# Compact Wheel Loaders



## Greenmtboy (Jan 22, 2011)

A couple questions for you guys that have used them and maybe some of you that have used both compact loaders and skid steers. I'll get to them in a bit. 
What I'm looking to do here is to is to gain visibility, have the ability to turn with a blade full of snow and increase productivity.
I used my Cat 262C w/HLA 8'-13' SnowWing for comparison when I was doing my research. Obviously you can't do a direct comparison with a skid and loader but its a starting point. We who use or have used skids for snow removal know how agile they are and that makes them great for tight area's and the ability to spin around on a dime and head back the other direction all while having a respectable HP to weight ratio and speed. So, all that was important to me while doing my comparison (within reason). After comparing brands that are near by, Cat, Deere, Case and Volvo, I think I have it narrowed down to the JD 324J. It has the tightest turning radius in its class (12' 5"(out of the ones I compared) decent HP (73), heavy enough to keep it planted (13,404 lbs), good road speed (18.6 mph) and a respectable bucket hinge pin height (127"). Here are my questions to start. Will the JD 324J be more productive (that's a tough one to answer I know)? In a straight line push, will I miss the 9 hp less the loader has vs my skid (82 hp)? The loader being heavier, longer and that it articulates and has rear steering would you say it could handle a larger wing plow? 

Here is a spreadsheet I put together while I was doing my comparison.


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## r.renterprises (May 28, 2013)

I used to use a bobcat s250 2 speed 73 hp machine with a homade 10' push. Bought a jd 244j 2 years ago i got a 10' push with a rubber edge on it. Not my first choice but i had it. The 59 hp loader uses half the fuel pushes twice the snow. I have sno tires on both machines. Visability is amazing and considering my 65 year old dad runs it he was ever so happy to get out of the skid. Also we cut our plowing time almost in half with this machine compared to the skid. I know the loader could easily handle a 12' push.


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

Greenmtboy;1961877 said:


> A couple questions for you guys that have used them and maybe some of you that have used both compact loaders and skid steers. I'll get to them in a bit.
> What I'm looking to do here is to is to gain visibility, have the ability to turn with a blade full of snow and increase productivity.
> I used my Cat 262C w/HLA 8'-13' SnowWing for comparison when I was doing my research. Obviously you can't do a direct comparison with a skid and loader but its a starting point. We who use or have used skids for snow removal know how agile they are and that makes them great for tight area's and the ability to spin around on a dime and head back the other direction all while having a respectable HP to weight ratio and speed. So, all that was important to me while doing my comparison (within reason). After comparing brands that are near by, Cat, Deere, Case and Volvo, I think I have it narrowed down to the JD 324J. It has the tightest turning radius in its class (12' 5"(out of the ones I compared) decent HP (73), heavy enough to keep it planted (13,404 lbs), good road speed (18.6 mph) and a respectable bucket hinge pin height (127"). Here are my questions to start. Will the JD 324J be more productive (that's a tough one to answer I know)? In a straight line push, will I miss the 9 hp less the loader has vs my skid (82 hp)? The loader being heavier, longer and that it articulates and has rear steering would you say it could handle a larger wing plow?
> 
> Here is a spreadsheet I put together while I was doing my comparison.


I have a 2011 John Deere 244j, my lots are small this years so no pusher, we have used ALOT just stacking and relocating snow on site. With fairness to the Cat 906H, it does have an available travel gear option, which has a top speed of 21.5 mph or so, 244j on level ground, I have reached 20-22 mph, with that's said, I had trouble in my area finding a used cat with that feature, so the Deere it was! Also the "J" series is no longer , has been replaced by "K'' series.


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

I've seen personally the difference between a 262c 2spd vs 906h, same size box the loader pushes more snow night and day. Plus stacks mountains compared to the 262. Granted not quite as nimble but that's really the only downside and why there's different machines at different sites. I ran fuel to both operators near the end of our 20" event a few weeks back and the guy in the 262 couldn't wait to get out whereas the one in the 906 looked more comfortable than me lol


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

If you plan on cutting your time in half with a compact wheel loader your only kidding yourself, my s650 with a 10' live edge is only 15-20% slower then my 906h with a 9-15 wing plow, the skid was half the price, to be honest the skid is by far the best bang for the buck when you add snow tires...


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Triple L;1962290 said:


> If you plan on cutting your time in half with a compact wheel loader your only kidding yourself, my s650 with a 10' live edge is only 15-20% slower then my 906h with a 9-15 wing plow, the skid was half the price, to be honest the skid is by far the best bang for the buck when you add snow tires...


Although we currently dont have a compact wheel loader in our fleet, I was going to mention the cost factor is significant.....along with sheer weight of the machines being compared. So this is not an apples to apples comparison imo.

