# Plow or bucket for sidewalk skidsteer



## Freshwater

John deere 3375, same as new holland l255, ls125. 36" wide 2k lb machine. Equivalent to bobcat 371. 
There's a 60" new holland blade made for my attachment plate for sale locally. I've read about problems with the snow pushing these machines to the side with the blade angled. I've also read about the problems with wearing out the cutting edges on these little blades, namely john deere but I can't imagine the new holland would be any better. Some people never take the bucket off and love it.
I've plowed with it sporadically with the 47" bucket mainly doing city Walks the next day on bigger storms. It's worked fine in those situation. I plan on using it full time next year, and I'm just looking for some input, pros and cons of each way.
I can pick up a blade for about 1k.
If I do the bucket I'd probably get a 54" for snow.
I know the best option is blower for deeper snow.


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## ktfbgb

Believe it or not I never see anything but buckets on any type of sidewalk equipment here. We get 100 inches of snow a year and everyone I know, including myself, the municipalities, and everyone I see out working, only has buckets. I didn't even know there were plow blades, sweepers, or blowers for snow removal on sidewalks until I joined this site. 

I must say it seems pretty fast and efficient with a bucket around here. But, that's because that's all I know. From reading about the other options it seems like the other options are more efficient. 

I do 3 miles of sidewalks with my John Deere 2305 with a 48" bucket in 3-4 hours for a 12" storm. Which includes widening out intersections, digging out hydrants, and any other touch up work needed with a foot of snow. We do them after the storm, no one does them with the storm around here on the HOA,s or city cpsidewalks. Obviously the commercial walks are done with the storm.

And a skid steer with a 60" bucket is twice as fast as my machine.


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## Freshwater

How wide are your sidewalks in AZ? Ours are generally 60" here. Do you just push straight and leave them at 48"? I'm not sure my little skid could handle a 60" bucket. I'd probably find a way to bolt on a rubber edge too.


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## ktfbgb

The walks I'm using the 2305 on are 48". Typical "normal walks" are 60 though. Guys usually match the bucket size to the walk if possible.

I have some other walks that are 60". But they are short. If I do need the tractor for them because of the city berm thrown up on the walk, typically yes I drive straight line. They aren't really worried about edge to edge here. 

When there is a lot of snow, like our storm last month where we got 40" in a weekend, I brought in a sub with a skid steer to help me. We approached the sidewalks from the street since they are round curbs and took the windrow and sidewalk snow and rolled it all up behind the walks onto the yards to gain the street width back. It was very efficient doing it this way. But it's an HOA, and this particular one lets us put snow in people's yards because of limited space. Not all places are gonna allow that.


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## MIDTOWNPC

We use a plow and we cut each side of the cutting edge on a 45 degree angle so when angled it glides over the sidewalk cracks. We have started to use poly cutting edges and even tried stainless edges as in the past we have noticed rust stains on sidewalks.


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## MIDTOWNPC

Once the ground is hard i like to have them windrow the sidewalks back if they can as it keeps the melting off the walks and makes room for future snow. 

Good day to show a backup the route.


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## ktfbgb

MIDTOWNPC said:


> We use a plow and we cut each side of the cutting edge on a 45 degree angle so when angled it glides over the sidewalk cracks. We have started to use poly cutting edges and even tried stainless edges as in the past we have noticed rust stains on sidewalks.
> 
> View attachment 171180


I'd like to get me one of those toolcats. But I could get a brand new 1 ton diesel truck, fully loaded with leather and heated seats for cheaper lol.


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## MIDTOWNPC

I bought mine many many years ago.


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## JustJeff

ktfbgb said:


> Believe it or not I never see anything but buckets on any type of sidewalk equipment here. We get 100 inches of snow a year and everyone I know, including myself, the municipalities, and everyone I see out working, only has buckets. I didn't even know there were plow blades, sweepers, or blowers for snow removal on sidewalks until I joined this site.
> 
> I must say it seems pretty fast and efficient with a bucket around here. But, that's because that's all I know. From reading about the other options it seems like the other options are more efficient.
> 
> I do 3 miles of sidewalks with my John Deere 2305 with a 48" bucket in 3-4 hours for a 12" storm. Which includes widening out intersections, digging out hydrants, and any other touch up work needed with a foot of snow. We do them after the storm, no one does them with the storm around here on the HOA,s or city cpsidewalks. Obviously the commercial walks are done with the storm.
> 
> And a skid steer with a 60" bucket is twice as fast as my machine.


100"??? Wow. Never would have guessed that. I knew parts of AZ got snow, but I never would have known that places get 100". It's also hard to believe that nobody uses blowers or rotary brooms. To me, it seems like using a bucket is the most inefficient way to move snow. Kind of like a straight blade compared to a V or containment plow. I could see why you don't use a rotary sweeper if you wait until after the storm if there's 12" down already though.


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## On a Call

We too use our bucket mostly because it is what we have. However it does work well and we can stack it where needed. The machine we are using it on is a bobcat 642. Our other skid steer is too large for sidewalks.

I would say both have advantages over the other. 

I do like the poly idea.


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## leolkfrm

if all the snow goes in one direction(away from buildings), blades and brooms, doesnt matter, a bucket works....
our town has been using a bucket on sidewalks and it seems he spends half his time backing up and dumping, instead of plowing thru


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## On a Call

Adding to my post and Leo's...
Leo is correct partly. When we do sidewalks we tent to just plow forward until the bucket is full then we spin and drop. Depending on the snow most of it just rolls off the side. We just do not get that much snow around here but when we do it is like KTF says...after it is done then do the areas left. 

