# Cyclone Blower Review



## NickSnow&Mow

Well fellas the snow has been flying here and dad has put about 120 hours on the setup so far. Tractor is a 2018 4052r with deluxe cab and nokian snow tires (which are awesome). Here are a few of my thoughts for those of you have asked.

Pros

1. This blower unquestionably leaves significantly less snow on the road. Presumably this is mainly because it doesn't have a back scraper but the design definitely doesn't hurt from that stand point.

2. This thing will throw snow for a mile, it really does process the snow and has great control of it.

3. The 82" is the perfect size for this tractor. The 52hp is sufficient and I will most likely be purchasing the 52r over the 66r from now on which translates to significant savings on the purchase price of the tractor.

4. The design is simple which is beautiful, way less crap going on. the blower is sleek and has no unnecessary nooks and crannies like the pronovosts do meaning less snow and salt sits on the blower which is great. having no hydraulic backscraper is great because it requires no extra remotes meaning you can run this blower with the stock remotes made for the loader (big savings on the tractor).

5. The blower is slightly lighter than a comparable old school inverted and I believe sits more of the weight closer to the tractor which is always good for the 3pt hitch arms (lost one on the 3046r last year).

6. Galvanization is sweet. As far as I know Jim is the only one in the industry doing that. Rust sucks, and i'd like to avoid it.

7. The fact that the blower is flat at the back is actually very useful. The thing will plow through drifts and can actually be used like a box blade pushing backwards for certain weird properties. Dad uses it for pushing backwards on certain small L shaped driveways in older areas.

Cons

1. The paint on mine is not good. It chips easily and is nowhere close to the quality of paint on my Pronovost blowers.

2. The chute honestly sucks. The opening for the chute is tiny and plugs very easily. This blower does not perform well in heavy wet snow (this is being fixed so no worries). Dad has opened up the rear door a dozen times by now. I have also noticed that the deflector has too much play in it. The deflector flutters which is super annoying, it has too much play in it and is not nearly as nice as the pronovost chute. The chute seems to have a certain point where it almost snaps open rather than one smooth motion all the way through.

3. The fit and finish is sufficient, it is just a snowblower after all however you can tell it's not made with the same production quality as a Pronovost or Normand. For example there are some visible grinder marks under the paint and the occasional ugly weld. I will also say that the hydraulics for both the deflector and rotation came with no restriction so those things moved crazy fast (this is being fixed on the new ones).

4. Having no back scraper means no down pressure, which is not a huge deal but it was nice to lift the blower right off the ground and scrape sometimes.

I spoke with Jim today and he is actually going to replace the blower for those of us who experienced these issues, I am very impressed with this. He really stands behind is product and willing to do whatever it takes to show he has the best blower on the market. Since he is going to address the clogging problem I really have nothing but good things to say about the blower. The new one will be exactly the same only difference being I'm going to get this one galvanized. All in all this blower is a winner boys. Pronovost and Normand are still stuck in 1980 with their silly backwards mounted regular blowers. The cyclone is the way of the future and I look forward to purchasing many, many more.


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## seville009

With respect to the clogging issues, you’re probably going to run into that with just about any blower. The only thing you csn really do (that I know of) is run it st wide open throttle snd take smaller bites in the heavier snow. With my skidsteer, sometimes I can shake the clog loose.


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## boutch

Great review Nick. What are they going to do to improve its performance in the wet heavy snow?

Did you use it yet this year in 15-20 cm snow event?


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## CAT 245ME

One big plus with the Cyclone is not needing a rear scrapper blade. I can understand why Neige didn't use them on his blowers, I wish I could ditch mine to be honest. But you need to get as much snow away from the garage doors to keep people happy or you run the risk of loosing them to someone else.


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## NickSnow&Mow

seville009 said:


> With respect to the clogging issues, you're probably going to run into that with just about any blower. The only thing you csn really do (that I know of) is run it st wide open throttle snd take smaller bites in the heavier snow. With my skidsteer, sometimes I can shake the clog loose.


I would agree, but the way they are currently made the clogging is much worse than any other blower. It has to do with the fact that the blower processes the snow and then tries to send it through a tiny little hole before the chute which works amazing in light snow but robs the tractorof power in wet heavy stuff. It has plugged probably 12 times this year and my pronovosts are yet to plug.


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## NickSnow&Mow

boutch said:


> Great review Nick. What are they going to do to improve its performance in the wet heavy snow?
> 
> Did you use it yet this year in 15-20 cm snow event?


The most is been out in so far is about 15cm of light snow. Dad says It handled it very well and that the 52hp machine was sufficient. Now if that had been a sloppy wet snow fall we would have run into serious issues. Jim is simply going to open up the hole where the snow comes up to the chute. They already did this on their larger blowers so it is proven to make a big difference. He is also going to make some otherimprovements like adding flow limiters and cleaning up the slop in the chute.


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## Mark Oomkes

Link please...


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## Mark Oomkes

seville009 said:


> With respect to the clogging issues, you're probably going to run into that with just about any blower. The only thing you csn really do (that I know of) is run it st wide open throttle snd take smaller bites in the heavier snow. With my skidsteer, sometimes I can shake the clog loose.


It depends on the chute opening, but yes, they all can clog. But some are more prone to it than others. Never had an S Houle, but Herm and another operator tells me they are the worst. In my experience, the Pronovosts will clog before the Normands.

I'd love to try one once the bugs are worked oot.


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## boutch

https://www.cycloneblowers.ca

Here the link. Pretty much a one stage blower design with a fan to trow the snow further.


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## UpNorthMowing

Ive seen a company around here, that had about 15 tractors with those blowers, they weren't painted.


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## NickSnow&Mow

UpNorthMowing said:


> Ive seen a company around here, that had about 15 tractors with those blowers, they weren't painted.


Where are you located?


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## UpNorthMowing

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Where are you located?


eastern Ontario


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## Mark Oomkes

Looking at those pics that discharge chute oof the blower is aboot half the diameter it needs to be. Could explain why it blows it so far but distance is the least of my worries.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Looking at those pics that discharge chute oof the blower is aboot half the diameter it needs to be. Could explain why it blows it so far but distance is the least of my worries.


THats right. It explains why it handles light snow so we'll and will toss it a mile but can't really process the heavy stuff.


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## Herm Witte

Nick, it seems a bit premature to say Normand and and Pronovost are stuck in the eighties when the Cyclone seems to have significant clogging issues and a couple others issues as you mentioned. Nothing like a proven track record. Cyclone may well get there but not as of yet. Apparently.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Herm Witte said:


> Nick, it seems a bit premature to say Normand and and Pronovost are stuck in the eighties when the Cyclone seems to have significant clogging issues and a couple others issues as you mentioned. Nothing like a proven track record. Cyclone may well get there but not as of yet. Apparently.


 You're right Herm, the clogging issue is significant but considering the fact that Jim is going to replace the blower for free after opening up the hole on the new one I'm confident saying it is a far better design than the others and it's surprising that someone didn't come up with something like it sooner.


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## UpNorthMowing

He owns his own Snow blowing Company too.


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## boutch

NickSnow&Mow said:


> You're right Herm, the clogging issue is significant but considering the fact that Jim is going to replace the blower for free after opening up the hole on the new one I'm confident saying it is a far better design than the others and it's surprising that someone didn't come up with something like it sooner.


Well I wouldnt say it is that new in concept. ARTIX and Avalanche snowblower are pretty similar in some way beside being be directional.


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## NickSnow&Mow

boutch said:


> Well I wouldnt say it is that new in concept. ARTIX and Avalanche snowblower are pretty similar in some way beside being be directional.


True, Jim worked with the guy who made the artix, apparently it has some pretty serious quality issues.


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## boutch

NickSnow&Mow said:


> True, Jim worked with the guy who made the artix, apparently it has some pretty serious quality issues.


Ya Artix has way to many moving parts and not very popular. You would need 4 functions to run them.


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## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> True, Jim worked with the guy who made the artix, apparently it has some pretty serious quality issues.


I'm almost certain that Neige tried using Artix blowers, but I don't remember him posting any feedback on them.


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## Neige

I still have four brand new 2014 Artix if anyone is interested. Priced to sell at 5 grand. (Enough said ) Michel Girard invented the Artix from the Avalanche snow blower. He had a partner from Ontario who’s name escapes me, but they were also selling a hydraulic wing plow. I coiuld research it but its really not that important. That went sour, and then Jim hooked up with him I think for two years but it may have only been one. Once again that did not work out, so Jim went out on his own. Jim has been in the snow industry longer than me, and has built up many companies which he sold off, and then started up a new company’s He owns Capital Snow Blowing around Ottawa, and I think he has over 3000 clients. So Jim definitely understands the limitations of the inverted, and has been developing a better Artix. From what I have seen and heard, a better inverted type of blower is emerging in the market. I am very interested in how all of this is going to change the existing residential snow clearing. I will be at the Landscape Ontario show in Toronto, and look forward to finding out more.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Look forward to seeing you at the show Paul. Thanks for that info. Jim told me last year they were doing over 5000 actually. 


