# Best places to keep a snow remover in business?



## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

I see Grand Rapids MI, Rochester NY, and Minneapolis, as three places within 500 miles of me that get anywhere from 2-4 times as much snow as I do in my hometown. Does this mean that these towns would likely be more profitable to do work in them? I mean, they get much more snowfall so wouldn't the snow tend to stick more and thus would allow me more driveways to blow? It's either I do this or maybe have to go back to waiting tables to get by. I'd much rather blow snow for $25-50/hr than have to be ordered around by people and have a boss to answer and only making $15/hr or less. Any suggestions or comments on this would be much appreciated!


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## KingDuramax (Nov 26, 2005)

I know there is alot of competition in Rochestor.


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

*comp*



KingDuramax;352446 said:


> I know there is alot of competition in Rochestor.


Is that right? I wonder how it is in Michigan? Hopefully it won't be too much comp. there.


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## scuba875 (Dec 22, 2004)

I think anywhere they get a good amount of snow each winter is going to have a lot of competition.


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## elmo1537 (Aug 31, 2005)

The North Pole

Russia 

Colorado

Not the northeast 

We apparently dont get snow anymore here.:angry: :angry:


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

*Colorado*



elmo1537;352527 said:


> The North Pole
> 
> Russia
> 
> ...


Yeah. Maybe I'll get a crain and hauling truck to haul the dead cows out of Colorado, there's probably more money in that than in this area. 
ha, ha ,ha, :angry:


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## JeffNY (Dec 19, 2005)

I would say Rochester is NOT the hot spot for plowing right now.


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

*no plow just blower*

I don't have a plow right now though. Just plan on getting a blower to start.


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## poncho62 (Jan 23, 2004)

*With as little snow as we are getting...................Da boys might not appreciate you movin' in on their territory......................Do you like your kneecaps???*................


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## Winter Land Man (Aug 9, 2005)

oldschoo;352445 said:


> I see Grand Rapids MI, Rochester NY, and Minneapolis, as three places within 500 miles of me that get anywhere from 2-4 times as much snow as I do in my hometown. Does this mean that these towns would likely be more profitable to do work in them? I mean, they get much more snowfall so wouldn't the snow tend to stick more and thus would allow me more driveways to blow? It's either I do this or maybe have to go back to waiting tables to get by. I'd much rather blow snow for $25-50/hr than have to be ordered around by people and have a boss to answer and only making $15/hr or less. Any suggestions or comments on this would be much appreciated!


It doesn't snow every day. The only way to make money is seasonal contracts these days but not many homeowners want to do that, and not many homeowners are going to want to pay you unless the snow is three inches or more. I run into people who want things done when it reachers 6 inches or more, as they are cheap skates. I won't plow for people like that, as the driveway gets icy and the snow gets deeper and more wear and tear on my trucks. It''ll suck for a snowblower as they don't seem to get into the packed snow.


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## Winter Land Man (Aug 9, 2005)

elmo1537;352527 said:


> The North Pole
> 
> Russia
> 
> ...


LoL San Diego, California had snow the other day, my girlfriend's friend called and said that, I didn't believe it and then I checked the radar down there... it appeared to be a mix though.


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

poncho62;352716 said:


> *With as little snow as we are getting...................Da boys might not appreciate you movin' in on their territory......................Do you like your kneecaps???*................


Some have said that it's a rat race; a dog eat dog world. I've never heard of a snow-remover having a war over teritorry. Besides, this is a free country. Assault is a crime. And anyway, I can handle myself quite well. Especially with a tire iron wesport


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## elmo1537 (Aug 31, 2005)

Assault may be a crime but it is the fact of losing your kneecaps before the other person gets arrested that worries me  I doesnt really matter where you are. I was reading another one of your post and I wonder. Do you think that snow removal is a fast way to make money? 

I worry about this because it seems all you want to do is make 25-50 dollars an hour. If you stop and factor in all of the cost associated with snow removal you really dont make 25-50 dollars per hour. Factor this in liability insurance, fuel, equipment replacement, cost of living and then labor. 

Insurance
So you are saying I am only a little guy. Well think about this you are doing a driveway for $35 you can do 2 in one hour. Thats $70 dollars an hour (which is what some top excecutive (sp) make an hour). You blow 10 driveways. $350 not bad for a days work. You go home loving you just made the most money in one day ever. Then the phone rings apparently the second house that you did you threw a rock through a french glass door. Guess who is going to have to replace it :crying: :realmad: So at a price of 1500 dollars you replace the door out of pocket because you didnt have insurance. Quick math tell me that now you got paid nothing for all of the work you just completed and you will even have to work three full days to make up what you lost.

