# 10 years at same rate what would you do?



## WRIGHTWAY (Nov 17, 2005)

Been plowing this for the last 4 years when I took this account I matched the price of there previous contractor who plowed it for I think 6 years that’s 10 years at the same rate 

This is +/-2325ft long on a 2in trigger up to three times a day but I try not to do it more than 2 to keep there cost down road is $70.00 per push
I also have 5 driveway accounts that I plow every time I do the road at $15 per push cheap but im already there 

A little back ground 
Previous contractor is a friend of mine and of the condo president 
Condo president was my brother in-law 


As of 10/31/09 I was informed by the previous president that the condo association has elected new officials as of 10/30/09 and is going to take bids on the snow plowing 
He also stated that he does not know the going rate but I might want to drop my price some to keep the acc:laughing:
My reply to that was they might not be happy with next guy if he’s cheaper than that 

My? To you guys is aren’t I already to low on this
we only gave this price to help my brother in-law get his development off the ground


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

So that's just under a half mile then? How many passes does it take to clear? How much time does it take? Plowing a street going forward all the time is very easy for you and your truck. I'd say I'd like to get $100 per hour plowing but since this is so easy you will probably have to go lower than that to be competetive.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

well, better raise him now then.
that's really annoying
10 years at the same rate and they want to go look for bids???
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 

i do a 1/3 of a mile road (4 passes, 1 cul-de-sac) and it takes me about 20 minutes.
I charge similar to your price, but I"m going to raise them next year, it's out of the way.

I think mine is easier, straight one way road. (up and back, up and back, done)

oh, I do see you are in Michigan, Michigan rates are pretty low.
Maybe charge more for the driveways.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

I bid a .5mile road last year at $75 and the guy said if I can't go lower I won't get it. I said no thanks and he said the winning bid was $39.


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## KingDuramax (Nov 26, 2005)

if your happy with your price stick to it. If not raise it. If you get beat they told someone who they are friends with what you do it for and they under cut you to get it. So no matter what you bid they will get it anyhow.


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## cameo89 (Dec 8, 2007)

I think it's a fair price, keep ur charge the same, let them bid, and if they win, give the condo ur # so they can call you when the under bidder screws up the job! Good luck to you! Happy Plowing


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## WRIGHTWAY (Nov 17, 2005)

JDiepstra;847679 said:


> How many passes does it take to clear?


At 2in it takes 5 passes with 6in I want to say it took 7 passes their no over charge for deep snow on the road or the driveways


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## ERICS LAWN CARE (Oct 19, 2009)

so how long does it take?


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## ERICS LAWN CARE (Oct 19, 2009)

i agree charge more for the driveways; let them try and get someone for 15 dollars a pop--oh wait, they probably will, maybe some guy with a beat up truck will do them for $9 dollars each; too bad you couldnt find him and sub them out!! pay him $12 lol


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## WRIGHTWAY (Nov 17, 2005)

Id say it takes 45min on average to do the road 

Opps I messed up the length of the road I scaled it off the pic but I have been home sick with the H1N1 so I have not been on my game 

Pulled out the survey I have with the lots road frontages and it adds up to 3051ft


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

The way things are in MI, same price as 10 years ago is about right. 

I'd be happy to have it.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Don't go any cheaper! Holy crap! I can't believe what your plowing that for. If someone else wants to do it for less, let them


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## WRIGHTWAY (Nov 17, 2005)

Well I contacted the new president on 11/4/09

Me = I heard from the previous president that you're the man to talk to for the snowplowing.
Condo pres = oh yeah I guess if were taking bids we might as well get one from you.
Me = ok well my bid is 70.00 same as before. 
Condo pres = ok thanks for your bid im waiting on 4 other bid and we will know after are meeting on the 13th

Got his phone call yesterday the 23

Condo pres = hi Joe sorry it took a little longer its amazing how hard it is to get people to tell you how much money they want to make any way we would be more than happy to have you keep doing the plowing

Kinda sounds like I was done in till they seen the other bids:laughing:

Any way I want thank every one who for the input you gave


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

I was just having this same conversation with a friend who hasn't raised his prices in quite a few years and now he is debating due to the economy. Here's my thought's....If you decide to raise them after ten years they're going to think one of two things. First they're going to think you have been screwing them for the past 9 years and will go look for new bids, OR they're just going to be pissed you had to raise them 20,30,40% or however much you decide and they think your trying to screw them now. Either way your between a rock and hard place. I lost an account years and years ago because I left the price the same for a few years and needed to raise them by about 15% and needless to say they went looking elsewhere. People don't care if you tried to give them a break for the past few years (they have a short memory) they just care about now.