Neige said:


> I still have four brand new 2014 Artix if anyone is interested. Priced to sell at 5 grand. (Enough said ) Michel Girard invented the Artix from the Avalanche snow blower. He had a partner from Ontario who's name escapes me, but they were also selling a hydraulic wing plow. I coiuld research it but its really not that important. That went sour, and then Jim hooked up with him I think for two years but it may have only been one. Once again that did not work out, so Jim went out on his own. Jim has been in the snow industry longer than me, and has built up many companies which he sold off, and then started up a new company's He owns Capital Snow Blowing around Ottawa, and I think he has over 3000 clients. So Jim definitely understands the limitations of the inverted, and has been developing a better Artix. From what I have seen and heard, a better inverted type of blower is emerging in the market. I am very interested in how all of this is going to change the existing residential snow clearing. I will be at the Landscape Ontario show in Toronto, and look forward to finding out more.


l


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## Mark Oomkes

Neige said:


> From what I have seen and heard, a better inverted type of blower is emerging in the market.


Huh...you don't say...


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Huh...you don't say...


Ventrac is coming out with an inverted...


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## LapeerLandscape

An inverted ventrac? thats awesome...


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## Defcon 5

LapeerLandscape said:


> An inverted ventrac? thats awesome...


Literally and Epic ally Awesome


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## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> Huh...you don't say...


I see Normand has a new Inverted blower on it's Facebook page, the N92-280HYB.

https://www.facebook.com/CieNormand...kePFFn3YqwgtIkDXm3HUOSXgdcwvE63dXcSNg&fref=nf


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## boutch

CAT 245ME said:


> I see Normand has a new Inverted blower on it's Facebook page, the N92-280HYB.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/CieNormand...kePFFn3YqwgtIkDXm3HUOSXgdcwvE63dXcSNg&fref=nf


Wow it didnt take them long.


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## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> I see Normand has a new Inverted blower on it's Facebook page, the N92-280HYB.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/CieNormand...kePFFn3YqwgtIkDXm3HUOSXgdcwvE63dXcSNg&fref=nf


I have videos of it in action...pretty impressive.


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## boutch

Mark Oomkes said:


> I have videos of it in action...pretty impressive.


It look realy good in action and in handle pretty deep snow fall. They are saying it will be available for next season.


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## Mark Oomkes

I heard the same thing. May have even reserved one...


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## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> It look realy good in action and in handle pretty deep snow fall. They are saying it will be available for next season.


It says to contact your dealer, I'm honestly interested in one if it's built as solid as Normand's other blowers. I see the weight is about 1400 lbs. My inverted without rear blade is 1850 lbs.


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## Rck

Hi, new to the tractor snow business, but think I have the opportunity to really capitalize on this market where I live. My question is, someone mentioned the inverted blowers with blades have limitations and was wondering if someone could clarify. Also what is the benefits of the newly designed normand/cyclone over the old style normand and other brands. Thanks in advance for the replies.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Rck said:


> Hi, new to the tractor snow business, but think I have the opportunity to really capitalize on this market where I live. My question is, someone mentioned the inverted blowers with blades have limitations and was wondering if someone could clarify. Also what is the benefits of the newly designed normand/cyclone over the old style normand and other brands. Thanks in advance for the replies.


there are several disadvantages. Number one being the fact that it leaves a crap load of snow on the road that requires a cleanup taking more time. They're also just another part to cause problems and break, just like how the scraper is bent like a banana on my 80".


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## Landgreen

NickSnow&Mow said:


> there are several disadvantages. Number one being the fact that it leaves a crap load of snow on the road that requires a cleanup taking more time. They're also just another part to cause problems and break, just like how the scraper is bent like a banana on my 80".


I'm having a hard time seeing the advantage of the cyclone watching your video. It doesn't leave a lot of snow but still enough to warrant a cleanup pass. We make one cleanup pass in the road with our Normand 92. Isn't the point of the cyclone design to avoid that final pass?


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## Neige

The standard inverted has been around for close to 40 years. There have been improvements over time, but the general principle is the same.
We never used the back-blade option just because of the extra time it added to each driveway and our clients were used to the the amount of snow left in front of garage doors.
For new users of the inverted snow blower there is a learning curve to not leaving snow in the streets. For some it came easy and for others it was painfully long to learn.
With the new Normand inverted hybrid, it has simplified the learning curve since it now sucks up all the snow leaving none in the street. The other big benefit is you no longer need a back-blade to get closer to the garage doors. So now you can get within 6 inches of the garage door drive forward and once in the street lift the blower and your done.
Normand has used its years of building thousands of snow blowers and kept all the great features and improvements from the standard inverted and implemented them on the new HYBRID. So you get the big drum, the semi-industrial chute, and Hardox 400 just to name a few.
My brother John is going to put the blower through its paces, pushing it hard.


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## Landgreen

Neige said:


> The standard inverted has been around for close to 40 years. There have been improvements over time, but the general principle is the same.
> We never used the back-blade option just because of the extra time it added to each driveway and our clients were used to the the amount of snow left in front of garage doors.
> For new users of the inverted snow blower there is a learning curve to not leaving snow in the streets. For some it came easy and for others it was painfully long to learn.
> With the new Normand inverted hybrid, it has simplified the learning curve since it now sucks up all the snow leaving none in the street. The other big benefit is you no longer need a back-blade to get closer to the garage doors. So now you can get within 6 inches of the garage door drive forward and once in the street lift the blower and your done.
> Normand has used its years of building thousands of snow blowers and kept all the great features and improvements from the standard inverted and implemented them on the new HYBRID. So you get the big drum, the semi-industrial chute, and Hardox 400 just to name a few.
> My brother John is going to put the blower through its paces, pushing it hard.


I've seen the vids of the new Normand in action and it's impressive. No snow left. No extra cleanup needed from what I could tell. Lighter weight would be a big advantage too.


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## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> I've seen the vids of the new Normand in action and it's impressive. No snow left. No extra cleanup needed from what I could tell. Lighter weight would be a big advantage too.


You have???


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## Rck

Are these able to be used on gravel? I live in a heavily wooded area with lots of gravel drives and it would be nice to blow everything right into the woods while keeping the road width. Are there adjustable shoes or something similar until you get some what if a hard pack is what I’m trying to say.


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## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> You have???


Lol. I will text you them .


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## NickSnow&Mow

Landgreen said:


> I'm having a hard time seeing the advantage of the cyclone watching your video. It doesn't leave a lot of snow but still enough to warrant a cleanup pass. We make one cleanup pass in the road with our Normand 92. Isn't the point of the cyclone design to avoid that final pass?


In real snow It's the difference between taking a quick pass on the road with the blower off, dragging the snow and finding an area to blow it again. It's pretty significant.


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## Mains

Thanks for the review Nick.


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## boutch

Here is a new video on you tube of the Normand Hybrid. It handle the heavy wet snow really good. But to bad the operator isn't giving her.

Watch "Souffleur Normand HYBRIDE" on YouTube


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## Mr.Markus

boutch said:


> Here is a new video on you tube of the Normand Hybrid. It handle the heavy wet snow really good. But to bad the operator isn't giving her.
> 
> Watch "Souffleur Normand HYBRIDE" on YouTube


My phone was on full volume, everyone in the diner thinks I was watching porn...


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## boutch

Mr.Markus said:


> My phone was on full volume, everyone in the diner thinks I was watching porn...


That tractor porn at is best.


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## CAT 245ME

I'd like to see a video of this blower in operation from Neige's families business before I was to order one. Lets see one in operation with an experienced operator with about a foot of snow with driveway ends already closed in from the city plow. On a 6 series Deere tractor the blower would be nicer if the width was 98" instead of 92" as shown.


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## Unraveller

I'd like to see one going down a declining driveway and going over a sidewalk. Hit a bump or uneven transition. That's where you need the scraper bar.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Unraveller said:


> I'd like to see one going down a declining driveway and going over a sidewalk. Hit a bump or uneven transition. That's where you need the scraper bar.


Scraper really doesn't help much with that. I guess if it was floating it would probably do more. The only advantage we've found with a hydraulic backscraper is hydraulic down pressure and even that's not very significant. I guess another thing is when they hit a hole or raised sidewalk they really sink down rather than float over because theres only one contact point instead of two.


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## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> I'd like to see a video of this blower in operation from Neige's families business before I was to order one. Lets see one in operation with an experienced operator with about a foot of snow with driveway ends already closed in from the city plow. On a 6 series Deere tractor the blower would be nicer if the width was 98" instead of 92" as shown.


Even 96" would be nice.

I have one sitting at my shop but no snow to test it on. Should've sent it up to @Landgreen


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## Landgreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Even 96" would be nice.
> 
> I have one sitting at my shop but no snow to test it on. Should've sent it up to @Landgreen


Snow coming next couple days. I'll be down tonight to grab it. Have it ready.


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## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> Snow coming next couple days. I'll be down tonight to grab it. Have it ready.


