# Why so many lights in the front?



## Hubjeep

I see many plow vehicles that are quite light heavy in the front (headlight, grille strobes, etc). Do you try to pull people over?? Rear and side is my priority for backing out into a road and reducing the chance of being rear-ended when pulled over on the side of the road. 

IMO, the plow headlights do a fine job at making the front of the vehicle visible. I only have a small amber windshield LED facing forward.


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## procut1

Because to them it looks cool and they like it. And a snowstorm is one of the few times a year they can drive around with it all blazing without getting stopped.


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## REAPER

procut1;1240127 said:


> Because to them it looks cool and they like it. And a snowstorm is one of the few times a year they can drive around with it all blazing without getting stopped.


X2

I have 2 amber LED's in front for when I am plowing a road. Otherwise they are off because I can't stand the flashback.

In Illinois it is supposed to be illegal to run white strobes but like the weight restriction laws it is selectively enforced,


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## Jacobsmovinsnow

You dont need your lights all a flashing when your inbetween jobs in a truck. Its like a tow truck operator on a flatbed having lights on his truck while travelling with a car on the back. Well in that case all 18 wheelers should have lights on cuz they got a load on the back. They are just in the Hey Look at me Im Snowplowing stage. Give em time theyll grow out of it.


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## BC Handyman

procut1 is right I think. Heck I know when I'm on site I got all lights a blazing. It comes in handy once in a while. I only have my back-up buddy strobe on while I drive. I also dont have any front strobes at all(my rotater and headlights are good enough) I will say if I had front strobes I would use them while I was on site. I like flashing like a airport while I'm on site


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## Rc2505

The only time I use any of my warning lights is when I am on site. I think you look ******** driving down the road with caution lights on, and nothing happening other than driving.


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## KEC Maintaince

here in jersey any time a tow truck has a car on the hook or flat bed they are suppose to have at least theit hazards on.


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## snoway63

I think some drivers today get to distracted looking at all the lights instead of paying attention to the road, too many lights are not good, and you shouldnt have them on while driving down the road while not plowing, your vehicle lights are enough to keep the liability down


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## muzicmon101

I only have the Whelen 2012 Rapid Fire Strobe Beacon and 2 flood lights on the bumper. I keep them on from the time I start plowing until the time I stop but all of my driveways, business are pretty much within 100 feet of each other. It takes me less than 1 minute to get to another driveway or business. I just don't want to over work the switches. Durring really bad storms, I put my 4 ways on, and the strobe because my headlights are really crappy even on full beam. Plus here in Vermont the out-of-staters with their 4WD think that since they have 4WD they can still go 60. 1 strobe is all I need, I don't plow with the 4 ways on though unless I am doing apartment complexes. I don't know if anyone has seen the 2012 in action but I am really impressed with it. Flash back from the snow flying off the plow or coming down from the sky is a pain but no complaints.

I also run my strobe during the summer time to because it is a caution/warning light. Any time I am working on the side of the road, or I am hauling a 20 foot loaded hay wagon, I want people to go slow when they are around me. Especially when I'm pulled off on the side of the road.


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## fiveoboy01

Jacobsmovinsnow;1240165 said:


> You dont need your lights all a flashing when your inbetween jobs in a truck. Its like a tow truck operator on a flatbed having lights on his truck while travelling with a car on the back. Well in that case all 18 wheelers should have lights on cuz they got a load on the back. They are just in the Hey Look at me Im Snowplowing stage. Give em time theyll grow out of it.


It's not about that, it's about getting the attention of cars even while on the road.

How well do you think a 1 ton stops/turns with a plow hanging off the front and a full v-box in the rear? Especially in snow...

The main reason I leave them on while driving... Oncoming plow truck drivers know there is another plow truck coming. We can give each other more space that way, as we take up a wider swath of roadway with the plow on the front. I'd rather not tag plows with some guy going the other way....

I can live with your "not grown up" label, while continuing to drive with the warning lights on.


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## mferrari

8ft blade plus wings brings my blade to 10' 1" wide. I run with the lights on to and from jobs because I am so wide and it helps to give notice to drivers in front or coming up behind me. It also helps with those people that feel the need to drive 2 mph if it is barely snowing, they see the lights and big blade and normally move over. Thumbs Up

I have a 12" LED dash light, mini pinnacle up top, two 12" lights in the rear window. If visiblity is really bad or someone is extra close I have a light that mounts on the visor I will flip down.


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## Mstrfxit12

I'm going with the "look at me, look at me" cause. And I just saw a story frro Maine over the last week that they were going to be cracking down on it. 
Additonally, to Mferrari, I wanted to caution you on your overwidth rational there. I posted these stories a couple of years ago and they might interest you.

WOONSOCKET -- When Raymond Boucher came home from work, he would go check on his father. He'd do the same before he went to sleep.

"He was an angel," his father, Raymond Boucher Sr. said.
This morning, 48-year-old Raymond Boucher died after being struck by a snow plow driven by a private contractor on Cumberland Street near Cass Avenue.
Boucher was on his way to work at the nearby CVS warehouse, walking in the streets because the sidewalks were icy. 
According to Maj. Richard Dubios of the Woonsocket police, sidewalks near schools take priority for plowing over other areas. Woonsocket Middle School is located a short distance to the west on Park Place.
The driver and owner of the truck, Krrzysztof Mirga, called the police and cooperated fully, Dubios said. *He was cited for violations including violations of plow blade length and weight restrictions*. He was not being contracted by the city.
Boucher, who ran track in the Special Olympics, lived in the same apartment building with his father and had worked at the CVS distribution center for nearly 30 years. 
A statement from the company said Boucher was "a valued member of the CVS team and he was respected and well-liked by his colleagues. We extend our sincere condolences to Raymond's family."
Mayor Susan Menard was not available for comment. 
-- with reports from Journal staff writer Tatiana Pina

In the Woonsocket accident Wednesday Merga's dump truck plow was listed as owned by K&K Masonry and was setup to do private plowing and sanding, according to Dubois. 
Because of the vehicle's size and equipment, Dubois said police contacted the State Police commercial enforcement unit to conduct an inspection of the truck.
*The vehicle was found to exceed the 8-foot wide plow limit by two feet and the truck's load the weight limit by 400 pounds.*The truck had an attached sanding unit as well as a cargo of sand when the accident occurred, Dubois noted.
Although two commercial truck infractions were found, Dubois said it not been determined Wednesday if plow length and weight differences were factors in the accident. 
Boucher was struck by the outlying corner of the plow but Dubois said it was not known if the added length contributed to the accident.

Just thought you guys might want to see this.


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## fiveoboy01

*Although two commercial truck infractions were found, Dubois said it not been determined Wednesday if plow length and weight differences were factors in the accident.
Boucher was struck by the outlying corner of the plow but Dubois said it was not known if the added length contributed to the accident.*

Might want to bold that part too.

And the part where the guy was walking on the street....



> I'm going with the "look at me, look at me" cause.


You're correct. I want cars and pedestrians to see me, because I don't have the best visibility out of my truck at times.


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## mwalsh9152

I have a dash light mounted to my windshield, and I have a set of hide away led's that will be going into the plow headlights. Why? Because every instance is different. When I clear my mothers driveway I have to be facing the wrong way on a small narrow one way street, at the end of a blind corner. I want to have as much light as possible at that point so someone will know theyre coming up on something. 

