# Cat 924 H loader vs. John Deere 7330 Tractor



## firehog13 (Aug 14, 2008)

Hey guys don't know about you but I'm gearing up for snow season and I have one hell of a debate on my mind. 2011/12 Cat 924H Loader or 2011/12 John Deere 7330 Tractor for a huge 41 acre property that I just one. Now not all 41 acres is asphalt and most of it is building but never the less its big. I plan on putting a Horst 5200 snowing on which ever piece I decide because i have a 4200 snowing for my Cat 420e it backhoe and a 3200 snowing for my Takeuchi tl 140. This Region yard is a waste transfer facility and 500 hundred plus trucks coming in and out 7 days a week. I want to here from all the guys who have experience with these two pieces of equipment and tell me which one you think can push more and do a quicker job and why. I've seen videos of Farmer 4x4 on you tube with his cat loaders and I have also seen videos of JD Dave in his John deere with an ebling back blade and they are both very impressive. Thanks to all who take the time to reply cheerstymusic


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Do you have off season work for one of the units? Thats would be my deciding factor, I just bought a 906H and couldnt be happier with it! Glad I didnt get a 6430 JMO


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## firehog13 (Aug 14, 2008)

I don't have work for it yet but I'm pretty resourceful when it comes to finding work. I have lots of farmers near my house but I also have lots of construction companies and quarries that might possibly lease off me for the summer months?


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

The loader will push more and turn better with a box full of snow aslo the loader has the ability to load snow or relocate snow better. The tractor has better wheel speed and a better transmission. Whichever one you can find work for in the other seasons would probably be your best bet.


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

Like others have said, you should get what can get you work in the Summer. With that said I personaly think for the Winter you are better off with the loader. With the loader you can use the bucket to push banks back and load snow into dump truck. The tractor you can only push snow with it.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

After looking at the site, I would go with the tractor. You have some very long pushes, that the tractor will be able to do faster. I would get a semi industrial snow blower with a side discharge. You are going to be able to windrow large parts of that site, and after you can blow that snow 100 feet into the fields, leaving no piles to worry about later in the season. Either machine will do the job well, IMO the tractor will do it a little faster with a nicer end result having no piles. That's a very long road leading to the scales, if you windrow it and then blow it away, you remove the chances of larger drifts when it gets windy. Looks like wind will play a part in this site, lots of open spaces. Keep us informed, and takes some pics this season.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

i vote loader....more use

http://www.sectionalplow.com/video.html for some video of the 924h


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

I currently quote a similar property with 12 acre pavement and 400m pushes.
Same question....7430 or loader.....most places like that you see done by loaders.
One of our affiliates even said he can't push 400m with a 821 Case.


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## GMCHD plower (Nov 27, 2009)

I agree with Neige, tractor seems like it would work perfectly, and if you wanted you could get a loader on it with a snow bucket for loading trucks.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

GMCHD plower;1297969 said:


> I agree with Neige, tractor seems like it would work perfectly, and if you wanted you could get a loader on it with a snow bucket for loading trucks.


Trust me get a blower with a telescopic chute and you will rarely use a bucket again.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I find it funny how some people respond that have never used both. Personally I'd go with the loader if cost isn't an issue but for the same money as the loader you could buy 2 6430's so that would be my choice.


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## CAT 245ME (Sep 10, 2006)

If you do choose the 924H, just make sure you are getting a USA built machine and not one from Japan. The loaders that Cat manufacture in Japan are less quality than the USA machines.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

My vote is for the loader, More manuverable, turns in tighter places, and generally built heavier/stronger.

I know this isn't what the OP asked about, but if you aren't sure you have work for it in the off season, why not buy 2 used loaders. Well probably be half the price of one new one and allows for you to have some money if any repairs need to be done. I just wonder at the need for a brand new loader to push snow, I mean you are not likely using the machine near its capacity.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I'm not sure if the 924's your looking at are the ones from Erin or not but if they're I'd be a little concerned about who is going to service them if you had a breakdown. I'm sure you know they came from Arctic Snow and Ice. They sure look like nice loaders sitting there. Premier Equipment has 24 hour emergency snow repair service and there service trucks are very well equipped. Just something else for you to think about. How many actual acres of pavement are you plowing?


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Bid that place back in 2009. Figured 2 tractors as well and when you are almost done, the 2nd one can scoot over to peel other yards in the area and push them open quickly. 

