# Snow tires for daily driver?



## samger2

I have a 1997 TJ Sport lifted 4 inches with 33x12.50x15 BFGoodrich Mud Terrains.

This is the first year my TJ will be my daily driver and I'm a bit concerned about the mud tires in daily driving snow conditions.

I'm considering downsizing just for the winter to 31x10.50x15 or 265/75R15 and using a dedicated snow and ice tire.

The best price I've found thus far is $90 per tire for a Wintercat Radial SST...blem tires meaning they'll require extra weight to balance out.

I've also priced some yokohama's and some Dunlops as well.

1) Who has experience driving mud terrain tires as a daily driver in the snow...will I need dedicated snow tires?

2) What snow tires would you recommend that won't break the bank

3) I don't want to do an A/T tire...if I do this it will be specifically for the snowy season and I will want dedicated snow and ice tires.

Thanks in advance,

Sam


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## '76cj5

In Ohio? Well I drive all year with 33's X12.5 on my CJ and work OK for plowing but my other jeeps all have or are getting Blizzacs winter tires. Even my new JK.is getting a set. 

I don't think you have much trouble with what you have on right now it they are not worn down.


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## samger2

They are not worn down at all. My biggest concern is that there is absolutely NO siping in a mud tire...it's just big lugs that's it.

And for the record, I'm not using this as a plow truck, it's a daily driver, so I'm not so much concerned with getting or pushing through large amounts of snow as much as I'm concerned with driving in traffic on snow covered streets and highways. How will mud terrains do in normal snowy conditions?


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## 18lmslcsr

Try a looksee at the Firestone WinterForce tire....I dont own it so i have'nt an practical hands on, but 4 the price it is real reasonable.

C.


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## 18lmslcsr

Oh and it's a winter tire!

C.


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## samger2

The Winterforce was actually one of my first choices to research, however they don't seem to make it in either size I'm interested in...the largest tire I can find a Bridgestone or Firestone winter tire is a 225/75R15.


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## MikeRi24

1) Mud terrain tires in the snow arent going to get you anywhere, especially if you're plowing.

2) I hear good things about the Blizzaks, Hankook makes a good one as well. I have a set of Mastercraft Glacier Gripps on mine, and no complaints thus far

3) The BFG All-Terrains are outstanding in the snow, they have a snow-rating on them and they will last hell of a lot longer than regular snow tires. If i didn't get such a good deal on my snow tires I was going to get the BFGs. They are quite a bit more expensive, but they will last A LOT longer


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## samger2

redtjx;649773 said:


> 1) Mud terrain tires in the snow arent going to get you anywhere, especially if you're plowing.
> 
> 2) I hear good things about the Blizzaks, Hankook makes a good one as well. I have a set of Mastercraft Glacier Gripps on mine, and no complaints thus far
> 
> 3) The BFG All-Terrains are outstanding in the snow, they have a snow-rating on them and they will last hell of a lot longer than regular snow tires. If i didn't get such a good deal on my snow tires I was going to get the BFGs. They are quite a bit more expensive, but they will last A LOT longer


What size Glacier Gripps do you have?


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## JeepTJ

samger2;649770 said:


> The Winterforce was actually one of my first choices to research, however they don't seem to make it in either size I'm interested in...the largest tire I can find a Bridgestone or Firestone winter tire is a 225/75R15.


I just came back from my local tire dealer, getting 4 new studded Wintercat SSTs installed. They had 2 different versions of the Firestone Winterforce tires on display. One was studless and the other was studable. I think the studable type can be found in a slightly larger size (235/75/15). The tread pattern looked much more aggressive on the studable tire than the studless one. If I were in the market for a real decent, low-priced winter only tire, I would get the studable Winterforce tires without studs installed. The 235/75/15s may look wimpy with your 4 inch lift though.

Because I use my XJ for snowplowing, I opted for the Wintercat SSTs with studs. The tread pattern is very similar to the Cooper Discoverer M+S. (Dean Wintercats are made by Cooper). Since it snow today, I gave them a good workout...excellent traction!!!!. BTW, my 225/75/16 non-blem Wintercats were $90. Out the door with studs installed, spin-balanced, remounted, old tire fee and taxed they were $510 for the four tires.

Fran


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## samger2

I just got a smokin' deal on the 265/75R15 Wintercats...they were blems, however, never installed.

The seller dropped the price to $360 with free shipping, then I got 25% off that price by using msn live within ebay...so that'll bring the total price down to $270 for four brand new (blem) tires. I couldn't pass it up.


