# Newbies ask, “What equipment do we need?”



## holmy (Aug 5, 2008)

Hi All,

So pleased to find this forum! We need help! 

We’re under contract to purchase a 40-acre property in Conifer, CO (just west of Denver). The house is at about 9700 ft elevation and we’re told it’s in a “snow belt” and so gets more on average the nearby areas. 

We’ll be responsible for plowing almost one mile of private dirt road from our house down to the county-maintained black top (there’s about 800 feet in elevation gain from the paved road to the house). The road is mainly on north and east-facing slopes, and in many sections has thick, young trees along the edge. We’ll be living there year-round, although no previous owner ever has. My hubby can work from home on occasion, but we plan to keep the road open throughout the winter.

We’re hoping you all can help us fully understand just what we’re in for… 

- What kind of equipment would you recommend we purchase (on a moderate budget) for efficient snow removal? 

- About how long does it take to plow one mile of road when there’s say 6 inches, 1 foot, 2 feet, and 3 feet of snow? 

- What kind of contingency-plan equipment do you recommend (i.e., snow mobiles with trailers).

- Are we crazy to be considering dealing with that much snow and road every winter? 

Our (under-educated) idea so far is to maybe get a 4WD dump truck with a plow and a CAT with plow and front loader attachments. 

Any and all insights, ideas, recommendations, and stories are GREATLY appreciated!! 

Thanks,

Mike & Julie H.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

What's a moderate budget?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

What you want to buy are some guys dream equipment. What ever you buy make sure it big enough but not carried away. Not sure what the snow totals are there or how much drifting you get but, when you plow make sure you push it far enough over even if you need to plow the side of the road it won't take long to fill in.You might even consider a snow blower attachment for you cat.If you can give more details we can help you.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Hello...click the link in this thread and you'll be all set. Heck, your neighbors would even pay you to run up and down their driveway 

All kidding aside, you would be fine using a pickup truck with a decent plow. Other options would be to use a skid steer with a plow or blower or a tractor with a rear blower.

Good luck and let us know what you decide on.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Search for threads by *g.moore* he is in the same situation. Read his posts. He is using a lot more truck then plow. He is actually using a 1500 class plow on a high torque truck, and basically beating the living crap out of it. I'll send him a PM and see if I can get him involved in the disscusion.

Welcome to Plowsite.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

basic pick up truck 4x4 with a plow, i would consider a salter, with that much change in elevation

a cat, or other machine , with a blower - if you cant maintaine it on a very regular basis. a trunk will not go through more than 8 inches of snow, unless you know how to do it proprly an blower could , just takes longer


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

elite1msmith;566565 said:


> a trunk will not go through more than 8 inches of snow,


?????? wonder what i'm doing wrong, cause i can move 8" of snow with a truck.


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## holmy (Aug 5, 2008)

<< What's a moderate budget? >>

Yes, I suppose "moderate" is an extremely relative term. 

For us, that means around $20,000 to start. We'd like to spend as little as $10,000 but know that's probably not realistic. If we REALLY stretched it, we could maybe go as high as $30,000.

We have a line on an older CAT for maybe as little as $3,000. Not sure about the details yet. Also still trying to get more info on typical snowfall depths up there.

<< If you can give more details we can help you. >>

Which details do you have in mind? 

Mike & Julie H.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

You're kidding with $30,000 aren't you? Hi, Julie, it's Mick. I referred you here. You should be able to get a decent used 3/4 ton pick and good 8' plow for around $15,000. Make sure it's four-wheel-drive. That's plenty for one mile of private road; especially if you'll plow "with the storm" or every 4-6". Main thing after that is to make sure there are places to "push off" the snow every so often and learn how to "throw" the snow off to the side if needed. This means going fast enough so the snow goes up and over the snow on the side of the road, so you don't get closed in from narrowing lane of snow. I plow several private drives from 1/4 to a mile and the technique is the same regardless of length. Someone suggested salt - ok unless your road is gravel or dirt. Then go with sand or a sand/salt mix (10% salt to keep the sand from clumping). Get a tailgate model spreader and sand just the curves and hills.

A $15,000 set up is way enough. For a private drive, it could actually be a beater. You wouldn't need to register it.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

holmy;566690 said:


> For us, that means around $20,000 to start. We'd like to spend as little as $10,000 but know that's probably not realistic. If we REALLY stretched it, we could maybe go as high as $30,000.