They allowing you to keep equipment on site? They want nothing on site no responsibility.


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

whats the acreage on pavement? 10?


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## firehog13 (Aug 14, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies guys really means a lot to me.... To answer some questions, the actual ashpalt I think is about 20-25 acres. Yes you can leave equipment on site. Another factor is that there are 3 cat 924H loaders on site moving garbage all day and the guys already said they would push back piles or relocate snow for me if need be which could technally eliminate the need for a loaders function. But I also like the idea of a loader because of it's weight which is about 25000 lbs vs. a tractor which I think is any were from 14,000 lbs to 16,000 for long pushes. The loader seems more rugged and tough IMO as far as internal moving parts which could possibly take more of a beating over the years from all those hard winters night. This is not to say a tractor is a push over by any means and that loaders can't have problems like any other piece of equipment. Another reason im looking for new over used is for warranty and i'll be the one who breaks it in and treats it the way I like to look after my equipment and thats with respect and preventitive maintance. I'm also thinking of using my 2008 Takeuchi TL 140 with my horst snow wing and puting a set of Bridgestone Polar ice tracks on it for better traction.
I resently went to Toromont Caterpillar and tested a 2009 cat 924H loader with 1200 hrs on it that had come from London that Clintar had previsly used. It had rust and salt stains all over the conections fittings engine and steps.... this things looked like she been driven har and put away wet. They where asking $102,000 which I think reflects the price, but that gets me thinking at who used it before and how good or badly they treated the thing before me? Caterpillar told me that all the servicing had been done by them on a scehedualed maintainance program since it was new. So am I just stuck on cosmetic looks or do I have a valid reason to try and either look for another one that has not been used for snow and salt for maybe more money or get new with now worries>??????? I also payed Premier Equipment in Alliston Ontario a visit and took out a 2011 John Deere 7330 and was very impressed by the visibility and the IVT Transmission and I have nothing bad to say with this fine piece of machinery. JD Dave I would love to here so snow war storys of your JD tractor and any pros or cons over the years
using it. Thanks again to all who reply... This site rocks


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

I say you are way off with 20-25 acres....I quoted the place a couple years ago for summer work....


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## firehog13 (Aug 14, 2008)

Well, do tell how many acres of ashpalt do think?


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## R.G.PEEL (Oct 27, 2010)

I think either or will make the pushes required. They are both large and heavy enough (on their respective footprints) to take a full blade down the run in most storms. Totally depending on how long you are willing to wait to see a return on your investment, I would consider the auctions if you go the loader route. There are so many that go through at low prices you could buy one and have it gone over at toromont and be far ahead of the game. Neither will be a bad decision and I think that neiges plan with a fairly hefty blower will give a nice clean finish. I've run PTO blowers on the 7 series deere and its very impressive and cost effective. The pup diesel blowers that front mount on the loader are wild but expensive. If you don't already have summer work lined up, you need to make the decision as if there is none. Whichever you deem is the cheapest way (factoring in life expectancy, purchase price, time required etc...) is the way to go. Whatever summer work comes along with what you choose is a bonus.


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

firehog13;1298357 said:


> Well, do tell how many acres of ashpalt do think?


Around 1/2 of what you figure. The grass area and building covers more than 1/2 of your 41 acres to start with.


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## adamhumberview (Dec 27, 2009)

seen that go for tender on the region website.. good luck pal


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

firehog13, not to get off topic but how can you effectively put together a bid when you don't know how much pavement there is to plow/salt?


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## nh785 (Oct 22, 2009)

9.3 acres - skid and truck no problem - no need for heavy equipment the place would be a walk in the park.


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## Yooper75 (Dec 30, 2010)

Looking at the property my choice would be a bigger loader like a Deere 544E or 644E or similar loader with a 14ft or 16ft pusher. You can make up for wheel speed of the tractor with the extra width and capacity of the pusher on a loader. You are going to need a multi purpose machine at that property something that can push a ton of snow in one pass and also for push back/stacking as winter goes on and you run out of room. I don't move snow for a living but I have moved enough snow in my life and spent enough time in trucks and loaders to know the more versatile you are with equipment the better off you will be.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

nh785;1298420 said:


> 9.3 acres - skid and truck no problem - no need for heavy equipment the place would be a walk in the park.


