# Need help on choosing equipment



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

Hi guys,

I'm a new member to the site, but have been trolling it for about a year. I am reaching out to the community as I know the advice given on here can be quite helpful.

I have a small and new landscape company that I started last year. I also service my customers during the winter. I have a snowblower operation (me and an employee) to clear snow for my customers. Well last year was a kick in the nuts at the end of the year. The last two storms up here in MA sucked to say the least. one was 1'+ of wet snow with some rain at the end and the other was a blizzard with wet snow and freezing. 

My equipment held up until those storms hit. My single stage toro thats about 10 years old but well kept since day one obviously had very little purpose in those storms. My other blower, a dual stage craftsman 9hp, just didnt have the balls to throw the snow more than 10ft. Mind you that machine was never that great since I got it in 08.

Well this year I dont want to repeat the struggle of last year. Right now I have a 2wd chevy 3500 rackbody to get around in for business. I dont have 4wd so plowing is not really a consideration. I am also not considering it because I only have one truck at the moment and dont want to beat the piss out of it. The truck is a mint 01 right now and would like to keep it that way until I sell it to buy a new truck. 

I upsell my snow blowing service pretty well, and it makes it worth it. The customers were very pleased last year as was I with the money I made. But those last two storms were killer. I have been considering a few options that I feel may serve me well and was wondering your opinions.

Option 1: 

buy a 13hp commercial honda, and a 14hp hydro ariens for me and my guy. Put the machines in the back of my truck. Should be atleast decent in those bad storms.

Option 2:

Put a dual stage blower and cab on my walker and tow it on a 5x8 trailer and put chains on my truck. Will also buy one honda or ariens for the truck.

Option 3:

Buy a dingo 220 with plow and blower, and use the walk-behind blowers i have now. The equipment will be hauled in my truck, no trailer. I will be able to use the dingo for many other jobs during landscape season in 2018 and on. 

I like option 3 the best, 2 second, and 1 third. Obviously I have concerns with option 2 due to hauling a trailer in 2wd in bad snows as my entire route has about a 20 mile spread. (not ideal, but I service high end and thats what it is.....). Not really worried about beating the mower at this point, it is brand new and well taken care of for the past season. I do plan on getting another in 2019. 

Option 3 puts me about 2k over budget, but can be had if need be.

I am not buying a truck at this point yet. I am two years away from buy a brand new one. when I do it will be 4x4 and have a plow for eod and large drives.

Tell me what you guys think, or if I should take another route completely. I would like to have the most profitable set up I can for the next few years atleast. 

Thanks guys!


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I forgot how great it was to be back in the truck with a plow after doing walks and resi drives for 5+ years. Instead of buying brand new, maybe get used and get on this year (the money saved from not having employee expenses will pay for the plow). Although it's easy to spend someone else's money, and I fully understand being small and on a budget.

If you can handle getting things done with what you have now, why not stick with it until you're ready to move up to a truck. As far as big storms, just make sure you get out a few times with the storm. I have a craftsman as a back up, and yes they're terrible. Instead of a dingo (although you could probably use that year round) maybe a quad or something that moves a little afters. Those mini skids really creep along.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

i hate buying used trucks, its a crap shoot. I get nervous to buy a used plow truck. I know ill end up with downtime and repairs if its a heavy winter. I am also weary of dipping into my new truck savings to buy a used plow truck. 

I also battled with trading in my truck or selling it (6-7500) and throwing in 15k, but that still gets me a used work truck (roll of the dice) with 100k on it set up the way I would want. 

Right now my truck has a new tranny with 5yr commercial 100k warranty. Everything else is mint with no foreseeable problems. Ive had the truck for 5 years and pretty much know what I'm dealing with and what I may have to deal with in time to come. Not sure if its worth the trade in this situation. 

I feel that getting equipment opposed to the truck may have a greater return:investment in this case. yeah ill have to suck snow being outside for this season and maybe next, but it should be trouble free and less back breaking with better tools, and depending on which route I go, give me a tool that can be used year round.

