# Wheel loaders?



## ryde307 (Dec 3, 2009)

So this is going to be very open ended but we have been a sub for large companies for a few years now. Our summer business has grown to a larger size and winter is well on its way. So I am somewhat in the market for a wheel loader next year. 

My question is what to look for? What are you guys running that don't do large excavation in the summer? So in other words dont have alot of summer work for a loader? What size,year,blade,bucket, pusher? When looking for a used one what should I look for and what should I stay away from? Thanks for any answers.


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## NEUSWEDE (Mar 14, 2003)

ryde307;928265 said:


> So this is going to be very open ended but we have been a sub for large companies for a few years now. Our summer business has grown to a larger size and winter is well on its way. So I am somewhat in the market for a wheel loader next year.
> 
> My question is what to look for? What are you guys running that don't do large excavation in the summer? So in other words dont have alot of summer work for a loader? What size,year,blade,bucket, pusher? When looking for a used one what should I look for and what should I stay away from? Thanks for any answers.


Why buy a used one when it will probably be less money and more beneficial to lease for the winter. Since you dont have much summer work why not just lease in the winter. If you lease from dealer your pretty much get a new machine every year. There is usually a limit on the hours you can put on it but it isn't really restrictive. Also then if it breaks down your covered they will drop you another one and fix it for you. If you buy one and it breaks down your kinda screwed. Just a thought for you.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

lease is a good option, otherwise, you may want to start looking into finding work for the summer for it, we just got our first piece of heavy equipment, in the form of a 910Cat, we bought a used machine, but it had a rebuilt tranny and engine (only 1000hrs on it). We also made arrangements with one of your contracts to do some work during the summer with it, it isn't a lot, but well probably be enough to make the payments on the machine. keep in mind what you are going to do with that loader for winter work, isn't going to put it to its full potential at all, IMO, so if you do regular maintenance on it, you should get many years out of a used machine


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## ryde307 (Dec 3, 2009)

I agree on the winter being fairly easy work so should last a while. I dont need anything realy new by any means just clean but we have capabilities to respray it. As for summer work we have a farm/shop that there is some work for it. More or less use not work since its all personal usage. Is there people that lease or rent use in the summer or places I could look to send one to work? I saw a thread about a guy sending his loaders to a mine for the winter. I guess I am wondering is there situations like that for summer work?

As to leasing it is an option we are looking heavy into. That is what alot have said so I ill continue to always keep that option in there as we may need more equipment than we could afford anyways.


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## ryde307 (Dec 3, 2009)

I am also wondering about regulations for driving equipment on public roads. Alot of our accounts are within 3-5 miles of our shop I am wondering about driving equipment on streets. What are the regulations. I assume is differnt in every city/State and so on, but curious what you do for moving it around.


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## sidthss (Oct 23, 2009)

Our bobcats get run on the street from account to account and we havent had a problem yet, but I am not 100% on what the law is around here, some states are very strict about it.


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## NorthernSvc's (Mar 12, 2006)

hours dont kill machines years do.... if your not going to use it all the time - lease it!!! a lot less headaches in the long run....


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

Not that I mind renting machines for winter, but the numbers hardly work with what most accounts pay now days. There is a lot of good used iron on the market right now. You could easily find something in the 30-50K range that should work. If you winter rent at $10K for the season, in only 3 or 4 years you'd be ahead of the game owning.
As for myself, I spent in the range of $100K on a tractor blower combination that sits for most of the summer. If you can justify it, buy it. You might put less hours on a machine in winter, but they rust ot death faster than they wear out.


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## rob_cook2001 (Nov 15, 2008)

NorthernSvc's;930718 said:


> hours dont kill machines years do.... if your not going to use it all the time - lease it!!! a lot less headaches in the long run....


I disagree, I would much rather have a 15yo machine with 3000 hours than a 5 year old machine with 6000 hours. Now if they are not taken care of and are located in the rust belt I can understand your point but as a rule I believe it's the hours "use" that kills the machine.
Just my 2 cents
Robert


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

if you keep your eye open for that great deal, you well find it, i watched all year, looking for a deal on a good used loader, found a 1978 CAT 910, 1000 on a rebuilt engine and tranny, older machine but in great shape, paid, $15 000 for it, greatest investment ever!!!


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## ryde307 (Dec 3, 2009)

Thanks for the info. We are really more in the buy vs rent market. I do understand the rental arguement but for 3-4k a month rental with hr restrictions and sush I could buy a 40-50k loader and payments would be similair and work it alot. We have access to alot of extra winter work for one just nothing really in the summer.

