# New to bidding



## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

New to bidding as I’ve just ran equipment for years. Finally got a truck and a set up for myself. 
any easy ways to suggest bidding? I’m reading through the forums now. Thanks for any input


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

welcome! 

Your question is sorta vague…

Are you curious about how to find homes/business that would let you give them a bid for snow removal? Or how to price bids? Or something else entirely?


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

D. All of the above. Suggestion on how to find and a basic how to price


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

We pretty much need a sticky for this every fall....

https://www.patriotsoftware.com/blog/accounting/how-pricing-services-strategies-models-formula/


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

With the goofy labor market we have right now, this might be an especially good year to subcontract you and your truck out to a larger snow removal company. It can be a good way for some outfits to get started.

to your question,
At this point in the year, most corporate companies/chains/big box stores already have their snow removal contractors in place, so I would focus on small mom and pop/single location/non corporate type businesses. Getting out and talking to owners/managers directly is the strategy we've used. I've never used traditional forms of advertising/marketing because just getting out and talking to the right people(owners/managers) and asking if you can talk to them about bidding on their snow removal has always kept me at or above my workload capacity.

pricing is hard to give advice on, and I can't say it much better than the article @Mr.Markus posted. You need to figure out how much you need to make to cover your costs and compensate you as the owner. Then you need to figure out how long the property your bidding on is is going to take you. With these two numbers you can determine a price. It's can be a lot of guess work in the beginning. One thing I would mention is that agreeing to remove snow for someone pretty much means your on-call 24-7 from November to March. That's a pretty big commitment and you should be getting paid for that. Your price should reflect not only the work your doing during the storm but also the lifestyle change you'll have to make to be able to service customers.

feel free to ask any other questions and we'll try and answer


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> We pretty much need a sticky for this every fall....
> 
> https://www.patriotsoftware.com/blog/accounting/how-pricing-services-strategies-models-formula/


Thought you were going the non-profit route?



Kinport said:


> With the goofy labor market we have right now, this might be an especially good year to subcontract you and your truck out to a larger snow removal company. It can be a good way for some outfits to get started.


Unfortunately, Kinport is correct. It's getting pretty late to be signing up customers. The ones who haven't signed are not good planners (winter comes every year, roughly the same time) which means they are likely tire kickers.

Another part of the problem is regionality of pricing. Pricing varies immensely from area to area, even 1 hour apart.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> (winter comes every year, roughly the same time)


Fact check?


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## Owner/operator (Feb 22, 2021)

Kinport said:


> One thing I would mention is that agreeing to remove snow for someone pretty much means your on-call 24-7 from November to March. That's a pretty big commitment and you should be getting paid for that. Your price should reflect not only the work your doing during the storm but also the lifestyle change you'll have to make to be able to service customers.


powerful statement right there...I got my first spreader last year...2 days later had a big storm " for us anyway"..... whole City had no salt...dealer opened at 9 pm that night when their load came in from Chicago ....without a single customer lined up....I went at it till 10 am...... payed for my small tail gate spreader in 2 days..talking to smaller businesses was great for me....


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## Owner/operator (Feb 22, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thought you were going the non-profit route?
> 
> Unfortunately, Kinport is correct. It's getting pretty late to be signing up customers. The ones who haven't signed are not good planners (winter comes every year, roughly the same time) which means they are likely tire kickers.
> 
> Another part of the problem is regionality of pricing. Pricing varies immensely from area to area, even 1 hour apart.


Another powerful point.....1 hour north or south of me is a whole other weather system...I'm in the Ohio valley and it affects all the weather systems through here...I'm thinking that day or two after a good system I might go 30 miles south a little bonus round potential


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

Kinport said:


> With the goofy labor market we have right now, this might be an especially good year to subcontract you and your truck out to a larger snow removal company. It can be a good way for some outfits to get started.
> 
> to your question,
> At this point in the year, most corporate companies/chains/big box stores already have their snow removal contractors in place, so I would focus on small mom and pop/single location/non corporate type businesses. Getting out and talking to owners/managers directly is the strategy we've used. I've never used traditional forms of advertising/marketing because just getting out and talking to the right people(owners/managers) and asking if you can talk to them about bidding on their snow removal has always kept me at or above my workload capacity.
> ...


Basically like do people do it by sq ft for small lots or by the push or how to price smaller places with no previously contracts


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

Basically like do people do it by sq ft for small lots or by the push or how to price smaller places with no previously contracts


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thought you were going the non-profit route?
> 
> Unfortunately, Kinport is correct. It's getting pretty late to be signing up customers. The ones who haven't signed are not good planners (winter comes every year, roughly the same time) which means they are likely tire kickers.
> 
> Another part of the problem is regionality of pricing. Pricing varies immensely from area to area, even 1 hour apart.


