# Working with ferrandino and son



## mp1127

This is my first year dealing with this company, I'm responsible for snow removal at a shopping plaza through them. I have yet to receive one payment from them for services beginning in early December. I'm passed their 45 day mark for payment. Does anybody have any experience working with these guys? Should I be worried? I've been 100% compliant so far with insurance, work orders, getting things done on time etc. I've invested a lot of working capital here and feel like I'm getting burned. Any info is greatly appreciated.


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## Antlerart06

Well they have a bad rap on not paying 

I pass on one bid this year Walgreens Well another company took it on Plowed it in Dec and Jan and they never got a payment for Dec So they stop plowing. In Feb different company started plowing it now. He was told about not getting paid from other company. So we ill see if he gets paid


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## Masssnowfighter

You will most likely get paid but they will jerk you around for a while to give themselves some extra time to come up with the money. Ferrandino is a horrible company to be a sub for. I will never work for them again


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## xtreem3d

It sort of makes sense..... some of these companies get the big contracts but are too small and can't bankroll them until they get their money. I only have about 17 employees and with 7 events in about 28 days I can barely bankroll it so I can imagine what it's like for them..YIKES !!!!!


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## skorum03

I was always under the impression that these larger companies get paid say on Dec 30 by walgreens for december services, then get paid on january 30 for january services, then pay you by end of february but wait to pay you because they collect a little interest on the money large amounts of money that sits in their accounts for a few months at a time. Think about it from a national's perspective, all that interest probably adds up.


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## TKLAWN

Have you contacted them?? Get an answer or quit before you get buried.


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## mp1127

I've been in contact with them, everytime I call they promise a check next week. Well we're now on the 5th next week. I think I'm going to lawyer up on this one. Thanks for all the info guys!


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## CHCSnowman

skorum03;1751572 said:


> I was always under the impression that these larger companies get paid say on Dec 30 by walgreens for december services, then get paid on january 30 for january services, then pay you by end of february but wait to pay you because they collect a little interest on the money large amounts of money that sits in their accounts for a few months at a time. Think about it from a national's perspective, all that interest probably adds up.


Our company collects a month later...so they will bill Decembers work Jan. 1st with payment due by Feb. 1st. So like last week they got paid for December work.....March 1st they will get paid for January work, etc.

It has caught a lot of smaller companies this year........takes deep pockets to pay and wait.


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## skorum03

CHCSnowman;1751835 said:


> Our company collects a month later...so they will bill Decembers work Jan. 1st with payment due by Feb. 1st. So like last week they got paid for December work.....March 1st they will get paid for January work, etc.
> 
> It has caught a lot of smaller companies this year........takes deep pockets to pay and wait.


I plowed with a company that was subbing for ECO or whatever theyre called and I know they were like 90 days behind on payment. He got his last payment in July. You're right though, lots of smaller companies can't cash flow on these high snow years.


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## ProEnterprises

mp1127;1751259 said:


> This is my first year dealing with this company, I'm responsible for snow removal at a shopping plaza through them. I have yet to receive one payment from them for services beginning in early December. I'm passed their 45 day mark for payment. Does anybody have any experience working with these guys? Should I be worried? I've been 100% compliant so far with insurance, work orders, getting things done on time etc. I've invested a lot of working capital here and feel like I'm getting burned. Any info is greatly appreciated.


Mp: what account are you doing for them in CT?


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## Camden

mp1127;1751259 said:


> This is my first year dealing with this company, I'm responsible for snow removal at a shopping plaza through them. I have yet to receive one payment from them for services beginning in early December. I'm passed their 45 day mark for payment. Does anybody have any experience working with these guys? Should I be worried? I've been 100% compliant so far with insurance, work orders, getting things done on time etc. I've invested a lot of working capital here and feel like I'm getting burned. Any info is greatly appreciated.


I don't want to kick you when you're down but did you do any research on them before you signed their contract? If you type their name into the search box on this site you'll find dozens (possibly hundreds) of posts from contractors who haven't been paid by them.

Next time you agree to work for a management company do some homework and it could save you a lot of headaches. Good luck, I hope you get paid soon.


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## precisioncare

mp1127;1751729 said:


> I've been in contact with them, everytime I call they promise a check next week. Well we're now on the 5th next week. I think I'm going to lawyer up on this one. Thanks for all the info guys!


I had the same problem, promise...promise...promise. It took about 5-6 weeks of their crap and I finally got paid. My contract is NET 45 with them and it was about 68 days before I got my first check. So I have started the process again in hopes that dec plowing services will be paid on feb 15 as it is supposed to.

The contract I have with them pays avg. for my area nothing special but not losing my a** like some, what I don't understand is how are they not in "breech of contract" by not paying within the said 45 days?


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## Camden

precisioncare;1751962 said:


> what I don't understand is how are they not in "breech of contract" by not paying within the said 45 days?


Because I bet there's language in your contract that gives them leniency to pay you whenever they want (or possibly to not pay you at all). That's how they operate.

I see that you just joined this site last month so you're probably not aware that these types of issues pop up constantly around here. Type Ferrandino into the search box in the upper right hand corner of the screen and start reading. Keep in mind that many of the threads about them have been deleted so what you're going to find is only a small portion of the overall total.


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## precisioncare

Will do thanks


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## Camden

This might be helpful to you and the originator of this thread:

>>I can assist you in collecting the $1,277 that is rightfully owed to your company from Ferrandino & Sons. "Google" Thrive Collection Services in Vancouver, WA for my contact information. Ask for Zack Wallace and best regards... <<

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Ferra...-excuses-wont-pay-Farmingdale-New-York-986246


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## atlanta55

I have been told that they sit on the money they collect and they earn interest on it and they hold the contractors off until they absolutely have to pay. Word in Indy is getting around quick, they are going through contractors really fast. I have received a few checks but nothing close to the amount still owed. Some contractors around here are talking about a class action lawsuit, and some are talking about putting liens on the buildings which will force legal expense for Ferrandino. They use the compliance thing a lot by saying you are not in compliance, but my take is that , when it snows I am in compliance enough to perform the services, so therefore I am in compliance enough for you to pay me.


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## atlanta55

They owe guys around here in area 30,000 to 50,000...just for snow removal this winter.


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## L.R.G

Know the felling........My Friend plows a couple lots for Ferrandino & Son Contractors and is getting the same run around. He has invoices that are 65+ days old and is on a 45 day payout with them and they keep saying Friday! That was 3 weeks ago and NOT 1 CENT PAID! and he has gone to the company that owns the property and they said checks are cashed and cleared so no reason he shouldn't have gotten paid.He said he'd stop plowing and they laughed.But i'm sure that's what they want him to do so they dont have to pay.These Big property management companies are playing games because they have the little guys by the balls!Now my friend has to get his lawyer involved and fight to get his money total B.S They owe him close to 50k and if you guys down in indy do a class action he wants in!


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## rcn971

If some company owed me $50k for anything and wasn't paying, I would be sitting in their lobby waiting to see the owner. I would likely go to jail to collect it.


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## ALC-GregH

I've gotten a handful of calls from them wanting snow removal. I lead them on to believe they might have another, then drop the bomb on them and let them that I know exactly how they operate and let loose on them. 

I can honestly say that I would never partake in working for a national EVER, so there's a good chance I'll never get stiffed for 50K. I hope you guys get your money but I truly think at best you'll break even, IF you're lucky.


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## Flawless440

At this point i would ride it out... They should pay, it will be awhile..

I did a year with them, 5 years ago.. low, slow, pay.. They still call and i laugh at them..


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## Brian Young

rcn971;1767238 said:


> If some company owed me $50k for anything and wasn't paying, I would be sitting in their lobby waiting to see the owner. I would likely go to jail to collect it.


YEP! Theres so many new ones too. We were called by 2 new ones this season for Bob Evans and a Sheetz. Gave them prices and they were good prices but never heard from them, maybe a blessing in disguise.


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## xjoedirt55x

Ferrindino is a joke. I will say that who I am working for is owed a decent chunk of money from them. I was on a lot and actually had one of their regional dorks try to come talk to me and gripe about another lot not being done yet while it was still snowing.... They are clueless.

If they owed me personally, I would probably make a trip to their office and make bad decisions and probably make them eat rock salt until they wrote out a check for past due balances, my trip out there and a nice steak dinner.

Sucks, but they thrive on the small guy just trying to expand their company because it is easy work to pick up.


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## ALC-GregH

xjoedirt55x;1767505 said:


> Ferrindino is a joke. I will say that who I am working for is owed a decent chunk of money from them. I was on a lot and actually had one of their regional dorks try to come talk to me and gripe about another lot not being done yet while it was still snowing.... They are clueless.
> 
> If they owed me personally, I would probably make a trip to their office and make bad decisions and probably make them eat rock salt until they wrote out a check for past due balances, my trip out there and a nice steak dinner.
> 
> Sucks, but they thrive on the small guy just trying to expand their company *because it is easy work to pick up.*


No, they make it SOUND like it's easy work until you actually read all the crap in the contract they want signed. They don't thrive on the small guy like you'd think. The small guy can't foot the bill for all the salt and additional labor to do all the work.


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## Antlerart06

ALC-GregH;1767606 said:


> No, they make it SOUND like it's easy work until you actually read all the crap in the contract they want signed. They don't thrive on the small guy like you'd think. The small guy can't foot the bill for all the salt and additional labor to do all the work.


But they do target the small guys Since they have no clue what they are getting there self in to
The Walgreen here they have shows That the guy has no clue I haven't talk to the guy that took it over. He is my insurance agent Soon wont be my agent since he been bidding on my accounts


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## superdog1

ALC-GregH;1767381 said:


> I can honestly say that I would never partake in working for a national EVER, so there's a good chance I'll never get stiffed for 50K. I hope you guys get your money but I truly think at best you'll break even, IF you're lucky.


I have worked for Brickman for the last 3 years. I had one issue with payment and that was a paperwork issue. As soon as it was resolved, I got a check. Not all Nationals are the same.



Antlerart06;1767801 said:


> The Walgreen here they have shows That the guy has no clue I haven't talk to the guy that took it over. He is my insurance agent Soon wont be my agent since he been bidding on my accounts


Wow!!!!! My guess is that your agent knows where you are working by the certificates of insurance he is issuing for you. I didn't see what state you are from, but I know that in PA, this would be a MAJOR breach of confidence. As an agent, we are not allowed to share or use any personal or inside information in any way. Also, with the HIPPA laws, this could also add to the problem. I do know that if the Ins CO's I worked for caught me doing this, I would be FIRED!


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## White Gardens

Brian Young;1767399 said:


> YEP! Theres so many new ones too. We were called by 2 new ones this season for Bob Evans and a Sheetz. Gave them prices and they were good prices but never heard from them, maybe a blessing in disguise.


Ya, very good call, very good call. And I wouldn't say it's the nationals fault in this situation.......

..


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## snowcrazy

superdog1;1767833 said:


> I have worked for Brickman for the last 3 years. I had one issue with payment and that was a paperwork issue. As soon as it was resolved, I got a check. Not all Nationals are the same.:


Glad you have luck with them because I sure as hell aint!!! I started for them back in December. they owe me Over 9K and I haven't seen a damn penny yet. Been up there asses and nothing. It took them damn near two months to get me a freaking contract, then it was wrong so had to wait even longer. How often do you get paid??? Every time I ask someone different I get a different answer when I call them. Sick of it. Gotta ride this year out and hope to get paid but never again.

