# Candian Liquid De Iceing & Anti Iceing



## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

If we could use this to discuss the various products and ideas for de iceing and anti icing alternatives to salt in Canada. tymusic


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Oh i see how you are. What you think liquid deicer workd different in Canada than the US !!! :laughing::laughing:


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Superior L & L;957399 said:


> Oh i see how you are. What you think liquid deicer workd different in Canada than the US !!! :laughing::laughing:


Yes!!! :laughing: :

No we just don't have access to all the ones you guys do and parts stores to get all the stuff.

If you want to buy some of the fancy foo foo dust that you guys got u need to buy tanker loads. I'd like to try Chloride guys stuff but you have to buy it in truck loads or become a dealer.. Same thing I guess.

And unless you know Grandview you will get taken to the cleaners by UPS FED Ex Purolater on broker and duty fees on parts.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Another Canadian thread?


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

JohnnyRoyale;957414 said:


> Another Canadian thread?


Ha ha made you look.. Sucker..


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Dear Grassman,

I have a Chevy truck (even tho I love Fords) and recently I purchased a new Ebling blade, which made me OH SO friggin excited!! Heck YEA! My salter is mounted in the bed of my truck & my concern is will the salt rust the backblade fast? There have also been some recent debates about my traction problems with the salter unit, while running my Ebling blade. It seems every time I operate the blade, I need my window down all the way? And liquids to this day still haunt me. Is this normal? 

Signed,

Anonymous plowguy.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

This is what I built so far. I have only ran Master Melt 55 from Drgalm in it. Flows great works pretty good but is costly.

I built this last weekend so I have not had time to fab up a proper mount to the trailer hitch. Needs to be adjustable higher and lower for the 4 different tips I have on the boom. The blue hose has to go and install the proper suction hose. I have 50' of suction hose if anyone needs hose.

I'm waiting on Eco Solutions for some Fusion and Brine and make a few different Strength. Time will tell if Calcium or Mag Chloride is needed.

Waiting for a 12volt bypass Ball valve so I'm not jumping out of the truck all the time and wasting liquid.

Triple L,

In the off season I can always come up there to help you with power sweeping in the spring. Spray the stuff out of the corners for you. Maybe I can help Daff with washing.


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## EcoGreen Serv (Oct 26, 2009)

Superior L & L;957399 said:


> Oh i see how you are. What you think liquid deicer workd different in Canada than the US !!! :laughing::laughing:


It needs to work on that special Canadian Ice. tymusic

Because the supplier base is a lot smaller and different in Canada I think this thread is a good idea. It's a good place to discuss spray systems, Product effectiveness ,Canadian sourcing Etc IMO


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

creativedesigns;957439 said:


> Dear Grassman,
> 
> I have a Chevy truck (even tho I love Fords) and recently I purchased a new Ebling blade, which made me OH SO friggin excited!! Heck YEA! My salter is mounted in the bed of my truck & my concern is will the salt rust the backblade fast? There have also been some recent debates about my traction problems with the salter unit, while running my Ebling blade. It seems every time I operate the blade, I need my window down all the way? And liquids to this day still haunt me. Is this normal?
> 
> ...


I think as long as you use Magic-0 treated salt you will be okay.

Salt & Magic


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## RacerBren (Nov 6, 2005)

Hey, that's my utube Magic Video!!!!!! lol


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

RacerBren;957526 said:


> Hey, that's my utube Magic Video!!!!!! lol


Yea eh.. Figured u'd show.  Good vid. A tote here sells for about $750 U get $100 when you bring the tote back.

What kind of tip are you using in that spray wand?


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

U finally got it right, Way to go Dave! 

Cre's just ticked that you stole everything away from his copy of the weather thread and it will die now LOL...

Where are you getting your stuff now? just for kicks you should try phoning up these guys and seeing what they offer... http://www.organex.ca/ It seems they should have everything you could need, except its a 30 min drive...


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## RacerBren (Nov 6, 2005)

It;s just a brass hydroseed nozzle..Very Simple..


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Has anyone tried that orangish pre treated salt, I think its called thaw rocks... My supplier has a crap load of it, the price is alright, just wondering if anyone uses it and what you've thought and if its worth it or if its just clearlane everywhere?


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

We have used it... alot of it actually. Clearlane and Thawrox go back and forth with their availability. I think it isn't as hot as clearlane, but lasts longer. Other then that, pretty much the same, just with less colour. We had some that were really orange, but mostly it looks like magic and then I get calls saying that we aren't using treated... so that in itself is a benefit of clearlane.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Right on, thanks Jon...

So far I have to say the best salt I've EVER used is a hopper full of salt treated with 3 jugs of that purple windshield washer (because it froze up on me).... Man did that ever work nice, I almost feel like buying a 50 gal drum of it and treating my own stuff


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Grassman better get some more tanks for washing. 300 gal is good for only a few minutes at 20 GPM. As for the design of the spray unit keep it simple and have a back up plan in case of a break downs. Dont forget a quick drain hook up on the high side of the pump so you can dump the tank into a resivoir when the weather breaks. Nothing worse than a half full tank driving around the city for a few days..........


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

I have a brine mixer and a liquid de-icer in the works check out my profile picture albums ill have it done in a couple more days.


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

Grassman09;957457 said:


> This is what I built so far. I have only ran Master Melt 55 from Drgalm in it. Flows great works pretty good but is costly.
> 
> I built this last weekend so I have not had time to fab up a proper mount to the trailer hitch. Needs to be adjustable higher and lower for the 4 different tips I have on the boom. The blue hose has to go and install the proper suction hose. I have 50' of suction hose if anyone needs hose.
> 
> ...


How do you keep your suction line from collapsing?


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for starting this thread, very interesting stuff. I hope to be building a unit over the summer so any info is appreciated.


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## EcoGreen Serv (Oct 26, 2009)

Impressive Grassman.
Beats the hell out of my Princess Auto Special Sprayer.

I do find the "Boominator" nozzles work amazing and are very consistent.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Superior L & L;957399 said:


> Oh i see how you are. What you think liquid deicer workd different in Canada than the US !!!


It's because they use the Celsius scale, that's why it's different.

Remember that whole discussion on why southern salt doesn't work in the north?



JohnnyRoyale;957414 said:


> Another Canadian thread?


Giggle, chuckle, snort. Look at the thread starter.



creativedesigns;957439 said:


> Dear Grassman,
> 
> I have a Chevy truck (even tho I love Fords) and recently I purchased a new Ebling blade, which made me OH SO friggin excited!! Heck YEA! My salter is mounted in the bed of my truck & my concern is will the salt rust the backblade fast? There have also been some recent debates about my traction problems with the salter unit, while running my Ebling blade. It seems every time I operate the blade, I need my window down all the way? And liquids to this day still haunt me. Is this normal?
> 
> ...


:laughing::laughing:

You crack me up cre.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

...................


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Triple L;959129 said:


> ...................


I still can't beleive you won that anti icing system at the show. It's the nicest one I've ever seen. Do they give one away every day?


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

Yeah, it's one a day from that Rittenhouse company. Congrats again bud, maybe next year I will be the lucky one!


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

EcoGreen Serv;958097 said:


> Impressive Grassman.
> Beats the hell out of my Princess Auto Special Sprayer.
> 
> I do find the "Boominator" nozzles work amazing and are very consistent.


I have one of those too.... If I could only find it. Those costs about the same price as my boom does but I have 4 nozzles.

