# How Do You Stay Awake



## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

While out plowing all night and day what do some of you guys do to stay alert and awake? I'm not a coffee drinker but will have an occasional cappuccino, other wise its Mountain Dew or Red Bull.


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## CAG80 (Nov 7, 2006)

DRUGS!!!!!... just kidding... i know a guy that will take caffeine pills if he has to pull long hours. he says they work good for him but can make him a little jumpy. personally i have really never had a problem pulling long hours, i think listening to the radio helps..


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## starc (Nov 16, 2006)

I've never had a problem staying awake when I working, the problem kicks in when I know I'm finally done. Then I have a hell of a time getting home. One season, three or four years ago, we had a fairly steady snow that lasted for 13 days. At the time our route on a 2" snowfall took 2 of us 22 hours. We lived in the trucks for the 13 days without problem, when it was done and we finally got home...I slept for damn near a week.


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## 06HD BOSS (Nov 28, 2005)

Ive got the opposite problem after certain storms. No problem staying awake while plowing because i get so focused, but when i get home im exhausted but my brain just wont fall asleep...its still in snow-go-mode


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## TRUE TURF LAWN (Sep 12, 2005)

pop and chew.


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## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

TRUE TURF LAWN;336287 said:


> pop and chew.


OOOOOO YEAH!!!!! I forgot......CHEW


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## slclawn (Sep 6, 2006)

I have seen some people who stay awake by counting the scratches and dents they have just got on there truck. But i hope we all stay awake counting the money we are making not to mention all the fun we are having were is the frigen snooow man.wesport wesport


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## GTMS (Oct 26, 2006)

drink lots a coffee and get out in the cold and pee, then shovel a little sidewalk drink coffee plow and pee, repeat.


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## payton (Nov 3, 2005)

keep the window cracked.. 2 hot and im sleepin like a baby..

mountain dew. coffee-starbucks from time to time..

ive done some caffinee pills from time to time.

but normally its just a fact of stayin awake..

and if it does get to the point where your bout to fall over..

pull over and grab a 15 min power nap. set the alarm on ur phone and snooze for 15 mins.


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## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

It's important to remember to keep your body nourished, half the time I get such a bad headache I find it hard to function. Keeping some type of powerade, propel, or AH type of drink along with you for the ride helps. I've also got my Stanley Thermos and a lunchbox with me. Keep the coffee flowing and some type of lunch/snack. I'm not afraid to swing home for a few hours for a short nap if need be either.


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## Dragonscapes (Nov 20, 2006)

I don't think about sleep usually works for the first 84 hours or so then food to keep me going I sometimes need a nap to make it home... nothing like sleeping in a parking lot for an hour then going home


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## BJH Snow (Dec 18, 2003)

Mountain Dew, Kodiak, Music and the window open. Most the time I am in plow mode and look forward to the next driveway or parking lot.


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## stcroixjoe (Feb 10, 2006)

monster engery drinks and coffee and i always have some snacks and jerky


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

I have found that getting a good couple nights sleep before a storm is a good idea but that only lasts so long. Plenty of coffee, I get out of the truck every couple of hours and stretch. Like some one else said don't be afraid to pull over and take a power nap. I'm usually good for being up 60 hours straight then things tend to get a little loopy.


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## JeffNY (Dec 19, 2005)

Full Throttle energy drink, or BooKoo, or Rockstar, they all give you the 'shakes'

redbull's just not enough.


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## oman1999 (Sep 14, 2006)

After some time serving with the armed services "Special Folks" here are my tried and tue methods for hitting the 100 hour mark without sleep and not turning into a waking zombie.

Plan early, Like a week before a storm I will be watching the forecast. If they are hinting about snow I immediately change my diet. No fast food, plenty of salad, starches, good wholesome food will help you fight fatigue. Also, fresh fruit, especially bananas helps with concentration and fighting muscle cramps and fatigue.

Plenty of vitamins. Take a multi-vitamin every day, it helps with concentration and your eye-sight both day and night.

Regulate the heat in your truck carefully. I always keep it on the coolest side of comfortable. Get out and stretch, walk around the truck. Take a pee, shovel, etc.

Wear proper clothes and boots so that you don't get cold. Being cold and shivering burns a lot of calories. DON"T GET YOUR FEET WET! Keep at least 2 pair of dry sox and a dry set of footwear in the truck. When you have to be awake for extended periods of time, calories are a substitute for sleep.

AVOID SUGERY ENERGY DRINKS AND SODA!!!! A good rule of thumb is for every ounce of sugery drink or non-diet soda...drink 2 ounces of regular water. Diet soda is better but you should still keep water in your truck. I'm a big fan of Chew and or smoking. The health hazards suck but both activities keep you alert and also nicotine is a beter stimulant than coffee. 

The rest comes down to personal preference. I alternate between the radio and CDs. I put a red filter over the dome light of the truck to help with eye strain and night vision. I keep a good pair of sunglasses (UV blockers or eagle eyes) with me for daytime plowing. 

Naps are a good idea. Keep your phone or a travel alarm in the truck. Park at the back of the lot and catch 15-30 minutes of sleep. If your boss starts nagging you about taking a nap every 6-8 hours after the first 24. Ask him what his insurance deductabl is.

I'm sure that i missed some things here. The science of staying awake and alert is really subjective to the person. Mostly eating well balanced meals the week before a big storm, take your vitamins, don't eat heavy during the storm. Stick with what is easy to digest. Don't get dehydrated, your body is losing water and minerals every minute that you are awake alive, it gets worse under stressful conditions like being awake for 2 or 3 days.


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## NoFearDeere (Nov 7, 2005)

Usually coffee and excitement keep me going. Plus I have another person with me either doing sidewalks or just along for the ride, so that also helps. Whenever I really get tired, I usually go thru McDonalds and sit in the truck and eat.....always wakes me up!


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## DeereFarmer (Dec 12, 2005)

A 12 pack of Mountain Dew sitting in the snow in the bed of my truck. There is nothing better!


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## bigjoe871 (Feb 2, 2005)

Clear family members last, they call every 15 minutes or so asking where I am...that usually keeps me awake...

Helpful Tip ... Anyone over 70 apparently sleeps in shifts during storms and has an incredible NEED for their driveway and walk to be cleared at all times (no more then 1/2" accumulation, regardless of the condition of the roads or walks leading to it...they are my best kept secret...


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Never had a problem with it, when there is work to be done just do it.