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## theplowmeister

JeepTJ;649948 said:


> I just came back from my local tire dealer, getting 4 new studded Wintercat SSTs installed. They had 2 different versions of the Firestone Winterforce tires on display. One was studless and the other was studable. I think the studable type can be found in a slightly larger size (235/75/15). The tread pattern looked much more aggressive on the studable tire than the studless one. If I were in the market for a real decent, low-priced winter only tire, I would get the studable Winterforce tires without studs installed. The 235/75/15s may look wimpy with your 4 inch lift though.
> 
> Because I use my XJ for snowplowing, I opted for the Wintercat SSTs with studs. The tread pattern is very similar to the Cooper Discoverer M+S. (Dean Wintercats are made by Cooper). Since it snow today, I gave them a good workout...excellent traction!!!!. BTW, my 225/75/16 non-blem Wintercats were $90. Out the door with studs installed, spin-balanced, remounted, old tire fee and taxed they were $510 for the four tires.
> 
> Fran


If you plowed my driveway with studed tires I'd be all over your A** for marking up me driveway.


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## festerw

I've been running the Mastercraft Courser MSR's and they do great, I believe they are also available in 31's.


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## JeepTJ

theplowmeister;650458 said:


> If you plowed my driveway with studed tires I'd be all over your A** for marking up me driveway.


I only plow 3 driveways. Two are gravel and the studs won't hurt them . The other driveway is mine, which is paved. The driveway is 350 feet long and 12 feet wide. There are only 2 push-off points along the length (mid-way and bottom). Between the mid-way point and bottom, it has a 19% grade along with a 30 foot radius turn . Ohh yah, did I say it is shaded all day in this area. We often get rain/sleet/snow events here. If it wasn't for the studded tires I wouldn't be able to clear the driveway. I would have to use large amounts of sand and/or salt to keep it clean. As it is, I probably use a ton of sand/salt mix from the town's free supply to keep up with it. I don't mind a few scratches on the pavement in lieu of keeping my wife happy so she can get up & down the driveway!!! If the wife ain't happy I ain't happy!! 

Fran


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## RichG53

Who is running studded tires I thought they were outlawed.....


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## BOMBER

redtjx;649773 said:


> 1)
> 
> Mud terrain tires in the snow arent going to get you anywhere, especially if you're plowing.


oops!

:waving:


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## MikeRi24

samger2;649783 said:


> What size Glacier Gripps do you have?


235/75/15 I have a 2" lift also


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## tjthorson

redtjx;649773 said:


> 1) Mud terrain tires in the snow arent going to get you anywhere, especially if you're plowing.


I disagree. Those Kumho KL71s i had on my old jeep worked pretty darn good. As a matter of fact, because i had to do a lot of "turnarounds" out on the street, I would plow in 2wd, with no ballast and only have to hit the 4wd when piling snow. The new jeep has BFG ATKOs on it - so I will see if I notice a big difference....


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## samger2

I ended up getting a great deal on a set of 265/75R15 Wintercat Radial SST tires. I've had them in some light snow thus far and they do great.


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## cocco78

Well I've always run mud tires on my Jeep and never really had any issues, any decent tire place should be able to sipe you muds pretty cheap. That would have made them almost as good as the tires you just got, for less money, less time changing around tires twice a year, and 1 less set of tires to keep around. I've done this before to a set of goodyear mt/r's and it was a night and day difference.


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## unit28

http://www.intercotire.com/tires.php?id=11&g=1
trxus mt looks good.
------------------
I have experience with Nitto Terra Grappler on ice/snow and can say on an F150 they're a great winter tire. 
But my next set will be Nokian R Suv on the YJ

Good luck samger2, Looks good.


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## JeepTJ

cocco78;715851 said:


> Well I've always run mud tires on my Jeep and never really had any issues, any decent tire place should be able to sipe you muds pretty cheap. That would have made them almost as good as the tires you just got, for less money, less time changing around tires twice a year, and 1 less set of tires to keep around. I've done this before to a set of goodyear mt/r's and it was a night and day difference.


I paid $500 for a set of 4 of the Wintercat SST, like samger2 has. My cost included the 4 tires, studding, mounting on Crager (like samger2) Soft-8s, balancing, keeping the 4 worn out tires and mounting on my Jeep XJ. How much do siped GY MT/Rs cost for the above work (except studding of course!). My guess a lot, lot more than $500? The Wintercats are, by far, the BEST SNOW tire I have ever used in my 37 years of driving in New England winters. BTW, since my winter tires are on dedicated winter wheels (like my summer tires), it takes ME about 20 minutes to change all 4 over, while I change the oil and lube the chassis.

