# Towing w/ F250 or F350- CDL Required?



## ARP

If I was to purchase a used F250 or F350 diesel and tow with it either a drop deck equipment trailer or a dump trailer rated at 14- 16,000 lbs. (GCVWR at approx. 20- 24,000 lbs) for a skidsteer business- would I need a CDL to operate this rig?


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## oldmankent

ARP said:


> If I was to purchase a used F250 or F350 diesel and tow with it either a drop deck equipment trailer or a dump trailer rated at 14- 16,000 lbs. (GCVWR at approx. 20- 24,000 lbs) for a skidsteer business- would I need a CDL to operate this rig?


As long as your rated GCWR is below 26000 you don't need a CDL. But you should check with local and state laws. You're gonna have trouble staying within your GVWR with a trailer like that.


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## plowed

Oldmankent, I don't believe this is correct. As I posted on the other thread, when pulling any trailer with a gvw above 10k pounds, you will need a Class A CDL.

This is a federal reg.


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## 84deisel

agreed .CDL A required on any trailer over 10000 lbs .BTW CDL is federal mandated laws and regulations not state laws and regs.


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## bsnead

26001 gross is the break point for a class A cdl.For example,if you operate a dump truck with a gross weight rating of 25995 and pull a land scape trailer with a rating of 7000 lbs. you need no cdl at all.If you bump the rating on the truck to 33000 you would need a class b cdl.If your truck is rated at 33,000 and you pull a backhoe trailer rated at 20,000 or any rating above 10,001 you would need a class a cdl.


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## oldmankent

Guys, I am reading this off of my Commonwealth of Massachusetts Commercial Driver's License Manual version 2.0. "You must have a CDL to operate: A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. if the gross combination weight rating is more than 26,000 lbs." I'm just answering the question as I understand it from this book. The magic number is 26,000. Whether combined or not if you go over it you need a CDL. Anything under it, and you should not. But check with your registry or state police to find out for sure.


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## saleen49

I hold an Illinois class B which allows me to operate any single non combo vehicle (except motorcycles) with air brakes, I use to drive a Mack six wheeler dump, as i understood the law the cut off for a CDL was 26,000,


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## scuba875

If you operate a commercial vehicle, the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) or Department of Public Safety (DPS) will require you to carry a commercial driver license (CDL). In most states, a CDL is required for anyone who is driving a vehicle interstate or intrastate with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more. If you will be driving a vehicle designed to carry 16 or more passengers or transporting hazardous materials, regardless of the GVWR, a CDL may be required. A commercial driver may have only one license and it must be issued by their home state. Examples of vehicles required by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) or Department of Public Safety (DPS) to be operated by a CDL holder are: tractor-trailer, Greyhound bus, multi-person transportation van, taxi, dump truck

This is from the US DMV web site. Here is the link http://www.godmv.com/commercial-drivers-license.htm

Your states rules are the same as Illinois however Illinois also places a note at the bottom that says "Note: Holders of a Class D license may operate all vehicles within Class D and may operate rental vehicles up to 26,000 pounds when transporting an individual's own personal property or that of an immediate family member for non-business purposes within the State of Illinois." I would check with your state to see if they have the same requirements. You are using this for business so it may effect if you need it.

This is from your states web page.

Class A- Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination vehicle weight rating GCWR of 26,001 lbs. or more provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 lbs., except a School Bus. With a Class A license and the appropriate endorsements, you may operate any vehicle covered within Classes B and C.

Class B- Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating GVWR of 26,001 lbs. or more, or any such vehicle towing another vehicle not in excess of 10,000 lbs. GVWR, except a School Bus. With a Class B license and appropriate endorsements, you may operate any vehicle covered within Class C.

Class C- Any vehicle that is either less than 26,001 lbs. GVWR or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 lbs. GVWR or a vehicle placarded for hazardous materials or designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the operator, except a School Bus.

Class D- Any single vehicle or combination except a semitrailer unit, truck trailer combination, tractor, or truck having a registered gross weight in excess of 26,000 lbs., a bus or a school bus.

