# Hourly Rates?



## redstroker_2002

For everyone that is pricing by the hour. I would like to see what other people through out the country are making. We charge everything by the hour. Our pick up prices are $110 an hour. Our payloader is $120 hour and i believe the dump trucks to haul snow out is $110 an hour. We are a commerical business that runs 13 plow trucks two 6 yard bucket payloaders and 4 kenworth dump trucks.


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## SullivanSeptic

I am sending out track bobcats with an operator at $80 an hour and backhoe with an operator at $90 an hour. These are for loading out snow. No plowing or push boxes. Machines are staying on the same lot for a few days. So not much trailering either. Semi dump trucks are lucky to get $90 an hour here. Too many trucks and not enough work.


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## redman6565

redstroker_2002;716588 said:


> For everyone that is pricing by the hour. I would like to see what other people through out the country are making. We charge everything by the hour. Our pick up prices are $110 an hour. Our payloader is $120 hour and i believe the dump trucks to haul snow out is $110 an hour. We are a commerical business that runs 13 plow trucks two 6 yard bucket payloaders and 4 kenworth dump trucks.


i'd say you're pretty f*in lucky if you're geeting 110 for a pick-up. around here they are valued at 75 per hour best.


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## Jon Schuler

I agree those prices are things of the past for the most part around here. There may be a few places that will pay that but they seem to be few and far between. Loaders as low as 85 an hour Ive seen.


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## Jay brown

we are about half that around here on pickups and about $75/hr will get you a dump, not sure on big loaders, because no one has one for snow.....


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## blowerman

Pick ups range from $60-80 per hour in Milwaukee area.


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## redstroker_2002

wow the low for a pickup around here is abou 100 an hour. i am surprised


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## snowjoker

redman6565;716695 said:


> i'd say you're pretty f*in lucky if you're geeting 110 for a pick-up. around here they are valued at 75 per hour best.


You Offered me $35 an hour..... Unbelevable :realmad:


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## JeffNY

You guys would really spend an hour at a place, and send a bill for SIXTY dollars? Are you high? 
If that were the case, I wouldn't touch commercials, I would plow residentials all day @ $25+/pop.


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## ncsinc

wow we get 135 hour for loader and 135 for 6 wheel dump


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## Rangerman

we get 110 per hour per truck 65 dollar min. for resi or comm


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## kootoomootoo

Per hour doesnt mean much if you are only getting 2 hours. Now everyone gets to inflate their hours with their $.

How many hours are you guys BILLING per storm.


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## exmark1

We make around $100.00 per hour/per truck. Everything is billed out per time but that is what it ends up being at the end of the day!


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## 24v6spd

After figuring the bid price versus the time spent on the job I am averaging $135.00 an hour for a pickup.


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## SullivanSeptic

ncsinc;721288 said:


> wow we get 135 hour for loader and 135 for 6 wheel dump


What kind of loader? I wish I could get that. I just had a loader bobcat and two six wheel dumps out for 40 hours hauling snow. I wasnt getting near that. Where are you at in IL NCSinc?


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## 02 Stroked

I get $85 an hour for F350 with an 8ft blade...


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## Brant'sLawnCare

blowerman;716744 said:


> Pick ups range from $60-80 per hour in Milwaukee area.


I agree. I bid a job at $100/hr for my pickup. I think I lost it because of that. So now I charge $80/hr for my one pickup. I think that's pretty high around here too. I was talking to one of my friends, and he was gonna haul snow away for me for $150/hr. That included the dump truck, and the skid steer. I was suprised to hear that.


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## Snowbrdr360

Ive noticed, this year especialy in my area that everybody and their brother has a plow hanging off the front of their truck. I know of 3 lots that I lost charging $80/hr for 1 truck, some un-insured you know what came in and is doing it at $45/hr, I just dont see how they can make any money off it, and its no huge outfit either, the guy is a one man show. Now half of the stuff we do is our own, (buddy and I are in buisness togther) so thats another story, but its downright dirty with all the low ballers out there. I'm betting that I get 1 or 2 of them back next year, they're all right on my route and constantly look like crap, never cleared out in the morning on time, ect..


