# 2017 Ram vs 2017 Silverado



## IaMunicipalworker (Jan 30, 2017)

Wondering of any powertrain issues there might be on the Ram trucks? truck will have a 6.4 with the tradesman package. Always been chevy guys and wondering what issues i should be aware of if council decides to purchase the Ram over the silverado


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## Leland Lawn (Sep 27, 2011)

No powertrain issues here. I have a '14 Ram 2500 diesel with almost 50k miles. It's still going strong with just basic maintenance, tires, and some warranty work (axle seals went out on both sides already and the power steering pump wash changed due to a bearing going bad).

If you have the extra cash get the Aisin transmission and avoid the annoyance of a Dodge trans. Mine isn't bad when loaded and working, but when cruising around empty I wish that it didn't keep shifting into higher gears to save fuel. I'd rather it do when loaded and stay in the torque 
(and yes I know there is a tow button, and it doesn't change the shift points. It seems that only more load on the engine can do that).


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

He was asking about the Hemi. I don't think the PTO option is available on the gasser but I could be wrong. And it's a 2500, so if it's not a cab and chassis then PTO isn't available anyway so no Aisin. 

OP ive had lots of problems with my 2014 with 6.7. Not sure if the gassers have the same issues. I doubt they do.


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## EXR (Apr 1, 2009)

ktfbgb said:


> He was asking about the Hemi. I don't think the PTO option is available on the gasser but I could be wrong. And it's a 2500, so if it's not a cab and chassis then PTO isn't available anyway so no Aisin.
> 
> OP ive had lots of problems with my 2014 with 6.7. Not sure if the gassers have the same issues. I doubt they do.


what issues have you had?
I just bought a 6.4 3500 srw. So far I'm happy. Too new to fault it much. Not a fan of the mirrors and mds. I assume you're having epa issues?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I'm happy with my latest ram 
Over 100k and not one transmission issue

One shouldn't blame the machine
When they abuse et....


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

EXR said:


> what issues have you had?
> I just bought a 6.4 3500 srw. So far I'm happy. Too new to fault it much. Not a fan of the mirrors and mds. I assume you're having epa issues?


Well I have the 6.7 not the gasser. I had terrible trouble with the TPMS the first few months, but that was just an inconvenience. Turbo went out at 40,000 miles, SCR catalyst went out at 42,000 miles. Now transmission is out at 44,000 miles.

Sno will say the transmission is because of abuse. My dealer that's rebuilding it under warranty says it's not abuse, and rather the crappy transmission on the truck. (Had to jab ya Sno lol).

So irreguardless of the transmission, could be abuse from me getting stuck, could be a crappy transmission like the dealer said, ignore that and just the turbo and SCR catalyst going out at such low mileage is unacceptable. Anyone getting a new Diesel needs to delete it right away if you don't live in an emissions testing state. If I didn't have the emissions, the only problem with the truck would have been the TPMS and the tranny.

Since you have a gasser I doubt you will have many issues. They have a different transmission and obviously none of the emissions stuff.


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## CowboysLC_DE (Aug 17, 2013)

I have 25k miles on my 6.4L and all it's needed was regular maintenance so far.


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## bjwlawncare (Sep 2, 2008)

here are mine... 2012 6.2 F 350 35,000 miles

2014 6.4 hemi RAM 20,000

I was always a ford guy but I really like this RAM. Smoother tranny. More power. Nicer interior. Except the oversized middle center area. Hard to seat a guy cupcake. Better ride.

F 350 motor that controls the defroster/ vents went in a blizzard. I never got over it. Only blow out the center and floor. 81 dollar part 8 hours labor. Not sure about the new Ford heavy duty trucks. I haven't driven one yet.


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## Arrowbrook 99 (Mar 16, 2017)

I have never owned a dodge. Drive one for a week while my truck was have a plow put on. Didn't like it. I've had fords my whole life and liked them. But I did just trade my 2014 F 350 lariat 6.7 for a 2016 2500HD 6.0 work truck and love it. I can't say with personal experience about repairs yet but ford seems to make most repairs very labor intensive. Poor design.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Are you just going around posting in every thread relating to trucks that you just traded your Ford for a GM?


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Are you just going around posting in every thread relating to trucks that you just traded your Ford for a GM?


Lol


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## Arrowbrook 99 (Mar 16, 2017)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Are you just going around posting in every thread relating to trucks that you just traded your Ford for a GM?


Yep. As it relates to people's questions. It's really not about ford to GM but high trim level and diesel to work trim and gas. No need to spend all that money. That's all.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Arrowbrook 99 said:


> Yep. As it relates to people's questions. It's really not about ford to GM but high trim level and diesel to work trim and gas. No need to spend all that money. That's all.


