# Brine making



## psd104 (Jan 13, 2010)

I have a silly question. I use rock salt now but I'm thinking on moving to a liquid system. Looking around I am having a hard time finding out how to make liquid. Can you mix it like pesticides? Concentrate and water and you off ? Or is it more in tailed. If I can get an explanation or pointed in the right direction that would be great.


----------



## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

psd104;2101195 said:


> I have a silly question. I use rock salt now but I'm thinking on moving to a liquid system. Looking around I am having a hard time finding out how to make liquid. Can you mix it like pesticides? Concentrate and water and you off ? Or is it more in tailed. If I can get an explanation or pointed in the right direction that would be great.


----------



## psd104 (Jan 13, 2010)

Thanks, but is there a concentrated version that can be bought and you just water. Or am I off base and everyone makes their own.


----------



## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

psd104;2102852 said:


> Thanks, but is there a concentrated version that can be bought and you just water. Or am I off base and everyone makes their own.


Concentrated salt brine?


----------



## SynaTek Solutions (Jan 25, 2016)

As far as I know there is no liquid concentrate for sodium chloride. I am a manufacturer of liquid de-icing products and all brine is made from using medium grade screened and dried sodium chloride (NaCal) into water to create a salinity of 23.7% solution. Many times we will mix in liquid calcium chloride in a 9-1 mix per gallon of finished product to help heat the mix up. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me directly. Good Luck!


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

psd104;2102852 said:


> Thanks, but is there a concentrated version that can be bought and you just water. Or am I off base and everyone makes their own.


There most certainly is.......it's called rock\bulk\bagged\solar\water softener salt.


----------



## SynaTek Solutions (Jan 25, 2016)

All of the products you listed are first granular and added to water and agitation to make a soluble solution which is re flushed through the brine equipment multiple times until the recommended salinity is met. Typically 2.28 lbs of granular sodium chloride creates 1 gallon of finished brine. Hope it helps.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

hbms4040;2103678 said:


> All of the products you listed are first granular and added to water and agitation to make a soluble solution which is re flushed through the brine equipment multiple times until the recommended salinity is met. Typically 2.28 lbs of granular sodium chloride creates 1 gallon of finished brine. Hope it helps.


It's also the only NaCl concentrate he's going to find.......unless he gets tanker loads from Great Salt Lake or the Dead Sea. Thumbs Up


----------



## psd104 (Jan 13, 2010)

Thanks for your input.


----------



## VS Innovation (Feb 9, 2016)

psd104;2101195 said:


> I have a silly question. I use rock salt now but I'm thinking on moving to a liquid system. Looking around I am having a hard time finding out how to make liquid. Can you mix it like pesticides? Concentrate and water and you off ? Or is it more in tailed. If I can get an explanation or pointed in the right direction that would be great.


Making brine is a fairly simple concept. The basic concept is as follows, salt is added to water and agitated. The mixture is agitated until a solution of 23.3% brine is achieved. Pumps are your best option for mixing. Salt is added to a tank (roughly 2.3 pounds of salt per gallon for a final solution of 23.3% when completely dissolved) and water pressure is used to mix the solution. The design of your system will dictate how long it takes to achieve the correct mixture.

Our company has been using liquid as our only means of de-icing for four years and have easily made over 150,000 gallons of brine.We have gained a lot of information about the process. Feel free to ask any questions!


----------



## CharlesVickers (Dec 11, 2020)

VS Innovation said:


> Making brine is a fairly simple concept. The basic concept is as follows, salt is added to water and agitated. The mixture is agitated until a solution of 23.3% brine is achieved. Pumps are your best option for mixing. Salt is added to a tank (roughly 2.3 pounds of salt per gallon for a final solution of 23.3% when completely dissolved) and water pressure is used to mix the solution. The design of your system will dictate how long it takes to achieve the correct mixture.
> 
> Our company has been using liquid as our only means of de-icing for four years and have easily made over 150,000 gallons of brine.We have gained a lot of information about the process. Feel free to ask any questions!


How imperative is it to be exactly 23.3 my hydrometer isnt digit so I'm always somewhat guessing, is it okay to play it safe at 23. Or is 23.5 okay.?


----------



## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Yea it’s ok. The higher or lower just makes it more or less effective that’s all


----------



## CharlesVickers (Dec 11, 2020)

Western1 said:


> Yea it's ok. The higher or lower just makes it more or less effective that's all


Awesome!! Thanks for the help!


----------



## Western1 (Dec 4, 2008)

Sure. Good luck


----------



## CharlesVickers (Dec 11, 2020)

Hey guys! Why is it all your mixing tanks are slightly elevated above the overflow tank? Is there a height difference that's more optimal?


----------



## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Optimal height to allow gravity overflow into second (lower) tank


----------



## CharlesVickers (Dec 11, 2020)

When you say gravity overflow are we talking the salinity reaches a 23.3 and also the volume of water is larger and therefore overflowing? Built in hydrometer or am I way off Haha


----------



## psd104 (Jan 13, 2010)

Question for someone. I’m making brine but the water is extremely cold like 40 degrees. Jim getting 23% after an eternity am I still in range that it should be???


----------



## NBRam1500 (Nov 22, 2019)

Salt will dissolve much faster with warmer water.


----------



## valleyviewlawns (Aug 28, 2012)

psd104 said:


> Question for someone. I'm making brine but the water is extremely cold like 40 degrees. Jim getting 23% after an eternity am I still in range that it should be???


