# Ethical salting



## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

Curious as to what your opinion is on salting de-icing applications.

When it's dry out and it goes -1 there's not much chance for slip and falls anyways.

Some of my clients prefer -4 and below, but realistically speaking if it's dry and it goes freezing the chance of someone slipping is next to none.

Thoughts?


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

I guess if it’s dry there’s no reason to salt


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

at 0 check for run off trails and puddles if dry


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Rook said:


> Curious as to what your opinion is on salting de-icing applications.
> 
> When it's dry out and it goes -1 there's not much chance for slip and falls anyways.
> 
> ...


I suppose it would depend on what's forecasted, we presalt all the time if freezing rain is in the forecast, it may only do a little, but if we're doing it during business hours, it shows the client we're being proactive which is helpful from a pr standpoint.

we're referencing the centigrade scale right?

There's plentiful of company out there that don't apply enough salt their first app and end up having to apply more, thus charging the customer more, this is wrong imo and it's a blow to the industry as a whole, as we should take pride in our work, the customer hired us hopefully not strictly based on price, but because we're knowledgeable on the subject


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

I have seen some weird stuff like contractors working at site and dumping water outside or restaurant where buss boy dumps mop bucket outside. People don’t think so it may be justified at certain sites? I’m not one to salt if it’s not necessary


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

There isn't a one answer fits all situations. 

Not sure why it's my responsibility to check up on the busboy or a contractor dumping water...those aren't naturally occurring conditions.


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> There isn't a one answer fits all situations.
> 
> Not sure why it's my responsibility to check up on the busboy or a contractor dumping water...those aren't naturally occurring conditions.


I think he's just asking if it's dry?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

If your or your clients contracts are based on temperature alone to dictate salting you should seriously consider another client or vocation.


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

We get the least amount of snow here in this part of Canada, as far as I know most contractors here salt when it's 0•C below. The city lays down brine everytime it's 0 below. The only risk that I see is as said above someone spills water and it freezes over.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

So you salt every time it gets below freezing, regardless of the conditions?


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

if it's dry wait 2-3 days before re-salting, but yeah


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

JMHConstruction said:


> So you salt every time it gets below freezing, regardless of the conditions?


Not unheard of. 
Maybe @Defcon 5 could enlighten us on this, he's a pretty smart fella.

Or maybe just a fart smeller...


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I know Vancouver is alot warmer and gets very little snow, but how many times does it dip below 0 on average...just curious.

I do daily monitoring from Nov - May, but applications would only be about 40-50 times. Below 0 would be crazy, as its the norm here for that period.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mr.Markus said:


> I know Vancouver is alot warmer and gets very little snow, but how many times does it dip below 0 on average...just curious.
> 
> I do daily monitoring from Nov - May, but applications would only be about 40-50 times. Below 0 would be crazy, as its the norm here for that period.


Imperial or metric?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Imperial or metric?


Kelvin


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Imperial or metric?





Mark Oomkes said:


> Kelvin


Yes


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)




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## gcbailey (Jan 26, 2014)

And I thought us using Rankin was a tough....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Am I understanding this correctly...any time the temp drops below freezing you salt? Whether there's moisture or precipitation or not?


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

Yes, and wait 3 days in between.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

The plot thickens...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Rook said:


> Yes,


Why?



Rook said:


> wait 3 days in between.


Why?


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

That's what clients want over here, and salt lasts about 3 days.

It just occurred to me that it's not really necessary... So that's why I started this thread to see your opinions


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

And some people salt in Van as soon as it goes down to 1°C and below


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I wouldn't have to work the rest of the year


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

This seems insane to me, and that someone would pay for it. Definitely not something common here.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Rook said:


> That's what clients want over here, and salt lasts about 3 days.
> 
> It just occurred to me that it's not really necessary... So that's why I started this thread to see your opinions


I've heard of it before here, I was never on the lot nor did I see the contract, but there's people on this site that would know about it.

If you think about it though it kinda makes some sense.
Let's say you have some huge property with thousands of employees going into and out of, say like an automotive plant. People spill out their drinks, cars drip, someone turns the faucet on, whatever. If there is a slip and fall, at least the company can say they were proactive in salting the lot as opposed to if Hadn't been salted. That's the only reason I can think of as a reason for it to be included in a scope of work, could be wrong- pribabky is.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I've heard of it before here, I was never on the lot nor did I see the contract, but there's people on this site that would know about it.
> 
> If you think about it though it kinda makes some sense.
> Let's say you have some huge property with thousands of employees going into and out of, say like an automotive plant. People spill out their drinks, cars drip, someone turns the faucet on, whatever. If there is a slip and fall, at least the company can say they were proactive in salting the lot as opposed to if Hadn't been salted. That's the only reason I can think of as a reason for it to be included in a scope of work, could be wrong- pribabky is.


It makes no sense to me. The 3 day thing confuses me more. What about conditions, why does my stored salt not disappear after 3 days. Liquid apps i could see this perhaps making a bit of sense but still not the 3 day thing.

Pribabky will be my new user name when im banned.


