# Who carrys while there plowing?



## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

Alright guys how many of you carry a concealed weapon while your out plowing. I know it one of many things on my list of things to grab on the way out the door but just wondering who else feels this way?


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Sometimes I wish I did, but its illegal here. I hear its quite common down there though.


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## Turbodiesel (Aug 5, 2008)

absolutely , thugs think we carry tons of cash .


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

That's ridiculous, or at least that's how I feel.

I've plowed some shady apartment complexes, and never had any issues.

If your fully insured, then what's the reason for carrying a piece.

I've never heard of a snow plower getting held up, if someone has I'd like to hear about it.

Besides, what would you have with you that you couldn't live without while plowing.


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## TPC Services (Dec 15, 2005)

Do kill me, but are you serious!!


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

My house is full of guns (hunting) but sadly we are not allowed to carry a weapon here in Canada.

When I lived in the states I never went anywhere without my 9mm semi-auto pistol. It was nice knowing I could legally defend myself by any means necessary... We really need Canada to adopt the American laws on gun ownership!!

I'm legally allowed to purchase rifles, shotguns and handguns here in Canada. I'm just not allowed to carry them around with me. LOL


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

White Gardens;697886 said:


> If your fully insured, then what's the reason for carrying a piece.
> 
> I've never heard of a snow plower getting held up, if someone has I'd like to hear about it.
> 
> Besides, what would you have with you that you couldn't live without while plowing.


1) Kind of hard to make an insurance claim when your dead bud...

2) I stopped at a store to get smokes and was welcomed with a gun in my face asking for my money... (I quit smoking, too dangerous lol )

3) A crackhead with a gun will gladly take your wallet and money. Snow plow drivers are a great target because we often make cash when we go out...


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## Scott's (Aug 9, 2008)

Turbodiesel;697885 said:


> absolutely , thugs think we carry tons of cash .


thugs wont come out in the snow and cold to mug you ,there all snuggled up eating there free food and keeping warm in a house they are not paying for. Ohh sorry I better stop now.


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## Turbodiesel (Aug 5, 2008)

I was salting a shady apt complex last week and was approached by a drunk who looked very shady asking for a jump . Im in the big city so you cant trust most .
I told him Id be with him when Im done . I just took off. Good guys finish last sometimes .
The only thing getting jumped probably would have been me..


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## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

White Gardens;697886 said:


> That's ridiculous, or at least that's how I feel.
> 
> I've plowed some shady apartment complexes, and never had any issues.
> 
> ...


Yes im insured but i payed for the stuff once and i dont want to pay for it again or deal with my insurance agent who i took my concealed pistol class with
also we plow a apartment complex that the cops wont go in but the F.B.I will


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

3 of the buildings we plow are in the wonderful "suburb" of NYC- Newark NJ, I wish I could find a cop to plow that route for me. It would be legal for him to carry, us regular guys can't in NJ, an it's just about impossible to get a carry permit here, unless you know a superior court judge. 

But if my guys are making cash I have problems!!!!


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## Joel B. (Jun 3, 2002)

If you have to carry a weapon where you plow, you need to find a new area to plow.


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## Turbodiesel (Aug 5, 2008)

Joel B.;697913 said:


> If you have to carry a weapon where you plow, you need to find a new area to plow.


Not always true . The owner of the apt complex pays well.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

drivewaydoctor;697893 said:


> My house is full of guns (hunting) but sadly we are not allowed to carry a weapon here in Canada.
> 
> Mine are all locked up in my dad's gun cabinet in his basement-better that way.LOL
> 
> ...


Me too-sucks doesnt it?


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## archer39 (Oct 26, 2008)

i carry everywhere i am legally allowed.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

JohnnyRoyale;697925 said:


> Me too-sucks doesnt it?


Yup but if you ever feel like getting out for a hunt buddy let me know. I have a small trailer located on 400 acres in Havelock. We have tons of deer, bears, grouse, coyotes, timber wolves and rabbits.


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## Snowguy01 (Jul 23, 2007)

of course it goes everywhere with me,


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## SnowedUnder (Apr 2, 2008)

Actually I think a handgun is too light a weapon. Personally, I prefer a muzzle loader. Now only will it kill the snowman, the flash will melt half the neighborhood.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

sorry to hear that you work in such dangerour areas...i guess if i were you i would also pack....actually if i lived in your area i probably wouldn't have equiptment to work with being that the keys are usually left in them.......i would be carefull going around shooting people though, your likely to go to prision if you make a slim mistake, not worth it to me...


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

I don't even own a firearm. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure a very dear friend carries to church.


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## NoFearDeere (Nov 7, 2005)

My baby Glock .40 is always in the truck


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

No gun in the truck, but a 5 lb hammer is always close by.


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## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

drivewaydoctor;697945 said:


> Yup but if you ever feel like getting out for a hunt buddy let me know. I have a small trailer located on 400 acres in Havelock. We have tons of deer, bears, grouse, coyotes, timber wolves and rabbits.


Does this go for all of us cause ill come hunting with you but i only bow hunt


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

wow i got it good where i live, i dont have a fear in the world i have a gas pedal that ll get me out of trouble, and thats only a ticket if you screw up, where your goin to jail? permit or not.

i can see it now, sir i pulled you over for speed, me i have a gun on meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee as im getin tazed lol ill pass on the bad boy status.imo


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

White Gardens;697886 said:


> That's ridiculous, or at least that's how I feel.
> 
> I've plowed some shady apartment complexes, and never had any issues.
> 
> ...


How about your life, Yea I carry didn't the first couple of years until a crack head in Pontiac wanted my truck. I got my CCW right after that and I don't leave the house when plowing without it. As a mater of fact I carry it if I go out of town and for sure when I go to Flint to visit family. These punks now day don't care about you or your life, they will shoot you in a heartbeat. Take my truck, I don't care that is insured but try to take my life and you will have a gunfight. Yes I do go to the range to stay sharp, I just pray that I will never have to use deadly force someday but I will if I have no other choice. I don't know about you but I do want to grow old and watch my daughter have a family.

Regards Mike


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## archer39 (Oct 26, 2008)

IPLOWSNO;697982 said:


> wow i got it good where i live, i dont have a fear in the world i have a gas pedal that ll get me out of trouble, and thats only a ticket if you screw up, where your goin to jail? permit or not.
> 
> i can see it now, sir i pulled you over for speed, me i have a gun on meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee as im getin tazed lol ill pass on the bad boy status.imo


why would you get "tazed"?? you know you do have the right to carry. If you are a law abiding citizen and you carry you have no need to fear a law enforcement officer. Hell here in PA you don't even have to tell the LEO that you are carrying. Although i have never been stopped while carrying i have talked to many many LEO's and all of them have been very cool about private citizens carrying concealed.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

flykelley;697984 said:


> How about your life, Yea I carry didn't the first couple of years until a crack head in Pontiac wanted my truck. I got my CCW right after that and I don't leave the house when plowing without it. As a mater of fact I carry it if I go out of town and for sure when I go to Flint to visit family. These punks now day don't care about you or your life, they will shoot you in a heartbeat. Take my truck, I don't care that is insured but try to take my life and you will have a gunfight. Yes I do go to the range to stay sharp, I just pray that I will never have to use deadly force someday but I will if I have no other choice. I don't know about you but I do want to grow old and watch my daughter have a family.
> 
> Regards Mike


Good post. Some people just don't understand that there are people who will kill you just because.

And you know what, in the situation where you do have to use deadly force to save yourself, killing a thug is doing the world a favor, so feel good about it.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

04red2500;697973 said:


> Does this go for all of us cause ill come hunting with you but i only bow hunt


Your more than welcome man. I have 14 properties totaling 1200 acres.

The property where my trailer is located is setup mainly for bow hunting. Very concealed tree stands on ridges and ponds.

Here is a couple of pics of my bow property. The middle pic is our black bear stand. We bait it all summer so they keep in the habit of coming in during the fall and winter.


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

JDiepstra;698004 said:


> Good post. Some people just don't understand that there are people who will kill you just because.
> 
> And you know what, in the situation where you do have to use deadly force to save yourself, killing a thug is doing the world a favor, so feel good about it.


 well I grew up in Flint, drive through Pontiac pretty much everyday. I have had concrete thrown at my truck at 2 in the morning while driving through Pontiac all in a effort to get me to stop. I don't think they were the welcome wagon. You work were there is work and sometimes it is nit real great areas. Hell I have turned work down in some parts of Pontiac. Beside don't think bad things can't happen in good areas, bad things happen everywhere its just part of life and I for one will not sit by and let some punk shoot me for my truck. This is the USA and I have a right to defend myself, and I damn sure will if my life is in danger.

Regards Mike


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## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

Well I didnt mean to start a war and to all of you out there who dont think there is a need to carry i hope your right. I on the other hand dont want to leave my life to chance if i can LEGALLY protect myself im going to do so!!!


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

04red2500;698025 said:


> Well I didnt mean to start a war and to all of you out there who dont think there is a need to carry i hope your right. I on the other hand dont want to leave my life to chance if i can LEGALLY protect myself im going to do so!!!


 Hi 04 red
The sad thing is that their are plenty of people in this world, like my wife who thinks the world is full of nice people and they would never ever hurt someone or god forbid try to steal your (her) truck. I having grown up in Flint have seen many bad things and if they so desire to try and cause harm to me it will be on. This is a old topic that comes up every once in a while. Everybody has the right on how they feel about this issue just like I have a right to carry a gun and defend myself from harm. Most of the guys that I know in this business around my area do carry while plowing.

Regards Mike


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## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

Well Fly i guess some of these people have never been in the pits of Pontiac


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

04red2500;698058 said:


> Well Fly i guess some of these people have never been in the pits of Pontiac


I have been there and in downtown Detroit (scary) and I've lived in some of the worst areas of Memphis TN and Los Angeles California. Lived in Miami FL too but that wasn't too bad where I was. Memphis was the worst because I was white. Its very anti-white in most parts of Memphis. Thats where I had a gun put in my face for being at a "Blacks Only Store"...


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

04red2500;698025 said:


> Well I didnt mean to start a war and to all of you out there who dont think there is a need to carry i hope your right. I on the other hand dont want to leave my life to chance if i can LEGALLY protect myself im going to do so!!!


you might be able to LEGALLY carry a gun but you can't LEGALLY shoot some one. 
even if your getting attacked and defending yourself you will probably end up sued and in jail.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

nekos;698063 said:


> you might be able to LEGALLY carry a gun but you can't LEGALLY shoot some one.
> even if your getting attacked and defending yourself you will probably end up sued and in jail.


Not true at all. In the states you have the right to defend yourself by any means possible and use deadly force if you believe your life is in danger. You can't just pop a guy because he gave you the finger, you'd go to jail. However, if someone pulled a gun on you then you have the legal right to fire at them to defend your life. There would be a long court case but chances are you'd not go to jail.


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## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

nekos;698063 said:


> you might be able to LEGALLY carry a gun but you can't LEGALLY shoot some one.
> even if your getting attacked and defending yourself you will probably end up sued and in jail.


I have every right to defend myself if i feel my life is in danger if your going to argue atleast know the facts first . Plus dead guys cant testify


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## DuallySnoPusher (Dec 1, 2005)

I carry my 9mm with me everyday, never leave home without it.


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

drivewaydoctor;698070 said:


> Not true at all. In the states you have the right to defend yourself by any means possible and use deadly force if you believe your life is in danger. You can't just pop a guy because he gave you the finger, you'd go to jail. However, if someone pulled a gun on you then you have the legal right to fire at them to defend your life. There would be a long court case but chances are you'd not go to jail.


im not sure exactly how all the gun laws work. i do know that in Chicago even if you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, if you kill some one in self defense ( in a public place ) you will be charged with murder. i was just briefly looking around for gun laws and it looks like many states are trying to get this changed. i think it's called the stand your ground law ?


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## vincent (Sep 15, 2008)

I carry mine everyday.

We have a rights also as law abiding citiziens to protect our selves or anyone in danger.


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## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

Have many, never carry. I feel that if can just drive away, I'll drive away. If you pull a gun on someone you better be prepared to kill them, cause if you don't kill them they'll kill you after you pulled first. My take is just that. I would never pull a gun to scare someone and I think there is many that would use as a scare tactic. Pulling a gun puts you in a bad spot. JMO


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## bosman (Oct 20, 2008)

The baby Glock is always within reach, not that I want to shoot some thug, but I don't want to show up at a gun fight with a hammer.


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

Ok old pic but I carry in the open. We do some bad places, Banks, and secure locations have had crack heads jump out of dumpsters and all kinds of *****. They stop pretty quick when they see me.


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## naturalgreen (Dec 6, 2008)

yep i do
st. louis has its share of crack heads looking for stuff to steal and i dont think twice when i have my sigma on me
never need to use it but its there
nothing helps give an inflated self image like alcohol or a gun, together: a problem
We seem to get our share of senseless violence where people are shot over stupid little robberies where the person wasnt resisting
that wont be me


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## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

drivewaydoctor;698057 said:


> I pray to God nothing ever happens to your 16 year old daughter that will make you eat those words...


nothing will. she is plowing a 40 home HOA, all older folks, out in the middle of nowhere...


