# Seasonal on this... Google image



## MatthewG (Jun 16, 2009)

I really don't ask for input, but I thought why not on this one. 69,000 square feet, loading docks one side on left building. We rent warehouse space from this guy for our other business (commercial flooring).

He gave me an invoice from last year, the current provider charges $75.00 an hour for a pickup, 8" took them 4.5 hours, bill was $337.5 for the Feb 6 storm.
The Feb 10 storm cost the landlord $1,016.25

No salt, no shoveling, enough room for piles, plan to use pickup with 8.5 Fisher.....

$3300 for the season, maybe 5 events total

???


----------



## VIPHGM (Aug 10, 2010)

well, 2 things... i don't know much about your pricing or area but to me that lot looks a lot bigger then 69,000 Sq, because that only computes out to 1.58 acres and well i would have to say that to me looks at least 2.5 acres if not 3... if it took that guy 4.5 hour to do a 1.58 acre lot then i dont know what to say to that.... he sucks at plowing, it looks like a simple format layout with plenty of push room 

1.5 - 4 in - $ 147.03 - 94 minutes 1.56 hrs
4 - 8 in - $198.86 - 127 minutes 2.11 hrs
8 - 12 in - $252.59 - 161 minutes 2.68 hrs 
12 - + in - $307.26 196 minutes or 3.26 hrs

and salt is coming in at 900lbs per acre.... which is roughly .71 Tons

I would push the main drags straight back roll the one to the left other to the right, to the main large lot first because it looks like that is higher volume, then push from the center driveway to the right, rolling left so it will all roll out the the back left and outer, then do several laps counter clockwise around the second building, back drag those few area including the truck docks, but run as much to the building parallel as possible and just work your way around and out rolling it off the the right, then go back and finish up your corners and entrance ways and be on your way, i would like the address to do an actual measurement for to see for my self, because that looks way larger then 1.58a, and which would mean my number will be off if that is so. I set the hourly rate off of $94.25.... Seasonal if your saying only 5 events i would probably base it off of 8 - 10 All inclusively with out salt at $2,037.96 and that's based off of 9 pushes at average of $ 226.44 per push... i don't know how much of this is going to be helpful, but hopefully it helps if you have questions feel free to ask


----------



## ADBsnowremoval (Aug 16, 2009)

I dont know about your market, but wow!!! I would not get out of bed for that kind of money. I can truely say that 226 per push would be a huge low baller in this area. Good luck in making money this season with a price like that. It will take you several years just to pay off your plow. Matt, doing the math on your price is a little close to where it should be. $450 per plow $250 per salt.


----------



## m.$terner (Feb 28, 2010)

i have a question then. your saying 450 per plow and 250 per salt. how much snow would you let fall before each plow though. im in a similar boat but i would think every 6 inches would be reasonable to plow but couldnt use a 6 inch trigger because 6 inches in a lot and ppl would be haviing a **** fit. how do i solve that then? id rather do per push than per hour but cant seem to get around that problem


----------



## ADBsnowremoval (Aug 16, 2009)

m.$terner;1098535 said:


> i have a question then. your saying 450 per plow and 250 per salt. how much snow would you let fall before each plow though. im in a similar boat but i would think every 6 inches would be reasonable to plow but couldnt use a 6 inch trigger because 6 inches in a lot and ppl would be haviing a **** fit. how do i solve that then? id rather do per push than per hour but cant seem to get around that problem


All of our accounts are on a 1" trigger. If it snows more than 1" then we will go out and plow their lot. All of our snow removal is to be done at night time hours unless a storm dictates otherwise. We will plow and/or salt drive lanes and open areas in bigger snow falls, and then when the night comes we will clear the empty lots. None of my accounts are per hour, as that is not a way to stay profitable and make money. Anyone that wants a per hour price is not going to get me to waste my time to bid it. The profit I make on a job is between me and my bank, not the penny counter that signs the contract, if that makes any sense. You need to sell a service, not an hourly rate!!! On the bigger storms you may end up charging a half charge for the drivelanes and open spot plowing, or even giving them a freebie on occasion for that type of service. Customers love to see a "No Charge" somewhere on their invoice. They know that you where there, and they keep you coming back year after year because you do not take advantage of them. Hope this helps somehow. It may seem as clear as mud. lol


----------



## MatthewG (Jun 16, 2009)

I measured from google maps, didnt get real precise but its around 70,000 sqft. Its a 2 hour job mimumum, I like 80 an hour, maybe down to 70 for a bigger job in a bidding situation.

