# Decision Time,v Or Straight?



## BASIC (Dec 28, 2002)

Hi guys,I know this question has been asked before(once by me)but I have to make a decision by August(my dealer said thats when he can give me the best price) on what plow to buy.This will be my first year plowing,I have a Ford F-350 4X4,Reg Cab,Diesel,Manual Trans,Single Rear Wheel,8' Bed,with about 114,000 Miles on it.I'll be doing mostly residential to start.I live in a part of New Jersey that gets the most snow in the stste,last year we got about 80".The plow plow brand will be a Western(great dealer).The choices I have are a V plow 8.5',straight Pro Plow 8'or Pro Plus Plow 8'.Western now has the option of a back drag blade for the Pro Plow(standard on the Pro Plus).From what I've read you all seem to favor the V plow,does this still hold true with the truck I have and my intended use?My dealer thinks for mostly residential is fine and that the V's benifit is seen in mostly commercial aplications,he also hasn't seen any problems with the V.Does the fact that Western now has a back drag blade available on therir straight blades factor in?Thankyou again for the help,BASIC.


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## BWhite (Sep 30, 2002)

*Hmm*

I will have to make the same decision . From what I can see the V isnt as durable as a straight plow and they weigh more . I think it may be over what the manufacturers want hung on the front of their trucks . The various configurations of the v plow is where it supposed to shine .


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## Chuck Smith (Dec 30, 1999)

I'll be the first to tell you that V plows don't back drag great. I will also be the first to tell you that no front plow will back drag as well as you would like it to. The condition of the pavement puts limitations on how well any plow will clear the surface, that goes for pushing and backdragging.

With that said, I would go for an 8.5' Western V. There's only 2 dealers up by you, and I know both of them. One, I know is top notch, and the other I have only dealt with twice, and they liked to jack up prices when they could. There is a third Western dealer, that is the only one I go to, but they are not in NW NJ, they are in Hackensack.

Even doing residentials, I would still go with the V plow. Like it was said before, a V plow can do everything that a straight plow can do, but a straight plow cannot do everything a V plow can do.

Just because you plan on doing only residentials, doesn't mean that is all you will be doing next year. Much like those who say they will only be plowing their own driveway, and end up doing 20 more the first year, and 50 the second.....

A straight plow allows you to move snow, either left or right, while a V plow will allow you to move all the snow ANY place on the property you want.

~Chuck


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## BASIC (Dec 28, 2002)

BWhite and Chuck,thanks for thr response.Chuck the dealer I've spoken to is Danforths,I've dealt with them on some small trailer parts and they seem real honest to me.thanks BASIC.


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## Chuck Smith (Dec 30, 1999)

Basic, when you know which plow you want... call Danforths and get a price. Then call Van Dines in Hackensack, and West Chester Machinery in Newton. Compare prices. I can tell you now Van Dines and West Chester will be within a few dollars of each other, if not the exact same price....

~Chuck


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I'd go with a straight blade.Less complicated,more reliable,and will do everything you want.Go with the Pro plus.Just my 2 cents.


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## BASIC (Dec 28, 2002)

Chuck,I think West Chester is in Flanders.I feel some loyalty in supporting my area buisnesses.Danforths would be the one I'd go crying to if something went wrong while plowing.There open 24 hours during a storm,yhe other two are just to far.I would also expect Danforths to service plows bought from them sooner then those bought elsewhere.Thankyou though just the same
wyldman.thanks for your response sir.I understand the V plow is more complicated in learning to use but I haven't heard anything bad about their reliability,what has been your experience?Thanks again,BASIC.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I have never owned a V-blade,but have driven many trucks with them on.I have also serviced and repaired many as well.I've used straight blades for almost 20 years,kinda find it hard to change to a V.

I have never found much of a benefit to a V for my application,and I can outplow most guys using a V with my straight blade.Only thing I find it better for is cleanup.Most of the V's I have tried have all been Boss units,which absolutely sucked for backdragging.They have Smartlock cylinders available to help,but I have never tried them.

