# Advice on buying a Backhoe



## skywalker

Were looking at getting a backhoe for snow removal and digging in the summer, have never looked into one

what should i look for brand wise and hour wise. used is our budget. can i get something for 20, 000.00 or am i kidding myself


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## RichG53

Rubber tired???
Trac??


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## skywalker

Rubber tires


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## tuney443

skywalker;1235596 said:


> Were looking at getting a backhoe for snow removal and digging in the summer, have never looked into one
> 
> what should i look for brand wise and hour wise. used is our budget. can i get something for 20, 000.00 or am i kidding myself


Yes,for $20K,you can get a very nice rig.I run Deere and only have used them for the last 28 years,so I'm biased some but anyway,I would look for a 310,410,or 510----B,C,D,MAYBE EVEN AN E you can find in your range.Best thing you can do as you sound a little mechanically challenged[please don't take offense] is to hire a heavy equipment mechanic to thoroughly go over your choice before you buy.I wouldn't get anything with more than 5K hours on her unless you get a THOROUGH description all written down in the owner's manual of ALL the PM and repairs with dates and hour readings. Good luck.


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## skywalker

hows Case Stack up


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## tuney443

skywalker;1235642 said:


> hows Case Stack up


If you want the best of all worlds--Deere If you want fast,fast,and faster,don't need ''grunt'' type power in tough digging,installing septics mostly,buy the Case [Can't afford something else].The newer ones are better,granted,but Deere is still top doggy.


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## Pitt4212

Actually JCB backhoes are the best backhoe out there and they sell the most backhoes WORLDWIDE and thats a fact!


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## W.F.D. Plower

I would definitly get oil samples done on the machine. That will tell you everything you need to know about a machine before you buy one.


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## Mdirrigation

How are you going to transport this new machine from job to job ?


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## tuney443

Pitt4212;1235670 said:


> Actually JCB backhoes are the best backhoe out there and they sell the most backhoes WORLDWIDE and thats a fact!


According to what standard are they ''the best backhoe out there''? How many large jobs have you been on where you would see a fleet of JCB hoes? You haven't and most likely won't as they're not ''large contractor oriented'' with their poor parts distribution system.Selling the most doesn't really mean squat.Case used to outsell Deere also because of price,but they really can't hold a candle to Deere or Cat for that matter.


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## skywalker

as far as transportation, we ll drive it, i have been in business since i was 12 years old cutting the neighbors lawn, i have a full service landscape co and my main guy and i started a tree service four years ago. were just plowing for beer and gun money. one of our guys ditched our plow truck the other night and the backhoe driver charged us 85 bucks to pull it out. now i want one thats all. we live in a small college town in western pa called edinboro and are the go to guys in town. i think its time for a hoe, i know cat is the ****, but pricey, deer sounds good too, but i see a ton of case out there. thanks for the input guys, and keep it coming thank you


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## gmcsierra1500

I am in a similar situation I already have a bobcat for grading and dirt work and have been using it to push back banks this winter althoguh it doesnt compare to what a backhoe can do in the snow and is much slower. I was planning on buying a used mini excavator in the spring but now am thinking a backhoe i can use all year and start going for some bigger snow accounts, but still be able to use it on landscape jobs.
Im in the same price range maby alittle higher than you and I have narrowed down my decision to a Case 580 or a Deere 310. If your plowing snow your going to want a heated cab and 4x4 front aux hyd. are nice if you might want to run a blade on the front, also do you forsee the need for an extenda hoe or can you just get by with a standard stick? all options that will effect the price of the machine. Also I dont know your operating experience but the case hoe comes wiht three differnt control patterns adn the 3 and 4 stick controls arent the easiest to run if your used to running an excavator or a 2 stick machine.


