# Best sidewalk machine?



## pipelayer (Oct 6, 2013)

Hey all looking to purchase a UTV or enclosed cab small tractor or skid steer. Need some insight in which would be the best machine.. 

looking for something versatile like the Kubota UTV so I can use a small v plow a blower, as both can be utilized in several applications.

I’m looking for the best machine to do city walks around 2 buildings that make up a “block” 
They are about 6-8 feet wide but one side has telephone poles in between about 2/3 of the width. This particular building has an open air area on the top of the parking garage that can be utilized by small machine and blower, as well as a “driveway” that a truck could fit up but again, small machine with plow would do the job efficiently. That being said, I’d like to transport it to this clients other site and do their large walks there as well.
My question is which is the best machine for it? I don’t plan on salting this very heavy as a good bit of it is pavers, (they’ve plowed and used blowers on them in the past)
I’m trying to stay away from the snowrator in all honesty, I want to be out of the elements, my options in my head are the small bobcat s70 ? I believe is that little guy? A John Deere loader tractor with a blower and cab. Or the UTV. If anyone has anything else feel free to add input, and pictures, and most importantly, model numbers. Thanks in advance


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

budget?
It’s pretty late in the season, do you have eyes on any of these machines?
Also consider ventrac/ Steiner


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Kinda answered your own question. The RTV is the best all work UTV on the market.


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## JoeRagMan (Nov 5, 2018)

Employer where I worked had two Steiner tractors, snowblower, plow and rotary broom for winter sidewalk service. They had twin cylinder Kohler engines, did a great job with most any snowfall. Later on, traded those in for two Kubota RTV 900’s. No snow removal attachments as snow removal was contracted out by then. I can say, Kubota 3 cylinder diesels were great, started in the coldest weather, plenty of power. I retired before they needed a major service ( things like oil change for front steering knuckles,etc.)


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## pipelayer (Oct 6, 2013)

BossPlow2010 said:


> budget?
> It's pretty late in the season, do you have eyes on any of these machines?
> Also consider ventrac/ Steiner


yeah I understand, these contracts are getting added late, so hence the reasoning for buying in November. 
I do have eyes on a UTV, and in the mid 20s to 30k


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

You can get a pretty new kubota with plow and or blower for 20-30k


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

@Ajlawn1 may have a ventrac with cab for sale???


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

He needs a sweet 3400y Ventrac...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Damn...


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

A Jeep would be most versatile. You can drive it down the road rater than trailering.
What's the narrowest width?


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/cab-kubota-b7610.181770/


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

EWSplow said:


> A Jeep would be most versatile. You can drive it down the road rater than trailering.
> What's the narrowest width?


Well he said 2/3 
And it's 6-8 feet wide.
So some quick fantasy island high school math, we get…
4-5.3 feet for the widest points, and 2-2.6 feet for the narrowest points.

knowing that, I'd pick a machine for your widest width, and just use a hand shovel on those narrow spots…


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Well he said 2/3
> And it's 6-8 feet wide.
> So some quick fantasy island high school math, we get…
> 4-5.3 feet for the widest points, and 2-2.6 feet for the narrowest points.
> ...


And, that is why I have a UTV plow on a jeep...


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Used Bobcat S185 or smaller, 753, 743b with a 5’ snow bucket and heated cab. 2 speed would be a luxury to get to the top of the parking garage, but unnecessary. Plus when the city plows in your walks you can move and push heavy snow much easier. Most likely looking at same trailer as a UTV.
Price? $10-15k with snow tires. Heck, buy 2 and get done sooner.
Only problem I see is maybe not on the pavers, but you did say they plowed them before.


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## pipelayer (Oct 6, 2013)

m_ice said:


> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/cab-kubota-b7610.181770/


This would be awesome. Just called him, he's in CT so local as can be for me. Thank you.


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## pipelayer (Oct 6, 2013)

m_ice said:


> You can get a pretty new kubota with plow and or blower for 20-30k


Saw a few for sale by me. They want mid 20s for a 2016 with a plow, no blower. 
if it can be closer to 20 and I can work a blower in there somewhere I'd go for it.


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## pipelayer (Oct 6, 2013)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Kinda answered your own question. The RTV is the best all work UTV on the market.


Yeah I get that. Just wanted to hear from guys who actually use them for snow work. I worked a small farm where we used them as trucks for everything but, never any actual attachments or plows or anything of the sort.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Don’t buy it as a toy. Lots of guys are guilty of this right now. Over paying for cool new or used machines that don’t actually help them make money. Only you know that. I was guilty of this once. But there are many more money wasting options now.


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## SilverPine (Dec 7, 2018)

We use an RTV 1100. Works great for what we need it for. It is not good for standard 48" sidewalks, bit too wide.


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## concreteguy (Nov 10, 2006)

Bobcat S70 with a blower or a plow. If you need to sell later, it’s not a snow specific machine


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

I just picked up an older well used Kubota F3680 (it was cheap, rusty, but runs like a top) so I'm looking forward to seeing how that one will turn out. But it seems like with a bit of spit and polish it will be a good fit. Small enough to run down a 60" sidewalk without any trouble, power to push, 4wd, rear steer, cab, heat, lights, etc. Much better than a stick plow (last year's plan).

We also have a Kubota UTV, but ours is the XG850 gasser. I know, a gasser. But 850cc gives plenty of push. Put the BOSS v-plow on it, we have to upgrade the front struts to the 1100 diesels (have them on the shelf). Biggest reason we went that route is that it's considerably lighter than the 1100, price point (at that time) was much better, and it actually breaks 25MPH. Top speed on it is about 40, and you won't have pedestrians passing by you in reverse. We use it on one site, a large factory, so it stays out of the salt for the most part.

But the largest challenge we have faced is when we've built sidewalk tractors. As you can likely figure out, we buy alot of orange. Our dealer is very close by, and has been a huge help over the years, so we are pretty loyal to them. I've never been a huge fan of the B-series, they seem just too small and light for commercial use. So we've primarily used L-series, in fact L6060's for all our smaller tractors. I think there's 6 of them out there now. Two of them are on sites where we not only clear all the driveways, but also do the municipal sidewalks. I'm not about to purchase another unit just for the sidewalks, when we can build a L6060 narrow enough to fit down the 60" walk. Or so we thought, as the sidewalk is not always guaranteed to be at a 60" minimum. It appears the concrete contractors find ways to trim an inch or two out of them from time to time. And then because we run a tall narrow tire, if you fall off the edge, and there's no frost - you're tilling up the adjacent ground pretty badly. Especially when it snows April 21st and the next week you're cutting the lawn in the same spot. The amount of sod repair incurred easily warrants investing in some kind of solution. But that proves easier said then done.

We went on a mission to see if you can get the front of an L6060 narrower than 60", and finally figured it out (we think). Started with trying to find a wheel/rim with +ve offset. Took a bit, but found some. The issue becomes the planetary on the front axle 4WD would interfere with a direct 16" replacement. So how to clear the planetary? Go to a bigger rim that will allow for clearance. Would 18" be enough? Better go 20". Then figure out what your overall diameter of the wheel is limited to, otherwise you're gonna mess up the 4WD ratio. Diameter has to be 31.1", now to find a tire that will work. Ended up finding a dedicated LT snow tire (weight rated), and made the combo work. Got 2.5 inches narrower - doesn't seem like much, but now the footprint of the entire tire should be inside the edges of the concrete, and not prone to falling off the edges.

At least that's the plan - I'm only doing one for now to see how it works out.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

concreteguy said:


> Bobcat S70 with a blower or a plow. If you need to sell later, it's not a snow specific machine







And a broom


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

EWSplow said:


> And a broom


They're great if you're built like a 16yr old girl...


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> They're great if you're built like a 16yr old girl...


I've never been in one. I guess I've never paid attention to how tight the cab might be.
Come to think of it, I was on a job a few years ago and they street in front was repaved, new curbs, etc. The company doing the landscape restoration was using one. There was a big guy in the S70 and a girl and a couple guys laying sod, etc.
Maybe they squeezed him inside in the morning and winched him out at the end of the day? I never saw him get out.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

EWSplow said:


> I've never been in one. I guess I've never paid attention to how tight the cab might be.
> Come to think of it, I was on a job a few years ago and they street in front was repaved, new curbs, etc. The company doing the landscape restoration was using one. There was a big guy in the S70 and a girl and a couple guys laying sod, etc.
> Maybe they squeezed him inside in the morning and winched him out at the end of the day? I never saw him get out.


