# I'm intimidated and need advice



## Gonzoduke0 (Sep 12, 2009)

Ok, first things first: Hello everyone my name's Phil and I'm new (clearly). I do apologize in advance as this post is probably going to be quite lengthy, but I have a lot I want to get off my chest. I would like to say that this is a great forum with a TON of information. So much so, that I need to slow down on the reading posts, searching for answers, and just ask some questions. By some, I mean a lot. 

So I'll start with a quick bio. I'm 28 and live in Massachusetts. I work in construction as a laborer and have for 3 years. It was only going to be a temporary thing at first, but I'm sure some of you know how that can go. I'm getting tired of being the low man on the totem pole. I work extremely hard and intelligently, but it's a small family business so the possibilities for advancement are very small. I might be able to work my way up the ladder to be lead laborer...but other than that, I'm still the #1 gopher and it's just getting old.

My plan is to start a landscaping business (lawn maintenance to start) in the spring. I want to incorporate Snow Plowing into my company so I'm not bored/broke in the winter. Ideally I'd love to start this coming winter, but I'm not sure that I'm ready, financially, mentally, experience...etc. I have many apprehensions about diving into the small business world. I'm not being overly stupid (I hope). I've been doing my research, getting books from the library on running your own business and marketing.

I own a 2001 Chevy Silverado Ext. Cab Short Bed 4x4. From what I've noticed the 7.5 plow seems to be the pick of the litter for this size truck for residential. I hope to purchase one soon.

I guess my question is more philosophical. How did you first get over the jitters of going out on your own? I'm nervous that I'll be a failure and let my family down. We rent an apartment and we're so sick of it, but we're stuck in that rut of not making enough money to be able to save for a house. Obviously I'm not going to up and quit my full-time job tomorrow, but if I could I would.

I'm an intelligent and eager guy that just wants to make his own way in the world. I love working hard at things I love to do. For me, that's Winter Management and Lawn Maintenance, but I'm definitely scared about being my own boss...

Anyway...sorry about the rant/ramble...I've beeing reading so many posts that my eyes are seeing double...oh wait, maybe that's the beer.

I'll figure out what my questions are and post them when I'm more capable of expressing myself less long-windedly.

Nice to be here!

-Phil


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Gonzoduke0;804815 said:


> I guess my question is more philosophical. How did you first get over the jitters of going out on your own? I'm nervous that I'll be a failure and let my family down.


Just went and did it. Most started that way. Most get jitters at the start of every winter, but settle down after the first trip out. It's normal, so just go do it. Take it easy starting out. Think about your next move. Everyone gets stuck every so often, so have a plan on how to deal with it.

7.5' plow is right for that truck.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Go easy. Just hope your first snow is easy and early to give you time to figure it out. By the 3-4 snow you'll be plowing like you'd been doing it for years.


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

Just about everyone starts like you want to. Put an ad in the local paper and try to pick up a few accounts thie year and if you do a good job next yar will be even easier.
Talk to neighbors for a few easier accounts.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

If you are real nervous, you might consider doing some sub work for a larger contractor. This will give you a chance to get a feel for plowing, and the business. That's how I started, and I believe many others here did the same.

Either way you'll be fine. The fact that you're nervous is good. I would rather see that then some blowhard who thinks he can do it all, yet has never put a plow on or pushed a flake.

Attitude is most important, and you've got that covered. Do you have any friends in the business? Maybe they can help you with what the local pricing structure is.

Best of luck to you.


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## MeeksCo (Oct 31, 2008)

I believe we were all in your position at one point. 
When it comes to winter managment, you'll enjoy it. 
The downfall? It can be very expensive. 
Like most guys you will see on this site, they push a lot of snow, spread a lot of salt, and make a lot of money doing it. 
You wont! So don't go out and purchase a two thousand dollar plow tomorrow. (Though, purchasing snow plowing equipment farther before winter will save you money. Prices go up on that stuff when the flakes start to fall). 
Look on Craigslist. Find a used Western 7'6" plow. Easier to install, easier all the way around in my opinion. 
You'll find a nice used Meyers or Western on Craigslist.

