# Opinions for the 2015-16 season



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

This HOA calls me every year to bid on it. Don't care for it because it's all driveways and a small road to the back homes. Every year they have someone else plowing it and I've watched them, They all do the same thing back drag and push up at the approach because there is not much room in between the driveways. To be fair they have no control over the main street because the town plows it. If I was to bid and to be fair to me I'd bid it with the use of a snowblower on a skid or maybe a back plow on the truck.As for the main road I have no problem running the lane to benefit me,


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Here are pix from today


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

Looks like they do not clean right up to the Doors.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Town Plows the road???


Looks like a perfect property for an inverted blower to me....


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Defcon 5;1960085 said:


> Town Plows the road???
> 
> Looks like a perfect property for an inverted blower to me....


The townhouses are the HOA but it's on a public road. Even though some of the drives are smaller and others are bigger the price is the same for everyone. The town plows the lighter looking road and contractor the darker ones.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Are they unhappy with the way the company is doing it now, other than the lack of cleaning up in some of the pictures.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Brian Young;1960099 said:


> Are they unhappy with the way the company is doing it now, other than the lack of cleaning up in some of the pictures.


6 yrs and 5 different contractors.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

What are they paying now?


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

grandview;1960103 said:


> 6 yrs and 5 different contractors.


I'd flat out ask them why they've gone through so many. By the looks of the last few pictures they aren't very detailed. One thing about these types of places is your trying to keep everyone happy and thats near impossible. We had our big condo's for 8 years and babysat this place 24/7 and the one lady who we apparently pissed off at one point or another became president and looked elsewhere. Of course it's nowhere near as nice and neat now but as long as they're happy right,lol.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

These places are getting close to 20 yrs old,I don't think they ever complained,just bad picking. Their lawyer tells them not to shovel the sidewalks also.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

grandview;1960103 said:


> 6 yrs and 5 different contractors.


What makes you think they will be happy and content with you???...Seems like they have a track record going here.....


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

It might be just be my "downsizing" mindset, but I'd avoid the hassle of setting up the equipment and labor for a one year job.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Defcon 5;1960133 said:


> What makes you think they will be happy and content with you???...Seems like they have a track record going here.....


Might as well get on the boat.



leigh;1960140 said:


> It might be just be my "downsizing" mindset, but I'd avoid the hassle of setting up the equipment and labor for a one year job.


I have a guy who sits on his ass all winter from his other job so that's ok there.Equipment I'd go rent a skid and blower and build it right into the 1st payment do before it even snows, So if they want out it's paid for.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Looks like a nice account.....For the right price go for it.....


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

The problem with condominium people, is that they want 5 star service, but only want to pay a 1 star price. And even then, they feel like you're screwing them.

That being said, that looks like a good place for an inverted blower.


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

Id say go for it. Since you have a available guy thats a nice site to keep a guy busy. A skid with blower or toolcat with blower would be perfect. Seems like a farly decent size property, do they want salted? By the pic you could probaly keep a guy busy there 4 or 5 hours or more. A job like that is nice because you should be able to make a nice chunk of money after you pay 1 guy to maintain it for you and you have your own route so your doing good. Go for it!


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

excav8ter;1960181 said:


> The problem with condominium people, is that they want 5 star service, but only want to pay a 1 star price. And even then, they feel like you're screwing them.
> 
> That being said, that looks like a good place for an inverted blower.


I agree, you have x many number of homeowners and everyone has something to say. We did a 75 unit complex years ago that was made up of mostly seniors and they were all home during storms and they all had special request's. Major pita if you ask me.


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

@Grandview. .. how many drives? 41, 42?
do a rather complex development with my inverted. Do you have an inverted?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Looks like a perfect per push account!payuppayup













Just kidding "King of all things seasonal":salute:


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Take some time with the contract. Pepper it with stipulations and exact scope of work. And shoot for a 3 year or better contract. Explain the overhead costs involved, get them to sign, and buy the machine..rentals have their place, but owning is better in the long run....you can rent it out if you don't have your own work..

What is that place worth as a 3 year seasonal? Wild guess for me is 10k a year?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Buswell Forest;1960776 said:


> Take some time with the contract. Pepper it with stipulations and exact scope of work. And shoot for a 3 year or better contract. Explain the overhead costs involved, get them to sign, and buy the machine..rentals have their place, but owning is better in the long run....you can rent it out if you don't have your own work..
> 
> *What is that place worth as a 3 year seasonal? Wild guess for me is 10k a year*?


