# Hey Neige what's the deal with this guy?



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/l...oval_noshow_091210/20091210/?hub=MontrealHome


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

One step below lowballer- Noballer.


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

FordFisherman;908130 said:


> One step below lowballer- Noballer.


YEA, u got that right!!! $200 per season on a driveway tells the whole story!

Theres no possible way anyone can make money at that, they would break even on 6 events.


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## STRONGARM (Jan 10, 2005)

WOW, Did you read the one comment about the customer that went back to his old contractor that told him this would happen. If he came back I would add a 10% stupid tax to his contract. I've never heard of it that bad around here.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

who the hell would want to be out in conditions like that working? lol


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## poncho62 (Jan 23, 2004)

Its probably that guy from Ottawa that had all his blowers repo'd last year....or was it the year before?

Same MO, anyways.........


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## woofbutt (Oct 13, 2009)

Ouch $200/season. Glad im not competing with them! LOL


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

the worst part about this is alll those peopel left realiable contractors to go with a guy $40 cheaper....what does that say about loyalty....


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## jayman3 (Jan 18, 2006)

There is a guy around here In Gatineau Quebec they start at 199 bucks for the season,they have got 16 new holland tractors this season,not even worth me doing my drive at that price.Makes a good Christmas present for the wife as my drive is always last:laughing:


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## Kunker (Nov 26, 2008)

Why is $200 for the season lowballing? It isn't that far off what Neige charges...



Neige;654600 said:


> I do both resi and commercial. I make more money with my resi. I only have 2700 drives and we do it with 18 tractors. Thats 150 each, some of my new employees do less and others do more. Single drive is 270 for the season ( around 450 sq ft) and a double is 300 ( around 600 sq ft.). No walkways or salting. Average winter is 200 cm or 80 inches, usually in 18 events, so we hit our clients around 60 times a season.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Kunker;908399 said:


> Why is $200 for the season lowballing? It isn't that far off what Neige charges...


If each tractor does 150 drives and he gets an additional $70/drive that's an additional $10, 300/season, enough to pay for fuel and labour so yes I'd consider $200 lowballing.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

WOW, i hope this company gets its [email protected] nailed to the wall


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## naturalgreen (Dec 6, 2008)

He was smart to change his name from lxsmxojfirh or whatever it was, but avalanche must have gotten snowed in. amazed at how many people commented. Im in st. louis an we get no snow and 200 is low unless it is a straight 1 shot drive no side walk. after 6/7 events im over. However I dont do seasonal but I know the few drives I have bring me more than that a year and they are pathetically small. I am underbid on most drives prob but dont like them. There is no loyalty but the is karma and these people r feeling it. Joe blow did a great job for 5 years but this foreigner is a little cheaper and said he will be available whenever I need him as I signed the check.


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## Runner (Jul 21, 2000)

poncho62;908161 said:


> Its probably that guy from Ottawa that had all his blowers repo'd last year....or was it the year before?
> 
> Same MO, anyways.........


Sure has alot of similarities to it, doesn't it?


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## D DeSantis (Mar 3, 2008)

Those guys charge way cheap I don't know how they do it......really sad actually because the prices in montreal are a little behind........but also garages have been fire bombed in that area in the past lol. Can't compete with the prices??? blow the competitors equipment up ahhhh montreal i love it here!!!
-Dan


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

Is that the same guy that someone posted before? Last year or the year before? He came up with the same excuse of the tractors being broken.


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## ahoron (Jan 22, 2007)

Buyer beware Just tell them to wait the snow will melt. You hear it every year same story


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

JD Dave;908426 said:


> If each tractor does 150 drives and he gets an additional $70/drive that's an additional $10, 300/season, enough to pay for fuel and labour so yes I'd consider $200 lowballing.


Huh?

I think Paul is around $300.. So..

$300 x Qty 150 = $45'000. Driver makes what $7000 to $10'000?

$45000 - $10'000 = $35'000 - $15'000 ( Tractor Rental) - $5000.00 (Fuel) = $10'000

On 10 Tractors that's not bad $100'000.00

But that's not including the snow blowers that go for $7000 a pop or the driveways signs at $5 a piece including the fiberglass pole.


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

JD Dave;908426 said:


> If each tractor does 150 drives and he gets an additional $70/drive that's an additional $10, 300/season, enough to pay for fuel and labour so yes I'd consider $200 lowballing.


I agree. This area of Ontario is cheap. The average going rate for a seasonal residential driveway is around $400.00 and for snowfall and drifting (that we get a tremendous amount of) it is extremely lowballed and then to not have service after 28cm (close enough to a foot in my world):realmad: It is complete B.S..

