# How do you guys have routes that are 10 hours long and keep customers happy?



## JFon101231 (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm pretty small right now, and mostly just use the $ to pay for the extra insurance and truck/plow. I also do some repairs etc. on the side. For most storms around here under 6-8" I go out once per driveway at the end of the storm. Generally takes me about 2-2.5 hours to hit them all and be home as I have 1 that is kind of off the path. If more than 6" I generally will hit them 1/2 way through the storm to open things up but not necessarily make sure its 'pretty'. 

Question - how are you guys plowing for 10-12 hours at a clip and still keeping your customers happy??? I don't get how your customers being cleared out 8 hours after the snow has stopped at say 10am are OK with being stuck home still at 6pm etc. Or say an overnight storm that stops at 1am and they are not cleared out by 7am to go to work. 

Maybe I'm missing something... I'd like to roughly double my route, but I don't see how I could do much more than that and still keep people happy unless the end customers were all people to agreed to that level of service (retired etc.)


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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

JFon101231;1766383 said:


> I'm pretty small right now, and mostly just use the $ to pay for the extra insurance and truck/plow. I also do some repairs etc. on the side. For most storms around here under 6-8" I go out once per driveway at the end of the storm. Generally takes me about 2-2.5 hours to hit them all and be home as I have 1 that is kind of off the path. If more than 6" I generally will hit them 1/2 way through the storm to open things up but not necessarily make sure its 'pretty'.
> 
> Question - how are you guys plowing for 10-12 hours at a clip and still keeping your customers happy??? I don't get how your customers being cleared out 8 hours after the snow has stopped at say 10am are OK with being stuck home still at 6pm etc. Or say an overnight storm that stops at 1am and they are not cleared out by 7am to go to work.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something... I'd like to roughly double my route, but I don't see how I could do much more than that and still keep people happy unless the end customers were all people to agreed to that level of service (retired etc.)


We run close to 10 hours on an average 6" snow here. With the blower equipment, it doesn't make much difference when there is less than a foot to the time we spend on our route.

We plan our route to accommodate people to the best we can, and if its a heavy snow, then we might do a quick opening pass followed later by a full clearing.

Some people want cleared before they leave for work, others don't care or would rather be cleared after they leave so that we can access the whole driveway. In this way, you can accommodate most peoples needs and still maintain a longer route. Our "prime time" (as would be most others on here) is from about 6am to 9am and we usually reserve most of that time for commercial businesses with the machines we use for both driveways and lots. Our driveway machine just keeps going on driveways all morning.

We usually start around 3 or 4 am or sometimes earlier if its heavy with our commercial sites that are close to our starting point, clearing up the bulk and go back just before opening to finish. They are within 0.5 miles of our start point so its no biggie to go back a second time. The main problem we have is the town plows, they are pretty aggressive and start around 4 am. We can have a 2" snowfall, but the driveways will sometimes have a foot or more if they decide they want to wing it back. They are aggressive here at getting down to the pavement on every pass.

What can sometimes throw a wrench into the plan is when we get a heavy daytime snow. The commercial sites are typically plugged full of cars so we don't do much with them other than the entrances etc. And we usually do a quick driveway run to open things up before 4pm.

I think if you are clear in your contract and description of your service that you start at a particular "trigger" and will accommodate time requests where possible depending on the storm etc. you should be fine.


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## DJ Contracting (Dec 16, 2003)

*Prioritizing has worked for us*

We prioritize the customers, any that need to be out say by 7:00am get their drive done so the can go to work, the rest are in no hurry to travel the snow covered roads. We continue with our routs and when we are in the area where the driveways were done earlier we'll do the sidewalks, seems to work for us.


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## linckeil (Sep 18, 2007)

i have 50 residentials. they all know my route takes me 6 hours for a 6" storm (longer if more snow). so if it stops snowing at midnight, everyone is done at 6am and there are no problems. but when it stops snowing at 8am, the route is not completed until 2pm. they all are are told this upfront and all understand they are not my only customer and they all know they cannot all be done first. those that don't understand or those that frequently call me within the 6 hour time period wondering when they will be plowed get dropped from the route. 

i find that 6 hours is acceptable. anything over that is too long to make customers wait in my opinion unless they are ok with being shut in for an extended period of time.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

A 10 hour route is way too much for one truck, its only a matter of time before people start to complain.


