# Extreme cold, what do you do....



## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Alaska guys probably would laugh, but I'd thought I would ask.

So, this weekend we are probably going to see some records for low temps (-20*F) Sunday night after our 3"-8" storm passes through with 25-35mph wind gusts.

One-

I'm nervous as to how well the equipment will hold up with the extreme temps. My central hydraulics acts up a 10* and lower.

And, I'm thinking about telling my customers that no sidewalks will be shoveled until the temps reach an acceptable level.

What I'm getting at, is this weekend is going to be dangerous. Has anyone dealt with this type of extreme conditions and what did you do?

Please discuss.




.......


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

I will probably just take it slow and easy. My first year with a tractor/blower, I am not sure what to expect. Might even run the tractor to the shop where it's 65, and let it sleep there for the weekend. The F350 stays in the shop for my partner. -6 and the Boss V-XT starts to get sloooow. The Ebling has never seen temps that low. I will still shovel the condo units that need it.


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## SnowFakers (Dec 31, 2012)

Im glad it didn't get too cold while there was still snow to be moved here. I would just take it easy and I would not be getting out of the truck to shovel at -20*F, ill let everyone know I will do them once it warms up to about 0 atleast if not more


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

-6 here tonight should i let the truck idle for a few hours during the cold?


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Take it easy and equipment warm up, you'll be fine.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

SnowGuy73;1706469 said:


> Take it easy and equipment warm up, you'll be fine.


Has not been over 0 degrees out in 2 weeks here, just let everything warm up good.


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## Dlongerman (Nov 6, 2008)

Hey guys not to jack the tread. But at what point do you need to leave your diesel truck running over night? I am worried that with these temperatures that i will not be able to start my truck. I have been running attitive so i am not worried about jelling. But any advice would be helpful.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

beanz27;1706569 said:


> Has not been over 0 degrees out in 2 weeks here, just let everything warm up good.


About the same here, it warmed up to 18 today, high of -16 and a low of -25 on Monday.


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## GMCHD plower (Nov 27, 2009)

Like everyone else said, take it easy, try not to slam everything around, don't be afraid to let equipment run to warm up, or even just to keep it warm/running, dress appropriately, and bring multiples of easy layer.


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## jvm81 (Jan 4, 2005)

There talking 50 to 60 below by me Sunday afternoon thru Monday. No snow for me but in our cold storage area should I plug skids in or just leave them sit. I think it will be office work for me....not taking diesel out of garage at those temps. That's just brutal. We're in wind chill warning starting tomorrow through Tuesday night.


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## goel (Nov 23, 2010)

With the wind last night it was a balmy -29f. Did a quick scrape of the slushy crap and a re salt that the traffic and sun light cleared up everything during the day today.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Dlongerman;1706577 said:


> Hey guys not to jack the tread. But at what point do you need to leave your diesel truck running over night? I am worried that with these temperatures that i will not be able to start my truck. I have been running attitive so i am not worried about jelling. But any advice would be helpful.


Well I have a cover on the front of my 7.3 but I have started it being -27 plugged in no problem.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Dlongerman;1706577 said:


> Hey guys not to jack the tread. But at what point do you need to leave your diesel truck running over night? I am worried that with these temperatures that i will not be able to start my truck. I have been running attitive so i am not worried about jelling. But any advice would be helpful.


Just plug it in. It ain't gunna be that bad this weekend


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## BC Handyman (Dec 15, 2010)

I just had a nice 2 week cold snap(now it's barely freezing) it was around -35c, we just bundle up & stay moving, equipment, just let it warm up, & don't go extra hard with it, it will be fine, you & shovelers though, keep your hats & gloves on & the truck running with the heat on


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

Dlongerman;1706577 said:


> Hey guys not to jack the tread. But at what point do you need to leave your diesel truck running over night? I am worried that with these temperatures that i will not be able to start my truck. I have been running attitive so i am not worried about jelling. But any advice would be helpful.


If you can plug it in you should be ok.

What truck/motor as well? If it's a newer Common Rail style diesel motor it would probably start on it's own but plugging it in won't hurt anything.