Comparing a S850 Bobcat to a 906 Cat (both w/ snow tires) would be more appropriate, maybe.?.......and IIRC, someone here on PS has done this & gave their feedback as to performance.

I wont argue a compact wheel loader is more comfortable.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

The loader is absolutely hands down the most comfortable and easiest to operate, but cost-effective is hand to justify, I just bought a 110hp kubota tractor the other week because again, I simply couldn't justify another 90k loader... when a 55k tractor can plow the same amount of snow... for me I have one of each now and when you start looking at your return on investment it becomes interesting


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## Greenmtboy (Jan 22, 2011)

r.renterprises;1962234 said:


> I used to use a bobcat s250 2 speed 73 hp machine with a homade 10' push. Bought a jd 244j 2 years ago i got a 10' push with a rubber edge on it. Not my first choice but i had it. The 59 hp loader uses half the fuel pushes twice the snow. I have sno tires on both machines. Visability is amazing and considering my 65 year old dad runs it he was ever so happy to get out of the skid. Also we cut our plowing time almost in half with this machine compared to the skid. I know the loader could easily handle a 12' push.


Thank you for your input.



512high;1962273 said:


> I have a 2011 John Deere 244j, my lots are small this years so no pusher, we have used ALOT just stacking and relocating snow on site. With fairness to the Cat 906H, it does have an available travel gear option, which has a top speed of 21.5 mph or so, 244j on level ground, I have reached 20-22 mph, with that's said, I had trouble in my area finding a used cat with that feature, so the Deere it was! Also the "J" series is no longer , has been replaced by "K'' series.


I did consider a 906H or 907H. I like the fact you can get high flow along with the work tool harness. But I really liked the turning radius of the Deere over 2' tighter. I will buy used when it comes time, I'll be patient and wait for the right deal. 
Thanks



WilliamOak;1962287 said:


> I've seen personally the difference between a 262c 2spd vs 906h, same size box the loader pushes more snow night and day. Plus stacks mountains compared to the 262. Granted not quite as nimble but that's really the only downside and why there's different machines at different sites. I ran fuel to both operators near the end of our 20" event a few weeks back and the guy in the 262 couldn't wait to get out whereas the one in the 906 looked more comfortable than me lol


I might have to reconsider Cat, but the turning radius is bugging me. It takes over 2' more area, maybe it would be such a big deal but it sounds like a lot in tight spots.
Thanks



Triple L;1962290 said:


> If you plan on cutting your time in half with a compact wheel loader your only kidding yourself, my s650 with a 10' live edge is only 15-20% slower then my 906h with a 9-15 wing plow, the skid was half the price, to be honest the skid is by far the best bang for the buck when you add snow tires...


No, not thinking I'm going to cut my time in half, trying to be a little more versatile. It would be nice to have the added weight, wheel base to help windrowing in the bigger lots and still be able to do the smaller ones without it being a pain.
Thanks


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## Greenmtboy (Jan 22, 2011)

snocrete;1962319 said:


> Although we currently dont have a compact wheel loader in our fleet, I was going to mention the cost factor is significant.....along with sheer weight of the machines being compared. So this is not an apples to apples comparison imo.
> 
> Comparing a S850 Bobcat to a 906 Cat (both w/ snow tires) would be more appropriate, maybe.?.......and IIRC, someone here on PS has done this & gave their feedback as to performance.
> 
> I wont argue a compact wheel loader is more comfortable.


I would agree, you can't do a apples to apples comparison.



Triple L;1962358 said:


> The loader is absolutely hands down the most comfortable and easiest to operate, but cost-effective is hand to justify, I just bought a 110hp kubota tractor the other week because again, I simply couldn't justify another 90k loader... when a 55k tractor can plow the same amount of snow... for me I have one of each now and when you start looking at your return on investment it becomes interesting


I agree, and I wouldn't dish out 90K, that would be ridiculous.


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## r.renterprises (May 28, 2013)

I was not able to replace my skid completely with the loader i have some loading docks that are impossible to get the loader in to. We are looking to pick up a wacker loader to do cleanup and sidewalks. We are a 2 man operation so we need to boogie when it snows.