Says you. I live out of my truck. It's my office. In the summer I'm in it more than I am on job sites most days. And in winter when plowing for 24+ hours with only pee breaks and snacks, I'll keep my high trim package, Diesel, that makes it more comfortable to be in.


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## Arrowbrook 99 (Mar 16, 2017)

ktfbgb said:


> Says you. I live out of my truck. It's my office. In the summer I'm in it more than I am on job sites most days. And in winter when plowing for 24+ hours with only pee breaks and snacks, I'll keep my high trim package, Diesel, that makes it more comfortable to be in.


Congrats!


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## Arrowbrook 99 (Mar 16, 2017)

ktfbgb said:


> Says you. I live out of my truck. It's my office. In the summer I'm in it more than I am on job sites most days. And in winter when plowing for 24+ hours with only pee breaks and snacks, I'll keep my high trim package, Diesel, that makes it more comfortable to be in.


I'm not looking to offend anyone. If you want to spend the money on a high trim package that's great. I've done it and at this point in my life it's just not for me and just don't want to worry about putting a scratch on such an expensive truck.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Arrowbrook 99 said:


> I'm not looking to offend anyone. If you want to spend the money on a high trim package that's great. I've done it and at this point in my life it's just not for me and just don't want to worry about putting a scratch on such an expensive truck.


Lol ask the guys on here about me "scratching" the truck. It's a work truck, it happens. It makes me a lot of money (when it runs lol). And after a few years it gets traded in for a new one because I wear them out fast. I don't baby my expensive truck as others will attest to. It's just my opinion, I would rather be comfortable, and the Diesel thing is just something I have to have for my main business. Not saying everyone needs to have a fancy truck. There is no shame in it at all, just personal preference. And if I ever find a Foreman worth keeping I plan on buying him a work truck, and you better believe it will be the "work truck" striped down package.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

ktfbgb said:


> Lol


Made me laugh out loud too. It's funny how everybody always wants another guy to spend money "their way". I wanted a Laramie when I got mine, but couldn't find one in my area with a diesel at the time I bought mine. The Big Horn package is pretty nice too though, and I'm happy with it. Mine's a '13, and I'm going to spend the Summer figuring out if I want to use this truck as my second truck with another driver in it next year and buy myself a new one, or just keep driving what I am and buy a cheaper truck for my second driver.


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## Arrowbrook 99 (Mar 16, 2017)

ktfbgb said:


> Lol ask the guys on here about me "scratching" the truck. It's a work truck, it happens. It makes me a lot of money (when it runs lol). And after a few years it gets traded in for a new one because I wear them out fast. I don't baby my expensive truck as others will attest to. It's just my opinion, I would rather be comfortable, and the Diesel thing is just something I have to have for my main business. Not saying everyone needs to have a fancy truck. There is no shame in it at all, just personal preference. And if I ever find a Foreman worth keeping I plan on buying him a work truck, and you better believe it will be the "work truck" striped down package.


Fair enough. Trust me I really liked my lariat, especially the cooled seats.hopefully I'll get back to it someday.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Arrowbrook 99 said:


> Fair enough. Trust me I really liked my lariat, especially the cooled seats.hopefully I'll get back to it someday.


What's it 4 threads that you keep saying the same story. Get over it already. We get the point.


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## Arrowbrook 99 (Mar 16, 2017)

dieselss said:


> What's it 4 threads that you keep saying the same story. Get over it already. We get the point.


Sorry it's bothering you.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

The OP I think works for a municipality. They usually get the bare bones package.


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## Arrowbrook 99 (Mar 16, 2017)

dieselss said:


> What's it 4 threads that you keep saying the same story. Get over it already. We get the point.


I'm new to the site and didn't know you can see where I post things on other threads. I can see how that can be annoying.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I had a King Ranch that burned up. 

We were in Vegas, money wasn't exactly flush on we needed a truck, so I bought a Lariat. I figured it wouldn't be too bad and a Longhorn upgrade just wasn't in the budget (neither was a brand new truck) and a Lariat would be OK.

Next time I replace my truck, it'll be a Longhorn.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I had a King Ranch that burned up.
> 
> We were in Vegas, money wasn't exactly flush on we needed a truck, so I bought a Lariat. I figured it wouldn't be too bad and a Longhorn
> 
> ...


......Thumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> ......Thumbs Up
> 
> View attachment 171657
> 
> ...


I should send you the pics of it lettered up........so there's some new material.

I am surprised you haven't overloaded the Jitterbug as many thymes az ewe've posted dem.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I should send you the pics of it lettered up........so there's some new material.
> 
> I am surprised you haven't overloaded the Jitterbug as many thymes az ewe've posted dem.


Im just paying homage to you...One question...Does your "Mini" Minion like and agree with everything you say??..m


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

........


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Defcon 5 said:


> Im just paying homage to you...One question...Does your "Mini" Minion like and agree with everything you say??..m


Not everything. We have our differences on certain things.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Im just paying homage to you...One question...Does your "Mini" Minion like and agree with everything you say??..m


I don't know, do you?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't know, do you?


