# Holder PTO problem



## Hill town (Aug 25, 2017)

I have a Holder 4.74 new to me. The pto doesn't seem to work. Does anyone have any info about these machines. Where I could get a service manual? Of course nothing is open for days still holder takes off almost 2 weeks for Christmas. It does have power to, and beyond the pto switch. I would like to see whats inside the pto gear box but the manual I have doesn't show any internals.

Thanks


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Hill town said:


> I have a Holder 4.74 new to me. The pto doesn't seem to work. Does anyone have any info about these machines. Where I could get a service manual? Of course nothing is open for days still holder takes off almost 2 weeks for Christmas. It does have power to, and beyond the pto switch. I would like to see whats inside the pto gear box but the manual I have doesn't show any internals.
> 
> Thanks


What year is the machine that you are using? The link below, might help you. If you are asking about a service manual that tells you how to fix your equipment, the company that I am working for, has had holders for over 30 years, and we have not got a service manual.

If you are new to Holder tractor's you will find out very quickly that parts are extremely expensive, and that the machines are not the most reliable. Also the new ones since they have even more electronics, makes it even harder to diagnose without the rexroth ( not correct) diagnostic tool.

Wish you all the luck in figuring out the PTO problem.

http://www.holdertractors.com/uploads/tx_bfactordokumente/149969_ET-Liste_C4.74_C4.80.pdf


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm curious as to what the weak points on the Holder are, as I just bought a Belos (now Karcher) machine similar to a Holder. 

They are different, obviously, but if you have a wheelmotor problem, and they use the same wheelmotor, that would be something I could look out for.


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## Hill town (Aug 25, 2017)

Thanks for the info. I have the spare parts list already. Cant remember the year but they only made this machine for a few years 2006 about. I know ir can be figured out and fixed without the manual but sometimes it saves alot pf hassles while trying to figure out what is what.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

What are the symptoms?

I've never even seen a Holder in person, but I'll speculate a bit....

From what I could tell from the operator's manual online

http://www.holdertractors.com/uploads/tx_bfactordokumente/BAL_C4.74_en_03.pdf

It's a hydraulically controlled clutch. From the manual, you engage and disengage by flipping a switch, so the switch must operate a solenoid.

It appears there is a light on the switch, which will presumably tell you when it is activated. Does it go on?

Starting from the other end, do you have hydraulic pressure to the clutch?
If so, you have a problem internal to the clutch.

If not, find the solenoid valve that controls the pressure to/from the clutch and make sure you are getting power and ground to it when the switch is actuated.


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

We have 5 holder 992's and they have the electronic pto switch, one of them had to get shipped to the dealer to get fixed because the pto was almost always staying on and making alot of noise. 

So when the switch wasn't the problem, they had to split the machine(which is a big job),the clutch was seized so they had to un-seize parts of the clutch and had to replace some other parts.

5 grand later it was fixed, but the pto on those machines, gets essentially gets "dumped" and engages the pto almost instantly, its such a harsh engagement that it almost shuts the machine off. I don't know why they couldn't have it engage slower.

The old holders pto ( c500 to 9700) was engaged via cable, so you could engage the pto slowly without worrying about damaging the pto clutch.


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## Hill town (Aug 25, 2017)

I havnt dug into it yet its been -30c at night and -20c in the day. yes its hydraulically operated. power past the switch. havnt checked the solenoid yet, hell it may just be the wire from switch to it. pto shaft spins free so no problem there. Mine has an accumulator to help ease the transition to power


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

A fellow Canuck ? :canadaflag:


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## GrassManKzoo (Oct 8, 2016)

UpNorthMowing said:


> We have 5 holder 992's and they have the electronic pto switch, one of them had to get shipped to the dealer to get fixed because the pto was almost always staying on and making alot of noise.
> 
> So when the switch wasn't the problem, they had to split the machine(which is a big job),the clutch was seized so they had to un-seize parts of the clutch and had to replace some other parts.
> 
> ...


:waving:


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

UpNorthMowing said:


> We have 5 holder 992's and they have the electronic pto switch, one of them had to get shipped to the dealer to get fixed because the pto was almost always staying on and making alot of noise.
> 
> So when the switch wasn't the problem, they had to split the machine(which is a big job),the clutch was seized so they had to un-seize parts of the clutch and had to replace some other parts.
> 
> ...


You could add a needle valve that restricts flow to the clutch and is free flow away from it.


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Aerospace Eng said:


> You could add a needle valve that restricts flow to the clutch and is free flow away from it.


Yeah that is a possible fix, but should have been addressed, when the machine was introduced, or they could have kept the mechanical engagement, that worked decently for the previous 30 years.


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## Garry at Ottawa (May 9, 2020)

My 500c Holder (late 80s type 414) has a manual pto engagement - fix job very likely involves access into the gear case - yikes! tractor not as valuable as fix - end of line - time to turn it into a flower pot


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Does the lever go directly into/onto the gearbox?
Could it just be a linkage?


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## Garry at Ottawa (May 9, 2020)

Linkage not the problem, unfortunately.


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## kitmag (Dec 27, 2021)

Hill town said:


> I have a Holder 4.74 new to me. The pto doesn't seem to work. Does anyone have any info about these machines. Where I could get a service manual? Of course nothing is open for days still holder takes off almost 2 weeks for Christmas. It does have power to, and beyond the pto switch. I would like to see whats inside the pto gear box but the manual I have doesn't show any internals.
> 
> Thanks


Did you solve this problem? If so , What was the fix ? I have a C240 that has this issue PTO will not turn on , but has power at the switch and leaving the switch


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## Hill town (Aug 25, 2017)

Had a blown donut style lovejoy connector as well as a broken flange adapter. My advice with any holder is sell it and never look back. Maybe nice when new but nothing but problems and ridiculously over priced parts. $1000 for a throttle cable, $1000 for a couple engine mounts, $500 for the lovejoy, **** them!! And that was a few years ago can't imagine now. Sourced all parts off allibaba or locally and fixed for $300. Run, run as fast as you can.


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