I have thought about blades too but not for side walks but for doing drives at condo's. We do a bunch and have problems with trucks not making the swings on the curves doing back dragging. This is where we will find a good use for one.


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## John_DeereGreen

ktfbgb said:


> I'd like to get me one of those toolcats. But I could get a brand new 1 ton diesel truck, fully loaded with leather and heated seats for cheaper lol.


You don't have to buy them new...one of ours has 4500 hours on it and short of a hydraulic hose blowing here and there is a great machine. We've put over 2000 on it in a year and a half.


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## Freshwater

John_DeereGreen said:


> You don't have to buy them new...one of ours has 4500 hours on it and short of a hydraulic hose blowing here and there is a great machine. We've put over 2000 on it in a year and a half.


How much do the tool cats weigh? I have a 6ft Curtis plow off a gator sitting at my yard. Its not in the best shape and it's manual angle so I gave it to my neigbor. His little skid has no remotes. The gator got killed plowing by the way.


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## Freshwater

On a Call said:


> Adding to my post and Leo's...
> Leo is correct partly. When we do sidewalks we tent to just plow forward until the bucket is full then we spin and drop. Depending on the snow most of it just rolls off the side. We just do not get that much snow around here but when we do it is like KTF says...after it is done then do the areas left.
> 
> I have thought about blades too but not for side walks but for doing drives at condo's. We do a bunch and have problems with trucks not making the swings on the curves doing back dragging. This is where we will find a good use for one.


All our runs are less than 200ft at a time. I was hoping to just push forward without dumping. If I ended up dumping alot I think I'd go with a blade.


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## Mark Oomkes

ktfbgb said:


> I'd like to get me one of those toolcats. But I could get a brand new 1 ton diesel truck, fully loaded with leather and heated seats for cheaper lol.


No you don't........they are amazing machines, no doubt, but the cost per hour after a couple years is insane when compared to other options.

I loved mine, really did. If I could justify owning one year round, I would, but I didn't have enough summer work to justify it. Even then, after seeing what CUTs and SCUTs can do, not sure I would.


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## Mark Oomkes

Freshwater said:


> John deere 3375, same as new holland l255, ls125. 36" wide 2k lb machine. Equivalent to bobcat 371.
> There's a 60" new holland blade made for my attachment plate for sale locally. I've read about problems with the snow pushing these machines to the side with the blade angled. I've also read about the problems with wearing out the cutting edges on these little blades, namely john deere but I can't imagine the new holland would be any better. Some people never take the bucket off and love it.
> I've plowed with it sporadically with the 47" bucket mainly doing city Walks the next day on bigger storms. It's worked fine in those situation. I plan on using it full time next year, and I'm just looking for some input, pros and cons of each way.
> I can pick up a blade for about 1k.
> If I do the bucket I'd probably get a 54" for snow.
> I know the best option is blower for deeper snow.


Do you need a straight blade? What aboot a V, either fixed or the Boss UTV V? Fab a mount and could run the controls off the auxiliary hydros.


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## Mark Oomkes

I'd shoot myself using a bucket to clear any significant length of sidewalk.


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## Freshwater

MIDTOWNPC said:


> We use a plow and we cut each side of the cutting edge on a 45 degree angle so when angled it glides over the sidewalk cracks. We have started to use poly cutting edges and even tried stainless edges as in the past we have noticed rust stains on sidewalks.
> 
> View attachment 171180


That's a great idea cutting the cutting edge 45deg. The walks around here kinda suck.


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## Freshwater

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do you need a straight blade? What aboot a V, either fixed or the Boss UTV V? Fab a mount and could run the controls off the auxiliary hydros.


I'd love to get a v for it. Fabing a mount is no issue, I'm not sure on the hydros, mine are only 2 way hydros. Fixed wouldn't work. 
I was all in on the blade till the cutting edge issues came up. Maybe wait on a bobcat brand to come up on craigslist this summer.


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## Freshwater

Are those newer tractors faster than say a older Kubota bx2200? I used to rent one and it was real slow moving. My skid even with 1 speed seems twice as fast.


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## Freshwater

I've also considered a 5ft box with backdrag. Again I'm not sure the skid would push it. I have no experience with it.


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## Mark Oomkes

Freshwater said:


> Are those newer tractors faster than say a older Kubota bx2200? I used to rent one and it was real slow moving. My skid even with 1 speed seems twice as fast.


What size "newer" tractor?


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## John_DeereGreen

Freshwater said:


> How much do the tool cats weigh? I have a 6ft Curtis plow off a gator sitting at my yard. Its not in the best shape and it's manual angle so I gave it to my neigbor. His little skid has no remotes. The gator got killed plowing by the way.


They're about 6000 pounds. 60" wide.

Gators are junk.

For us, there is nothing that can replace a Toolcat for what ours is used for. Yes, they're expensive, yes they're a pain to work on. But the cost is outweighed by the advantages. However, if I were looking for a machine for sidewalks, a toolcat would not be it.

Bang for the buck, a subcompact tractor on all but the biggest walks in extremely heavy snowfall areas . I'd never go back to a Toolcat for sidewalks after having our 1025.


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## Freshwater

Mark Oomkes said:


> What size "newer" tractor?


1025 and 2305 jd and similar.


