# Bulk Salt In Wisconsin Illinois?



## natueboy (Nov 18, 2006)

Does anyone have any ides of anyone in the southern wisconsin / northern illinois area for bulk salt. I need about 2,000 tons for the season. We have some thru carghill, on a 1,500 ton request we got 120 tons max!!! I'd appreciate anyones help with this.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

the word that i got, was to wait until the illinois state bid was up on the 13th of this month


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## Zodiac (Jul 9, 2008)

From what I hear salt is going to be hard to find.

A lot of the towns in SE Wisconsin are having a hard time filling their orders.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

harder than normal

what i was tlod was the sate is ording 600,000 tons extra then they normally do

alont with every city and county ordering more


once the state bid is up, then the 3 or 4 major salt companies, will know whats going on,

who ever getts that state bid, will more than likely not be taking anymore orders for the season, howerver the other 2 or 3 should start opening up for pricing from private companys


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## 3311 (Oct 10, 2007)

I hear no bulk salt for for anyone other than muni's. I'm waiting for a quote from Cargill on 5 semis of bagged material. Holly sh ***** t


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## tls22 (Sep 30, 2007)

No salt for you said GB......50/50 blend you guys will be using!


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## The MAG Man (May 31, 2007)

elite1msmith;567723 said:


> the word that i got, was to wait until the illinois state bid was up on the 13th of this month


The IL state bid went off with no bids from all vendors. NO BIDS. That should tell you a lot about where things stand and what to expect. In fact, this is the sixth state level bid we've seen containing no bids on either all or part of the contract.

The upper midwest, along with many other regions of the country are in a severe problem for salt availability. No matter what anyone tells you about guarantees for supply, if you don't have 100% of what you will need for the winter on hand before the first flakes land, you're not going to have what you need for the winter.

_*Cold hard reality:*_
Salt companies have been taking a beating for decades and the proverbial eagle has now come home to roost. Municipalities will have to buy like everyone else this winter; spot market pricing at the time of shipment if available. Municipal contracts are very dictatorial and charge the vendor back any differential of buying on the spot market and getting it by any means possible if the vendor of record holding the contract is unable to deliver product. It was this "sting" clause that has lead to much of the midwest's problems on salt because that $50/ton contract is covering $250/ton replacement salt. Add to that international currencies and you have a formula for disaster.

As the dollar has weakened, foreign sources of supply have become less aggressive reaching only to coastal markets. That means the core of the country will have to rely on local supplies. Local sources are unable to satisfy demand so this is the leading edge of severe salt and deicing material shortages that will hit our country if we get any early weather at all. You can get all the salt you want from our stockpiles, but we are 800 miles away and the freight alone will be nearly $175/ton. Our stockpiles are on east coast ports of entry only. We don't sell beyond 150 miles from our stockpiles because we're not competitive. We were "backfilling" the WI and IL market last year from our mid-Atlantic stockpiles at a cost somewhere around $220/ton delivered. That's $10 worth the salt and $210 in transportation.

*Ugly future?*
When salt runs out or is unavailable, the market tends to move toward premium deicers. Supplies of premium deicers are very short because of reduced foreign competition. It was the imported premium deicers that reduced the number of calcium chloride manufacturers in the United States by 70%. 70% of the companies that made calcium chloride dry products in the US are now out of business. Think about that. If you lost 70% of the total output in anything, that's a problem if it is not picked up elsewhere. It was picked up elsewhere (imports) until now.

*Goes back to oil in two ways*
Oil is the root of the problem because salt is an inexpensive commodity in which 80% of the cost of it sitting on the pavement in the winter is transportation. 80% of the cost of that salt on the road, parkinglot, or sidewalk is transportation.

China was a major source of calcium chloride but with oil prices at $125 plus per barrel, calcium chloride produced in Europe, Asia, and other parts of the world is all going into oil drilling where they must have the product at any cost. They will pay whatver you ask because they have to have these products for drilling muds. An oil driller will pay $50/bag for calcium chloride but the deicing industry only pays around $10 or $11. Where would you sell your product if one market paid 5x as much for the same product and it was in short supply?

That's really all you need to know about salt. When transportation costs are impacted adversely and simultaneously with currency devaluation, you have a formula for severe shortages because the imports pull out.

*Only the early bird will get worms *
Like it or not, this is only the tip of the iceberg. Salt at the wholesale level is the worst I have ever seen it in 35 years of doing this. You need deicers for the winter? Buy them now or prepare your customers and your equipment to go without them. Like it or not, the most inexpensive and abundant deicing commodity is now in deep trouble just like premium deicers with no recovery in sight. As soon as it snows, things will got to heII in a handbasket.


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

While I agree that transportation costs and world economies play a role...this is still a supply and demand issue.

I sit on a salt mine 600 feet below my shoes that has enough salt to last a million years or so they say, as do a lot of the people here, yet we cant get or have to pay double for salt now?