My business and I are debt free and financing is not an option. I operate my business based on my actual liquidity. I found when I started operating this way, it made me learn to sell my services a whole lot better. there was more to lose if I didnt.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I wouldn't buy a "plow truck." You never know how it was treated. As far as equipment, I've rented a dingo for commercial sidewalks before. Like I said, it's pretty slow, but it works good in the snow. We used the bucket on long pushes because there was no where to put the snow, but sidewalks were only 3'. Handled it fine and was nice to stack where we needed. To keep you in budget, you could look into leasing on for the 5 months or so of winter. Also depending on your needs in the summer you could look into a small bobcat. Unloading either machine every job could get old fast. With my commercial site I used it on, it was a hospital, so I stayed on site the whole storm and only loaded after my employees got done with their route and hooked up the trailer. That when I only had one truck. Gotta make due with what you have. I know I'm kind of rambling here, so I apologize. Back on track...

How many houses do you have, how spread out are they, and what size drives? If they're small, just get another single stage and another commercial grade 2 stage. That way if a big storm hits you're covered, but you can both use single stage if able.


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Could you plow these drives? Or do some of your customers want them blown off? Plowing is much faster, easier, and you could do even more work in less time. About financing, its your choice but, in business now a days, its part of the game. Every truck I get is financed, more cash flow for me, and better for my accountant. And I also finance vehicle repair work for my customers.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I love my Dingo but I'll never use it for snow removal again. Too dang slow. Might be faster than walk behind blowers though.

Nothing wrong with manageable debt.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

I had 12 last year, and this year I picked up 20 more from my regular customers. I didnt advertise for this service and only offer it to my contractual customers.

My route sucks for snow. everything is spread out right now. Its a 15 mile route. However I do charge a trip charge every time I drive to the customers residence on top of the charge for the service. I dont want to say it makes up for the lost time compared to serving in a tighter radius, but I am able to make an average of $2/min while not working, better than nothing.

The driveways vary greatly. They are from 30-150' long with 4-10 car parking. Some need 100-150' stretches of sidewalk done, and all have some sort of entrance and pathway to get done.

These houses are all in upper class neighborhoods. 20% of the homes are paverstone, another few are stamped concrete, and the rest are sealed asphalt. 

About half of the customers asked for snow blowing, and after last year the other half love the snow blowing and the neatness it bring, and the lack of damage opposed to there previous snow company in some instances. I sold it this way also, so its probably my fault they all like it as much as they do. I kind of ****ed myself with that at this point but its what I had to do to make the money I wanted to make. kind of stuck blowing now.......I do enjoy it though......but need the right equipment.

A little s70 or 463 doesnt sound bad. Would fit on my 5x8 #3500. Probably get a used one around 12. I could also set up my walker for 3.5-4k too. should be fine towing a trailer in wet snow in 2wd as long as i set up the tires properly?

I dont know........

As far as financing goes.......I dont believe in it. To me it is a last resort, if your backed into a corner but have an executable business plan. If you know how to make money you will scale up steadily, with no debt and worry and a clear mind. If you budget right you will has a surplus of money that will satisfy your means and budget. You will make sound business decision because of the mental advantage. You will own every asset you have, and they will have actual value. you will be a slave to no one. as far as the irs there are better things to put your money into that will allow you to not have to take a hit on tax season and will actually make you more money, and all without having to be in debt.

Ive been down most roads in life. I have lost everything and I have gained much also. a lot of lessons learned.

Well now its time to make an educated decision on this snow blowing situation..............may rule the dingo out..........leaning more towards walker with blower or s70.......bout a 6-7k difference.....and if it makes more sens option 1.....


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I love my Dingo but I'll never use it for snow removal again. Too dang slow. Might be faster than walk behind blowers though.
> 
> Nothing wrong with manageable debt.


How much better than a top shelf ariens or honda do you think it is? We get some heavy wet freezing snow up in MA..... I know the pro ariens around here eat through anything, just takes some effort. how about the dingo? and do you know anyone with walker blower experience?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

A Dingo is unstoppable, but slow. We had a 22" blizzard with 6' drifts that it went through with some work, but never used the bucket, just the dozer blade. 