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## Brant'sLawnCare

Snowbrdr360;722907 said:


> Ive noticed, this year especialy in my area that everybody and their brother has a plow hanging off the front of their truck. I know of 3 lots that I lost charging $80/hr for 1 truck, some un-insured you know what came in and is doing it at $45/hr, I just dont see how they can make any money off it, and its no huge outfit either, the guy is a one man show. Now half of the stuff we do is our own, (buddy and I are in buisness togther) so thats another story, but its downright dirty with all the low ballers out there. I'm betting that I get 1 or 2 of them back next year, they're all right on my route and constantly look like crap, never cleared out in the morning on time, ect..


Is that the dude with the skid steere that you showed me? lol. You won't have to worry about that guy next year.


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## Snowbrdr360

Brant'sLawnCare;722911 said:


> Is that the dude with the skid steere that you showed me? lol. You won't have to worry about that guy next year.


Yep thats him, I know hes not gunna last:yow!:


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## Brant'sLawnCare

Snowbrdr360;722916 said:


> Yep thats him, I know hes not gunna last:yow!:


You should buy that skid steere from him. It was definitely a nice piece of equipment.


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## redman6565

snowjoker;720971 said:


> You Offered me $35 an hour..... Unbelevable :realmad:


i said at best...most of my contracts have pick ups factored in between 45 to 55 per lot, so i have to make money as well.


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## yardatwork

I never tell people what the hourly rate is that I base my prices on. However, around Western Pennsylvania the hourly rate is $75-$100 for a pickup truck. I go in and give a price based on lot size. If I went in and said $100 per hour, that initial said price that goes into their ears and then to their brain would scare them. At the end of the day and with travel to and from the city I do the majority of my contracts, it works out to $100/hour.


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## redman6565

yardatwork;724991 said:


> I never tell people what the hourly rate is that I base my prices on. However, around Western Pennsylvania the hourly rate is $75-$100 for a pickup truck. I go in and give a price based on lot size. If I went in and said $100 per hour, that initial said price that goes into their ears and then to their brain would scare them. At the end of the day and with travel to and from the city I do the majority of my contracts, it works out to $100/hour.


oh definately, most of my contracts are per trip or seasonal.


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## augerandblade

Once we start talking money Im reminded of the country song Its lieing time again. A 25 dollar spread on truck rates is enough to get you to lose the bid.


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## TurfSolutionsMN

Here in southern MN were lucky to get $60 an hour per truck. That why we bid per push and go as fast as we can.


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## QuadPlower

It works out that I make a buck a minute plowing snow with my plow truck. 

Believe it or not, last year I was making $220/ hr. plowing sidewalks. Got under bid this year at $179/hr. And that was for 5 hours.


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## JMR

We used to bill some of our accounts by the hour. A few years ago we switched to strictly by the push. We are billing about $2000 in plowing per storm with about 14 truck hours. So a tad over $140 per hour for our trucks equiped with 7.5' blades and prowings. Snow Blower / Shovler is only billing at $54 per hour, $270 per storm with 5 hours of work.

Currently the only time we would use hourly rates is if we went into the blizaard clause portion in our contracts and that rarely happens around here. We generally only get 2-3 inches at a time. We been out plowing only 4 times so far this year, but looks like we could be doing a little pushing this weekend.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

you have a 6 yard bucket front loader and charge $120hr? WTF?

I can get nearly double that in NJ, which isnt the kicker, everything is 2x here, but i can get that for a very small less than 1 yard bucket tractor. A 6 yarder bucket we could get $400-500hr with here, they only use them at big lots like malls and huge parking lots.


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## Neige

Ramairfreak98ss;727271 said:


> you have a 6 yard bucket front loader and charge $120hr? WTF?
> 
> I can get nearly double that in NJ, which isnt the kicker, everything is 2x here, but i can get that for a very small less than 1 yard bucket tractor. A 6 yarder bucket we could get $400-500hr with here, they only use them at big lots like malls and huge parking lots.


Prices are all relative. I could get $250 for my loader with blower, if someone is in a pinch.
Last year my city called for our blower. I said $225.00 an hour, they said $150 or we go to next guy on our list. I agreed and worked around 140 hours. This year I said $225.00 or find someone else. Guess what 0 hrs to date. If they get in a jam they will pay the $225.00, but am I better of this way. Saying what you can get, and then getting it are two very different things.


