# I'm officialy out of the business.



## 89Comanche (Jan 10, 2011)

Thought I would share with you guys
After 7 years in this business I'm out, although this winter has given us a ton of work, ranging from small lots, streets and driveways the income is not enough to keep us above water. With this semi-failing economy nobody is willing to pay what they used to which has led to every lowballer in town snatching up our contracts, and leaving us to fight it out over small jobs. After going through the budget I simply can not continue to pay my workers their wadges, nor can I continue the upkeep of our equipment. We will be trying to downsize and finish out the season, but I already know this will leave us spread to thin.

The contributing factors to our demise...
*Random spike in fuel mid winter
*Every college kid in the area wanting work/then calling out when we went out to early. (My fault but everybody deserves a chance)
*LOWBALLERS LOWBALLERS LOWBALLERS LOWBALLERS


/Rant

Matt

PS, If any of the lowballers who stole my work are reading this thread, Thanks for taking food from my workers and my families mouths and running us out of business. Have fun out there cleaning up the lots for $120 a storm


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## fiveoboy01 (Aug 18, 2006)

Other companies are probably getting along and having to deal with the same things you are. How are they still in business?

It's likely that the failure of your business is your fault, and no one else's.


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## 89Comanche (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks, I needed that slap in the face. Obviously everything is my fault!


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

Im sorry to hear that comanche


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## forbidden (Dec 22, 2010)

If you can't be there when it's bad, how can you be there when you are good? Why not drop some of the expenses and concentrate on the business that is profitable.


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## ACA L&L (Jan 5, 2007)

tough call, lowballers, dont pay taxes, have insurance, do shotty work, come in take the contracts make a few bucks.......they dont have the overhead of a business that is legit. taxes, insurance, workers comp. generally My definition of a scumbag bottom feeder, do it right, and be proud..........theres enuff work for everyone, everyone who takes the time to make themselves a legitamate company...tuff to swallow commanche, wish i could help ya out.


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## rcr4w (Jan 21, 2011)

Well I for one am thankfull of the lowballing bottom feeders which you speak of. Thanks to them and their shotty work I basicly backed into having a winter business right here in town. Usually we just do underground utility work and sit around doing nothing in the worst part of winter. 
So thanks lowballing scumbags for doing really crappy work and letting us take care of your disatisfied customers now not only do I have something to do but I also get to spend a crap load more money on my dirt late models.
Now if I could only find a way to get rid of all the lowballing scumbag utility contractors around here life would be great! 
On a serious note that is a bum deal and a story being told all to often I hope you figure out a way to bounce back I think we all have to find a way through rough times at some point.


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## buddy4781 (Oct 24, 2010)

89Comanche;1231877 said:


> Thanks, I needed that slap in the face. Obviously everything is my fault!


Ok Matt, It's time to take a DEEP BREATH. Sometimes it's better off to be smaller, just doing the work that you can handle. Too often in our quest for more we take on too much and don't see that we are not ready for or capable of the additional responsiblity. Only do work that makes you money. Subs or emplyees are an expence that you don't make much money on or need to charge more to be profitable. Chances are that you will make more by being smaller and getting rid of your help. You seem to have a passion for others and that's good, but you have to do what is best for your family. Understand that it's just business, not personal. I lost a business because I grew too big too fast and found myself in your shoes. Now it's just me and a ride along to help with the heavy lifting. If it were'nt for the heart condition I would be doing this solo. I wish you the best and ask you to chin up and revisit you situation.

Buddy


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## fiveoboy01 (Aug 18, 2006)

89Comanche;1231877 said:


> Thanks, I needed that slap in the face. Obviously everything is my fault!


Wasn't meant as a slap in the face.

Of course not everything is your fault and some things are just not in your control, but on the other side of the coin, lots of things are... in the end your business will only go where you steer it.