As for running equipment on roads. Thats my other question. We run bobcats all over I am more asking about larger stuff large tractors and loaders.

Instead of starting another thread I will also ask about tractors. Similair to the loader question what are you using price size blower? blade? box plow so on. Just lookign to start some discussion on larger equipment yes and no's


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## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

ryde307;930900 said:


> Thanks for the info. We are really more in the buy vs rent market. I do understand the rental arguement but for 3-4k a month rental with hr restrictions and sush I could buy a 40-50k loader and payments would be similair and work it alot. We have access to alot of extra winter work for one just nothing really in the summer.
> 
> As for running equipment on roads. Thats my other question. We run bobcats all over I am more asking about larger stuff large tractors and loaders.
> 
> Instead of starting another thread I will also ask about tractors. Similair to the loader question what are you using price size blower? blade? box plow so on. Just lookign to start some discussion on larger equipment yes and no's


Are you talking about a 40-50k pound or dollar loader? If you meant $40k to $50k loader than you will probably pay about $1500/mo in payments. A 3 yard loader (+/- 30k#) will push a very large pusher. It will road better than your skid steers (better ride & higher speeds). Width should not be a problem until you get much larger.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

ryde307;930900 said:


> Thanks for the info. We are really more in the buy vs rent market. I do understand the rental arguement but for 3-4k a month rental with hr restrictions and sush I could buy a 40-50k loader and payments would be similair and work it alot. We have access to alot of extra winter work for one just nothing really in the summer.
> 
> As for running equipment on roads. Thats my other question. We run bobcats all over I am more asking about larger stuff large tractors and loaders.
> 
> Instead of starting another thread I will also ask about tractors. Similair to the loader question what are you using price size blower? blade? box plow so on. Just lookign to start some discussion on larger equipment yes and no's


seek out JD Dave, or Neige, either one can answer your questions easily


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## ryde307 (Dec 3, 2009)

yes I meant $40,000-50,000 not lbs. I know that a payment I look at it 
1500*12 months= 18000 a year to own or
3500*4months= 14000 a year to rent

I would rather own. I understand if something breaks those numbers are garbage and a $45,000 loader is no wher close to as nice as a newer rental. But I am not living in it its for work. SO for us personally I would rather buy our first and then rent if we need more. 

I am looking for something around a Cat 938 size around 35,000lbs. 

I am not in a hurry to buy so I have plety of time to shop and find a good deal. We also spend alot of time at auctions buying and selling equipment.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

check out in the equipment sale thread, someone has a posting, "anyone need a cheap monster", if it were me, i would buy a beast like that, then drop 20 000 into repairs/maintenance on it, get the engine, tranny checked out, full service of everything, new pins, etc, then for 30 000 - 35 000 you would have a new like machine, (hell you could probably get it painted)


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

tractors are fairly handy to use when plowing and can generally be purchased at half the price of a used loader because there is less of a market for them, or so i've experienced. we run a 16' pusher on ours, it can handle more, but it would be tough cleaning isles with anything larger than 16 feet.

as for road usage, i know if ny they make you license all road vehicles and we are subject to DOT check points, but thats ny. i would check with your local dmv though.

loaders, don't rent, buy if you can. by the time you invest year after year you could own a machine out right. as far as summer work, you can call local construction companies and see if they would be interested in renting yours instead of a rental outfit.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

forgot to mention redman6565 about tractors, sorry


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

buckwheat_la;931714 said:


> forgot to mention redman6565 about tractors, sorry


thats ok, JD and Neige are still the experts :waving:


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## TRKling (Nov 1, 2008)

ryde307;931497 said:


> I am looking for something around a Cat 938 size around 35,000lbs.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

and i realize that you are looking for a certain size, i can only speak about my experience, BUT, with my 910 cat, i am pushing a 10ft snow push, with really large sides, now with my 910, and assisted by a skidsteer, we go through a very large industrial facility, approximately 8-10acres, 2 commercial parking lots, 1/2-1 acre, and a casino that is 4-5 acres, all before morning, i guess what i am saying is that even a smaller machine 1.5 yard bucket machine is going to be extremely productive in the right circumstances. 

Also consider this older machines are basically done their depreciative value, my $15 000 machine is still going to be worth $15 000 in 5 years, assuming i take good care of it of course!


