# i am new to snow removal



## duranlandscaping

Hello guys, i have opened Duran Landscaping and Snow removal. i have done alot of studying on pricing, bidding based on inches of snow, or per hour Etc etc. i am in NY state, i was wondering if you could give me some advise for how much i should charge for a 1500-2000 square foot lot? including salting and even side walk, any kind of critique i will gladly accept! thank you


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## tpendagast

duranlandscaping said:


> Hello guys, i have opened Duran Landscaping and Snow removal. i have done alot of studying on pricing, bidding based on inches of snow, or per hour Etc etc. i am in NY state, i was wondering if you could give me some advise for how much i should charge for a 1500-2000 square foot lot? including salting and even side walk, any kind of critique i will gladly accept! thank you


Ill give you five bucks if you change it to Duran Duran Landscaping & Snow Removal... One duran for each aspect!

Always have a "minimum"
Dont charge peanuts for a tiny lot just because a bigger one is $60.
It takes the same time to drive out to it and frequently they can take longer because there is more maneuvering (depending on your service vehicle)

I'd say $45 is a safe minimum... your area may vary.


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## JustJeff

Don't bother. It's not even worth the troubles. Just get a 9-5 and call it a day.


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## duranlandscaping

tpendagast said:


> Ill give you five bucks if you change it to Duran Duran Landscaping & Snow Removal... One duran for each aspect!
> 
> Always have a "minimum"
> Dont charge peanuts for a tiny lot just because a bigger one is $60.
> It takes the same time to drive out to it and frequently they can take longer because there is more maneuvering (depending on your service vehicle)
> 
> I'd say $45 is a safe minimum... your area may vary.


haha i love the idea, so your saying on a lot with that square foot i should charge about 45 minimum? what about for salting? i have never spread salt before and do not want to low ball myself. again, i am VERY VERY new to pricing my own work. thank you so much ! and a 9-5 job is not something i want to do forever because that is what im doing now!


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## ktfbgb

duranlandscaping said:


> haha i love the idea, so your saying on a lot with that square foot i should charge about 45 minimum? what about for salting? i have never spread salt before and do not want to low ball myself. again, i am VERY VERY new to pricing my own work. thank you so much ! and a 9-5 job is not something i want to do forever because that is what im doing now!


You need to charge enough to cover Overhead like General Liability Insurance, Commercial Auto Insurance, Vehicle maintenance, fuel, etc. plus your pay, and a profit for your company. No one here can tell you how much you need to charge to cover that. Only you can answer that. We can help you with things like how long it should take to do said lot, how much salt to apply, places to stack snow, etc.


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## tpendagast

duranlandscaping said:


> haha i love the idea, so your saying on a lot with that square foot i should charge about 45 minimum? what about for salting? i have never spread salt before and do not want to low ball myself. again, i am VERY VERY new to pricing my own work. thank you so much ! and a 9-5 job is not something i want to do forever because that is what im doing now!


So
If you figure 900 pounds an acre 
That's 90 pounds for 4000 square feet 
45 pounds for 2000 square

What's your cost for salt?
80 per ton?
Thats like 2 dollars of salt

If you figures a ton per acre 
Then that's 100 pounds for 2000 square 
That's 4 dollars cost

In my experience it's hard to apply lightly to smaller lots so your ratio is heavier on smaller lots

Either way your material cost isn't the big part here

Your still in the "minimum" range

Local prices can vary a lot 
But if your price per acre was 200 bucks 
You're not going to charge 5...
So IMO
45 for the tiny lot as well


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## duranlandscaping

thank you guys, all this insight is really helpful, i'm starting to get the idea now!


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## JMHConstruction

What spreader?

A v box will cost more up front, but the salt savings of buying bulk easily makes up for it. However, if you don't have a place to store bulk, or a way to load it, you may want to look at a tailgate spreader.

