# Plowing Insurance



## NEUSWEDE

I am not plowing this winter but will be plowing next winter and want to know what I need for insurance. I have gotten quotes for my landscape side of my company but say in bold it doesn't include plowing. What do I need insurance wish for a plowing and what general area should I expect to pay. I am in Maine and expect to have 10-30 accounts next winter half commercial and half resdential.The company that the quote for my landscaping insurance is through doesn't have a market for plowing that is why I am asking before I go looking for plowing insurance. It is awhile off just want input.
Thanks
Dylan


----------



## DJL

In essence insurance is not "mandatory" per say...Generally Speaking....


You will need General Liability (GL) for the business which covers suits like the common slip & fall. You will need a auto policy (i.e. commercial) that covers the plow on the vehicle in transport and any damage it or the vehicle causes.

Your rates will depend significantly on your deductibles.

For my particular situation...

I have a landscape company that has G&L. I pay ~$1k for a "rider" that attaches to that policy to cover my snow plowing. If I didn't have this rider I would NOT be covered for ANY type of snow plowing incidents/suits. Also, the commercial auto policy covers plow/vehicle damages.

If I were to go out and just get "snow plowing" G&L insurance the rates/quotes were anywhere from 3k on up to 5k. Again, this depends on amount of coverage, deductibles, and other factors. Therefore, I saved a few thousand by having the rider added to my current insurance policy.

I would look into changing insurance policies in your case. Talk to a reputable, recommended insurance agent who has the ability to speak with several insurance carriers.


----------



## NEUSWEDE

DJL said:


> I have a landscape company that has G&L. I pay ~$1k for a "rider" that attaches to that policy to cover my snow plowing. If I didn't have this rider I would NOT be covered for ANY type of snow plowing incidents/suits. Also, the commercial auto policy covers plow/vehicle damages.


So what your saying is that if I add a "rider" which I don't have but say I do I pay a lower rate than just getting G&L for overall.

I went through allstate for my landscape stuff that goes through a few but they claim they don't have a snow plow market. So If I just insure "another person" with G&L and don't even mention snow plowing just that they are working for me I am covered or I need to mention it has to do with plowing. I am looking into other companies just slow response with the holidays and I just wanted to get input as I am new to this and I am making a go of my company soon.
Thanks
Dylan


----------



## somm

We pay $183 a month on a million bucks of commercial vehicle insurance, and $115 a month for a million bucks of general business liability insurance. No Claims yet for 15 years, through American Family.
This million dollar level is the level most commercial accounts want from you to satisfy their underwriters. 
We pass this on to the customer, of course, but this bites because there's only 3 to 5 decent snows a year here, and we pay these rates all year long!

When i retire, i think i'm gonna be an insurance man, lol.


----------



## Mick

You really need both - Commercial Vehicle and General Liability insurance. I'm north of you about an hour. Check with an independent insurance agent for a company that can offer GL insurance - not all insurance companies do which you found out. Your rate is going to be very dependent on type of accounts, years of experience plowing snow, location, driving/claim history, personal factors like age and the particular company you insure though. Rates can vary widely from company to company.

DJL is correct, technically you are not required to have GL insurance. But if you ever have a claim for damage, a court settlement could cost you everything you have or ever will have. If you do not have Commercial Vehicle insurance and cause damage, the company could refuse to pay the claim and, again, you could lose everything ... Unfortunately, agents who claim "you are covered, all you have to do is ..." do not have to back it up unless it's in writing. That's why agents will tell you anything, but not write down anything. The only thing written is from the Underwriter - and the bill. If you press the agent on a point - he/she will eventually tell you that they will have to contact the Underwriter for clarification. I've done it - and have the documentation specifying what I wanted clarified. 

"Unless it's written, it doesn't exist".


----------



## DJL

NEUSWEDE said:


> So what your saying is that if I add a "rider" which I don't have but say I do I pay a lower rate than just getting G&L for overall.
> 
> I went through allstate for my landscape stuff that goes through a few but they claim they don't have a snow plow market. So If I just insure "another person" with G&L and don't even mention snow plowing just that they are working for me I am covered or I need to mention it has to do with plowing. I am looking into other companies just slow response with the holidays and I just wanted to get input as I am new to this and I am making a go of my company soon.
> Thanks
> Dylan


I'm not 100% that it would be lower but in my particular case and those a read on this site I believe it is true. Allstate may not insure for snow plowing. As an example. I have a dump trailer in my landscape business. I contacted my insurance company about using the dump trailer as a dumpster for house renovations. The insurance company said if I was going to do that they would give me 30 days to find another insurance company cause they don't deal with covering that particular "risk". Needless to say, I'll let the dump trailer sit for a few months during the year.

Listen to what MICK has said. He makes a VERY good point. If it isn't written into your insurance contract... chances are you are NOT covered. When the claim would come in they (ins. co.) simply would not pay and they would come right after all of your business assets.