Yes...Because I don't want you to have a Tantrum and go silent


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

ummm, once again, lets get back on track please Thumbs Up


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

Arrowbrook 99 said:


> I have never owned a dodge. Drive one for a week while my truck was have a plow put on. Didn't like it. I've had fords my whole life and liked them. But I did just trade my 2014 F 350 lariat 6.7 for a 2016 2500HD 6.0 work truck and love it. I can't say with personal experience about repairs yet but ford seems to make most repairs very labor intensive. Poor design.


You can say that about poor design. I was a Ford guy for 23 yrs having had 3 F250's and the engine work was a nightmare. Now look under a hood of a Chevy----easy as heck to work on. What really sold me was my buddy who runs a shop. Worse case exhaust manifold change on a Ford---8 hrs. Worse case for same job on a Chevy ----- 2hrs. I went through about 5 sets of manifolds on my Fords.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

milkie62 said:


> You can say that about poor design. I was a Ford guy for 23 yrs having had 3 F250's and the engine work was a nightmare. Now look under a hood of a Chevy----easy as heck to work on. What really sold me was my buddy who runs a shop. Worse case exhaust manifold change on a Ford---8 hrs. Worse case for same job on a Chevy ----- 2hrs. I went through about 5 sets of manifolds on my Fords.


You are talking about gas motors obviously... right?


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

Yes the 5.4 gas Triton was junkkkkkkk. Drive down the road 2 different times and had spark plugs blow out the head. Where was the engineering ? My 94 F250 was a nightmare replacing emissions tubing that ran in the back of the engine which was against the firewall.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I meant working on them.

This is not an inch to spare under the hook of a Duramax...


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

A friend which drove my 17 PW and couldn't get over the difference while plowing and working the truck. He said the throttle response was just so much better and the truck never felt overworked. This coming from a owner of a 17 2500 5.7L plow truck more less the twin vehicle. I think the axles might have different too though.

I have looked at the Chevy trucks but there was a definite price disadvantage in going this route. I always feel the suspensions of the Chevys always are softer and the general feel of the truck is just not my cup of tea. As per the diesel Duramax. I would stay clear of them till they get the bugs worked out after the redesign this year. I know of 4 of them which are going into limp mode constantly while plowing.

The risk and reward of the diesel trucks is fading quickly IMO. While EPA of the gas trucks is always on the rise I see the diesels are all about more power and getting by the emission issues. While dependability and longevity of the diesel is a true selling feature. I feel the week link is emissions and will continue to steer me away from running the new stuff of the fear of limp mode.

Another buddy bought two new 2017 2500 and 3500 Duramax diesels this fall and was laughing at my gasser selection. His theory was all about fuel savings and the power the diesels create in comparision to the gas trucks. On the first 6" snow of the season they both went into limp mode because of a computer/emission dilemma... This scenario reminds me of the guy that can drive the golf ball 300+ yds but always three puts.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

DAFFMOBILEWASH said:


> His theory was all about fuel savings and the power the diesels create in comparision to the gas trucks.
> 
> This scenario reminds me of the guy that can drive the golf ball 300+ yds but always three puts.


Power yes... fuel savings... no...

As I and many others have said, tested, and even proven with real world math, with the upfront cost of the diesel upgrade, the cost of fuel being more expensive, along with all the other little things on a diesel, It is almost mathematically impossible to re-coop the cost of a diesel unless you are pushing snow and/or hooked to a 10K plus trailer EVERY day of the year.


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

IMO the EPA killed the diesel ... My pre emission trucks can run more less forever with a little love. Fresh oil, filters and fuel conditioner are the keys to longevity. Issue now lies in keeping the ferrous conversion of metal away from these older trucks.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

DAFFMOBILEWASH said:


> IMO the EPA killed the diesel ... My pre emission trucks can run more less forever with a little love. Fresh oil, filters and fuel conditioner are the keys to longevity. Issue now lies in keeping the ferrous conversion of metal away from these older trucks.


I would agree

And you need sulfur in your diesel... :laugh:


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## EXR (Apr 1, 2009)

Really depends on the situation. I have both a 6.4 and 6.7 both new and almost exact same build spec. Ram offers a no charge Cummins option, Really the of the big reasons I went with another diesel (had all Also resale must be factored in the ownership equation. Diesel far exceeds the value of a gas truck.

So based on my situation my diesel costs me on avg $200 less per month to operate factoring all in. It consistently gets 10L/100km better then the 6.4. 
My biggest complaint on the Cummins even with plow prep is the front end sag, I bottom the mount out often.

Gas trucks are great for maintenance, freq start and stop.

I have two gassers and I wouldn't change it for the world. Diesel for my situation is best due to the high kms I do and heavy towing in the summer.

