# How many acres justify a skid loader?



## jdavis11 (Oct 8, 2014)

I am fairly new to the site. We currently have a few trucks and two skid loaders, both are dedicated to their own respective sites, one of which is 8 acres and the other is 6 acres. I also send a truck to the 8 acre site for the first 2-2.5 hours to help out.

My question is what size lot justify's having a dedicated skid loader for your company? I see many reply's to people posts who some think are "in over their heads" with just a truck or two for a large lot. Well then, at what point to do have to put a loader there? For me I would say 4-5 acres or more can justify it, but this obviously depends on the type of client and layout of the lot.


----------



## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Depends. Do you possibly keep salt there as well?


----------



## concreteguy (Nov 10, 2006)

I would say the layout of the lot more so than the size. We do a townhouse complex that takes me 20 min with the skid. I never attempted with a truck but would have to say it would be 1- 1/2 hours. Just the shape of an H and everything needs to come out to one spot. Some of the bigger sites with long runs are almost better with a truck and the correct plow, unless you're thinking of a wheel loader


----------



## TGS Inc. (Aug 17, 2010)

*Size of lot...*

We usually put skids on lots at 4 acres or more...


----------



## IDOCTORTREES (Dec 27, 2006)

I use one on my driveway.


----------



## blizzardsnow (Feb 3, 2009)

I base mine on my production rates as a function of what time I have to have accounts serviced by. That pretty much answers the question for me.


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

IDOCTORTREES;1877120 said:


> I use one on my driveway.


:laughing::laughing:
Exactly! If the skid is going to be faster or easier then it doesn't matter how big the area is.


----------



## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

I have five office buildings all on the same street. They add up to roughly 5 acres. I dedicate a skid and a 10' pusher. It's not because the lots are huge it's that there not super easy to plow.


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

IDOCTORTREES;1877120 said:


> I use one on my driveway.


I have seen some of the driveways in Montana, you could land a plane on them unless you live in town.


----------



## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

To me lot size isn't the only determination. I think my entire route could be done significantly quicker and easier with a skid steer. I'm considering replacing one of my truck's with a 2spd skid since my CTL isn't very quick. Even though my CTL only goes about 7mph with my 10' kage it can still knock out the smaller or more intricate lots much faster then my pickup and v plow can.


----------



## PLOWTRUCK (Sep 25, 2010)

Like many have said there is not an exact answer. For me it would be about 4 maybe 5 acres before I thought about putting a machine in a lot where I didn't have anything else around it. I do a few 1.5 acre lots near my condo site so I use my backhoe on those lots to free up 2 trucks.


----------



## mike ward (Nov 29, 2008)

I have to build a route that is 6-8 hrs of work whether it is a plow truck or a skid steer/loader. The lots need to be close enough together to "road" the skid steer or the load from job to job. Build a production rate for your equipment, measure your lots, assign hrs to each job and build your routes.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

TGS Inc.;1877039 said:


> We usually put skids on lots at 4 acres or more...


thats about as good as an answer as it gets! 160-170k sq ft mark you can't plow fast enough with a truck to justify tying up one truck, "even if just a pickup truck" on one site... so you leave a skid there, owned/rented etc.

Its also faster in large areas even if not all open areas, to plow with a box on a machine instead of a truck.. i wouldn't even want to attempt plowing something that large today without a machine doing it.

Our smallest lot with a skid was likely 160k sq ft... and thats enough to keep it busy full storm when its dropping a couple inches per hour, especially if during the day when the store is open.

Call truck to come in and salt often to keep really clean too, works good.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Mark13;1877553 said:


> To me lot size isn't the only determination. I think my entire route could be done significantly quicker and easier with a skid steer. I'm considering replacing one of my truck's with a 2spd skid since my CTL isn't very quick. Even though my CTL only goes about 7mph with my 10' kage it can still knock out the smaller or more intricate lots much faster then my pickup and v plow can.


