# 2019 f350 6.2 gas dash shutting off running plow



## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

We have 2 new trucks. Gas motors. Snowex plows model 8611. Almost everytime we run the plow, once you release the button the dash at times will shut off. Air, radio, cluster will shut off at times. Who else is having these issues with their plows. What plow are you running? Ford blaming snowex, snowed blaming ford. Also have heard hiniker has this issue as well.. just trying to get more info to bring back to dealers of issue


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

It's a known issue

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/ford-f-250-2018-issues-while-plowing.176147/

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/20...-when-raising-plow-fisher-mm2-sd-plow.172172/


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Didn't one of the Ford slappies say this was not Ford's fault, but the plow manufacturer's fault?

@1olddogtwo

If it isn't Ford's fault, why is the common denominator Ford...or Chebbie?


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

Yeah not fords fault but it happens with every manufacturer. Doesnt happen on any of my 2015/2016 gas trucks just on my new ones. Plow prep package on all of them.. my dealer wants $1400 each truck to put the dual battery setup in them... what a joke


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

PYS1 said:


> Yeah not fords fault but it happens with every manufacturer. Doesnt happen on any of my 2015/2016 gas trucks just on my new ones. Plow prep package on all of them.. my dealer wants $1400 each truck to put the dual battery setup in them... what a joke


Haven't seen anyone complaining about this issue with RAMs yet. Only Furds and Chebbies.


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

Maybe our next trucks will be rams.. but that's not helping my issues now lol


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

PYS1 said:


> my dealer wants $1400 each truck to put the dual battery setup in them...


WOW!


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

cwren2472 said:


> WOW!


Now they sharpened their pencil.. $900 each truck... factory ordered it wouldve been $250 each truck. I know this isn't the fix for the issue.. it helps the issue but ford needs to step up and actually fix it


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

PYS1 said:


> factory ordered it wouldve been $250 each truck.


Ouch - considering the cost of the battery itself, that's pretty darn cheap.

Sadly, the consensus thus far seems to be that the second battery is the most effective fix. I wouldn't hold your breath for a fix from Ford.


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

Just talked with snowex rep. His diesel went in for reprogramming bulletins recalls and what not. Came back and was doing the exact same issue the gas trucks have. Sounds like ford might be trying to fix the issue now. But itll probably only be for the diesels lol


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

PYS1 said:


> Now they sharpened their pencil.. $900 each truck... factory ordered it wouldve been $250 each truck. I know this isn't the fix for the issue.. it helps the issue but ford needs to step up and actually fix it


One of the reasons I stopped purchasing Fords (new). Total lack of dealer support.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Didn't one of the Ford slappies say this was not Ford's fault, but the plow manufacturer's fault?
> 
> @1olddogtwo
> 
> If it isn't Ford's fault, why is the common denominator Ford...or Chebbie?


You are totally correct sir.....mm

If go out and put a B&W 30,000 lb on GN hitch a 1500 series truck with a towing package..... And the truck won't handle it, I'm going to blame B&W.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> You are totally correct sir.....mm
> 
> If go out and put a B&W 30,000 lb on GN hitch a 1500 series truck with a towing package..... And the truck won't handle it, I'm going to blame B&W.


Understood


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Seriously, who in the hell would make a 30,000-lb hitch for a 1500 truck.

If plow manufacturers can't make a plow for a vehicle they shouldn't offer it.

If I buy a square radio for a rectangular hole, is the manufacturers fault for not having the right dashboard?


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

1olddogtwo said:


> Seriously, who in the hell would make a 30,000-lb hitch for a 1500 truck.
> 
> If plow manufacturers can't make a plow for a vehicle they shouldn't offer it.
> 
> ...


So what your saying is it's not fords problem?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

PYS1 said:


> So what your saying is it's not fords problem?


Still haven't figured out if Pat is screwing with everyone, but it most certainly is Ford's and GM's problem. They designed a truck with a package that will knowingly apply a high electrical load to their truck. This is not only an issue with plows but also winches and likely other attachments.

It wasn't an issue in the past and isn't an issue with Ram, it is strictly a programming issue with the ECU or ECM or whatever stupid computer is causing it to blink out due to a possible "overcharge" situation.

The big question is why doesn't it happen to every truck with a plow for those model years?


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Still haven't figured out if Pat is screwing with everyone, but it most certainly is Ford's and GM's problem. They designed a truck with a package that will knowingly apply a high electrical load to their truck. This is not only an issue with plows but also winches and likely other attachments.
> 
> It wasn't an issue in the past and isn't an issue with Ram, it is strictly a programming issue with the ECU or ECM or whatever stupid computer is causing it to blink out due to a possible "overcharge" situation.
> 
> The big question is why doesn't it happen to every truck with a plow for those model years?


My dealer rep has been using his truck for plowing for 3 years now and after the reflash from dealer hes now having issues...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

PYS1 said:


> My dealer rep has been using his truck for plowing for 3 years now and after the reflash from dealer hes now having issues...