I currently own a 7'6" Western old fashioned cable operated plow. I love it. I feel as If i have more control in what the plow will do. It was cheaper to purchase and get my foot in the door. I still have it and don't plan on upgrading until this one falls apart or I somehow come across tree that grows dollar bills. 
Don't expect to purchase a salt spreader and buy a bunch of salt. 
Just plow drives! 
Door to door. Flyers. Handouts. Vinyl's on your vehicle. Cheap easy business cards. (VistaPrint.com...only have to pay about $10 for shipping on 100+ cards).

Charge anywhere from $25-40 for a regular drive. $40 and up for longer/more difficult drives. Don't lowball yourself (for many reasons). 
Don't make guarantees your first year. Make 'agreements' verbally or on paper. Act confident. 
Make sure you get your auto insurance changed to a commercial liability policy that covers snow plowing and property damage. VERY IMPORTANT!

You'll learn to backdrag, push heavy snow, where to put snow, etc. as you begin to plow. Also search on Plowsite. There are a ton of threads that discuss this.

If you ever need help with contract/agreement/per visit samples/marketing signs...let me know. Or, you can visit this thread that I just got done posting a few in:
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=84098

Good luck.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Welcome to plowsite:waving:

What is your truck? 1500 or 2500?

does it have plowprep?

Do you have a buddy with a plow?


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## Gonzoduke0 (Sep 12, 2009)

Awesome encouragement guys, thanks a lot. I definitely feel a little more confident knowing that I'm not the only person who felt nervous in the beginning. My truck is a 1500. I know I will need to eventually upgrade to a 3/4 or 1 ton, but from what I've read in other posts, my 1/2 ton should work fine as a starter. 

As far as plow prep, what do you mean? Yeah, I know a couple of people in the construction business who also plow during the winter so I have some backups if I need them. 

One question I have has to do with subbing. How would I go about doing that? Just call a few places that advertise plowing and ask "Do you need someone on your sub list?" I know that one seems obvious but I don't want to step on toes or anger anyone.

I've done a little bit of plowing myself, just around the shop and a couple of our homeowners backyards (so the taladine/moffett can get the stock in) and like I said, I have a pretty level head so I'm hoping that my learning curve is high this winter.

I will definitely be getting commercial liability insurance as soon as I get my dba and tax ID in order (hopefully this week) for my overall company.

I've already got my business cards designed and I'll price advertising in the paper. Luckily I live close to a few heavily populated cities and some nicer suburbs.

How far away tends to be too far? I know that the idea is to cluster your accounts so the driving time is minimized, but I'm wondering how far the cutoff tends to be. 

Anyway, more questions as they come. You've all been great and I thank you for your advice and support. I'm one of the people that will listen to your time-tested knowledge so please impart as much as you can. And yes, I will keep reading past posts. 

I've gotta take a break for a little while cuz I can't see straight yet. (ripped it up last night with some friends I haven't seen in years) 

Thanks for all the help.

-Phil


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Gonzoduke0;805140 said:


> Awesome encouragement guys, thanks a lot. I definitely feel a little more confident knowing that I'm not the only person who felt nervous in the beginning. My truck is a 1500. I know I will need to eventually upgrade to a 3/4 or 1 ton, but from what I've read in other posts, my 1/2 ton should work fine as a starter.
> 
> *1/2 ton will be fine for a starter. Pretty common*
> 
> ...


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Nascar24 (Feb 11, 2006)

Gonzoduke0;804815 said:


> I own a 2001 Chevy Silverado Ext. Cab Short Bed 4x4. From what I've noticed the 7.5 plow seems to be the pick of the litter for this size truck for residential. I hope to purchase one soon.
> 
> I
> -Phil


Phil

Welcome to the forum!

Starting a new business always brings wedding day jitters, I started my last business on Black Monday which was a day the Stock Market did a Nose Dive back in 1988! The stock market took the hit, my business grew from three employees to 10 within two years and bought a and build a new 1/2 Million dollar facility, + $200K in New equipment all at 27 years old!,Some 12 years later I sold my majority interest , made a few bucks butkept the real estate. Two years ago I burn't the mortgage, now making nice income from the rent. It's all about taking a risk if you are hardworking level headed and determined the snow plowing business should be a piece of cake!

So if your ready to make your first big investment in your new venture take a look at this:

































This is a complete package for an 01 Chevy 1500, totally redone, $2750 installation is availbale . I'm 25 miles south of you, Give me a call if your interested

508 753 6617
Jay


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## Kramer (Nov 13, 2004)

Hi Phil...welcome to the site.


