# Strictly Liquid Ice Management?



## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

Does anyone run just Ice management?

I'm currently in a position where it is not practical to purchase another vehicle to plow with. (I have an '05 xcab/longbed F350 SRW, which IMO is way to long to plow residential and even the small commercial around here).

Is there a demand for strictly a (liquid) ice-management company? I can see selling it to commercial locations by selling on fear of liability suits.

My thoughts were to sell an Anti-icing following up with post storm de-icing (hard packs). 
It looks like a product like Caliber M1000 is what I want to use for anti/de icing. I would have no problem investing in a storage tank, skid sprayer, etc, but will it really work?

Would this be feasible? 
Estimated insurance costs?
Best product to use? m1000?

Lastly, no-one (from what i've seen, researched and asked around for) offers this service, nor are there any local distributors that i've located in a quick search.


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## szorno (Jan 3, 2002)

Deality,
I guess it could work. We do both plowing and liquid ice prevention. We do have a couple customers for spray only. 
Your truck would take a 200 gallon tank easily. So, it now it becomes a marketing and service question. A tank system will likely cost $3500 to $4500. then a yard tank will be between $600 and $1200 depending on the size.  There is another thread here on pricing. Check it out carefully. Lots of math to make sure you price right. then, try talking to other snow contractors and kind of feel them out for interest. Everyone has heard about liquids- but some truth and some baloney. Look for a supplier near you, and get with him personally. Even go see him. Learn what is available in your area, and then read around here to discern the truth from the baloney. Then take the truth to a couple of snow contractors. See if they would be interested in subbing out to you. then do the same for a property managment company. Kind of a test-market before you buy equipment. the really nice thing about liquids is that you can schedule your spray time up to 48 hours before the storm. Many more productive hours for spraying than for plowing. One truck can do a lot of coverage in 2 long evenings. You know, it just might work...
 :bluebounc


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## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

Hey check with your local DOT garage and see what they use and ask them about there system and how they use it and bring some food works wonders for the guys in the shop...


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

Thanks for the reply szorno, i've done a lot of seaching/reading here in the last two days. I found a bunch of info about setups. However not much about finding a nozzle to spray with for the thick slurrys.

I have a 60gal tank I use for another aspect of my landscaping business which I would like to use to get started in my trials. I suspect it is a little underpowered witha 12v/2.1GPM (0-60PSI). It has a 25' hose/wand currently, swapping over to a boom wouldn't be a problem if i can figure out the nozzle dilemna.

Does Cal. M1000 seem like the best candidate for the job?

After I figure out what product i want to use I will locate a distributor and work up a price structure. I've done this before with a liquid-application for my landscaping business (which isn't turf/shrub care). 

Tomorrow morning I will ask my business associates in our weekly networking meeting if they would be interested in a service such as Anti-icing for their commercial properties.


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

fernalddude said:


> Hey check with your local DOT garage and see what they use and ask them about there system and how they use it and bring some food works wonders for the guys in the shop...


 I stopped into my local highway dept today and asked them if they were familiar with any systems. They said they were going to do some testing this winter with treating their salt, but nothing as far as straight liquid applications.


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

Anyone have a phone number for a distributor around CT/NY for M1000 ? I cannot get a hold of anyone to give me any information on liquid de-icers. I've left messages @ 5 different places, no one returns phone calls.

Lesco has some liquid, but @ $4.25/gal(55gal) or $6.74/gal(5gal) its a little out of the "cost efficient" bracket.

edit, Just got off the Phone with ELS Products in NY, they have their own brew, seems pretty similar to m1000, price... 5gal = $17.95/gal 55gal = 14.95/gal !


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## RacerBren (Nov 6, 2005)

call 1-845-485-4200, Taconic can tell you where to get it in Conn.


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

I'll try them again later, I called earlier this mornin, no answer there either.


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## Mowerpan (Jan 31, 2005)

Why don't you just get mostly commerical and some residential. Although not the best setup my friends dad who does mostly commerical uses his crewcab shortbed chevy for some driveways and it works just fine.