Fran


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## samger2

I actually like the idea of having a dedicated winter set. Keeps my alloy wheels in better shape from the salt and ice and saves wear on my far more expensive 33x12.50x15 mud terrains. Plus I work at a BMW dealership where I try to talk people away from all seasons and into winters every day...so I practice what I preach, I'd rather have optimum traction when I need it.


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## cocco78

JeepTJ;716036 said:


> I paid $500 for a set of 4 of the Wintercat SST, like samger2 has. My cost included the 4 tires, studding, mounting on Crager (like samger2) Soft-8s, balancing, keeping the 4 worn out tires and mounting on my Jeep XJ. How much do siped GY MT/Rs cost for the above work (except studding of course!). My guess a lot, lot more than $500? The Wintercats are, by far, the BEST SNOW tire I have ever used in my 37 years of driving in New England winters. BTW, since my winter tires are on dedicated winter wheels (like my summer tires), it takes ME about 20 minutes to change all 4 over, while I change the oil and lube the chassis.
> 
> Fran


I had all 4 of my mt/r's siped for $50 at the local tire shop. It felt like a 100% improvent on on road traction, plus the siping helps the tires stick to rocks and hard surfaces better off road and doesn't really effect the life of the tire. They may not be as good as a dedicated snow tire (I had blizzaks on my beater fwd car and the were great) but they are vastly improved. Plus you get the added benefit of having an agressive mud tire when the snow gets deep! I live in the UP of Michigan and we average 140" of snow a year, this year we are above average so far so I drive in the snow a little... Plus I don't have to deal with finding a place to store tires when i'm not using them, but thats my situation I don't have alot of spare room to work with right now. Tires are expensive enough and I can't afford to buy 2 sets just for one Jeep! My last set of mt/rs cost me $800, later that winter I siped them for $50. That seems cheaper than adding another $500 for another set of tires?


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## festerw

cocco78;717229 said:


> Tires are expensive enough and I can't afford to buy 2 sets just for one Jeep! My last set of mt/rs cost me $800, later that winter I siped them for $50. That seems cheaper than adding another $500 for another set of tires?


All depends what size you're running 235/75/15's are cheap, you can get decent snows for under $75/tire and AT's for under $100/tire. Throw in the fact that crappy Jeep wheels can be picked up for dirt cheap (as in under $50 for 4) it becomes a worthwile alternative even more so in my opinion if you have MT's for the summer because you'll end up getting more years of service out of each set.

FWIW the snows I have on my truck were transferred over from my Cherokee and are about 4 years old with probably another 2 or 3 years left in them.


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## cocco78

I agree to a point, its still spending more money on more tires tho. But my case is probably different than most people as I use my Jeep for wheeling all year round and DD it most of the time, so I don't want to be swapping tires around all the time. And you may get more years of service but you get the same miles out of them. Instead of a new set every 3 years you can buy 2 sets every 6 years <shrug>. Everyone situation is different tho, so I understand that and if you can afford it cool. Right now I switched to Toyo open country MT's 37x13.50R17 and I do not have them siped and they are ok, not great.


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## Lundman

Why wouldn't mud terrains work for plowing? Currently I have Bridgestone Dueler Revo's. They are ok, but I'm looking for more aggressive tread. Any suggestions


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## samger2

I'm not real sure about the plowing aspect but I do know that mud terrains in snow generally are terrible. If you look at a snow tire or an all terrain tire for that matter you'll see lots of cuts or sipes in the tread blocks, those are a big part of the reason that snow tires do so well in snow, all those sipes give the traction needed in snowy and wet weather. Mud tires have zero sipes...they're just big tread blocks of rubber with no sipes to give no flexibility in the rubber and therefore tend to slide overtop the snow.

It was a complete day and night difference from when I had mud terrains to when I put snow tires on...complete difference.


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## HALH VT

My favorites are Cooper M&S studded. I plow with them, and have them on all four wheels of my car and wife's car. For plowing I usually give them up when they are more than half worn out, and demote them to summer use. For the cars they go a little longer on the non-powered axle. I peronally wouldn't have a problem with mudders year 'round on something like a Jeep, if I could pick and choose a little bit about when and where to drive, and park it if I had to. . If my situation demanded "go or else" I would go with the M&S. 

There is something nobody has mentioned about dedicated wheels for your snow tires. Depending on how long your tires last, you may be changing the same tires over more than once. If you don't have dedicated wheels, the cost of change over, mount and balance four tires, twice a year is going to add up over the life of the tire. You can also bet that sooner or later some zero in the tire store is going to somehow destroy one of your tires with the tire machine. Even if this doesn't happen, in my opinion it doesn't do the tire any good to be mounted and dismounted multiple times.


