# 2.5 Tornado on Cab Forward



## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Just removed the side and mounted the new 2.5 Tornado on the LCF truck. Oh Ultra Strobe added a few lights too.


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

controller in cab










a few pics of the 1.25 Tornado in the service truck too


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## twinbrothers (Jan 16, 2009)

no plow for the cab over


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Nice setup Ron.


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Thanks Mark, First season using the LCF for snow work, Lets see how it fits in. I have never run just a salt truck so I hope it will pan out. If not I can always take off the extention and put it in my F-350 Crew Cab, 


Twins, 

NO plow. I have seen 1st hand what a cab over does to a plow. I'll pass on that action. Should make a great salt truck with turning radius. We will see.


Ron G.


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Curious Ron what does a cab over do to a plow. I've heard they are great to plow with????


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## ColumbiaLand (Sep 1, 2008)

I have a good friend who has a 2006 LCF, The had to make a custom mount but last year they ran a 9'2" boss v xt plow, and a 3 yard salter in the dump bed, with the right tires that thing was awesome, I will try to get picture of it, the plow is on it now


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Looks good. What are you doing in place of the "blocking" as recommended? Maybe a decent size piece of angle and a couple pins in the bed floor.

You want something solid. Get in an accident, that will crush the driver.


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

2COR517;852598 said:


> Looks good. What are you doing in place of the "blocking" as recommended? Maybe a decent size piece of angle and a couple pins in the bed floor.
> 
> You want something solid. Get in an accident, that will crush the driver.


I can get some pics of the mounting. Trust me that puppy is bolted down about 8 times. I am also still going to do 4 point straps and I am working on a cab sheild just below the window on the bed. Right not the either top rear of the engine is exposed to anything that might slip off the front of the bed.

Most people that really know me, and not just those the read what I post on the interent I mean people that have seen my equipment and how I upfit and re-upfit my trucks know I build for the worse possible conditions. Just in case.

Oh and when you say "get in an accident like a 88 year old lady turck left in front of you in a 50MPH zone leading to this:




























Is that what you meant???


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## TRKling (Nov 1, 2008)

Ouch. That is painful to look at.

Nice truck though.. Bet it's an animal plowing snow.


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

TRKling;852903 said:


> Ouch. That is painful to look at.
> 
> Nice truck though.. Bet it's an animal plowing snow.


No lie!!!!!!!!!!!!! This truck is the 08 F-450 listed. It was delivered in Feb.09 and only had just over 5,000 miles on it. This happen in Sept. 09.

Great plowing truck. It is the second F-450 I have owned and I own a F-550 set up the same way.

Ron G


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## KrisR (Sep 12, 2009)

If you don't mind me asking how much did the 2.5 speader cost you? I've seen them for $ 4950.


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

KrisR;852935 said:


> If you don't mind me asking how much did the 2.5 speader cost you? I've seen them for $ 4950.


Thas would be a great price cash and carry. All total installed and tax about $5,800.

Ron G


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

rsvees;852418 said:


> Curious Ron what does a cab over do to a plow. I've heard they are great to plow with????


Well after the Erie Road crew did custom installs on 10 cab forward trucks for a local only 2 of them are still mounted today.

The issue is the steering axel is too close the the plow and want to ride up and over it everytime it hits something. Also the way the weight of the plow is leveraged that close to the front axel the power hitch takes a beating. At least that is what I saw with Blizzard Power Plows on Cab Forward trucks.

I have heard of V blades doing great. After you drive one of these trucks and fell the way it ride and you see the way it turns and at 1st glance you think WOW seating right over the plow would be great. Then you get bounced a few time in the cab and you think that would that do to the plow, or how would the plow hold up when pinched in the tight turning radius.

So it is nto that I have not given it serious thought. But even my plow installer how I have alot of trust in said it would not be a great idea even though he knows he could get it to fit.

Just my view. I think it is going to make a great salt truck but that is about all it will see in the winter season.

