# lost reverse



## traviswalker007 (Oct 13, 2006)

2003 chevy silverado 3500 4x4. was out plowing last night and lost reverse??? have all other gears plus 4x4, when i put it in reverse the drive shaft does not spin...any ideas


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## exmark1 (Nov 30, 2005)

traviswalker007;457728 said:


> 2003 chevy silverado 3500 4x4. was out plowing last night and lost reverse??? have all other gears plus 4x4, when i put it in reverse the drive shaft does not spin...any ideas


Sounds like you lost reverse in the transmission just like you said... Most likely needs to be rebuilt by a professional!


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## dakotasrock (Mar 23, 2006)

Yea u lost ur tranny...... bring it in.

Bummer.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

just go straight


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## traviswalker007 (Oct 13, 2006)

I Was Kind Of Expecting A Little More Technical Info, Do I Have A Allison Tranny, Or The 460le?? And If Its An Allison I Know There Is An Eletrical Switch If Engaged Will Cause The Tranny To Not Go In Reverse...are There Any Knowledgable Tranny Guys Out There?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Travis, is your truck 6.0, 8.1 or D-Max?

6.0's use the 4L80E

8.1's and D-Max will have the Allison...


Generally a 4L80E won't loose reverse due to an electrical problem..only a internal mechanical problem.

But an Allison can.. but it can be caused by different things.


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## RBRONKEMA GHTFD (Dec 17, 2006)

It is more than likely the reverse band. I had the same problem last year at this time. Snowing like a b!tch and then nothing. It was about 1500 otd. when it was all said and done. The guy also redid second gear too. Said it was a little burnt? But yeah It is the reverse band in the tranny. There are 2 prongs if you will on it that catch on something to engage the tranny and you pry broke them. Thats what I did. Hope you get it all figured out and taken care of before it snows again.

Ryan


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## traviswalker007 (Oct 13, 2006)

I have a 6.0L, so then i doubt i have an allison tranny..its a heavy duty dump truck, and with only 54,000 milse im surprised...so if this tooth is broken, do they offer a heavy duty replacement? do they need to drop the hole tranny out, i mean i just go this thing serviced and the guy said everything was ok...if the teeth were bad would there not be metal shavings in the tranny fluid?? is my mechanic screwing me?? what should/or can i do. any TSB from chevy on this problem...


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

traviswalker007;458156 said:


> I have a 6.0L, so then i doubt i have an allison tranny..its a heavy duty dump truck, and with only 54,000 milse im surprised...so if this tooth is broken, do they offer a heavy duty replacement? do they need to drop the hole tranny out, i mean i just go this thing serviced and the guy said everything was ok...if the teeth were bad would there not be metal shavings in the tranny fluid?? is my mechanic screwing me?? what should/or can i do. any TSB from chevy on this problem...


Since it's a 6.0 then yea, you have the 4L80E... and they will break the lugs off the rear band without warning.... Nothing your mechanic could have predicted if that is what actually happened here....

Many time's on the 80E's, if they break the rear band lugs it's usually do to an uncontrolled line pressure problem (which their well known for). Did you notice any hard shifting before it lost reverse? If so, then make sure they connect a scanner to the truck and check for any codes and check that the EPC solenoid isn't showing a high pressure condition or anything pertaining an over pressure problem, or I can promise you it will happen again. These 80E's have the capability to develope up wards of 500 psi of actual line pressure if allowed.. and the high pressure WILL break internal hard parts if run too long with the elevated line pressure...

You can road test it to see if the rear band is in fact broken...by checking it to see if it has compression braking in manual first gear.

Put the truck in manual first and accelerate to about 15 mph, then let completely off the throttle, can you feel the engine slowing the truck down? If not and it just feels like it's "freewheeling", then you can be sure it is in fact the rear band that failed.

The trans would have to be pulled and completly disassembled in order to replace the band.

There is no factory TSB's on this specific problem that I know of..


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## traviswalker007 (Oct 13, 2006)

If the truck does in fact slow itself down is it still an enternal problem that would require a teardown?? could a cable of snapped or freyed as in the other post on here?? could it be anything other than something major..speculating here a bit i guess, but worst case is a tear down, what would be minimal?? i dont mind drooping 1500 for a rebuild, but if i have to, what can i put in it to make it stronger..and if it needs a rebuild then should i replace all the gears as well or just reverse...u seem to be very knowledgable and i apreaciate your help.


