# Concrete questions?



## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Sorry if this is in the wrong place but...

I am going to pave my salt bin this year and decided to use concrete. My question is how thick should it be poured.

I just met with a friend of a friend who pours alot of concrete on the side and got a quote for $1700 for a 18x24 pad. I don't need a base as I already have one, and the pile is already formed on 3 sides by mafia blocks. Does that price sound right to you? I checked last week and concrete is $74 a yard delivered.

Thanks for the help Bossman


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

Asphalt would be a better choice I think, new, not long cured concrete will probably spall and turn to crap pretty quick, add scraping with a machine and it's bad, besides by my math it's only 8 yds, thats 600 bucks, he's gonna nail you 1100 bucks to pour and finish thats small space??? Doesn't seem like a real friendly price for a job where I'm sure he can have a truck back right up to the work area and he only has to form one edge........


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## PabstBlueRibbon (May 11, 2010)

It's way to late to pour concrete and have salt sit on it. You need minimum of a year for it to cure. If you put salt on it it eats the concrete and leaves terrible pits.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

I think that's a fairly good chunk of cash for a "friend" to be charging for something this simple. I'd suggest snapping lines on your mafia block on teh 3 sides, set the front form, and pour yourself. You don't need anything too fancy here.

Call your local ready-mix plant, tell tham exactly what you're trying to do, see what they suggest for a good mix to hold it's own against the salt, and post here with any questions.

IMO, I'd opt for a mix with probably 20-25% Flyash, air, maybe evven some mid-range water reducer. Cover the slab shortly after finishing it so it cures slowly for a few days, let it air out for 30+ days, and put 2-3 apps. of a Siloxane sealer on it.

Maybe Matson will show up & give you some crazy mix design that will take a quad load of salt in a few days.....................


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

jomama45;1057628 said:


> I think that's a fairly good chunk of cash for a "friend" to be charging for something this simple. I'd suggest snapping lines on your mafia block on teh 3 sides, set the front form, and pour yourself. You don't need anything too fancy here.
> 
> Call your local ready-mix plant, tell tham exactly what you're trying to do, see what they suggest for a good mix to hold it's own against the salt, and post here with any questions.
> 
> ...


What do you need me for Joe...Looks like a good mix....I would tell them to add some Fiber Mech to the mix.....Put a little pitch to that slab.Back to front for run off and your good to go.....You have plenty of time....the 2-3 apps of sealer is key.....:salute:


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Matson Snow;1057634 said:


> What do you need me for Joe...Looks like a good mix....I would tell them to add some Fiber Mech to the mix.....Put a little pitch to that slab.Back to front for run off and your good to go.....You have plenty of time....the 2-3 apps of sealer is key.....:salute:


Darn, you'r efast Todd. You must be lurking, or searchign your name on a daily basis...... :laughing:


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

forestfireguy;1057563 said:


> Asphalt would be a better choice I think, new, not long cured concrete will probably spall and turn to crap pretty quick, add scraping with a machine and it's bad, besides by my math it's only 8 yds, thats 600 bucks, he's gonna nail you 1100 bucks to pour and finish thats small space??? Doesn't seem like a real friendly price for a job where I'm sure he can have a truck back right up to the work area and he only has to form one edge........


Concrete spalls and turns crappy for a couple of reasons.....A Crappy mix or A Crappy Finisher,......A properly mixed and finished slab will out last asphalt any day for this application.....JMO:waving:


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

jomama45;1057639 said:


> Darn, you'r efast Todd. You must be lurking, or searchign your name on a daily basis...... :laughing:


My name is NOT Mark Oomkes.....:laughing::laughing:..No lurking or Trolling...Just in the right place at the right time....


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Matson Snow;1057644 said:


> My name is NOT Mark Oomkes.....:laughing::laughing:..No lurking or Trolling...Just in the right place at the right time....


Nice to hear from you Todd, it's been a while. Plus, I can't let you get the last word in, you've cought up to my post count in no time........ :laughing:

Hope all is weel with you this summer.......


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

jomama45;1057648 said:


> Nice to hear from you Todd, it's been a while. Plus, I can't let you get the last word in, you've cought up to my post count in no time........ :laughing:
> 
> Hope all is weel with you this summer.......


Last Word...Post #632.........:laughing:


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Matson Snow;1057654 said:


> Last Word...Post #632.........:laughing:


Time for you to log out for today Todd, it's gotta be your bedtime................ :laughing:

Oh, look over there......................................... FREE BEER TODD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

jomama45;1057657 said:


> Time for you to log out for today Todd, it's gotta be your bedtime................ :laughing:
> 
> Oh, look over there......................................... FREE BEER TODD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:laughing::laughing:...It is time for bed....3am wake up...Pouring a 500 yard Bridge Deck .starting at 4........Oh look .....Post #633.....


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Matson Snow;1057662 said:


> :laughing::laughing:...It is time for bed....3am wake up...Pouring a 500 yard Bridge Deck .starting at 4........Oh look .....Post #633.....


Glad to hear it, I've only got to pour 8-9 yards tommorrow. Sometime, I'll have to talk to you about a 520+ yd. machine base pour we did last year.

