# Ram 3500 cummins problems



## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

We own a 2003 Ram 3500 dually with the cummins 5.9 in it. recently it has been getting hard to start. If it sits over night even plugged in, the next morning it's crank crank crank for a while then it finally starts and if it runs all day it acts like it normally does. We replaced the batteries and the fuel filter about a week ago because it already needed it. Does anyone have an idea of what maybe going on with this truck? Help will be appreciated!


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

These guys will know....if you can't find what you want here....

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/forums/3rd-generation-ram-years-2003-up-83/


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## dstifel (Dec 27, 2012)

Probably injectors


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

Dogplow Dodge;1917130 said:


> These guys will know....if you can't find what you want here....
> 
> http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/forums/3rd-generation-ram-years-2003-up-83/


Ok thanks for the quick reply. I will look in to that website when I get a chance.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Does it have glow plugs? 
IS the block heater working?


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

dstifel;1917136 said:


> Probably injectors


That's what we were thinking, but wouldn't it run bad all of the time? The truck runs fine once it starts.


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

dieselss;1917138 said:


> Does it have glow plugs?
> IS the block heater working?


it doesn't have a glow plug but does have A block heater. We didn't have it plugged In on one of the nights it got cold and the fuel lines froze up so we got some diesel 911 and put in the tank and fuel filter and after some cranking it did start because the lines unfroze. The next night we did plug it in and it did start so I think that may eliminate that solution


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## Robinson_Cnst (Jan 4, 2013)

These engines have grid heaters to pre heat the incoming air. Looks like two toaster elements in the intake horn. Those heaters use to 30 amp solenoids. Check your grid heaters. Also check the plug on the block side of the block heater. I had my wire come out before.

Exactly how cold was it when your fuel line froze. I see your in Missouri, I'm in IL and have never had gel or frozen line. Buy quality diesel with no bio. Change that filter and add some anti gel to your tank. Try those things and get back to us.

I have an 05 Cummins and IL weather has never kept her down. As long as your fuel is good, filter is clean and your heaters are working they should always start.


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

Robinson_Cnst;1917170 said:


> These engines have grid heaters to pre heat the incoming air. Looks like two toaster elements in the intake horn. Those heaters use to 30 amp solenoids. Check your grid heaters. Also check the plug on the block side of the block heater. I had my wire come out before.
> 
> Exactly how cold was it when your fuel line froze. I see your in Missouri, I'm in IL and have never had gel or frozen line. Buy quality diesel with no bio. Change that filter and add some anti gel to your tank. Try those things and get back to us.
> 
> I have an 05 Cummins and IL weather has never kept her down. As long as your fuel is good, filter is clean and your heaters are working they should always start.


It was probably around 15-20 degrees that morning and the truck was inside in a warm shop then it was took outside and then the lines froze. We buy our diesel from a new gas station from the town that we live by, and the gauge said it had a little water in it. We will look into that wire, it could have came out when we got new batteries. Could it be possible there could be a leak in a fuel line so it's allowing air to get into the fuel system? We did notice a little fluid on the frame the other day and smelled like diesel, but we think we spilled some diesel 911 on there when we put it in the filter.


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## Robinson_Cnst (Jan 4, 2013)

Do you drain your water separator often? If you get water in your fuel from a station, it's time to buy elsewhere. Usually shell will sell road diesel without bio and with additive.

how did the truck start when it was in the heated shop. Should have fired right up.


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## dstifel (Dec 27, 2012)

When injectors start to go will start hard especially after the truck is really warm from my experience. They run fine once it's started


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

Robinson_Cnst;1917184 said:


> Do you drain your water separator often? If you get water in your fuel from a station, it's time to buy elsewhere. Usually shell will sell road diesel without bio and with additive.
> 
> how did the truck start when it was in the heated shop. Should have fired right up.


We have drained our separator and it still does it. The truck was at the local boss dealer when it started in the shop and it started fine because it was outside when we got there. The mechanic there said it started fine that morning then the lines froze up after it had been outside awhile ( the temperatures were still in the lower 20's ) so we got diesel 911and unfroze the lines then it started. We did see some type of liquid on the truck frame a couple nights ago and thought it was diesel cause it smelled like it. So we thought maybe there is a tiny hole in the fuel system somewhere. Would something like that create a hard starting issue?


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

Well we have done a Little more research and found out that we may have a relief valve in the banjo fitting stuck open for the return line to the gas tank causing a loss in fuel pressure in the engine. After this storm that is supposed to get here tonight, I will play mechanic on The truck and figure it out! Thanks to everyone's help on our issue with our cummins!!


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

Hook up a scan tool and check the rail pressure while cranking. My guess is it'll be less than 5000psi, which is the requirement for the computer to fire the injectors. Get an injector line cap and cap the lines one at a time untill the the truck starts. That's your bad injector. Plugging the truck in warms the components enough to close the tolerances in a marginal injector, but not forever. If it was your prv , plugging the truck in would make no difference.


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

jhenderson9196;1917524 said:


> Hook up a scan tool and check the rail pressure while cranking. My guess is it'll be less than 5000psi, which is the requirement for the computer to fire the injectors. Get an injector line cap and cap the lines one at a time untill the the truck starts. That's your bad injector. Plugging the truck in warms the components enough to close the tolerances in a marginal injector, but not forever. If it was your prv , plugging the truck in would make no difference.


Ok... Will do. We will try and figure out problem and/or solution and I will update the thread when we figure it out.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

Have you ever put a lift pump in it? I run an Air Dog on my 01. I think your 03 may still use a VP44 injection pump, if so they need a good lift pump.


