# customers decide when to salt, contractors take liability



## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)

Am I missing something??? When I take on a property I apply salt looking for dry pavement. I have been to multiple companies this year that got their high paid lawyers to make up contracts stating that we need to notify the manager if the lot needs salt. If we apply salt and the management doesn't think it was necessary they won't pay us. How do we notify them at two in the morning? How will they know if it was necessary at 2 in the morning if they're not there? The contract goes on to state that we are liable for any accidents on property and they have no liability whatsoever. I amended the contract and turned it back in stating that they have two options; they can request salt and all liability is on them or we apply salt to achieve dry pavement and accept liability. The GM called me and said they don't amend their contracts. It wouldn't be a big deal but I've run into this over and over again this year. I had one general manager tell me that plow guys have been screwing them over on salt forever. We're providing a service to keep they're lots safe and they don't want to pay anything but they want all the liability to be on our shoulders if something happens? This business is getting more and more discouraging every year. Sorry about the rant, any suggestions?


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

walk away .


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

My contracts state that salt useage and application is performed at our discretion. There is an understanding that the snow and ice professional knows what is best, not the customer, and that's why we are hired, not just to perform the service but to be knowledgeable in the field.


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## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)

I have been walking away but I'm starting to run into similar situations all over the place. I've got three trucks running, two of them on commercial and one on residential and I don't even have enough salt customers to put down a ton of salt in a night. We had two pizza huts that I walked away from because they want to tell us when to put salt down. An apartment complex that won't take salt, three family videos that won't take salt, three autozones that won't take salt, Two apartment complexes that I bid on that want salt at their discretion, a storage unit that has ridiculous requirements and wants to tell us when to put down salt. All the lots that seem like they'll pay anything decent are locked up by companies that have been in business for 20 years. Am I just paying my dues right now?? How long before I can get into the right places to actually make some money?? Where should I look??


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

Call their attorney at 2am and ask about salting...lol
For the rest just make sure they either sign a release or call you in plenty of time to get salt down.


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

That is the way that most state work is they authorize all salting. If that is the case then they should have a contact number for after hours. If the contact does not answer the phone then log the attempt and conditions and drive on.


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

*be sure to have them sign off*

Our service contract has a separate sign-off for deicing applications. Cover yourself first. I also realize you want more deicing opportunities. Keep moving and hopefully you find the right clients.

Having them call you and or getting okay to salt after the fact is too hard to run a route.

Good luck


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

*salt / calcium after plowing is not an option in my contracts . it's getting nuked . we strive for dry pavement . period. *


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

*I agree with you*



Deco;876364 said:


> *salt / calcium after plowing is not an option in my contracts . it's getting nuked . we strive for dry pavement . period. *


Our sign-off is strictly to cover us in the I thought you were gonna's. If they are doing walks, they sign off on that as well. I agree 100% with you after plowing. Ice melter is a must. If not, move on to the next one. Too much liability if you are not doing the deicing. The sign-off also covers us as far as making the application and the pricing for the material.

Have a great winter in PA.


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## snow tender (Nov 30, 2008)

I have run into the same thing here. The property manager wants a call first. That's crazy the conditions on site may be different than what is out his bedroom window. I don't have a sign off in our contract but do have the conditions for salting. My feeling is its up to me when to salt. Second of all its my word against his as to if they said to salt it or not. It would be very easy for them to claim they requested salt and we didn't supply it.


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

Run!!!!!!!


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Alot of our accounts are refusing salt unless they call too. It really takes our income away and the lots look like crap. Chalk it up to the econmy but I dont see it changing any time soon.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Plus they will always call when you least expect it and you should just drop out of the sky with the salt truck


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## snow tender (Nov 30, 2008)

Yup like 10 mins after you get home.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

It's not horrible to give them that option. We get a few new one's each year that want to be notified so they can approve salt aps. I love waking up managers to tell them we are on site and conditions are such that I recommend the application. If they want to save money and say no....I document the call and move on.

I can convince most that it's the right thing to do, and after waking them up 5-6 times they usually come around to trusting our judgment and give us discretion. For the ones that say no at 2:00am, then yes at 9:00am (once they get their butt out of bed and see their site) we charge them an additional $150.00 for the special trip.

