# USM awarded 2,500 Walmarts???



## snowbrothers101

Anyone hear about this?


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## Luther

First I heard of it.


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## grandview

You going to bid on 1 or all of them?


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## cretebaby

snowbrothers101;803620 said:


> Anyone hear about this?


How many is there that would need plowing?


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## cretebaby

cretebaby;803642 said:


> How many is there that would need plowing?


I should have said.

How many WalMarts are in snow country.?


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## plowman4life

at least 2500


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## dfdsuperduty

that must mean that i didn't get 82k bid that i submitted to them  oh well when john boy and his truck come to plow and break down i will drive by honk and wave and let him know that i'll sub to him for 140 an hr per 4x4 p/u and plow and will take payment 48hr after the storm and it must be by cc, cash, or cashiers truck


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## Mark Oomkes

cretebaby;803684 said:


> I should have said.
> 
> How many WalMarts are in snow country.?


Some one is going to need a lot of diesel pickups. xysport


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## Camden

plowman4life;803700 said:


> at least 2500


You think so? According to Wal-Mart's wiki page there are 3513 stores nationwide. You gotta believe a large chunk of those are in non-snow states like Cali, Texas and Florida.



Mark Oomkes;803753 said:


> Some one is going to need a lot of diesel pickups. xysport


You're awful


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## Longae29

Has anyone ever heard of US Maintenance? are they good to work for? They asked me to bid on 2,500 walmarts, I have an older style western plow on my truck, how much should I charge?


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## snowbrothers101

Between Supercenters, Sams Clubs, etc, I heard the whole RFP was over 5,000 locations with more then half getting snow of some kind.


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## Luther

Longae29;804071 said:


> Has anyone ever heard of US Maintenance? are they good to work for? They asked me to bid on 2,500 walmarts, I have an older style western plow on my truck, how much should I charge?


Where's the worthless attached map? I'm afraid I'll have to guess then..........

At $1,000.00 all inclusive for each you will gross 2.5m!

If Santa can hit every home in the world in 6 hours with a few Canadian deer, you will have plenty of time to make your dreams come true.


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## 2COR517

Longae29;804071 said:


> Has anyone ever heard of US Maintenance? are they good to work for? They asked me to bid on 2,500 walmarts, I have an older style western plow on my truck, how much should I charge?


I'd do the job just for gas money. Maybe a free coffee from the DD every storm too. Think of the advertising potential......

Put a big sign on my truck, maybe a flashing light too.


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## Longae29

TCLA;804084 said:


> Where's the worthless attached map?


I'll pst picures l8r.

thanks fer teh werthless post You oviously aint gonna contribite nothinng Why can't you just tell me a price.


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## cretebaby

Longae29;804117 said:


> I'll pst picures l8r.
> 
> thanks fer teh werthless post You oviously aint gonna contribite nothinng Why can't you just tell me a price.


:yow!: ROFL :yow!:


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## Luther

Longae29;804117 said:


> I'll pst picures l8r.
> 
> thanks fer teh werthless post You oviously aint gonna contribite nothinng Why can't you just tell me a price.


lololol....

You have obviously mistaken me for that mean crete fellow.


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## toby4492

Longae29;804117 said:


> I'll pst picures l8r.
> 
> thanks fer teh werthless post You oviously aint gonna contribite nothinng Why can't you just tell me a price.


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## terrapro

Longae29;804117 said:


> I'll pst picures l8r.
> 
> thanks fer teh werthless post You oviously aint gonna contribite nothinng Why can't you just tell me a price.




Get the map up so I can give you a round about number that YOU need to work with so crete can call me a noob!


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## cretebaby

Longae29;804117 said:


> I'll pst picures l8r.
> 
> thanks fer teh werthless post You oviously aint gonna contribite nothinng Why can't you just tell me a price.





> Last edited by Longae29; Today at 09:06 AM. Reason: *spelling error*


There is the best part.


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## Longae29

cretebaby;804178 said:


> There is the best part.


I thought that would add to the value. and it gave me a good chuckle.



terrapro;804150 said:


> Get the map up so I can give you a round about number that YOU need to work with so crete can call me a noob!


Well according to my boss that number could be a lot lower if I didnt "sit in here with the @#$%^&* air conditioning on all day" I dont know what he wants, its 80 and sunny, and i'm warm I mean i'm upstairs in an office, hunting down customers, new leads, and making fun of misguided fools on plowsite, might as well be comfortable.


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## Italiano67

Does anyone know any real news about Wally World?


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## Luke_P

you guys are all so negative!! walmart only really seems to build a 1\2 dozen or so different style of stores so to bid all 2500 you really only need to look at 6-10 and just average out the rest..... you only need one employee per store and a call centre, no more going out in the middle of the night just call in to let me know how its going. 

First snowfall have your one employee out front till he see's some unemployed plow operator drive buy and offer him some beer and a tank of gas to do it if they want to salt I ll give em a walmart gift card. Word will get out and guys will be lined up to do it. Think of the money you'd make!! I hope no one from walmart or USM reads this and steals my business plan I am going to the bank for capital tomorrow. wonder if I locate move my call centre off-shore.......


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## rgrimes945

Are there any in North Carolina ?


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## plowman4life

rgrimes945;804693 said:


> Are there any in North Carolina ?


you live in north carolina and you are asking people from other states and canada if there are any walmarts in your state?

am i correct in what your asking here


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## T-MAN

rgrimes945;804693 said:


> Are there any in North Carolina ?


Ray be carefull with US main.

T-Zab, out.


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## SuperdutyShane

plowman4life;804705 said:


> you live in north carolina and you are asking people from other states and canada if there are any walmarts in your state?
> 
> am i correct in what your asking here


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## rgrimes945

WoW, It was a Joke.... Didn't mean to upset everyone.
Todd, { no worries} Not bidding on them. My plate has just the right amount on it.. But I am looking for some subs in the Raleigh and Charlotte area if anyone is interested...


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## Camden

I've received 2 e-mails today from two different employees of USM and both said that they HAVE NOT been awarded the Wal-Mart contract.

One of the messages said that they hoped to hear something by the end of this week. I will post again if I hear any new info.


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## snowbrothers101

I spoke to my contact today and USM has in fact been awarded the entire portfolio...5,400 locations for land, lot snow and power washing. Rumor has it pricing is at least 35% lower then what Walmart was previously spending.


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## terrapro

snowbrothers101;809660 said:


> I spoke to my contact today and USM has in fact been awarded the entire portfolio...5,400 locations for land, lot snow and power washing. Rumor has it pricing is at least 35% lower then what Walmart was previously spending.


35% WHAT! wtf is wrong with this entire industry?!


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## Mark Oomkes

terrapro;809676 said:


> 35% WHAT! wtf is wrong with this entire industry?!





Mark Oomkes;809504 said:


> Well, personally, I hate WalMart.
> 
> I know they have done a lot for the country, but not all of it good. Continually beating the crap out of all the vendors is not my idea of good business. I am happy when we all make money, because that is what we are in business for--me, my vendors and my customers. I expect a fair price for my services, I expect to pay a fair price for my products and in turn provide an excellent (I aim for) service to my customers.
> 
> Demanding lower prices every year if you don't change or enhance a product is just not realistic, IMO. Making a vendor almost totally dependent on me so I can do the above is not good business either.
> 
> Selling cheap crap and then demanding the vendor take it in on return no questions asked is not good business either, IMO.
> 
> http://www.fastcompany.com/node/54763/print


Told you so


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## Luther

terrapro;809676 said:


> 35% WHAT! wtf is wrong with this entire industry?!


Low ball, bottom feeding Nationals.

They are very effective hurting this industry.


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## Camden

snowbrothers101;809660 said:


> I spoke to my contact today and USM has in fact been awarded the entire portfolio...5,400 locations for land, lot snow and power washing. Rumor has it pricing is at least 35% lower then what Walmart was previously spending.


Who is your contact person? My e-mails came right from 2 employees of USM. They have no reason to mislead me.


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## Luther

snowbrothers101;809660 said:


> I spoke to my contact today and USM has in fact been awarded the entire portfolio...5,400 locations for land, lot snow and power washing. Rumor has it pricing is at least 35% lower then what Walmart was previously spending.





Camden;809706 said:


> Who is your contact person? My e-mails came right from 2 employees of USM. They have no reason to mislead me.


I doubt either one of you would name who your contacts are.....if you did they would no longer be your contact.

Ahhh ~ the rumor mill.


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## Camden

TCLA;809714 said:


> I doubt either one of you would name who your contacts are.....if you did they would no longer be your contact.
> 
> Ahhh ~ the rumor mill.


Yeah, I don't expect the guy to name names but it would be nice to know if his "contact" is actually a USM employee or just some guy who knows this guy who heard the info from his brother's cousin.


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## ford550

Why do you guys even care. Let them find worthless contractors to use and the stores will get what they pay for. There is plenty of other work out there for you to bid on. Wally World is such a small percentage of the actual commercial market. Let it go man. :waving:


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## snowbrothers101

My contact confirmed that 12 people from USM spent September 8th-12th in Bentonville, AK attending meetings with WalMart. I wish this was not real but it is. They flew down Labor Day night and were there all week.


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## snowbrothers101

I used to service 11 WalMarts so I am not happy about this change. There is no way I will be able to service those sites anymore at their price points and jump through the inevitable hoops they will make us jump through.


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## Luther

snowbrothers101;809728 said:


> I used to service 11 WalMarts so I am not happy about this change. There is no way I will be able to service those sites anymore at their price points and jump through the inevitable hoops they will make us jump through.


Could be they set themselves up for failure......


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## lilweeds

I guy I know has confirmed 100 Sam's Club Stores. So I guess the USM deal was just for Walmart. He is a smaller regional version of USM that actually pays his bills.


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## creativedesigns

It seems like USM are big players in the industry? Sometimes mega companies can get in there low for the plowing, but make thier money on removal & trucking.

In Ottawa (where Im from) if a small company tries to bid against "big box stores" & wins the snow contract (VERY RARE) it ends up being a hunt game with the big players who own their own snow dumps & tri-axle trucks. They'll squash tiny guys out of the picture quick! I don't know why companies with 4 plow trucks think they can be a big shot & take on all these high end contracts? Stick with what you can realistically get done & what pays.


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## Italiano67

creativedesigns;809863 said:


> It seems like USM are big players in the industry? Sometimes mega companies can get in there low for the plowing, but make thier money on removal & trucking.
> 
> In Ottawa (where Im from) if a small company tries to bid against "big box stores" & wins the snow contract (VERY RARE) it ends up being a hunt game with the big players who own their own snow dumps & tri-axle trucks. They'll squash tiny guys out of the picture quick! I don't know why companies with 4 plow trucks think they can be a big shot & take on all these high end contracts? Stick with what you can realistically get done & what pays.


Stick with what we can handle? Maybe you are forgetting that alot of us have done these accounts in the past already? How do you know what equipment we own or have access too? Here is a refund for your .02 cents.


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## mullis56

Ditto..........


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## 2COR517

Italiano67;809893 said:


> Stick with what we can handle? Maybe you are forgetting that alot of us have done these accounts in the past already? How do you know what equipment we own or have access too? Here is a refund for your .02 cents.


Well said, my friend.


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## tman3007

*Walmart/US Maintenance*

Chiming in a little late on this topic, however, we provide parking lot sweeping, lawn maintenance and most of all snow removal for Walmart. Being in Colorado, you can imagine snow is why we keep this type of account! I started hearing the rumors about a week ago and got confirmation from our store manager and all he will tell me is that we have to "wait and see" After all the years of such a high level of loyal service, that's all I get?!?

The stinger is that they are dumping this crap on us NOW!!! We already are getting snow at our elevation (8500') Wait and see is not an option in the type of small town I live in. We don't have a multitude of options around here. Very stressful for me, my family and employees. Yes, this is business, but a raw shakedown for many of us loyal vendors! I have a good friend in the business who has, or should say, had 6 Walmarts in a neighboring city. He already lost 1 and has received calls from 2 other stores preparing him for the worst. Keep in mind, he has had some of these locations for over 9 years!!! And to answer the question looming in the back of your mind, he has done GREAT work for them. He is just as anal about detail as I am about quality and providing high levels of service.

A lot of you say, ahhh, just be done with them and find all of these "supposed" other accounts. Not that easy when we're already in snow season here in Colorado. Families and businesses are being crushed. The chance of scrambling to get other accounts is way too late in the season now!

Keeping the faith though! Best of luck to all of you guys out there this season. Good things happen to good people still...right???

Will post updates when I hear anything.

Todd


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## xtreem3d

wouldn't it seem that us main. would really have to get things in line fast if your getting snow already. i guess it's possible you could contact them and see about subbing for them as a way to maintain some level of income?


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## tman3007

Yeah, I actually know a contact person from US Maintenance that I am calling today. From what I'm hearing though, the payscale will be a fraction of what we were billing out. Lots of tough decisions will be forced upon us regardless of the outcome. Keeping the head held high and will keep up the good fight!


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## Grn Mtn

I certainly was by no means at the level of biz that your at but went through the same scenario; I had some key commercial accounts that provided me with 85% of my winter income and 30% of my summer (hindsight: too many eggs in one basket) quality of service was top notch, and I charged a fair wage. However, corporate office decided that was too much for snow services so Late October I still hadn't received the contract back, finally the 2nd week of Nov I got the bad news.


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## Mark Oomkes

tman3007;811989 said:


> A lot of you say, ahhh, just be done with them and find all of these "supposed" other accounts. Not that easy when we're already in snow season here in Colorado. * Families and businesses are being crushed. *
> 
> Todd


And there you have it folks.

All for the sake of saving a buck or two, WallyWorld could give a crapless about service or dedication from vendors in the past.

Or, as this poster states, realizing it is far, far, far too late to be screwing around with contracts of this size and scope.

But hey, what the heck, snow plowers are a dime a dozen, and there will be another lowballer to come in and save the day when the original one doesn't show up.

Yup, they're a great company.


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## pieperlc

Could they buy snow removal from China? Just throw it in the containers with the rest of the crap they sell. Walmart sucks and I refuse to shop there.


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## tman3007

Just spoke to one of the VP's at US Maintenance, he said for me to call him Monday afternoon. Everything is supposed to be finalized by then with Walmart. Not sure what to think right now but takin' it a day at a time.


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## Mick

Did you really expect loyalty from Wal-Mart? They get loyalty through lowball prices. They do not give loyalty nor care about the consumer. You now have the choice of working for US Maintenance and maybe getting paid.

Personally, I am hoping Wal-Mart folds. The unfortunate part is that there'll be another right behind to take its place.


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## big acres

US is the Walmart of property services... like you are an american manufacturer and are being outsourced to Chinese companies. The sale that was made to Walmart probably went like this:

USM - "With this economy and building/excavating industries stalled, there is a high percentage of equipment just sitting around. Let USM squeeze these guys for you. We estimate that many will work for 35% or less this year, just to make their equipment payments and stay in business."

Walmart - "You know what? You folks at USM sure have a good grasp of how we do business out of Bentonville. Let's get this deal done at the last minute so those contractors will feel the squeeze even harder".

NOTE: I sure as hell hope that nobody that has posted negatively about Walmart EVER shops there. Only the consumer can end their monopoly.


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## rofoth6

I say Sc**w Them. Let the snow build up and customers can't get in to stores they'll be begging for someone to plow. That's when you raise the price for sc**wing with us.


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## Quality SR

Italiano67;809893 said:


> Here is a refund for your .02 cents.