One word of advice--before you go hog wild with plowing, do yourself a favor and do a quick spreadsheet of income vs expenses. In short, most people dont realize how much it takes to break even. Remember that every winter is different and nobody can count on xxx number of storms/year.

That being said, if you buy a plow, get liability insurance, upgrade your registration to commercial... and so on, it adds up quick. You might end up plowing 15-20 drives all yr for free.

I am not trying to scare you off or discourage you from plowing--- I just hate to see people buying equipment to figure out that they make $2 profit at the end of the year--especially if they have a little one at home to feed.

If you're going forward, please figure about 7 plowable storms in your area for a year. You will likelly get more than that, but its good to be conservative in your estimates.

So 20 drives x $35 avg for 7 events/yr = $4900 gross.

Plow--- ~ $4000
Liability-- ~ $800
Gas during plowing ~ $300
Commercial truck insurance $1000
Commercial registration --(new Ma requirementrs in Oct 09)-- $20 /1000gvw over 5000 gvw ~$120

Advertising ~ $250
Repairs to truck ?????
Tires/shocks, plow mounting prep ???
Property repair (mail boxes, lawns, curbs, garage doors) ???
Snowblower for walks??? ~ $500
Shovels, gloves, boots coffee, flashlight batteries, hat, ~ $200



Anyway, plug in what you need and do a quick sanity check. It won't stop you from plowing but it will make you know how many customers you need to break even... its important.


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## MeeksCo (Oct 31, 2008)

Wow Kramer, now that you put it that way...I think I am losing money at the end of the year!! 
I'm selling everything tomorrow! 
LoL


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Many of those expenses posted by Kramer can be "absorbed" in other parts of his work. Truck registration, insurance, tires, repairs, etc. And the plow should be at least a five year piece of equipment, so that is written off over several years. And I don't think it's unreasonable to figure at least ten events in Leominster. Sure, you might get only seven, but you might get twenty.


Yes, do the numbers. Yes, be conservative in your estimates. Yes, there is money to be made. Yes, there is fun to be had. Best of luck to you.


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## juspayme (Jan 4, 2006)

best advice. work hard save 20 grand. your jiters will then be gone. dont ever i mean ever spend money untill you have that amount. dont buy things when your making good money. dont let women run or convince you to buy stuff and dont buy stuff you dont need untill you have that amount save,

most guys get into business and when that money comes in fast in the spring, they think they are milionaires. trust me i been doing this for alot of years. i watch them finance 40000 trucks and 10000 dollar mowers and when it doesnt snow or rain there screwed,

when i quit my job at 25 i was scared. i didnt have alot of money saved. i worked hard. made sure i had a money cusion, im good today.

never buy i mean never buy an item over 500 dollars without sleeping on it.


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## MeeksCo (Oct 31, 2008)

umm....................


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

cwpm... this is just a thought. one thing I and others always b*tch about is the lack of reliable sidewalk/shovel labor. Yes, the work ain't fun, but I see a nich market for someone and other than the work kind of sucking, I wonder why there out more people starting out this way.

Most companies here are billing out $35-50 per hour for a shoveler... who is paid $20 an hour tops. The overhead? a shovel, plus wage, and worker's comp unless your using rent-a-bums. Ok, here me out because I know that you personally do not want to operate a shovel.

You already mentioned you are getting into lawn care. Let's say you invest in a good, gently used out-front mower with quick-attach options for a blower/blade/brush... Maybe even an enclosed cab. We just bought one for $4k. You hire a few laborers, buy a trailer and snowblower or two, and start calling bigger snow contractors. Go after commercial. I know that if we had a rock-solid and reliable sidewalk sub, we would probably retain little margin as we could take on more plowing if the sidewalk issue was handled.

This would allow you to kill two birds with a modest investment. I would guess that your truck is your daily driver, and it would only be towing a trailer. You'd be running your machine, making money off your laborers (and dealing with their headaches), and studying how the plowing is done and how long things take.

again, just a thought.


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## Gonzoduke0 (Sep 12, 2009)

Couple words: You Guys Rock!

Thanks again for all the advice. 

