# Bidding help hudson valley ny



## Brian22 (Dec 1, 2018)

Looking for some locals to give me a hand. Owner operator. Single 3/4 ton truck 10' plow with salter. 
Lot is open 24/7. Plow every 3 inches. Salt every plow. No walks.
Looking for a per push rate and a seasonal rate.
Yes your costs may be different from mine however I would still like to get some numbers to figure out what the average price would be for the lot. 
How do you figure salt pricing? Cost 160 a ton.

Lot is 39,000 sq feet. Long and thin. All the snow needs to be pushed long ways to the back.
8.6 plow with wings making it 10.1 feet.

If you need any other info let me know. I am not interested in the trolls/snobs coming to say about how I should know etc. ( yes I have read quite a few posts )
Thanks in advance.


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## Mike NY (Feb 2, 2009)

Brian22 said:


> Lot is 39,000 sq feet. Long and thin. All the snow needs to be pushed long ways to the back.
> 8.6 plow with wings making it 10.1 feet.


1) why is this up for bid now, season starts in November.
2) 3 in trigger for a commercial is not ideal.
3) is your plow a straight blade or do you have some sort of containment (v plow). How long is the push?
4) 800 lbs salt per acre is a good starting point for average salt application.
5) Do you have backup plan?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Brian22 said:


> Looking for some locals to give me a hand. Owner operator. Single 3/4 ton truck 10' plow with salter.
> Lot is open 24/7. Plow every 3 inches. Salt every plow. No walks.
> Looking for a per push rate and a seasonal rate.
> Yes your costs may be different from mine however I would still like to get some numbers to figure out what the average price would be for the lot.
> ...


 I'm not in your area but am in NY. What you pay for salt is what I would charge to spread salt. plowing without seeing it I would say around $90.00. You have a problem with a 3'' trigger. Being it's open 24 hours hard pack will be a issue. With that said you might have to make another plow trip to clean slop when the salt does it's job.

Other than that the above post pretty much spells it out.


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## Brian22 (Dec 1, 2018)

Mike NY said:


> 1) why is this up for bid now, season starts in November.
> 2) 3 in trigger for a commercial is not ideal.
> 3) is your plow a straight blade or do you have some sort of containment (v plow). How long is the push?
> 4) 800 lbs salt per acre is a good starting point for average salt application.
> 5) Do you have backup plan?


It's a vplow with wings.
450 feet long
Agree on the 3 inch. It's a pain but they are cheap idiots that are just begging for a lawsuit.
Bidding now is more of a reason to drop them at this point after talking with a few people. I have been cutting my throat for 2 years here and the guy complained about price after this past 2 day storm with a 1350~ bill. Said come up with new prices. So they are getting raised.

First the salt prices I am more interested how people are figuring out their expenses vs equipment turn over. If anyone has a formula they use so I can consider that. I believe 800 lbs sounds about what I am putting down here.

I have had a quick chat with 2 people I have seen locally and they both said around 200 for a salt application. Does that sound right?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

You can try doubling you salt cost for spreading. Don't know if you will be happy with it or if it's high, but you should be safe. Cost of everything is higher down your way then my area.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Brian22 said:


> It's a vplow with wings.
> Agree on the 3 inch. It's a pain but they are cheap idiots that are just begging for a lawsuit.
> Bidding now is more of a reason to drop them at this point after talking with a few people. I have been cutting my throat for 2 years here and the guy complained about price after this past 2 day storm with a 1350~ bill. Said come up with new prices. So they are getting raised.
> 
> ...


 Not to stir the pot, you will be included in a law suit.


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## Brian22 (Dec 1, 2018)

FredG said:


> Not to stir the pot, you will be included in a law suit.


Yea this is why I am interested re pricing(raising prices and frequency) and at this point more than likely dropping due to current situation and them not wanting a proper job.

I would assume something like this would be in the 15,000 to 20,000 range for a season.

Looks like no tolerance is the way to go for commercial lots.


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## Mike NY (Feb 2, 2009)

Lots of red flags! Priced too high= find someone else or do it yourself!
1 inch plow trigger, salt everything under that. 3 in = no go on a 27 hr commercial. Double cost of salt usually will keep you out of trouble. time + material + markup.
Stop cutting your own throat, You work for $, Just like everyone else.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Brian22 said:


> Yea this is why I am interested re pricing(raising prices and frequency) and at this point more than likely dropping due to current situation and them not wanting a proper job.
> 
> I would assume something like this would be in the 15,000 to 20,000 range for a season.
> 
> Looks like no tolerance is the way to go for commercial lots.


 Sounds like your dealing with uneducated management. 24 hours should be a 1'' trigger and a salt run.


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## Mike NY (Feb 2, 2009)

Brian22 said:


> I would assume something like this would be in the 15,000 to 20,000 range for a season.


Seems high but good if you can get it. Whats your average annual snowfall for a season? 45"-55"? how many service events in a season? salt use will be less per event if you are there more often, ie not trying to burn down lots of ice.