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

I Have A Auto Repair/transmission Service And Your Transmission Is A 4l80e If Indeed It Is A 6.0l Engine Most Likely Cause That I Have Seen Espicially On Plow Trucks And Tow Trucks With The Same Set Up Is The Band Has Broken Which Will Require A Teardown To Fix It But If Its Affordable To You I Would Purchase A Dealer Unit ($1975 Here In Philadelphia Region) Comes With A 3year/75000 Mile Warranty Good At Any Gm Dealer In The Nation And You Can Install It Yourself. They Still Warranty It If You Do. Now........ The Fix So This Doesnt Happen So Soon Again Make Sure You Stop Completely From Forward Travel Before Shifting To Reverse Because That Is What Breaks The Band Good Luck In The Future And Cmonnnnnnnnnn Snow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!payuppayuppayup


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## RBRONKEMA GHTFD (Dec 17, 2006)

No cable broke. When mine went down I was right there watching the guy do most of it. There is only 1 cable running into the tranny, except the other tranny cooler lines and what not. The tranny will be out for atleast a full day. Unless you want you can go to your local tranny shop and I am sure they have one on hand and they can swap them out. That will still take atleast a half day if not more right there. Come to think of it, mine had about the same miles on it when mine went too. Accually I think the same amout. WEIRD?!?!?!?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

traviswalker007;458215 said:


> If the truck does in fact slow itself down is it still an enternal problem that would require a teardown?? could a cable of snapped or freyed as in the other post on here?? could it be anything other than something major..speculating here a bit i guess, but worst case is a tear down, what would be minimal?? i dont mind drooping 1500 for a rebuild, but if i have to, what can i put in it to make it stronger..and if it needs a rebuild then should i replace all the gears as well or just reverse...u seem to be very knowledgable and i apreaciate your help.


Well the road test will tell you for sure if the band is broken, but even if it does have compression braking it is still an internal failure of some type as they don't just "lose" reverse gear from an electrical or control problem, and I hate to take that wishful thinking from you but I'm 99% sure the trans is going to have to come out..as I think your gonna find that it doesn't have manual first engine braking.

This trans is a low mileage one so I think if you have it disassembled, your gonna find it's in pretty nice shape... now of course I have no idea how this truck is used or how it's treated but the 80E's are a very tough trans and the only fault's they really have is the reverse band failure and if they're really abused they'll take out the low roller sprag assembly (just like the Turbo 400's the granddaddy of the 80E), and the uncontrolled line pressure problem that I mentioned before (although that can be caused by several things).

If it were my truck, I'd pull it apart and give it a though look over to see what were dealing with first. Many times the clutches are still like new in these transmissions, even after years of use and tons of miles..I've pulled clutches out of these transmissions that still had the part numbers (stamped in ink) on the friction linings! So it may not need any clutches and you can spend the money on upgrading the parts that really matter.. They really are a good tranny and with a couple upgrades can be made to take a ton of abuse..

And as far as upgrades go, I'd put an aftermarket 34 element sprag assembly in it (stock is 16 element) and use an aftermarket Kevlar lined rear band. As that's the major 2 weak points in them and if you upgrade those 2 items, it will really help to ensure you get a trouble free and long life out of it. And don't forget to add the biggest trans cooler you can find also... very important to an auto!


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

nickplowing1972;458319 said:


> Make Sure You Stop Completely From Forward Travel Before Shifting To Reverse


Now that's just crazy talk right there.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

The part in the Allision that you guys are talking about is called the NSBU switch. (Nutral Saftey Backup Switch) It can case all types of hell on your nite of plowing. Last year my truck and another truck had them go out in a wet snow. I made my truck display park while in drive, 1 while in park, 3 while in N. Reverse there, but not in the right spot on the gear shifter. Also makes the truck SLAM into the top on the gear. Had to drive home 40 miles with out 4th, 5th, or overdrive.... in a stright pipe diesel!  Turned out to be a 57 dollar part I had changed out in about 30 minutes on the first truck, 10 min on the second.


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

REAPER;458678 said:


> Now that's just crazy talk right there.


BUT YOU KNOW ITS THE TRUTH WITH MOST PLOW OPERATORS AND ITS A HUGE


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## traviswalker007 (Oct 13, 2006)

its at the mechanis and he is going to pop the pan 2morow and let me know. I have also heard of the reverse servo piston failing as well but who knows. I do know if i take it to a tranny shop they will charge me 1700 to 2100 to fix the issue, that is root cause related and they will not automatically replace all internal parts, if the pass oem specs they will stay. if i buy a reman tranny from jasper, or gm i can get a warranty but my mechanic said 3,060 total.... i almost fell down, sound expensive, so i called jasper and the guy said his reman trannys run 2100, plus a 1,000 core charge?? so im thinking my mechanic is trying to pull one over on me..$960.00 in labor plus a 100 pallet fee....am i getting robbed in illinois??