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## spittincobra01 (Nov 14, 2005)

I started plowing snow in 1991, I was just out of highschool and was able to get used to the long hours. coffee, smokes, tunes and fresh cold air. I usually keep the defroster on high as hot as I can, and keep my drivers side window all the way down. If it starts to get too warm, I crack open the passengers side window for the cross ventalation


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## Oshkosh (Sep 11, 2005)

*I think 32 hours without a nap was the longest that I went...*

Me?
I have gone 32 hours without a nap,that is seat time not including time awake before and or after.....
Being out on the highway 99% of the time pushing/winging back I didn't have the luxury of popping home when I needed.
I would bring healthy snacks with me as there was plenty of time to eat crap on the road...Mountain Dew,Coffee, one good meal a day and once my stomach started to go sour I would add Imodium to my diet....
I would set the cab temp to comfortable ,not to hot ,not to cold,I would take off my coat,hat ,gloves get comfortable take wallet out of back pocket etc......... I would listen to the CB,Stereo,radio on,radio off,window open ,window closed.
At the end of each pass I would get out and do a walk around,knock the slush off,check the plow gear, clear the windshield,check the lights, take a leak......if I was spreading material check the hopper etc....
Try to stay safe and awake since D.O.T regulations don't seem to matter when we are out plowing....


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## Andy N. (Dec 14, 2001)

One thing I read while researching sleep depravation is that your body cannot store sleep. In other words, the night before a storm, it really doesn't matter if you get a good eight hours of sleep or 16 hours of sleep. Your body will take what it needs and the rest is just la-la land.


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## mike33087 (Feb 9, 2005)

*lol*

take your girl friend with ya she can yap your ear off and take care of you at the same time 

no but seriously...
blast some good tunes
crack the window
take off the coat and get comfortable
bring good food and lots of water
caffeine only kills u in the end when it wears off
pull over and take a power nap if need be

during the blizzard of 05 i went 40 hours with out sleep... slept for like a week after that


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## mrbrickman (Nov 13, 2006)

ive also gone 37 hours without a nap, slept 2 days after i got home though.

diddnt get too tired, maybe cause of the tricky lots i was plowing....going back and fourth on a giant expanse gets pretty boring.

also had about 25 cds.....all which i liked listening to....in between shoveling steps off which got me out of the truck for about 10 minutes every 5 hours or so

just got tired of the wawa iced tea and hoagies and entemens doughnuts....not too nourishing ....

i used to think all the guys who brought their girls were nerds, but i wished my truck was a-rockin in the corner more than once......


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## DeereFarmer (Dec 12, 2005)

Loud music with the windows wide open (when it is not snowing) keeps you awake too.

I will never bring a girlfriend plowing ever again! I tried this once last year. Thought it would be fun. It was living hell. It was a light storm so I was going to be done in like 6 hours and it was durring the day. So she wanted to go along, so I said that was fine. After about the first hour all she started to do was ***** and cry the whole way. I wanted to smack my head against the sterring wheel a few times. We broke up the next day. After all the stupid chick flicks I sat through for 5 months...   Plowing breaks up happy relationships!


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## itsgottobegreen (Mar 31, 2004)

mike33087;336696 said:


> take your girl friend with ya she can yap your ear off and take care of you at the same time


I was waiting for someone to say that.

Dunkin dounts and star bucks is my friend.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Where did my post on this thread go? There was nothing offensive about it?   

I was just wondering if anybody else listened to Coast to Coast for entertainment?


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## Daner (Jan 8, 2006)

Whats with the Mountain Dew,LOL...I tryed that crap when I was a kid...Black coffee and a good pail of It...and stop Ito Tims for more. I try do get down and sleep before a storm...find it hard to do ...but I will lay there and rest anyway...I find It helps. Then i'm on snow mode and I go Until I,m done...I can't nap or i'm done...I jus think Lets geter done yaaaaaahhhh. come on snow we are all ready
wesport <--------------Daner doing excersises before the storm comes


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## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

I drink beer. Lots of it. Sometimes I go through a 24 pack in a night of plowing. 


In real life I just keep trucking, Music, etc... Also try to eat things like oranges, etc... your body needs them. If you keep eating crap it makes you feel sick and hard to stay awake.


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## jcesar (Sep 14, 2006)

I have spent many the 36 to 48 hour terms in a plow truck. It is not too bad, if you can find something to keep you going.
One thing I did, was install a killer sound system. I plow mostly small commercial lots, so there is no one to wake up. Heat on high, window down, crank the tunes and go!!!!
Don't forget the coffee and nicotine. Gotta have them 
I guess you just have to figure out what makes you tick, and use it to your advantage.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

XM Satellite Radio, A bit of cold air on the face, and the thought of thousands within hours usually keeps me wide awake. 15 min power naps are more powerful than they sound. Eating well also helps.


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## Idealtim (Jan 15, 2006)

A solid 10 hrs of sleep the night before. Fruits and vitamin water and a few candy bars for me. I don't know about the rest of you but alot of junk food seems to make me sick after about 4-5 hrs. In the truck the heater is on full blast, windows are down and music is crankin'!


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## oman1999 (Sep 14, 2006)

Lots of good informations.

Most important things to not just stay awake but to stay alert are eating healthy. Power bars, etc. are a good idea. I avoid caffeine unless I feel like i'm about to pass out. plenty of water and or Gatorade keeps you alert where soda dehydrates you.


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## DBL (Aug 27, 2005)

mt dew and red bull are my favorite but i just wait for good songs to come on and i really get into them i mean signing drumming on the steering wheel and that usually helps...oh and when youre the boss no one complains when you take a few power naps


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## hickslawns (Dec 18, 2004)

Oman- You nailed it. Several others had it too. 

WATER!!!
You are tired or have a headache due to dehydration. I drink all the water I can. Makes me have to get out to pee more. Keeps me hydrated. Try to eat good too. If you eat the junk and knock out a lot of caffeine it only helps shorterm. For the 24+ hour days you better not start out with the high caffeine beverages or you will be more tired and need much more to get your fix. Tolerance. Like drugs? lol

I find with all the subs and my employees, my cell phone rings too much to crank the radio or get much plowing done. But the radio helps in between rings or the phone. It may be old school, but we keep CB's in our trucks as well. Most of our work is right off the interstate and we can listen to the truckers or flip to our "plowing channel" to chat. 

Make sure to have good sunglasses as well. The next morning after plowing all night kills me when I am squinting into the sun with heavy eyelids. 

Temperature for me is moderated by defrost on high with the window down. When it gets too cold I roll the window up half way. If it is still warm, then I turn the heat down but leave the fan on high. 

Regularly getting out of the truck to check the equipment helps too.

I have no problems going up to 40 hours. Over 35-40 hours is when I start on the coffee or pop. I use it as a last resort. 

The good eats is critical in my opinion too. I don't know if I am the first but I always have called it "snowplower's gut". Yeah, you know what I am talking about. It is not pretty at 3am. Too much candy/sugars/junkfood/ and mainly sugary drinks will give your gut that floating feeling. Not cool. 

Best of luck. Hope some of the advice helps out.


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## payton (Nov 3, 2005)

and rember no one can hear you sing in the cab of ur truck just like in the shower so it doesnt matter how much ya suck.. sing away..

another good thing is to know some local guys.. so you can call each other and check on each other.. some times its wakes ya up just to talk to some one else for 5 mins.


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## yzf1000_rider (Oct 24, 2003)

mountain dew, newports, and a loud stereo is what keeps me going. then when it gets too bad a quick 15 minute nap will get me going for a couple more hours.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

This is why I bought an automatic so I can take a nap while the truck is still plowing. 
Never really had a problem. When I plowed with a stick and was out for a couple of days,after I went back to bed my wife said I was still shifting in my sleep she would have to go sleep on the couch because I was kicking her.