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## lawnwolf

*Hourly Rates*

My rates average around $200 per hour for residential driveways (no shoveling) in Malvern, PA.
I have around 20 contracts ranging from $35 to $200 for a 2-4" storm. I service all my driveways within 7 hours after the storm ends.

I use a 2004 Ford F-350 Super Duty 6 liter diesel with a Boss "V" Plow.
I have been plowing for thirty years.


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## cretebaby

Neige;729945 said:


> Saying what you can get, and then getting it are two very different things.


Can I nominate that for understatement of the year

PS wouldnt it be worth more with the bucket on LOL


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## BMWSTUD25

Neige;729945 said:


> Saying what you can get, and then getting it are two very different things.


 payup

I agree with Crete on this too. I know I can average well over 200 an hour in most storms but only for a few hours while im on the most compact part of the route. after that it dwindles down and in a hurry as they get more spread out and drive time increases and seasonal contract clean ups start. payup


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## redman6565

lawnwolf;733018 said:


> My rates average around $200 per hour for residential driveways (no shoveling) in Malvern, PA.
> I have around 20 contracts ranging from $35 to $200 for a 2-4" storm. I service all my driveways within 7 hours after the storm ends.
> 
> I use a 2004 Ford F-350 Super Duty 6 liter diesel with a Boss "V" Plow.
> I have been plowing for thirty years.


i'd say you're getting some pretty damn good rates out there buddy


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## jjmcnace

JMR;727165 said:


> We used to bill some of our accounts by the hour. A few years ago we switched to strictly by the push. We are billing about $2000 in plowing per storm with about 14 truck hours. So a tad over $140 per hour for our trucks equiped with 7.5' blades and prowings. Snow Blower / Shovler is only billing at $54 per hour, $270 per storm with 5 hours of work.
> 
> Currently the only time we would use hourly rates is if we went into the blizaard clause portion in our contracts and that rarely happens around here. We generally only get 2-3 inches at a time. We been out plowing only 4 times so far this year, but looks like we could be doing a little pushing this weekend.


JMR that is about exactly what I am getting here in Iowa.


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## HULK2184

i guess im getting screwed then, $50 per hour as a sub, 1st year plowing with my own truck but plowed for 5-6years


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## Turbodiesel

I'd say it all depends on the clientele and location. 

Some respect and value your service while others could care less and use their liability insurance more often


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## BMWSTUD25

HULK2184;738127 said:


> i guess im getting screwed then, $50 per hour as a sub, 1st year plowing with my own truck but plowed for 5-6years


Not really. a sub rate is always gonna be less for a couple of factors. usually no advertising, less overhead and often your not committed to the lots for the whole season amongst others.


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## redman6565

HULK2184;738127 said:


> i guess im getting screwed then, $50 per hour as a sub, 1st year plowing with my own truck but plowed for 5-6years


it's all relative man, there are so many different factors that go into pricing it's ridiculous. market values, snow fall amounts, competition all play major roles


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## HULK2184

Thanks for the help guys i guess i didnt really think about all the other trouble they have and over head that they have too. CHEEERS!


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## redstroker_2002

i know alot of guess bill differently but i guess we just look at we just get paid for the time we spend there. I just dont think its not fair to your customer to pay for service all year if you get a little snow year like we have had. so the time you are there is the time you get paid for. We probably have only got a total of 10 inches all year!! god it is just pissin me off


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## Greenwalt

I get $35 @hr on a quad doing sidewalks and dropping calcium until i'm blue in the face....

As far as trucks, most around here seem to get $75hr. I don't know how you guys can get $120, I think this area is just over inflated with equipment.


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## MileHigh

As a Sub contractor...I am paid $75/hr for truck time, and $25/hr additional per shoveler I bring with me.

As a Contractor...I charge $125/hr for a pickup, NO PRO RATING...

I have an contracted account that takes me literally 10 Min to push...I bill it out for a per-push at $125.00....no complaints...He actually just signed my contract for landscape maintenance the other day.


