# hello nose dive. i need a new stance,lift questions.



## woofy315 (Aug 8, 2008)

wanna see something cool? nosedive!








its a little better then that currently due to cranked t-bars,but it still sucks and i cant DD the truck around with out taking the plow off in the winter,id like a stance like the 2500hd's. what are my options are far as the best set up for getting my trucks nose off the ground,i'd like to have it a bit aggresive so i can wheel it in the summer. cash isent really a issue right now,ive been saving up for just this project. any help would be awesome, thanks in advance.


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## William B. (Jul 22, 2004)

Look into the cognito leveling kit.Do a search for Nor Cal trucks. Hurry thought because Cognito said its raising it's prices soon.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Also consider a heavier set of T-bars to go along with that leveling kit. The 1500's are sprung rather soft for plow duty.


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## woofy315 (Aug 8, 2008)

thanks! with the cognito will i need to do a lift block in the rear?


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## chcav1218 (Jul 31, 2008)

Timbrens work


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

woofy315;573962 said:


> thanks! with the cognito will i need to do a lift block in the rear?


Not if you don't want to. Just depends on the stance you want, and how much you actually raise the front.


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## woofy315 (Aug 8, 2008)

as high as it will go in the front. what is timbrens?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

woofy315;573992 said:


> as high as it will go in the front. what is timbrens?


Search "Timbrens" here in the Chevy forums...you'll have hours of reading. 

How high it will go is dependent on how much travel you have to work with (from where it is now) in the front. You need to leave some droop travel or it'll grossly affect ride quality. Most 1/2 ton trucks will come up 2" in the front and still have enough gap between the UCA and the droop stop on the frame for a stock like ride quality.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

woofy315;573992 said:


> as high as it will go in the front. what is timbrens?


Timbrens are a rubber suspension support system. Look up at the top where all the adds are, its the bottom left. It will say TIMBREN once and a while as that sponsor flips through its products.


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## Indy (Sep 23, 2007)

Timbrens taken the load on my "fleet"
Attached Imageshttp://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=59469


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

Indyplower;574015 said:


> Timbrens taken the load on my "fleet"
> Attached Imageshttp://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=59469


linky no worky


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Mark13;574058 said:


> linky no worky


It will now: Indys Timbrens thread


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## sweetk30 (Sep 3, 2006)

i would go bigger tbars and good shoocks and then possible other stuff. but yes 1500 truck are under spring bad in my opinion these days. to much like family cars. 

go to dealer and get the biggest tbars that will fit your truck and install them with the correct tools and set the ride hight and get alignment done.


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## woofy315 (Aug 8, 2008)

timbrens sound good,so sweetk30 i can get a 2500hd tbar set up at a chevy dealer? thanks for the help guys.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

woofy315;574241 said:


> so i can get a 2500hd tbar set up at a chevy dealer? thanks for the help guys.


You can fit any T-bars you want. '88-'08 1500,2500,2500HD,3500 T-bars all interchange. One of the beauties of the GM's.

Check your current bar codes to see whats on it now. Can go up in capacity from there.

Many '99-up 1500 e-cabs use the "YH" T-bars. Plenty of room for improvement.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

B&B;574242 said:


> You can fit any T-bars you want. '88-'08 1500,2500,2500HD,3500 T-bars all interchange. One of the beauties of the GM's.
> 
> Check your current bar codes to see whats on it now. Can go up in capacity from there.
> 
> Many '99-up 1500 e-cabs use the "YH" T-bars. Plenty of room for improvement.


What would be the normal code for the bars on a 98 k1500 with the 6200 gvwr? Mine say GH on them.


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## woofy315 (Aug 8, 2008)

i'll have to crawl under the nbs tommorow and check the code, could i do ford keys with new tbars?


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but timbrens won't do much for front end sag until your suspension dips enough to bring them into contact...they're not so much helper springs as they are enhanced bump stops. I don't have a set myself, but thats the impression I've gotten.

I have the exact same problem as the OP. 2000 nbs 2500, turned the t-bars 3 full turns when I gout the truck a couple years ago, but time and some light plowing have taken their toll and I think its probably time for new t-bars. I would opt for the 2500HD bars myself to increase the front end load capacity when carrying the plow.

