# Got a call from USM today



## Rat_Power_78 (Sep 16, 2008)

Sure didnt expect that. They are either desperate or else they are calling everybody they can find. I am WAY too small to take on a Walmart, not that I would work for them if I had the equipment to do something that big. Wierd thing is, they called my cell. I cant figure out how they would have got my number, considering I am pretty much a one man show in a small town and I dont advertise.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Rat_Power_78;1075991 said:


> Sure didnt expect that. They are either desperate or else they are calling everybody they can find. I am WAY too small to take on a Walmart, not that I would work for them if I had the equipment to do something that big. Wierd thing is, they called my cell. I cant figure out how they would have got my number, considering I am pretty much a one man show in a small town and I dont advertise.


Who know's, I spent the last couple days doing estimates for them (just to see) and come to find out the places were already awarded. We are second on the list if the other company falls through. The other company isn't going to fall through. Make your own judgements about them, there are a lot of hoops you have to jump through to work for them. In all honesty, you admit your a smaller company...probably not worth a second thought.


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## Rat_Power_78 (Sep 16, 2008)

At this point, I have no where near the amount of equipment needed to service that size lot. I am essentially a one man operation for now. The hoops they make you jump through are understandable, its all the slow payment and non-payment stories that I would be worried about.


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

Rat_Power_78;1076050 said:


> At this point, I have no where near the amount of equipment needed to service that size lot. I am essentially a one man operation for now. The hoops they make you jump through are understandable, its all the slow payment and non-payment stories that I would be worried about.


Counter those stories with the ones who say that if you're a fair businessperson, have your ducks in a row and can manage to do a few pieces of paperwork and keep them up to date, and determine that if you bid YOUR price and what YOU need to charge to make a buck, that you too can succeed, even with a company like USM or a big bad 'national'.

Why couldn't you hire a person and buy a truck or lease or rent a loader to take on a place like a Wal-Mart or Target? If its just not where you want to go, then good for you for the quick and forthright turndown!


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

hoskm01;1076154 said:


> Counter those stories with the ones who say that if you're a fair businessperson, have your ducks in a row and can manage to do a few pieces of paperwork and keep them up to date, and determine that if you bid YOUR price and what YOU need to charge to make a buck, that you too can succeed, even with a company like USM or a big bad 'national'.
> 
> Why couldn't you hire a person and buy a truck or lease or rent a loader to take on a place like a Wal-Mart or Target? If its just not where you want to go, then good for you for the quick and forthright turndown!


I applaud him for admitting he's not comfortable with the size of his operation to even entertain this type of contract. It took me years to be able to handle a place like this. There are so many things to get lined up in order to do a lot this size. I like how some guys think its soooo easy to go buy this, that and everything. Our local Target has at least 2 loaders, and at least a couple trucks on it on any given storm for about 2-3 hours and our newest Walmart isa Super Walmart over 500,000 sqft...its 11+acres.


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

Brian Young;1076167 said:


> I applaud him for admitting he's not comfortable with the size of his operation to even entertain this type of contract. It took me years to be able to handle a place like this. There are so many things to get lined up in order to do a lot this size. I like how some guys think its soooo easy to go buy this, that and everything. Our local Target has at least 2 loaders, and at least a couple trucks on it on any given storm for about 2-3 hours and our newest Walmart isa Super Walmart over 500,000 sqft...its 11+acres.


I never said it was easy. But, its also not brain surgery! Nor is USM the end of our industry.


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## concrete (Jan 25, 2006)

we have been doing 3 walmarts for years usm called 3 weeks ago to offer us the job, all they needed me to do was call and leave my email adderss to get the prosess started. Have called with that email adderss and left it on voice mail at least 10 times. we have not got any thing from them. funny thing is not so sure any of any one else in this area can do the job. I am done calling them


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

concrete;1076175 said:


> we have been doing 3 walmarts for years usm called 3 weeks ago to offer us the job, all they needed me to do was call and leave my email adderss to get the prosess started. Have called with that email adderss and left it on voice mail at least 10 times. we have not got any thing from them. funny thing is not so sure any of any one else in this area can do the job. I am done calling them


My money is on you hearing from them 6 hours before your first storm of the season, begging and pleading.

