# Overloaded ?



## TritonSnownIce (Oct 18, 2006)

Will I be overloading my F350 with a Western Ice breaker 8' and 2.5 yards of course salt ??


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I'm not sure, but most 1500 owners will tell you they can carry that weight with no problems... lol


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

you bet ya!!!:waving: :waving:


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## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

The sander is probably about 1100lbs, then you are going to put about another 7500 lbs into it for a grand total of 8600 lbs. Now you need to open the door and see what the GVWR is(11500lbs +/-) and subtract the Tare(weight of the truck empty, most likely 7000lbs +/-) which would leave you 4500 lbs +/- of legal carrying capacity. That would put you at about 4100 lbs overweight.

You didn't mention anything about a plow, if you are carrying one you need to include theweight of that as well.


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## TritonSnownIce (Oct 18, 2006)

Big Dog D said:


> The sander is probably about 1100lbs, then you are going to put about another 7500 lbs into it for a grand total of 8600 lbs. Now you need to open the door and see what the GVWR is(11500lbs +/-) and subtract the Tare(weight of the truck empty, most likely 7000lbs +/-) which would leave you 4500 lbs +/- of legal carrying capacity. That would put you at about 4100 lbs overweight.
> 
> You didn't mention anything about a plow, if you are carrying one you need to include theweight of that as well.


My Western ice Breaker is only 700# and coarse salt is about 1400# per yard thats only 
4200#.


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## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

Big Dog D said:


> The sander is probably about 1100lbs, then you are going to put about another 7500 lbs into it for a grand total of 8600 lbs. Now you need to open the door and see what the GVWR is(11500lbs +/-) and subtract the Tare(weight of the truck empty, most likely 7000lbs +/-) which would leave you 4500 lbs +/- of legal carrying capacity. That would put you at about 4100 lbs overweight.
> 
> You didn't mention anything about a plow, if you are carrying one you need to include theweight of that as well.


numbers seem a little off. salter can't be that much.


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## TritonSnownIce (Oct 18, 2006)

I went to the Western site and located my spreader on the spec sheet. 700# and if you go to the ice mngt. forum you will see that Mick posted the weight of coarse salt at roughly 1400# per yard. ( Weight of Salt Thread )


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

TritonSnownIce said:


> I went to the Western site and located my spreader on the spec sheet. 700# and if you go to the ice mngt. forum you will see that Mick posted the weight of coarse salt at roughly 1400# per yard. ( Weight of Salt Thread )


Are you using bul or bagged? IF bulk, is it covered always?

Salt _can_ be as little as 1400# per ton, but it can also be around 2500# per ton, depending on moisture content. I usually figure 1 yard of salt is 1 ton, for an average.

I thought BigDog's post was most eloquent. I agree, even with the lower spreader weight, you're going to be overloaded.


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## TritonSnownIce (Oct 18, 2006)

Covered bulk salt is what I am running.


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

Well by my math a spreader at 700# 2.5 yrds dry at 1400 each yard adds 3500# along with a plow around #700 for a grand total of 4900# . I don't think that truck can carry that much weight, not to mention will it stop like it should? Also don't let a weigh master stop you and put you on the scale's, that will be a nice fine. The bigger question is why not make two trips for salt and not overload your truck? It is better to be safe than sorry, what happens if you can't stop in time and rear end someone who is very seriously injured or even die's. Don't think a lawyer won't have a field day with that. So the bigger thing to think about is it worth the risk? Only you can answer that question.

Good Luck Mike


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## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

See where I said *probably*? I wasn't certifying this thing, Iwas trying to show you how to figure it out and was using approximates. Based on the original post it seemed as the poster didn't have a clue as to how to figure it out and was showing the process of how to do it. The 2.5 yd Torwell sanders we run weigh approximately 1100lbs and that is what I was basing it on. I didn't catch the coarse salt part and wasn't sure that he was using it straight, I just used the "standard" 1.5 tons per yard for bulk materials to figure it out on.

Teach me for trying to help someone!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Big Dog D said:


> See where I said *probably*? I wasn't certifying this thing, Iwas trying to show you how to figure it out and was using approximates. Based on the original post it seemed as the poster didn't have a clue as to how to figure it out and was showing the process of how to do it. The 2.5 yd Torwell sanders we run weigh approximately 1100lbs and that is what I was basing it on. I didn't catch the coarse salt part and wasn't sure that he was using it straight, I just used the "standard" 1.5 tons per yard for bulk materials to figure it out on.
> 
> Teach me for trying to help someone!