Class M- A motorcycle or any other motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the rider and designed to travel with no more than three wheels in contact with the ground.


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## cityscapes

I don't know if this is right or not, but in the state of Indiana, I was told by the DOT that within Indiana if your GCWR is 10,001 or more than you have to have a us dot # and if your over 16,000 they want you to have a CDL Now personally I think the lady I was talking to Had no clue as to what the laws were. She told me that my f-150 and a 16' trailer needed to have a dot #. She may be right, but if she is, I would be the only one with a # for about a 75 mile radius. I bring this up because it could require you to meet certian standards with your truck/trailer and the fines for not meeting the standards are pretty steep


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## Team_Yamaha

My 05 F-350 4X4 DRW has a GVWR of 13,000 lbs and my small equipment trailer has a GVWR of 13,600 which brings me to 26,600 CGVWR which means anyone that drives it needs a CDL A. Which is now big deal for me since I and 2 of my employees already have them, but the other guy that works for me can't pull any of my trailers with the 05 until he gets his CDL. As for the DOT#'s I will have to look that up agian to be sure, but I think that you only need them if you are traveling across state lines doing business. In you own state you should also need a different state #.


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## farmboy52787

Team_Yamaha;209389 said:


> My 05 F-350 4X4 DRW has a GVWR of 13,000 lbs and my small equipment trailer has a GVWR of 13,600 which brings me to 26,600 CGVWR which means anyone that drives it needs a CDL A. Which is now big deal for me since I and 2 of my employees already have them, but the other guy that works for me can't pull any of my trailers with the 05 until he gets his CDL. As for the DOT#'s I will have to look that up agian to be sure, but I think that you only need them if you are traveling across state lines doing business. In you own state you should also need a different state #.


No you guys are all wrong, you only need a CDL license to operate a vehicle that has a GVWR of 26001 lbs or more. So if its under that then it doesnt matter what you pull with it because the truck itself is under 26001 lbs GVWR. So for Class B drivers they can drive anything except for pulling a trailer that has a GVWR of 10001 or more lbs. Thats just ridiculous if everyone would need a CDL license to drive 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups with trailers


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## Camden

Good thing you came along to clear that up....3 years and 4 months after the thread was started


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## NoFearDeere

I will just comment on the DOT number thing....you must have a US DOT number if you are operating as a business and cross state lines. As for me, I rarely cross state lines doing anything with my business but i'm going to get a DOT just in case.


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## farmboy52787

Camden;563814 said:


> Good thing you came along to clear that up....3 years and 4 months after the thread was started


No No No, thank god for you


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## Gicon

bsnead;209049 said:


> 26001 gross is the break point for a class A cdl.For example,if you operate a dump truck with a gross weight rating of 25995 and pull a land scape trailer with a rating of 7000 lbs. you need no cdl at all.If you bump the rating on the truck to 33000 you would need a class b cdl.If your truck is rated at 33,000 and you pull a backhoe trailer rated at 20,000 or any rating above 10,001 you would need a class a cdl.


You are very wrong sir.


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## Sweetpete

Class A CDL only involves trailers over 10k lbs. Period. In effect, a class A and class B are the same, other than the trailer limits on the A.

Also, the CDL is only necessary if the vehicle is used for work. You can pull a travel trailer over 10k lbs and not need a class A CDL, as long as you're not pulling it for profit. BTW, I base my comments on pg 1-1 of the 05 Model Commercial Drivers License Manual


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## masonman

Iam Confused I need someone who knows the laws , i live in Wisconsin i own a masonry company and i have a f250, i have a 14' dump trailer, and a 7,000 pound skid loader Ive been told i need a cdl and some have told me NO i don't So confused???


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## Randall Ave

masonman said:


> Iam Confused I need someone who knows the laws , i live in Wisconsin i own a masonry company and i have a f250, i have a 14' dump trailer, and a 7,000 pound skid loader Ive been told i need a cdl and some have told me NO i don't So confused???


You should look into your stats regs, but I think you do not need one, on another note this thread is ten years old. Laws do change.


