# Broken fence by plowing what to do???



## meathead1134 (Nov 12, 2004)

First of all let me say that I didn't break the fence it's my fence, My wife told me that our fence was broken and if I had noticed I said no. So I go out and take a look at it an noticed that the house behind me was plowed and the guy pushed the snow up against my wooden fence and broke it it 3 sections. So I go over there its a 3 family. I ringed the door bell and asked to speak with the property owner. The lady on 3rd floor comes down and says the owner dosen't live here. I said ok can you please give me his contact info. She says I don't know who the landlord is?? me excuse me you don't know who is the landlord, her my daughter deals with them. Ok So I try second floor and tell them the story they say sorry cannot help you. I'm out walking my dog in my yard and noticed that somebody else was out side. I tell them the story he says I cannot give you their information but I'll tell him ARRRR yeah right. So I called police and they come down, I talked to them and they say its not from vandalism and there is nothing we can do. I asked for a report to be taken and the cop said no. ARRRRRRRRRR I got the owners information from city hall, all it gives me is the owners name and the address of the property. So I send a registered letter and it gets returned to me. I do not know what to do. Can somebody help me??


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## oldmankent (Mar 2, 2001)

Flag down the guy plowing the lot next time he shows up.


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## bigjoe871 (Feb 2, 2005)

It will take a while but...

Find out where they send the rent. If its a mailing address then send a letter. If someone picks it up then ask one of the tenants to give in your sealed envelope with their rent. 

I have a couple of rental units that are too far away for me to get to myself and I sub them out. If this was my property i would definitely want to know that someone damaged the neighbors property and make good on it.

Good Luck and dont give up, it's usually a matter of the owner not knowing about it.


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## Joe D (Oct 2, 2005)

Go to the town hall and find out the property owners name and send them a letter.


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## Hmebuildr (Jan 16, 2002)

Contact your insurance company file a claim for the damage and have them track down the owner.


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

Hmebuildr said:


> Contact your insurance company file a claim for the damage and have them track down the owner.


That would be great but there are at least 2 things wrong with that...

1. He will still have to pay a deductable (assuming he has one) and it may not cover the cost of replacing a couple of posts.

2. Most insurance companies won't pursue the vandal with a claim this small. They'll just cut a check for whatever the amount minus the deductable and be done with it.

Waiting for the plow guy to come back may not be a good idea either. All he has to say is "I wasn't the plow guy when that happened." and now he's off the hook.

I would do whatever it takes to contact the owner of the property and tell him you need the snowplowers information. Tell him you want the plow guy to do your property or something since your plow is broke down.


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## Chris-R (Jul 9, 2005)

You didn't say how much this would cost to fix. It it's under $ 2,000 and assuming the property is in Massachusetts (as per your info), you can file a small claim against the property owner and plow operator. You already have the name and address of the property owner. Now you just have to get the name and address of the plow contractor. Do what you have to do to get his name and address. Some previous suggestions are helpful. After that, if nobody fixes your fence in about a week or so, file a claim against both of them in small claims court. Go to the district court closest to you and ask someone in the clerk's office what to do. Typically, they are very helpful. The cost of filing the claim is really low like $ 20. If the defendants don't show up to court, you get a judgement in your favor through default. If they come, you better have pictures along with an estimate from a fence company for the amount you are asking for. Small claims court is designed for small cases without lawyers so you shouldn't need a lawyer. Both sides have the right to bring a lawyer if they want but lawyers are seldom seen in small claims court.


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## VAhighwayman (Dec 7, 2005)

meathead1134 said:


> First of all let me say that I didn't break the fence it's my fence, My wife told me that our fence was broken and if I had noticed I said no. So I go out and take a look at it an noticed that the house behind me was plowed and the guy pushed the snow up against my wooden fence and broke it it 3 sections. So I go over there its a 3 family. I ringed the door bell and asked to speak with the property owner. The lady on 3rd floor comes down and says the owner dosen't live here. I said ok can you please give me his contact info. She says I don't know who the landlord is?? me excuse me you don't know who is the landlord, her my daughter deals with them. Ok So I try second floor and tell them the story they say sorry cannot help you. I'm out walking my dog in my yard and noticed that somebody else was out side. I tell them the story he says I cannot give you their information but I'll tell him ARRRR yeah right. So I called police and they come down, I talked to them and they say its not from vandalism and there is nothing we can do. I asked for a report to be taken and the cop said no. ARRRRRRRRRR I got the owners information from city hall, all it gives me is the owners name and the address of the property. So I send a registered letter and it gets returned to me. I do not know what to do. Can somebody help me??