They originally said I would get checks cut on 15th and 30th of every month. They just keep pushing it back and back and back. So your just lucky...... They suck to. typical, to many idiots involved and somewhere along the lines the ball gets dropped.


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## superdog1

snowcrazy;1767919 said:


> How often do you get paid??? Every time I ask someone different I get a different answer when I call them. Sick of it. Gotta ride this year out and hope to get paid but never again.


I get a check every month around the 20th or so? Once in a great while, it would show up on the 23rd, but I always got it. Maybe you have a compliance issue? Call the rep. you work with and ask them to check it for you? Also, there is a regional manager for every area. Find out who that is and call them.


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## snowcrazy

superdog1;1768004 said:


> I get a check every month around the 20th or so? Once in a great while, it would show up on the 23rd, but I always got it. Maybe you have a compliance issue? Call the rep. you work with and ask them to check it for you? Also, there is a regional manager for every area. Find out who that is and call them.


Been there done that..... They say I have no compliance issues. Insurance looks good contract signed, im just spinning my wheels with these idiots. Never again.......... I have been on the phone multiple times with the regional manager. Always say we will call ya back. Never happens..... Im not a big shot so the money owed to me would be sickening to not receive.


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## maelawncare

snowcrazy;1768016 said:


> Been there done that..... They say I have no compliance issues. Insurance looks good contract signed, im just spinning my wheels with these idiots. Never again.......... I have been on the phone multiple times with the regional manager. Always say we will call ya back. Never happens..... Im not a big shot so the money owed to me would be sickening to not receive.


Keep going over their heads. And email is always best as there is records. When brickman slowed payment on me I went through 3 overheads till I got it sorted out.


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## Antlerart06

maelawncare;1768175 said:


> Keep going over their heads. And email is always best as there is records. When brickman slowed payment on me I went through 3 overheads till I got it sorted out.


O brickman is crazy to In one year I had 4 different people Each time I ask where the last one is they said he or she was fired. They go thru a lot district managers. The last one knows more then any of them I had I hope he doesn't get fired.


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## snowcrazy

maelawncare;1768175 said:


> Keep going over their heads. And email is always best as there is records. When brickman slowed payment on me I went through 3 overheads till I got it sorted out.


I have a trail of e-mails a mile long. Id say if I had to go to court there would be no way they could screw me. Ive went over there heads so far that I actually had a member of management waaaaaaay up the chain of the company that owns these buildings send an e-mail and HOLLY **** did it piss brickman off!!!!!! I told them it wouldn't have went that way if they had just gotten me paid. That still didn't work obviously...... Its a **** ton of money for a little guy like myself. I keep bugging them but seems to go no where:realmad:.........

Worse part about all this is that the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing there...... they wanted stupid high triggers on these places and I told them no way 2" trigger anything less salt. They didn't want to do it but finally agreed. After finally getting my contract and they had the trigger they were trying to push on me in the beginning. I called them and told them it was screwed up and they said I shouldn't have plowed anything yet this year because we had never had snow totals over the amounts they wanted me to go out for. I sent them the cut sheets they sent me with all the agreed information and from there it was a freaking circus trying to get them to get it fixed........... Its been a nightmare. Ill never work for these idiots again. I just pray I get this seasons money.........


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## Antlerart06

snowcrazy;1768264 said:


> I have a trail of e-mails a mile long. Id say if I had to go to court there would be no way they could screw me. Ive went over there heads so far that I actually had a member of management waaaaaaay up the chain of the company that owns these buildings send an e-mail and HOLLY **** did it piss brickman off!!!!!! I told them it wouldn't have went that way if they had just gotten me paid. That still didn't work obviously...... Its a **** ton of money for a little guy like myself. I keep bugging them but seems to go no where:realmad:.........
> 
> Worse part about all this is that the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing there...... they wanted stupid high triggers on these places and I told them no way 2" trigger anything less salt. They didn't want to do it but finally agreed. After finally getting my contract and they had the trigger they were trying to push on me in the beginning. I called them and told them it was screwed up and they said I shouldn't have plowed anything yet this year because we had never had snow totals over the amounts they wanted me to go out for. I sent them the cut sheets they sent me with all the agreed information and from there it was a freaking circus trying to get them to get it fixed........... Its been a nightmare. Ill never work for these idiots again. I just pray I get this seasons money.........


So you plowed under there triggers and you wanting to paid for breaking there rules Did I read that right If that's the case then you will be lucky to get paid 
My trigger is 1'' and my contact is Seasonal


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## superdog1

I don't know what to tell you? I never had an issue? I can tell you that if the contract says 4" trigger and you plowed it at 2", you are screwed. I can also tell you that one time I went and did work because I thought I was supposed to. Turns out it was never approved. My mistake. Brickman went out of their way and paid me for it by adding it to the next work order, so I ended up getting paid anyway. I wish you the best and I hope you get your $$.


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## superdog1

One more thing, All of my contracts are seasonal. If you are on a per push type, then I have no clue what to tell you? I have never signed any per push contracts with Brickman (Nor will I ever)


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## maelawncare

snowcrazy;1768264 said:


> I have a trail of e-mails a mile long. Id say if I had to go to court there would be no way they could screw me. Ive went over there heads so far that I actually had a member of management waaaaaaay up the chain of the company that owns these buildings send an e-mail and HOLLY **** did it piss brickman off!!!!!! I told them it wouldn't have went that way if they had just gotten me paid. That still didn't work obviously...... Its a **** ton of money for a little guy like myself. I keep bugging them but seems to go no where:realmad:.........
> 
> Worse part about all this is that the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing there...... they wanted stupid high triggers on these places and I told them no way 2" trigger anything less salt. They didn't want to do it but finally agreed. After finally getting my contract and they had the trigger they were trying to push on me in the beginning. I called them and told them it was screwed up and they said I shouldn't have plowed anything yet this year because we had never had snow totals over the amounts they wanted me to go out for. I sent them the cut sheets they sent me with all the agreed information and from there it was a freaking circus trying to get them to get it fixed........... Its been a nightmare. Ill never work for these idiots again. I just pray I get this seasons money.........


My trigger for Brickman on the lowes we do for them is 2". Last storm we had was 1.8". I called my rep to get approval to plow. Guess what, he approved it in less than 30 mins. Gotta dot you i's and cross your t's.

Had a few times we just salted at 1". Everything melted fine, but we use treated salt so. Having a good rep is key as well!

I have went through a dozen reps on the mowing side in the last 3 years. Its crazy and they never make notes on the dam account!

Back to Ferd & Son. They called as asked us to take on a walgreens. They wanted half the price we used to be getting. And would not budge on the price. I told them to pound sand. They found some other smuck to do it.


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## snowcrazy

Antlerart06;1768332 said:


> So you plowed under there triggers and you wanting to paid for breaking there rules Did I read that right If that's the case then you will be lucky to get paid
> My trigger is 1'' and my contact is Seasonal


No, you mistaken what I mean and I may have confused you. They called me for these sites and they wanted 8" triggers...... I told them Im not interested unless they would do 2" triggers and anything less salt only. They said they couldn't do it. A week later they called me back and said they would do it... They sent me the cut sheets and award of these sites and the cut sheets say right on them 2" triggers and 1/4" and up to 2 is salt only. So I went off that awaiting for my contract.... And I waited and waited and waited, all while racking up a pretty large amount of money owed to me. I finally get the contract and all the triggers say 8"s.... So I called them to tell them that was wrong and they say "nope your wrong".... So I tell the idiot on the phone to wait by the fax machine for the cut sheets to come through that they sent me. He saids he will have to look into it. A month later I finally get my contract. Almost 3 months after the initial agreement. It has all the correct information on it now. Havent received a dime yet and they owe me a lot of money. They say im compliant yada yada..... I call them about every 3rd day to get on them. I don't have time for stupid **** like this. I just hope to get paid what they owe me this year and they can dick someone else around....... I haven't been paid for **** I did in December yet......


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## snowcrazy

superdog1;1768453 said:


> One more thing, All of my contracts are seasonal. If you are on a per push type, then I have no clue what to tell you? I have never signed any per push contracts with Brickman (Nor will I ever)


Id say THIS IS WHY YOUR NOT HAVING PROBLEMS!!!!! Hell that's scheduled payments.

If this tells you anything I have 8 sites with them and I have serviced these sites 11 times so far. That's 88 visits with not a penny in hand yet.

The problem is this. because I didn't have a contract I couldn't use the IVR system or there portal to report service so I have to e-mail them every time I go out. There saying that some of the services haven't been logged into there system from January? I say well no **** its easy for you all to lose e-mails that you haven't logged in from over a month and a half ago so I have been forwarding all these e-mails to them again. Its a good thing I keep good records etc because this is a nightmare as it is let alone if I didn't have pictures etc. I have nothing good to say for that company.....

Oh and on top of that some of my work has been "denied" because according to the stupid ass weather reporting service they use, there was not enough snow on the ground to push. I sent them pictures from these dates with my measuring stick stuck in the snow at there sites with a business card taped to the stick with the site number, date, and the amounts which they could read on my tape measurer......... Anyone who has gone through what I have gone through with them would feel the same as I do trust me.....


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## Antlerart06

snowcrazy;1768579 said:


> No, you mistaken what I mean and I may have confused you. They called me for these sites and they wanted 8" triggers...... I told them Im not interested unless they would do 2" triggers and anything less salt only. They said they couldn't do it. A week later they called me back and said they would do it... They sent me the cut sheets and award of these sites and the cut sheets say right on them 2" triggers and 1/4" and up to 2 is salt only. So I went off that awaiting for my contract.... And I waited and waited and waited, all while racking up a pretty large amount of money owed to me. I finally get the contract and all the triggers say 8"s.... So I called them to tell them that was wrong and they say "nope your wrong".... So I tell the idiot on the phone to wait by the fax machine for the cut sheets to come through that they sent me. He saids he will have to look into it. A month later I finally get my contract. Almost 3 months after the initial agreement. Havent received a dime yet and they owe me a lot of money. They say im compliant yada yada..... I call them about every 3rd day to get on them. I don't have time for stupid **** like this. I just hope to get paid what they owe me this year and they can dick someone else around....... I haven't been paid for **** I did in December yet......


What was the job that would have a 8'' trigger??

So you plowing snow with out a signed contact then???

So this a per inch or like most call a per push contact or a seasonal contact???


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## snowcrazy

Antlerart06;1768592 said:


> What was the job that would have a 8'' trigger??
> 
> So you plowing snow with out a signed contact then???
> 
> So this a per inch or like most call a per push contact or a seasonal contact???


I do not feel comfortable giving out the info of what these locations are as brickman im sure has lurkers that come on here and I don't want them figuring out who I am on here.

Yes the agreement from the a$$hole at brickman was "here are the cut sheets, and the award of work agreement for these sites. We have snow coming in tonight so go ahead and service the sites and e-mail me what all you have done and I will log them in for you manually. We should be getting the actual contract pushed through in a week or so"........... That's how it went down. The first (screwed up contract with 8" triggers) I got in the last week of January, then to get the contract corrected it took several more weeks.......... So no I didn't have an actual contract because they were piddle dicking around. I threatened to quit and they said that I would be waiving my rights to be paid for any prior monies owed (which it does have that statement in my contract which I hadn't signed at that time because I didn't even have it yet). So with that in mind, them owing me tons of money I had to just ride it out and hope for the best.......