The Western's and Fishers tend to bend and buckle a lot,but once beefed up some,they hold up OK.

I have seen very few hydraulic problems on the V's,mostly just dirty or frozen fluid due to lack of maintenance.

Your truck is a standard,and doing mostly residential.I think the straight blade would be easier to operate,and will be better for back dragging driveways.They are cheaper too.


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## Rooster (Dec 13, 1999)

Basic,

For years (too many to count at times  )

I used a straight plow, This past winter I bought a new truck, and purchased a new Boss V-plow.

BEST money I spent so far, cut my time by 30% the first snow.

The lots I plowed were: a 24 hour grocery store, hotel and convention center.

I did sit and practice awhile in my driveway. A V-plow takes some getting used to, but I feel it was worth it.

Rick


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## SLC1 (Jul 27, 2000)

I would go with a 8'6" V plow, you can do a lot of different stuff with a Vplow that you cant do with a straight Blade, True that a vplow doesnt plow long roads as good as a straight blade, but when it comes time to cleanup the end of a driveway or cleanup sections of a parking lot. In the long run the v plow is a better option. Just My two cents

www.schmidtlawncare.com


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

SLC1 - just checked out your website link.Very nice professional website,good work.


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## Lawn Lad (Feb 4, 2002)

Having plowed residential properties for the past 8 years I can appreciate how a straight blade does the job. This past winter when we replaced several trucks we bought three Boss v-blades, one for a residential route (8' 2") and two for commercial routes (9' 2"). This year we'll be buying two more v plows. Chuck is right that a straight blade won't work like a v blade, but a v blade will work like a straight blade.

This past winter was our first winter with v blades and we got a boat load of snow. There is increased training time for sure. The v blade isn't necessarily intuitive. 

I found that someone new to a v blade tries too hard to use the scoop function too much. When plowing open areas of parking lot it's best to straight blade. The scoop position is nice when you're trying to position snow piles and clean up. I cut my production time from a 1 hr property to about 35 to 42 minutes. I was amazed. 

I see a similar, but not as dramatic, pattern on residential. Cleaning up aprons or positioning snow with the scoop is nice. The V position will be good for long drives and heavy snow falls. 

I would buy the v blade, I just don't see where you can go wrong.


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## Chuck Smith (Dec 30, 1999)

> _Originally posted by wyldman _
> *SLC1 - just checked out your website link.Very nice professional website,good work. *


Why thank you  I still have to add a little more, but I like how it turned out too.

~Chuck


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## EIB (Oct 30, 2002)

I'd go with a V. I've had one for four years. I had to replace a blown hose. That was under warranty, and I have to put a repair harness on it, before this winter. I think that's good for four seasons. When I first bought it and got use to the controls, it saved me enough time, I went out and picked up more accounts.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I didn't know you did his website Chuck.It looks sweet.Nice work.


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

Having plowed with both straight and v blades (Fisher), I could never go back to a straight blade I'd have to buy a second truck to be able to do the work the V does. The Fisher back drags as well as a straight blade. If you have a blizzard dealer near I would take a serious look at their products. The V position, I only use opening roads, or deep drifts, most of the time it's in the scoop position, and the Blizzard should be as efficient for moving snow plus the extra width would also decrease plow time.
I'm looking at buying a blizzard for this season, I think it's the next step forward in snowplow evolution.

Bill


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2003)

My signature will tell you my opinion   

Greg


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## phillyplowking1 (Dec 19, 2001)

One word Blizzard! Like nsmilligan said how often do u use the V position.My opinion is to consider a blizzard plow.


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## KenP (Oct 4, 2002)

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Enough said!


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## Aspen Snow (Aug 6, 2000)

Hey Basic,

Are you in Sussex County? I am guessing that you are! If you are talking to Danforth's, they are great. There price might be a few dollars more, but in a storm they will always be there for you. We have been dealing with them for at least ten years now. If you are looking to do some sub work let me know?