I have no plans of spending all the money I'm gonna be working hard to earn. Saving every penny I can. And I actually don't have to worry about my woman. She's not a materialistic type and she is probably my biggest source of support. Keeps reassuring me that we'll make it work even if things get tough.

What do you mean by a 5 year piece of equipment? Just that I have to have and use it for 5 years? Is that some sort of standard that the IRS upholds in order to write it off as a business expense?

I'll be crunching some serious numbers over the next couple of months, not mention doing a lot of legwork, but you're all really giving me even more confidence that I can do this.

Thanks a lot.

-Phil


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Gonzoduke0;805582 said:


> Couple words: You Guys Rock!
> 
> Thanks again for all the advice.
> 
> ...


It helps having a wife who is supportive. Mine has always said she'd support me whatever I decided to do when I was contemplating different careers/expenditures, etc.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Gonzoduke0;805582 said:


> Couple words: You Guys Rock!
> 
> Thanks again for all the advice.
> 
> ...


Your plow should last you at least five years. So from a profit&loss perspective, you don't have to take the plow money all out of your first year revenue. From a cash flow perspective, you need to pay for the plow all at once, or borrow the money. From an IRS perspective, you can depreciate the asset a a couple different ways. Over several years, five I think; or write it all off in one year; or some combination of the two. It makes the most sense to depreciate the same way you pay for it. But it's tempting to take the charge the first year and reduce your tax liability. You probably won't figure that out till tax time next spring.


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## Kramer (Nov 13, 2004)

cwpm410;805517 said:


> Wow Kramer, now that you put it that way...I think I am losing money at the end of the year!!
> I'm selling everything tomorrow!
> LoL


Actually, I know multiple people that thought they'd buy a plow and be rich by spring.... check craigsist and you might find their stuff.

You can juggle the numbers any way you want-- it wasn't my intention to give details of how to operate his business. I was just pointing out that he might spend a lot of money and have a cash flow issue in the spring---in which case he will be looking for lawn maint equip and have little to support that effort. It appears that he has a truck so far--thats great but there's a lot more to it, which is what I was hoping to put forward.

Yes a lot can be depreciated and yes if he's also planning on doing landscaping he can spread some out. But, right now he's NOT doing landscaping and that has its own equipment purchases to get around.

I hope you are making money at the end of the year-- I hope we all are. But doing some quick numbers before getting into any business just makes sense. If he's got extra money investing in a sander might be a good choice to up the revenue considering we always have ice storms.

Just remember that sure, you might be able to count on 10 storms but considering the rate of un-employment this year prices are likely to go down--- anybody with a snow blower will be your competition this year. Maybe he cant get 40 accounts at the $20 /house going rate. Thats why its important to juggle some numbers.

Take a poll and see how many customers the new guys recently got in their first year. Now downgrade that a little because Mikey will be shoveling this yr because Daddy lost his job.


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## dieselpusher (Nov 29, 2006)

i agree with everything. iwent nuts although i dont run my own business i am high up in the ranks at my landscaping job.

im a driver/laborer basically what youll be. althought i have people working below me. getting out and getting dirty is where the money is. many people frown upon this work because of what it is, dirty sweaty cold hot, all the above. but thats why some people are meant to be behind a desk and others are meant to be driving international dump trucks =]. 
you got your basic down you have a good solid truck. it may not be a 1 ton or it may not be a diesel. but youll be surprised especially with a short box. you can make some turns that me or other cant. its an awesome driveway truck and youl have alot of fun opening it up in a nice parking lot.

get yourself a used plow or if youd like to talk to nascar who posted earlier. he has some really nice brand new looking refurbs that he does an awesome job cleaning up.

get local accounts i do sometimes have to drive 20 25 minutes one way to a job. but its a big commercial lot where all the money is. talk to local neighbors and little businesses. bargain with them tell them youll do it for a better price then what there getting. stress the fact that you have insurance and your covered. 
as for a helper. find a neighbor hood kid maybe 18 years old and throw him a few bucks. not 20 bucks pay him what you would expect to be paid if you were shoveling.

it gets him out and away from trouble and saves you from the back breaking work as well.

i hope this helps you out and remeber to keep your head up especially in these times where the market isnt the best.