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

To put into perspective our pricing here most companies charge two hour plow minimum ($400) total per visit, and salting 1-1.25$ per # of salt used

It's nuts lol


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

one of my buddies' friend that has one of the biggest snow removal companies over here cleared 500k in one season for a mall that's about 7 acres. And we only had 80cm of snow that year


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

Mr.Markus said:


> It makes no sense to me. The 3 day thing confuses me more. What about conditions, why does my stored salt not disappear after 3 days. Liquid apps i could see this perhaps making a bit of sense but still not the 3 day thing.
> Pribabky will be my new user name when im banned.


areas with lots of traffic pick up road salt in the tires


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## gcbailey (Jan 26, 2014)

We've got one site that we picked up this season that is somewhat similar... Govt agency with public access that sees probably between 800-3,000 per day in foot traffic (depending on time of month). 

At the front drop off and entrances they stated that their 0 tolerance requires the "perception" of seeing salt/de-icer/whatever, at all times (during working hours) whenever the temps get below freezing. 

It's just your tax dollars at work but "studies have been done" to prove that when people see salt/de-icer/etc.... they are more cautious and they have less fall claims. At least that's what I've been told to say........ 

During pricing I told them, you realize how much it's going to cost to keep putting out salt basically whenever one of your people think they need to see salt out there? They said "yes" and are fine with it. So am I......


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Environmental concerns


This town must be a dust bowl of corrosion.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Should be renamed un-ethical salting.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Rook said:


> and salting 1-1.25$ per # of salt used


So your customers are paying for salt applications every 3 days, and are paying $2,500 per ton?


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

Hell I’ll boat up there for 2k a ton.


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

JMHConstruction said:


> So your customers are paying for salt applications every 3 days, and are paying $2,500 per ton?


For bigger sites priced is lowered by about half.
I'm talking about lots that are 10-50k sq ft.

Bulk salt cost is $150-200/tonne. What's the going rate in your area?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Rook said:


> For bigger sites priced is lowered by about half.
> I'm talking about lots that are 10-50k sq ft.
> 
> Bulk salt cost is $150-200/tonne. What's the going rate in your area?


Not 2 grand not even 50% of that or 50% of that.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Not 2 grand not even 50% of that or 50% of that.


50% of that...?


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

so like 400/tonne? lol


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

$2000
$1000
$500


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

Just came across this:
https://www.straight.com/life/1331046/homeless-vancouver-winter-temperatures-come-flurries-salt

Pretty accurate of how things are done around these neck of the woods


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Rook said:


> Just came across this:
> https://www.straight.com/life/1331046/homeless-vancouver-winter-temperatures-come-flurries-salt
> 
> Pretty accurate of how things are done around these neck of the woods


That's nice to see the homeless are putting to gather stories/articles for the local media.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Neck of the woods...lol highest property values in Canada.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Ajlawn1 said:


> 50% of that...?


And 50% of that.


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

so you're getting 250/tonne???


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Rook said:


> so you're getting 250/tonne???


We're not paying $150-$200 a tonne.


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

so pay around 70-100/T and charge around 300-500? I suppose competition out there is huge


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Rook said:


> so pay around 70-100/T and charge around 300-500? I suppose competition out there is huge


Out where?


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

Eastern Canada/US


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/how-canadas-addiction-to-road-salt-is-ruining-everything

Building are collapsing cuz of salt usage.......WTH


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

This is crazy... I’d spend all summer in Hawaii if I was paid to do this. Y’all must be the reason salt is a hot commodity these days.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Wow......
I thought S E mich was bad.... this is insane.
Completely and totally out of touch with reality.
The 3 day rule might be crazier. Salt doesnt go away in 3 days, unless theres enough rain to wash it away. Otherwise, It's still there, the lot is just pure white.

I'd pay 1500 or more per ton if I could get 2500 to spread it.


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

JMHConstruction said:


> So your customers are paying for salt applications every 3 days, and are paying $2,500 per ton?


Sign me up!


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Could you imagine the environmental problems we would have in the USA if we all salted like that. Good grief!


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Mudly said:


> I guess if it's dry there's no reason to salt


Depends on your state/province. In NY we are a "reasonable care" state. Based on that vague title it's best to salt more often than not if there is any packed snow or water/ice. Even if you aren't sure, hit it. based on the cost of a slip and fall for our clients they gladly pay a few times a season to minimize the risk. I view it the same way as the contractor. I felt real safe when I had a slip and fall last season. We hit our service targets, had good photos, documents on salt applications. Our liability was zero because of going the extra mile.


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

Kvston said:


> Depends on your state/province. In NY we are a "reasonable care" state. Based on that vague title it's best to salt more often than not if there is any packed snow or water/ice. Even if you aren't sure, hit it. based on the cost of a slip and fall for our clients they gladly pay a few times a season to minimize the risk. I view it the same way as the contractor. I felt real safe when I had a slip and fall last season. We hit our service targets, had good photos, documents on salt applications. Our liability was zero because of going the extra mile.


Um, it's not dry then:hammerhead:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mudly said:


> Um, it's not dry then:hammerhead:


What????


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What????


Yeah


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

We got a dusting last night, and it was debated between 5 contractors whether to salt or not. It only stuck to cars and grass. Temps hovered around 31-34 degrees all night

No salt


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> We got a dusting last night, and it was debated between 5 contractors whether to salt or not. It only stuck to cars and grass. Temps hovered around 31-34 degrees all night
> 
> No salt


That's not very safe...or reducing your liability to zero.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

I’m not salting In August ..


