# First time plowing, some questions from a newbie



## 05Ford (Nov 19, 2014)

Hey guys, how's it going? I've been on LawnSite for a couple years, but I decided to join Plowsite because I had some questions about snow removal and plowing. First post here, but here goes: 
I have done snow shoveling for 4 years now, 10 regular clients, and many one timers. My dentist asked me the other day if I do snow removal and I said yes I do. He asked me if I would plow his parking lot this winter. I initially thought "I'll just buy a big snow blower and snow blow it." But, I was wondering if I could get 10-15 driveways and this lot, would it be worth it to invest in a plow? I drive a 2005 Ford Ranger 4.0 V6, with 4x4. I know its not an ideal plow truck, but could it work to do some driveways and a small lot? 
As far as insurance, I've been checking out policies, and am meeting with an agent soon to talk. I know how I will market and how I'll do billing and such. 
Worse comes to worse, I'll just buy a snow blower and get some shovels and just do driveways that way. Would that be more productive? 
Thanks in advance, and I love this site!

A pic of my truck:


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## elitelawnteam1 (Sep 25, 2011)

A plow is your best bet, I don't know how big that dentist parking lot is, but if its decent sized, you don't want to be stuck with a snowblower. What happens when you get a big storm? Snowblowers aren't designed to plow parking lots

Check your local craigslist for plows, you can get a small poly snoway or western suburbanite plow, and prices can range from $700-$1500. 

The time you save with the plow will allow you to plow more driveways.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

If your serious about doing commercial plowing my suggestion would be either trade that truck in or buy at minimum a heavy half ton 4x4. What do you use for your lawn care truck. If that ranger is it....time to step up and do things the right way with the right equipment.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

That truck will work well for your needs, just make sure to get a metal plow. Meyer, fisher, western, whatever it just needs some weight to it. Or get a snoway unit with down pressure. That truck will work well on driveways and small lots, just be aware that you will need to upgrade next year, but that the ranger will work well as a back up truck!


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## montec (Nov 12, 2014)

Brian Young;1874962 said:


> If your serious about doing commercial plowing my suggestion would be either trade that truck in or buy at minimum a heavy half ton 4x4. What do you use for your lawn care truck. If that ranger is it....time to step up and do things the right way with the right equipment.


A lot of people give the small trucks a bad rap. I for one will take the smaller size trucks over the full size half ton.

I applaud this guy for attempting to use the smaller truck.

I've run S-Series trucks and have hauled and pulled more then most 3/4tons out there and a few 1 tons. They can and will work if you just treat them right and make sure you cover your bases on maintenance and upgrades. 2200lbs in the box of a '83 T10 long box and I could still move town speed with ease, granted 4x4 you can do a little more with. She squatted hard but I had the weight over the axle.

Now I haven't plowed with one but no one made one for the s-seires till as of late since they are now making them for the smaller vehicles that people drive these days.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

montec;1875499 said:


> A lot of people give the small trucks a bad rap. I for one will take the smaller size trucks over the full size half ton.
> 
> I applaud this guy for attempting to use the smaller truck.
> 
> ...


Yes, he can do just fine with that truck for a little while. Nice for driveways and small commercial lots. But you HAVE NOT hauled more with your "S" series than a person with a 3/4 or one ton truck. Keep it real, your claim is just B.S., and it makes people skeptical of everything you say once you tell a whopper. The new Ford super duties are rated to tow up to 30K. You telling me that you do that with your "S" series?


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

There is a big difference between getting around in the winter with weight in the back of your 2wd truck and snowplowing. Nothing wrong with a 4wd Ranger for doing a few small driveways but if you plan on doing snow removal as a business you should at least have a 3/4 ton with a minimum 8' plow as your main vehicle.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

I've run S-Series trucks and have hauled and pulled more then most 3/4tons out there and a few 1 tons.

