# How much to invest first year



## sbaer2

Looking at adding residential snow plowing to my landscape business this season. I have been giving myself anxiety about the decision and investment. I am only planning to commit to about 10 pretty straight forward driveways. I just want to learn the ropes for a year or two so I can move into commercial in a few years.

My dilemma. I can get a gently used western MVP3 blade installed for about $5800.

Second option is to go with a used western straight blade installed for anywhere from $3200-$5000.

which do you think is a better move for a person just getting feet wet in the industry?

I’ll also need to invest about $700 into better lighting but that’s with either blade.

I have enough work between my residential and helping friends with their commercial lots as sub. Just need snow and I HATE spending money. I stress over a $100 purchase let alone several thousand


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## jonniesmooth

Whatever you can afford to pay cash for, without reducing your savings to a point that you will worry about that.
You understand the problem, you can line up enough work. But you can't make it snow.


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## dieselss

So your still not decided on straight or V?

And why do you need 700.00 lights off the bat?


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## Randall Ave

dieselss said:


> So your still not decided on straight or V?
> 
> And why do you need 700.00 lights off the bat?


This. You can get a cheap set of lights for bout $100.00


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## cwren2472

I'm confused - in another thread you stated you already bought a used Fisher 8.6 XV2 and just had questions on transporting it home?

Edit: actually we went from "Western straight blade or Western V"

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/western-plow-advice-straight-vs-mvp.181610/
To a 9.5 XV2

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/96-xv2-for-residential.181679/
to "how to transport my 8.5 xv2"

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/86-fisher-xv2-and-driving-home.181718/
And now we are back to "straight or v"? Is this like the circle of life?


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## sbaer2

dieselss said:


> So your still not decided on straight or V?
> 
> And why do you need 700.00 lights off the bat?


My trucks reverse is pretty terrible and I have a crew cab. So between back rack and mounting lights on the rack.


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## sbaer2

cwren2472 said:


> I'm confused - in another thread you stated you already bought a used Fisher 8.6 XV2 and just had questions on transporting it home?


I guess I don't need them but yeah I'm not sure between v or straight


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## EWSplow

I'm a fan of V plows, especially on residential and tight lots, but it depends on the layout of the driveways. With a V, you have the option to move the snow where you want it in scoop. My plows probably get more use in scoop than any other position.

And again, why $700 in lights? Are you talking strobes, etc or plow headlights?

Edit: you have a back rack, or feel the need to buy one?
Superbright off road backup light bulbs are an inexpensive way to get brighter reverse lights.


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## Hydromaster

$700 buys a lot of jagoff lights.


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## cwren2472

Hydromaster said:


> $700 buys a lot of jagoff lights.


But I've heard you can never have "too many"


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## sbaer2

Hydromaster said:


> $700 buys a lot of jagoff lights.
> 
> 
> Hydromaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> $700 buys a lot of jagoff lights.
> 
> 
> 
> most would be for back rack which I wanted anyway
Click to expand...


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## Hydromaster

A wall of light.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...577129469399182&utm_content=Low Priority ORBshttps://www.walmart.com/ip/42Inch-L...137d067647271ba9ba9d67fc38af6a83&gclsrc=3p.ds


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## dieselss

sbaer2 said:


> My trucks reverse is pretty terrible and I have a crew cab. So between back rack and mounting lights on the rack.


Huh? I spent approx 100.00 on led spots. Plenty bright.


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## sbaer2

dieselss said:


> Huh? I spent approx 100.00 on led spots. Plenty bright.


Sorry. Should have been more clear. I don't want to mount them onto bumper or roof. Would be getting back rack as well.


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## EWSplow

Then, its not really an investment for plowing snow.


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## dieselss

sbaer2 said:


> Just need snow and I HATE spending money. I stress over a $100 purchase let alone several thousand


So 700.00 in a back rack...(which is pretty much for looks...pretty much) and lights isn't giving you the jitters...but 100.00 is...odd


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## dieselss

sbaer2 said:


> I don't want to mount them onto bumper or roof.


Mine aren't.


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## EWSplow

Hydromaster said:


> A wall of light.
> https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...577129469399182&utm_content=Low Priority ORBshttps://www.walmart.com/ip/42Inch-L...137d067647271ba9ba9d67fc38af6a83&gclsrc=3p.ds


Would that be too much draw on an electric Jeep? Asking for someone else...


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## sbaer2

dieselss said:


> Mine aren't.


Where did you mount ?


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## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> Where did you mount ?


In the socket already in your tail lights.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MW2DMR4


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## dieselss

sbaer2 said:


> Where did you mount ?


Under the bumper in front on hitch...


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## sbaer2

dieselss said:


> Under the bumper in front on hitch...
> View attachment 223095


ahh thank you for sharing. This makes more way more sense and economical. Clearly im green because I thought i had to drill holes in bumper and i wasnt trying to do that!


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## sbaer2

cwren2472 said:


> I'm confused - in another thread you stated you already bought a used Fisher 8.6 XV2 and just had questions on transporting it home?
> 
> Edit: actually we went from "Western straight blade or Western V"
> 
> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/western-plow-advice-straight-vs-mvp.181610/
> To a 9.5 XV2
> 
> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/96-xv2-for-residential.181679/
> to "how to transport my 8.5 xv2"
> 
> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/86-fisher-xv2-and-driving-home.181718/
> And now we are back to "straight or v"? Is this like the circle of life?


the guy who was supposed to install the fisher bailed on saturday and now next earliest date would be the 20th but he wont really commit to it. I cant be planning a business around "maybe"...so now im back to square one.


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## Hydromaster

Install it yourself, if your going to be in this industry it’s time you learned how to spin a wrench.

And what away to learn building your own plow rig


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## jonniesmooth

dieselss said:


> So 700.00 in a back rack...(which is pretty much for looks...pretty much) and lights isn't giving you the jitters...but 100.00 is...odd


I remember when auxiliary lights were mounted on pipe with flange bases. 
Cheap.


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## sbaer2

Hydromaster said:


> Install it yourself, if your going to be in this industry it's time you learned how to spin a wrench.
> 
> And what away to learn building your own plow rig


so i am debating doing this with my brother and his friend who has done a several plow installs. How difficult is a plow install? Those two are pretty mechanically savvy and are always working on cars. Then there is me... i can do brakes and oil change on my truck lol.

Do you think we can figure it out in a day or two?


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## Hydromaster

A few hrs…a day..
It’s not really that hard, most try to over think it.
or a day if you have a few


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## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> so i am debating doing this with my brother and his friend who has done a several plow installs. How difficult is a plow install? Those two are pretty mechanically savvy and are always working on cars. Then there is me... i can do brakes and oil change on my truck lol.
> 
> Do you think we can figure it out in a day or two?


If you have the correct wire harness and truck side mount it isn't difficult.
If you're buying a used plow, you should still be able to find the installations on the manufacturer's website.


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## Hydromaster

Have you bought a install kit from the MFG? 
this will be a bag of “new” fasteners.


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## sbaer2

Hydromaster said:


> Have you bought a install kit from the MFG?
> this will be a bag of "new" fasteners.


not sure what you mean. SO if i get the western MVP3 the install kit (mount, wiring, lights, receivers, etc) would be $1745 shipped to me.


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## Hydromaster

I don’t know what you need,

did a mount come with it?
What did it come off of?

doesn’t the plow have lights?

didn’t you get a harness with the plow?

or did you just get a plow without the rest?


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## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> not sure what you mean. SO if i get the western MVP3 the install kit (mount, wiring, lights, receivers, etc) would be $1745 shipped to me.


I would assume the bolts would be included, but check to be sure.

I'm assuming you're buying a used plow only and it does not come with the truckside mount or wire harness for your truck.


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## sbaer2

Hydromaster said:


> I don't know what you need,
> 
> did a mount come with it?
> What did it come off of?
> 
> doesn't the plow have lights?
> 
> didn't you get a harness with the plow?
> 
> or did you just get a plow without the rest?


so the plow comes with controller and lights. I would need all new truck side parts.


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## Kvston

We’ve used several options on our trucks, all a lot less than $700. I bought 4” round or square LED pods from amazon bu the case of 12 for $5/each this spring. We put them on sanders so I’m not bent when they get smashed.
For back racks, we use 128 watt 4” round combo flood/drivers from Amazon that run $60 a pair or so. Add on a decent wiring kit to your up fitter switches makes it $110-125 per truck plus the install. We have also used a receiver plug in pod that hooks to the 7 pin trailer plug. It works well, but the $180 price tag is not great and the plug must be cleaned due to constant salty water intrusion.

Buy the right plow, you won’t regret spending the $ and its a write off anyway.


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## Hydromaster

sbaer2 said:


> so the plow comes with controller and lights. I would need all new truck side parts.


Yes


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## BUFF

sbaer2 said:


> Looking at adding residential snow plowing to my landscape business this season. I have been giving myself anxiety about the decision and investment. I am only planning to commit to about 10 pretty straight forward driveways. I just want to learn the ropes for a year or two so I can move into commercial in a few years.
> 
> My dilemma. I can get a gently used western MVP3 blade installed for about $5800.
> 
> Second option is to go with a used western straight blade installed for anywhere from $3200-$5000.
> 
> which do you think is a better move for a person just getting feet wet in the industry?
> 
> I'll also need to invest about $700 into better lighting but that's with either blade.
> 
> I have enough work between my residential and helping friends with their commercial lots as sub. Just need snow and I HATE spending money. I stress over a $100 purchase let alone several thousand


A little late in the year to be thinking aboot adding plowing as a service and buying a plow, this should have been done in the summer. Do you have contracts in place or are you asumming your lawn/landscape customers will sign up?


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## EWSplow

BUFF said:


> A little late in the year to be thinking aboot adding plowing as a service and buying a plow, this should have been done in the summer. Do you have contracts in place or are you asumming your lawn/landscape customers will sign up?


If he doesn't mind the commute, I know a few people looking for service...


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## Hydromaster

BUFF said:


> A little late in the year to be thinking aboot adding plowing as a service and buying a plow, this should have been done in the summer. Do you have contracts in place or are you asumming your lawn/landscape customers will sign up?





sbaer2 said:


> 10-12 residential driveways.
> During large snow storms I'm sure I will get emergency calls but I only want a 10-12 on my route.


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## sbaer2

BUFF said:


> A little late in the year to be thinking aboot adding plowing as a service and buying a plow, this should have been done in the summer. Do you have contracts in place or are you asumming your lawn/landscape customers will sign up?


I already have 12 residentials contracted plus the work Ill do as a sub for my friends who have commercial accounts they need assistance with. I will have a plow just uncertain as to which one.


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## BUFF

Gotcha


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## cwren2472

sbaer2 said:


> the guy who was supposed to install the fisher bailed on saturday and now next earliest date would be the 20th but he wont really commit to it. I cant be planning a business around "maybe"...so now im back to square one.


Considering I just booked an appointment for January 3rd, even a _chance_ at November 20th doesn't sound half bad to me....


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## sbaer2

BUFF said:


> Gotcha


Of


cwren2472 said:


> Considering I just booked an appointment for January 3rd, even a _chance_ at November 20th doesn't sound half bad to me....


The date was not the issue. Its the lack of commitment. He said maybe that would work and just message him a few days before then... do you see my point now?


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## m_ice

sbaer2 said:


> Of
> 
> The date was not the issue. Its the lack of commitment. He said maybe that would work and just message him a few days before then... do you see my point now?


He may just be that type of person. Don't take it so personal, it is November after all.


