# What can this truck handle ??



## On a Call

Okay I found the door tag which states the GVWR is 11675 ( 25740 )

This is a 98 GMC topkick.

How much weight can this truck legally handle/carry ??


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## Philbilly2

What is the tare weight of the truck?


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## Philbilly2

On a Call said:


> Okay I found the door tag which states the GVWR is 11675 ( 25740 )
> 
> This is a 98 GMC topkick.
> 
> How much weight can this truck legally handle/carry ??


and are you sure about these numbers?

11675 lbs is a class 3 truck. Topkicks were a class 4 minimum I believe?


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## On a Call

No idea...no wonder I am having troubles figuring this out. I only have the allowable total weight. I need Truck weight too...duh.

Thank you.


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## On a Call

Philbilly2 said:


> and are you sure about these numbers?
> 
> 11675 lbs is a class 3 truck. Topkicks were a class 4 minimum I believe?


Yes, according to the door tag


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## On a Call

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification

According to this chart it should be a class 6, however this is what is on the truck. It does have hydro brakes and a gas engine


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## jomama45

Philbilly2 said:


> and are you sure about these numbers?
> 
> 11675 lbs is a class 3 truck. Topkicks were a class 4 minimum I believe?


11675 kgs, or 25,740 lbs, obviously this a Canadian truock........

W/o a picture (its' not showing up on my screen) one can only guess, but it should be able to carry at least 6 tons American..........


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## Philbilly2

11675 must be KG

Sorry, I don't speak metric well...


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## On a Call

Philbilly2 said:


> 11675 must be KG
> 
> Sorry, I don't speak metric well...


You are correct IMO.

pounds it is 25740


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## On a Call

jomama45 said:


> 11675 kgs, or 25,740 lbs, obviously this a Canadian truock........
> 
> W/o a picture (its' not showing up on my screen) one can only guess, but it should be able to carry at least 6 tons American..........


Well it took the test and was sworn into the USA...and no longer says...EH.


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## Philbilly2

On a Call said:


> Well it took the test and was sworn into the USA...and no longer says...EH.


I bet it still drinks PBR though...


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## On a Call

LOL...found a case of empties under the seat.


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## On a Call

Any idea what these trucks weigh ??


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## jomama45

Generally speaking, 10-15K depending on a ton of factors, get the picture fixed and we can guess closer.........


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## John_DeereGreen

Tare weight on my 4300 with DXT and wings, empty spreader, truck full of fuel and 250lb driver was 16300. Kind of surprised me it was that heavy. 

Gas and no plow should help you a bit.


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## On a Call

jomama45 said:


> Generally speaking, 10-15K depending on a ton of factors, get the picture fixed and we can guess closer.........





John_DeereGreen said:


> Tare weight on my 4300 with DXT and wings, empty spreader, truck full of fuel and 250lb driver was 16300. Kind of surprised me it was that heavy.
> 
> Gas and no plow should help you a bit.


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## John_DeereGreen

Take it to a truck stop with a scale, or your local gravel pit might help you out with a weight also.


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## On a Call

John_DeereGreen said:


> Take it to a truck stop with a scale, or your local gravel pit might help you out with a weight also.


10 4
That is my thinking also,
I was curious how much it might hold. Not sure if buying a 8 yard spreader is too large.


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## John_DeereGreen

The spreader we put on the one I built last fall holds 8 tons and the truck handles it just fine.


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## jomama45

I misspoke earlier, that truck was built in Janesville, those units aren't metric, they're in quantities of cheese wheels.........


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## Randall Ave

I just replaced the rear springs in a 2002, C-8500. that door tag is listed the same way.


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## Defcon 5

John_DeereGreen said:


> The spreader we put on the one I built last fall holds 8 tons and the truck handles it just fine.


Is 8 tons legal??


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## On a Call

Defcon 5 said:


> Is 8 tons legal??


It may not be legal for over the road...but does that stop one from one site applications ??


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## Randall Ave

If your first stop is close, it should not matter. Any pics, or did I miss them.


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## On a Call

Randall Ave said:


> If your first stop is close, it should not matter. Any pics, or did I miss them.


Good point...that is what I always tell our drivers..closet first.

I guess I have no idea how to post photos...I have tried twice two different ways and neither showed the photos...I can see them on my end but I guess you guys cannot. Sorry.


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## BUFF

On a Call said:


> Good point...that is what I always tell our drivers..closet first.
> 
> I guess I have no idea how to post photos...I have tried twice two different ways and neither showed the photos...I can see them on my end but I guess you guys cannot. Sorry.


Have your kid show you how to post pics........


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## On a Call

lol...both are away in school..one at Kent State the other Owens.

I am going to dig a bit more...need a shovel 

Be right back.


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## Randall Ave

This is a pic of the left rear wheel. You may not have the helper springs, most of the helpers here we're still out in the road.


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## On a Call

Randall Ave said:


> This is a pic of the left rear wheel. You may not have the helper springs, most of the helpers here we're still out in the road.
> View attachment 177270


ouch....another reason

With other reasons also...bearings, brakes, stopping being really a biggy.


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## Randall Ave

On a Call said:


> ouch....another reason
> 
> With other reasons also...bearings, brakes, stopping being really a biggy.


Real men don't need brakes.


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## leolkfrm

that keeps you under the need for a cdl, get a tare weight, prob a 6 yrd max


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## On a Call

Okay can you see it now ?


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## On a Call

Randall Ave said:


> Real men don't need brakes.


As long as you are driving and I am no where near...and all small children, women, big children, and well anyone wanting to live 

I do recall one time having a brakes fail...not a pleasant experience at all


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## Randall Ave

On a Call said:


> Okay can you see it now ?


See what?


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## Philbilly2

On a Call said:


> Okay can you see it now ?


No


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## On a Call

Philbilly2 said:


> No


gezzo pizza.....

This is frustrating....totally

I have no idea. I can email you if needed.

Bottom line I do need to go get it weighed and take the difference.


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## On a Call

Randall Ave said:


> This is a pic of the left rear wheel. You may not have the helper springs, most of the helpers here we're still out in the road.
> View attachment 177270


You seem to know how to share photos..  did you go to Harvard ?

Did you hear or feel them break ??


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## leolkfrm

nope...


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## Randall Ave

On a Call said:


> You seem to know how to share photos..  did you go to Harvard ?
> 
> Did you hear or feel them break ??


That's a municipal dump truck. I fix this stuff for a living. Those springs really are not that hard to replace.


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## On a Call




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## On a Call




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## Philbilly2

On a Call said:


>


Nope again


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## Philbilly2

On a Call said:


>


Double nope


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## On a Call

Randall Ave said:


> That's a municipal dump truck. I fix this stuff for a living. Those springs really are not that hard to replace.


Yeah right, My local spring shop allows me to watch. I have learned and appreciate how they build them and install.

And...there is a reason they break


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## On a Call

Philbilly2 said:


> Double nope


I give up...


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## Randall Ave

On a Call said:


> Yeah right, My local spring shop allows me to watch. I have learned and appreciate how they build them and install.


I've replaced springs on loaded trailers, on the side of RT 80. It's all an illusion. There is tricks to everything.


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## Aerospace Eng

Philbilly2 said:


> and are you sure about these numbers?
> 
> 11675 lbs is a class 3 truck. Topkicks were a class 4 minimum I believe?


Never mind. Didn't read far enough


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## Philbilly2

Check your pm.

Send me the photo, I will get try to post it for you.


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## Philbilly2

Wrong direction, but I can't flip it on my phone. I need a desktop to fix that...


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## BUFF

rookies....


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## On a Call

You guys rock.
Phil...did you receive the door tag photo also ??


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## John_DeereGreen

I figured someone would question the legality. No it's not legal for the road. It spreads enough off to be close before leaving sites it's loaded at. 

I would guess that thing turns close to like a school bus with that stretched out wheelbase.


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## On a Call

Good point...I did not notice that problem however will take note next time I take it out.


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## John_DeereGreen

It might not be that bad. Ours is a 128" C/A and it turns better than my 2015 crew cab Super Duty.


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## Ajlawn1

If its anything like a 5500 they turn tighter then a nun's ....


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## Randall Ave

They turn pretty tight. Check your brake lines. They are not bad trucks, what motor, 454?


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## LapeerLandscape

On a Call said:


> You guys rock.
> Phil...did you receive the door tag photo also ??


I like it, what engine and trans.


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## On a Call

LapeerLandscape said:


> I like it, what engine and trans.


Not certain what engine other than a Gasser and a manual with a split speed rear end.

I have no idea if it is a good truck to build up or one to sell


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## Randall Ave

Go to Dayco automotive, run the vin on the vin decoder. Should give you the engine size.


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## On a Call

Randall Ave said:


> Go to Dayco automotive, run the vin on the vin decoder. Should give you the engine size.


I will do that


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## BIG

vin decoder
http://en.vindecoder.pl/1GDJ7H1B4XJ503805

engine 7.4L V8 OHV 16V 454


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## On a Call

BIG said:


> vin decoder
> http://en.vindecoder.pl/1GDJ7H1B4XJ503805
> 
> engine 7.4L V8 OHV 16V 454


Great....a small efficient block
Thank you for looking that up !
The good news is it runs smooth and starts


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## tpendagast

John_DeereGreen said:


> Take it to a truck stop with a scale, or your local gravel pit might help you out with a weight also.


