# Help!! New tractor won't push snow!



## GEM (Apr 8, 2005)

I just purchased a new Kubota M7040 (70 horsepower) 4 wheel drive tractor and had it fitted with an 1875 SnowEx spreader and a 10 foot push box. Yesterday was first time to try it out. Nothing but problems. Wheels just spin. No traction and unable to steer. The tires are the zigzag mud and snow, not the turf style and the rears are loaded with 700 pounds of gel each. Dealer suggested chains. No way! The lots I do won't allow chains for fear of damage to the pavement. Dealer also said to tip the box back a bit, but that doesn't seem right. Isn't a push box designed to run flat on the shoes or skis. It has a rubber cutting edge also. The push box is attached via a kubota loader with quick release.

Thanks for any help!


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## DBL (Aug 27, 2005)

does it spin just driving or when you are plowing...maby that 10' is too big if that is the case...are you in 4x4 and are you putting too much pressure down adn lifting the front tires up and giving it no traction and a last resort get different tires


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## Daner (Jan 8, 2006)

GEM;353374 said:


> I just purchased a new Kubota M7040 (70 horsepower) 4 wheel drive tractor and had it fitted with an 1875 SnowEx spreader and a 10 foot push box. Yesterday was first time to try it out. Nothing but problems. Wheels just spin. No traction and unable to steer. The tires are the zigzag mud and snow, not the turf style and the rears are loaded with 700 pounds of gel each. Dealer suggested chains. No way! The lots I do won't allow chains for fear of damage to the pavement. Dealer also said to tip the box back a bit, but that doesn't seem right. Isn't a push box designed to run flat on the shoes or skis. It has a rubber cutting edge also. The push box is attached via a kubota loader with quick release.
> 
> Thanks for any help!


Gem: A picture would help us help you...anyway...70hp4x4...wont push??...ok I see you have a 10 footer on there...are you on ice...and have a full load in that thing???If thats the case try not to load your box up so much...If that snow was wet and you had a full load in there ...you have a lot of weight to push.
I would have to say try to take 1/2 at a time 
Best of luck.


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## Midwest BuildIt Inc (Nov 14, 2004)

I just checked the stats, that machine weighs less than 5000 lbs. seems light to be tryin to push a 10' box.......thats like pushing a 10' box with a medium size skidloader.


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## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

I would have to agree. That machine is to light for that application. Our JCB backhoe weight was about 12000 and it had a tough time with a 12' box even in light snow.


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## SD-Dave (Dec 13, 2005)

That tractor is way too small for a 10' snow pusher...I own a protech 10' pusher that I run on a Deere 244J loader. It works fine but it is also a 12K-lb machine...its not just horsepower but gearing and weight. Manufacturers are putting some damn powerful motors in small frame compact tractors...great for running big mowers and other implements but not sufficient for moving big weight. A 10' pusher can carry 10yrds of snow...far too much for a 5K-LB tractor to move regards less of HP.


I would suggest getting a smaller pusher for that size tractor...

good luck


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## charlefoxtrtot (Oct 26, 2003)

I use a 10' box on a gehl 7800 (110hp) that weighs about 9500lbs. What about a counter weight on the front end?


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

I have a 10ft pusher blade on a JD2750 (110 hp) four wheel drive tractor. Weight of tractor 12,000 lbs plus. On slick pavement it strugles to move the snow. Also had the same blade on a Case 580 4wd backhoe and it didnt do much better than the JD. I bought a Cat 920 loader ( 18,000 lbs) this winter to replace the JD for next season. Im putting chains on the rear of the Cat.No more tire spinning. 
Bottom line is you need to chain that little Kubota and it will not hurt the pavement. Pavement is real hard in winter, not soft like in summer heat.


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## snowinjoe (Nov 23, 2004)

Why not use a blade with side boards like this http://www.horstwelding.com/snow_items.php?id=93. Its so much quicker to windrow the snow, isn't it? Then put the sides down and scoop it. I drove a kubota L5030 with a 8ft plow on it and was forever adjusting the tilt. Rolling the box back would help.


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## PowerWagon (Aug 31, 2006)

You should call the tire shop ask them about have all 4 tires fulled to add weight on tractor.

You should add more weight in front of tractor too,

I have a 4020 loader, it could do a push box.
Yeah the 4020 has a cab on it with heat.


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## Lawnscape89 (Nov 28, 2005)

snowinjoe;353456 said:


> Why not use a blade with side boards like this http://www.horstwelding.com/snow_items.php?id=93. Its so much quicker to windrow the snow, isn't it? Then put the sides down and scoop it. I drove a kubota L5030 with a 8ft plow on it and was forever adjusting the tilt. Rolling the box back would help.


I don't think that's going to help him. You would be replacing a 525 lb. plow with a 1650 lb. plow. He won't be able to push anything, then. 

However, the Avalanche website indicates that a minimum 40HP is needed. They may want to be a little more detailed in what size machine is necessary.

You may want to check their website for the compact tractors http://www.ledexindustries.com/products_compact_tractor.php and there is a place there to "Ask the Experts".  They may be able to assist you.

Good luck.


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Same response here as the other guys.

Too big of a box.

The guys around here running M7040, M9000's are only running 8' blades on them.

I've got a 4310 and the dealer won't sell me anything bigger than a 7' blade for it, says that's all the tractor will handle.


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## itsgottobegreen (Mar 31, 2004)

I would suggest getting a front and rear weight kit for it. Add another 2000 lbs would really help out. Keep the machine in float when pushing the box to keep all the wheels on the ground.


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## CAG80 (Nov 7, 2006)

damn who would have thought 70 hp and only 5k.. my b21 (21hp) is about 4-5k and i have cleared my shop paking lot out ( just to run it a little in the off season) which is not small and have had no problems with traction..


