# Lawsuits



## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

Well, I'm done dealing with my two customers from last year that thought they could get away without paying me for plowing.

Customer number 1 owed me for the final 4 plows of the season. They paid me all they owed me, plus my costs, plus their attorney fees. After all was said and done they probably paid $1,000 more than if they would have just paid to begin with. I represented myself and their lawyer wanted to settle right off the bat after reading the contract. I told him this is an open and shut case and I will not settle for less than what they owe me. Got the check yesterday.payup

Customer number 2 I stopped plowing in December after no payments made. He was a no show in court twice and I got a default judgment. I sued him for not only what he owed me, but "lost revenue' as well. I stopped plowing him in december and felt he should pay me the money I would have made plowing him all season. I turned down other accounts because with him I was booked up and then when I had to drop him I had a truck that wasn't fully booked and it cost me a lot of money. And guess what? The judge agreed! I am not holding my breath for the check, but he does have his property for sale and when it sells I have a lien on it. payup

My point is, if someone owes you money SUE. Have a good contract, document EVERYTHING, and do not be afraid to go the legal route.


----------



## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

nice work
congrats
Nothing makes me madder than people who don't pay.
The bane of the businessman.


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

well yeah sue there ass if its worth the time and money 

if its over 20 bucks then just plow them in...plow the enitre street into there drive way over night


----------



## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

I wanted to plow in the guy that didn't pay at all, but I could just see the trespassing or whatever ticket, so I opted not to, but god I wanted to!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## NoFearDeere (Nov 7, 2005)

I turned a company over to collections that owes me $1500.00 from last year. BTW, anyone in the Chicago area know where I could go find the Roadmaster Tire corporate office?


----------



## storm king (Sep 17, 2008)

Good for you , the pen is mighter than the sword they say.... 
I have a few customers that I do on a handshake deal ,(and like it that way)but not many the way things are theese days 
Had a few I thought about plowing in myself but never did it. 
Glad to hear you got what you deserved and worked for , just sucks you had to go to court to get it.
Storm King


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Ipushsnow;592094 said:


> I wanted to plow in the guy that didn't pay at all, but I could just see the trespassing or whatever ticket, so I opted not to, but god I wanted to!!!!!!!!!!!


naaa, just be creative

when you plow , do it at night, and never step on his property, just keep your truck on the city side and just keep stacking snow at the end... no need to be on his property.... ill plow the street if somebody pissed me off enough. never had too

but i do have a guy that owes me 350 , he hired me and another landscaper to mow? for what ever reason - so he paid that guy and refused to pay me,.... i have so wanted to put some round up in a high pressure sprayer... and just drive by nice and slow.....


----------



## storm king (Sep 17, 2008)

Yea I know the feeling , but trust me it aint worth it just move on to next one. 
And stop giving me good ideas LOL


----------



## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

take your time too, bring your Vee blade with wings, and salt there grass for them , after all dont want snow on the lawn


----------



## snowplowchick (Feb 22, 2008)

Just got paid this week from a municipality that owed for snow removal from last season. Was ready to hire a lawyer too as it was over 10K they owed. When repeatedly told to pay outstanding account, the supervisor passed the buck to the accounting staff saying it was their fault. Needless to say we are not going to be doing their snow this winter.


----------



## smoore45 (Oct 27, 2007)

StormKing, out of curiousity, under what circumstances would you rather have a "handshake deal" than a written contract? The only handshake deal I have is my parents driveway.

Not being critical, just curious.


----------



## Vaughn Schultz (Nov 18, 2004)

NoFearDeere;592102 said:


> I turned a company over to collections that owes me $1500.00 from last year. BTW, anyone in the Chicago area know where I could go find the Roadmaster Tire corporate office?


ha ha I bid in their locations this year and then they told me they plow in house


----------



## storm king (Sep 17, 2008)

smoore 45,
I would have to say speaking for myself and only for myself that so far I have never been burned on any "handshake " deals yet, some go back close to 20 years, Even a builder who subs out to my excavating co . not implying it may work for you or anyone for that matter ......
What can I say ? it's a risk I take and the few I have never let me down so far.


----------



## IC-Smoke (Feb 15, 2008)

did you have your contracts viewed by a lawyer before you had the customer sign?


----------



## yard5864 (Nov 8, 2007)

glad it all worked out for you. I had to send out 1 letter threatening collections, a week later got the check.


----------



## dfdsuperduty (Dec 12, 2006)

elite1msmith;592266 said:


> naaa, just be creative
> 
> but i do have a guy that owes me 350 , he hired me and another landscaper to mow? for what ever reason - so he paid that guy and refused to pay me,.... i have so wanted to put some round up in a high pressure sprayer... and just drive by nice and slow.....


Round up is ok but muriatic acid is better


----------



## lcncapo (Nov 30, 2007)

ipushsnow - any chance of you posting a copy of this contract? want to see if i am leaving out anything important and yours has already stood up to the test twice.

thanks in advance,
rob


----------



## platinumpimps (Oct 18, 2008)

ipushsnow, yeah i would like to see that contract as I have a customer from last year who owes 300.00 yet, i did sent out a threat to collection notice and called plenty of times. but no call back. thanks in advance.