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## naturalgreen (Dec 6, 2008)

its just a crazy world sometimes
you ever watch those real tv type videos of meth heads killing people
much less watch that first 48 sometime and you will bring a second clip


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## JeffNY (Dec 19, 2005)

leaving the house without my H&K would be like leaving without my cell phone. It just doesn't happen.


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## naturalgreen (Dec 6, 2008)

oh you can legally shoot someone hundreds of ways and illegally as well
you either do it right or not but there are plenty of laws allowing you to protect yourself
the simplest being life is endangered


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## metallihockey88 (Dec 12, 2008)

its pretty sad that this discussion has to even come up but id say it is definately neccesary in many areas. luckily i plow out in the burbs but my full time job i do a lot of work in the city, mostly in bad areas, like section 8 housing cause unfortunately they are the best paying and more reliable in payment being government funded. anyone familiar with chicago knows about the robert taylor homes which im workin at now and doin a job on 71st and stoney island last year with a guy sitting on his 5th floor balconey, drunk, shooting at all the white guys on the job. luckily no one was hurt but job was secured better and shut down for a while. thats just the begining of some one the stuff i have encountered down there and ive only been doing it for about 3 years. its crazy and have been seriously thinking about some kind of protection. a pipe wrench and knife only go so far


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## windrowsnow (Aug 31, 2008)

Who knows what someone has when they approach the truck at 3am. Potential customer? Crack head? Ive been stopped by buisness owners at 12am wanting there lot done and ive been stopped by crack heads wanting money. You never know when you roll down the window if they are going to pull a peice on you. My dad was plowing downtown 15 yrs ago and the same lady approached the truck every time he was down there.....money for a sandwhich....money for gas....a ride here...a ride there finally he looked at her one night and said lady if you dont get away im going to get my friend out and pulled out the .357 smith and wesson from under is arm. He has never had a problem since. And if you do shoot someone while plowing make sure it counts you really dont need two stories about what happened.


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## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

JDiepstra;698247 said:


> You two have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> Wow you are truely clueless. That is a perfect place for a predator to attack! Old people out in the middle of nowhere are easy targets.


yep in the 5 years i have plowed that same area, i have seen no one under 55-60. everyone knows everyone else. we are in a more rural area, there is not alot of drugs (biggest drug around here is POT) so they may get high and go demand free food at micky D's. now if I was in DC/Balt/NYC she would not be in one of my trucks.

if it would be my 18 year old son in that truck, on one be worried about him......


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## ahoron (Jan 22, 2007)

I live in a quiet town. worst crime here was some guy stole cd's and change from a few unlocked cars on my block. year or two ago guy is at a bar with his girlfriend she's being harassed by 2 other guys. The 2 guys are thrown out. They wait outside til closing time. one had a pool cue one had a knife. Confront the couple as they leave. Guy runs to his truck gets his gun and fires killing one wounding the other. He was held until the next day then released without being charged. So for those of you saying "I live/plow in good areas" Crime can happen anywhere. Be prepared and be safe cause you just never know. There are lots of p.o.s. people in the world


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

JDiepstra;698247 said:


> You two have no idea what you are talking about.


in Illinois you can't even get a permit to carry a hand gun ... you think a judge is going to make an exception to the rule just because you are defending yourself ? you shoot some one in IL your being charged with murder.

maybe your the one that doesn't know what they are talking about


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## GTMS (Oct 26, 2006)

RODHALL;698322 said:


> thanks..
> 
> yep in the 5 years i have plowed that same area, i have seen no one under 55-60. everyone knows everyone else. we are in a more rural area, there is not alot of drugs (biggest drug around here is POT) so they may get high and go demand free food at micky D's. now if I was in DC/Balt/NYC she would not be in one of my trucks.
> 
> if it would be my 18 year old son in that truck, on one be worried about him......


Dear MR. HALL,

Since I am so close to you, (Hagerstown), about fifteen miles I would like to inform you of some facts;
1) You live in a prime drug corridor I81 & I70
2) There are literally double digit figures for violent crimes committed in the State Line/ Waynesboro area.
3) You have a very large Gang presence of Bloods, Crips, Black Gorilla Family and MS-13, plus some more local gangs that are selling Herion, Crack and Meth for the NY Drug Traders.

I wish I had more time to educate you but I am currently preparing for work (My Full Time Job for the last 21 years) so I must dawn my Protective Body Armor and suit up for work which, by the way is Law Enforcement for the State of Maryland. Check my Profile and thanks for being a willing victim. As long as predators have easy targets they don't look to hard at those of us who appear as though we have the survivalist mentality


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

drivewaydoctor;697945 said:


> Yup but if you ever feel like getting out for a hunt buddy let me know. I have a small trailer located on 400 acres in Havelock. We have tons of deer, bears, grouse, coyotes, timber wolves and rabbits.


I appreciate the offer-thanks.


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

archer39;697990 said:


> why would you get "tazed"?? you know you do have the right to carry. If you are a law abiding citizen and you carry you have no need to fear a law enforcement officer. Hell here in PA you don't even have to tell the LEO that you are carrying. Although i have never been stopped while carrying i have talked to many many LEO's and all of them have been very cool about private citizens carrying concealed.


youve never watched an episode of cops? watch it youll see? face down in the mud rain whatever no thanks, i have a gas pedal, besides if i had a gun id use it and im not goin to jail overnight , even for an hour imo. if you live in a bad area MOVE DUMMY. let them crackheads shovel for theyre money.


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## Ropinghorns (Oct 16, 2008)

I only carry when I have my pants on. I carry a gun cause it is much lighter than a cop. Along with the 2nd Amend. right comes the responsibility of training properly.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

nekos;698063 said:


> you might be able to LEGALLY carry a gun but you can't LEGALLY shoot some one.
> even if your getting attacked and defending yourself you will probably end up sued and in jail.





nekos;698348 said:


> in Illinois you can't even get a permit to carry a hand gun ... you think a judge is going to make an exception to the rule just because you are defending yourself ? you shoot some one in IL your being charged with murder.
> 
> maybe your the one that doesn't know what they are talking about


Sorry buddy but you made a generalization saying that you can legally carry a gun but can't legally shoot someone. That's just not a true statement. You obviously weren't talking about Illinois, since according to you, you can not legally carry a gun. So, you must have been talking about somewhere else, where you can legally shoot someone, and legally kill them. Obviously, you are the one who doesn't know what he is talking about, and thanks for giving me the opportunity to confirm it for everyone.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Wow one more thing to be grateful for. This is a none issue where Im from, thats some pretty scary sh!!!t you guys are saying.


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

JDiepstra;698582 said:


> Sorry buddy but you made a generalization saying that you can legally carry a gun but can't legally shoot someone. That's just not a true statement. You obviously weren't talking about Illinois, since according to you, you can not legally carry a gun. So, you must have been talking about somewhere else, where you can legally shoot someone, and legally kill them. Obviously, you are the one who doesn't know what he is talking about, and thanks for giving me the opportunity to confirm it for everyone.


forgive me , i don't follow gun laws for all 50 states.

anyway , i was specifically talking about IL . i probably should have said that in the post you quoted.



nekos;698101 said:


> im not sure exactly how all the gun laws work. i do know that in Chicago even if you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, if you kill some one in self defense ( in a public place ) you will be charged with murder. i was just briefly looking around for gun laws and it looks like many states are trying to get this changed. i think it's called the stand your ground law ?


i was wrong about the permit to carry a concealed weapon , you can't even get them in IL !


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## archer39 (Oct 26, 2008)

IPLOWSNO;698448 said:


> youve never watched an episode of cops? watch it youll see? face down in the mud rain whatever no thanks, i have a gas pedal, besides if i had a gun id use it and im not goin to jail overnight , even for an hour imo. *if you live in a bad area MOVE DUMMY. *let them crackheads shovel for theyre money.


Yea it must be true it was on cops. i am sorry i don't look like a crackhead driving around in a crackhead town. I am not the stereotypical criminal so i have no need to fear a LEO when carrying. Maybe you are who knows. But like i said i have talked to many state troopers here in PA (fire fighter so i work with them a lot) and they fully support armed citizens.

*i live in an area with very little crime, in fact my township had a whole 9 reportable crimes last month.  But i still have the right to carry concealed and protect my self so i take full advantage of it.*


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

nekos;698594 said:


> forgive me , i don't follow gun laws for all 50 states.
> 
> anyway , i was specifically talking about IL . i probably should have said that in the post you quoted.
> 
> i was wrong about the permit to carry a concealed weapon , you can't even get them in IL !


Hey no big deal I just like to "debate".


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

JDiepstra;698615 said:


> Hey no big deal I just like to "debate".


it's all good , i do too


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

archer39;698600 said:


> Yea it must be true it was on cops. i am sorry i don't look like a crackhead driving around in a crackhead town. I am not the stereotypical criminal so i have no need to fear a LEO when carrying. Maybe you are who knows. But like i said i have talked to many state troopers here in PA (fire fighter so i work with them a lot) and they fully support armed citizens.
> 
> *i live in an area with very little crime, in fact my township had a whole 9 reportable crimes last month.  But i still have the right to carry concealed and protect my self so i take full advantage of it.*


Good post. Imagine how much lower the crime rate would be if more "non-criminals" legally carried guns... Hommie gonna rob a bank if the tellers all have shoulder holsters? How bout knocking off a 7-11 if the guy at the register has a glock on his belt? Not as likely.


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

JDiepstra;698622 said:


> Good post. Imagine how much lower the crime rate would be if more "non-criminals" legally carried guns... Hommie gonna rob a bank if the tellers all have shoulder holsters? How bout knocking off a 7-11 if the guy at the register has a glock on his belt? Not as likely.


it might lower the rate of certain crimes but others would become more prevalent. 
sure people would think twice about robbing a 7 /11 but the drunk *** at the bar would have no problems shooting you becase he lost a game of pool.

there is no perfect solution.


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## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

GTMS;698423 said:


> Dear MR. HALL,
> 
> Since I am so close to you, (Hagerstown), about fifteen miles I would like to inform you of some facts;
> 1) You live in a prime drug corridor I81 & I70
> ...


my name is Chris...not my Mr Hall or Rod.....

1 yep live close to I 81 and 70
2 State line is greencastle not waynesboro
3 been told the same thing by the PSP

Law Enforcement for the State of Maryland. Prision Guard? Officer? what?

You can say all you want that she would be a target. she will not be a target as long as she pays attention to her surronding. She know she sees something out of place pick the blade up and leave.


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## mullis56 (Jul 12, 2005)

White Gardens;697886 said:


> That's ridiculous, or at least that's how I feel.
> 
> I've plowed some shady apartment complexes, and never had any issues.
> 
> ...


Your just jealous because you can't carry in your liberal state!


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## mullis56 (Jul 12, 2005)

RODHALL;698228 said:


> nothing will. she is plowing a 40 home HOA, all older folks, out in the middle of nowhere...


I guess you have never had one pulled on you? Not that I'm scared, I played college football and I'm 6'4" 270 lbs and have been in fights but at the same time I have the right and I use that right!


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## turfmasters (Nov 24, 2008)

I have carried and killed! It turned out to be a Holy Nightmare.Even though no charges were filed I was sued for 29 million and was in court for 2 weeks.The jury gave the wife ZERO DOLLARS.But I live with this all the time.Taking a mans life is easy,living with what you did is the hard part.


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## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

Hey turfmaster would you do it different if you had the chance?


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

we will leave this discussion going if you can continue on in a professional manner...meaning quit with the attacks, name calling, language, etc., etc. and, if not, we will just close it down

thanks


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## turfmasters (Nov 24, 2008)

If I did nothing I would have been dead I am sure of.I only seconds to shoot or be shot.The hole thing happened in a parking lot at 2:30 am.End of conversation!!!!!!!!!!!


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## archer39 (Oct 26, 2008)

turfmasters;699000 said:


> If I did nothing I would have been dead I am sure of.I only seconds to shoot or be shot.The hole thing happened in a parking lot at 2:30 am.End of conversation!!!!!!!!!!!


very well put, glad everything came out better than death for you.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

turfmasters;699000 said:


> If I did nothing I would have been dead I am sure of.I only seconds to shoot or be shot.The hole thing happened in a parking lot at 2:30 am.End of conversation!!!!!!!!!!!


Man this story sparks so much controversy here in Canada believe it or not. What many Canadians don't know is we too have a CCW permit just like in the States. However the only way they will approve this permit for us legally licensed handgun owners is if "...our lives can no longer be protected by Police..."

I have disputed this with the Firearms Office over and over again telling them that when a bad situation arises such as being shot at or having a gun pulled on you there is no way the Police can save you. It only takes a matter of seconds. Most gun fights that end in casualties last seconds or minutes tops. Your story is proof that all law abiding gun owners should have the right to CCW and protect themselves.

In the meantime, I'll just have to enjoy the benefits of gun ownership....


