# Bid this property



## JT&SONS

I know I didn't get off to the best start with some people in here. I'm really a cool dude if you get to know me. sorry if I pissed anyone off.

I'm looking for what people think it would take time wisely using 3/4 ton with 8.2 V with wings.

Per Push price for reference would be awesome. But not nesecry.

34k 1/2 inch trigger salt on lot only sidewalks in-house

I'm thinking 127.50 per push 
Salt cost 121.38 
For total 248.88

Thanks for your time if you choose to participate.


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## BUFF

If they want you to stack snow in the back lot in the bottom of the pic I think you're light on the plowing piece.
Do you plan to have tiered pricing for higher accumulations, say in 3" increments?


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## JMHConstruction

BUFF said:


> If they want you to stack snow in the back lot in the bottom of the pic I think you're light on the plowing piece.
> Do you plan to have tiered pricing for higher accumulations, say in 3" increments?


Shooooot, just pile the snow right on the sidewalks as you mumble to yourself "not my problem" while driving off.


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## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> If they want you to stack snow in the back lot in the bottom of the pic I think you're light on the plowing piece.
> Do you plan to have tiered pricing for higher accumulations, say in 3" increments?


Yes, 30% increase every 3 inches. I have to meet with Property Manager to go over where snow can be piled.


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## cjames808

Looks like a one hour job, solid price.


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> Yes, 30% increase every 3 inches. I have to meet with Property Manager to go over where snow can be piled.


A 30% bump is giving the work away. You may want to rerun your numbers. I found 60% worked by the time you factor in the added time to stack snow,etc...


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## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> A 30% bump is giving the work away. You may want to rerun your numbers. I found 60% worked by the time you factor in the added time to stack snow,etc...


Ok, I will do that. Thank you for your time.


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## iceyman

Where are you located.. thats wayyyyyyyyyy low for nj but not sure where u are


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## JT&SONS

iceyman said:


> Where are you located.. thats wayyyyyyyyyy low for nj but not sure where u are


IL


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## iceyman

JT&SONS said:


> IL


Yea cant help ya.. that would be a 400 push lot easy here


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## JT&SONS

iceyman said:


> Yea cant help ya.. that would be a 400 push lot easy here


Wow, I'm in the wrong location.


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## Ajlawn1

$400 for 3/4 acre.... Come on.....


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## iceyman

What do you think i get for this lot










1-3" then salt


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## iceyman

Ajlawn1 said:


> $400 for 3/4 acre.... Come on.....


Just by looking at overhead without dimensions but i bet your insurance and other costs are way less than what we pay


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> Wow, I'm in the wrong location.


Have you been to Jersey?


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## Randall Ave

iceyman said:


> Where are you located.. thats wayyyyyyyyyy low for nj but not sure where u are


I was thinking that myself. No one here would touch it for that little bit.


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## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> Have you been to Jersey?


One time when I went to NY for to watch the Yankees play.


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## Randall Ave

Here in Jersey, they make you pay taxes on the taxes you pay.


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## JT&SONS

Randall Ave said:


> Here in Jersey, they make you pay taxes on the taxes you pay.


You agree the price is way low? Would you mind sharing what you would charge and more importantly the average time it would take you based on 1/2 - 2.99in snow.


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## Randall Ave

JT&SONS said:


> You agree the price is way low? Would you mind sharing what you would charge and more importantly the average time it would take you based on 1/2 - 2.99in snow.


I'm probably not your guy. I have mostly done municipal work. I also install and repair plows. But I would be minimum$400.00. I do two commercial tiny lots. Both in 20 minutes. I'm over $100.00 for those. I'm guessing 1 1/2 hours to do yours. These guys would do it faster. Your insurance here will start at $6000.00


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## JT&SONS

Randall Ave said:


> I'm probably not your guy. I have mostly done municipal work. I also install and repair plows. But I would be minimum$400.00. I do two commercial tiny lots. Both in 20 minutes. I'm over $100.00 for those. I'm guessing 1 1/2 hours to do yours. These guys would do it faster. Your insurance here will start at $6000.00


Thank you. I just like to see what others have to say I never take it as the end all be all price or anything. I can say if my insurance was that much I would not plow.


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## Randall Ave

JT&SONS said:


> Thank you. I just like to see what others have to say I never take it as the end all be all price or anything. I can say if my insurance was that much I would not plow.


I have a small truck repair business. No health insurance included. Just to run the place my insurance is over20,000.00


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> Thank you. I just like to see what others have to say I never take it as the end all be all price or anything. I can say if my insurance was that much I would not plow.


3/4 acres <> should take about 20-25minutes for a good operator, a ok operator should be able to plow it in 35-40minutes for storms up to 4-5"
15 minutes to load a TGS and spread. In my area you're total price is on point.


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## JT&SONS

I have one more property I'm working on. Before I say what I'm bidding it would be nice to hear some others prices. My pricing is 1-3.99=? 4-6.99=? 7-9.99=? 10+ Hourly?

This property is 1in trigger 41k sqft this includes drive and road. Snow removal for all drives road and walks. Snow can be piled in the culdesac and the far end gets pushed across the street.


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## iceyman

BUFF said:


> Have you been to Jersey?





iceyman said:


> What do you think i get for this lot
> 
> View attachment 184540
> 
> 
> 1-3" then salt


its all about location and cost of business.. for 1-3 i charge $150 plus $125 per salt app.. hence the reason i said ur price was low but for your area it may be right on target


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## JT&SONS

Anyone got any opinions on the 2nd property I posted bid deadline is tomorrow kinda wanted some opinions before I submit


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## Randall Ave

Just the road, or the road and the drives?


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## JT&SONS

Randall Ave said:


> Just the road, or the road and the drives?


Road Drives & 1000ft of Sidewalks Road & drive is right at an acre.


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> Anyone got any opinions on the 2nd property I posted bid deadline is tomorrow kinda wanted some opinions before I submit


Yeah I have a couple opinions.....
For the 1-3.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 rate I would be $35 per drive (21times) including the small walk to the front door, he road would be $125 and walk next to the walk $65. It should take just under 3hrs with a pickup and 2hrs for the shovel monkey to handle the walks. I'd look into a blower or ATV for the walk along the road. Salt would be extra.

If you're going to do this type of work I would strongly suggest you get a back plow, they're great for doing property's like this and would cut the time in half if not more.

I realize your pretty new to plowing but if you're going to be in the business you're going to need to learn to bid on your own. Learning from mistakes is sometime the best form of education.


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## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> Yeah I have a couple opinions.....
> For the 1-3.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 rate I would be $35 per drive (21times) including the small walk to the front door, he road would be $125 and walk next to the walk $65. It should take just under 3hrs with a pickup and 2hrs for the shovel monkey to handle the walks. I'd look into a blower or ATV for the walk along the road. Salt would be extra.
> 
> If you're going to do this type of work I would strongly suggest you get a back plow, they're great for doing property's like this and would cut the time in half if not more.
> 
> I realize your pretty new to plowing but if you're going to be in the business you're going to need to learn to bid on your own. Learning from mistakes is sometime the best form of education.


I agree I have the numbers I am submitting just wanted to see some other numbers before i posted them I have submitted a few bids without asking any questions these were just requested last week. Thanks for your response


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## EWSplow

JT&SONS said:


> I have one more property I'm working on. Before I say what I'm bidding it would be nice to hear some others prices. My pricing is 1-3.99=? 4-6.99=? 7-9.99=? 10+ Hourly?
> 
> This property is 1in trigger 41k sqft this includes drive and road. Snow removal for all drives road and walks. Snow can be piled in the culdesac and the far end gets pushed across the street.
> View attachment 184552


I had one of those, probably 6 years ago. It sucked You'll spend a whole bunch of time moving snow and probably end up loading and hauling it out. Make sure you specifically write the extra charge for that in your contract. When we did it, I was thinking blower.