I was promised my first payment over a month ago. nothing yet.


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## Mister Plow

snowcrazy;1768619 said:


> I do not feel comfortable giving out the info of what these locations are as brickman im sure has lurkers that come on here and I don't want them figuring out who I am on here.





snowcrazy;1768587 said:


> I sent them pictures from these dates with my measuring stick stuck in the snow at there sites with a business card taped to the stick with the site number, date, and the amounts which they could read on my tape measurer.........


Jeez... Even Birdd could probably figure this one out


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## snowcrazy

Mister Plow;1768624 said:


> Jeez... Even Birdd could probably figure this one out


sweet comment mister plow. regardless I need and deserve paid for the work performed. I said in that post you quoted that I included a site number and that was wrong. No site numbers. Just measurements total, and at top of card "brickman" with a date. This is what they have asked me along with others in my area to do this year while waiting on contract so im not the only one doing this. This info is on the back of a card not front. The contractor doing a lowes for them nearby is doing the same thing and hes being dicked around also. Im definitely not the only one getting the run around from them.... I only know two contractors dealing with them personally me being one of them and neither of us have seen a cent yet but they are per push contracts. that doesn't matter, for us to be waiting on money from dec and January still is ridiculous.


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## 32vld

snowcrazy;1768749 said:


> sweet comment mister plow. regardless I need and deserve paid for the work performed. I said in that post you quoted that I included a site number and that was wrong. No site numbers. Just measurements total, and at top of card "brickman" with a date. This is what they have asked me along with others in my area to do this year while waiting on contract so im not the only one doing this. This info is on the back of a card not front. The contractor doing a lowes for them nearby is doing the same thing and hes being dicked around also. Im definitely not the only one getting the run around from them.... I only know two contractors dealing with them personally me being one of them and neither of us have seen a cent yet but they are per push contracts. that doesn't matter, for us to be waiting on money from dec and January still is ridiculous.


You have been a member here since 11/17/2010. I have been here since 2/4/2011.

In that time I have seen countless threads about people getting screwed over by nationals. Where agreements reached over the phone. Only to have the contract sent back late long after you are deep in the whole to them written back to their ridiculous original offer. The nationals have been cited here countless times where they have pulled the bait and switch.

Yet there you go. Not only subbing out to a national but subbing without the contract in hand.

Then you come over here complaining how the national F'd you.

I have to point out that you got into the bed with the nationals, then bent over for them without a gun to your head. Then you complain that you got F'd.

I am sorry for every contractor that has gotten F'd over by a national. But the reputation of the nationals is not bad enough to keep everyone away.

Why is that?

Even Brickman, for every post where people did ok there is a post how they got hosed by Brickman. And Brickman is at the top of the nationals.

The best national is a 50/50 proposition. That leaves the rest of the nationals appearing to be that the odds will be against a contractor for getting paid.


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## RLM

32vld;1768813 said:


> You have been a member here since 11/17/2010. I have been here since 2/4/2011.
> 
> In that time I have seen countless threads about people getting screwed over by nationals. Where agreements reached over the phone. Only to have the contract sent back late long after you are deep in the whole to them written back to their ridiculous original offer. The nationals have been cited here countless times where they have pulled the bait and switch.
> 
> Yet there you go. Not only subbing out to a national but subbing without the contract in hand.
> 
> Then you come over here complaining how the national F'd you.
> 
> I have to point out that you got into the bed with the nationals, then bent over for them without a gun to your head. Then you complain that you got F'd.
> 
> I am sorry for every contractor that has gotten F'd over by a national. But the reputation of the nationals is not bad enough to keep everyone away.
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> Even Brickman, for every post where people did ok there is a post how they got hosed by Brickman. And Brickman is at the top of the nationals.
> 
> The best national is a 50/50 proposition. That leaves the rest of the nationals appearing to be that the odds will be against a contractor for getting paid.


I have done work for 4 different nationals of the 4, 3 screwed me out of money big time. The 4th we had a 3 year agreement for on a department store for Landscape work seasonal price divided into 12 equal installments, we recieved 18 payments (payments started in November) , however after 1 season the national lost the account, so we got paid for 1.5 years worth payments for 1season worth of work.
Them loosing the account had nothing to do with our site.
Do we still bid stuff for nationals, yes, noth the ones that have screwed me over. Do I bid it for cheap...no. Don't ever do it with out a signed contract. To those that do I hope you get paid. Best of luck


----------



## snowcrazy

32vld;1768813 said:


> You have been a member here since 11/17/2010. I have been here since 2/4/2011.
> 
> In that time I have seen countless threads about people getting screwed over by nationals. Where agreements reached over the phone. Only to have the contract sent back late long after you are deep in the whole to them written back to their ridiculous original offer. The nationals have been cited here countless times where they have pulled the bait and switch.
> 
> Yet there you go. Not only subbing out to a national but subbing without the contract in hand.
> 
> Then you come over here complaining how the national F'd you.
> 
> I have to point out that you got into the bed with the nationals, then bent over for them without a gun to your head. Then you complain that you got F'd.
> 
> I am sorry for every contractor that has gotten F'd over by a national. But the reputation of the nationals is not bad enough to keep everyone away.
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> Even Brickman, for every post where people did ok there is a post how they got hosed by Brickman. And Brickman is at the top of the nationals.
> 
> The best national is a 50/50 proposition. That leaves the rest of the nationals appearing to be that the odds will be against a contractor for getting paid.


Agree with ya. Ive learned my lesson... But that still doesn't give you along with all others the right to think that I deserve to get boned. .... Just because the written contract wasn't in my hand yet. Ive done this several times with restaurants and banks in my area and do fine.

Hell im one of the ones that even said last year I wouldn't work for a national but everyone on here said brickman was different and paid. Welp they were wrong. There just as big of dirt bags as the others........ No sense in beating the dead horse that "I should have known". Ive even said it to my wife that part of this is my own fault for doing something I said I never would. Regardless, that doesn't mean I shouldn't be paid the monies that I rightfully earned............. Trust me on one thing, it wont happen again.


----------



## peteo1

Not trying to thread hijack here but I have a question. I've never worked for a national provider but it's something that we've been considering. My question is how do you end up doing work without a signed contract? Maybe I'm being naive but that just seems like a really bad move. Every one on here preaches about "no service until contract is signed" and that's how we do it. I just don't understand why you or anyone for that matter wouldn't plow Joe Homeowners driveway without a signed contract but guys will do thousands of dollars worth of work without one. Again I'm not bashing or trying to offend just trying to understand the process.


----------



## snowcrazy

peteo1;1769263 said:


> Not trying to thread hijack here but I have a question. I've never worked for a national provider but it's something that we've been considering. My question is how do you end up doing work without a signed contract? Maybe I'm being naive but that just seems like a really bad move. Every one on here preaches about "no service until contract is signed" and that's how we do it. I just don't understand why you or anyone for that matter wouldn't plow Joe Homeowners driveway without a signed contract but guys will do thousands of dollars worth of work without one. Again I'm not bashing or trying to offend just trying to understand the process.


This is how they roped me in man. My fault but here me out. They called me in a panic. "we need someone now" I told them just as you said, I need a contract before we do a thing. This fella saids it takes up to two weeks to get the contract pushed through but that they will send out an award of work agreement along with cut sheets which have the sites listed along with agreed pricing and agreed upon trigger amounts, which is signed off on by a regional manager. I had that stuff in hand before I pushed for them figuring they were on the straight and narrow but as Im learning those cut sheets don't mean a dam thing...... Its not like I went on a phone conversation only. I have paper work but just like brickman told me "those cut sheets are not a contract"..... It was just something to get someone to get out there and start servicing these sites is all they gave a **** about. Same thing they did to the fella I know that is doing the lowes................

See if they had contacted me well before snow started falling this season I would have figured out they were going to be a nightmare to deal with because Id see how long it was taking to get a contract but since they got me right in the middle of snow season everything was rushed. My fault, I learned my lesson. Never again.

Put it to you like this........ The fella offered the work to me and said someone was gonna get the work but who ever was going to get it had to start servicing the sites immediately and getting paid was going to be a non issue since I was going to have the cut sheets signed by a regional. I just didn't figure there was any way they could screw me......... Same thing with the guy from lowes. Just makes a man wonder why the old contractors either got **** canned early in the year or did they quit from this same garbage?


----------



## ddobson

snowcrazy;1769273 said:


> This is how they roped me in man. My fault but here me out. They called me in a panic. "we need someone now" I told them just as you said, I need a contract before we do a thing. This fella saids it takes up to two weeks to get the contract pushed through but that they will send out an award of work agreement along with cut sheets which have the sites listed along with agreed pricing and agreed upon trigger amounts, which is signed off on by a regional manager. I had that stuff in hand before I pushed for them figuring they were on the straight and narrow but as Im learning those cut sheets don't mean a dam thing...... Its not like I went on a phone conversation only. I have paper work but just like brickman told me "those cut sheets are not a contract"..... It was just something to get someone to get out there and start servicing these sites is all they gave a **** about. Same thing they did to the fella I know that is doing the lowes................
> 
> See if they had contacted me well before snow started falling this season I would have figured out they were going to be a nightmare to deal with because Id see how long it was taking to get a contract but since they got me right in the middle of snow season everything was rushed. My fault, I learned my lesson. Never again.
> 
> Put it to you like this........ The fella offered the work to me and said someone was gonna get the work but who ever was going to get it had to start servicing the sites immediately and getting paid was going to be a non issue since I was going to have the cut sheets signed by a regional. I just didn't figure there was any way they could screw me......... Same thing with the guy from lowes. Just makes a man wonder why the old contractors either got **** canned early in the year or did they quit from this same garbage?


They most likely quit for non payment which left the co. in a panic to find a new contractor. rinse and repeat...


----------



## peteo1

Wow that's bs. What ever happened to an honest days pay for an honest days work? I don't know how these people can live with themselves. Doing something like that to a fellow contractor wouldn't sit well with me. I can understand having to argue over money at some point but to outright not pay someone is just wrong


----------



## Luther

Not all nationals are the same. Not by a long shot. Some have good people working for them. As long as you do a good job, meet their reporting requirements and can form a good relationship with the individuals who work there you really shouldn't have major issues.

Others, namely the one thats the topic of discussion here have real integrity issues thanks to the people working behind the scene there.


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## Flawless440

Start posting reviews everywhere, tell brickmen you are doing so, tell them you have filed for a lien on that property.. etc.. etc.. Let them know your father is a attorney and will work for free... I didn't read the amount owed but if ifs under the amount for small claims court its easy and cheap to file that case.. They will pay after case is filed..

I do it all the time, works well


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## snowcrazy

TCLA;1769360 said:


> Not all nationals are the same. Not by a long shot. Some have good people working for them. As long as you do a good job, meet their reporting requirements and can form a good relationship with the individuals who work there you really shouldn't have major issues.
> 
> Others, namely the one thats the topic of discussion here have real integrity issues thanks to the people working behind the scene there.


This may be the issue im having honestly. There has been one person in particular who has tried heart and soul to do the right thing and get me my money but the problem is theres to many ppl involved with getting you paid so if one person drops the ball or you piss one of those pploff your stuck. I admit I probably have pissed some of them off because Ive let them know that its ridiculous that Im still waiting on money from December and January...... They just say it is what it is and there doing what they can. and then nothing is ever done it seems. I honestly get sick and tired of ppl saying its the contractors fault for not getting a contract. Ive gone several years doing business the way I have and never have had a problem 
because Ive dealt with folks that just have integrity and pay there dam bills and don't have screwing the contractor on the mind...........


