# Business as usual at Symbiot, They're Back!



## North Country (Nov 14, 2003)

Here it is folks, read it and weep. Any who continues to work for or with (Buying from a P3) is feeding the machine any allowing this to happen....

Mike Edward's comments are smug and narcissistic. Symbiot truely believes they can not be touched and will eat up as many companies as it takes to meet their goals.

When Mike mentions that Symbiot's rep may be tarnished in the snow industry and in the same breath they will be using 80 - 130 subs, this means they will hire as many companies as possible that have not followed this story and those contractors *will get burned.* I am not saying they won't get paid but they will be low-balled and word travels fast so I guarantee they will be treated differently in trade circles.

Read on….. Symbiot will return article 6/2006

Thanks for reading - micahel


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## parrothead (Nov 19, 2003)

i cant wait to see what there new plans and programs are to rebuild trust with the snow providers. i wonder if dave dzubian knows or maybe ray smith would like to chime in on this forum and let us know. they cancelled my contract with symbiot because of things i said on this forum so i know they are reading this. if they are really trying to smooth things over, lets hear from them.:bluebounc


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## duckh03 (Jul 2, 2006)

*symbiot madness...........*

Hey Guys-

I can only imagine how all of you feel about getting screwed by Symbiot, but the only way the word is really going to get out is if we all go public with our stories. The companies that hired Symbiot/Snow Management should also know the people they're doing business with.

My husband worked for them for two years..........Symbiot owes for most of the second year and part of the first year, so when I read Edwards' statement, "all of those contractor claims associated with the SMG merger have been settled," I wanted to throw up!

Anyone game on going public? This is the time to do it since Symbiot is hoping to have their contractors lined up by the end of this month-

This company is so corrupt, let's see what we can do about exposing them!


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## JD PLOWER (May 18, 2001)

Even though I don't technically have dog in this fight I still feel really pissed off the more I read about these guys and the way they look at the industry as a whole. :angry: What I would do aside from posting these things at truck shops or plow dealers is to actually mail a letter telling people about this company and maybe include the article or, if you have worked for them, tell the stories about how you were treated. I realize this would be huge task for one person (and very expensive) since just in the Boston/eastern Massachusetts market alone you would be talking about mailing 500 contractors, at a minimum. I just feel that a direct approach to this problem is best. It lets others know about a companies business practices. I have often thought about doing a similar thing when I feel mistreated by a customer but the size of the market around here makes it difficult to carry out.


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## murray83 (Dec 3, 2005)

i too hate seeing hard working people being taken advantage of but once you seem them back up and running this fall even if you guys in the states (i've never herd of them yet up here in my area of canada,could be wrong?) try and boycott them theres always some guy looking for a buck and is gonna get taken to the cleaners this fall,a shame but thats whats gonna happen  

the big thing in my eyes is make so much noise in the public eye as possible and stop the trend before it gets worse and more lives gets ruined.go on tv,the papers,radio and even here spread the word if enough bad press comes their way you've won the first fight,the second is those of you who haven't been paid........... 

have you guys on here state by state got together and started collecting names? create one large online list and present it to your senator or a lawyer looking to take on this case say a class action lawsuit? even if its so many cents on the dollar its a form of closure in your wallet and mind.

my heart goes out to those that were screwed by this firm and why in the name of god they're still in buisness i'll never know.


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## North Country (Nov 14, 2003)

*Thanks for the support!*

I'd like to thank everyone for their support!

The word is spreading, people are emailing me from all over the country promising to post emails, article, copies of these forums etc. at plow dealers, truck dealers etc.

This is the only way we can fight back, if everyone did their part and spent a couple minutes a day telling another contractor about the situation we will definitely get the word out there. There may be some fly-by-night guys who do not heed the warning and end up working for Symbiot, but they will soon be out of business and Symbiot will be out of options.

Most of our former Symbiot clients have already contacted us to resume service this season because of the shoddy service they received last season by the companies(fly-by-night) that Symbiot replaced us with after we declined their work.