Because bagged salt is much more expensive, your prices will have to either go up, or your profit comes down. I don't recommend the latter. If you do charge more though, you have to make sure your service is spot on (well, you'll want to do that regardless)


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## FredG

tpendagast said:


> So
> If you figure 900 pounds an acre
> That's 90 pounds for 4000 square feet
> 45 pounds for 2000 square
> 
> What's your cost for salt?
> 80 per ton?
> Thats like 2 dollars of salt
> 
> If you figures a ton per acre
> Then that's 100 pounds for 2000 square
> That's 4 dollars cost
> 
> In my experience it's hard to apply lightly to smaller lots so your ratio is heavier on smaller lots
> 
> Either way your material cost isn't the big part here
> 
> Your still in the "minimum" range
> 
> Local prices can vary a lot
> But if your price per acre was 200 bucks
> You're not going to charge 5...
> So IMO
> 45 for the tiny lot as well


750 pounds is more a accurate per acre, I always bid 800 pounds. 900 pounds is overkill, If your profitable at 900 pounds it's all good.


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## tpendagast

FredG said:


> 750 pounds is more a accurate per acre, I always bid 800 pounds. 900 pounds is overkill, If your profitable at 900 pounds it's all good.


That's why I said if

Anyway you do the math
When you get down to 2000 square feet it's a tiny number
Even at a ton an acre, it's still too low for the Math to work at 2000 square,
Which is where the minimum comes in
That was my point.
There's no way to get a "perfect" number for a small lot
You'll spend more time loading the hopper and transporting to the site, than you will treating it.


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## tpendagast

JMHConstruction said:


> What spreader?
> 
> A v box will cost more up front, but the salt savings of buying bulk easily makes up for it. However, if you don't have a place to store bulk, or a way to load it, you may want to look at a tailgate spreader.
> 
> Because bagged salt is much more expensive, your prices will have to either go up, or your profit comes down. I don't recommend the latter. If you do charge more though, you have to make sure your service is spot on (well, you'll want to do that regardless)


If he's doing little properties the tailgate thing may work, simply because there's room in the little property to do it that way.
Start getting into anything that needs volume and you won't be competitive.

An acre will chew up 15-20 bags 
The tailgate holds 8 ish depending on model.
Doing that big of an area sucks, and it's inefficient , I've done that.

But running around doing say, gas/station convenience store parking lots with a pick up and tailgate sander? 
Yup that's viable.


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## FredG

tpendagast said:


> That's why I said if
> 
> Anyway you do the math
> When you get down to 2000 square feet it's a tiny number
> Even at a ton an acre, it's still too low for the Math to work at 2000 square,
> Which is where the minimum comes in
> That was my point.
> There's no way to get a "perfect" number for a small lot
> You'll spend more time loading the hopper and transporting to the site, than you will treating it.


Lol do the math, 2000 SQ FT I'm hoping a 5 gallon pail and a rubber glove and your done. In a minimal application rate for being that small I would be more concerned in my time to be profitable. Not the 5 gallon pail of salt your going to use. If you know how to throw lol.


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## tpendagast

FredG said:


> Lol do the math, 2000 SQ FT I'm hoping a 5 gallon pail and a rubber glove and your done. In a minimal application rate for being that small I would be more concerned in my time to be profitable. Not the 5 gallon pail of salt your going to use. If you know how to throw lol.


Right
That's what I'm saying 
It was like $2 worth of salt
The associated time, profit and overhead recovery for an acre application, no matter what your numbers are ; divided down into 2000 sq ft , might bring you to five dollars at most

So there's no point in "estimating" a lot that small, it falls in the "minimum charge" category.


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## FredG

I guess this is where old school comes to play, I don't have no minimal on commercial. The price is what it is, I don't need no scientific number for small commercial material or labor, overhead etc. I do these by the eye and submit my bid.

Yes if for some reason I'm doing drives ( residential) yes there is a minimal for one reason. I'm not going to plow out a 800 sq ft drive or one short pass for $20.00 like some around me.

