# Adding a plow to 5ton military truck advice



## Suprman

After the last New England winter I am looking to add a 10-12 foot plow to my 5ton military truck. It's a big truck 6x6 weights in at around 21k and is 8 feet wide. The bumper is just under 3 feet high. I am not going to start out for hire, just for plowing my businesses and then see how it goes. I have no experience with these large plows and mounting to a heavy truck so any advice would be appreciated. I have seen some manual angle plows and others power angle. I am afraid if the plow is not sturdy enough the truck will bend the plow in heavy snow. The truck is 24 volt and has an air system. Thanks for taking the time to read my post. 
Will


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## BC Handyman

First I will say, you better do some learning about plows & plowing, cause there is no way you could have a "manual angle plow" that is 10-12' also running something that big requires special licence to drive i believe, another thing to check on. A plow that big wont be light or cheap so if you are serious I'd be doing some learning on the subject, your local place that sells plows will be able to give you price & specs you'd need for that vehicle


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## Suprman

I have used smaller trucks and bobcats for snow removal. The man angle plows I have seen are dot style for highway use. As long as I am not for hire and the whole think weighs under 26k then no special license is required. You are very right dealers want big bucks for these plows. I am looking at used plows there are several around mostly ex municipal set ups at very reasonable prices. I need to figure out which is the best way to go.


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## rjigto4oje

Suprman;1644837 said:


> After the last New England winter I am looking to add a 10-12 foot plow to my 5ton military truck. It's a big truck 6x6 weights in at around 21k and is 8 feet wide. The bumper is just under 3 feet high. I am not going to start out for hire, just for plowing my businesses and then see how it goes. I have no experience with these large plows and mounting to a heavy truck so any advice would be appreciated. I have seen some manual angle plows and others power angle. I am afraid if the plow is not sturdy enough the truck will bend the plow in heavy snow. The truck is 24 volt and has an air system. Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
> Will


You say it has air if it has air brakes you need a cdl the only way you can drive a truck with no special license is for an rv or farmer exempt


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## rjigto4oje

rjigto4oje;1644840 said:


> You say it has air if it has air brakes you need a cdl the only way you can drive a truck with no special license is for an rv or farmer exempt


find out were your county or state trucks get there equipment from


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## Suprman

There are no Ct or federal regs requiring a special license to drive a non-commercial vehicle with air brakes. The statutes all specify physical weight over 26000 pounds which I will still be under.


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## rjigto4oje

Suprman;1644842 said:


> There are no Ct or federal regs requiring a special license to drive a non-commercial vehicle with air brakes. The statutes all specify physical weight over 26000 pounds which I will still be under.


I hope johnny law knows the difference


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## BC Handyman

I imagine there will be sort of fabricating to get a plow onto it as I dont think they are set up for plowing, if you can get a used muni set up, then maybe only challange is that 24v system, how common is 24v system on a large truck?


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## Suprman

I can modify or convert the electrics to 24v I have done it with other things. Most of the plowing I would do will be straight line. I have seen more manual angle dot style plows than power angle. I wouldn't use it for light snow just the big storms I have use of a smaller truck for light snow. Last year when 3 feet of snow appeared at my doorstep the small plow laughed at me. If it had legs it would have ran away. I had to use the manual snow removal method we shoveled and knocked down at it then snowblew it away. It took a long time.


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## OldSchoolPSD

Suprman;1644842 said:


> There are no Ct or federal regs requiring a special license to drive a non-commercial vehicle with air brakes. The statutes all specify physical weight over 26000 pounds which I will still be under.


FMCSA law states that air brakes require a CDL. Thats federal law, all 50 states.

That being said I know personally of a ton of guys running 4300 Internationals with air brakes tagged under 26k that have never had an issue.

If all you want it for is big snows, I'd build a V plow for that bad boy. It would be unstoppable.


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## Suprman

The fed regs only apply to commercial vehicles which I am not. I haven't seen any used v plows around that big. Most are manual angle types for highway plowing.