 Granted.. the property owner should be notified..but..it's the guy who pushed the snow against it...he's the one that needs to fix or replace those sections of fence because he's the one who put the snow there..not the land owner..whoever he hired to push snow should have insurance..but for what i've read what you've been thru so far..the land owner hired a fly by night lowballer and you'll never see that guy again...good luck


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## lawnmedic (Jan 9, 2004)

I don't know about in your area,but in Ohio all counties have a web site where property tax records are shown. You can obtain the address where the tax bill is sent from those records.


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## Raydon (Nov 14, 2003)

Meathead, I would go over and take pictures right away while it's daylight from the other side showing the reason the fence was damaged. Maybe if you told the cops the plow did the damage rather than the snow against it, it may become a traffic problem they would deal with. It's property damage caused by a motor vehicle any way you slice it. Good Luck


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## mmwb (Jan 12, 2005)

As Raydon said, get pics now, from both sides of the fence. As stated the county will have a record of who owns the property so they can send a tax notice to them.


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## DugHD (Nov 1, 2005)

Wait for the next snow storm and bring it to the attention of the plow guy. If he is remorseful and says he'll pay for damages your all set. If he says pound sand , get his plate number then pound the **** out of him .


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

DugHD said:


> If he says pound sand , get his plate number then pound the **** out of him .


Oh yea, that's smart

Don't be like this. It's comments like that which give honest and hard working plowers like me a bad name. What makes you think that two wrongs make a right?? I just don't get it. That's what the police and the courts system is for. All you need to do is beat the snot out of someone and *the person you beat up could be the smart one to go to the cops*. Then the least of your worries will be a broken fence. Come on people...

I don't know if it's the lack of snow or what. SOme of the responses here have been downright awful.


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## DugHD (Nov 1, 2005)

Well, I said if the guy tells you to pound sand he wont take responsability.


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

DugHD said:


> Well, I said if the guy tells you to pound sand he wont take responsability.


Than all you have to do is take down the license plate number, file a police report, and let the cops do their job. If the cops have reason to believe he caused the damage they will hand the case over to the states attorney. The states attorney can / will investigate the story and decide wether charges can be filed for destruction of private property.

Another route that can be taken is to get ahold of the property owner and ask him for proof of payment for plowing snow on the day you suspect the damage to have been done. With that information you can take him to small claims court.

Sure, it's a lot of leg work but it's still the right way to go about getting it taken care of.

Seriously Dug, do you really think beating the crud out of someone is going to fix his fence? What good can possibly come out of it? Best case senario is he will think twice before he pushes snow against a fence. Worst case is you go to jail for assault. Dug, you do whatever makes you feel good. I'll just sit back and laugh when your actions comes back to haunt you.


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## DugHD (Nov 1, 2005)

yup ok, i shouldnt have given him that advice. 
But if it was my fence , thats absolutely what i'd do.


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## meathead1134 (Nov 12, 2004)

Joe D said:


> Go to the town hall and find out the property owners name and send them a letter.


I did go to town hall and I have the owners name but they do not live there as orgionally stated in my first post I sent a registerd letter and it came back to us. Yes I have pictures from both sides of the fence. The police refuse to to take a report.

"Find out where they send the rent"

tennants are playing dumb they won't give me the owners info see orgional post

"Now you just have to get the name and address of the plow contractor"

easier said than done the tennants are playing dumb.

"Wait for the next snow storm and bring it to the attention of the plow guy"

I am a plow guy and I work full time so I don't have time to babysit until he shows up.

"You can obtain the address where the tax bill is sent from those records"
. 
I will try this out hopefully tomorrow.


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

The police MUST file a report. It's called *destruction of private property *or in a lesser extent *vandalism*, both of which are illegal acts. There's no denying the fact your property is damaged / destroyed. I think the cop is just being lazy. I'd bet if you call and ask for a supervisor to come out to the property he will look into it for you. If not than go up the chain one higher to the chief of police. If that fails then write a letter to your mayor or local town governing body. If you want you can appeal to your town council by attending a meeting and voice your issue there.

In short, the police MUST file a report if you ask them to. Now, it's up to them if they decide to pursue the report or bury it in a pile of red tape. They are required to take the report.


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

And yet another reason the police must file a report... *Leaving the scene of an accident*. Even though no one was hurt there was still the destruction of private property with a motor vehicle.


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## pbeering (Jan 13, 2003)

The police do not have to file a report at all. This is clearly a minor civil matter (assuming you ignore the "revenge" advice above, which could well change the view of the police). Most departments will (correctly) walk away from it. Going to the town council and ranting will serve no end other than making you look foolish. Spending time and energy to pursue a legal action is also foolish. Write it off and either repair the fence, or remove it.

Not nice that the guy hurt it and split, but not the first time this has happened, and not likely to be the last. 

Since you plow snow, why do you have a fence where a knucklehead can push snow into it??????


