# Different contractor, same crap



## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

So I sub and have a couple lots of my own. The contractor I had been doing work for lost quite a bit of work which sucks because they always paid on time and the lots were perfect. I still do a Dr's office for them. 

So I signed up with another contractor for some extra cash and the bulk of my income. I've showed up, answered the phone whenever, and embraced the suck.

He's into me for quite a bit of money and I'm getting a queasy feeling so I text him about when payday will be. His response *crickets.* I know exactly what this means. It means nagging which I hate.

There's another chance of snow this weekend. Is it unprofessional to demand a date and/or check before I'll even leave the driveway? I've been hosed more than I care to say thinking it was a lesson to be learned. I think he's running thin on trucks and drivers so I have leverage that way. This seems to be an outbreak of contractors who don't want to pay, but this isn't volunteer work.

"Hey we're going to head out at 2 am."
"So about that pay question you seem to be avoiding, we need to discuss that first before I burn more fuel/wear and tear on my stuff..."

Sounds good? Bulk of my work for 17 years has been subcontracting, and the last three years I've wrote off as money lost. I'm trying to prevent that by being more proactive while I still have leverage. 

Or not and i quit, and hand it over to my attorney.

I'm not going in guns blazing, sending some hired goons to his shop, but da**it I want my money!!


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Cant blame ya.. get a check before u work


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

When you talked to the new guy about subbing, did you guys discuss pay?
Was it agreed upon?

I see where your coming from, but if nothing was agreed upon before hire, sounds like your just leveraging him in a bad way.
But then again as a sub myself I know where your coming from.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

This sounds familiar... 

Only you are the one that knows how far you wish to be strung along before you have to stop and put your foot down or cut your losses and speak to your attorney.

Just out of curiosity how far out are we talking? Is it 30, 60, 90 days?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Need more info as diesel said.



OneBadDodge06 said:


> Is it unprofessional to demand a date and/or check before I'll even leave the driveway?


It's unprofessional to not pay subs as agreed upon.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Company I sub for is a bit behind on their checks. First time in I think the 6 years I've worked for them. I called them yesterday (wanted to get it taken care of before the storm Friday) and they explained the situation. I don't want to talk about it on the internet, but money is coming. 

They were extremely upfront with me, gave me a small amount owed, and told me when I can come up to the office to recieve the rest.

Maybe go talk to him in person. Go with your gut as you talk with him. If he seems full of crap, demand what's owed.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

I've sent my time sheets in tonight for work performed Tuesday also with "did you get my text about when I can expect a check?"

As of right now, no response.

16 years has taught me this has red flags all over it. The only way I'll do any more plowing is to write up a very specific contract as an amendment to pay schedule. Until that is signed, the accounts will not be serviced by me. Its the only leverage I have before the end of the season and I'll sit at home before working for nothing.



Mark Oomkes said:


> Need more info as diesel said.
> 
> It's unprofessional to not pay subs as agreed upon.


I agree with you 100% Mark. It is unprofessional to not pay a sub or at least reply.

Currently sitting at more than 30 days but not 60. I wouldn't be overly nervous if there was back and forth communication but there's zilch.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

I've been subbing for just over 20 years, I don't think you're being unreasonable in any of your thoughts. Like you said, a little communication goes a long way. A few moments for them to explain to you what's going on financially costs them nothing........


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> I've sent my time sheets in tonight for work performed Tuesday also with "did you get my text about when I can expect a check?"
> 
> As of right now, no response.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you need to part ways with this guy as soon as your paid up....I would continue to "annoy him" on when your getting paid...he may pay you quicker just to get you to leave him alone


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Im with JMH, you need to quit texting and go talk face to face. Not confrontational but make him explain the situation. Good luck, hope you get the money you worked for.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jomama45 said:


> I've been subbing for just over 20 years, I don't think you're being unreasonable in any of your thoughts. Like you said, a little communication goes a long way. A few moments for them to explain to you what's going on financially costs them nothing........


