# Wal-Mart and USM



## Sooner

I haven't been on here in a while and read two separate posts about Wal-Marts in several states going to USM for snow, landscaping and sweeping. Is this a trend? Does anyone have any more information as to the scope of this change?


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## buckwheat_la

yep, it is all going to USM, and don't seem to be a very good company to deal with


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## ajslands

buckwheat_la;1065524 said:


> yep, it is all going to USM, and don't seem to be a very good company to deal with


Here we go again!


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## Sooner

*Again?*



ajslands;1065563 said:


> Here we go again!


What do you mean? If you don't mind...


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## ajslands

Sooner;1065580 said:


> What do you mean? If you don't mind...


Usually if not all the time their is a thread with USM in it, it's always a big debate or fight! Or complaint!


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## hickslawns

Here is how I look at it. There are only a few companies which offer sweeping in our area. Whenever USM puts the other companies out of business, then I have the entire local market to myself. I will NOT work for them. Don't care if my trucks sit idle for 2 years. Shouldn't take this long for USM to put the other guys out of business. Harsh business strategy? I prefer to use the term "realistic."


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## Camden

The guy who USM hired to "sweep" our local WM shows up each morning with a handful of workers who are equipped with brooms and dustpans. No joke. They just walk around and collect cigarette butts and other trash.

I should really snap a picture of that some time...


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## badabing1512

Camden;1065850 said:


> The guy who USM hired to "sweep" our local WM shows up each morning with a handful of workers who are equipped with brooms and dustpans. No joke. They just walk around and collect cigarette butts and other trash.
> 
> I should really snap a picture of that some time...


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## Sooner

*Good Call*



hickslawns;1065831 said:


> Here is how I look at it. There are only a few companies which offer sweeping in our area. Whenever USM puts the other companies out of business, then I have the entire local market to myself. I will NOT work for them. Don't care if my trucks sit idle for 2 years. Shouldn't take this long for USM to put the other guys out of business. Harsh business strategy? I prefer to use the term "realistic."


I'm with you. I haven't ever worked for them and don't intend to. I am, however, quite concerned about my 7 WM sweeping/power washing accounts. That is going to sting a bit.


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## hickslawns

Well Sooner, think of it this way: For one contractor to sign and pick up 7 stores he/she is most likely going to need to add equipment. Add equipment, not get paid by USM, suddenly they have higher overhead with lower returns. Bingo! Failure. This opens up your 7 stores plus all their other accounts. Patience my friend. In the smaller sectors, we can survive!


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## plowtime1

Well said Phil!

I don't waste energy on large big box stores, plenty of others who appreciate local providers.
I consider the investment of a machine and labor nothing but "minimal profit" and "overnight babysitting"
Heck..with the type of service a sweeper company offers, we should be getting the property managers pay as well!


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## shooterm

They'll dump USM soon. The work isnt being done anymore. Only thing USM has is liability worked out but that will be put into question. They'll most likely go with a regional instead of national maintence plan which they toyed with a few years back. Much like the recent BP oil rig accident lawyers are thrashing liability contracts for sub work.


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## hickslawns

I hope you are right PDMcgowan. I know there will be other contracts available when USM puts other local contractors out of business. I know I have good faith and have treated my customers right in the past 13 years I have been in business. Maybe the good Lord has something else in store for me. This is the only way I can look at it. Seems everytime we lose an account we pick up two more. Faith, patience, hard work, and honesty will pull us through. Sometimes you don't know how it will work out, but it seems we always do. There are always new opportunities. I never enter a business venture without an exit strategy. I try to keep overhead as low as possible and plan for today, tomorrow, and the next decade all at the same time. All I can do is play the cards I am dealt and roll with the punches. We are survivors. USM might try to throw a monkey wrench in our plans, but honestly, I am more worried about the government and what they are trying to do to destroy the small businessman or woman than I am USM.