Duckh03 - Thanks and yes we are going public with web posts, formal complaints to P3 partners, contacting Symbiot customers by phone etc. - As I stated above all it is going to take is a few minutes from everybody to bury this company. We also have a sub that is still owed money from the Symbiot/ SMG deal. *Mike Edwards* has made similar statements in every article I have read about him. He *DOES NOT CARE* about the industry or the companies doing the work, if he did *Mike Edwards and Matt Glover would not lie every step of the way*.

Murray83 - If you read our other thread 'Does Symbiot still owe you money?' it is about compiling that master list you speak of, so spread the word and have everyone email me at [email protected]

Good Luck! - michael


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## PSDF350 (Jul 30, 2004)

duckh03 said:


> Hey Guys-
> 
> I can only imagine how all of you feel about getting screwed by Symbiot, but the only way the word is really going to get out is if we all go public with our stories. The companies that hired Symbiot/Snow Management should also know the people they're doing business with.
> 
> ...


Sorry but you make it hard to feel sorry for you. Why would your husband even think of plowing second year when first wasn't paid. Then to keep working when not getting paid. Plan and simple if guys that did do work made sure that payment is received when it is supposed to then half the problems would be solved. Sorry but I cant see continuing to provide service after bills are late. Truth is if it was with any other customer you would have discontinued service till payment was received. So why continue to service for these guys.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

I'm wondering what is the purpose of this action? Let me explain... Every proposal must have a purpose - in this case it appears to be either educational or punitive. If educational, then the action is to make contractors aware of past experiences of dealing with Symbiot. If punitive, then the action would seem to be to exact retribution by causing business failure. If education, then the goal is met when all potential contractors are aware - as noted above. If contractors then choose to do business, or continue a business relationship with them, that is their decision. If punitive, then the goal will be met when Symbiot ceases business activities. To accomplish this, will involve much more than contactor awareness. I wonder about the legal ramifications of the boycotting and other actions being proposed. I would assume someone from Symbiot is making paper copies of all these threads. 

North Country - from your profile you show you are involved with a group of snow removal contractors. I think you would want to be especially careful since this could be construed as an action against a competitor. 

And I still disagree with boycotting associated companies offering discounts. Using the example of North Korea, should we refuse to do business with any country who does trade with N. Korea? Sorry, but that sounds a little like "You can't be my friend if you're friends with Mikey". I think that kind of thing went out around Junior High.


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## Jube (Nov 8, 2004)

*Symbiot*

Robb

Once again you fail to let everyone know the true story re your Symbiot exp.

5/3 made the request to have you replaced for the following reasons:

1. You failed to show up to plow lots that you agreed to plow resulting in the bank employees having to fend for themselves and for the safety of thier customers.

2. On more than one occasion you would show up 12 - 14 hrs after the storm ended.

3. You never took responsibility for your actions - you always blamed someone else - just like you are doing now. I know all of this because as you know and as I have said before I was present at the mtg when 5/3 asked that Symbiot replace you.

4. You did not have sufficient equipment to handle the sites that you agreed to plow. One plow truck and a shovel is not what is required to handle the sites you contracted to do. Yoou and I talked several times and you assured me that you would be able to handle this work. I am happy that I did not go further with you re the work at O'Hare.

What happened to these contractors is terrible but I can only assume that what happened is partly due to thier business practices. I don't mean to bash anyone but I can say that we got paid in full and I have to believe that is due to the fact that we conduct our business in a professional manner, we lived up to our obligations. Now after Symbiot releases the latest news of thier situation you are willing to take action? I think that action should have been taken long ago. Contractors were not paid and they continued to plow? That course of action would last all of 2 snowflakes with us.

I hope that everyone that was wronged gets some kind of settlement but only time will tell. To the contractors that are listening to parrothead -- BE VERY LEARY OF THE TALES HE TELLS, DO NOT GET SUCKED IN TO THE WORLD IN WHICH HE LIVES.

If anyone would like to discuss this further pls pm me and I will gladly forward to you my toll free number.

Good Luck.