I'll probably run a little more fuel additive then I normally do, maybe grab a bottle or two of 911 treatment in case something does gel up. I also keep fuel filters in my cab in the event something gels up I have warm fuel filters to put on it. Also my pickup will stay running the whole time unless it's at home in the heated shop. I'm not afraid to shut it off for an hour or two when it's that cold, it's just that when the truck shuts off so does my heater


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## zlssefi (Dec 29, 2011)

Any equipment with block heaters get plugged in. No need to leave diesels running provided there is a block heater. Gas engines are fine, we have 6 gas trucks and 4 diesels they all started yesterday morning at 0 degrees.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

White Gardens;1706429 said:


> Alaska guys probably would laugh, but I'd thought I would ask.
> 
> So, this weekend we are probably going to see some records for low temps (-20*F) Sunday night after our 3"-8" storm passes through with 25-35mph wind gusts.
> 
> ...


What's your reason/justification for not shoveling the walks?


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

2COR517;1707462 said:


> What's your reason/justification for not shoveling the walks?


Who needs to be outside when its -20 or more? Not to mention its just flat out dangerous for both your workers and clients


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## bhmjwp (Dec 12, 2005)

Just a thought-if its in your service agreement that you do walks, I would certainly do them. Just think, you decide its too cold to get out and do walks, customer falls and hits their head, dies of cold. But judge, it was too cold for me to shovel!


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## jbsplow (Sep 16, 2013)

Lol if u cant handle -20 degree weather maybe you shouldnt be in snow removal. All part of the process... I wouldnt tell anyone i couldnt remove snow for them cause its to cold. Theyll find some one else


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Whiffyspark;1707470 said:


> Who needs to be outside when its -20 or more? Not to mention its just flat out dangerous for both your workers and clients


Power companies, utilities. I call my gas company and tell them my gas is off, oh sorry its to cold to fix your lines. You'll just have to wait till its warmer. 
Ya ok. Put on the big girl panties and deal.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

dieselss;1707555 said:


> Power companies, utilities. I call my gas company and tell them my gas is off, oh sorry its to cold to fix your lines. You'll just have to wait till its warmer.
> Ya ok. Put on the big girl panties and deal.


I'll just sit in my heated truck

Thank god it doesn't under zero here. Hell I refuse to do sidewalks thats what laborers are for lok


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Why cause its to cold?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

jbsplow;1707515 said:


> Lol if u cant handle -20 degree weather maybe you shouldnt be in snow removal. All part of the process... I wouldnt tell anyone i couldnt remove snow for them cause its to cold. Theyll find some one else


Phew, I'm not the only one that thinks this way.....


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## dcamp824 (Dec 21, 2009)

2COR517;1708589 said:


> Phew, I'm not the only one that thinks this way.....


Not at all.. i've never heard of such a thing.. it just snowed for 3 days straight ending yesterday it was below zero degrees the whole time. Had no equip problems and our guys did walks for days and would go for 3 more if it kept snowing. It's been so cold salt was freezing solid in our hoppers faster then we could spread it.


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## goel (Nov 23, 2010)

Lol. Gas company. 

Ha, I told the damn shoppers at the mall To screw off it was tooooo cold to shop. 

Well, at -29 they still showed up so the walks all had to be done.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

2COR517;1707462 said:


> What's your reason/justification for not shoveling the walks?


Because it will be the middle of the night and there will be 30mph winds.

Wind Chills and exposure is what I'm concerned about.

The walks will get done, just not that very moment we plow the drives until conditions improve enough to where I feel it's safe for me or my guys to be out of the truck. Which will be about 12 hours after we plow at the most.

Commercial accounts will get done before they open, or at least the main walks that are the high traffic areas.

You guys can talk about sucking it up and what not, but I'm not risking the lives or limbs of anyone who works with me.

.......


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## Joe D (Oct 2, 2005)

White Gardens;1709632 said:


> Because it will be the middle of the night and there will be 30mph winds.
> 
> Wind Chills and exposure is what I'm concerned about.
> 
> ...


