# Direct lift plows vs. Chain Lift



## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

Been wondering this for a while, you are seeing a lot of companies having direct lift vs. chain. Probably the most prominent rivalry in this fight is Boss vs. Western. 

My assertion is, a chain lift system will always give instant float when needed, and when stacking snow, you can basically push to the limits for the frame. In the event of a failure, you can hike the chain up to carry the blade home. However, a chain plow will bounce all over the place when driving over bumps and whatnot. 

Now, I am less familiar with the direct lift cylinder setup, so please help me out here. How does a direct lift provide instant float over rough patches, and how does it work when stacking snow high? 

I have always been partial to the chain setup, the simpler the better, but I am interested to learn how the direct lifts function as I might have a choice between the two coming up soon. Please fill me in people. Thanks! :waving:


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

not this again...................


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)




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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Do a search. B+B just gave a great answer to this yesterday or the day before. Direct lift is better.


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

grandview;946625 said:


>


Thank you


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Direct lift the plow is in float if you set it. It glides over the lot just like a chain lift.


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks guys, appreciate responses. Searched but really didn't see anything.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

toby4492;946596 said:


> not this again...................


....................


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Let me put it this way. Converting my chain lift plow to direct lift is on my list of mods to do.


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## sno commander (Oct 16, 2007)

2COR517;946965 said:


> Let me put it this way. Converting my chain lift plow to direct lift is on my list of mods to do.


whats wrong with the chain lift?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

2COR517;946965 said:


> Let me put it this way. Converting my chain lift plow to direct lift is on my list of mods to do.


You going to give it DP while you're at it?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

cretebaby;946988 said:


> You going to give it DP while you're at it?


Eyes on your own paper.


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

B&B;946994 said:


> Eyes on your own paper.


LMAO


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

sno commander;946978 said:


> whats wrong with the chain lift?


Mostly this......



Pinky Demon;946589 said:


> ...... However, a chain plow will bounce all over the place when driving over bumps and whatnot......


Plus, I hate the delay waiting for the slack to take up at the end of a push. With the direct lift, just take it off float, blade will stay where it is so you can go across the lawn without tearing it up.

In addition, the lift arm is another source of noise, and problems. Mine will likely have a substantial crack in it before the end of the season. The chain gets hit by the trip spring bracket and needs to be replaced every couple of years.

Also, I like to be a little different......


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

cretebaby;946988 said:


> You going to give it DP while you're at it?


That has been discussed......


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

2COR517;947000 said:


> Also, I like to be a little different......


Hmmmm................never noticed that 

At least you are different in a good way


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

Tom...will you make some more popcorn...lmao


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Pinky Demon;946589 said:


> Been wondering this for a while, you are seeing a lot of companies having direct lift vs. chain. Probably the most prominent rivalry in this fight is Boss vs. Western.
> 
> Except for the Western/Fisher HT units which are direct lift, oh and DD's other company Blizzard
> 
> ...


How is a cylinder lifting an arm to tighten a chain simpler then just using the cylinder itself? Saves a little weight too.


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

Excellent post Basher, couldn't have said it better myself. :salute:

I never understood the need to buy a plow with the ability to "short chain" being one of the selling points.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

toby4492;947325 said:


> Excellent post Basher, couldn't have said it better myself. :salute:
> 
> I never understood the need to buy a plow with the ability to "short chain" being one of the selling points.


I would think that would be a big selling point for plows with no up pressure. :laughing:


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

hydro_37;947111 said:


> Tom...will you make some more popcorn...lmao


Grandview's in charge of  today Tim


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## Pinky Demon (Jan 6, 2010)

Alright, here is another one for you guys. 

Say you are pulling out a parking lot with a slight downward grade and when you pull out, the plow bangs slightly on the pavement. The chain provides the instant float and the blade pops up, the direct lift... 

?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Pinky Demon;947544 said:


> Alright, here is another one for you guys.
> 
> Say you are pulling out a parking lot with a slight downward grade and when you pull out, the plow bangs slightly on the pavement. The chain provides the instant float and the blade pops up, the direct lift...
> 
> ?