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## Winter Land Man (Aug 9, 2005)

Coffee, cigarettes, cigars, music.


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## LINY Rob (Oct 5, 2004)

eat good food, not donuts.

drink water and caffiene free soda- too much stimulants can be bad.
Once I had a cup of coffee in between each job- I was a wreck.


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

Frequent pee breaks. lots of water, no heavy meals and never a chick on the truck, imagine hitting a curb at the wrong time.............:realmad: :angry: :yow!:


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

All I can say to that is :crying:


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## Lawnscape89 (Nov 28, 2005)

Thinking about the $$ I'm making and how I'm gonna spend it usually keeps me going


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## oman1999 (Sep 14, 2006)

My only vice and it's a bad one is smoking.

I take care of everything else. Plenty or water and Gatorade. Power bars, etc. to avoid plower's gut. (I keep a bottle of Pepto and some of the chewables just in case). Frequent pee breaks.

We actually had a contest last year, all the guys peed in their own milk jug. Amazing how easy it is to fill a gallon.

Anyway. SMOKING!!! The last snowstorm had me out for 66 hours (paid) and I smoked 2 cartons of Camel lights. I've tried chew, dip and even the packets but they just don't do it.

Normally I only smoke a half-pack a day. When i'm in a plow truck....i'm a chimney.


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## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

I get as much sleep as I can before hand. Then I drink coffee the whole time.I love coffee. It's the next best thing after a smoke in the morning. I de - ice the dumpster's at every place I plow. I work nights on an ambulance so it's not a real stretch to work all night and into the next day. I know Miss. Exhaustion and MR. Fatigue real well.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Boy, did this thread ever go donwhill. No offense, but you guys that stay out more than 18-20 hours on anything close to a regular basis are insane.

This is way beyond being safe. If my customers won't allow me to get some rest even in an extended storm, then they won't be my customers. JMHO


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## Antnee77 (Oct 25, 2005)

Epic Lawn Care;336508 said:


> Never had a problem with it, when there is work to be done just do it.


Same here. Once I get started, I don't want to stop.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

In 1995 we had a storm went out Thur.6 am we finished up for Monday Night Football. I still remember the faces in the snow banks laughing at me!


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## loyboy (Dec 6, 2006)

Sometimes I turn the tunes up and sing to myself. Just kidding. Alot of chewing tobacco and coffee!


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## BushHogBoy (Nov 30, 2000)

I got a nice sound system in the truck w/lots of MP3 cd's, regular cd's, Sirius satellite radio.. 
I got a 5 speed manual with a tight clutch, that oughta keep me awake!
Roll down the windows and listen to the 12V singin and gruntin through the dual 5" stacks..
Can turn on the CB and talk to Darrell or local truckers..
I like coffee it may not be the best for you but I don't use it at first.. I start out with hot chocolate or just cold drinks.
Occasionally I will smoke...
But I really just like a good dip of Skoal or Copenhagen!!! I'm mostly a non-smoker, and i've found that if i'm at a friends house 15-20 miles away through the country and i'm goin home late at night, i'll fall asleep on the way home, but if i throw in a dip, i'm good to go usually.. 
Oh yea and gettin out in the cold helps wake ya up... 

I got friends who are up all night for various reasons either job or they're just up goofin off or whatever, so i can throw the bluetooth on my right ear and call someone up and chat handsfree while workin (thats 10x's better than holdin the phone when plowing especially!!!!!!!)

Pack a cooler full of good snacks, like they said, not junk food if you can avoid it... we all love junk food, but you need solids too. Or find healthier snacks, chex mix or trail mixes are good, popcorn is healthy, granola bars, etc... 

Sometimes just stop at a 24/7 convenience store and go in and grab somethin and BS with the clerks for a few minutes, they're usually willing to talk they're bored at night and lonely... just standing, thinking about other stuff and talking and being in the well lit area will wake you up...


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## WINTERGROUP (Dec 10, 2004)

*Stay Awake*

Saftey First, Do Not Force Your Self, If You Get Into A Accident The Yards Won't Get Cleared Anyway.1/2 Hour Cat Nap When Your Tired Is The Best Bet. I Start Staying Up Later And Later Each Night Starting In November To Get Use To The Lack Of Sleep.


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## Diesel Dan (Sep 8, 2012)

Crack the windows, turn up the blower, and play music. I'm usually working during the day so running on only a couple hours sleep is common. Avoiding junk food helps, and not using caffeine til you need it. I've been known to wash no-doz (caffeine pills) down with Diet Mt Dew before  but I find I'm better off only using stimulant as a last resort, like when you just cannot stay focused and awake. 

I ran 3 days a couple years ago with about an hour nap per day, but too heavy on the caffiene had me damn near seeing things by the third day. Drinking water is probably the best, keeps you hydrated and you have to get out and pee. I also take my heavy clothes off when in the truck/machine so I stay just a little chilly. Adderall works great if taken in a reasonable (small) dose, but keep in mind it's illegal if you don't have a script and does have side effects.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Cool thread....


For me, it's all fun. I look forwards to plowing snow all year long, and when I finally get to go out and do it, I'm wide awake...

I try to go to bed early the night before, but it's usually futile, as i'm out the door by midnight. I'm like a big kid playing in the sandbox with a new tonka truck. 

It's simply a fun and exciting time for me. Outdoors when there's almost no one else out there, other than the brothers of plowing and a few cop cars patrolling. Winter wonderland of Silent streets, all the trees covered in white flakes and dripping icicles are my pure enjoyment. No distracting drivers, impatient a-holes cutting me off or giving me the finger. A heavenly time for me, being out there and in my truck alone and singing to my tunes over the beautiful sound of my cummins reliably ticking away.

I don't smoke, and drink occasionally, so my time is when everyone else has partied all night, such as new years eve, and I'm up, on the road and cruising around... just because no one else is out blocking my relaxing romp about town. My Case of Costco 1 liter water bottles accumulating empties on the passenger floorboard.....


The occasional stop @ the convenience store for some gum or just a minor break. Falling asleep isn't a problem for me, as I'm just enjoying myself way too much....



I just can't wait.....


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

When I plow all night I only get tired between around 2:00am and sun rise. I just drink Mountain Dew and stop and get out of the truck once in a while to stay awake. Once the sun is up I'm good to go again.


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## GSS LLC (Jul 7, 2012)

Cappuccino and breakfast pizzas.


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## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

This thread is almost 6 years old. Oldie but goody. How to stay awake! The worse part is you get to sleep. Get up and have coffee and start to think "what else can I plow?"