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## John_DeereGreen

If GVWR of truck plus GVWR of the trailer is 26000 pounds or less, no CDL needed.


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## NYH1

John_DeereGreen said:


> If GVWR of truck plus GVWR of the trailer is 26000 pounds or less, no CDL needed.


That's how it is in NY too.

I've been told you can also drive a truck up to 26k lbs. and tow a trailer up to 10k lbs. without needing a CDL. Not sure if this is the case or not. You would think the overall GCWR is all that would matter, not which vehicle weighed what. Like I said, not sure.

NYH1.


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## seville009

https://www.truckercountry.com/cdl-training/cdl-requirements/


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## 1olddogtwo

Follow the trail and you'll receive the correct answer.


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## John_DeereGreen

NYH1 said:


> That's how it is in NY too.
> 
> I've been told you can also drive a truck up to 26k lbs. and tow a trailer up to 10k lbs. without needing a CDL. Not sure if this is the case or not. You would think the overall GCWR is all that would matter, not which vehicle weighed what. Like I said, not sure.
> 
> NYH1.


Correct. My 4300 International has a GVW of either 25500 or 25999, I can't remember. I've got multiple trailers that GVW is 99--. Any of those trailers can legally be pulled by the 4300 on a standard driver license/medical card combo. No CDL needed.


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## the Suburbanite

NYH1 said:


> That's how it is in NY too.
> 
> I've been told you can also drive a truck up to 26k lbs. and tow a trailer up to 10k lbs. without needing a CDL. Not sure if this is the case or not. You would think the overall GCWR is all that would matter, not which vehicle weighed what. Like I said, not sure.
> 
> NYH1.


Pretty sure 26K total combined is the magic number, but... if the vehicle and trailer are being used in a commercial capacity, NYDOT #'s are required.
However, even under 26K, your state may require USDOT #'s depending on weight (or total # of passengers) if your rig is being used in a Commercial capacity.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/do-i-need-usdot-number

My understanding is that if you are required to have DOT#'s, rules and enforcement are a whole new ball-game.


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## MXZ1983

John_DeereGreen said:


> Correct. My 4300 International has a GVW of either 25500 or 25999, I can't remember. I've got multiple trailers that GVW is 99--. Any of those trailers can legally be pulled by the 4300 on a standard driver license/medical card combo. No CDL needed.


JDG, check the info again. If it's a combination you add the weights together. Legally you can't pull any trailer behind that 4300 without a class A license. 
"Gross combined GVWR of tow vehicle and trailer in tow over 26001 lbs requires class A."


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## John_DeereGreen

MXZ1983 said:


> JDG, check the info again. If it's a combination you add the weights together. Legally you can't pull any trailer behind that 4300 without a class A license.
> "Gross combined GVWR of tow vehicle and trailer in tow over 26001 lbs requires class A."


Wrong.

If the trailer is over 10000 pounds that is correct. If the trailer is under 10000 pounds, and the truck is 26000 or less, no CDL required.

Straight from FMCSA guidelines.


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## MXZ1983

John_DeereGreen said:


> Wrong.
> 
> If the trailer is over 10000 pounds that is correct. If the trailer is under 10000 pounds, and the truck is 26000 or less, no CDL required.
> 
> Straight from FMCSA guidelines.
> View attachment 180259


Edit. You're correct I apologise. I read it wrong. It's a little confusing as you know.


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## John_DeereGreen

MXZ1983 said:


> Edit. You're correct I apologise. I read it wrong. It's a little confusing as you know.


Yes, I think it's confusing on purpose. Just a giant money grab.


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## MXZ1983

Easier to read


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## NYH1

the Suburbanite said:


> Pretty sure 26K total combined is the magic number, but... if the vehicle and trailer are being used in a commercial capacity, NYDOT #'s are required.
> However, even under 26K, your state may require USDOT #'s depending on weight (or total # of passengers) if your rig is being used in a Commercial capacity.
> https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/do-i-need-usdot-number
> 
> My understanding is that if you are required to have DOT#'s, rules and enforcement are a whole new ball-game.


