# Arctic Vs. Metal Pless which is the better value?



## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

a buddy of mine and myself are shopping for pushers for next season. we are debating the cost of ownership for both of these pushers since we only receive 50-60 inches of snow per season, and both a pricey pushers. on one hand the Metal pless looks like its built a bit stronger without the rubber blocks, but also is more expensive, where as the artic is a little bit cheaper but you have the blocks that i would assume break often and cost around $90.00 a piece. both seem to scrape about the same, so any additional info you guys have would be great. we are shopping in the 12' box range.

Thanks!

**Edit $90.00 per block


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

If you're paying $190 per block you're getting raped.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

everything in CT is expensive, i was quoted 14k + the coupler for a 12' skid height MP live edge box and 9k for the equivalent Arctic.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

That's like wheel loader box pricing on the MP. A little high on the sectional but not as bad.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

I was running all arctics, now I run all metal pless. Best move I ever made. My oldest live edge which has 5 seasons on it now, still has more then 2/3 carbide left. At this pace I should get 12-15 seasons out of my cutting edges. I was getting less then 2 seasons out of my arctic cutting edges. When I owned 4 Arctic’s I was spending about $1200-$1,500 per season on rubber blocks, and that’s not even including the labor and down time lost from changing them out. Supposedly the blocks don’t break anymore with the limiter kits. The live edge can make any operator look like a superstar, but if you give a inexperienced operator a Arctic, he will bring you back a mangled and broken pusher at the end of the storm


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

The new sectionals have limiters that lesson the block problem severely.

Plenty of online dealers sell them cheaper than 90.00. If your interested in newer used boxes at a discounted price, PM me.

The live edge is nice unit, pricey but a nice unit.

Good luck on either chioce.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)




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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Where did you get the price for the MP from? I paid $14k for a 18’ with a coupler just this past fall. Need to call Scott at DDWS in Somers


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Snow fighter, how does the MP handle the wet heavy snow of New England?


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

From Tyler Volvo, extreme snow pros in NY, and a guy in NH


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Where r u in mass? I’d like to watch them in action for a storm if possible and you didn’t mind.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Handles it way better then a Arctic would. When we would get heavy wet snow or several inches of sleet , breaking half the blocks on a pusher wasn’t un common. I would cringe watching my operator’s going into a piles, knowing that it probably just cost me a few hundred bucks


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

I’m in Westfield


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

I will let you run it for a whole storm if you want. I’m not one to pass up free labor, lol


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Masssnowfighter said:


> Handles it way better then a Arctic would. When we would get heavy wet snow or several inches of sleet , breaking half the blocks on a pusher wasn't un common. I would cringe watching my operator's going into a piles, knowing that it probably just cost me a few hundred bucks


You need better operators or something.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Broke three blocks on 7 Arctic's all year on 92" of snow... Stop letting your kids run the machines for sure...


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

We gave just


Masssnowfighter said:


> I will let you run it for a whole storm if you want. I'm not one to pass up free labor, lol


You would probably let him run it for the season if he wanted wouldnt you?


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

When you are pushing nice fluffy powder, block breakage is a non-issue. But when you are pushing 3-4 inches of snow that has the consistency of dirt, rubber blocks fail and fail miserably no matter how gentle you try to be


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

I probly would too... lol I love doing snow, we don’t get enough of it in CT. I’ll bring my new spray rig up.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Even without worrying about rubber blocks as the Arctic get older you break numberous cutting edge trip springs and every once in a while the sections get caught on one another. The Arctic scrapes just as well but the Live Edge is just a better heavier design. It will be interesting to see what a MP looks like in 5-10 years though.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Yeah does anyone have a 10+ year old MP?


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Masssnowfighter said:


> When you are pushing nice fluffy powder, block breakage is a non-issue. But when you are pushing 3-4 inches of snow that has the consistency of dirt, rubber blocks fail and fail miserably no matter how gentle you try to be


It's not like you're the only one that has to deal with snocrete that's like plowing mud.

I'm sorry it's the operators breaking them, not a poor product. If you put stupid in you get stupid out.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

It only snows wet snow out East... I couldnt even tell you how to change a trip spring since one has never broke...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Ajlawn1 said:


> It only snows wet snow out East... I couldnt even tell you how to change a trip spring since one has never broke...


