# hourly pay snow removal !!



## johnnyusa (Dec 22, 2009)

Have a good worker named isaac who started this year for me and i pay him 17 per hr. to cut grass and hes my highest paid grass cutter and he doesnt have a drivers license but hes great with cutting . he told me when he started he works all year round and knows how to plow , shovel , and run snow blowers and will work with me over the winter. today one of my other workers called me and said that isaac told him that if I dont pay him 30 per hour during snow he'll go to other company from last year and work for him. I dont want to lose guy but also dont want to start precidence with paying that much because these guys all start talking and next thing you know they're all asking for more money.. how would you guys handle this?


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## johnnyusa (Dec 22, 2009)

forgot to mention I paid 20 per hour last year to workers for snow work


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## BRL1 (Sep 13, 2014)

No drivers license? How is he going to plow Does he have a education at all?


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## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

Let him go. Unless he in insurable, and has a drivers license, he is of no use to you in a plow truck.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Why doesn't he have one?


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

Sounds like he's worth more like $12/hour and he can run his very own shovel. Let Isaac walk


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

That's normal for snow 

Even Brickman/valley crest does that

Don't be a cheap ass. But he needs to get license


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## MK97 (Oct 9, 2013)

Instead of using third party info, just call him and ask what his deal is. For some reason people love to gossip and start problems. 

If he has no license, then tell him to get lost. No real company would hire him for $30/hr if he can't run a truck.


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

30 an hour is absurd. If he hasnot mentioned it to you and it's just him talking to the other employee then just ignore it for now. I used to be an employee too, a lot of the guys talk like that but that's just it, it's all talk.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

We pay shovel guys $20 an hour 

Atv guys get 30

Equipment / truck drivers get $35 

Unless they are sub naturally higher


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

But 30 for grass cutting? That's crazy


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Jguck25;1831147 said:


> But 30 for grass cutting? That's crazy


Said 17 for grass


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

CT prices are higher ,but maybe not that high,


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

dieselss;1831152 said:


> Said 17 for grass


I took it as the employee wanted a straight up raise to 30 an hour


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

I took it as 30 for plowing only


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

He sAid 30 during the storm 

Reading comprehension folks


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

My humble apologies. Tried reading and watching a movie at the same time.


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## johnnyusa (Dec 22, 2009)

when approached ill tell him 25 per hr. to run 4wd tractor w/ snow blower at condos if he wants 30 per hr. he can come in and run tractor at condos and when done after 5 hours its time to go home for him and the 22 per hour guys can stay on for another 10 hours


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

25.00 an hour for a tractor. If it's got a cab and heat that's not a bad price imo


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

johnnyusa;1831109 said:


> Have a good worker named isaac who started this year for me and i pay him 17 per hr. to cut grass and hes my highest paid grass cutter and he doesnt have a drivers license but hes great with cutting . he told me when he started he works all year round and knows how to plow , shovel , and run snow blowers and will work with me over the winter. today one of my other workers called me and said that isaac told him that if I dont pay him 30 per hour during snow he'll go to other company from last year and work for him. I dont want to lose guy but also dont want to start precidence with paying that much because these guys all start talking and next thing you know they're all asking for more money.. how would you guys handle this?


Im trying under stand this You pay him $17 and then you bump it up for snow Why?
If he only worth $17 in the summer time Then that's what he is worth during winter time

Help me understand this


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## johnnyusa (Dec 22, 2009)

during spring and weathers beautiful theres a ton of guys looking for work but during windy, freezing snow storms you can hardly find workers. so alot of companies dangle high wages in order to get the work done and if you dont pay, they won't come .


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## MK97 (Oct 9, 2013)

Why are you letting someone with no license and therefor very little bartering room try to dictate rate if he wants $30/hr? Tell him he go get a license before you consider he is worth that much.

I'll happily work 20 hours (and I have before) taking care of everything myself, before I let someone bully me into paying them more when they are far from actually being worth that much.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Not sure about other states but in Michigan you cant drive a truck, tractor, loader, or skidsteer in public parking lots without a license. We have the same thing here, guy is great on a mower but in the winter he can only shovel and that's definitely not worth 30 an hour unless he can do the job of 3 men.


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

Sounds like more trouble than its worth. If he is talking more money to other employees, rather than talking to you, he will create discontent with the rest of your help. Send him packin.


