# Plows Mounted. Waiting For 2011-12 Winter. This is my company. IM 17



## Earthscapes 315 (Sep 4, 2011)

I have always loved working. but when time came to get my first car i bought a 2002 f350. and went 50/50 on a new boss straight blade. this allowed me to start off and these first driveways payed offmy truck payments and insurance for the whole year. not a bad deal. it also opened the doors to further expand my growing landscaping company outside my neighborhood.

my first snow season i had 11 driveways

i am now 17 years old. this is my second season have 7 fast track markets gas stations. 2 insurance buildings. one goverment office (3 parking lots for that building) and 15 hand picked driveways.

2011-2012 Season . Wish Me Luck
Thanks-Greg


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## PORTER 05 (Dec 28, 2005)

sick dump 350 450 or 550? what yr?


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## rstan2010 (Nov 25, 2009)

So are these all your trucks or just the 1st one???


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## havenlax18 (Dec 16, 2010)

Looks good nice to see younger guys like myself.


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

Nice to see other younger guys on here, I'm 20 here and have slowly expanded snow/lawn over the years. 20yrs old and am one yr away from finally being done with school, countin down the days lol


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## STIHL GUY (Sep 22, 2009)

do you have somebody working for you or is one truck just a backup?


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## SnoMan19 (Dec 17, 2011)

Wow if those are all your trucks and your 17. good work either way Thumbs Up


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## Ferrisdiesel (Dec 31, 2008)

Boy that looks like the carwash in Watertown NY I sued to go to!


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## Earthscapes 315 (Sep 4, 2011)

PORTER 05;1386460 said:


> sick dump 350 450 or 550? what yr?


f550 2008 4x4 xlt


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## Earthscapes 315 (Sep 4, 2011)

yea. i dropped out of high school. both trucks are mine. both deseil. and i have another worker run the black truck. the dump truck ia my baby


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## havenlax18 (Dec 16, 2010)

did you sell the first truck? how did you manage to drop out of high school? how do you cover your insurances? -Brandon


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## BMB Plowing (Nov 20, 2010)

Where in the 315 are you?
My question is where did you get the money to pay for these two new trucks and plows being only 17 years old, a high school drop out and only beginning your second year in business?
Where did you learn how to bid jobs, run a business and do all this stuff?
I'm not knocking it, it looks like your doing a great job, I'm just curious.


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## BPS#1 (Oct 16, 2011)

havenlax18;1386634 said:


> did you sell the first truck? how did you manage to drop out of high school? how do you cover your insurances? -Brandon


I'm wondering how he signed contracts on those properties.
I thought in order for a contract to be legal and valid the person signing has to be 18 or older.

Dropping out of high school even for work isn't going to impress any one.

Go get your GED!


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## havenlax18 (Dec 16, 2010)

It is defiantly possible, I don't doubt his abilities at all. There are numeral successful young guys out there and I respect everyone.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

looks good, i would get your ged, but other than that nice job!


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## icudoucme (Dec 3, 2008)

Give him a break. He's working and seems to be doing pretty well for himself.School isn't for everyone. Hard work and determination can get you farther then a piece of paper. He can get insurance it's just going to be sky high.


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## havenlax18 (Dec 16, 2010)

BPS#1;1386649 said:


> I'm wondering how he signed contracts on those properties.
> I thought in order for a contract to be legal and valid the person signing has to be 18 or older.
> 
> Dropping out of high school even for work isn't going to impress any one.
> ...


I see where you are coming from. Some contacts only require a Drivers license number along with background plus all your company information. When I started my father covered my insurances and liabilities in his name until I could take it over. That's why I am wondering for is covering everything? His dad?


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## fordtruck661 (Feb 26, 2011)

Nice to see some other young people just starting off like me. I have been working for about 7 years know. Started off with a John Deer tractor then went to a Polaris 450 Quad and just got myself a Ford f250 diesel this past summer and put a plow on that. This winter Im working with about 10 costumers would like to have more but have to be able to get to school in the morning.


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## Earthscapes 315 (Sep 4, 2011)

BMB Plowing;1386641 said:


> Where in the 315 are you?
> My question is where did you get the money to pay for these two new trucks and plows being only 17 years old, a high school drop out and only beginning your second year in business?
> Where did you learn how to bid jobs, run a business and do all this stuff?
> I'm not knocking it, it looks like your doing a great job, I'm just curious.


utica rome area. been mowing since 13. saved and fliped snow blowers mowers atvs **** like that and kept banking money. my bacl truck is paid in full. dump truck is payments will pay off in full on april 1st from contract money. i believe in no debt. pay all off first then whats left is my money. i am 4th generation drop out. great grandpa master wood worker. grandpa owned 7 bay service dept. for cars for 32 years. now owns a car wash. my father owns a car dealership. BUSINESS IS IN MY BLOOD. and to bid jobs i learn by listening to the old farts in the business. nothing is benifits me more then taking advice. and taking it one day at a time. taking risks at my age is the best . nothing to loose. no over head.


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## Earthscapes 315 (Sep 4, 2011)

BPS#1;1386649 said:


> I'm wondering how he signed contracts on those properties.
> I thought in order for a contract to be legal and valid the person signing has to be 18 or older.
> 
> Dropping out of high school even for work isn't going to impress any one.
> ...


i have insurance through another person till im 18 then it switches to me and everything under my name


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## ProLawn Outdoor (Dec 15, 2008)

What did your parents think of you dropping out? Have they kicked you out yet? Ive never understood it especially if you only have a year or two left, but I now it's your choice. Not doubting you just curious, who did you get to cosign your loan? I think it would be tough talking any of my family/friends into cosigning a loan, especially if I was dropping out. Trucks and plows look good though, love that VXT on the dump, that should move some snow. Hope you have a good winter.


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## exmark (Apr 24, 2007)

Both trucks look great. I am also young (20), always good to see young entrepreneurs. By the way what color's the dump?


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## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

Earthscapes 315;1386726 said:


> utica rome area. been mowing since 13. saved and fliped snow blowers mowers atvs **** like that and kept banking money. my bacl truck is paid in full. dump truck is payments will pay off in full on april 1st from contract money. i believe in no debt. pay all off first then whats left is my money. i am 4th generation drop out. great grandpa master wood worker. grandpa owned 7 bay service dept. for cars for 32 years. now owns a car wash. my father owns a car dealership. BUSINESS IS IN MY BLOOD. and to bid jobs i learn by listening to the old farts in the business. nothing is benifits me more then taking advice. and taking it one day at a time. taking risks at my age is the best . nothing to loose. no over head.


