# Cracked concrete driveway



## Fourbycb (Feb 12, 2009)

I have a home owner who poured a new concrete driveway this summer and after the last snowfall now the owner has called me out saying I cracked the concrete. The area of concern is right in front of the garage door on 2 6x6 panels, Now there is a 2" wide buy 14" long scrap mark on the concrete and the cracks go thur that to the outside edges I told him the concrete had a crown (high spot) and I shouldnt be held accountable for a poor concrete pour job if in fact it was my blade dropping down that caused the crack to happen 
Whats everyone think


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Unless you're plowing it with an 80,000# Oshkosh, it's not your fault. Your gut feeling is certainly right on this one. :salute:


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## doo-man (Feb 22, 2009)

jomama45;1160783 said:


> Unless you're plowing it with an 80,000# Oshkosh, it's not your fault. Your gut feeling is certainly right on this one. :salute:


I 2nd that, your plow isn't dropping all its +/- 800lbs of force in one area its spread over the 7'6" or whatever width your running.

I would suspect he either put some salt down or the original contractor didn't know squat about pouring a drive !!!


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## Fourbycb (Feb 12, 2009)

There has been No Salt on it and my Danile rear pull plow was what I used so 90" was spread out The cracks are spread out over the 12ft width I just really feel like it was not my plow that did the cracks we did have sub zero temps for 3 days straight then all a sudden the cracks appeared and I am being blamed for the damage Its not like dropping a 8 ft blade 16 " on cold concrete


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## R.G.PEEL (Oct 27, 2010)

I do a lot of concrete flatwork, If this driveway is cracking and there is a high spot, it was likely not from poor workmanship with the concrete. Even an idiot can get concrete relatively flat. What has likely happened is the ground underneath the concrete froze and heaved in a non-uniform manner which stressed and broke the concrete. This is due to an improper base and is Not your fault. I have a much heavier plow than the one you are describing and I would gladly raise and drop it all day on any of my pours.

Tell him thats what he gets for pouring concrete on a pour base. I'm willing to bet there is only a couple inches of stone under the concrete and nothing else. If it continues to heave and crack (it will) offer to re-do it, charge lots to remove and dig a good deep base of granular material in there, reinforce the hell out of it and use a strong mixture like 32C2.


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## kashman (Jan 13, 2004)

take a core sample have it tested it all starts with a solid base


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Fourbycb;1160869 said:


> There has been No Salt on it and my Danile rear pull plow was what I used so 90" was spread out T*he cracks are spread out over the 12ft width* I just really feel like it was not my plow that did the cracks we did have sub zero temps for 3 days straight then all a sudden the cracks appeared and I am being blamed for the damage Its not like dropping a 8 ft blade 16 " on cold concrete


So there's a few cracks?

Are there any control joints, either sawn or "tooled" in?


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## kashman (Jan 13, 2004)

jomama45;1160970 said:



> So there's a few cracks?
> 
> Are there any control joints, either sawn or "tooled" in?


i would hope so


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## Fourbycb (Feb 12, 2009)

There are sawn cuts the panels are 6'x6' panels with exp joint from old to new concrete the 2 panels closest to the garage are the effected panels the cracks seem to start in the center of each panel and spread to the outside edges


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## R.G.PEEL (Oct 27, 2010)

Don't lose sleep over it buddy there's no way its your fault.


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## Fourbycb (Feb 12, 2009)

You will see the Drag mark my Pull Plow made


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## kashman (Jan 13, 2004)

i can tell from the pics thats **** cret


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## Turf Commando (Dec 16, 2007)

Tell the homeowner to get some concrete caulk ...


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

First, that concrete was obviously cracked before you scratched it.

Second, there's way too much sand exposed already for a "new" driveway.

As said above, it's clear to see to anyone who's profession is concrete that the driveway was bound to fail before you touched it. A good dose of just about about any de-icer will probably make that drive look like the surface of the moon..................


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

This is My Opinion....Those cracks are caused by shrinkage.....The Concrete cured to fast and thats when you get shrinkage cracks.....Most likely that slab was poured on a Pretty hot day.....Just My Opinion.....In no way are those cracks your fault....


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## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)

Try having him open the garage door and see if the floor is cracked. Chances are it is. Same with the basement. 2 things I can tell you about concrete; its grey and it cracks. Not your fault, its the nature of the product.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

jomama45;1161066 said:


> First, that concrete was obviously cracked before you scratched it.
> 
> Second, there's way too much sand exposed already for a "new" driveway.
> 
> ...


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## Mabepossibly (Dec 12, 2010)

I also deal with concrete all day long (sales of PCC pavement materials, ACI and ICRI member).

One, two or three things happened here.

1) Slab cured too fast. Concrete needs to be kept wet for a long while after it is poured. if it was poured and forgotten about it will dry too fast, shrink and crack. It will also not cure fully as it loses the water needed to cure. You will also get a lot of loose sand on top and the concrete will never match full strength...this explaines why your plow gouged the concrete so easily. 

2) Bad design. All concrete cracks. A proper design has properly spaced saw cuts and exp joints in it to allow the concrete to crack in the right spots. I cant see from those pictures, but the accepted standard is between 10'x10' and 15'x15'. 

3) Poor sub base prep. If the ground settles, the concrete cracks. If it is not compacted, the concrete cracks. If there is erosion, the concrete cracks. 

Bottom line is that even if the concrete cracked because your truck and plow were on it, its still not your problem. You didnt design the slab or the place it. If the slab failed from the weight of your equipment then it was not designed to meet its intended use.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

I'll bet the concretete is less than 4" under that spot


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

All the driveways in my neighborhood are concrete, including mine. I don't do residential here, but if I were to be asked to plow them out ever ( maybe this weekend?) I plan to have a damage waiver forms ready. That means if there are any scrapes, chips, cracks, etc. I'm not going to be held liable. I may lightly back drag mine. 

Nobody plows driveways here, so $30-40 a pop and most would be easy straight pushes in. Cha-ching!


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## cdqat1432 (Dec 3, 2010)

You can see that the crack came first, then the plow mark. If the plow cracked the driveway, the crack would go cleanly through the plow mark, not the way it is now. In my experience with this type of customer, they went with the lowest concrete bidder and then probably paid him in cash to avoid the taxes. Your customer has no recourse on the concrete guy. Its easier to blame it on you. It would never hold up in court and he knows it.


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