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## Randall Ave

If I'm outa line I'm sorry, but with all your bidding on, what equipment do you have for all this work? The road will need to be kept open during a storm. Just saying. There is not much room to put snow there. Make sure you have a clause in there for snow removal.


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## JT&SONS

Randall Ave said:


> If I'm outa line I'm sorry, but with all your bidding on, what equipment do you have for all this work? The road will need to be kept open during a storm. Just saying. There is not much room to put snow there. Make sure you have a clause in there for snow removal.


The property is HOA it is private property. Some of the snow gets pushed across the road its, not in the picture but there is an open area that will hold a lot of snow. When we walked the property it was discussed and noted that in a big event there may be a need to haul snow off. In 17 years they said its happened twice.


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## Randall Ave

Do they own the area you are putting the snow across the street?


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## JT&SONS

Randall Ave said:


> Do they own the area you are putting the snow across the street?


Yes its an empty lot for development


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> The property is HOA it is private property. Some of the snow gets pushed across the road its, not in the picture but there is an open area that will hold a lot of snow. When we walked the property it was discussed and noted that in a big event there may be a need to haul snow off. In 17 years they said its happened twice.


If you've never worked for a HOA you'll find oot every member thinks they're you're boss and you should do what they want..... fun times


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## TKLAWN

You will hate life if you try that with a truck alone!
$1,100 month I would think would be close


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## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> If you've never worked for a HOA you'll find oot every member thinks they're you're boss and you should do what they want..... fun times


20 of the 41 use us for fert and weed control. So I know most of them not all but most. But yes that's been addressed as well. After the snow season, I will be invited to the annual board meeting where those issues will be addressed since so many of the residents have allready left for this year but before the mowing season. Only 12 homes stay occupied over winter the others head to AZ & FL.

I'm trying to work numbers for complete service 28 mows a year bed maintenance and all the weed control in the common areas.

The homes that but up these properties are included in the same HOA but don't receive mowing or plowing. I already mow for 20 or so of them as well and do fert and weed control for half the block. So there are a lot of variables on this one. I have to look at the mowing and fert side as well the potential to pick up more customers for mowing and weed control


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> 20 of the 41 use us for fert and weed control. So I know most of them not all but most. But yes that's been addressed as well. After the snow season, I will be invited to the annual board meeting where those issues will be addressed since so many of the residents have allready left for this year but before the mowing season. Only 12 homes stay occupied over winter the others head to AZ & FL.
> 
> I'm trying to work numbers for complete service 28 mows a year bed maintenance and all the weed control in the common areas.
> 
> The homes that but up these properties are included in the same HOA but don't receive mowing or plowing. I already mow for 20 or so of them as well and do fert and weed control for half the block. So there are a lot of variables on this one. I have to look at the mowing and fert side as well the potential to pick up more customers for mowing and weed control


So where did you come in at for plowing?


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## JT&SONS

Per Push after 1in

1-4=565
4-7=760
7-10=920


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> 1-4=565
> 4-7=760
> 7-10=920


For the time it'll take to do that and those prices you can be make more money doing 1acre ish commercial property's


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## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> For the time it'll take to do that and those prices you can be make more money doing 1acre ish commercial property's


This is where I'm sure I will be in for a learning experience I'm counting on more 1-2 inch storms then big events. Get in and get out we tend to get dry snow here i used leaf blowers to clear drives and walks last year for all but one storm. We had 5 events last year 2in and under and 1 event @ 6in total snowfall for my area was 14.7in. to be honest, the mowing contract is where I will make the money but to get it I have to win both


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> This is where I'm sure I will be in for a learning experience I'm counting on more 1-2 inch storms then big events. Get in and get out we tend to get dry snow here i used leaf blowers to clear drives and walks last year for all but one storm. We had 5 events last year 2in and under and 1 event @ 6in total snowfall for my area was 14.7in. to be honest, the mowing contract is where I will make the money but to get it I have to win both


You can never count on mother nature, she'll do what she wants when she wants. All we can do is adapt to what she throws at us and hope we're prepared or close to being prepared for what she has. Weather patterns constantly change and cycle in and out. 
If you think you're snow is dry you should check out what we get ootwest in the Rockies.
I get what you say about getting summer and winter work at property's. Unlike summer work winter work is sporadic, operating expenses are higher and there's more liability exposure. By underselling your winter services you're limiting your company's growth and exposing yourself to possible losses or a breakeven for the fiscal year due to major repair expense or insurance claims. You should never leave money on the table and always get paid for what the work is worth or what the market will bare.


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## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> You can never count on mother nature, she'll do what she wants when she wants. All we can do is adapt to what she throws at us and hope we're prepared or close to being prepared for what she has. Weather patterns constantly change and cycle in and out.
> If you think you're snow is dry you should check out what we get ootwest in the Rockies.
> I get what you say about getting summer and winter work at property's. Unlike summer work winter work is sporadic, operating expenses are higher and there's more liability exposure. By underselling your winter services you're limiting your company's growth and exposing yourself to possible losses or a breakeven for the fiscal year due to major repair expense or insurance claims. You should never leave money on the table and always get paid for what the work is worth or what the market will bare.


That's solid advice thanks for writing that out.

The problem is I have no choice but to match last years snow contract. I have a copy of the signed contract from last year the only thing i can't match is salt price and they won't be able to either. So would you walk away? I feel like i can still make money on the snow side. Just not a killing on the snow side. Now if we get 4-5 of this 1 to 2 inch snows i will crush it.


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## BossPlow2010

JT&SONS said:


> That's solid advice thanks for writing that out.
> 
> The problem is I have no choice but to match last years snow contract. I have a copy of the signed contract from last year the only thing i can't match is salt price and they won't be able to either. So would you walk away? I feel like i can still make money on the snow side. Just not a killing on the snow side. Now if we get 4-5 of this 1 to 2 inch snows i will crush it.


Your biggest problem, is fear to say "no" you're a different company so you should have a different price than the other company. If your prices higher to make money than so be it.
You're in this business to make
Money not friends. Join Facespace for that

Oh by the way, leaking of a contract, is a form of bid rigging which is bad.


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## Defcon 5

BUFF said:


> You can never count on mother nature, she'll do what she wants when she wants. All we can do is adapt to what she throws at us and hope we're prepared or close to being prepared for what she has. Weather patterns constantly change and cycle in and out.
> If you think you're snow is dry you should check out what we get ootwest in the Rockies.
> I get what you say about getting summer and winter work at property's. Unlike summer work winter work is sporadic, operating expenses are higher and there's more liability exposure. By underselling your winter services you're limiting your company's growth and exposing yourself to possible losses or a breakeven for the fiscal year due to major repair expense or insurance claims. You should never leave money on the table and always get paid for what the work is worth or what the market will bare.


It's to bad Oomkes can't be this helpful without the smarmy attitude.....


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## Mr.Markus

Defcon 5 said:


> It's to bad Oomkes can't be this helpful without the smarmy attitude.....


Dark Kettle should be your screen name...


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## Defcon 5

Mr.Markus said:


> Dark Kettle should be your screen name...


That comment has racial overtones to it


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> That's solid advice thanks for writing that out.
> 
> The problem is I have no choice but to match last years snow contract. I have a copy of the signed contract from last year the only thing i can't match is salt price and they won't be able to either. So would you walk away? I feel like i can still make money on the snow side. Just not a killing on the snow side. Now if we get 4-5 of this 1 to 2 inch snows i will crush it.


 Do you happen to know how well the service was previously? If it was spotty you can sell quality and consistency. Situations / pricing like this drive down the market, while cost go up some people (low ballers) drive price down.

If you had the right equipment like a Tractor Blower set up you can bang the drives out in a couple minutes each but with a pickup and front plow you'll have 4-5times that.

I'm always up for a challenge but won't work for table scraps. It's your business and if you want to race it to the bottom it's your call.


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## BUFF

Defcon 5 said:


> It's to bad Oomkes can't be this helpful without the smarmy attitude.....


He's a troubled little fella at times........ most times that iz...