I think he can live without it



> "Millionaire Snow Plower"


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## Mick

rofoth6;812227 said:


> I say Sc**w Them. Let the snow build up and customers can't get in to stores they'll be begging for someone to plow. That's when you raise the price for sc**wing with us.


Wont work. There's always SOMEONE willing to just take whatever gets thrown at them - thinking it's better than nothing. Usually they wind up working for less than their operational costs. And they're in EVERY field/industry.


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## CMS

*Wal Mart USM*

240 MIllion over (3 or 5) years. USM needed this to stay in business. Now if their cash flow can sustain the growth and they did not bid toooo low or expect beating the contractors to supply their profit... Keep alert to receivables.


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## gd8boltman

*US Maint. only is successful*

with quality contractors working for them, orthem justifying the lower level of service for the much reduced costs. You certainly have several difficult decesions forthcoming, we had been called on by them for some retailers near us, some which we had been doing. When I sat down and reviewed their offer, which for us was the "take it or leave it" rates, I truly sat down with pen and paper to try to determine if we could do it for that, or come closer and I would call them with a counter offer. We had been servicing these locations with good reviews from the management, but once US becomes involved, the slate is clean, and you have to look out the windshield and not the rear view mirror. After looking at my numbers it would not have produced the net I needed for the expenses of running a business, so I had to decline. In all honesty, they are being serviced by another company that is doing a fair job at best, but everyone is dealing with it, after all there is a reason Wal-Mart is the worlds largest company, and US Maint. is growing at the level they are, people like to buy cheap stuff, and are willing to make concessions to keep the prices low, thats the world we are living in.


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## SuperdutyShane

Hmm, as angry as everyone who had or was trying to get a contract with Wal Mart is at USM, Wal Mart is just as ruthless as USM, thats business. I mean obviously Im sorry for the guys that lost contracts but in a tough economy people are going to do anything they can to get work.


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## SuperdutyShane

And come the end of the season, if they do try and scr*w Wal Mart over on the trucking, Wal Mart will drop that contract so fast, they are ruthless.


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## Ne1

If everyone would stop subbing for the US Maintenance/National Companies they would have no business. Stop working for nothing and doing all the work to make there business successful. Sooner or later maybe they will realize they have ran out of idiots that will work for free.


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## 3311

Ne1;812286 said:


> If everyone would stop subbing for the US Maintenance/National Companies they would have no business. Stop working for nothing and doing all the work to make there business successful. Sooner or later maybe they will realize they have ran out of idiots that will work for free.


That's exactly right. U.S and other maintenance companys need to be delt with. I for one, will not work for a middle man and give them the power to hold my money !!!


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Mick;812073 said:


> Did you really expect loyalty from Wal-Mart? They get loyalty through lowball prices. They do not give loyalty nor care about the consumer. You now have the choice of working for US Maintenance and maybe getting paid.
> 
> Personally, I am hoping Wal-Mart folds. The unfortunate part is that there'll be another right behind to take its place.


yeah exactly lol, thats why ive never wanted to plow one of them, plus the scum of the earth are who shop there "generally", dont be up in a tizzy because you buy your damn oil there ! Lawsuits for slip and falls galore in NJ and many other states.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

anyway, i think its a good thing for walmarts.... at least what ive seen in nj... lots have joe smoes out mowing and plowing them.... Ive seen large ones where one truck was there 

Two local ones to us, i know a girl who is buddy buddy with the assistant managers, shes worked there for years, we cant even bid on the damn place :/

The other local one, a small lawn company handles the snow, but subs ONE place out to three different companies :realmad: 

I'm amazed they dont have more problems than they appear to have, and the manager must be up this companies "azz" because she basically blows us off the phone when we ask about a bid....

The company cuts multiple acres on this lot with ONE old dixie chopper :/ Nothing like getting your foot in the door for good with a big place huh?


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## Ramairfreak98ss

pieperlc;812034 said:


> Could they buy snow removal from China? Just throw it in the containers with the rest of the crap they sell. Walmart sucks and I refuse to shop there.


haha, yeah i hear ya..

Well the snow would come out painted with that tainted lead paint they sell lol. I havnt stepped into one in years now after i flipped out at one a few years back after their foreign managers just walked me around the whole store to find the correct price on something only for some short fat lady to then tell me i was wrong and the price on the tag was placed improperly lol.


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## SteveR

anybody have a contract in place with the stor prior to USM.. I do and have not heard a peep. Should I plan to be ok for the season???


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## mullis56

We do and got FU letter.


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## brian85

I do the snow plowing, sweeping, landscaping, ect for Walmart and they pay me monthly...or should i say i DID this. I handed in my bill for this month because its due the first and they call me today and want to know if I can bring in a bill for landscaping only because they dont want to pay me for snow plowing until they figure out whats going on. I haven't got my written notice yet or anything...this is crap. Happen to anyone else?


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## Luther

Well, they contacted me today and sent along their sample contract. I returned the call to their strategic sourcing procurement specialist to find she has banker hours....must be nice.

Was concerned I was going to be left out, I feel much better now. 

Can't wait to hear her sch-peel.........might have to have a little fun.


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## stroker79

Perhaps we need to get the word out??


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## Superior L & L

The walmarts around my area are done by one company. I hear some are per push per ton and some are monthly. These's guy are laying down salt if it looks like its going to snow. There were nights that they had sweeper trucks on one side of the lot and a salt truck on the other side. While i don't know if i could do these lots for what USM wants for them, I'm sure i could do them for a lot less than the contractor that is doing them now. This contractor treats these lots like its class A office parks not discount retailers.
Although if i had some of these i would for sure pick up a couple of extra mill in liability insurance.


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## 3311

snowbrothers101;809660 said:


> I spoke to my contact today and USM has in fact been awarded the entire portfolio...5,400 locations for land, lot snow and power washing. Rumor has it pricing is at least 35% lower then what Walmart was previously spending.


Great ! Do you know how hard it is to shop with snow shoes on ?


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## snowman55

sucks to loose big accounts to big nat'ls that dont even visit the site. but such is business. does walmart really care about how well their lots are plowed or who plows them? no! if you could save 35% on your gas bill would you switch venders? as long as the people who shop there still spend thier money it doesn't matter. I believe in professionalism in this industry but their will always be the guys who will work for nothing and deal with usm. kiss the w-marts good bye and be happy. the lowballing hunyucks are less likely to be bidding on my properties and usm will be putting the squeeze on the other natl and regional guys for the subs out there. there are only so many subs available and i'm happy they will be at walmart. take a look around i am amazed at the amount of pavement that needs to be cleared. shift your focus to something else.


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## Luther

Just spoke with their strategic sourcing procurement specialist. She says at this point they are only reaching out to prospective service providers and wouldn't tell me who their "major retail customer" is as they have no signed agreement with them. She was speechless when I suggested it was Walmart....it through her for an obvious loop.

I suggested they may want to get a commitment soon so she can talk specifics with those she is reaching out to, as we all have a capacity and people are committing to their contractors as we speak.......slim pick-ins will be their pool to draw from if they wait too long. 

They either don't have it penned yet, or she is on a need to know basis only.


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## stroker79

I talked to someone I know that put bids in on some walmarts and they say that nothing has been decided yet. So who knows really.


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## Brannick Group

usm contacted us this week and sent bidding agrement to sign. after reading that they take 4% of your payment after they pay you 10k and if you want payment in 30 days thats another 5% ????????


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## Camden

Brannick Group;815632 said:


> usm contacted us this week and sent bidding agrement to sign. after reading that they take 4% of your payment after they pay you 10k and if you want payment in 30 days thats another 5% ????????


I got the same thing. It must be their standard agreement.


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## Superior L & L

Brannick Group;815632 said:


> usm contacted us this week and sent bidding agreement to sign. after reading that they take 4% of your payment after they pay you 10k and if you want payment in 30 days thats another 5% ????????


Now I'm no rocket scientist, but 5% to get payed your money in 30 days means there making 60% interest per year on other peoples money.

They could let you have every penny of the contract and make plenty of money just holding it and taking your 4 and 5% charge offs. It takes some big pockets or decent lines of credit to be able to service multiple sites and get payed in 60-90 days 

I think i'll limit myself to 2 locations


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## cet

Superior L & L;815760 said:


> Now I'm no rocket scientist, but 5% to get payed your money in 30 days means there making 60% interest per year on other peoples money.
> 
> They could let you have every penny of the contract and make plenty of money just holding it and taking your 4 and 5% charge offs. It takes some big pockets or decent lines of credit to be able to service multiple sites and get payed in 60-90 days
> 
> I think i'll limit myself to 2 locations


That's not quite how interest works. If it's 5% of 10,000 this month it is 5% of a different 10,000 next month. On a 5 month contract they would get 2,500 of 50,000, that's still 5%. I don't agree with what they are doing but it's not 60%.


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## guff1972

Has anyone heard anymore about them getting all of the Wal-Marts?


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## johndeereguy

I sent it the contract agreement to be able to work for USM. I have heard and read all the stories about them, but thought I would see what they have to offer. I deal with a similar company on plowing Pilot truck stops. It has went pretty smothly with that, just have to wait and see


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## LotandLand

I have worked with, around USM for many years. 
I know they dont pay! I will NOT be taking part in any snow removal for them at all... 

Little inside on this contract they got, that I dont think anyone here has posted about....

USM promised Walmart a 35% reduction in the snow plowing contracts!!! 

Think about this. USM has to mark up the prices as well... So, they have agreed to get ALL the locations plowed for 35% less than Walmart has been paying in past years, But at the same time they (USM) have to make money.

I forecast them loosing this contract after the FIRST good snow fall this season! 
No way they can get it done, unless they plan to NOT pay the subs for the removal of the snow... That would be one way USM could get this done for 35% less.......

It would be spring/summer before any contractor that removes snow for them will realize for sure that USM is not going to pay, or will pay less than the invoiced amount! 

Good luck to all that work with USM on these Walmarts! 

And thanks to all the people who have supplied me with this insider info (Reliable sources!) 

Thanks - Good luck guys.....


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## snowbrothers101

35% less? The challenge I see is that it is unlikely Walmart has the visibility to know what their spend was for snow previously. With each location sourcing out the work themselves, I know that for corporate to figure out the amounts would be difficult. Also, each location followed their own scope but you know USM will use a standard scope for all sites so comparing apples to apples to quantify a save seems like an impossibility. 

I am sure they guaranteed a save as well in some fashion but 35% also seems high and unnecessary. in the past I have heard their savings they guarantee runs closer to 10%-15%. Either way, though, this will be a train wreck and I agree this contract will be short lived for USM.


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## procut1

Unfortunately there are more guys who would wet their pants to plow the "big commercial account" than there are guys that would argue the numbers.

The jobs will get done. Some will get done just fine. Others will have problems. The ones that have problems USM will replace the contractor with another cheap guy who will do the job just fine.

The business model sucks....But unfortunately it does work.


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## LotandLand

Remember, USM has to profit as well. 
They are going to make up at LEAST 15% (Likely more) 
Lets use 15% for now...
So the lot will get cleared for HALF what it was cleared in previous years?

I have been doing snow removal (AND a LOT of it) for many years. I dont have ONE property with enough markup to remove snow at HALF the rate I did for them the previous year (Even in a tuff economy) and NOT LOOSE money... Do any of you charge customers MORE than double your cost? If not, you would have to take a loss on this! 

Contractors that just want to get into something big - Dont get too excited. It would be better to make a few dollars with a customer who will pay you.
Why would you spend your time and money on ice melt, man hours, trucks, plows, maintenance, etc.... just to "Not break even"????

Plow snow for people that will pay you, and make a profit! Dont chase "Big Box" shopping centers just to loose money (Referring to this ONE USM - Walmart deal here) - 
I am sure other Big Box retailers need snow plowed, and will pay you enough to profit and in a timely manner.....

Think about this before you sign a contract with them!


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## 2COR517

snowbrothers101;816324 said:


> 35% less? The challenge I see is that it is unlikely Walmart has the visibility to know what their spend was for snow previously.


Walmart knows exactly what they spend on snow removal each year. It's on it's own expense line like like labor and heat.


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## LotandLand

2COR517;816373 said:


> Walmart knows exactly what they spend on snow removal each year. It's on it's own expense line like like labor and heat.


Great point - I am sure you are 100% correct here... 
We are talking the Major Chain, Walmart.... 
They know what they spend on everything. I bet they know two sodas are missing off the shelves within a month of someone taking them!


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## snowbrothers101

I disagree that they know. From knowing other retail and restaurant P&L, often vendor services just get line-itemed under general categories, like "building services" or "building maintenance". Often, exterior services as a whole get lumped into one category, with no real way to differentiate from snow to land costs to repairs of a bollard or concrete work. It is not cut and dried like you think.

The same goes for plumbing, carpentry, door repairs, etc. They don't line item each one but have them drop into one P&L category.


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## procut1

Walmart makes money pennies at a time.

You bet your butt they know EXACTLY what they pay for EVERYTHING.

Ill bet the data that is available in their accounting and inventory system is out of this world.

They could not survive without knowing their costs down to the last penny.


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## 2COR517

snowbrothers101;816396 said:


> I disagree that they know. It is not cut and dried like you think..


So the nine years I spent doing finance reporting for an international corportation was all wrong?

They must report snow removal on a separate line. Otherwise "Exterior maintenance" would be much higher for northern stores than southern stores.


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## Superior L & L

I talked to a guy at USM today (a guy ive bid some stuff with over there). He just kind of chuckled when i asked about it. He is not working on that account, but he said they are all waiting, sitting on the edge of there seats just like us! Some leg work has been done to locate some contractors but they said it could be a couple more weeks before they find out!


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## LotandLand

Superior L & L;816769 said:


> I talked to a guy at USM today (a guy ive bid some stuff with over there). He just kind of chuckled when i asked about it. He is not working on that account, but he said they are all waiting, sitting on the edge of there seats just like us! Some leg work has been done to locate some contractors but they said it could be a couple more weeks before they find out!


It was awarded to them. He must be in a different building if he is not aware of it yet!


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## Luther

LotandLand;816895 said:


> It was awarded to them. He must be in a different building if he is not aware of it yet!


Possible, but doubtful. I've been told the same by USM. Hard to believe a gross lack of communication exists within them.

If it does they need to just fold up like a cheap tent and get out of the way.

They will have a real challenge if they don't start moving on this soon.


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## Mark Oomkes

2COR517;816533 said:


> So the nine years I spent doing finance reporting for an international corportation was all wrong?
> 
> They must report snow removal on a separate line. Otherwise "Exterior maintenance" would be much higher for northern stores than southern stores.


Of course it means nothing, you're a toothless hick from Maine, remember?



Superior L & L;816769 said:


> I talked to a guy at USM today (a guy ive bid some stuff with over there). He just kind of chuckled when i asked about it. He is not working on that account, but he said they are all waiting, sitting on the edge of there seats just like us! Some leg work has been done to locate some contractors but they said it could be a couple more weeks before they find out!





TCLA;816906 said:


> Possible, but doubtful. I've been told the same by USM. Hard to believe a gross lack of communication exists within them.
> 
> If it does they need to just fold up like a cheap tent and get out of the way.
> 
> They will have a real challenge if they don't start moving on this soon.


From everything I've heard on the internet about USM, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know. Coming from the internet, take that FWIW. 

I hope this is true and we have an early winter across the board. USM would be out the door so fast it would be hilarious.

As the guy from CO said, it's snowed out there already, they've been salting the highways. My father is out there now and has seen snow on the roads. Shoot, I had pavement temps below freezing yesterday AM by me already.

