# Whats really involved in owning a diesel?



## metallihockey88 (Dec 12, 2008)

ok...heres the deal. I have 2 trucks now, one driver and one for plowing. I plan on dumping both trucks over the summer and picking up one truck to plow and drive so it will be an HD truck since i can use it a little for work in the off season. My question is what is really involved in owning/maintaining a diesel? My dad has been a tech for close to 40 years, has worked on everything there is and he tells me to stay away from diesel, not worth all the maintanance plus think he doesnt wanna work on it when i need help  . but i am between a V8 or Diesel F350 most likely. But the only downfall is a want a truck with the 7.3 if i go diesel cause heard the 6.0 and 6.4 blow but also dont want a truck that old to have 7.3. But whatever, im babbling and mostly all i want is how much more and what maintanance is required by a diesel on top of a normal gas engine...thanx guys


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## frozenokiewi (Dec 26, 2008)

*Diesel will cost less in the long run.*

Filters, Filters, Filters, Filters, Filters...and change the oil then maybe after 200,000 miles you may have some repairs. The cost of the truck and it's upkeep will cost you more than maintaining the engine itself. Heavier brakes and all the price that comes with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. I would have a diesel in a heartbeat and it will be my next purchase as my daily driver. I am looking at a 2003 Excursion right now. The 7.3 is a great engine and no matter how tempting the price on a truck with the 6.0 you need to run for the hills. The buy backs and recalls on that engine alone darn near ruined Fords Power Stroke reputation. Don't rule out a Duramax either, my brother is on his 4th Duramax and has loved every one of them. Hope my little bit of insight helped, I am not a diesel mechanic but I have been around ford and chev diesel truck all my life on our farm and if you can find one with the options and toys you like to be your daily driver and plow snow...what more could you ask? 

Forgot to mention the power and the fuel mileage...far superior to any gas engine take than into account too, it all helps the bottom line in the long run.


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## metallihockey88 (Dec 12, 2008)

yea, power isnt that big of a deal to me since dont tow much, at least not yet, diesel might change that but the fuel mileage is the big thing. I know diesel is a lot more but if it stays within a dollar of regular it would be fine. drove a diesel excursion back from oklahoma for a friend and it got 18mpg and i was flyin at like 80 or more the whole way back and our new 2500 silverado wit a 6.0 at work gets 11mpg empty on the highway which is nuts. yea, been thinkin probably duramax is i go diesel since unfortunately the ford engine problem is really ruinin my choice of a ford since i want one no more then a year or two old


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Ok just get a Dodge with a Cummins. Use Amsoil and change the oil and filter every 20,000 miles. Change the fuel filter every 10,000 miles. That's it. The 5.9 is still the way to go unitl Dodge/Cummins and everyone else gets the new emissions equipment figured out.


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

JDiepstra;693852 said:


> Ok just get a Dodge with a Cummins. Use Amsoil and change the oil and filter every 20,000 miles. Change the fuel filter every 10,000 miles. That's it. The 5.9 is still the way to go unitl Dodge/Cummins and everyone else gets the new emissions equipment figured out.


You have got to be kidding me on changing the oil/filter every 20,000. Unless you've done laboratory tests on your oil to prove this is ok (which I highly doubt it ever will be), then this is crazy. I notice Amsoil rates the change intervals for around that but what does cummins say? I would much rather have my oil tested and get the fact before I went to intervals like that.

My oil, oil filter and fuel filter get chained every 5000-6000 miles and the oil gets set away for an analysis and Total Base Number evaluation. I will be extending my mileage changes until my TBN starts to show the oil does not have a lot of life left in it.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Doakster;693889 said:


> You have got to be kidding me on changing the oil/filter every 20,000. Unless you've done laboratory tests on your oil to prove this is ok (which I highly doubt it ever will be), then this is crazy.
> 
> My oil, oil filter and fuel filter get chained every 5000-6000 miles and the oil gets set away for an analysis and Total Base Number evaluation. I will be extending my mileage changes until my TBN starts to show the oil does not have a lot of life left in it.


No I am not kidding you. Yes I send my oil in for analysis. Amsoil recommends 25,000 miles so I chose to actually go a little shorter than that. My viscosity on 15 weight was 14.8 when it was changed and all the other measurements are within the recommended range except for copper on the very first test, and Amsoil is known for being high in copper on its first use because it cleans out the junk in the system. I know that is not a very technical explaination, but I'm not an oil wizard.


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

JDiepstra;693894 said:


> No I am not kidding you. Yes I send my oil in for analysis. Amsoil recommends 25,000 miles so I chose to actually go a little shorter than that. My viscosity on 15 weight was 14.8 when it was changed and all the other measurements are within the recommended range except for copper on the very first test, and Amsoil is known for being high in copper on its first use because it cleans out the junk in the system. I know that is not a very technical explaination, but I'm not an oil wizard.


Well at least you are doing the right thing by backing it up with an analysis. That change interval is just to long to me to be comfortable. Did you get the TBN number tested? That is the main factor in an indication that the oil has life left in it, TBN is an indication of the oils acidity.

Sorry to get off topic, I'll post up my thoughts on owning a diesel when I have more time and not at work.


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## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

We only run diesels....six 7.3s and three 6.0s. Great trucks, love the power.

Diesels take 15 qts of oil (I change every 3,000-5,000 miles), fuel filters ever 10,000-15,000 miles.

The benefit of the 6.0 is the Torqshift 5r110 trans that IMO is superior to the 4R100 that comes with the 7.3. The Tow/Haul mode on the Torqshift is very nice.


