# Top quality diesel additive



## Miguel Sanchez (Oct 20, 2015)

New to diesels. Just bought a 2002 Ford F350 with the 7.3 liter Diesel.
Weather here in Northeast Pa does not get below zero often and if it did i would be using the block heater. But i understand i shoulld be using and addictive to my tank. Looking for to quality additive for winter use. I recognize like most thing their will be differences of opinions so i would like to get a product that is universally accepted as top notch.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Howes diesel treatment. Go to Walmart. And there's heated discussion on this here.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

I agree . Howes for sure .


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

I've always used Power Service. White bottle for maintenance, Red bottle for trouble. I will say the Red bottle DID save my arse a few years ago when I got lazy and parked with a 1/4 tank and it got super super cold.


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## 906Yooper (Sep 7, 2016)

I like Howes. I never used to use anything until one of mine gelled at -32F.
I always carry a spare filter anyway.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

We use white bottles of Power Service and carry a spare filter here.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Randall Ave said:


> Howes diesel treatment. Go to Walmart. And there's heated discussion on this here.





SHAWZER said:


> I agree . Howes for sure .





906Yooper said:


> I like Howes. I never used to use anything until one of mine gelled at -32F.
> I always carry a spare filter anyway.


Howes here too.
always carry a spar fuel filter.
and get your fuel from a station that has a lot of diesel traffic.

i get mine at Menard's or wallmart when its on sale for $9 a jug.

Q why would the fuel level make a difference?
it shouldn't....


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Q why would the fuel level make a difference?
it shouldn't....

More condensation with no fuel vers full tank.
Ice crystals firm easier due to colder tank......saw it first hand at the refinery In 14 on the diesel welders.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

and if you really want to avoid issues with your filter gelling up when it matters, put a good quality lift pump (Fass/ Air Dog/ Etc) on your rig and it will keep things going into far colder temps.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

how so?
when guys add filtration they seem all to think, hey i need to filter down to 2-3 micron.
this leads to waxing of the filter. in marginal conditions.
the number one way to not have a issues buy quality fuel in the first place,


does Fass have heaters in their filter heads?

The ram does, even on the filter at the tank.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

dieselss said:


> Q why would the fuel level make a difference?
> it shouldn't....
> 
> More condensation with no fuel vers full tank.
> Ice crystals firm easier due to colder tank......saw it first hand at the refinery In 14 on the diesel welders.


ah water condensation,, it sure must have been humid... i thought you were referring to wax fall out.

yes its always best to keep them full if ya can.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SnoFarmer said:


> how so?
> when guys add filtration they seem all to think, hey i need to filter down to 2-3 micron.
> this leads to waxing of the filter. in marginal conditions.
> the number one way to not have a issues buy quality fuel in the first place,
> ...


Negative, did not say anything about adding an additional filter system only a lift pump.

The concept is not in the filtration. The concept is the simple art of pushing the fuel to the CP3 pump instead of sucking it all the way from the tank.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I agree with the quality fuel from a truck stop 100% though, even though it seems like 1 time a year, one of the trucks gets a dud tank on the coldest day, and the filters are getting changed in a lot somewhere.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

ah my truck has a lift pump in the tank right from the factory that is more than sufficient to push fuel threw the filters to the CP3, even after market filtration.

cp#3s do a poor job of sucking....

only reason for a fass lift pump is for a replacement part or to be cool.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

fuel issues are strange at times.
burned 70gal a night, per sno~cat, 8 cat crew.
no additives.
not one issue.
in sub zero temps.
in a cloud of snow.
threw working snow guns, (high humidity)
some were parked inside a heated shop some were left outside.
we religiously, (fined if you didn't) fuel them at the end of every shift.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I've gone out on service calls for gelled fuel in low tanks, and the tanks are full of frost above the fuel line.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

low fuel won't cause gelling, ie the wax or bio to fall out of suspension.

it could lead to the frost , condensation, a freeze up that some still call gelling...

ps i guess you could have both happen in the right conditions and with poor quality fuel or the wrong fuel for the temps


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Miguel Sanchez said:


> New to diesels. Just bought a 2002 Ford F350 with the 7.3 liter Diesel.
> Weather here in Northeast Pa does not get below zero often and if it did i would be using the block heater. But i understand i shoulld be using and addictive to my tank. Looking for to quality additive for winter use. I recognize like most thing their will be differences of opinions so i would like to get a product that is universally accepted as top notch.


