# Low ball pricing



## gcbailey

We got contacted from a state agency who's looking to keep an office plowed, their old guy backed out and now they can't find anyone.

The basics - 60k sq ft lot with sidewalks on 3 sides of the building. Zero tolerance from 7:30am-5pm. Lots of public foot traffic.

The guy before was getting $100 per push with salt..........

I thought the lawn care business around here had enough low ballers, sheesh.


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## Mark Oomkes

gcbailey said:


> We got contacted from a state agency who's looking to keep an office plowed, their old guy backed out and now they can't find anyone.
> 
> The basics - 60k sq ft lot with sidewalks on 3 sides of the building. Zero tolerance from 7:30am-5pm. Lots of public foot traffic.
> 
> The guy before was getting $100 per push with salt..........
> 
> I thought the lawn care business around here had enough low ballers, sheesh.


I mentioned it in another thread, sent oot a bid for a small lot and I have basically started charging a minimum, so I was on the high end. $1500 for the season for the lot. Other guy was $875 for the lot and walks for the season.

I just don't care if I don't get bids anymore.


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## BossPlow2010

idk Guys, we lost a bid for a 65k government property, with side about 300 linear foot of sidewalks.
Going to be a very entertaining season watching the company who was awarded the bid :clapping:


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## gcbailey

I haven't heard back so I'm doubting we got it.... One of those private individual owns the building, leased out to state agency. So I guess the moaning and whining from the state doesn't bother the individual till people start slipping and falling all over the place.


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## gcbailey

BossPlow2010 said:


> idk Guys, we lost a bid for a 65k government property, with side about 300 linear foot of sidewalks.
> Going to be a very entertaining season watching the company who was awarded the bid :clapping:


State govt or fed govt?


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## Mr.Markus

Mark Oomkes said:


> I mentioned it in another thread, sent oot a bid for a small lot and I have basically started charging a minimum, so I was on the high end. $1500 for the season for the lot. Other guy was $875 for the lot and walks for the season.
> 
> I just don't care if I don't get bids anymore.


It can be very satisfying driving by places that you know someone else isnt making any money on.
This business (and the lawn business) are pretty low entry points. Anyone can finance equipment, and be gung ho to get the job done. The real perseverance comes from the experience and really the experienced know their costs and profit margins.
I know lots of high equipped companies that talk a huge game, have a crap ton of work but essentially throw manpower and equipment at jobs and claim they are efficient because they get that much more done in a day. Turning over dollars is not profit.


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## gcbailey

For real..... I got into the snow business after my first 5 years in the mowing business. Had a few commercial clients that wanted a single contractor for everything. I got burnt pretty good learning about "adequate salting" my first season.


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## Drock78

Completely agree. I think Facebook and some neighborhood apps have hurt prices. Everyone with a plow is posting and doing driveways for $20 or less. No insurance, no overhead, junk equipment..sure they can do it cheap. Then they don't show up or do a **** job and said homeowner wants to know why you charge more.


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## jasburrito

So how do guys with 50,000 trucks and plow setups compete with 2,500 truck and plow. They ca do the same job. His price for plowing and salting was about as much as a yard mowing per sq ft. I am not gonna try and compete with a fleet of beaters. (Ya i know)


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## Mark Oomkes

jasburrito said:


> So how do guys with 50,000 trucks and plow setups compete with 2,500 truck and plow. They ca do the same job. His price for plowing and salting was about as much as a yard mowing per sq ft. I am not gonna try and compete with a fleet of beaters. (Ya i know)


50,000 trucks? Not sure anyone has that many.


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## gcbailey

jasburrito said:


> So how do guys with 50,000 trucks and plow setups compete with 2,500 truck and plow. They ca do the same job. His price for plowing and salting was about as much as a yard mowing per sq ft. I am not gonna try and compete with a fleet of beaters. (Ya i know)


I don't try to compete with them. We only plow commercial and 75% of that is for existing clients (HOA, industrial sites, etc...). We don't do residential, hopefully never will. We have 3 HOAs that require driveway maintenance and that's more than enough driveways.


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## Mark Oomkes

jasburrito said:


> So how do guys with 50,000 trucks and plow setups compete with 2,500 truck and plow. They ca do the same job. His price for plowing and salting was about as much as a yard mowing per sq ft. I am not gonna try and compete with a fleet of beaters. (Ya i know)


Some well known and successful business people have said your only competition is yourself.

I don't consider someone that prices so low it's unrealistic to be my competition. I have minimums for drives and commercials, plowing, shoveling, salting, salting walks. Don't like it, hire the guy with only 2500 trucks. And they might do the same job this year, but will they next year? Or the next? We've been around for over 80 years, we didn't make it that long by "competing" with 2500 truck operators.


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## gcbailey

Me thinks there should be a $ in front of that 50,000 and 2,500...


