# ASV Demo



## jkiser96

I have an ASV RC 80 demoed this weekend for a clearing job & the salesman told me to keep it & try it on the snow supposedly coming in. I am just lloking for opinions on this machine. We used this thing to push brush & dirt & man this thing is a tank, I hope it is equally impressive in the snow.


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## CityGuy

We run cat 277'a be careful on ice tracks can be alittle slippery on ice.


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## DGODGR

Make sure you try it in the snow before you buy it (if you plan on using it for snow removal). In my experience the track machines do not get good traction on frozen ground or ice (which is what you drive on once the snow is removed). I do now some contractors in my area that use them for snow removal (both 80s, 100s and Bobcats) but they both admit that the track machines are not as good do to less traction. I notice in your avatar that you display a 430 or 435 ZHS. Do you actually have one? If so try it out in the snow and see how well it works. The track loaders will perform similarly.


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## flairlandscape

DGODGR;730801 said:


> Make sure you try it in the snow before you buy it (if you plan on using it for snow removal). In my experience the track machines do not get good traction on frozen ground or ice (which is what you drive on once the snow is removed). I do now some contractors in my area that use them for snow removal (both 80s, 100s and Bobcats) but they both admit that the track machines are not as good do to less traction. I notice in your avatar that you display a 430 or 435 ZHS. Do you actually have one? If so try it out in the snow and see how well it works. The track loaders will perform similarly.


The ASV's have far superior traction over bobcat, case, etc. This video proves it:


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## Peterbilt

Trouble in the snow? Ok.

J.






Looks to me like it will push pretty good.


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## DGODGR

As I said, I know other contractors that use them for snow removal. The ASV has a suspension system on it's under carriage. This has advantages and disadvantages. They also come with a different tread pattern on the tracks. Both of which (I think) lends itself to better traction over the Bobcat and some other machines. I think that the video of the machine pushing the snow (looks like an older ASV but it's hard to see) will better demonstrate the machines abilities in the intended use. What you can't tell from the video is wether or not the conditions were ideal (ie temp, humidity, grade etc.). You have a machine and will get the best input from your own use of it in the intended applications. 

As you have stated in the first post you will be using the machine for dirt work as well. If so I would like to talk about my experience with this under carriage. ASV and Caterpillar entered into an agreement that allowed Cat to use the ASV undercarriage on thier compact track loaders. I demoed a Cat 257 a couple of years (+/-) back. I had the machine for about 40 hrs of use. I really liked the machine (especially compared to the rubber tire machines I had used before). I really liked how smooth the machine road. I felt that it got good traction and could push, fill the bucket, and climb much better than a conventional skid steer. The bad side to the under carriage came in the form of damage to it. I own many tractors and have been operating equipment for over 20 years. I have a machine with over 12,000 hours that is still in great shape. I mention this to demonstrate that I do not abuse equipment. After using the 257 the undercarriage had been damaged. One of the front bogie wheels (made of plastic) had a hole in it. Also after it was returned to the dealer another customer (who subsequently demoed the machine) claimed that the cogs on the tracks were broken off and the dealer tried to get me to buy new tracks or the whole machine. I talked with a former Cat salesman about this and he told me to read the manual before I made a purchase. The manual said that they would not warranty the machine if you used it in the way that you would want to use a tracked a machine (such as slopes etc). In the end the dealer decided that they did not want me to pay for the repairs. I was greatful for that but was dissapointed because I really liked the machine. I also know others who have had these problems plus the the rubber on the lower idlers will chunk off if you work in gravel. These same people are still satisfied (overall) with there machines and have stated that they would probably purchase one again. If you operate on sandy ground, lawns etc. than I would recommend it. If (like me) you are in rocky ground and slopes I would not. Please consider this also. Cat has come out with a new (improved?) undercarriage that I am not familiar with. Maybe ASV has also (if you are demoing a brand new '09 unit) changed theirs as well. Maybe somone else can comment on that. Good luck.


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## Peterbilt

The video is a brand new one. PT80, not SR80. Its mine. The older SR series were all yellow and red, Pt Series are Black with yellow, and the new 09 Terex versions are white with black and look suber tough IMO.