Also, I believe you might be confusing workmens comp (WC) with G&L. G&L covers accidents, incidents, faults, etc. caused by your company (i.e. you & your employees) that damage property and/or people. Workmens Comp would cover medical costs, missed wages, and other items for employees that got hurt on the job.

Workmens comp will be affected by the type of work the employee is performing. I'm not required to carry workems comp b/c I do not have any employees (I have a member run LLC). However, I've gotten quotes for WC and it starts at a minimum $8k/yr for a "laborer" in the landscaping field. However, the cost would be less that $2k per year to have WC on a secretary. Why? The risk is less, chances are secretary isn't going to loose her hand in the stapler but chances are higher that the laborer will loose his hand in the lawn mower. Or, in this case, the snow thrower---if applicable. This may/may not reduce your WC. Also, WC is based on the amount of payroll usually with some sort of min for the year.

As a side note, it is very good to see you asking these questions BEFORE you jump into the business.


----------



## NEUSWEDE

Thanks it gives me a good idea what to look for in an insurance policy, I don't want to go broke before I start but want the right paper work so I don't go broke from a mistake when I get started. I just wanna go the legal route from the start and so I know what to factor into my work so I can pay the bills.
So now I guess I just need to get a bunch of different quotes and see what it says in the paperwork before moving forward.

Dylan


----------



## CrazyCooter

NEUSWEDE said:


> Thanks it gives me a good idea what to look for in an insurance policy, I don't want to go broke before I start but want the right paper work so I don't go broke from a mistake when I get started. I just wanna go the legal route from the start and so I know what to factor into my work so I can pay the bills.
> So now I guess I just need to get a bunch of different quotes and see what it says in the paperwork before moving forward.
> 
> Dylan


Howdy-doo;
Who did you end up finding for a reasonably priced insurance? I've been checking, but so far haven't found any that I like enough to bite on.... You?


----------



## JTS Landscaping

i pay $1973 for the year that covers me with the landscaping, mowing and plowing thats in michigan though.


----------



## NEUSWEDE

After tons and tons of research and picking the brain of my local Allstate agent and tons of calls. I can insure my truck with commercial insurance which is cheeper than regular auto and insure my company with general liability insurance and I will be covered. The commercial insurance will insure me if I back into or damage anything with my truck/anything connected to it while operating it. The general liability will protect me when on someones property. So for me doing landscaping and plowing is the way to go.


----------



## DJL

Good for you. What you can hope for now is thatthe insurance you are paying be a waste of money and never have a claim against you...


----------



## NEUSWEDE

That is what I hope for. But the world is filled with sue happy people!


----------



## jeffw

i have commercial truck insurance on my new plow rig i looked into gl and it is 1400 for 1 mil of coverage for 6 months, just plowing ect. My agent told me if i do not shovel or salt ect i really don;t need the gl insurance as there is little that can happen that would not be caused by the truck hitting something. that is what the truck insurance is for.

what is your thoughts on this?

i was thinking of getting a small salter for next year, but at those prices i would have to move alot of salt and time before i make my expenses. this is only an extra income for me, as my f/t keeps me busy. salting may be a problem as when you need it you need it now not when i get out of work.

jeff


----------



## Mick

jeffw said:


> i have commercial truck insurance on my new plow rig i looked into gl and it is 1400 for 1 mil of coverage for 6 months, just plowing ect. My agent told me if i do not shovel or salt ect i really don;t need the gl insurance as there is little that can happen that would not be caused by the truck hitting something. that is what the truck insurance is for.
> 
> what is your thoughts on this?


(My thoughts are: ) Your agent is wrong. Typical scenario - You plow a parking lot. Someone falls on that lot. Could even be days later. They can sue the property owner and you for damages. Or maybe they sue the property owner. The owner's insurance in turn sues you. Doesn't matter if you salted the lot or not. They could even claim that you're responsible because you should have salted or should have the capability to salt.


----------



## DJL

jeffw said:


> what is your thoughts on this?
> jeff


LOL, can't sue cause you didn't salt. Think about it...you have someone suing Micky-D's cause it made him fat, someone else is suing cause the D&D coffee spilled on her lap and burned her.

Dump this yahoo and find an insurance agent who knows what the heck they are talking about and is familiar with commercial plowing.


----------



## SIPLOWGUY

I've been sitting this winter out because I can't get the proper insurance that is worth getting involved in. If anyone has a link please let me know!


----------



## johntwist

jeffw said:


> i have commercial truck insurance on my new plow rig i looked into gl and it is 1400 for 1 mil of coverage for 6 months, just plowing ect. My agent told me if i do not shovel or salt ect i really don;t need the gl insurance as there is little that can happen that would not be caused by the truck hitting something. that is what the truck insurance is for.


Your agent is actually right I think. But so is Mick. That doesn't seem to make any sense I know. Here's how it is for me. Same scenario, I have the commercial policy for prop damage, up to 1 million. No G/L. Why? The quote was for about $1,700.00 a year. With the amount of plowing I do, which is all residential at the moment, there is no way I could operate at a profit paying that much for G/L. So, then you have to choose. Either don't plow or take your chances without the G/L which is what I'm doing.