The gas pump came from princess auto. They got some good stuff.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

DAFFMOBILEWASH;957972 said:


> Grassman better get some more tanks for washing. 300 gal is good for only a few minutes at 20 GPM. As for the design of the spray unit keep it simple and have a back up plan in case of a break downs. Dont forget a quick drain hook up on the high side of the pump so you can dump the tank into a resivoir when the weather breaks. Nothing worse than a half full tank driving around the city for a few days..........


I found a 500 Gal tank in Barrie but they want $500 for it. Not sure if it is rated for these liquids as they used it for water.

Everything has cam and lock connectors and there is a "T" on the intake side of the pump with the cam locks on either side so I can drain the tank or pump from tank to tank. Pull the pump out of the truck and pump from the ground into the truck.

The boom will be protected by a steel channel and I'll keep an eye out for snow banks.



DRIFTER92;958017 said:


> How do you keep your suction line from collapsing?


I don't know. The blue hose was only $5 for 15' and was only for testing purpose. I have better hose going on this week.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;958258 said:


> Giggle, chuckle, snort. Look at the thread starter.












Giggle, Chuckle, snort.. :waving:

Back on topic please.


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## EcoGreen Serv (Oct 26, 2009)

Grassman09;959601 said:


> I have one of those too.... If I could only find it. Those costs about the same price as my boom does but I have 4 nozzles.
> 
> The gas pump came from princess auto. They got some good stuff.


Rittenhouse sells the "Eco Series" Plastic ones for about $25.

I love Princess Auto.
Well Except their Oxy Acetylene welding hose,


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

From my experience when applying MM use a 0 degree tip. The fans are going to cause grief when the wind picks up. Cam loks are the way to go and give you options when silly stuff comes up. 

Keep in mind MM is only good for the pre storm wetting and giving rock salt a little kick start in the cold. If you think you will be pouring this stuff on the lot to melt snow and ice pack you are asking for big trouble. Remember to keep to the rate of flow guidelines and enjoy the realistic benifits of fluids.

The MM will also work well with a mixture of salt brine 20-80 split 80 for salt. This will give you great results for pre salting a lot in the early spring in order to melt those small snow and frosty events. The brine solution will evoporate leaving a nice layer of white salt particles.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Daff,

Does the MM dilute that much? I sprayed it on my drive onto of the small events we had over the week and it melted it with success. I even tried it on hard pack and it kept it slushy overnight and into the next day.

I am more interested in Fusion/Geo Melt then MM. I would not spray a pile with MM and keep it tarped outside you are asking for trouble there too.



EcoGreen Serv;959896 said:


> Rittenhouse sells the "Eco Series" Plastic ones for about $25.


But its only 1/2 or 3/4 is it not?


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

*My creation*

















More pictures of my ussmileyflag version brine setup and my sprayer unit, should be getting my last fittings in today *crosses fingers*. I need 2) 1" MPT -> 3/4 Barb. So far they have sent me.... 3/4"-3/4" and 3/4"-1". lol third time's a charm i guess... Last night i mixed my first batch i am going today to see how it mixed and see if i need to change anything to mix better. (never did anything right the first time...) It has been a fun project to say the least...


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Nice setup. :salute: Kubota should pattend his ideas and or copy right them. The tips look spaced kinda far. Are you using a relay for the ball valve or just 12volts off a switch?


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

The switch I had didn't work I needed to solder another prong on so I just swapped it for a black switch same style with a little red light. I'll get it working and send pics. U got radioshacks that far north? LOL


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

DRIFTER92;962729 said:


> The switch I had didn't work I needed to solder another prong on so I just swapped it for a black switch same style with a little red light. I'll get it working and send pics. U got radioshacks that far north? LOL


Funny they used to be called Radio shack no they are called the Source. I believe its a spin off of circuit city and I believe CC closed or is in the process of closing its stores in the US but not there source stores here.

We have this store called Sayal they are pretty good for switches and stuff.

The switch is a single pole single throw or DP DT ?


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

Grassman09;962735 said:


> Funny they used to be called Radio shack no they are called the Source. I believe its a spin off of circuit city and I believe CC closed or is in the process of closing its stores in the US but not there source stores here.
> 
> We have this store called Sayal they are pretty good for switches and stuff.
> 
> The switch is a single pole single throw or DP DT ?


going back to store this one didn't work. It needs a constant, switch position one needs power as well as switch poistion 2. with no power to the opposite position. I would say that is a double pole double throw? I know nothing about wiring. The first switch I rigged to work was R13-203. You can lookup on radioshacks.com. I got the other switch, same model number but black, with 3 posts and it didn't work. I'll know more in about 30 min. It would help if employees knew anything as well cause I sure don't!


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

Well the switch works. To my rear plug. From there to sylinod I've got a problem. I'm going to reconnect all wires with fresh connections and see if that fixes it. I'm scratching my head on this one...


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Grassman09;962715 said:


> Nice setup. :salute: Kubota should pattend his ideas and or copy right them. The tips look spaced kinda far. Are you using a relay for the ball valve or just 12volts off a switch?


I may have screwed with the brinemaker design or layout a little bit but the original idea came from the Iowa DOT web site. However my tip jar remains empty? :laughing: All Illinois offers is high taxes and mismanagement.  Don't need a relay just a SPST toggle or rocker switch.


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

where i screwed up is not running the red wire to a constant. I tied into my aux power wire that they used for the plow headlight switch and ran that to my switch, which i needed, but i ran the red (constant) into the switch, along with the white (switch wire), instead of going to the aux 12V power wire with the red (constant) also. So yes you only need a single pole single throw. which is what i have now. 

What was so confusing to me is that i actually had the sylinoid working with my practice switch that i had rigged up the night before! So aparently i actually broke something in the switch to make it work? idk but it works now. No fancy lights i tried for 30 minutes to get that to work and said screw it, the system works. maybe someone knows how to fix that. it either lights up and doesnt work, or doesnt light up and works... I hate not knowing anything about electric wiring. at one point i did cook a ground wire i had clamped to my under dash area and plugged 2 12v hot wires in trying to get the lights to work on the switch, it smoked and burnt my hand lol so i just called it good.... glad its insured!


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Always keep circuts seperate from others. In the case of constant draw and higher amperage run main power from a relay. Sure you might get lucky using a heavy duty toggle switch but you will be playing with fire. Has anyone tried a trash pump in order to create brine. Seems like it would work in theory but ????


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

I have pictures of that a few posts back. Just back the truck up and hook my hoses and once I get my mixer refabbed 45 min I'll have 400 gallons of brine. Had some sedement on my "trick" mixer setup lol. Back to strait pipes 1-2" from the bottom.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

DAFFMOBILEWASH;963415 said:


> Always keep circuts seperate from others. In the case of constant draw and higher amperage run main power from a relay. Sure you might get lucky using a heavy duty toggle switch but you will be playing with fire. Has anyone tried a trash pump in order to create brine. Seems like it would work in theory but ????


I always use relays. I don't like the idea of a always hot wire running back to the truck for the hot wire of the valve. Trash pumps are aluminum are they not? These chemicals don't play nice with that I've heard.



DRIFTER92;963423 said:


> I have pictures of that a few posts back. Just back the truck up and hook my hoses and once I get my mixer refabbed 45 min I'll have 400 gallons of brine. Had some sedement on my "trick" mixer setup lol. Back to strait pipes 1-2" from the bottom.


How much salt do you add to the tote? Kubota you said 800lbs. Would that be 1/4 yd or 1/2 yd? Bucket on my skid steer is a half yard. I have gallon marking on my tote maybe that's easier. To what gallon mark do I fill it at.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Grassman09;963682 said:


> I always use relays. I don't like the idea of a always hot wire running back to the truck for the hot wire of the valve. Trash pumps are aluminum are they not? These chemicals don't play nice with that I've heard.
> 
> How much salt do you add to the tote? Kubota you said 800lbs. Would that be 1/4 yd or 1/2 yd? Bucket on my skid steer is a half yard. I have gallon marking on my tote maybe that's easier. To what gallon mark do I fill it at.


