# New to the Business, Need Help with Estimates



## SnowWolf11 (Oct 3, 2021)

Hey guys, 

iv'e been doing grass cutting for 7 years, worked in snow removal last year for another company, this year I'm getting into it myself, and testing the market. 

Im not sure what I should be quoting for one driveway, two driveways, and a walkway, maybe a backyard. What ifs it's a long driveway, same price? 

Im looking for detailed responses as this is critical. 

Thanks!


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

What do you have for equipment?
What are your overhead expenses?
How many driveways do you have?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

What are your margins?
what are your cost of doing business?

What does it cost you to keep your operation going , every hour , weekly, monthly, yearly & with a profit?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

What a drive way costs in Main, is not the same as Michigan, or say here in Jersey. You kinda got to find out an average price for your area. Then figure your insurance costs, equipment costs and go from there.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

What do you need to generate per hour to live, recover cost of investment/overhead, maintain, allow for profit?
How long do you think the job will take you? What does the customer consider fair? Keep in mind its not worth it if the customers number is lower than the first 3.. the only column you can take from is profit. Anything else and you are merely surviving.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Look into the cost for Liability Insurance , your prices for snow plowing might have to increase a lot to make any profit .


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## Banjosoutdoorpower (Oct 2, 2021)

To give you a general base number, upstate ny; I plow with a 9.6 v plow and charge 60/hr, sand/salt is extra and based off of sq ft. In our area most guys with a similar set up are getting 75-80/hr and less with a smaller plow or straight blade. I am one of the cheaper guys around but i am a small operation and plowing isn't my only income winter time as i repair equipment year round. Next year i plan on taking someone on and expanding.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

How do you make a living off of $60 an hr.?

Not being a smarty pants or anything but I just can’t get that number to work for me. maybe I’m missing something?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Banjosoutdoorpower said:


> To give you a general base number, upstate ny; I plow with a 9.6 v plow and charge 60/hr, sand/salt is extra and based off of sq ft. in our area. Most guys with a similar set up are getting 75-80/hr and less with a smaller plow or straight blade. I am one of the cheaper guys around but i am a small operation and plowing isn't my only income winter time as i repair equipment year round. Next year i plan on taking someone on and expanding.


Hmm


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## Banjosoutdoorpower (Oct 2, 2021)

Hydromaster said:


> How do you make a living off of $60 an hr.?
> 
> Not being a smarty pants or anything but I just can't get that number to work for me. maybe I'm missing something?


I do about 15 local amish lots that average 45 minutes a piece (some smaller and some larger). I also do 5 residential driveways and 5 commercial lots. So with that i plow for about 20hrs straight as the Amish lots are to be done whenever. Around here there are 15 push able storms a year with a hand full of drift control, pushing piles back, and clearing a new area calls a year. I also have averaged about 40 salt events a year on 10 property's with a 20% mark up on salt and a $10 fee to salt. $7.50 for neighboring property's. Now that sounds cheap but everything i do is within 5 miles. Like i also said i do equipment repair year round so its not my only income. i also own all my property and equipment outright with no loans so my overhead is a lot less than others. So no its not super lucrative but it makes me feel better about taking day trips to snowmobile periodically over the winter lol.

Pricing defiantly depends on location and your overhead if its your only income. Just trying to give a some sort of idea as i used random peoples pricing to help develop my first contracts.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Banjosoutdoorpower said:


> i also own all my property and equipment outright with no loans so my overhead is a lot less than others.


Say what?


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## Banjosoutdoorpower (Oct 2, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Say what?


Id like to say having an old fixer upper house with shop and a 15yr old plow, sander, and truck with no payments isnt that crazy lol But like i mentioned this isnt my only venture.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Banjosoutdoorpower said:


> I do about 15 local amish lots that average 45 minutes a piece (some smaller and some larger). I also do 5 residential driveways and 5 commercial lots. So with that i plow for about 20hrs straight as the Amish lots are to be done whenever. Around here there are 15 push able storms a year with a hand full of drift control, pushing piles back, and clearing a new area calls a year. I also have averaged about 40 salt events a year on 10 property's with a 20% mark up on salt and a $10 fee to salt. $7.50 for neighboring property's. Now that sounds cheap but everything i do is within 5 miles. Like i also said i do equipment repair year round so its not my only income. i also own all my property and equipment outright with no loans so my overhead is a lot less than others. So no its not super lucrative but it makes me feel better about taking day trips to snowmobile periodically over the winter lol.
> 
> Pricing defiantly depends on location and your overhead if its your only income. Just trying to give a some sort of idea as i used random peoples pricing to help develop my first contracts.


I don't agree, I think at those low prices, people sre
Taking advantage of you and it would be advantageous to sit down and look at those numbers.

just don't gouge the Amish or Lebanon levi might come after you…


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## Banjosoutdoorpower (Oct 2, 2021)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I don't agree, I think at those low prices, people sre
> Taking advantage of you and it would be advantageous to sit down and look at those numbers.
> 
> just don't gouge the Amish or Lebanon levi might come after you…


I do agree they are low however i am turning a profit. Unfortunately for my area im not much cheaper on average to every one else. Next year once i add a truck and more contracted work my numbers will go up.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Banjosoutdoorpower said:


> Id like to say having an old fixer upper house with shop and a 15yr old plow, sander, and truck with no payments isnt that crazy lol But like i mentioned this isnt my only venture.


Whether something is paid for or not does not change overhead recovery costs.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Hydromaster said:


> How do you make a living off of $60 an hr.?
> 
> Not being a smarty pants or anything but I just can't get that number to work for me. maybe I'm missing something?