----------



## snowcrazy

TCLA;1769360 said:


> Not all nationals are the same. Not by a long shot. Some have good people working for them. As long as you do a good job, meet their reporting requirements and can form a good relationship with the individuals who work there you really shouldn't have major issues.
> 
> Others, namely the one thats the topic of discussion here have real integrity issues thanks to the people working behind the scene there.


See now I would tend to agree with you on this for the most part but now that Im having problems I can assure you that this is not always the case. I have performed the work in such a way that the employees at these sites have complimented the hell out of me. Said they have never had someone take that good of care of there sites. I had to report all my services by e-mail since the jack asses took several months to finally get me a contract that was "correct". as for the last part I highlighted, its pretty hard to form a relationship with individuals when as soon as you contact them all they want to say is "e-mail me this, e-mail me that". Ive sent so many e-mails to them reporting work and the only request that I put at the bottom of each e-mail is "can you please send me a confirmation e-mail that you in fact got this e-mail"...... They NEVER send that confirmation. I always have to call a week later and ask if the services I emailed them about were actually logged in or not. Im telling you it has been a freaking nightmare! I just simply think that I got ahold of a group that just doesn't give a flying **** about getting me paid.......


----------



## snowcrazy

Flawless440;1769377 said:


> Start posting reviews everywhere, tell brickmen you are doing so, tell them you have filed for a lien on that property.. etc.. etc.. Let them know your father is a attorney and will work for free... I didn't read the amount owed but if ifs under the amount for small claims court its easy and cheap to file that case.. They will pay after case is filed..
> 
> I do it all the time, works well


Just over 9K bucks.........


----------



## northernsweeper

Welcome to the world of the nationals. I don't think anyone on here is saying you don't deserve to get paid. Of course you do. Like anything else in life, just because you deserve it, doesn;t mean it will happen. Many of us have been there and done that, when it comes to the nationals. I lost everything I owned, thanks to bankruptcy, because of a national and a lawsuit that lasted three years. Attorneys flew into my town from across the country to grill me and take statements. My contract stated plain and simple, that the area in question was not my responsibility. Didn't matter. After three years, when it finally went before a judge, he was astounded that i was a part of it and threw my name out, saying I had no liability in it. He forced the national to pay me the 22,000 they owed me, but by then the bankruptcy trustee got most of it. I'm just saying, **** is going to happen that you have no control over, no matter how good your work is, or how honest you are. You either learn from it and continue, if possible, or you quit and find a nother line of work. That being said, I hope you get your money. Good luck.


----------



## snowcrazy

northernsweeper;1769416 said:


> Welcome to the world of the nationals. I don't think anyone on here is saying you don't deserve to get paid. Of course you do. Like anything else in life, just because you deserve it, doesn;t mean it will happen. Many of us have been there and done that, when it comes to the nationals. I lost everything I owned, thanks to bankruptcy, because of a national and a lawsuit that lasted three years. Attorneys flew into my town from across the country to grill me and take statements. My contract stated plain and simple, that the area in question was not my responsibility. Didn't matter. After three years, when it finally went before a judge, he was astounded that i was a part of it and threw my name out, saying I had no liability in it. He forced the national to pay me the 22,000 they owed me, but by then the bankruptcy trustee got most of it. I'm just saying, **** is going to happen that you have no control over, no matter how good your work is, or how honest you are. You either learn from it and continue, if possible, or you quit and find a nother line of work. That being said, I hope you get your money. Good luck.


I appreciate it, and agree totally....... See that's the thing, I don't need this work. They just made it sound to good to be true is all. See I was booked with my two trucks. Not taking on anymore work because I felt I was getting to the point that I was not going to be able to give my customers timely service.... So when I told brickman that the day they called they said these places had an agreement that the snow needed to be taken care of within 24 hours after the end of the storm. Well hell that was an awesome opportunity for me to make more money!!! So that was another reason I went with it. Most times im there within 8-10 hours after the end of a storm. Mostly what I have is small restaurants, banks, strip malls and a few insurance companies. I have some driveways but they know that I will not be there until all commercial work is done. That's the thing im not going to starve without this work, I just want paid for what ive done and c-ya find someone else to screw around.

Here is the other thing. If this company had told me that I wouldn't get paid for say 45 days, I wouldn't have a problem as long as that was worked into the deal but the rep that I originally made the deal with said they cut checks on the 15th and the 30th so nothing would ever be paid more than 30 days after the work was performed..... Now im waiting on payment for worked done in December and January. Im not saying I think I will get boned out of this money because I do have the member of management at these buildings im servicing on my side. All I have to do is call him again and hes ready to rip some ass but in my contract (that I finally got!) it states I cannot talk to anyone from there....... If I have to do it I will but Im just trying to give them a chance. Id say they have had plenty of a chance though.

No more nationals for this can I promise you that. No more sub work either, Im having issues with that this year to. Its just been a lesson learning year for me is all............ just hope I get paid. Between these guys and another sub that's not paying im right at 19K bucks owed to me that I may not get. Sucks because that money was going to build me a garage


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## ddobson

I hope it works out for you. I feel that folks should work on a retainer for these places. Have them send you some percentage of the seasonal cost upfront, otherwise don't work for them. You should not have to argue, etc. over compensation for your services delivered.


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## powerhouse135

I'm one pissed off plow guy! I've got two amc theater properties i service for Ferrandino and son, I've got signed contracts, scope of work, their work orders, a great relationship with theater mgmt, and whatever else they could possibly want from me. I'm getting the same run around they give everyone else, compliance this, checks are being cut that, bull plop! I should never have to fight like this to be paid for the work I've done. They are into me for just short of 40k and what I hope they realize is the people I owe money to DO NOT screw around! This is the south side of Chicago ya know! I just went to the county courthouse Friday to file two notices of lien on amc properties I have been busting my b#lls to plow and salt. I have begged, borrowed, and (not stolen anything YET!) To keep up on this crazy season we've had! And like someone else said on here... I'm compliant enough to do the work, but not compliant enough to get paid for it! Yea i don't think so! I DID THE WORK, I EARNED THE MONEY NOW PAY ME! No freaking way i would ever work for these jack holes ever again! They must realize that if they keep doing business like this, they won't get anyone to service for them. I'm sooo anti national mgmt company now it's ridiculous! They better pay up soon! If not I'm gonna call them and inform them that... SOME GUYS ARE COMING!


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## ALC-GregH

40K deep without payment? I sure hope you get paid.


----------



## Banksy

If not one person would plow for them or landscape for them, they would go away. Obviously, they cannot service these contracts on their own. There's always that guy who is willing to gamble on it and this is why they are still around. I hope you guys who are owed get paid and never plow for them again.


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## northernsweeper

I think this is going to be a bad year for both Nationals, and the contractors working for them. In the many states where its been a severe winter, the nationals have way underbid properties with seasonal contracts. The only way they are coming out of it with their skin this year, is by boning the contractors. Prepare yourselves.


----------



## snowcrazy

northernsweeper;1769917 said:


> I think this is going to be a bad year for both Nationals, and the contractors working for them. In the many states where its been a severe winter, the nationals have way underbid properties with seasonal contracts. The only way they are coming out of it with their skin this year, is by boning the contractors. Prepare yourselves.


Makes sense........


----------



## 32vld

snowcrazy;1769256 said:


> Agree with ya. Ive learned my lesson... But that still doesn't give you along with all others the right to think that I deserve to get boned. .... Just because the written contract wasn't in my hand yet. Ive done this several times with restaurants and banks in my area and do fine.
> 
> Hell im one of the ones that even said last year I wouldn't work for a national but everyone on here said brickman was different and paid. Welp they were wrong. There just as big of dirt bags as the others........ No sense in beating the dead horse that "I should have known". Ive even said it to my wife that part of this is my own fault for doing something I said I never would. Regardless, that doesn't mean I shouldn't be paid the monies that I rightfully earned............. Trust me on one thing, it wont happen again.


I do not think you should, need, deserved, must, necessary, or be mandatory that you get boned. Or any other contractor gets boned.

I see too many members get bent over here by the nationals. It was great you posted and shared. People have seen how a contractor is not protected without a written agreement.

We learn two ways. By copying what works for others. Then not to do what others have done.


----------



## 32vld

Banksy;1769751 said:


> If not one person would plow for them or landscape for them, they would go away. Obviously, they cannot service these contracts on their own. There's always that guy who is willing to gamble on it and this is why they are still around. I hope you guys who are owed get paid and never plow for them again.


Sad that is the truth. Yet people/contractors keep the parasites alive.


----------



## Masssnowfighter

snowcrazy;1768264 said:


> I have a trail of e-mails a mile long. Id say if I had to go to court there would be no way they could screw me. Ive went over there heads so far that I actually had a member of management waaaaaaay up the chain of the company that owns these buildings send an e-mail and HOLLY **** did it piss brickman off!!!!!! I told them it wouldn't have went that way if they had just gotten me paid. That still didn't work obviously...... Its a **** ton of money for a little guy like myself. I keep bugging them but seems to go no where:realmad:.........
> 
> I had to do the same thing last year. I did $40k of snow removal from the Nemo storm. I patiently waited my 45 days for my payment, after 60 days I started hounding the maintenance company every day, they gave me the run around for another 60 days, then at a 120 days they claimed that the client still hasn't paid them yet. I suspected it was a lie so I went straight to the client to see if it was true. Come to find out the maintenance company was paid in full 1 week after I did the work. And also come to find out the maintenance company charged the client $70k for my $40k worth of work. Needless to say the client now hates the maintenance company and wants to deal directly with me soon as there contract is up. When I told the maintenance company that I know that they got paid I received my check within 2 days.


----------



## Flawless440

Masssnowfighter;1771391 said:


> snowcrazy;1768264 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a trail of e-mails a mile long. Id say if I had to go to court there would be no way they could screw me. Ive went over there heads so far that I actually had a member of management waaaaaaay up the chain of the company that owns these buildings send an e-mail and HOLLY **** did it piss brickman off!!!!!! I told them it wouldn't have went that way if they had just gotten me paid. That still didn't work obviously...... Its a **** ton of money for a little guy like myself. I keep bugging them but seems to go no where:realmad:.........
> 
> I had to do the same thing last year. I did $40k of snow removal from the Nemo storm. I patiently waited my 45 days for my payment, after 60 days I started hounding the maintenance company every day, they gave me the run around for another 60 days, then at a 120 days they claimed that the client still hasn't paid them yet. I suspected it was a lie so I went straight to the client to see if it was true. Come to find out the maintenance company was paid in full 1 week after I did the work. And also come to find out the maintenance company charged the client $70k for my $40k worth of work. Needless to say the client now hates the maintenance company and wants to deal directly with me soon as there contract is up. When I told the maintenance company that I know that they got paid I received my check within 2 days.
> 
> 
> 
> I have done the same thing, it works.....
> 
> Must contacts have a "None Compete Clause" You can still talk to them
Click to expand...