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## ford550 (Nov 9, 2008)

> The benefit of the 6.0 is the Torqshift 5r110 trans that IMO is superior to the 4R100 that comes with the 7.3. The Tow/Haul mode on the Torqshift is very nice


I agree, far superior tranny than the 7.3 4R100.


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## Beegs (Dec 20, 2008)

dieselplace.com for duramax info.


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## JVRLandscaping (Dec 26, 2008)

I'd stay clear of the 6.0. It costs alot in repairs. Theres problems with the EGR coolers breaking in them leading people to think that they blew a head gasket. Also there was a problem with many of the turbos on the 6.0s (also on the 7.3s but not as common) all of the trucks that were put on the car carriers facing the rear of the trailer developed turbo problems because air was flowing through the exhaust and spinning the turbo without oil. It took a couple years and some small time mechanic to figure it out. Ford never recalled the trucks affected by this but put out a factory notice. Now all of the rear-facing trucks have the exhaust pipes capped. I'd stick with a low mileage 7.3.


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

JVRLandscaping;694084 said:


> I'd stay clear of the 6.0. It costs alot in repairs. Theres problems with the EGR coolers breaking in them leading people to think that they blew a head gasket. Also there was a problem with many of the turbos on the 6.0s (also on the 7.3s but not as common) all of the trucks that were put on the car carriers facing the rear of the trailer developed turbo problems because air was flowing through the exhaust and spinning the turbo without oil. It took a couple years and some small time mechanic to figure it out. Ford never recalled the trucks affected by this but put out a factory notice. Now all of the rear-facing trucks have the exhaust pipes capped. I'd stick with a low mileage 7.3.


That's the first time I've heard of that. When you think about it. The air would have to have path (in and out) of flow to spin the turbine wheel. So let's say the air goes up the exhaust pipe to the turbine wheel, it then has to travel through the exhaust manifold and into what ever cylinder has it's exhaust valve open, then the same cylinder has to have that intake valve open(and this only happens for a limited time during valve overlap), then it has to go up into the intercooler and back through the compressor side of the turbo and out the air intake.

Sounds kinds like a long shot to me, and if there is no path for the air to flow then the turbine wheel can't spin.

I would be curious in learning more about the factory notice and what ford said about it thought. I'm not saying it's impossible, but just not likely.


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## Turbodiesel (Aug 5, 2008)

Ever spool up a 6.0 liter and blow away a gasser? Lots of fun


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

JVRLandscaping;694084 said:


> I'd stay clear of the 6.0. It costs alot in repairs. Theres problems with the EGR coolers breaking in them leading people to think that they blew a head gasket. Also there was a problem with many of the turbos on the 6.0s (also on the 7.3s but not as common) all of the trucks that were put on the car carriers facing the rear of the trailer developed turbo problems because air was flowing through the exhaust and spinning the turbo without oil. It took a couple years and some small time mechanic to figure it out. Ford never recalled the trucks affected by this but put out a factory notice. Now all of the rear-facing trucks have the exhaust pipes capped. I'd stick with a low mileage 7.3.


That doesnt make a lick of sense


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

JVRLandscaping;694084 said:


> I'd stay clear of the 6.0. It costs alot in repairs. Theres problems with the EGR coolers breaking in them leading people to think that they blew a head gasket. Also there was a problem with many of the turbos on the 6.0s (also on the 7.3s but not as common) all of the trucks that were put on the car carriers facing the rear of the trailer developed turbo problems because air was flowing through the exhaust and spinning the turbo without oil. It took a couple years and some small time mechanic to figure it out. Ford never recalled the trucks affected by this but put out a factory notice. Now all of the rear-facing trucks have the exhaust pipes capped. I'd stick with a low mileage 7.3.


You must be joking.


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

I'm with you guys this isn't realistic.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

it has to be true, cause it was posted on the internet!!!


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

So to back to the OPs questions about what's really involved in owning/maintaining a diesel.

I'd be interested in why your Father thinks that diesels are much harder and more of a pain to maintain. I'm sure he's worked on just about everything in his 40 years so he should be able to give you a few reasons. I have heard some mechanics say they don't like working on them because they are a little dirtier but hey, get over it. 

My opinions on diesel trucks are these.

Pound for pound a diesel produces more torque, is more reliable, will outlast a gas motor by twice as much if not more, and do it all with just basic maintenance. As far as maintenance goes the only basic extra cost of maintaining one is an oil change for the simple reason the sumps are much bigger, especially if you run synthetic. A synthetic oil change can run up around 80-100bucks depending on the price of the oil and if you do it yourself or not. As far as other high costs to maintain a diesel, compare the parts to a gas motor, you still have injectors, computer, valve trains, etc, etc to fail, so when it comes down to it, it's comparable. 

If you are looking at a 7.3 seriously the only major maintenance is the oil and fuel filter change, and seriously you can change a fuel filter on a 7.3 in about 2-3mins if you are good at it. The 7.3 and 6.0 oil change intervals are important to follow not only for engine wear but for also proper operation of the High Pressure oil system which fires the injectors. 

You also should not be worried about cold starting in any of the modern diesels, any of them will start easily down to 0 degrees when the glow plugs are functioning properly. 

The 7.3 is a tried and true motor with next to no emissions to worry about, and a proven reliability record. My recommendation to you would be to find a 1999-2000 7.3 due to the fact they have stronger Forged rods in them, you can find a very reasonably priced one right now. 

