# Tractors and Loaders



## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

I came across this article and thought that I would share. I found it packed full of information and very useful.

https://vsinnovation.com/pages/ag-tractors-vs-wheeled-loaders-for-commercial-snow-plowing


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Thanks for the link, very good read. 

Very interesting on the efficiency of wing plows vs push boxes. 

Might need to rethink the tractor vs loader next season, right now I still need another loader.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Good article, full of info. The only thing it doesnt incorporate into it is summer use. If you can utilize a piece of equipment summer and winter you are making profit with it year round. If you were a farmer and used the tractor in the summer and plowed during the winter thats great or a landscaper that could use one or the other summer and winter.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Data, I like data....

To me the big eye-opener was the efficiency of the wing plow versus a push box (4:1). I don't know if I would realize that at an airport, since all my pushes are long and straight, with no stacking. Hopefully, they will update after this year.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Good article, full of info. The only thing it doesnt incorporate into it is summer use. If you can utilize a piece of equipment summer and winter you are making profit with it year round. If you were a farmer and used the tractor in the summer and plowed during the winter thats great or a landscaper that could use one or the other summer and winter.


At the end of the article it seems to mention that they utilise the tractors for wide area mowing in the summer and use their loaders in their yards. I guess it depends on how you are using it or what you are looking for. For example, Mark still needs a loader even though the numbers seem to be better for a tractor.
Thanks for posting the article @MIDTOWNPC


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

LapeerLandscape said:


> Good article, full of info. The only thing it doesnt incorporate into it is summer use. If you can utilize a piece of equipment summer and winter you are making profit with it year round. If you were a farmer and used the tractor in the summer and plowed during the winter thats great or a landscaper that could use one or the other summer and winter.


I go with: I'll make enough money with it in the winter that it can sit for the summer
Almost all my tractors are winter only. 
I took one out today just to move it. Brought a bucket to the site so I could do some pot holes.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

The first time I hired a tractor as a sub I asked him to be at the site for 4am so he could have it done by 8am. I showed up at 5am to see if he needed any explanation or if I could help with truck. He was almost done! I got out and he said what’s wrong. I said I’ve bought trucks and I and ... I and I can’t believe I.. I’m going to go get us coffee that is all I’m good for now. Ever since I just get the coffee and call the tractors. Lol


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> At the end of the article it seems to mention that they utilise the tractors for wide area mowing in the summer and use their loaders in their yards. I guess it depends on how you are using it or what you are looking for. For example, Mark still needs a loader even though the numbers seem to be better for a tractor.
> Thanks for posting the article @MIDTOWNPC


Lapeer needed the Cliff's notes...he has the attention span of a fruit fly.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

MIDTOWNPC said:


> I came across this article and thought that I would share. I found it packed full of information and very useful.
> 
> https://vsinnovation.com/pages/ag-tractors-vs-wheeled-loaders-for-commercial-snow-plowing


Yes, thanks for the share. Wonderfully written and very informative.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

LapeerLandscape said:


> If you were a farmer and used the tractor in the summer and plowed during the winter thats great or a landscaper that could use one or the other summer and winter.


I only see one issue.

Most winter contracts start in November in our area... we are still shelling corn in November. Be tough to put machines on lots when they are hooked to carts or chisel plows.

And a question for @MIDTOWNPC what series is the loader tractor in the pic? Just wondering how big of a machine you can even use before they just get "too big" to be productive. I can see where an 8 series deere could be super productive in a warehouse parking lot, but not sure about a strip mall just due to overall size and length of the machine and all the people that have to get bread and milk... Just basing on how they are to drive in populated areas when we are farming with them.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> I only see one issue.
> 
> Most winter contracts start in November in our area... we are still shelling corn in November. Be tough to put machines on lots when they are hooked to carts or chisel plows.
> 
> And a question for @MIDTOWNPC what series is the loader tractor in the pic? Just wondering how big of a machine you can even use before they just get "too big" to be productive. I can see where an 8 series deere could be super productive in a warehouse parking lot, but not sure about a strip mall just due to overall size and length of the machine and all the people that have to get bread and milk... Just basing on how they are to drive in populated areas when we are farming with them.