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## StratfordPusher (Dec 20, 2006)

*M9000*

M9000 can handle a 10' Box plow with dry or wet snow, no slipping, no problems. Have had it plently full and it works great.

Last year I ran a L4200 with a loader and 8' box and it worked ok as well.

Not sure what you traction problem is, sure you have it 4 wheel drive ?? lol
Ensure your box plow just makes contact with the surface, too much down pressure will cause loss of traction.


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## Snow Picasso (Dec 15, 2004)

SD-Dave;353401 said:


> That tractor is way too small for a 10' snow pusher...I own a protech 10' pusher that I run on a Deere 244J loader. It works fine but it is also a 12K-lb machine...its not just horsepower but gearing and weight. Manufacturers are putting some damn powerful motors in small frame compact tractors...great for running big mowers and other implements but not sufficient for moving big weight. A 10' pusher can carry 10yrds of snow...far too much for a 5K-LB tractor to move regards less of HP.
> 
> I would suggest getting a smaller pusher for that size tractor...
> 
> good luck


He's right! Too much snow for a light machine. What you might think of doing...is putting a 10' blade on the machine instead of a box. You'll be able to angle the snow to the side! Less resistance!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Did the dealer recommend this size pusher? 

I'm a little surprised that it won't, but weight will make a huge difference. Like has been said, weight and HP are needed. Seriously, did you have it 4WD? If so, were at least 2 wheels spinning when you were trying to push?

Also, the snow we just had was extremely heavy and with the sleet\freezing rain underneath, traction wasn't great unless you had salt down before it started snowing. That was the only thing that saved us from having more problems. 

Might have to check into a blade for it. I would recommend a Blizzard 8611 tractor model.


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## ppandr (Dec 16, 2004)

I have a TN55 with ag tires, 6500lbs incuding loader, 52 hp and pushes excellent with a 10' FFC pusher. 
Do the following before selling that blade......
1. Add a minimun of 1500lbs counterweight to the 3pt arms Those arms should be rated for 3000lbs plus. I bought a cheap aftermarket carrier and poured a solid concrete block around it.
2. Feather the throttle when pushing, spining the tires is just killing your tread life. 70hp is worthless if it does not hook up.
3. Keep in mind that you can only push in straight lines, level or downhill with a half full blade.
4. As the snow builds up in the blade slightly lift up the blade, not off the ground...just enough to take the slack out of the arms and pins. This will increase front tire pressure on the ground. This will take a while to get used to, but once you get it you will see a big difference. The skids are there to ride on but any weight transfered to them will rob needed friction to push with.
5. Depending on the type of edge, make sure it is properly adjusted for height.


Good luck


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## GEM (Apr 8, 2005)

*Help! New tractor won't push......follow-up*

Thanks for the replies and info. Sorry no photos, the unit is at the dealer right now trying to get this figured out. Yes it was in 4wd, the fronts were spinning. I was running the box in float position. Originally the dealer recommended a 14 ft. box but I need to trailer this once in a while so I went with a 10 footer. Dealer said the tractor would handle it no problem


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

OK, I'm sure somebody won't like this, but I have never been able to make my JCB work in the float mode. Everytime I tried as soon as I started pushing the front wheels came off the ground. I am probably just slow (and sarcastic) but I could never make it work.

I gave up and just manually adjust the blade for varying pavement heights, just like dozer operators. 

Were your front tires coming off the ground when you were pushing?

PS Never believe a salesman.


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## Midwest BuildIt Inc (Nov 14, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;353840 said:


> OK, I'm sure somebody won't like this, but I have never been able to make my JCB work in the float mode. Everytime I tried as soon as I started pushing the front wheels came off the ground. I am probably just slow (and sarcastic) but I could never make it work.
> 
> I gave up and just manually adjust the blade for varying pavement heights, just like dozer operators.
> 
> ...


I understand, when i was running a ford loader we had a 16' push box on it. when i tied to use it in float mode it would lift the front tires off the ground as soon as i started pushing...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BNC SERVICES;353846 said:


> I understand, when i was running a ford loader we had a 16' push box on it. when i tied to use it in float mode it would lift the front tires off the ground as soon as i started pushing...


Thanks, it isn't just me!


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

BNC SERVICES;353846 said:


> I understand, when i was running a ford loader we had a 16' push box on it. when i tied to use it in float mode it would lift the front tires off the ground as soon as i started pushing...


If the float control is working it wont lift the front at all.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mark Witcher;353863 said:


> If the float control is working it wont lift the front at all.


Could you elaborate?

When I first had this problem, I asked the excavator that subs for me and uses his loader with a ProTech if he had this problem and he said yes. I followed his advice and just do as I posted above.


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## Midwest BuildIt Inc (Nov 14, 2004)

The only time i have ever been able to use float with a push box and it actually worked was with skid steer's, even then you still had to lift it up a little some times to get better traction. the ford loader i was running was an A66 not a light machine.


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;353840 said:


> OK, I'm sure somebody won't like this, but I have never been able to make my JCB work in the float mode. Everytime I tried as soon as I started pushing the front wheels came off the ground. I am probably just slow (and sarcastic) but I could never make it work.
> 
> I gave up and just manually adjust the blade for varying pavement heights, just like dozer operators.
> 
> ...


Mark -

You do know that the Kubota loader, float is when you push (almost shove) the controller all the way forward??


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## Midwest BuildIt Inc (Nov 14, 2004)

LwnmwrMan22;354008 said:


> Mark -
> 
> You do know that the Kubota loader, float is when you push (almost shove) the controller all the way forward??


I dont think he was saying he didnt know how to work the float mode, just that it didnt work with his push box and lifted the front of the machine up.


