# Dirt road question



## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

i plow a customers driveway on a private dirt road ( that's maintained by someone else), I can get up without a problem but the drive down is scary when it's icy(I think I get there before he does) what would you guys recommend? Chains? Dropping the plow? Thank in advance.


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

Some guys will say put it in the opposite gear (if you are driving froward put the transmission in reverse) and creep down very slowly...

But the last couple of years I have actually found that neutral (at least for me) seems to work better so I have complete control over breaking with no chance of the drive train suddenly breaking the tires free and causing a skid.

Keep in mind that my experience is only on blacktop not gravel, and I have never had the opportunity to try chains. I just figured i'd put in my 2 cents.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

When your going up your making a winroe. When you go down. Keep the plow against it, go slowly


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## GrassManKzoo (Oct 8, 2016)

I do a house in the very back of a neighborhood.. it's never plowed by the county like it's supposed to be. I blow the road open from main road to customers house and back.. sometimes if I didn't the whole neighborhood would be screwed


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Slow and steady...


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

Chains. I carry emergency strap on chains that you can slap on and off real quick; perfect for these types of situations. I've done that when we get coatings of ice. 

Dropping the plow won't slow you down much.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

There's a guy on the forums here that's become an expert at difficult driveways.

His screen name is ktfbgb, and he lives in Northern Arizona. He'd be the best guy here to point you in the right direction regarding technique and safety...


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

Put some sand and salt in the back of your truck . If you get in trouble get out and spread a few shovel fulls around . I have one on a hill that I have to do that every time i go there only takes a few minutes and makes a huge difference .


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

never used reverse going forward.

are you using shoes?

why haven't you kept et scraped down to gravel?

what is your triger?

sell them on cinders, grit or sand, as im sure ets slippery for your clients too.

studded tires...


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## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

SnoFarmer said:


> never used reverse going forward.
> 
> are you using shoes?
> 
> ...


I don't take care of the road just the customers driveway, it's a private road so they pay a road maintanence fee and contract the road to someone else. I just got this account last week and I was wondering why it was a mid season change I think I figured it out rather quickly lol.no shoes, 3" trigger.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Mountainviewpropertymgmt said:


> I don't take care of the road just the customers driveway, it's a private road so they pay a road maintanence fee and contract the road to someone else. I just got this account last week and I was wondering why it was a mid season change I think I figured it out rather quickly lol.no shoes, 3" trigger.


ok
i guess we know why. lol

then studs.
drop the plow and scrap on the way down.
or as suggested, you might have to spread a few shovel fulls of sand just for your safety if its that bad..


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## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

thank you all for your advice, this is my first time in this type of situation, ive never had to use chains and idk where i would buy them lol. i thought we were done with snow for the year but we have a storm tomorrow that could drop 12 inches. i only have a 2wd at this time my transfer case gave out the last storm we had. the joys of living in the snowbelt lol


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Drive up with the blade up,plow down. I do a lot of hilly drives, most pushes are straight forward plow in and out. Some of th heavier or icier ones I get to play "I'm the king of the mountain" and plow my way down.


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## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

Mr.Markus said:


> Drive up with the blade up,plow down. I do a lot of hilly drives, most pushes are straight forward plow in and out. Some of th heavier or icier ones I get to play "I'm the king of the mountain" and plow my way down.


I was creeping down yesterday and all of a sudden my rear end kicked out and slide a bit to the left and I was able to get it straight and stop and get out and assess the situation I just hate that feeling lol.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

How mulch counterweight are you useing?

Or is there a pile of vehicles at the bottom of this hill


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## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

SnoFarmer said:


> How mulch counterweight are you useing?
> 
> Or is there a pile of vehicles at the bottom of this hill


i've filled my bed up with wood not sure of the actual weight but this is the only place i plow with this issue every other drive is level or on a level town or county maintaned road.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> There's a guy on the forums here that's become an expert at difficult driveways.
> 
> His screen name is ktfbgb, and he lives in Northern Arizona. He'd be the best guy here to point you in the right direction regarding technique and safety...


Thanks.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

It sounds like the scary part is the unmaintained dirt road and not the driveway correct? Dropping into 4Lo and then selecting 1st gear will help a lot with going down. You will be crawling very slow but the gearing will be holding the truck back. Typically you don't need and gas pedal, or brake. Just let her crawl down, and be ready to drop the blade, if there is snow it will slow you down.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

By the way, the drive that Dog is referring too is now a loader only drive, I will not take my truck back up there lol..