Op what region are you in in NY? If you were in my region in NY a small 2000 Sq ft gas station etc would run the PO $65.00 and if you want to be easy on the PO $75.00 to spread. In my region this is what the market can stand. If your going to do sidewalk $1.00 4 to 5' walk cleared and spread.

Good Luck


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## tpendagast

FredG said:


> I guess this is where old school comes to play, I don't have no minimal on commercial. The price is what it is, I don't need no scientific number for small commercial material or labor, overhead etc. I do these by the eye and submit my bid.
> 
> Yes if for some reason I'm doing drives ( residential) yes there is a minimal for one reason. I'm not going to plow out a 800 sq ft drive or one short pass for $20.00 like some around me.
> 
> Op what region are you in in NY? If you were in my region in NY a small 2000 Sq ft gas station etc would run the PO $65.00 and if you want to be easy on the PO $75.00 to spread. In my region this is what the market can stand. If your going to do sidewalk $1.00 4 to 5' walk cleared and spread.
> 
> Good Luck


That sounds like a minimum yes?

That's the point the OP has no where to start
He can't just eye ball it, he doesn't know pricing


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

ktfbgb said:


> You need to charge enough to cover Overhead like General Liability Insurance, Commercial Auto Insurance, Vehicle maintenance, fuel, etc. plus your pay, and a profit for your company. No one here can tell you how much you need to charge to cover that. Only you can answer that. We can help you with things like how long it should take to do said lot, how much salt to apply, places to stack snow, etc.


Ive been looking for a formula like this for myself. How do i calculate such a thing? I know my expenses and such.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> Ive been looking for a formula like this for myself. How do i calculate such a thing? I know my expenses and such.


i tried dividing my total insurance cost into 10 ( average amount of times we go out per year) and that number was added as a " daily expense" per time we went out. Not sure of what other ways there are but id like to hear from you guys on whats the best way to figure out these numbers.


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## FredG

tpendagast said:


> That sounds like a minimum yes?
> 
> That's the point the OP has no where to start
> He can't just eye ball it, he doesn't know pricing


No he can't eye ball. He has to get some experience knowing his production rate and make sure he is profitable. IMO plowing a acre with a few obstacles in a truck is okay unless it's wide open and you just wind rowing and the amount of snow your plowing. Some may disagree but okay with me.


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## tpendagast

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> Ive been looking for a formula like this for myself. How do i calculate such a thing? I know my expenses and such.


I have an excel spreadsheet for it 
But as I illustrated above, it gives you ridiculous numbers when you're talking small lots


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

tpendagast said:


> I have an excel spreadsheet for it
> But as I illustrated above, it gives you ridiculous numbers when you're talking small lots


so on this sheet, what sqft lots would you recommend using it on? Care to share it via pm if you think it could help me?


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## ktfbgb

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> i tried dividing my total insurance cost into 10 ( average amount of times we go out per year) and that number was added as a " daily expense" per time we went out. Not sure of what other ways there are but id like to hear from you guys on whats the best way to figure out these numbers.


You need to figure out how long you are out for an average event. Then multiply by 10 events. That's total hours. Then add up all your overhead costs. Divide the two number and that gives you your hourly cost of doing business.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

ktfbgb said:


> You need to figure out how long you are out for an average event. Then multiply by 10 events. That's total hours. Then add up all your overhead costs. Divide the two number and that gives you your hourly cost of doing business.


so lets throw some numbers out there.

So usually we are out about 9 hours per storm times 10 storms is 90 total hours.

Our overhead is low and we only have insurances, salt cost, and gas. ( didnt count maintenance not sure how to do that)

those add up to about $2200 per "season". So now your saying to take the 2200 and divide it by 90 total hours??


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

that equals 24 and some change so we will say 25. so your saying before i make a penny i have to make atleast 24$ per hour x 90 hours a season to break even. Everything beyond that would be " profit ". is that correct?