They bid out by geographic region, and seem to have tunnel vision for the current bid, so maybe your area is just not up yet.


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

You think they're being a pita now... wait until you need to get paid!


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## pcslawn (Jan 30, 2010)

*Just say No*

Just Say No to USM why let a middle man make the money when its us out there at all hours of the night busting our @$$$ and let them take all our money


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

pcslawn;1076712 said:


> Just Say No to USM why let a middle man make the money when its us out there at all hours of the night busting our @$$$ and let them take all our money


Its not the fact they are a middle man (sometimes thats a benefit to a smaller biz getting started with work on larger lots)...........its the fact they throw BS contracts out there, and expect everyone but them to assume responsibility for the lots they contract out. To hell with USM & any company that promotes contracts like that:waving:

P.S. This post will probably get deleted....like lots of others of mine.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

hoskm01;1076168 said:


> I never said it was easy. But, its also not brain surgery! Nor is USM the end of our industry.


It's not that hard to complete the work, as a smaller company. It is really tuff as a small company to carry the A/R for 60-90 days and still buy gas and salt and pay workers.


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## bighornjd (Oct 23, 2009)

Superior L & L;1077619 said:


> It's not that hard to complete the work, as a smaller company. It is really tuff as a small company to carry the A/R for 60-90 days and still buy gas and salt and pay workers.


...especially if you can't get paid at all... or have to pay the increased insurance premiums or court costs and settlement as the result of a slip and fall accident since the contract you signed basically said no one else is responsible except you. F'em.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

All my experience with nationals has been good. Slower pay, but good. The problem is people don't follow reporting rules. Then it will slow pay. On another note I would never sign a contract like usm


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## cseutah (Nov 24, 2009)

I went against everyone last year saying they were a pain to get money out of and didnt want to dissapoint my Wal-Marts that i have had for the last 10 years. I agreed to their less than average rates on stores and hoped for a not so big season. I jumped through their hoops turned in my paperwork not once, twice or three times but 14 times, 2 of them certified. I have all my store sign offs and everything. It is now the end of September and they still owe me over $20,000.00 left on my contracts. I started to see checks about the end of July. And to top that off they had the audacity to call and see if I would be covering the Wal-Marts again, even the store managers have been calling afraid I will not take care of them, promising they will help to be sure that i'm paid. I would think that I would be foolish to try it again, I mean I paid all my bills last winter, fuel, labor, subs, everything and not one penny was sent to me until the end of July.


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## hickslawns (Dec 18, 2004)

> concrete we have been doing 3 walmarts for years usm called 3 weeks ago to offer us the job, all they needed me to do was call and leave my email adderss to get the prosess started. Have called with that email adderss and left it on voice mail at least 10 times. we have not got any thing from them. funny thing is not so sure any of any one else in this area can do the job. I am done calling them


This mirrors my situation. I won't call them and never received their email after they had my address. I will wait until there is snow on the ground and the store manager calls me after getting approval from his district manager. USM can push around guys in the larger towns, but around here they can suck hind teat.



> cseutah I went against everyone last year saying they were a pain to get money out of and didnt want to dissapoint my Wal-Marts that i have had for the last 10 years. I agreed to their less than average rates on stores and hoped for a not so big season. I jumped through their hoops turned in my paperwork not once, twice or three times but 14 times, 2 of them certified. I have all my store sign offs and everything. It is now the end of September and they still owe me over $20,000.00 left on my contracts. I started to see checks about the end of July. And to top that off they had the audacity to call and see if I would be covering the Wal-Marts again, even the store managers have been calling afraid I will not take care of them, promising they will help to be sure that i'm paid. I would think that I would be foolish to try it again, I mean I paid all my bills last winter, fuel, labor, subs, everything and not one penny was sent to me until the end of July.


Thanks for posting a realistic expectation for everyone to see. Now this thread will suddenly disappear.