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## Jacobsmovinsnow (Jan 12, 2011)

Rants are allways good. I quit in the before the winter of 05 06 , thought I was done with the biz for good. Ran tractor trailer through your fine country,ussmileyflagThumbs Up that winter, however some of my bigger former contracts wanted me back, here I am now with more work and equipment than then. Just keep mulling it over, conduct a accurate measurement of time spent on each job. Tell your guys to record travel time and actual time on the lots, dont round off. If its 23 minutes its 23 minutes not 25 or 30. Record amount of snowfall on that push. Then sit down and figure out what y ou are making hourly. You might of been there , done that but this is just my .02 cents worth.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

89Comanche;1231860 said:


> The contributing factors to our demise...
> *Random spike in fuel mid winter
> *Every college kid in the area wanting work/then calling out when we went out to early. (My fault but everybody deserves a chance)
> *LOWBALLERS LOWBALLERS LOWBALLERS LOWBALLERS


Sounds like every other winter to me.

You should have a cancellation policy of 30 days notice or so. Everyone i talk to understands that i'm reserving time and equipment for them so i expect them to reserve snow for me.

You need to sit down and redo your business model. If the problem is that people are bailing on you for a lower price, then include something in the contract to keep people from doing that.

Follow up with the people that left you after a couple storms and see if their happy and ask a lot of questions and figure out what made them leave you.

on a side-note, do you think it's possible that not everyone that left you signed on with a "lowballer"? Perhaps some signed on with legit companies that carry the same expenses as you....


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## bhmjwp (Dec 12, 2005)

I am not sure how big you are -but hang in there and re group for next year. Several years ago, we made the decision that all accts would be signed by Oct 15-chemical and supplies bought-routes assigned. We run 4 trucks and a sidewalk crew. We adjust based upon accts-do not take on anything the rest of the season, and give top notch service. We get desperate calls, and if I have interest in the acct I will bail them out after the storm, talk with the customer about a contract for next season, give the pricing and performance information and let them know the deadline date and the reasons why. I have picked up some great accounts over the years.

Don't allow someone else's pricing structure destroy were business plan. Be in it for the long haul. Do not hesitate to "Just Say NO ! "


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

bhmjwp;1232047 said:


> and give top notch service. We get desperate calls, and if I have interest in the acct I will bail them out after the storm, talk with the customer about a contract for next season, give the pricing and performance information and let them know the deadline date and the reasons why. I have picked up some great accounts over the years. "


Yup! It doesnt take doing much extra to really stand out. If i have extra time i may clear in front of someone mailbox, or get out and shovel in front of their garage doors (some poeple do that anyways).

The point is i'd always rather do a little more work and charge someone my normal rate than, do the normal amount of work and give them a deal.

Sometimes around here some people on the route get over the trigger some people under. So we do the route and the people that were under we wont charge, but we'll plow it anyways. We're there anyways, it's not much trouble, trucks dont mind, and it's just something extra people appreciate.

Sometimes if i'm driving the right truck, and have extra sand i'll leave free sand for people.

I have one customer who has a 20 yrd double wide driveway. They park two cars ass to face on one side. I come and plow it, go do two other driveways, and on my way back, if they've moved their cars to the other side i stop and plow the other side. Or if i'm out and about and see the othr side is open i'll stop and plow it. They've come to know that if they stay off the snow sometimes it will get plowed up when they dont expect it.

If someone needs to get out and gives me far enough notice usually it's no trouble to schedule around it.

I tell people that if they want something from me they need to tell me, and with plenty of notice for me to get it done- if i can. I explain to them that i i'd rather know before they expected it to be done and not after when they're already disappointed. If i tell them i can't do it, then they have enough time to make other arrangements too,

People that ask for extra stuff i do as little extra as i can get away with, then when they stop asking i'll start doing some extra stuff for them on my schedule when i don't mind. They usually get the clue that they fare better when they let me do my thing.

Paying a reasonable rate to me probably isn't so bad because they still think they're coming out ahead, and after all that's really what it's all about when people go to the lowballers.

every way you can differentiate yourself from lowballer, that isn't price, is a plus for you.


