# What should my employees make per hour?



## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

Ok, so my company is not even doing bids anymore for snow removal because I already am filled up for the year. Last year I had only one employee, but this year I will have 3 + myself. 

I will have 2 guys responsible for snow blowing and shoveling at condo Associations. Both of these guys will make $15 per hour. Then I have one guy that will be returning from last year that was just a snow blower/shoveler last year, but will be plowing this year. Last year he made $16. This year I am giving him a raise, so he will be making $17.50.

What would other company's pay hourly for these types of workers?


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## bigthom (Oct 14, 2010)

assuming he is plowing in ur truck that sounds decent to me


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

My contractor pays his guys 18 an hour to use his trucks.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Sounds right on the Shovelers/Blowers. The Plowing wage is low, $20.00/Hr at least.


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## cold_and_tired (Dec 18, 2008)

I pay anyone that is driving/operating any equipment, including trucks, at least $20 an hour. Your shoveling wage sounds dead on to me.


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

Considering this is his first year every plowing and also considering he just broke a window at a house with a stump grinder, I'm going to leave him at $17.50 this year. Its already a $1.50 increase over last year anyway. 

thanks for your imput guys. Much appreciated.


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## Elite Property Services (Oct 28, 2008)

I pay $25 but usually all my drivers are extremely qualified and do a good job. There also is light shoveling.


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## blk90s13 (Sep 1, 2005)

$20/hr for operators and $15/hr for shovelers 


How did he manage to break a window with a stump grinder ?


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

blk90s13;1091548 said:


> $20/hr for operators and $15/hr for shovelers
> 
> How did he manage to break a window with a stump grinder ?


I have no idea actually. I went to grab something and was gone for 10 min, came back and he showed me it. It was a basement window so it was right at the level he was grinding, but he said the grinder seemed to get caught on something and pulled him into the house.

I just really have no idea. I have never had a stump grinder pull me and have used them hundreds of times... lol


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

lawnlandscape;1091719 said:


> I have no idea actually. I went to grab something and was gone for 10 min, came back and he showed me it. It was a basement window so it was right at the level he was grinding, but he said the grinder seemed to get caught on something and pulled him into the house.
> 
> I just really have no idea. I have never had a stump grinder pull me and have used them hundreds of times... lol


Stuff happens! Its the cost of doing business I guess. Around here (the snow plowing dumpster for pricing) wages can go for 12-15 for sidewalks and 10-high teen's for plowing in a company vehicle.


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## blk90s13 (Sep 1, 2005)

lawnlandscape;1091719 said:


> I have no idea actually. I went to grab something and was gone for 10 min, came back and he showed me it. It was a basement window so it was right at the level he was grinding, but he said the grinder seemed to get caught on something and pulled him into the house.
> 
> I just really have no idea. I have never had a stump grinder pull me and have used them hundreds of times... lol


Oh the machine went through the window ? lol  he must be a little guy

I was thinking something flew out the grinds and you being unreal for counting against him hell he would never touch a power tool if he is on my crew for a while :realmad:


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

blk90s13;1091877 said:


> Oh the machine went through the window ? lol  he must be a little guy
> 
> I was thinking something flew out the grinds and you being unreal for counting against him hell he would never touch a power tool if he is on my crew for a while :realmad:


ya the machine hit the window... lol And no.. hes actually a pretty big guy.. I just dont understand what happened exactly, but I could see the 2' grove where he made his path straight into the window.


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## ff610 (Jan 9, 2009)

Simple. Pay your people what you can afford to pay them so you can still run a profitable business, and understand some simple rules. If you take care of your employees, you won't have any trouble counting on them to show up at 1am or on Christmas morning. Pay them average or lower wages then expect some occasional or frequent problems. I have learned over the years it's more valuable to find the "right employee" rather then "a employee" hands down. My guys would do anything for me, but in return I will try to do the same. You get what you pay for!


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## swtiih (Nov 30, 2008)

good hard reliable and careful workers that are making you money are worth keeping happy


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## bigthom (Oct 14, 2010)

i agree. in my area new guys are 10 to 15 an hour in our trucks. if they use their own truck its obviously more. it all depends on experience and how they perform.


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## speralandscape (Dec 28, 2008)

I think that is a fair price for his first year plowing as it will take him some time to become efficient, at which time you could give him a raise if you feel he deserves it.


