# Official cheapskate customer thread for 2014/2015 season!



## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Let's here them!

My first..

Second home on the lake. $20,000 a year tax bill, just built, gorgeous.

Owner is going in for surgery on his back. Wants me to backdrag closer to the garage. Tell him I will shovel, but sent text before I add in my fee.
He replied "GREAT!"
I reply I would like to get $10 for this service. Making his total per push/shovel cost $40, up from $30.
He replies "WOW! I wasn't planning on THAT! NO, just backdrag closer."
I replied that I can't get any closer, because I will not risk damaging his garage. He never replied to that one.
It's always the wealthy guy.


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## Snow tracker (Jan 31, 2014)

Just ask him for a garage door opener and tell him to turn up the heat. :angry:


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Those kind of people make me lose my mind. I would just drop him immediately.


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## MatthewG (Jun 16, 2009)

Dropped customer/had my first argument with a customer in 5 years today, mind you he is Asian.

5.1" of snow the day before thanksgiving, per the signed contract it was $175 to plow, plus $175 to salt. I gave him the bill today at a discounted rate of $300 total, he freaked out. I offered to lower the bill to $200 on the spot and then immediately terminate the contract. He countered with $150 (in his Asian voice). I said $200 or we are going to court. Cheap Mother ****** (It is a 1 acre strip mall)

Turned and walked away, its too bad since my mom works at the restaurant in this strip mall and I could have gotten more business from her telling the customers that we do the lot.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

MatthewG;1887560 said:


> Dropped customer/had my first argument with a customer in 5 years today, mind you he is Asian.
> 
> 5.1" of snow the day before thanksgiving, per the signed contract it was $175 to plow, plus $175 to salt. I gave him the bill today at a discounted rate of $300 total, he freaked out. I offered to lower the bill to $200 on the spot and then immediately terminate the contract. He countered with $150 (in his Asian voice). I said $200 or we are going to court. Cheap Mother ****** (It is a 1 acre strip mall)
> 
> Turned and walked away, its too bad since my mom works at the restaurant in this strip mall and I could have gotten more business from her telling the customers that we do the lot.


I guess I'm confused here. You had a signed contract that spells out he's charged 175 for plowing, and 175 for salting. You billed him for 300 and not 350 that it should have been for what reason? And then offered to lower it another 100??

I fail to see any logic at all in this...he knew your prices before the work was done. He agreed to the prices before the work was done. He's got a bill to pay, and he agreed to the prices already. Why did you lower it in the first place?


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## MatthewG (Jun 16, 2009)

First time customer, first storm, plus only 2" accumulated from the official 5.1" due to the warm ground.

I was trying to make the guy feel good, and I was going to ask to put my 3'x2' yard sign on his property by the road.

When he started freaking I knew it was a doomed deal so I cut out the other $100, but at that point it was for nothing.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Harleyjeff;1887497 said:


> Those kind of people make me lose my mind. I would just drop him immediately.


I thought about it. But I will get much more pleasure out of not backdragging as much as he thinks I should. He seems to think I can get my blade to within 2" of his doors. I prefer to remain a good 18" back..not about to damage this prik's place, he would send the national guard after me.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

Buswell tell the guy you will phone ahead when you are on the way to do driveway and he should have his door open when you get there. If he is not there or late getting door open you will do what you believe to be safe for his property and will catch you next time. It works for me.


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## allagashpm (Sep 29, 2012)

Chineau;1887659 said:


> Buswell tell the guy you will phone ahead when you are on the way to do driveway and he should have his door open when you get there. If he is not there or late getting door open you will do what you believe to be safe for his property and will catch you next time. It works for me.


I'm willing to bet unless he loves winters in the northeast he will not be around


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## Lcmains1 (Jan 13, 2014)

Paid $75 per hour to plow a lot, billed the customer for 1.5 hours for the first billing (new customer) got told "the old company charged 1.25 hours" I explained that they are billed from when I leave the last place until I'm finished with the lot. I got told that it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to drive the distance I'm coming. The old company never did it that. I told them "you need to call the old company back". She was arguing over 10-15 minutes of time, whata joke


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## vlc (Dec 8, 2012)

This guy pulled up to me during our last storm. Said he owns a small lot down the street that he needs plowed because his truck won't start. He said it would take 30-45 minutes to plow it and he'll give me 25 bucks. It was so hard not to laugh...


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

I did an emergency leaf job for a lady the day before snow, then she left town and came back to see her driveway wasn't plowed. She called to hire me and asked what I would charge. Before I could tell her my price of $80 she blurted out that the guy last year charged $35. Trying to keep my composure I informed her I couldn't even come close to that and suggested she shop around a bit.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

allagashpm;1887722 said:


> I'm willing to bet unless he loves winters in the northeast he will not be around


No, he comes up 2 or 3 times each month. But with the surgery, he will be away for a good while. He should have a good 3 feet to shovel when he gets up here again.


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

Had a woman hire me to plow her driveway. Paid in full for the season, signed contract, the whole deal. Not 24 hours later she calls to tell me her husband bought a snowblower and she would like to cancel. I should have retained 10% just for the aggravation


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

I had a guy who had a 30 degree straight incline driveway and I plowed his driveway for about 2 seasons for 80 bucks a shot . After the 2nd season he told me he could find someone cheaper to do his driveway. I turned around and said I dont mind if you do because this driveway is just a headache but on a side note I talked to the guy whos plowing his driveway now and is charging 20 bucks more then I was. I musta been doing something wrong


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## firefighter1406 (Nov 6, 2008)

I had a guy who went on vacation. Just wanted me to wait until he got back to plow. I told him it doesn't work like that. I explained I can't wait until there is a foot of snow and come do your driveway and do a good job. He grumbled but agreed. We got over a foot and a half of snow during the two weeks he was gone. Plowed it 3 times. Guy paid and I never heard from him again.


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## ggb6259 (Jan 14, 2010)

firefighter1406;1889678 said:


> I had a guy who went on vacation. Just wanted me to wait until he got back to plow. I told him it doesn't work like that. I explained I can't wait until there is a foot of snow and come do your driveway and do a good job. He grumbled but agreed. We got over a foot and a half of snow during the two weeks he was gone. Plowed it 3 times. Guy paid and I never heard from him again.


Try that with a drinking buddy... He went to Florida for a month with his wife. Calls me when she is in the air and asked if I could plow out the drive before she got home. Now this was out of the blue. I said sure knowing he has about a 600' foot drive with a small bridge over a creek.

I get there and there's about 16" of snow on the ground. I look at as a challenge and go after it. Took every bit of an hour. (Dodge 1500 / Snowdogg MD75)

He gets back and we are at the watering hole a few months later with the rest of the drunks and he pipes up and throws me $25, I said thanks and that was that.

Fast forward to last week at the bar. He's talking about heading down again with wife and mentions his drive. Looks at me and asks if I can be available. I said sure but I'm plowing with the snow and you get to throw cash at me every time I run the truck. He starts whining and then the rest of our crew jumps his ass, pretty hard I might add. I explained very nicely what I felt it cost me to do the job last year and I can do it but at my cost.

No answer... He can go to Florida every year while I'm knee deep in snow here in Michigan and is chafing over a few dollars. I figure he can at least cover my cost... Not trying to gouge him or anything like that.

We'll see what happens...