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

1olddogtwo said:


> We got a dusting last night, and it was debated between 5 contractors whether to salt or not. It only stuck to cars and grass. Temps hovered around 31-34 degrees all night
> 
> No salt


We had the same dusting a few hours south of you. But temps were expected to drop to 27 and the surface temperature was right at 33. So I salted all my commercial accounts.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> We got a dusting last night, and it was debated between 5 contractors whether to salt or not. It only stuck to cars and grass. Temps hovered around 31-34 degrees all night
> 
> No salt


I'm just south of ya a few hours. I salted this morning. The dusting here ended up being a heavy haze that put some slick areas on the pavement. I dumped 500lbs this morning and it'll sit there all week while there is no precipitation fore casted. I figure it'll be good for the upcoming morning as this frost may happen in the upcoming days. The heavy air moisture falls to the ground during the day then sets up a very thin layer of ice.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> We got a dusting last night, and it was debated between 5 contractors whether to salt or not. It only stuck to cars and grass. Temps hovered around 31-34 degrees all night
> 
> No salt


You must have been inside the 3 day window of salting a dry lot.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> I'm not salting In August ..


Not even your fries?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That's not very safe...or reducing your liability to zero.


Left the house about 5 a.m. this morning i-80 and i-55. 1/2 on the deck/truck. Drive to my shop on the Southeast side of Chicago, zero snow, was supposed to be hit by lake effect. Took I-94 back to i-80 to I-57 South, taking i-70 West St Louis.

My truck is still black from lack of salt.

I don't think anyone salted.

Am I saying right or wrong no. Did I see a need for it., No


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Are those QuickCubes on your trailer?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

I thought you drove a retirement raptor?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

1olddogtwo said:


> Left the house about 5 a.m. this morning i-80 and i-55. 1/2 on the deck/truck. Drive to my shop on the Southeast side of Chicago, zero snow, was supposed to be hit by lake effect. Took I-94 back to i-80 to I-57 South, taking i-70 West St Louis.
> 
> My truck is still black from lack of salt.
> 
> ...


Got the baby trailer today....

By the way is that a QuickTrip?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Got the baby trailer today....
> 
> By the way is that a QuickTrip?


Looks like a bag of Fritos on the dash...


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not even your fries?


I switched to Ice melt, it's all the rage these days.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Are those QuickCubes on your trailer?


The Arctic equivalent.


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

I spoke to my city, they mentioned they but down brine every 2-3 days to help prevent black ice even if it's a dry day. I assume most of the contractors here just go by the city.. if the city does it, they do it too


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

I’m being unethical rn.


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

Loves ❤ s


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mudly said:


> I'm being unethical rn.


If ethical is salting when it's not needed, then I'm very unethical.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I'm leaving St Louis for home, it will be dark soon, I hope i-55 is salted.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> I'm leaving St Louis for home, it will be dark soon, I hope i-55 is salted.


Is it dry?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Are those QuickCubes on your trailer?


Of course, you never know where you run into untreated roads.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Is it dry?


Hungry salt doesn't care.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

1olddogtwo said:


> Of course, you never know where you run into untreated roads.


Whats the temperature...?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> Whats the temperature...?


Does it matter?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Does it matter?


No


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Hydromaster said:


> I'm not salting In August ..


Calcium works better anyways. At least for dust control...


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

1olddogtwo said:


> We got a dusting last night, and it was debated between 5 contractors whether to salt or not. It only stuck to cars and grass. Temps hovered around 31-34 degrees all night
> 
> No salt


Awesome network you've got there.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Applications every third day whether it needs it or not? Something wrong going on up there.


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

Care to enlighten how you masters do it?


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Rook said:


> Care to enlighten how you masters do it?


When it snows enough, freezing rain or better yet during slippery conditions we salt as needed.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> Left the house about 5 a.m. this morning i-80 and i-55. 1/2 on the deck/truck. Drive to my shop on the Southeast side of Chicago, zero snow, was supposed to be hit by lake effect. Took I-94 back to i-80 to I-57 South, taking i-70 West St Louis.
> 
> My truck is still black from lack of salt.
> 
> ...


Did you stop for some Heineken.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Rook said:


> Care to enlighten how you masters do it?


 wait just a minute, you came here asking if you thought it was ethical.
If it was published on the front page of a new paper, how do you think it would go over?


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> wait just a minute, you came here asking if you thought it was ethical.
> If it was published on the front page of a new paper, how do you think it would go over?


I don't understand your question


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Rook said:


> Care to enlighten how you masters do it?


Dry = safe lot. The dry safe lot is the objective.

Doesn't take much to understand that does it?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Rook said:


> Care to enlighten how you masters do it?


It's very simple...apply salt when it's slippery or very likely to be...not just cuz.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

It would be nice to not have to get up at 2am to check conditions because you know you salted earlier that day.


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

LapeerLandscape said:


> It would be nice to not have to get up at 2am to check conditions because you know you salted earlier that day.


Ive done this but the pending weather is eminent


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

LapeerLandscape said:


> It would be nice to not have to get up at 2am to check conditions because you know you salted earlier that day.


It would also be nice to be the OP's Salt supplier....


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

It's not just me it's everybody else in this city :weightlifter:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Rook said:


> It's not just me it's everybody else in this city :weightlifter:


If everyone jumped off a cliff would you follow?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> It would be nice to not have to get up at 2am to check conditions because you know you salted earlier that day.


I just thought of that...wonder if I can start being "ethical" and just salt every 3 days no matter what so I can get more sleep.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> If everyone jumped off a cliff would you follow?


Yes....