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## msu1510 (Jan 25, 2010)

1st year in a truck, start him as low as you can until he proves he is worth more, then give him what he is worth to you. i cannot tell you how many guys tell me they are "experienced" then they back the truck into something and cost me $ and they are pissed they are not making enough.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

in chicago i have made 25 an hour when i was drinving my boses truck when mine hit the ****ter!


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

I'm in Dayton, Ohio and my starting rates are $8/hr per unskilled laborer and $14/hr per driver. That is just starting....and to be honest I pay myself $14 until I know I am in the clear, and then I bump my own to $22/hr when I know I'm getting my money. I take care of my guys very quickly too.

Look at it this way...
Who is looking for these jobs? Why are they looking? and can they survive at that rate? That is how I set my minimums. I start at $14 and then usually if I want to keep 'em I bring 'em in house and if it works the next season I bump them up mid 2nd season to $16 and then I see how it goes. The more valuable they are, the more I pay them. I have a guy that will earn twice my own normal wage because he does so much for me....but then again I get the owner's share and a bunch of cool toys......

A reliable $14 an hour is life changing for guys in my area. I want to change lives....not give them false hopes and then fail. Take care of the good ones as long as you can make money with them. If not let them choose where to go and give them a positive reference.


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

$14 per hour 'life changing'? for snow removal? Last year was a somewhat light year an my guys only got about 120 hours all season.

120 X 14 = $1,680

November 1st - April 15th = 23 weeks

$1,680 / 23 weeks = $73.00 per week. How can anyone possibly live on that? (And thats gross wages!! They still got taxes coming out of that)


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

lawnlandscape;1094721 said:


> $14 per hour 'life changing'? for snow removal? Last year was a somewhat light year an my guys only got about 120 hours all season.
> 
> 120 X 14 = $1,680
> 
> ...


All of my guys are on call. They get a 10 hour retainer for being on call at the end of the season and they usually have other jobs. 73 bucks a week is food on the table for them. I'm not the lowest paying around here by far! I know guys paying just over min wage to drivers. Plus that's just entry level. Most guys earn more because they stick around....and a lot of them are young and 14 an hour with some freedom sounds better than half that flipping burgers.... It isn't that physically demanding 80 percent of the time.


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

I just interviewed a guy yesterday who said he was making $35/hour. He worked for the same company for 20 years, plowing in their truck. My top guy right now makes $25/hour. He said he wasn't expecting to start off at that rate, he knows he was at the top of the pay scale.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

wizardsr;1094882 said:


> I just interviewed a guy yesterday who said he was making $35/hour. He worked for the same company for 20 years, plowing in their truck. My top guy right now makes $25/hour. He said he wasn't expecting to start off at that rate, he knows he was at the top of the pay scale.


Wow! That's a lot. What kind of truck was he plowing in.


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## wizardsr (Aug 8, 2006)

WIPensFan;1094883 said:


> Wow! That's a lot. What kind of truck was he plowing in.


GM 3/4 ton within a few years old with a Western Vee. I guess this guy bought new trucks every few years. He said the only reason he's looking for work is that the company went under after the owner passed away.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

wizardsr;1094886 said:


> GM 3/4 ton within a few years old with a Western Vee. I guess this guy bought new trucks every few years. He said the only reason he's looking for work is that the company went under after the owner passed away.


Thought maybe he was operating something big with CDL requirement. Maybe they went under because they paid him $35/Hr.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Driver/operator dosent really make "that" much more (couple bucks/hr maybe) than a walk guy with me....in fact, my lead walk guy makes more than any operator/driver probably ever will for me. I have found it easier to find "good" operators than to find "good" walk guys.

Either way, you pay good help a good wage, throw em a little extra somethin here and there when they have been doing a good job, and treat them with respect....they will stay with you. 

Whether it be concrete or snow work, I know good help the first day.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

snocrete;1094904 said:


> Driver/operator dosent really make "that" much more (couple bucks/hr maybe) than a walk guy with me....in fact, my lead walk guy makes more than any operator/driver probably ever will for me. I have found it easier to find "good" operators than to find "good" walk guys.
> 
> Either way, you pay good help a good wage, throw em a little extra somethin here and there when they have been doing a good job, and treat them with respect....they will stay with you.
> 
> *Whether it be concrete or snow work, I know good help the first day.*




Well said.....A lttle bit extra goes a long way with a good employee...Make them feel that they are a part of somthing...Not just a peace of meat.....As far as how much to pay them........Thats up to the market and your pocket book....