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## NThill93 (Dec 14, 2013)

ggb6259;1889748 said:


> *I get there and there's about 16" of snow on the ground. I look at as a challenge and go after it.* Took every bit of an hour. (Dodge 1500 / Snowdogg MD75)
> 
> We'll see what happens...


jeez you're from michigan and see 16" of snow as a challenge figured you guys would think thats baby stuff


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

I know this isn't lawn site but here is something to look out for. Doing lawn service as usual and leaf clean ups we always start cutting shorter into the fall and makes clean ups go easier. We always have a few extra people call and want a clean up done. This year it seems those people stopped cutting the first of September so you get there to do a clean up and the grass is a foot tall. Always go and take a look before you give em a price or say ok.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

Buswell Forest;1887459 said:


> Let's here them!
> 
> My first..
> 
> ...


i like the idea of the opener, tell him to pull his vehicles up to the back of the garage and that will let you set the blade without damaging his door


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

NThill93;1889792 said:


> jeez you're from michigan and see 16" of snow as a challenge figured you guys would think thats baby stuff


You have to remember, that could be 4 inches of cement, on top of 4 inches of ice, on top of 4 inches of fluff and the first 4 inches is hard packed (driven over snow) before they left for their vacation. 16" inches of snow at once (as long as its fluff) is no big deal, its the stuff that sits around for a month through all the freeze/thaw cycles that is a pain. This is probibly the same customer who complains that their driveway isn't down to bare pavement upon return. BEEN THERE!


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## My bowtie (Jan 15, 2008)

Last yr I plowed a ladys small drive, agreeed on $35 which is my min price.
Fast forward to last week, and she calls asking for a price, and before I could reply she blurts out that the guy who plowed last year charged $20, and could I match it. Total silence on her end when I said I was plowing last year, and I charged $35.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

leolkfrm;1890049 said:


> i like the idea of the opener, tell him to pull his vehicles up to the back of the garage and that will let you set the blade without damaging his door


Vacation home..he comes up, but is very seldom there when I plow. Even if he did open the door, the bays are 8' wide...my plow even in full V is 8'7".
He is just a whiner. He whined last year and I told him the same thing then as I did this year...except the offer to shovel.


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## ggb6259 (Jan 14, 2010)

Plowtoy;1890083 said:


> You have to remember, that could be 4 inches of cement, on top of 4 inches of ice, on top of 4 inches of fluff and the first 4 inches is hard packed (driven over snow) before they left for their vacation. 16" inches of snow at once (as long as its fluff) is no big deal, its the stuff that sits around for a month through all the freeze/thaw cycles that is a pain. This is probibly the same customer who complains that their driveway isn't down to bare pavement upon return. BEEN THERE!


They were out between middle January and middle February... It was not fluffy pretty Christmasy stuff. 
It was nice heavy and settled with the worst being the hardpack at the end of the drive. The county road plow berms. That's stuff you don't move with a lightweight setup like I have. Raise the blade, cut it into the bank and pull it back, find a home for it and repeat until you create a push lane and then angle and go. Nip off a foot at a time.

If it was the fluffy lake effect it would have been 15 minute effort...

Bottom line is, my own fault for trying to help a bud. Would love a 2500 3/4 or 1 ton and 800lb V but not in the financial plans just yet... and would I do it again if he's in a bind, probably..


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

Buswell Forest;1887459 said:


> Let's here them!
> 
> My first..
> 
> ...


Anyone that has switched from a straight blade to a V blade keep in mind you can't get as close to a garage door with your V as you could with your straight !


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## snoworks1 (Jul 11, 2009)

I will lighten the mood up a little in here!!

I had a elderly lady call me once to quote her driveway for seasonal snowplowing. It was a harder than normal driveway so I priced it at $450.00 for the season. She accepted the quote and signed with me and sent payment in full. Just prior to the first storm of the season, she calls and asks me to call her prior to coming to plow her driveway. I tell her that this is not common practice and she says if I want to plow her driveway, I must call her the very first time I plow. I am a little confused but I say fine and when we are near her home, I call her and she says thanks, I will see you guys in a minute.

I get to her house and there is a beautiful trax 2 stage blower sitting in front of the garage door!! My shoveler and I start laughing our asses off, she hired us to plow and bought a snow blower for us to do the work. I went to the door, explained how we do things and said she could return the blower, if she wanted.

CGB


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

jimbo64;1890392 said:


> Anyone that has switched from a straight blade to a V blade keep in mind you can't get as close to a garage door with your V as you could with your straight !


Exactly. The previous plow guy had a 7.5 straight blade..


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

This is my favorite,stop for fuel in a backhoe I "borrowed" a couple of days after that 38" blizzard 2 years ago,lady (common ethnicity for these gas conv stores) asked me if I can clean up lot a little.I spent 10 mins and when I go inside she offers me my choice of anything on the shelves! Problem was they were almost empty,I spent more time picking out something I would actually want than plowing lot!


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## Doughboy12 (Oct 15, 2014)

leigh;1890805 said:


> This is my favorite,stop for fuel in a backhoe I "borrowed" a couple of days after that 38" blizzard 2 years ago,lady (common ethnicity for these gas conv stores) asked me if I can clean up lot a little.I spent 10 mins and when I go inside she offers me my choice of anything on the shelves! Problem was they were almost empty,I spent more time picking out something I would actually want than plowing lot!


Should just take a shelf next time...


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

leigh;1890805 said:


> This is my favorite,stop for fuel in a backhoe I "borrowed" a couple of days after that 38" blizzard 2 years ago,lady (common ethnicity for these gas conv stores) asked me if I can clean up lot a little.I spent 10 mins and when I go inside she offers me my choice of anything on the shelves! Problem was they were almost empty,I spent more time picking out something I would actually want than plowing lot!


St. Patricks day 2007, I pushed out the entrance to a gas station for a cup of coffee and a pack of cigarettes. I literally made 1 pass. Those were the days.


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## andersman02 (May 5, 2012)

A neighbor of mine asks if I can take care of his driveway this year, wasnt happy with the guy last year as when they were out of town, the daughter couldnt get up the drive. Told him my price original price, 540, but with the 2 other nieghbors i do i could knock it down to $485. Says thats way to much, Guy did it for $300 last year. Without getting into it with him why etc.. as hes my neighbor tell him I cant get close to that. within the next 2 weeks he calls a few times and says hes had quotes for $$ and $$ and $$, can i match that. Nope i tell him, but say if you get 2 more neighbors I could knock it down to 425. Call back and asks if I could match $400, nope. After he signs with this guy i talked to him, find out this guy works at home depot and plows on the side when hes done with work.

Drive by the place everyday, hasnt been done yet. Keep in mind we have had probly 8" total, along with freeze/thaw days so I dont want to imagine how icy it is underneath. The worst part is, everyone in my neighborhood gets done if there is .5" down because while the contract is for 1" I do my own drive at anything above .5" and if im doing mine, i might as well do my neighbors. On top of that, they are done within 15 mins of the snow ending.... 

some people


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## Fannin76 (Jan 1, 2014)

My bowtie;1890103 said:


> Last yr I plowed a ladys small drive, agreeed on $35 which is my min price.
> Fast forward to last week, and she calls asking for a price, and before I could reply she blurts out that the guy who plowed last year charged $20, and could I match it. Total silence on her end when I said I was plowing last year, and I charged $35.


This is by far my favorite! Haha some people


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## dstifel (Dec 27, 2012)

My bowtie;1890103 said:


> Last yr I plowed a ladys small drive, agreeed on $35 which is my min price.
> Fast forward to last week, and she calls asking for a price, and before I could reply she blurts out that the guy who plowed last year charged $20, and could I match it. Total silence on her end when I said I was plowing last year, and I charged $35.


Had a similar situation quoted a guy at 45$ he said no guy last year was $35. I said ok I'd reccomend calling him. Sharing this with a buddy in the industry showed him a google map of it to see if I was crazy at $45. He looked said is that so and so? I said sure is he laughed said nope I plowed it last year for $50 we both got a good laugh


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

jimbo64;1890392 said:


> Anyone that has switched from a straight blade to a V blade keep in mind you can't get as close to a garage door with your V as you could with your straight !


You sure about that Clark?


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

I am curious too why you cant get as close with a v-blade .


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

SHAWZER;1891745 said:


> I am curious too why you cant get as close with a v-blade .


Simple physics ! v= 1.2555 added projection @ ,001deg


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

The center hangs out more, so do the ends if you have it straight.. And I also have the deflectors..


