# Salt Shortage 2018



## Luther

Not that this is news for most of us contractors, but at least the local news is picking up on it now and televising it for the local masses. This helps get the word out.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/metro-detroit-businesses-face-critical-salt-shortage

As implied on this segment, it won't be a surprise to see theft of the product on the rise. I remember the first real shortage 10 years ago and getting a phone call from a "Midnight Rider" who somehow was getting his hands on train loads of bulk and wanted "cash" for it. The other stipulation was to take delivery of it at midnight. What a P.O.S. he was.


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## cwren2472

Luther said:


> As implied on this segment, it won't be a surprise to see theft of the product on the rise.


Oh, great, Mark is probably laying a minefield around his stash as we speak

On a more serious note, how wide spread is this shortage? Is it a Meatchicken only thing or nationwide?


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## Ajlawn1

Luther said:


> and getting a phone call from a "Midnight Rider" who somehow was getting his hands on train loads of bulk and wanted "cash" for it. The other stipulation was to take delivery of it at midnight. What a P.O.S. he was.


Any chance you still have his number...


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## BossPlow2010

cwren2472 said:


> Oh, great, Mark is probably laying a minefield around his stash as we speak
> 
> On a more serious note, how wide spread is this shortage? Is it a Meatchicken only thing or nationwide?


I believe it's more regional, midwestern and northern states.

That 12 week Canadian salt mine strike probably didn't help


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## cwren2472

BossPlow2010 said:


> I believe it's more regional, midwestern and northern states.
> 
> That 12 week Canadian salt mine strike probably didn't help


Ah, figures that CANADIANS are to blame


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## BossPlow2010

cwren2472 said:


> Ah, figures that CANADIANS are to blame


Actually I think those salt mine workers are union too


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## DeVries

Its not us Canadians, its their U.S union run companies


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## Defcon 5

It’s more Yard Monkey knowledge being thrown about in this thread....You fellas keep mowing for $20 an acre and blame the Unions for you woes


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## BossPlow2010

Defcon 5 said:


> It's more Yard Monkey knowledge being thrown about in this thread....You fellas keep mowing for $20 an acre and blame the Unions for you woes


I'm not blaming anyone, I'm sure many parties contributed. I value your input still


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> Oh, great, Mark is probably laying a minefield around his stash as we speak
> 
> On a more serious note, how wide spread is this shortage? Is it a Meatchicken only thing or nationwide?


Probably???

Who in their right mind would have waited this long for the mines to be installed?


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## Mark Oomkes

BossPlow2010 said:


> I'm not blaming anyone, I'm sure many parties contributed. I value your input still


Party of 1...


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## Mr.Markus

Defcon 5 said:


> It's more Yard Monkey knowledge being thrown about in this thread....You fellas keep mowing for $20 an acre and blame the Unions for you woes


Nothing wrong with $20/acre if you're doing 6 acres an hour...


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## Ajlawn1

Mr.Markus said:


> Nothing wrong with $20/acre if you're doing 6 acres an hour...


Oh Lord... wait for it...


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## BossPlow2010

Mr.Markus said:


> Nothing wrong with $20/acre if you're doing 6 acres an hour...


If you become more efficient, do you tell the customer and charge less


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## Defcon 5

BossPlow2010 said:


> If you become more efficient, do you tell the customer and charge less


He's Canadian....What do you think the answer is?


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> He's Canadian....What do you think the answer is?


Eh?


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## Defcon 5




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## Ajlawn1

BossPlow2010 said:


> If you become more efficient, do you tell the customer and charge less


Nope you go to your union steward and tell them you need a raise and more days off... Don't want to work yourself out of a job...


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## Mr.Markus

BossPlow2010 said:


> If you become more efficient, do you tell the customer and charge less


I do if it's work I'm taking from you...


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## Randall Ave

Mr.Markus said:


> Nothing wrong with $20/acre if you're doing 6 acres an hour...[/QUOTE
> And that's what in our currency?


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## Randall Ave

Don't know how I did that.


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## extremepusher

Rumors there are 2 freighters heading from China to Detroit with 100,000 tons of salt..


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## LapeerLandscape

Currency is the same but their acres are smaller.


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## Mike_PS

let's keep the discussion going and stop with the uncalled for cracks at one another


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## Defcon 5

extremepusher said:


> Rumors there are 2 freighters heading from China to Detroit with 100,000 tons of salt..


2 Freighters with 100k Tonnes????....That's a bit much to fit on 2 Freighters


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## On a Call

extremepusher said:


> Rumors there are 2 freighters heading from China to Detroit with 100,000 tons of salt..


Chinese salt...how did they figure out how to make salt out of lead ?
At least that will help...How much came from there last season ?


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## Mark Oomkes

Trump will tax that salt. 

And what kind of poison does Chinese salt contain?


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## Mark Oomkes

Big pile in Alpena...