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## Freshwater

John_DeereGreen said:


> They're about 6000 pounds. 60" wide.
> 
> Gators are junk.
> 
> For us, there is nothing that can replace a Toolcat for what ours is used for. Yes, they're expensive, yes they're a pain to work on. But the cost is outweighed by the advantages. However, if I were looking for a machine for sidewalks, a toolcat would not be it.
> 
> Bang for the buck, a subcompact tractor on all but the biggest walks in extremely heavy snowfall areas . I'd never go back to a Toolcat for sidewalks after having our 1025.


The church I got the blade from upgraded to a toolcat, they love it. When their walks are done they move right out into the lot with it to help they're truck. That's a much bigger machine than my skid.


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## ktfbgb

JustJeff said:


> 100"??? Wow. Never would have guessed that. I knew parts of AZ got snow, but I never would have known that places get 100". It's also hard to believe that nobody uses blowers or rotary brooms. To me, it seems like using a bucket is the most inefficient way to move snow. Kind of like a straight blade compared to a V or containment plow. I could see why you don't use a rotary sweeper if you wait until after the storm if there's 12" down already though.


Yep 100" is our average. Not sure if we will hit it this year or not. So far this season as far as plowable events go we have gotten a 4" storm, a 16" storm, a 40" storm, and then the 15" storm on Monday. That's it. I have said on other threads about how we seem to be way behind the curve here on snow management techniques and equipment. Never even see any containment or pusher boxes here. But being on this site is allowing me to scheme and most likely be the first in my area to try some of this stuff that allows you guys to be much more efficient.


Freshwater said:


> I've also considered a 5ft box with backdrag. Again I'm not sure the skid would push it. I have no experience with it.


my 2305 does 9 mph I believe in hi gear. And for snow up to around 6" I can drop the bucket and drive forward at full speed on the straight runs and never have to dump until I get to the end. I think if you had a V blade for it that little machine would push straight through any amount of snow as long as it wasn't deeper than the moldboard.

That's one of the options I'm considering for next season. A CAB, and then a V plow with quick attach for the loader arms. Run through with the V plow, then grab the bucket at the end for the pedestrian ramps, corners, etc. I could triple the amount of sidewalk I do now easily I think. And sidewalks pay much more than plowing roads or small lots.


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## John_DeereGreen

How many square feet of walks are you doing now KFTB?

Freshwater, yes a toolcat is a pretty good size unit. The ROC is 1500 pounds, but they are notorious for lifting well over that. I lifted a shipping container corner with mine that a 2000 pound ROC skid steer tipped up trying to lift, Toolcat did it just fine.


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## ktfbgb

John_DeereGreen said:


> How many square feet of walks are you doing now KFTB?
> 
> Freshwater, yes a toolcat is a pretty good size unit. The ROC is 1500 pounds, but they are notorious for lifting well over that. I lifted a shipping container corner with mine that a 2000 pound ROC skid steer tipped up trying to lift, Toolcat did it just fine.


I'm doing right at 3 miles of 4 foot sidewalk and then about 1000 feet of 5' walk at another account. Then the shovel crew does around 12,000 square feet.


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## John_DeereGreen

All told our 1025 is doing about 70K right now over a dozen different sites. Anywhere from 4 to 10 feet wide. We'll be over double that next season.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'd shoot myself using a bucket to clear any significant length of sidewalk.


Looks like I'm gonna buy you a bucket for sidewalk work..Do you need ammo also??


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Looks like I'm gonna buy you a bucket for sidewalk work..Do you need ammo also??


Always need more ammo.


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## dingybigfoot

We run a 60" bucket on a skid at two sites. Both have monster courtyards and walks, one of them being a pain because they have raised flower beds conveniently placed all over the courtyards. A quick attach V for next year is in the plan. I do like those 1025's though.


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## ktfbgb

John_DeereGreen said:


> All told our 1025 is doing about 70K right now over a dozen different sites. Anywhere from 4 to 10 feet wide. We'll be over double that next season.


what are you running on the 1025?


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## John_DeereGreen

It's got a 60" broom on it but we also have a 47" blower if we ever get a decent snow.


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## ktfbgb

John_DeereGreen said:


> It's got a 60" broom on it but we also have a 47" blower if we ever get a decent snow.


Ah ok.


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## MIDTOWNPC

I had a bobcat v blade and we hated it on the bobcat or the toolcat. You were constantly playing with the lift and tilt for every move of the wings and would miss. The min you hit float you would leave snow. It was especially hard to see on the toolcat. I even find my hla v on my kubota b3000 to wear thru edges faster then on a straight blade. To me i like a better scrape because then my salt goes longer. My sidewalk route is 22 kms from start to return. Its not all plowing but thats just the mapped route. He makes some double and triple passes but if he gets a good scrape the salt makes it bare and lasts longer. 

My toolcat is a 2006. We use it all year route at a mall to do litter pickup. Empty the garbage bags into bucket. Dump into dumpster. No need for a crew to take a truck. One guy does litter. The others get ready to for a cut day and pick litter guy up on way. No heavy lifting. Garbage is now fun. We use to use a diesel artic cat 700 with blade for walks. He was cold wet and sometimes cranky but he made good money.


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## leolkfrm

Mark Oomkes said:


> Always need more ammo.


can never have enough


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## MIDTOWNPC

Just picked this little rig up.


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## On a Call

Let us know what you do...

I did see one on Craigslist

https://thumb.craigslist.org/grd/5950669036.html


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## MIDTOWNPC

dingybigfoot said:


> We run a 60" bucket on a skid at two sites. Both have monster courtyards and walks, one of them being a pain because they have raised flower beds conveniently placed all over the courtyards. A quick attach V for next year is in the plan. I do like those 1025's though.