Ron G.


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Looks like it will make a great salt truck. I guess when your a big company and have lots of snow I can see where your coming from. Me, I like were I'm at one now and maybe two employees in the future. That means I will be the man to blame for any problems and damage to the equipment.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Sorry to see the truck like that, Ron, hope no one was hurt.



4evergreenlawns;852946 said:


> The issue is the steering axel is too close the the plow and want to ride up and over it everytime it hits something. Also the way the weight of the plow is leveraged that close to the front axel the power hitch takes a beating. At least that is what I saw with Blizzard Power Plows on Cab Forward trucks.
> 
> Just my view. I think it is going to make a great salt truck but that is about all it will see in the winter season.
> 
> Ron G.


I've seen the pic of the tandem spreader and Blizzard on Tovar's website, is that what they mounted all the Blizzards on? Or were there some single axle trucks?

Without being an engineer, my theory would be that the trucks were far too heavy for a Blizzard, based on the pic I saw. I know I wouldn't put one on my 750 and would think long and hard before installing one on my F800.


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## 02DURAMAX (Dec 27, 2006)

4evergreenlawns;852880 said:


> I can get some pics of the mounting. Trust me that puppy is bolted down about 8 times. I am also still going to do 4 point straps and I am working on a cab sheild just below the window on the bed. Right not the either top rear of the engine is exposed to anything that might slip off the front of the bed.
> 
> Most people that really know me, and not just those the read what I post on the interent I mean people that have seen my equipment and how I upfit and re-upfit my trucks know I build for the worse possible conditions. Just in case.
> 
> ...


Man that hurts to look at!!! :crying:

You have awesome trucks Ron!! I see you in South Elgin all the time..Can't miss your trucks! saw you in the 350 the other day on rt. 31.

Im Campos & Sons..Im sure you see me around....My shops in S. Elgin.

L. Campos:salute:


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## FEFMedia (Sep 17, 2009)

Those crash pictures make me want to cry.. I couldn't imagine if someone hit my F350


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## JaimeG (Jan 25, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your truck getting hit. What light bar do you have on the service truck?


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

JaimeG;854119 said:


> Sorry to hear about your truck getting hit. What light bar do you have on the service truck?


In the picture posted here at the time it was a 911EP 48" bar. Since I removed it and replace it with a Arrow stick in that location and when with Split Code 3 Supervisors in the cab. I wanted something more of a slick top for my Service Truck.

I have some pics of the Code 3 set up somewhere I'll look fro them but you can see the light bar at the top of the windshield in this pic.










Here is a pic of the LCF with the leaf vac.


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## JaimeG (Jan 25, 2009)

What'd you do with the 911EP? Those things are pricey aren't they.


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

nothing led is cheap. I sold it when I took it off the truck. 

Ron G


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## GLSS22 (Dec 31, 2007)

Nice truck and setup. Did you ever have issues with your 1st generation tornado? Good luck this season.


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## twinbrothers (Jan 16, 2009)

nice pics keep them coming


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Knockah22;855033 said:


> Nice truck and setup. Did you ever have issues with your 1st generation tornado? Good luck this season.


Nothing more than should be explected. I finally added the inverted V this season and will be chaning the motor too. The current motor is running but making too much noise for me to start out the season and wait and see.

In the past sometimes when the salt was wet and would plow for awhile before I started spreadering it would bind the belt and I would have to clear some weight off the rear roller. Like a 5 Gallon bucket full and then it would take off. After I dropped a couple hundred pounds it would work fine the rest of the load.

I would say that might have happen 5 times last season. Other than that once you get it dialed in and know what it can do it is a great unit for the money and the application I have it in.

Ron G


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## 3311 (Oct 10, 2007)

4evergreenlawns;851906 said:


> Just removed the side and mounted the new 2.5 Tornado on the LCF truck. Oh Ultra Strobe added a few lights too.


Where's the counter balance ?