In the back window I have a 6 head led bar, and will be putting led hide aways in the tail lights. The extra lights in the back window are for when Im clearing the entrance and exits of the parking lots I plow on a busy highway, and I want more light high in the rear. When Im just in the lot with cars around, I'll run the corner lights. But when Im in riskier situations, I dont want to trust the visibility of the corner lights which are pretty low for traffic visibility. 

Running with the lights on from site to site is stupid. Ive driven every kind of tow truck, from 1 ton pickup chassis' to 50 Ton class 8 wreckers, and when I would run at night I often wouldnt run with the strobes on just going down the road, even though I was technicially supposed to be. They annoyed me, never mind everyone else on the road with me.


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## Hubjeep

fiveoboy01;1240950 said:


> The main reason I leave them on while driving... Oncoming plow truck drivers know there is another plow truck coming. We can give each other more space that way, as we take up a wider swath of roadway with the plow on the front. I'd rather not tag plows with some guy going the other way...


Good point, that makes sense.


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## forbidden

fiveoboy01;1240950 said:


> It's not about that, it's about getting the attention of cars even while on the road.
> 
> *You do mean getting everyone to look at you and get them to laugh hysterically at you....*
> 
> How well do you think a 1 ton stops/turns with a plow hanging off the front and a full v-box in the rear? Especially in snow...
> 
> *You are the person in care and control of your vehicle. If you have a problem with stopping and turning, especially in the snow, stop driving now.*
> 
> The main reason I leave them on while driving... Oncoming plow truck drivers know there is another plow truck coming. We can give each other more space that way, as we take up a wider swath of roadway with the plow on the front. I'd rather not tag plows with some guy going the other way....
> 
> *So I guess the fully loaded rig coming straight at you that does not have flashing lights on it gets to come even closer to you based on your views? What about the average car driver when you are on a narrow road, now he is even closer and you want to blind him? Does your plow stick out more than your mirrors do? If so you are more than likely in contravention of the motor vehicle act and in the event of a collision would be found liable. No amount of flashing lights is going to help you there bud. You should take up no more amount of roadway that any other vehicle on the road unless licensed to do so. Are you licensed to do so? Are you insured so that when the day comes that you hit someone (especially since you have told us you have problems driving around corners and stopping in snow) you are able to keep working or are you ready to pay the man for the rest of your life?*
> I can live with your "not grown up" label, while continuing to drive with the warning lights on.


You have eyes and common sense, why not try using it. If you are not employed to be working on a roadway with your equipment, you have no need to use your lights. Sorry dude but all I read is excuses and not valid and or legal reasons.


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## Burkartsplow

I never use my fronts as there is to much flashback plus the lightbar on top takes care of the front and and I only turn on my taillight strobes when I know I am backing up around a blind corner, and 95% I turn them off when I leave a site. The exception is when I forget sometimes.


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## Dissociative

fiveoboy01;1240950 said:


> I'd rather not tag plows with some guy going the other way....


 i really thought this was the plow guy "high five"....i mean i have been slapping plows with all the guys i drive by for a long time..:salute:

This is not a good thing to be doing??


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## cameo89

Dissociative;1242395 said:


> i really thought this was the plow guy "high five"....i mean i have been slapping plows with all the guys i drive by for a long time..:salute:
> 
> This is not a good thing to be doing??


I just used the ''LIKE'' button. lol


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## YardMedic

fiveoboy01;1241443 said:


> *not been determined Wednesday if plow length and weight differences were factors in the accident*
> 
> Might want to bold that part too.


Anyone who doesn't KNOW the extra length was a huge contributing factor is pretty freakin soft. It's like saying you're not sure smoking caused the cancer. No sh*t sherlock... nothing is 100%, but the preponderance of evidence is enough to suggest with overwhelming certainty.


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## EGLC

honestly who cares what guys do or don't do with their lights?? its not hurting anyone. I don't have any lights on my trucks besides a light bar and we keep them on all storm, when you're driving around at 2am in heavy snow I don't want some idiot coming into my lane.


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## snoway63

many state have wide load laws which require permits, which might mean anything over 102 inches i believe is considered wide load, which does apply to plows, except for state dot


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## Hubjeep

EGLC;1242640 said:


> honestly who cares what guys do or don't do with their lights??


It's teh internets, the place to argue, lol.

Just like automatic vs. manual transmission threads, or synthetic vs. dino oil threads. :laughing:


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## FisherVMan

Concerning the latest outta Maine on driving with ambers on . They had a blurt on the news that the "Hampden Police Chief" and that position "up here" could be someone that only went to 3rd grade; and spends 95% of his time at Dunkin Donuts; calls in and wanted the WLBZ TV station to make an announcement that "HE"
[*Lord of the land; and High Sheriff of Nottingham*] had made the observation that "too many" plow truck in "his area" [thats mostly what you can see from DD's] were driving around from driveway to driveway on the public ways without shutting off their lights ........................... he is upset about this; and has decided it is dangerous for the publics safety![what a crock of you know what] and has commanded his men to start slapping out tickets, from now on, at an accelerate rate!
[He must have absolutely nothing to do if this is a high priority] And further went on to add that *any strobe lights *are ILLEAGE.................... OMG 
The very next morning the WLBZ crew had to retract the strobe light statement and apologized to the public they had broadcast this in the first place??
Now if the Hampden Police Chief is the sorta person to call the local TV station; and have them make that announcement; that they had to retract the next morning . Do you think it might be safe to assume; he is the sorta fella that wants to be the ONLY guy around; with any lights they may attract attention?
I dont really know anything about this; but if I had to guess someone he doesn't like in Hampden [probably either stole his girlfriend; or beat him up in high school] is in the plowing business in Hampden; and has a _nice truck loaded with lights_...................... and likes to run them . The Chief dont like *him*; or his *lights *???? What ya want bet ??????

footnote. just for the record I agree with EGLC!!!!!!!


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## fiveoboy01

YardMedic;1242524 said:


> Anyone who doesn't KNOW the extra length was a huge contributing factor is pretty freakin soft. It's like saying you're not sure smoking caused the cancer. No sh*t sherlock... nothing is 100%, but the preponderance of evidence is enough to suggest with overwhelming certainty.


Yeah I agree with you, but I'd say the LARGEST contributing factor to the accident was that the guy was walking IN THE STREET....

Just sayingThumbs Up


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## fiveoboy01

> You do mean getting everyone to look at you and get them to laugh hysterically at you....


Let people laugh. I couldn't care less



> You are the person in care and control of your vehicle. If you have a problem with stopping and turning, especially in the snow, stop driving now.


You are correct. And every vehicle's handling and stopping ability is diminished in snow but even more so with a bunch of weight hanging on it. While I drive as carefully as possible, I can't prevent the idiot in the car from pulling out in front of me. I CAN, however, try to get them to notice me(or laugh at me, whichever term you like better)...



> So I guess the fully loaded rig coming straight at you that does not have flashing lights on it gets to come even closer to you based on your views?


You're making things up, I didn't say any such thing. But if you want to feel that I said that, go ahead.



> What about the average car driver when you are on a narrow road, now he is even closer and you want to blind him?


Blind him? With a single LED minibar on my roof? LOL. And if you think my plow lights, which couldn't blind a deer, would blind a driver, LOL even harder.



> Does your plow stick out more than your mirrors do? If so you are more than likely in contravention of the motor vehicle act and in the event of a collision would be found liable. No amount of flashing lights is going to help you there bud.


Thanks for stating the obvious.



