# Beach Erosion Work



## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

Well I got a last minute job doing some beach erosion work. The local beach around here is having some major erosion problems, the dunes have been loosing more and more sand, bringing the houses closer to the edge each day even. One house actually fell down off the dune, onto the beach, and was lost.

What we've been doing is wrapping hay bales in snow fence, then bringing them down onto the beach, and then placing them in a trench that was dug in front of the dune. The idea of this is to help control washout each time the waves go out after breaking.

Its a pretty interesting project, and something not many people are doing so I thought I'd post some pictures. It ended up being a lot larger of a job than we planned, I thought we were doing 20 or so hay bales, we ended up doing over 100.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

Heres a few more...


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

nice way to work the tractors in the off season!


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Good thinking,but wouldn't adding another row in front in a staggering pattern do even a more thorough job?


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## deere615 (Jun 1, 2007)

interesting project!


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

What size Link Belt is that? My uncle has 2700, it's a good machine.


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## Jello1 (Jan 17, 2008)

Cool project. I assume you gotta deal with the local EPA over environental issues with working in relation to the water.That must be a big headache.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Whose idea was it to use bales wrapped in snow fence? I haven't seen anything like that before.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

can you explain WTF those are going to do? Water and moisture + hay bales= no hay in a year......... nice fence though.

I dont get what they do down in the ground? maybe stacked up against that slope to act as a make shift retaining wall and wind barrier but buried? 

How about they bring in a few thousand yards of dirt and spread it on that hill side and get some established hardy grasses and sedges growing, that is a long term solution. Or cover the hill in rip rap.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

newhere;1125148 said:


> can you explain WTF those are going to do? Water and moisture + hay bales= no hay in a year......... nice fence though.
> 
> I dont get what they do down in the ground? maybe stacked up against that slope to act as a make shift retaining wall and wind barrier but buried?
> 
> How about they bring in a few thousand yards of dirt and spread it on that hill side and get some established hardy grasses and sedges growing, that is a long term solution. Or cover the hill in rip rap.


You really think the DEP would allow spreading a few thousand yards of dirt on the SAND dunes of a protected barrier island? Your crazy, or probably just not from anywhere near an ocean or beaches... You know nothing about this particular situation at all, so hold off on your ignorant comments until you've lived here and seen the problem first hand for years. And dirt washes away just as easy as sand will.

And they did dredge the river and brought in something like 120,000 cubic yards of sand from that and most of its gone in a few months. Then recently they brought in 2,500 cubic yards of sand and put it in front of only a few houses, it was gone in one good rain/wind storm. This is more a temporary solution to get them through the winter.

And to answer your question, it will help to prevent washout of the sand from the dune with the out going waves. The snow fence helps hold the bales together better than they would if it was just the hay.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

Camden;1125143 said:


> Whose idea was it to use bales wrapped in snow fence? I haven't seen anything like that before.


A local resident of the beach presented the idea. He has done it on a separate part of the beach and it worked out great so far from what I understand. Apparently its been installed since June. Also, I was told that this method has been used quite a bit in Australia.


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## jbutch83 (Sep 30, 2002)

merrimacmill;1125192 said:


> A local resident of the beach presented the idea. He has done it on a separate part of the beach and it worked out great so far from what I understand. Apparently its been installed since June. Also, I was told that this method has been used quite a bit in Australia.


Growing up in Daytona Beach, they used to take Christmas trees after the holidays and put them staked up some way on the beach. They would help catch the blowing sand and helped with the erosion. Not sure how well it worked, I haven't lived there in over 20 years but I do remember them doing that as a kid.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Interesting project Collin, They made break walls out of huge pieces of concrete for our beaches and sunk them about 40 yards off the beaches every 20-30 yards apart. I think it worked to some degree but I also think it caused the e-coli bacteria to increase,lol.


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Broken up cement works too but looks ugly! But not as ugly as a sea wall. But in any case good job. Did you manage to get anything stuck? It was probably pretty cold having that wind blow right off the ocean! 
Keep up the good work!


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

Neat project! Better clean those tractors REAL good when your done, i'm sure that salty air isn't good for any part of them!


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## hammerstein (Feb 2, 2007)

Another reason to always have a fishing pole with you. Looked like fun.


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

mcwlandscaping;1125217 said:


> Neat project! Better clean those tractors REAL good when your done, i'm sure that salty air isn't good for any part of them!