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## Scottscape (Nov 27, 2005)

cseutah;1077732 said:


> I went against everyone last year saying they were a pain to get money out of and didnt want to dissapoint my Wal-Marts that i have had for the last 10 years. I agreed to their less than average rates on stores and hoped for a not so big season. I jumped through their hoops turned in my paperwork not once, twice or three times but 14 times, 2 of them certified. I have all my store sign offs and everything. It is now the end of September and they still owe me over $20,000.00 left on my contracts. I started to see checks about the end of July. And to top that off they had the audacity to call and see if I would be covering the Wal-Marts again, even the store managers have been calling afraid I will not take care of them, promising they will help to be sure that i'm paid. I would think that I would be foolish to try it again, I mean I paid all my bills last winter, fuel, labor, subs, everything and not one penny was sent to me until the end of July.


someone needs to make this a bulletin..


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## TurfSolutionsMN (Dec 12, 2007)

Hey Luke,

USM has been calling me non stop wanting me to bid that Walmart too. I don't know if your a member of SIMA, but they could of got your number from them. Damel will really be pissed if they loose another account. I would hate to be the guys who get it this year. He made my life hell last year when I took one from him.


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## charlefoxtrtot (Oct 26, 2003)

*Usm*

U United
to
S Shift
the
M Middle man


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

charlefoxtrtot;1078087 said:


> U United
> to
> S Shift
> the
> M Middle man


What????...Do you mean SHAFT


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## Rat_Power_78 (Sep 16, 2008)

TurfSolutionsMN;1078038 said:


> Hey Luke,
> 
> USM has been calling me non stop wanting me to bid that Walmart too. I don't know if your a member of SIMA, but they could of got your number from them. Damel will really be pissed if they loose another account. I would hate to be the guys who get it this year. He made my life hell last year when I took one from him.


Matt,

I am not a member of SIMA, and I dont advertise anywhere. I did bid on a few smaller lots he had last year though, so if I get them I'm sure he wont be too happy. What did he do to you? Is he still in charge of maintenence at Target like he used to be? Have you got that one again this year?


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

Rat_Power_78;1078139 said:


> Matt,
> 
> I am not a member of SIMA, and I dont advertise anywhere. I did bid on a few smaller lots he had last year though, so if I get them I'm sure he wont be too happy. What did he do to you? Is he still in charge of maintenence at Target like he used to be? Have you got that one again this year?


He sounds like a true sore loser. You guys should stick it to him so he can cry in his cereal.


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## grf_1000 (Sep 14, 2009)

USM called me today. April sent me the "Contractor Package - Exterior Services" after reading 2 pages i am fit to be tied. i better have my lawyer look at it lol. i really dont like the wording of some parts. how after you work for them 6months and make over 10k they keep an extra 4% for themselfs. basiclly like giving them a kick back for giving me the work. 
the best part is, hell i dont believe USM has any accounts within 75 miles of me haha


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## 5280TOM (Sep 27, 2010)

You should be worried they have at least the worst payment record in the biz. Here in Colorado they claim to have the Wal Marts and they don't they went to Super Prime contractor who is subbing them out accordingly and thank God. The rates that USM was trying to sell were horrible-we need to band together to stop them from destroying our industry and that goes for turf management too. USM Bad BAD


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## dumbyankee (Jul 30, 2010)

Here we go again with this stupid USM company. It seems like we put one thread to bed and some one starts another. For those who didnt catch it the last time, The USM rep would watch the thread and look at your profile after you made a statement on here. Not that I care, after what I have read on here and did a little research of my own, I would rather have my equipment repoed than to work for them. Like most of you I dont work for free.


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## concrete (Jan 25, 2006)

got that email, It was sent on the 24th , now here is a good one, the bid is due on the 22nd.
going to hold off on filling out the papers, I feel that there is only one other plow company in our area that could handle these accounts,guess what we work together . we have talked about this and we come to this .we also have other accounts that pay right away(like walmart allways did) we know of other companys that have been asking one of us or the other for years to do there work, we go to all of them with a lower price than what they ar paying now , (take all of them away) AND GET PAYED FOR IT.


