# A few commercial and residential question



## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

I think I have my first seasonal contract and just wanted to run something by. Do I go there regardless of when it snows or do I go at the 2 inch trigger as stated in my contract like the per push contracts. I assume when I get my 2 inch trigger but just wanted to doublecheck. Do they usually get a little bit of a break if they get a seasonal contract or do you just take your normal push price times the average snow event. The lady told me that the guy that was doing her yard Would take 2 1/2 to 3 hours to move her snow but I think I can do it in an hour or 2 so I was going to see how it goes but I was shooting for a total of two hours to do it is what I was going to tell her and it may take me a full two hours sometimes depending on snow depth but I'm not sure it is a lot of sidewalk and a large deck that wraps around three sides of the house plus a small driveway and a big apron on side of garage. 

Second question I have a piece of commercial property and I am wondering about and if I charge $xx Amount per acre for the first five inches of snow do you think the price should go up $10 for every five inches? so 5 to 10 inches would be $10 more than the starting rate or would you lower the number of inches to 5 to 8 inches or what kind of a price would you think? it's a 3 acre property kind of a U-shaped but there really isn't much obstructions to work around if any. 

Third question I called all of my customers today to let them know I will be coming over to sign contracts for the season I have one customer that is an old guy and he said he doesn't believe in contracts and he does not want to sign the contract. he is in a condo with 3 other clients of mine and I'm afraid if I tell him I'm not moving his snow I will lose all of them. I am getting general liability insurance and they say I will still be covered but what do you think


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

For the first question it depends on what the contract says. Does it say you are plowing every 2 inches or is it a 2 inch trigger and will clear at the end of the storm? All my Residential's are seasonal and they get plowed at the end of a storm unless it's a big storm over 12 inches then I try to hit them a couple times to make it easier but most times we are too busy with the commercials. I have a hard time believing that a residential would take 2 hours. What are you using for equipment? As for seasonal contracts, no they don't get a break. It costs more. Figure out how many times you will need to service the property times how long it will take to get it done to figure out cost. Then add at least 20% to that number to get the seasonal rate. Since all my Residential's are done post storm that lowers my total trips to the property. It usually comes out to around 10 services a year even though we get 100+ inches a year. So I charge $650 a year for a two car driveway no shoveling. $850 for same drive with shoveling. Prices go up from there depending on size. My prices will be different than yours.

Second question say you were charging $255 for plowing only on the three acres. From what I have read on this site you would charge like 40% more on each increment so would be as follows 1-4" $255, 4-8" $357, 8-12" $499 and so on. These types of contracts are not really done in my area. We do per push pricing. So if it's a 3 inch trigger then you plow every time the snow accumulates 3" for the $255. If you get a 5" storm you plow once when it gets to 3" for $255. They will have 2" of additional accumulation but you are not authorized to automatically plow it again so it would require them to request a service call for whatever the service call rate is in the contract. If you get a 6" storm you would plow it twice and charge $255 for each trip.

Third question. No contract, no service. At least not automatic service. The way I do it if they are not on contract they don't get automatic service. They can call for one time service which still requires them to sign a one time liability waiver/price agreement due immediately. And the one time/emergency plow price is usually double what the contract price would be. If he doesn't want to sign he probably doesn't want to pay. Tell him that you would be happy to service him when you are there to do the other three but it's going to cost him more and you need cash in hand BEFORE you do the work on his part of the property.


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## areoseek (Mar 13, 2013)

R&J Whitetails said:


> I think I have my first seasonal contract and just wanted to run something by. Do I go there regardless of when it snows or do I go at the 2 inch trigger as stated in my contract like the per push contracts. I assume when I get my 2 inch trigger but just wanted to doublecheck. Do they usually get a little bit of a break if they get a seasonal contract or do you just take your normal push price times the average snow event. The lady told me that the guy that was doing her yard Would take 2 1/2 to 3 hours to move her snow but I think I can do it in an hour or 2 so I was going to see how it goes but I was shooting for a total of two hours to do it is what I was going to tell her and it may take me a full two hours sometimes depending on snow depth but I'm not sure it is a lot of sidewalk and a large deck that wraps around three sides of the house plus a small driveway and a big apron on side of garage.
> 
> *I give my clients a significant price break if they pay up front for the season. helps offset my yearly equipment costs. I suppose this would be less of a factor if you had more capital laying around in the bank though.*
> 
> ...


*like ktf said, just don't get him priority. have him sign a waiver for the season, explain that it's not a contract. a few of my residentials are just word of mouth, but make sure you collect payment every service with them, otherwise you'll get burned. been there, done that.*


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

ktfbgb said:


> For the first question it depends on what the contract says. Does it say you are plowing every 2 inches or is it a 2 inch trigger and will clear at the end of the storm?
> I have a 2" trigger and i tell them I will come after the snow.
> 
> All my Residential's are seasonal and they get plowed at the end of a storm unless it's a big storm over 12 inches then I try to hit them a couple times to make it easier but most times we are too busy with the commercials. I have a hard time believing that a residential would take 2 hours.
> ...


So last year he was fine signing the contract and when I talked to him a month ago he seemed excited to have me back now today he sounded different. Maybe a bad day idk.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

You will have to hit expand on your reply to see what my reply is or at least I have to hit it on my phone. Sorry


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Ya maybe he's having a bad day. But the last thing you want is PITA customers.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

As for that resident if it is going to take two hours you had better charge for it. Without seeing it my guess would be that I would charge a minimum of $150 per time. Maybe more depending on the situation. So for a seasonal for me I would charge her $2,100.00 bases off of the 12 services you said was likely.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

ktfbgb said:


> As for that resident if it is going to take two hours you had better charge for it. Without seeing it my guess would be that I would charge a minimum of $150 per time. Maybe more depending on the situation. So for a seasonal for me I would charge her $2,100.00 bases off of the 12 services you said was likely.