Yeah, dipstick. Just stop would ya?

With covered bulk, you are at the mercy of your supplier whether they have it covered on the dock or not. See my above figures, I'd still stick with about a ton per yard just to be safe.

One other thing. We had an older 1 ton Dodge with a tailgate spreader that was our first real salt spreader. We regularly overloaded it, which I hate to admit because it was stupid, and we paid for it in the long run with a lot of extra repairs. Fortunately never had an accident with it. Ever since then, I have made it a point to get the right equipment for the job. I'm not saying we never overload anymore, but no more than a 1000 #'s.

PS One of our salters comes in at over a ton. I would have guessed approximately the same.


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## TritonSnownIce (Oct 18, 2006)

The sticker on my truck says . GVW 11,400 # my truck empty weighs 7500#


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## TritonSnownIce (Oct 18, 2006)

flykelley said:


> Well by my math a spreader at 700# 2.5 yrds dry at 1400 each yard adds 3500# along with a plow around #700 for a grand total of 4900# . I don't think that truck can carry that much weight, not to mention will it stop like it should? Also don't let a weigh master stop you and put you on the scale's, that will be a nice fine. The bigger question is why not make two trips for salt and not overload your truck? It is better to be safe than sorry, what happens if you can't stop in time and rear end someone who is very seriously injured or even die's. Don't think a lawyer won't have a field day with that. So the bigger thing to think about is it worth the risk? Only you can answer that question.
> 
> Good Luck Mike


My truck empty weighs 7500 #. If I add 3500# for unit and salt, that comes out to 11,000 #

My GVW sticker on the door says 11,400


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

TritonSnownIce said:


> My truck empty weighs 7500 #. If I add 3500# for unit and salt, that comes out to 11,000 #
> 
> My GVW sticker on the door says 11,400


Then you are ok as long as the salt weighs in at 1400# a ton, if its wet or the guy loading gets a large bucket then you will be overloaded. Is it the end of the world, no but you do need to manage your risk.

Regards Mike


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## nevrnf (Oct 12, 2005)

When i was stopped last year in a F550 with a 5yard V box loaded i was over GVWR on the truck but under by the plate. I was given a pass by the cop with a warning. He told me i did the right thing by plating high. He could only write me a ticket for "unsafe vehicle" which was an "equipment violation" and only $75. I realize that at #23000 i was really pushing the truck BUT it handled it just fine.


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## glenspot (Aug 11, 2004)

TritonSnownIce said:


> My truck empty weighs 7500 #. If I add 3500# for unit and salt, that comes out to 11,000 #
> 
> My GVW sticker on the door says 11,400


Does your truck have a plow on it too? Don't forget to add your own weight and anything else that you might be carrying with you. leaving 400 pounds of "wiggle room" doesn't seem like much.


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## framer1901 (Dec 18, 2005)

Hate to say it, I leave the house with 4g's plus tailgate spreader in back, 82 vee in the front - drives like a low ridin caddy........... 

I drop 1500# right away and gradually lose the rest thru the night.

Overloaded? Oh yea. Does it stop?? Oh yea.... And it'll move moutains......

Do I own em for more than two years? Oh no.............

It certainly isn't the right thing to do by any means and I am looking for warehouse space in town for storage to have lighter loads, but I have to do what I have to do.....

F350, supercab diesel - If you see a 2005 Black Lariet on the used car lot this summer, walk away.................


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## dieseld (Dec 30, 2005)

You could consider airlift airbags in the rear. I overload all year long with them. Also take a look at the municipal trucks in a snowstorm, they are totally slammed driving through town. a lot of time you can get away with it in a snowstorm. And trading every couple years is a kind of a must in this line of work, in my opinion. So if you see black XLTs, walk away also.


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## LD4850 (Jun 5, 2005)

Big Dog D said:


> The sander is probably about 1100lbs, then you are going to put about another 7500 lbs into it for a grand total of 8600 lbs.* Now you need to open the door and see what the GVWR is(11500lbs +/-) and subtract the Tare(weight of the truck empty, most likely 7000lbs +/-) which would leave you 4500 lbs +/- of legal carrying capacity. That would put you at about 4100 lbs overweight.*
> You didn't mention anything about a plow, if you are carrying one you need to include theweight of that as well.


Please don't confuse Fords recommended GVWR with the LAW in your state. Last I knew Ford didn't make the weight laws in ANY state. That rating is for a standard of performance & is sometimes used to limit Warranty claims. It isn't SAFETY related nor does it have any Legal status.