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## parrothead (Nov 19, 2003)

just like jube says, if he doesnt get paid, he is not doing anymore work for the company. thats exactly where i was, i hadnt been paid and didnt feel like doing any more work till i got paid. and jube, be very careful, ie slander, when you say i dont have the equipment to do the jobs that i had lined up. im pretty sure youve never been to my place and have seen what i have. we handled cvs's for snow management for the last five years, never had a problem with payment because cvs paid us direct. they never had a problem with service. my cvs accounts were spread over 220 miles and my company personally handled all of the stores, with our own trucks, but we got paid from cvs. AND ONCE AGAIN, THEY NEVER HAD A SERVICE ISSUE WITH MY COMPANY. i kind of wish i could have been at this meeting jube claims to have been at to let 5/3 know that i hadnt been paid, then maybe they would have understood why there were service issues with their property. im the only person on this board that jube can say had service issues, so he will keep using me as the bad person and the reason symbiot didnt pay. but like his own post says, if hes not getting paid, then hes not doing the work. symbiot paid me for 50% of the time but had me under contract for 62% of the time and i still havent gotten paid for stores we serviced in november. check your facts dave, if anything i've said on here is untrue, i will publicly acknowledge it. dave , i challenge you to call me and dispute anything i've said. my number is 815-644-1219. if anyone else wants to call, feel free, thanks rob


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## Jube (Nov 8, 2004)

Robb!

Once again you have demonstrated that you know the Blah,blah,blah routine.

Grow up and put on your big boy pants and admit you were wrong. You know it, I know it, Symbiot knows it and 5/3 knew enough to ask to have you replaced! You have the nerve to mention slander? Go right ahead with your gripes - I hope that other people on this site wise up to your ways before you drag them into the great abyss that you call your life/business.

I have already spent way to much time jousting with you over this. We all know what happened --- YOU COULD NOT LIVE UP TO YOUR COMMITMENTS!!

ADMIT IT AND MOVE FORWARD.

This is my last comment on this subject on this forum. Anyone with any questions can pm me and I will gladly answer any questions that you may have.


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## parrothead (Nov 19, 2003)

hey jube,l your the one making the slanderous comments. the reason i didnt do work for you at ohare was because when you told me i could bring two skidsteers and make $65 per hour per machine and i had to put fuel and labor in it, i didnt feel that was enough so you went out and bought two skid steers yourself. i dont know why you think i need to put on my "big boy pants" as you call it. i would like to see symbiot put on their big boy pants and admit they took on too much! if they didnt, why are they getting out of their committments only to get back in and provide snow service under a different name. to screw the contractor. i wish lisa edwards, marlene perillo or even pj gipson were still around to vouch for my companies service. once again, as long as i get paid, i do the work. dave tells you guys he set in on the meetings to have me replaced like he is an integral part of the symbiot machine. funny, i never had his number for any questions dealing with the 5/3 account. like i said, i had to deal with the three ladies above and drew st john and larry spruill and some other guy from pa.


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## Splicer (Jun 28, 2006)

Is this Symbiot nationwide?


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## murray83 (Dec 3, 2005)

i've honestly never herd of them here in my part of canada.

are they just manageing american facilities?


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## landscapermanut (Oct 21, 2004)

*Some Common Sense*



Mick said:


> I'm wondering what is the purpose of this action? Let me explain... Every proposal must have a purpose - in this case it appears to be either educational or punitive. If educational, then the action is to make contractors aware of past experiences of dealing with Symbiot. If punitive, then the action would seem to be to exact retribution by causing business failure. If education, then the goal is met when all potential contractors are aware - as noted above. If contractors then choose to do business, or continue a business relationship with them, that is their decision. If punitive, then the goal will be met when Symbiot ceases business activities. To accomplish this, will involve much more than contactor awareness. I wonder about the legal ramifications of the boycotting and other actions being proposed. I would assume someone from Symbiot is making paper copies of all these threads.
> 
> North Country - from your profile you show you are involved with a group of snow removal contractors. I think you would want to be especially careful since this could be construed as an action against a competitor.
> 
> And I still disagree with boycotting associated companies offering discounts. Using the example of North Korea, should we refuse to do business with any country who does trade with N. Korea? Sorry, but that sounds a little like "You can't be my friend if you're friends with Mikey". I think that kind of thing went out around Junior High.