Well he is right on the coast so his stuff probably does rust pretty fast


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## SDP Hauling (Feb 24, 2010)

neat project


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

newhere;1125148 said:


> can you explain WTF those are going to do? Water and moisture + hay bales= no hay in a year......... nice fence though.
> 
> I dont get what they do down in the ground? maybe stacked up against that slope to act as a make shift retaining wall and wind barrier but buried?
> 
> How about they bring in a few thousand yards of dirt and spread it on that hill side and get some established hardy grasses and sedges growing, that is a long term solution. Or cover the hill in rip rap.


In 36 years in the excavating biz,I can tell you that IMO,there is NOTHING better than hay for short term erosion control if used correctly.It will last much longer than 1 yr.as you pointed out and in this application,those round bales need to be in the ground.The power of the ocean would have hay floating everywhere if they weren't buried.


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## KMBertog (Sep 9, 2010)

nice work! would be a cool job to do, i think!


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Did you need army corps of enginers approvel to work on the beach or just local dep and town approvels? I know were i live don't even mention the beachs and work without a permit. How long due you expect the bails to last


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

fireside;1126118 said:


> Did you need army corps of enginers approvel to work on the beach or just local dep and town approvels? I know were i live don't even mention the beachs and work without a permit. How long due you expect the bails to last


DEP and town permits. I know what you mean, beach work can be a very touchy subject to the government officials...

We are hoping for them to last the rest of the winter, but we shall see....


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## dieseld (Dec 30, 2005)

Nice job Colin, dont listen to newhere, he has something negative to say everytime he posts on this site.


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## accu-cut lawn (Nov 8, 2010)

Office with a view! Did it pay well?


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

There's going to be a video of this right 
nice job


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## ColumbiaLand (Sep 1, 2008)

You should have just hydroseeded it, erosion control! JK!


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

dieseld;1126203 said:


> Nice job Colin, dont listen to newhere, he has something negative to say everytime he posts on this site.


Im not being negative im just calling em how i see em.

Please explain to me what the bales are physically doing to prevent the erosion?

Tell me what the problem was, what was causing the problem, how the bales change this process and the outcome you believe will be achieved.

If you asked me all you guys did was pi$$ into the wind onto a hard rock, now your pants and your shoes are wet.

This isnt a long term solution, nor is it a short term solution. This looks like a homeowner thought he was a environmental engineer. Plain and simple it just isnt going to help.

Now i understand you didn't design and engineer this so dont think this ball busting is directed to you, i understand you are just the hired hands. Good for you for working and making money when other are out looking, Ive done stupid shet i knew was wrong because a homeowner absolutely insisted. As long as im walking away with a stack of benny boys i will do almost anything.


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## cubanb343 (Dec 13, 2007)

I agree with newhere. I highly doubt that will work, but if you can get the rich people to replace it year after year and make money on it, do it!


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

installing them into the ground is what the problem is, that isnt doing a darn thing. That hill side is not sliding into the ocean. Its a steep slope and the rain is washing it away, the wind is blowing it away and gravity naturally is pulling down on it. If they would have stacked those bails up in a wall at the bottom and hilled in behind them with sand what would that do?...............it would raise the bottom thus decrease the severity of the slope reducing the effects of the elements. The "gentleir" you get that slope the better off you will be. 

Bales in the ground would only help if the hillside was sliding away as a whole and even then the bails wouldn't stop a landslide.


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## R.G.PEEL (Oct 27, 2010)

Hey there, I am somewhat of an expert when it comes to erosion control/earth retaining. I can definately see how the hay bales will help get you through a winter, but whatever time it takes to rot, it eventually will. It is organic. This doesn't mean the idea is stupid. Sandbags aren't permanent either, but every year, millions of them protect lots of land from floods. Sometimes temporary solutions are needed.

Now that the land is safe for some time, consider this as a way to make some huge money. Sell the township and the landowners on the idea of an engineered stone retaining wall for the water to break on.

I have included a picture of a project we just completed up here in Canada. It is beautiful, easy to build, and you can charge great money for it because it will last. We needed permits as well and with the help of an engineer we work with often (msg me and I'll provide you with his contact info) we were permitted to do this on the lakebed while the water level was at its lowest.