The routing is designed for the trucks and crews to be completed and off the roads before the morning rush. It is understood that we will be happy to service them.......however they will be responsible for the additional $150.00 special trip charge if they want service on their time frame.


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## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

We would just walk away from a contract like that.

We do have a couple places that they will call us for salt when they feel it is needed. For those it's in the contract covering our ass several ways. We also state that there has to be allowed travel time after the request. it costs more per time that way. Then it would per-time if it was automatic salting like the rest of our contracts. Simply cause of the extra trip that is normally having to be made during the day when they phone and not a normal stop on the routes.


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

*Sounds like we are all on the same page*

Nice to know we are generally all on the same page on this one. Sometimes our clients think we only want to offer deicing to make money. Well, okay that is it. But to also reduce liability for them and us from a slip and fall.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone and to our Canadian friends on here, here's wishing you a belated Happy Thanksgiving. Don't work too hard today.


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## Scottscape (Nov 27, 2005)

absoultely not. its at our discretion or no salt service period.


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## JeffNY (Dec 19, 2005)

I explained this to one of my customers, he wanted it up to him when to apply salt. I asked him if I can call him at 4am and ask him if he'd like salt. Then I explained, what if I plow at 5am, can't call and ask if you want salt till 7am, and someone falls at 6am.
Well, the salting is up to me now, which is nice. Its going to need salt a lot.


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

*Sounds great to me*

All of our plowing/clearing accounts are full service accounts. Meaning plowing and deicing. Also, we do not take any plow only accounts. We still have them sign-off that they have requested the service so there is no confusion on who's responsibility it is. I don't know about you guys, but we also make it clear on who's responsible for the walks. Us or them. That also has a separate sign-off. Again, simply to try and eliminate the I thought you were gonna's in the event of a slip and fall.

This doesn't mean it's right for everyone, but our legal adviser told us we needed it in our contract to help protect us.

Sorry for getting a bit confusing. Bottom line is simple, no deicing, no Wayne's Lawn Service. Not enough opportunities otherwise. We'll pass and go to the next one. Nice thing about snow & ice is that we don't need days of work we need hours of work per piece of equipment. That advantage gives us the opportunity to be a little more selective on the accounts we look for and sign up.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.


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## ff610 (Jan 9, 2009)

I only had one account try to control their salt. I made it simple for them. Sent me a document stating they want a limited amount of salt, or no salt at all on certain occasions, and I won't salt it. BUT, they assume all the liability for slip/falls then. I tell them that my liability insurance won't cover me against lawsuits if I'm not doing what in the best interest to control the ice. They thought about it differently after that conversation. I salt when I need to. My largest freight liner dealership understands that salt prices are a drop in the bucket compared to the cost they payed for 3 slip/fall lawsuits the year before I started taking care of their lot. I would also charge a trip charge if I had to make a special trip to salt after they had an opportunity. Bottom line is there's plenty of responsible customers that let us be experts in our field, so I would flush the headaches. Good Luck!


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## Wayne Volz (Mar 1, 2002)

*awesome post*



ff610;876974 said:


> I only had one account try to control their salt. I made it simple for them. Sent me a document stating they want a limited amount of salt, or no salt at all on certain occasions, and I won't salt it. BUT, they assume all the liability for slip/falls then. I tell them that my liability insurance won't cover me against lawsuits if I'm not doing what in the best interest to control the ice. They thought about it differently after that conversation. I salt when I need to. My largest freight liner dealership understands that salt prices are a drop in the bucket compared to the cost they payed for 3 slip/fall lawsuits the year before I started taking care of their lot. I would also charge a trip charge if I had to make a special trip to salt after they had an opportunity. Bottom line is there's plenty of responsible customers that let us be experts in our field, so I would flush the headaches. Good Luck!


Could not have said it better myself. With the average cost of an employee slip and fall at $28,000.00 dollars (source:wainjurylaw.com ) and third party slip and falls $?????, we are an excellent choice for our customers. With over 300,000 slip and falls per year across North America, I would rather not be included or invited to that party.


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## Lightningllc (Nov 23, 2009)

Well have your lawyer draw up a special add to the contract stating that due to no ice control to the property, the property owner is responsable for all slip and falls all liabilty falls on the property owner. This will make them change there minds. 

