# Starting out



## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

I'm new to the business and want to start out in my neighborhood of about 18 houses. Problem is, nearly everyone has someone who already plows for them. Should I feel bad if I start plowing for two houses because the guy who does their plowing will have two less houses? I kind of do already but everyone has to start out somewhere.

What do you guys think?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Are the 2 under contract already?


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

Not sure I'll check with them. Do they usually have contracts?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

If someone is already plowing the drives, do you think it's just a guy driving around helping random people out? Are you gunna be using the Toyota or ranger?


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

It's definitely not. I live in a pretty well to do neighborhood and when we looked at plow service ten years ago it was like $70 per plow. The Ranger had a frame problem and we sold it. The Tacoma's my dads and I now have a 2001 f250 5.4l.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

You have insurance?


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

We didn't have it for that one as we got it recently and found the problem soon after. It was too expensive to replace so we sold it and got the f250 last week.


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

I f everyone has someone plowing for them what makes you think people will sign on with you. What size are the driveways that were paying $70.00 ten years ago ? Ten years ago you were lucky to get $20.00 for a driveway here.


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

Ours is about 80ft long and we decided to snowblow and shovel it for free.


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

jimbo64;1895621 said:


> I f everyone has someone plowing for them what makes you think people will sign on with you. What size are the driveways that were paying $70.00 ten years ago ? Ten years ago you were lucky to get $20.00 for a driveway here.


And I'll do it for $35 and they know me well


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

Should I just put an ad on craigslist for my area?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

You have insurance? As in for plowing?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Wescustogo;1895626 said:


> And I'll do it for $35 and they know me well


Really. You'll be that low baller huh


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

Why would you do it for $35 when they were paying $70 then years ago? Are you a real Business? Have insurance? Have a backup plan when the truck breaks down? Don't be the lowball guy.  After you realize all the costs you will be glad that you are not.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

I would walk around with flyers and stick them on mailboxes with a price written on it and maybe a business card stapled to it. See what kind of response you get.


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

Yep, got it as soon as we could.


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

LapeerLandscape;1895636 said:


> I would walk around with flyers and stick them on mailboxes with a price written on it and maybe a business card stapled to it. See what kind of response you get.


That's what I was thinking of doing. I don't want to get more people I can handle though.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Give them these options and let them choose what they want. Just make it clear they don't have to choose all 3.
plow drive $
shovel walk $
salt sidewalk $


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

Wescustogo;1895652 said:


> That's what I was thinking of doing. I don't want to get more people I can handle though.


If I was talking about starting a plowing business on Dec.9 I wouldn't be worrying about getting more people than I could handle.


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

jimbo64;1895665 said:


> If I was talking about starting a plowing business on Dec.9 I wouldn't be worrying about getting more people than I could handle.


Good point


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

So you have g.l. insurance? 
You have a back up plan?
Never answered bout being lower then the going rate?


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

I don't have any liability insurance and don't plan to unless this works out. I have no back up plan at the moment besides a FEL tractor I could use. I'll check to see what my neighbors are paying. I guess I could bump it up to $45-$50...


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## hackitdown (Oct 10, 2007)

Wescustogo;1895747 said:


> I guess I could bump it up to $45-$50...


If the customer is paying $70 now, and is willing to drop their current guy based on price, wouldn't $65 do the trick? Why on earth would you offer such a low price? I would double-check your assumption, that $70 seems steep. If the local competition is that high, that is a good thing.

I would try a different approach. There is almost no advantage to targeting your little neighborhood. Selling based on price is a race to the bottom.

Place an ad, or spread some fliers, or hang notices. Put out a sign. Let the customers call you. Then give them a fair price, in writing, and you are in business.


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

hackitdown;1897273 said:


> If the customer is paying $70 now, and is willing to drop their current guy based on price, wouldn't $65 do the trick? Why on earth would you offer such a low price? I would double-check your assumption, that $70 seems steep. If the local competition is that high, that is a good thing.
> 
> I would try a different approach. There is almost no advantage to targeting your little neighborhood. Selling based on price is a race to the bottom.
> 
> Place an ad, or spread some fliers, or hang notices. Put out a sign. Let the customers call you. Then give them a fair price, in writing, and you are in business.


I just remembered my friend went to college this year and he normally plows at least a dozen or more driveways so I'll post something out where he was.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

hackitdown;1897273 said:


> If the customer is paying $70 now, and is willing to drop their current guy based on price, wouldn't $65 do the trick? Why on earth would you offer such a low price? I would double-check your assumption, that $70 seems steep. If the local competition is that high, that is a good thing.
> 
> I would try a different approach. There is almost no advantage to targeting your little neighborhood. Selling based on price is a race to the bottom.
> 
> Place an ad, or spread some fliers, or hang notices. Put out a sign. Let the customers call you. Then give them a fair price, in writing, and you are in business.