Understood


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## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Scraper really doesn't help much with that. I guess if it was floating it would probably do more. The only advantage we've found with a hydraulic backscraper is hydraulic down pressure and even that's not very significant. I guess another thing is when they hit a hole or raised sidewalk they really sink down rather than float over because theres only one contact point instead of two.


My first year with the inverted I didn't use a rear scraper, but added one the second season suspended by chain. I've regretted putting it on, it does slow you down. I'm finding more and more of my clients are opening there garage doors before I arrive to push the snow out so I'm thinking after this season I'm gonna ditch the scraper. That and it has taken a pretty good beating lol. But as I've posted before, I understand now why Neiges brothers do not use them.


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## Ice-sage

boutch said:


> Here is a new video on you tube of the Normand Hybrid. It handle the heavy wet snow really good. But to bad the operator isn't giving her.
> 
> Watch "Souffleur Normand HYBRIDE" on YouTube


Pretty gimmicky if you ask me.

On an average 3-4 inch snowfall here, the city plows leave generally a 2-4 foot tall and 3-6 foot depth snow berm at the ends of driveways and sidewalk entrances after they come through. By that video and a few others I have watched, there is no possible way that machine will be of any use to us where we live. Not to mention driveways here can have numerous transistions in depth, grade, steepness and angle. And that is before you usually get to the sidewalk portion before the driveway apron leading to the street. Probably 85-90 % also have at least a one inch or more rounded bump at the transition from driveway apron to the street pavement. I don't see any kind of articulation front to back happening in any of the videos. Seems like a standard small arc for up and down only from the pto. That isn't articulation. These units will not work for our city whatsoever.

We'll be sticking to normand and pronovost inverteds on our forward facing tractors.

Note: Curious all of you guys that use these types of snowblowers on tractors on the rear of the machine, who is going to pay for your employees medical care in the long term from the sustained neck, spine, hip and back injury that will be caused from the operator craning their neck around like that to look backwards for the majority of their workshift?


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## Landgreen

Ice-sage said:


> Note: Curious all of you guys that use these types of snowblowers on tractors on the rear of the machine, who is going to pay for your employees medical care in the long term from the sustained neck, spine, hip and back injury that will be caused from the operator craning their neck around like that to look backwards for the majority of their workshift?


I don't recall Vanderzon ever mentioning this. Seems like if anyone would have employee health issues it would be an owner with a large fleet of inverse blowers

I had an employee that had to take time off for sore/strained neck muscles. He wasn't our blower operator. He ran a truck.


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## Mark Oomkes

Ice-sage said:


> On an average 3-4 inch snowfall here, the city plows leave generally a 2-4 foot tall and 3-6 foot depth snow berm at the ends of driveways and sidewalk entrances after they come through.


Horse hockey....unless they're plowing 30 lane roads.

Put down the bong.



Ice-sage said:


> Note: Curious all of you guys that use these types of snowblowers on tractors on the rear of the machine, who is going to pay for your employees medical care in the long term from the sustained neck, spine, hip and back injury that will be caused from the operator craning their neck around like that to look backwards for the majority of their workshift?


So you're guys with front mounted blowers never back up?

This is getting hilarious...and downright stupid.


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## Mark Oomkes

Mr.Markus said:


> My phone was on full volume, everyone in the diner thinks I was watching porn...


Were you???


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## Ajlawn1

Ice-sage said:


> Note: Curious all of you guys that use these types of snowblowers on tractors on the rear of the machine, who is going to pay for your employees medical care in the long term from the sustained neck, spine, hip and back injury that will be caused from the operator craning their neck around like that to look backwards for the majority of their workshift?


Who the H-E double hockey sticks is going to pay for my mental anguish after reading this....


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## Landgreen

Ajlawn1 said:


> Who the H-E double hockey sticks is going to pay for my mental anguish after reading this....


I don't understand. You never broken a hip looking backwards? What's wrong with you?


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## Mark Oomkes

Landgreen said:


> I don't understand. You never broken a hip looking backwards? What's wrong with you?


I broke a sweat...does that count?


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## Mr.Markus

Mark Oomkes said:


> Were you???


No...but I left it playing, gotta keep up the reputation!


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## Ice-sage

Landgreen said:


> I don't recall Vanderzon ever mentioning this. Seems like if anyone would have employee health issues it would be an owner with a large fleet of inverse blowers
> 
> I had an employee that had to take time off for sore/strained neck muscles. He wasn't our blower operator. He ran a truck.


I would hope you inferred that whomever was running these type of units on the rear of a machine may have some medical issues over the long run.

To your second paragraph yes, over time running a plow truck with a front plow will likely have some sort of effect. But plowing forward the bulk of you time is looking straight. With these units on the rear, the bulk of your time will be having your head and spine plus hips and back turned around at a pretty wicked angle. And unlike everyone on these threads, when we looked at inverted blowers, we ran these issues past some doctors. Heck just after showing them a few videos of how you operate these blowers in the fashion that seems to be the norm on the web and plowsite, they all agreed quickly this was not beneficial whatsoever to the health of the operators.


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## Mike_PS

no need to attack another...move on please


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## Landgreen

Ice-sage said:


> We'll be sticking to normand and pronovost inverteds on our forward facing tractors.


Care to share pics of your equipment?


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## Mark Oomkes

Michael J. Donovan said:


> no need to attack another...move on please


No attacks...just calling it like I see it.

Back to snowblowing instead of another semi solid matter.


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## kimber750

Ice-sage said:


> To your second paragraph yes, over time running a plow truck with a front plow will likely have some sort of effect. But plowing forward the bulk of you time is looking straight. With these units on the rear, the bulk of your time will be having your head and spine plus hips and back turned around at a pretty wicked angle.


I spend the same amount of time looking backwards as I do looking forward while plowing. Maybe more since truck will only go 30mph in reverse. Always takes longer to back up the same distance I just plowed going forward. Now these guys running inverted blowers are probably only spending a 1/4 of their plowing time looking backwards because they spend more time driving from driveway to driveway then they do actually backing up. Where as those of who plow commercial lots spend roughly half the time, if not more, looking backwards.

So in my opinion you argument about health issues associated with inverted blowers is severely flawed. Besides plowing is not what I would consider a healthy thing to do by any means. Long hours, little sleep, stress from butthats and employees and customers, tons of coffee and jerky, on call for four months start. Amazing any of us live past 40. You want healthy, join a gym.


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## Ice-sage

kimber750 said:


> I spend the same amount of time looking backwards as I do looking forward while plowing. Maybe more since truck will only go 30mph in reverse. Always takes longer to back up the same distance I just plowed going forward. Now these guys running inverted blowers are probably only spending a 1/4 of their plowing time looking backwards because they spend more time driving from driveway to driveway then they do actually backing up. Where as those of who plow commercial lots spend roughly half the time, if not more, looking backwards.
> 
> So in my opinion you argument about health issues associated with inverted blowers is severely flawed. Besides plowing is not what I would consider a healthy thing to do by any means. Long hours, little sleep, stress from butthats and employees and customers, tons of coffee and jerky, on call for four months start. Amazing any of us live past 40. You want healthy, join a gym.


I personally disagree with alot of your opinions and assumptions up there.
But anywho, back to the original topic of the thread.

I've yet to see or hear in depth how this cyclone blower can dispatch all the huge shortfalls I presented. Also about the new Normand as well. So far haven't seen or really in depth heard those issues talked about or filmed. All I see about the cyclone in videos and chatter, does show its shortcomings quite well. They don't seem to have a great "scrape". They seem to have engineering and mechanical issues already. There doesn't seem to be any way to get these units to do all the things I presented. And I don't see Normand or Cyclone showing anything else than these new units being a "one trick pony".

That's my logical opinion. That's also the facts one can discern from watching all the vids posted by the manufacturers or others. And by the little readable information or advertising the manufacturers have put out.

The Pronovost and Normand inverteds do a few more things than this Cyclone or new Normand can do. In my eyes, and for how we work, these 2 new blowers would actually be makig us take a step backwards.


----------



## kimber750

Ice-sage said:


> I personally disagree with alot of your opinions and assumptions up there.
> But anywho, back to the original topic of the thread.


Which ones exactly do you disagree with? That plow drivers spend more time looking backwards? That the tractor guys spend more time between jobs than they do on them? Do you only disagree because it doesn't fit your narrative? Who is this doctor you consulted? What is her/his specialty? As for assumptions, I plow snow, I know how long I spend looking backwards. So that is not an assumption. I too have seen those tube vids with those nifty tractor blowing snow. They clear a driveway in a minute, then move on. Not a whole lot of backing up. Maybe that is youtube trickery.

So in the end I disagree with all your opinions and assumptions.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ice-sage said:


> I've yet to see or hear in depth how this cyclone blower can dispatch all the huge shortfalls I presented.


The problem is your "huge shortfalls" aren't based in reality. You are not getting 3-6' tall berms at the end of driveways after 8" of snow. Unless your roads are 100+ feet wide...each lane.