This is a good idea

But if you do that, make sure all your lights work and all your ducks are in a row so dot cop doesn't give you some lame ticket just for trying to weigh your truck!


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## On a Call

tpendagast said:


> This is a good idea
> 
> But if you do that, make sure all your lights work and all your ducks are in a row so dot cop doesn't give you some lame ticket just for trying to weigh your truck!


I agree....I never had that happen but always a first time.


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## tpendagast

On a Call said:


> I agree....I never had that happen but always a first time.


We have the worst luck

Like guy pulling over in weigh station area because he thought he had a flat tire, didn't need to weigh , stations was actually closed
Dot cop wandered up to him a red flagged truck for some stupid reason (I don't recall what it was)
Just double check everything before you wander near the "safety nazis"


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## On a Call

tpendagast said:


> We have the worst luck
> 
> Like guy pulling over in weigh station area because he thought he had a flat tire, didn't need to weigh , stations was actually closed
> Dot cop wandered up to him a red flagged truck for some stupid reason (I don't recall what it was)
> Just double check everything before you wander near the "safety nazis"


I agree...

It is like asking for dirrections...oh, by the way can I have a ticket as well 

Avoid the chance to get a citation.


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## Philbilly2

On a Call said:


> You guys rock.
> Phil...did you receive the door tag photo also ??


Sorry, I missed it last night before I crashed for the night.

Here it is. @BUFF please spin for me.


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## Philbilly2

You got the door tag to post on page one. Do what you did there again.


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## Randall Ave

It's a stick with a two speed. Make sure who ever drives it knows how to shift it.


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## FredG

Just a guess from the pic. I would say you would be over loaded after 6 ton. My single axle 10 ton and one 12 ton are quiet a bit bigger than that. And the one registered for 12 I only put 10 ton on. Little hairy trying to stop it. They are IHC 1954 probably equal to a heavy 4900.


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## On a Call

Randall Ave said:


> It's a stick with a two speed. Make sure who ever drives it knows how to shift it.


Shifting aint the problem...knowing how to use the clutch is  You are correct. The nice thing is being able to creep around in say first.

How do you use and what are the benefits of a two speed ??


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## On a Call

FredG said:


> Just a guess from the pic. I would say you would be over loaded after 6 ton. My single axle 10 ton and one 12 ton are quiet a bit bigger than that. And the one registered for 12 I only put 10 ton on. Little hairy trying to stop it. They are IHC 1954 probably equal to a heavy 4900.


The good news for me is that is more than I have now. I am going to get it weighed that way I know.

That and without a CDL required helps finding a legal driver.


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## Randall Ave

On a Call said:


> Shifting aint the problem...knowing how to use the clutch is  You are correct. The nice thing is being able to creep around in say first.
> 
> How do you use and what are the benefits of a two speed ??


You are sure it has a two speed rear? On the gear shift stick, there is a selector switch?


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## On a Call

Yes, there is a switch and on the rear end pig there is a apparatus bolted on.


Randall Ave said:


> You are sure it has a two speed rear? On the gear shift stick, there is a selector switch?


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## BUFF

Philbilly2 said:


> Sorry, I missed it last night before I crashed for the night.
> 
> Here it is. @BUFF please spin for me.
> 
> View attachment 177287


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## Mark Oomkes

On a Call said:


> Good point...that is what I always tell our drivers..closet first.


We always start furthest oot and work our way back.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> We always start furthest oot and work our way back.


That makes no sense.,.,..,when you run short you gotta be the furthest away...More cost effective..


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## Mark Oomkes

Watt happened to the wattever with the Detoilet that you forgot aboot?


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> That makes no sense.,.,..,when you run short you gotta be the furthest away...More cost effective..


Now I have my work cut oot for me today. Redoing all my salt routes so I can use your advice.


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## On a Call

Mark Oomkes said:


> We always start furthest out and work our way back.


Okay perhaps my thinking is flawed..not a first time.

I am concerned about about weight reduction. As the guys start with the closet site they will be reducing weight as they move along...but, your thought is what I always use otherwise.

Plowing start far and work back. But mostly I am concerned about priority, the ones needing serviced first then onto the lesser.

Aw heck...guess I could tell em do whatever you want


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## On a Call

Mark Oomkes said:


> Watt happened to the wattever with the Detoilet that you forgot aboot?


Hmmm...trying to decipher what it is you are trying to say.

But then you seem to read my posts okay, I think.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Now I have my work cut oot for me today. Redoing all my salt routes so I can use your advice.


I'm glad your heeding my advice


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## FredG

On a Call said:


> The good news for me is that is more than I have now. I am going to get it weighed that way I know.
> 
> That and without a CDL required helps finding a legal driver.


If it's a 2sp axle I would just go though your gears and if you need high pull up on the red lever and touch the gas should slip right in. You will not be carrying enough weight to use all 10 gears.


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## Philbilly2

Defcon 5 said:


> That makes no sense.,.,..,when you run short you gotta be the furthest away...More cost effective..


Mookes says he never comes up short...


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> I'm glad your heeding my advice


Heeding...I need to check with my daughter a minute...


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## Philbilly2

Defcon 5 said:


> I'm glad your heeding my advice


He finally found someone he can hitch his wagon two...


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Heeding...I need to check with my daughter a minute...


heed
hēd/
_verb_
gerund or present participle: *heeding*

pay attention to; take notice of.
"he should have heeded the warnings"
synonyms: pay attention to, take notice of, take note of, pay heed to, attend to, listen to; 
bear in mind, be mindful of, mind, mark, consider, take into account, follow, obey, adhere to, abide by, observe, take to heart, be alert to
"heed the warnings"


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## LapeerLandscape

FredG said:


> If it's a 2sp axle I would just go though your gears and if you need high pull up on the red lever and touch the gas should slip right in. You will not be carrying enough weight to use all 10 gears.


We had 2 spd axles when we were farming and you started in 1st low, pulled the botton for 1st high let off on the throttle and it would shift, pushed the botton in as you shifted to 2nd for 2nd low and pulled the botton and let off the throttle for it to shift to 2nd high and so on.


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## Defcon 5

Philbilly2 said:


> He finally found someone he can hitch his wagon two...


Turning the tables....He is hitching his wagon to me..I will pull him to the promise land


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Turning the tables....He is hitching his wagon to me..I will pull him to the promise land


Straight face???


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## Philbilly2

LapeerLandscape said:


> We had 2 spd axles when we were farming and you started in 1st low, pulled the botton for 1st high let off on the throttle and it would shift, pushed the botton in as you shifted to 2nd for 2nd low and pulled the botton and let off the throttle for it to shift to 2nd high and so on.


Sounds confusing 

I prefer an air splitter...

clutch is for first and split only... start in the basement, skip a few here and there (depending on load), clutch it, hit the spitter and run threw um again...


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## LapeerLandscape

Philbilly2 said:


> Sounds confusing
> 
> I prefer an air splitter...
> 
> clutch is for first and split only... start in the basement, skip a few here and there (depending on load), clutch it, hit the spitter and run threw um again...


After getting the hang of it I could shift thru the gears and hi and low with just letting off the throttle and meshing the gears.


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## FredG

LapeerLandscape said:


> We had 2 spd axles when we were farming and you started in 1st low, pulled the botton for 1st high let off on the throttle and it would shift, pushed the botton in as you shifted to 2nd for 2nd low and pulled the botton and let off the throttle for it to shift to 2nd high and so on.


Yes if you have the weight you may need all 10 speeds. The trucks I owned or drove with 2sp axles never needed all 10 speeds, They could not carry enough weight.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Straight face???


What do you think


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## FredG

Philbilly2 said:


> Sounds confusing
> 
> I prefer an air splitter...
> 
> clutch is for first and split only... start in the basement, skip a few here and there (depending on load), clutch it, hit the spitter and run threw um again...


My 13 sp I don't use the clutch for anything but starting from a stop. Don't want to cooperate using the clutch.


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## On a Call

LapeerLandscape said:


> We had 2 spd axles when we were farming and you started in 1st low, pulled the botton for 1st high let off on the throttle and it would shift, pushed the botton in as you shifted to 2nd for 2nd low and pulled the botton and let off the throttle for it to shift to 2nd high and so on.


Is there really any advantage to having it ??

I am doubting there is.


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## On a Call

Philbilly2 said:


> Sounds confusing
> 
> I prefer an air splitter...
> 
> clutch is for first and split only... start in the basement, skip a few here and there (depending on load), clutch it, hit the spitter and run threw um again...


Serious ???


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## Randall Ave

Didn't someone around here like 18 speeds? Seriously, a two speed is easy to shift. Find an old timer buy you, around Fred's or my age. Have them show you how to shift it.


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## Mark Oomkes

What can this truck handle?

Get the truck weighed. Get the weights of the plow you want, flatbed or dump box, spreader, hydraulics, hitch, etc.

Add everything up, subtract it from GVWR. 

Then you will have your answer. It won't tell you if you will be overloaded on your front axle though. Might give you an idea.


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## On a Call

Mark Oomkes said:


> What can this truck handle?
> 
> Get the truck weighed. Get the weights of the plow you want, flatbed or dump box, spreader, hydraulics, hitch, etc.
> 
> Add everything up, subtract it from GVWR.
> 
> Then you will have your answer. It won't tell you if you will be overloaded on your front axle though. Might give you an idea.