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## 1olddogtwo

Suprman;1644842 said:


> There are no Ct or federal regs requiring a special license to drive a non-commercial vehicle with air brakes. The statutes all specify physical weight over 26000 pounds which I will still be under.


Huh? In your first post your talking about plowing your business plus others possible. That would be commercial use of a vehicle. Assuming you are registering the unit under your busniness name, it would a commercial unit and fall under the CDL rules. If registering under personal, what about insurance?

The plow and power are easy.


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## 1olddogtwo

Suprman;1644870 said:


> The fed regs only apply to commercial vehicles which I am not. I haven't seen any used v plows around that big. Most are manual angle types for highway plowing.


Wow, tip of the iceberg here

If you plow for money, its a commercial business.

I think if were to buy a RV with air brake and used it for personal use, a cdl requirements would be waived.


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## jomama45

OldSchoolPSD;1644868 said:


> FMCSA law states that air brakes require a CDL. Thats federal law, all 50 states.
> 
> *That being said I know personally of a ton of guys running 4300 Internationals with air brakes tagged under 26k that have never had an issue.*
> 
> If all you want it for is big snows, I'd build a V plow for that bad boy. It would be unstoppable.


The reason they're not getting tickets is because it's perfectly legal, as long as the vehicle is plated under 26K, operated under 26K, and the door tag is 26K or less. Just about every truck manufacturer makes these trucks for a specific reason, people want air brakes/breaks w/o having to get a CDL.......


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## 1olddogtwo

Why does everyone focus on 26,001 when CDL requirements start at 10,001. The 26,001 only is a change in weight or I should say a change in classification.


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## rjigto4oje

Put a cap on it with a bed and call it an R.V
then you wont have to worry about what license you need And when you get tired of plowing you will have a
a place to sleep we all have slept in our trucks at one time or another


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## jomama45

1olddogtwo;1644876 said:


> Why does everyone focus on 26,001 when CDL requirements start at 10,001. The 26,001 only is a change in weight or I should say a change in classification.


Maybe because it's pertinent to this very situation? The OP is right, he doesn't need no stinkin' CDL for this scenario..........


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## 1olddogtwo

jomama45;1644878 said:


> Maybe because it's pertinent to this very situation? The OP is right, he doesn't need no stinkin' CDL for this scenario..........


Let fire up my computer and I will post in back in white. It will be clear like the air we breath.....unless you live in California


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## rjigto4oje

If you put a plow on it they may call it a commercial vehicle check first with the dot I have a cdl there are only a few instance were you don't need a cdl farmers rv owners fire department go to the dmv and get a commercial driving book if you have to get a license you would only get a class B getting a cdl is easier than you may think and if you have a cdl and get pulled over 9 out of 10 times they'll cut you some slack P.S if you do get a cdl you will aslo have to get a medical card


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## 1olddogtwo

It could be a cab and chassis and its still a commercial vehicle. You need a medical card at 10,001.

Ever hear of commas and periods?


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## rjigto4oje

1olddogtwo;1644882 said:


> It could be a cab and chassis and its still a commercial vehicle. You need a medical card at 10,001.
> 
> Ever hear of commas and periods?


 Trying to type on a cell phone sucks


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## 1olddogtwo

rjigto4oje;1644883 said:


> Trying to type on a cell phone sucks


I hear that. I hate posting,emailing, texting from my driod. My BlackBerry is old and slow but but I like it!


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## rjigto4oje

1olddogtwo;1644885 said:


> I hear that. I hate posting,emailing, texting from my driod. My BlackBerry is old and slow but but I like it!


Ill agree they suck spell check is a pain also that speak to text sucks


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## OldSchoolPSD

FMCSA regs apply to every vehicle with a GVW over 10,000lbs excluding RV's. Doesn't matter if its being used for hire or not. CDL required, thanks for playing...