Ice-sage said:


> So far haven't seen or really in depth heard those issues talked about or filmed.


Because they haven't been oot in the field that long.



Ice-sage said:


> All I see about the cyclone in videos and chatter, does show its shortcomings quite well.


So everything new is engineered to perfection as soon as it leaves the factory floor?



Ice-sage said:


> And I don't see Normand or Cyclone showing anything else than these new units being a "one trick pony".


You mean strictly for driveways or roads? Not sure why that matters. Many contractors in Canada have made good money with this "one trick pony". There's contractors with literally thousands of customers...one was said to have 13,000 customers. All with inverted blowers...or should I say "one trick ponies".



Ice-sage said:


> That's my logical opinion.


Opinion yes, logical is up for debate. As I said, others, in real life have made it work. Maybe not with either one of these specific blowers, but inverted blowers for driveways can and do work.



Ice-sage said:


> That's also the facts one can discern from watching all the vids posted by the manufacturers or others. And by the little readable information or advertising the manufacturers have put out.


All the while ignoring what those who actually use them say.



Ice-sage said:


> The Pronovost and Normand inverteds do a few more things than this Cyclone or new Normand can do.


Specifically what?



Ice-sage said:


> In my eyes, and for how we work, these 2 new blowers would actually be makig us take a step backwards.


Maybe they would for you. Maybe they won't for others. Not everyone uses an expandable or V plow. Not everyone uses trucks or tractors or loaders. Doesn't make one way right and someone else's way wrong.

As for whether I am a real snow contractor...with a little bit of work, you can determine that for yourself. I am not hiding behind a fake name. I made that choice back in 1999 when I joined Lawnsite. That was before Plowsite was a separate forum. Or I could a be a 15 YO schoolgirl from Key West who has never seen a snowflake in her life. Or you could be. There's been several members who have met me in person and know who\what I am. If you did some checking of my posts you might discover a bit more about me as well.

PS Your posting and lofty ideals remind me of another Plowsite member of recent infamy. Hmmmm


----------



## m_ice

I'm no expert on blowers as I own 1 old unit that has been used once in the last 6+ years but aren't blowers designed to be a "1 trick pony"???
Blowing snow


----------



## CAT 245ME

Ice-sage said:


> Note: Curious all of you guys that use these types of snowblowers on tractors on the rear of the machine, who is going to pay for your employees medical care in the long term from the sustained neck, spine, hip and back injury that will be caused from the operator craning their neck around like that to look backwards for the majority of their workshift?


It's a farm tractor, it's main purpose is to have something behind it. Think of all the farmers in the world that spend a good part of their life looking back at a mower conditioner, baler, harrows and on and on.


----------



## RSG

Neige, any updates or reviews on the Normand Hybrid?


----------



## CAT 245ME

I see the Cyclone is now available from Pronovost.

https://pronovost.qc.ca/en/snowblowers/cyclone


----------



## boutch

CAT 245ME said:


> I see the Cyclone is now available from Pronovost.
> 
> https://pronovost.qc.ca/en/snowblowers/cyclone


I just saw that too. And normand hybrid will be available in














74-82-92-100 inches


----------



## CAT 245ME

I'm most likely going to purchase a new blower for next season. I will admit that I like the Cyclone over the new Normand. I like that it has hydraulic front wings that can open up as well as contain more snow, especially if you have to pull a fair amount of snow out from a dead end drive.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME said:


> I'm most likely going to purchase a new blower for next season. I will admit that I like the Cyclone over the new Normand. I like that it has hydraulic front wings that can open up as well as contain more snow, especially if you have to pull a fair amount of snow out from a dead end drive.


Plowsite stopped sending me notifications about this thread! Miseed out on all this juicy controversy. In regards to the neck issue, that's ridiculous. Let's think this through, pretend the tractor had a front blower, you would drive forward into the driveway while blowing, leave a big pile in front of the garage door, turn around and back onto the road straining your neck to watch for cars. Whoever brought that up definitely doesn't do driveways in any kind of efficient way. Only way to never turn around is to use a walk behind. Good call on the cyclone over Normand CAT. I've heard that the wings are very helpful in cleaning up the plow furrows. Apparently leaves a really nice rounded look to the end of the driveways. I'll be trying the wings on my rebuilt, galvanized 82" for the 4052r as well. Possibly a 92" with wings too. Might have a deal in the works on one of these fancy new 5090r tractors but we'll see.


----------



## edgeair

FWIW, I saw both at the SIMA show in June. Cyclone has partnered with Provonost to solve some of the issues. They are using the Provo chute, fan and auger now for starters. Personally I find the provo chute plugs easier than the normand does, but they are both good. We have mostly Normand inverted and 1 provonost blower in our 'fleet' and are seriously looking at these new blowers as a way of upping the quality of job and maybe lowering the learning curve a little for new operators. Design wise, looking at both of them on the show floor, I liked the Cyclone a little better. Im not sure how much of an advantage the wings truly are unless the driveways you do widen as they go to the road. If you have the wings 'deployed' and drop the blower at the garage, you are going to leave behind the snow beside the blower behind the wing. I can see some limited benefits to them otherwise. 

Do they really do as they say and leave little to no snow in the street at the end of a pass?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

edgeair said:


> FWIW, I saw both at the SIMA show in June. Cyclone has partnered with Provonost to solve some of the issues. They are using the Provo chute, fan and auger now for starters. Personally I find the provo chute plugs easier than the normand does, but they are both good. We have mostly Normand inverted and 1 provonost blower in our 'fleet' and are seriously looking at these new blowers as a way of upping the quality of job and maybe lowering the learning curve a little for new operators. Design wise, looking at both of them on the show floor, I liked the Cyclone a little better. Im not sure how much of an advantage the wings truly are unless the driveways you do widen as they go to the road. If you have the wings 'deployed' and drop the blower at the garage, you are going to leave behind the snow beside the blower behind the wing. I can see some limited benefits to them otherwise.
> 
> Do they really do as they say and leave little to no snow in the street at the end of a pass?


I haven't run the wings yet however Jim tells me they're quite handy. As far snow on the road goes it's inbelievable compared to an old school inverted. Barely anything left behind, I'd estimate 1/5th of the snow is left on the road compared to the other ones. I'll be buying up some 92s with wings this year so I'll let you know how it goes with the wings. If you have any questions as to the benefits of the cyclone over the Normand or just the plain old inverteds feel free to give my self or Jim a call.


----------



## edgeair

NickSnow&Mow said:


> I haven't run the wings yet however Jim tells me they're quite handy. As far snow on the road goes it's inbelievable compared to an old school inverted. Barely anything left behind, I'd estimate 1/5th of the snow is left on the road compared to the other ones. I'll be buying up some 92s with wings this year so I'll let you know how it goes with the wings. If you have any questions as to the benefits of the cyclone over the Normand or just the plain old inverteds feel free to give my self or Jim a call.


Yeah for sure. I talked with Jim at the show, and there were a number of things I liked about the blower. How does it handle heavy plow dumps? All of these hybrids seem to have a smaller intake than the standard inverts.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

edgeair said:


> Cyclone has partnered with Provonost to solve some of the issues. They are using the Provo chute, fan and auger now for starters. Personally I find the provo chute plugs easier than the normand does,


For this reason alone I wouldn't buy one. I completely agree that the Pronovost plug faster\easier than Normands.

Second reason is the $5400 I spent repairing the 3 point 2 separate times on the tractor that uses the Pronovost. I am convinced that the weight is too far back which creates more "bouncing" on the 3 point components and causes stuff to break. Expensive stuff.

Third is the Pronovosts are just not built as well as the Normands. Catch a manhole or lip or broken concrete and stuff bends, breaks, and rattles.

None of these issues with Normands.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes said:


> For this reason alone I wouldn't buy one. I completely agree that the Pronovost plug faster\easier than Normands.
> 
> Second reason is the $5400 I spent repairing the 3 point 2 separate times on the tractor that uses the Pronovost. I am convinced that the weight is too far back which creates more "bouncing" on the 3 point components and causes stuff to break. Expensive stuff.
> 
> Third is the Pronovosts are just not built as well as the Normands. Catch a manhole or lip or broken concrete and stuff bends, breaks, and rattles.
> 
> None of these issues with Normands.


Fair point Mark. I've had a couple of issues with the pronovosts. Particularly with that stupid bolt on 3pt hitch system. However you should keep in mind that only a few of the major parts are actually from pronovost. The chute and auger to be specific. I personally quite like the pronovost chutes and I'm really glad they're now being used as the chute on the original cyclone prototype was definitely it's main weak point. If you ever get the chance to talk to Jim or got a chance to tour his factory I'm sure you'd think quite different. The cyclone also sits much closer to the tractor than old school pronovost blowers. Totally different design. I'm sure the new Normand will be a great blower. It's pretty hard to tell which is the better blower without running both, which I'm going to get the chance to run this winter. However My moneys on the cyclone.