Munincipalities are having problems too?

Thats a lot because the salt mines, of which there are only a few, control the market, have the supply, and are controlling the price.

They could ramp up production but why?

Why should they if overnight they can double prices, have people begging for product, and they dont have to increase cost.

I think the salt companies are stickin it to us. They saw and see an opportunity and are seizing upon it.

Is it right? Is it wrong? I'm not sure ...because maybe any or all of us would seize the same opportunity to profit.

Theres only a handful of companies making this happen.

Good post Mag....


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

I think you are partly correct.

fuel costs due play into the "production" of it, and the transportation.... as for upping production, maybe they see it as, a temperary problem? Think about it, if we didnt have the hard winter last year, would we be in this situation? IL -alone wants 600,000 additional tons....plus citys and counties
and i almost think that there are more "highway miles" within local cities....

so it they are almost doubling there order, this might only last a year, just depends

in the spring time, do you go buy additional equiptment to handle your "spring rush" -NO, or maybe just a few extra workers...but i dont think most of us, are doubeling the size of our companies , just for that rush

the equiptment that they would need to increase production is in the millions of dollars range, so really it make more business sence to just increase the cost...and due some overtime, '

but i still think the wole thing is a load of crap...

snowpower.... how fare DOWN does your property go?... i have a shovel


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

Well do some research on how much salt we are sitting on vs the number of companies that have access or rights and there in lies a large part of the issue.

I hate to sound simplistic or conspiritorial but not unlike the oil companies and their record profits, perhaps they saw the same opportunity to seize the moment.

And not unlike the oil companies....there are only a select few producers of salt.

You watch their bottom lines all skyrocket, while we all freak out and the industry is forced to make major changes, or once again be forced to eat a large part of the cost and make less profit.

If salt really doubles in price it will take years for the cost structure on the contractor end to even come close to stabilizing.

I'm dealing with the same thing on the fertilizer side.

The days of 2-3 times cost applied are history. But feel free to cheer me up and restore my hope and tell me you can get 250 a ton applied. Thats gonna be tough.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Your right.... its the same with fuel , and fert 100%

as much as i would like to say $50.00 to mow that small house....

there is some guy thats gonna due it for $25


we can all say , lets up are rate 300 per ton, but there will still be contractors spreading it for $150 

i wish i could give us all better news.... i talk to 6 different brokers today...they all seem like they can get salt , but no one will say at what cost, until the end of this week (state bid) is holding it up


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## The MAG Man (May 31, 2007)

Snowpower;568183 said:


> I sit on a salt mine 600 feet below my shoes that has enough salt to last a million years or so they say, as do a lot of the people here, yet we cant get or have to pay double for salt now?...They could ramp up production but why?...I think the salt companies are stickin it to us. They saw and see an opportunity and are seizing upon it.
> 
> Is it right? Is it wrong? I'm not sure ...because maybe any or all of us would seize the same opportunity to profit..


Not exactly.

This really nothing more than "Business 101" if you will. Your profile doesn't say what your business is, but let me ask you if you'd sink money into a snowplow manufacturing business right now? I will assume, for the sake of argument, that your answer would be no because the market is saturated, steel costs are all time highs, and plow prices are very competitive. The barriers to entry (the cost of erecting a plant and filling it with equipment) are too steep to justify the current return on investment. Again, assuming that answer is fair then imagine that you are now a salt company. You already have a plant, but it's held together with bailing wire and twine and is in desparate need of massive improvements. Add to that the fact that some portion of the mineral rights you had and developed are now underwater.

Salt companies, and particularly those in your region, have had intense foreign competition from Canada (every $1 US used to give them $1.50 CDN but now it's barely on a par) and many other places in your region using the river system to float salt in. The local salt producers were not making money because of all this competition so they couldn't reinvest in their business with new equipment and large storage facilities. This is not a business where you can go in and mine 2 million tons of salt and then park it somewhere until the market improves. Salt companies balance their production, staff, equipment, and everything to meet the market that they have. Mines frequently flood and the cost of keeping them dry is balanced against the return on investment from the marketplace leaving many salt companies to walk away from flooded mines. Heard of any salt mines flooding and closing in your area in the past 20 years? Sound familiar? They simply can't pick up the difference any more than we can quickly (months) deliver more gasoline and diesel to a short market with high prices and fix our oil problems.

The salt companies ain't stickin' it to anyone. The market has been sticking it to the salt companies for years by supporting foreign supplies because they were cheap. Now that those cheap foreign goods are drying up, things are not so rosey and the production and distribution systems of the remaining domestic salt companies is woefully inadequate to meet demand.