Typical Ford...reflash solves everything except the new problems it causes.

I had enough of reflashing every other week when I owned 6.0s.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

So we have 2 new 2018 and a 2019 F-250's with Boss plows and no issues. I know of another guy with 3 new Fords 18's as well also with boss plows and no issues, salters yes but plows no.

Anyways, could this not be a plow brand issue? I see snowex, anyone else having issues with other brand plows?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

DeVries said:


> So we have 2 new 2018 and a 2019 F-250's with Boss plows and no issues. I know of another guy with 3 new Fords 18's as well also with boss plows and no issues, salters yes but plows no.
> 
> Anyways, could this not be a plow brand issue? I see snowex, anyone else having issues with other brand plows?


Pretty sure there's been some Fisher guys. I know DD.

OP said Hickenloopers are having problems?


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Pretty sure there's been some Fisher guys. I know DD.
> 
> OP said Hickenloopers are having problems?


Yes hinikers have issues as well. A friend of ours has a 2019 with new hiniker having same issue


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## Chris33 (Jul 23, 2018)

I bought my truck and plow new...2017 Gas, single battery, with plow Package and Western fleet flex. It is shutting down heater and dash. I have not taken it in yet. Not happy Ford!!


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

DeVries said:


> So we have 2 new 2018 and a 2019 F-250's with Boss plows and no issues. I know of another guy with 3 new Fords 18's as well also with boss plows and no issues, salters yes but plows no.
> 
> Anyways, could this not be a plow brand issue? I see snowex, anyone else having issues with other brand plows?


Boss did issue a bulletin regarding the same issue so they arent immune


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

cwren2472 said:


> Boss did issue a bulletin regarding the same issue so they arent immune


Did boss have a fix or just a bulletin that's there is an issue?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

PYS1 said:


> Did boss have a fix or just a bulletin that's there is an issue?


They merely referenced the Ford TSB


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

My experience is that Ford puts the lowest power battery in new vehicles. If you’re having issues, try a new battery with the highest power you can buy. May alleviate the issue somewhat. Nothing to lose really since you’ll need a new battery at some point.


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

cwren2472 said:


> They merely referenced the Ford TSB


Gotcha


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

I'll double check but I believe it has a 750cca in it..


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

PYS1 said:


> I'll double check but I believe it has a 750cca in it..


I use a 1000cca AGM; nice and strong even below zero. I don't have the electrical issues you have (have a 2011 F350), so I didn't buy it for that reason.


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

Okay. Anybody else tried a bigger battery before doing dual kit?


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

PYS1 said:


> Okay. Anybody else tried a bigger battery before doing dual kit?


the link below has a few comments about upping the battery size

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1466428-snow-plow-wiring-2.html


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Once again can somebody explain to me how this is Ford's problem?

You guys have read my other posts/threads you'll see my point.

Plow manufacturers have to get on the same page as manufacturers of vehicles. Plow manufacturers do the bare bone minimums.

Most are using the same technology from 10-15 years ago. Are vehicle manufacturers supposed to lag behind because of a small percentage of vehicle sold become plow trucks, end of that small percentage a small percentage has the problem.

As I said in another thread, I had one truck with two plows and only the one plow would cause the problem.

Think capacitors


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

1olddogtwo said:


> Think capacitors


Ok...


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Ok...
> 
> View attachment 201248


https://www.oreillyauto.com/flux-capacitor


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

1olddogtwo said:


> Once again can somebody explain to me how this is Ford's problem?


Sure. As you said, the plow hasn't changed in 20 years. It previously worked fine on all plows previously. Ford changed their truck in 2017 and now the Ford truck has a problem with the plow that still works fine on all other trucks including Ford's own _prior_ to 2017. Ergo, it's DouglasDynamic's fault. Huh?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

1olddogtwo said:


> https://www.oreillyauto.com/flux-capacitor


Figures that some buzzkill lawyer made them add

"*Non-Functional Item Displayed For Entertainment Purposes Only"*


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

My first experience the problem 2011, I believe you know the thread I'm referring to. You should know that.



Chevy's been having the problems also for years, and sporadic reports of RAM. 

It's only going to get worse. Has anyone verified that the OP plow have been installed correctly following Ford's recommendations?


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

cwren2472 said:


> Figures that some buzzkill lawyer made them add
> 
> "*Non-Functional Item Displayed For Entertainment Purposes Only"*


Probably people out there that might think it would actually work! Enjoying some artificial stimulants


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Ours are plain Jane XL models. Maybe it's all the extra options drawing to much current for the alternator and battery to keep up. Reading the post on the forum those vehicles have heated seats and steering wheel. 
Still what does it take to put a good battery in from the factory.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> Once again can somebody explain to me how this is Ford's problem?
> 
> You guys have read my other posts/threads you'll see my point.
> 
> ...


Yes


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> Sure. As you said, the plow hasn't changed in 20 years. It previously worked fine on all plows previously. Ford changed their truck in 2017 and now the Ford truck has a problem with the plow that still works fine on all other trucks including Ford's own _prior_ to 2017. Ergo, it's DouglasDynamic's fault. Huh?