I've never changed one either.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

I have changed them on a few, not that fun of a job. If anyone is need of the spring changing tool I have one I no longer need


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> It's not like you're the only one that has to deal with snocrete that's like plowing mud.
> 
> I'm sorry it's the operators breaking them, not a poor product. If you put stupid in you get stupid out.


I have never changed one either, bought my sectional a few years ago used.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

I know each brand has a cult following, I’m just trying to get at which pusher has the least cost of ownership, or the lower cost per hour to operate, and most important which one scrapes better. I hit some hard stuff with my boss pusher in my 11k on skid steer that stopped me dead in my tracks and there isn’t a dent or bend in it.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> It's not like you're the only one that has to deal with snocrete that's like plowing mud.
> 
> I'm sorry it's the operators breaking them, not a poor product. If you put stupid in you get stupid out.


But do you deal with it on a regular basis?

IIRC, the poster in question has run Boss, Arctic and Metal Pless. Pretty sure that gives him some credibility in knowing what he'stalking about.

Haven't run any Arctics, but my 4 Metal Pless have been flawless. 2 are new this year, 1 is 2 seasons old, the other 3. Very little wear on the edges.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I have had s chance to look at a few live edge boxes but overall they are pretty much brand new. My question is with all the moving parts in the edge are you guys seeing wear with in the component of the system? My thought after looking at them after 5 seasons or so you could see lots of wear not just cutting edges. 

It seems the artics guy all complain about edge wear and the famous blocks. With a 10’ box what could I expect to spend on a 45 to 60” season


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

We bought a couple 10.5 Arctic pushers in the fall. The sites they are on received over 60” and we plowed them 23 times this year. The scrape is great and we’ve had zero issues with the blocks.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Luther said:


> We bought a couple 10.5 Arctic pushers in the fall. The sites they are on received over 60" and we plowed them 23 times this year. The scrape is great and we've had zero issues with the blocks.


Maybe if lost spinner boy could stay on the job for more than a day you could let him test it for you...


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

We love blaming him for everything, but in reality he’s just like Curlee… A Victim of circumstance.

Can’t brag that these two operators are the best either. This is the first year either of them plowed snow in skids with pushers. Just goes to show again it’s not how many years you’ve been doing something… It’s all in how you were trained to do it.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Does anybody have both that can snap some photos of a scrape comparison?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Broncslefty7 said:


> Does anybody have both that can snap some photos of a scrape comparison?


Check YouTube... Your probably splitting hairs with scrape quality TBH...


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

I did a little side by side comparison last winter. They scrape about the same. They both scraped up a fair amount of snow when going behind a boss pusher though


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Masssnowfighter said:


> I did a little side by side comparison last winter. They scrape about the same. They both scraped up a fair amount of snow when going behind a boss pusher though


Yeah you might as will leave Boss pushers out of this convo, we're not even in the same galaxy there... Been slowly weeding mine out but for a steel cutting edge box for the price they are the best available...


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

i figured that, my boss doesnt scrape for **** unless im using full down pressure in the skid, ive had it for three years and i just put my 3rd cutting edge on it.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

The boss is built like a tank for sure. When parked next to a Arctic or a MP it makes them both look inferior and underbuilt. But unfortunately it doesn’t know how to perform well. I been kicking around the idea of getting some polar flex blades made for it to see if it will do any better


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Broncslefty7 said:


> i figured that, my boss doesnt scrape for **** unless im using full down pressure in the skid, ive had it for three years and i just put my 3rd cutting edge on it.


Yeah and they are supposed to be used with the sliding quick attach not to put down pressure like that on them... They seem to burn through shoes for me...


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Yeah and they are supposed to be used with the sliding quick attach not to put down pressure like that on them... They seem to burn through shoes for me...


yeah in powder the float hitch works good until the box is full, then it just floats off of the pavement, im still using the same shoes but i have been setting my cutting edge lower then the shoes to try to improve the scrape.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Broncslefty7 said:


> Does anybody have both that can snap some photos of a scrape comparison?


If it snows again I can.

To be honest, the only difference I think you'll notice, is the snow "lines" between the cutting edge sections on the Liveedge.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Masssnowfighter said:


> The boss is built like a tank for sure. When parked next to a Arctic or a MP it makes them both look inferior and underbuilt. But unfortunately it doesn't know how to perform well. I been kicking around the idea of getting some polar flex blades made for it to see if it will do any better


im pretty sure these start around 1800-2000, im not sure it would be worth it to upfit a boss pusher with that.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Not much info on the ProTechs or Avalanche steel edge pushers.