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## Defcon 5

BUFF said:


> He's a troubled little fella at times........ most times that iz...


Understood


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## Mark Oomkes

JT&SONS said:


> I'm trying to work numbers for complete service 28 mows a year


28 mows a year? In central Illernoiz???

We get 28 a year up here.

Sorry...carry on.


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## Mark Oomkes

JT&SONS said:


> This is where I'm sure I will be in for a learning experience I'm counting on more 1-2 inch storms then big events. Get in and get out we tend to get dry snow here i used leaf blowers to clear drives and walks last year for all but one storm. We had 5 events last year 2in and under and 1 event @ 6in total snowfall for my area was 14.7in.


As Buzz said...you're asking for troubles if you're counting on anything during the winter months. 3 events and 15 inches of snow should tell you that.



JT&SONS said:


> to be honest, the mowing contract is where I will make the money but to get it I have to win both





JT&SONS said:


> I feel like i can still make money on the snow side. Just not a killing on the snow side.


If you can't make money on the snow side, you're doing something wrong and in the wrong bizness. Snow side is where you should make a significant higher profit margin than the green side.



JT&SONS said:


> The problem is I have no choice but to match last years snow contract.


It's America, you most certainly do have a choice.


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## JT&SONS

B


BUFF said:


> Do you happen to know how well the service was previously? If it was spotty you can sell quality and consistency. Situations / pricing like this drive down the market, while cost go up some people (low ballers) drive price down.
> 
> If you had the right equipment like a Tractor Blower set up you can bang the drives out in a couple minutes each but with a pickup and front plow you'll have 4-5times that.
> 
> I'm always up for a challenge but won't work for table scraps. It's your business and if you want to race it to the bottom it's your call.


First off thanks to everyone who responded much appreciated.

The company that does it now is one of the bigger companies in the area. The HOA has been through 3 providers in 5 years. Reasons unknown outside of what the residents have said. Mostly response time and spotty work. The company doing it now lacks on communication is what I was told by the president. I was asked to put in a bid since I do most of the lawns for fert & weed control. I'm also doing 5 complete lawn renovations there this year. 3 of them are board members so they are the ones that asked me if I would bid it.

In all honesty the amount of work i have in these 2 blocks if i was to win the bid. I would spend one day there each week mowing. My hrly rate would be around 125 for mowing in my area that's crushing it. Then on the fert side between both blocks i have 40 yards and just signed up 10 more for next year. The property is 3 blocks from where i live. I have built a name and reputation in the area for quality work and excellent customer service.

The problem is when it comes to snow i don't have a clue cause i have no experience. And in this area there are 4 companies that have it locked up. And if i want a piece of the pie i feel like i have to get my foot in the door and prove myself but to do that i have to match bids. No one small wants to but heads with these guys cause they get little bones thrown to them from these companies. Even the President told me when i walked the property I'm surprised your willing to go up against this company. When i started this business those companies where the ones i am targeting. They have so much overhead i plan to use that against them. I have no intentions on ever getting that big. Don't want to be. 5 crews total is my goal 300 mowing contracts and 600 to 1000 on the fert side.

I think where it gets a little confusing when I'm on here is cause you guys actually get descent snow. And here we get snow but its not consistent or a lot all at once. For instance like last year we got 4or 5 2in or less storms. I did all my properties with 2 leaf blowers and a 21in Honda snow blower. Then we got one storm that was 5-8 inches it was wet snow i still used 1 21in snowblower but had to use shovels instead of backpack blowers. That was it.

Most of the time around here are storms are 4in or less at a time and to be honest usually 2in or less. Now i could be totally wrong in counting on that but if i can get triggers at 1in and we get several little snows in going to make good money. It's the big storms that will make my profit margins go down.

The only reason I'm buying the plow is to add that's service to my residential customers a lot have said they want one person doing it all. Snow removal landscape fert and mowing. I'm more worried about not even using the plow then i am of getting buried in snow. Another thing to keep in mind is when it snows here its on the ground for less then a week then its gone and we start over. 2013 was the last time i can remember us having snow cover for longer then 4 weeks. And that year was the 3rd biggest snowfall in history for us at like 82in are record is 88 in 1977.

I hope my rambling makes sense. And i truly appreciate your guys thoughts opinions and advice. Cause to he honest with out you guys i have no one to turn to for any type of snow advice.


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> B
> 
> First off thanks to everyone who responded much appreciated.
> 
> The company that does it now is one of the bigger companies in the area. The HOA has been through 3 providers in 5 years. Reasons unknown outside of what the residents have said. Mostly response time and spotty work. The company doing it now lacks on communication is what I was told by the president. I was asked to put in a bid since I do most of the lawns for fert & weed control. I'm also doing 5 complete lawn renovations there this year. 3 of them are board members so they are the ones that asked me if I would bid it.
> 
> In all honesty the amount of work i have in these 2 blocks if i was to win the bid. I would spend one day there each week mowing. My hrly rate would be around 125 for mowing in my area that's crushing it. Then on the fert side between both blocks i have 40 yards and just signed up 10 more for next year. The property is 3 blocks from where i live. I have built a name and reputation in the area for quality work and excellent customer service.
> 
> The problem is when it comes to snow i don't have a clue cause i have no experience. And in this area there are 4 companies that have it locked up. And if i want a piece of the pie i feel like i have to get my foot in the door and prove myself but to do that i have to match bids. No one small wants to but heads with these guys cause they get little bones thrown to them from these companies. Even the President told me when i walked the property I'm surprised your willing to go up against this company. When i started this business those companies where the ones i am targeting. They have so much overhead i plan to use that against them. I have no intentions on ever getting that big. Don't want to be. 5 crews total is my goal 300 mowing contracts and 600 to 1000 on the fert side.
> 
> I think where it gets a little confusing when I'm on here is cause you guys actually get descent snow. And here we get snow but its not consistent or a lot all at once. For instance like last year we got 4or 5 2in or less storms. I did all my properties with 2 leaf blowers and a 21in Honda snow blower. Then we got one storm that was 5-8 inches it was wet snow i still used 1 21in snowblower but had to use shovels instead of backpack blowers. That was it.
> 
> Most of the time around here are storms are 4in or less at a time and to be honest usually 2in or less. Now i could be totally wrong in counting on that but if i can get triggers at 1in and we get several little snows in going to make good money. It's the big storms that will make my profit margins go down.
> 
> The only reason I'm buying the plow is to add that's service to my residential customers a lot have said they want one person doing it all. Snow removal landscape fert and mowing. I'm more worried about not even using the plow then i am of getting buried in snow. Another thing to keep in mind is when it snows here its on the ground for less then a week then its gone and we start over. 2013 was the last time i can remember us having snow cover for longer then 4 weeks. And that year was the 3rd biggest snowfall in history for us at like 82in are record is 88 in 1977.
> 
> I hope my rambling makes sense. And i truly appreciate your guys thoughts opinions and advice. Cause to he honest with out you guys i have no one to turn to for any type of snow advice.


Seems you've answered your own question on what to do and willing to assume the risk and a loss. It's your company and your choice to make.


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## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> Seems you've answered your own question on what to do and willing to assume the risk and a loss. It's your company and your choice to make.


 It's scary when you haven't done it before. I guess it boils down to you live and learn. I'm glad I found this forum and I am truly grateful you took the time to respond in detail. I didn't get off to a great start on this forum with most. That's not typical and not like me. So hopefully people will realize I'm just another person trying to survive and not work for someone else. My 2 main concerns are doing everything legit insurance taxes everything! And not being a low baller and driving the market down.


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> It's scary when you haven't done it before. I guess it boils down to you live and learn. I'm glad I found this forum and I am truly grateful you took the time to respond in detail. I didn't get off to a great start on this forum with most. That's not typical and not like me. So hopefully people will realize I'm just another person trying to survive and not work for someone else. My 2 main concerns are doing everything legit insurance taxes everything! And not being a low baller and driving the market down.