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## dayexco (Oct 30, 2003)

dumbyankee;1078737 said:


> Here we go again with this stupid USM company. It seems like we put one thread to bed and some one starts another. For those who didnt catch it the last time, The USM rep would watch the thread and look at your profile after you made a statement on here. Not that I care, after what I have read on here and did a little research of my own, I would rather have my equipment repoed than to work for them. Like most of you I dont work for free.


if it bothers you, might be worth your time if you see the letters USM in the title of the thread...to not even read it if it bothers you that much?


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## dayexco (Oct 30, 2003)

i haven't got a call from USM today....but it's funny, of the 4 of us contractor's capable of handling the local target store...the other three this last wk received RFP's......hmmm...they must not have liked my proposal from last september? my competitors that received the requests....all wonder, hey, don't you want the lot anymore? what's going on? when i told them of the exclusions to the contract before i'd sign it...they all said, geesus, that company outta their mind? i'm confident USM won't use us, but makes me "if nothing else" elated that one of those three will make some GOOD money, all said they'd refuse to sign contract as is...would only sign were certain exclusions met on the contract.


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## dayexco (Oct 30, 2003)

i DID get an email from USM today....telling me my horse will not be able to race this year..gee, i want to cry...i have to laugh though..there are 4 of us machinery wise in town capable of doing the property, and all 4 are avoiding it like the plague, in fact, i hear they don't have a contractor signed up for walmart yet i think prices just tripled to whoever signs that one. i can see christmas eve...a 8" snow...an 80's era GM 1/2 ton truck, 25 yr old western plow..and a panic going on in pennsylvania. oh well, i wish the new guys all the luck in the world!! truly i do, i hope they line their pockets with money from the nationals


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## dumbyankee (Jul 30, 2010)

Dayexco: it doesn't bother me, in fact it helped me make a better decision as to work for them or not. USM called the other day to set up a contract on a drug store parking lot. I walked away telling them I was maxed out. From what I have read from all of you who have worked for USM in the past, they don't seem to be a company I would even consider working for. Out of all the posts there were only one or two that defended USM. I have no desire to jump through hoops to get a pay check. Bottom line I don't see how a company in Penn. can make a decision on snow removal in NH or any other area. Like you I choose not to deal with them. I can say I don't feel they will be affecting my business that much.


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## mtstclair (Oct 19, 2005)

Big business is killing america 15 smaller companies would be way better. ussmileyflag


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## gtstang462002 (Dec 23, 2009)

mtstclair;1094735 said:


> Big business is killing america 15 smaller companies would be way better. ussmileyflag


Here is the reality though, most of your "Big businesses" started out as much smaller businesses and found a growth plan that worked. It would appear that USM is going to be forcing themselves to downsize by pissing their employees(and contractors) off to the point where they are not going to be able to provide for their customers.


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## dumbyankee (Jul 30, 2010)

I can say I dont want any thing to do with them after talking to a few of you who have done business with them.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

Their Rep hasn't even kept his word about being on here, to work things out with disgruntled contractors. What a shame, it all just reinforces the sad state that company is in. Multi million dollar company, to afraid to join a public forum and defend its practices, truely pathetic.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

buckwheat_la;1094869 said:


> Their Rep hasn't even kept his word about being on here, to work things out with disgruntled contractors. What a shame, it all just reinforces the sad state that company is in. Multi million dollar company, to afraid to join a public forum and defend its practices, truely pathetic.


Maybe not pathetic, they may be busy bidding, and Trying to get contractors


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

Sorry MJD in advance,( i know you don't want USM called out on this site) but this really needs to be said.



Superior L & L;1094935 said:


> Maybe not pathetic, they may be busy bidding, and Trying to get contractors


depends on how you look at it, last post by the USM rep, July

posted was this

Everyone please be patient I had to remove the post for now. I will be checking in and if anyone would like to contact me please feel free. Oh a BTW it is MR. Fran Taylor.