But to remain competitive on walks, we gave up on it. 

I think the Walker would be faster and one guy could be doing the detail work while the other is doing the driveway\long walks. Get some good tyres and throw some weight in the back of your truck and use your head and you won't need chains 90% of the time.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Debt is part of the game as stated above, I like to work on my own dime. I do have a line of credit that I use from time to time for cash flow. Any truck new that will suit my needs is going to be near $70k all upfitted. Depending on months financed I would assume your looking at $1000.per mo. If you buy used the body condition should be your biggest concern. Anything else can be repaired. Remember new trucks break to, Just not as much. I know this with 12k in payments per yr I can make a lot of repairs,


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> A Dingo is unstoppable, but slow. We had a 22" blizzard with 6' drifts that it went through with some work, but never used the bucket, just the dozer blade.
> 
> But to remain competitive on walks, we gave up on it.
> 
> I think the Walker would be faster and one guy could be doing the detail work while the other is doing the driveway\long walks. Get some good tyres and throw some weight in the back of your truck and use your head and you won't need chains 90% of the time.


Thank you for that info. I am leaning the way if the Walker. That dingo sure sounds sweet though


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

FredG said:


> Debt is part of the game as stated above, I like to work on my own dime. I do have a line of credit that I use from time to time for cash flow. Any truck new that will suit my needs is going to be near $70k all upfitted. Depending on months financed I would assume your looking at $1000.per mo. If you buy used the body condition should be your biggest concern. Anything else can be repaired. Remember new trucks break to, Just not as much. I know this with 12k in payments per yr I can make a lot of repairs,


I agree totally with what you're saying. I have a very nice used truck right now that I am about 7500 into for repair costs over the past 5 years. The numbers work out great. The only problem it's 2wd. I bought it for cheap when I didn't need 4wd years ago.

New is great for customer perception and lack of down time. If I go used the truck would have to be mint body wise and I would need two for when one breaks. I'm just tired of dealing with repairs to that level. I'm already working 60/h a week in the field, then estimates on top of that, then maintenance every week on my small equipment, then the book work. I'm tired of dealing with things that could be avoided. Schedule is so tight sometimes, that losing time to bad rain kills me never mind a downed work vehicle. Just don't know how to look at it anymore. New eliminates a lot of headache especially when you are working your vehicle every day.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

My truck is an 04, but because of its good condition I've had multiple customers assume it's a new/newer truck. Unless they're truck people, the don't know the difference between an '07 or '17. I was slow last year when I needed the truck, so I couldn't swing a new truck payment. I got used, with low miles.

I don't know how I ever ran my business with 1 truck. Having 2 makes things SO much easier. After talking (more like arguing) with my wife, I've cut my work week down from 80+ hour weeks to around 50. Learn how to delegate so cut back your hours and stress level, and having 2 trucks really helps with that. You could even add a mowing crew if you have the work.

Anyway, back to your original post. Unless it's a blower, get something you can use year round if possible, especially while you're small. I've even seen guys use zero turn mowers on walks with a blade in the front (not sure how well it worked for them). If you won't use a skid year round, no need to buy it for 30 drives. If you would use another truck year round, look into that.

Oh and from a guy who has been stressed out because of truck repairs, working long weeks, and not knowing how you're going to get to your customers while your truck is in the shop. Go in and talk to your local truck rental places. It doesn't look great when I have shown up to a house in a rental truck, but I can still work. Try not to stress about things out of your control (I have to remind myself of this), and be ready for if and when they happen.


