# PER PUSH or PER HOUR???????????



## WheelerandSon (Jan 6, 2005)

Hey all!!!!!!!!!!

I am in the Davenport, Iowa area. I am trying to pick up some new accounts this year, and I have been pricing by the hour as I normally do. I have never priced per push, but it seems like after last winter, alot of places are wanting per push pricing. I prefer per hour, but what does everybody else think?

Ryan


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## tom_mccauley (Dec 10, 2007)

If you are in a snow belt, per push/per hour works good, if you do not have alot of plowable events then seasonal is the way to go.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

i prefer per push or seasonal that way you get paid for efficiency


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

I prefer per push like cretebaby said, get in and get out. I have to ask though, you are looking for contracts now? It is the second week of November. I would think all you might be able to get would be driveways.


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## WheelerandSon (Jan 6, 2005)

I sent out 84 quotes in August and only heard back from four. Even tried to follow up. $55/ per hour for truck with plow, $30/ per hour for shovel/snow blower, and $15.00/ 50lb used for salting. I was told I was reasonable, but where are the phone calls????????


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## plowtime1 (Nov 1, 2007)

Always remember- some of your competitors entice customers with 2-3 year deals.
Personally, I prefer year to year. How long have you been around? Did you follow up in September? How about a personal visit? persistance is key.JMO


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## kah68 (Jan 16, 2006)

Per Push only, it's fair and you know where you stand. History will tell you what the minimum number of events will be so I base my insurance and maintainance budgets on the min number of events and price accordingly.


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## WheelerandSon (Jan 6, 2005)

well, if you really think about it, my hourly rate is kinda like a per push rate. I mean, I charge minimum one hour if the location only takes 15 minutes. If I am $55 per hour, and I show up two different times in a storm, then the bill is $110. Some guys get $55 per push. Same cost if they show up twice in each storm.

However, I guess a customer can argue the only owe me $55 total for two visits that took 15 minutes each since they are still under an hour.


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

If your trying to expand, per push or per hour is OK, whichever works. I like to talk to the places in person. If I'm trying to get new lots established, I will also talk with them about swaping 15 to 20% of my plow (not salt) billing in the form of a gift certificate. Many thimes people eat that right up if you explain to them that your spending your money with the folks that spend it with you. I also like to hand deliver my bills to all of my clients to make sure things are going OK. A little extra time and TLC goes a long way.


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## WheelerandSon (Jan 6, 2005)

I agree with you. I like doing things in person as well. My other issue for this year is that I am getting back into the snow plow gig this year on my own, so I have to re-establish myself. I was in it a few years ago for myself, but we had some dead winters, so I got out of it. I helped another guy out for the past couple of years, but I did not agree with how he did things logistically. He had accounts all over the place, and was way behind on paying his help. So, I decided to get back in the game. Just frustraiting getting accounts in which other guys have already established themselves. I put a little ad in the phone book hopeing to get the last minute planners.


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## drumbo (Dec 8, 2006)

WheelerandSon;639521 said:


> I sent out 84 quotes in August and only heard back from four. Even tried to follow up. $55/ per hour for truck with plow, $30/ per hour for shovel/snow blower, and $15.00/ 50lb used for salting. I was told I was reasonable, but where are the phone calls????????


Sometimes a business might think you are too low and dismiss you as a non-player. By the time you get fuel, insurance, labor, etc added in, the costs are usually higher than $55/hour.

Also, quoting salt by the pound instead of by the ton is a sign of a "smaller guy"...even if you handle it by the bag, bid by the ton. A 1/4 of a ton would be $XX.XX etc.

I am one of the highest in my area (I bid per hour) and I have gotten nearly every contract I have been called on or sought out. I know the Lord is blessing me. 

I am also one of the only people with access to salt for a good distance...I'm sure thankful for that.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

WheelerandSon;638372 said:


> Hey all!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I am in the Davenport, Iowa area. I am trying to pick up some new accounts this year, and I have been pricing by the hour as I normally do. I have never priced per push, but it seems like after last winter, alot of places are wanting per push pricing. I prefer per hour, but what does everybody else think?
> 
> Ryan


per push or seasonal is better for getting customers because it allows the customer to really compare actual cost that they pay not a hourly fee plus what ever you pad on top of the $55/hr........if you say you charge $55/hr the customer knows that you are going to add hours when they are not looking because at $55/hr you wont have any $$$$ left for new cutting edges and plow fluid at the end of the day.....