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## Defcon 5

That’s a big pile????.....Are you Sure??


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## fireside

extremepusher said:


> Rumors there are 2 freighters heading from China to Detroit with 100,000 tons of salt..


Ships that come into new haven have 40,000 tons and the ocean barges have 5000 to 8000 depends on barge. I sure hope it's not China salt. Three years ago they got so Asian salt in new haven it was horrible to be nice.


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## On a Call

Mark Oomkes said:


> Big pile in Alpena...


They are hording it up there till the price goes x's 4

Alpena found a loop hole and ordered China salt


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## On a Call

fireside said:


> Ships that come into new haven have 40,000 tons and the ocean barges have 5000 to 8000 depends on barge. I sure hope it's not China salt. Three years ago they got so Asian salt in new haven it was horrible to be nice.


Was it poison too ?


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## Defcon 5

Guy on Facebook looking for a 1000+ Tons....I think it’s gonna be an interesting winter...A lot of guys are just waking up to realizing they are screwed


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Guy on Facebook looking for a 1000+ Tons....I think it's gonna be an interesting winter...A lot of guys are just waking up to realizing they are screwed


You're on BookFace???


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> You're on BookFace???


No....My daughter showed me


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> No....My daughter showed me


SureKWhatever


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## LapeerLandscape

Defcon 5 said:


> No....My daughter showed me


Is she a member on michigan gravel train.


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## On a Call

I thought it was a lie....

You guys told me it was a lie last winter...

But...should you believe the lie ????


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## BossPlow2010

LapeerLandscape said:


> Is she a member on michigan gravel train.


Pretty hard to get in that group, been waiting for like two months


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## Defcon 5

LapeerLandscape said:


> Is she a member on michigan gravel train.


Yes....Her screen name is Back Door Hank


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## On a Call

So why is it...?
In the last 20 years I seem to remember about 4 - 5 shortages...then we have a mild year or two and there is a surplus and salt can be had for 38 a ton.
I guess I understand my question of why....but it seems to repeat itself.

Does supply not keep up with demand ?

And who is Hank ?


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## DeVries

Armed guards now at the docks in Montreal. This is getting a little crazy.

https://amp-clickondetroit-com.cdn....etroit-businesses-face-critical-salt-shortage


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## Ajlawn1

DeVries said:


> Armed guards now at the docks in Montreal.


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## BossPlow2010

Ajlawn1 said:


>


I was going to make a super troopers commment, but since the second one sucked I decided not to


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## On a Call

My cat could offer better protection


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## Mark Oomkes

DeVries said:


> Armed guards now at the docks in Montreal. This is getting a little crazy.


Minefields are cheaper...no recurring labor costs.


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## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> Minefields are cheaper...no recurring labor costs.


Except for the occasional mop up of invaders


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> Except for the occasional mop up of invaders


That's what the salt loader is for.


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## On a Call

Mark Oomkes said:


> That's what the salt loader is for.


And here I thought you used/hired buzzards


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## FredG

DeVries said:


> Armed guards now at the docks in Montreal. This is getting a little crazy.
> 
> https://amp-clickondetroit-com.cdn....etroit-businesses-face-critical-salt-shortage


 Wow, Looks like rock salt might make the black market, unreal. No wonder there is all this talk about liquid.


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## On a Call

It has been on that market since last year.
At least I had heard it was. No questions asked...cash only.


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## Mark Oomkes

FredG said:


> Wow, Looks like rock salt might make the black market, unreal. No wonder there is all this talk about liquid.


Fireball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## FredG

Mark Oomkes said:


> Fireball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 Then you would have to have armed guards, unless you were Randy and could mix in with the thieves enjoying the fireball. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## cwren2472

Somewhere near Detroit...


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## LapeerLandscape

We have a friend/customer that does lawn and snow and their property backs up to the county garage's property. The county garage's salt barn is 700' from his property line and I was wondering how much a tunnel and conveyor would cost.


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## cwren2472

LapeerLandscape said:


> We have a friend/customer that does lawn and snow and their property backs up to the county garage's property. The county garage's salt barn is 700' from his property line and I was wondering how much a tunnel and conveyor would cost.


Is there any property available adjacent to Mark's? Asking for a friend.


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> Is there any property available adjacent to Mark's? Asking for a friend.


Concrete "walls" are down 50' and I have seismic monitors in place.


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## cwren2472

Mark Oomkes said:


> Concrete "walls" are down 50' and I have seismic monitors in place.


Pfft. Looks like I could walk right in with my 5 gallon bucket.


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## Mark Oomkes

cwren2472 said:


> Pfft. Looks like I could walk right in with my 5 gallon bucket.
> 
> View attachment 183682


You could walk right in...can you walk right out is the question.


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## LapeerLandscape

cwren2472 said:


> Pfft. Looks like I could walk right in with my 5 gallon bucket.
> 
> View attachment 183682


What you cant see is the motion sensor AR15's located around the property.