Your not going to die out there. Dress appropriately and do warm up breaks. 
When i do outside work in extreme temps i keep the van running the whole time with the heat on, multiple glove and jackets in the van and switch them out as needed if they get wet. Just sitting in the van for 10 minutes as needed and swapping out my gloves will keep me going for as long as I can stay awake.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

dieselss;1706898 said:


> Just plug it in. It ain't gunna be that bad this weekend


Yup... My Air charge heater doesn't even come on when I'm plugged in, and saturday night was 2* F. Truck started right up


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

goel;1708772 said:


> Well, at -29 they still showed up so the walks all had to be done.


I knew a girl named Toni that was born and raised in Canada. She went to the same JR college I was attending back in the 1980's. She loved the cold, and the colder the better. She was about 5'-2" tall, about 115 lbs and could easily out drink anyone, I mean ANYONE that I've ever known.

Her childhood encompassed liquid fuel (booze) in the family meals. The kids were encouraged to drink wine or beer with their meals. Yeah, I know. This sounds wacky, right ? That's what I thought. Anyway, after years of moderate drinking, she would down an entire case of beer at a party, and still function. 
Me ? After a 6 pack, I was no longer able to drive (although I did from time to time).

I thought all Canadians drank constantly, you know like the Irish. Oh well, I guess I was misinformed, and un educated in the ways of the world ..... back then..


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## FurFishGame (Jul 21, 2013)

if its -20 with a 30 mph wind, even us alaskans will put it off if we can... never more then a day.. How long will it be that cold? 

trucks will be fine, tell your shovelers to warm up as they need.. dont ride them, let them do what they need to stay warm and safe...


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## Diesel Dan (Sep 8, 2012)

Dlongerman;1706577 said:


> I am worried that with these temperatures that i will not be able to start my truck..


Trade for a chevy


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

The storm we had this past Thursday/Friday, which ended up totaling 20-24 inches, was extreme cold. I've never actually felt weather that cold, or seen snow in sub zero temps.. 

Anyways, it presented a few challenges that us New Englander's aren't always accustomed to (our storms tend to occur in 22-32F degree weather). All but two were avoidable, stupid mistakes on our part. 

The first was return springs on the Vplows breaking. These are a somewhat common item when running a number of units with several years on them. I should have known that with the extreme tempatures and brittle steel, one would break. I usually have back ups, but did not think about it this storm.. 

The next was fuel gelling. Never had this issue before (besides when someone vandalized my equipment by adding water to the fuel), so treating fuel is not something I always think about. The winter blend has been enough for the last 10 years, and I've also never had a fuel/water separating filter on any of our transfer tanks (another crazy mistake I never considered). After some 911 and Power Service treatments, this was taken care of. But I got the last 3 bottles I could find for sale locally at the time...

Of course, like most people, salt was completely ineffective. I know Magic salt, or other treated varieties will work fine in these situations, however my customers don't want to pay for that and I won't be paying for it either. At this point all my commercial accounts (no longer the majority of my business) is per service or hourly, and per application on salt. That said, the last thing I want is a more effective, longer lasting residual salt product. The next day the sun came out and started doing work on it.

The other issue was with emissions equipment on our Kubotas. We had an issue where a few specific items froze up causing the engine oil to begin evacuating the crankcase under pressure. Had the mobile service truck from the dealer out, and I learned quite a bit about emissions on my 7040 fleet in extreme cold weather, got up and running again in 45 mins after it was all bypassed.


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## BossPlowMaster (Aug 10, 2013)

jbsplow;1707515 said:


> Lol if u cant handle -20 degree weather maybe you shouldnt be in snow removal. All part of the process... I wouldnt tell anyone i couldnt remove snow for them cause its to cold. Theyll find some one else


 It is stupid to be outside in that temp...is having frostbitten fingers to deal with for the rest of your life really worth being outside in -20f temps? No I don't think so. All of my contracts I state that NO one from my company will be outside with below 0 temps.... People can wait till it warms up.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

BossPlowMaster;1712319 said:


> It is stupid to be outside in that temp...is having frostbitten fingers to deal with for the rest of your life really worth being outside in -20f temps? No I don't think so. All of my contracts I state that NO one from my company will be outside with below 0 temps.... People can wait till it warms up.