> Are you insured so that when the day comes that you hit someone (snipped moronic comment) you are able to keep working or are you ready to pay the man for the rest of your life?


I carry more than enough liability insurance to deal with an accident.


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## Sno What

and now for something complete different...Plow Guy Boogaloo...


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## mike45

they think they look cool


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## dave_dj1

why have them on your truck if your not going to use them?
I like the idea that people can see me from a long ways off. After all, they are called warning lights! 
I would much rather see warning lights when a truck is backing out of a driveway than not see warning lights. 
Plus they look cool 
One thing I like about my edge is I can run just the rear strobes, it cut's down on the flashback.

Speaking of lights...I just swapped a couple of lenses this afternoon, I installed red lenses where the REAR flashing halogens are, I had all amber before. What do you think of having red flashers as opposed to amber on the rear?


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## kurtandshan

Not sure your state but here in Michigan flashing red will get you pulled over in a heartbeat. Reds are for police(w/blue) fire and ambulance. In case you are wondering ...i would be one of the ones pulling you over. Lol


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## Fire_n_Ice

I have to laugh, because this topic/argument seems to come up every year around this time. Everyone must be getting excited about the beginning of snow plowing! 

To answer the original intent of this thread, I am not sure what the need for excessive lights in the front is. I focused all of my light installs on the side and back of the truck. It seems to me that not only do the headlights draw attention to the truck, but I as the driver can see what is in front of me. I do have an amber Vertex in each front signal, but that's it...and I rarely run them. But to each their own! I am sure there are some out there that would say my setup is over kill? I have the front LAWs, 2 amber Whelen Ions on each by the running board and 4 LAWs in the rear. It seems to work for me....whatever works for other people, that's all they should worry about. I'm not gonna lie, I'm a fan of the "landing aircraft" look. But, on the same token, I don't think they should be run while in public roads....

Just my $.02


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## dfd9

fiveoboy01;1240950 said:


> How well do you think a 1 ton stops/turns with a plow hanging off the front and a full v-box in the rear? Especially in snow...


So why don't semis have warning lights that they leave on from Nov 1 to Apr 15?

You'd think trains would have all kinds of flashing lights on the front, those things can't steer at all and are _really_ heavy.

Warning lights are to warn others of abnormal maneuvers-stopping abruptly, turning around where most folks wouldn't, backing suddenly, going the wrong way in or out of a driveway and the like. They are NOT for normal driving up the road. Because when it comes down to it, every vehicle's stopping distance and turning ability is affected, so all vehicles should be running with warning lights. Or at minimum their hazards whenever it is snowing.


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## Fire_n_Ice

dfd9;1307343 said:


> So why don't semis have warning lights that they leave on from Nov 1 to Apr 15?
> 
> You'd think trains would have all kinds of flashing lights on the front, those things can't steer at all and are _really_ heavy.
> 
> Warning lights are to warn others of abnormal maneuvers-stopping abruptly, turning around where most folks wouldn't, backing suddenly, going the wrong way in or out of a driveway and the like. They are NOT for normal driving up the road. Because when it comes down to it, every vehicle's stopping distance and turning ability is affected, so all vehicles should be running with warning lights. Or at minimum their hazards whenever it is snowing.


Hmmmm... That a good way to look at it. Best argument I've heard yet...


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## dave_dj1

I will look into whether or not I can have rear facing wig-wags on the bar or not, I don't see them as any different than your rear tail lights, third brake light etc. 

kurtandshan, stop being a hardazz on us working people! LOL 

ps, you did read (REAR) correct?


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## maelawncare

dfd9;1307343 said:


> So why don't semis have warning lights that they leave on from Nov 1 to Apr 15?
> 
> You'd think trains would have all kinds of flashing lights on the front, those things can't steer at all and are _really_ heavy.
> 
> Warning lights are to warn others of abnormal maneuvers-stopping abruptly, turning around where most folks wouldn't, backing suddenly, going the wrong way in or out of a driveway and the like. They are NOT for normal driving up the road. Because when it comes down to it, every vehicle's stopping distance and turning ability is affected, so all vehicles should be running with warning lights. Or at minimum their hazards whenever it is snowing.


If a semi is over 10' they do have to have warning lights. A lot of us plow guys have large blades on them! And when it is snowing out or even after it gets done snowing it can be hard to see a large plow on the front of a truck. People are dumb, they hit curbs all the time even though they can see them but curbs dont flash like our trucks do.

I have strobes in my bumper for rear and side, in my grill, and on my roof. While on site i have all of them on. While roading i only have my roof light on. There is no reason to have ALL the strobes on while roading between sites. There is a very valid reason to have some strobes on though, it makes people see you. Why do you think you see the DOTs with their strobes on even when their not plowing. They are large and people need to pay more attention around them. Same goes for us.


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## kurtandshan

Dave, i didnt say I would write ya, just said I'd pull you over. Only if you are 'hardazz' to me will determine if you get a ticket or not Rear/front doesn't matter still flashing red.


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## dfd9

maelawncare;1307586 said:


> If a semi is over 10' they do have to have warning lights. A lot of us plow guys have large blades on them! And when it is snowing out or even after it gets done snowing it can be hard to see a large plow on the front of a truck. People are dumb, they hit curbs all the time even though they can see them but curbs dont flash like our trucks do.
> 
> I have strobes in my bumper for rear and side, in my grill, and on my roof. While on site i have all of them on. While roading i only have my roof light on. There is no reason to have ALL the strobes on while roading between sites. There is a very valid reason to have some strobes on though, it makes people see you. Why do you think you see the DOTs with their strobes on even when their not plowing. They are large and people need to pay more attention around them. Same goes for us.


And are you aware of what is involved in wide load permits? Most do not allow travel after sunset. Depending on width, a chase vehicle is required. Flags at the outer end of the "protrusion" are also required.

So you are breaking the laws? Have you checked your state laws regarding wide load and what is allowed and what isn't? Are you permitted for them? Or just because you have all these cool blinky lights you think you can do whatever?

Why do cops, ambulances and fire trucks only use lights and sirens when responding to a call? Why don't they just use them all the time?

Funny, I have never been hit by another vehicle during the winter, while plowing or driving up the road and I have never used my blinky lights (other than a handful of times forgetting to shut them off). In trucks, with over 26 years of plowing. None of my trucks or employees have ever been hit because of limited visibility or because of the plow hanging off. Any time an accident has occurred it has always, without fail, been in a parking lot or drive because someone pulled in behind me\them or lack of care on my\their part.

So, lets do a quick poll. How many plowers here have been hit by other drivers while driving up the road? With or without their blinky lights? Maybe we could count years out on the road and employees we have that have had this happen as well.

Regarding the DOT, your argument falls flat. If that's the case, then every single semi should have strobes flashing all the time. Ready mix trucks, dump trucks, buses, etc, because they are all bigger than DOT trucks. It is because of the possibility of abnormal maneuvers that causes them to have their lights on more often than not. Same for postal vehicles.

You're just trying excuse the inexcusable. I would hazard a guess that in most states it is illegal to use your blinky lights unless actually engaged in the activity of snow removal.


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## kurtandshan

Just another .02: In Michigan, the 'blinky' (I love that) light requirement/exception states "...while ACTIVELY engaged in snow removal." Travelling to and from is clearly not ACTIVELY engaged in snow removal


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## kurtandshan

Having a blinky light does not absolve you of being over width, in fact, if I were an attorney For the person involved in accident with you (no matter who's fault)I would argue that you clearly KNEW you over width because you say you had your blinky light on to warn everybody you were. You were clearly violating the law, knew you were , chose to do it anyway, therefore you were illegally operating and thus give up your right of way and any claim. In fact, had you not been operating illegally this accident wouldnt have happened thus YOU OWE my client damages!