What about a blade with clip on or fold out wings or box ends. Or even ones made out of rubber just to help contain on the court yard pushes but allow windrowing of sidewalks.


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## On a Call

Not sure about Tool Cats but I do know they are a female dog to repair. I know a guy who picked up two just to make one and getting to different parts of the machine are a son of a female dog.


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## John_DeereGreen

On a Call said:


> Not sure about Tool Cats but I do know they are a female dog to repair. I know a guy who picked up two just to make one and getting to different parts of the machine are a son of a female dog.


Yes, it can be a challenge sometimes. One hydraulic hose took about 4 hours to change last spring.


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## Freshwater

Great responses so far. How are you guys hauling these machines site to site? Trailer with ramps, tilt trailer, drive site to site? What are you towing with? 4x4, 2wd, do you carry a plow on the truck? Do you drop the trailer and plow with both truck and machine? How many sites in a night? How spread out are they? What's your average time per site?


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## ktfbgb

I pull mine on a 16 foot two axle flat bed utility trailer. It has Ramps that slide in under the deck. If I were to do it again, and money was not an issue, I would really like to have a goose neck flat bed with hydraulic dovetail. A more practical trailer for my machine would be a flat bed with the built in Ramps on the back that get pinned up when transporting, and fold down when loading. Those ramps are longer, and picking up the Ramps to slide them under the trailer can get a little old, but not a big deal. I only have 4x4 vehicles, and if there is snow on the road I'm in 4x4 pulling the trailer. And I do leave the plow on to pull the trailer. I have a pretty new truck so overheating is not an issue for me. I always watch my temps though. If you have an older truck you just need to watch more closely.


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## Mark Oomkes

Freshwater said:


> Great responses so far. How are you guys hauling these machines site to site? Trailer with ramps, tilt trailer, drive site to site? What are you towing with? 4x4, 2wd, do you carry a plow on the truck? Do you drop the trailer and plow with both truck and machine? How many sites in a night? How spread out are they? What's your average time per site?


So far the tractors stay on site.

I really want a 20-22' box truck for hauling the 1025 that is at the one site aroond town, because I would get more use oot of it. The 3046 is dedicated to the other site.


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## John_DeereGreen

Freshwater said:


> Great responses so far. How are you guys hauling these machines site to site? Trailer with ramps, tilt trailer, drive site to site? What are you towing with? 4x4, 2wd, do you carry a plow on the truck? Do you drop the trailer and plow with both truck and machine? How many sites in a night? How spread out are they? What's your average time per site?


Ours gets driven around. The Snow Plow shovel strapped to the rops. It's route is about a 2 mile loop now, will be a total of 7ish next winter. I can't justify dedicating a truck and trailer to hauling it around when that same truck can be plowing and producing revenue.


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## Freshwater

ktfbgb said:


> I pull mine on a 16 foot two axle flat bed utility trailer. It has Ramps that slide in under the deck. If I were to do it again, and money was not an issue, I would really like to have a goose neck flat bed with hydraulic dovetail. A more practical trailer for my machine would be a flat bed with the built in Ramps on the back that get pinned up when transporting, and fold down when loading. Those ramps are longer, and picking up the Ramps to slide them under the trailer can get a little old, but not a big deal. I only have 4x4 vehicles, and if there is snow on the road I'm in 4x4 pulling the trailer. And I do leave the plow on to pull the trailer. I have a pretty new truck so overheating is not an issue for me. I always watch my temps though. If you have an older truck you just need to watch more closely.


Man that's a big trailer to be tugging in the winter. I've got my 18 foot deck triaxle, I'd have to haul 2 machines (I may buy a second little skid) to make it worth it. Local member runs 2 s70 bobcats, they ride on small tilt trailers, and each have there own route.


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## Freshwater

Mark Oomkes said:


> So far the tractors stay on site.
> 
> I really want a 20-22' box truck for hauling the 1025 that is at the one site aroond town, because I would get more use oot of it. The 3046 is dedicated to the other site.


I've thought about finding the right site and parking it there. Then just running blowers every where else. It would be the simplest way. Haul it around the next day for city walks on the big storms or the late morning storms when we can't get to them.


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## Freshwater

John_DeereGreen said:


> Ours gets driven around. The Snow Plow shovel strapped to the rops. It's route is about a 2 mile loop now, will be a total of 7ish next winter. I can't justify dedicating a truck and trailer to hauling it around when that same truck can be plowing and producing revenue.


I've thought about dropping the trailer at each site and plowing with both at each site it handles. Pick the right sites and the right amount of sites and go.


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## Freshwater

Mark I like the box truck idea. My machine would fit in a small one, if it was tall enough. Monster sidewalk rig. What king of ramp system have you thought about?


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## Mark Oomkes




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## Mr.Markus

Mark Oomkes said:


> So far the tractors stay on site.
> 
> I really want a 20-22' box truck for hauling the 1025 that is at the one site aroond town, because I would get more use oot of it. The 3046 is dedicated to the other site.


If I didn't do snow I would look into one of the super lawn trucks or building something similar myself.
I really like the application of locking stuff up,mobile garage and auxiliary fuel tanks.


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## Mark Oomkes

Mr.Markus said:


> If I didn't do snow I would look into one of the super lawn trucks or building something similar myself.
> I really like the application of locking stuff up,mobile garage and auxiliary fuel tanks.


The pic of the ramp I posted is an old U-Haul truck. Pretty decent deal on it. As an aside, they sold it to us as a 5.4......turns oot it's a V10.

