# Big bid need some help



## {Wideout} (Mar 16, 2015)

Hello everyone , I have a pretty good idea of what im going to charge for this property , all that's in the red box is included except the red X , also the lot to the left is filled with cars always because it is a dealer . I would really appreciate if someone would just shed some light on a full season contract no sidewalks just plowing it and salt . I am not a newbie , I have 125 residential accounts and everyone is happy and makes me want to take the next step in the industry . Thank you for your input , and also is there any templates out there for commercial bidding ? Really not sure how to set the proposal up ect ect . thanks again


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## {Wideout} (Mar 16, 2015)

*image*

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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

If this is your first commercial account, I don't think it would be a good one to get your feet wet on.

Start small, fast food, etc and grow from there. Especially if you're looking at seasonal work. 

Need square footage to help get an accurate idea of salt required. How long are you estimating it to take to plow? How much salt are you estimating?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

" I am not a newbie , I have 125 residential accounts"
125, hummm if you had said 126 or 124 you would have been good, but 125....

How do you know what they do or dont want done?
How much do you charge?


Advice, if your all you have doing is residential, stick with that.
Unless you have 10's of thousands to spent to step up to the equipment needed to service this lot, then you will need a few accounts like the one above to make any $$$


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## {Wideout} (Mar 16, 2015)

It looks alot bigger than what it really is , any spot you see that has an open spot is totally filled with cars . The red X is a lot that is not theirs yet so its not included. So in reality there is no open areas at all just isles for cars to pass threw . I have been plowing commercial lots for about 4 years now , Ive been subbed that hole time as well because I wanted to pay attention to my residential before I went out after to sub. I am dedicated to plowing 2 home depots and a shopping center as well . Im just tired of making them all the money , its a huge huge company out here subbing everyone and there mother but they pay . Its time for me to step up and handle things on my own instead of growing somebody else,s company from my blood sweat and tears . I have a 2015 f350 with a wide out , 2005 f250 boss 8 footer , and was going to snag a xlt with wings for my other truck just for this account . ,,, I would say 2 tons per occurrence and 2 hrs to plow it .


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Just to clarify, are you planning on putting 3 trucks on this per occurance? 2 hours is pretty ambitious in my opinion for one truck. I would at least look into the cost of getting some sort of skid steer/backhoe/loader for this place only because there is limited space for piling snow and you're going to need to stack it up higher than any truck will. Just my .02


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

{Wideout};1981632 said:


> It looks alot bigger than what it really is , any spot you see that has an open spot is totally filled with cars . The red X is a lot that is not theirs yet so its not included. So in reality there is no open areas at all just isles for cars to pass threw . I have been plowing commercial lots for about 4 years now , Ive been subbed that hole time as well because I wanted to pay attention to my residential before I went out after to sub. I am dedicated to plowing 2 home depots and a shopping center as well . Im just tired of making them all the money , its a huge huge company out here subbing everyone and there mother but they pay . Its time for me to step up and handle things on my own instead of growing somebody else,s company from my blood sweat and tears . I have a 2015 f350 with a wide out , 2005 f250 boss 8 footer , and was going to snag a xlt with wings for my other truck just for this account . ,,, I would say 2 tons per occurrence and 2 hrs to plow it .


I still don't know square footage, but looking at that overhead shot 2 tons of salt seems high. Especially if it's a car dealership, half the pavement will be covered with cars.

I don't see why you couldn't knock that out in 2 hours with a Wideout, 2 inches of snow on the ground. Should be faster than that, but without knowing actual size or seeing it I can't say for sure. I could see stacking over the long run being an issue possibly with a heavy winter. There isn't much room to put snow.

I didn't see you were in Cleveland. What's your price for the season? Our markets are close enough that I should be able to tell you if you're in the ball park.

EDIT: If you watch what you're doing and build the base of the piles right at the start of the season, I think you'll be fine with just a truck stacking. If you don't get them back far enough in the beginning then you're going to have issues.

