# urgent no start powerstroke...



## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

Ok on my superduty with 36272 miles on it (272 miles out of bumper to bumper) 2 miles of that was towing to work...

Died about 1/4 mile from my house in 25 degree weather.

Towed (myself) to work, plugged in, on a battery charger, because I have been trying to start it for the last three days.

Added diesel 911 (stanadyne) to tank, and filter. Replaced filter. Drained filter repeatedly. 40 degree weather today. Block heater works. Changed glow plug relay. Fuel pump fills filter. All PCM fuses and such are good. 

Still will not start. I am lost and PISSED what else could it be. I live 40 miles from any dealer so a tow is going to be 150-200. Roadside assistance won't tow me for free because I am over 36k. WTF. ANYTHING else I should check???


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

I beleive it wont start with out oil pressure. The oil pressure builds as it cranks and that is what primes the injector pump. 
Well even tho its a could be a pain, it saves the engine from serious damage. The engine is still covered by a 100K 5 yr warranty, so aside from the tow and 100.00 deductable, the repair will be covered.
Dino


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## paul soccodato (Nov 9, 2002)

i would disconnect the glow plugs, and give it a shot of ether to see if it fires up. those engines wont run without oil pressure (oil pressure fires the injectors). check the oil, and try the ether, see if it fires up.make sure the fuel system is primed


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## SatZ28 (Nov 2, 2002)

I know that I've used ether in the past for firing up diesels, but I would hesitate to use ether. Ford cautions against the use of ether, and as Plowking indicates there is a 100K warranty on the PSD. Should any damage occur from the use of ether, all bets may be off on repairs under the 100K warranty.


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## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

I am kinda leary of the ether thing to. Oil pressure on guage increases if I keep the motor cranking. I am not sure how to check the high pressure pump for the injectors. Oil level is good.

I also don't think it is the cam position sensor (another common problem) as my tach stays steady under cranking.

A) I am pissed because I am losing my truck for at least 4-5 days

B) 272 @#@#*# miles past bumper to bumper

C) I have NEVER been stranded by a vehicle besides this one. 3k miles drain plug falls out of oil pan and THANK GOD the injectors won't fire. 24k fuel filter gelled, 36k this....


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## 99SDPSD (Jan 20, 2001)

Try doing a search at http://www.thedieselstop.com it is the new name of the old (ford-diesel.com site. Lots of Powerstroke info there.


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## SatZ28 (Nov 2, 2002)

Or try this website http://www.ford-trucks.com/ There is a member that is part of the engine team at Navistar in Indianopolis. Go to the Diesel forum and post there.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2002)

Sure sounds like a CPS to me.

Did it just die, or stutter first, then die?

Greg


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## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

Won't even start now...

No Check engine light. (except on key on of course)

I don't think it is CPS because my tach registers the engine cranking and is pretty constant. 

All the info and tests I have been trying are from Thedieselstop.com.

Howard


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## Mark Erpelding (Jul 26, 2002)

I would contact the ford dealer. They have a fund which is to be used to repair vehicles that are out of warranty. Since your truck is so close to the warranty they might help you out. They did for me on a Tarus that the power stearing pump and rack went out 3000 miles after the warranty ran out. They chargeg me a deductable of $80.00 I think. The cost of the full repair was over $600.00 It is the dealers call, the first one I went to would not help me out. The second one was glad to help me out. You can also call the 800# in your owners manual it is a Ford customer service hotline they were helpful to me on the power stearing problem.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2002)

Mark,

Howard's truck is NOT out of warranty! There is a 100,000 mi warranty on the PSD engine.

Howard, I'm telling you, go get yourself a CPS. They are pretty cheap ~$50 if I remember right, and takes about 15 min. to change. If it's not it, at least you'll have a spare.

Greg


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## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

Yep it is still under warranty. The Roadside assistance think sucks though.

42 miles to the dealer, $80 hookup, $2 a mile = $164  

Howard


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## paul soccodato (Nov 9, 2002)

the reason ford (or any diesel engine maker) tells you not to use ether is because if you dont disconnect the glow plugs, it will ignite (explode) in the intake manifold, and damage the upper parts of the motor.
disconnect the glow plugs and give it a shot of ether to see if it fires, then you know where to start. diagnose the problem, dont throw parts at the truck!
before diesels were equipped with glow plugs, ether was the only way to start them in cold weather.


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## Randy Scott (Nov 6, 2000)

Just take it to the dealer for goddsake. How much time and money have you wasted so far on it? Let people that know what their doing do what they know. You'll really be pissed when you screw something up by monkeying with everything yourself. How many days and hours have you wasted on this thing so far? Probably more than that $200 tow bills worth.


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## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

Actually no I have not wasted any money... I still have spare GPR and the fuel filter, 25 bucks for the relay (everyone should have spare) and the fuel filter needed it anyways.

Come live in the mountains of Colorado and you learn to fix your own stuff. Its like my plow, the dealer is 100 miles away, do you think I would whine and cry if it broke, How the hell would I continue plowing in a storm if I was not self reliant. I am a pretty competant home mechanic. From engine swaps, welding, to restoration I have done most of everything myself.