Yeah its not all about top speed for 4 seconds before your slowing down in a pickup truck.. I used our Deere 332D once two years ago overnight to clear a 280k+ site in about 2 hours when it was empty.. the speed of a two speed skid, about 12mph wide open with a 10' box would annihilate anything someone could do with a pickup truck with any snow plow on it without too much snow to jam up the box each run. Granted i only pushed about 4-5" but id get to the end lift box, do a 180 and 12mph the other way in a matter of a couple seconds. if plowing with a truck, i'd only be plowing one day, backing up the whole time. Doing it with the skid, id make piles a the end near the store then turn around and take that pile and the next run back towards the end of the lot. This wouldnt work if we had 8-12" but i would have already cleared it once by then anyway so we're never pushing that much snow in one shot.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

One of the sites we have a truck on is just over 250000 square feet. 2-4 inch storm and an 8'2" v plow with wings and it takes 2.25 hours to clear overnight. I'm positive once I convince myself to spend the money on an Ebling I'll knock an hour off that. Daytime storms we just clean driving lanes and loading docks, so it's not any longer.

That same truck does another ~150000 square feet on average in a 2-4 storm. Route time averages between night and day storms to be right around 6 hours on a 2-4 event. 

To me, it's not the size of the lot that matters, its the layout. In most of our apartment and condo complexes, the skids make trucks look stupid. I have no problem letting a truck do 300000 square feet, if it's set up right for a truck. Open with a few islands so you can radius plow, I'll send a truck there all day long. 

We have one route for a skid where the average lot size is 40000 square feet with the total route being 300000 square feet. It's all office buildings. In a truck, it takes over 8 hours. The skid and 10' Kage does it in right at 4.

In my very humble opinion, if a lot is too big for a truck, it's too big for a skid steer as well 99% of the time. Those are the lots that loaders belong.


----------



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Ive found skids are useless compared to a truck in bigger lots. I like using them in lots that have tons of islands etc. Cuts our time in half basically.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

John_DeereGreen;1879429 said:


> In my very humble opinion, if a lot is too big for a truck, it's too big for a skid steer as well 99% of the time. Those are the lots that loaders belong.





Brian Young;1879778 said:


> Ive found skids are useless compared to a truck in bigger lots. I like using them in lots that have tons of islands etc. Cuts our time in half basically.


Looks like we think the same...put the equipment where it's best parts will shine. Trucks move faster, put them in the open areas where they don't have to manuver. Skids turn faster, put them where there's a lot more turning and stuff to go around.


----------



## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

John_DeereGreen;1879429 said:


> One of the sites we have a truck on is just over 250000 square feet. 2-4 inch storm and an 8'2" v plow with wings and it takes 2.25 hours to clear overnight. I'm positive once I convince myself to spend the money on an Ebling I'll knock an hour off that. Daytime storms we just clean driving lanes and loading docks, so it's not any longer.
> 
> That same truck does another ~150000 square feet on average in a 2-4 storm. Route time averages between night and day storms to be right around 6 hours on a 2-4 event.
> 
> ...





Brian Young;1879778 said:


> *Ive found skids are useless compared to a truck in bigger lots. *I like using them in lots that have tons of islands etc. Cuts our time in half basically.


Depending on the layout I'll agree..obviously if you have a lot of area that can be windrowed the truck will rock, but as soon as you go to pushing/carrying snow, our 10ft pushers carry much more volume than the powerplow or vplow w/wings.......but im curious if either one of you have have experience with utilizing/operating newer med-large frame SS's with 2spd, dedicated snow tires, & an attachment w/ features that make it more efficient over a standard pusher or plow? Seriously...not being a smart ace.

I've also found the more snow it is, the more productive the SS's become over the pickup.

Im sure we agree each has its place, but Im a little surprised at your comments.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

snocrete;1880861 said:


> but im curious if either one of you have have experience with utilizing/operating newer med-large frame SS's with 2spd, dedicated snow tires, & an attachment w/ features that make it more efficient over a standard pusher or plow? Seriously...not being a smart ace.


Yep, all 4 of our machines are 2 speed. 2 Cat 242's, and 2 New Holland L180's. 2 run 10 foot Arctic (till this year, they're Boss boxes now) (Cat's), 1 runs a 10 foot Kage (1 NH), and 1 runs an 8-13 HLA SnoWing that we bought used (other NH). None of them have snow tires, but we don't get the super big snows to justify that where we're running these machines. 2-4 inches is all we ever see in Athens.


snocrete;1880861 said:


> I've also found the more snow it is, the more productive the SS's become over the pickup.


I would probably agree with this if we got deeper snow, but then again, this is when we'd be leaning harder on our loaders than skids to carry snow. The skids are in broken up lots like one office building route, HOA's, and apartment complexes.