----------



## Masssnowfighter

Flawless.... Where you able to lure the customer away from the maintenance company without any legal ramifications?? I have a no compete contract but the maintenance company screwed me out of a several thousand dollars last year so I was going to use that as a breech of contract and take there account away from them. The client is already on board with it I just have to worry about the blowback from the maintenance company


----------



## Antlerart06

Masssnowfighter;1772110 said:


> Flawless.... Where you able to lure the customer away from the maintenance company without any legal ramifications?? I have a no compete contract but the maintenance company screwed me out of a several thousand dollars last year so I was going to use that as a breech of contract and take there account away from them. The client is already on board with it I just have to worry about the blowback from the maintenance company


I think before you move to that stage you might want send out a letter stating that they breech the contact and certified the letter in the mail

I never been in your boots so letting you know. If I was I would send out a letter first


----------



## noplower

powerhouse135;1769592 said:


> I'm one pissed off plow guy! I've got two amc theater properties i service for Ferrandino and son, I've got signed contracts, scope of work, their work orders, a great relationship with theater mgmt, and whatever else they could possibly want from me. I'm getting the same run around they give everyone else, compliance this, checks are being cut that, bull plop! I should never have to fight like this to be paid for the work I've done. They are into me for just short of 40k and what I hope they realize is the people I owe money to DO NOT screw around! This is the south side of Chicago ya know! I just went to the county courthouse Friday to file two notices of lien on amc properties I have been busting my b#lls to plow and salt. I have begged, borrowed, and (not stolen anything YET!) To keep up on this crazy season we've had! And like someone else said on here... I'm compliant enough to do the work, but not compliant enough to get paid for it! Yea i don't think so! I DID THE WORK, I EARNED THE MONEY NOW PAY ME! No freaking way i would ever work for these jack holes ever again! They must realize that if they keep doing business like this, they won't get anyone to service for them. I'm sooo anti national mgmt company now it's ridiculous! They better pay up soon! If not I'm gonna call them and inform them that... SOME GUYS ARE COMING!


Just got a call to look at two amc's but not in Chicago. he wouldn't tell me why they needed someone but I guess it's obvious now.


----------



## powerhouse135

How funny is this! Dude run away fast and don't look back! These freakin criminals need to be taught a lesson! Hope your not gonna plow there! Ferrandino is pathetic, they will be so far up your a$$ and you will NOT REPEAT... NOT get paid! I just got my walking papers this morning from those dirt bags! I plowed that place like it was my own and they told me how great I am and how wonderful my services were, so I'm like great your happy, the theaters are happy, but why am I sooo unhappy? Let's see, you (explitives) owe me about forty thousand dollars! HAVEN'T SEEN DIME ONE! They are hands down the absolute worst idiots to do legitimate business with, go get yourself a couple other PAYING accounts to make up the difference. Trust me!


----------



## noplower

powerhouse135;1774540 said:


> How funny is this! Dude run away fast and don't look back! These freakin criminals need to be taught a lesson! Hope your not gonna plow there! Ferrandino is pathetic, they will be so far up your a$$ and you will NOT REPEAT... NOT get paid! I just got my walking papers this morning from those dirt bags! I plowed that place like it was my own and they told me how great I am and how wonderful my services were, so I'm like great your happy, the theaters are happy, but why am I sooo unhappy? Let's see, you (explitives) owe me about forty thousand dollars! HAVEN'T SEEN DIME ONE! They are hands down the absolute worst idiots to do legitimate business with, go get yourself a couple other PAYING accounts to make up the difference. Trust me!


Was it in Chicago or Indiana ? I'm glad I decided to do a search before I wasted any time going to survey the lots. the mere fact that they are looking for now is a major red flag. Make a couple of quick posts so you get past ten and I'll pm you my phone number


----------



## noplower

powerhouse135;1774540 said:


> How funny is this! Dude run away fast and don't look back! These freakin criminals need to be taught a lesson! Hope your not gonna plow there! Ferrandino is pathetic, they will be so far up your a$$ and you will NOT REPEAT... NOT get paid! I just got my walking papers this morning from those dirt bags! I plowed that place like it was my own and they told me how great I am and how wonderful my services were, so I'm like great your happy, the theaters are happy, but why am I sooo unhappy? Let's see, you (explitives) owe me about forty thousand dollars! HAVEN'T SEEN DIME ONE! They are hands down the absolute worst idiots to do legitimate business with, go get yourself a couple other PAYING accounts to make up the difference. Trust me!


if we are taking about the same lots , I drive by all them time and they are done perfectly .


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## powerhouse135

noplower;1774584 said:


> Was it in Chicago or Indiana ? I'm glad I decided to do a search before I wasted any time going to survey the lots. the mere fact that they are looking for now is a major red flag. Make a couple of quick posts so you get past ten and I'll pm you my phone number


Yea I'm more of a reader on here than a poster...


----------



## powerhouse135

powerhouse135;1774588 said:


> Yea I'm more of a reader on here than a poster...


Indiana. Same zip as next to my name.


----------



## powerhouse135

powerhouse135;1774590 said:


> Indiana. Same zip as next to my name.


I will start posting more cuz I'm pretty funny!


----------



## powerhouse135

That's a very nice compliment, thank you. But unfortunately the service has suffered as of late due to non payment...


----------



## powerhouse135

What's with the ten posts? Now I'm cool?


----------



## noplower

yep same ones


----------



## noplower

powerhouse135;1774599 said:


> What's with the ten posts? Now I'm cool?


pretty sure you need over ten to get a pm


----------



## powerhouse135

Ok. Pm away then.


----------



## Camden

powerhouse135;1774540 said:


> How funny is this! Dude run away fast and don't look back! These freakin criminals need to be taught a lesson! Hope your not gonna plow there! Ferrandino is pathetic, they will be so far up your a$$ and you will NOT REPEAT... NOT get paid! I just got my walking papers this morning from those dirt bags! I plowed that place like it was my own and they told me how great I am and how wonderful my services were, so I'm like great your happy, the theaters are happy, but why am I sooo unhappy? Let's see, you (explitives) owe me about forty thousand dollars! HAVEN'T SEEN DIME ONE! They are hands down the absolute worst idiots to do legitimate business with, go get yourself a couple other PAYING accounts to make up the difference. Trust me!


Why not use the power of social media? AMC's Facebook page has 4 MILLION "Likes". Start raising he!! on there. Write a post on your local news station's Facebook page. Ferrandino has a Twitter feed. Send their followers a tweet explaining what's happened. Get the word out there that they're deadbeats.


----------



## noplower

powerhouse135;1774607 said:


> Ok. Pm away then.


maybe I was wrong still can't pm. call me


----------



## powerhouse135

Dude i would if i could... I've never even gotten a PM! Let alone a tweet, a hash tag, (whatever that is) or a like. I HATE FACEBOOK! Sooo dumb! But i did call the local news and they are interested in a story...


----------



## noplower

powerhouse135;1774615 said:


> Dude i would if i could... I've never even gotten a PM! Let alone a tweet, a hash tag, (whatever that is) or a like. I HATE FACEBOOK! Sooo dumb! But i did call the local news and they are interested in a story...


did you get my number? I didn't want to keep it up too long


----------



## Camden

powerhouse135;1774615 said:


> Dude i would if i could... I've never even gotten a PM! Let alone a tweet, a hash tag, (whatever that is) or a like. I HATE FACEBOOK! Sooo dumb! But i did call the local news and they are interested in a story...


I hear ya. A lot of people haven't embraced social media and don't realize the impact it can have on their business. It's completely your call on that. Heck, my good friend B&B is so far behind the times that he doesn't even have a flushable toilet yet (inside joke).

But seriously, going off on this site isn't going to help your cause. You're pretty much preaching to the choir. You need to make waves with the people that are impacted by what's happened to you. I hope you get paid quickly.


----------



## noplower

Powerhouse saved me from wasting my time . Thanks dude. It pays to check on things .


----------



## powerhouse135

Agreed. And thanks for the well wishes. I'm having a "shame on you Ferrandino" banner being made as we speak! I'll post a pic of it asap


----------



## Dooleypyne

We do some sites for Ferrandino and they are great.


----------



## powerhouse135

Ferrandino is the worst company ever in the history of companies, never ever work for them, and spread this message of hatred for them at every corner! I hope they get what's coming to them! They are criminals and should be prosecuted the full extent of the law! I also wish for their employees to be pinned under a mountain of weights from the gym they have in their fancy office building, and for them all to choke on the olives in their martinis at their fancy @$$ holiday parties!


----------



## snoworks1

powerhouse135;1790427 said:


> Ferrandino is the worst company ever in the history of companies, never ever work for them, and spread this message of hatred for them at every corner! I hope they get what's coming to them! They are criminals and should be prosecuted the full extent of the law! I also wish for their employees to be pinned under a mountain of weights from the gym they have in their fancy office building, and for them all to choke on the olives in their martinis at their fancy @$$ holiday parties!


Tell us how you really feel!


----------



## nepatsfan

powerhouse135;1790427 said:


> Ferrandino is the worst company ever in the history of companies, never ever work for them, and spread this message of hatred for them at every corner! I hope they get what's coming to them! They are criminals and should be prosecuted the full extent of the law! I also wish for their employees to be pinned under a mountain of weights from the gym they have in their fancy office building, and for them all to choke on the olives in their martinis at their fancy @$$ holiday parties!


I like this guy^^


----------



## fireball

I didn't know about the olives


----------



## snowbrothers101

It's funny. I drive by lots in my town where the plowing is terrible, the crew is working with lousy, outdated equipment and I wonder, how many of those people are posting here complaining about the so-called nationals. My advice, whcih is worth as little as everyone else's on here, is to make your own business decisions and not listen to anonymous posters behinid a screen name. I work for Divisions and Ferrandino, no problems. Some of the others, worst experience of my life. So move on and work it out. 

The Wall Street journal published an article last year stating there are more than 10 million contractors (of all trades and services) in the United States. Recommendations are great and cautionary tales are fine, but at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding and I would rather be the one eating the pudding then hearing about how your pudding tastes from a handful of lactose intolerant vendors.


----------



## snowbrothers101

Go Michigan State!


----------



## powerhouse135

I could care less about anonymity, I'll tell you my name, my number, and my address anytime. And I'm not one to brag, so I don't find it necessary to put a list of the equipment I own for all to see, and btw, i don't have outdated, rusted out, or unusable crap. But more importantly, I'm not a Dutch mafia rich kid jerk, who's daddy bought everything brand spanking new so my friends and neighbors see how "successful" I am. I am just a middle of the road guy who believes in an honest days work for an honest days wage. This plowing business I've built over the last few years (since I've Takin it somewhat seriously) is just a sideline for me, I'm a real estate broker by trade, so being as I'm a very successful real estate investor and a professional in the eyes of the state of Indiana, and I'm no slouch when it comes to contracts and the running of one or two successful small businesses, I think I have a fiduciary responsibility to warn the rest of the "normal" snowplowing community about criminals like Ferrandino. That have tried to screw me over to the tune of $40k. I only post here to help someone else from making the Dane mistake I did, within got Ferrandino!


----------



## powerhouse135

Same mistake I did, working for Ferrandino! Sausage thumbs on the cell phone...


----------



## Antlerart06

snowbrothers101;1792429 said:


> It's funny. I drive by lots in my town where the plowing is terrible, the crew is working with lousy, outdated equipment and I wonder, how many of those people are posting here complaining about the so-called nationals. My advice, whcih is worth as little as everyone else's on here, is to make your own business decisions and not listen to anonymous posters behinid a screen name. I work for Divisions and Ferrandino, no problems. Some of the others, worst experience of my life. So move on and work it out.
> 
> The Wall Street journal published an article last year stating there are more than 10 million contractors (of all trades and services) in the United States. Recommendations are great and cautionary tales are fine, but at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding and I would rather be the one eating the pudding then hearing about how your pudding tastes from a handful of lactose intolerant vendors.


