# liability



## anthony1993 (Dec 19, 2010)

This is my second year snowblowing residential properties. My business is cash only and i do not carry insurance. Would you recommend buying insurance, having the owner sign a disclaimer, or not having any protection at all?
Thanks.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

You need a commercial policy on your truck and a Liability Insurance for slip and falls. Sure, you can gamble.....if you like Russian rulette.


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## AG09 (Aug 21, 2010)

Do you claim your cash income on your taxes and do you charge tax on your services?


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

I claim taxes on mine as I'm self employed year round, and I make over the reported limit. You can simply do a DBA if you really wanted to, 

These are two totally different topics. You don't have to have a bussiness to be insured. But, you DO have to be insured. You can potentially loose EVERYTHING if your not. Say you hit Joe Smoe one day with your plow on....your insurance company will not cover you or the other parties claims. They don't have to. In fact, I would be very surprised if you didn't receive a cancellation notice a few days after the incident.


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## anthony1993 (Dec 19, 2010)

RepoMan207;1160718 said:


> I claim taxes on mine as I'm self employed year round, and I make over the reported limit. You can simply do a DBA if you really wanted to,
> 
> These are two totally different topics. You don't have to have a bussiness to be insured. But, you DO have to be insured. You can potentially loose EVERYTHING if your not. Say you hit Joe Smoe one day with your plow on....your insurance company will not cover you or the other parties claims. They don't have to. In fact, I would be very surprised if you didn't receive a cancellation notice a few days after the incident.


We are doing residential properties. No plows are involved, just snowblowers.


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## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

anthony1993;1160832 said:


> We are doing residential properties. No plows are involved, just snowblowers.


what happens if you throw a piece of ice out the chute it hits a car window and that car crashes into another one, you got the money to cover that? what it someonein one of the cars got killed?


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

anthony1993;1160832 said:


> We are doing residential properties. No plows are involved, just snowblowers.


then you need liability insurance......."we"??


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## AG09 (Aug 21, 2010)

clark lawn;1160906 said:


> what happens if you throw a piece of ice out the chute it hits a car window and that car crashes into another one, you got the money to cover that? what it someonein one of the cars got killed?


Clark is absolutely right. You never know what could happen and its always better to be safe than sorry. Last thing you want is to be sued or held personally liable for something you caused. Not to mention if you do not carry any insurance and something happens they can come after you personally for your assets and you can lose everything


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## LB1234 (Oct 17, 2006)

My vote is for you to not have any insurance at all



















I mean come on.......where you seriously leaving that as an option?????????????


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## paponte (Oct 28, 2003)

I'll second vote no insurance. Then you can be cheaper than all the insured guys and get more accounts that way. After you conquer snow removal you should get into lawn maintenance and masonry too. If you just do all cash, you'll never have to pay insurance, licensing fees, workers' comp, or file taxes. Then you can do stuff for cheaper than all the licensed guys too. It's a win win for your company.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

Post # 10 ..... LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ferrisdiesel (Dec 31, 2008)

Im picking up on your sarcasm!!! lol


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## LB1234 (Oct 17, 2006)

Ferrisdiesel;1162091 said:


> Im picking up on your sarcasm!!! lol


good cause we're layin it on pretty thick!


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## MGV (Dec 7, 2009)

I guess thats why I find it hard to compete, $5000 a year for 3 trucks and liability ins. But I don't know how someone can do snow plowing, snow blowing or what ever with no ins.


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## paponte (Oct 28, 2003)

MGV;1162494 said:


> I guess thats why I find it hard to compete, $5000 a year for 3 trucks and liability ins. But I don't know how someone can do snow plowing, snow blowing or what ever with no ins.


Wait till you grow a little more, Then that $5k goes to $10k, then $15k, then over $20k. Then you get to deal with people "wow, your awfully expensive". Lady pay my insurance every month, and make my payroll every week. :salute:


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## LB1234 (Oct 17, 2006)

MGV;1162494 said:


> I guess thats why I find it hard to compete, $5000 a year for 3 trucks and liability ins. But I don't know how someone can do snow plowing, snow blowing or what ever with no ins.


Where do I sign for that deal???? I pay 2k more than that just for my GL insurance...and then about 2000 or so for commercial auto (1 truck!).


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

LB1234;1163646 said:


> Where do I sign for that deal???? I pay 2k more than that just for my GL insurance...and then about 2000 or so for commercial auto (1 truck!).


You guys must crash alot, or have too many claims. I pay $1086 per year on the truck and another $1042 for GL.


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## AG09 (Aug 21, 2010)

LB1234;1163646 said:


> Where do I sign for that deal???? I pay 2k more than that just for my GL insurance...and then about 2000 or so for commercial auto (1 truck!).


Look into Farm Family call Ray Johnson @ 609-584-0100. GL is around 1000 for 2m and comm auto is like 1500 for 1 mil full coverage.


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## MGV (Dec 7, 2009)

LB1234;1163646 said:


> Where do I sign for that deal???? I pay 2k more than that just for my GL insurance...and then about 2000 or so for commercial auto (1 truck!).


I have that thru Farm Family


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## paponte (Oct 28, 2003)

I am with Farm family also, like I said wait till you grow a little. Insurance is typically based off payroll and gross sales. Throw some trucks in the picture, equipment, employees, shop, etc.. I Guarantee your rates will be phenomenal.


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## Mass-hole (Dec 7, 2009)

anthony1993;1160464 said:


> This is my second year snowblowing residential properties. My business is cash only and i do not carry insurance. Would you recommend buying insurance, having the owner sign a disclaimer, or not having any protection at all?
> Thanks.


The simple answer is get insurance. The longer answer is that you are probably judgment proof.

Your options are as follows:

1. Don't get insurance and don't tell the property owner: If you have no assets than no one is going to sue you to get a judgment against you that you'll never be able to pay. Since you'll just declare bankruptcy and have the judgment discharged. Unless the judgment is for an intentional tort.) Instead they'll sue you and the property owner, collect against both of you as joint tort feasors, and then collect the full judgment from the property owner since the property owner is joint and severally liable for your negligence. (Alternatively, they are vicariously liable for the full judgment as your employer). The property owner will then sue you for your share of the judgment if they think you have any assets, and take what you have. Of course the down side to this is someone getting hurt, and not being reimbursed for their expenses. Personally, I'd have a guilty conscience were that to happen to me.

2. Don't get insurance and get the property owner to sign a waiver: This doesn't really protect you except against the property owner. Anyone who slips on their property will still be able to take action against you (assuming you have assets to go after). If you want to go this route then you'll want the property owner to indemnify you against any claims arising out of your work on the property. If I were the property owner, and you presented me with such a form I'd tell you to take a hike.

3. Get insurance: why don't you call a local broker and find out what a general liability policy will cost you. Given what I assume the size of your operation is insurance probably will not break your bank account. You'll probably find you get more clients by having insurance.


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