# how to prime a 97 international 4700



## stokerlife

first some background..
this truck has not run in 3 years. mid winter 2009-2010 the batteries died and has not ran since. this summer i replaced all 3 batteries and the fuel filter, and also put a couple bottles of winter 911 defreezer in the left tank, right tank cap will not open. did not drain old fuel, just tried starting it on the old. it sounded as if it were trying to start for a second but i think it burned through all the fuel in the line and thats it. after that i pumped the primer pump for a few minutes and tried again but it didnt seem to do any good.

questions..
1. how do i prime it?
2. how do i get the filter on without a bubble if its upside down? (no matter how quickly i flip it and screw it on i cant seem to keep air out of it, is there a trick to this?)
3. anything else i should know?

thanks


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## stokerlife

also i must add it has a DT466E


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## abbottfarm

When you primed it, did the primer button/level get hard to work before you tried to fire it?


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## stokerlife

No, I didnt know how long it should take. I have seen on other kinds of trucks it only takes like 15 pumps before it gets hard. I must have pumped it 10 minutes


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## abbottfarm

From my experience owning big trucks you have to prime it until the primer gets hard. Not familiar with that engine, but it may be worth a shot using a starting aid ether or wd-40 works ok, if you'd rather use something other then either but I would only do that if priming it until the primer is hard doesn't work, but also you should prime it up again before trying a starting aid.


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## stokerlife

I will try it, thanks


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## abbottfarm

Good luck! Post your results.


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## stokerlife

http://akroncanton.craigslist.org/cto/3525676750.html more info on the truck can be found here, maybe it will help?


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## abbottfarm

nothing super helpful there, I would try to prime it up hard, give it a snort of starting fluid and see what happens. Do you know if it has glowplugs on it?


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## stokerlife

Ok. I dont know, I would think it does


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## abbottfarm

if it does have glow plug you will want to disable them before using starting fluid on it, just so you know in case you didn't already.


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## stokerlife

No, I have not used any starting fluid on it because I heard it is bad for a diesel, but if I do I will be sure to disable them.


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## stokerlife

why should they be disabled?


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## alldayrj

My 1987 466 needed all the lines cracked at the injectors to work out all the air. It should be spraying out when cranking the key. Mine wasnt and i had to rebuild the injector pump. 
The primer could be bad and need to be replaced if its not building pressure
I don't think it has glow plugs. Mine doesnt. 
The diesel should be fine. It doesnt go bad quick like gas


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## clark lawn

Is it mechanical or electronic injection? There are no glow plugs on that engine. Are you getting oil pressure when cranking? If the primer pump isn't getting hard then you need to check for a cracked fuel line. Check the pickup tube also. What fuel filter is upside down? Never seen one like that. Check that all out and let me know and ill know which way to send you with it.


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## KBTConst

Years ago When I worked for my father in law we had some guys over the yrs that was not the smartest guys on the block and would always run the trucks and loaders out of fuel ( to lazy to check the fuel level) on one of the loaders the primer was bad and would take forever to prime the engine and instead of my father in law just going out and buying a new one he told us to get a old inner tube and cut the valve stem out get a hose clamp put it on the fill spout of the loader clamp it down and put about 60 pounds of air in the tank the air would push the fuel threw the filter to the injectors and then just crack each injector till its pumping out a steady stream of fuel it worked every time. then after the machine was running he would tell us that it was an old Indian trick and I would say I never knew the indians had diesel motor's back then you learn something new every day I learned alot from him and sorry he is gone now that is the kind of things that the kids now days never learn. Sorry for the long post hope this will help.


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## RJ lindblom

One it is primed to the injector pump, move to injectors. Crack open the fitting one injector at a time, crank the engine unti there is fuel, tighten the fitting, the move to the next cylinder. If all goes well you can do 4 and get the engine to run enough to run the air out of the last two cylinders. If not do the last two.

I'd first put some clean fuel in. Making sure the pick up tunes were clear. New fuel filter installed. Primed up to the injector pump. I like the idea of the innner tube and air pressure.


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## Landcare - Mont

Some of these have a bleed just before the injector pump. Open it up and pump the primer until fuel comes out there; then close it and see if it starts. You're sure there's still fuel in the tank?


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## hatefulmechanic

The advice in here scares me. A lot.