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## btammo (Aug 16, 2008)

WheelerandSon;642818 said:


> well, if you really think about it, my hourly rate is kinda like a per push rate. I mean, I charge minimum one hour if the location only takes 15 minutes. If I am $55 per hour, and I show up two different times in a storm, then the bill is $110. Some guys get $55 per push. Same cost if they show up twice in each storm.
> 
> However, I guess a customer can argue the only owe me $55 total for two visits that took 15 minutes each since they are still under an hour.


So your reasoning says the customer that it takes only 15 minutes to plow, pays the same as the customer who takes an hour to clear?

I dont like per hour charge to be honest. Opens the door for peoples criticizing. THey may think you should be able to do it faster, or you may have a guy that goes there the next time that takes longer than you do it...and so on. I like to give them a price per push and they know what it is going to be.


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

I use this rule of them for the most part. Smaller lots = per push, big lots = per hour unless I have done them for awhile and I know how long it takes me. Beside, with the per push charge, with my new wide out, I should be able to clean them up faster, thus money money per push for me. If I cut down my time because of my equipment upgrade (which equals more expense for me) then the clients benefits...not me. I like the per plow charge best.


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## carl b (Dec 28, 2006)

cretebaby;638505 said:


> i prefer per push or seasonal that way you get paid for efficiency


this is true but make sure that you get more if you are pushing more snow like 1-3 $35 4-6 $50 7-9 $65


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

I usualy quote them X amount up to 4 inches and more $$ for more snow.


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## Advantage (Nov 7, 2007)

Take into consideration lot traffic during specific times of day for Per Push Pricing. For instance you could be in trouble if you bid a lot on how long it would take to do at night with no one around vs. the time to plow during the day with traffic all around. I.E. I can do a McDonalds lot in 45min. at night which turns into over an hr. nightmare at breakfast time.


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## drumbo (Dec 8, 2006)

No matter what you charge, it will divide out into some dollar/hour number....to those who charge per push or per season, do you have a specific per hour you would like to see averaged?

I bid per hour and get decent money. I thought about bidding per job and just trying to become more efficient. But on some level, doesn't it just take the time it takes - regardless of the equipment you use? I know bigger equipment can go faster, therefore, can't you just charge more per hour and end up with the same money in less time with more expense into equipment?

I want to learn...


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## btammo (Aug 16, 2008)

crb 2500;646824 said:


> this is true but make sure that you get more if you are pushing more snow like 1-3 $35 4-6 $50 7-9 $65


The only question/problem I have with this is this....do you get out of the truck and measure each parking lot before you plow. Some areas of the parking lot measure more than other areas? Wind blowing snow? If it is 3.25 inches is it worth $15 more? I just have heard nightmares of people trying that around me and they got shafted by alot of customers. Maybe because of trust, maybe because chance of discrepancies, i dont know........ I know alot of people do that other places. When I bid it straight up, it is what it is every time. My scheduling/route is really close to getting all trucks back to the parking lots every 2" (unless during a blizzard)so I dont worry about it. If it is overnight snow we start earlier. We do alot of banks, gas stations and 24 hour locations so we plow alot of hours. We get full shot each time.


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## mkatrucking (Sep 4, 2008)

Wheeler, I'm also in Davenport and my company one of the bigger contractors here. 55/hr seems pretty low for this area. The others who have replied to you are probably right in stating that the accts. you are after may think you are too low. FYI I pay our subs $60/hr so I'm sure you can assume what we charge and people have no problem paying. We do all of our lots per push with the exception of one large stripmall which is hourly. Keep after it... I remember being in your shoes. Let me know if you need anything else. 

Mike


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## WheelerandSon (Jan 6, 2005)

mkatrucking (Mike),

Well, I assumed that most in our area were charging by the hour, that is why I went with by the hour pricing. I also figured it was the easiest way to go. When I use to do this in the past I guess I did it per push.

