# Tractor vs wheel loader for steep gravel road



## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

i plow a private road that’s about 2 miles or so. It has one long, fairly steep hill that can be a problem at times. When things get icy it’s a disaster. I pretty much wrecked one truck on it 5 or 6 years ago. At some point there’s going to be another house going in farther up the road. I don’t currently plow that last stretch (1/2 mile) because there’s nothing up there. Anyway, there’s no way I’m going near this new part with a truck. This part is switchbacks, wooden guard rails, and still steep in spite of the switchbacks. It’s going to be a dedicated machine to sit there for the winter with tire chains on all 4 wheels and a 10-12 foot plow. The natural choice is a good size tractor but the problem is I don’t have much other use for a large tractor. A 3-4 yard wheel loader is something I could use year around. Obviously more expensive machine, and the chains for them are a lot more expensive but aside from the up front cost, I’m wondering how a wheel loader would work, essentially plowing a gravel ski slope. Is the extra weight of the wheel loader enough to overcome the fact that it has bigger floatation tires? I want something that with dig through a layer of ice into the gravel road surface


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

If you ran a tractor, could you run a drop spreader In back and drop sand/ aggregate on the steep part?
Around here you can rent/ lease both loaders and tractors instead of buying one, that’d be something to consider. But if you do buy, you could also lease/ rent either to someone else for the off season.


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## wishfull (Nov 22, 2017)

Wheel loaders without chains in a situation such as you describe are not your answer. A MFWD Ag tractor with radial ag type tires work extremely well for us without chains in all situations even those similar to yours. We use them year around for loading amongst other things. That road must pay awful good for you to look at this kind of expense.


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## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

We don’t get nearly enough dependable snowfall here to safely rent or lease. I’m south of Albany. The pto spreader is an advantage. The wheel loader still has more potential for me for excavation work. I could find uses for the tractor year around just not as many. I would get chains either way. Just don’t want to slide in a 15 ton wheel loader. I’m not sure if ground pressure is too low. Nobody has started building on the upper lot so I have plenty time to figure it out


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Just out of curiosity,whats the budget for a job like that to have dedicated loader or tractor. 20 - 30 K ?


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## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

Depending on our highly variable snowfall $1000-5000 month. Again this is a dedicated machine for 4 months only. Aiming to use it the rest of the year a lot more than I would use it in the winter. This is why I’m hoping to hear favorable opinions of the wheel loader because I could definitely use a 3-4 yard loader.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

It sounds like you’re going to hear what you want to hear because you want a loader, but I’ve been in tractors and I’ve been in loaders in slippery and reasonably steep conditions and I’d take the tractor every day of the week.


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## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

If that were the case I don’t think I would admit that I’m hoping to hear good things about the loader. It is what it is. So far all I’ve heard about loaders is without chains. So if we’re talking tires I would expect a tractor to be a lot better.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Would you be putting down sand or aggragate on the steep part(s)


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## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

I plow sand and salt every storm 1 inch or more


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## White_Gold11 (Jan 4, 2016)

Loader with snow tires takes a lot to slip and slid. much better than a tractor with Ag bar tires I know because we use both..


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Four Seasons said:


> Depending on our highly variable snowfall $1000-5000 month. Again this is a dedicated machine for 4 months only. Aiming to use it the rest of the year a lot more than I would use it in the winter. This is why I'm hoping to hear favorable opinions of the wheel loader because I could definitely use a 3-4 yard loader.


 Get the loader.I've never seen a tractor in my neck of the woods but if you have use for it the rest of the year its a no brainer. 3-4 yd loader is getting up there in size though.30-40 k. Are you moving it yourself ? Paying to move?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

White_Gold11 said:


> Loader with snow tires takes a lot to slip and slid. much better than a tractor with Ag bar tires I know because we use both..


Snow tires are going to be next to worthless in any summer (dirt work/material handling) application so unless he's got the ability/desire to swap tires that's not a real world comparison, whereas a tractor could have snow tires and no need to swap.