Now, it is true that you can be sued, lose everything and so forth. But, I talked about this with my attorney at length and there are plenty of ways to cover yourself without G/L in this circumstance. First, yes, you can be sued, but guess what.......they have to WIN. If you are only plowing, not shoveling, sanding or salting, and you use "ordinary care" in doing it, there is virtually no chance you'll ever be found liable for some jackass who's trying to sue for slip/fall. So if you have your truck properly registered and commercially insured, proper safety equipment, amber light, you're not drunk or stoned while plowing, and not driving like a maniac, that's "ordinary care".

It's common sense, you're only hired and paid to plow and therefore it's not reasonable to say that you should be responsible for anything beyond that. You can also put a simple "disclaimer" in your contracts and invoices that indemnify you from responsibility beyond simply plowing snow. You can set up a trust and put your house and everything you own under it so if you personally get sued, even if they win they can't get a DAMNED THING!

Now, before the rest of you start coming after me like crazy, I want to point out that my comments are not directed towards guys who are running bigger businesses that can afford and should have G/L. Guy's who are doing lots, walkways, sanding/salting are much more open to a slip fall lawsuit and would probably be crazy to not have G/L insurance. But for the "one man band" who's just doing driveways, it is simply not cost effective or necessary for the reasons I've given.

Are you taking a chance? Yes. That's what life's all about, nothing ventured, nothing gained. You try to play by the rules and cover yourself the best you can, but you have to draw the line somewhere. So, talk to your lawyer, set up your trust, write up your disclaimer and do what you have to do. If they sue you, they won't win and if by some one chance in 10 thousand they do win, they won't have anything to collect. So PLOW on and to hell with the ambulance chasers!


----------



## insnow4fun

*one man show here too*

well said....johntwist....i myself am thinking of getting into this venture, and the price of GL is scaring me out of it. i try reading this site over and over, and really have not seen where a suit has been brought against a snow plower. even my insurance guy sez, a gl might not be needed. so either i need a gl or i need a new insurance guy.


----------



## Mick

John, I'd say you did a real good job of outlining the issue of insurance. As long as a person is aware of the risks and chooses to take the chance, that's their decision. Just be willing to live with it. Like any other gamble, you stand to win or lose more than the person who isn't taking that chance. It's just that for me, I'm not willing to take the risk at this point in my life. If I didn't have the GL insurance, I'd clear another $800 a year. Just like I carry full coverage insurance on my newer truck, even though it's paid for and full coverage is not required. It's just not worth the risk.


----------



## johntwist

Thanks Mick.

I agree. This has to be handled by each of us according to our own circumstances, and we all have to be able to live with the results. Another reason I can't afford the G/L is that I carry alot of life insurance. I'm 39, my wife 38. Our kids are 7yrs, 3yrs and 8 months old. I'm not willing to risk them not having their own home to grow up in should something happen to me. I'm also covered if something happens to my wife, and each of the kids is covered for funeral expenses. I hate even _thinking_ about that, but I know that we'd be going through enough grief should we lose one of them that the added financial burden is something we don't want to deal with too.

All that piece of mind costs me plenty each year, but for us we think it's worth it. Maybe for other families it's not. It's like you said, you're taking a risk. When I weighed out all the risks I have to take, I can only pay for so much insurance and unfortunately the G/L is too expensive right now. The other thing is when you think about it, out of all the threads here, all the talk about insurance, I've never seen any member say they were sued or say they lost a law suit and took a beating from it. That and cost made my choice for me for now. Hopefully, it's the right one.


----------



## DJL

johntwist,

VERY WELL SAID!  

Just have to commend you on your professional, well thought out responses in this thread. Hopefully those that are entering this business will read your posts and learn something from them.


----------



## johntwist

DJL said:


> johntwist,
> 
> VERY WELL SAID!
> 
> Just have to commend you on your professional, well thought out responses in this thread. Hopefully those that are entering this business will read your posts and learn something from them.


Thanks DJL, that's nice of you to say. When I started in this business not so long ago, I read alot of posts here that helped me alot. I'm just returning the favor.


----------



## DJL

johntwist said:


> Thanks DJL, that's nice of you to say. When I started in this business not so long ago, I read alot of posts here that helped me alot. I'm just returning the favor.


I admire the fact that you come out and say I don't have this particular insurance. But you explain it perfectly...insurance is a risk...you weighed those risks, spoke to knowledgeable people in the field (i.e. attorney), and decided what was best for YOU. You admited you are taking a risk but explained (very well) why you made your decision. You are not providing answers per say, but rather, you provide how to go about answering their own questions.


----------



## Triton Snow Systems

*insurance*

I use Pekin insurance company. Very good company and fairly priced.


----------



## The Boss1975

I have been using American Family and dont have any complaints at all !!!


