# Plowing with a tractor



## sven1277 (Jan 15, 2008)

I have a Kubota b7610 w/cab heat and a 60" power angle blade. It has been underutilized the past couple of seasons. I am going to use it at a condo assoc. that consists of 16 driveways. Two questions. First, I need weight in the rear for extra traction. For whatever reason, wheel weights are not made for r4 , only the ag tires. Is loading the tires with calcium giving the exact same result? It seems because the liquid isn't bolted and just sloshing around that it would be fine as counter weight, but not as much traction. Additionally, I might be using the 3point for a pendulum spreader, depending on the storm.
Second, the 60" blade is good for the drives, but there is a 48" wide walkway that runs up around the cul-de-sac back down to the main road. I would like to be able to do this job with just the tractor.


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## adino1954 (Jan 30, 2006)

Calcium will rot your rims in years to come.Where i work at G and H equip ( North Haven CT ) we load tires with ballast-star its a citris based liquid that is not as corrosive as calcium. It is $3.00 per gallon loaded into your tires.any questions call 203-239-3376


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## sven1277 (Jan 15, 2008)

I think my dealer uses something derived from beet juice.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

We still use calcium in ours and rusting hasn't been a problem but I'd be interested in trying the beat juice out. Loaded tires do help for traction BTW Our telehandler has all 4 tires loaded.


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## keitha (Dec 30, 2001)

*Weight*

Loaded tires act both as weight for traction and counter balance, think of a 
1000lbs on a foot print of 1 sq foot vs 500 lbs.wesport
What about a 3pt weight box that you can swap out with the spreader?
A 3pt blade also would add weight and versatlity.
Going to be tough doing that walk, but what's a little turf repair in the spring.
Loading the tires on a smaller tractor may not add as much weight to horse power as an
ag tractor, but every little bit helps.
You might also want to consider chains for the rears. May only need 
them on a rare occasion but when you need them you'll be glad to have them.
Lastly, get a set of ag tires on rims for winter use and weight them out.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

sven1277;578884 said:


> I have a Kubota b7610 w/cab heat and a 60" power angle blade. It has been underutilized the past couple of seasons. I am going to use it at a condo assoc. that consists of 16 driveways. Two questions. First, I need weight in the rear for extra traction. For whatever reason, wheel weights are not made for r4 , only the ag tires. Is loading the tires with calcium giving the exact same result? It seems because the liquid isn't bolted and just sloshing around that it would be fine as counter weight, but not as much traction. Additionally, I might be using the 3point for a pendulum spreader, depending on the storm.
> Second, the 60" blade is good for the drives, but there is a 48" wide walkway that runs up around the cul-de-sac back down to the main road. I would like to be able to do this job with just the tractor.


We have been using calcium for many years now, never had a rim rot out. Sometimes I ve had to replace the valves. If there is other stuff available go for it.
The extra weight will help. What I strongly suggest is get a 3 or 4 foot snowblower on your 3 point. Now your set to do your walkways, and if there is some big snow drifts on your drives it will go faster than with a plow. Or windrow your drives to once side and then blow it away. Its extra insurance to have both, if one should break, you can always finish with the other.


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## sven1277 (Jan 15, 2008)

That's a great idea as far as having both options available


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

Get your tires loaded (with whatever)
It's cheap, it's easy, it's SO much better you won't believe it.
Loading your tires will give you a LOT more weight than wheel weights and it's all lower to the ground.