Apparently Neiges operation is extremely efficient and profitable and still he deals with the lowballers by not dealing with them. I have yet to see anyone else here that can honestly say they can clear 60 driveways per hour during a storm without breaking a sweat. Too bad for the customers trying to save $14.00 a month.:laughing:


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## Grn Mtn (Sep 21, 2004)

i like the (presumeably) old farts comment of "lazy generation" because in his day people shoveled and mowed their own stuff... yeah, and in your day people only worked 9-5 and had the weekend off, now people are working multiple jobs, blah blah blah.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Bajak;909464 said:


> I agree. This area of Ontario is cheap. The average going rate for a seasonal residential driveway is around $400.00 and for snowfall and drifting (that we get a tremendous amount of) it is extremely lowballed and then to not have service after 28cm (close enough to a foot in my world):realmad: It is complete B.S..
> 
> Apparently Neiges operation is extremely efficient and profitable and still he deals with the lowballers by not dealing with them. I have yet to see anyone else here that can honestly say they can clear 60 driveways per hour during a storm without breaking a sweat. Too bad for the customers trying to save $14.00 a month.:laughing:


What are you using a Tractor I presume? Where you are the properties are more rural? in the GTA and you have single to double car drives with a tractor you could knock out a bunch 100+ if the route is tight tractor and blower. Too many people want there walkways done here and don't want to pay for that service. :realmad:

I charge between $350 to $450 season. I sent out 50'000 nice hard stock flyers all I got out of it was 15 more driveways. :realmad: but after 2 years of that I now know my target market and will reduce the amount of flyers for next year and then find someone other then myself capable of driving it.

I would like to run a Tractor someday with a blower to do drives but I'd have to be at the $300 if not a bit less to get volume work otherwise im no different then the others.


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## Timm (Sep 24, 2008)

I had a property managment firm contact me , he wanted me to sign a contract to do 50 repo homes, heres what they wanted , drive ways plowed , walks snow blowed, and steps and porches shoveled , they would not tell me the size of drives or any info expect these were all rural locations , they told me they would only pay 43.50 per property for this, when i told them this price was to low and without any info I would not service these they got mad when I turned them down , I mean with no info this would be going into this blind has anyone run into this problem?


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## EcoGreen Serv (Oct 26, 2009)

Grassman09;909500 said:


> What are you using a Tractor I presume? Where you are the properties are more rural? in the GTA and you have single to double car drives with a tractor you could knock out a bunch 100+ if the route is tight tractor and blower. Too many people want there walkways done here and don't want to pay for that service.
> 
> I charge between $350 to $450 season. I sent out 50'000 nice hard stock flyers all I got out of it was 15 more driveways. :realmad: but after 2 years of that I now know my target market and will reduce the amount of flyers for next year and then find someone other then myself capable of driving it.
> 
> I would like to run a Tractor someday with a blower to do drives but I'd have to be at the $300 if not a bit less to get volume work otherwise im no different then the others.


I never get tired of these











For tight subdivision routes I don't think anything can come close to a tractor with a inverted blower. I think a Skid steer with a blower might come close but then you don't have the road speed.

I'm between $450 and $800 a season but I don't do subdivisions, All of my residentials are long rural drives. On Call pushes average $50-$60 and my route is too long for a tractor

All I have to do now is figure out how to run a Normand inverted blower on the back of a pickup. Seeing the Ebling mounting system on JD's Pickup got the wheels turning. 








PLUS









Hmmmmmmm


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## Kunker (Nov 26, 2008)

JD Dave;908426 said:


> If each tractor does 150 drives and he gets an additional $70/drive that's an additional $10, 300/season, enough to pay for fuel and labour so yes I'd consider $200 lowballing.


Yeah, I forgot how quick it adds up with that many drives. Still boggles my mind how the hell he does it.


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

EcoGreen Serv;909554 said:


> Seeing the Ebling mounting system on JD's Pickup got the wheels turning.


Me Too. Though I will still prefer running tractors or loaders around here. I saw three P/Us this morning with blades at a standstill resorting to plan 'B'. Shovels in hand and a skidsteer on the way.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

EcoGreen Serv;909554 said:


> I never get tired of these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is one of those for sale the guy want $3000 for it. Paul told me its not powerful enough. Jeree has a 5-hp Perkins running on Central Hydro and that thing boogies.


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## stumpslawncare (Dec 19, 2006)

I think it is kinda funny how alot of the customers went with this company because of the price and then went running back to their old company when the new guy did not show up! You get what you pay for!!!! payup


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## snowman4 (Nov 25, 2007)

Grassman09;909590 said:


> There is one of those for sale the guy want $3000 for it. Paul told me its not powerful enough. Jeree has a 5-hp Perkins running on Central Hydro and that thing boogies.


