# Rims rusted to the truck



## BPK63 (Sep 6, 2006)

I wanted to rotate the tires on my 92 K1500 before winter and I can't get the rears off. I soaked up all the lug nuts and got them all off. With the lugs off the tires won't budge. I tried a 5 pound slide hammer but no luck. Any ideas before I have to take this thing to the garage? I hate to go to the garage.


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## Too Stroked (Jan 1, 2010)

Put the lug nuts back on, then loosen each of them about 1-2 turns. Then go out and carefully beat the crap out of the truck for a few minutes. You'll hear them loosen right up. In fact one hard start might be enough. Make sure not to drive too far with the loose lug nuts though.


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## trqjnky (Nov 12, 2009)

that, do a couple figure 8's... 

or hit the lip of the rim from the back side with a sledgehammer. i have to do that all the time at my shop, farmers trucks seem to rust together horribly.


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

Common problem. I use a 20# sledge after soaking (from the back side) where the rim meets the axle. Make sure you use stands, but I also use 6x8 wood blocks for extra piece of mind...don't ever rely on a hydraulic jack. Not so hard that you bend the rim, but start by wacking the rounded edge above the bead. Rotate the wheel as you continue. It may take several tries, but eventually it will break loose. A big rubber mallet would probably be safer for the rim...but I'm not that patient. 

Apply some anti-seize lube on both surfaces before reinstalling.


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## goel (Nov 23, 2010)

Beat it off with a 4 ft 4x4


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## rick502 (Jan 5, 2011)

BPk63. X2 on sledge if steel wheels. If you have aluminum alloys be much more careful. I do not recommend you loosen lugs and drive truck, puts a lot of stress on lug studs.


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## BPK63 (Sep 6, 2006)

I tried one wheel tonight backing off the lugs and driving it in circles around the driveway. Not a great feeling doing that but the wheel still did not budge. Been soaking the centers with pbblaster for a couple days now. I have not hit it from the back side with a hammer yet. Maybe I'll try that tomorrow. I've never had wheels stuck on like this before but I guess it's common. I used a 5 pound slider hammer for 15 minutes and all I did was straighten out the hooks on it. The rim has slots all around it where I could insert the heavy hooks but I just straightened them out. Rims are steel.


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## rick502 (Jan 5, 2011)

It is common, sledge should work be safe and good luck. Let us know


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## Too Stroked (Jan 1, 2010)

BPK63;1320667 said:


> I tried one wheel tonight backing off the lugs and driving it in circles around the driveway. Not a great feeling doing that but the wheel still did not budge. Been soaking the centers with pbblaster for a couple days now. I have not hit it from the back side with a hammer yet. Maybe I'll try that tomorrow. I've never had wheels stuck on like this before but I guess it's common. I used a 5 pound slider hammer for 15 minutes and all I did was straighten out the hooks on it. The rim has slots all around it where I could insert the heavy hooks but I just straightened them out. Rims are steel.


I'll fully agree that you've got to be careful here, but think of the damage whacking a wheel repeatedly with a 20# sledge can do. Get my drift?


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

The heavier the hammer the better. Not saying a 5# won't work, but I can usually pop a steel rim w/ about 3-5 wacks.


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

Too Stroked;1320673 said:


> I'll fully agree that you've got to be careful here, but think of the damage whacking a wheel repeatedly with a 20# sledge can do. Get my drift?


For myself, I find that the less number of strikes the better. Smaller hammers can require a lot more strikes, then those strikes tend to get sloppy. Unless your on a lift, it's a bit awkward of a swing.


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## rick502 (Jan 5, 2011)

I use a 4 pounder and start in near the hub. If that doeasnt get it I rotate the tire while striking the bead. Never had to use more than that. Insert your own size joke here.


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## cosgo (Jan 8, 2010)

Get a big sledge like others said. Also, If you're careful, you can add some heat to it. If you havent done it before, then i dont recommend it.... and again, add some antiseize before putting it back together - apply right to the face of the hub.


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## Motorman 007 (Jan 11, 2005)

Way back I had a job in the tire changing section of the automotive department at Lechmere. (yes, way back when!!) When we had the situation described we would take another mounted tire and throw it, like a frisbee, on it's side, directly at the bottom of the tire that was frozen on the hub. The frozen on tire needs to be about 3 inches off the ground. 9 times out of 10, the force would snap it loose. Sounds stupid but it works.....


