# Soft brakes



## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

Ok i have a 96 k2500. When i step on brakes to stoP they go to the floor and the brake light goes on. When i try to bleed them (truck off) the peddle stiffens up like it should. As soon as the truck is running the peddle goes right back to the floor. I am not losing any fluid. Of i had to guess i would think maybe the master cylinder, but am not sure. Before i spend money i thought i would see if anyone else can give me any ideas so i can get this fixed, as it is a little annoying. Thqnks in advance.


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

Take out ABS fuse (underhood) and then try again


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

If the truck is off and you step on the pedal and hold it,,,does the pedal move slowly to the floor????
If no,,,,then im not thinking master. 
I would ck the front calpiers to see if the slides are frozen. (common prob.)


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## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

Mcw i will try that next time i have a chance. Have to talk the wife into helping, i used up my favors when she helped bleed brakes on my mustang. 

Dieselss, i will have to try and hold it down, but i dont think it peddle goes to the floor. Calipers are a year old, and i just put new pads and rotors on it a few months ago, and slides were good.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok that rules out the fronts. Now this sucks but did you look at the tears? I had the same truck and hated doing rear brakes. How are the flex lines?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Just for spits and shiggles, double ck the ft pads. Just make sure pads aren't cocked in the calipers.


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## nrplowguy (Apr 15, 2008)

trucks in that age time up to 2002 if they have soft brakes pull the ABS fuse and let it ride. I have seen many of these like this and that was the fix only down side is you dont have ABS anymore, you dont want to know what it will take to get a new abs block up front lots o money!!!!


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## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

dieselss;1421606 said:


> Ok that rules out the fronts. Now this sucks but did you look at the tears? I had the same truck and hated doing rear brakes. How are the flex lines?


I replaced those also. New ines, cylinders, everything inside the drums including the drums are new. Flex lines in the front looked good, and adjusted rear, seamed a little better for a while.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

i would go with master, seems like when there is vaccum it it just blowing the fluid past the seal's!


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## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

nrplowguy;1421612 said:


> trucks in that age time up to 2002 if they have soft brakes pull the ABS fuse and let it ride. I have seen many of these like this and that was the fix only down side is you dont have ABS anymore, you dont want to know what it will take to get a new abs block up front lots o money!!!!


Just pull the fuse? Had a 2000 that had a faulty ABS, luckily was covered on my extended warrenty, and i remember seeing what it would have cose me to replace.


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## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

I had exactly the same symptoms when I had a pinhole leak in a steel brake line.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok so lines are good. Drums are good....just triple ck the fronts......but I would be leaning towards the abs. If the brakes don't bleed down with truck off...that rules out master....pull the fuse as mentioned and see what happens


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

^^^^^ and if it works, cuss and throw fuse very far cause it wont be needed!:laughing:


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Lol...... Far far away


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## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

Thanks for the help, i pulled the fuse last night, and it was really good for a bit, then it started to get worse again. I guess it is time to check the lines, and make sure there is not a hole somewhere. It does hold pressure when the truck is off. I guess back to the drawing board by checking the front calipers, and recheck the adjustment on the rear drums.


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

I'm not sure and someone else may be able to say for sure but you might need to bleed the ABS with a tech 2 as there may be air trapped in there. Personally though, i would keep the ABS fuse out and take the bulb for it out of the gage cluster...its downright dangerous driving around with those things activated when they are faulty.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

Is this a new problem? The calipers aren't on upside down are they?


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## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

mcwlandscaping;1422048 said:


> I'm not sure and someone else may be able to say for sure but you might need to bleed the ABS with a tech 2 as there may be air trapped in there.


+1



> Personally though, i would keep the ABS fuse out and take the bulb for it out of the gage cluster...its downright dangerous driving around with those things activated when they are faulty.


Meh, that's not the problem he's having. If he *was* having the common unwanted ABS activation problem (caused by a faulty, corroded, or mismounted wheel speed sensor) then I would agree, definitely defuse ABS until you fix it.


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## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

It is not a new problem, just getting worse. I don't think i have a bad line, as i have not noticed any fluid loss. That is something i have been watching. I noticed today that the seals where the resivor pops into seem really bad, but again does not show signs of leaking fluid in that are either. I have taken the ABS fuse out, and will not put it back in.

How would the caliper being upside down cause soft brakes? I will look into that though, as i am hoping to pull the wheels off over the weekend if the snow is not bad.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

fordmstng66;1422081 said:


> It is not a new problem, just getting worse. I don't think i have a bad line, as i have not noticed any fluid loss. That is something i have been watching. I noticed today that the seals where the resivor pops into seem really bad, but again does not show signs of leaking fluid in that are either. I have taken the ABS fuse out, and will not put it back in.
> 
> How would the caliper being upside down cause soft brakes? I will look into that though, as i am hoping to pull the wheels off over the weekend if the snow is not bad.


