# Property damage by HOA plow company



## newhomeowner13 (Apr 27, 2017)

Hello, this seems to the be the correct forum to ask questions about how to handle a problem with a private plowing company... sorry if I'm in this is in the wrong place and please bear with the explanation. 

This plow company is contracted to plow my neighborhood and are not a city operation. The last storm we had was pretty heavy and the plow company plowed the road where my house is along the edge (we are the last house in the row). They smashed a great deal of the snow all up against the entire length of my home that runs along the road and we specially asked they not do that. 

Then it took a week for them to start removing the piles and piles shoved up against the house and when they did it, I was home sick. About 30 minutes in, I heard horrible, loud scraping sounds like they were shoveling the side of the house and not the snow. Because I was sick I couldn't go running outside to see what was happening and when I looked out the window the person had left. 

A couple hours later my husband came home and found two large scrapes/gouges along the side of my house plus scrapes and scuff marks. 

When the neighborhood association called to discuss it, the owner of the plow company basically called us liars and then he left a nasty voicemail for my husband saying again, in not so many words, that we were lying and then said he would "still fix it, maybe not tomorrow or next week or next month" but it would allegedly be fixed someday. 

At this point, I've waited 3 weeks and haven't heard anything at all and I understand that the plowing companies have tons of work even when the snow is gone but I'm not sure how to deal with this outside of filing a police report and sending a letter from my lawyer when all I want is this company to fix their mistake and repair the damages they made to my house. 

I have photos and the text messages I was sending my husband when the damage was happening and one of my neighbors will be making a statement. 

The damage literally couldn't be caused by anything or anyone else and there aren't any other plow companies working the neighborhood and I know this company is aggressively bidding to get a contract in my neighborhood because they just put up 3 dozen houses and two apartment buildings. 

How can this company just call us liars and not repair the damage they did?


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## newhomeowner13 (Apr 27, 2017)

Some photos


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

I'd suggest turning the claim into your homeowners insurance and let them deal with it. 

It doesn't look that major though; just replace a piece of siding (unless the boards behind it were damaged).


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I'd be pissed if someone pushed snow up against my house like that. Screw using your home insurance the plow company is at fault.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

That plow company does very, SUB PAR work. But you should have been outside taking pictures after it snowed, and when you heard the noise. The police should have been called when he hit the house. Now it is a civil matter. Call your insurance company.


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

Yep, what Randall and Seville said. Sick your Homeowners on them. And yeah, that plow job is HOT GARBAGE.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Not much lawn eh


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Why isn't your HOA doing anything about it? Isn't that what you pay fees for?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

This is an issue the HOA board needs to handle. You shouldn't have to have any direct contact with the contractor. That's why you pay HOA fees, and there is a board of directors for the HOA. 

And that's one ****ty hack plow job.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

If it was me, I'd be getting appointed to that board. And I'd be sending that POS down the road for good.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Not sure how the plow company is trying to deny causing that. Not to mention snow shouldn't have been stacked there to begin with. You're lucky more damage wasn't done.

I would also suggest trying to make them hire an actual contractor to do the repairs. You don't want them doing it for 2 reasons, they are pissed and you don't want "angry work" just slapped together, and they are probably not professionals in siding repair. Like said above, talk with your insurance agent and see what they suggest doing about it.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

I dont know whats worse, the HOA's design/layout for squeezing one more house in 6" from the street, the hack plow contractor for hitting the house or someone that buys a house thats 6" from the street and then dont know what to do when it gets hit.


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## newhomeowner13 (Apr 27, 2017)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I dont know whats worse, the HOA's design/layout for squeezing one more house in 6" from the street, the hack plow contractor for hitting the house or someone that buys a house thats 6" from the street and then dont know what to do when it gets hit.


Maybe you should ponder why you make useless posts?


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## newhomeowner13 (Apr 27, 2017)

Thanks for all the reasonable and relevant replies. 

The HOA is being quite rude about it as well so yes, I have to prepare a statement for the next meeting to address this incident with the entire neighborhood as well as the HOA's reticence to "confront" a contractor like this. 

It was not us that prompted the rude phone call by the company manager/owner and they had already been told not to pile the snow that way. 

Ours is not the only house on the end of a lane and no other houses on the ends had snow piled like this, just ours.


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## newhomeowner13 (Apr 27, 2017)

Randall Ave said:


> That plow company does very, SUB PAR work. But you should have been outside taking pictures after it snowed, and when you heard the noise. The police should have been called when he hit the house. Now it is a civil matter. Call your insurance company.