Question for @JD Dave


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> For example, Mark still needs a loader even though the numbers seem to be better for a tractor.


I need the loader just because of what we are plowing with it. Really need the stacking ability and a tractor won't do it.

Regarding tractor mounts, the OEM ones are far better than some I've seen. The HLA 4 arm, 2 cylinder provides a parallel lift of the plow and will raise it extremely high.

Compared to the donkey Richard setup that uses a chain that a lot of guys around here use, the HLA is far superior. They don't lift as high and the plow won't lift equally so it's easier to catch curbs on the trailing edge. Never understood what the fascination with them is. Same reason we use 4 arm backblades.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> I only see one issue.
> 
> Most winter contracts start in November in our area... we are still shelling corn in November. Be tough to put machines on lots when they are hooked to carts or chisel plow.


Another factor...here in Central IL with the high quality of ground we have here in general the farmers could care less about snow removal.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Philbilly2 said:


> I only see one issue.
> 
> Most winter contracts start in November in our area... we are still shelling corn in November. Be tough to put machines on lots when they are hooked to carts or chisel plows.
> 
> And a question for @MIDTOWNPC what series is the loader tractor in the pic? Just wondering how big of a machine you can even use before they just get "too big" to be productive. I can see where an 8 series deere could be super productive in a warehouse parking lot, but not sure about a strip mall just due to overall size and length of the machine and all the people that have to get bread and milk... Just basing on how they are to drive in populated areas when we are farming with them.


. Front 3 point hitches allow blades to go from field to plowing very quickly. Most of our equipment only works in winter as we just don't need that many tractors on the farm. We generally can leave our buggy and tillage tractor on farm duty until harvest is finished as we can handle most storms without those tractors. If a blizzard is coming we won't be combining anyways. The landscapers around here who didn't embrace tractors or loaders aren't in business anymore. I'm talking larger contractors not small ones as they just can't compete with efficiencies. I remember when I first came online around 2007. So many people told me farm tractors wouldn't work and my dad started plowing commercially with them in 1969 so I know they did. The problem is now tractor prices have gone through the roof and construction loaders haven't seemed to have gone up in price near as much. After buying my first real loaders last year and seeing the productivity I don't see myself buying anymore snow only tractors.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave said:


> After buying my first real loaders last year and seeing the productivity I don't see myself buying anymore snow only tractors.


Interesting...I don't have hard numbers like they do. Well, I do kinda but just haven't looked at them and compared.

But my gut tells me that the maneuverability of a loader compared to a tractor makes it more productive. And while the visibility in a tractor is far superior to a truck, I think the visibility in a loader is that much better than a tractor.

BTW, when I referenced the HLA hitches above, I only did because that is what I have experience with. I would assume that MP hitches provide the same benefits.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

The Horst hitches do lift and stack better than MP. But experience tells me that the MP blades are far superior to the Horst. The two big things with the MP blades is the paint quality and the longevity of cutting edges. Our Horst edges need replacing almost yearly, and they are flippable, where the MP blade cutting edges last 4 or 5 times longer. 

I've looked at a wheel loader for plowing and yard work in the summer, but for us the wheel loader would not work out. We keep two tractors working part time in the summers with loader work in the yard and vacant lot cutting.

An interesting article non the less, we have had tractors for almost 20 years and from the first one we purchased we knew right away it was the way to go, no more 3/4 ton pickup truck purchases, we are moving to 1/2 ton trucks for our maintenance crews now.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

The biggest reason I don't like/hate my HLA...edge wear. We get 1 season out of them as well.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> The biggest reason I don't like/hate my HLA...edge wear. We get 1 season out of them as well.


You can get carbide edges and the new style end plates and paint have really improved on Horst. I have both HLA and MP harness and I like the front 3 point hitches better. Can't see ever buying a new harness other then 3 point from now on. Anyone thinking farmers just plow snow is because they need the money is foolish. Lots of younger generation farm kids who like to work and can start a small business on their own for the winter. Plus with what seasonal subbing pays around here you get basically a free tractor to use for the other 7 months of the year for generally working less then 100 hrs per year.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JD Dave said:


> Plus with what seasonal subbing pays around here you get basically a free tractor to use for the other 7 months of the year for generally working less then 100 hrs per year.