If you really want to go all out (and have the money)
Get the tires foamed. Takes about 3 days, it's big money, but you will never have another flat, you just get the tires recapped when the tread wears out (so no loss on the foam) and you'll get the weight.

put a BIG bucket on. snow isn't heavy (like sand or gravel) so you can move a LOT more snow than running out of weight.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

what about using anti freeze? anyone think of that? it shouldnt be harful to a rim , or a rubber tire'

and correct me if im wrong , but filling them with liquid is only a traction solver... it does NOt act as a counterweight , unless your rear axle is already in the air


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

elite1msmith;579117 said:


> and correct me if im wrong , but filling them with liquid is only a traction solver... it does NOt act as a counterweight , unless your rear axle is already in the air


why wouldn't it?
1200lbs in two tires way down low in the back?
clearly counterweight.
My rear tires are filled on my TC45, I can have nothing on the 3 point, have the big bucket on (2/3 of a yard) and fill it heaping full with sand and wander off, no problem. (that's about 1600lbs in the bucket)

Yeah, it's a counterweight.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

LoneCowboy;579124 said:


> why wouldn't it?
> 1200lbs in two tires way down low in the back?
> clearly counterweight.
> My rear tires are filled on my TC45, I can have nothing on the 3 point, have the big bucket on (2/3 of a yard) and fill it heaping full with sand and wander off, no problem. (that's about 1600lbs in the bucket)
> ...


 no heres y its not counter weight.... assuming all for tires are on the ground equally, with equal pressure , the center of gravity would be in the middle of your tractor. in order to move the center of gravity rearward, the weight has to be -BEHIND the rear axle... true some fo the fluid would be behind it, but some is also in front of it... the two would conter each other. it will take just a little weight off the front , but not alot. Counter weight needs to be placed behind the axle... any weight that is in front of it will be divided between the two axles... which means it wil be adding weight to the front as well as the rear

you need to think about it like a lever or at the play ground , with a teetor taughter, .... if a kid sits on one side, you need to add another kid to the other side... by placing a fat man (ie Fluid) other the fulcum point(center or axle) it has no effect, since hes in the very middle of it, if he moves reward then he has an effect

what it will do , is keep the rear axle on the ground... it will keep it from lifting , but it will not releive weight that is on the front axle.... so if your lifting heavy objects that are going to put you over the FAWR , your liquid filled tries dont releive stress on that axle.

same thing goes for your pick truck. balast... yes putting weight in the back helps for tracton, however if you want to keep excessive weight off your front axle ...to counter the weight of the plow .... then you must counter weight it, and place the weigh AFT of the rear axle, or else you will just be adding more weight to the front and rear


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

elite1msmith;579128 said:


> no heres y its not counter weight.... assuming all for tires are on the ground equally, with equal pressure , the center of gravity would be in the middle of your tractor. in order to move the center of gravity rearward, the weight has to be -BEHIND the rear axle... true some fo the fluid would be behind it, but some is also in front of it... the two would conter each other. it will take just a little weight off the front , but not alot. Counter weight needs to be placed behind the axle... any weight that is in front of it will be divided between the two axles... which means it wil be adding weight to the front as well as the rear
> 
> you need to think about it like a lever or at the play ground , with a teetor taughter, .... if a kid sits on one side, you need to add another kid to the other side... by placing a fat man (ie Fluid) other the fulcum point(center or axle) it has no effect, since hes in the very middle of it, if he moves reward then he has an effect


I disagree, most AG tractors the tires are much larger in the back then the front. My back tires hold a ton each. Definitely works as a counter weight.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

well , ok lets simplfiy this.... or rather redefine it... 

if your talking about counter weight as in keeping the rear tires on the ground, with that being there sole purpose, plus tration - then yes your correct it does do that

if your talking about adding traction , keeping the rear wheels on the ground, AND Removing weight from the front axle, and placing it on the rear,... THEN NO, or VERY VERY LITTLE


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

dfh edyfg dfg


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

LoneCowboy;579200 said:


> dfh edyfg dfg


lol, been drinking much?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

elite1msmith;579205 said:


> lol, been drinking much?


