# Suggestion for S185/T590 pusher



## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

A little background... We have an F250 and F350 with 8' Fisher SS Xblades, a backup 8' Fisher HD for pickup, an International 7400 with 10' Everest power angle plow and hitch, Bobcat S185 with 8' Fisher power angle plow w/ custom SS mount and 68" snow bucket, T590 with 74" GP bucket, and IR WL 440 with 1.5 yd GP and 2.1 yd snow bucket, and 10' Fisher MC power angle plow with quick hitch mount. 

So needless to say we have more than enough trucks, equipment, and snow attachments. We used to have the F350 and 7400 on a municipal route, and F250 and T190 on lots, and T190, S185, and WL 440 on snow removal with 7400 hauling. We no longer plow municipal, strictly commercial lots. 

For the last four to five years we have plowed two good size lots that are right beside each other with just the F250 and 350, and last year built the 10' plow for 440 and paired with just one pickup. S185 and T190 staged at other lots for snow removal only. 

So, this year we picked up a third lot. All three are on same 1/4 mile street. Third lot was done with 2 pickups last year by other contractor. This year we plan on trying to do all three with F250, F350, and WL 440.

All three buildings have a fair amount of loading docks. As evidenced by our equipment/attachment list, we have never owned, and never been fond of pushers. However, I tend to try to see Pros and Cons in everything. Recently for the first time, I saw a picture of a Protech pusher being used on an S185, rolled over and being used to back drag loading docks.


SO....

1.) For those of you with experience with using pushers on skidsteers, specifically S185 with 8' Protech pusher, is this a common way you clean out loading docks?

2.) Those of you with S185's/S590's, T190's/T590's. I know you all prefer the biggest possible pusher and you can always take less snow, but do you see an 8' as the ideal size as to not get too big where you can't fit between cars/trucks/trailers and still get the job done? Or would you go to a 9' or even 10'? I am well aware the bigger you go, the more it weighs, the less weight/volume of snow the machine can handle

3.) Bobcat or Protech brand pusher? We have a great 30 year relationship with our Bobcat dealer, and about a 7 year strong relationship with our current truck equipment Fisher/Protech dealer. Price is not an issue, we want the best. Bobcat brand the top front edge looks slanted, which I perceive would leave a snow trail when back-blading as described

4.) Finally which cutting edge to you find best, steel or rubber?

Thank you in advance for your opinions

Jim


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Jim15;1667726 said:


> . *Price is not an issue*, we want the best.
> 
> Jim


If so, look into a 8-13 HLA snowwing. I've never owned one, but would like to. Another option would be a Kage or Snowwolf plow/pusher system.

We run a couple Bobcat pushers, and have been very happy. The floating hitch design is great. Stays in contact with pavement through uneven terrain, and allows the machine to keep all 4's to the ground...resulting in MUCH improved pushing performance from your skid.

If I had A LOT of loading docks to clear with a skid, I'd probably be using a straight blade or big snow bucket.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Have you ever thought about a pull plow for one of the trucks? As far as the size for a S185 I would go 9' steel edge pusher or plow.

What do the loading docks look like? Are they flat...Do they have sides boxing them in...Are they on a decline? How many are we talking at each site?


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Jim15;1667726 said:


> A little background... We have an F250 and F350 with 8' Fisher SS Xblades, a backup 8' Fisher HD for pickup, an International 7400 with 10' Everest power angle plow and hitch, Bobcat S185 with 8' Fisher power angle plow w/ custom SS mount and 68" snow bucket, T590 with 74" GP bucket, and IR WL 440 with 1.5 yd GP and 2.1 yd snow bucket, and 10' Fisher MC power angle plow with quick hitch mount.
> 
> So needless to say we have more than enough trucks, equipment, and snow attachments. We used to have the F350 and 7400 on a municipal route, and F250 and T190 on lots, and T190, S185, and WL 440 on snow removal with 7400 hauling. We no longer plow municipal, strictly commercial lots.
> 
> ...