Anyone have a ballpark range for a set of t-bars and whatever other parts are commonly required? I found what appears to be a good writeup of the R&R process. Anything missing?

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums...keys-torsion-bar-cranking-replacing-tech.html


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## Sydenstricker Landscaping (Dec 17, 2006)

I got 3500 t-bars on the front of my 00 2500. Cranked the bars four times too. I get barely an inch of drop with a 7.5 poly and wings. That is no timbrens either. Better t-bars and the cognito kit will get it done for you


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Mark13;574265 said:


> What would be the normal code for the bars on a 98 k1500 with the 6200 gvwr? Mine say GH on them.


There were a few bar selections used on the OBS 1/2 tons similar to yours Mark, and your GH bars are one of them. But they're also one of the heaviest that GM used on a truck under 7200 GVWR (that I'm aware of).

Other common bars were the "GF" and "GG" bars with a capacity of 5826 and 6790 max tq. respectably. And, for example your GH bars are rated higher than both of those, at 7161 max tq.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

woofy315;574273 said:


> could i do ford keys with new tbars?


Sure you can do both. Heavier bars will help with weight carrying capability and the keys will add height. Will also lose the comfy 1/2 ton ride.

Ford p/n for the keys is: XL3Z5B328CA Should be around $25-$30 each.


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

I got timbrens on my 04 2500 HD with the 7.5 Poly it drops maybe a quarter of an inch. huge improvement. I Cranked the T bars this summer a few turns and raised the front an inch. Put 5000# firestone airbags on the back. Have not put the plow on since I cranked bars, but we will see come this fall. the Airbags level the ride great when loaded down with soil and they only have 30 PSI in them right now. Will crank it up to 60 PSI come winter with the v box and salt. Truck will look nice and level. Well that is the plan.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

mayhem;574308 said:


> Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but timbrens won't do much for front end sag until your suspension dips enough to bring them into contact...they're not so much helper springs as they are enhanced bump stops. I don't have a set myself, but thats the impression I've gotten.


 Yes and no. The Tims do act as somewhat of a progressive "bump stop" (just as the stock jounce bumpers do) but the also act as a "helper spring" as the Tims when they're normally installed and at ride height are already in slight contact with the lower control arm, or at least they should be. If they're not, due to a T-bar adjustment or whatever reason you want to shim them down until they are. This will give max benefit that your installing them for in the first place, manly load capacity...and the added benifit is increased stability.



mayhem;574308 said:


> Anyone have a ballpark range for a set of t-bars and whatever other parts are commonly required?


 All you need is the T-bars themselves. Look for a late model wreak in a salvage yard rather than purchasing new from the dealer. 1/2 the money or less...

And with your 8 MM1 I'd recommend running the "GL" code T-bars.


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## Midwest BuildIt Inc (Nov 14, 2004)

Oh...the joys of owning a chevy........

sorry coulnt help myself...:waving:


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## woofy315 (Aug 8, 2008)

^ lol

congnito and 2500hd t-bars sounds like a plan to me,i'll need to do a block out back? to keep it level


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## ABES (Jun 10, 2007)

Not trying to jack this thread but B&B what are GK bars rated for? My tags are almost faded away but im preety sure it says GK on them.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

woofy315;574446 said:


> ^ lol
> 
> congnito and 2500hd t-bars sounds like a plan to me,i'll need to do a block out back? to keep it level


Do the front and then see if you need blocks.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

ABES;574452 said:


> Not trying to jack this thread but B&B what are GK bars rated for? My tags are almost faded away but im preety sure it says GK on them.


The GK's are rated at 8615 max tq. Third highest of them all.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

JD Dave;574455 said:


> Do the front and then see if you need blocks.


Absolutely.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

B&B;574398 said:


> Yes and no. The Tims do act as somewhat of a progressive "bump stop" (just as the stock jounce bumpers do) but the also act as a "helper spring" as the Tims when they're normally installed and at ride height are already in slight contact with the lower control arm, or at least they should be. If they're not, due to a T-bar adjustment or whatever reason you want to shim them down until they are. This will give max benefit that your installing them for in the first place, manly load capacity...and the added benifit is increased stability.
> 
> All you need is the T-bars themselves. Look for a late model wreak in a salvage yard rather than purchasing new from the dealer. 1/2 the money or less...
> 
> And with your 8 MM1 I'd recommend running the "GL" code T-bars.