----------



## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

I guess I'm gonna take some crap here, but I have yet to ever use a contract, except for the Mall parking lot in the 90's. I have never had a problem and have never had to take anyone to court. Call it just lucky I guess, or maybe the fact that I was a cop for 25 years may have swayed someone?? This year I had one resturant take until last month to pay their bill off, but they got'er done. In the very few instances where I have needed to "bug" someone for payment, I let them know what the legal procedure would be if we have to go to court. I think relaying to them that I know what I'm talking about also makes a diff. Oh...for those lots that only want salt "per call" I have them sign a statement to that effect, that way if someone falls and I haven't salted, I still in good shape.


----------



## storm king (Sep 17, 2008)

Grampa plow - handshake deals work fine for me too... 
Bieng a cop don't mean sh-t in court and if you don't hae a contract good luck ,plus plowing for moneys is illegal on your part if you ain't legit,( your partner is the tax man -just like the rest of us or you take your chances ) a verbal agreement will not stand a chance in court once the lawyers get involved , we tried it and it wasn't worth it to file and loose .
In the past few years a bunch of landscapers have been complaining to the county and towns for all the retired cops and firemen who ride around with a mower and get away with murder doing buisness and are not legit. 
We do not have a retirement plan like you guys and if we have to play by the book so do you guys,its only fair and I got no problem picking up the phone to help put a stop to it , our local chamber is really agressive twards stopping it too.


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

storm king;621624 said:


> Grampa plow - handshake deals work fine for me too...
> Bieng a cop don't mean sh-t in court and if you don't hae a contract good luck ,plus plowing for moneys is illegal on your part if you ain't legit,( your partner is the tax man -just like the rest of us or you take your chances ) a verbal agreement will not stand a chance in court once the lawyers get involved , we tried it and it wasn't worth it to file and loose .
> In the past few years a bunch of landscapers have been complaining to the county and towns for all the retired cops and firemen who ride around with a mower and get away with murder doing buisness and are not legit. We do not have a retirement plan like you guys and if we have to play by the book so do you guys,its only fair and I got no problem picking up the phone to help put a stop to it , our local chamber is really agressive twards stopping it too.


Couldn't agree more. If anyone is expected to do this by the book it would be this group. Shame on anyone who is not legit.


----------



## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

I won't risk offending you or anyone else by responding to what I consider bull xxx. I'll just leave at this by saying:
1. If you have a good reputation in a community
2. You are trustworthy
3. You under promise and over perform
4. Mean what you say, and say what you mean
you will have very few problems in the business community. Many times you can sort out those who you shouldn't deal with, thus eliminating problems before they occur.

As far as my business is concerned, I have been doing it for 38 years, I have full insurance with an extra umbrella for my personal property, Have a sales tax permit, and pay more than my fair share of taxes. If YOU or any of your landscapers buddies happen to not like fair head to head competition, then I would suggest you go on welfare, so you don't have to work so hard. I for one have worked 2 jobs most of my life to get to where I am. I don't like loosing jobs to other who undercut my rates, but if I do, so be it. What makes YOUR business legit and mine not legit. Oh...I go to our Chamber PM meetings on a regular basis. Can anyone tell me what "plowing for moneys is illegal on your part if you ain't legit means?? Storm King...can you define legit? One last thing...don't forget, there may be a time those cops and fireman might have to risk their lives for yours...treat them well!!


----------



## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

stormking

is it not a bit of a leap to assume(ass-u-me) someone isnt legit

if your contract isnt properly written and exacuted it will be your biggest nightmare in court

i partially agree, i dont like off duty cops and ff and the like for competition but it is a free country, you going to tell a retired soldier that he cant plow snow or landscape


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Interesting conversation.

It's actually the landscapers that annoy me. Since they get the grass in the summer they can bid the snow low and get the property for year round.
Any one else bids they just bid on snow. Landscaper bids they can bid lower and hedge it because of the grass season. There also carrrying the insurance and have the equipment year round so arent dealing with any extra expenses over snow.


----------



## storm king (Sep 17, 2008)

Granpa plow , I shouldn't have jumped the gun if you are on the up and up then it wasn't directed at you my apologies. 
Sadly most of the scabs around here are ex firefighters and cops , just stating a fact thats all.
DO NOT put words in my mouth I never said anything about thier ability to protect and serve and I am happy for ya for bieing a retired cop and hope you enjoyed policeing you little town or city ,in a senese I too have police expierience as I served in the first gulf and honoribly did 8 years in th UNITED STATES MARINE CORP. We police the world for that matter . Also have a brother USMC ret. now working for the CIA. and a sister who is NYPD . So get of the hiprocital ex cop high horse , cause your barking up the wrong tree.
Maybe the next time I don't see a cop on the phone driving , speeding ,not wearing a seat belt , leaving the bar half bagged while he gives out tickets for such things , but hides behind a shield when it comes to him or her, my respect may go up a few notches for them . But for now I aint impressed.