We're in the same state. The DOT number requirement is for any vehicle or combination of vehicles that weigh 10,001 lbs. or more that are used for commerce.

That could be a half ton truck with 6700 GVWR towing a trailer with a 3500 GVWR (10,200 GCWR). Gotta have DOT numbers and company name on the truck. Also a pickup trucks that a company uses for plowing with GVWR of 10,001 lbs. or more would need the same.

Most companies letter them up anyways whether they're required or not (at least the name).

NYH1.


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## NYH1

1olddogtwo said:


> Follow the trail and you'll receive the correct answer.
> 
> View attachment 180255


That is prefect! 

NYH1.


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## 1olddogtwo

Say a truck under 26k has Air brakes....do you need a restriction or endorsement for them.....


Trick question(s)


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## Ajlawn1

No


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## Philbilly2

1olddogtwo said:


> Say a truck under 26k has Air brakes....do you need a restriction or endorsement for them.....
> 
> Trick question(s)


There is no endorsement for air brakes...


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## Randall Ave

1olddogtwo said:


> Say a truck under 26k has Air brakes....do you need a restriction or endorsement for them.....
> 
> Trick question(s)


Nada


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## 1olddogtwo

Ok....

Can I still drive it with my IL class D?


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## Mark Oomkes

1olddogtwo said:


> Say a truck under 26k has Air brakes....do you need a restriction or endorsement for them.....
> 
> Trick question(s)


Both


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## Ajlawn1

1olddogtwo said:


> Ok....
> 
> Can I still drive it with my IL class D?


No sounds like you need a Class C in Illinoise....


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## JMHConstruction

You suckers..

Who uses a driver's license??


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## leolkfrm

if you take a cdl test with a juice brake truck, then there is a "no air restriction" ...goes back to trucks of old when there were more juice brakes on them


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## NYH1

leolkfrm said:


> if you take a cdl test with a juice brake truck, then there is a "no air restriction" ...goes back to trucks of old when there were more juice brakes on them


Kinda like taking it in a truck with an auto trans, you get a manual trans restriction. Or is that only in CDL Class A trucks?

NYH1.


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## John_DeereGreen

NYH1 said:


> Kinda like taking it in a truck with an auto trans, you get a manual trans restriction. Or is that only in CDL Class A trucks?
> 
> NYH1.


It applies to everything, not just class A. But you can have a manual trans restricted class A, and take a manual trans class B truck and remove the restriction.


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## NYH1

John_DeereGreen said:


> It applies to everything, not just class A. But you can have a manual trans restricted class A, and take a manual trans class B truck and remove the restriction.


Ok, good to know.

It's been so long since I took my CDL (B) '96. I don't even remember them having a manual trans. restriction back then. However, all our trucks were manual so maybe that's why it never came up. I do recall there was a air brake endorsement back then....I think. Because I had HazMat and Air Brake on the back of my DL.

Now I have Med Card Exempt. and Air Brake Restr.

NYH1.


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## Philbilly2

1olddogtwo said:


> Ok....
> 
> Can I still drive it with my IL class D?


You don't have an IL Class D so the answer would be No... YOU cannot...


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## John_DeereGreen

NYH1 said:


> Ok, good to know.
> 
> It's been so long since I took my CDL (B) '96. I don't even remember them having a manual trans. restriction back then. However, all our trucks were manual so maybe that's why it never came up. I do recall there was a air brake endorsement back then....I think. Because I had HazMat and Air Brake on the back of my DL.
> 
> Now I have Med Card Exempt. and Air Brake Restr.
> 
> NYH1.


They've just added the hitch/transmission BS in the last couple years.


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## framer1901

Why is this question repeated over and over? 

Call your local cops that enforce commercial vehicle codes. Here in MI it's the state cops with "Commercial Vehicle Enforcement" on the back of their trucks, or the one dude in Wyoming if he ain't retired yet. I seen one today with six scales under a truck and the driver pale as a ghost......

