# Subcontracting for another company, anyone run into this?



## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

So I get a call today from a company that does not do snow plowing but they service this other company for maintenace on their equipement, parts and such.

So I would be subcontracting under this main company to plow at another company.

The reason said is because the place that needs plowing requires a gl policy of at least 5 million.

Because it is a as needed oncall situation they could not find a snow plowing company with a 5 mill gl policy who would do oncall, so the main company provides additional Gl insurance to cover it for companies that only have a 3 mill policy.

Background:
The place in question has workers that plow it out but only if they are not in production. 
If they are then they will call us for smaller sized storms and will call us in to either help with the bigger storms or take care it if they are in production.
It is a little over 5 acres of plowable space and talking to the guy on site he said it takes them around 4-5 hours to plow out the place.
I will have a better grasp as I am meeting him there this friday morning.

Normally you take on a client, you write up your contract and the client signs it.

In this case, I would be working under another contractor and not sure how to proceed to cover my self,

They sent me this subcontractor agreement:

For good and valuable consideration, the receip and suffrciency of which is hereby acknowledged, Subcontractor and the Contractor hereby agree as follows:

Article.l. Statement of Work: 
From time to time, Subcontractor may provide services to Contractor. [n addition to the terms and conditions negotiated by the parties for particular projects, Contractor and Subcontractor hereby agree that the terms and conditions of this Subcontractor Agreement (the "Agreement") shall apply whenever Subcontactor provides services to Contractor

Article 2. Insurance: 
The Subcontractor at its own expense, shall obtain and maintain in full force and effect, without intemrption during the term of the Agreement, Commercial General Liability Insurance. 
The suggested minimum levels are as follows 
$1,000,000 per occurrence [for Bodily injury, (including death), 
Property Damage and Personal tnjury] 
$ 100,000 Damage to rented premises (each occunence) 
$ 5,000 Med. Expenses (to any one person 
$ 1,000,000 Personal & Adv. Injury 
$ 2,000,000 General Aggregate 
$ 2,000,000 Products /Completed Operations aggregate

Commercial General Liability insurance covering the legal liability (including liability assumed contractually, whether incidental or not) of the Subcontractor who may be engaged in services, for claims for personal injuries (including death) and property damage resulting there from arising out of the services to be performed by the Subcontactor. (the company), Inc. reserves the right to require the Subcontractor to obtain additional insurance if deemed necessary depending on the needs of the Project, or reject a Subcontractor if their insurance does not meet the minimum needs required for a Project

The Contractor as well as its Directors, Officers and Employees shall be named as an Additional Insured on such Commercial General Liability policy rggarding liability arising out of operations performed under this Agreement.

The Subcontractor's Insurance coverage shall be Primary insurance as respects work on this project for Contractor, its dirctors, officers, and employees. Any insurance or self- insurance maintained by the Contractor shall be excess of the Subcontractor's insurance.

The Subcontractor, in its agreements with other subcontractors, shall require subcontractors to obtain insurance meeting the minimum limits and incorporating the contractual requirements that are prescribed by this Section.

The Subcontractor hereby waives and relinquishes any right of subrogation against Contractor and its agents, representatives, employees, and affiliates they might possess for any policy of insurance provided under this Section.

The Subcontractor shall require its insurer to notifu Contractor thirty (30) days prior to the effective date of any cancellation or material change in any of the required policies. To the extent that the Subcontractor utilizes deductibles in conjunction with the insurance required by this Agreement, all deductible expenses will be assumed by the Subcontractor.

Article 3. Indemnffication and Arbitration: 
The work performed by the Subcontractor shall be at the risk of the Subcontractor exclusively. Subcontractor hereby indemnifies and holds the Contractor, its affrliates and their respective officers, directors, employees and agents, harmless from and against any and all claims, actions, losses, judgments, or expenses, including reasonable attorneys fees, arising from or in any way connected from the work performed, materials furnished, or services provided to Contractor during the term of this Agreement.