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## plowtime1

Ditto,

I'm sure a majority on this site will agree to your points, way to much governance.


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## DMPUS

Camden;1065850 said:


> The guy who USM hired to "sweep" our local WM shows up each morning with a handful of workers who are equipped with brooms and dustpans. No joke. They just walk around and collect cigarette butts and other trash.
> 
> I should really snap a picture of that some time...


Hmm.. That's called Porter Service by my understanding . I've seen it a lot in my low ball area ..

Btw that's my first post here. Hello everyone 

D.


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## Camden

DMPUS;1113809 said:


> Hmm.. That's called Porter Service by my understanding I've seen it a lot in my low ball area
> 
> Btw that's my first post here. Hello everyone
> 
> D.


Welcome 
I've never heard of that before but I'm pretty new to parking lot maintenance so that's probably why.

Here's what I use when I'm just looking to pick up trash: 









$377 and it works perfectly for cigarette butts, pop cans and soda bottles.


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## DMPUS

Camden;1113950 said:


> Welcome
> I've never heard of that before but I'm pretty new to parking lot maintenance so that's probably why.
> 
> Here's what I use when I'm just looking to pick up trash:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $377 and it works perfectly for cigarette butts, pop cans and soda bottles.


Sweeping a parking lot can be divided in two parts: Night time power sweeping and day time porter service.

During the night, power sweeping involves heavy duty machinery and detailed vacuum cleaning of the parking lot area. Most contracts cover landscaping liter pick up, sidewalk blowing and changing the trash liners.

During the day the cleaning of a parking lot is done by hand. The day porter also has duties such as cleaning the exterior of the building etc.

Night sweeping should be charged accordingly due to the use of expensive machinery, usually crew of two employees and night time work.
The day time porter involves only supplies expenses and one employee salary.

Day time porter can never substitute night time power sweeping especially for large and busy shopping centers due to the car and people's traffic presence during the day.

Leaders in the parking lot power sweeping industry are Schwarze, Tymco and Victory Sweepers with their vacuum units. The most common used machine which has been proven for more than a decade as very strong, reliable and efficient machine is the Schwarze S348i and its lighter single engine version - S347i. Victory Sweepers provide high end, quality units for professionals who are specializing in that field.


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## hickslawns

DMPUS- We don't see a lot of porter service around here, but many of the national companies try to sell me on "Well, just send a guy out there once a week while you are mowing to pick up the bottles along the curbs." My most recent favorite line was "Do you think if we awarded it to you seasonally, and you just did it by hand once a month it would work for you?" My reply, sure except your spec sheet says Mechanical sweeping once a week to include changing trash can liners, sweeping curbs, cleaning trash from lawn and landscaped areas. . . . Were you suggesting I just call in once a week stating I was in there, and then just picking up the big stuff by hand once a month? Where I come from this is called "lieing". No thanks. 

Here is a scenario to think about. You are driving a $60-70k truck. You are consuming fuel. You are wearing it out. You have maintenance on it old or new. You have labor to cover. The lot is going to take 45min to one hour (not any particular store in mind, just stating a generic lot which might take this amount of time). Then the nationals expect you to go out for $16-25/hour. I think they are in the wrong line of work. I think they should be comedians, not maintenance companies.


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## Cmbrsum

Is there a web site for USM that tells about what and how much they are hiring for in local areas? I want to see how much damage they are doing in utah.


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## shooterm

You can't get away with once a week porter service. The trash cans at a Walmart fill up in two days. We did it everyday and "police called" the area once a week. Who ever is doing it now in my town is doing it whenever theres complaints which is causing alot of problems with store managers. We just fixed a 36" culvert in a stream for Walmart and there up in arms on how bad USM is botching outside maintence. I still expect USM to be dumped for for another system which interesting enuff we started providing for three large companies in our town. Local control one head to go to is what these business require.


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## rsweeper

*USM what a joke*

What I cant believe is that no one has yet to say anything about the contract they want you to sign, or is it you dont read them or care.