Take your time USM. This might become their downfall, just as SMG had a straw that broke the camel's back.

As for the whole services can be done cheaper and comparing it to products that Wallyworld sells, apples to oranges. And if you don't know what the difference is, you better get some real world business education.


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## LotandLand

Brannick Group;815632 said:


> usm contacted us this week and sent bidding agrement to sign. after reading that they take 4% of your payment after they pay you 10k and if you want payment in 30 days thats another 5% ????????


BTW:
They take that money even if you dont agree to it! 
Company I ran for 12 years has had a lot of contracts with USM.
Over the last few years, they (USM) started paying that 9% less out WITHOUT us agreeing. We even told them we do NOT agree to these terms. 
Needless to say - The company I was with and USM have had to part ways and the lawyers have been at it for couple years now. Still have NOT got the percents back from them that we never agreed to (We are talking about over $60K here)

When you send a bill to a customer, or a bid to a possible customer - Do you plan or expect them to take a percent OUT of the agreed on price when the check comes in the mail? 
A lot (Probably everyone) cashes the checks (We need to get paid).....

I will STAY AWAY from USM - Period... There ARE other places to service/plow.... without dealing with the crooked USM!


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## mattitude78

From both contacts at WalMart stores and from USM all snow removal contracts will be awarded through USM. This is bad news in my opinion. This year they started the IVR system for mowing that required a call prior to service along with before and after pictures of the work. 

I have reviewed many contracts from USM and their pricing points are way too low. I expect to lose my 2 WalMart accounts this winter. I can not take a 30-40% reduction in price.


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## jrc5049

I think who ever this affects should be emailing Bentonville Arkansas and let them know why this will never work, And give them an a opposing view point, other than what USM's trying to sell them. Otherwise good contractors are going to get f----d over this winter. I mean its October and I still have heard nothing yet! I dont know whether i should be looking for other work or what?! Niether Wal-mart or USM has said anything to me yet?!!!. What ever happend to Wal-Mart giving a crap about the local people in the towns they operate?


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## Mark Oomkes

jrc5049;817424 said:


> What ever happend to Wal-Mart giving a crap about the local people in the towns they operate?


You're joking right?

Wally World is the epitome of greed. Anything and everything in the name of the almighty dollar.

THEN, come the local people. Maybe


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## Brad3403

LotandLand;816379 said:


> Great point - I am sure you are 100% correct here...
> We are talking the Major Chain, Walmart....
> They know what they spend on everything. I bet they know two sodas are missing off the shelves within a month of someone taking them!


I agree.....
Apparently Wal-Mart has the second largest communication network in the world (next to the Pentagon). When the temperatures of all stores are controlled by head office, you must be pretty nieve to think they don't know EXACTLY what snow removal costs are at each location.


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## GLLLC

ITs funny everytime I read about NSP's I immediatly can tell who has a successful or will have a successful company. Its mind boggling to me that there are people in business who would take even a little risk of not getting paid or getting a cut taken out of there contracted price. Maybe Im wrong, but I thought people are in business to make money. Would you go to a 9-5 job if the boss told you he may not pay you? Or, he may decide to take 5% out of your check?


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## lbfmd

i think i would rather plow Resdiential driveways at this point then deal with all these nationals. We cancelled our contracts with Lipinski at the end of last season because they started stretching us out 60-90 days. Least with the residnetials you may have one or 2 stick you to the tune of 400 bucks rather then tens of thousands.


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## guff1972

Has anyone heard anything else about USM getting this contract?


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## DODGE-BOY

Yea, was told this morning that they were supposed to hear LAST week. Hoping for Monday morning now. Yes, USM is still trying to find contractors, as I was just called for the first time 3 days ago. Decided to listen to deal for own satisfaction. As long as this thread has been going on, someone isn't doing their job as I am in a major market for Wal-Mart (30 stores within 30 miles) Since I'm listed in Yellow Pages under snow removal you would think I would have gotten a call weeks ago. Actually was told they got my contact from SIMA. Will be interesting to see how things are handled if they get deal.


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## guff1972

They are sure waiting till the last minute to let everyone know whats going on.


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## Mark Oomkes

Wonder why I never get a call from them. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## johndeereguy

I sent in my subcontracter packet a few weeks back and have not heard anything from them. Not sure if I will work for them, but would listen to offers I guess


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## mattitude78

Talked with USM and the contract is still not awarded. Wish this would move along a little faster.


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## Mark Oomkes

mattitude78;822464 said:


> Talked with USM and the contract is still not awarded. Wish this would move along a little faster.


Me too, sick of reading about people waiting with bated\baited\bad breath about this BS.


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## mattitude78

My biggest problem, MARK, is that I have 2 Walmart accounts that are a large part of my business. Here in WV we do not get much snow, but do get some ice managment. I would like to keep the work if possible, but in past dealings with USM I doubt the price points will be worth messing with. Losing those jobs can not be made up with the lack of jobs and occurrences around here.


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## Mark Oomkes

mattitude78;822643 said:


> My biggest problem, MARK, is that I have 2 Walmart accounts that are a large part of my business. Here in WV we do not get much snow, but do get some ice managment. I would like to keep the work if possible, but in past dealings with USM I doubt the price points will be worth messing with. Losing those jobs can not be made up with the lack of jobs and occurrences around here.


I was a little harsh, sorry.

These guys at USM are setting themselves up for a huge clusterfoxtrot by waiting this long to line up contractors. Assuming they actually have the contract.

I hope you guys that work for them don't get screwed, but I hope they as a company fall on their face by doing this to themselves.

Now I know they won't call me. :laughing:


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## N.C. Snowman

Good luck and best wishes to anyone who chooses to work for usm.
How do you think we can overcome them and others like them? How can we return the industry to a state where malwart and other big box stores would rather contract with local companies instead of these national service brokering jokes? These fools have never used a plow, spreader, or shovel. Do we stick together and keep our bids priced higher than these "lowballers" (usm) or do we accept the contract and, one after the other, get fired for providing horrible service in an effort to tarnish their relationship with the customers? Just ideas. Yeah, I am a sub for them. Not for much longer though, and never again.


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## jlouki01

I won't complain until Wal-mart finds a way to let the Chinese plow their lots.. At least for now we take pay cuts but the work remains here.

This is whats fundamentally wrong with our country right now. There is someone somewhere who just got a fat bonus for negotiating a huge cut in costs. That person could care less about the repercussions of what they were driving for. They got their bonus check and will soon move onto another job where they can tout the savings they got for Wally World. There are no reality checks going on in corporate America right now. Cut costs, get a bonus for my new boat, and shove it on the down the line for someone else to figure out how to make it work. 

Here we are signing contracts with people who put stuff like: 

We are not required to take legal action to enforce customer payments. We are not obligated to pay until we receive payment from our customer for the service that you provide. You assume the risk of non-payment by our customer for any reason including, without limitation, our customer's bankruptcy, insolvency, reorganization, financial distress, non performance, dissatisfaction with services or any reason in or out of our control. In no instance may you , your officers, shareholders, employees, contractors, or agents seek to collect payment from our customers. 

An attorney got a big bonus for writing that little paragraph. 

Thank you sir may I have another sir...


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## 2COR517

It's interesting that WM would be skimping here. This has slip and fall lawsuit written all over it. And some of the folks I see at the Walmart look like they could be easily convinced to file a suit by a sleazy "We don't get paid if you don't get paid" TV ad. 

You know the type - $300 leather Dale E jacket, bald tires on the Neon.


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## Italiano67

I cannot believe that the decision has not been made yet. There has been snow already in plenty of locations. I for one have moved on and no longer am willing to plow Walmart. Let USM go and scurry around to find the guys willing to work dirt cheap.


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## jlouki01

That would seem like a valid point.. slip and fall.. but it's not. Wally Mart has a better attorney than USM.. 

Their contract probably has something to this effect.

Walmart and it's store are in no way responsible for the failure or your contractors to control god, his work, his snow and ice, or anything else that is out of our control. USM will take full responsibility for anyone looking to cash in on a slip and fall, a fall and slip, or any combination of both using any or all of those words exclusively or non exclusively written or unwritten. 

If you fell Wally World would pull out an even bigger contract than USM and their 375.00 / hr attorneys would. Trust me if there is a way.. they are going to shed the responsibility off onto USM.. and you can bet your ass USM is going to push it off on us.. let me look in the contract for that exact paragraph.. i am sure it's there..

Oh it's in there.. wow is it in there 

You are responsible for all damages, losses, judgements, liabilities, claims, injuries, costs and expenses arising directly or indirectly ( i love that ) from the ownership and operation of your business, your motor vehicles, your property, and your performance of the Services ( notice capital letter on service ). 

You shall at your own cost and expense, defend us and our customer and both our and our customer's respective officers, directors, employees, agents, shareholders, partners, joint ventures, baby mammas, baby mammas indirectly or directly, affiliates, successors and assigns ( " Indemified Parties " ) from and against all allegations ( even if such allegations may be later proven false, fraudulent or groundless ) asserted in any and all claims reasonably related to Services you provided or failed to provide under this Agreement, regardless of whether your idemnity obligations, specified below ultimately apply and regardless or whether the allegations are directed solely against one or more of the Indemnified Parties. 

I am going to assume... We or I do not directly or indirectly quality as an Indemnified party. 

I better check with the state to see if the company name Free Legal Care for Corporate Big Shots is taken....

Really the point to be taken away here is these guys knowingly are passing the buck. Walmart by managing it themselves are responsible for the service. That manager at Store X chose Mr. Plow to plow the lot. If Mr. Plow doesn't show and Lemont falls in the parking lot that mgr. being a direct employee allows Wal Mart to be sued directly ( not indirectly but directly )  

By using USM they shovel it off on them.. they write big contracts and get any guy with a plow to sign it now he is on the hook.. Walmart sure as hell isn't.. and USM sure as will try not to be. 

Two people made out on this.. The guy in Legal for coming up with a nice contract that sheds the responsibility.. the guy in sourcing who drummed up the idea that they would be 25% less liable in the event of an act of god. We can't sue god to let's get a contractor in here. Both of those guys used this information on their year end evaluations in the " What have you done for us " field and received their year end 20% salary bonus. 

Where do I sign so my kids can eat? 
ussmileyflag


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## Advantage

They Definitely DO have the Walmarts. Got a call yesterday morning at about 6:30am from USM asking if we could go salt a store South of us. I said sorry, thats out of our service area.


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## kickin'a

*Usm*

SO I have a question for the people that are saying they have been contatced by USM on Wal-Mart's are they offering monthly budgets or hrly per pc of equipment? I have talked to Wal-Mart and told them my concern with USM findings and I have talked to USM last Friday the 9th and they have not gotten the contract as of yet. When and if I get contatced by USM I will gaurentee you I will be having my attorney review the contract, his assistant did all the contracts for Menard Corporation and just reviewed the contract with cherry logistics.

I did tell the district and local manager what is being said on here on USM's lack of paying the vendors and they were shocked in hearing that, I referred them to this thread so they could read for themselves. Keep in mind there will always be un happy people when they try to collect from a large corp when there is no personal reality between them. I will post more info as i get.

I am just curious on how they set them contracts up such as budgets,hrly, per inch etc? and 1, 2, 3, yr contracts?


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## lbfmd

My understadnding is that these were bid as a flat rate seasonal, so x amount of dollars over 6 monthes. The problem is what will USM do, they dont use the spec they norammly have signed with a customer so who knows what they'll do. They may do what a Well Know company from Jersey does which is get a seaonal contract, and pay the vendor by snow fall and salt and when they run over budget stretch you 120 days-150 days. Until someone gets it on paper who knows. Its gettign late but least on my end the big corporations we deal with are all running way behind on awarding there contracts.Makes assigning equipment and ordering salt in fun. 
Hopefully they either delay this thing until next year or award it so late that USM winds up with egg on there face and loses it. Also did you guys realize USm is not US owned, they were bought by an outfit out in Australia with deep pockets, that also includes DentCo. So those of you with contracts may want to check out where its coming out of, dont think anyone wants to fight a suit in Australia, be some serious travel time.


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## lbfmd

On a side note, this is a statement on there K-5 filing about USM's 135 million dollar lose in operations last year? wonder where the rebates are going.....must be one of those initiatives.

USM parent company, Transfield Services, announced yesterday that its full year results would be impacted by an impairment charge of A$168 million (US$135 million) on a pre-tax basis. The impairment charge is attributable to the deterioration in economic conditions and higher risk premiums specific to the North American subsidiary USM. USM responded by implementing initiatives to improve operating efficiency and client services, ensuring USM is well positioned to respond to improvements in the US economy.


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## Mark Oomkes

jlouki01;824340 said:


> I won't complain until Wal-mart finds a way to let the Chinese plow their lots.. At least for now we take pay cuts but the work remains here.
> 
> This is whats fundamentally wrong with our country right now. There is someone somewhere who just got a fat bonus for negotiating a huge cut in costs. That person could care less about the repercussions of what they were driving for. They got their bonus check and will soon move onto another job where they can tout the savings they got for Wally World. There are no reality checks going on in corporate America right now. Cut costs, get a bonus for my new boat, and shove it on the down the line for someone else to figure out how to make it work.
> 
> Here we are signing contracts with people who put stuff like:
> 
> We are not required to take legal action to enforce customer payments. We are not obligated to pay until we receive payment from our customer for the service that you provide. You assume the risk of non-payment by our customer for any reason including, without limitation, our customer's bankruptcy, insolvency, reorganization, financial distress, non performance, dissatisfaction with services or any reason in or out of our control. In no instance may you , your officers, shareholders, employees, contractors, or agents seek to collect payment from our customers.
> 
> An attorney got a big bonus for writing that little paragraph.
> 
> Thank you sir may I have another sir...


Hey, lookee here, another voice of reason.

Well stated on the problems our country is facing.

We can NOT maintain the same standard of living as a service economy, the more production shifts out of the USA, the lower our economy will sink.



2COR517;824370 said:


> You know the type - $300 leather Dale E jacket, bald tires on the Neon.


:laughing::laughing:



lbfmd;825217 said:


> My understadnding is that these were bid as a flat rate seasonal, so x amount of dollars over 6 monthes. The problem is what will USM do, they dont use the spec they norammly have signed with a customer so who knows what they'll do. They may do what a Well Know company from Jersey does which is get a seaonal contract, and pay the vendor by snow fall and salt and when they run over budget stretch you 120 days-150 days. Until someone gets it on paper who knows. Its gettign late but least on my end the big corporations we deal with are all running way behind on awarding there contracts.Makes assigning equipment and ordering salt in fun.
> Hopefully they either delay this thing until next year or award it so late that USM winds up with egg on there face and loses it. Also did you guys realize USm is not US owned, they were bought by an outfit out in Australia with deep pockets, that also includes* DentCo.* So those of you with contracts may want to check out where its coming out of, dont think anyone wants to fight a suit in Australia, be some serious travel time.


Another bottom-feeding, scum-sucking area management company.

Like I said, I know a lot you guys have planned on this income, and I feel for you, but you better have your crap together if you're going to sign on with USM.