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## PPP (Jan 5, 2005)

Some great ideas from everyone here. Unfortunately there is no easy solution to the problem. The propery owner is by no means responsible. Just reverse the roles. If one of your guys was plowing an account and someone (not the client that you plowed for but a property abuter) came up to you as the usiness owner and said your company damaged my fence would you believe them? How would you defend yourself as the contract plower? I am a property owner and had a similar situation last year. During a storm that droped over 24 inches I could not get to all the houses in a timely manner. So the tenants flagged down some guy in the street with a plow and had him attempt to plow the lot before I arrived and you guessed it. He took out three sections of the neighbors fencing then took off never to be seen again. Before I could even get to the house my phone was ringing from the neighbor who knew it wasn't me who had plowed. I did not hire him, the tenants did before I could get there. No one knew who this guy was and the truck never came back to the neighborhood. So who was responsible?? The unkown plow guy. I assumed no responsibility nor should I have as the property owner. I always plow away from the fence. No one got the plate number and there was no name on the truck. Unfortunately this leaves you as we call it SOL. Unless your neighbor splits the bill with you on the damage to the fence. In my case I did to keep on the good side of my neighbors for I grew up in that neighborhood. But as the property owner they have no responsibility unless they physically caused the damage. This is no diferent than if someone hit your parked car in the street and took off. Would the town be responsible for the damage to your car because they own the street. You could try to reason with the property owner but they are not obligated to offer you anything. Judging from what I read they sound like an absentee landlord. I know the neighbors to all my houses on a first name basis. I want to be the first one to know if there is a problem with one of my properties. Good Luck for you are indeed going to need it. Sorry for the long post.


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

pbeering, I got all the above posted information from several police sources. The first is from my friend Aaron who is on the Griffith, IN police Department. The second is from an Indianapolis police officer, Tim Motsinger. It is not a "minor civil matter". The police are here to help in these matters, minor or not. There could potentially be a thousand dollars of damage to the fence.

Do you mean to tell me that a minor traffic accident isn't a "minor civil matter" if only some paint was traded? How about a minor fist fight? Perhaps a child stealing a piece of candy from a convenience store? Sure, that is a minor civil matter that could probably be easily adressed by calling the parents of the kid and he'll get grounded or something.

Think about it... A "minor civil matter"? Not likely.


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

Great post PPP. You are absolutely right abou tthe property owner not being responsible. However, he could at least be a nice guy and offer up the info on the plow contractor he hired. As was said earlier, it seems the poster is having a hard time locating this guy. Hopefully he will find out the owner's name and addy soon.


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## johntwist (Feb 10, 2004)

Wow, this is one of the better threads in a while.

What to do, what to do..........well I guess since you can't shoot him I'd have to agree with Plowmeister that you can't beat the cork out of him either. I don't know about you, but I've never been big on wanting to give any money to someone who tuned me up, whether I deserved it or not. And, the key here, in the end is........moneypayup .

You already know that the owner of the property is public information and as the owner is responsible for the actions of his contractors. Once he is served, he'll throw the guy in the plow truck under the bus in about two seconds when he realizes you're after his a$$. But, what hasn't been mentioned is the lawyer you're going to need and what you'll end up paying him. Then, there's the whole idea of you proving the fence hasn't been broken for years, because you know they'll say, "It was like that before, been broken for years."

Now, you know the truth, but the only thing that counts here is what you can prove. _What you can prove._ This is a good counter-point to those threads where guys swear that your cocoanuts will be systematically removed by the State if you dare not have insurance up to your gills in case you get sued. Sueing someone sucks, trust me. It's expensive, time consuming, and even if you win you'll be lucky to break even, never mind collect for attorney's fees and court costs.

So, give a try if you want. You might get lucky and the guy might make good on it just to make you go away. If not, call up some of your buddies and get them over the house on a nice Saturday in June. Buy a few cases of beer, order a bunch of pizza or chinese food for the boys, and fix the damned thing. Pull it up plumb, replace a few pickets or whatever. That'll be a hell of alot cheaper and faster.

And.......if it happens again, then all bets are off.


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## RYDER (Sep 19, 2005)

Do a search of th oner name on www.whitepages.com


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## Sweetpete (Jul 11, 2005)

Most of these post are exactly what's wrong with the world today. Too much "Call the Cops" or "File a Report" or "Call your insurance agent"!! What a bunch of sissy crap!!

It's a STUPID FENCE!!! Did anyone notice that part?? Fix the fence and let it go. Life is way too short to be doing all the stupid running around that the "chicken little's" would tell you to do.