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## toyotaplow

In my personal experience I have had nothing but problems with cat backhoes. Their excavators and dozers are awsome but for some reason they missed the mark on the backhoes. I see 580 case backhoes everywhere I go but don't have a whole of experience with them. Personally I would go with deere. They are a nice reliable machine, easy to run, and I don't know anywhere that you can't get most parts for them overnight. With deere though, I would recommend a 410. The 310's are nice and that is what I run day to day, but if you ever get a chance to run a 410 after running a 310 you'll find that the little more reach, size and power makes a huge difference.


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## kmzlawncare

I'm not going to get in this dog fight on witch backhoe is the best but in my opinion case backhoe are the best we have been using them for aleast 40 years and we have tried other brands but always go back to case. And we don't just push snow with them we have a masonry and concrete construction company so we work them pretty hard.


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## tuney443

toyotaplow;1236579 said:


> In my personal experience I have had nothing but problems with cat backhoes. Their excavators and dozers are awsome but for some reason they missed the mark on the backhoes. I see 580 case backhoes everywhere I go but don't have a whole of experience with them. Personally I would go with deere. They are a nice reliable machine, easy to run, and I don't know anywhere that you can't get most parts for them overnight. With deere though, I would recommend a 410. The 310's are nice and that is what I run day to day, but if you ever get a chance to run a 410 after running a 310 you'll find that the little more reach, size and power makes a huge difference.


The OP hasn't been very informative of exactly what his intentions will be with his new hoe,but reading between the lines,I would venture to say that a 310 is really all he needs.


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## shooterm

Case backhoes are really the flagship of the Case construction lineup. Good quality machines since the 70's. Just me but when I see all the chinese copycat machines they roll with Case design. I think really it boils to to personal preference because even if you THINK case has a superior design the resale value of JD and Cat cant be ignored. This summer I'm going to bug my boss about buying his 2001 310d we dont use.


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## toyotaplow

> I'm not going to get in this dog fight on witch backhoe is the best but in my opinion case backhoe are the best we have been using them for aleast 40 years and we have tried other brands but always go back to case. And we don't just push snow with them we have a masonry and concrete construction company so we work them pretty hard.


I have never run a case backhoe, but I would really like to try one out. The company I work for rented a case 130 excavator last fall and we were really pleased with it. The only reason it isn't sitting in the yard now was the price. It seems every company in my area has a 580 and when they replace it in comes another 580 so they must be a decent machine.


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## PlatinumService

I am in the same situation. a backhoe for 12 month use and big enough to do what i need in the winter with a 12-14 foot pusher and would only take 1 minute to take off and use for removal. i dont cut grass so it would work great for some of my bigger landscape jobs. i find deere are way over priced i used one before when my cat was in tansition to another job and was nothing compared to the cat. i have not used a case but they are everywhere and never hear bad things about them. i have run jcb 214's and they are very strong machines and well priced. but the only way to be sure is jump in it and see what fits you best. there are alot of deeres around here and as much as i think they are worst in comparison to what i have driven it might be route i take because of reliability.


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## murray83

All backhoes have quirks in each brand but all in all any machine you choose will be a good one.My advise is go with a brand that has nearby service and parts.Do your homework look over all machines ask questions and get a feel for each dealer.


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## tuney443

toyotaplow;1236825 said:


> I have never run a case backhoe, but I would really like to try one out. The company I work for rented a case 130 excavator last fall and we were really pleased with it. The only reason it isn't sitting in the yard now was the price. It seems every company in my area has a 580 and when they replace it in comes another 580 so they must be a decent machine.


A 580 Case is indeed a very decent rig.It is well known that there's nothing better for fast easy digging.That is why they are the hoe of choice for septic contractors.For an all purpose and tough digging application,Deere can not be beat,Cat a fairly close second.Then there's the reliability,parts distribution network,and dealer servicing to consider.Go to any large equipment auction like Yoder and Frey or Vilsmier and compare the selling prices to 1 another. Deere and Cat will be on top.


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## Mdirrigation

I am still running a 1986 310 b , its older but still runs great .


