# Pump fluid



## greatlawns (Oct 24, 2006)

Hey everyone,

I've been plowing for a couple years now, but until now have been using a Meyer plow with Meyer fluid. I recently got a used (excellent condition) Western 7-1/2' plow for my Tahoe and have another of the same Western on my '94 Ford F250. Both are filled with red "ATF" style fluid, but I was told by a plow shop to put in the Fisher fluid because it has antifreeze in it. They told me that if I just add that to the existing fluid, it will gel up and cause the pump not to work. They said to drain the fluid from the pump, disconnect the lines to the angle rams and drain all of the fluid and then add the Fisher stuff. I am afraid of not getting it all out and then causing myself bigger problems by using this Fisher fluid.

Is all this necessary? Will it really gel up? If so, would I just be better off getting the red ATF fluid and topping it off? Is there really any major difference between the Meyer, Fisher, Western fluid? Thanks for the help, this is a great site!


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

This is not a slam but Boss fluid is best then Meyer's they have a flush also, fisher etc 
the cheep blue sstuff etc.

You can use ATF a lot of folks do and have for years.
Atf can get to thick if the temps fall below O.

I think the dealer was just trying to get you to have them do the fluid change.

You should have no problems with the fluid gelling.

Just drain out the old fluid as you mentioned and refill.



Welcome to PlowSite:waving:


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## BobC (Nov 5, 2004)

I have BOSS and would love to use their fluid because of the low temp. flow. But my Boss dealers haven't bothered to get any quarts in the last 2 months. Love my plow but are unhappy with dealers (2) lack of support products. Boss needs to make sure dealers carry stock or give to another dealer.


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## cincy snowdog (Dec 19, 2005)

few westerns here we use atf and never a problem,if you ever do, just heat the pump up for few with heat gun or hair dryer,drain ,refill. quart of atf alot cheaper than special fluid.

on other hand meyers pumps are more sensitive and they will jel up,it is more expensive but never had a problem with blue fluid.fisher too


just my 2 cent


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

cincy snowdog;331443 said:


> .
> 
> on other hand meyers pumps are more sensitive and they will jel up,it is more expensive but never had a problem with blue fluid.fisher too
> just my 2 cent


More sensitive to what?
How does being more sensitive make the Atf gel up.?
Atf will only gel if it gets to cold.

.Atf has wax (paraffin) it in that will separate from the fluid at low temps and clog your filter with stuff that will look like gel or goo.

Any good hydraulic fluid is better than ATF.


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## BobC (Nov 5, 2004)

For the few extra dollars I would rather use plow makers fluids which flow better at freezing temps. For 5 or 6 bucks not going to try to heat up pumps my time is worth more, besides the possible extra amp draw of a pump pushing thickened fluids. Also way risk a malfunction when you count on the plow.


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## Lawnscape89 (Nov 28, 2005)

IMO, I'd rather spend $30 for a fluid change and know that in the middle of a cold, snowy night I don't have to worry about finding an outlet for a heat gun to warm up my pump. In the long run, you'd be much better with the fluid change, replacing the ATF with the dealer recommended fluid. Again, JMO.


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## greatlawns (Oct 24, 2006)

As a follow-up, I downloaded and read the Western plow owner's manual and it actually SAYS to use ATF fluid for their plow. Like you all, I find it hard to believe that ATF fluid is recommended over a fluid designed to work in cold temps. 

Does anyone here use anything else other than the ATF recommended by Western in their plows???


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## cincy snowdog (Dec 19, 2005)

SnoFarmer;331593 said:


> More sensitive to what?
> How does being more sensitive make the Atf gel up.?
> Atf will only gel if it gets to cold.
> 
> ...


snow what i was saying atf in my meyers didnt work well,it was like the meyers ports and such are smaller,as far as western the manual is stating to use atf,i was stating we have used it for years , but we are in a dif, temp climate than you.I can use atf here,you may not be able too,$1.59 quart is reasonable to me here versus 15 qt for blue glacier.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

greatlawns;331814 said:


> As a follow-up, I downloaded and read the Western plow owner's manual and it actually SAYS to use ATF fluid for their plow. Like you all, I find it hard to believe that ATF fluid is recommended over a fluid designed to work in cold temps.
> 
> Does anyone here use anything else other than the ATF recommended by Western in their plows???


Western has a "high Performance hydraulic fluid" available. They (western) recommend the use of the higher performance fluids in the older temps. Atf should not be used below -10F a temperature easy to achieve when you factor in wind chill at 45 mph traveling from job to job. Atf will cause higher amp draws due to forcing thicker fluid though small ports. ATF works fine in the higher temps. Mixing incompatible fluids can cause jelling as will extremely low temperatures.

Western recommendations are contained on this web page 
http://www.westernplows.com/pdf/63097.05_060105.pdf

Fluid options and specs. are on this page
http://www.westernplows.com/pdf/21936_120198.pdf


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

basher;332724 said:


> Atf should not be used below -10F a temperature easy to achieve when you factor in wind chill at 45 mph traveling from job to job.


