# What would you bid for this?



## MSsnowplowing

Already put my bid in, just interested in what others think.

Simple plowing 2 inch mark, salt/sand after a storm and depending on conditions during on the slight incline they have as they have a lot of tractor trailers show up for pick up.

So you need to be on site and plowing with the storm.

I figured two trucks and a skid steer when needed for the back lot where they store the product.

The red is what needs to be cleared.
Simple roadway, lot in the middle and then the back area -(that is the pita factor)

They wanted a seasonal rate.


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## John_DeereGreen

Square footage would help. 

It must be a lot bigger than it looks, or you get a **** ton of snow for 2 trucks plus a skid steer to be on site constantly.


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## MSsnowplowing

John_DeereGreen;2035420 said:


> Square footage would help.
> 
> It must be a lot bigger than it looks, or you get a **** ton of snow for 2 trucks plus a skid steer to be on site constantly.


It is 10 acres.

Only running the two trucks during the storm, then one guy in the skid steer for the clean up and the other in a truck. Sorry for the confusion.


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## John_DeereGreen

I don't agree with what you're putting there...

But with that equipment, I'd bid it for 5 hours per 2 inches, plus 1 hour cleanup. Apply your hourly rate as you see fit.

If it were me, I'd put a skid and push box full time, and a truck as needed. Just me.


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## 1olddogtwo

It appears to have a heated pavement, should be easy money....


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## MSsnowplowing

John_DeereGreen;2035689 said:


> I don't agree with what you're putting there...
> 
> But with that equipment, I'd bid it for 5 hours per 2 inches, plus 1 hour cleanup. Apply your hourly rate as you see fit.
> 
> If it were me, I'd put a skid and push box full time, and a truck as needed. Just me.


I figured around 6-8 hrs,
the back area has to be cleaned out in amongst the containers they have stored there and pushed to the edges. That is the pita factor and most time consuming. If I just had a skid steer there it would take longer.

No per push they wanted a seasonal price

And the pavement is not heated, that would have been nice.


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## Superior L & L

10 acres minus the building and containers I'm assuming ?


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## John_DeereGreen

MSsnowplowing;2035701 said:


> I figured around 6-8 hrs,
> the back area has to be cleaned out in amongst the containers they have stored there and pushed to the edges. That is the pita factor and most time consuming. If I just had a skid steer there it would take longer.
> 
> No per push they wanted a seasonal price
> 
> And the pavement is not heated, that would have been nice.


Except cleaning around the containers is where a skid steer and pusher will make a truck look stupid. In fact, the only part of that lot a skid steer and push box wouldn't make a truck look stupid is the entrance.

If you're planning on 6-8 hours for a 2 inch snow, you either need to re evaluate the equipment on site, or your ability to estimate time. I don't see why a skid steer and 10 foot push box couldn't handle that by it's self in 5 hours with 2 inches of snow. Plus an hour of dickaround cleanup time if needed. Unless there's something major I'm missing.

And one last thing...how could someone come up with a seasonal rate unless they first had a per push rate to calculate from? I'm not going to give you a price, that's pointless. You're in MA, I'm in OH. Might be half, might be double. Who knows?



Superior L & L;2035706 said:


> 10 acres minus the building and containers I'm assuming ?


My time estimate assumes ~25% is occupied by containers/building etc.


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## 1olddogtwo

Smallest 10 I've seen in a while....those units ever move? What are they?

A skid with pusher and bucket 5-6 hrs tops on a 4in event 

Chances are they don't need 24 hr plowing... Let the skid work all night and put trucks on other lots making $$$

Maximize the steel hitting pavement.


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## ss502gmc

$120,000 for the season with salt


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## John_DeereGreen

Holy **** I'm moving to Bridgewater


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## MSsnowplowing

1olddogtwo;2035746 said:


> Smallest 10 I've seen in a while....those units ever move? What are they?
> 
> A skid with pusher and bucket 5-6 hrs tops on a 4in event
> 
> Chances are they don't need 24 hr plowing... Let the skid work all night and put trucks on other lots making $$$
> 
> Maximize the steel hitting pavement.


Interesting, of course my skid steer only has a bucket and its open.
Don't know if I want to put a guy in a open skid during a snow storm, that's why two trucks,.
That back area is really a pita, they move that stuff around and it changes every few days.
But I am going to look at a pusher for the skid.
Thanks for the info


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## Defcon 5

ss502gmc;2035771 said:


> $120,000 for the season with salt


That's your bid????..Let us know how that one turns out


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## MSsnowplowing

John_DeereGreen;2035774 said:


> Holy **** I'm moving to Bridgewater


I'm with you on that, wish I could get that for that


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## MSsnowplowing

John_DeereGreen;2035718 said:


> Except cleaning around the containers is where a skid steer and pusher will make a truck look stupid. In fact, the only part of that lot a skid steer and push box wouldn't make a truck look stupid is the entrance.
> 
> If you're planning on 6-8 hours for a 2 inch snow, you either need to re evaluate the equipment on site, or your ability to estimate time. I don't see why a skid steer and 10 foot push box couldn't handle that by it's self in 5 hours with 2 inches of snow. Plus an hour of dickaround cleanup time if needed. Unless there's something major I'm missing.
> 
> And one last thing...how could someone come up with a seasonal rate unless they first had a per push rate to calculate from? I'm not going to give you a price, that's pointless. You're in MA, I'm in OH. Might be half, might be double. Who knows?
> 
> My time estimate assumes ~25% is occupied by containers/building etc.