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## Bruce'sEx

Out of Interest anyone have Experience with Terex? Anyone thats had one say they like them, but parts/service normally is an issue.

Anyone?


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## skywalker

Thanks for the input boys, im looking at a 580 case 4x4 with heat, with a 12 foot sno pusher, with 4 digging buckets and a set of forks, 5500 hours, 23 grand


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## DGODGR

skywalker;1237283 said:


> Thanks for the input boys, im looking at a 580 case 4x4 with heat, with a 12 foot sno pusher, with 4 digging buckets and a set of forks, 5500 hours, 23 grand


A 580 what (D; E; K; L)? What year? I have extensive experience on Cases (Cs through Ks) so I may be able to offer a little help if you wish. Nice that it comes with the extra attachments. I would think that a landscaper would not need all those buckets. If you were digging footings I could see the need.
I have been running backhoes, for over 25 years, as an employee and an owner/operator. I have run Fords, Cases, JCB, Deeres, and Cats. I have come to prefer the Cats. I have had excellent reliability (over 12,000 hours on current unit), performance, fuel consumption, and SUPPORT. I have never used a backhoe that was better balanced than the (2) 416s that I have owned (B & C models). I have been using Cats since '96 so I have not run any of the newer machines. Each brand of machine has a different design and they all have good traits (except for the JCB IMO). IMO your chances of finding a good used machine are good if you stick with the big three (Cat, Case, Deere). They will have the best support too. I have been in business in three states (CA, NM, CO) and I have found that Cat dealers have offered the best service, by far. Deere is second, and not bad service. It's just not on par with Cat, in my experience. As far as Case support, I have found that it can vary greatly. Some dealers offer good support but I have seen poor support (like the dealer near me now). I refuse to do business with them. 
Someone stated that Case comes in (3) possible control patterns. All the big three, and I think all others as well, offer multiple control patterns. The current trend is with two stick controls with pattern changers (to allow easy switching between SAE standard for large and small machines, or "Cat" and "Deere" patterns). This has come about with the introduction of pilot controls. I doubt that this will be a choice for you at your stated budget.
I am not sure how familiar you are with heavy equipment. I would look very close, at any used machine, before I buy. If unsure I would recommend having someone you trust check over the machine thoroughly. Backhoe repairs are not cheap. It's always best, and worth some investment, to know what you are getting into before you buy.
Good luck.


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## gmcsierra1500

DGODGR seeing as you said you have extensive experience wiht the Case machines im currently looking at a 580L 4x4 front aux hyd extend a hoe cab wiht heat(dont know about AC) with 760 hours on it. the guy is asking 26k obo, im going to have my mechanic go over the machine before I would buy it but the deal seems almost to good to be true with that low of hours, or is it jsut a really good deal? also the machines been sitting on teh side of the road for sale for a few months now...


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## PlatinumService

Bruce'sEx;1237255 said:


> Out of Interest anyone have Experience with Terex? Anyone thats had one say they like them, but parts/service normally is an issue.
> 
> Anyone?


i knew a guy that had one and really liked it. but the last time i saw him he had a komatsu so i dont know the deal there.(maybe he liked the rep and went to another dealer?) I have been looking at a brand new 760 terex the finance rates are rediculous right now 0%. all in all terex makes great equipment worldwide i would spend my money on one any day of the week


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## DGODGR

gmcsierra1500;1237372 said:


> DGODGR seeing as you said you have extensive experience wiht the Case machines im currently looking at a 580L 4x4 front aux hyd extend a hoe cab wiht heat(dont know about AC) with 760 hours on it. the guy is asking 26k obo, im going to have my mechanic go over the machine before I would buy it but the deal seems almost to good to be true with that low of hours, or is it jsut a really good deal? also the machines been sitting on teh side of the road for sale for a few months now...


