# HLA Snow wing electrical control/install Compact Loader



## jc8 (Oct 15, 2012)

So I'm waiting on delivery of my new to me Volvo 2011 L35B Pro. Has 3rd aux. hydro from Q/C.

I'd like to buy a slightly used HLA Snowing but can't seem to find any info on the electrical/controller side of things. Just a pic in their brochure.

Ideally I would love to be able to buy/adapt some sort of joystick to be able to angle the plow and buttons for the wings. Is the one offered from them good?

Or at least see what other people have?

Thanks,
jamie


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

jc8 said:


> So I'm waiting on delivery of my new to me Volvo 2011 L35B Pro. Has 3rd aux. hydro from Q/C.
> 
> I'd like to buy a slightly used HLA Snowing but can't seem to find any info on the electrical/controller side of things. Just a pic in their brochure.
> 
> ...


It will most likely have an electric over diverter valve.

So your loader joystick will have a button somewhere to send fluid to the front aux valve. You will have two hoses. That will angle the plow left and right. You will then need a three position rocker switch. That will be wired to power and then the two wires come off the valve. When your rocker is in position one you will activate one wing. When it middle you will angle blade when in third position you will move other wing. 
Run the power to a fused link that is preferable keyed. So when key is off no power is going to switch.

If you have electrics in the joystick you can wire into those but sometimes it means you have to hold the button and activate the aux which isn't my favourite.

In a Bobcat we tape the rocker switch to and l bracket onto the joystick and flip it with your thumb.

The older hla plugs from the valve are 4 pin rv trailer plug.

I think I have a package in shop I can get you a pic tomorrow


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## jc8 (Oct 15, 2012)

So in essence rocker switch in position one, joystick will move left wing, rocker in middle does angling, rocker in position 2 will move right wing with joystick?


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## jc8 (Oct 15, 2012)

is there any way, or perhaps a company, that has something like this to control a plow with wings on a loader?


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

For example I could wire it into my bobcat but I would need to use skid steer genius adapter or something for the pin outs to the front controll. On a loader you could see if you have any of those buttons and get the wiring schematics to find where to tap into them but sometimes you have to hold the button to then move the blade wing. That part gets annoying You also have to remember on loader your up and down left and right on joystick are still loader arms up and down and tilt of blade. You have a lot to mess with to get that nice scrape wings set ect 

I had a hla snow wing and I found it hard the first year on a loader tractor. I switched the blade to the same one but edge flex and found it easier as i had a little forgiveness in the attack angle. I’m also a busy plower
I move. Go go go. Slam it jam it let’s hustle
So different terrains are hard to finess that attack angle with some many positions


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

jc8 said:


> is there any way, or perhaps a company, that has something like this to control a plow with wings on a loader?


Yes, but it is going to be a roll your own. Not that difficult.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

MIDTOWNPC said:


> It will most likely have an electric over diverter valve.
> 
> So your loader joystick will have a button somewhere to send fluid to the front aux valve. You will have two hoses. That will angle the plow left and right. You will then need a three position rocker switch. That will be wired to power and then the two wires come off the valve. When your rocker is in position one you will activate one wing. When it middle you will angle blade when in third position you will move other wing.
> Run the power to a fused link that is preferable keyed. So when key is off no power is going to switch.
> ...


Is this the accepted way?

I ran our 244 this morning and it works, but it's really kind of a PITA remembering where the rocker switch is.



Aerospace Eng said:


> Yes, but it is going to be a roll your own. Not that difficult.


Now that we bought our 244, I will be doing something along these lines next summer. As noted above, the rocker switch works, but there has to be something easier with less switching.


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## jc8 (Oct 15, 2012)

I was really hoping you had it figured out from searching....the rocker switch idea, although good, seems like a throw back....I might have to do it if there's no aftermarket option.

I wonder is SSGenius might be able to help?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jc8 said:


> I was really hoping you had it figured out from searching....the rocker switch idea, although good, seems like a throw back....I might have to do it if there's no aftermarket option.
> 
> I wonder is SSGenius might be able to help?


I had my Bobcat dealer install a Bobcat "brain" on my MP that we run on our Bobcat...that way all the switches work with the controllers.

