# setting limits on seasonal contract?



## bullit340 (Oct 25, 2005)

I really think this is a necessary part of a seasonal contract.
I was thinking of going with our average amount of snow fall, and then going to an hourly rate for plowing after we go over the set amount of inches in the contract. 

example: 60" average seasonal snowfall
covered in contract up to 70"
After 70" we go to an hourly rate

How do you guys build limits into your seasonal contracts?
I know the example above is very simplified but I bet there are some creative ways to do this
Any suggestions


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

We have a minimum where the customer gets money back and a maximum which we charge per storm after a certain amount for the season.. but others are one price takes all


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

I have one where we cap the number of services in the season. Then it's an additional per push price.
We are on our 4th year, we have lowered the monthly price, we have adjusted down the # of services to keep the price down for the customer. Last year was the closest he got to the cap 12 out of 15 services. So this year we upped the per push price.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Why inches?

Are you selling inches of snow? What about the inch here or there at the beginning or end of the season that doesn't stick to pavement? Why are you charging the customer for snow that you didn't clear?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

We don’t Limit our plowing, but we set a maximum number of saltings and charge per salting event after that


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Cant say i have ever put a cap or limit on a seasonal price. To do so with everything being equal means you have to reciprocate in a low snow season.
Seasonal contracts (for me ) are a way to give the customer an even monthly payment so bad snow months dont overwhelm them all at once. I also need to pay my bills and stay motivated.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

We don’t Limit our plowing, but we set a maximum number of saltings and charge after that


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> Cant say i have ever put a cap or limit on a seasonal price. To do so with everything being equal means you have to reciprocate in a low snow season.
> Seasonal contracts (for me ) are a way to give the customer an even monthly payment so bad snow months dont overwhelm them all at once. I also need to pay my bills and stay motivated.


Agreed... Hopefully @kimber750 doesn't see this...


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

I average 12 storms a year over 2". (33 years of records) I switched to seasonal contracts about 8 years ago. Pay up front for 10 storms and I cover you for ALL storms Up to 6" of snow. I charge extra for any storm over 6". no salt, no shovelling. I start plowing if we get ~1" of snow.

I know Im crazy and stupid but it works for us (me and the customer, I still have a waiting list of people that want my service)


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> Cant say i have ever put a cap or limit on a seasonal price. To do so with everything being equal means you have to reciprocate in a low snow season.
> Seasonal contracts (for me ) are a way to give the customer an even monthly payment so bad snow months dont overwhelm them all at once. I also need to pay my bills and stay motivated.


I never did...until 2013-2014. We had a few high priority accounts that we plowed over 50 times. But our numbers were based on 22. The rest were all well over 30 trips. The math doesn't work.

I tell them we will provide 2 "free" plowings before charging per trip as I am not trying to get rich by screwing them but I have to cover my costs when an abnormal season such as that hits. We've hit the max on a few accounts once or twice since then and charged.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

See mine here you get 40” and 12 applications of salt after that it per application and per inch price. Work good for both parties and help with the great budgets. The sites closer to the water get 26” and 10 salt applications.

If I do get a call for service outside of the scope I will ask if they want to use application or per salt price if it’s a smaller area.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

The in town ones there is no limit. The one we cap is a 15 mile drive past the last account on my route. He's always the day after a storm, it's gravel and he has a 4x4 truck, so anything under 6" that doesn't drift gets packed down for base material, generally.
I have one doctor who is on the edge of our route. Our contract with him is " if you need the driveway plowed to get to work by 6, you must message me by 5 am. " they pay my drive time from wherever I'm at to their place, our minimum charge to bust a path for him to get out, and my drive time back to where I was. Then I clean it up in it's place on the route.
Only used it once in 3 years, he has a full size 4x4, but when I got there, he just jumped in with me and I drove him to the hospital.

Point being, there's lots of ways to write up a contract. Negotiation can be a lot of fun, it makes me feel good when I can help people for a price that makes us both happy.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Around here you really don’t see unlimited seasonal contracts minus the nationals. Everyone has some type of caps. It used to be event caps well those went away to now inch caps


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I never did...until 2013-2014. We had a few high priority accounts that we plowed over 50 times. But our numbers were based on 22. The rest were all well over 30 trips. The math doesn't work.
> 
> I tell them we will provide 2 "free" plowings before charging per trip as I am not trying to get rich by screwing them but I have to cover my costs when an abnormal season such as that hits. We've hit the max on a few accounts once or twice since then and charged.


