# Travel time pay. Who does it?



## Scott183 (Aug 11, 2005)

I have an odd question, but I can't be the first to ask it. Some of my drivers live a half hour or more from there lots that they do, depending on the storm or time they have to go out it may be shorter or longer. When I received one of my workers hours sheet, I noticed he's writing down the hours starting when he's leaving his home to get to his first lot as opposed to when he arrived. In all the jobs I ever worked, no one ever payed me to drive there. How do the rest of you handle this. The particular driver is driving my truck home on my fuel and leaving from his house. I don't think he "clocks in" until he arrives at his first lot. What say you?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

When I had a job they didn't pay me to drive to work or home every day.
If you live 1/2 hr from work that is your issue.

I only pay by the lot not the hr and no travel time.
if you want to work you will go to work.

I dont pay you so you can stop at Timmies and shoot the breeze with GV and Randy.

so to summarize, i only pay for production.


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## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

home to start of first job and end of last job to home is off the clock.

travel time from jobs in between first and last jobs is on the clock.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

To whose advantage is it that he's taking the truck home? If its putting him closer to the first job, and on the ready for when you call him out I see no reason why you shouldn't pay him travel to the job. If he was starting out at your shop, and driving to a job, you would pay him from the time he left the shop.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

If he's a sub with his truck ,the clock starts when he gets in it,including all stops at Timmy's.I'd rather pay for those few extra minutes to a guy that is reliable then to someone who isn't.


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## born2farm (Dec 24, 2007)

Employees who report to shop get paid from the time they arrive at shop until the time they get back to shop upon route completion.

Employees who take company trucks home and sub contractors get paid from the time they get in the truck (at their house) until their last lot is completed. They do not get paid to drive back home.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

I pay per Job and will deduct if I get called and have to go clean up there mess. 
I don't get call backs and they get paid well.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

grandview;1941317 said:


> If he's a sub with his truck ,the clock starts when he gets in it,including all stops at Timmy's.I'd rather pay for those few extra minutes to a guy that is reliable then to someone who isn't.


hahaah your to cheep to do that....

so in his bid he put in travel time and lunch in it.

gee that lot will kake 1hr but i have to drive 2mi to get to it and stop for a timmies, that will be 1&1/2 hr to do that job.:laughing:

There a subcontractor not a employee.
You can take them to lunch, but your not going to pay him to do his personal business.
do you also pay him to fix his equipment,
no?
why not?
it's part of getting to the job.....

well at least 'im not going to do it.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

born2farm;1941326 said:


> Employees who report to shop get paid from the time they arrive at shop until the time they get back to shop upon route completion.
> 
> Employees who take company trucks home and sub contractors get paid from the time they get in the truck (at their house) until their last lot is completed. They do not get paid to drive back home.


Same deal here, drive there paid, home not. Reason for that I used to pay to and from but guys would take extra stops and get paid for it.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

SnoFarmer;1941330 said:


> hahaah your to cheep to do that....
> 
> so in his bid he put in travel time and lunch in it.
> 
> ...


All in the bid. In the old days when I plowed for someone we would start the trucks up and go back inside and have a few beers before we headed out, on the clock of course.


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## Scott183 (Aug 11, 2005)

linckeil;1941260 said:


> home to start of first job and end of last job to home is off the clock.
> 
> travel time from jobs in between first and last jobs is on the clock.


I think this is the fairest way to do it. He's burning up a few extra gallons of fuel, which I don't mind because he's been with me a long time, however I let him pick up his girlfriend on occasion, and he's not the fastest guy in the world. He can leave from the shop and get paid from there or paid from the time he arrives at his first lot, can't have it both ways. I do have a sub that also works for me, and I do pay from the time he rolls out until he's done with his last lot. I appreciate most of the responses I got here, thanks.


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

actually consult your lawyer/accountant/insurance carrier since state laws vary. It really depends on how you classify the employee and where the truck is based. In some cases you will find out that you should be deducting mileage from the employee for his personal travel to and from work. And if the driver has a accident on the way to Timmies on a non event day, who pays for that. And heaven forbid, the driver has a accident on the way to work and his kid goes through the windshield(he was dropping the kid off at grandmom's on his way.) Sometimes it is easier to not say anything and plead ignorance then to ask the question and try to do something the right way


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Longae29;1941268 said:


> To whose advantage is it that he's taking the truck home? If its putting him closer to the first job, and on the ready for when you call him out I see no reason why you shouldn't pay him travel to the job. If he was starting out at your shop, and driving to a job, you would pay him from the time he left the shop.