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)




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## edgeair (Sep 26, 2010)

Fannin76;1891133 said:


> This is by far my favorite! Haha some people





dstifel;1891228 said:


> Had a similar situation quoted a guy at 45$ he said no guy last year was $35. I said ok I'd reccomend calling him. Sharing this with a buddy in the industry showed him a google map of it to see if I was crazy at $45. He looked said is that so and so? I said sure is he laughed said nope I plowed it last year for $50 we both got a good laugh


Those are both great!

Mine this year was a place where the business residents (there are about 4-5 sharing the cost) questioned me on the cost of salting (I priced it by the kg and gave them an estimated #of kgs per normal application) as well as plowing. The lot is 100'x250' roughly, with little room to pile it, so at some point you will have to blow it back further into a bush (since they didn't want to pay the cost of trucking either). I quoted $40 a push over 2", and roughly the same for salting.

Another guy was awarded the contract, he doesn't have a blower, nor does he have a salt truck.

The irony in this, clients come to this business to get their physical ailments corrected. The business residents are also some of the highest paid in our area and they were coughing at the cost of salt....

I'm going to sit back and watch the lawsuits fly on this one....


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Buswell Forest;1887596 said:


> I thought about it. But I will get much more pleasure out of not backdragging as much as he thinks I should. He seems to think I can get my blade to within 2" of his doors. I prefer to remain a good 18" back..not about to damage this prik's place, he would send the national guard after me.


You should be able get within 3-4 '' of the door safely with your V with out the wings Bottom of the plow might not be as close as the top Let him see that Then he Might let you add your $10


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

Antlerart06;1891834 said:


> You should be able get within 3-4 '' of the door safely with your V with out the wings Bottom of the plow might not be as close as the top Let him see that Then he Might let you add your $10


I don't know about other V blades but that is cutting it pretty close with a Fisher. 3-4" would be a little too close for me especially after a few hours of plowing.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Yeah, after breaking some vinyl siding trying to get as close as possible to a garage door last winter, and the resulting coronary the owner had, I will remain back a good 15 to 18 inches.


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

Buswell Forest;1892480 said:


> Yeah, after breaking some vinyl siding trying to get as close as possible to a garage door last winter, and the resulting coronary the owner had, I will remain back a good 15 to 18 inches.


I never damaged any thing before But my rubber deflecter made a mark on a garage door once... I rather stay away from the door and just shovel it for an additional fee


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Another story, from last winter...

Bill a customer for pushes over a month's time...and several are listed on the invoice as 3 and 4 inch events..guy has a fit over the phone...he knows dang well I am gouging him! No need of plowing a 4" storm! I explain why it is necessary, and that everyone gets plowed the same...he is having NONE of it.
So, I play nice and agree to just push the bigger events...and then I cut way back on how well I plow when I do go. His driveway is a total mess, but whatever.

This is yet another big dollar lake house, and the guy rents it out half the winter for $3000 per week...and my price to push? $28. This year I went to $30 per push, but I never told him. Just going to send the invoice. Looking forward to his phone call...


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

Buswell Forest;1892490 said:


> Another story, from last winter...
> 
> Bill a customer for pushes over a month's time...and several are listed on the invoice as 3 and 4 inch events..guy has a fit over the phone...he knows dang well I am gouging him! No need of plowing a 4" storm! I explain why it is necessary, and that everyone gets plowed the same...he is having NONE of it.
> So, I play nice and agree to just push the bigger events...and then I cut way back on how well I plow when I do go. His driveway is a total mess, but whatever.
> ...


I've had this problem with driveways too. I don't really take driveways that serious because I can get as many as I want and pay my bills with bigger jobs. They're just bonus dollars really. With that said, I don't usually do contracts because paper scares everyone away. I just tell them I plow starting at 2". I won't make a special exception because someone can deal with 3 or 4". I will plow it as many or as few times as I think I need to during the storm. If you want someone to only come when there's 4 or more inches, look at Craigslist because I'm sure there's someone who will drive 18 miles to come plow it for $15.00. Typical driveway drama.

When I was first starting out, and honestly a little desperate for work, I had a gravel parking lot that sometimes the owner's 60 year old husband would shovel. Back then, this didn't bother me...funny how things change.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

jimbo64;1891842 said:


> I don't know about other V blades but that is cutting it pretty close with a Fisher. 3-4" would be a little too close for me especially after a few hours of plowing.


My MVP is the same as a Fisher I do it all the time never had a problem I don't have a deflector on my V plow with out wing on now with wings on I say I'm about 15-18'' away 
I try to get as much as I can so there less to shovel 
But last year didn't do to much driveways with it My skid does them now


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

ggb6259;1889748 said:


> Try that with a drinking buddy... He went to Florida for a month with his wife. Calls me when she is in the air and asked if I could plow out the drive before she got home. Now this was out of the blue. I said sure knowing he has about a 600' foot drive with a small bridge over a creek.
> 
> I get there and there's about 16" of snow on the ground. I look at as a challenge and go after it. Took every bit of an hour. (Dodge 1500 / Snowdogg MD75)
> 
> ...


I have a tightwad buddy that is not mechanical at all. Last winter he bought a cheap used snowblower and it didn't work when he needed it. Then he blew off all the shoveling and just drove over it for a week. Worst storm of the year comes and asks me to hit it when I'm done with my lots I said ok. I get there and there's like 12 inches down. I drop the plow and go in and it was like I hit a brick wall, blade tripped and everything, thought I was on the moon. Finally I got the majority of the hardpack up. Instead of paying me he offers me a can of beer. I was like wtf. In the spring I noticed I put a small crack on the plow.I know it was from his drive. Damn tightwad. I can't stand friends like that!


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

I just received an email saying a property we plow for will be closed for two weeks during the holiday break and will not need plowing or salting done during those two weeks. I just responded saying I strongly suggest against doing this, because you can possibly go from a simple plowing, to needing lots of salt and heavy equipment to peel up two weeks worth of snow turned to ice. Please leave your home number and your cell number. Because if it snows and you decide not to plow, I will be calling. I've been plowing this place for years and they've never pulled this move.


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## jpell (Jan 2, 2014)

DodgeBlizzard;1892583 said:


> I just received an email saying a property we plow for will be closed for two weeks during the holiday break and will not need plowing or salting done during those two weeks. I just responded saying I strongly suggest against doing this, because you can possibly go from a simple plowing, to needing lots of salt and heavy equipment to peel up two weeks worth of snow turned to ice. Please leave your home number and your cell number. Because if it snows and you decide not to plow, I will be calling. I've been plowing this place for years and they've never pulled this move.


Good luck with that. That is going to be a mess if they decide to keep you off the property. Good luck, hopefully they will hear you out and make the right decision.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

DodgeBlizzard;1892583 said:


> I just received an email saying a property we plow for will be closed for two weeks during the holiday break and will not need plowing or salting done during those two weeks. I just responded saying I strongly suggest against doing this, because you can possibly go from a simple plowing, to needing lots of salt and heavy equipment to peel up two weeks worth of snow turned to ice. Please leave your home number and your cell number. Because if it snows and you decide not to plow, I will be calling. I've been plowing this place for years and they've never pulled this move.


Just because they're closed, doesn't mean they aren't liable for a slip and fall on their property. Plus what if there's a fire and the fire trucks can't get in? Make sure it's in writing that they're suspending service so they can't flip it back to you and say you didn't perform your responsibility.


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

When you give a customer a price for plowing there driveway, why wouldn't you include shoveling that area right in front of there garage door, I mean it's a professional snow plowing service, get out and shovel that extra 1 or 2 feet in front of the door, it doesn't take much time to do that, the customer shouldn't have to do that. Just my opinion not trying to be rude. When we do driveways, we plow the driveway and shovel the walks and in front of the garage door for one flat price, no reason to get the customer worked up about a extra $10, include that in your price from the start. They will apreciate it.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

DodgeBlizzard;1892583 said:


> I just received an email saying a property we plow for will be closed for two weeks during the holiday break and will not need plowing or salting done during those two weeks. I just responded saying I strongly suggest against doing this, because you can possibly go from a simple plowing, to needing lots of salt and heavy equipment to peel up two weeks worth of snow turned to ice. Please leave your home number and your cell number. Because if it snows and you decide not to plow, I will be calling. I've been plowing this place for years and they've never pulled this move.