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## johnnyusa (Dec 22, 2009)

Hes gone CYA


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

What happened? Will he get 17 per hour with the other company in the summer ? (Some people cant see the forest for the trees )


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

LapeerLandscape;1831376 said:


> Not sure about other states but in Michigan you cant drive a truck, tractor, loader, or skidsteer in public parking lots without a license. We have the same thing here, guy is great on a mower but in the winter he can only shovel and that's definitely not worth 30 an hour unless he can do the job of 3 men.


Here you cant drive anything with out one even a mower on a city streets 
Use to but to many people getting DWI and driving mowers or tractors So they made a new law up


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

Antlerart06;1831217 said:


> Im trying under stand this You pay him $17 and then you bump it up for snow Why?
> If he only worth $17 in the summer time Then that's what he is worth during winter time
> 
> Help me understand this


Because snow business owners want guys to showup at 2am thru out the winter not the first 2 times. 20-25 dollars an hour is fair. These guys are priceless when mother nature is in menopause mode. Dont be shocked pal


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## johnnyusa (Dec 22, 2009)

exactly!! I always pay more for storms and these workers know the game and they all play it. the other guy probably tells them 25 per hr and they come back to you and say 30 per hr. and if you let them go they have 25per hour at least. my shifts every storm are at least 15 hrs long . i know some of these companies that pay 30 per hour get a bunch of guys at each condo site and blow them outta there in 4 or five hours and send their ass home.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Yeah all our guys are paid the entire storm. 

We even pay if they have to sleep or take a break. Also have hotel rooms and they get paid for sleeping there as well


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Our guys get between $15-23 for side walk crew. Plow drivers $30-45. They can take a break to warm up but sure as hell not gonna pay them to sleep in a motel. Couple years ago shovel guy left to run to store, turns out he was doing his grocery shopping and was gone over an hour. He got docked an hour pay and shifted to the stand by crew.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

kimber750;1831655 said:


> Our guys get between $15-23 for side walk crew. Plow drivers $30-45. They can take a break to warm up but sure as hell not gonna pay them to sleep in a motel. Couple years ago shovel guy left to run to store, turns out he was doing his grocery shopping and was gone over an hour. He got docked an hour pay and shifted to the stand by crew.


Not for every storm. But only multi day storms we do that


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Whiffyspark;1831657 said:


> Not for every storm. But only multi day storms we do that


Our crew goes home to sleep during long storms, they still don't get paid for sleeping. Are your guys not local?


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

johnnyusa;1831635 said:


> exactly!! I always pay more for storms and these workers know the game and they all play it. the other guy probably tells them 25 per hr and they come back to you and say 30 per hr. and if you let them go they have 25per hour at least. my shifts every storm are at least 15 hrs long . i know some of these companies that pay 30 per hour get a bunch of guys at each condo site and blow them outta there in 4 or five hours and send their ass home.


There is a company here pays there drivers 30-40 per hour but they run 15-20 trucks There route only takes 4-5 hrs 
I have only one guy said he heard what they got paid So he wanted same pay or other company would hire him for that. I told him good luck 
Month later after I replace his spot he wanted come back.
He was only making half what he was make with me per storm
He made $30 per hr but he always sent home after 4 hrs worth of work
He gross $120 with them and most of time He gross 360 with me per storm Now he is flipping burgers 
I might hire him back Since Im adding a 6th rig He been bugging me


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

kimber750;1831662 said:


> Our crew goes home to sleep during long storms, they still don't get paid for sleeping. Are your guys not local?


Our main site is about a 45 minute drive in good weather for almost everyone.

The company that we work for pays for it. They provided the rooms as well


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## fms (Nov 8, 2005)

Our snow people get paid a premium because they're called in at 2 a.m. and work till the job is done. They occasionally work 40 hours in 2 days. That's never been required of our landscapers that work normal hours.


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## Do It All Do It Right (Jan 24, 2005)

kimber750;1831655 said:


> Our guys get between $15-23 for side walk crew. Plow drivers $30-45. They can take a break to warm up but sure as hell not gonna pay them to sleep in a motel. Couple years ago shovel guy left to run to store, turns out he was doing his grocery shopping and was gone over an hour. He got docked an hour pay and shifted to the stand by crew.


At 35-45 per hour what are the billable's per hour to support that? What about comp and taxes?


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Do It All Do It Right;1832049 said:


> At 35-45 per hour what are the billable's per hour to support that? What about comp and taxes?