I thought you were non-union???


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I thought you were non-union???


I am, and I punch out to use the restroom as proof......


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

dieselss said:


> When you talked to the new guy about subbing, did you guys discuss pay?
> Was it agreed upon?
> 
> I see where your coming from, but if nothing was agreed upon before hire, sounds like your just leveraging him in a bad way.
> But then again as a sub myself I know where your coming from.


Do you think the prime contractor thought he was doing it for free?
I thought he could pay him whenever? Maybe just wait til the season was over?

I mean this goes both ways.
The guy knows he's got to pay for it.

Thing is if you don't got a bunch of Walmart's etc, they take a while to pay themselves.

Most companies aren't doing the work for the pay it should be done for anymore due to "tidy bowl" bidding 
So there's no left over residual money 
It's all hand to mouth

So no one has your money until they get paid. 
Then the check has to clear 
Etc etc

So if it's been over 30 days and you're in mid season (ie they're not waiting for the first check of the season to arrive) 
Maybe get antsy

Also most of those contracts get paid by the month 
So if you've had one of those months with five or 6 pushes in a single month ... it may take 2 months for you to get fully paid as a sub

It's a cash flow thing.

It would work exactly the same way if it was your contract and you're not a sub... 
the contract doesn't care you've got 200 hours pushing this month , it pays the same rate every month.

This is one of the reasons dip holes shouldn't be chewing down the bids "just to get them" 
If you can't get the contracts good, don't push snow... there's clearly enough companies to cover the need.

"But I want to do it too!"
I guess I never understood that


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> Currently sitting at more than 30 days but not 60. I wouldn't be overly nervous if there was back and forth communication but there's zilch.


IMO 
30 days is normal 
45 days should be a cut off 
60 days take action

Like I said above ... many contracts pay monthly 
So you might not get fully caught up from a busy month until 60-90 days out.
But you should get some payment to keep the ball rolling.

The pinch usually comes when a contractor had gotten too greedy by collecting too many "monthlies" and then they actually get a bunch of snow on a short period of time.

Ideally you balance x number of monthlies, y number of per pushes and z number of per inch accounts to get a healthy balance and if a contract comes out for bid but the job doesn't fit your portfolio... let it pass.

But more and more as the nationals take over the monthly thing catches on and there's too many monthlies out there. 
Because the nationals take the cream off the top and drive the prices down, there's no actual meat left on the bones for an abi e average month.
Sometimes you're lucky if you can even average out for a year.
That's why monthlies that go out to bid every single year really should be avoided.
You need 3-5 to make sure the average is in your favor. 
Unfortunately as a sub, there's no way of knowing a new contractor you've hooked up with has a healthy balance of contracts.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Remember that your window to lien is only 90 days...

Don’t drag it out to long if you don’t think you will get paid.

I agree texts are easy to ignore. You need to get confrontational. 

Sounds like he does not have the capital to keep his good subs paid while he waits for his money... I would recommend that you get paid and loose his number. People that avoid paying you once, will always avoid paying you.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Remember that your window to lien is only 90 days...
> 
> Don't drag it out to long if you don't think you will get paid.
> 
> ...


This is true

I don't really know anyone who wouldn't pick up another sub (unless it's Sanford n son with 7 foot suburbanite plows)
It's not like you can't call another contractor and say "sub available" and get another gig quick , at least in my experience ..


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

tpendagast said:


> Do you think the prime contractor thought he was doing it for free?
> I thought he could pay him whenever? Maybe just wait til the season was over?
> 
> I mean this goes both ways.
> ...


I see nothing in your post, that's a valid excuse for a general to not pay a sub in 30 days or less.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

plow4beer said:


> I see nothing in your post, that's a valid excuse for a general to not pay a sub in 30 days or less.


Unless there's an agreement stating so.

