# Does this seem fair???LONG



## SIXINAROW1 (Feb 4, 2014)

OK I need to see if this is an over charge or to see if this is fair price to the more experienced snow plow guys.
I do my work site only. Its an auto auction and a lot of other work is done in order for my piece of mind and for us to open up and run the business correctly.
The guy I am doing his as a sub worker as we have worked together in the past and he understands how I want it done and he has other responsibilities. He has submitted bills the other day for the snow removal I've been doing, so the process of getting paid will begin.
I'll just give you the total accumulations for the bill I have
Dec 10.5 inches $1300.00
Jan 21 inches $2600
Feb 22 inches $2750 
Total inches 53.5
Total $6650
Now here is the messed up part.
I plow for my Boss(who's cheap and expects it for the cheap)
After the bill were submitted my boss asked me why I wasn't billing him direct. I said cause I was doing it for my friend and I have no idea on what to charge as a lot of extra work is done rather than just plowing. 
He said $3325 seems a bit high. He asked me what would I have charged, I don't know. 
I don't know how to handle either my Boss or the guy I'm doing the work for.
IMO it seems fair as I've given up a lot of my time doing snow removal this year and I've had some damage(my fault) to my truck that needs to get fixed. This is my own personal truck that I've spent a lot of time and money getting it to where it is today. Diesel fuel and just basic maintience on this isn't really cheap
So my question is???
How do I figure out what is a fair price? 
How do I not piss off the guy I'm plowing for?
What do I do for next year?
I really want to sell the plow cause it hard on my only vehicle


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

Your just doing one place? And it's hard on your vehicle? Are you plowing with the storm?
Ramming banks?
Are those snow falls all at once of over the month?


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## goel (Nov 23, 2010)

Total accumulations are worthless. How many events? How long of work on average event?


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## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

SIXINAROW1;1775041 said:


> OK I need to see if this is an over charge or to see if this is fair price to the more experienced snow plow guys.
> I do my work site only. Its an auto auction and a lot of other work is done in order for my piece of mind and for us to open up and run the business correctly.
> The guy I am doing his as a sub worker as we have worked together in the past and he understands how I want it done and he has other responsibilities. He has submitted bills the other day for the snow removal I've been doing, so the process of getting paid will begin.
> I'll just give you the total accumulations for the bill I have
> ...


You and the guy you're plowing for should have set a price on things ahead of time, whether it be by the hour, inch, push, job, whatever it may be. All this should have been done before work started.


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## SIXINAROW1 (Feb 4, 2014)

Dec 3 events hours are 12+/-
Jan 4 events hours are 16+/-
Feb 4 events hours are 18+/-
I realize it should have been discussed before but we never did. He was the maintence man at this building and is good friends with the owner, and Ive worked with him before.
When I got the truck with the plow I gave my boss a very fair estimate on plowing the lot. He just threw it in the trash. He said that what I pay rent for. So now comes the time to pay for it and he's crying about the bill.
Yes just one place. My auto auction and the road leading into our parking lot.
I start when the storm is just about over. I take my time and don't beat on the truck at all. Wherever the snow is pushed its piled up from there. I don't ram the banks at all. There is plenty of space for the snow.
I realize I did it all wrong this year but I need to correct it for future snow falls. Ones coming this Sun into Monday.But I need some form of money from past work. He will drag not paying until the summer.


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

How are you damaging your truck? Pushing too much snow!!


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

How big is this place? Cause it sounds like you're severely over charged. $150+ an hour for a snow storm?

Always push with the storm. Your customer shouldn't have to oay for your inexperience


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

wilsonsground;1775056 said:


> You and the guy you're plowing for should have set a price on things ahead of time, whether it be by the hour, inch, push, job, whatever it may be. All this should have been done before work started.


x2

Terms should've been discussed prior to any work being performed. Pretty much rule #1.

But now that you've done the work maybe ask your boss what he thinks is fair. It's going to be a low number but then explain to him how you arrived at your figures.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm confused. Who loses money if it isn't plowed...? Being nice and being a sucker go hand in hand in this business. If you can't afford fuel to plow this lot you can't afford to plow this lot...


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

Why are you billing for 3 months all at once?


