# Standard Trans question



## LaffertySalvage (Jan 26, 2014)

I have a 2010 Dodge Ram 3500 Dually , 8 foot bed with the Crew Cab and it is a 4X6and it has the 6.7 Cummins 
But I have a standard trans could I use this to plow even though it does not have a Automatic Trans.
Would you use it for snow plowing or Trade it in and get an Automatic Trans?

Thanks


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

You can plow with either transmission. Is this a serious question? Many guys here like their manual transmissions, but I'll take an automatic any day.


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

The question is, would you?


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

I've got a six speed in my Dodge . Plows great. 1. Clutch, 2 throw out bearings in 350,000 miles. my Achilles tendon gets a little sore after about 10 hrs of driveways.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

My next truck will be a stick. A new clutch is a lot cheaper than a new transmission. Drawback to some would be they tend to be slower in reverse. No big deal for me, I do everything slow.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Yes you can.


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

The real question is can your left leg??


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## LaffertySalvage (Jan 26, 2014)

Thank you for your all of your response's
I am going to keep my Truck and put a plow on

Now what do you think of Western?
I have a Meyers on my Jeep Wrangler and it is a drive pro 6.8 
The dealer I want to got to now is pushing Boss or Western he says Meyers is not that good.
What do you think of Meyers new Lot Pro
Even though my my Dodge is a Dually I want a straight plow not the V 

Thanks for your info


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

Plow type all depends on what your plowing.

Brand is your choice, everyone will give you the good and bad. You can't go wrong with either Boss or Western so go look at them and decide which features you like best.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't think there's anything wrong with Boss, Western, or MeyerS!


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

LaffertySalvage;1768263 said:


> I have a 2010 Dodge Ram 3500 Dually , 8 foot bed with the Crew Cab and it is a *4X6*and it has the 6.7 Cummins
> But I have a standard trans could I use this to plow even though it does not have a Automatic Trans.
> Would you use it for snow plowing or Trade it in and get an Automatic Trans?
> 
> Thanks


Are you saying your pickup is 2wd?

You can still push snow with a 2wd, but it isn't idea. Factor that in along with it being a manual trans and you're really looking at an odd ball type truck for plowing now a days.


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## javaboy (Feb 15, 2014)

Last years ago I plowed with a eaton fuller 15 speed old highway plow. I would of passed on that if I had to opportunity to do so. Automatics make things much easier.

If it is just a small amount of snowplowing (personal & close friends) I think a manual would be just fine. I personally would rather not have the dual wheel and the diesel but thats just my opinion. I feel like I get better traction at highway speed with singles and diesels can be a PITA in the winter.

On another note... Can we really call them "Standard Transmissions" anymore? Seems to me Automatics are now the standard.


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## LaffertySalvage (Jan 26, 2014)

It is 4 wheel drive Truck and I said 4 x 6 because it has 4 wheel drive but it also has 6 wheels 2 in the front and 4 in the back.
I like diesels because they have more pulling power and other features like an exhaust break.
And the main reason I asked the question about the transmission is I wanted to ask some other people what they thought
And I really appreciate the come backs I really do.
I will have this truck paid off in two years and I don't want to go in debt for a new one right now as I am 67.
The truck only has 35,000 on it so if I take care of it might just out last me.
Thanks for all your help


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

Plow brand is your choice. These days, they're all good. You'll need a 9' blade to get past the duals.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

Last truck was 2004 Dodge 2500 Cummins 6 speed and an 8' Fisher. I hated plowing every minute in that truck because of the stick. The question is, do you want to plow with a stick because it will plow fine.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

javaboy;1768768 said:


> On another note... Can we really call them "Standard Transmissions" anymore? Seems to me Automatics are now the standard.


Excellent point, sir.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Find a Fisher hydro plow and put it on,best combo you can have for a stick.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Left leg might get a little sore. 
On occasion, ill plow in a company trk that's an auto. Yea I'm glad to get back to my manual.


