# Plow truck advice



## Team Pigeon (Jan 31, 2009)

Fellas, looking for some pointers on a few topics.

TO start, I am acting president of our local snowmobile club in south BC. All funds are from fundraising and grants and annual memberships- which means I'm on a rather tight budget that comes with high expectations.

Would like something that looks good and represents us well driving through the community, need it to be road legal and safe for a handful of volunteers to use. Going to also haul 100 gallon slip tank for snowcat fuel and a tool box (and make a little 2' by 4' box for gravel storage).

Decided against diesel engines, the truck is only going to run intermittently for a max of 6 hours a week for 5 months. An hour here, two hours there and so on. Would be surprised to hit 5000km in a year.

What we're plowing are two 1/4 mile approaches and two 200x200 foot parking lots. I push banks back twice a season with a snowcat.

Been looking at trucks around the 5000 mark and a plow for about the same. Also going to purchase a tailgate sander as our approach roads are both uphill.

That got me looking at Ford F250 & 350's from 2000 to 2004- 5.8 and v10's. Prefer the v10's. And all I been finding are 8' crew cab forestry truck lumber wagon mechanics specials that have been run into the ground. I liked the fords as they were leaf sprung and the payload was quite high.

Now looking at 2003 era GMChev 2500's. Payloads seem about the same. 
How am I gonna find the GM/Chev to be in the front end? Good to run a plow for weight?
Here's one I'm looking at tomorrow, she wants $7600.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...uck/555661532?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Any advice on trucks around the $5-7000 mark?

As for a plow, straight vs. scoop vs. Vblade? Leaning towards Vblade 8'. Downpressure isn't really an issue as I have the snowcat to really clean it up out there.

There's an older Boss V-blade and another straight one. 
http://kalispell.craigslist.org/cto/4287454584.html
http://kalispell.craigslist.org/hvo/4339128187.html

Seen some hiniker's
http://kalispell.craigslist.org/hvd/4338843871.html

What else? There's a meyers and an orange arctic plow used locally out here too. Spokane is about 3hrs drive down across the border. Kalispell and coeurDaLeine are a bit further.

And for my sander. Decided on a tailgate style only (slip tank and tool box). One model that sold from under my feet was a western and the guy ran 3/4 crush through it no problem. Sand would just glaze over with the amount of snow that falls down here. Easy to shovel and load, cheap to get, hopefully get it free and trade for some advertising.

Any advice on motors, truck models, brands of equipment and stuff would be great. Thanks. Steph


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Why not just get an 8ft pusher box or blade for tool cat?


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## allagashpm (Sep 29, 2012)

I would be patient and keep looking for the ford v10. It's not like it's November so you hve time to get the right one and make sure your spending your limited funds wisely. If you want the stuff in the bed you listed an 8ft box would be ideal, so will there be more than 2 passengers in the truck usually? If yes, you have to start looking at the ex cab or crew cabs. I personally would go with a v blade, it will make things easier on the truck, of the brands you mentioned I would go with the boss. Sander just make sure to do your research stay away from anything withsignificant rust, make sure it has an auger if you're going to be doing sand. I also was wondering why not utilize the tool cat? They are expensive machines to be sitting around for pushing banks.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Whiffyspark;1778888 said:


> Why not just get an 8ft pusher box or blade for tool cat?





allagashpm;1778958 said:


> I would be patient and keep looking for the ford v10. It's not like it's November so you hve time to get the right one and make sure your spending your limited funds wisely. If you want the stuff in the bed you listed an 8ft box would be ideal, so will there be more than 2 passengers in the truck usually? If yes, you have to start looking at the ex cab or crew cabs. I personally would go with a v blade, it will make things easier on the truck, of the brands you mentioned I would go with the boss. Sander just make sure to do your research stay away from anything withsignificant rust, make sure it has an auger if you're going to be doing sand. I also was wondering why not utilize the tool cat? They are expensive machines to be sitting around for pushing banks.