I have few places does that I charge extra for that when I have to clean it 
Most the time its goes to hourly rate Since like last year had to use loaders with buckets to scape the hard pack snow off. If they think they are saving $$ I let them think that.

Do I call them a Cheapskate nope why clean something that is not going be open for 2 weeks


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

94gt331;1892668 said:


> When you give a customer a price for plowing there driveway, why wouldn't you include shoveling that area right in front of there garage door, I mean it's a professional snow plowing service, get out and shovel that extra 1 or 2 feet in front of the door, it doesn't take much time to do that, the customer shouldn't have to do that. Just my opinion not trying to be rude. When we do driveways, we plow the driveway and shovel the walks and in front of the garage door for one flat price, no reason to get the customer worked up about a extra $10, include that in your price from the start. They will apreciate it.


I don't have the time or back to shovel. If I priced these places $10 more from the start so I could do that, they would have gone elsewhere. My customers are all very tight with a buck. Another customer asked me to shovel his steps, and he agreed to pay for it. Fine, I can manage that. But I can't shovel 34 residential customers and still plow everyone in a timely fashion. Not even considering the 13 commercials.


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## dstifel (Dec 27, 2012)

I'm with 94gt I wish I could get away with out getting as close as possible and not shoveling. I usually just jump out grab a shovel push it back where I feel comfortable to back drag and then back drag it takes at most extra minute or two.


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

I personally feel if I'm taking someone's money to do their drive, I want it to look the best I can when I leave within reason. That being said the best would be compared to the service I do for my own drive, so I usually do a tiny pass with my shovel in front of their garage. The only thing that was a pain was I had a crappy smaller shovel! I have a new larger one this year that I haven't used yet that should make it easier


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

I can understand doing a manicured job if you are in the suburbs with houses every 30 feet,or a HOA..but I am in the woods. Even the lake homes are private, not side by each. Nobody here expects shoveling unless they specifically ask for it.

That said, I spend more time chasing tails and dicking around than most. People get more service than they pay for, by and large. No complaints other than these 2 of Israeli descent I mentioned...


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## xgiovannix12 (Dec 8, 2012)

Buswell Forest;1893441 said:


> I can understand doing a manicured job if you are in the suburbs with houses every 30 feet,or a HOA..but I am in the woods. Even the lake homes are private, not side by each. Nobody here expects shoveling unless they specifically ask for it.
> 
> That said, I spend more time chasing tails and dicking around than most. People get more service than they pay for, by and large. No complaints other than these 2 of Israeli descent I mentioned...


yep Im in the same situation


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## dstifel (Dec 27, 2012)

In no way did I mean to knock you service I have no doubt that 98% of people on this thread do a great job you included was more meant to be that I'm jealous that you don't have to shovel haha


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

94gt331;1892668 said:


> When you give a customer a price for plowing there driveway, why wouldn't you include shoveling that area right in front of there garage door, I mean it's a professional snow plowing service, get out and shovel that extra 1 or 2 feet in front of the door, it doesn't take much time to do that, the customer shouldn't have to do that. Just my opinion not trying to be rude. When we do driveways, we plow the driveway and shovel the walks and in front of the garage door for one flat price, no reason to get the customer worked up about a extra $10, include that in your price from the start. They will apreciate it.


We offer shoveling, extra service, extra cost, just like everywhere else. We don't bid on commercial properties and just throw in shoveling on their walks etc. because it's "professional". If you want to be a "professional" you charge for the service.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

nepatsfan;1893507 said:


> We offer shoveling, extra service, extra cost, just like everywhere else. We don't bid on commercial properties and just throw in shoveling on their walks etc. because it's "professional". If you want to be a "professional" you charge for the service.


Think 94gt was talking a driveway not Commercial properties Stay with the subject


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

nepatsfan;1893507 said:


> We offer shoveling, extra service, extra cost, just like everywhere else. We don't bid on commercial properties and just throw in shoveling on their walks etc. because it's "professional". If you want to be a "professional" you charge for the service.


Think 94gt was talking a driveway not Commercial properties Stay with the subject

You price to do the drive That price should cover all the drive So if you have to get out clean with a shovel in front of the door 2' so your plow can get it You need that figure in the cost of the drive 
That's professional pricing


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

xgiovannix12;1893447 said:


> yep Im in the same situation


Same here, if you priced to include shoveling they'd hire the next guy who doesn't include it and is cheaper..........


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

I look at plowing without shoveling is like mowing without trimming. Commercial or residential doesn't make a difference. If you promise curb to curb clearing or complete driveway clearing and you can't perform that with a plow only, you need to shovel, and if you now charge more because of it I can see the argument. You have to know your limitations and price it accordingly.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

JTVLandscaping;1893658 said:


> I look at plowing without shoveling is like mowing without trimming. Commercial or residential doesn't make a difference. If you promise curb to curb clearing or complete driveway clearing and you can't perform that with a plow only, you need to shovel, and if you now charge more because of it I can see the argument. You have to know your limitations and price it accordingly.


The question would be where do you draw the line?

Just the garage doors? Front walkway? Path to the shed/barn? The list could go on of places the plow can't go that need snow removal, do you include ALL in your plowing price?


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

dstifel;1893492 said:


> In no way did I mean to knock you service I have no doubt that 98% of people on this thread do a great job you included was more meant to be that I'm jealous that you don't have to shovel haha


It's all good!


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

jrs.landscaping;1893677 said:


> The question would be where do you draw the line?
> 
> Just the garage doors? Front walkway? Path to the shed/barn? The list could go on of places the plow can't go that need snow removal, do you include ALL in your plowing price?


Exactly. If they want more, they will ask. Or, in my case, whine.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

jrs.landscaping;1893677 said:


> The question would be where do you draw the line?
> 
> Just the garage doors? Front walkway? Path to the shed/barn? The list could go on of places the plow can't go that need snow removal, do you include ALL in your plowing price?


I'll shovel the pool deck if they want to pay for it. My point wasn't that I throw all that in for free. My point was if I'm plowing the driveway, I'm not doing my job if I don't clear in front of the garage door, but I'm charging more than the $15 fly by nights. I usually sell the customer on walks and doorsteps.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

JTVLandscaping;1893703 said:


> I'll shovel the pool deck if they want to pay for it. My point wasn't that I throw all that in for free. My point was if I'm plowing the driveway, I'm not doing my job if I don't clear in front of the garage door, but I'm charging more than the $15 fly by nights. I usually sell the customer on walks and doorsteps.


Just curious, I can see how it could keep away cheap customers. Only have 1 driveway and when I gave them the option of shoveling they thought my price was too high. I will agree it should be offered as an upsell.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

Antlerart06;1893524 said:


> Think 94gt was talking a driveway not Commercial properties Stay with the subject
> 
> You price to do the drive That price should cover all the drive So if you have to get out clean with a shovel in front of the door 2' so your plow can get it You need that figure in the cost of the drive
> That's professional pricing


who are you the plowsite police. My point was that no matter what the application the idea is the same...probably went way over your head. More services, more money regardless if it's residential or commercial


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Yikes! glad I only do 3 driveways for a couple of good contacting clients.And I piss and moan about 60$ a pop!


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

I think the problem is we're all just too good. The only jobs available each year are people who are looking for a better price. It's a price driven market, Everyone who wants to pay for quality already has their contractor and doesn't even put it out to bid anymore. I know a lot of guys out there that are getting $75 for driveways that I'd do for $50, and do just as good as a job, but those people are happy, and won't ever go looking.