I've been in one, it's crazy small in there.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Very true, but a pretty limited market for that size machine


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

This just in from Ariens(if you can trust Ariens).

https://www.ariens.com/en-us/power-equipment/snow-products/vehicle/mammoth


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Video!! I like this option but $$$.


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

This season we will be using a Kubota Orchard Tractor with a 60" straight plow and drop spreader on the back. We'll let you know how it works out


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Herm Witte said:


> This season we will be using a Kubota Orchard Tractor with a 60" straight plow and drop spreader on the back. We'll let you know how it works out


Probably the best of both worlds...speed and a heated cab!


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## Dang198231 (Nov 15, 2021)

Check out the Wacker wl32 great small wheel loader


pipelayer said:


> Hey all looking to purchase a UTV or enclosed cab small tractor or skid steer. Need some insight in which would be the best machine..
> 
> looking for something versatile like the Kubota UTV so I can use a small v plow a blower, as both can be utilized in several applications.
> 
> ...


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Trackless MT 5 , heated cab , articulated steering , cummins engine and fast travel speed . Lots of different attachments for the front and salter - sander on the back .


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## pipelayer (Oct 6, 2013)

I appreciate all the responses, and I like the L series as well, and a Kubota dealer is very close and I’ve dealt with them for a personal machine for a long time. 
I found a used, older Steiner 525 with a blower and I plan to make a move on it today, however something with a small plow would still be very beneficial so I’m going to look into the cost of a Kubota with a plow and blower option for another site, and for the future. I’ll see if I can put the links up and share my findings so far.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

pipelayer said:


> I appreciate all the responses, and I like the L series as well, and a Kubota dealer is very close and I've dealt with them for a personal machine for a long time.
> I found a used, older Steiner 525 with a blower and I plan to make a move on it today, however something with a small plow would still be very beneficial so I'm going to look into the cost of a Kubota with a plow and blower option for another site, and for the future. I'll see if I can put the links up and share my findings so far.


I've seen Steiner attachments on CL occasionally. Look around and you may find a blade, or other stuff.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Different twist on a sidewalk rig


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Different twist on a sidewalk rig


Phile Defcon video...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Hoo?


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

BUFF said:


> Different twist on a sidewalk rig


Yes, Video!!
That looks cold…
And humongous…


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

BUFF said:


> Different twist on a sidewalk rig


Vintage sidewalk machine


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## Treeboy (Nov 8, 2017)

I have the kubota rtv1100 k connect broom blower and salter. I really love this thing. Even thought its kind of a contraption with 3 power systems to run front attachments they all work together great i thought it would struggle w -25hp but it only needs to slow down at a few high drifting spots. I will get a turbo this off season to help road speed. I was really surprised the broom will clear half ac parking lots quickly. 

In tight lots where snow needs backdragged or pushed one way then the other to end up in right spot i just run ovals and turn the blower chute its way faster than the pickup. 

Last year we were scheduled for 1" max and 12" landed. We didnt even have walk behind sidewalk blowers (just push snow shovels) or plow on truck it was weekend anyway. My goal was just keep the place open and manageable when it stops. I did half a mile of walks and 2 small lots non stop. It will blow 2" powder at 9mph the blower floats perfectly and vehicle rides great. That snow the volume it moved per hr we could see afterwards and it was really impressive.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Treeboy said:


> I will get a turbo this off season to help road speed.


How will a turbo help with road speed, assuming you talking aboot increasing top speed.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BUFF said:


> How will a turbo help with road speed, assuming you talking aboot increasing top speed.


Science


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Treeboy said:


> I have the kubota rtv1100 k connect broom blower and salter. I really love this thing. Even thought its kind of a contraption with 3 power systems to run front attachments they all work together great i thought it would struggle w -25hp but it only needs to slow down at a few high drifting spots. I will get a turbo this off season to help road speed. I was really surprised the broom will clear half ac parking lots quickly.
> 
> In tight lots where snow needs backdragged or pushed one way then the other to end up in right spot i just run ovals and turn the blower chute its way faster than the pickup.
> 
> Last year we were scheduled for 1" max and 12" landed. We didnt even have walk behind sidewalk blowers (just push snow shovels) or plow on truck it was weekend anyway. My goal was just keep the place open and manageable when it stops. I did half a mile of walks and 2 small lots non stop. It will blow 2" powder at 9mph the blower floats perfectly and vehicle rides great. That snow the volume it moved per hr we could see afterwards and it was really impressive.


A turbo won't/will not add to top speed. It will get you there faster, help pushing/pulling/hauling just not with top speed.

I have a 1100c with 29in mudders, that helps too speed over the factory 24/25inch tires.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> A turbo won't/will not add to top speed. It will get you there faster, help pushing/pulling/hauling just not with top speed.
> 
> I have a 1100c with 29in mudders, that helps too speed over the factory 24/25inch tires.


Yeah I was going to recommend larger tires too


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

m_ice said:


> Yeah I was going to recommend larger tires too


Larger rims too?


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Larger rims too?


Ultimately the rims wouldn't matter would they? Unless increased rim size would offer a larger Tyre size


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

m_ice said:


> Ultimately the rims wouldn't matter would they? Unless increased rim size would offer a larger Tyre size


Nevermind...


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Larger rims too?


DEPENDS ON HOW MULCH BALLAST


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

m_ice said:


> Ultimately the rims wouldn't matter would they? Unless increased rim size would offer a larger Tyre size


Yes, got to roll with at least 20's...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> DEPENDS ON HOW MULCH BALLAST


OK


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Some of you guys must have huge width sidewalks if you can fit a kubota rtv on them. Generally 48"inch maximum width around here. Kubota RTV don't do them.

Our choice.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Ice-sage said:


> Some of you guys must have huge width sidewalks if you can fit a kubota rtv on them. Generally 48"inch maximum width around here. Kubota RTV don't do them.
> 
> Our choice.


4 videos?!?!? 
You just won Plowsite until 2022. Congrats!!
Pretty cool little machine.
How much $$$ for the machine? And of course, how much more $$$ for each attachment?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ice-sage said:


> Some of you guys must have huge width sidewalks if you can fit a kubota rtv on them. Generally 48"inch maximum width around here. Kubota RTV don't do them.
> 
> Our choice.


Any vids of your machine?


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Those videos are Holder promo videos. 

We use Zaugg snow blowers and Schmidt brushes and v-plows. Implemented and attached correctly and with great operators in the seat, we are way faster and efficient than what you see in the promo videos.

We do make videos(also collect gigabytes of video and data while each machine is in use), but they are private for company and client use.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Oh right, don't want the new owners of the plowsite to lay claim to it.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Ice-sage said:


> Those videos are Holder promo videos.
> 
> We use Zaugg snow blowers and Schmidt brushes and v-plows. Implemented and attached correctly and with great operators in the seat, we are way faster and efficient than what you see in the promo videos.
> 
> We do make videos(also collect gigabytes of video and data while each machine is in use), but they are private for company and client use.


I'd settle for a pic, they sound pretty mice


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Oh right, don't want the new owners of the plowsite to lay claim to it.


Good point, I'll therefore settle for a pic of the galvanized / ceramic coating undercarriage. Shirley this shouldn't be an issue.


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

I wonder if those holders are any more reliable than the 992 and the previous 9.78 machines....... :laughing: 

Website says operator weight of 165 lbs (imperial lbs not metric), pretty sure some cookie tins weigh more than that.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

UpNorthMowing said:


> I wonder if those holders are any more reliable than the 992 and the previous 9.78 machines....... :laughing:
> 
> Website says operator weight of 165 lbs (imperial lbs not metric), pretty sure some cookie tins weigh more than that.


I weigh more than that because of cookie tins!


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

UpNorthMowing said:


> I wonder if those holders are any more reliable than the 992 and the previous 9.78 machines....... :laughing:
> 
> Website says operator weight of 165 lbs (imperial lbs not metric), pretty sure some cookie tins weigh more than that.


Huh? to operator weight?

This is the third time someone has just outright bashed Holder for reliability issues. I've only seen, read and searched and found 17 threads with issues or maintenence things with Holder tractors. I would say that is dam impressive.(obviously there are only probably between 2000 and 3000 of these machines in the US and Canadastan)

You can find 10's of thousands(actually over 100k) of posts and threads on the crap reliability, problems, issues and maintenence of Ford, Dodge, GM(Chevy) and every other plow manufacturer and commercial machine, box spreader et cetera. And they keep coming daily.

We have not had a single issue with the X45i's since we procured them. They do a ton of miles of sidewalks and other miscellaneous tasks and work we make them do. We also have operators that give a hoot about the equipment they use. Have pride in their work. Totally different scenario than most winter maintenence companies I see working around here.