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## FredG

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> that equals 24 and some change so we will say 25. so your saying before i make a penny i have to make atleast 24$ per hour x 90 hours a season to break even. Everything beyond that would be " profit ". is that correct?


I tink so lol. The answer is yes.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

FredG said:


> I tink so lol. The answer is yes.


thank you for the clarification on that. Thats good to know!


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## FredG

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> thank you for the clarification on that. Thats good to know!


That's a sole performance.


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## JMHConstruction

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> so lets throw some numbers out there.
> 
> So usually we are out about 9 hours per storm times 10 storms is 90 total hours.
> 
> Our overhead is low and we only have insurances, salt cost, and gas. ( didnt count maintenance not sure how to do that)
> 
> those add up to about $2200 per "season". So now your saying to take the 2200 and divide it by 90 total hours??


You should, and will be over $2200 per season. My guess is you're forgetting YOUR salary.

I don't remember where you live, so I'll go off a 5 month average. You need to cover all your costs for 5 months. Say (for the sake of easy numbers) you want to make $60k a year. There are 12 months, so so 60,000/12=5,000. So each month you need to make $5k to pay for your per seasons. 5,000x5=25,000. Unless you're paying yourself hourly, you want to consider this overhead.

Salt costs and other direct job relating items will be considered a job cost. Don't add those in yet.

Everything like salaries, maintenance, depreciation, office supplies, computer programs (like quickbooks, weather apps, etc.), cell phone, truck payment, plow payment, those kinds of things are overhead. Direct job costs will be added in later.

Find your actual overhead per season, add a little extra (because I'm sure you'll forget something), then find your hourly cost to cover your overhead. Lets say it's $30k per season. 30/5=6,000/90=67 (rounding up. So, you need to make $67/hour just to cover the overhead.

Now, lets figure out job costs on this pretend lot of 1 acre. Assuming you only have one person (you), we wont count labor (you can, but for now lets keep things simple (KISS)). This is where you add your direct job costs. Lets say that you have $100 in salt and sidewalk deicer costs, and that's it. You want to make money on any thing you so, so lets mark up that by 10%. 100+10%=110. (see down below and find out the difference between markup and margin)

Pretend to plow fake lot will take you an hour, then salt takes you 15 minutes, and sidewalks take you 30 minutes, and drive time was 15 minutes. You have 2 hours for this one site. 67x2=134, that's your overhead cost. Now add the marked up job costs, 134+110=244.

So now you have your costs, but your company needs to make a profit (this is NOT what you take home, this goes back in the business bank account). This is when the margins come into play (NOT MARKUP). Say you want to make 20% profit. To charge the correct profit margin this is your math, *Cost/(1-PROFIT%)*. So, 244/(1-20%)=305.

$305 is the final price for our fake bid.

This fairly basic way of doing it, so make sure you figure out the correct overhead and job costs. Go through every bill you have that is business related. Some costs will be year round that are only partly covered through the season, others need to be fully covered during the season. For example, your yearly salary is only partly covered during 5 months, but added snow removal insurance will need to be fully covered in the 5 months.

Hope that made since. I'm sure that looks a little overwhelming, being such a long post, but it will become second nature. Let me know if you have any questions. Hope that helped both you and the OP.

This is also why people have minimums, it prevents you from wasting you time on jobs that are impossible to bid, or would amount to so little it would be pointless to do the job. I have a 1 hour minimum, for example my minimum for our fake company would be $67 (I'd probably round that up to $70). If you get quite a few small jobs, you can make your minimum a half hour. Really, it's your company, you can do what you want.


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## JMHConstruction

@duranlandscaping what kind of lots will you be doing? What kind of plow? Tell us a little about what your plan is


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## snowman55

And that is why so few people can actually build a business snow plowing and make money.

You made an error JMH.
He has 90 hours in 5 months not in 1 so he needs to do 67x5=$335 per hour.

No way a guy is going to cover $30k with 1 truck and 10 events.