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## exmark1 (Nov 30, 2005)

traviswalker007;459273 said:


> its at the mechanis and he is going to pop the pan 2morow and let me know. I have also heard of the reverse servo piston failing as well but who knows. I do know if i take it to a tranny shop they will charge me 1700 to 2100 to fix the issue, that is root cause related and they will not automatically replace all internal parts, if the pass oem specs they will stay. if i buy a reman tranny from jasper, or gm i can get a warranty but my mechanic said 3,060 total.... i almost fell down, sound expensive, so i called jasper and the guy said his reman trannys run 2100, plus a 1,000 core charge?? so im thinking my mechanic is trying to pull one over on me..$960.00 in labor plus a 100 pallet fee....am i getting robbed in illinois??


I put a GM reman in a 1993 K-2500 a few years back, we paid just over $3000.00 with install and sales tax.


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## traviswalker007 (Oct 13, 2006)

Hey Philly,
What do u think here!! i called jasper way over priced...GM can take a hike, if im paying for a waranty then why dont the fix the one i got, Its up at Todds right now, but he cant rebuild them he sends them out, anybody else here in sandwich that knows this tranny..dont mind droping 1500 or so for a rebuild with upgrades...but im not gonna spend 3,000 unless i have no other choice. I have seen alot of these on ebay from 799 up to 1700 for rebuilds.


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## traviswalker007 (Oct 13, 2006)

Philbilly2;458680 said:


> The part in the Allision that you guys are talking about is called the NSBU switch. (Nutral Saftey Backup Switch) It can case all types of hell on your nite of plowing. Last year my truck and another truck had them go out in a wet snow. I made my truck display park while in drive, 1 while in park, 3 while in N. Reverse there, but not in the right spot on the gear shifter. Also makes the truck SLAM into the top on the gear. Had to drive home 40 miles with out 4th, 5th, or overdrive.... in a stright pipe diesel!  Turned out to be a 57 dollar part I had changed out in about 30 minutes on the first truck, 10 min on the second.


Hey Philly,
What do u think here!! i called jasper way over priced...GM can take a hike, if im paying for a waranty then why dont the fix the one i got, Its up at Todds right now, but he cant rebuild them he sends them out, anybody else here in sandwich that knows this tranny..dont mind droping 1500 or so for a rebuild with upgrades...but im not gonna spend 3,000 unless i have no other choice. I have seen alot of these on ebay from 799 up to 1700 for rebuilds.


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## bobcatboy06 (Nov 3, 2006)

We have the same set up in an 02 3500 the, the same thing happened to ours, truck was out of warranty made several calls to GM ended up getting a new transmission at no cost.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

traviswalker007;459388 said:


> Hey Philly,
> What do u think here!! i called jasper way over priced...GM can take a hike, if im paying for a waranty then why dont the fix the one i got, Its up at Todds right now, but he cant rebuild them he sends them out, anybody else here in sandwich that knows this tranny..dont mind droping 1500 or so for a rebuild with upgrades...but im not gonna spend 3,000 unless i have no other choice. I have seen alot of these on ebay from 799 up to 1700 for rebuilds.


Southtown is a good shop! Todd is a good man! I take anything I can't fix myself there too. If it was an Allison, I got all the guys you need for them. Let me call a couple of people today and ask about those trans. and who does them up good around here.

The only places I know for quality build ups, are in

Elburn the is a guy (Dave's Proformace Transmissions?)

And the is also a guy in Plano between the DMV and Cartage Trucking.

That is all I can come up with, but I will get back to you this afternoon.


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

nickplowing1972;458972 said:


> BUT YOU KNOW ITS THE TRUTH WITH MOST PLOW OPERATORS AND ITS A HUGE


Oh I know.

Been there replaced that.