So,,,you are telling me I should not be driving ??


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## Randall Ave

No, he's saying get her weight empty. Then do the math on what your going to put on it. Compare that to the door sticker gvwr.


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## LapeerLandscape

On a Call said:


> Is there really any advantage to having it ??
> 
> I am doubting there is.


Lots of advantage when you have weight on. Otherwise its like a car with a 4 spd and starting in 2nd and going straight to 4th.


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## FredG

On a Call said:


> Is there really any advantage to having it ??
> 
> I am doubting there is.


There is a advantage if your heavy or in the hills, Randy explained how to shift it. Back in the day they had 2sp axles in 14 ton 10 wheeler. You most likely would use all 10 sp. In your case hauling salt I doubt you will need them. Just go though your straight 5 sp and go up into high when you need to. Probably around 45 mph you would need high,


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## LapeerLandscape

My guess is that truck is going to weigh 12,000 to 14,000LBs the way it sets. So with everything you add to it you cant go over 26,000LBs loaded.


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## FredG

LapeerLandscape said:


> My guess is that truck is going to weigh 12,000 to 14,000LBs the way it sets. So with everything you add to it you cant go over 26,000LBs loaded.


Which would mean around 6 ton, No?


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## LapeerLandscape

FredG said:


> Which would mean around 6 ton, No?


Yes, that will have to include a bed if he puts one or just use 6x6 across the frame like I did plus the weight of the spreader and the salt.


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## Mark Oomkes

LapeerLandscape said:


> My guess is that truck is going to weigh 12,000 to 14,000LBs the way it sets. So with everything you add to it you cant go over 26,000LBs loaded.


Unless you start close and work your way oot...


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## Mark Oomkes

On a Call said:


> So,,,you are telling me I should not be driving ??


If basic math is hard for you, you probably shouldn't be...


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## FredG

LapeerLandscape said:


> Yes, that will have to include a bed if he puts one or just use 6x6 across the frame like I did plus the weight of the spreader and the salt.


Ditto, Put a set of fenders - Mud flaps and move out.


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## BUFF

FredG said:


> Ditto, Put a set of fenders - Mud flaps and move out.


Old pickanic tables make good fenders...... seen that on the Plow-SiteThumbs Up


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## FredG

BUFF said:


> Old pickanic tables make good fenders...... seen that on the Plow-SiteThumbs Up


They were cool, Look like you could stand on them.


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## Defcon 5

BUFF said:


> Old pickanic tables make good fenders...... seen that on the Plow-SiteThumbs Up


So do Fire Rings


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## Randall Ave

Behind the driver's side front tire, there is that step, if you look in there, I think you will find the fuel filter, if it looks old, replace it.


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## LapeerLandscape

Defcon 5 said:


> So do Fire Rings


That's what I used. I can stand on them, but not when I'm drinking.


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## Mark Oomkes

Good enuff fore Detoilet, Toledo or Lapeertucky...


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Good enuff fore Detoilet, Toledo or Lapeertucky...


Just so angry and Bitter


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Just so angry and Bitter


I'm bizzie bothering the mechanic...


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm bizzie bothering the mechanic...


Making a scene out in the garage....Understood


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## FredG

LapeerLandscape said:


> That's what I used. I can stand on them, but not when I'm drinking.
> 
> View attachment 177320


Fender is cool, I see you got some old advertising on the shelve.


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Making a scene out in the garage....Understood


Sure...


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## LapeerLandscape

FredG said:


> Fender is cool, I see you got some old advertising on the shelve.


I have some always looking for a little more.


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## kimber750

Mark Oomkes said:


> We always start furthest oot and work our way back.


We actually do do this for one reason. Our furthest site is the most hilly and the weight is needed for traction in the 5500 since the road crews seem to take their sweet time getting roads done. But still this is less than 2mi from the pile.


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## LapeerLandscape

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm bizzie bothering the mechanic...


I hope he tightens your screws. They seem to be a little loose.


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## Mark Oomkes

LapeerLandscape said:


> I hope he tightens your screws. They seem to be a little loose.


Agreed...


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## Philbilly2

On a Call said:


> Serious ???


Serious what?


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> Serious what?


I'm still trying to figger oot if this whole thread is serious.

OP claims to have 30+ years in the industry but can't figure oot how to determine payload of a truck?


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## FredG

LapeerLandscape said:


> That's what I used. I can stand on them, but not when I'm drinking.
> 
> View attachment 177320


You probably got a bottle of Fireball in your desk, Stay away from the fender.


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## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm still trying to figger oot if this whole thread is serious.
> 
> OP claims to have 30+ years in the industry but can't figure oot how to determine payload of a truck?


The Op will get all the info he needs when he gets or looks at the registration, No? You would know the deal here. IMO I think Randy figured it out lol.


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## Mark Oomkes

FredG said:


> The Op will get all the info he needs when he gets or looks at the registration, No? You would know the deal here. IMO I think Randy figured it out lol.


If we really wanted to have fun, we could get into what he is going to select for his Elected Gross Vehicle Weight sticker on his plate.

But that requires advanced math...


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## Mike_PS

well, looks like another thread went too far off course so if we can't get it back on track I will close it or remove it

thanks


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## Defcon 5

Michael J. Donovan said:


> well, looks like another thread went too far off course so if we can't get it back on track I will close it or remove it
> 
> thanks


I have faith we can un hitch this wagon from the current Donkey and get it going in the right direction


----------



## On a Call

:weightlifter:


Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm still trying to figger oot if this whole thread is serious.
> 
> OP claims to have 30+ years in the industry but can't figure oot how to determine payload of a truck?


Yeah about 36 years...but who is counting.

Never used much trucks larger than one tons....we just ran a bunch of pick-ups with small spreaders, flat beds, and dumps. Never really paid any attention to weight...if we could fit it on there and the tires did not blow or springs break we were okay.....just drive slower.

I can see Ohio state troopers or Michigan state police or Allen Park PD saying...hmmmm are you over weight we need more money. So to avoid having to pay brides...I thought I would know where I am and do it right well at least know what is right.

As far as your front end comment...  I figured you saw me and thought...he better be concerned about his front axle> :weightlifter: <

Payload I knew most of it...just was curious what a truck like this one might be able to handle both legal and well over weighed I am guessing some of you ran this exact truck back in your past or current.

Bottom line...wanting to find the right spreader for this truck large enough but no need and putting on a 12 yard spreader, That would like 10 tons of BS from a 200 pound guy, but I could try.

All in all...thank you for the advice it is well taken and looking forward to sharing photos...if I ever figure out how to do it photos that is.

Going to have the frame, steps, bed, and wheel well sprayed with LineX. I think it should be a usable truck.

*HOWEVER...IF ANYONE HAS ANY REASON TO SAY STOP.....PLEASE DO !!! BETTER TO LEARN FROM THOSE WHO HAVE MADE MISTAKES THAN TO MAKE THE SAME ONES TWICE.*

As always...thank you guys.

So....who would like to go fishing this spring for eyes on the Detroit river ???


----------



## Randall Ave

Fishing for eyes? The truck will be fine. Just going to be a little bit of a gas hog.


----------



## On a Call

I found my trucks daddy

Well someone else did 

https://www.auctionsinternational.com/auction/13293/item/west-genesee-schools-ny-13293-81312


----------



## On a Call

Randall Ave said:


> Fishing for eyes? The truck will be fine. Just going to be a little bit of a gas hog.


Yeah but it will make salting more easy 

And that I like


----------



## Randall Ave

On a Call said:


> I found my trucks daddy
> 
> Well someone else did
> 
> https://www.auctionsinternational.com/auction/13293/item/west-genesee-schools-ny-13293-81312


That's like what I just replaced the springs on. Hey, she's an automatic. Air brakes. But that's a CDL truck


----------



## LapeerLandscape

On a Call said:


> I found my trucks daddy
> 
> Well someone else did
> 
> https://www.auctionsinternational.com/auction/13293/item/west-genesee-schools-ny-13293-81312


I was going to say the same thing as Randall probably need a cdl even though they don't give gvw


----------



## Randall Ave

LapeerLandscape said:


> I was going to say the same thing as Randall probably need a cdl even though they don't give gvw


She's gonna be round 36,000.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Randall Ave said:


> She's gonna be round 36,000.


Yup thats just about what I thought.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

FredG said:


> You probably got a bottle of Fireball in your desk, Stay away from the fender.


Heck yeah.


----------



## Freshwater

Mark Oomkes said:


> What can this truck handle?
> 
> Get the truck weighed. Get the weights of the plow you want, flatbed or dump box, spreader, hydraulics, hitch, etc.
> 
> Add everything up, subtract it from GVWR.
> 
> Then you will have your answer. It won't tell you if you will be overloaded on your front axle though. Might give you an idea.


Mark you know gvwr means nothing legally.
Legal loading limit in Michigan. Tire rating with a cap of 18,000 on the rear axle.
And tire rating with a cap of 12,500 on the front steer axle.

On a call, look on the sidewall of you tires the weight rating will be stamped there. The duels will have 2 different ratings 1 when the tire Is by itself and
2 when the tires are duals, go by the duels. Add them up and subtract the weight of your truck with plow and salter on but empty. The key is loading correctly to get the right amount of weight on each axle correct. You can be under weight but still have too much weight on a single axle if not correct.
This is true in any state that uses the Fed guideines and law, I'm not sure if they all do.


