# Well guys whats it worth



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

Salt included. Sidewalks included. pile on the west (left side) at the end of the lot. Curious as I think I might be crazy after the Lowes thread. I have plowed this lot for 20 years.


----------



## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

did you take that air shot from your private jet? 

thats a lot of pizza coupons :laughing:

so you have been plowing for 20 years.... thats something to be proud of I commend you on that. I have had a computer store for almost 12 years, and I think of the stuff back from day 1 and wow things have changed.


----------



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

MIDTOWNPC;830238 said:


> did you take that air shot from your private jet?
> 
> thats a lot of pizza coupons :laughing:
> 
> so you have been plowing for 20 years.... thats something to be proud of I commend you on that. I have had a computer store for almost 12 years, and I think of the stuff back from day 1 and wow things have changed.


LOL...No I am sorry its Google Earth. Private Jet? Sorry just economy discount flights for this Canuck!! I have actually been in the snow clearing business since 1970. Technology and prices always change. It is a fast paced world even in snow plowing. Wanna send me some of those pizza coupons? Free dinner sounds good.

Any thoughts on what that job is worth?


----------



## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

honestly its very hard for me to even see how many parking spots there are. 

google earth should give you a better pic then that.

did you try the print screen and then paste into paint?
cause it kinda looks like you printed it and then highlighted it and scanned it.


----------



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

MIDTOWNPC;830443 said:


> honestly its very hard for me to even see how many parking spots there are.
> 
> google earth should give you a better pic then that.
> 
> ...


 The total area of parking is about 6 acres. High end spec(same as a shopping mall) plus the roadways and entrances. The key is the piling has to be on the lower left of the diagram...every flake! They use every available parking space on weekdays.

And your right I did mess around and scan it and stuff. Now that I am home I will try and take a better run at here in a little bit.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

The pic is really bad and I've only plowed for 18 years and my dad has plowed commercially since the late 60's. I'm guessing around 70k. Am I even close?


----------



## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

Ya it should be up there somewhere near your estimate JD , be a lot less if the snow didnt have to travel so far. Up here it would go for around 50 or 60 K


----------



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

JD Dave;830522 said:


> The pic is really bad and I've only plowed for 18 years and my dad has plowed commercially since the late 60's. I'm guessing around 70k. Am I even close?


Yep you guys are in the neighborhood of what maket is. Thanks for answering. After discussing the $17, 500 Lowes store (salt and ice melter included) that I thought was worth a whole lot more I wanted to see if I was crazy or Plowsite was crazy? Thank you for restoring my mind and proving to me that there all still sane contractors in the world. tymusic


----------



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

JD Dave;830522 said:


> The pic is really bad and I've only plowed for 18 years and my dad has plowed commercially since the late 60's. I'm guessing around 70k. Am I even close?


I think your father and I share a mutual friend in Marshall Townsend?


----------



## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

this is way out of my league but ill stab at a few things first.

4400 lbs of salt 30 salt events? I dont know how rates discount on this size of a lot... I would think you would get $350 a ton spread? so $21 000
small tractor on sidewalks, 2 men shoveling blowers and salting walks
2 tractors or loaders with 12 ft boxes, 2 trucks. 3 hours because of where the snow has to end up. that looks like 1 long push for the loader to the end pile.

25 pushes?

I would come up with $2145 per push... 
$53 625 for plowing and $21 000 for salt. sounds to me like the salt is cheap usually everything I have ever prices the salt is almost the same as the plowing, but in this case because of the time involved to move the snow to the destination single pile I think its justified. 


I have never bid on anything over 2 acres.


----------



## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

k i just crunched numbers for like 45 mins with my dog chewing a bone, posted and refreshed the page to find dave here answers the double jepordy and gets the contract and i didnt even get to take the guy out for lunch yet. guess thats what its like in the real world... early bird gets the worm


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

DellDoug;830603 said:


> I think your father and I share a mutual friend in Marshall Townsend?


You would be correct. Your a very nice addition to the site, you are very well spoken. I'm not so sure about market price anymore, it seems there are alot of people around now that like to do stuff extremely cheap and not offer proper service.


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

So you're coming in around $11G an acre. The Lowes job is $9G an acre (if it's only 80K). And I'm guessing you would have more events per season.


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

2COR517;830813 said:


> So you're coming in around $11G an acre. The Lowes job is $9G an acre (if it's only 80K). And I'm guessing you would have more events per season.


Total area for a Lowes is more then 2 acres. Around back is close to that size and untill I see it on Google Earth or someone tells me they measured it I will not beleive it.


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

That's why I said if........


----------



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

JD Dave;830805 said:


> You would be correct. Your a very nice addition to the site, you are very well spoken. I'm not so sure about market price anymore, it seems there are alot of people around now that like to do stuff extremely cheap and not offer proper service.


 Well thank you. I am enjoying plowsite and learning other peoples opinions. It can be enlightening. The key is to find the customers that have to have the service at a high level. They will pay what the job is worth. But you already know that. 