Still waiting for that call in to me. :laughing:


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## jrc5049

Another thing niether Walmart or USM has thought of is the salt situation, over the past couple years, Where im at you are pre-approved for a certain tonage of salt, once use your alotment you are cut off! And you are already pre-billed for you tonnage, so im out $ 15,000 at least if i lose my contract. I have been doing a Wal-Mart for many years and what Walmart, and USM dont realize is that if the price is not right i will not plow for them and tarnish my good name, And i will NOT sell my salt alotment to the new contractor, so have fun using bag salt, your going to need 50 tractor trailor loads, and any money they do make they will have to use it on back surgery come spring haha, not to mention that contrator will get fired and they will call me back next year. and guess what? my rates will just went up 25% I wish the Wal-Mart big wigs would read this site, i garantee they would change their mind !!!! Another thing they dont realize, all this crappy plowing is going to lead to many slip/fall lawsuits, people are sue happy these days and they salvate at the thought of suing walmart, and it will happen. And when it does it will afftect someones bonus at walmart, maybe then they will realize this is a very. very, bad idea. Oh not to mention screwing contractors around to November not knowing if we have work or not? and its so late in the season that even if you wanted to we couldnt pick up a replacement contract, Thanks walmart for supporting your local contractors!!! much appreciated! all those nights rushing in at 3 in the morning, leaving my wife at the dinner table a valentines day to rush in and salt your lot, countless holidays, the list goes on,, USM will never have this kind of dedication, and have no idea what it takes :realmad:


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## kickin'a

*Usm*

Wal-Mart is reading this forum, I have directed the store and District Manager to this forum to read they have referred this to their regional. Keep in mind not all stores will fail behind the wheel of USM. big metro areas will be ok but in small town USA there is only a few that have the equipment to do a acct the size of Wal-Mart and then you take away the people they fired already and now how many do you have? Time will tell I don;t like the idea either but desperate times call for desperate measures. Wal-Mart isn't going anywhere, they will prevail over USM and when and if this don't work out it will be back to business as usual. patience my friends.

edit as of 10 am they have not gotten any contract yet


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## jrc5049

kickin'a;825373 said:


> Wal-Mart is reading this forum,
> Oh i agree this will fail, but you know after i eat the cost of my pre-ordered salt, and a winter without this contract, It will hurt real bad. Can't blame people for being sour about this. And also you have a point, the current snow removal guys have the contract for a reason, because we could get the job done, who else are they going to go with? all the guys that they have already fired in the past? or a new guy with a crapy old pick-up that thinks this is a quick way to get big?


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## lbfmd

lol can you imagine some guy with an f-250 and a plow trying to plow one of these.


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## kickin'a

better learn how to post on utube could be a good year for funniest home video's. One way to make an extra 10g taping the idiots!! LOL


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## lbfmd

no doubt, an f-250 with a plow pushing 12" of snow off a Walmart lot.could you imagine the salting, lol


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## snowbrothers101

I would like to see Plowsite.com invite WalMart to respond to this thread. There are a lot of legitimate concerns out there that should be addressed. The fact that nothing has officially been awarded is a slap in the face to not only the contractors but also the stores. I invite Waylon Chaney or Trisha Risher from WalMart to respond to everyone's concerns.


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## procut1

Understand that we on plowsite represent a tiny tiny fraction of the number of snow companies out there.

They couldn't care less.

Everyone on plowsite could tell them to shove their contract and there phones will still be ringing off the hook with guys who are wetting their pants to plow the local walmart regardless of what the price is.


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## hickslawns

I have read thru these and find some interesting stuff. Most of it what I have in my mind what will happen, some of it new. We maintain several of these stores as well. Here is what I know: I am meeting with one of my local store managers tomorrow. He still does not know if this is going to happen or not. I know this is not relevant information you are all waiting to hear, but this is just where I stand. 

I do know one thing: I will not work for USM. They have stuck me in the past, they will do it again. 

I do know there are few contractors in my area with the equipment to handle this lot. There are fewer contractors in my area that have the equipment to handle these lots AT THE RATES USM is willing to pay. This leaves USM with limited contractors available, and those to choose from cannot handle one of these accounts without dropping all their other customers. 

I also believe finding salt in the quantity necessary (or having the capital to do so at the last minute) is going to further drop the number of qualified contractors.

I believe USM can do this cheaper than WM in house simply by taking the liability of slips and falls off their hands. By dropping it on the contractor, the contractor ends up dealing with it. In the short run, no biggie, next year's increased insurance bill will hurt. In my past dealings with this, generally (key word) if the contractor was out there doing what they needed to be doing in efforts to combat severe weather, law suits have been difficult to win. The customer takes on an element of risk when they leave their property in nasty weather.

One factor I do not believe has been touched here is the lack of control for the local store managers. THEY are the ones that know what their lots look like. They know if they are satisfied or not. They are now stuck with whatever contractor (or series of contractors) USM hires. Not a position I would like to be in as a store manager. I would not be willing to accept a contract of this size knowing there is a strong possibility I will not be paid or at least not be paid in full. Same goes for being paid, but not in a timely manner. This leaves USM with the option of going thru contractor after contractor until the local manager is satisfied. Not enough contractors out there.

Now let's say we don't get paid. What leg does the contractor have to stand on? In Ohio, the contractor can go after the customer if their general contractor does not pay them. I know it was mentioned USM's contract does not allow this, however, I will not sign this contract based on this fact. I already know USM is not going to pay me or not pay in full.

My prediction is this: IF USM is awarded this contract, there will be very poor service this season. There will be multitudes of local contractors put out of business due to USM sticking it to them. WM is not going to be satisfied with the lower levels of service. USM will either lose the contract or this will be their un-doing. 

WM has still shown profits thru the declining economy. I am in business and can appreciate their proactive position in attempts to save money. They are huge, but they still have to look ahead and protect their future interest. My opinion is leaning towards this is not the place to look to save money. I think it will ultimately cost them more in the end. USM will either not come up with the contractors or fold. WM will have stores not maintained forcing them to directly hire contractors to maintain their lots. Sales will fall when their lot in inaccessible. Their legal team will still be fighting lawsuit battles. WM will hold money from USM until quality gets better, thus creating a larger gap in payment for the contractors left holding the bag. In theory, the big nationals can sell the idea to corporate, but I just don't think they will be able to put it together and make it happen. SMG all over again. If WM is reading this forum, let's hope they see the reality of what will happen. The country as a whole does not need to take on the debt of every small town contractor forced to file bankruptcy as well as USM when it folds. WM relies on the people in the small towns to show up and shop. This is a bad idea. 

Best of luck to all those contractors which have provided services to WM in the past. Best of luck to all those who choose to work with USM.


----------



## jlouki01

Like I said...

Some middle manager at WM read the book of Lean Princinples one weekend. He than tied it to his teams performance reviews so that everyone could get their year end bonus and 2.5% pay increase. Some guy just got a raise and more money in his pocket because he just shaved 2mil off the companies bottom line. He will be long gone when the first snow starts flying. They will have effectively written the "scope of work" in a way that makes it USM's fault for anything that goes wrong. Another guy will get a big bonus and a 2.5% pay increase for working late hours to put fires out when it goes to hell.. That guy will form a "Swat Team" ( guys willing to work around the clock to fix broken leaned out processes ) 

Now everyone is on the hunt for areas to trim the "fat". Nothing is off the table now. 

I have direct experience watching this occur at one of the largest companies in the world. I was in the food chain and watched guys sit around with a wall full of sticky notes re-writing "
processes".. 9 / 10 times not one person had any intimate knowledge about anything in the 
process" of which they were " leaning ". Usually ended up in a mess that nobody wanted to fix because we read the " Good To Great " book about not placing blame on anyone to succeed. 

Instead of rewarding people for bringing results and quality workmanship to the table we are now rewarding people for lie-ing and running our companies into the ground at the fastest rate ever in history. 

I watched millions of dollars of work get shipped over to India day in and day out. I have seen guys get rewarded with huge bonuses for saving that money. Only to abandon ship once they realized the guys over seas just weren't capable of doing the work. Just in time to use the savings as a feather in their cap to get a bigger salary in another dept or company. I remember interviewing guys and the only skill they seemed to have was " I saved my dept 15% blah blah blah" Nobody seems to care about the lost jobs and sinking economy. We are doing such a wonderful job supporting every other country however all we do is shoot ourselves in the foot. 

Snow is coming soon boys and girls. We will just have to watch this unfold and see what happens. Maybe they have it figured out? Maybe they will be triumphant? Maybe the savings will be real? Maybe as each of us look into the numbers we might find we can do a whole more with a whole lot less?

Someone burn some printer up.. print this thread and send it here..

702 SW 8th Street
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
Bentonville, Arkansas 72716-8611
c/o Mike Duke


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## Superior L & L

Its probably worth it to Walmart to use USM just to remove the liability, even if it cost the same. 

Right or wrong all I can say right now is it will take some contractors with BIG pockets to service these accounts, if they are structured like the best buy account was. 

Monthly invoices were due starting December 1st (they pay 60-90 days) then continue for the next 5 or 6 months. So your final invoice was due to them May or june 1st. Im sure if everthing went well you would get your final payment sometime in August. If thats not bad enough more of the $$$ came on the last couple of payments. 

If you get payed all the money then its not to hard to carry a couple of Best Buys, but it would be tough to carry a couple of walmarts when your first check probably will not arrive till February.


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## CDC8002

Just e-mailed page 7 of this thread to Kim Fredricks Conley in the contract dept. at walmart. Maybe she will give it to the right people?


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Why do you guys all think one guy and a pickup would be plowing the walmarts?

Probably just about every walmart would need the minimum of one 8-12' pushbox and a 8-9' plow truck and bulk salt spreader and two helper employees for snow blowing and sidewalk work... its not a 1 man operation your talking about here.


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## T-MAN

Mark they called me, I gave them your number last week


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## SteveR

Ramair You obvoiusly have not been reading the posts..The reason people think a guy in a pick up will take the contract is because that is what USM has left to choose from. They have burnt so many of us we wont work for them. The new guy with the pick up sees it as a business gain till he falls on his face.


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## LotandLand

I know a lot of contractors that have been asking me questions about "DENCO, USM, Springwise (AKA Genesis), Mirrow Lawn, and other CRAPPY brokers.... 
A LOT of contractors have NOT been burned by these brokers YET..... 
Small towns - No way USM will be able to handle.. They have burnt through all the local guys. In Bigger cities, newer companies that have never heard of these Brokers (USM) will sign up to do this and get Burnt! 
I have tried to help out any of my friends that are thinking about working for Crap Brokers... 
One problem I have with some of my contractors THINKING about working for these brokers is that I use these other contractors myself. 
When they are BROKE becuase they have not been paid by a broker - They WILL come to me, begging for money. I have told them ALL, if they work with these brokers, DONT come asking me for early payments, or loans of any type. I am NOT Bailing out my subs - Friends or not... I am not a bank. I will NOT be paying any of my subs early, or quickly if they are hungry because USM or another broker is not paying them. 
Not sure about you all - But I do Sub out a lot of snow plowing. 
I have a LOT of properties to clear and not enough men and equipment so I have to sub out to others. 
As a company that Subs out - I will not BAIL out anyone who works for a Broker that is not paying.. 
I am SURE I am not the only one here that subs out work????


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## Longae29

So guys, check this out, just looked in the phone book, there are other property management companies, and a couple pages of other businesses, there are parking lots other than wal mart, there are other management companies besides usm that pay their contractors, people need to stop thinking in terms of "this parking lot is mine" not true, never has been, never will be, there may be someone else out there, who has more efficient equipment, runs on less overhead that can handle a job. Everyone is *****ing about USM, then dont work for them.


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## Luther

snowbrothers101;825392 said:


> I would like to see Plowsite.com invite WalMart to respond to this thread. There are a lot of legitimate concerns out there that should be addressed. The fact that nothing has officially been awarded is a slap in the face to not only the contractors but also the stores. I invite Waylon Chaney or Trisha Risher from WalMart to respond to everyone's concerns.


Unfortunately that won't do a damn thing. Why would the 14th MOST PROFITABLE COMPANY IN THE *WORLD *give a rat about us snow contractors on Plowsite? The majority of their own employees live at the poverty level, they squeeze every last dime of profit from their vendors ~ many of whom have gone bankrupt ~ and negatively impact America with their world trade?

Do you really think they care about us growling that they are teaming up with USM??

Hell no......USM is falling into their trap......we can only hope USM will not recover from this relationship ~ that just may be how Walmart ultimately helps us lowly snow contractors. Longae29 is right, there are many other sites out there that need servicing. Forget about Walmart and USM.


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## Camden

USM just called me. They said they got my # from SIMA and they have some work coming available in my area.

I told them to send over the info and I'll take a look at it. I'll hear what they have to say but I'm definitely going to take into account everything I've read in this thread.


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## Mark Oomkes

TCLA;826359 said:


> Unfortunately that won't do a damn thing. Why would the 14th MOST PROFITABLE COMPANY IN THE *WORLD *give a rat about us snow contractors on Plowsite? The majority of their own employees live at the poverty level, they squeeze every last dime of profit from their vendors ~ many of whom have gone bankrupt ~ and negatively impact America with their world trade?
> 
> Do you really think they care about us growling that they are teaming up with USM??
> 
> Hell no......USM is falling into their trap......we can only hope USM will not recover from this relationship ~ that just may be how Walmart ultimately helps us lowly snow contractors. Longae29 is right, there are many other sites out there that need servicing. Forget about Walmart and USM.


So we can put you into the "Walmart is destroying the USA" camp?


----------



## Luther

Mark Oomkes;826398 said:


> So we can put you into the "Walmart is destroying the USA" camp?


Big picture.....yes.

Never been a fan of big corporate greed and growth at the cost of destroying the little guys. It's the little guys that make this country great......not the titans.


----------



## big acres

procut1;825409 said:


> Understand that we on plowsite represent a tiny tiny fraction of the number of snow companies out there.
> 
> They couldn't care less.
> 
> Everyone on plowsite could tell them to shove their contract and there phones will still be ringing off the hook with guys who are wetting their pants to plow the local walmart regardless of what the price is.


Procut... well put, but though PS is a small fraction of providers, posters here do represent a good random sampling of providers which probably leans toward the more serious service providers. After all, who else would spend the time discussing their industry, lol?

It couldn't hurt if some folks up the food chain took a peek at this. There have certainly been some relevant pitfalls mentioned that I'm sure weren't mentioned in USM's sales pitch. You chronicled the process well in the CT thread, and jloui01 hit the nail on the head here too.

They will keep cost cutting until that method no longer maximizes profits. Then they will change. WM is rolling out new store formats with wider aisles, less of a maze, more people on the floor, etc... mainly to get people over from Target. They have maximized profits on the over-cluttered, under-staffed warehouse concept, and the only way to grow is to change. Here is a link to a different store format pilot they are testing:

http://www.psfk.com/2008/08/wal-mart-to-go-purple-with-new-store-format.html

The bottom line is, WM has an interest in being the biggest and most profitable. I have no doubt that their people are paid to scour every corner of the earth to look for trends. This includes procurement of services. If they read enough of this stuff on sites like PS, they know that they have squeezed the last dime out of many quality providers and the list is getting short. I will go out on a limb and predict that at some point, they may go so far as to get back to local companies dealing direct with store managers... just as they are doing with the new store formats, and the cycle will begin again.

With my luck, they won't, and one of you guys will throw this at me in quotes in a couple of years.


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## brian85

My mananger at walmart called today and said they still want me to plow this year....but they arent paying me the rest of my money that I bid the job for. They want me to come up there and push snow FOR FREE all winter...hahahahaha yeah right...what a joke.


----------



## lilweeds

Hey Mark while I agree, Walmart is very good for America as well. Can you imagine the unemployment rate with them gone?