For $15k I will deliver this truck to your front door. 2001 Ford F-350 w/ 8'6" Hiniker V










(And I can certainly get you better pictures if you're interested, this photo was taken with my cell phone)


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Camden;566737 said:


> For $15k I will deliver this truck to your front door. 2001 Ford F-350 w/ 8'6" Hiniker V
> 
> 
> 
> ...


will it have one of those christmas tree air fresheners hanging from the rear view?


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

iceyman;566759 said:


> will it have one of those christmas tree air fresheners hanging from the rear view?


No, that's extra :waving:


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

basher;566618 said:


> ?????? wonder what i'm doing wrong, cause i can move 8" of snow with a truck.


basher, ? i thought they said dirt road, with 800 feet change in elevation over 1 mile, thats alot.

im sure we all know that you push snow down hill, but when you get to the bottom, you need to come back up. 8 inches, is alot , if its heavy wet snow,

and im keeping in mind they never have plowed snow before? right?

i try not to let my accounts pile up over 4-6 inches, 8 to me seems hard on the equiptment, but YES ur right it can be done

this of cousrse is assuming that the homeowner will be home the entire time its snowing to keep it plowed.... what happens after 12 inches, and the owner is not home? he might need a 4 wheeler to get to the top, just to get to the truck

back to the question, if ur able to keep up with the snow, and are home to do so, a used plow truck ,would be just fine, save ur money

if your gone alot, or have high paying jobs ... might want a blower of some kind as a back up, in case it piles up

Camden - nice truck -


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

elite1msmith;566790 said:


> basher, ? i thought they said dirt road, with 800 feet change in elevation over 1 mile, thats alot.
> 
> im sure we all know that you push snow down hill, but when you get to the bottom, you need to come back up. 8 inches, is alot , if its heavy wet snow,
> 
> -


It's not ideal but it can be done, check out what g.moore uses to do about the same thing. I'd consider a V if possible to make life easier, but a properly ballasted truck with the right tires and plow...

They live in a place where they need to have a steep learning curve. If i left knowing it was going to snow and no one was home to keep it clear, I'd leave the plow truck at the bottom


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

lol, good thinking, i hope they take that advice


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Just for curiosity, I would get a couple quotes, on a contractor doing your drive, just to see how much your really saving.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

JD Dave;566951 said:


> Just for curiosity, I would get a couple quotes, on a contractor doing your drive, just to see how much your really saving.


That's a good idea


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## jomofo (Apr 26, 2008)

Howdy - I'm in the same boat as you - just moved to Idaho Springs CO and have about 2/3 of a mile to plow. I bought a new Dodge 2500 in order to take advantage of the lifetime warranty... Got that and a new Boss 9'2" VXT plow with all the trimmings for just over $40K. 

Welcome to the neighborhood, and good luck!


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

jomofo;567078 said:


> Howdy - I Got that and a new Boss 9'2" VXT plow with all the trimmings for just over $40K.


*FOR JUST OVER $40 GRAND I WOULD HAVE SOLD YA ALL MY TRUCKS WITH PLOWS *..............LMAO


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## heavyiron (Dec 7, 2007)

*Ambition*

Depending on your background and experience with equipment, a used 3/4 ton + truck in good shape would be a fine starting point. A v - plow makes sense for your application. I'd think about picking up the CAT ( I assume your talking a tracked machine like a dozer or crawler loader ) if it's in OK shape and the price is right because you may need something for when it's really deep or drifted or you just need to push piles back. They are not super hard to get the hang of, however if you don't have a lot of experience running equipment you can get into a lot of trouble very quick with steel tracks on frozen ground if you're on a hill. ( and if you get a crawler stuck your really up the creek ). Besides the winter application it may be handy for property maintenance and grading your road....

If you want to plow yourself, snag a truck and plow. Maybe sit tight on the heavy equipment - see how often you actually need it. Call a local excavator to begin with if you do and if it makes sense, buy a used machine. They can be money pits, thought...

Good luck!


