# Tractors vs Pick up trucks



## homeworks

Starting to acquire larger and closer together properties for snow removal.
I was trying to figure out roughly how much faster are tractors than pick ups. Of coarse the dealer tells me its twice as fast, but i'd like to know from the guys who are actually out there at 3am in the morning, and not some white collared guy whos never plowed in his life.

i run F250 with v plows (8.5 ft.) and am looking at getting a 100hp kubota tractor with a 10 foot blade that rotates to become a 14 straight blade when needed.

Also, any drawbacks you are aware of would be a great asset too. 
With the rotating wings, i think it should be able to back drag quite well?

thank you!


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## pooleo8

my buddy use his old ass farm tractor for a stretch of residential along his road. Its an Allis Chamers (spl)? and hes got a blower on the back, PTO driven. This thing is like 12 wide and 3-4 feet tall. It makes quick work of any storm around here. He also has the added convenience of blowing the snow rather than pushing it, building piles and possibly tearing up the ground. That thing blows snow 5 feet to 50 feet or more if he really cranks it out. Perahps getting something with a pto will give you an option for a blower and keep an option for a blade.


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## Plow man Foster

We use some pretty big equipment Like pay loaders to skid steers. The reason we use them is because of the capacity (of snow) they can push and Contain at one time! 

Now Residentials There really isnt a specific place that snow NEEDS to be put!! But in a Commercial lot we need to have snow in a specific section of the property. And With a Truck its Really hard to do that! opposed to a Loader. A loader is Faster! 

Honestly no one will be able to tell you how much faster it will be for you, because it all depends on your experience and Setup on the loader. a Kage innovation is Really nice and really speeds my crew up! 

Also with a Loader you will make money in between storms moving piles back.. I dare you to try doing This with your plow! Half way through the season we Make BIGGGGG money moving piles back at small trailer parks, And even some work from fellow plowers. 

We service 5 Subdivisions within a 2 mile radius And A couple other lots in the area so we just leave our loaders in a lot then use then use them to do all the lots.

If you want You can Rent a Machine at CAT and try it out. All the money you spend renting, goes towards a purchase of a Cat machine....Thats what we did!


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## Brian Young

An AG type tractor does ok but only using a 10ft push box I dont think is going to be "twice as fast" as a truck with a V blade. A loader, pay loader, wheel loader or a articulating loader, what ever you want to call them is going to be the best as far as moving the most snow. We do a big box store and since buying a front loader it took the place of 3-4 trucks.


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## JD Dave

Brian Young;1298981 said:


> An AG type tractor does ok but only using a 10ft push box I dont think is going to be "twice as fast" as a truck with a V blade. .


It's a 10 ft Snowing type blade so unless you've used one how do you really know?


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## basher

Brian Young;1298981 said:


> An AG type tractor does ok but only using a 10ft push box I dont think is going to be "twice as fast" as a truck with a V blade.
> 
> Vees are really inefficient at moving snow, any of the DD expanding wing blades, Snowdogg's Xp or Snoway's 29R will move as much as twice the snow or more.
> 
> . We do a big box store and since buying a front loader it took the place of 3-4 trucks.


So you are saying they are 3 to 4 times as fast as a truck??


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## Plow man Foster

basher;1299012 said:


> So you are saying they are 3 to 4 times as fast as a truck??


It depends on the application! you can push more snow with a loader.



Brian Young;1298981 said:


> An AG type tractor does ok but only using a 10ft push box I dont think is going to be "twice as fast" as a truck with a V blade. *A loader, pay loader, wheel loader or a articulating loader, what ever you want to call them is going to be the best as far as moving the most snow.* We do a big box store and since buying a front loader it took the place of 3-4 trucks.


Correct a loader is the Best option. But a Vee is still WAYYY Faster than any Straight blade! We're talkin' 2 way different cups of soup here.