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Cappuccinos for me. You wind up with wide awake times and drag times, but you eventually get wide awake again. In 06-07 season we had a real bad Ice/Sleet/Snow storm and I wound up plowing for 72hrs straight with no sleep or naps. I usually have a helper with me in the truck so talking helps till they fall asleep. I went through 3 employees that storm, lmao.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

Diesel Dan;1488929 said:


> Crack the windows, turn up the blower, and play music. I'm usually working during the day so running on only a couple hours sleep is common. Avoiding junk food helps, and not using caffeine til you need it. I've been known to wash no-doz (caffeine pills) down with Diet Mt Dew before  but I find I'm better off only using stimulant as a last resort, like when you just cannot stay focused and awake.
> 
> I ran 3 days a couple years ago with about an hour nap per day, but too heavy on the caffiene had me damn near seeing things by the third day. Drinking water is probably the best, keeps you hydrated and you have to get out and pee. I also take my heavy clothes off when in the truck/machine so I stay just a little chilly. Adderall works great if taken in a reasonable (small) dose, but keep in mind it's illegal if you don't have a script and does have side effects.


Holy old thread bump. Definitely new.


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## Glenn Lawn Care (Sep 28, 2009)

I usually never have had that problem. I've always had time to nap for a little while before I have to go out again after being out all night. Otherwise 5 hour powers work really good.


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## Chrisxl64 (Dec 10, 2008)

Coffee, and Kodiak.

Usually not a problem until you're all done and driving home in the dark. That's when the little elves in the snow, start dancing in front of the truck, But the best kept secret for getting one home alert and safe,,,is a 99 Cent gas station iced honey bun, 810 calories of pure delicious sugary death.


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

There is a vietnamese rub down parlor in our city, I hear they run a snowplowers specail during storms and I am pretty sure a few of my guys stop there now and again. I dont ask any questions as long as the work gets done.


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

SNOWLORD;1489142 said:


> There is a vietnamese rub down parlor in our city, I hear they run a snowplowers specail during storms and I am pretty sure a few of my guys stop there now and again. I dont ask any questions as long as the work gets done.


Is it one of those parlor's with a happy ending?? That would put me right to sleep:laughing:


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## SNOWLORD (Aug 10, 2007)

Plowtoy;1489168 said:


> Is it one of those parlor's with a happy ending?? That would put me right to sleep:laughing:


From what I hear a happy ending comes with each service.


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## dlcequip (Feb 19, 2007)

Go to super america get a 20 oz french roast coffe fill your cup half way then buy a blue monster and a five hour energy drink. Then mix them all together in your coffe cup shake and start chugging we will fill 
Iike a million bucks good luck


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;338186 said:


> Boy, did this thread ever go donwhill. No offense, but you guys that stay out more than 18-20 hours on anything close to a regular basis are insane.
> 
> This is way beyond being safe. If my customers won't allow me to get some rest even in an extended storm, then they won't be my customers. JMHO


 you need find another line of work.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

noplower;1805046 said:


> you need find another line of work.


Sometimes I agree. But since I have 30 years into it, I probably have a bit of an idea of what I'm talking about.

But thanks for your opinion.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

18-20 hours is fine for me. That's a normal day. It's when we start getting closer to 30-36 ill nap. But we take hour breaks every 8-10 hours or so


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

Mark Oomkes;1805054 said:


> Sometimes I agree. But since I have 30 years into it, I probably have a bit of an idea of what I'm talking about.
> 
> But thanks for your opinion.


Mark,
I agree completly with you. After 20 years I'm to the point in my business that I put safey of myself & staff first. We have plenty of large equipment (loaders, tractors with blowers, bobcats, trucks all have v plows), we can get stuff dug out in most any accumulations, plowing with a storm isnt nearly as critical. 
Sometimes clients NEED to understand we are dealing with nature, safety, etc. It does no one any good if you, your staff, etc. are injured, in the hospitial or dead. 
This year I dropped a client mid season.... They deducted money from a payment because I refused to send shoveler out to do patio home sidewalks in a state declared "state of emergency" in -30 wind chills. Winds would have blown the walks shut before they were finished to boot. Once the winds subsided we had the walks done. As much as it was about them deducting the money it WAS triple the lack of care & consideration for my staff as to why I dropped them.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

RLM;1805101 said:


> Mark,
> I agree completly with you. After 20 years I'm to the point in my business that I put safey of myself & staff first. We have plenty of large equipment (loaders, tractors with blowers, bobcats, trucks all have v plows), we can get stuff dug out in most any accumulations, plowing with a storm isnt nearly as critical.
> Sometimes clients NEED to understand we are dealing with nature, safety, etc. It does no one any good if you, your staff, etc. are injured, in the hospitial or dead.
> This year I dropped a client mid season.... They deducted money from a payment because I refused to send shoveler out to do patio home sidewalks in a state declared "state of emergency" in -30 wind chills. Winds would have blown the walks shut before they were finished to boot. Once the winds subsided we had the walks done. As much as it was about them deducting the money it WAS triple the lack of care & consideration for my staff as to why I dropped them.


Amen brother, amen.

There's a time that comes when you just say it can wait until the storm is done. We will keep it open for emergencies until that point.

There sure isn't a need for patios to be shoveled in the middle of a blizzard.


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;1805106 said:


> Amen brother, amen.
> 
> There's a time that comes when you just say it can wait until the storm is done. We will keep it open for emergencies until that point.
> 
> There sure isn't a need for patios to be shoveled in the middle of a blizzard.


sorry I thought you guys were talking about commercial snow removal not shoveling driveways. Try telling a 24/7 biz with huge parking lots that you and your guys need your beauty sleep during a storm and see how long it takes to get sued and laughed out of business.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

noplower;1806145 said:


> sorry I thought you guys were talking about commercial snow removal not shoveling driveways. Try telling a 24/7 biz with huge parking lots that you and your guys need your beauty sleep during a storm and see how long it takes to get sued and laughed out of business.


It gets better.

Been in business since 1932.

We have provided service for a 24/7 operation for over 35 years. Could be 40, not really sure, but at least more than 35.

We service 1 hospital currently as well as a bunch of other accounts. Many are 24/7.

They all understand.

Never been sued or paid out on a slip and fall. Not planning on going out of business in the near future, either.

Go back under your bridge, troll.


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;1806148 said:


> It gets better.
> 
> Been in business since 1932.
> 
> ...


Is this plowsite or bullsite ? If we ever left any of our big lots during storms there would be literally hundreds of vehicles stranded. Save your fairy tales for someone else. Can anyone else here say that they have abandoned big 24/7 or hospital lots during a storm? sorry but real snow removal outfits do not go home to sleep during a storm no matter how long it drags on. I shared your post with a few of my guys and we all got a good laugh. thanks for that !


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

SnowGuy73;336508 said:


> Never had a problem with it, when there is work to be done just do it.


My sentiments exactly


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

noplower;1806159 said:


> Is this plowsite or bullsite ? If we ever left any of our big lots during storms there would be literally hundreds of vehicles stranded. Save your fairy tales for someone else. Can anyone else here say that they have abandoned big 24/7 or hospital lots during a storm? sorry but real snow removal outfits do not go home to sleep during a storm no matter how long it drags on. I shared your post with a few of my guys and we all got a good laugh. thanks for that !


Sounds like you're understaffed if you need to work more than 20 hours at a crack........


