# Talk me off the ledge



## olesnowpatrol (Aug 13, 2011)

So we had 2.3 inches of snow today here in Madison, WI as measured at the airport. I have a two inch trigger in my contracts. On my route tonight, half of them had cleared the driveway on their own. I let some choice words out as I drove by (especially since this is only my 2nd plow event of the year!), but am in a calmer place now. Help me figure out how to deal with this....

Here is the relevant language in my contract:
"A.	XXX per snow event to clear the driveway of the residence only, unless other agreements are made between the parties. A “snow event” is defined as at least 2 inches of snowfall as measured by the contractor at the driveway within a 24 hour period. Contractor will plow the driveway again during a snow event upon request by the customer unless the total snowfall for the snow event exceeds 8 inches at which time Contractor will automatically provide a second billable push (so the contractor can keep up with the snow accumulations). Please note that any snow falls over 12 inches (e.g. blizzards or other extraordinary weather conditions) may require additional plowings. 
B.	Additional plowings above 2 inches but less than 8 inches during a snow event may also be contracted at the request of the customer. Please call XXXXXXX or email XXXXX should you desire an additional plowing (email is preferred).
C.	Contractor will make a reasonable effort to have the snow plowing completed by 7 a.m.
D.	Oftentimes municipal snow plows fill driveway aprons with excess snow after the driveway has been cleared. If this causes a hazard or inconvenience, customer may kindly contact us and we will attempt to clear this within a reasonably agreed upon time frame. Additional trips to clear driveway aprons are upon request only and will be billed at $XXper visit. "


Here are the 3 options I have considered so far:

1. Do nothing;
2. Send them an email and remind them of the trigger and tell them next time I will bill for the snow event if it meets the trigger amount? They can cancel the contract with 30 days notice.
3. Same as #2 but bill them $10 (or some other token) for my time/fuel. I don't have a contract provision for this, but I want them to know that my time is worth something...

Help me keep the accounts but enforce my contract


----------



## RepoMan1968 (Jan 9, 2012)

#1 Do Nothing .
It's 2012 and were in a depression . Folks are trying to stretch a buck .


----------



## G.Landscape (Oct 20, 2011)

I don't do residential stuff but am posting mainly to hear people answers......

If it were me I would do something along the lines of option 3 but maybe have a percentage of the cost per time, instead of a dollar amount


----------



## UpstateServices (Nov 28, 2011)

Shoveling gets old real quick, if it happens again send an Email letting them know you were out and will charge a $10.00 trip charge if not notified before your arrival. Mention you are waiving the charge the first time as a courtesy, but your time does have value.

I'm all seasonal so I love those shoveled drives!!!!

Cheers


----------



## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

the first time some one shovels a drive before i plow it i cut them off the list. No call just wait for the next storm and when they call asking why they didnt get plowed explain what happened before. I quit calling people after they shovel them because they just give you a thousand reasons why it should be ok. Its not ok, do you want it plowed or not because im not racing you to your drive every storm. If your a 6" plus drive im gona whack you HARD on the price. 

I have better things to do then mess around driving across town to check on your drive. 


NO YOU CANT CALL ME EVERY STORM AND TELL ME YOU ALL READY PLOWED THE DRIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry thats my pet peeve of winter time.


----------



## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

I think if you do nothing, this will continue to happen as they "think" they are stretching a buck, and cutting you out of the equation. You are a per push contractor, so what about your rights to earn a dollar in a business that is the pits this year? What about the fact that you drove on your dime to their site and were prevented from earning what you were entitled to? They have to remember that they signed with you for the season, and they need to let you earn your living. Presumably you have paid for equipment etc. which in part has been earmarked for their site, which cost you money no matter whether it snows or not (also other overhead such as insurance). 

We check people off our list as done whether we did it or if they did it themselves - we were there regardless. It takes longer to get there most times than it does to do the clearing. Now, we are seasonal, but in the days when I did per push, it was the same and I rarely had a complaint against us for charging the visit fee.

It was their choice to get out and shovel or sit back in their house and let the contract play out as they agreed to. They made the choice to unnecessarily shovel their driveway, not you. If you only had 2.3 inches, I doubt that any of them were plowed in and couldn't get out, thereby necessitating the need to shovel.

Now, if you were later than the agreed upon time (significantly) or didn't show up, they would have every right to do that. However, under the description I don't think that was the case. 

The mid day snowfalls are always the worst for that sort of thing. People are getting home from work and see snow on their driveway and have nothing better to do than shovel it. 

I would suggest you contact the culprits and let them know that you noticed they had shovelled the driveway when you arrived at XX time, and that isn't necessary and you expected to do the driveway in the previously agreed manner per your contract. You won't charge them this time, but every other time it happens you will be charging as though you had cleared it (minimum 2 inch rate). Most people will understand that with a polite simple reminder. Keep it low key and business like, and most will respect you for taking your position. 

You will likely not see them do it again.