The comments about this being a supply and demand issue are absolutely correct. The problem is supply will be a long time before it meets demand if you are looking to the local sources to pick up the slack. Get oil down to $30/bbl and the dollar on a par with the Euro and these problems will go away overnight. With all due respect, if you think that waiting it out is the answer, you're going to find the wait very painful with no end in sight.

Supply and demand is exactly what this is and the supply is woefully short of demand so that means if you want it, you have to pay the going rate. Is that fair market cost the cost of salt plus transportation from North Carolina? From Chile? From Canada? Until oil gets cheap, salt will be pricey.

Avoid the blame game of indicting salt companies and empathize with the fact that they have been gettin' the shaft for years and now the market will have to endure the fair market price they set. What if the price of salt at $120/ton is what it really costs them in today's money to get it to the market? Are they screwin' anyone or are they simply charging their costs plus a reasonable profit? Watch the earnings reports for salt companies over the next 12 months. Sure they are going to come up, but look what they have to reinvest in their infrastructure in order to stay in it. This is like looking at the factories along the river and wondering why they no longer make the clothing there that we wear every day.

This problem will not go away this winter or next winter. If anyone thinks the salt business is better than plowin for a livin' make us an offer we can't refuse.
:salute:


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Good Post - Mag


While , i think the pricing has gone up for what ever reason



HERES MY BIGGEST COMPLAINT , Why can i not get Solid pricing Now.....ok, if i have to pay $120 plus.... i learn to live with it.... but salt companies have had all summer to see this coming. I have Bid proposals, that i have to turn in. Suppy and demand, sure..i dont blame you for increasing your price, thats just good business skills

but y in the heck, can you not nail down a firm price, or figure out , at this time, just what your production will be? if the mines are underwater, im sure that pumping them , can be built into your pricing... and its august, they must be drying out a little

these kinda of problems need to be addressed much sooner in the season, like in June.... now your market has created a panic... what do i tell my customers, that are requesting bids? ill give it to you in sept? and they will sit on it for 30 days... so i will only have 1 month to prepare for winter... its completeley crazy.

in crease ur pricing , sure as you see the need, but dont make YOUR customers (us) wait to figure out how fare ur gonna stick it too us.... thats just bad business. i have no problem, paying a higher amount.... and even trading some of the cost, until the market catches up, but at least figure out your production, and Say YES or NO, so i can plan accordingly


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## The MAG Man (May 31, 2007)

Elite I understand your frustration. It isn't that *you *can't get firm pricing, its really more that nobody can.

I can guarantee you a firm price if you can predict 100% of our energy costs from now until 3/31/09. That's the stumbling block - energy. Whether its running equipment in the mine, or running the trucks and railcars hauling to the stockpiles, or in the trucks hauling it to your doorstep - energy is the big unknown.

If the State bids can't get firm pricing nobody can in all fairness. The bunny is looking at 500,000 ton carrot in the State of IL bid and that's a $50million dollar bid at $100/ton, or a half a billion at $1,000/ton. I look at that and think "what the heII, I'll bid $1,000/ton" which I'm sure will be a safe number and frankly at that price I could go buy salt in Antarctica and bring it in and still make money if I had to. But the reality is if the state really would award such a bid at a price 20x last year's price. I'll say this: If they did and I got it at $1k/ton, I'd take all the members of this site to Cancun for a weekend on us...all 28,000 of you! lol

It's still oil. That black gold finds its way into everything we touch one way or another. Oil makes predicting costs impossible and therein is why things are upside down and you can't get firm prices.

You could open up an unending political discussion at this point about OPEC and lots of other aspects of oil in the American lifestyle, but to what end?

Speaking of which, you want to invest some time that explains everything on oil and why we can never win the "lower the price by flooding the market" war on oil prices? Check out this:





This is a C-span broadcast that is broken into 7 segments on You Tube to stay under the 10 minute cap. I encourage anyone interested to watch all 7 segments. It is very sobering and in fact is the impotice behind my remark about OPEC. Oil is the problem for salt and will be until global economics improve the currencies such that it creates a new problem, or competitive edge.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

While i realize that you may not be able to predict our energy cost in January, at this point... that still doesnt stop you from nailing in a firm price, if i said " COME TODAY, i want salt TODAY , NOW" that is my point...

im sure you could figure out , at this moment, right now, what it costs per ton, or per truck load....

and if no one wants to give the state a firm bid price either, then sell to them like you due to us... based on avaliblity at the time of purchase. So right now, today, i would think that it would be avalible, and that you could come up with a price, if i paid cash today, and took delivery...

but the fact of the matter is, the brokers cant get it, because the main manufactures, are not willing to start selling it, for those that are ready to take delivery.

anyone with basic business sence would say ...."well if the mines need to be pumped, then we should start selling it now, and make money now" this way you could afford to start pupming them out. im sure there is alot more to the other side of this coin than i realize,

but basicly, they are all holding out for the state bids, which will be very high... and we are the "back up plan" , if they dont sell to the state at a high price, then they know we will pay it.