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## tls22

I plow for beer money


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## azandy

We are at $80 per hour for a pick up here in Green Bay. There are people already buying plows this winter and plowing here for 50-60 and driveways for 15. if I have to do that I'll throw in the towel


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## creativedesigns

02 Stroked;721986 said:


> I get $85 an hour for F350 with an 8ft blade...


In Ottawa, you'd get a Tri-Axle dump truck on rental for that price!


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## creativedesigns

tls22;747142 said:


> I plow for beer money


Thats why you have so many liquid assets!!! LOL :waving:


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## IMAGE

tls22;747142 said:


> I plow for beer money


Me too, but I drink alot


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## Snowaway

tls22;747142 said:


> I plow for beer money


There is a guy around here who has WILL PLOW FOR BEER writen on his plow.


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## creativedesigns

Snowaway;747226 said:


> There is a guy around here who has WILL PLOW FOR BEER writen on his plow.


Tls has that written on his truck! LOL hahahaha


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## tls22

IMAGE;747195 said:


> Me too, but I drink alot





Snowaway;747226 said:


> There is a guy around here who has WILL PLOW FOR BEER writen on his plow.





creativedesigns;747278 said:


> Tls has that written on his truck! LOL hahahaha


lmao...its the only way to do it. lmao cre


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## 02 Stroked

creativedesigns;747184 said:


> In Ottawa, you'd get a Tri-Axle dump truck on rental for that price!


That sucks! That's pretty cheep!


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## Ipushsnow

I average around $120 per hour. If a customer insists to be billed per hour I quote $100.00. When customers try to negotiate I will drop it to $90 as soon as they ask. Then take 6 1/2 minutes longer to do it!!!!!!!!!


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## Dubliner

When all is said and done we average between 190 and 200 per hour per storm. Have had these customers for 20 plus years.Use two trucks hire out loader work and sanding less hassles.


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## Joneill

Any recent prices? im hearing loaders with an operator is about $350. an hour and a pick up and operator is between $80-$100.


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## beanz27

I'm amazed at the op, a 6 yard loader for that price? Nuts. My 4.25 yard is $200, 2.5 loaders are $150, $65-75 for trucks here, skids 75-95


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## Joneill

not sure on size of loader, skids are $100-$125 an hr, im looking into loader rates id like to purchase one, thanks


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## beanz27

Joneill;1964982 said:


> not sure on size of loader, skids are $100-$125 an hr, im looking into loader rates id like to purchase one, thanks


How big are you looking at


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## Joneill

i dont have one specific machine in mind, but after speaking with the guy i plow for he recomended i buy a second truck for now, he wants to buy the loader and only pay an operator. i think im gonna try that route and see how it goes, thanks


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## Aura Lawns

Around Northern VA we are at around $115 per hour for pickup trucks


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## Joneill

$115 for a pick up is great, im getting $85 and happy with that


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## Diesel Dan

Around here $55 for a straight blade and $65 for a V is the sub rate. If I'm bidding a push I'd aim for $100 an hour.


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## Grantski

I just started this year - also wondering if im pricing right for residential. I picked up a 97 f250 w western unimount for $6k / just a handfull of accounts to learn on. So far ive been averaging $100 an hour and thats with my 4wd not working so im taking it slow. Pricing $40 for an average size driveaway...and I just tell them its more $$ for larger storms. I decide how many pushes based on the storm. Half the ppl give me more than what I ask. I noticed trying to explain the "inch triggers" just makes things too complicated...seems like that works better for commercial accts.


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## John_DeereGreen

Damn this is an old thread.


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## TwoBrosLawn

on the first page a guy from milwaukee said hes getting 60 an hour in 2009, my pick ups are getting 85-100, last winter I paid 2 subs 100/hr. to do residentials.


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## JustJeff

This entire thread is completely subjective. This is just an observation, but it appears that areas that average the most snow usually have a lower per hour wage, simply because the market can't bear the high dollar hourly averages when they get so much more snow. It would bankrupt businesses to pay 150.00 per truck in a place like Alaska, or the mountainous parts of Montana or Wyoming where they can average 200" or more per year. Again, just an observation. Also, factor in what some people are paying for their liability insurance, and someone who's billing 200.00 per hour may only actually be making 55.00 per hour after it's all said and done in a place like NJ, where insurance rates are so crazy. 