Way back when we ran a Blizzard for the first time on our Toolcat, we had the 2 joysticks, the TC one for angle and up down and the Blizzard one for the wings in and out. What a clusterfoxtrot that was. That was the first time I had the Bobcat dealer install a Bobcat "brain" in a plow. So much nicer, intuitive, etc.

I know Bobcat has their stupid proprietary wiring and hydros, but 2 joysticks is just stupid.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

3 way switch on the dash, left runs the left wing, center runs the main moldboard, right runs the right wing, very simple to flick with your left hand as your steering, and to visually see which position is selected, it's not rocket appliances


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Triple L said:


> 3 way switch on the dash, left runs the left wing, center runs the main moldboard, right runs the right wing, very simple to flick with your left hand as your steering, and to visually see which position is selected, it's not rocket appliances


Sounds like the best case Ontario right there


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Sounds like the best case Ontario right there


Stay thirsty my friend


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Triple L said:


> 3 way switch on the dash, left runs the left wing, center runs the main moldboard, right runs the right wing, very simple to flick with your left hand as your steering, and to visually see which position is selected, it's not rocket appliances


Isn't that basically what the computer geek/plow guy basically suggested? Except it's mounted to the loader joystick in his and my case?

If you're steering with the left hand, how are you pushing switches on the dash? The way we have it set up, one had steers, the other controls F/R, loader joystick and rocker switch for left wing, right wing and angle.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Isn't that basically what the computer geek/plow guy basically suggested? Except it's mounted to the loader joystick in his and my case?
> 
> If you're steering with the left hand, how are you pushing switches on the dash? The way we have it set up, one had steers, the other controls F/R, loader joystick and rocker switch for left wing, right wing and angle.


Unless you're driving perfectly straight your hand swings by the switch quite often and you can flick it over... Just saying, it's a clean install and very simple


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

Ya, using the factory switch left side of steering wheel on my cat, works....


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

https://www.otto-controls.com/


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## collins590 (Dec 31, 2010)

Ive literally been thinking about this for the last while. Im taking delivery of a 5203 next week hopefully, been considering some adaptation of a wisher/western controller and module, wired to the hla solenoids. You would have to tap into the 3rd valve function of the loader if its electric over hydraulic so that it activates the correct hydraulic flow when pushing the buttons.

Could maybe be done with 3 hold to activate rockers as well, one for each wing and one in the middle for scoop and retract. Leave the angling to the third funtion on the loader joystick. You would just have to make sure not to hit more than one function at once or add some protection to the circuit that would prevent that sort of thing.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

It's actually really simple, if the hydraulic flow is there. The old Blizzard shoebox has everything you need.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

collins590 said:


> Ive literally been thinking about this for the last while. Im taking delivery of a 5203 next week hopefully, been considering some adaptation of a wisher/western controller and module, wired to the hla solenoids. You would have to tap into the 3rd valve function of the loader if its electric over hydraulic so that it activates the correct hydraulic flow when pushing the buttons.
> 
> Could maybe be done with 3 hold to activate rockers as well, one for each wing and one in the middle for scoop and retract. Leave the angling to the third funtion on the loader joystick. You would just have to make sure not to hit more than one function at once or add some protection to the circuit that would prevent that sort of thing.


There is no reason it has to use the 3rd function valve.

That might make the initial installation easier, but if it makes the control hard to operate, then invest the time and $$ to get it to what you find productive. Small amounts of time saved every time you start or stop a push add up to a large labor savings.


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## collins590 (Dec 31, 2010)

My biggest concern is machine protection. Being able to wire things so when one function is in use you cant activate another that would use the opposite flow from the machine. Also dont want to damange any of the electrical on the loader as well. Maybe the older style western/fisher v with the 14 pin controller would be easier to adapt.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Aerospace Eng said:


> There is no reason it has to use the 3rd function valve.
> 
> That might make the initial installation easier, but if it makes the control hard to operate, then invest the time and $$ to get it to what you find productive. Small amounts of time saved every time you start or stop a push add up to a large labor savings.
> 
> I question whether you really need a dedicated rocker for scoop and retract (but I've never operated one). If you have two, rock both forward for scoop, rock both back for retract.