 Wow...


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Being a noob on the loader/tractor end, you guys are all talking about accounts pretty close together right? Nobody is driving 10-15 miles between site clusters like I have to for my routes. We get higher prices for accounts further apart (rural area is the bulk of my service zone) to compensate for the driving. 

Out of curiosity, for you experienced guys, what is the acreage or sq footage turning point to move from trucks to equipment for you within a given route or cluster?


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Kvston said:


> Out of curiosity, for you experienced guys, what is the acreage or sq footage turning point to move from trucks to equipment for you within a given route or cluster?


Also remember that most of the time you're not going to drive a loader with 16'push box down the road site to site.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

m_ice said:


> Also remember that most of the time you're not going to drive a loader with 16'push box down the road site to site.


You're not?

Oops


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

m_ice said:


> Also remember that most of the time you're not going to drive a loader with 16'push box down the road site to site.


A 12 footer?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

There were tons of guys here scrambling to the loaders on site November 10th last year.

@Luther may know a few


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> A 12 footer?


Mine is a 12 footer.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

LapeerLandscape said:


> A 12 footer?


Yes


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

LapeerLandscape said:


> A 12 footer?


???


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Kvston said:


> Out of curiosity, for you experienced guys, what is the acreage or sq footage turning point to move from trucks to equipment for you within a given route or cluster?


You should consider using a loader (with a pusher) on 5-6 acre sites, or sites larger.

I've had loaders travel 15 miles from one site to another carrying a pusher down the road....that was only because of desperation. It's preferred for the loader to travel on roads without a pusher. If you plan on servicing 2 sites with one loader, keep a push on each site.

If you have a chase truck with it's beacons beaconing while following the loader, the police will see that as a good safety measure/precaution and will most likely not stop you. They understand there's a snow emergency happening.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> ???
> 
> View attachment 206245


That's a 14 and it did go down the state highway last year to the job site just after dark.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

m_ice said:


> Also remember that most of the time you're not going to drive a loader with 16'push box down the road site to site.


That's why they make 10-26 wing plows. Pickups have there place and I've argued with guys about trucks vs tractors for 30 years so It's getting old now and that's why I don't comment. Tractors go up and down our roads in the city like pickups did years ago. A brand new tractor will cost you roughly 50% more then a comparable new pickup. It will do 2-4 times as much work and be more reliable and actually still be useable in 10 years. If you need pickups to pull run a landscape crew in the summer the over head for a pickup is minimal. Once you get to a size where your pickups sit for 7 months tractors are where you should be looking. I bought 4 John Deere 7220's in 2004 for 75k. We use 2 of them on the farm for about 100 hrs per year the other 2 are snow only. If I trade them in the Deere dealer offered me 50 k each. So basically They've costed me 25k for 16 years worth of plowing. Maintenance cost and repairs seem to avg out around 1k per year over the last 16 years. At the beginning they were basically nothing and now we have had some more problems but all in all they are still very dependable and I hope to keep running them for another 5 years. The math is simple to me. Drive time's is where you have to figure out productivity bs drive time. If I can do a site 2-4 times quicker and it takes me twice as long to drive there then so be it.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

JD Dave said:


> Pickups have there place


Could agree more


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

Luther said:


> You should consider using a loader (with a pusher) on 5-6 acre sites, or sites larger.
> 
> I've had loaders travel 15 miles from one site to another carrying a pusher down the road....that was only because of desperation. It's preferred for the loader to travel on roads without a pusher. If you plan on servicing 2 sites with one loader, keep a push on each site.
> 
> If you have a chase truck with it's beacons beaconing while following the loader, the police will see that as a good safety measure/precaution and will most likely not stop you. They understand there's a snow emergency happening.