Another thing you should be considering is the fact this motor was not designed to run on ultra low sulfur fuel. Sulfur acts as a lubricant, without it parts wear faster. This is especially hard on 7.3 injectors, primarily the pintle/nozzle. Most anti-gel additives do have a lubricant in them. So make sure what ever brand you do choose it has a quality lubricant in it.


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## COAL REAPER (Dec 2, 2016)

my truck starts a bit easier with PS, but never tried anything else. every walmart has it.


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## reedo (Jan 2, 2014)

Schaefer Diesel Treat 2000 Winter Blend has worked better than the Power Service for us. We had encountered a couple problems when using power service but have not had any problems yet when using the Schaeffers.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Never had fuel gel, only had the lines freeze from water in them. It was my L8000 and we should have drained the tanks before winter set it. 

99% of our fuel comes from 1 supplier, they treat it before delivery. One of the biggest suppliers in the region.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750 said:


> Another thing you should be considering is the fact this motor was not designed to run on ultra low sulfur fuel. Sulfur acts as a lubricant, without it parts wear faster. This is especially hard on 7.3 injectors, primarily the pintle/nozzle. Most anti-gel additives do have a lubricant in them. So make sure what ever brand you do choose it has a quality lubricant in it.


that is a myth, sulfur was never a lube
I know, i know i have seen it all of guys and some companies say it is.
but it is a abrasive.

it is the way the sulfur is removed from the fuel that also ended up striping the fuel of its lubricity.
A lubricity additive is added back to the fuel.
then if you have any % of bio the lubricity is now higher that it was when we had access to 500ppm fuel.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

SnoFarmer said:


> that is a myth, sulfur was never a lube
> I know, i know i have seen it all of guys and some companies say it is.
> but it is a abrasive.
> 
> ...


Got any proof of that or should I just take your word? Every diesel mechanic I know has said the opposite. Also there is a noticeable difference in injector noise when I use my additive.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Diesel fuel producers recognize the issues associated with the lower lubricating characteristics of ULSD, so they are including lubricating additives in retail diesel fuel. Some suppliers are blending biodiesel, which has excellent lubricating characteristics, with petroleum diesel.

“To manage the change in the lubricating qualities of diesel fuel, the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) adopted the lubricating specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels,” Nowatzki says. “The ASTM D975 standards specify the minimum lubricating characteristics of No. 1 and No. 2 diesel fuel, but do not specifically address petroleum diesel blends with biodiesel. Also, No. 1 diesel, commonly available during winter in the northern parts of the U.S., generally has less lubricating ability than the higher viscosity No. 2 diesels.”

The ASTM D975 standards for lubricity set the maximum amount of wear on materials when tested with specific fuels or blends of fuels. The test apparatus is called a High Frequency Reciprocating Test Rig (HFRR). Both No. 1 and No. 2 diesel test results cannot exceed 460 microns of wear when tested in a HFRR. A lower wear score indicates better lubricity. Biodiesel has been tested at varying concentrations with No. 1 and No. 2 diesel fuels. The results indicate that a 1 percent blend of biodiesel with No. 2 diesels is sufficient to reduce the HFRR micron score below the required 460 micron standard. However, a 2 percent biodiesel blend is required in No. 1 diesel to get the HFRR micron score down to 460 microns.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750 said:


> Got any proof of that or should I just take your word? Every diesel mechanic I know has said the opposite. Also there is a noticeable difference in injector noise when I use my additive.


ya when I fund it , i thought i had it book marked
.your additive inst adding surfer.

the sulfur has to be bonded with another chemical/agent that then it offered a boundary layer. not to be confused as it is as a lube.
like in a EP grease.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

I didn't say it is adding sulfur, it is adding a lubricant. By your article some are doing the bare minimum to pass the HFRR test. Also it says be removing the sulfur it removed the lubricating properties of the fuel. Now it is not saying whether that is from the process or from the removal of the sulfur itself. But still I can tell just by sound the difference my additive makes so anything you post is not going to change that.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

"*A common diesel myth about lubricity sort of goes like this: High sulfur fuel was good for lubricity, low sulfur is not, so sulfur must be the magic ingredient that gives diesel its lubricity. WRONG. Here is what sulfur really is. Sulfur is not a lubricant. As a solid it's abrasive, as a liquid it's corrosive, and as a gas it's toxic. In crude oil it is bonded to the hydrocarbons and is not free to do its damage. Not until the combustion process is it free to do its dirty work. Lower sulfur levels is a good thing because during combustion it steals oxygen from the air that could be used to burn the fuel. Thus, all high sulfur fuels have more emissions than low sulfur fuels.