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## BASIC (Dec 28, 2002)

Thankyou all for your help.Aspen Snow,yes sir I might be very interested in sub work,thankyou.I'm glad you think well of Danforth's,the few dealings I've had with them have been great.Sir sice your well aware of the conditions in Sussex county,how do you fell about my straight or V question?Please let me know when you'd like to talk about the sub-contracting,BASIC.


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## Plow Babe (Feb 4, 2003)

We started off with straight blades, then discovered wings, which sped us up tremendously. Then last season we used our first V-blade, and the jump in efficiency was again huge. This year, our new plow will be a Blizzard. We are still using our Boss 8.5 straight blade, but it will have wings on it. And Steve will continue to use the V-blade on his skid steer.

It sounds like you have a dealer that you trust and that will give you good customer support. If not for that, I would say go with a Blizzard. If you are set on the Western, I would suggest the V.

As far as reliability, the only problem we had with ours was some welds breaking, but that was not a problem with the blade - we retrofit a 7.5 into an 11.5 on the skid steer, and at first had not made it beefy enough. Once we got the design strong enough, it did fine.

And if you do end up with some jobs other than driveways, say some apartments or commercial lots, then you definitely will want the V. Don't rule it out - we started off doing strictly driveways, and that is still a huge part of our business, but we are also doing commercial work now, and it is a very nice income stream. If you have the V plow, you will be better equipped for whatever work may come your way.

If you do decide to go with the straight blade, consider getting some wings. I ran our F250 with the Boss 8.5 super duty straight blade and a set of Pro-Wings, so had about 10' of width. I don't know if that would work in your climate (our snow is mostly fluffy), but with a 350, I wouldn't think it would be a problem for your truck to handle. And you can always take them off for deep snow.

Once you decide and get it set up, post some pictures for us


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## slplow (May 13, 2001)

If all you are going to plow now are driveway's, then get the straight blade. Your cliants will want there driveway black and you won't get black with a V. Unless you get a pull plow. Seing that your truck has alot of miles on it, you may only keep it a few more years and want a new truck. By then you might have some comm work then get a v. 
I have a straight blade w/ a back drag blade on it on my truck that only does drives and it get's down to pavement. I do wish I got a V for my dump that only does comm work .


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

Maybe this is a stupid question, but why wont a V plow get down to pavement as good as a straight blade? Whatever the reason is, how about if you put the V plow in straight mode like a straight plow, still wont do as clean a job? Mike


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

A lot of the V's leave little trails,from where the wings meet in the center.Uneven carbide wear due to plowing in the V or scoop position can cause poor scraping.The V's also don't tend to float side to side as much,so again,they don't scrape as well.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by slplow _
> *If all you are going to plow now are driveway's, then get the straight blade. Your cliants will want there driveway black and you won't get black with a V. *


  I don't seem to have any problem getting driveways black

Greg


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## KenP (Oct 4, 2002)

I have a Western V. Last year was my first year with it. It cleaned as good if not better then my old str8 blade. Not even a trail up the middle


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

Dockboy, yea thats because you bend down on the driveway and breathe real heavy on the leftover snow tryin to make it melt! I heard you dont do that anymore though, since some lady looked out her window, saw you down on your hands and knees in her driveway breathin heavy and decided it was time to find a new plow guy.  Mike


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## slplow (May 13, 2001)

To answer mike's ? You can't put back-drag blade on a V. You can back drag with any plow but one with a back drag is alot faster.


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

Hey Wyldman your the only other person who's mentioned carbides, I use Carbide edges on my V , you to?

BIll


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

I use the municipal grade carbide edges,like the DOT uses.They are thicker and longer lasting than the original equipment edges.U edges are too costly around here.