Not true, years ago plows used to pull 80 to 100amp, nowadays, 180 to 240 amps.

Plows have gotten bigger, heavier and faster, plow mtr have done anything except suck more and more power out of the trucks.

Nothing burns my bottom more than my heated seat blinks out for a mil-a-second !!!!!!!!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> Nothing burns my bottom more than my heated seat blinks out for a mil-a-second !!!!!!!!


Not even bad Mexican?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Still haven't figured out if Pat is screwing with everyone


Never,

Hehehehehehehhe


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not even bad Mexican?


Okay, you got me on that one.

And gas station hot dogs


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

1olddogtwo said:


> Not true, years ago plows used to pull 80 to 100amp, nowadays, 180 to 240 amps.
> 
> Plows have gotten bigger, heavier and faster, plow mtr have done anything except suck more and more power out of the trucks.
> 
> Nothing burns my bottom more than my heated seat blinks out for a mil-a-second !!!!!!!!


Older 100 amps

Multiflex 250 amps

You also noticed the higher relief setting, the higher the settings, the higher the amp draw, once the pump dead headeds, all the amps, or the draw has to go somewhere, the truck has absorb it and protect itself.

Perhaps, the pressure relief is set to high on some plows. We've seen plenty of those out of adjustment.


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## JoeRagMan (Nov 5, 2018)

I believe the problems started when manufacturers (truck) started using the ECM to control the charging rate instead of a regulator which was part of the alternator. A truck was bought with a plow prep package should be designed to handle the electrical requirements of the plow. The easiest solution appears to be adding either a battery with more capacity or a second battery. If you watch a video of a new vehicle's charging system being tested with a scope, charge rate is pulsed several times per second by the ECM. Too much technology!!


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

That's m


JoeRagMan said:


> I believe the problems started when manufacturers (truck) started using the ECM to control the charging rate instead of a regulator which was part of the alternator. A truck was bought with a plow prep package should be designed to handle the electrical requirements of the plow. The easiest solution appears to be adding either a battery with more capacity or a second battery. If you watch a video of a new vehicle's charging system being tested with a scope, charge rate is pulsed several times per second by the ECM. Too much technology!!


That's my point.

We as consumers want all the sweet bells and whistles, heated seats, wiper blades, GPS, massaging seats, etc.....

Plows are essentially dinosaurs.

I wonder those with LED plow light are having the same problems?

2nd point, why do we automatically rule out the plow manufacturer/eqm?

There are so many variables that would cause such a high amperage draw such as corrosion or poor connections, undersized wiring..... But no, it's the trucks fault.

I truly think the issues on both sides, but more so on the plow manufacturer.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> Older 100 amps
> 
> Multiflex 250 amps
> 
> ...


Again, if it was a plow manufacturer's problem it would occur on every truck with a plow or winch installed. But it isn't.

Plus, it isn't only Ford.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Again, if it was a plow manufacturer's problem it would occur on every truck with a plow or winch installed. But it isn't.
> 
> Plus, it isn't only Ford.


Did you miss this part

There are so many variables that would cause such a high amperage draw such as corrosion or poor connections, undersized wiring..... But no, it's the trucks fault.

Perhaps, the pressure relief is set to high on some plows. We've seen plenty of those out of adjustment.

Just saying....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> Did you miss this part
> 
> There are so many variables that would cause such a high amperage draw such as corrosion or poor connections, undersized wiring..... But no, it's the trucks fault.
> 
> ...


No

Why aren't RAMs having problems?


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## JoeRagMan (Nov 5, 2018)

First plow truck I used was the company IH 3/4 ton, 4 speed, no ps, with a frozen pilot bearing( had to shut off engine to shift into 1st gear). Crank windows, no a/c, vinyl bench. Meyer plow. Manufacturers (both truck and plow) need to build equipment that’s durable and reliable instead of coddling the owner.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JoeRagMan said:


> First plow truck I used was the company IH 3/4 ton, 4 speed, no ps, with a frozen pilot bearing( had to shut off engine to shift into 1st gear). Crank windows, no a/c, vinyl bench. Meyer plow. Manufacturers (both truck and plow) need to build equipment that's durable and reliable instead of coddling the owner.


Valves on the drivetrain hump?


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## JoeRagMan (Nov 5, 2018)

Why aren't RAMs having problems?[/QUOTE]
Because of their new marketing pitch;
"If you can't Dodge it, Ram it!"


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## JoeRagMan (Nov 5, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Valves on the drivetrain hump?


No, don't think so, I remember it had a 4way joy stick bolted under the instrument panel.


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

1olddogtwo said:


> My first experience the problem 2011, I believe you know the thread I'm referring to. You should know that.
> 
> Chevy's been having the problems also for years, and sporadic reports of RAM.
> 
> It's only going to get worse. Has anyone verified that the OP plow have been installed correctly following Ford's recommendations?