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## cwren2472

LapeerLandscape said:


> What you cant see is the motion sensor AR15's located around the property.


And hungry bears, too, I suppose.


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## Mark Oomkes

LapeerLandscape said:


> What you cant see is the motion sensor AR15's located around the property.


AR15's? Not enough knock down power. Twin .50s are much more effective.


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## LapeerLandscape

Mark Oomkes said:


> AR15's? Not enough knock down power. Twin .50s are much more effective.


Forget the salt I'm coming to get the 50s.


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## Mark Oomkes

LapeerLandscape said:


> Forget the salt I'm coming to get the 50s.


Good luck!


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## lawnboy

Wait till all the guys that dont know yet and are bidding sites based on last years pricing. I bet there will be some calls in December from new customers that say their current guy cant get salt...... Sure am glad I locked in early this year.


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## LapeerLandscape

Or what if its a really light begining to the winter and the guys that bought 5000 ton to resell thinking they are going to make a killing start to panic.


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## BossPlow2010

lawnboy said:


> Sure am glad I locked in early this year.


Tell that to the guys that did it last year and after some black
Magic, their salt ended up in the hands of the muni's and state.


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## Ajlawn1

BossPlow2010 said:


> Tell that to the guys that did it last year and after some black
> Magic, their salt ended up in the hands of the muni's and state.


If it's not in your possession consider your "reserved" salt still up for sale...


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## Mark Oomkes

Ajlawn1 said:


> If it's not in your possession consider your "reserved" salt still up for sale...


This


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## BossPlow2010

Ajlawn1 said:


> If it's not in your possession consider your "reserved" salt still up for sale...


I was vague in my wording, but that's what I was getting at.

Ya ya I know surekwhatever :waving:


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## Defcon 5

cwren2472 said:


> Pfft. Looks like I could walk right in with my 5 gallon bucket.
> 
> View attachment 183682


I find this creepy....I expect this out of the tick from Indiana..But You??


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## Ajlawn1




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## lawnboy

Ajlawn1 said:


> If it's not in your possession consider your "reserved" salt still up for sale...


True I've had that happen in past years. We had to pay upfront this year though.


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## John_DeereGreen

lawnboy said:


> True I've had that happen in past years. We had to pay upfront this year though.


If it's not in your bin, it's not your salt yet. There are so many "out's" that's suppliers have its not funny. Prepaid, allotment, contact agreement, whatever you call it, they all have outs. Namely, if the state or any municipalities order salt, they get it first. You get second priority.


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## lawnboy

Problem iss I can't store 2500 in my bin. Gonna definitely have more here than I ever have had so I at least have time.



John_DeereGreen said:


> If it's not in your bin, it's not your salt yet. There are so many "out's" that's suppliers have its not funny. Prepaid, allotment, contact agreement, whatever you call it, they all have outs. Namely, if the state or any municipalities order salt, they get it first. You get second priority.


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## Defcon 5

Ajlawn1 said:


>


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## Defcon 5

lawnboy said:


> True I've had that happen in past years. We had to pay upfront this year though.


Plenty of company's around here last year that paid up front and did not receive all of their salt...They received a refund in Do time....If you paid up front I suggest you get that salt now...A bunch of concrete blocks and a trip to Menards for as many blue tarps as you can find would be in order


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> If it's not in your bin, it's not your salt yet.


I'm pretty sure Aj said that already.


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## lawnboy

Defcon 5 said:


> Plenty of company's around here last year that paid up front and did not receive all of their salt...They received a refund in Do time....If you paid up front I suggest you get that salt now...A bunch of concrete blocks and a trip to Menards for as many blue tarps as you can find would be in order


Probably a good idea. Gonna schedule some deliveries soon. Am I wrong for liking the fresh stuff better


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## DeVries

First two loads today


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm pretty sure Aj said that already.


Yes, but it didn't appear that the other poster quite understood it...


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## Luther

LapeerLandscape said:


> Or what if its a really light begining to the winter and the guys that bought 5000 ton to resell thinking they are going to make a killing start to panic.


Let's hope they not only panic, but choke on it and have to eat it because of their greed. Unless they're an honest and bonifide broker to the private market (not a trucking company, another contractor or individual) these people are part of the problem, not the solution. They might thump their chest claiming their helping, but all they're doing is purposely driving the price higher for a quick profit. None of us need or want their kind of "help".


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## m_ice

lawnboy said:


> Probably a good idea. Gonna schedule some deliveries soon. Am I wrong for liking the fresh stuff better


How fresh is nothing?

And how do you get them to cover it at the port for you?


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## lawnboy

m_ice said:


> How fresh is nothing?
> 
> And how do you get them to cover it at the port for you?


True but I don't think the salt out of the Detroit mine ever sits does it? Seems dry when we get it.