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

4low will cause skidding .
It's adrupt , you want slow applacation of power or brake.
You lift your foot and you break traction as it abruptly decelerates.
4low is great whear you have traction like crawling around on rocks.
Is mud, snow , ice Use 4hi to minimize wheel spin.

The use of 4x4...

A locker in the rear causing the rear to kick out..

You may just have to sand this icy hill or get studs or chains.

Or keep running the hill.
I wouldn't plow et on the way up.
I'd plow et on the way down useing the snow as a breake,
And you can actually stear or influance your direction with the plow.

Sometimes it's worse to try to creat down ice,
Sometimes you have to let her roll to be Abel to stear.

Let's seen a pic of said hill .


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

ktfbgb said:


> By the way, the drive that Dog is referring too is now a loader only drive, I will not take my truck back up there lol..


When you get your new FORD, it will be a breeze to plow.


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## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

ktfbgb said:


> It sounds like the scary part is the unmaintained dirt road and not the driveway correct? Dropping into 4Lo and then selecting 1st gear will help a lot with going down. You will be crawling very slow but the gearing will be holding the truck back. Typically you don't need and gas pedal, or brake. Just let her crawl down, and be ready to drop the blade, if there is snow it will slow you down.


That is correct the driveway is flat and level, it's the road that need to be maintained more than I maintain the driveway but it's a private contractor like all of us and we aren't perfect lol. I only have a 2wd truck. Transfer case leaks.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Well that explanes it compreshion skidding.

Let her roll use a higher Gear and use the breaks not enging compression as this will cause the rear to loose traction and walk out.

Studs, chains, sand...

Fix the transfer case...


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Fill it up, and use four wheel drive. Then fix the transfer case.


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## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

From the top 








From the bottom


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## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

Transfer case fix is in the works I ordered a new one, just waiting for it too get built and arrive so I can put it in. I honestly wasn't expecting anymore snow since it has been 40's and 50's lately. The corner is broke on this one the mechanic squeezed it together with washers but it still leaks a lot.ill fill it up and see how long it lasts lol.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Randall Ave said:


> When you get your new FORD, it will be a breeze to plow.


That's correct.


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## GrassManKzoo (Oct 8, 2016)

At least there's a guard rail at the bottom to stop ya


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Oh I thought it was like actually a hill 

That would be a 60mph dirt road where I'm from. That's a pristine road. Lol


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## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

ktfbgb said:


> Oh I thought it was like actually a hill
> 
> That would be a 60mph dirt road where I'm from. That's a pristine road. Lol


It's good with no Ice, with ice that's when it gets crappy lmao. I can deal with mud and snow but ice is a no go for me lmao.


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## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

Mountainviewpropertymgmt said:


> It's good with no Ice, that's when it gets crappy lmao. I can deal with mud and snow but ice is a no go for me lmao.


I talked with the customer tonight while I was out pre treating her walkway and she says the road guy always does a crappy job and she's going to find out how much he charges so maybe I can bid a bit lower and do it but idk how I feel about stepping on someone's toes.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

sno...

How does 4lo cause skidding?


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

ktfbgb said:


> Thanks.


The least I can do to help ya out


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Mountainviewpropertymgmt said:


> I talked with the customer tonight while I was out pre treating her walkway and she says the road guy always does a crappy job and she's going to find out how much he charges so maybe I can bid a bit lower and do it but idk how I feel about stepping on someone's toes.


Where is this? State ?


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## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> Where is this? State ?


New York


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Unless the pics are off, that ain't a steep road.


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## Mountainviewpropertymgmt (Feb 8, 2017)

Randall Ave said:


> Unless the pics are off, that ain't a steep road.


I guess what gets me is the main road at the bottom and if I can't stop and get hit. But I'm going to give it a go tomorrow when it snows with 2wd. My case is full so idk what could be wrong with it.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Philbilly2 said:


> sno...
> 
> How does 4lo cause skidding?


I think he was making a case for breaking traction if you hit the gas pedal.

I have done it many times out hunting and on snow. Throw it in low, keep your feet away from the pedals and let her crawl down. It's painfully slow but I never broke traction as long as I didn't add any input to the throttle. I don't know maybe I was just lucky. But abs doesn't work if your going that slow so I have used the above method before to get out of sticky situations with success in the past.


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

I agree about the 4lo & low gear. 

