# Allison update (this can happen to you)



## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

Dealer called me this morning and said the truck was done....the tranny wasn't smoked. (but i am) Heres the deal:
They said the truck got a "low voltage spike" and what that does is shut off the Allison tranny (won't do anything) to prevent it from exploding.
Service manager said when i raised my plow the voltage dropped to low and thats what caused the tranny to kick out of gear and wouldn't go into any gear. 
I said thats funny cause we didn't have snow for 2 weeks and the plow wasn't even on the truck when it happened, then he went on to tell me that this combo (8.1L/Allison) is NOT meant for snowplowing and chevy probably wouldn't cover it under warranty, because the plow is too big !!(how the hell do they know how big my plow is ?) Chevrolet only recomends a 7 1/2' plow on a 2500hd. 

Thier fix: They don't have one right now. They said that maybe adding an extra battery would help to keep the voltage up. Told me that it would cost around $180 for them to install. I said (well i can't type it here) this is not my problem and i am not paying for it wether it would help or not. Heres the best part,,they tried getting me to pay $65 for having the truck towed in (chevy only covers $100 of a towing bill) and mine was $165. They are the ones who told me to have the truck towed. 

I think they probably lost 5 or 6 customers because they were stupid enough to tell me all this in the showroom. You should have seen the people looking at me,,some came closer to listen ,,some walked out the door,, we received a foot of snow since sat., i have been in a backup truck for 2 days with about 6 hrs of sleep and your going to fill my head with this BS 

I do feel bad in a way because my good friend is the GM at the dealership and i think he's going to pay the $65, but on the other hand i don't because he is the one that talked me into this truck and tranny combo. 

Well i plowed all nite and didn't have any problems,,my voltage gauge drops to 12 when i use the plow,,in case anyone is wondering.


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

That SUCKS!voltage spikes,7.5' plows on HD'swhat the hexx?whats next,the thing shuts down after 65mph?I've been a diehard chevy guy but i am slowly losing faith with some of these stories.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I'm not an Allison expert,but I think that may be a load of crap.I know they have a lot of electronics on the truck,but I thought the tranny would still work if the electronics died.Like stuck in second or third gear or something like that.I don't think it was a voltage spike,but maybe a bad TCM.

I found this on the web,it may help,if it ever does it again.

If you are confronted with an Allison LCT 1000 that does not move in forward or reverse try unplugging the gray connector at the TCM and shifting the transmission again. If you now get Reverse and D3 it is a control problem with the TCM.


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## Barkleymut (Jan 10, 2000)

Sure am glad I didn't get the Allison tranny. 

Anyways sounds like the problem is with the dealer. I'll bet if you contact GM you will get a better response. I would no longer deal with the dealer. They obviously don't understand a darn thing and you should contact GM. The best way to deal with someone is to 1)reinforce their product then 2) tell them the problem.

Example: I love the way the Allison shifts and I think it is the best darn trany in the 3/4 ton market but I have had some problems with mine. If that doesnt work then you have to deal with lawyers who are as crooked as the letter Z.


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## Grshppr (Dec 2, 2002)

I agree with wyldmanm, the tranny should still work when it has had a "voltage spike". I have a 4l80E in my 2500, and had a similar thing happen, but the tranny goes into "limp mode". It would shift bad, and had no OD, but still worked. I might be wrong here, but don't trucks have voltage regulators and fuses to compensate for extreme changes in voltage?


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## long0 (Jul 11, 2002)

Did they say what you could do to get your truck moving if it happened again? Disconnect the battery, something like that? 

Andy


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## ChicagoSnow (Oct 29, 2001)

Someone please explain why my Ford F-350 CC (1 of 4 F-350's) has never given me the slightest trans problem?

I learned the hard way with GM products.............. all the "tainted dealer explanations" of why the plow truck they just sold you should not be plowing snow?????

I even had one of the Chevy dealer service tech's ask me at the time why didn't I go with a Ford????????

I replied , I know........I KNOW!


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## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

I own an Ford an could not disagree more with the above. I have heard of numerous problems with all three manufacturers. To state that one does and one doesn't is kidding yourself. Just look at the posts by SDLawndawg in the Ford section 38k, out warranty and about 3k in repairs.

They all suck, is my opinion.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Your right,all trucks will have some problems,but it's a bitter pill to swallow when your dealer or the mfg screws you over.Especially when they blame it on "the plow".Easiest way for them to shift the blame to you.


I've been fortunate,we have quite a few Dodge's.and all have original trannies.My truck just went over 350,000 on the stock trans behind a Cummins,and it's still going.So much for all those people who say the Dodge trannies are junk.