The driver has the advantage, he can plow his driveway, his folks, etc.... Maybe even do some side work too. 
Pay him when he gets to the 1st property and stop paying when he finishes the last property.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Longae29;1941268 said:


> To whose advantage is it that he's taking the truck home? If its putting him closer to the first job, and on the ready for when you call him out I see no reason why you shouldn't pay him travel to the job. If he was starting out at your shop, and driving to a job, you would pay him from the time he left the shop.


He's not a SUB contractor if he is taking your truck home.
He's your employee unless he is leasing the truck from you.
Your insurance your employee.

Now your paying him from the time he starts the truck to the time he shuts it off,
Less 1/2 hr for lunch or dinner.
You could pay a lower rate for travel time also.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

grandview;1941334 said:


> All in the bid. In the old days when I plowed for someone we would start the trucks up and go back inside and have a few beers before we headed out, on the clock of course.


When I subed he would buy lunch, breakfast or dinner but on our time.
If I stopped plowing in the middle of the lot and went away,
I didn't get paid, as I bid on finish clearing the lot I bid on to complete in a timely manner.
Job not completed= no $

On the way to the next job , I'm on my time.
I could plow a resi or 2 of mine on my way to the next lot
I'm clearing as a sub contractor.

I bid my day out, down time is on me.
I only get paid for completed work.


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## Fourbycb (Feb 12, 2009)

I add 10 minutes travel time on the Front and Back End of each account


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## Scott183 (Aug 11, 2005)

I try to keep it informal to an extent. If my guys have been out there working for me for 12+ hours and we happen to meet for a meal, I usually pick up the tab. I have one guy who literally will mark down when he starts and finishes a property to the exact minute. He's the one I'll give the extra 20 minutes- 1/2 hour to come pay day.


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## snowplower1 (Jan 15, 2014)

our employees clock in when they leave and clock out when they finish their last property. which reminds me i should remind them that that's how it is to make sure theyve been doing it


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Maybe I should clarify.
When I " subed" I was really a employee as defined by the IRS.
He paid by the Hr, and we drove our own trucks, and had our own ins.

I never need to repair my truck and I didn't trash tranneys.
Ya went just fast enough so he wasn't squawking over the CB.
Who cared how many lots ya cleared you were getting paid by the hr
to plow.

That's a far cry from being a real contractor that I am today.

The clock didn't start until I dropped the blade and started push'en
It stopped when you lifted the plow at the end of the job.

If he was around he would keep time on you also.
And your times had better jive with his or ya got lip service on pay day.


He bought breakfast etc but it was on our dime.
Back then if you were his favorite he might spring for a tank of fuel.
Back in the 80's....


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

SnoFarmer;1941445 said:


> Maybe I should clarify.
> When I " subed" I was really a employee as defined by the IRS.
> He paid by the Hr, and we drove our own trucks, and had our own ins.
> 
> ...


glad he could spare the extra 5 bucks for a full tank of gas.


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## Glenn Lawn Care (Sep 28, 2009)

Every time I've been a sub I got paid from the time I got in my truck to the time I got out of it.


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## JimMarshall (Jan 25, 2013)

How far from your shop to the lots?


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## blwnsmoke (Dec 16, 2009)

I am a sub and get paid by the hour.. I charge from the moment I leave to the moment I get home. They way I look at it is this.. if I was their actual employee, I'd have to go to the shop and clock in, get in their truck and then drive to the lot. I'm bypassing that and driving straight to the lot therefore I consider the moment I jump in the truck, I'm clocked in.

I think this is very fair and reasonable. I will state though that I am honest with my hours and do not "pad" them in my favor (very easy to do if I wanted to). I write my times to the minute and they are exact. I do not deduct any time for eating or bathroom breaks but do deduct for down time and repairs.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I hire a Sub on a occasion to plow for me.
He gave me his price/bid.

I don't care where he came from or where he goes.
What he plows or when he plows.
I just have a time that I want the lots serviced by.


I bet he is smart enough to account for his costs of doing business.
I pay one price, he can do it in 30 minutes or he can loiter and take a hr, it's up to him as it pays the same.

It looks like a lot of you are really employes, your just in DeNile.
I was but I have long since dried myself off behind the ears.
.


ps yea $5 of gas and a coke....
He was a butthat but if you needed help he would go the extra mile for ya.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

SnoFarmer;1941847 said:


> I hire a Sub on a occasion to plow for me.
> He gave me his price/bid.
> 
> I don't care where he came from or where he goes.
> ...