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## dfd9

kurtandshan;1307613 said:


> Having a blinky light does not absolve you of being over width, in fact, if I were an attorney For the person involved in accident with you (no matter who's fault)I would argue that you clearly KNEW you over width because you say you had your blinky light on to warn everybody you were. You were clearly violating the law, knew you were , chose to do it anyway, therefore you were illegally operating and thus give up your right of way and any claim. In fact, had you not been operating illegally this accident wouldnt have happened thus YOU OWE my client damages!


See, this is more common sense that would be termed by some here on PS as nitwittery.

Mae, here's some interesting reading for you. You may want to check into it if you haven't already.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C300-399/3040000170.HTM

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C300-399/3040000200.HTM

http://www.modot.org/mcs_old/documents/OandOPermitRegs.pdf

But I'm sure you've been following the law in MO and getting permits for everything that is over 102" wide (not 10' as you state).

I really like this gem from pg 22:

(B) Travel is limited to one-half (1/2) hour before sunrise to
one-half (1/2) hour after sunset, except as permitted in subsection
(9)(E) of this rule and sections (7), (11), (12), (13), (14) and (15).
No movement is allowed when road conditions are hazardous, such
as snow and ice covered or when hazardous cross winds affect the
movement or when weather conditions are such to limit the visibility
to less than five hundred feet (500');
(C) No movement is allowed during specified holiday periods
listed in paragraph (1)(I)1.;

I may have missed it because I didn't read it all, but a quick search did not show any exceptions for snow removal equipment as some states have.


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## dfd9

fiveoboy01;1240950 said:


> It's not about that, it's about getting the attention of cars even while on the road.
> 
> How well do you think a 1 ton stops/turns with a plow hanging off the front and a full v-box in the rear? Especially in snow...
> 
> The main reason I leave them on while driving... Oncoming plow truck drivers know there is another plow truck coming. We can give each other more space that way, as we take up a wider swath of roadway with the plow on the front. I'd rather not tag plows with some guy going the other way....
> 
> I can live with your "not grown up" label, while continuing to drive with the warning lights on.


You need to get into milk delivery.

(d) Ten feet 6 inches for snowplows attached to motor vehicles
normally used for the transportation of milk.

From https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/348.pdf pg 2.


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## pooleo8

somtimes I forget the light atop is even on! at the crack of dawn. Sometimes I run the light in bad blizzards, same as how people will run their hazards, it helps with visability. On the side of the road, it gets turned on. Anything that will catch peoples attention is peace of mind I wont get run the Fukc over on the hwy!!!

But honestly, who fukcing cares if you run your lights or not on the road.


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## dfd9

pooleo8;1307631 said:


> somtimes I forget the light atop is even on! at the crack of dawn. Sometimes I run the light in bad blizzards, same as how people will run their hazards, it helps with visability. On the side of the road, it gets turned on. Anything that will catch peoples attention is peace of mind I wont get run the Fukc over on the hwy!!!
> 
> But honestly, who fukcing cares if you run your lights or not on the road.


Nice language, really helps make your point. Not sure which one, but it does.

To answer your question, I will ask a question. How about fire, police and ambo's just start using their _warning_ lights whenever they are on the road? Or, why doesn't every motorist out there start using their hazards as soon as they turn on the road?

After all, this is all about visibility and safety, so if that's what we're after, why don't we outfit every vehicle on the road with blinky lights, because we want everyone to see everyone.

Just think of the lives that could be saved!


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## Fire_n_Ice

dfd9;1307637 said:


> Nice language, really helps make your point. Not sure which one, but it does.
> 
> To answer your question, I will ask a question. How about fire, police and ambo's just start using their _warning_ lights whenever they are on the road? Or, why doesn't every motorist out there start using their hazards as soon as they turn on the road?
> 
> After all, this is all about visibility and safety, so if that's what we're after, why don't we outfit every vehicle on the road with blinky lights, because we want everyone to see everyone.
> 
> Just think of the lives that could be saved!


Agreed! There has to come a point at which too much is a bad thing. If these lights are just run all the time, they lose their meaning. Just like if fire trucks, ambulances or police cars where to run them all the time, they would no longer draw attention and cause people to use caution around them. The key has to be to use your brain when they are turned on. We, as plow drivers, dont want to "numb" the public to the meaning of our lights!


----------



## kurtandshan

One more thing from Johnny Law here: Regarding the "How well do you think a One ton stops etc" statement. As a driver you are required to be able to stop in an "assured clear distance" no matter if you are driving a Yugo or a semi. You as the driver must operate your vehicle at a safe and prudent speed to allow it to safely stop and maneuver. I am sure most states have a citation that (written at many an accident scene) is worded something like this "Too fast for conditions"


----------



## dfd9

kurtandshan;1307748 said:


> One more thing from Johnny Law here: Regarding the "How well do you think a One ton stops etc" statement. As a driver you are required to be able to stop in an "assured clear distance" no matter if you are driving a Yugo or a semi. You as the driver must operate your vehicle at a safe and prudent speed to allow it to safely stop and maneuver. I am sure most states have a citation that (written at many an accident scene) is worded something like this "Too fast for conditions"


But, but, but that blinky light gives me the right to not be able to stop or maneuver my truck in a safe distance. It was John Q Public's fault if I can't use my blinky lights.


----------



## kurtandshan

Rrriight.....


----------



## maelawncare

dfd9;1307599 said:


> And are you aware of what is involved in wide load permits? Most do not allow travel after sunset. Depending on width, a chase vehicle is required. Flags at the outer end of the "protrusion" are also required.
> 
> So you are breaking the laws? Have you checked your state laws regarding wide load and what is allowed and what isn't? Are you permitted for them? Or just because you have all these cool blinky lights you think you can do whatever?
> 
> Why do cops, ambulances and fire trucks only use lights and sirens when responding to a call? Why don't they just use them all the time?
> 
> Funny, I have never been hit by another vehicle during the winter, while plowing or driving up the road and I have never used my blinky lights (other than a handful of times forgetting to shut them off). In trucks, with over 26 years of plowing. None of my trucks or employees have ever been hit because of limited visibility or because of the plow hanging off. Any time an accident has occurred it has always, without fail, been in a parking lot or drive because someone pulled in behind me\them or lack of care on my\their part.
> 
> So, lets do a quick poll. How many plowers here have been hit by other drivers while driving up the road? With or without their blinky lights? Maybe we could count years out on the road and employees we have that have had this happen as well.
> 
> Regarding the DOT, your argument falls flat. If that's the case, then every single semi should have strobes flashing all the time. Ready mix trucks, dump trucks, buses, etc, because they are all bigger than DOT trucks. It is because of the possibility of abnormal maneuvers that causes them to have their lights on more often than not. Same for postal vehicles.
> 
> You're just trying excuse the inexcusable. I would hazard a guess that in most states it is illegal to use your blinky lights unless actually engaged in the activity of snow removal.