 I saw your first rodeo here.....You've had a taste of what happens when details aren't share with questions. People want to help and there a very deep well of knowledge to draw from. When a defensive answer is given things go down hill real quick as you experienced. Seems you learned that lesson with this thread by being more prepared. Hope your first year and lesson doesn't turn out like your first rodeo here, if it does learn from it.


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## John_DeereGreen

I'd really like to know how you can legitimately gross $125 an hour for mowing.


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> I'd really like to know how you can legitimately gross $125 an hour for mowing.


I'm guessing a 2 or 3 man crew...so it's really $40-60 an hour. No way that's per man on a regular basis.


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm guessing a 2 or 3 man crew...so it's really $40-60 an hour. No way that's per man on a regular basis.


Kind of like one of the local hacks/lowballers here for winter. I can charge 45 an hour for a truck because I've got 4 of them, so I'm really making 180 an hour.

Yes chief, you're right. Keep up the profitable pricing you've got there.


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## LapeerLandscape

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm guessing a 2 or 3 man crew...so it's really $40-60 an hour. No way that's per man on a regular basis.


That was my thought.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

If I could get $125/hour per man mowing I'd be sledding all winter with a couple visits to Jamaica mixed in.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> If I could get $125/hour per man mowing I'd be sledding all winter with a couple visits to Jamaica mixed in.


Jamaica..... What's wrong with hog hunting in South Texas


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Jamaica..... What's wrong with hog hunting in South Texas


K...all 3.


----------



## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> K...all 3.


SureKwhatever..... guess you're never heard of South Padre in Texas. Great fishing, nice beaches (if that's your thang) and you can shot hogs on the mainland. Fish one day waste hogs the next.


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## EWSplow

BUFF said:


> SureKwhatever..... guess you're never heard of South Padre in Texas. Great fishing, nice beaches (if that's your thang) and you can shot hogs on the mainland. Fish one day waste hogs the next.


South padre  its a sandbar with some hotels and an RV park.


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## BUFF

EWSplow said:


> South padre  its a sandbar with some hotels and an RV park.


It was also a spring break destination for kids along with Lake Havasu AZ.
Had a lot of blurry memory's from both places...... Hope I don't end up being nominated for a Supreme Court Judge.....


----------



## EWSplow

BUFF said:


> It was also a spring break destination for kids along with Lake Havasu AZ.
> Had a lot of blurry memory's from both places...... Hope I don't end up being nominated for a Supreme Court Judge.....


Lake havasu? I don't go to lakes where you have to wait your tur6to get on the water. You need to get out of the southwest.


----------



## BossPlow2010

Mark Oomkes said:


> If I could get $125/hour per man mowing I'd be sledding all winter with a couple visits to Jamaica mixed in.


----------



## BUFF

EWSplow said:


> Lake havasu? I don't go to lakes where you have to wait your tur6to get on the water. You need to get out of the southwest.


Havasu is pretty cool...... the Colorado river feeds and exits it. They have snowmobile races on it, there hot rod boats all over, women in bikinis made of a roll of dental floss and bars along the channel. Also the original London Bridge was shipped over and put up going across the channel.
The only bad thing is, it gets hot. I was there aboot 4yrs ago on April 1st and it was 106*, when I leave my house we had 5" of fresh snow the day before and it was 20*.


----------



## BUFF

EWSplow said:


> Lake havasu? I don't go to lakes where you have to wait your tur6to get on the water. You need to get out of the southwest.


BTW, life is to short to sit on a sail boat, it's aboot burning excessive amounts of fossil fuel and hour......:usflag::usflag:


----------



## JT&SONS

John_DeereGreen said:


> I'd really like to know how you can legitimately gross $125 an hour for mowing.


I will be close if I were to win this bid. I now 20 yards on the block to tye south all those yards are 5k 35 a cut. I do all the yards the same day it takes 4-5 hrs. 700 ÷ 5=140 a hr. If i get The block behind it will actually lower my hrly cause i have to mow 2.9 acres of turf. Minus the 10 residents that have there mailbox flagged and mow there own yard. But it opens up the door for landscape care lawn renovations the BIG money maker aeration overseed. Fert and weed control side. Which i treat 40 yards between the 2 blocks.

The route being that right literally pull up and move the truck 2 times down the road. But don't load unload equipment for 4 to 5 hrs makes a huge profit increase. Now the rest of the week isn't quite as good. I'm averaging around 77hr mowing. I travel 24 miles a day from the time i leave my house to the time i return home go through one tank of fuel a week in the truck. I average 25 yards a day minimum cut price is 30. I run one 3 man crew will be expanding to 2 crews next year.

The average median income in my area is 60k and most of my work is derived. And population is under 100k so its not huge i can get from end to end in 20 minutes. Route density is all i can say

Another thing that helps is all my advertising is directed to areas i am. A lot of work comes from just pounding the pavement with door hangers. 
M


----------



## Ajlawn1

BUFF said:


> Havasu is pretty cool...... the Colorado river feeds and exits it. They have snowmobile races on it, there hot rod boats all over, women in bikinis made of a roll of dental floss and bars along the channel. Also the original London Bridge was shipped over and put up going across the channel.
> The only bad thing is, it gets hot. I was there aboot 4yrs ago on April 1st and it was 106*, when I leave my house we had 5" of fresh snow the day before and it was 20*.


Aunt lived in Havasu... Was there when I was like 13 and hung out with my cousins who were like late teens... Rode around in some lifted open top Pathfinder with a booming system all day just trolling... Went into a Taco Bell and literally had girls with dental floss in front of us... Amazing site. Wish I had a phone back then...


----------



## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> I will be close if I were to win this bid. I now 20 yards on the block to tye south all those yards are 5k 35 a cut. I do all the yards the same day it takes 4-5 hrs. 700 ÷ 5=140 a hr. If i get The block behind it will actually lower my hrly cause i have to mow 2.9 acres of turf. Minus the 10 residents that have there mailbox flagged and mow there own yard. But it opens up the door for landscape care lawn renovations the BIG money maker aeration overseed. Fert and weed control side. Which i treat 40 yards between the 2 blocks.
> 
> The route being that right literally pull up and move the truck 2 times down the road. But don't load unload equipment for 4 to 5 hrs makes a huge profit increase. Now the rest of the week isn't quite as good. I'm averaging around 77hr mowing. I travel 24 miles a day from the time i leave my house to the time i return home go through one tank of fuel a week in the truck. I average 25 yards a day minimum cut price is 30. I run one 3 man crew will be expanding to 2 crews next year.
> 
> The average median income in my area is 60k and most of my work is derived. And population is under 100k so its not huge i can get from end to end in 20 minutes. Route density is all i can say


This is type of efficiency that helps building the business and drops a few more quarters in your pocket .


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## JT&SONS

I'm sure my aera has a big role in my profit margins. Lots of middle working people that have nice homes. And nice yards but no time to take care of them. The average home i service is 150k+ with some homes over a million i take care of the VP of state farms home and its huge. I just did a full aeration and overseed for them took 5hrs I'm not going to say what i made but lets say it was well worth it.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

JT&SONS said:


> I will be close if I were to win this bid. I now 20 yards on the block to tye south all those yards are 5k 35 a cut. I do all the yards the same day it takes 4-5 hrs. 700 ÷ 5=140 a hr. If i get The block behind it will actually lower my hrly cause i have to mow 2.9 acres of turf. Minus the 10 residents that have there mailbox flagged and mow there own yard. But it opens up the door for landscape care lawn renovations the BIG money maker aeration overseed. Fert and weed control side. Which i treat 40 yards between the 2 blocks.
> 
> The route being that right literally pull up and move the truck 2 times down the road. But don't load unload equipment for 4 to 5 hrs makes a huge profit increase. Now the rest of the week isn't quite as good. I'm averaging around 77hr mowing. I travel 24 miles a day from the time i leave my house to the time i return home go through one tank of fuel a week in the truck. I average 25 yards a day minimum cut price is 30. I run one 3 man crew will be expanding to 2 crews next year.
> 
> The average median income in my area is 60k and most of my work is derived. And population is under 100k so its not huge i can get from end to end in 20 minutes. Route density is all i can say
> 
> Another thing that helps is all my advertising is directed to areas i am. A lot of work comes from just pounding the pavement with door hangers.
> M


Gotcha. So the $125/hour isn't for the entire route all week. Just this property. That makes more sense. Still very impressive at least for my market. As long as it's MAN HOUR, and not $125 divided by 3 man crew as Oomkes said.


