# 4x4 not working?



## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

I just tried out my 4-wheel drive today.
I put it in 4-wheel high, and had my plow hooked-up. 
I tried pushing a car frame/body across bare cement, and I spun the right rear tire....now should this be happening when in 4-wheel drive?

Also, in 4-wheel high, in reverse, I can spin the right rear tire just going over a 5" curb.

What gives?

Now, when I turn the tires they do that "thing" that 4x4's do when turning (wheel skip I guess you'd call it), which leads me to think that the 4-wheel drive is working, but I'm stumped why the right rear tire would spin so easily.....

New transfer case, new transmission, rebuilt 350
84 Chevy 4x4 2500HD


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## vector6 (Aug 6, 2003)

open rear gears.. ?


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## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by vector6 _
> *open rear gears.. ? *


What's that mean???


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## vector6 (Aug 6, 2003)

a non lock rear end... not posi traction, which would account for the single rear wheel spin, 
vrs both (locker)


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## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

posi traction....I have 4-wheel drive.
I am thinking maybe the actuator, or vacuum lines?


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## vector6 (Aug 6, 2003)

if it's in 4wd and doing that skipping thing while turning.. the 4wd is working..

as far as the wheel spin is this when your in 4wd or 2wd ?


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## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

in 2 OR 4-wheel drive
forward, OR reverse


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## rsimpson04 (Nov 3, 2003)

*rear spin*

Dave,

Does the right rear spin a lot, or just chirp?
The rear is not posi.

If the right rear spins a lot and front does not hook up, start looking for the problem.

If the rear chirps and then the front hooks up, I would not be too concerned.

Recommend take out in dirt and give it a good hard throttle test.
let me know results.

I am an electronic tech retired from Navy with a major mechanical background, so I have played with many toys over the years and do not plan on stopping, so hopefully I can be of some assist.

Rory


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## vector6 (Aug 6, 2003)

ohh.. do you happen to have a grassy flat area , and some one to watch the truck from outside as you try it out ?

this will definatly let you know if the 4wd is active..


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## vector6 (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: rear spin*



> _Originally posted by rsimpson04 _
> *
> 
> If the right rear spins a lot and front does not hook up, start looking for the problem.
> ...


 this is where i was going..! lol


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## rsimpson04 (Nov 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: rear spin*



> _Originally posted by vector6 _
> *this is where i was going..! lol *


Hello Vector6,

Would that be West (By God) Virginia?...lol

I'm from Western NY originally but reside in N.E. CT due to Navy and decent follow on job still supporting our submarine fleet.

I've met and worked with many good people during my Navy tour from West VA. I have an Uncle somewhat near there over near Roanaoke on Smith Mountain Lake. I need to go see him.

Take care,

Rory


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## vector6 (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: rear spin*



> _Originally posted by rsimpson04 _
> *Hello Vector6,
> 
> Would that be West (By God) Virginia?...lol
> ...


 yes... West (By God) Virginia..

and im former Navy as well, from the HM community .(Helmineron, Helicopter mine sweeping)

I was a hydraulics mechanic on MH53E's

good to meet ya Rory..:waving:


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## ratlover (May 5, 2003)

You could have one front spinning and one rear spinning in a 4x4. You sure you wernt spinning a front tire also?

Manual or auto hubs?


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## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

auto hubs, only one tire spinning, and spinning fast (not chirping).
I will try it on my gravel road with someone watching to see what happens.....


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

If the transfer case is properly engaged,and sending power down the front driveshaft,then it sounds like you have a bad hub.Without a posi in the front,one bad hub will cause a no drive condition from the front wheels.

Junk the suto hubs and get a set of Warn premium hubs.


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## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

So I should replace the auto hubs with manual hubs then?
Doesn't sound like something that I want to do....


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

The auto hubs are garbage and unreliable,as you just found out.The Warn premium hubs are much stronger,and virtually trouble free.When you lock them,they are locked.


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## EZSnow (Aug 13, 2003)

all it would take is one bad hub, right? in a open diff it would act like that tire has no traction, spin the easiest rear and the easiest (broken) front. 

Don't the hubs usually make some clicking/grinding as they fail/slip? I'd go manual if I were you... and if the autos on my 'duty ever fail, I will.