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

*very grey area in these economic times .no leg to stand on type of deal . i'm in the same predicament at 2 sites , you can approach with the " cost of living or inflation , material upcharge " . 
take your pick and good luck !*


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

I raised 90% of my resi's this year..... not a single complaint and I've got them all!.... As a matter of fact, I had a few ask me "I was wondering when you were going to increase your rates".... Quality of service also goes along way when you have to raise rates.


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## carlriv2 (Oct 15, 2001)

If you can do it up to 3 times a day I would make sure I do that on larger storms. Might as well get paid for the work and not worry so much about their cost.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Brian Young;874130 said:


> I was just having this same conversation with a friend who hasn't raised his prices in quite a few years and now he is debating due to the economy. Here's my thought's....If you decide to raise them after ten years they're going to think one of two things. First they're going to think you have been screwing them for the past 9 years and will go look for new bids, OR they're just going to be pissed you had to raise them 20,30,40% or however much you decide and they think your trying to screw them now. Either way your between a rock and hard place. I lost an account years and years ago because I left the price the same for a few years and needed to raise them by about 15% and needless to say they went looking elsewhere. People don't care if you tried to give them a break for the past few years (they have a short memory) they just care about now.


I agree with this, in a normal economy.

However, we have been in a recession\depression in this state since 2001. I was able to bump rates every other year approximately.

This ain't happening anymore. I just got back from a customer that we started with last year, gave them a great deal--using pricing I would have 10 years ago (long story)--and he wants to know why the other 3 bids are lower than mine. One is 37% lower than mine.

THIRTY SEVEN FREAKIN' PERCENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The a-hole that bid came from is at $55\hour. This same a-hole was told by his bookkeeper about 8 years ago that he has to charge a minimum of $80\hour for a truck. Now he's $25 less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gotta give a big thanks to John Allin for showing others how you can totally f up this industry.

Sorry, needed to vent.


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

carlriv2;874183 said:


> If you can do it up to 3 times a day I would make sure I do that on larger storms. Might as well get paid for the work and not worry so much about their cost.


dont want to lose customer either


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## carlriv2 (Oct 15, 2001)

I agree you dont want ot loose the customer, but on larger storms when it makes sense it should be done.


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

*yes , mr. Allin is a professor in the field . but the field unfortunately isn't regulated . so , therefore , we have to battle for a rate . so , $100.00 per hr. (plow / spreader /operator) may seem low in your region where it is astronomical , say the further south you go . *


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## WRIGHTWAY (Nov 17, 2005)

Deco;874197 said:


> dont want to lose customer either


I in no way want to ever take advantage of a customer and have always tried to use a commonsense approach of if I was paying for it what would make me happy

That being said I probably will hit it the 3rd time 
And I foresee at lest a 5% pr yr increase coming there way from now on 
Judging by the change in his attitude I must have been quite low


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

*Bad economy or not*

Yes, the MI economy has been in bad shape for many years now. However, your costs per hour of operation must be met regardless of the economy. Don't put yourself out of business by under-selling your service.

Calculate your costs per hour of operation so you know your break-even point. Not that any of us want to work for break-even money, but at least you won't sell your service below costs. Surely the economy will get better soon. Let's hope so anyway.

Good luck guys.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Wayne Volz;874867 said:


> Yes, the MI economy has been in bad shape for many years now. However, your costs per hour of operation must be met regardless of the economy. Don't put yourself out of business by under-selling your service.
> 
> Calculate your costs per hour of operation so you know your break-even point. Not that any of us want to work for break-even money, but at least you won't sell your service below costs. Surely the economy will get better soon. Let's hope so anyway.
> 
> Good luck guys.


No ****?

I never knew this, thanks for the info.

Thought it was just dumb luck that we've been in business since 1932.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Multi year contract with a built in 2 1/2% yearly price increase, then on the resign year your price increase can be minimal or even nothing, because the auto increases built in the contract keep you in-line with inflation.payup


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

basher;875500 said:


> Multi year contract with a built in 2 1/2% yearly price increase, then on the resign year your price increase can be minimal or even nothing, because the auto increases built in the contract keep you in-line with inflation.payup


Bingo !!!!!