PM me or email me [email protected] if you have morequestions

Sean


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Kramer;805802 said:


> Actually, I know multiple people that thought they'd buy a plow and be rich by spring.... check craigsist and you might find their stuff.


Sad, but true. "For Sale - nearly new 7.5' plow. Only used one winter".


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Good luck to you Gonzo.........you sound like a smart young man. Your hard work will pay off for you.


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## Top Dog (Sep 13, 2009)

Gonzo/Phil

Made me think of the day back in 92 when I started I had one truck went and bought a plow several states away and tried to install it myself with no air tools or anything...lol

I like a few comments here like the one of developing a sidewalk crew great idea everyones headache in snow and I also like the sub work but what I would suggest is finding a family friend or friend of friend who has a decent size landscaping company and offer to sub for them they will be more willing to teach you the little things that I know many of us forget until we see something wrong and it reminds us to teach what we have learned. the big companies have way too many accounts and really just want to get it down for the most part. the keys to growing have been said but I can think of a few more 

-never over commit once you do and if you get that Blizzard your name is mud better to make good money then try to hit a home run

- constant communication with whomever your work for or with things go wrong and do not hide it just let them know makes you look great

- this one might not get the best reviews but it really worked well for me develope a relationship with your local equipment dealer fisher western myer whatever but I suggest buying from them and stopping by to talk shop often they will tell the guys i spoke with above about you and reffer you to them if they ask for help another benefit with that relationship is if i called my guys at 3am for a breakdown they are in the shop or on site by 315 to get me thru the storm and one thing you can never afford is down time PERIOD first year or 20 years they will kill you .... in a few years when you have couple trucks or whatever breakdowns hurt but with one peice currently your sinking without it on the road 


these seem like minor details but they have helped me grow to one of the largest in area

I will help anyway you want just PM or email me and I will try to answer anyway I can 

stay small and focused for couple years and you will grow off refferals alone which makes it nice to not have to lowball


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## Lux Lawn (Jan 5, 2004)

Mick;805586 said:


> It helps having a wife who is supportive. Mine has always said she'd support me whatever I decided to do when I was contemplating different careers/expenditures, etc.


Same here.

I left a good paying job to start my own landscaping/ Plowing business. Its a scary thing going out on your own. It is tough at first building up a customer base...but it can be done. You can learn the basics to plowing in a short time. 
Seems like Nascar24 might really be able to help you get started.

Good Luck.


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## Gonzoduke0 (Sep 12, 2009)

Kramer: I honestly do appreciate what you're letting me know and believe me, it's giving me cause to think even harder about this descision. On the one hand, I'm working for someone else where I get a guaranteed weekly paycheck and insurance. On the other hand though, I don't make nearly enough to ever hope to own a house. There's no room for advancement and hence, no room for raises. I already do a ton of backbreaking work without any reward beyond my weekly pittance. I wake up in the morning, almost every day, and wonder how I let myself work a job that I hate. It's true, the first 6 months were great...it's been a decline ever since. 

Believe me when I say that I'm more nervous than I can convey when it comes to making a descision like this, which is why when I wake up or when I get home I rush to the computer to see what any of you guys have to add. So far, your post has been one of the most literally informative. The formula is definitely something I'll be tinkering with. Though I will also admit, your posts have been the most distressing in some ways. 

I'm just tired of being under someone else's heel. Even if I just break even over the winter and don't have 20 grand saved (as someone else suggested) I'll have the piece of mind (peace of mind) that I'm finally doing something for my future, and that of my family, based soley on my work ethic and determination.

I'm not going to just jump into this in a foolhardy manner. I won't be one of those people selling their plow in the spring just to make ends meet. I am an all or nothing kind of person. You gotta jump in the deep end of the pool to learn to swim. Always have been, plus I'm one of the most stubborn people I know, so when I get an idea going I don't back down.

Do I think that one winter of plowing and shoveling and doing everything that comes along with that is going to make me all of a sudden financially set and all my worries will melt away? No...but I do know that I'll have finally tried and my guy instinct is telling me that I need to do this.

So again, I appreciate everything you guys are telling me, even if some of it can be more of the "reality check" kind of advice. I am taking it all to heart and under heavy consideration. 