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## kcress31 (Sep 20, 2009)

wizardsr;1094882 said:


> I just interviewed a guy yesterday who said he was making $35/hour. He worked for the same company for 20 years, plowing in their truck. My top guy right now makes $25/hour. He said he wasn't expecting to start off at that rate, he knows he was at the top of the pay scale.


$35 / hr sounds a little high to me, especially if all he was doing was operating a machine with no supervision duties. We hired a guy a while ago at $20 / hr and he kept reminding us that someone else was offering him $25. That other offer never materialized and he kept working for us.


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

DaytonBioLawns;1094850 said:


> All of my guys are on call. They get a 10 hour retainer for being on call at the end of the season and they usually have other jobs. 73 bucks a week is food on the table for them. I'm not the lowest paying around here by far! I know guys paying just over min wage to drivers. Plus that's just entry level. Most guys earn more because they stick around....and a lot of them are young and 14 an hour with some freedom sounds better than half that flipping burgers.... It isn't that physically demanding 80 percent of the time.


None of my guys have other jobs. They can't (at least one with set hours), or they will not be able to be reliable for me.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

kcress31;1095001 said:


> $35 / hr sounds a little high to me, especially if all he was doing was operating a machine with no supervision duties. We hired a guy a while ago at $20 / hr and he kept reminding us that someone else was offering him $25. That other offer never materialized and he kept working for us.


It really depends what market you operate in and how many hours you actually work. Your living expenses are pretty reasonable compared to our area.


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## kcress31 (Sep 20, 2009)

JD Dave;1095009 said:


> It really depends what market you operate in and how many hours you actually work. Your living expenses are pretty reasonable compared to our area.


Yeah, the living expenses where I am are pretty low. Except for groceries. I lived in Aurora, ON for 2 years before moving back to north west ontario and what a shock for groceries when I moved back north. Got to love the house prices here though.


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## snowtech (Sep 18, 2010)

what ever you pay your guys they will think its not enough and they will make a mistake which will have you wondering if you are over paying them


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## ff610 (Jan 9, 2009)

snowtech;1095033 said:


> what ever you pay your guys they will think its not enough and they will make a mistake which will have you wondering if you are over paying them


Find the right employees and be honest this won't happen much! If it does their nor right or your not.


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## snowtech (Sep 18, 2010)

ff610- we do try to find the right employees but even after checking refrences and background check its still possible for the slugs to get through. i guess i'm a little down on employees right now b/c i just had to let a 3 year employee go b/c i found him filling up his personal truck with my fuel pump. Just goes to show no matter how long they have been around you can never totally trust anyone.


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## JohnRoscoe (Sep 27, 2010)

We work hard to treat our shovel guys like gold. For those that are with us year-round, that means a fat automatic premium on their regularly hourly rate anytime they touch a snow shovel, blower, or salt bucket. We always buy lunch during big storms and provide hot and cold beverages. 

The guys on the ground are the lifeblood of our organization: I can plow all night to catch up, get on the backhoe at the end of a long day to stack snow higher, or make one more pass to get a lot salted, but I can never make up for all the handwork that our ground guys do.

It's my goal that our ground guys look forward to a big snow because they know they'll make good money, and be well taken care of.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

pay your guys what there worth in gold. ALL my guys make the same per hour that includes the guys shoveling or driving the truck. I did have one complainer about that driving in much more resposiblity. That got fixed real quick when he shoveled the next storm to learn some respect for what they due. I never heard about it again from him. At the end of the day everybody makes it work as a team. My guys even get on the road before me with no phone calls. I pay them very well per hour the other thing is they get paid 4 hours min for everything. if they work 15 minutes sanding a lot or checking lot conditions they get 4 hours. All meals are paid for then we are plowing full bellys make for happy people.


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## albhb3 (Dec 18, 2007)

I gotta say for the unknown hours, driving conditions, and just complete Jacka$$es out there I would say a minimum of 15 but just like anything else it depends on your area. Shoveling sucks I must admit been there done that sitting in a skid I get cramped and my knees kill afterwords and I am only 21. And there is always that curb that is there when you swear it wasnt the night before and somehow you turn into a slinky and hit the door. Trucks I dont mind the only thing that sucks is the blindspots and the people who park in your way when it is all but too obvious of where your going. However I still wouldnt want to do anything differently. well except fish of course


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

I like many of your practices (everyone that listed above). I think many of you are confused about how 14 an hour is life changing. I don't pay most of my guys an hourly. A lot of them are subs and I base my rate off of a 14 dollar minimum even if they are on the slower side. I pay flat rate per job...that way my better driver (more productive and high quality) get paid better. The raise for the subs is a change in the base calculated pay....So if they are awesome at what they do....based off of 14 an hour and they go faster and achieve 25 an hour because of productivity, when their base rate goes up it alllows them to break a pay level if their productivity has plateaud....So if they were stuck at 25 and were doing a good job the 16 an hour base may give them the boost and drive to shoot for 30 an hour......