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## jonniesmooth

sbaer2 said:


> Where did you mount ?


I bought one of those step hitch inserts. Put a pair of LED lights on it, wired it to the 7 wire trailer plug. They come on with the back up lights or can be turned on with the switched aux power in the plug.


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## sbaer2

jonniesmooth said:


> I bought one of those step hitch inserts. Put a pair of LED lights on it, wired it to the 7 wire trailer plug. They come on with the back up lights or can be turned on with the switched aux power in the plug.


Can you message me a picture and link? Sounds like something I'm interested in


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## 1olddogtwo

Where you located?


sbaer2 said:


> Of
> 
> The date was not the issue. Its the lack of commitment. He said maybe that would work and just message him a few days before then... do you see my point now?


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## sbaer2

1olddogtwo said:


> Where you located?


New York


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## jonniesmooth

sbaer2 said:


> Can you message me a picture and link? Sounds like something I'm interested in


I don't have any. I can get some tomorrow we just wired up the dakota last week.


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## Mark Oomkes

sbaer2 said:


> I stress over a $100 purchase let alone several thousand


Haven't made it through the whole thread yet, but if you stress over spending $100 do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT get into this industry.


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## sbaer2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Haven't made it through the whole thread yet, but if you stress over spending $100 do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT get into this industry.


Once i get a year or two under my belt and can actually see what the ROI then it gets easier to spend. If its not sustainable or scalable I will leave but life is all about the risk. I could just sit home all winter but my bank account will take a hit as well so I might as well risk maybe making some money.


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## Mark Oomkes

sbaer2 said:


> Once i get a year or two under my belt and can actually see what the ROI then it gets easier to spend. If its not sustainable or scalable I will leave but life is all about the risk. I could just sit home all winter but my bank account will take a hit as well so I might as well risk maybe making some money.


$100 is chump change when plowing. 1 hose costs that much. A cylinder, solenoid, cutting edge, transmission, tire, insurance deductible, the list is endless.

Maybe you were exaggerating, but I'm serious. If you think spending $100 is stressful, this is not the biz to be in.


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## sbaer2

Mark Oomkes said:


> $100 is chump change when plowing. 1 hose costs that much. A cylinder, solenoid, cutting edge, transmission, tire, insurance deductible, the list is endless.
> 
> Maybe you were exaggerating, but I'm serious. If you think spending $100 is stressful, this is not the biz to be in.


I was just saying when it comes to my business I research, research, research and get myself anxious over any purchase whether a cheap leaf blower or now a $5500 investment to get into plowing.

My last large purchase was a $4000 used commercial mower which has made me tons of money but has also needed maintenance. So i understand you have to pay to play.


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## Mark Oomkes

Your tranny goes there's close to $4k and you can't service your accounts. 

How's that for stress?


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## Hydromaster

Mark Oomkes said:


> Your tranny goes there's close to $4k and you can't service your accounts.
> 
> How's that for stress?


Been there done that.

I'd say it pays to know a guy, but you pay if you know a guy…


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## sbaer2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Your tranny goes there's close to $4k and you can't service your accounts.
> 
> How's that for stress?


That is definitely a fair point. Truck is new with only 16k on transmission and an HD.

Also most of the repair stories ive heard have been about hoses, solenoids, etc and not really much about engines or trannys. Maybe on like a 20 year old truck.


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## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> I was just saying when it comes to my business I research, research, research and get myself anxious over any purchase whether a cheap leaf blower or now a $5500 investment to get into plowing.
> 
> My last large purchase was a $4000 used commercial mower which has made me tons of money but has also needed maintenance. So i understand you have to pay to play.


I would suggest, even as a small operation you have at least $10k in cash on hand going into the snow season. 
As stated above, truck repairs are not cheap. 
If you don't have a backup truck, you would need enough to purchase one at a moments notice for use while yours is being repaired. It may not be a pretty one, but something to get you through


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## sbaer2

EWSplow said:


> I would suggest, even as a small operation you have at least $10k in cash on hand going into the snow season.
> As stated above, truck repairs are not cheap.
> If you don't have a backup truck, you would need enough to purchase one at a moments notice for use while yours is being repaired. It may not be a pretty one, but something to get you through


honestly. I am taking on 12-15 clients for residential. If i had a major repair needed for my plow and I would be out of pocket for 3-5k I would honestly just refer them to other guys I know in area that offer snow plowing. I wouldnt invest another 5k to keep moving forward. Just being honest.

Trucks new. Plow is used so hoping if I take it easy itll save the truck and plow is the major gamble here.


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## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> honestly. I am taking on 12-15 clients for residential. If i had a major repair needed for my plow and I would be out of pocket for 3-5k I would honestly just refer them to other guys I know in area that offer snow plowing. I wouldnt invest another 5k to keep moving forward. Just being honest.
> 
> Trucks new. Plow is used so hoping if I take it easy itll save the truck and plow is the major gamble here.


And if the other guys are busy, are your customers willing to wait until a day or two after a snow event to be serviced?
Every backup plan needs a backup plan.


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## sbaer2

EWSplow said:


> And if the other guys are busy, are your customers willing to wait until a day or two after a snow event to be serviced?
> Every backup plan needs a backup plan.


i mean i have 2 pretty close freinds that most likely could get to them and then a couple others I know through summer business. I agree and as soon as I can i want to get a second truck. I was toying with idea of getting a used truck with plow this year to start and then putting a mount on my "new" truck so I have foot in door plus two trucks but it seems like a lot just to get going. Plus not to mention the maintenance on both a heavily used plow truck and old plow...

I dont have all the answers to your questions and its definitely trial by fire for me with fingers crossed. That is also why ive capped my route at 15 even though ive gotten other calls. Ive also stayed away from tough driveways and poor quality drives. Again i agree I need a viable backup plan but worst case Ill have some angry clients but such is life.


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## Hydromaster

I know my friends with plow trucks, who have their own accounts just sit around all day drinking coffee waiting for me to call them, so they can come and bail me out.


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## sbaer2

Hydromaster said:


> I know my friends with plow trucks, who have their own accounts just sit around all day drinking coffee waiting for me to call them, so they can come and bail me out.


I think you are being condescending and that's cool. You always seem to have negative comments and are no different then other people who told me not to start my business three years ago. It's cool I have been around people like you my entire life.

However, of course they would get to them after their normally scheduled clients and for extreme snow fall I would start snow blowing so people can get out. Stay safe and be well.


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## EWSplow

Besides the possibility of a breakdown, accidents do happen. Someone could blow through an intersection and hot you, or you hit them. I no this because its happened to me.


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## Hydromaster

sbaer2 said:


> I think you are being condescending and that's cool. You always seem to have negative comments and are no different then other people who told me not to start my business three years ago. It's cool I have been around people like you my entire life.
> 
> However, of course they would get to them after their normally scheduled clients and for extreme snow fall I would start snow blowing so people can get out. Stay safe and be well.


No.
it's true I don't know why your friends would come and quickly bail you out, when they have their own work to
I'm not being condescending at all.
Just being a realist and posting from experience.

you have responsibilities to get your clients drives clear and you have no clear plan of doing this if you become injured/sick or your truck breaks down.

not everyone started with a fleet of trucks and loaders so check the attitude.
A lot of us started out with one truck and a snowblower.
You have guys given you opinions and ideas from real life experiences.

I started with one truck but I got a couple dozen more driveways so I could hire someone with another truck to plow with me. that way if my truck or his truck broke down we could cover it. then I brought a second truck then a third truck and hired A subcontractor with his own trucks.

PS 
in a big snow you won't be able to snow blow them out in time so they can get to work or if they have an emergency. 
And how would you get your snowblower to all your clients without a truck?


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## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> I think you are being condescending and that's cool. You always seem to have negative comments and are no different then other people who told me not to start my business three years ago. It's cool I have been around people like you my entire life.
> 
> However, of course they would get to them after their normally scheduled clients and for extreme snow fall I would start snow blowing so people can get out. Stay safe and be well.


If you have a snow blower and vehicle to transport it, you have another backup plan.


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## sbaer2

Hydromaster said:


> No.
> it's true I don't know why your friends would come and quickly bail you out, when they have their own work to
> I'm not being condescending at all.
> Just being a realist and posting from experience.
> 
> you have responsibilities to get your clients drives clear and you have no clear plan of doing this if you become injured/sick or your truck breaks down.
> 
> not everyone started with a fleet of trucks and loaders so check the attitude.
> A lot of us started out with one truck and a snowblower.
> You have guys given you opinions and ideas from real life experiences.
> 
> I started with one truck but I got a couple dozen more driveways so I could hire someone with another truck to plow with me. that way if my truck or his truck broke down we could cover it. then I brought a second truck then a third truck and hired A subcontractor with his own trucks.
> 
> PS
> in a big snow you won't be able to snow blow them out in time so they can get to work or if they have an emergency.
> And how would you get your snowblower to all your clients without a truck?


I am gambling that a new truck with only 16k wont break down for a long time. Also my brother and several friends have trucks in that event. I think there are a lot of guys who start with only one truck like you just said. Who know we might not get any snow this year so it could all be a moot point and next year I can get a second truck.

I dont believe every guy starts with two trucks, two plows, and tons of contingency plans. Also on the other hand what if everything goes smoothly and I make out like a bandit? Its all a risk as you know.


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## sbaer2

EWSplow said:


> If you have a snow blower and vehicle to transport it, you have another backup plan.


I would be miserable but its doable. Only one account of mine is too large of a driveway to actually snowblow but the rest are manageable.


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## sbaer2

so what are you saying. I should try to find a decent used truck with a plow on it and then put a mount on my new truck that fits that used plow so I have two trucks if the used truck goes down?


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## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> so what are you saying. I should try to find a decent used truck with a plow on it and then put a mount on my new truck that fits that used plow so I have two trucks if the used truck goes down?


Would you have a use for the other truck for mowing, etc? If so, that wouldn't be a bad idea. I'm always leary about buying trucks that were used for plowing, but it could be an option. Heck, if you find a decent used truck with a plow, use it and save your new truck for backup. You'd want to get the mount and wiring on your new truck so its ready to go. 
Most newer plows can be mounted and unmounted in 5 minutes.


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## EWSplow

We're just trying to help you realize that this business can be stressful and unforgiving so you aren't hanging out without a plan.


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## Mountain Bob

"I am gambling that a new truck with only 16k wont break down for a long time."
You just jinxed yourself.


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Your tranny goes there's close to $4k and you can't service your accounts.
> 
> How's that for stress?


Manual Trans you just have to keep a spare clutch assmebly on the shelf..... Unless you're really abusive and hose up syncro's and gears and if thats the case you should be driving a pedal car....


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## BUFF

sbaer2 said:


> That is definitely a fair point. Truck is new with only 16k on transmission and an HD.
> 
> Also most of the repair stories ive heard have been about hoses, solenoids, etc and not really much about engines or trannys. Maybe on like a 20 year old truck.


New stuff breaks down to and it's typically something electrical or emissions related if it's a diesel.
Buying a used plow you should think aboot having a spare motor, pump, valves, soleniods, hoses and angle cylinder.


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## sbaer2

Mountain Bob said:


> "I am gambling that a new truck with only 16k wont break down for a long time."
> You just jinxed yourself.


LOL NOOO


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## Mark Oomkes

dieselss said:


> Huh? I spent approx 100.00 on led spots. Plenty bright.


You must be Dutch...


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> Considering I just booked an appointment for January 3rd, even a _chance_ at November 20th doesn't sound half bad to me....


Just had a plow show up Monday that was ordered (and on the lot) a month and a half ago.