Fuel
Duh Combustion Engines need fuel to work properly.

Equipment Replacement
That Sears snowblower isnt going to last forever if you are lucky one season. Judging by the price you are going to pay for it. You will be buying two every season if you really want to go big time.

Cost of living 
The idea that i have gotten by reading some of your other post is that you plan on going to a city getting a hotel room and living out of that while you and your girlfriend go around knocking on doors asking people if they want there driveway snowblown. Hotels are not cheap. Most of the people you will find especially if you have not been in the area for long will be the cheapskate that will only pay 10 or 20 dollars to the kid walking around town with a snowblower because they figure that he is only doing this to make a little money.

Labor 
Do you really think you girlfriend is going to put up with being in the cold knocking on doors only to have them slammed in her face for very long with out getting paid a significant amount of your profit. 

Insurance $50 month =10 bucks per event or so
Fuel = ten gallons @3.00 per gallon 15 per event
Equipment replacement = el cheapo blower $500 Replacement $15 per event
Cost of Living = $100 per day/ per event not including food
Labor for girlfriend $10 hr $100

20 driveways @ $20 = 400 dollars 

So after all of this you will make about $14.50 an hour. 

Was this really worth ten hours of your day freezing your a$$ off.

I didnt go into real detail you will have to pay for food, fuel for your vehicle if you plan on driving to another city of your choice or whatever. 

I am not trying to be a jerkoff but snow removal is not a get rich quick business. If you want to get rich quick play the lotto your odd are much better


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## LMG Masonry Inc (Jan 14, 2007)

Amen Elmo !! You'd be better off getting a job for a snow removal contractor, Think you would make more money w/ less hassel.


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

Insurance
So you are saying I am only a little guy. Well think about this you are doing a driveway for $35 you can do 2 in one hour. Thats $70 dollars an hour (which is what some top excecutive (sp) make an hour). You blow 10 driveways. $350 not bad for a days work. You go home loving you just made the most money in one day ever. Then the phone rings apparently the second house that you did you threw a rock through a french glass door. Guess who is going to have to replace it :crying: :realmad: So at a price of 1500 dollars you replace the door out of pocket because you didnt have insurance. Quick math tell me that now you got paid nothing for all of the work you just completed and you will even have to work three full days to make up what you lost.
Cost of living
The idea that i have gotten by reading some of your other post is that you plan on going to a city getting a hotel room and living out of that while you and your girlfriend go around knocking on doors asking people if they want there driveway snowblown. Hotels are not cheap. Most of the people you will find especially if you have not been in the area for long will be the cheapskate that will only pay 10 or 20 dollars to the kid walking around town with a snowblower because they figure that he is only doing this to make a little money.
Insurance $50 month =10 bucks per event or so
Fuel = ten gallons @3.00 per gallon 15 per event
Equipment replacement = el cheapo blower $500 Replacement $15 per event
Cost of Living = $100 per day/ per event not including food
Labor for girlfriend $10 hr $100
20 driveways @ $20 = 400 dollars
So after all of this you will make about $14.50 an hour.
Was this really worth ten hours of your day freezing your a$$ off.
I didnt go into real detail you will have to pay for food said:


> I appreciate the time u spent on this reply and info. But it seems like cinisismn compared to most the other guys on here. None of them were so discouraging! It's going to snow in my own town now anyway. So this will increase the profit margin quite a bit. I've never heard of a snow thrower buying insurance. Is this common? I don't plan on aiming the chute at any french windows, cars, people, or anything dumb like that anyway!


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## 1lowGMC (Dec 1, 2006)

Rochester is not a good place this year. We have had 1 plowable snowfall of 4" about a month ago, and thats it. I'm putting my plow on tonight, but I don't think we are gonna see much over the next few days, it looks like everything is just north of us.:realmad:


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## ksgcapecod (Feb 13, 2006)

Oldschoo,

I don't believe Elmo was trying to be a jerk to you. I believe that he is trying to get you to look at the big picture. Granted, no one is going to intentionally aim the chute at a french door, house, vehicle, or person. Unfortunately, accidents do happen and if you happen to be snow blowing for that one homeowner who does not understand that accidents do happen and and he wants the money to replace that shattered french door, well you own it. At least with insurance you will not have to pay out of your pocket. Remember, no matter how careful any of us try to be Murphy's Law is always looming. If you decide to do things your way good luck, I hope you make what your expecting. Just think about all your costs involved, travel time, fuel, etc. before you come up with a price that you want to charge.