Say if you thinking on a 8 ft pusher might be ok on lite snow if you get wet it might have problem with traction. That's what Protech told me.
I went with Pro Tech Sno Blade Its 3 in 1 blade Its 7.6 box or 8.11 wing plow or 9.6 windrow plow I have power angle so if I'm in deep snow I can angle the plow and let some snow out if I loose traction.
My skid is same size. Pro Tech rep said My skid could go either way. He said if I get a lot of wet snow is to go with a smaller plow would be better But if I get a lot of powder snow then I could go to the Sno Blade 9' model.
The Sno Blade is a steel trip edge plow and you do have down pressure when you want it.
That's all I can tell you Since I just bought it haven't used it. It looks well built.
Good luck


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

We've been running up to 10ft pushers on S185's & T190's (w/dedicated tires/tracks) with great success, for years. Just sayin.


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## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

That S185 will be fine pushing a 10' pusher. I have a 10.5 Avalanche I run on a 75XT and 435 without any trouble at all.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Those are both larger machines than the S185.


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## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

snocrete;1667769 said:


> If so, look into a 8-13 HLA snowwing. I've never owned one, but would like to. Another option would be a Kage or Snowwolf plow/pusher system.
> 
> We run a couple Bobcat pushers, and have been very happy. The floating hitch design is great. Stays in contact with pavement through uneven terrain, and allows the machine to keep all 4's to the ground...resulting in MUCH improved pushing performance from your skid.
> 
> If I had A LOT of loading docks to clear with a skid, I'd probably be using a straight blade or big snow bucket.


Currently researching snowwing. I've seen all of these mentioned before when I have looked at this forum. I have researched Arctic Sectionals and Kage systems before, and liked the concepts of each. However, for its intended use, I don't believe we need either of those for this machines intended purpose.

So you are saying Bobcat brand pushers have a floating hitch that acts as a trip edge of sorts? Or more on the concept of the Artic sectional pusher?

As listed above, we have an 8 ft. Fisher power angle plow for this machine as well as a 68" snow bucket. We have seen a couple guys with S185's and S205's who do lots use the 100" 2yd Bobcat buckets on their machines. One of them was dumping off of top level of 3 story parking garage and nose dove, destroying the cab off of the railing. Lucky he didn't go over. So that's why we have the 2.1 yd bucket for our 16,000 lb. CWL.

Do you have experience with the Bobcat pushers flipping it over and using the moldboard to backdrag the loading docks?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

We run over 175 sectionals, with a slip hitch, it allows you to steer. Like any other box pusher, if its a single dock door, its hard to get the last 2ft. The sectional backdrags as well as pushes.


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## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

WIPensFan;1667802 said:


> Have you ever thought about a pull plow for one of the trucks? As far as the size for a S185 I would go 9' steel edge pusher or plow.
> 
> What do the loading docks look like? Are they flat...Do they have sides boxing them in...Are they on a decline? How many are we talking at each site?


Pull plow, not really. Seems pretty hack, IMHO. Do you have experience using an S185 with a 9' pusher, or similar sized skid? We already have an 8' plow and 68" snow bucket for machine.

Loading docks vary. One building is mixed use, multiple tenants. One side of building has about 12 loading docks which vary from conventional two bay loading dock, one on end has a giant concrete ramp with parapet walls to get forklift out, a couple others have ramps which are narrower. some have walls beside them, lots of dumpsters and used pallets in them. Lots of storage trailers opposite those loading docks. Front side has parking for office people, those have to get back dragged or like last year windrowed with wheel loader, although better still not ideal. Parking all down other side just windrowed and shoved back, and a couple loading docks and parking spaces down the end that have to get back dragged. Then there is a huge open lot, about 2 acres at least I would say in the back corner, with all kinds of storage trailers and parked machines and trucks. We just rough clear that so they can get out there. Back of building is a narrow 10' rd to get over to loading dock side, windrowed off of cliff into woods.

Second building is a juice company with about 30 delivery trucks, about 20 loading docks all together, wide open all the way down to end, same with dumpster and forklift ramp with concrete walls. Opposite that is about another 20 parking spots for trucks with block heater cords and small crappy block wall that was just built and looks like its disintigrating. All snow has to be pushed to end of lot where forklift ramp is and stacked and occasionally dumped over 10' security perimitter fence. Would be simple but trucks all over the place, most leave between 3am and 6am, and come back between 10am and 2pm. So you have to have employee parking clear by 3am, and truck spots between 6am and 10am. Then there is about 3 or 4 spare trucks that they insist on parking on all 4 corners of lot. Have to ask usually every time to have moved. Except one ******* contract trucker who never goes out when it snows and leaves it on one of the two corners making it miserable. Front has about 40 space employee parking, windrowed away from building and pushed to one end.