----------



## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

compact tractor with blower, 1 walk behind for sidewalks and hard to reach parts

and why chains??, good snow tires and weight got me thru the blizzard of 77


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Luigirusso said:


> I agree totally with what you're saying. I have a very nice used truck right now that I am about 7500 into for repair costs over the past 5 years. The numbers work out great. The only problem it's 2wd. I bought it for cheap when I didn't need 4wd years ago.
> 
> New is great for customer perception and lack of down time. If I go used the truck would have to be mint body wise and I would need two for when one breaks. I'm just tired of dealing with repairs to that level. I'm already working 60/h a week in the field, then estimates on top of that, then maintenance every week on my small equipment, then the book work. I'm tired of dealing with things that could be avoided. Schedule is so tight sometimes, that losing time to bad rain kills me never mind a downed work vehicle. Just don't know how to look at it anymore. New eliminates a lot of headache especially when you are working your vehicle every day.


Dealing with plow trucks will always be a thorn in your side. Because of the beating they take. When I was working and doing the commute thing mostly highway miles never had no issues. The stop and go, Reverse miles and pushing snow, Idling hrs keeping warm is just hard on a truck. I wish these car wash guy would install a under wash only stall. The bays with the under wash we can't go in because of the equipment on the truck. suks.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

leolkfrm said:


> compact tractor with blower, 1 walk behind for sidewalks and hard to reach parts
> 
> and why chains??, good snow tires and weight got me thru the blizzard of 77


I remember that, One year out of high school with a shovel or blower. Just drooling to get in a loader. If it's above 10* I'd probably take the shovel now. The fun wore off..lol


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

FredG said:


> I remember that, One year out of high school with a shovel or blower. Just drooling to get in a loader. If it's above 10* I'd probably take the shovel now. The fun wore off..lol


Or the fun wears out after the 1st hour, when you know it's going to be a two day storm.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

JMHConstruction said:


> My truck is an 04, but because of its good condition I've had multiple customers assume it's a new/newer truck. Unless they're truck people, the don't know the difference between an '07 or '17. I was slow last year when I needed the truck, so I couldn't swing a new truck payment. I got used, with low miles.
> 
> I don't know how I ever ran my business with 1 truck. Having 2 makes things SO much easier. After talking (more like arguing) with my wife, I've cut my work week down from 80+ hour weeks to around 50. Learn how to delegate so cut back your hours and stress level, and having 2 trucks really helps with that. You could even add a mowing crew if you have the work.
> 
> ...


100% right on.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

leolkfrm said:


> compact tractor with blower, 1 walk behind for sidewalks and hard to reach parts
> 
> and why chains??, good snow tires and weight got me thru the blizzard of 77


Only suggested chains because I've never towed a trailer around in deep wet snow before and just wanted to cover my ass in case. Wasn't sure what to expect with 2wd. The last storm of the year up here in Boston kicked my ass. I had a very very hard time getting around in the frozen snow/ice after the 12" of slush froze.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

leolkfrm said:


> compact tractor with blower, 1 walk behind for sidewalks and hard to reach parts
> 
> and why chains??, good snow tires and weight got me thru the blizzard of 77


Do you think I would have an issue hauling a 5x8 trailer with a walker w/blower on it? I will also have my single and dual stage walk behind on the rack body along with and additional 1000# of weight


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

Jmh you raise a great point with the additional truck, kind of throwing a wrench into my original idea. Could also set up the plow to service my customers needs.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Nothing wrong with manageable debt.


Mark is spot on.

Financing is not always a last resort. I get that you don't believe in it. But look at it this way.

If you finance a machine that is within this "manageable debt" as Mark calls it, you can make money on your money. If you can be more productive by buying a piece of equipment that costs you a few bucks each month, you can take on more work. If one or two more drives covers the nut interest for the month, and you can add 10 or more because you have that piece of equipment, I call that 10 or more part profit. Not to mention, you retain your capital... which sometimes can be all the difference in the world.

At some point down the road you will also learn about writing off interest, deprecation schedules, renting equipment from yourself to yourself, deffered assets, etc. At that point, financing becomes a game of try not to give it all to Uncle Sam.

Take it for what you will. I am just like you, I refuse to finance anything, but my accountant typically tells me otherwise...


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Luigirusso said:


> I operate my business based on my actual liquidity. I found when I started operating this way, it made me learn to sell my services a whole lot better. there was more to lose if I didnt.