You'll get 23.3% at that temp but when you stop circulating the brine, the salt will fall out of suspension based on the water temperature.


----------



## Subs Charlie (12 mo ago)

Holy schnikees, just realized it's been a resurrection, from '16!
When he said gravity overflow, he's referring to his design in the linked video, like the 2nd response here, where he's placing the salt in the upper tank, and gravity is drawing the "salty overflow" to the lower tank, through some filter media and then it all gets recirculated. Slowly over time, mainly depending on your flow rate, the salt content of the water increases until you reach your desired concentration level.
As far as a more concentrated version of salt, I can't imagine anything saltier than salt, but you have chosen to dive into the watered down world of brine? It's my (uneducated) understanding that temperature does affect the overall timing required, however the 23.3% is obtainable at any temperature, just may extend the time. But if you aren't fed from a 2" fill line, you are already in a losing battle with the clock anyway.

I've gotta say, @Kubota 8540 , darn man, I owe you more than a few beers, a hug n a handshake, as you and your setup are astonishing and I want to take this opportunity to say thank you for sharing your experiences and wonderful designs. 
You Sir, are the reason I finally joined, after having utilizing the wealth of information from Plowsite for a great many years......
Heck, I think it was here I learned to nutter my 87 YJ plow Jeep, among many (and I mean many) other things! I've been an outside troll for a long while, but a few of your posted links just wouldn't transfer as an outsider..... so here I am.
Great big manhug Mr Kubota 8540, Thank You Sir!

But to the group as a whole, when I see these ginormous storage tanks, to allow off season blends as well as expedite refills, it raises a question of "shelf life"?
Other than a slight stir (a lower agitation level), is there any issues that you see in having made your brine say, in July?

Thanks in advance and look forward to bugging the snot out of you again soon!


----------



## valleyviewlawns (Aug 28, 2012)

Subs Charlie said:


> Holy schnikees, just realized it's been a resurrection, from '16!
> When he said gravity overflow, he's referring to his design in the linked video, like the 2nd response here, where he's placing the salt in the upper tank, and gravity is drawing the "salty overflow" to the lower tank, through some filter media and then it all gets recirculated. Slowly over time, mainly depending on your flow rate, the salt content of the water increases until you reach your desired concentration level.
> As far as a more concentrated version of salt, I can't imagine anything saltier than salt, but you have chosen to dive into the watered down world of brine? It's my (uneducated) understanding that temperature does affect the overall timing required, however the 23.3% is obtainable at any temperature, just may extend the time. But if you aren't fed from a 2" fill line, you are already in a losing battle with the clock anyway.
> 
> ...


You can store brine indefinitely. If you mix it at 60°, obviously you're going to get 23.3%, and when the water temperature falls, some of that salt will fall out of suspension. A few minutes of agitation will put that salt back into suspension.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

valleyviewlawns said:


> You can store brine indefinitely. If you mix it at 60°, obviously you're going to get 23.3%, and when the water temperature falls, some of that salt will fall out of suspension. A few minutes of agitation will put that salt back into suspension.


What if I boil it while mixing?


----------



## valleyviewlawns (Aug 28, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What if I boil it while mixing





Mark Oomkes said:


> What if I boil it while mixing?


It won't matter. Water will not hold the salt in suspension as the water temperature lowers. Here's a link where you can read about eutectic point and phase diagram.

https://blog.iceslicer.com/eutectic-temperature-vs.-practical-temperature


----------



## Subs Charlie (12 mo ago)

Excellent, I'm guessing that link is the infamous chart I'm seeing people mentioning.....
I'd posted that initial comment prior to getting into the 32 page forum of 

*All Liquid Anti-icing/De-icing Questions Here!*
I'm nearing the end, but have certainly learned a great deal more, which of course brings about even MORE questions haha.
But as tempting as it is to just jump into the questions, I'll be reviewing the screens shots I took, and browsing the links I opened to take some notes, and better organize my plethora of questions. 
I believe I did see you chime in over there briefly and decided to "follow" you Valley View Lawns, so perhaps I'll be seeing you again soon, I hope.

@Mark Oomkes , when you say boil the mix, are you talking about heating the water to expedite the solution, or as a result of using one of the other chemicals? 
I apologize for mentioning this prior to my detailed note taking, but I'd read of one formula that will jump the water temperature up 140°? But I don't remember what that was?
But even well water today could be 55° in some parts, so with that much of a boost, you'd already be knocking at Boiling Temps. Even more so if you used hot.

Ok, I might be done on this one, again, this was one of the first forums to pop up in the search, and it's title lead me to believe it was gonna be a good one, but I'll try and stick with the All Questions one. 
Thanks again, you guys ROCK!


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Subs Charlie said:


> @Mark Oomkes , when you say boil the mix, are you talking about heating the water to expedite the solution, or as a result of using one of the other chemicals?
> I apologize for mentioning this prior to my detailed note taking, but I'd read of one formula that will jump the water temperature up 140°? But I don't remember what that was?
> But even well water today could be 55° in some parts, so with that much of a boost, you'd already be knocking at Boiling Temps. Even more so if you used hot.


I don't even remember what exactly it was all aboot. I think someone was convinced that to make brine, one had to bring the water to boiling. Or that would make it better or some ridiculous thing. It was a few years back.


----------



## valleyviewlawns (Aug 28, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't even remember what exactly it was all aboot. I think someone was convinced that to make brine, one had to bring the water to boiling. Or that would make it better or some ridiculous thing. It was a few years back.


That's in the cheese making section of the forum.


----------