A '97 DT466E is going to be a HUEI engine, not an injection pump. It is the same injection system used on a 7.3PSD, if that makes it easier to understand.

First you need to verify fuel in the fuel filter bowl, which is sent through the fuel lines and the primer pump, most of them are electric. The primer is going to be manual on most of them as well. It will likely NOT get hard when priming, easiest way to see for fuel is to pull the filter out, prime and watch for fuel.

Sitting three years is highly problematic, honestly I would drain both tanks give some fresh fuel, and get fuel to the engine.

The transfer pump is likely seized also.


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## jasonv

My experience with diesels is that they just absolutely HATE the cold. My question is whether or not the thing is making any smoke. If it is making any smoke at all, it is probably getting [some] fuel and just needs a little help with ignition. Try to figure out some way to warm it up if you can. If the engine is nice and toasty warm before you try starting it, I guarantee it will be much easier to start.

If there's no smoke coming from it at all, then you almost definitely have a fuel delivery problem.

KBTConst: everybody knows the "pressurize the fuel tank" trick... good for everything that can't suck air. Snowmobiles with mechanical (vacuum) fuel pumps, diesel machines with tanks lower than the fuel pump (easier to gravity bleed equipment with tank above pump), I've even used this trick to bleed furnace lines from buried tanks.

Good of you for mentioning it though! Thumbs Up


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## clark lawn

Just reread this, first make sure you are getting fuel second make sure you have oil pressure when cranking and then on the back side of the front cover on the drivers side there is a sensor. Pull that sensor and have someone crank the engine to see if you have oil to there. Next check the plug on the IPR, it is under the HPOP. They have a tendency to go bad. If that all looks good then you may need to get it towed in somewhere that can hook up a computer to it.


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## White Gardens

hatefulmechanic;1561924 said:


> The advice in here scares me. A lot.
> 
> A '97 DT466E is going to be a HUEI engine, not an injection pump. It is the same injection system used on a 7.3PSD, if that makes it easier to understand.
> 
> First you need to verify fuel in the fuel filter bowl, which is sent through the fuel lines and the primer pump, most of them are electric. The primer is going to be manual on most of them as well. It will likely NOT get hard when priming, easiest way to see for fuel is to pull the filter out, prime and watch for fuel.
> 
> Sitting three years is highly problematic, honestly I would drain both tanks give some fresh fuel, and get fuel to the engine.
> 
> The transfer pump is likely seized also.


Ditto on the fuel.

After 3 years I wouldn't be surprised of a bunch of water in the tank along with algae.....

.......................


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## stokerlife

jasonv;1561977 said:


> My experience with diesels is that they just absolutely HATE the cold. My question is whether or not the thing is making any smoke. If it is making any smoke at all, it is probably getting [some] fuel and just needs a little help with ignition. Try to figure out some way to warm it up if you can. If the engine is nice and toasty warm before you try starting it, I guarantee it will be much easier to start.
> 
> If there's no smoke coming from it at all, then you almost definitely have a fuel delivery problem.
> 
> KBTConst: everybody knows the "pressurize the fuel tank" trick... good for everything that can't suck air. Snowmobiles with mechanical (vacuum) fuel pumps, diesel machines with tanks lower than the fuel pump (easier to gravity bleed equipment with tank above pump), I've even used this trick to bleed furnace lines from buried tanks.
> 
> Good of you for mentioning it though! Thumbs Up


there was some white smoke when cranking it over, i was told that means there is air trapt in the lines


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## K&L Salting

The 466e can have injector problems. One way to check and see is to plug the engine block heater in, wait and hour or so and see if it starts.


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## jasonv

stokerlife;1562288 said:


> there was some white smoke when cranking it over, i was told that means there is air trapt in the lines


The old David Brown in my 580 will puff white smoke all day long and never even kick on a cold day if I try to crank it without heating the engine first.

A cold diesel is a true pain in the a**.

If it loses prime (which happens whenever you change the fuel filters), it can get to this partly-primed state where it will push SOME fuel to the injectors, but not enough to start. Then it will white smoke even if its warm. The easiest way to get the DB past this state is to loosen off the high pressure lines between the pump and the injectors and crank it for a bit. I.e., remove the resistance of the injectors in order to make it possible for the pump to push the air through.