That's going to vary between everyone's location


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Do It All Do It Right;1832049 said:


> At 35-45 per hour what are the billable's per hour to support that? What about comp and taxes?


Our accounts are all seasonal. There are 3 company plow trucks that are hourly. One company truck driving by the owner and 3 subs paid seasonally. So it is budgeted for average events to cover the hourly employees. Contracts have total snow fall and ice accumulation clauses to help cover years like last year.


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## Do It All Do It Right (Jan 24, 2005)

If different markets are different and nothing is relative and people are throwing around numbers that make me want to quit and come work for you what is the point of this thread?


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

that sounds a little high, i pay plow drivers 20 and blowers 14


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## UnitedInc (Sep 19, 2011)

Not only that but in the summer a lawn that costs 30 dollars takes about 15 to 20 min. A 30 dollar driveway takes 5 min. Soooo income wise 60 an hr being brought in by him for summer. winter time 6 drives an hr. = 180 an hr. just another reason. I wouldnt make any money if I payed my guys 30 an hr. Even at 15 dollars an hr by the time taxes and w/c comes out its more like 22 dollars an hr.


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## SnowOps (Oct 1, 2013)

Lot of numbers here, I can add mine just for information:
Grass/Landscaping is $15/hour
Snow Blowing is $20 / Hour
Plowing is $25 / Hour
Subcontractor plowing is $40-$50 / hour
all on the books, with 1099 or payroll
those are competitive for around here, I also let my plow drivers take home the trucks and use as they wish, they would just be sitting at my shop otherwise, and its a nice perk.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

SnowOps;1834870 said:


> Lot of numbers here, I can add mine just for information:
> Grass/Landscaping is $15/hour
> Snow Blowing is $20 / Hour
> Plowing is $25 / Hour
> ...


Wow, I wouldn't start my truck to sub for $50. But I also don't need to plow.

Our company drivers either take the trucks home or they are left on site.


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## UnitedInc (Sep 19, 2011)

I'd say a bit more 65 maybe 70 for sub work for a buddy if he needed help. 40 - 50 is kinda low for me but different area.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

I wouldn't even own a plow truck if I could drive for $30 or more.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Buswell Forest;1853750 said:


> I wouldn't even own a plow truck if I could drive for $30 or more.


I hired a guy with 2 trucks once in a blizzard He said $60 For 7.6 plows Well they wasn't worth 60 I bought them lunch in between 2 lots and I eat as I plow they didn't pull in lot had there lunch if I knew that I wouldn't bought it

Well at the end of the day I told the guy get me his invoice So I can pay him 
I thought was going be $60 per truck nope it was $60 for both trucks

Last winter same guy told me he would plow for $45 with his 4x4 Ford tractor with a 9ft straight plow 9ft rear


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

kimber750;1835222 said:


> Wow, I wouldn't start my truck to sub for $50. But I also don't need to plow.
> 
> Our company drivers either take the trucks home or they are left on site.


Agreed, I'd stay in bed if someone offered me $50/hr


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Sawboy;1853802 said:


> Agreed, I'd stay in bed if someone offered me $50/hr


55-65 here is going rate, but we get way more hours then you also.


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## Hexa Fox (Oct 15, 2014)

Antlerart06;1831217 said:


> Im trying under stand this You pay him $17 and then you bump it up for snow Why?
> If he only worth $17 in the summer time Then that's what he is worth during winter time
> 
> Help me understand this


We just talked about this in a forum that I posted. I have worked in the Landscaping business for a little over a decade now. This is the first year I plan to offer snow removal.

First off if he is offering you $17.00 an hour in a plow truck or really anything with a plow you are robbing him. I can plow a 100+ foot long driveway get out and clear non garaged vehicles off in a few minutes.

I think many people here will agree with me when I say if I am out in the cold I better make money. I am not buying a plow this year. Only a snow blower to go into the back of my pickup truck. I have already been advised by many people to not charge by the hour.

Summer Time is WAY different than Winter Time. Anyway I had a figure that if I am out in the cold I would like to be getting at least a dollar a minute. Which translates into $60.00 per hour. I was told not to do that on this site as I could most likely make a lot more.