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

Buswell Forest;1892909 said:


> I don't have the time or back to shovel. If I priced these places $10 more from the start so I could do that, they would have gone elsewhere. My customers are all very tight with a buck. Another customer asked me to shovel his steps, and he agreed to pay for it. Fine, I can manage that. But I can't shovel 34 residential customers and still plow everyone in a timely fashion. Not even considering the 13 commercials.


I'm sorry if i came across rude, I didn't mean too, anyway we all do things differently, and like you said if you price your drives that way and your customer understands about that little bit of shoveling they have to do, no problem there, sounds like you have a nice list of snow jobs, good luck to you this season.


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

I beleive it is a regional thing. I am also from nh like buswell and NO ONE expects shoveling included in the price. Our area just knows that if you want shoveling it is extra. Most do not want it but the very few that do always ask me how much more it will cost to add shoveling


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

Jguck25;1894211 said:


> I beleive it is a regional thing. I am also from nh like buswell and NO ONE expects shoveling included in the price. Our area just knows that if you want shoveling it is extra. Most do not want it but the very few that do always ask me how much more it will cost to add shoveling


I agree with this, I dont know anyone that shovels in front of the doors or walks and doesn't charge for it and nobody expects it either. A lot of guys wont even do it around here even for extra $$, they just dont shovel. We charge a minimum of $20 to shovel on top of usually $40 and up for the driveway. That's per push, and we only shovel once but shoveling is calculated by the number of times plowed-if we plowed 2 or 3 times it means we got a lot of snow. shoveling rate is 2-3 times. No one complains....ever. For the guy to complain about 10 bucks is absurd


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

nepatsfan;1893769 said:


> who are you the plowsite police. My point was that no matter what the application the idea is the same...probably went way over your head. More services, more money regardless if it's residential or commercial


 But some areas that might be the way you do things

Cleaning up your mess isn't more service

I must to old see your point of charging extra for something that should be included in the first price


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

Antlerart06;1894314 said:


> But some areas that might be the way you do things
> 
> Cleaning up your mess isn't more service
> 
> I must to old see your point of charging extra for something that should be included in the first price


how is backdragging in front of a garage leaving a mess, or not shoveling the walk? If I pushed a pile of snow in front of the garage-that would leave a mess. Maybe it's a regional thing.

Would you say not shoveling the walks is leaving a mess? pool decks? path to oil fill? path to shed? where does it end?

Not opposed to doing anything requested. Some people want a hamburger and some want the filet....the filet costs more thats all


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## Doughboy12 (Oct 15, 2014)

nepatsfan;1895558 said:


> how is backdragging in front of a garage leaving a mess, or not shoveling the walk? If I pushed a pile of snow in front of the garage-that would leave a mess. Maybe it's a regional thing.
> 
> Would you say not shoveling the walks is leaving a mess? pool decks? path to oil fill? path to shed? where does it end?
> 
> Not opposed to doing anything requested. Some people want a hamburger and some want the filet....the filet costs more thats all


I think his point it they PAY to have their drive way plowed... I don't think he ever said anything about shoveling the walkways. 

If you told them up front you can get x feet from the garage door so be it. But if the customer questions you on it you better have a good reason (Like in the contract) why you are leaving 1 to 2 feet of his driveway full of snow. :waving:

Give it a rest already. Thumbs Up


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

nepatsfan;1895558 said:


> how is backdragging in front of a garage leaving a mess, or not shoveling the walk? If I pushed a pile of snow in front of the garage-that would leave a mess. Maybe it's a regional thing.
> 
> Would you say not shoveling the walks is leaving a mess? pool decks? path to oil fill? path to shed? where does it end?
> 
> Not opposed to doing anything requested. Some people want a hamburger and some want the filet....the filet costs more thats all


Maybe need go back read the first post I thought was about the snow left in front of the garage door

I'm talking about in front on the garage door only if the plow cant get it all and you have to use the shovel clean rest of the drive. That should be in the price of the drive and not a extra service
But once you leave that drive and go onto a walk sure that's extra service so extra $$$

Yep go and read the #1 post in this thread nothing was said about sidewalks Stay on the subject


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

I always shovel whatever I can't back drag from in front of the garage doors. It takes time but I agree with Antlerart that it's part of the service. Most people I know don't shovel but I wouldn't feel right if I didn't.


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## Golden Gates (Feb 28, 2011)

I had an old man haggle me for $2....


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## F250/XLS (Nov 23, 2014)

Lcmains1;1887732 said:


> Paid $75 per hour to plow a lot, billed the customer for 1.5 hours for the first billing (new customer) got told "the old company charged 1.25 hours" I explained that they are billed from when I leave the last place until I'm finished with the lot. I got told that it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to drive the distance I'm coming. The old company never did it that. I told them "you need to call the old company back". She was arguing over 10-15 minutes of time, whata joke


Sorry she is right ,,,,, not her problem WHERE
Your last event is ...


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## MK97 (Oct 9, 2013)

F250/XLS;1896392 said:


> Sorry she is right ,,,,, not her problem WHERE
> Your last event is ...


Agreed.

Since when can we start charging as soon as we leave the last account? I'm all for this, since I have been stuck at train crossings a few times. Can't wait to start making money as a I watch the train go by or sit in traffic. :laughing:


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## F250/XLS (Nov 23, 2014)

jpell;1892588 said:


> Good luck with that. That is going to be a mess if they decide to keep you off the property. Good luck, hopefully they will hear you out and make the right decision.


That's why i dont do per push but annually ,,, anyway
In m'y area .... Saves me trouble ... Usualy 
Go for thé annual average then once reached
Per CM or inches if You want..


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## F250/XLS (Nov 23, 2014)

nepatsfan;1893507 said:


> We offer shoveling, extra service, extra cost, just like everywhere else. We don't bid on commercial properties and just throw in shoveling on their walks etc. because it's "professional". If you want to be a "professional" you charge for the service.


Even a comm property nô need to charge for this and that and this maybe here or not .... You have comm property that dont want sidewalks done and ice management ???
Wow never seen that ,,,, on commercial anyway.you are as peofessional if not more professional by simply giving out your price including all services included... Then when asked to remove walks , corners , bits and pieces then its easier imo 
To shave a few $$ that You already prepared yourself to do 
If situation it is.... Maybe it s just me but when i m told
Your cost of redoing your roof is 5600$ ,, im happy then
You drop me with 550.$ for thé nails and if we trim
Thé overhang wich we be its another 182$
Oh yes putting up materiel on roof is 275$ and
Clearing your gutters is 176$ IF YOU PROVIDE
THÉ GARDEN HOSE otherwise it an extra
10$ thé drop section part we dont do that ,,,
Oh by thé way we are PROFESSIONAL AND CHARGE
FOR WHAT WE DO ... for sûre your "@&&&&(
Gone ... Tell me 7795.00$ tx in all done , clean .
Maybe its just me but i think that when u do commercial
They expect u to remove snow where there's snow .By the way its an example of What i almost got this summer for my
Roof i pushed it a tad but its pretty close.


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## KFX450RXC (Sep 6, 2014)

Remember the good old days when we used to talk about cheap customers in this thread?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

MK97;1896396 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Since when can we start charging as soon as we leave the last account? I'm all for this, since I have been stuck at train crossings a few times. Can't wait to start making money as a I watch the train go by or sit in traffic. :laughing:


That's why charging by the hour just causes problems! Just charge by the job,either per push or seasonal. Take any haggling out of equation.Same with salt,just charge per application,who wants to waste time arguing about how much is spread. And of course your price includes travel time! We all build that time into the set price we charge. Imagine working as a sub and being told you only get payed while you're plowing,not when driving between jobs lol.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

KFX450RXC;1896427 said:


> Remember the good old days when we used to talk about cheap customers in this thread?


Yeah, those were the days 

Now it's a thread of guys who don't shovel are hacks, makes me happy I don't do driveways cause I'd be a hack


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## MK97 (Oct 9, 2013)

leigh;1896445 said:


> That's why charging by the hour just causes problems! Just charge by the job,either per push or seasonal. Take any haggling out of equation.Same with salt,just charge per application,who wants to waste time arguing about how much is spread. And of course your price includes travel time! We all build that time into the set price we charge. Imagine working as a sub and being told you only get payed while you're plowing,not when driving between jobs lol.