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## DeVries

My salt is coming out of American out of Rochester NY for now. Its very dry and dusty, not like some of the stuff that comes late winter that can be wet.


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## Mark Oomkes

John_DeereGreen said:


> Yes, but it didn't appear that the other poster quite understood it...


My bad...I was under the impression that Aj's statement (below) was pretty plain to anyone in bizness.



Ajlawn1 said:


> *If it's not in your possession* consider your "reserved" salt still up for sale...


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## Mark Oomkes

lawnboy said:


> True but I don't think the salt out of the Detroit mine ever sits does it? Seems dry when we get it.


Detroit has very limited outside storage space. And if you get it through MTO it's in their warehouse so it's always dry.


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## FredG

DeVries said:


> My salt is coming out of American out of Rochester NY for now. Its very dry and dusty, not like some of the stuff that comes late winter that can be wet.


 Independent truckers delivering it? That's where I get my salt.


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## DeVries

Yes its coming in walking floor garbage trucks. We ship our garbage to the states and we get your salt as a back haul. 
Not a bad deal we've got going until Trump catches wind of it and tries to stop that too. Thing is our P.M is such a wimp Trump will probably get his way.


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## m_ice

DeVries said:


> Yes its coming in walking floor garbage trucks. We ship our garbage to the states and we get your salt as a back haul.
> Not a bad deal we've got going until Trump catches wind of it and tries to stop that too. Thing is our P.M is such a wimp Trump will probably get his way.


Probably get his way??? He will call the P.M. out on Chirp for a celebrity death match if he dont get his way.


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## FredG

DeVries said:


> Yes its coming in walking floor garbage trucks. We ship our garbage to the states and we get your salt as a back haul.
> Not a bad deal we've got going until Trump catches wind of it and tries to stop that too. Thing is our P.M is such a wimp Trump will probably get his way.


 Yes that is a pretty good deal, We get everybody's trash here anyways. Casella and waste management are making a killing.


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## Mark Oomkes

DeVries said:


> Yes its coming in walking floor garbage trucks. We ship our garbage to the states and we get your salt as a back haul.
> Not a bad deal we've got going until Trump catches wind of it and tries to stop that too. Thing is our P.M is such a wimp Trump will probably get his way.


Yes, you did ship Granholm to us.


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## DeVries

Just don't forget who invented the game


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## fireside

You guys have little salt here in little old Ct. the port in new haven is full to the max plus there is a barge sitting waiting to get unloaded. You guys need to stay out of ct please. We had a salt shortage because everyone came here to haul away our salt not to mention drive the price to double


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## lawnboy

Mark Oomkes said:


> Detroit has very limited outside storage space. And if you get it through MTO it's in their warehouse so it's always dry.


I don't buy from mto but it usually comes direct. I think that the Detroit stuff is the best. The salt off the barge in lake mi doesn't activate as well.


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## Freshwater

DeVries said:


> Yes its coming in walking floor garbage trucks. We ship our garbage to the states and we get your salt as a back haul.
> Not a bad deal we've got going until Trump catches wind of it and tries to stop that too.
> Thing is if our P.M wasnt such a MORON, the deal would already be done with no tariffs at all either way.


Fixed it for you.


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## grf_1000

Mark Oomkes said:


> Big pile in Alpena...


It's always been cheaper for me to get mine from Detroit or even shipped from Canada then to buy from Alpena. Alpena is only 70 miles from me, Detroit is 230. Salt price is always 25% higher plus you can only buy if you use his trucking company. Charges the same price for a train from Detroit.


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## Mark Oomkes

Just in case some of you weren't aware...there's a salt shortage in parts of the country...

https://www.totallandscapecare.com/...Care&ust_id=9c6399cb67091d37c82b0fba4b4a6ef2&


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## On a Call

Mark Oomkes said:


> Just in case some of you weren't aware...there's a salt shortage in parts of the country...
> 
> https://www.totallandscapecare.com/business-best-practices/salt-shortage-what-you-can-expect-this-winter/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_content=09-18-2018&utm_campaign=Total Landscape Care&ust_id=9c6399cb67091d37c82b0fba4b4a6ef2&


Is is possible that the strike was initiated due to mines greatly increasing their prices without compensation to the workers ? Just a thought.

BTW found it for 82.00 a ton, blue salt.


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## Ajlawn1

Mark Oomkes said:


> Just in case some of you weren't aware...there's a salt shortage in parts of the country...
> 
> https://www.totallandscapecare.com/business-best-practices/salt-shortage-what-you-can-expect-this-winter/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_content=09-18-2018&utm_campaign=Total Landscape Care&ust_id=9c6399cb67091d37c82b0fba4b4a6ef2&


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## FredG

DeVries said:


> My salt is coming out of American out of Rochester NY for now. Its very dry and dusty, not like some of the stuff that comes late winter that can be wet.


 We been getting our salt from American since the mid 80's. Always been dry and dusty. There right down the road from us.