6.4 needs the 4:10's other then that it's a great motor


Philbilly2 said:


> Power yes... fuel savings... no...
> 
> As I and many others have said, tested, and even proven with real world math, with the upfront cost of the diesel upgrade, the cost of fuel being more expensive, along with all the other little things on a diesel, It is almost mathematically impossible to re-coop the cost of a diesel unless you are pushing snow and/or hooked to a 10K plus trailer EVERY day of the year.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

DAFFMOBILEWASH said:


> IMO the EPA killed the diesel ... My pre emission trucks can run more less forever with a little love. Fresh oil, filters and fuel conditioner are the keys to longevity. Issue now lies in keeping the ferrous conversion of metal away from these older trucks.


I hate this...because I can't make a decision on a 3500 DRW whether to get a gasser or diesel. Driving around town with my 2500, front and rear plows and the 6.4 drives me insane. Driving around town with my personal 2500 with front and rear plows and Cummings is thoroughly enjoyable. I really, really, really got used to max torque between 1500 and 2000 RPM's. I hate waiting to get the V8 revved up to get max torque. I haven't plowed with the 6.4, but with my truck most of the time I am under 2000 RPM's, even pushing and pulling a mountain of snow.


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I hate this...because I can't make a decision on a 3500 DRW whether to get a gasser or diesel.* Driving around town with my 2500, front and rear plows and the 6.4 drives me insane*. Driving around town with my personal 2500 with front and rear plows and Cummings is thoroughly enjoyable. I really, really, really got used to max torque between 1500 and 2000 RPM's. I hate waiting to get the V8 revved up to get max torque. I haven't plowed with the 6.4, but with my truck most of the time I am under 2000 RPM's, even pushing and pulling a mountain of snow.


Mine drives the same with the plows on or off. I think the biggest reason is the gearing of the power wagon. In fact, both blades are still on and we haven't seen measurable snow in weeks. I wonder if one can duplicate the factory PW gearing in a normal 2500/3500 gasser. If so, that's what I would order if looking at the dually trucks. I do plan on pulling the blades today, rather for the fuel savings and tire wear than anything else.

Personally the 3500 is a waste of a truck if buying new. I would consider the 5500 way before the 3500 considering the price point and what one gets in return.

Now pulling the equipment trailer of 12K, one will notice the drawbacks of the 6.4 vs diesel wrt performance and fuel. Although it still pulls well and gets the job done safely. I would bet in the long term comparison vs tier 4 diesels there isn't as much savings as one would think. Unless its traded in once the warrantee is expired. Event to save one would have to pull or work the truck 80% of the time.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

DAFFMOBILEWASH said:


> Personally the 3500 is a waste of a truck if buying new.


I need to check overall height before, but their might be good reason for it.



DAFFMOBILEWASH said:


> I wonder if one can duplicate the factory PW gearing in a normal 2500/3500 gasser.


I actually considered that. Randall found a place for me. 3.73s with 18" wheels is stupid. It's OK with 16's, but not 18's. But as I mentioned someplace else, the 3500 DRW's have 4.10s for the 6.4 and 6.7 which is stupid.



DAFFMOBILEWASH said:


> Now pulling the equipment trailer of 12K, one will notice the drawbacks of the 6.4 vs diesel wrt performance and fuel. Although it still pulls well and gets the job done safely.


It does, I just can't stand it. When I step on the go pedal I am use to going (now that all my 6.0hnoes are gone). Not waiting for the RPM's to build. Maybe it's something I need to get over.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

DAFFMOBILEWASH said:


> Mine drives the same with the plows on or off. I think the biggest reason is the gearing of the power wagon. In fact, both blades are still on and we haven't seen measurable snow in weeks. *I wonder if one can duplicate the factory PW gearing in a normal 2500/3500 gasser.* If so, that's what I would order if looking at the dually trucks. I do plan on pulling the blades today, rather for the fuel savings and tire wear than anything else.
> 
> Personally the 3500 is a waste of a truck if buying new. I would consider the 5500 way before the 3500 considering the price point and what one gets in return.
> 
> Now pulling the equipment trailer of 12K, one will notice the drawbacks of the 6.4 vs diesel wrt performance and fuel. Although it still pulls well and gets the job done safely. I would bet in the long term comparison vs tier 4 diesels there isn't as much savings as one would think. Unless its traded in once the warrantee is expired. Event to save one would have to pull or work the truck 80% of the time.


Don't the new PW's come with 4.10 gears? That's what my truck has. I have no complaints about the 6.4L gas engine with or without the plow on the truck.

NYH1.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> It does, I just can't stand it. When I step on the go pedal I am use to going (now that all my *6.0hnoes* are gone). Not waiting for the RPM's to build. Maybe it's something I need to get over.


