# Help Bidding Subdivion



## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

I have never encountered bidding on a full subdivision, can anyone point in the right direction on where to begin?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

First of all, start in July or August.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Setty said:


> I have never encountered bidding on a full subdivision, can anyone point in the right direction on where to begin?


Ask them why they're just now getting a contractor, are they this behind on everything? 
Why'd they get rid of the last guy?


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

Oh


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

Thanks bossplow those are good questions I’ll have to ask! So where do I begin on quoting it?


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> First of all, start in July or August.


Oh I thought this was a website with people that wanted to help not be Critical... I can't help whenpeople call me and ask for a quote Thanks for the help Mark


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Roads, driveways , walkways???!
Where? What do the specs entail...
Seasonal, per push, per inch, what equipment? 24 hr service? Town subdivision or hoa? I don't know where to start either...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Setty said:


> Oh I thought this was a website with people that wanted to help not be Critical... I can't help whenpeople call me and ask for a quote Thanks for the help Mark


You're welcome and I'm out.


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

Just the streets it's a hoa with a plow truck about 100 house sub looking for help on both quotes



Mr.Markus said:


> Roads, driveways , walkways???!
> Where? What do the specs entail...
> Seasonal, per push, per inch, what equipment? 24 hr service? Town subdivision or hoa? I don't know where to start either...


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

It's 2 quotes now...?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Ask them why they're just now getting a contractor, are they this behind on everything?
> Why'd they get rid of the last guy?


That isn't very helpful.


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

Mr.Markus said:


> It's 2 quotes now...?


No 1 quote but seasonal and per push I need help with on where to start on quoting it


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That isn't very helpful.


I thought you were out? Do you have an input on the post or no?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

How many miles of roads? 
Just the roads, or drives?
Where is this location?
At what inch is call out?

What's your experience in plowing?
How many guys you got?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

How long will it take you?


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

A


dieselss said:


> How many miles of roads?
> Just the roads, or drives?
> Where is this location?
> At what inch is call out?
> ...


 mile and a half call out is 2 inches in Michigan been plowing for the past 8 years only subcontracted subdivisions and it would be one truck


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

Mr.Markus said:


> How long will it take you?


Depending on how much snow I'm thinking a hour or so


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

How much do you need per hour


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> That isn't very helpful.


I should go work for Boss


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

Mr.Markus said:


> How much do you need per hour


I've alrwady factored that in but I'm looking to find out how how to price a 100 house hoa 1.5 of roadways


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

1.5 miles of roadway*


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Setty said:


> I've alrwady factored that in but I'm looking to find out how how to price a 100 house hoa 1.5 of roadways


What does that mean?

You were asked how long will it take you. You said you're thinking an hour or so. Charge them for an hour or so.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

what you do is:

Pass.

too little experience.
Find someone who wants to bid it and offer to sub for him.
After a few years you will get the hang of it and pretty much know the answers to your questions.

then you can bust out on your own when the next opportunity arrives.

Going into larger snow removal operations with no preparations or know how can really sink a business quick.


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

It’s a hoa looking for a seasonal rate.. how would I do that hourly?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

How many snowfalls do you think you'll get, what is the average for your area? What are your costs per hour to operate, + what percentage of profit do you what to make per hour. How confident are you in the numbers you have? Come up with a percentage...this is a flub factor..
Math it...


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Setty said:


> It's a hoa looking for a seasonal rate.. how would I do that hourly?


IF they are asking for a seasonal rate they dont want an hourly rate.

If you sub for someone else doing it, typically they will pay you hourly, similar to an employee but give you a 1099.


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

tpendagast said:


> IF they are asking for a seasonal rate they dont want an hourly rate.
> 
> If you sub for someone else doing it, typically they will pay you hourly, similar to an employee but give you a 1099.


I know this already I've done it for awhile sir


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Setty said:


> I know this already I've done it for awhile sir


Then why ask the question?

You are certainly not asking veteran/experienced questions.
You got snooty with Mark earlier and now getting snooty when your questions are getting answered.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

tpendagast said:


> Then why ask the question?
> 
> You are certainly not asking veteran/experienced questions.
> You got snooty with Mark earlier and now getting snooty when your questions are getting answered.