Admittedly, my diesel experience is limited to these older fully mechanical engines (and frikkin SMART -- what a total pain in the a** those are), but the way I figure it is that a diesel requires fuel, air, compression, and heat. The heat is usually provided by the compression, but when really cold, it may just not be enough. If nothing is broken on it, then it should be just a matter of getting that fuel into the system and ensuring that there is enough heat to produce combustion.

Does this engine have open injectors each driven straight off multiple ports on the pump? Or does it use a pressurized rail with electric solenoid injectors? If the latter, a couple of simple diagnostics are to test the pressure on the rail, and put a scope on the wires running the injectors. The scope should show a positive voltage every two engine revolutions for each injector. If it has adequate pressure in the rail, adequate heat to ignite, and the scope yields good results, then its either compression or bad injectors. Sitting for years as it has, I would be considering the possibility of stuck valves.


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## White Gardens

Fuel, Fuel, Fuel, Fuel First.

Any diesel that sits for 3 years is going to have bad fuel in the tank and even possibly algae. The tanks need to be drained first and inspect the fuel that is removed. If any algae appears to be presents, drop the tanks and clean.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5668792_remove-algae-diesel-fuel-tanks.html

...........


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## hatefulmechanic

hatefulmechanic;1561924 said:


> The advice in here scares me. A lot.
> 
> A '97 DT466E is going to be a HUEI engine, not an injection pump. It is the same injection system used on a 7.3PSD, if that makes it easier to understand.
> 
> First you need to verify fuel in the fuel filter bowl, which is sent through the fuel lines and the primer pump, most of them are electric. The primer is going to be manual on most of them as well. It will likely NOT get hard when priming, easiest way to see for fuel is to pull the filter out, prime and watch for fuel.
> 
> Sitting three years is highly problematic, honestly I would drain both tanks give some fresh fuel, and get fuel to the engine.
> 
> The transfer pump is likely seized also.


Does anyone read?



jasonv;1562730 said:


> The old David Brown in my 580 will puff white smoke all day long and never even kick on a cold day if I try to crank it without heating the engine first.
> 
> A cold diesel is a true pain in the a**.
> 
> If it loses prime (which happens whenever you change the fuel filters), it can get to this partly-primed state where it will push SOME fuel to the injectors, but not enough to start. Then it will white smoke even if its warm. The easiest way to get the DB past this state is to loosen off the high pressure lines between the pump and the injectors and crank it for a bit. I.e., remove the resistance of the injectors in order to make it possible for the pump to push the air through.
> 
> Admittedly, my diesel experience is limited to these older fully mechanical engines (and frikkin SMART -- what a total pain in the a** those are), but the way I figure it is that a diesel requires fuel, air, compression, and heat. The heat is usually provided by the compression, but when really cold, it may just not be enough. If nothing is broken on it, then it should be just a matter of getting that fuel into the system and ensuring that there is enough heat to produce combustion.
> 
> Does this engine have open injectors each driven straight off multiple ports on the pump? Or does it use a pressurized rail with electric solenoid injectors? If the latter, a couple of simple diagnostics are to test the pressure on the rail, and put a scope on the wires running the injectors. The scope should show a positive voltage every two engine revolutions for each injector. If it has adequate pressure in the rail, adequate heat to ignite, and the scope yields good results, then its either compression or bad injectors. Sitting for years as it has, I would be considering the possibility of stuck valves.


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## matzke3

I would eliminate the entire fuel supply first. As mentioned above its going to be ugly. The dts all had a compucheck fitting on the filter housing. It looks kinda like a hydraulic coupler. I went and bought a 12v atv sprayer put a compucheck in place of the wand, filled it with clean diesel and bam you have a 60 psi primer. Cap the trucks supply line and youve solved your fuel quality and prime issues. At least to get it running and go from there. If its smoking FUEL smoke at all I would rule out ecm, cam sensor, and heui issues for now. 
Matz-


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## jasonv

hatefulmechanic;1562751 said:


> Does anyone read?





> same injection system used on a 7.3PSD


That's nice. WTF is a "7.3PSD"??? Or an "HUEI"???

Fact remains that the FUEL NEEDS TO BE FULL IN THE LINES WITHOUT AIR BUBBLES.


