# MVP3 Vs DXT



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

I have read most of the comparisons im looking for opinions on both. The plow will be either 8.2 DXT with wings or MVP3 with wings. Truck F250 use will be residental & commercial. The Boss dealer is 25 miles away and has great customer support the western dealer is in my town and has OK customer support. 

Please keep it constructive & give reasons for your choice. Thanks Jeramy


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I have no opinion to offer; just curious why you want the wings? If you are doing residential, an 8.5ish foot plow with wings on either side may not be the most maneuverable unit on a small driveway. You may want to consider trying whichever plow you go with first and add the wings later since for either brand they are going to be a big upgrade cost.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

My vote is Western

Reasons:
I like chain lift plows.
and
I like how in the off season, I don't have a giant bracket left on the front of my truck thus decreasing my ground clearance.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> My vote is Western
> 
> Reasons:
> I like chain lift plows.
> ...


I like whatever Phil likes...
Chain lift, easier mounting and the I dont like the boss controller.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I like whatever Phil likes...
> Chain lift, easier mounting and the I dont like the boss controller.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I like whatever Phil likes...


Geez, get a room


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Thanks guys. Good point about the wings I guess I was under the impression if I bought them with the plow I would get a better deal as a package the boss wings in stainless dealer quoted 800.00

Western dealer said 600.00

I did forget to ask what material do you guys recommend 
Steel
Stainless
Poly

Also forgot to add prices these are installed OTD

Boss 8.2
Steel 6250
Poly 6450
Stainless 6550

Western 8.5
Steal 6468
Poly 6670
Stainkess 7120


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> Thanks guys. Good point about the wings I guess I was under the impression if I bought them with the plow I would get a better deal as a package the boss wings in stainless dealer quoted 800.00
> 
> Western dealer said 600.00
> 
> ...


Steel = cool
Poly = cooler
Stainless = coolest


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

You may get a better price buying the wings with the plow so if you are sure you want them, that would probably be the time to get them. But I suspect that you not only won't need them, but may actually find them to be a hindrance. Someone else may have a different take on them.

There is a strong case to be made for Poly but virtually everything I sell is Stainless. With Stainless available, no one wants "plastic" anymore.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JT&SONS said:


> Thanks guys. Good point about the wings I guess I was under the impression if I bought them with the plow I would get a better deal as a package the boss wings in stainless dealer quoted 800.00
> 
> Western dealer said 600.00
> 
> ...


I have always had mild steel plows. As long as you keep up with them, shed them, and wash them, they will stay nice. Yes, they do rust in time, but so does the truck that it is attached too.

Poly - don't leave it in the sun, you will have a pink plow before to long.
Polys also typically weight more than a mild steel when you get up in the bigger Vee style plows. So if you are thinking poly for weight at all, double check that to be sure.

Stainless is cool. I like the idea. Just never really saw the real life need for a $500 more expensive plow to do the exact same thing with?


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

cwren2472 said:


> You may get a better price buying the wings with the plow so if you are sure you want them, that would probably be the time to get them. But I suspect that you not only won't need them, but may actually find them to be a hindrance. Someone else may have a different take on them.
> 
> There is a strong case to be made for Poly but virtually everything I sell is Stainless. With Stainless available, no one wants "plastic" anymore.


Thank you for your input. How are the prices i was qouted?


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## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

I’d vote for getting the wings. I’m just a personal plower - my large country driveway and a neighbors. Have a 8.5’ MVP with Western wings. The only time I don’t use the wings is in deep heavy snow.  Otherwise they really cut down on the time, help put the snow exactly where you want it (usually plow in slightly scooped mode), and are great in stacking and pushing back piles.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I tell every one of my customers that the Stainless Steel plow will NOT "last longer" because it is stainless. The steel moldboard takes years and years and years to rot to the point that you'll throw away the plow because of it. Then I also explain that you will have to give the painted moldboard a little TLC with touch up as it gets dinged and then everyone buys Stainless.

Is the stainless worth an extra $500? Probably not, but it seems that no one wants to save a cool 8% or so off their plow to end up with one that is guaranteed to get scratched the hell.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> Thank you for your input. How are the prices i was qouted?


Pricing seems very fair. They are very close to what I sell the Boss for. I don't sell Western, but those prices are very close to what I sell the equivalent Fishers for.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Polys also typically weight more than a mild steel when you get up in the bigger Vee style plows. So if you are thinking poly for weight at all, double check that to be sure.


+1 to this. Virtually everyone that shows an interest in Poly does so because they are under the very mistaken notion that the poly must weigh, like, 100 pounds tops.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

With the western you dont need an installation kit with the wings, they just pin on.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> +1 to this. Virtually everyone that shows an interest in Poly does so because they are under the very mistaken notion that the poly must weigh, like, 100 pounds tops.


On commercial grade Poly Plow weighs more to the increased wall thickness of the frame and the specific gravity/thickness of the poly used.
Poly plow still has rust issues just not the skins 
SS uses the same frame as the Poly just "skinned" with SS and still have rust issues
Mild steel moldboards are welded in place and are apart of the structure so the frame doesn't need to be as heavy walled.

As Phil said just wash you're plow after every event, along with keeping up on touching up any areas where the paint is scratched or worn and you'll have little to no issues.
The only thing a Poly plow has over SS or mild steel is when new snow is less likely to stick to them. Once you've scuffed the poly or after it's been baked in the sun snow will stick to them just like SS or mild steel.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

BUFF said:


> On commercial grade Poly Plow weighs more to the increased wall thickness of the frame and the specific gravity/thickness of the poly used.
> Poly plow still has rust issues just not the skins
> SS uses the same frame as the Poly just "skinned" with SS and still have rust issues
> Mild steel moldboards are welded in place and are apart of the structure so the frame doesn't need to be as heavy walled.
> ...


Thanks for sharing whats your plow preference MVP3 DXT & why? Im really going to have to rely on others for my choice since i have never owned one. Around my area everyone is western my buddy in coneticut swears by boss. so im not sure what to do. Im sure they are both pretty equal and it boils down to dealer just like mowers but there are the small differences that make people prefer one over the other.

I know one that just from look perspective for me is the western controller looks to be better to me but what do i no.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I despise the Western controller. Hookup is marginally easier on the Western. Headlights on the Boss are kick ass, and you'll never want to take the plow off all winter once you drive around at night once with them aimed correctly. Boss is easier to trouble shoot because it's not the multiplex wiring, and doesn't have the voodoo box of magic that the DD products have. 

Have a bag of spare parts and make sure the dealer for either plow is somewhat competent. We run all Boss, and I used to run Western. Got real tired of the QC on DD plows. 

I wouldn't waste my money on anything beyond mild steel but that's just me.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

What about an expanding plow? Nice and wide for back dragging drives, and "winged" for your commercial and moving residential piles.

I've never used a v or the expanding, but I do love my wings on my straight blade. Night and day difference


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

All the plows mentioned will do you fine. If I were you, I'd go with a V plow. If you are handy. You could do the install yourself.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Randall Ave said:


> All the plows mentioned will do you fine. If I were you, I'd go with a V plow. If you are handy. You could do the install yourself.


I thought about doing this. My only concern is my truck does have a 3.5 leveling kit on 35s. I need tires for winter so im considering going down to 33s. I just figured since i had never done it better to let some one do that has.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

What model year truck was it again?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Never owned either, but I would go DXT all the way.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Never owned either, but I would go DXT all the way.


Well, at least you didn't say an EXT.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

If you do any gravel drives you will hate anything with a trip edge, another option is the vxt.

Just to be difficult....


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

John_DeereGreen said:


> What model year truck was it again?


2005 F250 Supercab xlt


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JT&SONS said:


> 2005 F250 Supercab xlt


The Boss mount isn't too bad to install. Just make sure you've got good sharp drill bits.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> Thanks for sharing whats your plow preference MVP3 DXT & why? Im really going to have to rely on others for my choice since i have never owned one. Around my area everyone is western my buddy in coneticut swears by boss. so im not sure what to do. Im sure they are both pretty equal and it boils down to dealer just like mowers but there are the small differences that make people prefer one over the other.
> 
> I know one that just from look perspective for me is the western controller looks to be better to me but what do i no.