> The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSR), Title 49 CFR, Part 390.5 defines a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) as any self-propelled or towed vehicle used on a highway when the vehicle:
> 
> Has a GVWR or GCWR of 4,536 kg (10,001 lbs.) or more, whichever is greater; or
> 
> Is designed or used to transport more than eight passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
> 
> Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers (including the driver), and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or


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## jomama45

OldSchoolPSD;1644894 said:


> FMCSA regs apply to every vehicle with a GVW over 10,000lbs excluding RV's. Doesn't matter if its being used for hire or not. CDL required, thanks for playing...


The only thing that proves is that you don't know the difference between a CMV and a CDL.......


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## OldSchoolPSD

I've held a CDL for the past 10 years. I do this **** every day. 

Any time you operate a vehicle with air brakes you need an air brake endorsement. Class B CDL is the lowest you can go and have an air brake endorsement. CMV or not, air brakes put you under CDL requirements. Whether it is enforced in your area or not, that IS the law.



If you don't like the answers I'm giving you then ask people who don't know until you get the answer you want.


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## jomama45

OldSchoolPSD;1644905 said:


> I've held a CDL for the past 10 years.
> 
> I've served on my church council for 4 years or so, does that make me a biblical scholar?
> I've been around my trade fro mare than 20+ years, does that make me the "be all, end all" expert?
> 
> I do this **** every day.
> 
> I agree, you "fabricate" quite well...........
> 
> Any time you operate a vehicle with air brakes you need an air brake endorsement.
> 
> False....
> 
> Class B CDL is the lowest you can go and have an air brake endorsement.
> 
> So, what letter denotes an "air brake endorsement" on your driver's license??
> 
> CMV or not, air brakes put you under CDL requirements.
> 
> False again.....
> 
> Whether it is enforced in your area or not, that IS the law.
> 
> It's extremely hard to enforce a law that doesn't exist......
> 
> If you don't like the answers I'm giving you then ask people who don't know until you get the answer you want.


The OP can either believe you, or they can believe the Ohio BMV. Here's a link with FAQ's right at the bottom, with the same exact question as his. Take note as to the answer, because it's the only correct one:

http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/faq_cdl.stm#tog

Also, from the state of Conneticut:

http://www.dmv.org/ct-connecticut/cdl-faqs.php


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## 1olddogtwo

This is getting way off base. Here is the weights and payload of the lightest 5ton 6x6.

Model Number_______Empty Vehicle Weight(lbs.)____Payload(lbs.)

M923______________21,600_____________________10,000
M923A1____________22,175_____________________10,000
M923A2____________20,930_____________________10,000

When it comes to CDL we need to look at GVWR. Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single motor vehicle. Clearly,this should end the debate.


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## snocrete

jomama45;1644909 said:


> The OP can either believe you, or they can believe the Ohio BMV. Here's a link with FAQ's right at the bottom, with the same exact question as his. Take note as to the answer, because it's the only correct one:
> 
> http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/faq_cdl.stm#tog
> 
> Also, from the state of Conneticut:
> 
> http://www.dmv.org/ct-connecticut/cdl-faqs.php


I think cretebaby hacked joes account?



1olddogtwo;1644914 said:


> This is getting way off base. Here is the weights and payload of the lightest 5ton 6x6.
> 
> Model Number_______Empty Vehicle Weight(lbs.)____Payload(lbs.)
> 
> M923______________21,600_____________________10,000
> M923A1____________22,175_____________________10,000
> M923A2____________20,930_____________________10,000
> 
> When it comes to CDL we need to look at GVWR. Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single motor vehicle. Clearly,this should end the debate.
> 
> View attachment 127360
> 
> 
> View attachment 127361


so even the lightest 5ton 6x6 you listed requires a CDL:whistling:


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## snocrete

OldSchoolPSD;1644905 said:


> I've held a CDL for the past 10 years. I do this **** every day.
> 
> Any time you operate a vehicle with air brakes you need an *air brake endorsement. * Class B CDL is the lowest you can go and have an *air brake endorsement*. CMV or not, air brakes put you under CDL requirements. Whether it is enforced in your area or not, that IS the law.
> 
> If you don't like the answers I'm giving you then ask people who don't know until you get the answer you want.


how do I get me one of them?