You know the rules pics or it never happened.
And I'll say this. As you said, it squated hard,,,,,,,how safe is that? 
I'll agree with H.J....b/s


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## montec (Nov 12, 2014)

dieselss;1875678 said:


> I've run S-Series trucks and have hauled and pulled more then most 3/4tons out there and a few 1 tons.
> 
> You know the rules pics or it never happened.
> And I'll say this. As you said, it squated hard,,,,,,,how safe is that?
> I'll agree with H.J....b/s


I don't have pics of the loads in the box, never felt I needed to take any. but 2k lbs in the box is what a 1ton is rated for. I know people use the full size as intended but many have too big a truck for what they do.

I do have picks of my latest '94 s-series blazer hauling another.



















I don't have a picture of this one fully loaded up but I've hauled this one as well.










Now we can get into the bashing and butt hurt. I didn't mean to call that you don't need a full size. However everyone comfort level and experience levels vary and are different. Would I tell anyone off the street they can or should do what I have, helz no.

I was applauding the opp for doing what he's doing now. Everyone has to start somewhere with what they have.


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## montec (Nov 12, 2014)

Harleyjeff;1875586 said:


> Yes, he can do just fine with that truck for a little while. Nice for driveways and small commercial lots. But you HAVE NOT hauled more with your "S" series than a person with a 3/4 or one ton truck. Keep it real, your claim is just B.S., and it makes people skeptical of everything you say once you tell a whopper. The new Ford super duties are rated to tow up to 30K. You telling me that you do that with your "S" series?


Well I don't know, but I'd be willing to give it a shot. Pretty sure the 4.3HO in my '94 would be working hard. I'd say if its balanced right maybe. I will say I haven't pulled that much weight 6-7k yes but not that much. I've never needed to.

Let me get the LSx swap completed and a new strange rear diff in place. 

I would say that in this forum that people use the trucks as they are designed for. The rest of the suburbanites not so much.


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## jerpa (Feb 4, 2014)

A 3/4 ton of any recent vintage is rated for far more than 2000lbs. That nomenclature hasn't matched the actual ratings for years. If I overloaded my truck by the same percentage I'd be carrying 10,000 lbs in the bed. Safe, I think not.

I'm not bashing the small truck at all but advocating throwing a ton in the back of an s series and plowing is not wise IMO. If you need to haul that much and plow large lots get a bigger truck.


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## montec (Nov 12, 2014)

jerpa;1875828 said:


> A 3/4 ton of any recent vintage is rated for far more than 2000lbs. That nomenclature hasn't matched the actual ratings for years. If I overloaded my truck by the same percentage I'd be carrying 10,000 lbs in the bed. Safe, I think not.
> 
> I'm not bashing the small truck at all but advocating throwing a ton in the back of an s series and plowing is not wise IMO. If you need to haul that much and plow large lots get a bigger truck.


I apologize I was not advocating running a ton in the box while plowing.

I was moving cinderblocks, bags of cement and other items. And a few trios of soaking wet carpet, sheetrock, and other wet materials which my friend has that scale ticket somewhere I think still when he bought his house and the basement was flooded.

I was advocating that fact that you can use a smaller truck to do what some full sizes do.

A lot of people run jeeps for jobs. I've seen some in my area doing smaller parking lots and did see one using one in Target a couple times.


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## sublime68charge (Dec 28, 2007)

for your 10-15 drive and 1 small lot you'd be OK.

I'd look for a good 2 stage blower and have some ramps for getting in/out of back of your truck and that way if you run out of room to push the snow. you break out the blower and blow it out of your way.

due you have sidewalk on your drives?

the blower will knock those out on the bigger snow falls when/if you have them.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Your only pulling it not weighted down in the trk. And what's the tounge weight? And your really gunna say that that is safe.