Some areas may raise a fuss over using limestone because over time, a minute amount of the rock will actually dissolve in the water, but most areas allow it. If they won't, consider Granite. Let me know what you think. Not meaning to Hijack, just thought this would be a good recommendation. I would be more than happy to share the design of this with you, as far as how to bed it so the sand underneath doesn't simply wash away.

Cheers,
Grant Peel
R.G. Peel Construction Ltd.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

R.G.PEEL;1128230 I can definitely see how the hay bales will help get you through a winter
[/QUOTE said:


> Can you explain what they are doing then? seriously i dont understand what they are achieving underground?


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Im sure Gabion baskets would work wonders in erossion controll. And best, they don't rot, and u can multi stack them!


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Heres some pics of an Armour stone wall we built this summer...


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## R.G.PEEL (Oct 27, 2010)

newhere;1128277 said:


> Can you explain what they are doing then? seriously i dont understand what they are achieving underground?


No problem newhere. The bales must be burried (at least partially) in order to keep them from being dragged to sea by the receding waterline. I am not 100% familiar with this particular project so I am only speculating on the next part. I would assume that this is the point that most of the errosion is occurring. If I am right then the waves are breaking on bound haybales that will absorb the impact and not wash away. Obviously the odd wave that gets past the bales will still pull sand back and wind will still carry a small amount, but there will not be drastic loss of sand. Also if it is migrating at the speed described in the previous posts, then the haybales will likely be more exposed soon.

Either way, they were apparently tested on a property closeby and they worked so it can't be hurting. I have used hay bales in ditches and swales where the flow of water must be slowed in order to keep mud from moving into culverts. hay does work very well to slow water while still allowing it to pass. This is an interesting use and one that I have never seen before. It is however, organic so I'm sure everyone realized it wasn't a forever fix, but rather a right now fix in order to keep from losing property. Where I'm from, people do shoreline work all the time in order to deal with the same problems. Usually we use rock, or corrugated steel panels to retain the earth and give the water a harder face to break on.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

dont think im going to go for that..................

like hell those waves are breaking on the bales, they are 100 and 10 percent underground. If those waves are in fact reaching up and breaking on that slope (and i dont think they are exept in a horrible storm) then they are just going to drag sand over top of them and burry them even more. That sand out on the flat and some what level beach is being taken back allot slower than the sand on a steep slope like that. 
the bales are way way way deep if they are needed to stop the waves. 


take some pictures of the site 10 days from completion 20 days 30 days 40 days. It would be very interesting to see the evolution of the shore line.


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

We did something like that this summer also


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## R.G.PEEL (Oct 27, 2010)

I think that that would be an interesting followup to see several pics following. Important part is that I'm assuming he got paid handsomely for those nice kubotas and at the end of the day, that's what counts.


I am sorry if I've now turned this into an armourstone link. That's nice work boys but lets start a seperate link for this stuff and I'll post lots of pics of some fancy installs ppl have hired us for. My brother in law works for a quarry in Bobcaygeon and I do a lot of installs.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

ok let me explain this to myself because this is the only logical answer to it....

The bales are set so deep because over the next 12 months the waves will take hundreds of yrads of sand from IN FRONT OF THEM and wash it into the sea, this will leave the bales fully exposed and at that time it is either time to do it again or add sand in front of them to prevent them from being pulled into the water. After they are pulled into the water this will cause the whole hillside to dramatically drop off. 

I could be right i could be wrong but thats the only answer i see working.


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## newhere (Oct 13, 2009)

R.G, i have some pictures of rock im looking to find. All i know is it came from canada and is VERY common it areas. What areas i do not know. I will upload some soon and maybe you have seen it before?? 

looks like big hunks of swiss cheese with moss and little trees and plants growing all over it.


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

this is what they do around here, but it would probably look pretty ugly there so i dont reccomend it


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## riverwalkland (Dec 26, 2007)

Whoever thinks hay bails disappear in a year is nuts. We have hay bails around the property that are over 15 years old, some of which are sitting in swampy areas and the outside few inches are rotten but if you open them up they are dry as day inside. I think this is a clever idea, and will probably work through the winter just fine. The only thing I might have done is left a little bit of the bail above ground so that rain and a few big waves don't bring sand down on top of the bails and allow the dune to erode by passing right over top of them, but that is probably unlikely. Good work!.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

R.G.PEEL;1128334 said:


> I think that that would be an interesting followup to see several pics following. Important part is that I'm assuming he got paid handsomely for those nice kubotas and at the end of the day, that's what counts.