He wants someone to give him a fish instead of being taught how to fish.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> He wants someone to give him a fish instead of being taught how to fish.


oh! ok...
So charge $30 an hour and it should take about 2 hours!
Done!


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Setty said:


> I've done it for awhile sir


Done what eggzaky?


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

tpendagast said:


> Then why ask the question?
> 
> You are certainly not asking veteran/experienced questions.
> You got snooty with Mark earlier and now getting snooty when your questions are getting answered.


Lmao I'm getting "snooty" because my question is being answered with thousands of more questions and mark deserved it because I can't control when a customer calls for a quote and for you I've clearly stated several times I have subcontracted for 8-10 years AND I AM NOW looking to bid on a subdivisiom and was looking for some help but since everyone's being critical and doing nothing but asking me questions and NOT answering mine I'll be gone ‍♂


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

tpendagast said:


> oh! ok...
> So charge $30 an hour and it should take about 2 hours!
> Done!


 kind of annoying that's somebody created this site for plowers to help others/new plowers yet nobody seems to wanna help... not asking to be thrown a fish I've been fishing just looking for a new bait y'all have literally been nothing but a nusiance lmao


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Setty said:


> Lmao I'm getting "snooty" because my question is being answered with thousands of more questions and mark deserved it because I can't control when a customer calls for a quote and for you I've clearly stated several times I have subcontracted for 8-10 years AND I AM NOW looking to bid on a subdivisiom and was looking for some help but since everyone's being critical and doing nothing but asking me questions and NOT answering mine I'll be gone ‍♂


Look, the answer on how to price seasonals has been asked and answered a few dozen times here on plowsite.

You're in Michigan, there's something wrong with a subdivision asking in the middle of November for a quote. Maybe their previous contractor quit or maybe they're a PITA customer. Either way you should know why going into it.

Since you've subbed for that long, presumably in the same location, and you know your hourly rate and know how long it will take you to plow it, you have all the information you need to create a seasonal or per push price. But it doesn't do you any good to just be given a number (fish) because then you will be back for the next request asking the same thing. If you learn how to do it yourself (learning how to fish) everyone wins.

I wasn't being snooty, I just wasnt't going to answer your question because you obviously have put zero effort into trying to figure it out yourself because you HAVE all the information you need. And doing a quick search on plowsite will even tell you how to put that info together.

You need to understand that there are dozens of newbies that sign up asking the same thing you do. It isn't that we are unwilling to help, it's that you need to put some effort into it yourself. Most\all of us have worked hard to get to where we are, many before there was a plowsite so we had to figure it out on our own. So having someone type out their first post and wanting to be provided everything you need, this late in the game rubs some of us the wrong way. Your attitude following those comments doesn't help.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Setty said:


> new plowers


By your own words, you are not a new plower. All the information is in front of you, but you won't put the effort into figuring it out.


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## Bighammer (Aug 20, 2003)

Setty said:


> It's a hoa looking for a seasonal rate.. how would I do that hourly?


First, jump in and lose you ass for a season. Then maybe you'll lose the attitude and have some respect for people who have been doing it for a while.


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## Bighammer (Aug 20, 2003)

There are way too many variables in you question. 

I know a couple different subs with similar number of homes and road lengths, but they are WAY different as far as plowing. Flat, hills, space to put snow, exposure, (drifting) and what kind of people live there, all make a big difference.


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## the Suburbanite (Jan 27, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Look, the answer on how to price seasonals has been asked and answered a few dozen times here on plowsite.
> 
> You're in Michigan, there's something wrong with a subdivision asking in the middle of November for a quote. Maybe their previous contractor quit or maybe they're a PITA customer. Either way you should know why going into it.
> 
> ...


This is probably one of the most comprehensive posts I have seen you make in the 3+ years I've been here. This could be a sticky and it would make things so much easier on the new people.

PS needs a fish emoji. }-<^)D>


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Bighammer said:


> There are way too many variables in you question.
> 
> I know a couple different subs with similar number of homes and road lengths, but they are WAY different as far as plowing. Flat, hills, space to put snow, exposure, (drifting) and what kind of people live there, all make a big difference.