Seeing your from Ky I would assume heavy equipment wouldn't be needed but your skid and pickup would be looking for a new contract the next year if you tried to do this site in our region.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

how does one get a price formulated and win the bid when to get the price you would need to know what you are going to use
I've never understood this concept where guys cam get a job with no equipment
Then just go buy what they need. For me it's always been list what your going to use. Also I guess small town playing into things with me
Most customers know what you have and what you own. If I were the customer I'd be a little reluctant to sign the deal not knowing what was plowing my yard especially that size


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

Mick76;1298416 said:


> firehog13, not to get off topic but how can you effectively put together a bid when you don't know how much pavement there is to plow/salt?


That was the point I was trying to make without being 



MIDTOWNPC;1298440 said:


> how does one get a price formulated and win the bid when to get the price you would need to know what you are going to use
> I've never understood this concept where guys cam get a job with no equipment
> Then just go buy what they need. For me it's always been list what your going to use. Also I guess small town playing into things with me
> Most customers know what you have and what you own. If I were the customer I'd be a little reluctant to sign the deal not knowing what was plowing my yard especially that size


I price per acre based on what it takes to do the job if I have the equipment or not. Tackaling a big job like that without reference sites, etc. is pretty pointless.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

I would just be scared stiff getting a job and then trying to get the equipment or trying to qualify for the payments
Otherwise your just living on a dream and a wish that everything goes thru.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

I guess I don't have the coconuts like some of you guys


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

MIDTOWNPC;1298450 said:


> I would just be scared stiff getting a job and then trying to get the equipment or trying to qualify for the payments
> Otherwise your just living on a dream and a wish that everything goes thru.


I can handle a job like that with what I got and not sacrifice to much on service to other clients. Currently working on a bigger property with a salt bin on-site which takes away on travel time to other clients and also allows for equipment to be closer. These are all factors that play into the decission to make the bid not just plain equipment.

Once you have the larger machines it opens doors to bigger properties that you just can't get with trucks (or better don't want to get). That's at least my expierience.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

I know I need to get a tractor as it would eliminate trucks. I just find I make alot now and don't want to spend when I can just sit here and harvest the $ with what I have right now 

bidding a job and getting a job is a big difference. I know even you have said if before. Once you get a tractor you think differently. Like wow what was I doing before.


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

jd dave;1298439 said:


> seeing your from ky i would assume heavy equipment wouldn't be needed but your skid and pickup would be looking for a new contract the next year if you tried to do this site in our region.


 i agree!!!


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

Here is a place we are quoting currently, wouldn't even attempt that without a tractor! I think a tractor is even a bit small to do it. My price is based on 2 machines on site and feed other properties close by with equipment and salt. \either I quote direct or have a sub in there with a loader if I get it.


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## nh785 (Oct 22, 2009)

J.D. Dave I have plowed in other regions. if my memory is right Ontario gets about 80" a year. take a look at the property again. It is all windrow and tons of storage area + it's only 9.3 acres. he said they will push back with loaders on site if needed. But a blower on a bobcat would work also. I can'y see dedicating $100,000+ piece of equip for 9 acres.


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## adamhumberview (Dec 27, 2009)

this particular contract was split and awarded to 2 contractors. the combination of both contractors multiplied by 3 still does not equal the next bidder in line!! 

should be borderline with a bobcat and backhoe.. and thats calling it tight


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

nh785;1298472 said:


> J.D. Dave I have plowed in other regions. if my memory is right Ontario gets about 80" a year. take a look at the property again. It is all windrow and tons of storage area + it's only 9.3 acres. he said they will push back with loaders on site if needed. But a blower on a bobcat would work also. I can'y see dedicating $100,000+ piece of equip for 9 acres.


There is no way that a truck and a bobcat are going to get the job done. What size truck are we talking about, because you will be windrowing lots of passes. I can see no use for a blower on a bobcat at this location.



adamhumberview;1298499 said:


> this particular contract was split and awarded to 2 contractors. the combination of both contractors multiplied by 3 still does not equal the next bidder in line!!
> 
> should be borderline with a bobcat and backhoe.. and thats calling it tight


Yikes, was it a multi year contract?


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## adamhumberview (Dec 27, 2009)

Neige;1298508 said:


> There is no way that a truck and a bobcat are going to get the job done. What size truck are we talking about, because you will be windrowing lots of passes. I can see no use for a blower on a bobcat at this location.
> 
> Yikes, was it a multi year contract?