Fran Taylor
USM 

then if you read, Micheal Donovans personal page, he goes on how he well be back after the "legal department" lets him know where they stand. IMO he went to the legal department, they looked up some of these complaints, and said, "we don't want to pay these, so please don't acknowledge them" i would also point out that he was on plowsite, in September. Yet no posts..... i know i don't have a dog in this fight, but i think USM's actions have spoken for themselves.


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Who's USM?


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## dayexco (Oct 30, 2003)

i just have 3 quick questions....does USM deny....they owe one member of this forum....$22k? another member $4500? that they still owe $31k in unpaid invoices for a walmart store in south dakota by a competitor friend of mine?

btw..i'm the $4500


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## cseutah (Nov 24, 2009)

dayexco;1095159 said:


> i just have 3 quick questions....does USM deny....they owe one member of this forum....$22k? another member $4500? that they still owe $31k in unpaid invoices for a walmart store in south dakota by a competitor friend of mine?
> 
> btw..i'm the $4500


I think there are enough contractors that was left holding the bag at the end of the season. "Not paid what they were promised" If all contractors that were not paid sent an itemized invoice of outstanding balances to their Wal-Mart stores and theatened legal action against Wal-Mart they could probably see some changes in how things are done. Wal-Mart started a department just to assist with the contractors across the nation that have not been paid, because it has been such an issue.


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## gtstang462002 (Dec 23, 2009)

cseutah;1095430 said:


> I think there are enough contractors that was left holding the bag at the end of the season. "Not paid what they were promised" If all contractors that were not paid sent an itemized invoice of outstanding balances to their Wal-Mart stores and theatened legal action against Wal-Mart they could probably see some changes in how things are done. Wal-Mart started a department just to assist with the contractors across the nation that have not been paid, because it has been such an issue.


Sounds like Wal-mart needs to take their contracting in house.


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## motoxguy (Oct 17, 2010)

And the best part of all of this is, is that usm services is number 2 on the top 100 contractor list for being the middle man and sitting in the office while everyone else does the work, and not paying the contractors. I'm sure glad that another contractor i know told us not to sign with them last year when we had the opportunity to work for them on a big box store.


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

dayexco;1095159 said:


> i just have 3 quick questions....does USM deny....they owe one member of this forum....$22k? another member $4500? that they still owe $31k in unpaid invoices for a walmart store in south dakota by a competitor friend of mine?
> 
> btw..i'm the $4500


Well besides posting on plowsite, are you doing anything about it?!


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## dayexco (Oct 30, 2003)

for me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, to fly to pa...hire a pa attorney...meet with their arbitration board...in hopes of getting it. what the other 2 gentlemen do about it, i don't know.


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

kinda makes you wonder if they count on your reasoning dayexco


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## tutianoburgante (Feb 4, 2009)

Dayexco, they owed me a great deal of money. All I did was put liens on the property and within 15 days I got my money! You have to fight for your money because they are fighting to keep your money!


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## hickslawns (Dec 18, 2004)

> Superior L & L
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by buckwheat_la View Post
> Their Rep hasn't even kept his word about being on here, to work things out with disgruntled contractors. What a shame, it all just reinforces the sad state that company is in. Multi million dollar company, to afraid to join a public forum and defend its practices, truely pathetic.
> Maybe not pathetic, they may be busy bidding, and Trying to get contractors


I will not add anymore details to this than I need to. However, I can assure you I am still receiving phone calls to service locations. It is now November 30th. Let's just sum it up with "We couldn't agree to the terms of the contractor agreement". USM refused to alter any wording. Maybe when we get our first snow, they will change their mind. That seems to summarize things well enough about our accounts. My trucks will be busy this winter either way. Backhoe will be allocated to maintain the accounts it needs to and skid loaders will be busy!


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Just did a quick search of Plowsite. I used USM as the keywords and nothing came up.


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## IA snoman (Aug 31, 2003)

White Gardens;1131724 said:


> Just did a quick search of Plowsite. I used USM as the keywords and nothing came up.


I did the same thing. Hmm. why is that?