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## ABDIRT (Sep 2, 2008)

I have always plowed with a manual trans and the last storm my buddy and I tried each others truck out, he has the auto trans. After 20 min we were both happy to be in our own rigs. I guess when you get used to something you stick with it. I run a 8' with wings and it pushes the snow past the duals just fine. I'm not sure a 9' w/o wings will clear the duals when fully angled.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

JTVLandscaping;1768525 said:


> My next truck will be a stick. A new clutch is a lot cheaper than a new transmission. Drawback to some would be they tend to be slower in reverse. No big deal for me, I do everything slow.


If person has the truck setup for plowing You will want high gears So the Reverse will be high 
My F350 dually is a 5 speed with 373 gears I can run 15 mph in reverse can hit 20mph but then I'm doing 3k rpms + mine is gas
I run a 9.6 V and if I wind row my out side wheel will drive on the windrow but with wings on then its ok

I love my stick I loose less traction with one When I drive my other 2 trucks that has auto they seem to spin more.
One thing with my stick nobody wants run it


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## Mister Plow (Jan 21, 2009)

LaffertySalvage;1768780 said:


> It is 4 wheel drive Truck and I said 4 x 6 because it has 4 wheel drive but it also has 6 wheels 2 in the front and 4 in the back.


Then you would call it a 6x6, unless its two outer wheels are just spinner hubcaps that look like wheels:redbounce

Or you can call it a Dual Rear Wheel 4x4


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Mister Plow;1769750 said:


> Then you would call it a 6x6, unless its two outer wheels are just spinner hubcaps that look like wheels:redbounce
> 
> Or you can call it a Dual Rear Wheel 4x4


I never understood the term 4x4 I think should be 2x2 and a dually is 3x3

Since a truck has 2 front wheels and 2 back wheels

Now this way sounds right 4wd and 2wd makes more since


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Antlerart06;1769992 said:


> I never understood the term 4x4 I think should be 2x2 and a dually is 3x3
> 
> Since a truck has 2 front wheels and 2 back wheels
> 
> Now this way sounds right 4wd and 2wd makes more since


If you really want to get technical it could be one wheel drive and two wheel drive.

Or three wheel drive if you have a locker in the rear. Lol


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

More importantly, why is this thread still going???


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Whiffyspark;1770020 said:


> If you really want to get technical it could be one wheel drive and two wheel drive.
> 
> Or three wheel drive if you have a locker in the rear. Lol


Well if you are on ice all 4 wheels turn so goes back to 2x2:laughing:


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Antlerart06;1769992 said:


> I never understood the term 4x4 I think should be 2x2 and a dually is 3x3
> 
> Since a truck has 2 front wheels and 2 back wheels
> 
> Now this way sounds right 4wd and 2wd makes more since


4 wheels total, by 4 are powered wheels. Just try not to think of as multiplication. You are right, that whoever came up with the idea of using the multiplication sign for it was obviously no mathematician. 4/4 would make more sense, since it could be read "4 drive wheels OF 4 wheels total", and even if you take that as division, 4 divided by 4 = 1 = 100% (all wheels are drive wheels). So a 2/4, 2 drive wheels of 4 wheels total = 1/2 = 50% (half the wheels are drive wheels).

But no... "4x4" looks cooler, even if it means 16.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

jasonv;1772392 said:


> 4 wheels total, by 4 are powered wheels. Just try not to think of as multiplication. You are right, that whoever came up with the idea of using the multiplication sign for it was obviously no mathematician. 4/4 would make more sense, since it could be read "4 drive wheels OF 4 wheels total", and even if you take that as division, 4 divided by 4 = 1 = 100% (all wheels are drive wheels). So a 2/4, 2 drive wheels of 4 wheels total = 1/2 = 50% (half the wheels are drive wheels).
> 
> But no... "4x4" looks cooler, even if it means 16.