We average around 15-18 storms a year averaging between 52-65 inches of snow
Out of all those storms we might get 1 that's 1 2" storm, the rest being 3-12 inches.
My time is based on 4 inches.
And like I said that back area is a real pita and my skid is open, not putting a guy in it during a storm. 
Could I do it with 1 truck and then a skid steer, yes but as this would be a new contract, I prefer to put two truck on it for the first few storms then reevaluate. 
And i would rather figure in an extra hour or two than under time it


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## John_DeereGreen

Is the skid a 2 speed? If it is, I'd be tempted to throw one of those cheapy vinyl cabs on it and an aftermarket heater in the cab that uses engine coolant. If it's not a 2 speed, ignore my skid thoughts about using it alone. I could still see it being useful to clean around the containers and then use a truck to move snow to stacking areas.

I still maintain that it'll be a 5 hour push and no more than an hour for cleanup. I think it'll go faster than that personally but without seeing it in person it's tough to tell.

We bid seasonals per push price X average number of pushes plus per salting price X (1.5 X average number of pushes) Some years you come out a little under budgeted pushes/saltings, some years you don't. It's tough to lose money on seasonal, unless you include any needed offsite hauling. That can kill you fast.

Good luck.


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## MSsnowplowing

John_DeereGreen;2035943 said:


> Is the skid a 2 speed? If it is, I'd be tempted to throw one of those cheapy vinyl cabs on it and an aftermarket heater in the cab that uses engine coolant. If it's not a 2 speed, ignore my skid thoughts about using it alone. I could still see it being useful to clean around the containers and then use a truck to move snow to stacking areas.
> 
> I still maintain that it'll be a 5 hour push and no more than an hour for cleanup. I think it'll go faster than that personally but without seeing it in person it's tough to tell.
> 
> We bid seasonals per push price X average number of pushes plus per salting price X (1.5 X average number of pushes) Some years you come out a little under budgeted pushes/saltings, some years you don't. It's tough to lose money on seasonal, unless you include any needed offsite hauling. That can kill you fast.
> 
> Good luck.


The one I wanted was a tad bit expensive and would have done exactly what you are talking about, but I bought what I could pay cash for, nothing fancy and a little slow but it will get the job done.

And you could be spot on with the time,

My gut instinct tells me half hour to 1 hour for the roads, around the building with the loading docks and the almost wide open area.
Depends on the time and how many tractor trailers we are dodging to push snow.

The back section can range from 3-5 hours depending on what they have stored there.

I'm sure the first few storms will be longer than normal until we get a feel for the place.

I do the same for pricing but I look at the last 5 years of total snow fall and average it out.

It is usually within plus or minus 3-6 inches of the snow fall we get so it works out pretty well for pricing.

I don't worry about major snow fall because I learned from Nemo and all my contracts now have the clause that any one storm over 15 inches the client pays X amount per 1-3.

Edit -( I put it in my contract for all seasonal pricing, skid steer work is a extra cost, never had to haul out snow even during the big ones.)

Here is exactly what I put in my contracts:

*Additional Costs that may occur for Seasonal service or Per Storm pricing*

*Major Blizzards for Seasonal service*
Any one storm over 15 inches there will be additional costs:
For over 15 inches, there will be additional cost of $_____ every 1 to 3 inches for plowing.
For over 15 inches, there will be additional cost of $_____ every 1 to 3 inches for sidewalks.

*Extra Plowing - (service call)*
If you ask us to come back the following day after we have been there and cleaned up the roadways and parking spots, there will be an additional charge for this; it will be a cost of $_____ an hour, minimum 1 hour.

*Extra Sanding for Roadways and Parking Lots - (service call)*
In the event that additional sanding is needed on non-storm days for melt off from roofs, drains, etc...
Said application will cost $_______ per application

*Melt Off, Icy Conditions for sidewalks - (service call)*
Salting for icy conditions on non-storm days for melt off from roofs, drains, etc... 
It will be at a cost of $_____ an hour, minimum 1 hour and a cost of product of $20 dollars per bag used.

*Skid steer usage for clearing and relocating snow - (service call)*
Machine cost is $________ for pick up and drop of the machine, diesel fuel used, etc...
It will be at a cost of $________ an hour, minimum time 2 hours.

Any of these service calls would only be completed upon verbal orders from you or your site manager.

Thanks and you have a great season too.


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## John_DeereGreen

Looks like you've got your bases covered pretty good. 