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

The law goes by the Manufacturer GVW


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## Bigblue250 (Oct 23, 2003)

True, but not true. My friend had a set of Timbrens added up at J.C. Madigan, and now has an upfitters sticker that says his GVW is increased from 9900 to 11,000.


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## bltp203 (Nov 5, 2006)

LD4850 is correct (at least for Michigan), the GVWR is a performance recommendation and you cannot be cited for going over it. Michigan is unique in that it is a "per axle" weight state, believe it or not a 2 axle truck gets 18,000 lbs per axle......You will snap something on an F350 before getting the weight that high. However, you can get a ticket for exceeding the tire manufactures weight rating, but the fine is nothing near an overweight ticket. When it comes to weight, every state is different.


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## firelwn82 (Feb 14, 2006)

Your fine. Go to western's site look at the weight. Call to the Salt yard ask them what the weith of the salt is and you'll be OK.


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## LD4850 (Jun 5, 2005)

procut1 said:


> The law goes by the Manufacturer GVW


Try to find that writen someplace in your state weight laws. I think you will find that your state goes by "Registered" weight as do most of them.

People try to equate Legal with Safe all the time & it just doesn't happen.

A F150 loaded to 15,000 pounds can be 100% safe if driven properly and can be permitted to be legal at that weight.

A F350 EMPTY can kill people if driven wrong. And if licensed wrong can be overweight EMPTY.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

My understanding, which could be wrong because only a lawyer and the dumbass that drew up these impossible to understand regulations can understand, is that you can sticker a truck for whatever and you better not be over it AND that you better not be over the mfg's GVW on the truck. The sticker allows you to weight that much between truck and trailer. 

I dare you to load up a 350--truck only--to just 18,000#'s, not per axle and drive through a weigh station. If you are positive you are correct, try it and let us know how it comes out. 

Heaven forbid you kill somebody with that truck, because you will be hung out to dry because you exceeded the mfg's GVW, not what the plate was stickered at.


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

LD4850 said:


> Try to find that writen someplace in your state weight laws. I think you will find that your state goes by "Registered" weight as do most of them.
> 
> .
> 
> ...


There is no WAY that a truck which is rated at 10,000 GVW can be to loaded and weigh in at 15,000 GVW can be 100% safe. I have been behind the wheel of trucks which had a trailer and a small loader on it and darn near could not stop. That was the last time I did something like that. If you want to haul 2-3 ton's in the bed of truck, get a dump truck. We all need to stop trying to make our pickup's into medium duty trucks. THEY ARE NOT BUILT TO HAUL THAT MUCH WEIGHT. As Mark O said don't go out there and kill someone the lawyer will have a field day and you might just be spending alot of time with Bubba in the Big House.

Regards Mike


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## Proscapez LLC (Aug 9, 2006)

I had 1993 F350 dually with a stake bed, bought it new. added overload springs to it.
I use to carry 9,000lbs of steel out Great lakes steel to Davisburg Mi, 3 times a week.
That trip included rolling over the scale on I-75, the trip took about 2 hours.
I never had a legal problem.
But, The engine and transmission were gone at 50,000 miles.
I couldn't afford the right truck set up, to carry the weight.
I never damaged the frame, axles, wheels, or tires.
Driving it was very scary!

I should have been charged with an over weight ticket, but it was legal in michigan.


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

maybe michigan is different.

Here if youre over the gvw on the truck they dont let you move it.

You can register the truck for less than the gvw. In that case if you are over the weight on the reg but under the gvw of the truck you will get a ticket but can still drive the truck.


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

Lawns & More said:


> I had 1993 F350 dually with a stake bed, bought it new. added overload springs to it.
> I use to carry 9,000lbs of steel out Great lakes steel to Davisburg Mi, 3 times a week.
> That trip included rolling over the scale on I-75, the trip took about 2 hours.
> I never had a legal problem.
> ...


Lawns and More

Your last sentence says it all. When we overload our trucks and then drive them on snow covered and slippery roads we are putting ourselves at risk. Why take a chance and not be able to stop. Buy the right size truck and it will serve you better than a smaller truck and last longer. Tom at Pine Island Service's in Grand Rapids Michigan has a website and I will quote him.

*Snow Removal and Deicing is really RISK MANAGEMENT.