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

My 2005 f350 srw is rated at 4100 pounds, not only one ton. And that is not nearly as much as people pull with one tons, I could put both of those loads on one trailer and tow it safely and within the limits of the truck


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## montec (Nov 12, 2014)

dieselss;1875899 said:


> Your only pulling it not weighted down in the trk. And what's the tounge weight? And your really gunna say that that is safe.


For an experienced tower yes, for some one that's never pulled before no.

The weight on the tongue I'm not sure what it was but I don't foresee it more then 600lbs. The weight was evenly distributed on the trailer on both pulls. It pulled oddly well down the highway. Yes I drove slower and allowed plenty of room to slow down and stop.

The pickup in the last pic was the one that had the weight in the box. The motor gave out when it blew the second rear main seal in 6yrs during a cold snap. I'm working on a V8 swap and trans upgrade in that one.

I've done a lot of crazy and hold my drink stuff with vehicles. However I do them sober and with the expectation that I will learn something in the end. Which I have. I have found limits for vehicles weather its driving on ice and snow, loose gravel, grass, and dry pavement.

But I'm not here to thread jack. I wish the op luck in what he is trying to do and hope he learns lots of information. Just remember its how you use the tool that matters most.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

That ranger will plow great. Hell I was out there pushing 10" of slush last year when I fell behind one storm... Most people say they won't hold up and won't push anything, but from someone who spent an entire winter plowing in a 4 liter ranger, I couldn't have asked for anything better. Sure you had to make sure you had a bit of a running start and keeping your momentum was key if you had to push up hill or while stacking, but in most cases all 4 wheels would be spinning, not running out of power. 

In the deep stuff, use 4lo and take half blade widths if possible. The truck will do very well. My truck was ready to go for this year before I sold it for a larger truck for the landscaping side of my business, if I didn't have the need to haul more I would have stayed with my ranger. Put 600 pounds in the bed and it will push. 

Good luck


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

An s10 blazer pulling an s10 blazer. Neat! But that's only like 5500 pounds including the trailer.


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## montec (Nov 12, 2014)

peteo1;1875998 said:


> An s10 blazer pulling an s10 blazer. Neat! But that's only like 5500 pounds including the trailer.


Thank you. It was fun.

The pickup was the pain, the Blazer was much easier wheeling on, still not running but much easier when you have a driveway angle to assist. I believe the weight was a bit more but not much. Both trailers I used were flipping heavy.

As the guy above said he should have little issues with the ranger and I believe that. The little trucks are more capable the many believe. I would say though any with a 4banger is just worthless.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

A four cylinder will plow as well as a six. You run out of traction long before you run out of power. I could plow with the Ford eco-tec no problem.


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## 05Ford (Nov 19, 2014)

Wow, thank you all so much! I didn't think this thread would get many responses. I have been reading through the archives and using the search function, and I've come to the conclusion that I don't think I'm ready to plow just yet. I've decided to invest in a large 2 stage snow blower instead and haul that around in my truck, along with ramps, shovels, etc.. Here's why:

A little bio about me: I'm 18 yrs old, a senior in high school and owner of my own business for three years. I figure with school it wouldn't make me appealing to any commercial prospects and me being younger than most snow operators. I've decided to market myself solely to residential properties (and maybe the dentist because his lot is less than 7,000 sg ft). I can use the blower on my current properties and still be efficient in my target market. I'm thinking I might reach out to some experienced contractors and see if I can sub for them, doing sidewalks. I also feel my truck could get pretty damaged from plow work and I don't necessarily want that. My 5 year plan states that after I get out of college with a degree in horticulture, I'm going to work for a couple large companies for a few years, and go out on my own, trading the ranger in for an F-350 to work out of, or also keeping the ranger as a personal truck. I think I've got it figured out.

Anyways, I'm meeting with owner of a used Ariens two stage soon. He bought it new last year for $3500, selling it for $500. I'm putting an ad in two papers, and having my current customers talk about me ( word of mouth). If you all have any opinions on two stage snowblowers, I'd love to hear em'! Again, thank you all, I appreciate experienced business owners like you taking the time to help me.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

He bought a 3,500 dollar snowblower and is selling it one year later for 1/7 what he paid for it?