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## gslam88 (Feb 19, 2002)

The problem that as that I understand is partially that Chevy uses the 1000 tranny, but that is not the tranny that allison is known for as being bullet proof is I think the 3000 series... I think not sure... but as most auto manufactors or should I say most manufactors do that try to skimp a little here a litte there to hold the cost down... in doing so it does not last as long... .

What would happen to the auto industry if that did build a vehicle that could go 1,000,000 with out any repairs.... that could withstand a 40mph accident with out any damage...

If you do a search engine search on the allison and say 2500 problems... you find a lot of them out there... .

as I looked real quickly dodge decided not to use the allison 1000 motor for the cummins diesel as an option... stayed with the 47RE so it could handle the torgue output...

http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b022601.htm

just my .02 IMO

Pete


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

gslam88 

Your dead on about the 1000.People seemed to be buying it because of the Allison name,and the bulletproof reputation.The input torque capacity is pretty low too.A minor mod like propane or a chip,is enough to do some serious damage to that stock Allison.Same reason why Dodge didn't use it,although the 47RE wasn't much better stock.

Doesn't mean it's a bad tranny though,it will do just fine it a stock application.I'm sure the aftermarket will make it much stronger,just look at what they have done for the Dodge and Ford trannies.


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## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

long0-- they said the only way to get it to move again is for them to hook it to the computer and reprogram the system.

I did put a call into Allison in Buffalo today and they want to see the truck tomorrow,with the plow on it.

ChicagoSnow ---> the company i worked for (for 9 yrs) before had 11 Fords (94's-97's) . I got sick of replacing twin I beams, oil pans, exhaust manifolds,,u joints etc. 
I'm not sure how the new fords are,but my past expirence's with them was not fun. 

It really doesn't matter what make anybody buys were all going to have some problems sooner or later and i rather have them when i don't have to pay for it.

heck my 90' has 160,000 miles on it and i have only done regular maint. on it for the past 4 yrs and it gets beat on pretty heavy. 

wyldman--- i bought the Allison because i needed a big block for the heavy towing i do all summer and i hate shifting gears. This tranny has some awesome features when pulling a trailer,,the braking, the shift points..but it just gives me problems in the snow. 

I'll update more after i go to Allison.


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## Joey D (Jan 6, 2002)

Try posting this on the Diesel page. There is a Allison tech that hangs out there and will help you solve your problem. Steve O is his name I think. You need to be a member to post so I will post this is you want. 
E mail me what you want to post.
[email protected]


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## gene gls (Dec 24, 1999)

I have a Mitsubshi FE HD that has an Allison tranny, don't know the model. If I shift too fast back and forth when plowing the tranny's electronics gets confused and a light comes on in the dash,it goes into a "creep" mode until I stop and shut off the engin and restart. The tranny resets itself like nothing has happened. Its a scare when it happens.

Gene


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## ChicagoSnow (Oct 29, 2001)

Gene,

How do you like the Mitsubishi?????

Let me know pros and cons.

Thank you,

ChicagoSnow


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

As far as the 1000 series trannies go, it is a new line of trannies made just for the Gm light duty line up. Ford and Dodge didnt use the trannies because GM has exclusive rights to it.
Anyway back to issue at hand. It does sound like a huge line of BS being thrown at you. How does an 8' plow draw more power than a 7.5'. Remember that according to law, unless they can prove that an aftermarket item caused the damage, they have to cover it. Even if it is a snowplow. Especially if the truck has the plow prep package.
Dino


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## gslam88 (Feb 19, 2002)

Plowking, 


per the article that I previous posted 

When I contacted Allison, they stated that the company is "committed to selling to other OEM's (Original Equipment Manufacturer)." To prepare for the added demand the company recently built a new manufacturing facility in Baltimore.


So I am not sure if that is the reason dodge opted out


Check and see if there is a lemon law ... I beleive in reguards to that .. the truck would have to be in for service 30 days or more and or 3 times or more for the same excact problem... not sure thoght.... might be worth a shot 


Pete


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## SnowMatt13 (Jan 8, 2003)

Earthscapes...
1. True to the point. If dealer help is not up to par, call the 800# in the back of your owners manual.
2. If your truck has the plow prep option, they cannot blame your plow for any damages (except things like reckless plowing). Plow prep means that Chevy equipped the truck to handle a snow plow. They CANNOT tell you they won't warranty something they think the plow did . Unless it was caused by reckless plowing as stated earlier. I would call and state that the truck has a prep pkg, therefore Chevy allowed it to handle a plow, and should take responsibility. They cannot refuse to warranty it!!!!
3. Anyone...NEVER buy a truck for plowing that does not have plow prep. If you have a dealer that may not want to help, it's an easy out for them not to warranty stuff they should!!
4. If they refuse to warranty something, ask to talk to your area service rep., they have to come meet you and discuss concerns.