When I went from a straight blade to a V I looked at Boss, Western and Fisher and went with the DXT. The dual trip feature and direct lift where the two things that set the Boss ahead of the others. The dual trip "softens" the blow when hit something unexpected. Direct lift means no plow bounce when running down the road when the plow is up. It can be argued if a chain lift is properly set and the A frame is against the stops the plow won't bounce. Yes this is true how ever everything needs to be "perfect". I also like the Boss controller, very simple and the buttons are larger than the other guys. Having large hand / fingers small buttons are a problem for me.
The Boss truckside does hang down pretty low, but it also can be removed in the summer if you wanted to be "fashionable".
The only negative with the Boss is the A frame is it's weak point. Prior to the DXT this was a big problem since it was a full trip plow and when in scoop or V mode the plow tripped very violently.
Older Boss V's didn't come with "smart cylinders" so the wings would creep forward when back dragging, this was the case up to aboot 6yrs ago when all V's came with smart cylinders.
Some guys have had issues with the "wing return springs" breaking, I never had that issue but I also relaxed the springs in the off season too.
They all have their pros and cons, it's up to you to determine which is the best suited for you.
BTW Western was my second choice.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> If you do any gravel drives you will hate anything with a trip edge, another option is the vxt.
> 
> Just to be difficult....


Typical Kanadian..... Always stirring the sauce....


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JT&SONS said:


> Around my area everyone is western


Pretty sure you just answered your own question. You need to ask them why they run Western.

If everyone in an area runs a certain type of equipment, it is typically due to parts, service, and general dealer interaction. The more surplus of a brand type in an area, typically the better the dealer is on stocking parts.

I might be wrong, but when it comes down to how this type of stuff works (typically not only applying to snow plows) you can rely of the dealership testing that your colleagues/ competitors have already done for you.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I may be biased since I make money off plow installs, but I wouldn't recommend trying a save a few hundred dollars installing your new $6500 plow yourself unless you are very confident in your ability to do so. 

It isn't rocket science, but it also isn't the kind of thing that you'll bang out in an hour despite having no prior experience or knowledge. The instructions (especially those that come from Boss) are aimed at experienced installers, not do-it-yourselfers. That's why you find endless threads on here asking:
"Where do I connect the fuse wire?"
"Where do I mount the module?" 
"How do I get the wires inside the cab?"
etc. etc.

In addition, for an item under warranty, you'll alleviate yourself of the need to prove to the dealer that whatever issue might turn up, it was not the result of something you might have screwed up during the install process.

If you want to pinch pennies somewhere, skip the stainless, go painted, and get it professionally installed.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> In addition, for an item under warranty, you'll alleviate yourself of the need to prove to the dealer that whatever issue might turn up, it was not the result of something you might have screwed up during the install process.


The boss dealer was CONVINCED my issue last year was my fault. They spent hours going over everything trying to find where I went wrong


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JMHConstruction said:


> The boss dealer was CONVINCED my issue last year was my fault. They spent hours going over everything trying to find where I went wrong


I'll admit that I probably would have been convinced you screwed it up too.

Actually, the sanders are a lot more basic and more than half the customers take those cash and carry. I don't discourage that either as it frees us up to install plows. With the sanders, there is generally only so much you can screw up (which isn't to say that people don't.)


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> but it also isn't the kind of thing that you'll bang out in an hour


I can do it in 30 minutes... :laugh::clapping:


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> I can do it in 30 minutes... :laugh::clapping:


While swapping a spreader clutch with your free hand, no doubt


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> While swapping a spreader clutch with your free hand, no doubt


Why only 1? I could do 3 or 4 in 1/2 hour... 

You dealers sandbag this book time stuff.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> You dealers sandbag this book time stuff.


Shhhh. If you help keep our secret, I'll hook you up with a Fisher Snowplow knitted hat. I can probably throw in a keytag as well to sweeten the deal.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> I'll admit that I probably would have been convinced you screwed it up too.
> 
> Actually, the sanders are a lot more basic and more than half the customers take those cash and carry. I don't discourage that either as it frees us up to install plows. With the sanders, there is generally only so much you can screw up (which isn't to say that people don't.)





cwren2472 said:


> While swapping a spreader clutch with your free hand, no doubt


Sander... Spreader... Which is it!



cwren2472 said:


> Shhhh. If you help keep our secret, I'll hook you up with a Fisher Snowplow knitted hat. I can probably throw in a keytag as well to sweeten the deal.


Don't do it Phil, snow globe or bust...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Sander... Spreader... Which is it!


It's definitely one of those.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Sander... Spreader... Which is it!


Dangit...slow on the draw again.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Don't do it Phil, snow globe or bust...


I had to agree to trade my snow globe to @Mark Oomkes in exchange for some of that salt that he is hoarding


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> I may be biased since I make money off plow installs, but I wouldn't recommend trying a save a few hundred dollars installing your new $6500 plow yourself unless you are very confident in your ability to do so.
> 
> It isn't rocket science, but it also isn't the kind of thing that you'll bang out in an hour despite having no prior experience or knowledge. The instructions (especially those that come from Boss) are aimed at experienced installers, not do-it-yourselfers. That's why you find endless threads on here asking:
> "Where do I connect the fuse wire?"
> ...


On the flip side by doing your own install you know where all the components are located in the event you have a problem in the middle of the night or over a weekend and you can add additional shielding to wiring were the may rub. So of the shop monkeys I've seen at dealers I'd have a had time letting them wash windows...... 
You just need to be able to read and comprehend what you're reading.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BUFF said:


> and you can add additional shielding to wiring were the may rub.


Or you can be like some of the self-installs I see where it's much quicker to just drape all the wiring straight across the engine bay. That engine thingy in the middle doesn't get that hot, does it?

I'll grant that I get your point, though


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BUFF said:


> * and comprehend*


Those two words are the important ones


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## tynsmyth1 (Jul 13, 2013)

Jt&sons' I own two mvp3s 8.5 with wings. Steel blade. I have. Found them to be an incredible piece of snow removal equipment. Although I do not do any residential I cAn see no downside to having wings. The plow will capture and control the snow and place it where you want it. As far as dealer support I only see my dealer in the summer when I drop them off for fluid changes. Good luck with your choice


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Such a tough choice. I was hoping you guys would pave the way for me. I think it's going to boil down to which ever dealer will let me be apart of the installation so I can see for myself how things go together is going to he the brand I choose.

The hardest part for me is the dealer in town the western dealer is 5 miles from my house. But man evertime I try and get parts for my hand held power equipment it's like pulling teeth. The boss dealer is 30 mile drive and I ha e no experience with them they have 4.9 star reviews and have always been good about answering and calling back. Both dealers seem like they gave me fair prices according to you guys. Shoot I don't know.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> I think it's going to boil down to which ever dealer will let me be apart of the installation so I can see for myself how things go together is.


Good luck with that. Let me know how that works out for you

Perhaps you could purchase the plow cash and carry and drive it to @Randall Ave 's garage and pay him to install it side by side with you


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

cwren2472 said:


> Good luck with that. Let me know how that works out for you
> 
> Perhaps you could purchase the plow cash and carry and drive it to @Randall Ave 's garage and pay him to install it side by side with you


Umm, nope, insurance company sez no on that one. No one is going to let him hang out in the shop during an install.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Do either dealers open up during a storm?

If it's 2am and something goes out that you don't have in stock, it's nice knowing they are open


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JT&SONS said:


> The hardest part for me is the dealer in town the western dealer is 5 miles from my house. But man evertime I try and get parts for my hand held power equipment it's like pulling teeth.


Sounds like you answered your own question...


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Yea you guys are probably right about them not letting me in the shop. It doesnt hurt to ask. I will update tomorrow after i have a chance to call and ask. I built Cat D9,10,11 dozers for 13 years so it shouldnt be to dificult. 

So whats everyones thoughts on Joystick vs Controller?
Does the western really stack higher?
Are the claims about western using softer steal on there cutting edges true?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> So whats everyones thoughts on Joystick vs Controller?


No one uses joystick on a V plow


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I like the hand help controller.
If they let you in the shop, I would be surprised.
Its a running joke here.
I have never run into that problem.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Who are you calling no one...!!!


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mr.Markus said:


> Who are you calling no one...!!!


Here we go.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> No one uses joystick on a V plow


Yeah there's more of "them" out there then you'd think....


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mr.Markus said:


> Who are you calling no one...!!!