When you get pulled over, telling them Billy Bob on Plow Site said it was OK ain't gonna work.

No offense to the guys that know or the ones that think they know - it just brings back bad memories here in MI from the Granholm DOT# hearsay days......


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## John_DeereGreen

framer1901 said:


> Why is this question repeated over and over?
> 
> Call your local cops that enforce commercial vehicle codes. Here in MI it's the state cops with "Commercial Vehicle Enforcement" on the back of their trucks, or the one dude in Wyoming if he ain't retired yet. I seen one today with six scales under a truck and the driver pale as a ghost......
> 
> When you get pulled over, telling them Billy Bob on Plow Site said it was OK ain't gonna work.
> 
> No offense to the guys that know or the ones that think they know - it just brings back bad memories here in MI from the Granholm DOT# hearsay days......


Because even those morons can't answer the same question the same way from officer to officer.


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## NYH1

John_DeereGreen said:


> Because even those morons can't answer the same question the same way from officer to officer.


This is true.

NYH1.


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## Randall Ave

I've talked to cops here, they just don't know.


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## Mark Oomkes

framer1901 said:


> Why is this question repeated over and over?
> 
> Call your local cops that enforce commercial vehicle codes. Here in MI it's the state cops with "Commercial Vehicle Enforcement" on the back of their trucks, or the one dude in Wyoming if he ain't retired yet. I seen one today with six scales under a truck and the driver pale as a ghost......
> 
> When you get pulled over, telling them Billy Bob on Plow Site said it was OK ain't gonna work.
> 
> No offense to the guys that know or the ones that think they know - it just brings back bad memories here in MI from the Granholm DOT# hearsay days......


While I agree...the other's statements are correct. Ask a question from 3 motor carrier cops and you will get 4 different answers.

I was told I had to have bungee straps on the side of my tarp...asked 2 others and they had no idea what the other cop was talking aboot.

MSP motor carriers continue to insist 3/4 and 1 tonnes need EGVW plates...they're wrong. I have a letter from the SOS proving they are wrong. Put a copy in the truck most likely to be pulled over.

The laws are written in such a confusing manner that they can be interpreted in more than 1 way. And the cops use it to their advantage.

How long did everyone insist that any truck with air brakes automatically required a CDL? People still believe that lie.


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## framer1901

I agree on the multiple answers from different officers - It's the core what do I need to drive this truck hauling that trailer question that every time it's asked on here you get a whole variety of answers.

The answers I see here to that question are all over the place and while there's Federal laws it makes me think that maybe differing states have different laws which would even make it more complicated.

Old Dog obviously works somewhere moving all kinds of stuff around and I'd think he'd know what he's doing in the areas he's worked. That flow chart is straight forward to me except in the area that the truck I'm driving is 26k, what trailer can I haul with no CDL. The wording just confuses me which doesn't take much.

Add to the fact, one MSP Lt told me that even though the trailer is tagged at 10k, 8 lugs two axles tells them it's 14k soooooo daily attitude along with moon phase could prevail.

We run at most tagged 10k but really 14k trailers behind 26k trucks hoping for the best. Oh, with air brakes too.........


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## John_DeereGreen

framer1901 said:


> I agree on the multiple answers from different officers - It's the core what do I need to drive this truck hauling that trailer question that every time it's asked on here you get a whole variety of answers.
> 
> The answers I see here to that question are all over the place and while there's Federal laws it makes me think that maybe differing states have different laws which would even make it more complicated.
> 
> Old Dog obviously works somewhere moving all kinds of stuff around and I'd think he'd know what he's doing in the areas he's worked. That flow chart is straight forward to me except in the area that the truck I'm driving is 26k, what trailer can I haul with no CDL. The wording just confuses me which doesn't take much.
> 
> *Add to the fact, one MSP Lt told me that even though the trailer is tagged at 10k, 8 lugs two axles tells them it's 14k soooooo daily attitude along with moon phase could prevail.*
> 
> We run at most tagged 10k but really 14k trailers behind 26k trucks hoping for the best. Oh, with air brakes too.........