The oil industry uses a process called hydrotreating to remove the sulfur from the crude. The problem is this process also breaks up the larger hydrocarbon molecules that provide diesel fuel with its ability to lubricate. By 1995 the refiners had retuned and improved the hydrotreating process and the fuel pump problems stopped from poor fuel lubricity.

The seal failure problem that several fuel pump manufacturers had was due to a group of hydrocarbons called polynuclear aromatics. These are large joined aromatic ring type molecules that sort of resemble a random honeycomb. These aromatics have a swelling effect on certain types of rubber O-rings. The hydrotreating process broke up the large aromatics and reduced the fuels ability to lubricate and keep those O-rings swelled up. During the years 90-95 the fuel pump companies and the oil refiners were all blaming each other for the problem. Big oil said the fuel pump guys put the wrong O-rings in its pumps. The fuel pump guys all whined about poor fuel quality. Behind the backs of everybody the oil guys adjusted the hydrotreating process, and the fuel pump guys redesigned the seals in their fuel pumps. Both sides still blame each other today.

When I had the fuel injectors rebuilt in the wife's 85 MB 300D at a local diesel injection repair shop last March, I talked to the shop owner about fuel pump failures from low sulfur fuel. The owner told me he made lots of money in the early 90s replacing pump seals. The fix was to use seals made of Viton which is more immune to fuel quality. Most pump failures now are due microscopic grit and water damage from neglected fuel filters. Any older diesel that has not suffered a seal or O-ring failure by now probably will not, not from low fuel lubricity anyway. As far as the Bosch pumps used by MB and VW, the guy replaces dozens of injector nozzles a year but works on maybe one or two fuel injection pumps. That should tell you something about
what wears out first.

I use fuel additives but not specifically for lubricity and definitely not to protect seals and O-rings because it won't happen. I want the cetane booster, water dispersant, anti-jell, detergents, etc. The lubricity additives are just a given. In another year or so the ASTM will have the new lubricity specifications sorted out and it will become part of the diesel fuel standards. But I repeat myself, it will be for scuffing limits, not seal or O-ring compatibility. My advice, don't worry about it because it won't happen.

If anyone here ever EVER hears a sales pitch saying sulfur is a lubricant - walk away - do not touch your wallet/paypal/credit card/telephone...

there are plenty of other issues with USLD and other stuff.. lack of sulfur ain't it...

Pop Quiz:
What is the #1 lubricity additive used in Diesel fuel? (talking the chemical)

its a Fatty Acid Methyl Ester. or FAME....

anyone know what that is? I hope so...

Its called BioDiesel. And the checmical companies like Power Service and Howes and Amsoil and all the like that make diesel fuel conditioners use a lower grade poorer quality FAME than you can get from Biodiesel. (source: personal conversations with AtomicAlex who happens to be a Tribiologist).*


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

*Lubricity*
Sulfur is not a lubricant in of itself, but it can combine with the nickel content in many metal alloys to form a low melting point eutectic alloy that can increase lubricity. The process used to reduce the sulfur also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear. The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel. To manage this change ASTM International (formerly the American Society for Testing and Materials) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975[22] for all diesel fuels and this standard went into effect January 1, 2005.[23] The D975 standard defines two ULSD standards, Grade No. 2-D S15 (regular ULSD) and Grade No. 1-D S15 (a higher volatility fuel with a lower gelling temperature than regular ULSD).