Anyways, we run one sidewalk crew oot of it...the ZSpray. Generally a 1 man mowing crew in the summer. We can fit 2 Grandstands and a Hurricane blower in it. Works fantastic.

The ramp has spring assist and is split. Obviously the whole thing would have to be longer for a 20-22' box truck.


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> The pic of the ramp I posted is an old U-Haul truck. Pretty decent deal on it. As an aside, they sold it to us as a 5.4......turns oot it's a V10.
> 
> Anyways, we run one sidewalk crew oot of it...the ZSpray. Generally a 1 man mowing crew in the summer. We can fit 2 Grandstands and a Hurricane blower in it. Works fantastic.
> 
> The ramp has spring assist and is split. Obviously the whole thing would have to be longer for a 20-22' box truck.


Running a mow crew out of it would be feasible and make it justifiable to have a box truck.


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## Freshwater

Mark Oomkes said:


> View attachment 171208


How tall are those boxes inside?


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## Mark Oomkes

Freshwater said:


> How tall are those boxes inside?


Buzzy tall.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> View attachment 171208


One question.....Wheres the Jagoff lights???


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> One question.....Wheres the Jagoff lights???


One truck at a time.

The new Hellcat 2500 is next on the list.


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## dingybigfoot

MIDTOWNPC said:


> What about a blade with clip on or fold out wings or box ends. Or even ones made out of rubber just to help contain on the court yard pushes but allow windrowing of sidewalks.


Clip on with box ends would be super efficient.


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## dingybigfoot

We drive ours from site to site. The sites are close enough. But as you start to spread out that changes. We've been looking at box trucks since last Fall. Box trucks set up the right way are nice for shovel crews.


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## Freshwater

MIDTOWNPC said:


> What about a blade with clip on or fold out wings or box ends. Or even ones made out of rubber just to help contain on the court yard pushes but allow windrowing of sidewalks.


I've always thought the cage system would be better served on the smaller machines. Too bad they don't make a 60".


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## On a Call

Mark...ever think of installing a heater inside the box ?

How much weight .... better yet, what are your weight limits ? 

I really like that gate...did you build it ???


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Buzzy tall.


Ef that's a E-350 size I can't stand up in them...
BTW looks like your guys are cutting into your profit margin bi spilling bagged salt on the floor and ramp.


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## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Ef that's a E-350 size I can't stand up in them...
> BTW looks like your guys are cutting into your profit margin bi spilling bagged salt on the floor and ramp.


Eye'll measure door height eventually.

Din't want any ice inside.............


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## Mark Oomkes

Mark Oomkes said:


> Eye'll measure door height eventually.
> 
> Din't want any ice inside.............


Door height is 75"

Interior height is 85".

We tried leaving the cab part of the 1025 on the beavertail but it didn't work. I can't remember the cab height on the 1025 right oof hand.

Still using our Dakota and a small trailer for 1 sidewalk crew because I don't have Buzzy's money, but these box trucks are the ONLY way to go for sidewalk crews.


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Door height is 75"
> 
> Interior height is 85".
> 
> We tried leaving the cab part of the 1025 on the beavertail but it didn't work. I can't remember the cab height on the 1025 right oof hand.
> 
> Still using our Dakota and a small trailer for 1 sidewalk crew because I don't have Buzzy's money, but these box trucks are the ONLY way to go for sidewalk crews.


The door wood clip me at the tip of my nose, inside wood probably knock my hat oof and woodent have mulch room for error.


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## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> The door wood clip me at the tip of my nose, inside wood probably knock my hat oof and woodent have mulch room for error.


Maybe ewe should loose the high heels.........

Eye half two duck if I'm on the Grandstand or ZSpray........or suffer yet another concussion.


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## John_DeereGreen

I got the response earlier, but why didn't it work leaving the cab part hanging out?


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> I got the response earlier, but why didn't it work leaving the cab part hanging out?


Not long enough with the spreader.


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not long enough with the spreader.


How long is the box part of your box truck?


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> How long is the box part of your box truck?


UHaul says 17'....but in reality it's 16'.

Then again, they said it was a V8. lol


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> UHaul says 17'....but in reality it's 16'.
> 
> Then again, they said it was a V8. lol


And your 1025 won't fit with drop spreader? I measured ours and it was (I think) 13' to the back of the 3 point arms.

How long is it from front of broom to back of spreader?


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Maybe ewe should loose the high heels.........
> 
> Eye half two duck if I'm on the Grandstand or ZSpray........or suffer yet another concussion.


 Only heels I have are on my hay burner riding boots, don't need altitude additives to ride the roller coaster......


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## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Only heels I have are on my hay burner riding boots, don't need altitude additives to ride the roller coaster......


Sez ewe


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> And your 1025 won't fit with drop spreader? I measured ours and it was (I think) 13' to the back of the 3 point arms.
> 
> How long is it from front of broom to back of spreader?


I don't know......but I do know it doesn't fit.

16/17' box minus 4' for 2 pallets of salt plus broom, hitch, tractor, 3 point and spreader equals it doesn't fit.


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't know......but I do know it doesn't fit.
> 
> 16/17' box minus 4' for 2 pallets of salt plus broom, hitch, tractor, 3 point and spreader equals it doesn't fit.


Ooo. Yes with pallets I can see it easily not fitting. My plan is to fill 55 gallon drums with bulk salt and have them on each side of the broom so the tractor can be pulled all the way to the front of the truck.