It is stupid to be outside in that temp...is having frostbitten fingers to deal with for the rest of your life really worth being outside in -20f temps? No I don't think so. All of my contracts I state that NO one from my company will be outside with below 0 temps.... People can wait till it warms up

NOTE TO SELF.... CYAN Sucks to read on a computer....


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

I hope you diesel guys are using plenty of anti-gel!


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## BossPlowMaster (Aug 10, 2013)

Dogplow Dodge;1712328 said:


> NOTE TO SELF.... CYAN Sucks to read on a computer....


HA I discovered this after I submitted the reply !


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## Billious (Sep 21, 2010)

Whiffyspark;1707470 said:


> Who needs to be outside when its -20 or more? Not to mention its just flat out dangerous for both your workers and clients


Here in Madison, property owners have 24 hours after the end of a snowfall to get their sidewalks cleared edge-to-edge, down to pavement. After that, tickets start getting sent out. If I had sold my services as a professional contractor to a client, and yet they still got ticketed - how would that reflect on me?

I've heard it said before that we provide an "emergency service" on other threads, as a justification for charging the rates necessary to stay in business. That cuts both ways, we need to be there for our customers even in the extreme temps many of us are experiencing.

The ones I feel real bad for are the guys out dealing with broken water mains. Can you imaging being out there, exposed, digging up a road and patching up a water pipe? Screw all of that noise.


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## Billious (Sep 21, 2010)

dieselss;1707555 said:


> Power companies, utilities. I call my gas company and tell them my gas is off, oh sorry its to cold to fix your lines. You'll just have to wait till its warmer.
> Ya ok. Put on the big girl panties and deal.


Pretty much exactly what this company did to these homeowners...

http://www.channel3000.com/news/ver...no-heat/-/1648/23802526/-/df7phu/-/index.html


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## ByDesign (Sep 2, 2011)

Dress for the weather. We get pleantly of days with negative temps, never had an issue with frostbite while working. Really if you can't be out in sub-zero temps, you shouldn't be in this business.


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## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

Billious;1713446 said:


> Pretty much exactly what this company did to these homeowners...
> 
> http://www.channel3000.com/news/ver...no-heat/-/1648/23802526/-/df7phu/-/index.html


I grew up in the 50s and 60s. This type weather was not unusual even in north central Indiana. No one would be left high and dry like this back then. These business today don't seem to care anymore about the welfare of their customers.


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## Dodgedzlr (Sep 9, 2010)