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## FredG

Ajlawn1 said:


>


 I don't remember a shortage ever here. I do know some contractor that got involved with Walmart and spent there budget half way though the season. I salt the same amount every time some time blacktop is showing sometime it may not. Salt present is all I care about and don't salt on request if it was already salted.

Course I been fired over it tho because I don't like anybody telling me how and when to do my job. That's why these days I don't bid nothing, All I want to do my clients I service besides snow and they are all per trip. Yes I do understand it would be hard to behave like I do if you want the big a big player.


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## Ajlawn1

https://horttrades.com/spare-some-salt


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## Defcon 5

Ajlawn1 said:


> https://horttrades.com/spare-some-salt


Good article....It's production minipulaton to achieve price manipulation....They have taken a page from the oil company's play book


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## DeVries

8 million tons of salt produced annually, and most of what what melts from the salt ends up in the lakes. And we can't spray for weeds in our lawns anymore due to it polluting the enviroment. Something wrong here.


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## GMC Driver

DeVries said:


> 8 million tons of salt produced annually, and most of what what melts from the salt ends up in the lakes. And we can't spray for weeds in our lawns anymore due to it polluting the enviroment. Something wrong here.


Yes there is - but they are elected because they are alot smarter than us poor dumb plow jockeys.


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## FredG

DeVries said:


> 8 million tons of salt produced annually, and most of what what melts from the salt ends up in the lakes. And we can't spray for weeds in our lawns anymore due to it polluting the enviroment. Something wrong here.


 Salt does a lot of damage to the environment when over used. Yes there is something wrong.


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## cjames808

Ozinga is selling salt at $160/ton. I think they are late to the drive up the price game, everyone else is getting cheaper as a new pile is being stocked at our port and muni domes are a filling. We are down to $99 ton from a local supplier closer to Chicago.


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## On a Call

I found it for 80..


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## On a Call

*But I agree....where does all this salt end up ???*

In our water, in our soils, and as dust.

Mark made a statement as have other last season...and, it is point we should all think about !


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## FredG

With the City Cops fueling up near the salt barn I'm hoping to get some for diddly. :laugh:


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## fireside

In ct they tried 3 years ago to regulate salt and salt applications. Basically it would be handled just as would pesticides. You would of been required to report all salt used per location, storage location, and town would have to report per lane mile used. All salt storage would require a conservation plan to be filed annually. Plus you would of needed a DEEP license TO STORE AND APPLY!!! Not to mention the cost off some training class on best practices before they would issue a license thank god it failed. I asked my state rep if it also included language to limit liability of property owners and contractors the famous blank look followed


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## John_DeereGreen

fireside said:


> In ct they tried 3 years ago to regulate salt and salt applications. Basically it would be handled just as would pesticides. You would of been required to report all salt used per location, storage location, and town would have to report per lane mile used. All salt storage would require a conservation plan to be filed annually. Plus you would of needed a DEEP license TO STORE AND APPLY!!! Not to mention the cost off some training class on best practices before they would issue a license thank god it failed. I asked my state rep if it also included language to limit liability of property owners and contractors the famous blank look followed


If the regulation started with the DOT and municipalities, I'd be 75% behind it. Most of the over application (at least in OH) is ODOT and the municipalities. Not private contractors.

If the regulation included liability limitations for contractors following the required regulation of application (similar to pesticide label limitations) I would be 100% behind it.

Just my opinion.


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## Defcon 5

On a Call said:


> I found it for 80..


Sure


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## LapeerLandscape

Defcon 5 said:


> Sure


Some people claim to see bigfoot too.


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## Ajlawn1

LapeerLandscape said:


> Some people claim to see bigfoot too.


I think your CL guy has came down too...


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## John_DeereGreen

I found it for $83. Fob Cincinnati...


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## LapeerLandscape

John_DeereGreen said:


> I found it for $83. Fob Cincinnati...


Trucking would kill you from Cinci.


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## EWSplow

cjames808 said:


> Ozinga is selling salt at $160/ton. I think they are late to the drive up the price game, everyone else is getting cheaper as a new pile is being stocked at our port and muni domes are a filling. We are down to $99 ton from a local supplier closer to Chicago.


I drive by Jones island daily. Looks like the piles are growing dramatically. Wondering if the price might drop a little?


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## EWSplow

LapeerLandscape said:


> Some people claim to see bigfoot too.


Every once in awhile he posts pics with himself in them.


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## John_DeereGreen

:laugh::laugh:


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## John_DeereGreen

LapeerLandscape said:


> Trucking would kill you from Cinci.


Actually not as bad as I expected. $18/ton.


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## On a Call

Defcon 5 said:


> Sure


You doubt my comment ?
How much are you paying ?


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## On a Call

LapeerLandscape said:


> Trucking would kill you from Cinci.


Not too bad...but it adds to the price.