We had reliability problems often with most US equipment we tried initially. Sure they all get the job done. Since going with European machines and implements we have never looked back. Way less problems and issues or things ever breaking. Our maintenence and parts and fix-it logs and our in-house mechanic prove this to be 100% the case.

Don't knock it till ya try it.

Ps. This isn't about "buy American!!". Its a global system. All whities are European sillies. We use and pay for the best equipment with the least issues, that really does do the best job we can get our hands on.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ice-sage said:


> Huh? to operator weight?
> 
> This is the third time someone has just outright bashed Holder for reliability issues. I've only seen, read and searched and found 17 threads with issues or maintenence things with Holder tractors. I would say that is dam impressive.(obviously there are only probably between 2000 and 3000 of these machines in the US and Canadastan)
> 
> ...


Speaking of not knocking it before you try it...you might want to practice what you preach. Guessing @upnohas forgotten more about Holder's than you have known.

PS...He's not Murcan.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Ice-sage said:


> Canadastan
> 
> Don't knock it till ya try it.


I agree. Don't knock it until you've tried it


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> I agree. Don't knock it until you've tried it


I have. Dated a wonderful French Canadien woman who was in her 6th year residency(in the USA) to be a doctor. That counts eh? Only reason we parted ways is because she wanted her life and career to be back home in Canada. I wasn't willing to start over in a new country at the time. Se la vie.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Ice-sage said:


> I have. Dated a wonderful French Canadien woman who was in her 6th year residency(in the USA) to be a doctor. That counts eh? Only reason we parted ways is because she wanted her life and career to be back home in Canada. I wasn't willing to start over in a new country at the time. Se la vie.


Bit different than living here... however, she was living there and in a serious relationship and still decided to come back... Canadastan baby :canadaflag:.

Edit : that seriously sucks though that it didn't work out. Have a good buddy where it worked in the opposite direction (he didn't want to move to the US, she didn't want to move to Canada... granted a bit different because he had lived in the states, she had never lived here)

Also, I've heard good things about ventracs when their carbs aren't acting up


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Ice-sage said:


> Huh? to operator weight?
> 
> This is the third time someone has just outright bashed Holder for reliability issues. I've only seen, read and searched and found 17 threads with issues or maintenence things with Holder tractors. I would say that is dam impressive.(obviously there are only probably between 2000 and 3000 of these machines in the US and Canadastan)
> 
> ...


By "this is the third time someone has outright bashed holder" were you just referring to me ? :laugh:

Canadastan is incorrect, its Canuckistan thank you very much.

Maybe the X45i's are a better unit, we have not looked at them because we need the salt capacity of the larger machines. Another reason we have not looked at those tiny machines is because we had one that size about 15 years ago (before my time at the company) and it was a lemon.

Curious how many holder tractors do you have, how many hours are on them and how long have you been running holder equipment?

I know that we will have more issues with our machines because they are used and have 2.5k hours on them and higher. But when you buy a wheel loader do you expect that you have to split the machine at 3k hours because the seals for the drive shafts are leaking...... I would hope not.


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Speaking of not knocking it before you try it...you might want to practice what you preach. Guessing @upnohas forgotten more about Holder's than you have known.
> 
> PS...He's not Murcan.


Wanting to forget more


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

UpNorthMowing said:


> By "this is the third time someone has outright bashed holder" were you just referring to me ?


I know I have read the threads or posts where you have chimed in with your experiences with them. If I recall, you only had 1 major problem with them.



UpNorthMowing said:


> Canadastan is incorrect, its Canuckistan thank you very much.


No "wink" emoji. 



UpNorthMowing said:


> Curious how many holder tractors do you have, how many hours are on them and how long have you been running holder equipment?


We have 2, now back-up S992's, and 5(one as a backup and extra duty machine/possible parts theft machine) new S130's. The S992's are getting close to 3k hours. Crosses fingers we don't have the issue you had. The S130's(minus the back-up) may hit 500 hours by the end of the season. And 5(one backup/extra duty machine) X45i's. Should close in on 300-320 ish hours on them by seasons end. Hope to procure a couple C70's this spring/summer.

No major issues and nothing broken on any machine in almost 5 years.

Could it be we are meticulous in maintenence and cleaning? Everything ceramic or galvanized coating we can touch? We don't wait for wear parts to wear out, wear down completely or break? Have a great relationship with the parent company and engineering and R&D and parts department? We don't generally use the US and Canadien distributors even by proxy? I'd garner that is a yes.

Also a ton of everything I see here on plowsite and on other forums is how the "employees" destroy everything they touch. We don't have that problem. You take all the good practices you learned in life, everything I learned in the military, university, tons and tons of buisness, management books and create a plan that generally only large corporations with thousands of "employees " use to run the buisiness. When you find the right people to entrust the buisness with and groom them properly in all the practices and such to have a safe and pleasant working environment(and never stop that) you will end up with people that love their job/labor. People that never want to leave. People that will do anything to succeed and contribute without question to having the buisness succeed.

That last paragraph in and of itself is also probably one of the largest factors in having equipment that doesn't break. Doesn't have massive pre-wear on things. Just functions and does what it was engineered to do. And do it well these machines do and provide.

To reiterate, even with the care and quality of the people we have, operating US manufactured trucks, machines and equipment, stuff just broke and wore faster all the time. That is not anecdotal. That is a fact.

Not trying to bash manufacturers per say, just relaying our experiences with multitudes of different manufacturers and equipment. Everyone and every buisness can spend their money on whatever equipment they want. It is all of ours choices. I am here to inform that there are other manufacturers and choices to be had. It is the same information everyone else here tells of their experiences as well.

Do your own homework and make the right descisions as what is best for you and your own buisness and your "employess" or hired help.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)




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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Also, I've heard good things about ventracs when their carbs aren't acting up


Debating and finding the time to do my write up on demoing the Ventrac 4500, and the new 4520z. Also the Ventrac SSV. All 3 units with blowers and brooms/brushes.(winter maintenance).


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Hydromaster said:


>


Well pfft...thanks.


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Ice-sage said:


> I know I have read the threads or posts where you have chimed in with your experiences with them. If I recall, you only had 1 major problem with them.
> 
> No "wink" emoji.
> 
> ...


I looked at those s130's what do you plan on using them for ? the cabs on those units are so wide that you cannot use them on regular sidewalks. We were told around 2 years ago that those s130s were potentially getting a narrower cab. Too be fair I am not sure if the width of the s130's are wider to begin with.

Yes we have breakdowns do to employee damaging the machines, but alot of the issues are things failing way more early than you would hope they would.

Just to let you know, 3k hours is when the timing belt for the deutz engine is due to be replaced, pretty sure its 3k hours or 5 years  and since you are in there might as well change the hydraulic belt. If the hydraulic belt goes I am pretty sure you lose your steering and some other functions. You need special deutz pins to lock the engine so engine wont lose its timing.


----------



## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Did you have Trackless machines at 1 time or am I thinking of someone else ?


----------



## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

SHAWZER said:


> Did you have Trackless machines at 1 time or am I thinking of someone else ?


Nope, never had a trackless, probably be better off if we did. The rumour goes at work we had the first holder c500 in North America.


----------



## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

UpNorthMowing said:


> I looked at those s130's what do you plan on using them for ?


On the big boys we use Pronovost PXPL pros on them. They are driveway slaying machines. Usually can be used on anything over 2 inches and up of snow. The big draw to the snow blow(scrape) in and back drag/scrape snow blow out is any surface comes out pristine of any snow, ice or tracks. We did try at first just inverted smash the snow and berm at the end of driveways and rush in and only blow on the way out. With those regular one way back out inverted blowers(normand,pronovost etc.) You can never ever get the surface as clean as with the PXPL inverted blowers blowing and scraping in both directions. We only do residential properties. And we have a ton of wealthier neighborhoods where driveways can average 150-500 foot long easily. Add in the driveway that rounds in front of the house and the parking squares in front of the usual 3 to 5 garage door stalls, no other machine we have tried can top the Holder with the PXPL. Even the large Kubota and John Deere tractors can not do it as efficiently or as fast. They are much bigger than the Holders. Also no plowed up snow on the sides of driveways or anywhere else. Throw that snow where you want with the blowers.

The Schmidt brooms work on literally everything else very effectively.



UpNorthMowing said:


> Just to let you know, 3k hours is when the timing belt for the deutz engine is due to be replaced, pretty sure its 3k hours or 5 years  and since you are in there might as well change the hydraulic belt. If the hydraulic belt goes I am pretty sure you lose your steering and some other functions. You need special deutz pins to lock the engine so engine wont lose its timing.