When I started 30 years ago,the going rate here was $60/ hour.
It's been at least 15 years since the market here passed that.
Not that there aren't guys still doing driveways and walks for $30 and it takes them 45 minutes with a 8hp blower.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I get more than that for my sidewalk crews. Truck and equipment (Ventrac or ZSpray). Or just a tractor staged on site. 

I wouldn't get out of bed for $60/hour.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

At $60/ hr you're leaving money on the table


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

For a truck


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

m_ice said:


> At $60/ hr you're leaving money on the table


Agreed, as he said his competors are at least 15.00 more


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

dieselss said:


> Agreed, as he said his competors are at least 15.00 more


So he knows he's leaving money on the table...that just sounds like bad business to me.


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## SnowWolf11 (Oct 3, 2021)

SnowWolf11 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> iv'e been doing grass cutting for 7 years, worked in snow removal last year for another company, this year I'm getting into it myself, and testing the market.
> 
> ...


Im marketing aggressively with google Adwords and social media, once I get clients (goal is 25-50) I will see what equipment I can budget in.


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## SnowWolf11 (Oct 3, 2021)

SnowWolf11 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> iv'e been doing grass cutting for 7 years, worked in snow removal last year for another company, this year I'm getting into it myself, and testing the market.
> 
> ...


Im doing residential only. Thinking that I can charge $500 for one driveway and stairs as a "Gold" package. At the end of the day it's what I am comfortable with is what I should charge. $700 for double driveway and walkway.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

SnowWolf11 said:


> Im doing residential only. Thinking that I can charge $500 for one driveway and stairs as a "Gold" package. At the end of the day it's what I am comfortable with is what I should charge. $700 for double driveway and walkway.


How many months is your season?
What's your service trigger?
How many serviceable events in a season?
How does your $500 break down against the last question?
You don't even have equipment yet?
You're hoping to get a bunch of customers to pay you up front so you can get it?
What about insurance?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jonniesmooth said:


> How many months is your season?
> What's your service trigger?
> How many serviceable events in a season?
> How does your $500 break down against the last question?
> ...


To add to this...it's October.


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## SnowWolf11 (Oct 3, 2021)

jonniesmooth said:


> How many months is your season?
> What's your service trigger?
> How many serviceable events in a season?
> How does your $500 break down against the last question?
> ...


Throughout the year, in Montreal, Canada, there are *74.1 snowfall days*, and 1120mm (44.09") of snow is accumulated.

From November 15 - April 1st.

So what's the math? 500 divided by 74?

Plus I'm getting my website redesigned so I'm anticipating a good result from the marketing.

No insurance, were a small company so im not too worried about it. In the event that I break something, ill budget for it.

For equipment, I have a friend that has an auction license so im looking to get a pickup, Toyota, with a shovel for the job. Maybe I'll sell my CRV as well.

Worst comes to worse ill just use my snow puppy to do the job, until I really need a plow.

Thank you for helping me in this faze. Appreciate it.


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## Banjosoutdoorpower (Oct 2, 2021)

dieselss said:


> Agreed, as he said his competors are at least 15.00 more


Competitors with new equipment, 20 yrs in the business, and a name to follow. Not to argue but this is small town plowing, my costs are low and my prices reflect that. I understand i could charge more, however im turning a profit, and building a name for my company as someone with reasonable prices, reliability, and quality work. Next year when i expand ill have the experience and known name to do so without being over my head and prices will go up and reflect that.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Banjosoutdoorpower said:


> Next year when i expand ill have the experience and known name to do so without being over my head and prices will go up and reflect that.


So does that mean when your truck is paid for you should charge less?

So since I'm a sub, I should work for less just cause my equipment is paid for?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

SnowWolf11 said:


> No insurance, were a small company so im not too worried about it. In the event that I break something, ill budget for it.


WHAT!!


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## SnowWolf11 (Oct 3, 2021)

Mr.Markus said:


> What do you need to generate per hour to live, recover cost of investment/overhead, maintain, allow for profit?
> How long do you think the job will take you? What does the customer consider fair? Keep in mind its not worth it if the customers number is lower than the first 3.. the only column you can take from is profit. Anything else and you are merely surviving.


What kinda money can I charge for extra like salting?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

SnowWolf11 said:


> What kinda money can I charge for extra like salting?


As little as possible I'd say......


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Nn


SnowWolf11 said:


> No insurance, were a small company so im not too worried about it. In the event that I break something, ill budget for it.
> 
> Thank you for helping me in this faze. Appreciate it.


we're not talking about your vehicles 
Warranty/ fix-it insurance. 
arnt thoes phone calls annoying.

liability insurance be it a
one man show or a big operator.

if someone falls ( slip fall) and gets hurt because of something you did or failed to do. 
you could loose everything.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Since I dont know where you are, I'll go by the Montreal quote. There are/were guys on here that dominated that market with big machines, great service, and low prices per drive. If I remember right +3000 drives at $499 and up for the season.
Competition is pretty fierce I hear as most of these customers can be swayed the following year b a flyer for a few bucks cheaper . The pioneers of this price point didnt build a client list overnight...it takes years and copycats eat away at it every year...so maybe have a backup like selling expensive snow clearing equipment...


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

SnowWolf11 said:


> Throughout the year, in Montreal, Canada, there are *74.1 snowfall days*, and 1120mm (44.09") of snow is accumulated.
> 
> From November 15 - April 1st.
> 
> ...


No....
What's your trigger depth to plow? How many of those 74 days have storms that meet or exceed that number?
44" per season... probably ave 10-14 1.5 + inch events per year? Just speculation here.
Whatever it is, that's what you devide 500 by.


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