# Changes in Half Ton Trucks



## roellk (Jun 2, 2014)

Why did earlier half ton trucks allow snow plow mounting but newer half ton trucks do not?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Lighter frames, electronic power steering, engines.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

FVMSSA, CARB, EPA, CCSB, GVWR, FAWR, just to list a few acronyms that apply.

Widen your search area, add the following terms to your search parameters, 26 series, Sport duty, Mid weight, Drive pro, st90


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

dieselss;1814929 said:


> Lighter frames, electronic power steering, engines.


Pretty much this. Or no solid frame past the front axle. People demand lighter trucks with better fuel economy. Well this is what we get.

Nobody makes a beefy half ton anymore. You'll have to buy a 3/4. Hell even the 3/4 arent as tough as they once were. The new 3/4 are like the old 1/2.


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## PRE_SNI (Jul 1, 2014)

Ford is coming out with snow plow prep on the 2015 model F150


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

Because the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket and they just don't make 'em like they used to.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

I don't understand how they don't "make them like they used to" but they can tow what 3x what they could in the 90s? You can tow over 10k with a half ton now..


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## 2006Sierra1500 (Dec 28, 2011)

More power...different gearing. Older trucks were built to a much higher quality than today's rigs. Older trucks will last forever if you take care of them, and the new ones have so many electronic gizmos that eventually replacing those will be worth more than the truck.


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## TMLGC (Sep 22, 2013)

Not to mention the increased complexity to work and fix them as well more expensive parts.

I'm at the cross roads to fix my 2000 Chevy 2500 or replace,,,I'm probably going to spend a couple thousand to get it back %100. Only 134k on it. 

The new 1500s do look much more stout though than ones from the past.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Increased complexity? How?

All it generally takes is a scanner. You couldn't give me an "old half ton" for free. Y'all are scared of new technology for no reason. Everything is just a reliable if not more reliable. Plus the comfort of a newer truck? It's a no brainer. They are build 10x better than they used to be 

Just wait till everyone's riding around on a hovercraft. Lol


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Just because they say it'll tow 10,000 pounds doesn't mean it should. Have fun trying to control that weight with a half ton pickup with the cheap azz breaks the put on nowadays


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

And the old half tons would have no issue with it?

A properly setup half ton towing isn't a big deal. The brakes are not small lol


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

roellk;1814927 said:


> Why did earlier half ton trucks allow snow plow mounting but newer half ton trucks do not?


Many do, Chevy has always offered a snowplow prep on the half ton and most the plow manufacturers offer a line developed specifically for the 1/2 ton pickups and SUVs. 
Example Snoway' 26 series, Boss' sport duty, and the DD multi line offering HTS. However the Federal government though the FVMSSA (federal vehicle manufacturers safety standards act) puts restrictions on what plow manufacturers can list as fitting or even provide information on fitting non compliant vehicles. 
For example if Boss where to offer the information that you could psychically bolt their 2010 F150 mount on the 2012 F150 even though they do not list it as a approved fit and someone had a steering issue due to sacrificial loads required by the Boss wiring components Boss could have a potential liability, tis a litigious society 



OldSchoolPSD;1815088 said:


> Because the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket and they just don't make 'em like they used to.


I know what you mean, I sure miss waiting for the sucker to warm up so the carburation works right, and the security factor provided by requiring a knowledge of just how this particular vehicle liked you to approach cold starts. 
Pumping the brake pedal trying to get the sucker stopped without spinning it when from rear brakes lock up (particularly in the rain) is a lost art as is feathering the throttle during during cornering. 
Boy howdy I sure miss the over steer, harsh ride, inadequate lighting, poor stereo and sliding around on the buckboard seat. The abundance of vehicle information systems in today's trucks take all the skill out of knowing trans and oil temps, tire pressures and the dam heated power mirrors and windows limit today's generation for ever developing the psychic powers required for blind backing.
The truck doesn't double for a mosquito fogger after an oil change because they have those fancy channels to channel oil when you change filters. Speaking of oil filters whose smart idea was it to make them so easy to change? And spark plugs? 80K?? come on what happened to the annual jacking the motor up and removing a motor mount to lower the block for access to the rear PS plugs on my 74 suburban? And stone carb filter, I sure miss them. 



2006Sierra1500;1815098 said:


> More power...different gearing. Older trucks were built to a much higher quality than today's rigs.
> 
> 40+ years of truck driving experience disagree with you
> 
> Older trucks will last forever if you take care of them, and the new ones have so many electronic gizmos that eventually replacing those will be worth more than the truck.