Well, what do you expect from someone that uses the metric system and spells "color" with a "u".


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Yeah there's more of "them" out there then you'd think....


Them?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

cwren2472 said:


> Well, what do you expect from someone that uses the metric system and spells "color" with a "u".


IF you feel you need your hand held while plowing who am I to argue with you.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> No one uses joystick on a V plow


Only reason I use a touch pad is when we ran Eblings to be able to run both controllers at once.

Otherwise...joystick all the way.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mr.Markus said:


> IF you feel you need your hand held while plowing who am I to argue with you.


If you feel the need to play with your joystick while plowing, who am I to argue with you


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> No one uses joystick on a V plow


Does it make me old if I can remember when "joystick" had an entirely different meaning?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Does it make me old if I can remember when "joystick" had an entirely different meaning?


No it makes you 14


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Does it make me old if I can remember when "joystick" had an entirely different meaning?


2600...?


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> No it makes you 14


That's aboot right.....


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> 2600...?


Back in the mid 70's we built prototype molds for that Atari game, joy stick included.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> That's aboot right.....


Whatever...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> 2600...?


Not quite...


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I’m ambidextrous, my plow control is on the door utilizing my left hand, the back blade control is attached to it too. Salter controls are on the right, with coffee and skittles.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> No it makes you 14


K...from Miami???


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> I'm ambidextrous, my plow control is on the door utilizing my left hand, the back blade control is attached to it too. Salter controls are on the right, with coffee and skittles.


Aren't most minions ambidextrous?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> K...from Miami???


Yeah buy not the 80's cool Miami vice, Miami, the now retirement community Miami. 


Mark Oomkes said:


> Aren't most minions ambidextrous?


LOL


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

I was planning on my wife controlling the joystick. I just need to keep the plow going in the right direction.

So is that a no on western using softer steel


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JT&SONS said:


> I was planning on my wife controlling the joystick. I just need to keep the plow going in the right direction.
> 
> So is that a no on western using softer steel



You need to be running the plow, not your wife

Edit: the driver should be running the plow, not the passenger


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> I was planning on my wife controlling the joystick. I just need to keep the plow going in the right direction.
> 
> So is that a no on western using softer steel


If you don't think you can handle driving and plowing at the same time, then you should probably abandon the idea of trying to install it yourself.

As far as the edge, I've seen no proof of softer edges.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JMHConstruction said:


> You need to be running the plow, not your wife
> 
> Edit: the driver should be running the plow, not the passenger


Never mind...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Never mind...


The temptation is killing you, isn't it?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I really hope that's a joke...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> The temptation is killing you, isn't it?


You have no idea...so many options, opportunities, deleted posts...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You have no idea...so many options, opportunities, deleted posts...


I had like three that I deleted before hitting "POST". Such a waste.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Hand held controller in my right hand, I can also shift and steer with that hand and that leaves the left hand free to flip off the competition.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I really hope that's a joke...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Hand held controller in my right hand, I can also shift and steer with that hand and that leaves the left hand free to flip off the *homeowners and other drivers*.


Fixed it for you.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Getting this thread back on track (before the fire and brimstone rain down,) I'll say that I'm genuinely surprised that that many of you use a joystick on a V plow. I can honestly say that I think I've sold exactly 1 V plow ever where someone chose the joystick. And I've never actually plowed with either, but the layout of the joystick seems like it would be absurdly annoying to try and get used to. But you guys that actually have to use them probably know better than me.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

My right hand seldom leaves the shoebox, left hand steers and shifts. 

What really sucks is going from a loader to a truck and trying to shift from F to R or vice versa with the turn signal lever.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Getting this thread back on track (before the fire and brimstone rain down,) I'll say that I'm genuinely surprised that that many of you use a joystick on a V plow. I can honestly say that I think I've sold exactly 1 V plow ever where someone chose the joystick. And I've never actually plowed with either, but the layout of the joystick seems like it would be absurdly annoying to try and get used to. But you guys that actually have to use them probably know better than me.


Had a Fisher with a Fishstick...stupidest controller in the world.

I don't understand why people want a controller that moves all over the cab. I want it in the exact same spot, orientation, every single time. If I hit the brakes hard it doesn't fly on to the floor. I can pick up my phone and set it down and the controller is still where I left it.

Do you see heavy equipment with pistol grip controllers? No, everything is a joystick, permanently mounted.

FWIW, I'm completely underwhelmed by the SnowEx joystick controller. Still loving my shoebox.

PS The other major pet peeve is plow up and plow down is backwards on every single controller now. Blizzard was the only one that had it right and DD screwed that up. Whether it be a loader, dozer, fork truck, skidsteer, even airplanes...forward is down, pull back to raise. Only in the world of commercial snowplowing is it backasswards.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I can appreciate on a straight blade why people want the joystick; the fact that the fleetflex joystick doesn't work like the standard one pisses off lots of people. And lots of BOSS customers wish that BOSS made an equivalent joystick as opposed to the hand held. 

But pushing the joystick toward "10:00" for scoop, "2:00" for retract, and "7:00" to make the left wing do SOMETHING (in? out? Who knows? Let's push it and find out what it does this time) strikes me as very counter-intuitive. 

I think the BOSS joystick design for the V plow is much better but since the thing is the size of an Egyptian pyramid, no one wants it.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> PS The other major pet peeve is plow up and plow down is backwards on every single controller now. Blizzard was the only one that had it right and DD screwed that up. Whether it be a loader, dozer, fork truck, skidsteer, even airplanes...forward is down, pull back to raise. Only in the world of commercial snowplowing is it backasswards.


Unless you have the joystick mounted flat against the dash with the lever pointing at you. Then pushing the lever "up" would make the plow go "down" in your example.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Unless you have the joystick mounted flat against the dash with the lever pointing at you. Then pushing the lever "up" would make the plow go "down" in your example.


Mounted horizontal...joystick forward, plow is raised. Joystick back, plow goes down.

You won't find another piece of equipment that has the "raise" at the top or forward and "lower" at the bottom or rear.










How does one raise the plow? The switch on the side?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

The shoebox that everyone hated was really easiest and most intuitive controller to use. Joystick controlled up down and angle. Rocker switches controlled wings in or out. And you didn't have to hit the rocker switch twice to get it to do what you wanted, just depended on which side you depressed.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


>


"Bucket Blade" and "Compact" 

They couldn't license the use of the words "Scoop" and "Vee" from their own parent company?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> "Bucket Blade" and "Compact"
> 
> They couldn't license the use of the words "Scoop" and "Vee" from their own parent company?


The issue with this controller is it's small and very easy to angle instead of bucket or compact. Or up\down. And up\down is backasswards.

Still better than the handheld\pistol grip that can't be permanently mounted.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)




----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Oh great, now you'll get the people going that insist that plows haven't been the same since they "abandoned belt drive and cables."


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Plows just haven't been the same since we got away from power steering pumps and threaded rod through the firewall for controls.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Mounted horizontal...joystick forward, plow is raised. Joystick back, plow goes down.
> 
> You won't find another piece of equipment that has the "raise" at the top or forward and "lower" at the bottom or rear.
> 
> ...


I could be wrong but I think it started with the Ford/Ferugson 3 point lever. Pull back to raise push forward to lower.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I could be wrong but I think it started with the Ford/Ferugson 3 point lever. Pull back to raise push forward to lower.


Yet another example of the plow manufacturers being backasswards.


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yet another example of the plow manufacturers being backasswards.


I always thought of Ford as being bassackwards, Ford tractors use to be positive ground, the model T later he built the model A.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> But pushing the joystick toward "10:00" for scoop, "2:00" for retract, and "7:00" to make the left wing do SOMETHING (in? out? Who knows? Let's push it and find out what it does this time) strikes me as very counter-intuitive.


You don't have any seat time. That is the reason that it makes no sense to you.

Run one for about 24hrs straight and you will not even realize that your hand just automagicly moves the stick to the correct position to do what you need the plow to do.

I have to agree with Mark on the hand held all over the cab part. Can't stand a hand held. I like the joystick as it is always in the EXACT same spot when my hand goes for it. I also hate the buttons as you have to "feel" the buttons to know what you are going to do. I turned the power off on my MVP3 about 50 times the first time I plowed with the handheld while trying to put the plow into "vee" formation.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I always thought of Ford as being bassackwards, Ford tractors use to be positive ground, the model T later he built the model A.