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

maxwellp;1917621 said:


> Have you ever put a lift pump in it? I run an Air Dog on my 01. I think your 03 may still use a VP44 injection pump, if so they need a good lift pump.


It has been converted to be directly in the tank. The dealer installed the lift pump, we didn't do it. It is still working though, because the truck runs fine once it starts. We have tested it and it's filling the fuel filter so it is working. What i was getting at with the fuel line issue is there could be a little pin hole somewhere causing just enough fuel leakage to let air in which would make it lose pressure. But once it starts the hole is small enough to not have that big of a difference. It just makes a difference after it sits for a long enough time.


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

I had a leaking 6th injector line that made it start hard after it would sit for a few days. Would not leak so much as to leak to the ground. Don't feel for injector line leaks if it is running, it can inject the fuel right into your skin.


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

maxwellp;1917670 said:


> I had a leaking 6th injector line that made it start hard after it would sit for a few days. Would not leak so much as to leak to the ground. Don't feel for injector line leaks if it is running, it can inject the fuel right into your skin.


Ok thanks for the info and warning... Always like to play it safe! We will look more into it after the rain/snow mix we are supposed to get tonight.


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

The injectors leak internally not externally. It's a common rail not a vp44.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

"banjo fitting stuck open,,"
fix and think about shimming the plug.
your injectors are not at fault, yet.

until you fix your fuel issues and get the air out of the lines
your going to be a unhappy camper.


then find out where your water is coming from.

and id use a additive like hows as ot removes the water so it can be drained out of the fuel water separator.

powerservice emulsifies the water you dont want to do that.

911 is alcohol, you could have bought the 99% alcohol at wallmart at a fraction of the cost.
alcohol is hard on the injectors and should not be used regularity in a diesel only in a freeze up.


most cold weather issues are from water not diesel or BIO.
but diesel with BIO does adsorb water right out of the air like a sponge.
This was the reason we saw so many fuel issues in MN last winter as even our winter fuel has 5%bio.
I used howes and I dint have any issues last winter with fuel, ps and drain that separator every tank or every other tank until your samples are good..


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

SnoFarmer;1918177 said:


> you could have bought the 99% alcohol at wallmart at a fraction of the cost.


I've never seen that type of alcohol in any store. What brand do you recommend ? Every bottle of alcohol (not the drinking kind) I've ever read says that a good portion of it is water. Last thing you want in any engine is water in the fuel.... although we used to pour it down the carburetors as kids thinking it was a good thing blowing carbon off the tops of the pistons....

Go figure, eh ?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Shawn 99%

It' right next to the 50% and the 70%
the witch hazel & latex gloves in the health Dept.
It's denatured so hold the water

One would only use it like 911 after a freeze up
Water...

But I treat, polish my fuel all winter.
I have never used 911 or alcohol.

Also there was a TSB out on the newer 6.7's for the rear/ by the fuel tank , the fuel heater at the rear filter
was not enabled on some, see dealer


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

There will be no air in the lines. Pusher pump in the tank. If you had a leak it would be evident even while running as the pump maintains 10-15 psi to the injection pump all the time. Leak after the injection pump would be obvious. The engine compartment would be soaked. As I said before, your prv would not be affected by the block heater. Check the rail pressure while cranking a cold engine. Use a rail cap to kill individual injectors until the pressure comes up and the truck starts.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Ty27;1917175 said:



> It was probably around 15-20 degrees that morning and the truck was inside in a warm shop then it was took outside and then the lines froze. We buy our diesel from a new gas station from the town that we live by, and the gauge said it had a little water in it. We will look into that wire, it could have came out when we got new batteries. Could it be possible there could be a leak in a fuel line so it's allowing air to get into the fuel system? We did notice a little fluid on the frame the other day and smelled like diesel, but we think we spilled some diesel 911 on there when we put it in the filter.


At 15-20 degrees yes the water in the fuel could have froze.
Using the block heater or grid heater will not stop this.

"The gauge said it had water in it."
Gauge? Or light? Anyway this is a red flag.
Drain the filter and take the nessary steeps, to get rid of it in the tank.
Drop it and drain it, get fresh fuel.

If fuel comes out of a line while its setting over night AIR must be going in.
Fix the leak get rid of the water.

How many miles on it? 
Running a lot of water threw her will eat up the pump and injectors.
But even the new ones are not as fragile as some will have you believe


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

You don't know for sure there's air in the lines. It has a pusher pump. If there was a leak it would show as soon as the pump made pressure when the key was cycled. It's a self bleeding system to the injection pump. If it had a leak after the pump the engine would be soaked.


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

Beleive we have solved our truck problems. We discovered that if we jumped it off our other truck the starter would spin the engine faster and it would fire right up. Ended up cleaning all of the battery connections replaced the two solenoids next to the passenger battery, cleaned all the grounds in the engine compartment. After doing this it starts as if we had it hooked up to the other truck. We did have new batteries in the truck before doing this but the corrosion was not letting enough amps to the starter to spin the engine fast enough to fire it. Thanks for everyone's help, let it snow!!!


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

Good for you. Hope all stays well. Slow crank means low rail pressure as we discussed previously. That's probably why it would fire after being plugged in. Warm engines crank faster.


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## Ty27 (Dec 14, 2014)

jhenderson9196;1920742 said:


> Good for you. Hope all stays well. Slow crank means low rail pressure as we discussed previously. That's probably why it would fire after being plugged in. Warm engines crank faster.


Which makes sense why it would start right up after being ran and not start overnight. This truck was also our main salt truck, so it made sense why the connectors and wires were all corroded especially since this truck has been spreading salt since 2004. It has been a very good truck for us, which is why we were so surprised by this starting issue.


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