What are you calling out dated how many years is in your mind that be out dated?


----------



## Camden

powerhouse135;1792454 said:


> That have tried to screw me over to the tune of $40k.


Holy smokes! Have you lost hope that you'll ever get paid? I can't even imagine being out that much.


----------



## snowbrothers101

Older than me!


----------



## rubidriver

I went to the store when the billing was 75 days old, store manager gave me their phone number which is different than the one I had. They answer it, because its for the stores, not venders. Short story, when I talked to the store they sent it up thru that channel they finally returned my call after a month of trying. I also put the bug in the store managers ear that a contractors lien was only a couple weeks away. They have about 10 days to cough up $2400.


----------



## rubidriver

From what I'm reading here, maybe we should all show up at the Snow and Ice Management Association show voicing our displeasure. Maybe even get the media to show up? Just saying, if several hundred unhappy snow pushers boycott.....


----------



## buckwheat_la

rubidriver, that is a great idea....I wonder if even got a testimonials booth, and showed the rating (good and bad) for each national.


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## rubidriver

I doubt that any of the snow shows would allow a "protest" booth, but if enough subs got together at the shows and pressed the issue, brought documentation to show around to the right people and press, maybe even local district attorneys. Just thinking out loud here.


----------



## Flawless440

Doesn't matter cause next season all u desperate guys will sign up for their work again and be excited about it. .
Then they wont pay and we will hear about it on the plow site


----------



## Flawless440

Just called me this morning on a Sunday 9:30am about landscape contracts... Laughed at him and hung up...


----------



## Antlerart06

Flawless440;1793317 said:


> Doesn't matter cause next season all u desperate guys will sign up for their work again and be excited about it. .
> Then they wont pay and we will hear about it on the plow site


I had a lawn/snow company ask me what I knew about them

I told them you might not get paid

First company didn't get paid for dec and come end Jan they stop there service

The company asking me the Question Took it over in Feb and March hasn't seen a dime Last time I talk to him he said he wish he would listen 
I told him something was up when the job was price 40% below the market
Back in Oct/Nov I had a chance to bid on this Thanks to Plowsite and the BBB site I made my mind up I wasn't going work for them

They did call me again in Feb asking me to service I told I would do it but They was going have to prepay or give me a credit card number
They don't pay that way I said I cant help you


----------



## nepatsfan

The other problem with the nationals is that SIMA is in bed with them. They will probably try to sweep it under the rug.


----------



## fireball

You are completely unrealistic if you think any organization will stand up to a company that doesn't pay its bills. And you want said organization to do something but you won't join it anyway. Bottom line, tell everyone your experience truefuly. watch next year, when someone chooses to ignore what has been written and laugh. In the long run, there has never been a successful national company in snow removal business, and Fernandio and Merit will wither on the vine too.


----------



## tbi

Flawless440;1794711 said:


> Just called me this morning on a Sunday 9:30am about landscape contracts... Laughed at him and hung up...


Their landscape number was as ridiculous as what they offered to plow. $490/ month for a lowes store. I laughed and wished him luck.


----------



## 94gt331

tbi;1799311 said:


> Their landscape number was as ridiculous as what they offered to plow. $490/ month for a lowes store. I laughed and wished him luck.


Fernando called me yesterday to service a local kmart, i did like I allways do, just simply ignore them, I've been proudly not serving nationals for 11 years.


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## Buswell Forest

I hope they call me someday. I will say "absolutely, I will plow that home depot or walgreens for $9.50 an hour! Sign me UP!"

Then when it comes in the mail, I will screw them around as long as I can before I don't sign it.


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## rubidriver

Got my money from Ferrandino and Son today, after 89 days. Included with the check was a flyer promoting their "Early Pay Program". For selected accounts you can get your money faster and it only costs you 5% "Early Pay" transaction fee. What a crock!


----------



## northernsweeper

Buswell Forest;1799551 said:


> I hope they call me someday. I will say "absolutely, I will plow that home depot or walgreens for $9.50 an hour! Sign me UP!"
> 
> Then when it comes in the mail, I will screw them around as long as I can before I don't sign it.


 I like that one. I may have to try it, just for a laugh.


----------



## Klawn521

Im still waiting for a check from them for removing snow at a Shopko in Austin, MN. After everything I have heard from them and on this site. I will not be working for them again.


----------



## Klawn521

I just wish these property managers/ big wigs wound come to this site and read all the bad things about ferrandino and sons. It would be a lot better for us small guys.


----------



## Herm Witte

nepatsfan;1794856 said:


> The other problem with the nationals is that SIMA is in bed with them. They will probably try to sweep it under the rug.


I have been a member of SIMA for a number of years. A positive expieriece. Get involved and work towards betterment of what is likely to continue. Most if not all of SIMA's direction comes from their membership.


----------



## nepatsfan

Herm Witte;1799729 said:


> I have been a member of SIMA for a number of years. A positive expieriece. Get involved and work towards betterment of what is likely to continue. Most if not all of SIMA's direction comes from their membership.


I used to be a member.....not for me. Not saying there wasn't any useful info but there is more on here.


----------



## Defcon 5

nepatsfan;1800180 said:


> I used to be a member.....not for me. Not saying there wasn't any useful info but there is more on here.


I beg to differ.......SIMA and ASCA are striving to make this industry more Professional....One way we get pricing up is through education...Too many contractors out there that don't have a clue on costs involved in servicing customers....


----------



## RLM

nepatsfan;1800180 said:


> I used to be a member.....not for me. Not saying there wasn't any useful info but there is more on here.


Same here. I have been a member off & on since 1999. I am/was a CSP they changed (doubled) the amount of education credits required which basiclly ment you had to go to every Symposium which financially for the size of my company wasn't possible. So long & short I'm no longer a member or an "listed" CSP, I bought the study material, paid to take the test, studied for & passed the tests. They changed the rules so I'm no longer an "official" CSP. For whatever it was worth, no one in my market to my knowledge knows what it is....unless I've educated them about it.
Combine that with the fact we have another contractor advertising hes a member in my market... he isn't, i made them aware of it... two years later their logo is still on his website. 
I did meet some great people through SIMA, the networking is great, trade shows are great, but looking at the last & upcoming symposium's classes & the big picture right now it's not a fit for me at this time.


----------



## peteo1

I thought about going to the seminar in Columbus this year but then I noticed it starts on a Tues or Wed and runs through Saturday. No way I can take a week off and go discuss snow in the middle of spring.


----------



## Buswell Forest

RLM;1800250 said:


> Same here. I have been a member off & on since 1999. I am/was a CSP they changed (doubled) the amount of education credits required which basiclly ment you had to go to every Symposium which financially for the size of my company wasn't possible. So long & short I'm no longer a member or an "listed" CSP, I bought the study material, paid to take the test, studied for & passed the tests. They changed the rules so I'm no longer an "official" CSP. For whatever it was worth, no one in my market to my knowledge knows what it is....unless I've educated them about it.
> Combine that with the fact we have another contractor advertising hes a member in my market... he isn't, i made them aware of it... two years later their logo is still on his website.
> I did meet some great people through SIMA, the networking is great, trade shows are great, but looking at the last & upcoming symposium's classes & the big picture right now it's not a fit for me at this time.


Sounds like a scam to me. Here, give us money, and we will certify you! You get a gold star and a free tee shirt too, except we charge you for the tee shirt too.
Can't plow snow without being certified by US! Not the right way, anyways.

No thanks.


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## Herm Witte

Buswell Forest;1800613 said:


> Sounds like a scam to me. Here, give us money, and we will certify you! You get a gold star and a free tee shirt too, except we charge you for the tee shirt too.
> Can't plow snow without being certified by US! Not the right way, anyways.
> 
> No thanks.


A lot of negativity by someone that has not been a member (I suspect). I am not a CSP, but do get a lot out of the organization. Oh yes, and they do listen. My firm is a member of several trade organizations and I think SIMA a fair value. All in the eye of the beholder I guess.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss

Antlerart06;1751312 said:


> Well they have a bad rap on not paying
> 
> I pass on one bid this year Walgreens Well another company took it on Plowed it in Dec and Jan and they never got a payment for Dec So they stop plowing. In Feb different company started plowing it now. He was told about not getting paid from other company. So we ill see if he gets paid


thats about the jist of it, i'll keep you informed if we ever get paid everything, they're so far past due its not even funny.


----------



## olsonbro

skorum03;1751572 said:


> I was always under the impression that these larger companies get paid say on Dec 30 by walgreens for december services, then get paid on january 30 for january services, then pay you by end of february but wait to pay you because they collect a little interest on the money large amounts of money that sits in their accounts for a few months at a time. Think about it from a national's perspective, all that interest probably adds up.


They call that the "float" big money for big companies!


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss

atlanta55;1766936 said:


> I have been told that they sit on the money they collect and they earn interest on it and they hold the contractors off until they absolutely have to pay. Word in Indy is getting around quick, they are going through contractors really fast. I have received a few checks but nothing close to the amount still owed. Some contractors around here are talking about a class action lawsuit, and some are talking about putting liens on the buildings which will force legal expense for Ferrandino. They use the compliance thing a lot by saying you are not in compliance, but my take is that , when it snows I am in compliance enough to perform the services, so therefore I am in compliance enough for you to pay me.


Yeah they surely work the compliance gimick... youre in full compliance to start the contract, do the work, then when first check will be supposedly cut in january or february... oh you arn't in compliance... when you are, lets say, you have a cert issue, your agent faxes/emails them the same or next day, your check should be mailed out, at the latest, that same week. NO, now it takes "time" to get back into compliance, about 10-14 business days until their compliance department allows you on the "cut a check list" and then add possibly another week... they'll lose every sub contractor quickly.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss

atlanta55;1766940 said:


> They owe guys around here in area 30,000 to 50,000...just for snow removal this winter.


hah, thats nothin! some companies, i know two just in NJ and PA that they owe that much to, but put an extra zero at the end... sad,, all the work is completed and nada.


----------



## noplower

powerhouse135;1792454 said:


> I could care less about anonymity, I'll tell you my name, my number, and my address anytime. And I'm not one to brag, so I don't find it necessary to put a list of the equipment I own for all to see, and btw, i don't have outdated, rusted out, or unusable crap. But more importantly, I'm not a Dutch mafia rich kid jerk, who's daddy bought everything brand spanking new so my friends and neighbors see how "successful" I am. I am just a middle of the road guy who believes in an honest days work for an honest days wage. This plowing business I've built over the last few years (since I've Takin it somewhat seriously) is just a sideline for me, I'm a real estate broker by trade, so being as I'm a very successful real estate investor and a professional in the eyes of the state of Indiana, and I'm no slouch when it comes to contracts and the running of one or two successful small businesses, I think I have a fiduciary responsibility to warn the rest of the "normal" snowplowing community about criminals like Ferrandino. That have tried to screw me over to the tune of $40k. I only post here to help someone else from making the Dane mistake I did, within got Ferrandino!


Hey man you saved me from dealing with them and for that I'm greatful.


----------



## Ramairfreak98ss

noplower;1808679 said:


> Hey man you saved me from dealing with them and for that I'm greatful.