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

BNC SERVICES;354013 said:


> I dont think he was saying he didnt know how to work the float mode, just that it didnt work with his push box and lifted the front of the machine up.


Yeah..... but isn't that what float does?? Just releases the pressure on the hydraulics, thereby just letting the box hit the ground, without pushing down on it / pushing the front end up??


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## jbrow1 (Mar 9, 2004)

Not much of a heavy equipment guy but here's my thoughts of the float and pushing...
When not in float the weight of the attachment keeps the front end heavy. And the more snow you get in the blade/box is almost like digging and applying more weight holding the front down.

When in float you remove the weight of the attachment from the front of the tractor, and also leave it open to act as a pivot point. The weight of any vehicle when you accelerate naturally moves to the rear, unless you had a solid tire and no suspension. And the weight of the snow would act like a force pushing back against the tractor. When you push a cereal box between your hands it folds in the middle. So the force of the rear wheels driving against the force of the snow pushing back against the tractor would let the front want to lift since it's not locked in by hydralics. And the more snow accumlating in the box would be like more force pushing back against the tractor increasing the front lifting.

In a big machine like a loader it probably wouldn't be a problem. But I can see how it would in a lighter machine.

Just my thoughts, make any sense?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Yes, I did. Same as my JCB and I could not figure it out.

I understand it the same way as jbrow.


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## Oshkosh (Sep 11, 2005)

*I had a skid steer....*



Mark Oomkes;354044 said:


> Yes, I did. Same as my JCB and I could not figure it out.


 I had a skid steer that was a pain to get into float...Had to jamb it in real fast and then would float ,otherwise lots of down pressure...


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## Rowski (Oct 24, 2005)

My understanding and expereince with tractors is that due to loader design (arms) when in float postion will pick-up the front wheels or at least make them very "light". I have found that float only works really well going backwards direction, I have had some luck using it forwards IF you curl the bucket and let the heel of the bucket contact the ground morte than the cutting edge. 

Also by having the pusher, plow, ect, further away from curl/dump pivots will make the problem worse.

The best way to achieve "float" is to run your pusher or plow with a lift chain and pivot, like a plow setup. This way you don't have to mess around trying to float it. The chain would take up the slack. The down side is that you can't use down pressure to scrape. Around here we let bases build up to save the pavement (what little there is) from snowmobiles, very rural here.

I had planned to make a pusher out of an old 8.5FT Fisher. I was going to make it fit a female quik-ttach (bobcat style) reciever with a pivot and chain trying to keep the whole assembly as close to the pivots on the loader as possible.

Derek


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

It's in float, it just makes the front wheels come off the ground. The downpressure is great, especially because we have a urethane edge on it.


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

Float position on a loader or tractor works the same as a snowplow on your pickup. Blade will follow the ground with NO hydraulic pressure at all. Just the weight of the bucket/loader arms . And if it makes the front wheels come off the ground, the float is NOT working.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

OK, then it doesn't work and never has. Although it will going backwards as stated.


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;354142 said:


> OK, then it doesn't work and never has. Although it will going backwards as stated.


Yeah, that's what I don't understand Mark.

My Kubota, when it's in float, there's no "uplift" on the frontend at all, whether going forward or backwards, so I'm with the other "Mark".

I understand what jbrow meant, but when it's in float, much like a plow, my loader will want to ride up and over rock (never used it for plowing yet), unless I've got a deep angle on the bucket.


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## Midwest BuildIt Inc (Nov 14, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;354142 said:


> OK, then it doesn't work and never has. Although it will going backwards as stated.


Dont worry Mark O, some people read books and others actually experience it..Float position does not work when using a push box.....


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

BNC SERVICES;354213 said:


> Dont worry Mark O, some people read books and others actually experience it..Float position does not work when using a push box.....


I'll be the first to admit it, I've never run a push box.

Why would it be any different than a loader on the front??

Is it the scraper part that keeps pushing it into the surface??

I'm not trying to be a dink or anything, but could someone help me out??

I'd like to know, since I keep threatening to get a larger tractor to put a box on the front, and if it's something that I'm going to experience like what's been said in this thread, I won't.

Like I said before, I would have been under the assumption that since my Kubota loader floated over stuff, that a push box would push just fine.


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## killed300ex (Apr 29, 2004)

jbrow1;354039 said:


> Not much of a heavy equipment guy but here's my thoughts of the float and pushing...
> When not in float the weight of the attachment keeps the front end heavy. And the more snow you get in the blade/box is almost like digging and applying more weight holding the front down.
> 
> When in float you remove the weight of the attachment from the front of the tractor, and also leave it open to act as a pivot point. The weight of any vehicle when you accelerate naturally moves to the rear, unless you had a solid tire and no suspension. And the weight of the snow would act like a force pushing back against the tractor. When you push a cereal box between your hands it folds in the middle. So the force of the rear wheels driving against the force of the snow pushing back against the tractor would let the front want to lift since it's not locked in by hydralics. And the more snow accumlating in the box would be like more force pushing back against the tractor increasing the front lifting.
> ...


I think you figured it out thats why when you manually run the bucket you are actually counteracting this force by lifitng the bucket up slightly. 
Evan


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## oldmankent (Mar 2, 2001)

I think I get why the float position doesn't work. there is too much weight iin the pusher from all the snow or just the pusher itself. The tractor is still driving forward and since the haydraulics are not locked in the front wheels will try to drive over the top of the pusher which makes the wheels lift. Or the rear wheels push the front up. Someone did explain it very well already. It kind of makes sense and doesn't at the same time.


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## Rowski (Oct 24, 2005)

oldmankent;354260 said:


> I think I get why the float position doesn't work. there is too much weight iin the pusher from all the snow or just the pusher itself. The tractor is still driving forward and since the haydraulics are not locked in the front wheels will try to drive over the top of the pusher which makes the wheels lift. Or the rear wheels push the front up. Someone did explain it very well already. It kind of makes sense and doesn't at the same time.