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## Midwest BuildIt Inc (Nov 14, 2004)

you can also use diff types of businesses to your advantage. early ones gets done by 530am, apartment lanes done by 630 can go back after noon or so for full plow, offices dont open till 8, smaller shops 9-10, restaurants anywhere from 10-4pm, add in a few drives that dont care when they get done and maybe a bar or dinner only place that doesnt open till 5pm. some specialty medical places sometimes dont open till afternoon too.so with the right account types you can get a long route and keep everyone happy.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

JFon101231;1766383 said:


> I'm pretty small right now, and mostly just use the $ to pay for the extra insurance and truck/plow. I also do some repairs etc. on the side. For most storms around here under 6-8" I go out once per driveway at the end of the storm. Generally takes me about 2-2.5 hours to hit them all and be home as I have 1 that is kind of off the path. If more than 6" I generally will hit them 1/2 way through the storm to open things up but not necessarily make sure its 'pretty'.
> 
> Question - how are you guys plowing for 10-12 hours at a clip and still keeping your customers happy??? I don't get how your customers being cleared out 8 hours after the snow has stopped at say 10am are OK with being stuck home still at 6pm etc. Or say an overnight storm that stops at 1am and they are not cleared out by 7am to go to work.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something... I'd like to roughly double my route, but I don't see how I could do much more than that and still keep people happy unless the end customers were all people to agreed to that level of service (retired etc.)


How does 6 inches keep someone from driving out of their driveway? They leave for work in the morning with a few inches on the ground, come back in the evening and its all gone. Frankly, its easier for both when the plowing gets done while their car is OUT, since otherwise you either miss the spot where it was parked, or have to mess around moving it.


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## RonWin (Nov 17, 2011)

So what do you do for those accounts that want to be out by 7 am for work and hold a contract with you? Yet the snow wont stop until 11 am and still has another 4" to dump? Are you going to clear twice?


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## maxwellp (Feb 16, 2013)

I do a quick opening pass followed later by a full cleaning. Plus I know the ones that will complain and the ones that have 4x4. As long as they can get in and out and it is cleaned up by the next day all is good. If I had to have them all done say in 2 hours I would not make any money.


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## NThill93 (Dec 14, 2013)

Prioritize, I know who needs to get out and I plan accordingly. Its all about knowing your customers. I do agree that 10 hours on one truck is way too much.


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

I have an 8-10 hour route. It's a rural community and ranges out 15 miles from home.Some drives up to 1/2 mile long. Every one of my customers has come to me. I've never solicited work.I charge a rate equal to $100 per hr, and do the best job I can. If it is a big storm, ( more than a foot) I'll bust them open part way through. They all understand how long it takes to do my route. I've told them all, if you have a problem and need to be out by a certain time, just let me know and I'll be there. No extra charge. Don't abuse the service. I'm also not afraid to dump complainers. Got rid of one this week. Will drop another at the end of 
the season. That will make room for for some of the folks I've turned down due to my dance card being full. Just be honest about the situation. Your good customers will thank you,the rest you can live without.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

Not everyone needs to be done first. So that gives flexiblity. Then you reverse the route. Those first last storm are now last.

Though I always take care of the customers that want me everytime there is 1" of snow. Then the ones that pay well and have called me for years and never complain and want my level of service.

You never will be able to make everyone happy. Though you do your best to make all as happy as you can.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

I tell my customers to call me when they want service. I explain that everyone has a different tolerance level and a different budget for snow. So for those that want service at 1 inch, I can do that but will not hear from most of the customers that I do at 6". So when I get the call, they get the approximate time that I will be there.

When I send out an invoice it is because you called for the service. No misunderstanding about why I plowed your driveway with only 1 inch of snow.