Either way that is all irrevelant. Your 4/4 truck doesn't power 4 wheels. It powers two. 3 if you have a rear locker


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Whiffyspark;1772407 said:


> Either way that is all irrevelant. Your 4/4 truck doesn't power 4 wheels. It powers two. 3 if you have a rear locker


on Ice all 4 will turn, till one or two has more traction then only 2 has power with limited slip

But that still doesn't answer my question about the term 4x4


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## speedy1wrc (Feb 15, 2014)

I have both an auto and a stick. I like both but for different reasons. The auto is just easier (mostly). After plowing for awhile it starts to stick in-between gears. I'll think I put in in reverse and it hasn't gotten past neutral, so it's annoying. Come Summer I'll do a an overhaul and fix her right up. I like plowing with the stick because I feel I have more control stacking. I let it coast into the snow and let the plow ride up and slow me to a stop. To me it seems smoother.

As for 4WD or 4X4 or AWD, you then have to include Quattro. But then there's Quattro, Quattro with EDL, Quattro with ASR, and if you want to really grip, Quattro with LSD front and rear. Like riding on rails.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Whiffyspark;1772407 said:


> Either way that is all irrevelant. Your 4/4 truck doesn't power 4 wheels. It powers two. 3 if you have a rear locker


Because of a magical box under the hood with a label of BOSCH on it, mine actually does power all 4 wheels.

But more to the point, your statement actually shows that you lack a proper understanding of how a differential gear actually works. It actually requires a very substantial (proportional) difference in traction for one wheel to let loose and spin freely. On moderate to high traction surfaces, you do indeed get power distributed to both sides of a differential gear.


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## speedy1wrc (Feb 15, 2014)

Tis true, but the rub is when one wheel loses grip. The power is sent to that wheel and that's where you see the wheel spin leading one to believe that it is only 1 wheel drive. Hence the benefit of Torsen which also has it's own Achilles heel.


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## speedy1wrc (Feb 15, 2014)

jasonv;1772820 said:


> Because of a magical box under the hood with a label of BOSCH on it, mine actually does power all 4 wheels.
> 
> But more to the point, your statement actually shows that you lack a proper understanding of how a differential gear actually works. It actually requires a very substantial (proportional) difference in traction for one wheel to let loose and spin freely. On moderate to high traction surfaces, you do indeed get power distributed to both sides of a differential gear.


Depending on the vintage that would be Bosch's EDL or ASR which are essentially the same other than the algorithms and it also varies if it is on a "2wd" or "4wd" chassis.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

jasonv;1772820 said:


> Because of a magical box under the hood with a label of BOSCH on it, mine actually does power all 4 wheels.
> 
> But more to the point, your statement actually shows that you lack a proper understanding of how a differential gear actually works. It actually requires a very substantial (proportional) difference in traction for one wheel to let loose and spin freely. On moderate to high traction surfaces, you do indeed get power distributed to both sides of a differential gear.


So when your stuck and in "4x4" and only 2 tires are turning one in the front and one in back is that still 4x4? If you wanna split hairs true 4*4 is a wheeled skid steer


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

dieselss;1773061 said:


> So when your stuck and in "4x4" and only 2 tires are turning one in the front and one in back is that still 4x4? If you wanna split hairs true 4*4 is a wheeled skid steer


Like I said... if I'm stuck with two wheels spinning, I'm either in 2wd, or the Bosch unit is turned off. I've been there, then turned the Bosch back on and drove right out.

The answer to your question, however, is YES. It is still 4-wheel-drive, and yes, it is still PROPER FULL AND COMPLETE 4-wheel drive.