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## collins590 (Dec 31, 2010)

Aerospace Eng said:


> There is no reason it has to use the 3rd function valve.
> 
> That might make the initial installation easier, but if it makes the control hard to operate, then invest the time and $$ to get it to what you find productive. Small amounts of time saved every time you start or stop a push add up to a large labor savings.


Where else would you get hydraulics for the blade then? Im all for making it a little easier to operate but I still think you need to use the aux hydraulics.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

If your running a loader with a wing plow your hand should never have to leave joystick to move loader or blade. On our 621’s we have the rocker switch mounted on it for blade function but in a perfect world I’d spend the extra 10k and put extra valves on loader and get new joystick. If I ever order a nee loader it will have the extra valves and forget about the valve block on blade as I hate having wiring going to blade. The more user friendly a piece of equipment is the more productive and happy the operator is.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

collins590 said:


> Where else would you get hydraulics for the blade then? Im all for making it a little easier to operate but I still think you need to use the aux hydraulics.


The details depend on if it is an open center or closed center system.

As an example, if you have an open system, you tap into the power beyond or excess flow port, run a line to wherever your HLA block is, run a return line back to wherever the line out of the main valve was going.

That's what I did with my tug. I wound up using straight mechanical valves, but I could just have easily fun the lines out the front of the tug and put a solenoid valve block there, controlled with an electric joystick or switches in the cab.

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/mb-4-tug-with-plow.178234/page-4
A closed center is even easier, since the valves are all in parallel rather than series.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Small amounts of time saved every time you start or stop a push add up to a large labor savings.


This is my issue with the current setup...time wasted stopping and starting while moving a wing or angling it or whatever because the rocker switch is in the wrong position. Or thinking you're going to perform one function...say a wing out and you angle the blade. Or angle the wrong wing.

It's as stupid as the DD expanding plow controllers...the people that design them don't seem to ever have plowed for 5 minutes much less 5 hours or 15 hours.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> This is my issue with the current setup...time wasted stopping and starting while moving a wing or angling it or whatever because the rocker switch is in the wrong position. Or thinking you're going to perform one function...say a wing out and you angle the blade. Or angle the wrong wing.
> 
> It's as stupid as the DD expanding plow controllers...the people that design them don't seem to ever have plowed for 5 minutes much less 5 hours or 15 hours.


When your plowing your thinking 10 steps ahead while most people can't think 1 step ahead. Lol.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Isn't that basically what the computer geek/plow guy basically suggested? Except it's mounted to the loader joystick in his and my case?
> 
> If you're steering with the left hand, how are you pushing switches on the dash? The way we have it set up, one had steers, the other controls F/R, loader joystick and rocker switch for left wing, right wing and angle.


Geeks can plow too. Lol


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

On the one deere tractor the small remote has built in buttons and pigtails under the cab. We used those instead but you have to hold the button while using the rocker on front of joystick to direct fluid to the valve


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## collins590 (Dec 31, 2010)

Aerospace Eng said:


> The details depend on if it is an open center or closed center system.
> 
> As an example, if you have an open system, you tap into the power beyond or excess flow port, run a line to wherever your HLA block is, run a return line back to wherever the line out of the main valve was going.
> 
> ...


Wouldnt closed center just use the existing valve thats there? I though about open center and run new line from pump and return to tank but I assume that will cost 5k+.


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## jc8 (Oct 15, 2012)

Does anyone run the MP or HLA joystick? 

Not sure of the cost of either.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jc8 said:


> Does anyone run the MP or HLA joystick?
> 
> Not sure of the cost of either.


We did...before we didn't.

Rocker switch is better...see post about 2 joysticks being a clusterfoxtrot.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Ive never used one but Im pretty good at half assing it. To have it all on one joystick would it not be simpler to have a trigger that activates the left, and right wing buttons and separates the angle lift/ drop/mode you want to move a wing you pull the trigger and hit the button for that wing. Up down left right are all in joystick loader controls. Or is this too hard?


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

collins590 said:


> Wouldnt closed center just use the existing valve thats there? I though about open center and run new line from pump and return to tank but I assume that will cost 5k+.