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## BUFF

John_DeereGreen said:


> Ooo. Yes with pallets I can see it easily not fitting. My plan is to fill 55 gallon drums with bulk salt and have them on each side of the broom so the tractor can be pulled all the way to the front of the truck.


What ewe do is have a hopper inside the box van that the spreader sits under. You load the hopper through a trap door on the ruff with a loader. This wood make loading the spreader easy and ewe'r not giving up floor space.


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## John_DeereGreen

BUFF said:


> What ewe do is have a hopper inside the box van that the spreader sits under. You load the hopper through a trap door on the ruff with a loader. This wood make loading the spreader easy and ewe'r not giving up floor space.


Something like this:

http://www.vestilmfg.com/products/mhequip/hoppers_chute.htm

That could be made from stainless steel in the 1-1.5 yard capacity range, and at the correct height to just back the spreader under it and slowly open to refill. It would need some kind of door like a grain gravity wagon to control the salt flow. Build it so that it has forklift pockets, easily removable from a side door in the box truck body to refill with bulk salt and put it back in.


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## BUFF

Doubt a "oof the shelf" hopper wood work and it'd have to be custom to get the most capacity in the available space.
Could be gravity feed which wood the most economical route but a PITA having to load if you had to load multiple times at a property. Could use an auger that exits oot the side wall of the box with a chute like used on cement mixer going to the drop spreader.
Also for loading the hopper in the box truck a grain auger may be a better way to go since it's require a smaller opening in the roof along with not requiring a loader.
All of this just takes money.


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## John_DeereGreen

BUFF said:


> Doubt a "oof the shelf" hopper wood work and it'd have to be custom to get the most capacity in the available space.
> Could be gravity feed which wood the most economical route but a PITA having to load if you had to load multiple times at a property. Could use an auger that exits oot the side wall of the box with a chute like used on cement mixer going to the drop spreader.
> Also for loading the hopper in the box truck a grain auger may be a better way to go since it's require a smaller opening in the roof along with not requiring a loader.
> All of this just takes money.


I'm all for simple.

I'd have a custom hopper built from stainless steel or mild steel and use something like POR15 except meant to go on bare in rusted metal and have it shaped like a gravity wagon inside. 2 yards would be plenty for a sidewalk route. If they ever ran low we have multiple salt trucks out, and 2 bins in town to reload from.

I feel like having it on a stand that can be taken in and out with a fork lift or skid steer would be better, that way you can take it out, refill with bulk salt and skid steer bucket, and then put it back in. This way there's no holes in the roof of the truck either.

Based on the coverage Oomkes is getting out of his drop spreaders, we would only have 1 property that could possibly need a refill part way though.

Hell, even filling the drop spreader out of 55 gallon plastic drums with 5 gallon buckets would be light years ahead of how everyone else locally does sidewalk salting. The above contraption would be like space shuttle complexity levels around here.


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## BUFF

John_DeereGreen said:


> I'm all for simple.
> 
> I'd have a custom hopper built from stainless steel or mild steel and use something like POR15 except meant to go on bare in rusted metal and have it shaped like a gravity wagon inside. 2 yards would be plenty for a sidewalk route. If they ever ran low we have multiple salt trucks out, and 2 bins in town to reload from.
> 
> I feel like having it on a stand that can be taken in and out with a fork lift or skid steer would be better, that way you can take it out, refill with bulk salt and skid steer bucket, and then put it back in. This way there's no holes in the roof of the truck either.
> 
> Based on the coverage Oomkes is getting out of his drop spreaders, we would only have 1 property that could possibly need a refill part way though.
> 
> Hell, even filling the drop spreader out of 55 gallon plastic drums with 5 gallon buckets would be light years ahead of how everyone else locally does sidewalk salting. The above contraption would be like space shuttle complexity levels around here.


2yds is quite a bit if weight, what happened to "2" 55gal drums.
Unless you're going to us a full size box truck there's no way you're getting a skid or forklift in the box. Also doubt the floor would support the weight of a skid or forklift empty let alone with 2yds of salt plus the hopper weight.

Don't see why it'd be considered space shuttle technology, seems pretty simple and no more complex than a grain cart.


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## John_DeereGreen

BUFF said:


> 2yds is quite a bit if weight, what happened to "2" 55gal drums.
> Unless you're going to us a full size box truck there's no way you're getting a skid or forklift in the box. Also doubt the floor would support the weight of a skid or forklift empty let alone with 2yds of salt plus the hopper weight.
> 
> Don't see why it'd be considered space shuttle technology, seems pretty simple and no more complex than a grain cart.


Just an F550 size box truck is what I'm looking at. With a curb side/passenger side swinging door in it. Skiddy/fork lift would never be in the truck, the hopper would be loaded from the side. A yard hopper would be big enough I suppose. Could get a Saltmutt 3/4 or 1 yard spreader for the task. Then we could refill from outside the truck with a chute like you were talking about. Or I would guess that a 6-8 foot piece of 3 inch lay flat water pump hose would allow salt to flow by gravity?

Might be cheaper than building a custom hopper, too.

Everyone here uses 5 gallon buckets and grain scoops to salt sidewalks. So an operation like this would be extremely complex. We could also use it to refill our Epoke walk behind drop spreader too.