AND making enough to STAY in business. And by the way, you are walking the plank to operate without at least having a general liability policy in place. In today's litigious times, all it takes is one accident to put you OUT of business. And when they sue you, and you don't have it, and your business doesn't have deep enough pockets to satisfy their attorney's cut, he will take your house to make up for it. DON'T work without it!


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

derekslawncare;1897288 said:


> AND making enough to STAY in business. And by the way, you are walking the plank to operate without at least having a general liability policy in place. In today's litigious times, all it takes is one accident to put you OUT of business. And when they sue you, and you don't have it, and your business doesn't have deep enough pockets to satisfy their attorney's cut, he will take your house to make up for it. DON'T work without it!


I'm only 17 so I don't think that it's going to really go anywhere. Also I have a lobster fishing business but I have nothing to do in the winter.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

If you don't think it's gunna go anywhere then why are you bothering starting your own business. Hire in as a sub for someone else and be done!


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

dieselss;1897457 said:


> If you don't think it's gunna go anywhere then why are you bothering starting your own business. Hire in as a sub for someone else and be done!


I mean go anywhere as in become something I do every year. I'm only doing this to make a little extra money during this and next year's winters. I think I'll have to start next year.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Well good for you for being one of the few "young adults" these days with gumption and motivation to get out and work hard for what you have instead of sitting back thinking that everything should fall into your lap ready made and on a silver platter. To look at most of today's youth makes me want to puke. If it's not on Facebook, Instagram or Xbox, it must not be important as far as most of them are concerned. Then they walk outside of work at the local fast food dive and think they should be making $15.00/hr for flipping burgers. PLEASE. Give me a break. Having said that, either do it or don't do it, but don't do it half assed or that will be the reputation you build yourself in your area for it, "Don't hire him, he's ___________ fill in the blank."


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## Fannin76 (Jan 1, 2014)

Wescustogo;1897471 said:


> I mean go anywhere as in become something I do every year. I'm only doing this to make a little extra money during this and next year's winters. I think I'll have to start next year.


Then Get A fuc*ing Job At Mcdonalds. You don't have Gl insurance or anything. You dont Care About This Profession Like The Rest Of Us. Its Not A get Rich quick scheme.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Fannin76;1897481 said:


> Then Get A fuc*ing Job At Mcdonalds


See above. You and I share similar thought processes apparently. Thumbs Up


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

I would be interested in knowing how you manage to have a lobster fishing business at age 15. I've never heard of a 15year old in that business. With the way the fishery has been going the last few years I doubt any licences have been issued and I also wonder how you came up with the money for a boat and traps and again insurance.


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## Fannin76 (Jan 1, 2014)

derekslawncare;1897482 said:


> See above. You and I share similar thought processes apparently. Thumbs Up


I'm still new to the snow game. this is my second year but ive sunk 15k in it in the last 2 years. and my heart and soul. then you got people that think oh man i can do it for crack head prices and make a killing. become legit and see if your crack head prices are still ok. lol


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

Fannin76;1897481 said:


> Then Get A fuc*ing Job At Mcdonalds. You don't have Gl insurance or anything. You dont Care About This Profession Like The Rest Of Us. Its Not A get Rich quick scheme.


My lobster fishing wasn't either. I lost my boat, an investment of $8000, in a storm this year. I'm just trying to give myself a little extra to make up for the loss that took away every penny I earned. Working at Mcdonalds or supermarkets is the last thing I would ever do.


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

derekslawncare;1897480 said:


> Well good for you for being one of the few "young adults" these days with gumption and motivation to get out and work hard for what you have instead of sitting back thinking that everything should fall into your lap ready made and on a silver platter. To look at most of today's youth makes me want to puke. If it's not on Facebook, Instagram or Xbox, it must not be important as far as most of them are concerned. Then they walk outside of work at the local fast food dive and think they should be making $15.00/hr for flipping burgers. PLEASE. Give me a break. Having said that, either do it or don't do it, but don't do it half assed or that will be the reputation you build yourself in your area for it, "Don't hire him, he's "been bull sitting us for a couple of days"


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

Fannin76;1897486 said:


> I'm still new to the snow game. this is my second year but ive sunk 15k in it in the last 2 years. and my heart and soul. then you got people that think oh man i can do it for crack head prices and make a killing. become legit and see if your crack head prices are still ok. lol


I've sunken money too. Twenty feet down to the bottom of the bay. But if someone is charging $70 per plow for a 60ft driveway, I don't think it's right.


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

Wescustogo;1897285 said:


> I just remembered my friend went to college this year and he normally plows at least a dozen or more driveways so I'll post something out where he was.


At least he didn't go down with your lobster boat.