If they still do not want salt, plow it and after 2-3 snowfalls they will contact you to salt and they will see that it helps and looks better all around. Add a special service charge for salting on call and that will also push them to trust you to do it when you plow.

What comes around go's around.wesport


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## M.McDaniel (Oct 29, 2004)

Your experiencing a common cost control technique. The way to combat it is to sell this unique service at a premium. Give them what they want, but make them pay for it. Add them as an additional insured on your liability policy and also get a large "umbrella" policy to cover your end, all at their expense plus a handsome profit for the limited availability service. Your a service provider, so provide service, it's as easy as that.


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## KBTConst (Oct 25, 2009)

With the economy the way it is I can see alot more lawsuits popping up quick money for some people. I set my terms not them they dont pay my premium i have to. So if its not good for me I walk away its hard to do but at first but in my best intrest


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## GimmeSnow!! (Oct 23, 2008)

Thank you for all of your advice, I agree with all of you 100%. For some reason I haven't found the types of customers that you're describing. Looks like I've got a lot of selling to do for next winter so I can be more pushy about the salt and not worry about losing the customers. This year I guess I'm just going to have to be a pest and keep suggesting salt and try to keep my butt covered as best as I can. I don't really have any options, I've got families to feed and bills to pay and 3 trucks to keep busy. It just amazes me how many customers I have run into this problem with. When I hear your responses it seems like you don't really have that much trouble with it. I've tried explaining to these people that one lawsuit would pay for the salt their receiving 5 times over. One lady told me that they absolutely don't amend their contracts and acted like I was crazy for even implying that they change it. They want snow pushed at 1.5" and they don't want salt applied unless there's over an inch of snow. I don't understand how 1' of snow is more dangerous than 1/2" of snow. Stupid corporations get stupid lawyers to write up stupid contracts and they have no clue how our business works, they just think we're out to screw them. Sorry about the ranting again, just a little frustrated. Oh Happy belated Thanksgiving everyone.


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## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

I do the same that was mentioned above. If they want salt after the lot has been completed, ther is an additional service charge for me to return to the property and salt. After 1 or 2 service charges, the decesion usually becomes mine.


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

I have found that once a company is hit with one workman's comp case for a slip/fall in the parking lot on company time they always want more salt then is needed. 

I ran into this last year at one of the post office's I did and when I talked to the maintenance guy at the company I am doing now it is the same thing. Salt. salt and more salt and then if in doubt salt it again. They are even telling me they want a gravel lot where they park their semi trailers salted heavy which I am trying to talk them out of. 

I have been told by both places that for years it was no problem. Then one employee got a WC case and after that it was several employee's within weeks of each other and always during the winter in their parking lot. 

Obviously I do not know how much they pay now in WC or how much their monthly payments were increased but it was enough for both places to throw heavy dollars at salting. I had calls on sunny days when there was no precipitation at all but because of a couple of frozen puddles and they wanted it salted. 

It may be a hill to climb to make them obvious but maybe a call in to the store manager after the 1st snowfall with out salt inquiring who to contact to send medical bills to because you slipped in their lot as a customer, anonymously from a no show caller ID phone line.


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

it's a no brainer . really. last time i checked , i was running my business, not the client . that's like me jumping in on the middle of surgery , during a heart transplant directing the dr. on his next move . 
they called for expertise , thats what they'll get.


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## GSShelper (Nov 16, 2008)

TCLA;876724 said:


> It's not horrible to give them that option. We get a few new one's each year that want to be notified so they can approve salt aps. I love waking up managers to tell them we are on site and conditions are such that I recommend the application. If they want to save money and say no....I document the call and move on.
> 
> I can convince most that it's the right thing to do, and after waking them up 5-6 times they usually come around to trusting our judgment and give us discretion. For the ones that say no at 2:00am, then yes at 9:00am (once they get their butt out of bed and see their site) we charge them an additional $150.00 for the special trip.
> 
> The routing is designed for the trucks and crews to be completed and off the roads before the morning rush. It is understood that we will be happy to service them.......however they will be responsible for the additional $150.00 special trip charge if they want service on their time frame.