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## jomofo (Apr 26, 2008)

nickplowing1972;567719 said:


> *FOR JUST OVER $40 GRAND I WOULD HAVE SOLD YA ALL MY TRUCKS WITH PLOWS *..............LMAO


yeah, that sounds like a great plan.... I'd much rather have a pile of old trucks and plows than my new 2500/Boss VXT and the lifetime bumper-to-bumper warrenty.

Why didn't you post an ad? "Pile of old crap FS - will trade for brand new rig"...

:salute:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;566951 said:


> Just for curiosity, I would get a couple quotes, on a contractor doing your drive, just to see how much your really saving.


You mean like this guy?

http://www.plowsite.com/member.php?find=lastposter&t=18728


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Mark Oomkes;568223 said:


> You mean like this guy?
> 
> http://www.plowsite.com/member.php?find=lastposter&t=18728


Great Idea JD !
Find a dependable contractor like Scott, pay him 6K for the season, and stay in bed pumpkin:


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## g.moore (Oct 10, 2006)

Sorry I haven't gotten here sooner but prepping for winter is taking all my time. I live in Bailey at 9000'. Plow a varying amount of road from 1/2 mile to 1 mile with the last portion a 30% grade for about 250' or so. My "baby" is a 1964 International 3/4 T, 266 CID V8, 4 spd and a 1965 Meyer 7 1/2' plow with power angle and a 1' steel addition for height and heavy chains on all 4's. It comes out if there's over about 8" of snow. Typically I plow with a 2007 Arctic Cat 650 H1 ATV with a 60" blade, it will handle anything up to about 8" and if it's nice and fluffy 12". The backup is my driver 1996 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel with a Sno Way 8' blade. I can say I really try and avoid using it, it's a real handful even chained. Pushing the 8' blade with 415HP and 900ftlbs of torque takes alot of finess (it's alot like driving tacks with an 18lb sledge). You have to plow with the storms, even the '64 can only push so much. So I try and limit it to a max of 18" per push, I did get blindsided 2 years ago and ended up pushing 3.5', the old girl did it up hill and down without nary a whimper. Bear in mind you will get wet snow predominantly in the spring and _usually_ a max of 12". A typical snow from Oct to March is light and fluffy, nothing like the slop we got back home in WI. 
My suggestion would be a STOCK diesel, whether it's a 7.3 'Stroke, 24V Cummins (stay away from the 12V like mine, real PITA to start in 0 degree weather) you will like having all the power right there at idle and just put a timer on the block heater to turn on at 4AM and off at 7AM so it's always ready. I would kill for a V plow with a trip edge. Plowing the dirt the blade will be tripping alot and it's hell on the truck having that big blade rocking back and forth. Using the V blade you can run it full angle for a little snow and push it to the side or if you do get blindsided put it into the V and slice right through, along with being able to do the inverted V to control where the snow goes. I would not want a blower as a primary snow mover, it's slow and you will suck alot of rocks and sticks in but it would be nice for the heavy snows we get about every 5 years or so. I would also suggest a decent (Ramsey) winch to get yourself out of the ditch, it will happen. If you have any other ?'s you can email me if you like [email protected] and I'll be happy to help since we are close by and dealing with the same problems.


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## jomofo (Apr 26, 2008)

g.moore;571501 said:


> Sorry I haven't gotten here sooner but prepping for winter is taking all my time. I live in Bailey at 9000'. Plow a varying amount of road from 1/2 mile to 1 mile with the last portion a 30% grade for about 250' or so. My "baby" is a 1964 International 3/4 T, 266 CID V8, 4 spd and a 1965 Meyer 7 1/2' plow with power angle and a 1' steel addition for height and heavy chains on all 4's. It comes out if there's over about 8" of snow. Typically I plow with a 2007 Arctic Cat 650 H1 ATV with a 60" blade, it will handle anything up to about 8" and if it's nice and fluffy 12". The backup is my driver 1996 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel with a Sno Way 8' blade. I can say I really try and avoid using it, it's a real handful even chained. Pushing the 8' blade with 415HP and 900ftlbs of torque takes alot of finess (it's alot like driving tacks with an 18lb sledge). You have to plow with the storms, even the '64 can only push so much. So I try and limit it to a max of 18" per push, I did get blindsided 2 years ago and ended up pushing 3.5', the old girl did it up hill and down without nary a whimper. Bear in mind you will get wet snow predominantly in the spring and _usually_ a max of 12". A typical snow from Oct to March is light and fluffy, nothing like the slop we got back home in WI.
> My suggestion would be a STOCK diesel, whether it's a 7.3 'Stroke, 24V Cummins (stay away from the 12V like mine, real PITA to start in 0 degree weather) you will like having all the power right there at idle and just put a timer on the block heater to turn on at 4AM and off at 7AM so it's always ready. I would kill for a V plow with a trip edge. Plowing the dirt the blade will be tripping alot and it's hell on the truck having that big blade rocking back and forth. Using the V blade you can run it full angle for a little snow and push it to the side or if you do get blindsided put it into the V and slice right through, along with being able to do the inverted V to control where the snow goes. I would not want a blower as a primary snow mover, it's slow and you will suck alot of rocks and sticks in but it would be nice for the heavy snows we get about every 5 years or so. I would also suggest a decent (Ramsey) winch to get yourself out of the ditch, it will happen. If you have any other ?'s you can email me if you like [email protected] and I'll be happy to help since we are close by and dealing with the same problems.