But it really is looking like you are actually asking for a lesson on differential gears. Wikipedia has a real nice article on differential gears. You should consider reading it.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Your Bosch unit is doing what? Activating the abs?
No no lesson b/c yout trk is still not a true 4*4. And to go further neather really is any trk out there in the road


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

dieselss;1773321 said:


> Your Bosch unit is doing what? Activating the abs?
> No no lesson b/c yout trk is still not a true 4*4. And to go further neather really is any trk out there in the road


I strongly suggest you study the workings of differentials, limited slip differentials, and look into the term "automatic limited slip", how they work, and why they work.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

I understand that. Intelligence is not the issue. All your facts are based on your yota. Which is fine but your not taking into account all the other 4x4s out there. All 4 of your tires are powered.....fine. in otheres with limited, auto or nothing 2 spin 2 do nothing. I have auto locking in my trk and it does nothing. 
The driveshafts pwr axles yadda yadda yadda. That pwr diffs. Blah bablah. Still don't change the fact that your facts are based on your trk alone.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

dieselss;1773359 said:


> I understand that. Intelligence is not the issue. All your facts are based on your yota. Which is fine but your not taking into account all the other 4x4s out there. All 4 of your tires are powered.....fine. in otheres with limited, auto or nothing 2 spin 2 do nothing. I have auto locking in my trk and it does nothing.
> The driveshafts pwr axles yadda yadda yadda. That pwr diffs. Blah bablah. Still don't change the fact that your facts are based on your trk alone.


Ok, well my last truck was a 2000 chevrolet s10-zr2, it had a mechanical limited slip rear diff. When it got stuck, it would spin 3 wheels -- 1 on the front and both back.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that your truck has "auto locking"...? Is that a locking differential that is supposed to kick in automatically? If so, it sounds like yours might be broken. Plowing tends to be very hard on mechanical traction control devices.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Spin 2 spin 3. Still not just gunna admit your basing your info on only the 2 trucks you've had. Just b/c yours does this or that don't mean that everyone else's does that


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

dieselss;1773392 said:


> Spin 2 spin 3. Still not just gunna admit your basing your info on only the 2 trucks you've had. Just b/c yours does this or that don't mean that everyone else's does that


I don't base what I say on observations, I base it on fact. I'm also not interested in arguing with you over what happens when you get stuck with an open differential.

And regardless, it doesn't change anything with respect to what makes a 4wd vehicle a 4wd vehicle, despite your claim that being able to sit there with half your wheels spinning means that its only really 2wd, it is, in fact, still a 4wd.

I would also like to remind you, that just because you have wheels that are stationary, does not mean that torque is not being applied to them. It is simply that the amount of torque being applied to them is limited by the amount of torque that the opposite wheel on that axle is able to hold back. A differential gear will always apply equal torque to both sides. The only problem is that the amount of torque will be determined by the side with the least resistance.

Now here is a very neat thing about a differential gear; when you get into that situation where you have one wheel spinning and the other stationary, the wheel that spins is actually spinning twice as fast as it normally would be given the speed of the driveshaft. Basically, every spin that would otherwise go to the stationary wheel is dumped into the spinning wheel. Because of this, there is a little trick that you can apply when you are stuck in a vehicle with open differentials; give it a little brake. What that does, is it adds a resistance to both sides and reduces the proportional relative difference in resistance. If one wheel spins significantly faster than the other, then the brakes will drag against it harder, causing the power to transfer over to the other side. Think if this as a poor-man's limited slip. A lot of people only think of using the emergency brakes for this, but it will actually work especially well with the main hydraulic brakes on the front wheels.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Dude 

Come on man. 

That fact of the matter is all 4 wheels are not going to work together to pull you out. You just said that 

Nothing is a true 4x4


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Whiffyspark;1773453 said:


> Dude
> 
> Come on man.
> 
> ...


And once again, two completely unrelated statements that you are bringing together as if they were some how related, and in this case, both of your two statements are entirely inaccurate.

Your first statement applies only to that subset of vehicles that don't have 4-wheel traction control (or drivers who know how to use the brakes as I described my previous post). You are making a blanket statement that DOES NOT apply universally, since VERY MANY vehicles do not have this limitation. Like I've said, mine is one such exception to your statement, and it came that way from the factory.

