# 10' box on Toolcat?



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Dealer is saying that they do not suggest over an 8 foot box on a new 5600 Toolcat. 

Other than the weight of the box and snow overworking the front suspension, I can't come up with any reason why it can't run a 10 foot box. Machine weighs almost 6K, throw 500 pounds in the bed and you're comparable to an S590/320E/L220 etc skid that can run a 10 foot box with no issues.

Box in question will either be a Kage or Snow Wolf equivalent, or a Metal Pless Liveboxx

Those with experience?


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

How are you getting a S590 to push a 10' is my question. My 650's have issues sometimes. Anyways the tool at struggles with my 8' that we made for it, with 850lb in the bed. I put a blower on it and it only does walks now.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

We have 2 Cat 242D's that pushed 10 foot Boss boxes and are going to go back to the 10 foot Arctic's they had or Liveboxx's, and 2 NH L175's that push a 10 foot Kage and an 8-11 HLA. On a 2-4 inch snow, we've never had issues. Factory tires. If our lots ever had more than 4 inches of snow on them except during say a blizzard, it wouldn't matter how well it did or didn't push, because we wouldn't be the ones pushing them.

My goal for the Toolcat is municipal sidewalks with a broom or blower, then small lots in a downtown setting after walks are done, with either a Kage/angle blade, or Liveboxx. More than likely the Kage/angle blade, as if the municipal account is ever lost, the Toolcat can go right into HOA's with the blade and blower and shine.

As much as I'd like to save the money and buy an RTV1100, it can't go into HOA's and do what a Toolcat can. And it sure can't go into larger lots and do what a Toolcat can. We can still use the Toolcat in the summer for spraying and watering annuals just like the RTV. We don't need any more skids, and I'm confident that it could replace a skid if needed.


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

It will do what you want it to. I have used a 10' plow, a v plow, a hi flow snow blower, and broom on ours.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

beanz27;2018569 said:


> How are you getting a S590 to push a 10' is my question. My 650's have issues sometimes. Anyways the tool at struggles with my 8' that we made for it, with 850lb in the bed. I put a blower on it and it only does walks now.


Weird, I had an 810 on mine and I wish I had gone with an 8611. It was never underpowered or struggled with the 10' blade.

I wouldn't hesitate for a second to run a 10' on one.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark and Herm...I've seen several posts (and a PM) saying that your Toolcat's have been maintenance money pits as well as others saying the same. So far I've only been able to find 2 people that have/are using them for snow that say they would not buy another one out of about 10 people. Everyone else has said they've put a good bit of money into them, but still would buy another one.

Do you feel that it's due to the usage being too much, the machine being under engineered, or operator abuse? Have you looked at the current model, and have an opinion on it? I really really don't want to end up with a 70K money pit in 3-5 years, nor do I want to trade constantly to avoid that. I don't think our machine would see more than 200 hours per season at the absolute most, and that's if we use it in the spring/summer to load a mulch blower and to spray in parks and along highways.

We had a demo unit yesterday...man it's sweet. Had no problem lifting a 330 gallon tote of water with almost 300 gallons in it into a truck. Worked great for spraying in our parks as well even being 5500 pounds, no ruts etc and it was on the skinny R4's. I'd probably go with wide turfs and a set of Snow Wolf or Westside Tire for witner. (it also hasn't rained for 2 weeks) Just a lot more money than any other option, but it can also do more than any other individual choice.


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

I can't speak for Mark, actually no one can , but we operate in the same environment. Road salt takes its toll causing premature wear and tear and the absolute inaccessibility of repairing any and all stuff under the cab. We had a front bearing go out. It was frozen on the shaft. It had to be cut out. Then parts were not available. Do you want me to go on? With four wheel steer it is easy to back into something and take out the rear suspension. Not abuse just an ordinary bump. Want me to go on. Hard to replace hoses. Oh yes and don't forget that the oil cooler sucks in debris and as a result wears out. Other than that stuff and more we love the machine. I'd love to buy another but the maintenance history does not justify it. Just way to much maintenance for a piece of equipment bred and sold as snow equipment. Having said all that, my Toolcat is forsale. I don't think I helped it any.


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## SnowMatic (Sep 21, 2014)

Jarrett,
How do you like your 242D for pushing snow.
Would be interested in hearing if you have had any issues with it and any likes or dislikes on the machine.