1- They want you to sigh a non compete clause for 2 years
Why would anyone sign something like that when it was most likely already your job, and if you sign that you cant take the job back, and if you do they could take you to court and make you pay them.

2- They want you to sign for a automatic rebate program (kick back)
Why would you sign to give them an additional 4% after they pay you $10,000

3- They want you to sign that you are liable for fines and fees that the city might fine them
Why would you sign to pay them, you would be waiting for them to give you a go ahead to do extra work and if they drag there feet you become liable

4- They want you to sign that if you take them to court to get paid, you have to do it where they are.
Why, your job is where you are not where they are. O thats right, if you have to do it there you probably wont take them to court, as you will have to pay to get there and stay there while you are trying to get a court order and that will cost more the they owe you

I have only hit a few of the problems whith there contract, I can go on if you wish. I talked to a Walmart head hancho and was told that items 1-3 that i listed were not allowed to be on the USM contract. USM said they knew that but sign it anyway we wont hold you to that. Not a chance, you take it out and most of the rest of your contract or i have to abide by it, no going to happen.

I really think this is a simple problem to fix. We stand our ground, only give them real prices to do the work, and when they wont pay it they wont be able to get anyone to work for them, then Walmart says goodbye USM, We get our jobs back.

As a last note on this post, USM told our stores that they had hired JO BLOW company to do the sweeping and they did not, they hired the contractor that Walmart had fired to hire us. Needless to say our stores are pissed about this and are trying to get corporate to do something about them lieing. Who knows maybe sooner then later for us.


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## 4700dan

rsweeper;1126828 said:


> What I cant believe is that no one has yet to say anything about the contract they want you to sign, or is it you dont read them or care.
> 
> 1- They want you to sigh a non compete clause for 2 years
> Why would anyone sign something like that when it was most likely already your job, and if you sign that you cant take the job back, and if you do they could take you to court and make you pay them.
> 
> 2- They want you to sign for a automatic rebate program (kick back)
> Why would you sign to give them an additional 4% after they pay you $10,000
> 
> 3- They want you to sign that you are liable for fines and fees that the city might fine them
> Why would you sign to pay them, you would be waiting for them to give you a go ahead to do extra work and if they drag there feet you become liable
> 
> 4- They want you to sign that if you take them to court to get paid, you have to do it where they are.
> Why, your job is where you are not where they are. O thats right, if you have to do it there you probably wont take them to court, as you will have to pay to get there and stay there while you are trying to get a court order and that will cost more the they owe you
> 
> I have only hit a few of the problems whith there contract, I can go on if you wish. I talked to a Walmart head hancho and was told that items 1-3 that i listed were not allowed to be on the USM contract. USM said they knew that but sign it anyway we wont hold you to that. Not a chance, you take it out and most of the rest of your contract or i have to abide by it, no going to happen.
> 
> I really think this is a simple problem to fix. We stand our ground, only give them real prices to do the work, and when they wont pay it they wont be able to get anyone to work for them, then Walmart says goodbye USM, We get our jobs back.
> 
> As a last note on this post, USM told our stores that they had hired JO BLOW company to do the sweeping and they did not, they hired the contractor that Walmart had fired to hire us. Needless to say our stores are pissed about this and are trying to get corporate to do something about them lieing. Who knows maybe sooner then later for us.


:laughing: Don't hold your breath for you will die before WalMart ditches USM we have been waiting for 3 years for this to happen and still nothing now going into the 4th year :angry:


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## rsweeper

That may be true for you, but they have just started with all this here. My busness dosent and wont revolve around just Wal-Mart. Your problem and mine still remains, people will work for nothing with USM. Get smart people dont give away your prices and they will either have to pay a fair amount or they wont be here.