I most likely will not own another gas vehicle after currently owning 3 diesel vehicles. And after seeing and working on many large scale diesels in the 10,20,30000 plus horsepower range will make you a believer real quick that a diesel will out perform a gas motor any day of the week.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

i have 2 diesels left,my original 88, and a 2002. i swore back in 88 i would never buy another gas truck again. and in the past 21 years, i have owned 16 ford diesels. 
the only reason my newest truck, a 2000 F350 is a gas engine, is because i got it for next to nothing. 

the teething problems that the 6.0 had back in 03 are all but unheard of anymore.

in the work shop, we have 26 diesels. 
1 6.4,
6 7.3's,
and 19 6.0's. of those 19 trucks, we only have 2 trucks with any problems, and they are high pressure oil pump problems. the trucks will loose pump oil pressure, and then are hard to start. 

but they both also have over 400,000 miles on them.
maintenance consists of oil changes every 5,000 miles, air filter as needed, brakes, tires, and batteries.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

tjctransport;694368 said:


> i have 2 diesels left,my original 88, and a 2002. i swore back in 88 i would never buy another gas truck again. and in the past 21 years, i have owned 16 ford diesels.
> the only reason my newest truck, a 2000 F350 is a gas engine, is because i got it for next to nothing.
> 
> the teething problems that the 6.0 had back in 03 are all but unheard of anymore.
> ...


4 million miles huh?


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

tjctransport;694368 said:


> but they both also have over 4000,000 miles on them.
> maintenance consists of oil changes every 5,000 miles, air filter as needed, brakes, tires, and batteries.


4000,000?? One extra zero?

You hit the nail on the head about the maintenance and what a coincidence, that's the same stuff a gas needs.

You guys must love fords, what's the line of work they are used for?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Doakster;694383 said:


> You guys must love fords, QUOTE]
> 
> Who doesnt?


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

cretebaby;694390 said:


> Doakster;694383 said:
> 
> 
> > You guys must love fords, QUOTE]
> ...


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

cretebaby;694380 said:


> 4 million miles huh?


whatchu talkinbout willis????


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

heavy construction. crew and supervisor trucks. we have a few dodge diesels, and had a few chevy diesels, but the dodges keep falling apart due to the lousy truck the engine is wrapped in, and the chevys are cars, not trucks. the chevy 1 ton's could not carry half of the weight the ford 1 tons can. they all got traded in real quick.


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## Ford445 (May 26, 2006)

This is actually turning out to be a decent thread. OP, believe it or not, there is some fairly accurate information being displayed, except for maybe the guy telling you never to buy a truck that was put on a trailer backwards .

I have owned both gas and diesel engines. Ive driven all brands. Sure I would love to see a Cummins in a Ford with an Allison transmission, but it doesn't look like hell is freezing over yet. I currently own an early 04 6.0. Yes, they have had their problems, I apparently lucked out because I haven't had one problem yet. I love the torque shift transmission for towing, its awesome, and the power is pretty incredible. Overall the maintenance isn't bad, some things are a little more expensive, but in the long run the diesel will out run, out wear, and out work any gas job on the market. 

If you want a work truck, buy a diesel, and learn how to work on it yourself, I did.

ussmileyflag


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## LawnProLandscapes (Nov 15, 2007)

if you dont want the diesel look at the 6.8 v10 ford offers. i have on and love it. fuel mileage is similar to 5.4 v8 but my next truck will definately be a 6.0 or 6.4 ford diesel.


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## JVRLandscaping (Dec 26, 2008)

My buddy is a diesel mechanic at Fred Beans in Doylestown. Thats what he told me about the 6.0. It didn't sound very believable at first but he also said once they started capping the exhaust pipes then the problem stopped. Coincidence? Call up Fred Beans and ask them


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## metallihockey88 (Dec 12, 2008)

thanx for all the info guys...definately helpin lean more and more towards pickin up a diesel truck. im about 90% sure im gonna go ford. like the duramax and allison combo like most people but keep hearin the truck isnt built too tough. Everyone i know with diesels have fords. so it comes down to going with a truck with the 7.3 or 6.0. i would like to go with a newer truck of course but what would you guys do if you were buying one of the two today?


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## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

I'd buy a 05-07 6.0......better turning, bigger brakes, better/bigger unit bearings, etc than 99-04 trucks.

If you get a 6.0 here's what you need to know as far as filter changes...

Oil and Oil Filter (note: I do not recommend Rotella....I've used it in the past, Valvoline or Mobil perform much better):
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3556

In the winter I now run Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5w-40 Synthetic.

Fuel Filters:
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22930
Note: on a 4x4 you need to use a 6mm hex key as the ratchet will not fit

Air Filter:
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3557


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

metallihockey88;694667 said:


> thanx for all the info guys...definately helpin lean more and more towards pickin up a diesel truck. im about 90% sure im gonna go ford. like the duramax and allison combo like most people but keep hearin the truck isnt built too tough. Everyone i know with diesels have fords. so it comes down to going with a truck with the 7.3 or 6.0. i would like to go with a newer truck of course but what would you guys do if you were buying one of the two today?


I would not think twice about it, another 7.3 would be my choice. Heck I want another older 7.3 to add to the garage. If you really want a newer truck you could try and fine an 03 with a 7.3 in it. Plus it is very easy to make a 99-04 Superduty look like an 05-07 superduty these days.


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## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

7.3 oil change:
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?p=34591#post34591

7.3 air filter:
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3560

Been meaning to do a 7.3 fuel filter write up.....just haven't gotten around to it.


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

As I mentioned the 7.3 fuel filter change is about as easy as it gets. 

Just unscrew the filter top/cap, remove old filter, remove old o-ring on cap, install new filter, install cap will new o-ring and you are done. Some people open up the fuel drain to drain the diesel out of the bowl but you don't have to, the new filter will just absorb what you diesel is in the bowl. Takes all buy 2-3 mins on a bad day for me, I just do it during an oil change while I'm waiting for all the oil to drain out of the pan.