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## 84deisel (Dec 2, 2003)

got my letter from morton today my price went from$45 a ton last year to $90 a ton this year and that is at the stock pile, they also are requiring that you are have to pay for your total allotment no matter how much you actually pick up.(IE: light year, you only go through 80 % of your allotment ,in years past thats all they billed you for but now you pay for that 20% still in there pile) Also heard that morton told the state to go away and find somebody else so it looks like a rough year all around here.


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## Zodiac (Jul 9, 2008)

I buy my salt in fifty pound bags, by the pallet, from my employer. I get it at ten percent over cost. So my employer makes a little, I make a little. 

Until this year, all I had was a little Scotts spreader, I rarely used it. I had a pallet of salt (40 X 50LB bags) sitting in my garage, and I had went through a little under half of it, about prolly 900LBS or so, right around the end of January. That's when the salt shortage really hit, and I was selling bags to my neighbors for what I paid, and to everyone else for double. I was the only place you could find sale in my area. I went through the other 1100LBS in under a week, without spreading it, just by selling it. 

I was planning on buying several pallets, and loading my garage up this winter, and just hang on to it until the shortage came, then selling it.

But today I was told they aren't sure they'll be able to even get salt, and if they do, it won't be until the end of December or so, unless something changes.


Looks like I won't use my salter this year afterall.


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## Patrick34 (Feb 8, 2004)

What I cannot figure out is why are all the brokers, suppliers etc. saying it is going to be $80-$90 per ton, and the county has there salt this year for $33 per ton. Yes, $33 per ton. Oakland county Michigan, according to their website (public information) they are buying salt for this season at $33/ton.


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## Snowpower (Sep 2, 2007)

lol....See?

Doesn't matter if you are Exxon Mobil, Cargill or Patrick34from Michigan with his half pallet of salt. 

We gots the supply, and you have the demand. Now pay me.

heh


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Snowpower;568355 said:


> lol....See?
> 
> Doesn't matter if you are Exxon Mobil, Cargill or Patrick34from Michigan with his half pallet of salt.
> 
> ...


only if you will deliver this week, and can give me a firm price...do you want cash of check?


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## Flipper (Nov 1, 2001)

Munis always get better rates. My town is paying $2 something for diesel, while I pay $4.59.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

The MAG Man;568230 said:


> I can guarantee you a firm price if you can predict 100% of our energy costs from now until 3/31/09. That's the stumbling block - energy. Whether its running equipment in the mine, or running the trucks and railcars hauling to the stockpiles, or in the trucks hauling it to your doorstep - energy is the big unknown.
> 
> If the State bids can't get firm pricing nobody can in all fairness. The bunny is looking at 500,000 ton carrot in the State of IL bid and that's a $50million dollar bid at $100/ton, or a half a billion at $1,000/ton. I look at that and think "what the heII, I'll bid $1,000/ton" which I'm sure will be a safe number and frankly at that price I could go buy salt in Antarctica and bring it in and still make money if I had to. But the reality is if the state really would award such a bid at a price 20x last year's price. I'll say this: If they did and I got it at $1k/ton, I'd take all the members of this site to Cancun for a weekend on us...all 28,000 of you! lol
> 
> It's still oil. That black gold finds its way into everything we touch one way or another. Oil makes predicting costs impossible and therein is why things are upside down and you can't get firm prices.


OK, most of your posts make sense, to an extent. But this part is just utter BS. Energy costs have been rising a LOT for the last 2 years and I was able to get a firm price on salt. Now all of a sudden when it's double what it was 3 years ago, it's impossible? Baloney.

And to an extent you are correct about flooding the market with oil. We need to be able to refine it as well.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

I have gotten some pricing back, but not from everyone... alot of places called and said by the end of this week.

what i having a problem , is getting a date, and how much they are willing to sell


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## hotshot4819 (Oct 17, 2006)

flipper, i hear you there, any the funny thing is, i bet i use more fuel a year then my town does.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

hotshot, i dont know were you live, but around here...they go through alot of fuel

this is what i see normally during the summer

6 guys on site, =2 guys working, 3 stuipid-vise, 1 points

all 6 guys take there own trucks, and we are talking internationals, not pick ups

even though they are less than 10 mins from the shop..... i love were my tax dollars goussmileyflag

plus they have to drive back to the shop , before lunch, take a break , then drive back to the site.... they need to learn to pile 3 guys into a regular cab, and take bagged lunches, like my mowing crews


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Talked to Cargill and NASC neither of which we've done business with in the past, both told us we couldn't contract for any salt in Wisconsin, but were willing to put us on a list if additional supply becomes available.