I never understood charging by the hour. You get penalized as you get more efficient/better equipment. Nearly got into an argument with a storage facility manager that asked me 4 times for my hourly rate when I said hourly isn't the way to go.


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

F250/XLS;1896398 said:


> That's why i dont do per push but annually ,,, anyway
> In m'y area .... Saves me trouble ... Usualy
> Go for thé annual average then once reached
> Per CM or inches if You want..


This is what I don't get but maybe it's done differently north of the border. Around here if you give a seasonal price then that's it. Good luck trying to sell seasonal and telling them that it's going to be X amount after a certain point. Wish we could get that around here especially with the unpredictability of lake effect snow


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

peteo1;1896681 said:


> This is what I don't get but maybe it's done differently north of the border. Around here if you give a seasonal price then that's it. Good luck trying to sell seasonal and telling them that it's going to be X amount after a certain point. Wish we could get that around here especially with the unpredictability of lake effect snow


Yeah, I don't see how you can call that a seasonal contract. That's a contract that no matter what the contractor comes out on top. If it doesn't snow you're getting paid, and if snows a bunch you're getting paid even more. I don't get it.


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## F250/XLS (Nov 23, 2014)

peteo1;1896681 said:


> This is what I don't get but maybe it's done differently north of the border. Around here if you give a seasonal price then that's it. Good luck trying to sell seasonal and telling them that it's going to be X amount after a certain point. Wish we could get that around here especially with the unpredictability of lake effect snow


Up here its all like that in commercial ,,,, usually
A min of an acre ,,, we bid for 350 CM ,,, once reached
It ''s by the CM increments ,,,, now dont get me wrong
Its not on all jobs some of thé little ones its One 
Price for thé winter and thats it except for salting wich
Usualy goes by thé visit ,,,, thé ones on incréments 
Are are jobs like wall marts, Reno ,Rona etc,,,,
Those are clients who usualy ask for top service
Nô ice at all ,,,, everyone wins he forks thé cash 
And your not affraid to Die half way in on big jobs...
I should mention maybe that there was a Time compétition
Was less present and prices were high around
Here then more and more players were out there
Cutting $$ down and died leaving big jobs
Unattended then thé busy guy would get called
Up but had to pay Hugh $$$ cause we were busy elswhere
So thé top crew's at a point decided to protect
There ass as well as there clients by offering
A flat rate wich You know that Will meet
Your cost and then settle for by thé CM wich
Is still fair to thé client ....my neighbor does
A Hugh mall carry out included in 48 hrs
At 1.5 M so a few extra inches goes a long
Way both sides ...we dont have that lake effect.


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## F250/XLS (Nov 23, 2014)

John_DeereGreen;1896700 said:


> Yeah, I don't see how you can call that a seasonal contract. That's a contract that no matter what the contractor comes out on top. If it doesn't snow you're getting paid, and if snows a bunch you're getting paid even more. I don't get it.


Using thé average last 5 years snow fall on a locked
3-5 year contract its a win win for both ,,, some years
Its less then 350 cm but **** load of freezing
Rain,,, so more ice control ,,,, yes they have 
A Max load included but at lease they get good service
And we are happy to make $$ its seasonal at least
For thé first bulk signed for they wont call to cancel that storm
And get u in for thé next One at your 200$ a push 
And youll spend twice You hrs on site


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## F250/XLS (Nov 23, 2014)

Sorry i'm french i Will stop writing .


----------



## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

F250/XLS;1897184 said:


> Sorry i'm french i Will stop writing .


We all have burdens to wear but don't stop posting.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

Rick547;1897216 said:


> We all have burdens to wear but don't stop posting.


X2. Sounds like you guys up north have the contracts working in your favor.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

F250/XLS;1897184 said:


> Sorry i'm french i Will stop writing .


Don't stop posting! Remain and continue!


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## bln (Feb 12, 2004)

peteo1;1896681 said:


> This is what I don't get but maybe it's done differently north of the border. Around here if you give a seasonal price then that's it. Good luck trying to sell seasonal and telling them that it's going to be X amount after a certain point. Wish we could get that around here especially with the unpredictability of lake effect snow


So, your in business for charity?


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## peteo1 (Jul 4, 2011)

bln;1897329 said:


> So, your in business for charity?


Not at all. When we give a seasonal price it's just that, for the entire season. If it snows 130" they pay the same price as if it snows 90". There's no cap on plowing. Salting is strictly done per application. If we could put a cap at say 100" and get paid per push for anything over that I'd be all for it but you won't be in business long trying to do that here


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

Buswell Forest;1897292 said:


> Don't stop posting! Remain and continue!


I agree with Buswell and I commend you for putting forth the effort to write to us in English. I couldn't type a complete sentence in French or even translate one to English. It's nice to see a member of this site from Quebec.


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## Doughboy12 (Oct 15, 2014)

jimbo64;1897499 said:


> I agree with Buswell and I commend you for putting forth the effort to write to us in English. I couldn't type a complete sentence in French or even translate one to English. It's nice to see a member of this site from Quebec.


Pretty sure that's Google translate...or something like that...hence all the returns.
And by all means...keep playing along!

À peu près sûr que ce est Google translate ... ou quelque chose comme ça ... donc tous les retours .
Et par tous les moyens ... continuer à jouer le long !


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## bln (Feb 12, 2004)

peteo1;1897354 said:


> Not at all. When we give a seasonal price it's just that, for the entire season. If it snows 130" they pay the same price as if it snows 90". There's no cap on plowing. Salting is strictly done per application. If we could put a cap at say 100" and get paid per push for anything over that I'd be all for it but you won't be in business long trying to do that here


Ok. Salt per app. Is what I do as well on seasonal plowing contracts. Guys around here just quit when there is too much snow.


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## [email protected] (Dec 20, 2013)

way down south (NO VA) i can't get anyone to commit to a seasonal. we are feast of famine around here. the last one I tried I even offered a discount if snow was below 20" but no dice!


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

jimbo64;1897499 said:


> I agree with Buswell and I commend you for putting forth the effort to write to us in English. I couldn't type a complete sentence in French or even translate one to English. It's nice to see a member of this site from Quebec.


This!!! I don't know a single word of french. I'm always looking for a different perspective.


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## F250/XLS (Nov 23, 2014)

bln;1897563 said:


> Ok. Salt per app. Is what I do as well on seasonal plowing contracts. Guys around here just quit when there is too much snow.


 There is nô laws on how to formulate a 
Contract , us on big commercial sites
Its the way we all do it .I suppose it depends
On thé région .... Im on thé Ontario border
In QC and we do seasonal at around 350 cm and use
Maximum weight of abrasif for ice control then once
Those numbers are reached they pay the
Amount of $$ that was agreed on the contract by
The centimeter .... Like You said when it was done
By thé push contractor would not go out if thé storm
Was to big ... The clients would ne stuck to call
Another contractor ans pay big $$$ .


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## F250/XLS (Nov 23, 2014)

peteo1;1896681 said:


> This is what I don't get but maybe it's done differently north of the border. Around here if you give a seasonal price then that's it. Good luck trying to sell seasonal and telling them that it's going to be X amount after a certain point. Wish we could get that around here especially with the unpredictability of lake effect snow


We dont need luck,,,, its how we've been doing
For thé past 15 years... On top of that we also
Get thé clients to sign for 3 or 5 years with
1.5 to 2.5 % raise annually to cover cost
Of living. Now thé schools ... Those are done
Différent . They are on a fix price and they
Want thé full package and they are cheap
They always take thé cheapest ..


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

we have seasonals with caps too


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## F250/XLS (Nov 23, 2014)

Freshwater;1897609 said:


> This!!! I don't know a single word of french. I'm always looking for a different perspective.