Don't quote seasonals much,do you?


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

Our area is pretty low on pricing, but some quick figuring, assuming it's close to my route, no shoveling, 2" trigger, 25 events per year.... $8,750.00


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

49 Driveways, sidewalks and parts of the roads 10K a year? Not me. Looks like they get about 70" of snow a year 20-30 snow events? This is 8 hours solid with only 10 minutes per driveway and sidewalk.

Not that it really matters all that much, But I get $45 for a driveway and sidewalk like these. No roads. No volume discounts.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Plow only ,no sidewalks no salt. Driveways only ,except for that small u shape at the end.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

grandview;1960795 said:


> Plow only ,no sidewalks no salt. Driveways only ,except for that small u shape at the end.


Do you have to clean out by hand to the garage door? 
So No Hand work?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

maxwellp;1960799 said:


> Do you have to clean out by hand to the garage door?
> So No Hand work?


Plow control in one hand coffee in the other and my slippers on.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

grandview;1960803 said:


> Plow control in one hand coffee in the other and my slippers on.


Ok
That would be a nice one to land!
I would still get $35 a pop for 2 inches.


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

maxwellp;1960806 said:


> Ok
> That would be a nice one to land!
> I would still get $35 a pop for 2 inches.


Every market is different. ..


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

maxwellp;1960806 said:


> Ok
> That would be a nice one to land!
> I would still get $35 a pop for 2 inches.


That's high even for me.


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

grandview;1960809 said:


> That's high even for me.


condo associations by us expect us to bid them by the time, not per driveway. We have some that vary, when broken down, from $6 per driveway to $14 per driveway. Sounds cheap, but with the inverted blower some condo drives are less than a minute. The "big" ones take 3 minutes.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

So if I invest in faster more expensive equipment, I should lower my price? 
Why? 
Just saying☺


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

maxwellp;1960830 said:


> So if I invest in faster more expensive equipment, I should lower my price?
> Why?
> Just saying☺


Not that, based on your price your seasonal price would be 56,000.00 for the season. or 875.00 per driveway seasonal pricing.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

maxwellp;1960081 said:


> Looks like they do not clean right up to the Doors.


Lots of regions do not require that occur. Usually ones in higher snowfall areas.

You want it cleared to the doors, it's going to cost you. A lot.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

maxwellp;1960788 said:


> 49 Driveways, sidewalks and parts of the roads 10K a year? Not me. Looks like they get about 70" of snow a year 20-30 snow events? This is 8 hours solid with only 10 minutes per driveway and sidewalk.
> 
> Not that it really matters all that much, But I get $45 for a driveway and sidewalk like these. No roads. No volume discounts.


You need a lesson in snowplowing if you're going to take 10 minutes per drive.

And I am definitely living in the wrong area if you can get $45 for a drive like this.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

excav8ter;1960817 said:


> condo associations by us expect us to bid them by the time, not per driveway. We have some that vary, when broken down, from $6 per driveway to $14 per driveway. Sounds cheap, but with the inverted blower some condo drives are less than a minute. The "big" ones take 3 minutes.


Thumbs Up

This place is perfect for an inverted blower\tractor setup.

Although the way they go through contractors, I wouldn't touch it.


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

I was guess-timating 3 to 3.5 hours with my inverted blower. 3 minutes a drive and a bit for the "road".


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;1961001 said:


> Thumbs Up
> 
> This place is perfect for an inverted blower\tractor setup.
> 
> Although the way they go through contractors, I wouldn't touch it.


I bet if they had someone with an inverted, who knew how to do it well, they would have a hard time finding things to complain about. That's what i am finding.... the job is so neat and clean, with no "piles" that all they can say is "wow, that's a neat machine, why don't more people use them?"


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

Mark Oomkes;1961000 said:


> You need a lesson in snowplowing if you're going to take 10 minutes per drive.
> 
> And I am definitely living in the wrong area if you can get $45 for a drive like this.


No I don't.Thumbs Up
10 minutes includes sidewalks, clean right up to the garage door and front door.
If this is not sold with that job - there is a lot of money left on the table. 
I do get $45 for driveway like this. payup


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

maxwellp;1960830 said:


> so if i invest in faster more expensive equipment, i should lower my price?
> Why?
> Just saying☺


exactly!!!