Then someone thinks he's getting ripped off at 55.00 per hour being a sub, but it doesn't say if he's paying his own insurance, or the company is paying it for him, who's paying for his fuel? Or what the actual contractor is charging the customer. There's just too many variables to factor in when comparing hourly wages. If you wanted a more accurate number, people should compare what their "net" is after expenses.

Just my .02.


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## 1olddogtwo

Less is more

More is less


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## KYsnow

So are you driveway guys only plowing the driveway? What about the sidewalks and the walk up to the house and porch? Is that part of the price or extra?


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## SnoFarmer

KYsnow;2026754 said:


> So are you driveway guys only plowing the driveway? What about the sidewalks and the walk up to the house and porch? Is that part of the price or extra?


for us it's A'la carte.
city sidewalk $$$
walk from house to drive$$.
salt$
to get me out of the truck $$$$$.

or you can add them to your existing price.
it's up to you how you sell your services.


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## andersman02

We only have 1 hourly, it's a family friend who owns many apartment complexes in my city. I know all there complexes and will push a couple here and there, I charge them $95 I believe, using a wide out. If a customer ever asks, I tell them we don't do hourly. I bid lots at using around 125/ hr. Skid is only used for moving piles and billed at 125 since its all done with no real time frame. We only have 4 trucks and a small service area, no sense in getting out of bed for crumbs. Our business model is based on the 8 warm months. Any thing in the winter it's extra income


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## DesMoines2500

Des Moines Iowa here. We are doing everything hourly with one lot at $65, one at $70 and the remaining 3 at $80/hr.

Outside work rangers from $25-$40.


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## 32vld

Harleyjeff;2019810 said:


> This entire thread is completely subjective. This is just an observation, but it appears that areas that average the most snow usually have a lower per hour wage, simply because the market can't bear the high dollar hourly averages when they get so much more snow. It would bankrupt businesses to pay 150.00 per truck in a place like Alaska, or the mountainous parts of Montana or Wyoming where they can average 200" or more per year. Again, just an observation. Also, factor in what some people are paying for their liability insurance, and someone who's billing 200.00 per hour may only actually be making 55.00 per hour after it's all said and done in a place like NJ, where insurance rates are so crazy.
> 
> Then someone thinks he's getting ripped off at 55.00 per hour being a sub, but it doesn't say if he's paying his own insurance, or the company is paying it for him, who's paying for his fuel? Or what the actual contractor is charging the customer. There's just too many variables to factor in when comparing hourly wages. If you wanted a more accurate number, people should compare what their "net" is after expenses.
> 
> Just my .02.


Cost of living is an important factor though the amount of snow fall effects peoples decisions to get into snow plowing.

When you live where they average 36" a year not many people will spend the money to get into plowing.

Though you take an area that gets 100" on average many more people are tempted to see there is enough work available for me to buy a plow make some money.

So you always will find more plows then their are driveways and parking lots. Just as there is always more mowers then lawns.

This is an easy business to get into and start small. Lots people always had trucks. Now trucks are even more popular and almost all of them are 4WD.
Combine that with people are looking to make some side money and for many that have jobs/careers that will allow them to, go do snow removal.

For the most part they have no business training and fail to see that when they get paid $40 for doing a job they think they got paid $40. When in reality their business grossed $40. Combine not knowing the true cost of running a business and the true area pricing they sell their services way less then they should.

So this industry will have a high turn over.


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## unimog-guy

KYsnow;2026754 said:


> So are you driveway guys only plowing the driveway? What about the sidewalks and the walk up to the house and porch? Is that part of the price or extra?


Depending on length/slope determines $$. Most of the driveways I do are $50 a piece. Although I do have one that pays $200 but it is long. If you want me to do the sidewalk (with a snowblower) it's $45. I don't want to get out of the warm truck. I can do another driveway in the same amount of time as I can pull the blower off the truck, do the sidewalk and load the blower back up. I went around to the most expensive neighborhoods with $400k+ houses so when I say $50 they don't even blink. So that's over $100 an hour.