Well said Tom, I use it all of the time, what we really are talking about here is risk management. Are you really willing to risk hurting or killing someone to save a extra trip to the salt yard? Is 1/2 hr worth a life and maybe even 5 or more years in prison because you wanted to save some time. In the big house you will have aot of time to think about that last trip.

Regards Mike *


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

procut1 said:


> maybe michigan is different.
> 
> Here if youre over the gvw on the truck they dont let you move it.
> 
> You can register the truck for less than the gvw. In that case if you are over the weight on the reg but under the gvw of the truck you will get a ticket but can still drive the truck.


I'm pretty sure that is the same way here in MI. Although you can't under register a 1 ton, 24k is the lowest you can go. I'm sure some will argue this point, but this is what I have heard from Motor Carrier Enforcement officers and this is how I am operating my company.

All you those that choose to argue about it, please stay away from me and my family.


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## LD4850 (Jun 5, 2005)

Mark Oomkes said:


> My understanding, which could be wrong because only a lawyer and the dumbass that drew up these impossible to understand regulations can understand, is that you can sticker a truck for whatever and you better not be over it AND that you better not be over the mfg's GVW on the truck. The sticker allows you to weight that much between truck and trailer.
> 
> *I dare you to load up a 350--truck only--to just 18,000#'s, not per axle and drive through a weigh station. If you are positive you are correct, try it and let us know how it comes out.*
> 
> Heaven forbid you kill somebody with that truck, because you will be hung out to dry because you exceeded the mfg's GVW, not what the plate was stickered at.


Mark... Lawns & More has already done it many times & DID NOT get a ticket because it was LEGAL.

Please try to find me JUST ONE case where someone was sued for being over the manufacturers suggested Gross Vehicle Weight Rateing. You can't... It hasn't happened.
Hotshot drivers are loaded over the GVWR on the door stickers of their trucks EVERYDAY and cross the scales in all 50 states without getting a ticket. And they don't get sued either. At least not for being over the GVWR on the door sticker.


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

LD4850 said:


> Mark... Lawns & More has already done it many times & DID NOT get a ticket because it was LEGAL.
> 
> Please try to find me JUST ONE case where someone was sued for being over the manufacturers suggested Gross Vehicle Weight Rateing. You can't... It hasn't happened.
> Hotshot drivers are loaded over the GVWR on the door stickers of their trucks EVERYDAY and cross the scales in all 50 states without getting a ticket. And they don't get sued either. At least not for being over the GVWR on the door sticker.


The suing part comes into play when there is a accident and someone is either hurt or killed. If you think for one second that you will not get sued and lose if you have a accident and are over weight and over the GVW you are in for a big surprise. The lawyers will sue the living he** out of you and win. Its called Gross Negligence and they win these type of case's all the time. It is all about risk management, you don't put yourself in this position just because the truck can hold it. This make's no sense to not only put yourself at risk but somebody else.

Good Luck Mike


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## Proscapez LLC (Aug 9, 2006)

Actully unless the laws have changed since 1994 under federal law, states have to 
allow 12K lbs for steering axle, 20K lbs for other single axles and 34K lbs for tandem axles.
But state's can allow higher axle weights. If you really want to know what the weight and size limits for each state, Stop by a truck stop and find a Rand Mcnally "motor carriers road atlas" that is the best most up to date info you'll find. the first 40-50 pages will be laws.

I got stopped at a scale house in Utah years back. I went inside and the weigh master ask me if I knew my axle weights, I explained to him I left new mexico and hadn't seen a scale to check it.
He informed me my steering was over axle at 14k lbs. "I knew I was in for it" 
Then he responded, that is legal here. But when you cross into idaho, they'll get you. There limit is 12k lbs.
Then he told me to adjust it, and roll back over the scales. it took me a couple trips over the scales, but I got it right before I left there.
I remeber i was just under 80K lbs.

Those tickets are high and you never want to get one, if your not covered by your company.
In the years I drove truck, I only got one ticket and it was in Southern Cali. I was pulling a brand new 53' x 102" shoughton trailer and the reflective red and white tape didn't have a gap between the two colors and they wrote me a $5K ticket. and made me remove like 4inches of the tape between both colors.
The worst part is it wasn't illegal under federal law but they just like to do things there own way out there.
I ended up having to go back to Cali for court twice before the case was heard.
and the company ended up paying the $5k ticket. 

But I do know that in Michigan there are seasonal roads, where the weight limits change.
But all the Freeways and US highways and state highways have the same limits.