I use mine for everything and in every condition. I also have a RC50, Its an 05 with 800 or so hours. Its had now undercariage issues at all and its used in every type of working condition.

You are correct, not all track machines are created equal. I know that Take's are built way tougher and will take on way more severe punishment. Another thing to preach here is ASVs and Takeuchis are the only ground up designed CTL/MTL on the market. EVERY other brand has a modified skid loader. EVERY OTHER BRAND.

For me, I have been in all machines, Case, Cat, Take, Bobcat, Deere, etc. ASVs are the only every season track loader you can buy. (with the acception on cat witch uses ASV under carriages) I can't own a machine unless I can get every bit of life out of it. I hate looking at my excavator in the winter. It just sits. Thank god its paid for.

J.


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## KRtraxx

DGODGR;731148 said:


> As I said, I know other contractors that use them for snow removal. The ASV has a suspension system on it's under carriage. This has advantages and disadvantages. They also come with a different tread pattern on the tracks. Both of which (I think) lends itself to better traction over the Bobcat and some other machines. I think that the video of the machine pushing the snow (looks like an older ASV but it's hard to see) will better demonstrate the machines abilities in the intended use. What you can't tell from the video is wether or not the conditions were ideal (ie temp, humidity, grade etc.). You have a machine and will get the best input from your own use of it in the intended applications.
> 
> As you have stated in the first post you will be using the machine for dirt work as well. If so I would like to talk about my experience with this under carriage. ASV and Caterpillar entered into an agreement that allowed Cat to use the ASV undercarriage on thier compact track loaders. I demoed a Cat 257 a couple of years (+/-) back. I had the machine for about 40 hrs of use. I really liked the machine (especially compared to the rubber tire machines I had used before). I really liked how smooth the machine road. I felt that it got good traction and could push, fill the bucket, and climb much better than a conventional skid steer. The bad side to the under carriage came in the form of damage to it. I own many tractors and have been operating equipment for over 20 years. I have a machine with over 12,000 hours that is still in great shape. I mention this to demonstrate that I do not abuse equipment. After using the 257 the undercarriage had been damaged. One of the front bogie wheels (made of plastic) had a hole in it. Also after it was returned to the dealer another customer (who subsequently demoed the machine) claimed that the cogs on the tracks were broken off and the dealer tried to get me to buy new tracks or the whole machine. I talked with a former Cat salesman about this and he told me to read the manual before I made a purchase. The manual said that they would not warranty the machine if you used it in the way that you would want to use a tracked a machine (such as slopes etc). In the end the dealer decided that they did not want me to pay for the repairs. I was greatful for that but was dissapointed because I really liked the machine. I also know others who have had these problems plus the the rubber on the lower idlers will chunk off if you work in gravel. These same people are still satisfied (overall) with there machines and have stated that they would probably purchase one again. If you operate on sandy ground, lawns etc. than I would recommend it. If (like me) you are in rocky ground and slopes I would not. Please consider this also. Cat has come out with a new (improved?) undercarriage that I am not familiar with. Maybe ASV has also (if you are demoing a brand new '09 unit) changed theirs as well. Maybe somone else can comment on that. Good luck.


 If I remember correctly the Cat /ASV owners manual also says that their UC is not 
designed to be used for back grading(in reverse).. at least they used to anyway..A skid you are not supposed to work in reverse??? 
Those 257s are a bit heavy for that UC..Thats one reason they have issues quicker than the 247 or the 50/60 ASVs..All of these machines ride and perform well,,But their UCs are expensive to maintain..
I used to sell for Cat and now sell ASVs,NHs and Mustangs..(VTSs)You will laugh,but when I go to plow snow in my own yard I head for a 185 NH with Solideal over the tire rubber tracks.Even though I have a yard full of choices I love how these tracks perform in snow.Ice would be a different story,But ice is an issue for ALL tracked units.. My reasoning is speed,low cost of operation and the ability to pile it high by driving right up the pile..