----------



## CAT 245ME

One thing about the Normands HYB is that on the left side of the blower you do not have much of an opening for snow to enter, light snow might not be much of an issue but what about heavy wet snowfalls as well as clearing high windrows from the mouth of the driveway. So many times videos are posted on youtube showing these blowers in operation but it's small snow falls. I want to see these blowers in some heavy snowfalls. Another thing I'll add is that the Normand is much lighter than the cyclone. 

The downside of the traditional inverted is in wet heavy snow, so much snow will build up ahead of the cutting edge and never reach the auger.


----------



## edgeair

Here is the current model with Provonost chute and auger. Note: the 3pt hitch is not the typical 'bolt on' provonost.


----------



## CAT 245ME

edgeair said:


> Here is the current model with Provonost chute and auger. Note: the 3pt hitch is not the typical 'bolt on' provonost.
> 
> View attachment 182314


My Normand 92-280INV has a bolt on 3pt hitch.


----------



## alcs

Want to keep an eye on this thread. Thank you to all


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

*For those that are interested I was up in Ottawa last weekend and had the chance to film some video with Jim, the inventor of the cyclone. we went over a bit of the creation of the cyclone as well as some snow business tips. Plus we played around with a 4066r linked to a 92" cyclone and blew some soil with it! I'm going to be the test pig this season and see if the 66 is up to the challenge in heavy snow. Check it out!





*


----------



## Jkochensparger

Nick, Thanks for the video, who is the contact for the advertising markers for the end of the drive?


----------



## edgeair

It almost hurt watching the soil go through that blower  but not much snow around this time of year haha.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

edgeair said:


> It almost hurt watching the soil go through that blower  but not much snow around this time of year haha.


Lol it hurt to do. Just wasn't my blower so I wasn't too worried.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Did some brush hogging with my 4720...really like it compared to the 3046. Just overall better ride, wasn't really the HP. 

Kinda changes my thoughts on 4 vs 5 Series for driveways.


----------



## Jkochensparger

Mark are you saying you would consider a 4066r for drives?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Jkochensparger said:


> Mark are you saying you would consider a 4066r for drives?


If the route consisted of only drives, very tight routing and the drives were relatively short.


----------



## CAT 245ME

I haven't priced a Pronovost Cyclone, we lack dealer support for Pronovost blowers locally. Most are Normand dealers, I had talked with my JD dealer about a new Normand N100-310HYB, price with tivar edge is $17,450.00 Canadian plus sales tax (15% for me), after today Normand increases the price another 5%. It's certainly a heavy blower, listed at 2225 lbs in the brochure.

My JD dealer said they stopped carrying Pronovost because they were not holding up like a Normand.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> My JD dealer said they stopped carrying Pronovost because they were not holding up like a Normand.


I would wholeheartedly agree with that.


----------



## edgeair

To be fair, a cyclone really isn't a Pronovost - body wise. The weak parts of Pronovost blowers we have had are not present on the cyclone. I do agree that on the heavier larger blowers - edge goes to Normand.


----------



## edgeair

Mark Oomkes said:


> If the route consisted of only drives, very tight routing and the drives were relatively short.


I agree. Not just a 4066, but a tractor in this size range would work well for tighter routes, and in many cases work better (easier to get around on 'less than standard' driveways with obstacles).


----------



## edgeair

CAT 245ME said:


> I haven't priced a Pronovost Cyclone, we lack dealer support for Pronovost blowers locally. Most are Normand dealers, I had talked with my JD dealer about a new Normand N100-310HYB, price with tivar edge is $17,450.00 Canadian plus sales tax (15% for me), after today Normand increases the price another 5%. It's certainly a heavy blower, listed at 2225 lbs in the brochure.
> 
> My JD dealer said they stopped carrying Pronovost because they were not holding up like a Normand.


Yikes, thats a lot of Tim Hortons coffee.


----------



## Neige

Its been some time since I responded to a thread, but I had to set the record straight.
I started snow blowing driveways since I was 16 years old. I stopped at age 52 to doing it full time. So 36 years in a tractor using the inverted snow blower. In all my years in this industry I have never heard of someone checking with doctors to see if what we are doing can be harmful to our bodies. Heck yea any form of snow plowing is going to effect your body. Sorry I digress, back to the tractor inverted blower situation. I figured that over my lifetime I have done somewhere between 250,000 to 270,000 driveways. So far I have had no medical issues to my neck or back. (my mental health is debatable) Its kind of cool I am able to rotate my neck to the right almost 180 degrees. I have included a video that shows that not only do I look back when doing the drives, but there are times I drive backwards to get to the next drive. No matter what you drive, 50% of the time you will be backing up. So even if you have a blower on the front of your tractor you will be backing out of the driveway. Not only will you be backing out into traffic, but now you are twisting your neck left and right to make sure its safe to back into the street. Over this whole time what made the inverted so great is you only touch the snow once and your done. Two you do not leave piles in front of garage doors like regular blowers can. Three we caused less property damage. Four it was much safer when entering the roadway. Five its a cool way to do driveways and makes you popular on these forums.


----------



## edgeair

Neige said:


> .....Five its a cool way to do driveways and makes you popular on these forums.


The most important part!


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Great video Paul. CAT you're getting ripped by your dealer. Maybe things are different out East but I'd be very surprised if Normands were priced like that across the board. Cyclone 92" with wings is about 13 here. I would assume normands pricing would be comparable to pronovost.


----------



## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Great video Paul. CAT you're getting ripped by your dealer. Maybe things are different out East but I'd be very surprised if Normands were priced like that across the board. Cyclone 92" with wings is about 13 here. I would assume normands pricing would be comparable to pronovost.


I do remember about 2 years ago, I priced a new Normand N102-310 Inverted from another local dealer (Agco dealer) and it was $15,300 plus HST. Naturally prices are always going up.


----------



## Mr.Markus

Am I the only one that notices how sunny it is when Paul is doing driveways and shooting video...?


----------



## CAT 245ME

CAT 245ME said:


> I haven't priced a Pronovost Cyclone, we lack dealer support for Pronovost blowers locally. Most are Normand dealers, I had talked with my JD dealer about a new Normand N100-310HYB, price with tivar edge is $17,450.00 Canadian plus sales tax (15% for me), after today Normand increases the price another 5%. It's certainly a heavy blower, listed at 2225 lbs in the brochure.
> 
> My JD dealer said they stopped carrying Pronovost because they were not holding up like a Normand.


I found out this evening from my Normand dealer that the N100 HYB won't be available until mid to late January.


----------



## edgeair

CAT 245ME said:


> I found out this evening from my Normand dealer that the N100 HYB won't be available until mid to late January.


Just in time for the start of winter for you guys huh?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Neige said:


> (my mental health is debatable)


With a last name like Vanderzon...there's not much to debate.


----------



## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> With a last name like Vanderzon...there's not much to debate.


 Sounds like one of your Dutch bruths. :laugh:


----------



## Mark Oomkes

FredG said:


> Sounds like one of your Dutch bruths. :laugh:


How do you think I know there isn't much to debate?


----------



## Enzo

We are looking to add a second tractor to our fleet this year. This time it will be a larger one instead of another L6060 we are going to end up with a Kubota M100GX. I also think we will be doing a 92" Cyclone with wings on it. We currently have an 82" Normand for the L6060 which has been great. I am hoping with the bigger tractor with faster drive time and larger blower we can increase our efficiency.


----------



## boutch

Hey guys. I think I'm gonna give the Bilodeau blower a shot. Blower looks realy well built. From the vid it works realy good in wet snow. Most of the blower is made with hardox.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=161780467825327&id=141194889883885


----------



## Unraveller

boutch said:


> Hey guys. I think I'm gonna give the Bilodeau blower a shot. Blower looks realy well built. From the vid it works realy good in wet snow. Most of the blower is made with hardox.
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=161780467825327&id=141194889883885


Nice video, what does the price and availability look like? Normand is f|_|cking everyone over this year. Dealers that ordered in July are getting told December/January dates now.


----------



## boutch

im looking at a 80 inches one, they gave me price on 80 and 86", pricing are great on them. the smaller one are in production right now, dont know about the bigger one. with steel cutting edge they are:
80" are 6800 CAD$
86" are 7200 CAD$
92" around 7500$
and the 102 around 7800$ all plus applicable tax


----------



## CAT 245ME

Unraveller said:


> Nice video, what does the price and availability look like? Normand is f|_|cking everyone over this year. Dealers that ordered in July are getting told December/January dates now.


My Deere dealer has 3 92" ordered, but never said exactly when they will be in, I was told mid January for an N100 HYB, yes pricing is nuts, I was quoted just over 20k CDN taxes included for the N100 HYB. Never asked how much for the 92".


----------



## boutch

It look like Artix when back to the drawing board. New inverted hybrid blower from them too. The Snowvac


----------



## Jkochensparger

Nic did you get to use the 92” cyclone on the 4066r yet?
Curious if the tractor has enough power and if the tractor will hold up to the higher weight.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Had her out once in some very wet snow! I don't think power will be the issue. The question is the weight. I did have some minor hydraulic issues but I think with the accumulator that we've added things are sorted now. We should have a better idea soon! I also bought another cyclone 82" with wings and am in the process of buying another 4066r. Going to have a face off with the big tractors and 92" with wings, 4066 and 92" with no wings, 4066 with 82" with wings, and 4052 with 82" and no wings. Should be interesting!