If the bleeder is not on the top side of the caliper it will not let all the air out...I have learned from experience LOL. If that is the case you would have the drivers and passenger reversed.


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## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

terrapro;1422104 said:


> If the bleeder is not on the top side of the caliper it will not let all the air out...I have learned from experience LOL. If that is the case you would have the drivers and passenger reversed.


Ok that makes sense, i would have never thought of that. I am hoping to look into it this weekend or next week.


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

Having a "hard" pedal when the engine is OFF is normal, especially if you have a hydraulic brake booster. Check to make sure the calipers arn't crossed (upside down) and also check the rear wheel cylinders for leaks. You may think you have an axle seal leaking if its bad enough. If you pump the pedal while its running does the brake pedal get hard again? That would be an indication of air in the system.


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## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

Plowtoy;1422489 said:


> Having a "hard" pedal when the engine is OFF is normal, especially if you have a hydraulic brake booster. Check to make sure the calipers arn't crossed (upside down) and also check the rear wheel cylinders for leaks. You may think you have an axle seal leaking if its bad enough. If you pump the pedal while its running does the brake pedal get hard again? That would be an indication of air in the system.


I will check the calipers to make sure they are not upside down. The rear cylinders are new and are not leqking. When the engine is running the brake pedal does not get hard at all. Someone did the calipers for me, i Have been trying to find a way to figure out if the calipers are not upside down.


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## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

fordmstng66;1422578 said:


> I will check the calipers to make sure they are not upside down. The rear cylinders are new and are not leqking. When the engine is running the brake pedal does not get hard at all. Someone did the calipers for me, i Have been trying to find a way to figure out if the calipers are not upside down.


To clarify: What he meant by hardening when the engine is running...if you *repeatedly* pump the pedal, does it go from the soft malfunction feel to a normal feel?

To tell if the calipers are upside-down, just look at them and find whether the bleeder is at the bottom or the top of the hydraulic section. Actual location varies but it's a slightly funny shaped bolt that's not holding anything on. It may be brass or it may be steel. It may have a small rubber boot on or over it. Here's one example that Google provided:









Also, regarding the pinhole leak I mentioned earlier: There fluid level in the reservoir did not drop visibly. The only way I found out was on a cool morning with the engine not running I stepped on the brake pedal and saw a slight mist coming out from under my hood (luckily the leak was there or who knows how long it would have taken for me to find). I looked under the hood while my wife stepped on the brake and saw where it was coming from.


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## Burbmeyer (Dec 25, 2009)

*Speedbleeders*

You can get some of these speedbleeders that allow a person to bleed into a container with a hose with one person.

If you end up bleeding again, bleed the master cylinder first, if you can on a abs system, then farthest to nearest wheel from master.

http://speedbleeder.com/

These have sealant/anti-seize on the thread for less air leak when bleeding.
You can put teflon tape on the ones you have also.

Master cylinder might have an internal leak.

I know of a 2000ish jeep that you could put calipers on the wrong side. That's the only one I've heard of.
Anybody know of others?

You can try tapping the calipers with a hammer to get air out as you bleed.


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## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

theholycow;1423180 said:


> To clarify: What he meant by hardening when the engine is running...if you *repeatedly* pump the pedal, does it go from the soft malfunction feel to a normal feel?
> 
> To tell if the calipers are upside-down, just look at them and find whether the bleeder is at the bottom or the top of the hydraulic section. Actual location varies but it's a slightly funny shaped bolt that's not holding anything on. It may be brass or it may be steel. It may have a small rubber boot on or over it. Here's one example that Google provided:
> 
> ...


Thanks, i know what the bleeder is, i was just going to try and look at a stock pic of a caliper installed on a 96 or so k2500, to see what it should look like, or other option is go to auto store and have them pull one offthe shelf for one side to look at it. When the motor is running, and i pump the brakes, no it does not got from a soft feel to a normal feel. Thank you. I plan on looking at it tomorrow, had to paint molding today to keep the wife off my back. :salute:


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## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

Ok i had a chance to look at the calipers, the bleeders are pointing up. If they are on the wrong side, then the bleeders will be pointing almost down to the ground.


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## fordmstng66 (Dec 27, 2005)

Thank you everyone for your help. From my research my calipers are not upside down, eventhough the bleeder is facing up. I am going to try and replace the master cylinder because the grommets the resivor attach into are in bad shape. When i get to this i will post what i find.


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