# Help with this Commercial Lot



## webbytech (Oct 17, 2008)

Heres the story. This is the bank I bank at and they have someone else do it.

We got a 17" snow this last week and the other company came through and made 1 pass through the lot (did not clear any parking stalls, sidewalks or drive throughs). Bank manager called in a panic and I went over and cleared it so they could open for business but now they want to know what I would charge to do it all the time.

at 17" snow it took roughly an hour to clear it to the asphalt. Sidewalk is wide enough that I can back drag it.

What would you charge for just straight plowing, no salting?


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Need to know what the specs of the contract are? trigger? no tolerance? (probably not with no salt but you get the idea) 
also whats your hourly rate? everything gets based off your hourly rate......


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Is this a national bank? If so ,how is the manger agreeing to this? I would call him and ask who is the property manger for these banks first.
6k for the season.


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## webbytech (Oct 17, 2008)

Grandview
Its a locally owned bank, not a national.

As far as my hourly, ive never done anything but residential and get $25-$50 for driveways depending on length.

This is the first Ive ever been asked to do. They have 2 locations but this is the one that needs a bid right now.

I was thinking $200-$250/push? They want it triggered at 1-2". I can say that this week is the first major snowfall we've had in 2 years so I dont think they'd go for a seasonal deal


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

If it took you an hour with 17 inches you know that one hour would be a fair bid time. I would bid it at 125.00. Of course I wouldnt take it without salt at my discretion. That would be at 100.00 per time. and the trigger would be defined. Not or two inches but it would be one and anything under that would be salted. Walks would be extra.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

If plowing needs to be done during the day to keep drives open charge them hourly with travel time.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

^^^^^ this guy is about dead on. $100/125 per push plus salt


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## lucky921 (Dec 31, 2012)

i get a lot more than that and my lot half the size and i go by the inch


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Superior L & L;1628468 said:


> ^^^^^ this guy is about dead on. $100/125 per push plus salt


To heck with that.... There is no money to be made with that type of pricing.

Even if he can back drag the sidewalks, they should still be cleaned with a blower or something to prevent slip and falls.

250 per push up to 5".

Another 150.00 per salt app, and that's only using bulk and not bagged material.

.........


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

Tell them you'll plow it for free if they give you a 40k loan for a new truck, and only charge you for 20k at 2% interest lol.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

TThere is no money to be made at 125? He just said it took him a hour at 17 inches so a normal snow maybe 45 minutes. That is well over 125.00 per hour and if that isnt good enough then I guess good luck to you on getting more. Also that lot would be at best 800 lbs of bulk salt so a hundred bucks per time puts you at over 200 a ton. Many days I bet it wouldnt take 500 lbs. That to me is fair pricing. And I did say the walks were extra.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Italiano67;1628490 said:


> TThere is no money to be made at 125? He just said it took him a hour at 17 inches so a normal snow maybe 45 minutes. That is well over 125.00 per hour and if that isnt good enough then I guess good luck to you on getting more. Also that lot would be at best 800 lbs of bulk salt so a hundred bucks per time puts you at over 200 a ton. Many days I bet it wouldnt take 500 lbs. That to me is fair pricing. And I did say the walks were extra.


This is Illinois.

At 17" and one hour is pretty rare. Most of the time with that much snow you get drifting that could equate to 30' drift with 17" of snow.

We had 9" during this last storm so I'm guessing the OP was in the Springfield region during this event. What we noticed with this event was the lack of drifting due to the heavy wet snow along with the lack of wind.

And yes, wear and tear on equipment is a must. And, what if he had a couple of sidewalk guys doing a real job on those sidewalks during a 17" storm with 30" drifts.

We do lots 1/10 of the size for way more than that per square foot. The key is to not over service and not under service the property to maintain a good relationship with the customer and to do a good enough job to where a slip and fall won't occur and you loose your shirt on a claim.

..........


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## Wilnip (Oct 4, 2011)

You guys will argue over anything. A simple "what would you charge" post and someone has to start their crap.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

One hour at 17 inches, really? 

This is a bank and they don't want salt, no 0 tolerance really?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Hit submit to early

At 125, u might as well plow for the free suckers they pass out.

Who will be held responsible for slip and fall at the bank? my guess is you as the contractor. 

myself personally I would walk away unless they committed to doing the right thing at a fair price.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

If you can explain to me how 125 plus in an hour with a plow truck isn't fair then please enlighten me. Around here 125 for a payloader is pushing it. That is why these threads don't work because everyone is in a different market. I guess I was bored and decided to jump in and answer. My bad.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Italiano67;1628592 said:


> If you can explain to me how 125 plus in an hour with a plow truck isn't fair then please enlighten me. Around here 125 for a payloader is pushing it. That is why these threads don't work because everyone is in a different market. I guess I was bored and decided to jump in and answer. My bad.


Because, there are more variables to this last storm than the OP is divulging.

Doubt he had 17 inches. There were some initial reports south of us that were saying those numbers, but official totals when down to 13" + or -.