Our in-house mechanic(magicman) has been through Holder's factory program. And did a Deutz factory program. No worries.


----------



## Treeboy (Nov 8, 2017)

BUFF said:


> How will a turbo help with road speed, assuming you talking aboot increasing top speed.


From what ive seen it will go 25-29 up or down hill. Now it goes 25+ down hill 17 flat ground and ive gone as slow as 9mph up a long hill loaded. I have a job 7mi away and a gas station w diesel a mile or two from the job so i can ditch the cans it will save a lot of time. I found out how much man power i can save if i go to my smaller acct on any size snow.

The machine is not like a skid steer where u have a surplus of power and low gearing its low power and higher gearing. Everybody loves this thing i get compliments nearly every time i stop. I could probably add on a few small lots if it roaded faster.


----------



## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Ice-sage said:


> On the big boys we use Pronovost PXPL pros on them. They are driveway slaying machines. Usually can be used on anything over 2 inches and up of snow. The big draw to the snow blow(scrape) in and back drag/scrape snow blow out is any surface comes out pristine of any snow, ice or tracks. We did try at first just inverted smash the snow and berm at the end of driveways and rush in and only blow on the way out. With those regular one way back out inverted blowers(normand,pronovost etc.) You can never ever get the surface as clean as with the PXPL inverted blowers blowing and scraping in both directions. We only do residential properties. And we have a ton of wealthier neighborhoods where driveways can average 150-500 foot long easily. Add in the driveway that rounds in front of the house and the parking squares in front of the usual 3 to 5 garage door stalls, no other machine we have tried can top the Holder with the PXPL. Even the large Kubota and John Deere tractors can not do it as efficiently or as fast. They are much bigger than the Holders. Also no plowed up snow on the sides of driveways or anywhere else. Throw that snow where you want with the blowers.
> 
> The Schmidt brooms work on literally everything else very effectively.
> 
> Our in-house mechanic(magicman) has been through Holder's factory program. And did a Deutz factory program. No worries.


There was alot of holders set up with back drag blades and broadcast spreaders at the dealer for months a while back. I heard the deal fell through and they were selling them for a long time.

Head mechanic at the holder dealer was having a nightmare with the tier 5 emissions on s130 but that was pre-production.

Just wondering if your 992 has a salter on the back, and if so how do your operators like turning on the salter ? That has to be one of the worst designed features. Having to either to holder a soft button for 2 seconds and look for a red light to turn on, to know if the salter is running. Or you can re-wire a solenoid to have it run on the joystick. I would be amazed if you hadn't had to replace one of those boards yet.

The older models had a dedicated switch for the salter hydraulics, it was too convenient so they had to replace it with a 2.5k board.......


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

I think I saw the wacker wl32 was mentioned here, we have 2 setup as sidewalk machines, used to have 3 setup, but we lost some work so one is back in wheel loader form. Wont have to worry about the front lift arms wearing out like the holder tractors. 

The blades on the wacker wl32's are well built. but they have one 60" cutting edge, so when you clip a sidewalk with those its violent ! We could probably cut blade it in half. The construction of trip edge is very similar to the metec plows. 

Some hoses rub at the articulation point, but we replaced about 7 hoses and installed some rubber to prevent the hoses from wearing early.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'm slightly confused...we went from Holder's on sidewalks to Holder's on driveways. 

FWIW, a Holder would be of zero use to me on all but one of my sidewalk routes. They're too big, we'd end up shoveling more than clearing with the Holder. 

So it most certainly is not the best machine for me.


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm slightly confused...we went from Holder's on sidewalks to Holder's on driveways.
> 
> FWIW, a Holder would be of zero use to me on all but one of my sidewalk routes. They're too big, we'd end up shoveling more than clearing with the Holder.
> 
> So it most certainly is not the best machine for me.


Those s130's have wide cabs, (since kaercher bought out holder the kaercher website suck, not as easy to get pictures) you can sit two operators side by each.

I guess since the cabs on the 992 are so small that you can barely fit a lunch box in the cab, they decided to make the newer model so wide you can't use the larger high HP machines on sidewalks


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

UpNorthMowing said:


> There was alot of holders set up with back drag blades and broadcast spreaders at the dealer for months a while back. I heard the deal fell through and they were selling them for a long time.
> 
> Head mechanic at the holder dealer was having a nightmare with the tier 5 emissions on s130 but that was pre-production.
> 
> ...


Yes we saw a whole fleet of them for sale on Kiij. Should have jumped on a few of them. Could have gotten some really good deals on them. I'm talking 70k off each machine including the inverted blowers and salters.

We don't do salting or ice maintenence with them. The two 992's we have left have the original much simpler switch banks.

Duetz has been pretty good to us so far. We had the updated emissons units thank goodness.


----------



## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm slightly confused...we went from Holder's on sidewalks to Holder's on driveways.
> 
> FWIW, a Holder would be of zero use to me on all but one of my sidewalk routes. They're too big, we'd end up shoveling more than clearing with the Holder.
> 
> So it most certainly is not the best machine for me.


@UpNorthMowing asked me a question.

Holder makes 5 different sized machines, technically. Although there is not a ton of varrying widths per say. More lenght and height and weight and power.

All machines can theorhetically do driveways. They can all do sidewalks if you need them to. Even the largest Holder S130 could do 48 inch walks. With the right tires you would just have roughly 3.5 inches overhang on each side if a 48 inch wide sidewalk. Kind of like a Ventrac being a bit wider than a 48 inch sidewalk as well. Our city uses the largest Prinroths(Trackless) on all city sidewalks(48 inch generally about 97% of them) and paved trails(7 foot wide). They are wider than the 48 inch walks too. Still get er done. Not a ton of turf damage.

You would be surprised how well the X45i little Holders do on intricate sidewalks. With a competent operator they do in our eyes a better job than a Ventrac SSV by quite a stretch.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

UpNorthMowing said:


> Those s130's have wide cabs, (since kaercher bought out holder the kaercher website suck, not as easy to get pictures) you can sit two operators side by each.
> 
> I guess since the cabs on the 992 are so small that you can barely fit a lunch box in the cab, they decided to make the newer model so wide you can't use the larger high HP machines on sidewalks
> 
> View attachment 228695


There are 3 different seating versions. Two single seat versions and the dual seat version you posted. All of ours except one are the single seat variety. We accepted a dual seat version as our back-up machine for the purpose of it really is a great machine to train operators in. We also got a killer deal on that dual seat model as well. Too good to pass up.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

It might be to wide for a lot of sidewalks.
One of the larger prinoth's 









Being on the sidewalk crew must be a coveted job?


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Nice!

Who doesn't want to be in a heated enclosed cab for doing sidewalks?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> It might be to wide for a lot of sidewalks.
> One of the larger prinoth's
> View attachment 228995
> 
> ...


Needs a winch boom for technical walks...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ice-sage said:


> You would be surprised how well the X45i little Holders do on intricate sidewalks. With a competent operator they do in our eyes a better job than a Ventrac SSV by quite a stretch.


Coolio for you.

Many of our walks we couldn't even fit one of the Holders on, so your definition of intricate is far different than mine. We'd spend all night turning around, backing up, and generally not getting anything done.

On top of that, it is too wide to be used during the day.

So the SSV (other than the flaming POS Kawakaze powerplant) is the most efficient sidewalk machine I have ever used or seen used. For our intricate walks. I only have 1 sidewalk route that a Holder of any size would work. I don't remember right off hand, it's either 2.3 miles or 3.2, all city walks.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Coolio for you.
> 
> Many of our walks we couldn't even fit one of the Holders on, so your definition of intricate is far different than mine. We'd spend all night turning around, backing up, and generally not getting anything done.
> 
> ...


Guy I plow for got a SSV with a V plow this year, saw it in use over the weekend and was pretty impressed with how tight of an area you can get it.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Guy I plow for got a SSV with a V plow this year, saw it in use over the weekend and was pretty impressed with how tight of an area you can get it.


Haven't pulled the trigger on a Vplow yet. I might, maybe after another SSV is in the fleet.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Haven't pulled the trigger on a Vplow yet. I might, maybe after another SSV is in the fleet.


Might add he had no issues with the carb freezing.... Guess your ranting to Ventrac may have had something to do with it....


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

BUFF said:


> Might add he had no issues with the carb freezing.... Guess your ranting to Ventrac may have had something to do with it....


Do they come full of hot air?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BUFF said:


> Might add he had no issues with the carb freezing.... Guess your ranting to Ventrac may have had something to do with it....


You probably don't get as cold as Meatchickin...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Might add he had no issues with the carb freezing.... Guess your ranting to Ventrac may have had something to do with it....