Again, I blame the French.

If we plow, unlikely it will be operational. But I have a backup pusher. Cuz backups are a requirement in this biz.


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## SilverPine

Speaking from experience, new trucks still definitely break down. 
Back up truck for sure.


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## BUFF

Mark Oomkes said:


> Just had a plow show up Monday that was ordered (and on the lot) a month and a half ago.
> 
> Again, I blame the French.
> 
> If we plow, unlikely it will be operational. But I have a backup pusher. Cuz backups are a requirement in this biz.


Not everyone has MP money


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## jonniesmooth

Hydromaster said:


> I know my friends with plow trucks, who have their own accounts just sit around all day drinking coffee waiting for me to call them, so they can come and bail me out.


They hang out with the people who think they can get their driveway plowed on command without any advance planning or notice.


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## cjames808

Make money. Do good job. Don’t look like a crackhead. Study. Research. The new stuff will come in time. Be on time. Do good job.


----------



## Philbilly2

sbaer2 said:


> My trucks reverse is pretty terrible and I have a crew cab. So between back rack and mounting lights on the rack.


Lights on a backrack are worthless when it is snowing. They are to close and to high to the drivers position. You will find yourself snowblind when they click on. You need them low and at the back of the truck. Spot lights not flood lights in my option are far better when it is snowing.



sbaer2 said:


> I was just saying when it comes to my business I research, research, research and get myself anxious over any purchase whether a cheap leaf blower or now a $5500 investment to get into plowing.


I remember those days... Get used to it.

Being in business costs money... just wait till you have employees that when something breaks, now it also costs you wages... on top of having to fix or buy new.... on top of figuring out how to keep your account serviced. Fun times when you blow threw thousands in an afternoon by the time the dust settles...

These guys on this forum might come off a bit standoffish... But what they are telling you is truth and if you can put yourself in their shoes of all the years of the next guy coming in and saying "I have new stuff, why would it break?" you will see they are not trying to be rude, but more trying to give you a bit of incite on what you will have ahead of you.

Best of luck.


----------



## Hydromaster

When you’re mounting your lights you either put them above or below Your line of sight. you do not want to look through the beam of light this is what causes most of the glare /reflection of light and makes it hard to see. 

I have a habit of backing in the snowbanks,
so putting a light down low on my receiver hitch just doesn’t work for me. 
I’ll back threw windows and such.


----------



## sbaer2

Philbilly2 said:


> Lights on a backrack are worthless when it is snowing. They are to close and to high to the drivers position. You will find yourself snowblind when they click on. You need them low and at the back of the truck. Spot lights not flood lights in my option are far better when it is snowing.
> 
> I remember those days... Get used to it.
> 
> Being in business costs money... just wait till you have employees that when something breaks, now it also costs you wages... on top of having to fix or buy new.... on top of figuring out how to keep your account serviced. Fun times when you blow threw thousands in an afternoon by the time the dust settles...
> 
> These guys on this forum might come off a bit standoffish... But what they are telling you is truth and if you can put yourself in their shoes of all the years of the next guy coming in and saying "I have new stuff, why would it break?" you will see they are not trying to be rude, but more trying to give you a bit of incite on what you will have ahead of you.
> 
> Best of luck.


Thank you for the tip about the back rack! Makes sense. I got reverse LEDS coming and looking at options to mount lights under bumper pretty much in line with the hitch receiver. The snow blind makes total sense!

As for the rest that also makes sense and I get it. Appreciate the feedback


----------



## jonniesmooth

Philbilly2 said:


> Lights on a backrack are worthless when it is snowing. They are to close and to high to the drivers position. You will find yourself snowblind when they click on. You need them low and at the back of the truck. Spot lights not flood lights in my option are far better when it is snowing.
> 
> I remember those days... Get used to it.
> 
> Being in business costs money... just wait till you have employees that when something breaks, now it also costs you wages... on top of having to fix or buy new.... on top of figuring out how to keep your account serviced. Fun times when you blow threw thousands in an afternoon by the time the dust settles...
> 
> These guys on this forum might come off a bit standoffish... But what they are telling you is truth and if you can put yourself in their shoes of all the years of the next guy coming in and saying "I have new stuff, why would it break?" you will see they are not trying to be rude, but more trying to give you a bit of incite on what you will have ahead of you.
> 
> Best of luck.


I remember many years ago, one of the bigger companies in town had a brand new loader, Komatsu, I think, but it doesn't matter.
Shut down on the first account, three hours later they figured out it blew a micro fuse. 
Owener said he didn't know if he should laugh or cry.


----------



## jonniesmooth

Hydromaster said:


> When you're mounting your lights you either put them above or below Your line of sight. you do not want to look through the beam of light this is what causes most of the glare /reflection of light and makes it hard to see.
> 
> I have a habit of backing in the snowbanks,
> so putting a light down low on my receiver hitch just doesn't work for me.
> I'll back threw windows and such.


Well. They work until they don't. I'm the same way.


----------



## EWSplow

Hydromaster said:


> I'll back threw windows and such.


I don't think I could afford your insurance.


----------



## Hydromaster

EWSplow said:


> I don't think I could afford your insurance.


Yeah, it's not for everyone,
it gets expensive when the snowbanks file claims.


----------



## Randall Ave

Mark Oomkes said:


> Your tranny goes there's close to $4k and you can't service your accounts.
> 
> How's that for stress?


I gotta make a few bucks toooo. A customer spent hours trying to get their plow to work today, they gave up and dropped it off at my place. Ten minutes later, all working. Invoice will be $125.00 plus parts.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

You might even spend $125 for a corroded wire...


----------



## prezek

Randall Ave said:


> I gotta make a few bucks toooo. A customer spent hours trying to get their plow to work today, they gave up and dropped it off at my place. Ten minutes later, all working. Invoice will be $125.00 plus parts.


Parts = 1 heat shrink butt connector?


----------



## prezek

Philbilly2 said:


> Lights on a backrack are worthless when it is snowing. They are to close and to high to the drivers position. You will find yourself snowblind when they click on. You need them low and at the back of the truck. Spot lights not flood lights in my option are far better when it is snowing.
> 
> I remember those days... Get used to it.
> 
> Being in business costs money... just wait till you have employees that when something breaks, now it also costs you wages... on top of having to fix or buy new.... on top of figuring out how to keep your account serviced. Fun times when you blow threw thousands in an afternoon by the time the dust settles...
> 
> These guys on this forum might come off a bit standoffish... But what they are telling you is truth and if you can put yourself in their shoes of all the years of the next guy coming in and saying "I have new stuff, why would it break?" you will see they are not trying to be rude, but more trying to give you a bit of incite on what you will have ahead of you.
> 
> Best of luck.


Standoffish. Let's go with that.


----------



## Mr.Markus

prezek said:


> Parts = 1 heat shrink butt connector?


2 ...missed the crimp on the first one


----------



## plow4beer

sbaer2 said:


> I am gambling that a new truck with only 16k wont break down for a long time. Also my brother and several friends have trucks in that event. I think there are a lot of guys who start with only one truck like you just said. Who know we might not get any snow this year so it could all be a moot point and next year I can get a second truck.
> 
> I dont believe every guy starts with two trucks, two plows, and tons of contingency plans. Also on the other hand what if everything goes smoothly and I make out like a bandit? Its all a risk as you know.


Your right, starting out, you will have to assume some level of risk….most likely a lot more in the beginning, to get started, just like some did here. But The advice your being given is sound, it's just some of it you may not be able to do right now, or that your willing to take the risk not to do. 
Yes, you need to have backup plans…sub contractors is a great way to achieve some of that, even if it means giving up a little $ early on to establish loyalty/reliance…you do things right, what($) you may have to give up early, will come back to pay dividends in many ways later on. Good & bad subcontractor relationships was a big part of my snow work experience, and I learned a lot from that, as well as developed some great working relationships 
, that even led to other work (unrelated to snow)
Now basing off what you posted, and maybe I missed something, I would've bought a brand new plow, used truck for it to go on, and put a mount on the new truck For back up.

not to be an asz, and again maybe I missed something, but you shouldve had this all figured out already. Good luck


----------



## sbaer2

Y’all talked me out of even giving it a go this year. Thank you for the feedback


----------



## plow4beer

sbaer2 said:


> I already have 12 residentials contracted plus the work Ill do as a sub for my friends who have commercial accounts they need assistance with. I will have a plow just uncertain as to which one.





sbaer2 said:


> Y'all talked me out of even giving it a go this year. Thank you for the feedback


fact check please


----------



## sbaer2

plow4beer said:


> fact check please


It's residential. Just going to write an email this weekend that plans changed. Worry about your own bud


----------



## plow4beer

sbaer2 said:


> It's residential. Just going to write an email this weekend that plans changed. Worry about your own bud


not worried…mildly entertained maybe. Besides, I thought there was decent dialogue going, you were being helped/given good advice, why you chickening out now? Don't let these guys scare you, man up & buy a plow to take care of your resi's you already have contracted.…make a little dough…learn something…you may love it and go all in next winter…you may hate it and sell the plow after winter….how you gonna know if you just quit now? Besides all that, there's some integrity/class/reputation on the line here for you now….what are you gonna email them? Some guys on the innerweb scared me out of doing it, or you Gonna lie to them?


----------



## Mountain Bob

sbaer2 said:


> Y'all talked me out of even giving it a go this year. Thank you for the feedback


I think you have heard some of the worse scenarios,lol. Contractors are like a boss that never gives you training or the complete picture, to them it is less competition,and job security.
An option for you, if you can bear the possible loss by end of winter, as it seems you are not nor have been a ",plow guy", buy a plow, or a plow truck setup. Perhaps not newer,or the nicest. Contact local plow businesses,and only work for them, non contract, on call fill in basis.Theri trucks/equipment breaks,employees don't show up,etc. This will tell you if you really want to get into it full time,next winter, and give you experience "running into things". Just a thought.


----------



## sbaer2

Mountain Bob said:


> I think you have heard some of the worse scenarios,lol. Contractors are like a boss that never gives you training or the complete picture, to them it is less competition,and job security.
> An option for you, if you can bear the possible loss by end of winter, as it seems you are not nor have been a ",plow guy", buy a plow, or a plow truck setup. Perhaps not newer,or the nicest. Contact local plow businesses,and only work for them, non contract, on call fill in basis.Theri trucks/equipment breaks,employees don't show up,etc. This will tell you if you really want to get into it full time,next winter, and give you experience "running into things". Just a thought.


I agree it's always the worst scenarios that stick but they carry validity.

maybe that's an option to put plow on my truck and sub for guys in that scenario to see how it goes.
I was being honest I appreciate the feedback and don't like people who sugarcoat.


----------



## EWSplow

If you decide to not keep your clients, hopefully you can recommend someone to them. You don't want to lose them as a summer client.
Maybe you can make some sort of an agreement with whomever takes the snow accounts.

Plowsite might be a good networking tool for you. There may be other members in your area.


----------



## prezek

I think a lot of guys give advice on how they wish they had started out or what would have been ideal. Obviously very few of us started out with top of the line equipment or back ups to our back ups. Most entrepreneurs are risk takers and rolled the dice and figured it out as they went…my first plow truck was a 96 dodge 2500. First storm the yoke on my front drive shaft broke before I made it to my first property…did a lot of shoveling that storm and vowed to never be put in that situation again. Didn’t dare venture down a driveway with a hill. Good luck with whatever you decide.