Amen Mick. I save over 20K a year through the P3 discounts, rebates, etc. Although I'm sorry you guys have lost money - the majority (90% from what I know) of us partners have not. I hope that the P3s know that the majority are happy and stay on, otherwise I hope Symbiot replaces them quick. I assume that many of the P3s and all of us contractors have had to go through hard times and readjustments like symbiot.

I hope your boycott doesn't work, as it will hurt my business in the shortrun. Maybe you should look into benefitting from the P3 programs to recoup your losses!!


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## Lawn Tek (Jul 17, 2003)

. Landscapermanut

*I assume that many of the P3s and all of us contractors have had to go through hard times and readjustments like symbiot.

We have never in 23 years failed to pay our subs on time . This is nothing more than a PLANNED THEFT OF SERVICES . They were paid for the work we did , why didn;t they foward the money to us ?

I hope your boycott doesn't work, as it will hurt my business in the shortrun. Maybe you should look into benefitting from the P3 programs to recoup your losses!![/QUOTE]*

Maybe you should plow for them for the 06/07 season , and see how it feels to have thousands stole from you like all of the other contractors have !


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## Lawn Tek (Jul 17, 2003)

We were Symbiot "Partners " and they would not pay us , What makes you think they want shaft other "Partners"


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## North Country (Nov 14, 2003)

*Some people just don't think things through...*

*3 Thumbs Up Lawn Tek!*

"I'll have the Roast Duck with the Mango Salsa"

'Maybe everyone should do a little research....' (on the subject)

- michael


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## clive (Jul 18, 2005)

*North Country piggy backs off Symbiot*

I agree with Mick and Landscapermanut in their logical and professional reasoning.

Was Symbiot slow on my payments? Yes.
Do I blame Symbiot for this? Yes.

But, my savings on the P3 and improvements they are making to verify payments to contractors (new CertiPay program - similar to an escrow account) are keeping me on.

Just make sure - Lawn Tek and North Country - that you provide the P3s with the whole picture (favorable - 90% and unfavorable - 10%)

Also, North Country --- can you tell me why when I search Symbiot on Google that your company comes up on the right hand side? The only way for that to happen is if you're using "symbiot" as a key word.

You hate Symbiot, yet you are using them to gain exposure . . . hypocritical?


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## Jube (Nov 8, 2004)

North Country also quotes John Allin on his website ---- How can you "boycott" something when you quote the principals involved and use them to back up your companies credibility?


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## North Country (Nov 14, 2003)

Clive, Landscapermanut - Please email me the information stating that 90% of the service partners are satisfied and 10% are not so that I may post a retraction. Thanks

*Regarding payment:* If you are speaking of landscaping; stop now. Landscapers are paid by a different company (LLC.) That is like me saying "I don't know why you are saying XYZ Management company does not pay because I got paid by Mrs. Smith down the street" Apples and Oranges. - I know most landscapers were paid, sweepers get paid, interiorscape gets paid, pest companies get paid, a colleague of ours got paid - should I go on?

Symbiot said to us that if we did not work for them they season after we were not paid - *"We would move to the bottom of the list for payment."* Unfortunately you had to sign a deal with the devil to even be considered for payment. One of our peers on this site told the group that if you go back to work for someone who owes you money it is your own fault when you do not get paid again.

...to continue on Yes, I have quoted John Allin on our site for my sand vs. salt application section. Some of you may not know but John is very intelligent, you can debate for the rest of your lives on the other things he may be but the quote was appropriate at the time. I have not rewritten our site for lack of time. Not being paid for my hard work leaves little time to catch up on the web site.

Did you happen to catch the other NC ad when you search Symbiot? OK Also it give Symbiot a warm fuzzy to know that we are like 'VISA' - "Evereywhere that you want to be".