So if its 3 inches off heavy wet concrete he doesn't get paid extra. And i agree with the guy that posted if you drive your own truck and don't have to stop at the shop and your eliminating 1 stop I should receive some kind of compensation I work for a small landscaper I treat him well and he treats me well i even get holiday pay extra cash for Christmas and new years doesn't matter if its the eve or the day its usally an extra hundred dollars


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Our subs are paid seasonal so they know what they are going to gross for the winter before it starts. Last year was a bad year and they all came back so hopefully this year is easier and everything averages out.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

How many storm do you average it on and how do they get paid half up front?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

rjigto4oje;1941873 said:


> So if its 3 inches off heavy wet concrete he doesn't get paid extra. And i agree with the guy that posted if you drive your own truck and don't have to stop at the shop and your eliminating 1 stop I should receive some kind of compensation I work for a small landscaper I treat him well and he treats me well i even get holiday pay extra cash for Christmas and new years doesn't matter if its the eve or the day its usally an extra hundred dollars


 I dont pay him more because his last job isn't a block away from the lot I want plowed by him.. 
I dont pay more for him to do anything but plow the lot.
he agreed to plow at the price we agreed on.

What he does independently of the lots i want plowed is his business and on dime as he is a independent contractor, not my employee.

Nope 3" of slop should roll off the back of a competent contractors like water off of a duck.

Of course I'm approachable for a deep snow/ blizzard Claus, But I'm not going to pay extra to plow 3" of anything, that's crazy
He should know how to bid, taking in all of the variables that go with plowing the lot.
This should be reflected in his price.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Around here we do get heavy wet snow that may take longer.
car's or extra work for drifting will also take a bit longer i document it and take pictures. If it takes longer I have it documented and there will be proof


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

rjigto4oje;1941904 said:


> Around here we do get heavy wet snow that may take longer.
> car's or extra work for drifting will also take a bit longer i document it and take pictures. If it takes longer I have it documented and there will be proof


I won't hire you a "contractor " to plow by the hr with your truck , I hire employes by the hr to drive my trucks

You bid the job per push,
As I said I don't care if it takes him 20 minutes or 2 hrs as long as it is done in time.
It pays the same.

Why should I pay more for a guy with a 7ft straight blade& a SUV (because it takes him longer )compared to the plow rates of a 9ft containment plow on a truck. 
I pay to have it cleared what you use or how long you take is on you.

I plow it leisurely in 30 minutes with sidewalks.
So I know how long it takes .

As I said a lot of you think of yourselves as contractors but your being treated like employes and some of you want to be paid and treated like one.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

I have a a 7.6 with wings. I know you don't care. You must have a high turn over. If you don't then that's good for you. But I would only get screwed once. Sounds like myself any many others would not work for you unless you paid a very fair amount of time, witch I doubt. So on that note I QUIT


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

rjigto4oje;1941931 said:


> I have a a 7.6 with wings. I know you don't care. You must have a high turn over. If you don't then that's good for you. But I would only get screwed once. Sounds like myself any many others would not work for you unless you paid a very fair amount of time, witch I doubt. So on that note I QUIT


My employee rate is very low.

But i didn't hire you as a employe .
I hired a subcontractor, my business hired Your business to plow a lot.

I pay per push.
You chose what you get paid to plow the lot.
I ether agree or decline it.
IT could be a inch of Champaign powder or 10" of wind blown crusty crap.
One will take you 15 minutes if you hustle a little & the other a hour or more it pays the same.

You know this as a competent contractor and adjust your bid accordingly.

You also may go for a aded amount of $ for snow over XYX.

The contractor i sub out to now has worked for me for 5 years.
He shouldn't complain and or quit over what he makes as he set the price.

On avg he will get around $75-100a hr when he plows for me, if we were going to go by his avg.hourely times to plow it, but that is moot as I pay by the push.

And I don't care if you whine or quit your not getting unemployment form me.

To my subcontractor, I do care if ya quit, as you do very good work in a timely manner.

Ps I don't care if he had to drive 3 hours in travel time to get to the lot or if he has a 17hr drive after.
It's his life.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Like I said I would never work like that. I've worked for my boss for 15 years and down here we drink wiskey aka Jack Daniels sounds like it's working out for the both of us


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

No one takes a truck home, except our operations manager and owners. All of which are salary, so other than tracking time for production purposes, that's a moot point.

Everyone comes to the shop and leaves from there. They get paid from when they walk in and clock in on the iPad, until the time they get back and clock out on the iPad. Shifts over 8 hours they get 1 hour to take in whatever amounts they see fit. Trucks all have GPS so we can confirm if we suspect anything funny is going on. Route sheets match up to bidding times within 10 minutes, and 10 minutes could mean a customer came out to talk for 5 and they had to stop and take a leak somewhere. Unless it's a half hour or more we don't get too worried about it.



JD Dave;1941879 said:


> Our subs are paid seasonal so they know what they are going to gross for the winter before it starts. Last year was a bad year and they all came back so hopefully this year is easier and everything averages out.


That's interesting, how do you work that out?Monthly payments or what? Most of your subs are running tractors though, correct?


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