BTW for having such flexible work.... my guys get steady pay and benefits in fall and winter and can make any arrangements with me. Most guys have a steady job for at least 6 months in the year. I am willing to make arrangements with my guys' employers to make sure I always have drivers and still can get guys a fair pay (number of hours). I plan on using a daily cycle for this year. So monday one guy works for me, tuesday he can go into his other job at x hour.... same goes for every day in the week. This helps me keep alternates around and ready during the winter. All guys over 20 hours on the alternate list get a premium or a bonus at the end of the work cycle................... It works well! I have 2 Emergency plow operators on standby (they operate for FD/PD at our twp.) and I have 2 city drivers, 1 trucker, and my father.....and then a couple regular subs. It allows us to keep good ones....and ya! Pay for meals and drinks during down time when your with 'em......they help you pay your bills! don't go cheap!!!!!..................


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

DaytonBioLawns;1095924 said:


> I like many of your practices (everyone that listed above). I think many of you are confused about how 14 an hour is life changing. I don't pay most of my guys an hourly. A lot of them are subs and I base my rate off of a 14 dollar minimum even if they are on the slower side. I pay flat rate per job...that way my better driver (more productive and high quality) get paid better. The raise for the subs is a change in the base calculated pay....So if they are awesome at what they do....based off of 14 an hour and they go faster and achieve 25 an hour because of productivity, when their base rate goes up it alllows them to break a pay level if their productivity has plateaud....So if they were stuck at 25 and were doing a good job the 16 an hour base may give them the boost and drive to shoot for 30 an hour......
> 
> BTW for having such flexible work.... my guys get steady pay and benefits in fall and winter and can make any arrangements with me. Most guys have a steady job for at least 6 months in the year. I am willing to make arrangements with my guys' employers to make sure I always have drivers and still can get guys a fair pay (number of hours). I plan on using a daily cycle for this year. So monday one guy works for me, tuesday he can go into his other job at x hour.... same goes for every day in the week. This helps me keep alternates around and ready during the winter. All guys over 20 hours on the alternate list get a premium or a bonus at the end of the work cycle................... It works well! I have 2 Emergency plow operators on standby (they operate for FD/PD at our twp.) and I have 2 city drivers, 1 trucker, and my father.....and then a couple regular subs. It allows us to keep good ones....and ya! Pay for meals and drinks during down time when your with 'em......they help you pay your bills! don't go cheap!!!!!..................


I had to read this twice, and still have questions... sounds extremely confusing, but whatever works for you.. lol

Just 2 comments.
1) If I ever have anyone on the 'slower side', they can drag their feet right out the door.

2) My first year in business I paid on a per job basis. I found that doing this makes people try to go faster then they really should. I had a few problems (not major) of things getting broken and changed this to set hourly rates. I sat my guys down and explained to them that going fast is extremely important to me because other customers are waiting, but being safe and not damaging anything is #1. Havn't had one problem any year since (knock on wood).

I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but if its working for you... great.


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

lawnlandscape;1096176 said:


> I had to read this twice, and still have questions... sounds extremely confusing, but whatever works for you.. lol
> 
> Just 2 comments.
> 1) If I ever have anyone on the 'slower side', they can drag their feet right out the door.
> ...


I have some of those issues....that's why my '01 1500 is now a beater.....we bought it new in '01 lol........BUT! I have to say that people milking the clock is wayyyyyyyyyyy more common than those breaking front ends! Some of the competitors that we trade business with use the same system we do...and it is the only system they swear by. It is the only one I use now. I got tired of handing out papers to every clock-milking SOB out there (everyone!). I also stress safety and not damaging anything. I now have my guys sign papers stating they will pay up for damages caused by them (although I eat costs if its not a biggie and I want to keep the driver).

I had one guy hit a building when I paid hourly....he was the only one that rushed hourly. I still have him LOL. (only because I owned the building that got hit.....luckily!)