Bossman, sorry for being the culprit in taking this off track.

As for the thickness, it depends on what you're loading and piling with. I'd probably opt for 6" thickness in case you end up with a wheel loader some day. If you have any more questions along the way, fire away.............


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

Hey guys,

I'm no concrete expert, just sharing my expeirience. I've seen well cured unsealed concrete never wear when salt is stored or used on it. New concrete on the other hand I've seen bad bad things....... That price still seems a bit high to be friendly though......


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

forestfireguy;1057686 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm no concrete expert, just sharing my expeirience. I've seen well cured unsealed concrete never wear when salt is stored or used on it. New concrete on the other hand I've seen bad bad things....... That price still seems a bit high to be friendly though......


No sweat, I agree with what you're saying. We did the poured walls for my old plow "boss" years ago, and he went with an asphalt floor for similar reasons. Unfortunately, it didn't hold up to his 2.5-3 yard loaders, because the base under it stayed wet through-ut the winter & has rutted fairly bad.

As for the price, I agree as well, but think the quote for just the concrete was cheap, probably $20 a yard cheaper than I pay here!!!


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Seems Jomama & Matson covered it for you.....I will add that some sort of wire mesh or rebar is always good to have in outside slabs. I also think that the fiber mesh is a good idea, simply for extra "surface strength".

$74/yd delivered is cheap for 4000psi white rock mix...which is your standard exterior mix for outside resi/small commercial work round here. But that might not be what you got quoted for?..?..?


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## 2005_Sierra (Aug 7, 2009)

you want a minimum of a 4000 PSI concrete for ANY exterior flat work. and you are also going to want to give it a solid 27 days to properly cure before you use any type of sealer.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Well now you guys got me thinking I could do this on our own.  


I am not sure how I want to handle the front of this slab. I figured 6" thick and it already has a great back to front picth and even a little sloap towards the front right corner.

My question is do I form it up so its flat on the front end and build up the front step with crushed limestone (so when I run over it with the backhoe I don't crumble the edge) or do I dig down and create some sort of transition from gravel lot to concrete salt pad?

Also I called my local rental house and they rent a "bull float" and some sort of other larger float. IDK?? 

Since we're not taking this thing to the fair, do you pros think this ploy jockey can finish this pad good enough to make it last a few years?

Also I've got a chop saw so if i need to cut expansion joints I can.

BTW Matson, 500 yds of concrete!! You had better have a few 

Thanks for all the help Bossman


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## Brucester1 (Aug 12, 2009)

*concrete*

if you are not experienced it may be a wise idea to hire it done. get a few different bids.after 18 years of driving a redi-mix truck i have seen alot of people with good intentions and little know how lose it. cement can get away from you quickly if you don't know what you are doing. good luck.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Bossman 92;1057874 said:


> Well now you guys got me thinking I could do this on our own.
> 
> I am not sure how I want to handle the front of this slab. I figured 6" thick and it already has a great back to front picth and even a little sloap towards the front right corner.
> 
> ...


Anything is possible...You need Jomama to chim in and give you tips on finishing...I supply the concrete...I have a limited knowledge on finishing...I can do it..But not like the Pros....The one thing i have learned over the years in DIY concrete is you can never have enough people to help out..The more the better.....


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## ADBsnowremoval (Aug 16, 2009)

I dont usually chime in, but on this i have too. I am in the concrete industry and have been in business for 39 years. The price of 1700 is a very fair price. He has overhead,just like the rest, and nobody works for free. If your slab is 18 x 24 then you are looking at 432 square feet, at 1,700 you are looking at less than $4.00 a square foot; very fair. You can price out asphalt, but I am sure they will be around 1,200-1,600 for a good 3" of blacktop. Concrete poured now, will kinda be a crap shoot, just make sure that you give it a couple of coats of sealer. Also do not pour your mixture to wet, and make sure that they use a chert free stone mixture; (less likely to have pop-outs from the stone)


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Well his "very fair" price doesn't seem all that great to me. He told me he takes the price of the concrete and doubles it. I got no problem with that because everyone has to make a profit.... right? Well he explained how he just trys to work an honest day for an honest days wages, and that's fine cause concrete work aint easy. But if I can save $1100 by pouring my own pad then I think I will give it a shot.

By the way, I think we both know that pouring an 18' x 24' pad, with a base and already formed on 3 sides is somthing that both you and he could do in your sleep. Also I got a quote last week for 5" of ashpalt for less than half of what I was quoted for concrete.

Thanks Bossman


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## ADBsnowremoval (Aug 16, 2009)

well it sounds like you have everything under control. good luck to you.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Bossman 92;1057874 said:


> Well now you guys got me thinking I could do this on our own.
> 
> That "smilie" was introduced here in honor of B&B, maybe you can get him to help out with the pour. Just give me a minute, I'll find his number, I can onlly remember the last 4 digits : -5309................. :laughing:
> 
> ...


I think you can do this IF you're willing to spend a little time researching, as well as investing some sweat equity. Don't get the "brainstorm" that you can suddenly contract for finished concrete flatwork for custoers though. The only reason I'd even recommend you looking into DIY on this is because it's merely a "utility" pad where function is far more important than asthetics.