If you want just weigh a 5 gallon pail and then add salt that way. For the amounts your mixing that's all you need. That's actually how I did it at the start.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Grassman09;963682 said:


> I always use relays. I don't like the idea of a always hot wire running back to the truck for the hot wire of the valve. Trash pumps are aluminum are they not? These chemicals don't play nice with that I've heard.
> 
> How much salt do you add to the tote? Kubota you said 800lbs. Would that be 1/4 yd or 1/2 yd? Bucket on my skid steer is a half yard. I have gallon marking on my tote maybe that's easier. To what gallon mark do I fill it at.


Personally I consider trash pumps to be only the cast iron ones. The aluminum pumps are not recommended for corrosive chemicals and depends on what chemicals you are going to pump. The poly pumps are the safest to use with corrosive liquids.

These ball valves are like a 1/4 amp. Simply hook up the hot wire to a fused ignition source. It needs to be shut off when the key is shut off.

2.3 pounds per gallon. 400 gallons would be 920 pounds, so about a half yard.
My Bobcat bucket is 14 cu. ft. and it doesn't take quite a full bucket. (5 feet wide):waving:


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

JD Dave;963691 said:


> If you want just weigh a 5 gallon pail and then add salt that way. For the amounts your mixing that's all you need. That's actually how I did it at the start.


Okay thanks. I will need allot of those thou wont I? Has Keith got his brine maker set up yet?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

JD Dave;963691 said:


> If you want just weigh a 5 gallon pail and then add salt that way. For the amounts your mixing that's all you need. That's actually how I did it at the start.


Did I see a big brine setup somewhere here on plow site that is yours? Maybe a year or so ago? I still have to load the tank with a 5 gallon bucket because the tank is 40" wide and my skidsteer bucket is 60" wide. I do have an old skidsteer bucket that will soon be a 30" wide bucket just for loading the brinemaker. However, I thought about also using it for plowing snow so I'll have twice as much plowing to do? :laughing:


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

I don't have my pump wired to a constant hotwire. Only when the key is on aux/start position is it hot. What's dangerous about that? If I screwed up let me know. Thanks.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DRIFTER92;963741 said:


> I don't have my pump wired to a constant hotwire. Only when the key is on aux/start position is it hot. What's dangerous about that? If I screwed up let me know. Thanks.


That is right. Thats the way it should be.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Kubota 8540;963706 said:


> Did I see a big brine setup somewhere here on plow site that is yours? Maybe a year or so ago? I still have to load the tank with a 5 gallon bucket because the tank is 40" wide and my skidsteer bucket is 60" wide. I do have an old skidsteer bucket that will soon be a 30" wide bucket just for loading the brinemaker. However, I thought about also using it for plowing snow so I'll have twice as much plowing to do? :laughing:


No it was most likely DKG's, he uses a cattle water trough that is roughly 5 or 6 ft wide so he can dump the loader bucket into it.


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

*Sprayer works!*

Just finished electrical last night first test run picture, its dark but i will have more pictures soon.








10' Wide with 5 nozzles 7"-8" spacing between streams. Made everything adjustable and idnt even need it... go figure


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

I'll just lurk and learn for now.
(Subscribed)


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

My new brine maker is still under construction. Steel frame is built, just need a few plastic pipe fittings and it should be ready to go.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DKG;964166 said:


> My new brine maker is still under construction. Steel frame is built, just need a few plastic pipe fittings and it should be ready to go.


Post some pictures?


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

I will do my best. Hopefully posting pictures is as easy as making brine.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DKG;964221 said:


> I will do my best. Hopefully posting pictures is as easy as making brine.


I would have to say they are about equal after you have done either one once.

Once you have the pictures on your computer it gets easier from there.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

DKG;964221 said:


> I will do my best. Hopefully posting pictures is as easy as making brine.


I can help you out if you need a hand. Still need to drop off the firewood I got for you. I'll come over and bring the 24 or should I get a keg when you start making the brine? :laughing:


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Grassman09;964257 said:


> I can help you out if you need a hand. Still need to drop off the firewood I got for you. I'll come over and bring the 24 or should I get a keg when you start making the brine? :laughing:


He doesn't drink beer he drink Wiser's.


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

OK, so here is my thought of the week. POD is key when using liquids but what about sucking the brine solution off the lot and then reusing it in the next batch. Sure you would have too screen the fluid and add more salt but not as much as the solution starting at 0% salt. NTM the lot would become dry much faster and less mess inside the location for a reduction of a slip and fall inside too. The best part is you are doing your part in reducing the amount of chemicials re entering the water table!!!


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

Dont wanna have the suction line collaspe. Just run a ABS pipe or hydroseeding hose etc inside of it. Works great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

Just perfected my mixer. Put elbows facing clockwise on all four corners making a whirlpool with 3/4 outlets and the center pointing strait down with same outlet. No more piles it's blowing rock chunks upto the 175 gallon mark! Third times a charm.


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

DRIFTER92;965223 said:


> Just perfected my mixer. Put elbows facing clockwise on all four corners making a whirlpool with 3/4 outlets and the center pointing strait down with same outlet. No more piles it's blowing rock chunks upto the 175 gallon mark! Third times a charm.


tymusic can you show us some pics of your brine mixer?


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

hitachiman 200;965854 said:


> tymusic can you show us some pics of your brine mixer?


Go to Drifter or Kubota's user name and check out there personal profile and there you will find all the pics of the sprayers and brine makers.

Think the pics might be posted already and P.S. only allows you to post the pics once on the site.


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

Thanks, I'll try there


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

No prob. Where in B.C. are you? Not much snow there eh?


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

*Making salt brine*

First thing you need


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Yikes! Thats gonna be one heck of an expensive brine


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

*Making salt brine*

Second thing


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

*making brine*

third thing


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DKG;969682 said:


> Second thing


Thanks for the pics. OK, so the hardest part still is getting the salt in the tank, mine too. Your tank is narrower than the skidsteer bucket also. I take it the Wiser's resolves those aches and pains from shoveling the salt? Maybe that's the key ingredient I'm forgetting.

1) How many gallons do you usually make at a time?
2) What do you do with your spoils? (leftover undissolved salt)
3) Do you use it just like it is in the second tank or add water to get 23%?
4) Sorry for all the questions, color me curious ussmileyflag


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## hitachiman 200 (Jan 17, 2010)

Grassman09;966826 said:


> No prob. Where in B.C. are you? Not much snow there eh?


I'm in Port Coquitlam, Have not had any snow here yet and only salted two nights all season


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

Today was the first time using my new brine maker. We made about 1100 gallons of brine this afternoon (4hrs) The leftover salt will be mixed into the sand-salt pile. The brine in the second tank is 23% and is pumped to the storage tanks. After making brine I enjoy the 40% liquid de-icer.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

DKG;969831 said:


> Today was the first time using my new brine maker. We made about 1100 gallons of brine this afternoon (4hrs) The leftover salt will be mixed into the sand-salt pile. The brine in the second tank is 23% and is pumped to the storage tanks. After making brine I enjoy the 40% liquid de-icer.


I'm surprised 1100 gallons of water will gravity feed through a 1" line in 4 hours. How many times do you need to clean the filter? Looks good, all you need is snow now.


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

Triple L;969656 said:


> Yikes! Thats gonna be one heck of an expensive brine


There's no brine like a fine brine!