Thanks to all for the input:
1. Fleet is used for my custom home building business in the off season so trucks work in my model no matter what.
2. Most sites are small. Largest I currently service is a bit over 2 acres.
3. Because of the small sites we've been sticking with trucks/front plows/sanders.
4. My biggest cluster of sites totals about 4 acres/3 sites in one town. So I have been considering using my Cat 289 CTL with a metal pless or pusher box.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

BossPlow2010 said:


> There were tons of guys here scrambling to the loaders on site November 10th last year.
> 
> @Luther may know a few


It won't this year cause I can't go to Mexico :realmad:


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

JD Dave said:


> That's why they make 10-26 wing plows. Pickups have there place and I've argued with guys about trucks vs tractors for 30 years so It's getting old now and that's why I don't comment. Tractors go up and down our roads in the city like pickups did years ago. A brand new tractor will cost you roughly 50% more then a comparable new pickup. It will do 2-4 times as much work and be more reliable and actually still be useable in 10 years. If you need pickups to pull run a landscape crew in the summer the over head for a pickup is minimal. Once you get to a size where your pickups sit for 7 months tractors are where you should be looking. I bought 4 John Deere 7220's in 2004 for 75k. We use 2 of them on the farm for about 100 hrs per year the other 2 are snow only. If I trade them in the Deere dealer offered me 50 k each. So basically They've costed me 25k for 16 years worth of plowing. Maintenance cost and repairs seem to avg out around 1k per year over the last 16 years. At the beginning they were basically nothing and now we have had some more problems but all in all they are still very dependable and I hope to keep running them for another 5 years. The math is simple to me. Drive time's is where you have to figure out productivity bs drive time. If I can do a site 2-4 times quicker and it takes me twice as long to drive there then so be it.


I'll give your $52500


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## bananabob (Jan 24, 2012)

I generally only read and learn but never input....But I have to say Im in Ct. and run farm tractors regularly for snow only....We've found the cost of owning the machines is so low it can sit for the entire summer ....still makes sense...We actually just purchased a JCB Fastrac 4220 and outfitted it with HLA 10-20 wing blade..... this tractor goes 45 MPH and with a 10 foot blade can go down any road anywhere no issues....Speed and efficiency are the direct reason to add tractors to the fleet if you are not a construction company in need of loaders for summer income.
Just my 2 cents.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

bananabob said:


> this tractor goes 45 MPH


 Whoa... that is moving


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

bananabob said:


> I generally only read and learn but never input....But I have to say Im in Ct. and run farm tractors regularly for snow only....We've found the cost of owning the machines is so low it can sit for the entire summer ....still makes sense...We actually just purchased a JCB Fastrac 4220 and outfitted it with HLA 10-20 wing blade..... this tractor goes 45 MPH and with a 10 foot blade can go down any road anywhere no issues....Speed and efficiency are the direct reason to add tractors to the fleet if you are not a construction company in need of loaders for summer income.
> Just my 2 cents.


Pics?


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Pics?


Plow porn


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Found out loaders totally suck going uphill. Probably be hard pressed to get 10 mile an hour out of this one this afternoon.


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## MIDTOWNPC (Feb 17, 2007)

DeVries said:


> Found out loaders totally suck going uphill. Probably be hard pressed to get 10 mile an hour out of this one this afternoon.
> 
> View attachment 207028


I've seen a couple pictures of them going downhill sideways like a sidewinder snake in the winter also.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Yes , you can make up the speed going downhill ...... If you can stay in the seat and your lane .


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

DeVries said:


> Found out loaders totally suck going uphill. Probably be hard pressed to get 10 mile an hour out of this one this afternoon.
> 
> View attachment 207028


What size and model of JD ? 544 j ?


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Looking at the back fenders , guessing an L model now.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Buddy and I are going to look at a 1999 Hyundai HL - 740 - 3 . I know it has the cummins engine and ZF transmission . Anything more specific we should be looking at ? He wants to plow snow and use it to load topsoil .


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Gesundheit


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Yes = No


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

SHAWZER said:


> Buddy and I are going to look at a 1999 Hyundai HL - 740 - 3 . I know it has the cummins engine and ZF transmission . Anything more specific we should be looking at ? He wants to plow snow and use it to load topsoil .


We have one. It seems to be a real good machine. We use it to load some in the yard and push snow. Motor and trans work good together.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Suppose to have only 8000 hours on it , seems low but stranger things have happened .


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

SHAWZER said:


> Buddy and I are going to look at a 1999 Hyundai HL - 740 - 3 . I know it has the cummins engine and ZF transmission . Anything more specific we should be looking at ? He wants to plow snow and use it to load topsoil .