No overhead? How do you figure that with 3 trucks?


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

If you can be successful after dropping out more power to 'ya, wish you the best this winter. I know I am severely dreading school but see it as a necessary evil.


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## Earthscapes 315 (Sep 4, 2011)

mkwl;1387018 said:


> No overhead? How do you figure that with 3 trucks?


2 trucks. my black one with 9.6 v and my dump truck 9.2 v . 
the 2002 blue f-350 with 7.6 straight blade i sold when i the chance came to purchase the 2008 f550 dump truck.
"no Overhead" in the sense of no mortage of a house of business. i live at home
no food cost.
no medical insurance
i have no bills besides my dump truck payment.


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## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

Earthscapes 315;1387104 said:


> 2 trucks. my black one with 9.6 v and my dump truck 9.2 v .
> the 2002 blue f-350 with 7.6 straight blade i sold when i the chance came to purchase the 2008 f550 dump truck.
> "no Overhead" in the sense of no mortage of a house of business. i live at home
> no food cost.
> ...


So, I take it you don't pay insurance, maintenance, fuel, TAXES, workmans comp for your employee, ect?


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## Earthscapes 315 (Sep 4, 2011)

Metro Lawn;1387139 said:


> So, I take it you don't pay insurance, maintenance, fuel, TAXES, workmans comp for your employee, ect?


ok. i understand your side.but i dont consider my insurance over head( vehicle insurance) 
because of the fact its cheaper for me to insure a truck in NY than any car with my age bracket. i get all my trucks way behind book value because my father is a car dealer. so any manitance cost are refunded at the time of sale of the truck. fuel is spent no matter what. mind as well spend more and make a bigger profit. you have to cut coners because my age puts me into a rock and hard place. 
now maybe thats not the correct way of looking at it but this is how i break it down. and i pay any bills i have. then the profit i break up into precentage. 
so much percent goes to the follow
repairs
upgrades
manitenance
beer:laughing:
and the rest i invest into more equitment or toys


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

Metro Lawn;1387139 said:


> So, I take it you don't pay insurance, maintenance, fuel, TAXES, workmans comp for your employee, ect?


lol, do you even have to ask that question?


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## Earthscapes 315 (Sep 4, 2011)

THEGOLDPRO;1387146 said:


> lol, do you even have to ask that question?


well said haha


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## Stik208 (Oct 19, 2004)




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## plowingkid35 (Nov 16, 2010)

looks good man, i don't doubt you at all. Im 19 and got 5 trucks to work with and nice machines. I also got farming though too..... but still good luck keep it up


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## delong17 (Nov 29, 2009)

how much did your daddy sell you that dump for? How much did you pay after you traded in the 2002? Also, does he pay for all the maintenance on it too? Do you have a dealership credit card for gas?

I cant seem to think of anyone that is proud to be a high school drop out, let alone proclaiming that you come from a family of dropouts. Even if four generations of your family have been successful, is quitting something ever a correct thing to do?


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## bacwudzme (Sep 13, 2009)

Earthscapes, Nice looking fleet. I'm all about the young succeeding. I was young and got no respect either for work ethic or quality. I could give a rats a$$ about who carries your insurance or who signed the note on your 08

P.S.
This thread would have gone a whole different direction if you would have not posted your age. I don't care how old you are but its apparent that people do care, that's the best part about the Plowsite community look at how many people care about how you operate! You did shoot yourself in the foot when you said you dropped out of school once again I don't care to me that shows the sign of your age.

All in all very nice fleet and good luck this season!


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

So who co-signed with you on the dump truck? Nice trucks and good luck, but I have to say I'm a little skeptical on this one. 

Many teenagers on here have tried to pose with a "fleet" just to be called out and it ended up being Dad's business. Sometimes they even took pictures of trucks that belonged to strangers and called them theres. 

I don't think people under 18 can be sued, so how would that work for you if it were to happen? 

Like it was said, go get your degree or at least your GED.


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## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

Earthscapes 315;1386622 said:


> *yea. i dropped out of high school.* both trucks are mine. both deseil. and i have another worker run the black truck. the dump truck ia my baby


Never would have guessed it if you had not pointed it out. Your spelling, grammar and use of punctuation covers it well.


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## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

Earthscapes 315;1387104 said:


> 2 trucks. my black one with 9.6 v and my dump truck 9.2 v .
> the 2002 blue f-350 with 7.6 straight blade i sold when i the chance came to purchase the 2008 f550 dump truck.
> "no Overhead" in the sense of no mortage of a house of business. i live at home
> no food cost.
> ...


Okay..... but they're still overhead costs- anything you have in your inventory of equipment/trucks is going to be an overhead cost for you..... just due to the simple fact that they consume fuel, require maintenance and repairs (especially since they're fords :laughing..... all of those are overhead costs.... so is the remainder of your loan payment on your 550....

Because damn man- if you're running a snow management company with NO overhead.... I think we all need to follow your business model!


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## chevy$men (Oct 20, 2009)

A Brother i respect you sir:salute: im young to get paid keep up the good work ....you got it you on yo way to the top babypayup


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

chevy$men;1387424 said:


> A Brother i respect you sir:salute: im young to get paid keep up the good work ....you got it you on yo way to the top babypayup


.....


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

I quit high school as well. You should know that cuz my grammer sucks big time lol.

Im going to make 75k this year for my self. Next year im hoping for 85+.

Im not proud by any means. I did go back and get my GED about 6 years ago. Still never used that damn thing. Neverwill i guess.


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## NickT (Feb 1, 2011)

Good luck earthscapes


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## Yooper75 (Dec 30, 2010)

Guy's give the kid a break, he's out busting his ass making a living which is more than some members of our society are doing today. I finished High School but never finished college, battled undiagnosed ADD until this year(just turned 36 in August) and here I sit today 5-7 years away from being the president of our family business if I want it, own a nice home, drive a nice truck, and have a few toys. 

Earthscapes315 keep on working hard kid your on the right track. Good luck this season.