None, and again none of your said vehicles above have a 1,000lb+ plow hanging 5' off the front of them! A lot of times I even run my roof strobe with its 50 degrees and sunny while I have the plow on front. Around here firetrucks always have a rear strobe running when they drive around town, not on call. It is a big truck that makes constant stops. Our garbage trucks also run their strobes all day long as well. Its just about warning people that you are NOT a normal vehicle and they need to pay more attention to you. A lot of people do not pay attention to things around while driving, and a plow can blend into the haze. And to answer a question, yes i have had a car scrape against my plow while sitting at a stop light. He drove past me in the turn and said he never saw the plow hanging off the front. No major damage to either but still worth noting.

Every state has different rules and you must abide by the state rules, but if you are afraid of the attention then just dont use them blinky lights.:salute:


----------



## dfd9

maelawncare;1308001 said:


> None, and again none of your said vehicles above have a 1,000lb+ plow hanging 5' off the front of them!
> 
> 5' off the front? Maybe the axle, but not the front of the truck.
> 
> A lot of times I even run my roof strobe with its 50 degrees and sunny while I have the plow on front.
> 
> In the fire service there's a term for guys like you.
> 
> Around here firetrucks always have a rear strobe running when they drive around town, not on call.
> 
> I'm guessing they're flushing hydrants, so it is to warn of sudden stops. They do by me too, but not every light on the truck.
> 
> It is a big truck that makes constant stops. Our garbage trucks also run their strobes all day long as well.
> 
> And for the most part, these guys are as ignorant of the laws as you are. They do by me too, and most of them have their flashers alternating from side to side, which is illegal. Never found a law that even says it is legal for these guys to have them on or stop in the middle of the road for pickups, it may be there, but I've never seen it.
> 
> Its just about warning people that you are NOT a normal vehicle and they need to pay more attention to you.
> 
> But you are a normal vehicle, because it is winter and trucks have plows on them. And spreaders. Although only certain types have them on in 50* weather. You are the one who has to have more care, not them.
> 
> A lot of people do not pay attention to things around while driving, and a plow can blend into the haze. And to answer a question, yes i have had a car scrape against my plow while sitting at a stop light. He drove past me in the turn and said he never saw the plow hanging off the front. No major damage to either but still worth noting.
> 
> So this happened while you were sitting still, not driving up the road which is when you said the problems occur. There's one, anybody else?
> 
> Every state has different rules and you must abide by the state rules, but if you are afraid of the attention then just dont use them blinky lights.:salute:


I posted your state's rules, do you abide by them? Do you have oversize permits when running your plows?


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## gary snow

So, lets do a quick poll. How many plowers here have been hit by other drivers while driving up the road? With or without their blinky lights? Maybe we could count years out on the road and employees we have that have had this happen as well. 
,,,,,,,,,,,I have been plowing since 1977,I only turn on blue light(Snow removal Canada) when plowing or in a BLIZZARD!!!!When in parking lot early,I shut off all lights and only use heater at a low setting,I save my batteries as much as possible,I really like the strobe lights in the signal lights,I do not have as cost is high,after this many years of plowing,accidents only occur when I am not paying attention ,because I am responsible for all truck actions of stopping in a safe manner,driving and anything else while behind the wheel,Its all my responsibility,,,,and if ya want lots 'o lights!!!!have at er!!!!!Personally after this many years ,,,,SAFETY FIRST,,,,,nothing else matters!!!!!I have only had maybe five occurance's,most time ,me not paying attention,one time a overzealous driver,instead of giving me leeway decided to speed up and I nailed him in the back panel of car,he almost made it!!!!My fault,,,,tired,not paying attention ,but never been hit on the road!!!I too laff at the wanna be's fer thier lights on!!!!!We are only allowed to use Blue light when plowing,not in transit,,,and that is becoming questionable here also!!!Remember boys/old women,,,,,u can't comprimise safety,,,,,,lol, and u can't help STOOPID!!!remember safety first ,,,,and HAVE FUN!!!!!!,,gs


----------



## maelawncare

dfd9;1308008 said:


> 5' off the front? Maybe the axle, but not the front of the truck.
> 
> Want me to go measure my blizzard?
> 
> I'm guessing they're flushing hydrants, so it is to warn of sudden stops. They do by me too, but not every light on the truck.
> 
> As i said, it is only my roof light that stays on while roading, not the other 6. And they do not have all their lights on either, thats not what i said. Just a yellow flasher on the back.
> 
> And for the most part, these guys are as ignorant of the laws as you are. They do by me too, and most of them have their flashers alternating from side to side, which is illegal. Never found a law that even says it is legal for these guys to have them on or stop in the middle of the road for pickups, it may be there, but I've never seen it.
> 
> I have never seen it either. They do it to warn people about them. Dont know why its ignorant.
> 
> 
> But you are a normal vehicle, because it is winter and trucks have plows on them. And spreaders. Although only certain types have them on in 50* weather. You are the one who has to have more care, not them.
> 
> A plow truck is not a normal vehicle.
> 
> So this happened while you were sitting still, not driving up the road which is when you said the problems occur. There's one, anybody else?
> 
> While stopped waiting for a light to turn green yes. I was still on the road.


. The use of amber lights on vehicles is governed by the following.

(1) A vehicle engaged in highway maintenance or in emergency rescue operations by civil defense and public safety agencies and a public utility emergency service vehicle may be equipped with auxiliary lights that emit an amber light.

(2) A wrecker must be equipped with a flashing light mounted on top of the vehicle in such a manner as to emit an amber light over a 360` angle. The light must be in use on a public way or a place where public traffic may reasonably be anticipated when servicing, freeing, loading, unloading or towing a vehicle.

(3) A vehicle engaged in snow removal or sanding operations on a public way must be equipped with and display an auxiliary light that provides visible light coverage over a 360` range. The light must emit an amber beam of light and be equipped with a blinking or strobe light function and have sufficient intensity to be visible at 500 feet in normal daylight. When the left wing of a plow is in operation and extends over the center of the road, an auxiliary light must show the extreme end of the left wing. That light may be attached to the vehicle so that the beam of light points at the left wing. The light illuminating the left wing may be controlled by a separate switch or by the regular lighting system and must be in operation at all times when the vehicle is used for plowing snow on public ways.

(4) A vehicle equipped and used for plowing snow on other than public ways may be equipped with an auxiliary rotary flashing light that must be mounted on top of the vehicle in such a manner as to emit an amber beam of light over a 360` angle, or an amber strobe, or combination of strobes, that emits at a minimum a beam of 50 candlepower and provides visible light coverage over a 360` range. The light may be in use on a public way only when the vehicle is entering the public way in the course of plowing private driveways and other off-highway locations.