A friend of mine works for VDOT and here is what he was getting last year to plow:
His trucks with 8' plows, and 2.5 yard sanders make $170 an hour pushing and $85 an hour sitting. His trucks with 11' and 12' blades and 8 yard sanders make $230 an hour pushing, 115 sitting. Cost of living is something to consider.


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## Mistifier

100/hr but then a buddy and I both bought rear plows (14' and 16') and upped the price b/c its so much faster


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## Ne1

redstroker_2002 said:


> For everyone that is pricing by the hour. I would like to see what other people through out the country are making. We charge everything by the hour. Our pick up prices are $110 an hour. Our payloader is $120 hour and i believe the dump trucks to haul snow out is $110 an hour. We are a commerical business that runs 13 plow trucks two 6 yard bucket payloaders and 4 kenworth dump trucks.


I'm only two hours away from you and were not seeing those kind of prices around here. Must be because your in a small town and not much competition.


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## SnoFarmer

Mistifier said:


> 100/hr but then a buddy and I both bought rear plows (14' and 16') and upped the price b/c its so much faster


And there lies the issue with charging the client by the hr.
who sets the speed at which the work will be done.

The client questioning the hrs on the invoice when you cleared 3" one tine at 2hrs and the next time it snowed 3" at 3hrs.


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## ktfbgb

SnoFarmer said:


> And there lies the issue with charging the client by the hr.
> who sets the speed at which the work will be done.
> 
> The client questioning the hrs on the invoice when you cleared 3" one tine at 2hrs and the next time it snowed 3" at 3hrs.


Most the commercial properties in my area are accustomed to paying hourly. The contractors have educated the clients in the value of hourly pricing. We get paid for every bit of work we do and they don't have to pay for the padding and extra contigincies you would put into a per push or seasonal contract. Once you explain that you are adding 30% to your seasonal average just to cover your butt in case there is a abnormal amount of snow that year, and or having complicated blizzard clauses etc. they usually go for paying for what they get. As for variances in how long one storm takes over the other, good communication with the client is key. Try to always assign the same operator to the same route so the lot is always plowed by the same person. When that isn't possible you know how long it should take and if you have a new guy that takes an extra hour because he is unfamiliar with the lot maybe you just have to eat it that time and get that operator better training. Offer the client the chance to observe the work while in progress. Explain what's going on while it's happening. Once they trust you and see what's going on they usually don't feel the need to question anymore.


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## SnoFarmer

With per push the Comsershail customer knows what his costs is when it snows,
No one has to eat time or explains their invoice.

contiginces, like incremental pricing, that leads to issues also.
$xxx for any snowfall up to 12" then $ $xx for any snow fall over that.

30% fudge factor, I wish it was that much... we call it profit. It's not a bad word it's how I/we make a living and keep the doors open.



Why take a pay cut for a prophicant operator, investing in more efficient equipment ,have to explane your invoice the client or eat time for a rookie? I don't want to have to explane anything to my client or eat time.
To have variables in conditions or the employes performance for me to bill by the hr.

Explaing your time to a Nationail and you may end up eating a lot of time.

Why would an employee care how long he takes when 8hr pays the same reguardless of what he accomplished?

The rest of my work is seasional for residential drives ,This has worked out well.

I can entertain your position, but my clients don't want to have the ins and outs of plowing explained to them
They just want a clear lot when they get to work or for their customers, they could care less how I do it.

I know your methoid may work for extremely large operations. It just doesn't work out for us.


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## ktfbgb

SnoFarmer said:


> With per push the Comsershail customer knows what his costs is when it snows,
> No one has to eat time or explains their invoice.
> 
> contiginces, like incremental pricing, that leads to issues also.
> $xxx for any snowfall up to 12" then $ $xx for any snow fall over that.
> 
> Why take a pay cut for a prophicant operator, investing in more efficient equipment or have to explane ot eat time for a rookie? I don't want to have to explane anything to my client or eat time.
> To have variables in conditions or the employes performance for me to bill by the hr.
> 
> Why would an employee care how long he takes when 8hr pays the same reguardless of what he accomplished?
> 
> The rest of my work is seasional for residential drives ,This has worked out well.
> 
> I can entertain your position, but my clients don't want to have the ins and outs of plowing explained to them
> They just want a clear lot when they get to work or for their customers, they could care less how I do it.
> 
> I know your methoid may work for extremely large operations. It just doesn't work out for us.