Weird how that extra metal around the enjin holds the hot air in and keeps it from happening. Now they just need to lose the Kawakaze.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

What don't you like about the Kawasaki on the SSV? I did think it seemed quite a bit underpowered. We only demoed it for one storm. 
But the 32.5 hp Kubota on the new 4520z isn't too shabby. (Still would be better to have at least 40hp) Has its moments. Felt a bit more improved over the 4500 we tried. Especially the hydraulics. But good lord the thing is as loud as an airplane.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You probably don't get as cold as Meatchickin...


Was around cero oot


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ice-sage said:


> What don't you like about the Kawasaki on the SSV? I did think it seemed quite a bit underpowered. We only demoed it for one storm.
> But the 32.5 hp Kubota on the new 4520z isn't too shabby. (Still would be better to have at least 40hp) Has its moments. Felt a bit more improved over the 4500 we tried. Especially the hydraulics. But good lord the thing is as loud as an airplane.


I have a distinct dislike for Kaws. Just have had more problems with them over the years than Kohlers or B&S. It isn't underpowered, but we would like heated handlebars.

The 4500 and 4520 have their place and I'll likely own one someday, but not for everything. Same reason the Holders won't work for me on most of my routes.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Was around cero oot


We haven't had as mulch cold temps as that year, but it has never happened since the extra sheet metal was added.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Speaking of not knocking it before you try it..





Mark Oomkes said:


> Holders won't work for me on most of my routes.


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## Gr8WhiteNorth (Sep 27, 2007)

The debate continues. We have tried so many machines. I’ll agree the Holder Tractor is pretty great. ours is a 2014 C480, going on year 4 for us. We use a brush for smaller events and snow blower for anything over 4”. It’s a good solution for sidewalks 60”+ that run straight. Smaller walks we use our Rogue Maverick or Bobcat MT85. ATV with plows work well on sidewalks 50”+, but our City banned them.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> The debate continues. We have tried so many machines. I'll agree the Holder Tractor is pretty great. ours is a 2014 C480, going on year 4 for us. We use a brush for smaller events and snow blower for anything over 4". It's a good solution for sidewalks 60"+ that run straight. Smaller walks we use our Rogue Maverick or Bobcat MT85. ATV with plows work well on sidewalks 50"+, but our City banned them.


Why did they ban them??


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> The debate continues. We have tried so many machines. I'll agree the Holder Tractor is pretty great. ours is a 2014 C480, going on year 4 for us. We use a brush for smaller events and snow blower for anything over 4". It's a good solution for sidewalks 60"+ that run straight. Smaller walks we use our Rogue Maverick or Bobcat MT85. ATV with plows work well on sidewalks 50"+, but our City banned them.


What's your thoughts on the rogue maverick?


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)




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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

?? Where is this roguesnow.com? Nothing on the googler shows any viable company or anything for sale.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Was livingstone not on this forum posting for a while?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Again, a 1 trick pony...if that's what you need great, I guess. 

I need a machine that will apply salt and/or liquids.


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## Gr8WhiteNorth (Sep 27, 2007)

Ya, that’s my video. The product was good but Boss filed a lawsuit for patent infringement, so the owners shut down the company.
the Boss Snowrator seems like a decent machine. id get a Toro Multiforce if they added a spreader.


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## Gr8WhiteNorth (Sep 27, 2007)

I’ve been busy raising my family and building the biz. We took a big step a couple years ago by buying a bigger location for adding a garden centre, shop, and offices. Now the mortgage is almost as big as the equipment payment!


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Gr8WhiteNorth said:


> Ya, that's my video. The product was good but Boss filed a lawsuit for patent infringement, so the owners shut down the company.
> the Boss Snowrator seems like a decent machine. id get a Toro Multiforce if they added a spreader.


Going to have to look that up on PACER. Should shed some light on this industry. Toro is Boss and Boss is Toro. Figures the monolithic corporation will try and dispell a little innovation from the little guys through the patent office at all cost.

From the videos it sure looks like the Rogue is way more smoother in the 4 wheel hydraulic system than the snowrator or the SSV. We demoed both the Snowrator and the SSV and were very put off by the system itself in the movement of the machines. Super sketchy to say the least. I would go so far as to say dangerous to any operator. It was the defining factor on those machines. Super dangerous.(lol the demo guy got tossed off of the SSV)

No thanks.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Ice-sage said:


> Toro is Boss and Boss is Toro.


Everyone is Toro including Ventcrap...


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Everyone is Toro including Ventcrap...


I'm I Toro??
Because I wanna be Toro…


----------



## snoboss (Oct 19, 2012)




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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

For wider walks....or alley..


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I thought Shultz drove Klink?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BUFF said:


> For wider walks....or alley..


Kannadian teenagers... SMH...


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

BUFF said:


> For wider walks....or alley..


These guys video!! 
What happens if they hit a crack or manhole cover or something immovable?? Pain!


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

WIPensFan said:


> These guys video!!
> What happens if they hit a crack or manhole cover or something immovable?? Pain!


Vodka takes care of the pain...


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

How about this machine?


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

We have a lot of Avant dealers in the USA now.


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

I thought by the time I got back on the PC, I would see a video of the holder s130 and pictures of the cab interior :terribletowel:


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Had to lift the cab on a holder two days ago to change a hydraulic line. Whomever though it would be a good idea to put a hydraulic block at front of the machine where the cab hinges is brilliant ! 

I was going to take pictures, but It never ended up happening.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Apparently you or your mechnic never went to Holder or Duetz to get "certified". Sure saves alot of headaches knowing your way around very specific manufacturers machines. 

Still don't know why you keep coming into this thread to complain about one manufacturers machine. Maybe start a new manufacturer thread in the right forum here on plowsite with the rest of the American made junk in those threads. Title it "European junk" if that floats your boat.

This thread is labeled "Best sidewalk machine". It leaves it open to all posters posting about any manufacturers machines. But you seem to want to turn it into a "bash" one specific manufacturers machines that you STILL USE because it is the best at what it does. And I am the other side of your equation as we have not had any of the issues you have had. But hey I could totally disrupt the thread and state every single detail and problem about every other American made machine we have used. It'd take up 100 pages or more that is for sure.

Keep your head up brother! Winter is about half over. Look to the brighter side and contribute some other ideas or machines you have pondered over or found out about. That is what the thread is about in a nutshell.


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Ice-sage said:


> Apparently you or your mechnic never went to Holder or Duetz to get "certified". Sure saves alot of headaches knowing your way around very specific manufacturers machines.
> 
> Still don't know why you keep coming into this thread to complain about one manufacturers machine. Maybe start a new manufacturer thread in the right forum here on plowsite with the rest of the American made junk in those threads. Title it "European junk" if that floats your boat.
> 
> ...


Wait until you own these machines long term, but if you don't, I would hope you don't have any issues. Keeping these machines for years is a risk we know that, but some of the breakdowns and fighting wiring issues on them gets on your nerves over time.

The mechanic has been working on these tractors for 34 years, so I think he may know "your way around very specific manufacturers machines."


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

How about multihog

https://www.multihog.com/vehicles/cx-tractor


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

or the Wille

https://www.willemachines.com/machines/275


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Awesome! Don't know anything about the Wille machines. Interesting.

Have done a bit of homework on the Multihogs/ones. In 2 weeks when we stroll through Colorado I hope there is snow or snowing because we get test drive one finally. Should be exciting either way.

About the Holders. Yes we plan to turn them every 10 years. When we do have issues I will be back here on plowsite chimming in about them. Obviously only on the specific models we may have issues with.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Ice-sage said:


> Awesome! Don't know anything about the Wille machines. Interesting.
> 
> Have done a bit of homework on the Multihogs/ones. In 2 weeks when we stroll through Colorado I hope there is snow or snowing because we get test drive one finally. Should be exciting either way.
> 
> About the Holders. Yes we plan to turn them every 10 years. When we do have issues I will be back here on plowsite chimming in about them. Obviously only on the specific models we may have issues with.


Colorado is closed.....


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

[email protected] !

My other investment there would say otherwise 

Hopefully there will be a snow storm or 2 we can chase and hit A-basin and Steamboat.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Ice-sage said:


> [email protected] !
> 
> My other investment there would say otherwise
> 
> Hopefully there will be a snow storm or 2 we can chase and hit A-basin and Steamboat.


Both nice areas for skiing. 
If you end up with new snow be sure to check the avalanche reports before ewe head oot.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

UpNorthMowing said:


> How about multihog
> 
> https://www.multihog.com/vehicles/cx-tractor
> View attachment 231459
> ...