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Mark Oomkes;853040 said:


> Sorry to see the truck like that, Ron, hope no one was hurt.
> 
> I've seen the pic of the tandem spreader and Blizzard on Tovar's website, is that what they mounted all the Blizzards on? Or were there some single axle trucks?
> 
> Without being an engineer, my theory would be that the trucks were far too heavy for a Blizzard, based on the pic I saw. I know I wouldn't put one on my 750 and would think long and hard before installing one on my F800.


Mark,

Sorry I overlooked this reply. Funny thing you should mention being not being an engineer al all. Also the size of the truck. However, it was a very highly recommended and often reguarded to as the "Blizzard Wizzard" or "Blizzard God" AND there has also been mention of this person being and an engineer of sorts of it is he has a degree in Enginneer, not sure exactly as his resume it as an expert is well document on many internet forums, that designed the mount in person for those trucks.

Well let me share some pictures that might help make the point.


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

OH here are a few really good ones:



















How many you might ask???


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Full creidt for the custom design of the mount:










So what this comes down to is there were T7500 GMC DUAL REAR AXLE commercial trucks.

More about the back story one might ask, well when the owner of this multi million dollar nationalyl known owned by a previous SIMA President snow only company was to explore a new platform he considered testing 10 cab forward designs. When he was selecting the plow to use and wanted the most productive commercial plow available it was the 8611 he wanted. The ONLY way that was going to happen after talking to the MFG at the time was to get the "ONE AND ONLY" person that could make it, if it would, work was a guy in Erie, PA that could make a Blizzard work on ANYTHING.

Much time went into planning this project and the owner for some crazy reason just did not see transporting 10 trucks to Erie, PA and back just for a plow install made sense. So the deal was made that the Erie guys would come to chicago and do the job hands on. Now we have heard about how sub standard the shop he was forced to work in was and being such a hole in the wall, and was nothing like the shop in Erie, PA but still the professional that he was looked at the cab and chasis and decided under his direct design and development he could make a mount that that would get the 8611 on the truck.

Now one could say, was there any talk about the weight behind the plow? These were not just cab and chasis that were given the modification, NO! The trucks were upfit with the salt spreaders on them. Moreover, I can tell you having been there in the shop personally 2 days during the project the issue of weight came up several times by more than one person. One of which was a person I consider to be about one of the best fabrication guys I have met in all of my professional encoutners. We were all told, the Erie desiged rig would hold up just fine, the 8611 is HD and designed for commercial applicaitons, and he had done this type of install many times and there are cab forward trucks all over in the "snow belt" with the Erie upfit that do just fine. For the amount of snow we get in chicago there would be no problems.

I can tell you that as of this season Tovar has added about 20 trucks since the cab forward in several weight classes al over 26,000LBS GVWR and not a ONE of them got a Blizzard, and not one of them are cab forward, NOT A ONE!!!!!! As matter of fact, only TWO of the touted Custom Built Erie Special 8611's are even still hanging on the trucks. Tovar Snow Plowing as a company will NEVER hang another Blizzard on any of the trucks they own. What do you think that did for the Blizzard brand in this area?? What do you think Tovar thinks when a sub come to the table with a few truck upfit with Blizzard Power Plows and ask for a few more dollars an hour based on the plow he is using and the additional cost he had to invest to be more productive to the betterment of his company? You think anyone over at Tovar thinks Blizzard is a dependable plow and warrants the additional dollars per hour?? We have the "Blizzard Wizzard" to thank for that.

So you tell me, if weight was an issue, and the expert in the field at the time said, "I CAN MAKE IT WORK" did he not consider the weight issue or was an ego in the way, OR was it the money, fame, and the need to be known as the "GOD" some many have anointed him to be that just was unable to do the professional thing and say "NO" this can not be done?