I I like you method.


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## JMHConstruction

snowman55 said:


> And that is why so few people can actually build a business snow plowing and make money.
> 
> You made an error JMH.
> He has 90 hours in 5 months not in 1 so he needs to do 67x5=$335 per hour.
> 
> No way a guy is going to cover $30k with 1 truck and 10 events.
> 
> I I like you method.


You are correct. Thank you for catching that.Thumbs Up

I agree, $30k is a stretch, any maybe I should have gone a little lower for winter work. With 10 storms, he may only be needing to cover 3 months, which would lower the overhead for the season. He may still be doing other work during November and March. Those were just an idea of fake numbers.

You could pay/charge extra overhead through your busy season, and have less to make up during winter. Personally, I make 100% of my overhead (unless we get a rainier than normal year, and miss more days than I anticipate) during the spring, summer, and fall months, and use the winter income to pad the business bank account, and also give myself bonuses for working storms. We don't get enough snow, especially lately, to pay all the bills working only snow.

Now if you need to though, you just have to make it up with numbers, and efficiency. If you need 2 trucks to make what you need, that's what you have to do.

This is just how I do things. Everyone can do their own thing, with their own company. I would even suggest hiring an accountant to figure out what you need, and where.

Sorry about these long winded posts, they seem to get pretty long when I'm on my computer, and can almost type as fast as I can think. Not sure if that's a positive for my typing ability, or a negative for my thinking ability:laugh:


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## snowman55

With the nationals and Chuck in a trucks driving down lawn care and landscape rates I need to cover more and more % overhead with winter work.

I have invested in another industry and am so excited to provide something people are excited to buy.

Show me 1 person who is happy to pay a snow removal invoice or for that matter a lawn mowing invoice.


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## JMHConstruction

snowman55 said:


> Show me 1 person who is happy to pay a snow removal invoice or for that matter a lawn mowing invoice.


The ones who don't have a slip and fall suit

All seriousness, I know what you mean. It's much easier finding people happy to pay for my full time business (deck building) than snow removal. It's also easier to slide in a few hundred bucks to cover overhead when invoices are larger. I can see how it would be tough with lawns.


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## snowman55

JMHConstruction said:


> The ones who don't have a slip and fall suit
> 
> All seriousness, I know what you mean. It's much easier finding people happy to pay for my full time business (deck building) than snow removal. It's also easier to slide in a few hundred bucks to cover overhead when invoices are larger. I can see how it would be tough with lawns.


No Slip and fall. they aren't happy.its the expected outcome for the expense of snow removal
But if you have a slip and fall then they are mad.

Again no one is happy to have to pay us it's an expense they have to pay.g

Or more like your gas bill or your electric bill it's a must have expense and I'm sure no one here likes paying it. And everyone is always looking to lower it.

25 years this industry's been good to me. But it has been a very hard way to make a living.
My advice to anyone starting out would be to do something else. I can not think of a less appreciated or valued industry. the


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## tpendagast

snowman55 said:


> No Slip and fall. they aren't happy.its the expected outcome for the expense of snow removal
> But if you have a slip and fall then they are mad.
> 
> Again no one is happy to have to pay us it's an expense they have to pay.g
> 
> Or more like your gas bill or your electric bill it's a must have expense and I'm sure no one here likes paying it. And everyone is always looking to lower it.
> 
> 25 years this industry's been good to me. But it has been a very hard way to make a living.
> My advice to anyone starting out would be to do something else. I can not think of a less appreciated or valued industry. the


I say that all the time

Dudes buy mowers or plow trucks because they want toys

Man go buy a boat or a side by side if you want toys 
You'll be happier


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## FredG

snowman55 said:


> With the nationals and Chuck in a trucks driving down lawn care and landscape rates I need to cover more and more % overhead with winter work.
> 
> I have invested in another industry and am so excited to provide something people are excited to buy.
> 
> Show me 1 person who is happy to pay a snow removal invoice or for that matter a lawn mowing invoice.