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## Foz (Mar 27, 2001)

Dealer is FOS! I have 2 2500HD GMC with 8 FT Western Pro, both trucks are 8.1/Allison & no problems, call another dealer, or shove your foot in your servive mrg's A<<


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## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

Heres an update. The truck went to Allison today (with a copy of the dealers paperwork) they laughed when they read it. The guy told me i could run the truck on 9 volts till the truck stopped running and it would never shut off the transmission. He said that i needed a new updated neutral safety switch to replace the one i have. He showed me where the connecter takes in water and that causes the problem. I said great can you change it and he said no only the dealer can under warrantey,,because Allison builds the tranny for general motors. He said call your dealer and talk to them and tell them that you brought the truck here. Btw they didn't charge me anything for 1 1/2 hrs in thier shop, so i thought that was pretty cool.

So i call the dealer and tell them the what the problem is and how i found out and they tell me well we haven't heard of any neutral safety switch problems,,so we can't help you. I asked him if he could check into for me and he says no. So i told him he is a F-in a-hole and their service su&ks. So now i'm really steamed,,so i start calling dealerships in the area and have an appointment on monday.
What really ticks me off is that my friend is the GM at this dealership and his hands are tied when it comes to the service dept. Except for when it does come in for service it goes to the top of the list and i found out he ate the $65.00.

oh yeah the truck has snow plow prep.


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## gslam88 (Feb 19, 2002)

I would look into finding out who the regional service guy is ... the rep for gm... get a hold of him, probably thru gm via the 800 number.. when there is a problem gm or what ever manufactor always sends a rep from the company not the dealer to assist I believe... I could have it wrong.. .but its worth a shot 



PEte


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## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

Did you present Allison's paperwork to prove their findings? I would also recommend seeking the regional service rep. If the tranny mfgr says to replace it, surely the dealership can read that. In my experiences, if you cannot beat the lower guys, keep going higher until one of them will listen. Eventually you will ***** loud enough that someone in CS will hear and do everything possible to fix the problem..... the problem these days is that they give you such a run-around trying to find help. Maybe there is a TSB that they are hiding, noone want to do warranty work, it doesnt pay the tech well, and it doenst generate much revenue for the dealership. customer service is a thing of the pasy... good luck, keep us posted.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Good to see you got to the bottom of this,I didn't think it was the problemyou described earlier.

Now that you know what it is,just go to another dealer,and tell they my truck won't start in park every once and a while.Have to wiggle the shifter and put in it neutral.They will replace your neutral safety switch.


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## ProSno (Nov 24, 2001)

Earthscapes, I am a ford man-(not saying anybetter just my preferance) but if my dealer told me that crap after I was at the manufacturers shop for the tranny I would be on the phone to Ford motor Co. in a heartbeat. You really should call GM and climb up the ladder till you get someone. They might just want to replace this jerk. Who knows how many people are having problems getting screwed by him. Its a problem and the trucks in warrentee-FIX IT bottom line. Let us know how you make out and good luck.:realmad:


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

You know it comes down to this.You bought this truck in good faith that it will perform the job that it was ment for,you paid good money, and it's still under warranty so why is there so many problems with getting it fixed in a timely and profesional manor??Write and cal to GM and let them know.


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## BigRedBarn (Jan 4, 2003)

I wish I had found this site before I ordered my new 2003 Silverado 2500 HD with 8100 and Allison 5-speed automatic. I think I might have stayed with the 6000 base engine. I do love the way the Allison shifts, so quick and without jerking. What a smooth tranny; I've never had any brand of automatic shift this nicely.

I haven't used the new Western 7.5' plow yet; we're still running the old truck until we sell it. I did order the 2nd battery on the new truck; both are 660 CCA, I think.

Any more advice on this new truck? Right now my brother is driving it because his 2002 1500 Z71 needed $1200 in repairs (NOT covered by GM warranty) because of fuel contamination. Needed a new fuel pump, had to drop the tank and clean it, etc.

He has all the receipts from the local Mobil station, where he buys ALL his gas, so he's going after them. He was lucky, as the contamination didn't get to the fuel injectors. Had it, the cost would've been out of site. Anyone else having trouble with gas quality in Western NY? 

The Chevy dealer says they can't keep up with all the contaminated fuel systems they're seeing, and they don't think it's just one gas station, but possibly the local tank farm in Grand Island or wherever it's located. It's not fun in this type of weather to be without your vehicle. We're lucky we could loan him our new truck for the week.