----------



## Peopleeater

*Insurance*



johntwist said:


> Thanks Mick.
> 
> I agree. This has to be handled by each of us according to our own circumstances, and we all have to be able to live with the results. Another reason I can't afford the G/L is that I carry alot of life insurance. I'm 39, my wife 38. Our kids are 7yrs, 3yrs and 8 months old. I'm not willing to risk them not having their own home to grow up in should something happen to me. I'm also covered if something happens to my wife, and each of the kids is covered for funeral expenses. I hate even _thinking_ about that, but I know that we'd be going through enough grief should we lose one of them that the added financial burden is something we don't want to deal with too.
> 
> All that piece of mind costs me plenty each year, but for us we think it's worth it. Maybe for other families it's not. It's like you said, you're taking a risk. When I weighed out all the risks I have to take, I can only pay for so much insurance and unfortunately the G/L is too expensive right now. The other thing is when you think about it, out of all the threads here, all the talk about insurance, I've never seen any member say they were sued or say they lost a law suit and took a beating from it. That and cost made my choice for me for now. Hopefully, it's the right one.


I think this was very well stated, also. It will probably be the same for me when /if I go out on my own next year. I am incorporated, so would be hoping if I did get sued, that it would be at least limited to the business, instead of them going after personal things too. At least this way our family will be somewhat protected. If I can make enough to afford insurance, I would happily (maybe not happily) pay for the protection. If you are not incorporated john twist, then maybe that would be a good thing to check out too. I drive a semi truck, and ormed the corporation so they couldn't go after personal stuff, unless of course they could prove I was negligent in operating it. I do have insurance for the semi though, but not any G/L insurance.

Be very careful, and hope that things work out ok, then maybe you won't have to risk it in following years.

I think anyone in business for themselves should consider forming a corporation for this protection. Has some fringe benefits to it, but the protection is probably the best thing that comes from it. Lots more headaches than just getting paid and paying taxes. Get a good accountant to handle the legal tax stuff (quarterly reports, unemployment taxes, etc.). The equipment or purchases are taken straight from the business, so won't have to worry about paying taxes on that money, just profit for the business. I'm still learning about them though. Learn something everyday.

Jeff

***Edit*** 
Some places will require you to show proof that you are insured, though. And insured to certain limits. Bussies need to show they have $1 Million in coverage (G/L)


----------



## RIDE 818

Good afternoon, 

I am trying to get myself organised, as I am in the process of opening my company for snow removal. I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I would like to thank all you you for all your recommendations and honesty. It is greatly appreciated. Anyone live near me that can help me with some details. Seems to be that no insurance companies want to insure for only snow plowing. 

Thanks 
Darsey


----------



## CUCV

I live in NH and use Maine Mutual insurance. I have a landscaping policy that clearly states that I do snow plowing. The GL is very reasonable. The commercial auto with plowing is where they get you but I feel the price I pay is still reasonable. However, you should have commercial auto for landscaping too. There is a difference in price between a landscaping truck and a landscaping truck with a plow but that difference was not all that big.


----------



## RIDE 818

Thank you for that information,I will look around now. Do you know by experience how much i would be able to write off on my taxes, for my gas, insurance and truck payments ?
Cheers !


----------



## Mick

RIDE 818;536341 said:


> Thank you for that information,I will look around now. Do you know by experience how much i would be able to write off on my taxes, for my gas, insurance and truck payments ?
> Cheers !


You can claim those as Business Expense deductions except the payments (you claim "Depreciation"). How much it equates to depends on your tax bracket.You don't "write off" anything.


----------



## tjlands

Just one comment on the liability issue. I know one guy that got sued and lost because he pushed snow up a small incline in a parking lot. With all the freeze thaw cycles we have in NJ, the snow melting and running down hill and re-freezing caused a hazardous condition that an old timer fell and broke his leg getting out of his car 8 days after the snowfall. So my point is just that you don't have to be responsible for salting and shoveling to have liability for slip and falls.
So be careful and Good Luck


----------



## lawndude703

if you contract with another company do you still need this type of insurance


----------



## 06HD BOSS

lawndude703;566502 said:


> if you contract with another company do you still need this type of insurance


both companies involved need to be full insured.


----------



## bigmudder77

when i was doing lawn care my ins was $700 a year for a million coverage for like property and only about $5000 coverage on my stuff (i know it was not even close to the cost of stuff on the trailer if i got in an accident but they said my truck ins would cover that not this ins. 

when i got quotes for plowing ins it was like $250-320 a month 

so ya i didnt get a plow on last year but im putting one on this year and not telling them one is on there i already have $500,000 property damage on the truck 250,000 medical or maybe it was the other way around i dont know i havnt looked at it in a while i do it yearly cause i get discounts


----------



## purpleranger519

bigmudder77;568982 said:


> when i was doing lawn care my ins was $700 a year for a million coverage for like property and only about $5000 coverage on my stuff (i know it was not even close to the cost of stuff on the trailer if i got in an accident but they said my truck ins would cover that not this ins.
> 
> when i got quotes for plowing ins it was like $250-320 a month
> 
> so ya i didnt get a plow on last year but im putting one on this year and not telling them one is on there i already have $500,000 property damage on the truck 250,000 medical or maybe it was the other way around i dont know i havnt looked at it in a while i do it yearly cause i get discounts


Not telling them you have a plow is not what you want to do. Say you get in an accident while plowing. For one if you don't have your trucked listed as having an accessory (plow) attached to it, it will not be covered if damaged. Not to mention tons of other legal issues you might find for not having coverage.


