# Excessive ice



## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

We have an account that has an excessive ice problem. Everyday it returns, we can spend hours chipping and soaking it in salt all for it to return the next day. Icicles are bad as well. Does anyone have a suggestion for this? We know the cause but we can not control it other than completely removing all the snow from the roof


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Document the problem, report it to management, and tell them to invest in some gutters.

Let me guess...the building faces North also?


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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

They have gutters. The property manager knows about the issue and they pay extra for it. It' is a royal pain to deal with. Tryin to see if the collective hive of us have a decent idea to make my life easier.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Make life easier? Heated sidewalk in that portion. Practical? You and the property owner/manager will have to decide that.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

So if it has gutters, why the ice still?
Are the gutters full of ice too and that's why?
My first suggestion would be heat tape in the gutter trough. That might be enough without putting it along the roof edge also.

My second (more expensive) thought would be to cut the concrete out along there, put in a recessed drain with a metal grate over it the entire length.
A heated concrete solution would still need some kind of drain or you're just moving the problem to another area.


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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

jonniesmooth said:


> So if it has gutters, why the ice still?
> Are the gutters full of ice too and that's why?
> My first suggestion would be heat tape in the gutter trough. That might be enough without putting it along the roof edge also.
> 
> ...


They have heat wire along the roof. This place is ridiculous the gutters drain out onto the parking lot.. I'm at a loss.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Fill pantyhose with salt and place them in the gutters. It will be salt water running off the roof but the ice will be far less. I have an account with a metal roof below are stairs and a handicap ramp. Pantyhose is how u solved it. Ps cut the top off a cone to make a big funnel to fill them


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

welder1122 said:


> They have heat wire along the roof. This place is ridiculous the gutters drain out onto the parking lot.. I'm at a loss.[


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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

fireside said:


> Fill pantyhose with salt and place them in the gutters. It will be salt water running off the roof but the ice will be far less. I have an account with a metal roof below are stairs and a handicap ramp. Pantyhose is how u solved it. Ps cut the top off a cone to make a big funnel to fill them


I will see about this idea


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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

Heat wrappng the downspouts?

If they are freezing and backING up the gutters? 

Any thoughts


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

So is all the from re-freeze from the downspouts, or do you get any direct dripping, or sliding ice/snow breaking off?


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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

Metal roof,
Melt off to gutters that freeze up, drips off gutters make deadly icicles. Drips on sidewalk.

Down spouts run into two flower beds, than on to parking lot, and two drop straight onto the parking lot, all 4 create sheets of ice. 

Sand salt keeps that problem at bay. 


The sidewalKS are my main concern


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Any snow fence on the roof, or do the gutters stick up above the bottom plane of the roof?

Standing seam or screw down?


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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

Snow fence with ice Dam wire, and I believe it's standing seam


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

welder1122 said:


> Metal roof,
> Melt off to gutters that freeze up, drips off gutters make deadly icicles. Drips on sidewalk.
> 
> Down spouts run into two flower beds, than on to parking lot, and two drop straight onto the parking lot, all 4 create sheets of ice.
> ...


Pantyhose again make a dike at the down spout. The water runs thur the pantyhose wham salt brine it keeps it slushed. Magic salt does work much better.


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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

fireside said:


> Pantyhose again make a dike at the down spout. The water runs thur the pantyhose wham salt brine it keeps it slushed. Magic salt does work much better.


How often do you change them


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I change them when the salts empty or dissolved.if it not to much running water ever 4 or 5 days. It also depends on how full you make them I go around 3" or so


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

One side note when you fill them put the empty pantyhose in a 5 gallon pail. Than fill it. Less chance of getting a run! Lol


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

fireside said:


> One side note when you fill them put the empty pantyhose in a 5 gallon pail. Than fill it. Less chance of getting a run! Lol


Take a few picture next time you put them in the gutter. I'm not quite understanding how it doesn't just clog up the gutters


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I have used burlap bags, in a small town I don't need everyone telling my wife about all the pantyhose im buying...
Also caution cones would be a good idea...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Heated mats?

I think someone makes them yet.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Have you considered laying a gutter on the ground and putting a brick on one end to give it some rise and just letting it drain somewhere else


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Mr.Markus said:


> I have used burlap bags, in a small town I don't need everyone telling my wife about all the pantyhose im buying...
> Also caution cones would be a good idea...


 My guess is the gutters are full and frozen already. It's running over the top and making the solid line of ice on the ground. I used to use burlap bags just like sandbags put I can't find them very easily anymore. I would like to show you a picture if it would get cold enough to snow here not rain everyother day.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

welder1122 said:


> Heat wrappng the downspouts?
> 
> If they are freezing and backING up the gutters?
> 
> Any thoughts


Yes, you need a heat tape in the gutter trough and out the down spout.. put a length of pvc pipe to direct to water where you want it, with heat tape the whole way and about 12" out the end.