Are you talking about the 6.0L Chevy gassers or the 6.0L Ford Power Stroke?

NYH1.


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Its hard to get over the power and tourque band of the Cummins engines and low rpm's. Owned a 2002 f350 with the 7.3l for about a month because I hated the powerband. The best way to justify the wait to build power is the lack of noise at the drive thru speaker.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

NYH1 said:


> Are you talking about the 6.0L Chevy gassers or the 6.0L Ford Power Stroke?
> 
> NYH1.


One of those is reliable and the other is a flaming piece of crap...


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Mark I dont think you should get over it. My opinion is this. I want the diesel because I really do use it hard, and it makes using it hard enjoyable. When the emissions are working of course. Will the gasser get the job done? Yep. And when I’m finally able to buy a company truck for my foreman etc., it will be a stripped down HD gasser. For the truck I use personally for work, its gonna be the diesel. Sometimes just because I can, is better than trying to justify the cost vs benefit lol.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Philbilly2 said:


> Power yes... fuel savings... no...
> 
> As I and many others have said, tested, and even proven with real world math, with the upfront cost of the diesel upgrade, the cost of fuel being more expensive, along with all the other little things on a diesel, It is almost mathematically impossible to re-coop the cost of a diesel unless you are pushing snow and/or hooked to a 10K plus trailer EVERY day of the year.


I can't justify diesel in pickups for pushing snow...and although i agree with you in "most cases", 10k plus pulling every day justifies it, but in my case it doesn't.. between the low miles we put on our trucks and the local terrain being pretty flat, I couldn't get the 8-9k difference in initial cost to pencil out in 8-10 yrs...which is the pattern we seem to be on when buying new trucks. Now I will say on our f450 w/v10, It's looking to be a close call, but we are only 3yrs in on that truck...at the 8-10 yr mark, when I'll most likely trade it off, if it's really that close....I may go diesel at that point, just because..?.?..but with the way things are with emissions, and watching the few around me that run diesels, the reliability of our gas motors honestly seems better...?.?..

FWIW, most large companies I see, with a fleet of hd pickups, buys all gassers. Even the trucks that are pulling 10k lb enclosed/equip trailers fairly often.

Oh and you forgot the best reason that justifies getting a diesel pickup.....oh, never mind..I've been pushing the envelope enough lately



ktfbgb said:


> Sometimes just because I can, is better than trying to justify the cost vs benefit lol.


Now that's a respectable answer for buying a diesel, when you know damn well it makes more financial sense to actually run a gas truck.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ktfbgb said:


> Mark I dont think you should get over it. My opinion is this. I want the diesel because I really do use it hard, and it makes using it hard enjoyable. When the emissions are working of course. Will the gasser get the job done? Yep. And when I'm finally able to buy a company truck for my foreman etc., it will be a stripped down HD gasser. For the truck I use personally for work, its gonna be the diesel. Sometimes just because I can, is better than trying to justify the cost vs benefit lol.


This would be a crew truck...3500 DRW with a dump box. Hauling a 24' enclosed most of the time, not much weight in the box.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

My personal truck will always be a diesel. No doubt aboot that. I'd shoot myself if I had to drive a 6.4 with 3.73s all the time.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> This would be a crew truck...3500 DRW with a dump box. Hauling a 24' enclosed most of the time, not much weight in the box.


Meh. If there isnt much weight, and its for the crew, then my choice might be the gasser. Who cares if they cant stand it. You are paying them to drive it.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I know, but it drives me nuts when I drive it. Lol

I need to put some numbers together.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> My personal truck will always be a diesel. No doubt aboot that. I'd shoot myself if I had to drive a 6.4 with 3.73s all the time.


We have 373 in our SBEC SRW f350 6.2 gas (18in wheels)...I like the truck but it definitely leaves some to be desired on the occasions it pulls one of our skid steers or driving it with no weight/load...should've went with the lower gear & air bags instead of timbrens. But I will say it's an awesome truck imo when equipped with one of our WO's and a vbox w/ a couple thousand lbs of salt.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

ktfbgb said:


> Mark I dont think you should get over it. My opinion is this. I want the diesel because I really do use it hard, and it makes using it hard enjoyable. When the emissions are working of course. Will the gasser get the job done? Yep. And when I'm finally able to buy a company truck for my foreman etc., it will be a stripped down HD gasser. For the truck I use personally for work, its gonna be the diesel. Sometimes just because I can, is better than trying to justify the cost vs benefit lol.


Lol... this sounds very fimilar.


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Here is my recipe for getting around the debate gas vs diesel.

It was a fluke I ended up with the Power Wagons. I had spent months trying to find the perfect truck, blending options vs price. Here in Canada the diesel truck of choice was pushing the 70k mark, that was after rebates. Gassers weren't much on the radar since I have always had a diesel truck as a personal driver.