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## 1olddogtwo

snocrete;1644921 said:


> so even the lightest 5ton 6x6 you listed requires a CDL:whistling:


In this particular scenario, I would think so.

Can someone explain a way around it? I find it hard to belive I could buy such a truck, put my wife in, put a 12 foot (or even 8) plow on it, plow for hire and not need a CDL. Am I mistaken? At best, I could see is 36,000lbs without a CDL in the right combo.

Breaking down the air brake and misquoting other states facts into this, I dont have a pony for that race.


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## Suprman

Connecticuts statute definition of gross weight is the physical weight of the vehicle plus the physical weight of any cargo or trailer in tow. I am just using it to plow my business right now not for hire. All of the state and federal statutes specify commercial use, more than a specified number of passengers or transporting hazardous materials. None of which apply to me. Airbrakes are safer and more reliable than hydraulic brakes as long as they are properly maintained. Now back to my original question who has any experience mounting a plow to one of these trucks?


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## 1olddogtwo

http://www.ct.gov/dmv/LIB/dmv/20/29/mch.pdf

you better read this then, it from your home state of CT


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## 1olddogtwo

Im done with the CDL thing>

there are bigger trucks and plow with some guys that know awhole lot about them, look thru here:
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=20489&page=516


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## Suprman

It applies to vehicles in commerce. If you read the statutes it all says commerce. If I am not for hire I am not operating commercially and need no cdl. Dmv agrees with me I have several registered here in CT.


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## 1olddogtwo

Suprman;1644837 said:


> I am not going to start out for hire, just for plowing my businesses and then see how it goes..


I was just going off ur first post, personally I would love to see it happen and wish ya the best of luck.


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## cretebaby

rjigto4oje;1644840 said:


> You say it has air if it has air brakes you need a cdl


That isn't true. Probably one of the most misunderstood things aboot when a CDL is required.



OldSchoolPSD;1644868 said:


> FMCSA law states that air brakes require a CDL. Thats federal law, all 50 states.


That isn't "stated" anywhere in your so called FMCSA law.



1olddogtwo;1644876 said:


> Why does everyone focus on 26,001 when CDL requirements start at 10,001. The 26,001 only is a change in weight or I should say a change in classification.


Probably because CDL requirements don't start at 10k but at 26k 



OldSchoolPSD;1644894 said:


> FMCSA regs apply to every vehicle with a GVW over 10,000lbs excluding RV's. Doesn't matter if its being used for hire or not. CDL required, thanks for playing...


Don't be such a arse clown. You don't know what you speak of here.



OldSchoolPSD;1644905 said:


> Any time you operate a vehicle with air brakes you need an air brake endorsement.


Your still at it.

There is no such thing as an air brake endorsement.* Therefore it CAN'T be required.



snocrete;1644921 said:


> I think cretebaby hacked joes account?


Hee hee hee.



snocrete;1644923 said:


> how do I get me one of them?


Might be easier to acquire the lockness monster



Suprman;1644938 said:


> It applies to vehicles in commerce. If you read the statutes it all says commerce. If I am not for hire I am not operating commercially and need no cdl. Dmv agrees with me I have several registered here in CT.


You best look up what the DOT deems "commerce".



Suprman;1644938 said:


> I am not going to start out for hire, just for plowing my businesses


By plowing your _businesses_ it makes you commercial.

* In the states


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## Suprman

If I am not for hire then I am not considered commercial and it will weigh less than 26k. Seeing that everyone is more concerned about cdls than plows maybe the site should be renamed cdlsite.


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## cretebaby

Suprman;1644991 said:


> If I am not for hire then I am not considered commercial and it will weigh less than 26k. Seeing that everyone is more concerned about cdls than plows maybe the site should be renamed cdlsite.