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## mnlefty (Sep 17, 2009)

There are multiple angles to look at here... I can't deny that the lowballers certainly can significantly hurt total income for the season and it is darn frustrating, but there are a number of factors that can't be blamed on the lowballers as well.

-If the remaining income is not enough to sustain current employees and equipment then those changes should have been made before the season started.

-If your labor pool is unreliable, that's not a lowballer issue.

-If a spike in fuel prices kills any profitability then your margins are too thin.

The bottom line is each job has to be profitable on it's own merits, and you can't be reliant on what you had in the past to sustain what you want/need for the future. It sucks to lose work to the lowballers, but if you try to compete with them on their $$ terms and it doesn't work out you can't blame them for your own losses. Not trying to be a dik about it, because the lowballer thing is real, but you have to deal with the changes and adapt your own business in ways that can maintain a profit.


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## ppandr (Dec 16, 2004)

Every year I mull over selling my stuff and going back to one truck doing resi's and small commercials. In my area here in north/central NJ I have a dedicated group of customers who have been with me for 10 years now. There have been LOWBALLERS who have come in and under cut me taking away those customers that are solely focused on price, but are those your good customers? For every account I have lost I've gained another through referrals for good customers. Someday soon I will "retire" to 30-40 resi's and relax.....Good luck


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## ScnicExcellence (Jun 9, 2008)

go smaller and work your way back up. if you make it through the tuff times you will be golden in the good times, just remember that when the good times come back to start saving for the bad times.


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## Eyesell (Nov 7, 2003)

Sounds like you need some business help as we've all gone through the same thing. You can't point your finger at two things, gas and low-ballers, or at least if you chose you can and say this is why I have to close the front door.

But the reality is you have to figure out how to remorf ( spelling ) yourself, if that point and time you decide to throw in the towel than go for it. But as the one guy said before, when businesses go out, they really need to look in the mirror and ask "what could I have done differently " ?

Just my .02 cents...


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## watatrp (Jan 10, 2001)

89Comanche;1231860 said:


> Thought I would share with you guys
> 
> PS, If any of the lowballers who stole my work are reading this thread, Thanks for taking food from my workers and my families mouths and running us out of business. Have fun out there cleaning up the lots for $120 a storm


I detect some frustrations. Some operations are just more efficient than others. It's awful hard of you to think that someone who operates within a set of guidelines that allow them to be profitable might be a lowballer. There are those that operate above the table, paying taxes, paying for insurance, etc. Those people deserve to eat and run their business too.


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## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

good luck in whatever you do


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## 89Comanche (Jan 10, 2011)

So I will admit last night I was a bit pissy. I admit I am to blame for our downfall, and that I am over reacting to the lowballers who have taken a great deal of our work. This summer I am going to re-group, sell off what is not needed and make a large attempt to downsize to the point were we can be comfortable.


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## sweetk30 (Sep 3, 2006)

BIG is not always better payup


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

89Comanche;1232557 said:


> So I will admit last night I was a bit pissy. I admit I am to blame for our downfall, and that I am over reacting to the lowballers who have taken a great deal of our work. This summer I am going to re-group, sell off what is not needed and make a large attempt to downsize to the point were we can be comfortable.


clearly, you needed a snickers.


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## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

89Comanche;1232557 said:


> So I will admit last night I was a bit pissy. I admit I am to blame for our downfall, and that I am over reacting to the lowballers who have taken a great deal of our work. This summer I am going to re-group, sell off what is not needed and make a large attempt to downsize to the point were we can be comfortable.


In these times only the strong will survive. Dont worry about these lowballers. They will either fail completely or they will wake up real quick and realize that they are way to low on pricing. If the latter happens thats a good sign as they indeed do realize what it takes to get the job done and these guys most of the time have good intentions but bad business mindset. Its comes with experience so over time they should get it together. If not they will be out also.