Then one night, a power Wagon was delivered that AM I arrived and fell in love with the truck but hated the thought it wasn't available in a diesel. After crunching numbers the 49k out the door pricing sealed the deal ntm the looks and locking differentials. I decided to lease the truck .. If I hated the gas I just had to live with it for a few years.

The truck is fun to drive and gets lots of attention. Yep its hard on fuel averaging just 9 mpg while plowing and driving around for the past two months. Considering the cold, my overuse of remote start and the weight of the blades hanging front and rear I'm not upset over the numbers.

My towing and work portion of buisines would be fulfilled with my older 06 2500 diesel Ram. This way my personal driver is not a true work truck. Its always clean and looks good for new clients. The new method of thinking is perfect. In fact I opted to sell the 06 recently and replace it with a 07 F650 roll off which had a plow and salter too. Best part is the 5.9L Cummins drive line and Allision trans in the new truck.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I did a write up on this once, but have no idea what thread...

My recipe is from running gas and diesel GM 1 ton vans. They are all loaded very similar and set up the same down to the same ladder racks and tires even. You will have a rather tough time getting a much closer mpg comparison. 

I have them in 6.0, 4.8, and 6.6 varieties.

I have a fuelman fleet card that gives the cost per mile report every fill up based on a fuel only basis. So this automagically debunks the diesel to gas cost basis for me. Same vans, same roads, MPG similar, but diesel costs more per gallon... thus making them fractionally different in fuel cost operation. Now, add DEF fluid, 2.5 gallon oil changes, fuel filter changes, fuel additive in cold weather, 2 batteries, etc... 

Unless one of the vans is hooked to a wagon, the numbers are all almost the same. When pulling, the gas vans take a dive. But we don't pull every day, so it is a no brainer for my operation 

Now, to the kids who you run it no at the local tavern who don't use real math and figure cost of operations on their trucks on hopes, dreams, just want to have a diesel... it is not possible to reason with them, and you just have to let the get their "30 mpg" on a 1 ton... yeah ok...

As I said in my previous write up. I drive a diesel pickup for my personal truck. Why? Do I tow? Very seldom. Do I haul a lot? Nope, just dogs and cases of beer. Then why have a diesel? Because I wanted one and I just felt like wasting money...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

EXR said:


> Ram offers a no charge Cummins option


 Please explain this...

I have never heard of any of the big 3 just "no charging" for an $8 to $10k option...

What is the catch?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> I did a write up on this once, but have no idea what thread...
> 
> My recipe is from running gas and diesel GM 1 ton vans. They are all loaded very similar and set up the same down to the same ladder racks and tires even. You will have a rather tough time getting a much closer mpg comparison.
> 
> ...


Why would you do something reasonable and bring math into the argument??


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> Please explain this...
> 
> I have never heard of any of the big 3 just "no charging" for an $8 to $10k option...
> 
> What is the catch?


I have heard radio commercials claiming "no charge Cummins" for the upgrade. Couldn't tell you any more detail than that, but it does exist


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> I have heard radio commercials claiming "no charge Cummins" for the upgrade. Couldn't tell you any more detail than that, but it does exist


I bet they don't charge you for the Cummings, but you have to get the $10k Transmission upgrade to get the Cummings for free...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Here you go...



Philbilly2 said:


> Hence the reason I went gas this time.
> 
> This DEF stuff is killing the truck name. And if you cant take it off for 100K and keep your warranty so you can go to ANY dealer ANY time... no thanks.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, my personal truck will be a diesel... you know why... just because I can and because I want to. I get shatty mileage, I don't haul much more than dog boxes and cases of beer in the bed, rarely tow with it, I just like wasting money... there, someone finally said it! :terribletowel:





Philbilly2 said:


> So you think that you save the 8 to 10K in fuel to offset the cost of a diesel? Even with the higher cost of fuel and higher cost of maintenance?
> 
> I don't... I used to... I don't anymore. Once I actually did real numbers not just I filled up twice and he filled up 4 times math.
> 
> ...


https://www.plowsite.com/threads/he...ice-for-buying-new-truck.171304/#post-2224028


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## giggity (Oct 25, 2013)

Ive owned all 3 brands over the years, we switched to Dodges in 2003 and havent looked back since, we currently have a 2003 Cummins with 225,000 miles and still on its original trans and the truck has been plowing since day 1, a 2002 3500 cab and chassis, a 2005 2500 5.7, 2012 2500 and my personal truck a 2016 Ram 1500.. The lack of repairs on the rams are a noticeable difference from the Fords and Chevys, we drive the piss out of the trucks and they just dont break, aside from normal maintenance and the normal dodge issues they have been great trucks, we are abnormally anal about maintenance which helps with any brand. Comparing the new rams and the chevys, the fit and finish especially with the interiors is much much better on the rams, the chevys look and feel cheap and from my personal experiences as well as others they just dont hold up, maybe as a grocery getter, but as a work truck I would never buy a chevy. I know of atleast a dozen people/companies who have all jumped ship with the chevys and either bought Ram or Ford becuase of all the issues with their trucks. Any GM vehicle in my opinion have become disposable vehicles, they are built cheap and it shows. $60,000 + for a truck and it has the same interior as a Chevy Malibu?? Really?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

giggity said:


> Ive owned all 3 brands over the years, we switched to Dodges in 2003 and havent looked back since, we currently have a 2003 Cummins with 225,000 miles and still on its original trans and the truck has been plowing since day 1, a 2002 3500 cab and chassis, a 2005 2500 5.7, and my personal truck a 2016 Ram 1500.. The lack of repairs on the rams are a noticeable difference from the Fords and Chevys, we drive the piss out of the trucks and they just dont break, aside from normal maintenance and the normal dodge issues they have been great trucks, we are abnormally anal about maintenance which helps with any brand. Comparing the new rams and the chevys, the fit and finish especially with the interiors is much much better on the rams, the chevys look and feel cheap and from my personal experiences as well as others they just dont hold up, maybe as a grocery getter, but as a work truck I would never buy a chevy. I know of atleast a dozen people/companies who have all jumped ship with the chevys and either bought Ram or Ford becuase of all the issues with their trucks. Any GM vehicle in my opinion have become disposable vehicles, they are built cheap and it shows. $60,000 + for a truck and it has the same interior as a Chevy Malibu?? Really?


Never been in a Denali have you?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> I have heard radio commercials claiming "no charge Cummins" for the upgrade. Couldn't tell you any more detail than that, but it does exist


It is a Canadian only rebate in lieu of certain finance options from what I can find on the interweb...


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## giggity (Oct 25, 2013)

Philbilly2 said:


> Never been in a Denali have you?


Shouldnt have to buy a Denali to get a decent interior. Ever been in a Limited Ram? Theres no Comparison between the 2


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

giggity said:


> Ive owned all 3 brands over the years, we switched to Dodges in 2003 and havent looked back since, we currently have a 2003 Cummins with 225,000 miles and still on its original trans and the truck has been plowing since day 1, a 2002 3500 cab and chassis, a 2005 2500 5.7, 2012 2500 and my personal truck a 2016 Ram 1500.. The lack of repairs on the rams are a noticeable difference from the Fords and Chevys, we drive the piss out of the trucks and they just dont break, aside from normal maintenance and the normal dodge issues they have been great trucks, we are abnormally anal about maintenance which helps with any brand. Comparing the new rams and the chevys, the fit and finish especially with the interiors is much much better on the rams, the chevys look and feel cheap and from my personal experiences as well as others they just dont hold up, maybe as a grocery getter, but as a work truck I would never buy a chevy. I know of atleast a dozen people/companies who have all jumped ship with the chevys and either bought Ram or Ford becuase of all the issues with their trucks. Any GM vehicle in my opinion have become disposable vehicles, they are built cheap and it shows. $60,000 + for a truck and it has the same interior as a Chevy Malibu?? Really?


An 03 Cummins with an automatic and 225000 miles plowing from day one, with no trans rebuild is a freak of nature. You better go play the powerball with numbers out of that truck's VIN.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> It is a Canadian only rebate in lieu of certain finance options from what I can find on the interweb...


I tried to find what dealer out here offers it, but I couldn't. I assume it's no longer offered.

One dodge dealer offers a buy one get one offer on their trucks...


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## giggity (Oct 25, 2013)

John_DeereGreen said:


> An 03 Cummins with an automatic and 225000 miles plowing from day one, with no trans rebuild is a freak of nature. You better go play the powerball with numbers out of that truck's VIN.


Im as shocked as you are believe me, it was my personal truck to start and besides plowing, it towed a 4 place enclosed snowmobile trailer 1000 miles every other weekend for years, towed a 35 ft formula boat from the everglades in Florida to Chicago with a 175,000 miles on it, and has towed numerous other Skid Steers etc. throughout the years, and its had a Banks Programmer on it.. Knock on wood still going strong.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JMHConstruction said:


> I tried to find what dealer out here offers it, but I couldn't. I assume it's no longer offered.
> 
> One dodge dealer offers a buy one get one offer on their trucks...


I guess it's only the half ton dodge that gets the BOGO


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

giggity said:


> Shouldnt have to buy a Denali to get a decent interior. Ever been in a Limited Ram? Theres no Comparison between the 2


You don't have to get a Denali... you could het a High Country... 

And... Sure... Thumbs Up


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

giggity said:


> Im as shocked as you are believe me, it was my personal truck to start and besides plowing, it towed a 4 place enclosed snowmobile trailer 1000 miles every other weekend for years, towed a 35 ft formula boat from the everglades in Florida to Chicago with a 175,000 miles on it, and has towed numerous other Skid Steers etc. throughout the years, and its had a Banks Programmer on it.. Knock on wood still going strong.