But it is amazing how many I see out there that have back-up lights going on when still rolling forward. :bluebounc:


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## trmotorsports (Aug 19, 2006)

I had an 04 3500 with a 6.0 liter. Mine did the same thing, but with less miles on it, 36,800. Dealers wouldnt touch it even though it was just barely over warranty. I bought a new tranny from Gm and paid a tranny shop $400 to swap it out. I dont know what your tranny shop will do for a warranty on a rebuilt but mine said 6 months or 6000 miles, with a new GM one was 3 yrs 36000. Couldnt beat that...
Sold it last summer and got a diesel though, much better tranny WAY WAY more giddy up..!!
Tyler


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## traviswalker007 (Oct 13, 2006)

Philbilly2;459834 said:


> Southtown is a good shop! Todd is a good man! I take anything I can't fix myself there too. If it was an Allison, I got all the guys you need for them. Let me call a couple of people today and ask about those trans. and who does them up good around here.
> 
> The only places I know for quality build ups, are in
> 
> ...


Todds going to do it, new tranny from Jasper with 3 year 75,000 mile warranty at 3,060. he's been real good to me over the years with my fleet, and it will be ready on friday. Thanks for all your help. Ohh ya,,,reverse band snapped..


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## salsterboy (Dec 3, 2007)

I also have a 2002 chevy 3500 dump 4x4, I had the same thing happen to me last winter. I lost reverse only with 79,000 miles on the truck. Anyways ended up having bands replaced and some other stuff done to rebuild the tranny, cost me $3,000.00 and have a two year warranty. Not a cheap fix!


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## troy28282 (Sep 26, 2002)

I had the same problem with the reverse bands but also cracked the torque converter as well. With only 76 thousand miles on it.


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

traviswalker007;460446 said:


> Todds going to do it, new tranny from Jasper with 3 year 75,000 mile warranty at 3,060. he's been real good to me over the years with my fleet, and it will be ready on friday. Thanks for all your help. Ohh ya,,,reverse band snapped..


DONT AND I REPEAT DONT DO A JASPER CHANCES ARE GREAT THAT IT WILL BE NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS GET A GM REPLACEMENT FOR THE SAME MONIES AND WARRANTY TRUST ME AND IF NOT GOOD LUCK............ I WILL HAVE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO IF I SEE A REPOST OF YOU SMASHING JASPER


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

nickplowing1972;460768 said:


> DONT AND I REPEAT DONT DO A JASPER CHANCES ARE GREAT THAT IT WILL BE NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS GET A GM REPLACEMENT FOR THE SAME MONIES AND WARRANTY TRUST ME AND IF NOT GOOD LUCK............ I WILL HAVE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO IF I SEE A REPOST OF YOU SMASHING JASPER


I don't care much for the Jasper transmissions either... never had a problem with their engine's but their tranny's are another story...

But good luck Travis and I hope it all works out fine for ya...

BTW, you might want to double check with the Jasper rep on the 3 yr 75K warranty since it's a plow truck in a commercial application... just a heads up.


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## iflyhelis (Dec 9, 2007)

REAPER;459873 said:


> Oh I know.
> 
> Been there replaced that.
> 
> But it is amazing how many I see out there that have back-up lights going on when still rolling forward. :bluebounc:


I do it all the time, but I cheat, I have my left foot on the brake & lock up the wheels, the slam it into reverse & then add power.

I bet ya never tried using reverse while sliding forward, It has saved my ass a few times when I have been slipping on ice heading for a intersection. Lock those brakes, put it into reverse, then add power & spin those tires backwards. Works great! With no damage to the tranny.


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

iflyhelis;461132 said:


> I do it all the time, but I cheat, I have my left foot on the brake & lock up the wheels, the slam it into reverse & then add power.
> 
> I bet ya never tried using reverse while sliding forward, It has saved my ass a few times when I have been slipping on ice heading for a intersection. Lock those brakes, put it into reverse, then add power & spin those tires backwards. Works great! With no damage to the tranny.


YOU NEED THE ADDRESS TO MY SHOP I LOVE CUSTOMERS LIKE YOU payup


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

iflyhelis;461132 said:


> I do it all the time, but I cheat, I have my left foot on the brake & lock up the wheels, the slam it into reverse & then add power.
> 
> I bet ya never tried using reverse while sliding forward, It has saved my ass a few times when I have been slipping on ice heading for a intersection. Lock those brakes, put it into reverse, then add power & spin those tires backwards. Works great! With no damage to the tranny.


 Most of you guys are aware I know a thing or two about transmissions...and I used to do that procedure alot with my previous truck when stacking, and it does work good as long as you have the rhythm down right....but you gotta do it right or it ain't good.

As long as all the wheels are locked before you go to reverse... it won't hurt a thing....

I'd never do it unless the lot was slippery enough to lock them up.....


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

B&B;461639 said:


> I'd never do it unless the lot was slippery enough to lock them up.....