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## kickin'a

I talked to my Wal-Mart and to USM today, no contract has been signed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The manager and district manager told me to continue as usual, He stated that he will not jeopardize his store over this and will make sure his store remains at WM's specs, no one seems to know the real answer yet, not saying it won't happen but not saying it will. There has been talk for the last 2 yrs of doing this and it hasn't happened yet. Those of you that charge to much might be the ones to blame, we all are in business to make money but you don't and better not rely on WM for your entire income that's not good business. The guy that did WM prior to me lost it mid season do to the fact it didn't take care of it and thought no one else could do it, He was wrong and he does have more equipment and bigger equipment than me, but can't provide the service I can. His prices were excessive for the service WM got. If your gonna charge more than someone you better have a darn good reason and be able to perform at ALL times. What confuses me is he has more equipment but old equipment I have newer equipment and less and seem to do it for less and still make decent money.

Just like the auto and home industry, it was way out of hand and needed a check and balance, now it seems like its these snow accounts are gonna get a check! like I said if you over charge WM you probably won't be doing it anymore if agree to the check and balance then you probably will. As long as USM pays there bills everything should come out alright.

pray for all of us in this unpredictable business, hopefully all your equipment is paid for going into this year of snow removal.


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## Superior L & L

While we always try to take work from other contractors, It bums me out to know that this guy that does our local 6 walmart/sams club will be in serious problems this year. He runs a VERY nice operations, nice equipment and gave them great service. If anything he over serviced these places but thats what the managers wanted. 

There is no way he or anyone else could give even half the service he gives for what USM will offer.


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## hickslawns

kickin'a- I am glad you are able to service this account and do a nice job. I know this is not what you are saying, but I don't think everyone doing one of these is gouging. I am sure it happens though. We service 2 of their stores and one more in a plaza through their landlord. So, potentially I could lose 2 big accounts. Not all my eggs are in this basket, but I won't lie to you, it will hurt to lose them. 

I did meet with one of the store managers today, and he has not heard if it is official or not. I mentioned this thread and he was intrigued and wanted to know what the rumor mill was stirring. Not really his style. He is usually all business and not much for small talk. A devoted manager. This told me he is also in the dark. He mentioned talks of this the last couple years with nothing emerging. We both agreed it was late in the game to try to piece this together, however he did not forget to mention this is pretty high up in corporate for any local store managers to be heard. My prediction is this is going to be the end of USM. I told him I would not sign a contract at the terms they demand you to agree upon. Time will tell. I have a feeling there might be a lot of low-level service provided at some stores this year if USM takes the reigns. These contractors won't get paid, or at least not in full or in a timely manner, and therefore will become statistics in this bad economy. 

kickin'a is right. Don't put your eggs in one basket. Don't overextend yourselves. Continue buying vehicles and equipment cash. Continue paying off what you still owe on. This in my humble opinion is the wake up call everyone needs to follow. This is where previous generations were successful, and this is how future generations will be successful. Whether you service big corporate stores or not, I wish you all a safe and prosperous snow plow season!


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## wizardsr

Camden;826375 said:


> USM just called me. They said they got my # from SIMA and they have some work coming available in my area.
> 
> I told them to send over the info and I'll take a look at it. I'll hear what they have to say but I'm definitely going to take into account everything I've read in this thread.


Roy, you're gonna have to shovel a lot more salt off the target lot if you're gonna take on a WM... LOL!


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## Mark Oomkes

rsvees;826591 said:


> Hey Mark while I agree, Walmart is very good for America as well. Can you imagine the unemployment rate with them gone?


No kidding, just look at the unemployment rate WITH them?

You betcha, move all our manufacturing to China, India and Indonesia, so all those good paying jobs in the factories are gone and these people get to work at Wally World for half their former salary, with little or no bennies.

And since this trickles down, look at what's happening in the landscape\snow industries, prices go down, down, down.

Not sure where PA is in the list, but this craphole called MI has been in a recession for over 5 years with the highest unemployment for at least 4 years. Officially it is over 15%. But what they don't figure in is the people that have taken part time jobs, quit looking, can not file for more unemployment or even those that have moved out. My guess would be that it is closer to 25-30%. Detroit in itself is close to or over 30%, but average it out with the rest of the state and it isn't that bad.



kickin'a;826650 said:


> Those of you that charge to much might be the ones to blame, we all are in business to make money but you don't and better not rely on WM for your entire income that's not good business.


Why don't you enlighten us as to how much is too much? If the customer accepts the proposed price, is that too much? Are you suggesting that there be limits on how much we can charge?

Should Obama appoint another czar? The snow plow czar?

I'd like to nominate Grandview.

Now, if the contractor doesn't do a good job for that agreed upon price, then the account has reason to think he might be getting charged too much. But to say that some charge too much without knowing what we are charging, that's a big stretch.

Tell me, how much should I charge for being on call for basically 5 months out of the year; having to drop whatever I am doing with my family because it's snowing; missing holiday parties or inconveniencing everyone in my family because snow is forecasted; sleeping 1 or 2 hours a night when it is snowing or if I'm lucky 4 hours; checking the weather on an hourly basis while I am trying to sleep; buying trucks and equipping them to service my customers and praying that they will make it through the storm; buying salt that tripled in price in one season; finding employees that are willing to work at a moment's notice; praying none of them get sick; hoping and praying some idiot in wingtips or high heels doesn't slip and fall and sue my butt.

The list goes on.

Why don't you tell me exactly how much is too much?


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## kickin'a

It's business and no one made you choose this profession, I do agree with most of your points. BUT...............

Lets just hope we all have a profitable year with the economy the way it is. While none of the businesses we deal with don't file bankruptcy.


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## Mark Oomkes

kickin'a;827304 said:


> It's business and no one made you choose this profession, I do agree with most of your points. BUT................


Yeah, and it's a free country so nobody other than the customer can tell me that I am charging too much.

You didn't answer the question, you made the statement that some of us charge too much and that is why WM is going through and area management company.

I rebutted that statement and you don't\won't back your statement. Do I make too much or not?

Price, service, quality.


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## kickin'a

I can't speak for you unless you want to disclose some very persoanl info, so with that being said, I will tell you the guy that did WM b4 me did charge to much that is why he got fired midseason, I was told a year later what he was charging and no I did not raise my price. 

As far as you I am sure there are people that would be willing to do your accts cheaper than you do it for as with me. everyone has a different level of overhead and some work more efficient than others and that is why there is so much fluctuation in prices. If the customer is happy and your happy then all must be good, but when the service declines and they start shopping for a new snow contractor is when someone feels they are being over charged for what they are getting.

SO with WM I would have to say they feel they need to control their cost more, I was told by the WM manager they are trying to standardise the industry to control the cost better, so that tells me there are people that are over charging and some that run more efficent creates alot of questions and so now we are here, take it for what its worth. 

have a good day


----------



## Mick

kickin'a;827315 said:


> ... I was told by the WM manager they are trying to standardise the industry...


And there you go... How many times over the years has someone suggested we standardize prices by forming an association of snow plow operators? Like he said - there'll always be someone willing to do it cheaper (just like WalMart with the retail industry), so I'd say the association would only bring prices down further.


----------



## Luther

Mark Oomkes;827297 said:


> Why don't you enlighten us as to how much is too much?
> 
> Tell me, how much should I charge for being on call for basically 5 months out of the year; having to drop whatever I am doing with my family because it's snowing; missing holiday parties or inconveniencing everyone in my family because snow is forecasted; sleeping 1 or 2 hours a night when it is snowing or if I'm lucky 4 hours; checking the weather on an hourly basis while I am trying to sleep; buying trucks and equipping them to service my customers and praying that they will make it through the storm; buying salt that tripled in price in one season; finding employees that are willing to work at a moment's notice; praying none of them get sick; hoping and praying some idiot in wingtips or high heels doesn't slip and fall and sue my butt.
> 
> The list goes on.
> 
> Why don't you tell me exactly how much is too much?


Not a truer word has been spoken.....or should I say text-ed. 



kickin'a;827315 said:


> I will tell you the guy that did WM b4 me did charge to much that is why he got fired midseason, I was told a year later what he was charging and no I did not raise my price.


When something doesn't make sense, it's most likely BS.

No one would enter a contract agreeing to a price, then fire them because they didn't like the price mid way through a winter.

I can believe that they got terminated for lack of service, substandard service, or a low ball piker approaching them with a significantly lower price convincing them to make a change.....the classic dirt bag approach.


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## buckwheat_la

for my two cents worth, i thought America was a capitalist nation? if that is the case then who is anyone to be critical of how much someone is charging if that person can get the money. supply and demand, i feel for everyones situations down there with this, but hold true supply and demand well prevail, the sad fact is that with a economic downturn, this USM has everyone by the short and curlly's however, in a year or two, with everyone still remembering how they were treated, they are going to get their but's(not sure if it would edit that word) handed to them, and i hope everyone gouges the hell out of them, hard, actually i hope everyone gouges the hard this year and makes USM go under. maybe then walmart well have to look at this situation.


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## bsharp704

I heard USM is VERY VERY cheap. They are all about bottom dollar. I have a couple of buddies and competition that have plowed for USM doing some larger chain stores around the area. They said they would not even answer the phone call from USM for any future work. Burned once, Lost Money; Never again.


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## bsharp704

This just out. I heard USM will be posting a help wanted add on Craigslist.


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## bsharp704

Aaaaaa-mennnnnnnn


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## Mark Oomkes

buckwheat_la;827358 said:


> for my two cents worth, i thought America was a capitalist nation?


It was a capitalist nation, sort of, until last November.

Then a Marxist\Socialist\Communist was elected to be Prez of the USSA.


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## jomama45

Superior L & L;826875 said:


> While we always try to take work from other contractors, It bums me out to know that this guy that does our local 6 walmart/sams club will be in serious problems this year. He runs a VERY nice operations, nice equipment and gave them great service. If anything he over serviced these places but thats what the managers wanted.
> 
> There is no way he or anyone else could give even half the service he gives for what USM will offer.


Great Post. We often feel the same way about our snow competitors here, also. In the long term, we can all benefit from having good, legitamite competition. It's definately the subpar contractors that are of concern to the industry.


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## terrapro

TCLA;827353 said:


> No one would enter a contract agreeing to a price, then fire them because they didn't like the price mid way through a winter.
> .


I have been! They praised my work all the time and I bent over backwards for them but they ended up canceling mid-season because of price. I know for a fact it wasn't my service or lack of. I would rather do a professional job and loose money then my customer get substandard service.


----------



## B.Bells

terrapro;827477 said:


> I have been! They praised my work all the time and I bent over backwards for them but they ended up canceling mid-season because of price. I know for a fact it wasn't my service or lack of. I would rather do a professional job and loose money then my customer get substandard service.


says it all right there. and in my eyes USM is doing substandard work cause they have no clue honestly what they are doing. all they know is $$ and thats all they are doing, they are not looking for the "pros" they are looking for someone to help make them money and not the company actually doing the work IMO.


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## 2COR517

terrapro;827477 said:


> ... I would rather do a professional job and loose money then my customer get substandard service.


That's my business approach to all my work. Carpentry, roofing, plowing, whatever.

As for competitors, I call them allies. Obviously we'll a little more relaxed out here in the sticks. The guy I started plowing for five years ago is my best buddy in the business. We spend many an overnight chatting away as we plow. I help him out, he helps me out. Have at least three more guys I can call at any time for help.


----------



## terrapro

terrapro;827477 said:


> I have been! They praised my work all the time and I bent over backwards for them but they ended up canceling mid-season because of price. I know for a fact it wasn't my service or lack of. I would rather do a professional job and loose money then my customer get substandard service.


I hope no one takes this the wrong way especially a newb, I do not work for free or bid cheaply to get work. For good paying customers I feel obliged to stop by and double check the lot on the way home or if on my way out of the lot notice something I missed I will put it in reverse and take care of it. A couple extra minutes is a worthy investment and might mean the difference between having a life long customer or them price shopping next year.


----------



## jomama45

rsvees;826591 said:


> Hey Mark while I agree, Walmart is very good for America as well. Can you imagine the unemployment rate with them gone?


Run the numbers in your head once. I don't think there's much difference in UE benefits for someone laid-off from a decent paying job vs. working at WM 32-40 hours a week.

This shouldn't come as such a big suprise that a company like WM is approaching this the way they are. This is part of a free market/ supply & demand economy. When the economy goes to crap, those that have the funds/revenue/assets will strong-arm those that need it. This has happened for centuries, probably longer.

It's sad to say, but the vast majority of WM's customers will only look at the BOTTOM of their reciept. A sloppy parking lot will have little effect on WM's gross. WM knows this or they wouldn't be looking into this arrangement.

Whats even more sad is, IMO, USM won't have that much trouble finding subs to plow these lots. It may very well be that USM crashes & burns in this mess, but I can guarantee WM has very little to lose. The subs & USM are going to carry all the burden on this. I can't see how any of this could be good for the snow industry in the short or long term.


----------



## Cover Guy

We were talking to the managers we deal with today in central IL and they have not heard a word about this USM take over of WM lot maintenance you would thank they would have heard something by now we take care 3 WM sites and 1 Sam's


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## kickin'a

TCLA;827353 said:


> Not a truer word has been spoken.....or should I say text-ed.
> 
> When something doesn't make sense, it's most likely BS.
> 
> No one would enter a contract agreeing to a price, then fire them because they didn't like the price mid way through a winter.
> 
> I can believe that they got terminated for lack of service, substandard service, or a low ball piker approaching them with a significantly lower price convincing them to make a change.....the classic dirt bag approach.


OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH the GOD (tcla) has spoken, listen up people.


----------



## Tiflawn

*Wait till next year. They will be back.*

Winter is upon us and we have had one storm. Walmart dumping on us. They are imo making a poor business call. Most of the contractors that will bid on the lots for USM will find themselves out in the cold when they ( USM ) get relieved of there duties for not being able to fulfill their contract. You see, USM will have a hard time trying to find reputable contractors to do the job. The contractors ( including myself ) that use to do the lots, will not bid for USM for the fact that we will not work for 35 % less than we are now. They also require you to sign a 2 year no compete. So when USM gets fired, all the contractors that signed on will not be able to bid on Wally's for 2 years. The problem I see is at 2 in the am, when management needs someone to salt and cant get in touch with the guy who drives the truck. Oh well. Take another Zoloft and wait till next year when they come begging back. After Lowes went National in the summer they called me back for plowing 2 weeks ago.
Do a professional job every time and you will be rewarded both in business and life.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE GOOD GUYS. ussmileyflag ( you know who are )


----------



## 2COR517

kickin'a;827729 said:


> OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH the GOD (tcla) has spoken, listen up people.


Uh, what does that mean?


----------



## terrapro

2COR517;827772 said:


> Uh, what does that mean?


No kidding! What was Jim #18 in the nation for sales. WTF man have alittle respect. You don't have to take every word to heart but I would think Jim kinda knows what he is talking about so there is no need to be rude about it.

I know I made a comment about what he said but I didn't attempt to belittle him, I just stated my story and it consisted of a small business just trying to make it like everyone else so they had to let me go. Actually they didn't even hire another contractor afterwards, they just took care of what few events we had left so my situation was different than most in that position.


----------



## studebaker48

snowbrothers101;803620 said:


> Anyone hear about this?


I was told by a friend of mine in southern ohio. That Walmart is testing these guys out in certian areas this year. My buddy got a call today from the regional manager and he said that he had 4 of the walmart stores to plow this year.ussmileyflag


----------



## kickin'a

If he wants to play these games than so can I, and I don't care if he's#18 what ever he is #18 in, doesnt give him the right to assume he knows everything nor does it qualify him for anything. Theres obviously 17 more people better than him in something. no matter how good you think you are their is always somone better.