New building is huge footprint and 2 stories, real awkward footprint all kinds of corners, parking around building that needs to be backdragged or windrowed out, narrow roads around buildings, probably 15-20 loading docks with dumpsters and pallets. I will try to get pictures.


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## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

Antlerart06;1667809 said:


> Say if you thinking on a 8 ft pusher might be ok on lite snow if you get wet it might have problem with traction. That's what Protech told me.
> I went with Pro Tech Sno Blade Its 3 in 1 blade Its 7.6 box or 8.11 wing plow or 9.6 windrow plow I have power angle so if I'm in deep snow I can angle the plow and let some snow out if I loose traction.
> My skid is same size. Pro Tech rep said My skid could go either way. He said if I get a lot of wet snow is to go with a smaller plow would be better But if I get a lot of powder snow then I could go to the Sno Blade 9' model.
> The Sno Blade is a steel trip edge plow and you do have down pressure when you want it.
> ...


3 in 1 sounds like an awesome concept. Have yet to see it, but will research. Again, I'm thinking a little too much for it's intended purpose. That's why I'm asking for advice on size. I've seen people around here use 6' to 10' plows and pushers, and 60" to 100" snow buckets on S185's. I'm leaning towards 8'


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## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

snocrete;1667858 said:


> We've been running up to 10ft pushers on S185's & T190's (w/dedicated tires/tracks) with great success, for years. Just sayin.


Judging by your username, I would say we each see similar snow consistancy. Ever do any damage to loader arms, extreme pin and bushing wear, blow hoses, or blow cylinders in the middle of the storm using a 10' box full of 4 yards of snocrete?


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Jim15;1668899 said:


> Currently researching snowwing. I've seen all of these mentioned before when I have looked at this forum. I have researched Arctic Sectionals and Kage systems before, and liked the concepts of each. However, for its intended use, I don't believe we need either of those for this machines intended purpose.
> 
> So you are saying Bobcat brand pushers have a floating hitch that acts as a trip edge of sorts?*Of sorts, yes...but also your running a "flexible" edge(rubber or urethane) that provides some give* Or more on the concept of the Artic sectional pusher?
> 
> ...


No. Using it in its normal operating mode works great though. What little is left between the end of the side plates and structure can be caught by sweeping with the end plate across the structure to snag that little bit.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Jim15;1668914 said:


> Judging by your username, I would say we each see similar snow consistancy. Ever do any damage to loader arms, extreme pin and bushing wear, blow hoses, or blow cylinders in the middle of the storm using a 10' box full of 4 yards of snocrete?


Only damage to a skid we've had, in 10yrs of doing snow work, was a broken hinge pin about 2 yrs ago...then last yr we had a joystick damaged.....but both were due to operator error.

And no, my username is not what you think. Although we do get some snows like that...you get more of that than we do I'd say.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Jim15;1668907 said:


> Pull plow, not really. Seems pretty hack, IMHO. Do you have experience using an S185 with a 9' pusher, or similar sized skid? We already have an 8' plow and 68" snow bucket for machine.
> 
> Loading docks vary. One building is mixed use, multiple tenants. One side of building has about 12 loading docks which vary from conventional two bay loading dock, one on end has a giant concrete ramp with parapet walls to get forklift out, a couple others have ramps which are narrower. some have walls beside them, lots of dumpsters and used pallets in them. Lots of storage trailers opposite those loading docks. Front side has parking for office people, those have to get back dragged or like last year windrowed with wheel loader, although better still not ideal. Parking all down other side just windrowed and shoved back, and a couple loading docks and parking spaces down the end that have to get back dragged. Then there is a huge open lot, about 2 acres at least I would say in the back corner, with all kinds of storage trailers and parked machines and trucks. We just rough clear that so they can get out there. Back of building is a narrow 10' rd to get over to loading dock side, windrowed off of cliff into woods.
> 
> ...


I had a S185 for a snow season. I put my 10' Snow Wolf plow on it just to see how it would lift and maneuver around. It was too heavy for it in my opinion. Especially if it had snow stuck to it. Heck my S650 with the 10'er with box sides on won't turn when loaded full and Wolf Paw tires. I suggested a 9' because it would weigh less but still allow you to cover the most ground. In heavy snow you will still struggle with it. An 8' snow bucket would be a safe bet no matter how much snow you had to move( just no trip edge which sucks). I had a 7' snow bucket on mine because it did residential drives and a small tight Condo account.