I do not do contracts.


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

You know what they say, good help is hard to find. A lot of homeowners have gone through multiple plow guys, sometimes even in the same winter season. So when they find a good / reliable plow guy, they are willing to wait, knowing we will definitely show. And their are little tricks to keeping a long route. Rotate your route. On one storm, start at the West end of town and work East. Next time, work East to West. This way you're not constantly late on the same customer. Helps keep them happy. But when it gets too long, just add another plow truck to your fleet. Or add a couple kids with their pick up truck (throw them gas money) and a blower. It's a cheap investment and helps speed up time.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Brian Young;1766789 said:


> A 10 hour route is way too much for one truck, its only a matter of time before people start to complain.


I agree with you 10 hrs is to long But it happens a lot
My route was 8hrs but after adding one more lot in Jan Its back to 10hrs per rig I run 5 plow rigs = to a 50 hr route if one truck did it

The route can be up 15-20 per rig depending when the snow starts and ends 
I always plow during the storm during the day time


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## xjoedirt55x (Dec 11, 2009)

A lot is about different customers being different priority. Some are top priority, and need to be cleared every so often, some just need their drive or lot cleared within a day and it is no big deal. When you are out giving bids and writing contracts, keep that in mind and keep a fair balance of high and low priority jobs, and spell it out with the customer up front.


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## bosman (Oct 20, 2008)

My route can take up to 12 hours on a small storm. Commercial properties almost always get done first, we typically don't start drives until 7-8 hours after snow stops. Most drives we do are for my lawn care customers, most for more than 10 years. I don't have any complaints anymore about how long it takes me to get to them, they know we'll be there. Since the drives are done last, I don't charge what some around here charge, sometimes way less than half. Cheapest drive we do is $30, that may be considered low balling to some on here, but I don't care. Others on here with seasonals would probably love to get that every visit, especially this year. Route is alternated every storm, last one done for one storm gets done first next time. 

If I only worked for 2-2.5 hours every time it snowed I'd have to go get a "real job." I mean seriously two hours, how do you stay in business? I don't give anyone an option of paying more to be done first, I treat everyone the same. Millionaires get treated the same as the 90 year old widow on fixed income. It is what it is and if they don't like it they can always find someone else to do the job. Be honest with them when they hire you, and don't give them anything to complain about.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

A mix of customers (Resi, Commercial, Church, Daycare) along with different triggers (1",2" and 4") is what I've found works for me.
Resi's get hit in the early am and if needed again mid-late afternoon.
Commercial and Daycare are done by 7am, throughout the day clear the lanes and full plow after 6pm. 
Church is last unless it's the weekend.
My route is 7hrs, I run 1 truck and have a shovel guy that drives himself, I just plow.
It's take time to build a good mix of customers and route. 
Whatever you do don't be foolish and get in over your head.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

The only way my routes end up being 10 hours is if we get over 12" of snow. 

No way that would fly around here. At least not with my clients.


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Takes 12hrs for my 3 trucks and 1 skid to get through once. They key is have lots that have different openings. I only do 1 residential so its different for me. Have 2 open 24/7 a few that need cleared by 6:30 then 7 then 8 then 9 then 10. And of course half of them are closed over the weekends so I always pray for a Friday night storm. 

Usually a during the day storm we just try to make sure the drive lanes are open. A lot of people will go home early, then once the places are clear we do a complete plow over night. Complete plow is 12hrs. So depending on the storm, 1.5 plows each site.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

maelawncare;1768165 said:


> Takes 12hrs for my 3 trucks and 1 skid to get through once. They key is have lots that have different openings. I only do 1 residential so its different for me. Have 2 open 24/7 a few that need cleared by 6:30 then 7 then 8 then 9 then 10. And of course half of them are closed over the weekends so I always pray for a Friday night storm.
> 
> Usually a during the day storm we just try to make sure the drive lanes are open. A lot of people will go home early, then once the places are clear we do a complete plow over night. Complete plow is 12hrs. So depending on the storm, 1.5 plows each site.