What did I learn from all of this, many things notwithstanding, IF the MFG does not make a mount for it to fit a truck OR the MFG tell you they DO NOT RECCOMMEND that plow for that truck DO NOT "JERRE RIG" it to make it work and thing it will work. Just like the idea that when you buy a BRAND NEW PLOW that came from a professional production line you should have to fet someone to weld and cut on it for a day to improve upon it because an "EXPERT" payuppayup said so.

OH, one might ask, well did anyone do anything to keep the Erie guys in the loop so they could right such a wrong and make things better, well, YES, I did personally during the first season the trucks saw snow. Tovar is in my backyard. I do business with them, and I can tell you there was not even an attempt to deal with it. It was chalk up as I am not the installing dealer, I was just hired to do the development and custom design. I left them all they needed, I showed them how it all goes on the turck and left one truck complete for them to reference. It is on them. Is exactly what I was told, shortly before being showed the door at a place where I would have told the same account. I asked if you only did the install on one truck, and one plow why did you sign all 10 and assign them all Erie Special #'S.

Best, Ron G


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

So are you going to tell me that the drivers had "NOTHING" to do with the destruction of those plows?


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

rsvees;870182 said:


> So are you going to tell me that the drivers had "NOTHING" to do with the destruction of those plows?


Rsvees,

Really??? As I have come to read alot of your post I think you would have something better that that to ask. Not a flame at all I think you are a smart guy.

Never said, that, this is the defense applied to me in that I abuse my equipment. Let me tell you I am hard on my equipment and I uses it for it intened application. I also BUILD for the work they do, and I maintain the piss out of everything on own. NOTHING goes without being fix to the way it was when I bought it no "JERRE RIGGING" on my equipment.

I do not put a 1/2ton truck on the road to tow a 8.5x20 enclosed trailer that weights about 7000lbs 6 days a week during the lawn season. I hardly ever two my Skid Steer with any of my F-350 even though they can tow it. That is why I own a F-450 and F-550. Just another example of people thinking that I am a bag of hot air. My business pratices and re-occurring profit are proven by my balance sheet not what is posted here.

I buy the best equipment available for the job. I have taken heat about buying new equipment and having alot of it in a short time. From what I can tell the R.O.I. far out weights the upfront savings from not buying the right equipment for the job of should I say the intended use. I would say in this example Tovar was no different they searched out the best appliction and went to the EXPERT. Did the EXPERT not consider what driver habits might be involed. He sure does piss all over DD say how they do not consider the design and application of the changes to the Blizzard line.

You mentioned that being a small company you are the only one to blame, once you start having employees you will learn quick that you can islolate patterns to many things. Like, job site, day of the week, type of mower, type of plow, and YES, employee BUT when you are running a fleet where there are 10 trucks and 2 drivers assigned to each truck and if you really think that a smapling of up to as many as 20-25 diffeerent drivers ALL abused the equipement in the same way? OR in this application as Mark O mentioined was the over all weight of a 36,000 GVWR truck behind a 8611 just not the proper applcation for the plow? Mark O runs trucks in this weight class I do not. He owns his share of E/S plows and what I take from his post EVEN if Jerre could hang a 8611 on his F750 or F800 he WOULD NOT LET HIM DO IT. NOT THE RIGHT PLOW!!!!!!!!!!!:realmad:

Come on, take Erie out of the initial install. If this was being told by the owner as a problem with the work being done by someone else you can bet dollars to dougnuts, (as a cop I eat my share and then some) the Erie camp would be all over the weight issue.

With over 25 years experience managing employess and I can tell you the chance that 20-25 different drivers, all operating under different conditions would all have the same end result is HIGHLY UNLIKELY. I will get the black and white vision tossed at me I am sure but it is just the facts. Think about it.