A friend of mine has 4 or 5 of them that he uses at his concrete recycle plant. He abuses the hell out of his **** and keeps buying so he must like something about them.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SHAWZER said:


> Suppose to have only 8000 hours on it , seems low but stranger things have happened .


Less than 3,000 on the G I bought. You just never know.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Wonder if parts are hard to get ?


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

Found out the Hyundai has 12000 hours on it


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

SHAWZER said:


> Found out the Hyundai has 12000 hours on it


I think ours has around 4000 hours on it. 12,000 seems high to me but you know what they say about the ones with a lot of hours, must be a good one. Unless your talking about mowers that is.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

SHAWZER said:


> Buddy and I are going to look at a 1999 Hyundai HL - 740 - 3 . I know it has the cummins engine and ZF transmission . Anything more specific we should be looking at ? He wants to plow snow and use it to load topsoil .


Look and see if the starters full of dirt..:laugh:
I guess I jinxed myself telling you how great it is. There was so much dirt and crap the drive wouldn't slide on the armature shaft.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

You had the loader in a little deep ?


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

SHAWZER said:


> You had the loader in a little deep ?


We are always in over our heads.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> We are always in over our heads.


You're taller than someone from oHiO.


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## Plow Masters (Sep 30, 2020)

MIDTOWNPC said:


> I came across this article and thought that I would share. I found it packed full of information and very useful.
> 
> https://vsinnovation.com/pages/ag-tractors-vs-wheeled-loaders-for-commercial-snow-plowing


Great read, lots of useful information, thanks for the share. it would definitely make me rethink buying another loader if I was using it for plowing but my loader is mostly used for our load out sites, and as the article mentions tractors can't lift high enough to load any truck let alone an end dump.

The argument for truck vs tractor is a good one, but for me it comes down to price point and maneuverability. The inital cost upfront is not one I'm willing to put out and my trucks get used year round. Second, most of our sites have tight areas and back-blading where I think a more precise machine is better. I gather from the article that the tractors do well with long passes and very few of our sites have long passes. And even so my 11' xls I feel does them pretty quick.

Just my thoughts thou!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Plow Masters said:


> Great read, lots of useful information, thanks for the share. it would definitely make me rethink buying another loader if I was using it for plowing but my loader is mostly used for our load out sites, and as the article mentions tractors can't lift high enough to load any truck let alone an end dump.
> 
> The argument for truck vs tractor is a good one, but for me it comes down to price point and maneuverability. The inital cost upfront is not one I'm willing to put out and my trucks get used year round. Second, most of our sites have tight areas and back-blading where I think a more precise machine is better. I gather from the article that the tractors do well with long passes and very few of our sites have long passes. And even so my 11' xls I feel does them pretty quick.
> 
> Just my thoughts thou!


Tractors are WAY more maneuverable than a truck. Visibility is far superior as well.

Tractors do well in tight areas or long pushes.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Tractors are WAY more maneuverable than a truck. Visibility is far superior as well.
> 
> Tractors do well in tight areas or long pushes.


Well, if you say so. But why believe this - have you any real life experience?

Seems that doesn't matter - need to listen to "experts". If you want us to believe you, put some letters behind your name.

Mark Oomkes, Cpt. BS, M.TvsL., Phd. SRIC, Guru


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

GMC Driver said:


> Well, if you say so. But why believe this - have you any real life experience?
> 
> Seems that doesn't matter - need to listen to "experts". If you want us to believe you, put some letters behind your name.
> 
> Mark Oomkes, Cpt. BS, M.TvsL., Phd. SRIC, Guru


You missed one, DA.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

GMC Driver said:


> Seems that doesn't matter - need to listen to "experts". If you want us to believe you, put some letters behind your name.


My sincerest apologies.

I'll do that, and then just like the others that have them, no one else knows what they mean.