To tell you the truth, when I paid hourly nothing got done according to our estimated time (we based the quotes off of them and lost it). When I went per job, some of the same guys beat my times by 50% and I put more in my pocket. I have one injury and one truck with a broken front end since I moved to doing per job. Sadly, I fell off of the tailgate loading bags of salt (that was the only injury), and I was the one that did the damage to the front end. So, out of 5 guys running the system, the owner was the only one to abuse the system....I'd say that it's a good system. I was showing off for a girl when I broke countless front end parts.......

_My incident went as follows.....
*" ya baby you can do a ride along! " I* said. Then (radio from another unit) *"Hey, You can't move that pile with the 1/2 ton, wait for me" *(came from the unit with the V blade). And then I said* "I'll show you how the Pavlak's get the job done"* over the radio (my father owned it in the 80's and the same guys worked for him that work for me now). The other unit responded *"Don't do anything stupid'*

Guess what? I did something stupid! I hit over a ton of packed/icy snow head on and broke front end parts. Luckily a few years later that girl still thinks I'm cool....guess it was cause I moved the pile all the way to where it needed to be..........and then hopped a curb and got stuck. But its ok, she forgot about the second half that involved straps, jacks, sledge hammers, and a lot of embarrassing looks as every competitor passed....

But hey! I was at a used car/garage and they had the parts to fix me up less than 30 feet away...... _


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

DaytonBioLawns;1096194 said:


> I have some of those issues....that's why my '01 1500 is now a beater.....we bought it new in '01 lol........BUT! I have to say that people milking the clock is wayyyyyyyyyyy more common than those breaking front ends! Some of the competitors that we trade business with use the same system we do...and it is the only system they swear by. It is the only one I use now. I got tired of handing out papers to every clock-milking SOB out there (everyone!). I also stress safety and not damaging anything. I now have my guys sign papers stating they will pay up for damages caused by them (although I eat costs if its not a biggie and I want to keep the driver).
> 
> I had one guy hit a building when I paid hourly....he was the only one that rushed hourly. I still have him LOL. (only because I owned the building that got hit.....luckily!)
> 
> ...


:laughing: Now that's some funny ****! "Ya baby you can do a ride along!" :laughing:


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

WIPensFan;1096201 said:


> :laughing: Now that's some funny ****! "Ya baby you can do a ride along!" :laughing:


Ya but it was well worth the front end parts... She's still my girl friend two years later...its not how we met, but it was part of how we got close! I guess you could say I did a parts trade....my front end (on my truck) for her parts.....:laughing: I was just trying to keep her entertained! lol


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

YOU HAVE DIRTIED MY THREAD WITH YOUR FILTH! :crying:

Good thing I was done with it.


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## DaytonBioLawns (May 20, 2010)

lawnlandscape;1096207 said:


> YOU HAVE DIRTIED MY THREAD WITH YOUR FILTH! :crying:
> 
> Good thing I was done with it.


I did manage to do that! Sorry 'bout that one!!! I do have more info though! I guess you could say I pay 14-25 all said and done per hour. One of my competitors offered to sub me out at 20 an hour....and another said 16.5 is where his drivers start. So I guess we are all in the same area here. All of the one man owner-operator guys up here do it for no less than $20/hr....theyre wise cause that's about what I make.
Why are you looking for pay rates?


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## lawnlandscape (Oct 8, 2009)

DaytonBioLawns;1096211 said:


> Why are you looking for pay rates?


Just want to see what others are paying to be sure I'm being fair with my guys.


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## kcress31 (Sep 20, 2009)

DaytonBioLawns;1096211 said:


> I did manage to do that! Sorry 'bout that one!!! I do have more info though! I guess you could say I pay 14-25 all said and done per hour. One of my competitors offered to sub me out at 20 an hour....and another said 16.5 is where his drivers start. So I guess we are all in the same area here. All of the one man owner-operator guys up here do it for no less than $20/hr....theyre wise cause that's about what I make.
> Why are you looking for pay rates?


I don't know if I could pay my guys more if they produced more ( in General and depending on the job. I have done the math in various jobs where we were hauling aggregate and getting paid by the ton. I worked a 10 hr day doing the speed limit and accelerating slowly and so on -- then I did the exact same haul going 10 -15 km over the speed limit and I did get one extra load in for the day but it all went out the window in fuel, plus you have the extra mileage on the truck and wearing out the brakes and tires and son on. If I have a guy not producing in the snow, I either train him on how to be more efficient or replace him if he can't improve.


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