None of that matters if you don't know what to charge for "about an hour" worth of work.


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## Bighammer (Aug 20, 2003)

Problem with a seasonal rate is that they feel they have paid you to make it perfect for the season. Make damn sure you have trigger points spelled out for your obligations.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Figure out your seasonal averages. If you have plowed as long as you say. Go back thru your old invoices say seven years back and average it out. As far as $, I get $135.00 an hour for township roads with a pickup, but I am in Jersey. Prices there and here can vary.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Setty said:


> .....and doing nothing but asking me questions and NOT answering mine I'll be gone ‍♂


Really? And 10 minutes later you post again insulting everyone here as a nuisance to you.

You just proved to all of us your word is no good, and you have an extremely poor attitude. Good luck with your entitlement issues.


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## sota (Jan 31, 2011)

Gee... for a site dedicated to plowing, you guys sure do hate snowflakes. 

(yes, that was sarcasm, and humor, for those who can't tell.)

eta: also to the OP... spelling and punctuation; they can be useful.


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## Setty (Nov 15, 2018)

Mr.Markus said:


> None of that matters if you don't know what to charge for "about an hour" worth of work.


Because charging an hours worth of work would be a hourly charge


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Setty said:


> Because charging an hours worth of work would be a hourly charge





Mr.Markus said:


> How many snowfalls do you think you'll get, what is the average for your area? What are your costs per hour to operate, + what percentage of profit do you what to make per hour. How confident are you in the numbers you have? Come up with a percentage...this is a flub factor..
> Math it...


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Setty said:


> Because charging an hours worth of work would be a hourly charge


What else are you selling? Other than salt..
Nothing, nada, zip, 0

You're selling time, that's what we do, we sell the client our time.


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> He wants someone to give him a fish instead of being taught how to fish.


It really baffles me how people ask for help with no info and get frustrated when people are unsure if you've even been doing this. He had a good point, start in late summer early fall. You should have took that as constructive criticism not call the guy out smh. I think I understand why the veterans on here can be brutal at times with the **** they have seen over umpteen years


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Setty said:


> Because charging an hours worth of work would be a hourly charge


Is it???


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Question did the vendor give you a scope of work or is it by guess and by golly?


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

There are different kinds of subs 
Just like there are different kinds of employees 

There’s the kind that doesn’t care to track how long something takes them or even care how long it should take 
They don’t look for efficiencies or do thing better next time 
Why should it matter? They get paid by the hour!
They don’t grow, they don’t improve, they just exist.
There’s 10 years of experience and 1 year of experience repeated 10 times.
One is valuable the other is next to worthless.

Large companies use these types of employees/subs because they show up and they need numbers, the dependability is intoxicating so they continue to be employed by a company that has (in all reality) over extended themselves. 

Eventually said company comes to realize they’re just treading water and chooses to cut loose the dead weight (dropping the sub/employee and the non profitable work they e been keeping warm)
Suddenly there’s an “opportunity” for this bench warmer to play in the big leagues and they think they know it all because they’ve run a ZTR or a fish stick for ten years.... all they need to know is .... everything.

Simply because they haven’t been paying attention for ten years 
Yknow, because they were getting paid hourly.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Setty said:


> Because charging an hours worth of work would be a hourly charge


 No it isn't. Nobody implies that you tell the client your hourly rate. That # is only one part of your calculation to come up with a price. Its the most basic math. time to plow x # of events + consumables/salt. Your hourly rate is based on a myriad of items (rent,ins,equip maintenance etc). Plus don't forget profit, add a % (ex 30% ) on top or you'll be stuck in the situation these other guys are describing. Oh and if the HOA laws are similar to condo laws here in Ct you can access them as they have to file as a non profit. I won't touch condos anymore but in the past was able to find the plow #'s searching the internet. Regions are so different, I base my bids at 200+ an hour and I can tell you I'm far from making a killing in my area. I'm ready to bail even at those #'s . Might want to spend down time studying business, maybe adult education courses or online. Then you'll be fishing like Mark mentioned, not just being handed a fish because you're inexperienced, unsure, nervous, or at this point ,out of your league/comfort zone. Nothing wrong with being a noobie ,but that should be a short temporary situation.


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