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## BlizzardBeater (Aug 29, 2010)

Do not run the truck with loose lug nuts, trust me. I've seen people do this. You more than likely will not hurt yourself, but I have replaced studs before for people because the wheel did pop loose and sheer the studs. A very large sledge, like a 20#, to the back of the rim will get it off. If they are alloy rims or you are concerned about damaging them, stand a block of wood up against the back of the rim and hit that. They key to this is not to be gentle, you really need to wail on it.


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## MikeRi24 (Dec 21, 2007)

CRC Aerosol makes something called Freeze Off or Freeze Your Nuts Off...something like that.It makes some kind of chemical reaction with metal and rust that makes it so cold it supposedly breaks the rust and frees things up. It works great I use it all the time for extremely rusted bolts. Anyway, it comes with e spray needle, use that and stick it right down in between the wheel spokes and soak it around the studs or as close as you can get. blast the outside of the studs and around the center ole as well. You spray it on steady (use a lot of it) and let it soak for a couple min and the whack the tire (not the rim) with a dead-blow hammer. Should pop it off. When I was an oil change monkey at a Chevy dealer a few years ago, we used to do that routine with great success.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

Soak it overnight from the backside and then smack a block of wood thats held up to the bacside edge of the rim. I would not advise hitting the rim directly with a sledgehammer. Too risky of either bending the lip or cracking it if they're alloys.

Or smack it from the inside on the tire itself...hit it as hard as you like.

When you finally get it off, use some emery paper and get the bulk of the rust off the mating surfaces and coat the whole area and the studs with anti-seize compound. Then reassemble.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

mine were like this on my 2500. i got a buddy over and we kept kicking the sidewalls of the tire, it wouldnt budge. i got real pissed and nailed the top of the tire and it poped right away!


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## BlizzardBeater (Aug 29, 2010)

Dont put anit-seize on wheel studs, it makes it very easy to overtighten wheel studs.


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## KBTConst (Oct 25, 2009)

If it is steel wheels heat the rim around the drum it does not have to be red hot just enough to expand it then hit on the back side with the 3 lb hammer it will pop right off. I have done plenty of them this way.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

I saw this cross posted on another forum. So Hi'ya.


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

Our fords are always rusted on. But they're hub piloted. Couple good hits oughtta be knocking yours loose! Quit messing around and hit that thing! lol

If you cant get a good swing underneath hit it out the outside. It'll come!


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## BPK63 (Sep 6, 2006)

mnglocker;1321153 said:


> I saw this cross posted on another forum. So Hi'ya.


I've seen this posted all over the net and I've tried about everything I can at this point. Tonight I pounded on the back side with a 2x4 and a 20 pound sledge for a half hour. I rocked the truck back and forth with the wheel on the ground, lugs loose until my neighbors looked at me like I was nuts. Drove around in circles with loose lugs. Used a can of pbblaster on it. The only thing I don't have is a torch. I'm either headed to the local tire shop or my local garage. That guy is usually pretty descent. One thing for sure, from now on I'm going to put antisieze on the backs of these things and make sure I take them off at least every 6 months and clean them. If I get a flat on the highway I would be screwed. Anyway, thanks for all the advice. It may work for me some place else some day, but not on this truck.


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

When you take the truck somewhere, they probably won't want you to see how they do it, but try and watch anyway.

I lost a tire on the freeway once & all I had was a 5# hammer. I beat on that thing til my hand was ready to fall off...but I got it. It was an aluminum rim & had a few blemishes on it after I was done. It still holds air & the tire company had no problems balancing it.

Good luck & keep us posted.


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## damian (Jan 29, 2009)

i porta power them from the spring to the rim and some times warm the area aroung the hub with a torch.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

BlizzardBeater;1321115 said:


> Dont put anit-seize on wheel studs, it makes it very easy to overtighten wheel studs.


Maybe I'm missing something here, but huh? How does anti-seize compound make it easy to overtighten the studs?

I've been using anti seize on my studs and the mating surfaces of the wheels for years and have yet to experience an issue.


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

mayhem;1321654 said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here, but huh? How does anti-seize compound make it easy to overtighten the studs?
> 
> I've been using anti seize on my studs and the mating surfaces of the wheels for years and have yet to experience an issue.


My mechanic said that same thing to me. Never gave a good explanation of the whys tho. I have also been using it for years with no problems. But I do use a torque wrench to tighten the lug nuts.


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## BPK63 (Sep 6, 2006)

My father used to work in a factory and gave me this big can of neversieze 20 years ago. It's enough to last me a lifetime. I use it a lot, especially on lug nuts. I have to start using it on the back side of rims it would seem...