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## Scott's (Aug 9, 2008)

Michael J. Donovan;698936 said:


> we will leave this discussion going if you can continue on in a professional manner...meaning quit with the attacks, name calling, language, etc., etc. and, if not, we will just close it down
> 
> thanks


Sorry we did take it a bit off topic,


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Michael J. Donovan;698936 said:


> we will leave this discussion going if you can continue on in a professional manner...meaning quit with the attacks, name calling, language, etc., etc. and, if not, we will just close it down
> 
> thanks


I think this was copy/pasted from the bicycle thread LOL


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## nosnownogo (Feb 29, 2008)

*seconds count*

hey driveway doctor


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## nosnownogo (Feb 29, 2008)

*seconds count*

hey driveway doctor when seconds count the police are only minutes away !!


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## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

nosnownogo;699165 said:


> hey driveway doctor when seconds count the police are only minutes away !!


Amen to that!!! There are alot of people out there who would just assume get rid of all the guns and no matter how much you try theyll never change there mind. As i said before i really hope that those people are right about the world we live in but i fear that there not.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

nosnownogo;699165 said:


> hey driveway doctor when seconds count the police are only minutes away !!


HA!!! This is soooo true!!! I have several friends that are cops here. A few regular cops, couple undercover cops and a detective. I respect the police to the fullest but they can't be everywhere at once.

I have a bumper sticker on my truck that reads "Criminals Prefer Unarmed Victims".... It's so true!


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## Indy (Sep 23, 2007)

My wife is a 30 year police officer..............Plenty of stories of people that know each other attempting harm each other and total strangers attempting to harm total strangers.............

I carry and I am trained..............I will listen to your argument on why I shouldn't carry..........but I will ALWAYS carry, thats just me.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

Indyplower;699194 said:


> I carry and I am trained..............I will listen to your argument on why I shouldn't carry..........but I will ALWAYS carry, thats just me.


Unless your new president changes that... From what I'm hearing he is very anti-gun minded.

I know Americans will fight till the end for their rights. Thats one thing I love most about Americans. My wife is American btw... Canadians are more of a lie down and take it kind of bunch. We complain till our hearts content but to each other, not to our politicians. Whereas you guys have the NRA we have several organizations that never do anything for us other than take our membership fees. Its pathetic really...


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I only read the first 3 posts.

If you guys carry I'm sure as hell glad I don't live or work near you.

If things were that bad where I lived I would move.

Sorry, but that is how I feel.


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## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

cet;699234 said:


> I only read the first 3 posts.
> 
> If you guys carry I'm sure as hell glad I don't live or work near you.
> 
> ...


First let me answer the question...yes carry at all times in the evenings...specifically when having to enter commercial buildings etc. after hours. Been attacked before not a good feeling...won't happen again without being able to respond.

A couple other points...

just because you have the right to own and carry a gun...sorry you Canadians and a large number of liberal US state residents....it doesn't mean that you should....you need to be trained and know how to really use it....meaning not just the ability to pull trigger or put a few holes in a target.....I am speaking of combat firearms training not target shooting or hunting safety courses...Also you need the mental commitment to end another's life if your life is sufficiently threatened..

One must also realize the police are not there to defend you but to enforce the law...they have no direct obligation to protect you...only and auxilary one by enforcing the law. basically you are on your own to protect yourself.

Being in a state and/or country that doesn't legally allow you to own and carry a gun (doesn't do you any good locked in a box) is just ensuring you are defenseless against criminals who don't care about the law and will get weapons regardless.

Whether you live in a large high crime area or a rural low crime area it really doesn't matter all it takes is being in the wrong place at the wrong time for one bad man and you are a victim....moving isn't the answer...though I would move from a liberal gun snatching state/country.

FYI I live in the state with the most liberal gun laws in the US and guess what....we have the lowest crime rate too....coincidence...I think not.

Plow hard and be safe 

ps. sorry to be political really just like talking plow stuff

Happy New Year all


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

I live in Maine....There isn't much of a threat around here, but I ALWAYS carry. Always have an always will.


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## illiniplower (Aug 22, 2008)

Scott's;697901 said:


> thugs wont come out in the snow and cold to mug you ,there all snuggled up eating there free food and keeping warm in a house they are not paying for. Ohh sorry I better stop now.


I have to disagree, come ride around with me at 2am at about 3 gas stations I plow and you will so that they dont stay in. They come out hoping that maybe we will hit there a** or decided to take our hard earned cash off of us. I do know that in Ilinois you cant carry concealed weapon. (dont know about chicago). Now if I carry a my shotgun in my truck not loaded after hunting, I cant even have the shells in the cab at all. However when out plowing doesnt stop me from carrying my 357 with me.


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## Blazin (Mar 18, 2007)

Well I live in the sticks of New Hampshire. Never know when some crazy flat lander might pop up and try to rip you off! I carry when ever I am plowing, I carry 90% of the time plowing or not. I grew up with my old man carrying all the time. He taught hunters safety, he was a gun smith at home, and ran the tool and die dept. for Sturm Ruger in Newport N.H. for 23 years. I have pulled my model 17 Glock on three dirt bags before on my buddies front porch at 2:00 AM. One of them asked me if I was going to shoot them I told him try me on for size. They split double time. I called the cops as my friend had his nose broke in the altercation, I ended up being charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Took two years to go to court. Day before the court date I got a letter from the state saying all charges were dropped, no indictment sought. My buddy was charged with mutual combat. Two of the dirt bags got off scott free because they said they were not there, and the younger brother was only 14. The third one was arrested on multiple warrants out of Fla. Ga., and two other states. Was supposed to be held for extradition, Judge let him out on $100 cash bail the next morning, he split!! If I had it to do again I would do it again. If I had a gun pulled on me I would take it away if I could, if not I would shoot the son of a *****. Saw my old man take a gun away from, and knock a dirt bag out at McDonald's when I was a kid. He never even drew his 45. Cops where all over his ass for carrying. He had a concealed permit for over state lines! Said he was setting a bad example for his young son! 
Another reason I carry is to kill and injured animal on the road. Have had to do that half a dozen or more times over the years.


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## Butcher (Sep 30, 2008)

Yes , we have to be concern about the new administration coming into power. They will try and do to the country what they did to ILL. There is legislation in 17 states now trying to force the ammo mfg to bar code there ammo. This is to track the ammo so big brother knows who buys ammo and how much you buy. Also in this legislation there is a hefty tax put on the ammo. So you better stock up now. They might not be able to take your gun away but they can make it so you can not afford to buy ammo.


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## Indy (Sep 23, 2007)

Butcher;699976 said:


> Yes , we have to be concern about the new administration coming into power. They will try and do to the country what they did to ILL. There is legislation in 17 states now trying to force the ammo mfg to bar code there ammo. This is to track the ammo so big brother knows who buys ammo and how much you buy. Also in this legislation there is a hefty tax put on the ammo. So you better stock up now. They might not be able to take your gun away but they can make it so you can not afford to buy ammo.


Funny you bring this up

To honor the new administration, I am buying ammo on Jan 20th, inauguration day!!!


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

Butcher;699976 said:


> Yes , we have to be concern about the new administration coming into power. They will try and do to the country what they did to ILL. There is legislation in 17 states now trying to force the ammo mfg to bar code there ammo. This is to track the ammo so big brother knows who buys ammo and how much you buy. Also in this legislation there is a hefty tax put on the ammo. So you better stock up now. They might not be able to take your gun away but they can make it so you can not afford to buy ammo.


Welcome to Canada Butch....

All Ammo here is tracked. By law the ammo providers (Bass Pro Shops etc) must see and record our firearms permit number and driver's license number. They state what cal ammo we bought and how much of it.

To even get our license to purchase a firearm is not easy. First we have to undergo a Firearms course for each type of firearm we want to be licensed for. Shotgun/Rifle and Pistols. Shotgun and Rifles are classified as "Non-Restricted" and Pistols are "Restricted"... To get both licenses its about 4-6 days in a classroom full-time depending on the school. After we pay the school for the training and pass our exams we are then given a pass report. We then send that away to the firearms office along with more money and passport photos. Then we wait 60 days which they do the criminal and mental background checks to find out if we are approved. If we are declined we've wasted all our time and money. If we are approved we are then sent a firearms license we can use to buy guns. Bear in mind, our purchases are heavily tracked. When we attempt to buy a gun the gun's serial number gets phoned in to our national gun registry. They then have the right to approve the purchase or decline it.

Last year I got into an argument with a customer over a bill they didn't want to pay. The customer called the cops and tried to charge me with trespassing by coming to collect the money owed. I wasn't charged of course because they never told me I couldn't come there. However, because there was a "dispute" call put into the police my firearms license was suspended and when I tried to purchase another gun several weeks later my purchase was declined. I then had to go to the firearms office and beg for my license back after explaining the "dispute" was nothing more than a business discussion.

Moral of the story is Butch, I doubt the USA will ever get as tough on guns as it is here in Canada. Now the city of Toronto wants to ban all handgun ownership here and make us sell them or turn them in. Whats worse is they also want to ban all semi-automatic rifles because they consider the semi-auto action a "military use only weapon".... Unfreakingbelievable....


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## hedhunter9 (Nov 15, 2008)

My Dad who is 76 interupted a burglery at my business,
The scumbag proceeded to beat my dad, kicking him while he was on the ground.
Hitting him with a helmet. My tough old man managed to grab him by the jacket and pull
him down which was enought that the macho tough scumbag decided he best beat feet,
and ran off. If my dad hadnt been as tough an old guy as he was, it could have easily ended much worse for him. As it was, a bloody eye, contusions, bruised ribs and a messed up elbow was all he had.

That filthy dirty scumbag was lucky that it wasnt me. As I carry a .40 star loaded with starfire ammo and I have been highly trained in its proper use. 

I have carried for over 25 years. Only had to pull the gun once. The situation was diffused instantly.


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## Butcher (Sep 30, 2008)

drivewaydoctor
I sure hope the US never gets that bad but there is a lot of individuals that want to take all the guns away like they did in DC and that sure brought the crime rate down didn't it. LOL I do carry even though my wife is against it. But I believe if the bad guy knows there are individuals that can carry legally they might think twice before they take advantage of an individual. I just had my friend in FL tell me he had a friend walking down the street in Orlando in broad daylight had two guys with knives come up to him and wanted his money he had a small hand gun in his front pocket and when the two bad guys seen it they were gone. So it is effective. I just pray that I never have to pull it or ever have to use it but if it is between me and the other guy being dead I will use it. Ohio just passed the Castle Doctrine so that is nice also.


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## BORIS (Oct 22, 2008)

I carry a kimber 45 at all times. I also pray i never have to use it, but you never know what might happen at 3am i would just rather be prepared. Man am i glad i don,t live in a liberal state where they take my rights away. :salute:


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## tattood_1 (Dec 28, 2008)

It's like American Express, I never leave home without it. And to all of you that say you don't need it, I was told by an my Dad years ago. "I'd rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."


Eronningen;698111 said:


> Have many, never carry. I feel that if can just drive away, I'll drive away. If you pull a gun on someone you better be prepared to kill them, cause if you don't kill them they'll kill you after you pulled first. My take is just that. I would never pull a gun to scare someone and I think there is many that would use as a scare tactic. Pulling a gun puts you in a bad spot. JMO


My buddy thought that too. The crackhead shot him in back of the head while driving off. Walked up on him at a stoplight in broad daylight in traffic. He never seen him till he was at the window. Now he has to live the rest of his with a bullet stuck in his head. Thank God that he didn't die. He told me afterwards, "He wished to God I would have been with him so I could have popped the crackhead as soon as he pulled the gun out." By the way, if i feel mine or any of my families lives are in jepordy and you see my gun in my hand, your shot. Dead, end of story.


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## gary42095 (Jan 4, 2009)

i completely agree with tatood. wow i had a whole rant here and had to delete it it was just too long. its my right and my choice and i carry everywhere. dinner , movies , shopping and work. the lobster is not going to jump out of the tank at the supermarket and attack me... but that doesnt mean some guy didnt just fall off the deep end and go into mcdonalds shooting because his girl left him or something.
glock 27 goes everywhere ... except out for a night of drinking.......


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## randym99 (Oct 20, 2008)

WoW,Makes me glad to live where I do I guess.I would be more likely to be asked how to get somewhere or if I needed a hand than to be held up where I live.Have thought about these things though and always wondered what line would have to be crossed before I would really pull that trigger(if I was carrying)Guess if I or My loved ones were REally in danger I would have no choice.Sad to think it has to come to that in some places of the world.


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## Blazin (Mar 18, 2007)

I too always think of some nut popping out in the mall or what ever after he snapped from a traumatic experience in life. You hear about some nut shooting up McDonald's, church or a store, etc. I tell you what I wouldn't hesitate to take them out. He would wish I was the first one he shot, and shot dead!


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

randym99;701757 said:


> WoW,Makes me glad to live where I do I guess.I would be more likely to be asked how to get somewhere or if I needed a hand than to be held up where I live.Have thought about these things though and always wondered what line would have to be crossed before I would really pull that trigger(if I was carrying)Guess if I or My loved ones were REally in danger I would have no choice.Sad to think it has to come to that in some places of the world.