That's quite the blower. You could shove your hand in there, leave it in the for a minute or so, take it out, and still have a hand not even scraped by the auger.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

snowman4;909779 said:


> That's quite the blower. You could shove your hand in there, leave it in the for a minute or so, take it out, and still have a hand not even scraped by the auger.


Sure you 1st thou. :laughing:


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Route density is the key with tractor blower runs. Five streets with 160 resi's. It'll be years before I achieve that. As it is my good guys hit 15/hr, priceless during big dumps when running out of room for the snow is an issue. Tractors drive thru anything.
You'd think a truck mounted blower would be ideal,road speed and snowblower.
The famous tony's snowblowing had a bunch of truck mounted blowers as well as tractor blowers.
Like the video they were underpowered.
He mounted them on 1 ton chev duallys so the front bumper helped move snow.
Saw some units at auction and was not impressed at condition or construction pphhfftt


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## Outd00r Maint.. (Nov 17, 2009)

jayman3;908378 said:


> There is a guy around here In Gatineau Quebec they start at 199 bucks for the season,they have got 16 new holland tractors this season,not even worth me doing my drive at that price.Makes a good Christmas present for the wife as my drive is always last:laughing:


u mean 299$ not 199$

its it tehni snow u talking about? they work only in aylmer mainly


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

stumpslawncare;909675 said:


> I think it is kinda funny how alot of the customers went with this company because of the price and then went running back to their old company when the new guy did not show up! You get what you pay for!!!! payup


Frankly, I don't feel all that sorry for these people. I mean, yeah it sucks you got taken, but come on, when it seems too good to be true, THATS BECAUSE IT USUALLY IS! Maybe a little loyalty is in order to the guy that served you for years, even if he is $50-100 more expensive over the winter. Does that really make a difference if you know he's reliable?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Update.


A blizzard of controversy is swirling around a new West Island snow-removal company that left hundreds of clients digging themselves out after the first major storm of the season last week.

While many of those customers are cancelling their contracts with Déneigement Avalanche and demanding refunds, the Pointe Claire start-up is saying it's the victim of price-fixing competitors.

"Five hundred of our 3,000 customers were affected when someone broke into our garage and sabotaged six of our brand-new trucks/snowblowers (on the eve of the Dec. 9 snowfall)," said Frank, the Avalanche night manager who refused to give his family name when interviewed by The Gazette yesterday.

He said the competition not only damaged Avalanche equipment, but also stole a pick-up truck full of markers and steel rods used to indicate customers' homes.

"We were 30 hours late (getting started on those clients), but we've worked late and all weekend to get to them," Frank said.

Gilles Masson said yesterday he was one of about 20 angry customers who went to the Avalanche office last Friday to find out why their driveways hadn't been cleared after the first major snowfall of the season.

Not only were they met with a chained gate, but the same thing happened when he and about 15 of them returned Monday morning.

Masson went back again in the afternoon and met with a company manager who told him about the vandalism.

"When I said I wanted to cancel my contract, he told me I will get my $100 cheque returned in a week," Masson said.

Frank noted that, under an introductory special, people were offered a season of snow clearing for between $190 and $200 as long as they provided two cheques dated Oct. 1 and Dec. 29.

While people who never got their driveways cleared by Avalanche will get full refunds if they cancel their contracts, Frank said, those who had all or part of the work done later forfeit their initial $100 if they break their contracts.

"Less than 200 have cancelled and other people are now signing up with us at $293.40," he added.

Masson said his wife and daughter had to clear the family driveway last week and that Avalanche never came by, yet he is still out $100.

"If I don't get my (second) cheque back before Christmas, I'm going to put a stop on it."

Frank is seeing a return to the snow-removal turf war that hit the West Island the winter of 2002-2003, when cutthroat tactics such as vandalism and arson were used to freeze out competition.

Although Frank calls Avalanche (a numbered company registered as 7222254 Canada Inc.) a family business, he couldn't explain why Jacques Tozzi is listed as its president, administrator and majority stockholder.

Tozzi is also named as president, administrator, secretary and main shareholder of competitor Paysagiste et Déneigement SylJack Inc. - located adjacent to Avalanche.

"We're not going out of business," he said. " We're going for 8,000 customers next year."


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

they cant service 3000 but want to have 8000 next year


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

where is the info on a investigation???, would be more believeable if the police/RCMP where involved


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

EcoGreen Serv;909554 said:


> I never get tired of these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you put a 26 or 31 hp briggs on there running at 3600 rpm, by the time you reduce it down to 540 for the blower would that not be a multiply effect for the motor more less doubling its hp? Or do i think backwards? Im looking at it like a transmisson, motors at 3600 rpm in 4th gear 1:1 its a dog and has no power, but when you put it in first gear (your reducer to 540rpm) now its got tons of power cause its 3:1 or something like that...