Do you have access to a skid steer or something, as a just in case cover your ass deal in a big storm?

And damn was there some editing in this thread. Thanks MJD.


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## {Wideout} (Mar 16, 2015)

John_DeereGreen;1981646 said:


> I still don't know square footage, but looking at that overhead shot 2 tons of salt seems high. Especially if it's a car dealership, half the pavement will be covered with cars.
> 
> I don't see why you couldn't knock that out in 2 hours with a Wideout, 2 inches of snow on the ground. Should be faster than that, but without knowing actual size or seeing it I can't say for sure. I could see stacking over the long run being an issue possibly with a heavy winter. There isn't much room to put snow.
> 
> ...


You are 100% correct , ya see the problem is they are plowing it them selves and having a company come in and salt it , and in the beginning they did not anticipate the snow threw out the season since they are inexperienced and did not stack any snow at all and had no room at all this past season DISASTER ,, all in all I was going to come in at $40 k without side walks and $45K with .. lemi hear it ,


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

"all that's in the red box is included except the red X ,"

and you think 2hrs with 2 trucks...:laughing:
Plain on sending the better part of a day.

As they send out 2-3 salesmen to move cars while you clear out their spots.
then they put them back.

then you will be cleaning up the driving lanes again.


but wait, the more the op posts, the rest of his story comes out.
all I do is 1525 resi drives, ho waite, I sub for xyz too.

I'm out of this rabbit hole..
have fun guys...


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

Never did a dealer ship...but to me I would want a pusher for those long runs with nowhere to put the snow but at the ends.

If you do get this account know where they want the snow. Make sure cars are moved so you have a place to put it.

IMO I would say this is a 3-4 hour job or like sno said...better part of a day to be safe. lots of back dragging and going back for clean ups when they move the cars.

Your price 40 k IMO sounds close for starts. Are they going to give you a new truck too ??


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## {Wideout} (Mar 16, 2015)

SnoFarmer;1981656 said:


> "all that's in the red box is included except the red X ,"
> 
> and you think 2hrs with 2 trucks...:laughing:
> Plain on sending the better part of a day.
> ...


WRONG THEY HAVE A OVERFLOW LOT ACROSS THE STREET WHERE THE CARS ARE PARKED OVER NIGHT THAT ARE IN THE ISLES ,

but wait, the more the op posts, the rest of his story comes out.
all I do is 1525 resi drives, ho waite, I sub for xyz too. CANT READ THIS ?


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

What's the square footage?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

{Wideout};1981655 said:


> You are 100% correct , ya see the problem is they are plowing it them selves and having a company come in and salt it , and in the beginning they did not anticipate the snow threw out the season since they are inexperienced and did not stack any snow at all and had no room at all this past season DISASTER ,, all in all I was going to come in at $40 k without side walks and $45K with .. lemi hear it ,


You're dreaming. Or you're one hell of a salesman if you can sell it at that price.

Also, you need to clarify what they want done and how. Are you only doing driving lanes? Or are you doing the whole lot and they're moving cars for you?

If it's option A, you're golden with 2 hours IMO. If it's option B, you better figure one truck will be there 6 hours. No point in wasting the time of 2 trucks for that.

Square footage would still be nice.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

{Wideout};1981665 said:


> WRONG THEY HAVE A OVERFLOW LOT ACROSS THE STREET WHERE THE CARS ARE PARKED OVER NIGHT THAT ARE IN THE ISLES ,
> 
> but wait, the more the op posts, the rest of his story comes out.
> all I do is 1525 resi drives, ho waite, I sub for xyz too. CANT READ THIS ?


:laughing::laughing:

Who plows this lot across the street?
Why isn't it in your bid package?.

Do you think, every time snow is in the forecast the dealer has the salesmen move all of the cars to this lot across the street so this lot will be wide open for you?
You will be tied up all day as the 3-4 sales men move and clean off all of those cars.
Then who is servicing your 125 residential customers?

damm I thought I got out , all this loose dirt around the hole sliding , sliding back in.....

again, good luck.