----------



## FredG

Randall Ave said:


> She's gonna be round 36,000.


if it is the minici had something to do with it.


LapeerLandscape said:


> Yup thats just about what I thought.


With the plow wing and spreader you maybe right, My friend got a ford 8000 that's at 35K my one IHC is 35K. If it did not have the plow looks small next to mine.


----------



## On a Call

Freshwater said:


> Mark you know gvwr means nothing legally.
> Legal loading limit in Michigan. Tire rating with a cap of 18,000 on the rear axle.
> And tire rating with a cap of 12,500 on the front steer axle.
> 
> On a call, look on the sidewall of you tires the weight rating will be stamped there. The duels will have 2 different ratings 1 when the tire Is by itself and
> 2 when the tires are duals, go by the duels. Add them up and subtract the weight of your truck with plow and salter on but empty. The key is loading correctly to get the right amount of weight on each axle correct. You can be under weight but still have too much weight on a single axle if not correct.
> This is true in any state that uses the Fed guideines and law, I'm not sure if they all do.


I will do that...I also wonder...what if the tire ratings are higher than the truck rating ? or is that even possible ?


----------



## Freshwater

On a Call said:


> I will do that...I also wonder...what if the tire ratings are higher than the truck rating ? or is that even possible ?


Almost always higher. Sticker in the door are the manufacturer recommendation. They have absolutely nothing to do with how much weight you can legally haul. They are however legally used for for determining what license you need.


----------



## On a Call

Freshwater said:


> Almost always higher. Sticker in the door are the manufacturer recommendation. They have absolutely nothing to do with how much weight you can legally haul. They are however legally used for for determining what license you need.


So if you are pulled over...what do they go by ??


----------



## Freshwater

On a Call said:


> So if you are pulled over...what do they go by ??


Depends on the cop.. they'l tell you all kinds of ****, to get you to just pay the ticket. Often times they'l lie to you , they'l lie to the judge right in court. Sometimes the judge even listens to the lies. You'l win on appeal, the law says tire rating.


----------



## On a Call

Freshwater said:


> Depends on the cop.. they'l tell you all kinds of ****, to get you to just pay the ticket. Often times they'l lie to you , they'l lie to the judge right in court. Sometimes the judge even listens to the lies. You'l win on appeal, the law says tire rating.


10 4

Tires win


----------



## Philbilly2

Freshwater said:


> Depends on the cop.. they'l tell you all kinds of ****, to get you to just pay the ticket. Often times they'l lie to you , they'l lie to the judge right in court. Sometimes the judge even listens to the lies. You'l win on appeal, the law says tire rating.


Can you show me this law? I have never heard that gvwr means nothing. I treat it that way, but I know that I am pushing the limit when I do.

The door sticker being a recommendation sounds like horse hockey to me. Think about the brakes, the springs, etc.

So if I get adapters so I can put 19.5 wheels and tires on a 3500 p/u then load that truck to 25,000 lbs, that is legal because my tires can handle it?


----------



## FredG

Philbilly2 said:


> Can you show me this law? I have never heard that gvwr means nothing. I treat it that way, but I know that I am pushing the limit when I do.
> 
> The door sticker being a recommendation sounds like horse hockey to me. Think about the brakes, the springs, etc.
> 
> So if I get adapters so I can put 19.5 wheels and tires on a 3500 p/u then load that truck to 25,000 lbs, that is legal because my tires can handle it?


I have to agree with Phil here, When I buy a truck used I'm concerned with the registration states weight wise. I got a IHC that come from a minci the reggy states it can carry 12 ton. 1 of my other truck identical is registered for 10 ton. Same GVW in the door panel. In NY anyways if your worried about the weight you can carry look at the reggy. If you want to up your weight it's a hassle. If you want to lower it no Problem.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

FredG said:


> I have to agree with Phil here, When I buy a truck used I'm concerned with the registration states weight wise. I got a IHC that come from a minci the reggy states it can carry 12 ton. 1 of my other truck identical is registered for 10 ton. Same GVW in the door panel. In NY anyways if your worried about the weight you can carry look at the reggy. If you want to up your weight it's a hassle. If you want to lower it no Problem.


You can register your trucks to carry what ever you want but that wont make it legal. I can register my single axle volvo to carry 50,000LBs but I cant scale that much on the truck. Now if I hook my tandem dually trailer with my backhoe on it I have to have it plated for that much or more.


----------



## Freshwater

Philbilly2 said:


> Can you show me this law? I have never heard that gvwr means nothing. I treat it that way, but I know that I am pushing the limit when I do.
> 
> The door sticker being a recommendation sounds like horse hockey to me. Think about the brakes, the springs, etc.
> 
> So if I get adapters so I can put 19.5 wheels and tires on a 3500 p/u then load that truck to 25,000 lbs, that is legal because my tires can handle it?


Yes I can but you'l have to give me a few. The only thing actually codified in the law is tire rating with a cap per axle. 
As stated in my other post, cops will try and say all kinds of crazy ****, and some judges will even go for it. Appeal judges tend to be better judges, and they work in panels, alot less mischief. 
This is the federal law, and Michigan goes by it. Not sure about illinois.


----------



## Philbilly2

LapeerLandscape said:


> You can register your trucks to carry what ever you want but that wont make it legal. I can register my single axle volvo to carry 50,000LBs but I cant scale that much on the truck. Now if I hook my tandem dually trailer with my backhoe on it I have to have it plated for that much or more.


The way I look at over plating is it might get you out of one ticket if your over by a bit when they DOT you on the side of the road.

Your still going to get the other dozen or so tickets that he/she wants to write you, but at least that one you are good.

Also, it allows you to get out of the gravel pit a little heavy and not have to waste the time with dumping the extra couple pounds off if you are hauling local.

BUT... as I have expressed before, I think of GVWR as a suggestion that is meant to be broken... but I also understand that when I do so, I am breaking the law.


----------



## Philbilly2

Freshwater said:


> Yes I can but you'l have to give me a few. The only thing actually codified in the law is tire rating with a cap per axle.
> As stated in my other post, cops will try and say all kinds of crazy ****, and some judges will even go for it. Appeal judges tend to be better judges, and they work in panels, alot less mischief.
> This is the federal law, and Michigan goes by it. Not sure about illinois.


I get paid by the hour... I have nothing but time...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Freshwater said:


> Yes I can but you'l have to give me a few. The only thing actually codified in the law is tire rating with a cap per axle.
> As stated in my other post, cops will try and say all kinds of crazy ****, and some judges will even go for it. Appeal judges tend to be better judges, and they work in panels, alot less mischief.
> This is the federal law, and Michigan goes by it. Not sure about illinois.


Then why is it required to have a weight sticker on the door jamb?

To the point they can issue a ticket for not having one?

And it's the first thing they check?


----------



## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Then why is it required to have a weight sticker on the door jamb?
> 
> To the point they can issue a ticket for not having one?
> 
> And it's the first thing they check?


You have had that happen to you too I am guessing?

Cop checked the door tag before he even asked for my license, med card, and insurance card...


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Let me just say this about the tires. When I use to order overweight permits the only thing they cared about was axle spacing, number of axles and tire size. The maximum I could ever get was 700LBs per inch on a tire when ordering an overweight permit.


----------



## FredG

Philbilly2 said:


> You have had that happen to you too I am guessing?
> 
> Cop checked the door tag before he even asked for my license, med card, and insurance card...


They put me on the scale first, Then wanted the reggy etc and checking my door tag. They will pick your truck down to the bone, pull wheels for inspection. When you see them NYS Troopers in them vans you could have some trouble.


----------



## Philbilly2

That is because all they are worried about is what it has to do with the impact on the road


----------



## FredG

I went to NYS DMV site so maybe I could post a link. I did not see any good enough info to post.


----------



## Randall Ave

All depends on what the cop is looking for. But when the truck is built at the factory, it is engineered/designed, and the door tag reflects that. As far as I know, that can be changed by the final chassis upfitter.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Freshwater said:


> Mark you know gvwr means nothing legally.
> Legal loading limit in Michigan. Tire rating with a cap of 18,000 on the rear axle.
> And tire rating with a cap of 12,500 on the front steer axle.





Freshwater said:


> They have absolutely nothing to do with how much weight you can legally haul.


So you're saying I can have a FAWR of 9,000# and I won't get a ticket for being overloaded on the front axle if I have a plow and the actual weight is say 11,900#?

So this means I can load my 550 up to say 26,000# and I won't get an overweight ticket? As long as I'm not over 12,500 on the front and 18,000 on the rear?



Freshwater said:


> They are however legally used for for determining what license you need.


Absolute bovine excrement. As Lapeer stated, I can and MUST purchase the Elected GVWR for what I want\am allowed to haul and tow. Because that sticker doesn't say jack squat about what I can tow.

What you are saying is if the GVWR of my truck is 32,000#, I can only plate it for 32K and if I can legally haul 32K on the truck alone, I can't tow anything. Which is wrong.



Freshwater said:


> they'l tell you all kinds of ****,


I believe they have told you all kinds of crazy **** and you have believed it. I'll await the link, but I am 99.999999% sure what I have said is correct.



