# v plow or kage



## bobcat310 (Jan 5, 2011)

What do you guys think the v plow or the kage box system for my skidsteer I have a 773g bobcat.I take care of 80 condo units alot of backdragging and pushing.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Kage. Perfect for what you want to do.


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## bobcat310 (Jan 5, 2011)

WIPensFan;1187559 said:


> Kage. Perfect for what you want to do.


Do you own a kage snowplow?The risen is I seen a nice v plow from Hiniker for the skidsteer called the Ox.check it out the price is around 3,800


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## NorthernSvc's (Mar 12, 2006)

you get what you pay for.. go with the kage...


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

I'd personally go for the Kage in this situation. V-plow's and expanding plows just have way too much (electric over hydraulic solenoids to name one) to go wrong in the middle of the night.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

WIPensFan;1187559 said:


> Kage. Perfect for what you want to do.


x2, Plus this being my first year with a "containment box" set up I can tell you its way better than a V blade. The Kage might cost a bit more but your basically getting two plows in one. I have a Boss skid steer plow with Boss wings and I am considering getting the Kage frame for next year.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

bobcat310;1187659 said:


> Do you own a kage snowplow?The risen is I seen a nice v plow from Hiniker for the skidsteer called the Ox.check it out the price is around 3,800


No, but I own a Snow Wolf with Fast Tach, which is similar. You get a straight blade which is great for back dragging and then the box attachment that you can push it all away with. My plow is built very well, as is the Kage from what I can see and have heard from others on here. IMO the Kage is more versatile than the Hiniker.


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## loaderplower93 (Dec 5, 2007)

Definitely the Kage...I'm getting one as soon as I can afford it.


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## rob_cook2001 (Nov 15, 2008)

Go with the Kage, a 8ft would work great on your 773.
Robert


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## gd8boltman (Dec 18, 2002)

*Go with the 9 foot KAGE,*

the added productivity is impressive and the payback will come sooner than you think.
We love our KAGE.


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## shooterm (Feb 23, 2010)

Does A-frame on these Kage plows hold up better on these with trip edges? The moldboard trip skid plows we have all get A-frame cracks eventually. Looks like a damn good idea though considering the alternatives have alot of moving parts if you want a blade and pusher combo.


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## gd8boltman (Dec 18, 2002)

*Take a look at their website.*

Ours is on a telehandler, have used it 115 hrs. thus far and all is well. The center pivots side to side about 9" and I think that will help the frame work long term. Trip edge has no effect on Kage box, we chose Kage ourselves over Snow Wolf due to the side plates being bolt on and able to be replaced as well as the center pivot and pin set up.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

A Horst snowing will make a Kage look silly production wise. The only problem is they cost more. If you go with a 7-12ft you can do single drive in one pass or you can put your wing backwards and have a box for backdragging. Just giving you different idea's.


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## fargosnowpro (Dec 4, 2010)

JD Dave;1189369 said:


> A Horst snowing will make a Kage look silly production wise. The only problem is they cost more. If you go with a 7-12ft you can do single drive in one pass or you can put your wing backwards and have a box for backdragging. Just giving you different idea's.


If youre considering spending the money for the Kage, I honestly don't see a Horst being too far off base. From what I've seen on the web the Horst seems a lot more stoutly built that the Kage.

To the OP, I would go with a Kage over the OX from Hiniker. The OX looks like a very nice skid V plow, but the Kage WILL out perform the OX. Personally, I would go with and am attempting to secure the funds for Horst snow wings next season, 8' and 10' for our skids and a 12-14' for our loader :yow!:


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

fargosnowpro;1189589 said:


> If youre considering spending the money for the Kage, I honestly don't see a Horst being too far off base. From what I've seen on the web the Horst seems a lot more stoutly built that the Kage.
> 
> To the OP, I would go with a Kage over the OX from Hiniker. The OX looks like a very nice skid V plow, but the Kage WILL out perform the OX. Personally, I would go with and am attempting to secure the funds for Horst snow wings next season, 8' and 10' for our skids and a 12-14' for our loader :yow!:


what would the money comparison be?