----------



## Jkochensparger

Do you have any info on the accumulator? 
John Deere part? Or a picture of how it is hooked up. Some people think it’s a unicorn.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Jkochensparger said:


> Do you have any info on the accumulator?
> John Deere part? Or a picture of how it is hooked up. Some people think it's a unicorn.


I thought the same! I'll make a video of it tomorrow. Not a jd part but I got it through a Deere dealer up north.


----------



## Unraveller

I got an accumulator put on all my L6060's this year by the local Kubota guys too. 

Man what a difference. My teeth stay in my mouth when I hit a bump now.


----------



## White_Gold11

What does that cost a guy to add? Accumulator that is.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

NickSnow&Mow said:


> I thought the same! I'll make a video of it tomorrow. Not a jd part but I got it through a Deere dealer up north.


Dang...wish you had posted this a couple weeks ago.



White_Gold11 said:


> What does that cost a guy to add? Accumulator that is.


We're having a hydraulic company make some for us...$800 without installation.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Our 5085 struggled with the wet crap we had the first 2 times out. Even our 5100 did. 

I'd hate to have a 92" on 4066. I hate having a 92" on a 5085. Fuel consumption is ridiculous as well.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Our 5085 struggled with the wet crap we had the first 2 times out. Even our 5100 did.
> 
> I'd hate to have a 92" on 4066. I hate having a 92" on a 5085. Fuel consumption is ridiculous as well.


Didn't plug once. Fuel consumption is not the best though.


----------



## Neige

Just to show, I still do take videos while its snowing once in a while. This is around 3 inches of wet heavy snow.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Neige said:


> Just to show, I still do take videos while its snowing once in a while. This is around 3 inches of wet heavy snow.


Looking good Paul. What kind of transmissions are in these?


----------



## DeVries

I wonder long term how the 4066 will do, seems that if its drinking the fuel back then its probably struggling to get the job done.

Why not use a larger frame tractor?


----------



## Neige

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Looking good Paul. What kind of transmissions are in these?


Power Shift 8 f/r in three ranges.


----------



## Neige

DeVries said:


> I wonder long term how the 4066 will do, seems that if its drinking the fuel back then its probably struggling to get the job done.
> 
> Why not use a larger frame tractor?


Hydrostatic tractors have always used more fuel. More people are going this route because its easier to find operators. The larger framed tractors can get more done, are more comfortable, and use way less fuel allowing you to run almost 12 hrs before having to refuel.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Neige said:


> Hydrostatic tractors have always used more fuel. More people are going this route because its easier to find operators. The larger framed tractors can get more done, are more comfortable, and use way less fuel allowing you to run almost 12 hrs before having to refuel.





DeVries said:


> I wonder long term how the 4066 will do, seems that if its drinking the fuel back then its probably struggling to get the job done.
> 
> Why not use a larger frame tractor?


We're experimenting several different variations with 4r and 5r series. I'm now convinced there's no one size fits all approach. Some routes require a small tractor. Some are more efficient with a big machine. We're trying to find a happy medium with the big blower on small tractor. It also costs about $40 000 less. I think long term the small tractors will be best suited with 80". This is more an experiment to see if it's possible and practical.


----------



## Neige

NickSnow&Mow said:


> We're experimenting several different variations with 4r and 5r series. I'm now convinced there's no one size fits all approach. Some routes require a small tractor. Some are more efficient with a big machine. We're trying to find a happy medium with the big blower on small tractor. It also costs about $40 000 less. I think long term the small tractors will be best suited with 80". This is more an experiment to see if it's possible and practical.


Well said Nick


----------



## RAZOR

[/ATTACH]














I bought a pair Agrimetal hybrid blower this fall. I originally planed on trying the new Normands but last June my dealer told me that it would,d be well into the new year before they would be ready I started looking elsewhere.


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

RAZOR said:


> View attachment 186834
> View attachment 186834
> View attachment 186835
> View attachment 186836
> I bought a pair Agrimetal hybrid blower this fall. I originally planed on trying the new Normands but last June my dealer told me that it would,d be well into the new year before they would be ready I started looking elsewhere.


 Looking great! What made you go with that setup over a cyclone or biledeau?


----------



## BossPlow2010

NickSnow&Mow said:


> We're experimenting several different variations with 4r and 5r series. I'm now convinced there's no one size fits all approach. Some routes require a small tractor. Some are more efficient with a big machine. We're trying to find a happy medium with the big blower on small tractor. It also costs about $40 000 less. I think long term the small tractors will be best suited with 80". This is more an experiment to see if it's possible and practical.


Are you running a plow on the front of any of them or just blowers on the back?


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

BossPlow2010 said:


> Are you running a plow on the front of any of them or just blowers on the back?


Inverted blowers and weights on the front only. Sold the metal pless yesterday.


----------



## RAZOR

My dealer started to carry them. He went on a good review from one of his customers who tried them last winter. I talked to him he he was impressed with them and was ordering a couple more this season so I took the chance that they would be good.


----------



## Jkochensparger

Nick any luck on the video?


----------



## Jkochensparger

RAZOR said:


> [/ATTACH]
> View attachment 186834
> View attachment 186835
> I bought a pair Agrimetal hybrid blower this fall. I originally planed on trying the new Normands but last June my dealer told me that it would,d be well into the new year before they would be ready I started looking elsewhere.
> There is nothing on their website here in the US about the inverted blowers.
> View attachment 186836


----------



## NickSnow&Mow

Jkochensparger said:


> Nick any luck on the video?


You bet!


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## RAZOR

I think the delay in lifting the blower is normal. All the L5740 and L6060 I have had with accumulators had a delay. Some were quicker to lift than others. Been using them for a few years now so if the delay was a issue it would have shown itself by now.


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## NickSnow&Mow

RAZOR said:


> I think the delay in lifting the blower is normal. All the L5740 and L6060 I have had with accumulators had a delay. Some were quicker to lift than others. Been using them for a few years now so if the delay was a issue it would have shown itself by now.


Good to know. Only when cold? I wasn't expecting it glad to hear it's not a problem.


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## RAZOR

To tell you the truth I only notice when I first fire up the tractor. When I'm working it I don't seem to notice. Maybe the oil is warmed up and thinner or maybe because the tractor is revved up.


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## Jkochensparger

Thanks nick, nice video, can you send me the part number/ contact number?
Thanks Jim


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## Jkochensparger

Razor there is not any information on the argmetal Inverted blowers on the us website.


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## RAZOR

Jkochensparger said:


> Razor there is not any information on the argmetal Inverted blowers on the us website.


Yeah I think they are a small company and don't update their website often. In the past I came across their double fan blower that looked interesting but other than that there is not much info out there.


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## CAT 245ME

Mark Oomkes said:


> Our 5085 struggled with the wet crap we had the first 2 times out. Even our 5100 did.
> 
> I'd hate to have a 92" on 4066. I hate having a 92" on a 5085. Fuel consumption is ridiculous as well.


I considered a 5085M this fall as a second tractor, but your posts kept me from making that choice. The 6105D I ran the first 3 seasons was good on fuel imo, tractor was flawless but I didn't like the transmission at all, pretty much the same type of setup in the 5E & 5M tractors, one lever for the ranges and the other for the gears, as well as I hated reaching down to shift ranges. I traded my 2015 6105D this fall on a 2015 6115M/ 340 (100 pto hp) loader and 24 speed power quad with 600 hours. More money for sure but after 2 and a half snow falls (flat front tire one hour into the third event) I love the power quad, wider cab much better visibility, and the 6M overall.


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## BUFF

CAT 245ME said:


> I considered a 5085M this fall as a second tractor, but your posts kept me from making that choice. The 6105D I ran the first 3 seasons was good on fuel imo, tractor was flawless but I didn't like the transmission at all, pretty much the same type of setup in the 5E & 5M tractors, one lever for the ranges and the other for the gears, as well as I hated reaching down to shift ranges. I traded my 2015 6105D this fall on a 2015 6115M/ 340 (100 pto hp) loader and 24 speed power quad with 600 hours. More money for sure but after 2 and a half snow falls (flat front tire one hour into the third event) I love the power quad, wider cab much better visibility, and the 6M overall.
> View attachment 186990


If you like the 6M Series you'd love a 7R or 8R Series cabs/layout's


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## stevesmowing

Enzo said:


> We are looking to add a second tractor to our fleet this year. This time it will be a larger one instead of another L6060 we are going to end up with a Kubota M100GX. I also think we will be doing a 92" Cyclone with wings on it. We currently have an 82" Normand for the L6060 which has been great. I am hoping with the bigger tractor with faster drive time and larger blower we can increase our efficiency.