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## jkiser96

DGODGR;730801 said:


> Make sure you try it in the snow before you buy it (if you plan on using it for snow removal). In my experience the track machines do not get good traction on frozen ground or ice (which is what you drive on once the snow is removed). I do now some contractors in my area that use them for snow removal (both 80s, 100s and Bobcats) but they both admit that the track machines are not as good do to less traction. I notice in your avatar that you display a 430 or 435 ZHS. Do you actually have one? If so try it out in the snow and see how well it works. The track loaders will perform similarly.


That is my 430 ZHS that my son is running in the avatar. I used it last winter to clean the street in front of my house & man it sucks, absolutely zero control if any ice is under. I have an S-175 that I just bought this summer & it is working great all around. They are calling for a few inches tonight so hopefully I can try it out a little.


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## seventwenty

> Cat has come out with a new (improved?) undercarriage that I am not familiar with. Maybe ASV has also (if you are demoing a brand new '09 unit) changed theirs as well. Maybe somone else can comment on that. Good luck.


The new and "improved" Cat undercarriage you speak of they actually refer to as Compact Track Loaders, whereas the ASV style tracks are known as Multi-Terrain Loaders. Regardless, the CTL cat u/c is all metal with a track that has metal lugs embedded which the metal bogie wheels and drive wheels ride in, they also feature torsion bar suspension and a new track style similar to the Bobcat/NH/JD. This new style appears to be intended for use which the MTL's were said to not be used for (slopes, rocky or extremely abrasive environments).

http://www.cat.com/cmms/images/C439450.pdf

OP, I've been looking at tracked Cat for some time now and from the videos I've seen on the web they look like tanks in the snow! The youtube videos above prove it if you ask me. I would demo a Cat too if you have the opportunity, I've never ran a ASV machine but I'm absolutely in love with the cab of the new C series cats.


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## cornerstone

We have an ASV RC 30 and purchased an RC 85 cab/ac last week. Had the ice storm from hell mon,tue,wed of this week. I used the 85 all three days thru the storm at a grocer/strip mall we take care of. I was amazed how well it performed up hill down hill on the loading docks etc... The best part was being able to drive up on the sidewalk infront of the stores and resturants and scrape off the ice. 10,000lb machine with 3.5lb per sq. in. on the sidewalk, priceless. Normally that's the RC 30's job but we blew a hyd. drive hose just before the storm and no time to fix.

The heated cab paid for itself already by avoiding warm up stops. I climbed in at 4:00pm one day during the storm and stopped later for fuel and Mt. Dew and the lady told me it was 9:30pm.

We rented the RC 30 a couple years before purchasing mainly from track maint. fears. I found with the type work we do and only select people operating it the track system hasn't been a problem and having the machine around full time has been a god send. I call the 30 a smart mans wheel barrow. I certainly wouldn't want a rental fleet of them, I think Bobcat or New Holland would live better in that life.


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## seventwenty

I had no idea the ASV machines were so heavy till I was looking on their website!  

What are the cabs in those machines like? They look really small from the outside..


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## Peterbilt

Cabs are nice. Lots of elbow and leg room. They look small an 85 or 100 due to how big the rest of the machines are. Look at a PT30. Same cab smaller machine.


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## jkiser96

Well the ASV performed above my expectationsin the 12" snow we had this week. I had it last night pushing piles up & with a full buket going uphill it hardly bogged down at all. I had a few other contractors stop to see how it was & they all run it & were very impressed.I also had my S-175 pushing as well & it surprised me at how well it did.


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## rredd13

I have 3 pt 100s...2 are with blades 1- 9ft and 1-11ft....the other one i put a 84inch blower on and love this set up ..the travel speed is great. When pushing snow you can drive over the piles and ontop of the snow, i have been ontop of 7 ft banks with them!
Blower works great for blowing the the plow ridges and banks back from the pick up trucks. 
As far as up keep look after the tracks keep em clean and they will last. the asv is a far supirior machine to any other track machine as far as versitility in all conditions. 
I am not going to say they are perfect ...nothing is! but i have been very happy with them the my old ones were in great working order with very little on upkeep to them ...the track system i had really no issues with them i was getting about 2000 hrs- 3000hrs on them. so in my opinion that is equal or better then other track or tire systems.
Operating in snow and ice conditions yes they will slip on pure ice ..but what doesnt! 
But you learn to operate in that condition quickly and easy! 