Best thing I can tell ya is YOU HAVE TO ADAPT. A business model you had 2 years ago is NOT going to work today. Trust me I know. Im in the worst industry there is for hacks and lowballers.....construction. And to add to that we mainly do custom work which is hard to find in a good economy. The thing Ive learned though is you must adapt to the ever changing economy. You need to lower your prices and do the same quality but you have to make up for it in quantity. So essentially you have to work harder but know that it WILL pay off in the long run. You have to sell harder also. Your number one concern should be CUSTOMER SERVICE. This goes a loooong way for most....not all but most. You have to think outside the box nowadays. Say you have a small amount of customers that you have had for awhile. Take them all out for dinner or to a sporting event or something. Dont just send gift cards to a restaurant. Thats not personal enough. You have to gain there respect and once thats happened chances are they wont even be searching for other bids. Not always but any inside help you have is good for retention. Think in terms of pleasing them.

Yes I know it sucks lowering prices but its something that has to be done sometimes. Im not saying cut them in half or anything even remotely near that but maybe find ways of making your service cheaper. Areas to look into are efficiency (A HUGE MUST), materials costs, and labor of course. You have to be running as efficient as possible in order to make the best profit. We cant tell you how to do these things as its your company and you know whats best for it and whats efficient for you may not be for another person. Trial and error.

If it does come down to getting out (which it may very well be) then you should have no bad feelings if you can honestly say you gave it 110%. Some things are meant to be that way. Look at all the companies that started only to close and start again over and over before they became successful. Anything is possible its just how much do you want to chase that dream. Alot dont want to if they have to work hard at it. Thats what separates the companies that last forever and the ones that last a few years. I can tell yo uthis though.....if you are good at what you do and you can stick out this bad economy you will be just fine later on. Most lowballers that do this wont stick around very long. Also most companies wont want to go through the hassle of finding new crews every year either. Repeat business is EVERYTHING. I know this also as I havent advertised in 7 years for construction. All word of mouth and repeats.

So sit back relax for a week or two to clear your head then come back to this thread and start figuring out your company's future. Its hard but how much do you want it???? How many depend on you????? Are you doing it for them or for you???? Is your heart still in it and if not could it still be?????

Good Luck Buddy.


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## IPLOWSNO (Oct 11, 2008)

the guy i unfortunately work for, yea it's my fault as i said yes to work for him, well he's a lowballer to his work force and his own company,

during the interview he went from me plowing snow to working on his house,i am a very good carpenter and am good enough to make enough to spread it out over 12 months and actually only work for 6 months to make it, so he asks me if i wanted to work on his house, he said i have a retired guy doing it for 15 an hour, i immedieately said nope i make more than that now, even when i am sitting home.

if i need carpentry work all i have todo is make a call and i am working, but i am kinda burnedout on it and like doing high end work, so insteadof sitting around i figured i would plow snow.

this is a decision i am regretting now though, but due to my work ethics i have a hard time quitting and screwing someone over. however everyday i plow it is getting easier to quit,

every piece of equipment he has is junk, i am not kidding i am so jealous of some of you guys equipment you are truly a class act, this guy not so much,

he doesn't have a truck that isn't a pos with 187,000 on it and every idiot light that comes on instantly if it starts at all, i am not kidding its that bad, he conducts himself as alegit company tryingtoenforce no smoking policys and i can tell ya i have eaten more diesel exhaust than smoke from a cigarette.

just the other night i had a truck that was low on oil it was pos dodge as they all are, it was only a gallon, no**** a gallon wtf, 2 hours later i check it again and it was another gallon.

the steering on all of them is down right scary, and to top it off he drives a hummer, who does that? that right there should of told me to say no.you would think for theprice he paid for that he would of bought 2 new plow trucks and handed them down and get a new one every two years,he is clearly only thinking of himself. and the fact he has cheap labor so that maybe why he buys junk.

but i have my last kid and she is being recruited by colleges for her athletic abilities and i will do what i have to , to make that happen for her. i figured plowing would be less physically demanding,wrestling a steering wheel that leaks p/s fluid like its free is proving other wise 


what would i do downsize to a couple guys and focus on service. i find people will pay if you are very good at what you do, you just have to be able to do it. i see this guy either having to replace his fleet or keep hiring idiots like me and fixing the crap he has.