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## Neige

Plow man Foster;1298974 said:


> We use some pretty big equipment Like pay loaders to skid steers. The reason we use them is because of the capacity (of snow) they can push and Contain at one time! Agree
> 
> Now Residentials There really isnt a specific place that snow NEEDS to be put!! WHAT! residentials are very specific where to put snow.
> But in a Commercial lot we need to have snow in a specific section of the property. And With a Truck its Really hard to do that! opposed to a Loader. A loader is Faster!
> That is debateable and also depends on the kind of lot. Again here we go with the word truck, if you are comparing a pick-up to a loader, loader will win every time. Now pick-up agaist a skid steer could be interesting. Put your loader up agaist a 10 wheel truck, in a long push and the truck will win every time.
> Honestly no one will be able to tell you how much faster it will be for you, because it all depends on your experience and Setup on the loader. a Kage innovation is Really nice and really speeds my crew up!
> 
> Also with a Loader you will make money in between storms moving piles back.. I dare you to try doing This with your plow! Half way through the season we Make BIGGGGG money moving piles back at small trailer parks, And even some work from fellow plowers. Have you ever tried blowing back piles of snow, its a very efficent way moving piles back.We service 5 Subdivisions within a 2 mile radius And A couple other lots in the area so we just leave our loaders in a lot then use then use them to do all the lots.
> 
> If you want You can Rent a Machine at CAT and try it out. All the money you spend renting, goes towards a purchase of a Cat machine....Thats what we did!





Brian Young;1298981 said:


> An AG type tractor does ok but only using a 10ft push box I dont think is going to be "twice as fast" as a truck with a V blade. A loader, pay loader, wheel loader or a articulating loader, what ever you want to call them is going to be the best as far as moving the most snow. We do a big box store and since buying a front loader it took the place of 3-4 trucks.


Brian a 100hp tractor with a 10 foot snow wing, will give you at least twice, if not three times the speed of a pickup, in most circumstances. A 10 foot snow wing can open up to a 16 foot straight blade.
Now a Boss extreme V is 9 feet 2 inches as a straight blade, and in the v scoop position its 8 feet 8 inches. Just that comparison tells volumes. As far as loaders are concerned hands down they will replace 3-4 pickups.


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## Plow man Foster

Brian Young;1298981 said:


> An AG type tractor does ok but only using a 10ft push box I dont think is going to be "twice as fast" as a truck with a V blade. A loader, pay loader, wheel loader or a articulating loader, what ever you want to call them is going to be the best as far as moving the most snow. We do a big box store and since buying a front loader it took the place of 3-4 trucks.





Neige;1299029 said:


> Brian a 100hp tractor with a 10 foot snow wing, will give you at least twice, if not three times the speed of a pickup, in most circumstances. A 10 foot snow wing can open up to a 16 foot straight blade.
> Now a Boss extreme V is 9 feet 2 inches as a straight blade, and in the v scoop position its 8 feet 8 inches. Just that comparison tells volumes. As far as loaders are concerned hands down they will replace 3-4 pickups.


1. Sorry i mis-typed. On resis snow gets put mostly in the most accesable part of the driveway for a truck In michigan that is USUALLY at the top of the driveway.

2. Good Point.

3. No i have never blown back piles before but i guess you would Really have to do that RIGHT after the storm. Because last year the problem we ran into was by the time we NEEDED to push back piles, they were already frozen to rock! Also my Customers (well most of them) Didnt want me to take care of this "problem" until it was necessary. They only think about whats happening right now and whats going to happen 5 min. from now. Instead of Down the road.

So we were pretty busy the night before a 7" storm Moving piles back/ away.


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## homeworks

*Thank You*

Hey guys,
i appreciate the discussion!
I have looked at several responses here as well as other threads and have followed up with my dealer, it seems most of you agree that a loader is faster than a tractor.
This surprised me cause the tractor blade i plan on purchasing can go up to 14 ft wide, when most loader scoops are only 8 feet wide???

I can also get a loader option on the tractor at some extra cost, so in case of heavy snow falls i can make some more money as the gentleman from Montreal mentioned, but here in Toronto, we dont usually get that much snow.


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## SNOWLORD

homeworks;1299047 said:


> Hey guys,
> i appreciate the discussion!
> I have looked at several responses here as well as other threads and have followed up with my dealer, it seems most of you agree that a loader is faster than a tractor.
> This surprised me cause the tractor blade i plan on purchasing can go up to 14 ft wide, when most loader scoops are only 8 feet wide???
> 
> I can also get a loader option on the tractor at some extra cost, so in case of heavy snow falls i can make some more money as the gentleman from Montreal mentioned, but here in Toronto, we dont usually get that much snow.


Most loader scoops are 8ft wide????????? Im not sure about this.


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## FarNorth

Photo shows my JD 7400 tractor (100 hp) with a 13' wide snow bucket I made in my shop. It pushes a lot of snow and piles it high. I wouldn't be without it.


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## homeworks

nice wheels


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## SNOWLORD

Give me a 60,000# wheel loader and I will put one of my homemade 20ft boxes on it and I will get more snow from point A to point B in less time than an army of pickups. This is especially true when you get ten inches of snow or more.