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## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

Yep, it's a 8or10mm(??) socket to remove the plastic Power Stroke cover, then I just use big channel locks for the filter lid (each jaw in one of the slots and turn).


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

DCSpecial;694704 said:


> Yep, it's a 8or10mm(??) socket to remove the plastic Power Stroke cover, then I just use big channel locks for the filter lid (each jaw in one of the slots and turn).


I think it's a 10 or 12mm but I can't remember, I have one of the filter top wrenches from powerstroke shop that works great, it would also be easy to make your own wrench. Before I had that I would take an extension and hammer, then tap on one of the slots and it would come right loose.


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## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

Yep, the wrenches/sockets look nice.

Never had any problems using the channel locks so I haven't been motivated to buy one or make one


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## Dirtboy953B (Aug 24, 2008)

JVRLandscaping;694084 said:


> I'd stay clear of the 6.0. It costs alot in repairs. Theres problems with the EGR coolers breaking in them leading people to think that they blew a head gasket. Also there was a problem with many of the turbos on the 6.0s (also on the 7.3s but not as common) all of the trucks that were put on the car carriers facing the rear of the trailer developed turbo problems because air was flowing through the exhaust and spinning the turbo without oil. It took a couple years and some small time mechanic to figure it out. Ford never recalled the trucks affected by this but put out a factory notice. Now all of the rear-facing trucks have the exhaust pipes capped. I'd stick with a low mileage 7.3.


This is a true fact...I do not mean to get off topic,I have heard of this too and I have had it happen to me,we always cover the exhaust pipes on all of are dozers,hi-lifts,backhoes,trackhoes,tractors.combines when we hual them.next time you are on the highway ans see a new piece of equipment going down the road I'll bet you the exhaust is covered.All the excavating companys around here do the same.John deere had a big probrolem with this back in the late 70s-early80s..shipping tractors from the factory with no cover..next time you go to a tractor pull watch as tractors come and leave they all have there stacks covered.I had a turbo go out on a hi-lift a few years ago.. the guy was not covering the stack and it was even facing backwards.ask antone who hauls alot of equipment or a farm/heavy equipment dealer they will tell you the same........As for owning a diesel...it;s the only way to go I will never own another gas truck.Get a low miles 7.3..they will run forever.


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## snowandgo (Oct 26, 2008)

I like driving my 7.3 diesels, but I'm not sure they are worth it.

Extra money up front, higher maintenance (filters are pricey, 15 qts. of oil) repairs are expensive.
My mileage is not much better maybe enough to cover the higher cost of diesel, but not enough better to pay back the higher costs mentioned above.

They're not harder to work on IMO, especially with the wisdom available at www.thedieselstop.com


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

Dirtboy953B;694722 said:


> This is a true fact...I do not mean to get off topic,I have heard of this too and I have had it happen to me,we always cover the exhaust pipes on all of are dozers,hi-lifts,backhoes,trackhoes,tractors.combines when we hual them.next time you are on the highway ans see a new piece of equipment going down the road I'll bet you the exhaust is covered.All the excavating companys around here do the same.John deere had a big probrolem with this back in the late 70s-early80s..shipping tractors from the factory with no cover..next time you go to a tractor pull watch as tractors come and leave they all have there stacks covered.I had a turbo go out on a hi-lift a few years ago.. the guy was not covering the stack and it was even facing backwards.ask antone who hauls alot of equipment or a farm/heavy equipment dealer they will tell you the same........As for owning a diesel...it;s the only way to go I will never own another gas truck.Get a low miles 7.3..they will run forever.


I'm not saying I don't believe you but on the hi-lift where the turbo went out was it fine before you trailered it and then toast right after?

In my explanation of a flow path for the air I tried to convey the fact that it is very unlikely that you would get flow through the cylinders since the chance of one of the cylinders being in a position which allows valve overlap is very slight.

Granted I realize that it takes very very little flow to spin a turbine wheel, in fact you can blow on some and the wheel will spin, but there HAS to be a flow path of air to allow the wheel to spin. The torturous path that it would have to go through to get in the exhaust and out the intake just seems improbable.

On large commercial ships that I worked on when we went into port for an extended periods of time we would never cover the stacks. I often walked by the turbos on the main engines during my rounds and would see the rotors spinning away due to slight wind coming down the stack or drafts in the engine room. A potential flow path of air out the cylinders is through the cylinder pet cocks which are normally open when an engine is shut down. These turbos were the size of a car, in the 1/4million dollar price tag range, most of this style turbos have internal oil pumps that only really pump oil at high speeds. In fact if we were running only one main engine the other one would be shut down, stack uncovered of course because you want to be able to fire it up when ever you need to, and being under way at 10-15 knots would be similar to a "trailering" affect in providing wind down the stack. It is really unheard of on commercial ships or a power generation facility with diesels to cover the stacks when the main engines are shut down, other than a lay up period. So I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why our little truck turbos can't get towed on a trailer, but on commercial size turbos/diesel with a heavy price tag it's unheard of. It's the same concept just smaller.


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

snowandgo;694732 said:


> I like driving my 7.3 diesels, but I'm not sure they are worth it.
> 
> Extra money up front, higher maintenance (filters are pricey, 15 qts. of oil) repairs are expensive.
> My mileage is not much better maybe enough to cover the higher cost of diesel, but not enough better to pay back the higher costs mentioned above.
> ...