Being "for hire" nor "weighing less then 26k" are factors.

You are working in commerce and your GVWR is over 26k.


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## Suprman

Ct statutes definition of gross weight is physical weight. So everywhere in the statutes that refer to gvwr it actually means physical weight. I see no point to this thread anymore since all I get are cdl opinions which I don't need.


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## cretebaby

Suprman;1644993 said:


> Ct statutes definition of gross weight is physical weight. So everywhere in the statutes that refer to gvwr it actually means physical weight.


Your wrong here. It's based off of GVWR at the minimum.

True that GW = Actual weight but GVWR does not equal GW. Following me?


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## Suprman

(36) "Gross weight" means the light weight of a vehicle plus the weight of any load on the vehicle, provided, in the case of a tractor-trailer unit, "gross weight" means the light weight of the tractor plus the light weight of the trailer or semitrailer plus the weight of the load on the vehicle;


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## cretebaby

Suprman;1644996 said:


> (36) "Gross weight" means the light weight of a vehicle plus the weight of any load on the vehicle, provided, in the case of a tractor-trailer unit, "gross weight" means the light weight of the tractor plus the light weight of the trailer or semitrailer plus the weight of the load on the vehicle;


Cool.

Now show where your CDL requirements are based off of gross weight.


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## snocrete

Suprman;1644991 said:


> If I am not for hire then I am not considered commercial and it will weigh less than 26k. Seeing that everyone is more concerned about cdls than plows maybe the site should be renamed cdlsite.


nevermind...i'll just watch.


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## 1olddogtwo

cretebaby;1644987 said:


> That isn't true. Probably one of the most misunderstood things aboot when a CDL is required.
> 
> That isn't "stated" anywhere in your so called FMCSA law.
> 
> Probably because CDL requirements don't start at 10k but at 26k
> 
> Don't be such a arse clown. You don't know what you speak of here.
> 
> Your still at it.
> 
> There is no such thing as an air brake endorsement.* Therefore it CAN'T be required.
> 
> Hee hee hee.
> 
> Might be easier to acquire the lockness monster
> 
> You best look up what the DOT deems "commerce".
> 
> By plowing your _businesses_ it makes you commercial.
> 
> * In the states


I knew I would be quoted on that statement. The medical card is one of the first steps, also needed at 10,001.

Most of our fleet are E and F 450's with dot numbers and we have to do log books same as CDL's holders. This is my reference to the requirements. Only a few of us hold CDL's.


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## cretebaby

1olddogtwo;1644999 said:


> I knew I would be quoted on that statement. The medical card is one of the first steps, also needed at 10,001.


That doesn't mean a CDL is required.

Lots of trucks on the road that need med cards that don't need CDL.


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## oldmankent

Medical card is easy though. Just get a physical. Anyone can get one practically. I would get a power angle plow for your truck. A one way for plowing businesses does not sound good. For roads fine, but not lots. Look into wings too. Also, all regs etc are based off of the trucks registered GVWR, not what it actually weighs. You will need a CDL to drive that truck. And, if you register the truck at 26k, but the truck is really a 33K truck and you get stopped. Guarantee they will ticket you for not having a CDL and improper reg.


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## 1olddogtwo

cretebaby;1645000 said:


> That doesn't mean a CDL is required.
> 
> Lots of trucks on the road that need med cards that don't need CDL.


I'm not saying they need CDL. Reread my post.


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## cretebaby

1olddogtwo;1645002 said:


> I'm not saying they need CDL. Reread my post.


Here is what you said.



1olddogtwo;1644876 said:


> CDL requirements start at 10,001.


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## 1olddogtwo

cretebaby;1645000 said:


> That doesn't mean a CDL is required.
> 
> Lots of trucks on the road that need med cards that don't need CDL.


As I think about, we are required do everything with the exception of holding a cdl. We do log books,dot numbers, scales, dot safety inspections,the whole nine yards without holding [most] a cdl. We do a lot of out a state work.