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

Greenmtboy;1961877 said:


> A couple questions for you guys that have used them and maybe some of you that have used both compact loaders and skid steers. I'll get to them in a bit.
> What I'm looking to do here is to is to gain visibility, have the ability to turn with a blade full of snow and increase productivity.
> I used my Cat 262C w/HLA 8'-13' SnowWing for comparison when I was doing my research. Obviously you can't do a direct comparison with a skid and loader but its a starting point. We who use or have used skids for snow removal know how agile they are and that makes them great for tight area's and the ability to spin around on a dime and head back the other direction all while having a respectable HP to weight ratio and speed. So, all that was important to me while doing my comparison (within reason). After comparing brands that are near by, Cat, Deere, Case and Volvo, I think I have it narrowed down to the JD 324J. It has the tightest turning radius in its class (12' 5"(out of the ones I compared) decent HP (73), heavy enough to keep it planted (13,404 lbs), good road speed (18.6 mph) and a respectable bucket hinge pin height (127"). Here are my questions to start. Will the JD 324J be more productive (that's a tough one to answer I know)? In a straight line push, will I miss the 9 hp less the loader has vs my skid (82 hp)? The loader being heavier, longer and that it articulates and has rear steering would you say it could handle a larger wing plow?
> 
> Here is a spreadsheet I put together while I was doing my comparison.


*** Just an fyi!!!! I noticed the other day on the forums page(equipment for sale) there is a person/handle Patrick? selling a 08/09 cat906h with high speed option , for $50k, about 2,000 hrs, original owner, there are some pics...seems clean, and i think thats a good price, may cost $a few grand to get to vermont? not sure, anyways, im sure "triple" can advise more on a 906h, also i think his friend has a 244j, both great machines,


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

Triple L;1962290 said:


> If you plan on cutting your time in half with a compact wheel loader your only kidding yourself, my s650 with a 10' live edge is only 15-20% slower then my 906h with a 9-15 wing plow, the skid was half the price, to be honest the skid is by far the best bang for the buck when you add snow tires...





Triple L;1962358 said:


> The loader is absolutely hands down the most comfortable and easiest to operate, but cost-effective is hand to justify, I just bought a 110hp kubota tractor the other week because again, I simply couldn't justify another 90k loader... when a 55k tractor can plow the same amount of snow... for me I have one of each now and when you start looking at your return on investment it becomes interesting


I would agree on the time thing. While I haven't owned a compact wheel loader, I have extensively demoed and used them quite a few hours doing snow removal a couple of years ago. It would all depend on your sites, but I would say 15% is a good rule of thumb, but if you are on a tight site, the skid will be *more* productive (with a similar plow being used).

Comfort and visibility are no question better in the wheel loader. However, some of that can be mitigated with an air ride seat and ride control on a skid.

For us, it came down to a wheel loader costing almost 2X a larger very well equipped skid steer. That, and the wheel loader doesn't replace a skid, whereas a skid can do just about anything a wheel loader can.

As Triple said, a tractor with a blade basically replaces a wheel loader at much less cost, and you still could put something like a blower on the back - best of both worlds.

Don't get me wrong, if you have the use for a specialized machine like the wheel loader and it fits well into your operation, they are hard to beat.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

We have a 244J with LD12 Arcitc on a site that had a skid (L175 NH) with 10 foot Arctic and a truck with 8' straight blade and wings. The 244 has replaced both and gets done about 10 percent faster than both those combined did before. It's a Wal Mart site.

Hands down the loader for visibility, stacking, and ease of pushing larger snow loads. If it were a smaller or tight site, the skids would rule the roost.

We could never replace all of our skids with mini loaders, but on the right properties they're awesome.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

I’ve been contemplating this decision for over a year. Case 321F or a 100 hp kubota tractor. Right now I only have skids, and I’m pushing the envelope in how many accounts they can handle. I would think you buy a loader first for stacking? My 272d stacks pretty good, I think the tractor is smarter for mixed big/small lots. But I’m not sure if I should be purchasing a loader first for stacking ability.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Just a little real world feedback We are just ending our first season with a jd 233j with a hla snow wing. 
It is on a 6 acre site that is very high high maintenance. it needed a case 580m backhoe with a 12' box plow and a bobcat s185 with a boss bx10. Sometimes that was overkill but it a good job and they want service. The JD233 does the entire site solo...and that even gives the guy time to jump off and get on an atv and whip off 1300' of sidewalks every two hours. 
When we had lots of snow and storage areas maxed, we dropped the snowwing and put on the bucket. Did a great job loading triaxles to haul snow. 4 minutes start to finish loading a tri. Productive.
I dont think the 233j is super hd or really well built, but it is a very compact and capable machine. For the kind of work we do it is amazing to have at the yard. We have forks for it and for moving totes of brine, skids of ice melter or even skids of wet sod etc...it is an amazing machine. We likely wont use it on job sites but will use it a LOT in the yard making things easier, and safer. Very happy with having it.

Now i will be looking at getting rid of my other backhoe and likely look for a loader that is just a bit bigger. Likely 100hp and maybe a 12-14' box plow or snowwing. Where i live the money into the mp or sectional just doesnt seem worth the spend unless i find a great used unit. The 233 is great but having an extra 20+ horse would be a huge benefit if mother nature really brought her biatch sister for a visit. Buy good equip at the right price and its not that bad.


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