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

jomama45;1806203 said:


> Sounds like you're understaffed if you need to work more than 20 hours at a crack........


How do you figure that?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

noplower;1806159 said:


> Is this plowsite or bullsite ? If we ever left any of our big lots during storms there would be literally hundreds of vehicles stranded. Save your fairy tales for someone else. Can anyone else here say that they have abandoned big 24/7 or hospital lots during a storm? sorry but real snow removal outfits do not go home to sleep during a storm no matter how long it drags on. I shared your post with a few of my guys and we all got a good laugh. thanks for that !


Tell you what.

You convinced me.

I'm done. I know nothing compared to your superior wisdom and experience.

Why don't you buy me out and start a satellite operation here in GR and I will worship at your feet.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Whiffyspark;1806204 said:


> How do you figure that?


Because anybody that has to plow 20 hours at a crack doesn't know how to schedule.

They're either understaffed or underequipmented. (just made that word up)

20 hours on a large storm, sure. On every 2-6" storm all year, you're a poor businessman.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark is always a good laugh but I agree with him. If we need to have guys on our 24 hr sites we will rotate guys on and off at different times so there's always people plowing. I've found that guys as well as myself are much more productive and safe after a nap. We also have extra man power for large storms and these guys can come in and relieve guys. Sometimes it's better to work smarter not harder.


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

JD Dave;1806240 said:


> Mark is always a good laugh but I agree with him. If we need to have guys on our 24 hr sites we will rotate guys on and off at different times so there's always people plowing. I've found that guys as well as myself are much more productive and safe after a nap. We also have extra man power for large storms and these guys can come in and relieve guys. Sometimes it's better to work smarter not harder.


nice post but he said nothing about rotating anyone . he says he simply tells the customers that he'll be back after the storm and if they don't understand they won't be customers for long. No way in hell does a outfit worth their salt abandon the job during a storm and that's exactly what he says he does and everyone including a hospital is okay with it. You point is well taken and I had to find extra help this year but for the most part it's hard to find guys willing to be called only in an emergency so you go with what you got until the storm is over and the sites are clear. To most guys 20 hours straight is considered gravy , for others it's too tough and they need to beg off .


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

Whiffyspark;1806204 said:


> How do you figure that?


good question


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;1806236 said:


> Because anybody that has to plow 20 hours at a crack doesn't know how to schedule.
> 
> They're either understaffed or underequipmented. (just made that word up)
> 
> 20 hours on a large storm, sure. On every 2-6" storm all year, you're a poor businessman.


I agree with that

A lot of it has to do with the timing of the storm. All night storms or just quick dumps.

We plow the whole storms. Keep main roads open. And clean up once it stops.

On long storms complex has hotels we can use. They pay for the rooms.

But it's zero tolerance and high profile so we have to be careful. All our other sites are done the same way. But well rotate instead of having someone sleep.

And we don't drive site to site. Our trucks stay on site. We have people and machines for each site.

Only when were done well run salt from one site to others


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

Plowing town roads we start sanding pretty much when the first snow flake falls and we usually have everything cleaned up, pushed back, and sanded about four to six hours after it's done snowing. I have worked some long shifts but, I always get a break for a few hours some where between 11pm and 3am. We have a building with bunks in it right where we park the trucks so we can get some rest during the storm. I know I personally I'm a lot better off after sleeping for a few hours than I am if I try to stay up for 24+ hours strait. There are hardly any cars on the road at those hours anyways and usually we alternate our breaks so, not all the trucks are parked at once. The longest I have ever stayed up plowing (when I worked for Maine DOT) was 44 hours strait and I'll be honest that was dangerous.


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

Every area is different. Around here the towns literally do not touch a side street from roughly 9pm until 3 am. I don't have any 24/7 sites which allows me to basiclly follow the towns lead & basiclly shut down. You have to know your capabilities & capacities. If we were to pick up 24/7 facilities I would have to adjust staffing to accommodate, in my market we are currently lucky to get clients willing to pay for 12 hour basic access.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

noplower;1806159 said:


> Is this plowsite or bullsite ? If we ever left any of our big lots during storms there would be literally hundreds of vehicles stranded. Save your fairy tales for someone else. Can anyone else here say that they have abandoned big 24/7 or hospital lots during a storm? sorry but real snow removal outfits do not go home to sleep during a storm no matter how long it drags on. I shared your post with a few of my guys and we all got a good laugh. thanks for that !


Big difference between being abandoned and "zero" tolerance.

We do stagger if necessary, but we also don't work 24/7 around the clock until it stops snowing.

This past winter we would have been working for over a month straight if we attempted true "zero" tolerance.

But I know, I'm not a real man like you and your guys. I'm going to be sued out of business yesterday because I don't know what I'm doing. Someday, when I grow up, I hope to be like noplower.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

How do you stay awake,
not how do you staff your operation to cover snow events that are over 24hr in duration.

Just crank "Strangle hold" with the windows open.




This will also let your clients know that they have been serviced in this raging storm that no one intends to drive in.

sleep, red bull, office, stick your head out of the window while traveling to your next account.

and back to someone plowing a hospital lot.
if there was an emergency municipality's will sent out a municipal plow truck to escort the ambulance or fire Dept. The conditioned of the lot at the hospital is moot.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

noplower;1805046 said:


> you need find another line of work.





noplower;1806145 said:


> Try telling a 24/7 biz with huge parking lots that you and your guys need your beauty sleep *during a storm* and see how long it takes to get sued and laughed out of business.





noplower;1806159 said:


> Is this plowsite or bullsite ? If we ever left any of our big lots *during storms* there would be literally hundreds of vehicles stranded. Save your fairy tales for someone else. Can anyone else here say that they have abandoned big 24/7 or hospital lots *during a storm*? sorry but real snow removal outfits do not go home to sleep during a storm no matter how long it drags on. I shared your post with a few of my guys and we all got a good laugh. thanks for that !


When you come into a conversation late, you really should try to gain an understanding of the context and background of the conversation. In other words, engage your brain before you put your mouth in gear.

Duh.  Nobody here was referring to "a storm" or regular storms as you were. The conversation was about the anomaly storms...blizzards, prolonged weather events, extreme accumulations and negative wind-chills with major blowing & drifting. Battling the worst mother nature throws at us...what's safe and what isn't safe. Not to mention the main reason of the thread....how do you deal with this type of adversity.

Here's a small sampling of what you failed to realize and understand...



starc;336276 said:


> One season, three or four years ago, we had a fairly steady snow that lasted for 13 days. At the time our route on a 2" snowfall took 2 of us 22 hours. We lived in the trucks for the 13 days without problem, when it was done and we finally got home...I slept for damn near a week.