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## vamootsman (Oct 5, 2008)

We use a Gehl 5240 (62 hp) with a cheap snow shark pusher, and it works circles around the trucks on the lot, one with a boss V, and one with a Snoway 29R. Next year we will have a Kage or a Horst Snowing on a bigger skid or small loader, and send one of the trucks somewhere else, as the containment plows on skids are just that frigg'n good. A guy next to us is running a Bobcat with a Kage on a lot that they used to put 2 trucks on, and he's in and out so fast it still leaves me shaking my head, including loading and unloading the skid.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

If I had the reason to, I'd get one of these instead.

As long as you had a skid big enough to use it that is.

http://www.danielsplows.com/


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## fargosnowpro (Dec 4, 2010)

xtreem3d;1189925 said:


> what would the money comparison be?


The Kage is a few grand more than the OX.. the Horst is a few grand more than the Kage payup I've seen the OX, Kage and Horst all close up but have never used any. The Horst blades look like they are made for hard commercial use while the Kage and OX are definatly on the lighter end of the scale.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

fargosnowpro;1190416 said:


> The Kage is a few grand more than the OX.. the Horst is a few grand more than the Kage payup I've seen the OX, Kage and Horst all close up but have never used any. The Horst blades look like they are made for hard commercial use while the Kage and OX are definatly on the lighter end of the scale.


I totally agree with you. Here's one for sale here, not sure what shipping to the states would be. http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...esSnowWing-Skidsteer-Mount-W0QQAdIdZ250249458


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## cf1128 (Jan 14, 2009)

JD Dave;1190648 said:


> I totally agree with you. Here's one for sale here, not sure what shipping to the states would be. http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...esSnowWing-Skidsteer-Mount-W0QQAdIdZ250249458


That is a good price, worth the road trip from OH. JD Dave is offering up some good advice and a place to buy it, that is full service! Check out some Vids, the Horst is over built and if you didn't love it, would re-sell in minutes. Try finding a used one on the East Coast


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## fargosnowpro (Dec 4, 2010)

cf1128;1190845 said:


> That is a good price, worth the road trip from OH. JD Dave is offering up some good advice and a place to buy it, that is full service! Check out some Vids, the Horst is over built and if you didn't love it, would re-sell in minutes. Try finding a used one on the East Coast


Thats an excellent price, whats a few hours behind the wheel anyway?!


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

fargosnowpro;1190416 said:


> The Kage is a few grand more than the OX.. the Horst is a few grand more than the Kage payup I've seen the OX, Kage and Horst all close up but have never used any. The Horst blades look like they are made for hard commercial use while the Kage and OX are definatly on the lighter end of the scale.


I don't know about saying the Kage is on the lighter end of the scale. I'm sure many of them are currently being used for commercial plowing of all sorts. From what I can see the Horst is very heavy and well built. I wouldn't mind owning one for sure. Still like the simplicity of my Snow Wolf, and it's very well built.


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## fargosnowpro (Dec 4, 2010)

WIPensFan;1191205 said:


> I don't know about saying the Kage is on the lighter end of the scale. I'm sure many of them are currently being used for commercial plowing of all sorts. From what I can see the Horst is very heavy and well built. I wouldn't mind owning one for sure. Still like the simplicity of my Snow Wolf, and it's very well built.


I figured I should've clairified myself earlier.. I'm not saying the Kage isn't well built and I'm not saying it wasn't built with commercial snow removal in mind, what I ment was compared to the Horst it is definately built lighter. Some may say the Horst is 'over built,' I personally feel they know the industry well and know what it is going to take for an implement to last for years and years. There are already users reporting cracks in the Kage A frame which only supports my statement. I'm 100% positive if an owner operator used the machine and Kage full time, there would never be an issue as owners tend to use their gear with care. However, if you are in a situation where an employee may be running the equipment the Horst will probably stand up to the use much longer.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

fargosnowpro;1191253 said:


> I figured I should've clairified myself earlier.. I'm not saying the Kage isn't well built and I'm not saying it wasn't built with commercial snow removal in mind, what I ment was compared to the Horst it is definately built lighter. Some may say the Horst is 'over built,' I personally feel they know the industry well and know what it is going to take for an implement to last for years and years. There are already users reporting cracks in the Kage A frame which only supports my statement. I'm 100% positive if an owner operator used the machine and Kage full time, there would never be an issue as owners tend to use their gear with care. However, if you are in a situation where an employee may be running the equipment the Horst will probably stand up to the use much longer.