P.S. the contractor got fired for lack of service not cause of what he got paid, He failed!


----------



## jomama45

kickin'a;827820 said:


> If he wants to play these games than so can I, and I don't care if he's#18 what ever he is #18 in, doesnt give him the right to assume he knows everything nor does it qualify him for anything. Theres obviously 17 more people better than him in something. no matter how good you think you are their is always somone better.
> 
> P.S. the contractor got fired for lack of service not cause he got paid, He failed!


From what I understand, the company that he works for (& magages the snow division for) is rated #18 in the nation by SIMA for snow removal, so understand that this isn't his first rodeo. He's probably had more than a few accounts that would make a WM look like a drop in the bucket.

BTW, unless you were the one making the decision about the account in question, you can only ASSUME why the other contractor got fired. I think TCLA's assumption is probably more accuraite.


----------



## kickin'a

I guess you could assume what you think also, I was told so I know exactly what happened, but thanks for thinking YOU and him know more about my situation than me. Don't really matter what he runs or what he is in charge of still don't make anyone know everything! WOW!!!

That's like me saying I have more time plowing and in the business than you and him put togother without even knowing how long you 2 been it!


----------



## Camden

kickin'a;827729 said:


> OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH the GOD (tcla) has spoken, listen up people.


Not sure why you have such a hard-on for TCLA. I don't know the guy but just from reading a few of his posts you can tell he knows his head from his azz. I've read several of your posts and I'm not so sure I can say the same


----------



## kickin'a

so proud of you xysport :laughing:


----------



## Mark Oomkes

kickin'a;827729 said:


> OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH the GOD (tcla) has spoken, listen up people.





kickin'a;827820 said:


> If he wants to play these games than so can I, and I don't care if he's#18 what ever he is #18 in, doesnt give him the right to assume he knows everything nor does it qualify him for anything. Theres obviously 17 more people better than him in something. no matter how good you think you are their is always somone better.
> 
> P.S. the contractor got fired for lack of service not cause of what he got paid, He failed!





Camden;827876 said:


> Not sure why you have such a hard-on for TCLA. I don't know the guy but just from reading a few of his posts you can tell he knows his head from his azz. I've read several of your posts and I'm not so sure I can say the same





kickin'a;828289 said:


> so proud of you xysport :laughing:


Well, well, well. Aren't we just a smarty pants.

Can't debate facts, so you get personal.

Typical of someone who thinks he knows it all but really hasn't a clue.

Never met TCLA, haven't met most of the guys on PS, but I can tell you that they are far more intelligent than you and have more business experience than can dream of.

But that's coming from a 15 YO girl in Miami, so what do I know.

Nice profile page, tells everyone a lot about you. So in reality, YOU could be the girl from Florida. Since it's the internet and all.

Keep it up, great way to make friends.


----------



## Luther

kickin'a;827820 said:


> If he wants to play these games than so can I,
> 
> P.S. the contractor got fired for lack of service not cause of what he got paid, He failed!


I don't play games ~ but I do like to have a little fun. Not that it's really necessary, however this is the context of my comment since you do not recall.......

We have never been fired mid season based on the agreed upon price. I find it hard to believe others have if they in fact performed as expected.

Now terrapro stated he has. It doesn't make sense to me, but I believe him......I learn something new every day.

I have never and would never claim I know it all, or even claim to be the smartest man in the room. I do realize I am not the only one here with some experience.

You're at a disadvantage if you take all of this so seriously.



kickin'a;827844 said:


> I was told so I know exactly what happened,


Thank you ~ that says it all. :waving:


----------



## T-MAN

jomama45;827835 said:


> From what I understand, the company that he works for (& magages the snow division for) is rated #18 in the nation by SIMA for snow removal, so understand that this isn't his first rodeo. He's probably had more than a few accounts that would make a WM look like a drop in the bucket.
> .


Not looking to stir up the hornets nest, but those lists really dont hold much water.
Many of the previous top dogs are long gone, and/or bankrupt and should be in prison for fraud. Its an honor system as well, no one audits your books for bragging rights. If you want to claim you did 17million, put it on the form.
I know of several contractors in this area who also would be top 20-50, there not interested. 50-100 there's alot of outfits not on that list. Don't believe everything you see or read in a magazine or especially HERE LOL.


----------



## Mick

T-MAN;828536 said:


> ... Don't believe everything you see or read in a magazine or especially HERE LOL.


I'm shocked, Todd. I thought everything posted here was absolute gospel.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Mick;828553 said:


> I'm shocked, Todd. I thought everything posted here was absolute gospel.


As you are two of the very few who I have met in person from here, I hope you guys don't break my Miami cover.


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## buckwheat_la

since this has been discussed, argued about, appologized for, and now moved along, i would love to hear more about USM, Walmart, and what contractors are planning to do, i would think a petition may be in order at this point, show USM and Walmart what you think of what is going on, also maybe a forum showing/describing issues contractors are having or have had in the past with USM or Walmart. Just some friendly advice from your local Canadian snow remover.
p.s. i am happy we don't have a USM here, most management companies here are more worried about slip and falls, and a good job being done then they are about bottom line costs


----------



## Luther

T-MAN;828536 said:


> Not looking to stir up the hornets nest, but those lists really dont hold much water.
> Many of the previous top dogs are long gone, and/or bankrupt and should be in prison for fraud. Its an honor system as well, no one audits your books for bragging rights. If you want to claim you did 17million, put it on the form.
> I know of several contractors in this area who also would be top 20-50, there not interested. 50-100 there's alot of outfits not on that list. Don't believe everything you see or read in a magazine or especially HERE LOL.


Couldn't agree more. That was all brought up in another thread that ended up going POOF!

I enjoy a good high-jack but not this. Never bragged, didn't start it and I'm embarrassed that any of this is about me.

If anyone thinks I'm looking for any recognition, they don't know me. I just enjoy the professionals here (as well as the hammerheads) and the information passed.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

TCLA;828581 said:


> If anyone thinks I'm looking for any recognition, they don't know me. I just enjoy the professionals here (as well as the *hammerheads*) and the information passed.


I know which of those categories I fit in. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


----------



## procut1

I have come to the conclusion, in the middle of a snowstorm, that the 15 years I have been doing this, I dont know crap.

I live snow for half the year, start preparing in july. And I think I do a better job than anyone in my area.

Yet....If you talk to the residents of the condos that I do........I suck.....ha


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## buckwheat_la

i got that too, last year, then they drove around and saw how bad some other places were, (we had a record year for snow last year) pretty soon i looked pretty good, i find the best thing to do is ask them what you could do better, you well find they shut up pretty fast


----------



## kickin'a

Thank you Todd, Obviously we all have opinions some better some worse, some ideas work in some area and some ideas dont work in others.

TCLA sorry man, I must have taken your post the wrong way. I am always willing to debate, it only makes us better. After all were all on the same side here (suppose to be). and the post was about USM trying to knock all of our prices down to make them look good to WM. If USM succeeds we the contractors will have a rough road ahead, IMO.


----------



## big acres

kickin'a;828623 said:


> Thank you Todd, Obviously we all have opinions some better some worse, some ideas work in some area and some ideas dont work in others.
> 
> TCLA sorry man, I must have taken your post the wrong way. I am always willing to debate, it only makes us better. After all were all on the same side here (suppose to be). and the post was about USM trying to knock all of our prices down to make them look good to WM. If USM succeeds we the contractors will have a rough road ahead, IMO.


Dang... now that you two have made nice, the entertainment factor is gone!


----------



## Chrisxl64

USM seems to making big scrmables to find anyone who wants work from them. I've gotten 3 calls from 3 diff people this week, "checking if I needed new accounts, cause they have alot to offer."


----------



## Longae29

These USM guys really dissapoint me, i'd never work for them based on what their terms state in the subcontractor agreement, and based on what i've read on here, but I filled out and sent in the paperwork nonetheless because i'm very interested to see what they offer for prices. I submitted everything over a month ago, and still havent heard back, and my contact person doesnt return my messages, must have plenty of guys around here willing to bend over for them!


Seems like they are going after all SIMA members.....


----------



## procut1

What Ive said all along.

First of all, I am the contractor, I provide the contract, not the customer.

You dont give the electric company, Mastercard, or your vendors YOUR contract to sign.

Also as the contractor, I give the payment terms. 

My salt guy has terms. My sealcoat supplier has terms. My paint supplier has terms.

I either pay their terms or Im not a customer. 

I had to fill out a credit app to get terms with all of my vendors.

Do any of us send our customers credit applications? Or do we just sign a contract for $20,000 and hope they make the payment every month.

If I sent any of my vendors a contract to do business with me they would look at it and laugh.

Yet its a common occurrence here.

If you actually read their agreement, the short version is this:

USM will pay you if you follow the rules.

However.

USM protects themselves against any possible contingency.

If they dont bill walmart you wont get paid.
If they bill walmart late....You get paid late
If walmart pays late....USM pays you late
If walmart has a dispute and doest pay, you dont get paid.

If USM chooses to side with walmart, right or wrong, you dont get paid.

And if you dont get paid, you cannot sue, cannot lien, cannot contact walmart, and cannot exercise any type of collection action.

If you read their contract, with it being 100% one sided, you would say "Who in their right mind would work for these people"

But, there are plenty of guys who would wet their pants to plow the local walmart, that will sign anything for any price. Plain and simple.

Working for USM is no different than electing Obama.

You do it solely on FAITH.

You sign the contract and HOPE that everything goes well and you get paid. And hopefully it does, but there is no protection if it doesnt.

The fact is, if USM has the contract, you have to go through them.

You just decide if youre willing to work on hope and faith.


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## Chrisxl64

well we cant eat hope and faith,,,i dunno bout you all but i like to eat.


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## Mark Oomkes

procut1;828853 said:


> Working for USM is no different than electing Obama.
> 
> You do it solely on FAITH.
> 
> You sign the contract and HOPE that everything goes well and you get paid. And hopefully it does, but there is no protection if it doesnt.
> 
> You just decide if youre willing to work on hope and faith.


Huh, maybe he owns USM? Maybe he took it over just like he did GM?


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss

Chrisxl64;828827 said:


> USM seems to making big scrmables to find anyone who wants work from them. I've gotten 3 calls from 3 diff people this week, "checking if I needed new accounts, cause they have alot to offer."


Really? i know they would call us for home depots or walfarts and none has happened yet.. Ive already talked to them about these local properties near us and have also confirmed that currently one of the walmarts doesnt even have a snow contract in place yet :/ How, didnt they get the contracts or not?


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## big acres

Mark Oomkes;828916 said:


> Huh, maybe he owns USM? Maybe he took it over just like he did GM?


The Snowbama Plan, of course. After the nobel, he might win contractor of the year 2010.


----------



## Eronningen

The city I live in is about 100,000 people. 4 years ago I was contacted by some sort of national chain maintenence company. They wanted a bid on a huge lot in town, not a WM but similiar. ( In my mind I chuckled knowing a buddy that has the contract) I said there was no way I could handle that lot, I only have pickups and small equipment and that would take a loader with 20' pusher, multiple skidsteers, etc. They said, "Oh no problem, you can handle it, just give us a bid based on this and that." I declined. 

Since than, almost all the big lots in town are getting gobbled up by these kind of companies. Through the grape vine I hear they are sub three time before they are done. All the real big lot pushers are sitting almost idle unless they want to sub from a guy with a pickup/plow combo. What a joke. 

I too thought they (national maintenence company) will pay when these lots are all screwed up at 8 am, slip and falls, little snow piles all over the lots, etc. AND this is what happens every year darn near on these lots, they keep calling mid season trying to replace the idiots they have and before you know it the year is passed and they get by somehow?????? This I'm sure is not the case in every situation but it is around here more than not. Wow.. Glad I'm not running big iron, even though I wish I was, it would be a tough battle that I know a buddy is going through right now. 

I thought in the roofing trades I'm much more involved with that there was too many low ballers to deal with but at least in a "skilled" trade like that and many many more you can seperate yourself from the competition. What ever happened to the big lots management coming to your shop to inspect and verify your equipment to handle their lots?


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## tutianoburgante

Hey procut we thought we did the best job in the area at least Poughkeepsie..lol


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## 2COR517

big acres;829339 said:


> The Snowbama Plan, of course. After the nobel, he might win contractor of the year 2010.


Why did you have to that? I was enjoying myself here and you had to bring his name up.:realmad::realmad:

Contractor of the year. Hah!!


----------



## buckwheat_la

so has anyone come up with any ideas for dealing with USM yet, i hear a lot of barking and very little bitting. I have a suggestion for all you in this situation, why doesn't someone start a USM issues thread, and have contractors share their bad experiences so at the very least, other contractors that get burned, or who are going to do work for them that they can see peoples experiences, i honestly believe that USM is the heart of this situation, and would love to see them get their just deserts. hopefully they well screw enough people that USM well either have to change or go out of buisness. i just can't believe that this can go on for very long, personally i hope that USM gets their asses sued for many millions by hundreds of people


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## lbfmd

buckwheat there are several on here already and that doesn't count the deleted ones.


----------



## procut1

tutianoburgante;829376 said:


> Hey procut we thought we did the best job in the area at least Poughkeepsie..lol


Fair enough. Ill give you the "best" title for Poughkeepsie.

Ill take Beacon.

Deal?


----------



## bike5200

Just a note where I live we do not get the snow that happens up north, does my below theory work out

USM hires Johnny lowballer to clean a WM. It snows, Johnny cleans the lot and he thinks he done and has done a good job. USM calls Johnny and says the owners says the lot is not done, and he needs to go back and finish the job, Johnny says my truck is broke down and I can not. 

USM calls Sam lowballer and tells him to go and clean this lot. Sam gets to the WM and sees it is cleaned half way, Sam works on it for a while and is pissed that he is cleaning up some ones mess and after a while he feels he is done. 

WM calls and tells USM the lot is not done. USM calls Sam and tells him he needs to go back and finish the lot, Sam says he is tried, been out for 14 hours and is going home to sleep.

The weather improves, sun comes out and with the salt and the two contractors that have work on the WM lot, snow melts and the lot is in good condition.

Now since two contractors have work on the lot and nether did the job right, meeting USM contract, USM says they are not paying ether contractor. The weather improvement got the lot in shape.

Now USM got a lot cleared and did not cost them anything

I do not know if this happens or can happen but if it does some money can be made.


----------



## procut1

I wouldnt say they plan it out like that but Im sure it does happen.

The main thing I would be concerned with is that there there are a lot of people on "their side" and only you on this side.

The manager in New York can report back to USM in california that you;re not doing a good job. Well USM will take their word for it and you wont get paid.