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## chevyzrule810 (Oct 5, 2010)

I had to beat my wheels off my 06 2500.Put the lug nuts on finger tight so the wheel won't come off.Take one piece of wood 8 inches long and put it on the inside lip of the rim by the tire bead and hit with a sledge hammer.If you have another person eithier hit the opposite side of the rim from you or if you have an accurate swing have them hold the piece of wood while you swing.When you get the wheel off be sure to take some sandpaper or a cookie on the air grinder and clean the back of the wheel then the hub of all corrosion and rust.Then put some anti-seize on the back of the wheel and on the hub,but NOT on the threads.


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## damian (Jan 29, 2009)

we neversieze or grease all things exposed to corrosion especially wheels and their pilots,torque specs assume a lubricated fastener. the difference between staying put and falling off is never the neversieze it is the tension of the fastener.the difference between coming off when you want it to or not can be neversieze.


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

A little heat and it will come off. I also put anti-sieze on my lugs. And will continue to do it


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## KBTConst (Oct 25, 2009)

Any update on getting them off?


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## BlizzardBeater (Aug 29, 2010)

damian;1321902 said:


> we neversieze or grease all things exposed to corrosion especially wheels and their pilots,torque specs assume a lubricated fastener. the difference between staying put and falling off is never the neversieze it is the tension of the fastener.the difference between coming off when you want it to or not can be neversieze.





mayhem;1321654 said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here, but huh? How does anti-seize compound make it easy to overtighten the studs?
> 
> I've been using anti seize on my studs and the mating surfaces of the wheels for years and have yet to experience an issue.


Id like to know where it says torque specs assume a lubricated fastener. Do you anti-seize your head bolts before you torque them? In fact, if you actually read most manuals with torque specs, it indicates to use no lubrication on anything that must be torqued. And to be honest, how many of you that lube your studs use a torque wrench? Or do you just take a big pipe and crank or use an air gun and let it hammer?

If your studs or nuts are so rusted or damaged you cant get them off, it's time for new ones. It's generally a pretty simple job.


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## damian (Jan 29, 2009)

Wow, to choose such a technicaly simple thing to be wrong about must be embarasing.read any service manual. every engine ive ever overhauled instructs at least light lube w\motor oil and some such as detroit diesel and catapillar ask for international compound #2 or a moly paste. Please, I know most internet authors are full of 'stuff'.But why cross swords with a guy that does this stuff for a living over 35 years attended countless factory schools with an engineering background who owns a shop and is well known in his area as a tech who knows better than most.


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## NWanner (Oct 7, 2011)

I've dealt with some tough rims like others here have, but sounds like something else is wrong to me. Either that or your going to have to start getting *******/engineer on it. Come-alongs, chains hooked up to other trucks, etc hahaha


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

damian;1326455 said:


> Wow, to choose such a technicaly simple thing to be wrong about must be embarasing.read any service manual. every engine ive ever overhauled instructs at least light lube w\motor oil and some such as detroit diesel and catapillar ask for international compound #2 or a moly paste. Please, I know most internet authors are full of 'stuff'.But why cross swords with a guy that does this stuff for a living over 35 years attended countless factory schools with an engineering background who owns a shop and is well known in his area as a tech who knows better than most.


Who are you talking about as "better than most". It surely can't be yourself.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Only time I lube fasteners BEFORE installing is Stainless Steel, if not they gall. A couple sets of instructions. Note the extreme caution suggested IF using anti-seize only a little bit then only in the threads however manufacturers specify DRY torque values.

http://www.keystonerv.com/media2/pdf/Lug_Nut_Torque.pdf

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=107


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

BlizzardBeater;1322239 said:


> Id like to know where it says torque specs assume a lubricated fastener. Do you anti-seize your head bolts before you torque them? In fact, if you actually read most manuals with torque specs, it indicates to use no lubrication on anything that must be torqued. And to be honest, how many of you that lube your studs use a torque wrench? Or do you just take a big pipe and crank or use an air gun and let it hammer?


I've never pulled head bolts, so no, I've never put anti seize on them. I only put it in places that might seize up on me...like lug nuts.

I use the factory supplied tire iron to tighten my lug nuts (or lug bolts in the case of my wife's Audi). I snug them all up and then crank them down with the iron, end of story. I have never used a torque wrench or air tools to put lug nuts on.

