# Small but tough city lot



## AccuCon (Jan 31, 2013)

So I'm looking to see what you guys think of this one. I almost think its going to be a complete PITA since there is like no place to stack snow.

I guess the last guy pretty much stopped showing up. He was charging $100 a push with salt (crazy in my opinion)

The lot is about 17,000 SqFt (approx .4 acres)

It is a Inn/Hotel so it will require 24/7 service plus it has a restaurant and bar.

Here is what I'm thinking so far:

1-3" $125
4-6" $200
7-12" $325

Salting at $100 per application

I'm not including any walkways though I do have walkway salt (spot salting at $35)










Thoughts? I almost want to price this one high and so what if I get it. Thing is if they like the price and it works out there is a couple other lots in the same area that would be interested (why I'm quoting this one).

So thoughts guys? Should I go higher...Can I put in a clause to terminate service if it just sucks ...lol

Also any removal (probably going to need it) will be a separate contract and is stated such in my main contract.

Thanks in advance, this site and the members are awesome Thumbs Up


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Myself $100 per visit with 1'' trigger is good money here in a 6'' snow fall might have 3-4 visits + After salting it day after be another visit cleaning up slush 
Salting seems about right could be little more


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

AccuCon;1848082 said:


> So I'm looking to see what you guys think of this one. I almost think its going to be a complete PITA since there is like no place to stack snow.
> 
> I guess the last guy pretty much stopped showing up. He was charging $100 a push with salt (crazy in my opinion)
> 
> ...


MY thoughts ? ...........................fair on plowing , but mark that material up...
oh . and what is the price for 3.5'' AND 6.5'' AND over 12'' ?


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## AccuCon (Jan 31, 2013)

Citytow;1848113 said:


> MY thoughts ? ...........................fair on plowing , but mark that material up...
> oh . and what is the price for 3.5'' AND 6.5'' AND over 12'' ?


3.5 is within the 3" and 6.5 is in the 4-6" I have never really had an issue

Snowfall over the 12" price given will be calculated on adding the next closest accumulation amount for that event reaching the total accumulation. (Example a 18" storm would not exceed the cost of a 7-12 and 4-6 combined)

Used this for a couple years now and have not had any complaints when it happens.

My weak spot seems to be pricing salting...


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

AccuCon;1848141 said:


> 3.5 is within the 3" and 6.5 is in the 4-6" I have never really had an issue
> 
> Snowfall over the 12" price given will be calculated on adding the next closest accumulation amount for that event reaching the total accumulation. (Example a 18" storm would not exceed the cost of a 7-12 and 4-6 combined)
> 
> ...


mark that up .65% per ton spread .get er dun


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

AccuCon;1848141 said:


> 3.5 is within the 3" and 6.5 is in the 4-6" I have never really had an issue
> 
> Snowfall over the 12" price given will be calculated on adding the next closest accumulation amount for that event reaching the total accumulation. (Example a 18" storm would not exceed the cost of a 7-12 and 4-6 combined)
> 
> ...


you only got 1-3 & 4-6 covered . there is .9 missing on both increments . if i was a jerkoff land barren , you'd be chewed up n spit out . LOL


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## Citrausa (Aug 15, 2014)

Citytow;1848157 said:


> you only got 1-3 & 4-6 covered . there is .9 missing on both increments . if i was a jerkoff land barren , you'd be chewed up n spit out . LOL


not to sound like a complete savant, so you're saying when I quote a place I should say one inch to 3.9 inches and 4 inches To 6.9 inches?


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## AccuCon (Jan 31, 2013)

Citrausa;1851869 said:


> not to sound like a complete savant, so you're saying when I quote a place I should say one inch to 3.9 inches and 4 inches To 6.9 inches?


Nit picking....Pretty sure 1-3 4-6 would hold up in court...You could get into trouble if you did 1-3 3-6...Client could argue he is only paying the 1-3 for 3.9

Apprently CityTow is assuming no service is getting done at 3.09999-3.999999 in other words complete nonsense


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Citytow;1848157 said:


> you only got 1-3 & 4-6 covered . there is .9 missing on both increments . if i was a jerkoff land barren , you'd be chewed up n spit out . LOL


And again,where were you for the 1st 11 inches of snow fall? Still sitting home watching cartoons?


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

grandview;1852065 said:


> And again,where were you for the 1st 11 inches of snow fall? Still sitting home watching cartoons?


crazy , just plain unexplainable crazyness .


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Citytow;1852083 said:


> crazy , just plain unexplainable crazyness .


Maybe this will help.If your a per plow guy,you start at lot one and plow and charge them ,then move on to the next one. And keep plowing and charging till done. If your seasonal ,you keep plowing till it stops and everything is plowed out. Why should the owner take a hit if you can't do you job? You might end up billing them 3 plows and equal one 12 inch plow,but by showing up and taking care of them shows your just a little be better then the guy who waits.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

I still don't get that pricing structure. If the client wants it pushed every 2 inches, charge x for it and be there as many times as it takes. The only time I can see the staged pricing is if you are plowing at the end of the event.
That said, if they want a close to zero tolerance service, $100 is actually a little high. At zero or close to it, $60 a push seems right to me....push 4 times and make $240.
Just trying to understand it. Not trying to be a know it all.