The reason I wasn't outside like a bullet is that I wasn't just ill, I'm a debillitated sick and was being sick from medication, my husband was at work.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Although it looks minor I can tell you it isn't as simple as slapping up another stip of siding, the colour will stand out. the HOA should step in and get involved, we can all knock the bad practise of piling against buildings but the true teller of a bad contractor is how they react when criticized, and how they step up to fix the problem.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

If the HOA is being difficult to deal with, turn it into your homeowner's insurance as has already been suggested, and tell them the full story every time you talk to them. They'll get your house fixed, and then go after the responsible party(ies) to get repaid. 

A former insurance company we were with was ruthless about going after anyone they could to get money back. I.e., mower catches on fire, they went after the manufacturer, the distributor, the dealer, and both authorized dealers that they could prove did warranty work on said mower. Throw **** at the wall and see how much sticks.


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## prezek (Dec 16, 2010)

One of my new guys hit a customers siding that was down to the ground while mowing/trimming. Several pieces damaged. Not the last row. It was a few hundred in labor. Contractor bought white siding and had sherwin Williams match the paint color. Looks great.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

I plow for several HOA's. As the contractor I only report to the property manager that handles the HOA. Many HOA's use property managers to handle plowing,landscaping, street maintenance etc. I would suggest that you contact the management company directly. HOA boards are horrible to deal with and most of the time incompetent. The Property manager would be on me like flies on manure if I ever did something like this. I think you would get much better results dealing with them. What should happen is the property manager should hire a qualified contractor to fix the siding and then bill/withhold payment to the snow contractor for the cost of repairs which should be about $500 for that piece of siding.

You should also send a notarized, certified letter to the HOA putting them on notice that you will come after them WHEN you begin to have problems with the foundation from their contractor piling snow against the house and the subsequent erosion of the foundation and fill. There is a reason people have gutters and code requires grade to be away from the foundation. Keep documenting with pictures every time snow gets stacked there because you will end up with foundation problems and siding/mold problems from water penetration behind the siding.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Fixing the siding is easy enough. Not a big deal. But as was stated earlier, due to sun and fading, the new piece(s) will not match the existing siding. You could try to have it painted, but that will sometimes get you pretty poor results. That snow should NEVER be stacked up against a house like that whether you told them not to or not. That's just piss poor operating. There have been many good suggestions above. I wish you luck in getting this sorted out.


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## prezek (Dec 16, 2010)

I agree, but there is no way they would residing the entire house. I along with my customer were very pleasantly surprised how well my contractor was able to match the color. House was probably 25 years old. It was a yellowish color siding.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

newhomeowner13 said:


> Maybe you should ponder why you make useless posts?


He does have a couple valid points, like it or not.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

OK, there's several things here.

1) We don't know how old the house is, or what direction it is facing. Maybe the siding is 2 years old and hasn't faded. Maybe it's 10 years old and faces north and hasn't faded. Lots of assumptions being made on how much it has faded and whether it would be difficult to match up.
2) Why is the HOA giving you grief? It's as obvious as the nose on your face that the plow jockey caused the damage. 
3) Does the HOA contract with a property manager or do they do their own management?
4) If that little bit of water content damages a foundation or causes erosion along the foundation, you have far bigger things to worry aboot than some damaged siding. 

One other question, I assume you own the condo\house? Things have changed so much with condo ownership over the past years, this might be a homeowner responsibility or it could be the HOA's responsibility. My FIL the HOA\condo association is responsible for major exterior items--roofs, siding--but almost everything interior is his responsibility. Almost. 

Personally, I'd still stick with the HOA but also let me insurance agent know what's going on just in case you have to file a claim.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ktfbgb said:


> You should also send a notarized, certified letter to the HOA putting them on notice that you will come after them WHEN you begin to have problems with the foundation from their contractor piling snow against the house and the subsequent erosion of the foundation and fill. There is a reason people have gutters and code requires grade to be away from the foundation. Keep documenting with pictures every time snow gets stacked there because you will end up with foundation problems and siding/mold problems from water penetration behind the siding.


You make it sound like there are very strict building codes oot there, but this little bit of snow should in no way cause foundation damage.

Around here, a lot of builders don't install gutters to keep the initial price low, and the homeowner adds them shortly.

And while codes require a lot of things, follow-up inspections leave a lot to be desired. As does the real world of settling soil and cheap excavators.

If some snow pushed or falling against siding is going to cause mold....then with the rain we get and humidity we have, I'm guessing 90% of the houses in my area have mold. But they don't.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

newhomeowner13 said:


> Maybe you should ponder why you make useless posts?


The new guy comes in swinging


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

iceyman said:


> The new guy comes in swinging


It was funny.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You make it sound like there are very strict building codes oot there, but this little bit of snow should in no way cause foundation damage.
> 
> Around here, a lot of builders don't install gutters to keep the initial price low, and the homeowner adds them shortly.
> 
> ...