I loved my 1976 Dodge snofighter full time four wheel drive shortbed with a built 360 but by 88 when the cost of replacing the front knuckles exceed the value of the truck it went down the road. 120K on it and I spent a SPL of $ getting the 400+ hp and foot pound of torque out of it that is standard in todays V8.



TMLGC;1815121 said:


> Not to mention the increased complexity to work and fix them as well more expensive parts.
> 
> Maintains cost and downtime have decreased incredibly, huge advancements in materials and manufacture ring mean better longevity and performance and diagnostic are much simpler.
> 
> I'm at the cross roads to fix my 2000 Chevy 2500 or replace,,,I'm probably going to spend a couple thousand to get it back %100. Only 134k on it.


IMO if it's a plow truck its a waste of money unless that includes a trans rebuild


Whiffyspark;1815137 said:


> Increased complexity? How?


Come on, they are more complex, but dollar for dollar you get SOOOO much more. Just the radio controls are more complex than they were, you have to figure out if you're in CD, AUX, Satellite, FM or AM, good old trucks had a volume and a tuning knob you could work with gloves on (heater in those days sucked.) You have EQ and fade control, 12 speakers to worry about instead of just the one in the dash and the dam phone is built in there also. Do you want to have to turn your light on or do you want it automatic? So many decisions and you need more than a hammer, pliers and a screwdriver to work on them. They will lie to you, truck's turn signal works but trailers doesn't there's still a blown fuse because they gave the trailer it's own circuit. How are you suppose to know when the trailer lights aren't working when the truck still works fine



peteo1;1815144 said:


> Just because they say it'll tow 10,000 pounds doesn't mean it should. Have fun trying to control that weight with a half ton pickup with the cheap azz breaks the put on nowadays


The Dodge Mega 1500 weighs more than the 2500 regular cab and with any vintage 1/2 ton you're foolish to tow 10K without a weight distributing hitch and good trailer brakes.


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

It's pretty easy to tell who spent all their pennies on a half ton truck in this thread, lol.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

OldSchoolPSD;1815357 said:


> It's pretty easy to tell who spent all their pennies on a half ton truck in this thread, lol.


I have a 3/4 ton. Lol

Still have a half ton for running around


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

OldSchoolPSD;1815357 said:


> It's pretty easy to tell who spent all their pennies on a half ton truck in this thread, lol.


Yep I agree! I own a 3/4 too and I think my next one might be a one ton. I don't see a need for a half ton any time soon


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

basher;1815273 said:


> Many do, Chevy has always offered a snowplow prep on the half ton and most the plow manufacturers offer a line developed specifically for the 1/2 ton pickups and SUVs.
> Example Snoway' 26 series, Boss' sport duty, and the DD multi line offering HTS. However the Federal government though the FVMSSA (federal vehicle manufacturers safety standards act) puts restrictions on what plow manufacturers can list as fitting or even provide information on fitting non compliant vehicles.
> For example if Boss where to offer the information that you could psychically bolt their 2010 F150 mount on the 2012 F150 even though they do not list it as a approved fit and someone had a steering issue due to sacrificial loads required by the Boss wiring components Boss could have a potential liability, tis a litigious society
> 
> ...


I like the blue...….


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

1olddogtwo;1815378 said:


> I like the blue...….


Looks more purple to me.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

dieselss;1815379 said:


> Looks more purple to me.


Now that u said that, it does.

Since I drive a one ton, I guess I can run a 15 ft since its twice the truck....add diesel.....


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

OldSchoolPSD;1815357 said:


> It's pretty easy to tell who spent all their pennies on a half ton truck in this thread, lol.


If you're referring to me, Na I never run anything less then a 3/4 but that doesn't mean you can't run a half ton nor does it negate their usefulness.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

1olddogtwo;1815390 said:


> Now that u said that, it does.
> 
> Since I drive a one ton, I guess I can run a 15 ft since its twice the truck....add diesel.....


Crew Cab one ton diesel???? FVMSSA probably limits you to the same size plow (7.5') as the half tons.


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## shotgunwillie (Nov 4, 2012)

PRE_SNI;1815077 said:


> Ford is coming out with snow plow prep on the 2015 model F150


Yeah, it's a button you push that shuts off all non-essential electrical draws so your plow does not brown-out your EPAS. The biggest plow allowed is a Boss Sport-Duty 7.5. You have to use a Ford approved brand and model or warranty is void.


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## jmac5058 (Sep 28, 2009)

shotgunwillie;1816593 said:


> Yeah, it's a button you push that shuts off all non-essential electrical draws so your plow does not brown-out your EPAS. The biggest plow allowed is a Boss Sport-Duty 7.5. You have to use a Ford approved brand and model or warranty is void.