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## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

It’s 8 or 9 miles of side roads from my yard so either way I can drive it to the job. Thanks for all the responses. I looked at some loader snow tires prices. Yikes!


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

You're going to spend 10K on snow tires for a loader,plus rims or labor to switch them out for dirt work. Chains 1500$ or so depending on size. Gravel road = cheaper chains.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Missed your last post,roading it to job, different deal.30-45 minutes with chains,don't think so!


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## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

Yeah I’d put the chains on at the job after the drive for sure.


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## White_Gold11 (Jan 4, 2016)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Snow tires are going to be next to worthless in any summer (dirt work/material handling) application so unless he's got the ability/desire to swap tires that's not a real world comparison, whereas a tractor could have snow tires and no need to swap.


Huh? Tractor snow tires would also be a softer compound and prone to damage on the summer..


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

White_Gold11 said:


> Huh? Tractor snow tires would also be a softer compound and prone to damage on the summer..


See below...


Four Seasons said:


> The natural choice is a good size tractor but the problem is I don't have much other use for a large tractor. A 3-4 yard wheel loader is something I could use year round


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

A 3-4yd wheel loader with a 10-12' plow is a pretty good size piece of equipment and got the impression the road is pretty narrow with several switchbacks in the upper end of it. Based on that assumption I would have to think the rig would be to big, plus they're pretty tall and trees could be an issue too. I also think a 85-100hp Ag tractor with a plow could be to big.
Again making an assumption based on how the job was described, I would used a short bed mid 80's pickup that was modified a bit.
Modifications would include:
Big Block motor
Dana 60 4:38 gears with a air locker in front
Dana 60 4:38 gears or Corp 14bolt with air locker in the rear
235/85/16 winter rated M/S tires with chains on all four
Steel flat bed with plenty of weight
9' V plow 
Less money to put out, lower maintenance and very maneuverable. Plus if you needed to be pulled back on the road recovery cost are much cheaper and you wouldn't have wait for a rig big enough to pull a wheel loader or ag tractor. 

Or a Walter with 100% traction.......


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Does the OP know you can put a loader on an AG tractor?


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> It sounds like you're going to hear what you want to hear because you want a loader, but I've been in tractors and I've been in loaders in slippery and reasonably steep conditions and I'd take the tractor every day of the week.


This is my feeling as well

My first reaction is just don't do it 
I used to to driveways in the sticks of New England (lots of them) 
The dark switch back ones that are half a mile long through the woods... until I slid off , literally through the woods 
I had to be doing 20-25 mph backwards off road 
Momentum carried me back onto a lower part of the driveway 
Miracle to say the least I didn't wrap around a 100 year old maple 
I still don't know exactly how that all played out except my step son and I looked at each other like...."woah"
That was my last year for driveways

Op already wrecked a truck on it?
Have you ever slid backwards in a front end loader?
Your ride in the truck is nothing compared to that 
Not to mention you're risking far more expensive equipment.

If you want a loader go for it.
Find some nice flat safe lots to use it on... or sub yourself out to someone who has them already.

Lease the tractor 
Set the price where I needs to be with guaranteed payment wether it snows or not... and if they say no?
Let some other guy wreck a truck on that.
There's better ways to validate getting a loader you can use year round than trying to scale ice roads with it.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

It's a no brainier to use a loader if your in the excavation business. I have little to no experience with ag tractors. All is I know is this, I'm a retired operator and still involved in excavation etc. I never seen a ag tractor on any site or been asked to run one. This don't mean they won't move snow lots of guys use them. My opinion is based on what you do in the summer months.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

FredG said:


> It's a no brainier to use a loader if your in the excavation business. I have little to no experience with ag tractors. All is I know is this, I'm a retired operator and still involved in excavation etc. I never seen a ag tractor on any site or been asked to run one. This don't mean they won't move snow lots of guys use them. My opinion is based on what you do in the summer months.