You got it!!


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

So, in a sense, the box IS too big for the tractor then, since the tractor doesn't hold it's position??

If the tractor were bigger, then making the box "float", that's when it would be set up correctly??

I realize that we've somewhat gone off subject from the original poster, but I'd like to figure this out before I took that step.

Is it basically the same thing, that when you're plowing with a truck, drive into a curb, and the truck wants to drive up and over the plow??


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## ppandr (Dec 16, 2004)

A 10' blade on a 70hp machine is OK. Just need to hook it up. Follow my previous post, I've been there.

The float position is worthless....you need to slightly raise the blade when pushing a full box, therefore applying more down pressure to the front tires.

Also, the type of snow plays a factor in how the blade (with rubber edge) works. Wet and/or hard packed snow is not going to clean off nicely. These blades (rubber edge) are best for areas not driven over if you want to have a clean end result. 

I doubt the dealer will solve the problem.....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Just out of curiosity, for those of you explaining how the float system is supposed to work and are telling me\us that our float positions are not working, how many of you have personally used a loader with a larger plow or pusher box?


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## Oshkosh (Sep 11, 2005)

*Question???*

Would a piece of urethane under the shoes help?
I'm just thinking of a new product perhaps???


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## LwnmwrMan22 (Jan 20, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;354417 said:


> Just out of curiosity, for those of you explaining how the float system is supposed to work and are telling me\us that our float positions are not working, how many of you have personally used a loader with a larger plow or pusher box?


Obviously I'm guilty, already admitted it in a previous post. A couple of them in fact. For jumping ahead of things, I apologize.

I guess now that I think about it, after I slept on it, I guess it's no different than if you're running a bucket on your loader, in float, and you hit a decent sized tree root, or a edge of a slab of concrete???

The bucket isn't going to float up and over, it pretty much catches and stops the tractor in its place, spinning???


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## jjtmarineb2 (Dec 17, 2007)

Mark Witcher;354129 said:


> Float position on a loader or tractor works the same as a snowplow on your pickup. Blade will follow the ground with NO hydraulic pressure at all. Just the weight of the bucket/loader arms . And if it makes the front wheels come off the ground, the float is NOT working.


It's the same as if you tried to drive your tractor into a wall/immovable object. Think about it, when the bucket/pusher meets too much resistance ie. too much snow, the rear wheels keep trying to go in a forward motion. With no resistance on the hydraulics, the rear will "walk" forward lifting the front end of the tractor. :salute:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jjtmarineb2;496476 said:


> It's the same as if you tried to drive your tractor into a wall/immovable object. Think about it, when the bucket/pusher meets too much resistance ie. too much snow, the rear wheels keep trying to go in a forward motion. With no resistance on the hydraulics, the rear will "walk" forward lifting the front end of the tractor. :salute:


Yes, and it's also a direct linkage via the loader arms vs a hydraulic cylinder allowing the float.


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## TL697 (Jan 19, 2008)

Float mode isn't the best...

It is great for backdragging dirt, but the geometry and applied force will not work going forward... The rear tires are pushing and there is almost no weight on the front wheels due to the fact that the loader pivot is elevated above and between the front wheels and rear wheels...

Try this:

On dirt, put your boom in float mode and go forward... If the bucket catches anything at all, it will lift the front wheels right off the ground...

I would do as others have said:

float the blade and then take up the slack in the lift boom. Don't lift the pusher off the ground, but take the weight off it, and it will be transferred to the front wheels...

It's all physics...


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## streetfrog (Dec 9, 2007)

Ok Here goes. Your customer doesnt want chains right? Well the tires you have have at least 1" thick lugs. STUD THEM..
Goto your local snowmobile shop or cycle shop. 
Get the studs they use on dirt bike tires for ice racing. 
screw the things into the lugs. Now you have studded tires for reasonable money and about 1-2 hours of your time. Also you now have instant traction even on ice.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

TL697;496520 said:


> Float mode isn't the best...
> 
> It is great for backdragging dirt, but the geometry and applied force will not work going forward... The rear tires are pushing and there is almost no weight on the front wheels due to the fact that the loader pivot is elevated above and between the front wheels and rear wheels...
> 
> ...


Nope, the float isn't working correctly.  :waving:


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

Some of you guys don't know how to add. The tractor weighs 5000lbs, the loader probably weighs 1000lbs, the box weighs (I dunno? ) another 1000 (?) and he loaded the tires with gel, that's another 1400lbs plus he's got a spreader on back, figure filled full of salt is another 1000lbs. This tractor sitting weighs a little over 9000lbs.
a 7040 isn't a compact, it's a utiliity tractor and although Kubotas are notriously light, this one weighs plenty.

It should, except in really heavy wet snow, be able to push a 10 foot box. If it gets real wet and heavy you may need to bring it up

it's the float mode. I've got a 8' plow with wings on my TN75 with R4 tires (equivilent tractor, 75hp, cab, etc) and with the plow, float mode just sucks. It works, but you lose most of the front end. I just keep working it with the joy stick to keep it down. Also, the box (or plow) is WAY out in front, a lot further than a bucket is. Even with a bucket float mode will push up your front tires. With the plow, i get going (right off the bottom where the diesel has no grunt) and then put hte blade down so I'm already moving. Seems to work. 