Huh?....Wind chill does what?

If it is 10 degrees out and your drive 10,000 MPH down the road for 100 miles........guess what? The coldest the ATF is going to be ................well...............is 10 degrees.

Wind is not going to reduce the temperature of anything below the ambient temp. If this were true our refrigerators would be nothing more then fans.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

basher,
. What is windchill temperature? 

A. The windchill temperature is how cold people and animals feel when outside. Windchill is based on the rate of heat loss from exposed skin caused by wind and cold. As the wind increases, it draws heat from the body, driving down skin temperature and eventually the internal body temperature. Therefore, the wind makes it FEEL much colder. If the temperature is 0 degrees Fahrenheit and the wind is blowing at 15 mph, the windchill is -19 degrees Fahrenheit. At this windchill temperature, exposed skin can freeze in 30 minutes. 

2. Can windchill impact my plow or exposed water pipe? 

A. The only effect windchill has on inanimate objects, such as plows and water pipes, is to shorten the amount of time for the object to cool. The inanimate object will not cool below the actual air temperature. For example, if the temperature outside is -5 degrees Fahrenheit and the windchill temperature is -31 degrees Fahrenheit, then your plow will not drop lower than -5 degrees Fahrenheit.


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## east end turf (Jan 24, 2006)

*wow*

Atf Works Fine On Eastern Long Island. With The Wind Chill Hahah. But I Do Use Blue Fluid In My Myers Ive Ben Told The Myers O Rings Wont Take The Atf They Would Swell Up But I Don't Know For Shore?


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## MBB (Oct 29, 2005)

Just got thru checking this out between a blizzard, snoway, western plows, did not want to stock 3 fluids, ( western does say atf, spx pumps say Dextron 3)( spx supplies pump and valve body to Blizzard) Snow way says no zinc. So went to fluid supply dealer found out as muich as we could on each fluid spec, Net result was Low temp fluid = mineral oil base 56aw. Their specific product is called Flow MIte 530ZF( ZF= zink free) $ 54.85/5gal ( includes local sales tax). ($2.74 qt) meets or exceeds everything we found spec wise. I like this price much better than (around here) $6-8/qt for name brand low temp.
Hyd fluids, 32aw, 42aw, 56aw, 68aw, first 2 numbers refer to neg temp fluid will hold its specs to with out gelling ect. Mineral based fluids are what typicaly refered to as aircraft grade. hope this helps.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

so does that mean I can buy 32 hydraulic oil (fluid, same thing right?) for my Blizzard?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

ThisIsMe;332817 said:


> Huh?....Wind chill does what?
> 
> If it is 10 degrees out and your drive 10,000 MPH down the road for 100 miles........guess what? The coldest the ATF is going to be ................well...............is 10 degrees.
> 
> Wind is not going to reduce the temperature of anything below the ambient temp. If this were true our refrigerators would be nothing more then fans.


My bad, poorly stated, I agree, never colder then ambient temp. It will reach ambient temp much faster.
Units never seem to freeze while using them, it's always "it worked great, then i stopped for coffee and when i came out it raised real slow then wouldn't drop" It seems like any internal warmth the units build is removed by "wind chill" when traveling.


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Detroitdan;336035 said:


> so does that mean I can buy 32 hydraulic oil (fluid, same thing right?) for my Blizzard?


No Dan.

You must and only must use Blizzard oil for your plow. Blizzard oil is made specifically for the off the shelf hoses, off the shelf pumps, off the shelf cylinders. Even though thousands of these devices are run throughout the world on other devices with normal non Blizzard hydraulic fluid, for some god unknown reason you have to use Blizzard oil in your plow.

Using any other fluid will void your warranty, cause you plow to stop working, cause global warming, deplete half the rain forests, cause more hunger for another 1,000,000 people, kill off the dolphins, result in poor snow removal, increase costumer complaints, not allow Blizzard's VP of Marketing to obtain his new pool next spring.

Do not pay attention to any backhoe or loader running normal hydraulic fluid at -10F. You still need the special super secret additives that are specifically designed for Blizzard plows. Not only designed for the plows but the profits at Blizzard.

Sorry feeling silly tonight.  
Chris

PS please swap out Blizzard with the manufacture of your choice.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

that's what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure. too bad about the dolphins, though. although some around here feel that they deserve it after the whipping they gave the Patriots.

How come people get upset about dolphins getting caught in tuna nets, but nobody cares about tuna getting caught in tuna nets?


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

Detroitdan;336418 said:


> How come people get upset about dolphins getting caught in tuna nets, but nobody cares about tuna getting caught in tuna nets?


Because they never had a lovable TV show or song about tuna. 

Well that and plus tuna are tasty.