Wood or metal, it doesn't matter. Fencing is easy and cheap to replace. As for the cops not filing a report...GOOD!! If I was a cop, I'd laugh and say "Good Bye At least you weren't killed or raped." Get over it. :angry:


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

Sweetpete said:


> Most of these post are exactly what's wrong with the world today. Too much "Call the Cops" or "File a Report" or "Call your insurance agent"!! What a bunch of sissy crap!!
> 
> It's a STUPID FENCE!!! Did anyone notice that part?? Fix the fence and let it go. Life is way too short to be doing all the stupid running around that the "chicken little's" would tell you to do.
> 
> Wood or metal, it doesn't matter. Fencing is easy and cheap to replace. As for the cops not filing a report...GOOD!! If I was a cop, I'd laugh and say "Good Bye At least you weren't killed or raped." Get over it. :angry:


*And the award for the most intelligent post on Plowsite goes to...*


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## Sweetpete (Jul 11, 2005)

Plow Meister said:


> Do you mean to tell me that a minor traffic accident isn't a "minor civil matter" if only some paint was traded? How about a minor fist fight? Perhaps a child stealing a piece of candy from a convenience store? Sure, that is a minor civil matter that could probably be easily adressed by calling the parents of the kid and he'll get grounded or something.
> 
> Think about it... A "minor civil matter"? Not likely.


I don't mind being runner up. This is the dumbest post I've read. This is ALL MINOR!! BTW...I don't mean any of-fense (get-it??)


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## golden arches (Oct 30, 2003)

PPP said:


> The propery owner is by no means responsible.


Actually, the property owner is responsible. The plow driver (or janitor, or groundskeeper, etc) is an agent of the owner of the property. While initial responsiblity is that of the driver, they final resolution is that of the property owner. Both can be held responsible.

Example.. semi driver backs into your building making a delivery. It's the driver's error. The police will NOT make a report since it's damage on and to private property. The driver is individually responsible, but if he's employeed by a company they and their insurance are responsible for the repairs.


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

Sweetpete said:


> Most of these post are exactly what's wrong with the world today. Too much "Call the Cops" or "File a Report" or "Call your insurance agent"!! What a bunch of sissy crap!!
> 
> It's a STUPID FENCE!!! Did anyone notice that part?? Fix the fence and let it go. Life is way too short to be doing all the stupid running around that the "chicken little's" would tell you to do.
> 
> Wood or metal, it doesn't matter. Fencing is easy and cheap to replace. As for the cops not filing a report...GOOD!! If I was a cop, I'd laugh and say "Good Bye At least you weren't killed or raped." Get over it. :angry:


and the winner of the most dumbest reply to a thread is ... Sweetpete !!!! 
YAY ... WTG Sweetpete !!!

anyway like a few people have said ... all you can do is find the contractor and file a claim on his insurance. < if he has any > if not you can take him to small claims court.


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## irocz600hp (Sep 11, 2003)

*i can help*

hey I've got connections if u give me the address of the three family i can get u the owner and his current address his mortgage company and his insurance company.


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## BOMBER (Dec 23, 2005)

Once the fence is fixed, install bollards, even if they have to be over the property line of the absentee landlord.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Just curious, what is a bollard?


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## BOMBER (Dec 23, 2005)

Basic bollards look like these steel ones..... but you can have wood, metal, cement or plastic, fancy or plain. 
Some people call them parking lot french fries! 
Whatever you call them they keep vehicles from damaging property!


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

I didn't realize those things had a proper name...  

Parking Lot French Fries???? LOL


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## meathead1134 (Nov 12, 2004)

Why even bother posting if you have nothing intelligent to say?? I know the fence is cheap to fix. How about if your mailbox was taken out or if somebody did some damage to your property ah don't worry about it Sweetpete can fix it he has nothing better to do but to add his own usless opionion.



Sweetpete said:


> Most of these post are exactly what's wrong with the world today. Too much "Call the Cops" or "File a Report" or "Call your insurance agent"!! What a bunch of sissy crap!!
> 
> It's a STUPID FENCE!!! Did anyone notice that part?? Fix the fence and let it go. Life is way too short to be doing all the stupid running around that the "chicken little's" would tell you to do.
> 
> Wood or metal, it doesn't matter. Fencing is easy and cheap to replace. As for the cops not filing a report...GOOD!! If I was a cop, I'd laugh and say "Good Bye At least you weren't killed or raped." Get over it. :angry:


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## meathead1134 (Nov 12, 2004)

lawnmedic said:


> I don't know about in your area,but in Ohio all counties have a web site where property tax records are shown. You can obtain the address where the tax bill is sent from those records.


I went to city hall today and the tax bill gets mailed to the house in question. Right now I'm pretty much out of luck at the moment


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## Grn Mtn (Sep 21, 2004)

meathead1134 said:


> I went to city hall today and the tax bill gets mailed to the house in question. Right now I'm pretty much out of luck at the moment


If this had happened to me I would fix the fence (Bollards are nice but will do nothing to stop a pile of snow from pushing through them) Record your time, milage, save receipts. Take the tax info and anything else you have and file a small claims against the property and name on tax bill. You'll obviously win, whether you see any money? Its just the point. Good luck man.


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