Last season a year ago I was at 47 dilivered...not so this year


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## On a Call

John_DeereGreen said:


> Actually not as bad as I expected. $18/ton.


In state prices are not too bad IMO. I did not look into prices crossing into Mich.


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## Defcon 5

On a Call said:


> You doubt my comment ?
> How much are you paying ?


I pay $0....I have no skin in the game....But I also do know last year you claimed to be getting salt from Detroit Salt...You are gonna pay no where near $80 a Ton...I know people buying thousands of tons and they are paying no where near that...


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## On a Call

See message


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## BossPlow2010

On a Call said:


> See message


Waiting on pins and needles, where is salt 80 a ton?


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## John_DeereGreen

BossPlow2010 said:


> Waiting on pins and needles, where is salt 80 a ton?


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## plow4beer

BossPlow2010 said:


> Waiting on pins and needles, where is salt 80 a ton?


apparently no where in meatchicken.

we have 2 suppliers right now. One is at 70/ton picked up, the other is at 80.


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## On a Call

BossPlow2010 said:


> Waiting on pins and needles, where is salt 80 a ton?


Cinci


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## On a Call

plow4beer said:


> apparently no where in meatchicken.
> 
> we have 2 suppliers right now. One is at 70/ton picked up, the other is at 80.


Yeppers...I found it south in Ohio


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## Ajlawn1

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6453361314608803840


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## EWSplow

Ajlawn1 said:


> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6453361314608803840


I see there's a fresh pile of the brown stuff in Milwaukee too. Looks like decent stuff.


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## Mark Oomkes

EWSplow said:


> I see there's a fresh pile of the brown stuff in Milwaukee too. Looks like decent stuff.


Milorganite???


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> Milorganite???


Might as well be...


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## cjames808

That’s funny Mark. The Milorganite facility is at the port with the salt. Maybe they mixed them up. 

On a side note someone is building a very large new pile with ships arriving every few days. Hopefully that will relieve some of this bogus pressure. 

We are still seeing $135-$160 delivered! 

FYI. Ozinga Is at $158.xx delivered min 22 ton. Hopefully they eat it.


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## BossPlow2010

cjames808 said:


> That's funny Mark. The Milorganite facility is at the port with the salt. Maybe they mixed them up.
> 
> On a side note someone is building a very large new pile with ships arriving every few days. Hopefully that will relieve some of this bogus pressure.
> 
> We are still seeing $135-$160 delivered!
> 
> FYI. Ozinga Is at $158.xx delivered min 22 ton. Hopefully they eat it.


Better hope it's not from Cairo


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## cjames808

It’s more yellow looking than brown. Maybe it has Egyptian gold in it.


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## BossPlow2010

cjames808 said:


> It's more yellow looking than brown. Maybe it has Egyptian gold in it.


Put it in your spreader and report back, or I can tell you now if you reallllllly wanna know...


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## Defcon 5

BossPlow2010 said:


> Put it in your spreader and report back, or I can tell you now if you reallllllly wanna know...


It's Crap....I know all to well


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> It's Crap....I know all to well


As do I...because I heard about it every time you were out.


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> As do I...because I heard about it every time you were out.


Just as I heard from you saying....It can stop now and I hate Lake Effect


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> Just as I heard from you saying....It can stop now and I hate Lake Effect


I don't recall that...


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## Defcon 5

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't recall that...


I do


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## Mark Oomkes

Defcon 5 said:


> I do


If you say so...


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## MotorCityGrading

Has anyone used the new triple screened egyptian salt? I have 2 option, get the egyptian salt from a local supplier or get a truck of salt from new york for the same price.


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## John_DeereGreen

From my experience, the Egyptian salt needs to stay in Egypt.


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## Mark Oomkes

MotorCityGrading said:


> Has anyone used the new triple screened egyptian salt? I have 2 option, get the egyptian salt from a local supplier or get a truck of salt from new york for the same price.


From the nonstop texts from Defcon and Xpress...I'd get the stuff from New York.


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## m_ice

BossPlow2010 said:


> Waiting on pins and needles, where is salt 80 a ton?


$70/Ton FOB Kansas
But they want $42/Ton for freight and so that doesn't count for me


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## Ctsvguy

cjames808 said:


> Ozinga is selling salt at $160/ton. I think they are late to the drive up the price game, everyone else is getting cheaper as a new pile is being stocked at our port and muni domes are a filling. We are down to $99 ton from a local supplier closer to Chicago.


Currently looking for a new salt vendor in the Chicagoland area. Do you have any contacts you could send my way!


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## fpb88

Yes.


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## fpb88

Ctsvguy said:


> Currently looking for a new salt vendor in the Chicagoland area. Do you have any contacts you could send my way!


Yes.


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## cjames808

I think the pressure is off. We had another place call and ask if we “need” any salt for $100/ton picked up or $120 delivered.