----------



## JT&SONS

John_DeereGreen said:


> Gotcha. So the $125/hour isn't for the entire route all week. Just this property. That makes more sense. Still very impressive at least for my market. As long as it's MAN HOUR, and not $125 divided by 3 man crew as Oomkes said.


Its a little confusing if you break down to per man per hr its around 55-65 per hr. Some days its 77hr per man. But with mowing i shoot for 50hr per man. I feel like that's good money. And i shouldn't of said 3 man crew cause its basically a 2 man crew. My one boy does concrete so he only works with us when he isn't busy. But lately he had been working with us quite a bit.. I try to stay away from all commercial jobs let the big boys fight over those and i concentrate on the Big wigs in my area the ones that want taken care of with a silver spoon. But are down to earth are the very best customers.


----------



## JT&SONS

Can you guys link me to good info bidding monthly & seasonally? I would like to read up on how that process works. Thank you


----------



## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> If I could get $125/hour per man mowing I'd be sledding all winter with a couple visits to Jamaica mixed in.


 



 Party, Party!


----------



## FredG

Ajlawn1 said:


> Aunt lived in Havasu... Was there when I was like 13 and hung out with my cousins who were like late teens... Rode around in some lifted open top Pathfinder with a booming system all day just trolling... Went into a Taco Bell and literally had girls with dental floss in front of us... Amazing site. Wish I had a phone back then...


 Lake Mead was cool too.


----------



## BUFF

FredG said:


> Lake Mead was cool too.


Too mulch of a Vegas influence. Last time I was at Havasu it was during Spring Break, wet T shirt contest in every bar, toss a gal Mardi Gras beads and she pulls the hood up for you. I thought my 14yo boy's eye's were going to pop.


----------



## BUFF

FredG said:


> Party, Party!


Don't think nor do I want to find oot if Mark can do that.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

JT&SONS said:


> Can you guys link me to good info bidding monthly & seasonally? I would like to read up on how that process works. Thank you


Average seasonal snowfall or average services per season for a 5-10-15 (or your number of choice) year average. The second one for you won't be possible, but you can get a general idea if you know your annual snowfall and turn that data into plowing and salting events.

Some people add a "fudge" factor but I've never understood that, because a seasonal account should be paying for an average season, not average plus a fudge percentage. To each their own.


----------



## JT&SONS

John_DeereGreen said:


> Average seasonal snowfall or average services per season for a 5-10-15 (or your number of choice) year average. The second one for you won't be possible, but you can get a general idea if you know your annual snowfall and turn that data into plowing and salting events.
> 
> Some people add a "fudge" factor but I've never understood that, because a seasonal account should be paying for an average season, not average plus a fudge percentage. To each their own.


so we average 24 inches a year. So That's the starting number? These seem confusing to me already. I guess the better question is why when I was contacted did the request for a bid want monthly or yearly only? Specifically said no per push/event pricing will be accepted.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

JT&SONS said:


> so we average 24 inches a year. So That's the starting number? These seem confusing to me already. I guess the better question is why when I was contacted did the request for a bid want monthly or yearly only? Specifically said no per push/event pricing will be accepted.


Snowfall in inches divided by trigger in inches would be a starting point. Salting services depending on account and location should be somewhere between 1 and 2 times your plowing events.

They asked for monthly or yearly numbers to budget. You'll see that request more for retail properties than healthcare/manufacturing properties from my experience around here. I wouldn't be terribly surprised that HOA's are more interested in seasonal, but those aren't sites we do much with so I can't say for sure.

It's also going to be extremely regional as to who wants what and how it's priced.


----------



## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> so we average 24 inches a year. So That's the starting number? These seem confusing to me already. I guess the better question is why when I was contacted did the request for a bid want monthly or yearly only? Specifically said no per push/event pricing will be accepted.


They do this for budgetary reasons so they can accrual to the expense over the fiscal year.


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## JT&SONS

Here is the scope of work they sent me there is 7 and they all state the same thing no salt.


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## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> Here is the scope of work they sent me there is 7 and they all state the same thing no salt.
> View attachment 184616


Seems to be on point, as a contractor you should ask for clarity if you need it before bidding.


----------



## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> Seems to be on point, as a contractor you should ask for clarity if you need it before bidding.


 I'm going to call Monday.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Night time snowfalls to be cleared by 7 am. What if you don't hit the trigger until 630 am?


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## JT&SONS

John_DeereGreen said:


> Night time snowfalls to be cleared by 7 am. What if you don't hit the trigger until 630 am?


Ok, now I'm not trying to sound like a smart ass. I'm asking an honest question. Wouldnt you think that would be considered a daytime snow? Then it would be 6hrs to get it cleaned off.


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## BUFF

John_DeereGreen said:


> Night time snowfalls to be cleared by 7 am. What if you don't hit the trigger until 630 am?


That is one of those things that need be discussed and adjusted. I've seen that same thing over the years.
Day time snows to me means keep a clear travel lane/path, salt those area's, shovel walks as needed and after hour full clean up after the lot has cleared.


----------



## John_DeereGreen

JT&SONS said:


> Ok, now I'm not trying to sound like a smart ass. I'm asking an honest question. Wouldnt you think that would be considered a daytime snow? Then it would be 6hrs to get it cleaned off.


That's a good question. It should be on the list of the ones you have to ask before bidding. I've run into this many times, and most of the time people are reasonable and understand. There have been a handful of times that the person/people in charge either weren't flexible, or just didn't care, and refused to change anything on their views. Sorry, I cannot guarantee your property will be clean by 7 if it doesn't start snowing or hit the trigger until 6. That's just not possible.

Making sure you're all on the same page before you bid or sign a contract will ensure long term happiness on both sides. Snow isn't like landscaping. If there's a weed it can wait until tomorrow or the next day. Snow can't. It's much more unpredictable. Like mowing, you know you're going to be there every 7 days to cut the grass. Snow is anyone's guess. And it seems like snow brings all the crazies out.

You'll find out soon enough...


----------



## Freshwater

John_DeereGreen said:


> Night time snowfalls to be cleared by 7 am. What if you don't hit the trigger until 630 am?


Lots of factors involved here, but on a seasonal, I'd have smoked that lot before 7am anyway.


----------



## JT&SONS

I'm curious when you clear a walk wouldn't you want to apply salt? I would think not applying salt would be a no-no when it comes to slips and falls with insurance.


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## John_DeereGreen

JT&SONS said:


> I'm curious when you clear a walk wouldn't you want to apply salt? I would think not applying salt would be a no-no when it comes to slips and falls with insurance.


Sometimes people that are in positions that make decisions, do not know what they are doing, but think they are doing the correct thing. Correctly poured, finished, and cured concrete will not be affected by salt. Alternatively, most contractors will not repeatedly salt a property, unless there is a valid need for multiple applications on a seasonal or per service account.

Those are by far the top 2 reasons I get/have seen for "we don't want salt"


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Freshwater said:


> Lots of factors involved here, but on a seasonal, I'd have smoked that lot before 7am anyway.


A 6 hour account in a half hour? When the trigger isn't met until 630? Or 6? Or even 4 or 5?


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> A 6 hour account in a half hour? When the trigger isn't met until 630? Or 6? Or even 4 or 5?


Energy Drinks is the only away that's going to happen......


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## John_DeereGreen

BUFF said:


> Energy Drinks is the only away that's going to happen......