Philbilly2 said:


> You have had that happen to you too I am guessing?
> 
> Cop checked the door tag before he even asked for my license, med card, and insurance card...


Our local lawn monkey association has a mock roadside inspection every spring, 2 motor carrier officers and the local Dept of Ag inspector.

Over the years, this is what they have said. What they will do without the tag is check the tyre ratings. And hitch rating for truck and trailer. Because they will also ticket you for being overweight if your tire ratings don't match actual weight no matter what the GVWR of the truck or trailer is. But they will also ticket you for no tag on the door or manufacturer's plate on the trailer. Basically, they are looking for the lowest weight rating and everything else goes from there.


----------



## Freshwater

This will take me a good month to do this, but I will. I used to have both the state and Fed law printed and stored with all the pertinent info highlighted. That was years ago and I the wife since lost threw away alot of stuff.

I do stand corrected they upped the rear axle to 20k. And front axle to 15k or 18k with the right tires. 
700# per inch is what they go by if they can't read your tire rating.

Show me a law that requires a door tag? It doesn't exist in the mi state or Fed law. Not all trucks even came with them, they fall off etc.






















As stated they say **** to get you to just pay the ticket, and you just paid. If you still have that ticket they'l have on it the specific law and provision of that law they'e using. You can then go read that part and see if it' in there (it' not)


----------



## Freshwater

Here' the actual law. Part A gives you the right to upgrade your tires to get to 18k. Again 20k if your under 80k gvw


----------



## Freshwater

Again the actual law. Subsection 12 is what gives weight to the hand book in the previous pic.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Freshwater said:


> Again the actual law. Subsection 12 is what gives weight to the hand book in the previous pic.
> View attachment 177382


I'm doing some research on the GVWR sticker.

BUT, your posts do nothing to disprove my statements. I can't load up a steer axle rated at 5,000# to 12,000#. And the only way Occifer Square Nutz knows the FAWR and\or RAWR and overall GVWR is by the GVWR sticker. And that is how they determine if you are overweight...NOT by maximum allowable weight on any truck on the road.


----------



## Freshwater

So part 7 prevents you from putting larger tires on, but remember part A allows you to put heavier duty tires on. Again this is the actual Michigan law.


----------



## Freshwater

Mark there' nothing in here that mentions anything about axle rating or sticker in the door, NOTHING. it' all based on tires, with caps per axle. All regs must be supported by text in the actual law. Passed by the legislature signed by the governor, otherwise it' nothing.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Freshwater said:


> Mark there' nothing in here that mentions anything about axle rating or sticker in the door, NOTHING. it' all based on tires, with caps per axle. All regs must be supported by text in the actual law. Passed by the legislature signed by the governor, otherwise it' nothing.


Like I said, I'm doing some research. We shall see. If I'm wrong, I will admit it.


----------



## Freshwater

Mark Oomkes said:


> Like I said, I'm doing some research. We shall see. If I'm wrong, I will admit it.


I'l do better I'll buy lunch. Believe me I don't want tickets either.


----------



## Freshwater

Elected weight for your plate is used for a basis to charge your state fees.
You elect to never be over this weight and agree to pay this amount of money.
Don't ever go over because then your stealing fees from the state, it' a HUGE fine.
Has nothing to do with what the truck can haul.
You could love to drive your 40k truck. Change jobs, not want to downgrade the truck. Know youll never weigh more than 26k anymore, you elect at 26k and pay less fees.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

AFAIK there is no 26K EGVW sticker....24, 28, 32, 36, etc.


----------



## Freshwater

Mark Oomkes said:


> AFAIK there is no 26K EGVW sticker....24, 28, 32, 36, etc.


Sure is.


----------



## Defcon 5

25 years....Been pulled over for inspections and been weighed many times.....Pretty simple...First thing they are looking for is overweight on your axles....Second thing they are looking for is overweight on your gross


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> 25 years....Been pulled over for inspections and been weighed many times.....Pretty simple...First thing they are looking for is overweight on your axles....Second thing they are looking for is overweight on your gross


No one asked ewe...


----------



## Freshwater

Defcon 5 said:


> 25 years....Been pulled over for inspections and been weighed many times.....Pretty simple...First thing they are looking for is overweight on your axles....Second thing they are looking for is overweight on your gross


No argument when talking about semis. Your axles and tires are higher than the caps already, why there' caps. Trucks that are well below the caps under 80k are different. Its all about the tires as written in the law.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Freshwater said:


> So part 7 prevents you from putting larger tires on, but remember part A allows you to put heavier duty tires on. Again this is the actual Michigan law.
> View attachment 177386


Can you explain the not to exceed 700BLs per inch to me. At 700LBs per inch at 11inch (STD tires) X 4 your saying my rear axle is good for 30,800LBs ? That means my front axle is good for 15,400LBs and combined would be 46,200LBs on 2 axles.


----------



## Freshwater

LapeerLandscape said:


> Can you explain the not to exceed 700BLs per inch to me. At 700LBs per inch at 11inch (STD tires) X 4 your saying my rear axle is good for 30,800LBs ? That means my front axle is good for 15,400LBs and combined would be 46,200LBs on 2 axles.


Capped at 20k for your rear axle.


----------



## Philbilly2

Woah... this one got pretty deep while I was gone today.

I grazed threw all those screen shots... I guess it is that I honestly just don't care that much to have to read all of that...  

Out of all that I grazed, did you say the cop is checking your door tag to see the tire rating? If so, then that makes your hypothesis hold water...

I only know (from experience) when you are blessed with a side of road DOT, the first thing they look at is your door tag. 

I asked one of the times why he checked the door tag before asking for my license and insurance, he said it was to check the GVWR to see if he needed to ask for my medical card. So... the GVWR does matter to them.


----------



## Philbilly2

Freshwater said:


> Capped at 20k for your rear axle.


I thought I read it was 20K?


----------



## Philbilly2

Woah... voo doo magic?

My screen says one thing, but what I quoted says another...


----------



## Freshwater

Philbilly2 said:


> Woah... this one got pretty deep while I was gone today.
> 
> I grazed threw all those screen shots... I guess it is that I honestly just don't care that much to have to read all of that...
> 
> Out of all that I grazed, did you say the cop is checking your door tag to see the tire rating? If so, then that makes your hypothesis hold water...
> 
> I only know (from experience) when you are blessed with a side of road DOT, the first thing they look
> 
> I asked one of the times why he checked the door tag before asking for my license and insurance, he said it was to check the GVWR to see if he needed to ask for my medical card. So... the GVWR does matter to them.


That' the mi law, please show me where it mentions anything about a door tag having a legal basis for anything


----------



## Freshwater

Philbilly2 said:


> Woah... voo doo magic?
> 
> My screen says one thing, but what I quoted says another...
> 
> View attachment 177395


I goofed lol.


----------



## Freshwater

There is a law that makes removing any vin numbers. What does the door tag have? 
Nothing to do with legal loading. Its not even in the Fed law. I've
Read it. Ill be getting to that its big. Take me at least a month to re research.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Freshwater said:


> Capped at 20k for your rear axle.


Yes 700LBs per inch only comes into play when getting an overweight permit.

How do they determine if the truck is rated at 26,000LBs either above or below to determine CDL or non CDL driver without looking at a door tag?


----------



## Freshwater

LapeerLandscape said:


> Yes 700LBs per inch only comes into play when getting an overweight permit.
> 
> How do they determine if the truck is rated at 26,000LBs either above or below to determine CDL or non CDL driver without looking at a door tag?


That' not what that law said.

Licensing is different. That' all in the federal law. I'll Get into all that.
The loading text matches the Fed law exact.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Freshwater said:


> That' not what that law said.
> 
> Licensing is different. That' all in the federal law. I'll Get into all that.
> The loading text matches the Fed law exact.


I dont think you could ever reach 700LB per inch on your tires without exceeding your 20,000LB max per axle without getting an overweight permit.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Is this legal? Should we check the door tag.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

LapeerLandscape said:


> Is this legal? Should we check the door tag.
> View attachment 177401


Nah...its a Chebbie


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Mark Oomkes said:


> Nah...its a Chebbie


Like a rock....Thumbs Up


----------



## 1olddogtwo

Very humorous thread.

How many here actually have a CDL?

As some of you know, I returned from California pulling our 45ft gooseneck trailer last week. AZ, NM and OK all did full DOT Inspections. AZ wrote me for some BS. I was short of 40K. All the care about was my fuel and weight permits. They did level 2 inspections. My front axle was 5k, drive axle 15K and trailer was 19K. They never checked my door tags, tires, or anything. It was just about the money.

It was a learning experience to say the least.


----------



## Randall Ave

LapeerLandscape said:


> Is this legal? Should we check the door tag.
> View attachment 177401


Theres so much wrong there I don't know where to start.


----------



## Randall Ave

Mark Oomkes said:


> Nah...its a Chebbie


Now, if it was a Dodge with a Cummingggs.


----------



## 1olddogtwo

I should add our brand new 650 24ft failed inspection do BS in OK with the DOT number. It's plated for 26, was 24 and I had to by weight permits, same with our 16ft box, it's plated for 16, weighted 13... had to by permits.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

1olddogtwo said:


> I should add our brand new 650 24ft failed inspection do BS in OK with the DOT number. It's plated for 26, was 24 and I had to by weight permits, same with our 16ft box, it's plated for 16, weighted 13... had to by permits.