Yeah, I agree, well said.


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## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

fargosnowpro;1191253 said:


> I figured I should've clairified myself earlier.. I'm not saying the Kage isn't well built and I'm not saying it wasn't built with commercial snow removal in mind, what I ment was compared to the Horst it is definately built lighter. Some may say the Horst is 'over built,' I personally feel they know the industry well and know what it is going to take for an implement to last for years and years. There are already users reporting cracks in the Kage A frame which only supports my statement. I'm 100% positive if an owner operator used the machine and Kage full time, there would never be an issue as owners tend to use their gear with care. However, if you are in a situation where an employee may be running the equipment the Horst will probably stand up to the use much longer.


I have been told (by Kage) that they have reinforced that area and no longer have issues. I would like to hear from someone, with the latest generation, to find out what their experiences are. I really like the Horst concept but I would be just as concerned with how it will hold up to employees as I would the Kage. I have not seen either one in person but I do have the impression that the Kage is not built as heavy as the Horst. IMO, even if that were true, the weekness in the Horst will be it's relative complexity (especially the wing actuators).


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## fargosnowpro (Dec 4, 2010)

DGODGR;1191832 said:


> I have been told (by Kage) that they have reinforced that area and no longer have issues. I would like to hear from someone, with the latest generation, to find out what their experiences are. I really like the Horst concept but I would be just as concerned with how it will hold up to employees as I would the Kage. I have not seen either one in person but I do have the impression that the Kage is not built as heavy as the Horst. IMO, even if that were true,* the weekness in the Horst will be it's relative complexity (especially the wing actuators*).


Agreed. Rotary hydraulic actuators don't sound cheap 

But all this chatter of which is more stout aside, I think the main decision is which implement is more cost effective for the OP to use. If you are able to afford a Horst snow wing that would allow you to do a driveway in one pass, over 80 homes that would really speed the operation up. Using something smaller like a 8-9' Kage or even the 10' OX, you'll be making 2 or even 3 passes (to chase a mowhawk or two), across 80 homes you will effectively double or triple the time you spend there.

Do you have a truck or any other equipment to help you finish the development or will it be just you and the 773? Would you be pulling the snow from the homes to the street, then pushing it to piling areas? Or rowing the street snow to the curb and piling snow from each homes drive at the home?

With 80 homes to do, every minute you spend at an account adds up to almost 1.5 hours to your total time!


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## G&T LAWN (Nov 7, 2009)

I have a 10ft kage on a 95hp kubota tractor. U will have to pry it out of my cold dead hands to get it away from me. Probably have 70hrs on it this season and love it.


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## bobcat310 (Jan 5, 2011)

fargosnowpro;1191882 said:


> Agreed. Rotary hydraulic actuators don't sound cheap
> 
> But all this chatter of which is more stout aside, I think the main decision is which implement is more cost effective for the OP to use. If you are able to afford a Horst snow wing that would allow you to do a driveway in one pass, over 80 homes that would really speed the operation up. Using something smaller like a 8-9' Kage or even the 10' OX, you'll be making 2 or even 3 passes (to chase a mowhawk or two), across 80 homes you will effectively double or triple the time you spend there.
> 
> ...


What I use now is my dad is in a jeep with a 6 foot meyers and I have a 09 F250 with a 7foot westren with the westren wings it takes us about 2 hours with 3 inches of snow.My dad will back drag all the drivways then I will come threw with the bigger plow on the mains.The bobcat is at anthor site it has a 7 foot meyers on it.I like to just put the bobcat at the 80 units with the Kage the only promblem is I do not have 2 speed on my bobcat I don't know if that would be a promblm to get done quick.


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## buddy4781 (Oct 24, 2010)

I don't have a Kage but I do use a pusher that I can backdrag with. Saves me 45 minutes on a 2 1/2 hr job.