Edit.
I assume the op isn't plowing at the end?


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## AccuCon (Jan 31, 2013)

Buswell Forest;1852239 said:


> I still don't get that pricing structure. If the client wants it pushed every 2 inches, charge x for it and be there as many times as it takes. The only time I can see the staged pricing is if you are plowing at the end of the event.
> That said, if they want a close to zero tolerance service, $100 is actually a little high. At zero or close to it, $60 a push seems right to me....push 4 times and make $240.
> Just trying to understand it. Not trying to be a know it all.


This would be a per-event price...When bidding per event you figure how many time you would be out there per storm of X inches and charge accordingly. Many customers like this because they don't get a bill for 60x5 visits in one storm. Plus they don't feel like they are losing money when it doesn't snow a lot in a season yet they paid for it.

They know how much it snowed and how much they expect to be charged...

A per-push quote would be different is like you say ever time you come out you charge X

and seasonal is well what you expect for the entire season of snow and times on the lot...

Boss explains it pretty well here:
http://info.bossplow.com/Blog/bid/135727/How-Snow-Removal-Contracts-And-Stock-Portfolios-Are-Alike


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

All I see is headache with per event, and hard feelings with seasonals. But, I have logging to be doing if it doesn't snow, so maybe that's why per push seems best to me.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

AccuCon;1851882 said:


> Nit picking....Pretty sure 1-3 4-6 would hold up in court...You could get into trouble if you did 1-3 3-6...Client could argue he is only paying the 1-3 for 3.9
> 
> Apprently CityTow is assuming no service is getting done at 3.09999-3.999999 in other words complete nonsense


Citytow is right, I had those .9's in my contracts. Just takes away most arguments for inbetween totals. Never know when it will crop up, and it will sometime.


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## AccuCon (Jan 31, 2013)

I see what you are saying but no one would expect to be billed for 3.5" as 4-6 and 4" as 1-3... Like I said if you over lapped the numbers as in 1-3 and 3-6 could be trouble....

What happens if it is 3.95" Hmmmm is it a 4-6.9 or a 1-3.9???


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

If I have this right, per event is really just per push with a different name. It still costs the same, more or less.


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## AccuCon (Jan 31, 2013)

Buswell Forest;1852398 said:


> If I have this right, per event is really just per push with a different name. It still costs the same, more or less.


They are very close...But

"per-push" could be set up for every 1" in a high traffic area So it would be considerably more then per event

They should all be pretty close since it's based on hourly rates and material..

I kind of look at per-event as I quote you a price and its up to me to get it done for that price (regardless of pushes)...

Its much easier on billing and justification, I think....Since its documented how much it snowed and you have a set price for that


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## jerpa (Feb 4, 2014)

I've had an easier time explaining per push rates with a trigger. The maximum number of pushes they pay for is the total depth of precipitation divided by the trigger. In the event of prolonged fast accumulations I may lose out on a push but that results in a lower bill than expected which never seems to bother a customer. 

I also avoid defining whether the overnight 2" snow followed by the 2" clipper at 5PM is two 1-3" events or one 3.1-6" event.


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## AccuCon (Jan 31, 2013)

jerpa;1852811 said:


> I've had an easier time explaining per push rates with a trigger. The maximum number of pushes they pay for is the total depth of precipitation divided by the trigger. In the event of prolonged fast accumulations I may lose out on a push but that results in a lower bill than expected which never seems to bother a customer.
> 
> I also avoid defining whether the overnight 2" snow followed by the 2" clipper at 5PM is two 1-3" events or one 3.1-6" event.


That is why you define Event as a 24hr period starting from first accumulation so it would in fact be the latter if it was say 3am and 5pm since the total snow accumulation was within the 24 hour "event" time frame...

Wording is so important in contracts for snow removal. In the past I have done a lot of big contract work (like 5+ million dollar jobs) in electrical engineering and project management. You need everything covered, if you can think it so can they, so keep thinking it; no matter how crazy it is.

~edit
My customers would prefer the next higher bracket rather then two 1-3 since I give a slight discount as the snow piles up


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## buildinon (Oct 6, 2011)

In lots like this we have had similar problems with it being located in a city setting and no place to stack or place the snow. The solution was to find an area or a few before the season started and block them off. Of course clear it with the owner / manager first, but we have not had a problem so far. We just put up traffic horses over a few spots that can be moved when we need to.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

AccuCon;1852425 said:


> They are very close...But
> 
> "per-push" could be set up for every 1" in a high traffic area So it would be considerably more then per event
> 
> ...


I think the per visit price is easy to keep track Less stress

TV says Storm was 5'' But in this one lot That lot drifted in and it 8'' deep With a per-event price you going push that extra 3'' for free
I use to run per event contracts now its all per visit 
What TV says and what is in the lot never matches The TV never factors in the wind


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

WIPensFan;1852322 said:


> Citytow is right, I had those .9's in my contracts. Just takes away most arguments for inbetween totals. Never know when it will crop up, and it will sometime.


I go 2.1 to 5
5.1 to 8 and so on. Youd be surprised , they'll hammer you.


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