If I had my truck towed to the dealer on Friday, the would not have looked at it till Monday or Tuesday anyways. Then I have to make the 2 hour round trip to go pick it up. What is wrong with waiting until I have determined that it is not anything that I can fix.

Howard


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## paul soccodato (Nov 9, 2002)

howard, disconnect the glow plugs and give a spritz of ether, see if it fires


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2002)

Howard,

Your tach will still work if ths CPS is bad.


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

Sounds to me like the CPS as well. Easy swap and then it should fire right up. I would give this a try.

I agree with you. Give yourself a shot at the repair before taking it into Ford.


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## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

I just need to find a willing donor/lender of CPS to try it out today (Sunday)... 


If it is, I certainly will be estatic, I probably will wait to have one Fed-EXed from the IH dealer, as I understand it the CPS is 1/2 price from them.

Another thing that I did not mention is What if it snows, I have more of chance of getting my truck out plowing than the dealer does by Monday...

Thanks for all your help..

Howard


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## Brickman (Jun 17, 2002)

Howard I know the feeling, and it sucks.

Actually the only time that I had that problem in my PS was when I FUBAR the computer. (Think REALLY STUPID, some thing that I knew better than to do.)

Good luck with getting it going. The biggest beef I got with any of the new engines is entirely tooooooooo many electronics to go bad.


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## bobcatman (Dec 9, 2002)

Not sure how many Ford dealers in your area, but I have found it very important to have a excellent working relationship for my truck and for my equipment. I have about 5 Ford dealers in my area, but I chose to get parts and service from the ones who stock 50-60 F250s, 350s etc and know the heavy pickups inside out. Have you tried calling the dealer and explaining your situation- this is your 1 truck that you depend on to make money and you parted with a large sum to buy this truck brand new.
I would think the dealer would realize your situation and give you preference over grandma's grocery-getter or the family minivan.
These PSDs are the engine of choice for ambulances, rescue vehicles, and other situations where human lives are on the line. What would a dealer do with an ambulance that died? You can bet it would be on the road ASAP. 
1 other thing- at one of my local Ford dealers, there is a service tech who sells and installs the BANKS system. He is Mr. International Diesel and can answer just about any question. Maybe throuhgh the grapevine you could find a PSD guru at one of your local dealers.

Good luck


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## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

Well it is up and running, and thank goodness it is my second plow vehicle... (Not counting the 76 restomod Bronco "vrooom 5.0" and the rockcrawling TJ on 36 swampers )

So my first thought was fuel gelling, immediatly put additives everywhere and change the fuel filter. WELL GUESS WHAT.... That NAPA fuel filter, and I have used the same part before, didn't flow fuel???!! I messed with everything, glad I did not get it towed, actual quote I got was $275 to have it towed to the closest dealer. Exchanged CPSs with friend trucks, talked to the service manager of a 40 bay service facility in Denver and Told him what I did, He said "You've done everything we would have done, It SHOULD RUN"

Well in frustration I decided to bring everything back to orginal Glow plug relay, fuel filter and CPS...

Guess what as soon as put in the dirty nasty 20k used fuel filter it fired right up... Took that $40 filter to napa..

I just glad it is over with. Everyone I spoke to at Ford was helpful, but it was going to be my dime for the tow until the truck was diagnosed and it was determined to be an engine issue. I probably saved myseld $500, lost a little sleep, but it was worth it.

Howard THANKS ALL!


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## paul soccodato (Nov 9, 2002)

hey howard, did you prime the napa fuel filter?


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## Brickman (Jun 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by paul soccodato _
> *hey howard, did you prime the napa fuel filter? *


I never do, just change the filter and start the truck. Never had any problem.


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## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

I did everything imaginable to the napa filter. Created quite a mess and made me smell more like a mechanic than a Chef.

After I got the truck running I put the Napa filter back and it would not run, took it out and put the dirty ford in and it ran fine. The Napa filter looks almost the same, and I have you used it in my other 2 powerstrokes. It just wouldn't flow fuel, BIZARRE and VERY frustrating.

Howard


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## paul soccodato (Nov 9, 2002)

im glad you fixed it, yourself


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## Mike 97 SS (Aug 11, 2002)

I have been following this thread and glad to hear you got it running. When you say it wouldnt flow fuel, im wondering if the filter was a defect internally? Clean the filter really good, put it up to your mouth and try blowing through it and see if air comes out the other end, or maybe put an air hose to it and blow air through it. Im just curious to why it wont flow fuel. Are you positive the Napa one was definitely for your truck and you didnt by accident put the Napa one on backwards? I highly doubt you put it on backwards, especially twice, but figured id say it anyway. Has to be a reason why the new filter wont flow fuel. Mike


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## Arc Burn (Oct 21, 2002)

This may be far fetched but i have seen it happen twice,once on a tractor with a cross referenced feul filter it came with a o-ring that didnt get used in my application,second on a diesel welder when i installed a gasket wrong and wouldnt allow feul to flow in either case and caused hours of headaches,not sure about your filter but just a thought.