I believe the Arctic and Metal Pless are the top 2 for scraping. I am trying to work towards as many hydraulic wing plows/pushers as I can due to their increased productivity despite the increased cost.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Last time I checked it was like $150 a foot for the polar flex. So a 16’ box would be like $2400. I think I paid around $700 for the boss edges last winter. They are reversible but they wear out very quick


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I believe the Arctic and Metal Pless are the top 2 for scraping. I am trying to work towards as many hydraulic wing plows/pushers as I can due to their increased productivity despite the fake scrape they give .


There...fixed it for ya.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Luther said:


> There...fixed it for ya.


The Arctics give a fake scrape???

Here I am being diplomatic and you get nasty right away.

I'd like to compare a Arctic hydraulic wing plow to the Metal Pless PlowMaxx....oh wait...Arctic DOESN'T make one.

Nevermind


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

For 9K,


Mark Oomkes said:


> The Arctics give a fake scrape???
> 
> Here I am being diplomatic and you get nasty right away.
> 
> ...


Been testing a couple of designs. One is wing and the other is like the XLS.

The current Wing is a power angle, simular to the sectional for the plow truck except it has hydraulic wings.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mark Oomkes said:


> But do you deal with it on a regular basis?
> 
> IIRC, the poster in question has run Boss, Arctic and Metal Pless. Pretty sure that gives him some credibility in knowing what he'stalking about.


I hate typing on my phone.

Anyways, snow type can be as regional as pricing. Yes, we all get powder. Yes, we all get cement. But in some areas they get either regularly and it does make a huge difference regarding equipment and length of routes.

When one is relatively close to the ocean, that affects air temps, just like Lake Michigan affects our temps greatly. Except the ocean doesn't freeze as much as the Great Lakes. So the snow is wet and heavy on a regular basis. I know that isn't the case in West Michigan and I bet it isn't in South Bend or Wooster, so I would kind of think the guy in Mass would have a pretty good handle on which pusher works the best in Connecticut. Especially if he's used at least 3 brands.

Then again, what do I know, I own 6000 QuickCubes.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> For 9K,
> 
> Been testing a couple of designs. One is wing and the other is like the XLS.
> 
> The current Wing is a power angle, simular to the sectional for the plow truck except it has hydraulic wings.


Interesting...after using Blizzards on different sized trucks I can tell you which way I would go with the prototypes.

Especially since with loaders and skidsteers you really can't build up enough speed to windrow effectively.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I have a boss bx12. I found to really scrape I just roll the box forward. I guy around here put 8” edges on all the Sloss skidsteer boxes this year. They said much better but no where near perfect


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Masssnowfighter said:


> When you are pushing nice fluffy powder, block breakage is a non-issue. But when you are pushing 3-4 inches of snow that has the consistency of dirt, rubber blocks fail and fail miserably no matter how gentle you try to be





Mark Oomkes said:


> I hate typing on my phone.
> 
> Anyways, snow type can be as regional as pricing. Yes, we all get powder. Yes, we all get cement. But in some areas they get either regularly and it does make a huge difference regarding equipment and length of routes.
> 
> ...


I think him just stating that in 3-4" of wet snow he's busting blocks was plain nonsense is all... The main and only spot blocks are usually broke is when Mr. operator is trying to make his pile bigger then everyone else...



Mark Oomkes said:


> Especially since with loaders and skidsteers you really can't build up enough speed to windrow effectively.


So other then back dragging where is the advantage then of wings...?



fireside said:


> I have a boss bx12. I found to really scrape I just roll the box forward. I guy around here put 8" edges on all the Sloss skidsteer boxes this year. They said much better but no where near perfect


Yes BX12 is a little different in the design then the SK10's and like Arctic a little pitch forward will scrape harder...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Ajlawn1 said:


> I think him just stating that in 3-4" of wet snow he's busting blocks was plain nonsense is all... The main and only spot blocks are usually broke is when Mr. operator is trying to make his pile bigger then everyone else...


Yes.

Stacking is where the blocks take the most stress.

We see about 50/50 concrete to fluff here. And we're talking about skid steer sized boxes here I do believe. Not loader.