The refining process that removes the sulfur also reduces the aromatic content and density of the fuel, resulting in a minor decrease in the energy content, by about 1%. (Citation needed) This decrease in energy content may result in slightly reduced peak power and fuel economy.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

That sounds like it was written by some hippie tree hugging Al Gore loving pot smoking numbnut. Again not worried about seals and o rings (IMO are same thing) I am concerned about the hard components in my fuel system. To add to this debate I also noticed a drop in MPG when ULS fuel was introduced. So if sulfur robs oxygen why would mileage drop with ULS?


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

You keep posting the same thing, whether it is the sulfur or the process lubrication is lost in today's diesel.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SnoFarmer said:


> ah my truck has a lift pump in the tank right from the factory that is more than sufficient to push fuel threw the filters to the CP3, even after market filtration.
> 
> cp#3s do a poor job of sucking....
> 
> only reason for a fass lift pump is for a replacement part or to be cool.


Yeah, not the case with a Duramax. My Duramax vans have factory lift pumps , but none of the pickups do. CP3 is required to pull it all the way from the tank.

Early 2000's when the Duramax's first came to the scene, used to commonly have issues when temps dropped with the factory filter gelling (or icing what ever it was). Changed trucks to CAT fuel filters and added lift pumps and saw a huge reduction in issues.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

*Do Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuels cause fuel system leaks?*
When low sulfur diesel fuels were first introduced in some markets back in the 1990s, there was a rash of fuel injector O-ring failures causing fuel system leaks. The failures were limited to older vehicles and the problems have not recurred. The recent introduction of ULSD has not proven problematic.

http://www.hotshotsecret.com/failed-injector-myth/
While many drivers choose fuel additives to improve performance, the stiction that is causing an injector failure requires an oil additive. This is often counter-intuitive to diesel owners who consider the injector as part of the fuel system, not the oil system. Injectors require both systems to perform. A problem specific, high concentrate oil additive can remove the stiction and restore it to its original factory performance.

sulfur, is not a lube but an abrasive.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

SnoFarmer said:


> *Do Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuels cause fuel system leaks?*
> When low sulfur diesel fuels were first introduced in some markets back in the 1990s, there was a rash of fuel injector O-ring failures causing fuel system leaks. The failures were limited to older vehicles and the problems have not recurred. The recent introduction of ULSD has not proven problematic.
> 
> http://www.hotshotsecret.com/failed-injector-myth/
> ...


Again, whether it is the sulfur or the process of removing it lubrication was lost. Yes diesel injectors use oil to operate but the oil additive is not going to help with nozzle wear. Since you choose to keep on the subject how about sulfur ability to prevent biological growth in diesel. Lets see what you can find on that subject.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SnoFarmer said:


> "*A common diesel myth about lubricity sort of goes like this:
> 
> (source: personal conversations with AtomicAlex who happens to be a Tribiologist).*


Here: this is for all of you that have the same mental capacity that I do.










I just saved you the time I spent on Google... your welcome.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Since removing sulfur has a positive effect on emissions, why make such a big deal about the
resulting effect on the fuel system components? The process for removing sulfur to such a low
level of 15 ppm also strips out the compounds that provide diesel lubricity. Sulfur is not the actual lubricant but sulfur compounds are, and effectively removing sulfur from diesel results in a very poor lubricity rating for the fuel. Fuel pumps and injectors are lubricated by diesel and nothing else, so without sulfur providing the lubricity, these components are not lubricated. This is well known by the diesel manufacturers and the government, and standards for adding lubricants to the diesel have been established. It is a subject of discussion as to whether the levels of added lubricant are sufficient to provide for acceptable long-life expectations.

http://towprofessional.com/article/diesel-fuel-additives/


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

why because its hard for the (xyz) to understand that sulfur is not a lube and that if you remove the sulfur that you also remove the compounds responsible for the natural lubricity.
is far easier to say its the sulfur bemuse its ultra low sulfur fuel and to blame removing it .

so then they come to the conclusion that sulfur is a lube.:hammerhead:

when sulfur is used as an abrasive in honing oil also in some grinding wheels as an abrasive.

so go and do your own digging, dig past the surface fluff and get to the meat of it.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)




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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

And no matter what, removing sulfur has reduced fuel mileage.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)




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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

:terribletowel:
Don't like edumancTion

https://www.chevron.com/-/media/chevron/operations/documents/diesel-fuel-tech-review.pdf
The less-processed diesel fuels of the past were good boundary lubricants. This was not caused by the hydrocarbons that constitute the bulk of the fuel, but was attributed to trace amounts of oxygen- and nitrogen-containing compounds and certain classes of aromatic compounds. Evidence for the role of trace quantities is the fact that the lubricity of a fuel can be restored with the addition of as little as 10 parts per million (ppm) of an additive.