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## jayman3 (Jan 18, 2006)

Outd00r Maint..;909853 said:


> u mean 299$ not 199$
> 
> its it tehni snow u talking about? they work only in aylmer mainly


No I mean 199,Ya they work in Aylmer/Hull area,there shop isn't far from my house this year will get pics of them the next time I drive by.


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## EcoGreen Serv (Oct 26, 2009)

Triple L;914025 said:


> If you put a 26 or 31 hp briggs on there running at 3600 rpm, by the time you reduce it down to 540 for the blower would that not be a multiply effect for the motor more less doubling its hp? Or do i think backwards? Im looking at it like a transmisson, motors at 3600 rpm in 4th gear 1:1 its a dog and has no power, but when you put it in first gear (your reducer to 540rpm) now its got tons of power cause its 3:1 or something like that...


No, you're right, With a 6.66 gear reduction to 540RPM you are multiplying the torque. It's not a straight multiplier though.

Reflected Load Inertia by Speed Reduction

Design Variables
Load inertia, ( ) lb-ft2 = 28 
Reduction ratio () = 6.66

Results
Load Inertia (WK2) lb - ft2 = 117.7177


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Wow is that what it works out to? you go from 28 'lbs to 117'lbs... Thats quite a bit, I really dont think a 31 hp would have much trouble....


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## heather lawn spray (Mar 11, 2003)

Triple L;914521 said:


> Wow is that what it works out to? you go from 28 'lbs to 117'lbs... Thats quite a bit, I really dont think a 31 hp would have much trouble....


Hey Chad

We put a 26 hp liquid-cooled behind a 47" thrower on Granpa John Deere F725. It throws about 20 feet. I think you need more than 31 hp to drive a truck blower, say about 5 hp per linear foot of blower. For us it's about 5 hp for the tractor and 5 per foot for the little thrower. The Kubota with a 18 hp diesel is driving a 42" blower and pushing snow about 25 feet.


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

grandview;913956 said:


> Update.
> 
> "Five hundred of our 3,000 customers were affected ....
> About 16.99%
> ...


No mention of insurance for loss of business due to the "vandalism" on the presumably leased equipment or what the "slandering" of the business may amount to now that it is reported on by the media.

Very interesting story when viewed from all sides. I hope Frank has de-icers as extra in his seasonal contracts.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*truck mounted snow blower*



EcoGreen Serv;909554 said:


> I never get tired of these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


========================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

Here is a truck mounted snow blower (locomotive trucks) that will relieve you of 22,000 tons per hour and travels up to 40 KPH..
Hey you said truck mounted snow blowers! 
:laughing:

Aout the snow blowers with ribbons/augers either solid or perforated"

The numerous heavy two stage blowers that are PTO powered and or truck mounted have the large drums with the very 
small ribbons welded to the oversize drums to feed the fan a steady low rate to balance the load on the 
fan (the fan may have up to six paddles.)

Larger PTO blowers like the Bielhack and Schmidt and others have a single fan with snow breaker arms which tears
the snow pack for easy disposal.

The Beilhack/Schmidt smaller blowers have a single fan only(with a left side gathering plow solid wing which feeds
addtional snow and eliminate the cross auger entirely delivering the power take off energy to the fan.

This model blower requires a lot of machine weight and traction to force the snow along the plow to the fan housing. 
but the direct drive is what gives these blowers both fan speed and torque.

These blowers also have ice breaking arms to break up ice packed shoulders to dispose of the 
packed ice and snow by blowing it away.

Any two stage blower with engines mounted on them

(except the loader mounted blowers like Zaugg or Cotant, The Yamaha tracked korean import,
and the Honda(japanese homeland only) tracked snow blowers and several other brands)
have limitations that are both slow speed or high volume due to snow pack and warm temperatures.
Where in other brands the majority of the power is directed to the fan or multiple fans at high RPM and high torque.

leon


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## Outd00r Maint.. (Nov 17, 2009)

jayman3;914080 said:


> No I mean 199,Ya they work in Aylmer/Hull area,there shop isn't far from my house this year will get pics of them the next time I drive by.


now that i think of it ..yea you might be right ....

techni-snow bidded on a entrance in hull 550$ for a double lane driveway...we bidded 250$ for it...was close to are other contracts...

i think they charge more in the hull area...

so you where saying there shop is in aylmer or ottawa?


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## jayman3 (Jan 18, 2006)

Outd00r Maint..;915486 said:


> now that i think of it ..yea you might be right ....
> 
> techni-snow bidded on a entrance in hull 550$ for a double lane driveway...we bidded 250$ for it...was close to are other contracts...
> 
> ...


It is in Aylmer.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

has Neige actually seen this yet?


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## RAZOR (Dec 19, 2001)

I just saw the preview for the Montreal CTV new at 6 tonight. They are going to doing the Avalanche follow-up story.


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