Your second statement is completely meaningless, because you are arguing with the definition of "4x4", which is something that *neither* of us has the right to redefine. Nowhere in the definition of "what is a true 4x4?" does it say that you can't be stuck with 2 wheels spinning. And once again, you are making a blanket statement that does not apply universally. You say "nothing", yet many trucks ARE able to get stuck with all 4 wheels spinning, or are able to redirect torque so that they don't get stuck when others would. Presumably those ones do meet YOUR REdefinition of 4x4? What I am saying, lets make this very very clear... is that YOUR truck with two open differentials, IS a "true 4x4", because that is how "true 4x4" is DEFINED.

Now this thread is massively off topic. If you feel like keeping on going, start a new thread and I'll be happy to participate in it. Deal?


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Whiffyspark;1773453 said:


> Dude
> 
> Come on man.
> 
> ...


Ummmmm I have ARB locking diferentals (and the Jeep rubicon has locking difs too)you can jack up the Jeep so only 1 tire is touching the ground and that 1 tire will pull the jeep of the jacks.

So YES there is true 4X4 out there


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

theplowmeister;1773506 said:


> Ummmmm I have ARB locking diferentals (and the Jeep rubicon has locking difs too)you can jack up the Jeep so only 1 tire is touching the ground and that 1 tire will pull the jeep of the jacks.
> 
> So YES there is true 4X4 out there


How many trucks have locking differentials front and rear? Stock?

Power wagon does. H1 did

Who said a jeep is a truck lol. Is that just on the rubicon package?


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## javaboy (Feb 15, 2014)

You guys argue about any useless thing. Don't you?

We call dump trucks that have three drive axles 6x6 but there is really 10 tires. And they have locking differential so they really are 6x6 or 10x10 or what ever the argument is about. 

Personally I think a DRW with two drive axles is a 4x4.


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## speedy1wrc (Feb 15, 2014)

The pic in my signature is 4wd.

Quattro, no center diff and LSD front and rear.

All 4 wheels spin (fast) all the time.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

speedy1wrc;1773890 said:


> The pic in my signature is 4wd.
> 
> Quattro, no center diff and LSD front and rear.
> 
> All 4 wheels spin (fast) all the time.


Talking about trucks.

I'm well aware of Quattro almost brought one a few times


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Whiffyspark;1773911 said:


> Talking about trucks.
> 
> I'm well aware of Quattro almost brought one a few times


Wish I never ask about the term 4X4 and it refers to anything not just trucks

Sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread


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## speedy1wrc (Feb 15, 2014)

Whiffyspark;1773911 said:


> Talking about trucks.
> 
> I'm well aware of Quattro almost brought one a few times


Understood. Just making a point about there being a true 4wd. Otherwise not jumping into this one.


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## LopatLT7495 (Jan 1, 2014)

I thought this was a thread asking a question about standard trans.


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## thesnowman269 (Nov 7, 2009)

I've been plowing with a manual trans since I was 14 now 22. Plowed with an automatic truck for one season while I worked for a friend. I prefer the manual trans. More control and less boring. Also my current truck has a much lower 1st gear or granny gear as some call it which I quite like for plowing driveways, has the power to push the snow while still moving slow enough to have traction and maintain control of the truck. A large plus when plowing residential accounts


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

thesnowman269;1775019 said:


> I've been plowing with a manual trans since I was 14 now 22. Plowed with an automatic truck for one season while I worked for a friend. I prefer the manual trans. More control and less boring. Also my current truck has a much lower 1st gear or granny gear as some call it which I quite like for plowing driveways, has the power to push the snow while still moving slow enough to have traction and maintain control of the truck. A large plus when plowing residential accounts


I been plowing with a stick since 1987 and I have done driveways with it and with a auto I rather plow driveways with a auto you can inch a long and go slower and not slip the clutch
Now out in lots I rather be in a manual and with my MVP I love busting drifts with it


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Antlerart06;1775020 said:


> I been plowing with a stick since 1987 and I have done driveways with it and with a auto I rather plow driveways with a auto you can inch a long and go slower and not slip the clutch
> Now out in lots I rather be in a manual and with my MVP I love busting drifts with it


Except that you're slipping the torque converter and building heat with it -- and heat murders automatic transmissions. Remember that automatics are geared HIGHER than manual, which ultimately means MORE slipping.