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## Hexa Fox (Oct 15, 2014)

Sawboy;1853802 said:


> Agreed, I'd stay in bed if someone offered me $50/hr


Funny. You have a truck with a plow right? You would be done in like 10 minutes. Therefore you get $5.00? Hilarious stuff.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Hexa Fox;1853813 said:


> We just talked about this in a forum that I posted. I have worked in the Landscaping business for a little over a decade now. This is the first year I plan to offer snow removal.
> 
> .


You landscape for a decade 
I been doing that over a decade and plowing snow longer

I just never could understand the higher pay in winter vs the summer Summer work is harder back breaking work Plowing in a truck is vacation Truck does all the hard work 
When I ran a sidewalk crew now they got paid more then the plow drivers 
I always told drivers you want make higher pay get on them walks


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## john r (Jan 3, 2001)

Not worth the risk not having a license and puting him in a truck. Snow or no snow. Sounds like he wants to start some crap amungst the workers. Like a block buster. This is bad for moral. And before you know it, every one wants more money. You say he says he can plow but are you sure?? Talk is cheap. $15.00 for shovlers and $25.00 for drivers using our trucks.


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

kimber750;1835222 said:


> Wow, I wouldn't start my truck to sub for $50. But I also don't need to plow.
> 
> Our company drivers either take the trucks home or they are left on site.


I agree with this. I had an offer to sub for the "big" outfit here this winter. Now they plow practically every decent commercial lot in the county. They offered my $35/hr for my truck and all the hours I want. I just laughed and told them I make way more than that and don't work near the hours they do. I won't even tell you what they offered for my skid steer.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

I don't not pay by the hour if I need help. I pay by the Site and it has to be done to my satisfaction. This way there no trying to figure out how long, when, where and so on.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Antlerart06;1853832 said:


> You landscape for a decade
> I been doing that over a decade and plowing snow longer
> 
> I just never could understand the higher pay in winter vs the summer Summer work is harder back breaking work Plowing in a truck is vacation Truck does all the hard work
> ...


Winter help get payed more to be on call 24/7, freeze their ass off and work on Christmas if needed. Summertime they have a set schedule, winter you work when the snow falls. So better compensation in winter time.


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

It's difficult to get dependable people to work especially in the winter . If he is that good then why doesn't he have a licence? $30.00 to shovel snow is a little high!


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

dieselss;1831152 said:


> Said 17 for grass


Holy Crap I pay $10.00 for grass.

For shoveling I treat them like subs by paying by the job and they use their own transportation.

Without a DL this guy is worthless IMO and still wouldn't pay $30.00 for a driver to run my truck.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

I also think the o.p. fired or the guy quit. So the argument is moot


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

johnnyusa;1831109 said:


> Have a good worker named isaac who started this year for me and i pay him 17 per hr. to cut grass and hes my highest paid grass cutter and he doesnt have a drivers license but hes great with cutting . he told me when he started he works all year round and knows how to plow , shovel , and run snow blowers and will work with me over the winter. today one of my other workers called me and said that isaac told him that if I dont pay him 30 per hour during snow he'll go to other company from last year and work for him. I dont want to lose guy but also dont want to start precidence with paying that much because these guys all start talking and next thing you know they're all asking for more money.. how would you guys handle this?


approach Isaac personally before making a decision based on a possible disgruntled fellow employee who may want his job . its only fair . you shouldnt share employees rates with others . pay him what YOU feel he is worth . 
an employee eager to show for work early time and time again is a proven and therefore worthy of a decent wage .


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## Hexa Fox (Oct 15, 2014)

jimbo64;1853929 said:


> It's difficult to get dependable people to work especially in the winter . If he is that good then why doesn't he have a licence? $30.00 to shovel snow is a little high!


Well it is just like a lot of these guys are saying. Because I am going to be using a snow blower mixed with shovels this year. If I cannot make at least $60.00 per hour then I'm staying home.

They were originally talking about plowing with a truck I believe. Which means they would need to charge a lot more. I have already been advised to not charge by the hour as I could make a lot more.

$30.00 an hour for a couple kids shoveling your driveway is still a little harsh. The whole reason you pay someone else is to avoid being out in the cold yourself.


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

If you are going to quote on blowing, shovelling or plowing your customers are going to want a "how much is it going to cost" price. How much you charge per hour is really meaningless.


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## Hexa Fox (Oct 15, 2014)

jimbo64;1854031 said:


> If you are going to quote on blowing, shovelling or plowing your customers are going to want a "how much is it going to cost" price. How much you charge per hour is really meaningless.