I have a few customers that consistently pay 45-60..but 30 days is pretty standard. If I have a sub work on those 45-60 payout jobs, the sub still gets paid in 30.

generals need to have working capitol to handle paying bills on jobs they haven't been paid in full for yet.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Remember that your window to lien is only 90 days...
> 
> Don't drag it out to long if you don't think you will get paid.
> 
> ...


Lien might not be an option. OP, check your state's lien laws. They may not allow liens for maintenance, like they do for capital improvements. 
Either way, if he doesn't respond, you may want to contact the property owners, or property managers before it's too late. If they don't owe him money, there's nothing they can do. If they owe him money, that could be used for leverage.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I don't get it...I can't get plowing done without my loader subs. I don't pay them, they don't show up, I don't have happy customers for long and then no customers. 

It's no different than employees. It's not the sub's fault you don't have the capital to pay them for the work they performed. 

BTW, I have 3 or 4 per push accounts. Zero per inch, a handful of seasonals and the rest are seasonals without salt apps. Has nothing to do with what type of contracts one has and everything to do with managing cash flow and not overextending one's self. 

Last year we were front loaded on snow...tons of labor, fuel and material before we started getting cash in from some of our seasonals. In fact, we were upside down signficantly on several. Everyone still got paid.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

plow4beer said:


> Unless there's an agreement stating so.
> 
> I have a few customers that consistently pay 45-60..but 30 days is pretty standard. If I have a sub work on those 45-60 payout jobs, the sub still gets paid in 30.
> 
> generals need to have working capitol to handle paying bills on jobs they haven't been paid in full for yet.


Although I do agree with you 100%, I'm not sure what the OPs backstory is.

We have done almost 2 years worth of work in the last 30 days, and they have had to spend over a half million in salt. No matter how big you are, if you don't have cash flow you will eventually run out of money. We went from not working a single day in December, to nonstop January and February.

While I don't agree with it, I can understand it. You need to go knocking on this guys door, and quit sending texts. Texts are for your friends, phone calls and face to face are for your business. Find out what's going on. We are only 20 days out on our checks, so 30+ is a bit different.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JMHConstruction said:


> Although I do agree with you 100%, I'm not sure what the OPs backstory is.
> 
> We have done almost 2 years worth of work in the last 30 days, and they have had to spend over a half million in salt. No matter how big you are, if you don't have cash flow you will eventually run out of money. We went from not working a single day in December, to nonstop January and February.
> 
> While I don't agree with it, I can understand it. You need to go knocking on this guys door, and quit sending texts. Texts are for your friends, phone calls and face to face are for your business. Find out what's going on. We are only 20 days out on our checks, so 30+ is a bit different.


That said, they have already taken the steps to get money in. They saw it becoming a problem and are taking care of it.

Hopefully your guy is doing the same


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JMHConstruction said:


> That said, they have already taken the steps to get money in. They saw it becoming a problem and are taking care of it.
> 
> Hopefully your guy is doing the same


That's what a LOC is for.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> I've sent my time sheets in tonight for work performed Tuesday also with "did you get my text about when I can expect a check?"
> 
> As of right now, no response.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure that each state has laws on the books regarding time alotted to pay any sub contractor. Been a long time I researched it here, if memory serves me right, the GC legally is required to pay subs within 7 business days after the work is completed.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> 16 years has taught me this has red flags all over it. The only way I'll do any more plowing is to write up a very specific contract as an amendment to pay schedule. Until that is signed, the accounts will not be serviced by me. Its the only leverage I have before the end of the season and I'll sit at home before working for nothing.


You're a little inconsistent. In your first post you said you've been subbing 17 years. Whether it's 16 or 17, the first thing you would learn subbing is to have a written contract in place spelling out your responsibilities and requirements, their expectations, your payment values and payment terms. Are you saying you don't have this already in place?

If you already have this agreement in writing and they are behind in payments to you, and you have been doing your job as agreed upon, yes certainly press him on this. Be polite but press him hard. Tell him you will interrupt service on your sites until his account with you is current.

Are you dealing with the owner of the company, or a manager of some sort?