Running a business has alot to do the the number. Number apply to everything. I have said it before but NO ONE hear me past the idea that Erie is involed. My Erie Special 1 of 7 Blizzard plows that I run is the only one to have seen a A Frame and Quad. More over, a combination of 5 plows 3 of which have hard stop "JERRE NUTZ" only 3 of them show any signs being tweaked at the A frame, YES, the one that had hard stop welded onto them. The two with no hard stops do bent pins but HAVE NOT TWEAKED the A frame. Even you would can see that replace pins a couple of time a season is more cost effective then a tweaked A frame that casues unven edge wear. Just ask E/S owner across the baords how many of them see consistant uneven edge wear and see their plow just alittle tweaked when raised to full stop. That be full raised factory stop.

I do not post any of this in hast, and most of this comes from years of me just reading the gospel of Erie. I post from my expereince or what I have seen 1st hand. I have seen these plows in question in Tovar's yard. In my professional opinoin I wuld say causing factor fot what I saw, 10%-15% driver abuse/misuse 85%-90% wrong application of plow to truck.

Let me remind you the MFG at the time (ask who was the MFG at the time)told Tovar who spoke with them directly, they would not back this application at all, but someone else stepped up and took on the job. With that should come some ownership. I remember many a post of where a plow operator brings in a damages plow during warranty and the damge is consider 'DRIVER ABUSE" and they go off like a ICBM caliming "DRIVER ABUSE" is just a way for the MFG not to accept responsibility. Have you never heard this tyep of story being told?

As a business owner you have take the good with the bad. If anyone really thinks NO ONE has ever been less than 100% happy with 100% of the work that comes out of that shop in Erie I would say those people have been over served with the kool-aid. Just like with any hangover in a few days you wil see much clearly be thinking how do I get that tatoo removed. 

Ron G.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rsvees;870182 said:


> So are you going to tell me that the drivers had "NOTHING" to do with the destruction of those plows?


You really think a plow designed for 450\4500-550\5500 is going to stand up to that amount of weight behind it?

I can get 7 tons in my 750, truck weighs in at about 18K unloaded, so that gives me 32K plus a 1500# (municipal) plow.

After bending A-frames, wings, slide boxes etc on my 550's, there is no way on God's green earth that I would even dream of a Blizzard on either of my bigger trucks. No matter how much I would love to see it.

Back when I bought my F800 I was having a hard time deciding what plow to buy for it. I was looking at a Monroe Reversible Full Trip 10' and a Western Muni 10'. I asked my welder\fab guy what his opinion was. (Western was $2K cheaper than the Monroe) He looked at the specs and told me if I bought the Western he was going to charge me a minimum of $500 every I brought it in--no matter what was broke--to encourage me to buy the Monroe.

Take a wild guess which one I bought and how many times I have had to have it fixed.


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

That's not what I was saying.... Now if you think about it, and YOU were driving the truck Mark, you don't think that you could hang a plow on an F650 and make it last? I know that my next vehicle will be a cab forward... Not sure of the brand yet, but that will be what I buy, and I will hang a Blizzard off the front of it. That being said I will drive it. I have now desire to have more then 2-3 trucks, and I know that I can make it work and last.

Ron, I have Erie 99, now I didn't drink any kool aid while i was there, but I do feel that many of the upgrades are worth every dollar. As for the nuts to be honest I like Chris's stops that he fabed up better and I think they would help the issue with the A Frame. I also know that the D&D a frames aren't as good, so that is a risk I was willing to take not to have the issue of bending pins. Everyone has opinions, but I don't feel it's right to trash on someones install. This company owner wanted these plows on these trucks, Jerre gave him what he wanted. That's what he does, gives people what they want. I honestly have a hard time believing that he didn't say to this guy that the truck maybe a bit much for the plow. Maybe he didn't though, I don't know.

My local municipality has a wideout on a brand new GMC 5500, how long do you think that thing is going to last on our local roads? But the dealer gave them what they asked for. This guy wanted 8611's, he got what he asked for, if it didn't work, well that's tough.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rsvees;870609 said:


> That's not what I was saying.... Now if you think about it, and YOU were driving the truck Mark, you don't think that you could hang a plow on an F650 and make it last?


