# Brickman



## shooters480

If you are doing work for Brickman, don't let past due invoices go to long as I did.
They will not go back & pay. We finally quit sweeping the past due account. They 
got me for $1800.00 & fired us on five other accounts we were doing for them that
were not behind.


----------



## hickslawns

Thanks for the heads up Shooters. That is a bunch of crap right there. I have a list of National Maintenance companies that have ripped us over the years. It sure isn't right.


----------



## NBI Lawn

Yet another big company screwing subs. People wonder how these companies get so big...that's how.


----------



## hickslawns

NBI Lawn;1583990 said:


> Yet another big company screwing subs. People wonder how these companies get so big...that's how.


Good luck to them. Get into the rural areas or smaller towns and there simply are not many sweeping contractors. Not too many of us to rip off and they run out of contractors quick. Pretty soon we will only do work for them if they pay us a retainer fee up front.


----------



## ygim

Thats [email protected]#$%, i'm sorry to hear that. Can you take them to court?


----------



## hatefulmechanic

shooters480;1478314 said:


> If you are doing work for Brickman, don't let past due invoices go to long as I did.
> They will not go back & pay. We finally quit sweeping the past due account. They
> got me for $1800.00 & fired us on five other accounts we were doing for them that
> were not behind.


How did the invoices get past due?

What was the problem that resulted in them not paying?

What did you do to follow up on the invoicing?

Legitimate questions I would like to know, if you are willing to share, since I do work for several nationals and have never had problem getting payment as long as I followed the terms listed in the contract.


----------



## 4700dan

hickslawns;1590222 said:


> Good luck to them. Get into the rural areas or smaller towns and there simply are not many sweeping contractors. Not too many of us to rip off and they run out of contractors quick. Pretty soon we will only do work for them if they pay us a retainer fee up front.


Hey Hick's this is Dan with Patriot Sweeping do you know anyone wanting to buy a massco sweeper slide in unit mine is for sale we lost our accounts to someone doing them for $45.00 per sweep rediculous :realmad:


----------



## snorider075

V bbbs bss


----------



## hickslawns

4700dan;1592033 said:


> Hey Hick's this is Dan with Patriot Sweeping do you know anyone wanting to buy a massco sweeper slide in unit mine is for sale we lost our accounts to someone doing them for $45.00 per sweep rediculous :realmad:


$45??? Ridiculousness. I don't know anyone off top of my head. Sorry to hear about this. If I were to venture a guess, that person won't be around long. This is my optimism for you. Keep your chin up buddy.


----------



## SnowGuy73

That sucks, sorry to hear that!


----------



## nightowl

Forty five dollars to sweep a wal mart?who would be crazy enough to bid it that low?


----------



## hatefulmechanic

nightowl;1600863 said:


> Forty five dollars to sweep a wal mart?who would be crazy enough to bid it that low?


Where was Wal Mart mentioned?

I have half a dozen accounts on one of my routes that are $45-$65/sweep, they take 20 minutes to do and are done 3 times a week.


----------



## White Gardens

hatefulmechanic;1600866 said:


> Where was Wal Mart mentioned?
> 
> I have half a dozen accounts on one of my routes that are $45-$65/sweep, they take 20 minutes to do and are done 3 times a week.


That's roughly 810.00 a week total. After Expenses, doesn't sound very good to me honestly.

.................


----------



## hatefulmechanic

Well, I took them on to finish hrs up in a route that had some dead time. Next to properties paying 3X but it is good margin since the truck is already there. Plus they take 15 min to sweep ea.


----------



## 4700dan

15 min to sweep then your not blowing off walks an under parked cars then so the is getting what they pay for with you


----------



## hatefulmechanic

No walks no cars in lot 95% of the time. No cans to change either. 

One has aisles rest are three pass strips.


----------



## hatefulmechanic

To clarify, I do not currently do any work for Brickman, although I have been submitting a packet to determine if the local contracts they service are going to be beneficial (readrofitable)

The accounts getting done for that little are fairly small lots, easy to do and require minimal hand labor (VERY rarely a driver gets out of the truck to hand pick, I think it is one or two lots that have cross trash blowing from a fast food place next door). If I was doing solely them, there is no way it would be profitable, but since they are either on the route or next to an account I am servicing already, and I was looking for filler to bring a 6 hr route to a full 8 with not much more additional fuel or labor expenses, I did them for what the property management company threw the low bid for.

Picking those accounts up landed me a few larger accounts the next season, and locked my contracts in for 3 years instead of 1. Another situation that played out fairly well.