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## SIXINAROW1 (Feb 4, 2014)

The guy I'm doing the work for is doing the billing and he takes his time doing it. My Boss would lose business if the place isn't opened. Used car dealers will come out in any weather to buy a car. They think they will get it cheaper because it's snowing out. I have experience but made a few mistakes. They way I figure it if I was home and he actually had a plow company come and do it then there wouldn't be any damage to my truck. But since I'm a sucker/nice guy I go and plow. 
The lot is big so it can hold all our inventory for our weekly auction. I don't think $150 an hour it out of place with the work that is done. The lot is always opened up, cars snow broomed off, moved, plowed where they were and then parked where they need to be. The lot is down to asphalt when everything is done the way I do it


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

150 is generally skid steer rates. What kind of damage exactly did you do to your truck.


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

Pictures of the lot?


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

You have two boss's? I don't get this. If you are plowing for someone else then why are you sending a bill to the owner of the auction place?


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

I'm confused by the whole scenario too but I would say if you expect to make 150 an hour as a sub in a little truck your expectations are probably too high for this business. It can be hard on trucks but and you will break stuff but that doesn't mean you send the bill to the owner. It's a cost of doing business. Your rates should be discussed up front. I would be willing to bet that they could easily get two 3/4- 1 ton pickups as subs for the price you want for 1 and that would be a fair rate.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

Whiffyspark;1775352 said:


> 150 is generally skid steer rates. What kind of damage exactly did you do to your truck.


I wish I could get 150/hr for a skidsteer. I feel like the rates are pretty good around here too at least compared to most of what I see on here.


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## Kevin_NJ (Jul 24, 2003)

He said the cars are cleaned off and moved so the area the car was parked during the event is now clean as well. Wouldn't that additional labor increase the per hour rate compared to just sitting in the truck and plowing around the cars? I'm not sure if it would call for $150/hr, but its gotta be more than what a driver never getting out of the truck would get.

Regarding getting your money, I too am confused about who you are working for and why you're doing work without knowing how much you're getting paid, when you will get paid, and who will be paying you. With that said, best of luck, hope you get paid somehow, and learned from the whole experience.


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

If he's billing hourly, he's charging $150hr to clean and move cars. As was prev stated, you could probably find 2 trucks for that price and be done in 1/2 the time.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

I read this again,I think he is subbing for a guy who has the contract on this place,The sub is the employee of the lot owner,I think the boss wanted to know why he is not doing it himself and billing him instead of having a middle man.I think?


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

The other thing is, cleaning and moving cars isn't worth 150 an hour or even 75 an hour. I guarantee you could find a young guy or anyone for that matter to do it for 25-30 an hour but let's say for the sake of argument that you can't. Throw an ad on craigslist and offer $50 an hour to clean and move cars. I guarantee your phone wouldn't stop ringing for days. You would have your pick. It's not worth more money to do that. I would suspect you could easily find a responsible person for 20-25 an hour to clean the cars off and move them- it certainly wouldn't drive the plowing rate UP, if anything it should go down or just stay the same. It's kind of like shoveling- a lot of guys don't like it but I can't charge the same for shoveling that I do for plowing, it just won't happen.


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## allagashpm (Sep 29, 2012)

You ask how to determine a fair price etc but you said you already gave your boss a fair price and he threw it away. Well what was your price and how does it match up? My guess it was very low. Also if you're a sub how much of that is going in your pocket? If your billed out at 150hr its not all yours. Do you have insurance?


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## SIXINAROW1 (Feb 4, 2014)

It went by the inches from every snow.2-4in X amount of $ ect. I didn't keep the file because I didn't think I'd be doing the work. My whole plan was to sell the plow or just let in sit in the warehouse.
Its my own personal truck so I have insurance.
I I read this again,I think he is subbing for a guy who has the contract on this place,The sub is the employee of the lot owner,I think the boss wanted to know why he is not doing it himself and billing him instead of having a middle man.