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

I once worked for a fella where we would salt away a 3”-5” inch storms...Just keep salting...This was a large high profile auto plant...Was that ethical??


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I once worked for a fella where we would salt away a 3"-5" inch storms...Just keep salting...This was a large high profile auto plant...Was that ethical??


Zero tolerance?

PS My Focus has a rusty hood...care to explain?


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Defcon 5 said:


> I once worked for a fella where we would salt away a 3"-5" inch storms...Just keep salting...This was a large high profile auto plant...Was that ethical??


Cars were rusting before they hit the dealership.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Zero tolerance?
> 
> PS My Focus has a rusty hood...care to explain?


Hood??...More like Roof


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

In the ops defense I think his contract asks him to.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mudly said:


> In the ops defense I think his contract asks him to.


I can interpret my contract that way.


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I can interpret my contract that way.


Thread derail..

I'm in your neck of the woods today! Headed over to Short iron fabrication in an hour.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Rook said:


> It's not just me it's everybody else in this city :weightlifter:


It's on par with the practice of taking money from people and not plowing at all, but, "everybody's doing it"....
The practice is so absurd, I wouldnt have believed it without the supporting news articles.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Luther said:


> Awesome network you've got there.


No....care to guess many text groups I have muted... Or shapchats....

One group has hours of morning reading alone.



SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Thread derail..
> 
> I'm in your neck of the woods today! Headed over to Short iron fabrication in an hour.


New pull plow?


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

1olddogtwo said:


> No....care to guess many text groups I have muted... Or shapchats....
> 
> One group has hours of morning reading alone.
> 
> New pull plow?


Yes sir. 8-16


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I can interpret my contract that way.


If I salted last night and plant trees today am I unethical


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mudly said:


> If I salted last night and plant trees today am I unethical


Not in Vancouver.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Snap chat. Lol
:laugh:


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Defcon 5 said:


> I once worked for a fella where we would salt away a 3"-5" inch storms...Just keep salting...This was a large high profile auto plant...Was that ethical??


Deja vu


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> Thread derail..
> 
> I'm in your neck of the woods today! Headed over to Short iron fabrication in an hour.


You should head over to the compound for lunch...


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You should head over to the compound for lunch...


I'm at the movie theater killing time lol


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

SchertzServicesLLC said:


> I'm at the movie theater killing time lol


Checking out mr Rodgers?


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

Freshwater said:


> It's on par with the practice of taking money from people and not plowing at all, but, "everybody's doing it"....
> The practice is so absurd, I wouldnt have believed it without the supporting news articles.


Some contractors salt every day when it's drops below 0. Facepalm.jpg


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Well it appears the city of Vancouver didn't do a good job of salting every three days a couple years ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-snow-removal-1.4458870


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Rook said:


> Some contractors salt every day when it's drops below 0. Facepalm.jpg


Still rationalizing....


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Well it appears the city of Vancouver didn't do a good job of salting every three days a couple years ago
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-snow-removal-1.4458870


You mean over the last decades. They never do residential streets lol


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## SchertzServicesLLC (Oct 17, 2017)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Checking out mr Rodgers?


Unfortunately I promised my wife unwound go with her to that. The only movie that was close to my show up time was "playing with fire" and it was so bad I walked out with 30 minutes left!


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

http://www.smartaboutsalt.com/


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So I'm confused, I don't recall the details but a good majority Of Kannada can not use pesticides anymore but Vancouver can salt dry pavement every 3 days just because?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So I'm confused, I don't recall the details but a good majority Of Kannada can not use pesticides anymore but Vancouver can salt dry pavement every 3 days just because?


Its based on wealth...
If you farm big acreage, golf or have a liability to be sued you can use whatever you want however you want....


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

salt and pesticides do not equal the same.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

they kind of are.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Im a strong believer in regulation, licence the applicators and take it away from home users. The problem here is they took pesticides away from licenced applicators, there is a whole underground network of homeowners applying under cover of night, subdivisions without weeds and commercial operations full of them. Nothing gets posted but you can smell the killex being used same product year after year, without rotation of something else and the weeds become tolerant. The ban was not implemented in a thought out way.
I see the same thing with salt, some of my sites with bins ,the salt gets dumped on the sidewalks by the bucketfull,by people who think it will melt 6 " of snow off the sidewalk.
Improper use is the downfall of these products unfortunately.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Hydromaster said:


> they kind of are.


Really? Is a RUP license required to apply salt? Better yet, is any applicators license required to apply salt in the US? I'm not aware if there is, but would be all ears to learn about this.

Also does sodium chloride pose the same health risks as pesticides? Are you required to wear PPE when applying salt?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> Really? Is a RUP license required to apply salt? Better yet, is any applicators license required to apply salt in the US? I'm not aware if there is, but would be all ears to learn about this.
> 
> Also does sodium chloride pose the same health risks as pesticides? Are you required to wear PPE when applying salt?


I think you need to do some reading on chloride in local watershed before you say anything else...

And then go inhale some Calcium Chloride for awhile and get back to is on how it doesn't have any health risks compared to pesticides...


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

rippinryno said:


> Really? Is a RUP license required to apply salt? Better yet, is any applicators license required to apply salt in the US? I'm not aware if there is, but would be all ears to learn about this.
> 
> Also does sodium chloride pose the same health risks as pesticides? Are you required to wear PPE when applying salt?