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## nsmilligan

I have 2 pickups with 9.5 v blades and 3 ag tractors with snowwings, a 9-14 on the loader mount and a 10-16 and a 12-18 on frame mounts.

The tractors are 3-4 times more efficent then the pickups, for commercial lots. They also have a higher travel speed then loaders getting from site to site plus each of the tractors has a whole back end to attach equipment 1 has an 8' blower, and the other 2 have salt spreaders. So each of them can do more then 1 job.

Loaders are great when equipped with a blade or a pusher, but lack the versatility of the tractor.

Another BIG difference is financing, I can lease a 120HP tractor with all the bells and whistles, mine 120's have suspended cabs and front axles, power heated mirrors, auto shift etc with a plow, cheaper and easier then I can lease a 250 Diesel pickup.
Deere and Case both have Ag and Construction divisions and there is a big difference in the way they finance equipment purchases.
In Canada, an Ag tractor over 60HP isn't subject to sales tax for example.

For me Ag tractors are the way to go.

Bill


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## nsmilligan

SNOWLORD;1299103 said:


> Most loader scoops are 8ft wide????????? Im not sure about this.


Buckets are the most inefficent way to move snow, plus they don't have any type of trip protection if you hit an obstruction, like a raised drain cover.

Bill


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## nsmilligan

SNOWLORD;1299103 said:


> Most loader scoops are 8ft wide????????? Im not sure about this.





homeworks;1299047 said:


> Hey guys,
> i appreciate the discussion!
> I have looked at several responses here as well as other threads and have followed up with my dealer, it seems most of you agree that a loader is faster than a tractor.
> This surprised me cause the tractor blade i plan on purchasing can go up to 14 ft wide, when most loader scoops are only 8 feet wide???
> 
> I can also get a loader option on the tractor at some extra cost, so in case of heavy snow falls i can make some more money as the gentleman from Montreal mentioned, but here in Toronto, we dont usually get that much snow.


My tractors can out perform a loader with the same size blade, they have a higher travel speed, and are faster in open lots, both in reverse and forward, I can select different forward and reverse speeds when using the shuttle shift (ie I may want to start out in 6th going forward, but 8th when going in reverse) and auto shift in selected ranges while plowing. Also my tractor can plow and salt the lot in 1 operation, haven't seen a loader with a salt spreader!

Bill


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## basher

I have a customer that has fallen in love with AG tractors, they say Bucket, Blade, Pusher or Snowblower they are the Bomb. Great visablity, tight turning radius, they carry a snowblower which doubles as ballast.


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## nsmilligan

basher;1299216 said:


> I have a customer that has fallen in love with AG tractors, they say Bucket, Blade, Pusher or Snowblower they are the Bomb. Great visablity, tight turning radius, they carry a snowblower which doubles as ballast.


A 2600 # blower or salt spreader with 2200#'s of salt in it hanging off the back really helps traction!


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## Triple L

What type of spreaders do you have? A guy tried that down here and gave up cause they didn't work worth a crap... Now they're oversize ballast...


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## nsmilligan

1 is a hardy 86" self loading drop spreader, and the other is a modified Snowex see
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=110711 It works really well.

Good salt spreaders are hard to find for an Ag tractor, fertilizer spreaders really don't work.

The hardy spreader works well, but is a drop spreader so it doesn't work well in open lots.

http://www.gohardy.com/english/spreader.html

Bill


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## wewille

I dont have an exact answer, but i would say my ag tractor is far more efficient than any of my pickups. Now I dont have a pay loader, so I cant compare, but my next equipment purchase will definitly be a second john deere before i by another truck or anything else.


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## JD Dave

Reist Welding make a 3 point self loading spinner type salt spreader. It was designed for sand and salt and it works well. Fertilizer spreaders do not work well as said above.


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## dmax08

Here is first hand experiance. I have been doing this for 27 years. Most of those years with Pickups with 9.6 v plows and skid steers. It worked well for a long time, That is until i bought an M7040 Kubota last year and put a 10' blade on it.

I wish i had done this years prior. I actually parked 2 trucks last year becuase the tractor was handling it all with no issue and by far and away burnt much less fuel..

On average where i live we get over 150 inchs of snow anually which means this is a real world scenario i just explained.