And when a diesel lasts 300,000 to 500,000 with no major issues if taken care of, by then you've had to buy 2-3 other gas trucks, tell me that's cost effective . Case in point, a diesel is better in the long run and doesn't make sense for someone who wants a new truck every 2-3 years.

And the added costs can be recouped if you work on them yourself by a long shot. You may have to sacrifice a little extra cost(not huge) for the trade off of a truck that will outlast and out work it's gas counterpart, to some people that decision has to be made on there own, with good input from people who have experienced in the situation.


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## JVRLandscaping (Dec 26, 2008)

10-15 knots doesn't really compare to 70 mph down a highway. I would assume the exhaust pipe on a ship is atleast a foot and a half or more in diameter. Its going to take alot of wind and pressure to turn a turbine the size of a car as compared to a turbo on a pickup. Also im sure at some point both valves are open on atleast one cylinder in the engine. I didn't say all rear-facing trucks were affected, but when it came to trucks with turbo problems they found they were put on backwards on the truck by looking at the bill of lading. If you take a 3in. piece of pipe with one end capped and hold a blow gun infront of it I'm sure that some air will go in the tube then rebound and exit. Also it would take time to do damage like this, like a 1,000 mile trip. This turbo scenario isn't completely unbelievable.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

Dirtboy953B;694722 said:


> This is a true fact...I do not mean to get off topic,I have heard of this too and I have had it happen to me,we always cover the exhaust pipes on all of are dozers,hi-lifts,backhoes,trackhoes,tractors.combines when we hual them.next time you are on the highway ans see a new piece of equipment going down the road I'll bet you the exhaust is covered.All the excavating companys around here do the same.John deere had a big probrolem with this back in the late 70s-early80s..shipping tractors from the factory with no cover..next time you go to a tractor pull watch as tractors come and leave they all have there stacks covered.I had a turbo go out on a hi-lift a few years ago.. the guy was not covering the stack and it was even facing backwards.ask antone who hauls alot of equipment or a farm/heavy equipment dealer they will tell you the same........As for owning a diesel...it;s the only way to go I will never own another gas truck.Get a low miles 7.3..they will run forever.


the reason for covering the exhaust stacks while in transport is because most owners are anal about dirty machines, and if it rains while in transport, when you fire the machine up, the black exhaust soot is going to go everywhere. 
i ran a lowboy for 25 years. i never covered an exhaust stack, and told the Caterpillar sales rep if he wanted the exhaust capped, than he had to do it, cause i wasn't gonna put it on, or take it off when the machine was delivered.

and ya know what?? not once, never ever, did i ever experience a turbo failure on any of those machines, and all of them are now at least 10 years old, with some of the 35 years old. and most of those machines that are over 20 years old have not had mufflers on them for 20 years. so taking the muffler out of the exuation, there should be more airflow going into the turbo if this was true.

they gave me the crap about the un-oiled turbo spinning, and i told them the same thing. for the airflow to spin the turbo enough to do any damage to it, the air will need someplace to go after it hits the turbo. and there is no way the air is going to go anyplace in the engine, unless there is a very large hole in the side of the cylinder head between the turbo and valves.

the owner of the cat dealer told his salesmen and service dept i was rite and they were wrong, and to leave me alone.

the same thing goes for pickups. there is no way that the turbo will spin from airflow across the tailpipe while in transit.

that mechanic at Fred Bean Ford was just blowing smoke out of his butt, waiting to see is anyone would believe him!!


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

snowandgo;694732 said:


> I like driving my 7.3 diesels, but I'm not sure they are worth it.
> 
> Extra money up front, higher maintenance (filters are pricey, 15 qts. of oil) repairs are expensive.
> My mileage is not much better maybe enough to cover the higher cost of diesel, but not enough better to pay back the higher costs mentioned above.
> ...


Anyone that says it costs more to maintain a diesel must not really know how little it costs to maintain a diesel

Yes a oil change is more but it lasts longer

the price advantage of diesel isnt as much as it used to be but it is still cheaper to run diesel

i have 285k on my 7.3 with no noticable reduction in power. Would i be saying that if i had a gas engine with 285k? Doubt it would even still have its first engine!


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

JVRLandscaping;694792 said:


> *10-15 knots doesn't really compare to 70 mph down a highway. I would assume the exhaust pipe on a ship is atleast a foot and a half or more in diameter. Its going to take alot of wind and pressure to turn a turbine the size of a car as compared to a turbo on a pickup.* Also im sure at some point both valves are open on atleast one cylinder in the engine. I didn't say all rear-facing trucks were affected, but when it came to trucks with turbo problems they found they were put on backwards on the truck by looking at the bill of lading. If you take a 3in. piece of pipe with one end capped and hold a blow gun infront of it I'm sure that some air will go in the tube then rebound and exit. Also it would take time to do damage like this, like a 1,000 mile trip. This turbo scenario isn't completely unbelievable.


Try 4-5 ft in diameter, even bigger depending on the size of the ship/engine. It actually doesn't take much to spin the rotor of a large turbo, you can easily do it by hand and with a little wind the inertia and weight of the rotor will keep it going, but like I said it's never considered a problem.

I wish someone could come up with the Ford document that was spoken of to add some documentation to this issue.