If the plow is up against the stacking stocks, that is as high as you can go regardless of lift system.


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## ajman21 (Oct 30, 2009)

2COR517;947573 said:


> If the plow is up against the stacking stocks, that is as high as you can go regardless of lift system.


yes but say ur riding with the plow lifted but a couple inches off the ground (not that i think any one realy does this but just for discussion)?? would u dig in or is there some sort of pressure release, a good hit like that cant be good for the pump?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

ajman21;947769 said:


> yes but say ur riding with the plow lifted but a couple inches off the ground?? would u dig in or is there some sort of pressure release, a good hit like that cant be good for the pump?


Doesn't affect a thing. The non pressurized end of the lift cylinder can exhaust any pressure (created by the blade contacting the ground) back to the reservoir as needed.

So basically the blade can travel up to the physical stops if it needs to, its not hydraulically held from being pushed up as it's not used as a double acting cylinder when holding the blade in the air.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Pinky Demon;947544 said:


> Alright, here is another one for you guys.
> 
> Say you are pulling out a parking lot with a slight downward grade and when you pull out, the plow bangs slightly on the pavement. The chain provides the instant float and the blade pops up,
> 
> ?


and the chain goes slack and pops out of the lift arm slot (have seen it happen)

Try this, you're stacking, as you run into the pile the blade "skis" up the pile allowing the chain to go slack until the blade reaches the top then drops down the back side and your hung on the pile (been there, before I got smart and changed to direct lift). Now you get out, short chain, shovel a little to free the blade and truck, something a a direct lift will not do.

or this; you are going to hook up but the plow has settled a little since you removed it and is below the mounting points on the truck. With a chain lift you get a bar or a jack or a couple buddies and bar and a jack to get it to a height you can attach it to the truck. With a direct lift you do it yourself using the plows hydraulics.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

I missed the other thread from a couple days ago someone mentioned and I can't find it. 

I think this is beating a dead horse, thats my problem with religion and politics, I just wish everyone would see things my way.. errr, I mean the right way.

But anyways, I think chain lift works fine, I just don't see the point. It makes no sense to have a chain lift to me. There is no advantage besides the short chain idea, but really how many of you people don't carry around all kinds of chains, straps, and ratchet straps in your trucks anyways? This shouldn't be a problem.

By the way, I was looking at a Fisher MM2 the other day and I noticed they spring loaded the triangle lifting point to pull down for easier mounting. But doesn't this make it so you have to lift through a couple inches of slack chain before your plow starts to lift up? Does it create a delay? If so that is a crap design, but so was their MM1 where you had to get up and jump on the triangle to push it down to have enough chain to be able to push the tower up close enough to the truck for mounting... I own a MM1 on a back up truck and I hate it, but I was just wondering about the MM2 as I have never used one. My MM1 is hard to mount, painfully slow, just an unimpressive plow.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

By the way, I was looking at a Fisher MM2 the other day and I noticed they spring loaded the triangle lifting point to pull down for easier mounting. But doesn't this make it so you have to lift through a couple inches of slack chain before your plow starts to lift up? Does it create a delay?

YES but, that is true with all chain lift plows

If so that is a crap design, but so was their MM1 where you had to get up and jump on the triangle to push it down to have enough chain to be able to push the tower up close enough to the truck for mounting... I own a MM1 on a back up truck and I hate it,

Not a function of the design (MM1 OR 2) Ive had both plows (1 MM1 and 3 MM2 on all of them the lift cylinder would collapse completely (even without the spring you mentioned) when I parked the plow.
I NEVER park my plow without letting the lift cylinder collapse completely. 

but I was just wondering about the MM2 as I have never used one. My MM1 is hard to mount, painfully slow, just an unimpressive plow.

I find the MM2 very easy to mount easier than my BOSS RT3


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## jt5019 (Aug 28, 2003)

Pinky Demon;947544 said:


> Alright, here is another one for you guys.
> 
> Say you are pulling out a parking lot with a slight downward grade and when you pull out, the plow bangs slightly on the pavement. The chain provides the instant float and the blade pops up, the direct lift...
> 
> ?