*Good Post*

Hello White, Great post and all good questions and answers. Im in Peoria and we should talk sometime. I wanted to respond to your question because I think it is an important one to address. Currently Im working for a large Grounds company hear in Peoria. My position is part operations manager part fill in where needed guy. I have my CDL and I drive a Kenworth grain hauler in the off season. I was in search an rescue in the Navy and was trained in Cold weather survival. I have my A&P license and I know the importance and how to maintain equipment in the coldest of temperatures. 
This thread started to go two ways and I wanted to jump in and give my two sense. We have 5 sidewalk crews and for the most part they are good workers. However, as much as we try to encourage them to go out and buy decent foul weather gear they really dont listen to what we tell them. Also, the write gear is expensive and some of them are on tight budgets. They know what they signed up for and have been given fair warning about what they should wear but we cant make them buy it. We tell them to take there time, keep the vehicle running, switch out gloves, hats, socks. 
In the Military there is a saying. Cotton Kills. They should be wearing Wool Socks, Insulated boots not leather work boots. A polar fleece hat not a cotton stocking cap, mittens preferably but gloves are usually the prefered choice with Thinsulate and goretex. Polar fleece neck Gator works great. We have 3 boxes of the Heet packs that they ENCOURAGED to take with them and put in there gloves and boots. Long underwear and a pair of Insulated pants for $19 at menards can keep you warm. The outerlayer a pair of Arctic quilt bibs (the black ones) can keep a person toasty warm. Polarfleece Baclava with clear lens ski goggles and a warm jacket with 2 or 3 layers underneath. Remembering, COTTON KILLS, meaning the first layer should be an under armor or equivalent shirt that whisks moisture away. Merino wool sweater ( they are not itchy) a medium to heavy down vest or jacket and then an outer jacket. Nobody wants to be feeling or looking like the stay puff marshmellow man when they are working and have there movement restricted. If someone is running a snowblower having a snowmobile helmet on is priceless. Now with that said, I know a lot of the guys are not going to show up dressed that way. The owner of my company and I have been talking about putting a clause in the contracts that would state that -10 below we would have the walks cleaned within 24 hours etc, etc. Not sure on the wording or if we will do it yet. We sent our guys out in this last event without any problems. In my opinion some of them were poorly dressed and they spent a lot of time in the van warming up. I have been thinking about somehow incentivising them or even buying some bibs and lending them out during the event. The Insulated Muck Boots are a good purchase. In the back of my head Im thinking if we dont do the walks in a timely manner someone else will come in and scoop the business and then I go through the should a, could a, would of scenarios. As an example we had a day labor show up in Jeans, very nice gloves a hat and tennis shoes. I seen how hard he worked on the last snow event but there is NO way we were going to let him go out this time. If I had the stuff for him I would of given it to him to wear. He can run circles around the other guys. With that said, we have guys coming back to the shop with stained green or blue hands. They have sub zero gloves they can wear to break up the clumps in the spreaders. Instead, they take there bare hands and dig around in the spreaders. I guess bottom line for us we decided that we made a commitment to the client and we were going to hold true to our word. We did notice that this time we had to go back and do more clean up and or do an initial clear. Our theory is some of the guys were doing a slap dash job because they wanted to get out of the cold. Obviously, that was not cost effective. Also, the long hours and Fatigue are factors. So we are still talking about what we can do to streamline things.

Keeping the equipment in working order is a challenge. From my training and experience working on aircraft has come in handy. Im a big proponent of Synthetic Oils. Aircraft can go from 100 deg temp on the Tarmac to -35 below at altitude in a matter of 20 to 30 minutes. And, the flight controls have to stay functional for obvious reasons. Cold weather Pre-emptive maintenance and the correct oils are essential to decreased break downs. No#1 Diesel fuel if available in your area will just about eliminate any gelling. New fuel filters in the late fall can only help the cause. 1 gallon of Kerosene to 20 gallons of no #2 diesel also works. 911 or sea foam works good. There are others on the market that Im sure work also. Wiping your hydraulic cylinders down with the plow pump oil is Great preventive maintenance for a whole host of reasons. Cycle your blade left and right about 7 to 10 times before you leave the shop is very wise. Put your truck in Neutral if its an automatic for a couple minutes helps cycle the tranny fluid. If you think your glow plugs are a little weak or the batteries may not be up to speed put a battery tender on. If you have a block heater plug it in. If you have a gas vehicle and want a sure start and a warm vehicle out of the gate have a block heater installed. Take a 2 inch pink styrofoam board with aluminum foil glued to one side facing the oil pan. Slide it underneath the truck. The radiant heat from the block heater warms the cement, why not let it reflect back onto the engine compartment. Anywhoo, great comments and statements on here and I always enjoy gleaning information on theses forums. Hope everyones business is doing well and all are in good health. Including your equipment.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

our contracts say we reserve the right (on residentials) at our discretion to asses and possibly postpone hand service anytime we get under -40C (-40F) depending on conditions. Calm day and just cold, we will be out. Nasty blizzard, our equipment goes out and our high priority contracts get done (doctors offices and banks etc) but residentials will wait. Customers can phone in if they have a emergency and we will have guys on standby, but when temps get so cold that any exposed flesh runs a risk of freezing I would rather error on the side of caution. I have never had a complaint about this policy either.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

We dress warm layers of clothing that cold didn't bother are bodies but did freeze up the 418 blowers. We had to sit them inside the truck to thaw them out between jobs. I like this cold weather. The lots freeze dried and are 6''+ drift snow cleaned up nice and what was left the wind blew it away. 

This cold snap wasn't nothing like we had in 1996 almost 2 weeks of it


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