I am the manager at my job and needed/wanted it done the correct way so I asked to do it. Now my boss is balking about the price because he doesn't know why another guy is billing him. We did it this way so I would get paid since my Boss thinks he gets it for free. 
Thanks for all the replies but I'm so PO'd right now I don't want any money. Sure it be nice but everything is a big hassle with my boss.
Fisher MM2 plow for sale *SOON*


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## SIXINAROW1 (Feb 4, 2014)

I had the guy I'm doing the work for redo the $6600 bill, to reflect that I did the job for free. What he adjusted the bill to I don't know. I asked for just $500 from him. Which I got today. Now my Boss is asking for a bill. If you read or contributed to this and in any way and understand it. What would you charge him?????


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

Your guy redid the bill gave you 500 and now your boss wants a bill from you or him ?


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

You can either bill hourly or for the lot. It's tough for anyone to give you a price per inch without seeing the lot. Hourly- depends on your truck, plow, market. I would say 150 way too high for a truck.


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## SIXINAROW1 (Feb 4, 2014)

We'll the way it went down..... Was he got his money minus the bill to my Boss. I figure he got his $6600 from the owner of the building. The guys a multi millionaire (once owned a BMW Dealership) Plus the guys been doing it for 15 plus years for him.

Now my Boss figures/wants to pay me something.
He asking for an invoice from me 
What do I charge him??? 
Mind you he's cheap and this will ALL be corrected next year before my snow plow hits the first snow fall. If I keep the plow


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

SIXINAROW1;1779384 said:


> We'll the way it went down..... Was he got his money minus the bill to my Boss. I figure he got his $6600 from the owner of the building. The guys a multi millionaire (once owned a BMW Dealership) Plus the guys been doing it for 15 plus years for him.
> 
> Now my Boss figures/wants to pay me something.
> He asking for an invoice from me
> ...


Wait a minute.

The guy charged him 150 an hour and you didn't get **** from him?

He should be paying you a minimum on 75 an hour.


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

I've read this thread twice and I am still having trouble figuring this out


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

peteo1;1779481 said:


> I've read this thread twice and I am still having trouble figuring this out


Thumbs Up


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

peteo1;1779481 said:


> I've read this thread twice and I am still having trouble figuring this out


I'm lost to


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

This guy completely screwed himself and got screwed by someone and wants us to figure it all out.

It doesn't matter what we say, he has no control over what he gets paid and it doesn't seem like anyone in this situation has a clue.

You need to go get two news boss's/jobs.

<<<<THREAD CLOSED>>>>


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## SIXINAROW1 (Feb 4, 2014)

I 100% agree Won't happen again. That's for sure. It's a lot different plowing for someone as a sub then going in and punching in on the time clock and plowing that lot.
Very costly mistake on my part.
Thanks guys for all the help


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

SIXINAROW1;1779727 said:


> I 100% agree Won't happen again. That's for sure. It's a lot different plowing for someone as a sub then going in and punching in on the time clock and plowing that lot.
> Very costly mistake on my part.
> Thanks guys for all the help


Personally man the guy you plowed for screwed the hell out of you. He should have been paying you 75 or so an hour. Not pocketing everything


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## SIXINAROW1 (Feb 4, 2014)

Update
Billed my boss for the snow removal $1662. That was 1/4 of the bill. billing was done @$125 an hr. This pays for my fuel, repairs to my truck and that is it.
When the acct asked what it was for I told him just that. His reply was don't you expect to make a profit. I said apparently I cant make any money

Next years snow removal will be handled differently


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

SIXINAROW1;1784549 said:


> Update
> Billed my boss for the snow removal $1662. That was 1/4 of the bill. billing was done @$125 an hr. This pays for my fuel, repairs to my truck and that is it.
> When the acct asked what it was for I told him just that. His reply was don't you expect to make a profit. I said apparently I cant make any money
> 
> Next years snow removal will be handled differently


$125 an hour is damn good money for a little truck.....10 wheelers don't make that without a sander in them and that's probably about what they make with the full set up for the state here.


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

So you only charged him for a little over 13 hours for the season ?


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## SIXINAROW1 (Feb 4, 2014)

Basically I charged him for my cost of fuel the new parts I needed for my truck(my damage I wasn't really paying attention)and what is will cost to get the rust repaired and my bed repainted.
I didn't charge him a dime for all the early hours I started to clear the lot so we could open up by 9am.
This year was a wake up call for me and wont happen next year. The plow can sit until I have a contract for services being rendered.


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