I agree charge them out the a** to come back out before long they will get tired of paying the extra cash and you can get it done when your there the first time!
GssHelper


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## cseutah (Nov 24, 2009)

on our daysheets the spreader trucks write down times, conditions, and amounts. we also have several customers who want to make the call on melters applied so we put them last on an over night service or as scheduled on a daytime service. if the driver calls and they say they dont want any, the driver writes down name, time, and condition of lot. it has saved me on alot of slip and fall claims. just remember to keep you paperwork in order and it becomes their liability for choosing not to salt. works the same for plowing if you have on call plow accounts, as long as they make the decision and you document it.


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

documentation helps , but when your sued it's up to you to defend yourself . sort of your word vs. theirs . dammed if you do or dont


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Deco;880346 said:


> documentation helps , but when your sued it's up to you to defend yourself . sort of your word vs. theirs . dammed if you do or dont


Not at all.

Documentation is key.


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

really. have you ever been sued ? still need to be represented by a lawyer to show your documents to the court . you just dont fax them to the judge and your clear . 
sign offs help , but if your getting taken to court , bring a lawyer dude . they may have more ammo than you think . 
if i fall on the lot you cleaned and get injured , *salt or no salt* ,you , the property owner your insurance companies and george jetson are all meeting in the court room downtown .no ifs, and or buts. 
you must prove you were not at fault ....in court .


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## azandy (Oct 15, 2008)

If you have a customer that wants to tell you salt or not, That's fine. We have a daycare that wants to do this starting this year. I've been through this many times before. Not a big deal. Simply state, Salting per customer call. Your good. They will call when they want it at 7:00 AM and you can't get back there till 9:00. Your customer will figure out the problem with this and change their mind. You can't just tell them their wrong and walk away. Figure out a solution. Most you will be able to, some you will have to walk. 
If you build your business on quality, you'll eventually get rid of some of these type contracts and be able to hand pick some. We have lowballers all around and I am never concerned. The jobs I lose to them are usually not the greatest customer anyway and some that are good, more that likely will come back. You can use your marketing skills to retain them. But that can be a different post.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Deco;880346 said:


> documentation helps , but when your sued it's up to you to defend yourself . sort of your word vs. theirs . dammed if you do or dont





Deco;880378 said:


> really. have you ever been sued ? still need to be represented by a lawyer to show your documents to the court . you just dont fax them to the judge and your clear .
> sign offs help , but if your getting taken to court , bring a lawyer dude . they may have more ammo than you think .
> if i fall on the lot you cleaned and get injured , *salt or no salt* ,you , the property owner your insurance companies and george jetson are all meeting in the court room downtown .no ifs, and or buts.
> you must prove you were not at fault ....in court .


Not the greatest advice......dude.


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## ff610 (Jan 9, 2009)

TCLA;880394 said:


> Not the greatest advice......dude.


I think what DECO is saying that even with good documentation, its still a costly experience proving your not at fault. You can bet that even with perfect documentation you will be named in the lawsuit and have to defend yourself. Even if you win, it could cost thousands to defend yourself. This is of course a risk we all take just being in business! The key is minimizing your risk. That is probably the thing that I've learned in 19 years of doing the business. I have no problems flushing the customers that seem risky, or the ones that are just a plain pain in the A$$.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

ff610;880547 said:


> The key is minimizing your risk. That is probably the thing that I've learned in 19 years of doing the business. .


Exactly, documentation will save your ass more then ya think.
Most "slip and fall" lawsuits are based on the building owner, or contractors gross negligence. Not on the fact that the plaintiffs wearing heals in a Blizzard, and there negligent. 
There suing you or them because you made no effort to keep the lot what they deem safe.
If you prove (documentation) that you made an effort to remedy the situation, then you are not negligent. Its called due diligence, and if you prove you checked the lot at 3 am, called for salt and received no answer, or a no salt reply, your off the hook.
Documentation can clear up BS claims as well. When they claim they fell at 5:30 am, and you salted at 3am there gonna have a hard time proving negligence as well 

If you wanna play the game, you have to play it to make money, just stay one step ahead of the vultures, and life will be good


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

TCLA;880394 said:


> Not the greatest advice......dude.


* wasnt intended as advise dude , it's Fact *


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

T-MAN;880580 said:


> Exactly, documentation will save your ass more then ya think.
> Most "slip and fall" lawsuits are based on the building owner, or contractors gross negligence. Not on the fact that the plaintiffs wearing heals in a Blizzard, and there negligent.
> There suing you or them because you made no effort to keep the lot what they deem safe.
> If you prove (documentation) that you made an effort to remedy the situation, then you are not negligent. Its called due diligence, and if you prove you checked the lot at 3 am, called for salt and received no answer, or a no salt reply, your off the hook.
> ...