Now I have read OP's post twice and see no mention of tool cat. He did mention snow cat.

Op, I agree with allagashpm, if you have gotten by so far this season with out this truck you will find better deals after your season has ended. This way you can find what you are looking for and not settle on something you may not really want. For plows I would go by what you have dealer support for. As in which dealers you have close to you.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

I've read tool cat so many times on this site didn't even realize that. Snow cats are trail groomers aren't they?


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## Team Pigeon (Jan 31, 2009)

Snowcat won't be used to regularly clear parking lots. Our current one tows a trail drag behind it. Unhooking, re-hooking can take upwards to an hour of volunteer time if you're alone, which you will be plowing lots. Looking to make it comfortable for a semi-retired, retired or shift worker to just hop in the truck with a coffee and go plow for an hour.

http://www.tri-county.ab.ca/Gallery/2009-2010/2010_SantasToyRide/ToyRide12.JPG
Driving the cat on hard road surfaces is also hard on grouser bars and I don't wish to un-necesarrily change them out as they take a lot more time than an hour to do. Nor do we have ice picks on our growser bars so I don't have sidehill control.

Our second lot doesn't have a snowcat yet. We are purchasing one in the spring. I contract out sanding and plowing right now so we are at their mercy for scheduling. We used to have a bobcat that did the clearing but we sold it to buy the truck/plow combo.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Team Pigeon;1778716 said:


> Decided against diesel engines, the truck is only going to run intermittently for a max of 6 hours a week for 5 months. An hour here, two hours there and so on. Would be surprised to hit 5000km in a year.


Based on the amount of "sitting" the vehicle will be doing, I would lean towards diesel. Not because of the characteristics of the engine, but rather the characteristics of the fuel. Gasoline, especially the crap you buy in the winter, turns to gel very easily and quickly. Diesel... can pretty much sit in a tank forever and be fine.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Umm diesel has a shelf life as well. Not sure who told you that but they need to reck there info 
Gas usually has a shelf life if about 6 months. All depending upon what additives are used


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Plus gelling lines..


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## Team Pigeon (Jan 31, 2009)

Ever heard of diesel conditioner... for diesel fuel? OR Stabil gasoline treatment... for gasoline?

Pretty weak reason to suggest a diesel engine.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

jasonv;1779060 said:


> Based on the amount of "sitting" the vehicle will be doing, I would lean towards diesel. Not because of the characteristics of the engine, but rather the characteristics of the fuel. Gasoline, especially the crap you buy in the winter, turns to gel very easily and quickly. *Diesel... can pretty much sit in a tank forever and be fine*.


:laughing:laughing:laughing: LMFAO:laughing:laughing:laughing:

diesel can gel VERY easily in cold temps. especially sitting for extended periods of time like that.

this winter alone we had 18 wheeler guys stop at the truck for a short period of time. went out to start back up, gelled. and we aren't even talking sitting for 24 hours. you don't ever find a gasoline engine gelled for sitting less than 24 hours.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Team Pigeon;1779097 said:


> Ever heard of diesel conditioner... for diesel fuel? OR Stabil gasoline treatment... for gasoline?
> 
> Pretty weak reason to suggest a diesel engine.


There was an article awhile ago about stabil. And I have talked to small engine mechanics. There is no 
Concrete evidence of it working


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## speedy1wrc (Feb 15, 2014)

Whether gas or diesel if there's water in it, you need to treat it. I use Stabil in all my had engines that sit for any amount of time. Does it work? I can't give data other than I don't see gum, and so far so good. In the diesel motors I use conditioner and this far this year with a lot of below zero, no problems. Most of the tractors sit all Winter and start fine in the Spring as do the gas mowers. The diesel truck sat from July till Winter and it did run rough for a bit but after adding some fuel it smoothed out.