Be thankful, you could have gotten into a position where you were out months of labor/supplies, servicing their properties, threatening to cancel the contract for their breach of non payment etc..

You know what they told us.. honest to god or whoever you guys pray to....
We don't have to pay you in 30 day terms "as stated in the contract", its actually 30 day terms plus or minus 14 days processing time after we start to review the invoice.

And when we demanded that since we received no payments for November 27th 2013 work, and its now February 18th 2014... how are they doing their math.. they said that they technically have up to ONE YEAR to review an invoice, could not find that in the contract though.

So they claim basically, an unlimited number of days.

Not only that, but our Auto policy renews each year on February 1st.

You guessed it, their cert for F&S is only good for that policy until January 2014. They didn't notify us until after two weeks of banging down their phone lines about why no payment was issued and why they're not being held...

they tell us they need the new cert, same day our agent gets them the updated cert for the auto policy with them as additional insured.

Another week goes by, no check still, "they supposedly cut checks weekly".

A few more days and finally an answer, sorry, it takes up to 14 days to process your new certificate and become compliant again.

We received payments for December 2013 and january 2014 work in July of this year still, 6+ months later, including a bunch of invoices they've shorted the amounts due on.

say you invoice them $2,000 for a site for two weeks in january 2014.
You arn't paid until June 2014 for it. You receive a check that has an amount crediting that invoice number, but only say $1,524.00

Why is the whole invoice not paid, what services IN that specific invoice are paid and not paid since the entire invoice amount wasn't paid?

Another month goes by, now its July, you're sent an "adjustment sheet" showing specific services denied payment from "January" for that invoice. now there is a dispute.

This isn't the first year doing these sites, we did them last year for another company, and had no issues with plowing or salting services. This year, months after the contract is complete, they claim we salted many sites more than 2x in a 24 hour period.

The contract does state it only allows for two de-ice services per 24hr span, not that it limits salting while plowing.

last year, and the same in NJ goes for just about any commercial site, unless its raining or too warm when you're done plowing which is rare, from a liability standpoint, you NEVER EVER leave a site you just scraped down without salting.

F&S worded their pricing scheme so they did not have a "full service"

so each IVR, was a salt and a plow together.

many months later, they fail to pay for multiple saltings for multiple sites adding up to big time $$$$.

One day, one site was plowed 4x, at a 2" push rate, we actually only plowed every 2-4", not ever 2" where we could have billed more on our end. billed a pre salt before the snow, 4 during the storm, which still wasn't enough because of how cold it was, one that night and one the next morning, technically 6 fell within 24hrs of each other and they denied 4 @ the rate of $220 EACH.

The denial for payment is 6+ months after the fact.

Many reps who worked there in December, no longer do, and when the season is done, and you're hashing out the end of your contract payments etc, they leave and transfer you over to another account senior rep who handles disputes and drags out payments for several more months.

Scumbags.


----------



## Jack_Frost

we have made it are rule if any national provider calls and needs service ,, wel will not do it! with out a C Card , up front and we run it before we go do the work ! we bid very high for being the "go to guy" they cry about it but always call back ,,,, you all should do the same never ever take the work "check is in the mail" we treat em all as if they have bed credit ,,,,,,


----------



## Citytow

Ramairfreak98ss;1826424 said:


> Be thankful, you could have gotten into a position where you were out months of labor/supplies, servicing their properties, threatening to cancel the contract for their breach of non payment etc..
> 
> You know what they told us.. honest to god or whoever you guys pray to....
> We don't have to pay you in 30 day terms "as stated in the contract", its actually 30 day terms plus or minus 14 days processing time after we start to review the invoice.
> 
> And when we demanded that since we received no payments for November 27th 2013 work, and its now February 18th 2014... how are they doing their math.. they said that they technically have up to ONE YEAR to review an invoice, could not find that in the contract though.
> 
> So they claim basically, an unlimited number of days.
> 
> Not only that, but our Auto policy renews each year on February 1st.
> 
> You guessed it, their cert for F&S is only good for that policy until January 2014. They didn't notify us until after two weeks of banging down their phone lines about why no payment was issued and why they're not being held...
> 
> they tell us they need the new cert, same day our agent gets them the updated cert for the auto policy with them as additional insured.
> 
> Another week goes by, no check still, "they supposedly cut checks weekly".
> 
> A few more days and finally an answer, sorry, it takes up to 14 days to process your new certificate and become compliant again.
> 
> We received payments for December 2013 and january 2014 work in July of this year still, 6+ months later, including a bunch of invoices they've shorted the amounts due on.
> 
> say you invoice them $2,000 for a site for two weeks in january 2014.
> You arn't paid until June 2014 for it. You receive a check that has an amount crediting that invoice number, but only say $1,524.00
> 
> Why is the whole invoice not paid, what services IN that specific invoice are paid and not paid since the entire invoice amount wasn't paid?
> 
> Another month goes by, now its July, you're sent an "adjustment sheet" showing specific services denied payment from "January" for that invoice. now there is a dispute.
> 
> This isn't the first year doing these sites, we did them last year for another company, and had no issues with plowing or salting services. This year, months after the contract is complete, they claim we salted many sites more than 2x in a 24 hour period.
> 
> The contract does state it only allows for two de-ice services per 24hr span, not that it limits salting while plowing.
> 
> last year, and the same in NJ goes for just about any commercial site, unless its raining or too warm when you're done plowing which is rare, from a liability standpoint, you NEVER EVER leave a site you just scraped down without salting.
> 
> F&S worded their pricing scheme so they did not have a "full service"
> 
> so each IVR, was a salt and a plow together.
> 
> many months later, they fail to pay for multiple saltings for multiple sites adding up to big time $$$$.
> 
> One day, one site was plowed 4x, at a 2" push rate, we actually only plowed every 2-4", not ever 2" where we could have billed more on our end. billed a pre salt before the snow, 4 during the storm, which still wasn't enough because of how cold it was, one that night and one the next morning, technically 6 fell within 24hrs of each other and they denied 4 @ the rate of $220 EACH.
> 
> The denial for payment is 6+ months after the fact.
> 
> Many reps who worked there in December, no longer do, and when the season is done, and you're hashing out the end of your contract payments etc, they leave and transfer you over to another account senior rep who handles disputes and drags out payments for several more months.
> 
> Scumbags.


thanks for briefing these guys about big business in the real world . 
excellent points of view and true to the bone . a good close friend is oed over 100k from last dec 13 thru mar 14 . corp knows it would take nearly that much in litigation to see any if nothing . thats bc they can . they're in business to make it and keep it , no matter who gets boned .
good not to mention the boner , that is cause for defamation , another tactic not to pay you .


----------



## Jack_Frost

when it come to being able to sue , I think if enough of us singed on we would have a "class action" case it would be "big big bucks " so I am sure not hard to find a top firm to take the case ,,, as I said before we all stand together call out whats being done and how much abuse is done systematically , it would be pretty easy to prove ,, and once again I feel most the CEO's would be surprised how much abuse to the service / safety provider and would prob side with us if it was to get out to social Medea
__________________


----------



## grandview

Got my first call from them ,I should F with them and tell cash up front before plow hits the ground.


----------



## Jack_Frost

ussmileyflag


grandview;1855472 said:


> Got my first call from them ,I should F with them and tell cash up front before plow hits the ground.


Thumbs Up I would love t be a fly on the wall


----------



## Citytow

frosty , how do you haul mag?


----------



## Jack_Frost

we have a 5000 gal tanker and drive 160 miles round trip bring back and store at shop 25,000 to 30,000 gal then we off load onto plow trucks most are 300 gal with baffle in tank , can mag lot as soon as we are done plowing or pre mag , we have one truck that is 1700 gal was used by the state we bought it super nice for bigger lots or subdivisions


----------



## oarwhat

grandview;1855472 said:


> Got my first call from them ,I should F with them and tell cash up front before plow hits the ground.


They must be moving into Buffalo. They called me yesterday as well. I heard the guy on the answering mach and just picked up the phone and hung up. Wanna bet they try again.


----------



## Citytow

*Ferrandino: Hello , citytow 
Citytow: speaking 
Ferrandino : we havent received your vendor packet ? have you completed it ?
Citytow: i started my fireplace with it last night , could you send me another ?
ferrandino: sure sir , we'll send it right out .
Citytow : great , i just ran out of dunnage :laughing::laughing:
*


----------



## Jack_Frost

ussmileyflagThumbs Up:salute:


----------



## Citytow

Jack_Frost;1856346 said:


> ussmileyflagThumbs Up:salute:


for sure dude them people are relentless.I'm keeping my eye on this 1 rite aid next one of my lots.should be plenty of entertainment there this year.


----------



## Jack_Frost

I was saying a lil bit back that I had lost Target ,,, to a low bidder ,, so I walked ,,,it did not take long to replace the slot for my Loader ,,, well now guess who called yesterday?,,,, and said the sub they had could not meet requirements ,, And would like to work it out , with me =),,, I will be talking with the nsp today , its not fernando or usm , I kinda like that it is a smaller nsp , Not sure how it will go ,, as I will be taking into account, ALL the thing "we" Snowsite members have been talking about ,,,hopefully this will be a chance to move forward and start to deal with nsp's who will be willing do biz fair ,, if not at least I know I am still willing to walk ,,, we have to be willing to walk away ... its the only way it will get better for all of us !,,, wish me luck


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Jack_Frost;1856480 said:


> I was saying a lil bit back that I had lost Target ,,, to a low bidder ,, so I walked ,,,it did not take long to replace the slot for my Loader ,,, well now guess who called yesterday?,,,, and said the sub they had could not meet requirements ,, And would like to work it out , with me =),,, I will be talking with the nsp today , its not fernando or usm , I kinda like that it is a smaller nsp , Not sure how it will go ,, as I will be taking into account, ALL the thing "we" Snowsite members have been talking about ,,,hopefully this will be a chance to move forward and start to deal with nsp's who will be willing do biz fair ,, if not at least I know I am still willing to walk ,,, we have to be willing to walk away ... its the only way it will get better for all of us !,,, wish me luck


I've never felt management companies CANT be in the middle of the contractor and the client... just that 90% of them these days, which feels like almost all, are out to cut each others throats and lowball... they still make their 20% + cut by shorting the contractor though that did all the work... next year they call the next guy until the gig is up and they run out of guys to screw over.


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## IDOCTORTREES

Jack_Frost;1856480 said:


> I was saying a lil bit back that I had lost Target ,,, to a low bidder ,, so I walked ,,,it did not take long to replace the slot for my Loader ,,, well now guess who called yesterday?,,,, and said the sub they had could not meet requirements ,, And would like to work it out , with me =),,, I will be talking with the nsp today , its not fernando or usm , I kinda like that it is a smaller nsp , Not sure how it will go ,, as I will be taking into account, ALL the thing "we" Snowsite members have been talking about ,,,hopefully this will be a chance to move forward and start to deal with nsp's who will be willing do biz fair ,, if not at least I know I am still willing to walk ,,, we have to be willing to walk away ... its the only way it will get better for all of us !,,, wish me luck


Good luck with ,,, PC Maintenance


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## Jack_Frost

:salute:Thanks, I think it will go well ,,we got a few yr contract, fair to both parties ,, I have been working with PC on outer accounts for a few yrs now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and have not had any prob ,,, paid on time , and they have done what was promised ,I think things will go well ,


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## Jack_Frost

I started a page under the NETWORKING , on home page please look it up tell your friends lets try to get something going positive , for us having to deal with abuse of contracts / and payentsussmileyflag


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## oarwhat

oarwhat;1856016 said:


> They must be moving into Buffalo. They called me yesterday as well. I heard the guy on the answering mach and just picked up the phone and hung up. Wanna bet they try again.