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

1. Run away. You'll never protect yourself in a lawsuit if you sign a contract like they want.
2. If you convince them go with the following: 1-2" trigger. Salt every time. Your discretion on salting otherwise. You get to do a cleanup at the end of the storm even if the trigger isn't met. 
3. I work up in the southern Adirondacks. You salt price is a rip off. I'm a small time outfit and I only pay 73-80/ton for bulk salt if I pick up. I'd get a new vendor. 
4. Cost to do this lot would be $185 plow and $225 for salt or $390 for both at once. Any site conditions exempt you from liability.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

We could buy salt for $78.00 delivered, 25 ton minimal.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

The Op is plowing less than a acre. 3/4 ton truck and a 10' plow ballast correctly should take about 50 minutes. Tops your going to draw per hour is $125.00 in this neck of the woods. $160.00 to $170.00 is about all you will draw for salt and spread. 

If you can draw $185.00 in less than a hours work God bless you. $225.00 to spread 800# or less salt God bless you again. If they want to call the salt trips instead of you is time to run.

Remember one thing, the ambulance chasers come after the contractor first then they will come after the property owner and only God knows who else. Technically it is your responsibility as a contractor to keep property safe not the client.

Old Grandma Jones falls and breaks a hip and injures her back your out of the frying pan into the fire..


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

“They are cheap idiots”

Let someone else deal with them. Not all business is good business. Let them and their 3” trigger go to someone else.


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## Brian22 (Dec 1, 2018)

I have checked around to confirm but all of the locations around here are 150 for magic. Straight salt is a bit less at 120 but have avoided for a few reasons.
Anyone have experience with both? Which is better in the long run?
I know magic claims non corrosive, environmentally friendly and safe for pets. I have had quite a few people ask about the pet part.

Thanks for your replies.
I took your advise and changed the plow range down to 2 inches and salt prices up to 200.
I have a feeling they had some estimates done because they were MUCH happier when I spoke with them today.


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## Brian22 (Dec 1, 2018)

Brian22 said:


> I have checked around to confirm but all of the locations around here are 150 (just noticed I had a typo of 160) for magic. Straight salt is a bit less at 120 but have avoided for a few reasons.
> Anyone have experience with both? Which is better in the long run?
> I know magic claims non corrosive, environmentally friendly and safe for pets. I have had quite a few people ask about the pet part.
> 
> ...


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Brian22 said:


> I have checked around to confirm but all of the locations around here are 150 for magic. Straight salt is a bit less at 120 but have avoided for a few reasons.
> Anyone have experience with both? Which is better in the long run?
> I know magic claims non corrosive, environmentally friendly and safe for pets. I have had quite a few people ask about the pet part.
> 
> ...


I use magic, the plus,it works in colder temps than straight salt .I've had puddles in my lots when its 10 deg, gives it a chance to evaporate and not refreeze. I use a lesser amount than straight salt.Straight salt is cheaper but will not work as well in the sub 18 deg area,have to use more. But on the 30 deg days I feel I'm wasting money using the treated.The treated seems to leave less chalky stains after use ,or maybe the darker color doesn't show up as well.I pay wholesale from the dock, treated is around 88$ and straight I think is 58$. I would do more research on salt sources.It doesn't matter the price if everyone is paying about the same. No comment on pricing, I'm in an area where we get what others would drool over, but operating costs are nuts ! Just don't sell yourself short. And don't be to desperate to land a job ,its like marrying the wrong gal,you'll regret it till the day you die lol


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## Brian22 (Dec 1, 2018)

QUOTE="leigh, post: 2404949, member: 33533"]I use magic, the plus,it works in colder temps than straight salt .I've had puddles in my lots when its 10 deg, gives it a chance to evaporate and not refreeze. I use a lesser amount than straight salt.Straight salt is cheaper but will not work as well in the sub 18 deg area,have to use more. But on the 30 deg days I feel I'm wasting money using the treated.The treated seems to leave less chalky stains after use ,or maybe the darker color doesn't show up as well.I pay wholesale from the dock, treated is around 88$ and straight I think is 58$. I would do more research on salt sources.It doesn't matter the price if everyone is paying about the same. No comment on pricing, I'm in an area where we get what others would drool over, but operating costs are nuts ! Just don't sell yourself short. And don't be to desperate to land a job ,its like marrying the wrong gal,you'll regret it till the day you die lol[/QUOTE]
Great advise thanks. I have checked around. There are only a few locations to buy bulk. One is 140 out in the sticks 20 minutes. The other is right close. And the last is 140 for straight salt I believe. The last place I try not to go to because the leader bucket is way too long causing it to spill all over the truck and in the bed. Also slips in the crack where the spinner mounts up and gets all over the conveyor motor.
I feel like every time I use magic it does not work well. I was using a salt/sand mix that did better i believe. Will be testing it more myself but thanks for the info. I think it may just be the super heavy ice when I have been getting the magic.


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