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## JBMiller616 (Dec 12, 2007)

Metro Lawn;1387139 said:


> So, I take it you don't pay insurance, maintenance, fuel, TAXES, workmans comp for your employee, ect?





delong17;1387229 said:


> how much did your daddy sell you that dump for? How much did you pay after you traded in the 2002? Also, does he pay for all the maintenance on it too? Do you have a dealership credit card for gas?





Banksy;1387249 said:


> So who co-signed with you on the dump truck?


While I don't agree with the OP's decision to drop out of High School to work, or a few of the other things he has said in this thread, what exactly makes you guys think it's your business how he affords the equipment he has? I don't know, maybe I'm the one in the wrong here, but I was brought up being told that it's rude to ask about, or stick your nose in other peoples finances.



Banksy;1387249 said:


> I don't think people under 18 can be sued, so how would that work for you if it were to happen?


Well, he did say that the insurance policy is in someone elses name, so I would hope that insurance policy is for an LLC that is also in someone elses name and he's listed as a driver under that policy along with the guy working with/for him. That way if he causes damage to someones property it's the LLC getting sued and not grandpa.


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## JLsDmax (Dec 23, 2008)

Congrats man, i hope i can buy a second truck sometime to get a few more accounts. As for your age and education, I dont agree with dropping out of high school, but honestly if you can be successful all the power to you. I graduated college last year w/ degree in business mgmt, i work for someone and the only business i own is my one truck and am a subcontractor with it, plus a few accounts on the side. Im 25 im hoping in a few years i can be on my own and have a viable business. You education doesnt make the entire business it is your work ethic and desire to succeed.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

Ok, fair enough JBMiller616. 

Nobody would question a 40 year old, but he made the point to say he is 17 and it's HIS company. He says that he doesn't have overhead because he lives at home and vehicle insurance is NOT overhead. I think we have that backwards. What company or government entity would sign a contract to do business with somebody under 18? That's cool that his family can get him trucks for much cheaper. I'd take advantage of that too and I guess that's who he makes payments too. I went to a dealer when I was 17 to look at a F350/plow combo and the sales staff laughed at me. They told me they could not do business with me because of my age. Hey, what did I know then? 

By all means, good luck to earthscapes! Nobody is trying to put him down or telling him to not go for it. 

We've just seen lots of kids who like to come on here to play and the teenagers with big fancy expensive trucks should expect some degree of skepticism and criticism.


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## Rusty Silence (Apr 17, 2010)

This country would be better off with more hardworking, business minded young dropouts and less college educated, entitlement minded, un-employed people. You're better off starting young with less education and more work ethic. They teach a lot in school but they don't teach people how to make a living. A GED or a high school diploma is just a piece of paper in my opinion _IF_ you own your own business. I would know. You can get your GED later... work hard and make money now if you can and you'll be way ahead of most college graduates in 10 years, I would guess.


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## toyotaplow (Jan 17, 2011)

My uncle is the smartest man I know and he dropped out of school in grade 8. My friends nephew graduated high school with a 98% and in real world situations he is about as smart as the wooden post my gate hangs from. School isn't for everyone and most of the things they teach you will never get used in the real world.

Congrats to the op for working hard to get himself started. A good work ethic and common sense will get you very far in life.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

Rusty Silence;1387546 said:


> This country would be better off with more hardworking, business minded young dropouts and less college educated, entitlement minded, un-employed people.


Darn right! The occupy whatever idiots have the exact opposite mind set that this young kid does. (as well as the rest of us on here)


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## Yooper75 (Dec 30, 2010)

My grandfather had a saying, "You can spend lots of money and go to school or you can attend the school of hard knocks. Take your pick because both are expensive."


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## touchdowntim91 (Dec 21, 2011)

i started when i was 11 mowing and shoveling. I am 20 now and everything you have is possible. but i will make alot more money with my 95 chevy dump 98gmc dump and 90 chevy pickup all with plows and spreaders that combined paid in cash less than $15,000 for. nice trucks are nice but sometimes its not how new they are. its more about uniform trucks ( ex. white trucks, red plow, red spreader ), that run good, and get the job done with less money put out which in turn creates more profit.


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## JBMiller616 (Dec 12, 2007)

Banksy;1387530 said:


> We've just seen lots of kids who like to come on here to play and the teenagers with big fancy expensive trucks should expect some degree of skepticism and criticism.


I get what you mean and I've seen it here too, as well as other forums I'm a member of. That's the beauty of the internet though. It allows dishonest and insecure people to be whoever they want. But I have a saying when it comes to people like that, and that is "it all comes out in the wash". Meaning if they are lying about one thing or another, eventually it will come to light, and when it does THEN you can rip them a new one, lol.


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## 87chevy (Mar 11, 2009)

delong17;1387229 said:


> how much did your daddy sell you that dump for? How much did you pay after you traded in the 2002? Also, does he pay for all the maintenance on it too? Do you have a dealership credit card for gas?
> 
> I cant seem to think of anyone that is proud to be a high school drop out, let alone proclaiming that you come from a family of dropouts. Even if four generations of your family have been successful, is quitting something ever a correct thing to do?


School isnt for everyone... Even though I'm going for something I enjoy I'd rather be working. All I do is spend money at school. Much rather be making it...

If this kid hadn't told you he's 17 you wouldnt be drilling him so bad. But I know. None of us know anything.

Nice rigs man, have a safe and productive winter.


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## buckhigh (Oct 21, 2008)

To the op Earthscapes 315; I graduated from both high school and college, and now almost 35 years old. I consider myself successful, but feel like I've waisted a good portion of my college and high school academic years. If I could have done it over again, I would have started my business during high school, and definitely passed on the piece of paper I've earned attending college. 

You do what makes you happy, and definitely don't let the jerkoff haters on here tell you otherwise. This is America, where if you put your "hard work" into it, the sky is the limit!

Good luck chasing your dreams, and please remember, do what makes you happy


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

chevy$men;1387424 said:


> A Brother i respect you sir:salute: im young to get paid keep up the good work ....you got it you on yo way to the top babypayup


lol just do us all a favor and stay in school a little bit longer before you decide to drop out. Focus on English class before you do decide to drop out.