I am not sure if it was a multi year contract.

For the size and the amount of work involved, he is gonna get burnt. With 500+ waste trucks a day cruising in and out.. meaning over 1000+ people a day in and out of that place.. bet your bottom dollar hes gonna be doing some serious salting..not to mention the 2 decent size machines needed there..and ontop of it all.. HE STILL HAS TO DO ALL THE SUMMER MAINTENANCE!! I would rather stay home than kill myself for $120,000.


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## joey7599 (Jun 27, 2010)

Go with the cat all the way.......you will not regreat it


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

adamhumberview;1298511 said:


> I am not sure if it was a multi year contract.
> 
> For the size and the amount of work involved, he is gonna get burnt. With 500+ waste trucks a day cruising in and out.. meaning over 1000+ people a day in and out of that place.. bet your bottom dollar hes gonna be doing some serious salting..not to mention the 2 decent size machines needed there..and ontop of it all.. HE STILL HAS TO DO ALL THE SUMMER MAINTENANCE!! I would rather stay home than kill myself for $120,000.


If I remember corectly they don't want to see you in any public places after 7.00am or so. Might be different for that site since it is a collction/transfer station but the public yards are like that.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

nh785;1298472 said:


> J.D. Dave I have plowed in other regions. if my memory is right Ontario gets about 80" a year. take a look at the property again. It is all windrow and tons of storage area + it's only 9.3 acres. he said they will push back with loaders on site if needed. But a blower on a bobcat would work also. I can'y see dedicating $100,000+ piece of equip for 9 acres.


Sure you can do this property with a truck and skidsteer, just plan on leaving them there for 4-6 hours per event and if it is a heavy snow fall, plan that your machines are probably going to stay there 24/7. And of course make sure that your client is ok with this level of service.

Now if you are planning on doing it in 2 hours or less, with a skidsteer and truck there is no way it can be done.


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## 4x4Farmer (Sep 22, 2006)

Sorry it took so long for me to see this, been a busy weekend. I guess you said you have seen my videos, so take that what its worth and I think JD and Neige has summed things up pretty good.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Ok I need someone to please elaborate on what size truck you are talking about. I look at that site, and other than an hours work for the skid, I cannot see any use after that for the large open areas, or the long pushes. Since I cannot find the site on google earth, I am estimating that the pushes will be around 1500 feet long.


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

A little less, +/- 1200'
Not up to me to expose the location.
Will be lots of fun with a pickup and skid!


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Neige;1298695 said:


> Ok I need someone to please elaborate on what size truck you are talking about. I look at that site, and other than an hours work for the skid, I cannot see any use after that for the large open areas, or the long pushes. Since I cannot find the site on google earth, I am estimating that the pushes will be around 1500 feet long.


Which one Paul? The one from the original post? I don't think its a secret most of us in the GTA know it and have bid it in the past. Lowest price is the law. They want a 3 and 5 year optional price but it usually goes out to tender again in 2 to 3 years. 7795 Torbram Rd.

I saw a guy cutting one of there other sites all he had was a chevy astro van snowbear trailer and home depot lawn tractor. Grass clippings all over the place.


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## cole22 (Feb 14, 2010)

I would go with the tractor. Reasons of you can add a loader to the tractor to move snow with a bucket or stack snow with the blade. And also you can add a snow blower to the back to stack snow to sometime eliminate that hauling of snow witch is a huge selling point for me. I already have other contractors calling me again for this next year to stack and blow snow for them. If you rent your loader out construction guys can be hard on loaders... I'm in the dirt moving business also. IMO. Good luck!


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Grassman09;1298852 said:


> Which one Paul? The one from the original post? I don't think its a secret most of us in the GTA know it and have bid it in the past. Lowest price is the law. They want a 3 and 5 year optional price but it usually goes out to tender again in 2 to 3 years. 7795 Torbram Rd.
> 
> I saw a guy cutting one of there other sites all he had was a chevy astro van snowbear trailer and home depot lawn tractor. Grass clippings all over the place.


Thanks Dave that's the one I wanted. Its a little smaller than I expected, still have a hard time believing a pick-up and SS can do the job.