Hey G.Moore, thanks for this info - really helpful.... do you have either shoes or skids on your set up?

And why on earth did you ever sell that Les Paul? lol.. (not sure if anyone here'll pick that one up, but I'm being funny for my own benefit)


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## g.moore (Oct 10, 2006)

Shoes in the spring and fall when the ground is still soft or you'll be cutting a new road. Once everything freezes take them off or the wear bar will be 2" off the road in a couple hundred feed from the ice and snow packing onto them. You will also want a deflector on the top of your blade or the powder blows right over into the windshield. This past winter I plowed only 4 storms with the big truck, the others were done with the ATV. The snow was so light and fluffy I was pushing 16" at 15MPH up hill with no problem. What you need to be concerned with is once it packs it turns to a nice slick ice that is all but impossible to cut through. You can also gauge how winter conditions will be by what direction your roads face. Our driveway is north facing and always a skating rink, one portion of the road (the worst) is south facing and melts off in 24hrs or so if plowed and the other portion is 50% shaded running E-W and takes about 48hrs to melt off.
Don't get the L.P thing, either 35 isn't old enough or I spend too much time on the Mtn away from civilization (wife has to threaten me with um "removal of benefits" to get me into town):crying:.


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## jomofo (Apr 26, 2008)

QUOTE=g.moore;571760]
Don't get the L.P thing, either 35 isn't old enough or I spend too much time on the Mtn away from civilization (wife has to threaten me with um "removal of benefits" to get me into town):crying:.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the information - it's gonna be an interesting winter. Can't wait! wesport

Here's the LP (the Peter Green LP) - and that's Gary Moore, who sold it...








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## zabMasonry (Oct 13, 2007)

Personally with that budget i would go for the ATV with plow and a tractor with a BIG like 7 or 8' two stage blower. In small or light snows go for the ATV and in the big snows the tractor. The tractor won't be the quickest way to get it clean, but with the big blower it would be one pass down and back up. Allows you to only have to go out once during the storm. Also during the summer the ATV and tractor can be used around the house. I'd say you'd need about 50 hp 60 would probably be better, and make sure to put SKIDDER CHAINS (have pegs to really grip in) on all four tires. Additionally the tractor should have a loader which can make quick work of snowbanks that are getting a bit on the large side.


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## dakotaland (Oct 17, 2008)

I live in Deer Creek Canyon, southeast of Conifer, last 23 years experience is plows are great and convenient but with our levels of snowfall you either need a tractor or a contractor to come in regularly clear back the narrowing drives, roads. Take a look around your property and roads and plan where the snow piles will go. Early in the year make sure you keep this pushed as far back as you can, they will fill up fast.

I have a 1997 JD 5400 4x4 tractor and it has been my main snow clearing equipment but slow and tedious as I use the back blade on the Gannon. I have had a plow on a 1976 F250 years ago and it worked fine unless it was an extremely heavy year, then I ran out of places to put snow. I am going to put a plow on a 1996 Ford Bronco for my daily clearing this year (this is a luxury, and enclosed vehicle) and use the tractor to keep the sides and snow piles manageable.