Well they called again. I knew they would. This time is was a different person.


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## Citytow

ferrandino hoses contractors from coast to coast


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## Pa Teeny

I had worked with a CVS middleman for a few years 3-4 the worst experience ever not being paid until June. They kept asking me to pick up and bid other stores 40-50 miles away and I was like you do not pay in a timely manner forget it. Also I had to like 10 million coverage it cost me $5,000 up front. Their rates were high but was not worth it to me..I can make more per hour doing driveways and smaller businesses.

Those Middle man companies sux....stay away. It was great when CVS paid it direct,,,


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## Antlerart06

They called today, I should said no again but I wanted to see there price again
This lot is 1.12 acres with 571'x5' walks They want to pay 125 per visit to clean. Then with de-icing lot and walks and plowing cleaning walks 195 per visit at a 2'' trigger


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## northernsweeper

Antlerart06;1862444 said:


> They called today, I should said no again but I wanted to see there price again
> This lot is 1.12 acres with 571'x5' walks They want to pay 125 per visit to clean. Then with de-icing lot and walks and plowing cleaning walks 195 per visit at a 2'' trigger


Man, I think they came up on their price. Looks like they're trying to make sure you have a Merry Christmas!!


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## Antlerart06

northernsweeper;1862549 said:


> Man, I think they came up on their price. Looks like they're trying to make sure you have a Merry Christmas!!


I'm not going find out what it feels like not to get paid like most others have found out on here.

I just wanted to see there price offer again

I'm going let it ride till they call me back then I'll tell them no,since its half what should be

I called the company that did it last winter I found out when they told me they was paid in july but that was wrong the check they sent bounce and they finally got there money yesterday.

I ask this company if they was going do it again they said yes I'm thinking you are dumb.


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## straightlinelan

Got the call Friday from good ol' Ferrandino to plow Public Storages in Chicago suburbs. Apparently I have not hounded them enough for my $3500 because I apparently haven't made the "we really screwed over this guy list" list yet. You would think they would have a data base for guys like me that are threatening lawsuits.

MY ADVICE To anyone that gets a call for public storage, targets, or party city to name a few...RUN unless you want to be a fool that wants to part with their money.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

straightlinelan;1864505 said:


> Got the call Friday from good ol' Ferrandino to plow Public Storages in Chicago suburbs. Apparently I have not hounded them enough for my $3500 because I apparently haven't made the "we really screwed over this guy list" list yet. You would think they would have a data base for guys like me that are threatening lawsuits.
> 
> MY ADVICE To anyone that gets a call for public storage, targets, or party city to name a few...RUN unless you want to be a fool that wants to part with their money.


I hope Ferrandino hasn't gotten Public Storage contracts back again, they totally @#^%$# them up last year.... managers putting in multiple requests to them and their district managers even for hauling and removal after excessive back to back storms, they'd give us the green light for ONE site, out of dozens... and the next storm rolls in and our crews have no where to plow snow, in and out they go and just more snow piled up against doors and storage units... District managers said they'd never use Ferrandino again and hopefully that stands true. What a way to shoot one's self in the foot with a good relationship for snow accounts.


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## leigh

Citytow;1860449 said:


> ferrandino hoses contractors from coast to coast


That's a positive! No bias based on location,equal opportunity hoser.


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## rubidriver

Got a call from a new account manager at Ferrandino and Son. They wanted me to do local Sears and KMart stores. After last years pay issues, no way. I did let him email me the info. What a joke. Less than last years pay. I just sent him a LOL.


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## SnoDaddy

They tried to get us to do Cvs lololo lol I read that contract and almost died. Needless to say, I'll never work with them. I get a laugh out of the idiots who do because I know they are desperate.


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## Flawless440

wouldn't be surprised if they are changing their name soon


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## OuttaHand379

*A little help for the new guy.*

I am new to the forums and am looking for a phone number or information for a local rep in Minnesota that works for Ferrandino? I know it seems to be an odd request to introduce myself with but any help would be appreciated.

Brad


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## Longae29

Did you read the above posts brad? They are the worst of the worst.


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## mtnbktrek

Longae29;1905521 said:


> Did you read the above posts brad? They are the worst of the worst.


Sucker born every minute - keeps the nat'ls goin


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## OuttaHand379

Yes, Fortunately I am not in "their" contract with them and caught on very quick. I just need a local contact name and number to start the service process.


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## OuttaHand379

mtnbktrek;1905525 said:


> Sucker born every minute - keeps the nat'ls goin


Thanks for help ^ Thumbs Up , But I charged a reasonable rate much higher then what they were offering for the emergency service they requested, I did not sign their contract, nor am I bound by any of their terms. And the amount is pretty minimal. And I have plenty of documentation to support any actions I may need to do. I asked a simple question of the forum.


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## mtnbktrek

OuttaHand379;1905536 said:


> Thanks for help ^ Thumbs Up , But I charged a reasonable rate much higher then what they were offering for the emergency service they requested, I did not sign their contract, nor am I bound by any of their terms. And the amount is pretty minimal. And I have plenty of documentation to support any actions I may need to do. I asked a simple question of the forum.


Y don't u get the contact info off the guy who called you for the emergency service? Weird? Anyway Gluck w that


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## OuttaHand379

I am dealing directly with ferrandino, they state they don't have one when I speak with the rep I am dealing with out of state, The end customer even says they local number they have for the local rep says it has been disconnected.


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## mtnbktrek

OuttaHand379;1905540 said:


> I am dealing directly with ferrandino, they state they don't have one when I speak with the rep I am dealing with out of state, The end customer even says they local number they have for the local rep says it has been disconnected.


So you are planning on taking a hint when exactly?


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## OuttaHand379

digging is free so never


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## leigh

OuttaHand379;1905517 said:


> I am new to the forums and am looking for a phone number or information for a local rep in Minnesota that works for Ferrandino? I know it seems to be an odd request to introduce myself with but any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Brad


1-800 plow-forfree


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## jerpa

At least they got screwed before they signed the contract right?

Based on your situation I'd be more concerned with starting the legal process than the service process. If it's even enough to be worth it.


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## oarwhat

Man you guys are something on this forum. A guy comes on here looking for info and you give him nothing but grief. He was smart enough not to sign there contract and is just trying to get his money from a one time event. 

Other forums I'm on try to help this one just looks to mock out the next guy. 

Rant over!!


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## Longae29

Not going to get paid without jumping through all of their hoops including insurance and signing their contract....


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## rubidriver

Everyone is "good enough" to do the first plow if you answer the phone. But you have to submit contractor ins to get paid. The second time they call, they already owe you for the first work and you figure that that was easy, you have been promised to be paid, cool. Thats when it gets hairy. When you submit the second, third invoice they insist on a signed contract, and a LOT of other paperwork, and it's never enough. They will not pay you until you meet every requirement in the contract you refuse to sign. PERIOD. END OF STORY. Been there, done that, ain't going back. In our small town they have already run thru 4 contractors last year and 1 this year alone. Last year when I cut them off, they called another contractor I know, he hasn't been paid yet for work in March 2014. I suggest you go to the store. Leave them a card. Give them a price, and when Ferrandino cant move the snow, you get the call and collect credit card info before getting there.


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## Citytow

They finally stopped blowing up our phone . Must have all their dominoes in line for the kill. Good luck to whomever signed up and away their rights to get paid . Modern day slavery.


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## SnowGuy

It is this simple, DO NOT WORK FOR THEM !!! My son's company did and they had nothing but trouble !!!


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## Ramairfreak98ss

oarwhat;1907566 said:


> Man you guys are something on this forum. A guy comes on here looking for info and you give him nothing but grief. He was smart enough not to sign there contract and is just trying to get his money from a one time event.
> 
> Other forums I'm on try to help this one just looks to mock out the next guy.
> Rant over!!


But he did work for them already, without a contract...?? Sorry, they will never pay,

Hell they don't pay ON contract, and unless your services you did for them were thousands of dollars, its not even worth the legal process of going after them.

They hose contractors daily this way.


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## danknight163

I am out $11,000 plus dollars and was told that if I don't go trim, and repair everything they won't pay me for my services. which I'm currently not being paid for anyways. I contacted my attorney which advised me i'm not longer in a contract with this company and not to perform the work. My attorney stated he would put a lein on all 11 locations and this really pissed Farrandino and Sons off...

I'm sure i'll never see this money but I wanted to let other companies know this contractor is one NOT to work for, times are tuff and the economy sucks.. Most of us have familes to support and really look forward to getting paid after a job was performed... Do not fall for there bull sh*t!! They are nothing but scammers....


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## Ramairfreak98ss

Ferrandino is a paper company, they're not contractors, they don't do any work, they have a couple offices and move numbers around, and short change all the guys doing the work purposely


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## sktboy150

Wow Im glad I didn't do any work for them this year. They came to me about doing 2 cvs's and after looking at there contract and what they wanted to pay it was a joke. They came back and said they could pay 10% more.

If you read there contract:

You have to log in each time you are at the property and take pictures.
Submit invoices within 3 days or else they have a reason to not pay.
Payment will be 45 days after invoice. Doesn't say what happens if you don't receive payment.

The whole contract is BS putting all the responsibility on the contractor.

I make so much more doing small lots and driveways, Im happy I didn't do these lots for them!

Stay away guys!


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## burtle

How much does the company pay per hour when they actually do pay?

Sounds like a nightmare.


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## sktboy150

They weren't offering me an hourly rate. It was per 2" during the day and 4-8" at night when they were closed. 

$105 2-4" $145 4-8"
$90 full salting. Including putting down calcium on all side walks.


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## Ramairfreak98ss

sktboy150;1971847 said:


> They weren't offering me an hourly rate. It was per 2" during the day and 4-8" at night when they were closed.
> 
> $105 2-4" $145 4-8"
> $90 full salting. Including putting down calcium on all side walks.


I love the 4-8" at night or worse, i saw their contract this past season that we wouldn't sign, they ONLY had a per push rate, so say $105 per push plus the salting, no salting overnight or 2x daily per 24hr span max, and can't do more than ONE service between 6pm and 7 or 8am! thats 12-14hrs of snow fall for $105 then per site,

It gets better, all sites must be done before they open, so if you have 10, 20, 30 sites, what do your trucks sit around all night while you get 1-2" an hour possibly and then send them all out at 5-6am to start plowing a foot? bonkers..:realmad:


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## On a Call

So...why do people work for these idiots, morons ??

Do they ever see what is being said about them ??


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## leigh

On a Call;1981541 said:


> So...why do people work for these idiots, morons ??
> 
> Do they ever see what is being said about them ??


Why? 1. Because 99% of plow contractors are not on plowsite and never read these horror stories. Those that do read these stories think that it will not happen to them. There are those that work for them and have minimal problems due to pure luck or they follow protocols perfectly and still have luck on their side.
2. Of course they see what's being written about them, seems there might be a few "spys" on here from time to time! They probably all sit around and have a good laugh on their way to bank!
I will not work for nationals mainly because my niche is top notch service at high pricing. I'm not into volume plowing at low to market pricing.I imagine that somehow the majority don't have major problems,I may be dreaming though!


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