Yup. It's been checked out multiple times to be sure it's how ford says it..
So i guess maybe I'm not following you. What should the plow manufactures do different? We have 2 2015 trucks and 2 2016 trucks also. We have never had a single issue with the same plows on those trucks. Single battery and same alt amperage with the snow plow prep kit. Chevy saw the issue and fixed it...


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No
> 
> Why aren't RAMs having problems?





Mark Oomkes said:


> No
> 
> Why aren't RAMs having problems?


Numbers thing

Ford sells millions

GM sells thousands

Ram sells hundreds


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

Just to be safe. How does ford say to install it and I will triple check they did it right tomorrow..


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

1olddogtwo said:


> Think capacitors


A capacitor on the plow would solve these issues (you could run a plow on a single 20 amp fuse), as you would not significantly draw on the vehicle system. However, when I looked into it, it would take about $2K per plow, which I think would be a prohibitive increase.

You could also reduce the electrical load by going back to underhood pumps.
I'm not advocating this, but it is one solution to the electrical load issue.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

PYS1 said:


> Just to be safe. How does ford say to install it and I will triple check they did it right tomorrow..


I don't think you'll find anything from Ford regarding the installation because it's not a Ford issue according to them. These are the basic installation instructions if you want to double check how yours was done

http://library.snowexproducts.com/snowexproducts/pdffiles/52238.03_121516.pdf


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

They actually do. I'm on the road all day, but it's located in the builder guide somewhere. It's part of the BMS.

Of the 30/40 plows I've installed on Ford's, I've always gone to the battery, not Ford's recommendations.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Aerospace Eng said:


> A capacitor on the plow would solve these issues (you could run a plow on a single 20 amp fuse), as you would not significantly draw on the vehicle system. However, when I looked into it, it would take about $2K per plow, which I think would be a prohibitive increase.
> 
> You could also reduce the electrical load by going back to underhood pumps.
> I'm not advocating this, but it is one solution to the electrical load issue.


It was in good humor. Some picked up on it.

From an engineering standpoint am I incorrect in any of my assertions about amp draw?

Ford offers a PTO that you can use stationary or while moving......3rd option.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

1olddogtwo said:


> They actually do. I'm on the road all day, but it's located in the builder guide somewhere. It's part of the BMS.
> 
> Of the 30/40 plows I've installed on Ford's, I've always gone to the battery, not Ford's recommendations.


you are correct......this is from the Boss website, but it has the (supposed) Ford bulletin with the updates the Ford dealer should do to fix the issue. Applies to other plow brands too, of course

https://content.bossplow.com/content/servicecenter/documents/sv134.pdf

Ford gas tsb

https://static.oemdtc.com/TSB/17-0043.pdf


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Aerospace Eng said:


> A capacitor on the plow would solve these issues (you could run a plow on a single 20 amp fuse), as you would not significantly draw on the vehicle system. However, when I looked into it, it would take about $2K per plow, which I think would be a prohibitive increase.
> 
> You could also reduce the electrical load by going back to underhood pumps.
> I'm not advocating this, but it is one solution to the electrical load issue.


While I dont doubt your capacitor fix would work, it seems like it would be a much cheaper fix on Ford's part to prevent the alternator from outputting the voltage spike that causes the whole issue in the first place and mandate that a second battery be included with the plow prep to meet the additional current needs instead of trying to cheat the system with their funky alternator shenanigans (that's right, I called shenanigans.)

The OP stated that the second battery from the factory was $250 - I'll wager that is cheaper than any other option on the window sticker of what was probably a $60-70k vehicle.

Edit: I might be wrong as it looks like the floor liner set only lists for $175
https://accessories.ford.com/interior/floor-mats/kit-floor-contour-mat-11500.html


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Aerospace Eng said:


> A capacitor on the plow would solve these issues (you could run a plow on a single 20 amp fuse), as you would not significantly draw on the vehicle system. .


Totally unrelated to this discussion but what is the expected cycle time for that capacitor to charge between operations of the plow?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

If it isn't a Ford issue, why are Ford dealers fixing it?


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

Mark Oomkes said:


> If it isn't a Ford issue, why are Ford dealers fixing it?


seems to be hit or miss.....some posters on here and the Ford board say their dealer says it's a plow problem, some say there's no problem, some get it fixed......


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

seville009 said:


> seems to be hit or miss.....some posters on here and the Ford board say their dealer says it's a plow problem, some say there's no problem, some get it fixed......


The TSB officially says that any vehicle after 2017 should automatically be "fixed" with the latest updates - and yet they aren't. My guess is that Ford came up with something they label a "fix" whether or not it works so they have a position to stand afterward when the problem still occurs

"Well, we devised a fix, so if the plow is still doing it then it must be the plow...."


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> The TSB officially says that any vehicle after 2017 should automatically be "fixed" with the latest updates - and yet they aren't. My guess is that Ford came up with something they label a "fix" whether or not it works so they have a position to stand afterward when the problem still occurs
> 
> "Well, we devised a fix, so if the plow is still doing it then it must be the plow...."