Open or closed center is determined by the machine manufacturer. It's a fundamental choice in the architecture of the system. Valves in parallel or series.

It really doesn't have to cost that much. It depends on how fancy you want to get.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

jc8 said:


> Does anyone run the MP or HLA joystick?
> 
> Not sure of the cost of either.


This is the Metal Pless joystick control. Very simple to hookup and use. Buttons are for the wings.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Try that again.


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## collins590 (Dec 31, 2010)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Open or closed center is determined by the machine manufacturer. It's a fundamental choice in the architecture of the system. Valves in parallel or series.
> 
> It really doesn't have to cost that much. It depends on how fancy you want to get.


So typically a wheel loader is open center I assume, though im not really sure how to tell. So an open center valve on the blade with two rockers side by side for the wings would be the best. Keep the 3rd valve for the angle. Other option is I can set the loader to continuous flow from the machine by pressing a button, would that work as well with an open center valve and just have another rocker for angling the plow? Would eliminate having to run another set of steel lines down the arm of the machine.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

collins590 said:


> So typically a wheel loader is open center I assume, though im not really sure how to tell. So an open center valve on the blade with two rockers side by side for the wings would be the best. Keep the 3rd valve for the angle. Other option is I can set the loader to continuous flow from the machine by pressing a button, would that work as well with an open center valve and just have another rocker for angling the plow? Would eliminate having to run another set of steel lines down the arm of the machine.


If you have the hydraulic schematic for the machine, it would tell. Some of my machines have it in the operator's manual, some don't and it is only in the maintenance manual.

In an open center system you typically have a dumb pump, like a gear pump that pumps fluid through the system, continuously circulating it through the valves. For this to work, the valves are all open in neutral - the flow can go from the supply to the return port unimpeded. When something needs to move, a valve diverts the supply side of the cylinder, motor. This robs every valve downstream of flow.

For example, my tug which has 4 wheel steering and my articulated trucks are open center even though they have articulated steering, like a loader. The steering is just the first thing in the loop, so that it has priority over everything else.

The advantages to an open center system are that the pump can be a simple positive displacement pump, that the fluid is always circulating - the main loop is never deadheaded, and that the pressure in the main loop is never higher than what the hydraulic system calls for - theoretically 0 if nothing is moving.

The disadvantage of an open center is that you cannot do a lot of simultaneous operations. On my broom trucks, which are also open center, if I swing the broom, I cannot also pivot the broom head at the same time to increase or decrease ground pressure. The picoting just stops until I finish swinging. It's not that big a deal, since I don't swing while brooming - the broom is at one stop or the other depending on how I want to discharge.

In a closed center system, the pressure is maintained at a consistent level. It can be done various ways, but typically is done with a variable displacement piston pump. that varies its displacement to maintain the pressure downstream. When nothing is moving, the pump is basically in neutral - no fluid moving but the pressure maintained at 2500 or whatever PSI the system designer wants. My excavator, telehandler, and Belos municipal tractor are all closed center. I can perform multiple simultaneous actions, although they will probably all slow down compared to when a single motion is occurring. The pumps are expensive.

If you have multiple pumps, you may have more than one type of system on the same machine.

One way to tell is that if there is a test port downstream of the pump, or valve body inlet. In an open center when nothing moves, the pressure will be low, and then pop up when you lift the arms. It will only pop up to the pressure needed to move - an empty bucket may not take much pressure. In a closed center, the pressure will be at system pressure no matter what is moving.

My speculation is that you have an open center system, since loaders are fundamentally simple - they only need to steer, lift the arms, and dump the arms. Their motion may be hydraulically driven as well, but that is generally a separate hydrostatic circuit anyway.

The valve that controls flow down the arm is probably the last one in the system (lowest priority), since it would be used for running a grapple, or something similar.

Do you know if the 3rd valve is a cylinder or motor spool? A cylinder spool locks flow when closed, otherwise the grapple would not be held. A motor spool allows flow to go from one output to the other when it is not displaced, so you can rotate the broom, mower, whatever in neutral. A computer controlled valve block can mimic both behaviors.

