# Magi Salt



## PrimoSR (May 15, 2010)

http://magicsalt.info/index.html

Anyone on here using it? I am really interested in the Magic-0 liquid sprayer.


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## JpLawn (Aug 5, 2007)

Do a search. There are plenty of threads about it.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

PrimoSR;1268741 said:


> http://magicsalt.info/index.html
> 
> Anyone on here using it? I am really interested in the Magic-0 liquid sprayer.


Been using it for years.What do you want to know?


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## PrimoSR (May 15, 2010)

tuney443;1269132 said:


> Been using it for years.What do you want to know?


Do you use the salt or the liquid? If you use the liquid how are you set up to spray it. Is it really that much more effective that regular salt? Financially from a cost/benefit basis how does it to compare to salt?

Sorry lots of questions but I am very intrigued.


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## PrimoSR (May 15, 2010)

JpLawn;1268917 said:


> Do a search. There are plenty of threads about it.


Thanks for the help! Where is the search button?


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## PrimoSR (May 15, 2010)

tuney443;1269132 said:


> Been using it for years.What do you want to know?


http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=116110&highlight=magic+salt

Just ready this thread and got some more info. But it turned into a lot of ranting and raving and my questions are more performance and finance based. Thanks for responding.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

PrimoSR;1269276 said:


> Do you use the salt or the liquid? If you use the liquid how are you set up to spray it. Is it really that much more effective that regular salt? Financially from a cost/benefit basis how does it to compare to salt?
> 
> Sorry lots of questions but I am very intrigued.


I only use Magic salt,it's good for app. -35*,the juice alone I believe will only work to about 20*,but don't quote me.It's much more effective than untreated salt by far.I pay $138.73 a yard,you only need app.1/2 as much Magic salt as untreated salt,but it will go to work immediately.Also,EPA approved,not harmful to concrete, metal,landscaping,and animals.After I plow my lots are black wet within an hour,much less if the sun is on them.


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## PrimoSR (May 15, 2010)

tuney443;1269379 said:


> I only use Magic salt,it's good for app. -35*,the juice alone I believe will only work to about 20*,but don't quote me.It's much more effective than untreated salt by far.I pay $138.73 a yard,you only need app.1/2 as much Magic salt as untreated salt,but it will go to work immediately.Also,EPA approved,not harmful to concrete, metal,landscaping,and animals.After I plow my lots are black wet within an hour,much less if the sun is on them.


Are you a dealer?


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

PrimoSR;1269415 said:


> Are you a dealer?


NO--if I was a dealer I wouldn't be guessing at the lowest temperature,nor would I be paying $138.73 a yard.I'm only a deiceologist[among other things].


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

tuney443;1269379 said:


> I only use Magic salt,it's good for app. -35*,the juice alone I believe will only work to about 20*,but don't quote me.It's much more effective than untreated salt by far.I pay $138.73 a yard,you only need app.1/2 as much Magic salt as untreated salt,but it will go to work immediately.Also,EPA approved,not harmful to concrete, metal,landscaping,and animals.After I plow my lots are black wet within an hour,much less if the sun is on them.


Tuney a few questions ..... I've thought about using magic in the past but I shy'd away from it........ I can get rock salt delivered for $74 a ton... even if I have to use twice as much as magic, it would still be close to the same cost as your paying (even if I were to spray my own pile, the cost would be pretty close) ..... I mean my lots that I use straight salt on are black after an hour also... Is there any "hidden" benefit for magic? I've heard it has better residual value then rock salt.... not sure if this is worth the 2x cost or not?...

Salt is salt... how can magic "salt" be "safe" on the enviroment? I've just always wondered this and would probably be better to ask a dealer but I'll put it out there anyway)... I mean magic salt is just regular sodium choloride mixed with magic 0... its still salt...... I didn't know if you have any insite to these questions or not.....thanks


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## snobgone (Feb 2, 2010)

The biggest benefit is the temperature operating range to -35 supposedly. When salt slows down and stops working, this stuff doesnt. There are many other products that do the same for much less, its personal preference and availabilty. Magic has everyones attention because its "envirnomentally safe" so for sensitive sites customers love it. Clear Lane, Ice Ban and other products work just as well and cost less.


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## PrimoSR (May 15, 2010)

Mick76;1269538 said:


> Salt is salt... how can magic "salt" be "safe" on the enviroment? I've just always wondered this and would probably be better to ask a dealer but I'll put it out there anyway)... I mean magic salt is just regular sodium choloride mixed with magic 0... its still salt...... I didn't know if you have any insite to these questions or not.....thanks


I am wondering this too. Isn't the major ingredient salt? Does the Magic-0 change it is chemical composition? Or is it more environmentally friendly because you use 1/2 the amount and it sticks to its intended surface better?