Thank you
-Phil

P.S. I am just a long-winded poster...I can't seem to help but rant and ramble


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Listen to big acres also.......I use a lot of subs. BY FAR the top sub who grosses the most payup from us supplies' us with sidewalk labor. There is something to be said about that niche. Vans and shovels are cheap.

Good luck kiddo.....


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

TCLA;805936 said:


> Listen to big acres also.......I use a lot of subs. BY FAR the top sub who grosses the most payup from us supplies' us with sidewalk labor. There is something to be said about that niche. Vans and shovels are cheap.
> 
> Good luck kiddo.....


TCLA -thanks for the mention, I thought the idea went largely overlooked since there were no comments... must be the reason sidewalk help is scarce... supporting the idea that it is a wide open market for anyone with the ambition to specialize in it.

I am not an owner, but if I went back 10-15 years I would have done this to start my own biz.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

big acres;806157 said:


> TCLA -thanks for the mention, I thought the idea went largely overlooked since there were no comments... must be the reason sidewalk help is scarce... supporting the idea that it is a wide open market for anyone with the ambition to specialize in it.
> 
> I am not an owner, but if I went back 10-15 years I would have done this to start my own biz.


Could be you bring strengths and attributes that enable your boss to focus on bigger and better things. Not a horrible place to be.........unlike Mark O good bosses who aren't control freaks do this. 

I'm in the same boat as you.


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## Gonzoduke0 (Sep 12, 2009)

I have a question in regards to subing. 
Does the person you sub-contract for determine your prices? Or will they ask me (when I call) for a per push price? I guess I actually have no idea how the whole sub-contracting thing works and don't want to start calling people and come off as a total donkey, which I may be at this point.

Thanks 
-Phil


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

Gonzoduke0;806420 said:


> I have a question in regards to subing.
> Does the person you sub-contract for determine your prices? Or will they ask me (when I call) for a per push price? I guess I actually have no idea how the whole sub-contracting thing works and don't want to start calling people and come off as a total donkey, which I may be at this point.
> 
> Thanks
> -Phil


I'd say go for per push during the overnight stuff. If he's sold it high enough for him to make an acceptable margin, then he won't care how long it takes you as long as you meet the deadline. As you get better, your time onsite will go down -not your price.

You will still want to know what he pays hourly, to measure against others. The best of both worlds would be the per-time overnight push, but hourly when doing clean-ups or open-ups during business hours.


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## plowmaster07 (Feb 1, 2009)

Hi Phil, 
Just wanted to say that it sounds like you have a good idea of what you want from the business. If you have any questions for a local guy (Ashburnham), Just send me a PM.
good luck,
Aaron


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## thesnowman269 (Nov 7, 2009)

subscribed..


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## In2toys (Jan 25, 2006)

My biggest regret at starting my own company was not having health insurance completely dialed in. Definitely look into that, especially if you have any preexisting conditions...


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## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

I had the jitters when i first plowed with a pickup instead of a backhoe. so the first snow fall wasn't much i drove down the street from my house where there are a couple schools and started plowing those lots (they were not my contracts, I guess when the guy showed up he was probably like what the hell. I only did part of the lots though) just to get a bit of time behind the wheel with the plow. i then went home plowed my driveway again, then off to my customers houses. Not one hickup at all everything went perfect and i loved it.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

ScnicExcellence;880836 said:


> ...i drove down the street from my house where there are a couple schools and started plowing those lots (they were not my contracts, ....




Schools??? YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!!!


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## ajman21 (Oct 30, 2009)

"We rent an apartment and we're so sick of it, but we're stuck in that rut of not making enough money to be able to save for a house." from your original post just in case u've forgotten with all these responses.
I am new to the industry as well and understand what your talking bout with the desire to start your own buisness but I might be able to help a little. first Bout the saving for a house; I have no clue what your finances r like but Im 23 married 1.5yr and own my house and I can help you with that part even without your being finacialy set because my wife and I r by no means at that point! first if you have a job and can pay rent u can afford a modest house. why pay some one $550 to rent when you can pay $450 to own a starter house. 
ill pm you with info on how we bought our home with that same rut ur in! 
as to the plow i asked a friend who plows if he knew any one selling one week later found a well used western with a rebuilt (end of last season) meyer pump and my friend will help me install whole set up $500 dont buy new!