Soon you may need to wear a respirator and protective clothing.

http://www.elements.nb.ca/theme/transportation/salt/salt.htm

Anyway, As posted up for concerns of what salt(s) doing do to the environment in this day and age of climate change, this gets a lot of traction.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

rippinryno said:


> Really? Is a RUP license required to apply salt? Better yet, is any applicators license required to apply salt in the US? I'm not aware if there is, but would be all ears to learn about this.
> 
> Also does sodium chloride pose the same health risks as pesticides? Are you required to wear PPE when applying salt?


 There is no license for applying salt at least in NY. You can be fined for excessive salting though. A friend of mine was doing a outlet mall and the Female property manager was making him spread more salt then needed and paying him extra for it.

The property had a retention pond that dumped into a ditch. The the DEC seen the burnt grass in the ditch and gave the mall a fine and he got a warning.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hydromaster said:


> this gets a lot of traction


Ha!


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So I'm confused, I don't recall the details but a good majority Of Kannada can not use pesticides anymore but Vancouver can salt dry pavement every 3 days just because?


Not to bag on canada but... they did trace the algea blooms in lake Erie to overuse of pesticides, with canada being the bigger culprit.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

rippinryno said:


> Really? Is a RUP license required to apply salt? Better yet, is any applicators license required to apply salt in the US? I'm not aware if there is, but would be all ears to learn about this.
> 
> Also does sodium chloride pose the same health risks as pesticides? Are you required to wear PPE when applying salt?


They're similar in the fact that in excess they're both harmfull... to the environment at a minimum. I dont think anybody will be surprised to find out salt is harmful to human health... again in excess.

The practices in Vancouver and elsewhere, will most certainly lead to a harsh regulatory crack down.


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

No wonder there’s no shortage of work.


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Mudly said:


> Um, it's not dry then:hammerhead:


The point being, if you are unsure, hit the lot/walk. Sometimes you don't see the ice. Be thorough and err on the side of caution. As a professional you are there to minimize risk and provide convenience for the client. Be smart, be cautious, be in communication with the managers. Protect yourself and your client.


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

Kvston said:


> The point being, if you are unsure, hit the lot/walk. Sometimes you don't see the ice. Be thorough and err on the side of caution. As a professional you are there to minimize risk and provide convenience for the client. Be smart, be cautious, be in communication with the managers. Protect yourself and your client.


Communication is a old wives tale. It's comprehension that unlocks the door.


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## number1fan (Oct 8, 2008)

1olddogtwo said:


> We got a dusting last night, and it was debated between 5 contractors whether to salt or not. It only stuck to cars and grass. Temps hovered around 31-34 degrees all night
> 
> No salt


We had one of these on Tuesday evening, we had salted 36hours prior and deemed it unessasary. This is not a seasonal contract.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

number1fan said:


> We had one of these on Tuesday evening, we had salted 36hours prior and deemed it unessasary. This is not a seasonal contract.


 Per trip or seasonal contract, You are equally responsible for a safe surface for slip and fall etc.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

number1fan said:


> We had one of these on Tuesday evening, we had salted 36hours prior and deemed it unessasary. This is not a seasonal contract.


The amount of time is irrelevant, their will be times the residual salt will carry the next event, and times where it doesnt. Salting should always be judged by conditions at hand, in real time. This is not a service that can simply be automated, it's way to complex. 
As fred said, the decision to service should never be decided by how they pay. Seasonal or per push or hourly etc. That only changes how I do the paperwork, and when I send the bill.


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

I think at the end of the day, if your parking lot is still white at the end of a storm, you over salted. Contract or not. Slipping and falling on salt is a real thing.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mudly said:


> I think at the end of the day, if your parking lot is still white at the end of a storm, you over salted. Contract or not. Slipping and falling on salt is a real thing.


Snow is white too you know...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Guaranteeing bare pavement is a issue, I never guarantee bare pavement. I realize a lot of clients squawk and we aim to please. Salt present is what it's about.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

Query then:

1-2" snowfall forecasted to fall beginning at 5-6am, duration to be through the morning rush hour. Temperatures are forecasted to begin just below freezing, and warming to above freezing once snow is completed. Do you:

A. Dispatch crews for 4 am start, that way they can begin salting when snow arrives, and ensure safe(r) conditions through the morning rush? To have this accomplished means starting at least one hour before the snow is scheduled to begin fallling, and radar verifies that it is on it's way.

B. Wait until snow begins to accumulate, then send crews out with some accumulation already forming, and salt through rush hour until sites are safe(r). Thereby also risking that potential pedestrians on said sites/locations are to traverse through accumulating snow on their way into work?

C. Wait until snow completes, then address any accumulation through plowing and/or salting. The risk associated is the greatest for potential slip claims, as no treatment is done until after reaching trigger amount for plowing or completion of snowfall.

This is a scenario that is common - we faced it this morning. I have always preferred a pro-active approach, as it addresses any risk resulting from accumulating snow (yes, there's still a risk from salt spread on the surface causing an unsafe condition). To be re-active appears to have more exposure to risk. And the final approach would be (IMHDAO) adverse to minimizing risk exposure. With the environment around insurance, I would lean to option A.

The opposing problem becomes when the weather doesn't transpire as forecasted (it could even be seen on radar progressing our way), and temperatures rise to above freezing before the moisture arrives, and salt applications have already occurred. Yes, I would have rather not spread salt at all, and saved the expense of salting while not contributing to the environmental concerns expressed here. But how can that be done while still ensuring safe(r) conditions and appeasing the insurance industry that due dilligence is being performed?