I use anti seize on all my lug nuts and have never had one even come loose or crack a rim in 20 years. I started doing it when I sheard several lugs off a car that I wanted to put snows on and then when I finally got the last 3 nuts off the wheel was bonded to the hub and I had to hammer it off like the OP.

Maybe I'm just not seeing it the right way mechanically, but how exactly does applying anti-seize to the threads make it easier to over torque the nuts? say you're using a torque wrench, sure the threads are kind of lubed with the goop, but whats really making the nut harder to spin on further is not so much the threads, but the pressure against the wheel, isn't it?


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## damian (Jan 29, 2009)

speaking from not knowing is exactly what we are talking about here .you dont seem to have a problem with it. you should at least try to know a little bit about someone before bashing him,it leaves your credibility in question. and try to crack a service manual someday you might learn something.lube on a fastener lessens the frictional forces of the threads and under the bolt or nut head giving a truer touque reading and proper fastener stretch\tension.


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## BlizzardBeater (Aug 29, 2010)

damian;1326455 said:


> Wow, to choose such a technicaly simple thing to be wrong about must be embarasing.read any service manual. every engine ive ever overhauled instructs at least light lube w\motor oil and some such as detroit diesel and catapillar ask for international compound #2 or a moly paste. Please, I know most internet authors are full of 'stuff'.But why cross swords with a guy that does this stuff for a living over 35 years attended countless factory schools with an engineering background who owns a shop and is well known in his area as a tech who knows better than most.


You just got yourself right there. It was stated that "all torque specs are assumed to be a lubricated fastener". Any service manual I've EVER used, and thats quite a bit, clearly states to lubricate when it is needed. If it does not state to lubricate fastener, it is assumed to be dry. The side by side Just overhauled is a good example, it says to lubricate head bolts with motor oil before reinstallation.

But anyways, we are talking about wheel studs, not headbolts so sorry for that tangent. If somebody shows me a factory service manual that states to put never seize on wheel studs, I will apologize.

And just for the record, I have no idea who you are. I know a guy next town over who's been working on deisel motors and long haul trucks for the better part 20 years. He's an idiot, everyone agrees. I think maybe tomorrow you should probably drink one less cup of coffee, try logging on again, and learn how treat others with respect and act like an adult. Thank you, and have a wonderful day!


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

mayhem;1326825 said:


> Maybe I'm just not seeing it the right way mechanically, but how exactly does applying anti-seize to the threads make it easier to over torque the nuts? say you're using a torque wrench, sure the threads are kind of lubed with the goop, but whats really making the nut harder to spin on further is not so much the threads, but the pressure against the wheel, isn't it?


Read the tirereack link below it explains the PROPER way to use anti seize. I rotate tires to often to ever have them rust on. Torque ratings are always dry so using any type of lubrication modifies the end tension loading. Different lubricants have different properties, so if they were to produce a "wet" torque chart they would need to specify the lubricant. Lubrication changes the way metal moves under pressure and in resistance to other metals. Why you lube squeaky door hinges. A lubricated nut will move with less resistance enabling more tension on the fastener and greater compression on the wheel. Once lubrication dissipates much more torque is required to release the fastener. The other issue is equal pressure. Having all nuts at the same tension is critical particularly with Aluminum wheels. Varying amount of lubrication can create different loading, cracking a wheel or twisting it out of true. Why if we use impact tools they have a torque stick on them and are followed up by a torque wrench.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Most owner/shop/repair manuals will specifically state not use oil or grease on wheel mounting fasteners.

Torque specs given by a manufacture are for dry fasteners UNLESS otherwise noted, which is often the case with engine fasteners therefore they fall under a different industry standard of common practice than a wheel stud or lug. Thus comparing the standards of engine fasteners with the proper torque procedure of a wheel stud or nut is a very poor example. I'd think someone with 35 years experience would understand the difference between the two when a given fastener torque spec is with or without a lubricant since of course as stated it grossly affects what torque spec is required to reach the proper clamp load. If you torque a fastener with lubricant that is specified to be torqued dry you will increase the stretch (thus clamp load) beyond it's critical strength (yield strength) since you reduced the friction that was accounted for with the given spec thus compromising the fastener.

This is the reason you must know whether the recommend torque is with or without a lubricant beforehand. And for lug nuts on autos/light trucks it is without.