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## havenlax18 (Dec 16, 2010)

touchdowntim91;1387574 said:


> i started when i was 11 mowing and shoveling. I am 20 now and everything you have is possible. but i will make alot more money with my 95 chevy dump 98gmc dump and 90 chevy pickup all with plows and spreaders that combined paid in cash less than $15,000 for. nice trucks are nice but sometimes its not how new they are. its more about uniform trucks ( ex. white trucks, red plow, red spreader ), that run good, and get the job done with less money put out which in turn creates more profit.


I agree that's what I try to do. It's a more professional image and puts you in front of the majority low ballers.


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## Earthscapes 315 (Sep 4, 2011)

negative comments or criticism, is a good thing. im not blowing smoke. both trucks are mine. i just needed a cosigner on the dump. because my contract money isn't all pulled in full until apirl 1st. im not proud to have a drop out status. i made stupid choices in school screwed off. and for it i decided not to go back. and 3 days later i got a letter from the district that i am expelled. not sure how that works but that's besides the fact. this is not "DADDY'S" business by any means. i have a some what good business mind and am very driven. not having schooling behind me is only looked down apon because of society's standards. 17 also means nothing but the fact i have a good head start im in the business young and can grow as big as i like. I WILL TAKE PHOTOS AND A CLIP OR TO OVER THE WINTER TO SHOW MY COMPANY IN PROGRESS. i love this industry and i am excited for a new season. ( if CNY gets any snow) . ANY OTHER QUESTIONS and or doubts just ask and i will answer to best of my ability.
thanks for the interest guys I TRULY VALUE AND ENJOY YOUR COMMENTs 
-Greg


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## Red Bull Junkie (Nov 24, 2009)

Great response. No point in trying to debate the keyboard jocks........I would suggest working on the grammar part though, it will help convey professionalism when dealing with clients or potential clients. Good luck and I hope we get some snow soon.


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## f250man (Jan 28, 2005)

Nice trucks and great job.


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## KL&M Snow Div. (Jan 2, 2009)

I like what I see man, I thought of dropping out myself, only reason I didn't do it was because my parents. Anyways, can't wait to see some more pics, and I gotta say this.....I woulda drove that 7.3 till the wheels fell off lol. Keep it up man


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## GLLLC (Jan 13, 2004)

Determination wins over education every time.


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## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

To all those guys that praise him:

It is all fine and good but you know when he says there is no overhead that means "I don't pay taxes or have liability insurance and workmans comp for my employee" Those of us that run legit know how expensive these things are not to mention maintenance, fuel, a building, ect. You won't praise him or someone just like him when they take your work away because they can do it cheaper by cutting corners and running outside the system. When they take your jobs and take food from your children's mouths, remember what you said. It is easy to get rid of them when they are small, don't let them grow into a cancer that kills us all.


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## 87chevy (Mar 11, 2009)

Nobodies praising Metro. All I'm saying is if you didn't know he was 17 you wouldn't have asked all the hard questions you did or critizing what he's done.


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

Metro Lawn;1388318 said:


> To all those guys that praise him:
> 
> It is all fine and good but you know when he says there is no overhead that means "I don't pay taxes or have liability insurance and workmans comp for my employee" Those of us that run legit know how expensive these things are not to mention maintenance, fuel, a building, ect. You won't praise him or someone just like him when they take your work away because they can do it cheaper by cutting corners and running outside the system. When they take your jobs and take food from your children's mouths, remember what you said. It is easy to get rid of them when they are small, don't let them grow into a cancer that kills us all.


This guy speaks the truth.


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## Deerewashed (Jan 13, 2010)

LOL, everything got calm after metro spoke.


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## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

Metro Lawn;1388318 said:


> To all those guys that praise him:
> 
> It is all fine and good but you know when he says there is no overhead that means "I don't pay taxes or have liability insurance and workmans comp for my employee" Those of us that run legit know how expensive these things are not to mention maintenance, fuel, a building, ect. You won't praise him or someone just like him when they take your work away because they can do it cheaper by cutting corners and running outside the system. When they take your jobs and take food from your children's mouths, remember what you said. It is easy to get rid of them when they are small, don't let them grow into a cancer that kills us all.


Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

Very well said!!

87CHEVY IMHDAO age doesn't have anything to do with it. A fly by night lowballer is still a fly by night lowballer regardless of his age.


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## touchdowntim91 (Dec 21, 2011)

I do agree with metro lawn. earthscape- you do want to save money now. thats one thing i wish i would have done when i actually made money. now all my money is recycled into my business between, insurance, wear and tear, labor, and taxes. you want to slow down and get some " move money " under ya. what i mean by that is save up some money ( like 20,000 ) and then sit on it. you can then make smart, stupid and gamble decisions knowing that you wont loose your ass if your luck turns south. and you will want to take horticulture classes one day, if you want to go any where in the industry.


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## kc2006 (Oct 16, 2005)

Metro Lawn;1388318 said:


> To all those guys that praise him:
> 
> It is all fine and good but you know when he says there is no overhead that means "I don't pay taxes or have liability insurance and workmans comp for my employee" Those of us that run legit know how expensive these things are not to mention maintenance, fuel, a building, ect. You won't praise him or someone just like him when they take your work away because they can do it cheaper by cutting corners and running outside the system. When they take your jobs and take food from your children's mouths, remember what you said. It is easy to get rid of them when they are small, don't let them grow into a cancer that kills us all.


Exactly. And 10 years from now when his body is beat and he decides to hire employee's and see's what a PITA it is and the expenses that go with it he'll wish he stayed in school. I'm at that point, body is wearing out already but don't want to deal with idiot employee's and wish I would of went to college instead when I was 20 and doing 80k in sales with no bills because I lived at home I thought I was set. WRONG.

It always cracks me up when I see young guys talk about how "working your a$$ off will get you everything", until they hit 30 and their body's say F O.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

kc2006;1389304 said:


> It always cracks me up when I see young guys talk about how "working your a$$ off will get you everything", until they hit 30 and their body's say F O.


30 and your body is saying F O. I know brick masons, labors and alot of hard working people in their 50s still going strong. I think 30 is alittle young for a landscaper.


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## 87chevy (Mar 11, 2009)

Big Dog D;1388689 said:


> Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
> 
> Very well said!!
> 
> 87CHEVY IMHDAO age doesn't have anything to do with it. A fly by night lowballer is still a fly by night lowballer regardless of his age.


You don't even know him and you're calling him a lowballer? Because he has 2 nice trucks and is 17?

I'm still calling B.S. on every single person saying they dont care how old he is.


