# Need some experienced help



## tkettel (Nov 4, 2015)

I'm going to ask the dreaded Walmart questions and would appreciate only helpful feedback. I am a 16 month old landscape material supply store in Northern Colorado and we had about 3 snow events last year worth talking about. I have 7 plus years plowing, but only the few events from last year running a full site, as I have usually just subbed myself and a skid on hourly.

I have been asked by a customer to look at plowing 2 Walmarts and a Sam's which is right next door to one of the Walmarts as well as a big shopping complex. I haven't calculated the shopping complex as I don't know what the scope of that is.

The Walmart by Sams is 16.30 acres and the Sams is 10 acres. The solo Walmart is 11 acres. They are within 10 miles of each other. My biggest stumbling block is I am being offered a guaranteed seasonal on these properties. Last year we would have made out great. This year the predictions are for lots of snow. I don't have the final numbers yet which is really frustrating as we should be prepping and setting up crews now. I have already asked for a mix of hourly and seasonal between the properties. The shopping plaza is located right between these locations.

My questions are:
If I am already subbing for someone will I have room to sub someone underneath me? The numbers thrown at me a few weeks ago were around $4k per location a month, from October through May. If that is the case I would be looking at $96,000 minus expense. As tomorrow is October 1st I'm realistically thinking it may be 7 months $84,000 minus expense. I would expect that a couple of those months to be zero to a couple events and then after the beginning of the year up to the early spring months to possibly have more and bigger events. The benefit about spring storms in Colorado is you can be pushing water by the end of the storm and usually no deicer or cleanup is needed.
What do you guys who have played with Wally World think the primary contractor is getting as a seasonal amount based on the $4k he is offering me. I think he wants to do me right as we are 2 vets who have worked some other jobs together and we have a deal worked out where he will be getting discounted pricing on my bulk and bagged material for all of his other properties.

Last year I plowed a huge Sam's in Denver and we did it with either 2 skids with push boxes or one skid with occasional help from a plow truck and 3 shovelers, no atv. These were light snowfalls. What should I have on site or available to handle the big or extended snowfalls? With the offset hours and being right next door can I handle both a Sams and Walmart with one skid, 2 dedicated trucks, a non-dedicated truck, a atv and 5 shovelers for the big storms? My plan is to handle the Walmart/Sams combo with my own equipment and staff which keeps my operating expense as low as possible and sub out the other Walmart and shopping plaza which we can supplement as needed from my staff and crew. I will be handling all of the de-icer with my 550 dodge and a 2-3 yard spreader and will be keeping bagged and bulk material on site for reloading.I am using a formula I found on here about a plow truck being capable of about 1 hour per acre. I don't have any formulas for skids with push boxes and shovelers. The going rate here is $20/hr for shovelers, $75/hr for a plow truck, $100/hr for a skid with push box, $25/hr for operators.


As a landscape supply store, I already have pretty good insurance coverage, but after reading some of the Walmart threads I am going to verify my coverage. But what I think may help me is I already have some of the equipment, insurance, labor and any product I put down will be at my cost. My goal is really to just generate enough income to keep the lights on and 3 yearly employees on staff during the winter, any profit will be a bonus. 

I am going to try and attach pics of the 3 properties. If there is anything else I should attach or provide I will try to do so asap.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Do you have enough equipment to service the sites? You can not easily move the equipment 10 miles back and forth during big storms.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Randall Ave said:


> Do you have enough equipment to service the sites? You can not easily move the equipment 10 miles back and forth during big storms.


Sites are just under 5miles from each other but you have to go through town and they're just far enough away to trailer skids.
I agree more equipment is needed since I know where the stores are and seen the lots. I think a pusher box and pickup is a minimum for the Wally World on the north end and a pusher box and 2 pickups for Wally World and Sams with the 550 spreading each lot. I'd reconsider using Skids and look at small wheel loaders for visibility and production reasons.
I know a couple guys that use to work that market, one use to do the State Farm building and the Mall. His biggest issue was finding shovel labor, there was a lot of no shows and ones that did show fizzled out after a couple hours.


----------



## tkettel (Nov 4, 2015)

Thanks Buff, I’d be interested if we know the same guy that did State Farm. The subs I want to bring in all have skids and trucks. I’d like to use my compact loader but I need to keep it back at my yard for bulk salt sales. So I don’t think equipment will be an issue and my full timer lives within a mile of one of the stores and has family that are in trades that don’t work in bad weather. Unfortunately because of the uncertainty of what I’m taking on, I haven’t secured the laborers yet. Do you see any major flaws in my thoughts based on your knowledge of the area?


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I can only go by the numbers you provided but roughly $2600/acre per season sounds way low to me..
But I'm in an area that sees 25+ plows a season and 50+ saltings. Average events are ok to use but there is daily monitoring to consider for these sites as well.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

tkettel said:


> Thanks Buff, I'd be interested if we know the same guy that did State Farm. The subs I want to bring in all have skids and trucks. I'd like to use my compact loader but I need to keep it back at my yard for bulk salt sales. So I don't think equipment will be an issue and my full timer lives within a mile of one of the stores and has family that are in trades that don't work in bad weather. Unfortunately because of the uncertainty of what I'm taking on, I haven't secured the laborers yet. Do you see any major flaws in my thoughts based on your knowledge of the area?


They guy I know that did SF was from Keensburg, it was him and his brother and I believe they were subs. I think he stopped doing SF about 2seasons ago due to a difference in opinions that resulted in getting lawyers involved. My buddy has since bought a hay farm in SE Wyoming and I think he maybe doing snow work in Torrington.
Guess I didn't pickup on you're a sub and bringing in subs, Who ever has the contract is going to make there 25-30% off of you and you should make some off your subs. $96k may sound like a decent amount but I can't make those numbers work. If there was a cap on how many events plowing and salting in the contract say 14 plow and 20 for salt the numbers work beyond that any type of margin dwindles quickly. 
Have you priced and ordered bulk for the season? Most our salt comes from Utah however with talk of shortages in the Midwest driving up prices and demand there's a good chance salt will be shipped to the Midwest affecting availability and cost here. 
I'm sure you know from previous experience plowing retail during open hours is slow going, I hope you have a good trusting relationship with your sub so you don't get hosed by him when comes in with high hours. 
As you said in your opening post we had a real mild winter last year and Co weather being what it is who knows what this winter will be. Historically you don't get as much snow as areas closer to the Foothills, you get colder there though, dam cold at times.

Saw earlier there's talk of snow in about a week which made me laugh because the NWS has a hard time with what's 24hrs out but it is that time of year when snow is a reality.

So I didn't really answer any question, it's hard for me to saw what works or doesn't for someone else and all I can offer is a few things to think about.


----------