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## xjoedirt55x (Dec 11, 2009)

montec;1875499 said:


> A lot of people give the small trucks a bad rap. I for one will take the smaller size trucks over the full size half ton.
> 
> I applaud this guy for attempting to use the smaller truck.
> 
> ...


SMH.....

And yea.... you can hook up to an evenly weighted heavy trailer with a ****box S series and pull it, but truth is.... it is not made to do that. A truck made to do that will outlast the one not built for it by a long shot.... why you are pinging the rpm's, a big motor will idle right past you.

OP, put a plow on the bad boy and pick up a few small lots and driveways. Pay yourself back for the plow and start saving for bigger and better. Plow with the danger ranger for a year, two years, or even three, just know you need to keep a better eye on maintenance and don't work outside the trucks capabilities.... Get something bigger, and you will always have this one for small tricky driveways or a backup.


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## montec (Nov 12, 2014)

xjoedirt55x;1876256 said:


> SMH.....
> 
> And yea.... you can hook up to an evenly weighted heavy trailer with a ****box S series and pull it, but truth is.... it is not made to do that. A truck made to do that will outlast the one not built for it by a long shot.... why you are pinging the rpm's, a big motor will idle right past you.


I run into a lot of people like you, gotta have this or that. I've proved them wrong in person.

I've run s-series for what I need, never needed a full size. And for pinging the RPM's never have I needed to hit the redline on any motor I've driven, wither its the gutless 2.8, the 3.8buick, 4.3 or a 305 or 350.

I'll bet your the type of person that would shame someone with a full size using a bumper hitch for pulling a car trailer too.

I was being supportive of this guy trying to do something with what he had. Would I tell him to do what I have, no, but he would probably get there with time and experience.

Would I run an 8ft+ plow on a s-series. I might just to prove people that you may, I don't know I'm not plowing with mine yet.

I turn my own wrenches on my vehicles and I do my upgrades where needed. The white '94 is my daily and I'm looking do to a LSx swap when the motor decides to give up the ghost which probably wont before another 150k more miles The pickup getting loaded on the trailer I've got a 350 that I'm working on to swap into that.

We can sit around here and pass the butthurt and flame away, but that's not what we are here to do. We are here to provide helpful insight to people that are asking questions.

The Op made a decision and it was a good one and I congratulate him on his choice and wish him the best of luck in his endeavors.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Your missing the point m. Your saying that SAFELY your s series can be SAFELY loaded down with more weight then a 3/4 or 1 ton.
And so far you have not proven that. We get that your supporting the op, but your claims are now in question. And again as far as towing, your not loaded down, your just over coming rolling resistance, with weight distribution being on 3 points.


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## andersman02 (May 5, 2012)

My take,

Use that ranger for the resi's for a year or too, get a small blade, maybe one with down pressure and take your time, make sure you PLOW WITH THE STORM on anything decent.

We own 1 tons for plowing and while yes they are a much beefier truck. I would honestly rather have a small vehicle, like a jeep, for many of the resi's. That is untill we get some 8"+ storms then please give me the 1ton back. 

Your definately on the right track, at your age no need to drop 5-10k on a plow truck and hit the commercial business's. Your ranger will do fine assuming you dont use it like a 1ton.

If a plow is out of your zone right now, a 2stage + 1 stage would be a good bet, 1 stage for small storms, 2 stage for anything decent or big drives. I would highly suggest rethinking using one on a commercial lot, even at 7k..Even if you can blow snow to all of the sides, that is going to be a tough one.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

montec;1876584 said:


> I run into a lot of people like you, gotta have this or that. I've proved them wrong in person.
> 
> I've run s-series for what I need, never needed a full size. And for pinging the RPM's never have I needed to hit the redline on any motor I've driven, wither its the gutless 2.8, the 3.8buick, 4.3 or a 305 or 350.
> 
> ...