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## metallihockey88 (Dec 12, 2008)

Doakster;694768 said:


> And when a diesel lasts 300,000 to 500,000 with no major issues if taken care of, by then you've had to buy 2-3 other gas trucks, tell me that's cost effective . Case in point, a diesel is better in the long run and doesn't make sense for someone who wants a new truck every 2-3 years.
> 
> And the added costs can be recouped if you work on them yourself by a long shot. You may have to sacrifice a little extra cost(not huge) for the trade off of a truck that will outlast and out work it's gas counterpart, to some people that decision has to be made on there own, with good input from people who have experienced in the situation.


thats the biggest kicker right now, with diesel prices the diesel trucks are cheaper then the gas ones and the dealer will cut any deal they can to sell them, they cant give them away. i dont drive as much as i used to ( only about 20k a year) and im very anal about maintanance on my cars and trucks so not to worried about that either. just hear there is a lot more involved in maintaining a diesel and as you stated parts cost a lot more. but thats not a big deal, i like workin on stuff so will do as much as i can myself. as for my dad shootin it down, he doesnt like workin on trucks since hes not very tall and he works on em all day long, doesnt wanna deal with mine too, but is always willing to help if i really need it. hes been workin on cars for so long i think hes just sick of it in general. but thanks for all the info guys...looking around as we speak but of course the way things usually work for me, my windshield got cracked by a rock and someone sideswiped my truck in a parking lot, both yesterday  so gotta get that stuff fixed before i can trade in/sell my truck for the diesel. not to mention there goes about 1000 dollars of my down payment, oh well


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

tjctransport;694913 said:


> they gave me the crap about the un-oiled turbo spinning, and i told them the same thing. for the airflow to spin the turbo enough to do any damage to it, the air will need someplace to go after it hits the turbo. and there is no way the air is going to go anyplace in the engine, unless there is a very large hole in the side of the cylinder head between the turbo and valves.


TJC....are you playing mind games with me today and witting my thoughts exactly as I'm thinking them....I'm right on track with your statements and looks like you have proved it through years of experience. It doesn't take a smart person to realize the flow of air required through an engine/turbo to make it spin freely.

And on my point about valve overlap, the engine would have to be stops EXACTLY on one cylinders correct rotation for this to occur making it not likely and I still don't think you could flow air through the motor due to the torturous path through all the components.

I chalk this one up as Urban Legend.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

metallihockey88;694972 said:


> thats the biggest kicker right now, with diesel prices the diesel trucks are cheaper then the gas ones and the dealer will cut any deal they can to sell them, they cant give them away. i dont drive as much as i used to ( only about 20k a year) and im very anal about maintanance on my cars and trucks so not to worried about that either. just hear there is a lot more involved in maintaining a diesel and as you stated parts cost a lot more. but thats not a big deal, i like workin on stuff so will do as much as i can myself. as for my dad shootin it down, he doesnt like workin on trucks since hes not very tall and he works on em all day long, doesnt wanna deal with mine too, but is always willing to help if i really need it. hes been workin on cars for so long i think hes just sick of it in general. but thanks for all the info guys...looking around as we speak but of course the way things usually work for me, my windshield got cracked by a rock and someone sideswiped my truck in a parking lot, both yesterday  so gotta get that stuff fixed before i can trade in/sell my truck for the diesel. not to mention there goes about 1000 dollars of my down payment, oh well


I would like to find some of these diesels trucks that are cheaper than gas trucks


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JVRLandscaping;694084 said:


> Also there was a problem with many of the turbos on the 6.0s (also on the 7.3s but not as common) all of the trucks that were put on the car carriers facing the rear of the trailer developed turbo problems because air was flowing through the exhaust and spinning the turbo without oil. It took a couple years and some small time mechanic to figure it out. Ford never recalled the trucks affected by this but put out a factory notice. Now all of the rear-facing trucks have the exhaust pipes capped. I'd stick with a low mileage 7.3.


Horse hockey.

Links for proof please?

If this is the case, the turbo farting caused by no waste gate valve would be causing way, WAY, WAY more issues than this alleged crap.

PS The problem with the turbos was the vanes would stick or get sticky. The solution was a redesigned turbo vane with grooves to reduce\eliminate the sticking problem. Well, that and Ford just couldn't engineer worth a crap. The International version has basically none of the problems the Ford 6.0 has.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Somebody should warn this guy about the sudden, strong desire to modify your truck into a dragster from the moment you feel the extra power from a fueling box, or hear the turbo whistle through an opened up intake. Some guys have the will to resist, but many go paycheck to paycheck wondering what is the next thing they can buy for their truck!


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

JDiepstra;694982 said:


> Somebody should warn this guy about the sudden, strong desire to modify your truck into a dragster from the moment you feel the extra power from a fueling box, or hear the turbo whistle through an opened up intake. Some guys have the will to resist, but many go paycheck to paycheck wondering what is the next thing they can buy for their truck!


Amen to that!


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## metallihockey88 (Dec 12, 2008)

JDiepstra;694982 said:


> Somebody should warn this guy about the sudden, strong desire to modify your truck into a dragster from the moment you feel the extra power from a fueling box, or hear the turbo whistle through an opened up intake. Some guys have the will to resist, but many go paycheck to paycheck wondering what is the next thing they can buy for their truck!


oh believe me, already looked into bullydog and other computer systems before this even started


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## metallihockey88 (Dec 12, 2008)

cretebaby;694979 said:


> I would like to find some of these diesels trucks that are cheaper than gas trucks


take a look at autotrader for the chicagoland area. i cant believe how cheap some of these trucks are myself...of course the v-10s are always cheap but the v8's are big dough compared to the diesels.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

metallihockey88;694991 said:


> oh believe me, already looked into bullydog and other computer systems before this even started


Pretty easy to get into 'trouble'.

Especially if you listen to those who don't know what they're talking about. 

Or those that 'heard' from someone that this or that happened.

PS My Bobcat must be really screwed from the turbo spinning backwards, I load it backwards on the trailer with the exhaust facing directly into the wind as it's being towed.