I have no experience with the "L" model specifically but that does not seem to matter with the question at hand. I have not been shopping for a backhoe lately but I do look at the trader rags when they come in the mail. Most of the "L"models that I have seen are asking around $30k. Those seem to have a lot more hours though (3,000+). 
760 hours is very low. I would think that there would be some signs of it's age beside the hour meter (tire wear, outrigger pad wear, cutting edge/bucket wear, etc.). If that machine is equiped with an ECM then it may well have the correct hours stored in it. 
You are asking me a question that I can only speculate about (if it's too good to be true). Use your instincts. I would pursue the sale but I would do it cautiously. It sounds as though it's worth having your mechanic look at it.


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## toyotaplow

> Out of Interest anyone have Experience with Terex? Anyone thats had one say they like them, but parts/service normally is an issue.
> 
> Anyone?


Any experience I have had with Terex machines, they seems to be a light duty backhoe. If you don't have the right operator on it babying the machine they seem to have a lot of problems. They have a really nice price tag on them, but you will get what you pay for. Also I don't know if this is the same everywhere, but in my area it takes about 2 weeks to get a part that the 3 big brand dealers would have on the shelf.


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## tuney443

Mdirrigation;1237227 said:


> I am still running a 1986 310 b , its older but still runs great .


I was the guinea pig when the B's first came out in '83.I had my 510B for 23 years until my 410G came around.It's still going strong out in the boonies at a ''gentleman type farm'' with god knows how many hours on her now.Back in the early 80's,salesmen used to give you free 1 week rentals to entice you to buy.Within 1 hour on my first day with that hoe I called him up and said let's make a deal.Some days I wish I still had her for tight backyard jobs as it would scoot around easier than my new G.


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## PlatinumService

I am seeing alot of deere backhoes with 7 or 8 thousand hours on them. they are still pricey and holding value. Should you be worried getting involved with a machine like this?


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## skywalker

The Case is a 580 Super L 4x4 cab with heat 1997 with 5600 hrs, 4 digging buckets, forks, 10' Avalanche push box( used 3x) $23,000.00 from my buddy, sounds like im gonna have to take it later in the summer


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## dpglandscapes

please dont buy a jcb, get a cat or a deere, either one are nice, i run a 310sj daily, solid machine, still love the cats to


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## tuney443

PlatinumService;1237791 said:


> I am seeing alot of deere backhoes with 7 or 8 thousand hours on them. they are still pricey and holding value. Should you be worried getting involved with a machine like this?


Worried? Only if the rig looks like it was abused and the maintenance wasn't done as scheduled by Deere.They will go strongly beyond 10K hours on major drivetrain/hydraulic components if taken care of properly.


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## PlatinumService

tuney443;1243517 said:


> Worried? Only if the rig looks like it was abused and the maintenance wasn't done as scheduled by Deere.They will go strongly beyond 10K hours on major drivetrain/hydraulic components if taken care of properly.


good to know... looking at the machine you would never know it was worked and its from a dealer. just have to get the service records tho. all the deeres seem to hold their value ridiculously and almost seem over priced. but if they should last that long if cared for properly it might be worth it. 
Thanks


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## muff

I have a 310E. It has been great. Been looking at trading it and dealer says it is worth about 28K retail. 4x4 ext hoe cab, no air 2500 one owner hours.

I also would not touch a jcb. They may make the best machine, but I have a JCB telehandler and parts are so expensive and hard to get. Don't do it. 

I have also had a lot of time in the 580L and the cat 420's. They are both excellent as well. Go with Deere, Case, or Cat, and buy in as good of condition as you can afford and you will be happy with any of them.


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## IC-Smoke

Dont forget to get the controls you like!!! I learned on a 4 stick case then went to a 2 stick and prefer the 2 stick better. I dont have any experience with cat or JCB but have ran plenty of Case backhoes and they performed great! My friend has a 410G deere and it seems like it doesnt have a lot of breakout force. 