 I'm in Michigan high snow load


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Crazyc321 said:


> I'm in Michigan high snow load


Detoilet does not have a "high snow load".


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Detoilet does not have a "high snow load".


Thanks for the help


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thought you were going the non-profit route?
> 
> Unfortunately, Kinport is correct. It's getting pretty late to be signing up customers. The ones who haven't signed are not good planners (winter comes every year, roughly the same time) which means they are likely tire kickers.
> 
> Another part of the problem is regionality of pricing. Pricing varies immensely from area to area, even 1 hour apart.


In general that's correct, but the way the economy has been the last two years, many businesses have gone up for sale and have just recently sold.
We've gotten several calls for newly owned properties, also, not all contracts end in the middle of the season,
Although this is convenient fir snow, it's not for landscape maint.
We received a few RFP's for all inclusive starting 1-1-22.
a big problem, and this will continue for a few years, getting equipment is a pain in the Richard right now


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

BossPlow2010 said:


> In general that's correct, but the way the economy has been the last two years, many businesses have gone up for sale and have just recently sold.
> We've gotten several calls for newly owned properties, also, not all contracts end in the middle of the season,
> Although this is convenient fir snow, it's not for landscape maint.
> We received a few RFP's for all inclusive starting 1-1-22.
> a big problem, and this will continue for a few years, getting equipment is a pain in the Richard right now





BossPlow2010 said:


> In general that's correct, but the way the economy has been the last two years, many businesses have gone up for sale and have just recently sold.
> We've gotten several calls for newly owned properties, also, not all contracts end in the middle of the season,
> Although this is convenient fir snow, it's not for landscape maint.
> We received a few RFP's for all inclusive starting 1-1-22.
> a big problem, and this will continue for a few years, getting equipment is a pain in the Richard right now


 So do they charge $ by sq ft for season or per push. Example I have a small 10,000 sq ft parking lot. Like 10-15 spots. How are the "usual" payment options for plowing and salting


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Crazyc321 said:


> So do they charge $ by sq ft for season or per push. Example I have a small 10,000 sq ft parking lot. Like 10-15 spots. How are the "usual" payment options for plowing and salting


Has the person requesting the quote told you if they want seasonal or per push pricing? If they haven't then it's up to you to figure oot how you want to quote it, you can give both options.
Terms are typically dictated by the contractor however some commercial customers have their terms and wants the contractor to agree to them but you can challenge them too.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Crazyc321 said:


> Thanks for the help


Any time!


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

BUFF said:


> Has the person requesting the quote told you if they want seasonal or per push pricing? If they haven't then it's up to you to figure oot how you want to quote it, you can give both options.
> Terms are typically dictated by the contractor however some commercial customers have their terms and wants the contractor to agree to them but you can challenge them too.


They want per push, but I'd like to know how I would price it either way.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Crazyc321 said:


> They want per push, but I'd like to know how I would price it either way.


Since you say you've been plowing for years how long do you think it'd take to plow the lot, how much salt and time to salt will it take. Take the time to plow and salt and multiply it by what you need to make hourly to cover all cost, then add the cost for the salt.
Per push I use tiered pricing in 4" increments starting at the trigger depth which is your base cost. Every increment you increase the cost by a percentage, I use 60%.
Seasonal pricing you use your per hour operating cost same as per push as a place to start. Next you need to look at snow fall averages going back at least 5years as a way to determine how many pushes on average is needed. Back east it seems there's more salting events than salting you need to figure oot what the percentage is for salting vs plowing. It's hard for some from ootside your area to tell you how to price since pricing is regional and operating cost from contractor to contract also differ.


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

BUFF said:


> Since you say you've been plowing for years how long do you think it'd take to plow the lot, how much salt and time to salt will it take. Take the time to plow and salt and multiply it by what you need to make hourly to cover all cost, then add the cost for the salt.
> Per push I use tiered pricing in 4" increments starting at the trigger depth which is your base cost. Every increment you increase the cost by a percentage, I use 60%.
> Seasonal pricing you use your per hour operating cost same as per push as a place to start. Next you need to look at snow fall averages going back at least 5years as a way to determine how many pushes on average is needed. Back east it seems there's more salting events than salting you need to figure oot what the percentage is for salting vs plowing. It's hard for some from ootside your area to tell you how to price since pricing is regional and operating cost from contractor to contract also differ.


I plowed for a company. First year running my own truck.


