# Can I steal your ideas???



## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Here is the situtation, I need a way to store and load my salt this year. With the customers I have now it will take 5400 lbs per event. That is nothing to most of you guys, but for me thats good. I can't justify buying or leasing a skid steer, it would only be used to load salt, and mabey a few times landscaping each year. I am going to use bulk. Now I can either load bulk salt into super sacks (pre season) and buy a fork lift to load them when I need them, or I could build some sort of elevated storage container and load it a few times per year then when it snows load that way.  


Could someone give me an idea? Any kind of storage container or somthing I am missing.


Thanks to all Bossman


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## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

Check in to leasing a skidloader. I'm sure theres some place in town that sells bulk salt where you can buy it by before the snow, and they'll load it for you,.


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## YardMedic (Nov 29, 2006)

What's the volume of the v-box and the other spreader you have? Reason being, if you're looking at a yard of product in the v-box and a couple wheelbarrows of it for the smaller one (just a guess), why not dump a pile at the shop or house for the small spreader, and have it loaded for you into the v-box by the supplier's loader? To me that would seem most practical without renting pricy equipment


~Kevin


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

The closest salt yard is an hour away. Last year I bought from him, then spread the rest by bag. It has to sit in the spreader for too long, and sometimes freezes in. Leasing a loader ($3600) and the only real use I would have for it would be to load the salt.

Keep the ideas coming, sooner or later we will come up with somthing.

Bossman


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## home rescue (Oct 25, 2003)

I use bulk magic myself, and what I do is bag my own. Uline is a supplier of plastic bags and I bought their bag sealer. Palletize them in my garage and some on the truck, when it starts snowing I top off the truck with bags and go. Not as good as a loader but better than a shovel. I myself use 4000 to 5000 per storm too. Worst part is I have access to a kubota loader but out of room to store bulk in a pile on property.


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

how about a home fab conveyor belt loading system? Something you can shovel from a pile onto the belt instead of shovel & heaving it over the top of the box.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Not a bad idea there BS, no pun intended! I havent thought about that.

Bossman


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

the other option might be a compact tractor or used skid? Payments to OWN a used machine would be much less than $3600/mo to lease a loader. I bought a Kubota L48 this year and life got so much easier. I don't know how I survived without a similar machine before.


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## 6feetdeep (Sep 8, 2006)

Home Rescue- Which bags do you use? I got onto the website, but wasnt sure which bags would work. I would like to use bulk this year and bag it up about 50# per bag.
Thanks,
Matt.


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## YardMedic (Nov 29, 2006)

Where's the nearest rental for a Bobcat? It would seem to me that maybe spending $100 a couple times over the winter might be a far better idea than keeping something around that cost you $3500 for the season.

What about other contractors in the area, or at the very least some old farmer a mile or two away that you could slide a $100 to load the stuff a few times over the winter? You're gonna need a network of contractors to bail you out anyway (we all do... it's no dig on you), so surely one will have a loader to borrow/rent/hire as needed


~Kevin


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

I will need to salt on average 20 times this season, and I don't always know when that might be. So renting one on a day to day basis is not a good idea. I have a few buddies that also salt but they use far less than I do, and only handel bags. I have no prolbem renting a skid a few times a year to re-load my hopper, but I can't justify letting one sit around waiting for snow.


Bossman


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## Flipper (Nov 1, 2001)

Do a search for Alan. Old post will have an auger setup he was using. I used a similiar setup for years with a conveyor instead. Works well just not as fast as loading with a skid. 

Much more convenient and dependable to have your own supply rather then depending on a dealer to be open and have enough.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Being a Farmer I agree with the auger or conveyor idea. It will be a PITA but you will be able to buy a small auger for alot less then renting a skid for a month. Fertilizer is alot like salt and it will go up an auger fine. It will be alot more work shovelling but you won't have to go to the gym all winter. Good luck.