The only caps we put on our seasonal work is a blizzard clause. Never had much issue with recalls etc, we do site checks daily during winter any time there's snow on the ground, we always hit trouble spots when we're there.

Let us know the outcome if you get it after you've pushed it a few times.


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## MSsnowplowing

John_DeereGreen;2036047 said:


> Looks like you've got your bases covered pretty good.
> 
> The only caps we put on our seasonal work is a blizzard clause. Never had much issue with recalls etc, we do site checks daily during winter any time there's snow on the ground, we always hit trouble spots when we're there.
> 
> Let us know the outcome if you get it after you've pushed it a few times.


You have to put a blizzard clause in for major storms over 14 inches, I know guys that do it for any storm over 12 inches -(thus my 15 and above, gives me a 3 inch edge on pricing )

Site checks is one thing I do not do, I only go to site during the snow storms and next day clean up.
My lawyer advised me not to do that as you can be considered maintenance and you are more responsible for any type of slip and fall for the entire season.

Example:
Your lot is cleared, salted, it's black top.

Someone drives in and snow falls off by a entrance from under their car or off their roof, and someone walks out and slips and falls on it, you own it even if it hadn't snowed in days.

Snow melts from the roof and drains out into the parking lot and freezes during the night and is black ice in the morning -(has not snowed in a week), if someone slips and falls you own it.

And you know, that little bit of only going to a site during a snow storm saved my bacon on my first slip and fall lawsuit.

I tell the site owner or their manager if something like that happens they can call me and I will take care of it but otherwise it is their responsibly to keep a eye on the site.

And don't get me wrong, most of my sites I'm driving by going somewhere else and If I see something out of whack, I pull in and take care of it, but I would never put it in writing that i do daily checks. Thumbs Up


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## John_DeereGreen

I see it as no matter what happens in a slip and fall, we will be named in a lawsuit. I'd rather be able to document with GPS that we were there and serviced trouble spots than to say sorry, site manager should have called us.

I think you guys are a lot more liable for slip and falls up there than we are here. It's tough to win a slip and fall claim in OH.


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## MSsnowplowing

John_DeereGreen;2036238 said:


> I see it as no matter what happens in a slip and fall, we will be named in a lawsuit. I'd rather be able to document with GPS that we were there and serviced trouble spots than to say sorry, site manager should have called us.
> 
> I think you guys are a lot more liable for slip and falls up there than we are here. It's tough to win a slip and fall claim in OH.


Your right us being more liable for slip and falls, New Jersy and New York have it even worse.

I think people in those states can't wait for winter so they can slip, fall and sue to get money out of the insurance companies.

And CT is not that far behind.

We really need some common sense laws in regards to slip and falls, I mean it is winter time and it does get slippery.

What they need to do is counter sue in cases where it is clearly the persons fault and not the building owners or the plow guys.

That would cut down on lawsuits.

have a good winter. payup


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## John_DeereGreen

MSsnowplowing;2036356 said:


> Your right us being more liable for slip and falls, New Jersy and New York have it even worse.
> 
> I think people in those states can't wait for winter so they can slip, fall and sue to get money out of the insurance companies.
> 
> And CT is not that far behind.
> 
> We really need some common sense laws in regards to slip and falls, I mean it is winter time and it does get slippery.
> 
> What they need to do is counter sue in cases where it is clearly the persons fault and not the building owners or the plow guys.
> 
> That would cut down on lawsuits.
> 
> have a good winter. payup


Common sense? Our current government and legal system? :laughing::laughing:

What happened to people living up to and owning their mistakes? Why live up to them when we can just sue and get money for our stupidity!

Enjoy your season!


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## Joseph35

what area in Ma is it? Depending on where you are is your accessibility to materials. Can you keep equipment onsite or build bins


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## MSsnowplowing

Joseph35;2038300 said:


> what area in Ma is it? Depending on where you are is your accessibility to materials. Can you keep equipment onsite or build bins


This is in CT not MA, and you can keep product there as long as it is in a container and keep equipment onsite.

Still waiting to hear from them, maybe by Christmas


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## Buswell Forest

No way to get them to store the trailers (or whatever they are) in a more organized and orderly manner? They look scattered, like trying to plow a maze.


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## MSsnowplowing

Buswell Forest;2038533 said:


> No way to get them to store the trailers (or whatever they are) in a more organized and orderly manner? They look scattered, like trying to plow a maze.


That layout in the picture is completely different now.

Still a cluster FK.


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## MSsnowplowing

Update:
Well I got the site last year and I was pretty much on the numbers for time.
I had one truck keeping the roads and parking spots clear for a 6 inch storm it was 2 to 3 hours and then another 3 and 1/2 to 4 hours to clear the back lot with a skidsteer and another truck at storm end.
the product back there was being moved around all the time so you never knew what you would be clearing so one time it could take you 2 hours and another 4 hours kinda of a pita but no public traffic so that was great.


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## MSsnowplowing

Another Update:
They signed on again and because they liked our service and they recommended us to the place right next door to them on the same property and I picked that up also on a 3 year contract.
Now just need it to snow


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