I'm new to plowing as we just moved to central New Hampshire, on the side of a mountain. We live off what they call a "Class 6" dirt road up here. It means the town owns it, but doesn't maintain it. The only other house on my road is a summer residence, so if I want to maintain access to my house, I have to plow the town road in from where they DO maintain another dirt road up from the lake. All in, it's about 3/4 mile. It's mostly pretty easy, except from my house down the first hill on my driveway, which may be as much as 35 degrees in pitch (I keep meaning to put an inclinometer on it, LOL). 

I'm plowing with a ' 02 F-250SD 5-speed with a Fisher plow and a Fisher sander in the back. The learning curve has been a b!tch! 

The top of my driveway around the garage is an asphalt apron, and it's paved down the hill for about the first 20 yards or so where it switches to dirt. On top of that, there is a curve in it at the top of the first part of the hill that I have to deal with (doesn't help traction to be on an angle).

Our first snowfall caught me a little by surprised, I had the plow on the truck, but not the sander (which weighs 600lbs empty). I thought I could get away without chains, BOY was I wrong. I'd been warned about getting sideways in that curve on the hill, and shure as sit, that's what happened...After I changed my underwear, things got better.

I discovered that the only way for me to safely negotiate that hill is to do it in 4W Low, in "L" gear and ride it slowly down (chained on all 4). If you break traction of that hill, you are NOT recovering it with brakes. Especially with the weight of 2 cu/yds of sand in the sander! 

The driveway faces SouthWest, which is why the asphalt apron up top and the first section of asphalt on top clean themselves nicely after a storm & plowing...The black surface heats up in any sun, even if it's below freezing. Sometimes however, it's been warm then iced up underneath on the asphalt portion, the chains become a liability. 

The truck is obviously getting a little long in the tooth, so I want to start thinking about my options. My Wife doesn't know how to drive stick (yet, LOL). An automatic would make life easier in the cab, but I don't think an automatic, even in 4W Low would "creep" down the hill in as a "controlled" manner as the standard does...... Thoughts on this? I have an automatic '13 Chevy Silverado 2500HD that I use for my company, and it seems like even in I'm in 4W Low, if I had a plow on it I would have to use the brakes.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

my abs doesn't work in 4x4...as all if the wheels are tied together by the drive line. one wheel cant go slower or faster than the others.

as mentioned above, also when moving down a "steep" hill in 4lo your going 5- 10-15 mph and you suddenly lift your foot, you will go into a compression/engine brake,and skid.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

as mentioned above, also when moving down a "steep" hill in 4lo your going 5- 10-15 mph and you suddenly lift your foot, you will go into a compression/engine brake,and skid.[/QUOTE]

Ok yep that will absolutely happen. If trying to creep down a hill you have to keep your foot away from the gas pedal. Thought I was explaining that with my post but I guess I didn't communicate it effectively.

Having the exhaust brake on in slippery conditions will also cause the same problem if you going fast enough for it to engage. My ABS works when in 4HI if I'm above 5mph or whatever the cut off speed is. So does traction control if you don't turn it off. But I would imaging that abs will not work in 4 lo, and I do know the traction control is automatically disengaged in 4 lo


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

the only time ive felt the abs pulse in 4x4 is if i dynamite the brakes with all 4 on ice and hold the peddle down.
but the tires still skid. because the drive line is tied together.

I dont have traction control, the wife's rig does, I cant stand it.
You've already made the correction then the traction control kicks in and you go in another direction, correcting for the traction control.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Marleywood said:


> I agree about the 4lo & low gear.
> 
> I'm new to plowing as we just moved to central New Hampshire, on the side of a mountain. We live off what they call a "Class 6" dirt road up here. It means the town owns it, but doesn't maintain it. The only other house on my road is a summer residence, so if I want to maintain access to my house, I have to plow the town road in from where they DO maintain another dirt road up from the lake. All in, it's about 3/4 mile. It's mostly pretty easy, except from my house down the first hill on my driveway, which may be as much as 35 degrees in pitch (I keep meaning to put an inclinometer on it, LOL).
> 
> ...


Great friggin post:clapping:Thumbs Up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SnoFarmer said:


> my abs doesn't work in 4x4...as all if the wheels are tied together by the drive line. one wheel cant go slower or faster than the others.


It doesn't?

Mine does.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

maybe the traction control can have enough chanels to do et, I dont have traction control, but i do haave front and rear abs..

go try it. find a lake or a sheet of ice. use 4x4.


four-wheel drive (4WD) are in the 4WD phase, the front and rear drive shafts are rigidly engaged. This rigid engagement of these drive shafts requires that the sum of front right and left wheel speeds equal the sum of the rear right and left wheel speeds. However, with vehicles equipped with standard anti-lock brake system (ABS) which control the front/rear wheels independently, the front/rear wheels rotation sums may become unequal during braking due to the ABS's independent modulation of the front/rear wheels. This causes the torque interference of the drive shafts and unanticipated torque transfer over the brake torque. Consequently, the ABS control of wheel slippage becomes difficult.

abs substantially increase your stopping distance on ice and snow.
you may not even stop...