And just so you know, I applaud your attitude. It is very uncommon to see that out of the younger generation. 

You will succeed with that attitude. Just stay at it. Thumbs Up


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

Thanx Philbilly

To be honest I would only consider financing if 

1. I have a contract that required certain equipment and said contract revenue covered most of the cost of the financed item

2. Had a major the or broke a piece of equipment in a major way that forced me to have to buy a new piece of equipment when I don't have the funds or ability to buy the new equipment out right.

This is not for everyone but it is definitely the way I operate. I have had a torch cutting business that I ran this way that I took from 0 and in personal debt, to putting 125k a year in my pocket without financing anything. The first two years were hell and sacrifice but when things got slow I was beholden to no one and all the bills got paid and my little nest egg stayed untouched. 

Unfortunately a major life altering injury took me out of that game and back to the landscape business. Unfortunate by the way if the accident not the Landscaping, as I do enjoy it greatly.

I am just trying to stretch the money that I need to spend to service the winter customers to the furthest extent possible. I know that in the next few years to come I will look back on this post and be greatfull that this sort of "dilemma" is a thing of the past.

I love everyone's thoughts so far, this is how people gain perspective. Any ideas and ways if looking at things all on the table at once. We live in a great time when information can be shared so freely and abundantly and rapidly.

I may just pick up a used dump with a plow for no more than 7k. I'm still not sure at this point. I still like the idea of my walker with a blower, etc etc........still not sure which will give me the greatest rate if return over 12-24 months.


----------



## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

i used to tow a trailer behind a 68 impala to snow blow driveways.....


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

With what you had last year, before adding the extra 20 drives, how long did it take the 2 of you to complete your route? Or better yet, what did you average per drive.

I ask because 32 drives that are not close to each other is going to be a task with a couple blowers. Problem is, you've already up sold your customers a blowing service. Kind of a catch 22. You could make friends with a guy or 2 with a plow, and if you get another big storm have them plow out the houses that don't have to have it blown. You wouldn't make as much, but it would keep customers happy. Then you guys could just stop by to clean everything up at the end.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

leolkfrm said:


> i used to tow a trailer behind a 68 impala to snow blow driveways.....


Oh I bet that was fun


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

If you can get enough work. Get a second truck. Also that gives you a backup plan in case of a break down.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

How much are the attachments for your walker? For whatever reason I missed #2 in your original post. I assumed the trailer was for the dingo. Maybe I should learn to read a little better . I would just go that route if you don't want to get a truck and put a plow on it. Granted it was with 4wd, but I've pulled both single axle and tandem axle trailers in the snow, tandem axle by far had less sliding, but it might add more weight for pulling in a 2wd.


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

leolkfrm said:


> i used to tow a trailer behind a 68 impala to snow blow driveways.....


Bet ya wish you had that car now.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Randall Ave said:


> If you can get enough work. Get a second truck. Also that gives you a backup plan in case of a break down.


Buy a few hundred door hangers if it's legal in your area and hit some neighborhoods that you already have a customer base at. Easy way of adding work, but not dealing with a long commute from job to job.


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

If he can, he needs to tighten up the route. Or, have two crews out. Which would be better. And I run older stuff. You just have to keep up on maintenance. Have a spare everything.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

leolkfrm said:


> i used to tow a trailer behind a 68 impala to snow blow driveways.....


That's awesome


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

JMHConstruction said:


> How much are the attachments for your walker? For whatever reason I missed #2 in your original post. I assumed the trailer was for the dingo. Maybe I should learn to read a little better . I would just go that route if you don't want to get a truck and put a plow on it. Granted it was with 4wd, but I've pulled both single axle and tandem axle trailers in the snow, tandem axle by far had less sliding, but it might add more weight for pulling in a 2wd.


 If I bought new, the implement hitch, blower, and soft can is about 5k.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

As far as the route goes..........last year to be quite honest I did not want to do snow clearing. It was my first year back in landscaping and was testing the market in my area and also did not have the funds for the proper snow clearing equipment. Little by little my customers began to ask me about snow clearing........what was I going to so.......no. I didn't want them to get another landscape crew in there, and possible lose them as a customer.