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## homeworks

*Thank you nsmilligan!!*

Thank you for your very informative and direct answers. It is greatly appreciated!
My dealer sells Kubota, which i hear is one of the best?? They are a reliable dealer so i would probably stay with them but, No Sales Tax??? sounds intriguing. I will try to find if i have a reliable dealer in the area who sells the tractors you mentioned.

Will 60Hp be enough power?

Most of my commercial units will be typical units that have bay doors at the rear and some parking spots up front. Do i need an additional skidsteer or are these tractors versatile enough to do it on its own. ie little bit of back dragging,


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## homeworks

*lol*

Ag means agriculture -lmao
Also you said any ag tractor over 60 hp has no HST?? really


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## JD Dave

homeworks;1299314 said:


> Ag means agriculture -lmao
> Also you said any ag tractor over 60 hp has no HST?? really


That's correct but as a business you claim the HST back anyways so what does it matter?


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## homeworks

I guess thats true enough jd

milligan - i noticed in your pick with 2 tractors, you have both set ups with the same blade. Not sure of the technical names, but one that can lift up high and one thats mostly a pusher.
Which one works better or does it matter?
Also my dealer told me with a few modifications i can switch between the two options so i can relocate snow if we get enough of it. Which of course means more money.


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## nsmilligan

JD Dave it does make a difference when it comes to financing, some lenders don't want to finance the HST portion which means carrying a 15% down payment till you file.

The 9-14 on the loader tractor is about as heavy as I want to go on a loader, tractor loaders aren't payloaders and though they will take a fair amount of abuse, they really don't like sideways hits.
The nice bright one is the 10-16 on a Horst frame mount, this tractor will out push the loader tractor, because of the way the mount transfers the weight. If you only have 1 tractor I'd go with a loader and then with a light material bucket you can load and carry snow, plus a 100 other attachments. Not sure which make of loader your dealer sells for the Kubota, different loaders have different style mounts the Alo or euro mount is the most popular, no mods are required to switch between blade to bucket to whatever. You'll need a loader with at least a 3rd function and 1 with a 4th is even better, if you go with a snowing. My loader tractor has a electronic joystick, which is really handy , because you can program the 3rd function to work without having to press a button each time. Another option to have is the soft drive for the loader, makes travelling with an 1800# blade hanging offt he front a lot more comfortable, of course a suspended front axle makes it drive better then most pickups.

Here's the other 120 with the 12-18, that's 18' of clearing width with wings out.
Bill


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## JD Dave

nsmilligan;1299386 said:


> JD Dave it does make a difference when it comes to financing, some lenders don't want to finance the HST portion which means carrying a 15% down payment till you file.
> 
> The 9-14 on the loader tractor is about as heavy as I want to go on a loader, tractor loaders aren't payloaders and though they will take a fair amount of abuse, they really don't like sideways hits.
> The nice bright one is the 10-16 on a Horst frame mount, this tractor will out push the loader tractor, because of the way the mount transfers the weight. If you only have 1 tractor I'd go with a loader and then with a light material bucket you can load and carry snow, plus a 100 other attachments. Not sure which make of loader your dealer sells for the Kubota, different loaders have different style mounts the Alo or euro mount is the most popular, no mods are required to switch between blade to bucket to whatever. You'll need a loader with at least a 3rd function and 1 with a 4th is even better, if you go with a snowing. My loader tractor has a electronic joystick, which is really handy , because you can program the 3rd function to work without having to press a button each time. Another option to have is the soft drive for the loader, makes travelling with an 1800# blade hanging offt he front a lot more comfortable, of course a suspended front axle makes it drive better then most pickups.
> 
> Here's the other 120 with the 12-18, that's 18' of clearing width with wings out.
> Bill


My point was you get the HST returned to you so it's a mute point. If your financing a tractor with zero down I guess you can run into problems.


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## IMAGE

Triple L;1299219 said:


> What type of spreaders do you have? A guy tried that down here and gave up cause they didn't work worth a crap... Now they're oversize ballast...





nsmilligan;1299222 said:


> 1 is a hardy 86" self loading drop spreader, and the other is a modified Snowex see
> http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=110711 It works really well.
> 
> Good salt spreaders are hard to find for an Ag tractor, fertilizer spreaders really don't work.
> 
> The hardy spreader works well, but is a drop spreader so it doesn't work well in open lots.
> 
> http://www.gohardy.com/english/spreader.html
> 
> Bill


Normand Co. also makes salt spreaders for tractors.