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## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

I buy all my gas at Noco and have for the past 3 yrs. I have never had a problem with it.


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## Earthscapes (Feb 2, 2001)

Well after spending 4 hours at the dealership i think they figured it out. It wasn't the plow,,though they did keep moving it for about 1 hr with the computer hooked to it, to try to get it to kill the truck and it was not the tranny, well not totally anyway.

They replaced the netural safety switch and reprogrammed the PCM. Heres what the service sheet said:

If wiring tests ok, determine if condition occurred on hot or cold start. If so, reprogram PCM and TCM with lastest software changes. On start PCM not setting full voltage signal to alternator causing TCM to "see" low voltage and shutting down module for fault reprogram module.

Plowed the commercial lots this morning and everything seemed to work ok,, so i think they figured it out.


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## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

Glad to hear that they at least fixed it. Whether or not its fixed I suppose we'll find out. From the wording of the service sheet I couldnt tell if they reflashed the PCM/TCM, i would think that would need to be done after replacing the NSS. At least it didnt need a new tranny! I assume this was covered under warranty?


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## 66Construction (Jan 26, 2001)

Earthscapes Glad to hear you got to the bottom of that. 

The service you got doesnt suprise me. I have an 02 with the 6.0 just over 12k and the other day after I had been driving around all day it just decided not to idle. Every time I started it, it just died unless I kept my foot on the gas. Called the dealer they said yeah ok bring it in well get to it in a couple days we're busy. What about the plow and sander on the truck I kinda need them! They didn't seem to care much, with all the trucks they sell lately they don't need to offer good service. My trusty mechanic who's up at 3am to fix the trucks in the snow figured it out in 2 hours for 50 bucks, something dumb that he didn't even need parts for. Thaks a lot GM.
Casey


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

66, Im curious as to what it was. EGR valve possibly? What did he do to fix it? Please find out and post it, I think it would be good to know. Mike


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## NoStockBikes!! (Oct 29, 2002)

I hate dealing with sDealerships. Sometimes it's bad enough that a guy has to buy the new vehicles from them in the first place. In the past I've always tried to deal with the independent shops for service and repairs. At least they care. My two cents.


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## 66Construction (Jan 26, 2001)

Mike 97 SS 

My mechanic said it was a loose wire or pinched wire to a sensor I think, If I'm over there tomorrow I'll ask him the specifics of it. When he called and said it wasnt a big deal I didn't ask much, I was just glad I didn't have to drag it to the dealer and wait for them to solve the problem, or come up with an excuse not to.
Casey


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## Swampbeast (Jan 29, 2003)

Ahh. this is why I only buy Ford. And if Ford stopped making trucks, I would quickly shift to Dodge. And if Dodge didnt make trucks, I would find a different job that didnt require a truck. 
I had a friend that owned a large dump truck, built by Mack (I think, not sure, this was a couple years ago) regardless of the make, it had an Allison tranny in it, he put a grand total of 470,000 miles on it before it got T-boned by a semi truck with a load, but that Allison tranny stood up to all 470,000. So there is something to say for Allison.


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## gslam88 (Feb 19, 2002)

Swamp, 


We are not talking about the same tranny as the big boys.... the tranny that made them... 

As far as you buying a ford or dodge.... are you saying that niether or them made mistakes or have problems with their trucks or vehicles??

I am not going to start a Chevy VS Ford VS Dodge, ... it mostly a to each his own and buy what you like... 

But you still just about have to buy a new truck by dealing with a saleman!!1 nuf said 


Pete my .02 IMO....


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## SCFALL (Nov 24, 2002)

*talked to an allison factory tech*

I work at the gm truck plant in flint, 290 HD ext cabs out the door per shift. This past fall I got to talk for a while to the allison tech / engineer ( he was there looking at some broken sensors, broke in transit) He said they designed the trans for the duramax then gm engineering redid it and lightened it up alot to save $ much to allisons dismay. They are having big problems with pump shafts twisting off too small of diameter along with other problems but said they are doing a mid year update to beef it up. Scott


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## Swampbeast (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gslam88 _
> *Swamp,
> 
> We are not talking about the same tranny as the big boys.... the tranny that made them...
> ...


Heck no! That is not what I meant at all. He he! Ford has (in my opinion, OPINION ONLY) the second worst trannys, and of course, I would not have bought the Dodges a couple years back due to the 24 valve engine. They have all made mistakes of course, and each has thier strong points, and each has thier weak points. I just am of the opinion that Ford has the least weak points. That is all. 
I agree! Lets not turn this into another Ford Vs Chevy Vs Dodge.


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