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## plowingkid35 (Nov 16, 2010)

87chevy;1389652 said:


> You don't even know him and you're calling him a lowballer? Because he has 2 nice trucks and is 17?
> 
> I'm still calling B.S. on every single person saying they dont care how old he is.


Im totally with ya on this one. Im young got quite a few nice trucks, but the point is, is that he will sink or swim on his own. He will be the one who figures it out on his own. I have had plenty of lowballers come in and undercut but within a year or two those same customers are calling me back. I think its absolutely ridiculous that all of you guys on here criticizing are giving him this hard of a time. Everyone starts somewhere. No person can say that they just decided to start a company and went out and bought all of this brand new stuff, and didnt cut some corners. The best of the best start from the ground up. NOBODY gets to start a company with a ton of accounts and the best of equipment without a little help or cutting corners.


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

I live in the Utica Rome area. I own an excavating company and do some plowing in the winter. 
What dealership does your dad own? Maybe I purchased a vehicle from him?

I am pretty familiar with the commercial properties around town, do a few of them myself. What one's are you doing this year? I might be able to give you some information on them.

You can private message me if you like.


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## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

87chevy;1389652 said:


> You don't even know him and you're calling him a lowballer? Because he has 2 nice trucks and is 17?
> 
> I'm still calling B.S. on every single person saying they dont care how old he is.


I'm calling him a fly by night lowballer because that's what he is. Read all of his following statements



Earthscapes 315;1387104 said:


> 2 trucks. my black one with 9.6 v and my dump truck 9.2 v .
> the 2002 blue f-350 with 7.6 straight blade i sold when i the chance came to purchase the 2008 f550 dump truck.
> *"no Overhead" in the sense of no mortage of a house of business. i live at home
> no food cost.
> ...





Earthscapes 315;1387144 said:


> ok. i understand your side.but i dont consider my insurance over head( vehicle insurance)
> because of the fact its cheaper for me to insure a truck in NY than any car with my age bracket. i get all my trucks way behind book value because my father is a car dealer. so any manitance cost are refunded at the time of sale of the truck. fuel is spent no matter what. mind as well spend more and make a bigger profit. you have to cut coners because my age puts me into a rock and hard place.
> now maybe thats not the correct way of looking at it *but this is how i break it down. and i pay any bills i have. then the profit i break up into precentage.
> so much percent goes to the follow
> ...


Do you see any indication any where in any of those statements that he pays: liability insurance? workers comp? pay roll taxes?..........

Everything he boasts about is how he gets everything on the cheap. My guess is that the majority of what he claims he learned from his long family lineage of dropouts is how to screw the system. His MO fits the classic lowballer profile. Let everybody else do it the right way and support the rest of society by doing things properly and I'll make all kinds of money to "_grow my business and buy more toys_" by not doing things right.

Note: no where did I mention age, it's a non-factor to me. :salute:.


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## DareDog (Oct 22, 2007)

Yep we need snow like yesterday!!:redbounce


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## 87chevy (Mar 11, 2009)

Big Dog D;1389895 said:


> I'm calling him a fly by night lowballer because that's what he is. Read all of his following statements
> 
> Do you see any indication any where in any of those statements that he pays: liability insurance? workers comp? pay roll taxes?..........
> 
> ...


Where exactly does he say he has employees that he has to pay?

And of course you didn't say it, because it's a mindset. You think that kids can't do anything right unless we sit in school for 14 years and have absolutely *worthless* information pounded into our heads. Perfect example. My human relations class I took this semester. Learned NOTHING, hell I failed it. So i'll have to take it again if I want to get my degree. Now answer me this. What on God's green earth does that class have to do with being a diesel mechanic? And what's all this for? A piece of paper that says you've had a bunch of useless information pounded into your head that you'll probably neeeeeeeeeeever use.



DareDog;1389907 said:


> Yep we need snow like yesterday!!:redbounce


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

My take on this. Take this for what its worth, not to much. 

The point I think a few are making is that you have certain built in expenses in running a business that is mandatory. If the OP is doing commercial properties than he will have to have a "certificate of insurance" with the property listed as co-insured. Unless these properties don't know any better but a government property will require that. 

All my commercial accounts require this certificate. 

As far as employees he can handle that any way he wants I guess, but at some point the employee gets hurt or quits and then that can be very painfully if not handled correctly.payup 

As far as age goes, banks will require a co-signer, contracts will require some one 18. I personally don't think most business here would hire a 17 year old on his own when you have so many older more established companies going after this work and bidding very competitively. He could have help from his family that either own these properties or know who does. Most plowing here gets done by who you know and not by what you know anyways. 

School, high school is a must. Unless you are self employed at a very young age or employed by family very hard to get work that pays with out it. Remember you have to compete with others for the job. 

College is only good if the degree is very specific and you can find work that pays enough to pay back the loans. Many go for liberal arts and cant find work and owe $100,000 from school. The only one making out is the school. The maturing you do in collage is important as is the beer and girls, but worth $100,000 I don't think so.


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

It's all about being a well rounded individual, there have been countless times I've been glad I paid attention in history, humanities etc whether it be sounding educated when talking with a client or talking politics with my banker. You get out what you put in, just my opinion.


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## fatboy (Dec 6, 2006)

Good on ya Earthscapes! all the naysayers are just jealous of you and what you have, keep it up bud!! Thumbs Up
I too dropped out of high school early and at 39 have built, operated and sold two very successful businesses and now just work when i feel like it and have all the comforts and toys I ever wanted, I'm not bragging just saying its very possible to become successful with determination! payup


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

Good point William. The way you speak, the way you communicate with others is very important. 
If you are involved in a service business communication is very important. 

I have two children in collage know, one for teaching and the other for forensics so I am fully aware of the benefits. 

I went too a two year state school and all though I don't use the degree specifically I wouldn't give those years back.


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

fatboy;1390011 said:


> Good on ya Earthscapes! all the naysayers are just jealous of you and what you have, keep it up bud!! Thumbs Up
> I too dropped out of high school early and at 39 have built, operated and sold two very successful businesses and now just work when i feel like it and have all the comforts and toys I ever wanted, I'm not bragging just saying its very possible to become successful with determination! payup


At 17 did the bank loan you money with out a co-signer?
Hard work and perseverance can get you over many hurdles. Congratulations on your successes. Thumbs Up

Getting help from others is not a bad thing either but some times people do not want to admit it.