hang in there op, keep telling yourself when the going gets tough the tough gets going, it's alot of work not only the physical aspect but the business side also, i know to well , youhave tobegood at the biz side first and foremost every cent should be accounted for do that and you will see that there is money to be made you just have to be willing to do it all,

as hard as it is your guys come first and then you do and it will come together but it doesn't happen overnight, goodluck


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## watatrp (Jan 10, 2001)

You think the plowing side is competitive, you should see the lawncare side. There is much less cost for someone to buy a pushmower and a weedeater. My rates are what they were three years ago. What I'm waiting for is for everyone who is unemployed to go back to work so I can get back to business. That's where a lot of the competition is coming from. You don't really think the lowballers like getting up that early and working that hard do you?


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## buddy4781 (Oct 24, 2010)

Congratulations! Now grab those bootstraps and pull real hard. You're going to be OK.


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## KEC Maintaince (Jan 1, 2011)

commanche
now pick your self up wipe your eyes, put your pants back on and strap those boots in and lets get goin.
ok so you made some mistakes along the way and are pissed. 
some guys came in and low bid you so what. 
some times we are our own worst enemy if you know what i mean.
do not surrender pull back and re group. 
use this as a learning experience 
if fuel prices are killing you maybe time to get more fuel efficient equipment sell off the old stock and look what you can get to do by yourself.
sometimes smaller is better you will fly under every one elses radar and probley be more profitable doing it more efficient then going large.


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## snowman5313 (Jun 19, 2009)

89 words of advice...figure out what works for you and do it. just remember make sure your happy doing it.


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## 89Comanche (Jan 10, 2011)

I took today to look over what I need to improve on and what ways I can do it. It is plain to see I have gotten to big to fast which has led to me spreading my guys all over the place, and turning profit into the bare bones of what I need to survive. Our equipment needs updating, 12-13 year old trucks cannot keep up, the reliability of all my trucks has dropped this season, and the 6mpg they get is not giving us any room to yield a profit. Our Skid Steer has greatly dropped off this year, it seems we are spending more on it then it is bringing in. Our crew is a great bunch of guys they are all working their butts off, but I fear there is just to many of us out there then jobs. Unfortunately I was takin for a run around with the college/high school kids I added as shovels/blowers. I hate to be this guy but these kids don't have the work ethic to survive in this business, Driving all over creation to find them, slacking off when not supervised, not showing/calling out when we would head out in the early hours, hell I had one instance of a kid showing up still drunk from the night before, his excuse was he didn't realize it was going to snow that day. UGH rant rant rant
As soon as the season is over I am unfortunately going to have to drop several employees, down size my fleet, properly repair/replace my trucks, and unfortunately drop some accounts for next season.


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## Jacobsmovinsnow (Jan 12, 2011)

You got lots of good advice , glad to hear your gonna give it another shot. Remember even if you lose some contracts " there will be times your competitors will be your best advertisement" If you gave quality work your competitors will have to be at least at that mark all the time. Good Luck.


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## KEC Maintaince (Jan 1, 2011)

i would not be too quick on getting rid of accounts just yet.
break it down on a map and see where you stand. 
getting more efficient equipment will leave you time to still service those accounts the proper way. 
i have also found out just because some one says they can use a shovel does not mean they know how to shovel. 
show the workers who are slowing you down the proper way to do things . you might have to weed a few out but the rest will take up the slack.
good luck


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## buddy4781 (Oct 24, 2010)

something to think about. If your customers have been receiving bad service you need to address that with them personally. Get rid of your dead wood NOW, don't wait, it will only cause you more headaches. let your customers see you addressing the issues. They will see it as proactive even though it is reactive. then make sure that you do what you tell your customer you are doing.