So a set of timbrens, properly installed, may be all thats necessary for my application? Given that my front end does not hit the bump stops now...my bar's probably aren't totally shot, they're just showing their age I think and losing some of their spring return. A set of timbrens should not only help decrease the sage when I carry the plow, but also when I;m not carrying anything?

edit: Recommended place to buy a front end set? Any good deals going on?


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## Kevin Kendrick (May 3, 2007)

I just received a postcard in the mail and it reminded me of this thread. I checked out the website and thought I would pass it along. http://www.truxxx.com/


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

mayhem;574802 said:


> So a set of timbrens, properly installed, may be all thats necessary for my application?


 Correct, if they're shimmed down in order to touch the LCA at ride height if needed as you want the inner portion of the Tim's slightly compressed when the truck is at unloaded ride height. Large flat washers make good shims.



mayhem;574802 said:


> Given that my front end does not hit the bump stops now...my bar's probably aren't totally shot, they're just showing their age I think and losing some of their spring return. A set of timbrens should not only help decrease the sage when I carry the plow, but also when I;m not carrying anything?


 Yes and no, the T-bars should be more than capable of supporting the truck unloaded without the help of the Tims. You shouldn't use the Tims as a "crutch" to raise the ride height. If it needs raised, turn the T-bar adjustment up first to get the truck level, and then add the Tims, and then shim them as necessary like previously described. You'll be pleasantly surprised at the carrying capacity difference.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

And if the bars are already cranked (though not maxed out) and the front end is still saggy, would that indicate new bars?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

mayhem;574881 said:


> And if the bars are already cranked (though not maxed out) and the front end is still saggy, would that indicate new bars?


Depends on what your basing this settling on. I'm sure your well aware that it can take many turns just to get these trucks up off the ground from stock to begin with. So if your using that initial adjustment as your basis to the T-bars being weak, they may not be as worn as thought.

But on the other hand if it's noticeably settled in the period since you adjusted them, then yes it's possible they've lost some tension...T-bars are similar to coils or leafs in that they will lose their supporting capacity with age.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

Is there a good way to judge this? I can provide photos of the truck's stance and the adjuster bolt heads if its of use.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

mayhem;574885 said:


> Is there a good way to judge this? I can provide photos of the truck's stance and the adjuster bolt heads if its of use.


With a clear close up pic of the adjuster bolts and the trucks stance, as well as the T-bar codes the truck is equipped with I'd be able to give you an accurate idea.

Did you adjust the T-bars yourself since owning the truck? If so, when? Right after purchase or recently?


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

I'll get some photos tomorrow, got a load of wood in the back now so it wouldn't be as accurate as possible. If you think that won't affect it much I'll shoot some pics today.

Are the bar codes stamped on the bars or are they RPO codes in the glovebox? If they're on the bars, where exactly? Sorry if you covered this earlier.

I adjusted the bars myself the year I put my plow on it (coincidentally the same year I bought the truck). Late 2006 I cranked them 3 full turns, which gave me about 3/4 inch I think. I crawled under there the other day and I've probably got another 3-6 full turns before one bolt or the other is maxed out so I stopped at that point, not wanting to speed the wear on my ball joints or anything else expensive, or even expensive sounding.

Thanks for the help.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

mayhem;574895 said:


> I'll get some photos tomorrow, got a load of wood in the back now so it wouldn't be as accurate as possible. If you think that won't affect it much I'll shoot some pics today.
> 
> Are the bar codes stamped on the bars or are they RPO codes in the glovebox? If they're on the bars, where exactly? Sorry if you covered this earlier.
> 
> ...


Need pix of the truck unloaded in order to be accurate.

The T-bar codes would have originally been on a colored decal wrapped around each bar. Many times those are long gone on an older truck but check there first.

The bars are also stamped directly on their ends if you look close enough. Look through from the front of the LCA into the T-bar pocket in the LCA. You should be able to see the end of the bar and the code stamped there. There usually stamped at the rear as well but not all trucks have an access hole punched in the cross member directly behind the bar.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

the joys of making a half ton a plowing machine.
bri makes mental note to remember this thread exists for when its his turn to replace tbars.
good .thread.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

bribrius;575072 said:


> good .thread.