They dont void your warrenty , they might not cover a claim of worn ball joints if you have a Wideout on your F 150 . I doubt you could ever find someone with a voided warrenty on a truck that has not been declaired totaled by an insurance co.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

basher;1815401 said:


> Crew Cab one ton diesel???? FVMSSA probably limits you to the same size plow (7.5') as the half tons.


Haha.....its probably a good thing cause my plates are only good to 8K.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

aluminum frames?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Broncslefty7;1816626 said:


> aluminum frames?


Well Ford owned jaguar and they (Jag) are doing some incredible things with aluminum and glue in frame and body construction.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

So.... What Plow can I put on this thing????......:waving:


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

what did you do, start a business specializing in towing smart cars???


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Broncslefty7;1816626 said:


> aluminum frames?


you haven't seen this yet, have you

http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/2015/

can't wait to see the 2016 SD's


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

Peterbilt tried that in the 70's. Aluminum is too soft, it doesn't hold up.


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

OldSchoolPSD;1816747 said:


> Peterbilt tried that in the 70's. Aluminum is too soft, it doesn't hold up.


There a big difference between an f150 and a Peterbilt though and I'm sure metallurgy has come a long way in the last 30+ years. I'd be interested to see what Ford comes up with but I tend to agree that it wouldn't hold up for any sort of commercial use.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Research Ford's work in aluminum. They have been building aluminum vehicles for a long time. Their AIV Sables showed excellent durability, the Jaguar XJ has been aluminum for almost a decade. There are as many different aluminum alloys as there are steel from butter soft to structural grade. I think their aluminum BODIES will last far longer than the steel counterparts.


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## PRE_SNI (Jul 1, 2014)

basher;1816771 said:


> Research Ford's work in aluminum. They have been building aluminum vehicles for a long time. Their AIV Sables showed excellent durability, the Jaguar XJ has been aluminum for almost a decade. There are as many different aluminum alloys as there are steel from butter soft to structural grade. I think their aluminum BODIES will last far longer than the steel counterparts.


Only time will tell. In my experience salt and aluminum doesn't mix very well.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Agreed^^ salt and aluminum is bad news unless u wax ur undercarriage. dont trust ford, dont trust the eco boost, 3400 bucks for another 1mpg.... is a little pointless. and they consider it a luxury.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

I guess aluminum wheels and dump bodies should get back to steel than?


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

heres the thing with aluminum. sure it doesnt rust as fast as steel off the bat, but once it starts rusting its game over, theres no stopping it. at least with steel it takes year and years and years to rust away.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

I'm pretty sure ford is using a coating that will protect the aluminum. I don't ever remember seeing an issue on jaguars. 

He'll almost all the subframe on gm cars are aluminum. They have aluminum driveshafts in trucks. Never seen either one rust before


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

i bought a 2014 f350 pick up last year that i can see a little bit of orange tint to on the front of the frame. we sand blasted it off. there is a guy in new hampshire that takes this special kind of wax and coats everything on the undercarriage to prevent rust, its good for like 5 years. costs $1,500.00, i think its worth it to have it done expecially after last season when my 2000 f250's frame cracked through in the front.


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

Aluminum doesn't rust, it oxidizes. It's a non-ferrous metal, it doesn't have any iron in it so it can't rust.

They coat it with a process called anodizing. Anodizing bonds with the substrate, it's more akin to galvanizing than it is to paint.

Anodized aluminum will hold up against corrosion for a lifetime, but corrosion isn't the issue. The issue is that aluminum is too soft of a metal. Processes that harden aluminum make it more brittle and prone to cracking. It is not well suited for truck frames.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

I've seen a few dc drivers split aluminum wheels In half on potholes.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Broncslefty7;1816793 said:


> heres the thing with aluminum. sure it doesnt rust as fast as steel off the bat, but once it starts rusting its game over, theres no stopping it. at least with steel it takes year and years and years to rust away.


Its all in how you take care of things....

The only draw back I can see in building the Truck body out of Aluminum is cost of repairing said vehicle and the lack of Qualified Body Shop techs with the experience to fix said aluminum......Those two things will correct themselves over time......Just my opinion


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

I've been following aluminum automobiles for quite a while and suggest you do a little reading, so you are talking fact not opinion.