PPS Wonder if I'll be having turbo problems with my trucks after not covering the tailpipes after the 60 MPH winds on Sunday? Better get them all into the shop post haste.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

metallihockey88;694993 said:


> take a look at autotrader for the chicagoland area. i cant believe how cheap some of these trucks are myself...of course the v-10s are always cheap but the v8's are big dough compared to the diesels.


Are you sure you are comparing apples to apples as far as the rest of the truck


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;694994 said:


> Pretty easy to get into 'trouble'.
> 
> Especially if you listen to those who don't know what they're talking about.
> 
> ...


What do you mean Mark? He should be able to stack a couple chips and run 150 horse injectors and not have to worry about the stock tranny one bit. 

And don't backdrag too fast or the wind will go up your tailpipe and ruin your engine!


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;694994 said:


> Pretty easy to get into 'trouble'.
> 
> Especially if you listen to those who don't know what they're talking about.
> 
> ...


In all honesty we always put a bag over our exhaust when pulling our tractors or skid in a way that wind will be forced down the ehaust pipe and my dad always told me that it would wreck the turbo, maybe it's an old wise tale. I'm certain though that this had nothing to do with Ford's problem as Mark said though, just thought I would tell my little story.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

JD Dave;695012 said:


> In all honesty we always put a bag over our exhaust when pulling our tractors or skid in a way that wind will be forced down the ehaust pipe and my dad always told me that it would wreck the turbo, maybe it's an old wise tale. I'm certain though that this had nothing to do with Ford's problem as Mark said though, just thought I would tell my little story.


So in Canada tymusic it's and old wise tale huh? In Michigan we say old wive's tale. Go figure. ussmileyflag


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

JDiepstra;695021 said:


> So in Canada tymusic it's and old wise tale huh? In Michigan we say old wive's tale. Go figure. ussmileyflag


You know what, it could be wive's tale, I have been known to be wrong but not very often.


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## metallihockey88 (Dec 12, 2008)

cretebaby;694997 said:


> Are you sure you are comparing apples to apples as far as the rest of the truck


well, when i say big dough i mean they are basically equally priced when compared since the diesels are usually 4-5k more for the same truck with the diesel engine.


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## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

Say no to Bullydog for a PSD..... LOL
There are better options out there.


For the 7.3 a custom chip from Tony Wildman, TS, DP, DI, Cale @ BTS, etc.. is where it's at for power.

For the 6.0.......SCT from Innovative, Doug @ GoGo, etc are the perferred methods of power.


For the 7.3 if you mod it, use the power and work the truck, get ready to buy a built trans from BTS.

For the 6.0, not uncommon for them to have head gasket/head bolt issues when modded and working hard. ARP head studs are a very popular mod.

All my work trucks are stock as far as tuning/programming goes.
My 01 "play truck" is modded....with a built BTS trans.
While I wouldn't mind modding my 07 6.0, I really can't afford to be without the truck if something were to happen in regards to the heads, and I like my warranty.


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

DCSpecial;695087 said:


> Say no to Bullydog for a PSD..... LOL
> There are better options out there.
> 
> For the 7.3 a custom chip from Tony Wildman, TS, DP, DI, Cale @ BTS, etc.. is where it's at for power.
> ...


You took the words right out of my mouth.


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

X2
I have only "big oil" to do on mine and it is done with the mods.
00 F350 Tymar, GT38r, DI up pipes, DI complete fuel system, Racor spin on fuel filter, Mini me's,, BTS, 6.0 trans cooler, DP Tuner, 4" exhaust, gages, 04 face lift.


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

Ggg6;695756 said:


> X2
> I have only "big oil" to do on mine and it is done with the mods.
> 00 F350 Tymar, GT38r, DI up pipes, DI complete fuel system, Racor spin on fuel filter, Mini me's,, BTS, 6.0 trans cooler, DP Tuner, 4" exhaust, gages, 04 face lift.


That's pretty much the same set up I want, except I know my PMRs won't hold it. In the future hopefully I will have *** or Beans build me a motor in the 500-600hp range with a single charger


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

JD Dave;695028 said:


> You know what, it could be wive's tale, I have been known to be wrong but not very often.


I thought I was wrong once too, but it turned out I was right.


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

I know Ryan and Zane they both build a very good PSD. Can't go wrong with either shop.


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## cocco78 (Dec 12, 2003)

I've owned a 1997 12V Dodge, and a 1999 24V Dodge, and a 2000 7.3L Powerstroke, in that order. All very nice running trucks. I honestly think the 12V Cummins is probably the best diesel I've had. It was a little slow but would chug along all day, pulling anything, anywhere. Unloaded it would get 20mpg highway with 35" tires, and towing my Jeep on a flatbed with a truck camper in the bed i'd still get 14... Never had a problem with anything. The 24V I didn't have that long so I can't really comment on it. I loved the power on the 7.3L tho, that thing was a beast. I also ran 35" tires on that and it would still get 18+ on the highway, 12 pulling my jeep. $90 for rotella and a filter and the penzoil quick lube every 5-7000 miles depending on conditions. A fuel filter every fall before winter, and also get used to changing glow plug relays on the 7.3L. I kept blowing relays until I finally got one for a larger international truck. It would easily start down to teens without being plugged in, below that and it was a beast to start. My old 12v cummins would start unplugged at any temp, just had to cycle the heating grid a couple times.