Alot of the brands of old 6 volt tractors are a positive ground.

Good part is when jumping them with a pickup, you can really get that starter screaming.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> make the left wing do SOMETHING (in? out?


Exactly correct...


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Alot of the brands of old 6 volt tractors are a positive ground.
> 
> Good part is when jumping them with a pickup, you can really get that starter screaming.


Just dont have the lights on while jumping with 12 volt.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Just dont have the lights on while jumping with 12 volt.


Could you jump it with a bolt of lighting you think?


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Could you jump it with a bolt of lighting you think?


Only in Jersey.


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> Could you jump it with a bolt of lighting you think?


Nikola Tesla could.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

So could he


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

1.21 jiggawats is just like 6 volt positive ground...







Only completely different.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

So I'm surprised at the amount of people using the stick. I figured more people would be using the controller. 

Are either plows Union made?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> Are either plows Union made?


Why? Do you want one built by Union monkeys?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Rather have it built by a Union Monkey than a low life Lawn Monkey


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)




----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Rather have it built by a Union Monkey than a low life Lawn Monkey


Then there's the lowest of the low...a lawn monkey who became a union silverback...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> So I'm surprised at the amount of people using the stick. I figured more people would be using the controller.
> 
> Are either plows Union made?


Question: on tractors, loaders, skidsteers, excavators, backhoes, graders, airplanes, tanks, whatever the controllers on a handheld controller that can be moved all over the cab?

Or are they in the exact same place every single time you reach for them without looking? And are they intuitive...so after a week of plowing 12+ hours a day you don't have to think about what the button is going to make the plow do?

I have no idea who the plow manufacturers are getting these controller ideas from, but having to hit a button twice to get it to retract because the last time you hit it it caused it to extend or flip a switch to change what the button does is just stupid.


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

No such thing as 1 union monkey building anything it takes the collective brain power of a bunch...and 1 guy off on a sick day delays the product lauch by a week.

@Mark Oomkes I had a whole essay written up about equipment controls being where you left them and intuitive. I realize the fight it starts with people's personal preferences so I deleted it.
My first plow was the 2 toggle switches mounted to the dash I still prefer that to a hand held.

.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mr.Markus said:


> No such thing as 1 union monkey building anything it takes the collective brain power of a bunch...and 1 guy off on a sick day delays the product lauch by a week.
> 
> @Mark Oomkes I had a whole essay written up about equipment controls being where you left them and intuitive. I realize the fight it starts with people's personal preferences so I deleted it.
> My first plow was the 2 toggle switches mounted to the dash I still prefer that to a hand held.
> ...


Meyer twin stick?

I was always shutting the headlights of on that setup. Took a while to get used to a single.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> @Mark Oomkes I had a whole essay written up about equipment controls being where you left them and intuitive. I realize the fight it starts with people's personal preferences so I deleted it.
> My first plow was the 2 toggle switches mounted to the dash I still prefer that to a hand held.


I would have loved to read it...I've also got a bridge for sale.

My dad had that setup on our one and only GMC...mounted left of the steering column. I hated it because I bashed my knee on it every time I got into it.

I can remember the manual valves mounted on the hump. The threaded rod through the firewall that you had to lean forward to activate so you end up like the hunchback of Notre whatever. Rocker switches for Boss. The above mentioned switches on the dash. Fishstick. Joystick on a Western. Shoebox for Blizzards which IMO are still the best.

All of our controllers over the past 15 years have been removable, except in the larger trucks. All of our trucks that don't have spreaders have a backblade so that's another controller we need which gets mounted to the side of the OEM controller.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Here is a handheld and a joystick that you can doubly hate:


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

For the record, the BOSS hand held does not require any "double tapping" nor "mode buttons" on the v plow. It DOES require a fair amount of pushing two buttons at once but the controller is very simple to operate. 

I personally prefer it to the DD style, but I only have to use it while diagnosing in the bay so I wouldn't place too much weight on my opinion.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

cwren2472 said:


> so I wouldn't place too much weight on my opinion.


"Don't worry, no one does."

Beat you to it, Mark.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> "Don't worry, no one does."
> 
> Beat you to it, Mark.


Dangit!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> For the record, the BOSS hand held does not require any "double tapping" nor "mode buttons" on the v plow. It DOES require a fair amount of pushing two buttons at once but the controller is very simple to operate.
> 
> I personally prefer it to the DD style, but I only have to use it while diagnosing in the bay so I wouldn't place too much weight on my opinion.


Agreed Boss is a cake walk and very easy... Even a lawn monkey can operate it efficiently without much training...


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Question: on tractors, loaders, skidsteers, excavators, backhoes, graders, airplanes, tanks, whatever the controllers on a handheld controller that can be moved all over the cab?
> 
> Moved all over the cab?? Its on a cord how far can it go. While plowing my controller is always in my hand even when going from job to job. I dont have to look for it or reach for anything. And I dont have something the size of Buff's shoe taking up space in my cab.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Then there's the lowest of the low...a lawn monkey who became a union silverback...


Sure....Your right...I don't know what I was thinking....


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Agreed. Can shift, steer and control blade all in right hand... Meanwhile you're flipping off competition with the left, I'm getting quality pics with my left... Everyone wins.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Sure....Your right...I don't know what I was thinking....


Are you ferious with me?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

You and your mini me AJ Lawn


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)




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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> View attachment 183151


Hey now.................. lets not drift to far off topic fella......:laugh:


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I would have loved to read it...I've also got a bridge for sale.


How much... I need one. Badly...

Been driving around for only 481 days  not that I am counting

http://www.wspynews.com/news/local/...cle_dce1a92a-a641-11e8-aef1-3f51119e8079.html


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

BUFF said:


> Hey now.................. lets not drift to far off topic fella......:laugh:


Yea I know. I thought it would be funny. I've been a union man my whole life 4 generation Caterpillar factory worker. I actually still hold my Labors union card from 1998 but haven't worked through them since 2000. But this way I can bid union jobs with out repercussions.

Anyway I just asked cause it looks to me like Boss plows are union made and western are not. I'm having trouble finding anything for sure so I'm going to call and ask. It will make my mind up for me if one is union made or not.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Careful JT...A lot of Yard Monkeys Don’t understand Benefits and a living wage...When your one rung beneath a carnival worker in intelligence it’s a hard concept to grasp...They get angry and there only retort is posting monkey pictures...Like they say...Small things amuse small minds


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)




----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

Defcon 5 said:


> Careful JT...A lot of Yard Monkeys Don't understand Benefits and a living wage...When your one rung beneath a carnival worker in intelligence it's a hard concept to grasp...They get angry and there only retort is posting monkey pictures...Like they say...Small things amuse small minds


again, joking or not, there's no need for the degrading comments at one another. I know you guys like to rib each other but sometimes, it's just not needed and uncalled for

thanks


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> again, joking or not, there's no need for the degrading comments at one another. I know you guys like to rib each other but sometimes, it's just not needed and uncalled for
> 
> thanks


But yet the monkey pictures continue...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

The Koolaid is strong...


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Defcon 5 said:


> When your one rung beneath a carnival worker in intelligence it's a hard concept to grasp...


As a part time carnival worker, I am very offended by this


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Your a rare carnival worker...Your smart enough to realize your offended ...


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Defcon 5 said:


> Your a rare carnival worker...Your smart enough to realize your offended ...


Just wait till I get you on my spinning cups


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Look in all honesty I wasn't trying to start a argument. I respect everyones opinions and that's the wonderful thing about being American we are all entitled to our own opinion. The union is a brother hood and I can tell you for 100% they have done me right my whole life while corporate America has **** on me and my fellow Co workers.

This is why I walked away from a $28.00 a hr job. I was steward on my line for 8 years had 80 Co workers on my line. The last 2 years the company I worked for went from building 6 dozers a day to .3/4 maybe 1 I watched all but 8 of us get laid off. Then when people started coming back it wasn't my Co workers it was supplemental employees making 15.00 a hr. That was it I quit and started my own business and have been more happy ever since. I refuse to be a slave to corporate America.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> Look in all honesty I wasn't trying to start a argument. I respect everyones opinions and that's the wonderful thing about being American we are all entitled to our own opinion. The union is a brother hood and I can tell you for 100% they have done me right my whole life while corporate America has **** on me and my fellow Co workers.
> 
> This is why I walked away from a $28.00 a hr job. I was steward on my line for 8 years had 80 Co workers on my line. The last 2 years the company I worked for went from building 6 dozers a day to .3/4 maybe 1 I watched all but 8 of us get laid off. Then when people started coming back it wasn't my Co workers it was supplemental employees making 15.00 a hr. That was it I quit and started my own business and have been more happy ever since. I refuse to be a slave to corporate America.