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

maxwellp;1961039 said:


> No I don't.Thumbs Up
> 10 minutes includes sidewalks, clean right up to the garage door and front door.
> If this is not sold with that job - there is a lot of money left on the table.
> I do get $45 for driveway like this. payup


Maxwellp. ... do you plow many condo associations like this?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

With a quick figuring,I'd be about 500.00 per driveway for the season.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I need to move to Lancaster.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

grandview;1960803 said:


> Plow control in one hand coffee in the other and my slippers on.


And losing weight the whole damn time!


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

grandview;1961117 said:


> With a quick figuring,I'd be about 500.00 per driveway for the season.


Is that how you typically price an association like that, in your area? Per driveway and then multiply it by the quantity of units?


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;1961000 said:


> You need a lesson in snowplowing if you're going to take 10 minutes per drive.
> 
> And I am definitely living in the wrong area if you can get $45 for a drive like this.


He said 10 min for drive and walk. Without the walks that place is simple, I wouldn't do it without a pull plow on the truck. Skid or tractor is what I would do there.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;1961131 said:


> I need to move to Lancaster.


Stay where you are,I don't need Erie Pa pricing here.



excav8ter;1961140 said:


> Is that how you typically price an association like that, in your area? Per driveway and then multiply it by the quantity of units?


They want an equal price for each driveway,so its an average then multiply by units.


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

grandview;1961151 said:


> Stay where you are,I don't need Erie Pa pricing here.
> 
> They want an equal price for each driveway,so its an average then multiply by units.


I see. Thanks. I do some condo associations where the drives vary in size, from small 2 stall, to large 3 stall garages that are set at angle to the road. We have to look at each association as a whole, and price it that way. No matter the differences between one drive and another. Then submit a lump some, per push price.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Might just as well throw out some outrageous east coast pricing into the mix, 1100$ x average events.In my case 12-15, average snowfall 30".


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## pohouse (Jan 26, 2009)

I would want to know why they change contractors every year. Price should be based on the level of service they are willing to pay for. Is it a one time after the storm push, or multiple visits? What about when the town plows the end of the drives in? Like someone mentioned, usually HOA's want first class service but don't want to pay for it. 
On the other hand, with the right machine (inverted) you could put all those previous contractors to shame and have a nice contract for years. Its one of those jobs that if your going to do it, commit to the right equipment or walk away.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

grandview;1960780 said:


> Don't quote seasonals much,do you?


I forgot. In Beefalo that would be a $199 per year seasonal, any you could plow it 39 times and still make $179 profit.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

grandview;1961117 said:


> With a quick figuring,I'd be about 500.00 per driveway for the season.


And with my quick figuring the guy that does is now is most likely close to half that.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Buswell Forest;1961312 said:


> I forgot. In Beefalo that would be a $199 per year seasonal, any you could plow it 39 times and still make $179 profit.


That would be pricing in Rochester,


JD Dave;1961329 said:


> And with my quick figuring the guy that does is now is most likely close to half that.


And that's why it's only plowed half the time!


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

My bad. I get them confused.


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## snowplower1 (Jan 15, 2014)

hey now leave rochester alone!! but yeah we suck


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

So what the specs of the bid? Are they doing whats ask or did they drop the ball? Whys the prop looks so bad?

Thats alot of snow you guys deal with for a little $$


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Flawless440;1961384 said:


> So what the specs of the bid? Are they doing whats ask or did they drop the ball? Whys the prop looks so bad?
> 
> Thats alot of snow you guys deal with for a little $$


I thought I still had the email.They sent me a note that looked like it was written on an envelope.3 lines.
Nov.1st to Apr 1st
plow snow starting around 2 inches 
before 7am or after 4pm
that was it.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

grandview;1961407 said:


> I thought I still had the email.They sent me a note that looked like it was written on an envelope.3 lines.
> Nov.1st to Apr 1st
> plow snow starting around 2 inches
> before 7am or after 4pm
> that was it.


If you're there between 7 and 4, you're trespassing


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

So what is the minimum tractor size for an inverted blower?


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

holy crap lots of snow! no cars in the driveways usually huh?

i'd send a skid out there with a high flow 72-84" blower and let em rip. Having to always back drag would be a pain, id hope for deice only or at least 4+ inches for every storm.


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

grandview;1962321 said:


> So what is the minimum tractor size for an inverted blower?