There is no way she would pay that. It's a small small town. My regular driveways are 30$. Most of hers is all shovel or blown. Her place is the one with the big white garage and house on the corner and 2nd house south of that.


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## areoseek (Mar 13, 2013)

R&J Whitetails said:


> There is no way she would pay that.QUOTE]


Don't sell yourself short. Don't just take jobs to stay busy. if you can't make money, you'll loose your ass in a season. I tried that my first season, and have since learned. he's about right, maybe even a bit low for that price.
If that was a family member I'd do it for 100$ MINIMIUM


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

R&J Whitetails said:


> View attachment 167685
> 
> There is no way she would pay that. It's a small small town. My regular driveways are 30$. Most of hers is all shovel or blown. Her place is the one with the big white garage and house on the corner and 2nd house south of that.


I'm going off of you saying it will take 2 hours. The Residential's I was talking about up higher for $850 a year take 15 minutes max per visit since that price includes shoveling the walk.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Also if it's that small then you are probably one of a very few service providers. Residential snow removal is a luxury service and so luxury prices should be charged. Since it's so small you theoretically should have an equally small amount of competition. So come up with a way to stand out from the competition and start driving prices up. Obviously this takes a couple years to achieve more like a few but you can educate your clients on real pricing so that they can receive real and dependable service. Trust me when I started my business as a handyman and then grew into remodeling as a licensed contractor everyone was used to paying $35-$40 an hour for a handyman. I had no problem staying in business at over double that. Now it's just normal as I talked to a lot of other guys and convinced them it wasn't so scary charging more and now it's just the norm here.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

I can't see it taking me 2hrs either. My 4' shovel covers some ground really quick on a deck like that and a 24" one on the side walks if I don't use my blower. I bet if I had 1hr into it that would be about it give or take. I thought $60 would of been about right but maybe I'm way off. I could tell her $100 per push or $1200 seasonal and see if she bites. I'm pretty sure she won't bit.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Well you can't go by my numbers and you can't change pricing over night. Like I said above it takes time and a plan to raise prices in an area. But you have to make money. Don't charge so little that in the end you are loosing money.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

ktfbgb said:


> Well you can't go by my numbers and you can't change pricing over night. Like I said above it takes time and a plan to raise prices in an area. But you have to make money. Don't charge so little that in the end you are loosing money.


I just can't see someone in a town of 1200 people paying $1200 for a season to move snow. I get that it's a big area I just don't think the market is there. There several ppl that move snow there and actually anyone that has a skid steer moves snow BUT this can't be done with a skid either. I'm going to think about it over nite and maybe I'll throw $1200 out there to her and see what happens. She is actually related to my wife to so I guess she's family lol.


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

Do the plumbers or mechanics work for less in small towns? 

Be a professional and charge for it. 

And drop or put low payers on the bottom of your list. Attract and sign good customers, that is how you'll be profitable.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

cjames808 said:


> Do the plumbers or mechanics work for less in small towns?
> 
> Be a professional and charge for it.
> 
> And drop or put low payers on the bottom of your list. Attract and sign good customers, that is how you'll be profitable.


well I'm going to give he my bid today and explain to her how much work it is and the quality of work she will expect to see when I'm done and see what happens


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

cjames808 said:


> Do the plumbers or mechanics work for less in small towns?
> 
> Be a professional and charge for it.
> .


actually they do.
gou a tire fixed in one, took the wheel off, took the tire off,
patched in on the inside, remounted it, balanced it and back on the truck foe $20, that's right, didn't even charge tax,,,

a small town in farm country and you want $1200 for a seasonal.
where there are kids driving tractors to school......

I only have one customer paying $1000 in a city of 80K+. 
most pay $600-$700. (no sidewalks & no salt that is a premium service)


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

What I was trying to get at was charging appropriately for the size of the job. He was thinking it would take him 1-2 hours each time he was there. That's crazy. I don't have any seasonal customers that pay that high either. They compromise on what they want to have as a level of service to bring the price down withinn reason. Usually if it's something big like this that would take that long they have a contract for the normal stuff, like just the drive and walk from drive to door, and then if there is a big big storm they will request the extra work done for a time and material type of extra service to do the rest of the stuff.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

The lady want everything done every time. I agree $1200 is pretty steep for my community. I will run some numbers by her and maybe we can negotiate on the price if I have to


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

R&J Whitetails said:


> The lady want everything done every time. I agree $1200 is pretty steep for my community. I will run some numbers by her and maybe we can negotiate on the price if I have to


Just gonna say that not every client is worth having. If this is going to take as long as three normal accounts which is conservative probably more like 4-5 depending on drive time etc. but figure the numbers. If one account is going to bring in $1200 for the year wouldn't it make more sense to take 3-5 more clients at $650 for the year instead. So you can eat up the time it will take to do hers for $1200 or drop her and add 3-5 more clients $1950-$3300 for the same amount of time commitment. Do you see what I'm trying to say?


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

Yes I see what you are saying. She would be the only seasonal one I have but if I charge her $1000 a season and I get in and out in 1hr that would be worth it I think???


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Only you can decide what your time is worth.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

I proposed a seasonal contract of $1000 a year or $75 a push and she decided $75 was ok. More than she payed before but I explained it's how I make a living and I'm not doing it as a hobby like the other guy was. 
I don't think it will be anymore than an hr after looking at it in the day light. I can cover the deck and most of the city sidewalk with my 4' shovel and my plow will cover the other sidewalk they poured nicely because there's no grass in between.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Awesome glad you got her under contract Thumbs Up


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