I will take the Multihog…


UpNorthMowing said:


> or the Wille
> 
> https://www.willemachines.com/machines/275
> View attachment 231463


@Ajlawn1 would probably take a Willie…


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## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

We run two SSV's and they are hands down the best sidewalk tool we've found. I had the bigger ventrals in the past and they were too large. We also have a Kubota RTV for big walks. But for your average stuff, the SSV replaces a 6 man crew with one guy.

We uplifted two F150's with ramp gates and they each haul an SSV all storm long. The SSV's and the ramps have held up pretty well. I believe they are on their third season.

https://streamable.com/e/jr7mrb


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

abbe said:


> We run two SSV's and they are hands down the best sidewalk tool we've found. I had the bigger ventrals in the past and they were too large. We also have a Kubota RTV for big walks. But for your average stuff, the SSV replaces a 6 man crew with one guy.
> 
> We uplifted two F150's with ramp gates and they each haul an SSV all storm long. The SSV's and the ramps have held up pretty well. I believe they are on their third season.
> 
> https://streamable.com/e/jr7mrb


Nice


----------



## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

abbe said:


> We run two SSV's and they are hands down the best sidewalk tool we've found. I had the bigger ventrals in the past and they were too large. We also have a Kubota RTV for big walks. But for your average stuff, the SSV replaces a 6 man crew with one guy.
> 
> We uplifted two F150's with ramp gates and they each haul an SSV all storm long. The SSV's and the ramps have held up pretty well. I believe they are on their third season.
> 
> https://streamable.com/e/jr7mrb


Cool. Truck guy needs to shave a few lbs off his butt.


----------



## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

m_ice said:


> Nice


My biggest thing was wanting them mobile but not having to have a trailer on the road during a storm.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

There isn't 1 "best" sidewalk machine, just like there isn't one best plow setup. It's all relative. 

Holders or anything like that would be a massive waste of money for all but 1 of my routes. Even then, the money is not there to justify the cost of one when a JD CUT, Ventrac 4500/4520 or something along those lines will work just fine for half the initial price. 

A 3400 would work well on a couple of my routes. Although an SSV would probably be best on 1 of these as well.

For 2 of them for sure, and likely the 3rd, an SSV or SteelGreen/Zplow type machine is the best. Lots of tight areas that even a 3400 or 4500/4520 would be a waste of time and money on.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

abbe said:


> We run two SSV's and they are hands down the best sidewalk tool we've found. I had the bigger ventrals in the past and they were too large. We also have a Kubota RTV for big walks. But for your average stuff, the SSV replaces a 6 man crew with one guy.
> 
> We uplifted two F150's with ramp gates and they each haul an SSV all storm long. The SSV's and the ramps have held up pretty well. I believe they are on their third season.
> 
> https://streamable.com/e/jr7mrb


@abbe

Can I pressume you buy your crew all the needed winter gear/clothing? Looks from the video you do. If you do outfit your crew I applaud you wholeheartedly. No one around here does that but us. A happy and protected crew with everything they need is one of the best investments ever made.


----------



## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

Ice-sage said:


> @abbe
> 
> Can I pressume you buy your crew all the needed winter gear/clothing? Looks from the video you do. If you do outfit your crew I applaud you wholeheartedly. No one around here does that but us. A happy and protected crew with everything they need is one of the best investments ever made.


You are correct. Gotta keep the boys warm. All the semi regular crew gets fully outfitted with insulated/waterproof bibs, jackets hats and gloves. The transient guys who aren't regulars get a safety vest to wear over their own stuff and a set of waterproof gloves. I buy the gloves in bulk from a local retailer. So the cost isn't really an issue. Makes such a difference when your crew is dry and warm.


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## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Almost every company around here has these, I am not sure if they have been posted yet so excuse me if they have.

Kubota f2690 the reason most don't use the larger model is because of emission issues.

We just use the turf tires, don't see much advantage for winter tires.

You can put a blower on the front, a bauman hydraulic drop spreader on the back.

Only thing is that its a Kubota, so they rust quickly, just like their RTV's


----------



## UpNorthMowing (Dec 30, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> There isn't 1 "best" sidewalk machine, just like there isn't one best plow setup. It's all relative.
> 
> Holders or anything like that would be a massive waste of money for all but 1 of my routes. Even then, the money is not there to justify the cost of one when a JD CUT, Ventrac 4500/4520 or something along those lines will work just fine for half the initial price.
> 
> ...


Yep completely agree about the holder comment, we have some sites where they are barely worth it. The main reason we use holder tractors is the salt capacity, being able to hold close to a yard of salt is very valuable especially at one of our sites.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Was at a dealer and low and behold he had a couple Ariens Mammoths on display. I guess they are purchasable now. But...YIKES! They want almost $15,000.00 for just the machine. I don't think Ariens is in the right state of mind about thier product pricing. Ariens is new to the stander game. And they are really late to the winter season. Time will tell.

Still really no true user reviews. And yootoob is a ghost town pretty much on the Mammoths.

And no, we can't get one to demo.

The few newer videos I could find. I hope these machines can live up to their name.
















@jato


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Bigger tires are nice, plow looks to be heavier built, QD attach is a nice feature but think the linear actuator for angling the plow is going to be an issue if/when you hit something and it's slow to cycle.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

BUFF said:


> Bigger tires are nice, plow looks to be heavier built, QD attach is a nice feature but think the linear actuator for angling the plow is going to be an issue if/when you hit something and it's slow to cycle.


They should have just used a miniskid attachment system. 
I'm also wondering about their choice of engines.


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## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

I'm surprised the ACLU hasn't sued manufacturers on behalf of disabled people. Is probably coming.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

EWSplow said:


> They should have just used a miniskid attachment system.
> I'm also wondering about their choice of engines.


Yes...
They must noah guy.....I have a Kawi on my Scag and had no issues in 600hrs<>


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BUFF said:


> Yes...
> They must noah guy.....I have a Kawi on my Scag and had no issues in 600hrs<>


No carb freeze ups?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> No carb freeze ups?


Pretty sure he isn't mowing snow...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Pretty sure he isn't mowing snow...


Scag makes a fert and squirt macheen maybe he was salting... Maybe he was using a Hurricane to blow everything off... Endless possibilities.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Scag makes a fert and squirt macheen maybe he was salting... Maybe he was using a Hurricane to blow everything off... Endless possibilities.


Neither one of those were available when he was working for banana scraps...so no, not really endless.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Neither one of those were available when he was working for banana scraps...so no, not really endless.


In case you haven't been paying attention... He's back in the game!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> In case you haven't been paying attention... He's back in the game!


I don't have enough banana scraps to pay attention.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't have enough banana scraps to pay attention.


Sure Mr MP


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Speed of the Ariens is impressive. Until you hit something and go flying. 
I guess I’d rather have an ATV & plow. 
Really, I’d rather have a snowblower on the front of these things instead of a plow.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Update. The dealer begged us to come back and try it out. They had one prepped and ready outside when we arrived.

NOTICE: LONG READ AND SUMMARY

So first the neat bits.
It has a 10.5 gallon fuel tank. He wasn't sure but it seemed like a 16-20 gallon brine tank. The tanks are built in and around the engine and central frame. Bad thing is you still have to buy the brine sprayer bar setup. We asked if one could just use the brine tank as an extra fuel tank. They didn't know. The blow molded tanks were similar and the brine tank side had all the points top and bottom to probably pretty easily install your own vinton pickups and tubing to make that happen. Each tank also had bottom clean-out plugs.

Great center of balance on this thing. Operator platform is wide enough and deep enough. Good notched footplate for traction and stability. No springs just 2 large rubber isolater rings for suspension. The platform can be locked in an up position so you can theorhetically walk behind it.

The engine is a Kawasaki 28.5HP EFI. Seemed really beastly. The engine hummed along nicely and never grunted pushing 6-8 inch week and a half old snow even when hitting the end of a push pile.

Only the plow is available for it at this moment. Seemed pretty beefy with thick steel and decent welds. Double trip springs and they did work pretty good. The electric over hydro ram on the plow to change angles seemed quite robust as well. The movement up and down and angle side to side was fast enough. No problem angling with a full load of snow on the plow and at speed. Although it seems to be missing a float type of operation. You can apply downforce just like a skidsteer and get this thing on its back two tires if you want. Simple triangle block and it seems the QD attachment point to the tractor will allow for certain aftermarket attachments.

Not sure about the broom and blower yet. It does have a central pto engadged directly from below the engine. Can be splined from there and run to the front implement. Looked pretty stout as a setup.