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## buckwheat_la

the truely unfortunate part is that it doesn't sound like they have done anything to safe guard the contractor from this thing, has someone asked them what a contractor is suppose to do if they feel they haven't been treated right, i wonder if they would smile at you and say "we would never do that":whistling: i love the part where you sign saying you well not sue if you aren't treated fairly, i am telling anyone considering doing one of these contracts, DON'T, someone doesn't put something like that in a contract unless they plan to use the clause a lot, if they were a reputable company they wouldn't need to put something like that in their contract


----------



## big acres

buckwheat_la;830593 said:


> the truely unfortunate part is that it doesn't sound like they have done anything to safe guard the contractor from this thing,


That is undoubtedly part of their business model and factored in as part of their projected profit margins, that is... contractors who will not be paid to to minor errors on paperwork, or miscommunication with store, or USM rep.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss

bike5200;830448 said:


> Just a note where I live we do not get the snow that happens up north, does my below theory work out
> 
> USM hires Johnny lowballer to clean a WM. It snows, Johnny cleans the lot and he thinks he done and has done a good job. USM calls Johnny and says the owners says the lot is not done, and he needs to go back and finish the job, Johnny says my truck is broke down and I can not.
> 
> USM calls Sam lowballer and tells him to go and clean this lot. Sam gets to the WM and sees it is cleaned half way, Sam works on it for a while and is pissed that he is cleaning up some ones mess and after a while he feels he is done.
> 
> WM calls and tells USM the lot is not done. USM calls Sam and tells him he needs to go back and finish the lot, Sam says he is tried, been out for 14 hours and is going home to sleep.
> 
> The weather improves, sun comes out and with the salt and the two contractors that have work on the WM lot, snow melts and the lot is in good condition.
> 
> Now since two contractors have work on the lot and nether did the job right, meeting USM contract, USM says they are not paying ether contractor. The weather improvement got the lot in shape.
> 
> Now USM got a lot cleared and did not cost them anything
> 
> I do not know if this happens or can happen but if it does some money can be made.


Theyd probably work out something between both of them... not saying it cant happen but unlikely.

Why does everything think usm only hires lowballers? We make plenty off of any sub contract work from them, do a fair job and dont run into many issues ever.


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## Italiano67

I assume that no new news has come down the grapevine with Wally World. I suppose since most contracts are from Nov. 1 they will wait until very close till then. How very considerate of them.


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## johndeereguy

I called USM and they now have a special dept. they send you too for this account. I left my name and number with em. I have read lots of bad things on here about them, but you always here the bad. I will see if they call me back and what they pay. Not to big of a deal either way, but I will see for myself. I work with a very similar comppany for a major truck stop I do and get along just fine.


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## fourthcoastcont

They called this morning asking if we where still interested in plowing are walmart. Thay couldn't tell me anything about terms, scope of work, etc. Looks like they are fishing for prices for now


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## kickin'a

what do you think the average budget is for a WM and a super WM, not sure if it is possible to figure since most areas get different amounts. I know WM knows exactly what each store's cost are.


----------



## hickslawns

I know what my stores pay. I also know I will walk away from it if USM asks me to do them. They will need a retainer paid in full at the start of the season for what the average cost of these stores the last 5 years has been. Guess I won't have to worry about getting any work from USM.


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## kickin'a

My manager just called me today and told me USM contacted them today, I assume it's a done deal.


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## jrc5049

kickin'a;833870 said:


> My manager just called me today and told me USM contacted them today, I assume it's a done deal.


talked to my manager today and he called USM for me to see what was going for b/c i told him i need to know the facts before i start plowing. and the guy at USM said they DO NOT have the contract yet and are still in negotiations. After yesterday some woman called me and said that they just aquired the contract for my store! LIE!!!! they do not. I think they were trying to get me on board so they could tell corporate " hey we got a service provider for another store" and take my contract away (i never called them back). Keep on fighting guys this is not a done deal yet


----------



## ColumbiaLand

Hey guys, I'm pretty sure USM has the contract, I was told by my account manager at another national company that walmart went with them. Talk about late in the season. 
If they did get the contract you can now bid on any walmart for $7500.00 per season. 

Good Luck!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Posted this on one of the other WM threads:

What makes you guys think that Wally World will care about lesser service if they're prices are significantly lower?

This is the company that has introduced the lowest priced goods for everything. And if you don't like it, don't need it or just want your money back, they FORCE the vendor to take it back, for no reason?

So with an attitude like that, why do you think it would matter to them as long as people still can get in and out?

Where else are they going to cut costs? Utilities? Property taxes? They have beat down every other supplier and now they are moving on to the next in line. Just look at their landscapes, they don't spend squat on installation or maintaining them, and now you think they are going to care that a bunch of plow jockeys are ticked because they won't plow for what they did last year?

Sorry, but I think if you believe poor service is going to drive them back to reputable contractors, I think you're in for a rude awakening.


----------



## kickin'a

Agree with you Mark, on top of that, from what I'm hearing the slip and falls will not be WM problem it will be the snow contractors. Don't see how thats possible but who knows.


----------



## Luther

If and when it reaches that stage, culpability of slip and falls will generally be determined by a judge. Even though you may sign something to the effect of indemnifying the client......you can't sign away someones right to sue you or anyone else for that matter.

Most of the time your insurance carrier will settle before a judge or jury will hear it.


----------



## jrc5049

TCLA;834079 said:


> If and when it reaches that stage, culpability of slip and falls will generally be determined by a judge. Even though you may sign something to the effect of indemnifying the client......you can't sign away someones right to sue you or anyone else for that matter.
> 
> Most of the time your insurance carrier will settle before a judge or jury will hear it.


Exactly tlca, any smart attorney will try and sue walmart, if not all party's involved, Walmart is worth billions and billions!!! not the snow plow guy, or USM. So it will still be walmart getting sued, still. Settle out of court for a cool couple million bucks? you know how it works...


----------



## jrc5049

also, here is the lowdown guys about what is going on as far as i know, and I have confimered this with contractors from other stores, about 8 others, and when my manager called USM to find out what the heck is going on. First of all USM does NOT have all the contracts yet (guy he talked to on the phone). Since it is so late in the season the stores were directed to use the current service provider. (as long as your manager told USM they are happy with the current guy) USM, as of right now is only doing the stores that there was no service provider for the year. or ones that they guys did a crappy job. So currently i am still have my job, subbmitting bills as i normally would any other year. as are the contractors from the others walmarts around here that i have talked to. BUT, big but here. When USM does get the contract for ALL walmarts, not just a few. we are back to square one again and many of us will be out of work. I can only hope the USM F___'s up the lots they got this year and are denied the rest of the stores contracts. USM has been calling my phone non stop, and i will not answer, They have nothing to offer me at this point. Maybe when they get the contract we can talk, but untill then it is buiseness as ussual for me until my store or walmart tells me otherwise, after all thats who i work for, NOT USM.
I think the reason USM keeps calling me is bc the store does not want to lose me, so USM is trying very hard to get me on board. but like i said. currently they have nothing to offer me now. They left me one voice mail that said "hey we were awarded the contract for your store in your area could you call us back with a price?" (Big Lie) Next day 3 more calls, all by different people. One says "We are currently trying to aqquire the contract in your area could you call us back with pricing?" Why would i call them back and bow down to them so they can tell walmart ( Hey walmart we have another contractorer on board! we can go ahead and take care of that store for you now) YEA RIGHT I am NOT helping them put me out of buiseness this season. Bc like i said before i was told to keep on plowing this year like i always have, and thats what i am oing to do. and pray that they dont not get my contract at least this year.
Sorry for the long post. had alot to get off my chest


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## CDC8002

So this is whats up here. We have two about 20 miles. apart. One we signed 5 years ago, USM is taking it as of Nov. 1. never received our 15 day written notice from Walmart only a call from USM last Friday telling me they were taking it over. Manager of this store said after one year our contract is by the month. This is a Walmart Master service agreement not one of our own business contracts. We service this store year around but it's considered monthly. The other store we do the contract was signed by the manager and it is our contract not Walmarts Master Service Agreement. USM does not have this as of yet but I believe when our contract ends USM will assume this store also. This manager also told me last week we were all set but I don't believe he will be able to sign another contract with us. It ends early next year. USM has been calling all weekend, Sat - twice, Sun - four times, Mon - twice. Someone different each day. They want numbers, Sq. Ft. of parking lot, man hours, fuel cost, equipment used, number of employee's, how long to plow lot, tons of salt, how many times we salt a season and a price for this plow season. Four different ways. By the push, by the inch, by the hour and a season price for six months. No specs, no terms. I don't thick it's any of there business. No specs to see or contract to read then no price. They should know these questions if there going to manage these properties. Both Walmarts are getting a invoice for Nov.1 well see what happen's!


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## kickin'a

I totally agree CDC8002, They should already know these prices. Wal-Mart has these numbers down better than most contractors, they know how each penny is spent and where, that is why I assume we are here at this cross road because the prices fluctuate across the country and rightfully so. I know what it cost me to do their lot and will refuse it if they don't pay enough, we all want things as cheap as we can we pay for something, but at some point we'll have to step aside and wish the next guy well. Especially if its on budget and we get hammered this winter. GOD HELP US!


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## Mick

CDC8002: 

1. Verify through WalMart
2. Don't give away any information


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## bartolini

*Walmarts and Supercenters*

Back in April 2009 we were asked to bid Walmarts for a Springwise speculating the account for all of NY. There were dozens. I think we passed up on the spec bid.


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## tman3007

*pushing slush*

Pushed around a little slush last night at our Walmart out here in Colorado. USM doesn't have this one yet...tomorrow may be a different story. Also did some salting and shoveling. Ground temps were literally a couple degrees from it really sticking. Gonna be doing some serious salting tonight cuz everything is wet and cold right now.

Our store manager said billing as usual until further notice...so I say let it snow!!! I've already prepared to go on without Walmart. Like I keep saying, there was life before Walmart accounts and there will be life after.

USM has been calling our office number but they won't leave a message. Fine by me. I refuse to work for them. Gonna keep plowing and sweeping til they throw me out kickin' and a screamin.

Chat Later, Todd


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## redman6565

how is USM paying wise? i have an opportunity to bid a few wal-marts in my area...


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## Snow Queen

*USM Contract*

I have been reading the over whelming response to the USM contract with Walmart.. As many of you we have been a loyal vendor to Walmart for many years. We have seen Lowes, Home Depot and other large companies go with National Contracts also. The timing of this is beyond belief what this will do to companies and their employees and families. Snow season is here, and now they want to cut us off at the knees.Walmart needs to know the horrible service they will receive at the rates their new shining star is offering. My neighbor kids would not even shovel for that!!!!!! Shame on you USM hope you sleep well at night for what you are doing to our industry..Next will be our contracts for sweeping, powerwashing and landscaping.


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## Mister Plow

This is NO different than how they deal with ALL their suppliers and vendors. 

Wal-Mart DOES NOT CARE!!!!

They will continue to take every penny they can from everyone in order to sell stuff at lower prices so everybody will shop there. It's a MAD, MAD circle of DEATH! And it WILL be the downfall of the USA.

I don't shop there, I have too much respect for my country to give them any money if I can help it.


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## PowerWagon

Mister Plow;835743 said:


> This is NO different than how they deal with ALL their suppliers and vendors.
> 
> Wal-Mart DOES NOT CARE!!!!.


slip and falls?? if snow is not done moved.. they call the USM?

if some one slip and fall then WM says it's USM's problem not ours..


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## Bigcat99

PowerWagon;835747 said:


> slip and falls?? if snow is not done moved.. they call the USM?
> 
> if some one slip and fall then WM says it's USM's problem not ours..


I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but can we get a do over on that one? At least explain what the point was in relation to the prior quote.

Thanks!


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## Mark Oomkes

Mister Plow;835743 said:


> This is NO different than how they deal with ALL their suppliers and vendors.
> 
> Wal-Mart DOES NOT CARE!!!!
> 
> They will continue to take every penny they can from everyone in order to sell stuff at lower prices so everybody will shop there. It's a MAD, MAD circle of DEATH! And it WILL be the downfall of the USA.
> 
> I don't shop there, I have too much respect for my country to give them any money if I can help it.


Exactly my point that I made earlier.



PowerWagon;835747 said:


> slip and falls?? if snow is not done moved.. they call the USM?
> 
> if some one slip and fall then WM says it's USM's problem not ours..


 



Bigcat99;835863 said:


> I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but can we get a do over on that one? At least explain what the point was in relation to the prior quote.
> 
> Thanks!


:laughing:

The ONLY thing that would make them rethink this is if customers can not get in and out of their lots, and they can't sell their products. Actually, it isn't their products, it's the vendors' product until it sells.


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## Bigcat99

"The ONLY thing that would make them rethink this is if customers can not get in and out of their lots, and they can't sell their products. Actually, it isn't their products, it's the vendors' product until it sells."

You are 110% correct!


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## fireball

Cheer up-USM has unleashed a bunch of headhunters looking to fill area managers positions. A dream job- you get to screw someone first


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## Superior L & L

fireball;836824 said:


> headhunters


:laughing::laughing::laughing: isnt that every male


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## Tiflawn

Just to keep up to date with this USM crap. Yesterday I was contacted by the co manager of my Walmart that I take ( I mean took ) care of for plowing, sweeping, and mowing, and was told corporate called their store and two others that I contract with and asked who their preferred contractor was. The co seemed to think that was a good thing. However, I believe USM is trying to get the info so they can call those contractors first. Guess what USM, you are SOL. I am confident that you will not have WalMart very long and I also believe this catastrophic mess that you and corp. have created will be the end of USM. We do not give our hard earned $$$$$$ away. I will sit back in my LOWES parking lot that I got back this year because they were afraid of what might happen if a national was in charge, and watch the mess unfold next door. :laughing:
Just my opinion. Let the games begin


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## johndeereguy

I hate to break it to you guys but there will be plenty of good contractors who will plow for USM at Wal-Mart. Peterbuilt asked a question a week or so ago about how many guys on here plow for Wal Mart currenly and I think 5 or 6 do now. Who plows all of them? We are a very minute number of the contractors that plow. If all of us said we will not plow for USM or WalMart, it would make them no differance. I have heard all of the "bad" stories about USM, but like I have said in previous post. I currently plow of a similar company and get along great. Not saying they are all the same, but I am looking at trying to get one WalMart. Just my 2 cents wort


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## Luther

What did you say??

Sorry, your avatar has my complete attention........wesport


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## DPM

I currently do work for USM, for multiple years. They have not been too bad to work for but, a few things bother me. I am bidding on a Walmart that I did with much appreciation from the store manager, now I have the hassle of USM. I do another property that they bid on and the property mgr. told me their prices which were ludicrous. He didn't want to use them so I kept that property, but had to lower my prices.


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## procut1

Johndeere is right.

As much as I would like to see it. I dont predict the catastrophic failure that we;re talking about on here.

Walmart may be a tough negotiator, but theyre not stupid. They didnt get this big by making stupid decisions. While we may not agree with a lot of their business practices, the fact is it does work. They get millions of people in the door and sell billions in product.

USM will pull this off. Walmart will not stand for terrible service. Their standards may not be as high as we think they should but they know the numbers. 

USM will be held accountable and they are under a lot of pressure. This is the "big kahuna" for them.

Like I said.....We on here represent a tiny tiny fraction of the plowing community.

There are plenty of guys out there that will plow for that price and will do a good job. It sucks. We all wish we could get the price that we think we should. 

You see the trends. These national companies are here to stay. Theyre not going anywhere.

I know that I cant work for their snow prices so I just dont go after that work.

There is other work that I do that their pricing is right in line to what I charge, that stuff Ill do.

For every 1 guy that hangs up on USM when they call, there are 20 that want to listen to them and start wetting their pants that they have a chance at the local big box store,


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## Superior L & L

procut1;837573 said:


> For every 1 guy that hangs up on USM when they call, there are 20 that want to listen to them and start wetting their pants that they have a chance at the local big box store,


This is for sure the thought of plowing big lots gets the little guy excited!


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## Ne1

As I read all 12 pages of this thread it makes me wonder why so many guys want to plow a Walmart store. Who really cares that USM has 2,500 of them. There's a great chance you will get a call from them and they can tell you what there going to pay for each location. Most likely its going to be dirt cheap. So go plow for USM and make THERE business successful because your doing all the hard work. Then everyone can come on this site and tell there stories of how they got screwed by the big national company. JMO!!