Don't kid yourself. It can and probably has happened where you live too... I'm from Eastern Canada (Cape Breton Island NS) and I remember several instances involving gun crime. Remember years ago the guy walked into McDonalds in Sydney Nova Scotia and killed everyone in the store and all of the workers with a shotgun? Had this happened in the States there would have been a good chance one of the patrons had a piece on them. The murderer would have been shot dead before taking all of those lives...

*Just remember, guns don't kill people... People kill people....*

And I tell you right now if someone broke into my house you bet your bottom dollar I would have one of my 8 guns loaded and ready within seconds. I'd gladly put a bullet between the eyes of anyone that attempted to harm my family. Being Canadian, I would end up doing time... With a smile on my face knowing I saved my family....


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Kinda off topic but, while on route to my next salt stop the other morning, I got passed by 15 cruisers. When I pulled into the property I realized they were all literally across the street from the one we take care of. They announced Torontos first homicide of the year a couple of hours later on the radio. Would I feel better carrying in that hood? Definitely. Its too bad we cant.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

And I tell you right now if someone broke into my house you bet your bottom dollar I would have one of my 8 guns loaded and ready within seconds. I'd gladly put a bullet between the eyes of anyone that attempted to harm my family. Being Canadian, I would end up doing time... With a smile on my face knowing I saved my family....[/QUOTE]

I would too. Except I'd make sure he'd have his hand curled around a piece with his finger on the trigger before the cops showed up.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

JohnnyRoyale;701983 said:


> Kinda off topic but, while on route to my next salt stop the other morning, I got passed by 15 cruisers. When I pulled into the property I realized they were all literally across the street from the one we take care of. They announced Torontos first homicide of the year a couple of hours later on the radio. Would I feel better carrying in that hood? Definitely. Its too bad we cant.


Actually you know you can carry in the truck Johnny. The weapon has to be covered so its not visible and ammo locked in a separate case. The gun itself doesn't need to be locked though as long as your with it or all your doors on the truck are locked. This is deemed as safe storage. During hunting season I've had my shotgun with me on some of my northern trips many times just in case I come up on some grouse or rabbit etc.


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## scitown (Dec 9, 2007)

archer39;697990 said:


> why would you get "tazed"?? you know you do have the right to carry. If you are a law abiding citizen and you carry you have no need to fear a law enforcement officer. Hell here in PA you don't even have to tell the LEO that you are carrying. Although i have never been stopped while carrying i have talked to many many LEO's and all of them have been very cool about private citizens carrying concealed.


In Mass your license to carry is on your profile when the police run your name. Plowing is one of the only times I am not carrying. I plow nice little suburban towns in a crap plow truck. I do have a couple 15/16 wrenches in the truck I bet that would work as a "equalizer". 1) I figure who would want my crappy plow truck.
2) Lack of sleep with a gun probably isn't a great idea.
3) Gun on hip while walking on customers property in crappy conditions not such a great idea.
 4) The best weapon I have ever seen is the big yellow thing mounted on the front of my truck. 
If you are going to carry more power to you. Everyone should exercise their rights to the fullest extent. Just not while Im plowing.


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## scitown (Dec 9, 2007)

JDiepstra;698622 said:


> Good post. Imagine how much lower the crime rate would be if more "non-criminals" legally carried guns... Hommie gonna rob a bank if the tellers all have shoulder holsters? How bout knocking off a 7-11 if the guy at the register has a glock on his belt? Not as likely.


When was the last time you heard of someone robbing a gun store in the middle of the day? In Mass they wear guns on their hips and have a whole big counter of guns in front of them.


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## Upper5percent (Dec 28, 2008)

*This guy used to carry...*


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## naturalgreen (Dec 6, 2008)

like he learned his lesson and isnt carrying any more


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## albhb3 (Dec 18, 2007)

see what you need to do is put a machine gun on the roof with a hatch to put up out of


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## naturalgreen (Dec 6, 2008)

mmmmmmm kill hatch


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## KL&M Snow Div. (Jan 2, 2009)

I have seen this topic come up a few times on LS too. Only thing I have to say is if you pull it you better plan on shooting it. And when you shoot it you'd better shoot to kill. Just my 02


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

I bet you can't guess. 

For those of you who ask why carry:

Why do you wear your seat belt?
It may help save my life in an accident.

Are you planning on getting in an accident?
No.

So why wear it if you're not planning on getting into an accident?
Because I can't predict what other people will do.

I teach carry classes on the side and I'm an active member of my local 2a organizations. If you'd like info on being able to legally carry in MN, feel free to send me a PM, I'll answer all questions to the best of my knowledge. :waving:


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

drivewaydoctor;702023 said:


> Actually you know you can carry in the truck Johnny. The weapon has to be covered so its not visible and ammo locked in a separate case. The gun itself doesn't need to be locked though as long as your with it or all your doors on the truck are locked. This is deemed as safe storage. During hunting season I've had my shotgun with me on some of my northern trips many times just in case I come up on some grouse or rabbit etc.


So keep a full mag or a speed loader for your revolver loaded and handy in a bio-safe (fingerprint reader). They open in a fraction of a second.


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

KL&M Snow Div.;702543 said:


> I have seen this topic come up a few times on LS too. Only thing I have to say is if you pull it you better plan on shooting it. And when you shoot it you'd better shoot to kill. Just my 02


This is what we were taught, don't pull it just to scare someone and if you do pull it plan on killing someone. Would I use it. If my life was in danger, without a doubt I would. I have only been close to pulling once, had a guy walk up on me behind a church in Pontiac MI. I could tell he wasn't the welcome wagon and when I told him to not come any closer he kept walking towards me. When he was about 20 feet from me, I started to reach for my 9mm that was in my waistband. He saw my hand go to my waistband and he stopped in a big hurry. Claims he was only looking for a job, sorry buddy not hiring now get on out of here.

Regards Mike


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## Deckscapes (Oct 24, 2006)

I agree with Tatood's dad...I would rather have a gun and never need it, as apposed to needing one and not having it...
I carry a .45 even in the suburbs of Denver because you never know.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

mnglocker;702679 said:


> So keep a full mag or a speed loader for your revolver loaded and handy in a bio-safe (fingerprint reader). They open in a fraction of a second.


I should have clarified. We can have shotguns and rifles in our vehicles as long as they are out of sight (covered) and ammo in separate locked case. Pistols however, we can not. The only place we are allowed to use our handguns is at firing ranges. To get the gun to the range we need to call our firearms office and request an ATT (Authorization to Transport). We are given a permit number of the ATT and need one each and everytime the gun leaves the house to go to the range. We can not make stops between our home and the range. We are not allowed to stop to pickup a buddy or to go to a store etc. As soon as we leave our home we must go directly to the range. No stops or transfers allowed.


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## JandA (Dec 17, 2008)

With the way things have happened at schools, I would carry at church too! These morons only look for places with alot of unarmed people.


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## scitown (Dec 9, 2007)

drivewaydoctor;702855 said:


> I should have clarified. We can have shotguns and rifles in our vehicles as long as they are out of sight (covered) and ammo in separate locked case. Pistols however, we can not. The only place we are allowed to use our handguns is at firing ranges. To get the gun to the range we need to call our firearms office and request an ATT (Authorization to Transport). We are given a permit number of the ATT and need one each and everytime the gun leaves the house to go to the range. We can not make stops between our home and the range. We are not allowed to stop to pickup a buddy or to go to a store etc. As soon as we leave our home we must go directly to the range. No stops or transfers allowed.


Wow, I thought Massachusetts was bad. I could never live that way. Are you allowed to defend yourself in your home?


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

scitown;702893 said:


> Wow, I thought Massachusetts was bad. I could never live that way. Are you allowed to defend yourself in your home?


No, regardless of how well we lockup our firearms if someone was to break into our home and steal our 2000 lb gun safe with guns in it we get an automatic 1 year in prison for unsafe storage. If someone broke in and attempted to rob us or attack us with a knife etc and we shot them we would go to prison for illegal use of a firearm and use of a weapon causing bodily harm. Depending on the judge we might get an attempted murder charge as well. In Canada we are NOT allowed to use deadly force which includes but is not limited to using a weapon that could potentially cause death. We get automatic and mandatory sentencing.

On the flip side sentencing here is very lax. A murderer will get sentenced to Life which is 20 years but can get parole at 6 years with good behavior. My buddy who is an undercover Toronto cop arrests the same crackheads with guns every week. They don't do time for selling crack or illegal gun possession. They legalized pot here. We can have a personal use amount of pot without a charge or conviction. Steroids are another thing that is legal here that is not in the States. We can use and have steroids (I use them) as long as we are not selling them. I know about 8 or 9 Toronto cops that are steroid users. A lot of our force uses them actually.

Our legal system here is very upside down.


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## rawdog (Feb 20, 2007)

IPLOWSNO;697982 said:


> wow i got it good where i live, i dont have a fear in the world i have a gas pedal that ll get me out of trouble, and thats only a ticket if you screw up, where your goin to jail? permit or not.
> 
> i can see it now, sir i pulled you over for speed, me i have a gun on meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee as im getin tazed lol ill pass on the bad boy status.imo


you dont go to jail..i was in a car with my friend (who has a permit) one night on the thruway and he was pulled over doin 80something in a 65. When the cop came up he told him he had a permit and the gun on him.

the cop got so preoccupied with checking the gun permit he didn't even give him a ticket. Not only that he acted like we were all best friends.


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## bigmike1289 (Aug 25, 2008)

were the hell are you living that a friend of yours carries to church.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

bigmike1289;702977 said:


> were the hell are you living that a friend of yours carries to church.


Only 9 states have silly laws restricting the right to carry at churches.


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## Going Commercial (Oct 15, 2008)

I have been carrying for 20yrs. I got an unrestricted permit at 18yrs old because of our family business. I have never had to use it (Thank God) but been in some scary situations where just opening my coat to show its presence was enough to make a threat walk. I take great pride in my right to bare arms in this country and an I am an avid hunter. I carry when snowplowing. I have accounts that I have to get out of the truck to shovel walks and feel safer while doing this in the night hrs. With a hard economy and difficult times of life, the bad can be brought out in people alot faster.( theft, muggings, murder, etc) I want to make it home safe to my wife and 2 little boys. As for those who disagree with this, I respect your opinions and hope you respect mine in return. The bottom line here is that we all want to return home from work safe!


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## BORIS (Oct 22, 2008)

i carry every where i go, even at church. there are people that would kill you in this country just because you go to church. they would have a surprise if they opened my church door.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

drivewaydoctor;702898 said:


> No, regardless of how well we lockup our firearms if someone was to break into our home and steal our 2000 lb gun safe with guns in it we get an automatic 1 year in prison for unsafe storage. If someone broke in and attempted to rob us or attack us with a knife etc and we shot them we would go to prison for illegal use of a firearm and use of a weapon causing bodily harm. Depending on the judge we might get an attempted murder charge as well. In Canada we are NOT allowed to use deadly force which includes but is not limited to using a weapon that could potentially cause death. We get automatic and mandatory sentencing.
> 
> On the flip side sentencing here is very lax. A murderer will get sentenced to Life which is 20 years but can get parole at 6 years with good behavior. My buddy who is an undercover Toronto cop arrests the same crackheads with guns every week. They don't do time for selling crack or illegal gun possession. They legalized pot here. We can have a personal use amount of pot without a charge or conviction. Steroids are another thing that is legal here that is not in the States. We can use and have steroids (I use them) as long as we are not selling them. I know about 8 or 9 Toronto cops that are steroid users. A lot of our force uses them actually.
> 
> Our legal system here is very upside down.


Steroids, what are you thinking, your not in high school anymore.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;703129 said:


> Steroids, what are you thinking, your not in high school anymore.


But, but, but all the cool kids use them!!!!   

Gotta love what steroids do, just take a look at Hulk Hogan.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;703186 said:


> Gotta love what steroids do, just take a look at Hulk Hogan.


No thanks, but I'll take a look at his daughter.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;703186 said:


> But, but, but all the cool kids use them!!!!
> 
> Gotta love what steroids do, just take a look at Hulk Hogan.


Nothing to do with coolness. Thats child stuff. And research their affects before blaming them on something. You'll be surprised at what your learn..


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

drivewaydoctor;703199 said:


> Nothing to do with coolness. Thats child stuff. And research their affects before blaming them on something. You'll be surprised at what your learn..