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## The MAG Man (May 31, 2007)

elite1msmith;568237 said:


> While i realize that you may not be able to predict our energy cost in January, at this point... that still doesnt stop you from nailing in a firm price, if i said " COME TODAY, i want salt TODAY , NOW" that is my point...
> 
> im sure you could figure out , at this moment, right now, what it costs per ton, or per truck load....


 You're right. If someone has salt on the ground in their terminal right now, they absolpositutely know what it cost them. The part that you might not be considering is that they might have already taken on commitments for those tons that are on the ground and plan on using them to fill exisiting commitments. New commitments, meaning anything from this time forward, are going to be at replacement costs and they do not have a _clear _view of replacement costs. So the tons on the ground are worth a lot more than they were when they went there.

The fact is that salt is a commodity. It was a strategic commodity until about 150 years ago. It was used as currency and bartered in the same way oil is currently being exploited; countries that needed it were exploited by countries that had it. Salt was used as an economic weapon and that is possible with virtually any commodity; sugar, corn, wheat, soy, (think the US doesn't manipulate these?) oil, coal, and on and on. It's all up for grabs if a commodity goes short. How about starting a war over salt?

So yes, you are correct that anyone who has salt on the ground at the terminals knows exactly what it costs. But you must consider the replacement costs when selling it. Inventory values adjust "live", so while you can make a killing in an up market, its the exact opposite when market prices are dropping and you have 500,000 tons in a big pile by pier. So everyone is playing it cozy right now and trying to figure out where the price will land and how much it will cost to replace the shortfall this year. I think this will take two years to settle out based on the current state of economic conditions. Many more if it doesn't snow this winter. We are still severely short for this winter in many markets and therein lies the problems and the opportunities. If it doesn't snow, then all the forecasting of future costs is simply an exercise in math and we will be fine with what we have. If it snows in November, or even before Christmas, all bets are off and it will be ugly beyond belief.

Will companies make money right now? You bet, nbut is that immoral or wrong? To me, it's just business.

Think of it this way: If suddenly all of your plowing competitors tripled their price after a company with 1/4 of the market pulled out, would you raise your plowing prices where you could, or would tell the customer the market is going nutso because of a plowing company shortage and you're going to hold your prices at last year's number and take on all the people left out in the "cold"?

My guess is you'd go up and see what you can get on new business, and at the same time honor existing business but be really careful to not overextend yourself. Take the sure thing and make a little more on it but protect the business that got you here. That is precisely what salt companies are doing with municipal demand right now.

Municipal markets are essentially risk free fairly predicatable markets. That's why salt companies go after them. They tell you right up front what they plan to use for the whole winter, then they sign a contract to take most of it up front before the first flakes fly, and they don't go bankrupt...or at least rarely go bankrupt so the debt losses are virtually nil. If you were offered a sure thing in business _you'd be nuts to not take it._

That hopefully explains why what's on the ground is not for sale and they don't know what their replacement costs will be on product coming in, and since salt is managed on a "live market" inventory basis, prices to non-contract business will be determined when replacement costs are nailed down

You can find a lot of interesting tidbits about salt at the Salt Institute's website: http://www.saltinstitute.org/38.html

My advice is to do the best you can right now at any cost and hope you make the winter. Unless a lot of things implode in a hurry, I don't see the price going down or the availability going up for at least two seasons. All the factors I mentioned in my first two posts here are still in place to land unfavorably on the midwest and that will spread to the coasts very quickly. If that happens, full on panic will set in and prices will go insane.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

The MAG Man;570894 said:


> Y
> 
> Will companies make money right now? You bet, nbut is that immoral or wrong? To me, it's just business.
> 
> ...


lol, justify it all you want
...

first im not arguing the price, like most other ppl on this site.....and i could

but if i can bit, a customer for a seasonal account, from now, till end of april...maybe even include a landscape bid for 1 full season...then surly you can get a price figured out as well...fuel and energy have been stable all summer long, even starting to drop...

and i read all this stuff about muni. getting it at 80 ton or less, while we are over 100

heres a buisness tip ,....f the mun, and sell to the guys willing to take delivery now, and pay for it now at a high price...

what i am saying is.. I WILL PAY NOW< TAKE DELIVERY IN YOUR SLOW SEASON NOW, AND PAY THE HIGHER THAN MUNI< PRICE NOW

so if i was a business man i would sell to the highest bidder

and your boarder line running a monoply with words to those effects, hop the government doesnt see it that way


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## The MAG Man (May 31, 2007)

I'm not justifying anything. I'm trying to respond to your questions and explain why salt is in such trouble right now. 

As far as a monopoly goes, if you have only one source for salt - that's a monopoly. The power company, telephone, and cable companies used to be monopolies but now that's changing. If you have multiple sources that's a free market. There are many gas stations with different names and owners where you can buy gasoline in just about any region, but the prices are all within a couple of percent of each other. Is that a monopoly? 

