# lost biggest account to beet juice!!!



## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

Well I have now heard it all we lost a very large account to some body who says there going to use beet juice as ice melter for the parking lot. has anyone ever heard of this before????


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## Snowguy01 (Jul 23, 2007)

I have herd of beet juice in our liquid salt up here to lower the temp rate that it would melt at. that came from one of our state plow drivers


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

04red2500;614847 said:


> Well I have now heard it all we lost a very large account to some body who says there going to use beet juice as ice melter for the parking lot. has anyone ever heard of this before????


you could use it as well -

its one part of lots of experimenting im doing this yr


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## dmontgomery (Oct 3, 2003)

there are cities using it around here.........


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

dmontgomery;615004 said:


> there are cities using it around here.........


Straight beet juice? Are you sure they just aren't using it as a carrier like everyone else is.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

Did you lose the account because of price?


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## dmontgomery (Oct 3, 2003)

I cannot swear to that, let me look and I will get back to you.......


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## BORIS (Oct 22, 2008)

Do not use beet juice!!!! I know a guy that had to replace 10 garage doors and carpet in the entry ways of four buildings due to the staining from the juice.


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## dmontgomery (Oct 3, 2003)

they are mixing it with the Brine.....for pre-treatment it seems mainly


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

dmontgomery;615052 said:


> they are mixing it with the Brine.....for pre-treatment it seems mainly


I was going to call you a an idiot, like you did to me in another thread but I thought I would give you a chance to correct yourself. Beet juice has to have a carrier or it is useless.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

JD Dave;615053 said:


> I was going to call you a an idiot, like you did to me in another thread but I thought I would give you a chance to correct yourself


At least you're not bitter about it and were able to let it go...


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## SnowMatt13 (Jan 8, 2003)

We are blending a solution that is primarily beet juice (Geomelt 55) with salt brine this year at an 80/20 mix (80% brine, 20% Geomelt).
We will be using is both for anti-icing (pre-storm) and pre-weeting at the spinner as we apply the product.
Salt brine alone only allowed me to us it when pavement temps were +15F or higer. This ratio will let me work in the 0 degree range.
Yes, the beet juice tracks....it is a lot thicker than just brine (and stinks too) but that is what makes it ahere to the pavement better, especiallly in pre-storm treatments.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Camden;615060 said:


> At least you're not bitter about it and were able to let it go...


I can forgive but I can't forget. LOL


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

check out the video i posted under the title Geomelt


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

This is a sign of the times guys... Last year I had a couple of major corporate accounts request organic fertilizer. Theses companies want to use the word "organic" in their marketing. There are also several new green certifications that companies want to earn at tout... kind of like ISO9000 manufacturing processes.

I just attended a luncheon where the CEO of a major property mgmt co basically urged HOAs to demand green mowing techniques like... not mowing in the mid-day heat because it's shown to use mow fuel. We all know it isn't realistic, but the office types are'nt always realistic, are they?

I'd say, put together all the info you can against beet juice... tracking, etc... What if customers step into their beige car interior and stain the carpet, etc...? Then explain why it makes more sense for public roads, not private lots. jmo


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

04red2500;614847 said:


> Well I have now heard it all we lost a very large account to some body who says there going to use beet juice as ice melter for the parking lot. has anyone ever heard of this before????


Red, could you pm me the name the site? Would love to observe the results as the winter progresses.


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## Grn Mtn (Sep 21, 2004)

04red2500;614847 said:


> ......has anyone ever heard of this before????


to answer a question with a question, have you?

times are changing and we must stay ahead of the pack, the market is demanding "greener" solutions and it is our job to educate our customers which is the best solution for their area.

you should ask your distributors if they are selling any mixed products and if so are those manufactures going to have a free information seminar some time soon (if not already). lots can be learned by a little internet searching too.

check out a product called SWP, its made around here so not sure if you have it available to you but I'm sure someone has something similar.

good luck, and don't lose another account due to salt only.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Don't lose another account to salt only?!? It's still the best thing you can do. You basically need to commit and offer one or the other.

