess I just go and start up my 02 Rancher 350ES in 15 degree weather and with 6400 miles give or take and call it a pill also.
> 
> have a Nice Day,
> 
> Sublime out.
> 
> just my thoughts.


i bought it new and never beat it. i maintain my toys very well. as far as parking it and forgetting to put it in neutral first, come on like i'm always going to remember to do that. i go out to plow and realize that i left it in 2nd and it won't shift to neutral so i can start it. honda provided no override like maybe apply the brake and it would start, nothing. i'm out in -5 degree temps with a hair dryer so it will shift back to neutral. i like the concept but make it weatherproof!


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## sublime68charge

nhgranite;956643 said:


> i bought it new and never beat it. i maintain my toys very well. as far as parking it and forgetting to put it in neutral first, come on like i'm always going to remember to do that. i go out to plow and realize that i left it in 2nd and it won't shift to neutral so i can start it. honda provided no override like maybe apply the brake and it would start, nothing. i'm out in -5 degree temps with a hair dryer so it will shift back to neutral. i like the concept but make it weatherproof!


I guess I just have the habit of leaving my quads in N when parked on level ground on slopes I will turn the front wheel's up hill and also set the brake.
I know over at the Highlifter.com they have instructions on how to set up your quad to start when it's in gear. usefull when your in the mud hole and sinking deeper by the second and you killed it. you could try that route so then you could start yours in gear.
just a thought.

sublime out.


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## sven_502

Funny how most of us can remember to put our truck in park, but nobody can remember to put their honda back in neutral.


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## ALC-GregH

My Grizzly starts in any gear regardless.


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## sublime68charge

ALC-GregH;957341 said:


> My Grizzly starts in any gear regardless.


How's the power pivot work in any gear?

ok sorry, really I'm gonna lay off. :laughing:

well maybe not.

yea I alway's put my quads in N when done kinda like the truck goes in park.

how many leave there Blades up? I put mine back on the ground don't want the extra weight hanging off the ATV. also at the end of the day I'll turn the gas off on the quad even if It be used the next day. Cept on the 84 Big Red the gas stays on.

that is all sublime out.


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## jomama45

ALC-GregH;957341 said:


> My Grizzly starts in any gear regardless.


My Rincon starts in Drive as well, you just merely pull the right hand brake to start.


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## nhgranite

jomama45;957986 said:


> My Rincon starts in Drive as well, you just merely pull the right hand brake to start.


just like my king quad. no worries about what gear its in.


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## tazzman15

My rancher starts just fine in any gear. Just pull the right hand brake and push the ignition button. It even starts in reverse


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## awl51

*Overriding reverse interlock for ES Rancher*

A couple of the posts indicated some heartburn with the hand gymnastics needed to shift into reverse. One of the first things I did before starting plowing with my 2WD Rancher 4 years ago was to disable the red button system, just search the Honda ES boards.I forget the exact fix, but it was fast (5 min) and simple to do, reversible, and used ty-wraps (yay!). This simple fix changes the whole experience, just finger shift the moment your forward momentum nearly stops. I would never want to plow 10 minutes without it.

Two caveats: the reverse protector thingy is there for a reason. I'd recommend this approach only if you are the sole operator, and also only if you can remember the correct shift technique when you are wet, tired, and cold; you know -- those times when you hit the "winch" control and the headlights go on instead....


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## irv

i did the reverse mod on my 350 es when i got it in 02. worked slick.
also had the first year 400 AT and had no probs except for no low
range and too much of me for climbing..both of these were bulletproof machines.
but i didnt really beat on them, always kept them clean and used syn
oil.am now on my second rubicon and have had the same luck with
both. if you dont like the shifting get a rubicon and shift or not. never
had it not shift when in esp mode. , but you hardly ever need it.
almost bought a grizzly 550 w/ps last time. it sat more comfortable
but it wasnt a honda. if honda had a diff lock it would be perfect for me.
--irv


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## jim331656

I was dead set against the electric shift so I go the foot shift Rancher 420. My buddy got the es and after playing with his I have to admit it is pretty cool. Where it really shines is when you are kneeling on your seat in water or mud over your floor boards and want to put it in reverse. He laughs at me when I have to drop my right leg into freezing cold water to stab the shifter down. 

Also my 09 rancher will start in any gear... Pull the front break and it will start


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## irv

this isnt about the power pivot, but i was talking to a warn service center the
other day and he said if you are traveling very far with the plow up and
stressed against the winch to secure it w/a secondary strap to keep it
from pulling and bouncing against the winch. i guess a lot of problems
start from this, at least on the warn winches. just an fyi--irv

oops maybe wrong thread.thought i had the power pivot thread


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## irv

i think all the hondas do now. its just not advertised[

QUOTE=jim331656;1182074]I was dead set against the electric shift so I go the foot shift Rancher 420. My buddy got the es and after playing with his I have to admit it is pretty cool. Where it really shines is when you are kneeling on your seat in water or mud over your floor boards and want to put it in reverse. He laughs at me when I have to drop my right leg into freezing cold water to stab the shifter down.

Also my 09 rancher will start in any gear... Pull the front break and it will start[/QUOTE]


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## bullseye

You guys ....... DON' T GET ME STARTED !!!!!!!!

I plow snow with my quad for a living !!! Thumbs Up I LOVE MY 08 HONDA 420ES for plowin snow  
As a matter of fact, my old quad (which my dad now owns), an 03 HONDA 350ES works with me plowin snow and my dad LOVES his quad too. 
I agree with the reverse thing BUT other than that both quads are just perfect for plowin snow. Just the right size for getting around things and just enough power to push increadable amounts of snow. We both have Moose County Plows and they work awesome with no issues either.
I try to take care of my quads (regular oil changes, clean air filter, no swamping them into deep mud or water, etc) and both quads have never had any real issues. The electric shift has been fine in both quads. The 03 acts a little goofy with the shifting IF you have have the choke out to far (but really not the quads fault !). And 03 still has the stock tires on it and it still plows tons of snow and works really well.
My 08 can start in ANY gear, just have to pull the hand brake and vroom it starts !!!
HAPPY PLOWIN !!!!! payup


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## irv

had plows on my 02 350 es and my 04 400at. never a problem. im like
you .i baby my stuff. i hate to get it dirty and change oil[syn] way before
its time.have never been let down by any of the 4 hondas ive owned
yet.--irv
and yes they all have had esp buttons .


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