Part in bold...wow...

It might have 2 8 lug axles but the GVW sticker is what they've gotta go by...

I think all cops are governed by moon phase and daily attitude.


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## Mark Oomkes

framer1901 said:


> Old Dog obviously works somewhere moving all kinds of stuff around and I'd think he'd know what he's doing in the areas he's worked.


Mops and brooms are very heavy...



framer1901 said:


> That flow chart is straight forward to me except in the area that the truck I'm driving is 26k, what trailer can I haul with no CDL. The wording just confuses me which doesn't take much.


I agree...I'm still not positive I understand it correctly. We really need @cretebaby back.



framer1901 said:


> 8 lugs two axles tells them it's 14k soooooo daily attitude along with moon phase could prevail.


I'm not sure it's the "moon phase"...more like their monthly (or is it daily) cycle?

I've been thinking aboot the whole trailer thing...wondering if I should get 1 or 2 derated.


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## Mark Oomkes

Do I need a CDL for this?

Funny thing is, the dealer told me I couldn't test drive it with the front plow mounted because it's overwidth...I have the exact same plow on my F800 and it isn't. Wasn't worth arguing over.

Hopefully it fits under 100th St bridge...


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## NYH1

framer1901 said:


> Old Dog obviously works somewhere moving all kinds of stuff around and I'd think he'd know what he's doing in the areas he's worked. That flow chart is straight forward to me except in the area that the truck I'm driving is 26k, what trailer can I haul with no CDL. The wording just confuses me which doesn't take much.


In NY, you can drive a vehicle up to 26k and tow a trailer up to 10k without needing a CDL. As long as you don't have more then 15 passengers (bus). Or you're not carrying hazardous material. I believe that's the fed regs.



framer1901 said:


> Add to the fact, one MSP Lt told me that even though the trailer is tagged at 10k, 8 lugs two axles tells them it's 14k soooooo daily attitude along with moon phase could prevail.


They go by your registration here. It go's both ways though. If your trailers factory GVWR is 15k and you have registered for 10k and you have 12k on it....you're 2k over weight.

NYH1.


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## Philbilly2

With all of this CDL/ no CDL, I cannot help put throw in a monkey wrench...

I drive a Pete 379 with a 42ft Hopper Bottom... With NO CDL... 

Legally to boot.  How is this...


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## Randall Ave

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do I need a CDL for this?
> 
> Funny thing is, the dealer told me I couldn't test drive it with the front plow mounted because it's overwidth...I have the exact same plow on my F800 and it isn't. Wasn't worth arguing over.
> 
> Hopefully it fits under 100th St bridge...


If we answer the question correct, do we get a free Mookes T shirt? I say she's 32,000.


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## NYH1

Philbilly2 said:


> With all of this CDL/ no CDL, I cannot help put throw in a monkey wrench...
> 
> I drive a Pete 379 with a 42ft Hopper Bottom... With NO CDL...
> 
> Legally to boot.  How is this...


Farm use??

NYH1.


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## Philbilly2

NYH1 said:


> Farm use??
> 
> NYH1.


Correct

A Class License but no CDL.


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## John_DeereGreen

Philbilly2 said:


> With all of this CDL/ no CDL, I cannot help put throw in a monkey wrench...
> 
> I drive a Pete 379 with a 42ft Hopper Bottom... With NO CDL...
> 
> Legally to boot.  How is this...


God damn farmers...get away with everything...

Edit...oops someone beat me to it


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## Philbilly2

John_DeereGreen said:


> God damn farmers...get away with everything...
> 
> Edit...oops someone beat me to it


Just throw a triangle on it...


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## NYH1

Certain governmental employees/volunteers are exempt from needing CDL's as well. My wife can drive any firetruck they have at the fire barn. All they do is department training. She sticks to the small rescue truck (F450 w/utility box) and the ambulances.

***ETA, they may have to stay in their jurisdiction/area of operation and/or be working in order to not have a CDL. I can't remember. 

NYH1.