If you have demand that exceeds the available supply from multiple sources, that's a tight market. The government that you think should be worried about a monopoly is the same government that created the laws which demanded that its' communities purchase foreign salt at low prices in favor of the local supplies at higher prices thereby driving many of them out of business. So lets not forget that the problem was created by a system whereby the lowest possible cost is the determining factor irrespective of whether or not it bankrupts the business in town that is paying the taxes which fund the purchase of the product that is bankrupting the business.

Understand the dynamic of the issue and you will be better able to manage it.

You want to fix this problem? Take the Wal-Mart mentality of only the lowest price out of business and government purchasing and support American businesses that are the fabric of our nation.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

hey if the state wants to pay a low price thats there buiness. if they want to fool around


if i were you guys...ill tell them the heck with you... i have lots of contractors willing to pay a higher price... and willing to pay cash and take delivery now


and ssir , you are correct the word monoply does mean one company


but heres a few new words... " LATERAL PRICE FIXING" and it illegal ...... your very close to that one .... 

government does regualt fuel cost to be sure that the gas stations are not over charging... 


as i am told, hardly any state contracts have been awarded...therfore, you have the salt on hand to fill your current contracts.. so y not sell to the contractors... we will pay you more money ... you claim the salt mines are broke... that because your not business sence and trying to get state bids, at 1/2 the price... start selling to contractors, and you will make more money , with less salt out of your mine


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## tls22 (Sep 30, 2007)

elite1msmith;571668 said:


> hey if the state wants to pay a low price thats there buiness. if they want to fool around
> 
> if i were you guys...ill tell them the heck with you... i have lots of contractors willing to pay a higher price... and willing to pay cash and take delivery now
> 
> ...


I think you guys should go to every restaurant in town and empty all the salt shakers and see what you end up with!


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

you know whats funny think about that.... the other day i went to make koolaid , for a few vodka drinks... being out of sugar... i turned to the small cofee sugar packs just to make one glass

thats how i feel about bagged salt....


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

elite1msmith;571701 said:


> you know whats funny think about that.... the other day i went to make koolaid , for a few vodka drinks... being out of sugar... i turned to the small cofee sugar packs just to make one glass


A sugar shortage too.............................what hell :realmad:


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

haha... i was just like... wtf am i gonna do now.. i really need a drink


oh and toby.... i might be looking into a new truck soon,... im gonna give the SW a fair honest look at.. your a good rep, we need that kina service out here


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

elite1msmith;571706 said:


> haha... i was just like... wtf am i gonna do now.. i really need a drink
> 
> oh and toby.... i might be looking into a new truck soon,... im gonna give the SW a fair honest look at.. your a good rep, we need that kina service out here


Thats funny ! My local dealer is in Erie


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## amscontr (Dec 7, 2007)

There are several salt facilities/terminal near the St.Louis area. Last year they seemed to be out,then all of a sudden they had extra. the laws of supply and demand I guess


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## chitownsnowedin (Feb 5, 2008)

Some on here state they've gotten prices from their suppliers. Care to share who is supplying you? I have called everyone, including companies I have done business with in the past and they are all saying no.


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

"I can guarantee you a firm price if you can predict 100% of our energy costs from now until 3/31/09." Mag, with all due respect that is total BS. Think of the thousands of commodities, supplies, services, etc, that are all dependent on energy prices. We buy a lot of shingles in the summer, which are made from oil, and prices fluctuate with the cost of oil. If I went to my supplier and said I want to buy x amount of shingles and he said "I dont have pricing for you so you can't buy them" , and I said "No, I want them now", and he still wouldn't sell them to me it would be considered ridiculous.

If 80% of the price of salt is fuel, and fuel has doubled over the last 5 years then salt that was $35 a ton 5 years ago should be $63 a ton roughly. Fine, sell it to us for that amount. I don't think you will find too many here feeling sorry for Cargill, Morton, or NASC to be honest with you. 

And for the guys *****ing about the increased prices, unless you have contracts locked at a certain price.....so what? I got no problem passing the cost on to my customers and making money. $150 per ton last year? Guess what buddy, its up to $250, salt prices are way up. If we ALL pass the prices on to our customers we are good!


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

I also have no problem passing the higher prices of salt on to potential and existing customers either but the thing I fear is that there are plenty of contractors out there who are just assuming they are going to have all the salt they need at decent prices. I just got off the phone with a potential customer who told me he signed up with someone else because our salt price was 65% higher, hmmm wonder why that is. 