They guy that I had been helping the past few years told me he does it by the hour and that he never gets more than $50 per hour. I think he was blowing smoke up my you know what.

I would gladly do a per push price, but I think it gets confusing when you throw in per inch pricing like $35 for 1" to 3", $50 for 4" to 6" and so on. Because, I can see getting into a pissing match with the customer on how much snow actually fell at each time you went out to push it. I think that if I did a per push, it would just be a standard rate per push regardless of the amount of snow.

Again, I based my per hour rate on what I was hearing others were getting. I am not really looking to cut a fat hog on the amount of accounts I have, but I would like to have more than the 3 or 4 that I have. 10 to 12 would be great! I guess I shot myself in the foot for this season. I placed a phone book ad this year under snow removal. Do you think there is any chance I will get more accounts during the season?

Well, if you need a sub, add me to your list. I have all of the necessary insurance and I have three trucks (one is for sale). One is a power v and is equiped with a salt spreader.

Ryan


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## mkatrucking (Sep 4, 2008)

Wheeler, Theres no doubt in my mind you will get a few calls yet. Keep your phone on you in the morning (monday). Its seems people always wait till the last minute to call someone. Never seems to fail. what kind of salt did you buy this year. We have roughly 100tons. Most likely will be salting in the morning. oh yeah meant to tell ya... We bid by the event like I said eariler.. also no matter how much falls. We straight up tell the customer that we wont plow a foot of snow so expect 2 bills for 2 trips.. Most understand, if not there are plently more out there. You said you had 4 accts. where are they at??


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## WheelerandSon (Jan 6, 2005)

I have 2 churches. One in Davenport and one in Moline. The one in Moline was a referral by a friend, so I had to take it. I also have a small 6 plex in Davenport, and I farmer's lane just down the road from my place. Like I said, I would like to have at least 8 to 10 more, or even a bit more if the time permits.

As far as salt goes, I just bought a pallet of 50 lb rock salt a couple of months ago.

I have been racking my brain tonight looking at different info on this site about per push pricing. This is what I came up with:

2"-4" $40.00
5"-7" $55.00
8"-10" $70.00
10" or more would be $70 + $5.00 per inch over 10"

How does that sound? I need to change up my bid/contract form a bit, but not a big deal. My contract looks pretty professional, which I think helps. My attorney went through it and made the necessary changes. I think I might need to dumb it up a little as that could have scared some people away as well.

So, how does a guy get sub work???

Ryan


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## QuadPlower (Jan 4, 2007)

WheelerandSon;642818 said:


> well, if you really think about it, my hourly rate is kinda like a per push rate. I mean, I charge minimum one hour if the location only takes 15 minutes. If I am $55 per hour, and I show up two different times in a storm, then the bill is $110. Some guys get $55 per push. Same cost if they show up twice in each storm.
> 
> However, I guess a customer can argue the only owe me $55 total for two visits that took 15 minutes each since they are still under an hour.


Hourly is hourly. If you were there 15 minutes, then you should charge .25 hour or $13.75. I would be pissed if you did my lot in 15 minutes and charged me an hour. But I would not be pissed if the per push charge was $55 and it took you 15 minutes. See the difference?

Sounds like you are all commerical so charging different rates for different depths is okay. I have a problem with people doing driveways with different rates for different amounts. 99% of the plow trucks out there can handle 99% of the snow that falls in 99% of the driveways. As an example if you show up in the a.m. and there is 2" or 9", your truck should be able to handle it and it should not take you much time difference to move the snow.

As far as your hourly rate goes, if you are happy then stick with it. But is sounds like you can be making more.


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## Highpoint com. (Dec 20, 2009)

I'm in Dubuque and only have a few years in the game as well. After a couple of years of plowing commercial and residential i find that per event/per push are the only two options that make sense and money. We are in a bad economy but people hate snow and the cold and are always willing to pay whatever they need to to stay in their nice warm house.


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## Crestview (Sep 8, 2010)

I know I'm responding to posts from 2 years ago, but I like digging in the garbage.