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## LMG Masonry Inc (Jan 14, 2007)

Don't take it personal oldschoo he's from NY, probably in waste management? Think he's just saying better to be safe than sorry. But if you are in biz and will be claiming your income you should have Insurance. You never know the neighbors chihuahua might run into the auger and get chewed up?? We all go out and hope that bad things won't happen but if they do you want to cover your ace. If your doing it on the side thats fine too, I do know that there are large contractors around here that are paying $15.00 an hour to shovel, when I say shovel they are using an enclosed and heated piece of equipment and are working lots of hrs.Think you would make more $$$$ that is when it snows and if it snows again? 
Good luck in your decision.payup payup


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

*insurance, ect*



ksgcapecod;353225 said:


> Oldschoo,
> 
> I don't believe Elmo was trying to be a jerk to you. I believe that he is trying to get you to look at the big picture. Granted, no one is going to intentionally aim the chute at a french door, house, vehicle, or person. Unfortunately, accidents do happen and if you happen to be snow blowing for that one homeowner who does not understand that accidents do happen and and he wants the money to replace that shattered french door, well you own it. At least with insurance you will not have to pay out of your pocket. Remember, no matter how careful any of us try to be Murphy's Law is always looming. If you decide to do things your way good luck, I hope you make what your expecting. Just think about all your costs involved, travel time, fuel, etc. before you come up with a price that you want to charge.


I understand. I'm just a bigtime optimist so it's hard for me to stoop like that in my thinking. But if it's $50/month, that's pretty reasonable.
I just hope it's not manditory. I don't want to get insurance and all that if I'm only going to be getting a few houses here and there.


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

LMG Masonry Inc;353237 said:


> Don't take it personal oldschoo he's from NY, probably in waste management? Think he's just saying better to be safe than sorry. But if you are in biz and will be claiming your income you should have Insurance. You never know the neighbors chihuahua might run into the auger and get chewed up?? We all go out and hope that bad things won't happen but if they do you want to cover your ace. If your doing it on the side thats fine too, I do know that there are large contractors around here that are paying $15.00 an hour to shovel, when I say shovel they are using an enclosed and heated piece of equipment and are working lots of hrs.Think you would make more $$$$ that is when it snows and if it snows again?
> Good luck in your decision.payup payup


I'm expecting to net at least $20 or more per hour or I'd just soon go with one of my other business ventures or back to waiting tables for $15. It would seem to me that it would be the persons fault if they let there dog run into my machine like that. Kind of an act of God u know.
But if insur. is only $50/mo, that's not bad.


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## elmo1537 (Aug 31, 2005)

I am not trying to put you down. I just want you to look at the whole picture first. 

Unfortunately if you look in the yellow pages there are more lawyers than there are landscapers or snow removal contractor. If a dog ran into you auger I am sure they would find some way to prove that it was your fault and definitly not a act of god. 

Just look at all of the facts first. 

The fifty dollars a month was off the top of my head. It could be more or less. Just think of it this way. 

It may be expensive if you have 2 customers but once you have 20 customers fifty dollars is nothing. In fact it may be cheaper than buying the shots of jack that you will after that dog ran through the auger and you dye the neighbors lawn red.


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## MrBigStuff (Oct 4, 2005)

*The other side of the coin*

I wouldn't allow someone without insurance to do work on my property. I could be sued if they got hurt or hurt someone else while I was contracting the work.

I wouldn't perform professional work (for pay) on someone else's property without insurance. It doesn't matter if you were even there, they could *claim* you did it. Now you're defending yourself and just as likely to spend big $$ defending yourself.

When it's for money, it's best to have insurance. Like someone said, the list of lawyers far and away exceeds the list of any other profession and this is a litiguous society we live in. People draw their lawyer's name like a gun.

For risk, I'll take the lottery. At least I know how much I'm risking...


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

Just wanna make sure I'm going to get enough biz to justify it. I'm planning on doing neighbors mainly anyway. But the point is well taken. I've never heard of a kid that does people's lawns have insurance. BUt then again, it sounds like a thrower is much more likely to do damage.