Ford has a terrible track record when it comes to "reflashes", starting with the 6.0. They were throwing out new flashes without fulling testing them, so a flash to fix one problem would cause another problem, etc. Then they had different flashes for different ranges of build dates of which they had crappy records.

My '04 550 did not fall within the proper build date range for the planetary gear TSB. But it had the same problem as those that did fall within the proper date range.

I dealt with this same BS with a software company back in the early '00s. They were adding functions almost daily that people asked for without testing them. Then another problem would pop up in a function that had been working just fine.

It seems to me to be a simple fix...use the same programming they did prior to the issues.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

cwren2472 said:


> Totally unrelated to this discussion but what is the expected cycle time for that capacitor to charge between operations of the plow?


Most capacitors would be capable of running the plow through many operations before they were depleted. For example, the capacitor I was looking at was 22 lb, and stored 85kJ of energy, of which 45kJ was in the useful voltage range (10V or higher), which would equate to about 40 lifting operations of a heavy plow.

The time to recharge after a single lifting operation would depend on the weight of the plow, but probably about 10 seconds after a lifting operation on a heavy plow, and much less after a turning operation.

Here's the math....
To lift a plow weighing 450 kg (about 1000 lb) 25 cm (about 10 inches), takes 1100 Joules.

20 Amps and 12.5 V would be 250W. 1100/250 = 4.4 seconds. If the average rate is 125W (charging slows down as the capacitor voltage and the truck voltage become the same), 8.8 seconds.

Looking at it another way, if the pump motor takes 250 amps to run (3000W at 12V), then every second of running would take 12.5 seconds to recharge at 20 amps. Generally, by the time you have backed up after lifting the plow, you would be recharged fully.


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Most capacitors would be capable of running the plow through many operations before they were depleted. For example, the capacitor I was looking at was 22 lb, and stored 85kJ of energy, of which 45kJ was in the useful voltage range (10V or higher), which would equate to about 40 lifting operations of a heavy plow.
> 
> The time to recharge after a single lifting operation would depend on the weight of the plow, but probably about 10 seconds after a lifting operation on a heavy plow, and much less after a turning operation.
> 
> ...


Hmm.. that is some interesting stuff. Thanks for that insite to the capacitor, But you said it was like $2k to have that installed on my plows? Vs. If ford would just make the dual battery part of the plow prep kit that we already spent almost $1k on there wouldnt be an issue at all.. not just ford I guess all manufacturers.. or snowex or whatever brand that also knows that there is this issue should have the dual battery part of there plow setup and have those parts on hand... it goes both ways.. either way right now the consumer of the product is getting shafted in the end until somebody comes up with an actual cost effective solution.. next trucks might be rams lol


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

PYS1 said:


> next trucks might be rams lol


@Mark Oomkes just spilled his coffee jumping up in victory. He might send you the cleaning bill.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> @Mark Oomkes just spilled his coffee jumping up in victory. He might send you the cleaning bill.


He did?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> He did?


Who did?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

PYS1 said:


> But you said it was like $2k to have that installed on my plows?


I think that was hypothetical only - I don't think @Aerospace Eng was actually offering to do that upgrade for anyone for that price. Unless he was really bored and in Minnesota anyway perhaps.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Do I think dual battery is a good option...... I don't know.

My personal experience has been with diesels with dual batteries already.

Personally I put in the largest single battery you can. In many ways a battery is similar to a capacitor in that it stores electrical power.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

cwren2472 said:


> I think that was hypothetical only - I don't think @Aerospace Eng was actually offering to do that upgrade for anyone for that price. Unless he was really bored and in Minnesota anyway perhaps.


I actually am in MN at the moment (since Friday AM), but am leaving today.

I might do a prototype at that price, during the summer. The price was based on the smallest KSM module that KoldBan sells ($1200), plus some engineering and profit. At my estimated $2K price, a profit would only be made if someone was making systems by the hundreds.

The KSM Module is designed to replace one battery in a multiple battery vehicle and provide starting power even if the other battery/batteries go dead.

https://issuu.com/winsby_inc/docs/kbn-ksm-br-final-mhr__1_?e=1330433/56313185



1olddogtwo said:


> Do I think dual battery is a good option...... I don't know.
> 
> My personal experience has been with diesels with dual batteries already.
> 
> Personally I put in the largest single battery you can. In many ways a battery is similar to a capacitor in that it stores electrical power.


In many ways it is similar, but there are fundamental differences as well. A capacitor is really at its best in short, high amperage bursts. The module I was looking at produces 47kW power, whereas a 1000 CCA battery is 8kW or so. On the other hand, a 35 amp-hour battery stores about 1500 kJ of energy versus 85kJ or so.

Thus, if you want to run keep-alive circuits, listen to the radio or leave lights on with the engine off, etc. then the battery is a much better storage device. However, if the application is to start a vehicle, or run high demand loads for a few seconds at a time, then the capacitor has a battery beat easily.