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## Bolt-1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Gonzoduke0;805582 said:


> I have no plans of spending all the money I'm gonna be working hard to earn. Saving every penny I can. And I actually don't have to worry about my woman. She's not a materialistic type and she is probably my biggest source of support. Keeps reassuring me that we'll make it work even if things get tough.
> 
> -Phil


You must not be married yet. :laughing::laughing:

All in all you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. I hope things go very well for you with the business endeavors.


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## Amara (Dec 13, 2009)

Heya,
I was in your shoes and just started my own business recently, because I live with my brother and another guy and was also tired of my family looking down at me, and tired of not being able to have anything nice. I did business management for the last 3 years in massage therapy, and just took a contract for one year, only to find that the business is not getting me massage clients, and overall screwed me. 

What I'm doing is starting light, rather than saving up and then possibly losing all that and having nothing. You'll find I'm sure dozens of people that will say no to you and your service, but there is people out there that are disabled, working all day, elderly, ect and will be thankful for you to come by with your service. Just remember, even though you are getting paid, you are still doing them a favor. 

If you are currently doing all the work by hand, taking on a few more places in the same fashion would cut your costs drastically, and help give you a starting clientele. Once this builds up, THEN you should think of getting a plow. Having the clients first will help a lot with giving you extra reassurance that your plan will be a success.

Keep your job, and just take a few people for after your main work until you have a small but steady clientele. once you have enough extra clients to pay for costs and a little extra, go for it. tell your boss your tired of his crap and go. Or just stop showing up 

Just remember, it's INCREDIBLY important to have a good business plan, know what areas are best for you to work in (the less travel, the more value). You want to know who your market is so you know how to advertise. the paper works for some, but generally, for a larger service (like plowing, which takes more trust), a person on average has to see an add with your name 4-6 times before responding is considered, which can get expensive.
Look up in your area, what communities has the most elderly, disabled, big spenders, ect? drive around one day after it snows and see where the most unplowed drives are? pick your area before you go out. then advertise in a more personal manner to these places. Go door to door, leave posters on the doors (not mailboxes), mail in a postcard to the unplowed houses, ect. 

I leave a poster on the door of unplowed homes that there's no answer for, with a current estimate (since some people left the snow to build up), a heavy snowfall estimate, and a light snow fall estimate.

Also, check if a handi-bus goes through. They wont advertise for you, but make your poster look like a charity thing, giving a free plowing or something, and give it to the drivers and tell them that if there is any disabled people that seem to need help with plowing, to give them a certificate. You'll only get stuck plowing for free once, and it gives you a face to face opportunity to convince them to buy your service.

People renting sometimes have a lot of houses and can't plow them all, and sidewalk fines are hefty. Go on Rentfaster or something and call some of the Landlords. Call all of them if you want, and offer your services.

If you live in a big city, go on google maps, and walk around an area virtually to see what the houses are like. you can generally get an idea what the income levels there are by looking at the house it's self, the cars in the driveway, and kid's toys. 

Good luck!


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Welcome, Amara. Good post with some good information, but I would disagree with one point. You're not doing your customer any favors; You are providing a service and being paid accordingly. You both need the other.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

do a full business plan. most people dont, they dont set up a budget either their first few years. Its easy to get on a roll, just buy a bunch of stuff you think you need. juspayme - said alot that you need to keep in mind. just becasue its a great deal and might make life better, can your pocket afford it?

also you need to start thinking in a big picture sence, but you cant exclude any details... for example , you could go buy that plow tommarow...but where will you store it when not in use? will it be secure? you know the moment you put a plow on yoru truck, you need to figure extra fuel (its worst than pulling a trailer sometimes) and also start saving for repairs.... thats just one example, you need to look at the big picture, how to grow yoru company. how are you going to get out of your appartment.? creat a plan that includes a budget, and saving for verious iterms that the business will need, and then stick to that plan


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## stillen (Dec 7, 2003)

Phil,

I'm in Leominster also..... If you need some help just PM me.... I don't know how far you've gotten since your original post, plow on truck, etc.... But i can always back you up if you get in a bind....or if you think you got over your head...

Mike


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## t.i.b (Jan 17, 2009)

you may want to look into plowing for a town also. its good pay and you dont have to deal with customers or chase people down to get payed. i subed and did driveways but for the last 2 yrs have plowed for lowell ma and like it.


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