LOL


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

JMHConstruction said:


> You should, and will be over $2200 per season. My guess is you're forgetting YOUR salary.
> 
> I don't remember where you live, so I'll go off a 5 month average. You need to cover all your costs for 5 months. Say (for the sake of easy numbers) you want to make $60k a year. There are 12 months, so so 60,000/12=5,000. So each month you need to make $5k to pay for your per seasons. 5,000x5=25,000. Unless you're paying yourself hourly, you want to consider this overhead.
> 
> Salt costs and other direct job relating items will be considered a job cost. Don't add those in yet.
> 
> Everything like salaries, maintenance, depreciation, office supplies, computer programs (like quickbooks, weather apps, etc.), cell phone, truck payment, plow payment, those kinds of things are overhead. Direct job costs will be added in later.
> 
> Find your actual overhead per season, add a little extra (because I'm sure you'll forget something), then find your hourly cost to cover your overhead. Lets say it's $30k per season. 30/5=6,000/90=67 (rounding up. So, you need to make $67/hour just to cover the overhead.
> 
> Now, lets figure out job costs on this pretend lot of 1 acre. Assuming you only have one person (you), we wont count labor (you can, but for now lets keep things simple (KISS)). This is where you add your direct job costs. Lets say that you have $100 in salt and sidewalk deicer costs, and that's it. You want to make money on any thing you so, so lets mark up that by 10%. 100+10%=110. (see down below and find out the difference between markup and margin)
> 
> Pretend to plow fake lot will take you an hour, then salt takes you 15 minutes, and sidewalks take you 30 minutes, and drive time was 15 minutes. You have 2 hours for this one site. 67x2=134, that's your overhead cost. Now add the marked up job costs, 134+110=244.
> 
> So now you have your costs, but your company needs to make a profit (this is NOT what you take home, this goes back in the business bank account). This is when the margins come into play (NOT MARKUP). Say you want to make 20% profit. To charge the correct profit margin this is your math, *Cost/(1-PROFIT%)*. So, 244/(1-20%)=305.
> 
> $305 is the final price for our fake bid.
> 
> This fairly basic way of doing it, so make sure you figure out the correct overhead and job costs. Go through every bill you have that is business related. Some costs will be year round that are only partly covered through the season, others need to be fully covered during the season. For example, your yearly salary is only partly covered during 5 months, but added snow removal insurance will need to be fully covered in the 5 months.
> 
> Hope that made since. I'm sure that looks a little overwhelming, being such a long post, but it will become second nature. Let me know if you have any questions. Hope that helped both you and the OP.
> 
> This is also why people have minimums, it prevents you from wasting you time on jobs that are impossible to bid, or would amount to so little it would be pointless to do the job. I have a 1 hour minimum, for example my minimum for our fake company would be $67 (I'd probably round that up to $70). If you get quite a few small jobs, you can make your minimum a half hour. Really, it's your company, you can do what you want.


wow, didnt expect you to type this out lol this really helps. ive read it about 10 times lol. Im going to take this and try to calculate everything later today. thanks!!


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

snowman55 said:


> No Slip and fall. they aren't happy.its the expected outcome for the expense of snow removal
> But if you have a slip and fall then they are mad.
> 
> Again no one is happy to have to pay us it's an expense they have to pay.g
> 
> Or more like your gas bill or your electric bill it's a must have expense and I'm sure no one here likes paying it. And everyone is always looking to lower it.
> 
> 25 years this industry's been good to me. But it has been a very hard way to make a living.
> My advice to anyone starting out would be to do something else. I can not think of a less appreciated or valued industry. the