Our supplier from the past few years got back to us last week. said $70/ton and we can get 250 tons that we are contracted for, but not a bit more, unfortunately for us, we used 900 last year. Found bag salt in illinois that comes out to $146 a ton.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Longae29;573491 said:


> I also have no problem passing the higher prices of salt on to potential and existing customers either but the thing I fear is that there are plenty of contractors out there who are just assuming they are going to have all the salt they need at decent prices. I just got off the phone with a potential customer who told me he signed up with someone else because our salt price was 65% higher, hmmm wonder why that is.
> 
> Our supplier from the past few years got back to us last week. said $70/ton and we can get 250 tons that we are contracted for, but not a bit more, unfortunately for us, we used 900 last year. Found bag salt in illinois that comes out to $146 a ton.


may i ask , were you found bagged for that price, ?


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## PLM PAVING (Aug 22, 2008)

I would love to know where to even PURCHASE bulk salt. We are in need of 1500-2000 tons and every supplier I have found is refusing new accounts. Our supplier from last year isnt even going to meet our demand! 
We are looking at pricing from Canada now. 
IF ANYONE KNOWS A SUPPLIER FOR WISCONSIN, PLEASE CONTACT ME AT 262-691-3964 EXT 24 Gary Zimmerman


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Just got a nice quote of $151.50 a ton from a supplier here in town. Good Deal !


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Longae29;573913 said:


> Just got a nice quote of $151.50 a ton from a supplier here in town. Good Deal !


sounds way, way to high


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Yeah, thats just ridiculous.....we have enough left in our bin to last a while, no way we're paying that kind of price right now.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

try $232 per ton delivered....haha


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## NorthwestPlower1 (Feb 4, 2001)

I am about to sue a salt supplier in IL. they made a deal with me at a price then renigged and I read in the newspaper they are selling a salt to a municipality for a higher amount. They have till 8:00a.m. to ring my phone and honor my deal or I am filing suit against them and a motion to stop delivery to the municipality until this case is heard. Upon their promise to me I entered into a contract to deliver the product to a customer. Greed gets you sued. I will make a post once this case gets filed. I will also be informing the media.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

did you acctually , have a signed contract? sign by both parties, prior to its experation date?


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Eastern Salt Company, Gunther Salt, United Salt, Morton, Cargill, NASC, Independent Salt, Envirotech, Hutchinson, New Mexico Salt, American Rock Salt, Anyone know of any others?


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

most of the places that i have been calling will need another week or so


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

this just seems crazy. i think i would b better off, just payin gthe worker, to use a push spreader, and bagged triblend, i did that a few times last season... id say that most cases we could treate the same area with half the qty , as bulk rock salt

makes me wish i had a semi truck to just ship it myself


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

NorthwestPlower1;574229 said:


> I am about to sue a salt supplier in IL. they made a deal with me at a price then renigged and I read in the newspaper they are selling a salt to a municipality for a higher amount. They have till 8:00a.m. to ring my phone and honor my deal or I am filing suit against them and a motion to stop delivery to the municipality until this case is heard. Upon their promise to me I entered into a contract to deliver the product to a customer. Greed gets you sued. I will make a post once this case gets filed. I will also be informing the media.


i dont think a muni will give a flying crap whether or not you were supposed to get that salt.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

iceyman;574428 said:


> i dont think a muni will give a flying crap whether or not you were supposed to get that salt.


it technically wouldn't matter what the muni thinks... instead he would be suing the salt supplier, and putting a hold on the salt , which is an asset for the company, which a court could legally do, but i cant honestly think a judge would ever grant that


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

NorthwestPlower1;574229 said:


> I am about to sue a salt supplier in IL. they made a deal with me at a price then renigged and I read in the newspaper they are selling a salt to a municipality for a higher amount. They have till 8:00a.m. to ring my phone and honor my deal or I am filing suit against them and a motion to stop delivery to the municipality until this case is heard. Upon their promise to me I entered into a contract to deliver the product to a customer. Greed gets you sued. I will make a post once this case gets filed. I will also be informing the media.


So did they ring your phone?


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

We hit the jackpot today!!! 18 tons at $115. 1982 more to go.......wesport


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

great job! now if you cut ur salt usage by 900% you might have all you need


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

I bit the proverbial bullet. I just bought 40 skids of bagged rock salt from Menards of all places. It's on sale for $4.00 per bag and I am a member of their contractor club so I get it delivered and stacked for FREE. Price comes out to $160.00 per ton, which is what bulk is going for around here. I figured I can store the bagged easier and don't have to worry about it clumping up. And yes, it is the blue bagged "Extra Coarse" water softener salt. We used it at the end of last year and it worked great, the sidewalk guys actually preferred it!

Its about half the salt I need for an average year, what I am hoping is we get minimal snow in December and bulk prices drop significantly. If it does, i will go back to bulk and keep the bagged for sidewalks. (Although it may take a few seasons to go though all that just using it on sidewalks!)