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## 1olddogtwo

what's your definition of a commercial vehicle?


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## cretebaby

1olddogtwo;1645005 said:


> what's your definition of a commercial vehicle?


Here are the two that fit this conversation.

Part 383 or CDL CMV.



> Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle-
> (1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or
> (2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater; or
> (3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
> (4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.


Part 390 or Med card, dot #'s etc CMV



> Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle-
> (1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
> (2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
> (3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
> (4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.


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## 1olddogtwo

cretebaby;1645006 said:


> There are several. You want one or two that fit this conversation?


 My point is we do everything with trucks at 10,001


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## cretebaby

1olddogtwo;1645007 said:


> Let's not hang the hat on 26,001 or hasmat


Take away the hazmat and bus. 26,001 is the magic hat hanging number.


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## 1olddogtwo

cretebaby;1645009 said:


> Take away the hazmat and bus. 26,001 is the magic hat hanging number.


I hate posting from this phone!


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## 1olddogtwo

The way I'm reading what your saying, we are required by law to follow all these rules and regulations Are these are not CDL requirements starting at 10,001?


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## cretebaby

1olddogtwo;1645011 said:


> Are these are not CDL requirements starting at 10,001?


They are not.

You are making a false connection between what is required at 10k to what is required at 26k.

Most think of med cards and log books etc as CDL stuff but it isn't. They are 10k part 390 CMV things.

Following me?


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## 1olddogtwo

cretebaby;1645013 said:


> They are not.
> 
> You are making a false connection between what is required at 10k to what is required at 26k.
> 
> Most think of med cards and log books etc as CDL stuff but it isn't. They are 10k part 390 CMV things.
> 
> Following me?


I think we're both on the same track just splitting hairs.

Beside you can legally go to 36k before crossing in to CDL at the most weight, 26,001 is just a number most trip over.


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## NBI Lawn

cretebaby;1645009 said:


> Take away the hazmat and bus. 26,001 is the magic hat hanging number.


I don't think people are getting the difference between what/when a vehicle is classified as a CMV (health card) and when you need your CDL.


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## OldSchoolPSD

There's enough misinformation in this thread to write a book on.

Cut off for a CDL is a strait truck weighing 26,001lbs or a combination weighing over 26,001 lbs where the trailer weight is greater than 10,000lbs.

Any vehicle that is not an rv and is over 10,000lbs is subject to FMCSA standards which require at a minimum a dot medical card, dot number, and all safety equipment (fire extinguisher, flares/triangles, ect. Commercial use or not, the only exception is an rv.

That's the law. What your state chooses to enforce is up to them. You can probably get away with it just fine as long as you don't pull into the scale house and yell "look at me" I live in a state that chooses to enforce ever law on the books (and some that aren't). I contract heavy haul and crane setup, and I've hauled more permit loads than most of you guys have had hot showers. Take the info for what it's worth.


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## OldSchoolPSD

I would also like to suggest the absolute easiest way to figure out what you need to be 100% legit is to call the state police's commercial vehicle enforcement people and just ask.


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## TJS

To the OP's original question. Look for gedhil,monroe, highway, austin or other municipal plows, they are out there on CL and Ebay. You want to get at least the uprights/attachment and fabricate custom mounts. There is a great steel supply place in the lordship area. You will need some heavy C-channel or I-beams as well as plate. If you need a hand milling or drilling holes let me know. I have a full shop at my house. (Bpt. Mill, Lathe, saws, MIG, TIG, Plasma, tube bender, etc.)

Also CT state inspectors in the State Police cars WILL pull you over and have a field day inspecting and writing tickets so do all your homework now.


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## jomama45

OldSchoolPSD;1645237 said:


> There's enough misinformation in this thread to write a book on.


And a few chapters of the book came from the tips of your own fingers...........


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## snocrete

OldSchoolPSD;1645238 said:


> I would also like to suggest the absolute easiest way to figure out what you need to be 100% legit is to call the state police's commercial vehicle enforcement people and just ask.