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## grnleafgrnscape (Nov 30, 2013)

Wow, it seems i should've contacted gmc driver 15 years ago before I started using tractors to plow snow. I guess all these years they javent been working and 1 tractor can't do the work of 2 pickup trucks in less time wether it's small chopped up office building or large strip malls. Guess my guys and I are confused about tractors being able to get in between cars at large apartment complexes easier than trucks. I guess sitting up above the vehicles with glass all the way around you, no obstructed views and surrounded by work lights doesn't offer a better view than a pick up.
Not to mention all 5 of my tractors have same wheel base or shorter than a pickup with tighter turning radius
Not to mention 24"s of snow is like pushing a pile of feathers for tractors. Never saw a truck able to build a ramp and keep stacking snow up to the power line bed before.
I guess I should've asked the expert.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

grnleafgrnscape said:


> Wow, it seems i should've contacted gmc driver 15 years ago before I started using tractors to plow snow. I guess all these years they javent been working and 1 tractor can't do the work of 2 pickup trucks in less time wether it's small chopped up office building or large strip malls. Guess my guys and I are confused about tractors being able to get in between cars at large apartment complexes easier than trucks. I guess sitting up above the vehicles with glass all the way around you, no obstructed views and surrounded by work lights doesn't offer a better view than a pick up.
> Not to mention all 5 of my tractors have same wheel base or shorter than a pickup with tighter turning radius
> Not to mention 24"s of snow is like pushing a pile of feathers for tractors. Never saw a truck able to build a ramp and keep stacking snow up to the power line bed before.
> I guess I should've asked the expert.


You do realize he's being facetious?

Him and I go back at least 15 years.


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## grnleafgrnscape (Nov 30, 2013)

Oops, no I didn't. I apologize. I took it at face value.


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## grnleafgrnscape (Nov 30, 2013)

Apologies to gmc driver


I'll stick to just reading. Lol


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You do realize he's being facetious?
> 
> Him and I go back at least 15 years.


Thought you guys came in on the boat together.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

DeVries said:


> Thought you guys came in on the boat together.


Boat? I thought it was a giant wooden shoe.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

DeVries said:


> Thought you guys came in on the boat together.


LOL


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

DeVries said:


> Thought you guys came in on the boat together.


LOL - jealous?

Truth is you and I go back nearly 30...


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

grnleafgrnscape said:


> Apologies to gmc driver


No apology needed - it was a jab at the posts in another thread. Mark may or may not have pointed out something several months ago, and now some "experts" (WHO) agree.

If I came off as something other than purely sarcastic, I should be the one apologizing. Don't worry - I've had quite a bit of practice at it. Part of the qualifications for being a DA.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

GMC Driver said:


> LOL - jealous?
> 
> Truth is you and I go back nearly 30...


True that. Time flies.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

For the record it may not have been the same voyage but was probably the same boat as they definitely wouldn't spring for 2 of them...


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## grnleafgrnscape (Nov 30, 2013)

Well I can add DA behind me now


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## Plow Masters (Sep 30, 2020)

grnleafgrnscape said:


> Wow, it seems i should've contacted gmc driver 15 years ago before I started using tractors to plow snow. I guess all these years they javent been working and 1 tractor can't do the work of 2 pickup trucks in less time wether it's small chopped up office building or large strip malls. Guess my guys and I are confused about tractors being able to get in between cars at large apartment complexes easier than trucks. I guess sitting up above the vehicles with glass all the way around you, no obstructed views and surrounded by work lights doesn't offer a better view than a pick up.
> Not to mention all 5 of my tractors have same wheel base or shorter than a pickup with tighter turning radius
> Not to mention 24"s of snow is like pushing a pile of feathers for tractors. Never saw a truck able to build a ramp and keep stacking snow up to the power line bed before.
> I guess I should've asked the expert.


That is actually really surprising to me as no one around my city uses tractors. The bigger companies all have construction equipment and use graders and loaders, the smaller guys use trucks and skids. I've only used tractors for sidewalks or around the farm and I can say one thing is that the heaters suck when its -30 but maybe that's just the ones I've been in, and it might explain why no one around here uses them. I like my truck toasty hot lol

For me the biggest things are price point and usability. both my trucks are chopped to 6' box and regular cab so the visibility is better than most trucks and I've only put about $25k into each. Plus we often carry passengers and equipment to do the sidewalks at the same time, or tow trailers on non plow nights so I've never considered anything else.