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

Same with me, but the u edges have their place, I'm not convinced of wear, I find it's about the same as a steel edge, nowhere near a carbide, but check these guys out, met them at the Quebec APWA show, they're in Cambridge Ont Performance Polymers Inc 1-888-222-5968 they will supply polyrethane edges at Canadian Prices 

Bill


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Thanks Bill,I'll check them out.

I usually buy the 14 ft X 5/8 DOT carbides for about $150.00,and cut them down to 9 FT.I sell the left overs to weld onto bobcat buckets and stuff,and make my money back,plus the labour to fit them.

A carbide usually lasts me 2-3 seasons at 250-400 hrs a season before it gets to much of a smilee to scrape well.Can beat the durability.

Are some guys just using mild steel edges out there ? I could see why they would wear so quickly then.


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

The ones I found are 4' lengths so for the V blade I cut one for the inside edges next to the center, and even though the V 's are harder on edges, I get about the same wear as you

Bill


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

I run the carbides as well. The scraping chracteristics are superb and they wear excellent

I will not comment much on the U-edges.

Before I got carbides I also experimented with thicker mild steel. Lasted longer but added a lot of weight to the trip edge. Maybe it would work on a full trip blade. Many people here are sold wider steel edges for Fisher plows. They buy 8" wide edges and then destroy the trip edge.


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## szorno (Jan 3, 2002)

Hey KenP,
tell us how you really feel...

A rookie plower would do better to learn on a straight and graduate to a V. In my humble but most accurate opinion...


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

I had a rookie plower this yr work for me. he worked one storm on the straight western,th4en hopped into the Ram with the Boss V,it took him about 4 hrs to fully adjust,once he got used to it,he didnt want to plow with the western straight anymore. . So i got him a western V ,for the GMC,which reduced plowing time quite a bit.


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## BASIC (Dec 28, 2002)

Thankyou all again for the great response.How much more difficult will it be to use a V than a straight,with a manual trans?Thankyou,BASIC.


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

I used a Fisher-V on a F-450 with manual trans for an hour or so this winter,i personally didn't like it but the guy who runs the truck has no real issues running the trans/plow combo.


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## Rooster (Dec 13, 1999)

If you have good knees, you might do okay.

Rick


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## PINEISLAND1 (Dec 21, 1999)

I didn't post on this subject this time for all this time, showing great restraint! However, I finally had to say something.....

Although it happens on occasion, most folks who have a V will never return to a straight blade, and will tell you that over and over again. There is an exception or two on Plowsite. 

I cannot imagine the lost productivity if I went back to a straight blade, with the exception of a Blizzard 810 or 8611.

I have never know anyone who had any issues with scraping clean or backblading clean with a V, and considering my 9'2" Boss weighs almost 1000 lbs, it scrapes quite well.

If a V leaves snow in the center, there is a problem with the snowcatcher or the rubber in between, period.

I could survive with a straight blade, but it would be a miserable existence.


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## BWhite (Sep 30, 2002)

*Fisher V*

Fisher has an 8"6' V at 808# and a 9"6' V at 870 # Which one would be best on an 03 2500 Hemi with a 500# snowman backplow and doing 100% residential . I am thinking the 8'6"


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## BASIC (Dec 28, 2002)

Thankyou all again for the help.I stoped by the dealer today and found out there's about an $800 price difference between the V and straight.The dealer still thinks I'd be fine with the straight plow,especially with the new back drag blade.To make the choice even tougher he now carries Fisher in addition to Western.I'm still unshure.I'm going to post a question about the differences between Western and Fisher.Thanks,BASIC


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## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

Fisher and Western are very similar, they are both owned by Douglas Dynamics, LLC. The difference between them is the trip edge and full trip blade. Fisher has 6" trip edge, which is the base edge (bottom edge of plow), that trips when unmovable object is hit. I really like this design because it keep the main moldboard up and straight, keeping pushing the snow while the trip edge do its job. Western plows has full trip blade, which mean the whole moldboard will trip forward when unmovable object is hit. I believe that all V plows has trip edge, regardless of make. Because if you have the V plow in scoop postion and if the plow hit unmovable object, both blades would slap each other, which would make sense to have trip edge. 