We grew alot this year and I had to address our weakness that I didn't plan on. our customers were undrestanding and were thankful for the one on one. It takes some gutts to set infront of your customer and tell them "I dropped the ball and here is what I am doing about it".

wish you well 
Buddy


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## highmark1 (Jan 19, 2005)

Me and commanche will wait all the lowballers out. I will do it in Maui on a surf board. I didn't have to quit but I did because of all the cheap bastards who hire the lowballers for $40/hr or $1/minute crap. At least I can say that they were gettin $100/hr service. Happy plowing to all, glad to be out


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## bow2no1 (Oct 6, 2008)

ACA L&L;1231891 said:


> tough call, lowballers, dont pay taxes, have insurance, do shotty work, come in take the contracts make a few bucks.......they dont have the overhead of a business that is legit. taxes, insurance, workers comp. generally My definition of a scumbag bottom feeder, do it right, and be proud..........theres enuff work for everyone, everyone who takes the time to make themselves a legitamate company...tuff to swallow commanche, wish i could help ya out.


thats right! i have mentioned several times to just my farther and people close to me about reporting people who do not fallow laws. all i do is get show down....and they say things like u don't want to do that that will cause hard feelings.

who knows unless i tell tell them i reported them?
the people that are underinsured and dodging taxes and using crap equipment that is not even road worthy. should be reported!
they should save their money and work their way up just like everyone else.


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## creative cuts (Feb 11, 2011)

lowballers have pride and families too


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## jvm81 (Jan 4, 2005)

Lowballer will always live on. 3 die - 2 come back. They have no idea what it takes to run a business.

Deal with them every year. I charge what I need and go from there. Help is always an issue around here. Some guys are good but hard to find - idoits are easy to find but hard for me to work with.

Whatever the service industry your in - its all the same game. My wife has a salon - there higher end. Yet she has clients that go out and get a cheap cut/perm/color etc. They eventually come back to have her people fix but it takes time, takes pay away from her salon/girls/ etc.

Fuel is fuel but dealing with 200K plow truck and old straight plow which may get the job done, not as fast, maybe padding the hours a bit all while being low bid - guy thinks he is rich! Now you maybe have alot newer truck, newer V plow, charging a little more but your OH is alot more cuz your in BUSINESS.

I say hang in there. Do what ya gotta do. If you like the job, life style, etc keep at it. If its time for a change - go for it!


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## bow2no1 (Oct 6, 2008)

i low ball people all the time, i have older equipment, but i take very good care of it.
my truck is a 02 2500hd i have a whole folder on repairs that i have done. recently i replaced the brake lines with those copper nickle ones that will probably never rust. 
my sander is a 05 unit 1.8 yards, i just changed the oil new belts, and plug
i have a used dual axle trailer that i'm constantly maintaining, i just picked up some diamond plate fenders for.
my tractor is a 1947 for 2n, with new style loader hydraulic down from a 80's ford tractor. i just put all new electrical on her all rewired. the only part i haven't replace is the generator.
she has new rear tires (loaded) with chains. 

everything except my truck is paid for, witch i only owe $3300 left on
it has taken me a long time to get to this point. 
if i want the work i do low ball for ir. it's because i can afford to,
i still have people lowball me and their equipment is total ****!
one guy particularly, i know has a home made trailer with no brakes,no brake away, and house trailer axles are used under it. in maine they are illegal to use.


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## plowguy43 (Jan 2, 2008)

bow2no1;1238372 said:


> i low ball people all the time, i have older equipment, but i take very good care of it.
> my truck is a 02 2500hd i have a whole folder on repairs that i have done. recently i replaced the brake lines with those copper nickle ones that will probably never rust.
> my sander is a 05 unit 1.8 yards, i just changed the oil new belts, and plug
> i have a used dual axle trailer that i'm constantly maintaining, i just picked up some diamond plate fenders for.
> ...