Brian Young;336363 said:


> I'm usually good for being up 60 hours straight then things tend to get a little loopy.





oman1999;336442 said:


> After some time serving with the armed services "Special Folks" here are my tried and tue methods for hitting the 100 hour mark without sleep and not turning into a waking zombie....
> 
> If your boss starts nagging you about taking a nap every 6-8 hours after the first 24. Ask him what his insurance deductabl is.
> 
> .....your body is losing water and minerals every minute that you are awake alive, it gets worse under stressful conditions like being awake for 2 or 3 days.





mrbrickman;336803 said:


> ive also gone 37 hours without a nap, slept 2 days after i got home though.





hickslawns;337575 said:


> For the 24+ hour days you better not start out with the high caffeine beverages or you will be more tired and need much more to get your fix.
> 
> I have no problems going up to 40 hours. Over 35-40 hours is when I start on the coffee or pop. I use it as a last resort.





oman1999;338086 said:


> The last snowstorm had me out for 66 hours (paid) and I smoked 2 cartons of Camel lights. I've tried chew, dip and even the packets but they just don't do it.


And it was at this point you couldn't resist your ignorant urge to insult and throw in your .02 because Mark had the audacity to bring safety into the conversation. 



Mark Oomkes;338186 said:


> This is way beyond being safe. If my customers won't allow me to get some rest even in an extended storm, then they won't be my customers. JMHO


But I digress. More context you ignored...



grandview;338600 said:


> In 1995 we had a storm went out Thur.6 am we finished up for Monday Night Football. I still remember the faces in the snow banks laughing at me!





Diesel Dan;1488929 said:


> I ran 3 days a couple years ago with about an hour nap per day, but too heavy on the caffiene had me damn near seeing things by the third day.





maelawncare;1489071 said:


> In 06-07 season we had a real bad Ice/Sleet/Snow storm and I wound up plowing for 72hrs straight with no sleep or naps. I usually have a helper with me in the truck so talking helps till they fall asleep. I went through 3 employees that storm, lmao.





RLM;1805101 said:


> Mark,
> I agree completly with you. After 20 years I'm to the point in my business that I put safey of myself & staff first. Sometimes clients NEED to understand we are dealing with nature, safety, etc. It does no one any good if you, your staff, etc. are injured, in the hospitial or dead.
> 
> ....in a state declared "state of emergency" in -30 wind chills. Winds would have blown the walks shut before they were finished to boot. Once the winds subsided we had the walks done. As much as it was about them deducting the money it WAS triple the lack of care & consideration for my staff as to why I dropped them.





Mark Oomkes;1805106 said:


> There's a time that comes when you just say it can wait until the storm is done. *We will keep it open for emergencies until that point. *
> 
> There sure isn't a need for patios to be shoveled in the middle of a blizzard.


He didn't say he abandons his sites during storms. You're putting words in his mouth.

During a major event you need to know when to step back and punt, and when to attack. Using up your resources while gaining poor results (or no results at all) is poor snow & ice management.


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;338186 said:


> Boy, did this thread ever go donwhill. No offense, but you guys that stay out more than 18-20 hours on anything close to a regular basis are insane.
> 
> This is way beyond being safe. *If my customers won't allow me to get some rest even in an extended storm, then they won't be my customers*. JMHO


 Key words: During storm.


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

TCLA;1806362 said:


> When you come into a conversation late, you really should try to gain an understanding of the context and background of the conversation. In other words, engage your brain before you put your mouth in gear.
> 
> Duh.  Nobody here was referring to "a storm" or regular storms as you were. The conversation was about the anomaly storms...blizzards, prolonged weather events, extreme accumulations and negative wind-chills with major blowing & drifting. Battling the worst mother nature throws at us...what's safe and what isn't safe. Not to mention the main reason of the thread....how do you deal with this type of adversity.
> 
> ...


To the rescue huh? please read the above post 88 a little more carefully .


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks to guys that need beauty sleep and claim to be pro's. me and the crew are getting more laughs. This is not a regular job, if you can't go for long periods without sleep go get a office job. I have two woman plowing for me and even they never complain about being sleepy, ever. Ten hours is the norm for us. last season we had 6 times between 18 and 24 hours and the blizzard in the first week in January was over 40 hours for all. not only that but a few of the crew go to other jobs before and after plowing so they put the rest of us shame.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I didn't think you got that much snow in Indiana?
What is your yearly avg?
http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Indiana/annual-snowfall.php

by the looks of it, not that much.....

It's easy to stay awake when there isn't much to do.
We're getting a good laugh.
At a guy from Indiana who thinks he gets a lot of snow.

When I worked for a ski area we worked 10-13hrs a night every night.
and during heavy snow events we just-keep going.
but that ended when a guy fell asleep and crashed his cat.
But that was at a resort & drug use is common place

But back to commercial plowing.
again if it's a snow emergency and it's dumping their is no need to go plow as everything is closed.
Your work is for not as it just gets drifted in as soon as you leave. As mentioned this is poor management.

What good is it if the city streets are impassible for most?
I think your gouging your customers.
Plowing the lot when it is not used or can't be used.
Then charging them for it, just to plow it over and over because you need to. You need to so their isn't so much snow that it is impossible for your truck to plow.

Is this a competition in stupidity.
Gee my guys can stay awake for ever.....
We all have worked for 2-3 days straight before
but when you get wiser, smarter and more proficient
you don't have to.



noplower;1806372 said:


> Thanks to guys that need beauty sleep and claim to be pro's. me and the crew are getting more laughs. This is not a regular job, if you can't go for long periods without sleep go get a office job. I have two woman plowing for me and even they never complain about being sleepy, ever. Ten hours is the norm for us. last season we had 6 times between 18 and 24 hours and the blizzard in the first week in January was over 40 hours for all. not only that but a few of the crew go to other jobs before and after plowing so they put the rest of us shame.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

SnoFarmer;1806376 said:


> I didn't think you got that much snow in Indiana?
> What is your yearly avg?
> http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Indiana/annual-snowfall.php
> 
> ...


It's all about what you're contract says. Not the weather man

Several of ours are absolute zero tolerance. We have a nationally recognized location with hotels,shops,etc

Has to be clean the entire duration of the event.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I too have "zero tolerance" lots but they are not open 24/7 and during a "snow emergency"" or state of emergency even you are suppose to stay off of the roads.
Then if it's that bad there is no one to plow for, the lots are empty
as the only ones on the rd have 4x4 and most all business will close.

Even the hospitals in our city have more that a trace of snow in their lots during a big snow event.
I plow my lots more often than the hospitals are.

True zero tolerance is a dream and impossibility at rates of over an inch an hr and we see rates of over 3" an hr.
I don't care how many trucks you have on the lot.

Again a municipal plow will escort the emergency vehicles and they don't care if the parking lot is plowed or not.



Whiffyspark;1806378 said:


> It's all about what you're contract says. Not the weather man
> 
> Several of ours are absolute zero tolerance. We have a nationally recognized location with hotels,shops,etc
> 
> Has to be clean the entire duration of the event.


----------



## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

SnoFarmer;1806376 said:


> I didn't think you got that much snow in Indiana?
> What is your yearly avg?
> http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Indiana/annual-snowfall.php
> 
> ...