Nope, I, like Ron, use my equipment to it's fullest. Some would call it abuse. I'm probably harder on my equipment than my employees.

Knowing the hazards of plowing, that amount of weight will cause the 8611 to bend, fold, pretzel, tweak, etc. With or without Erie Specializing.

Everyone will catch a drain grate, manhole, water shutoff, curb, whatever at some point in time. And if you plow for a living, you won't be going under the recommended speed of the mfg.


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Rsvees, 

Off topic but to your point about "giving a custmer what they want".

More then once I have had to walk away from the table when a Client insisted on a design the I knew was not going to pan out. I warranty my installs for 5 years from the date of completion. You can bet if a Client want me to build something that I know will not last 5 weeks much less 5 years I WILL NOT TO THE WORK. I will offer then the best option possible and I will do all I can to uphold my brand.

So I really do not care what a Cleint tells me about what they want and waht they will pay or how I do nto need to warranty it if I do not think it will last 5 years. Once it fails they are not going to be telling ther friend they were the one that were told it would not work but wanted it anyway. 

What about all the referal business I lose when people show up and see the work and ask, "WHO DID THAT INSTALL?" not that is looks like arse. 

Back on topic, the owner ask COULD IT BE DONE, it was told by was was being called the EXPERT "YES". Not one time did he ever mention that he told Tovar the plows would not hold up, and if he did know they would not and did the work anyway for the money do you really think there is any ethics behind that at ALL??????

Hey, I am not mixing words about how I view this and I can tell you, I am honest, I do not lie, and I am not going to comprimise my brand for NO ONE or NO AMOUNT of money or fame. I have 15 employees that depend on me to run my company in a manner that will sustain their quality of life. I never forget that ever.

Ron G.


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## twinbrothers (Jan 16, 2009)

Well said ron. From the pics i it looks like jeere could use some help. Since you know alot about the tovar trucks whats the scoop with salters on thoose trucks. I dont think i have seen anything around here like that, not even muni trucks.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Ron what exactly failed on Tovars trucks, the mount or the plow ? Were there other install issues as well ? Which truck is still on the road with a Blizzard from Tovar, who did the mount and install ? 

I was down there for that install as well, Tims operation, and help was certainly not on par with the magnitude of this project. In all honesty, those guys had no business touching any of that project. IT was Way out of there league.
To blame Jerre for the failure of all these trucks is wrong IMO. Tim inked the deal, his monkeys finished it, and he pocketed the cash. He also should have warrantied it.
Throwing Jerre under the Buss for this whole debacle, that he had ZERO control over, is not fair, and no matter what way you slice, it is Tims baby...
Did Tim step up to the plate ? Did he even finish the damn project ?


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## AA+ Landscaping (Nov 12, 2008)

On the new Tornado, did they add the sides on top of the old salter or did they totally redesign this salter? How much salt do you think you could really get in it? Because you know how we like to overload our salters!!:laughing: Thank you and keep up the great posts!!


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

AA+ Landscaping;873464 said:


> On the new Tornado, did they add the sides on top of the old salter or did they totally redesign this salter? How much salt do you think you could really get in it? Because you know how we like to overload our salters!!:laughing: Thank you and keep up the great posts!!


It is a total redesign and the add on side takes it from a 1.8 to a 2.5. I have not loaded it yet but I think we will get e chance ina couple of days I am taking that truck out first.

Ron G.


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

T-MAN;872661 said:


> Ron what exactly failed on Tovars trucks, the mount or the plow ? Were there other install issues as well ? Which truck is still on the road with a Blizzard from Tovar, who did the mount and install ?
> 
> I was down there for that install as well, Tims operation, and help was certainly not on par with the magnitude of this project. In all honesty, those guys had no business touching any of that project. IT was Way out of there league.
> To blame Jerre for the failure of all these trucks is wrong IMO. Tim inked the deal, his monkeys finished it, and he pocketed the cash. He also should have warrantied it.
> ...