----------



## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

I can tell your an educated marine...and thank you for your service!. I don't get on this site to toss barbs...we'll agree to disagree and leave it go at that.


----------



## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

Oops...our little community consists of about 100,000! Have a great day!


----------



## storm king (Sep 17, 2008)

Gramps it's gettin ugly and Ishould know better ,I do have a lot of respect for any good cops who served believe it or not . 
I was getting out of hand with a few of thoes comments , but it's getting tougher every day and the scabs really pi$$ me off thats all, typing here aint gonna change that, or stop all the guys I compete with around here employing illegals ....I take pride in not doing that ,I alsoknow that after all we all came from somewhere elese , but most of are grandparents came here with dry backs and did it right and took pride in the country . 
Not sending thier US money home to mexico or guetamalla so the can go there after they retire , and not pay taxes.
That kind of stuff really burns me up , and I feel sorry for the up comming generations who think it is cool to do so ,cause when the illegals next generation come of age they are gonna out work the hell out of are boys in this business im sorry to say......


----------



## storm king (Sep 17, 2008)

I was trying to be nice untill your second wise ass post poped up after mine , if you think a 100-000 is a lot of people well all I can say is stop kissin your cousin ....inbreeding is a horrible thing ,nuff said


----------



## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

I have the same problem with one of our lawn services undercutting my (and everyone else's prices) and he is using people who can't speak english! But I don't know that he is not paying a fair wage, that his employees have or don't have driver's licenses, so rather than assume, I keep my mouth shut. But nothing keeps me from mumbling under my breath....."some day, some day." Until then, I keep my fingers crossed. Oh, by the way, he doesn't like me very much, I tell all of the folks that chose him over my price to keep my bid close...just in case. I got called by 2 of them last year, before the end of December, I was doing them in Jan!! Guess who's doing them this year?? I understand your pain!


----------



## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

storm king;621768 said:


> I was trying to be nice untill your second wise ass post poped up after mine , if you think a 100-000 is a lot of people well all I can say is stop kissin your cousin ....inbreeding is a horrible thing ,nuff said


hey Gramps how did he know about you and your cousin


----------



## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

storm king;621761 said:


> ,I do have a lot of respect for any good cops who served believe it or not .
> QUOTE]
> 
> I have respect for about one cop in ten. Usually the prior military ones. The other nine were probably too chicken sh*t to go in the military and ought to be bounced off the payroll to save the taxpayers money.
> We dont need to pay fifty k a year to a fat guy to hand out parking tickets. Usually the fat guys boss (the cop brass) makes double that and canning him would definatley save the taxpayers money.


----------



## storm king (Sep 17, 2008)

YOU SURE GOT THAT RIGHT !!!!!,Bribribus


----------



## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

Yep Crete... first it was me an ma cusin...then I found da girl dat I lovd. Dat din't work out so I got married...den we got devorced. Hey Crete...one questin...afta da devorce...is she still ma sister? Hell, I retired to get away from loud mouthed, uneducated, know it all drunken know nuthins...who *****ed about the law, got tickets up the wazoo and blamed everything and everyone else (including the cops) except their own drunken ineptness. I'd compare most cops on this planet against the whiners (who? on this thread) who probably have had their worst encounter trying to get onto or off of a bar stool. By the way, spell check is available to all in the upper right hand corner of the message box. My daddy always said "son, it's just not fair to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man." Now, as I said before, leave it alone and we should just agree to disagree.


----------



## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Grampa Plow;622229 said:


> Yep Crete... first it was me an ma cusin...then I found da girl dat I lovd. Dat din't work out so I got married...den we got devorced. Hey Crete...one questin...afta da devorce...is she still ma sister? Hell, I retired to get away from loud mouthed, uneducated, know it all drunken know nuthins...who *****ed about the law, got tickets up the wazoo and blamed everything and everyone else (including the cops) except their own drunken ineptness. I'd compare most cops on this planet against the whiners (who? on this thread) who probably have had their worst encounter trying to get onto or off of a bar stool. By the way, spell check is available to all in the upper right hand corner of the message box. My daddy always said "son, it's just not fair to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man." Now, as I said before, leave it alone and we should just agree to disagree.


Gramps the sister thing was a little over the top


----------



## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

That was just my "back hills country boy" upbringing coming through since I live and work in a backwoods community of only 100,000.


----------



## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

good luck. i understand if you feel comfortable with your customers enough to not have contracts but frankly, i dont trust even the people ive been plowing for 7 yrs. contracts spell out everything, from trigger amounts, responsibility of salting, responsibility of sidewalks, payment terms and consequences. it's just too risky to not have anything signed and in place these days and i wouldnt advise anyone new to operate without contracts and signed agreements.


----------



## platinumpimps (Oct 18, 2008)

bribrious, I do landscape and snow removal. We still pay quite a bit for insurance especially for plowing. it is an added liability you know. And why should'nt we bid the snow a little lower if we have a company sign up for a Full Service agreement? Not saying that I personally charge less because a customer has me do the lawn and snow, but I will give them a deal if they are going with both services. Only makes sense if you want the business.

"A good reputation is based on being the best, not the cheapest!"


----------