----------



## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

Or it could be a helpful neighbor syndrome. Either way, they get billed. If we are in a depression and want to stretch a buck, then why hire a plow guy to begin with. You did the estimate. You got a contract signed. You (hopefully) marked out the driveway. You drove to do the job. Bill them as the contract states. What's to think about? These are the kind of people that go through a new plow guy or two every season. I let them know this up front. Why? Because it's happened too much in the past.


----------



## pooleo8 (Nov 8, 2009)

Thing is, as a per push contract, part of that is getting the "easy" pushes if you will. You are going to have hard pushes also. So the idea here, is that you get more easy pushes over hard pushes and make money. I garuntee the home owner has no problem shoveling 2", but wait till that is 6 0r 10". Im sure if you dont show up then they'll be pissed. Then just say, welp, I know you were out shoveling, so I just crossed you off the list!


----------



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Get them to go seasonal.This way if they shovel it, keep on driving by and still get paid for it.


----------



## Silverado10923 (Oct 1, 2010)

Let it ride. .3" of snow is not worth losing the customer. It is a service business and we want happy customers.


----------



## JLsDmax (Dec 23, 2008)

it may have been a situation where they did not think you would visit.Maybe 2.3" at the airport could have been 1.9" at the customers house. So they went out and shoveled


----------



## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

agreed with jls, maybe send out an email and that will remind everyone that there is a charge of xxx amount of dallors if you show up and it's already been taken care of!


----------



## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

newhere;1418913 said:


> I have better things to do then mess around driving across town to check on your drive.


really you drive across town for 1 driveway? how can you make any money that way, you would have to charge $60 or $100 per visit to cover driving time.


----------



## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

The same way a store handles returns with a smile


----------



## NorthernSvc's (Mar 12, 2006)

I would still send them a bill.. they signed a contract with you.. you reserved a space on your route for them, if they want to do it themselves they should cancel their contract, and allow you to get new customers..don't do something that's not in your contract... you showed up at the agreed upon time during a storm that was over 2", you wasted your gas driving their and your time...


----------



## NBI Lawn (Oct 15, 2007)

You cant bill them since you didn't tell them in the past there would be a charge for it. I would send a letter informing them there will be a charge in the future should it happen again. It is hard to say if they had the 2" though...the homeowner may have measured <2" before doing it. At such a small amount of snow its hard to be mad.


----------



## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

olesnowpatrol;1418888 said:


> So we had 2.3 inches of snow today here in Madison, WI as measured at the airport. I have a two inch trigger in my contracts. On my route tonight, half of them had cleared the driveway on their own. I let some choice words out as I drove by (especially since this is only my 2nd plow event of the year!), but am in a calmer place now. Help me figure out how to deal with this....
> 
> Here is the relevant language in my contract:
> "A.	XXX per snow event to clear the driveway of the residence only, unless other agreements are made between the parties. A "snow event" is defined as at least 2 inches of snowfall as measured by the contractor at the driveway within a 24 hour period. Contractor will plow the driveway again during a snow event upon request by the customer unless the total snowfall for the snow event exceeds 8 inches at which time Contractor will automatically provide a second billable push (so the contractor can keep up with the snow accumulations). Please note that any snow falls over 12 inches (e.g. blizzards or other extraordinary weather conditions) may require additional plowings.
> ...


I had a similar situation, one of my resi's son in laws snow blew half the driveway before I got there. Where I live, drive's are right next to each other and there are a lot of hills before I get there meaning I use a decent amount of fuel going from drive to drive. I dropped my blade, made one pass, and she came right out and paid me. I asked her why he bothered, and she said she wanted him out of the house. I let her know that I had to charge whether it was completed or not and she had no problem with it.



newhere;1418913 said:


> the first time some one shovels a drive before i plow it i cut them off the list. No call just wait for the next storm and when they call asking why they didnt get plowed explain what happened before. I quit calling people after they shovel them because they just give you a thousand reasons why it should be ok. Its not ok, do you want it plowed or not because im not racing you to your drive every storm. If your a 6" plus drive im gona whack you HARD on the price.
> 
> I have better things to do then mess around driving across town to check on your drive.
> 
> NO YOU CANT CALL ME EVERY STORM AND TELL ME YOU ALL READY PLOWED THE DRIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry thats my pet peeve of winter time.


I completely agree. You wasted time, Fuel, and money to go by there when you could've gone straight to your next account. Bill them full price.



DodgeBlizzard;1419006 said:


> Or it could be a helpful neighbor syndrome. Either way, they get billed. If we are in a depression and want to stretch a buck, then why hire a plow guy to begin with. You did the estimate. You got a contract signed. You (hopefully) marked out the driveway. You drove to do the job. Bill them as the contract states. What's to think about? These are the kind of people that go through a new plow guy or two every season. I let them know this up front. Why? Because it's happened too much in the past.