We had near record snow and trust me my contracts are not forgiving. If we don't keep going 24/7 we would violate the contract and that would have been the end. I guess you have access to all the help you need be it 2 inches or 20? I don't know how you manage to keep so many workers on call even though you don't need them all the time but hey you're a pro with all the answers and a endless supply of help. I replied originally because the guy said anyone that plows 18 hours straight is insane and I say anyone that won't is in the wrong biz . I definitely struck a nerve with a few of you, so sorry.


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

So Whiffyspark,
Your telling us if it snowed 4days or more in a row you would be in that lot plowing and clearing sidewalks the whole time?


That is poor management and a poor decision making.

If you have such an account you would have employees or Subs plowing for you so you could sleep
or service your other accounts or do you just have the one?


ps I'm with Mark I don't know how I stayed in the snow Biz for over 30yrs.
I must be doing something wrong .

we get about 2-3 times the snow you do.
heck we can see your yearly avg in one storm.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

SnoFarmer;1806382 said:


> I too have "zero tolerance" lots but they are not open 24/7 and during a "snow emergency"" or state of emergency even you are suppose to stay off of the roads.
> Then if it's that bad there is no one to plow for, the lots are empty
> as the only ones on the rd have 4x4 and most all business will close.
> 
> ...


Yeah we have to keep main drives and sidewalks clear until snow is done.

We don't travel from site to site until storm is done. Only to salt

We have trucks and machines that stay at each site. Our largest site has 3 loaders 3 skids and 5 trucks. Plus two atvs and a dozen sidewalk people.

We are there the entire time it is snowing. They even pay to have us sit there if were supposed to get hammered

That site is hourly per each piece. It's what they want


----------



## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

SnoFarmer;1806387 said:


> So Whiffyspark,
> Your telling us if it snowed 4days or more in a row you would be in that lot plowing and clearing sidewalks the whole time?
> 
> That is poor management and a poor decision making.
> ...


See previous post

I work for someone. Were there the entire storm. Yes we can rotate naps if a person needs one.

The company we work for will provide hotel rooms in a storm like that. They are a national company. Good company to work for. They will also pay out the entire storm. If we nap it's not deducted


----------



## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Whiffyspark;1806389 said:


> Yeah we have to keep main drives and sidewalks clear until snow is done.
> 
> We don't travel from site to site until storm is done. Only to salt
> 
> ...


Sounds more like a prison sentence than a job...............


----------



## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Whiffyspark;1806390 said:


> See previous post
> 
> I work for someone. Were there the entire storm. Yes we can rotate naps if a person needs one.
> 
> The company we work for will provide hotel rooms in a storm like that. They are a national company. Good company to work for. They will also pay out the entire storm. If we nap it's not deducted


Well, that's a little different then. That is acceptable IMO......


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Whiffyspark;1806390 said:


> See previous post
> 
> I work for someone. Were there the entire storm. Yes we can rotate naps if a person needs one.
> 
> The company we work for will provide hotel rooms in a storm like that. They are a national company. Good company to work for. They will also pay out the entire storm. If we nap it's not deducted


Do you have Brickman brown pom-poms?


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

what is it.
are you an employee or the business owner?
because in your next post you say your an employee.
An employee doesn't have contracts the employer does.



noplower;1806385 said:


> my contracts are not forgiving. If we don't keep going 24/7 we would violate the contract and that would have been the end. .


Just like your employer,
I employ help


noplower;1806385 said:


> I guess you have access to all the help you need be it 2 inches or 20?


Just like your employer does.


noplower;1806385 said:


> I don't know how you manage to keep so many workers on call even though you don't need them all the time but hey you're a pro with all the answers and a endless supply of help.


I'm starting to agree with him.
Ive worked hard to eliminate the fire alarm mentality that exists in the snow-plowers mind.


noplower;1806385 said:


> I replied originally because the guy said anyone that plows 18 hours straight is insane and I say anyone that won't is in the wrong biz . I definitely struck a nerve with a few of you, so sorry.


so you do sleep,and are not working straight threw until the end, like you said you do?


Whiffyspark;1806390 said:


> See previous post
> 
> *I work for someone.* Were there the entire storm. *Yes we can rotate naps if a person needs one. *
> 
> *The company we work for* will provide hotel rooms in a storm like that. They are a national company. Good company to work for. They will also pay out the entire storm. If we nap it's not deducted


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Manager for a contractor. Contractor works for national company

And no I don't sleep unless it's over 36 hours


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;1806395 said:


> Do you have Brickman brown pom-poms?


Lmao not Brickman mark


----------



## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

manager= employee, not the contract holder
contractor= business owner, holds the contract.
works for, is now a Sub for the CO that holds the contract.

Good for you most can stay awake, but why?
Is your employer under staffed or do you think your not replaceable?
At 36hrs of sleep deprivation you should no longer be on the roads you are a danger to others, this is very reckless.



Whiffyspark;1806410 said:


> Manager for a contractor. Contractor works for national company
> 
> And no I don't sleep unless it's over 36 hours


Sleep deprivation was a factor in some of the biggest disasters in recent history: the 1979 nuclear accident at Three Mile Island, the massive Exxon Valdez oil spill, the 1986 nuclear meltdown at Chernobyl, and others.

But sleep loss is also a big public safety hazard every day on the road. Drowsiness can slow reaction time as much as driving drunk. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that fatigue is a cause in 100,000 auto crashes and 1,550 crash-related deaths a year in the U.S. The problem is greatest among people under 25 years old.

38h of sleep deprivation in women resulted in decreased alpha, increased theta and increased intrahemispheric correlation during rest and increased theta and reaction time during task. F3-O1 coherent activity was selectively decreased consistent with the role of sleep for recovery of frontal functions. Sleep deprivation effects were milder in women than in men, however, recovery was not complete suggesting that women need more sleep than men to recover.

In fact, research using driving simulators suggests that driving while sleep deprived may be as dangerous as driving while intoxicated. In one study, sleep deprived subjects drove off the road every 5 minutes, which was correlated to a blood alcohol level of 0.08%. Sleep deprivation disrupts how quick we respond to stimuli and our ability to track things visually, which also lead to dangerous driving.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

noplower;1806370 said:


> To the rescue huh?


:laughing: Marko's the last person who needs rescuing.

It was actually meant to be a learning moment for your benefit. To no surprise you confirm a know-it-all is incapable of learning.



Whiffyspark;1806378 said:


> It's all about what you're contract says. Not the weather man
> 
> Several of ours are absolute *zero tolerance*. We have a nationally recognized location with hotels,shops,etc


There's that term again. "Snow & ice free conditions" is it's brother. There's no such thing. :laughing:

The simple fact that you had to perform any de-icing or plowing services proves you did not achieve "zero tolerance" or bare pavement conditions. Any lawyer with a D rating will have you for lunch should you find yourself in court defending yourself from a slip & fall with injury. Never agree to this in writing. It is not achievable!



noplower;1806385 said:


> I definitely struck a nerve with a few of you, so sorry.


Hardly. :laughing:

You probably mistake cockiness with confidence too?


----------



## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Because I don't need to sleep under that. And no we aren't understaffed. Not even close.


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

I nodded off a couple of times just reading all these posts, I'm such an underachiever!