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## basheroffroad

Ok I'm not going to quote it because you all read it already a dozen times... the reason emergency service vehicles (police, fire, and ambulance) don't run their lights all the time is because they are emergency vehicles, when you see those lights you are supposed to react appropriately and move out of the way or give them the right of way! amber however is a cautionary light color meaning you need to notice this vehicle, this could be for any number of reasons maybe frequent stops or slow speed or other situations causing a potential hazard. that being said, you will almost always see flashing amber lights on the back of any fire apparatus because there is always the possibility they may make a sudden maneuver and sadly the general public doesn't understand that your firetruck, plow truck, garbage truck, tow truck, or any other non standard vehicle doesn't handle or stop as well as their rice burner, granny car, or minivan and they will inevitably pull out ten feet in front of your plow while you have 1500 pounds of salt in the back and were traveling at the speed limit of 45 you hit the brakes even on dry pavement and granny in the oldsmobile is still gonna get a ride in an ambulance all because "I didn't see him coming!" I have personally seen it too many times in my few years in the fire service and amazingly its rarely the guy with warning lights on that is involved in this it's usually the jackass that was laughing at the guy with his lights on! 

all that said I usually run the two end lights on my federal signal vision while moving on the road in all but the clearest of conditions and the full bar plus leds on the back of the truck, front quarter panels, and grill while actively plowing I also have reflective striping on the ends of the blade facing the sides and the front just to make sure it can't be missed! (oh and before you start the wide load B.S. its only a 7' 6" curtis w/out wings)


----------



## chrisf250

I have been hit. I was going from one site to the next stoped to make a left hand turn and got rear ended on a state road. It was daylight/ dawn decent visibility though it was still snowling lightly, I dont know if blinky lights would have done anything or not. I signaled well before with my blinker and all my brake lights were working. I think the point of this argument is not about lights but how many or the amount of lights in the front. The argument seems to be getting to the point of no lights or tons of lights. Lights in the front (grille, visor, dash) are DUMB and in my opinion dangerous. Its putting light out at a low enough level to be in the eyes of oncoming drivers. A light bar on top or a couple strobes on the rear is fine. As far as driving to and from sites and should they be left on is up to personal preference and opinion. I think it depends on local laws as well as visibility conditions at the current time.


----------



## kurtandshan

chrisf250;1312801 said:


> I have been hit. I was going from one site to the next stoped to make a left hand turn and got rear ended on a state road. It was daylight/ dawn decent visibility though it was still snowling lightly, I dont know if blinky lights would have done anything or not. I signaled well before with my blinker and all my brake lights were working. I think the point of this argument is not about lights but how many or the amount of lights in the front. The argument seems to be getting to the point of no lights or tons of lights. Lights in the front (grille, visor, dash) are DUMB and in my opinion dangerous. Its putting light out at a low enough level to be in the eyes of oncoming drivers. A light bar on top or a couple strobes on the rear is fine. As far as driving to and from sites and should they be left on is up to personal preference and opinion. I think it depends on local laws as well as visibility conditions at the current time.


Actually, it should be left up to what is legal...i believe several state laws have been quoted here. Simple answer: check YOUR state's laws firsf then decide.


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## chrisf250

read last sentence...

Anyway heres MA law as best as I could find it


22.06: Mounting and Display of Amber and Other Colored Lights 
(1) No person shall mount or display a flashing, rotating or oscillating amber light on a motor vehicle 
operated on the way, except as provided in 540 CMR 22.06. 
(2) Flashing, rotating or oscillating amber light(s) may be mounted and displayed on: 
(a) motor vehicles used for emergency or service purposes operated by members or employees 
of an auxiliary police force, charitable organizations, private burglar alarm companies, private 
detective and private security agencies, agencies of the Commonwealth or its politicalsubdivisions, 
persons and garages providing motorists assistance services or towing services, public and private 
utility companies for emergency or service purposes, persons and companies that are transporting 
human blood or organs for emergency purposes, oxygen, explosives or other hazardous materials; 
(b) motor vehicles that have the owner's name displayed so as to be plainly visible from each side 
or from the front and rear of the motor vehicle, and which are actually engaged in the performance 
of a service, public or private, where the display of such lights would be in the best interest of 
public safety; and 
(c) such other motor vehicles as authorized by written permit of the Registrar, which shall be 
carried by the operator upon his or her person or in the vehicle in some easily accessible place. 
No person shall mount or display any flashing, rotating or oscillating light of any color other than 
amber, except blue and red lights as provided in M.G.L. c. 90, § 7E, unless by written permit of the 
Registrar, which shall be carried by the operator upon his or her person or in the vehicle, in some easily 
accessible place. 

Il decide and say may dosn't mean have to


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## D&FServices

Need all the lights to give those who don't have them something to be jealous about or something to complain about! Just had to put that out there. I don't have a huge array of lights but I don't care if people have their truck lit up like a football field so I guess I'll stay outta this one since I don't have a dog in this hunt.


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## snoway63

i rum my lights only when plowing, but i have had many plow trucks come flying out of parking lots pushing snow accross the highway, that think thier flashing light makes it legall to do so into traffic,almost tboned one idiot and he gives me the bird, next time I will hit him, maybe he needs an education in driving and plowing ettiqute rhis is why we arent taken seriously


----------



## dfd9

basheroffroad;1312729 said:


> Ok I'm not going to quote it because you all read it already a dozen times... the reason emergency service vehicles (police, fire, and ambulance) don't run their lights all the time is because they are emergency vehicles, when you see those lights you are supposed to react appropriately and move out of the way or give them the right of way! amber however is a cautionary light color meaning you need to notice this vehicle, this could be for any number of reasons maybe frequent stops or slow speed or other situations causing a potential hazard. that being said, *you will almost always see flashing amber lights on the back of any fire apparatus because there is always the possibility they may make a sudden maneuver* and sadly the general public doesn't understand that your firetruck, plow truck, garbage truck, tow truck, or any other non standard vehicle doesn't handle or stop as well as their rice burner, granny car, or minivan and they will inevitably pull out ten feet in front of your plow while you have 1500 pounds of salt in the back and were traveling at the speed limit of 45 you hit the brakes even on dry pavement and granny in the oldsmobile is still gonna get a ride in an ambulance all because "I didn't see him coming!" I have personally seen it too many times in my few years in the fire service and amazingly its rarely the guy with warning lights on that is involved in this it's usually the jackass that was laughing at the guy with his lights on!
> 
> all that said I usually run the two end lights on my federal signal vision while moving on the road in all but the clearest of conditions and the full bar plus leds on the back of the truck, front quarter panels, and grill while actively plowing I also have reflective striping on the ends of the blade facing the sides and the front just to make sure it can't be missed! (oh and before you start the wide load B.S. its only a 7' 6" curtis w/out wings)


Really? You sure? I haven't seen any with always on amber lights in the rear. It isn't even part of NFPA whatever. There has to be amber on the back, but not on all the time.


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## Maleko

WHO CARES???? Geez if i want or some other dude wants to run 20 lights , WHO CARES.

Its is my truck i can do what i want.These to many light threads are amazing..

yes im one of those guys with lights all over my truck. They are ALL on when im plowing .Only the mini light bar on the roof stays on when traveling from lot to lot etc..

I have yet to be in an accident plowing, ( knock on wood ) . I have had people say i would never have seen you backing up without those flashing lights. YES... When i backing up along buildings etc. there is always some fool driving through the lot. Now if i had no lights and just relied on my FACTORY light that are probably covered in snow they never would have seen me..
If i want to flash my lights so what....
I have NEVER seen or heard of anyone in my area getting a ticket for driving on the road with the AMBER lights on..I have had a cop call my truck a UFO, laughing saying he wished his patrol car was as bright as mine. 

I bet you were a Hall monitor in school , right?
Do you get mad when someone has nicer wheels or a paint job than your vehicle too..?
Are we going to have this argument every season?
Geez , Im thinking of adding more lights, Yup more because i like it,


----------



## snoway63

I have seen and heard of people hitting tow trucks and other vehicles with to many flashing lights because it distracted them, remember in this day and age people are distracted all the time with cell phones and other thing and all the lights in the world would'nt help them from not hitting you. It could also benifit you if you have at least one light if someone hits you it could help as far as insurance claim at least you had a visible warning light on but to many could bite you in the butt if a good lawyer went after you if you got hit


----------



## dfd9

snoway63;1314312 said:


> I have seen and heard of people hitting tow trucks and other vehicles with to many flashing lights because it distracted them, remember in this day and age people are distracted all the time with cell phones and other thing and all the lights in the world would'nt help them from not hitting you. It could also benifit you if you have at least one light if someone hits you it could help as far as insurance claim at least you had a visible warning light on but to many could bite you in the butt if a good lawyer went after you if you got hit


There have been studies performed by our "esteemed" gubmint that have shown exactly that. Too many lights confuses people and causes them to crash. They have even shown that less FPM are better\more visible than sending people into seizures.