No not really strict. But negative slope is required to try and keep water off the foundation. Around here, and a lot of other parts of the country, these condo associations are slapped up quick, and a lot of steps "missed" when the inspector does not feel like checking every one on the list that day. He will come out, check the first one, and drive by the others if it's the same builder. If they all "look" like the first one from the car, he'll sign off on all of them.

If that HOA let's contractors stack snow against that house for the next 5-10 years, yes there is going to be problems with the stem swall. The melt off will get between the crack where that asphalt meets the foundation, and saturate the ground against the stem wall. Eventually allowing frost to heave it some causing settling cracks, and if on a slab, it will crack the slab. Making eventual replacement of flooring a much more expensive proposition if they go with anything other than carpet. I see this all the time. And you are correct. Code does not require gutters, so a lot of builders skip them. I do a lot of work on houses that are 5-10 years old that are having the problems described above because they didn't have gutters. Does the same thing as melting snow.

I install a lot of Hardi Plank siding, which is what the customer above has. Or some other brand of cement siding, but it's all the same. Trust me, it can not handle any amount of water. If it's not sealed and gets wet, it disintegrates. Think bottom edges close to the ground where the painters didn't or couldn't get their gun into a position to paint the bottom lip of each piece. Also per Hardi, the butt joints do not need to be caulked if step flashing is used on every joint. The picture clearly shows a open butt joint. I promise you the contractor didn't seal those butt joint edges with paint prior to installing. So any water sitting against that siding is going to disintegrate it. I'm on my way this morning to replace some Hardi that is 5 years old and completely disintrigated due to a leaking gutter end. It's all trash from the gutter to the ground.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

99% sure that's vinyl siding.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

You could be right. But, I'm pretty sure that's fiber cement. The break charastics look just like it. And look at the open butt joint at the bottom of the pic. I haven't seen a vinyl system that's a sigle plank lap like that before.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

ktfbgb said:


> You could be right. But, I'm pretty sure that's fiber cement. The break charastics look just like it. And look at the open butt joint at the bottom of the pic. I haven't seen a vinyl system that's a sigle plank lap like that before.


I don't think it's vinyl either; the joint that shows up towards the bottom looks straight vs a vinyl overlap. Plus....I did kind of the same thing to my own exterior vinyl sided garage the last storm we had about a month ago and the vinyl tearing looks different.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I thought it was vinyl too until you guys pointed that stuff out...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'vebeen 99% wrong before.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

In any case, I think everyone agrees that the snow contractor is a dirt bag, and that this should have been taken of by now. Or at least some communication about a scheduled date to fix it.Thumbs Up


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

You guys must have never broken vinyl in the cold before. It shatters. We have hit it with lumber before and had worse damage than this. A piece of equipment would look like you took a wrecking ball to it. For what it's worth (Not much at all), I second the hardi board conclusion. Either way it needs fixed.

I am also a little curious if there was damage to the sheet rock on the other side? If so I would guess it did some damage to the wall stud. Might be worth looking at when The siding is off assuming there isn't tyvex behind the siding. I didn't see any in the hole, but that's not saying much.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

It's Hardie Board siding..Color match should not be a problem...Since one of their claims to fame is no fading...As for Foundation Mold problems...Unless there has been an ongoing issue...That amont of snow is a non issue


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Finaly got on a computer instead of my phone. OP, what is the location? I.m on the town board, never would the pavement go up to the building here like that. But still, the snow should not have been put there.


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

This is where I bumped into my garage wall with the skidsteer the last storm we had.....the magic of duct tape.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Randall Ave said:


> never would the pavement go up to the building here like that.


Even within a townhome or apartment community?

There are tons of them here in those style community's out here. Pavement everywhere pavement can be placed. The locations to leave snow were not thought about by architectural firm or engineer when plans were drawn. Typically had to plow with a push box on skid loader and load and hall out same day.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

seville009 said:


> View attachment 172060
> This is where I bumped into my garage wall with the skidsteer the last storm we had.....the magic of duct tape.


That's a good match. Can't even tell where the damage was Thumbs Up


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Here usually parking lot. Curb lines. Then a grass area. Then sidewalk to building


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

seville009 said:


> View attachment 172060
> This is where I bumped into my garage wall with the skidsteer the last storm we had.....the magic of duct tape.


What damage?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

The better ? is how could them large froze clumps of snow not cause damage. Not so much water damage but possible. In my City if you put snow on someone else property it only takes a call to the City and they will give you 48hrs to move it or they will and bill your Company. 

The HOA should handle the whole situation, They hired him, How do you know they did there homework and even checked the contractor out and just took the low bid. Should of had reference from Clients he serviced with similar snow jobs. Sure the contractor is going to call you a liar if not honest but the pics show him he could be at fault and should handle it or don't stack snow in such a ridiculous spot. Clearly your HOA board is not educated on property management at least snow.

Yes you should of called the Cops this is property damage. Good Luck


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