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## NW Snow Removal (Oct 12, 2007)

IA snoman;1131737 said:


> I did the same thing. Hmm. why is that?


I wonder if this started after the merger between SIMA, and plowsite?


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## dirtybird (Jul 18, 2010)

bighornjd;1077659 said:


> ...especially if you can't get paid at all... or have to pay the increased insurance premiums or court costs and settlement as the result of a slip and fall accident since the contract you signed basically said no one else is responsible except you. F'em.


This is the problem, it does not matter if you make money one year or even three, eventually you will get a multi-million dollar claim (bogus or not) they will hold all of your money and your insurance costs if you even can get it will put you out of business.


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## Sooner (Feb 1, 2008)

I got a call last week about snow for Wal-Mart and Target stores. I said "No Thanks.". The bad thing is, I figure I have about 3 months left to replace my 8 WM sweeping contracts.


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## slave2lawns (Oct 9, 2008)

hey Sooner, I was just wondering how do you like the Sweeping bus. ?


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

Sooner;1132985 said:


> I got a call last week about snow for Wal-Mart and Target stores. I said "No Thanks.". The bad thing is, I figure I have about 3 months left to replace my 8 WM sweeping contracts.


Way to think on your own and decide for yourselfThumbs Up


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

hoskm01;1134266 said:


> Way to think on your own and decide for yourselfThumbs Up


Maybe he did? Maybe they did as they normally do and offered a lowballed price? Maybe he tried to neg and they held steady on that price? They'll get some sucker to do it.........


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

Mick76;1134296 said:


> Maybe he did? Maybe they did as they normally do and offered a lowballed price? Maybe he tried to neg and they held steady on that price? They'll get some sucker to do it.........


Perhaps its a regional thing for them, but I have yet to have THEM offer ME a price. Not saying I win what I give them, but its always been an RFP to me.

The suggestion is that the poster was saying no as soon as he saw USM on the caller ID. What if his site was unique, and no one else would do it, and they took the price that he gave them? Thats good growth.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

hoskm01;1134381 said:


> Perhaps its a regional thing for them, but I have yet to have THEM offer ME a price. Not saying I win what I give them, but its always been an RFP to me.
> 
> The suggestion is that the poster was saying no as soon as he saw USM on the caller ID. What if his site was unique, and no one else would do it, and they took the price that he gave them? Thats good growth.


There's a possibility that could happen, and with any national company. Sometimes it might be a good things for the sub involved.

The problem seems to lie with USM. Even if it's a good opportunity for someone, you still need to be paid.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

I know I won't be plowing any home improvement stores this winter...... That's about all I can say.


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

hoskm01;1134381 said:


> Perhaps its a regional thing for them, but I have yet to have THEM offer ME a price.


I have first hand knowlege that this does happen. They offered me the Wally World in my area for "X" amount. I asked if that price was neg and they said no. The amount that was given barely covers the price of salt and fuel if you truly go by their SOW. I politely declined. Its just not USM, as I've had other nationals do the same. Some I've taken the work, but most I've declined. So when you see me bi$*&^ng about nationals, I (unlike many people on here that only hear from a friend of a freind) have first hand knowlege about their policies and practices.


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

Mick76;1134944 said:


> I have first hand knowlege that this does happen. They offered me the Wally World in my area for "X" amount. I asked if that price was neg and they said no. The amount that was given barely covers the price of salt and fuel if you truly go by their SOW. I politely declined. Its just not USM, as I've had other nationals do the same. Some I've taken the work, but most I've declined. So when you see me bi$*&^ng about nationals, I (unlike many people on here that only hear from a friend of a freind) have first hand knowlege about their policies and practices.


It definitely happens. Stinky way to go about it, especially for contractors.


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## tjlands (Sep 29, 2005)

I am no computer geek but there probably is a parameter that needs more than 3 letters to do a search, just my thoughts. 
Try searching "National"

I also think that there should be an open forum just for us to discuss national companies and the problems they are causing/ or not causing. 
It is obviously the number one topic on here for many people/companies:salute:


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