Or a **** ton of Texicans/Mexicans paid by the job and not by the hour.


----------



## JT&SONS

Mark Oomkes said:


> A 6 hour account in a half hour? When the trigger isn't met until 630? Or 6? Or even 4 or 5?


Most of them are small 5 of 7 at least going to sit down and measure them tonight.


----------



## BossPlow2010

JT&SONS said:


> Most of them are small 5 of 7 at least going to sit down and measure them tonight.


Doesn't matter how small they are, the point of the argument still stands and should be clarified with the manager(s)
If the trigger is met at 0659, it won't be cleared by 0700.
What is a night time snowfall defined as?
Also, when I present my contracts, I don't use the words snow removal and snow plowing interchangeably, we offer both services but they're two different things.
Sunrises time changes everyday so don't say that.
Another thing, 2" of snow, where is that to be measured? On the lot? At the airport? At your lot?



BUFF said:


> Energy Drinks is the only away that's going to happen......


If you drink two five hour energy drinks back to back, are you good for ten hours? Asking for a friend...


----------



## Randall Ave

All I know is, mother nature works at her own time frame. I don't know how you can guarantee the lot cleaned by a certain time. You can guarantee it will be plowed right before they open, but that's about it.


----------



## BUFF

BossPlow2010 said:


> If you drink two five hour energy drinks back to back, are you good for ten hours? Asking for a friend...


Wouldn't know, a can of Mtn Dew gets me rolling for a couple hours. Never had more than a sip of an energy drink and not a coffee drinker. Even Coffee Porter beer spools me up.


----------



## JT&SONS

Ok so i reworked my numbers for this property.

34k 1/2" trigger walks done in house.

1/2"-3.99=150
4"-6.99"=210
7"-9.99"=294
10+=Hrly
Salt base 680lbs =142.80


----------



## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> Ok so i reworked my numbers for this property.
> 
> 34k 1/2" trigger walks done in house.
> 
> 1/2"-3.99=150
> 4"-6.99"=210
> 7"-9.99"=294
> 10+=Hrly
> Salt base 680lbs =142.80
> View attachment 184653


What are you paying for salt or what's the cost you're using?


----------



## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> What are you paying for salt or what's the cost you're using?


.06 charge.21 per Lb


----------



## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> .06 charge.21 per Lb


So $.27 a pound? @ $.21/# the math works for the $142.80 cost but were does the .06 come in?
Are you using bulk or bagged and do you have valid quotes from your suppliers?


----------



## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> So $.27 a pound? @ $.21/# the math works for the $142.80 cost but were does the .06 come in?
> Are you using bulk or bagged and do you have valid quotes from your suppliers?


I have sourced bag salt at 3.03 a bag. That's cheaper then I can get bulk. Thats where .06 comes in at. The best bulk price i can get is 125. A ton which is 5.00 dollars more. Im still leaning towards a tail gate spreader. So I want bagged. I don't know exactly how much .

I'm actually charging .21 a lb I have pass through sales tax so there is some tax in the cost.

But yes i have official quote i have to have my salt picked up by the 15th of this month.


----------



## BUFF

JT&SONS said:


> I have sourced bag salt at 3.03 a bag. That's cheaper then I can get bulk. Thats where .06 comes in at. The best bulk price i can get is 125. A ton which is 5.00 dollars more. Im still leaning towards a tail gate spreader. So I want bagged. I don't know exactly how much .
> 
> I'm actually charging .21 a lb I have pass through sales tax so there is some tax in the cost.
> 
> But yes i have official quote i have to have my salt picked up by the 15th of this month.


So you figure about $42 in cost for the salt.
$3.03/ 50# bag is pretty cheap, where does it come from (Brand/Name)


----------



## JT&SONS

BUFF said:


> So you figure about $42 in cost for the salt.
> $3.03/ 50# bag is pretty cheap, where does it come from (Brand/Name)


Not sure i just went and looked my cost is actually 3.08 and i have to pay 150.00 for delivery to friend that is hauling back for me after he drops tires off in that area. So my cost is .07 cents a pound just so we are all clear i am not paying that delivery fee of 463. It went 300 dollars in 3 weeks.

Brand I'm not sure. Is this something i should he concerned with?


----------



## mnlawns

BossPlow2010 said:


> If you drink two five hour energy drinks back to back, are you good for ten hours? Asking for a friend...


if you were to drink 1,753,200 5hr energy drinks, would you live for 1000 years? Asking for a friend(Me)...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

JT&SONS said:


> Most of them are small 5 of 7 at least going to sit down and measure them tonight.


Maybe I'm mixed up...didn't you state the whole HOA was going to take 6 hours?

I signed a large office complex years ago. One of the requirements was that it was to be cleared by 7 AM. I told them straight out I couldn't guarantee that. If it starts snowing at 630, how can I have it plowed and salted by 7? I know you don't deal with lake effect, but we can get an inch in 15 minutes, how am I supposed to do that?

I explained the "weather" to them, and they were like "Oh, that makes sense". Been working there for over 10 years now with 1 winter off because they went with low bid. Everyone in a position to hear complaints about the service that year got sick of hearing "we didn't have this problem with Oomkes" or "Oomkes did this". They cancelled years 2 and 3 with the low bid and rehired us. That low bid company is the largest in GR.


----------



## Freshwater

Mark Oomkes said:


> A 6 hour account in a half hour? When the trigger isn't met until 630? Or 6? Or even 4 or 5?


Mark I was going by the lot in the first pic. Even if the snow started at 630, I have salted to slow the accumulation. 7am lot would be clear, then I'd handle drive lanes during the day and clear that night.

I didnt read the whole thread though, were you talking about a different lot for 6hrs? That would change the whole game plan.
Seasonals for me, the trigger is far less important. I just try to keep the lots as clear as I can.


----------



## JT&SONS

The HOA I'm thinking will take 3-4 hrs 

The lot in the first picture I'm thinking will take 1hr

The 7 different properties are all in different areas they need a seasonal or monthly price. I only managed to get one measured and it was 22k.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Freshwater said:


> Mark I was going by the lot in the first pic. Even if the snow started at 630, I have salted to slow the accumulation. 7am lot would be clear, then I'd handle drive lanes during the day and clear that night.
> 
> I didnt read the whole thread though, were you talking about a different lot for 6hrs? That would change the whole game plan.
> Seasonals for me, the trigger is far less important. I just try to keep the lots as clear as I can.


Like I said...maybe I'm confused. Not really sure which is spec is for what property anymore.


----------



## Freshwater

JT&SONS said:


> The HOA I'm thinking will take 3-4 hrs
> 
> The lot in the first picture I'm thinking will take 1hr
> 
> The 7 different properties are all in different areas they need a seasonal or monthly price. I only managed to get one measured and it was 22k.


The points being made about not being able to keep the lots completely clear 100% of the time are spot on. I like to talk to clients and run different scenarios by them. Most are very understanding when they then realize how handcuffed we often are by mother nature. They also impressed and often make the comment that companies in the past have never pointed alot of these things out.


----------



## Freshwater

Mark Oomkes said:


> Like I said...maybe I'm confused. Not really sure which is spec is for what property anymore.


Understood....


----------



## JT&SONS

Mark Oomkes said:


> Like I said...maybe I'm confused. Not really sure which is spec is for what property anymore.


HOA 43k sqft
First property in the thread is 34k sqft

The 7 properties i talked about are a mix of apartment buildings that range from 22k to I'm not sure yet i only have one measured. These 7 properties all require a separate bid they are for the same company and have same scope of work. But all are completely different properties. I'm thinking I'm only going to bid a few of them. 2 of them are to big for me. These seven properties are the ones that have 6hr time limit none of the properties i have mention so far will take 6hrs.


----------



## JT&SONS

Ok, so I'm struggling to understand how this monthly price works. So my average snowfall is 24inches so if I take that * by the trigger of 2 inches gives me 12 so do I now figure my price for 12 2 inch events and hope it doesn't pound us?