The real challenge will be to have the ability to offer _ALL_ of your customers both. Conversion costs to deliver both across the board is unlikely for most. The real commitment of equipment and material required won't be easy or standard.

Yea "Greener". They all love the term.................fantastic marketing. People aren't going liquid because it's the latest and greatest and greener. The lack of ability to attain and afford salt this year is the predicament. Driving numbers down is the other problem.

I'm thinking most people here have to commit to one or the other. Carcinogens, nasty tracking, accelerated corrosion along inconsistent brine batches are real concerns with liquids. I think we'll see a real trial and error happening this year with liquids.


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## plownoob (Aug 14, 2008)

so whats the net green effect when people buy more chemicles like carpet stain remover to get rid of the beet juice?


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Thinking like that will ruin the whole green thing.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

With big companies its about staying ahead of the game. This year I will be using Magic O, or Ice Be Gone. Its around 70% less corrosive than salt or brine. A system on my truck will cost about the same as a vbox spreader, its really not that big an investment. Becoming informed on how to use these materials will take more time to learn. This knowledge will be worth something compared to just spreading salt. So I have two options to give to my clients. Its a greener option I can offer my clients, one that some are willing to pay more for. I no longer want to be just a snow plow company. I want to be a snow and ice management company. I will continue to keep informed on all the new ways of doing this. It is the main reason I became a SIMA member. Its why I read so much on this site. I want to stay ahead of my competition, and keep my clients.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

know of a company that wont let there snow contractor put anything but sand down. apparently there is a drinking water or something for the town nearby and they are not allowed to due to the possibility of tainting the water.
just thought i would throw this in since going green deicers are the topic.
im sure there are other alternatives to sand and the company probably doensnt want to pay for it.


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## Vaughn Schultz (Nov 18, 2004)

Neige;615740 said:


> With big companies its about staying ahead of the game. This year I will be using Magic O, or Ice Be Gone. Its around 70% less corrosive than salt or brine. A system on my truck will cost about the same as a vbox spreader, its really not that big an investment. Becoming informed on how to use these materials will take more time to learn. This knowledge will be worth something compared to just spreading salt. So I have two options to give to my clients. Its a greener option I can offer my clients, one that some are willing to pay more for. I no longer want to be just a snow plow company. I want to be a snow and ice management company. I will continue to keep informed on all the new ways of doing this. It is the main reason I became a SIMA member. Its why I read so much on this site. I want to stay ahead of my competition, and keep my clients.


wow  touching


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## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

Thanx for all the input. Now does anyone have any any document on the negative effects of beet jucie???


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## rblake (Nov 17, 2007)

I have been using beet juice close to 7 years treating my bulk salt. I have increased my # of accounts because property managers like the idea that you can get rid of snow & ice at cold temperatures. Times change


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

04red2500;614847 said:


> Well I have now heard it all we lost a very large account to some body who says there going to use beet juice as ice melter for the parking lot. has anyone ever heard of this before????


Can you believe that? Next thing you know, they'll be using them thar liquids to melt snow and ice.

Not to be an ass, but where have you been?



BORIS;615042 said:


> Do not use beet juice!!!! I know a guy that had to replace 10 garage doors and carpet in the entry ways of four buildings due to the staining from the juice.


Was this your friend's uncle's girlfriend's niece's aunt's best friend? Can you give more info than this? Like at what rate? Was he using it as an anti-icing agent or de-icing? Mixed with a brine or straight?

You've got to have a lot more info and credibility than this to make such a strong statement.



Grn Mtn;615417 said:


> to answer a question with a question, have you?
> 
> times are changing and we must stay ahead of the pack, the market is demanding "greener" solutions and it is our job to educate our customers which is the best solution for their area.
> 
> ...


Bingo and excellent advice.



TCLA;615448 said:


> Don't lose another account to salt only?!? It's still the best thing you can do. You basically need to commit and offer one or the other.
> 
> It is? You've personally used every de-icing chemical available and know that salt--despite its doubling\tripling in cost--is the best thing out there? Wow, you must be the next John Allin.
> 
> ...