Our port now has blue, brown/brown, and white piles coming in like nobodys business.


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## EWSplow

cjames808 said:


> I think the pressure is off. We had another place call and ask if we "need" any salt for $100/ton picked up or $120 delivered.
> 
> Our port now has blue, brown/brown, and white piles coming in like nobodys business.


FYI, I also saw a green pile. LOL


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## Bill Stewart - YGLS LLC.

Defcon 5 said:


> 2 Freighters with 100k Tonnes????....That's a bit much to fit on 2 Freighters


Some freighters can carry up to 50,000 Metric Tons of Bulk Salt.


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## Defcon 5

Bill Stewart - YGLS LLC. said:


> Some freighters can carry up to 50,000 Metric Tons of Bulk Salt.


This is true...But not in the Great Lake delivering to the ports im referring to...


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## GMC Driver

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_freighter

fakeipedia has quite abit of accurate info on this. Depending where these self-unloaders are originatign from, they may be limited in size due to the restrictions to come through the locks on the Welland Canal. The new Equinox & Trillium class don't leave much extra room, they squeeze in there.

Salties (ocean vessels) are different size and shape and often are smaller to be able to handle the rough seas.


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## EWSplow

GMC Driver said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_freighter
> 
> fakeipedia has quite abit of accurate info on this. Depending where these self-unloaders are originatign from, they may be limited in size due to the restrictions to come through the locks on the Welland Canal. The new Equinox & Trillium class don't leave much extra room, they squeeze in there.
> 
> Salties (ocean vessels) are different size and shape and often are smaller to be able to handle the rough seas.


Very true. Most of the modern lake freighters were designed specifically for the great lakes. Only a few were designed to navigate some of the tighter rivers. 
Max cargo on most that fit through the welland is about 37,000 ton.
Because I drive past the port of Milwaukee almost daily, I've been looking to see what's delivering salt. Last week, I noticed a self unloading Canadian Lake freighter.


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## LapeerLandscape

Speaking of freighters this is a maneuvering master piece.


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## EWSplow

LapeerLandscape said:


> Speaking of freighters this is a maneuvering master piece.


I think they sped it up...just a little.


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## grf_1000

EWSplow said:


> FYI, I also saw a green pile. LOL


Green pile as in Clearlane?


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## EWSplow

grf_1000 said:


> Green pile as in Clearlane?


It appeared to be.


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## cjames808

Morton is bringing in 2 more freighters, apparently all spoken for by wi dot. 

CarGill is bringing in one freighter but no truckers want to haul as last time they were here with bulk, 2-3 years ago, payments took them 90 days. North American is selling it for them probably explains a lot.


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## sota

heh... I might be the only one here who would love for a massive salt shortage; especially around here they WAY over-salt the roads, causing massive damage to not just the road but my vehicles.


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## John_DeereGreen

sota said:


> heh... I might be the only one here who would love for a massive salt shortage; especially around here they WAY over-salt the roads, causing massive damage to not just the road but my vehicles.


Massive salt shortage does nothing but bone contractors. The dot/municipal customers all get whatever they want.


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## chachi1984

with the slow winter so far , is there any update on the "shortage"
ive read and heard many different things


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## Luther

chachi1984 said:


> with the slow winter so far , is there any update on the "shortage"
> ive read and heard many different things


This is a great question. Since this is a fluid situation let's take look at where we are now compared to last year. For the sake of this argument, this comparison is basically for SE Michigan. Y'all in different regions will have to look at your own historical activity to see where you might be at. However, I suspect most of the states in the Great Lakes region will align with our area.

This November (2018) we had 9 salt runs. I'm sure those who bought salt this year for re-sale gouge back to those of us that actually need and use the product for our client's sites must have been feeling great about things. This December (2018) only 2 salt runs. Zero pushes. No question this December has turned out to be a bust. Consider looking forward as there is little to nothing in our forecast until maybe the middle of January 2019.

By this time last year (or January 10th of last year to be exact) we had already gone through more than half the amount of salt we used all of last year. Comparing this year's usage to last year's usage, we have only used maybe 25% of what we used last year.

Even if this upcoming January, February and March redeem themselves and give us a little more than the average amount of snow we usually get, we will not use anywhere near the amount of salt we used last year, as we are already way behind.

This should make those who are sitting on salt just waiting to sell it to us at a gouge profit very nervous.


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## Mark Oomkes

Luther said:


> This should make those who are sitting on salt just waiting to sell it to us at a gouge profit very nervous.


Problem for me is the terms they required in order to get some\any salt. Must take delivery by Jan 31 or Feb 28. Booking fees for salt will not be refunded if one does not take delivery by Jan 31.

Then the BS of this dock only being open such and such a day...this one twice this month maybe...yadda, yadda, yadda.

I was told if the salt wasn't available, I would get my booking fee back. Now they're saying if I don't take it whenever they can get it, I won't get any of that money back if I don't take delivery. Even before Jan 31. Not what they said initially.