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## hickslawns

rsweeper- I read the contract. Here is how it worked for us. We were able to negotiate and agree to a price on one of the three stores we have maintained since it opened. Great, now we are getting somewhere. Then USM says fax back the signed agreement so we can get started. I state "We are not done negotiating yet. All we have agreed upon is price." I state what I want to have changed in the wording of their contract and this is where it stops. They absolutely refused to change one word of the contractor's agreement. 27 pages of gibberish, loopholes, legal talk, and lies. Why would I ever sign a non-compete on a store I have maintained since it opened? I agree with you here. Needless to say, I get regular phone calls from USM and other local contractors about the snow contract. It has not been awarded yet. It is November 30th. lol They don't start the sweeping contract until February. You think they are having trouble finding someone to plow it, wait until they find out there are only two companies sweeping in my area. Shoot, I have to drive 40 minutes to cover the one store because there are NO contractors over there to sweep. Good luck USM! Good luck to my store managers. I feel bad for them because their hands are tied. It is very ironic WM has built a business around eliminating the middle man, yet they have added the middle man on this issue and it is biting them in the butt.


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## rsweeper

Thats right they wont change anything, its all in there fovor period. Anyone that signs a contract like that is a fool. We had 2 stores and have lost both. Owell less wear on my truck. I can live without them and will live without them. I will work for them only if they change the contract and pay a fair price. Im not going to hold my breath on that one. Plus i probably wont work for them if they do as I cant stand what they have done. I belive I stated in a post before, they are only offering you half if not less then what they are being paid to do these lots. And I know this first hand from a manager that they dont service anymore, not a Walmart. As another question I know you are back east of me and Im in So Cal, But you stated that the sweeping contracts dont start tell Feb? I know it snows there and all but what do they do when it isnt snowing? just leave the trash there tell Feb? I would still think they needed sweeping even in the winter.


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## hickslawns

Sweep year round. USM took over snow contracts at the start of the winter. Sweeping contracts they pick up around February. Lawn and landscape they take over in the spring. We will retain the sweeping until USM takes over. We might still come to an agreement on sweeping, but I am thinking if I bet my net worth in Vegas I will have better odds.


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## trebordollars

*Same Time Frame*



hickslawns;1140477 said:


> Sweep year round. USM took over snow contracts at the start of the winter. Sweeping contracts they pick up around February. Lawn and landscape they take over in the spring. We will retain the sweeping until USM takes over. We might still come to an agreement on sweeping, but I am thinking if I bet my net worth in Vegas I will have better odds.


We have been contacted and I am hearing the same thing about the sweeping time frame. That the switch to USM will be February. They are covered up with handling the plowing contractors for now. Local WM managers still are not in the loop on the sweeping to my knowledgel.

Phil - what sweeping rates are your hearing they are paying for a WM sweep per nite?

Trebor


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## White Gardens

Ah yes another USM thread. Great reading.



Get those comments in before lock-down.


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## cranky1111

Hicks --- Same here ... sweep 4 WM --- they contacted me "we want to keep as many current contractors in place as possible" ..... no kidding .... nothing like getting in the middle..

Really, looking at it from WM perspective makes total sense. On a nationwide level, they have individual management, Invoice clerks (the key to any WM store), operations in Arkansas, expenses related to vendor management up and down the supply chain -

Outside company deals with all that ... WM gets sold that service is same or better (even if its less, they dont have to directly correct with every individual contractor).

I am glad i am diversified.......


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## rsweeper

Corp never called contractors so that saves nothing. The store manager would call if they had a problem and talk to contractor. Now the store manager has to call USM and complain, then USM has to call contractor and tell them what manager said is wrong. And we all know what happens when you tell one person to tell another person, it all get screwed up. I went in the other day to my old stores to see how things are going, and they are pissed off big time that Im not there anymore, but understand that I wont work for less or sign that stupid contract. Told them all they can do is call in and complain every day if they arnt being done correctly.