Lubricity enhancing compounds are naturally present in diesel fuel derived from petroleum crude by distillation. They can be altered or changed by hydrotreating, the process used to reduce sulfur and aromatic contents. However, lowering sulfur or aromatics, per se, does not necessarily lower fuel lubricity.

The use of fuels with poor lubricity can increase fuel pump and injector wear and, at the extreme, cause catastrophic failure. Such failures occurred in Sweden in 1991 ( they have 5-10ppm ulsd)when two classes of "city" diesel (with very low sulfur and aromatics contents) were mandated. Heavy hydrotreating was needed to make these fuels. The problem was solved by treating the fuel with a lubricity additive. As regions regulate lower sulfur levels, mostly accom- plished with more severe hydrotreating, the general trend is lower levels of lubricity in unfinished, unadditized fuels. The additized finished fuel in the market, however, should have adequate lubricity because of the fuel specifications in place.

Various laboratory test methods exist to determine fuel lubricity. One method widely used is the high frequency reciprocating rig (HFRR). Many regions of the world have fuel specifications based on this test method. (See Chapter 5 - Diesel Fuel and Biodiesel Fuel Specifications and Test Methods.)


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Mark Oomkes said:


> And no matter what, removing sulfur has reduced fuel mileage.


 Can you back et up?
I guess we are calling each other oot


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Ok find me an article that compares the lubrication qualities of the old earth killing diesel to the hippie safe diesel.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750 said:


> Ok find me an article that compares the lubrication qualities of the old earth killing diesel to the hippie safe diesel.


Go fish.

That is on you, I'm not your dog.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

You seem to be pushing new diesel is just as good as old diesel figured you had it saved somewhere.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750 said:


> You seem to be pushing new diesel is just as good as old diesel figured you had it saved somewhere.


Thoes are your words not mine.

I've burned a lot of fuel that had ppm over the 15ppmULSD or 500ppm fuel, it was closer to the 1000-700ppm
Range

Go fish.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Have you not been debating that the powers that be have added lubrication to ULSD to counteract the effects of removing the sulfur?


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> And no matter what, removing sulfur has reduced fuel mileage.


How can that be? According to the one article that was cut and pasted sulfur was stealing oxygen.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750 said:


> Have you not been debating that the powers that be have added lubrication to ULSD to counteract the effects of removing the sulfur?


I'm stating that, sulfur is not a lubericant.

That lowering the sulfer has a side effect.
that the process of removing the sulfer also, also lowers luberisity to a point that a additive is now nessary to bring the luberisity to levels just above that the industery is calling for.

You called sulfur a lube.
As mentioned, give it a try,
Duck, she'll turn to slap Ya.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

SnoFarmer said:


> You called sulfur a lube.


And that bothered you enough to go on this rant about diesel fuel? Fine Sulfur is not a lube, my point was that the new ULS fuel does not have the lubrication qualities of the older fuel. This is hard on the 7.3 fuel system therefor I suggested any additive the OP chooses should have some type of lubricity in it.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750 said:


> How can that be? According to the one article that was cut and pasted sulfur was stealing oxygen.


Typical ,
You key on that,
While discarding what Chevron has to say, which seems to support the article you cite.

Cut and paste doesn't change a single fact.
So what's your point aboot it?
That I didn't type it?
I didn't try to pass it off as I did type it.
I cited the source .
But in reality it's no diffrent than when you cut /paste a manual.... Is it.....

Go fish.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Go fish, Isn't that where you go find a Women. LOL


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750 said:


> And that bothered you enough to go on this rant about diesel fuel? Fine Sulfur is not a lube, my point was that the new ULS fuel does not have the lubrication qualities of the older fuel. This is hard on the 7.3 fuel system therefor I suggested any additive the OP chooses should have some type of lubricity in it.


That is mine and everyone else's progerative isn't .

And you picked up,on it and ranted along yourself and you trolled along too.
So?