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## johndeereguy

ya I may not be the biggest on here, or post very often, but one thing i have, is the HOTEST avatar!!


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## Peterbilt

Yeah, Linn. Hottest avatar ever!!!!!!!!

There are lots of good accounts out there. I still don't get why everyone thinks walmart is so great. I went to bid one of the local ones about a month ago. I pulled into the lot, then turned around and left. 

Its not that I couldn't handle taking care of it, its that I don't want to. Don't need it.

J.


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## Superior L & L

Plowing stuff thats open 24-7 is a real pain !!!!! Always working around cars !!!
I love my retail that closes at 9:00pm and doesnt open till 7;00am .............wide open with not a thing to plow around!


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## hickslawns

This is where the "guys wetting their pants to plow" will get boned. I can assure you of a few things about plowing a 24/7 super center. The traffic is atrocious. We can plow 6-8" snow on a Tuesday night after Christmas season faster than a 2" snow on a weekend during daytime hours between Thanksgiving and Christmas. There are times when the lot is still full at 1-2am even in the summer time when we are sweeping. There are just some variables very difficult to factor into one of these bids. This will put many of small town contractors down for the count. That is if failure to pay/failure to pay timely a la USM doesn't do them in. If we lose ours, then so be it. They will come back eventually. If not, then we will survive one way or another. Shoot, I know enough managers and district managers at WM I could probably get a job there if all else fails. :waving: "Thanks for shopping!"


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## redman6565

Just got underbid by 24% on my Wal-Mart...wonderful...at least i'll have live entertainment while plowing across the street this year.


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## buckwheat_la

i have posted in other threads, i am going to do it here to, everyone (weither you plow WM or not) should be phone WM and complaining about USM, lets show our support for our fellow snow contractors


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## JFreak

I was approached roughly 5-6 years ago from a national company called Cherry Logistics. Two guys came to my office and offered me some Lowes and Jewel/Albertsons grocery stores. I said to the guys doesn't so and so plow them now. He said yeh, but we stold them from him. We have a guy Joe Jackson that used to be a higher up in the Albertson organization and he got copies of all the contracts and last couple years of invoices and decided to quit and come start Cherry Logistics with me and Greg. I saw what the old company was charging and and what Cherry was charging. I asked the guy, how are you guys gonna make money at these prices? Mike "the Guy" said we are gonna [email protected]#! them with the salt. I said what's that mean. He said for example we will put down 2 tons and charge them for 4 tons. I said hey man I don't working for you but I want nothing to do with the salt!!! This story happened and I 'm not making it up out of spite.They promised me the world and I had a few pieces of extra equipment and signed up!. Immediately they started jackin me around about the money and not paying me every 2 weeks like promised. I had to wait much longer. But basically I was told if you don't finish the season we won't pay you. To make a long story short my last check was missing around 4800 bucks. STAY AWAY GUYS. I was at the expo in Kentucky this week and we are not the only ones. If we all say no for 1-2 years they will be done!!!!!


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## JFreak

Everybody owed money should get together and do a class action law suit!


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## JFreak

Oh yeh. It is true, USM did get all the Walmarts. Every single one. You'll see. There are some multi year contracts that have to finish there term though.


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## JFreak

Red Roofs and Kohls and I think Target just went National too


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## JFreak

When they take the profit out of plowing the guys won't get up on Christmas or New Years to go plow for nothing!


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## Mick

JFreak;847255 said:


> I was approached roughly 5-6 years ago from a national company called Cherry Logistics. Two guys came to my office and offered me some Lowes and Jewel/Albertsons grocery stores. I said to the guys doesn't so and so plow them now. He said yeh, but we stold them from him. We have a guy Joe Jackson that used to be a higher up in the Albertson organization and he got copies of all the contracts and last couple years of invoices and decided to quit and come start Cherry Logistics with me and Greg. I saw what the old company was charging and and what Cherry was charging. I asked the guy, how are you guys gonna make money at these prices? Mike "the Guy" said we are gonna [email protected]#! them with the salt. I said what's that mean. He said for example we will put down 2 tons and charge them for 4 tons. I said hey man I don't working for you but I want nothing to do with the salt!!! This story happened and I 'm not making it up out of spite.They promised me the world and I had a few pieces of extra equipment and signed up!. Immediately they started jackin me around about the money and not paying me every 2 weeks like promised. I had to wait much longer. But basically I was told if you don't finish the season we won't pay you. To make a long story short my last check was missing around 4800 bucks. STAY AWAY GUYS. I was at the expo in Kentucky this week and we are not the only ones. If we all say no for 1-2 years they will be done!!!!!


What did you expect? That they'd screw Lowe's, etc, but be straight with you?


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## 2COR517

Mick;847315 said:


> What did you expect? That they'd screw Lowe's, etc, but be straight with you?


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Morning Mick!


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## SteveR

I did finally speak to a live person at USM..She told me that they were letting those with contracts in place finish out the term before USM takes them. They asked if I was interested and had I worked with them in the past to which I told her that I had and it didnt go well for me but dont be afraid to send me the paperwork. I really doubt that Ill ever work for them but I do want the chuckle of reading the pricing and joke contract..


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## Mick

SteveR;847342 said:


> I did finally speak to a live person at USM..She told me that they were letting those with contracts in place finish out the term before USM takes them. They asked if I was interested and had I worked with them in the past to which I told her that I had and it didnt go well for me but dont be afraid to send me the paperwork. I really doubt that Ill ever work for them but I do want the chuckle of reading the pricing and joke contract..


*They* were *letting*...? Like they have a choice. Who does she think she is? Just reinforces their attitude.

I just shook my head while reading that contract. SO MANY it was hard to narrow down to a couple. But you are a contractor with them, but cannot use subcontractors. Has to be your employees. And, if you make over a certain amount with them ($10,000?), you agree to a 4% reduction in pay??? Are your employees going to agree to a 4% reduction in salary, too?

Please, someone tell me why you would plow for these ###?

Morning, 2COR517.


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## bighornjd

rsvees;826591 said:


> Hey Mark while I agree, Walmart is very good for America as well. Can you imagine the unemployment rate with them gone?


No worse than it was before Wal-Mart came to be. They haven't been around forever you know. There would just be a lot more smaller stores employing the same if not more people. There would also be more competition to keep prices reasonable instead of sourcing all their cheap ass products from a foreign country and shoving it down the consumers throats as a 'bargain' and putting the little stores out of business to create a monopoly. Now that they are achieving that a little more all the time they can begin the price gouging process on their cheap crap. Isn't Wal-Mart great? Sign me up for the Wally World sux club...


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## tj-way

I was just contacted by USM. They listed what they were willing to pay. I think it is too low, I need to get paid twice as much to make it worth my time, not even to bring up all the insurance bs. They gave me no advanced noticed about the being there contractor until it was snowing hard. I lost money on not being ready and I am going to see if I can get an increase in pay. Does anybody have any advise. I feel like I am getting screwed and I have read a bunch of posts that make me consider leaving the contractor.


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## buckwheat_la

tj-way;896143 said:


> I was just contacted by USM. They listed what they were willing to pay. I think it is too low, I need to get paid twice as much to make it worth my time, not even to bring up all the insurance bs. They gave me no advanced noticed about the being there contractor until it was snowing hard. I lost money on not being ready and I am going to see if I can get an increase in pay. Does anybody have any advise. I feel like I am getting screwed and I have read a bunch of posts that make me consider leaving the contractor.


have you already signed with them? if so you are probably screwed


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## Burkartsplow

johndeereguy;837838 said:


> ya I may not be the biggest on here, or post very often, but one thing i have, is the HOTEST avatar!!


Not as hot as grandviews avatar. Giada is so much hotter then that chick. That is why I watch the food network.


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## fourthcoastcont

LOCAL UPDATE -the contractors here for USM 
Ogdensburg NY
-Only had two dusting slipper early AM 
- Had Walmart associte slip and fall, was sent to Emergency room out for 3 days

Potsdam NY
- 3 storms no more than a dusting 
- took Frank R & son's 5 hours to get there, I was called and got there frist. snow was melted by the time I got there. SALT ONLY contracts right. Frank & the boy's sanded the lot
- the got replaced LOL **** CANNED before he ever needed to drop a blade GOOD work.
more updates to follow 3-6 storm today


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## SteveR

I think frank is the lucky one in the deal He isnt working for free


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## snowprice

hope the guys that took walmarts for $15,000 to $20,000 for the season are in the blizzard in IL WIS and MIN


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## kickin'a

UPDATE!!

New contractor left 2 piles in parking lot right in the center up front between the doors and then left, staff was out taking pitures so I thought I had to also!!! LOL out of 6 loading docks one is cleaned out! Guess WalMart is getting what they paid for, I love it


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## dodge2500

The Wal Mart in our area had 2 salt trucks there this morning and have two Case backhoes sitting on site with a site trailer and 14' Arctic Pushers. The Salt trucks were Ford Superdutys with western ultramount plows and tornado salters. I was shocked to see such nice stuff servicing this Wal Mart at the prices everyone talks about on here....


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## iceyman

kickin'a;898011 said:


> UPDATE!!
> 
> New contractor left 2 piles in parking lot right in the center up front between the doors and then left, staff was out taking pitures so I thought I had to also!!! LOL out of 6 loading docks one is cleaned out! Guess WalMart is getting what they paid for, I love it


so whers the pic??????


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## concrete

walmart is looking, the way i under stand coming from home office they have not found any one yet


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## Tiflawn

*Got it back*

I just got a call from the Walmart we plowed for the last few years. They have relieved USM and their sub contractor and have hired us back. Our equipment is on site as I type. That didn't take long. wesport


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## Superior L & L

Tiflawn;901175 said:


> I just got a call from the Walmart we plowed for the last few years. They have relieved USM and their sub contractor and have hired us back. Our equipment is on site as I type. That didn't take long. wesport


wesportpayuppayup


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## Matson Snow

Tiflawn;901175 said:


> I just got a call from the Walmart we plowed for the last few years. They have relieved USM and their sub contractor and have hired us back. Our equipment is on site as I type. That didn't take long. wesport


At the price you plowed it for last year???payup


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## Tiflawn

Not in a snowballs chance in my parking lot.


Have a great winter and remember when you walk in the snow and leave a funny trail you are probably a low baller


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## lawnproslawncar

tiflawn;901291 said:


> not in a snowballs chance in my parking lot.
> 
> have a great winter and remember when you walk in the snow and leave a funny trail you are probably a low baller


good for you!


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## PowerWagon

kickin'a;898011 said:


> UPDATE!!
> 
> New contractor left 2 piles in parking lot right in the center up front between the doors and then left, staff was out taking pitures so I thought I had to also!!! LOL out of 6 loading docks one is cleaned out! Guess WalMart is getting what they paid for, I love it


Take a Picture of that!! want see it.. xysport


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## 2COR517

PowerWagon;902541 said:


> Take a Picture of that!! want see it.. xysport


You don't really believe that do you?


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## mcdon230185

*Usm*

USM was awarded Wal-Marts and they do have the work. However, they are terrible about paying. I just terminated my contract with them because they are terrible about paying. I highly suggest to sign up with DENTCO, they are an excellent company.


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## jt5019

$20K tractor stolen from Wal-Mart
CROMWELL — A nearly $20,000 tractor used to clear snow from the Wal-Mart parking lot on Berlin Road has gone missing, and the police are asking for the public’s help in locating it.

And this was no harmless joyride, police said. Officer William Kogut said whoever took the John Deere tractor “needed a trailer to remove it.”

Kogut identified the tractor as a John Deere 1445 tractor with a snow-blower attachment. It is owned by a Newington firm that works for Wal-Mart on a contract basis, he said.

Kogut said the tractor, with the classic John Deere green with yellow trim, was reported missing Friday morning. But, he said, it may have gone missing as long ago as Jan. 9.

“The last time we know it was seen was at 7 p.m. on Saturday, the 9th,” he said.

An advisory has been sent to other law-enforcement agencies in the state, Police Chief Anthony J. Salvatore said.

However, Kogut asked anyone who saw the tractor being removed from Wal-Mart or who otherwise might have information about the theft, to please contact him at (860) 635-2256, ext. 81.


The company that is plowing this Walmart had this tractor and a large John Deere loader with a push box on site. It sucks that someone would steal the tractor it looked like it was almost brand new.


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## GLLLC

jt5019;962856 said:


> $20K tractor stolen from Wal-Mart
> CROMWELL - A nearly $20,000 tractor used to clear snow from the Wal-Mart parking lot on Berlin Road has gone missing, and the police are asking for the public's help in locating it.
> 
> And this was no harmless joyride, police said. Officer William Kogut said whoever took the John Deere tractor "needed a trailer to remove it."
> 
> Kogut identified the tractor as a John Deere 1445 tractor with a snow-blower attachment. It is owned by a Newington firm that works for Wal-Mart on a contract basis, he said.
> 
> Kogut said the tractor, with the classic John Deere green with yellow trim, was reported missing Friday morning. But, he said, it may have gone missing as long ago as Jan. 9.
> 
> "The last time we know it was seen was at 7 p.m. on Saturday, the 9th," he said.
> 
> An advisory has been sent to other law-enforcement agencies in the state, Police Chief Anthony J. Salvatore said.
> 
> However, Kogut asked anyone who saw the tractor being removed from Wal-Mart or who otherwise might have information about the theft, to please contact him at (860) 635-2256, ext. 81.
> 
> The company that is plowing this Walmart had this tractor and a large John Deere loader with a push box on site. It sucks that someone would steal the tractor it looked like it was almost brand new.


Yeah, it was my John Deere. This really sucks. Now we're gonna have to do all those walks with snow blowers. We went to the news with this story. If anyone knows or has seen anything, please let me know. The other part that sucks is John Deere 1445's arent a dime a dozen, so its not like we can find a used one for this season. Thanks for posting!


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## ColumbiaLand

That really sucks man that some scum bag took your tractor. I'm sure you have already looked into this but did you guys look into walmart's camera system?If if was parked somewhere around the store they are bound to have a camera there. Out of all big box stores they have the most cameras outside especially around the parking lots and behind the stores. They don't miss anything. Good luck and I hope you get them.
Thieves should be burned at the steak!!!:yow!::yow!:


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## dlcs

GLLLC;963757 said:


> Yeah, it was my John Deere. This really sucks. Now we're gonna have to do all those walks with snow blowers. We went to the news with this story. If anyone knows or has seen anything, please let me know. The other part that sucks is John Deere 1445's arent a dime a dozen, so its not like we can find a used one for this season. Thanks for posting!


Oh man, that sucks. Nothing worse than stealing a man's tools. Check Machine Finder.com, might be some on there for sale. Good luck.


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## snocrete

GLLLC;963757 said:


> Yeah, it was my John Deere. This really sucks. Now we're gonna have to do all those walks with snow blowers. We went to the news with this story. If anyone knows or has seen anything, please let me know. The other part that sucks is John Deere 1445's arent a dime a dozen, so its not like we can find a used one for this season. Thanks for posting!


sorry to hear that, hopefully they catch the bastards that did it. For the machine, I wouldn't get to hopeful on getting it back in one piece. My dad had a brand new (about 50hrs)Bobcat T300 stolen off a job a few years ago, and in doing research about this kind of thing, I found that most of the organized machinery thieves have the machine back to where their garage is and begin breaking it down into pieces within 24hrs. There has been a huge increase in machinery theft since the early 2000's.

P.S. The next machine my dad bought was equiped with keyless start & gps tracking device.....I had already done this with the machine I had at the time, and suggested it to him. This also lowers your insurance a little bit. Good luck.


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