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## NCass31 (Dec 5, 2006)

you were right in saying that a kid doing lawns usually doesn't have insurance, but a kid doing lawns isn't doing it fo make a living...if he continued to do lawns, when he could afford it, i imagine that he would get insurance. its a double-edged sword, the whole thing is really... you don't have insurance and something happens, you're screwed; if something doesn't happen and you HAVE it, it may seem like wasted money. along the same lines, buying a snowblower, or a plow, is double edged as well. buy a plow, wish for snow, struggling on payments because you have insurance and truck payments but no snow, or maybe theres snow and no accounts.. take a step or stay on solid ground, intially... if you think you will have the personal accounts then buy the blower, throw some flyers up around you town or neighborhood, see if you get any feedback. make sure you look at the property before it snows, it will lower your chances of destroying property, injuring yourself, or someone else. anyways, good luck with it either way you go..and pray for snow.


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

*snowin' in indy*

Well it's snowing some in Indy now. It's reported to be snowing for the rest of the week pretty much. I'm going to be cautious of course. It's really great to have people responding like this. I'm learning a lot and so I'll make an informed decision from here on out! Thank u!


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## MrBigStuff (Oct 4, 2005)

*Ins*

That kid probably doesn't have any assets at risk (unless there's a trust fund in waiting). It's when you have assets or are gainfully employed then you have to start thinking about what you could lose. The good news is, they can only take all of it. After that you can rest easy.  
(actually, they can attach any future earnings but the lawyers like to go after the easy money first and foremost).

Best of luck on your ventures!!


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

MrBigStuff;356803 said:


> That kid probably doesn't have any assets at risk (unless there's a trust fund in waiting). It's when you have assets or are gainfully employed then you have to start thinking about what you could lose. The good news is, they can only take all of it. After that you can rest easy.
> (actually, they can attach any future earnings but the lawyers like to go after the easy money first and foremost).
> 
> Best of luck on your ventures!!


Well I may be a kid to u guys but I wasn't born yesterday either! I've been just using shuvels and it appears that they work faster than the guys we saw with blowers anyway. It's pretty damn hard to damage property or cut up a dog with a shuvel. No insurance required = payup


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## MrBigStuff (Oct 4, 2005)

*Misunderstood*

No one is calling you a kid. Someone used an example of a kid with a shovel not needing insurance. My post explains why that is possible. And I still maintain that as a landowner, I wouldn't want you even shoveling my property without insurance in case you fell or otherwise hurt yourself. I had a bunch of people quote me for a roof job last summer. Half of them did not have insurance. They were ruled out immediately.

Shoveling is hard, manual labor. Great workout and I applaud your ability to do it for extended periods. But, being hard manual labor, there is risk of injury. Not to mention the added risk of slips and falls. Let's assume you never injure yourself. How can you cause any damage with a shovel? Not too hard to imagine; slicing through a cable like cable TV or dog fence, breaking that lawn ornament the owners forgot to move, damaging the low voltage lighting and so on and so forth. You think the owner isn't going to demand compensation? When they call the cable company and get a $150 bill for fixing the cut cable line, you will be the next call they make.

If you've been around as long as you say you have (especially with a handle like oldschoo), you know that anything is possible and in fact likely to happen if you expose yourself long enough to the risk. You've beat the odds so far but past performance is no guarantee of the future, as they say.


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

*insurance*

If i was getting at least 3-4 days a week work I might go ahead and spend $50 a month on insurance ( if that's what it is). But I've only had one day of snow this year in Indy and I'm not going to spend my $ on insurance. Food is more important right now. lol My shuvels are plastic too so it may be kinda hard to hit a cable line. I don't know any idiot cable companies that would run a line up a driveway or right by a side walk either. That would be like 1/999,000 or something. I'm knowledgaeble about cable lines anyway so I could repair or replace one myself if it came down to it. At the most it would cost would be around $20! So I'm confident and I've got the Lord in my life. He's the best insurance and money can't buy that!


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## elmo1537 (Aug 31, 2005)

oldschoo;357484 said:


> I've got the Lord in my life. He's the best insurance and money can't buy that!


Now you have gone a little far. I believe in God and I think that is abusing it a little bit. A lot of people have the lord in their life but that doesnt mean they dont have to carry car insurance on there vehicles. God is not a bouncer or a security blanket that as long as you believe in him and have him in your life that nothing wrong will ever happen. Do you really think that the customer is going to care if you have the Lord in your life after you broke there lawn ornaments.