Thank You guys i Will make an additional effort
when putting together my sentences so You
You can understand a little better my opinions.
I'm new to this site and already learned a lot
of good things from you guy's ,that will help me in the futur.
Feel free to correct me if needed on some issues
about some terms that could help futur communication 
between us .


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## Tom c. (Nov 23, 2005)

MatthewG;1887592 said:


> First time customer, first storm, plus only 2" accumulated from the official 5.1" due to the warm ground.
> 
> I was trying to make the guy feel good, and I was going to ask to put my 3'x2' yard sign on his property by the road.
> 
> When he started freaking I knew it was a doomed deal so I cut out the other $100, but at that point it was for nothing.


No offense but how can you charge for plowing snow that was supposed to be there? I very seldom ever discount work that was agreed to be done for an agreed upon amount. I carry a tape measure and check snow amounts at the time I am plowing. With insurance amounts what they are1500-2k a season it takes a while to get into a profit area with repairs etc!! I won't drop a blade on a driveway for less than 40-50. If you have a contract with a strip store owner and you must have ins. and overhead. Sorry just my .02


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

Jguck25;1894211 said:


> I beleive it is a regional thing. I am also from nh like buswell and NO ONE expects shoveling included in the price. Our area just knows that if you want shoveling it is extra. Most do not want it but the very few that do always ask me how much more it will cost to add shoveling


I totally agree. Shoveling in front of the garage doors is not something that is wanted here. To clarify, it not wanted for the price increase. I can plow 6-7 driveways an hour. 10 min per drive. $40 average. It will take 5 minutes to shovel (3-4 car garages on my route) but you can't charge $20. Nobody will take that. So you don't even offer. I make more money in the truck than I could with a shovel.

Therefore I plow in my nikes and tee shirt.


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

I have been plowing this customer for 10 years with zero problems. First storm was T-Day and I showed up in the middle of the night and found the driveway plowed but real crappy. Trees were bent over and they didn't get anywhere close to the edge so I cleaned everything up went on my way. I got an email 2 days later saying the lawn was destroyed off the back side of the driveway. Now in 10 years I never harmed a blade of grass but I do push snow 30 feet into the back yard.

What happened was some idiot did the wrong house and really messed up my clients lawn. Luckily my track record has been stellar and they understood what happened. If they ask me I will repair the turf because they have been awesome clients for 10 years.


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## onemanband (Nov 23, 2014)

M&M;1898238 said:


> I have been plowing this customer for 10 years with zero problems. First storm was T-Day and I showed up in the middle of the night and found the driveway plowed but real crappy. Trees were bent over and they didn't get anywhere close to the edge so I cleaned everything up went on my way. I got an email 2 days later saying the lawn was destroyed off the back side of the driveway. Now in 10 years I never harmed a blade of grass but I do push snow 30 feet into the back yard.
> 
> What happened was some idiot did the wrong house and really messed up my clients lawn. Luckily my track record has been stellar and they understood what happened. If they ask me I will repair the turf because they have been awesome clients for 10 years.


Similar situation, for the first time in my life I can say. Thank goodness for smart phones and the Camera option. Customer had a real attitude. Sent them the pictures of what someone else did. All was well with the world after that.


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## andersman02 (May 5, 2012)

Funny, very simular thing happened. Someone plowed one of our new drives. Ive done it once before this storm. For this storm it was just under our 1" trigger and with warm temps coming, we did not go out. Got a message the next day from the new customer, says we need to come back and finish the job, the WHOLE driveway needs to be done. I called her and talked to find our that someone came in and did 1 pass down the middle. This is a 3 car wide, tapered to 1 car wide and about 3 deep. I just chuckled and said we did not go out last night due to the warm weather approaching and being under trigger.

She was so pissed/ and confused at first because the first time I did the drive, it was done perfect without stakes, edge to edge even with the tapered areas. Now there was only 1 strip done. Before I talked to her she also said "you guys did such a good job the first time and not its just terrible!" Once she understood we didn't even go out and it must have been someone doing the wrong house. She laughed and all was good.

Not a complaint but something that im sure has happened to some of you!


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## boss75 (Nov 6, 2012)

peteo1;1888761 said:


> Had a woman hire me to plow her driveway. Paid in full for the season, signed contract, the whole deal. Not 24 hours later she calls to tell me her husband bought a snowblower and she would like to cancel. I should have retained 10% just for the aggravation


What aggravation is it to send the check back, cost of a stamp. You never did any work, did you ever think that by being a 'nice person" she could possibly recommend you to here friends and family for other jobs.


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## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

Love this thread! 

What ever happened to the concept that the customer is always right?


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Rick547;1898579 said:


> Love this thread!
> 
> What ever happened to the concept that the customer is always right?


Doesn't apply when the customer is a shrew with less mechanical knowledge than a canadian goose.


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## jimbo64 (Oct 20, 2011)

Buswell Forest;1898594 said:


> Doesn't apply when the customer is a shrew with less mechanical knowledge than a canadian goose.


Don't pick on the Canadian or you will be reported to the ACLU tymusic


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## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

Buswell Forest;1898594 said:


> Doesn't apply when the customer is a shrew with less mechanical knowledge than a canadian goose.


Had to deal with those types all my professional life. It can be a hair pulling experience to say the least but in the end they are still your customer. Then again, I still love these war stories. Thumbs Up


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## cdmckane (Oct 14, 2014)

My brother in law lives in a trailer park and their "plow guy" never showed up when we got over a foot of snow this week. Apparently his tractor wouldn't start. The owner called me to see if I'd come over and clean it up. I told him, "Sure thing. $150/hr and it should take me 1.5-2 hours to get it done if everything goes right". After he stuttered and stammered for a minute, he says "My guy does it for 20 bucks" Apparently, I was supposed to break off of my route and go plow his place out for a case of beer? Um, not only NO, but f8ck NO!

http://www.findlotsize.com?e=42.589211,-76.603715:0:Algerine Rd Lansing, NY:measure:0


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

boss75;1898522 said:


> What aggravation is it to send the check back, cost of a stamp. You never did any work, did you ever think that by being a 'nice person" she could possibly recommend you to here friends and family for other jobs.


Just the person I'd want referring me business


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## ajman21 (Oct 30, 2009)

Few years back i had a regular to ask me to start plowing his mothers drive as his dad had passed that summer. I gave him a quote he said do it, send the invoices to him and he would give them to her to pay. I plow her drive for couple months she pays each visit. Invites me in for cocco and to warm up. Everything is great. First week of February her daughter moves in after getting a divorce. I come to plow a few events and she doesn't come out any more. I go up an knock on the door the daughter comes out tells me to invoice them directly. I say sure if they prefer that i will. Couple more little two inch events go by i plow the first. The second event i get there and the drive looks like someone shoveled it out (poorly), no one answers the door so i go on with other accounts. Still have not seen the two i previously invoiced per the daughters request. End of February i receive a check for the plows I'm owed and a note telling me that my services on the last event were unsatisfactory as i had not plowed, therefore they no longer desired my services. I called the son whom was still my customer and asked him what gives. He apologies for everything. His sister had convinced the mother that he was trying to milk his mother for her money and i was some how in on it. The mother was in the begining stages of dementia, and the sister had moved in against the brothers wishes and was now forcably taking over all the mothers care. He said he would go right over and straighten it all out. I don't here from him till the begining of next season. He informes me that his sister and he got in a fight bout who was gunna take care of mom. She slapped a restraining order on him and there was legal action being taken. I got paid but felt realy bad for the guy.