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## IDST (Nov 16, 2011)

I love my Toolcat. I bought a new one last year and put an eight foot FastTach on it. Dealer told me same thing.

I plowed with one about five years ago that had a ten foot pusher on it. it handled it pretty good. The only reason i went with the eight is is that two feet is alot for manuvering around stuff and if you catch an edge you can do alot of damage to the front end.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Mark Oomkes;2018731 said:


> Weird, I had an 810 on mine and I wish I had gone with an 8611. It was never underpowered or struggled with the 10' blade.
> 
> I wouldn't hesitate for a second to run a 10' on one.


I was thinking this today, forgot you guys have bare pavement, most of the time I'm on hardpack


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

beanz27;2020433 said:


> I was thinking this today, forgot you guys have bare pavement, most of the time I'm on hardpack


Makes sense then.

What tyres were you using?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

SnowMatic;2019271 said:


> Jarrett,
> How do you like your 242D for pushing snow.
> Would be interested in hearing if you have had any issues with it and any likes or dislikes on the machine.


They're okay. I'd never buy one. But for what we pay on the lease we can't afford not to use them.

No major issues, other than extremely sensitive controls till they warm up. Oh, and forget about seeing anything behind you for about the first 60 feet. You can't see ****, especially if you're short like me.



Herm Witte;2019090 said:


> I can't speak for Mark, actually no one can , but we operate in the same environment. Road salt takes its toll causing premature wear and tear and the absolute inaccessibility of repairing any and all stuff under the cab. We had a front bearing go out. It was frozen on the shaft. It had to be cut out. Then parts were not available. Do you want me to go on? With four wheel steer it is easy to back into something and take out the rear suspension. Not abuse just an ordinary bump. Want me to go on. Hard to replace hoses. Oh yes and don't forget that the oil cooler sucks in debris and as a result wears out. Other than that stuff and more we love the machine. I'd love to buy another but the maintenance history does not justify it. Just way to much maintenance for a piece of equipment bred and sold as snow equipment. Having said all that, my Toolcat is forsale. I don't think I helped it any.


Thank you for your honesty, I appreciate it. I really hope Bobcat has improved as they've come along. Lots of coin to spend to have issues like that.

They just appear to be so handy that I'm having a hard time not putting up with some issues.


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

John_DeereGreen;2020735 said:


> They're okay. I'd never buy one. But for what we pay on the lease we can't afford not to use them.
> 
> No major issues, other than extremely sensitive controls till they warm up. Oh, and forget about seeing anything behind you for about the first 60 feet. You can't see ****, especially if you're short like me.
> 
> ...


If you do buy I encourage you to pedal it after about four winters.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Jarrett, my Toolcat let me down twice, at the end of the run both times. A drive belt and a hose. Other than that, it was very reliable. And very handy. Still kinda wish I had it, but we get by.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

The up side to the Toolcat is my dealer is willing to roll one into their rental fleet as a loaner in case mine happens to go down in a storm. 

Not sure if that's a testament to their reliability, or lack thereof! :laughing::laughing:


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

John_DeereGreen;2020852 said:


> The up side to the Toolcat is my dealer is willing to roll one into their rental fleet as a loaner in case mine happens to go down in a storm.
> 
> Not sure if that's a testament to their reliability, or lack thereof! :laughing::laughing:


That's a plus.


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## SnowMatic (Sep 21, 2014)

John_DeereGreen;2020735 said:


> They're okay. I'd never buy one. But for what we pay on the lease we can't afford not to use them.
> 
> No major issues, other than extremely sensitive controls till they warm up. Oh, and forget about seeing anything behind you for about the first 60 feet. You can't see ****, especially if you're short like me.


You'd never buy one because its cheaper to lease or cause you dont care for the 242D.? Do you find it to be a large enough machine to push snow with the 10ft'r. ?
My sales guy said he thought 10ft would be to big for the 242D, guess it depends to on how heavy of a snow and how far your pushing also.
I take it yours didn't come with the nice rear camera?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

SnowMatic;2020878 said:


> You'd never buy one because its cheaper to lease or cause you dont care for the 242D.? Do you find it to be a large enough machine to push snow with the 10ft'r. ?
> My sales guy said he thought 10ft would be to big for the 242D, guess it depends to on how heavy of a snow and how far your pushing also.
> I take it yours didn't come with the nice rear camera?