Todd,

All the trucks got delivered, YES.

Was the shop under manned, under stocked, and in-expereniced, YES!!!!!. Jerre knew that once he arrived (not that is all my fault because I said the guy was my dealer and gave me good support by delviering the plow on time) he spent half the time talking about how bad they were.

Would you show up at a house cut all the trim nail one wall, put YOUR NAME all over it and walk away while someone else was going to finish? I think not you are far better a business person than that and I know it.

I never claimed to be anything more than a business owner operator, that started out with a truck and trailer and a lawn mower. It took me three years of being in business before I would even think about doing a patio install of any size. Was I offered work before that in the hay day when homes were going up in the 100's YEAH, Could I have tried it and took the cash and hope it stuck, SURE. Did I, HELL NO!!!!

Jerre talked to Tim on the phone and laid out the job, maybe if he did not change his travel plans two times he would have gotten there with enough time to stay on to do the job right himself, IF doing the job right was really that important to him. If he showed up and the shop was not up to par why not WALK AWAY FROM THE JOB and chaulk it up to air fair! If he wanted to stand up to being the man he is he would have stood behind the project and stayed untill ever last plow was hung RIGHT or not started at ALL! Did he not bule sharpie, Erie Special and JERRE Service sticker the piss out of ALL 10 plow a day before he was leaving? Is that a sign of someone that did not want the credit for that job? Did he get paid for the a job involving the design and install of 10 ERIE SPECIAL PLOWS???

When I see and hear all about what a engineer Jerre is and how great he is at what he does and how he just blast the piss out of anyone and everyone that installs a Blizzard plow my blood boils. When I hear about how he falls over backwards to help people I GET SICK!!!!!! From the sign of things so did the folk as DD.

He knew Tim was over his head, he could not stop talking about it. Now the guy that I read about all over the internet in the JERRE IS GREAT THREAD, THERE IS NOT PLACE LIKE ERIE,PA. his a guy that would do anything for a person, takes calls all hours of the day and night, gives free advice no one esle is capable of knowing. SO what did he do, he took the money and ran. This is the same guy that people fall over themself to say them have meet him in person and own a Erie Special, and on. REALLY!!!!!!!!!!

I have seen him in action, and let me tell you, I ate some crow by not telling Tim to throw him right the F##K out of the shop and give all the cash back to Tovar after the way he was talking about the man in his own shop ****y or not.

TIM NEVER WANTED the JOB, JERRE told him it could be done and Tovar wanted the plows if there was a way. I did talk to Tim about Jerre before the deal was done, at the time I told him Jerre was very highly reguarded and if he say it could be done he could be trusted. WOW!!!!!!!!!!! Had I only known what I know today that would ALL have been different. BTW, I have not talked to TIM since the project, I am EMBRASSED!!!!!!!

He tells people how he lost all respect for me because of what Tim's shop looked liked and how he was forced to work in a substand shop. OH, REALLY???? Do you not think that is funny seeing how he was working in the shop for 2 days before you and I showed up and had he lost so much respect for me he was able to go out with me, and then eat and drink on my dime? Do you think that is something I would have done? If that is how he treats people he has no respect for, man his friends are in for real treat.

I have shown you what type of person I am, I delivered and followed through with everything I have ever told you. Eveything I have ever told you about my business has been proven, and you know first hand when I say something it is the truth. I will not lie and will call B/S when I see it. Having seen my operation I think you know I am not blowing up anyone skirt when I say I will WALK from a Client in a second if I can not do a job that betters my company for doing it, I mean it. That means NEVER compromizing and never do anything UN-ETHICAL.

In this case Jerre did both and wanted me as far away from ear shot so no one would ever hear the other side of the story. I have not forgotten and many others have been able to see the other side of Jerre. I have kept the lid on this for awhile and have been in hiding long enough.