So a little more info... Was this a union shop obviously... How did they hire $15/hr guys... I thought this is what the union is supposed to do put the fired guys back to work... How did corporate America do this...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> Look in all honesty I wasn't trying to start a argument. I respect everyones opinions and that's the wonderful thing about being American we are all entitled to our own opinion. The union is a brother hood and I can tell you for 100% they have done me right my whole life while corporate America has **** on me and my fellow Co workers.
> 
> This is why I walked away from a $28.00 a hr job. I was steward on my line for 8 years had 80 Co workers on my line. The last 2 years the company I worked for went from building 6 dozers a day to .3/4 maybe 1 I watched all but 8 of us get laid off. Then when people started coming back it wasn't my Co workers it was supplemental employees making 15.00 a hr. That was it I quit and started my own business and have been more happy ever since. I refuse to be a slave to corporate America.


Not my question because I'm 1 rung below a carnie.

Do your current customers hire you because you have a union card?

My question:

2 plows of equal capability and quality. One is union built and costs $1000 more due to benefits extorted from the "man". The other is just as well built and efficient...but not built in a union shop.

Which one do you buy?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Are these plows chainlift???...


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Ajlawn1 said:


> So a little more info... Was this a union shop obviously... How did they hire $15/hr guys... I thought this is what the union is supposed to do put the fired guys back to work... How did corporate America do this...


Most guys had 2 years of call back rights the company waited to start calling people back for around 2.5 years guys that had been there for up to around the 8 year mark were being called back but to return as supplemental no benefits and take a pay cut. So while i will say most of my co workers had already found other employment and denied the work some did come back very few the ones that did had lost it all and had young kids at home. 
Keep mind also this was company wide i only saw what was going in my shop. In total i want to say it was something 12k people lost there jobs in my area. Globally the number was 30k lost jobs. The sad thing is the non union people got it worse the company people 80 engineers 120k a year jobs come on a Friday which is dubbed as black Friday now and never made it to there desk security met them at the door escorted them back out of the building while there bosses cleaned there offices out. We had 2 people on the bridge over our lot threatening suicide it was crazy. At least the union guys got 90 days notice they would be gone. Nothing worse then having to train a fellow co worker to do your job and once they are trained you get you walking papers. I know i felt like crap i took the job of Mom the lady in the picture i posted was training me. She had 3 kids at home husband had cancer and relied upon the benefits of the wife heavily. But she trained me with a smile.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Are these plows chainlift???...


Yes


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not my question because I'm 1 rung below a carnie.
> 
> Do your current customers hire you because you have a union card?
> 
> ...


In all honesty that's a tough a choice. Because it is border line dumb to spend the extra money. Knowing me i would go for the Union made plow. I know I'm not going to make a huge difference but i don't support non union companies if i have a choice.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yes


So western plows are not union made? And boss are? Is that what we are getting at with this?


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Ajlawn1 said:


> So a little more info... Was this a union shop obviously... How did they hire $15/hr guys... I thought this is what the union is supposed to do put the fired guys back to work... How did corporate America do this...


This has been going on at Cat for as long as I can remember.

http://socialistworker.org/2005-1/525/525_11_Caterpillar.php

The little town I grew up in, you farmed, were a school teacher, worked at the hospital, or worked at CAT.

When most of the town was on strike in the 90's the town economy was impacted quite a bit.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> Most guys had 2 years of call back rights the company waited to start calling people back for around 2.5 years guys that had been there for up to around the 8 year mark were being called back but to return as supplemental no benefits and take a pay cut. So while i will say most of my co workers had already found other employment and denied the work some did come back very few the ones that did had lost it all and had young kids at home.
> Keep mind also this was company wide i only saw what was going in my shop. In total i want to say it was something 12k people lost there jobs in my area. Globally the number was 30k lost jobs. The sad thing is the non union people got it worse the company people 80 engineers 120k a year jobs come on a Friday which is dubbed as black Friday now and never made it to there desk security met them at the door escorted them back out of the building while there bosses cleaned there offices out. We had 2 people on the bridge over our lot threatening suicide it was crazy. At least the union guys got 90 days notice they would be gone. Nothing worse then having to train a fellow co worker to do your job and once they are trained you get you walking papers. I know i felt like crap i took the job of Mom the lady in the picture i posted was training me. She had 3 kids at home husband had cancer and relied upon the benefits of the wife heavily. But she trained me with a smile.


Not getting into the callback part, only the layoffs.

What would your solution have been?


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

JT&SONS said:


> So western plows are not union made? And boss are? Is that what we are getting at with this?


No. Just a joke among them


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> This has been going on at Cat for as long as I can remember.
> 
> http://socialistworker.org/2005-1/525/525_11_Caterpillar.php
> 
> ...


Yep i went through the strikes in the 90s with my ol man ripped my family apart my dad Very strong union man would never cross my GPA needed 2 years to retire and crossed still to this day they don't talk my GPA is now 82 and retired in 1995 23 years ago. Its very awkward when they have to be in the same room. The machine i was at for the first few years had bullet holes in the walls from the strike.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> So western plows are not union made? And boss are? Is that what we are getting at with this?


I was posing a hypothetical question. I could care less who makes it.

First thing I care about is reliability. Second is efficiency. Third or fourth is price. Not even on the list is whether its a union shop or not.


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not getting into the callback part, only the layoffs.
> 
> What would your solution have been?


Company goes belly up and were all buying Komatsu or Hyundai heavy equipment. The people in those countries work for there needs not there wants.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JT&SONS said:


> So western plows are not union made? And boss are? Is that what we are getting at with this?


It appears that Boss is union


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> Yep i went through the strikes in the 90s with my ol man ripped my family apart my dad Very strong union man would never cross my GPA needed 2 years to retire and crossed still to this day they don't talk my GPA is now 82 and retired in 1995 23 years ago. Its very awkward when they have to be in the same room. The machine i was at for the first few years had bullet holes in the walls from the strike.


Those sure are the types of people I want working for me. No wonder they have 90 days to the union guys, probably bulletproofed the building during those 90 days.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yes





LapeerLandscape said:


> Company goes belly up and were all buying Komatsu or Hyundai heavy equipment. The people in those countries work for there needs not there wants.


Are Jagoof lights a "need" or a "want"????


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> It appears that Boss is union
> 
> View attachment 183155
> View attachment 183156


How ironic that the employee himself complains about the union being the worst aspect of working there


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> Yea I know. I thought it would be funny. I've been a union man my whole life 4 generation Caterpillar factory worker. I actually still hold my Labors union card from 1998 but haven't worked through them since 2000. But this way I can bid union jobs with out repercussions.
> 
> Anyway I just asked cause it looks to me like Boss plows are union made and western are not. I'm having trouble finding anything for sure so I'm going to call and ask. It will make my mind up for me if one is union made or not.


I have a guy that works for that worked for Cat in the late 70's/early 80's. He's not a ball of fire when it comes producing and has a had time checking his work before he passes it on. Seems like he thinks doing enough to "meet quota" is good enough and someone else down the road will eventually check his work. The only real positive things aboot him is, he shows up on time everyday and has no problem taking time off when things slow down, but when we're bizze and guys are working 60hrs a week he'll only do 45hrs a week.

Now back to plows..... My DXT was pre el' Toro ownership, not taking a stab at el' Toro but based on what I've seen the newer Boss products aren't the same quality as they were before.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Are Jagoof lights a "need" or a "want"????


Yes...


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

As is Western (Douglas Dynamics)










http://www.annualreports.com/HostedData/AnnualReports/PDF/NYSE_PLOW_2017.pdf


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Philbilly2 said:


> It appears that Boss is union
> 
> View attachment 183155
> View attachment 183156


Why is it even relevant if a a plow manufacture is union or not? I'll be There's a parts on that plow that aren't made by union companies, and anyone that buys them is supporting the "non union" companies.