Alrighty, here's some results:

Commonly Reported Negative Effects:

Both Sexes:

* Increased risk of mood disturbances including mania and depression
* Increased risk of psychosis
* Increased risk of aggressive acts which may injure self or others
* Increased risk of cardiovascular disease
* Increased risk of liver disease and cancer
* Increased risk of kidney disease and cancer
* Risk of HIV and Hepatitis B & C from contaminated needles
* Acne
* Bad breath
* Decreased sex drive
* Baldness
* Water retention
* Muscle cramps
* Aching joints
* Increased risk of muscle tears
* Increased risk of tendon injuries
* Increased risk of nose bleeds
* Insomnia
* Decrease in immune system effectiveness
* Infertility

Men:

* Increased risk of prostate enlargement and cancer
* Decreased testicular size
* Gynecomastia (growth of breasts)

Women:

* Increased risk of cervical and endometrial cancer
* Increased risk of osteoporosis
* Irreversible enlargement of the clitoris
* Irreversible hoarsening and deepening of the voice
* Irreversible increase in facial and body hair
* Decreased breast size
* Amenorrhea
* Uterine atrophy

Children:

* Short Stature
* Premature ephiphyseal closure

Commonly Reported Positive Effects:

* Increased leanness / muscle definition
* Increased muscle mass / weight
* Increased strength
* Increased effectiveness of training
* Improved recovery rate
* Euphoria
* Increased aggressiveness
* Increased sex drive

Psychological Side Effects of Steroids

* edginess, impatience, paranoid feelings
* severe mood swings including depression
* obsession with body image, having to work out, and food
* angry and violent outbursts known as "roid rage"

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General Physical Side Effects of Steroids

* liver damage
* kidney damage
* increased blood pressure and cholesterol (risk for heart disease)
* depressed immune system (risk for infections)
* headache and stomach ache
* nosebleeds
* severe facial and body acne
* decreased joint flexibility

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Additional Physical Side Effects of Steroids
In men:

* breast enlargement
* shrunken testicles
* lowered sperm count
* increased sex drive
* decreased sexual performance - difficulty getting and maintaining erections

In women:

* growth of facial and body hair
* male pattern balding
* development of Adam's apple
* deepening of voice
* enlargement of clitoris
* abnormal or absent menstrual period
* infertility

In teens:

* stunted growth due to early closure of the growth centres in long bones
* severe acne

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Is It Worth the Risk? Get All the Facts...

* The side effects of steroids can be dangerous and permanent.
* Your genetic makeup has a major role to play in your body shape and size. That's a fact even steroids can't change.
* Anabolic steroids for the purpose of bodybuilding can only be obtained on the black market. Much of this supply is impure or unclean. Vials and needles are often shared.
* Injection of steroids means increased risk of AIDS, and other diseases such as hepatitis.

back to top

Positive Effects Of Steroids

July 18, 2008 by admin

The most common users of steroids are the men and women who are into muscle and body building, weightlifting and athletics. Anabolic steroids are the most popular steroids in use by these people. Anabolic steroids are synthetic substances that are basically composed of the ingredients related to the male sex hormones, testosterone, also called androgens. This hormone helps in the well being of a male as well as provides for healthy sexual activity. Anabolic steroids offer athletes, weight lifters and body builders an easier way out when it comes to making their muscle tissues grow and getting them bigger in a small span of time.

Some of the positive effects of steroid usage are that it can lead to leanness, endurance, muscle definition, aggressiveness, strength, motivation, muscle mass and a great sex drive. These positive effects of steroid usage are maximized and this gives body builders, athletes and weight lifters a sensation of confidence and happiness. Steroids also aid in reduction of body fat and the decrease of fatigue. Steroids also find application in medical situations.

Steroids used in body enhancement are used to treat delayed puberty, impotency, Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) and other such diseases. It is also strong in the treatment of anemia, as steroids increase RBC or Red Blood Cell production. Steroids are highly beneficial for people who suffer from osteoporosis and other such bone diseases by incrementing bone density. Illnesses like arthritis, brain injuries, asthma, blood disorders, asthma and some cancers are other diseases that steroids work against, in low dosages. These steroids do not lead to higher muscle formation, and serves its specific purpose of illness treatment alone. Steroids possess Vitamin D and the mineral calcium which is good for bones and the tissues that take care of repairing imbalances in a damaged system.

Steroids, whether anabolic or body enhancing are helpful nonetheless, and are drugs with great potential and benefits. Patients with sicknesses mentioned above can use steroids as a way out and they can act as a great therapeutic for them. Steroids also help those interested in building their body and improving their confidence. If steroids are used legally and in accordance with medical prescriptions, they sure can make a persons life better and save many lives! However, one must always remember to consult a certified practicing physician before they go ahead and try the steroids out for themselves. 
Mail this post

You're correct, I am surprised that anyone would use them unless they have a prescription and a medical necessity to. I have before, and they sucked, felt like crap and couldn't wait until the prescription was up.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

Most of that is bogus. Seen it before. Many of the issues is describes relates to abuse not use. Totally different.

Go rent the movie Bigger Stronger Faster (or download it) for a good perspective. 

Cigarette and Alcohol cause more deaths than Steroids which is a big number considering there has never been a proven case where steroids were directly related to the cause of death. Yet I wonder how many here smoke and drink?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

drivewaydoctor;703223 said:


> Most of that is bogus. Seen it before. Many of the issues is describes relates to abuse not use. Totally different.
> 
> Go rent the movie Bigger Stronger Faster (or download it) for a good perspective.
> 
> Cigarette and Alcohol cause more deaths than Steroids which is a big number considering there has never been a proven case where steroids were directly related to the cause of death. Yet I wonder how many here smoke and drink?


OK, fine, show me info that is not bogus. I'm open-minded, about some things.

Didn't say they caused death, either.

I drink, don't smoke though.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Seems safe to me. I think not, enough sh!!t in the air, water, and food I ingest. Don't need to purposefully add more.


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;703226 said:


> OK, fine, show me info that is not bogus. I'm open-minded, about some things.
> 
> Didn't say they caused death, either.
> 
> I drink, don't smoke though.


I'm a fact and many guys I know are a fact bud. I have been a USER (not abuser) for many years. I am extremely healthy in every aspect. I have regular bloodwork done as my doctor is very well informed of what I am on. All of my reports always come back better than those that do not take them. I am confident in myself (they boost confidence) and have amazing endurance. I can outlast most men in any physical labor. I am in pretty good physical shape and three times stronger than I even look. I think use and abuse is the key words in anything. You can have one drink per day and probably never have an issue but if you drink a 40oz every day you will probably be short lived. Its just the way it is...

Majority of the crap you see about steroids comes from the US Government and Media. Majority of the time the information comes from a source that does not know anything about the use of the drugs. Grant it, some steroids are dangerous but not AAS such as Testosterone. Completely harmless. Thats why they are legal here. No proven facts to prove they are dangerous. Not even by the medical industry.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Holy thread drift batman! Let's get back to guns and trucks. They're more fun to play with any way.


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## nosnownogo (Feb 29, 2008)

*not totaly true*



drivewaydoctor;702898 said:


> No, regardless of how well we lockup our firearms if someone was to break into our home and steal our 2000 lb gun safe with guns in it we get an automatic 1 year in prison for unsafe storage. If someone broke in and attempted to rob us or attack us with a knife etc and we shot them we would go to prison for illegal use of a firearm and use of a weapon causing bodily harm. Depending on the judge we might get an attempted murder charge as well. In Canada we are NOT allowed to use deadly force which includes but is not limited to using a weapon that could potentially cause death. We get automatic and mandatory sentencing.
> 
> Our legal system here is very upside down.


 What about Basil Parasiris in Brossard Quebec in 2007 . 
Killed a cop and wonded a second , he walked on those those charges but will most likely do time for the unregistered gun he used.

google his name he had three charges against him


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

Even though I can't legally buy any guns, and I obviously can't get a CCW yet (MI law, 18 for knife CCW [I think] 21 for handgun), which makes sense)

Anyways, when I'm 21 I fully intend on taking a CCW Pistol course, then in due course, purchasing a small .380 or 9 mm and will always carry. If I'm a plower then too, I'll carry it while I'm plowing.

I don't live in a particularly "bad" area, but I like the idea of being armed, especially since most kinds of fighting (Like USMC Close Combat) are intended to create space and time between you and your opponent in which to get a weapon. So, I'll always be armed. Just incase. I fully believe in the "Don't take away guns, but give everyone a gun to reduce crime"


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

nosnownogo;703281 said:


> What about Basil Parasiris in Brossard Quebec in 2007 .
> Killed a cop and wonded a second , he walked on those those charges but will most likely do time for the unregistered gun he used.
> 
> google his name he had three charges against him


Good point. This is another fine example of our legal system that doesn't work.

I firmly believe in the "Eye for an eye" theory. We should instate the death penalty and when proven a murderer you get the chair... Hell, lets hang em in a public square for all I care and we'll stone em while they dangle.

About the only thing our law system did right here in Ontario is the new traffic law. If your caught doing 50km over the speed limit you lose your vehicle for one week and your license. A little icing on that cake is the $10,000 fine that comes with it.... In Ontario *677 on your cell dials the OPP (like American state troopers) and I have assisted in the arrest of dozens of people doing 50+ over the speed limit.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

mnglocker;703246 said:


> Holy thread drift batman! Let's get back to guns and trucks. They're more fun to play with any way.


OK then, I carry mine with me all the time. xysport xysport

Seriously, will be getting a CCW soon, just have to break it to my beautiful bride.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

drivewaydoctor;703308 said:


> Good point. This is another fine example of our legal system that doesn't work.
> 
> I firmly believe in the "Eye for an eye" theory. We should instate the death penalty and when proven a murderer you get the chair... Hell, lets hang em in a public square for all I care and we'll stone em while they dangle.
> 
> About the only thing our law system did right here in Ontario is the new traffic law. If your caught doing 50km over the speed limit you lose your vehicle for one week and your license. A little icing on that cake is the $10,000 fine that comes with it.... In Ontario *677 on your cell dials the OPP (like American state troopers) and I have assisted in the arrest of dozens of people doing 50+ over the speed limit.


Sure, great law, because we all know that speed kills, right?


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;703311 said:


> OK then, I carry my 'weapon' with me all the time. xysport xysport
> 
> Seriously, will be getting a CCW soon, just have to break it to my beautiful bride.


Take her to the class and get her to carry one too.  You'd be supprised, but most women I've encountered really like the fact that I carry. They feel safer.


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

drivewaydoctor;703308 said:


> Good point. This is another fine example of our legal system that doesn't work.
> 
> I firmly believe in the "Eye for an eye" theory. We should instate the death penalty and when proven a murderer you get the chair... Hell, lets hang em in a public square for all I care and we'll stone em while they dangle.
> 
> About the only thing our law system did right here in Ontario is the new traffic law. If your caught doing 50km over the speed limit you lose your vehicle for one week and your license. A little icing on that cake is the $10,000 fine that comes with it.... In Ontario *677 on your cell dials the OPP (like American state troopers) and I have assisted in the arrest of dozens of people doing 50+ over the speed limit.


That makes sense and sounds messed up at the same time. I understand the fine and license rovoking and/or jail time, but impounding sounds a little harsh. ::shrug:: maybe it's just 'cause I'm young and dumb.

and, I won't lie, I'm glad the US laws are the way they are. Though our court system sucks for wrongful traffic tickets...ussmileyflag


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;703312 said:


> Sure, great law, because we all know that speed kills, right?


Speed doesn't kill? Your joking right?

We have stupid idiots driving Honda Civics doing 160kmph on our highways (100km speed limit) during a snow storm... Morons weaving in and out of traffic doing double the speed limit forcing people off the road etc... Trust me, Speed does kill.....


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

Krieger91;703335 said:


> That makes sense and sounds messed up at the same time. I understand the fine and license rovoking and/or jail time, but impounding sounds a little harsh. ::shrug:: maybe it's just 'cause I'm young and dumb.
> 
> and, I won't lie, I'm glad the US laws are the way they are. Though our court system sucks for wrongful traffic tickets...ussmileyflag


I wish I could find the news article. When they first started this law here they call "street racing" they were crushing the cars with a bulldozer. Now that was harsh....

And yes, I like the states... I have dual citizenship and my wife is American. She was US Army actually... Brother still is in Army. Served in Iraq twice now and going back again next month...


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## illiniplower (Aug 22, 2008)

mnglocker;703327 said:


> Take her to the class and get her to carry one too.  You'd be supprised, but most women I've encountered really like the fact that I carry. They feel safer.


Have to agree my wife says she sleeps better at night when I have mine sitting next to me on center console


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

drivewaydoctor;703342 said:


> I wish I could find the news article. When they first started this law here they call "street racing" they were crushing the cars with a bulldozer. Now that was harsh....
> 
> And yes, I like the states... I have dual citizenship and my wife is American. She was US Army actually... Brother still is in Army. Served in Iraq twice now and going back again next month...


It makes a little more sense now. I ran the conversion rates, and it makes more sense for them to be that severe. Impounding, not destroying. Especially if people are driving like that.

That's a bummer. I know a number of guys, mostly Marines, who have gone over, numerous times. :salute: I give him one of those, along with every other sailor, airmen, soldier, and Marine who has served overseas.



illiniplower said:


> Have to agree my wife says she sleeps better at night when I have mine sitting next to me on center console


I know alot of people like that. Hell, I feel safer sleeping when I have a weapon nearby. Most call me paranoid, but I usually sleep with a knife within reach...


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## Milwaukee (Dec 28, 2007)

Why not electric stun? it won't kill but more safe than gun.


Just want question.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Milwaukee;703797 said:


> Why not electric stun? it won't kill but *more safe than gun*.
> 
> Just want question.


Only safer for the bad guy, it's more of a hazard to the victim (you).

As soon as you quit holding the button the perp gets right back up. I for one don't want to to be closer than necessary and I sure as hell don't want to piss off someone hell bent on killing me/causing great bodily harm without stopping the attack. Tasers and stun guns are more or less control/compliance tools for law enforcement. They make piss poor personal defense tools.

