# Loaders - tires slipping, what are my options?



## sk187 (Dec 7, 2006)

We have a few loaders with 16' push boxes on (you can see the equipment by clicking the link in my signature) and both loaders slip when there is any ice or slippery snow.

We have priced chains out for the loaders and it is recommended to get all 4 tires done not just 2. The down side to this option is the damage it can do (brick pavers on site).

The other options are stud the tires or get the tires filled with foam or liquid to weigh them down.

Just wondering what everyone else here is doing or if you all just deal with it.

I want to push a full box as far as I need to, what should I do?


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## Milwaukee (Dec 28, 2007)

or try low tires pressure to low that you could do.

I notice on my boss's 88's chevy 3500 with dually but rear tires are worn out but he want use for another 500 miles. if I fill to 55 PSI that what tires say but hard time get off in snow it would spin so decide low to 20 PSI but it look to be ready pop bead out rim but it did finally out snow then fill air to 30 psi then leave there until no snow on road.


Or keep less of snow like you can't push 1 time without no dump snow it hard to do that without traction.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

We just deal with the spinning and avoid damage. It's not that the 16' is too big, but a 14' might do better if you want to carry the snow farther distances.


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## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

Blowerman

check out Nokian Tyres...the same guys that make killer snow tires for cars make great tires for equipment...particularlly for handling in snow. They are European and Expensive but great traction particularly lateral grip in snow and much better wear characterisitics...will last 2-3 times longer so price is really a deal. I have a set of the TRI-2's coming for my 244J for next season. 360/80R20 a little narrower than my michelin 405/70R20's but will be killer in snow.

They also offer other models in tires sizes for large loaders. Check out the GRS for your larger machines.

www.nokianheavytyres.com

Good luck

Dave


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

It's a fact of life, you just have to deal with. That last storm we got, was a pain to push, everyone had problems.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;514227 said:


> It's a fact of life, you just have to deal with. That last storm we got, was a pain to push, everyone had problems.


What he said.


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## carlriv2 (Oct 15, 2001)

Use more salt.


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## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

Wouldn't it help to sipe loader tires? Or would it just cause the tires to get chunks torn out of them?


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## Little Jon (Nov 3, 2007)

We have 500lbs of antifreeze in each tire for more weight, other than that we deal with it, if somone doesnt like it...stay the hell home when it snows!


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## RipT (Dec 6, 2004)

Since you mentioned foam, it will add quite a bit of weight (more than any liquid) but is very $$$$ and will most likely reduce your snow/ice traction as the tire tread will not "conform" as well to the surface.

Different tire compound/tread pattern (sipeing does help on ice) and/or liquid filling will all help. Chains of course, but you mentioned brick pavers, which they would scratch and could damage.


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

JD Dave;514227 said:


> It's a fact of life, you just have to deal with. That last storm we got, was a pain to push, everyone had problems.


i 3rd that

as far as chains go........well for a loader that size they call them "abrasion resistant" chain's (for rock mining) and they can run up to ~$30g per pair believe it or not!!!!!!!

i did'nt read OT's post number#2 butt flatten the tires

we have fluid in the rear of a deere 744 and it scales out with a 12yd "rollout" bkt at about ~72,000# and on ice it is a little "loose footed"

so JUST DEAL WITH IT 

p.s. werent you the one about 4 months ago every one said "couldnt do it"  i am glad to see you can and i am excited to see some pic's


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## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

I appreciate everyone saying "Deal with it" there is a lot of truth to it....

BUT...the right tires will make a huge difference....dirt tires are not meant for ice/snow traction on pavement...but for slogging thru mud and dirt. Check out some of the Nokian's I mentioned or the Michelin Snoplus tires....both are made specifically for all weather traction on solid surfaces....they will kick butt over standard dirt tires. Kinda like how snow tires out perform mud/terrain tires on pick ups! Its not just the tread pattern though it is much better...lots of sipes and more contact but its also the rubber compound...stays compliant at lower temps.

All the snow removal loaders and graders in Montreal run specific snow tires and believe me they know snow and ice cold temps up there!

Just my two cents...I am getting some Nokians for next season...money where my mouth is payup


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## Dissociative (Feb 28, 2007)

Little Jon;515172 said:


> We have 500lbs of antifreeze in each tire for more weight, other than that we deal with it, if somone doesnt like it...stay the hell home when it snows!


is this a liquid?...won't that be like 65 gallons in each tire?? wow...


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## Little Jon (Nov 3, 2007)

Dissociative;515532 said:


> is this a liquid?...won't that be like 65 gallons in each tire?? wow...


Yes, it is a liquid. And, yeah, if a tire gets cut, youve got a huge cleanup on your hands.