Other than pursuing him through the legal system after the fact, the only hand you have right now is to interrupt service on his sites.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> We have done almost 2 years worth of work in the last 30 days, and they have had to spend over a half million in salt. No matter how big you are, if you don't have cash flow you will eventually run out of money. We went from not working a single day in December, to nonstop January and February.


That is a nice mindset to have... want to come work for me?

I will gladly give you two cheeseburgers next Tuesday...

I wish I could tell my guys that since I just spent a bunch of money on material they need to wait to get paid till i get a draw.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> That is a nice mindset to have... want to come work for me?


Did your beer assistant suddenly quit on you?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> Did your beer assistant suddenly quit on you?


Nope... still employeed


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

EWSplow said:


> Lien might not be an option. OP, check your state's lien laws. They may not allow liens for maintenance, like they do for capital improvements.
> Either way, if he doesn't respond, you may want to contact the property owners, or property managers before it's too late. If they don't owe him money, there's nothing they can do. If they owe him money, that could be used for leverage.


Although very true, the other angle on this that I have used is to send them a letter or better yet, have your lawyer send a letter that if you do not receive correspondence in the next 7 days, you will be filing lien paperwork.

If the person does not know the lien laws (which most never seem to) it might just be enough to get a fire under his... and get you paid.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Although very true, the other angle on this that I have used is to send them a letter or better yet, have your lawyer send a letter that if you do not receive correspondence in the next 7 days, you will be filing lien paperwork.
> 
> If the person does not know the lien laws (which most never seem to) it might just be enough to get a fire under his... and get you paid.


Agreed. I've also done that. Btw, my attorney didn't charge for it.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

dieselss said:


> When you talked to the new guy about subbing, did you guys discuss pay?
> Was it agreed upon?
> 
> I see where your coming from, but if nothing was agreed upon before hire, sounds like your just leveraging him in a bad way.
> But then again as a sub myself I know where your coming from.


Yep, " what's your contract say?"
It all flows down hill, customers don't pay on time, he can't pay on time . Equipment breaks that wasn't budgeted for. 
I try to pay my subs weekly, it may not be the full amount they are owed, but something, weekly.
Right now when I pay them tomorrow, it will be for last week. So I'm keeping up right now. They did go 2 weeks in December. but, we barely had snow before Christmas.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jonniesmooth said:


> It all flows down hill, customers don't pay on time, he can't pay on time . Equipment breaks that wasn't budgeted for.


None of this is the sub's fault. Or problem.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> None of this is the sub's fault. Or problem.


I didn't say it was.

In my contracts with customers payments are due by the 10th if the next month. If they don't pay on time, they have cancelled their service. If they call and ask why there account hasn't been done, I tell them . If they were a PITA to begin with, I'm perfectly fine if they never call.
The same rule and logic could be applied here. If he hasn't been paid according to the contract, they have no expectations that he would continue to work.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Not that this is the case with this contractor but I have seen many times a guy blow up over night. Uncontrolled growth can be toxic and it sounds like it's either this or undercapitalization or both. 
Either way those guys usually have some pretty nice gently used equipment for sale!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> That is a nice mindset to have... want to come work for me?
> 
> I will gladly give you two cheeseburgers next Tuesday...
> 
> I wish I could tell my guys that since I just spent a bunch of money on material they need to wait to get paid till i get a draw.


They are getting a massive loan to take care of it. It's not like we're never getting paid. Still get paid faster from them than my net 30 customers


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

I send emails/texts and the lack of responses for a paper trail.

I have also suspended all services, pending termination if my "annoyances" become unheeded, and with a good chance of snow Saturday/Sunday, maybe that'll enough of an a"annoyance" to get his attention. He is incredibly short staffed so that plays to my favor. 

I am also hunting for an attorney in hopes that maybe if the attorney sends him a letter with possible law suits, that'll get his attention.

In Iowa, even as a subcontractor, i can file for a mechanic's lien on the properties. 