If you're buying new boxes, it's a smaller debate. But used ones, it's a pretty easy decision to me.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I’m on the coast of ct like 2 miles from the beach. I see mostly heavy wet snow powdered snow is a treat here. Will I see much higher block breakage it sounds like.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

The only time we see much breakage is when newer guys are curling the boxes back to try to push snow up like a bucket, or if they ram curbs etc.

Snow consistency doesn't seem to matter at least to a noticeable difference for us for blocks breaking.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

thinking about it, in newington i get more powder than i do in hartford, but everything i have in hartford is like 1000 feet away from the river...

anyone use the HLA razor? looks like an insteresting Arctic type design without the rubber blocks.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

talk about a knock out punch :gunsfiring:


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/hla-razor-snowpusher.154813/


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

so its really a toss up, do you break enough blocks by the time you need to start replacing things on the MP to make up the difference in cost. i personally like the idea of the metal pless solid mold board, it just seems strong to me, and anything id buy at this point ill be keeping until its swiss cheese. what size would you guys put on a 13k# loader that gets 90% wet heavy snow? arctic tells me 15'.....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Half the reason for using loaders is stacking.

Then again...what do I know, I don't do close to $1.2 million in snow but I only buy new snow attachments.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

When snow allocation areas are limited, keeping your piles high and neat is a pretty important part of the process. It’s not too impressive to the customer when you have all this heavy equipment on site and your piles look they where done with a pick up truck


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

When I had mostly Arctics on site, I would always have to one loader pop a pusher off too keep the piles stacked up,which is time consuming and slows up the process. Now that I have mostly MP’s we no longer have to do that


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I never once said sectionals can't stack. I said you have to stack with them the way you're supposed to, not treat them like they're a bulldozer. Have fun paying 10-20k for new wing plows. I'll keep buying used sectionals for 3-6k. 

My 930G has the high lift option. Guess what, it's stacked as high as it'll reach this winter and I'd have to check and confirm, but I believe that box has only broken 1 block. And that was from catching the mount on a piece of busted concrete curb.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Mark and Masssnowfighter, have you guys had any issues getting parts from MP or MP dealers?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)




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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Masssnowfighter said:


> When snow allocation areas are limited, keeping your piles high and neat is a pretty important part of the process. It's not too impressive to the customer when you have all this heavy equipment on site and your piles look they where done with a pick up truck


Ok we get it you don't like Arctic, good, great whatever... It's not that they're not going to stack high... I have them on all my tight medical and high priority sites. It's when you have an idiot barreling into large piles trying to be some king dong that damages them... I'm sure a MP will pay the price behind an idiot operator too not knowing what he is doing... And besides that's why there is a bucket sitting there for stacking, hauling and push back...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Ok we get it you don't like Arctic, good, great whatever... It's not that they're not going to stack high... I have them on all my tight medical and high priority sites. It's when you have an idiot barreling into large piles trying to be some king dong that damages them... I'm sure a MP will pay the price behind an idiot operator too not knowing what he is doing... And besides that's why there is a bucket sitting there for stacking, hauling and push back...


:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Old dog, your part of the arctic company correct? Have you ever run an MP? Just curious.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

1olddogtwo said:


>


what happens to all the Cat Loaders???....


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Broncslefty7 said:


> Mark and Masssnowfighter, have you guys had any issues getting parts from MP or MP dealers?


That is one thing I would worry about with the MP. From what I have seen on here they are not that good at returning calls or customer service. They do have a fair amount of hydraulics, electronics and moving parts if you are getting a wing plow.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> what happens to all the Cat Loaders???....


Them and SS were getting too good of deals so had to switch iron...


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

No, as a matter of fact I haven't "plowed" snow since Dec 16.

I used to be a subcontractor foreman for them but I can't make the commitment anymore with my work schedule being out of town so much. It's a matter of fact I just crossed into Georgia from Florida.

I've worked with/for them for 20 years. I am personal friends with the director of operations, I know the owner, still work on his kids toys.

I have never personally even seen an MP, I am rather impressed by them, I truly am.

Everywhere in Chicagoland is Arctic equipment, it's hard to tell our lots apart from the competition. We run somewhere in the neighborhood of 450 sectionals every event, we only have 6 mechanics and a small number of sub pick trucks, and our service area is incredibly huge. It goes from the Wisconsin State Line all the way around the lake to Benton Harbor Michigan.