Weight permits for the trailer? You have to buy fuel permits?


----------



## LapeerLandscape

1olddogtwo said:


> Very humorous thread.
> 
> How many here actually have a CDL?
> 
> As some of you know, I returned from California pulling our 45ft gooseneck trailer last week. AZ, NM and OK all did full DOT Inspections. AZ wrote me for some BS. I was short of 40K. All the care about was my fuel and weight permits. They did level 2 inspections. My front axle was 5k, drive axle 15K and trailer was 19K. They never checked my door tags, tires, or anything. It was just about the money.
> 
> It was a learning experience to say the least.


I have my CDL class A. No doubles, I want no part of that.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

LapeerLandscape said:


> I have my CDL.


I have a CPL.


----------



## 1olddogtwo

LapeerLandscape said:


> Weight permits for the trailer? You have to buy fuel permits?


Yeah.....cuz I didn't have IFTA stickers. And they said I weighed 48K.....robbers.

550 plated for 24K and trailer plated for 32K....56 total. Since I don't have *Apportioned Plates, I have buy permits for each state I cross into..., robbers
*


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Mark Oomkes said:


> I have a CPL.


Commercial Plowers License...


----------



## Randall Ave

I have my CDl, its class A, with a doubles, triples endorsement, for the heavy chicks.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

LapeerLandscape said:


> Commercial Plowers License...


Yes....


----------



## Freshwater

LapeerLandscape said:


> Is this legal? Should we check the door tag.
> View attachment 177401


I see what you did there, pretty sure I've been saying the door tag doesn't matter legally.
Yes hes overloaded his tires, his axle, his engine and everything else you can think of lol. Wow.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Freshwater said:


> I see what you did there, pretty sure I've been saying the door tag doesn't matter legally.
> Yes hes overloaded his tires, his axle, his engine and everything else you can think of lol. Wow.


I just wanted to put a little humor to the page....Thumbs Up

I had a pic on my tablet of my 2500 gmc pulling the pup from our gravel train but I lost it last year. Not on the road!!!


----------



## 1olddogtwo

I still axle capacity left


----------



## Freshwater

1olddogtwo said:


> Yeah.....cuz I didn't have IFTA stickers. And they said I weighed 48K.....robbers.
> 
> 550 plated for 24K and trailer plated for 32K....56 total. Since I don't have *Apportioned Plates, I have buy permits for each state I cross into..., robbers*


Yes interstate is much more complicated. 
Guys started fighting their tickets and it was costing the leos too much money. They created the IFTA sticker to bring in extra money, kinda like ticket fighting slush fund.

I'll totally admit I have alot to learn about interstate regs.


----------



## 1olddogtwo

Yea....now for the ELD learning curve..... Joy


----------



## LapeerLandscape

1olddogtwo said:


> Yea....now for the ELD learning curve..... Joy


You have to have a certain number of trucks on the road (I think its 18) for it to be mandatory to have ELDs.


----------



## Freshwater

I'm not posting these because I'm mad at anybody. These conversations help all of us. Right now there's guys digging into things. If I'm wrong I want to know believe me. It frustrates me when I hear horror stories, and I've read the text of the laws, and they don't match. I have a CDL B, the training is less intensive than A, but training none the less.


----------



## Freshwater

Randall Ave said:


> Theres so much wrong there I don't know where to start.


Taking a second look at that pic, is he trying to use one of those aftermarket trailer towing contraptions?





Looks like he has a really long contraption under that trailer.


----------



## LapeerLandscape

Freshwater said:


> I'm not posting these because I'm mad at anybody. These conversations help all of us. Right now there's guys digging into things. If I'm wrong I want to know believe me. It frustrates me when I hear horror stories, and I've read the text of the laws, and they don't match. I have a CDL B, the training is less intensive than A, but training none the less.


It doesnt matter what the law reads, the DOT officer is going to do/write what he wants and keep you tied up on the side of the road for as long as that takes.


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## Defcon 5

Randall Ave said:


> I have my CDl, its class A, with a doubles, triples endorsement, for the heavy chicks.


I have my CDL A with Doubles-Triples...Hazmat and Air Brake endorsement


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## Defcon 5

1olddogtwo said:


> Yeah.....cuz I didn't have IFTA stickers. And they said I weighed 48K.....robbers.
> 
> 550 plated for 24K and trailer plated for 32K....56 total. Since I don't have *Apportioned Plates, I have buy permits for each state I cross into..., robbers
> 
> *


They must have seen you coming from the state line with dollar signs in their eyes....Did you keep track of mileage in each state for fuel tax reporting???....Oklahoma is a stickler for the IFTA permit


----------



## BossPlow2010

Defcon 5 said:


> I have my CDL A with Doubles-Triples...Hazmat and Air Brake endorsement


You mean the " A" doesn't stand for air brake 
Lol


----------



## Freshwater

LapeerLandscape said:


> It doesnt matter what the law reads, the DOT officer is going to do/write what he wants and keep you tied up on the side of the road for as long as that takes.


No argument there.


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> I have my CDL A with Doubles-Triples...Hazmat and Air Brake endorsement


Ewe dew????


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## Defcon 5

BossPlow2010 said:


> You mean the " A" doesn't stand for air brake
> Lol


It's a Joke....If you have been around a while back you would get it


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Ewe dew????


Did you also know the A in CDL doesn't stand for Airbrake????


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> It's a Joke....If you have been around a while back you would get it


Get watt???


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Get watt???


Nevermind


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Did you also know the A in CDL doesn't stand for Airbrake????


It doesn't???


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## BossPlow2010

Defcon 5 said:


> It's a Joke....If you have been around a while would get it


I've been here for a little while, but you still have boogers older than me


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## Randall Ave

1olddogtwo said:


> Yea....now for the ELD learning curve..... Joy


You running electronic logs also?


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## On a Call

Randall Ave said:


> Now, if it was a Dodge with a Cummingggs.


We could drive it to Florida and back.


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## On a Call

Mark Oomkes said:


> I have a CPL.


Ditto


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## Mark Oomkes

What's a CDL???


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## LapeerLandscape

Defcon 5 said:


> It's a Joke....If you have been around a while back you would get it


It was almost as good as the concrete discussion.


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## On a Call

Mark Oomkes said:


> What's a CDL???


Commercial Drivers License
Also my CCW and others as well 

None taught me to know much about what you guys know. Thank for the good discussion.


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## jomama45

Defcon 5 said:


> I have my CDL A with Doubles-Triples...Hazmat and Air Brake endorsement


There's no such thing as an "air brake endorsement ", perhaps you meant to type "air break endorsement "?


----------



## On a Call

Okay glad you guys know are certified and knowledgeable. This truck does not have air brakes set up just like my truck however a bit more complicated but non the less...hydro all the way.

Any thoughts on this aspect ?


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## On a Call

PS....

What color should I paint it ??


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## Philbilly2

Freshwater said:


> That' the mi law, please show me where it mentions anything about a door tag having a legal basis for anything


So an old friend who has helped me with CDL things before enlightened me on what is missing here... Thanks buddy... I will wear my tin foil hat just for you today! :waving:

Federal motor vehicle title49 us code,
this includes the requirement that you not exceed the GVwr, gawr, gvwr this Regardless of whether you are operating for hire for not..

Regardless of the number of tires, there rating, axles or what the trailer is licensed for #### wise you cannot exceed the GVWr posted on the door tag by the manufacture by federal law


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Nah...its a Chebbie


Mark is right, chevys are not legally allowed to pull those little trailers...

Something about so much torque and the king pin shearing?


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## Philbilly2

On a Call said:


> PS....
> 
> What color should I paint it ??


Ha... your thread got the letters CDL posted in it...

it is no longer about your truck.... :laugh:


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## FredG

LapeerLandscape said:


> It was almost as good as the concrete discussion.


Meh, Not much fun without me lol.


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## FredG

On a Call said:


> Okay glad you guys know are certified and knowledgeable. This truck does not have air brakes set up just like my truck however a bit more complicated but non the less...hydro all the way.
> 
> Any thoughts on this aspect ?


Juice brakes suk, You will be okay in that little truck.


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## leolkfrm

jomama45 said:


> There's no such thing as an "air brake endorsement ", perhaps you meant to type "air break endorsement "?


yes there is, usually shows up on a class b cdl


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## FredG

I don't even know why you would need a air brake endorsement. What do you have to know? That if your loosing air get off the road lol.


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## LapeerLandscape

FredG said:


> I don't even know why you would need a air brake endorsement. What do you have to know? That if your loosing air get off the road lol.


You should go to the DMV and retake the test just for fun.


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## jomama45

leolkfrm said:


> yes there is, usually shows up on a class b cdl


Oh, ok. There's 6 endorsements that I know of, and each is listed on your license as one letter. Mind sharing with the class what the initial for the supposed "air brake endorsement " is?


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## Defcon 5

LapeerLandscape said:


> You should go to the DMV and retake the test just for fun.


Fred in th DMV.....Please wear a body cam


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## Mark Oomkes

jomama45 said:


> There's no such thing as an "air brake endorsement ", perhaps you meant to type "air break endorsement "?


By jove I think you've got it!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

On a Call said:


> Okay glad you guys know are certified and knowledgeable. This truck does not have air brakes set up just like my truck however a bit more complicated but non the less...hydro all the way.
> 
> Any thoughts on this aspect ?