About 4-6 inches of that snow melted off before it was plowed. We had nine inches and the first 3 was melting off by mid-day until the snow picked up in intensity.

There was no drifting. Even for a larger storm, it was easy to deal with compared to some of the blizzards we have received in the past with less snow.

Those sidewalks need to be dealt with using labor, not equipment. He needs to consider that in a bid.

One hour on a lot like that with 17" of snow is a fluke.

If you have only 1 truck, then what is the OP going to do about a back-up? He also needs to take that into consideration to make sure the lot is serviced properly.

If the an Operator only has 1 truck and no employees, then 125 bucks might be worth it. But if you've got a couple of employees, insurance, taxes, etc... then 125 bucks a push won't cut it.

Again, this is also Illinois, we average about 3-4 pushes a season unlike some parts of the country that average way more than that.

..............


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Looking at the pix and the few cars in it and being a community bank .I bet it not very busy,you could bang it out in half hr. for a during the day run through.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

I would take 20 of those for 125 a push. Sidewalks not included.


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## TKLAWN (Jan 20, 2008)

Italiano67;1628684 said:


> I would take 20 of those for 125 a push. Sidewalks not included.


Me too! I have a hard time believing it would only take an hour to do this place properly though.


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm with WG, but I'm also in Boston. I wouldnt consider doing that place for a nickel under $250. In fact I would probably be at $350 here in town plus another $125 for magic. Thats with walks.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

6k for the season would get you laughed off the lot in the OP's area. Maybe in Lancaster, NY you'd get that...but getting 5 or 6 times the amount of snow per season might be why:waving:

White, my area averages quite a bit more than 3-4 plowables...but if the OP is 20min or more south of me your probably close... 

I don't know of 1 bank in my area that isn't 0 tolerance(walks & lot)...it seems they all take A LOT of salt and plow anything over an inch. I'll say that you need to figure out your costs in the job, then see what YOU need to add to that to become rich...besides, its a bank, you know they got money.


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

snocrete;1631303 said:


> Just guessing the OP is from a central / south central region of IL(they got hit the hardest on that storm)...his cost of living is probably 50% of what yours is in the Boston area. So for example, if he gets 200-250 and your getting 250-350 for the same lot, he's actually doing better than you. So to answer your question before you even post your google maps...yes, I WOULD believe you. From what I've heard, Its expensive being a masshole.
> 
> 6k for the season would get you laughed off the lot in the OP's area. Maybe in Lancaster, NY you'd get that...but getting 5 or 6 times the amount of snow per season might be why:waving:
> 
> ...


Cost of rent or mortgage may be less, but equipment, fuel clothing and groceries are pretty much the same through out the country.

That being said, geographic are still has much to do with it, but I think it has more to do with the number of snow managers in the area rather than operating costs.

Besides, I KNOW you want to see my google maps snocrete...


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

ducaticorse;1631307 said:


> Cost of rent or mortgage may be less, but equipment, fuel clothing and groceries are pretty much the same through out the country.
> 
> That being said, geographic are still has much to do with it, but I think it has more to do with the number of snow managers in the area rather than operating costs.
> 
> Besides, I KNOW you want to see my google maps snocrete...


I still think your operating costs will be much higher than the OP's...because of where your each located

And of course we'd like to see your google maps:waving:

Edit: Good thing you caught my post & quoted it before the mods decided to edit it, lol


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

snocrete;1631680 said:


> I still think your operating costs will be much higher than the OP's...because of where your each located
> 
> And of course we'd like to see your google maps:waving:
> 
> Edit: Good thing you caught my post & quoted it before the mods decided to edit it, lol


It's gettin pretty thick in here with these ghost deletes....

I would like to compare costs, I think that would be a good way to see exactly how different it is. What would you compare specifically?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Yea I got proofed again too!


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

snocrete;1631303 said:


> White, my area averages quite a bit more than 3-4 plowables...but if the OP is 20min or more south of me your probably close...
> .


From the OP's statement on how much snow they got, I'm taking a wild guess and saying that he is in the Springfield area.

And I don't know what your talking about Crete, old-timers and myself have always said that you should average about 3-4 a season.

When I first got into this biz as a driver for someone else, I always could expect 3-4 on an average winter.

....


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## labbej92 (Dec 1, 2012)

The one problem I find with this site is everybody forgets to consider the region they are plowung . Here in Maine people start giving lots away and it kills it for the competitive ones. That's lot is all of 200 250 a push and sidewalks are extra 40 to 60 and removal would be extra .a season like this last one would be a lot of removal based on the amount of grass and shrubs it doesn't leave much room for snow. UnfortunTley everybody that has a plow up here does it for nothing And would take that like for 100 a push or worse do 150 a storm change 20 for walks and lose their ass on removal but the guy who said 6000 a year would be close if it only included winter not mulching or mowing


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## labbej92 (Dec 1, 2012)

Edit usually yearly includes that here


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

ducaticorse;1631728 said:


> It's gettin pretty thick in here with these ghost deletes....
> 
> I would like to compare costs, I think that would be a good way to see exactly how different it is. What would you compare specifically?