Just a caution to stay clear of a Super K series Case, they tend to have a weak rear-end and it is roughly 5K for the parts.... 

.02
Ian


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## PlatinumService

im a 2 stick cat control guy myself. i wouldnt have the slightest idea how to operate the 4 stick.


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## kmzlawncare

I love the 4 stick you have more control with the 4 stick. but its all what you get used to.


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## Pitt4212

No disrespect but how can you have more control with a four stick configuration when you are using your FEET to swing the boom??!!!!! My hands have way more control then my feet will ever have. Four stick controls are as old as using hand/feet controls in skid steers, give them 15 years and they will be obsolete because the only reason people still use 4 stick controls in backhoes and hand/feet controls in skid steers is because they are familiar with them. If they gave 2 stick backhoe controls and hand controls in skid steers a try they would NEVER and I repeat NEVER GO BACK to those relic options!! (and when I say a try I mean more than 5 minutes running the equipment and then giving up and going back to what they are used to)


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## IC-Smoke

I have seen quite a few newer machines with 4 stick. I agree the foot swing is loser but as stated before you can get just a little more control with the 4 stick BUT...... now the new "pilot" controls (2 joysticks like a mini exc.) are where its at.... no more leaning forward bending off to the side 

A beginner on a 4 stick would take awhile to get used to so I think the OP should find a 2 stick or just go out and try some used equipment at dealers to get the feel of things. I am completely worthless on a deere setup where the main boom control is on the right.


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## DGODGR

IMO there are as many opinions about control patterns as there are a$$holes. I have a backhoe (Cat 416C) that has a four lever pattern. Not Case controls, thank God:laughing:, but Ford or Sherman controls. There is one foot pedal, and it controls the extension, if equipped. I think that using fingers offers more precision than hands (four stick vs. two stick). I learned on the Ford controls and, as others have stated here, that makes me biased. I also use a two stick, or joy stick, pattern on my excavators. Of course Cat controls are better than Deere (SAE standard large machine vs. SAE standard small machine):laughing:. All joking aside there are a lot of control patterns out there. IMO this is because of marketing strategies. As others have mentioned we all have a tendency to stick with what we are comfortable with. If a MFR gets us used to a particular pattern (their proprietary pattern) we will, more often than not, buy that machine next time. Now, pilot controls are the norm and this easily enables a pattern changer. On backhoes and excavators this allows changing between Cat and Deere quickly and easily. On skid steers one can select between Bobcat and Case. The ability to change has made it easier for employers. They no longer have to be worried about what type of pattern a potential employee is used to.
I now have thousands of hours on two stick and four stick controls. I still find that I prefer the four stick on a backhoe, and I prefer the two stick on an excavator (I've never even seen anything else offered). I find this a little odd. The machines do the same motion. If I'm using the joy sticks I find that having arm rests becomes of paramount importance. On the four stick the other levers help to stabilize you hands.
On Edit:
I forgot to mention that you will have much higher fatigue (even to the point of arm pump) with the four levers. A much higher propencity for carpel tunnel too. I also find that you have a lot more options for the size of the knobs. It can be very important in how much control you have, and have an effect on how fatigued your forearms get. I prefer the flat top square knobs (common to Ford control patterns). If you must get the round knobs (the only type available on the Cases last I checked) I prefer the larger ones.


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## tuney443

IC-Smoke;1245671 said:


> Dont forget to get the controls you like!!! I learned on a 4 stick case then went to a 2 stick and prefer the 2 stick better. I dont have any experience with cat or JCB but have ran plenty of Case backhoes and they performed great! My friend has a 410G deere and it seems like it doesnt have a lot of breakout force.
> 
> Just a caution to stay clear of a Super K series Case, they tend to have a weak rear-end and it is roughly 5K for the parts....
> 
> .02
> Ian


Your friend's hoe needs to be looked at then because mine has so much breakout force it's scary.Even with my 3' bucket on,I can curl under serious frost and pop it out easily.


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