My Normand 92-280 inverted is rated from 55-85 pto hp. We are running a New Holland TL100A Deluxe, with about 93 pto hp. I am not the authority on inverted blowers, but i wouldn't want to run less than 75 on the pto, unless all i did was shorter drives. I do some private roads, and a bunch of drives that are between 400 and 800 feet long, with lots of turns and no room for piles, even with 93hp i find myself wishing for a bit more when i go into the bigger drifts. They make several sizes, from 54" to 102" . An 82" might do well on a smaller tractor. The trade off is having to make more passes to complete. I nearly went with a 102" but ended up with the 92"... no regrets.


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## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

Definitely inverted. you can do all the drives and any road work with it in no time. Then you can add a few driveways close to the complex and fill up a route with it.


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

OrganicsL&L;1969488 said:


> Definitely inverted. you can do all the drives and any road work with it in no time. Then you can add a few driveways close to the complex and fill up a route with it.


I keep going back and looking at that site....i honestly believe, that with my inverted blower, i can be in and out in 3.5 hours. Maybe a bit less. I'd even offer to do the road, so the county/city plow doesn't plug the end of the driveway after I'm gone. In my market, that may be $400 per time.


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## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

I'm thinking 2-2.5 hrs here per visit and in my market, probably about $15k for the season. That is with a 2" trigger, unlimited visits....average year about 20 visits.


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

OrganicsL&L;1969800 said:


> I'm thinking 2-2.5 hrs here per visit and in my market, probably about $15k for the season. That is with a 2" trigger, unlimited visits....average year about 20 visits.


I didn't want to sound to cocky on how fast i could do it...


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

What would it cost to set up or rent a tractor and inverted blower? Might take a "few" years to break even,this is a one year deal as gv mentioned.I guess if you already had the equip to handle it might work out.


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## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

excav8ter;1969806 said:


> I didn't want to sound to cocky on how fast i could do it...


Me either LOL....wesport


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## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

leigh;1969807 said:


> What would it cost to set up or rent a tractor and inverted blower? Might take a "few" years to break even,this is a one year deal as gv mentioned.I guess if you already had the equip to handle it might work out.


If he bought a brand new tractor with pto hp around 85, the whole set up is probably in the $75k range. Looks like there are more homes surrounding this property, so theoretically, you could easily get another $25-30k worth of driveways on the route and then you are looking at a 3 year return on investment. You can also get a used tractor same hp range, with new blower for around $40k. Yes it will take time to build the route, but with aggressive marketing etc shouldn't take too long.

If you have a lot of farms around you, or your dealer has rental units then you can probably rent one in the $12k range for the season. Maybe less, but would have to buy the blower for it.


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

leigh;1969807 said:


> What would it cost to set up or rent a tractor and inverted blower? Might take a "few" years to break even,this is a one year deal as gv mentioned.I guess if you already had the equip to handle it might work out.


Renting just looked like a bad idea for us. I worked out a 3 year deal with a large HOA, which made it possible to buy our setup. Now we bang out the HOA, with a combo of 2 trucks with V blades and Eblings, then i run out and do another 35 big driveways along lake Michigan. Now, the HOA wants us to add another blower. So we're looking at a 3 year extension, which will take us to the winter of 2019/2020. Yikes! That's a long way out...


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## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

Just did a quick google earth of that complex, and right behind it is a large development where it would be easy to fill up a route I bet. If you can get it Grandview, go for it, looks like a great spot to get started!


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## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

excav8ter;1969818 said:


> Renting just looked like a bad idea for us. I worked out a 3 year deal with a large HOA, which made it possible to buy our setup. Now we bang out the HOA, with a combo of 2 trucks with V blades and Eblings, then i run out and do another 35 big driveways along lake Michigan. Now, the HOA wants us to add another blower. So we're looking at a 3 year extension, which will take us to the winter of 2019/2020. Yikes! That's a long way out...


That's great for you, Congrats!


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

OrganicsL&L;1969821 said:


> That's great for you, Congrats!


Thanks Rick. I am excited and nervous. We have enough employees to run 2 blowers right now, because two guys run the pickups. I am pretty confident that we'll need 3 blower setups to keep up with demand. I am up to about 80 drives and about 12 miles of roads With the blower. The trucks take one pass each way on the roads,and i blow it all off the street.


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## green frog (Jan 2, 2007)

I am 10 min from Grandview and last year I had 27 plowing events and at 22 presently this year with snow coming sunday. All 2 inch triggers.


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