We have had both chain lift fishers and direct lift boss plows. After running both i just couldn't get used to the direct lift plows. It seemed like the direct lift plows would always catch things that the chain lift glided right over. Especially at the entrances to parking lots an driveways almost like the situation posted above. Also if the bump is big enough to make you chain lift plows (bounce all over) you probably should have slowed down for it.


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## MOWBIZZ (Sep 11, 2007)

jt5019;947941 said:


> It seemed like the direct lift plows would always catch things that the chain lift glided right over. Especially at the entrances to parking lots an driveways almost like the situation posted above.


Isn't this what the "trip" feature is for? I'd rather have a good scrape and trip a little more often than have my plow glide over bumps and leave snow packed on each side of it...BTW I have never used a chain lift so I'm in favor of the direct lift system as it works well for me.
I hear nothing but bad comments from Fisher owners I know about the "issues" they encounter with their plows...that said, I would love to try one (chain) some day and experience the differences first hand.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

jt5019;947941 said:


> We have had both chain lift fishers and direct lift boss plows. After running both i just couldn't get used to the direct lift plows. It seemed like the direct lift plows would always catch things that the chain lift glided right over. Especially at the entrances to parking lots an driveways almost like the situation posted above.
> 
> That's more a feature of the trip edge then the chain lift
> 
> Also if the bump is big enough to make you chain lift plows (bounce all over) you probably should have slowed down for it.


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

I speak from experience as I have only ever used Boss direct lifts until season when I, much like the cheap moron I am, purchased a Meyer for my nice new F 250.......what a mistake...chain lift sucks...it bounces all over the place and I don't feel it floats as well as my Boss's do....I would go direct lift...the ONLY advantage to a chain lift is in case the pump fails and the Ram won't pick up you can jack up the plow and move the chain up high to get it home..with my Boss if I blow a lift line or damage my lift cylinder as I have before, I have to drop the plow onsite and grab another truck back at the shop....but a direct lift also is much more responsive than chain lift


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## MahonLawnCare (Nov 18, 2007)

MOWBIZZ;947966 said:


> Isn't this what the "trip" feature is for? I'd rather have a good scrape and trip a little more often than have my plow glide over bumps and leave snow packed on each side of it...BTW I have never used a chain lift so I'm in favor of the direct lift system as it works well for me.
> I hear nothing but bad comments from Fisher owners I know about the "issues" they encounter with their plows...that said, I would love to try one (chain) some day and experience the differences first hand.


Also true...My Meyer will glide over hardpack where as the Boss will trip and get it up off the pavement


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

MahonLawnCare;948176 said:


> I speak from experience as I have only ever used Boss direct lifts until season when I, much like the cheap moron I am, purchased a Meyer for my nice new F 250.......what a mistake...chain lift sucks...it bounces all over the place and I don't feel it floats as well as my Boss's do....I would go direct lift...the ONLY advantage to a chain lift is in case the pump fails and the Ram won't pick up you can jack up the plow and move the chain up high to get it home..with my Boss if I blow a lift line or damage my lift cylinder as I have before, I have to drop the plow onsite and grab another truck back at the shop....but a direct lift also is much more responsive than chain lift


Keep a ratchet strap behind the seat. You can run the Boss into a snowbank and run a strap from the light tower to the A-frame.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

My concern with the direct lift is breaking the cylinder mount when stacking like I've read about the boss plows. Other than that I think they are both good


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

plowguy43;948252 said:


> My concern with the direct lift is breaking the cylinder mount when stacking like I've read about the boss plows. Other than that I think they are both good


Don't abuse it. that's what loaders are for,to make extra money.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

How is stacking snow abuse? I always raise my plow at the end of a push I never thought of it as abuse.


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## cubanb343 (Dec 13, 2007)

My XV doesn't bounce at all when going over bumps. The chain lift works fine, the problem I have is paying $13.66 for a new hardened u-bolt kit because one side came loose and fell off. (it's now double nutted like 2COR advises) Other than that, "waiting for the slack to get out of the chain when going into a pile?" How about bumping the lift once before getting to the pile; which tightens the chain and puts more weight back on your tires so you can steer, but keeps the edge on the ground and creates instantaneous lift when you reach your pile destination. We're talking about a matter of seconds here mostly.. I'm not picking sides- I agree direct lift is probably better, but the arguments about the chain lift aren't all that big of a deal. In a couple years, every plow maker will be direct lift, except for Meyer of course they're still a few years behind everyone (i like the new V they came out with this year that has the center rubber 'cutting edge') LOL


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

toby4492;946596 said:


> not this again...................





grandview;946625 said:


>


I wish I had seen this before last night's message.