What are you a lowballer..? My price wouldve easily absorbed double the plowing...


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

My apologies, i missed the edit, i should not have called you that...

What i meant to say was "Dutch!"


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Why inches?
> 
> Are you selling inches of snow? What about the inch here or there at the beginning or end of the season that doesn't stick to pavement? Why are you charging the customer for snow that you didn't clear?


Because it's very measurable and can be confirmed. What about the 1/2 - 3/4" of grauple, or the 1/4" of ice on a freezing rain event that usually takes a stupid amount of salt, then bridges and expands into ice cream that still needs to be plowed and salted again to make it go away. That 1/4" will use the same amount (if not more) of resources as a quick, light and fluffy 3-4" accumulation. And actually it will be documented as rain and not frozen precipitation, so none of those events will even count towards the season total. Why would you give up the easy inches when there will be the many times the tough hard inches (and non-inches) will be the ones that kick your butt? It all normally averages out over a season.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> What about the inch here or there at the beginning or end of the season that doesn't stick to pavement? Why are you charging the customer for snow that you didn't clear?


Here's another thing you may not be considering. The several inches here and there (at the beginning and end of the season) you are referring to is when the ground temps are above freezing, but the air temps are below freezing. Every parking deck and helix will require servicing to make safe. Apparently you're not considering those folks? Oh the shame...


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## bullit340 (Oct 25, 2005)

I know inches may not be the perfect answer. I also know there are sooo many variables and different ways to write up the contract. Working for the right proper manager is difficult since most seem to be price driven and need so much educating on snow management. A lot don’t know good job from a bad job. Adding in caps confuse the process when other guys are willing to go unlimited all inclusive. Some protection in an overly active winter is better than nothing. Thanks for the answers


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Seasonal For us,
No cap = unlimited plowing ,Nov 1 to April 30.
2”trigger 
We do have a storm clause which we have used a few times. ( its not very popular)
We never refund $$$.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I never did...until 2013-2014. We had a few high priority accounts that we plowed over 50 times. But our numbers were based on 22. The rest were all well over 30 trips. The math doesn't work.
> 
> I tell them we will provide 2 "free" plowings before charging per trip as I am not trying to get rich by screwing them but I have to cover my costs when an abnormal season such as that hits. We've hit the max on a few accounts once or twice since then and charged.


That was a great year!!!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> That was a great year!!!


Sez hoo???


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## bullit340 (Oct 25, 2005)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I never did...until 2013-2014. We had a few high priority accounts that we plowed over 50 times. But our numbers were based on 22. The rest were all well over 30 trips. The math doesn't work.
> 
> I tell them we will provide 2 "free" plowings before charging per trip as I am not trying to get rich by screwing them but I have to cover my costs when an abnormal season such as that hits. We've hit the max on a few accounts once or twice since then and charged.


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## bullit340 (Oct 25, 2005)

Mark,
So do you build the contract based on number of snow events/trips whether it is plowing or sanding etc...? Anything over that number gets billed per snow/ice event? Any refunds given back to customer if they don't reach the cap of snow events?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

bullit340 said:


> Mark,
> So do you build the contract based on number of snow events/trips whether it is plowing or sanding etc...? Anything over that number gets billed per snow/ice event? Any refunds given back to customer if they don't reach the cap of snow events?


Refunds (profit)....No one gives refunds.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

bullit340 said:


> Mark,
> So do you build the contract based on number of snow events/trips whether it is plowing or sanding etc...? Anything over that number gets billed per snow/ice event? Any refunds given back to customer if they don't reach the cap of snow events?


Limits are only for plowing. We don't sand (unless we're painting) and most of our salting is per application. We do have a few all-inclusive contracts however.

No refunds, I have to cover my costs. And that is why we don't start charging the first time we hit the limit. I want to be fair but also need to be profitable.


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