How ever you need to justify it buddy.....
I just hope you don't end up killing someone else with your antics.

hey, I towed 30k with my s10, I did it, you can too.
mentality it.

a 8ft blade on a s10, sure it can do it.

It does all you ask of it, until it doesn't.

to h$ll with weight ratting.

Why do they even make 3/4 ton trucks?
just get a s10......who knew....

I bet he does it all with "P" tires too.....


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## montec (Nov 12, 2014)

dieselss;1876598 said:


> Your missing the point m. Your saying that SAFELY your s series can be SAFELY loaded down with more weight then a 3/4 or 1 ton.
> And so far you have not proven that. We get that your supporting the op, but your claims are now in question. And again as far as towing, your not loaded down, your just over coming rolling resistance, with weight distribution being on 3 points.


Well then I wish I had pictures of me hauling in my pickup, but I don't, I didn't have a camera phone back then and never felt needed pictures.

Was I safe, yes. Did I drive slower, Yes. Could I have gone like a bat out of hell, yes, but I didn't. Was I straining my drivetrain, maybe but it survived. And lasted many more years. Was I hitting the redline no.

Would many of the surburbanites even attempt 2k lbs in the box of their shiny pickup, helz no. I've always made sure I had a min of 1/2 before the suspension bumpers. Sure I'd haul a yard of gravel, black dirt, compost or whatever I needed to for what I or my family needed. Am I nuts, maybe. But I'm willing to give it a try. Fill it up, a pickup is meant to haul stuff that's not just groceries or people.

You can believe me or not. That's up to you. I'm not here to blow smoke up anyone's arse. Those that know me personally, know I will try a lot of crazy ****e with a vehicle.


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## montec (Nov 12, 2014)

SnoFarmer;1876613 said:


> How ever you need to justify it buddy.....
> I just hope you don't end up killing someone else with your antics.
> 
> hey, I towed 30k with my s10, I did it, you can too.
> ...


P rated tires, are you f'ing nuts. Never should any 4x4 pickup, suv ever have p rated tires. Even 2wd. I run LT's minimum 6ply.

Never ever would I put someone else's life in danger. My own sure.

I've sure been put into dangerous situations from other moronic drivers.

Sure I'll try it, some has to at some point. Guess what we'll learn something from them that tried it and either it failed or it worked. Never did I say you should try it too. I said sure I'll try it, not you should do it too.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Every time you over load a s10 you are putting others at risk.

The old i can do i,t but you shouldn't , justification is funny.
what you do on your own property is our business
but as soon as you take it out on the public streets you are a danger to all around..

will it push a 8ft blade, sure it will until the transmission fails, yes you could push 1" snow falls until the cows come home.
why not a 9ft V?
and a 2yd salter in the box?
after all it's a 1ton in a s10 body....:waving:

A rule of thumb that will serve you well is.
Get more truck than you need,

not, get the smallest one you can and work the crap out of it.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Sometimes it's just better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're stupid, than to open your mouth and prove it. Quit trying to defend your posts, it's just making you look more and more ridiculous. You sound like you've got Napoleon Syndrome. One of those guys that has a smaller vehicle that feels that he has to prove a point to guys that own larger trucks. "I can do anything you can do". You can't, and you sound like an idiot trying to prove that you can. Nobody here was knocking the guy wanting to use the Ranger to plow. Hell, some even said it's an ideal driveway rig. But when you have to chime in with those dumb-assed comments that you did, you just sound ignorant.


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## montec (Nov 12, 2014)

SnoFarmer;1876641 said:


> Every time you over load a s10 you are putting others at risk.
> 
> The old i can do i,t but you shouldn't , justification is funny.
> what you do on your own property is our business
> ...


Have fun everyone.


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