I do apologize I'm sure I am making this harder than it really is. But I can't find any good threads on this so if you know of one please link me. Thanks, Jeramy


----------



## Freshwater

JT&SONS said:


> Ok, so I'm struggling to understand how this monthly price works. So my average snowfall is 24inches so if I take that * by the trigger of 2 inches gives me 12 so do I now figure my price for 12 2 inch events and hope it doesn't pound us?
> 
> I do apologize I'm sure I am making this harder than it really is. But I can't find any good threads on this so if you know of one please link me. Thanks, Jeramy


That's how seasonal works. Heavy winters you make less, light winters you make more. Hoa is protected from blowing their budget in heavy winters, your protected from no income in light winters.


----------



## JT&SONS

Ok so i have a question. I call my supplier today and they said they made a mistake on the quote they sent me 3.08 per bag the actual price is 3.85 per bag. I was buying 8 pallets so we're talking 231.00 difference Not sure how to approach this one part of me says ok they made a mistake **** happens and move on and I'm sure when I need products they will remember I wasn't a jerk. The other part of me says dang I quoted quite a few jobs with the different pricing so if I win those bids that .01 cent per lb could end up getting costly. How would you approach this?


----------



## Ajlawn1

JT&SONS said:


> Ok so i have a question. I call my supplier today and they said they made a mistake on the quote they sent me 3.08 per bag the actual price is 3.85 per bag. I was buying 8 pallets so we're talking 231.00 difference Not sure how to approach this one part of me says ok they made a mistake **** happens and move on and I'm sure when I need products they will remember I wasn't a jerk. The other part of me says dang I quoted quite a few jobs with the different pricing so if I win those bids that .01 cent could end up getting costly. How would you approach this?


 So is it $.01 or $.77 per bag? At $3.08 a bag is pretty much bulk rate I would of never even believed that price... Even $3.85 seams silly low for bagged...


----------



## JT&SONS

.77 per bag difference updated quote


----------



## Ajlawn1

JT&SONS said:


> .77 per bag difference updated quote
> View attachment 184733


So a 25% mistake... If they're that low compared to others might need to bite the tongue. I just haven't bought bagged rock in 10 years so have no idea on pricing but if others are comparable just for my own well being I'd unload on them...


----------



## Randall Ave

Just had this on some parts I was quoted for an estimate. They met me half way. I still made out alright because, you are supposed to be quoting prices to make a profit.


----------



## Philbilly2

What percentage were you marking it up at?

You should be buying at wholesale, selling at retail or list plus markup...


----------



## Defcon 5

Philbilly2 said:


> What percentage were you marking it up at?
> 
> You should be buying at wholesale, selling at retail or list plus markup...


You should????....Huh....Does that help the Margins???


----------



## Philbilly2

Defcon 5 said:


> You should????....Huh....Does that help the Margins???


helps you to get more skin in the game...


----------



## Defcon 5

Philbilly2 said:


> helps you to get more skin in the game...


Is that the goal??....More Skin??


----------



## Ajlawn1

Defcon 5 said:


> Is that the goal??....More Skin??


Uh yeah... "Skin to win"


----------



## Defcon 5

Ajlawn1 said:


> Uh yeah... "Skin to win"


If you say so....


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## Ajlawn1

Defcon 5 said:


> If you say so....


We need to get you off the porch more...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skin+to+win&amp=true


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## Defcon 5

Ajlawn1 said:


> We need to get you off the porch more...
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skin+to+win&amp=true


If you say so...


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## JT&SONS

I have decided that while if I underbid a job I would honor the price cause that's the way I operate. I feel like in this situation they have the upper hand if I push they will just make it up next time I need something.


Philbilly2 said:


> What percentage were you marking it up at?
> 
> You should be buying at wholesale, selling at retail or list plus markup...


.21 per lb spread


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## John_DeereGreen

I'm not sure id get upset about .01 per pound of change in price. You're going to end up wasting that much anyway over the course of a season.


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## JT&SONS

Ok so I got a call today from the HOA I won the bid. I'm going to invest in another piece of equipment for the job. What would be the most efficient piece to add? Thinking something to get drives done efficiently would be the best purchase. But I could the experience and advice of you seasoned pros. Thanks


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## Mark Oomkes

JT&SONS said:


> I have decided that while if I underbid a job I would honor the price cause that's the way I operate. I feel like in this situation they have the upper hand if I push they will just make it up next time I need something.
> 
> .21 per lb spread


You do realize that comes to a whopping $20\ton? If that is going to break you, you better close shop right now.



JT&SONS said:


> Ok so I got a call today from the HOA I won the bid. I'm going to invest in another piece of equipment for the job. What would be the most efficient piece to add? Thinking something to get drives done efficiently would be the best purchase. But I could the experience and advice of you seasoned pros. Thanks
> View attachment 184811


Refresh my memory...how many of these are you doing? All? Any other accounts close by? What equipment do you have right now?


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## Randall Ave

Mark Oomkes said:


> You do realize that comes to a whopping $20\ton? If that is going to break you, you better close shop right now.
> 
> Refresh my memory...how many of these are you doing? All? Any other accounts close by? What equipment do you have right now?


I asked the equipment question before. Have you time framed all this work you are asking about, verses your equipment and man power?


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## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> You do realize that comes to a whopping $20\ton?


It does? $.77X40= $30.08


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## Mark Oomkes

JT&SONS said:


> I call my supplier today and they said they made a mistake on the quote they sent me 3.08 per bag the actual price is 3.85 per bag.


$3.08/50=$.07/pound
$3.85/50=$.08/pound

$.02x2,000=$40

We were both wrong. Unless they aren't 50# bags.


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## Ajlawn1

He got hit with a $.77 per 50 lb bag increase so he takes a $30.08 per ton hit...

I'm right...


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## John_DeereGreen

How do you bid work not knowing what you're going to do the job with??


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## Mark Oomkes

Ajlawn1 said:


> He got hit with a $.77 per 50 lb bag increase so he takes a $30.08 per ton hit...
> 
> I'm right...


$.77/50# is $.02 a pound.


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## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> $.77/50# is $.02 a pound x a ton = $31 bucks...


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## Mark Oomkes

Metric tonne?

Cuz every time I try $.02 x 2,000 (pounds in a imperial ton) it equals $40.


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## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Metric tonne?
> 
> Cuz every time I try $.02 x 2,000 (pounds in a imperial ton) it equals $40.


Cuz it's actually .0154 cents not your deuce cents...


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## Mark Oomkes

Ajlawn1 said:


> Cuz it's actually .0154 cents not your deuce cents...


Because I don't cut pennies in half. Must be an Indiana thing.


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## Mike_PS

quit ruining the thread, stay on point or don't post in it


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## JT&SONS

Mark Oomkes said:


> You do realize that comes to a whopping $20\ton? If that is going to break you, you better close shop right now.
> 
> Refresh my memory...how many of these are you doing? All? Any other accounts close by? What equipment do you have right now?


I have the HOA it = 43k including drives 42 drives on property. I have a fraternity 14k another HOA clubhouse at 6k and 16 residential drive. all commercial properties are with 2 miles of each other. The residentials are within a 5-mile radius. I'm figuring 8 hrs but it should only take 5. But want to figure on the high side.

Equipment 1 truck with plow & Spreader leaning toward a Vbox now instead of tailgate. 6 snow blowers and 6 backpack blowers.

I have access to a skid and backhoe and another truck with plow this is a really good friend of mines equipment. That has already said he would help. He doesn't do snow himself outside of his personal drive and property. Not something I want to count on but there if I need it we always share equipment with each other so not worried about it.


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## JT&SONS

John_DeereGreen said:


> How do you bid work not knowing what you're going to do the job with??