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## fatboy (Dec 6, 2006)

Yes of course I had a co-signer at that age, whats your point, I don't recall Earthscapes saying he hasen't had any help, he clearly said his dad gets him great deals on trucks and I'm sure his father finance's him too, nothing wrong with that! We have all had some help at some point in our lives. I am proud to say I to have helped a few younger guys with a start like i was fortunate enough to get, "give what you get" so to speak.


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

My point is that some of the younger guys on here are calling bull sh*t of young guys that post threads about the new trucks they have ( about $100,000 worth) and say "this is my company and I am 17".

To be honest I under stand the skepticism and the need to call the guy out by some members that are young and just starting out. I personally don't see the need to call the guy out because I don't care. It is all about how the original poster portrayed himself. He could of started his thread much differently. You and I know for a fact that at 17 this is not something that is done in most cases. 

The OP is very fortunate to have this situation and should not take it for granted or not appreciate it. He should also remember to give credit to others were credit is do. Portraying yourself as something your not is just a sign of immaturity and lack of self esteem thats all.


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## 87chevy (Mar 11, 2009)

John Mac;1390332 said:


> My point is that some of the younger guys on here are calling bull sh*t of young guys that post threads about the new trucks they have ( about $100,000 worth) and say "this is my company and I am 17".
> 
> To be honest I under stand the skepticism and the need to call the guy out by some members that are young and just starting out. I personally don't see the need to call the guy out because I don't care. It is all about how the original poster portrayed himself. He could of started his thread much differently. You and I know for a fact that at 17 this is not something that is done in most cases.
> 
> The OP is very fortunate to have this situation and should not take it for granted or not appreciate it. He should also remember to give credit to others were credit is do.


I understand some skepticism, honestly I'm a little skeptical myself! Little late to point that out but whatever. I'm simply sticking up for him because I feel some of these guys are drilling him because he's young and said he dropped out.


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

To be honest, the trucks are not what I would be skeptical about. That is not that big of a deal. The accounts he has in two years at 17, all on his own is not possible . 

I know of the Fast Track account and this was not awarded to 17 year old. His father or grandfather absolutely. Especial if they are business owners in the community and are friends with owners that make sense. The accounts is what enables you to buy what ever equipment you need not the other way around.


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## mrdeere160 (Dec 1, 2005)

He should go back to school and learn how to spell!


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## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

87chevy;1389945 said:


> Where exactly does he say he has employees that he has to pay?


yea. i dropped out of high school. both trucks are mine. both deseil. and *i have another worker *run the black truck. the dump truck ia my baby


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## fatboy (Dec 6, 2006)

John Mac;1390332 said:


> My point is that some of the younger guys on here are calling bull sh*t of young guys that post threads about the new trucks they have ( about $100,000 worth) and say "this is my company and I am 17".
> 
> To be honest I under stand the skepticism and the need to call the guy out by some members that are young and just starting out. I personally don't see the need to call the guy out because I don't care. It is all about how the original poster portrayed himself. He could of started his thread much differently. You and I know for a fact that at 17 this is not something that is done in most cases.
> 
> The OP is very fortunate to have this situation and should not take it for granted or not appreciate it. He should also remember to give credit to others were credit is do. Portraying yourself as something your not is just a sign of immaturity and lack of self esteem thats all.


You make a very good point and i agree, a little less boldness could have been used.Thumbs Up


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## RoesLandscaping (Dec 8, 2011)

WilliamOak;1386506 said:


> Nice to see other younger guys on here, I'm 20 here and have slowly expanded snow/lawn over the years. 20yrs old and am one yr away from finally being done with school, countin down the days lol


bump!Thumbs Up just turned 19 on the 9th. Been plowing since i got my licence in the winter of 08


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## RoesLandscaping (Dec 8, 2011)

BMB Plowing;1386641 said:


> Where in the 315 are you?
> My question is where did you get the money to pay for these two new trucks and plows being only 17 years old, a high school drop out and only beginning your second year in business?
> Where did you learn how to bid jobs, run a business and do all this stuff?
> I'm not knocking it, it looks like your doing a great job, I'm just curious.


you would beb suprised. I started out at 16 with a walk behind ztr, now i have the contracts to 3 local hospitals, and not to mention the landscaping contract for one they just built. Im a pretty happy boy lol. Im still in college on my second year in landscaping


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## K1500 4x4 (Mar 3, 2008)

im a young guy as well and i just have a few driveways it is not easy getting accounts. but im not impressed. dropping out of high school is a sign of laziness and or lack of commitment to your work IMO.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

K1500 4x4;1391055 said:


> but im not impressed. dropping out of high school is a sign of laziness and/or lack of commitment to your work IMO.


I would like to think we post on forums to share pictures and ideas without the lectures on spelling and punctuation. When one starts out telling us how they "dropped out of school."you're just opening up a thread for criticism.
Perhaps just share a picture of equipment and tell us about the type of account and how you operate. Even then, you will still get critics here!
To be honest, I hope you are sending the posts from an Iphone and that explains the grammatical errors. If not, get back in school.
Hopefully your family has taught you, "work smarter, not harder"! I'm thinking not...
Maybe you could listen and learn? The more equipment and trucks you own won't necessarily equate to more money or in real terms "profit". 
I might share many different types of work pictures, but if you look, not many are of trucks. 
Why? Because they are one of the fastest depreciating large assets you'll own.

To finish my rant, did I mention you should go back to school? Ugh, what were you thinking? (what's the next girlfriend going to think, my boyfriend "dropped out"?)
What do you know about management, accounting, HR, etc, etc. 
And running a plow truck doesn't count! Just because I'm viewed as a expert finish dozer operator by my peers, doesn't mean I'm a great business owner....


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

K1500 4x4;1391055 said:


> dropping out of high school is a sign of laziness and or lack of commitment to your work IMO.


You couldn't be more wrong in this statement. Some of the hardest working people i know never finished high school. Just sayin.

My dad told me years ago. Its a man thoughts that count. Not if he can spell or make a proper sentence or not. My dad only made it to the 9th grade. He worked 55-65hrs a week. Had a house worth over 400k. He did good in his life.

You wanna talk about commitment to your work. You have to love your work to have a good commitment to it. School is not for everyone.