----------



## gcbailey (Jan 26, 2014)

GMC Driver said:


> Query then:
> 
> 1-2" snowfall forecasted to fall beginning at 5-6am, duration to be through the morning rush hour. Temperatures are forecasted to begin just below freezing, and warming to above freezing once snow is completed. Do you:
> 
> ...


Brine pretreating has been a good friend to us since we added it.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

gcbailey said:


> Brine pretreating has been a good friend to us since we added it.


Brine/liquid is also in our arsenal, but wasn't sure it would be enough to address the projected "snowfall" amount. Also had rain in the forecast for later today and early next week.


----------



## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

GMC Driver said:


> Query then:
> 
> 1-2" snowfall forecasted to fall beginning at 5-6am, duration to be through the morning rush hour. Temperatures are forecasted to begin just below freezing, and warming to above freezing once snow is completed. Do you:
> 
> ...


Great scenario....
I'm an A guy myself. I'll live with the few times mother nature pulling the football away before the kick. 
I'm not however salting 3 days later just because its below freezing. 
I


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

GMC Driver said:


> Query then:
> 
> 1-2" snowfall forecasted to fall beginning at 5-6am, duration to be through the morning rush hour. Temperatures are forecasted to begin just below freezing, and warming to above freezing once snow is completed. Do you:
> 
> ...


D. Start at 3 AM because we can't make it through our routes before rush hour if we start at 4.


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Mr.Markus said:


> Im a strong believer in regulation, licence the applicators and take it away from home users. The problem here is they took pesticides away from licenced applicators, there is a whole underground network of homeowners applying under cover of night, subdivisions without weeds and commercial operations full of them. Nothing gets posted but you can smell the killex being used same product year after year, without rotation of something else and the weeds become tolerant. The ban was not implemented in a thought out way.
> I see the same thing with salt, some of my sites with bins ,the salt gets dumped on the sidewalks by the bucketfull,by people who think it will melt 6 " of snow off the sidewalk.
> Improper use is the downfall of these products unfortunately.


A lot of homeowners close enough to Niagara Falls / Buffalo simply go over the border and purchase the pesticides and bring them back into Ontario. Considering it's a provincial ban on pesticides the federal border agents don't care.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

GMC Driver said:


> Query then:
> 
> 1-2" snowfall forecasted to fall beginning at 5-6am, duration to be through the morning rush hour. Temperatures are forecasted to begin just below freezing, and warming to above freezing once snow is completed. Do you:
> 
> ...


Great scenario, dealt with this today. Sort of went with A. Salted lightly to have something down before / at the beginning of the system to avoid hard pack on the walkways / parking lots. Scraped down when the triggers began, again salted lightly on areas that were cleared. Will go out for cleanups later and salt (lightly) the cleanup areas. Find I end up using about 1.5x what I would normally use during an event that I could get cleared up before morning.... brine would probably be a better approach for pre / beginning of storm.


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

That’s all fine and dandy, then a mid day storm shows up. And lake effect never shows up on radar in sling shot mode.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mudly said:


> That's all fine and dandy, then a mid day storm shows up. And lake effect never shows up on radar in sling shot mode.


Take a look at the app called radar scope, it does a decent job of showing LE bands


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I started salting as soon as it started snowing, I only do about 6 acres of parking lots. When I went to reload the snow had slowed about 6 am and the lots were looking good but it was still accumulating. One of my sites is the diner so I had some breakfast, then hit everything with salt again and it worked and held everything 7cm total. Driveways all got a full push starting at 8am, some as much as 15cm to the south of my route. Muffler fell off the truck on the way home, broke off at the DPF,
couldn't actually fall off so it fell against the driveshaft. Strapped it to the frame and some handy guys at the garage got me in and helped me out. Little heavy and awkward for 1 guy to handle. Decent day, I enjoyed it. I give it a +8 only cause of the muffler thing...


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Take a look at the app called radar scope, it does a decent job of showing LE bands


Ok. It doesnt predict it does it? Cuz that would be awesome


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mudly said:


> Ok. It doesnt predict it does it? Cuz that would be awesome


No, it lets you see where the bands are setting up tho.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> I started salting as soon as it started snowing, I only do about 6 acres of parking lots. When I went to reload the snow had slowed about 6 am and the lots were looking good but it was still accumulating. One of my sites is the diner so I had some breakfast, then hit everything with salt again and it worked and held everything 7cm total. Driveways all got a full push starting at 8am, some as much as 15cm to the south of my route. Muffler fell off the truck on the way home, broke off at the DPF,
> couldn't actually fall off so it fell against the driveshaft. Strapped it to the frame and some handy guys at the garage got me in and helped me out. Little heavy and awkward for 1 guy to handle. Decent day, I enjoyed it. I give it a +8 only cause of the muffler thing...


You should really consider buying a new truck...


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You should really consider buying a new truck...


I ordered one...probably shouldnt have taken it to the dealer to do so.
I think she heard me...


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

Mark Oomkes said:


> D. Start at 3 AM because we can't make it through our routes before rush hour if we start at 4.


I pre-loaded last night. Finally got the 10 yard hydro up and running - that saves any reloading now.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

GMC Driver said:


> I pre-loaded last night. Finally got the 10 yard hydro up and running - that saves any reloading now.


Pics or it didn't happen.


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

Per acre, are you guys spreading 1/4 ton of salt?