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

Only had to clean the filter once. I may have to change the salt tomorrow, will see in the morning if the test is still good.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Great set up Keith. I should have brought my totes with me there today. 

I looked up that MSDS sheet.... 

Product Identifier: FUSION 
Registration No.: Not Applicable 
Chemical Class: De-icing solution 
Synonym: 

Active Ingredient (%) Degraded Sugar Beet Extract CAS NO.:	NA 

Chemical Name: 
Product Use: Road De-icer


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I hope it snows soon I havn't even used my new sprayer.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

OK, do you spray as anti-ice, de-ice, or pre-wet your salt, salt/sand at the spinner? Just curious as to what others are doing or how they are going about it? Right now, I'm busy enough making the equipment, making the brine, and selling the brine, that I'm not spraying, I'm back to spreading rock salt.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

JD Dave;969870 said:


> I hope it snows soon I havn't even used my new sprayer.


Will that de-ice the windshields too? Do you have to charge extra? :laughing:


----------



## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

JD Dave;969870 said:


> I hope it snows soon I havn't even used my new sprayer.


That looks sweet!!!


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

I use salt brine for anti-icing and for pre-wetting salt at the spinner. I tried posting pics of the spray equipment, but it didn't work. I figured before I put my fist through the monitor, I'd have another wisers and get someone else to do it tommorow.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Keith,

Go to the paper clip up top in the advanced menu a window opens hit browse select the folder where you up loaded the files to and submit then repeat for the other photos.

I'll come by with my totes and some payup payup tomorrow?


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

I tried that but it said the pictures had already been posted. NOT!!! I think it's just me.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DKG;969915 said:


> I use salt brine for anti-icing and for pre-wetting salt at the spinner. I tried posting pics of the spray equipment, but it didn't work. I figured before I put my fist through the monitor, I'd have another wisers and get someone else to do it tommorow.


If you have posted those pics before you will have to rename them in order to post them again, at least I think I remember that right. Right click, click rename, add a number or something to the pic name.

Brine setup looks good. The brine I have been making works pretty good even at lower temps with the calcium chloride kicker in it at 10%. Tomorrow I'm going to hook up my new pedestal 2" pump and 5hp electric motor to the brine maker, no more gas engine pump to mess with. Just flip the switch and have after it.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

DKG;969946 said:


> I tried that but it said the pictures had already been posted. NOT!!! I think it's just me.


Plowsite is a little bit like CNH tractors.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Kubota 8540;969950 said:


> Tomorrow I'm going to hook up my new pedestal 2" pump and 5hp electric motor to the brine maker, no more gas engine pump to mess with. Just flip the switch and have after it.


Where are the pictures???


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Grassman09;969958 said:


> Where are the pictures???


Tomorrow? :redbounce


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

This is getting very entertaining and yet so educational.:laughing:
Still subscribed. lurking and learning.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

I have to agree, this is turning into a pretty interesting thread!!!

Arnt you guys glad I made Dave start a liquids thread


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Kubota 8540;969962 said:


> Tomorrow? :redbounce


Ok that will do.



Triple L;969975 said:


> I have to agree, this is turning into a pretty interesting thread!!!
> 
> Arnt you guys glad I made Dave start a liquids thread


Thanks Chad. I owe you a  next time you are out this way.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Bajak;969972 said:


> This is getting very entertaining and yet so educational.:laughing:
> Still subscribed. lurking and learning.


Same here, keep the good info coming, maybe next year I can put it all together in one shot, a little bit of engineering from everyones unit


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

more than one way to skin a cat it seems  is that a conentrate brine you're collecting in the second container?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Grassman09;969958 said:


> Where are the pictures???


I have to run the electric and plumbing tomorrow. Now I'll have to sell 2500 gallons of brine to pay for it.


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

Im alergic to electric plumbing took me 2 days to wire my switch for the 3 way ball valve on my sprayer :laughing:


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DRIFTER92;970271 said:


> Im alergic to electric plumbing took me 2 days to wire my switch for the 3 way ball valve on my sprayer :laughing:


This won't be to bad, it's only 220 volts.


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

Yea... Drifter+220V=Hospital Visit


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm older and wiser now. I don't hook that kind of electric up live no more. Everything gets shut down at the source before anything gets touched nowadays! It can put your lights out and make you all fuzzy headed and numb. LOL


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

At least 220 Has enough kick to get you off of it, 110 likes to hang on bit too much for my liking  now i have a stu stu stu studda.  maybe thats the 12pk of natty light workin on me idk this thread is going to turn into an AA meeting i predict. Brine makers across Northern America turning to alcohol between during and after storms to meet market demands.... Its a friggin epidemic!


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

I have been wondering, once I get this brinemaker perfected, what I could use it for in the summer months?


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

The moon is shining bright hehe might be a bit salty but just add a bit of watermellon in the mixer tank, should be good to go!


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

margaritas ? little salt on the rim?


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

Id just find some copper tubing and some shine?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Yeah I don't think that pump would shave to much ice before it was junk. ..... So no margaritas......


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Has anyone had issues heavy matter falling out of the solution?? Or needing to keep the brine aggitated to prevent the salt from re crystalizing.... Finally a use for those bags of salt which turn to concrete, going to have to start buying them up. Often people/suppliers just give them away....


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

wasn't this an educational or informative thread at some point? I vaigly remember something informative about 2 pages ago...


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DAFFMOBILEWASH;970331 said:


> Has anyone had issues heavy matter falling out of the solution?? Or needing to keep the brine aggitated to prevent the salt from re crystalizing.... Finally a use for those bags of salt which turn to concrete, going to have to start buying them up. Often people/suppliers just give them away....


I have not with the salt brine, it stays at the 23-24% with no fallout. When I mixed 30%+ calcium chloride to it I had major fallout. Seems to me if your mix is to rich with salt you might end up with fallout.


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

DAFFMOBILEWASH;970331 said:


> Has anyone had issues heavy matter falling out of the solution?? Or needing to keep the brine aggitated to prevent the salt from re crystalizing.... Finally a use for those bags of salt which turn to concrete, going to have to start buying them up. Often people/suppliers just give them away....


I had bags that were mostly dust that worked the best, the bags added that were solid i busted like bags of ice so thats why my mixture lb/gallon have been off maybe? it separates in my mixer no clumps but maybe a reduced quality in brine output... I had to add an extra 2.5 bags (50lb) to get my mix up to 23.5%. Good point, but it might be my problem... Ill have to look into this a bit more. My skid was delivered on 2 pallets half was loose mix the other half was a hard pack bags.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

With the brine setup drifter and I have, it recirculates the water so it will eventually dissolve the salt even if it were hard bags broken in chunks. Of course ideally the salt would be like solar salt.


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

My next skid will be solar salt, does it desolve faster? Now that i have my mixer plumbing improved it will work better but i was over an hour to get it disolved with probably a bag left in the bottom, i miss measured and didnt get my 90 deg fittings on the bottom they are about 3 inches off which accumulated piles under the 4 corners now which i was afraid would happen, i moved the piles from the center on the sides to the corners now. The whirlpool effect works better but still not perfect.

Im almost to the point of putting a 3/8" piece of hose on the center pipe to just flop around and randomly stir the tank.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

More of it dissolves, it is a little finer, its like 99.8 % pure salt, but its more expensive unless you can catch a sale. Also makes the snow melt more softly.


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

So the determining factor for speed is the salt size. Has anyone tried to get pickeling salt or the powder stuff might be just the ticket.....


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DAFFMOBILEWASH;970531 said:


> So the determining factor for speed is the salt size. Has anyone tried to get pickeling salt or the powder stuff might be just the ticket.....