I can appreciate that way of doing things as well. We have a one hour minimum as do most around here. So the lot takes 20 min. We get an hour every time we show up min. When lots are close you can do 4 20 min lots in an hour and make 4 hours pay for one hour work. I guess when you think about it most lots are a min charge so the are getting a per push price essentially. The incentive for our workers is that in our small town of 120,000 people word gets around fast. snow removal is one of the best paying jobs here and they want to keep their job. If they don't don't do a good job quickly they are fired. Most the guys know each other so if you get fired from one it's going to be really hard to get hired at another. All my residential drives are seasonal just like yours. Our snow may be different from yours too not sure how it is there but here we can get really wet snow that takes just as long to clear 8 inches as it would take to clear a really cold light 14 inches. We get both types of storms here. I guess different parts of the country are just used to different ways of charging. To me whichever way makes you the most money is the way to go!


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## ktfbgb

Oh and not 4 20 min lots in an hour, 3 if they are close to each other. Obviously lol, can't make up my own math rules.


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## JMHConstruction

Paying/charging by the hour is stupid and ridiculous for both the property owner/manager and the contractor. As the property owner you then have to worry about the guy taking WAY too long to plow your lot because he wants to get a little extra money. Then because he took too long they're now worrying that someone may slip because the lot that should take 1 hour is taking 2 hours, so something isn't finished. Same for the contractor. Why would you ever want to invest in or find ways to make jobs go quicker. If you're by the job, going from a 7.5' straight blade to a 9.5' v you could add more accounts because of efficiency, therefore making more profit. If you did the same while charging hourly the only thing you'd be doing is creating more of a headache for yourself with the added accounts, but if you didn't add them you would be making less because jobs are getting done faster.

At any job, if you are faster and more productive you don't want to be making the same as someone who is slow and wastes time. Why would you want to do it in snow removal?


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## JMHConstruction

Okay, I'll give you the minimum as a way to make more. It still doesn't make since to me why anyone would want to do that though. If it works for you, go with it. It wouldn't fly out here anyway. People don't like to think about paying some over $100/hr. They prefer to see it as paying for a job to be completed.


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## ktfbgb

JMHConstruction said:


> Okay, I'll give you the minimum as a way to make more. It still doesn't make since to me why anyone would want to do that though. If it works for you, go with it. It wouldn't fly out here anyway. People don't like to think about paying some over $100/hr. They prefer to see it as paying for a job to be completed.


I'm with you on wanting to charge a flat rate for the lot. That what I do for for all my construction work. I always try to do hard quote/bid for that. You always make more money over hourly. But like I said in the original explanation of how we charge up here the contractors have educated the clients to an hourly rate for snow removal selling them on the hourly so that they pay only for what they get. I wasn't necessarily agreeing with it, I was just saying that its traditional here so that's what we do. Given the chance to give per push pricing I would prefer that but it just doesn't really fly here on the commercial side. I guess maybe I should try pushing that and see if it flys. Hell maybe it would give me an edge over my competition. Here we usually negotiate over the per hour price and not the overall cost each time we show up. Maybe reeducating businesses here to per push would work out in my favor. It would at least cut down on headache from tracking time.


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## Mistifier

SnoFarmer said:


> And there lies the issue with charging the client by the hr.
> who sets the speed at which the work will be done.
> 
> The client questioning the hrs on the invoice when you cleared 3" one tine at 2hrs and the next time it snowed 3" at 3hrs.


My buddy takes meticulous notes, and after the 2nd or 3rd snow with the push plow, he compared, and needed 250/hr for the same snow. I dont have his advantage of pushing the same customers for yrs with just a front plow (and the records). I started last yr with both plows, in an area that has never seen, let alone know of the big pull plows. Trying to ask someone to pay 250 when everyone else pays 100 +-.... needless to say im stuggling, but refuse to drag $12K+ in plows for the same price as the tard with a crap truck and plow, been contemplating trying to do per push pricing (also doesn't happen around here)


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## Mistifier

After using the 14' PULL plow, he compared his notes. Not after using the push plow.