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## Mark Oomkes

NYH1 said:


> Certain governmental employees/volunteers are exempt from needing CDL's as well. My wife can drive any firetruck they have at the fire barn. All they do is department training. She sticks to the small rescue truck (F450 w/utility box) and the ambulances.
> 
> NYH1.


Scariest and stupidest exemption oot there.

Witnessed guys that have never driven anything larger than a Yugo jump in a 40K truck drive it few times for "training" and then being certified to run lights and sirens.

Absolutely stupid.


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## NYH1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Scariest and stupidest exemption oot there.
> 
> Witnessed guys that have never driven anything larger than a Yugo jump in a 40K truck drive it few times for "training" and then being certified to run lights and sirens.
> 
> Absolutely stupid.


Kinda like the farmer exemption to an extent. As much as I love farmers....ever see some/A LOT of their equipment?

NYH1.


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## Mark Oomkes

NYH1 said:


> Kinda like the farmer exemption to an extent. As much as I love farmers....ever see some/A LOT of their equipment?
> 
> NYH1.


Most around here are running pretty decent equipment...and they've been operating equipment for a good portion of their lives.


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## NYH1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Most around here are running pretty decent equipment...and they've been operating equipment for a good portion of their lives.


Not saying they're all bad. Didn't mean that at all.

However, with the way a lot farmers product prices are mostly set by the government, at least here in New Yorkistan. A lot of them are so strapped for money and will use their equipment until it's broke and beyond. Even if Bobby Booshay's moving company was in the same situation monetarily for the same reasons, he'd have to fix his stuff or the DOT would be all over him.

NYH1.


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## John_DeereGreen

NYH1 said:


> Kinda like the farmer exemption to an extent. As much as I love farmers....ever see some/A LOT of their equipment?
> 
> NYH1.


If I can run a 25k pound tractor with duals all around, and a 20k pound 24 row planter behind it down the road at 30 mph, I'm pretty sure a semi and hopper bottom isn't an issue...


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## Philbilly2

Mark Oomkes said:


> Scariest and stupidest exemption oot there.
> 
> Witnessed guys that have never driven anything larger than a Yugo jump in a 40K truck drive it few times for "training" and then being certified to run lights and sirens.
> 
> Absolutely stupid.


I think these 80+ year old guys driving these giant diesel pushers, pulling trailers are far more scary IMO

Especially since most of them have never driven more than passenger car in their life...


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## Philbilly2

NYH1 said:


> Not saying they're all bad. Didn't mean that at all.
> 
> However, with the way a lot farmers product prices are mostly set by the government, at least here in New Yorkistan. A lot of them are so strapped for money and will use their equipment until it's broke and beyond. Even if Bobby Booshay's moving company was in the same situation monetarily for the same reasons, he'd have to fix his stuff or the DOT would be all over him.
> 
> NYH1.


Yeah... that must just be in your part of New York Tucky...

Even the guys with old equipment around here keep it up.


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## NYH1

John_DeereGreen said:


> If I can run a 25k pound tractor with duals all around, and a 20k pound 24 row planter behind it down the road at 30 mph, I'm pretty sure a semi and hopper bottom isn't an issue...


Most of them might not be. 

NYH1.


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## NYH1

Philbilly2 said:


> Yeah... that must just be in your part of New York Tucky...
> 
> Even the guys with old equipment around here keep it up.


That's good, most do. Just like most that drive governmental vehicles without CDL's drive just fine.

NYH1


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## Mark Oomkes

Philbilly2 said:


> I think these 80+ year old guys driving these giant diesel pushers, pulling trailers are far more scary IMO
> 
> Especially since most of them have never driven more than passenger car in their life...


I wouldn't argue that...


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## 1olddogtwo

A lot of states are making the old fogies and personal RV users get non CDL licenses

California for example if your 5th RV weighs more than 15,000 pounds or over a certain length you have to get a Class A non-commercial.

As far as my history, yea I'm all over the country at times..... Conflicting answers from DOT....you bet.....ive done a couple of DOT class in differant states and I am the administrator of our ELDs..... Let me to tell you the joy of that.