Bummer, guess I'll leave it at that.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

grandview;948269 said:


> Don't abuse it. that's what loaders are for,to make extra money.


I couldn't agree more. I too used to think that stacking was OK for a truck until I noticed 90% we had a plow break, it was stacking at the time.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe my idea of stacking is differet. I have never had a problem.


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

plowguy43;948490 said:


> Maybe my idea of stacking is differet. I have never had a problem.


Neither have I.

I think the problem he is referring too is when boss switched the upper tube to a thinner wall and people had problems with that bar bending and breaking. I believe they switched back to a thicker wall tubing.


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## suzuki0702 (Apr 6, 2008)

ill bet 99% of the people reading this thread stack snow with their truck! are we all abusive untrained indivduals? to each his own, but meyer is not the only chain lift plow out there. my ultramount is easier to mount than a rt3 im sure of it. barely ever does my blade bounce on bumps it only weighs 857lbs..........


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

My first fisher would bounce when I'd go over HUGE frost heaves in NH at 10mph. There was one road with one section that would always do it. Man it made my truck sound and feel like it was going to break in half. Never have had a problem since then.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Also- what do you guys consider stacking? I consider it pushing the snow and as you reach the end where the snow bank is, you raise the plow at the last minute to push the bank up. Am I wrong?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

The bouncing problem is not just when transporting between jobs. When plowing if you hit an obstacle sometimes the blade will shoot up in the air. It's not just gravel. Cuts or breaks in the hot top can do it too. And you don't have to be going a hundred for it to happen.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

I should of said stacking ok to a point. I see guys riding up the snowbank so high you'd think they were using a bulldozer ,not a truck


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh ok, theb yeah that's abuse. The plow jumping thing- that's happened at my parking lot I do once before and persoally I'd rather the plow jump than have the hydraulics/plow frame/truck take that impact. Maybe its just me, but if I had a direct lift I'd still want it to jump over large cracks or manhole covers.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Some times there is just so much snow you have to stack


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

basher;948855 said:


> Some times there is just so much snow you have to stack


Where?....


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

plowguy43;948849 said:


> Maybe its just me, but if I had a direct lift I'd still want it to jump over large cracks or manhole covers.


And they do.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Chain lifts are far far superior to direct lifts when it comes to stacking. I'm sure a lot of my friends who are responding in this thread are rolling their eyes right now but in your heart of hearts you have to know I'm right. 

I also like the chain lift because after the plow rides into a stack and raises up the pump and motor are not burdened by having to lift it up since it's already at full height. I hit the button to raise the ram and there's no stress there at all.


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## jt5019 (Aug 28, 2003)

MOWBIZZ;947966 said:


> Isn't this what the "trip" feature is for? I'd rather have a good scrape and trip a little more often than have my plow glide over bumps and leave snow packed on each side of it...BTW I have never used a chain lift so I'm in favor of the direct lift system as it works well for me.
> I hear nothing but bad comments from Fisher owners I know about the "issues" they encounter with their plows...that said, I would love to try one (chain) some day and experience the differences first hand.


All our plows fisher and boss had trip edges (dont like full trip) the boss would catch things and even tear up chunks of pavement never had that problem with the fishers.


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## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

Camden;948913 said:


> I also like the chain lift because after the plow rides into a stack and raises up the pump and motor are not burdened by having to lift it up since it's already at full height. I hit the button to raise the ram and there's no stress there at all.


x2 i will always have a chain lift.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Camden;948913 said:


> I also like the chain lift because after the plow rides into a stack and raises up the pump and motor are not burdened by having to lift it up since it's already at full height. I hit the button to raise the ram and there's no stress there at all.