Finding labor to run the equipment, has become more difficult over the last few years to say the least. 4 years ago I put my other half into a machine, she plowed for the last 3 years.... This woman can barely drive .... And I'm amazed by her skills. I often use eqm and get paid my truck rate.

4 years, Arctic came out with the limiters. Block breakage is mostly a thing of the past. Randy could have changed the design of the block, but that is a safety item that is built into the plow..... Yeah nobody wants to hear about safety for a person or the machine. It's cheaper to replace a block, then a workman's comp case last I checked.

I'm hoping to head up to Silver lakes this spring, if I'll be stopping at Mark's to see them in person.

We'll, I'm burning time on my ELD, got to hit the road, I'll check back later.



Broncslefty7 said:


> Old dog, your part of the arctic company correct? Have you ever run an MP? Just curious.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Masssnowfighter said:


> When snow allocation areas are limited, keeping your piles high and neat is a pretty important part of the process. It's not too impressive to the customer when you have all this heavy equipment on site and your piles look they where done with a pick up truck


Saw this a few years back at a Meijer store. (Similar to a WallyWorld) The contractor uses Arctics and the piles were oot 3 rows of parking and one drive lane and maybe 10' high. Could have been 20' high and 1-1 1/2 rows of parking if they stacked it.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Defcon 5 said:


> what happens to all the Cat Loaders???....


That was the Oddball year we had Komatsu loaders and Cat skid steers. Been buy case for the last two years.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Broncslefty7 said:


> Mark and Masssnowfighter, have you guys had any issues getting parts from MP or MP dealers?


Haven't needed any parts.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I said you have to stack with them the way you're supposed to, not treat them like they're a bulldozer.


But with other pushers you don't have to be concerned with anything breaking if you slip on ice or catch something as happens. Or an operator that might not be as good as another. Or any of the million other possibilities that can and will happen.



John_DeereGreen said:


> Have fun paying 10-20k for new wing plows. I'll keep buying used sectionals for 3-6k.


I guess I've been skooled...I haven't gone from $150K to $1.2M in 4 short years with only 1 medium sized salt truck. I have 3 and one large capacity salt truck and don't do that much revenue.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Saw this a few years back at a Meijer store. (Similar to a WallyWorld) The contractor uses Arctics and the piles were oot 3 rows of parking and one drive lane and maybe 10' high. Could have been 20' high and 1-1 1/2 rows of parking if they stacked it.


Don't blame the machine/box for operator error. This was after multiple days of settling and melting. We had piles above the tree top this winter. 25' or so.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> I have never personally even seen an MP, I am rather impressed by them, I truly am.


And if Metal Pless wasn't available, I would be using Arctics. Despite their limitations.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Don't blame the machine/box for operator error. This was after multiple days of settling and melting. We had piles above the tree top this winter. 25' or so.
> View attachment 179699


LMAO...if that tree is 25' tall, I'm 18' tall. That tree is no more than 15' tall.

Lightpoles are 25-30' tall.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I guess I've been skooled...I haven't gone from $150K to $1.2M in 4 short years with only 1 medium sized salt truck. I have 3 and one large capacity salt truck and don't do that much revenue.


Ok. And how much do you self perform and how much do you subcontract?

Once again, you guys are hung up on the gross number...I have never once said that its all self performed.

Time to move on....


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Haven't needed any parts.


The only thing I broke was a bucket mount, the one and only weak underbuilt part of the pusher. The dealer I bought it from is a welder/fab shop so he fixed and made it bomb proof for no charge


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

You need to take his size into account....Everything looks larger to him


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> LMAO...if that tree is 25' tall, I'm 18' tall. That tree is no more than 15' tall.
> 
> Lightpoles are 25-30' tall.


I'll measure it for you the next time I'm by the property.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Masssnowfighter said:


> The only thing I broke was a bucket mount, the one and only weak underbuilt part of the pusher. The dealer I bought it from is a welder/fab shop so he fixed and made it bomb proof for no charge


The new bucket mounts are 1000x better than the originals.


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

** DON'T want to steal away from the OP, quick question, maybe Mark can answer ....I have a 2011 John Deere 244J, I don't have the JD quick attach mounting system, I think standard ISO?

Anyways, there is a 3 year old Metal Pless snowmaxx 8FT. with 3 FT wings or wide open (14ft) NO LIVE EDGE, wants $11,000.00....Is that a bit too small for my loader? Mark I think you have 9-15? If I'm correct...this metal pless is ready for a quick attach system, which i think i could buy a adapter plate?