So your route is like mine then right if you only had one truck Your route would take 48 hrs

I sure do lover weekend snows 1/2 my accounts are closed on weekends
This year I say 80% of the storms we had has been on weekends


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Add more trucks.... Some lots get heavy salting till you can get back to it.... 

Do what you have to to keep people happy... Get a sub...

10 hours way to long


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

Flawless440;1768269 said:


> Add more trucks.... Some lots get heavy salting till you can get back to it....
> 
> Do what you have to to keep people happy... Get a sub...
> 
> 10 hours way to long


Depends. All residential maybe. Commercial is doable if you stagger the openings.

10hrs one pass on residential might be too long, unless you customers know this. I have a residential I added this year and told them they are on bottom of the list, I will get to them when I get to them. Its a gravel drive so really don't plow unless above 4".

For some 10 hrs works. For other, 2 hr route is all they can handle. We are not all made equal in the plow industry.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

I know my market is very different from most of yours. Our cycle time is 4 hrs. If we have dedicated equipment on site it can go to 6 hrs.
So if I understand right, those of you who have clients with different opening hrs that are close to each other, you drive back later in the day to service them instead of doing both while you are there. If you are on a 10 hr route, and its snowing 1 inch an hr, your commercial client is OK waiting for you with 10 inches of snow in his lot. Even with our 4 hr cycle time, on bigger storms there can be 4 inches of snow in the lot, most of my commercials get pretty antsy with snow like that. If I went any longer then 4 hrs, I would lose all my clients.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

I have a mix of commercial, multifamily and residential. I lay out the times businesses open on a spread sheet. 
My normal route is about 6 hours. On heavier days it's longer. There are some 1" triggers, some 2" & 4 that are 4".
(they move to the back of the line) On heavy events, It takes 12 hours to do everything.
If there's enough snow before they open, the early one get done first. Then I do the multifamily lots, then residential. No one complains. On days when businesses are closed, residents get done earlier.
Just my 2 pennies.


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## andersman02 (May 5, 2012)

I can't see how you can even afford a truck payment with 2 hours of work per storm unless you have an extremely tight route or charge an extremely high price.

We plow resi after the last flake falls. Regardless of if you NEED to be too work in the am. If the storm is over 6in we go out more than once beginning around 4 to 5in. Routes are switched each storm. Routes take 5 to 6 hours for a4 in snow

If your car can't get through 6in you aren't making up the street


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

andersman02;1769283 said:


> I can't see how you can even afford a truck payment with 2 hours of work per storm unless you have an extremely tight route or charge an extremely high price.
> 
> We plow resi after the last flake falls. Regardless of if you NEED to be too work in the am. If the storm is over 6in we go out more than once beginning around 4 to 5in. Routes are switched each storm. Routes take 5 to 6 hours for a4 in snow
> 
> If your car can't get through 6in you aren't making up the street


Yet you gotta love it when you get the occasional call asking why a property hasn't been plowed, when there's a foot of snow on the city streets. But, that's another topic.


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## JFon101231 (Dec 5, 2008)

andersman02;1769283 said:


> I can't see how you can even afford a truck payment with 2 hours of work per storm unless you have an extremely tight route or charge an extremely high price.
> 
> We plow resi after the last flake falls. Regardless of if you NEED to be too work in the am. If the storm is over 6in we go out more than once beginning around 4 to 5in. Routes are switched each storm. Routes take 5 to 6 hours for a4 in snow
> 
> If your car can't get through 6in you aren't making up the street


For starters, that wasn't the question. I work full-time doing something else, and the truck was a 2nd vehicle for me that was bought at a good price. As I said, plowing gives me some fun money and enough to cover the plow and truck which I mostly bought for myself.

For others, I threw out 10 hours just as a number, but it seems most people are closer to 6 hours which seems more reasonable. I think there were a lot of other good suggestions as well so keep 'em coming but most center around customers. I did pick up one guy that is off my route but I have up to 12 hours after end of storm so its convenient. I wouldn't mind opening up the route then going back when done which is what I do now for big storms but cherry picking a few people who might need to get plowed out earlier than others would cut into efficiency with a route that isn't very dense.