That happens from time to time.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

B&B;575174 said:


> That happens from time to time.


which bars do i have. which bars should i get. what do they costs
2000 silver with the 3925 front end. (i think)
i will email this to myself.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

bribrius;575195 said:


> which bars do i have.


Need to look on the bars themselves. Only way to positively identify them.


bribrius;575195 said:


> Which bars should i get?


Have to see whats on it now first.


bribrius;575195 said:


> What do they costs?


About $175.00 each new from the dealer.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

B&B;575225 said:


> Need to look on the bars themselves. Only way to positively identify them.
> Have to see whats on it now first.
> About $175.00 each new from the dealer.


my truck has been undercoated with rhino liner base. if it was a sticker it is long since covered.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

bribrius;575231 said:


> my truck has been undercoated with rhino liner base. if it was a sticker it is long since covered.


See post #38 Bri.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

B&B;575236 said:


> See post #38 Bri.


VG?

Thats what it looks like is on the end


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

bribrius;575389 said:


> VG?
> 
> Thats what it looks like is on the end


Nope, no "VG"

Has to be:

XK
XL
XM
YF
YH
GG
GK
GL
XG
XK
YB
YT
GC
GF
GH


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

B&B;575396 said:


> Nope, no "VG"
> 
> Has to be:
> 
> ...


 says vg looks like


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Did some rather in depth checking and the VG suffix code is legit Bri, seems its been superseded to the current "XL" code T-bar (4626 max tq) at some point. Had to be years ago...

And in that case you have a good deal of improvement if you decide to upgrade.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

B&B;575447 said:


> Did some rather in depth checking and the VG suffix code is legit Bri, seems its been superseded to the current "XL" code T-bar (4626 max tq) at some point. Had to be years ago...
> 
> And in that case you have a good deal of improvement if you decide to upgrade.


and here i thought they were off a dodge dart or charger

what does the 270 mean?

here is the pics of the other side. UX


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

bribrius;575499 said:


> and here i thought they were off a dodge dart or charger
> 
> what does the 270 mean?


 A Dart or Charger LOL....sag a little does it?

To the best of my knowledge the three digit # is a forging/manufacture number. Isn't important to the application. Code letters are what identify them.

Swap a set of GL bars in it. It'll hold your plow just fine then. :salute:


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

Sorry for the dealy, here is what I've got.

I was unbale to get the code off the end of the bars, but they do still have yellow wraps on them and the door stickers lists the 4410 GAWR front axle rating. I've included photos of the following items, exterior shots of both sides and the front end, closeups of each bolt (driver's side is blurry) and one shot of the passenger side bar showing the yellow wrap and if you can get a code off the end of the bar, great. The bolt heads were turned three full turns the fall I bought the truck, it had about 91k on the odometer at the time and it now has 113k. I have never bottomed out the front end, even on a bumpy road with the plow on, but I am concerned that its wearing on the bars and that it just doesn't look right...if I load up the rear end it does go more or less level, but I'd prefer to have more of a level ride height when empty, but I'll choose lengthened parts life over looks any day of the week.

If I don't need new bars then great, since its a rasonably big job and I'm short on time to do it, a set of timbrens is also fairly expensiv, but it if will help my ride and ride height and assist with the plow then I'll put a set in and be done with it. My big concern of course is to establish if I need new bars or not.

Thanks.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

Max photos reached, here are the rest. I also managed to locate a couple other photos of the truck with the plow on and raised right after I got it mounted up but before I turned the t-bars (no newer pics with it mounte I'm afraid) and one phto I took when I bought it from the dealer to give a perspective on the front end height.

edit: It apparently didn't like mypic with the plow on it.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

B&B;575592 said:


> A Dart or Charger LOL....sag a little does it?
> 
> To the best of my knowledge the three digit # is a forging/manufacture number. Isn't important to the application. Code letters are what identify them.
> 
> Swap a set of GL bars in it. It'll hold your plow just fine then. :salute:


actually it holds the plow okay. timbrens up front and six hundred or so lbs. out back shes good to go.
im putting this on my to do someday list unless u think i should be concerned.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

here it is


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Looks just fine judging by the pix Bri. If your currently happy with it, don't change a thing.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