When they were building route sheets for the machines, the guys were fighting over who got to run the 4K hour New Hollands and who had to run the Cat's. I feel the same way as they do.

And no, neither unit has the backup camera.

I'm not sure where you're at, but where these machines are we have no problem running the 10 foot boxes. One storm last winter was 12 inches in less than 8 hours, and only then did they complain about some traction issues on longer pushes. Even our 621B wheel loaders (28K pounds) with 14 foot HD Arctic boxes were struggling on a couple longer pushes toward the end. All regular skid tires, we've never run dedicated snow tires.

I'd have no hesitation at all to throw 10 foot boxes on 2k ROC skids just about anywhere if I had dedicated snow tires on them. It's been proven time and again that they can run them without issues.

Our 244J however pushes a 12 foot Arctic like it's not there. Outworks the skids by at least 20%, and burns half the fuel doing it. Pushing in lots, not in HOA's/apartments/small complex lots.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

I like the the idea of a hydraulic wing plow. best of all worlds in my opinion.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

What size wing plow would you put on it Paul?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen;2021668 said:


> What size wing plow would you put on it Paul?


Duh............


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;2021673 said:


> Duh............


That thing blows my mind. Can't believe how big it is. Beautiful piece of engineering.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

John_DeereGreen;2021668 said:


> What size wing plow would you put on it Paul?


I would install the PlowMaxx SS0830-13 The plow is 30 inches tall with 30 inch wings, so closed its a 8 foot box, open the wings to 45 degrees and it makes a 10.5 foot angled box, or windrow 13 feet wide. Come within inches to buildings or obstacles when back dragging leaving a very clean finish. One of the greatest advantages of this kind of plow is that you can angle the plow in such a way that while pushing snow you leave no trails on the cleared side. The operator can pick not only the precise size and angle, to attack any kind of area to be cleared, but also adjust the plow to handle the different amounts or types of snow. The best example is this video of ours on a Kubota 520. Watch it to the very end and see how the operator handles it on a sidewalk.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Mark Oomkes;2020484 said:


> Makes sense then.
> 
> What tyres were you using?


Stock tires, I believe they were the turf tread, I can't remember now, we've had 2, one had turf other had lug.


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## f150skidoo (Dec 14, 2014)

Neige;2021837 said:


> I would install the PlowMaxx SS0830-13 The plow is 30 inches tall with 30 inch wings, so closed its a 8 foot box, open the wings to 45 degrees and it makes a 10.5 foot angled box, or windrow 13 feet wide. Come within inches to buildings or obstacles when back dragging leaving a very clean finish. One of the greatest advantages of this kind of plow is that you can angle the plow in such a way that while pushing snow you leave no trails on the cleared side. The operator can pick not only the precise size and angle, to attack any kind of area to be cleared, but also adjust the plow to handle the different amounts or types of snow. The best example is this video of ours on a Kubota 520. Watch it to the very end and see how the operator handles it on a sidewalk.


You would put that big of a blade on a Tool Cat? the blade weighs 500lbs more then the machines lift capacity.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

f150skidoo;2022230 said:


> You would put that big of a blade on a Tool Cat? the blade weighs 500lbs more then the machines lift capacity.


You are right, I thought the Tool Cat lift capacity was higher, so I checked with the two clients in Quebec and they are running the 0630-11.
I will be more careful in the future.


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## f150skidoo (Dec 14, 2014)

Neige;2022245 said:


> You are right, I thought the Tool Cat lift capacity was higher, so I checked with the two clients in Quebec and they are running the 0630-11.
> I will be more careful in the future.[/QUO
> 
> I just don't want to see a thread in 4 months time with a title of "My ToolCat won't push/lift my 8-13 blade" But a 6-11 blade is still pretty impressive for a ToolCat. Back on topic I don't think the machine would have a hope in hell for pushing a 10' pusher box. A 8' box ya, but guys are running 10" boxes on skids that weigh more then 2000 lbs more then a ToolCat.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

f150skidoo;2022255 said:


> I just don't want to see a thread in 4 months time with a title of "My ToolCat won't push/lift my 8-13 blade" But a 6-11 blade is still pretty impressive for a ToolCat. Back on topic I don't think the machine would have a hope in hell for pushing a 10' pusher box. A 8' box ya, but guys are running 10" boxes on skids that weigh more then 2000 lbs more then a ToolCat.