Come on Roy you know better than that. If its already up, its up. Makes no difference to the lift method that got it there.

Take that how you want.


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## AbsoluteH&L (Jan 5, 2006)

B&B;948958 said:


> Come on Roy you know better than that. If its already up, its up. Makes no difference to the lift method that got it there.
> 
> Take that how you want.


Some methods are just more fun!


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

The rhythm method is best for plowing


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## andcon83 (Dec 10, 2005)

When you are plowing, the plow is always moving in a up and down motion, no matter if you are on flat road. Chain lift, the piston stays down and the slack in the chain takes the motion. On direct lift, isn't the piston constanly going in and out while in float?  Seems like the more a piston moves the quicker it may wear out.

When it comes to waiting for the slack in the chain, I always seem to be on the way up before coming into the bank or stopping my push. The plow is always up or on its way before the truck goes into reverse.

I think this is all just a matter of personal preference.


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## andcon83 (Dec 10, 2005)

grandview;949052 said:


> The rhythm method is best for plowing


The rhythm method is good for alot of things!!!!!:laughing:


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

andcon83;949096 said:


> On direct lift, isn't the piston constanly going in and out while in float? Seems like the more a piston moves the quicker it may wear out.


Yes it travels in and out as it's designed to but there's no indication that it leads to an increase in wear. I replace a heck of a lot more rams and packings in Wester/Fisher/Meyer chain lifted plows than I ever have on direct lifted plow. Many more lift arms, pins, pivot bolts, chains, chain U-bolts, and repaired attachment holes too.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

The rods are so smooth and the seals are very good quality so the motion is not really a factor.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

B&B;948958 said:


> Come on Roy you know better than that. If its already up, its up. Makes no difference to the lift method that got it there.


So do you need to bump up your direct lift plow before reaching a pile so that it'll stack or does it ride up on it's own?

My Boss and my Hiniker needed to be on their way up via the system hydraulics (causing stress to the pump/motor ) in order for it to stack effectively otherwise they'd just ram right into the pile. My Western doesn't need any help in order to stack.


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

My boss will ride up a pile if it's in float. I don't have to power it up to make it ride up. When in float it follows the terrain just like a chain


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Camden;949173 said:


> So do you need to bump up your direct lift plow before reaching a pile so that it'll stack or does it ride up on it's own?


 Wrong comparison. That is the difference in blade attack angle, not the lift method. Your seeing the difference in the shallower angle on the Hiniker and Boss vs the steeper angle on your Western. The steeper the angle the easier/quicker it climbs up the pile...regardless of lift method.



Camden;949173 said:


> My Boss and my Hiniker needed to be on their way up via the system hydraulics (causing stress to the pump/motor ) in order for it to stack effectively otherwise they'd just ram right into the pile. My Western doesn't need any help in order to stack.


The Westerns seldom do and is one thing many guys whom run them complain about, can't keep them down, and instead they want to "ski" up the stack rather than push, and again due to the steep attack.

Even the great plow Messa himself ditched his for something that stays on the ground.


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

Camden;949173 said:


> So do you need to bump up your direct lift plow before reaching a pile so that it'll stack or does it ride up on it's own?
> 
> My Boss and my Hiniker needed to be on their way up via the system hydraulics (causing stress to the pump/motor ) in order for it to stack effectively otherwise they'd just ram right into the pile. My Western doesn't need any help in order to stack.


well...if the snow is wet then yes..I have to bump it up a bit before hitting the pile or else it will just ram into the pile...but when the snow is fluffy..the hiniker needs no bumping up to stack at all.


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## sno commander (Oct 16, 2007)

heres an advantage with the chain lift that i see. on the ultra mounts theres a pivot bar that keeps the mount sraight but the blade will contour to the surface. i dont think you could do this with a direct lift,making uneven terrain more difficult to hook the plow up.


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

sno commander;949379 said:


> heres an advantage with the chain lift that i see. on the ultra mounts theres a pivot bar that keeps the mount sraight but the blade will contour to the surface. i dont think you could do this with a direct lift,making uneven terrain more difficult to hook the plow up.