For me the determining factor is price. The bulk salt I use cost about 12 cents / gallon, solar salt cost me about .26/ gallon. This bulk salt I have this year has a lot of fines in it. If I didn't have vibrators on my spreader I'd have a real problem. It wouldn't go through it, it packs and stacks. However it works real good for brine making. The bulk I had last year made an excellent mud brine. It was a lot more coarse.

What does pickling salt cost and can you buy it by the ton?

Speaking of pickles, that where I stand right now. I cut my bulk order in 1/2 this year, because I was planning on doing more spraying. Then found myself in a situation where December was extreme and I'm also making salt brine for some local contractors and it has ate up my salt pile. But making and selling the brine in between snows keeps cash flowing.


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

Kubota 8540;970305 said:


> I have been wondering, once I get this brinemaker perfected, what I could use it for in the summer months?


Dust control products? I know more and more municipalities are making dust control mandatory during site development construction.
Just another thought. IDK.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Bajak;970863 said:


> Dust control products? I know more and more municipalities are making dust control mandatory during site development construction.
> Just another thought. IDK.


I have 32% liquid calcium chloride and have tried using it for dust control but its just not concentrated enough so maybe I could add in some flake to make a higher concentration for the summer use?


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

Kubota 8540;970873 said:


> I have 32% liquid calcium chloride and have tried using it for dust control but its just not concentrated enough so maybe I could add in some flake to make a higher concentration for the summer use?


I would think you could go as high as 45% @ 77*F before saturation point based on this diagram found here.
http://www.phasediagram.dk/binary/calcium_chloride.htm


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Kinda makes me wish I had of paid attention in Chemistry class, just didn't figure I would have ever needed it?
Seems to me 40% liquid calcium chloride solution is what is used around here for dust control. Would it be as simple as adding a certain amount of flake to the 32% I have and then measuring the specific gravity?


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

Kubota 8540;971021 said:


> Kinda makes me wish I had of paid attention in Chemistry class, just didn't figure I would have ever needed it?...I know..:laughing:
> 
> Seems to me 40% liquid calcium chloride solution is what is used around here for dust control. Would it be as simple as adding a certain amount of flake to the 32% I have and then measuring the specific gravity? Bingo!!!


I believe that is the way it is done cost efficiently. The Ministry of Environment does not allow certain applications in some areas around here and some other restrictions under provincial/state or municipal law. There are other chemicals used for residual effect for dust control too. I'm hoping to acquire some information in regards to better road management from my Dad who retired from being a road superintendent and attended better road management seminars about 6 years ago ( he has binders full of 'useless info.':laughing.


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

Kubota 8540;970873 said:


> I have 32% liquid calcium chloride and have tried using it for dust control but its just not concentrated enough so maybe I could add in some flake to make a higher concentration for the summer use?


You didn't think 32% was enough? Were you applying at .5 gallons per sq. yd.?
I do some private roads, and some for the local county and they request a minimum of 38% for cacl, and 31% minimum for mgcl


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

deicepro;971145 said:


> You didn't think 32% was enough? Were you applying at .5 gallons per sq. yd.?
> I do some private roads, and some for the local county and they request a minimum of 38% for cacl, and 31% minimum for mgcl


Are we talking de-icing or dust control? This thread is well worth my time IMO.
Thanks Grassman09. This has potential of becoming a year round educational tool.


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

Bajak;971177 said:


> Are we talking de-icing or dust control?


Sorry for jumpin' in, but, dust control is what I was talking about
Works great for me, same liquid just a little thicker in the summerpayup


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

deicepro;971145 said:


> You didn't think 32% was enough? Were you applying at .5 gallons per sq. yd.?
> I do some private roads, and some for the local county and they request a minimum of 38% for cacl, and 31% minimum for mgcl


Didn't know at what rate to apply at the time, but by going by your # , 32% may have worked. Seemed like a lot of liquid at the time but crunching the .5 gal/sq yd #, then the amount I applied was not enough. Only lasted for a couple weeks also.

Well, talking about de-icing, but dust control just blew in? I was testing out the sprayer this summer and decided to try and kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Sprayer worked great, dust control idea helped, but not a success.

I think 38-40% has to be kept above like 68 degrees F or it will crystallize?

Something I have noticed with the dust control. Where our gravel roads have been sprayed in the summer, the ice build up is terrible this winter?


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Speaking of dust control The Fusion and GEO Melt with out the chlorides in it is also being used for dust control. Then there is the Corn Enhanced Lignin stuff. I did some reading a lil wile back the the beat juice lasts longer then calcium and it can also be used when building the road bed and helps keep it stabilized. I hate how the local sod co uses oil. If I knew more about the Beat Juice for dust control I'd try and sell that to them. The other hurdle would be cost I'm sure the waste oil is cheap.

They are using cheese whey is some parts of the us as well. 

I think I'll go knocking on Bacardi's door in Brampton and see if I can use there distillates to make my own magic salt. 

Bajak no problem about starting a thread and to think someone had thought it was a stupid idea.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

> Bajak no problem about starting a thread and to think someone had thought it was a stupid idea.


Unfortunately, it just had to say CANADIAN in front of it, I feel so left out? LOL :laughing:


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Kubota 8540;971231 said:


> Unfortunately, it just had to say CANADIAN in front of it, I feel so left out? LOL :laughing:


Well like I said there was a complaint about why this thread was needed so in order not to ruffle any more features..

You are pretty close to the Canadian Border. I think a name change is in order. It should be the Ontario liquid De iceing and anti iceing. LOL


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Grassman09;971241 said:


> Well like I said there was a complaint about why this thread was needed so in order not to ruffle any more features..
> 
> You are pretty close to the Canadian Border. I think a name change is in order. It should be the Ontario liquid De iceing and anti iceing. LOL


I didn't pay attention in Chemistry class and now I know you didn't pay attention in Geography class. Illinois is just a little ways from the border? :laughing:


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Kubota 8540;971245 said:


> I didn't pay attention in Chemistry class and now I know you didn't pay attention in Geography class. Illinois is just a little ways from the border? :laughing:


I didn't pay attention in any one of those classes. Wait not true I did a lil in Chemistry. 
Now with health care reform you soon will be part of Canada. The USA will Join Canada and Quebec will be its own country. :laughing: Oh wait I think they are already.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Grassman09;971281 said:


> I didn't pay attention in any one of those classes. Wait not true I did a lil in Chemistry.
> Now with health care reform you soon will be part of Canada. The USA will Join Canada and Quebec will be its own country. :laughing: Oh wait I think they are already.


Which part of Chemistry class or shouldn't I ask? :laughing:

You forgot Mexico. I hope you guys will help with the cost of the health reform?:crying:


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Kubota 8540;971286 said:


> Which part of Chemistry class or shouldn't I ask? :laughing:
> 
> You forgot Mexico. I hope you guys will help with the cost of the health reform?:crying:


They Can be part of Quebec. What about Cuba LOL? I better quickly go buy what I need from the US quickly is that what you are telling me?

The price I paid for my skid Steer Trailer here I can buy two in the US.

So hows the iceing? Like the new pump I have a old motor in the basement I should try. I still have a 1 1/2" Gas pump I can use. I have to go get some parts for a brine tank now.


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

Someone a few posts ago asked about sadiment in the second tank. We made another 1100 gallons today. There was about 1/2" of really fine salt on the bottom, the filter on the pump never plugged so if any did go through it must have been really fine.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Grassman09;971298 said:


> They Can be part of Quebec. What about Cuba LOL? I better quickly go buy what I need from the US quickly is that what you are telling me?
> 
> The price I paid for my skid Steer Trailer here I can buy two in the US.
> 
> So hows the iceing? Like the new pump I have a old motor in the basement I should try. I still have a 1 1/2" Gas pump I can use. I have to go get some parts for a brine tank now.