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## firehog13 (Aug 14, 2008)

Listen guys, I spent many hours/days crunching numbers and I know lowest price usually wins. I'm a growing business and need to take chances/build a portfolio. I am sure everyone has been in the position or will be at one time or another where you bid/win contracts where you need to buy additional equipment. Otherwise, how would you grow? I like this site to get other opinions of people doing similar jobs, etc. I don't think it's necessary to discuss pricing and whether I under bid or make judgements on my decisions. The question was Loader or Tractor. I appreciate all the valuable feedback I did receive. I am still throwing around different ideas including moving my current backhoe and SS and invest in some new pick up trucks to do the work the machines did, plus be at the new sites. I'm always running ideas through my head so I appreciate everyone reading and responding, helps me out big time!


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I'm sure you will be fine.

It is funny how guys think you work for free or wages because you are low bid. I have approx 65 sites that we do now that we were low bid on. I would take as many as I could find for the same pricing. There are a number of factors that go into pricing.


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## DuramaxLML-42 (Jan 8, 2011)

Id say go with the Loader, ive run that exact model of machine and it is a really good hard runner. Put a 16FT Arctic Sectional on her and you will see how much having a wheel loader can kick ass! The tractor maybe faster but it cant stack snow and the loader arms arent always strong enough to carry the plow and stack with it... Trust me on this, we run over 60+ loaders in the chicago land area and we have been for over 30 years, they are the way to plow snow on medium to large lots.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

firehog13;1298914 said:


> Listen guys, I spent many hours/days crunching numbers and I know lowest price usually wins. I'm a growing business and need to take chances/build a portfolio. I am sure everyone has been in the position or will be at one time or another where you bid/win contracts where you need to buy additional equipment. Otherwise, how would you grow? I like this site to get other opinions of people doing similar jobs, etc. I don't think it's necessary to discuss pricing and whether I under bid or make judgements on my decisions. The question was Loader or Tractor. I appreciate all the valuable feedback I did receive. I am still throwing around different ideas including moving my current backhoe and SS and invest in some new pick up trucks to do the work the machines did, plus be at the new sites. I'm always running ideas through my head so I appreciate everyone reading and responding, helps me out big time!


Good on you, never stop thinking I like how you are keeping an open mind. As far as pricing every-ones pricing should be different. Know your costs and then decide what you want for profit and go for it. We run a very lean business where the owners will put in 90 hrs a week if we have to. The more I can do the less I have to pay someone to do it for me. As you can see in my other thread, I am the lowest bidder on some schools. I priced them to get the work and to make decent profit. This time I was the lowest the next time I will be the highest. I find most pricing is just not logical, but then again I am not in their shoes. Price what is right for you, and who cares what others think, its your business right.


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## GLLLC (Jan 13, 2004)

nh785;1298420 said:


> 9.3 acres - skid and truck no problem - no need for heavy equipment the place would be a walk in the park.


WOW what goes on down south? I can guarantee one good storm and your all done. Not only are you gonna loose the contract but your gonna have to call a wrecker to pull out your two buried machines.

One other point nobody has mentioned if its not a multi year contract, which machine will bring you the most resale and which will be the easiest unit to sell if you cant put it to work if you don't get renewed? I know either machine will get it done.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

firehog13;1298914 said:


> Listen guys, I spent many hours/days crunching numbers and I know lowest price usually wins. I'm a growing business and need to take chances/build a portfolio. I am sure everyone has been in the position or will be at one time or another where you bid/win contracts where you need to buy additional equipment. Otherwise, how would you grow? I like this site to get other opinions of people doing similar jobs, etc. I don't think it's necessary to discuss pricing and whether I under bid or make judgements on my decisions. The question was Loader or Tractor. I appreciate all the valuable feedback I did receive. I am still throwing around different ideas including moving my current backhoe and SS and invest in some new pick up trucks to do the work the machines did, plus be at the new sites. I'm always running ideas through my head so I appreciate everyone reading and responding, helps me out big time!


Have you looked into a snow lease on Tractors or Loaders from Elmira Farm Service / Total Equipment rentals or whatever they call them selfs now. For a little bit more you can own one I know that as I decided to own vs rent.

When did peel change the bid specs to allow contractors to store equipment on site? Last tender that went out last year (don't think it included your site) allot of us were asking to keep equipment on site and they said NO. That was for the community recycling centers and works yard.


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