The wheel hydros. It seems to have a single front and single rear hydro set up. It felt as if the left front and left rear wheels were run by one hydro and the right front and right rear were run by the other. We sat her on a large piece of ice to see what happened. Yup. Left and right sides operated independently of one another. Skidsteer like. But there seems to sort of be like some kind of limited slip. You could get either the front and rear of the same side to do their own searching for traction. It worked pretty well.

This machine is really compact and short. Much shorter than the SSV. Probably 8 inches shorter than the Snowrator. They hydros and steering were actually way better than the SSV or Snowrator we demoed. None of that super glitchy skidsteer madness going on. The Mammoth was worlds better on the bouncing around factor we found on the SSV and Snowrator.

Could not test the led headlights as it was daytime out. I think they will be fairly good though. Has a rear facing led back-up light. Might be issues as it was pointing fairly low towards the ground from about calf height on the operator platform.

I think the machine can be fairly easy to work on considering its compactness.

The bad bits.
Well hmm. Where to start. There were quite a few pin and bolt placement holes that really seemed misalinged. Couldn't really tell if a lot of the hardware was stainless quality steel. A lot of rubber grommets and isolater points seemed chincy. Of course some of the plastics were pretty bad. The hydro cooling fan and fins seemed like crap right off a home desktop cpu fan. All of this I will attribute to Ariens quality controls and bean counters. Not sure how bad the engineering department is.

Notice I have not talked about the operator controls yet? Yeah...good reason. The good thing going for the main lever handles is they are heated. It was 19°F(-7.2C) with sustained 20-25mph winds with gusts to almost 50mph. The heaters worked okay. They do add a bit of bulk to the levers which are already quite short. Sadly the machine drove great but the operator controls are kind of horrendous. The left handle is of the saftey variety where you have to keep it held down even with the right handle. It was totally abysmal trying to run this machine this way. Way to finicky and not perfectly alinged. Really got to your hands and fingers and wrists extremely quickly. It has a speed bar for the front grab bar kind of like the Ferris mowers control setup. Problem is the bar is like 5 times thinner in circumfrence than the main control levers. Feels really weak. And rattled around in the multiple speed notch holes in the bar lever like an earthquake on your fingers. Horrible fit and finnish. The first three notches(slowest to faster) are utterly useless.

Next and the biggest machine flaw of all. The 4 way (t) little tiny joystick sits right in front and below the right hand control lever and front grab/speed bar. Holy good god how and why did they let this thing go into production with a horrific placement of the main attachment controller stick. It is like an inch and a half tall. Is always blocked by the the control bars and lever. Its operation works well enough if you can get your fingers on it. But seems also to be junk made. One more button on the left side same place under and forward of the lever controls. Same-ish issues. The rocker switch is purported to be the way to operate the snow blower chute spout pitch control. Still in a bad spot and the rocker switch seems chincy. Could not test though as there is no snow blower yet.(we were told they will be available in July?? LOL). To end this, the operator control station is quite low and with short and low bars and levers. No bueno for tall folks.(think 6 footish and taller)

Overall I really want to like this beastly little machine. It has a lot going for it. The first and foremost issue, I could *NOT* purchase this machine solely on the FUBAR snafu of the attachment joystick and operator controls. If Ariens can grasp some freaking simple basic quality controls of a few things, change the operator controls entirely, and hope everything else doesn't fall apart, Ariens may have a winner on its hands. Most people know Ariens can make snow blowers that can eat some snow and blow it good. Would really like to see the blower and broom for this Mammoth either way. Can Ariens actually compete with a stand-on winter maintenece commercial machine? Only the future will tell us that.

Good luck to Ariens.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

WIPensFan said:


> I'd rather have a snowblower on the front of these things instead of a plow.


Yes and also a broom. Hopefully Ariens can knock it out of the park with a snow blower and all the pto HP the Mammoth has to spare.


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## Tracesnow (Dec 31, 2016)

We run 5-kubota b2301 with 5’ blades and 2-bx with 5’ blades the problem we have is after city comes and plows walks in on heavy snows we ind up with ice chin is and more snow then these tractors can push. Would a ventrac or kubota rtv with 5 blade push better or what does anyone else use? Really can’t go with a much bigger machine do to size of walks etc. Thanks in advance


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Trackless or Holder sidewalk machines .


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Tracesnow said:


> We run 5-kubota b2301 with 5' blades and 2-bx with 5' blades the problem we have is after city comes and plows walks in on heavy snows we ind up with ice chin is and more snow then these tractors can push. Would a ventrac or kubota rtv with 5 blade push better or what does anyone else use? Really can't go with a much bigger machine do to size of walks etc. Thanks in advance


Can you get a snow blower attachment for these tractors?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Tracesnow said:


> We run 5-kubota b2301 with 5' blades and 2-bx with 5' blades the problem we have is after city comes and plows walks in on heavy snows we ind up with ice chin is and more snow then these tractors can push. Would a ventrac or kubota rtv with 5 blade push better or what does anyone else use? Really can't go with a much bigger machine do to size of walks etc. Thanks in advance


When push comes to shove, the ole Ditch Witch 800 with bucket has not been stopped yet for us cleaning up muni spillage...

But this is last resort due to the slow speed...


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## Tracesnow (Dec 31, 2016)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Can you get a snow blower attachment for these tractors?


I have seen them and was concerned with size they seem long but will look into it more.


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## Tracesnow (Dec 31, 2016)

Tracesnow said:


> I have seen them and was concerned with size they seem long but will look into it more.


Sorry that was about the trackless or holders amd yes I can get blowers for them they are around 25hp was concerned if the blower would throw they heavy snow with ice chunks


Ajlawn1 said:


> When push comes to shove, the ole Ditch Witch 800 with bucket has not been stopped yet for us cleaning up muni spillage...
> 
> But this is last resort due to the slow speed...


we rented a simulator bobcat skid loader the last two big storms after storm to clean them up. 
what bothers me about that is my guys already had been working 20-24 hrs to keep up with walks then city comes thru and we're screwed when customers open we're not done as at rental yard getting machine. If that is the best answer I will buy one so we ha e it ready to go. Just trying to find a machine that will push heavy stuff or blow it that we can still use efficiently on the 2" normal snows.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Tracesnow said:


> Sorry that was about the trackless or holders amd yes I can get blowers for them they are around 25hp was concerned if the blower would throw they heavy snow with ice chunks
> 
> we rented a simulator bobcat skid loader the last two big storms after storm to clean them up.
> what bothers me about that is my guys already had been working 20-24 hrs to keep up with walks then city comes thru and we're screwed when customers open we're not done as at rental yard getting machine. If that is the best answer I will buy one so we ha e it ready to go. Just trying to find a machine that will push heavy stuff or blow it that we can still use efficiently on the 2" normal snows.


Would your dealer allow you to demo a blower on the tractor? For what it's worth, during the aftermath of an ice storm up here I was breaking up ice chunks and feeding them into a toro two stage snowblower without any issue


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## SeaDragon26 (11 mo ago)

This is what we run for side walks, steiner utilamax and a stiner s18 repower with a 26hp. Other truck has a zplow and a steiner 420. Works well for the tight walks we have to do. Barely have to shovel anything.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Those that are running electric drop spreaders, what speed are you running at when spreading? Say for a scrape and salt event with temps in the low 20s on a cloudy day.
Looking at a bauman for the quad for next season, or a boss, or apparently ventract makes an electric drop too.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Does the speed on that stop at 10 or does it go all the way up to 11?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Depends...


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Hydromaster said:


> Does the speed on that stop at 10 or does it go all the way up to 11?


On the quad, not sure what it's top speed is, I've only gotten up to 40, in low gear I think you're supposed to only go 10 or 11 mph though.
It goes about 0 right now though lacking an engine and all.


Mark Oomkes said:


> Depends...


Just as I suspected, how about a range of speed instead.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Still depends


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Is it worth upgrading or do you think should I stay with the buyers drop? 
they’re doing about 6000 linear ft of walks with it.
They use the yellow Lesco spreader in some wide open areas, but prefer the drop.
We’d still use the drop on tighter areas.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Depends


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

I know, I’m just throwing so many factors in, but really the ultimate decision is on me.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Depends


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Tracesnow said:


> We run 5-kubota b2301 with 5' blades and 2-bx with 5' blades the problem we have is after city comes and plows walks in on heavy snows we ind up with ice chin is and more snow then these tractors can push. Would a ventrac or kubota rtv with 5 blade push better or what does anyone else use? Really can't go with a much bigger machine do to size of walks etc. Thanks in advance


@Tracesnow

It really does depend on how wide your walks are. You are talking municiple city sidewalks? Are these sidewalks 48 inches wide and wider?