----------



## sbaer2

prezek said:


> I think a lot of guys give advice on how they wish they had started out or what would have been ideal. Obviously very few of us started out with top of the line equipment or back ups to our back ups. Most entrepreneurs are risk takers and rolled the dice and figured it out as they went…my first plow truck was a 96 dodge 2500. First storm the yoke on my front drive shaft broke before I made it to my first property…did a lot of shoveling that storm and vowed to never be put in that situation again. Didn't dare venture down a driveway with a hill. Good luck with whatever you decide.


I agree. I've already taken a lot of risk I'm not sure why this one freaks me out more haha


----------



## plow4beer

prezek said:


> I think a lot of guys give advice on how they wish they had started out or what would have been ideal.


definitely some truth to that….but the problem is they didn't, and probably couldn't have (with some aspects), even with some of the knowledge they have now. You have to start somewhere, you have to build credit/savings/buying power/relationships….these things take work & time…some can achieve it faster than others, some work harder than others….regardless, it comes down to risk, and the fact you have to take "certain risks" (starting out) that successful established businesses aren't taking anymore, but most likely did at one time. Those established businesses are dealing with plenty of risk still, just different.

OP, the fact your here asking the questions you are, not getting butt hurt over some of these clowns smart mouths, shows something of your character….I say go get some..find out for yourself if it's something you really want to get involved in, more than what you've already committed to. What your proposing to do, really isn't that big of a deal….I think some of these posts may be causing you to overthink some things, but that doesn't mean to disregard the info, or think it's not useful... Take/do what you can from it, and Do your best.


----------



## Philbilly2

prezek said:


> I think a lot of guys give advice on how they wish they had started out or what would have been ideal. Obviously very few of us started out with top of the line equipment or back ups to our back ups. Most entrepreneurs are risk takers and rolled the dice and figured it out as they went…my first plow truck was a 96 dodge 2500. First storm the yoke on my front drive shaft broke before I made it to my first property…did a lot of shoveling that storm and vowed to never be put in that situation again. Didn't dare venture down a driveway with a hill. Good luck with whatever you decide.


One of the first years I was on my own I was pulling into the walmart to spread a load of salt and one of my duals passed me. 

Called one of my guys, told him to drop my plow of my truck and bring the skid loader trailer to me.

Unhooked the plow off the front of the dump, put it on my truck, limped the dump truck up onto the skidloader trailer, chained it down and my guy rode in the dump on the trailer to run the salter, while I drove around the lot so we could get the lot salted... 

All I can say is thank god there were no camera fones back then or I would be on one of those Fail videos show for sure.


----------



## GMC Driver

Philbilly2 said:


> Unhooked the plow off the front of the dump, put it on my truck, limped the dump truck up onto the skidloader trailer, chained it down and my guy rode in the dump on the trailer to run the salter, while I drove around the lot so we could get the lot salted...


That brings back memories.

Started off 21 winters ago with a used 12V Herd seeder mounted in the reciever, it would kick off once in a while from overload protection. Or just bad wiring/motor brushes, I don't recall. But it was $50 to buy it and that's all I could afford at the time. Remember we were trying to get a site done, and had to drag my newlywed bride out with me. She would drive the truck as I ran behind it kicking the spinner to keep it going. Wasn't meant for course materials like salt. Those were the days.


----------



## sbaer2

These stories are awesome. Definitely love the humble beginnings. Ive settled on a SS fisher XV2. Getting it installed this week. Hoping it treats me well. I am concerned with reliability versus the straight blade but everyone says just go with the V so thats what i did. 

Now i am on search for a walk behind spreader. I was looking at chapin but i guess they have horrible reviews. Lesco broadcast salt spreader has good reviews but is around $500... i have a couple driveways that are 800ft that will suck walking but the rest are fairly small and can be salted quicker. 

any suggestions on a walk behind salt spreader?


----------



## BUFF

sbaer2 said:


> These stories are awesome. Definitely love the humble beginnings. Ive settled on a SS fisher XV2. Getting it installed this week. Hoping it treats me well. I am concerned with reliability versus the straight blade but everyone says just go with the V so thats what i did.
> 
> Now i am on search for a walk behind spreader. I was looking at chapin but i guess they have horrible reviews. Lesco broadcast salt spreader has good reviews but is around $500... i have a couple driveways that are 800ft that will suck walking but the rest are fairly small and can be salted quicker.
> 
> any suggestions on a walk behind salt spreader?


For average resi's with a 2-3stall garage there's no need for a walk behind spreader. You spend more time unloading/load than you will using it. You'll also need to make sure the cover is sucure on the spreader so snow doesn't get in the spreader and casue feed issue. 
I used kitty litter pails with a flip lid that snaps in place like the one below and spread by hand. It was faster in the long run, cheap, takes up very little room in the bed of a pickup and you don't have to clean it when your done.


----------



## Philbilly2

BUFF said:


> For average resi's with a 2-3stall garage there's no need for a walk behind spreader. You spend more time unloading/load than you will using it. You'll also need to make sure the cover is sucure on the spreader so snow doesn't get in the spreader and casue feed issue.
> I used kitty litter pails with a flip lid that snaps in place like the one below and spread by hand. It was faster in the long run, cheap, takes up very little room in the bed of a pickup and you don't have to clean it when your done.
> View attachment 223467


Ah the old "feeding chickens" technique... rarely lets you down...


----------



## jonniesmooth

GMC Driver said:


> That brings back memories.
> 
> Started off 21 winters ago with a used 12V Herd seeder mounted in the reciever, it would kick off once in a while from overload protection. Or just bad wiring/motor brushes, I don't recall. But it was $50 to buy it and that's all I could afford at the time. Remember we were trying to get a site done, and had to drag my newlywed bride out with me. She would drive the truck as I ran behind it kicking the spinner to keep it going. Wasn't meant for course materials like salt. Those were the days.
> 
> View attachment 223466


Done that too my first spreader only held 75#, my wife would drive and I would ride in the back and keep filling it as we went.


----------



## SHAWZER

Just make sure your pants are on the outside of your boots .....


----------



## EWSplow

BUFF said:


> For average resi's with a 2-3stall garage there's no need for a walk behind spreader. You spend more time unloading/load than you will using it. You'll also need to make sure the cover is sucure on the spreader so snow doesn't get in the spreader and casue feed issue.
> I used kitty litter pails with a flip lid that snaps in place like the one below and spread by hand. It was faster in the long run, cheap, takes up very little room in the bed of a pickup and you don't have to clean it when your done.
> View attachment 223467


And wear rubber gloves. The salt will suck all the moisture from your hands. 
I've even hit small lots this way. 
I've seen guys with a 5 gallon bucket with a strap on their shoulder do a block of city walks 5' or 6' wide.
IMO using a broadcast spreader 1/2 goes on the lawn. You'll have some repairs to do in spring.


----------



## Philbilly2

EWSplow said:


> IMO using a broadcast spreader 1/2 goes on the lawn. You'll have some repairs to do in spring.


In my line of work we call that "Job Security" :laugh:


----------



## Hydromaster

sbaer2 said:


> These stories are awesome. Definitely love the humble beginnings. Ive settled on a SS fisher XV2. Getting it installed this week. Hoping it treats me well. I am concerned with reliability versus the straight blade but everyone says just go with the V so thats what i did.
> 
> Now i am on search for a walk behind spreader. I was looking at chapin but i guess they have horrible reviews. Lesco broadcast salt spreader has good reviews but is around $500... i have a couple driveways that are 800ft that will suck walking but the rest are fairly small and can be salted quicker.
> 
> any suggestions on a walk behind salt spreader?


I don't know what you're worried about with a V blow compared to the straight blade the only extra part on the vee is the center hinge otherwise the st8 plow and Ve Plows have the same parts


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> I don't know what you're worried about with a V blow compared to the straight blade the only extra part on the vee is the center hinge otherwise the st8 plow and Ve Plows have the same parts


my vee has quite a few more valves and coils than my straight blade


----------



## sbaer2

BUFF said:


> For average resi's with a 2-3stall garage there's no need for a walk behind spreader. You spend more time unloading/load than you will using it. You'll also need to make sure the cover is sucure on the spreader so snow doesn't get in the spreader and casue feed issue.
> I used kitty litter pails with a flip lid that snaps in place like the one below and spread by hand. It was faster in the long run, cheap, takes up very little room in the bed of a pickup and you don't have to clean it when your done.





Hydromaster said:


> I don't know what you're worried about with a V blow compared to the straight blade the only extra part on the vee is the center hinge otherwise the st8 plow and Ve Plows have the same parts


someone told me the cutting edges are more expensive but based on my research they may be a $150 more for cutting edges on a v plow? Yeah the maintenance appears to be similar aside from if you seriously damage the center hinge but not sure how common that is unless you collide with a light pole or are very neglectful?


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> my vee has quite a few more valves and coils than my straight blade


Not mine same number of valves and coils I got one ram on the left do you control the angle thing I got one ram on the right to control the angle thing just like a straight plow. It also has a lift ram just like a straight plow. Trip hinges, it only has one….


----------



## Hydromaster

sbaer2 said:


> someone told me the cutting edges are more expensive but based on my research they may be a $150 more for cutting edges on a v plow? Yeah the maintenance appears to be similar aside from if you seriously damage the center hinge but not sure how common that is unless you collide with a light pole or are very neglectful?


Expensive parts have nothing to do with them breaking down.
you could break the corner off your straight edge also.


----------



## Ajlawn1

sbaer2 said:


> to be similar aside from if you seriously damage the center hinge but not sure how common that is unless you collide with a light pole or are very neglectful?


One of my guys hit something so hard the air bag went off, I've picked up a manhole lid in the trip edge, also have hit plenty to send your forehead into the dash, but have never tweaked a center pin or tore a wing away. Not sure how guys do it...


----------



## sbaer2

Hydromaster said:


> Expensive parts have nothing to do with them breaking down.
> you could break the corner off your straight edge also.


so what do you mean? The operator has a big part in it?


----------



## Hydromaster

Yes, Along with the condition of the pavement curbs and the environment he plows in.


----------



## SHAWZER

Heard some guys say " hold my beer and watch this "


----------



## Mark Oomkes

sbaer2 said:


> someone told me the cutting edges are more expensive but based on my research they may be a $150 more for cutting edges on a v plow? Yeah the maintenance appears to be similar aside from if you seriously damage the center hinge but not sure how common that is unless you collide with a light pole or are very neglectful?


The chances of you wearing down a cutting edge doing a dozen driveways is pretty slim...maybe in 5 years.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

SHAWZER said:


> Heard some guys say " hold my beer and watch this "


No way...I'm holding my beer...I don't trust you fellas.


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> Not mine same number of valves and coils I got one ram on the left do you control the angle thing I got one ram on the right to control the angle thing just like a straight plow. It also has a lift ram just like a straight plow. Trip hinges, it only has one….


He purchased a modern plow


----------



## Ajlawn1

Philbilly2 said:


> He purchased a modern plow


Post '79...?


----------



## EWSplow

Ajlawn1 said:


> One of my guys hit something so hard the air bag went off, I've picked up a manhole lid in the trip edge, also have hit plenty to send your forehead into the dash, but have never tweaked a center pin or tore a wing away. Not sure how guys do it...


I've bent push frames, but never center pins. Most of the time you can tweak the push frame back into place.

As far as site conditions, sometimes you will find a 2" difference in concrete slabs. These can send you into the windshield if you hit them wrong at higher speeds.

I've pushed a few manhole covers off.

I've also pushed chunks of asphalt into the pile. And, a few parking blocks

Another obstacle can be a curb box sticking up.