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## occ3377 (Dec 5, 2007)

we have a loader on our farm with duals all around, but after reading this i have yet to decide wheather or not more tires would help.

heres a pic,


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

SD-Dave;515411 said:


> I appreciate everyone saying "Deal with it" there is a lot of truth to it....
> 
> BUT...the right tires will make a huge difference....dirt tires are not meant for ice/snow traction on pavement...but for slogging thru mud and dirt. Check out some of the Nokian's I mentioned or the Michelin Snoplus tires....both are made specifically for all weather traction on solid surfaces....they will kick butt over standard dirt tires. Kinda like how snow tires out perform mud/terrain tires on pick ups! Its not just the tread pattern though it is much better...lots of sipes and more contact but its also the rubber compound...stays compliant at lower temps.
> 
> ...


NEW TIRES........youre kidding right? you do realize we are talking about big machines and not a skid steer right?.....

so just what do you think a new set of L4 29.5X25 for my deere will cost?......i jsut put new firestone super rock grip's on it so i cna tell you.....it was more than $75 per tire 

and besides the cost thing i think this guy had a few of these machines rented.but i can't remember?

SK if you decide to put new rubber on the dinasaur let me know i can always use a spare set,


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

powerjoke;515944 said:


> NEW TIRES........youre kidding right? you do realize we are talking about big machines and not a skid steer right?.....
> 
> so just what do you think a new set of L4 29.5X25 for my deere will cost?......i jsut put new firestone super rock grip's on it so i cna tell you.....it was more than $75 per tire
> 
> ...


Sort of what I was thinking, PJ.


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

JD Dave;514227 said:


> It's a fact of life, you just have to deal with. That last storm we got, was a pain to push, everyone had problems.


I bet Big Red had no problems!tymusic


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## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

You don't need to buy new tires or $30,000 for chains...if you can run chains.

A set of SNOW chains is about $1000 to $1500 for a nice set of Pewag or Rudd.. up to a 980 sized cat...

The local street crews run $500 sets of ladder chains on everything up to a 950.

The citys around here don't run anything but graders/loaders. Never seen a $30,000 rock quarry set on the snow... Go up to the mine and sure... The State runs Pewag net chains for $1700 on a 644 Deere.

The state chains the fronts... the locals chain the rears. State does the front, because they are pushing back banks, locals the rear because they are plowing the roads.


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## farmerkev (Dec 7, 2007)

occ3377;515927 said:


> we have a loader on our farm with duals all around, but after reading this i have yet to decide wheather or not more tires would help.
> 
> heres a pic,


Any more pics, looks like an older loader. Looks SICK, what do you use it for?wesport


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## occ3377 (Dec 5, 2007)

farmerkev;516715 said:


> Any more pics, looks like an older loader. Looks SICK, what do you use it for?wesport


i dont have anymore pics but i will see if i can get some more soon. that loader pictured is a 4 year old machine, a case 621D XR, and we have another of the exact same one, along with two 1 year old of the same model, a total of 4 but only one with duals, and we use it for stacking sweetcorn silage


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## Little Jon (Nov 3, 2007)

SD-Dave;515411 said:


> Kinda like how snow tires out perform mud/terrain tires on pick ups!


I dont know, My muds outpreformed any snows Ive ever had on my truck or relatives trucks.


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## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

not sure where you're located Jon...but real snow tires in snow and ice particularly at low temps will kick the heck out of a mud tire period... Mud tires are for mud, snow tires are for snow and ice...temperature specific rubber compound and tread with sipes to grab the ice....mud tires have neither.

As for the others complaining of cost....its all relative to your specific usage and how much wear tear etc. occur. If you're getting stuck all the time and/or spinning your tires constantly then correct tires maybe an actual cost saving investment. All depends on specifics....

The man asked for some alternatives, better winter snow tires are an option weather one chooses that is another subject.

Dave

ps. powerjoke...yeah I know how much loader tires cost...bought several sets in my time...if you have a fairly new machine and want maximum productivity out of it...sometimes you gotta spend some $$$....take it easy doesn't mean you have too


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

creativedesigns;516697 said:


> I bet Big Red had no problems!tymusic


Duals are actually worse in the winter, but Big Red seems to make out fine. In that big storm, it got icy and you couldn't take a full box, no big deal. Generally when the snow is that heavy your going to have problems. Snow tires would be nice but for those couple snows a year that you need them, it would be expensive. A few of our tractors have loaded tires and they do seem to push better.


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## Little Jon (Nov 3, 2007)

SD-Dave;517174 said:


> not sure where you're located Jon...but real snow tires in snow and ice particularly at low temps will kick the heck out of a mud tire period... Mud tires are for mud, snow tires are for snow and ice...temperature specific rubber compound and tread with sipes to grab the ice....mud tires have neither.
> 
> As for the others complaining of cost....its all relative to your specific usage and how much wear tear etc. occur. If you're getting stuck all the time and/or spinning your tires constantly then correct tires maybe an actual cost saving investment. All depends on specifics....
> 
> ...


