# Contract types



## UniqueTouch (Dec 25, 2013)

Client owns a property ( small strip mall) with four stores. one push per storm and salting at the end. anyone ever have a request like this? If so whos liable if someone falls because lot isn't done yet because it is still only mid way through the storm? any suggestions on how to word contract. thanks


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Yeah run 
They sign your contract or don't do it 
Im being sued over a slip and fall 4 days after it snowed at a car dealership 
The salesman clean the snow off cars and it froze and he fell in that 
My contract saved me still a pain to go through but it just got dismissed after 3 years 
So moral make everyone sign your contract


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## UniqueTouch (Dec 25, 2013)

Wow that's insane , everyone always trying to get a free buck, scum bags and we get screwed with crazy prices for insurance. What did you put in your contract that made you clear of any liability if you don't mind me asking , I've never done the contract part always just the labor for family or another company and I have two places I want to do but am nervous because I don't know how to contract it


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## UniqueTouch (Dec 25, 2013)

She said she would sign a contract but wondering if I should tell her I only do ever two inches for stores with heavy foot traffic , I have a contract just not sure if it covers me bulletproof


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Roughly we get paid to pre salt 
Then we salt any storm 1 inch or less
After that we start plowing at 1 inch and keep main roads and side walks open through out storm then plowing with the storm 
After storm entire lot all side walk fire hydrants garbages bins will be open and salted or calcium 
If it is a hilly lot or extra high traffic we will keep salting every time we are there or shady 
Most lots get pre salt and a final salt when storm over 
I'm not responsible for lots after 7 hours 
We always go back next morning around 3am to check for spots where cars were and re feeeze they get billed 
We aren't responsible for slip and falls means nothing 
Not responsible for snow/ice between cars 
You should really check with a local lawyer and pay one to write u up a contract or two 
One seasonal and one per visit


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## UniqueTouch (Dec 25, 2013)

Okay appreciate it very much thank you for all your help


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

To answer your question no I've never had a request like this for a commercial property. All my Residential's are one visit after the storm but that is by design. The only Residential's I will contract with are 2nd or 3rd homes and they have the plowing set up to stay in compliance with city ordinance which says sidewalks have to be clear 24 hours after the storm has stopped.

For a business this is crazy. I live in the southwest and we have a totally different philosophy about snow. We get 100" plus a year here and everyone just accepts that we live and work in the mountains and snow is a way of life. Totally different than Jersey where it seems like even a flake of snow on the ground is unacceptable to the majority of the population. Even here 4" is the highest trigger we have, and that's for the schools. All my retail and hotels are 2" trigger. So to hear that someone in Jersey wants something like that seems really strange and should throw lots of red flags. 

I would explain to the customer that not only should that kind of liability be unacceptable to them, it is unacceptable for you take that on as well. You can also explain that it would be too hard on your equipment. Offer standard service and they can take it or leave it. If they take it, follow all the good advice pony boy gave you about contracts, especially operating in Jersey. And make certain that you perform up to the standards set in the contract.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Around here most places are around 1", 2" if it's a very low traffic area. I'm not sure about everywhere else, but here we are like ponyboy. Even if the plow trigger isn't met, salt is applied to melt the ice/snow under trigger.

I actually just had my first commercial quote for myself (not as a sub). The customer wanted me to wait until plow trigger was met to do anything, and it would be a service call before or after. This was talked about only through email (and they are all printed in a file for my records) and after I explained that I don't do all the extra work to make more money and screw my customer's, but instead to keep their workers and customers safe and to keep liability as low as possible for both of us. It look a little back and forth, and a phone call, but he ended up letting me do it the way I wanted (I would have walked) and everything is at my discretion. I think uneducated customers are a huge problem, even when I did residential. Teach them what you can, and don't do jobs you don't feel comfortable with.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Yeah any monkey and cut lawns with relative low risk 
Snow you can lose everything with one wrong place 
It's something you need to take serious and stand your ground on


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

UniqueTouch said:


> Client owns a property ( small strip mall) with four stores. one push per storm and salting at the end. anyone ever have a request like this? If so whos liable if someone falls because lot isn't done yet because it is still only mid way through the storm? any suggestions on how to word contract. thanks


That's crazy and you no matter how you word your contract are still on the hook for slip and falls.

The only thing your contract does in regards to that is say stop the owner of the place from suing you but it does not stop someone else from suing you.

I would tell the owner that a 2" trigger is the only way you would plow the place.

If they don't agree run not walk away from this.

And New Jersey, hearing other guys from there talking about how high insurance is from slip and falls, your just asking for trouble if you do a contract like this.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Come to think of it, you're the guy who's kind of taking over the business from your father right? Starting out bidding, and running the business side of things, I think I would pass on this one. This business is stressful enough without having to worry about how you're going to plow a foot of snow out of a busy shopping center without having a slip and fall in the mean time. Plus, if they're stingy on plowing, I can't imagine the phone calls and/or emails you'll get after an invoice from an ice storm you salted multiple times.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

I keep saying if you want to covered 100% take a national company contract 12 pages put your name there make the client sign where u would and let them sign 
My insurance agent won't let me sign any national contract on their terms we have our counter but point is you need to have ability to pre salt push evryv2 inches starting at 1 inch and salt during if icy and when done if not you have to walk away 
You have to do what you as the professional needs to do and cover your ass and your clients because they will get sued as well as you 
And honestly it's close to same price to do it the correct way rather then wait till end push all the packed down snow damage your truck and then salt 
Also in sure the store owners want it clean as possible during business hours so they make money to pay the owner so customers have to see it's open for business 
Cheap customers will give you the biggest head aches in the end one reason I would never work for any one who thinks they will call me and tell me when to plow or salt


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## UniqueTouch (Dec 25, 2013)

okay guys appreciate it I passed on it. thank you. I called my lawyer about a contract and he sent me templates lol. Does anyone have a link to one of those contracts which will definitely state not responsible for slip and falls? would like to try and use at two other locations, the contacts seem cool and pretty much up to signing anything at this moment because of up coming storm approaching, thank you


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## UniqueTouch (Dec 25, 2013)

just seen your early post about about there is no way of wording it like that okay, so disappointed . appreciate everyones help


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