A pull plow would not be "hack". Those Ebling 16' pull plows can knock out some loading docks provided you have the room to maneuver( check out some of the videos on YouTube). I've use my Daniels 8'er for a series of 5 loading docks all running downhill and it worked great. They would be tough if not impossible to back drag out with a front plow on a truck.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Jim15;1668912 said:


> 3 in 1 sounds like an awesome concept. Have yet to see it, but will research. Again, I'm thinking a little too much for it's intended purpose. That's why I'm asking for advice on size. I've seen people around here use 6' to 10' plows and pushers, and 60" to 100" snow buckets on S185's. I'm leaning towards 8'


I say 8ft would be the neutral size

Here is what mine looks like Its the 7.6' model. It will run most of the time with wings at 45* that size is 8'11'' I paid 2900 ship from Pro Tech factory http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=148483


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## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

Antlerart06;1669167 said:


> I say 8ft would be the neutral size
> 
> Here is what mine looks like Its the 7.6' model. It will run most of the time with wings at 45* that size is 8'11'' I paid 2900 ship from Pro Tech factory http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=148483


Already have an 8' Fisher p/a plow. If we didn't I would consider this concept and the Kage system. However I don't think the side plates are big enough and I wouldn't be able to use it flipped over.

I am considering Protech 8' and 9' pull back pusher, and Bobcat 8` and 9` pushers and orange plows with the wings that turn into box


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## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

Also considering 10` and 12` loader and 10` - 14`backhoe pusher for our Ingersoll Rand WL 440 wheel loader. We have a 1.5 yd GP bucket, forks, and bought another set of forks and used frame to make plow frame for a 10' Fisher Mc, and just bought brand new 1.5yd and 2.1 yd snow buckets for it real cheap at an auction. Real nice, 14,000 lb machine that comes standard with quick coupler and aux hyd so plow is power angle and quick to change. Thinking of having machine with plow, snow bucket, and putting a pusher on old 1.5yd. So it's a quick change pusher but you still have a bucket with you, and it's out front so you can see cutting edge. 

So thoughts on which pusher for the loader. Specs are about 14,000 lbs, 75hp, 1.5 yd machine. Motor could be bigger but it handles a yard and a half of broken concrete and wet sand loading high 10 wheelers with no issues.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Jim15;1669344 said:


> Already have an 8' Fisher p/a plow. If we didn't I would consider this concept and the Kage system. However I don't think the side plates are big enough and I wouldn't be able to use it flipped over.
> 
> I am considering Protech 8' and 9' pull back pusher, and Bobcat 8` and 9` pushers and orange plows with the wings that turn into box


Why would you want flip the plow over for

I apply down pressure to the blade and back drag snow no need flipping a blade over


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## purpleranger519 (Jan 1, 2006)

You can pull a lot more snow if you have a pusher with a pull back blade on it. You don't get the runoff you would with a blade for one.


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## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

Antlerart06;1669364 said:


> Why would you want flip the plow over for
> 
> I apply down pressure to the blade and back drag snow no need flipping a blade over


Because, per contract the lot only shares 1 loader on most storms between that lot and lot beside it. Light snowfalls 0-4" we try to wait till storm is 100% done until we go in and just blast it out. Once you get to heavier storms we need to keep loader going just keeping roads and parking areas done.

In the case of NEMO last year, we had the F350 and WL 440 going full blast just trying not to completely lose the lots. Loading docks had to be left until snow removal, and the roof on that side and back has EXTREME drifting issues.

Posted on Protech forum, I'm thinking of adding Volvo L50, Cat 914/IT 14/924, or Doosan DL 160/200/220 for the 3rd lot with coupler and aux. hyd. Then, putting our 10' Everest highway plow on it which hasn't been used in 2-3 seasons because municipal plowing isn't paying well around here as they are trying to do everything themselves now.

Also still considering the value of going with above loaders, but no coupler or aux. hyd. and using possibly a Savik brand 12' pusher.