Try doing it manually (without float) and see if that works better, and try getting a slight run at it (2 or 3 feet is all it takes) before dropping the box.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I can see why your having problems pushing. We have 4 JD 7220's and they are 95 hp but they weigh over 12000 lbs. We run 14 ft power angle blades and 12 ft pushers. When your pushing keep lifting up on the loader and the weight will transfer to your wheels. Like Mark we don't run our loaders in float because when you want to turn with a full box, you need to lift the loader.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Witcher;354129 said:


> Float position on a loader or tractor works the same as a snowplow on your pickup. Blade will follow the ground with NO hydraulic pressure at all. Just the weight of the bucket/loader arms . And if it makes the front wheels come off the ground, the float is NOT working.


This is exactly how float works.


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

I have a Deere 4520. I run an 8 ft pusher on it. I had all the same problems this guy is describing. To solve it, I removed the rubber and went with a steel edge. Now I have no problems at all.

peterbilt


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Peterbilt;496731 said:


> I have a Deere 4520. I run an 8 ft pusher on it. I had all the same problems this guy is describing. To solve it, I removed the rubber and went with a steel edge. Now I have no problems at all.
> 
> peterbilt


Do you think rubber has more drag then steel. It's an ok idea but I wouldn't use a pusher with steel without a trip on my farm loader. Your just asking for a problem.


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

How about just asking the dealer to solve the problem or give me my money back. I'm sure the local JD isn't having this problem.


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## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;353840 said:


> OK, I'm sure somebody won't like this, but I have never been able to make my JCB work in the float mode. Everytime I tried as soon as I started pushing the front wheels came off the ground. I am probably just slow (and sarcastic) but I could never make it work.
> 
> I gave up and just manually adjust the blade for varying pavement heights, just like dozer operators.
> 
> ...


I`ve never had luck running a pusher in float unless it has the new autolevel shoes which I`ve yet to try.

With a pusher you are better off to be constantly playing with ité Especially if it`s a chain on push box. It tends to push forward and dig.

If you play with the box as you plow (up and down) you will get better results and be able to travel faster.

We run a 12`and up to a 14`on a 580 super M with no problems. That tractor can handle a 10`no problems. I`ve seen many running around here.


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

JD dave. 

Yes. I feel the rubber causes to much drag. So swicthing 3 of my 4 pushers was the only way to go.

I do wish I had a trip edge on them but, lucky for me I have mostly new lots where I run them, So a nice flat surface is almost always gauranted. And for pushing up. We just try to get square with pile and push up.

Next year I am planning on making my own pushers, All with Indepent Box Float, (I Have a prototype Like this now and its AWESOME!!) All Will have Spring loaded Down Presure. All will Have Trip EDGES. Smaller will have pull backs, 1 will be a 16 ft folding. and the last will just be a basic pusher with all my features.

Peterbilt


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Peterbilt;496810 said:


> JD dave.
> 
> Yes. I feel the rubber causes to much drag. So swicthing 3 of my 4 pushers was the only way to go.
> 
> ...


Good luck with your build. I really dislike rubber edge's for scrapping reasons but I never really thought about what would have less drag, but I tend to agree with you.


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## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

JD Dave;496816 said:


> Good luck with your build. I really dislike rubber edge's for scrapping reasons but I never really thought about what would have less drag, but I tend to agree with you.


have you tried the flip over pushers...

its rubber on one side, trip on the other. I would like to get one of these for scraping on those storms were you salt during the day and just cleanup with plows at night. The rubber edge is nice for cleaning up slush, etc... just not for scraping hard pack.


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## BREAULT69 (Jan 15, 2008)

Find out the weight of the entire unit for sure. A truck stop or grain elevator, or even a rock/sand pit can weigh it if needed. Usually around $7 to have weighed (in these parts). If you're within the HP and weight recommended by the dealer who sold the pusher to you go to them and make them figure it out. I have a 10' plow on a 15k lb. 4x4 loader and if I get a really big bite of heavy snow I will get some tire spin. Suggestions only- tire siping, more weight, take smaller bite, trade down to 8' pusher. Any upforce you can maintain on the pusher and still clean well will tranfer weight to your front axle (basic geometry I think) I usually bump a little up force because I don't run wear shoes and it seems to lower the drag.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

crazymike;496826 said:


> have you tried the flip over pushers...
> 
> its rubber on one side, trip on the other. I would like to get one of these for scraping on those storms were you salt during the day and just cleanup with plows at night. The rubber edge is nice for cleaning up slush, etc... just not for scraping hard pack.


It cost us alot of money to change all our blades to steel trip and I don't see any advantage to rubber except in slush. Rubber to me is just an aggravation and no one will ever convince me other wise. I also have never tried a flip over blade like that and I can't see an advantage for the price. JMO


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## mulcahy mowing (Jan 16, 2006)

Mark Oomkes;353683 said:


> Might have to check into a blade for it. I would recommend a Blizzard 8611 tractor model.


 I agree you can change size for a heavy snow and then make the blade bigger for a light 2-4" snow


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;496851 said:


> Rubber to me is just an aggravation and no one will ever convince me other wise. I also have never tried a flip over blade like that and I can't see an advantage for the price. JMO


Rubber rules, steel sucks.   tymusic

J/K

Wish ProTech would have had the IST technology when I bought mine.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;496983 said:


> Rubber rules, steel sucks.   tymusic
> 
> J/K
> 
> Wish ProTech would have had the IST technology when I bought mine.


I feel as strong about steel as you do about Blizzards. Your wearing me down about the Blizzard though, I think I might have to buy one. If I do I think I'm just going to go to Jerrie and get an Erie special. I'll tell him Mark sent me.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;497000 said:


> I feel as strong about steel as you do about Blizzards. Your wearing me down about the Blizzard though, I think I might have to buy one. If I do I think I'm just going to go to Jerrie and get an Erie special. I'll tell him Mark sent me.