Ps sulfur still isn't a lube lol
As I chuckel every time someone sayes it is.
It's you whom assumes I'm mad.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I like to use KY Jelly as lubricant, call me old-fashioned I guess, and yes it revs higher therefore consumes more fuel..

It also changes the torque curve, it's more of a spike now.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

1olddogtwo said:


> I like to use KY Jelly as lubricant, call me old-fashioned I guess, and yes it revs higher therefore consumes more fuel..
> 
> It also changes the torque curve, it's more of a spike now.


There are sometimes you just have to wait for it and it comes....


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

SnoFarmer said:


> That is mine and everyone else's progerative isn't .
> 
> And you picked up,on it and ranted along yourself and you trolled along too.
> So?
> ...


What make you assume that I assume you are mad? Also why are you assuming I got something wrong with cut and past? So now I am gonna have to assume that you assume I was trolling you for assuming that I assumed you just randomly pasted an assuming article on some assumed facts.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

1olddogtwo said:


> I like to use KY Jelly as lubricant, call me old-fashioned I guess, and yes it revs higher therefore consumes more fuel..
> 
> It also changes the torque curve, it's more of a spike now.


I here that KY has some long duration lube that will help you go longer on a tank.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750 said:


> What make you assume that I assume you are mad? Also why are you assuming I got something wrong with cut and past? So now I am gonna have to assume that you assume I was trolling you for assuming that I assumed you just randomly pasted an assuming article on some assumed facts.


Nice wiggle.
&
Go fish.

Ps
I use Howes lubericator even tho the fuel I get in mn has more than enough luberisity right out of the pump.
Howes may not even be the best.

I'd proababely run opti -lube it it was common around here, and or at a decent price point.

I don't run a additive becuse I think every tank needs to be polished. I look at useing it as a cheap insurance policy for that rare bad tank full. And posibely for the anti gell and mn ask a bad habbit of letting a littel extra bio sneeking in during the winter.
Also I fuel up after I use my diesels, a old habit


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

All kidding aside, I can count on one hand how many times I've used any product besides, clear, green or red in my truck.

Two years January, lots of people around here had serious gelling with there fuel....I don't shut the truck off if it's that bad. The return fuel is heated, it will keep the waxing to a min.

I'm more worried about the DEF at temp.....But that's another thread.

Need to stay on topic.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

1olddogtwo said:


> All kidding aside, I can count on one hand how many times I've used any product besides, clear, green or red in my truck.
> 
> Two years January, lots of people around here had serious gelling with there fuel....I don't shut the truck off if it's that bad. The return fuel is heated, it will keep the waxing to a min.
> 
> ...


I have a buddy that is a trucker.
When hw stops by and sees 2-4jugs on the shelf he says, I have to get your truck off of this drug.

He goes, I put on millions of miles and I have yet to use a additive.
But I do see guys buying it at the truck stops by the arm full.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Well looky here, sulfur being used as an additive to reduce wear.










*TPS®44* is an inactive trisulfide sulfur donor additive (44% sulfur) showing excellent extreme-pressure and anti-wear properties, almost non-corrosive to copper & compatibility with mineral, synthetic base oils and greases.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Insert pic

Header ,Article phrase pulled from;
Becuse of the other 61% that comes with it..........


What have we learned nothing.
Even tho you said it's not a lube.
Pick a side, I really don't care which side just
Pick one


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Hold on to your hat another slect, copy, paste....

.
Lubricity

The most immediate concern with ULSD- certainly the one that has received the most publicity-is lubricity. When diesel fuel is refined to make ULSD, it is reacted with hydrogen to remove the sulfur. This process also removes much of the fuel's lubricity. (Many people mistakenly believe that it is only the sulfur that supplies luberisity .

Source; http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazine/SeaOct11_UltraLowSulfurDiesel.pdf


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

This is just too much fun. I am guessing sulfur has more than just one use. Lubricant, not a lubricant, stink bomb, debate topic and the ability to make your well water smell like eggs.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Hey look these folks say that it's the stuff that is removed when the sulfur is that is responsibel for lubricity. . What? It's not the sulfur,
Get out...