----------



## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

John_DeereGreen;1880959 said:


> Yep, all 4 of our machines are 2 speed. 2 Cat 242's, and 2 New Holland L180's. 2 run 10 foot Arctic (till this year, they're Boss boxes now) (Cat's), 1 runs a 10 foot Kage (1 NH), and 1 runs an 8-13 HLA SnoWing that we bought used (other NH). None of them have snow tires, but we don't get the super big snows to justify that where we're running these machines. 2-4 inches is all we ever see in Athens.
> 
> I would probably agree with this if we got deeper snow, but then again, this is when we'd be leaning harder on our loaders than skids to carry snow. The skids are in broken up lots like one office building route, HOA's, and apartment complexes.


Fair enough....In the end, I think we agree about more on this matter than disagree:salute:.....but I'll still pick a well equipped skid over a truck "most of the time" to take care of larger properties


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

snocrete;1881737 said:


> Fair enough....In the end, I think we agree about more on this matter than disagree:salute:.....but I'll still pick a well equipped skid over a truck "most of the time" to take care of larger properties


I will say, that HLA will kick a truck's ass on small snows and open properties. I took it out just for fun and let that operator run my truck...it's very productive...

I really wish I could convince myself to spend some dough on an Ebling. It would be damn hard for anything to keep up with a truck in our snows from the production numbers I've seen.


----------



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

snocrete;1880861 said:


> Depending on the layout I'll agree..obviously if you have a lot of area that can be windrowed the truck will rock, but as soon as you go to pushing/carrying snow, our 10ft pushers carry much more volume than the powerplow or vplow w/wings.......but im curious if either one of you have have experience with utilizing/operating newer med-large frame SS's with 2spd, dedicated snow tires, & an attachment w/ features that make it more efficient over a standard pusher or plow? Seriously...not being a smart ace.
> 
> I've also found the more snow it is, the more productive the SS's become over the pickup.
> 
> Im sure we agree each has its place, but Im a little surprised at your comments.


They definitely have their place but I don't think a large or larger lot is it. 
By the time you invest in a skid and the "specialty tools" for it to make it useful you'd have 50-60k into it and it would basically have to do that lot. I'd rather spend that much money for something that can do more lots. A 10ft box will move a lot of snow but I bet a 9'6" v blade with wings will move just as much snow and twice as fast. Skids are perfect for condo's, a line of restaurants in a row etc. There just so many variables here to have a right answer.


----------



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

John_DeereGreen;1881914 said:


> I will say, that HLA will kick a truck's ass on small snows and open properties. I took it out just for fun and let that operator run my truck...it's very productive...
> 
> I really wish I could convince myself to spend some dough on an Ebling. It would be damn hard for anything to keep up with a truck in our snows from the production numbers I've seen.


They are sweet but last I checked they were 11K!!!!!!!!! I was actually looking into a compact front loader with an HLA for a 3 mile strip of shops and offices with zero parking to begin with let alone piles of snow now, of course the cheap asses around here didn't want to commit to the 3 year deal.


----------



## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Brian Young;1883103 said:


> They definitely have their place but I don't think a large or larger lot is it.
> By the time you invest in a skid and the "specialty tools" for it to make it useful you'd have 50-60k into it and it would basically have to do that lot. I'd rather spend that much money for something that can do more lots. A 10ft box will move a lot of snow but I bet a 9'6" v blade with wings will move just as much snow and twice as fast. Skids are perfect for condo's, a line of restaurants in a row etc. There just so many variables here to have a right answer.


I would disagree on a 9.6 w/wing out pushing a 10ft box

I have a 11ft box and you fill it and back off a 9.6 wing V wont beable to push that load Trust me I tried a few times Most of the snow goes over the top of the V My Box is 48'' tall with new edge on
I use a skid on a 5 acre lot more for the detail work.
I do agree with you skid nice in the small lots or condos. That's why I run one its route is mostly small 1/2 acre lots and one big complex.


----------



## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Brian Young;1883103 said:


> They definitely have their place but I don't think a large or larger lot is it. *if you saw how we utilize them, I'm confident your opinion would change*
> By the time you invest in a skid and the "specialty tools" for it to make it useful you'd have 50-60k into it and it would basically have to do that lot.
> *Wrong. It can be dun for under 40K with a VERY low hr used machine, snow tires, & new attachment*
> I'd rather spend that much money for something that can do more lots. *Depending on your situation that may be the smarter choice* A 10ft box will move a lot of snow but I bet a 9'6" v blade with wings will move just as much snow and twice as fast. *You are so mistaken its not even funny....We've done these comparisons side by side. If your straight pushing to piles...especially in more than 1 direction, the skid will do up to twice as much..sometimes even more* Skids are perfect for condo's, a line of restaurants in a row etc. *I agree*There just so many variables here to have a right answer.*I agree*


Not to get tooo far off track, but do any of you think a pickup truck is even remotely close to as durable as a skid steer? What about maintenance costs? After the initial purchase, a skid steer is very inexpensive to own, comparably.