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

Rook said:


> Per acre, are you guys spreading 1/4 ton of salt?


Little low, how cold u thinking.


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## Rook (Nov 29, 2019)

Let's say 1. treating to prevent black ice and 2. Laying down salt after a snow plow session


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Rook said:


> Per acre, are you guys spreading 1/4 ton of salt?


 800 LBS per acre. Little over kill that's a good spread, I use that for bidding but normally don't spread that much per acre.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Rook said:


> Let's say 1. treating to prevent black ice and 2. Laying down salt after a snow plow session


For a minute there I thought you were spreading 2 tons per acre after an event.


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## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

GMC Driver said:


> Query then:
> 
> 1-2" snowfall forecasted to fall beginning at 5-6am, duration to be through the morning rush hour. Temperatures are forecasted to begin just below freezing, and warming to above freezing once snow is completed. Do you:
> 
> ...


We faced this very scenario on Tuesday morning. Absolute chaos. We service over 90 commercial lots, majority of which expect that snow will somehow not impact their day at all.

We had crews in for 2 am, pretreated majority of properties with magic, walks with product, and then we waited.

Snow arrived later then forecasted and dumped around an inch + per hour during the commute. Talk bout chaos. We scraped and treated immediately behind on both walks and lots as an attempt to buy more time, but it really was a futile effort.

Snow lingered all morning but we eventually were able to scrape and treat enough to call it a day until everything emptied out later that night.

I'm still dealing with customers who can't understand why their lot wasn't plowed and ready to go for 7am. I'm not quite sure how else to explain that the storm didn't turn on until 5am and their lot was touched at 6.

Takeaway from all of this.....Customers are never happy with a daytime event, and there is no such thing as too much material being thrown if its during a daytime event and heavy snow rates.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

abbe said:


> We faced this very scenario on Tuesday morning. Absolute chaos. We service over 90 commercial lots, majority of which expect that snow will somehow not impact their day at all.
> 
> We had crews in for 2 am, pretreated majority of properties with magic, walks with product, and then we waited.
> 
> ...


Snow stopped at 10:30 AM yesterday. I was there at 1 PM to clear the snow (not to mention laying down salt earlier in the storm).... they are closed on Friday's in December for machine repairs and product testing... been plowing the building for 5 years, know the schedule by now... building/ business owner (only car in the lot) flags me down to remind me that they usually start at 5:45 AM. I thanked him.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Pics or it didn't happen.[/QUOTE


Pic of how it arrived from Fort Worth, TX. Pic of it unloaded. Pic of it installed on truck.

Need anything else?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

That's some serious skin!!!

Very nice, but you might give @Defcon 5 a widow maker..


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Wowser!!!
Not sure how many yards this one is.
But it allows for plenty of unethical salting...


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## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Lots of ethical salting in both rigs!


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

abbe said:


> Takeaway from all of this.....Customers are never happy with a daytime event, and there is no such thing as too much material being thrown if its during a daytime event and heavy snow rates.


I disagree ime. You put down to much salt during a storm and won't be back for hrs you're creating a very heavy ice layer from diluted salinization. Put down just enough to keep it from adhering to the pavement, end of story.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That's some serious skin!!!


Not bad - RB past auctions might say how much. Cost me more to get it home. A few hoses, diverter valve, and a dedicated hooklift deck - I'm into it for 1/4 the price of new.


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

GMC Driver said:


> Not bad - RB past auctions might say how much. Cost me more to get it home. A few hoses, diverter valve, and a dedicated hooklift deck - I'm into it for 1/4 the price of new.


Do you have to ramp it to load it?


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

Mudly said:


> Do you have to ramp it to load it?


I will - on this week's list. The 644 is home right now, it reaches. But it won't be here all winter either.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Snowing and below freezing...is it ethical to salt now?


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Snowing and below freezing...is it ethical to salt now?


You should salt as much as your customers will pay unless its a seasonal account then no salt.


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## gcbailey (Jan 26, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> You should salt as much as your customers will pay unless its a seasonal account then no salt.


Now that's an ethical question.... What if your client needs salt but can't afford it /won't pay for it. Who's liability comes into okay then?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mid 40's and rain yesterday, then temps dropped, 16 right now and no salt dropped.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

GMC Driver said:


> Pic of how it arrived from Fort Worth, TX. Pic of it unloaded. Pic of it installed on truck.
> 
> Need anything else?
> 
> ...


Should have mounted on a sleeper truck.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

LapeerLandscape said:


> You should salt as much as your customers will pay unless its a seasonal account then no salt.


What if your seasonals did pay...?


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> What if your seasonals did pay...?


Its kind of an inside joke. A company here will salt when its not needed or very very questionable but as I drive around I noticed they only salted their per app accounts.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Its kind of an inside joke. A company here will salt when its not needed or very very questionable but as I drive around I noticed they only salted their per app accounts.


No I knew what you meant... Sad thing is I did the ethical thing and called off our 3am salt run and now it's freaking snowing...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> 16 right now and no salt dropped.


Why not? It's below freezing and well, you know...it's the thing to do.


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Ajlawn1 said:


> No I knew what you meant... Sad thing is I did the ethical thing and called off our 3am salt run and now it's freaking snowing...


----------



## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> No I knew what you meant... Sad thing is I did the ethical thing and called off our 3am salt run and now it's freaking snowing...