Depends on which system is on it.


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## Mark Oomkes

leolkfrm said:


> yes there is, usually shows up on a class b cdl


nevermind


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> So an old friend who has helped me with CDL things before enlightened me on what is missing here... Thanks buddy... I will wear my tin foil hat just for you today! :waving:
> 
> Federal motor vehicle title49 us code,
> this includes the requirement that you not exceed the GVwr, gawr, gvwr this Regardless of whether you are operating for hire for not..
> 
> Regardless of the number of tires, there rating, axles or what the trailer is licensed for #### wise you cannot exceed the GVWr posted on the door tag by the manufacture by federal law


I was getting numerous texts regarding this yesterday but I was bizzie...and the text was so small I couldn't read it.

But it is eggzactly what he was saying.


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## LapeerLandscape

Mark Oomkes said:


> I can assure you there is no such thing as an air brake or air break endorsement. Absolutely, positively, 1000% guaranteed there is no such thing.


I'm going to need more coffee and maybe a 5 hour energy drink.


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## Mark Oomkes

LapeerLandscape said:


> I'm going to need more coffee and maybe a 5 hour energy drink.


Carp...was hoping I edited in time. No one was supposed to quote me as Joe has this one in hand.


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## Mark Oomkes

Anywho...I have a CDL and CPL-A. I can carry an air gun.

Just because one has a CDL does not mean one knows every applicable law and quote chapter and verse. Sometimes one "knows" things without knowing where to prove it. For instance, installing wiring in a house and skipping the circuit breaker. Hooking a discharge pipe from the crapper to the supply line coming into the building. Looking down the barrel of a loaded firearm. Stuff like that.


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## Philbilly2

jomama45 said:


> Oh, ok. There's 6 endorsements that I know of, and each is listed on your license as one letter. Mind sharing with the class what the initial for the supposed "air brake endorsement " is?


7 actually

And yes, air brake is not one of them


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## FredG

Defcon 5 said:


> Fred in th DMV.....Please wear a body cam


I'm cool at my DMV, The full figured Women Boss likes me, Half the time she takes me to the side and takes my paper work and it's over, I buy her a few drinks when I see here out for dinner lol.


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## Randall Ave

Since I took the test, im sure it has changed. I know the one guy the township hired failed five times before he finally passed.


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## FredG

Don't see no air brake endorsement on mine, I got the P for limo and bus.


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## John_DeereGreen

Randall Ave said:


> Since I took the test, im sure it has changed. I know the one guy the township hired failed five times before he finally passed.


He's probably only breathing because it's a subconscious reaction, too.


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## FredG

Randall Ave said:


> Since I took the test, im sure it has changed. I know the one guy the township hired failed five times before he finally passed.


Wow, Not that I'm special I walked through the written and road course.


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## Defcon 5

Philbilly2 said:


> 7 actually
> 
> And yes, air brake is not one of them


Is Too


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## jomama45

Defcon 5 said:


> Is Too


Some things never change, LOL............................


----------



## Defcon 5

Where's Cretebaby when you need him


----------



## Mike_PS

I'm thinking this truck (and thread) "can't handle anymore" so either back on topic or we can close it out


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## Randall Ave

FredG said:


> Wow, Not that I'm special I walked through the written and road course.


When I did the pretrip test. The guy said I wasn't giving him enough information. So then I gave him part numbers, explained what each thing did. At the first trailer wheel. He told me to shut the ----; up. Get in the truck and start driving. I was driving him nuts. I passed.


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## Philbilly2

Defcon 5 said:


> Is Too


It is a restriction, not an endorsement...


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## Philbilly2

Randall Ave said:


> When I did the pretrip test. The guy said I wasn't giving him enough information. So then I gave him part numbers, explained what each thing did. At the first trailer wheel. He told me to shut the ----; up. Get in the truck and start driving. I was driving him nuts. I passed.


Lady missed the step when I got my B Class Farm. Fell right on her hind end... yelled at me that this truck was unsafe as there should be an additional step there. I still passed.


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## FredG

Philbilly2 said:


> It is a restriction, not an endorsement...


Youes be correct lol, It's plain as day on mine, For NY anyways.


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## On a Call

So should I have my guy pick up a CDL ? If so, which ?? For the truck posted ??


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## FredG

Philbilly2 said:


> Lady missed the step when I got my B Class Farm. Fell right on her hind end... yelled at me that this truck was unsafe as there should be an additional step there. I still passed.


This guy here I had try to trick me when I had to take mine in a motor coach. Tried to trick me after making a turn and a not so visible RR track. I hit the brakes and I could swear he chuckled but I wasn't looking back.


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## On a Call

jomama45 said:


> Some things never change, LOL............................


Good choice in music


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## FredG

On a Call said:


> So should I have my guy pick up a CDL ? If so, which ?? For the truck posted ??


Did you buy it? Or did I miss something? If your talking about the small GM most likely no.


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## On a Call

FredG said:


> This guy here I had try to trick me when I had to take mine in a motor coach. Tried to trick me after making a turn and a not so visible RR track. I hit the brakes and I could swear he chuckled but I wasn't looking back.


Was he sitting behind you


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## Mark Oomkes

On a Call said:


> So should I have my guy pick up a CDL ? If so, which ?? For the truck posted ??


For the truck in question...no, unless you're going to tow a trailer with it.


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## On a Call

FredG said:


> Did you buy it? Or did I miss something? If your talking about the small GM most likely no.


OH,...
I thought I mentioned it.
A much larger state dump truck. 
I need to find out what model it is but it is a beast. Most likely too large for anything other than 10 acre or larger lots.


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## FredG

On a Call said:


> Was he sitting behind you


Yes in a motor coach everything is behind you, Even the front axle.


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## On a Call

Mark Oomkes said:


> For the truck in question...no, unless you're going to tow a trailer with it.


No trailer
Well...that is however a good question Mark.
If I am towing a 3500 pound trailer...one I carry our skidsteer on. Do we need a CDL for that ??
Is it all combined weight ?


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## On a Call

FredG said:


> Yes in a motor coach everything is behind you, Even the front axle.


LOL
Got it


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## FredG

On a Call said:


> OH,...
> I thought I mentioned it.
> A much larger state dump truck.
> I need to find out what model it is but it is a beast. Most likely too large for anything other than 10 acre or larger lots.


Yes than for a bigger minci truck. Why don't you get your own CDL in case the driver sells you out, sick whatever. If your in a mochine probably easier to find a operator then a driver that knows how to spread.


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## FredG

https://dmv.ny.gov/forms/mv500c.pdf


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## On a Call

FredG said:


> Yes than for a bigger minci truck. Why don't you get your own CDL in case the driver sells you out, sick whatever. If your in a mochine probably easier to find a operator then a driver that knows how to spread.


10 4

Makes sense....


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## leolkfrm

yup i misspoke..it is a restriction....:hammerhead::hammerhead: i need to retire from snow again

*CDL Endorsements*
After you have satisfied the requirements for a Class A, B, or C commercial driver's license, you may also need to pass additional written and road driving tests to operate special types of commercial motor vehicles.

Below is a list of the federal endorsement codes you may need in addition to your CDL and what tests will be required by your state.


*H Endorsement*: Required for vehicles containing* hazardous materials*.
Requires a *written knowledge test*.

*N Endorsement*: Permits you to operate *tank vehicles*.
Requires an additional *written knowledge test*.

*P Endorsement*: Allows you to operate a vehicle that carries* over a specified number of passengers* (the exact number may depend on your state).
Requires *written knowledge* *AND* *road skills tests*.

*S Endorsement*: Permits the operation of a* school bus*.
Requires *written knowledge AND road skills tests*.
*ALSO* requires separate application forms, fees, and background checks. See our guide to passenger and school bus endorsements.

*T Endorsement*: Allows you to tow a* double or triple trailer*.
Requires an additional *knowledge test*.

*X Endorsement*: Combination endorsement for *HAZMAT and tank vehicles*.
Requires a *written knowledge test*.

Check with your state to determine the exact process required for adding an endorsement to your commercial driver license.

*CDL Restrictions*
A restriction placed on your commercial driver's license may keep you from operating certain types of vehicles.

Common federal CDL restriction codes are listed below:


*E Restriction*: Prohibits you from operating vehicles with a *manual transmission*.
Occurs when you take your skills test in a CMV with automatic transmission.

*L Restriction*: Prohibits operation of a vehicle containing a* full air brake system*.
Occurs if you:
Fail the Air Brakes Knowledge Test.
Incorrectly identify air brake system components.
Fail to properly conduct an air brakes system check.
Take the road skill test in a CMV lacking a full air brake system.


*Z Restriction*: Also prohibits you from driving a CMV with *full air brakes*.
Occurs if you tested in a vehicle with an air over hydraulic brake system.

*M Restriction*: Restricts you to operating a *Class B or C passenger vehicle/school bus ONLY*.
Occurs if you possess a Class A CDL, but earned your passenger/school bus endorsement driving a Class B vehicle.

*N Restriction*: Restricts you to operating a *Class C passenger vehicle/school bus ONLY*.
Occurs when you possess a Class B CDL, but earned your passenger/school bus endorsement driving a Class C vehicle.