If the valve is designed to be on continuously without affecting the rest of the machine, leaving it on and treating it as its own separate open center hydraulic loop with three valves on the plow and three control switches in the same place will probably work better than using a button on the joystick to perform one function and having two rockers somewhere else, in my opinion.

If HLA doesn't supply a 3 spool valve setup, you could use one of these subplates

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...D03-Series-OC-Subplate-SFP-10053-9-5883-3.axd
and 3 of these valves

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...Eaton-Vickers-DG4V-3-8C-VM-U-G7-61-9-6136.axd
One caveat to the above recommendations is that in an open center system the valve body has to be sized for the total system flow (in this case the maximum flow down the arm) not the flow you expect to use on each cylinder.


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## collins590 (Dec 31, 2010)

You can have open center systems that can perform more than one function as the return from a cylinder is recycled. Your not really deadheading the pressure, but you do lose pressure from each task. But until you get to the end of a cylinder stroke, there is still flor and pressure to perform other tasks down the line. You can also set up 3 functions in parallel, which would be nicer if your trying to move both wings at the same time and want them to be the same speed.
The 3rd valve on the loader keeps pressure, doesnt go into a float per say when not in use.
So I would need to measure the flow in the 3rd valve I assume and max rpm and size the valve body acordingly.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

the other thing with the rockers switch and electric over hydraulic valve on the blade is you can have them ready and if anything goes down any other machine could pick up that blade and run it. Clip a cable to the battery and tape the switch to the joystick and plug blade to harness and send it. 

We rent skids to load salt. Those skids all get wired to run a snow wing incase a skid goes down. If a 5000 series tractor goes down. We have a skid to alo adapter 
If a blade goes down. We have a spare pusher and we even have an alo to skid adapter. 

The other nice thing about electric over hydraulic is you save remotes for the all important snow blower on the back.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

collins590 said:


> You can have open center systems that can perform more than one function as the return from a cylinder is recycled. Your not really deadheading the pressure, but you do lose pressure from each task. But until you get to the end of a cylinder stroke, there is still flor and pressure to perform other tasks down the line. You can also set up 3 functions in parallel, which would be nicer if your trying to move both wings at the same time and want them to be the same speed.
> The 3rd valve on the loader keeps pressure, doesnt go into a float per say when not in use.
> So I would need to measure the flow in the 3rd valve I assume and max rpm and size the valve body acordingly.


The owners manual may tell you the flow. On my excavator, I have 13 gpm on one aux (like a low-flow skid loader) and 5 gpm on the other (for cylinders).


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## brookview (Oct 15, 2005)

On our rented loader we are running it with a foot switch that is on the left of the brake pedal


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## jc8 (Oct 15, 2012)

Lots of good info, I guess the compact loaders are not set up like skids (I know some of the Wacker loaders have the 14 pin plug at the front)


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## HLA SNOW (Nov 13, 2018)

Hi guys,
I haven't been on here in quite awhile. I would just like to raise awareness to the new foot switch option we now have available for the SnowWing operation. I installed a few of these for some local guys through out the last season and everyone that got one wouldn't give it up. 
If your loader has room on the floor next to the left brake pedal, this is a great solution in lieu of the 3 way rocker switch. It addresses most of the concerns expressed in this thread with reaching around the cab for the rocker switch, then forgetting to return it to the center position. The pedals are momentary so you will never again have the switch left in a wing position when you expect the blade to angle. 
We have plug and play retro fit kits for loaders that have the standard HLA harness with 3 way toggle already installed. Talk to your local dealer for pricing and availability.

Short operational video here. 





Also a few pics from some of the installs. Volvo L110.










Cat 924. This was a temporary demo install and the wires from the right hand console were tidied up later. We just disconnected from the toggle switch and hooked up to the foot switch cable.










Quite a few compact wheel loaders come with a work tool harness in them now, and we also have plug and play harnesses for these. The downside is, it is typically still a 3 way rocker switch to run it, same as the HLA rocker switch. The upside is it is an OEM switch with the wiring all factory installed. Skid steers are typically nicer to run with the plug and play harness, since they utilize momentary buttons on the joystick to operate the diverter valve.


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