What did you do to change your's over to steel? I've contemplated doing it on one or two of mine, or 'upgrading' to a IST type. Problem is, the dumb things just don't wear out, so I have a hard time justifying selling a perfectly good rubber edged model and getting a steel edge.

I could very easily see the benefits, especially after a couple of the ice storms we had earlier this season. I will be doing something on at least 1 of them--switching or upgrading.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;497019 said:


> What did you do to change your's over to steel? I've contemplated doing it on one or two of mine, or 'upgrading' to a IST type. Problem is, the dumb things just don't wear out, so I have a hard time justifying selling a perfectly good rubber edged model and getting a steel edge.
> 
> I could very easily see the benefits, especially after a couple of the ice storms we had earlier this season. I will be doing something on at least 1 of them--switching or upgrading.


We actually just designed a cutting edge trip in our shop. It worked OK but for the money we had in them it would be better to buy. I looked at a blade with the IST and it looks like that system would be fairly adaptable to a rubber edge. Not sure how much the IST cutting edge would cost but it would be worth looking into. I'm the type of guy that keeps blades forever, as long as they are productive, no sense wasting money on something that works.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;497033 said:


> We actually just designed a cutting edge trip in our shop. It worked OK but for the money we had in them it would be better to buy. I looked at a blade with the IST and it looks like that system would be fairly adaptable to a rubber edge. Not sure how much the IST cutting edge would cost but it would be worth looking into. *I'm the type of guy that keeps blades forever, as long as they are productive, no sense wasting money on something that works.*


You must be Dutch.  I agree completely.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

if you have a dedicated pushing tractor why buy a little tractor when you can buy something like the and have 6x the HP and unlimited amount of weight and 1/2 the $$$ 
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=5263522&guid=EE3955567F8D45689EBA52522540E790


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## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

JD Dave;497000 said:


> I feel as strong about steel as you do about Blizzards. Your wearing me down about the Blizzard though, I think I might have to buy one. If I do I think I'm just going to go to Jerrie and get an Erie special. I'll tell him Mark sent me.


Why buy a blizzard when you can buy the same concept with better technology like the Western or Fisher wideout. IMO, better mounting system and more proven pumps, etc... The best of both worlds.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

crazymike;497276 said:


> Why buy a blizzard when you can buy the same concept with better technology like the Western or Fisher wideout. IMO, better mounting system and more proven pumps, etc... The best of both worlds.


I was just amusing Mark. j/k In all honesty I'm pretty happy with the Boss, we do very little plowing with the pickups, but the Blizzard does interest me. I need to pick up another large contract I already have 2 tractors sitting this winter and another 4 tractor subs that want to work. I hope the prices will be more to my liking after this winter, I'd rather the tractors sit, then work for nothing. It does really bother me to have the machinery and not enough work. This is the first winter this has ever happened.:crying:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

crazymike;497276 said:


> Why buy a blizzard when you can buy the same concept with better technology like the Western or Fisher wideout. IMO, better mounting system and more proven pumps, etc... The best of both worlds.


Trying to bait me? Because most of this post is ignorant. Wideout and XLS have not even been on the market for a full year where the Blizzard has been out for 9 years. The pumps--if they're using the same ones as the new V's--have been out a season and a half where some of the BLizzard pumps have been out for 8 years. Granted, when they switched to Monarchs, they had some gear breakage problems, but the original ones were pretty much flawless.


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## Runner (Jul 21, 2000)

There is no doubt that field proven is always the best bet! 
But anyway, I say we all go over to GEM's place (original poster), get his tractor and go out and push some stuff with it, raising a little tension on the arms to apply some down pressure on the front wheels, and watch the smile on his face. wesport 
The FUNNY part about it is, that the guys at theDEALERSHIP may not eve know the gig and how to do this. It is the guys like you guys on here that have the hours and hours of experience RUNNING these things that give the advice that counts.


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## iflyhelis (Dec 9, 2007)

Runner;497937 said:


> There is no doubt that field proven is always the best bet!
> But anyway, I say we all go over to GEM's place (original poster), get his tractor and go out and push some stuff with it, raising a little tension on the arms to apply some down pressure on the front wheels, and watch the smile on his face. wesport
> The FUNNY part about it is, that the guys at theDEALERSHIP may not eve know the gig and how to do this. It is the guys like you guys on here that have the hours and hours of experience RUNNING these things that give the advice that counts.


+1

Great idea!


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## firstclasslawnc (Jan 25, 2008)

CALL KUBOTA OF WEST MICHIGAN! YOU HAVE THE WRONG TIRES! They were telling me about sparta having a problem with one of their tractors pushing snow.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Little birdie just told me that he has\had the wrong tires on his tractor. Between this and using float, he won't get anything accomplished. 

But hey, my float is broken so what do I know?


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## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;497764 said:


> Trying to bait me? Because most of this post is ignorant. Wideout and XLS have not even been on the market for a full year where the Blizzard has been out for 9 years. The pumps--if they're using the same ones as the new V's--have been out a season and a half where some of the BLizzard pumps have been out for 8 years. Granted, when they switched to Monarchs, they had some gear breakage problems, but the original ones were pretty much flawless.


no.

you can buy what you want.

But I can tell you my dealer sold 50+ of the wideouts and one blizzard they had left over.
Guess which one was back at the shop the first day?

Although it's probably a coincidence, the real problem is that there was an internal electrical failure. Which means it's a PITA to get off the truck and a PITA to chain up to get back to the shop.

I'm not saying don't buy it, I'm not trying to hijack the thread. I'm just DD hit the ball way out of the park with the wide out and highly recommend it.


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## newhol plower (Jan 26, 2008)

big tractors don't use float and have front 3 point hitch had a loader last year and horst blade float didn't work either


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## Tractor Plower (Feb 1, 2007)

Mark Witcher;353863 said:


> If the float control is working it wont lift the front at all.