Other pieces being considered are a Protech snow broom possibly 10' for WL 440 for real light snow and parking lot sweeping. Good windrow sand with WL 440 then put 2 yard bucket on and use S185 with smooth edge GP bucket with good cutting edge to scrape up and load into WL 440.

Also considering an 8' Protech pull back or Arctic sectional for pulling out loading docks

And finally a 60" Bobcat brand snow blower for S185 or high flow 72" model for T590. Would use on roadway behind one building because of extreme drifting and also possibly blowing service for municipal sidewalks because that's what a few guys around here have been doing.

Any advice on pieces listed above that I am now considering? Again, please state experience with model.


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## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

purpleranger519;1670591 said:


> You can pull a lot more snow if you have a pusher with a pull back blade on it. You don't get the runoff you would with a blade for one.


OK,

FOUND MAGAZINE WITH PUSHER FLIPPED OVER!!

It is, Total Landscape, November 2013 issue, cover story, page 22.

It's a Protech pusher on a Bobcat 773 (S185/S590). At first I thought it was just a normal pusher, but now, after investigating Protech, I believe it is their Pull back pusher. However when I looked at their website and saw their pull back pusher, it looks like it would only be good in 1" storm. I'm going to go investigate that further right now!

HELP!!!


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Jim 15, a guy has for sale a 10' Snow Bully pusher with a great pull back blade on it for skid steers. It's exactly what you are looking for except it's 10' wide. Check it out in the for sale threads.
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=149412


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## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

WIPensFan;1671061 said:


> Jim 15, a guy has for sale a 10' Snow Bully pusher with a great pull back blade on it for skid steers. It's exactly what you are looking for except it's 10' wide. Check it out in the for sale threads.
> http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=149412


Thank you very much for the lead. I am up 22 hours a day right now with work consuming 90% of that, so I didn't have the time to see that. Thanks again. If it were local it would take it today, however it's up to him if he wants to get rid of it and bring it here.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Jim15;1671530 said:


> Thank you very much for the lead. I am up 22 hours a day right now with work consuming 90% of that, so I didn't have the time to see that. Thanks again. If it were local it would take it today, however it's up to him if he wants to get rid of it and bring it here.


No problem, hope you get it.


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## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

Everyone,

Thank you for all of your help, without this site, we would not be experiencing the growth that we are currently experiencing. We will be informed tomorrow, Monday 12/2/13, whether we will go from 2 lots the last few winters, to 3, 4, 5, or more. We do not want to take on too much growth in one winter, but we are preparing for a steady, long-term growth over the next 3 to 10 years. So,

Thank you for the Bobcat pusher recommendations, however, we are know considering using the pieces we have, and adding a used 2-3 yard loader. We already have done 90% of our research and homework. We have a few leads on a few 5 to 6 year old, 200 to 5,000 hour machines, either with or without quick couplers and auxillary hydraulics (tool carriers or regular z-bar linkage). MY thought is to get the loader this year and try to use 2 loaders and 2 pickups to do 3 or 4 lots, and then keep spreading as far as we can next few winters.

I would love to get a 12' or 14' Savik pusher, but I can't justify $10,000 for a pusher right now. Our budget is around $65,000, for the loader, sales tax, and a pusher or plow for it. If we can get the machine and put it to use this winter, then we can set it up the way we want next summer. So,

I have a decent lead on a 12' or 14' Torwell pusher. HAs anyone used these, and what were your thoughts on them? Would you go with a 14' or is it too big unless it is a sectional? thanks again,

Jim


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## Jim15 (Aug 5, 2010)

To all forum members who assisted us, 

Thanks to all of you for your help, especially a certain forum member from New Jersey. This post was the beginning of the avalanche that led us to our next equipment purchases. So... 

We just completed the purchase of a 2007 Komatsu WA 150. Machine has 1,410 hours, cab, heat, air, radio, JRB hydraulic quick coupler, 2 yard JRB bucket, JRD forks, a 12' Polar Pusher, ride control, you name it...it has it. The only thing it needs is a good cleaning, greasing, and possibly a service. Machine was bought and serviced by the same dealer, all maintenance records will be obtained. According to the previous owner, the machine always sat in the heated warehouse. I believe we got a very, fair deal on an excellent machine.

Thanks again to all of you for your help!

I don't have the time to figure out picture posting, but if someone has an email I will send them over to share...

Jim


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