I came from the car industry where they wanted you to have 100k+ worth of tools and pay you 500 a week. plus you had to keep up with licenses, training, ect.. not worth it at all. I started in this industry because of low overhead cost for startup. I was initially going to open my own garage but the initial overhead to me was scary. ( building, lights, heat, garbage, licenses, insurance, ect.. ) I dont mind this industry and i love being outside instead of in a dark garage burning and cutting myself. The car industry was the same way. People would freak out when you told them what something would cost. The same also goes for what you said about cheap nobodies doing it cheaper. Regardless of what field ( besides medical hopefully) there is always going to be some idiot that is way cheaper than you and you always wonder wtf?? We have a huge tree company around here and he almost works for free hes so cheap but it doesnt effect the other tree companies getting work. I think people do still pay for quality work and i think there is plenty of money to be made out there doing this you just have to play your cards right. i have a friend whos a millionaire in this industry. all his plow trucks are 300$ trucks ready to fall apart or catch on fire and if they break he really doesnt care he just rigs it up again.


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## FredG

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> wow, didnt expect you to type this out lol this really helps. ive read it about 10 times lol. Im going to take this and try to calculate everything later today. thanks!!


Let us know if your clear later after you play with numbers lol.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

FredG said:


> Let us know if your clear later after you play with numbers lol.


will do !!!!


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## FredG

[QUOTE="Xxwhiteneonxx, post: i have a friend whos a millionaire in this industry. all his plow trucks are 300$ trucks ready to fall apart or catch on fire and if they break he really doesnt care he just rigs it up again.[/QUOTE]

Besides the millionaire part your buddy sounds like me. LMAO


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## JMHConstruction

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> wow, didnt expect you to type this out lol this really helps. ive read it about 10 times lol. Im going to take this and try to calculate everything later today. thanks!!


Just remember, I made a mistake that snowman caught, so take those next few posts into consideration too. It's also not anything set in stone. You will have to figure out what works for your business. It could be that you pay yourself a very low salary, then pay yourself hourly also. Whatever you do, just make sure it's figured in correctly with your bid.

Location has a lot to do with it. Where I live I can get double what others can. It's all about what the market will bare. You may have to sit and figure out how to make your numbers match your areas prices, while still making a profit.


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## FredG

JMHConstruction said:


> Just remember, I made a mistake that snowman caught, so take those next few posts into consideration too. It's also not anything set in stone. You will have to figure out what works for your business. It could be that you pay yourself a very low salary, then pay yourself hourly also. Whatever you do, just make sure it's figured in correctly with your bid.
> 
> Location has a lot to do with it. Where I live I can get double what others can. It's all about what the market will bare. You may have to sit and figure out how to make your numbers match your areas prices, while still making a profit.


He's been doing it a little while and been surviving otherwise he would be back to pulling wrenches. He's doing them eyeball jobs nice little jobs, You know the ones you just throw a competitive number at. Technically I think he is worried about not making all he can.

I know one job he has would be $30.00 more per push here. Pretty sure the contractors around me would agree, It's good he wants it all figured out but without him being under somebody's wing locally it's tough. Getting his feet a little wetter will help him out. He's got the work I just hope there's some meat left.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

JMHConstruction said:


> Just remember, I made a mistake that snowman caught, so take those next few posts into consideration too. It's also not anything set in stone. You will have to figure out what works for your business. It could be that you pay yourself a very low salary, then pay yourself hourly also. Whatever you do, just make sure it's figured in correctly with your bid.
> 
> Location has a lot to do with it. Where I live I can get double what others can. It's all about what the market will bare. You may have to sit and figure out how to make your numbers match your areas prices, while still making a profit.


im going to calculate it now and see what happens! Around here i think i just have the lowball customers. i have a medical billing company with small sidewalks i told them 75 per 2" because i didnt want them and they were happy with that bid. I have a long johns in which they wont pay even close to that to plow their lot.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

FredG said:


> He's been doing it a little while and been surviving otherwise he would be back to pulling wrenches. He's doing them eyeball jobs nice little jobs, You know the ones you just throw a competitive number at. Technically I think he is worried about not making all he can.
> 
> I know one job he has would be $30.00 more per push here. Pretty sure the contractors around me would agree, It's good he wants it all figured out but without him being under somebody's wing locally it's tough. Getting his feet a little wetter will help him out. He's got the work I just hope there's some meat left.