Its weird but I have actually seen the prices start to go down here after many years of increases.

I don't understand why you guys don't get supplies / stores / suppliers like we have?
I've been salting a lot in the past few days and back to keeping strange hours. Took some pics of the pump/ motor last night thought thats what I would be working on today but that didnt happen. My biggest customer opens shop (greenhouse ) operations mid January and today was the day. 3/4 mile of 2 lane road hard pack and ice covered plus parking for employees, so I was there today. Not much notice, CAN"T GET UP THE HILL< EMPLOYEES CAN"T EITHER.......time to go. He hasn't wanted plowed or salted to keep up with it, he was trying to save money. Hell had to call the road commissioner to salt/chip the township road (2 mi ) just to get there. 5 mph and 4 wheel drive and the flat road was hair raising even for me. 

Hopefully tomorrow I'll get to working on the pump/ motor for the brinemaker, but I have to deliver 500 gallons of brine first.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

DKG;971325 said:


> Someone a few posts ago asked about sadiment in the second tank. We made another 1100 gallons today. There was about 1/2" of really fine salt on the bottom, the filter on the pump never plugged so if any did go through it must have been really fine.


Sorry about running over your hose today. Have you tried dumping your water trough out yet? I thought you said you were going to put flat bar over the top to hold the trough in when you dump it. Everything did look good when I was there, I was kind of hoping to see it running though.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DKG;971325 said:


> Someone a few posts ago asked about sadiment in the second tank. We made another 1100 gallons today. There was about 1/2" of really fine salt on the bottom, the filter on the pump never plugged so if any did go through it must have been really fine.


By chance do you know what mesh size the filter is? I just bought a y strainer and it came with a 20 mesh but I bought a 80 mesh also, which is a lot finer.
Just my opinion, but as long as it goes thru the spray tips, I don't see why I should filter it any smaller?


----------



## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

I may have to strap it down when dumping. We may run it again on Monday.


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

Kubota 8540;971346 said:


> By chance do you know what mesh size the filter is? I just bought a y strainer and it came with a 20 mesh but I bought a 80 mesh also, which is a lot finer.
> Just my opinion, but as long as it goes thru the spray tips, I don't see why I should filter it any smaller?


I'm not sure of the size, but the filter on the salt tank is coarser than the one on the pump. The sprayers have filters on them also, so the brine will have been filtered 4 times before it goes through the spray tips.


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

Kubota 8540;971218 said:


> Didn't know at what rate to apply at the time, but by going by your # , 32% may have worked. Seemed like a lot of liquid at the time but crunching the .5 gal/sq yd #, then the amount I applied was not enough. Only lasted for a couple weeks also.
> 
> Well, talking about de-icing, but dust control just blew in? I was testing out the sprayer this summer and decided to try and kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Sprayer worked great, dust control idea helped, but not a success.
> 
> ...


I stole that out of one of those binders full of useless information.

Kubota 8540.... I believe you have touched on the surface temperature subject yourself in other posts. Not to mention that ratios of CACL2/H2O can become slippery (different viscosity) in itself when it is out of equilibrium. Therefore, over application of CACL2 becomes a bit of a catch 22. I honestly don't know for sure under every circumstance.

I didn't mean to hijack the thread and hope Triple L doesn't hunt me down. LOL.. I just gave a suggestion to a presented question..... along with some relative information too I might add...:waving:


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Holy geez guys, that is gonna haunt me forever now it seems... 

I was simply pissed off i read 2 pages of info in the weather thread and felt like this topic should have its own thread... Since this thread was started its grown to a very very informative thread... I dont think near as much of this would have been talked about if still left in the weather thread... This is almost getting as bad as Mark O with his skid steer that needed to be equipped with flotation tires... Let it die already!


----------



## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Bajak;971435 said:


> I stole that out of one of those binders full of useless information.
> 
> Kubota 8540.... I believe you have touched on the surface temperature subject yourself in other posts. Not to mention that ratios of CACL2/H2O can become slippery (different viscosity) in itself when it is out of equilibrium. Therefore, over application of CACL2 becomes a bit of a catch 22. I honestly don't know for sure under every circumstance.
> 
> I didn't mean to hijack the thread and hope Triple L doesn't hunt me down. LOL.. I just gave a suggestion to a presented question..... along with some relative information too I might add...:waving:


Well it seems those binders actually have some pretty good useless info in them. Unfortunately I haven't had as much time as I thought I would to do some experimenting with different liquids and different surface temps. Just got going to many different directions with building sprayers and making / selling brine and doing sprayer repairs. But for all that I have tried, none will replace rock salt. If it's going to cost as much as rock salt, I might as well use rock salt? But different products for different situations and different temps is nice to have, to be able to squeeze out every dollar I can make, without doing more work.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Kubota 8540;971632 said:


> But different products for different situations and different temps is nice to have, to be able to squeeze out every dollar I can make, without doing more work.


Yea I can see me having a Tote With Geo Melt & Brine, Brine, Brine and Calcium.

Or just buy the Epoke spreader like they use in the Hi ways here that can spread salt or spray the road or both.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Grassman09;971664 said:


> Yea I can see me having a Tote With Geo Melt & Brine, Brine, Brine and Calcium.
> 
> Or just buy the Epoke spreader like they use in the Hi ways here that can spread salt or spray the road or both.


I still have my 1 ton 4x4 Chevy, it use to be my ole work horse. Although I use the Kubota for everything now. I would like to set the Chev up with a small v box spreader and small sprayer. I think that would be ideal. I have been toying with the idea of selling off the Kubota set up in the near future.


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

Has anyone ever made liquid mag or cal? I am wondering if it can be done by adding the correct # of bags to the specified gallons of water and agitating, or do you use the upside down overgrown coffee maker method used for salt brine?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DKG;972079 said:


> Has anyone ever made liquid mag or cal? I am wondering if it can be done by adding the correct # of bags to the specified gallons of water and agitating, or do you use the upside down overgrown coffee maker method used for salt brine?


A while back there was a Non-Canadian liquids thread that stated the amounts of bag product to add to # of gallons of water to make liquid mag and cal chloride. It was stated that simply adding bag product to water then agitate. If I happen across it I will post the link.


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

DKG;972079 said:


> Has anyone ever made liquid mag or cal? I am wondering if it can be done by adding the correct # of bags to the specified gallons of water and agitating, or do you use the upside down overgrown coffee maker method used for salt brine?


I make 30,000+ gal of cal every year, the number of bags depend on how "hot" you want it
Between 12 and 17 bags of ANHYDROUS cal. I wont mess with the dihidrate or hexahydrate bags
I am quite used to the cal, but you guys are all talkin about nacl brine, so I mixed 250 gal up and Im sorry to say I dont think I can use it, quite weak compared to the cal, obviously


----------



## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

deicepro;972357 said:


> I make 30,000+ gal of cal every year, the number of bags depend on how "hot" you want it
> Between 12 and 17 bags of ANHYDROUS cal. I wont mess with the dihidrate or hexahydrate bags
> I am quite used to the cal, but you guys are all talkin about nacl brine, so I mixed 250 gal up and Im sorry to say I dont think I can use it, quite weak compared to the cal, obviously


Mixing that quantity,(30000) what does that come out to per gallon ? If you don't mind me asking?

I always add min 10% cal to the salt brine.


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

Kubota 8540;972544 said:


> Mixing that quantity,(30000) what does that come out to per gallon ? If you don't mind me asking?
> 
> I always add min 10% cal to the salt brine.