I don't think what you said has anything to do with the differences between chain lifts and direct lifts...just mentioning a feature on western plows which happen to have a chain.


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

Plus I try not to leave my plow in a pile of rocks. When my plow comes off its in my shop. And there is play in the blade side to side to follow the ground with a direct lift.

My Dad has run westerns longer than I been around and im 30. After out-plowing him after only a few storms with my boss V he decided to give the boss a try and outfitted his new truck with one and he loves the direct lift. Every year something went down on his westerns, even new. Im on my 4th year with my direct lift and I haven't had one problem, neither has my Dad. Ive only changed my fluid twice in the last 4 years and It hasn't weeped a drop anywhere.

This will be a never ending debate for sure and its funny to see some of the comments people make who never even used a direct lift plow before.


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## kramer56 (Oct 13, 2006)

I went from Fisher to Snoway and to me there is no comparisonin the lift system. Snoway hands down. The fisher never mounted good out in the stone since i don't have a garage and the Mega V is flawless for me on the hook up its easy and faster. The direct lift on mine will dig til the end then ride up at the pile which was way better than the fisher mm2 always lifting all over creating high spots in the driveway(hated that). So far the only thing I would like different in my Snoway is the wing speeds but I have adapted to them and life is good. Everyone knows every plow will have issues but most on here are driver related I mean cmon these are not meant to be graders dozers and loaders ya know. 
As far as the topic goes I have become a huge fan of the direct lift although i am not sure if is float sometimes due to digging in or is it just because its over 1000lbs lol.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

I've tried a brand new 7'6" Boss Superduty on 3 of my drives and other than being fast as hell (Boss trademark) I really didn't notice a difference between chyain/ direct lift


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

plowguy43;949684 said:


> I've tried a brand new 7'6" Boss Superduty on 3 of my drives and other than being fast as hell (Boss trademark) I really didn't notice a difference between chyain/ direct lift


I imagine not if your only doing drives.

And the good thing is, you didnt notice much difference. Thats because there isnt much other than holding the plow secure instead of being wobbly and bouncing around on rough roads.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

Didn't really notice much there either. I drove it 45 minutes from work to my house over some bumpy roads and yes it was sturdy but still rocked side to side like my fisher. I still haven't encountered bad enough bumps here in Maine to jump my plow when driving. Now NH was a differet story and I'd probably be in favor of direct lift.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

WOW its amazing, many of the attributes credited to chain lift and or direct lift have NOTHING to do with the lifting system but with other design aspects of the plow.


like saying; I have a V8 and I have a 6 cyl truck. I like the 6 cyl much better, because the windows go up much easier.


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## kramer56 (Oct 13, 2006)

that made no sense at all your sig says u have a jeeps


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## kramer56 (Oct 13, 2006)

was not trying to ruin your integrity or anything so...........................

The chain lift system seems to me will float better across the terrain while my v digs, that may be just an adjustment i need to make and Basher please let me know if it is my setup and what to do with it.


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

Pinky Demon;946589 said:


> Been wondering this for a while, you are seeing a lot of companies having direct lift vs. chain. Probably the most prominent rivalry in this fight is Boss vs. Western.
> 
> My assertion is, a chain lift system will always give instant float when needed, and when stacking snow, you can basically push to the limits for the frame. In the event of a failure, you can hike the chain up to carry the blade home. However, a chain plow will bounce all over the place when driving over bumps and whatnot.
> 
> ...


Chains on chain lifts are known to break - I've had that happen more often in my career (39years of full time only job in winter plowing) than a direct lift plow needing to be pulled off a snow pile and / or strapped up to get it back to the shop. The direct lift plows we use stack snow every bit as high if not higher than the chain lift plows we formerly used. We have broken more hydraulic lines and elbows and nipples on the cylinders of the chain lift plows and virtually none on direct lift plows.

My overall assessment is that for safety reasons and overall reliability reasons the direct lift is a better plow system hands down. My observation comes from years of using chain lift Western and Meyers plows and now we are using the Boss and Blizzard direct lift plows.

Herm Witte


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

kramer56;950302 said:


> was not trying to ruin your integrity or anything so...........................
> 
> The chain lift system seems to me will float better across the terrain while my v digs, that may be just an adjustment i need to make and Basher please let me know if it is my setup and what to do with it.