I do offer a 5% discount if paid in full so seasonal with discount is $3135.00

My alternate bid was as follows for per push
2-6 $280
6-9 $320
9-12 $400
12-15 $520
additonal inch over 15 is $50


----------



## VIPHGM (Aug 10, 2010)

Well you said it your self 2 hour job min... at 80 an hour is only 160 which puts my 147... 13 dollars less then what you just said... so in reality i am not that far off from where it should be... i don't think a 1 - 4 in storm should take you more then what a quoted at 1.56 hours which is 1 1/2 hours, re look at my numbers and you will see there very competitive and almost exact of what they should be at plowed at. Yes, in the larger storms it may take a little longer if the snow is wet and heavy but i based it off of an average between all 4 increments so on the less amounts of snow your making more and you may loose a few on the heavier storms but in reality your more likely to get most smaller storms them all huge storms so it should work its way out to be more hourly profitable in the end... if you sell him on the lower amount of plow pricing... up sell him on applying salt to the lot and keep it reasonable like $ 82.36 per applications.. so sell him on the all inclusive at the $2,000 mark... and then do a per app price in salt and make your profit... if your doing this yourself no matter what its profitable... i know 2 grand doesn't sound like a lot but you said it your self only base it off of 5 pushes which im still at 9.... up here everyone bases it off of roughly 12 i make sure im at a little lower rate per push but base seasonal off of 16 -21 pushes to make a higher mark in plowing... its the way you make it appear to the customer to make them happy.... $3 looks better then $8 $8 with 5 pushes is $ 40... but $3 with 15 pushes is $45... do you see what i mean... make them see what they want to see they like lower numbers... idk its kind of hard to explain but it does make sense .... your asking $3300 which if you have 5 pushes is $660 per push if you told the guy that he would probably say no.... in your increments i probably wouldn't go higher then 12 unless you get a bunch of 12+ in storms a year big numbers like that scare ppl .... dont forget that you can do multiple plowings in one snow event also


----------



## m.$terner (Feb 28, 2010)

ADBsnowremoval;1098557 said:


> All of our accounts are on a 1" trigger. If it snows more than 1" then we will go out and plow their lot. All of our snow removal is to be done at night time hours unless a storm dictates otherwise. We will plow and/or salt drive lanes and open areas in bigger snow falls, and then when the night comes we will clear the empty lots. None of my accounts are per hour, as that is not a way to stay profitable and make money. Anyone that wants a per hour price is not going to get me to waste my time to bid it. The profit I make on a job is between me and my bank, not the penny counter that signs the contract, if that makes any sense. You need to sell a service, not an hourly rate!!! On the bigger storms you may end up charging a half charge for the drivelanes and open spot plowing, or even giving them a freebie on occasion for that type of service. Customers love to see a "No Charge" somewhere on their invoice. They know that you where there, and they keep you coming back year after year because you do not take advantage of them. Hope this helps somehow. It may seem as clear as mud. lol


ok its a little fuzzy but i think get your jist. id proablly do a 2 inch trigger so once 2 inches is on the ground ill be there. maybe im confusing per event and per push or are they the same. your saying $450 to clear the lot regardless of snow amount or $450 per visist? if its $450 *per* visist then how often do you visit then?


----------



## m.$terner (Feb 28, 2010)

anybody else want to chime in? i always do per hour so trying to fig out if im understanding this correct.


----------



## MatthewG (Jun 16, 2009)

Im sure he meant 450 per event, per event or per push in my book are the same, you could never get 450 per push and push it 3 times in a 12" storm, that would be a little pricey IMO


----------



## VIPHGM (Aug 10, 2010)

Per push and per event are two totally different price variations..... per push is as many times as need to keep that lot cleared because usually you have multiple sites that need to cleared and then that's when you start the process over again and do either second run threw or start the salting process... your per event can be a flat rate but is usually its designed to justify how you set up your all inclusive or seasonal contract, in a per event its anything that occurs in a 24 hours day, each day starts over that per event/ or each storm starts over the next process as long as there was a 3 -5 hour window between when the storm actually stopped and when it starts up again... depending how you set up the contract


----------



## MatthewG (Jun 16, 2009)

I ended up submitting a seasonal bid of $2,690.00 no salting and no shoveling. Id like to get it as he is my landlord, we shall see.


----------