Yes I have made some mistakes on my part that will be remedied in the future to cover my butt better but this contractor and I will be parting ways. 

I'm not letting it slide by, I am working on getting my ducks in a row. I didn't burn through tank after tank of diesel, get up at 2 am, beat on my equipment, and deal with cranky clients for nothing. 

Is communicating about when I'm going to start getting paid that leaves a paper trail a dumb idea? Obviously his word doesn't mean squat so I think anything verbal is worthless.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> I send emails/texts and the lack of responses for a paper trail.
> 
> I have also suspended all services, pending termination if my "annoyances" become unheeded, and with a good chance of snow Saturday/Sunday, maybe that'll enough of an a"annoyance" to get his attention. He is incredibly short staffed so that plays to my favor.
> 
> ...


You can place a mechanics lien for maintenance services? I know things work differently state by state but in OH you cannot file a lien for maintenance. Only repairs/installations.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

I don't plow professionally, so I may be out of line, but you might want to construct the narrative yourself by driving your route and telling the customers that you haven't been paid and that is why they aren't being serviced. 

If you just don't show, the contractor can just blame it on an unreliable sub. As far as the client knows, he's the innocent victim of some poor guy with a truck he tried to help out with a second chance; too bad he got taken in, and he will have someone out to plow as soon as he can.

If you show up, with a truck, but don't plow, then if I'm Joe Homeowner or Businessowner, I'm going to be on the phone is short order, and no talk of an unreliable sub is going to fly. 

If I haven't paid, then maybe I will pay the contractor. If I have paid, then I'm going to be very pissed off.

This will obviously burn a bridge, but it you are thinking about a lien it is burned anyway.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

I pay my subs the next day if need be. I'm not a nsp! I'm not a partner with my subs. It doesn't matter when I get paid. There getting paid has no connection with when I get paid. I keep enough funds available to keep everyone happy even if I have to pay myself slave wages for a period of time. If you have use your line of credit, you take the hit. It irks me how many run their so called businesses. Plus communication is key ,why avoid a frank discussion of what the situation is. The OP should have all his concerns addressed by the guy he's subbing out to. This isn't kindergarten ! This should have been talked about before the first flake. Hope it works out.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> I send emails/texts and the lack of responses for a paper trail.
> 
> I have also suspended all services, pending termination if my "annoyances" become unheeded, and with a good chance of snow Saturday/Sunday, maybe that'll enough of an a"annoyance" to get his attention. He is incredibly short staffed so that plays to my favor.
> 
> ...


Yes, keep records of every time you contact him. Every email, text, unanswered phone call, etc.

There was a worthless POS here in Milwaukee who burned subs and suppliers under several different company names. Maybe he moved to Iowa?

Not sure if Iowa has a way of checking court records online. We do in Wisconsin.

Here's the problem: you may get a judgment, but if there's others ahead of you, which haven't been satisfied, the judgement is probably worthless, cause you'll never get paid.

@Aerospace Eng had an interesting idea, show up on the site ready to go and you should get someone's attention.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

Aerospace Eng said:


> I don't plow professionally, so I may be out of line, but you might want to construct the narrative yourself by driving your route and telling the customers that you haven't been paid and that is why they aren't being serviced.
> 
> If you just don't show, the contractor can just blame it on an unreliable sub. As far as the client knows, he's the innocent victim of some poor guy with a truck he tried to help out with a second chance; too bad he got taken in, and he will have someone out to plow as soon as he can.
> 
> ...


If he hasn't been paid, I can be sympathetic to that. What really, really worries me is the failure to communicate. I kid you not, the day it snowed, he just text me to ask how things were going, I replied, then I asked about pay. Crickets.

I didn't find out that one of the accounts was subcontracted through a NSP until I went in to talk to the manager. That's pretty vital information in my book. I did some digging and found an email address for the NSP so I can contact them to see if checks have been issued.