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## BUFF

John_DeereGreen said:


> Just an F550 size box truck is what I'm looking at. With a curb side/passenger side swinging door in it. Skiddy/fork lift would never be in the truck, the hopper would be loaded from the side. A yard hopper would be big enough I suppose. Could get a Saltmutt 3/4 or 1 yard spreader for the task. Then we could refill from outside the truck with a chute like you were talking about. Or I would guess that a 6-8 foot piece of 3 inch lay flat water pump hose would allow salt to flow by gravity?
> 
> Might be cheaper than building a custom hopper, too.
> 
> Everyone here uses 5 gallon buckets and grain scoops to salt sidewalks. So an operation like this would be extremely complex. We could also use it to refill our Epoke walk behind drop spreader too.


Going from a E-350 U-Haul box van to a F550 with a curb side door wide enough to side load a hopper or SaltMutt is a pretty big jump and probably tough to find. If ewe did find one ewe'd pay a premium for it yet ew'r hung up on the cost of a custom hopper. 
Still don't see how a hopper with auger fed that can be auger loaded is complex, do folks back there find their spouses at family reunions?:laugh:


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## John_DeereGreen

BUFF said:


> Going from a E-350 U-Haul box van to a F550 with a curb side door wide enough to side load a hopper or SaltMutt is a pretty big jump and probably tough to find. If ewe did find one ewe'd pay a premium for it yet ew'r hung up on the cost of a custom hopper.
> Still don't see how a hopper with auger fed that can be auger loaded is complex, do folks back there find their spouses at family reunions?:laugh:


I dont recall ever saying I was looking at u hauls or any other specifics, other than a box truck? More than likely it would be a new truck anyway so customizing it wouldn't be an issue.

And no issues with cost...just different options. Trouble is picking the best one. Most generally it's the one with the fewest things to confuse employees.


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## BUFF

John_DeereGreen said:


> I dont recall ever saying I was looking at u hauls or any other specifics, other than a box truck? More than likely it would be a new truck anyway so customizing it wouldn't be an issue.
> 
> And no issues with cost...just different options. Trouble is picking the best one. Most generally it's the one with the fewest things to confuse employees.


Going back several post ewe had a questioned Ookamonkey several times aboot in length of the box van about why thing woodent fit. After several back and forth ewe finally got it. This is when brought up using 55gallon drums with bulk rather than skids of bagged witch wood open up floor space. At this point I jumped in and suggested a hopper inside the box. Based on what transpired in the back and forth and no mention of anything udder than a E350 Uhaul I was under the impression the E350 was still the rig.

Must bee knice not worrying aboot cost...... enjoy it while you can.


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## John_DeereGreen

BUFF said:


> Going back several post ewe had a questioned Ookamonkey several times aboot in length of the box van about why thing woodent fit. After several back and forth ewe finally got it. This is when brought up using 55gallon drums with bulk rather than skids of bagged witch wood open up floor space. At this point I jumped in and suggested a hopper inside the box. Based on what transpired in the back and forth and no mention of anything udder than a E350 Uhaul I was under the impression the E350 was still the rig.
> 
> Must bee knice not worrying aboot cost...... enjoy it while you can.


Yes, yes, I can see why you would assume that looking back. It makes sense. Sorry for that impression. I was just questioning box length so that we can get the shortest setup possible.

Maybe "no concern" of cost is a bad way of putting it...I'm all for efficiency. If I've learned anything since I've been in this industry, it's that buying used vehicles rarely pans out for the luck in my favor. More than once we've ended up with more than the cost of new in something by purchasing used.


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## BUFF

John_DeereGreen said:


> Yes, yes, I can see why you would assume that looking back. It makes sense. Sorry for that impression. I was just questioning box length so that we can get the shortest setup possible.
> 
> Maybe "no concern" of cost is a bad way of putting it...I'm all for efficiency. If I've learned anything since I've been in this industry, it's that buying used vehicles rarely pans out for the luck in my favor. More than once we've ended up with more than the cost of new in something by purchasing used.


When buying ewsed patients es everyting.........


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## John_DeereGreen

BUFF said:


> When buying ewsed patients es everyting.........


Hospitals have patients. I'm not a doctor or a hospital.

Perhaps that's why I have issues.

Either way, new works better at least from the experience (while limited compared to some on here) I've had. One exception I'd make to that is medium and heavy duty trucks, anything 26k GVW and greater.


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> Ooo. Yes with pallets I can see it easily not fitting. My plan is to fill 55 gallon drums with bulk salt and have them on each side of the broom so the tractor can be pulled all the way to the front of the truck.


#1 Y wood ewe ruin 2 perfectly gud future plows using them to store salt?
#2 Wut es wrong wit bagged salt?

So you're going to load 2 gud future plows wit salt..........moove dem into da truck. Then, half 2 moove da salt from da 2 gud plows to da spreader. All whilst digging da salt oot of da future plow?

Oar....ewe can moove da pallets into da truck wit a forktruck\Dingo\skidsteer\pallet jack and then load da spreader wit da bags. No digging or loading drums dat will make perfectly gud plows down da road.


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## John_DeereGreen

Bagged salt is way too expensive to run through a spreader and onto sidewalks...We usta spread bagged rock salt on sidewalks...$400-$500 a storm in product vs $50-$100 that to me is worth spending a little time and money up front for the long term savings.

So say we average 26 walk services per season (which we do)...and take an average of $450 per service in bagged product. 450X26=11700. Now take an average of $75 in bulk salt. 75X26=1950. So in an average winter we save 9750.00. Damn, never run the numbers on it till now, that's even more money than I was expecting. I knew it was significant though. And we don't really have that many sidewalks compared to some.

When it gets really cold (15* or colder) we do use Peladow. It's a pain in the ass dealing with all the bags, skids, etc.