Thanks, Jeff


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## andersman02 (May 5, 2012)

JFon101231;1770420 said:


> For starters, that wasn't the question. I work full-time doing something else, and the truck was a 2nd vehicle for me that was bought at a good price. As I said, plowing gives me some fun money and enough to cover the plow and truck which I mostly bought for myself.
> 
> For others, I threw out 10 hours just as a number, but it seems most people are closer to 6 hours which seems more reasonable. I think there were a lot of other good suggestions as well so keep 'em coming but most center around customers. I did pick up one guy that is off my route but I have up to 12 hours after end of storm so its convenient. I wouldn't mind opening up the route then going back when done which is what I do now for big storms but cherry picking a few people who might need to get plowed out earlier than others would cut into efficiency with a route that isn't very dense.
> 
> Thanks, Jeff


No negativity towards you, it was just a blanket statement.

For someone who plows on the side maybe a 2 hour small route is more than enough . For a business, atleast ours, we'd need to keep our trucks our longer than that unless the route had the same number of people just in 1 neigborhood.

Our routes are roughly 6 hours. Our commercial routes are longer, but as others have said that is because we have a mix of opennings. Some churches that only have to be done at a certain time weds and sunday, businesses that open at different times etc.

My opinion is a 10hr resi route is too long for people to wait, UNLESS you add in foreclosed homes or out of state homeowners which are fantastic.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Staggered opening times or not, 10 hours is too long, at least for my area\snowfall around here.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

JFon101231;1770420 said:


> For starters, that wasn't the question. I work full-time doing something else, and the truck was a 2nd vehicle for me that was bought at a good price. As I said, plowing gives me some fun money and enough to cover the plow and truck which I mostly bought for myself.
> 
> Thanks, Jeff


Can I ask you a question? When you are working at your full time job. Who does your route? If you don't have anybody. You think its fair to your customer to wait till you get off.


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## JFon101231 (Dec 5, 2008)

DodgeBlizzard;1767388 said:


> ...And their are little tricks to keeping a long route. Rotate your route. On one storm, start at the West end of town and work East. Next time, work East to West. This way you're not constantly late on the same customer. Helps keep them happy.


A mini-poll here - is this what most of you guys recommend? Seems to have been mentioned a few times, and on first blush I would have thought the opposite so customer X is always about last flake plus 3 hours for example, but I also see how that makes you sour if you are the one that's always the last on the route if you didn't know that in advance... I guess it would really only change the ones on the beginning/end of the route enough for them to tell.

As for the other two questions:
1) The 2 hour route or so has been working fine for me, would just like a little more. I thought about subbing but I'm a bit worried about the lack of flexibility and don't want to get someone in a pinch. Some of mine are in the same neighborhood but need to be aggressive in the coming year to try and add a few more.
2) In regards to my normal day job, I usually leave home around 730a so if its an overnight snow I do before work or if mid-day small storm I'll do when I get home around 630p. If its a bigger storm (6" or more) I typically work from home and go out when its done unless over 10" then I'll go out twice. All of my customers know this up front. It did happen that I had to travel out of state this winter and a fellow PS'er was nice enough to cover for me.

PS. It seems everyone agrees that 10 hrs is too long which is fine. My original statement was really that I wanted to go from 2-2.5 hours to 4-5 hours so the 10 hrs isn't really relevant at this point.


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## Greenstar lawn (Jan 18, 2009)

All my snow customers are also my lawn customers. I simply tell them that commercial comes first which takes about 5 hrs then I do all my driveways. Usually only 1 or 2 calls asking when I will be there but that's usually it. Been doing it this way for 6 yrs now


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Greenstar lawn;1770499 said:


> All my snow customers are also my lawn customers. I simply tell them that commercial comes first which takes about 5 hrs then I do all my driveways. Usually only 1 or 2 calls asking when I will be there but that's usually it. Been doing it this way for 6 yrs now


I operate the same way (for 18 yrs) My commercials are opened for 7- 8am then I begin driveways. Many of my commercials can't even be done reasonably during the day other than lanes and sidewalks. 
Heavy snows are around and around I go...After awhile you learn who are reasonable and who aren't. Some people expect you to catch the flakes, others understand that winter storms will end and get cleaned up. It is not uncommon for me to start at 2am and still be out at 2pm.