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## rfed32 (Nov 4, 2005)

we have a small cat skidsteer 226 and we finaced it...if i recall it was 400something a month for i wanna say 3yrs 0% down 0% interset for 36mos but that might be another idea...i know cat makes a small skid steer and im sure it would be cheaper then what we paid for ours...we use ares to plow and to load...

then in the summer run an add for skid steer services....and list what you can do...


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

Two things come to mind 
1 an auger or conveyor with one end sunk into the floor of whatever you keep your salt in so you can shovel salt into a hole or possibly push the salt into the hole with a 4 wheeler or lawn mower or anything you currently own
2 mount a gravity box on top of those large cement blocks you can get at the ready mix concrete plant then just pull underneath and open the chute of course you will have to get the salt up there but an auger would do that when the bulk is delivered and that would be on a day when time isnt quite as important. another way if you have a large drop in land with a retaining wall or something like that and you may be able to leave the running gear on the gravity box and park on top of the retaining wall and run a chute down to where you load the truck


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

SNOWLORD;413121 said:


> Two things come to mind
> 1 an auger or conveyor with one end sunk into the floor of whatever you keep your salt in so you can shovel salt into a hole or possibly push the salt into the hole with a 4 wheeler or lawn mower or anything you currently own
> 2 mount a gravity box on top of those large cement blocks you can get at the ready mix concrete plant then just pull underneath and open the chute of course you will have to get the salt up there but an auger would do that when the bulk is delivered and that would be on a day when time isnt quite as important. another way if you have a large drop in land with a retaining wall or something like that and you may be able to leave the running gear on the gravity box and park on top of the retaining wall and run a chute down to where you load the truck


I like your idea of the gravity box but with my experiece with wet corn and fertilizer you will be shoveling the gravity box out anyway, so you might as well load right into the truck. JMO I never though of pushing the salt in with a 4 wheeler or lawn tractor, great idea. We used to store corn in our driving shed and we had a auger in the floor that we pushed corn in with a skid and it worked real good.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

I think I may have an idea. I found 2 old grain wagons, the kind where you turn the wheel and it opens the shute. I am going to go back today and find out if they want to sell them. If they do I may load them with dry salt and park both inside at the shop. I also found an old grain auger that I could use to lift the salt from the wagons to the V box. I will know better after this weekend.

Bossman

Can anyone else think of a better way?


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## daplowman (Oct 28, 2006)

*These are alot of great ideas*

The only thing i would be concerned with is the dampness. Could you imagine shoveling out a grain trailer in dead of winter. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Bossman 92;413205 said:


> I think I may have an idea. I found 2 old grain wagons, the kind where you turn the wheel and it opens the shute. I am going to go back today and find out if they want to sell them. If they do I may load them with dry salt and park both inside at the shop. I also found an old grain auger that I could use to lift the salt from the wagons to the V box. I will know better after this weekend.
> QUOTE]
> 
> You might need to consider a vibrator for the grain wagons.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Thats not a bad idea basher, where would I find one?


daplow man, I am going to buy a few skids of bagged salt just in case! I can keep the salt some what warm if I need to.

Bossman


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

I think the idea might work if you leave the grain wagon in a heated work shop. But for leaving it outside forget about it. For anyone which operates a v box spreader how long can you leave the material in it before you have one monster grain of (rock)salt in your hopper?? Nothing worse thean picking through a yard of hardend salt I know this by experience. :realmad: This is no fun, for now on those damp nights we better use it up before the actic cold front comes by and the truck sits for a few hours till that evening. 

Keep in mind all the salt at the bottom of the grain bin will be compresed similar to the bottom of the v box spreader.

How about talking to other plow guys in your area. Work together and try to have a pile at a location where you all take from. Just use a log book to keep track of who uses what.
That way you also develop a strong circle of friends in case something stuipid happens and you can save some coin too!!