I already mentioned this here and in another forum. I guess you missed it which is no big deal. So the $60.00 an hour thing is just a figure. I have not told any of my customers that.

I already knew that by the hour is bad. Driveways down here (as the probably are everywhere) vary A LOT. Some are very small and only big enough for vehicles, others are very long and wide. They also vary A LOT when it comes to gravel, concrete, asphalt and some even a mix of anywhere in between this.

You just read where someone posted that they like Winter work better than Summer work. This is because they mentioned they were inside a warm plow truck. I only have a little 1500 Chevrolet 4.8 V8 4x4 Reg Cab Silverado. This is a good plow truck as you might have guessed, but you can put a lot of wear and tear on trucks plowing snow. Especially if you do not know what you are doing.

I am sure I could catch on quick and be doing a good job. I just do not want make the mistakes in my only good work truck right now. So this year I am stuck outside in the cold with a snow blower and shovels.

A good snow blower will run you at least $1,000 and personally I am looking at ones that range from $1,500 to $2,000. So after you get shovels, Winter gear, snow blower, salt, and the like you are out at least $2,000.

Just say I am making $60.00 an hour. It would take me around 35 hours to pay off the $2,000. That is out in the freezing cold for 35 hours with a snow blower and shovels. So when I was told that I could make more than $60.00 an hour is a good figure. This also does not count for gas in my snow blower, gas in my truck, and especially things like wear and tear.


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## Hexa Fox (Oct 15, 2014)

The only reason I am offering snow removal this year is because I have had several of my regular customers requesting it. They figure that I do such a good job on their yards that I will do a similar job when it snows. They want the same reliability. 

No I am just throwing this estimate out there but a lot of these smaller driveways could be done for around $20.00 and of course when you get heavier snows add 50% or so. Then a lot of the longer ones you are looking at $40.00-$60.00. I would not want to get out in the cold and make anything less.

If things go good this year I will consider buying a tractor or plow for my truck. If they go bad I will use my $2,000 snow blower to do my own driveway and stay home. 

So to answer the forum I would say that hourly pay for snow removal is definitely not the way to go. Because there are way too many factors to take into considerations such as is their driveway steep, is it long, what makes up their driveway, how much snow, texture of snow, equipment you are using, and the like. 

I already know my business is going in the right direction. Last year my only competition was one of my dads friends in a tractor with a plow and a snow blower. Do not get me wrong this competition is not touchable for me right now but he works for the state clearing roads so he is not worried about driveways.

He charged our neighbor $40.00 to back up his 120' driveway with the snow blower and was gone in less than a minute. However as you can imagine this is a large piece of equipment. However it was so large that he did not get in and around his vehicles so I was over there shoveling what was left for about a good hour or so. 

I could have probably finished the entire driveway myself if I had a nice snow blower and could have easily charged $60.00 and been out in less than an hour. There was a lot of snow on the ground though.


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## SnowOps (Oct 1, 2013)

This is a tough topic for a forum, because you have to set your rates based on the market. here in CNY, $50 an hour for a sub is pretty standard. Most of the big companies here pay between $50-$60 an hour. I start at $40 if someone has never plowed for me, unit I see how they work, then I bump them to $50. Now I don't do any sub work, but if I did, it would be tough here for me to say I want $75, when there are 100 + guys that will do it for $50...its just the market.
Just like What I charge for an hour or work here, is not going to be the same elsewhere. 
We are not the smallest company out there, not the biggest, and we for sure are not the cheapest, but we are good, we pay fair rates, and charge fair prices, and grow every year.
Hopefully all you guys are getting more where you are too...good luck this season!


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## snowplower1 (Jan 15, 2014)

One thing i always question is, i totally get that markets change and such but what i want to know is how do you figure what the market in your area is? this is something i never had to do as my dad has owned the business almost 30 years so he just taught it all to me


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## SnowOps (Oct 1, 2013)

im not sure how the best way, I am fortunate to be close friends with many of the big names in my area, there is plenty of business to go around, we often discuss things like pricing, rates, etc, and of course we leave some details out, but at least I can gauge what I am doing to similarly sized businesses in the area. I have been doing this well over 10 years, and it seems to be working so far. low ballers don't seem to harm me, we have a great customer base, and a great name out there. Every year I am truing away business, because I get full quick. Even when I add a truck or another route, I have no issues filling it..We have a steady growth rate, so im guessing ill keep doing thins the same way as long as they keep working out.


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