# Torsion Bar Upgrade Possible?



## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

I have a 2008 2500HD Ext. Cab 4x4 diesel. Currently I have the GL torsion bars in it. The dealer is telling me the XG will only fit 01-07. Has anyone put the XG torsion bar into an 08 or newer?

15528965-LH (code GL) (Max torque 8782)
15528966-RH (code GL) (Max torque 8782)

15732338-LH (code XG) (Max torque 9054)
15732339-RH (code XG) (Max torque 9054)


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## smokejmpr (Jun 3, 2009)

no but we have superkeys for your truck to help with the sag.


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Keys only make the front sag further. Yes the bars are still all the same. Dealer is a DA!


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## smokejmpr (Jun 3, 2009)

the ones i have installed have been better than stock


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Keys will lift the truck, but do not improve/increase spring rate. Like putting a bucket under a leaky pipe.


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

Bars a real great way to beef up the front end, not hard at all either. I wouldn't recommend buying from your dealer though, you will probably find a much better price at gmpartsdirect.com!


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## APLC (Nov 25, 2008)

do they make some for mid 90's Chevy 1500


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

88-98 1500-3500 are all the same, T-bars are interchangeable. I don't know if there were changes with the GMT800 introduced in 99.


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

mcwlandscaping;823009 said:


> Bars a real great way to beef up the front end, not hard at all either. I wouldn't recommend buying from your dealer though, you will probably find a much better price at gmpartsdirect.com!


Thanks! That was my plan.

Has anyone actually put the XG's in a truck?


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

I have them on mine, but the previous owner had it done. The only reason I found out was due to a comment the dealer tech made. I imagine it is a really easy job.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...q=xg+torsion+bars+gm&hl=en&sa=N&um=1&ie=UTF-8


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

stevesmowing;823285 said:


> Thanks! That was my plan.
> 
> Has anyone actually put the XG's in a truck?


Yes and they go right in.


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## hdelectraglide (Aug 25, 2009)

What comes stock on a 05 gmc 2500 duaramax?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

hdelectraglide;823416 said:


> What comes stock on a 05 gmc 2500 duaramax?


Most likely they'll be the "GL" bars but to be positive you'll need to check the tags on the bars themselves. If the bar tags are long gone then check the RPO decal in the glove box.


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## hdelectraglide (Aug 25, 2009)

hey thanks b&b how long did your stock bars last? Im on year 4 hauling around a 8' western and no real sag


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

No way to know, just one of the many trucks I've done a bar swap on...most are less than a year old when they're swapped.


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

thanks everyone! I'll be ordering a set of XG's online.


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## APLC (Nov 25, 2008)

oh im getting some for my 95 chevy 1500 asap


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## Rangr25 (Sep 24, 2008)

If you upgrade to the heavier torsion bar will that result in a stiffer ride or will that be the same?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Rangr25;837012 said:


> If you upgrade to the heavier torsion bar will that result in a stiffer ride or will that be the same?


 Generally heavier bars will have some impact on ride quality but how much depends specifically on which bars you have and which ones you're upgrading to.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

what do the xg's run $$ ? 

i believe my truck (08 2500hd duramax) already has the keys installed, is there any way to know for sure? 

but the truck doesn't have the drop brackets for the shocks so that makes me question my self.

so let me get this straight, the keys just lift the trucks front end up more so when it sags at the same rate it wont drag the mount right? the bars actully stiffin up the front right? 

how about both bars and keys because the a$$ end of my truck allready sits waaaaay up over the front.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

newhere;837119 said:


> what do the xg's run $$ ?


About $200 each depending on how good your connections are at the dealer or whether you dig around online for them. They're out there. Your old bars have some value as well for resell. Helps with offsetting the cost of the new ones.



newhere;837119 said:


> i believe my truck (08 2500hd duramax) already has the keys installed, is there any way to know for sure?


 Does it have the usual factory rake to it? If not and it appears a little height than stock take a look at the adjuster bolts. If there's plenty of threads left then it probably has had the keys changed. But if they're nearly out of threads then it's a good bet it's stock with the adjusters tuned way up to help raise the front.



newhere;837119 said:


> but the truck doesn't have the drop brackets for the shocks so that makes me question my self.


 Not really a good way to determine the keys. Many guys throw replacement keys in and never address the shock length issue with the extended shock brackets, rather they'll just let it pound the shocks to death and be happy.



newhere;837119 said:


> so let me get this straight, the keys just lift the trucks front end up more so when it sags at the same rate it wont drag the mount right? the bars actually stiffen up the front right?