DAFF


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

The gravity wagon concept would work good in theory, but I agree with the post above. I have had lots of experience with gravity wagons and most of the time gravity isn't enough. I think you'd be better to shovel into the auger. Shovelling 2 or 3 ton a night is easier then opening up all those bags. JMO


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

I guess I thought it would be in a heated shed if not yes i agree it would probably booger up! oh well I just switched a gas vbox to electric and for my next project im thinking of a 3 point box plow for tractors we currently build all of our own box plows for our tractors but the loaders on the tractors are so wimpy that when you put a 14 ft box on a 7140 that little loader resembls the rubberband man but we can stack at least.


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## home rescue (Oct 25, 2003)

*regarding 6feetdeep*

Sorry no computer yesterday, I'll have to check my box for the number and get back with you.


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

good i am waiting too i cant figure out which bag it is and which sealer do you use?


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

DAFFMOBILEWASH;413236 said:


> I think the idea might work if you leave the grain wagon in a heated work shop. But for leaving it outside forget about it. For anyone which operates a v box spreader how long can you leave the material in it before you have one monster grain of (rock)salt in your hopper?? Nothing worse thean picking through a yard of hardend salt I know this by experience. :realmad: This is no fun, for now on those damp nights we better use it up before the actic cold front comes by and the truck sits for a few hours till that evening.
> 
> Keep in mind all the salt at the bottom of the grain bin will be compresed similar to the bottom of the v box spreader.
> 
> ...


i like this idea, kinda like a COOP. maybe your "coop" could hire a loader and operater to tend the salt bin and keep track of what was taken out. you could really have a nice outfit if 5-10 contractors got together.


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

Boss Ok thats about 3 skids of product per event. With no equipment to load you must have a v box and think bulk is the way to go because of price or profit. Draw back frozen supplies and no place to off load if you have to dig it out plus time down due to maint probs. You can either find a good landscape company that is open during events or contact local municpal dept for pricing. We run about 12 tons of bagged chemical each pass on our props and sometimes 3 times a day to keep them under control. Although we pay a higher price for bagged product we always have good dry clean product to spread never frozen stock and no clumps to clog. The prob you have might be supplies on hand or the time it takes to resupply the hopper. Higher is better to unload to a rig that sits up 4 feet but to find that in the middle of a storm and keep it safe from damage might be hard to find not to mention where to put it. My prob owners let me put storage bins at location thru the route. I tell them its for reserve so they dont run out and we have plenty of product for worse case. 110 bags of product is not that much you should go thru that in about 45 min plus you got to clean up the mess (used bags) find a dumpster on the prop to dispose of the. One fixed location of resupply cost time and money to return and resupply many locations give you flexibility to go with changing conditions during the storm. In short I had the same prob to justify the cost of using bulk vs bagged and I have found bagged product works for me never have to worry about frozen stock or digging out froz product. Just my 2 cents ........


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## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

lol for pete sake what a hastle. It isn't that hard to find a loader, I mean I can find a used farm tractor for under a grand that would do the job just fine. Not to mention the local rental place rents mini skids, MT's for very cheap, maybe $100 per storm and you could use that to load your salt, not to mention you could probably finance a used skid for under $400/month and then just sell it in the spring if you have no need. For all the hastle of building some thing that probably wont work perfectly you half already paid for atleast half of your winter cost of a loader,


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Xoopiter-Jeff;414012 said:


> lol for pete sake what a hastle. It isn't that hard to find a loader, I mean I can find a used farm tractor for under a grand that would do the job just fine. Not to mention the local rental place rents mini skids, MT's for very cheap, maybe $100 per storm and you could use that to load your salt, not to mention you could probably finance a used skid for under $400/month and then just sell it in the spring if you have no need. For all the hastle of building some thing that probably wont work perfectly you half already paid for atleast half of your winter cost of a loader,


I'll agree the loader is the best option, but a farm tractor with loader for under a grand. Where in Canada are you?