Carcinogens? In what? Throwing out illegitimate concerns or facts? Back up your statements with facts or keep your mouth shut.

Accelerated corrosion with what products? You realize beet juice is a corrosion inhibitor? Maybe you can tell me why since you seem to be so well informed? Same goes for Magic, Ice Ban, Caliber, etc. Why does it reduce corrosion?

I've been using liquids for 7 years, so the only trial and error will be rates for de-icing applications and the best formulation.



Neige;615740 said:


> With big companies its about staying ahead of the game. This year I will be using Magic O, or Ice Be Gone. Its around 70% less corrosive than salt or brine. A system on my truck will cost about the same as a vbox spreader, its really not that big an investment. Becoming informed on how to use these materials will take more time to learn. This knowledge will be worth something compared to just spreading salt. So I have two options to give to my clients. Its a greener option I can offer my clients, one that some are willing to pay more for. I no longer want to be just a snow plow company. I want to be a snow and ice management company. I will continue to keep informed on all the new ways of doing this. It is the main reason I became a SIMA member. Its why I read so much on this site. I want to stay ahead of my competition, and keep my clients.


Here is a wise man, willing to put his money where his mouth is and not be negative about anything new and unproven. You would be wise to listen and ask questions.



rblake;616978 said:


> I have been using beet juice close to 7 years treating my bulk salt. I have increased my # of accounts because property managers like the idea that you can get rid of snow & ice at cold temperatures. Times change


Nice summary to the whole discussion. I started treating my bulk with it towards the end of last year to stretch out my supply of salt. Worked fantastic. Actually, I used it several years ago when Clearlane was bulk salt treated with beet juice, then Cargill lost some patent lawsuit and changed it. Anyways, not a single complaint about tracking, color or anything else, just fantastic results.

PS You guys that are so negative, are your plows angled with hydraulics or manually?


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Panties in a bunch Mark? You appear to read much more into things than what they are. Where did I state I personally used every de-iceing chemical available? Though I do have a good amount of experience with the acetates.

And I am not held hostage by the salt companies. Quite the contrary.

The challenge to offer both to all customers is from my perspective. We run 30 salt rigs and at this time and can't offer both liquid and salt across the board...........hence the conversion challenge. Test tracks, special areas and certain sites will receive liquid this year from us.

Since you are Mr. Smarty pants, I'll leave it for you to figure out what liquids out there that some will be using has carcinogens.

And we all know you are just full of positive energy.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

TCLA;617799 said:


> Panties in a bunch Mark? You appear to read much more into things than what they are. Where did I state I personally used every de-iceing chemical available? Though I do have a good amount of experience with the acetates.
> 
> And I am not held hostage by the salt companies. Quite the contrary.
> 
> ...


Yup, but they're unbunched now. What a relief.

Maybe I did, but you appeared to state that because salt is so widely available that it is the only option. Must be I misread that. And because of that misreading, I just assumed that you had tried everything available and knew salt was the only option.

Good to hear that you've used acetates, I haven't. Care to share, because that's what this forum is all about.

Even better about not being held hostage, I have chosen to not be either.

Good to hear you are working on new technologies to stay ahead of the competition.

Thanks for the challenge, but I'm going to just wimp out on it. I'd rather have someone that made a statement back it up.

Think snow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(How's that for positive?)


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;617814 said:


> Yup, but they're unbunched now. What a relief.
> 
> Maybe I did, but you appeared to state that because salt is so widely available that it is the only option.
> No I did not! I will say it is available to all....but at a rip-off price.
> ...


Better.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

I'm going back to wood ash to be enviromentally friendlier than all you guys put together.
WOW!!!!


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## NorthDakota (Oct 11, 2008)

I work at local university and we use beet juice on our street and lots as much as possible. We use a clear liquid deicer on our sidewalks and if it gets too cold we go to a granule. The beat juice is also mixed with sand if the temp falls below about 10 below. With the beat juice there is a lot less clean up of sand on boulevards, lots and streets. I would recommend the beet juice.