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

at least you may be able to steer around the other vehicles as you slide threw the intersection...

Anti-lock braking system

It is true that when ABS is operating in slippery conditions, your stopping distance is likely to be increased. However, ABS prevents wheel lock-up and allows you to continue to steer effectively rather than sliding out of control – and this is usually beneficial when trying to avoid obstacles, people and other cars in an emergency braking situation. It’s very unlikely that you’ll be able to disable ABS in a modern car so it’s best to learn how to use it effectively, understand its limitations and accept that it’s a well proven safety system that could save your life.


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

Mountainviewpropertymgmt said:


> I talked with the customer tonight while I was out pre treating her walkway and she says the road guy always does a crappy job and she's going to find out how much he charges so maybe I can bid a bit lower and do it but idk how I feel about stepping on someone's toes.


You're not stepping on any toes if the customer is asking you for a price. It's obvious that they are not happy happy with the current provider.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Meh I don't think that's stepping on toes. I'm in NY that is not a dirt road that is stone. I don't think that incline will put you in to much danger, looks like a nice job.


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## Skispowder (Dec 21, 2016)

Not for nothing...(background) 
lived & plowed municipal and privates 30 years in metro Massachusetts... then moved to Vermont a few years ago...the plowing/sanding is Way more intense on so so many dirt back roads. The funny part is everyone wants to get out at 5:00 AM to go skiing...I'm a skier & big dump years like last, I skied the least
Anyway, when the wet hits those dirt roads & it freezes up....It's Down Right Scary, Period. My back is covered in sweat, I'm searing with anger over this thing we do...then it's done ✅ 
The local town plows/sanders do an incredible job. I have one flat driveway, all others are intense, steep & nasty. I have 1/2 a dozen on private roads & at first they were a burden, because I was out there to do my drives & the private roads weren't plowed and/or sanded. I'd turn around, mad, and come back later. Until I chatted it up with another plowguy...he said, "I just plow it, sand it, till I get to my driveway"...since that day, I carry 2 "tubes" of 70lb sand in cab & a 5 gal bucket, tire chains, tow chains, 600 lbs of sand on flatbed, shovels, prybars, floorjack & my Tripple A Card .
I don't get sweat running down my back anymore & im not pissed off.
Bottom line: I like that road you got & wish you luck....remember, even the Sander must back in sometimes for traction. Best of Luck, hope you get the Road too...I picked up on 1 private road on my route due to your same issues...hang in there, you'll be fine.
⛷⛷⛷⛷⛷⛷⛷⛷⛷⛷⛷⛷⛷


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## Skispowder (Dec 21, 2016)

Skispowder said:


> Not for nothing...(background)
> lived & plowed municipal and privates 30 years in metro Massachusetts... then moved to Vermont a few years ago...the plowing/sanding is Way more intense on so so many dirt back roads. The funny part is everyone wants to get out at 5:00 AM to go skiing...I'm a skier & big dump years like last, I skied the least
> Anyway, when the wet hits those dirt roads & it freezes up....It's Down Right Scary, Period. My back is covered in sweat, I'm searing with anger over this thing we do...then it's done ✅
> The local town plows/sanders do an incredible job. I have one flat driveway, all others are intense, steep & nasty. I have 1/2 a dozen on private roads & at first they were a burden, because I was out there to do my drives & the private roads weren't plowed and/or sanded. I'd turn around, mad, and come back later. Until I chatted it up with another plowguy...he said, "I just plow it, sand it, till I get to my driveway"...since that day, I carry 2 "tubes" of 70lb sand in cab & a 5 gal bucket, tire chains, tow chains, 600 lbs of sand on flatbed, shovels, prybars, floorjack & my Tripple A Card .
> ...


PS. Don't get excited, if you don't get the road, plow up, toss a little sand on the way down, it doesn't take much & run dedicated snow/stud tires with some weight in back...I finished last season with a baseball size hole in my diesel F250 manifold (no back pressure = no power) we made it another Winter haha
Pictures never show grade...skiing or plowing, I'm sure it's nasty heading down to that main road...be safe and slow...don't do 4x4 low on ice going down, I learned the hard way, that why I have a wrecker on call AAA


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