 100% absolutely correct. Shame more guys don't understand this. 



newhere;837119 said:


> how about both bars and keys because the a$$ end of my truck already sits waaaaay up over the front.


Both together are seldom needed but you can do it if you don't mind the horrible ride quality. A certain degree of harshness does depends on which bars you actually upgrade to however.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

newhere;837119 said:


> so let me get this straight, the keys just lift the trucks front end up more so when it sags at the same rate it wont drag the mount right? the bars actully stiffin up the front right?





B&B;837192 said:


> 100% absolutely correct. Shame more guys don't understand this.


It's complicated, really........


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

I tried putting my XG bars in tonight and could not get them to fit. Physically they fit fine, however when I went to pre-load them (with the torsion bar tool) I couldn't get enough preload to get get the block that holds the adjuster bolt in place. If i rotate the key to the next side on the hex there is no pre-load what so ever. Any help guys!?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Pull the lower shock bolts out to allow the suspension to fully drop and be sure you're installing the correct bar in the correct side. 

The XG's are stiff so it takes some force to twist them enough to get the threaded block in.


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

I tried that and still had no luck. It looks like the XG torison bars are clocked a few degrees less than the GL's on the ends. They are close but not exact. Do I need different keys? What else can I do?


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

I have often wondered if it is worth going from the GL to XG. It's only a small percentage of spring rate increase.


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

still no luck. So when comparing the two bars side by side the XG's are clocked (indexed) a little differently than the GL's. The picture with my hand had no pre-load on it. The picture with the tool has as much pre-load as I can put on it with a 1/2" drive socket and wrench. You can just see the bottom of the key sticking out. It is not anywhere close to making it up high enough.

The end with the arrow on the bar is the one going into the key. They are being twisted in the direction of the arrow. The bar with the L is on the drivers side and the bar with the R is on the passenger side.

The GL's and the XG's are the same diameter so what gives the bar a higher rating? Is it because they are indexed differently? How else could the bar have a higher rating?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Did you pull the shock like B&B suggested? As for the difference in strength, the diameter difference could be too small to see by eye. Did you measure with calipers? Could be different steel too.


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

They probably aren't indexed different, your bars have been on the truck for a while so they have probably settled a bit. I think you just need to crank on the tool some more, breaker bar or impact gun.


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

I just put a set of the GL bars in a 92 K1500 Blazer.... damb is it nice  All I can say about it not compressing far enough is get a bigger impact or more air pressure. 

FWI, I paid $40 each for the GL bars, and I have a standing order for any XG bars that may come into the junk yard... for the same price. I might have to wait awhile, but i dont mind.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

suscribing...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rsvees;854425 said:


> They probably aren't indexed different, your bars have been on the truck for a while so they have probably settled a bit. I think you just need to crank on the tool some more, breaker bar or impact gun.


I am pretty sure that it says with the directions from Kent Moore, do not use an impact gun on the torsion bar tool.


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

I dont know the brand of tool we used last weekend... but it handled the impact fine.


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## aeronutt (Sep 24, 2008)

I've never done one of these, but it looks like you still need to go another 1.5 inches or so before you'll be able to get the cross block to slide into place. If you're already running out of oomph to crank it, there's something not right. I *don't think impact wrench is the answer*. Are you using the stock key or one of the various "lift" keys? Did you grease the threads of the puller and the end of the screw so you aren't wasting torque to friction losses? REALLY dumb question: did you put the bar in backwards? Is that even possible?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

The tool that he is using is a Kent-Moore and on a Kent-Moore torsion bar tool, the directions say no impact gun. I am sure that the tool can handle it, the problem lies in that you are not suppose to load springs with power tools


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Sorry, but that is what we would have done in the shop a couple years ago.


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## RichG53 (Sep 16, 2008)

Your looking for an OUCH if you over do it .........


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

2COR517;854411 said:


> Did you pull the shock like B&B suggested? As for the difference in strength, the diameter difference could be too small to see by eye. Did you measure with calipers? Could be different steel too.


Yes I pulled the lower shock bolts and yes I measured it with calipers. Thanks for the thoughts! It's gotta be something stupid i'm missing.


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

aeronutt;854461 said:


> I've never done one of these, but it looks like you still need to go another 1.5 inches or so before you'll be able to get the cross block to slide into place. If you're already running out of oomph to crank it, there's something not right. I *don't think impact wrench is the answer*. Are you using the stock key or one of the various "lift" keys? Did you grease the threads of the puller and the end of the screw so you aren't wasting torque to friction losses? REALLY dumb question: did you put the bar in backwards? Is that even possible?