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## ptllandscapeIL (Jan 15, 2004)

Ive got,ice a way bagged 50lbs for with tax 185.00 a pallet already picked up 5 going back due to the rain monday to get 5 more


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## Bporter (Aug 29, 2007)

I got bagged at 4.15 a bag delivered of ice melt pretty good stuff it comes from carghill my semi load will be here by the end of the month. thats about a third but i just don't have the room to store many more pallets than that but i think i'm going to have to.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

We're in the process of picking up our "emergency supply" of salt. 2 semi loads of 1 ton totes, and 2 semi loads of bags. Now all we have to do is get our regular supply and we'll be set. The gal where we were picking up told us an interesting story. She said morton told them that there's not going to be as many bags as they had planned because the barge is or was delayed in getting up the mississippi due to hurricanes. Sounds to me like they're really working their way through their rolodex of excuses.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Longae29;585622 said:


> We're in the process of picking up our "emergency supply" of salt. 2 semi loads of 1 ton totes, and 2 semi loads of bags. Now all we have to do is get our regular supply and we'll be set. The gal where we were picking up told us an interesting story. She said morton told them that there's not going to be as many bags as they had planned because the barge is or was delayed in getting up the mississippi due to hurricanes. Sounds to me like they're really working their way through their rolodex of excuses.


The hurricanes were pretty well advertised and did affect the Mississippi. It is true that it is their path of travel. Sounds more like a good reason for the delay than an excuse.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

TCLA;585642 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> The hurricanes were pretty well advertised and did affect the Mississippi. It is true that it is their path of travel. Sounds more like a good reason for the delay than an excuse.


In addition, that 'minor' flooding earlier this year in IL, MO and IA caused a stoppage of barges for a month or so.

Sounds pretty logical to me.


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

Patrick34;568308 said:


> What I cannot figure out is why are all the brokers, suppliers etc. saying it is going to be $80-$90 per ton, and the county has there salt this year for $33 per ton. Yes, $33 per ton. Oakland county Michigan, according to their website (public information) they are buying salt for this season at $33/ton.


Yeah, our county here got it for $45/ton. That's insanely low compared to what everyone else is paying.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

I was down near the port of milwaukee last night for a wedding, theres a new big big big pile of salt that wasnt there 2 or 3 weeks ago, hopefully some of it is for us.


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

Longae29;596980 said:


> I was down near the port of milwaukee last night for a wedding, theres a new big big big pile of salt that wasnt there 2 or 3 weeks ago, hopefully some of it is for us.


I live right by the port and drive by it almost on a daily basis. There is more salt down there now than I have seen in the last 10 years. All I am gonna say is if we have a winter with even just average snow fall totals salt SHOULD be coming down drastically in price. If not, the whole "shortage" issue will be exposed as price gouging!


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## bigplowguy (Aug 18, 2008)

Does anyone want to spread salt in the Chicago area for $140.00 per ton I have a client that got prices for that amount. If you want to spread it for that price we normaly go through about 2000 tons a winter you can do all of mine thats less than what I am paying just to buy it and ship it to my shop.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

bigplowguy;607176 said:


> Does anyone want to spread salt in the Chicago area for $140.00 per ton I have a client that got prices for that amount. If you want to spread it for that price we normaly go through about 2000 tons a winter you can do all of mine thats less than what I am paying just to buy it and ship it to my shop.


You get the feeling there's a few guys who haven't got pricing on salt this year yet?


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## bigplowguy (Aug 18, 2008)

Yeah nothing like sending out your proposals before you know what salt is going to cost you and then having it cost you more than what you are charging. Once they go to order there salt they will know why they have so many new contracts


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

I can't wait for the influx of posts on here from guys that are just now finding out what salt prices are. Or the phone calls from their customers when they fail to show up this year after realizing salt costs more than they bid to spread it!!!!!!


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

The guy that just brought us a load of salt said the pile in the port of milwaukee is getting "pretty small". Not surprising I guess, but a couple weeks ago there was "a lot"


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

If anyone needs phone numbers or pricing for salt PM me, we're all set for the year now so i'd be willing to share my research.

It's not all cheap, but surely available.


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## elite1msmith (Sep 10, 2007)

Longae29;715639 said:


> If anyone needs phone numbers or pricing for salt PM me, we're all set for the year now so i'd be willing to share my research.
> 
> It's not all cheap, but surely available.


funny, this is one of the WORST winters on record... i think it even beat last yr

were is the "shortage"? Please, if there is a salt supplier on this site.... I was told the high price was due to the "shortage" that becasue they werent sure if they had enough

funny- BLAME GAME

floooding - minor issure

high price of fuel - its lower than it has been in 8 yrs

whats next?


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## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

Seems like everything is getting that way. Shingles, salt, fuel, etc. I'm sure you all could add to this list. The screw job game.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

There surely is no shortage, just have to pay less than ideal prices for it.


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## JKRAUT (Oct 5, 2009)

*Bulk Salt For Sale*

I Have Bulk Rock Salt for Winter Immediate use contact me @ [email protected] for more Info

Thanks Salt Solutions


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