Most of the properties were bid for one truck and snow blowers. They are not huge by any means I did them last year with snow blowers the HOA is a new property. Which is why i am asking. The banks I was going to do wont be picked up till next year after looking at the contracts with my Mom the "president" of the banks she is locked in till next year. She signed a 3-year salt contract and the price is.15lb. The problem is that company was lying and saying they were applying 78lbs per 1k last year they were claiming they were applying a ton to 1.5 ton to 28k sqft she paid them but this year I will be watching so if they pull that **** again they will regret it.


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## ConnorExum

$450 per 1.5 tons and was that per year or per salt event?


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## JT&SONS

ConnorExum said:


> $450 per 1.5 tons and was that per year or per salt event?


per event a coup[le times they billed her for multiple applications her salt bill last year for each bank was over 5k

one property is 28k the other is 31k they charged 175 to plow and 150 plow.


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## Mark Oomkes

I'd be leary of condemning someone else's billing when I really don't know anything about the work.


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## JT&SONS

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'd be leary of condemning someone else's billing when I really don't know anything about the work.


I totally agree. But there is no explanation for the numbers. I live here i and if you can explain to me why 3000 lbs is being applied on 2-3 inch events I cleared every storm but one last year with backpack leaf blowers they were all light airy snow it was to cold for it to retain moister. And it was gone in 2 days after falling. We had one storm over 4 in at once and it was 5-7 in storm all the rest were 2 & 3-inch storms.

I sure cant explain it. But i sure know there is no way possible they applied that much salt.


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## LapeerLandscape

JT&SONS said:


> Ok so I got a call today from the HOA I won the bid. I'm going to invest in another piece of equipment for the job. What would be the most efficient piece to add? Thinking something to get drives done efficiently would be the best purchase. But I could the experience and advice of you seasoned pros. Thanks
> View attachment 184811


With no place to push the snow in there I would say a snow melter.


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## BossPlow2010

JT&SONS said:


> I totally agree. But there is no explanation for the numbers. I live here i and if you can explain to me why 3000 lbs is being applied on 2-3 inch events I cleared every storm but one last year with backpack leaf blowers they were all light airy snow it was to cold for it to retain moister. And it was gone in 2 days after falling. We had one storm over 4 in at once and it was 5-7 in storm all the rest were 2 & 3-inch storms.
> 
> I sure cant explain it. But i sure know there is no way possible they applied that much salt.


Not sure what kind of snow and ice management service you do, but the properties We maintain, letting it go for two days is a huge liability and increased risk for us and we're not willing to take. 
Every hour snow is left on a lot is an increase in likelihood of someone slipping and falling


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## JT&SONS

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'd be leary of condemning someone else's billing when I really don't know anything about the work.


One other thing I forgot to mention they charged 50.00 a bag for calcium chloride. I can get 50 lb bags for 7.45


BossPlow2010 said:


> Not sure what kind of snow and ice management service you do, but the properties We maintain, letting it go for two days is a huge liability and increased risk for us and we're not willing to take.
> Every hour snow is left on a lot is an increase in likelihood of someone slipping and falling


Again I agree. Honestly, I shouldn't even of brought it up. Its one of those things that you just have to be here to see it. Type things. I already have the mowing accounts for next season the plowing will follow and I will see for myself if that much is needed. If so I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

But if anyone has any suggestions on making the HOA more efficient like 4 wheelers with plows utv with plows skid back drag blade what ever I am open to listening.

IM leaning towards a back drag blade i since I have so many driveways. to do


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## Unraveller

JT&SONS said:


> But if anyone has any suggestions on making the HOA more efficient like 4 wheelers with plows utv with plows skid back drag blade what ever I am open to listening.
> 
> IM leaning towards a back drag blade i since I have so many driveways. to do


Tractor & Inverted blower. With a 92" blower you'd be done those driveways and laneway in about an hour, maybe less, regardless of how much snow falls.

If they made HOA that looked like that up here I'd camp out at night trying to get that business. That's a wet dream for an inverted.


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## mnlawns

Kubota tractor with a normand inverted blower for all the drives, one can clear 100 drives in about 7hrs with good proximity. So if you get that, i'd start marketing to every neighborhood within 2 miles of that HOA


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## Mr.Markus

JT&SONS said:


> per event a coup[le times they billed her for multiple applications her salt bill last year for each bank was over 5k
> 
> one property is 28k the other is 31k they charged 175 to plow and 150 plow.


I have never ever taken someone's word on what they are saying they are paying when they are actively shopping... Incedently my salt charges are a 1/2 ton minimum per app.. so my salt charges per square foot are going to be pretty consistent whereas in different conditions yours should be all over the place which will add to your customers confusion about billing.


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## BossPlow2010

Where are you getting CaCl for 7.45?


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## LapeerLandscape

BossPlow2010 said:


> Where are you getting CaCl for 7.45?


Same place they spotted bigfoot.


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## JT&SONS

BossPlow2010 said:


> Where are you getting CaCl for 7.45?


Its a blend but the same stuff I should of been more clear.


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## John_DeereGreen

JT&SONS said:


> Its a blend but the same stuff I should of been more clear.
> View attachment 184845


I'm going to bet it's about 80% sodium chloride at that price. If not more.


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## JT&SONS

John_DeereGreen said:


> I'm going to bet it's about 80% sodium chloride at that price. If not more.


 you sir are correct.


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## JT&SONS




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## JT&SONS

John_DeereGreen said:


> I'm going to bet it's about 80% sodium chloride at that price. If not more.


Pure pellets I think was in the 18.00 dollar range and please don't quote me on that. Cause I could be wrong


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## Mark Oomkes

JT&SONS said:


> Its a blend but the same stuff I should of been more clear.
> View attachment 184845


So its not calcium chloride. And I can about guarantee that calcium and mag will be on the low end of the listed percentages. At least it doesn't have potassium.


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## EWSplow

Mark Oomkes said:


> So its not calcium chloride. And I can about guarantee that calcium and mag will be on the low end of the listed percentages. At least it doesn't have potassium.


Here's the specs


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## zicesariz

JT&SONS said:


> One other thing I forgot to mention they charged 50.00 a bag for calcium chloride. I can get 50 lb bags for 7.45
> 
> Again I agree. Honestly, I shouldn't even of brought it up. Its one of those things that you just have to be here to see it. Type things. I already have the mowing accounts for next season the plowing will follow and I will see for myself if that much is needed. If so I will be the first to admit I was wrong.
> 
> But if anyone has any suggestions on making the HOA more efficient like 4 wheelers with plows utv with plows skid back drag blade what ever I am open to listening.
> 
> IM leaning towards a back drag blade i since I have so many driveways. to do


I charge $40 per bag but they do cost me $ 18 to $20


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## zicesariz

JT&SONS said:


> I know I didn't get off to the best start with some people in here. I'm really a cool dude if you get to know me. sorry if I pissed anyone off.
> 
> I'm looking for what people think it would take time wisely using 3/4 ton with 8.2 V with wings.
> 
> Per Push price for reference would be awesome. But not nesecry.
> 
> 34k 1/2 inch trigger salt on lot only sidewalks in-house
> 
> I'm thinking 127.50 per push
> Salt cost 121.38
> For total 248.88
> 
> Thanks for your time if you choose to participate.
> View attachment 184532


Which software are you using to measure this???


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## zicesariz

iceyman said:


> its all about location and cost of business.. for 1-3 i charge $150 plus $125 per salt app.. hence the reason i said ur price was low but for your area it may be right on target


Hey man. I'm located in Bucks County PA. This year is going to be my Second year doing snowplowing for myself. Me and my dad do a factory with two parking lots that total to about 55k sqtf. He shovels two entrances and I plow with an 8' straight blade. 
So I charge them $180 per push but I'm thinking on raising it to $300 per push or $250 if they don't accept . I know there's a lot of variables to this but just wanted to know your opinion on the info I provided since you're more experience and since I'm a new guy I'm always scared to give them my prices because I think they're too expensive but we live in one of the richest counties of all PA.


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## JT&SONS

zicesariz said:


> Which software are you using to measure this???


Service autopilot


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