Let's take this from a different angle. We work for Symbiot, provide service, client is happy. Last check never arrives. Hmmm, sounds like non-payment! Now our previously happy Symbiot client comes across our add and says "Oh, Yeah - I remember those guys..." (That was not a direct quote) and we get the work GREAT. Now we are using the Symbiot system to "recoup some of our losses" as landscapermanut put it.

Also I have not gone there yet but - *We still have not received our P3 check from Symbiot* we can add that to the pile.

I hope I have satisfied all questions and please remember we are not on trial - We plowed, we de-iced, we upheld our end of the bargin. - michael


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## clive (Jul 18, 2005)

*North Country using "symbiot" as key word on Google*

Yes or no -- Is North Country using "symbiot" as a key word search on Google?

I want to pass this along to Symbiot and see if they can go after you legally.

Money talks as you know! I got my P3 money because I was a member in good standing.

Didn't you quit (replaced) in the beginning/middle of the season? Maybe that's why you weren't paid your P3 rebate.


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## North Country (Nov 14, 2003)

*Slander*

If everone had read my original post I wanted to keep this diplomatic. *Clive you are rapidly approaching slander as you have no idea who I am who I represent or of our dealings with Symbiot. Because of the puerily written comments and posts I must once again forsake plowsite.*

We did not plow for Symbiot year #2 because of non-payment of our last invoice.

As far as google - if you did not associate my last post with using Symbiot as a key word I am sorry. For the record Symbiot is probably my favorite band and I would love to plow for all of their fans.

Regarding contacting Symbiot, please be sure to tell them I said hello and I love Donny and Marie's music..... Also could you ask them if we are to expect any money from the dissolution?

...I don't have much of an appetite, thank you. - michael


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## Jube (Nov 8, 2004)

Clive -

You have to wonder about the subs that were replaced/quit and their situation re not being paid. It sure seems amazing that this dilema seems to be common amongst the complainers.

We plowed, we de-iced, we did our paperwork and guess what----- we got paid.


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## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

clive said:


> Yes or no -- Is North Country using "symbiot" as a key word search on Google?
> 
> I want to pass this along to Symbiot and see if they can go after you legally.
> 
> ...


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## clive (Jul 18, 2005)

Help me understand Charles . . .

there are individuals on this thread making claims about Symbiot and talking about legal action, yet you threaten to boot me off for my claims?

That doesn't seem right????


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## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

clive said:


> Help me understand Charles . . .
> 
> there are individuals on this thread making claims about Symbiot and talking about legal action, yet you threaten to boot me off for my claims?
> 
> That doesn't seem right????


Anybody here threatening to bring legal action against you? Are you Symbiot?
All I care about are the members of this forum.


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## clive (Jul 18, 2005)

*This Thread is over!*

This thread has run it's useful life. Anybody who now reads this will be able to see both sides :waving:


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## North Country (Nov 14, 2003)

*I concur*



Jube said:


> Clive -
> 
> You have to wonder about the subs that were replaced/quit and their situation re not being paid. It sure seems amazing that this dilema seems to be common amongst the complainers.
> 
> We plowed, we de-iced, we did our paperwork and guess what----- we got paid.


Jube - I know what you mean. We have picked up several of our national management company accounts from people who could not seem to follow the procedure to get paid. We have never had any payment trouble with those accounts.

Have a nice day! - michael


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## Lawn Tek (Jul 17, 2003)

*


Jube said:



Clive -

You have to wonder about the subs that were replaced/quit and their situation re not being paid. It sure seems amazing that this dilema seems to be common amongst the complainers.

Click to expand...

*


Jube said:


> We plowed, we de-iced, we did our paperwork and guess what----- we got paid.


Yea , we did all that too , and I have a letter from Symbiots Law Firm laying on my desk , informing me they are dissoloving the company . 
We ,plowed , we deiced , we did our paper work by thier book and we got screwed ! And we are compling a list of contractors who did the same , and I can't wait for all to see . So what they paid a few and shafted many !


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## parrothead (Nov 19, 2003)

jube, which 5/3 stores did you plow,de-ice and did paper work for to get paid, where those mine?


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