Yes you have been, put a loader on a farm tractor and it's dangerous not to have your rear tires loaded. Not quite sure why your arguing about common knowledge, about using counter weight. We run wheel weights on most of our tractors because we don't want to deal with calcium when we get flats. Foam filled tires are great for a yard tractor but I wouldn't want to run one down the road.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

he is arguing the same point everyone argues about ballast or counterweight in a pickup behind the rear wheels to off set the plow.\\\\

same principal. different machine


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

im not aguing, we seem to have a different meaning of the term counter weight.... i veiw it just like blast on a truck... it has to be behind the rear axle in order to take weight off the front axle....

other wise the only thing it does is keep the rear on the ground....

if you place the weight anywere forward of the the rear axle, it will add more weight to the front and rear... thus it dosnt counter anything... it keeps the front on the ground.. 

your loader becomes dangerous when the center of gravity is forward of the front axle.... causing it to tip forward... loading your tires.. keeps the center of gravity rear of the axle making it more stable... however now the front axle is holeing the entire weight of your bucket load... and some of the loaded tires... a good percentage of the machines entire weight , plus weight or your loaded tires, and bucket. ....is transfered to the frount axle...

if you really want i can teach a math class too...lol its not hard to figure out....

those of you that are "ballasting" your trucks,,,, trying to remove weight from your front axle.... becasue your a few hundred over the FAWR... the only way to do it ... is to put the wieght behind the rear axle , be the tailgate

if you are puttin git by the cab of the truck because you need room for your snow blower, your acctually making the problem worst.. and increasing the weight valve.... - granted you are accoplishing adding over all more weight to the truck/machine = more traction


with a true counter weight, and the weight behind the rear axle, when you pick up a load with the bucket, it is even more stable, and less weight is on the rear axle instead of the front


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

elite1msmith;579241 said:


> im not aguing, we seem to have a different meaning of the term counter weight.... i veiw it just like blast on a truck... it has to be behind the rear axle in order to take weight off the front axle....
> 
> other wise the only thing it does is keep the rear on the ground....


The rear axle on a tractor, is at the very rear, so the weight transfer is alot..


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

nope... still not correct... 


Yes it keeps the rear tires on the ground... yes it does (counter) the weigh of the material in your bucket... however all the weight in your bucket, plus a good portion of the tractors weight , including your loaded tires now rests on the Front axle, with minimal on the rear

in other words, yes you added weigh to the rear of your tractor, but failed to take any off the front


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Ok it's ballast then, your right.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

haha, i dont know what to call it.. but yeah what ever it is, ill get u a cold one too


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## lumps (Sep 3, 2005)

Yeah, you guys were just talking about two different things. elite is referring to counter-weight that is used to help unload the front end (putting weight behind the axle on anything will lift up the front, leaving less weight pushing down on the front axle). The purpose of tire weighting isn't to relieve front axle weight, but just to provide traction weight and ballast to offset the weight of whatever's in the bucket and keep the tractor from tipping over forward.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

correct,... you guys really need to consider that front axle weight more on a tractor... if your bucket is almost casuing the tractor to tip , (with out loaded tires) then that means you have the weight of your bucket/material , and a good portion of the tractor weight on the front axle... loaded tires still helps, but it all that weight is still on that axle...


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

elite1msmith;579544 said:


> correct,... you guys really need to consider that front axle weight more on a tractor... if your bucket is almost casuing the tractor to tip , (with out loaded tires) then that means you have the weight of your bucket/material , and a good portion of the tractor weight on the front axle... loaded tires still helps, but it all that weight is still on that axle...


Loades tires still help, well that's good to know.


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## QuadPlower (Jan 4, 2007)

I run beat juice in the rear tires and the front ones are foam filled. Beat juice works good until you ding your rim and some leaks out. It is very slippery. I have had the rim spin inside of the tire. Had to use the axle lock to keep going.

I think if you angle your 60" blade it will be 48" wide.

Let me try to explain the rear weight issue.

Teeter totter. kid on the left, fulcrum (front axle), kid on the right.

kid.........kid
........^

Now lets make the board longer. We add another kid behind the kid on the left. That is the bucket. Kid on the right goes into the air. Rear tires go up & more weight on the front axle.

kid kid.........kid
.............^

We add a kid to that side, it evens out. That is weight IN the rear tires. Rear tires go back to the ground, but front axle still has more weight on it.

kid kid.........kid kid
.............^

Now lets put a fulcrum between the two kids on the right. This simulates putting a weight Behind the rear tires. Now the rear wheels are on the ground AND weight it taken off of the front tires.

