# 05-06 Snow Removal & Ice Control Agreement, please look !!!!



## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

ok guys, its time to get ready for the upcomeing season, I have typed up a new argeement and would like some input, please read over, and advise. 
-- Feel free to use any or all of it for you own use as well ----

Thanks Ron

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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Snow will be "removed" the most efficent way possible.

This sounds to me that your removeing the snow from the site not the pavement. 
Try something like this:
When agreed triggers are met, All paved surfaces stated in contract will be plowed in a efficent and timely manner. 
Loose the 24 hour clause, last year we had more then one storm end, and less then 24 hours another storm rolled in. If they require it then offer.
Acts of God clause should be added, truck breaks down, you break down whatever, I would add it.
Todd


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## timm9 (Dec 19, 2001)

You might consider adding an "Arbitration of Disputes" Clause to your contract.


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## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

thinks for the inputt keep it coming, what type of Arbitration of Disputes"??


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## timm9 (Dec 19, 2001)

Here in (California) the "land of many lawsuits" we use an "Arbritation Clause" in many types of contracts. The clause is an agreement to "arbritate" disputes instead of going to court, which saves time and money.


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## bterry (Oct 30, 2003)

The phrase "Adequate general liability insurance" may be helpful in getting the contract, but leaves too much for question, and lawyers. Not that I have it on my contracts, but why not tell them how much insurance you need/have, if thats what you want.

Some of my clients want a certificate with them named as additionally insured. I gladly give it to them. It opens my insurance co. up a little more, but doesn't cost me anything. This is for surely a off topic, so I'll stop there.

Anyway, if you have $1m policy, and get sued for $2m, is that adequate?


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

What If you have a 2 mil policy and get sued for 4 mil ?
You can not squeeze blood from a turnip right ? 
1 million is usually enough. get an additional umbrella for another million. then your butt is really covered. I can not say enough for having the umbrella policy, it covers everything.
Todd


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## bterry (Oct 30, 2003)

T-MAN, I agree 1 million is usually enough. My point wasn't how much to get, I was just questioning the use of the word adequate.


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## lawnboy (Jul 28, 2000)

Dont take this wrong, i'm not picking on you. I have read a lot of posts over the last year and your post really caught my attention. Your contract has so many clauses in it, like you get sued all the time. If i was a customer there is no way i would sign that. My company does almost a million dollars a year in sales, and 50 percent of the business is done by a handshake. The other part is done with a contract that is simple they ask me to do the job, and I do it.... I use to have a partner a couple of year ago, and he believed in contracts like you wrote. We had 5 percent that we had problems collecting when he was with me. The following year business increased and collections were down to .4 percent. Now im not saying that it was all due to the contracts, but it seems to me that if i was the customer and i received contracts like i have read in Lawnsite or Plowsite I would be turned off.


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## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

so what your saying is handshake is the best way.


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## lawnboy (Jul 28, 2000)

i'm not saying that. I'm just giving some food for thought.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

clapper&Company said:


> so what your saying is handshake is the best way.


That's what I do. Mostly I don't even need the handshake, the word is good enough for me.


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## DJC (Jun 29, 2003)

Mick said:


> That's what I do. Mostly I don't even need the handshake, the word is good enough for me.


That's what we like to do also, I don't like contracts unless it's a Com account and they request it. people are getting so they don't like signing things unless they have too!!! if one person is unhappy with what we do then they can find someone else. Why hold them with a contract and be unhappy. We have plenty of work to worry about things like that!!! JMO


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## Clapper&Company (Jan 4, 2005)

I know what you mean, Its never came back to bite you in the @$$ ??


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Three times in five years for a total loss of around $100. I think one was $50. Overall, not worth worrying about. I just won't plow for them ever again.


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

Hi Mick
I also have a few accounts that don't sign contracts, but it worries me if there is a slip and fall. I do carry G/A for a million $ but all my signed contracts have waiver's in them about slip and falls and so forth. I also have a clause that it is the property owners responsibility to make sure the property is free from slip and fall hazard's. Am I being to nuts about covering my backside if there is a slip and fall. Input from the group please.