Plain and simple GET INSURANCE if you cant afford it get out. If you cant afford car insurance does that mean you still drive.

I have tried to be nice in my previous post but I really get sick of ignorant people getting on this website and telling professionals that insurance isnt really needed. I have to bid against you. I pay my bills with the money I make. I buy clothes for my kids with this money. There should be laws against fly by night people like you because it is the low ballers like you that make real professionals life so difficult.

I love competion because I think it makes everyone just have to try that much harder to be the best but I can't even consider you competion if you can't even follow good business guidelines and practices.

One of the biggest thing about believing in God is that you are supposed to do what is right (getting insurance). Maybe you should stop thinking of God as your insurance company. Because last time I check God doesnt make court appearances:realmad: :realmad:


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

elmo1537;357693 said:


> Now you have gone a little far. I believe in God and I think that is abusing it a little bit. A lot of people have the lord in their life but that doesnt mean they dont have to carry car insurance on there vehicles. God is not a bouncer or a security blanket that as long as you believe in him and have him in your life that nothing wrong will ever happen. Do you really think that the customer is going to care if you have the Lord in your life after you broke there lawn ornaments.
> 
> Plain and simple GET INSURANCE if you cant afford it get out. If you cant afford car insurance does that mean you still drive.
> 
> ...


What r u some kind of insurance salesman? Let me ask u this: If u can't afford life insurance do u still live? Or if u can't afford dental insurance do u still eat? Do u get insurance in case u bump into somebody afraid that they'll sue? I'll handle what happens and things will be alright. If u deny the power of faith, then u have NOTHING but fear! 
And u have no idea what I know and sound quite ignorant yourself. I've not insulted u and yet u do me. Now that is ignorant plain and simple. I'm not going to waste my precious time on. I'll make my money cause I'm a hustler. I think u are just scared I'm going to make u look bad or take away biz from u or one of your friends. And dude, I'm no fly by night. I get the job done right. I know what it means to build. U are only interested in getting in my way so please just drop it cause this is the last I'm going to respond:angry: 
It's funny how u seem to be putting so much feeling and emotion into something like this.
Well best of luck and I hope u get an attitude adjustment. When u underestimate God then ur asking for trouble!


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## elmo1537 (Aug 31, 2005)

You nailed it on the head. I am afraid of you taking away my business. From how many states away? Yes you did insult me and every other professional on this site when you decided to be a "hustler" and low ball. I dont care if you have life insurance because frankly it is not affecting anyone else but the people that choose to be around you. I dont care if you have dental insurance because they are your teeth not mine. 

I do care when you go onto a property and low ball a job and take food off the table of a real professional just to be a "hustler". 

Of course I am putting a lot of feeling and emotions into this thread (I usually stay away from these for this very reason) I have spent many years building a customer base (the correct way) and have had lowballer just like you bid against me. Sometimes they will win. Then the customer realizes what a mistake was made when the snow actually flies. The funny thing is I have never lost a customer to a lowballer that the customer either calls me in the middle of the season or asks me to do it the next year because the lowballer didnt work out. 

The customer I have retained realize that when something happens (accidents do happen) they are covered. Can you say the same? Actually no your response is " I'll handle what happens and things will be alright."

I wouldn't care what you did if you didnt do it half a$$, as mentioned before I like competition but only when it is on a level playing field. If you want to build as you say do it correctly and I will not have any problem with that but apparently the cost of running a real business is just too much for you.

I have nothing to fear because when I break a window I make one phone call to my insurance company and it is fixed. (I have never actually broken a window).

I dont underestimate God but I also dont believe he is going to be my safety net when I make uswise decisions.
 :realmad: 
Try waiting tables I hear the competition is fierce and you dont even have to have insurance.


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

*reply to the book writer*

I'm not going 2 waste my time on that. I'm a hustler and we make the real money in the end. Not people who sit around and look for trouble!


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## MrBigStuff (Oct 4, 2005)

*Ok*



oldschoo;357484 said:


> If i was getting at least 3-4 days a week work I might go ahead and spend $50 a month on insurance ( if that's what it is). But I've only had one day of snow this year in Indy and I'm not going to spend my $ on insurance. Food is more important right now. lol My shuvels are plastic too so it may be kinda hard to hit a cable line. I don't know any idiot cable companies that would run a line up a driveway or right by a side walk either. That would be like 1/999,000 or something. I'm knowledgaeble about cable lines anyway so I could repair or replace one myself if it came down to it. At the most it would cost would be around $20! So I'm confident and I've got the Lord in my life. He's the best insurance and money can't buy that!