As for the price, I'll admit that I read the OP incorrectly. I thought this guy was your direct friend. Either way, having an idea of what the market is like in most of OH, as well as the fact that you can get concrete dirt cheap, I'd still stand to think that you can put down an acceptable pad and sve a substantial amount of money.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Thanks for the help jomama. As far as doing concrete work in the future for anyone else, there's no way. As far as help goes I've got a couple buddies who will be able to help with the pour, one of which worked for a local concrete company for a few years.

This shouldn't be a big deal, but I need to learn a few things first. Given the fact that this is just a salt pad and doesn't have to be perfect I think I want to give it a shot.


Again thanks for the help, i am sure I will have more questions though.

Bossman


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Jomama...Are you saying i drink Alot of Beer....Hmmm..I took a picture of my living room after last night........


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

jomama has provided you with some good info.....and yes, i thnk you and a couple buddies(that know at least a little bout concrete) can handle this. 

Something you will want to do is put a grade stake (or short rebar) in the dead center, giving you a reference for height. Top of stake will be top of concrete. This will give you (4) 9x12 sections to deal with while grading and pouring. Good Luck.


P.S. Dont forget to drive down/pull out the grade stake when you get to it while pouring(half way through pour).


P.P.S That was one hell of a beeramid Matson.


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

Good advice here IMO.

I would tell the supplier that you will have an engineer Co. testing for the air content and cylinder test too. Some suppliers will send left overs or rejected product from another job if they think your a DYI or fly by night outfit.....Just a suggestion, you don't really need one there but it will lower the likelihood of getting an inferior mix....Don't over finish either.

Good luck.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Bajak;1059079 said:


> Good advice here IMO.
> 
> I would tell the supplier that you will have an engineer Co. testing for the air content and cylinder test too. Some suppliers will send left overs or rejected product from another job if they think your a DYI or fly by night outfit.....Just a suggestion, you don't really need one there but it will lower the likelihood of getting an inferior mix....Don't over finish either.
> 
> Good luck.


Very Expensive to have testing done on cylinders and already placed concrete....Ask the supplier for batch weights with the load...Most if not all Redi-mix suppliers now a days do not use left overs....The only time we used left overs was if it was the same mix....That practice stopped many years ago....


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## turn54 (Jan 7, 2010)

as a ready mix supplier using leftovers is a bad idea. Even if it is the same mix the load gets hot. The diy'er will take longer to get the truck unloaded because the mix is "setting-off" and henceforthe theinside of drum of the truck gets coated. Costly to us way more than trying to make a buck on the leftovers. On the flip side experienced guys like snocrete might have me leave just a bit in so he can get home to momma earlier.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

turn54;1059868 said:


> as a ready mix supplier using leftovers is a bad idea. Even if it is the same mix the load gets hot. The diy'er will take longer to get the truck unloaded because the mix is "setting-off" and henceforthe theinside of drum of the truck gets coated. Costly to us way more than trying to make a buck on the leftovers. On the flip side experienced guys like snocrete might have me leave just a bit in so he can get home to momma earlier.


......:waving:


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Well here's where we are at so far. I have a couple guys who are going to help with the pour, one who has a little knowledge, and another guy (dad owns a construction company) has poured over 1000 yds, plus myself and another guy.

I wrote down all the info you guys provided me with and should be ready to pour sometime next week.

BTW. i'll be sure to post pics as we go.

Thanks Bossman


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Bossman 92;1059923 said:


> Well here's where we are at so far. I have a couple guys who are going to help with the pour, one who has a little knowledge, and another guy (dad owns a construction company) has poured over 1000 yds, plus myself and another guy.
> 
> I wrote down all the info you guys provided me with and should be ready to pour sometime next week.
> 
> ...


Sounds like your off to a good start....Try to find a couple more bodys to help with the grunt work...Never can have enough bodys...Good Luck...:salute:


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Matson Snow;1058196 said:


> Jomama...Are you saying i drink Alot of Beer....Hmmm..I took a picture of my living room after last night........


That's not beer....that's water!


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## hummer81 (Feb 1, 2010)

snocrete;1057697 said:


> Seems Jomama & Matson covered it for you.....I will add that some sort of wire mesh or rebar is always good to have in outside slabs. I also think that the fiber mesh is a good idea, simply for extra "surface strength".
> 
> $74/yd delivered is cheap for 4000psi white rock mix...which is your standard exterior mix for outside resi/small commercial work round here. But that might not be what you got quoted for?..?..?


 Just for future use.. Shouldn't use any metal reinforcement unless its coated for a salt storage. "surface strengths" come from surface hardeners or sealer, quality of finish and quality of product. Fibers will just make a slab more poreses . Personally I would finish a salt bin as tight as possible and place a penetrating cure and seal within 12 hours. reapply twice and wait a year before adding salt. Even better if money isn't an option i would not apply sealer and epoxy the floor with a high end comm, grade product. 6 inches min with no reinforcement. The longer the concrete cures the less moisture it desires. Penetrating moisture with salt equals concrete that will not last.


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