Let's say the perp has a knife do you really want to be wrangling with him up close and personal?


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## [email protected] (Nov 2, 2008)

I am legal to carry concealed in NY/NJ working on getting in R.I. now as my father is also... I don't though most of the time..... I find it causes a lot more problems then it's worth, don't get me wrong if you are in areas where your safety is compromised and it's legal... feel free... But for me I just stayed local to my house and picked up plenty of accounts with 5 miles of my house (62 total, but over 30 was on one long cul-d-sac), lets just say safety wasn't my concern ever. Slipping and falling was usually my biggest...


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

[email protected];704026 said:


> I am legal to carry concealed in NY/NJ working on getting in R.I. now as my father is also... I don't though most of the time..... I find it causes a lot more problems then it's worth, don't get me wrong if you are in areas where your safety is compromised and it's legal... feel free... But for me I just stayed local to my house and picked up plenty of accounts with 5 miles of my house (62 total, but over 30 was on one long cul-d-sac), lets just say safety wasn't my concern ever. Slipping and falling was usually my biggest...


Living in close proximity to two other state's that also have _very_ restrictive gun laws would make it a pain in the arse to carry. I'm actually dumbfounded that you managed to get a PTC in NJ. When I think about the crap the folks in the New England (except Vermont) have to deal with as far as gun laws go, I'm glad to be in MN.


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## [email protected] (Nov 2, 2008)

My father has been a gun dealer for over 40 years... Had a place in NYC untill about 15 years ago,and we lived in NJ... Everybody in my family is legal to carry due to the nature of our family business (mother ,father, my 4 sisters, and myself)and the amounts of money daily, (not anymore though, Dad's got quite sick a few years ago and is now handicapped)... Thats the only way it happened


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

drivewaydoctor;703338 said:


> Speed doesn't kill? Your joking right?
> 
> We have stupid idiots driving Honda Civics doing 160kmph on our highways (100km speed limit) during a snow storm... Morons weaving in and out of traffic doing double the speed limit forcing people off the road etc... Trust me, Speed does kill.....


Ever flown in an airplane?


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

drivewaydoctor;702023 said:


> Actually you know you can carry in the truck Johnny. The weapon has to be covered so its not visible and ammo locked in a separate case. The gun itself doesn't need to be locked though as long as your with it or all your doors on the truck are locked. This is deemed as safe storage. .


I knew that.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Milwaukee;703797 said:


> Why not electric stun? it won't kill but more safe than gun.
> 
> Just want question.


You want a question or you want an answer?

Besides not being safe for the person carrying it, they are illegal for anyone other than an LEO to carry in MI and dead men tell no tales.

Or:

If the bad guy is dead, there's only one side to the story.

Or:

Let's save the judicial system and prison system some money.

There's 3 questions for you mil.


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## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

Well guys im glad my thread got so much feed back and im glad im not the only person that feels that you can trust anyone any more. Also i fingered id throw another log on the fire how do you guys feel about open carry?


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

04red2500;705219 said:


> Well guys im glad my thread got so much feed back and im glad im not the only person that feels that you can trust anyone any more. Also i fingered id throw another log on the fire how do you guys feel about open carry?


I OC about 90% of the time when the weather is nice.


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

I like the idea of OC. Some people (ie my dad) thinks that would make you a target anywhere where you'd really need the protection.

I however see it is a deterrent. If I had the choice, I'd OC over CC


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Krieger91;705377 said:


> I like the idea of OC. Some people (ie my dad) thinks that would make you a target anywhere where you'd really need the protection.
> 
> I however see it is a deterrent. If I had the choice, I'd OC over CC


The key is to OC when and where appropriate.

Ask your dad to name one time that a non-LEO open carrying a side arm has been the first one shot or had their gun grabbed. (it hasn't been documented in the US)

If your dad thinks it will draw undo attention it won't either. I was asked about it 3 times last summer.
* Once at the JD dealer in town, parts guy thought he'd make some smart comment and try to insult me at the same time. I retorqued with the "seat belt" question. It shut him up instantly, he looked like a damned fool infront of the sales manager, 2 customers and the other parts guy. He's never gave me crap since.

* Once at the grocery store. The bag boy asked if it was a glock and what caliber, so I told him, and the cashier interupted to mention her husband just bought the same gun and wanted a ccw license. I corrected her and told her MN has no requirement to conceal, it's a just a permit to carry; open/concealed handgun/long gun. The guy behind me nodded and said "he's right" ( I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one packing a heater in line)

*Then at the liquor store, the clerk asked if it was a taser. I told her "no, it's a real gun". She laughed and asked "do you really think you'll need that in here" I laughed and told her a liquor store was one of the highest risk jobs in the country as far as getting robbed/shot ect... She had a dumb-founded look on her face after that. Maybe common sense penetrated her skull that night.

Otherwise, that's about all the interaction I've had over OCing.


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

mnglocker;705399 said:


> The key is to OC when and where appropriate.
> 
> Ask your dad to name one time that a non-LEO open carrying a side arm has been the first one shot or had their gun grabbed. (it hasn't been documented in the US)
> 
> ...


I agree it's all about when and where.

He's...strange, my dad. He worked in Detroit (usually in not so great parts of town) for years, he was robbed at gun point 2 or 3 times and yet still refused to carry the .38 revolver he had saying he'd be a "bigger target"

Also, I was told by a gun store owner that MI is a closed carry state, and that we can't OC. Which seems like a bunch of BS thanks to the 2nd Amendment. I don't believe what he said was true. Any Michigan guys know the answer to that?


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Krieger91;705587 said:


> Also, I was told by a gun store owner that MI is a closed carry state, *and that we can't OC.*  Which seems like a bunch of BS thanks to the 2nd Amendment. I don't believe what he said was true. Any Michigan guys know the answer to that?


He is wrong, In Michigan it isn't illegal, but it's not mentioned as being legal either. Local ordinances may prohibit OC, or perhaps you may be charged with "disturbing the peace". That all depends on whether or not the state has preemtion regarding 2a issues.

Look here for more info: http://opencarry.org/mi.html


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## drivewaydoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

04red2500;705219 said:


> how do you guys feel about open carry?


Oh hell yeah!!! The only requirement I would insist on is that the gun's holster have a locking strap to make it harder for the gun to be pulled from the holster by a perpetrator.

I strongly believe that a criminal is less likely to mug, assault or rap a victim that is advertising they have a forehead hole maker on their side.

Man I wish we could get all your gun tootin Americans would come on up to Canada and help us protest our rights to carry... lol


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## Bandit (Jan 5, 2005)

rawdog;702966 said:


> you dont go to jail..i was in a car with my friend (who has a permit) one night on the thruway and he was pulled over doin 80something in a 65. When the cop came up he told him he had a permit and the gun on him.
> 
> the cop got so preoccupied with checking the gun permit he didn't even give him a ticket. Not only that he acted like we were all best friends.


 I had the same thing happen to Me in Mass, Pulled over for speeding on Rt. 495 , informed the trooper I was carrying ( as You should ) , He got so involved checking My LTC and " eyeballing " inside the vehicle , He never gave Me a Ticket or a Warning . 
Bob


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## 80sturgisrider (Dec 23, 2008)

Always at night. During the day, I haven't. We have a few areas that are a bit shady. Never had a problem so far and I would like to keep it that way. As with most of us on here, when I am out, I am by myself. The cold wont keep thugs in the house. It is legal here as long as you have your license ON YOU!! Get caught without the license and that is your a$$.


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## jlouki01 (Sep 21, 2006)

I carry everywhere I go for the most part. However when plowing my gun is comparable to my gloves... never leave home without them when plowing. 

I had a guy roll up on me in a dark parking lot one night in a very nice part of town and pin me behind my truck. Didn't get out just set there looking at me.. very weird deal. None the less I moved my coat aside and upholstered my pistol. The dude burned out of there never to be seen again. It was 3am.. very dark.. only my strobe on, loading the salt hopper when he pulled up. Been spooked every since.


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

mnglocker;705597 said:


> He is wrong, In Michigan it isn't illegal, but it's not mentioned as being legal either. Local ordinances may prohibit OC, or perhaps you may be charged with "disturbing the peace". That all depends on whether or not the state has preemtion regarding 2a issues.
> 
> Look here for more info: http://opencarry.org/mi.html


OK, thanks for the link.



jlouki01 said:


> I carry everywhere I go for the most part. However when plowing my gun is comparable to my gloves... never leave home without them when plowing.
> 
> I had a guy roll up on me in a dark parking lot one night in a very nice part of town and pin me behind my truck. Didn't get out just set there looking at me.. very weird deal. None the less I moved my coat aside and upholstered my pistol. The dude burned out of there never to be seen again. It was 3am.. very dark.. only my strobe on, loading the salt hopper when he pulled up. Been spooked every since.


I agree with you that a gun (or in my case my pocket knife) are like your gloves.

I'm gonna guess the gun saved you a real hell of a night. I'd say spooked is a good trade-off as opposed to be hurt or killed.


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## WINTERGROUP (Dec 10, 2004)

Always, i was in hartford ct, 2 storms ago, a shoot out started across the street from the plaza where i was plowing about 6 shots. I drove around the back of the building for cover until i heard sirens. 

It's crazy that the plow guy's have to worry. 

We also sweep, all work is done between 10pm and 5 am, working behind plazas in new haven, hartford, new britain, yea, i'am packin'

hk usp, .45 acp 230 gr. Black tallons


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## artic429 (Feb 20, 2008)

Out here in "gods country" we carry guns for other reasons...... Crime rate is low other than a few misguided punks that think they are gangbangers in the cornfields but they usually have to be home somewhat early so they dont miss supper and get grounded.... we need the guns for the occasional stray long legged coyote(deer) that might jump out at you at the last second..... hate to see a good meal run away from you!!!!


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

WINTERGROUP;712594 said:


> Always, i was in hartford ct, 2 storms ago, a shoot out started across the street from the plaza where i was plowing about 6 shots. I drove around the back of the building for cover until i heard sirens.
> 
> It's crazy that the plow guy's have to worry.
> 
> ...


Dang man, 230 grain .45's? That's a pretty big bullet.

Though that's what I aim to carry...a .45.

That's scary stuff, and you're right. It's bad when even the plow guy has to be worried


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

I wasn't plowing last night, however I checked up on the family business last night and came across a B&E in progress at a neighboring business. I called the cops, acted as a good wittness and fourtunately didn't have to use my gun as the perp approached my truck. The sound of my pissed off dog did the trick to make him obey the command to stop, turn around and walk back.


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## sp6x6 (Jan 14, 2009)

I live in MT, everybody has a gun in their gun rack, I went in to invoice a new client, they had a Beretta sitting on the end table. I said nice piece Dude.


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## Haytoes (Jan 14, 2009)

Scumbags are out at all hours, and they will kill or beat you for $5. If you think your little town in the middle of nowhere is safe think again, scumbags travel. They should think about it, If I had money i wouldnt be out at 3 am plowing snow, someone would be doing it for me........


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## [email protected] (Nov 2, 2008)

ya know I am all for the right to bear arms. (check my previous post in this thread) but it never dawned on me that so many do carry with them when they go out. It opened my eyes quite a bit and makes me want to reopen my father's store and sell to a bunch of plow guys....lol... Really though I never plowed anywhere that I wasn't comfortable and really only did driveways...No complexes or lots behind buildings....


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## MAR4CARS (Oct 6, 2005)

Ive had my permit since i was 18.Ive left my house and forgot my girlfriend at home but never forget to grab my H & K Subcompact Blue .45.. 3 times i've had to pull it out for legitimate reasons but pulling it out alone prevented the need to use it.If i had to i would have shot.Two times that i did not carry i was in situations that i regretted i was not armed.


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

I honestly wish we here in Michigan could get pistols and CCWs at 18. I'm pretty sure you can get a CCW at 18, but you can't get the permit to buy a handgun until you're 21.


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## 02f250superduty (Oct 1, 2008)

I carry whether I am plowing or not. It is illegal hear but they have to have probable cause to search the vehicle.


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## stumpslawncare (Dec 19, 2006)

You bet!! My weapon goes wherever I go. Of course I work in Law enforecement and have made a few enemies along the way too I guess.


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## Danhoe (Oct 15, 2007)

Never leave home with out it. Dan


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## DERBYDON (Dec 3, 2004)

Pair of matching Colt Combat Commanders, 45 ACP, never leave home without em! Oh, and don't forget the concealed carry permit.


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## Sharp Charge (Jan 3, 2008)

Krieger91;715501 said:


> I honestly wish we here in Michigan could get pistols and CCWs at 18. I'm pretty sure you can get a CCW at 18, but you can't get the permit to buy a handgun until you're 21.


CCW goes hand in hand with the federal handgun laws, need to be 21. I've been licensed in multiple states as I've moved around, so far, never needed to use it.


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## Dailylc (Feb 12, 2006)

This is now my new weapon of choice while out in the truck. I'm the jury and this is "The Judge"
http://www.taurususa.com/video/taurus-theJudge-video.cfm
Ain't nobody walking away from this.