This is such a petty debate, I still can't believe I'm posting in it


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

cwren2472 said:


> How ironic that the employee himself complains about the union being the worst aspect of working there


That is how many of them are. That is the part that pisses me off about unions. The guys who kill it every day carry the lames.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Why is it even relevant if a a plow manufacture is union or not? I'll be There's a parts on that plow that aren't made by union companies, and anyone that buys them is supporting the "non union" companies.
> 
> This is such a petty debate, I still can't believe I'm posting in it


Read the thread. The OP is a union man and would like to support his brothers and sisters.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not getting into the callback part, only the layoffs.
> 
> What would your solution have been?


I'm not sure cause obviously the company was still turning a profit and the share holders were still making a 3% gain. But in all honesty this was the companies fault. No one will talk about the fact that 2008 recession was bad for the company.

This how it shook out in my opinion and a lot of others. So after the downturn in 2008 we had contracts coming up in 2011 everybody was still pissed the 2005 contract was signed. Then they took smoking away from us on the shop floors in 2007 when the law changed in ILL that caused some wild cat strikes this where the union and employees started separating. See a wild cat is a non sanctioned strike so the company saw that the work force was picking up steam and had balls. So then with contracts coming up in 2011 they had us building tons of machines preparing for a strike i mean there were dozers everywhere build and just sitting on lots waiting to go. We had 2 shifts working 12 hr days pumping out 15 a day. We even had companies employees down on our jobs we were forced to train them in case we did strike. So this is where they messed your talking a basic D9 is around 900k D10 1.2 Mil D11 2 MILL. We were doing 2 D9s a day 2 10s and 2 11s each shift give or take 1 or 2.

So now you have all this stock and then coal took a huge hit and stuff sat and sat it back fired on them. The worker ended paying the price. I can remember going into work and telling the young guns slow down you are working our self out of a job and they were so naive they didnt be leave me. Well guess what they dropped 2nd shift and went to first shift only and they were the first ones to go. That worked for a year or 2 then guys on first shift were starting to get moved or laid off. Thats my take on it.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JT&SONS said:


> telling the young guns slow down you are working our self out of a job


Well... I just made up my mind about you.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Why is it even relevant if a a plow manufacture is union or not? I'll be There's a parts on that plow that aren't made by union companies, and anyone that buys them is supporting the "non union" companies.
> 
> This is such a petty debate, I still can't believe I'm posting in it


But at least I know that if I buy a domestic vehicle built in that union shop, all the parts are made domestically, so that should count for something


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I was behind you till you said that. 

You are part of the problem... not the solution...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> I'm not sure cause obviously the company was still turning a profit and the share holders were still making a 3% gain. But in all honesty this was the companies fault. No one will talk about the fact that 2008 recession was bad for the company.
> 
> This how it shook out in my opinion and a lot of others. So after the downturn in 2008 we had contracts coming up in 2011 everybody was still pissed the 2005 contract was signed. Then they took smoking away from us on the shop floors in 2007 when the law changed in ILL that caused some wild cat strikes this where the union and employees started separating. See a wild cat is a non sanctioned strike so the company saw that the work force was picking up steam and had balls. So then with contracts coming up in 2011 they had us building tons of machines preparing for a strike i mean there were dozers everywhere build and just sitting on lots waiting to go. We had 2 shifts working 12 hr days pumping out 15 a day. We even had companies employees down on our jobs we were forced to train them in case we did strike. So this is where they messed your talking a basic D9 is around 900k D10 1.2 Mil D11 2 MILL. We were doing 2 D9s a day 2 10s and 2 11s each shift give or take 1 or 2.
> 
> So now you have all this stock and then coal took a huge hit and stuff sat and sat it back fired on them. The worker ended paying the price. I can remember going into work and telling the young guns slow down you are working our self out of a job and they were so naive they didnt be leave me. Well guess what they dropped 2nd shift and went to first shift only and they were the first ones to go. That worked for a year or 2 then guys on first shift were starting to get moved or laid off. Thats my take on it.


Not sure how old you are, but you would have made a very faithful Jim Jones follower.

I'm out...after admitting that you'd make a dumb decision...I got nuthin


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Defcon 5 said:


> Are Jagoof lights a "need" or a "want"????


A want a candle is a need.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> I was behind you till you said that.
> 
> You are part of the problem... not the solution...


Typical union moto... Throw in government, state, county, local etc...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> A want a candle is a need.


Union made candle???


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Philbilly2 said:


> Read the thread. The OP is a union man and would like to support his brothers and sisters.


I think Mark summed it up well,


Mark Oomkes said:


> First thing I care about is reliability. Second is efficiency. Third or fourth is price. Not even on the list is whether its a union shop or not.


 I don't think personal opinions should effect who you choose to do business with, but it is your business and you can do what ever you want.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Philbilly2 said:


> I was behind you till you said that.
> 
> You are part of the problem... not the solution...


Not anymore i quit. if you believe in something you need to support it. Not that it made one difference to the company that i quit but it felt so good to walk out of there and never look back. I have been much happier ever since i would rather be poor then work for a company that doesn't care about anything but lining there pockets. This is my last post on the Union debate.

I appreciate you guys taking the time to respond to my questions. I apologize for starting a pissing a match i didn't think it would be like that in the forums since we are all self employed.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I lied...



JT&SONS said:


> company that doesn't care about anything but lining there pockets.


You do realize profits are a good thing? Those stockholders that were receiving dividends were using that money to build houses or buildings that require excavating equipment which is what you were building?

How long have you been self employed? How many employees do you have...not sons, true employees.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I think Mark summed it up well,


I agree with Mark as well. But when it comes to boss and western it seems they are both about equal. I really think its going to come down to price and dealer.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I lied...
> 
> You do realize profits are a good thing? Those stockholders that were receiving dividends were using that money to build houses or buildings that require excavating equipment which is what you were building?
> 
> How long have you been self employed? How many employees do you have...not sons, true employees.


I'm a green thumb I've only been doing this 3 years. None i have 4 kids so i have a 2 crews. I doubt i will hire any one outside the family. I don't want to get to big. I like to be able to be personal with all my customers build a relationship with them Quality over quantity


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> I'm a green thumb I've only been doing this 3 years. None i have 4 kids so i have a 2 crews. I doubt i will hire any one outside the family


Wise man once told me...


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> I'm a green thumb I've only been doing this 3 years. None i have 4 kids so i have a 2 crews. I doubt i will hire any one outside the family


Have you told any of your kids "slow down, you are working too fast, you'll work yourself out of a job"?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JT&SONS said:


> I'm a green thumb I've only been doing this 3 years. None i have 4 kids so i have a 2 crews. I doubt i will hire any one outside the family. I don't want to get to big. I like to be able to be personal with all my customers build a relationship with them Quality over quantity


K


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

cwren2472 said:


> Have you told any of your kids "slow down, you are working too fast, you'll work yourself out of a job"?


No i have not.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

This has been a good read. 

Things get real when you have another person's family to support. It adds stress, but can be more rewarding. I'm sure family has the same effect, but the relationship is very different.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

JT&SONS said:


> I'm not sure cause obviously the company was still turning a profit and the share holders were still making a 3% gain. But in all honesty this was the companies fault. No one will talk about the fact that 2008 recession was bad for the company.
> 
> This how it shook out in my opinion and a lot of others. So after the downturn in 2008 we had contracts coming up in 2011 everybody was still pissed the 2005 contract was signed. Then they took smoking away from us on the shop floors in 2007 when the law changed in ILL that caused some wild cat strikes this where the union and employees started separating. See a wild cat is a non sanctioned strike so the company saw that the work force was picking up steam and had balls. So then with contracts coming up in 2011 they had us building tons of machines preparing for a strike i mean there were dozers everywhere build and just sitting on lots waiting to go. We had 2 shifts working 12 hr days pumping out 15 a day. We even had companies employees down on our jobs we were forced to train them in case we did strike. So this is where they messed your talking a basic D9 is around 900k D10 1.2 Mil D11 2 MILL. We were doing 2 D9s a day 2 10s and 2 11s each shift give or take 1 or 2.
> 
> So now you have all this stock and then coal took a huge hit and stuff sat and sat it back fired on them. The worker ended paying the price. I can remember going into work and telling the young guns slow down you are working our self out of a job and they were so naive they didnt be leave me. Well guess what they dropped 2nd shift and went to first shift only and they were the first ones to go. That worked for a year or 2 then guys on first shift were starting to get moved or laid off. Thats my take on it.