Mark, It might lift the front if you have so much weight on the back end and nothing on the front, which is what happens when you put the loader in float. You are esentially creating a teeter-totter with the rear axle, because the box weighs alot on the front, and the backhoe on the back pulls the front of the backhoe off the ground. When this happens, the best thing is to keep pressure in the arms- although that's not as safe as float. It's easier to lift the front wheels off the gound than it is to push the box!!!

-Mike


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## Waltersplows (Nov 24, 2008)

Try useing a set of full tred tire chains. They wont hurt the pavment and will do wonders with traction. also, you can add as much weight as you want but if your on ice it wont help at all.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

this is an oldie....how did the tractor work out? what changes were made?


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## grsp (Oct 19, 2008)

gem, i too have a brand new m7040 with a ten foot pusher on the front. rear tires are loaded, with a 9 foot back drag blade on the 3 point. we put the R4 industrial tires on it. this kubota will push down a house. a few tips that we have found work great.
-adjust your rubber cutting edge well below the shoes. the say it should be at least 3/4 inch below.
-do not push in the float position. lower the pusher until it just touches the ground. these pushers are suppose to work like a squeege. 
-i don't run my pusher perfectly level. i do tip it back just slightly. it will help how clean it clears.
-the biggest complaint is the steering. you must feather the pusher up to get it to steer.


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## lawnproslawncar (Dec 9, 2007)

Well I would have to say that that there should be fluid in the front tires as well. I think that tractor should handle it fine. There are a couple options to consider:
1. Add wheel weights to the front as well, the loader probable won't allow for a weight bar up front so the wheel weights are the only answer.
2. Don't use float and maybe you'll have to make a second pass to be able to put pressure on the blade to get a final clean scrape


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## lawnproslawncar (Dec 9, 2007)

another option would be to put snow tires on it from michelen. Our city uses them on their payloader and the guys say it turns it into a pushing beast with traction up the rear end. You all know what payloaders are like with regular tires


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

grsp;715880 said:


> -do not push in the float position. lower the pusher until it just touches the ground. these pushers are suppose to work like a squeege.
> 
> Oh boy, here we go again. lol
> 
> -i don't run my pusher perfectly level. i do tip it back just slightly. it will help how clean it clears.


I wouldn't recommend this as you will wear out your shoes faster, but to each his own.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

lawnproslawncar;716123 said:


> 2. Don't use float and maybe you'll have to make a second pass to be able to put pressure on the blade to get a final clean scrape


Not true, not true.

Depends on how good your operator is.


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## Waltersplows (Nov 24, 2008)

these shouldn't hurt the pavement







copy and paste this URL
http://www.wallingfords.com/aquiline/cut_chains.html


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Waltersplows;716592 said:


> these shouldn't hurt the pavment
> View attachment 50522


You sure? What happens when you spin?

And I've had chains on a smaller tractor with blower setup, I'd hate to have to run around all night with chains. Be needing a visit to the dentist by the end of the night.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;716594 said:


> You sure? What happens when you spin?
> 
> And I've had chains on a smaller tractor with blower setup, I'd hate to have to run around all night with chains. Be needing a visit to the dentist by the end of the night.


No need for chains when the proper blade and ballast is used. I'd never run chains on anything on pavement. So I agree with Mark.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

grsp;715880 said:


> gem, i too have a brand new m7040 with a ten foot pusher on the front. rear tires are loaded, with a 9 foot back drag blade on the 3 point. we put the R4 industrial tires on it. this kubota will push down a house. a few tips that we have found work great.
> -adjust your rubber cutting edge well below the shoes. the say it should be at least 3/4 inch below.
> -do not push in the float position. lower the pusher until it just touches the ground. these pushers are suppose to work like a squeege.
> -i don't run my pusher perfectly level. i do tip it back just slightly. it will help how clean it clears.
> -the biggest complaint is the steering. you must feather the pusher up to get it to steer.


So you would recommend a 10 footer on this machine? I was looking at this machine as well, and the dealer had one there with a 10 footer on there already set to go, and recommended it to.

What about using the left/right rear brakes for assisted steering?


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Rowski;354084 said:


> My understanding and expereince with tractors is that due to loader design (arms) when in float postion will pick-up the front wheels or at least make them very "light". I have found that float only works really well going backwards direction, I have had some luck using it forwards IF you curl the bucket and let the heel of the bucket contact the ground morte than the cutting edge.
> 
> Also by having the pusher, plow, ect, further away from curl/dump pivots will make the problem worse.
> 
> ...


on your lift chain idea... i found that it works really well, and then if you weld a peace of round stock to the a frame... what you can do is tilt the "bucket" (not attached)) down till it comes in contact with the round stock... that then effectivly gives you down pressure, if you need it

also i made mine pretty simply... since i use western plows... what i did was weld ears on the quick plate that mate up with a western plow... So i can attach one if i decided to buy it... then i took my pusher, and welded bars from the blade dirrectly that will fit the same hole spacing and distance. This way to change plows i pull 2 pins, and use the same quick plate , if i want. Also , i used an old diamond trip edge blade with steel edge for my pusher

back to the subject, my 5500 lbs skid steer, can have a hard time pushing an 8 foot box. I found the height of the box really matters... the more snow that touches the pavment , the more drag.. we have one box that is only like 27 inches tall...but has big long wings.... then one that is 38 inches tall, with respectable wings. Both the same lenth, both carry about the same amount of snow, but the 38 tall, pushes much easier


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

merrimacmill;716614 said:


> So you would recommend a 10 footer on this machine? I was looking at this machine as well, and the dealer had one there with a 10 footer on there already set to go, and recommended it to.
> 
> What about using the left/right rear brakes for assisted steering?