Well like it says under my name, if located in Buffalo. And possibly my tires were better than the average mud tire because they were siped, and not by me, they came that way from the tire maker. So maybe mine preformed better than most out there.


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## ppandr (Dec 16, 2004)

I'm assuming that your operators are curling the bucket back a hair when you start to slip to transfer the full blade weight to the front tires. This is by far the most common mistake made by push blade owners.


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## doh (Sep 23, 2003)

Little Jon;515172 said:


> We have 500lbs of antifreeze in each tire for more weight, other than that we deal with it, if somone doesnt like it...stay the hell home when it snows!


Why antifreeze? we load them with calcium chloride and water here. A 18.4-34 would hold 4 bags of salt and 60 gallons of water.


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## AbsoluteH&L (Jan 5, 2006)

Little Jon;518690 said:


> Well like it says under my name, if located in Buffalo. And possibly my tires were better than the average mud tire because they were siped, and not by me, they came that way from the tire maker. So maybe mine preformed better than most out there.


I'm with yah there! Bridgstone MTs on the Jeep and BFG MTs on the Ford. They work great for me for the conditions we have. Now if we had a lot more ice that would be different, but for lots of deep snow or fluff I would rather have a MT over a snow. 
As every one else on here this is JUST my OPINION based on my past experiences.
Back to the subject, I would fill the tires or run low psi.


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## Little Jon (Nov 3, 2007)

doh;519928 said:


> Why antifreeze? we load them with calcium chloride and water here. A 18.4-34 would hold 4 bags of salt and 60 gallons of water.


I honestly dont know, the tires were filled long before I joined the company, I have asked before why, but I can never remember the exact reasoning. I think...Im not even going to try and guess. But I do know its a new thing.


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## HALH VT (Nov 14, 2003)

Slow leaks in chloride filled tires get ignored, "Just put some air in it it will be all right", until the rim is rusted beyond all chance of repair. Anti freeze won't do that.


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## Little Jon (Nov 3, 2007)

HALH VT;523569 said:


> Slow leaks in chloride filled tires get ignored, "Just put some air in it it will be all right", until the rim is rusted beyond all chance of repair. Anti freeze won't do that.


Yep, thats what it was.


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## BH37 (Sep 26, 2008)

We had the tire spin problem at our lots until we started to pre treat the lots with liquid ice melt.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

BH37;591348 said:


> We had the tire spin problem at our lots until we started to pre treat the lots with liquid ice melt.


When you've plowed the same lot 3 times in 8 hours, it doesn't matter if you pretreated or not.


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## BH37 (Sep 26, 2008)

yea you probably right, extreme cases change the efectivness of pretreating.


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## wheelingmachine (Oct 1, 2008)

i cannt beleive that you got a new loader and its doesnt have loaded tires. more are filled with cloride.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

doh;519928 said:


> Why antifreeze? we load them with calcium chloride and water here. A 18.4-34 would hold 4 bags of salt and 60 gallons of water.


I heard they're starting to use beet juice, just like what is being used to treat salt. Never freezes and doesn't corrode.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;594942 said:


> I heard they're starting to use beet juice, just like what is being used to treat salt. Never freezes and doesn't corrode.


Bingo was his name O, B I N G O!


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## Diagonal Brace (Jan 5, 2006)

*544J Highlift*

A little off the subject here but how do you find the highlift machine with regards to manuverability? I had looked at a similar Cat and it seemed you would need a little more space to accomplish the same type of plowing actions. Maybe not a concern but when plowing streets it would seem to be a hindrance. Nice looking fleet none the less. With regard to traction I believe that lifting the pusher to transfer the weight is the best solution. Adding weight is going to burn more fuel and chains are prohibitive. That being said spinning tires burn fuel needlessly so maybe taking a smaller bite instead of a full blade would be a compromise. Every situation needs a different solution.tymusic


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## zigzag82 (Oct 5, 2008)

in Colorado we use the michelin and a 14ft angel Rylind WAM blade. I can dump 3, 30 yard end dumps and then it takes 4 pushes to move it all 100 ft to the stack site. The Michelin tire is the one with five lugs across and they are sipped three times. The cost for us was $12,000 for the tires and mounting, but we have gotten 5 snow seasons out of them and the tugs are about 3/4 sill.
The town of Winter Park runs them year around and they get 5 years out of a set, It is the only tire the towns of Winter Park, Fraser, Grand Lake, and 7 contracters in Grand County run.


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## zigzag82 (Oct 5, 2008)

The Michelin Tire also cut our plow time down by 3 hr per plow. All our accounts are Per plow contracts so more time to sleep.


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