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## samger2

I agree with everything you said above. I drove on mud terrains year round when my Jeep wasn't my daily driver...for the hardcore snow days I drove the Cherokee with all terrains. But now that my Wrangler is my daily driver I can't pick and choose when I drive it...so I opted for another set of cheap black steelies and dedicated snows.


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## J-Quad

cocco78;717411 said:


> I agree to a point, its still spending more money on more tires tho. But my case is probably different than most people as I use my Jeep for wheeling all year round and DD it most of the time, so I don't want to be swapping tires around all the time. And you may get more years of service but you get the same miles out of them. Instead of a new set every 3 years you can buy 2 sets every 6 years <shrug>. Everyone situation is different tho, so I understand that and if you can afford it cool. Right now I switched to Toyo open country MT's 37x13.50R17 and I do not have them siped and they are ok, not great.


Having a summer set of tires and a winter set of tires also works well for me. My summer tires are BFG TKOs mounted on my nice aluminum wheels. The aluminum wheels aren't punished by the salt roads of winter (sure the clear coat on the aluminum helps protect them, but it isn't the answer). My winter set include a plain set of steel wheels from a junkyard which I wirebrushed and brush-painted them with primer then black. Yeah, they involve some additional storage but that isn't an issue for me. As far as extra work, I usually pull the tires off every fall to give the brakes/seals/wheel or axle bearings a good visual inspection anyway, so I just switch tires at that time.

I am debating about summer / winter sets for my wife's car too.....because winter specific tires stop & turn MUCH better than general run-of-the-mill all season tires. Although she doesn't drive as much as me, the better tires would more likely they'd keep her out of harms way if she was to get "into a situation".

I figure I can't fix much of her or on the car for the 3 to 4 hundred dollars I'd have invested in a second set of wheels & tires for her car.

Just my 2 cents,,,,,,,, Good Luck!

J-Quad


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## JeepTJ

HALH VT;731075 said:


> ...There is something nobody has mentioned about dedicated wheels for your snow tires. Depending on how long your tires last, you may be changing the same tires over more than once. If you don't have dedicated wheels, the cost of change over, mount and balance four tires, twice a year is going to add up over the life of the tire. You can also bet that sooner or later some zero in the tire store is going to somehow destroy one of your tires with the tire machine. Even if this doesn't happen, in my opinion it doesn't do the tire any good to be mounted and dismounted multiple times.





JeepTJ;716036 said:


> ....BTW, since my winter tires are on dedicated winter wheels (like my summer tires), it takes ME about 20 minutes to change all 4 over, while I change the oil and lube the chassis.
> 
> Fran


I thought I did in an earlier post!!

Fran


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## HALH VT

JeepTJ;732195 said:


> I thought I did in an earlier post!!
> 
> Fran


I did notice that comment, but I was expanding on it. You mentioned the convenience, but didn't emphasize the cost savings. I was also pointing out the potential of tire damage due to repeated mounting dismounting. I think that depends on the ease of mounting of a particular tire. I know the low profile, 65 or lower, are much harder to mount. Some rim styles are also worse than others.


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## JeepTJ

HALH VT;732454 said:


> I did notice that comment, but I was expanding on it. You mentioned the convenience, but didn't emphasize the cost savings. I was also pointing out the potential of tire damage due to repeated mounting dismounting. I think that depends on the ease of mounting of a particular tire. I know the low profile, 65 or lower, are much harder to mount. Some rim styles are also worse than others.


Gotcha!!:salute: Instead of "convenience" I would have used "I'm a cheap SOB" payup and would rather do the work myself instead of risk damage to my tires, as you stated, by someone else. My father owned a gas station for 25 years and, as a teenager, I would help change over winter/summer tires. What does a 14 yo punk know 

Fran


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## cocco78

I wish I had a better picture of it but this is what I run on the plow Comanche, its a goodyear mt/'r 32x11.5R15 heavily grooved for traction. They were used for a race or two on an offroad race truck and picked up a set for $250 and they were like brand new except they really grooved the heck out of them for traction. they are great in the snow with all the grooves, but no siping on them. The manche doesn't get driven alot on the road tho, mostly just plowing and wheeling...


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## '76cj5

Well I got dedicated winter tires for my wife because it's cheaper to have her stay on the road than slide off it. $100 for a tow, $125.00 Ticket, $500.00 deductable on insurance, lost time. etc. yada yada yada. Not to mention she hauls the kids to school everyday and keeping your family safe is important. 

She finally had to use 4WD this week to get of our drive. We got over 12" of snow fall before I could get home and finaly plow out my drive. 

Pizza shop refused to deliver until the drive was clean. So she finally broke down and asked me to clear the drive.


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