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

380000 sq ft and that is minus the x and still including the buildings on site. Rough estimate.


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

Who are you subbing for in the cleveland area, Abraxus?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Poof.......


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Poof.......


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

SnoFarmer;1981624 said:


> "
> 
> Advice, if your all you have doing is residential, stick with that.
> Unless you have 10's of thousands to spent to step up to the equipment needed to service this lot, then you will need a few accounts like the one above to make any $$$


I think his equipment is just fine, a skid maybe a better set up but a pickup and wideout is fine.

Op, I've done a dealer before, it's a pain. What I did was clean the lanes, then I came back after I was done with everything else, and they had the cars moved. Also make sure to have a clause in the contract about them plowing and you not being liable for snow "boulders" sliding into cars because of their stacking or parking. Also imho the only way to do dealers is hourly, one day maybe 1 salesman moves cars and instead of 4-6 hours, it's now 7-8. Make them pay for being slow.

Sno farmer, please do tell what you would use, I'm guessing a 950k Cat payloader with a 16' artic sectional?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

beanz27;1981709 said:


> Sno farmer, please do tell what you would use, I'm guessing a 950k Cat payloader with a 16' artic sectional?


No, I'd take your advice and use 7.5 Veee plow .

as I said he needs bigger and better equipment and more employees. As he also has 125 residential drives and to service also.

The buddy with a truck is moot.
He needs to have a "business" so ether he takes on a "business partner" or a employee.

Id use this.
but all of this post is Moot as I'm not taking this seriously. 
a skid with a pusher + a competent employee, Insurance, time cost while you wait for the sales crew to move and clean off cars in their suites and loafers...
.....
a skid, pusher, salt salter, employee, salt storage, back up equipment etc etc so I'm probable low on my $$$ estimate
so have fun.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Honestly I'm afraid to say it but I do agree on the skid, a competent operator and a pusher with a backdrag edge. And no I use mostly 8'2" v plows btw.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

beanz27;1981709 said:


> I think his equipment is just fine, a skid maybe a better set up but a pickup and wideout is fine.
> 
> Op, I've done a dealer before, it's a pain. What I did was clean the lanes, then I came back after I was done with everything else, and they had the cars moved. Also make sure to have a clause in the contract about them plowing and you not being liable for snow "boulders" sliding into cars because of their stacking or parking. Also imho the only way to do dealers is hourly, one day maybe 1 salesman moves cars and instead of 4-6 hours, it's now 7-8. Make them pay for being slow.


Agreed.

........


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I see no valid reason that a truck with a v plow or a expandable plow can't do this lot. Would a skid steer possibly be easier, or faster, sure.

But is it a necessity? Hell no. 

I'm less than 40 miles south of the OP and cover almost 3 times the property with one truck as what this lot is (if Burkhart's numbers are correct). Some is easy plowing, some is a broken up pain like this.

Would it make it nice to have to stack if we get a heavy snow or a long winter? Sure. But guess what, rental yards are packed full of open station machines all winter long. If you have to have one to do that, suck it up, rent the damn thing for a day, put on lots of clothes and get the job done.

I swear people on here would put 3 5 yard loaders and 2 skid steers on a 2 acre property sometimes. We plowed almost 20 acres of property before we had our first machine. It can be done. 

Use sense when you start the season, make sure your piles are back to where they should be and go. Will they have every single parking space? No, but I'm also guessing they don't need every single space. If they do, then you find someone with a skid steer that you can sub a couple hours of work to. It's ignorant to rent a machine for the entire winter, or to buy one, for this one property.

OP, price it right up front. Have a clause in your contract that allows you to charge hourly if they decide to move cars while you're plowing. Make them aware of this up front. Make them initial that part of your contract.

Plow snow, make money. Good luck.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

money yeah...money money more money...yeah yeah

I was just saying that with a pusher doing all those lanes would make it faster and you could stack it.

Have a truck wind row and push it out easy peasy


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