Our cities medical establishment has an entire fleet of Ventracs. Some 3000 series and a lot of 4500 series Ventrac tractors. The med establishment literally owns 75% of downtown. There is probably roughly 15 miles of sidewalks 48 inch, 6 foot, 12 foot and 14 foot wide walks scattered all around the city center. There are also tons of obstacles on them and many more and hazards on the wider walkways. The Ventracs work very well for them. Generally we see brooms and plows on them. The higher snowfalls the snow blower attachments come out.

When we demoed the Ventracs with a snowblower and the power broom, only the broom was particularily safe on 48"inch wide walks as it can be angled and worked great. The snow blower is wider than 48 inches. Too sketchy to try on 48" inch walks. We didn't use the plow but there is a model or 2 I think can do 48" inch or maybe narrower walks? Someone correct me if I am wrong though.

I would think the new Ventrac 4520z in the Kubota 32hp gas model will work very well for a lot of companies that do city walks generally 48" inches and bigger.

I Posted some yootoob videos in this thread of a company putting the new Ventrac 4520's through its paces. Pretty cool.

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/ventrac-4520z-working.182599/
The guys yootoob channel is Stealth Mowed.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

@Tracesnow

Or you could go all out and hit the big leagues with something like a Holder or Trackless tractors. Our city/municipality uses the Trackless to do city walks and miscellaneous paths and entrances, walkways, crosswalks, bridge walks, school walks, citywide pedestrian walking trails and paths, park walks and paths. Even do the city outdoor ice rinks with them. Pretty neat machines as well.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Ice-sage said:


> @Tracesnow
> 
> Or you could go all out and hit the big leagues with something like a Holder or Trackless tractors. Our city/municipality uses the Trackless to do city walks and miscellaneous paths and entrances, walkways, crosswalks, bridge walks, school walks, citywide pedestrian walking trails and paths, park walks and paths. Even do the city outdoor ice rinks with them. Pretty neat machines as well.


you said that they use machines made by Prinoth.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

The city adjacent to fantasy island had a trackless M7? They got it around 2013-14 and got rid of it soon after that, 
They run a Deere 1 or 2 series now.

since the atv has been down, I've gotten a little wiser and just put my truck on the wider sidewalks to clear them.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I've gotten a little wiser and just put my truck on the wider sidewalks to clear them.


And this just started happening recently... Oh boy...


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## BillyMetzler (11 mo ago)

BossPlow2010 said:


> The city adjacent to fantasy island had a trackless M7? They got it around 2013-14 and got rid of it soon after that,
> They run a Deere 1 or 2 series now.
> 
> since the atv has been down, I've gotten a little wiser and just put my truck on the wider sidewalks to clear them.
> View attachment 236282


You might want to rethink that plan of action.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

BillyMetzler said:


> You might want to rethink that plan of action.


How come? The machine is a primary resource for us and at this point, our backup in three snowblowers, that sidewalk is capable of carrying the weight of that truck, and it's wide enough too.


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## BillyMetzler (11 mo ago)

BossPlow2010 said:


> How come? The machine is a primary resource for us and at this point, our backup in three snowblowers, that sidewalk is capable of carrying the weight of that truck, and it's wide enough too.


I wouldn't want to slide into the building with my vehicle if the side walk is extremely icy. You might do more damage to the building and truck than you want to deal with.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

I wouldn’t want to either, but we need to clear the property of snow, and we service other properties where the parking lot abuts the building, I think we can be vigilant enough.


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## BillyMetzler (11 mo ago)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I wouldn't want to either, but we need to clear the property of snow, and we service other properties where the parking lot abuts the building, I think we can be vigilant enough.


Well, I hope it works out for you.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

BillyMetzler said:


> I wouldn't want to slide into the building with my vehicle if the side walk is extremely icy. You might do more damage to the building and truck than you want to deal with.


What vehicle would that be?
Do you have any experience or is this just theoretical?

more damage? You assume he has already
done damage.
What damage are you talking about?


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## Mountain Bob (Nov 12, 2017)

Hydromaster said:


> What vehicle would that be?
> Do you have any experience or is this just theoretical?
> 
> more damage? You assume he has already
> ...


He slid out on the ice,once. On his Big Wheel.


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## BillyMetzler (11 mo ago)

Hydromaster said:


> What vehicle would that be?
> Do you have any experience or is this just theoretical?
> 
> more damage? You assume he has already
> ...


A full sized pickup. As pictured.

More damage than an ATV if it hypothetically hits the building.

The potential damage that could occur.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

BillyMetzler said:


> A full sized pickup. As pictured.
> 
> More damage than an ATV if it hypothetically hits the building.
> 
> The potential damage that could occur.


Like the hypothetical potential damage you are planning to inflict on the Russian forces?


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

BillyMetzler said:


> A full sized pickup. As pictured.
> 
> More damage than an ATV if it hypothetically hits the building.
> 
> The potential damage that could occur.


That's his truck you said "with my vehicle"
What vehicle would that be, theoretically.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here but I'm gonna think that he didn't hop the curb and zip by the front door doing 40 miles an hour.

he's a professional,(Theoretically)
he'll use the correct amount of care for the situation.


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## BillyMetzler (11 mo ago)

Hydromaster said:


> That's his truck you said "with my vehicle"
> What vehicle would that be, theoretically.
> 
> I'm gonna go out on a limb here but I'm gonna think that he didn't hop the curb and zip by the front door doing 40 miles an hour.
> ...


Photographic evidence would deny one of those claims you just made.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

what claim?
( whatever it is you’re talking about)


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> And this just started happening recently... Oh boy...


He's been bizzie super moderating.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

BillyMetzler said:


> V is the velocity in this case that just means the scalar unit so instead of just 5mph it's 5 mph plus some compass heading.


My real world experience is, tell s ne 5mph is too fast when doing detail work around buildings, etc.....


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## BillyMetzler (11 mo ago)

BUFF said:


> My real world experience is, tell s ne 5mph is too fast when doing detail work around buildings, etc.....


It was just used for calculations.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

BillyMetzler said:


> It was just used for calculations.


So... a theory..... Gotcha.


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## BillyMetzler (11 mo ago)

BUFF said:


> So... a theory..... Gotcha.


Not a theory. It is a simple mechanics.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

BillyMetzler said:


> Not a theory. It is a simple mechanics.


That's nice, now that we've settled this, could you please stick to the off topic forum or even the business forum, since so far we've let you stay, and *You don't currently provide commercial snow and ice services!!!*


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

BossPlow2010 said:


> could you please stick to the off topic forum


Could you be a little more specific...


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## Landgreen (Sep 8, 2007)

BossPlow2010 said:


> That's nice, now that we've settled this, could you please stick to the off topic forum or even the business forum, since so far we've let you stay, and *You don't currently provide commercial snow and ice services!!!*


We've let him stay? I believe it is only two people that are allowing a previously banned member (multiple bans) to stir this site up once again...


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> That's nice, now that we've settled this, could you please stick to the off topic forum or even the business forum, since so far we've let you stay, and *You don't currently provide commercial snow and ice services!!!*


When did that vote happen and was there ballot harvesting involved cause I do have some dead relatives that could help in voting NO to prop 1A=2many?!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Saw one of these in person yesterday.

Even had the satellite GPS HiDef backup cameras with Dolby Surround Sound...


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Saw one of these in person yesterday.
> 
> Even had the satellite GPS HiDef backup cameras with Dolby Surround Sound...
> 
> ...


You gotta work on your photag game…
What is it??


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Saw one of these in person yesterday.
> 
> Even had the satellite GPS HiDef backup cameras with Dolby Surround Sound...
> 
> ...


And den....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WIPensFan said:


> You gotta work on your photag game…
> What is it??


It's a sidewalk machine.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

WIPensFan said:


> What is it??


One of these... duh...


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> It's a sidewalk machine.


Cool! Who makes it? HP? Cost?
You gotta go to these trade shows thinking, now what would WIPensFan wanna see?? And just start clicking like you're paparazzi stalking Alec Baldwin.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

A company

A lot

Even more than a lot

I specifically had @Ice-sage in mind.

But there were a handful of battery mowers there. One was kinda cool, it had 4 battery cells that they said weighed aboot 50#. I think it was less. Anyway, they slid in and oot just like a power tool so theoretically you could carry spares when the first set went dead.

Makes more sense than the one I demoed that needed a small Liebherr crane to pick up.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> A company
> 
> A lot
> 
> ...


You gonna try one out for the season? Are the costs in line with conventional mowers?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WIPensFan said:


> You gonna try one out for the season? Are the costs in line with conventional mowers?


If only it had vanity toe mirrors on the snowblower.


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