B&B;575933 said:


> Looks just fine judging by the pix Bri. If your currently happy with it, don't change a thing.


not sure if happy would be the word but i put it through a lot for what it is and it kept up last season.

i must admit a little more ground clearance would be nice so i dont have to climb under it and pull the snow out that is packed in the undercarriage.

three more inches would help, we get somewhat deep snow around here


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

bribrius;575943 said:


> not sure if happy would be the word but i put it through a lot for what it is and it kept up last season.
> 
> i must admit a little more ground clearance would be nice.
> 
> three more inches would help, we get somewhat deep snow around here


Different T-bars, possibly a set of re-indexed torsion keys and a small lift block in the rear would bring it up approx 2".


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

bribrius;575943 said:


> three more inches would help


At least your honest.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

B&B, any advice?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

mayhem;576895 said:


> B&B, any advice?


You didn't get the PM I sent yesterday mayhem?


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## tls22 (Sep 30, 2007)

bribrius;575943 said:


> not sure if happy would be the word but i put it through a lot for what it is and it kept up last season.
> 
> i
> three more inches would help, we get somewhat deep snow around here


You can never go wrong with 3 more inches!


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

B&B;576905 said:


> You didn't get the PM I sent yesterday mayhem?


Just got it. I need to turn my notification on i think.


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## woofy315 (Aug 8, 2008)

all this tbar,cranking and blocks.....grrr, who makes a 4 inch lift kit for our trucks the plow will pull it down one i bet,giving 3 inch's more clearence ,yeah that sounds nice.


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## woofy315 (Aug 8, 2008)

B&B;573997 said:


> How high it will go is dependent on how much travel you have to work with (from where it is now) in the front. You need to leave some droop travel or it'll grossly affect ride quality. Most 1/2 ton trucks will come up 2" in the front and still have enough gap between the UCA and the droop stop on the frame for a stock like ride quality.


its cranked to level right now,so your saying if i get the cognito kit i wont be able to go anymore because its alreaddy cranked? or what im kind of confused


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

woofy315;585488 said:


> its cranked to level right now,so your saying if i get the Cognito kit i wont be able to go anymore because its alreaddy cranked?


It depends entirely on how much ACTUAL travel is left in the suspension (between the UCA and the droop stop on the frame)...as well as how much travel is left in the current shocks, and what components your refering to purchasing. The shocks are an easy fix, either purchase longer ones or a shock extension bracket (Cognito has them).

On the 1/2 tons, after you have them level there usually isn't much travel left in the suspension before it does contact the droop stop...but to gain travel all you need to do is purchase the replacement Cogntio upper control arm kit. The Cognio arms will add the needed travel to increase the ride height since they relocate the stop on the control arm that contacts the droop stop tab on the frame, thus allowing the suspension more range of movement...while at the same time lessoning the sever angle on the upper ball joint. The suspension components (lower ball joint, CV's) in these trucks will actual cope with more range of movement than the original setup will allow.

If you have very little or no adjustment left with the stock T-bar keys then it's time to order a set of replacement keys or stiffer T-bars, or both if you want height as well as an increase in carrying capacity.


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## woofy315 (Aug 8, 2008)

so as far as a list goes,so far i have

cognito kit
he replacement Cogntio upper control arm kit
maybe the 2500hd keys and bars
then whatever inch block i need in the rear to get level? sound right?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

woofy315;586102 said:


> so as far as a list goes,so far i have
> 
> cognito kit
> he replacement Cogntio upper control arm kit
> ...


The Cognito kit would just be the keys and a set of replacement shocks or shock extension brackets (your choice at order time).

The control arms would be a second "kit". And then you would run different T-bars if you decide to.

And then yes, a rear block and U-bolt kit to level it up in the rear.


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## woofy315 (Aug 8, 2008)

ok,im slowly understanding here,thanks a ton for you help man,ive been miffed as to what to do till now.

so, cognito keys and longer shocks.
the control arm kit and then 2500 bars? i guess?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

woofy315;586611 said:


> So, cognito keys and longer shocks, the control arm kit, and then 2500 bars? i guess?


You've got it now.


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## woofy315 (Aug 8, 2008)

wahoo! now i need to find a set of 33's to stuff under there and a few more goodies, thanks a ton man.


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