I can see from yours and other comments as well as the article that a tractor would out plow a truck no problem but I am still curious to know by how much. reason being is that I know that my trucks can do sites 4x faster than a standard skid w/ snow bucket, which to me is very fast as I do all my estimates at $100/hr with a skid then go do it with the truck lol but I guess if a tractor is even faster then I might have to reconsider my game plans.


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## nsmilligan (Dec 21, 1999)

Been a whole while since I posted here, got a little bored with some of the posts,
but having been in the business for near 30 years, started with a truck and and a Unimog, moved to ag tractors, now still have a few trucks 5 ag tractors and 2 loaders, advantage of ag tractors if your running CTV with snow tires 50 KPH travel speed plus the 3 point hitch for a blower or now I've using PTO liquid deicing on some. Loader will out plow a tractor blade for blade, but can't match the travel speed or versatility. Have now switched all my tractor/loader blades to Nordik move edges, longer life then straight carbides, and big reduction in my de icing costs. Horst edgeflex on 2 of the smaller blades, same same effect on de-icing costs.
Guess I have to update my avatar, sidewing has been gone for a while


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## CCSnow (Jan 25, 2016)

nsmilligan said:


> Been a whole while since I posted here, got a little bored with some of the posts,
> but having been in the business for near 30 years, started with a truck and and a Unimog, moved to ag tractors, now still have a few trucks 5 ag tractors and 2 loaders, advantage of ag tractors if your running CTV with snow tires 50 KPH travel speed plus the 3 point hitch for a blower or now I've using PTO liquid deicing on some. Loader will out plow a tractor blade for blade, but can't match the travel speed or versatility. Have now switched all my tractor/loader blades to Nordik move edges, longer life then straight carbides, and big reduction in my de icing costs. Horst edgeflex on 2 of the smaller blades, same same effect on de-icing costs.
> Guess I have to update my avatar, sidewing has been gone for a while


How much are the Nordik edges? Also do they work on trip edge blades or only full trip? Not a whole lot of info on their site.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I was thinking of this thread this past Sunday. Had a hose blow on the Kubota so we were running behind on a couple accounts. Because it was a Sunday, it wasn't a huge deal.

But, to help out, I plowed with our 544 and Metal Pless LiveEdge for the first time. First time I've ever plowed with a loader and pusher, I've worked alongside one off and on for over 20 years so I know the capabilities. I've plowed with our 244, skidsteer with box plow/Blizzard/PlowMaxx, multiple trucks with different plows--straight, V, expanding, underbody--John Deere with a Blizzard and Ebling, Kubota with HLA and Ebling; basically anything you can think of except the loader and pusher.

While I won't be running out and selling my tractors that have plows, it is highly unlikely I will be buying another tractor for plowing. Blowing, sure, but not plowing.

The visibility, maneuverability, overall ability and efficiency are just not there with a tractor compared to a loader. I'm with @JD Dave on this one. I ran off an 11 acre lot in 2 hours despite having never plowed with one before. And despite being a pusher, I didn't need a setup vehicle, I was able to do everything sufficiently without a truck or someone pulling out tight areas or going around cart corrals, islands, etc.

I can only imagine what a loader with a PlowMaxx could do. I hope to find out next season.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I was thinking of this thread this past Sunday. Had a hose blow on the Kubota so we were running behind on a couple accounts. Because it was a Sunday, it wasn't a huge deal.
> 
> But, to help out, I plowed with our 544 and Metal Pless LiveEdge for the first time. First time I've ever plowed with a loader and pusher, I've worked alongside one off and on for over 20 years so I know the capabilities. I've plowed with our 244, skidsteer with box plow/Blizzard/PlowMaxx, multiple trucks with different plows--straight, V, expanding, underbody--John Deere with a Blizzard and Ebling, Kubota with HLA and Ebling; basically anything you can think of except the loader and pusher.
> 
> ...


And you were just whining about someone else buying loaders...

I too had to cleanup about 2 acres left over from Sunday in the 544. Has a 11.5' HD, yes it should have bigger but its also been road friendly. I think it's just the ease and effortless that's makes it so much soothing to plow with. Never ran a tractor so cannot comment but if it's for lots I cannot imagine it being any better... Rezi's sure..