Having a community pile is a great concept, but for some reason somebody will always take more then they said they did, I would rather use bags then share. JMO


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Xoopiter, I COULD rent a loader everytime I need one, but do you realize how many small events we get that they wern't calling for, or how many events we don't get that they call for? I would be at the rental place 4 times a week.

I would like to know where you could find used tractors for under a grand  because I will take 2! I have been looking for 4 months for a used skid loader or tractor, and the cheapest thing I found that runs is close to 5 grand and it needed work. 

I can keep the grain wagons in a heated building and I think I am going to go that route. 

The community pile is a great idea, but no kidding everyone around here uses bags. They say they charge $ X per bag and they would not know how many bags they used if they went to bulk!  


I think as long as I let the salt dry out somewhat before I load it into the wagons I will be ok. What do you think?

Bossman


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Bossman 92;414066 said:


> Xoopiter, I COULD rent a loader everytime I need one, but do you realize how many small events we get that they wern't calling for, or how many events we don't get that they call for? I would be at the rental place 4 times a week.
> 
> I would like to know where you could find used tractors for under a grand  because I will take 2! I have been looking for 4 months for a used skid loader or tractor, and the cheapest thing I found that runs is close to 5 grand and it needed work.
> 
> ...


It's hard in the winter to let salt dry out. Either the load comes dry or not. The first time you try the wagon I wouldn't fill it right full. You might want to just try one wagon first to see if it works, I have my doubts but I think you would be better to shovel or push the salt into auger. Good luck with whatever you choose. BTW since there is no one selling bulk in your area, any chance of you doing it. It might help you pay for a loader.


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

fernalddude;413948 said:


> Boss Ok thats about 3 skids of product per event. With no equipment to load you must have a v box and think bulk is the way to go because of price or profit. Draw back frozen supplies and no place to off load if you have to dig it out plus time down due to maint probs. You can either find a good landscape company that is open during events or contact local municpal dept for pricing. We run about 12 tons of bagged chemical each pass on our props and sometimes 3 times a day to keep them under control. Although we pay a higher price for bagged product we always have good dry clean product to spread never frozen stock and no clumps to clog. The prob you have might be supplies on hand or the time it takes to resupply the hopper. Higher is better to unload to a rig that sits up 4 feet but to find that in the middle of a storm and keep it safe from damage might be hard to find not to mention where to put it. My prob owners let me put storage bins at location thru the route. I tell them its for reserve so they dont run out and we have plenty of product for worse case. 110 bags of product is not that much you should go thru that in about 45 min plus you got to clean up the mess (used bags) find a dumpster on the prop to dispose of the. One fixed location of resupply cost time and money to return and resupply many locations give you flexibility to go with changing conditions during the storm. In short I had the same prob to justify the cost of using bulk vs bagged and I have found bagged product works for me never have to worry about frozen stock or digging out froz product. Just my 2 cents ........


Maybe i ain't readin this right, Do you go through 36ton of melter in one storm through a meyers tailgate spreader on loading docks small buisness etc. ( acording to your profile)HOW and WHY do you not have a salt bin and at least a v-box you do realize that is almost 1500 bags, if this ain't total BS, What do you charge for this service, i read your post and see your reasoning but still can't make since of it, you are giving this guy advice and you should be reading instead of typing and that is "just my 2 cents"