Not true....get your info from the DOT if you want to be 100% sure. Many would be surprised how many State Troopers misinterpret the laws/rules themselves.



jomama45;1645391 said:


> And a few chapters of the book came from the tips of your own fingers...........


he hehe he


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## got-h2o

I browsed but didn't read through every comment in detail. I get everyones points on CDL's, but to register an ex military vehicle here it's super simple from what I've heard. No CDL, etc. Air brakes or not. They get registration #'s to put on the bumper, not even a license plate. 

I'd probably get one to be on the safe side, but..................


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## OldSchoolPSD

snocrete;1645438 said:


> Not true....get your info from the DOT if you want to be 100% sure. Many would be surprised how many State Troopers misinterpret the laws/rules themselves.
> 
> he hehe he


Commercial Vehicle Enforcement = DOT enforcement

sorry if the big words threw you off


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## snocrete

OldSchoolPSD;1645238 said:


> I would also like to suggest the absolute easiest way to figure out what you need to be 100% legit is to call the* state police*'s commercial vehicle enforcement people and just ask.





OldSchoolPSD;1645463 said:


> Commercial Vehicle Enforcement = DOT enforcement
> 
> sorry if the big words threw you off


The "state police" & "department of transportation" are 2 different departments. Sorry if the big words threw you off

Theres facts that have already been stated here in this thread, among many other threads concerning DOT regs...some people just dont seem to read or comprehend it.

Heres a tip - Do a search with the words "cretebaby" &/or "CDL" in it, read all threads thoroughly, really let it soak in, and you "might" start to get it.


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## NBI Lawn

This thread cracks me up but I don't know anything 100% so I am just here for entertainment. I do know enough to know who's right though


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## cretebaby

OldSchoolPSD;1645237 said:


> Cut off for a CDL is a strait truck weighing 26,001lbs or a combination weighing over 26,001 lbs where the trailer weight is greater than 10,000lbs.


It has nothing to do with "weight" but the GVWR/CGVWR.

And what aboot that pesky "air brake endorsement" you speak so mulch aboot?


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## dfd9

rjigto4oje;1644840 said:


> You say it has air if it has air brakes you need a cdl the only way you can drive a truck with no special license is for an rv or farmer exempt


This is soooooo wrong and has been proven over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.



OldSchoolPSD;1644868 said:


> FMCSA law states that air brakes require a CDL. Thats federal law, all 50 states.
> 
> That being said I know personally of a ton of guys running 4300 Internationals with air brakes tagged under 26k that have never had an issue.
> 
> If all you want it for is big snows, I'd build a V plow for that bad boy. It would be unstoppable.


Like the cheesehead below stated, they can run that way because they are 100% LEGAL to run that way.

Air brakes\breaks have absolutely jack squat to do with needing a CDL.

Crete probably addressed all this already, but I am only up to page 1 and am seeing this much faulty information.



jomama45;1644874 said:


> The reason they're not getting tickets is because it's perfectly legal, as long as the vehicle is plated under 26K, operated under 26K, and the door tag is 26K or less. Just about every truck manufacturer makes these trucks for a specific reason, people want air brakes/breaks w/o having to get a CDL.......


See, even a cheesehead can understand it.



1olddogtwo;1644876 said:


> Why does everyone focus on 26,001 when CDL requirements start at 10,001. The 26,001 only is a change in weight or I should say a change in classification.


Maybe because that's when CDL requirements to come into play?

Please show me the law that states one must have a CDL when one's vehicle or vehicle combination is between 10,001 and 26,000#.

I won't be holding my breath.



rjigto4oje;1644881 said:


> If you put a plow on it they may call it a commercial vehicle check first with the dot I have a cdl there are only a few instance were you don't need a cdl farmers rv owners fire department go to the dmv and get a commercial driving book if you have to get a license you would only get a class B getting a cdl is easier than you may think and if you have a cdl and get pulled over 9 out of 10 times they'll cut you some slack P.S if you do get a cdl you will aslo have to get a medical card


I see one punctuation mark in that mess. And I needed to catch my breath after reading it.