Another difference is the angle of attack. Fisher plows (except for X-Blade) have a nice curl design which would helps rolls the snow better with less friction. Western has higher angle of attack, which probably is better for scraping and breaking up ice. 

Also each of them have their own mounting design. I cannot comment on Western since I never own or tried them in person, but I owned a Minute Mount plow. It is a good mount design, and with the new Minute Mount 2, it should be even much easier. 

In my opinion, both Fisher and Western are very good plows. If you said that your dealer sells both of them, I would choose Fisher.


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## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

BWhite - I would go with the 8.5' V plow. It should be sufficient for that truck. Also there are stories about cracks and creases problems on 9.5' V plows which you should avoid. Do a search - there has been a thead about them.


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## BWhite (Sep 30, 2002)

*Big E*

I will be making my yearly trip to the "BIG E" in Springfield Ma. this Sept . This expo has many vendors of snow removal equipment . I picked up my Snoman backplow there last year .


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## BASIC (Dec 28, 2002)

In a 8.5 V plow is the Western a better choice than the Fisher,BASIC?


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BASIC _
> *In a 8.5 V plow is the Western a better choice than the Fisher,BASIC? *


Strictly operator preference,do you want a full trip blade or trip edge,that's all it boils down to. MY preference is trip edge.


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## BASIC (Dec 28, 2002)

Arc Burn,sir why do you prefer the trip edge?Are both the Western and the Fisher V plows trip edge?Does the cracking problem on Fisher V plows only effect the 9.5 blade?Thankyou for your helo sir,BASIC.


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

The Western MVP and Fisher V are both trip edge plows,i jumped the gun on my response alittle 
The major cracking and creases are mostly seen on the 9.5's,there are a number of them out there though which haven't had any problems.I have never seen a problem with the 8.5".
As for the Edge vs Full blade trip,i feel the trip edge scrapes better in my application,this is only my opinion as the guys who run full trip blades have nothing but good to say about their set-ups.
BTW-please,no more "sir" stuff,your making me feel old


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## BASIC (Dec 28, 2002)

Ok no more sir.Do you also feel,as do many others on the forum that the V plow is the best choice,BASIC?


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## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

BASIC - Both Fisher and Western are having the same problems with creases. As far as I know of, Fisher 8.5' V only have crease problem, but the Fisher 9.5' have both cracks and creases problems. Western has the same problem. You really need to check out Chuck's FAQ page. There are tons of info. there. There is one thread on that FAQ that will explains the problems with Fisher and Western V plows. There are some threads about straight plow vs. V plow. Check that out too. 

Arc Burn - you are missing the biggest advantage of trip edge. What I like the best about them is that the main moldboard stay up straight continuing to push the snow while the trip edge do their job. If a full trip blade hit something, the whole thing will fold over and you will spill snow and would need to start over again.


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

To be 100% honest,and in time most others here WILL agree,the 810 Blizzard is simply the plow to beat.If your main goal is to carry snow with the scoop on a V plow,forget it and go with a Blizzard,there is no comaprison.
Sorry,your probably all confused now


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## BWhite (Sep 30, 2002)

*Blizzard 810*

it looks like a good plow but there isnt much of a dealer network here in Massachusetts


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## phillyplowking1 (Dec 19, 2001)

The Blizzard is really more productive because of the size of the scoop.Think about it how much do you use the V position ?


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## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

*Re: Blizzard 810*



> _Originally posted by BWhite _
> *it looks like a good plow but there isnt much of a dealer network here in Massachusetts *


Yep, same thing here. Like I said, if there was one nearby me, I would seriously consider them. But the biggest concern I would have is the weight of 810. I read the brochure from last year BBQ and it said that the complete setup is around 1000 pounds. Yow! 