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

Yep you read it right we run 11 trucks and thats about 1 skid per truck 49 bags a skid. Thats over 1500 that we have done during ice storms that lasted the whole work day. But we just dont do Nacl also CaCl2 and MgCl2. So we switch all the time. Each locker holds 3 ton each and have eight thru the route. We do 10 hotels that are always full and do each parking space when they open up with the BII's because full size rigs wont fit into each stall. Love those but the best are GE locations that we have to drive thru there shops inside the buildings to reach places they need treatment outside like smoking places and outside storage pads next to the buildings that you cant get to and they wont hand shovel. And the best part its ALL CaCl2 payup.Last year we had some spots over 2 inches of ice and just kept dumping Cal and running over it with a skid w/digger bucket to break it up and melt it cuz they had a sea-land that had to be ship that nite. 2 tons of cal and like 5 house of equipment and they even fed us. With a thank you and good nite they just said send us the bill and no problem paid in a week. Love those guys thats not to mention the rest of the facility.This is no B.S. they pay us very well for a special service I have done some of the most crazy places in the world once did a field so the horse's could go out of the barn to run and salted the race track so dust did not blind the horse's (salt collects moister). After almost 30 years of doing this type work I have found a nitch and my main contractor sells this service to customers nothing surprises me anymore he calls we go what ever it is. So for 1500 bags on a bad day is only 150 bags each not that much to me as long as they pay... Anybody can do a big open space we do the stuff everone else wont deal with and we also do the big easy jobs ............


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

*No B.s.*

Just some pics of our nite work so I'am on the level. 1st the bins 18 high 2 rows deep 3 wide plus extra space in the rows over 6000 lbs.X 8 2nd lockers in a row this location has 2 it is the central location for most hotels. 3rd how do we keep them stocked BIG trucks the warehouse keeps me on the top of there list each time it might storm we dont just get a few skids we get ten at a time and go to the front of the line up to the loading dock and off we go. 25 years dealing with the same guys pays off during a storm late nite anytime just a call and they open the doors.4th some BII's ready to load 5th all done clean up and return rented equipment they keep one big rig ready and fueled with the keys in a lock box for me anytime a storm is coming and have trucks ready for my drivers to stop by if we have to move skids or anything else.. So my 2 cents.....:waving:


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

well geez sorry, i think you answered everything, but whats the gun for (thick ice) that 36 ton of calcl2 wont melt


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

We do secure locations like banks and document storage. Sometime we go to not the best neighborhoods little self protection is always good. and we don't hide it. Its amazing how well it works


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Wow, that's alot of bags! Nice setup. My guys would all quit if I made them handle all those bags. Actually I might quit. LOL. We try to even use bulk on the sidewalks, where they don't want calcium. My back hurts from looking at those pictures.


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## SnowPro93 (Oct 25, 2006)

depending on how much property you have, you could build a loading dock type landing thats close the height of the sander, store your bulk on top and it will make it easier to shovel or what not, just an idea....


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## deere615 (Jun 1, 2007)

Would a little dingo or ditch witch reach the top of a truck that might work?


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## FIREMAN Q (Jan 19, 2005)

NETWORK. I think that would be your best bet. Who are some of the bigger companies in your area. Stop by and talk with them. See if you can buy their materials or have yours delivered to their storage yard. Work out some type of deal with them to load you or as time goes on you might be able to load yourself.

This year I will be keeping my salt at the local mulch yard and should be able to load the material myself (for those early mornging storms) in turn I will keep the yard plowed for free. This works the best for me. I don't own a loader of have the room to store it.

good luck


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## mrbrickman (Nov 13, 2006)

yeah i agree find someone with a loader, hell drive around find a farmer with a little tractor with loader arms, see if you can tarp a pile at his place, ask him what he wants for rent and access to the loader whenever you need it

its what id do, network, its cheaper than going out and getting your own right now
and hell if id want to shovel 5500 pounds of salt each event, even if its only to an auger or conveyor


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

Good Lord whoever has those pics of all those bags must have a screw loose I guess I try to work smarter not harder We plow around 100 acres and I havent bought or handled 1 bag of anything if I had to I think I would look into something else to do for the winter


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

I think I just did it. I talked to a buddy of mine ( the neighbor ) who owns a lot 2 miles from the shop with 2 loaders. He said we could work somthing out with storing salt and using the loader 24 hrs! He may want plowing or salting but my prolbems are solved!!!