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## 4700dan

rsweeper;1149037 said:


> Corp never called contractors so that saves nothing. The store manager would call if they had a problem and talk to contractor. Now the store manager has to call USM and complain, then USM has to call contractor and tell them what manager said is wrong. And we all know what happens when you tell one person to tell another person, it all get screwed up. I went in the other day to my old stores to see how things are going, and they are pissed off big time that Im not there anymore, but understand that I wont work for less or sign that stupid contract. Told them all they can do is call in and complain every day if they arnt being done correctly.


The whole problem here is that the managers do get really pissed but since corp made this desition and corp keeps these managers humping in the stores that gives the managers little to no time to call USM to complain about the shotty work, yeh they may call 1 or 2 times but they will not call everyday because that is what it will take to make a difference (maybe) one thing to remember is that USM is a $169M company an they are going nowhere they have WalMart an they plan on keeping them for a long time so if you want to work for USM all I have to say is good luck. :salute:


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## hickslawns

Ummm, no calls for sweeping from USM yet. They might call around the second week in January or something. I don't care. I will not work for them. They refuse to alter the wording in their contracts. They found someone to plow. Maybe that guy will want to get into the sweeping business too. Doesn't bother me. How many times can a company go bankrupt? Just curious. Not sure how many lives that guy has. I know I have one go round. I am not ending in bankruptcy. We have already altered course and begun picking up a few other contracts. A reduced, yet profitable, workload is better than no workload. Screw USM. They won't last.


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## lylehoover

*Usm*

ANYONE out there have a good lawyer they could set me up with! Fighting to get my pay from last year and now having the same issue this year with USM.


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## Camden

lylehoover;1172534 said:


> ANYONE out there have a good lawyer they could set me up with! Fighting to get my pay from last year and now having the same issue this year with USM.


Are you trying to get paid from USM for last year's work? If so, why did you re-up with them THIS year??


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## 4700dan

lylehoover;1172534 said:


> ANYONE out there have a good lawyer they could set me up with! Fighting to get my pay from last year and now having the same issue this year with USM.


Now what did they soak you for and how much is it


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## JB1

wow, the stories.


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## rsweeper

lylehoover;1172534 said:


> ANYONE out there have a good lawyer they could set me up with! Fighting to get my pay from last year and now having the same issue this year with USM.


Well Lyle,

First off if you signed there stupid contract, you will have to take them to arbitration in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 
Second thing is If you didn't send in your bills in a timely fashion, there contract says they don't have to pay you a dime. Even if you did they will say you didn't.
Third thing, Do you have stupid tattooed on your forehead? Sorry but I think you do and anybody that reads these posts will think that as well. Why would you do even one day more of work for them if they owe you money? 
Forth thing, This is why you and others should read and reread contracts! There contract is in favor of them and them only! you are nobody to them and never will be.
Fifth thing, do you call in everyday to there phone number before and after doing work, sign a non compete clause for 2 years, let them take an additional rebate of 4%, its called kick back!

I can keep going if you like! NO BODY SHOULD WORK FOR THEM!!!!!! when they cant get people to work for them they will have to do the work them selves or they will lose all the accounts. Let them go bye all the equipment, do the up keep, everyday. It wont happen, they cant and wont be able to do it. They are charging WalMart about double or more what they pay you. Thats right! Look at it this way, say you charge them a thousand dollars a month for your service. They charge the customer 2 thousand a month for the service. They don't do squat on the job, never even see it, and they make the same or more then you do, before you even subtract one penny to pay for upkeep of your equipment, employees, insurance, ETC. Get smart, tell them go away we wont work for you.


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## hickslawns

I won't be as harsh. Lyle, I would suggest going to a local attorney and letting him/her read over what you signed. Then hand them $200 and walk away expecting nothing to be done. There are many loopholes in the USM contract which enable them to not pay the contractor. It is a sad, sad thing. I wish you the best of luck! Personally, I think I would have been calling every day and refused to work for them another year until they had paid their previous invoices. That is just me though. What do I know?