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## Philbilly2

1olddogtwo said:


> Let me to tell you the joy of that.


No thanks... does not sound like much of the making of a "Great Story"


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## 1olddogtwo

I also interpret that Matrix clear as being very clear for the majority. Farming, military, etc as the minority. They're always be exception to rules


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Scariest and stupidest exemption oot there.
> 
> Witnessed guys that have never driven anything larger than a Yugo jump in a 40K truck drive it few times for "training" and then being certified to run lights and sirens.
> 
> Absolutely stupid.


Are you the "guy"??????


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Are you the "guy"??????


Sure...I shoehorned a Cummings into a Yugo.


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## GetMore

Just to add confusion, since the government hasn't made it confusing enough:
(From what I have heard and observed, but not had proven):
If it is for PERSONAL use the CDL laws do not apply.
If it is for a business purpose (or is a business vehicle, regardless of how your are using it at the time) you must comply with DOT and CDL laws.

There are a lot of "hot shot" drivers out there, hauling freight on personal trailers "for a friend" that need not comply with the rules.

So, be careful of some people's advice (mine as well), because some people have situations where they can legally do things that a business operator cannot.

Here, in NY, a vehicle over 26K requires a CDL. A trailer 10K or more requires a class A (possibly unless it is personal). A business pickup rated to 10K or more requires a DOT#, but if it is personal you are okay.


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## John_DeereGreen

GetMore said:


> A trailer 10K or more requires a class A


Please cite the regulation(s) stating this.


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## EWSplow

Dam, I thought it was Thanksgiving, but its groundhog day.


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## MXZ1983

Here


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## BossPlow2010

GetMore said:


> Here, in NY, a vehicle over 26K requires a CDL.


 it's actually 26,001


> *
> A trailer 10K or more requires a class A (possibly unless it is personal).*


*When* the GCVWR is 26,001 or more.

[/QUOTE]

Now that we've settled that, let's talk about that air brake endorsement.... Class "A" for airbreak right


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## John_DeereGreen

MXZ1983 said:


> Here
> 
> View attachment 186548


Correct. Except that's not what he said. He said over 10000# requires class a. Which is incorrect.


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## Randall Ave

BossPlow2010 said:


> it's actually 26,001
> 
> *When* the GCVWR is 26,001 or more.


Now that we've settled that, let's talk about that air brake endorsement.... Class "A" for airbreak right[/QUOTE]
Here we go.


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## Ajlawn1

CDL's are overrated...


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## Mark Oomkes

GetMore said:


> Just to add confusion, since the government hasn't made it confusing enough:
> (From what I have heard and observed, but not had proven):
> If it is for PERSONAL use the CDL laws do not apply.
> If it is for a business purpose (or is a business vehicle, regardless of how your are using it at the time) you must comply with DOT and CDL laws.
> 
> There are a lot of "hot shot" drivers out there, hauling freight on personal trailers "for a friend" that need not comply with the rules.
> 
> So, be careful of some people's advice (mine as well), because some people have situations where they can legally do things that a business operator cannot.
> 
> Here, in NY, a vehicle over 26K requires a CDL. A trailer 10K or more requires a class A (possibly unless it is personal). A business pickup rated to 10K or more requires a DOT#, but if it is personal you are okay.


You need to look up the definition of commercial vehicle.


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## GetMore

Mark Oomkes said:


> You need to look up the definition of commercial vehicle.


I am in New York, where my Silverado 2500HD _must_ be registered with commercial plates, unless I permanently install seats, with seat belts, in the bed. But a Diesel Expedition can have passenger plates.
Matter of fact, I know someone with a Toter-Home with passenger plates. It's a Class A vehicle, with air brakes.

We don't know what is and is not a commercial vehicle here.


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## NYH1

Every pick up truck in New Yorkistan gets commercial plates. Doesn't make it a commercial vehicle. Just the way the emperors do things here.

It's more acceptable to trash talk someone's wife here then it is to talk CDL/DOT stuff. Dem's is fightin wurds. 

NYH1.


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