this is my 2nd season and ive grown alot. gross numbers speaking, from season 1 to season 2 ( which isnt over yet) ive made a 900% increase in sales so far. So i am growing, just slowly. I have very minimal bills and overhead cost right now and im hoping to keep it that way. But, with us trying to purchase a house, im trying to make sure i have my bidding processes down and such. I need all the money i can get towards a house so i want to make sure im not leaving money on the table.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

okay so im starting to go over this so let me see if im getting this correct. these arnt necessarily correct numbers just hypothetical numbers to understand it. 

So i live in pa. our mowing season is usually april-october ( so 7 months roughly). So Lets say my actual overhead ( insurance workers comp maintenance, ect..) is 300 per month.. This doesnt include My " salary". 

So, we are going to say my total overhead cost over the mowing season would be 2100$

Our snow season i consider november- march ( usually only snows december- February). So im going to consider the total overhead cost to be 5 months at the 300 per month which would be 1500$ per snow season.

Now, lets say i want to make 40k. i would divide that into the 11 months we usually work? which if thats the case, would be $3,636 per month.

Now, To know how much i have to bring in to make that amount, we have to add the 300 per month to the $3,636 and get $3,936. 


Now the other figure i guess here would be snow in general since it doesnt snow everyday. We usually go out about 10 times per season.

So, i have to take the 1500$ overhead and my salary of $3,636x 5 months add them together and then divide them by total days out and get $1968 per storm to reach that salary/ overhead. Am i right so far?


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## GelsonM

Hello Guys im new here hope to find lot of answer and lot inside to business in here being doing snow removal for 4 seasons by shoveling and blowing .last week just bouth a truck friend moving out of states so i got a f250 5.4 with the minute 2 mount plow and inwant to hear PAid 3500 111000 miles no rust solid frames no leaks i have 10 properties 4 whick can used plow but inwas ising blowers since i didnt have a trck .. so hope to hear back anything


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## JMHConstruction

GelsonM said:


> Hello Guys im new here hope to find lot of answer and lot inside to business in here being doing snow removal for 4 seasons by shoveling and blowing .last week just bouth a truck friend moving out of states so i got a f250 5.4 with the minute 2 mount plow and inwant to hear PAid 3500 111000 miles no rust solid frames no leaks i have 10 properties 4 whick can used plow but inwas ising blowers since i didnt have a trck .. so hope to hear back anything
> 
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Welcome.:waving:
You will have much better luck starting you own thread. And perhaps doing some proof reading


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## agurdo17

JMHConstruction said:


> You are correct. Thank you for catching that.Thumbs Up
> 
> I agree, $30k is a stretch, any maybe I should have gone a little lower for winter work. With 10 storms, he may only be needing to cover 3 months, which would lower the overhead for the season. He may still be doing other work during November and March. Those were just an idea of fake numbers.
> 
> You could pay/charge extra overhead through your busy season, and have less to make up during winter. Personally, I make 100% of my overhead (unless we get a rainier than normal year, and miss more days than I anticipate) during the spring, summer, and fall months, and use the winter income to pad the business bank account, and also give myself bonuses for working storms. We don't get enough snow, especially lately, to pay all the bills working only snow.
> 
> Now if you need to though, you just have to make it up with numbers, and efficiency. If you need 2 trucks to make what you need, that's what you have to do.
> 
> This is just how I do things. Everyone can do their own thing, with their own company. I would even suggest hiring an accountant to figure out what you need, and where.
> 
> Sorry about these long winded posts, they seem to get pretty long when I'm on my computer, and can almost type as fast as I can think. Not sure if that's a positive for my typing ability, or a negative for my thinking ability:laugh:


Agree. But at some point you have to start with 1 driveway.....


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