# another torsion bar question



## craigd (Jan 5, 2008)

I just bought a 09 chevy 2500hd and I needed to turn up the torsions to get a little more ground clearance for my western mount. My question is...how many turns can I give them without getting an alignment? How many turns are there total? I gave them 4 turns and got about an extra inch of clearance. Ideally i'd like to turn them back down when the winter is over...this is why I want to turn them up as much as I can without messing with the alignment. The last thing I want to do is tear up a brand new set of tires. I'd appreciate any input.


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## Novadiecast (Jul 16, 2007)

Every time you turn them say goodbye to your alignment. I turn my bars up 8 turns when I get out the plow for the season. I turn them back down in the spring. And keep your tires rotated.


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## jb1390 (Sep 23, 2008)

I don't think that turning them up or down affects the alignment much if it all, it is all designed to pivot together. If it did affect it, then the truck would not drive straight as you added weight, such as a plow. I am sure there are very minor effects, but nothing to be too worried about.


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## k&j Landscaping (Nov 17, 2008)

Turn mine up in winter and back down in spring. Never had a problem, tires have worn just fine. 4-5 turns gave me the extra umph needed for my plow set-up.


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## Q101ATFD (Oct 24, 2006)

jb1390;873744 said:


> I don't think that turning them up or down affects the alignment much if it all, it is all designed to pivot together. If it did affect it, then the truck would not drive straight as you added weight, such as a plow. I am sure there are very minor effects, but nothing to be too worried about.


You couldn't be more wrong in that statement. The torsion bar setting has a direct effect on the camber of the front tires. Turn the torsion bolts without an alignment, and you'll wear the outer edges of your tires bald in no time.

To the OP, I wouldn't go more than 4 turns without checking alignment. At the very least, go to a Tire Discounters or Pep Boys - if it's still within factory specs, they won't charge you.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

I don't think 4 or 5 turns will hurt anything. The thing that will probably make your tires wear more is the added weight of the plow.


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## Sydenstricker Landscaping (Dec 17, 2006)

I turned mine up quite a few turns and it threw the alignment way out of line. Conrad's gave me a nice little print out showing me how far out it was from stock tolerances, lol. I would just crank them and leave it. Why spend a bunch on alignments every time you go up or down with the t-bars?? But the choice is ultimately yours since it is your truck and your money!!!!!


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Sydenstricker Landscaping;874242 said:


> I turned mine up quite a few turns and it threw the alignment way out of line. Conrad's gave me a nice little print out showing me how far out it was from stock tolerances, lol. I would just crank them and leave it. Why spend a bunch on alignments every time you go up or down with the t-bars?? But the choice is ultimately yours since it is your truck and your money!!!!!


Agreed! If your going to raise them just leave them there, after all it is a truck!


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## highlander316 (Oct 18, 2006)

i went about 4 turns (maybe even 6, I don't remember) with timbrens, and needed an alignment.


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## ticki2 (Jan 10, 2006)

It seems to me that you have to determine WHEN you want it to be in alignment. When it's loaded in the back. When the plow is down. When the plow is up. When it's empty.


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## craigd (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I might get an alignment and just leave it like that. 4 turns seems just right...although i'll probably wait until I plow with it for the first time just to make sure. I just don't want to max them out and end up with ball joint issues, etc. Ballast would have solved a lot of my problem, but I can't have the western receivers scraping my driveway every time I pull in....and that's without the plow on. I never had this problem with the f250, but I still love this truck. just gotta iron out the wrinkles.


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Even a half turn will knock out the alignment. I know I've done many. Now will it knock it out of spec, maybe not, but it will change it. If you turn up the bars the only result you get is further travel for the truck to sag. It will not carry the plow better. The only thing I rec playing with the bars for is to get your push beam/plates to the correct height for the attack angle of the plow.


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

rsvees;874346 said:


> Even a half turn will knock out the alignment. I know I've done many. Now will it knock it out of spec, maybe not, but it will change it. If you turn up the bars the only result you get is further travel for the truck to sag. It will not carry the plow better. The only thing I rec playing with the bars for is to get your push beam/plates to the correct height for the attack angle of the plow.


My boss has been doing allignments for 35 years. And he always says changing the t bar adjustments affects the allignment In a very small way. I cranked my t bars 4 turns over a year ago and its never been on the allignment rack and my tires are perfectly worn 22k miles later!:salute:


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

Sydenstricker Landscaping;874242 said:


> I turned mine up quite a few turns and it threw the alignment way out of line. Conrad's gave me a nice little print out showing me how far out it was from stock tolerances, lol. I would just crank them and leave it. Why spend a bunch on alignments every time you go up or down with the t-bars?? But the choice is ultimately yours since it is your truck and your money!!!!!


Ya thats because it was out to start with ! I dont see where it says u had it checked, then turned the bars and had it re checked?Because it would have made the slightest change.


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

rsvees;874346 said:


> Even a half turn will knock out the alignment. I know I've done many. Now will it knock it out of spec, maybe not, but it will change it. If you turn up the bars the only result you get is further travel for the truck to sag. It will not carry the plow better. The only thing I rec playing with the bars for is to get your push beam/plates to the correct height for the attack angle of the plow.