----------



## Iac89

*insurance*

ok so heres a question i own apartments which is a residential lot but its connected to a commercial lot in which the lady who owns it wants me to plow i have truck insurance but what happens if i plow her lot and someone slips and falls do i get sued personally or will my truck insurance cover it we did not sign a contract im doing it more as a favor for her i live in buffalo ny


----------



## plownoob

your truck insurance will only cover property. You need liability/umbrella for slip and falls.


----------



## Mick

Iac89;660824 said:


> ok so heres a question i own apartments which is a residential lot but its connected to a commercial lot in which the lady who owns it wants me to plow i have truck insurance but what happens if i plow her lot and someone slips and falls do i get sued personally or will my truck insurance cover it we did not sign a contract im doing it more as a favor for her i live in buffalo ny


Plownoob is right, your truck insurance will not cover a "slip and fall". Yes, you will get sued personally. Remember, "No good deed goes unpunished". Doing as a favor is irrelevant. If you get Liability insurance, make sure it is for "Commercial Properties". Plowing your own properties should be covered under your owner's property liability policy, but not plowing any other property. Also, check your truck insurance policy for using it to plow snow for anything other than your own property - favor or paid. You might get a surprise.


----------



## Iac89

*insurance*

OK so obv i am new at this all i need is general liabillity coverage and to make sure thats its good for plowing commercial driveways correct if i get general liabillity is that good for residential and commercial? Also whats the cost of this for just basic coverage? and can you recommend me a good insurance company?


----------



## Iac89

Also gen liability will cover slip and falls on commercial driveways while my regular truck insurance will cover anything i hit correct?


----------



## Mick

Iac89;661277 said:


> OK so obv i am new at this all i need is general liabillity coverage and to make sure thats its good for plowing commercial driveways correct if i get general liabillity is that good for residential and commercial? Also whats the cost of this for just basic coverage? and can you recommend me a good insurance company?


General liability comes in three basic forms; Residential, Commercial and Municipal. One will not GENERALLY include another, but could on a limited basis. Around here, your apartment complex would be considered Commercial. There is no such thing as "basic coverage"; it's not like auto insurance. The cost will depend on your specific circumstances. Where I pay $850/yr for $1 million, someone else may pay 3-4x that. Start with your insurance agent. Next choice - find an independent agent - one not affiliated with a specific company.


----------



## Mick

Iac89;661281 said:


> Also gen liability will cover slip and falls on commercial driveways while my regular truck insurance will cover anything i hit correct?


If it's a "Commercial Vehicle" policy noting use as a plow truck. PERSONAL USE policies will not always cover use as a plowtruck


----------



## plownoob

farm family. farmfamily.com. FYI, they're hesitant to underwrite people just starting out. Make sure you have some experience before you call. And don't just ask about snow plow coverage. If it's an accessory activity, it's a lot cheaper.


----------



## branko1

I've been going through my truck's owner's manual and under "snowplowing" there was a big warning "do not use this vehicle for snow plowing." It is a ford ranger and obviously there are people that use it to plow. My question is if I do plow with it will it make my insurance void? Or in part void?


----------



## Mick

branko1;661815 said:


> I've been going through my truck's owner's manual and under "snowplowing" there was a big warning "do not use this vehicle for snow plowing." It is a ford ranger and obviously there are people that use it to plow. My question is if I do plow with it will it make my insurance void? Or in part void?


Probably not. It'll just possibly void any warranty.


----------



## ramblinman522

Call my agent WJ Farmer Insurance. They saved me $800 off my commercial auto insurance and $400 off my general liability insurance. 1-800-409-9390


----------



## ramblinman522

Iac89;661277 said:


> OK so obv i am new at this all i need is general liabillity coverage and to make sure thats its good for plowing commercial driveways correct if i get general liabillity is that good for residential and commercial? Also whats the cost of this for just basic coverage? and can you recommend me a good insurance company?