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## extremepusher (Aug 24, 2011)

We have 2 2017 ford f250 6.2 gas with 8' boss's and 8'ebling's on them. Doing plowing they will start out I 3rd gear and slam hard into reverse. This will just start all a sudden , then continue for a couple hrs or just a few minutes. Happens more the colder it is, can not happen for 2 or 3 snow events, Never happens with in the off season pulling trailers. Lastest thing Ford engineers whats us to do is, the night before the next event, they want us to come to the dealership and get a computer from them to plug in and try to record what happens. But there also already mentioning doing of doing the DUAL BATTERY UPGRADE...… to solve it..


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

extremepusher said:


> We have 2 2017 ford f250 6.2 gas with 8' boss's and 8'ebling's on them. Doing plowing they will start out I 3rd gear and slam hard into reverse. This will just start all a sudden , then continue for a couple hrs or just a few minutes. Happens more the colder it is, can not happen for 2 or 3 snow events, Never happens with in the off season pulling trailers. Lastest thing Ford engineers whats us to do is, the night before the next event, they want us to come to the dealership and get a computer from them to plug in and try to record what happens. But there also already mentioning doing of doing the DUAL BATTERY UPGRADE...… to solve it..


Did I read right that you are saying that while driving forward the truck spontaneously goes into reverse?

That seems to be a somewhat more serious issue than the radio blinking off...


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

cwren2472 said:


> Did I read right that you are saying that while driving forward the truck spontaneously goes into reverse?
> 
> That seems to be a somewhat more serious issue than the radio blinking off...


I think he's saying that it just shifts hard going into reverse, not that it's shifting into reverse by itself - that's how I read it at least.

My 2011 F350 always shifts hard going into reverse when plowing; never any issues. Tranny temp stays around 185 when plowing. So.... the hard shift seems normal.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

seville009 said:


> I think he's saying that it just shifts hard going into reverse, not that it's shifting into reverse by itself - that's how I read it at least.
> 
> My 2011 F350 always shifts hard going into reverse when plowing; never any issues. Tranny temp stays around 185 when plowing. So.... the hard shift seems normal.


Ooooh, phew! That would make more sense then.


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## extremepusher (Aug 24, 2011)

What im saying is that when you put it in drive it starts in third not first. When you shift into reverse it shifts hard.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

PYS1 said:


> We have 2 new trucks. Gas motors. Snowex plows model 8611. Almost everytime we run the plow, once you release the button the dash at times will shut off. Air, radio, cluster will shut off at times. Who else is having these issues with their plows. What plow are you running? Ford blaming snowex, snowed blaming ford. Also have heard hiniker has this issue as well.. just trying to get more info to bring back to dealers of issue


i have a 2019 6.2 for with the snowex 8010
same thing except if i cycle my plow all the way left or right to a forced stop, thats when it does it...cycle, bump...dash blip.
it doesnt do it if i just move the plow and release the button.
It's definitely snowex
if the plow isnt hooked it up it doesnt do it.... dont know how snowex could blame that on ford.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

DeVries said:


> So we have 2 new 2018 and a 2019 F-250's with Boss plows and no issues. I know of another guy with 3 new Fords 18's as well also with boss plows and no issues, salters yes but plows no.
> 
> Anyways, could this not be a plow brand issue? I see snowex, anyone else having issues with other brand plows?


see i havent heard of anyone with boss/ford issues either. only snowex.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

tpendagast said:


> see i havent heard of anyone with boss/ford issues either. only snowex.


Did you read the bulletin from Boss to Ford????

Are you reading anything beyond the first post?

This is the second thread you've responded where someone already posted what you did or in this case, you're just wrong.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/radio-problem-new-truck-plow.159983/

Even Grandview knew and he hasn't been here in years


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

DeVries said:


> So we have 2 new 2018 and a 2019 F-250's with Boss plows and no issues. I know of another guy with 3 new Fords 18's as well also with boss plows and no issues, salters yes but plows no.
> 
> Anyways, could this not be a plow brand issue? I see snowex, anyone else having issues with other brand plows?


Boss salters? Or other brands?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No
> 
> Why aren't RAMs having problems?


https://www.plowsite.com/threads/ram-boss-electrical-issues.172841/


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/radio-problem-new-truck-plow.159983/
> 
> Even Grandview knew and he hasn't been here in years


WOW...so it isn't just SnowEx???


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Ha


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/ram-boss-electrical-issues.172841/


The OP's issue was a dead battery/electrical system. The other guy never came back to say what his problem was.


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## Chris33 (Jul 23, 2018)

As I said before... I have a 2017 Ford Gas/Western Pro Plus...both bought new and has the problem. I have a 2017 Ford Gas/Boss v and VBX800 at work and both bought new... also has the problem.