 I don't think many people have a problem with those who are legit (pay taxes and insurance) but have low overhead and can afford to charge less. Its those who go out who aren't legit just charging next to nothing because its "under the table"


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## magnum1 (Aug 27, 2010)

*Diversify*

How diversified are you or better question can you get. The only thing that has kept my
company above board is being able to spread out into several different fields of operation.
A little here a little there it adds up. The tricky questions are which direction and how far
to expand. Only you can answer that question you know your capabilities and limitations
Make a plan set goals seek advice from individuals in the buis. you are interested in
expanding into. they know the pitfalls and most buis. owners should be glad to give
you a some advice. Good luck in your new adventures


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## excav8ter (Oct 7, 2009)

fiveoboy01;1231867 said:


> Other companies are probably getting along and having to deal with the same things you are. How are they still in business?
> 
> It's likely that the failure of your business is your fault, and no one else's.


 I have just begun to read this thread, but that was not a fair comment. We don't know how he runs his business. 
That being said, I can tell you that I am at a crossroads in my business too. I have maintained my yearly sales for the last 10 years. But the last 3years have been tough. Insurance, fuel cost and guys who are willing to work for less money than it costs them to keep all their REAL bills paid. Equipment that EVERYONE used to bill out at $90/hr. some are billing out at $60. It makes it very difficult to find customers who understand the real cost of business, and realize that they may be getting a poorer quality of work. 
I know a few companies who have called it quits due to "lowballers". And they were SOLID companies. Just tired of working for nothing, but having all the stress and the "mental" weight of the business on their minds.
I have only one payment on a piece of equipment and have reduced my pay to the point that I could just as well go to work for someone else and make the same money, but go home at 5:30 or so and not have to worry about where the next check or job is coming from.

Keep your head up 89Comanche. Thumbs Up


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## cf1128 (Jan 14, 2009)

Guys, stop your *****ing and move to New Hampshire.
The air is cleaner, the grass is greener and diesel fuel is $.99 a gallon.
AND
WE DON'T HAVE LOWBALLERS!!!!
Clients never complain, and often over pay us in cash!! without us billing them.
Commercial Insurance is dirt cheap, D.O.T doesn't bust our balls and salt is free.
SSHHHHHH
Don't tell anyone. Let's keep this to ourselves.
Suck it up boys. It aint easy anywhere.
There have always been lowballers, hopefully this cluster*%&#$ winter will weed them out for next year, but guess what? There will be a whole new breed next year.
It is still a people business, they buy you. Then you prove yourself, the good ones know quality, and they know when they have a good thing.
Time for you to Re-Train your clients.
If you are good, you will be fine, if you give mediocre service, you are dead.


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

IMO I do not know how a 12-13 yr old truck lasts in the "salt" belt.My trucks do not last over 8 yrs. before saturated with rust.


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## SnowMT (Jan 12, 2011)

89Comanche;1232557 said:


> So I will admit last night I was a bit pissy. I admit I am to blame for our downfall, and that I am over reacting to the lowballers who have taken a great deal of our work. This summer I am going to re-group, sell off what is not needed and make a large attempt to downsize to the point were we can be comfortable.


Sorry to hear your going through a rough patch. Sometimes its best to take a step back, and some times punt in a different direction. Seek wise counsel. Low ballers will always be there. I see it as they are not on my playing field. Especially if my customer says Joe- doota- do can do the same job for less. I express the pros and cons of that. The good NEWs is business is business it's not personal. The better NEWs we live in a country where we are free to choose.ussmileyflag (or at least till China presses they want their monies) Choose to try that company. We stand behind our products and services and we don't play with prices. We are commited to doing quality work, with good turn times. We are not the cheepest out there and I will be the first to tell you that. Quality comes at a price. It's the cost of doing business. Truth is not everyone is my customer. Can't be everything for everyone. Know your target market.

"Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up. It knows it must outrun the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the slowest gazelle, or it will starve. It doesn't matter whether you're a lion or gazelle - when the sun comes up, you'd better be running."