My other vendor gave me a percentage based on what I bought from them in the past. Kept asking if they had more...NOPE. Then I find out he sold 100 tons to another contractor who had never bought salt from them before. Asked him about that...he didn't answer.

So it really doesn't matter to me what happens to prices, I'm locked in. Shoot, it might get even more expensive if I can't get it because of whatever BS they're telling me that limits how much and\or when they can get it.


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## chachi1984

Here in the GTA region. Burlington , Hamilton ,Mississauga,Milton ect . We only had one push in November and 2-3 saltings. Last year we did 10 pushes in December alone . 
I had a yard call me 2 weeks ago trying to sell salt at a discount rate . After I got off the phone I thought. “ you just said about a shortage yet your trying to sell more salt by calling customers “. I’ve never had any yard call me trying to sell salt . 

It a lot of the yards bought salt from over seas already paid the extra cost for shipping and trucks so I can’t see them lowering the price that much. Only way the prices would lower as if the mines in Goderich starts delivering more salt . I’ve heard the siffto was only selling the cities and concentrating on the bag market , so that didn’t help with the shortage 

Will see what happens I guess .


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## Mark Oomkes

chachi1984 said:


> Only way the prices would lower as if the mines in Goderich starts delivering more salt


They mine 6 or 7 days a week, 20 hours a day with 4 hours for maintenance.

They can't make up for 3 months lost production.

Sifto\Compass went big into municipal because they knew others weren't able to. And consequently screwed all their contractors...who they make significantly more dollars\ton from.


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## DeVries

I had a call two weeks ago as well from a supplier asking if I needed more salt. Told them I was stocked full still but I would let them know when I needed again. They called back a week later asking again, we still hadn't used any as we didnt have any events that needed salting. They sounded a little desperate, I know they had purchased a large amount overseas.
The dock in Hamilton looks like they usually do this time of the year, two massive tarped piles, there was a ship unloading more there Monday. Not so sure there is a shortage anymore with the lack of snow events we've had so far this winter.


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## John_DeereGreen

I hope all these “brokers” that planned on getting rich off our backs lose their asses.


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## MIDTOWNPC

It sure would get me ticked off if there was a sale and the people who didn’t buy any got a deal 

I bought a lot to protect my business 
and make sure I had enough


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## Mark Oomkes

Normally I'd be saying I'm not too concerned, it's Michigan (Ontario, wherever) and winter; we'll have winter weather. 

Just for grins and giggles I took a peak at the extended forecast for January...and started drinking heavily. 

Yeah, I know, they can't get a window forecast accurate. But dang that forecast does NOT look good.


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## DeVries

If our historical averages say anything, I'm gonna have a lot of salt left by the end of January

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/c...2019&month=1&dispt=calendar-container-monthly


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## tpendagast

WE cant get enough salt here in alaska, people are fighting for it.
IVe had 12-15 salt runs.

Of course the guys up here have no idea what theyre doing and dump it so heavy they might as well just use dump trucks and save the money on a spreader.

Ive watched over 300 gallons of brine per acre and over a ton per acre on pre wet salt.

I have pictures somewhere, we were laughing "hey get a broom and a bag we can sweep this stuff up and use it later!"


our supplies here are alot more limited than down there tho,


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## Mark Oomkes

tpendagast said:


> Ive watched over 300 gallons of brine per acre and over a ton per acre on pre wet salt.
> 
> I have pictures somewhere, we were laughing "hey get a broom and a bag we can sweep this stuff up and use it later!"


I see that once in awhile down here where there is a lot of salt.


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## EWSplow

Mark Oomkes said:


> Normally I'd be saying I'm not too concerned, it's Michigan (Ontario, wherever) and winter; we'll have winter weather.
> 
> Just for grins and giggles I took a peak at the extended forecast for January...and started drinking heavily.
> 
> Yeah, I know, they can't get a window forecast accurate. But dang that forecast does NOT look good.


About the time I schedule jobs with real deadlines, we'll get buried in snow and I'll be scrambling to switch over.


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## Mark Oomkes

EWSplow said:


> About the time I schedule jobs with real deadlines, we'll get buried in snow and I'll be scrambling to switch over.


Start scheduling!!!!


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## chachi1984

DeVries said:


> I had a call two weeks ago as well from a supplier asking if I needed more salt. Told them I was stocked full still but I would let them know when I needed again. They called back a week later asking again, we still hadn't used any as we didnt have any events that needed salting. They sounded a little desperate, I know they had purchased a large amount overseas.
> The dock in Hamilton looks like they usually do this time of the year, two massive tarped piles, there was a ship unloading more there Monday. Not so sure there is a shortage anymore with the lack of snow events we've had so far this winter.


I think those piles are for the city only , 
That's what a read in the past. Not sure if it's true or not


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