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## snobgone (Feb 2, 2010)

It claims to change the chemical composition of salt, and you can use less. It tracks better and a better residual than salt. The product works great. What would you want to use the liquid on? Would you be pre-treating? Its totally dependant on what your intended use would be.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Mick76;1269538 said:


> Tuney a few questions ..... I've thought about using magic in the past but I shy'd away from it........ I can get rock salt delivered for $74 a ton... even if I have to use twice as much as magic, it would still be close to the same cost as your paying (even if I were to spray my own pile, the cost would be pretty close) ..... I mean my lots that I use straight salt on are black after an hour also... Is there any "hidden" benefit for magic? I've heard it has better residual value then rock salt.... not sure if this is worth the 2x cost or not?...
> 
> Salt is salt... how can magic "salt" be "safe" on the enviroment? I've just always wondered this and would probably be better to ask a dealer but I'll put it out there anyway)... I mean magic salt is just regular sodium choloride mixed with magic 0... its still salt...... I didn't know if you have any insite to these questions or not.....thanks


Mick--yes to the residual value for sure.If you have an inside storage area,you will be way less than the app. $140 a yard that I have to pay to my Magic distributor.At app. $3.00 or so a gallon X 8 gallons per yard,you'll be at $98 a yard if you get your own spray outfit.It won't even be that much more if your area dealer came by to spray your salt.By me,the more salt you have,the less per unit cost,as in anything in volume.

As to being ''safe'',and EPA approved and all,here's my take---during a spreading of Magic salt,if the Magic juice on the salt melts the ice quickly and then the residual water evaporates, then it is considered safe.But if you're spreading it while it's raining and/ or you get a bad slushy Magic batch[caused by wet salt--Magic juice should only be applied to DRY salt],then the Mag chloride and the condensed distiller's solids separate away from the salt particles and your left with----salt,so then we all know the not so healthy aspects of that.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

snobgone;1269629 said:


> It claims to change the chemical composition of salt, and you can use less. It tracks better and a better residual than salt. The product works great. What would you want to use the liquid on? Would you be pre-treating? Its totally dependant on what your intended use would be.


It doesn't change the chemical composition of salt,the Magic O simply adds more punch to get quicker and much colder temperature results among other things.


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## lilweeds (Aug 3, 2007)

I can attest to the corrosion or lack there of when using magic. At the end of last year I had about two wheel barrels of salt left. I had two metal try ones that I wasn't using so I filled them with magic. When I used the salt this season there was not on spec of rust in there. As a matter of fact it looked better then when I loaded it. Can't say that for straight salt.


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## Digger63 (Dec 16, 2010)

*End Result*

It's always a balancing act when it comes to deicers, What melts the ice is the chemical heat ( not temperture ) that any deicer uses to break the bonds that are created when water turns to ice ( hydrogen atoms of water bond to each other ) . What helps keep them apart from reforming are the ions from whatever deicer you would use ( salt breaks down into one sodium ion and one chloride ion ) . Think of it as pieces of a puzzle going together and putting a marble between them The puzzle won't fit together = water won't turn to ice. All chlorides create heat that helps break the bonds that form ice. Unfortunately, they also accelerate rust and refreeze quickly once diluted. Organics used in deicers have a high ion content that keeps the water from bonding together to form ice ( the puzzle pieces and the marbles again) Okay, what does this all mean? If your looking for a fast melter at lower temps, go for the salt treated with more chemical, if speed isn't't an issue but refreeze and residue is, go towards the organic side. All liquid deicers have corrosion inhibitors either added of in case of the organics naturally in them, they all work by having a reduced oxygen content that helps keep rust from starting. Like I said with so many different products out there look up and try each to see what works best for you, Price, consistency, and knowledge of product is what you should look for


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Digger63;1270304 said:


> It's always a balancing act when it comes to deicers, What melts the ice is the chemical heat ( not temperture ) that any deicer uses to break the bonds that are created when water turns to ice ( hydrogen atoms of water bond to each other ) . What helps keep them apart from reforming are the ions from whatever deicer you would use ( salt breaks down into one sodium ion and one chloride ion ) . Think of it as pieces of a puzzle going together and putting a marble between them The puzzle won't fit together = water won't turn to ice. All chlorides create heat that helps break the bonds that form ice. Unfortunately, they also accelerate rust and refreeze quickly once diluted. Organics used in deicers have a high ion content that keeps the water from bonding together to form ice ( the puzzle pieces and the marbles again) Okay, what does this all mean? If your looking for a fast melter at lower temps, go for the salt treated with more chemical, if speed isn't't an issue but refreeze and residue is, go towards the organic side. All liquid deicers have corrosion inhibitors either added of in case of the organics naturally in them, they all work by having a reduced oxygen content that helps keep rust from starting. Like I said with so many different products out there look up and try each to see what works best for you, Price, consistency, and knowledge of product is what you should look for


Yeah,what I said. Not to shabby for a digger man.I might have to consult with my old chemistry teacher to see if that's on the up and up digger.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Magic and other organic de-icers tend to be a pain in the butt to spray. The solid content is very high and they clog filters and tips very easily.
Synthetic liquid additives are easier to work with when spraying, are more consistent, and dont fall out/ separate without re-circulation.
If you intend to pre-treat or de-ice with straight magic-0 good luck making a profit in a competitive market. Unless of course u can purchase straight from the source (sears), eliminating the east coast magic markup mafia lol.