Did you know that a med card can be required without a CDL?

Slow down and learn to punctuate.


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## dfd9

jomama45;1644896 said:


> The only thing that proves is that you don't know the difference between a CMV and a CDL.......


:laughing:


OldSchoolPSD;1644905 said:


> I've held a CDL for the past 10 years. I do this **** every day.
> 
> Well then, apparently on a few items you do stuff wrong every day.
> 
> Any time you operate a vehicle with air brakes you need an air brake endorsement. Class B CDL is the lowest you can go and have an air brake endorsement. CMV or not, air brakes put you under CDL requirements. Whether it is enforced in your area or not, that IS the law.
> 
> I'd really like to see a link for this.
> 
> One other question, could you show me a normal operator's license with an air brake\break endorsement?
> 
> Please?
> 
> If you don't like the answers I'm giving you then ask people who don't know until you get the answer you want.


I don't like the answers because they're the wrong answers.



jomama45;1644909 said:


> The OP can either believe you, or they can believe the Ohio BMV. Here's a link with FAQ's right at the bottom, with the same exact question as his. Take note as to the answer, because it's the only correct one:
> 
> http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/faq_cdl.stm#tog
> 
> Also, from the state of Conneticut:
> 
> http://www.dmv.org/ct-connecticut/cdl-faqs.php


Why would you post factual links?

If you're a biblical scholar after 4 years, you must be a beer genius.



cretebaby;1644987 said:


> That isn't true. Probably one of the most misunderstood things aboot when a CDL is required.
> 
> That isn't "stated" anywhere in your so called FMCSA law.
> 
> Probably because CDL requirements don't start at 10k but at 26k
> 
> Don't be such a arse clown. You don't know what you speak of here.
> 
> Your still at it.
> 
> There is no such thing as an air brake endorsement.* Therefore it CAN'T be required.
> 
> Hee hee hee.
> 
> Might be easier to acquire the lockness monster
> 
> You best look up what the DOT deems "commerce".
> 
> By plowing your _businesses_ it makes you commercial.
> 
> * In the states


:laughing::laughing:



1olddogtwo;1645004 said:


> As I think about, we are required do everything with the exception of holding a cdl. We do log books,dot numbers, scales, dot safety inspections,the whole nine yards without holding [most] a cdl. We do a lot of out a state work.


Doesn't mean a CDL is required at 10,001 and though.



OldSchoolPSD;1645237 said:


> There's enough misinformation in this thread to write a book on.
> 
> And the greater majority is from you.
> 
> At least 1old is admitting (more or less) that he was wrong.
> 
> Cut off for a CDL is a strait truck weighing 26,001lbs or a combination weighing over 26,001 lbs where the trailer weight is greater than 10,000lbs.
> 
> Oh never mind.
> 
> Any vehicle that is not an rv and is over 10,000lbs is subject to FMCSA standards which require at a minimum a dot medical card, dot number, and all safety equipment (fire extinguisher, flares/triangles, ect. Commercial use or not, the only exception is an rv.
> 
> Bovine excrement and horse hockey. MI just passed a law exempting vehicles under 26,001 from displaying DOT numbers and some of the other requirements. Many other states do not require DOT numbers.
> 
> The map showing which do and don't has been posted about 6,000 times.
> 
> That's the law. What your state chooses to enforce is up to them. You can probably get away with it just fine as long as you don't pull into the scale house and yell "look at me" I live in a state that chooses to enforce ever law on the books (and some that aren't). I contract heavy haul and crane setup, and I've hauled more permit loads than most of you guys have had hot showers. Take the info for what it's worth.


Doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. Obviously.


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## Mike_PS

ok, I'm closing this one down...let's move on rather then throw insults at one another and/or call them names, etc.

everyone can get their point across just fine without having to insult one another in the process

thanks, we would appreciate it :waving:


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