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## nick14

Hey guys, Im new to plowing and I want to try it out a little bit this winter. I have done hours on hours of research and reading different threads. I think i have figured out that I want to charge a flat rate per push with a trigger of 3". My only question I have left is how much to charge when I give a quote. I will be plowing small lots and storage units. I guess the best way for me to give them an accurate quote is to know how long it will take me to completely clear that lot. Does someone know how long on average it would take to clear 1 acre? just so i have a base line to go off of. any info would be great! thanks


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## ktfbgb

nick14 said:


> Hey guys, Im new to plowing and I want to try it out a little bit this winter. I have done hours on hours of research and reading different threads. I think i have figured out that I want to charge a flat rate per push with a trigger of 3". My only question I have left is how much to charge when I give a quote. I will be plowing small lots and storage units. I guess the best way for me to give them an accurate quote is to know how long it will take me to completely clear that lot. Does someone know how long on average it would take to clear 1 acre? just so i have a base line to go off of. any info would be great! thanks


Um if your brand new you should spend a few seasons working for someone else before you go out on your own. I wouldn't spend $8,000 on a new set up before knowing if you even like it. Are you used to getting up at 3am to start your route? I could go on and on but really don't waste your money before doing it for a while. If you're set on getting a plow or already bought one then work as a sub for someone for a while first. An experienced operator will clear a square acre lot with no islands, parking stops, light poles etc. with around 3" -4 " of snow in about 45 min. Time goes up from there with more snow, slope, any of the above obstacles etc. I would guess that if your new and haven't done it before it would probably take twice that time. And what's with the 3" trigger? Do you mean your doing residential? You said lot so I'm assuming commercial. There isn't a commercial out there in my area that would ask for a 3" trigger. That's way too much snow. Most commercials around here are a 1" some are 2".


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## SnoFarmer

8.5 plow + 3" +1 acre = 1hr or less avg.
for a smooth lot , few obstacles and being to place the snow along any edge of the lot. 

triggers, I like it to be 1"-2" when the business is open.
but a lot more can accumulate over night.

storage units can take much longer with there long pushes.


what are you going to use to plow with?


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## BUFF

SnoFarmer said:


> 8.5 plow + 3" +1 acre = 1hr or less avg.
> for a smooth lot , few obstacles and being to place the snow along any edge of the lot.
> 
> triggers, I like it to be 1"-2" when the business is open.
> but a lot more can accumulate over night.
> 
> storage units can take much longer with there long pushes.
> 
> what are you going to use to plow with?


1hr......Hope that includes mandatory union breaks.... An acre as you described should take no more then 30minutes withoot beating on your equipment.

Besides longer pushes in storage units places to stack are typically and issue since most barley have enough room to drive a pick-up with a trailer behind it.


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## SnoFarmer

He is new, I highly doubt he is as proficient at it as you.
key words, "or less".
some put across the lot spilling snow to the clean side , some move along, some use 7ft plows, some use 10ft plows, some plow powder, some plow wet heavy snow.


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## BUFF

SnoFarmer said:


> He is new, I highly doubt he is as proficient at it as you.
> key words, "or less".
> some put across the lot spilling snow to the clean side , some move along, some use 7ft plows, some use 10ft plows, some plow powder, some plow wet heavy snow.


Yeah I guess.....


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## FOMOCOMAN

Hey guys, I don't ever really post anything, just kinda creep around gathering info! Ive only done seasonal on my big accounts. On occasion we do some extras and I bill my one tons out at 125 per hr. Skidsteer 125 per hr. 6 ton dump with 10 ft plow 125 per hr unless doing removal then it's 85 PR hr. Our articulated is only on seasonal but have done removal for others at 200 per hr. Not bragging but all our operators are truly top notch. I guess I'm lucky to have the accounts and get the rates. I don't know how someone can make money at 35 per hr? I'm glad to see you all helping each other out. If we stick together, well all make money! And I for one need the money, not the practice!


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