:laughing: I wouldn't come on and post that.

Paul can you send me a price on that 6-11 blade? Liveedge possible?


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

i just bought a cat 272d xhp, im thinking of putting a metal pless 8-13 live box on it, but it weighs like 2200 lbs. seems like a lot of weight on the front of a machine. however maybe the additional weight is better.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Broncslefty7;2022398 said:


> i just bought a cat 272d xhp, im thinking of putting a metal pless 8-13 live box on it, but it weighs like 2200 lbs. seems like a lot of weight on the front of a machine. however maybe the additional weight is better.


I did my homework on this one and that is a beast of a machine. 110 HP with an operating wt of 9200 lbs. The lift capacity is 3,700 lbs so it would have no issues with the Metal Pless weight of 2,070 lbs. Thumbs Up


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Figured I'd come update this thread with the final outcome of what I decided on.

Got my 063-11 Metal Pless in on Monday morning, ran to the hydraulic shop and got hoses and couplers yesterday and hooked the wiring up, to which I am rather pissed at Bobcat over. First impressions are, well built blade, extremely smooth hydraulics. It's defiantly noticeable when you lift it off the ground. As of now I sure wouldn't want anything bigger than this blade on there.

Ready to get the first snow so we can see how it does. I'm hoping it will replace 2 trucks in tight lots (1/4-3/4 of an acre in a downtown municipal setting). Just from what I've done so far with it, I don't think we will have any issue replacing one totally and the second for the most part. Once the operator gets good with it I think it'll be perfect to replace both.


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## absolutely (Dec 9, 2010)

John_DeereGreen;2067115 said:


> Figured I'd come update this thread with the final outcome of what I decided on.
> 
> Got my 063-11 Metal Pless in on Monday morning, ran to the hydraulic shop and got hoses and couplers yesterday and hooked the wiring up, to which I am rather pissed at Bobcat over. First impressions are, well built blade, extremely smooth hydraulics. It's defiantly noticeable when you lift it off the ground. As of now I sure wouldn't want anything bigger than this blade on there.
> 
> Ready to get the first snow so we can see how it does. I'm hoping it will replace 2 trucks in tight lots (1/4-3/4 of an acre in a downtown municipal setting). Just from what I've done so far with it, I don't think we will have any issue replacing one totally and the second for the most part. Once the operator gets good with it I think it'll be perfect to replace both.


Do you mind saying what the cost was at the Bobcat dealer? I have a 730-12 coming soon and hooking up to a Bobcat plug. $1000+?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen;2067115 said:


> Got my 063-11 Metal Pless in on Monday morning, ran to the hydraulic shop and got hoses and couplers yesterday and hooked the wiring up, *to which I am rather pissed at Bobcat over*





absolutely;2067123 said:


> Do you mind saying what the cost was at the Bobcat dealer? I have a 730-12 coming soon and hooking up to a Bobcat plug. $1000+?


Proprietary wiring from Bobcat sucks. And is a royal PITA.

When I had them wire up my Toolcat using a stump grinder "brain" it cost me right around $1000. It was worth it to not have to hold 2 joysticks at once (stupid design by Blizzard).

Anyways, pics or it didn't happen..................besides, word on the playground is MP isn't delivering anything................


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

absolutely;2067123 said:


> Do you mind saying what the cost was at the Bobcat dealer? I have a 730-12 coming soon and hooking up to a Bobcat plug. $1000+?


Does your machine have a 7 pin or 14 pin plug? 14 pin will be no problem, it's the 7 pin that's an expensive ******* child.

Right now I have a used machine. For two reasons, first being my dealer couldn't get a machine until mid January, and that's if I ordered it in the middle of October or so they're saying. If they don't want my money then I'll keep it. Second reason is this unit is also going to be doing a LOT of sidewalks with a broom/blower and it will also be loading a mulch blower next spring/summer. The used unit is more or less an experiment to make sure it's going to work the way I think it will before we throw down major money.