I will guarentee that with that 9 ft blade on it ...i can out plow any pickup combination out there, and speaking from experience it does out plow our 13 and 18 ft angle plows on 150hp tractors ....because you can plow in both directions winging it over and spinning on the spot.

As far a s dirt and gravel same as any other track model skidsteer ...but smother beacause of suspension on the asv. 

hope this helps you out 

I am NO way bias to a paticulur machine i have case tire machines as well and you can see out of them way better then the ASV's or Cat's ....but all depends on the aplication your using the machines in.


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## cornerstone

RC 85 cab pic


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## riverwalkland

I've used an SR70, SR80 and PT30 ASV in snow and I thought it did better than the S130, S185, Cat 226B and Volvo MC70B Wheeled Skid steers in the snow.


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## sven1277

To clarify on backblade work. ASV states not to run on just the rear of the track because it is putting extra stress on the rear wheels. Just leave the entire track on the ground. I haven't had any issues using it in this manor. The cab in the sr/pt 70/80 are a little tight for larger guys with the flip down lap bars, the other style interior is more open. Overall, I really like them. I have had an rc60, rc100, and now an sr70.


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## MagnumB

Great thread. In keeping with the topic and the comments here. i am looking at the PT80 and the Cat 297c. 

I really like the PT80, nice machine, but I am 6'4" and 300#'s and I have to say the Cat fits me better from a comfort standpoint. I am in this machine all day so this should be a consideration I suppose. Also the airseat in the cat is the only seat suspension system I don't crush...also a plus. 

Real reasons I am considering the 297c is the vertical lift. It's something I absolutely need, I was sad to find out ASV doesn't have that *yet?*

I know from the ASV guys I have talked to, there is nothing better on the planet, but tell me, will that Cat offer similar durability and performance compared to the PT80. Some guys say the PT80 is better balance than the Cat MTL's, but I hear the Vertical lift machines with the extra weight on the back kind of give the 297 a similar feel.

Anyhow, any feedback you can all offer on either of these great machines would be great. I need to decide soon since the in lot PT80 and Cat 297C are 08 stock at the stronger canadian dollar amount. Next stop is 15k more. *OUCH*

thanks in advance for the help.


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## Mid-Ohio Scaper

I have to be honest here. I'm bias when it comes to Caterpillar. Especially when it comes to their new C series. I think Cat took the ASV idea and made it much better, as far as under carriage is concerned. Unless I'm missing something here, if ASV was that great Cat would still want to use their under carriages right??? Anyways, the cab is VERY comfortable, perhaps more comfortable than any other track/skid loader I've been in. 

It's Caterpillar, what else do I need to say. Service is great, machines are great. 
You get what you pay for.:salute:


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## MagnumB

OK, just to clarify, people have often said on this forum that Cat's new undercarriage is replacing the ASV. This is not true, The CTL do serve a different purpose/niche vs the ASV track system. The new improved track system people often talk about on here re: the C series is the redesigned ASV undercarriage that only cat is using because ASV had a glut of older style undercarriages. The main advantage to the new Cat ASV system is that it no longer uses an outer support bearing on the squirel cage motor system, This alone has improved reliability significantly according to my local cat parts/service center. Also this removes the need for the outer cover on the squirel cag which improves mud/debris clearing. etc.

Let me be clear, Cat owns 24%+ percent of ASV, as a result they are fully committed to this undercarriage, as they should be because it provides a unique system and solution to those who need it. On the other hand the CTL track system is more typical of the other manufacturers with the addition of the torsion mount to the chassis. I am sure you know that part of it. But plainly these are two different systems to serve different niche'.

The new CTL far from made obsolete the MTL's from cat, the MTL's still offer the highest level of articulation (inclusive of ASV of course), as well as lower PSI, FAR better all season useability and a far longer lasting track track and tread. You need to be careful driving any of these, but with the openness of the CAT ASV system it's dead easy to keep clean. The CAT C series MTL is a different animal compared to the B series. those outer bearing failures where a BIG part of the issues with those units, that and poor upkeep and driver behavior.

Track units *in all of my research* are certainly more sensitive to abuse. However a few steps taken to change driving habits is rewarded with huge gains in reliability and track life. 