And legally you can run your pick-up truck with 12k lbs on the steering axle and your drive axle at 20k lbs and if your pulling a trailer 20k lbs on that single axle and if you have tandems on that trailer 34k lbs. in Michigan. and most staes are like that unless they have a law that states GVWR or GVCWR. 
Of course if something did happen and you had an accident, and for some reason they weighed you and you were over weight that would give the other lawyer fuel to burn you in a civil case. 
The reason I don't drive anymore! Is one of my friends had an accident, which he ran over a car on I-75 and US-23 just south of bristol rd. in flint. Thanks to President Clinton coming in to bishop airport, they shut the interstate down north & south bond and traffic was backup behind a bend in the road. I dont know why he didnt run his truck off the road but he didn't, he hit a car killing someone. last I knew he was still in prison.
There ain't to many jobs worth going to prison over, for me.

Sorry for the Book! but I thought, I would tell you like it is or was.


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## Proscapez LLC (Aug 9, 2006)

LD4850 said:


> Hotshot drivers are loaded over the GVWR on the door stickers of their trucks EVERYDAY and cross the scales in all 50 states without getting a ticket.


Hotshot drivers, usally carry balloon loads meaning there not very heavy.
But then again it goes back to federal weight limits 12k lbs on the steers 20k lbs on the drives.
I know they do go way over there door stickers for both the GVWR and the GVCWR.
But they don't get close to overaxle, because they cant pull that much weight.


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## LD4850 (Jun 5, 2005)

_"'The suing part comes into play when there is a accident and someone is either hurt or killed."_
The suing *MAY* happen *IF* you have an accident.

_" If you think for one second that you will not get sued and lose if you have a accident and are over weight and over the GVW you are in for a big surprise."_

I will be VERY surprised if I get sued for being over the GVW set by Ford, GM or Chrysler.
Being overweight??? I have never seen proof that this has EVER happened. But I see MANY pick up trucks that are OVERWEIGHT in IN. The plated weight that many of then have is like 6000 #'s & the truck empty weighs more then that. None of them get sued.

_" The lawyers will sue the living he** out of you and win. Its called Gross Negligence and they win these type of case's all the time."_

If this happens " all the time" site me JUST ONE case.

"It is all about risk management, you don't put yourself in this position just because the truck can hold it. This make's no sense to not only put yourself at risk but somebody else"

Risk management means that you drive at a lower speed, when traffic is less, on roads that don't have traffic, & with proper permits if you need them. 
People that want to load a pick up to 20,000 pounds & drive 85 miles an hour on snow covered roads in the mountains just because they can probably won't make it to their destination.

All I'm saying is the GVW set by the manufacturer means nothing as far as the law is concerned. It also means nothing as far as safety is concerned. 
*PEOPLE DIE * every day from accidents where the GVW was NOT exceeded.
Trucks are on the road every second loaded over the GVW set by the manufacturer and don't get tickets & don't get into accidents.

You CAN'T find one single case where someone was sued for being over the MSGVWR.


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## flykelley (Dec 29, 2003)

LD4850 said:


> _"'The suing part comes into play when there is a accident and someone is either hurt or killed."_
> The suing *MAY* happen *IF* you have an accident.
> 
> _" If you think for one second that you will not get sued and lose if you have a accident and are over weight and over the GVW you are in for a big surprise."_
> ...


 The point is not being sued for just being over GVW it will be proved in court that because you had such a heavy load on your truck it help caused the accident. A heavly loaded truck can not STOP as quick as a empty truck or one that has a small load on it. THE POINT YOU CAN'T SEEM TO GET IS IF YOU DRIVE AND ARE OVER THE GVW DO NOT THINK A LAWYER WILL NOT BRING THAT UP AT YOUR TRIAL. *Read the above post about the truck driver who had a wreck on I 75 and US 23 and a girl got killed, he wasn't even overweight and got prison time for negligent Homicide. The whole point Im trying to make and it doesn't seem to be making it is . Why put yourself at risk, if you have that much work were you can't make 2 trips to the salt yard then maybe you have too much work.

Regards Mike*


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

If you are letting an unsafe vehicle on the road by going over the GVW. Even if you are over weight on only one axle it is unsafe.

As you are going to the books to look this up look at the section on tire size too.
and weight limits stamped on them/and size

Most of these laws are for motor carriers."semi's" cargo-trucks etc etc.

Most of our trucks are lumped in with passenger vehicles category.

You can get a unsafe vehicle ticket..


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