How much for for the live edge opition?

Thanks Philip


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Ok. And how much do you self perform and how much do you subcontract?
> 
> Once again, you guys are hung up on the gross number...I have never once said that its all self performed.
> 
> Time to move on....


You said you were at $1.2 million in snow sales. That means to me GrandView Landscapes shows to the banker, IRS, whoever, $1,200,000 in sales.

Self performed or subbed doesn't make a difference.

We use 2 loaders as subs. They are on lots that we also have equipment on. We salt, plow, do the walks at them. We fully service 2 other sites for another contractor and salt one other for them, but that all shows as snow revenue in OLMs books.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

John_DeereGreen said:


> :clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:


I don't hate Arctics. They definitely saved me a lot of money over the years in salt usage and labor when the only other pusher option was a rubber edge. But seeing that I swear brand loyalty to no one , when a more innovative product comes along that is way more bullet proof, why would I want to keep buying pushers that are delicate? When I can have one that can be used as bulldozer if need be


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

512high said:


> ** DON'T want to steal away from the OP, quick question, maybe Mark can answer ....I have a 2011 John Deere 244J, I don't have the JD quick attach mounting system, I think standard ISO?
> 
> Anyways, there is a 3 year old Metal Pless snowmaxx 8FT. with 3 FT wings or wide open (14ft) NO LIVE EDGE, wants $11,000.00....Is that a bit too small for my loader? Mark I think you have 9-15? If I'm correct...this metal pless is ready for a quick attach system, which i think i could buy a adapter plate?
> 
> ...


No it isn't too small. I'm happy with my 9-15.

Not sure on the LiveEdge option, dealers price differently.


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No it isn't too small. I'm happy with my 9-15.
> 
> Not sure on the LiveEdge option, dealers price differently.


BUT this is "used", I have a dealer 15 miles away, just didn't know that it being 3 years old is a "fair price"....thanks everyone


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

512high said:


> BUT this is "used", I have a dealer 15 miles away, just didn't know that it being 3 years old is a "fair price"....thanks everyone


Sorry...used all 3 years?

Yes, priced to high.

1 year of use...flip a coin.


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## 512high (Jan 18, 2010)

I checked, bought 3 years ago, used two seasons on a TW80 loader, not used this past season, they lost a contract... Thanks for the reply, I may see if he still has it hanging around in August or so, mean while I will check my local dealer for a "price" on a new 8-13 and 9-15, also live edge options ........Thanks for the reply back


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You said you were at $1.2 million in snow sales. That means to me GrandView Landscapes shows to the banker, IRS, whoever, $1,200,000 in sales.
> 
> Self performed or subbed doesn't make a difference.
> 
> We use 2 loaders as subs. They are on lots that we also have equipment on. We salt, plow, do the walks at them. We fully service 2 other sites for another contractor and salt one other for them, but that all shows as snow revenue in OLMs books.


Yes. Total sales is 1.2 million. I sub full sites out to other contractors in the area. As in they plow, salt, do walks, site checks, everything. We do nothing on those sites but invoice our customer, and pay our subs invoices. We also have sites that we fully self perform, we have sites that we self perform salt and walks, and sub plowing, we have sites that we sub some plowing and self perform some plowing and everything else.

Do we self perform 1.2 million in snow? No. Never claimed we did. Do we sell 1.2 million in snow? Yes, this year we have.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Correction...we sub 1 tractor driveways as well. He uses our blower.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Alright, I’d be interested to see the numbers on block sales pre limiters and post limiters, that would tell the entire story.....


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Mark what size box did u say u ran on your 244?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

9-15 PlowMaxx


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

So MP wins durability and they r equal in scraping but arctic wins on price. This was interesting


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Broncslefty7 said:


> So MP wins durability and they r equal in scraping but arctic wins on price. This was interesting


And in the long run "not durable" wont equal winning in price anymore


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Broncslefty7 said:


> So MP wins durability and they r equal in scraping but arctic wins on price. This was interesting


Price vs cost...there's a difference.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Price vs cost...there's a difference.