The common... Ford


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Chris33 said:


> As I said before... I have a 2017 Ford Gas/Western Pro Plus...both bought new and has the problem. I have a 2017 Ford Gas/Boss v and VBX800 at work and both bought new... also has the problem.
> 
> The common... Ford


This isn't possible, Ted/Ed said it was a SnowEx only problem.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Chris33 said:


> As I said before... I have a 2017 Ford Gas/Western Pro Plus...both bought new and has the problem. I have a 2017 Ford Gas/Boss v and VBX800 at work and both bought new... also has the problem.
> 
> The common... Ford


You are 100% correct ain't disputing that.

If you had a Chevy you would also be correct if you said Chevy was the problem

Same with Ram.

I truly fail to understand the lack of comprehension.

All three manufacturers have safeties built in. Like it or not trucks are getting more and more sophisticated.

We've heard just about every manufacturer of plows no matter what vehicle is causing issues. There are two common denominators here, Truck manufacturers and snow plow manufacturers.

Aftermarket conforms to the manufacturer, it's always been that way nothing new. do you think any vehicle manufacturer is going to go under their way to conform to an aftermarket company that is a very small percentage of their overall sales?

We won't even get into the CAN network, And how newer vehicles operate, much less negative ground versus positive ground vehicles.

We've already established these plows nowadays take more and more power, why cuz we want bigger and bigger faster plows.

Manufacturers want to stuff all electronics in the world into these trucks.

The big three are not going to change, it is a small percentage of new vehicles sold that become plow trucks.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> This isn't possible, Ted/Ed said it was a SnowEx only problem.


True story


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Did you read the bulletin from Boss to Ford????
> 
> Are you reading anything beyond the first post?
> 
> This is the second thread you've responded where someone already posted what you did or in this case, you're just wrong.


evvverything snow ex puts out is plagued with problems. Common denominator.
As I said I am not aware of any problems with any of the boss plows on the newer fords, no one who has them has said , mentioned or *****ed about any issues.
Mean while i cant go anywhere without hearing someone ***** about snowex, plows...spreaders, sprayers. Like I said common denominator.... our fords dont do anything "strange" unless it's hooked to the snowex.

Even then... the problem (at least this one) doesnt seem to be THAT bad (for the time being) ... the majority of the time my truck just acts like it auto dimmed like the day time running lights went on and then off again... it doesnt frequently shut off the radio and it never has shut down the instrument cluster/dash... at least not on MY truck or any of the others ive heard about.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Did you read the bulletin from Boss to Ford????
> 
> Are you reading anything beyond the first post?
> 
> This is the second thread you've responded where someone already posted what you did or in this case, you're just wrong.


THIS does not accurately describe whats happening to my/our fords. Did you read my post?
Full stop left to right.. THATS when it happens... no flickering lights, NO loss of instrument cluster, never happens with anything else... fllod lights, warning lights, winches, lifts... just the plow.
https://content.bossplow.com/content/servicecenter/documents/sv134.pdf


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

tpendagast said:


> THIS does not accurately describe whats happening to my/our fords. Did you read my post?
> Full stop left to right.. THATS when it happens... no flickering lights, NO loss of instrument cluster, never happens with anything else... fllod lights, warning lights, winches, lifts... just the plow.
> https://content.bossplow.com/content/servicecenter/documents/sv134.pdf


Did you turn the BMS off.....................


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Did you turn the BMS off.....................


Battery management system?

No
We didn't install the plows 
Dealer did

we don't mess with trucks that are under warranty 
Bad juju , don't want to get blamed for voiding anything.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

tpendagast said:


> Battery management system?
> 
> we don't mess with trucks that are under warranty
> Bad juju , don't want to get blamed for voiding anything.


K


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

extremepusher said:


> What im saying is that when you put it in drive it starts in third not first.


Post #17 in this thread has a good general explanation as to what might be happening

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1430792-e4od-possibly-starting-in-2nd-or-3rd.html


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

tpendagast said:


> THIS does not accurately describe whats happening to my/our fords. Did you read my post?
> Full stop left to right.. THATS when it happens... no flickering lights, NO loss of instrument cluster, never happens with anything else... fllod lights, warning lights, winches, lifts... just the plow.
> https://content.bossplow.com/content/servicecenter/documents/sv134.pdf


Did you read any of the other posts? It is a Boss and Hickenlooper issue.

Not to mention, you are deadheading the pump just like if one of these guys is raising it which is going to cause an amp spike. Same as everyone else.


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

tpendagast said:


> evvverything snow ex puts out is plagued with problems. Common denominator.
> As I said I am not aware of any problems with any of the boss plows on the newer fords, no one who has them has said , mentioned or *****ed about any issues.
> Mean while i cant go anywhere without hearing someone ***** about snowex, plows...spreaders, sprayers. Like I said common denominator.... our fords dont do anything "strange" unless it's hooked to the snowex.
> 
> Even then... the problem (at least this one) doesnt seem to be THAT bad (for the time being) ... the majority of the time my truck just acts like it auto dimmed like the day time running lights went on and then off again... it doesnt frequently shut off the radio and it never has shut down the instrument cluster/dash... at least not on MY truck or any of the others ive heard about.