Its all part of the game. Look your sites over and hopefully, the first snowfall won't be a big one so you get a feel for what's there.


----------



## Ajlawn1

EWSplow said:


> I've bent push frames, but never center pins. Most of the time you can tweak the push frame back into place.
> 
> As far as site conditions, sometimes you will find a 2" difference in concrete slabs. These can send you into the windshield if you hit them wrong at higher speeds.
> 
> I've pushed a few manhole covers off.
> 
> I've also pushed chunks of asphalt into the pile. And, a few parking blocks
> 
> Another obstacle can be a curb box sticking up.
> 
> Its all part of the game. Look your sites over and hopefully, the first snowfall won't be a big one so you get a feel for what's there.


Yeah but we're you loaded with 2.5/3 ton of ballast salt... Makes the hits sound alot different...lmao


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> He purchased a modern plow


I lied anyways, my RT two has two lift rams and my str8 only has one.
a why don't you tell me what extra rams and hinges your plow has?

it doesn't really matter if your plow is 60 years old or a year old.
I don't understand your trying to Humiliate me because I don't have a 2021 snowplow?
What difference does it make?

I just went out looked at my Myers, Hiniker & my boss and I still can't see what you're talking about?

Ps buzzard plows don't count.


----------



## sbaer2

Mark Oomkes said:


> The chances of you wearing down a cutting edge doing a dozen driveways is pretty slim...maybe in 5 years.


agree but are they actually $600 for new cutting edges on a v plow?


----------



## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> agree but are they actually $600 for new cutting edges on a v plow?


That sounds about right.


----------



## sbaer2

EWSplow said:


> That sounds about right.


versus how much for a straight 8.5 blade?


----------



## Mountain Bob

https://www.millsupply.com/snow-plow-parts/fisher/cutting-edges-fisher/


----------



## Mark Oomkes

sbaer2 said:


> agree but are they actually $600 for new cutting edges on a v plow?


No idea, other than my 10' muni plows I haven't had a straight blade in over a decade.


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> I lied anyways, my RT two has two lift rams and my str8 only has one.
> a why don't you tell me what extra rams and hinges your plow has?
> 
> it doesn't really matter if your plow is 60 years old or a year old.
> I don't understand your trying to Humiliate me because I don't have a 2021 snowplow?
> What difference does it make?


Good lord...

I'm not trying to humiliate you. I am telling you that you are wrong and you are giving the OP wrong info because you don't know what you are talking about.

Straight blade - 3 valves/ 3 coils - very simple









Moden era V blade (like the XV2 the OP is talking about)










As you can see there are quite a few more coils and valves on a modern day vee plow... what the OP is talking about... just like I said.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

BTW, as my dad would say, you're majoring in minors. 

The productivity of a V over a straight blade far outweighs the additional cost of cutting edges.

Another way to look at...you're looking at the trees instead of the forest.


----------



## BUFF

Oh Boy......


----------



## sbaer2

Mark Oomkes said:


> BTW, as my dad would say, you're majoring in minors.
> 
> The productivity of a V over a straight blade far outweighs the additional cost of cutting edges.
> 
> Another way to look at...you're looking at the trees instead of the forest.


makes sense!


----------



## Hydromaster

Philbilly2 said:


> Good lord...
> 
> I'm not trying to humiliate you. I am telling you that you are wrong and you are giving the OP wrong info because you don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> Straight blade - 3 valves/ 3 coils - very simple
> View attachment 223480
> 
> 
> Moden era V blade (like the XV2 the OP is talking about)
> 
> View attachment 223481
> 
> 
> As you can see there are quite a few more coils and valves on a modern day vee plow... what the OP is talking about... just like I said.


Good you have a pivot hinge same as a center hinge ,oh good lord ,you have a trip hinge on a straight so does the V plow (unless it's a trip badge) oh good lord you have one ram on the left side and one ram on the other side good lord you probably only have one lifting ram.

My apologies, woke millennials need another ram / contraption to try and pull the plow onto or lift it up to hook it onto the truck.

and I don't think the oP was talking about the moving parts of the valve anyway

And even in 2021 you can get a new plow With fewer valves. .

PS I don't see what your Lord has to do with it


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> Good you have a pivot hinge same as a center hinge ,oh good lord ,you have a trip hinge on a straight so does the V plow (unless it's a trip badge) oh good lord you have one ram on the left side and one ram on the other side good lord you probably only have one lifting ram.
> 
> My apologies, woke millennials need another ram / contraption to try and pull the plow onto or lift it up to hook it onto the truck.
> 
> and I don't think the old P was talking about the moving parts of the valve anyway
> 
> And even in 2021 you can get a new plow With fewer valves. .
> 
> PS I don't see what your Lord has to do with it


----------



## Philbilly2

Hydromaster said:


> My apologies, woke millennials need another ram / contraption to try and pull the plow onto or lift it up to hook it onto the truck.


Just for the record... the plow he is referencing does not have that :laugh: :waving:


----------



## Ajlawn1

BUFF said:


> Oh Boy......


Which part, the trees and the forest or the straight vs. V valve dilemma...?


----------



## prezek

If you are looking to save money go the 5 gallon bucket route like mentioned earlier. No wasted product on the grass or road…keeps it dry…we don’t plow large acreage lots, but a good number of small commercial along with driveways…we don’t have the number of events a lot of you guys do, but I haven’t worn out a cutting edge in a few years…


----------



## jonniesmooth

EWSplow said:


> And wear rubber gloves. The salt will suck all the moisture from your hands.
> I've even hit small lots this way.
> I've seen guys with a 5 gallon bucket with a strap on their shoulder do a block of city walks 5' or 6' wide.
> IMO using a broadcast spreader 1/2 goes on the lawn. You'll have some repairs to do in spring.


I use big empty laundry soap containers. Glue the cap on,turn it over,cut out the bottom. Holds a good amount, some of the bigger ones can get close to 20# in them.
Ditto,on the rubber gloves.


----------



## jonniesmooth

EWSplow said:


> I've bent push frames, but never center pins. Most of the time you can tweak the push frame back into place.
> 
> As far as site conditions, sometimes you will find a 2" difference in concrete slabs. These can send you into the windshield if you hit them wrong at higher speeds.
> 
> I've pushed a few manhole covers off.
> 
> I've also pushed chunks of asphalt into the pile. And, a few parking blocks
> 
> Another obstacle can be a curb box sticking up.
> 
> Its all part of the game. Look your sites over and hopefully, the first snowfall won't be a big one so you get a feel for what's there.


I moved a parking block and put the rebar through my tire at 3 am. 
Called my motorcycle mechanic friend. Who goes to his day job at 6am. So I just got him up a little early.
He came and got me,drove me to my shop,so I could grab another truck to keep working. He went back took off the wheel, went back to my shop yo get the spare from my Yukon, brought them both to his shop and swapped the tires, (wheels weren't the same) went back,put the wheel back on, and made it to work on time.
My wife met me at the shop and gave me a ride back to the truck.


----------



## Mr.Markus

jonniesmooth said:


> I use big empty laundry soap containers. Glue the cap on,turn it over,cut out the bottom. Holds a good amount, some of the bigger ones can get close to 20# in them.
> Ditto,on the rubber gloves.


And you wife thinks you smell lovely after work...
If you drill th bottom of a 5 gallon pail full of holes and add a piece of old ratchet strap as a handle you can walk down the walkway jiggling the pail to salt.
Another advantage is that the pail doesn't fill with melt water between jobs...


----------



## EWSplow

jonniesmooth said:


> I use big empty laundry soap containers. Glue the cap on,turn it over,cut out the bottom. Holds a good amount, some of the bigger ones can get close to 20# in them.
> Ditto,on the rubber gloves.


I've dug through several recycle bins and done just that when I needed something on the fly.


----------



## EWSplow

jonniesmooth said:


> I moved a parking block and put the rebar through my tire at 3 am.
> Called my motorcycle mechanic friend. Who goes to his day job at 6am. So I just got him up a little early.
> He came and got me,drove me to my shop,so I could grab another truck to keep working. He went back took off the wheel, went back to my shop yo get the spare from my Yukon, brought them both to his shop and swapped the tires, (wheels weren't the same) went back,put the wheel back on, and made it to work on time.
> My wife met me at the shop and gave me a ride back to the truck.


Back when I plowed foreclosures, a spike sticking out of a wood retaining wall sliced a sidewall. It was a Sunday & couldn't get the stoopid spare under the bed down. I was in a less than desirable neighborhood. A neighbor across the street came and asked if I needed a floor jack, or anything. Nope, I need a spare. He had his teenage niece give me and my tire a ride to a tire shop that only closed 1 day out of the year, Christmas. They had a used tire the right size. 
He told me he was trying to teach her about karma. I gave her $10 and she was happy. 
Just another reason I try to help people when I can.


----------



## plow4beer

Philbilly2 said:


> All I can say is thank god there were no camera fones back then or I would be on one of those Fail videos show for sure.


our first year in biz, we may or may not have had a couple guys in the back of a broken down vbox once, slinging shovel fulls of salt like confetti….


----------



## Kvston

sbaer2 said:


> These stories are awesome. Definitely love the humble beginnings. Ive settled on a SS fisher XV2. Getting it installed this week. Hoping it treats me well. I am concerned with reliability versus the straight blade but everyone says just go with the V so thats what i did.
> 
> Now i am on search for a walk behind spreader. I was looking at chapin but i guess they have horrible reviews. Lesco broadcast salt spreader has good reviews but is around $500... i have a couple driveways that are 800ft that will suck walking but the rest are fairly small and can be salted quicker.
> 
> any suggestions on a walk behind salt spreader?


5 gallon pail. Walk behinds suck.


----------



## jonniesmooth

plow4beer said:


> our first year in biz, we may or may not have had a couple guys in the back of a broken down vbox once, slinging shovel fulls of salt like confetti….


I remember when I was a kid, the city would drive a pick up down the sidewalks, (downtown 5' walks) with 2 workers sitting on the endgame throwing salt from 5 gallon pails.


----------



## sbaer2

so if myself and one of my guys are walking in peoples driveways slinging rock salt I shouldn't feel embarrassed?


----------



## Hydromaster

Just feeding the chickens…

I’ll make a scoop out of a windshield washer jug and sprinkle or fling it out of there.


----------



## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> so if myself and one of my guys are walking in peoples driveways slinging rock salt I shouldn't feel embarrassed?


No need to feel embarrassed. This method is used regularly by some of the larger contractors.


----------



## Ajlawn1

sbaer2 said:


> so if myself and one of my guys are walking in peoples driveways slinging rock salt I shouldn't feel embarrassed?


They sell nice plastic fead scoops at your local, Rural King, Fam and Barn, TSC, Home and Harvest that work great to scoop out and carry... Little less hillbilly...


----------



## Mark Oomkes

sbaer2 said:


> so if myself and one of my guys are walking in peoples driveways slinging rock salt I shouldn't feel embarrassed?


Honestly, I don't understand it, but I've seen competitors doing this when they have spreaders available. In box trucks.


----------



## Hydromaster

Ajlawn1 said:


> They sell nice plastic fead scoops at your local, Rural King, Fam and Barn, TSC, Home and Harvest that work great to scoop out and carry... Little less hillbilly...


Those added costs cut into the bottom line.

Ps they sell broad cast spreaders too..


----------



## Mark Oomkes

These are pretty nice too.

https://www.amleo.com/snowex-salt-scoop/p/SP05
We don't put them in our salt boxes, but our sidewalk crews have them.