Brakes while steering help very little with a full box. You just have to ease the blade up to turn or if it's real tight you have have to backup and take a straight push.


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## Waltersplows (Nov 24, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;716594 said:


> You sure? What happens when you spin?
> 
> And I've had chains on a smaller tractor with blower setup, I'd hate to have to run around all night with chains. Be needing a visit to the dentist by the end of the night.


They run the full length. They don't hammer the pavement


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

if ur thinking chains...whats the pavment like aready? 

a good operator shouldnt hurt it too much, but i have few accounts that just got the lots seal coated...and it looks really nice... in that case chains would be a no no


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

elite1msmith;716772 said:


> if ur thinking chains...shats the pavment like aready?
> 
> a good operator shouldnt hurt it too much, but i have few accounts that just got the lots seal coated...and it looks really nice... in that case chains would be a no no


Have you ever used chains on a medium to large tractor?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;716801 said:


> Have you ever used chains on a medium to large tractor?


This is probably one of those "you should be able to plow with the blade in float position" questions, Dave. 

PS You're a knucklehead. lol


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

JD Dave;716801 said:


> Have you ever used chains on a medium to large tractor?


no , only on smaller things... Im sure they do some damage , i would think, the small tracots i used leaved marks... i would think the bigger and hevier.....more damage- but u tell me

I was just wondering what the current pavment condition is... like i said , i had one accoint , brand new ashault ,and for what ever reason they justt seal coated it.... I was highly considering using only poly on their place.... they are picky , and i could get complaints from scrape marks

if his lot is bare , no seal coat... it might not be an issue as much?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;716812 said:


> PS You're a knucklehead. lol


I'm still laughing, actually kind of crying now.



elite1msmith;716825 said:


> no , only on smaller things... Im sure they do some damage , i would think, the small tracots i used leaved marks... i would think the bigger and hevier.....more damage- but you tell me


In all honesty I've never ran chains but I have plowed snow in a tractor for well over 1000+ hrs to know that chains aren't meant for a large tractor plowing snow at 10-14 mph. Tractors have alot of wheel slip on slippery pavement and I wouldn't want to risk wrecking pavement because someone told me they think it will be alright. Between Quebec and Ontario there a 1000's of tractors pushing snow on pavement and nobody I've ever heard of are running chains, so I don't think I'll be the first. Sidewalk machines are OK for chains because they don't plow at the speeds of a tractor in a lot. JMO


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

JD Dave;716632 said:


> Brakes while steering help very little with a full box. You just have to ease the blade up to turn or if it's real tight you have have to backup and take a straight push.


Spoken like the true professional, that you are.



JD Dave;716845 said:


> I'm still laughing, actually kind of crying now.
> 
> In all honesty I've never ran chains but I have plowed snow in a tractor for well over 1000+ hrs to know that chains aren't meant for a large tractor plowing snow at 10-14 mph. Tractors have alot of wheel slip on slippery pavement and I wouldn't want to risk wrecking pavement because someone told me they think it will be alright. Between Quebec and Ontario there a 1000's of tractors pushing snow on pavement and nobody I've ever heard of are running chains, so I don't think I'll be the first. Sidewalk machines are OK for chains because they don't plow at the speeds of a tractor in a lot. JMO


Hey someone mentioned Quebec, that's rare. When I was a young lad we ran chains on all our tractors. They would leave marks everywhere, and are very noisy. Ah I can close my eyes as I type, and can feel the tractor shaking, and the noise of the chains hitting the pavement, in a beautiful, rhythmic motion. Then suddenly a link breaks, and a section of chain rips of your wheel well, or smashes your window. No thanks, been there done that.
Then they invented the 4 wheel drive, no more need for chains. You should see some guys the put so much down presser they lift their front tires off the ground and turn. They are still going straight yet their tires are at 45 degree turn. Do as JD said, lift your plow a little, then it will turn. Practice will make perfect Thanks for those memories


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## CityGuy (Dec 19, 2008)

Ok, here we go, not a small tractor operator I run a case Ih 535 quad with a scraper but do run a cat d-5 for the company from time to time. Float for a dozer is only used in reverse for fine grading. Not sure if this helps but I would get really good at reading the grade and not use float.


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## Landmark1 (Feb 5, 2007)

GEM;353836 said:


> Thanks for the replies and info. Sorry no photos, the unit is at the dealer right now trying to get this figured out. Yes it was in 4wd, the fronts were spinning. I was running the box in float position. Originally the dealer recommended a 14 ft. box but I need to trailer this once in a while so I went with a 10 footer. Dealer said the tractor would handle it no problem


I would find another dealer. It sounds like they dont know anything about the machines they are selling. That machine is way to small for that sized pusher, you might still have trouble with an 8' pusher on that machine.JMO


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

I was considering a 10' push box for our new tractor then just figured id go with the 8' for now. What is the total weight of this kuboata? tractor weight, loader weight, wheel weights, filled tire weights, counter balance weight? total that up probably isnt the 5000 or less lbs someone referred to earlier.

I havnt got to use our 8' box yet this season, no pushes yet :/ I cant see it struggling through with any amount of snow.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)




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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Very nice set up. That is the right size plow, good fit.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Landmark1;717364 said:


> I would find another dealer. It sounds like they dont know anything about the machines they are selling. That machine is way to small for that sized pusher, you might still have trouble with an 8' pusher on that machine.JMO


Your tractor can handle this size pusher. If this is the first time you ever pushed snow with a tractor and blade, it takes a while to get the hang of it. The snow conditions make a huge difference. Work with it some more and you will see you got a great piece of snow clearing equipment. The other thing I would check out is make sure its in 4x4. It can happen the the 4x4 light comes on, but its still not engaged. Good luck with that, and keep us posted.


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