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## Fannin76 (Jan 1, 2014)

Wescustogo;1897487 said:


> My lobster fishing wasn't either. I lost my boat, an investment of $8000, in a storm this year. I'm just trying to give myself a little extra to make up for the loss that took away every penny I earned. Working at Mcdonalds or supermarkets is the last thing I would ever do.


isnt lobster fishing in your area like a lemonade stand in the midwest for you young kids?


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## Fannin76 (Jan 1, 2014)

Wescustogo;1897490 said:


> I've sunken money too. Twenty feet down to the bottom of the bay. But if someone is charging $70 per plow for a 60ft driveway, I don't think it's right.


because you don't know your costs!


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

jimbo64;1897484 said:


> I would be interested in knowing how you manage to have a lobster fishing business at age 15. I've never heard of a 15year old in that business. With the way the fishery has been going the last few years I doubt any licences have been issued and I also wonder how you came up with the money for a boat and traps and again insurance.


I did not have insurance for my boat and there are many kids that start out at 10 or 12 years old and work their way up to 150 traps by 15 years old. I worked for a commercial lobsterman who had 800 traps and built my first boat. The traps I got for $3 each and spend about a hundred hours each year working on them. I made the mistake of not having insurance as the boat sank this year.


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks for all of your opinions and suggestions! I have decided to talk to one or two people and plow for them and plan for next year.


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

Fannin76;1897494 said:


> isnt lobster fishing in your area like a lemonade stand in the midwest for you young kids?


I get up at 5am and work all day until four or five. That plus the smell of decaying fish and having to handle it all day makes it a bit different than selling lemonade.


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## Fannin76 (Jan 1, 2014)

Wescustogo;1897502 said:


> I get up at 5am and work all day until four or five. That plus the smell of decaying fish and having to handle it all day makes it a bit different than selling lemonade.


im not saying dont do it. im saying do it legit.


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

10 year olds are not physically able to handle the work on a commercial fishing boat. Also they are not legally able to work on them either. If a lobsterfisher ever caught you setting traps on your own in his territory he would probably scuttle you...or is that what happened to your lobster boat. That must have been an awful loss, even a used lobster boat is very expensive and to be able to buy one with a fishing licence would be a huge investment if you could even find one for sale.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Wescustogo;1897497 said:


> I did not have insurance for my boat and there are many kids that start out at 10 or 12 years old and work their way up to 150 traps by 15 years old. I worked for a commercial lobsterman who had 800 traps and built my first boat. The traps I got for $3 each and spend about a hundred hours each year working on them. I made the mistake of not having insurance as the boat sank this year.


I'm very sorry to hear about your boat. I wouldn't wish something like that on anyone (except maybe my ex wife). Glad you are ok, but, reference you not charging enough and not having G.L., do you really want to go through that a second time in our industry? We are trying to help, but we also don't like it when people come into our industry and try to low ball those of us who operate a legitimate business, (any more than I would guess you would like someone competing with you without getting/paying for fishing license and permits and coast guard certs and everything you need to fish legally) right? If you are going to get into snow & ice management, do it right and legally or don't do it at all.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Wescustogo;1897501 said:


> Thanks for all of your opinions and suggestions! I have decided to talk to one or two people and plow for them and plan for next year.


There ya go. That's the best idea. I'll add, make sure there legit as well.


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## Wescustogo (Jan 30, 2014)

jimbo64;1897509 said:


> 10 year olds are not physically able to handle the work on a commercial fishing boat. Also they are not legally able to work on them either. If a lobsterfisher ever caught you setting traps on your own in his territory he would probably scuttle you...or is that what happened to your lobster boat. That must have been an awful loss, even a used lobster boat is very expensive and to be able to buy one with a fishing licence would be a huge investment if you could even find one for sale.


There are many kids I know who started working on their father's lobster boat when they were ten years old and had their own traps too. And there isn't a single area owned by any one lobsterman up here but we keep to ourselves. But if you set a string of traps right over some guys then sure he'll probably cut them if they're too tangled. And a license is $65 for apprentice age people like myself but the full commercial are I think $150. There is a waiting list for commercial licenses but if you complete a thousand hours of fishing on your apprentice, you can bypass it. Finally, thankfully my boat was caught in some heavy seas heading home but I made it to my mooring. The next morning it was at the bottom.


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## UniqueTouch (Dec 25, 2013)

Yea def dont be that low baller bro its not cool and there is plenty of water in the well for all and if they are gonns drop there guy for you the same will happen to you down the road, everyone wants to get it overnight and its not practical go work for someone to get experience plus youll make 70 to 100 an hour and youll learn. Everyone and their brother wants to start their ow business its getting ridiculous, soon everyone in the world gonna have their own business lol. Here in jersey 100 new guys a day throw a mower in their truck unreal and have no insurance nor are they registered paying taxes, but they want in our wallets


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