But whatever floats your boat Maleko, sure wouldn't want to suggest or point out that in some states, it's against the law as well as trying to raise the level of professionalism in this industry.


----------



## Maleko

Its not against the law here. It may be in some areas, i dont know.
As far as being professional , Well , I dont see how having a SAFETY light on is unprofessional .
I would say Its more unprofessional when plow guys plow out into the street and leave a mess everywhere. Or the guy thats backing out into the road with NO backup lights and NO safety light at all while the snow banks are 5 feet tall and the trees and bushes are covered with snow and no one can see the plow truck. because he doesnt have any safety lights. Now i think that is way more dangerous than having to many lights. But thats just me..

Im thankful when its 3 in the morning and ive been up for 20 + hours after a big storm driving down the street ,etc And i can see flashing lights in someones driveway. My eyes instantly attract to that and it gets my attention to slow and watch for vehicles that may be backing in the road or moving snow etc..


----------



## Mstrfxit12

I weighed in on this a year ago and I'd like to add to it. You guys that run your lights all the time IMO are self defeating. When people run a warning light without a true need for warning the public, they are desensitizing people to the lights and danger they may be warning people of. Its the whole "cry wolf" thing. Driving down the road in a storm or clear weather is not a dangerous situation. Hell, the NFPA did studies years ago that proved the "moth to the flame" issue with people and flashing lights. You might just be helping someone crash into you.
And the comment I love the most reading through this "people out there are dumb". Yeah well, it takes people to drive plow trucks too.


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## BossPlow2010

procut1;1240127 said:


> Because to them it looks cool and they like it. And a snowstorm is one of the few times a year they can drive around with it all blazing without getting stopped.


Or maybe, just maybe they are POC FF and that is their POV for responding.
Just a thought.


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## Maleko

I agree that you shouldnt run all your light all the time.. For me i only have my mini light bar on when going from lot to lot.. When i get to my location i turn them all on..
I do lots that have alot of traffic in them.


----------



## miked9372

why are you guys so offtopic last time i check the post said


> I see many plow vehicles that are quite light heavy in the front (headlight, grille strobes, etc). Do you try to pull people over?? Rear and side is my priority for backing out into a road and reducing the chance of being rear-ended when pulled over on the side of the road.
> IMO, the plow headlights do a fine job at making the front of the vehicle visible. I only have a small amber windshield LED facing forward.
> Reply With Quote


not do you think lights should be allowed debate


----------



## JDiepstra

Lots of lights... probably compensating for something.


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## dfd9

Mstrfxit12;1314668 said:


> I weighed in on this a year ago and I'd like to add to it. You guys that run your lights all the time IMO are self defeating. When people run a warning light without a true need for warning the public, they are desensitizing people to the lights and danger they may be warning people of. Its the whole "cry wolf" thing. Driving down the road in a storm or clear weather is not a dangerous situation. Hell, the NFPA did studies years ago that proved the "moth to the flame" issue with people and flashing lights. You might just be helping someone crash into you.
> And the comment I love the most reading through this "people out there are dumb". Yeah well, it takes people to drive plow trucks too.


OH sure, blah, blah, blah.

What do you know?

What difference does it make to you?

(Sarcasm, I have to agree)



JDiepstra;1314733 said:


> Lots of lights... probably compensating for something.


I gotta agree with this statement as well.


----------



## Sno What

If you saw my truck, the question would be "Why so many lights on the back?" (haha.)


----------



## ChiTahoe

Around here, people can't drive. They pull out in front of you, cut you off. At least the flashing lights give them something to look at and hopefully notice you. 
I like them too =) Currently have 4 corner amber led stobes installed. =)
I use them when plowing or just transporting the plow around for demonstrations and marketing. Gets the name recognized.


----------



## NWanner

This reminds me too much of the "loud pipes on motorcycles" debate. Some claim they are obnoxious and others claim that they've saved their lives. If it's in a lot or you're doing a driveway then I couldn't care less if you could land airplanes or not. I'm sensitive to lights, especially at night, and if I'm driving down the road next to you and you're lit up like a christmas tree, chances are the only thing I can see is your blinding flashing lights and not the road that I need to. IMHO having your 'blinky lights' on when you're not actively plowing is extremely distracting to other drivers and more likely to cause an accident than to prevent one. But hey, as long as you can see who cares about anyone else, right?


----------



## H&HPropertyMait

fiveoboy01;1240950 said:


> It's not about that, it's about getting the attention of cars even while on the road.
> 
> How well do you think a 1 ton stops/turns with a plow hanging off the front and a full v-box in the rear? Especially in snow...
> 
> The main reason I leave them on while driving... Oncoming plow truck drivers know there is another plow truck coming. We can give each other more space that way, as we take up a wider swath of roadway with the plow on the front. I'd rather not tag plows with some guy going the other way....
> 
> I can live with your "not grown up" label, while continuing to drive with the warning lights on.


It takes away from the effectiveness of having them though. there is no need to warn people you're driving. When you get to an account on the side of the road, your lights have been on, they mean nothing to people that have already seen them. 
If you know how to drive you dont need to warn other drivers. flip them on when you get there, they mean much more. and you dont look dumb.


----------



## dfd9

H&HPropertyMait;1325780 said:


> It takes away from the effectiveness of having them though. there is no need to warn people you're driving. When you get to an account on the side of the road, your lights have been on, they mean nothing to people that have already seen them.
> If you know how to drive you dont need to warn other drivers. flip them on when you get there, they mean much more. and you dont look dumb.


Nice first post.


----------



## H&HPropertyMait

dfd9;1326251 said:


> Nice first post.


Haha thanks, this is my third acct new company new acct. I've been here a few years.


----------



## H&HPropertyMait

maelawncare;1308001 said:


> None, and again none of your said vehicles above have a 1,000lb+ plow hanging 5' off the front of them! A lot of times I even run my roof strobe with its 50 degrees and sunny while I have the plow on front. Around here firetrucks always have a rear strobe running when they drive around town, not on call. It is a big truck that makes constant stops. Our garbage trucks also run their strobes all day long as well. Its just about warning people that you are NOT a normal vehicle and they need to pay more attention to you. A lot of people do not pay attention to things around while driving, and a plow can blend into the haze. And to answer a question, yes i have had a car scrape against my plow while sitting at a stop light. He drove past me in the turn and said he never saw the plow hanging off the front. No major damage to either but still worth noting.
> 
> Every state has different rules and you must abide by the state rules, but if you are afraid of the attention then just dont use them blinky lights.:salute:


thats because the arrow stick/traffic advisor is wired to be on when the engine and or pto is running on fire trucks. not trying to argue with you, just sayin!


----------



## Hubjeep

Sno What;1315071 said:


> If you saw my truck, the question would be "Why so many lights on the back?" (haha.)


I like more lights in the BACK (or sides) since I back out of driveways into the road frequently and the tail lights are a lot less bright than my headlights.