There is a big difference. Thats what we have been trying to figure out the total cost of ownership. I'm really not hearing anything wrong with a MP but I'm not buying it. All products have known flaws. The MP has tons on metal parts and springs moving or is the short term maintenance 
An Artic does have known flaws such as the blocks and poor cutting edge wear.
All very interesting feed back.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

N


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Here are the flaws of the MP(besides the price). For the record all 3 of mine are the original designs. From what I hear they made a few design tweaks on the new ones.
(1) The bucket mount is weak and underbuilt. Bends and breaks very easily. I recommend reinforcing it soon as you get it. The couplers on the other hand are well built.
(2) The floating side board design is nowhere near as good as the Arctic or even the Boss. So you will still need to approach tall curbs with caution.
Other then those 2 things that’s all I have for complaints. The plow itself and live edge are pretty bullet proof. And seeing that everything is powder coated I don’t see any rust or rot issues happening anytime soon


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Remove the springs on the floating side boards, they cause premature wear of the shoes.

The bucket mount has been upgraded significantly and isn't an issue anymore.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Have any pics of the new bucket mount?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Masssnowfighter said:


> Have any pics of the new bucket mount?


I'll try to remember to get some.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

I will quote the almighty Paul Vanderzon. “Remove the side plate springs for longer life”


Shawn I’ll just buy the MP and you can study it. I’m too hard on my
Boss pusher to worry about an arctic. I want to work the sh it out of a pusher and not have to worry about it


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

I hear you. Call me old fashion but I prefer things that are built to last. There is plenty of other things to worry about during snow plowing, no need to add if you are hitting the piles at correct speed and angle as well.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Mass let me know if you have snow in the forecast, I am hour away, I’ll run any machine you have for the storm in a heartbeat, I know fireside is the same. I’d even drive up there just to check the MO out. I’ve seen lots of arctics but no MP’s in person.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'll try to remember to get some.


TTT...stopped and took some pics. Hopefully I can post them from my phone.

And while it is better, I am seeing a bend on the lower forks. Pretty sure that needs to be toob like ProTech vs 3/4" plate or whatever it is.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)




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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Forks used to be parallel.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Forks used to be parallel.


Must have happend the time you used it


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Must have happend the time you used it


Sure


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Sure


I'm pretty sure


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I'm pretty sure


K


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Forks used to be parallel.


You must of did some dirt grading...


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I’m guessing that’s a MP bucket mount? I think that could be a bit stronger. What size box is that running on?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Yes and 18'


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Fireside brought up a pretty good point to me the other day. The arctic looks to have way less snow capacity, is that just because the curvature ofnthe mild board, they are more focused on rolling snow rather than carrying it?


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> TTT...stopped and took some pics. Hopefully I can post them from my phone.
> 
> And while it is better, I am seeing a bend on the lower forks. Pretty sure that needs to be toob like ProTech vs 3/4" plate or whatever it is.


At least they stopped being so cheap and connected the top forks together. It's a cheap fix to the problem on there end. Doubling the thickness of the plate (like the Arctic) would be a better solution to the problem


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Broncslefty7 said:


> Fireside brought up a pretty good point to me the other day. The arctic looks to have way less snow capacity, is that just because the curvature ofnthe mild board, they are more focused on rolling snow rather than carrying it?


I know our sectionals roll far more snow than the MP units do. I've got 2 8' sectionals and they carry as much snow as my 8-13 Plowmaxx does at the end of the run.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You must of did some dirt grading...
> 
> View attachment 180052


A lot of Duck pics and references on the PlowSite today......


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I have seen sectionals plow they keep the snow flowing or rolling forward but with the short end plates seeem to limit capacity or volume. I did watch a MP plow this morning they seem to pile the snow high in the box with almost no forward roll.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Broncslefty7 said:


> Fireside brought up a pretty good point to me the other day. The arctic looks to have way less snow capacity, is that just because the curvature ofnthe mild board, they are more focused on rolling snow rather than carrying it?


What Paul told me is that while it appears to have less capacity, the snow just builds up higher and higher.

We really didn't have any decent snowfalls so I can't say for sure, but it does not seem to be an issue.

I was concerned aboot the shorter sideplates as well, especially compared to ProTechs, but none of the operators complained aboot it.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

I’m thinking on a smaller loader in the 13k# range, the Arctic’s rolling action means you don’t need as much weight or HP to push the pile a metal pless makes.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I guess it depends on how long your runs are. 

With good tracks, we are going about 400 feet with our S650 and 8-13 and not running oot of power or traction. With bald tracks, just ran oot of traction.