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...th-aluminum-bodied-vehicles-goes-back-decades

http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/14000/14900/14962/DE2002797926.pdf

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...press-alcoa-to-share-aluminum-bonding-process

If you don't read anything else this one will give you an idea of how many aluminum bodied vehicles are and have been on the road.

http://www.innovaltec.com/ficarp/lmss_jun05/02_scamans.pdf


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Defcon 5;1816854 said:


> The only draw back I can see in building the Truck body out of Aluminum is cost of repairing said vehicle and the lack of Qualified Body Shop techs with the experience to fix said aluminum......Those two things will correct themselves over time......Just my opinion


They have many repair centers that repair not only aluminum bodies but chassis as well. You're right about cost though new bonding and riveting technics are making it much cheaper.

http://www.fenderbender.com/FenderBender/January-2013/Reserved-for-Aluminum/


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

basher;1816862 said:


> They have many repair centers that repair not only aluminum bodies but chassis as well. You're right about cost though new bonding and riveting technics are making it much cheaper.
> 
> http://www.fenderbender.com/FenderBender/January-2013/Reserved-for-Aluminum/


I know there are many out there.......But out of the gate there are gonna many F150s on the road and that equals many dented fenders.....I have no doubt this is the wave of the future in truck body construction...Im just hoping Ford Dealers and the million of auto repair shops are ready for the future.......:salute:


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

OldSchoolPSD;1816747 said:


> Peterbilt tried that in the 70's. Aluminum is too soft, it doesn't hold up.


I guess aluminum a-arms on Chevy's trucks should be recalled to.









Time will tell.


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

There's a big difference between cast aluminum (your Chevy a arms) and the forged aluminum that is used for truck frames. 

If you were to cast a truck frame it would be Inflexable and crack.

Do a little reading on it if you want to learn more. Look up "annealing" and you can get a basic understanding of the processes that make aluminum malleable and why it is much softer than other metals.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

we/i use Anodized aluminum carabiners/ belay devices etc etc for rock climbing I have a few that are well over 10years old.
but the non-anodized ones show no sign on oxidation.(nether do my non coated ones lol)
but then again they have never seen any salt or the like.

are they strong most of them are rated at 3000kg
(3000 Kilograms = 6613.86787 pounds)Pounds or more. I've pulled trucks out of the ditch using one
(it's retired) and they have saved many lives over and over,
Do they flex, yes, that is why the gates have a notch so they don't straiten out under a load


like some others I'm apprehensive.
how about going to plastic body panels like on the ole' Pontiac Fiero


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

basher, how does that new ram hold a plow? any more pics? thinking of picking up 2 3500 pickups.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

let's try to keep the thread/discussion on topic or you can start a separate thread if you want 

thanks


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

alright, my bad.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

no problem, just a heads up :waving:


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

OldSchoolPSD;1816963 said:


> There's a big difference between cast aluminum (your Chevy a arms) and the forged aluminum that is used for truck frames.
> 
> If you were to cast a truck frame it would be Inflexable and crack.
> 
> Do a little reading on it if you want to learn more. Look up "annealing" and you can get a basic understanding of the processes that make aluminum malleable and why it is much softer than other metals.


Not all aluminum is annealed. Annealing is simply heating an alloy to around 600 degrees so in can be formed without cracking. The common term for annealed aluminum is "dead soft"

You can re harden the material though a specific possess involving heating and aging (either naturally or though a heat possess.) Many aluminum parts are hardened after they are formed. Though carefull heat and aging they can achive the exact hardness they want for a particular part or panel.

You really can't talk about aluminum properties without designating an alloy for example 6061-T6 is a common structural aluminum, a non annealed material. there are at least a dozen suffixes like -T6 (solution heat treated and artificially aged) all telling the special specific properties of that alloy.

Auto body panels are 6111, 2008, frames 5182 or 5754 aluminum formed sheets, 6061 or 6063 extrusions. It's important to know what alloy you are dealing with before welding so you can chose the proper alloy filler rod, for example 4043 is a common choice for welding 6061 but it is critical you use a alloy selection chart particularly if you are welding dissimilar alloys.

Here's a little chart we refer to for material selection that might clear this up for you. Aluminum alloys


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Broncslefty7;1816974 said:


> basher, how does that new ram hold a plow? any more pics? thinking of picking up 2 3500 pickups.


Shot me an email, addy's in my sig:waving:


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Michael J. Donovan;1816976 said:


> let's try to keep the thread/discussion on topic or you can start a separate thread if you want
> 
> thanks


Wow that was quick....thanks MJD.

I won't pretend to know everything about aluminum, but if the plane doesn't crash and my beer doesn't leak out, I'm happy.

I'm sure when the fuel injection came, everyone said it sucked or it won't last. I know I didn't care for it.

Same for smart phones and the internet. What tech gaint said the web was a waste and said it wouldn't last?

Or when they put the diesel back in production after Chevy messed up the 1st time around with the 5.7......

Point is the big 3 or 29 have to improve their MPG and weight it one of them. I'm sure we'll embraced them, hate them, love them.

By the way, never thought repairing them would be such a big deal.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/gm-ma...-truck-sooner-with-a-small-1612713651/+travis


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