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

> _Originally posted by EZSnow _
> *all it would take is one bad hub, right? in a open diff it would act like that tire has no traction, spin the easiest rear and the easiest (broken) front.
> 
> Don't the hubs usually make some clicking/grinding as they fail/slip? I'd go manual if I were you... and if the autos on my 'duty ever fail, I will. *


Yes,all it takes is one bad hub,as all (most) front diffs are open,so the broken hub just spins,and no power is applied to the other side.

The hubs will sometimes make noise if they have come apart inside.When they stick or sieze,they will make no noise at all.


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## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

how difficult would it be to change from auto to manual hubs? and is this a one person (me) type of job?


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## EZSnow (Aug 13, 2003)

I think you can change them on the ground, wheels on the truck... At least a friend of mine did on his ford.


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## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

now *that* would be nice 
....but I can't see working on the hubs with leaving the tires on, and on the ground at that...but then again, I've *never* worked on hubs before! Is there and parts that will need added to the transfer case when the switch is done?


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

The hubs are pretty easy to change.They don't hold the wheel on or support any weight,so you don't need to take anything off or jack it up.You unblt the outer hub,and then remove the snap rings on the inner hub.The new manual hubs go in in a very similar fashion.Warn's come with very good instructions,so you should be fine.

You will need some allen keys,snap ring pliers,and a small flat screwdriver to change them.Some good salt proof marine grease is good to lightly lube them upon installation.


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## EZSnow (Aug 13, 2003)

you don't have a full-time 4x4 setup, do ya?


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## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by EZSnow _
> *you don't have a full-time 4x4 setup, do ya? *


yes I do (auto hubs)


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## Alan (Mar 2, 2000)

Automatic hubs DO NOT make it a full time four wheel drive. All they do is (when they work) save from getting out to lock hubs when you want to use 4wd. They have proven themselves to be less than reliable and are best replaced wtih manual hubs.


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## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

OK, now I'm confused.

I don't have locking hubs, and I'm told that when it's auto hubs, then it's full-time 4-wheel drive.
When you have locking hubs, you have part-time 4-wheel drive.

So, now that's apparantely wrong....please enlighten me as to what makes full-time 4-wheel drive, and what makes part-time 4-wheel drive?

I shift in the cab to 4-wheel, and that's all....

David


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## wyldman (Jan 18, 2001)

Part-time 4WD is only for part time use,and can have either manual or auto hubs.

full-time 4WD will usually have some sort of center differential built into the transfer case,so there is very little driveline windup on dry surfaces.They will usually have different shift position as well,so you can select part-time or full time,or lock the center differential.A lot of Jeeps are like this,as well as the older full size trucks that used the NP203 transfer case.

Your truck should have an NP208 case,which is part time 4WD.The auto hubs only lock when you put it 4WD,and power is sent down the front driveshaft.They aren't locked all the time.


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## ratlover (May 5, 2003)

What does your Tcase shifter say on it? What do the things poking out of the center front wheels look like?(any dial, just flat caps, kinda protruding caps that have screws in em) Does the transfer case look like it is aluminum or cast iron? There should be a little round disk on the back of the case with a nuber like 208 or 203. Someone might have swaped cases on you. 

Changing hubs is easy....most PITA part is the snap rings. Dont overlube things. Dont worry if the axel kinda pulls out and you cant get the new hub on.....just gota push it in(prying on the U joint or just pushing on the end of the axel) Lube the sealing O rings. Spend the extra couple of $$$ on premiums. Warn makes good ones and milemarker are ok too. 

New hubs might not fix things but auto hubs(if you have em) have a habbit of puking. And it just takes one to turn your 4x4 into a 2wd :angry: since you dont have a limited slip or a locker up front unless someone added it and then you would know big time. You think a 4x4 pushes bad with a open diff up front?


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## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

I went out and bought new *Warn Premium *locking hubs this afternoon, and installed them within the hour. It was *alot* easier than I'd expected!

I haven't tried them out yet, since I don't feel like jacking the truck up tonight (it's dark now).

I'll let you all know if it works or not (it should I hope!!!)

Thanks for all your suggestions guys/gals!

David


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## rsimpson04 (Nov 3, 2003)

David and ALCON,
Good overall 4WD learning experience.
Nice to meet all.
Rory


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## David Smith (Oct 16, 2003)

Worked like a charm, switching to manual hubs.....although I don't like the idea of getting out and switching the hubs over everytime 
Ah well..I'll get over my laziness eventually


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## tuna (Nov 2, 2002)

I know this is a moot point now but the 203 full time case was disscontiniued after 79,it is probably a 208 .


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