My insurance agent saved me a ton of money. I just have one Ford F250 with a plow. By ton of money I mean they saved me $800 on the commercial auto and $600 on the general liability. WJ Farmer Insurance 1-800-409-9390 X4


----------



## hinikersnowplow

who needs to have g l when you are just pulling into a comercail lot to plow snow and not do any salting . i don't bother with the salting just a waste of time for me . commercial insurance on truck /plow only for me . my aganet told me if i'm doing any salting or shoveling i said no . insurance people told me to go get a contract made by a lawyer stating i will not be held responible . the property owners that i plow snow for . they sign it and i sign . my contract states that i don't do any salting or shoveling or snowblowing . if someone falls on the lot they can't touch me what so ever because property owners have signed papers . i only cover any damages to property only . prsport


----------



## Mick

hinikersnowplow;672774 said:


> who needs to have g l when you are just pulling into a comercail lot to plow snow and not do any salting . i don't bother with the salting just a waste of time for me . commercial insurance on truck /plow only for me . my aganet told me if i'm doing any salting or shoveling i said no . insurance people told me to go get a contract made by a lawyer stating i will not be held responible . the property owners that i plow snow for . they sign it and i sign . my contract states that i don't do any salting or shoveling or snowblowing . if someone falls on the lot they can't touch me what so ever because property owners have signed papers . i only cover any damages to property only . prsport


Good luck with that. ALWAYS believe EVERYTHING an insurance agent says when they're trying to sell you a policy. It wasn't State Farm, was it?


----------



## hinikersnowplow

a company hires you to plow a lot only i.it not my job to take care of the salting . if they want salt they can go with someone esle . my dad has plowed for 30 plus years never did have to have g l insurance . i can see having g /l if you are doing the salting . but just snow plowing not a problem . by the way mick it was not STATE FARM THEY SUCK THERE PRICES ARE FRIGGING HIGHER THAN ANYTHING


----------



## tjlands

hinikersnowplow;673122 said:


> a company hires you to plow a lot only i.it not my job to take care of the salting . if they want salt they can go with someone esle . my dad has plowed for 30 plus years never did have to have g l insurance . i can see having g /l if you are doing the salting . but just snow plowing not a problem


Serious?
Where are you located? Fantasy Land?


----------



## ppandr

$2,340.... for the 08-09 season with 1 million coverage per and 2 million agrregate. THat is in NJ for residential and commercial. They actually requested copies of my commercial contracts this year. Last year was $2,100.00. The same company has our auto, gen. liab. and w/c. We do gross $25-75k/year with snow.

And I would never plow anything without insurance, period. Way to many people out there looking for a friggin hand out. Does not matter wether you plow, salt, shovel, etc If someone slips and falls(*or anything else) they will sue EVERYONE who stepped onto the lot. Without insurance you defend yourself. AND...when they do file a claim against you in civil court kiss your credit score good bye by 50 pts.


----------



## hinikersnowplow

tjlands;673186 said:


> Serious?
> Where are you located? Fantasy Land?


heck i'm in indiana . i have commercial insurance to cover any damage done to the property . not people that fall on there sweet a$$ . either way that person can't go after me lol. just what my lawyer said he wrote my contracts up . stating not responible slips and falls if property owners sign it they pay me to plow lot . not salting .


----------



## tjlands

hinikersnowplow;674097 said:


> heck i'm in indiana . i have commercial insurance to cover any damage done to the property . not people that fall on there sweet a$$ . either way that person can't go after me lol. just what my lawyer said he wrote my contracts up . stating not responible slips and falls if property owners sign it they pay me to plow lot . not salting .


Hey do what you want, there is not a contract in the world that could stop a negligence lawsuit and your great lawyer should have explained that to you. From ice forming from melting snow that YOU plowed. Or a kid running out or over or around a pile of snow that YOU piled, of course in the wrong spot, and gets hurt or -----. Right, you don't need liability insurance. 
You could get lucky for 30 years and then one time, your done.


----------



## mksuwndr

I wouldt just be worried about somebody slipping or falling(no contract will hold up in court). These guys are all right. If you would happen to hit a pedestrian in that lot while you were plowing you might as well kiss your life and money goodbye. Alot of places are now requiring 1 mil 2mil aggregate just for you to plow thier lots.


----------



## hinikersnowplow

i only plow 10 commercial lots . so the g l is not gonna get me any where . i would only lose profit if i went with g l .


----------



## BIGBEN2004

My Insurance agent is running my sub contracting snow plowing under my normal General Liability on my excavating company. He said I don't need any special snow plow G I and that my G I on my excavating company would cover any accidents or law suits should they happen. Like I said though I am a sub contractor so I have no direct contact with the people we are plowing for so maybe that makes it a little different.


----------



## ptllandscapeIL

Hey who does everyone have for insurance???? Ive had a few comany over the years,Selective insurance,acuity,Indiana(sub of liberty mutal) and current have american family,I go through a broker to see whatever gives me the best rate for my buck had a claim last year for the first time and it was not worth it!!!!


----------



## daredevil1

Does anyone know of an auto insurance company that will cover me if I have a plow that is for personal use only? I don't want to get commercial truck insurance or business insurance if I don't need it. Thanks.


----------



## Mick

daredevil1;721664 said:


> Does anyone know of an auto insurance company that will cover me if I have a plow that is for personal use only? I don't want to get commercial truck insurance or business insurance if I don't need it. Thanks.


Are you plowing anything other than your own property (rented or owned)?

If no, then your homeowner insurance will cover that property. Many insurance company policies will also cover you if you are traveling between your home and the nearest gas station.

If yes, then you are plowing commercially and need commercial insurance,


----------



## daredevil1

Will just be plowing my own for now. Have to pick up the plow which is 40 miles away though.