 What are u on anyway?:laughing:


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## Sydenstricker Landscaping (Dec 17, 2006)

I get my truck aligned each and every year after plowing season. So it was in check prior to me cranking the t-bars. If cranking the t-bars has little to no affect on the alignment, then come out here and show me what is wrong with mine and most everyone else's trucks then. Or you just may have a special truck from GM that the t-bars have no affect on the alignment.


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

brad96z28;874804 said:


> What are u on anyway?:laughing:


10 years as a mechanic, oh and training by Hunter in alignments. Sure the change may be small, but it will wear the tires if you don't rotate them 5k or sooner. Also like I said it won't have any effect on how the truck carries the plow. You aren't making the bar stiffer your just giving it further to travel.


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## dlstelma (Sep 19, 2009)

Are you sure about this? Last time I rode in a truck that had the torsion bars adjusted to lift the front, it rode like a lumber wagon! You are changing the height of the truck because additional forces are being added from additional twist in the torsion bars. If you want additional travel in the suspension, get a suspension lift that changes the geometry.


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

The reason it rides rougher is because of the change in geometry and the fact that the stock shocks aren't long enough for the extra travel. Trust me I have played with these bars and plows for long enough to understand this much. Also going up one step in bars does very little to help as well. Steve found that out when he went from the GL to the XG bars. If you have a coil spring squeeze it. It doesn't change the weight of the spring just how far it's been squeezed... If that makes sense.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

If the bars are cranked too far it can affect the geometry enough to affect the ride some. The biggest problem when cranking the bars is that down travel is greatly reduced. Either by the shock absorber, or little/no travel before the a-frame hits the frame.


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## dlstelma (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm not going to argue the physics behind geometry, variable spring rates, torsion, compression, etc (sorry for addressing some of the hi-jacking)......but to address the original post, an alignment of the tires is typically set to get the most life of the tires where the most driving is done. if you change the geometry of the tires to the ground (e.g. turning left or right, expanding/ contracting the suspension, etc) your tires will wear faster because it's not set up for that position. I'd lift the front by turning the torsion bars, get it aligned and call it good. I assume you'll be driving the most without the plow. Don't drive it all over if you're not plowing.


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

Sydenstricker Landscaping;875200 said:


> I get my truck aligned each and every year after plowing season. So it was in check prior to me cranking the t-bars. If cranking the t-bars has little to no affect on the alignment, then come out here and show me what is wrong with mine and most everyone else's trucks then. Or you just may have a special truck from GM that the t-bars have no affect on the alignment.


.................


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

Sydenstricker Landscaping;875200 said:


> I get my truck aligned each and every year after plowing season. So it was in check prior to me cranking the t-bars. If cranking the t-bars has little to no affect on the alignment, then come out here and show me what is wrong with mine and most everyone else's trucks then. Or you just may have a special truck from GM that the t-bars have no affect on the alignment.


Nope just have the same truck everyone else has that cranking of the bar affects it so very little. Every year after plowing season Is checking it prior to turning up the t bars? I guess all the ones that goes on the rack in our shop is special aparently.


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## BigLou80 (Feb 25, 2008)

brad96z28;874790 said:


> My boss has been doing allignments for 35 years. And he always says changing the t bar adjustments affects the allignment In a very small way. I cranked my t bars 4 turns over a year ago and its never been on the allignment rack and my tires are perfectly worn 22k miles later!:salute:


same here, did three or four turns two years ago, I installed new tires before last winter and they showed no signs of mis alignment when I had them rotated last week


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

Anybody try those $200 leveling kits? I would like front and back to sit almost level on my 08 Chevy HD.


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## Q101ATFD (Oct 24, 2006)

mossman381;876767 said:


> Anybody try those $200 leveling kits? I would like front and back to sit almost level on my 08 Chevy HD.


They are a waste of money for $200. They don't do anything but give you a re-indexed key to make you think you have more available lift than you do. Just use the ones that you have, you'll just have less threads left on the adjustment bolts afterwards.


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## Newdude (Dec 4, 2006)

craigd;873285 said:


> I just bought a 09 chevy 2500hd and I needed to turn up the torsions to get a little more ground clearance for my western mount. My question is...how many turns can I give them without getting an alignment? How many turns are there total? I gave them 4 turns and got about an extra inch of clearance. Ideally i'd like to turn them back down when the winter is over...this is why I want to turn them up as much as I can without messing with the alignment. The last thing I want to do is tear up a brand new set of tires. I'd appreciate any input.


I would say that it would probably need no more than 3 ro 4 turns per bar. Maybe, just maybe 5. Anything further, like 8 turns, then you would 100% need a front end alignment. If you stuck with 3-4 turns, run that in

the winter months, then from spring to fall run them back to normal. I would think that making a mark with whiteout or some marker would help too. Mark them at factory position, then at the (3-4) turned position.


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## craigd (Jan 5, 2008)

I guess I understand the concept behind what the torsion bars do...and I can picture what might happen to the alignment when the bars are turned up. It bothers me that I have to turn them up to get a little ground clearance...but I have to. After having the truck side mount installed I had to crank the bars just to get myself into the acceptable range to set up the plow. The plow was on my f250 previously and had to be reconfigured for this truck...another topic altogether...nothing came apart like it should have and I had to do some cutting/torching/hammering/etc. The truck doesn't get driven much, so I guess I'll get it aligned when I have time and just leave it that way. I also never tow anything and I like the look of the truck with the bars up a little.


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