Turn off the down Pressure:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

theplowmeister;950185 said:


> WOW its amazing, many of the attributes credited to chain lift and or direct lift have NOTHING to do with the lifting system but with other design aspects of the plow.
> 
> like saying; I have a V8 and I have a 6 cyl truck. I like the 6 cyl much better, because the windows go up much easier.


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## Stik208 (Oct 19, 2004)

I am looking forward to the Xtreme V direct lift from 2Cor.


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## andcon83 (Dec 10, 2005)

My xtreme v doesn't bounce at all when going down the road. It lifts up against two stops that holds it tight.


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## kramer56 (Oct 13, 2006)

basher;950478 said:


> Turn off the down Pressure:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


It is not on but it feels like it is sometimes especially when it diggs in the stones, I even turn it on to see if truck lifts a bit that way i know if its on. I am getting new tires today so i will readjust the plow tower maybe thats whats messin me up since last season I had the torsion bars cranked up higher than this year so maybe the plow is not setup rhight yet. I will keep you posted on that.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

I was just busting your chops.

Is your hinge square to the ground (level) when attached to the truck? 
Having the top of the hinge too far forward will put excessive weight on the "nose."
Get a level and a wrench (1 1/8" or 10" adjustable) and use the adjuster to level it. 
Do it with the truck sitting on the ground loaded with ballast as if getting ready to plow.

It's simple to do just throw a level to the center hinge. I love this feature, I can change the the blade quickly during a storm to maintain full blade contact as my truck's weight center changes. I carry a torpedo level and a 1 1/8" wrench, if I notice my blade starting to lift its wing tips or drop its "nose" as I dump/add material (or pickup snow weight) I throw the level on the steel center deflector and correct the hinge position, it only take a moment to change.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Stik208;950831 said:


> I am looking forward to the Xtreme V direct lift from 2Cor.


Oh boy. Me and my big mouth......

I hope to have it done before the end of the season.



andcon83;950983 said:


> My xtreme v doesn't bounce at all when going down the road. It lifts up against two stops that holds it tight.


Pulling it tight against the bump stops will stop the bouncing when traveling. But come April and it's almost 40 degrees out you may find you have to carry the blade down low to help keep the engine cool.

The bouncing problem is more when plowing a rough surface. Even hitting a crack in the hot top just right will send the blade shooting up in the air.


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## G&T LAWN (Nov 7, 2009)

I have both and the one benefit to the chain lift is that it will stack snow alot higher.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

.


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

G&T LAWN;951560 said:


> I have both and the one benefit to the chain lift is that it will stack snow alot higher.


I'm gonna have to politely disagree with that statement. I plowed in the same lot with an
8'2" boss v this past storm (I was in a truck with an 8'6" western V) and his piles were noticably taller. With this experience I would adamantly disagree that a direct lift doesnt stack as high as a chain lift. You'll see soon enough when he posts pictures (stroker79) of his piles from this last storm.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

WilliamOak;951577 said:


> I'm gonna have to politely disagree with that statement. I plowed in the same lot with an
> 8'2" boss v this past storm (I was in a truck with an 8'6" western V) and his piles were noticably taller. With this experience I would adamantly disagree that a direct lift doesnt stack as high as a chain lift. You'll see soon enough when he posts pictures (stroker79) of his piles from this last storm.


Wouldn't the 2 plows have to be on the same truck to compare?


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

In the perfect situation most certinly yes, but it was close nonetheless. His truck sits noticably higher but not enough to make up the difference between the size of the piles.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

cretebaby;951580 said:


> Wouldn't the 2 plows have to be on the same truck to compare?


And have similar bumpstop settings?

My dealer put the long stops on the XV this past fall, I can't stack for crap right now. I need to cut about an inch and a half off them.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

WilliamOak;951588 said:


> In the perfect situation most certinly yes, but it was close nonetheless. His truck sits noticably higher but not enough to make up the difference between the size of the piles.


Did you ever find any plowing work where you go to school?