The pantyhose is a good idea too. Lay them along the dripping area to create brine, makes it easier to get it off.


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## Schoenberg Salt (Sep 30, 2011)

@welder1122

We carry a product called roofmelt. It's a calcium tablet you throw up on the roof to melt through ice dams. If the problem is small/localized to down spouts you might be able to find a bucket locally, for a pallet feel free to contact us at 800-221-5105.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Heated mats?
> 
> I think someone makes them yet.


I think someone would steal them yet.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)




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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

I think the heat tape on the roof is adding to your issue. When the ambient temperature is below freezing, the heat tape provides a nice supply of meltwater to refreeze elsewhere (gutters, parking lot). If the customer doesn't need it on for some other reason, I would turn it off on the roof. Just let the amount that is naturally melting due to solar radiation and ambient temperature come down. I think heat tape on the gutter itself, where the icicles are forming, would be beneficial (at least in reducing icicles).

On my hangars, there is a problem on the north facing side, but it is probably about 10% of what you have there. There are no gutters on the hangar building as there is no place for downspouts. I may put some on this summer, and just let the gutters carry the meltwater 160 feet or so to the building end.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

fireside said:


> My guess is the gutters are full and froze already. It's running over the top and making the solid line of ice on the ground. I used to use burlap bags just like sandbags put I can't find them very easily anymore. I would like to show you a picture if it would get cold enough to snow here not rain everyother day.


Feed mills, or farm feed store...

I have tried the roof melt tablets, they will not suffice.
I have a few properties that are designed badly, actual gutters in the pavement that the eavestrough flow into under the sidewalk and flood the whole parking lot during thaws when ground temps freeze it. Freezing rain is worse cause it washes all treatment off the parking lot









.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

fireside said:


> Fill pantyhose with salt and place them in the gutters. It will be salt water running off the roof but the ice will be far less. I have an account with a metal roof below are stairs and a handicap ramp. Pantyhose is how u solved it. Ps cut the top off a cone to make a big funnel to fill them


Have used seed sacks filled with salt bafore


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Aerospace Eng said:


> I think the heat tape on the roof is adding to your issue. When the ambient temperature is below freezing, the heat tape provides a nice supply of meltwater to refreeze elsewhere (gutters, parking lot). If the customer doesn't need it on for some other reason, I would turn it off on the roof. Just let the amount that is naturally melting due to solar radiation and ambient temperature come down. I think heat tape on the gutter itself, where the icicles are forming, would be beneficial (at least in reducing icicles).
> 
> On my hangars, there is a problem on the north facing side, but it is probably about 10% of what you have there. There are no gutters on the hangar building as there is no place for downspouts. I may put some on this summer, and just let the gutters carry the meltwater 160 feet or so to the building end.


Yes, if you have tape on the roof it is exacerbating the situation.
I am not familiar with heat tape and metal roofs.
On a asphalt shingle roof you zig zag the roof tape, so it makes small loops down into the gutter. You clip these loops to the second tape that runs in the trough. 
The water will follow the string.
Our house faces south, and gets good sun, when it shines in the winter.
It can be 5° in Feb. with good sun and our roof will be melting.
Got to turn the heat tape on so it can warm up, it's like in floor heat, it takes awhile to get up to temp.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Why don’t you keep a boss salt cube on site


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

m_ice said:


> Have used seed sacks filled with salt bafore


Seems far more manly than pantyhose...


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Seems far more manly than pantyhose...


 When life was much simpler I got all the stocking I wanted for free! They were warm when they got dropped off on my steering wheel!! Oh well

Lol


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## aclawn (Oct 17, 2009)




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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

Well I'm out and at it again, yesterday I dropped sand salt on the ice for the day, at close I went out and dropped 5, 5 allon buckets worth of salt on the side walks, (building normally would take 2 to cover all the walkways). I went back a few hours later and added another 3 buckets to that one trouble side..

This morning I broke up what I could and now I'm chipping with my ground breaker.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Schoenberg Salt said:


> @welder1122
> 
> We carry a product called roofmelt. It's a calcium tablet you throw up on the roof to melt through ice dams. If the problem is small/localized to down spouts you might be able to find a bucket locally, for a pallet feel free to contact us at 800-221-5105.


I don't think you want to use a corrosive product on a steel roof.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Seems far more manly than pantyhose...


Ya you would look good going in and buying pantyhose. Try explaining that you need them to melt ice to the cashier that gives you a strange look lol.


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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

EWSplow said:


> I don't think you want to use a corrosive product on a steel roof.


No I don' plan on it. The gutters is questionable.

Its really getting old, but I have been told this place gas never looked this good.....


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

aclawn said:


> View attachment 177799


I tried that once, Not so good.


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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

FredG said:


> I tried that once, Not so good.


It didn' work as you would of thought?