How many guys do you think will try this next storm and won't get the rythm right.LOL Being the fastest doesn't always mean the best and if your a one truck show I'd take it easy on your baby or you'll be out of buisness.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

JD Dave;461646 said:


> How many guys do you think will try this next storm and won't get the rythm right.LOL


Probably a few...maybe I should have added a disclaimer near the bottom JD ?

Most guys here are running late model trucks... so remember, this method of reversal won't work for them..not on a truck with ABS anyway..


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

But B&B Said I Could Do It.....i Know My Rhythm Was Perfect........ I Can Hear It Now Lmao........ Better Get That Disclaimer Up B&B


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## iflyhelis (Dec 9, 2007)

B&B;461639 said:


> Most of you guys are aware I know a thing or two about transmissions...and I used to do that procedure alot with my previous truck when stacking, and it does work good as long as you have the rhythm down right....but you gotta do it right or it ain't good.
> 
> As long as all the wheels are locked before you go to reverse... it won't hurt a thing....
> 
> I'd never do it unless the lot was slippery enough to lock them up.....


I forgot to say lock the "Wheels" up not brakes... One more thing, I never used it for stacking, only to stop my ass when I was sliding on ice with no chance of not going into a intersection. Also this was pre-ABS brakes, although I did do it with a truck that had ABS & it worked, but then the ABS light was lit up for that whole day before I did that. So I think I lucked out.
This is all last resort kind of stuff, Not a normal practice.

So, thinking about what I wrote before, probably won't work for any of the ABS trucks, Unless they have ABS in the rear only maybe.

My disclaimer: don't try it unless you're truck is a non ABS.

Sorry about that guys.


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## iflyhelis (Dec 9, 2007)

nickplowing1972;461290 said:


> YOU NEED THE ADDRESS TO MY SHOP I LOVE CUSTOMERS LIKE YOU payup


Thanks! Give it to me, & I bet you $'s you will never hear from me ever.


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## traviswalker007 (Oct 13, 2006)

I still dont understand what the basic fundamentals are for the tranny operation. Why does it not cool itself in reverse, especialy with a plow package? can u not upgrade or update something in the tranny to help this issue. what about the allison trans, does it have the same issue in reverse. And i have heard alot about backing up, so what size lot is to big for backing up 5 car lenghts or 20 car lenghts? this hole issue with not backing up is putting alot more stress on the front end by constantly turning left and right at low speeds under heavy torque? " you gonna skin that smoke wagon boy" lol


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Since you don't understand the inner workings of an auto, some of these posts could be a little hard to follow...

But to answer some of your questions...

Operating it in reverse has nothing to do with cooling as far as the trans is concerned.. they cool themselves in reverse just as well as any other forward gear..and generally don't build any more heat in reverse as any other gear. The cooling issue was in reference to keeping the trans fluid under safe temps, and on a plow truck that can be hard to do at times. That's why you run the biggest cooler you can physically find on in...

The Allison's don't have band issues like the 80E's... because they don't have any bands at all.... and they have a very low reverse gear ratio..

You can drive all day in reverse if you need too... it's the initial application of when you first engage it into reverse and it's engages the band that puts the stress on the rear band, servo and band lugs... 
The hardest thing on them is engaging reverse while the wheels are still moving forward...


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## welded wrenches (Oct 19, 2004)

*hmmmm go figure*

do you really need a computer to contoll a tranny with a bumch of plastic tupperware parts...no..hmmm a rebuilt kit for a 4l60 is about $220.00 less tork converter.And 2-3 fora bench job overhaul go figure.oh computers belong on a office desk.not in or on any vehicle.ya dont need a compukker to go from point a to point b. ***fron old skool era.


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

welded wrenches;466139 said:


> do you really need a computer to contoll a tranny with a bumch of plastic tupperware parts...no..hmmm a rebuilt kit for a 4l60 is about $220.00 less tork converter.And 2-3 fora bench job overhaul go figure.oh computers belong on a office desk.not in or on any vehicle.ya dont need a compukker to go from point a to point b. ***fron old skool era.


*YOU CAN THANK THE GOVERNMENT FOR COMPUTERS IN CARS..... ALL THE COMPUTER WAS INITIATED FOR ORIGANALLY WAS TO CURB EMISSIONS FROM THE TAILPIPE YET MOST OF THE BIG INDUSTRIES ARE STILL PUMPING THE BAD SH%^ INTO THE ATOMSPHERE........GIVE ME A 4BBL AND TURBO 400 ANYDAY OVER THE N.B.S.'s ANYWAYSwesportxysport *


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