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## Freshwater

John_DeereGreen said:


> Bagged salt is way too expensive to run through a spreader and onto sidewalks...We usta spread bagged rock salt on sidewalks...$400-$500 a storm in product vs $50-$100 that to me is worth spending a little time and money up front for the long term savings.
> 
> So say we average 26 walk services per season (which we do)...and take an average of $450 per service in bagged product. 450X26=11700. Now take an average of $75 in bulk salt. 75X26=1950. So in an average winter we save 9750.00. Damn, never run the numbers on it till now, that's even more money than I was expecting. I knew it was significant though. And we don't really have that many sidewalks compared to some.
> 
> When it gets really cold (15* or colder) we do use Peladow. It's a pain in the ass dealing with all the bags, skids, etc.


Just think of the guys that salt their lots with bagged salt. 
We still salt our side walks by hand, we have almost 0 waste that way.
Bulk salt on most , and pure melt(blue stuff) from John deere landscape for the rest.


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## Freshwater

Love the great ideas being posted. Just remember those truck boxes are only so strong.


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## Mark Oomkes

Strength of the box........center of gravity.........augers\hoppers\etc being more complicated than a pallet and box cutter.

Not to mention, the sidewalk product is specifically designed for walks. It's got some great foo-foo dust on it.


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Strength of the box........center of gravity.........augers\hoppers\etc being more complicated than a pallet and box cutter.
> 
> Not to mention, the sidewalk product is specifically designed for walks. It's got some great foo-foo dust on it.


Wood you be more receptive to using a hot water heater, rope and shelf brackets......

For those that cost isn't an issue a F-550 with a hook bed that's designed for sidewalk crew. Drop the bed on the ground for easy loading/unload on site, you'd have the ability load the salt hopper withoot a lot of hassle. You could use central hydraulics to run a auger unload the hopper to the spreader or once the equipment is unloaded pull the bed back on the truck and use a V-box spreader mounted sideways (without the spinner) to carry salt.

I only used bagged for the reasons you mentioned. Using bulk is tough on walks, more so with aggregate, vegetation and it's more apt to track into the building. Use the right product for the application and charge accordingly.
JDL/Site One oot here will sell a semi-load of bagged for aboot $1.75~ pe bag less that skid price. They'll also have the load dropped shipped to your place too. OOT here if your shop is in an unincorporated area of the county you only pay 2.9% to the state and any county tax (.65% for my county). Where I'm at I pay 3.3% sales tax.


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## John_DeereGreen

No one around here wants to spend the money for sidewalk specific products unless it's really cold. They'd rather you put down 3 times as much bulk salt.



Mark Oomkes said:


> It's got some great foo-foo dust on it.


Pixie Dust...my Disney fan wife will require the use of sidewalk salt with foo-foo dust on it if you tell her this tomorrow. Shhh!


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## BUFF

John_DeereGreen said:


> No one around here wants to spend the money for sidewalk specific products unless it's really cold. They'd rather you put down 3 times as much bulk salt.


So you're customers don't mind dead vegetation, crumbling concrete sidewalks and along with salt being carrying indoors on peoples shoes.
No wonder anything more complex than a bucket and grain shovel is too mulch for folks there...:hammerhead:


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## John_DeereGreen

BUFF said:


> So you're customers don't mind dead vegetation, crumbling concrete sidewalks and along with salt being carrying indoors on peoples shoes.
> No wonder anything more complex than a bucket and grain shovel is too mulch for folks there...:hammerhead:


Expectations here are a lot different than out west. First priority is slip and falls. Concrete, grass, and landscape plants can be replaced. Now that doesn't mean to intentionally salt beds for job security, but as long as no one is falling and getting hurt everyone is pretty well content.


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## JD Dave

We only use bulk salt for sidewalks and even on very high need places we have very little damage to vegetation or compamints about tracking. We also have four seperate sidewalks machines running and put down around 4-6 ton per storm on walks.


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## John_DeereGreen

99% of the complaints we get are tracking issues. We offer a solution, so far only one retail customer has wanted to spend the extra money to avoid it.

4-6 ton per storm...on WALKS! Let me guess, you use electric spreaders for all those sidewalks, just like parking lots.

:laugh::laugh:


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## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> inside wood probably knock my hat oof


Maybe you need a shorter hat..........instead of these:










Or










Or....


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## BUFF

Sumher I wear a 7x straw hat, whinter it's a ball cap type hat.


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## Goodnyou

Back to the original question . I have a 36 in s70 . Bought it with the 36 bucket , snowblower 48 in brush and 54 inch plow . All bobcat brand attachments . Haven't used the blower or brush much . The plow is unbelievable . I put the expensive poly edge on it and cut it two two inches longer than the moldboard. The best thing about a skid is the downpressure you can put on it. It scrapes clean . 2 seasons and approximately 100 hours on the plow and I bet I easily get another 100 out of the edge .i bet I would have gone through a few metal edges which appeared flimsy I'm very hard on my equipment if it will lead to increased production. It was pricey but it lasts and works great . I couldn't imagine doing it all with a bucket . I bet I would have put my head through the windshield with a bucket and no trip . Plow will only push the machine sideways if you hit a huge pile at an angle . It will stack snow really high by lifting the arms at the end . Way higher than a truck with fisher had. I'm all about doing things as efficiently as possible even if it costs more . If it saves time I'm buying it . I also had a 5 ft push box made for an account that has a 200ft push to put all the snow in. It works good but it's alot to ask for a small machine to push if it's heavy .


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