Did the concrete pop?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

welder1122 said:


> It didn' work as you would of thought?
> 
> Did the concrete pop?


No it didn't bother the concrete just to slow. I think salt could of melted it faster.


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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

FredG said:


> No it didn't bother the concrete just to slow. I think salt could of melted it faster.


My concern was over heating the concrete and it popping.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

welder1122 said:


> My concern was over heating the concrete and it popping.


Of course, no concern of burning the place to the ground and solving the problem completely....


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

welder1122 said:


> My concern was over heating the concrete and it popping.


My Propane wand set up will blow cold blacktop out of the back of a 10' dump truck box with the box all the way up from the ground. It throws some flame. Ice don't melt as quick as one might think with fire to it.

I have only tried it once and found out a turtle trowing salt would be faster. I understand concrete and did not pop,


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

Fill a bucket with salt, poke holes, lead gutter extension into bucket. 

Also leave buckets by their door, charge them to refil, for them to throw a little.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

cjames808 said:


> Fill a bucket with salt, poke holes, lead gutter extension into bucket.
> 
> Also leave buckets by their door, charge them to refil, for them to throw a little.


You serious Homer, That's spoon feeding, He has to have responsibility for his junk building? Cost me a fortune when my bathroom addition dammed up due to the :terribletowel:I hired to do it when built. If it dams up to bad it could find it's way in the building. A PO is responsible for maintaining there building not the snow contractor. I can't imagine how they maintain there vehicles etc if they don't want to fix roof, Gutter and insulation issues.

I own enough property to know this is a issue that has to be repaired. If you don't have funds for capital improvement you can't blame it on anybody else. The insurance company looks at our property's. Issues like this among others you could get cancelled which I'm sure any property owner can do without.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Furthermore there is Guys making a living shoveling, snow blowing etc off of roofs.


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## On a Call (Jan 14, 2015)

welder1122 said:


> We have an account that has an excessive ice problem. Everyday it returns, we can spend hours chipping and soaking it in salt all for it to return the next day. Icicles are bad as well. Does anyone have a suggestion for this? We know the cause but we can not control it other than completely removing all the snow from the roof
> View attachment 177743
> View attachment 177745
> 
> ...


I have the exact same issue on one site.
My suggestion is to clean off the slope/roof with a snow rake while the it is still snow.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

FredG said:


> Furthermore there is Guys making a living shoveling, snow blowing etc off of roofs.


Exactly!


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)




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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

EWSplow said:


> View attachment 177845
> [/QUOTE
> I went through the bank drive through and noticed this . No chance of excessive ice on that shrub.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Hope it don't die. I would not spread that close to a bed. Watch your spread could avoid that.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

FredG said:


> Hope it don't die. I would not spread that close to a bed. Watch your spread could avoid that.


Yews don't like salt.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

FredG said:


> Hope it don't die. I would not spread that close to a bed. Watch your spread could avoid that.


Not my account. I was doing banking. Thought this would be a good training pic.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

welder1122 said:


> It didn' work as you would of thought?
> 
> Did the concrete pop?


I have a few of those torches, and like Fred said, they are slow on solid ice. Most of the heat is going upwards, naturally. It's hard to attack ice from the top with anything.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

jomama45 said:


> I have a few of those torches, and like Fred said, they are slow on solid ice. Most of the heat is going upwards, naturally. It's hard to attack ice from the top with anything.


I used my torch twice this season. I had the sidewalk 95% down to pavement, but some stubborn stalagmites about 1.5" x 1" tall, that the salt wouldn't sit on top of to melt. 
I saw an article in the Farmshow magazine for a garden weeding torch.
Think high wheel hand truck, with a 80 gal. Tank and 4 adjustable torches.
I was tempted to make one myself , they want like $8-900 for theirs.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yews don't like salt.





Mark Oomkes said:


> Yews don't like salt.


Good opportunity to sell them on a plant upgrade when All there Yews are dead.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yews don't like salt.


I think if it says "Pareve" on the salt it's OK for them.

Disregard, you said "yews".................


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

I saw a couple guys dealing with excessive ice this morning. They're making money from other's mistakes.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

EWSplow said:


> I saw a couple guys dealing with excessive ice this morning. They're making money from other's mistakes.
> View attachment 177942


Good for them! I been payed to put a band aid on before, If they wanted me to do it, they would be paying for a man lift lol Thumbs Up


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

I wish I could make money from my mistakes. Apparently, I pulled a trailer a mile or so in the snow on Sunday with a flat . Rebeading it now.


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## welder1122 (Nov 11, 2011)

EWSplow said:


> I wish I could make money from my mistakes. Apparently, I pulled a trailer a mile or so in the snow on Sunday with a flat . Rebeading it now.


Better than when I pulled a trip axle trailer like 2 miles with the brakes locked up. The 500 ponies under the hood didn' even notice


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