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## Mark Oomkes

gcbailey said:


> Me thinks there should be a $ in front of that 50,000 and 2,500...


What?????


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## gcbailey

I thought he talk was talking about a guy with a $50k plow truck vs $2500 beater truck being able to price against them. I don't know , haven't read too closely been cleaning up frozen snow covered leaves all day........


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## cjames808

Leave them in the dust is my approach. To Bizzie to even laugh at most people when I’m going 100mph like a blur. 

My goal for this season is to hear how we are always there.


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## Mudly

A 2.5k truck can compete with a 50k truck?
I guess I’ve been doing it wrong.


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## FredG

If there is a hustler around with a nice inverted set up it won't matter if you got a $50K or $3K beater on residential. He will smoke a guy on time and price.


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## BossPlow2010

gcbailey said:


> State govt or fed govt?


LocaL actually, it's a fire department.
We currently do a federal gov property, and it has been very lucrative for us, I so,etimes wish we had more.


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## gcbailey

BossPlow2010 said:


> LocaL actually, it's a fire department.
> We currently do a federal gov property, and it has been very lucrative for us, I so,etimes wish we had more.


We've got 1 fed also.... Totally agree but they have pretty strict demands. Enough to warrant a dedicated crew.


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## leigh

This is an excellent start toward 50k https://www.cmtruckandtrailersales.com/all-inventory/trucks


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## gcbailey

I'd love to see one of those mini trucks in an hoa environment against a UTV.


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## Drock78

A UTV with BOSS V and a 10ft swing wing back blade would be bad ass


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## HadiCoop

I’ve had lots of calls in the past month or so for snow removal and most have said roughly the same thing when I ask what happened to the last guy, they either say they needed to buy insurance or that they just weren’t doing it anymore. Then when I give them my price they’re completely shocked. 

I’ve lost more than I’ve won so far this season. Oh well, don’t like it too bad.


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## jonniesmooth

FredG said:


> If there is a hustler around with a nice inverted set up it won't matter if you got a $50K or $3K beater on residential. He will smoke a guy on time and price.


Maybe, maybe not. Not if he won't get out and do the sidewalks and steps. Or if he will but has to shovel them


HadiCoop said:


> I've had lots of calls in the past month or so for snow removal and most have said roughly the same thing when I ask what happened to the last guy, they either say they needed to buy insurance or that they just weren't doing it anymore. Then when I give them my price they're completely shocked.
> 
> I've lost more than I've won so far this season. Oh well, don't like it too bad.


I had a new customer last year. She knew our pricing. It was a PITA account 90% hand shoveling, lots of small sidewalks and steps.
She sent a note with her first months payment, telling me " she hoped my guys got faster ".
I sent her back a statement telling her " we don't work for people that don't appreciate what we do".


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## Mark Oomkes

Several of our customers said they were going to shop when they received our increase this year. They all signed up again.


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## Mudly

Mark Oomkes said:


> Several of our customers said they were going to shop when they received our increase this year. They all signed up again.


Wait, you increase prices? I thought it was hip to work with ancient numbers


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## HadiCoop

Mark Oomkes said:


> Several of our customers said they were going to shop when they received our increase this year. They all signed up again.


I think it's one thing to send out an increase to your current client base and still keep them, but another thing trying to get new clients to even sign up at the old price. 
The existing clients know your reliable so they'll gladly pay an increase for great service.


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## cjames808

“No no no, our rates haven’t doubled. Just that the 50% oof sale has ended unfortunately”

Between the tax man, the insurance man, the salt man, the plow dealer, and the rent guy. Not one has kept the same or lowered their pricing. EVER.


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## BUFF

leigh said:


> This is an excellent start toward 50k https://www.cmtruckandtrailersales.com/all-inventory/trucks


Those little trucks would be handy on the ranch but none of use are built like Asians and don't fit.
I do seem them around being used for fence work and irrigating.


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## Mark Oomkes

BUFF said:


> Those little trucks would be handy on the ranch but none of use are built like Asians and don't fit.
> I do seem them around being used for fence work and irrigating.


You would just need to remove the roof. And remove the front seat like Bubba Smith in Police Academy.


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## FordFisherman




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## Mike_PS

guessing this discussion is safe to close out? If not, let's keep the discussion "somewhat" on point


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## m_ice

Michael J. Donovan said:


> "somewhat" on point


Lol


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## Mike N

Drock78 said:


> Completely agree. I think Facebook and some neighborhood apps have hurt prices. Everyone with a plow is posting and doing driveways for $20 or less. No insurance, no overhead, junk equipment..sure they can do it cheap. Then they don't show up or do a **** job and said homeowner wants to know why you charge more.


I'm late to the party for a change but you could say the same for the auto repair industry.....why should Joe Average pay a real tech to fix his car when Craigslist is full of crackheads that claim to be mechanics and Auto Zone will scan your check engine light for free (and sell you a crap load of unneeded 02 sensors)??


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