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## MK97 (Oct 9, 2013)

ajman21;1899376 said:


> Few years back i had a regular to ask me to start plowing his mothers drive as his dad had passed that summer. I gave him a quote he said do it, send the invoices to him and he would give them to her to pay. I plow her drive for couple months she pays each visit. Invites me in for cocco and to warm up. Everything is great. First week of February her daughter moves in after getting a divorce. I come to plow a few events and she doesn't come out any more. I go up an knock on the door the daughter comes out tells me to invoice them directly. I say sure if they prefer that i will. Couple more little two inch events go by i plow the first. The second event i get there and the drive looks like someone shoveled it out (poorly), no one answers the door so i go on with other accounts. Still have not seen the two i previously invoiced per the daughters request. End of February i receive a check for the plows I'm owed and a note telling me that my services on the last event were unsatisfactory as i had not plowed, therefore they no longer desired my services. I called the son whom was still my customer and asked him what gives. He apologies for everything. His sister had convinced the mother that he was trying to milk his mother for her money and i was some how in on it. The mother was in the begining stages of dementia, and the sister had moved in against the brothers wishes and was now forcably taking over all the mothers care. He said he would go right over and straighten it all out. I don't here from him till the begining of next season. He informes me that his sister and he got in a fight bout who was gunna take care of mom. She slapped a restraining order on him and there was legal action being taken. I got paid but felt realy bad for the guy.


This is exactly why I stick to commercial. I've had small issues but family drama never interferes with business.


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## boss75 (Nov 6, 2012)

jrs.landscaping;1899119 said:


> Just the person I'd want referring me business


Just because you have trouble sending back a check less your deduction for doing absolutely not a damn thing except opening their envelope from a customer who decided to try and possibly save some money, they could possibly have some type of financial hardship that you are unaware of, or maybe something else. Did you ever stop and think that maybe it won't work out as they thought and may call you back next season, just because you think this customer is a jackass, don't think all of their friends are the same, I'm through tring to educate you on operating an ethical business.


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## F250/XLS (Nov 23, 2014)

There you go , another example why i don t do per push,,,,, but annually 
For residential and commercial.They pay in October for 350 CM then by increments after that.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

boss75;1899387 said:


> Just because you have trouble sending back a check less your deduction for doing absolutely not a damn thing except opening their envelope from a customer who decided to try and possibly save some money, they could possibly have some type of financial hardship that you are unaware of, or maybe something else. Did you ever stop and think that maybe it won't work out as they thought and may call you back next season, just because you think this customer is a jackass, don't think all of their friends are the same, I'm through tring to educate you on operating an ethical business.


The point is not returning the check, the point is you take on accounts until the trucks route is full. The customer dumps you this far into the season it will be hard to replace them after you've turned down other potential customers because the route was full.

On the ethics side, I would have returned the check. Though if a customer did this they would go to the back of the list if they called the following season.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

"OK, so, I only want you to plow shan I ask fr it, OK? I can handle anything under 6 inches."

Um...OK, but I make the call if it needs to be done...can't abuse my truck...also, you will be done last. Last, and after the storm is done. $25. 

"Oh, wow, $25? I guess...ok"."

4 inches and 1/4 inches crust over night......

"OMG! WHERE ARE YOU!!!!??? I NEED THIS DONE RIGHT NOW!!!!!! THIS INSTANT!!!! YOU SAID YOU WOULD BE RIGHT HERE!!!!!"

NO, that is not what I said. But I am on my way, be about 25 minutes.

"More whine cry pissy moan"

Whatever....on my way.

"This needs sand, I have a plumber coming at 9am!!! How much for sand???"

$25.

"Oh wow! I thought it would be less than that!!!!! OK just this ONE TIME I will pay that much..get here now!!!!!!"

Let me give you the number of a guy I know....he is closer, he can do you better. He has a sweet 1984 F150 with a cherry bomb muffler...


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

One of the chains of banks we do has become quite the pain in the "but". One bank started with 5 places for us to pile snow 2 years ago and this year cut it back to 2 places. I warned them that with only 2 places to pile snow that the snow piles would get huge and if they cut back my storage then I can't honor the part of the contract that states piles are to be kept under 6 ft in height (anything over 6ft is hauled away by us at our cost). They agree to this. So we did it. So I get a phone call last week that the piles are too high and they expect me to haul it away.....for free!!! I politely inform them (and refer back to emails) that my hauling clause is null and void when they cut back my snow storage area. I tell them they can pay for the hauling or I can start using the other pre determined snow storage areas, their choice. Haven't heard back yet.... THEN

At another branch I went to do the parking lot and there is a vehicle left after hours right in front of the only place I am allowed to put the snow. No big deal I shovel by hand the 10 stalls for the employee parking and leave the rest until said vehicle is moved. Of course I take pictures and email the management company about it too. Monday morning I get a email saying I didn't do the job properly... I refer back to the email I sent on the weekend and I am told that isn't their problem. I politely suggest if they would like I will plow all snow onto the vehicle. Then I get told they are calling the town to report me for a large pile of snow left on the street.....only one problem, the pile in question was put there by the TOWN. I contact the management company to tell them I have had enough of this and they tell me this particular manager is impossible to deal with and they ask me to please not quit as I am the longest plow company to have lasted plowing this branch.


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## boss75 (Nov 6, 2012)

jrs.landscaping;1899482 said:


> The point is not returning the check, the point is you take on accounts until the trucks route is full. The customer dumps you this far into the season it will be hard to replace them after you've turned down other potential customers because the route was full.
> 
> On the ethics side, I would have returned the check. Though if a customer did this they would go to the back of the list if they called the following season.


Lighten up! It's one residential account, so you have an extra 10 minutes left over out of your busy schedule. Its not like you lost the Mall of America account.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

buckwheat_la;1922101 said:


> One of the chains of banks we do has become quite the pain in the "but". One bank started with 5 places for us to pile snow 2 years ago and this year cut it back to 2 places. I warned them that with only 2 places to pile snow that the snow piles would get huge and if they cut back my storage then I can't honor the part of the contract that states piles are to be kept under 6 ft in height (anything over 6ft is hauled away by us at our cost). They agree to this. So we did it. So I get a phone call last week that the piles are too high and they expect me to haul it away.....for free!!! I politely inform them (and refer back to emails) that my hauling clause is null and void when they cut back my snow storage area. I tell them they can pay for the hauling or I can start using the other pre determined snow storage areas, their choice. Haven't heard back yet.... THEN
> 
> At another branch I went to do the parking lot and there is a vehicle left after hours right in front of the only place I am allowed to put the snow. No big deal I shovel by hand the 10 stalls for the employee parking and leave the rest until said vehicle is moved. Of course I take pictures and email the management company about it too. Monday morning I get a email saying I didn't do the job properly... I refer back to the email I sent on the weekend and I am told that isn't their problem. I politely suggest if they would like I will plow all snow onto the vehicle. Then I get told they are calling the town to report me for a large pile of snow left on the street.....only one problem, the pile in question was put there by the TOWN. I contact the management company to tell them I have had enough of this and they tell me this particular manager is impossible to deal with and they ask me to please not quit as I am the longest plow company to have lasted plowing this branch.


I believe I would be telling the PM that ONLY they can call or contact you and that you no longer will be dealing with the onsite managers. All on sight managers are to go through the PM to you. If that doesn't work, then yes, they can find someone else to handle the account. What a PITA.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

boss75;1922328 said:


> Lighten up! It's one residential account, so you have an extra 10 minutes left over out of your busy schedule. Its not like you lost the Mall of America account.


Depends on the area, we plow one residential and it takes my driver an hour and change to plow. If you have a bunch of $10 driveways it might not matter but when I got out of residential my average per push price was $60.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Just this second dropped a cheapskate! He doesn't even know yet. Not telling him until he pays up his balance. Apparently, plowing 4 inches of crust covered snow is "abusing" him.This is for his 500k lake front home, but he lives in a very upscale home just south of here, and 30 bucks is killing him. Bye bye dooshnozzle!


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Buswell Forest;1958383 said:


> Just this second dropped a cheapskate! He doesn't even know yet. Not telling him until he pays up his balance. Apparently, plowing 4 inches of crust covered snow is "abusing" him.This is for his 500k lake front home, but he lives in a very upscale home just south of here, and 30 bucks is killing him. Bye bye dooshnozzle!


Good for you. Learned a new name- DOOSHNOZZLE. Never heard that term before, but I like it. LMAO.


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