I would think that anyone running a Blizzard plow should have Timbrens in front end, no matter what. Unless you have a real beefy front suspension.


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Stephen,most trucks that run the 810 are heavy duty.I do not need any assistance with my V plow.My boss 9'2" v weighs 980 lbs,and the suspenesion is standard snow plow prep. The truck doesnt sag more than an inch or so. A local guy has an 810 on his 01 F250 SD excab 5.4,it drops about an inch or so also,he has the plow prep too. Gm's wil need help ,IMO due to the torsion bar setup. 
Basic, i wish you had a Boss dealer locally,the Boss is much faster than the western V,and the controller is easy to use. This is my biggest beef with the Western V,its slow,and the controller not only stinks,but it gets to hot to hold after an hour or sothe lights that stay on,make it very hot,and turns itself off every time you shut off the truck,upon rerstarting it you need to power it up again,and set to the mode you want.It dont sound like a big deal until your going down the road,and want to angle it or raise it a little more,and the thing is shut off.


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## jbelandscape (Nov 27, 2002)

This may sound like a dumb question, but can you put a 9.5 mvp on a 2500HD. I already know that it is probably too big for my truck, but a friend of a friend went bankrupt and wants to get rid of his mvp quick. It has only been used one season and the guy is only asking $2000-2500 for it. I had planned on getting an 8.5 this year, but this sounds like a rediculously good deal. 

I would like feed back from some of the guys who fix these too. I just want to know if it would destroy my truck quickly or not.

P.S. If anyone is interested in the plow, email me, and I can hook you up with the guy. I am located in central northern ohio, right on the lake.

Jeff


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## wxmn6 (May 23, 2001)

John - I know that it would fit on most heavy duty truck, but if it is someone's personal truck, they would tend to be a bit concern about the weight. 

jbelandscape - you could mount 9.5' V plow on your truck, but it will look awful big. What is the spec. on your 2500HD - engine, cab, box? I can look up the Fisher chart (I know its the Western plow you are looking at but should be similar to Fisher) and see if they recommend them.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

jbelandscape - that 9.5 V will be a little heavy for your IFS front end.It will work,with some help,just don't expect to see a lot of life out of the front end components.


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

The one thing on the frontend of my truck that I have replaced about 3 times over the years is the Idler Arm. The Pitman Arm I replaced only once right before this past winter. Its funny how the Idler Arm has worn out so many times compared to everything else on the frontend, I guess it takes all or most of the abuse? All the tie rods are original and so are all the ball joints. Everytime I have replaced the Idler Arm, I always bought the best one the parts store had, I think it was always a Moog. This most recent time I put on an AC Delco unit. The Pitman Arm is also an AC Delco unit. Hopefully these parts will last being OEM. I grease the frontend quite often too. I used to grease it every oil change, but I dont do it that often anymore because I do the oil changes so frequently now. I dont go over 1500-2000 miles on an oil change. I guess the many grease jobs I have done over the years paid off with the tie rods and ball joints though, being they are still tight and original. Mike


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Mike - If you put a Moog on it you should never have to buy another one as they are lifetime warrantied.GM's eat idler arms like crazy.Even the Moog's wear out quickly.


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## BASIC (Dec 28, 2002)

I wanted to let you all know that I put a deposit on a Fisher V Plow today.I should have it instaled in about two weeks.They also had a Fisher X-Blade in stainless which looked real neat.I don't think the straight blade would've been a bad choice but as you all said the V is just more versatile.I'd like to thank you all for your great help in making my decision.I'm sure I'll have lots more questions,thankyou all again,BASIC.


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

Hey, good luck with the new plow. Im glad you finally took the plunge.  Fisher is a great snowplow. What size did you end up going with? Hopefully you can post pictures when all is said and done. Mike


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## BASIC (Dec 28, 2002)

Mike 97 SS,sir it's the 8'6"plow,BASIC.


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## John DiMartino (Jan 22, 2000)

Basic,you'll like the plow,good choice!


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