The saying that comes to mind is: ignorance is bliss.


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## scuba875 (Dec 22, 2004)

oldschoo;357860 said:


> I'm not going 2 waste my time on that. I'm a hustler and we make the real money in the end. Not people who sit around and look for trouble!


I own a repair business and I had to work a full time job to survive my first 2 years in business. I worked both jobs and It was hard I am not going to lie to you. My insurance was and is a great deal more then $50 a month because of the type of equipment I work on. In fact I didn't gross enough in my first year to even cover the insurance let alone the rest of the overhead.

I understand what you are saying about not wanting to fork out that cash if you aren't making it but that is a part of working for yourself. Being self emplooyeed isn't all that people think it is. Often it is a lot worse then working for someone. Don't get me wrong it has it's perks to but it's not always a bed of roses.

There is a lot of things I have had to pay that it just killed me to write a check for. A lot of time I didn't even take a paycheck because it was slow and this stuff had to be paid to keep the business going.

Trust me no one here giving you advice likes to pay insurance. I hate it, I have had no claims in 10 years and my rates go up each year. I paid more for insurance last year then I made personaly. Now if that don't make you sick I don't know what will.

I am not trying to tell you what to do and I am sure most people here could care a less if you get insurance. I think maybe just step back for a second and look at all the advice. Most people are just telling you to protect yourself.

I am Just offering a little friendly advice so I hope you don't take it the wrong way. What ever you decide to do in the end thats your business.

I wish you the best of luck.


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## PremierLand (Jun 11, 2004)

there is a TON of competition in Michigan. Just look at the networking. Which ever has the most posts, usually means that state has the most competition. and dont go around charging those low prices, you wont make any money. If your going to be in this business, figure out your costs so your not lowballing everyone. Especially in michigan, its bad enough with all these big three guys getting out of their job taking 50k to leave their job, they then buy a plow truck and start bidding jobs at 1/4 they should be. Pisses me off. People dont know or realize how much it really costs per hour to plow snow.

Truck:
atleast a 3/4ton
Insurance:
Liability
Vechicle 
Snowplowing
Fuel
Computer for billing
Paper
Ink
Plow
Salt
Salt Spreader
Phone
Taxes
other Liabilites
Shovels

and there are MANY more costs, plus YOUR time, if YOU VALUE YOUR TIME, you will not undercharge.

You might think your making good money if your grossing $1500 per storm, but after you pay for all that stuff including repairs or payments, you could verywell be in the negative.

Good luck and think about how much it costs per hour before you go bidding jobs and undercharging people bringing everyone else down.

*Most importantly:*
The state should have a mandated License to plow snow and enforce it. ALL the citys need to make snowplow companies get permits for $50-$100 and if they dont have a permit fine them $1000 (just like weighted licesnse plates work), and on top of that they should make snow plow companies give the citys they are working in $5,000 bonds incase they hit something (fire hydrgren, lights, etc.). If they did all that we wouldnt have as many people in the industry.


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## ProWorkz.com (Nov 29, 2004)

*Low baller?*



> I do care when you go onto a property and low ball a job and take food off the table of a real professional just to be a "hustler".


I hear the term "low baller" all the time. Here is my take on the situation. Just like in all business that deals with contracts or bids. The company with the best price and and marketing skills get the job. I feel sorry for the guy who has so much over head that he can not compete with his prices. I plow snow in my area cheaper than other company. Why? Because I can. I only have 3 accounts. The smallest account is 245 condos. Largest is 285 condos. I had these accounts for 6 years and even have a 3 car garage supplied by one of the condos to keep my equipment in year round at no charge.

Do I stay in business because I low ball? Not a chance. I stay in business because I save the customer thousands of dollars a year. And do EXCELLENT work.

So anyone that wants to talk about low ball'in please take a look at your operation. Maybe snow removal is not for you. I have the 3 largest account in my area? Why? Because I am a TRUE HUSTLER.....

Believe that.....

Oldschoo keep pushing forward bro.... You wil figure out how you want to run your operation. Nothing gained if you never try....!!! I

nsurance is important. I carry a 5 million dollar policy year round and am bonded for $500,000. Winter make me excellent money. But I also have 6 water trucks that run year round. I am only 36 and have been Hustling since I was born.....