We have one drive that is 450', no place to go with the snow so it gets windrowed to the middle and pushed to one pile. Again, no power or traction problems. 

It also goes back to overall reliability.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Broncslefty7 said:


> I'm thinking on a smaller loader in the 13k# range, the Arctic's rolling action means you don't need as much weight or HP to push the pile a metal pless makes.


To roll or not to roll... that is the question?
After observing both methods of pushing I am still yet too determine which is better. I wish I tested which one can carry a bigger pile before I got rid of my Arctic.


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I guess it depends on how long your runs are.
> 
> With good tracks, we are going about 400 feet with our S650 and 8-13 and not running oot of power or traction. With bald tracks, just ran oot of traction.
> 
> ...


What kind of tracks are on your "S"650?....and I thought track machines suck for pushing snow?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

plow4beer said:


> What kind of tracks are on your "S"650?....and I thought track machines suck for pushing snow?


Rubber and round...don't you need to pour some cement or drink beer?

They dew...


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## plow4beer (Nov 16, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Rubber and round...don't you need to pour some cement or drink beer?
> 
> They dew...


I've been back to pouring concrete & drinking beer regularly the last 3weeks...Don't you need to shift your attention to lawnsite soon?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

plow4beer said:


> Don't you need to shift your attention to lawnsite soon?


Michael won't let me multi-task. Only 1 site at a time, otherwise this is required for the alarms in his office:


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

I will add a couple bucket mount pics too Oomkes current version. The first pic is the original version of the chincy bucket mount. The second pic is the original version after it has been bent, cracked, broken and reinforced several times


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'm unimpressed. 

Not sure why it's difficult to build a strong bucket mount.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm unimpressed.
> 
> Not sure why it's difficult to build a strong bucket mount.


For a economy model pusher it would of been fine but for the most expensive pusher out there it kind of baffles me why they skimped so hard on the bucket mount. And speaking from experience when one of those top forks break off the whole pusher becomes instantly useless


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## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

Which is why we invested in direct mounts. Wrecked two bucket mounts right off the bat. Won't go that way again. Love the results of the MetalPless.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Masssnowfighter said:


> And speaking from experience when one of those top forks break off the whole pusher becomes instantly useless


Interesting that the top breaks and the bottom bends. I thought the top would be strong enough.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

I will admit I did like the rolling action of the Arctic but no idea if it pushed more. I still think more work can be done on the end plates of the MP. I really like our Horst end plates. They are spring loaded and you can clean flush to curbs. The draw backs are more moving parts and they tear off every once in a while. Everything has it’s good and bad points.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Took delivery of everything finally!


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Those skid shoes look like a huge improvement compared to the previous ones


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

yeah, idk what the old ones look like.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Broncslefty7 said:


> yeah, idk what the old ones look like.


They look like they came off a Tonka toy.


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## Masssnowfighter (Sep 22, 2012)

Broncslefty7 said:


> yeah, idk what the old ones look like.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

you take your springs off the end plate? ive heard from some people to take them off and others say leave them on.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Broncslefty7 said:


> you take your springs off?


Yes...wear the wimpy shoes prematurely.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Ok, I’ll get some more pictures of the shoes for you guys.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

First storm with the new case and MP, nice wet heavy 6" storm.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

After the crap we've had in the last week, that doesn't look very heavy. Ours has been more water than snow.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

these photos where taken early, we had 6 inches of snow in like 4 hours, then 2 hours of ice, then 5 hours of rain.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Our piles were blue in color with a lot of leaves mixed in, crazy heavy crap.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Broncslefty7 said:


> these photos where taken early, we had 6 inches of snow in like 4 hours, then 2 hours of ice, then 5 hours of rain.


That sounds like fun...NOT.



DeVries said:


> Our piles were blue in color with a lot of leaves mixed in, crazy heavy crap.


I've seen that way too often...the blue piles that is.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Broncslefty7 said:


> these photos where taken early, we had 6 inches of snow in like 4 hours, then 2 hours of ice, then 5 hours of rain.


That doesnt sound good at all.


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

It was super heavy but not to the point of slinging slush everywhere, so it worked well. First time I’ve ever used a loader for snow, was pretty amazing.


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## viper881 (Jan 14, 2009)

What size pusher is on the case? That’s the exact set up I’d like to get. You get the high flo?


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## Broncslefty7 (Jul 14, 2014)

Yes it has high flow. It’s a 12’ skid steer model MP


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