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## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

I already returned it. It was the correct part. I have used the same exact part before. The only thing that I can think of is that the plastic center part was not cast properly and did not have a tube that was completed, maybe it was bridged with some plastic. 

I can't even describe my frustration, I didn't even think to put the original back until I was about 2 seconds from calling a tow. I was pretty sure initially that I had a gelling problem. So I immediatly replaced the filter with a brand new one. Never even thought to go back to it.

Just glad it is over with.

Howard


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## Brickman (Jun 17, 2002)

Howard shoot me an email [email protected] I should be able to find you a place out of the Power Stroke Registry to mail order them where you can get two for the price of one Napa or Ford dealer.


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## plowman (Dec 10, 2002)

If it's a DI powerstroke, check preheater element behind fuel filter. Injectors are oil pressured and electric selnoid opens injectors for fuel. Check 60 amp maxi fuses (under the hood, driver side fender). It will start on ether because of 22.1 compression ratio, but using ether is not recommended.:waving:


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## chtucker (Sep 6, 2002)

Oh believe me I checked every related fuse... It started when I put a new filter in it.

Paul, What brand of filter? Dealer gets 55, Napa 41 and Checker had Fram for 23 (60 miles away you would understand that  )

I don't know if I trust the Fram, What are IH dealers selling them for?

Howard


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## Brickman (Jun 17, 2002)

Motorcraft.

Here is the details for all to enjoy, and you will enjoy the price. According to the web page these are the same filters, the only difference is if you want the box to say Motorcraft or not. Other wise these are OEM filters.

http://216.167.41.9/CoastalData/showdetl.cfm?&DID=30&Product_ID=934&CATID=2

http://216.167.41.9/CoastalData/showdetl.cfm?&DID=30&Product_ID=935&CATID=2

http://216.167.41.9/CoastalData/showdetl.cfm?&DID=30&Product_ID=297&CATID=2

http://216.167.41.9/CoastalData/showdetl.cfm?&DID=30&Product_ID=298&CATID=2

This is only a small sampling of what www.genosgarage.com has to offer. Ford, Dodge, and Chevy.


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## juggernaut (Jan 14, 2004)

Ether is okay in very small amounts. You are right, using too much with glow plugs on will back fire and cause a fire (take my word on this it happened the other day with our jacobsen deck mower with 3cyl kubota diesel. Using more than necessary poses a risk of fire and damage to the engine. Also Randy Scott, many people are competant and knowleadgeable in diesel repair here on this site. I would watch getting impatient with one who has been a member much longer than you. But hey I guess giving up and having others fix your problems is your best advice. God forbid he try to fix the problem himself rather than pay a dealership $60 an hour. God what are you thinking ChTucker?


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

First of all, either was used in engines without turbos. If you spray either in a turbo charges engine, you can kiss the turbo goodbye. It has nothing to do with the glow plugs being plugged in or not.

chtucker, was the culprit the cps? If so, nex time it happens (and it will happen again), you can replace the unit yourself. It only takes 10 minutes and a 10mm wrench. Piece of cake. I am glad you got it started.


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## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

I agree with the "watch what you say statement". Just because I don't have a SAE Mechanic patch on my jacket doesn't mean I can't fix it. The info's in a book somewhere to diagnose and fix most vehicle problems. It may take me longer but I didn't pay $65 and hour + parts and shop supplies either. Or pay to tow it.
I have multiple books on all my vehicles too, the library has even better ones. The powerstrokes a great motor and I drive one daily, they just need "adjusted" once in a while!


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## ADLAWNCUTTERS (May 24, 2001)

I would change the cps sensor,even it's not the problem you will need one down the road.


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## FSUPERDUTY (Jan 1, 2003)

all those filters are made by racor doesn't matter whose box it is in! If you don't belive me ask around on the diesel stop!


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## Plow Meister (Oct 16, 2001)

FSUPERDUTY, you are correct.


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## Fordtech (Feb 1, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MickiRig1 _
> *Just because I don't have a ASE Mechanic patch on my jacket doesn't mean I can't fix it. *


Well I do, and quite a few others actually! And I'm not afraid to tell you that that bad fuel filter would have stumped most anybody, you go and buy a new part( fuel filter,glow plug relay or cam sensor) you expect it to be good and it sucks when it isn't.

Most of the normal maintenance and repair can be performed by an owner/operator with a little mechanical knowledge but stuff like that can beat up anybody.


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## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

Didn't mean to sound belligerent with my posting. I get tried of people thinking a back yard mechanic can't fix anything fairly complex. I am not a "parts changer", I figure out the problem read the books and understand how the systems function. 
New parts can be bad, a parts counter guy once said 1 in 10,000 are bad, guess which one you just bought!
That's why I have new ignition modules tested when I buy them. Out of 6 I have purchased and installed, 2 were bad out of the box. Another died after 15 minutes of running,
I chased a fuel pressure problem for a year, all the parts were new, except the pressure operated tank switcher. Finally got frustrated tapped it with a hammer, found the problem! It would block flow when the back tank dropped below 1/2 tank and the front was empty.


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