Dave


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

*bliss*



MrBigStuff;357913 said:


> The saying that comes to mind is: ignorance is bliss.


Then some of the people on here must be really blissing out! The insurance companies are proud of ya'll. Helping them to enlarge even more their multi-trillion dollar industry!


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

scuba875;357924 said:


> I own a repair business and I had to work a full time job to survive my first 2 years in business. I worked both jobs and It was hard I am not going to lie to you. My insurance was and is a great deal more then $50 a month because of the type of equipment I work on. In fact I didn't gross enough in my first year to even cover the insurance let alone the rest of the overhead.
> 
> I understand what you are saying about not wanting to fork out that cash if you aren't making it but that is a part of working for yourself. Being self emplooyeed isn't all that people think it is. Often it is a lot worse then working for someone. Don't get me wrong it has it's perks to but it's not always a bed of roses.
> 
> ...


Now this kind of man is one that will get listened to! Someone that knows how to give advice and not talk out the side of his a$$. Thank u for the refreshing reply!


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

*lowballing, ect*



PremierLand;357998 said:


> there is a TON of competition in Michigan. Just look at the networking. Which ever has the most posts, usually means that state has the most competition. and dont go around charging those low prices, you wont make any money. If your going to be in this business, figure out your costs so your not lowballing everyone. Especially in michigan, its bad enough with all these big three guys getting out of their job taking 50k to leave their job, they then buy a plow truck and start bidding jobs at 1/4 they should be. Pisses me off. People dont know or realize how much it really costs per hour to plow snow.
> 
> Truck:
> atleast a 3/4ton
> ...


I'm just shuveling snow at the present. If I wanted to go big like a lotta u guys, I'd get the insurance, ect. I'm well aware of how to calculate expenses. Mine aren't very high right now. If I have to do things at lower rates to stay in biz, then so be it. How do u think Walmart became so successful? Well, that's at least one of the reasons.


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

*True Hustlers*



ProWorkz.com;358003 said:


> I have the 3 largest account in my area? Why? Because I am a TRUE HUSTLER.....
> 
> Believe that.....
> 
> ...


Thanks Dave 4 the encouragement! I agree with u totally. U must provide excellent value and service to the customer, not just the lowest rates. Yeah!


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## ProWorkz.com (Nov 29, 2004)

*Thats right.....*










The plate says it all........ My six six Impala......

Click her for a listen to my six six Impala

Dave


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

That's where it's at! Man! I love that Impala! Good lookin' kid too!


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## ProWorkz.com (Nov 29, 2004)

*thanks*



oldschoo;358278 said:


> That's where it's at! Man! I love that Impala! Good lookin' kid too!


Thanks for the compliments..... The picture of my son is a little cheezy.... Here is a better picture of the little stud.....


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## scuba875 (Dec 22, 2004)

PremierLand;357998 said:


> *Most importantly:*
> The state should have a mandated License to plow snow and enforce it. ALL the citys need to make snowplow companies get permits for $50-$100 and if they dont have a permit fine them $1000 (just like weighted licesnse plates work), and on top of that they should make snow plow companies give the citys they are working in $5,000 bonds incase they hit something (fire hydrgren, lights, etc.). If they did all that we wouldnt have as many people in the industry.


How would that affect your subs if you use any?

I only sub for a guy, I don't have any of my own accounts. My route takes me to three different towns. There is no way I am going to hand out $5,000 let alone $15,000 in bonds to make what a couple of thousand at best. I would be better off investing that money and staying home. For me to even think about laying out $15,000, I would need to gross 4 times that a year.

The problem you would run into as a sub with a permit is what if the company you work for needs you to fill in at a location in a town you don't normally do? Now you have to turn down the work or risk a $1K fine.

This would also cause a huge problem for the company. How would they get the job done if their trucks are all tied up doing the stuff they have those trucks scheduled for?

Now if they did it at the state level that would be different and I wouldn't mind paying $50 or even a $100 for a permit to operate but not at the city or county level.

I think these kinds of things would place a huge burden on all companies and would hurt them more then it would help.


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## oldschoo (Jan 12, 2007)

ProWorkz.com;358496 said:


> Thanks for the compliments..... The picture of my son is a little cheezy.... Here is a better picture of the little stud.....
> 
> 
> 
> > Ha, ha, haaa. I remember when I was that age. It's nice to not have a care in the world!


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