Some guys though just don't look at the complexity of a job. Size is a factor but demands and obsticals = time...time = money. Add the greater demand of a retail location (due to liability) IMHO is worth quite a bit more then 9K/acre (full of poles islands and other hazzards, customer service calls, etc....) here in Toronto.JMHO


----------



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

2COR517;830813 said:


> So you're coming in around $11G an acre. The Lowes job is $9G an acre (if it's only 80K). And I'm guessing you would have more events per season.


 For an open parking lot with no islands, shopping carts, or people in it after hours. I guess I am somewhere in that range. I don't know on events...I would be between 40-45 events. But looking at the Google pics from the the oher thread it sure looks a whole lot bigger then 2 acres to me. I never scene a Lowes lot that small. ever!


----------



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

MIDTOWNPC;830629 said:


> this is way out of my league but ill stab at a few things first.
> 
> 4400 lbs of salt 30 salt events? I dont know how rates discount on this size of a lot... I would think you would get $350 a ton spread? so $21 000
> small tractor on sidewalks, 2 men shoveling blowers and salting walks
> ...


That is a very interesting way to calculate the price. I have never looked at it in that respect. Thanks for the insight. Your a bit high but not by a whole lot. Thanks Doug


----------



## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

2 - loaders at $175 / hour 
2 - trucks at $100 / hour
1 - small tractor $85 / hour
2 - sidewalk guys $45 / hour

my teacher use to say show your work.... so thats how I got there.


If the snow didnt have to go in that pile I would think you could drop a loader or 
drop both trucks and have a skid.


is their anything wrong with pricing it this way? the salt discount on large volume I am curious on.


----------



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

MIDTOWNPC;830880 said:


> 2 - loaders at $175 / hour
> 2 - trucks at $100 / hour
> 1 - small tractor $85 / hour
> 2 - sidewalk guys $45 / hour
> ...


 Lets just say that after many years of working out the details we do the whole place in 6 hours with one loader and three attatchments. Salt discounts are incorporated through volume to various local locations for reduced trucking rates and labour costs as well as pre-buy for the season prices (we pre-buy about 6000 tonnes). What is amazing is how close you got the proper number. As far as one machine goes remember our discussion about technology? Its an amazing thing.....Remember you always have to make money or its not worth doing! Innovation is your best friend.


----------



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

MIDTOWNPC;830629 said:


> 3 hours because of where the snow has to end up. that looks like 1 long push for the loader to the end pile.
> 
> .


Big expensive (to me anyway) machine with different attatchments. Not a cheap proposition but streamlining makes money. Its hp and weight to move that snow down there.


----------



## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

I figured the one thing however was that being a high end retail you would have to have the puppy cleared within 4 hours tops on your biggest storm. 

how do you do the sidewalks with a loader?


6000 tons... wow

you probably spill more on the ground then I use. last year I think I spread 40 ton thru my tornado, and 40 of salt/sand mix. 


and your exactly right, on seasonal pricing its to your best advantage to buy better more effecient equipment. thats why I ordered the ebling.... for what I can do at the loading docks with it, I dont need to have the skid there, and thats a $7000 blade vs a $40 000 machine. I still have the skid, but it can be out earning somewhere else.


----------



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

We had Horst build a custom attatchment that fits the QA loader. Kind of like an extendabed plow. Moves with hydralic power from the third valve. Anyhow it gets them done. 

6 hours is plowed relocated and salted. If we are in a hurry it can be plowed in 4 but in 5.5-6hrs(on 30cm) its absolutely perfect. In 6 hrs no matter what its done. We have moved 50-60cm in there sometimes due to lake effect.

The salt...I wish it was less but that is what we need and with salt shortage problems we have to pre-buy. It sounds great but it actually sucks because you have to pay for it upfront and store the crap. That hurts like hell!! payup


----------



## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

MIDTOWNPC;830913 said:


> and your exactly right, on seasonal pricing its to your best advantage to buy better more effecient equipment. thats why I ordered the ebling.... for what I can do at the loading docks with it, I dont need to have the skid there, and thats a $7000 blade vs a $40 000 machine. I still have the skid, but it can be out earning somewhere else.


You got the idea. Good luck. tymusic


----------



## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

paying up front for your salt just ups the ante at the table and weeds out alot of the competition. thats good for you... dont look at it bad. 

sir that will be $600 000 in salt... do you guys have airmiles?


----------



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

DellDoug;830851 said:


> The key is to find the customers that have to have the service at a high level. They will pay what the job is worth. But you already know that.
> 
> Some guys though just don't look at the complexity of a job. Size is a factor but demands and obsticals = time...time = money. Add the greater demand of a retail location (due to liability) IMHO is worth quite a bit more then 9K/acre (full of poles islands and other hazzards, customer service calls, etc....) here in Toronto.JMHO


Well said Doug.


----------