Article. Miscellaneous
Subcontractor is an independent contractor and not an employee of the Conhactor. This Agreement shall be in full force and effect from the date of signing unless canceled in writing by either party with thirty (30) days' written notice. The cancellation of this Agreement shall not negate any term or condition, such as the indemnity or insurance requirements.Any Amendment(s) must be given in rnriting
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Thats it -(I copied and pasted it and for some weird reason it flipped letters around in some parts, spelling is correct in the form they sent)

Is this a pretty standard subcontractor agreement between companies?

A whole lot different than the one I use for my guys.

In advance, thanks for the advice.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I've had a long day, so if I'm off, I am sorry. So they want you on call, if they need you, and you are accepting all responsibility. So if they start, but can't handle it, they call you in, its all on your shoulders. It better be paying a lot, or I would walk. Unless I read it wrong.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Randall Ave said:


> I've had a long day, so if I'm off, I am sorry. So they want you on call, if they need you, and you are accepting all responsibility. So if they start, but can't handle it, they call you in, its all on your shoulders. It better be paying a lot, or I would walk. Unless I read it wrong.


You hit the nail on the head and yes I will be charging accordly for it, double my normal price.

Edit:
I also think once I get my foot in the door and they see what we can do, I would offer a lower price if they just let us handle it all season long.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

So I have 4 guys sitting around waiting for a bigger storm 
I’d want a retainer fee to tie up equipment and I didn’t read the contract I’m sure it’s not in your favor


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## snowplower1 (Jan 15, 2014)

That sounds like a nightmare. If I have any customer that wants anything on call, they immediately are liable for any services that they have to call me for. For example, I have a site with on call lot salting. I am not responsible for anything that happens in that parking lot. 

Also, how can you dedicate your equipment to one site that may or may not need you? That is equipment that could be used for full time customers


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

snowplower1 said:


> That sounds like a nightmare. If I have any customer that wants anything on call, they immediately are liable for any services that they have to call me for. For example, I have a site with on call lot salting. I am not responsible for anything that happens in that parking lot.
> 
> Also, how can you dedicate your equipment to one site that may or may not need you? That is equipment that could be used for full time customers


Well I would need it spelled out I'm not responsible for the site unless I was there during the storm and I wouldn't dedicate a truck to it, they would have to be added on to one of the routes at the end.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Something fishy and out of whack with someone who will pay double your rate but not increase their liability insurance to $5 m for a couple hundred a year.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Mr.Markus said:


> Something fishy and out of whack with someone who will pay double your rate but not increase their liability insurance to $5 m for a couple hundred a year.


I thought the same thing.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Mr.Markus said:


> Something fishy and out of whack with someone who will pay double your rate but not increase their liability insurance to $5 m for a couple hundred a year.


I haven't put a bid in yet 
Thinking of bidding double my rate


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

What would u need to commit there


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Equipment wise


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> Equipment wise


Just one plow truck if needed


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## Arrowbrook99 (Oct 22, 2017)

JMHConstruction said:


> I thought the same thing.


Ditto


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Sketchy


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Mr.Markus said:


> Something fishy and out of whack with someone who will pay double your rate but not increase their liability insurance to $5 m for a couple hundred a year.


You guys are reading this wrong.

If I named the place you would understand why the insurance is so high and there are a lot of hoops to jump thru for verifaction, let's just say its a senstive area to plow.

One example I can give you is for one area you need a Twic card -(which I carry) and for those who don't know what that is:
The *TWIC* program provides a tamper-resistant biometric credential to maritime workers requiring unescorted access to secure areas of port facilities, outer continental shelf facilities, and vessels regulated under the Maritime Transportation Security Act of 2002, or MTSA,

So getting back, Company A does maintenance on their equipment and carries the main load of insurance and requirements, they do not snow plow but can subcontract someone to do this.

Company A just does not just do maintenance on this one site but different sites here in CT, Mass, RI, and other states.
I already looked them up, they are good company that has been in business for over 20 years.

So I have two ways to deal with this, I can subcontract thru company A or I can spend about a grand getting verified, increasing my insurance, etc...