Agree again. I'd rather have them call at 1" and ask if I could swing by then assume I'm not coming by at 2" and shovel it themselves. I guess it depends on your relationships as well, I'm friendly with all of my accounts so they have no problem calling to see if I can "scrape up" some slush when I normally wouldn't go over.


----------



## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

NBI Lawn;1419290 said:


> You cant bill them since you didn't tell them in the past there would be a charge for it. I would send a letter informing them there will be a charge in the future should it happen again. It is hard to say if they had the 2" though...the homeowner may have measured <2" before doing it. At such a small amount of snow its hard to be mad.


Agreed

you quote a snow depth at the airport but your contract says you measure at there driveway.

My rout is only 3 miles across and several times Ive had 3" on one side and 1 inch on the other


----------



## plowman4life (Jan 16, 2008)

just let it go. personally i dont even have any residentials under a 3" trigger. so i wouldnt make a big deal over it. most customers assume b/c of a 2" trigger if it stops at 2" that the plow guy isnt showing up. its not worth loosing a customer. its not like they called another company to do it.


----------



## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

I would explain that snow fall on one side of town to the other side can and does vary. You can only go by your own home and the weather report. So when then weather report and or your judgment indicates that the trigger was reached they should expect you to show up with your plow being that they signed a contract.

When you show up and the drive way has been plowed they will still be billed,. It takes time, fuel, mileage on your equipment to just drive to their home. These expenses have to be taken care of.


----------



## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

Your contract should say where you base your 2" from so your customers can quickly and easily know whether or not to take care of it themselves. I know if i had a regular job, i wouldn't want to come home and sit around the house with "about" 2" of snow in the driveway wondering if its OK if i can touch it or not to wake up the next morning and have to take care of it myself because I wasn't sure. Nor do you want all of your customers calling wondering if you're coming. Be clear and specific! I would let this one go though.


----------



## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

I bill at the end of each month and you bet I would bill them for it. Not even a 2nd thought. If and when they call and complain I would politely explain the situation and what they signed up for. 
For you folks that are saying you wouldn't bother billing them, you're out of your minds. My triggers are lower than 2". I've had it happen to me in the past, I billed em. Some whined, some didn't. I've had say they can do it on weekends and tuesdays, heard it all. I dump em and go plow for people that don't F with me and jerk me around wasting time. I want to plow for people that want my service.


----------



## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

One other thing, all of my business and residentials are on real basic contracts. I really try to avoid the 2", 2.4", 1.5" bs trigger stuff. I take care of all of them with common sense. I plow rural drives differently than the in town ones, plowed many with only 3/4" at times, depends how it falls. I've let 2" sit before if its gonna be 45 degrees the next day. I am not questioned and I bet I plow twice as much as most people because of this kind of relationship. We take care of things that need to be taken care of. I have never had a 2" trigger for anyone. 1" or so we say. 
Basically what I'm trying to say is we strive for getting customers, mainly commercial, that want great service, black parking lots. For driveways if they start saying only plow at 3" or 2" or whatever, I tell them they have the wrong guy. Thats the end of my RANT


----------



## TLLandS (Jan 24, 2012)

first, i wouldnt negotiate a 2" minimum, and convince your account that an inch is the way to go. too maany bad things versus the good with 2" down and no removal. to me, that is crazy and second, go seasonal! My customers love that option,80% of my customers witha a continuous service agreement with me love that option. I bill them seasonal, and go with 3/4". Ihave had accounts done in the past and loved it. Plus, we just had our third snow event yesterday, and it was an inch. So, i have made out well on that aspect, but losing my [email protected]$ on plowing!!


----------



## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

If your trigger is 1" than wouldn't you have the same issue if it snowed around 1"?


----------



## iverburl (Sep 17, 2011)

Does anybody bill seasonal plus push? Like a salesman who gets a salary plus a commission, or putting a lawyer on retainer. Start with a low seasonal fee. Enough to cover your expense to drive to the customer, and it helps you weather the bad years like this one. Most reasonable folks will understand that you have certain expenses every year, and will welcome the chance to have some control over the process through the season. Then add per push fee, you push as needed, as Eronnigen described. If they want to save a few bucks on a light snow by shovelling themselves, you did not lose money getting there to check them out. And as it sounds like you are a one-man business, you will develop an understanding of the individual customer preferences over time.

For this one this year, no charge and no complaint. Not worth alienating customers.

And you better get that airport vs. measured at the drive thing straight.


----------



## RepoMan1968 (Jan 9, 2012)

we bill the next work day . they have 7 work days to remit payment. service is cancelled thenafter until a payment is made . snowbrokers are not interested in our business practices to say the least. and were not interested in a middleman expediting work for us either. just how we roll.Thumbs Up


----------



## RonWin (Nov 17, 2011)

option 1. Better to be able to make money of the customer in the future than to lose a single visit. The guys that say they can just cross people off the list the first time an incident like this happens to them, send your customers my way please! I wont have any problem still making money off them the next time the weather decides to dump a few more inches down!!


----------