Kid Kid........Kid Kid
..............^.........^


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

QuadPlower;579755 said:


> I run beat juice in the rear tires and the front ones are foam filled. Beat juice works good until you ding your rim and some leaks out. It is very slippery. I have had the rim spin inside of the tire. Had to use the axle lock to keep going.
> 
> I think if you angle your 60" blade it will be 48" wide.
> 
> ...


Good explaination QP,


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

i like the little diagrams quad.

what if one of the kids on the left is fat from too many oreos (overloaded bucket) and the beat juice leaks out of the rear tires (kid on right is from africa)


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## QuadPlower (Jan 4, 2007)

What the heck is a kid from africa doing plowing snow with a fat kid in the bucket?

Thanks for the


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

i think you guys got off subject LOL seriuosly run RV fluid


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## QuadPlower (Jan 4, 2007)

RV anti-freeze is a good idea. Around here car anti-freeze is almost $10 a gallon. I have no idea what the beat juice costs, it came with my tractor. I do know that the foam was like $50 a tire for the small front ones on my BX.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

QuadPlower;579803 said:


> RV anti-freeze is a good idea. Around here car anti-freeze is almost $10 a gallon. I have no idea what the beat juice costs, it came with my tractor. I do know that the foam was like $50 a tire for the small front ones on my BX.


well thats in stores, but if you call up a local distributor that supplies places like jiffy lube... you get it really cheap , trust me on that one... if you think our industry is nickes and dimes, you should see that one


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

we get RV fluid wholesale from places that stock places like jiffy lube it comes in 55 gallon drums sorry dont recall the price but it is much cheaper than the gallon price at the store

anyone that says that calcium doesnt rust rims hasnt keep a tractor long enough it might not show for a long time but when it does it really does


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## 04superduty (Jan 9, 2004)

RV antifreeze is not toxic, unlike automotive antifreeze.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

04superduty;579952 said:


> RV antifreeze is not toxic, unlike automotive antifreeze.


correct, makes it a good way to go,


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## sven1277 (Jan 15, 2008)

I am thinking about taking a 4' rear blade and fabbing it to mount underneath the landpride pendulum spreader for the sidewalks. It would have plenty of weight with the spreader and salt above it. In the spring, it would be removable. Seems like the best solution to me to have 1 piece of equip on the property.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

sven1277;580201 said:


> I am thinking about taking a 4' rear blade and fabbing it to mount underneath the landpride pendulum spreader for the sidewalks. It would have plenty of weight with the spreader and salt above it. In the spring, it would be removable. Seems like the best solution to me to have 1 piece of equip on the property.


I see a problem with the rear blade. I assume you will angle it so you windrow the snow to one side. I don't know what your average seasonal snowfall is, but if you get more than 2 feet, where will your snow go? I see it falling over your blade, and therefor your sidewalks stay snow covered. Thats why I recommended the snow blower. I realize attaching the salter becomes an issue, but not being able to get rid of your snow will be worst. JM2Cs


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## sven1277 (Jan 15, 2008)

We quite often have rain mix in with the snow so its wet and heavy. Occasionally we'll get a large storm, but typically its under 6"


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

i have a question, im not filmilar with that exact tractor, is it less than 4 feet wide?


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Yes its 3 feet wide, 24 hp, 18hp on the PTO

I meant how snow falls in an average season.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

well i guess the 4 foot rear blade might work... do you think that because your driving over the snow , prior to plowing it, would you have a problem packing it down? would your blade scrape in clean?


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

elite1msmith;580271 said:


> well i guess the 4 foot rear blade might work... do you think that because your driving over the snow , prior to plowing it, would you have a problem packing it down? would your blade scrape in clean?


I worry after a few snow falls, where the snow will go. As for driving over the snow and then plowing, no real issue there. Thats how we do it with all our residencial tractors, we drive over and then blow the snow.