Regards Mike


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## Makndust (Feb 6, 2004)

I implemented a contract for the first time this year. The primary reason was because we picked up a large C-store/ truck stop. They have such a huge amount of walk in traffic that it makes me quite nervous. We picked up a huge prvately owned prison this fall. When I approched them with my contract it kinda caught them off guard. They had a contract that they had thier contract labor sign but it was nothing compared to ours. The guy got his pen out to sign it an decided on the spot that he needed to show it to the warden and his other superiors before signing it. I think that it almost spooked them off. I am going to approch the C-store next week with the contract and see what their reaction is. I don't like doing business that way, its always been a "handshake" deal. Good old boys only go so far in court though. I know that I am driving my wife crazy asking if she thinks that I am going too far.


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## timm9 (Dec 19, 2001)

Unfortunately in this day and age contracts are a necessary evil. We all do our best to "do business" with people with integrity and honor. The contracts are to "protect" ourselves and our families from those "individuals" that enter into an agreement, and later on try and find a way to avoid their obligations and commitments. 99% percent of your customers would go to their "grave" before they would ever not "honor" their end of an agreement. It's the 1% that will "hang you out to dry" when you do not have a written contract. When there is a dispute, that 1% will have a very different "memory" of what the agreement was. The same 1% will, when faced with a problem (claim, lawsuit), do everything they can to shift blame and responsibility to you.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

There are two parts to this, I think - The contract and the insurance policy. I carry 1 million in GL in the case of the serious accident, like medical care. Little stuff like garage doors I would just cover. As far as the law in Maine, it's a little different than some may be used to. First, by law, commercial places are not required to remove snow or provide access untill "a reasonable amount of time" FOLLOWING CESSATION of snowfall. In other words, a business owner doesn't need to "plow with the storm" and has an undetermined amount of time after the snow stops. So, he could say he has arrangements to have the snow plowed, but the plow simply hadn't gotten there yet. The plow guy could say he simply hadn't gotten to that place yet, but it was on his route and he would get there when he can. This leads into insurance - the legal precedent in Maine is that "this is Maine, Maine gets snow, snow is slick". In other words, if it's a slip and fall claim, the injured person is going to have a tough time getting a judgement. "He should have been more careful", "She shouldn't have been wearing high heels in snow" etc. I guess my point with all this is - Each person who plows should become familiar with the laws in their state pertaining to snow and snow plowing. Also, when you consider slip and fall claims, there is such a thing as point of diminishing returns. I read a lot of paranioa about someone falling on the ice and suing, but think of the expense involved in bringing a lawsuit. First, you have to hire a lawyer and they aren't cheap. All this expense for something that may drag out for years. Then you may win. Then you have to consider if they don't have insurance, you still have to collect. 

On the other end, as a plow guy you have to consider is it worth having a contract. Say you have a contract with a person who now owes you $200 which he won't pay. What are you going to do - take him to court over $200? Even if you use Small Claims Court, it takes time. Then there's the aggravation and potential bad publicity. Then if you do win, all you have is a judgement; you still have to collect.


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## dmjr77 (Nov 6, 2004)

Hello,
Here is my 2005-2006 contract. Please take a look
Thank You


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Who decides if multiple visits are needed? As the customer, I'd prefer you only plow once, regardless of how much snow there is. Then I'd only owe $35 for any snowstorm.


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## dmjr77 (Nov 6, 2004)

Hello,
I put the multiple visits in there to cover myself in case if we get a major snow event and I have to come back more than once.
Thank You


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## Eyesell (Nov 7, 2003)

DMJR, you may want to do a search under "contracts" on this site, yours has no meat to it, totally open to ones interpretation.

Here in Mich. you need to make sure every "t" is crossed and "i" is dotted or something bad will probably happen to you.

After reading everyone's contracts, I'm really nervous, I just landed 10 Tire Company accounts, huge opportunity for me and my guys but with all this contact talk and lawsuit stuff, I thinking maybe I need to re-do mine.

I talk of slip and fall and all that stuff, but I guess if someone really wants to sue you they will no matter what your contract says. If their wallet is big enough it's gonna happen.

Just my .02 cents worth.


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## RHarrah (Sep 3, 2005)

Isn't a contract a written agreement of what is covered and what is not a covered service under the contracted period?

In my pest control business, I use to do the hand shake thing. But after so long the customer would forget what was covered and what was not. For instance, if I had a regular monthly carryout store that was covered for rodents, roaches & ants. When he got termites he expected them to be covered too. He said "That was what he was paying an exterminator for". 

Use a contract to CYA and spell out what you are and are not doing as part of your service.


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