I did not reach out any further than my regular customers because I new I barely had the means to serve my regulars effectively. 

This year will be a different story. Half of my route is a cluster of customers and the other half is spread out. If I know I can hit all the customers efficiently and know that I have room for additional , I will advertise like crazy and tighten up the route for sure. 

I need to pick the right combination of equipment.

Also with the crap blowers I have, I could do 2 houses in an hour and fifteen. That get to house one, unload, blow/shovel, ice melt, pack up, drive to next house, repeat. And thats with under a foot and powder. Don't even want to throw my time out to you guys from when the thick wet stuff hit, it's embarrassing. Made almost no money. Hate not being set up appropriately.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/2-stage-snowblower.170856/


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Randall Ave said:


> If he can, he needs to tighten up the route. Or, have two crews out. Which would be better. And I run older stuff. You just have to keep up on maintenance. Have a spare everything.


Ditto


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

Hi guys, I just want to say thank you for the advice. It has all been really great and insightful.

After careful consideration, I decided trying to upgrade to much better snow moving equipment this year on the budget I have just isnt worth it. I really dont want to compromise on the proper equipment and spend money on stuff that may most likely pose a problem at some point in the season.

I ended up cutting a deal yesterday with a local plow company. Theyll make money, I'll make a couple bucks, and my customers will be happy. Hes going to clear the drives, and I'll have two guys clearing the steps and walks behind him with the equipment I have currently. 

Seems like the best solution for me at this stage of the game. Next year will be a new year and hopefully a prosperous one. If it is I might be able to have a nice, clean set up for next year!


Thanks guys! Glad to be a part of this board with you!


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Good luck


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Hope it all works out for you. Ride along with the guy when you are able to. Learn as much as you can.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Randall Ave said:


> Hope it all works out for you. Ride along with the guy when you are able to. Learn as much as you can.


Sad to think it was so many years ago riding with my dad while he plowed...

Not sure if I did it because I made a couple dollars on the sites with walks or if I just thought it was cool to be up all night working with dad.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> I just thought it was cool to be up all night working with dad.


This is what it was for me.

And hoping school was cancelled so I could keep riding along.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Luigirusso said:


> The first two years were hell and sacrifice
> 
> I/QUOTE]


Oh, the first two years... 

I remember them all too well... those first two years are the reason that I have no problem firing employees that don't give me 100% every day.

All I have to think about is all the nights in those first two years of rolling around awake in bed wondering how I am going to stay open the next day... not to mention keep my family in our house and food on the table...

Those are the days that separate the men from the boys...


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

Philbilly2 said:


> Sad to think it was so many years ago riding with my dad while he plowed...
> 
> Not sure if I did it because I made a couple dollars on the sites with walks or if I just thought it was cool to be up all night working with dad.


Hell ya.........I miss working with my dad. We used to cut down bridges an powerplants for a company. I remember burning all day and all night me and him. He'd have a cigar in his mouth all day. We would drive home dead tired. No one would say anything. I'd watch the road with him, and he'd finally spark up his cigar.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

Philbilly2 said:


> Oh, the first two years...
> 
> I remember them all too well... those first two years are the reason that I have no problem firing employees that don't give me 100% every day.
> 
> ...


Right on! The reward is great for those who sacrifice.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

Randall Ave said:


> Hope it all works out for you. Ride along with the guy when you are able to. Learn as much as you can.


 Going to do that, I don't think he'd have a problem with that. We developed a relationship ship over the summer. He is a mason company and I sub him for work. I'm going to ask him.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Luigirusso said:


> Hell ya.........I miss working with my dad. We used to cut down bridges an powerplants for a company. I remember burning all day and all night me and him. He'd have a cigar in his mouth all day. We would drive home dead tired. No one would say anything. I'd watch the road with him, and he'd finally spark up his cigar.