Bossman


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

fernalddude;413948 said:


> Boss Ok thats about 3 skids of product per event. With no equipment to load you must have a v box and think bulk is the way to go because of price or profit. Draw back frozen supplies and no place to off load if you have to dig it out plus time down due to maint probs. You can either find a good landscape company that is open during events or contact local municpal dept for pricing. We run about 12 tons of bagged chemical each pass on our props and sometimes 3 times a day to keep them under control. Although we pay a higher price for bagged product we always have good dry clean product to spread never frozen stock and no clumps to clog. The prob you have might be supplies on hand or the time it takes to resupply the hopper. Higher is better to unload to a rig that sits up 4 feet but to find that in the middle of a storm and keep it safe from damage might be hard to find not to mention where to put it. My prob owners let me put storage bins at location thru the route. I tell them its for reserve so they dont run out and we have plenty of product for worse case. 110 bags of product is not that much you should go thru that in about 45 min plus you got to clean up the mess (used bags) find a dumpster on the prop to dispose of the. One fixed location of resupply cost time and money to return and resupply many locations give you flexibility to go with changing conditions during the storm. In short I had the same prob to justify the cost of using bulk vs bagged and I have found bagged product works for me never have to worry about frozen stock or digging out froz product. Just my 2 cents ........


you go through 12 ton of bagged per event??? thats going to turn you into an old man fast!!


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Bossman 92;415509 said:


> I think I just did it. I talked to a buddy of mine ( the neighbor ) who owns a lot 2 miles from the shop with 2 loaders. He said we could work somthing out with storing salt and using the loader 24 hrs! He may want plowing or salting but my prolbems are solved!!!
> 
> Bossman


That's good news, hopefully it works out.


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

Bossman 92 good job sound like you got a plan.....SNOWLORD and Jay brown ( where is the pics:crying I think you missed where I said WE its not like I'm unloading 12 tons on my back with no help. I have about 16 guys moving chemicals. AGAIN we switch all the time my customers needs change one minute they ask for salt next its cal but don't kill the grass so off to mag. Tell me one guy with a v box can switch on the fly. Guess you guys don't understand the type of service I provide.On my lots you pull in with just 2 tons of salt and expect to just drive thru your crazy.Guess it's the snow line or the high end props I have but if you don't provide what the customer needs are your done. I cant think of any other provider in this area that does what we do again it a specialty service and they pay out the butt for it so its worth the effort. I get more per pound not ton per pound, if a customer calls for refreeze treatment and its just one slick spot we treat it till it wont freeze again no matter the cost THEY DON'T CARE just get it done. It's time and material on our invoice if it takes 50 guys and 20 trucks they pay period. Its not about ohh I just sit in the truck and drive I like to get out of the truck and get the blood pumping keeps me motivated and alert and if I work hard my guys work hard also.In the end we all win so to those who think ( all those bags must have a screw loose I guess I try to work smarter not harder) when profit to cost ratio comes into play mark up is about 54% any business making over 20% is profitable so I'm doing quite well......


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

Sorry if I offended the point I was making was I feel I provide excellent service as well and trust me my lots are the best in town black all the time I do sell quality also and Im doing it without handling bags to each their own heres an example for you I buy bulk salt for $54 per ton delivered and I charge $200 per ton applied with never touching it with human hands. On walks we use liquid also with no hands on labor. Not sure if thats good or bad compared to everyone else but I have been doing this for alot of years and it seems to work. I truly believe that in any business every time you touch your product with human hands you lose money but to each their own.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

sorry i misunderstood, i thought you unloaded 12 ton of bagged salt (600) bags per event by yourself.wesport wesport wesport wesport


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Jay brown;416391 said:


> sorry i misunderstood, i thought you unloaded 12 ton of bagged salt (600) bags per event by yourself.wesport wesport wesport wesport


If he did he wouldn't have to carry a gun.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

i tried to post 12 weight lifters but wouldn't let me.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Jay brown;416391 said:


> sorry i misunderstood, i thought you unloaded 12 ton of bagged salt (600) bags per event by yourself.wesport wesport wesport wesport


Now there's 12, it took 3 posts though. LOL


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

LMAO


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

UPDATE.... Talked to my buddy just now and he said all is good and they have no prolbem with me using their lot. He did say that EPA has been on them due to aot of dust being in the air from their gravel lot, so he said they are going to call and make sure they have no problems with me storing salt.