Anything you buy will need reasonable maintnenace. When you start to plow that will increase obviously.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

yardguy28;1779106 said:


> :laughing:laughing:laughing: LMFAO:laughing:laughing:laughing:
> 
> diesel can gel VERY easily in cold temps. especially sitting for extended periods of time like that.


(1) You're talking about EXTREME cold, not just normal cold.
(2) And it goes back to normal as soon as it warms back up.
Your argument is invalid.

Gasoline gelling is a one-way permanent process that ruins the gas, as well as whatever that gas happens to be stored in.... including your fuel pump or injectors.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

dieselss;1779066 said:


> Umm diesel has a shelf life as well. Not sure who told you that but they need to reck there info


Sure... about 15 years.



> Gas usually has a shelf life if about 6 months.


Less than the time the OP is suggesting that the vehicle will be "sitting" during the off-season.



> All depending upon what additives are used


Good luck with additives. Especially that ethyl alcohol stuff, it *really* helps....


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

jasonv;1779509 said:


> Sure... about 15 years.
> 
> Less than the time the OP is suggesting that the vehicle will be "sitting" during the off-season.
> 
> Good luck with additives. Especially that ethyl alcohol stuff, it *really* helps....


I really don't know where you find some of the information you post sometimes. It's quite disturbing.

You're really going to recommend a diesel for a artic like climate and one that is going to sit a lot?

Come on man. Diesels are horrible for cold weather unless you can leave them running.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Whiffyspark;1779526 said:


> I really don't know where you find some of the information you post sometimes. It's quite disturbing.
> 
> You're really going to recommend a diesel for a artic like climate and one that is going to sit a lot?
> 
> Come on man. Diesels are horrible for cold weather unless you can leave them running.


You Americans think that anything north of the 49th is "arctic". Pass Creek (where OP is from) is *just* north of the US border. That which is "arctic" starts north of the 66th.

I will recommend DIESEL for ANYTHING that is going to spend a lot of time SITTING. Diesel sits a LOT better than gas, and no amount of arguing on your part will ever change that.

They really aren't that horrible in the cold. Not unless it is REAL cold, and this is easily managed by adding a little bit of warmth. Block/coolant heaters work wonderfully. Of all of my diesel equipment, the biggest challenge is warming up the HYDRAULICS. Engines are easy to deal with, even the DB 219 AD 4/55 in my Case 580G. Thing sits for months at a time -- and occasionally it has even sat for over a year, yet starts consistently, even in the cold.


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## Team Pigeon (Jan 31, 2009)

Most of you should all shut your faces. There's minimal advice as I've asked in the first sentence of my first post. Grey matter is puddling on the floor below me as I type. And I bet I'm not the only one.

I'll recap.

1-No Diesels.
2-No Diesels.
3-Are chev 2500's able to hold up to plow activities?
4-The snowcat won't be regularily plowing the parking lots.
5-I found a local Western dealer locally that wishes to help out our club- cost pricing. Probably go with him for both the plow and sander, thanks for reminding me to stay local.
6-It's -20CELCIUS here for about a week a year. The rest of the time it's hovering between 0 and -10. CELCIUS.
7-The arctic is about 24hrs drive time from my house. Some people live in igloos up there. https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Cast...137244371ef81!2m2!1d-114.3717886!2d62.4539717
8-Refer to #1. Then read it again in #2.
9-Diesel conditioner works. Follow directions to the location in #7. Line up 15 diesels and the one not using conditioner is the one that's frozen rooster stiff. 10-What's another word for rooster? 
11-Go back to #9 and switch the word 'diesel' with 'gasoline' using the other word for rooster.
12-I don't care about warming up the DB 455 89 28 41 whatever hydraulics on your case loader tractor. Not one ounce of care. You wanna talk warming up hydraulics, let's see. Up 300km due north of that location in point #7 there's a diamond mine I used to work at. The primary sizer takes rock half the size of your diesel truck. And crushes it. At -60C. We have the proper oil in that equipment so that it starts up fine. You should look into that.
13-Diesel anyone?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