You mean a blunt. lol


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

Lol.....not even close


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Is your name really Luigi Russo? Or just a net name? If so you have to be in NY, NJ, LOL :itflag:


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I hear roofers work cheap...find 20 of them and 50 shovels and you can do a driveway a minute.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

FredG said:


> Is your name really Luigi Russo? Or just a net name? If so you have to be in NY, NJ, LOL :itflag:


Lol...... It's really my name! I'm first generation American. I live in and am from MA


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I hear roofers work cheap...find 20 of them and 50 shovels and you can do a driveway a minute.


I know right. Roofers are hard workers too.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Luigirusso said:


> Lol...... It's really my name! I'm first generation American. I live in and am from MA


I'm a Italian immigrate, I came over TWA I was four years old, My birth first name is Danato, Every body calls me Puss because of my resemblance of Robert passtorie on the soprano's. a lot younger looking. Or Fred, Danny etc.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I hear roofers work cheap...find 20 of them and 50 shovels and you can do a driveway a minute.


Yes sir and most are laid off in the winter, You might have to do some creative payroll as they are getting unemployment and sub pay if union. that's okay most are married. Simple if needs to be. You only have them the winter months. Most have big ones, Your not getting me up on them peaks. And I'm a thrill seeker to some extent.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

FredG said:


> I'm a Italian immigrate, I came over TWA I was four years old, My birth first name is Danato, Every body calls me Puss because of my resemblance of Robert passtorie on the soprano's. a lot younger looking. Or Fred, Danny etc.


Lol........nice


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

My friend is one of the bigger landscapers in this area, Been around easy 28 yrs. He's got all Mexican. This is all he employs in the summer months. He has to put other guys on in the winter. Some don't drive and don't trust them.

He's got 3 main ones that speak good English and drives. He swears this works out perfectly. It won't work for me as I am no more than a 4 man crew. You see them guys out there just before dark on ladders trimming etc, Sat, Sun, He claims all they want to do is work and sandbag there money to mexico. I heard when laid off they go back to mexico and collect unemployment.

The Farmers would use them but with all the new ag machines it's all automation. It makes some sense if you have to employ 12 to 14 guys. I'm not talking about illegals his guys are all on payroll.


----------



## Luigirusso (Aug 15, 2017)

I hire very slow. I look for individuals who are willing to listen, learn, take initiative, and who are hungry. I will fire very quickly. If I see any of these traits missing after a day-a week, they are gone. This has worked out very well for me. I was able to do a lot with very few employees. The work was always done right, and customers and contractors always loved my guys. No one was nervous if I wasn't on the job because they new my guys were good. I take my time, and hire what I am looking for. You pay them right, and teach them and train them. Also I almost never seek out people with years of experience. They tend to not mold well and take the most time to get to come around. If the person has experience must be like minded.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> And just so you know, I applaud your attitude. It is very uncommon to see that out of the younger generation.
> 
> You will succeed with that attitude. Just stay at it. Thumbs Up


He comes by it honestly, It's his roots he's Italian. LMAO. As a rule we our good earners.  Grow up around then nuts screaming and yelling at you at work will either set you straight or crack you. My Father was a nut on the job to the point where you would want to tell him to F off. After work you would not believe he was the same person.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Luigirusso said:


> I hire very slow. I look for individuals who are willing to listen, learn, take initiative, and who are hungry. I will fire very quickly. If I see any of these traits missing after a day-a week, they are gone. This has worked out very well for me. I was able to do a lot with very few employees. The work was always done right, and customers and contractors always loved my guys. No one was nervous if I wasn't on the job because they new my guys were good. I take my time, and hire what I am looking for. You pay them right, and teach them and train them. Also I almost never seek out people with years of experience. They tend to not mold well and take the most time to get to come around. If the person has experience must be like minded.


The guys with experience could be a PITA, I tell them if hired, You have experience I expect you to mix in with the other guys. The guys I have know how I think and know the way it's done to satisfy me. I really have no interest in new ideas that you learned at other contractors unless you approach me. I don't care how good you are if you can't mix in your toast. Say good by, lol


----------