*i'm not getting technical here , but thats what happens in a court of law , their response to you is " you should have serviced the lot SOONER"(claiming temp. vs. salt or clacium application) and they'll create an argument amongst the contractor vs. property owner . Thats what good lawyers do .....*


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## cseutah (Nov 24, 2009)

*Sued*

almost every slip and fall is settled out of court. your company attorney and your insurance company especially will ensure this. if you have the documentation to prove you have done everything within your means to prevent you are less likely to pay anything, most of the time the building owners insurance picks up the tab. we have had numerous slip and fall claims in the 10 years i've been plowing snow. its a part of doing business, wal-mart accounts where the highest on yearly claims. another key thing to remember is its better to be over insured than under. when you carry 3 to 5 mil in coverage your insurance carrier puts their best attorneys on your case.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Deco;880584 said:


> *i'm not getting technical here , but thats what happens in a court of law , their response to you is " you should have serviced the lot SOONER"(claiming temp. vs. salt or clacium application) and they'll create an argument amongst the contractor vs. property owner . Thats what good lawyers do .....*


Are your sure about that ? You have to have a case to make it to court 
Claiming anything does not mean squat.
If the plaintiff can not prove negligence, they have no case. That's the game when it comes to slip and falls. Maybe you should salt every day, just in case right ? If you don't your negligent right ? Seems thats your opinion. There splitting hairs here. 
You cant just roll into court to sue anyone for anything. At least for now....

If your negligent, and your insurance knows it, they will settle. If there is a grey area they will settle as well, to keep it out of court. 
It all boils down to percentages in all settlements. If you made an attempt to salt and were told NO, what percentage are you at fault some clown slipped ?


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

just a thought here, but i run into a similar problem with sanding and snow service (some people want to wait until there is 6inches of packed snow before it gets done) but if it was my contract, and my customer put that kind of stipulation in their contract, i would let them know that i would be documenting any time i contacted them (and i would contact them at 3am if need be) AND if i was sued due to the terms of THEIR contract that after my suit was finished i would be suing THEM for gross negligence since they are the ones that are responsible for incuring salt service. With snow falls, on commerical properties where they have stipulated that they well incure sanding service, all my clients are warned with a registered letter, stating the same thing, most leave it up to me after that. I have never had to do this, but if i did, after my suit was settled with the person that fell i would be suing my customer, and i would think that a judge would have no problem seeing the fact that ultimately the customer was at fault.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

the other thing i would like to point out is that just because a contract states something doesn't mean it is legal, by this i mean that just because they state you have to take all liability doesn't mean a judge well allow that to stand in a court of law, if you can prove you told the property manager it needed salt, and he refused service, a judge is going to take that contract and probably wipe his butt with it


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## bushinspector (Nov 30, 2009)

*Excluding Libility*

One thing that we have thought about was excluding anything that would relate to any injury's at all. Only thing we would be responsible for would be the putting down salt/sand mixture.


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## silvetouch (Jul 29, 2004)

GimmeSnow!!;876084 said:


> I have been walking away but I'm starting to run into similar situations all over the place. I've got three trucks running, two of them on commercial and one on residential and I don't even have enough salt customers to put down a ton of salt in a night. We had two pizza huts that I walked away from because they want to tell us when to put salt down. An apartment complex that won't take salt, three family videos that won't take salt, three autozones that won't take salt, Two apartment complexes that I bid on that want salt at their discretion, a storage unit that has ridiculous requirements and wants to tell us when to put down salt. All the lots that seem like they'll pay anything decent are locked up by companies that have been in business for 20 years. Am I just paying my dues right now?? How long before I can get into the right places to actually make some money?? Where should I look??


don't feel bad. We have a group of self storage places that will only salt if they request it. i heard they only salted 3 times last year. Family video's haven't used salt since they opened and only want to be plowed after 3 inches. also 1/2 of our apartment complexes want calls in the middle of the night before salting. -- also, i have found out in the past Contracts are basically worthless now. so there whole liability BS is exactly that. A lawsuit is only won through some sort of negligence. If they refuse salt, they are negligent, regardless of what the contract says.
You do have to be careful, because they will fight it in a slip / Fall case. Sometimes its better to walk away - sometimes not. It really is a tough call. 
--Off the topic It's also tough to make any money anymore when guys are bidding lots at 80-85 an hour and salting at 85-95 a ton.