My purpose of starting this thread was to ask why some people make their plow vehicles light heavy in the FRONT when it has bright headlights to begin with.


----------



## USMCMP5811

dave_dj1;1306442 said:


> Speaking of lights...I just swapped a couple of lenses this afternoon, I installed red lenses where the REAR flashing halogens are, I had all amber before. *What do you think of having red flashers as opposed to amber on the rear?*


If you were in MA, I think it would cost you $300 and you having to remove them on the side of the road. payup

MGL Ch. 90 s. 7E

Section 7E. *No motor vehicle operated pursuant to section seven other than fire apparatus, ambulances, school buses, vehicles specified in section seven D used for transporting school children, and vehicles specified in section seven I shall mount or display a flashing, rotating or oscillating red light in any direction*, except as herein provided; provided, however, that nothing in this section shall prohibit an official police vehicle from displaying a flashing, rotating or oscillating red light in the opposite direction in which the vehicle is proceeding or prohibit fire apparatus from displaying a flashing, rotating or oscillating blue light in the opposite direction in which the vehicle is proceeding.

A vehicle owned or operated by a forest warden, deputy forest warden, a chief or deputy chief of a municipal fire department, a chaplain of a municipal fire department, a member of a fire department of a town or a call member of a fire department or a member or a call member of an emergency medical service may have mounted thereon flashing, rotating or oscillating red lights. Such lights shall only be displayed when such owner or operator is proceeding to a fire or in response to an alarm and when the official duty of such owner or operator requires him to proceed to said fire or to respond to said alarm, and at no other time.

*No such red light shall be mounted or displayed on such vehicle until proper application has been made to the registrar by the head of the fire department and a written permit has been issued and delivered to the owner and operator.* In the event that the operator is not the registered owner of the vehicle, no permit shall be issued until said owner forwards to the registrar a written statement certifying that he has knowledge that such red light will be mounted and displayed on said vehicle.

Any person operating a vehicle upon which flashing, rotating or oscillating red lights herein authorized are mounted shall have the permit for said lights upon his person or in the vehicle in some easily accessible place. Upon termination of the duties which warranted the issuance of the permit, the head of the fire department shall immediately notify the registrar who shall forthwith revoke such red light permit. Upon the written request of the chief of police or chief of fire of the town in which such permitted vehicle is registered, the registrar may revoke such permit. The registrar shall revoke such permit for the unauthorized use of such red lights and the owner and operator shall be subject to a fine as hereinafter provided.

Upon revocation, the registrar of motor vehicles shall notify forthwith the owner and operator of the vehicle for which such permit was issued and the head of the police department and fire department of the town in which his original permit was issued.

No motor vehicle or trailer except (i) a vehicle used solely for official business by any police department of the commonwealth or its political subdivisions or by any railroad police department or college or university police department whose officers are appointed as special state police officers by the colonel of state police pursuant to section sixty-three of chapter twenty-two C and subject to such special rules and regulations applicable to such college or university police department as the registrar may prescribe, (ii) a vehicle owned and operated by a police officer of any town or any agency of the commonwealth while on official duty and when authorized by the officer's police chief or agency head and only by authority of a permit issued by the registrar, (iii) a vehicle operated by a duly appointed medical examiner or a physician or surgeon attached to a police department of any city or town only while on official duty and only by authority of a permit issued by the registrar, (iv) a vehicle operated by a police commissioner of a police department of any city only while on official duty and only by authority of a permit issued by the registrar, (v) a vehicle actually being used for the transportation of persons who are under arrest, or in lawful custody under authority of any court, or committed to penal or mental institutions, and only by authority of a permit issued by the registrar, (vi) a vehicle operated by a chaplain of a municipal police department while on official duty and only by authority of a permit issued by the registrar shall mount or display a flashing, rotating or oscillating blue light in any direction. No motor vehicle, as hereinbefore provided, requiring a permit from the registrar, shall mount or display a blue light on such vehicle until proper application has been made to the registrar by the head of the police department and such written permit has been issued and delivered to the owner and operator. Such notice shall include the place of residence and address of the owner and operator of the vehicle for which such permit is issued and the name of the make, vehicle identification number and the registration number of the vehicle for which such permit authorizes the display of blue lights. Any person operating a vehicle upon which blue lights have been authorized to be mounted or displayed, by permit, shall carry such permit for said lights upon his person or in the vehicle in some easily accessible place. Upon termination of the duties of such person which warranted the issuance of the permit, the chief of police shall immediately notify the registrar, who shall forthwith revoke such blue light permit. Upon the written request of the chief of police of the town in which such permitted vehicle is registered the registrar may revoke such permit. The registrar shall revoke such permit for the unauthorized use of such blue lights and the owner and operator shall be subject to a fine as hereinafter provided. Upon revocation, the registrar of motor vehicles shall notify forthwith the owner and operator of the vehicle for which such permit was issued and the head of the police department of the city or town in which such permitted vehicle is registered. Upon receipt of his notice of revocation, such owner and operator shall forthwith deliver such blue light permit to the registrar and he shall not be eligible for reissuance of such permit without consent of the head of the police department of the town in which his original permit was issued. Nothing in this section shall authorize any owner or operator to disregard or violate any statute, ordinance, by-law, rule or regulation regarding motor vehicles or their use on ways of the commonwealth. The registrar may also make such rules and regulations governing or prohibiting the display of such other lights on motor vehicles as he may deem necessary for public safety.

Any person who violates any provision of this section for which a penalty is not otherwise provided shall be subject to a fine of not less than one hundred dollars, nor more than three hundred dollars.

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Section7E


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## harddock

That explains why MA drivers don't use signals they are red in the back and illegal.


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## H&HPropertyMait

Mstrfxit12;1314668 said:


> I weighed in on this a year ago and I'd like to add to it. You guys that run your lights all the time IMO are self defeating. When people run a warning light without a true need for warning the public, they are desensitizing people to the lights and danger they may be warning people of. Its the whole "cry wolf" thing. Driving down the road in a storm or clear weather is not a dangerous situation. Hell, the NFPA did studies years ago that proved the "moth to the flame" issue with people and flashing lights. You might just be helping someone crash into you.
> And the comment I love the most reading through this "people out there are dumb". Yeah well, it takes people to drive plow trucks too.


X2 agreed on this one.


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## NWanner

harddock;1337118 said:


> That explains why MA drivers don't use signals they are red in the back and illegal.


I think you're giving them too much credit :laughing:


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## Ramairfreak98ss

GOOD LED or amber strobes on a lightbar of some sort "usa" ones not china $85 ones, are worth their weight in gold in parking lots plowed in NJ..... i never understood all the white strobes guys want built into the lights like the cops have, they're fairly ineffective for plowing and people don't notice as well, because headlights and reflections are all white anyway

Going from poor/dim amber lights to a good LED lightbar from code 3, Whelen, Shome etc. will be apparent on the first time out plowing.

We have nearly all Whelen stuff, some Liberty bars and Justice full/22" mini bars and they're easily noticeable by traffic.


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## FSLC

I know! People don't seem to understand that as a plow, utility , roadside service or maintinance truck ie any vehicle where you're on a roadside the primary warning area is the back of the vehicle where traffic is closest to the vehicle plus if you're a roadside assistance guy there's a stalled vehicle in front of you anyway. You're not clearing an intersection, pulling over cars or speeding through traffic. Also amber lights deffinately help to identify the vehicle so if you run all white get some amber!


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