Want to plow driveways slow and in control without any "slipping" of anything or undue heat production? Manual in low range 1st gear. My driveway has a tight spot between a brick chimney and a fence that gives literally only 3-4 inches clearance on both sides beyond the mirrors. No problem and no slipping in 1st gear low, and the range of speed is quite fine. That's riding on an overall ratio of 41.5:1, yielding a WHEEL rpm range of 18 to 120.5 rpm (at engine speed from 750 to 5000 rpm, leaving 500 rpm to spare on the upper range so as not to ride against the governor). Wheel diameter is 30.5 inches, so actual speed range is 1.63 to 10.93 miles per hour. No need to go any faster than that doing a driveway. Lot or road, yes of course, but for that you have high range and/or gears 2-5.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

When a toque converter is not locked up it does not result in the tranny slipping or any slip for that matter.

Few if any lock up in 1st or 2nd.
regardless of what range your in Lo or Hi.
The toque converter is not locked up.

Most run 2 tranny coolers, one in the radiator and a AUX mounted in front of the radiator.
Today with synthetic transmission fluid it's even harder to "burn" the fluid.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

SnoFarmer;1792360 said:


> When a toque converter is not locked up it does not result in the tranny slipping or any slip for that matter.
> 
> Few if any lock up in 1st or 2nd.
> regardless of what range your in Lo or Hi.
> ...


Don't bother trying to explain anything to him


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

That was the impression I was getting.

I can be thick headed too at times but there is a difference.



Whiffyspark;1792493 said:


> Don't bother trying to explain anything to him


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

jasonv;1792324 said:


> Except that you're slipping the torque converter and building heat with it -- and heat murders automatic transmissions. Remember that automatics are geared HIGHER than manual, which ultimately means MORE slipping.
> 
> Want to plow driveways slow and in control without any "slipping" of anything or undue heat production? Manual in low range 1st gear. My driveway has a tight spot between a brick chimney and a fence that gives literally only 3-4 inches clearance on both sides beyond the mirrors. No problem and no slipping in 1st gear low, and the range of speed is quite fine. That's riding on an overall ratio of 41.5:1, yielding a WHEEL rpm range of 18 to 120.5 rpm (at engine speed from 750 to 5000 rpm, leaving 500 rpm to spare on the upper range so as not to ride against the governor). Wheel diameter is 30.5 inches, so actual speed range is 1.63 to 10.93 miles per hour. No need to go any faster than that doing a driveway. Lot or road, yes of course, but for that you have high range and/or gears 2-5.


LOL that's some BS there Im sorry You better listen to SnoFarmer

And you don't think you wont be slipping cultch trying inch forward

Plow drives slow use a auto and put it in low side

Maybe my manual is to high gear VS your manual 
Mine has 373 gears so I can back up faster and my First gear is higher I plow a lot in First gear some times going to 2nd
My Auto F350 it has 410 gears since its a 5.4 motor


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## gasjr4wd (Feb 14, 2010)

SnoFarmer;1792360 said:


> When a toque converter is not locked up it does not result in the tranny slipping or any slip for that matter.


Guess that is sorta technically correct. The trans doesn't slip. The converter slips.
Do you even know how they work? It's an oil slinger.
I've plowed for 20 years with a little suz sammy 5sp stick on the same clutch. Now plow with a Dodge Cummins auto. Two totally different animals and techniques.
Both are tools. Knowing how to use the tool correct way is always best.
And to the other postings, rather than talk the axle gearing, talk about the trans gearing. That is what was meant about how a auto is geared higher. The TC is like a torque multiplier... by slipping it gives the impression of a lower first gear. Want to change that? Change the TC with a different stall speed...
Using low range with the transfer case will raise the engine RPM's and give you a better chance of the TC locking. Or, many people install a little toggle switch. I confess I tried plowing with the Dodge in low once, and once only. Life is too short to do it again.
Yes, in a previous life I worked in a trans shop.


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