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

T-MAN;880714 said:


> Are your sure about that ? You have to have a case to make it to court
> Claiming anything does not mean squat.
> If the plaintiff can not prove negligence, they have no case. That's the game when it comes to slip and falls. Maybe you should salt every day, just in case right ? If you don't your negligent right ? Seems thats your opinion. There splitting hairs here.
> You cant just roll into court to sue anyone for anything. At least for now....
> ...


seems to me your not familiar with the U.S.court process and are ignorant to it . 
any citizen of the U.S. has the right to file a claim any where for any incident.
it's up to the judge to decipher a false claim. you still need attend the procedings if involved .

*your not getting the idea of "costing you $$$" to prove your innocence. *

enjoy the winter season , and be safe .


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## cseutah (Nov 24, 2009)

Deco;881573 said:


> seems to me your not familiar with the U.S.court process and are ignorant to it .
> any citizen of the U.S. has the right to file a claim any where for any incident.
> it's up to the judge to decipher a false claim. you still need attend the procedings if involved .
> 
> ...


Deco, 
we had a lawsuit filed for 4 mil drug out for 2 1/2 years had many court dates, i was not required to be to one, the insurance had their attorneys, experts, and whatever. after all was said and done it settled for 10k and the store insurance paid it. you are correct in some aspects but not anyone can just drag you to court and make you prove your innocence as you say. they cant even get a court date unless all other avenues have been exhausted.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Deco;880581 said:


> * wasnt intended as advise dude , it's Fact *


ok, so here are your facts........



Deco;880346 said:


> documentation helps , but when your sued it's up to you to defend yourself . sort of your word vs. theirs . dammed if you do or dont


Not even close to fact.

It's not a "your word against theirs", or a scenario of damned if you do....damned if you don't. :laughing: :laughing:



Deco;880378 said:


> if i fall on the lot you cleaned and get injured , *salt or no salt* ,you , the property owner your insurance companies and george jetson are all meeting in the court room downtown .no ifs, and or buts.
> you must prove you were not at fault ....in court .


We'll disregard the asinine George Jetson reference.....you are not meeting with me or the property owner. The closest you'll get is a deposition.



Deco;881573 said:


> seems to me your not familiar with the U.S.court process and are ignorant to it .
> any citizen of the U.S. has the right to file a claim any where for any incident.
> it's up to the judge to decipher a false claim. you still need attend the procedings if involved .


Again, very untrue......only the lawyer's from your insurance carrier will be present....they will represent you.

Try suing your city, DOT or any municipality responsible for lack of public safety. More accidents, carnage and death occurs from unsafe road conditions and untreated bridges and overpasses than you can imagine.

Winter conditions are open and obvious, and precedences plays the large role. Like it or not the plaintiff has the burden of proving negligence....not an easy thing to do.

The vast majority of the time the insurance carrier will throw a few grand at you to make the nuisance go away. It will not be heard by a judge.


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## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

T-MAN;880580 said:


> Exactly, documentation will save your ass more then ya think.
> Most "slip and fall" lawsuits are based on the building owner, or contractors gross negligence. Not on the fact that the plaintiffs wearing heals in a Blizzard, and there negligent.
> There suing you or them because you made no effort to keep the lot what they deem safe.
> If you prove (documentation) that you made an effort to remedy the situation, then you are not negligent. Its called due diligence, and if you prove you checked the lot at 3 am, called for salt and received no answer, or a no salt reply, your off the hook.
> ...


i replied to this post . your putting a spin on it now. Last post for me , you win


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Deco;881864 said:


> i replied to this post . your putting a spin on it now. Last post for me , you win


No its not a spin. I understand you think lawyering up to the hilt is the only way out. Not true. What does it cost to file a motion to terminate ?


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

T-MAN;883089 said:


> What does it cost to file a motion to terminate ?


It doesn't really matter because George Jetson will have to pay this.

Don't you see.......the judge downtown will find him culpable of damned if you do, damned if you don't.........


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