I know the guy running the 624 says it's handled the 16' alot easier then the 924 I would rent for out there...Older heavy iron maybe, but I'm sold on these pre emissions units even with higher hours for what they need to do in the Winter it's a no brainer...


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Philbilly2 said:


> I only see one issue.
> 
> Most winter contracts start in November in our area... we are still shelling corn in November. Be tough to put machines on lots when they are hooked to carts or chisel plows.
> 
> And a question for @MIDTOWNPC what series is the loader tractor in the pic? Just wondering how big of a machine you can even use before they just get "too big" to be productive. I can see where an 8 series deere could be super productive in a warehouse parking lot, but not sure about a strip mall just due to overall size and length of the machine and all the people that have to get bread and milk... Just basing on how they are to drive in populated areas when we are farming with them.


4 and 5 series are very common around here, 6 series about the biggest.

These are DRO Salesmen who do lots of snow tractors.
https://instagram.com/rdonicka?igshid=1iuwh3img142e
https://instagram.com/rdoalexm?igshid=uzhsfw70zq6
And one who is kind of new

https://instagram.com/rdoericw?igshid=riyvd27dfv8p


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

I have never operated a tractor for plowing snow . Have ran a few different Loaders over the years and do not like getting back into a truck to plow anything . Get so use to the 360 visibility and articulation .


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> And you were just whining about someone else buying loaders...


I don't recall that...



Ajlawn1 said:


> I too had to cleanup about 2 acres left over from Sunday in the 544. Has a 11.5' HD, yes it should have bigger but its also been road friendly.


LOL, 18' might be a little large for a G. Longest push is about 700' and I was down to 5 MPH in 1st gear. I also replaced the 25 year old tyres with snow tyres--retreads--but I never lost traction once. Treated or untreated lots.

Also roaded it a couple miles to the shopping center, had to cross one bridge. I think the bridge is 24' wide. Fortunately no one was coming the opposite way either time.



Ajlawn1 said:


> Never ran a tractor so cannot comment but if it's for lots I cannot imagine it being any better... Rezi's sure..


The tractor/blower combo is unbeatable for drives. Agreed on the plowing of lots. I love the 244 for plowing small, tight lots up to medium size. Turns like a skidsteer but will outplow the same HP skid all day long. I'd take that over a tractor all year long.



Ajlawn1 said:


> but I'm sold on these pre emissions units even with higher hours for what they need to do in the Winter it's a no brainer...


Yes


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't recall that...
> 
> LOL, 18' might be a little large for a G. Longest push is about 700' and I was down to 5 MPH in 1st gear. I also replaced the 25 year old tyres with snow tyres--retreads--but I never lost traction once. Treated or untreated lots.
> 
> ...


Mark, are you running snow tires on the 244? or is that a lease? My CAT tires are probably 50/60% tread left, when they are gone was thinking snow tread, few guys I know like them , however, they are running Deere/CAT 18,000 lbs and up


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

512high said:


> Mark, are you running snow tires on the 244? or is that a lease? My CAT tires are probably 50/60% tread left, when they are gone was thinking snow tread, few guys I know like them , however, they are running Deere/CAT 18,000 lbs and up


Kind of....they were Michelin something or others, better than dirt treads but not dedicated snows if you ask me.

Hard part is the 244 runs out of power before traction usually. But they will definitely be replaced with some sort of dedicated snows.

It was a lease and we bought it this year. Looking at the numbers for the lease vs buying and being Dutch made me want to purchase and not lease anymore.

On another note, talked to Paul VZ yesterday about a PlowMaxx for my Deere 5101. Waiting on a price and availability for a front 3 point before making a decision.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

What size of blade on your 244 ?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SHAWZER said:


> What size of blade on your 244 ?


9-15

Paul said a 100 HP tractor should handle that size as well.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

JD 244 about 70 HP ? My older JD 84 is about 50 HP with a 9 foot HLA with 2 foot manual box sides . My loader would not handle anything bigger .


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SHAWZER said:


> JD 244 about 70 HP ? My older JD 84 is about 50 HP with a 9 foot HLA with 2 foot manual box sides . My loader would not handle anything bigger .


64 I think?


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