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## foggyjr5 (Nov 15, 2005)

*Bulk*

I can get liquid ice melt that goes to -85F and i can get it for $9.50 a gal in 55 gallon drums


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

i plan on doing just that Mowerpan, however there is very little "fudge" room when its $15/gal not including delivery.

edit, just realized you were talking about plowing. I don't want to beat the crap out of my shiny new truck with a plow  plus being out for 12-48hrs at a time isn't exactly appealing to me, i'd rather go out at my leisure 0-2 days before the storm gets here and spray down all the accounts and let one of the 2,000 other people who snow plow around here do the hard work


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## RacerBren (Nov 6, 2005)

We get caliber up here in Albany for 2.55 a gallon, Magic is cheaper. They both work awesome.


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

RacerBren said:


> We get caliber up here in Albany for 2.55 a gallon, Magic is cheaper. They both work awesome.


RacerBen, can you get me a contact number? I go through albany quite a bit when i head up there skiing/snowmobiling, that wouldn't be too bad if thats the closest i can find it.


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## szorno (Jan 3, 2002)

Deality,
I agree with racerbren. either Caliber or Magic. Caliber is a little thinner, and does not have the suspended solids. Magic sticks to hills and inclines better, but has a mild odor. You also need a larger bore spray head for Magic, as it will clog the smaller bore ones. Those are the two best products, just pick it from there by availability. Remember, your dealer can make or break you.


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## RacerBren (Nov 6, 2005)

BSD give me a call at 518 461-9958. I think I can help you out.


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## RacerBren (Nov 6, 2005)

Has anyone or does anyone use a lesco spray rig for appling caliber. Any luck with it? Magic will be too thick for the diaphram pump. We have the centrifical pump on our rig.


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## Surfside (Oct 10, 2005)

I'm about to buy 25 gal Argi system for 200. It should work for this season and to test the whole liquid deicing thing. Just started plowing and dont see spending the same amount for a spreader when a sprayer can be used all year.payup Can any one tell me where i can find in so. Maine the liquid and/or a larger system.


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

Ben, I will give you call on Monday, I am out of the office right now, just swung in to check some email/posts.

I have a 60 gal/2.1gpm setup I purchased for another aspect of the business(latex paint), however it is under powered for the slurrys + paint. That was about $450, I will be returning it. I have been in talks witha company down in GA that makes tank systems.

So far we have a decent system put together, let me know what you think...
Alum Skid Frame
100gal poly tank (can be upgraded later)
5gpm roller pump/60psi
bypass (agitation)
150' of 1/2" w/ gun
Mounted on a Cox Reel system (200' cap w/ 1/2"line)
every piece is pressurized quick-disconnect too

price is around $1150 so far.

I plan on fabbing my own boom to hang off the back or hang off the side to drive parrallel to a sidewalk if I can't get on the sidewalk with the truck. There will be a manifold so that I can switch from gun to boom by closing a valve.


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## dcf (Dec 19, 2005)

Call 860 355-4523 or 860 488-7484 for the local Magic dealer.


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

dcf, do you know of anyone with Caliber? The reason i'm avoiding Magic is because of the brown color, i'd like my applications to be less visible and have less brown-tracking.

Just got off the phone with Bren, he was very helpful. Looks like Magic the color/tracking isn't as much of an issue. 2 steps forward. one step backwards.


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

just an update. I went up to Scotts' Landscaping in New milford and talked to them for a little bit, scott was very helpful and i got a little batch of magic to experiment with here at my house. We'll see how it goes


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## BSDeality (Dec 5, 2005)

I'm just adding a link here to my experiment thread I started
My Liquid Experiment Blog w/ Pics


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## RBellamy (Jan 5, 2006)

FYI. The Muni of Anchorage has been using liquid magnesium chloride in their water trucks for intersections for about 10 years. I believe the dilution is 30% solution to water. They (MOA) might respond to a EMAIL request for info. I supervise roads and groundS on a Army Post and we are beginning a similar program here. Delivery in Anchorage for Mag. Chlor. (30% concentrate) is $1.97/gal per 1000 gal delivered. It should be way less lower 48. We plan on applying with a self propelled sweeper w/ rear mounted plastic water tank (250 gal) trough a spray br system. Note: mag chlor appears to do a chemical reaction with dirt and bonds to auto paint so that one has to use a strong cleaner ("super clean") to remove grit like substance off paint finish. Although very corrosive, it is not rusting out cars as I noticed salt does on E.Coast. Only draw back is having to scrub auto finish to get off.


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