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## nsmilligan

The normand spreader is also a drop spreader.
The only other decent looking broadcast spreader i could find was a Hydromann, but the ditributor doesn't bring them in to N America too expensive I was told.
http://www.vestashydromann.com/3/default.aspx?PageID=215

Bill


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## JD Dave

nsmilligan;1300079 said:


> The normand spreader is also a drop spreader.
> The only other decent looking broadcast spreader i could find was a Hydromann, but the ditributor doesn't bring them in to N America too expensive I was told.
> http://www.vestashydromann.com/3/default.aspx?PageID=215
> 
> Bill


These spreaders will do what you want. http://www.reistindustries.com/broadcast-spreader.php


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## CP Paul

Hey guys, helpful thread.

I've just put an offer in on a L5740 Kubota, with a bucket and a Normand 80" inverted blower. 

People I have spoken to around Ottawa swear by these Kubota's and in this size there supposed to be strong enough to handle the work, fast at it and super maneuverable. This ones got all the bells and whistles.

So far I have been sticking mostly to residential work and in my area here in Carleton Place, there aren't many blowers out here, mostly trucks. So there are a lot of places that haven't been able to be serviced in the past, here in town. (lots have no place to push the snow). 

Any thoughts?


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## JohnnyRoyale

Here's my two cents on the topic. 

A full size loader (120hp+) or a 120 HP tractor will outplow a pickup truck by minimum 3 times...especially on heavier accumulations!!!

A loader is more versatile because of stacking and loading capabilities, and in the long haul will earn you more money than just a tractor and blade. 

In my opinion, and from my experience, the tractor will outpush a comparable hp loader..provided the operators are both competent.. 

One of the downsides of the tractor is the learning curve to efficiently operate one...and if yoru ever in a jam (say your oprator is sick) it may be difficult to find someone who can replace him and be equally efficient as say a loader operator running a loader. 

We pair our loaders and tractors up with pickups to do the detail work and clean up smaller areas on our sites. The big iron and tractors do all the heavy plowing.

Now keep in mind, we do alot of schools, and 99 percent of the time we work after the storm, we dont plow with the storm, so were always moving more than than two inches at a time including snow that drifts off roof, and from adjacent fields. Sites have designated pile locations and rarely are we windrowing snow onto a curb. 

The tractors are not built like heavy iron and shouldnt be treated as such...a cowboy can cause alot of hurt to a tractor which would otherwise tickle a loader. 

Loader arms on a tractor are a good idea...we have a set but dont use them, mainly beacuse its a PITA to disconnect our plows and hook it up. I dont recommend hanging anything off the front of the loader arms other than a bucket, but thats just my opinion.

If you've priced out your machine at Kooy, you're in good hands. Theres a reason they're the #1 Kubota dealer in Canada.

Hope this helps, good luck!


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## Brian Young

basher;1299012 said:


> So you are saying they are 3 to 4 times as fast as a truck??


?? I'm saying, our front loader took the place of 3-4 trucks. The place we do now, I used to plow when I was a sub years ago and we used 5-6 trucks to plow it and a backhoe to stack and we would be there for hours. We now use our loader and 1-2 trucks and get it done in less time than before.

Every Farm tractor I've ever seen plowing was doing maybe a whoppin' 7-10 mph, a Kubota and a JD both on the larger size. I don't know about you but I have no problems plowing a larger, smooth lot around 20+mph so I guess thats where I was coming from.


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## CP Paul

Well for me, I'm just looking mostly at high volume, standard sized driveways in town. The 6' bucket will come in handy if I do some loading for a very small commercial account like a restaurant or something. 

I hadn't seen before these monster blades before like nsmilligan's got, with the wings. Now that does look super-fast for doing lots.


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## CP Paul

I think that 12-18 blade for your tractor is fantastic. Hadn't seen them before.
If I get the L5740 Kubota I've put an offer in on, any idea how big I can go this machine?
Who makes them and what kind of price tag for the ones you have?

Thanks,
Paul


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## nsmilligan

At the top of the page click the HLASnow.com link

Bill


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## CGM Inc.

JohnnyRoyale;1302385 said:


> One of the downsides of the tractor is the learning curve to efficiently operate one...and if yoru ever in a jam (say your oprator is sick) it may be difficult to find someone who can replace him and be equally efficient as say a loader operator running a loader.


Had that expierience too with operators not showing at a storm :realmad: but that's how I got to use the tractor  plowed 3 storms with it and got her done. You need time behind the wheel to get there which is never available in a storm. Have now 3 drivers, one to be trained and another one on staff that should be ok too. Common sense and a calm attitude goes a long way!


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