But I wouldn't buy a diesel just because the last longer, gas motors can last just as long. Our trucks at work usually get run to 300k before we get rid of them. We just retired a 97 Chevy 1/2 ton with the 5.7 Vortec, the 3rd trans went at 275k miles and they didn't want to fix it. Original motor, penzoil every 5,000 miles, never burned a drop of oil, and could still lite up the tires if you tapped the gas. One of my co workers got it and put in a new trans and it has over 300k miles on it. We retired a 1999 chevy with the small V8, not the 5.3 but 4.6??, at 310k miles also in just as good of shape. Then a 01 F150 with the 5.4L V8 at 250k but that one burned a little oil...

We just got an 08 Dodge with the 6.7L in it and that truck is very very nice when its out of the shop, lots of problems with the new trucks. They are all so choked down with emisions stuff that they just don't work well. The only way I'd ever get a diesel again would be to get an older 7.3L Powerstroke, or 12V Cummins. If I bought new it would hands down be a gasser, no question about it.


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

I have a 12v 6bt and a 4bt, the 6bt has 480k on it in a truck that weighs 16,000. The 4bt is in my Jeep. I agree I really like the 12v engine a lot. Knock on wood no GPR issues with my 2000 7.3.


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## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

Ggg6;695835 said:


> The 4bt is in my Jeep. .


Nice...that was one of the combos that came up in my "ultimate driveway rig" conversation I was having with a buddy of mine


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

If you want to check out one of the most outstanding "driveway rigs" with a 4BTA conversion then check out this M37, this guy does outstanding work, you can also check out all his other cummins conversions at the top of the page. He's working on his 4th cummins conversion right now.

Just to name a few things on this truck

-4bta cummins
-NV4500 5 Speed 
-NP-205 
-Full Disk brake conversion with hydro boost
-Hydraulic Front mount winch
-Rear Electric Winch
-Custom Interior with GPS/Navigation System
-Custom fabbed Auxiliary fuel tank
-ARB Air Lockers
-Tool box

Scroll through the pics and click on them they tell you about each stage of the rebuild. Sticking a plow on this would almost not be fair, I personally I wouldn't do it to a beautiful truck like this.

http://imageevent.com/moosecreekmaple/m37project


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

Very nice M37!! and a very nice web site.

My 4bt Jeep TJ has a TH475, NP205/203 doubler, Sterling 10.25 rear/Detroit locker BTF cover and truss, Dana 60 front /Detroit locker and alloy axles BTF cover and truss, Double triangulated 4 link rear, 3 link front, Ramsey winch, 38.5/14.50/17 truxus tires, lastly HWMVEE tail lights. I just need to finish the engine swap. I lost my shop space so the project is on hold.


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

Ggg6;695915 said:


> Very nice M37!! and a very nice web site.
> 
> My 4bt Jeep TJ has a TH475, NP205/203 doubler, Sterling 10.25 rear/Detroit locker BTF cover and truss, Dana 60 front /Detroit locker and alloy axles BTF cover and truss, Double triangulated 4 link rear, 3 link front, Ramsey winch, 38.5/14.50/17 truxus tires, lastly HWMVEE tail lights. I just need to finish the engine swap. I lost my shop space so the project is on hold.


You knew I was going to ask this....where's the pics?


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## Mid-Ohio Scaper (Aug 17, 2008)

The 6.4's aren't all bad. The power you can get out of them is great! I do have to agree about the emissions, the EPA has really choked all of diesel's out with all of their bullsh*t regulations. Also the 6.4's I think are going to be a real PITA to work on, unless you have a lift to raise the cab up to work on the damn thing.


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

Let me see about taking some new pics. The old pics are on a computer that has crashed so I don't know if I can retrieve them.


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## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

Ggg6;695915 said:


> Very nice M37!! and a very nice web site.
> 
> My 4bt Jeep TJ has a TH475, NP205/203 doubler, Sterling 10.25 rear/Detroit locker BTF cover and truss, Dana 60 front /Detroit locker and alloy axles BTF cover and truss, Double triangulated 4 link rear, 3 link front, Ramsey winch, 38.5/14.50/17 truxus tires, lastly HWMVEE tail lights. I just need to finish the engine swap. I lost my shop space so the project is on hold.


With smaller tires and a 8'2" V.....you have my ultimate driveway rig


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

DCSpecial;696327 said:


> With smaller tires and a 8'2" V.....you have my ultimate driveway rig


Funny thing is that truck would probably handle that plow pretty well, M37s are rated as a 3/4 ton truck, a custom frame mount would have to be made though, as well as head light plugs or splices. I run a 7.5 motor driven hydraulic pump on the front of mine and in low gear you can push a mountain of snow just as much as my Superduty but not as fast.

My M37 has rescued the Superduty a few times in a muddy situation, it will tow it up a 20-30degree incline without using any throttle, just letting it idle. 5.88 gears help out just a little

See now I didn't say all gas motors are bad, and I'm glad a I have my M37 as a little work horse, although it's down right now waiting for a special 12V starter from Canada and a new block heater


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

I may be wrong but isn't the weak link the axles? I can't remember if it is shafts or the housings.


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

Ggg6;696360 said:


> I may be wrong but isn't the weak link the axles? I can't remember if it is shafts or the housings.


Weak link in the M37 you mean? That's the first time I've heard of the axles being an issue, they're pretty stout.


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

i am not positive, but memory wants to say that the only weak link in a M37 is the loose nut behind the wheel!!


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## Doakster (Aug 15, 2008)

tjctransport;696572 said:


> i am not positive, but memory wants to say that the only weak link in a M37 is the loose nut behind the wheel!!


Oh boy, you hit the nail on the head


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## Ggg6 (Oct 14, 2003)

Yes I was talking about the M37, but I am not positive. There were so many ex military vehicles I was interested in years ago it is hard to remember all the details.


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