Now considering this is a as needed basis, I would prefer option 1 and subcontract.

If I was getting the contract and plowing every storm, I would jump thru the hoops and do it -(have done it, but sadly the place I did it thru, the site doesn't use it,they use a different system)

My question is the above subcontractor contract they sent me looks pretty standard, it is similar to ones you have had to sign or one you may use yourself for people who you hire to for subcontracting.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Did u foward it to your lawyer 

And I misread it I thought u needed 4 trucks there 
1 truck isn’t a issues


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> Did u foward it to your lawyer
> 
> And I misread it I thought u needed 4 trucks there
> 1 truck isn't a issues


Not yet, have a walkthru to do onsite this friday, I may opt to walk away depending on the answers I get and what the site looks like in person.

That is also going to determine what I charge, my normal rate or bump it up a bit more, was thinking double but don't want to be greedy if its a straight forward site that might lead to more work down the road.

No the site looks pretty straightford, one truck could do the whole thing for a 3 inch storm in 4 to 5 hours.
Plenty of spots to put snow, but again looking at google maps just doesn't show it like walking a place does.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

MSsnowplowing said:


> Not yet, have a walkthru to do onsite this friday, I may opt to walk away depending on the answers I get and what the site looks like in person.
> 
> That is also going to determine what I charge, my normal rate or bump it up a bit more, was thinking double but don't want to be greedy if its a straight forward site that might lead to more work down the road.
> 
> ...





MSsnowplowing said:


> Not yet, have a walkthru to do onsite this friday, I may opt to walk away depending on the answers I get and what the site looks like in person.
> 
> That is also going to determine what I charge, my normal rate or bump it up a bit more, was thinking double but don't want to be greedy if its a straight forward site that might lead to more work down the road.
> 
> ...


What about WC? Or did I miss it, The Contract I don't see much wrong with. This does not mean you don't let your Lawyer look at it, So your on call do you have a backup and a man you could use if they call, If you have a full route I don't think he is going to want to hear I'll catch you when I'm done.

The whole thing is rather shady because there self performing and really just looking for back up as one of us may do time to time. They could be self performing and figuring out that it's not working out, This happens all the time. Meaning you could end up with a 5 acre site. Or could be a bunch of nothing. This time of year calls like that you have to use caution.

I'm not saying run wait till you do the walk though and see what they expect, If your happy with it and you have the man and truck go for it. You know they may have other bids. I'm not sure doubling your price will work. JMO


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

So let me get it.you are there backup incase they can't handle the event!?!? How can you plow at 1 million and they require 5 million? If there is damage who pays. Way to many questions for me very risky operation!


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Update:

Well, it's a 6 hour plow with a 3" snow fall.
I put the bid as my normal rate with a extra $75 thrown in.

If called I have to respond within a 5 hour window by storm end, which works in my favor for smaller storms but if it is a bigger storm, I'm going to have get a truck in there to do a few passes and that could be a headache depending on the time of the storm. 

I just may end working directly for them, getting all the info sent to me after Monday.

I think the other company is making the requirements to be harder than they really are, but I will find out.


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## duramax plow (Aug 31, 2015)

So your Bid is :laugh::laugh::laugh:$76.00 Seems like a lot of hassle for so little.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

duramax plow said:


> So your Bid is :laugh::laugh::laugh:$76.00 Seems like a lot of hassle for so little.


WTH are you talking about?


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## duramax plow (Aug 31, 2015)

1olddogtwo said:


> WTH are you talking about?


That's not a bald spot, the breeze you feel is the joke flying over.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

duramax plow said:


> So your Bid is :laugh::laugh::laugh:$76.00 Seems like a lot of hassle for so little.


He said 75$ on top of his normal bid


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Well I put it in $75 over my normal rate and just waiting to hear.
What's nice is If they call I have 12 hours to show up from storm end
So I can finish my properties first


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

duramax plow said:


> That's not a bald spot, the breeze you feel is the joke flying over.


Sorry durajoke.......u must have gotten me real good.....


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Update:
Got the contract, now we shall see if it pays out.


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