Magic -0 treated salt does perform very well, but unfortunately it is mag chloride based/dependent. Without mag its still a distillery waste by product and useless. New research is showing mag chloride based products will be baned in more and more states sooner then later. 

On a side note- I still havnt figured out how a product can claim "as corrosive as water", yet it will wipe out aluminum faster then a pack of yotes on a deer carcass. How can that be ? 
Anyone ?


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## Digger63 (Dec 16, 2010)

Spraying the organics really depends on the application. Most people spraying piles and mixing clogging isn't a problem. For my mixing I use teejet 8020 fan spray nozzles in my mixer and they clog only once in a while. I've found in the organics that there is a little sand grit that clogs once in a while. When I mix with salt brine for anti-icing application on roads using the teejet 8000 nozzles I've never had a clog.
As for the advertising, you can spin things anyway you want and people will tend not to question and believe a good talker. 
Some places are starting to restrict mag chloride, the reason it is used is it's melting power and cost. At this point the switch may be to calcium chloride to boost the organics. Both mag and calcium are corrosive, both are usually mix with an inhibiter or the right degree of an organic. Each type of organic base (IceBite or Magic) I would assume would have a certain percentage of mix to inhibit corrosion.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Digger I agree that when "cut" the magic does not clog as bad.
My point was spraying at the spinner or other direct methods of spraying straight magic-0, or other organics for that matter. Stock pile treatment is not filtered, and with an 1.5" hose it better not plug up lol.

My tank on my truck is not drained down 100% to often. The solids build up on the bottom of the tank like sludge. Any storage tank, bucket barrel etc. will get the same sludge. The 5hp pacer pump has no problem moving it, ( unfiltered) however the spray system on the truck is filtered. It plugs up instantly. No problems ever with cal, or synthetic blends. 
In my experience magic or other enhancers are not needed for decent results, with warmer temps. I only spray the bulk sodium when needed. 

The states are finding mag chloride products do not get along well with concrete, and cal is often added to concrete ready mix


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## PrimoSR (May 15, 2010)

Thanks for all the info guys.


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## JpLawn (Aug 5, 2007)

T-MAN;1271019 said:


> Digger I agree that when "cut" the magic does not clog as bad.
> My point was spraying at the spinner or other direct methods of spraying straight magic-0, or other organics for that matter. Stock pile treatment is not filtered, and with an 1.5" hose it better not plug up lol.
> 
> My tank on my truck is not drained down 100% to often. The solids build up on the bottom of the tank like sludge. Any storage tank, bucket barrel etc. will get the same sludge. The 5hp pacer pump has no problem moving it, ( unfiltered) however the spray system on the truck is filtered. It plugs up instantly. No problems ever with cal, or synthetic blends.
> ...


I think that Magic actually tells you to take the filters out so they don't clog. I read it some where in there info.


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

*Liquid anti icers- changing*

Youre right about mag chloride.. we are now learning it has long term problems with corroding insulated wires/concrete/aluminum. Some states/dots are banning it, such as Iowa. I am working on a soltution and will post when ready.

Get your product test/spec sheets, dont just listen to the bs



T-MAN;1270462 said:


> Magic and other organic de-icers tend to be a pain in the butt to spray. The solid content is very high and they clog filters and tips very easily.
> Synthetic liquid additives are easier to work with when spraying, are more consistent, and dont fall out/ separate without re-circulation.
> If you intend to pre-treat or de-ice with straight magic-0 good luck making a profit in a competitive market. Unless of course u can purchase straight from the source (sears), eliminating the east coast magic markup mafia lol.
> 
> ...


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## rjcunningham (Feb 23, 2011)

ok so how many yards does it take to treat one acre of black top


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## draffinc (Aug 27, 2006)

rjcunningham;1287605 said:


> ok so how many yards does it take to treat one acre of black top


Rates for Magic Salt are 250lbs per acre of parking lot as a starting point.


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## Digger63 (Dec 16, 2010)

*how many yards does it take to treat one acre of black top*

A lot of factors come into play when estimating how much salt to use for deicing. Ground temperture being the most important one. Using records kept by weather services can give you a yearly average for the winter months on temperture going back as many years a you like.By melting the snow with deicer and creating water, the concentration of the deicer contintinually changes and so does the temperture in which it works. An Ice control product will work ( melting snow and creating water) until the freeze point temperture of the increasingly diluted solution equals the road temperture. This is where the residue effect of products also come into play. As stated in previous posts more particles, more residue, less refreeze. As Mr Finch stated, whoever you purchase product from ask about the product. Ask for up to date testing, ask if the product has the same ingredients from year to year, Ask what blend of chemical is in the product. If your that patriotic, ask if it is an American made or imported from another country. All said and done if someone says this much product will melt this much ice or snow... *Have them prove it to you *


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