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## BlazingSun

3 Walmarts & Sams in our area have called about providing snow/ice bids ASAP. Ice storms last week and NOBODY showed up for anything. It was a mess, still is. All Walmart decisions come from Corporate office, local GMs cant decide anything. I bid 2 of them, see how it plays out....


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## EGLC

BlazingSun;1174332 said:


> 3 Walmarts & Sams in our area have called about providing snow/ice bids ASAP. Ice storms last week and NOBODY showed up for anything. It was a mess, still is. All Walmart decisions come from Corporate office, local GMs cant decide anything. I bid 2 of them, see how it plays out....


go fall and break your arm and sue....


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## JB1

seems like they find fresh meat all the time.


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## BlazingSun

JB1, Are you in Corydon? If so send me an email, have 1 small property in Corydon for snow. May be interested in subbing it to you if you are interested. [email protected]


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## BlazingSun

EGLC;1174431 said:


> go fall and break your arm and sue....


Would surprise me if somebody doesn't. Had almost a half inch of ice on the entire lot.
I hadnt heard of USM before, guess I know where to send them if they call. They sound like Safeguard that manages forclosures.


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## JB1

BlazingSun;1176340 said:


> JB1, Are you in Corydon? If so send me an email, have 1 small property in Corydon for snow. May be interested in subbing it to you if you are interested. [email protected]


sent you an e-mail.


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## EZSWEEP

Did anyone on the east coast get contacted by usm yet? I filled out a questionnaire for them and heard nothing. And still did not get a cancellation from Walmart which is weird if they are taking over Feb 1st


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## 4700dan

EZSWEEP;1183703 said:


> Did anyone on the east coast get contacted by usm yet? I filled out a questionnaire for them and heard nothing. And still did not get a cancellation from Walmart which is weird if they are taking over Feb 1st


You will not hear from WalMart untill the last second I know from last year: realmad:


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## redriveroffroad

*USM contract for AK OK and TX*

My company was offered $35 per sweep $45 per mow per WM/Sams location
We service SE OK, SW AK and NE TX

Great post here guys. If you havent read this whole thread please do.

We as Landscape/Sweeper contractors must hold our ground and tell USM...NO!


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## hickslawns

Do what I did, reply with a polite "No thank you." Then offer them the phone number of someone that can work for those prices. I gave them the number to the local homeless shelter.


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## JOEC

Thats awesome homeless shelter.


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## hickslawns

Believe it JOEC. I just dropped off two garbage bags of old thermal lined flannels, sweatshirts, some pants, and other warm clothes to our local homeless men's shelter. Those fellas could honestly use the work. If USM wants to pay prices that won't cover the cost of fuel, equipment, insurance, upkeep, taxes. . . .they might as well pay those whom are out of work and down on their luck. Something is better than nothing if you are homeless. If you are in business, sometimes nothing is better than the something they are offering. I will sit at Bob Evans and watch them. At least all I will be out is the cost of my meal. Much smaller loss than performing the services according to their scope of work and not getting paid. Anyone want to join me? If we get tired of Bob's there is a Cracker Barrel around the corner.


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## SnowMT

hickslawns;1157481 said:


> Ummm, no calls for sweeping from USM yet. They might call around the second week in January or something. I don't care. I will not work for them. They refuse to alter the wording in their contracts. They found someone to plow. Maybe that guy will want to get into the sweeping business too. Doesn't bother me. How many times can a company go bankrupt? Just curious. Not sure how many lives that guy has. I know I have one go round. I am not ending in bankruptcy. We have already altered course and begun picking up a few other contracts. A reduced, yet profitable, workload is better than no workload. Screw USM. They won't last.


Totally agree with Phil!


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## Sooner

So I just got a call from Mirror Lawns asking if I could take care of 5 Wal-Marts for this week only. I said "No Thanks" since they took my Lowe's stores last year. W T F?


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