I have never heard of somthing like this, what do you guys think should be woried?


Bossman


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## gene gls (Dec 24, 1999)

Bossman 92;414066 said:


> Xoopiter, I COULD rent a loader everytime I need one, but do you realize how many small events we get that they wern't calling for, or how many events we don't get that they call for? I would be at the rental place 4 times a week.
> 
> I would like to know where you could find used tractors for under a grand  because I will take 2! I have been looking for 4 months for a used skid loader or tractor, and the cheapest thing I found that runs is close to 5 grand and it needed work.
> 
> ...


Salt will absorb moisture out of the air and turn hard. Twice I had to shovel out my v-box. Now I use it or unloade it if I run straight salt. I prefer a sand/salt mix.


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

EPA requires you to contain the runoff and treat it so it does not go into the ground water. So if you do it by the regs you must have a way to collect the run off (base cover) be able to pump run off into contained unit and be able to treat it so the parts per million (PPM) are low enough to meet the discharge rate here is a quote(Structural measures are engineered systems and controls that include fixed and permanent enclosures, impermeable storage pads, waterproof covers, _berms or curbing for containment and drainage, discharge systems,_ etc. Non-structural measures are best management practices or procedural controls for pile construction, pile configuration, pile shaping, pile covering, cover maintenance, housekeeping, salt reclamation, storm water runoff management, etc.) http://www.saltinstitute.org/pubstat/wolf-bertram.html So its not like you can just pile it up on the ground. Another reason I use bags.
40 CFR Part 122.26.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

I was planning on building some sort of bay with 3 sides and a roof, would I still have to treat the runoff? 

I can't belive everyone who stores bulk salt treats the runoff. Hopefully there is a way to make this work.  

Bossman


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

UPDATE.... Thanks for all of your ideas I just got off the phone with my buddys dad and he said I can store my salt at their lot, and use either the backhoe or the loader whenever I want. In trade I will sand their lot when ever it snows. Oh yea, they will buy and store the sand.

Bossman


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## JUSTIMAGINE (Oct 7, 2007)

*Just A Thought*

You know why not just pay someone 100-150 per event to bring their loader out and put a couple scoops in your spreader. It should not be that hard to find someone to do that for you. We pay our depot loader 75hr to sit their and load trucks until we tell them to go home. If your bulk piling your salt make sure you tarp it to protect it from rain. Not much worse than heading down the highway with a load of wet salt in your spreader only to find it has frozen solid on the drive from wind chill.
Good Luck


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

You are not understanding what I am saying. The closest place that sells bulk salt is about an hour away, and they are only open 9-5. I will need at least 2 loads to do my route, so that leaves me with the only option of storeing my own. Nobody around here uses bulk, so there is nobody to buddy up with, they all like bags. Now I have a place lined up to store salt and they are letting me use their loaders whenever I need them. In return I will put down about 3 tons of sand in their entrances and high traffic areas when it snows. 

Bossman


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

Boss i understand the problem yes most guys don't do it by the regs I just quoted the regs on storage Thats the prob with bulk and having the epa involved. Most just build a place that they can pile it up and cover it and move it with some kind of loader, it's out of the way and nobody ever looks at it. But the feds treat it under the clean water act. Find the local municipal lot and ask what they have to do to meet the regs...


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Hey FERN, I know what you are saying, and I understand, I was refering to JUSTIMAGINE, I think he was trying to start somthing. Thanks for your thoughts. 

Bossman


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