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## Butcher (Sep 30, 2008)

Cities and state used beet juice last year in NE Ohio and I had one heck of a time getting it off my truck this past spring. spent 5 hours on just the rims alone. After I got it off had to buff the clear coat to get all the scratches off. What a mess. Might be good for the roads and to lower the temp of the brine to work but sure will mess up a paint job and crome wheels.


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## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

Just thought i would post that we ended up getting the account after all. Turns out the guy that thought he was in charge wasnt really in charge his boss love our work last year so we got it back after the guy had already told the other company that they had the contract i guess they were less then happy about that(seeings how they had leased a piece of equipment for the lot) sorry bout his luck:yow!::yow!:


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## dmontgomery (Oct 3, 2003)

where are people buying their (beet juice) Geomelt


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## jlouki01 (Sep 21, 2006)

Ohio Dept. of Trans are pre-wetting their salt with it. 
I will dig you up an article on the subject..


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## Lawn Tech LLC. (Jan 20, 2008)

*Midwest*

We work outside of St. Louis MO and seem to be a couple of years behind the East Cost. Please do not shoot me but this is the first time I have heard of using Beet Juice. Is this used as a pretreatment or post? I hope I can ask this question without the Rath of the snow plow community falling upon me. I read and ask questions to learn. You say that salt can be treated with beet juice. What about Calcium? Do I get the same benefits?


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Lawn Tech LLC.;621750 said:


> We work outside of St. Louis MO and seem to be a couple of years behind the East Cost. Please do not shoot me but this is the first time I have heard of using Beet Juice. Is this used as a pretreatment or post? I hope I can ask this question without the Rath of the snow plow community falling upon me. I read and ask questions to learn. You say that salt can be treated with beet juice. What about Calcium? Do I get the same benefits?


the state started using it here in maine a while back. If you punch in Maine and beetjuice in a search engine you will probably come up with some info.
All i know is they say it is more expensive and leaves a film on cars. But from what i have read, no , it doesnt stain anything.


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## Ducke (Oct 14, 2008)

Ya want to know whats real weird , last year we used beet juice as a weed control on lawns.
Didn't really kill the weeds but sure made your lawn grow green.


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## tbrownell (Nov 24, 2007)

M-DOT here in Kalamazoo has been using it on I94 for around the last 10-12 years. they apply it with a long convoy of tankers during the dry weather before the storm. I cant say a whole lot about if it was melting the ice but it sure keeps the ice and snow from sticking to the road and scrapes a lot cleaner. I believe it also lasts for a few weeks depending on how bad the storms were.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

dmontgomery;618316 said:


> where are people buying their (beet juice) Geomelt


Road Solutions Inc. They're in Indy



Lawn Tech LLC.;621750 said:


> We work outside of St. Louis MO and seem to be a couple of years behind the East Cost. Please do not shoot me but this is the first time I have heard of using Beet Juice. Is this used as a pretreatment or post? I hope I can ask this question without the Rath of the snow plow community falling upon me. I read and ask questions to learn. You say that salt can be treated with beet juice. What about Calcium? Do I get the same benefits?


IMO, beet juice is better than calcium because the benefits are the same without the corrosiveness (sp?) of calcium.

There are some people blending it with different brines to reduce the tracking--very sticky and dark and smelly--as well as the smell for anti-icing. Not sure if anyone is using it as a de-icer. I know I wouldn't ever use it without blending.

Yes, it can be used to treat salt with fantastic results.



tbrownell;623139 said:


> M-DOT here in Kalamazoo has been using it on I94 for around the last 10-12 years. they apply it with a long convoy of tankers during the dry weather before the storm. I cant say a whole lot about if it was melting the ice but it sure keeps the ice and snow from sticking to the road and scrapes a lot cleaner. I believe it also lasts for a few weeks depending on how bad the storms were.


You sure? They had been using Caliber M1000, they may have changed, but I know for a long, long time they were using that. Before that it was straight mag chloride. This was about 7 years ago, same time we started anti-icing with liquids.

And the convoy isn't that big, is it? Don't they just use that 5000 gallon tanker?


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