.....................


----------



## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

snocrete;1883412 said:


> Not to get tooo far off track, but do any of you think a pickup truck is even remotely close to as durable as a skid steer? What about maintenance costs? After the initial purchase, a skid steer is very inexpensive to own, comparably.
> 
> .....................


Good point, that is what I was going to bring up, but didn't want to get into a war of words. Skids are way more durable than trucks.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Brian Young;1883103 said:


> They definitely have their place but I don't think a large or larger lot is it.
> By the time you invest in a skid and the "specialty tools" for it to make it useful you'd have 50-60k into it and it would basically have to do that lot. I'd rather spend that much money for something that can do more lots. A 10ft box will move a lot of snow but I bet a 9'6" v blade with wings will move just as much snow and twice as fast. Skids are perfect for condo's, a line of restaurants in a row etc. There just so many variables here to have a right answer.


Skids are for sure expensive, but look at the cost of a new truck, plow, and salter...you'd easily tie 40K up before taxes, closer to 45 if you bought new.


Brian Young;1883117 said:


> They are sweet but last I checked they were 11K!!!!!!!!! I was actually looking into a compact front loader with an HLA for a 3 mile strip of shops and offices with zero parking to begin with let alone piles of snow now, of course the cheap asses around here didn't want to commit to the 3 year deal.


They're pricey, but I'd be willing to place a good sum of money on one of those blades being able to do what 2 of our Arctic's can do in under 6 inches of snow. That's worth another 4K to me...one machine, one operator...you see where I'm going.


snocrete;1883412 said:


> Not to get tooo far off track, but do any of you think a pickup truck is even remotely close to as durable as a skid steer? What about maintenance costs? After the initial purchase, a skid steer is very inexpensive to own, comparably.
> 
> .....................


Absolutely agreed, skids are much tougher than trucks. They're built to push and be abused their entire lives, and need very little while doing it. They can carry more snow than a truck, stack higher than a truck, and turn better than a truck. But, at least in my experience, on our lots, no matter the operator in either piece, the trucks out plow the skids if the lot is larger and open.

I think the perfect combination is something along the lines of a Deere 244J or similar sized wheel loader that can run 19-20 MPH. Then you have the toughness of the skid steer, very close to the manuverability, the ability to run a 12 foot box, and carry the same ground speed in lots as the truck can. Then a truck wouldn't stand a chance. We just leased a 244J for the winter Wednesday, so with any luck after this winter I'll have hands on production on it compared to a skid. It'll be pushing a LD12 Arctic.


----------



## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

John_DeereGreen;1884420 said:


> Skids are for sure expensive, but look at the cost of a new truck, plow, and salter...you'd easily tie 40K up before taxes, closer to 45 if you bought new.
> 
> They're pricey, but I'd be willing to place a good sum of money on one of those blades being able to do what 2 of our Arctic's can do in under 6 inches of snow. That's worth another 4K to me...one machine, one operator...you see where I'm going.
> 
> ...


Your skids are not a fair comparison....but this guys is

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=135014&highlight=bobcat+s850


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

snocrete;1884430 said:


> Your skids are not a fair comparison....but this guys is
> 
> http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=135014&highlight=bobcat+s850


Jeepers, that thing is awesome!


----------



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

We all are right here,lol Im trying to stick to the op's post here about larger lots. 99.9% of the time your going to be wind rowing the snow and I'd rather do that at speeds other than 12mph. What would be awesome is if they made a skid steer that travels 20-30mph! I agree with John Deer here about the compact loaders but DAMN are they expensive! I didn't find one worth buying for under 20k! I would love to plow in a skid steer or a compact loader all night!


----------



## slco (Nov 26, 2014)

We use our skids on all smaller lots like McDonalds, Rite Aids, Walgreens, Speedways and so on all my trucks do the bigger lots. I think you might have it backwards.


----------



## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

slco;1884611 said:


> We use our skids on all smaller lots like McDonalds, Rite Aids, Walgreens, Speedways and so on all my trucks do the bigger lots. I think you might have it backwards.


ok......


----------