Did you end up getting the m100gx with the cyclone 92"? I have a L6060 nd 80" cyclone also looking at buying a m100gx


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## Enzo

stevesmowing said:


> Did you end up getting the m100gx with the cyclone 92"? I have a L6060 nd 80" cyclone also looking at buying a m100gx


Yea we did still hasn't been used yet.


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## edgeair

We have a couple of cyclone blowers that have never been used (80 and 92 sizes). We had hoped to use them this year, but due to a major unforeseen expense we are looking to sell one of them instead of putting them on a tractor. I know stock was tight this year, so if you are wanting one of these units before the end of this winter, please contact me.


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## kennyh

edgeair said:


> We have a couple of cyclone blowers that have never been used (80 and 92 sizes). We had hoped to use them this year, but due to a major unforeseen expense we are looking to sell one of them instead of putting them on a tractor. I know stock was tight this year, so if you are wanting one of these units before the end of this winter, please contact me.


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## kennyh

I'm interested in the 80"need contact info please


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## boutch

An Other question for Nick, how's recycling the snow with a cyclone? The top of the blower is much longer then a conventional inverted and the chain guard completely covers the top left side. Can you recycle snow or just keep tuning the pto on and off all the time.

I seen 2 version of the Bilodeau blower with 2 different depth of the top panel on the right side of the blower. Not much can be done on the left side unless the guard is removed and I try to recycle on the right side anyway.

First pic has the longer top piece on the right side. Second pic as the shorter top piece.


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## NickSnow&Mow

boutch said:


> An Other question for Nick, how recycling the snow with a cyclone? The top of the blower is much longer then a conventional inverted and the chain guard completely covers the top left side. Can you recycle snow or just keep tuning the pto on and off all the time.
> 
> I seen 2 version of the Bilodeau blower with 2 different depth of the top panel on the right side of the blower. Not much can be done on the left side unless the guard is removed and I try to recycle on the right side anyway.
> 
> First pic has the longer top piece on the right side. Second pic as the shorter top piece.
> 
> View attachment 189237
> View attachment 189239


Interesting point. I often recycle with the chute in the right side as that's the ergonomic side for your neck. Can't say I've ever even thought to try the left. Out in the 5115 right now. I'll give it a try.


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## boutch

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Interesting point. I often recycle with the chute in the right side as that's the ergonomic side for your neck. Can't say I've ever even thought to try the left. Out in the 5115 right now. I'll give it a try.


Recycling on the right side without wings on the cyclone does it work or all the snow spill out? On the left side I'm pretty sure it wouldn't recycle at all without wings on.

I dont recycle to left anyway unless I got no other option. Just as you mentioned


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## Enzo

edgeair said:


> We have a couple of cyclone blowers that have never been used (80 and 92 sizes). We had hoped to use them this year, but due to a major unforeseen expense we are looking to sell one of them instead of putting them on a tractor. I know stock was tight this year, so if you are wanting one of these units before the end of this winter, please contact me.


Do you still have the 80" cyclone?


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## NickSnow&Mow




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## edgeair

Enzo said:


> Do you still have the 80" cyclone?


Yes sir.


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## Enzo

Would you be willing to sell it to us down here in the states?


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## edgeair

Enzo said:


> Would you be willing to sell it to us down here in the states?


Yes I would. PM me.


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## NickSnow&Mow

Question for you guys, What do you think of galvanized blowers vs powder coat? They obviously don't look quite as nice but long term should hold up better. I was talking to Jim and heard that Pronovost is considering going to all paint for the 80" blowers. This drives me nuts because almost our entire fleet is now galvanized lol.


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## GMC Driver

Other than having to wait 5 months for our Cyclone, and having the one that was supposed to be ours shipped to another dealer and then having to wait another month, we are happy with our Cyclone.

BTW - dealer sent this to me this week:


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## Mark Oomkes

I think galvanized is a great marketing ploy.


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> I think galvanized is a great marketing ploy.


Like SS skins on plowz


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## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Like SS skins on plowz


Kinda...although SS might reduce snow sticking to it.


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## edgeair

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Question for you guys, What do you think of galvanized blowers vs powder coat? They obviously don't look quite as nice but long term should hold up better. I was talking to Jim and heard that Pronovost is considering going to all paint for the 80" blowers. This drives me nuts because almost our entire fleet is now galvanized lol.


I think galvanized is good as long as they do a good job with the galv. Powdercoat or whatever process Normand and Provonost use, still flake and peel after a couple years, and it drives me nuts.


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## kennyh

Let's keep going forward in the snow blowing stay with the galvanized blower .one less thing on the checklist to do when the seasons are done.wash her down grease up.


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## boutch

That a bummer. I was


edgeair said:


> I think galvanized is good as long as they do a good job with the galv. Powdercoat or whatever process Normand and Provonost use, still flake and peel after a couple years, and it drives me nuts.


Pronovost are definatly not powder coated. Normand rust as fast as Pronovost, so probably not.


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## CAT 245ME

GMC Driver said:


> Other than having to wait 5 months for our Cyclone, and having the one that was supposed to be ours shipped to another dealer and then having to wait another month, we are happy with our Cyclone.
> 
> BTW - dealer sent this to me this week:
> 
> View attachment 191210


That blower looks like a Pronovost with a different name


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## boutch

CAT 245ME said:


> That blower looks like a Pronovost with a different name


Lots of similarities.


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## GMC Driver

KCL is Kubota Canada Limited. I think you're probably right - they've rebranded the Pronovost unit to fall under the Kubota lineup.


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## boutch

GMC Driver said:


> KCL is Kubota Canada Limited. I think you're probably right - they've rebranded the Pronovost unit to fall under the Kubota lineup.


If that the case. Then RAD TECH makes Bervac snowblower and makes them for Frontier and kubota too. That more likely a Bervac then Pronovost.


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## Enzo

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Question for you guys, What do you think of galvanized blowers vs powder coat? They obviously don't look quite as nice but long term should hold up better. I was talking to Jim and heard that Pronovost is considering going to all paint for the 80" blowers. This drives me nuts because almost our entire fleet is now galvanized lol.


Hey Nick did you get my message regarding this?


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## NickSnow&Mow

Enzo said:


> Hey Nick did you get my message regarding this?


Sure did. Sent Pronovost a nice long letter.


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## boutch

I saw this galvanized pronovost blower. I'm not sure if is was galvanized by Pronovost of after. Assuming it is a 2011 like the tractor and has the same usage, 1200 hrs. It still look really good.


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## Ice-sage

Galvanized is the process we prefer over any other at the moment. Not only can you galvanize the largest and smallest parts, you can do bolts and screws and fasteners as well. We absolutely love it for ease of use, long term reliability, ease of cleaning and lubricating and sustainability in the long run.


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## Mark Oomkes

Ice-sage said:


> Galvanized is the process we prefer over any other at the moment. Not only can you galvanize the largest and smallest parts, you can do bolts and screws and fasteners as well. We absolutely love it for ease of use, long term reliability, ease of cleaning and lubricating and sustainability in the long run.


Clean them in 15 seconds?


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## NickSnow&Mow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Clean them in 15 seconds?


Canada plow is back? Lol


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## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> I saw this galvanized pronovost blower. I'm not sure if is was galvanized by Pronovost of after. Assuming it is a 2011 like the tractor and has the same usage, 1200 hrs. It still look really good.


That tractor/blower has been on the site since at least 2016. Not sure why it's listed in Woodstock, I've never seen it there. Looking at the pictures, they were taken at the Halifax Branch.


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## boutch

CAT 245ME said:


> That tractor/blower has been on the site since at least 2016. Not sure why it's listed in Woodstock, I've never seen it there. Looking at the pictures, they were taken at the Halifax Branch.


Yes it used To be in Halifax. It was here for ever. I tried it out 2 years ago when my buddy had it as a loaner after loosing a wheel and damaging a front hub on his 3046. It was still here last October. It could be in Woodstock now though, I haven't seen it there last 3-4 times I drove by.


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## boutch

I think they got it summer 2015. Green Diamond had 2. One here and one in Moncton. Also there was a couple exact same one in Montreal for sell. The one in Montreal were 36k at the time, Green diamond started at 42k I think. 4 year later they still have it.


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## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> I think they got it summer 2015. Green Diamond had 2. One here and one in Moncton. Also there was a couple exact same one in Montreal for sell. The one in Montreal were 36k at the time, Green diamond started at 42k I think. 4 year later they still have it.


My inverted blower came from Moncton, it was new on the lot for I think 3 or 4 years. Nobody wanted it. I paid 8k for it, they were grateful to see it gone. I gotta say that it's funny how on this site it's inverted blowers all the way, yet in a place like Moncton New Brunswick where there are several large company's doing residential, they all use push blowers. Company's like D&S Snow Removal, Chore Guy's, Avalanche and others run large fleets of 100hp and up tractors with rear push blowers. I think D&S has close to 30 tractors in there fleet.


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## BUFF

CAT 245ME said:


> I think D&S has close to 30 tractors in there fleet.


That's a lot of skin....