Chris


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

Because the tuna nets are for tuna only. What about the tuna that get cought in dolphin nets?? I bet that would be bad because those nets are for dolphin only. You can't go mixing the species and nets you know.


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## starc (Nov 16, 2006)

Detroitdan;336035 said:


> so does that mean I can buy 32 hydraulic oil (fluid, same thing right?) for my Blizzard?


That's what I've always used for years...never had a problem.


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## LD4850 (Jun 5, 2005)

greatlawns;331814 said:


> As a follow-up, I downloaded and read the Western plow owner's manual and it actually SAYS to use ATF fluid for their plow. Like you all, I find it hard to believe that ATF fluid is recommended over a fluid designed to work in cold temps.
> 
> Does anyone here use anything else other than the ATF recommended by Western in their plows???


If ATF in my plow will gell up, why don't the auto manufacturers recommend a " fluid designed to work in cold temps" for the transmissions?
Has anyone ever had their trans gell up? 
Shouldn't I be using $10/qt trans fluid too? Won't that make my trans last longer??? 
After 20 yrs I have had my (used when I got it) western plow & used nothing but generic (the cheapest I could find) ATF, I have never had a problem with it gelling up here in Michigan. I have never changed it, just added to it decause of leaks & broken hoses. We have had temps around -10 degrees on more then one occasion too.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

because transmissions are under the truck protected from the cold somewhat, they produce heat and are hooked to heat producing engine. Plow pumps are externally mounted, most arent even under the hood anymore, they're out in the weather getting snow dumped on them. Just a thought.


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## LD4850 (Jun 5, 2005)

Detroitdan;337672 said:


> because transmissions are under the truck protected from the cold somewhat, they produce heat and are hooked to heat producing engine. Plow pumps are externally mounted, most arent even under the hood anymore, they're out in the weather getting snow dumped on them. Just a thought.


Transmission isn't protected from the tempature if the truck sits outside for weeks between being started. Mine sometimes goes months between being started. No heat then. Pump & transmission will both be at 0 degrees on a 0 degree morning.


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## doh (Sep 23, 2003)

I have always used ATF in mine since 1990 when I started plowing.

I have plowed in -40 conditions and yes the pump does slow down but it still works.

The only problem I have ever had is the plow that went through the ice, I did not get all the water out of it and it would on occasion freeze in the valve body. I wound up adding a cap full of methalhydrate and the problem disappeared.


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

Just as a side note my Western came new with a sticker stating to fill it with ATF. That was in 2000, the local plow shop vehemently disagrees with this. I do use Mobil-1 ATF which has a pour point of -52*F, normal ATF has a pour point of around -20*F.


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## LD4850 (Jun 5, 2005)

Plows worked just fine years ago on ATF before the oil companies found out they could charge more for the fluid if they called it *Snow Plow Fluid* 
We had many more years without *SnowPlowFluid* then we have had with it.


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

LD4850;339431 said:


> Plows worked just fine years ago on ATF before the oil companies found out they could charge more for the fluid if they called it *Snow Plow Fluid*
> We had many more years without *SnowPlowFluid* then we have had with it.


Good point.

At this rate, Cat and John Deere will void your warranty soon if you use their loader for snow plow removal without changing to their "Snow loader fluid" each fall and changing it back to "Loader Fluid" in the spring.

I got Deere backhoe hydro filters this fall from the dealer. Of course the counter clerk asked how many pails of hydro I needed. I asked how much each? $58 each was the cheapest "John Deere Oil" but they recommended the "super duper special" Deere fluid at $73 a pail. It made for a good laugh.


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## LD4850 (Jun 5, 2005)

Ggg6;338143 said:


> Just as a side note my Western came new with a sticker stating to fill it with ATF. That was in 2000, the local plow shop vehemently disagrees with this. I do use Mobil-1 ATF which has a pour point of -52*F, normal ATF has a pour point of around -20*F.


When was the last time it got even close to -52 degrees F in IL.?
And did your transmission work that day?


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

It has never been that cold as far as I know and even at sustained low temps of -15 my trans has worked great.


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## doh (Sep 23, 2003)

Honestly guys, I got fed up with my Western plow that went through the ice in 2000, I did not completely drain the oil so every now and then the valve block would freeze. I was fed up one day and went to the local carwash, thawed it out and put a capful of methalhydrate into the pump housing.

NO I repeat No ill effects and the pump ,worked with milky oil at -35 degress, sorry "specially formulated" has no meaning anymore.


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## ThisIsMe (Oct 31, 2006)

doh;340429 said:


> sorry "specially formulated" has no meaning anymore.


Sure it does. It is the new 21st century term for "snake oil"


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## doh (Sep 23, 2003)

I am just stating what I know, 6 days under 35' of water, not totally drained, milky ATF, methalhydrate works, (no seals damaged during this test)


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

Do you have pictures of the recovery? I have driven across the Great Slave Lake to get to Yellowknife.


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