I do like your idea though of stopping at these other places to talk to whoever is in charge. That did cross my mind but I figured they would tell me that its between the contractor and their accounts payable people.

At this point, I don't care about the bridge. Burn, baby burn.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

EWSplow said:


> Yes, keep records of every time you contact him. Every email, text, unanswered phone call, etc.
> 
> There was a worthless POS here in Milwaukee who burned subs and suppliers under several different company names. Maybe he moved to Iowa?
> 
> ...


It is possible that all he did was uproot and move south. Only thing we have here is a statewide court record search. Maybe WI has the same thing?

You are 100% correct. A judgement against him isn't a for sure thing to get paid. This is why I'm extremely nervous about doing anything further for him. Expensive learning lesson but at least I wouldn't be into April, with $3k more in billing, and I'm holding my junk in my hand. It would make more sense to slam my fingers into a car door.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> I send emails/texts and the lack of responses for a paper trail.
> 
> I have also suspended all services, pending termination if my "annoyances" become unheeded, and with a good chance of snow Saturday/Sunday, maybe that'll enough of an a"annoyance" to get his attention. He is incredibly short staffed so that plays to my favor.
> 
> ...


You're not answering the question. Do you have a written contract/agreement in place with this company? If not, and he's a professional slug intent on screwing you you'll need quite a bit of luck and must spend time and money collecting from him. Even if it goes so far as getting a judgment against him, chances are you'll never see a nickel. Unfortunately that's the way it goes sometimes.

The only good news about this whole situation is you'll learn a basic standard...never perform services without a written contract.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> If he hasn't been paid, I can be sympathetic to that.
> 
> I didn't find out that one of the accounts was subcontracted through a NSP until I went in to talk to the manager. That's pretty vital information in my book.


Don't ever be sympathetic for that. You did the work you need to be paid regardless if he gets paid late or not at all.

The NSP he may be working for won't be helpful to you. At best you might have a good conversation with somebody there. Bottom line is they don't care about a sub of a sub and are not obligated to pay you anything.

I've had employees of subs, and their subs call me to tell me they haven't been paid by their boss even though they did the work for him. Although I certainly sympathize with them, I can't make them whole. Nor will I.


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

Luther said:


> Don't ever be sympathetic for that. You did the work you need to be paid regardless if he gets paid late or not at all.
> 
> The NSP he may be working for won't be helpful to you. At best you might have a good conversation with somebody there. Bottom line is they don't care about a sub of a sub and are not obligated to pay you anything.
> 
> I've had employees of subs, and their subs call me to tell me they haven't been paid by their boss even though they did the work for him. Although I certainly sympathize with them, I can't make them whole. Nor will I.


Nor do I expect a client or a NSP to make me whole for earnings. That's not their place at all.

I did some court records searching. I found a very recent lawsuit against him by a landscape supply company. I sent an email to their accounting clerk who is named as a representative in the lawsuit to see if I can get more information. My gut was right, he is a hack.

His personal rap sheet isn't much better. "Unable to send certified letter, returned, bad address" seems to be the common theme.

Thanks for the reinforcement that I should NOT be second guessing myself and that I do need to be paid, no exceptions. Finding this pending lawsuit that he was just served shows that he will screw anyone.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

"I don't plow professionally, so I may be out of line, but you might want to construct the narrative yourself by driving your route and telling the customers that you haven't been paid and that is why they aren't being serviced. "

I like this idea, do it in writing.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> It would make more sense to slam my fingers into a car door.


This made me think of the Weird Al song "One more Minute."


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Here, were subject to filing leans against the property we've worked on for the main contractor, should he decide not to pay his subs. Legally, the main contractor has 10 calendar days to pay his subs unless his contract states otherwise. 

Not sure what Iowa laws state, but here the property owner who received the services , directed by the lead contractor, is subject to leans on their property. 