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## boutch

CAT 245ME said:


> My inverted blower came from Moncton, it was new on the lot for I think 3 or 4 years. Nobody wanted it. I paid 8k for it, they were grateful to see it gone. I gotta say that it's funny how on this site it's inverted blowers all the way, yet in a place like Moncton New Brunswick where there are several large company's doing residential, they all use push blowers. Company's like D&S Snow Removal, Chore Guy's, Avalanche and others run large fleets of 100hp and up tractors with rear push blowers. I think D&S has close to 30 tractors in there fleet.


Ya agree. When I got my tractor in 2015 all the dealer in NS that i contacted, none knew what I was talking about when I ask if they had any new or used inverted blower. Lol

The inverted are not to popular East of Montreal region. But I think it is changing now with the cyclone/bilodeau/snowvac.


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## CAT 245ME

BUFF said:


> That's a lot of skin....


The company Chore Guys began operating about 12 or 13 years ago with just one tractor/blower and a plow truck. They are now up to 12 tractor/blower setups.


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## WIPensFan

If that dude blew snow in my yard, there would be hell to pay!:yow!:


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## BUFF

WIPensFan said:


> If that dude blew snow in my yard, there would be hell to pay!:yow!:


Sooooo mulch anger……..
That's why you never take video.....


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## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> The inverted are not to popular East of Montreal region. But I think it is changing now with the cyclone/bilodeau/snowvac.


I don't know about that, I was one of the first (if not the first) here with an inverted, shortly after I noticed a couple others (80" width) show up and herd about others try using them. But those who did try them got rid of them for ether a rear push blower or a front mounted blower. I had talked to a couple guys that did have one and both of them were not a fan of them. I only know of one guy using one at the moment, I believe it's a Meteor inverted on a 50hp tractor, he has a loader and blade for cleaning up what's left on the street.


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## boutch

Any with large tractor that didnt like the inverted. I can see 4 series or 5740/6060 having a problem with how much snow you guys gets.


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## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> Any with large tractor that didnt like the inverted. I can see 4 series or 5740/6060 having a problem with how much snow you guys gets.


Actually, I'm the only one running a large tractor, my 92" blower is the biggest blower that I know of in the city. It's 50hp and smaller. You see more than a few driving around with lets say a 3 series Deere in size on a trailer and they have drives all over the city.

Tractors/blowers is a fairly new concept here in Fredericton for driveways. In other markets a seasonal contract can be from $320 to $385 plus tax for a tractor/blower like mine, here I know of more than a few that were paying $50 plus tax per visit for a driveway big enough for 2 cars. One lady (Senior) payed over two winters $2400 tax inc for snow removal. I personally do know someone who's seasonal rates start at $600. This winter we had 14 snow events, keep in mind those here paying $50 plus tax times that by 14 snowfalls comes to $805 for the winter.


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## NickSnow&Mow

CAT 245ME said:


> My inverted blower came from Moncton, it was new on the lot for I think 3 or 4 years. Nobody wanted it. I paid 8k for it, they were grateful to see it gone. I gotta say that it's funny how on this site it's inverted blowers all the way, yet in a place like Moncton New Brunswick where there are several large company's doing residential, they all use push blowers. Company's like D&S Snow Removal, Chore Guy's, Avalanche and others run large fleets of 100hp and up tractors with rear push blowers. I think D&S has close to 30 tractors in there fleet.


Interesting. Do you think it's due to the huge storms you guys get?


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## CAT 245ME

NickSnow&Mow said:


> Interesting. Do you think it's due to the huge storms you guys get?


It really depends on your location, Northern New Brunswick normally see's a lot of snow every winter, the eastern part of the province down to Moncton and Prince Edward Island can see some very deep snow falls. The Moncton area (Dieppe & Riverview) a couple of times have seen snowfalls of 160 cm (63") over a three day period. The last time was I think 2015. And it's not just the accumulation you also can see hurricane force winds that cause really severe drifting, zero visibility that makes it very hard to see anything as well makes it very hard to work with the storm.

That's really the only negative about Atlantic Canada is the Nor'easter's that come up the eastern seaboard and continue to intensify the further they track. If your not familiar with "White Juan" that hit Nova Scotia as well as PEI and southwest NB with a 100cm (39") and up in one day back in 04 you should do some searching, I'm sure Boutch doesn't want to relive it.

As for the Fredericton area, it's not as bad as other parts of the province, but it can be at times. I've been moving snow for myself almost 20 years, I've seen more severe storms since 2015 than I had over many many years prior to that, during this time I've had a few snowfalls in the 50cm (20") range to the worst being 80cm (31") single day. Again it's not just the accumulation it's the hurricane force winds that sometimes come with it. I remember all to well how much it was a struggle clearing drives with the inverted, more than a few that I did on call were to the top of the front tires and I even had one that I was lucky enough to just have enough room to back in between the drift and the house to be able to cut into the drift a little at a time, that one home was almost drifted shut, I run a 6 series JD and that drift at that one property was to the top of my back tire, so your looking at 66" high. The storm we had the 80cm, it started out as 30-40cm forecast but it just turned into a nightmare. I still have just the inverted but came close to buying a Normand N98HE+ last spring in case of an emergency.

Here are a few pics of what it can be like on Prince Edward Island. Check out the 7 series John Deere clearing drives in Summerside, that company has been moving snow since the 70's.


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## CAT 245ME

This was not that long ago in Moncton New Brunswick.


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## boutch

Thanks CAT245ME. I wasn't plowing in 2004 thanks God! It was a real mess.

The 2015 strom here was as bad as 2004 if not worst. But the city didnt get hit by surprise like in 2004. That storm in 2015 was the deciding factor to getting a tractor. I tried to keep up with the storm during the night but it was to windy to see anything and the city plow were not keeping up. At 4 am I gave up and when home. Got up at 8 am after a bit of rest and realized that I was [email protected]$& when everything I just plowed 4 hrs ago was all blown in 3 feet deep.

It took 2 hrs to make one pass out of my 400 foot driveway. When I got to the street, I couldnt go anywhere. The city plow only made it mid afternoon that day.


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## Mark Oomkes

CAT 245ME said:


> This was not that long ago in Moncton New Brunswick.


@FredG is going to like the TWN weather chick...


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## Mr.Markus

Mark Oomkes said:


> @FredG is going to like the TWN weather chick...


That's why it liked it, I hate snow....


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## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> @FredG is going to like the TWN weather chick...


 Meh the weather girl is no trip to the beach, but the journalist was pleasant to the eye.


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## CAT 245ME

boutch said:


> Thanks CAT245ME. I wasn't plowing in 2004 thanks God! It was a real mess.
> 
> The 2015 strom here was as bad as 2004 if not worst. But the city didnt get hit by surprise like in 2004. That storm in 2015 was the deciding factor to getting a tractor. I tried to keep up with the storm during the night but it was to windy to see anything and the city plow were not keeping up. At 4 am I gave up and when home. Got up at 8 am after a bit of rest and realized that I was [email protected]$& when everything I just plowed 4 hrs ago was all blown in 3 feet deep.
> 
> It took 2 hrs to make one pass out of my 400 foot driveway. When I got to the street, I couldnt go anywhere. The city plow only made it mid afternoon that day.


It's times like that it would be just easier to blow going back then trying to pull it out a little at a time. When we got the 80cm 3 years ago, the wind was so bad that all city vehicles including plows were pulled off til that evening. When they did clear the streets, the wall of snow left at the end of every driveway was a headache. I had to lock the rear diff to be able to try and get up on it to pull it out. I wish I could've taken pictures, but at night they wouldn't have turned out.


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## CAT 245ME

FredG said:


> Meh the weather girl is no trip to the beach, but the journalist was pleasant to the eye.


You mean Katie Jones 

They should hire her full time, I'd clear her driveway for free.


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## FredG

CAT 245ME said:


> You mean Katie Jones
> 
> They should hire her full time, I'd clear her driveway for free.


 Ditto. Thumbs Up


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## boutch

CAT 245ME said:


> It's times like that it would be just easier to blow going back then trying to pull it out a little at a time. When we got the 80cm 3 years ago, the wind was so bad that all city vehicles including plows were pulled off til that evening. When they did clear the streets, the wall of snow left at the end of every driveway was a headache. I had to lock the rear diff to be able to try and get up on it to pull it out. I wish I could've taken pictures, but at night they wouldn't have turned out.


I keep a conventional blower for those freak storm. I Had a p860-92 for the M100X, i used it once in 3 seasons, but I'm glad I had it. That storm in 2017 we got 60 cm here. All my driveways are long. Most 80 to 100 feet long and about 10 that are 300-400 feet. My 5 hrs route was over 10 hrs that night, next day they all had to be redone because of the wind blowing them back in. My neck was sore for a month after spending 20 hrs blowing backward.

In the pass I have done 40 cm no problem with the inverted. But 60 cm was to much, i could have made it but would have took for ever.

With the L6060 I got a conventional blower also for back up. Over a foot of heavy blown in snow I will swap to conventional vs inverted.


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