You're one lucky individual. 


JMHConstruction said:


> I guess it's only the half ton dodge that gets the BOGO
> View attachment 176833


That's how chitty they are...have to give you one for free to get you to buy the first. That way you have a backup when one breaks.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> You don't have to get a Denali... you could het a High Country...
> 
> And... Sure... Thumbs Up


A family member has a '17 high country. I've never been more jealous of something in my life. Beautiful truck.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

I drive a 6.7 cummins and love it but if I was building a fleet of plow trucks they would be GM 2500's with 6.0L. They are tough, reliable, and cheap to own. The 2000 I just sold with a bad tranny had 180k that were all lawn or snow related and the only repairs ever made other than typical maintenance were a tie rod end that broke plowing and the typical LS exhaust manifold bolts breaking. If the body has in better shape I would have replaced the tranny.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

IMO the GMs across all the trim packages are cleaner and more refined than Dodge.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

giggity said:


> Shouldnt have to buy a Denali to get a decent interior. Ever been in a Limited Ram? Theres no Comparison between the 2


I completely agree. Dodge has been behind the curve forever to GM & Furd on fit and finish of their interiors.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

plow4beer said:


> I completely agree. Dodge has been behind the curve forever to GM & Furd on fit and finish of their interiors.


I have a 2014 Ram with the 6.7. Its the SLT but with the biggest touch screen they make and some other upgrades. And while I really like the truck, Ive never had this fancy of a truck, the Ford Interior is much nicer. I wouldn't know about GM, I wont get in one.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> I have a 2014 Ram with the 6.7. Its the SLT but with the biggest touch screen they make and some other upgrades. And while I really like the truck, Ive never had this fancy of a truck, the Ford Interior is much nicer. I wouldn't know about GM, I wont get in one.


Doesn't matter...they all suck in their own special ways


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

plow4beer said:


> Doesn't matter...they all suck in their own special ways


Agreed.


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## MXZ1983 (Mar 8, 2015)

Drive the one that fits best and choose what you like. Choosing between the big 3 is like choosing between red, green, orange, yellow, and blue tractors. What you prefer, service, and parts availability is what matters. Everything is really built quite "similar" if you take a step back and look.


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## MXZ1983 (Mar 8, 2015)

I guess I should add that I'm not partial to any of them. Actually have each of the big 3 in the driveway now. Each has pros and cons.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

MXZ1983 said:


> I guess I should add that I'm not partial to any of them. Actually have each of the big 3 in the driveway now. Each has pros and cons.


They're all going to break when you need them. All dealers suck. All parts are outrageous. And every single brand is overpriced.

Pick what you like the looks of the best is pretty much it anymore.


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Lets just face it.. We would all be running pre emission trucks if they weren't all used up and rusted out. To me the life expectancy of a new truck is about three years in the snow industry before the effects of salt and oxygen take over. No matter how well you try to preserve the iron of choice its going to be a loosing battle.

I own all three brands currently. My purchase point is solely dictated by the power plant of each vehicle wrt dependability of each era of time and build configurations.


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## pipelayer (Oct 6, 2013)

ill put my .02 in. Ive yet to run anything HD, (ie.4500,5500)
however, my latest truck (14 ram 2500 6.4 big horn) has been awesome. tows my skid, with trailer is around 12-13k no issue, holds up well to my XV2 and poly caster, not to mention was significantly less expensive than the silverado counterpart.

ive owned GM, ford, dodge, gas and diesels from 01-07. more than one of each at this point, all i can say is the chassis of any of the newer trucks is night and day to anything of that era. they ride, stop, handle a plow, or a trailer better than anything of the previous decade. i am a huge GM fan, i like the 6.0 and the 6.6, the powertrain they offer is nothing short of impressive, however, the extra cost of the truck at the end of the day doesn't seem to add up to what the ram does for me. i like the uconnect in my truck, i like the suspension, frame and just about everything about my truck, less fuel mileage. that being said i will be upgrading to the 5500 come spring, as my business grows, it will be a 6.7 truck, i think ram has nailed these as well, definitely giving ford a run for their money in the HD market. GM seems to come up short in this category. through and through from a business standpoint, with the cost of trucks in this day and age it makes no sense to keep a truck 10+ years anymore. it makes more sense to buy it, let it pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time, and trade up in 3/5 years while there is some value left in the truck to offset the cost of a new one., dollar for dollar the ram would be the choice i would go with again. to add one last thing, you can build a ram differently than a GM or ford. you can load out an SLT or big horn with the larger screen, leather and other amenities without breaking into a longhorn or limited, and having a comparable price tag to a lariat/ platinum ford or LTZ/denali..


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