----------



## Drakeslayer

hatefulmechanic;1601179 said:


> Well, I took them on to finish hrs up in a route that had some dead time. Next to properties paying 3X but it is good margin since the truck is already there. Plus they take 15 min to sweep ea.


Lowballin', then we all lose money!


----------



## 4700dan

There is no way your properly cleaning a big box store in 15 min.


----------



## hatefulmechanic

After seeing some of the replies, and the conclusion jumping that happens when people fly off the handle with assumptions, I can see why most people do not like to work for a national, or think they are getting ripped off, etc.



Drakeslayer;1601457 said:


> Lowballin', then we all lose money!


Lowballing? No. Can you do basic math? $45 per site that takes 15 minutes of work=$180/hr

I can be fairly certain that no sweeper is billing their services at $180/hr, if they are I would like to know the market and I will put four units on the ground in that area immediately.



4700dan;1601594 said:


> There is no way your properly cleaning a big box store in 15 min.


Where did I ever say it was a big box store? I thought I was pretty clear when I stated



hatefulmechanic;1601191 said:


> No walks no cars in lot 95% of the time. No cans to change either.
> 
> *One has aisles rest are three pass strips.*


Meaning the lots are small, narrow and can be done in three passes usually.


----------



## shooters480

What Brickman did was posted events or one service on their checks. Making it impossiable to post payments correctly. When we could not post payments for services on our invoices, brickman advised to apply payments on the oldest invoices. We went back & forth for six months trying to get older invoices paid that had no payments coming for those amounts. Getting older & older I finally told them no more sweeping on the one big lots with the past dues. They then cut us loose from the four lowes we were also doing but had no payment problems. I got so pissed that I told them we would be returning the debri to the big lots location. If every thing is going well with brickman they are good. But when there is a payment problem forget getting anything but lied to & screwed.


----------



## hatefulmechanic

Not to come across as an ******* or anything, but this appears to be more of an accounting process issue on both ends that could be easily rectified in a timely manner had the right procedures been followed.

I understand your frustration and wanting to get paid for your work, but I find it hard to fathom a clerical issue, whether it be on their part or yours, brewed into a six month long fiasco.

Again, this is just me looking in from the outside with no knowledge of your invoicing methods, accounting procedures, or billing cycles.


----------



## dfd9

Hateful, something that needs to be kept in mind with many of these companies is they use multiple reasons to get out of paying. 

The ones I heard several years ago went like this:

#1 You didn't fax in your sheets within 24 hours as required.

Oh really? See, I kept all my sheets as well as a fax log and it shows right here that I sent in X number of pages on the date in question.

#2 We were changing billing systems, your paperwork must have gotten lost in the changeover. 

I don't care. I filled out the paperwork and sent it in on time: PAY me what you owe me. Not to mention, you're idiots for changing billing systems in Jan\Feb, the busiest, most important season. 

#3 The person in charge of that isn't in the office today. 

I don't care, PAY me. 

#4 The person in charge of that is on vacation. 

Again, I don't care, PAY me. 

This BS went on for 6 months or longer. Mind you, thanks to PS and other green\snow forums, I knew the list of excuses and just about the order they would come in. We ended up calling the company that this company was subbing for and explaining the situation. They were not happy; said "we really don't get involved in this kind of thing, blah, blah, blah" and within a week we had our money. 

Sometimes it has nothing to do with accounting or the service provider. Sometimes it's just the NSP being a-holes. 

Disclaimer: I am not referring to Brickman in this case, just pointing out what many of them do.


----------



## hatefulmechanic

Oh, I know exactly what you are referring to when it comes to run-around from payment companies. My main business is auto repair, and I deal with extended warranty companies all the time, they are notorious for doing this. So are some insurance companies for collision repair claims too.

There is an implied PITA factor dealing with any management company, and one should anticipate or at the very least know what to expect. Document everything you do thoroughly, keep detailed records of your calls, who you spoke with, dates, times, etc, and stay on top of things.

Not taking care of an issue in a timely manner is exactly what most larger companies plan on, it's in their nature. Ever had a very wealthy customer who is a major pain to pay their bill on time? It's basically the same theory, every day they can use someone else's money to operate on and not theirs is another day they save money on financing their dealings.

Bottom line: BE THOROUGH and stay on top of your billing. People do not realize money is made in the office, not in the work performed. You can spend 48hrs out in the field pushing snow, clearing lots, sweeping etc, but if you do not bill it correctly, you are not making money.


----------