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## Burkartsplow (Nov 1, 2007)

I say if he can do it then that is great. School is not the path for everyone and he might as well persue something he is passionate about and be out ahead of the curve. I on the other hand worked for the same landscape and snow company all through high school and college and got my business degree and then started my business. I could have done the same thing and started at the age of 18 but I wanted something to fall back on in the future. I have a lot of clients that own large companies and if one day I wanted a job with them they already know my work ethic and the education helps a lot. I would say at least go back and get your GED and maybe down the road you would want to take some night classes and work on a degree. Good Luck and good jjob on what you have accomplished so far.


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## adksnowo (Dec 14, 2005)

Good luck to you this winter. I agree with what Blowerman had to say above. 

One thing I can say for myself is that I have a Bachelors degree. It cannot be repossessed, taken away, or lost. I can always fall back on my education/degree to help find employment if I had to. It isn't what you learned to an employer it is that you did learn and had the gumption to put in the time, effort and resources ($$$) to improve yourself. As personal educational attainment increases unemployment has a tendency to decrease. Even though you may not apply specific skills developed through education in general your quality of life and earning potential are higher overall with increased education.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

The bench mark isn't all about money in life. When your body is shot from physically working hard for 40 plus years, (i'm in my 30's) the fancy house won't matter.

My posts are not about starting a debate or being philosophical, honestly I just feel bad when someone passes on one of the easiest opportunities given, basic education or at least finishing high school.
There isn't all that much pleasure going to the "school of hard knocks". 
Others have posted it before, it's not as if you'll use everything you learn from college but you'll probably appreciate having it.
Like The Tool Kit You Keep Behind The Seat Of Your Truck, Not Needed Everyday, But Great To Have When Needed!


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

I have owned and operated our landscape business for over thirty five years. I learned an awful lot along the way, college was not in my plans. Like I said I learned a lot along the way, our son chose our industry as well and chose to get a four year degree in landscape design and lanscape construction management. I continue to be amazed at what he was taught and what he learned about our industry in four years. Stay in school, head towards a school where you can learn about the path you are choosing. The school of hard knocks is expensive and has cost many their business.


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## born2farm (Dec 24, 2007)

Metro Lawn;1388318 said:


> To all those guys that praise him:
> 
> It is all fine and good but you know when he says there is no overhead that means "I don't pay taxes or have liability insurance and workmans comp for my employee" Those of us that run legit know how expensive these things are not to mention maintenance, fuel, a building, ect. You won't praise him or someone just like him when they take your work away because they can do it cheaper by cutting corners and running outside the system. When they take your jobs and take food from your children's mouths, remember what you said. It is easy to get rid of them when they are small, don't let them grow into a cancer that kills us all.


I agree with exactly what is said here. I am not bashing this kid because of his age. I could care less how old he is, if he dropped out of school or not or what his family does for a living. I myself am only 19 and have worked me ass off for what my company is. I am calling him out on the fact that he can do everything legally at 17. Maybe NY is different, but i know in Ohio you cannot legaly own a business untill your eighteen. That being said he could not legaly have an employee. This would be why he has no overhead tied to employees because he is probably paying his "helper" under the table meaning no workers comp, no payroll taxes and most of all no insurance costs on the employee. As far as the accounts he has, I am calling BS on that too. You would not be able to get a Government contract without showing proof of insurance and workers comp. I know around here they wont even let you in the door for a bid meeting without showing proof of these two documents.

To the original poster i did not open this thread with intentions of bashing you. It just rubs me the wrong way when someone comes on here saying all this stuff about there company when i know how hard i have worked for what i have at a young age. Run your business legal.! It will pay off in the long run when something happens. Let me know how that no overhead works out when you start paying for commercial insurance,liability insurance, payroll taxes, self employment taxes, paying into unemployment, state taxe,federal taxes and the list goes on and on and on. Good luck!


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## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

87chevy;1389945 said:


> Where exactly does he say he has employees that he has to pay?


Read the following. I read the whole thing and formulated my opinion based on the info he provided. I didn't do like you did and jump to a conclusion that was incorrect.



Earthscapes 315;1386622 said:


> yea. i dropped out of high school. both trucks are mine. both deseil. and *i have another worker run the black truck*. the dump truck ia my baby





87chevy;1389945 said:


> And of course you didn't say it, because it's a mindset. You think that kids can't do anything right unless we sit in school for 14 years and have absolutely *worthless* information pounded into our heads. Perfect example. My human relations class I took this semester. Learned NOTHING, hell I failed it. So i'll have to take it again if I want to get my degree. Now answer me this. What on God's green earth does that class have to do with being a diesel mechanic? And what's all this for? A piece of paper that says you've had a bunch of useless information pounded into your head that you'll probably neeeeeeeeeeever use.


I'll say it one last time for you since you obviousy don't seem to _kompweehend_ what I am saying. My opinion of him doesn't have anything at all to do with age. You will see that one day when you grow older and wiser that older people astually knew what they were talking about when they were trying to give you friendly advice.

Did you ever for one second stop to think that by including the Human Realations class in your curriculum they are preparing you for other things in life? If you are a great diesel mechanic and one day decide to open your own shop don't you think that the "worthless information they pounded into our heads" will help you to deal with customers, employees, sales people etc..????? You need to learn to look at the bigger picture.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

It truly blows my mind how anti college this site has become. There is a lot more you learn at college about life and work then just what is taught in class.


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## BMB Plowing (Nov 20, 2010)

I think you guys scared off the original poster


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## Red Bull Junkie (Nov 24, 2009)

females 101 Thumbs Up


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## 87chevy (Mar 11, 2009)

Big Dog D;1393619 said:


> Read the following. I read the whole thing and formulated my opinion based on the info he provided. I didn't do like you did and jump to a conclusion that was incorrect.
> 
> I'll say it one last time for you since you obviousy don't seem to _kompweehend_ what I am saying. My opinion of him doesn't have anything at all to do with age. You will see that one day when you grow older and wiser that older people astually knew what they were talking about when they were trying to give you friendly advice.
> 
> Did you ever for one second stop to think that by including the Human Realations class in your curriculum they are preparing you for other things in life? If you are a great diesel mechanic and one day decide to open your own shop don't you think that the "worthless information they pounded into our heads" will help you to deal with customers, employees, sales people etc..????? You need to learn to look at the bigger picture.