Between you and the OP? Yes, I would also......real estate(this is one that I would imagine is at least 3 to 4 times the cost?? Boston compared to central/south central IL), ins costs, and fuel. Those are the first ones that come to mind.

Edit: Just did a quick search, and fuel seemed to be very similar(which surprised me)....real estate appeared to be 2-3 times higher. Maybe you and the OP can compare costs for us all to see....I'd be interested to know where the real differences are.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

White Gardens;1631948 said:


> From the OP's statement on how much snow they got, I'm taking a wild guess and saying that he is in the Springfield area.
> 
> And I don't know what your talking about Crete, old-timers and myself have always said that you should average about 3-4 a season.
> 
> ...


My average plowings over the last 10yrs is higher....that's fact based on records. You guys seem to get a few less events than us on avg though..


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

snocrete;1632127 said:


> Between you and the OP? Yes, I would also......real estate(this is one that I would imagine is at least 3 to 4 times the cost?? Boston compared to central/south central IL), ins costs, and fuel. Those are the first ones that come to mind.
> 
> Edit: Just did a quick search, and fuel seemed to be very similar(which surprised me)....real estate appeared to be 2-3 times higher. Maybe you and the OP can compare costs for us all to see....I'd be interested to know where the real differences are.


Real Estate, undoubtedly higher. But you mentioned fuel being roughly the same, which is pretty much true anywhere in the country except for Cali. Same with groceries, clothing. equipment pricing etc. One thing I did notice worth mentioning I think is that in TN, there was an add up at the truck stop quoting 8 drive tires installed for 2600. Same truck center in PA was 2800 for the same offer.

I just drove a truck up from Southern Alabama last weekend and made several stops along the way back to Boston, and was in FLA the weekend before that. I think the only noticeable differences are as you mentioned, what you pay for storage and housing. I would also think that insurance rates vary as well.

I'd also like to point out that all my accounts (24) are all within three miles of each other and my yard, with two of the largest accounts being next door to each other. So I am able to produce much more efficiently than most, drastically reducing my overhead.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

snocrete;1632130 said:


> My average plowings over the last 10yrs is higher....that's fact based on records. You guys seem to get a few less events than us on avg though..


Part of it too is that I feel it's based on residential accounts with a 2" trigger.

Now, you could probably argue with commercial accounts that you would see almost double the number of pushes due to the lower trigger on most commercial places.

.........


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

ducaticorse;1632172 said:


> Real Estate, undoubtedly higher. But you mentioned fuel being roughly the same, which is pretty much true anywhere in the country except for Cali. Same with groceries, clothing. equipment pricing etc. One thing I did notice worth mentioning I think is that in TN, there was an add up at the truck stop quoting 8 drive tires installed for 2600. Same truck center in PA was 2800 for the same offer.
> 
> I just drove a truck up from Southern Alabama last weekend and made several stops along the way back to Boston, and was in FLA the weekend before that. I think the only noticeable differences are as you mentioned, what you pay for storage and housing. I would also think that insurance rates vary as well.
> 
> I'd also like to point out that all my accounts (24) are all within three miles of each other and my yard, with two of the largest accounts being next door to each other. So I am able to produce much more efficiently than most, drastically reducing my overhead.


The fact your accounts are on such a tight route is not valid when comparing general costs of operation in each area...but that is VERY nice for you!

Its all relative I guess, but in the end you must charge more to get the same results as the OP.

It seems there have been threads here touching on ins rates in your area?.??...and iirc, they were substantially higher than most of the country?



White Gardens;1632190 said:


> Part of it too is that I feel it's based on residential accounts with a 2" trigger.
> 
> Now, you could probably argue with commercial accounts that you would see almost double the number of pushes due to the lower trigger on most commercial places.
> 
> .........


 I don't see much difference in # of pushes between resi & commercial..."most" of my accounts (resi & comm) are based on 2in triggers....but you are correct, trigger depth would effect how many pushes a particular account would avg.

Regardless, just going off how many times we get a "2 inch or more snow storm" isn't necessarily what determines how many "pushes" we average.


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## c50bart (Feb 27, 2013)

Good afternoon guys. I see this thread died in 2009 but I have a question for anyone willing to school me a bit. My buddy runs a landscaping business and asked me to plow with him this season since we got slammed a few times here in NY. I'd like to ask how do I price out a parking lot? Based on spots or overall size? I run a Ford Excursion lifted 35" tires with a custom Western mount for the MVP 8.5. 

I was thinking a fair price is either $150 per hour or $300 per push up to 6" and $100 per inch above 6". I'm looking into a Hitch mount salter to assist after pushes during accumulation. Any input on salt application pricing would be appreciated. He has around 8 parking lots and 2 are mall lots he would be plowing with me. Any input is appreciated....Thumbs Up


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