Hmm.. that's funny because we have 7 snowex wideout plows and 1 3.5cuft spreader and no issues till we stuck them on these 2019 trucks... dont know what plague of problems your talking either?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

PYS1 said:


> Hmm.. that's funny because we have 7 snowex wideout plows and 1 3.5cuft spreader and no issues till we stuck them on these 2019 trucks...


Huh, funny that...


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

Just for clarification, the recent (last few years) problems with electrical spikes are not caused from heavy electrical loads using too much power for the trucks to keep up. The problem comes from truck manufacturers installing larger alternators to accommodate larger electrical loads without properly engineering the remainder of the electrical system to account for the larger alternators. 

Basically, when you use a heavy electrical load (plow, winch, inverter):
-the alternator goes to full output
-when heavy load stops suddenly (the plow, winch or inverter shuts off)
-the alternator cannot stop putting out 200+ amps fast enough
-the electrical system cant absorb 200+ unused amps before the alternator backs off
-system overcharges (even for milliseconds)
-certain computer systems automatically shut down to protect from getting fried

Solutions:
Second battery: Sometimes this works. The variables are still in the wiring from the alternator to the electrical system vs the batteries. If the alternator cannot dump the power directly into the batteries fast enough, problem not solved

The "extra truck side harness": The harness uses a 12v signal from your accessory to "disable" the alternator under heavy load to prevent the on/off surge. What if you are using an inverter to run a heavy load for 20 minutes? Shutting off the alternator for 20 minutes under a heavy load is not really a good idea either. Kind of like trying to start your truck for 20 minutes straight without a battery charger (that equals a dead battery and truck).

The "snowplow prep package" using the new harness usually fixes the problem (except those of us with a front and rear plow systems). The harness only has connections for one plow pump/system (without a custom designed set of relays etc), so problem still not solved...

Easiest solution for truck manufactures is to change the wording from "plow prep package" to "heavy electrical package" and price it as needed to correct the problem. They could then include the larger alternator, dual batteries, and a properly sized electrical system to direct the power (and the surges) to the accessory and or batteries.

Whoa, that was a bit wordy for a Friday, time for a pre-lunch sandwich!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Woodenshoe said:


> Just for clarification, the recent (last few years) problems with electrical spikes are not caused from heavy electrical loads using too much power for the trucks to keep up. The problem comes from truck manufacturers installing larger alternators to accommodate larger electrical loads without properly engineering the remainder of the electrical system to account for the larger alternators.
> 
> Basically, when you use a heavy electrical load (plow, winch, inverter):
> -the alternator goes to full output
> ...


Holy WOW!!!!!!!

That was pretty well written for a klompen wearerer.


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

...electrical degrees and stuff


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

FYI, we have a 15’ Chevrolet, and a 19’ Ford both with the power surge/spike problem from Boss front plows and winged back plows. Dual battery setup in the Ford fixed things so far, the Chevy required a little more “Dutch engineering”...

On edit: No windmills were used in this project.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Woodenshoe said:


> FYI, we have a 15' Chevrolet, and a 19' Ford both with the power surge/spike problem from Boss front plows and winged back plows. Dual battery setup in the Ford fixed things so far, the Chevy required a little more "Dutch engineering"...


SnowEx owns Toro?


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## KAI Grounds (Dec 20, 2017)

We have a '19 F350 w/ 9'6 western v and tornado salter, we had same issue with dash blinking out. Went and spent about $450 at Tasca Parts for the items to add second battery to truck ourselves. Was easier than fighting with installer of plow or the dealer on the power draw. Havent had an issue since. I also ordered the truck with the largest alternator available knowing of the bigger power draw with the plow and salter.


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## PYS1 (Jan 13, 2020)

KAI Grounds said:


> We have a '19 F350 w/ 9'6 western v and tornado salter, we had same issue with dash blinking out. Went and spent about $450 at Tasca Parts for the items to add second battery to truck ourselves. Was easier than fighting with installer of plow or the dealer on the power draw. Havent had an issue since. I also ordered the truck with the largest alternator available knowing of the bigger power draw with the plow and salter.


Yeah we ordered trucks with biggest alternator also. What did you all get for parts to add it?


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

The factory secondary battery tray includes a new coolant tank and involves transferring a few hoses, wiring clips, etc. We ordered the factory tray and a factory battery so they would be a matched set. We ended up making our own battery cables so we could oversize them to compensate for the heavy plow load. I think we spent around $500 in parts, and about 2 hours of our labor, which is much cheaper than a dealer option...


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## KAI Grounds (Dec 20, 2017)

PYS1 said:


> Yeah we ordered trucks with biggest alternator also. What did you all get for parts to add it?


I ordered the Ford reservoir alternate for a second battery, the new radiator hoses (theres 2 that need to be changed). There are kits out there, but I was able to save almost $100 to order the parts on Tasca parts versus ebay or other stores. then replaced the original battery, since it has 3 months of hard work by itself, so that both the batteries were the same manufacturer and service time.


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