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

buckwheat_la;932221 said:


> Also consider this older machines are basically done their depreciative value, my $15 000 machine is still going to be worth $15 000 in 5 years, assuming i take good care of it of course!


thats the best part about my 1974 trojan loader


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

I've found much bigger than a 544 Deere, L70 Volvo, 621 Case and it becomes overkill in most parking lots. I have a 521D Case with a 12' pusher and find the machine works and moves around jobs real good. While it could handle a bigger pusher, I made mine a direct couple (acs) and road it to all of our jobs. Any bigger and you'd probably run into problems driving any distance around town. We had a L70 two years ago and while we loved it, I do prefer the slightly smaller Case in most of our projects. 
As for the TV145, I mainly use it on condo driveways. All I can say is that machine with the 98" PXPL blower is overkill 80% of the time, But after watching Pronovost's video, I just had to have one.
Good luck with whatever you purchase.


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## ryde307 (Dec 3, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice. I was thinking 938 for size because right now we plow along side a bunch of 950's. I will look into smaller. If you having good experiance I have no problem with a smaller machine. 
As for tractors I am looking that route also. I like the ability with the 3 point to run blowers and such. We have worked along side a few large new hollands and john deeeres in previous years. I know nothing about tractors so size and such I dont have a clue. 
I do pay alot of attention at auctions and log most of what things sell for. So I will look for good deals all summer and see what we end up with by next season. Thanks for the help.


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

We use a 928G CAT with 20 foot box pushes way better than a backhoe. we noticed even with a 12 foot box on a hoe there are a lot of times your only taking 8 feet or so with the loader you can take way bigger bites.
We dont mind running them all over the roads. We have never got in trouble, yet.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Buying anything right now is way better than leasing. Even a back hoe lease is $2000 a month with a 4 month lease thats $8,000.00 a year. You can go buy a real nice used case 580 for $24,000.00. so your only paying $5400 per year in payments. You will also have it available all summer for other projects


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## ClevelandPusher (Feb 24, 2010)

PhilFromErie;969884 said:


> We use a 928G CAT with 20 foot box pushes way better than a backhoe. we noticed even with a 12 foot box on a hoe there are a lot of times your only taking 8 feet or so with the loader you can take way bigger bites.
> We dont mind running them all over the roads. We have never got in trouble, yet.


You're really using a 20' box on this machine? How long are your runs? I know next to nothing about loaders and am doing research for an account i'm picking up that will require a loader. My runs will be very long and from everything i'm reading, you could expect to push a 12' box with your 928G. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

If you dont actually need the bucket... (loader) I am sure you can find a hell of a deal on a tractor. Look into the weights of the tractor not only the hp of it.

Tractors can take alot of hours and a field tractor would be a better choice then a loader tractor with the same hours.

Another guy that runs a lot of equipment both tractors an loaders is delldoug.


The other thing to consider is that with owning a used pc of equipment, its not going to deprectiate that much, unless you really work it, and if your really working it then your making money.


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

My two cents for what its worth, definately buy not lease, the weakest link in a wheel loader is the tranny and the most expensive to replace, make sure tranny is tight, second always remember weight is what pushes snow not horsepower granted you need some power but weight is key here, as far as not going to big I do not agree we run 4-7 yd loaders with 16-20ft boxes and as long as you pair them up with a good size skid loader and an agressive operator he should be able to keep the little areas chased out to the big boy. Tractors are good also but again keep the weight in mind, they have advantages and disadvantages like everything.


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## ClevelandPusher (Feb 24, 2010)

SNOWLORD;1043925 said:


> My two cents for what its worth, definately buy not lease, the weakest link in a wheel loader is the tranny and the most expensive to replace, make sure tranny is tight, second always remember weight is what pushes snow not horsepower granted you need some power but weight is key here, as far as not going to big I do not agree we run 4-7 yd loaders with 16-20ft boxes and as long as you pair them up with a good size skid loader and an agressive operator he should be able to keep the little areas chased out to the big boy. Tractors are good also but again keep the weight in mind, they have advantages and disadvantages like everything.


Very informative. I'm in talks with a few people to buy the loader and lease it to me. That way, they'll lease it to me for below market rates ($10k/6mo), can sell it at the end of the 3 years I'll need it, and will be responsible for repairs. But you figure, if they buy a $60k machine, lease it to me for $12,500 per season, sell it for $50k after three years, they'll be able to put $15-$25k in their pocket depending on the expenses.

It's a though sell, but it is what it is. Thanks again for your info.


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## andcon83 (Dec 10, 2005)

I would stay in the 936/938 size range. JMO. Where I work we have 2- 926s (2-2.5yd) and they are not half the loader the 936F is. But, we also load trucks and crushering plants in the summer. The transmissions are the weakest link. The 936 had the transmission and motor rebuilt a few years ago at the tune of $30k. With all the businesses going out, I would suggest looking for an auction. You can get some really good deals at them.


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