----------



## EWSplow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Honestly, I don't understand it, but I've seen competitors doing this when they have spreaders available. In box trucks.


I'm guessing the employees don't want to mess around with unloading and loading a push spreader.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Hydromaster said:


> Those added costs cut into the bottom line


Buy a miner then to offset...


----------



## EWSplow

Ajlawn1 said:


> They sell nice plastic fead scoops at your local, Rural King, Fam and Barn, TSC, Home and Harvest that work great to scoop out and carry... Little less hillbilly...


Says the guy who uses zipties rather than hose clamps...


----------



## EWSplow

Mark Oomkes said:


> These are pretty nice too.
> 
> https://www.amleo.com/snowex-salt-scoop/p/SP05
> We don't put them in our salt boxes, but our sidewalk crews have them.


Those are for guys with MP money.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

EWSplow said:


> Those are for guys with MP money.


You beat AJ to it...cuz I knew someone would say it.

More capacity, they don't rust and don't bend. They also disappear if we leave them in salt bins.


----------



## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> These are pretty nice too.
> 
> https://www.amleo.com/snowex-salt-scoop/p/SP05
> We don't put them in our salt boxes, but our sidewalk crews have them.


Those are MP spensive... I think these awhile back were 5 bucks...

Edit: MP late...


----------



## sbaer2

someone care to elaborate on what "mp" means?


----------



## Ajlawn1

sbaer2 said:


> someone care to elaborate on what "mp" means?


There's only one here who can, us peasants have no clue what MP is like..


----------



## BUFF

sbaer2 said:


> someone care to elaborate on what "mp" means?


Reference to Metal Pless plows for tractors/loaders, there are very well built, scrape very well and costly. Those that can justify/afford to buy them seem to have deep pockets, hence MP money.


----------



## Hydromaster

Mark Oomkes said:


> These are pretty nice too.
> 
> https://www.amleo.com/snowex-salt-scoop/p/SP05
> We don't put them in our salt boxes, but our sidewalk crews have them.


That's MP money.
https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail...mart PLA (IBSE0001)&utm_term=4584619895944495
Aarg to slow, must be that decaf.?


----------



## jonniesmooth

Mark Oomkes said:


> Honestly, I don't understand it, but I've seen competitors doing this when they have spreaders available. In box trucks.


Use it as a selling point to the customer. 
" I don't indiscriminately blast salt from my truck. I apply by hand to areas that I can see need it "
Or something like that. 
You know, ethically. 
I'm not saying using a speader is bad.
I use mine for the first run. Then when I re check I am more likely to do by hand.
Lots of variables of course.


----------



## sbaer2

jonniesmooth said:


> Use it as a selling point to the customer.
> " I don't indiscriminately blast salt from my truck. I apply by hand to areas that I can see need it "
> Or something like that.
> You know, ethically.
> I'm not saying using a speader is bad.
> I use mine for the first run. Then when I re check I am more likely to do by hand.
> Lots of variables of course.


"ma'am & sir this is the finest rock salt youll find in the northeast. We craft them from little seedlings to mature salts. Then we gently apply them to your beautiful gravel driveway with hand precision" something like that?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ajlawn1 said:


> There's only one here who can, us peasants have no clue what MP is like..


If I'm going bankrupt doing this, might as well do it bigly.


----------



## cwren2472

sbaer2 said:


> "ma'am & sir this is the finest rock salt youll find in the northeast. We craft them from little seedlings to mature salts. Then we gently apply them to your beautiful gravel driveway with hand precision" something like that?


And just like that, you went from "how much to invest" to "advanced marketing strategies"


----------



## Hydromaster

sbaer2 said:


> "ma'am & sir this is the finest rock salt youll find in the northeast. We craft them from little seedlings to mature salts. Then we gently apply them to your beautiful gravel driveway with hand precision" something like that?


Pisst
Do not apply salt to a gravel drive, it just makes soft spots and a lot of mud.

Salt doesn't work from the top down it works from the bottom up. 
When you spread the salt it burns a hole through the snow or ice and then rests on the surface below, Dissolving, it is the brine that spreads out that melts the surrounding snow & ice

It becomes fairly ineffective and all the salt and brine just dissolves/flows downward into the gravel.


----------



## BUFF

sbaer2 said:


> "ma'am & sir this is the finest rock salt youll find in the northeast. We craft them from little seedlings to mature salts. Then we gently apply them to your beautiful gravel driveway with hand precision" something like that?


You don't want to spread salt on gravel/dirt/roadbase driveways. The ground won't freeze and you'll dig in to the ground with your plow which means a lot of cleanup and gravel raking in the spring.


----------



## Ajlawn1

BUFF said:


> You don't want to spread salt on gravel/dirt/roadbase driveways. The ground won't freeze and you'll dig in to the ground with your plow which means a lot of cleanup and gravel raking in the spring.


Phile recommendation...


----------



## BUFF

Ajlawn1 said:


> Phile recommendation...


Only by a minute......


----------



## EWSplow

BUFF said:


> Only by a minute......


That's a minute you'll never get back


----------



## BUFF

EWSplow said:


> That's a minute you'll never get back


Bug/Windsheild syndrome.....


----------



## jonniesmooth

sbaer2 said:


> "ma'am & sir this is the finest rock salt youll find in the northeast. We craft them from little seedlings to mature salts. Then we gently apply them to your beautiful gravel driveway with hand precision" something like that?


Something like that. I don't salt gravel,that gets sand if we have a bad enough ice storm.


----------



## Mr.Markus

jonniesmooth said:


> I use big empty laundry soap containers. Glue the cap on,turn it over,cut out the bottom. Holds a good amount, some of the bigger ones can get close to 20# in them.
> Ditto,on the rubber gloves.





Ajlawn1 said:


> Phile recommendation...


No it was @BUFF ...


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc.

EWSplow said:


> Those are for guys with MP money.


Thought that was going to be a link to a stainless steel scoop


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc.

BUFF said:


> Bug/Windsheild syndrome.....
> View attachment 223526


You guys still have pterodactyls flying around oooooot west?


----------



## BUFF

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> You guys still have pterodactyls flying around oooooot west?


Only when the weather comes in from the Gulf of Mextichoe


----------



## Mr.Markus

Ajlawn1 said:


> Those are MP spensive... I think these awhile back were 5 bucks...
> 
> Edit: MP late...
> 
> View attachment 223518


Feed mills or farm supply usually the best deals on scoops. Usually for a couple bucks.


----------



## sbaer2

Best place to get plow markers for the actual plow blade? Local dealership or what ?


----------



## Mountain Bob

sbaer2 said:


> Best place to get plow markers for the actual plow blade? Local dealership or what ?


Internet


----------



## sbaer2

Mountain Bob said:


> Internet


And finally beat place to get shoes for the xv2?


----------



## BUFF

sbaer2 said:


> And finally beat place to get shoes for the xv2?


They don't work and don't waste your money.


----------



## sbaer2

BUFF said:


> They don't work and don't waste your money.


Goos to know. I have a few longer gravel / crusher run driveways I thought I would need them for but I'm fine with saving some cash


----------



## jonniesmooth

sbaer2 said:


> Goos to know. I have a few longer gravel / crusher run driveways I thought I would need them for but I'm fine with saving some cash


Back drag them as much as possible when the ground is soft early and late season, till it freezes and you get a base packed down.


----------



## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> Goos to know. I have a few longer gravel / crusher run driveways I thought I would need them for but I'm fine with saving some cash


You could try this on gravel drives.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2044509975834485/


----------



## sbaer2

No turning back now.
I know this Is not ideal but going to learn on fly. Any tips to follow? Most of my driveways are small and maybe 2-3 are longer winding ones. Total of 7 under contract and a few others when it’s over 6 inches.

tips to care for equipment? Truck? What to keep in truck ? I thought I would be relieved but I have been anxious and nervous since they told me it was done yesterday.


----------



## cwren2472

sbaer2 said:


> No turning back now.


Oh, you bought that one? Are you sure that was the right decision?


----------



## Hydromaster

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/what-to-carry-when-plowing.25764/


----------



## sbaer2

cwren2472 said:


> Oh, you bought that one? Are you sure that was the right decision?


Honestly no lol


----------



## dieselss

So much for worrying about 100.00 now huh.


----------



## Kinport

nice set up, congrats on your purchase!

I started my first year with a handful of commercial accounts, a tired old Ford that was around for the Reagan presidency, and a wallered out Meyer 7.5 straight blade that had watery fluid that froze up when it got real cold. I had never plowed snow with a truck before the first storm.

your in much better shape. You’ll be fine.

I just have one “tip” and that’s to check out the literature available through Fishers website. They have troubleshooting guides that will help you figure out most any issues you may encounter. Also this sight has some excellent Fisher mechanics who can either solve your problem or get you pointed in the right direction. Truthfully though, it’s unlikely that your new plow will have issues that aren’t self inflicted.

Go slow at first, it’s not a bulldozer. You’ll get faster and develop a “feel” for it. Good luck!!


----------



## sbaer2

Kinport said:


> nice set up, congrats on your purchase!
> 
> I started my first year with a handful of commercial accounts, a tired old Ford that was around for the Reagan presidency, and a wallered out Meyer 7.5 straight blade that had watery fluid that froze up when it got real cold. I had never plowed snow with a truck before the first storm.
> 
> your in much better shape. You'll be fine.
> 
> I just have one "tip" and that's to check out the literature available through Fishers website. They have troubleshooting guides that will help you figure out most any issues you may encounter. Also this sight has some excellent Fisher mechanics who can either solve your problem or get you pointed in the right direction. Truthfully though, it's unlikely that your new plow will have issues that aren't self inflicted.
> 
> Go slow at first, it's not a bulldozer. You'll get faster and develop a "feel" for it. Good luck!!


Well it's a used plow and they already had me wait 3 hrs when I was picking it up because it stopped working. They said they replaced the wiring harness …

sooo already off to a rocky start but got it home and it's still working properly. Not sure if I should take it to my local fisher delete for a once over if they can even get me in.

also anyone suggest a level kit or run it as it? Plow definitely drags on steep inclines getting into / out of driveways.


----------



## sbaer2

Also I realize this is a pretty decent set up for a novice but I already had the truck. The Plow is USED was $5500 installed. I was getting quotes for used straight blades of $5000 so it made sense to just go this route for a few hundred more.

I also assume this is just like being deployed. Assume you already dead (will break down) and if you don’t break down that’s a win. Fingers crossed for a safe and productive season.


----------



## jonniesmooth

Kinport said:


> nice set up, congrats on your purchase!
> 
> I started my first year with a handful of commercial accounts, a tired old Ford that was around for the Reagan presidency, and a wallered out Meyer 7.5 straight blade that had watery fluid that froze up when it got real cold. I had never plowed snow with a truck before the first storm.
> 
> your in much better shape. You'll be fine.
> 
> I just have one "tip" and that's to check out the literature available through Fishers website. They have troubleshooting guides that will help you figure out most any issues you may encounter. Also this sight has some excellent Fisher mechanics who can either solve your problem or get you pointed in the right direction. Truthfully though, it's unlikely that your new plow will have issues that aren't self inflicted.
> 
> Go slow at first, it's not a bulldozer. You'll get faster and develop a "feel" for it. Good luck!!