At the end of the day, that is what it all comes down to and we all know it. I did well on this project, so I am really hoping that this will work out good because if it does, I will have a lot more of the work lined up for spring. With that said, I will be taking photographs of this over time to really see how it works out.


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## cubanb343 (Dec 13, 2007)

If those people want to save their houses for real they need to pay the money to drive sheets and make the "ugly sea wall". Other than that, fighting beach erosion is a losing battle


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## R.G.PEEL (Oct 27, 2010)

cubanb343;1128702 said:


> If those people want to save their houses for real they need to pay the money to drive sheets and make the "ugly sea wall". Other than that, fighting beach erosion is a losing battle


Steel does work great, many properties on the Toronto shoreline have had them for decades. If the looks aren't acceptable, There are countless other permanent solutions as well. Besides the stone and gabian methods already posted by myself and several others, there are engineered products from companies such as terrafix which invove geotextile wraps among others. There are many ways to do it, according to the other posts, hay bales work. I would love to see the pics when time has passed so that we can see them doing their job.

The only reason that I suggested the rock is because I find customers will spend the extra money because it is so pleasing to look at/permanent and I can make huge profit margins installing it. In the pictures of this project, those same kubota tractors and the excavator could build these types of walls (as opposed to hiring pile drivers for steel) and make an even better return.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Living the dream...............Sacriledge to post on plowsite but that's the retirement I'm working for.... Kubota's on the Beach. Beach,babes and bota's ahhhhhh


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## R.G.PEEL (Oct 27, 2010)

That is a dreamy job, but you and your Kubota would miss freezing your ass off in the white stuff and you know it.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

R.G.PEEL;1128751 said:


> That is a dreamy job, but you and your Kubota would miss freezing your ass off in the white stuff and you know it.


The salt spray and white sand will be enough to confuse me at the age I'll be at to afford it.


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## cubanb343 (Dec 13, 2007)

R.G.PEEL;1128742 said:


> Steel does work great, many properties on the Toronto shoreline have had them for decades. If the looks aren't acceptable, There are countless other permanent solutions as well. Besides the stone and gabian methods already posted by myself and several others, there are engineered products from companies such as terrafix which invove geotextile wraps among others. There are many ways to do it, according to the other posts, hay bales work. I would love to see the pics when time has passed so that we can see them doing their job.
> 
> The only reason that I suggested the rock is because I find customers will spend the extra money because it is so pleasing to look at/permanent and I can make huge profit margins installing it. In the pictures of this project, those same kubota tractors and the excavator could build these types of walls (as opposed to hiring pile drivers for steel) and make an even better return.


The stone walls are beautiful!


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## R.G.PEEL (Oct 27, 2010)

cubanb343;1128791 said:


> The stone walls are beautiful!


Check out my profile there are other pics and more coming. or look up R.G. Peel construction on facebook.


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## PTSolutions (Dec 8, 2007)

I immediately thought gabion baskets as well, but that soft wire in the baskets would probably rust out really quickly in that salt/sea spray. Plus there can be huge issues about the type of stone you use inside the baskets. Recycled concrete can be an issue due to the lime leaching out into the water.

Again, this depends on the local regulations you have.

But anyways, looks good MerrieMac!

btw, how are those 7040's holding up? i found 5 of them, low hour and good prices in PA that i'm considering utilizing for snow blowing drives.


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## greywynd (Dec 13, 2008)

I suspect I know which quarry you are referring to, chances are I've used stone from it myself. I seem to do a couple stone jobs each year, I always enjoy doing them, and yes, if done right, it looks great and has a decent profit margin. 

The only shoreline work I've done so far was a 700' long stretch for erosion control, the specs were all set out by the permits, so we had to work with what they gave us. Had to use a layer of landscape fabric, and then cover it with 4-16" gabion stone (loose) with specified max/min slopes on the final grading.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

ProTouchGrounds;1128869 said:


> btw, how are those 7040's holding up? i found 5 of them, low hour and good prices in PA that i'm considering utilizing for snow blowing drives.


So far they have been treating me very well. They are very comfortable to operate, they do what I ask of them, theres not much more I can ask of them than that! But keep in mind I only have 120 hours on one of them and I have like 18 hours on the other one.


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## dieseld (Dec 30, 2005)

Wow, alot of deleted posts here.


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