*Restriction*: Prohibits you from driving *any Class A vehicle that has a fifth wheel connection*.
Occurs when you take your skills test in a CMV that has a non-fifth wheel connection, such as a pintle hook.

*V Restriction*: Indicates that a *medical variance* has been reported by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA).
This *may* occur, for instance, if you have a vision or diabetic waiver issued by the FMCSA 


they should also show motorcycle endorsement, at least in ny


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## Philbilly2

Maybe Illinois is different than what state you posted, but we have 7 endorsments here...

*The following is a list of endorsements you can get on your CDL:*

Hazardous Material (Class H).
Tank Vehicles (Class N).
Passenger-Carrying Vehicle (Class P).
School Bus (Class S).
Towing a Double or Triple Trailer (Class T).
Charter Bus (Class C).
Combination tank vehicle and hazardous materials endorsement (Class X)


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## jomama45

On a Call said:


> So should I have my guy pick up a CDL ? If so, which ?? For the truck posted ??


It's not a bag of chips from the convenience store. You need to weigh all of the pros and cons of owning a truck that heavy, DOT compliance, drug & alcohol policy, etc...



Philbilly2 said:


> Maybe Illinois is different than what state you posted, but we have 7 endorsments here...


Let's just say everything tends to be "unique" in Illannoy, especially the residents........


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## Philbilly2

jomama45 said:


> I
> Let's just say everything tends to be "unique" in Illannoy, especially the residents........


Easy....


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## LapeerLandscape

On a Call said:


> No trailer
> Well...that is however a good question Mark.
> If I am towing a 3500 pound trailer...one I carry our skidsteer on. Do we need a CDL for that ??
> Is it all combined weight ?


What is the GVW of the trailer, if I recall if the truck is under 26,000 and the trailer is 10,000 GVW or more you will need a CDL


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## Randall Ave

LapeerLandscape said:


> What is the GVW of the trailer, if I recall if the truck is under 26,000 and the trailer is 10,000 GVW or more you will need a CDL


Yes, if the trailer is over 10,000, you will need a CDL. So the cops tell me. But a lot of the local cops do not know the commercial vehicle laws.


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## Philbilly2

Randall Ave said:


> Yes, if the trailer is over 10,000, you will need a CDL. So the cops tell me. But a lot of the local cops do not know the commercial vehicle laws.


None of them do...

My BIL is a cop and I ask him truck questions all the time.

I get nothing...


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## On a Call

LapeerLandscape said:


> What is the GVW of the trailer, if I recall if the truck is under 26,000 and the trailer is 10,000 GVW or more you will need a CDL


It is under 10,000 do not remember and not here. However when I plated it it seems I remember 5800


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## LapeerLandscape

On a Call said:


> It is under 10,000 do not remember and not here. However when I plated it it seems I remember 5800


Not the weight of the trailer, the GVW what it can carry. There has to be a tag on it.


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## On a Call

I will check into that


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## On a Call

Okay...another question 

Say the trailer and pay load are 12000 pounds it would require a CDL...but what if you never load it to capacity do you still have to carry a CDL ??

Better yet.... Say I have a trailer that can carry 12000 pounds. It weighs 5000 and I load it with 4,500 pounds of rum, tequila and Jim Beam. Am I allow to drive it in Michigan or Ohio ?

What if it was PBR...am I allowed into Canada ??


----------



## John_DeereGreen

Doesn't matter what it does weigh. It does matter what it legally can weigh.


----------



## jomama45

On a Call said:


> Okay...another question
> 
> Say the trailer and pay load are 12000 pounds it would require a CDL...but what if you never load it to capacity do you still have to carry a CDL ??
> 
> Better yet.... Say I have a trailer that can carry 12000 pounds. It weighs 5000 and I load it with 4,500 pounds of rum, tequila and Jim Beam. Am I allow to drive it in Michigan or Ohio ?
> 
> What if it was PBR...am I allowed into Canada ??


Who cares, you've already sent one of your Yeomen down to the 7/11 for a CDL, you have nothing to worry about, sit back and relax.......


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## BossPlow2010

Here you go!

http://bfy.tw/GOuZ


----------



## On a Call

John_DeereGreen said:


> Doesn't matter what it does weigh. It does matter what it legally can weigh.


So I bribe with the Rum and run with Jim


----------



## On a Call

BossPlow2010 said:


> Here you go!
> 
> http://bfy.tw/GOuZ


cool beans BP
So do you run with handheld or joy stick ?


----------



## LapeerLandscape

On a Call said:


> Okay...another question
> 
> Say the trailer and pay load are 12000 pounds it would require a CDL...but what if you never load it to capacity do you still have to carry a CDL ??
> 
> Better yet.... Say I have a trailer that can carry 12000 pounds. It weighs 5000 and I load it with 4,500 pounds of rum, tequila and Jim Beam. Am I allow to drive it in Michigan or Ohio ?
> 
> What if it was PBR...am I allowed into Canada ??


This is no differnet then if you have a semi that can carry 80,000 but its empty and weighs less than 26,000 can you legally drive it without a CDL? No


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## Defcon 5

May I suggest on call.....If your planning on getting into class 5-6-7 trucks....Just get a CDL B at the minimum and be done with it...


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## On a Call

Defcon 5 said:


> May I suggest on call.....If your planning on getting into class 5-6-7 trucks....Just get a CDL B at the minimum and be done with it...


I think I will
How difficult are they to obtain ?
Both the physical and testing


----------



## Defcon 5

On a Call said:


> I think I will
> How difficult are they to obtain ?
> Both the physical and testing


Not difficult at all if you read the book and be able to do a pretrip without fumbling....

The medical they have tightened up a little...

As for the truck....There are plenty of International automatics out there in decent shape at a decent price....Ryan...JDG have built them as recent...They can point out any pitfalls....Dont try to save a dollar on the truck...It will cost you ten on the back side


----------



## Philbilly2

LapeerLandscape said:


> This is no differnet then if you have a semi that can carry 80,000 but its empty and weighs less than 26,000 can you legally drive it without a CDL? No


Just for clarification...

You cannot drive said semi without an "A Class" license, but you most Shirley _can_ drive it without a CDL. Thumbs Up


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## FredG

Defcon 5 said:


> May I suggest on call.....If your planning on getting into class 5-6-7 trucks....Just get a CDL B at the minimum and be done with it...


That's what I suggested above lol, Meaning we all did that, No? Buy a truck you have to be able to drive it.


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## John_DeereGreen

Defcon 5 said:


> Not difficult at all if you read the book and be able to do a pretrip without fumbling....
> 
> The medical they have tightened up a little...
> 
> As for the truck....There are plenty of International automatics out there in decent shape at a decent price....Ryan...JDG have built them as recent...They can point out any pitfalls....Dont try to save a dollar on the truck...It will cost you ten on the back side


Stay pre DPF. So 07 or older. EGR started in 05? Air brakes are just about a must in my opinion. I've posted total gross of ours in the past. No way would I want to have that weight on juice brakes.

Chopping the frame and moving the axle are easy. Time consuming, but easy. Air brakes greatly simplify the process, but I've been told juice brakes aren't a whole lot worse if you have the brake line tools. I didn't want juice brakes so it was irrelevant to me.

Spreader subframe and mounting the spreader is easy, as is installing a Boss bracket. You can do wha Ryan and I did, and build your own push beam to run the regular pickup plows, or run a 10' HD plow and not modify a push beam. I wasn't willing to have an oddball plow, so we did the first option after I talked to Ryan and saw/heard the success and him having no issues doing so after several seasons.

The only things I had an outside vendor do was the hydraulics install and changing color from yellow to white. There are numerous trucks on CL right now for 8-12k. Get a heavy truck mechanic and pick the one(s) you like the most, and let him go over them with a fine tooth comb. These trucks are a lot more durable, but when there are issues, a lot more expensive.

Unless I need a 450/550 size truck for some kind of summer work, I would rather have one of these. You've got a 33k gvw truck derated to 26k, air brakes, sit up higher so it's much easier to see, just all the way around a lot nicer to carry lots of salt and still be able to plow. There's really no reason a mow crew with a bigger enclosed trailer can't run one of these in the summer in place of a 450/550. Looks a little overkill, but that to me doesn't make a bit of difference. Provided it is presentable (doesn't look like a pile of junk) does it really matter if the truck appears to be a little too big?

And you can have a truck fully equipped ready to go, for no more than just the chassis cost of a 2017 450/550 diesel. Example: 4300 used box truck 12k. Sell box for 1k. Hydros (I did electric over hydraulic, stainless reservoir etc) 7k, you can save some pretty good coin here by going with steel tank and manual spreader valve if needed. There are numerous used v boxes that are appropriate for these chassis anywhere from 3-6k or a new one at 10k. New DXT and wings, 6.5k. Truck side mount and wiring 1k. Minimizer fenders $500. Total of 36000 with a new spreader for the main components. We have about 50 man hours in doing everything we did, 1k in hardware and steel. My mechanic makes $20 an hour, figure with labor burden and shop supplies $30 an hour, $1500.

Total investment of about 38-39k, and that's saying you buy a brand new spreader, brand new v plow, and the hydraulic system is electric over hydraulic controls. Or you can buy one of Maclawnco's for 40k done and ready to salt, and add your own plow if you felt the need.

If you decide to set one up, and have questions or need help, don't hesitate to let me know.

@TheXpress2002 @alfman


----------