James


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## gary42095 (Jan 4, 2009)

Dailylc;743354 said:


> This is now my new weapon of choice while out in the truck. I'm the jury and this is "The Judge"
> http://www.taurususa.com/video/taurus-theJudge-video.cfm
> Ain't nobody walking away from this.
> 
> James


i think we should all get one of these... great for home defense...


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

tymusicWhen I was trucking in the USA or Canada, not allowed to have weapons in the truck, However 2 fireextinguishers and a heavy bar for securing equipment was always in the truck at the ready. I remember one time the boss got upset with me when a pickup was delayed till the next day that I drove out of the industrial area of Chicago to park overnite at a secured truck stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 He s the same guy who told me "just leave the truck open" YEAH RIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 24v6spd (Jan 18, 2009)

Standard equipment for me when plowing. Out in the middle of the night you are a prime target for criminals.


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## nhpatriot (Dec 9, 2007)

No need to carry here while plowing. Definitely lock and load when you go around to collect on bills though!


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## tgumby4 (Jan 11, 2006)

I never used to carry my weapon since I live in a small university town of about 50K, but one night while on my route I passed by a house with lots of police around it. Come to find out the next day a college student was stabbed to death after an argument over a snowball battle. Crime can happen anywhere any time. I never leave home without my pistol since. I hope I never have to use my pistol to defend myself but that's no reason not to carry it.


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

Sharp Charge;743243 said:


> CCW goes hand in hand with the federal handgun laws, need to be 21. I've been licensed in multiple states as I've moved around, so far, never needed to use it.


I know that you can't get a pistol CCW until 21. I'm not sure on a bladed CCW permit age, though. I was under the impression you could get a CCW to carry a knife at 18.

If I didn't say it before, after I'm 21, I'll be packing a Springfield XD in .45 ACP. Short of that, it'll be a Taurus or Springfield 1911 in .45 ACP.

By the way, I love the Taurus somebody posted about. Able to take .45 Long Colt or .410 shotgun shells. Amazing idea, in my opinion. You can alternate slugs with .410 buckshot or birdshot.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Dailylc;743354 said:


> This is now my new weapon of choice while out in the truck. I'm the jury and this is "The Judge"
> http://www.taurususa.com/video/taurus-theJudge-video.cfm
> Ain't nobody walking away from this.
> 
> James


Save the birdshot for the birds. A shotshell is designed to be first from a 18-30' barrel, not a 3-5". The velocity drop and low weight/inertia of the shot will make for only about 1-1.5" of penetration in ballistic gel. The FBI standard for defensive weapons is 12" in gel.

However, it does look like a fun S&G gun. (!#%'s & Giggles)



Sharp Charge;743243 said:


> *CCW goes hand in hand with the federal handgun laws, need to be 21.* I've been licensed in multiple states as I've moved around, so far, never needed to use it.


Actually it doesn't. It's up to the states. Indiana for example will issue a CCW Permit at age 18. Montana doesn't even require a permit outside if city limits (deffinition of a city is 100,000 or more in populus) for 14+ y/o and that's open or concealed.


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## steve001hsd (Dec 24, 2008)

Never leave home without it. I carry my 1911 everywhere I go except where its not allowed by law.


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## mmaddox (Dec 13, 2006)

Actually it doesn't. It's up to the states. Indiana for example will issue a CCW Permit at age 18. Montana doesn't even require a permit outside if city limits (deffinition of a city is 100,000 or more in populus) for 14+ y/o and that's open or concealed.[/QUOTE]

Correct, Indiana issues permits at 18 y.o., can't buy the firearms, but can carry. BTW, it looks like Montana is well on the way to no permits, It appears that others are as well. Even Illinois is making some progress on permits.


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## CARDOCTOR (Nov 29, 2002)

when i leave the house gloves. hat . sig arms dont want to be the first plow guy shot to death
rather be judge by 12 than buried buy 7

JR


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## COLOFIREMAN (Jan 18, 2009)

Guess I'm late to post oin this thread but yes, being able to carry in all 50-states, I carry all the time. Springfield ACP .45 5" comp barrel in the cab and a Kel-Tec .380 on my ankle. I don't care about the balistics I like the thumping power of a .45 ACP. If they get up after a 950 FPS hydra-stock, run


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

COLOFIREMAN;751014 said:


> Guess I'm late to post oin this thread but yes, being able to carry in all 50-states, I carry all the time. Springfield ACP .45 5" comp barrel in the cab and a Kel-Tec .380 on my ankle. I don't care about the balistics I like the thumping power of a .45 ACP. If they get up after a 950 FPS hydra-stock, run


Wow, .45 Hyra-shocks? That's a beastie round.

I don't know about Michigan. Something I've been meaning to look up, I've heard different things from every person I've asked between it being 18 and 21. I know you can't buy until 21, but perhaps you can carry at 18?"


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## brunosplace (Dec 30, 2004)

Krieger91;751055 said:


> Wow, .45 Hyra-shocks? That's a beastie round.
> 
> I don't know about Michigan. Something I've been meaning to look up, I've heard different things from every person I've asked between it being 18 and 21. I know you can't buy until 21, but perhaps you can carry at 18?"


From the Michigan State Police website :

Concealed Pistol License Requirements

A. State Requirements

Applicants for a Michigan Concealed Pistol License must:

1. Be at least 21 years of age

2. Be a citizen of the United States or an alien lawfully admitted into the United States

3. Be a resident of the State of Michigan for at least 6 months prior to application. An applicant is a state resident if one of the following applies

********

Edited for length, to read the rest of the requirements.... http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10926--,00.html


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## brunosplace (Dec 30, 2004)

Krieger91;744574 said:


> I know that you can't get a pistol CCW until 21. I'm not sure on a bladed CCW permit age, though. I was under the impression you could get a CCW to carry a knife at 18.


Michigan has no permit for an edged weapon, only a CPL (*C*oncealed *P*istol *L*icense). There is no provision in Michigan law regarding the licensed carry of any weapon other than a pistol.

P.S. 
Under Michigan law CCW refers to the criminal charge of carrying an unlicensed (illegal) concealed weapon, it is not a license to carry. Therefore you could get a CCW (charge) at any age, if you are carrying illegally.


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## COLOFIREMAN (Jan 18, 2009)

All states are a little different but here in Colorado one can "open carry" while hunting, fishing, other such outside activities, anywhere except within the city limits over the age of 18. Over 21 a person can carry open anywhere except Devner.

As far as knifes, nothing concealed longer than 3.75 measured inches. Anything bigger and it follows the same rules as a pistol.


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## Ozone (Dec 5, 2003)

When seconds count, the Police are minutes away. 

I carry my Springfield XD 9 subcompact most of the time...even while plowing. 

We here in Pa. can "open carry" or "conceal carry". 

Criminals don't take a break while it's snowing. There is a competitive edge with having snow on the ground, to help increase response times by the Police.


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## Butcher (Sep 30, 2008)

A good web site to find info is USACARRY.COM


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## yardatwork (Jan 21, 2009)

The only thing I carry is a Redbull or Monster Energy drink. With all that energy and some shovels who needs a gun!?


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

yardatwork;751428 said:


> The only thing I carry is a Redbull or Monster Energy drink. With all that energy and some shovels who needs a gun!?


Don't bring a shovel to a gun fight.

Being a victim is your own stupid perogative, enjoy it.


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## Easy (Jan 21, 2007)

Don't know if this was posted, but please be aware that it has started!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/blairholt.asp
Don


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## 04red2500 (Dec 21, 2007)

^ THATS SOME SCARY SH*T


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm

My choice is my Sig 229, HK USPc 45, or my Para PXT LDA Carry.

The FACT is licensed firearm owners don't commit crimes. Taking the guns off the street would result in only criminals owning firearms.

I would bet everything i own that i would not be the victim of a violent crime, however i will not bet my life, or the lives of those i love.

God speed gentleman. To carry is truly a noble characteristic.


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## SportyCS (Mar 28, 2004)

I guess I got lucky. I was in a "bad" part of KC once and I had some people throw snow balls at me as I drove by going about 30. I know its not bullets, but when I realized what was happening...with the 'right' people it could of been bad. But when I look back on it, I say to myself "Damn! it was sloppy snow, I could have dropped my plow on them" and then say "yeah who has the bigger snow ball?"


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## Krieger91 (Feb 7, 2008)

cjasonbr;760714 said:


> The FACT is licensed firearm owners don't commit crimes. Taking the guns off the street would result in only criminals owning firearms.


You got that right. As I said previously, in my opinion, if you give EVERYONE a gun and train them how to use it, that would end crime. Not taking away the guns from law-abiding citizens.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

Krieger91;760757 said:


> You got that right. As I said previously, in my opinion, if you give EVERYONE a gun and train them how to use it, that would end crime. Not taking away the guns from law-abiding citizens.


A-men! .


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

Well I just looked into the laws here in illinois and I may as well just not buy a gun!. I have had a FOID card (Firearm Owners Identification Card) since I turned 21 but never got around to buying a gun yet (9 years LATER, lol). I went to the gun store the other day to renew my FOID and decided I was finally going to buy a pistol. I just looked into the laws here for carry, well, what BS. Only LEO or politians can carry (That sounds even more dangerous considering our polititans!), NO EXCEPTIONS. The firearm must be kept in a locked case in the trunk and the ammo must be in a seperate locked case and away from the the firearm. Looks like the only reason to own a firearm is for target practice, which I will be good at here soon!


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

stroker79;760891 said:


> Well I just looked into the laws here in illinois and I may as well just not buy a gun!. I have had a FOID card (Firearm Owners Identification Card) since I turned 21 but never got around to buying a gun yet (9 years LATER, lol). I went to the gun store the other day to renew my FOID and decided I was finally going to buy a pistol. I just looked into the laws here for carry, well, what BS. Only LEO or politians can carry (That sounds even more dangerous considering our polititans!), NO EXCEPTIONS. The firearm must be kept in a locked case in the trunk and the ammo must be in a seperate locked case and away from the the firearm. Looks like the only reason to own a firearm is for target practice, which I will be good at here soon!


There's some hope coming up in your state legislature:



> http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...5?OpenDocument
> Illinois panel OK's concealed-carry gun law
> Kari Andren
> POST-DISPATCH SPRINGFIELD BUREAU
> ...


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

Nice! Its about time that Illinois get with the program.


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## COLOFIREMAN (Jan 18, 2009)

The only reason law makers are doing this is for votes, plan and simple. No matter what law they pass it will not change the homicide rate of any city, only the home invasion and robbery rate. I just want to know what they are going to do about those that have gun already.


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## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

Yeah, IL really has their sh!t together. Twice as many Americans being murdered there than killed in Iraq.
Their firearm laws work great. 
http://www.citizensugar.com/1919267


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

thats cause you dont get caught here! IE Drew Peterson..............


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

IL does have whats called a "6 second law"........not sure about the excact details, or where to find it.....I was discuusing this the other day with our local states attorney, and it consists of carrying the gun in a state certified fanny pack of some kind. An auto - gun and loaded clip, but clip cant be in gun, but I think next to gun in fanny pack?.......Revolver - speed loader loaded in pack next to gun? Not sure about these details, but I do know for a FACT, there is a 6 second law for carrying....................I own guns, and I support gun rightsussmileyflag


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## Gear_Head (Apr 29, 2009)

stroker79;760891 said:


> The firearm must be kept in a locked case in the trunk and the ammo must be in a seperate locked case and away from the the firearm. Looks like the only reason to own a firearm is for target practice, which I will be good at here soon!


This is very much incorrect. I have been a LEO in Illinois for the last 8 years. I will provide any documentation on here that you need so all can rest assured I am giving the most up to date and correct info possible. I usually don't let a forum know my profession, but I think it is important for all to know the laws and try to help those get around our ******** states B.S. laws.

You can not carry a loaded gun in your car, but you CAN have the firearm in the vehicle right next to you. The key is it has to be unloaded and in a case )of some sort). The Supreme court just decided that the law is not specific enough as to what constitutes a case and a console does work as a case, as long as it is still UNLOADED. The magazine can be loaded and next to the weapon, just not in it. I know this is not as desirable as the LEO's have it, but it is getting close.

if you have any questions or want the documentation, don't hesitate to ask.


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## Gear_Head (Apr 29, 2009)

snocrete;784052 said:


> IL does have whats called a "6 second law"........not sure about the excact details, or where to find it.....I was discuusing this the other day with our local states attorney, and it consists of carrying the gun in a state certified fanny pack of some kind. An auto - gun and loaded clip, but clip cant be in gun, but I think next to gun in fanny pack?.......Revolver - speed loader loaded in pack next to gun? Not sure about these details, but I do know for a FACT, there is a 6 second law for carrying....................I own guns, and I support gun rightsussmileyflag


not called the 6 -second gun law. Maybe somebody coined this catchy phrase, but the law you want is in the same as the guy I quoted above. It is in the UUW statue in the Compiled Statutes. The fanny pack now comes in after the recent rulings of the above mentioned supreme court case.