Generally - Yes. Even though the process used to lower the sulfur in diesel can also remove some of the components that give the fuel its lubricity.

http://www.axi-international.com/faq/does-low-sulfur-diesel-fuel-have-enough-lubricity/


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

But you said sulfur is an abrasive.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

To achieve reduced sulfur and aromatic levels, unconventional refining/severe hydroprocessing schemes are typically required at the refinery. These processes not only decrease the sulfur content but also decrease the level of naturally-occurring lubricity agents (certain polyaromatic and polar compounds) in diesel fuel. Consequently, the diesel fuel so produced may have inherently low lubricity quality that, if not corrected with lubricity additives, can cause fuel distribution system failures.

http://www.petrolplaza.com/technology/articles/MiZlbiYxMDQ1NCYxNiYxJjEmJg==

Fer a dead horse , she sure just needed some lube...


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

OMG you guys, thank you! This was one of the most epic rants I have ever seen. I had tears rolling down my face I was laughing so hard. My wife was worried as I never laugh this hard.

Philbilly, the beating a dead horse emoticon was priceless Thumbs Up


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750 said:


> But you said sulfur is an abrasive.


yes , it is.

And as we know the other 61% of that additive that sayes it's sulfur is polyaromatic and polar compounds.
That hold the luberisity that bond to free sulfur, this doesn't make them sulfur.

But you can go prove me wrong.

He said swimming by the lure.....


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I'm just surprised you don't add bottel of atf to every tank.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

So they are not using sulfur as a lubricant? Neither are these people treating grinding stones with sulfur to provide lubricity for a finer finish.

*Sulfur or wax* treatment is commonly used to fill the porosity of stones. This provides lubricity to the contact area and reinforces the abrasive particles. Treated products tend to act harder, provide longer life, produce finer finishes and are less apt to "load". Sulfur tends to act harder than wax treated stones of the same hardness. Wax is preferred where the use of sulfur could result in stains, or where ease of filtration is a major consideration.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

SnoFarmer said:


> I'm just surprised you don't add bottel of atf to every tank.


Nah, I prefer coal dust.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Ya must have a old "diesel" from the old man.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Sulfur is great for grinding off thoes dead skin cells

Topical sulfur causes drying and peeling of the skin. This allows excess oil and dirt to be easily washed away.

Sulfur topical is used to treat acne.

Sulfur topical may also be used for purposes other than those listed in this medication guide.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Msds sulfur

Sulfur vapor may cause eye irritation. Dust contact with eyes may cause mechanical irritation (abrasion),


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

One more 
Ha...

Sulfur can be abrasive as well as corrosive, so care must be taken to use equipment that can withstand prolonged exposure to sulfur. If the sulfur is being pneumatically conveyed into a processing system, the blower used to move this material through the air line must be sized to meet the demands of system. The use of 316 grade stainless steel

https://www.flexicon.com/Materials-Handled/Sulfur.html


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

SnoFarmer said:


> Ya must have a old "diesel" from the old man.


I thought it was fitting with the windmill stuff going on earlier. :laughing:


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

But in the end you are correct, the sulfur in diesel is not the lubricant. but like so many other things today one item/substance can have many different uses/purposes.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I agree.


:waving:


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750 said:


> I thought it was fitting with the windmill stuff going on earlier. :laughing:


Coal is king


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

SnoFarmer said:


> Coal is king


I am only an hour from Centralia. Very cool place to go visit.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

I use for my 2001 f350 with a 7.3

Diesel Kleen Plus Cetane Boost -(all the time)
and 
Diesel Fuel Supplement Plus Cetane Boost -(only during the winter)

I use both every time I fill up.

You can pick them up at walmart.

Haven't had any issues at all.


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## Miguel Sanchez (Oct 20, 2015)

OMG I forgot what the topic was about. I bought some Opti-Lube Winter formulation and now i can call it a day.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Miguel Sanchez said:


> OMG I forgot what the topic was about. I bought some Opti-Lube Winter formulation and now i can call it a day.


But were you entertained?


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## Miguel Sanchez (Oct 20, 2015)

kimber750 said:


> But were you entertained?


Yep.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Miguel Sanchez said:


> Yep.


One last thing, what does your oil pan look like?


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

kimber750 said:


> One last thing, what does your oil pan look like?


50/50 chance here


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