Keys are stock and threads are greased.


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

what about purposly flipping the left and right bars. Would this solve the clocking (off-set) problem? If i flip the bar end for end as well it would still be torqued in the same direction as the arrow goes.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

stevesmowing;854772 said:


> Keys are stock and threads are greased.


what year truck? If I remember correct, I think they started putting the "green keys" as stock keys on 2500HD after 2004. What is the part number on your key? If it is 15592573 then it is a green key


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

2008. It doesnt have that part number key in it. I got the right side in by greasing it up. It raised the truck about 3" though and i cant get the lower shock bolt back in. I'd need an extender. I think my CV angles are too steep now... The tool busted when I did the drivers side


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## aeronutt (Sep 24, 2008)

It the tool busted, there's definitely something wrong. You shouldn't have ended up with 3 inches of lift either. I know this is insulting your intelligence so I'll apologize up front, but did you double check that the bar with "L" and "338" stamped in the end of it is installed on the driver's side? Those stampings are visible through the hole in the back of the crossmember.


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## Snowzilla (Oct 24, 2009)

You could also check into Suspension lift company's that offer replacement torsion bars. I have a lifted '89 K1500 and replaced the torsion bars with Rancho's optional bars when I lifted the truck. My 7.5' plow has little effect on my front end when I lift it. I'm not sure Rancho offers these for you model but there are many other suspension companies; Skyjacker, Superlift, Fab-Tek, etc.


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## Dissociative (Feb 28, 2007)

super keys are the biggest waste of money out there......

they are a joke and so it whom ever is trying to offload that garbage to you.


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

Yes I am sure the bars are on the correct sides. It's weird... What do you guys think about trying to switch the bars side to side and then flip them end for end so they are still being twisted in the correct direction.


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Can you get good pics of the old and new bars side by side?


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## aeronutt (Sep 24, 2008)

Flipping the bar end-for-end will not change the direction that it torques. Prove it to yourself by twisting the lid on an ink pen, then flip it and apply the same twist again. You'll see that the pen lid moves the same direction in relation to the barrel both ways.


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

Flipping the bars end for end and changing the side they r on will allow them to still be twisted the same direction. I just tried it with a pen. I'll try to get pics of the old vs new side by side


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## wirenut (Jan 16, 2004)

check this

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums...keys-torsion-bar-cranking-replacing-tech.html


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Steve, did you ever figure this out? Would love to know what the solution is, I'd like to order mine!


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

I'm still working on it. The tool broke and I am waiting for the new tool to come in.


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

Got the bars in at last. Had to switch them side to side and end for end so the geometry lined up the same as the old bars. Bottom line. NO improvement over my GL's bars. The truck sat exactly the same and sagged just as much with my plow up. That was with my torsion adjuster bolts cranked all the way. Are the GL's and XG's supposed to be the same diameter?


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

That's why I have been holding out. It's only a small increase in spring rate, so the gain will only be minimal.


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## aeronutt (Sep 24, 2008)

Well, I just did a bunch of math to figure out how much improvement you should actually expect. Assuming the front axle weight with plow up is about 4800 lbs and a MAX torque rating difference of only 3.1%, your ride height should have gone up about 1/8 of an inch. You'd get more improvement than that by turning the adjuster bolts 2 turns.

Edit: You switched the new bars to be installed on the "wrong" side. That may weaken their torque capacity if they are pre-stressed to the other direction. I don't know that they are, but it's a possibility. Flipping them end-for-end does not change torque direction back again. My previous pen twisting example can be better illustrated by taking a bolt with a nut loosely attached. 

1) Hold the nut, twist the bolt right. It tightens. 
2) Flip it end-for end so you hold the bolt, twist the nut right. Either way, it tightens. 

The only way to make twisting to the right loosen it is to buy left-handed thread bolts and nuts. Flipping end-for-end does not "fix" having them on the wrong side. 

I'm totally stabbing in the dark here because I'm pretty much baffled, but since we already know that installing them the "right" way breaks tools and gives way too much lift, perhaps you need to get the keys from an earlier model to compensate for the extra couple of degrees that the hex heads are indexed.


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## aeronutt (Sep 24, 2008)

Hey, I just realized nobody has mentioned TIMBRENS in this thread. If you don't have 'em, get 'em. It fixes front end sag 95% of the time and it's WAY easier than swapping bars.


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## stevesmowing (Jul 14, 2004)

with the bars switched side for side and end for end they are being twisted the correct way still. Look at your pen again. I will be buying both blue keys and timbrens for the truck too.


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