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

No and to be honest I didnt really persue it either. The thought of frequently driving ~130 miles with the plow on didnt sit too well for me or my front end. lol

I jumped the gun a little thinking I could even really plow while in school with #1 not really knowing my way around AT ALL and #2 I really dont want to do anything to jepordize my grades right now.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

WilliamOak;951629 said:


> No and to be honest I didnt really persue it either. The thought of frequently driving ~130 miles with the plow on didnt sit too well for me or my front end. lol
> 
> I jumped the gun a little thinking I could even really plow while in school with #1 not really knowing my way around AT ALL and #2 I really dont want to do anything to jepordize my grades right now.


Good Plan. 

I bet you know your way around second street though.


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

lol, that I do!


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

Stacking is irrelevant. Tractors, backhoes, skiddy's and loaders are for stacking snow. Trucks are for pushing snow.


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

rsvees;951654 said:


> Stacking is irrelevant. Tractors, backhoes, skiddy's and loaders are for stacking snow. Trucks are for pushing snow.


Tell that to a prop. manager who is stuck with a bill for bringing the skid/tractor/backhoe in to stack snow that could have easily been piled up and over the curb with a truck. If the plow lifts for transport why not do the same at the end of a run? Theres definitely a difference though between stacking and just ramming into the pile.


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## stroker79 (Dec 2, 2006)

cretebaby;951580 said:


> Wouldn't the 2 plows have to be on the same truck to compare?


There really shouldnt be any difference. They are both superduties and both diesel. My truck has a mild lift, maybe 3.5-4"s but the boss frame is at 15" which is the required height from boss. So truck height should make no difference since the push beam is the same height when my truck was stock. My 99 is stock height but it is pretty low.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

rsvees;951654 said:


> Stacking is irrelevant. Tractors, backhoes, skiddy's and loaders are for stacking snow. Trucks are for pushing snow.


Depends on your situation. If you have just a few commercial accounts separated by several miles, it's cheaper to stack with your pickup than to get a loader to all those locations.


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## kramer56 (Oct 13, 2006)

cretebaby;951623 said:


> Did you ever find any plowing work where you go to school?


Now thats funny I don't care who u are. lmao


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

kramer56;951836 said:


> Now thats funny I don't care who u are. lmao


What is funny about it???


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## kramer56 (Oct 13, 2006)

basher;951178 said:


> I was just busting your chops.
> 
> Is your hinge square to the ground (level) when attached to the truck?
> Having the top of the hinge too far forward will put excessive weight on the "nose."
> ...


Go ahead bust away I love that crap but you will get it tho so be ready for that. lol

So you use a level then ok I will do that too I have used a framing square like the manual says but I will use both today since I put new tires on the truck and they are bigger than the last set so in the garage it goes for the setup. lol

As for the snow wieght how the hell can you keep the snow from sticking to the blade skin man I have a ton of it on there and it affects the throwing of it while windrowing.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Fluid Film??


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## kramer56 (Oct 13, 2006)

Ok so i have the aerosol in the grey can with red top will that work? and I just spray on and wipe off or spray on and leave it.


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

kramer56;952505 said:


> Ok so i have the aerosol in the grey can with red top will that work? and I just spray on and wipe off or spray on and leave it.


To be quite honest I havent heard of many people having great success with FF as far as snow sticking to the plow goes. Dont get me wrong its a GREAT product and I love the stuff, if you want to keep your plow rust free go for it because it will do that 100%.


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## kramer56 (Oct 13, 2006)

Well i need to keep that crap from sticking to it. It drives me crazy to see the plow loaded with snow stuck to it and it doesn't need any more weight trust me.


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## WilliamOak (Feb 11, 2008)

Then hell, give it a shot. You really don't have anything to loose by trying it.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

A friend of mine (yes I have a friend) heats up his tractor bucket and melts wax onto the bucket. He says it last all winter.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

If the FF doesn't work out, try a good auto wax. Then spray with silicone before each storm.


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## andcon83 (Dec 10, 2005)

We used to put diesel fuel in dump bodies so the snow would come out.


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## schmol (Nov 30, 2008)

I have also tried using diesel in equipment buckets and it does work................for a while.


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