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## Skid Mark (Feb 6, 2009)

wesportyeah i carry my two gunswesportnever leave home without them!wesport


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Gear_Head;784086 said:


> not called the 6 -second gun law. Maybe somebody coined this catchy phrase, but the law you want is in the same as the guy I quoted above. It is in the UUW statue in the Compiled Statutes. The fanny pack now comes in after the recent rulings of the above mentioned supreme court case.


Not sure if I understand what your saying? What I said has nothing to do with the guy you quoted........How recent are these rulings you are speaking of? I'm not claiming to be a know-all, I love information....so please inform me?


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## Gear_Head (Apr 29, 2009)

snocrete;784111 said:


> Not sure if I understand what your saying? What I said has nothing to do with the guy you quoted........How recent are these rulings you are speaking of? I'm not claiming to be a know-all, I love information....so please inform me?


I quoted you as well. The case was just ruled on a few months ago. I meant no offense, just wanted the correct info out there is all. This one of the few things I am a know it all on.

*The UUW statute does not define the terms "case" or "other container," so courts must apply the common definitions. All criminal statutes are construed strictly in favor of the defendant.

Until the statute is amended or an appellate court rules to the contrary, all types of "enclosed" cases and containers may legally be used (by persons who have a valid FOID card) to carry unloaded firearms.

This includes purses, backpacks, zippered gun cases, and the like.

However, a holster does not qualify as a case. (Marshall v. Walker, 1997 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 2311)*


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

I was hpoing to get more insight towards the comments I had made about the "concealed weapon in fanny pack around your waist w/ammo & gun in it together, but not loaded". Like I mentioned before, I know the states attorney very well in my county and I was told by him that there is a permit one can obtain for this? Is he wrong, or have i misunderstood somewhere along the way? Thanks.


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## Gear_Head (Apr 29, 2009)

snocrete;784135 said:


> I was hpoing to get more insight towards the comments I had made about the "concealed weapon in fanny pack around your waist w/ammo & gun in it together, but not loaded". Like I mentioned before, I know the states attorney very well in my county and I was told by him that there is a permit one can obtain for this? Is he wrong, or have i misunderstood somewhere along the way? Thanks.


If he said you need a permit, than yes he is wrong. That Is why I posted that part of the case for you. The courts have said under the current UUW laws, due to their vague definition of a container or case, anyone possessing a foid card may carry an UNLOADED hand gun in a purse, fanny pack, back pack..etc. These all constitute a container or case at this point in time. You may have a loaded or 10 loaded magazines in the bag with it, just not in the weapon. Hope this helps.

Is there anything you would like me to touch on more specifically?


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

nope, that was what I was wandering about....and I think I may have misunderstood him. the conversation we had about this was vague and very brief................thanks gear head...


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## Gear_Head (Apr 29, 2009)

snocrete;784148 said:


> nope, that was what I was wandering about....and I think I may have misunderstood him. the conversation we had about this was vague and very brief................thanks gear head...


anytime, glad I could help


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Sno this explains the six second rule. http://www.concealcarry.org/carrylegal.htm
I would suggest printing and carrying the letter they paste there for LE who may think they know the law better then you.

Side note no handguns in Chitown for any one, except LE.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Gear_Head;784141 said:


> Is there anything you would like me to touch on more specifically?


Are there any limitations to were you can carry ?
Such as a school, tavern, walmart, county fair etc.


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## jbone (Mar 18, 2006)

I havent in the past but will from now on. I didnt have my carry license last season but I do now!!


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## Gear_Head (Apr 29, 2009)

T-MAN;784212 said:


> Are there any limitations to were you can carry ?
> Such as a school, tavern, walmart, county fair etc.


usually schools, state and federal building are a no. County fair, walmart..etc...are fine unless otherwise posted at the private establishment.


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## Gear_Head (Apr 29, 2009)

T-MAN;784211 said:


> Sno this explains the six second rule. http://www.concealcarry.org/carrylegal.htm
> I would suggest printing and carrying the letter they paste there for LE who may think they know the law better then you.
> 
> Side note no handguns in Chitown for any one, except LE.


Keep in mind the recent court decision changes what you posted a bit.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

T-MAN;784211 said:


> Sno this explains the six second rule. http://www.concealcarry.org/carrylegal.htm
> I would suggest printing and carrying the letter they paste there for LE who may think they know the law better then you.
> 
> Side note no handguns in Chitown for any one, except LE.


thanks Todd........this was what I was talking about. And yes, If one was to decide to take advantage of this right, i agree it would be wise to have a copy with you.


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## tinffx (Jun 5, 2009)

In va you can hang a loaded shotgun in your rear window. Just not while drinking or while being a convicted felon (which I imagine most of us don't until after a storm). Otherwise you can get a permit to conceal a handgun on yourself. 

I have had my concealed carry permit since I was 21 but I can probably count the number of times I packed heat on both hands. So, no I generally don't pack it while plowing. I did once though but it was only because I didn't want to leave my piece in my car. A good rule of thumb though is "don't go somewhere with a gun you wouldn't go to without." You aren't the cops and even justifiably defending yourself with one isn't going to make for a terribly cheap or pleasent aftermath

The god given right to firearms is looking like it has a pretty good chance of being returned to us rightfully in the relatively near future though.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Gear_Head;784327 said:


> Keep in mind the recent court decision changes what you posted a bit.


Pardon my ignorance but what changed ?
I know that was an old article in the trib, and not sure when that was posted at concealed carry.
I did not find anything newer when I googled it.

That trib article stated some towns were not going to play nice. My neighbor is a Zion cop so I am itching now to ask him what there take is.

Thanks for the heads up on were not to carry.


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## Gear_Head (Apr 29, 2009)

T-MAN;784377 said:


> Pardon my ignorance but what changed ?
> I know that was an old article in the trib, and not sure when that was posted at concealed carry.
> I did not find anything newer when I googled it.
> 
> ...


What is considered as a case or container is what has changed. It use to be that if the gun was not in it's case you could be in trouble. Now, back packs, consoles, fanny packs, all of those things are allowed because of the recent court ruling I posted above.

articles are fine, but read the laws and rulings on it to know what you can and cant do.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Gear_Head;784418 said:


> What is considered as a case or container is what has changed. It use to be that if the gun was not in it's case you could be in trouble. Now, back packs, consoles, fanny packs, all of those things are allowed because of the recent court ruling I posted above.
> 
> articles are fine, but read the laws and rulings on it to know what you can and cant do.


Thanks 
Spoke with a fellow shooter this evening and he said there was talk about this at the IDPA shoot last weekend in Racine. Most of the guys in IL from this area all siad the same thing.
It might be "legal", but it will cost you 50K to prove it. Sounds like the typical BS we put up with in far NE IL. To close to King Daileys domain.
Wish my darn neighbor wasnt 2nd shift, to get there take. Hopefully I will see him around this weekend.


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## firedawg1983 (Sep 15, 2008)

I have my cc license here in Indiana and carry all the time. I have contracts in Gary Indiana so I always have my S&W MP sometimes I'll carry my tactical shotgun as well just depends where I go and what I'm doing haha! unless I'm feeling frisky then I'll bring the AK!


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## Colombocustom (Oct 29, 2006)

How many carry spare parts, fluid, fuses, lines or tools? You hope you dont need them but you have them if you do. The same thing with your firearm, better to have and not need it than need it and not have it.

Hopefully your insurance agent will raise your kids for you after you get rolled up in a snow pile somewhere.


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## Sticks (Sep 23, 2009)

drivewaydoctor;699062 said:


> Man this story sparks so much controversy here in Canada believe it or not. What many Canadians don't know is we too have a CCW permit just like in the States. However the only way they will approve this permit for us legally licensed handgun owners is if "...our lives can no longer be protected by Police..."
> 
> I have disputed this with the Firearms Office over and over again telling them that when a bad situation arises such as being shot at or having a gun pulled on you there is no way the Police can save you. It only takes a matter of seconds. Most gun fights that end in casualties last seconds or minutes tops. Your story is proof that all law abiding gun owners should have the right to CCW and protect themselves.
> 
> In the meantime, I'll just have to enjoy the benefits of gun ownership....


im with you, im in Windsor Ontario.... things are not nice here anymore.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

drivewaydoctor;699062 said:


> Man this story sparks so much controversy here in Canada believe it or not. What many Canadians don't know is we too have a CCW permit just like in the States. However the only way they will approve this permit for us legally licensed handgun owners is if "...our lives can no longer be protected by Police..."
> 
> I have disputed this with the Firearms Office over and over again telling them that when a bad situation arises such as being shot at or having a gun pulled on you there is no way the Police can save you. It only takes a matter of seconds. Most gun fights that end in casualties last seconds or minutes tops. Your story is proof that all law abiding gun owners should have the right to CCW and protect themselves.
> 
> In the meantime, I'll just have to enjoy the benefits of gun ownership....


Remember, when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.


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## Scott's (Aug 9, 2008)

With all the low balling going on with fly by night plow guys none of us should carry a fire arm.


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## rob_cook2001 (Nov 15, 2008)

I have a cc permit. The only time I do not carry is when I can not carry (courthouse, schools, and a few other places). One of those things, only takes one time to wish you had it.
Robert


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## MeeksCo (Oct 31, 2008)

Scott's;697901 said:


> thugs wont come out in the snow and cold to mug you ,there all snuggled up eating there free food and keeping warm in a house they are not paying for. Ohh sorry I better stop now.


Please. Don't stop. Ha!
It's true! Us hardworking individuals, whether we be white, black, orange or green, don't get anything in return. We also don't expect it. 
We pay our taxes, work hard, and obide by the law.

It's complete insanity. 
Example: Illegal aliens dont pay a dime when they, let's say, give birth to a child in the US. Do we get away with that?

It must be nice to move into a landlords property, trash the place, not pay any rent and get evicted and let the government or section 8 put you right back into another landlords, maybe, newly renovated building, so you can trash that unit, as well.

I know i'm off topic...but yes, I do carry protection at all times. 
"Officer: Why is there a hammer and a small ax under your front seat? Me: I just got done building a tree-house earlier, Officer."


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## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

I can see the need at times to carry. Also being in IL I know that is would cost dearly if caught.

Plowing all hours, all types of weather, in and out of the truck, managing staff, some neighborhoods not so nice, nice rig ..... I can see how things might go wrong. Not sure in the dead of night, cold and tired that what you don't see coming you could instantly respond too thus to use the gun you'd have to already be anticipating something so why be there or learn how to fight. Rambling thoughts I suppose.....

I do fully understand the one post ..... "When seconds count, police are only minutes away". To add to that unless the PO are running to Duncan donuts or manning a speed trap your on your own - btw body bags only cost $7 dollars.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

I like NH laws. open carry any day of the week with no id. If stopped all you have to give for information is first name and the town you are from....not the state, just the town. Doesn't matter if you live in Florida. Of coarse the cops still harass you, but there isn't a damn thing they can do about it, & they know it. "Live Free or Die"...I don't even know who the Governor of NH is.....but he should be elected President next term.  

okay, so maybe that isn't such a great idea  but we need more people fighting for our rights when it comes to our guns.ussmileyflag


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## Gear_Head (Apr 29, 2009)

scottL;812565 said:


> I can see the need at times to carry. Also being in IL I know that is would cost dearly if caught.
> 
> Plowing all hours, all types of weather, in and out of the truck, managing staff, some neighborhoods not so nice, nice rig ..... I can see how things might go wrong. Not sure in the dead of night, cold and tired that what you don't see coming you could instantly respond too thus to use the gun you'd have to already be anticipating something so why be there or learn how to fight. Rambling thoughts I suppose.....
> 
> I do fully understand the one post ..... "When seconds count, police are only minutes away". To add to that unless the PO are running to Duncan donuts or manning a speed trap your on your own - btw body bags only cost $7 dollars.


the laws are SLOWLY getting better for you here. I do not have anyway for you to get around the Chicago ordinance, but as far as state law I can give you help on how to walk that line and still be legal.


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## RN Lawncare (Sep 1, 2009)

White Gardens;697886 said:


> That's ridiculous, or at least that's how I feel.
> 
> I've plowed some shady apartment complexes, and never had any issues.
> 
> ...


Well, a guy I know was plowing a parking lot when it was dark and two men approached him saying there car was stuck so he drove over trying to help them and be nice when he got out of the truck the beat him up while one grabbed his wallet and took the cash the other grabbed the keys out of the ignition and threw them into the river. (He was plowing a area by the river which has a lot of people there at reasturants during summer but it was like 3 o'clock in the morning and this was in a semi remote area)


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## scottL (Dec 7, 2002)

Gear_Head;812674 said:


> the laws are SLOWLY getting better for you here. I do not have anyway for you to get around the Chicago ordinance, but as far as state law I can give you help on how to walk that line and still be legal.


Well if it helps any .... I do not EVER go in or through cook county while plowing.


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

I carry a gun, but it's only for if I se a Coyote. I don't have to wory about people around here.


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## Gear_Head (Apr 29, 2009)

scottL;812838 said:


> Well if it helps any .... I do not EVER go in or through cook county while plowing.


shouldn't be a problem.


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## jeff52984 (Sep 25, 2009)

Usually have mine with me everytime I leave the house and especially when going to work but thats just me.


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