A lot of you want to charge by the hour, a lot by the push.

It's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Generally you'll do better charging by the hour with a minimum charge. Minimums are set everywhere and generally accepted. If you sign a contract charging $60 per hour, one hour minimum, people will go for that. And hit helps to eliminate the BS calls for petty stuff. I'd much rather push 6" than 2".

On that note, charging by the inch AND by the hour is silly. One flat rate per hour, based on 4" or so is standard. Figure out how long it would take to clear 4" off said lot, and that would be your basic rate. Theoretically it would take 3 times as long to push 12" off the same lot, so your time will go up based on amount of effort required. I'm making my own head hurt here.

Say it takes one hour to clear 4" from this lot. You decide to charge $45 per hour for 1-3, $55 for 3-6, $65 for 6-9 and $75 for 9-12. So it costs $55 to clear 4" at one hour. Using the theory of quantity vs. time, it would take 3 hours to clear 12". The customer would be charged $75x3= $225.00. Or just $55 for 4". The gap is too great. People will get raped in heavy snows with this theory, and eventually become angry and burn your house down.


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

My first year I accepted hourly as a good way to get paid...

Then my second year I realized that I can plow twice as efficiently as my first year.

If you want to be limited in what your rig can make in 8 hours...hourly is for you...If you want to make more than what you can bill out on paper billing hourly...Per push, Per event, and Seasonal are much better options.


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## mr.lawn works (Sep 16, 2010)

I Plow by the hour/per snow event and works well hourly has a min of 1 hour no matter what it takes for time and is stated like that in the bid. When i first started PROFITS UNLIMETED was great help to me Thanx to WAYNE.


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## m.$terner (Feb 28, 2010)

so when you guys do per push its for a set amount of snow right? just want to make sure im understanding this right? im used to doing hourly but this kind of makes sense too.like lets says you get $200 for said lot per push. and lets say you plow per every 6 inches to stay on top of the storm. nobody wants to push 2 inches nor does anyone want to be pushing 10+ inches. so if you get around 18 inches your going to charge them $600 (200 per push x 3 pushes). am i understanding this correct? otherwise it seems like you might make out in small storms but when huge storms hit your going to get burned and kill your equipment for really crappy money.sure as hell wouldnt want to plow 18 inches from the said lot for $200.


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## havenprosnow (Sep 28, 2010)

Grampa Plow;646814 said:


> I use this rule of them for the most part. Smaller lots = per push, big lots = per hour unless I have done them for awhile and I know how long it takes me. Beside, with the per push charge, with my new wide out, I should be able to clean them up faster, thus money money per push for me. If I cut down my time because of my equipment upgrade (which equals more expense for me) then the clients benefits...not me. I like the per plow charge best.


What is your trigger that you agreed to with the customer. 2 inches?


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

m.$terner;1098525 said:


> so when you guys do per push its for a set amount of snow right? just want to make sure im understanding this right? im used to doing hourly but this kind of makes sense too.like lets says you get $200 for said lot per push. and lets say you plow per every 6 inches to stay on top of the storm. nobody wants to push 2 inches nor does anyone want to be pushing 10+ inches. so if you get around 18 inches your going to charge them $600 (200 per push x 3 pushes). am i understanding this correct? otherwise it seems like you might make out in small storms but when huge storms hit your going to get burned and kill your equipment for really crappy money.sure as hell wouldnt want to plow 18 inches from the said lot for $200.


What's wrong with pushing 2 inches?...that's my preferred depth.

It seems like many of the members asking questions about these things are forgetting the key : The TRIGGER.

Whether your trigger is an inch, two, or three.(6 is nuts)..That's when the property should be serviced.

8 inch storms rolls in...you could essentially bill out for 4 pushes if your trigger is 2"...but in many cases and for many reasons, it always doesn't work out like that.

I really like Per Event, with a 2" trigger. You bill out according to total snowfall depth per event. If the snow comes during the day...you have to abide by the 2" trigger depth for services...but say 6 inches comes in after store/business closing, and stops around 3am...you go in there and push 6" ONCE and bill out for a 6" event with 2" trigger....payup


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