----------



## G.S.Landscaping

I am new to all this stuff and want to know if you need plowing insurance? and over the next 2 years my buisness will hopefully pick up and i want to know about the landscaping side of my company.. how much? who has it? how to apply? what it will cover? i have alway wondered about this and also if you could help me out on info on how to get your company licensed and how much will that cost how do you do that?? ussmileyflag


----------



## Mick

G.S.Landscaping;728383 said:


> I am new to all this stuff and want to know if you need plowing insurance? and over the next 2 years my buisness will hopefully pick up and i want to know about the landscaping side of my company.. how much? who has it? how to apply? what it will cover? i have alway wondered about this and also if you could help me out on info on how to get your company licensed and how much will that cost how do you do that?? ussmileyflag


Yes.

Best to check with an insurance agent who writes commercial policies in your area. Start by looking in the phone book.

Also, for business licensing/registration, check with your town/county/state clerk. You might also find information on the Internet. Search something like "Business Structure in Ohio" or "Ohio.gov"


----------



## StonewallFarms

Do any of you Mass. guys recommend an Insurance Company? I'm looking to make a switch for my commercial policy and get an GL policy for plowing


----------



## South Seneca

I just made a couple calls to insurance companies I've done business with so I could get a feel for prices. One company said, for just myself, with one pickup plowing, my premium would be in the neighborhood of $4800 for a million dollar in liability coverage.
I'm in a rural area and don't expect to even take in $4800 in a winter.
My auto insurance company said they don't insure vehicles used for any type of plowing done with the exception of my own driveway.

So let's do this. If you have an insurance company that charges reasonable rates for the job you are doing, give us the company names here so the rest of us can call companies that know what we really need.


----------



## Mick

Or maybe just not plow. Find something else for an income.


----------



## blue sky guy

I carry 2 mil GL for $650. Was $1200.00 but having a good agency to shop your policy makes a difference! Once you have 5 yrs in doing the snow or landscape, the companies compete for your business and offer better rates. Again find an agency that does multiple insurance. Note: my policy insures my business in MI for lawn and snow at a pretty good rate. Hope that offers some help to anyone. My auto commercial policy started out at $2500---now $1200 for truck. I have a question for the site??


----------



## blue sky guy

My question is...If someone like a family member buys a truck and wants to plow for you...what steps are necessary to be covered??


----------



## mjleno

*GL & Life Insurance*

Hey buddy, I've been plowing my house, mom's and my office for over 5 years. All this is covered under my commercial auto policy on my truck. The liability coverage, plus my personal umbrella covers me. The personal umbrella is great to have and cheap, 5million will cost you about $300/yr. So if someone slips in "your" driveway, such as the UPS guy, your neighbor, etc. you are covered. However, not if you are doing it for a fee "for hire". Then you need the GL. As for having the GL or not, because you only plow and don't shovel or salt, always good to err on the safe side. In life, in order to make a profit, you are going to have expenses. Increase your rates......people WILL pay.
I understand the life insurance needs. Have you considered replacing your existing policies? I am a Certified Financial Planner by profession; when it snows, I don't see clients as they don't want to travel in the bad weather, so it affords me some extra time to make some extra money, I'm on the road doing it for my office and family anyway, what's a few more hours doing some residential driveways? We need to have multiple streams of income from multiple sources to make it ahead in the current world. Anyway, as I digress, rates have dropped for new applicants as of Jan 1, 2009. New mortality tables. I can most likely get you more coverage for the same remaining time or the same coverage for a longer period or just replace the existing with a new policy and your premium should be reduced, sometimes "substantially". Look me up; www.ameripriseadvisors.com/michael.j.leno hope I can help you more. Have a great new year. Yes, I am aware that this post is several years old. Maybe you see this, maybe not, maybe someone else reads it and gives me a call. It's all good.


----------



## 78Craft

There are two different types of GL policies for snow removal. The class code you guys will want to use is 99310. There is an option for just general and also an additional rider for completed operations, which would cover if someone fell. 

The GL will cover you and your truck when the blade is dropped or the salt is flying. When you are on the highway not doing 'plow related' activities your buisness auto/commercial insurance will cover it. Depending on the coverage on your vehicle it can also cover your salter and blade if you add'd the additional equipment to the policy with property damage coverage.


----------



## 78Craft

blue sky guy;1112535 said:


> My question is...If someone like a family member buys a truck and wants to plow for you...what steps are necessary to be covered??


You would have to add an addional employee to the GL policy. Would also want to make sure he had the proper coverage on his truck to make sure He is covered.


----------



## joepetrilli

*Snow Plow Insurance*

What a pain! I have been trying to acquire a policy so I can plow streets for the town. What a pain! I have GE for my Landscaping Bus. and they don't want anything to do with Snow Plowing. I have waited weeks for people to get back to me with quotes only to say we cant do it. Two said they can do it for $1650 but that's without the 1 million Umbrella the city wants. The one finally got back to me to say the umbrella would cost a additional $2700! WTF. I just invested in a new truck and plow for $50,000.00 and Plow Ins.going to cost close to $4500 and what if doesn't snow! I Hate this state Please if any one knows a good Ins. Company let me know I have been waiting for another quote and now the girls on vac and no one else there seems to know what she was doing or not.