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;874195 said:


> This ain't happening anymore. I just got back from a customer that we started with last year, gave them a great deal--using pricing I would have 10 years ago (long story)--and he wants to know why the other 3 bids are lower than mine. One is 37% lower than mine.
> 
> THIRTY SEVEN FREAKIN' PERCENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


i hear ya...i just got out bid too by 35%...oh well what are you going to do though, ya know? it sucks but got move on to the next lot and hope that either the service comes to bite that lot in the a$$ or the guy just gives up thats trying to plow it


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

Mark Oomkes;875443 said:


> No ****?
> 
> I never knew this, thanks for the info.
> 
> Thought it was just dumb luck that we've been in business since 1932.


*This post was not intended for you. * But as normal you chime in with a sarcastic response. This was a response to another post ahead of yours requesting pricing info. Rather than telling someone what to charge like you seem to do very frequently without knowing someones actual costs, I try to give them methodology to calculate costs based on their use-rates, overhead and expenses. However, with your attitude I am extremely surprised you have made it since 1932. Someone along the way, probably your Father (based on some of your comments about his experience) understands the business side of the business pretty well. So actually yes, you have had some luck.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Wayne Volz;875745 said:


> *This post was not intended for you. * But as normal you chime in with a sarcastic response. This was a response to another post ahead of yours requesting pricing info. Rather than telling someone what to charge like you seem to do very frequently without knowing someones actual costs, I try to give them methodology to calculate costs based on their use-rates, overhead and expenses. However, with your attitude I am extremely surprised you have made it since 1932. Someone along the way, probably your Father (based on some of your comments about his experience) understands the business side of the business pretty well. So actually yes, you have had some luck.


So do you want to be BFF's or what?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Wayne Volz;875745 said:


> *This post was not intended for you. * ... [/COLOR]


Pretty sure when you put a reply up on a thread, it's there for everyone.

And Mark's post reinforces what you are saying. If you know your costs and what to charge, you can have a success. In Mark's case, 77 years.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Wayne Volz;875745 said:


> This post was not intended for you. But as normal you chime in with a sarcastic response. This was a response to another post ahead of yours requesting pricing info. Rather than telling someone what to charge like you seem to do very frequently without knowing someones actual costs, I try to give them methodology to calculate costs based on their use-rates, overhead and expenses. However, with your attitude I am extremely surprised you have made it since 1932. Someone along the way, probably your Father (based on some of your comments about his experience) understands the business side of the business pretty well. So actually yes, you have had some luck.


Since when does Mark tell anyone what to charge or give out prices? 



2COR517;875786 said:


> Pretty sure when you put a reply up on a thread, it's there for everyone.
> 
> And Mark's post reinforces what you are saying. If you know your costs and what to charge, you can have a success. In Mark's case, 77 years.


LOL 77 years? We all knw he is only 15 years old.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

cretebaby;876720 said:


> LOL 77 years? We all knw he is only 15 years old.


Snap, I forgot..


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

cretebaby;876720 said:


> LOL 77 years? We all know *S*he is only 15 years old.


Fixed it.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Wayne Volz;875745 said:


> *This post was not intended for you. * But as normal you chime in with a sarcastic response. This was a response to another post ahead of yours requesting pricing info. Rather than telling someone what to charge like you seem to do very frequently without knowing someones actual costs, I try to give them methodology to calculate costs based on their use-rates, overhead and expenses. However, with your attitude I am extremely surprised you have made it since 1932. Someone along the way, probably your Father (based on some of your comments about his experience) understands the business side of the business pretty well. So actually yes, you have had some luck.


I have to agree with crete, Mark does not do this. He will give a tongue in cheek response which is normally designed to get someone to think, and yes he can be sarcastic.

15 year old girls do have mood swings.........


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

2COR517;875786 said:


> Pretty sure when you put a reply up on a thread, it's there for everyone.
> 
> And Mark's post reinforces what you are saying. If you know your costs and what to charge, you can have a success. In Mark's case, 77 years.


An you call me old:laughing:


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

basher;876752 said:


> An you call me old:laughing:


It's not just me, ole man.......


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

basher;876752 said:


> An you call me old:laughing:





2COR517;876765 said:


> It's not just me, ole man.......


You guys are both old.

How's that?


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## GatorDL55 (Jan 18, 2008)

basher;875500 said:


> Multi year contract with a built in 2 1/2% yearly price increase, then on the resign year your price increase can be minimal or even nothing, because the auto increases built in the contract keep you in-line with inflation.payup


you'll have to charge more than 2.5% now...just to keep up with inflation.


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