I don't feel like deleting most of it out on my phone.

What happened to the "an honest day's work for an honest day's pay" in your whole "slow down you're working us out of a job" mentality?

The attitude you displayed is the attitude I take issue to with unions. There is at least one person in this thread that has a very nice Union staffed shop and is doing very well. Another that's a union member working for an all (or at least predominately) Union company. Guess what, they both/all put in many many hours to get where they're at and what they have.

Your attitude is the reason many outside people judge unions the way they do. Protection for lazy people. Until I got to know the members that I've worked with outside union jobs, and someone that owns a Union shop, my mentality was exactly that. But it only takes a few people with your attitude, to make many think like I used to.

Talk about thread topic creep.


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I would have loved to read it...I've also got a bridge for sale.
> 
> My dad had that setup on our one and only GMC...mounted left of the steering column. I hated it because I bashed my knee on it every time I got into it.
> 
> ...


Lol...mine had a huge foam pad taped around it after the first "incident" damn near dislocated my knee...I forgot about that.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Well to get back on topic. I have decided i am going with Boss. I just talked with the dealer i will be allowed in the shop during install i can even help out if i want. So i will be taking pictures through out the install to help in event i need to work on something in the field. They also informed me that during snow events they have cell phones that are on 24hrs. He also said they keep most every part you would ever need in stock and ready to go. So with all that said i am going Boss DXT now if i go steel polly or stainless not sure yet leaning stainless just cause im not a fan of the red. Also not sure on wings yet or if i will update the controller to joystick. 

Now i just need to decide if i want to tail gate or vbox spreader.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> Well to get back on topic. I have decided i am going with Boss. I just talked with the dealer i will be allowed in the shop during install i can even help out if i want. So i will be taking pictures through out the install to help in event i need to work on something in the field. They also informed me that during snow events they have cell phones that are on 24hrs. He also said they keep most every part you would ever need in stock and ready to go. So with all that said i am going Boss DXT now if i go steel polly or stainless not sure yet leaning stainless just cause im not a fan of the red. Also not sure on wings yet or if i will update the controller to joystick.
> 
> Now i just need to decide if i want to tail gate or vbox spreader.


Really? Which dealer is that who was no problem with you in the bay? Just curious.

As to the controller, ask to see the joystick first. It is a MASSIVE unit that you won't be dash mounting. It is nothing like the Fisher/Western one.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> Well to get back on topic. I have decided i am going with Boss. I just talked with the dealer i will be allowed in the shop during install i can even help out if i want. So i will be taking pictures through out the install to help in event i need to work on something in the field. They also informed me that during snow events they have cell phones that are on 24hrs. He also said they keep most every part you would ever need in stock and ready to go. So with all that said i am going Boss DXT now if i go steel polly or stainless not sure yet leaning stainless just cause im not a fan of the red. Also not sure on wings yet or if i will update the controller to joystick.
> 
> Now i just need to decide if i want to tail gate or vbox spreader.


Don't get Poly and get wings.
See if the dealer has a plow he can hook up to a truck and if you can try each type of controller.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

cwren2472 said:


> Really? Which dealer is that who was no problem with you in the bay? Just curious.
> 
> As to the controller, ask to see the joystick first. It is a MASSIVE unit that you won't be dash mounting. It is nothing like the Fisher/Western one.


I will let you know after the install i don't want to publicly announce the dealer and end up they say no cause i made a big deal about it. I'm not getting the plow put on till the end of September. But will defiantly post some pictures of the installation then.

That's good to know about the joystick i was thinking about mounting it to the center console taking it on and off as needed. I m guessing this isn't a option if its that big


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

JT&SONS said:


> Well to get back on topic. I have decided i am going with Boss. I just talked with the dealer i will be allowed in the shop during install i can even help out if i want. So i will be taking pictures through out the install to help in event i need to work on something in the field. They also informed me that during snow events they have cell phones that are on 24hrs. He also said they keep most every part you would ever need in stock and ready to go. So with all that said i am going Boss DXT now if i go steel polly or stainless not sure yet leaning stainless just cause im not a fan of the red. Also not sure on wings yet or if i will update the controller to joystick.
> 
> Now i just need to decide if i want to tail gate or vbox spreader.


You can order a custom painted plow from boss,


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> That's good to know about the joystick i was thinking about mounting it to the center console taking it on and off as needed. I m guessing this isn't a option if its that big


I don't have one in stock anymore, but as I recall, the thing is around 8" tall overall with a base around 4" square


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> You can order a custom painted plow from boss,


You can?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> You can?


You can?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> I don't have one in stock anymore, but as I recall, the thing is around 8" tall overall with a base around 4" square


Nevermind...


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> I will let you know after the install i don't want to publicly announce the dealer and end up they say no cause i made a big deal about it. I'm not getting the plow put on till the end of September. But will defiantly post some pictures of the installation then.
> 
> That's good to know about the joystick i was thinking about mounting it to the center console taking it on and off as needed. I m guessing this isn't a option if its that big


Don't even bother just get a hand held or this is what you'll look like... You'll end up building your wrist up even stronger...


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

BossPlow2010 said:


> You can order a custom painted plow from boss,


Wow I'm surprised they would allow that. Whats the color options?


cwren2472 said:


> I don't have one in stock anymore, but as I recall, the thing is around 8" tall overall with a base around 4" square


 Wow that is huge


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Don't even bother just get a hand held or this is what yoully look like... You'll end up building your wrist up even stronger...


LOL that's to funny


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> Wow that is huge


Nevermind.

Beat Mark to it again!


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You'll end up building your wrist up even stronger...


Wait, that's bad?


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> Wait, that's bad?


No

To admit it, Yes.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> Whats the color options?


Red and Pink. But you have to wait about 4 years for the Pink.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

cwren2472 said:


> Red and Pink. But you have to wait about 4 years for the Pink.


LOL real men wear pink


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

It's too bad some of you think 8" is huge...


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

And don't bother trying to post photographic evidence. We'll just call "file foto."


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)




----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Those look like centimeters. You must have borrowed that ruler from Markus, that explains your confusion.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Those look like centimeters. You must have borrowed that ruler from Markus, that explains your confusion.


Ironic that you would recognize that...


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I'll try to get the train back on the tracks...


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I haven't stocked that thing in, like, 5 years. That was some darn good guessing.

Oh, and @Mark Oomkes, that would be what an "inch" looks like


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Hate to be the bearer of bad news...that isn't huge.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Hate to be the bearer of bad news...that isn't huge.


Sure


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

cwren2472 said:


> You can?


Yes


Mark Oomkes said:


> You can?


Yes


JT&SONS said:


> Wow I'm surprised they would allow that. Whats the color options?


custom


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

That's nice...


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I'm pretty sure those were specials for a trade show. The manual from BOSS outlining the proper usage of their logo _and color _is 12 pages long.
It seems unlikely that they'd be ok with someone ordering a new straight blade painted "Fisher Yellow"


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm pretty sure those were specials for a trade show. The manual from BOSS outlining the proper usage of their logo _and color _is 12 pages long.
> It seems unlikely that they'd be ok with someone ordering a new straight blade painted "Fisher Yellow"
> 
> View attachment 183176
> ...


You're right, I was wrong, I guess those were promotional plows.
I'd still try and get one in @Mark Oomkes green


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> You're right, I was wrong, I guess those were promotional plows.
> I'd still try and get one in @Mark Oomkes green


Like this one????










I love that shade of Oomkes green.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I'd still try and get one in @Mark Oomkes green


Now THAT would be an exception worth making! I'll see if I can pull some strings


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Like this one????
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stormy Kromer...Thumbs Up


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> Now THAT would be an exception worth making! I'll see if I can pull some strings


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> It's too bad some of you think 8" is huge...


They must have small hands and feet....... Read/ heard some are carny's and they probably smell like cabbage.....


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Do not


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Lol


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

@cwren2472 always embellishing his size

Get the window mount for your joystick, leaves your shifting, coffee hand free....and you don't have to get in and out diagnosing problems...