I can spell comprehend thanks 

And honestly, I paid attention through that entire class, as much as I hated it, knowing that hating it was going to give me a bad attitude, so I paid attention all the time. I took away nothing. Absolutely nothing.

It didn't help, however, that the teacher was not very good. She did not have the experience to teach the class and kept waving "i ALMOST" have a Ph.D in this subject.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off here.. And I think that little shot there, with the comprehend thing, at me was uncalled for. Especially since I always check my grammer before I post. But that's just me...


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## Greenmtboy (Jan 22, 2011)

Where did the OP go


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## NickT (Feb 1, 2011)

Greenmtboy;1393998 said:


> Where did the OP go


Maybe he's off getting his tax I'd number, or setting up his payroll tax account....... Nah forget it


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## NickT (Feb 1, 2011)

Greenmtboy;1393998 said:


> Where did the OP go


Maybe he's off getting his tax I D number, or setting up his payroll tax account....... Nah forget it


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## Winter Land Man (Aug 9, 2005)

I learned to drive a lawn tractor when I was 5, I mowed some of my neighbor's lawns. I bought a new lawn tractor when I was 8 with money from that. 

In my mid-teens I started buying and restoring garden tractors, and then selling them. 

When I was 15, I quit school.  By that age, I knew how to do math, read, and write. I made a steady income from those tractors, plus mowing.

At 17, I bought a truck for $1.00 from my dad. How could I have passed an offer like that? Not possible, and I'm not ashamed of anything about it. I did happen to get my GED that year, as well, just to satisfy others. I don't even know where it is now. 

At 18 I got my license and insurance and got big into the landscaping business. 

After that, I bought more equipment, like my first one-ton dump truck, and I had a co-signer, why be ashamed about that? People can do it. 

The insurance sucks, but it's good to have. People can do things at a young age. There's no need for discrimination. Some of the questions you are asking him, it sounds like a damn interview or job application... in the photo section.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

plowguy43;1393842 said:


> It truly blows my mind how anti college this site has become. There is a lot more you learn at college about life and work then just what is taught in class.


well most blue collar workers dont go to college. This is a snow plowing site. What do you think doctors,lawyers etc etc are posting on here???

I have nothing against college. College is for some poeple and college is not for others.

I know a girl that went to college for 4 years to be a nurse. Guess what?? She drives a truck now and loves it. Makes alot less money then a nurse. But she told me if she had to do it all over again she would have never went to college. She has been driving for about 6 years now.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

BTW it also seems if you go to college they suck the common sense out of you.

My GF is very smart. She is a RN and is going back to school right now for her masters. She is only 24 years old. Makes around 70k. She is getting her maters in nursing so she can become a boss. I give her credit

But when it comes to common sense or street smarts. LOOK OUT. She has none what so ever. It just amazes me. Maybe its me. lol


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Mackman;1394463 said:


> well most blue collar workers dont go to college. This is a snow plowing site. What do you think doctors,lawyers etc etc are posting on here???
> 
> I have nothing against college. College is for some poeple and college is not for others.
> 
> I know a girl that went to college for 4 years to be a nurse. Guess what?? She drives a truck now and loves it. Makes alot less money then a nurse. But she told me if she had to do it all over again she would have never went to college. She has been driving for about 6 years now.


Great to hear about that girl. Everyone is putting up experience's about how hard they worked after they dropped out - ever stop and think that some people worked just as hard as you and continued their way through college as well? I know plenty of people who worked their way through highschool and college and paid their own way - my wife and myself are 2 I can think of off the top of my head.

As previously posted before, work smarter not harder.



Mackman;1394466 said:


> BTW it also seems if you go to college they suck the common sense out of you.
> 
> My GF is very smart. She is a RN and is going back to school right now for her masters. She is only 24 years old. Makes around 70k. She is getting her maters in nursing so she can become a boss. I give her credit
> 
> But when it comes to common sense or street smarts. LOOK OUT. She has none what so ever. It just amazes me. Maybe its me. lol


You can't teach common sense, you either have it or you don't. There's book smarts, street smarts, and people who have one, the other, or both.

I don't knock this kid for doing well for himself, I'm happy he did. But its a fact that most drop-outs don't do nearly as well as those who graduate highschool and college. Argue it all you want, its a fact.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

plowguy43;1394539 said:


> Great to hear about that girl. Everyone is putting up experience's about how hard they worked after they dropped out - ever stop and think that some people worked just as hard as you and continued their way through college as well? I know plenty of people who worked their way through highschool and college and paid their own way - my wife and myself are 2 I can think of off the top of my head.
> 
> As previously posted before, work smarter not harder.


Good post. Cant argue with too much in that lol

The whole work smarter not harder thing. I understand it. But some people just cant do the whole smarter thing. I am one of them. I would rather run a jackhammer for 8hrs a day then sit in an office with a suit and tie on.

BTW im not supporting dropping out of high school and not going to college. I just hate when people look down upon people who would rather go to work then school. As long as they go to work everyday and not sit home on welfare etc etc. They are alright by me.


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## [email protected] (May 29, 2009)

The owner of our company dropped out of school in the 8th grade....business sense does not always come from books thats for sure. Congrats to you!


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## NBI Lawn (Oct 15, 2007)

*didn't read all 6 pages.

Congratulations on what appears to be success at a young age. Unfortunaly I can't and won't condone dropping out of school. At 16 or 17 you should be more concerned about school work, girls and what college you want to go to than where your next driveway contract. If my kids (when I have them) ever drop out They can start paying my mortgage and their own insurance...see what the real world is like. 

There is only one thing in this world that nobody can take from you and thats an education.


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## NBI Lawn (Oct 15, 2007)

Now I read it all. Good read . At 17 you haven't been through enough winters to know what its like when it DOESN'T snow. Have you budgeted for a no snow season? I now you live at home but if you do have insurance, truck payments, entertainment, cell phone... that alone can kill (financially) quickly. Here is were the school comes into play. When it doesn't snow what are you going to do for money? You dont have high school education and the only skill you have is plow operator. Kinda F'ed yourself. 

Again it is great that you have been able to do this with help or not but it wont last. Eventually you will have to move out, get a shop, etc. If you dont have insurance and have one slip and fall the attorney fees could cost you many thousands let alone the settlement they will most likely receive.


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