----------



## joepetrilli

*Nj insurance*

What a pain! I have been trying to acquire a policy so I can plow streets for the town. What a pain! I have GE for my Landscaping Bus. and they don't want anything to do with Snow Plowing. I have waited weeks for people to get back to me with quotes only to say we cant do it. Two said they can do it for $1650 but that's without the 1 million Umbrella the city wants. The one finally got back to me to say the umbrella would cost a additional $2700! WTF. I just invested in a new truck and plow for $50,000.00 and Plow Ins.going to cost close to $4500 and what if doesn't snow! I Hate this state Please if any one knows a good Ins. Company let me know I have been waiting for another quote and now the girls on vac and no one else there seems to know what she was doing or not.


----------



## propertycare

Looking for PA Commercial Snow and Ice Insurance


----------



## joepetrilli

I don't know about Maine but just found out my plow insurance will be more than double this year! Over $4000 for one plow! Crazy I would think twice!


----------



## Ben/Insurance

Mick is 100% correct and his advice is sound. This scenario just underscores the importance of dealing with a good, reputable independent insurance agent. I can't tell you how often I review cheap, substandard insurance policies where either the client doesn't care (just wants cheap insurance), or the insurance agent (usually a captive) has no idea what is covered and gives the client the wrong advice. I deal with this scenario every day.
Reach out to a good, larger sized independent agent. Seriously, we are your best resource.
Ben/Insurance


----------



## Dogplow Dodge

Grave diggers !


----------



## Mick

Thanks, Ben. As you can see. the question of insurance is an age-old problem. Even more so now than five years ago when I wrote the first post on this page. And it's only going to get worse. The part-timer is getting squeezed out. I'd still say you'll be better off finding something else.


----------



## bran1har

If I was to plow without comm insurance or GL, wouldn't it be better to not write up any contracts with anyone and just find clients that are willing to pay cash on the spot and then if anything happens I could just say I was never there, I didn't plow the driveway and no transaction ever occured? Not to be a scumbag but if something went wrong and the customer was really pissed, theoretically I could just be out of there.


----------



## SnoFarmer

bran1har;1878850 said:


> If I was to plow without comm insurance or GL, wouldn't it be better to not write up any contracts with anyone and just find clients that are willing to pay cash on the spot and then if anything happens I could just say I was never there, I didn't plow the driveway and no transaction ever occured? Not to be a scumbag but if something went wrong and the customer was really pissed, theoretically I could just be out of there.


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
I needed that.

& Ah no.

You can run but you can't hide, contract or no contract.

what do you have of value, because you will need to sell it to pay the person you backed over. Not only that any and all future moneys until the dept is paid.

What could go wrong, when lowing for beer money?


----------



## South Seneca

Guys think they can get away without plow Insurance because they know what they're doing. The trouble is, there are so many stupid drivers on the road and they'll get behind you when you least expect it.

Not long ago a plow truck backed over a woman who walked behind it when it was backing while plowing a convenience store lot. It happened during a nasty snow storm when visibility wasn't good when driving forward, let alone backing. If I remember right she was killed. I don't know if the family sued but it wouldn't be a surprise if they did.


----------



## JonnyCash

I found out my insurance company was no longer insuring any part of snow plowing back in October. After getting quotes from all of the local insurance agencies, I thought I was going be plowing just to pay them. I ended up getting a gl policy through Stratum out of California. It was comparable to what I was paying last year, and they had the fastest turnaround time out of all the others. I dealt with Mike, and he stays in the office late every night getting it done. Hopefully everyone has their insurance squared away by now, but I just thought I would share the info.


----------



## Harrison W

Say a I have a small commercial parking lot, around 20 spots. can I get sued by management if someone falls even if I dont have a contract? Or if im salting as a sub for a friend, someone falls and sues them, can they then sue me if theres no contract in place? Im only 18 with a couple family/ family friends for accts,trying to grow plowing side, so no commercial insurance yet.


----------



## Luther

Not having a written contract in place does work in your favor. Your sub example even more so. But it is against standards and not a guarantee that you can’t get sued.


----------



## conradosantaliz

JTS Landscaping said:


> i pay $1973 for the year that covers me with the landscaping, mowing and plowing thats in michigan though.


What insurance company di you have let me know


----------



## Mr.Markus

conradosantaliz said:


> What insurance company di you have let me know


Just a heads up that the post you quoted was from 2005... 15 yrs ago.


----------



## blueridgeLC

We have a BOP policy with Erie, commercial auto, and 5 star contractors policy, 1 million for both. However everyone is different, we also have 250k for equipment, we also have errors and emissions, we also have umbrella, we also have snow and ice management, this gets touchy however, ultimately our policy is 10k a year give or take


----------