Yea , but this is steep incline/switch back stuff 
Risk vs reward doesn't sound like it's there


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

tpendagast said:


> Yea , but this is steep incline/switch back stuff
> Risk vs reward doesn't sound like it's there


 He said he's plowing every inch and it gets salt. Yes the loader will slide with no ? I think he could make it work with the loader and a good set of chains. Here in NY Hills equals chains. If he don't loose traction he should be okay. I'm still basing my opinion on the excavation work the OP does in the summer months.

If the OP has use for a ag tractor in the summer months that should work too. Again I have no experience with Ag tractors except for farm work, never used one in snow. Maybe a 6 wheel truck with chains and locking differential. My 2674 loaded with chain slappers is hard to get stuck.

I would like to see some pics maybe I change my mind.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

FredG said:


> He said he's plowing every inch and it gets salt. Yes the loader will slide with no ? I think he could make it work with the loader and a good set of chains. Here in NY Hills equals chains. If he don't loose traction he should be okay. I'm still basing my opinion on the excavation work the OP does in the summer months.
> 
> If the OP has use for a ag tractor in the summer months that should work too. Again I have no experience with Ag tractors except for farm work, never used one in snow. Maybe a 6 wheel truck with chains and locking differential. My 2674 loaded with chain slappers is hard to get stuck.
> 
> I would like to see some pics maybe I change my mind.


Yes fiscally the investment in the loader makes sense for his year round line of work.. I agree.


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## CreativeEarth (Feb 1, 2009)

I run 2 Kubota TLBs for a bunch of driveways I have in a community like that. One is a M59 with vinyl cab,4wd, vbar tire chains on the rear and a 10ft plow. The other is a L39 with vinyl cab 4wd, vbar tire chains on the rear and a 9ft plow. They do really well especially when there are icey conditions. The cabs stay warm with no heater. Easy to get unstuck with the hoe and a chain if needed. I do use them all year long for other work though.
Maybe rent a loader in the warmer weather and drive it on the road you want to plow with it so you can see what it would be like.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Either one is going to suck without snow tyres and\or chains. 

Sounds like the money is pretty good and with the need for a loader in the summer, it seems like a no brainer. Yes, it's going to be an investment, but a worthwhile one. 

I would never use an ag tractor's loader to plow with. JMO

Not really sure how bad Nokians are in the dirt either. Can't imagine they're that bad. The Michelins on my 244 work as good as can with a smaller HP\weight loader. They don't load up with mud, the blocks are spaced pretty well to prevent this and they clean themselves very well.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Have only ran a loader once with chains and I can say I sure would not want to road 8-9 miles with chains and surely don't want to be taking the chains on and off. Back then we only used the loader to blow holes in the windrows for the tri-axle plow trucks and push the piles back. With chains it was unstoppable-ish. Just remember the old saying. Getting stuck without chains is not that big of a deal, getting stuck with chains and you are F'd.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kimber750 said:


> Getting stuck without chains is not that big of a deal, getting stuck with chains and you are F'd.


I recall seeing a pic of a guy with a truckload of firewood chained up and stuck...although his 4WD wasn't working. It was pretty funny. At least @BUFF and I thought so.


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## boutch (Aug 3, 2015)

Just to chim in. I got Nokian an my kubota and i do yard work with it in the summer. They are as good if not better the R4 in dirt and mud but I wouldn't want to pull a plough with them in wet soil.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Salting gravel.....how's that working?

I'm assuming a wet mess


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## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

1olddogtwo said:


> Salting gravel.....how's that working?
> 
> I'm assuming a wet mess


Never heard that before. Towns have been putting sand salt mix on gravel for 100 years. We don't have all pavement, concrete, curbs, and street lights here... you probably wouldn't like it


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

One of my shop lots is about 4 acres/ about half is stone....if they salt it, it never really gets hard and gets rutted up from heavy loads.