I will leave you with this, what exactly do you think about a person when they sells a product to their friends for $305.00 when it can be purchased elsewhere for $245.00. I am not talking cost I am talking a selling pricing of an item that I am sure has a profit at $245.00, and whom I have NEVER purchased anything from before. Jerre sells the same thing for $305.00, 40% more? That is how Jerre treats his friends. Are the GTG worth be charge 40% more? If I was giving my business to Jerre I would paying him $60.00 everytime I purchased that item to be his friend. I rather have friends that respect me for the person I am not the moeny they can get from me.

Many people do not want to speak out openly in fear of losing other friends they have made along the way should they share their personal experience with Jerre that is contrary to the majority. In my case, I would hope that did not happen but if it does, I know I told the truth and only hope that people can value a persons candor and creditablity. I am not hiding and as I have always said I am not a hard person to find VIA, cell, email, PM, whatever.

Ron G.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Ron, I am not looking to get in a pissing match here. You know me, and you also know I am a straight shooter.
I showed up friday morning at that shop. There was nothing there, that they were told would be there. The list had been sent in advance, no steel, welding supplys or functioning plasma was ready. If a shop owner was going to fly in help, to do a project, I would hope they would be ready. Those guys wasted a full day fixing welding equipment, plasma, and hoping to get some steel in. They actually went to Home Depot to buy tools ! They worked till 2am to actually get some real work done. If you tell someone they have 3 days of your time, be ready, does that mean they have you for an extra 3 days do to incompetence ?

As far as taking the money and running, I would be cautious as to what you type here.
I am not so sure he ever got paid for his time, or airfare. If he did finally get paid, it took well over 15 months.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mark Oomkes;870403 said:


> Back when I bought my F800 I was having a hard time deciding what plow to buy for it. I was looking at a Monroe Reversible Full Trip 10' and a Western Muni 10'. I asked my welder\fab guy what his opinion was. (Western was $2K cheaper than the Monroe) He looked at the specs and told me if I bought the Western he was going to charge me a minimum of $500 every I brought it in--no matter what was broke--to encourage me to buy the Monroe.
> 
> Take a wild guess which one I bought and how many times I have had to have it fixed.


Forgot to mention. The guy who told me to go with the Monroe is the one who was going to be selling and installing the Western.

And he STILL told me to go with the Monroe.

So not only did he lose the sale and install of a plow, he lost all the repair work that would have gone along with it had I bought a plow not built for the application.


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## 4evergreenlawns (Oct 22, 2002)

Mark Oomkes;873864 said:


> Forgot to mention. The guy who told me to go with the Monroe is the one who was going to be selling and installing the Western.
> 
> And he STILL told me to go with the Monroe.
> 
> So not only did he lose the sale and install of a plow, he lost all the repair work that would have gone along with it had I bought a plow not built for the application.


Mark,

Goes to my point exactly!!!!! In the early years of forums we all talked about being able to bring some standards and "professionalism" to this industry. If a search was done I am sure you could find post back in 2000ish that would be very surpising to the reader of today about what and by who was being posted. I am not going to mention names.

What that dealer did was ethical and I am sure you have far more respect for him now.

Ron G.


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## Dissociative (Feb 28, 2007)

being someone who sunk way too much money building up my 99 f150 while the shop doing it just smiled every time it broke on a 8.8 and 35's with a posi taking my money over and over when all the stuff (i asked for) broke because i was too stupid at the time to know better.....

to the point......it sucks when you get screwed by a pro that should have told you your idea was stupid and saved your money...i have walked away from several jobs because i just wouldn't do it as cheaply as wanted or following their design. 

not sure what happened here.......but i'll support the comments about a REAL pro having the nutz to PASS on the cash in favor of not having a failure. i try to uphold that standard as best i can..


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## cleansweep007 (Oct 21, 2008)

Looks like some great equipment ! How do you like those tornado's? I have been contemplating purchasing one and putting it on one of our rigs.


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