It depends on how cheap I can buy the cal., but I have made it as cheap as $.54 per gallon for the 29.6% solution. I can buy it off the rail car for $.31 per gallon, BUT you only get xx amount of hours to unload 18,000 gallons, plus cost for ground space for storage tanks must be semi close to the spur.......I have a friend that owns property next to the RR but I think it would be too much hassle, unless I was really gonna move some gallons


----------



## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

deicepro;972564 said:


> It depends on how cheap I can buy the cal., but I have made it as cheap as $.54 per gallon for the 29.6% solution. I can buy it off the rail car for $.31 per gallon, BUT you only get xx amount of hours to unload 18,000 gallons, plus cost for ground space for storage tanks must be semi close to the spur.......I have a friend that owns property next to the RR but I think it would be too much hassle, unless I was really gonna move some gallons


So 32% Liquidow , .60 / gallon @ 4,000 gal delivered Is a good price that I was quoted.


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

Kubota 8540;973029 said:


> So 32% Liquidow , .60 / gallon @ 4,000 gal delivered Is a good price that I was quoted.


Sounds ok to me, ask for a MSDS before you order, or you could maybe look it up online


----------



## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

I think I figured out how to do this picture thing.
































I


----------



## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

*Some more pictures*

Boominator nozzle


----------



## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

*Pre-wetting*


----------



## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Very nice set-up Keith!

Is it worth while? Would you mind telling how much have you reduced your salt usage with this outfit or by pre-wetting?


----------



## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

I have not seen a reduction in salt use by pre-wetting, it helps kick start it abit. This winter so far I have seen a reduction by appyling straight liquid.


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Triple L;957616 said:


> Has anyone tried that orangish pre treated salt, I think its called thaw rocks... My supplier has a crap load of it, the price is alright, just wondering if anyone uses it and what you've thought and if its worth it or if its just clearlane everywhere?


I use it exclusively now... and it definitly cut my salt usage. 1and 1/2 tonne does my commercial route. Used to be 3 tonne with straight salt. Saves me time,material,storage.  It was a mix up I originally wanted Magic, but the supplier was delivering Thawroxs to the County so I jumped on board for a better price. Still wouldn't mind testing out Magic. (Rum by product!!!) Does that count as open liquor...?


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Mr.Markus;984215 said:


> Does that count as open liquor...?


Yea be carefull you are not talking on your cell phone and have Magic on board as well. They will have a field day with you.:laughing:

Triple,
I bought some of that Thawroxs stuff last year and liked it as well. Talk to Pristine Property I bought 12tons of it last year from his supplier and then it stopped snowing.

The Calcium residual was good for light snowfalls.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DKG, nice set up(s) looks like they all work really well. Good to see you got the picture thing figured out. Which do you like better, the Boominator or the spray bar? Also, your spray bar looks like it sprays about 16'? I just got 3 new flood fan spray nozzle to try out, each one is suppose to spray 5' wide flood fan pattern.


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

This year we seem to like the spray bar better.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DKG;984261 said:


> This year we seem to like the spray bar better.


Are you spraying before or after the snow?


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

I try to spray in advance, but recently we have have been experimenting with liquid de-icing, mainly with light accumulations(1cm or less)


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Looks good Keith. Put those pictures in your album in your user CP. If you can't figure it out I'll do it for you .


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DKG;984417 said:


> I try to spray in advance, but recently we have have been experimenting with liquid de-icing, mainly with light accumulations(1cm or less)


I should have went out and sprayed last night before we got this 1.5 cm skiff. But the corn burner and Plowsite held me back.  So I went out this morning 27F and sprayed. I applied it kind of heavy 375 / 4 acres but I wanted it burnt off fast. I would rather spray before it snows if possible. I could have done the same melt with less liquid if I had of. But at 12 cents a gallon? Next time....


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

12 cents a gallon? Is that just the material cost, or is some labour to make the brine in there too?


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## DKG (Feb 3, 2008)

JD Dave;984437 said:


> Looks good Keith. Put those pictures in your album in your user CP. If you can't figure it out I'll do it for you .


I think I figured out huw to do that this afternoon. I will try in the next few days


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

Setup looks good Keith.

We've been using the Thawrox - so far, so good. Same as another product that we used last year, rhymed with daliber. Just a different name and colour due to liscencing issues (so we were told.)

Sprayed this afternoon - so far everythings staying wet, nothing sticking.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DKG;984735 said:


> 12 cents a gallon? Is that just the material cost, or is some labour to make the brine in there too?


Unfortunately thats just material cost. Tried a different supplier that had state spec salt, instead of buying from the pile 4 miles from my shop, I had it trucked 65 miles 1 way, a little finer grain and more powder. Works really good to make brine, no spoils. But more $$. I've made approx 6,000 gallons of brine and only 3-5mm grit in the bottom of the brinemaker tote tank and have never had to dump it or clean it out yet? But this stuff doesn't go thru the spreader with out both vibrators.


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## DRIFTER92 (Oct 7, 2009)

Just made 300 gallons of miracle melt (SAMs club) 14 50 lb bags. For experamental purposes. It came up at 18.5% salt brine on my hydrometer. With strait brine I'm up at 23.5%. But being that there are other hemicals I will try this and see what happens. I've heard you can have refreeze from over 24 and under 22.5. The bags were $7/50lb. If it works better might be worth it till I can get in with a good farmer local to get my chemicals. I'll let u guys know what happens.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

GMC Driver;984819 said:


> Setup looks good Keith.
> 
> We've been using the Thawrox - so far, so good. Same as another product that we used last year, rhymed with daliber. Just a different name and colour due to liscencing issues (so we were told.)
> 
> Sprayed this afternoon - so far everythings staying wet, nothing sticking.


Dave,

The pictures of your rittenhouse system are missing.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

They were missing. Found them back.

Had Rittenhouse build this system - it's there "starter" unit with some additions. 12V pump, with remote boom spray, as well as additional hand held spray available. Tank is a 300 gal fitted tank - fits nicely for this application.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks Dave. Is that tank baffled? How fast can you drive spraying and what liquid are you using there? 

Dave.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

No baffles - the tank has a wood frame we built to keep it from shifting - blocks on a piece of 3/4" plywood. That way the weight isn't on the top of the bed rails, but on the bottom of the tank. Works slick - have no movement, little sloshing effect.

When spraying, we run about the same speed as salting - no faster than 10-12 MPH. Coverage is pretty good - the boom has 6 nozzles, at 1GPM each. Pump is good for 7GPM. Do wish the boom was a bit bigger - but for what we're doing, works fine. If we go bigger, I'll look into a larger boom next time. Boom works remote from the cab, and has performed with no problems to date.

We're using the manufactured brine - 23.3%. And beet juice.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Ohh ok. I picked up a old 300gal lawn sprayer this week with hose real plan to stick that in one of my pickups next year. I made a few batches of brine up today and some beet juice its a 15% juice mix I'm not sure if I'm going to need higher. I know 30% is the lowest that is sold retail. The juice is too expensive to use even at 10 or 15%. Calcium Chloride is cheaper to use. This road salt is so dirty clogs my filters up fast. I think I can get water softener salt for the same price as road salt.


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## Bill QT (Nov 17, 2009)

Grassman, be careful. I contaminated 200 gals of LCC with oil, because the diaphrams in the hypro pump cracked and drained oil into the holding tank, which I then procceded to spray on 4 customers lots. I am probably a *******, but it was 3 am, and I did not catch it till I got home. Bill


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

The block on the pump is cracked already so I plan to ditch that and I don't know if it can produce the volume. I'll just use the pacer pump I have now. 

I appreciate the heads up.