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## matzke3

Heui- hydraulic actuated electronic unit injected.
Im referring the the high pressure oil system for injection. They typically work or they do not. If its in question they take aprrox 800 psi to fire.
EDIT- safety issue. The high pressure system is capable of deadhead pressures up to 4000 PSI. If its going to be check with a guage it is imperative that the guage and test line can hadle those pressures.


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## jasonv

matzke3;1562779 said:


> Heui- hydraulic actuated electronic unit injected.
> Im referring the the high pressure oil system for injection. They typically work or they do not. If its in question they take aprrox 800 psi to fire.
> EDIT- safety issue. The high pressure system is capable of deadhead pressures up to 4000 PSI. If its going to be check with a guage it is imperative that the guage and test line can hadle those pressures.


That sounds a lot like technobabble for hydraulic driven fuel pump, pressurized rail, electric solenoid injector valves.... ?? But yeah, it goes without saying that the gauge must be good for the maximum pressure that the system you are testing is capable of producing.


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## clark lawn

7.3PSD is a 7.3 Power Stroke Diesel

Guess we aren't going to get any more info


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## BigLou80

hatefulmechanic;1562751 said:


> Does anyone read?


Obviously not, they are still talking about injector pumps.


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## jasonv

BigLou80;1563518 said:


> Obviously not, they are still talking about injector pumps.


Guess what? You can't make pressure without a pump and without something for the pump to pump.


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## jasonv

clark lawn;1563169 said:


> 7.3PSD is a 7.3 Power Stroke Diesel
> 
> Guess we aren't going to get any more info


How exactly is a powdurpuff supposed to make anything more clear?


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## hatefulmechanic

jasonv;1562796 said:


> That sounds a lot like technobabble for hydraulic driven fuel pump, pressurized rail, electric solenoid injector valves.... ?? But yeah, it goes without saying that the gauge must be good for the maximum pressure that the system you are testing is capable of producing.


Initially I was not going to get into a pissing match, but it is fairly clear you have either no knowledge of how a system like this works, are an old school mechanical injection system kind of person, or just really likes to show their ignorance on the internet with completely misguided diagnostic approaches or poor advice for a system that does not even apply to the vehicle in question.

Simply put, a HEUI (or HUEI, depending on manufacturers designation) system operates with a fuel "rail" surrounding the injector, in Internationals (and Ford)'s case it is a cast galley that goes through the cylinder head that is fed from the filter housing, which has a low pressure fuel transfer pump feeding those from the tank. The injector has a high pressure oil feed which feeds into the head also, when the solenoid on the injector is fired from the FICM (fuel injector control module) it allows high pressure engine oil (up to 4000psi in some instances) to force the intensifier piston down, which compresses the diesel fuel, and atomizes it out the tip.

I can go on and on about the operational strategy here, but the fact you continue to reference fuel injection lines, cracking feed line nuts, etc proves the fact you have no understanding this is NOT a mechanical injected engine.

Seriously, I am not doing this to be a dick, but holy crap the amount of comments regarding this engine being a mechanical pump injection system are ridiculous

Diagram of fuel system on a DT466E/DT530E.


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## hatefulmechanic

Its simple diagnostics:

If there is no fuel coming to the filter, its from the housing back, meaning supply pump, restriction in line, or crap fuel. The fact the truck has been sitting for three years remains, this truck is going to have issues that a simple bleed and battery replacement will not address.


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## BigLou80

jasonv;1563578 said:


> Guess what? You can't make pressure without a pump and without something for the pump to pump.


you should learn about hydraulic multiplication of force. It's what makes your floor jack and these injectors work. The only pump on these engines have is a high pressure oil pump


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## gafred

After you drain the tanks it will need algea killer added, FPPF Killem, kathon biocide diesel. drain water seperator if it has one.

You can start it and run it without load on WD 40, hair spary(flammable kind), liquid wrench they are easier on pistons comapred to ether. 

good luck with it...


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## clark lawn

BigLou80;1564935 said:


> you should learn about hydraulic multiplication of force. It's what makes your floor jack and these injectors work. The only pump on these engines have is a high pressure oil pump


Not true, on the side of the HPOP is the transfer pump. It is driven off of the HPOP and is replaceable. They do fail but I probably change one of them for every 10 HPOPs. New one comes with the oil pump.


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## Trapper-Randy

Dump all of the old fuel and put in new fuel then bleed all the line of air.Anything else is just wasting time!


T-R


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