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## sven1277 (Jan 15, 2008)

Thats where having the front 60" blade not down on the sidewalk all the way could take care of some of the load and push it farther off to the side, then the rear blade would finish the plow down to the concrete. I actually think this could work very well.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Let us know how it works out, and show us some pics when you have some.


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## storm king (Sep 17, 2008)

Well professor , than you see saw analogy doesn't make much sense , because the fat guy would be sitting on the front axle since that would be the tipping point. 
Not the full wheelbase of the tractor , even a beginner can tell you loaded tires make a big difference once you have tried them .
Since the front axle is the pivot point , loaded tires are just as much of a (counter weight) as any ballast on the 3 point hitch ,thus it is behind the front axle or tipping point..


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## justwheelit (Aug 28, 2008)

i had the tires liquid filled on my JD 6430 before it even got to the house its just common procedure for any tractor, and as far as im concerned it is a counterweight, and who really cares about FAWR on a tractor......its a tractor thats why mine has a front loader and a big ass bucket, i never use a counter weight unless its 2WD........4WD is the way to go, i will never go back


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

justwheelit;587140 said:


> i had the tires liquid filled on my JD 6430 before it even got to the house its just common procedure for any tractor, and as far as im concerned it is a counterweight, and who really cares about FAWR on a tractor......its a tractor thats why mine has a front loader and a big ass bucket, i never use a counter weight unless its 2WD........4WD is the way to go, i will never go back


your right , who really caress... it your machine to destory not mine...lol


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## justwheelit (Aug 28, 2008)

thats right all $72,000 of it


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

well theres no question, its been proven to work great, im just saying depending on what you are lifting , you might consider a counter weight to help minimze front axle weight, ...


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

elite1msmith;587157 said:


> well theres no question, its been proven to work great, im just saying depending on what you are lifting , you might consider a counter weight to help minimze front axle weight, ...


Weight hanging off your 3 point hitch is a pain, that's why when you order a new tractor you can order wheel weights and if that's not enough we load our tires. Who wants to take weights off the back of their tractor everytime you hook something up and BTW Elite how many tractors do you own? And who brought this annoying thread back up? LOL


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

the "storm king"


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## storm king (Sep 17, 2008)

Guilty as charged.


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## itsgottobegreen (Mar 31, 2004)

I have a B7500 kubota with the curtis cab, kubota 5' plow with custom wings to make it 6.5'. My rear tires are loaded with antifreeze and water 4 to 1 ratio. Never had a problem with it for 6 winters now. Your tractor will be just fine. Its pushed 2' snow around with out any problems. The 5' blade with angle is only 4' wide so you will be fine with that one sidewalk.


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## storm king (Sep 17, 2008)

Tractors are great for tight spots and residental driveways. 
I was given all my accounts on the mountain where I plow by other landsapers who do not want the steep driveways.
I have tried my jeep Rubicon with lockers and chains , my john deere skid steer , and a maison dump .
All were pretty scary on the steep off camber stuff , some driveways go straight down as far as 100 yards or so with no where to go but into a house or garrage door or OFF THE MOUNTAIN ! 

The best set-up for us is my New Holland tc40da tractor 40 hp with a 7 ft blade and a box blade on the rear . For the tight spots we have a small john deere 4110 with the 54 in blade on the front and a salt hopper on the rear hooked to the pto, so far it has been an unbeatable combo. 

Most of the driveway we do were only done by hand or with a walk behind sno blower.
I have yet to find a set-up better than a tractor (chains if needed) for speed and manuverability on the really steep stuff and the hydrostatic trans almost makes it too easy. (no shiftig)

After beating up trany after trany in the trucks we went with tractors about 10 years ago and never looked back or had a regret , but I am only speaking for the steep and off camber tight driveways on the mountain where we mostly plow. Believe it or not we have got accounts from landscapers we helped get thier trucks un stuck or pulled out of the ditches .
Anyone elese have real steep accounts and want to share your set up for it ,I would like to hear about it, thanks in advance .
Good luck this winter hope your set up works as well as ours has . 
Storm King


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