"Slow is smooth,smooth is fast"


----------



## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> Also I realize this is a pretty decent set up for a novice but I already had the truck. The Plow is USED was $5500 installed. I was getting quotes for used straight blades of $5000 so it made sense to just go this route for a few hundred more.
> 
> I also assume this is just like being deployed. Assume you already dead (will break down) and if you don't break down that's a win. Fingers crossed for a safe and productive season.





sbaer2 said:


> Well it's a used plow and they already had me wait 3 hrs when I was picking it up because it stopped working. They said they replaced the wiring harness …
> 
> sooo already off to a rocky start but got it home and it's still working properly. Not sure if I should take it to my local fisher delete for a once over if they can even get me in.
> 
> also anyone suggest a level kit or run it as it? Plow definitely drags on steep inclines getting into / out of driveways.


The blade dragging as you hit inclines is normal. If you move the wings forward a bit when doing so, it will get them off the ground a bit. Also, ballast (weight aft of the rear axel will help.


----------



## sbaer2

EWSplow said:


> The blade dragging as you hit inclines is normal. If you move the wings forward a bit when doing so, it will get them off the ground a bit. Also, ballast (weight aft of the rear axel will help.


Got it. What do you suggest for weight if ballast?


----------



## Hydromaster

Start with around#400-#500-#600lbs of counterweight.


----------



## EWSplow

Hydromaster said:


> Start with around#400-#500-#600lbs of counterweight.


Thanks for correcting me. Counterweight, not ballast. I must have had sailing on my mind.


----------



## Hydromaster

EWSplow said:


> The blade dragging as you hit inclines is normal. If you move the wings forward a bit when doing so, it will get them off the ground a bit. Also, ballast (weight aft of the rear axel will help.


This and lowering it 
When it's all the way up the corners are close to the ground lower it a bit and they will have more clearance.


----------



## plow4beer

sbaer2 said:


> Got it. What do you suggest for weight if ballast?


Bags of sand or salt/de-icer, equal to the weight of the plow, placed between the rear axle & tailgate is where I would start…we have a truck this year that won't have a salter in the back, so we're putting a 96gal transfer tank & several bags of de-icer places from roughly the axle to tailgate…plow is in the neighborhood of 1k lbs…of course fuel/de-icer will fluctuate with usage, but pretty confident it will work just fine.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

plow4beer said:


> Bags of sand or salt/de-icer, equal to the weight of the plow, placed between the rear axle & tailgate is where I would start…we have a truck this year that won't have a salter in the back, so we're putting a 96gal transfer tank & several bags of de-icer places from roughly the axle to tailgate…plow is in the neighborhood of 1k lbs…of course fuel/de-icer will fluctuate with usage, but pretty confident it will work just fine.


Need a Stryker?


----------



## plow4beer

Mark Oomkes said:


> Need a Stryker?


nah….that stuffs for suckers


----------



## Ice-sage

*How much to invest first year*
Minimum 350 thousand.


----------



## sbaer2

plow4beer said:


> nah….that stuffs for suckers


I don't even know what that is


----------



## Ice-sage

@sbaer2

https://rhinegeist.com/beer/stryker/
Or

https://www.strykerspirits.com/vodka.htmlAnd whiskey

But this..

https://www.westernplows.com/products/striker/


----------



## sbaer2

Ice-sage said:


> *How much to invest first year*
> Minimum 350 thousand.


as long as I can write it off and im using your check book! lol


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Can't wait for next year:

How much to invest the second year?


----------



## Ice-sage

Mark Oomkes said:


> Can't wait for next year:
> 
> How much to invest the second year?


A metric ton of Hondo's.(Hundos?)


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ice-sage said:


> A metric ton of Hondo's.(Hundos?)


One of the love/hate paradoxes of the snow industry. Once one starts "investing" in this industry, one never stops until one retires.

There's always something newer/better/faster/not broken or worn out.


----------



## jonniesmooth

Mark Oomkes said:


> Can't wait for next year:
> 
> How much to invest the second year?


That's better than the Lawnsite variant,
" Who's working Thanksgiving?"
Christmas 
Easter
Rosh Hoshanna ( sp?)
Etc.


----------



## sbaer2

Curious my truck radio was blank but backup camera worked. Stayed like that for my full 7 minute drive. Shut truck off for a minute. Back on and radio and display is working again.

wondering if a plow wiring would affect anything on radio? Could be a coincidence.. just trying to learn and what to expect


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc.

sbaer2 said:


> Curious my truck radio was blank but backup camera worked. Stayed like that for my full 7 minute drive. Shut truck off for a minute. Back on and radio and display is working again.
> 
> wondering if a plow wiring would affect anything on radio? Could be a coincidence.. just trying to learn and what to expect


My Ram (2020) does that every now and again. Occasionally, the backup camera doesn't work. Sometimes the radio. Shutting off seems to fix it.


----------



## Kvston

sbaer2 said:


> Also I realize this is a pretty decent set up for a novice but I already had the truck. The Plow is USED was $5500 installed. I was getting quotes for used straight blades of $5000 so it made sense to just go this route for a few hundred more.
> 
> I also assume this is just like being deployed. Assume you already dead (will break down) and if you don't break down that's a win. Fingers crossed for a safe and productive season.


We load 5-600 pounds of salt in the rear of our Ram pickups. We also use 2" all steel spring spacers from Rough Country on all our pickups that aren't 10k chassis trucks-yours isn't A 10k.


----------



## sbaer2

Kvston said:


> We load 5-600 pounds of salt in the rear of our Ram pickups. We also use 2" all steel spring spacers from Rough Country on all our pickups that aren't 10k chassis trucks-yours isn't A 10k.


Does the weight in bed help with bounce of front end and how much it sags when I raise plow?
Every time I move plow front end bounces bad. Guessing that's normal?
Also what metal spring spacers? Like a 2 inch level?


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## Kvston

Yeah it does help settle it down some to balance the weight. Won’t stop it. Leveling kit helps too. The 2” kits we use set the truck up well. Extended bump stops aren’t a bad idea either


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## sbaer2

Kvston said:


> Yeah it does help settle it down some to balance the weight. Won't stop it. Leveling kit helps too. The 2" kits we use set the truck up well. Extended bump stops aren't a bad idea either


If I add 2 inch level wont I have to readjust the truck side push plate to be down 2 inches so I can still mount plow easily.


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## BUFF

sbaer2 said:


> If I add 2 inch level wont I have to readjust the truck side push plate to be down 2 inches so I can still mount plow easily.


Yes you will need to drop to maintain correct plow geometry


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## sbaer2

Looks like we may get our first snowfall of year this weekend. Curious for residentials I have my trigger set at about 4 inches. I am curious if we even do get 3-4 inches would you plow it even if it will melt fairly quickly due to temperatures? I don't want to take advantage of clients but also want to do what is standard.


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## SHAWZER

4 " is a high trigger , 2" was mine for residentials .


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## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> Looks like we may get our first snowfall of year this weekend. Curious for residentials I have my trigger set at about 4 inches. I am curious if we even do get 3-4 inches would you plow it even if it will melt fairly quickly due to temperatures? I don't want to take advantage of clients but also want to do what is standard.


Those are rather high triggers. Most of mine were 1", with a few 2" properties.
The ground temperature will affect how much snow actually accumulates.
You have to watch the hourly weather forecast to determine what might happen. You don't want it turning to ice.
Scraping it off may be necessary with that amount of snow.


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## sbaer2

Makes sense. I am not offering salting or sanding but can definitely scrape it off if thats standard.


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## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> Makes sense. I am not offering salting or sanding but can definitely scrape it off if thats standard.


Weather it will matter in a law suit or not, make sure your contracts are clear in the fact that your clients are responsible for ice control.


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## Kinport

sbaer2 said:


> Curious for residentials I have my trigger set at about 4 inches.


4 inches? Seems awful deep. Did you set that or did your customers?

most of our properties we go out around .5-.75 of an inch. We have a few that are zero tolerance meaning we go out even with a skiff.

i should add those are all commercial properties, but even for residential 4" seems like a lot. I'f it were me I'd shoot for 1". Also, to make your life easier, I'd try to get all your properties to have the same trigger. If you let your customers choose their trigger, some will want 1", some will want 2", some will want 3", etc… and you'll have to change your route every storm. If you can get everyone on the same page(YOUR page) it's a lot less thinking and hassle.


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## Kinport

sbaer2 said:


> If I add 2 inch level wont I have to readjust the truck side push plate to be down 2 inches so I can still mount plow easily.


Fisher truck side push plates don't adjust like Boss plows. There are some adjustments that can be made on the plow side to accommodate different truck heights


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## EWSplow

Kinport said:


> 4 inches? Seems awful deep. Did you set that or did your customers?
> 
> most of our properties we go out around .5-.75 of an inch. We have a few that are zero tolerance meaning we go out even with a skiff.
> 
> i should add those are all commercial properties, but even for residential 4" seems like a lot. I'f it were me I'd shoot for 1". Also, to make your life easier, I'd try to get all your properties to have the same trigger. If you let your customers choose their trigger, some will want 1", some will want 2", some will want 3", etc… and you'll have to change your route every storm. If you can get everyone on the same page(YOUR page) it's a lot less thinking and hassle.


Exactly. I started with some 2" triggers. The only ones I had left after going to strictly 1" were some old customers. We'd do them at 1.5" and nobody quibbled over the 1/2" difference.
Never let your clients dictate service. it will bite you in the behind. I had 2 over the years that tried to do that. They'd call and say don't plow, then call later asking me to plow. "Sorry, we're done in your area". I immediately dropped them.


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## sbaer2

EWSplow said:


> Exactly. I started with some 2" triggers. The only ones I had left after going to strictly 1" were some old customers. We'd do them at 1.5" and nobody quibbled over the 1/2" difference.
> Never let your clients dictate service. it will bite you in the behind. I had 2 over the years that tried to do that. They'd call and say don't plow, then call later asking me to plow. "Sorry, we're done in your area". I immediately dropped them.


How did you go about dropping them? I don't have contracts just agreements month to month. Would you just write an email saying hey goodbye or how did you word it?
I have 1-2 clients who are already irking me.


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## sbaer2

I kind of was having them set it since I am only committing to the 7 clients but the 2 inch scrape makes sense to me since almost half are blacktop. I Just didnt want to take advantage of residential people but if 2 inch is normal even for resis i wont feel bad. 

Thank you all!


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## EWSplow

sbaer2 said:


> How did you go about dropping them? I don't have contracts just agreements month to month. Would you just write an email saying hey goodbye or how did you word it?
> I have 1-2 clients who are already irking me.


Politely explain to them that when plowing is needed is to be decided by you, not them.
You can explain that if their property isn't cleared and they continue to drive and walk on snow, it is creating a dangerous situation. You won't be able to scape it off and they will be disappointed.
Because of liability issues, you cannot wait until there's 4 inches built up.


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## jato

sbaer2 said:


> i mean i have 2 pretty close freinds that most likely could get to them and then a couple others I know through summer business. I agree and as soon as I can i want to get a second truck. I was toying with idea of getting a used truck with plow this year to start and then putting a mount on my "new" truck so I have foot in door plus two trucks but it seems like a lot just to get going. Plus not to mention the maintenance on both a heavily used plow truck and old plow...
> 
> I dont have all the answers to your questions and its definitely trial by fire for me with fingers crossed. That is also why ive capped my route at 15 even though ive gotten other calls. Ive also stayed away from tough driveways and poor quality drives. Again i agree I need a viable backup plan but worst case Ill have some angry clients but such is life.