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> @cwren2472 always embellishing his size
> 
> Get the window mount for your joystick, leaves your shifting, coffee hand free.
> 
> View attachment 183187


There's no room for my left knee with rig like that.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mr.Markus said:


> @cwren2472 always embellishing his size
> 
> Get the window mount for your joystick, leaves your shifting, coffee hand free....and you don't have to get in and out diagnosing problems...
> 
> View attachment 183187


I feel claustrophobic just looking at that. I have to go open a window. Hold on, BRB


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Mr.Markus said:


> @cwren2472 always embellishing his size
> 
> Get the window mount for your joystick, leaves your shifting, coffee hand free....and you don't have to get in and out diagnosing problems...
> 
> View attachment 183187


What if you're left handed and you can do just about anything with your right hand except steer a truck? I get behind the wheel and feel like Ricky Bobby, I don't know what to do with my hands


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> @cwren2472 always embellishing his size
> 
> Get the window mount for your joystick, leaves your shifting, coffee hand free....and you don't have to get in and out diagnosing problems...
> 
> View attachment 183187


Ughhh operating on the left... That's as bad as the Snowrator...


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Ughhh operating on the left... That's as bad as the Snowrator...


I think Canadian trucks are right hand drive. That probably explains it.


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

cwren2472 said:


> I think Canadian trucks are right hand drive. That probably explains it.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Oops, wrong thread...


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Wow, it is really hard to delete a photo from a post...


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

JMHConstruction said:


> What if you're left handed and you can do just about anything with your right hand except steer a truck? I get behind the wheel and feel like Ricky Bobby, I don't know what to do with my hands


The, I don't know what to do with my hands. So many options there, but well, gonna be semi decent tonight.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)




----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> View attachment 183195


Um, there's a third leg there, where's the rest of the kid? And even bikes have GVW rattings. And I'm sure they are exceeding it.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Randall Ave said:


> Um, there's a third leg there, where's the rest of the kid? And even bikes have GVW rattings. And I'm sure they are exceeding it.


Under the Dads shirt


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

JT&SONS said:


> Under the Dads shirt


Home many laws is we breaking there?


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Thought maybe his wife didn't know she was pregnant yet...


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Sorry.....


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mr.Markus said:


> Sorry.....


For what, when the kids foot gets caught on the bikes chain. Or if dad dumps the thing, well I ain't going there.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

OK plow goes on next week. Still trying to decide between 8.2 with wings or 9.2 with out. price is 100 more for the 9.2 but 750 for wings.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

9.2 with wingsThumbs Up


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

How easy are boss wings to take on and off?
Are they like the cheap SAM wings?


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

JMHConstruction said:


> How easy are boss wings to take on and off?
> Are they like the cheap SAM wings?


The BOSS wings are much, much nicer than the SAM wings. But she should be at 3 times the price. You get what you pay for.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> The BOSS wings are much, much nicer than the SAM wings. But she should be at 3 times the price. You get what you pay for.


Do you just pull a pin to remove them like the SAM?

I wasn't recommending the SAM wings, I'm just familiar with them, and not BOSS.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JMHConstruction said:


> Do you just pull a pin to remove them like the SAM?
> 
> I wasn't recommending the SAM wings, I'm just familiar with them, and not BOSS.


Aboot 2min


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> OK plow goes on next week. Still trying to decide between 8.2 with wings or 9.2 with out. price is 100 more for the 9.2 but 750 for wings.


This may help decide:
9.2 Moldboard tips are closer to the ground when retracted, this can pose a dragging problem when entering or exiting some property's. You can 'Bump" the moldboard with the controller forward which takes care of this. Lifting the pickup is not a cure because the munt needs to be at a specific height to main the plow geometry.
8.2 Moldboard tips are higher when retracted and less likely to drag when entering or exiting some property's. If you were to acquire a property with drive thru's you can remove the wings to give you more room for those tight areas.
Boss wings are kicked forward about 22degrees which helps reduce the amount of trail off and gives a huge advantage when you're relocating snow while in the scoop position.
When I bought mine I was on the fence too and went with a 8.2 with wings which IMO was the right thing to do for the type of work I did.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Aboot 2min


Thanks peabody...


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

JMHConstruction said:


> 9.2 with wingsThumbs Up


Might be a little heavy for my 250


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

BUFF said:


> This may help decide:
> 9.2 Moldboard tips are closer to the ground when retracted, this can pose a dragging problem when entering or exiting some property's. You can 'Bump" the moldboard with the controller forward which takes care of this. Lifting the pickup is not a cure because the munt needs to be at a specific height to main the plow geometry.
> 8.2 Moldboard tips are higher when retracted and less likely to drag when entering or exiting some property's. If you were to acquire a property with drive thru's you can remove the wings to give you more room for those tight areas.
> Boss wings are kicked forward about 22degrees which helps reduce the amount of trail off and gives a huge advantage when you're relocating snow while in the scoop position.
> When I bought mine I was on the fence too and went with a 8.2 with wings which IMO was the right thing to do for the type of work I did.


Thank you. 8.2 with wings was what I was thinking.

Maybe my question wasn't very clear.

Sorry if there was some confusion.

Im trying to decide between 8.2 with wings 9.2 with no wings.


----------



## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Also trying to decide between. 

Stainless vs Poly vs Steal. 

And yes my dealer loves me I can't make my mind up for anything. Still haven't pulled the trigger on a truck yet either. :hammerhead:


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mild steel.

Poly is junk

Stainless is cool, but a waste of money. IMO


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JT&SONS said:


> Also trying to decide between.
> 
> Stainless vs Poly vs Steal.
> 
> And yes my dealer loves me I can't make my mind up for anything. Still haven't pulled the trigger on a truck yet either. :hammerhead:


I went with steel, poly fades and turns pink and SS is just a skin. Both Poly and SS moldboard need to be replaced if damage where steel you just cut out the damage and weld in a piece. All will rust unless they're washed after every event.


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## Hoshiwaa15 (Jan 4, 2017)

Between the 2 favorites (boss and westetn) I think the deciding factor SHOULD be dealer support. I like Boss and I like Western but the Western dealer in my city is terrible. The boss dealer is open until midnight and will do anything to get you going. As far as plow material I always choose steel, if something does happen you can weld it up and keep going.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

Love mom and pop shops.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

When I bought my '15 2500, I was going to go with a Fisher 9.5' XtremeV. My dealer kind of talked me into a 8.5' XtremeV. I'm glad he did. I have one driveway that I have to have my plow in full scoop (7', 1" width) to get into and plow. Just something to think about if you have any tight driveways to do.

I've been on the fence about getting wings. I could definitely use them most of the time. However, there's times I'd have to take them off (like above mentioned driveway). I don't know if them helping me in some spots would be worth the hassle of taking them off in other spots.

See the problems I got in my life? :dancing:

NYH1.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

If your debate is 8'2" with wings or 9'2" without, absolutely 100% hands down get the 8'2", unless you are doing a ton of wind rowing, or have all hourly work. And in either of these cases, a v plow isn't the right answer in the first place.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

John_DeereGreen said:


> If your debate is 8'2" with wings or 9'2" without, absolutely 100% hands down get the 8'2", unless you are doing a ton of wind rowing, or have all hourly work. And in either of these cases, a v plow isn't the right answer in the first place.


What's wrong with using a v plow for wind rowing?

NYH1.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

NYH1 said:


> What's wrong with using a v plow for wind rowing?
> 
> NYH1.


The hinge slows the flow of snow down. If you want to windrow fast, a straight blade is where it's at.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

John_DeereGreen said:


> The hinge slows the flow of snow down. If you want to windrow fast, a straight blade is where it's at.


I can agree wet snow doesn't roll as easy but with dry snow there's minimal to no difference.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

John_DeereGreen said:


> The hinge slows the flow of snow down. If you want to windrow fast, a straight blade is where it's at.


I've had no issues windrowing fluffy lake effect or heavy wet nor' easter snow. However, the hinge doesn't stick out to much on the XtremeV Plows like on others.

NYH1.


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## JT&SONS (Jun 17, 2018)

So I just got back those guys busted there rear ends to get me done. I took a few pictures. Time to get some rest and be ready to salt tomorrow.

I ended up going 8'2 with wings and they sold me stainless for steel price.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Nice! 

NYH1.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Yes, a hinge will reduce windrowing ability, but not enough to outweigh the other efficiencies a V provides.

I think @kimber750 said it best...a V can be a straight blade, but a straight can't be a V.


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