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

BUFF said:


> Since you say you've been plowing for years how long do you think it'd take to plow the lot, how much salt and time to salt will it take. Take the time to plow and salt and multiply it by what you need to make hourly to cover all cost, then add the cost for the salt.
> Per push I use tiered pricing in 4" increments starting at the trigger depth which is your base cost. Every increment you increase the cost by a percentage, I use 60%.
> Seasonal pricing you use your per hour operating cost same as per push as a place to start. Next you need to look at snow fall averages going back at least 5years as a way to determine how many pushes on average is needed. Back east it seems there's more salting events than salting you need to figure oot what the percentage is for salting vs plowing. It's hard for some from ootside your area to tell you how to price since pricing is regional and operating cost from contractor to contract also differ.


We average 50 inches of snow per year. 
we average 10-12 1-5" pushes for above 1"

we average 18-20 salt (pushes plus salt only less than 1")

example A: I have a 10,000 sq ft lot and a 12,400 sq fr lot.

what would be a good per push price & a seasonal price on both lots with and without salt.


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

Crazyc321 said:


> what would be a good per push price & a seasonal price on both lots with and without salt.


Have you figured out how much your going to charge per hour?

How long do you think it will take you to plow these lots?


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

Kinport said:


> Have you figured out how much your going to charge per hour?
> 
> How long do you think it will take you to plow these lots?


Gotta pay my drivers $60 an hour plus cost of salt this year plus wear and tear / gas plus profit, I just wanted some examples so I'm not short changing myself or charging a ridiculous amount. Depending on inches the lot clearing times would change


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

So I dont think anyone here is gonna just tell you what they think your pricing should be. Based on what you’ve told us, I think those lots would take an average operator 10-15 minutes a piece. For smaller lots that take less than 20 minutes, I have a minimum service charge. I think somewhere between 50-75 dollars is appropriate for a minimum service charge, but that might leave you in the poor house, or it might be too high for your area. You also may need to charge more if these lots are way out of the way and you have to spend lots of time getting there


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

Kinport said:


> So I dont think anyone here is gonna just tell you what they think your pricing should be. Based on what you've told us, I think those lots would take an average operator 10-15 minutes a piece. For smaller lots that take less than 20 minutes, I have a minimum service charge. I think somewhere between 50-75 dollars is appropriate for a minimum service charge, but that might leave you in the poor house, or it might be too high for your area. You also may need to charge more if these lots are way out of the way and you have to spend lots of time getting there


I know but there has to be some sort of industry average. Either a combination of inches and sq ft. In the end it's about volume of snow. So how many cubic feet of snow are you moving.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Crazyc321 said:


> Gotta pay my drivers $60 an hour plus cost of salt this year plus wear and tear / gas plus profit,


So your saying I have would have to pay for my own salt if I was working for you? 
And define wear a tear price?
What's the gas profit mean?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Crazyc321 said:


> I know but there has to be some sort of industry average. Either a combination of inches and sq ft. In the end it's about volume of snow. So how many cubic feet of snow are you moving.


There isn't, you're wrong.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Crazyc321 said:


> Gotta pay my drivers $60 an hour plus cost of salt this year plus wear and tear / gas plus profit, I just wanted some examples so I'm not short changing myself or charging a ridiculous amount. Depending on inches the lot clearing times would change


$60/hour in a truck?

Do you have any openings, I'll commute for that kind of money.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> $60/hour in a truck?
> 
> Do you have any openings, I'll commute for that kind of money.


Buddy of mine is paying that…cash. It's a shocking amount for using someone else's vehicle but that's the way it's set up. It works out for him and it has been for many many years. Now, I could never and would never pay that, but for him it works. It's also very risky IRS wise…


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## Dang198231 (Nov 15, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> $60/hour in a truck?
> 
> Do you have any openings, I'll commute for that kind of money.


60$ n hour I want to work with ya too!!!!


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

WIPensFan said:


> Buddy of mine is paying that…cash


Now the truth comes out on how we got the E Jeep....


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Crazyc321 said:


> We average 50 inches of snow per year.
> we average 10-12 1-5" pushes for above 1"
> 
> we average 18-20 salt (pushes plus salt only less than 1")
> ...


You have the recipe to come up with a price on you're own but you need to know your operating cost and thats on you.

You mentioned have to pay your drivers $60/hr, are you subbing this out or are the drivers operating your rigs?

If you're subbing it have them give you a price and add 25%.
If its your rigs and you're paying $60/hr what does that $60/hr cover, plow time or plow time and travel time? Regardless you need to know your operating cost.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Commercial vehicle insurance
With a list of drivers for your INS Co.
To see what your insurance rates are.
Needs to be added to you costs.

you pay $60hr above the table to your employee.
so don’t forget workmans comp INS.


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## Crazyc321 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mark Oomkes said:


> $60/hour in a truck?
> 
> Do you have any openings, I'll commute for that kind of money.


Detroit


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

Crazyc321 said:


> Detroit


Kevlar supplied?


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