A notice to each property owner stating failure to be paid, and subsequent proposed leans on their properties, usually sets a fire under the butt of the lead contractor, as he's in for a deluge of calls from angry customers


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Dogplow Dodge said:


> A notice to each property owner stating failure to be paid, and subsequent proposed leans on their properties, usually sets a fire under the butt of the lead contractor, as he's in for a deluge of calls from angry customers


Absolutely. Do not take this lying down BadDodge. Be vocal and loud to this guys clients. At least get a pound or two of flesh out of the deadbeat. If he threatens you with some slander b.s. call his bluff. You can't slander someone using truth.


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## ffcblower (Oct 31, 2011)

Why not take aerospace’s idea a bit further. If he’s short staffed, you aren’t getting paid, and his clients aren’t being serviced I would say they may need a new contractor. Bring your insurance certificate and proposals/contracts to his customers and cut out the middleman


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

OneBadDodge06 said:


> It is possible that all he did was uproot and move south. Only thing we have here is a statewide court record search. Maybe WI has the same thing?
> 
> You are 100% correct. A judgement against him isn't a for sure thing to get paid. This is why I'm extremely nervous about doing anything further for him. Expensive learning lesson but at least I wouldn't be into April, with $3k more in billing, and I'm holding my junk in my hand. It would make more sense to slam my fingers into a car door.


Yes, do the online court records search using his name, his company's name and his wife's name, if you know it. At least you may find out if you have a chance of getting anything. 
Here's another angle: you find out he's been paid by his clients and you were not paid . Try to get documentation from his clients, their contract with him, payment records, etc. Take everything to the district attorney, because he has committed contractor fraud. Before you do this, contact him with the info. He might be willing to pay up if he knows he's facing jail time.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

The more I read the less (not any anymore) I feel he's hit a rough patch, and the more I feel like he's just a POS.

If I can't communicate with him, I'm either banging on doors or getting a lawyer.

I agree with speaking to the customers, and letting them know what's going on. Be careful you don't step over the line to slander. You'd hate for this idiot to be able to counter sue you.

Good luck to you.


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## whammer33024 (Dec 22, 2017)

do you have a written contract? i'm going to assume since you haven't directly answered that question that you do not. DO NOT DO ANY MORE WORK FOR HIM. contact the clients you serve and tell them why they're not being serviced and give them your business card. 

you can try to get paid for work already performed, but without a written contract it will be hard to collect anything. cut ties and move on


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Mail, Email, text, call and knock on his door telling him you are suspending service until you receive payment.

If he doesn't pay, you knock on the clients door and explaining that you will no longer be servicing their properties because of non-payment by him.

If you have a non compete clause in your contract then that's about all you can do but if you don't I would bid the work directly with the clients so at least for the rest of the season you can get paid by them. 

Then it's court time for him.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

MSsnowplowing said:


> Mail, Email, text, call and knock on his door telling him you are suspending service until you receive payment.
> 
> If he doesn't pay, you knock on the clients door and explaining that you will no longer be servicing their properties because of non-payment by him.
> 
> ...


The non-compete would probably be nullified under the circumstances. 
And if there's a non-compete then there's probably a contract that we cant seem to get a straight answer on???


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## ratherbfishin (Aug 1, 2011)

All my snow plowing is done direct for property owners with no subs involved!
That being said, I’m a builder in the real world. All my subs get paid as soon as their job is complete, or the contract phase/payment due is met. As a “general contractor” that is your responsibility to manage cash flow to be able to hold up your end of the bargain. If you want to retain good peeps, with a good relationship, $$$ is priority!
In reality, you become a bank. Many times, I don’t see the majority of my $$$ till the last & final payment!


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## Oxmow (Dec 6, 2006)

Here’s another angle...maybe...how much time do you think you can spend on this trying to get your money back, contacting properties, working through their contracts with him, following his payments, looking at a lawyer, before you have spent more money in time than you are waiting on? Unless you now have the time because you lost his business. I might spend the time going to the customers and telling them what happened and with the storm coming you are available. All they have to say to get out of their “contract” is that services weren’t performed and they cancelled. And you’re there to save the day!


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