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## SnowMT (Jan 12, 2011)

496 BB;1232680 said:


> In these times only the strong will survive. Dont worry about these lowballers. They will either fail completely or they will wake up real quick and realize that they are way to low on pricing. If the latter happens thats a good sign as they indeed do realize what it takes to get the job done and these guys most of the time have good intentions but bad business mindset. Its comes with experience so over time they should get it together. If not they will be out also.
> 
> Best thing I can tell ya is YOU HAVE TO ADAPT. A business model you had 2 years ago is NOT going to work today. Trust me I know. Im in the worst industry there is for hacks and lowballers.....construction. And to add to that we mainly do custom work which is hard to find in a good economy. The thing Ive learned though is you must adapt to the ever changing economy. You need to lower your prices and do the same quality but you have to make up for it in quantity. So essentially you have to work harder but know that it WILL pay off in the long run. You have to sell harder also. Your number one concern should be CUSTOMER SERVICE. This goes a loooong way for most....not all but most. You have to think outside the box nowadays. Say you have a small amount of customers that you have had for awhile. Take them all out for dinner or to a sporting event or something. Dont just send gift cards to a restaurant. Thats not personal enough. You have to gain there respect and once thats happened chances are they wont even be searching for other bids. Not always but any inside help you have is good for retention. Think in terms of pleasing them.
> 
> ...


 True.


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## SnowMT (Jan 12, 2011)

89Comanche;1233387 said:


> I took today to look over what I need to improve on and what ways I can do it. It is plain to see I have gotten to big to fast which has led to me spreading my guys all over the place, and turning profit into the bare bones of what I need to survive. Our equipment needs updating, 12-13 year old trucks cannot keep up, the reliability of all my trucks has dropped this season, and the 6mpg they get is not giving us any room to yield a profit. Our Skid Steer has greatly dropped off this year, it seems we are spending more on it then it is bringing in. Our crew is a great bunch of guys they are all working their butts off, but I fear there is just to many of us out there then jobs. Unfortunately I was takin for a run around with the college/high school kids I added as shovels/blowers. I hate to be this guy but these kids don't have the work ethic to survive in this business, Driving all over creation to find them, slacking off when not supervised, not showing/calling out when we would head out in the early hours, hell I had one instance of a kid showing up still drunk from the night before, his excuse was he didn't realize it was going to snow that day. UGH rant rant rant
> As soon as the season is over I am unfortunately going to have to drop several employees, down size my fleet, properly repair/replace my trucks, and unfortunately drop some accounts for next season.


Food for thought - Would not wait to make some changes. Would look to find a reliable person from within my company or a referral of one to run my sidewalk crew. Offer them a flat rate (they make X amount of monies to clear the following area's must be cleared by certain time) Hard for me to advise that don't know what your trigger points are and what your expectations are for your customer. This my friend should be a easy fix.

Also - get with your crew offer some type referral fee to your crew for bringing in new customers. IT's a WIN WIN. If these guys have been with you and they enjoy their job then they need to look out for you. IT's not just oh, I will just show up and drive. Meet - encourage - brain storm with these guys. Always be alert to what's happening in our industry, thinking WHAT can I do better.

It's time to get a game plan together. TODAY! DON"T wait, we are in a ever fast changing world. There is only so much time in between storms.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

I was there many years ago, I read and article called "FIRE YOUR CUSTOMER" and things have never been the same. The first year My gross dropped 40% but my net dropped 5%. The following year Gross where still down but my Net was up from the previous 5 years with half the payroll.

Look at all your customers and see who is making you money, the ones that aren't fire them.

Look at how many employees you need to service the customers that are left and fire the employees that don't make you any money.

Look at what equipment you have verses what you need to service the profitable customers. Sell what you don't need keeping only the reliable equipment that is making you money consistently. Sometime 3 new trucks can replace 5 old trucks, money spent is on gaining equity not repairs, there are the tax advantages, lower maintenance and NO repair cost (warranty) plus no lost billable hours while still paying employees to sit in a dead truck or work on a piece of equipment.

Look at your employees and fire anyone you don't have equipment for or maintain them if you want to but rotate them in the equipment. Cycle drivers on 8 hour shifts it lowers payroll though decreased overtime, and the higher employer share/costs for WC, unemployment, SS, Medicare,etc.

Trimming your non-profitable customers, work force and equipment rooster, while lowering your gross, can do wonderful things for your net.


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