Anyway, the quote for new as follows (I'll probably trade this one in for next winter season and get a new one if it works out like I'm planning)

G Series with CHA, deluxe road package, hiflow, keyless start, power Bobtach, attachment control, 68 inch bucket, and radio $52940

68 inch angle broom $5814
60 inch SB200 with hiflow motor/attachment control $5440

That quote included the cash discount from Bobcat as well as a bunch of LineX/RhinoLiner under/on the machine to help with rust.

I have the luxury of having multiple addresses to purchase equipment under. This quote was from my local dealer. A dealer that covers another location that we have was about 5K cheaper on the overall package.



Mark Oomkes;2067154 said:


> Proprietary wiring from Bobcat sucks. And is a royal PITA.
> 
> When I had them wire up my Toolcat using a stump grinder "brain" it cost me right around $1000. It was worth it to not have to hold 2 joysticks at once (stupid design by Blizzard).
> 
> Anyways, pics or it didn't happen..................besides, word on the playground is MP isn't delivering anything................


Right now I have it "engineered" to control the wings with 2 toggle switches. Just in case we get snow. Waiting on an aftermarket controller.

I had no idea the wiring was proprietary on the TC until I started doing research after I ordered the Metal Pless. Luckily I found a company in Washington that just finished the final programming of a controller to handle converting the Can-Bus from the Bobcat to a standard 14 pin 12 volt system to run normal non Bobcat proprietary ******** racket wiring. They finished it the same day I called to see if they could help me. I don't have that box yet, but it's a plug and play deal, plug it into the 7 pin connector, stick it to the side of the boom, and plug a normal 14 pin harness into the controller. I didn't NEED the 3 valve control output that they just finished, but decided to go ahead so I'm not limited in the future.

With that controller, we will be able to move it from machine to machine, vs spending the 1500 bucks for a single harness that has to stay with this Toolcat. Plus it was only 600 bucks. And I can run any standard 14 pin attachment with it that has up to 3 solenoids/actuators.

The whole Bobcat proprietary wiring is a bunch of ********, to have a 55K machine that I can't run any 3rd party attachment on is insane.

Not that it makes a whole lot of difference, because the Toolcat is a one of a kind creature, but it would have been nice to know BEFORE we spent a bunch of money on one that this crap was in place. And more importantly that you cant just convert the 14 pin to a 7 pin without frying about 3K worth of electronics on the Toolcat. That 7 pin plug should have a million warning stickers on it telling you this. Luckily I started searching before I just made an adapter and fried it all.

Did I mention that Bobcat's ******** of locking 3rd party electrical controlled attachments off their machines without spending a **** ton more money at a BC dealer sucks? I was somewhat interested in their skids due to dealer being open whenever it's snowing, but this kinda has me rubbed the wrong way with BC.

I have pictures on my phone, but I have no idea how to post them. The driver that brought my blade and another one that was sold through me did say their yard was extremely low in inventory. PM me your cell phone number and I'll text them to you!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I wish you wouldn't hold back on how you feel about Bobcat's proprietary wiring. 

I'm just not getting it.


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## absolutely (Dec 9, 2010)

I have delivery of the bobcat next week with the 7 pin. The salesman said the basically put a computer on the plow. He said roughly 1k. I can't imagine taking your hands of the joysticks every time you want move the blade. For the MP, Paul said they had it in stock and should be here around the 7th. I hope he is correct, not that it's going to snow any time soon.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes;2067198 said:


> I wish you wouldn't hold back on how you feel about Bobcat's proprietary wiring.
> 
> I'm just not getting it.


It frustrates me...



absolutely;2067209 said:


> I have delivery of the bobcat next week with the 7 pin. The salesman said the basically put a computer on the plow. He said roughly 1k. I can't imagine taking your hands of the joysticks every time you want move the blade. For the MP, Paul said they had it in stock and should be here around the 7th. I hope he is correct, not that it's going to snow any time soon.


Craig Ireland 
Skid Steer Genius
360.746.4607

Buy their converter box, then you can run any 14 pin attachment through your 7 pin plug with factory Bobcat controls


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## absolutely (Dec 9, 2010)

John_DeereGreen;2067219 said:


> It frustrates me...
> 
> Craig Ireland
> Skid Steer Genius
> ...


Thanks for the info!


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