The Steel lug CTL type tracks seem to wear faster, loose contact with the ground more easily, but at the same time are a simpler system. Some say simple is good, then you got it with this, in that case the CAT CTL is the cats a$$ since it rides better than a dump truck and that's something in the Tracked Skid Steer world. In truth it offers similar comfort to the ASV system in some situations, and rougher in others.

The Tread Pattern on the CTL's with large blocks etc don't help things in winter, more than one operator deciding to put his unit to work in winter up here has been unable to gain enough traction to make it back onto the trailer, This is alleviated by a 5-6k polar track setup, it makes a huge difference but changing tracks seasonally is very unlike changing tires seasonally since those tires are cheaper to swap out by between 800-1500k *Cdn*. Get's to be expensive.

Last salesman I talked to said, "but yeah, If you do that you will get twice as much wear time from your tracks!". I say, No freaking way, did you do the math on that yourself? It will also cost me twice as much....more actually with those polar tracks.

At the end of the day this is partly why the ASV track undercarriages are not going anywhere, alot of people just assumed that the CTL's represented cat's REAL take on undercarriages. These two machines are very different in that regard.

For me looking at the PT80 or the Cat 297c it's a no brainer the CTL would be useless to me in the winter....so ASV it is. Again to clarify, the new improved track system people often talk about is actually the updated ASV system. It's much improved over any previous iteration.

Interestingly, an ASV dealer told me that most guys are running too much tension on their tracks. this leads to premature wear etc. Something to think about before you go tightening them up. He said they start out tight, let them break in, and then maintain that level of tension for best results.....interesting idea anyhow.

Sorry if this was long. I just wanted to clarify some points.

Mags


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## KRtraxx

Good info..Just one point that needs clarifying..Cat no longer owns a portion of ASV.Cat has an undercarrige supply agreement with ASV but has no ownership..


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## musclecarboy

Yeah, Terex Inc bought them about a year ago


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## Mid-Ohio Scaper

Okay, from what I understand Caterpillar re-signed a five year deal about two and a half years ago for the MTL undercarriages to be supplied by ASV. Anyone think that when that's expired Cat will make their own undercarriages?


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## MagnumB

Ahhh, good to know. I stand corrected. 

This will not affect Caterpillars use of the track system. Why would it, as long as an agreement is in place. I assume Terex would be more than pleased to move as many of these systems as they can, especially in todays economy, the more exposure the better.

Thanks for the update.

Cheers


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## MagnumB

Mid-Ohio Scaper;762040 said:


> Okay, from what I understand Caterpillar re-signed a five year deal about two and a half years ago for the MTL undercarriages to be supplied by ASV. Anyone think that when that's expired Cat will make their own undercarriages?


I couldn't imagine why they would. The R&D and simply trying a new take on the ASV carriage would make no sense. I would presume that continued refinement would be more cost effective in the long and short term. Unless Terex gets greedy I would suspect this will be a long term relationship. Obviously they saw value in the system when they initially bought into the company why that would change I don't know.

As it stands the ASV track system is among the most functional, and the new MTL "C" variant is looking to be a wonderfully reliable system provided the unit is treated right.

Anyone with any Cat C series MTL experience? I would love some feedback.

BTW what are some of you guys with the larger units (any brand/wheeled/tracked) using them for? just curious.


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## KRtraxx

MagnumB;762059 said:


> Ahhh, good to know. I stand corrected.
> 
> This will not affect Caterpillars use of the track system. Why would it, as long as an agreement is in place. I assume Terex would be more than pleased to move as many of these systems as they can, especially in todays economy, the more exposure the better.
> 
> Thanks for the update.
> 
> Cheers


 Your right ASV/Terex wants their business.I'm pretty sure I am correct on this that Cat is ASVs biggest customer by far..


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## cornerstone

MagnumB;762104 said:


> I couldn't imagine why they would. The R&D and simply trying a new take on the ASV carriage would make no sense. I would presume that continued refinement would be more cost effective in the long and short term. Unless Terex gets greedy I would suspect this will be a long term relationship. Obviously they saw value in the system when they initially bought into the company why that would change I don't know.
> 
> As it stands the ASV track system is among the most functional, and the new MTL "C" variant is looking to be a wonderfully reliable system provided the unit is treated right.
> 
> Anyone with any Cat C series MTL experience? I would love some feedback.
> 
> BTW what are some of you guys with the larger units (any brand/wheeled/tracked) using them for? just curious.