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## Snow tracker (Jan 31, 2014)

We can plow for for up to 12 hours with one truck. We have a mix of commercials, condos, residential and second homes. I know who needs to be out by when. But who can't drive thru 4 to 6 inches once to get out? I would think in the city or suburbs where people drive cars it would be different. 

I do not think for this kind of route that 12 hours is too long.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Snow tracker;1770579 said:


> We can plow for for up to 12 hours with one truck. We have a mix of commercials, condos, residential and second homes. I know who needs to be out by when. But who can't drive thru 4 to 6 inches once to get out? I would think in the city or suburbs where people drive cars it would be different.
> 
> I do not think for this kind of route that 12 hours is too long.


you're in a whole different world up there snow tracker. But the county does a better job than the city can, because there's more congestion. In a city people can also take a bus or cab, so they're not stranded. 
If the city plows can't keep up, no one can expect us to.


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## maelawncare (Mar 4, 2004)

EWSplow;1770763 said:


> you're in a whole different world up there snow tracker. But the county does a better job than the city can, because there's more congestion. In a city people can also take a bus or cab, so they're not stranded.
> If the city plows can't keep up, no one can expect us to.


Exactly. We have a 12hr route and all our lots a cleared before the city streets are. Even most of the MODOT streets are still covered by the time we get done.


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## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

My route is close to 10 hours and yet to have an upset customer. Reason being is that quite a few of my customers are referrals from existing customers. Most were unhappy with the other local plow guys not showing up because of break downs or whatever the reason is. I show up and even if my main truck breaks down, I have a back up truck, also a backup plan for the back up truck. So unless I die, I will be there to plow, and they all know I get there as soon as I can. I never let anybody down yet, and do not plan to either. Actually I have a back up driver too, so even if I die, the customers will still get plowed out..lol.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

JFon101231;1770469 said:


> A mini-poll here - is this what most of you guys recommend?


Italian economist Pareto found that there is an 80% to 20% rule in wealth/business. 20% of the population will have 80% of the wealth. 20% of customers/business activities will yield 80% of your profits. 80% of your complaints will come from 20% of your customers.

We have to try to keep all are customers happy. Though we due to self preservation we have to put our best customers first. The best I do for my less desirable customers is they get the same level or work done.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Neige;1768584 said:


> I know my market is very different from most of yours. Our cycle time is 4 hrs. If we have dedicated equipment on site it can go to 6 hrs.
> So if I understand right, those of you who have clients with different opening hrs that are close to each other, you drive back later in the day to service them instead of doing both while you are there. If you are on a 10 hr route, and its snowing 1 inch an hr, your commercial client is OK waiting for you with 10 inches of snow in his lot. Even with our 4 hr cycle time, on bigger storms there can be 4 inches of snow in the lot, most of my commercials get pretty antsy with snow like that. If I went any longer then 4 hrs, I would lose all my clients.


Your cycle time is because you will have 3 storms come through in that 4 hrs stretch....


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## Fannin76 (Jan 1, 2014)

I was out 20 hrs every storm, but I did commercial properties and then at the end of commercial properties I would do people that called to be plowed out. Never really had individuals on per storm basis just did on call


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

Fannin76;1816999 said:


> I was out 20 hrs every storm, but I did commercial properties and then at the end of commercial properties I would do people that called to be plowed out. Never really had individuals on per storm basis just did on call


I operate my snow plowing business by phone call. I do not have or want any contracts. This takes all of the pressure off of me. I know most of you do not operate like this, but it works for me.

No mis-communication on trigger depths.

When you get the invoice, it is because you requested the service and not because I thought you needed or wanted snow plowing.


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