2500 will be fine. Prob the 6.0 might just need a few front end components, and might need some motor parts. Look at the motor mounts, dipstick tube, exh manifolds. Ask about the water pump and t-stat if/when they have been changed. Look at the frame for the nasty rust as well. 
Depending upon how the plow sits on that trk might want to add some front end help to it. At minimum, turn up the tbars.
If it doesn't have a 2nd batt its easy to add, if it does then you might wanna remove the factory parts and just wire it direct. If its sitting for long periods then a batt disconnect might be an option to think about 
Imo can't go wrong with Western and if there close that's even better.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Sure... about 15 years.
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_int...ts/downloads_pdfs/f/Long_Term_Storage_ADF.pdf

just had to clarify team.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

Whiffyspark;1779526 said:


> I really don't know where you find some of the information you post sometimes. It's quite disturbing.
> 
> You're really going to recommend a diesel for a artic like climate and one that is going to sit a lot?
> 
> Come on man. *Diesels are horrible for cold weather unless you can leave them running*.





jasonv;1779507 said:


> (1) You're talking about EXTREME cold, not just normal cold.
> (2) And it goes back to normal as soon as it warms back up.
> Your argument is invalid.
> 
> Gasoline gelling is a one-way permanent process that ruins the gas, as well as whatever that gas happens to be stored in.... including your fuel pump or injectors.


whiffy hit the nail directly on the head, spot on with my point. your gonna recommend a diesel engine for a vehicle that is gonna sit idle in cold weather A LOT???

I live in a climate where winter comes 3-4 months out of the year and even I won't push the button on a diesel because of the chance of the fuel gelling and hard starts during those winter months.

in fact I've been researching diesel engines for at least 4 months now considering making the switch and I haven't found one person to recommend I go diesel. there reason? the 3-4 months of winter.

and this for a truck that would get driven on a mostly daily basis, sitting idle only for a couple day at a time here and there.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

yardguy28;1779703 said:


> whiffy hit the nail directly on the head, spot on with my point. your gonna recommend a diesel engine for a vehicle that is gonna sit idle in cold weather A LOT???
> 
> I live in a climate where winter comes 3-4 months out of the year and even I won't push the button on a diesel because of the chance of the fuel gelling and hard starts during those winter months.
> 
> ...


You are confused... it will be sitting **IN THE SUMMER** a lot.
For ANYTHING that sits a lot, gasoline is garbage. Fact.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

What does any of this matter? OP said no diesel several times. Maybe start a gas vs diesel thread if you guys want to keep arguing the pro's and con's of each. 


OP, You really can't go wrong with any of the big plow brands. It just comes down to what color you like and which dealer you are more comfortable with.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

gelling gasoline???

The flash point of gasoline is about -97F, meaning that it will still burn at *97 degrees below zero*. 
Only if there is any water mixed in with the fuel, it can still freeze at around 32F.

The freezing temp will depend on subtle properties of its constituents however generally around -120F
fyi

and if you meant diesel fuel, gelling fuel does not ruin your fuel pumps or injectors.



jasonv;1779507 said:


> (1) You're talking about EXTREME cold, not just normal cold.
> (2) And it goes back to normal as soon as it warms back up.
> Your argument is invalid.
> 
> Gasoline gelling is a one-way permanent process that ruins the gas, as well as whatever that gas happens to be stored in.... including your fuel pump or injectors.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

If your gas has ethanol in it and I'm sure your does it will go bad rather quickly. 
I really like my diesel,(we run both) but for the OP a gasser is probably a better choice.


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## yardguy28 (Jan 23, 2012)

I've NEVER heard of fuel, gasoline or diesel gelling in the summer from ANYTHING. 

BOTH will gel in cold/freezing temps. 

I know gas goes bad after sitting for so long and can develope and cause problems in engine if it's old but it gelling isn't the problem. not in the summer months anyway.


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