800 feet of elevation change in a mile is quite a bit but I have similar here and mostly push down hill when the snow gets deep. I used the JD in March of 2003 when we had literally 7' of snow. I took 4 days to go 1/8 mile and when we got to the county road it was a wall of snow, they didn't get up to us for another 2 days. If I can get that storm figured out everything else is easy.


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

You should just get a loader. A truck will work but a loader will work alot better. Don't get an old loader for under $15,000 it will be junk. If you want a loader that you wont have to work on after every storm you will have to pay atleast $20,000.


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## dakotaland (Oct 17, 2008)

mercer

That's what my John Deere 5400 is!!! LOL! It's a diesel 60 hp, 4x4 tractor with a loader and hydraulic grade box that has chains on all four tires year 'round. Most "yellow" equipment I can afford is 2wd but this I bought new in 1997 and it is a sizeable tractor.

Yup, I'm set there 

A plow on my Bronco is for light snows and will be much quicker than using the tractor on a daily basis, I have about 1/4 mile of gravel road to take care of. I drag the tractor out to widen the road and move the snow piles and feed my livestock daily.

I certainly don't know all the ins and outs but the last 23 years have taught me a few tricks.


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## The MAG Man (May 31, 2007)

I'm going a little different direction here and suggest you forget the truck and plunk all the money into a CAT tractor loader backhoe. You probably won't be able to find what you need but a CAT 416 would be a good machine for 1 mile of road in high elevations where you are. You have steep presumably curved climbing to do and that means you're going to need something substantial even though it's only 1 mile. Two pieces of equipment will be two registrations, two insurance policies, and two machines to maintain. A 416 w/detachable plow & bucket would knock that job out AND let you do a lot of site work around your new property. You will need the bucket to push back and pile at the intersection with the main road, and the power and grip of the 416 will get the job done. Obviously you need to look only at ones with an enclosed heated cab.

You should be able to find a 416 for less than $20k and it will do everything you need to do and leave you some room to buy other attachments as necessary.

That's my two cents.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

this thread is sounding like too much work.

Me being the type of person i am i would try to find a used sno cat or similiar and not even plow it just drive over the snow right to my front door.
Or maybe a old bull dozer and just give er' hell. 
preferably just driving over the snow though. Either way i wouldnt want five pieces of different equipment, have to depend on a truck for something like that, or maintain a blower or anything with lots of moving parts to plow it.
a rusty dozer or a old snow cat would be my idea.


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## dakotaland (Oct 17, 2008)

holmy ...

On an average, I get a total of 120" - 144" inches of snow annually, I would imagine you would be able to expect similar snow falls as we are fairly close. I also live on a similar road. I am only responsible for 1/4 mile of the 3 mi, we all share.

I think a plow and truck will do you fine, if you need to, you can leave a daily driver at the end of your road and exchange your chained plow truck with it for go to town driving. I have never had to do that, nor my neighbors unless it is an extreme winter. 

Also, plowing with a truck downhill and driving back up your track for the next pass is fairly efficient. We do it here all the time. We also will plow off the top half if it is deep, then the lower snow on the second pass. What I would suggest is not to be too worried about it if you have a reliable plow truck but chains are a must on all 4 tires.

In the long run, you will probably want some type of loader eventually, simply to widen and clear piles, a 4x4 type is a must, the down side of a track loader here with that length of road, is the time to clear. Even the rubber tired loaders are extremely slow. I would recommend you get through the first winter and search for a tractor of some type when you have a feel for exactly what you want. Unfortunately, Colorado's construction economy is fairly active and quality used equipment isn't available for as reasonable a price as elsewhere. As others have mentioned, it can be a maintenance headache if it goes wrong for you. Tractors, construction and farm equipment is not registered here and would not necessarily need to be insured if it remains on your property, so there is no additional cost to owning more than one item.

The downside of a big track loader or large piece of equipment is road damage in the spring as the frost comes out. We have an agreement here to keep all heavy equipment off the road until later, some years as late as June or July. That essentially means potentially March to July. Even though we have a quality gravel road on bedrock the surface is fragile until the frost moisture has left the ground. I also keep my chained green tractor off the road during those times.

With that length of road, you may want to choose a 4wd tractor with a hydraulic grade box on it for spring and summer road maintenance. Even with the best of intentions, most of the plowed roads in our areas lose a good share of their material to the Platte River eventually.


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