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## gd8boltman (Dec 18, 2002)

*163 hrs of commercial on a new this season*

10' Kage and aside from a few broken ram bolts, there have been 0 issues,


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## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

gd8boltman;1216295 said:


> 10' Kage and aside from a few broken ram bolts, there have been 0 issues,


What are the ram bolts?


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## gd8boltman (Dec 18, 2002)

*The bolts that hold the turn rams*

onto the oscillation plate.


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## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

gd8boltman;1216601 said:


> onto the oscillation plate.


I though that is what you meant. I am used to seeing pins in the rod eyes and cylinder ends, not bolts. I looked at their site to confirm that they had bolts instead of pins. I can clearly see the bolts on the skid steer model but I can't see the loader model clearly. IMO it would be much better with pins (hardened). There are two reasons that come to mind. A smooth pin will make a much better surface, against the bushing, than a sharpe thread pattern. The pin should be slightly strunger than the bolt. If the pin and bolt have the same OD the pin should have more strength as it is the same diameter throughout the length of the shaft. The bolt, however, will be a smaller diameter between the threads. Maybe this is common practice for snow plows (using bolts instead of pins) but not for HE. If I were breaking the bolts, like you said you were, I would try to find some pins to replace them with. I would think you could find some that use ag. type pin clips as retainers. It may be much more difficult to find but if you could find some that use snap rings, for retainers, that would be more reliable IMO.


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## fargosnowpro (Dec 4, 2010)

bobcat310;1215439 said:


> What I use now is my dad is in a jeep with a 6 foot meyers and I have a 09 F250 with a 7foot westren with the westren wings it takes us about 2 hours with 3 inches of snow.My dad will back drag all the drivways then I will come threw with the bigger plow on the mains.The bobcat is at anthor site it has a 7 foot meyers on it.I like to just put the bobcat at the 80 units with the Kage the only promblem is *I do not have 2 speed on my bobcat I don't know if that would be a promblm to get done quick.*


Yes, that would be a problem. I would guess your non-2 speed skid runs at 6mph while a 2 speed skid runs around 12 mph, double the speed. You wouldn't notice much of a difference while doing detail work but when moving from account to account is where it would really save time.


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## buddy4781 (Oct 24, 2010)

I have a single speed Bobcat with an 8' pusher that I can back drag and it still saves me about 40% on larger jobs. If i have several small jobs in driving distance I'll still use that Bobcat on those.


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## shooterm (Feb 23, 2010)

Only issue I'd see with Horst is it might limit the equipment you can put it on. Also I dont understand how you can control all the movements with the different skids or tractors. Is it just two auxillary controls along with normal controls? I think Horst could use a short clip in the video on ease of controls to sell them abit better.


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## bobcat310 (Jan 5, 2011)

shooterm;1225720 said:


> Only issue I'd see with Horst is it might limit the equipment you can put it on. Also I dont understand how you can control all the movements with the different skids or tractors. Is it just two auxillary controls along with normal controls? I think Horst could use a short clip in the video on ease of controls to sell them abit better.


I think there is to many hydos to many things that can break on you on a cold night.I like the kage something simple.


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## bubba11 (Dec 28, 2009)

bobcat310;1225845 said:


> I think there is to many hydos to many things that can break on you on a cold night.I like the kage something simple.


the horst only requires one hydraulic output you have to install a switch to run the two hydraulic solinoid valves move the switch to the left your 3rd function moves the left wing move it to the right it moves the right and in the center position it angles the plow left or right yes it is more complex than a kage or snow wolf but no more complex than an angle plow the hydraulic rotary actuators were originaly used to rotate excavator buckets and seem to stand up better than a hydraulic cylinder i looked at all three and ended up buying a snowwing and so far i am happy with the decision with out a doubt any one of the three would greatly outperform a normal plow


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## ff610 (Jan 9, 2009)

I have a 10' Kage newest generation on my Bobcat s650. It has been great and no problems. I have just over 90 hours on it. Anyone that thinks they were not made for the commercial use has obviously never used one. As far as the Horst I would consider buying one for another application, but it is in my opinion heavier then what I need on a skid. I have always tried to reserve opinions on equipment if I've never run it. I would like to see what the Horst feels like if I get the chance.


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