Dave.


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## alwaysgotit (Feb 18, 2010)

We have liquids both calcium 32% and a 50 50 mix....calcium and brine can be bought in totes or tanker loads


grassman09;957413 said:


> yes!!! :laughing: :
> 
> No we just don't have access to all the ones you guys do and parts stores to get all the stuff.
> 
> ...


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

alwaysgotit;1012891 said:


> We have liquids both calcium 32% and a 50 50 mix....calcium and brine can be bought in totes or tanker loads


Thanks but I'm in Canada you are around 6 hours away from me. I can make my own and the max I'd add to salt brine is 10% 50 50 is waaaaaay to much. I've used 10% and it works great.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

So Dave what your verdict on liquids now that you've gotten to use them for a while... Is it worth it, do they work, are you still spreading any rock salt, savin any money???


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Triple L;1013227 said:


> So Dave what your verdict on liquids now that you've gotten to use them for a while... Is it worth it, do they work, are you still spreading any rock salt, savin any money???


Sadly I wont know until next season. Now its too warm to pre treat with liquids. I just started to make salt brine last week and that was a process with bulk its really dirty and plugs the filters up and slows the process down. I can get water softener salt for the same price as bulk and in bulk form to.

Beat juice and brine is too costly to spray. I will most likely make liquid calcium and run a 90 brine and 10% Calcium mix and maybe some juice just for color. The juice foams up allot especially with a 2" Return line to the tote. I need to insert the return at the bottom of the tank so it does not foam up.

The boom is not spraying wide enough for me I need to increase the pressure I think.

I will make a better and adjustable mount for the boom also.

But considering you can make allot more liquid with salt then you can spread I'd say I will be on the savings end.

At the moment too much sloshing to keep the tank on while plowing I will need to baffle the tank that came with the 300 gal Lesco lawn sprayer I bought last week.

The system might work good for dust control.


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

For anyone who wants to make any tank slosh proof I have the cheap solution!!!! Buy a 50' roll of 4" big O and stuff the tank full..... Cut off the excess and voila instant baffles!!!! 


As for the spray bars I think the best idea is the boominator, Stay away from the typicial sprayer diaphram or gear pumps the seem to get destroyed from the caustic nature of the liquids. Remember to design with a backup plan !!!!


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

DAFFMOBILEWASH;1013549 said:


> For anyone who wants to make any tank slosh proof I have the cheap solution!!!! Buy a 50' roll of 4" big O and stuff the tank full..... Cut off the excess and voila instant baffles!!!!
> 
> As for the spray bars I think the best idea is the boominator, Stay away from the typicial sprayer diaphram or gear pumps the seem to get destroyed from the caustic nature of the liquids. Remember to design with a backup plan !!!!


Whats 4" big O ?

Grassman you may want to look into some Boombuster nozzles 30-60' ?


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

DAFFMOBILEWASH;1013549 said:


> For anyone who wants to make any tank slosh proof I have the cheap solution!!!! Buy a 50' roll of 4" big O and stuff the tank full..... Cut off the excess and voila instant baffles!!!!
> 
> As for the spray bars I think the best idea is the boominator, Stay away from the typicial sprayer diaphram or gear pumps the seem to get destroyed from the caustic nature of the liquids. Remember to design with a backup plan !!!!


My pump is meant for Farm Chemicals and what not. Its a Pacer from princess auto its plastic or fiberglass.

Boominator will prob drift in the wind and you might not be applying enough liquid. 
A full rubber skirt like the city trucks use I think will stop drifting.

You are the 2nd one to recommend big o I need to try it out. :salute:

As for back up. Well I'll build a 2nd bar and I can always chuck the salter back on.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Kubota 8540;1013552 said:


> Whats 4" big O ?
> 
> Grassman you may want to look into some Boombuster nozzles 30-60' ?


4" drainage tile. Big O is just the manufacturer around here.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

JD Dave;1013566 said:


> 4" drainage tile. Big O is just the manufacturer around here.


Corrugated 4" perforated Black plastic tubing?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Kubota 8540;1013570 said:


> Corrugated 4" perforated Black plastic tubing?


Yes..............


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Thats a good idea, the baffle balls or pre-made surge protectors are rather expensive.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Kubota 8540;1013578 said:


> Thats a good idea, the baffle balls or pre-made surge protectors are rather expensive.


Never heard of using it before but it's a very good idea. Thanks Daff.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Kubota 8540;1013552 said:


> Whats 4" big O ?
> 
> Grassman you may want to look into some Boombuster nozzles 30-60' ?


But he said boominator. But for the price of those you can build what 3 simple spray bars with Stream jet tips and single check vavle body's and $ 1" electrical pvc conduit from home depot?

Will you get drifting with the boombusters? I think those are around $300 a pop.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Grassman09;1013583 said:


> But he said boominator. But for the price of those you can build what 3 simple spray bars with Stream jet tips and single check vavle body's and $ 1" electrical pvc conduit from home depot?
> 
> Will you get drifting with the boombusters? I think those are around $300 a pop.


They produce very large droplets, little drift. Dultmeier has them about $200 or if you want the 3/4" size ( 29' ) each, the guy I bought mine off of will sell them for $100/ pair? NEW !


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

Big 'O' : http://www.bigodrain.ca/

Good idea for a baffle!


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

I wonder if just cutting pieces to put in the tank would work well enough. I don't think I'd be able to get much 4" into my 305 gallon tank?


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

Just curious......will the corrugated tile drain fast enough?
Great idea. The tile in our area only has small "slits".
What about 4" rigid sewer pipe with the 1/2" holes, cut into pieces to fit your specific tank?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

deicepro;1013620 said:


> Just curious......will the corrugated tile drain fast enough?
> Great idea. The tile in our area only has small "slits".
> What about 4" rigid sewer pipe with the 1/2" holes, cut into pieces to fit your specific tank?


I was wondering about the sewer pipe too. Slow draining maybe? But cut into pieces and put in the tank? The corrugated will definitely hold some liquid but better than the push/slosh of the liquid.

OK who's going to cut up some drainage tubing or sewer pipe to find out?


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Kubota 8540;1013623 said:


> I was wondering about the sewer pipe too. Slow draining maybe? But cut into pieces and put in the tank? The corrugated will definitely hold some liquid but better than the push/slosh of the liquid.
> 
> OK who's going to cut up some drainage tubing or sewer pipe to find out?


I'll do it. I got a full roll kicking around. Should be warn enuf later in the week to play with water.


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## turn54 (Jan 7, 2010)

*3" perforated tile as tank baffle*

I put about 150' of 3" perforated tile in my 200 gallon tank at the beginning of the season and it made a world of difference. I couldn't believe it could fit that much. it was very cheap in comparison to premanufactured baffle balls. I did lose about 15 gallons of capacity out of the tank but it has no problem with draining fast enough and is alot easier on my 3/4 ton truck even plowing when half full or completely full. I did have it cut into about 5 or 6 different pieces just to make it more managable to stuff in there.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

turn54;1013896 said:


> I put about 150' of 3" perforated tile in my 200 gallon tank at the beginning of the season and it made a world of difference. I couldn't believe it could fit that much. it was very cheap in comparison to premanufactured baffle balls. I did lose about 15 gallons of capacity out of the tank but it has no problem with draining fast enough and is alot easier on my 3/4 ton truck even plowing when half full or completely full. I did have it cut into about 5 or 6 different pieces just to make it more managable to stuff in there.


Did it have the round holes in it or just the slits?


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## turn54 (Jan 7, 2010)

just the slits. Only downfall is it's harder to tell the level of the liquid in tank, But my tank is also a darker plastic


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