Made that mistake the other day. Flipped and flopped on forecasts. New policy is once it's been scheduled, they are getting the service.

It's too much coordination to get everyone lined up for a overnight start, just to try and cancel 1-2 hours before. Just for it to end up being needed after all.

Our New England weathermen are so hit or miss that I'm going to be going on the side of caution from now on and getting those treatments in.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

abbe said:


> Our New England weathermen


It's not just them...


----------



## gcbailey (Jan 26, 2014)

Meteorologist.... The only job you can be wrong 90% of the time and still keep your job.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> Should have mounted on a sleeper truck.


 Class act there.


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

gcbailey said:


> Meteorologist.... The only job you can be wrong 90% of the time and still keep your job.


Politicians to.


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## gcbailey (Jan 26, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Politicians to.


 No... They can be up to 100%..... Most meteorologist still have at least one person to be accountable to.


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why not?


For ethical reasons


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> For ethical reasons


Understood


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Salt doesnt just disappear in 3 days. The parking lots end up looking like this. The granules have just flattened down into a solid white parking lot. It got down to 16 degrees last night, with no precipitation. Even untreated lots didnt need salting, let alone this one. In Vancouver however all lots would have looked like this and been salted anyway. That's worse than unethical.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Freshwater said:


> Salt doesnt just disappear in 3 days. The parking lots end up looking like this. The granules have just flattened down into a solid white parking lot. It got down to 16 degrees last night, with no precipitation. Even untreated lots didnt need salting, let alone this one. In Vancouver however all lots would have looked like this and been salted anyway. That's worse than unethical.
> View attachment 198729


A good number of lots look like that around here, including many of ours.

Yesterday was difficult. Our lake effect is generally very light with low moisture content, but it is also difficult to determine when it is going to stop. We were touching up early yesterday morning and some areas had close to a half inch while others stayed bare or some flurries. We went as light as possible then it ramped up again from about 8-10 AM. I chose not to go out again even though some areas had a dusting of snow on them. Sun came out around 1130-1200 and everything out of the shade disappeared. Still didn't go light enough and lots ended up with salt residue.

It isn't possible to be right all the time.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> A good number of lots look like that around here, including many of ours.
> 
> Yesterday was difficult. Our lake effect is generally very light with low moisture content, but it is also difficult to determine when it is going to stop. We were touching up early yesterday morning and some areas had close to a half inch while others stayed bare or some flurries. We went as light as possible then it ramped up again from about 8-10 AM. I chose not to go out again even though some areas had a dusting of snow on them. Sun came out around 1130-1200 and everything out of the shade disappeared. Still didn't go light enough and lots ended up with salt residue.
> 
> It isn't possible to be right all the time.


i know someone thats wrong all the time.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Agree with Mark...Those pictures are what I call a defense against the next snow shower...I bet when that was salted it was snowing and sticking...Gotta hedge your bet sometimes and just do it


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> i know someone thats wrong all the time.


I know several people like that


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Agree with Mark...


What??????????????????????????????

I need your defibrillator...


----------



## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

I agree with both of you. My point was about salt not just disappearing. This is an example of what a lot looks like when it doesnt need to be salted again. I believe that neither one of you would salt this again untill it really needed it. Or especially tonight when we get nothing, but it's just cold. That would be 3 days.


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## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What??????????????????????????????
> 
> I need your defibrillator...


Clear!!


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What??????????????????????????????
> 
> I need your defibrillator...


Since I idolize you I must agree with you once in a while....


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Defcon 5 said:


> Since I idolize you I must agree with you once in a while....


You're up early, going to do some ethical pre salting before Monday's blizzard?


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> You're up early, going to do some ethical pre salting before Monday's blizzard?


No...Very Bizzie being a concrete monkey...Doing a Ginormous floor at a Chrysler facility....


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Defcon 5 said:


> No...Very Bizzie being a concrete monkey...Doing a Ginormous floor at a Chrysler facility....


Do you think a mini plant would be feasible on fantasy island given the bridge situation?


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Do you think a mini plant would be feasible on fantasy island given the bridge situation?


Yes....But good luck getting permits and approval from the Monarch that rules that island


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> You're up early, going to do some ethical pre salting before Monday's blizzard?


A blizzard Monday?

What Monday? Where? Who says?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Defcon 5 said:


> No...Very Bizzie being a concrete monkey...Doing a Ginormous floor at a Chrysler facility....


You're in Mexico...!!!


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mr.Markus said:


> You're in Mexico...!!!


No, didn't you hear the trade deal passed and all plants are coming back to the USA.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Freshwater said:


> Salt doesnt just disappear in 3 days. The parking lots end up looking like this. The granules have just flattened down into a solid white parking lot. It got down to 16 degrees last night, with no precipitation. Even untreated lots didnt need salting, let alone this one. In Vancouver however all lots would have looked like this and been salted anyway. That's worse than unethical.
> View attachment 198729


IF that's bad, or unethical, or worse than the worst then my entire state would take the cake. Every single parking lot looks just like that after snow or ice. our problem is that we get more freezing rain and ice that is much more dangerous than snow. 2 inches of freezing garbage requires some major salting and then it melts, dries, and you have the leftover.


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## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

All i know is i'm about to do some serious ethical salting with my 50 cent per bag pool salt on Monday morning. Should leave very little residual and melt the ice/snow much faster than the big chunks.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

yeah, this one has run it's course for sure, so I will do the ethical thing and close this out...


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