Our ASV RC85 is used at our outdoor living store. Loading palletized flagstone 4000 lbs, retaining wall blocks 3000 lbs and loading gravel etc... Our lot is crusher run so it's on gravel most of the time. We also use it for snow removal, water feature installation and retaining wall installations. Our RC 30 is used on the same construction sites and for small lot tight access construction. If the wheel barrow goes thru the gate it usally will too. I've stated before with the work we do the MTL system is best for us whether it's a cat or ASV. For us the MFG choices stop there. The nearly impactless foot print on the yard is priceless. We can build a waterfall with 700 lb rocks in the backyard of a garden home going thru a 48" gate and not tear the sod up. The RC 85 has the same flying carpet foot print but 4000 lb rocks can come into play.Drive over a sprinkler head, no problem. I rented T140 and T300 bobcats before buying the ASV's. They are better than tires for us but any CTL is going to walk harder than an MTL. Durability is determined by use and operator. I really think like any equipment the questions are, what will I need to do and what can this machine do. If the answers match you've found your machine. MTL hourly usage may be considered much higher by many, but for us the lack of property damage/repair must be considered and given credit.
OK, I'm done rattling.


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## BobcatGuy

*Issues with Cat 277c*

Just wondering who has these problems with thier 277, or 287 or similar C series machines.

1. push into a pile of anything, and pile it higher, eg, lift arms up, and tilt down at same time. Such as loading a truck.
- Drop lift arms down so that bucket edge touches ground, ( but do not move tilt cylinders) does your tilt cylinders free float? ie, does it seem to have a air gap in the cylinder? ( Please actually try this before responding.)

This issue is also present in the lift cylinders if you lift and tilt down but keeping the bucket edge on the ground, lift and tilt so that the bucket is about 90 deg. to ground. Drive machine forward and back, ie ver short distance, do the LIFT cylinders move up and down on their own as you move the machine forward and reverse?

I was explained several things about this. one was that the pump was not pumping enough oil so that is why there is a void in the cylinder, I ask well, Air? No, just a void, but not air. My next question to the dealer was, well, if it is a void, how did the cylinder move the 12 inches further then the amount of oil in the cylinder? no oil, then what moved it? No real answers, other then look up VOID in the dictionary.

The issue with the tilt is really annoying when you lift and tilt down, dump your loam, then go to backblade it and the bucket just flops over your little pile. you have to cycle the tilt cyclinders to remove the air/void, then it will work properly. Really annoying when you do that 500 times a day.

Dealer keeps saying its the way I operate, so the only thing I changed about operating is that I cycle the tilt a little before I go to back blade it, but this isnt the fix, Haha Is it?

The dealer does a great job for service otehr wise, either they dont know what the issue is, or dont understand me. ( I have shown them what it is in their yard.) This issue was even more severe in the 257b2 that I "ditched" back to the dealer when I got the 277c.

Any ideas, do you experience the same things?


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## Peterbilt

Does it have anything to do with the Electric pilots in the C series cats? Maybe the computer is telling the cylinders to move? 

My loaders don't do this at all. I have a lot of slop and some hydraulic bleed in one machine, and no problems with the other 2.

J.


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## icudoucme

i thought this was a cool video.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3m87s_timbercoop-comparatif-avec-bobcat-t_news


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## accipiter12

icudoucme;852107 said:


> i thought this was a cool video.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3m87s_timbercoop-comparatif-avec-bobcat-t_news


Amazing video.


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## icudoucme

okay this should work......

I don't own and ASV i have rented a cat 257b, jd332, and takeuchi tl240, and an asvrc80 the rc80 was the best out of all i think these videos will do a pretty good job of showing off there good points.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3m06t_timbercoop-porteoutil-100cv-pour-br_news

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3m87s_timbercoop-comparatif-avec-bobcat-t_news

if those don't work here is a last resort. the link in that thread works.

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=852373#post852373


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