It one thing to run vehicles, another to run heavy loads over it.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Four Seasons said:


> Never heard that before. Towns have been putting sand salt mix on gravel for 100 years. We don't have all pavement, concrete, curbs, and street lights here... you probably wouldn't like it


I've got 5 acres out in the country.,...go off the road... you in a ditch and we have some stone roads.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Four Seasons said:


> Never heard that before. Towns have been putting sand salt mix on gravel for 100 years. We don't have all pavement, concrete, curbs, and street lights here... you probably wouldn't like it


I know I wouldn't like it, the Catskill mountains are in upstate New York, and I'm afraid of Bigfoot and crazy people...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I know I wouldn't like it, the Catskill mountains are in upstate New York, and I'm afraid of Bigfoot and crazy people...


 Sorry to disappoint you. The squatch is in Colorado.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

FredG said:


> Sorry to disappoint you. The squatch is in Colorado.


Sorry to disappoint you. The squatch is on Plowsite, and lives in Colorado.

Fixed it for ya!!


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## 160SR (Oct 1, 2014)

What about an older 4 wheel grader, most of them have plow frames on the front already. Load the tires and run chains on all 4, doubt it will lose traction if your plowing every inch or so. You can use the moldboard to scrape snow pack and might save on sand.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Oskosh
FWD
Or the like

Why do you need to plow the road if/when Somone buys a place further up the road?

Is this a sub- division?
And how long does it take you to plow your drive?
Who pays you to plow the”road”?

No one around here uses salt on dirt or gravel roads.
They use cinders if anything .


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## wishfull (Nov 22, 2017)

Use Ag tractors with loaders and radial ag tires to plow snow and nothing else. They work very well and from our experience our operators out work skid steers the majority of the time and out do every wheel loader and backhoe unit in our area. Yes we have good operators. If your sand/salt ratio is wrong and you apply to much salt you can kiss your gravel road goodbye. No one in our neck of the woods uses anything else but small crush for gravel applications.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

FredG said:


> It's a no brainier to use a loader if your in the excavation business. I have little to no experience with ag tractors. All is I know is this, I'm a retired operator and still involved in excavation etc. I never seen a ag tractor on any site or been asked to run one. This don't mean they won't move snow lots of guys use them. My opinion is based on what you do in the summer months.


Here we use Ag tractors with dirt pans for site work


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## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

m_ice said:


> Here we use Ag tractors with dirt pans for site work


Do they still make dirt pans. I've only ever seen one around here and it has a tree growing through it.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

m_ice said:


> Here we use Ag tractors with dirt pans for site work


 You loading trucks with dirt pans?


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

FredG said:


> You loading trucks with dirt pans?


If they let me and it's small enough


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Four Seasons said:


> Do they still make dirt pans. I've only ever seen one around here and it has a tree growing through it.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

m_ice said:


> View attachment 188173


There's a couple excavators around here that use them as well.

Really don't see the old "earth movers" any more.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> There's a couple excavators around here that use them as well.
> 
> Really don't see the old "earth movers" any more.


It all boils down to ROI....


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

m_ice said:


> View attachment 188173


 I will admit if I had to use a pan I would rather be in that tractor than a motorized pan. Those things are brutalized. Be like Mike Tyson beating on your kidneys.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> It all boils down to ROI....


Especially in low dirt areas...


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Either one is going to suck without snow tyres and\or chains.
> 
> Sounds like the money is pretty good and with the need for a loader in the summer, it seems like a no brainer. Yes, it's going to be an investment, but a worthwhile one.
> 
> ...


Michelin's in ak at least are very popular 
But it's colder here all the time (rarely gets above 80 even in the summer) 
But guys don't seem to damage them with light use in the summer... hardcore excavation could be an entirely different story 
The mines up here run different tires, but I don't know what they are.

IMO I would still use chains from the description. 
But... maybe a snow blower would work better?
You're not pushing anything more than the equipment and don't have the added resistance for slip n slide?


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