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## BlizzardBeater (Aug 29, 2010)

B&B;1327070 said:


> Most owner/shop/repair manuals will specifically state not use oil or grease on wheel mounting fasteners.
> 
> Torque specs given by a manufacture are for dry fasteners UNLESS otherwise noted, which is often the case with engine fasteners therefore they fall under a different industry standard of common practice than a wheel stud or lug. Thus comparing the standards of engine fasteners with the proper torque procedure of a wheel stud or nut is a very poor example. I'd think someone with 35 years experience would understand the difference between the two when a given fastener torque spec is with or without a lubricant since of course as stated it grossly affects what torque spec is required to reach the proper clamp load. If you torque a fastener with lubricant that is specified to be torqued dry you will increase the stretch (thus clamp load) beyond it's critical strength (yield strength) since you reduced the friction that was accounted for with the given spec thus compromising the fastener.
> 
> This is the reason you must know whether the recommend torque is with or without a lubricant beforehand. And for lug nuts on autos/light trucks it is without.


The Gods have spoken. Thank you B&B for the explanation I was trying to get across. The tangent about head bolts was my fault, and looking back was a poor comparison. I was just trying to spark some thought on the subject. It's too bad some folks cant have an adult discussion without making it personal. Thank you B&B for consistently being the prime example of how folks should carry themselves. :salute:


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

OK so whats up? Is this tire off yet? 

Also, just out of curiosity, how long has it been since the tires were last off?


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## BPK63 (Sep 6, 2006)

I took these tires off about a year ago to replace a broken parking brake cable. This fall I can't get them off so while in the garage for some other stuff the mechanic beat them off for me, for no extra charge. I will put some antisieze on them from now on.


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## buddymanzpop (Nov 14, 2009)

BPK63;1327838 said:


> I took these tires off about a year ago to replace a broken parking brake cable. This fall I can't get them off so while in the garage for some other stuff the mechanic beat them off for me, for no extra charge. I will put some antisieze on them from now on.


Now that the wheels are off can we all just get along?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

BPK63;1327838 said:


> I took these tires off about a year ago to replace a broken parking brake cable. This fall I can't get them off so while in the garage for some other stuff the mechanic beat them off for me, for no extra charge. I will put some antisieze on them from now on.


Rotating them with every oil change will help. How is anti-seizing the lugs going to keep the wheel from rusting?


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

basher;1328080 said:


> Rotating them with every oil change will help. How is anti-seizing the lugs going to keep the wheel from rusting?


I dont see where he said he was going to put it on the lugs. I didn't go back and reread all of his posts but he didn't say that in the post you quoted.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

I spray WD-40 on mine to get them unstuck. Let it soak for about ten minutes and then bang them a bit, and they've always come off. I change them each year though (summer and winter tires), so they don't have a long time to fuse together.


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## BPK63 (Sep 6, 2006)

I have a friend who just called me and his truck is similiar to mine and guess what his rear wheels are rusted on. I have been thinking about this so much I realized I have a drum puller for drum brakes and thought I would give that a try. He hasn't been able to free his wheels. This drum puller fit into the slots on the steel rim of his truck and I cranked it down to put pressure on the rim pulling away from the drum. Once there was good pressure I started hitting the rims with a 5 pound hammer and they broke free. Why I didn't think to try this on my truck I don't know but since mine are now freed up I anti siezed the back sides of the rims. I don't want this problem again.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

basher;1328080 said:


> Rotating them with every oil change will help. How is anti-seizing the lugs going to keep the wheel from rusting?


It won't, but if he puts it on the mating surface where the wheel meets the hub it will help a lot.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Yes in mimimum quanities it can, however it can lead to or disguise other issues and is best kept off the lugs, studs and seats.

Wire brushing and painting his rims and tires would be another solution.

Tire Rack on the subject

_Once you have completed your test fit, we suggest removing the wheel and applying a thin coating of anti-seize around the axle hubs to help prevent rust and permit easier removal when it's time to rotate your tires. Do not apply anti-seize compound to the lug hardware or studs.

The lubricant must not be used on either seat of the hardware of the wheel. With the seat being the main point of friction where torque is measured, extreme caution must be used if an anti-seize lubricant is applied to the threads as excess can either drip or be pushed onto the lug seat resulting in inaccurate torque values. _

http://fleetowner.com/equipment/tiretracks/fleet_debunking_myth/


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Basher your still arguing about something he didn't say......


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

For future reference 8ft 2x4 from opposite side plus 10lb sledge has always done the trick for me.


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## frmboybuck (Oct 31, 2011)

I have never had one that a #20 sledge won't cure.


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