Why a backup truck? If you had to, you could do 15 drives with a walk behind 2-stage blower. Just put it on a rack behind your truck or rent a little uhaul trailer. That's a cheaper way to start than buying a plow. And you can charge more. And it won't ruin your truck. I did about 30-35 last year with that method and a little Toyota RAV4. Some were "2nd day" service and were told that when they signed up. After a season of that plus a season mowing lawns I saved up and invested more for growth this second year.
It might be a good idea to do this on a medium scale for a year before dumping $$ into 2 trucks and 2 plows. Then you'll see if you enjoy it, make it thru the full season, if you like the stress of it, if it doesn't interfere too much with your life (for example, last year those of us in SE Michigan worked on Xmas eve and New Years Day). Also of course to see if you can make it profitable, etc.


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## jato

Hydromaster said:


> No.
> it's true I don't know why your friends would come and quickly bail you out, when they have their own work to
> I'm not being condescending at all.
> Just being a realist and posting from experience.
> 
> you have responsibilities to get your clients drives clear and you have no clear plan of doing this if you become injured/sick or your truck breaks down.
> 
> not everyone started with a fleet of trucks and loaders so check the attitude.
> A lot of us started out with one truck and a snowblower.
> You have guys given you opinions and ideas from real life experiences.
> 
> I started with one truck but I got a couple dozen more driveways so I could hire someone with another truck to plow with me. that way if my truck or his truck broke down we could cover it. then I brought a second truck then a third truck and hired A subcontractor with his own trucks.
> 
> PS
> in a big snow you won't be able to snow blow them out in time so they can get to work or if they have an emergency.
> And how would you get your snowblower to all your clients without a truck?


Hitch receiver cargo rack, plus sumo springs. Can do this with any small suv or maybe a car. And I think anybody living in a snow climate who needs help getting out of their driveway for a work emergency is either driving the wrong car, or will get stuck on the road a mile away. But anyway, I agree with everything you're saying here.


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## Hydromaster

Lol
Man can only snowblow for so long.

Every time you you get in and drive to the next account your going to be a wet sweaty mess.

then let’s not even discuss multi day events.

Ha you’d be surprised how many rich folks think a Porsche Cayenne will get them to where they need to go…


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## jato

Hydromaster said:


> Lol
> Man can only snowblow for so long.
> 
> Every time you you get in and drive to the next account your going to be a wet sweaty mess.
> 
> then let's not even discuss multi day events.
> 
> Ha you'd be surprised how many rich folks think a Porsche Cayenne will get them to where they need to go…


All very true. I was a sweaty mess. And I was lucky last year was light on snow. Hah.


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## SnowHampshire

EWSplow said:


> If you have a snow blower and vehicle to transport it, you have another backup plan.


I would not say a snowblower is a back up plan, at least in many cases. Small driveways, light snow, short event, yea you could get by. I relied on a snowblower my first breakdown and it was a **** show. I found a guy to give my route to incase of emergency. I pay him the full cost just to cover my ass so I don't have worry about my customers being serviced. You will have a breakdown at some point. Last year I had a breakdown during a big event due to a faulty BRAND NEW cv axle. I scouted out the LAST uhaul truck, borrowed a snowblower, told my buddy id pay him 50/hr to shovel and we went at it all night. I never had a clue how damn slow snowblowing is. if its heavy snow, good luck! The snowblower went down with like 3 customers left late at night. Ended up flagging down some kids in a plow truck, followed them around, ended up jumping in their truck myself lol. Horrible, stressful, tiring, stressful, horrible night, lost lots of $$. Didn't lose 1 customer or let anyone down. This year Ive made it a priority to NETWORK!! Find some guys that need the same thing, there are probably some new guys plowing that could use the same backup. Sorry to hijack, just giving you some perspective.


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## sbaer2

SnowHampshire said:


> I would not say a snowblower is a back up plan, at least in many cases. Small driveways, light snow, short event, yea you could get by. I relied on a snowblower my first breakdown and it was a **** show. I found a guy to give my route to incase of emergency. I pay him the full cost just to cover my ass so I don't have worry about my customers being serviced. You will have a breakdown at some point. Last year I had a breakdown during a big event due to a faulty BRAND NEW cv axle. I scouted out the LAST uhaul truck, borrowed a snowblower, told my buddy id pay him 50/hr to shovel and we went at it all night. I never had a clue how damn slow snowblowing is. if its heavy snow, good luck! The snowblower went down with like 3 customers left late at night. Ended up flagging down some kids in a plow truck, followed them around, ended up jumping in their truck myself lol. Horrible, stressful, tiring, stressful, horrible night, lost lots of $$. Didn't lose 1 customer or let anyone down. This year Ive made it a priority to NETWORK!! Find some guys that need the same thing, there are probably some new guys plowing that could use the same backup. Sorry to hijack, just giving you some perspective.


Excellent points and thank you. I am keeping it small time this year. Capped it only at 10 driveways and not really going to be picking up extras even during large snow events unless its a super easy driveway because I dont want to damage my truck, plow, or their property. Hoping my truck and plow treat me well and next year i plan to get a second truck for sure.


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## SnowHampshire

sbaer2 said:


> Excellent points and thank you. I am keeping it small time this year. Capped it only at 10 driveways and not really going to be picking up extras even during large snow events unless its a super easy driveway because I dont want to damage my truck, plow, or their property. Hoping my truck and plow treat me well and next year i plan to get a second truck for sure.


Good luck brother! Keep doin what you're doing, I'll be praying to the Snow Gods for us


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## jato

sbaer2 said:


> Excellent points and thank you. I am keeping it small time this year. Capped it only at 10 driveways and not really going to be picking up extras even during large snow events unless its a super easy driveway because I dont want to damage my truck, plow, or their property. Hoping my truck and plow treat me well and next year i plan to get a second truck for sure.


Yes good luck. And if you do any one-time trips for non-clients, make it worth your while. Give them a wide ballpark price and then an exact rate once you actually see the property.


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## sbaer2

well boys figured I would give a small update. Season has been slow here in the Catskill Mountains of New York. We have received two "plowable" events. The first was a little 3 inch clipper and the second was the 12+ storm we received a little over a week ago. 

The first small plow was good to learn on and the second one had me out at 130am plowing some deep snow and roads were not even touched. I went out a couple times for that storm and was definitely stressed driving in middle of the blizzard. However I made good money and looking back after i made it through it was kind of "enjoyable" if that makes sense. Hard to describe but now I am looking forward to next event not just for the money but I had fun plowing. 

This current noreaster is going to completely miss us not even a dusting but hoping february/beginning of march we can get another 2-3. 


Looking at next year I think when i get second truck I will invest in salter/sander because the ice management could have kept me pretty busy. 

ANyway slow season but have learned a ton from triggers, how to plow, and deal with clients. 

Hope everyone is safe and thanks as always for the help.


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## SnowHampshire

Reading back I'm surprised about such low triggers for residential. I charge per push... I can't imagine how much it would cost the customer, Nor can I imagine how I would even do that even with just 10 driveways with a 1-2" trigger. Does it really vary that much by region? I need New England guys here to chime in?

For me, 2" is plowable and my trigger is typically 3". Sometimes I push more if it's light and fluffy, But that's kind of rare here lately.


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## RichardBongIII

sbaer2 said:


> well boys figured I would give a small update. Season has been slow here in the Catskill Mountains of New York. We have received two "plowable" events. The first was a little 3 inch clipper and the second was the 12+ storm we received a little over a week ago.
> 
> The first small plow was good to learn on and the second one had me out at 130am plowing some deep snow and roads were not even touched. I went out a couple times for that storm and was definitely stressed driving in middle of the blizzard. However I made good money and looking back after i made it through it was kind of "enjoyable" if that makes sense. Hard to describe but now I am looking forward to next event not just for the money but I had fun plowing.
> 
> This current noreaster is going to completely miss us not even a dusting but hoping february/beginning of march we can get another 2-3.
> 
> Looking at next year I think when i get second truck I will invest in salter/sander because the ice management could have kept me pretty busy.
> 
> ANyway slow season but have learned a ton from triggers, how to plow, and deal with clients.
> 
> Hope everyone is safe and thanks as always for the help.


Wow... you're close to where I live possibly. The snow has been way too low I think.


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## Philbilly2

RichardBongIII said:


> Wow... you're close to where I live possibly.


@sbaer2 - My condolences


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## sbaer2

RichardBongIII said:


> Wow... you're close to where I live possibly. The snow has been way too low I think.


Sullivan county


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## sbaer2

RichardBongIII said:


> Wow... you're close to where I live possibly. The snow has been way too low I think.





SnowHampshire said:


> Reading back I'm surprised about such low triggers for residential. I charge per push... I can't imagine how much it would cost the customer, Nor can I imagine how I would even do that even with just 10 driveways with a 1-2" trigger. Does it really vary that much by region? I need New England guys here to chime in?
> 
> For me, 2" is plowable and my trigger is typically 3". Sometimes I push more if it's light and fluffy, But that's kind of rare here lately.


Not sure I follow?
I plow anything over 2 inches within reasons meaning if it snowed 2/3 inches but was going melt then next day I wouldn't take advantage of people.
I have a price for 2-6 inches (one push) and 6-12 inches. Typically on the larger storms I've been going out twice.


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## Mark Oomkes

sbaer2 said:


> Not sure I follow?
> I plow anything over 2 inches within reasons meaning if it snowed 2/3 inches but was going melt then next day I wouldn't take advantage of people.
> I have a price for 2-6 inches (one push) and 6-12 inches. Typically on the larger storms I've been going out twice.


Take advantage of people? Forecasts are 100% accurate?

Wow!


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## SnowHampshire

I mean plowing driveways every 1-2 inches during a storm...Im probably brain farting or misinterpreting


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## sbaer2

SnowHampshire said:


> I mean plowing driveways every 1-2 inches during a storm...Im probably brain farting or misinterpreting


oh no. I don't do that. Typically 5/6 inch per push on the larger storms. I have only had one so far this year


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## RichardBongIII

sbaer2 said:


> Sullivan county


I'm in Green County. So, we're about 2 hours apart. You're in the heart of the Borscht Belt. I go to Kerhonkson sometimes which is close but not quite as far as you are.


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## SnowHampshire

RichardBongIII said:


> I'm in Green County. So, we're about 2 hours apart.


It'll be years until you have to fight to the death over plowing turf


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## RichardBongIII

SnowHampshire said:


> It'll be years until you have to fight to the death over plowing turf


At my favorite truck's speed of 47mph tops-- it will be never.


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## sbaer2

RichardBongIII said:


> I'm in Green County. So, we're about 2 hours apart. You're in the heart of the Borscht Belt. I go to Kerhonkson sometimes which is close but not quite as far as you are.


Borscht Belt?

nvm just googled it...that is 100 percent accurate lol


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## RichardBongIII

sbaer2 said:


> Borscht Belt?


Yeah, well back in the 1950's Sullivan County and Ulster County had a ton of resorts that catered to people from New York City. And many of these people were Jewish especially so they got the nickname of Borscht belt resorts.


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## jonniesmooth

RichardBongIII said:


> Yeah, well back in the 1950's Sullivan County and Ulster County had a ton of resorts that catered to people from New York City. And many of these people were Jewish especially so they got the nickname of Borscht belt resorts.


Holy crap! Do you know the Kellermans'?
Did you learn to dance there?


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## RichardBongIII

jonniesmooth said:


> Holy crap! Do you know the Kellermans'?
> Did you learn to dance there?


Yes, I was the baby that no one puts in the corner.


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## Mark Oomkes

MarthaBenson said:


> You cannot, however, make it snow.


Actually, you can. Just need water, compressor, hose and snow guns.


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## 512high

Mark Oomkes said:


> Actually, you can. Just need water, compressor, hose and snow guns.


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