----------



## mulcahy mowing (Jan 16, 2006)

Contract holder stays awake on stress alone in the truck or not, snowing or not.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

SnoFarmer;1806419 said:


> Sleep deprivation was a factor in some of the biggest disasters in recent history: the 1979 nuclear accident at Three Mile Island, the massive Exxon Valdez oil spill, the 1986 nuclear meltdown at Chernobyl, and others.


Sleep deprivation had nothing to do with either nuclear accident. TMI was due to inexperience of night shift and a stuck valve. Chernobyl was also inexperience of night shift. The lead in charge of the test that was in charge that night had only been on the job for a few months. This test of backup systems was supposed to be done during the more experienced day shift but other factors made them push it back.

I lived about 2 miles from TMI in when the meltdown occurred. Neighbor was a controller at the plant. He didn't evacuate, so my family didn't either.

As for the Valdez, I thought the captain was drunk.

As for the the topic, the length of time I can plow really depends. My max is probably around 15-20 hours before I start to get loopy. A normal storm has me out for 5-7 hours. This will cover my sub work and the friends/family plowing.


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## Winter Land Man (Aug 9, 2005)

millsaps118;336264 said:


> While out plowing all night and day what do some of you guys do to stay alert and awake? I'm not a coffee drinker but will have an occasional cappuccino, other wise its Mountain Dew or Red Bull.


In my trucks... lots of coffee and chain smoking cigarettes. In town trucks, lots of coffee, (hot and iced), Pepsi, and that's about it. They did away with smoking in the vehicles on the department I was working for. Which sucked. Every other department they are allowed to smoke.


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

SnoFarmer;1806398 said:


> what is it.
> are you an employee or the business owner?
> because in your next post you say your an employee.
> An employee doesn't have contracts the employer does.
> ...


*
*
where did you get this from? I go until the bitter end without interruption. even with all that sleep you somehow can't read ?


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

SnoFarmer;1806398 said:


> what is it.
> are you an employee or the business owner?
> because in your next post you say your an employee.
> An employee doesn't have contracts the employer does.
> ...


I am the contractor with contracts for three large 24/7 lots. I have 8 trucks and use up to 8 subs. I deal with them and all the managers so on any given storm I deal with over 20 people while I plow. I have not and would not stop while it's snowing . the contract is perfectly clear about staying on the site until the job is done. I don't know where you came up with me being an employee as I am the employer. You guys that say you have hospitals and big 24/7 lots and stop plowing while it's snowing doesn't add up. I not only have struck a nerve but appears that I've struck the last nerve for a few of you. The guys say it's insane to plow for 18 hours straight simply must not have much work. One of the big guys here who claims to have big accounts only has five trucks. Hell the hospitals around here need five trucks alone.


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## noplower (Oct 17, 2007)

mulcahy mowing;1806755 said:


> Contract holder stays awake on stress alone in the truck or not, snowing or not.


This pretty much sums it up for me. I can't sleep even if I wanted to until everything is signed for at each location


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

I not only have struck a nerve but for you to 
brood over this and revisit this long after we discussed it, is rather......

I do hire a Sub, and I sleep as he is working for me.

It sounds like you are set up to plow 2" and when it does snow 20" you can't handle it.
By your avg snow amounts a 20" is a rarity.

when you can't handle 20"
You over booked.
You over sold
Or you don't have the necessary equipment to do the job your contracted to do when it snows over 2"
or the experience.

It's inexperience, the feeling of what if, that keeps the
contractor awake.
Experience and knowledge and the proper equipment will let a contractor sleep.

And I was also talking with another member
so not all is directed at you.

I can see where if they don't get a lot of snow 
it can be a crises when it does snow.

Soo much stress full you can't sleep.
Inexperience, or they know they might not be able to fulfill their obligations.

Around here snow is not a crises.
most drive a 4wheel drive of some sort.

If it's snowing at rates of 1"-2" or greater an hr you will never have the lot clear of snow.
Do you stay in that lot like you say you do or do you go to the next lot?



 noplower;1808675 said:


> I am the contractor with contracts for three large 24/7 lots. I have 8 trucks and use up to 8 subs. I deal with them and all the managers so on any given storm I deal with over 20 people while I plow. I have not and would not stop while it's snowing . the contract is perfectly clear about staying on the site until the job is done. I don't know where you came up with me being an employee as I am the employer. You guys that say you have hospitals and big 24/7 lots and stop plowing while it's snowing doesn't add up. I not only have struck a nerve but appears that I've struck the last nerve for a few of you. The guys say it's insane to plow for 18 hours straight simply must not have much work. One of the big guys here who claims to have big accounts only has five trucks. Hell the hospitals around here need five trucks alone.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

A boss who can't hire someone to plow in their place is not a very good manager or employer.

A boss who thinks that they have to be out plowing with their crew
because if they don't it won't get done is full of themselves, or they need a new crew.
They should be able to work independently.


The last guy I worked for only plowed to fill in for someone or when we do get 20" or more.
He just drove around or stayed in bed sleeping while we plowed.
Then he would call when he woke up.

You don't have to work yourself to death.
Stress will shorten your career, marriage and life,
learn how to eliminate it.
Like some of us old-timers have or you will not be around in 32 years to complain about the loss of sleep.


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## Diesel Dan (Sep 8, 2012)

Mark Oomkes;1806236 said:


> Because anybody that has to plow 20 hours at a crack doesn't know how to schedule.
> 
> They're either understaffed or underequipmented. (just made that word up)
> 
> 20 hours on a large storm, sure. On every 2-6" storm all year, you're a poor businessman.


under-equipped***


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## Diesel Dan (Sep 8, 2012)

I inject crystal meth and plow my lots continuously all winter.

I stop once the weather hits 50*

Use a lot of cutting edges but hey it's zero tolerance


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## NickSnow&Mow (Jul 12, 2014)

Dogplow Dodge;1488955 said:


> Cool thread....
> 
> For me, it's all fun. I look forwards to plowing snow all year long, and when I finally get to go out and do it, I'm wide awake...
> 
> ...


im with ya man. Open station tractor and im still out for a rip


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## Nero (Aug 10, 2009)

SnoFarmer;1808683 said:


> A boss who can't hire someone to plow in their place is not a very good manager or employer.
> 
> A boss who thinks that they have to be out plowing with their crew
> because if they don't it won't get done is full of themselves, or they need a new crew.
> ...


Well that's for sure. Sleep = Safe Fuel.


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## nixray (Jan 31, 2008)

I stop, log in and try to find 'Birds latest novel idea!!


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## Nero (Aug 10, 2009)

Where is the Bird hanging out these days?


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## nixray (Jan 31, 2008)

He is on here as of late. Not much as changed, still some wacky ideas. And stubborn as ever.


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## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

Get your sleep. You can get a sleep deficet that needs to be repayed. You can't repay it all at once. You can do it 2 or 3 hours at a time on top of your normal sleep. You keep ahead of it you can go 24 hours with no sleep. You just have to stay a head of you sleep dept that you need to pay back.


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