# Primarily Residential Work - Seasonal vs Per Push



## OneManWithAPlow

I am looking to plow Residential in my town, and this is going to be my first year plowing. Ive spent countless hours determining what I am going to be getting myself into and came to the conclusion that for this coming year I am going to start small, and utilize flag-downs when available. I have about 5-7 clients definitely interested in my services and I have yet to put my name out there as I'm currently in the process of getting my contract situated.

My problem lies in that I want to offer as many possible options to the customer as I can.

Average annual snowfall is about 50 inches
Last year we had maybe 12 inches, two years ago we had probably 100+

If I am to plow per push, for a 15x50 ft driveway and the customer notes they want a 4 inch trigger, I was thinking $40, $50 including sidewalk.

Smaller driveways would be $30, anything larger or more complicated would start at $50 driveway alone. This would be done at my discretion.

My questions arise in two areas. First:

Salt/Sand/CaCl...how does this get factored in? typically included? typically not done? charged extra? Am I charging too much? If I'm doing a slightly larger driveway and sidewalk, would I charge $80 per push at whatever trigger the customer wanted? Also for a seasonal rate...for a 50x15 driveway with a 75 ft sidewalk, how much salt would be used? Some people are saying 3x cost at $9 a bag, I feel like that area could easily eat through a bag and a half of spread. $30 on top of snow management for the property to be salted brings it to nearly $90 per push.

My second question, I wanted to offer a "per storm" option...Is this just not feasible? Is it too difficult to price out a per storm rate? I feel confident in my contract as a whole, but am almost stuck at what could be the most important aspect of it.

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.


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## BUFF

OneManWithAPlow said:


> I am looking to plow Residential in my town, and this is going to be my first year plowing. Ive spent countless hours determining what I am going to be getting myself into and came to the conclusion that for this coming year I am going to start small, and utilize flag-downs when available. I have about 5-7 clients definitely interested in my services and I have yet to put my name out there as I'm currently in the process of getting my contract situated.
> 
> My problem lies in that I want to offer as many possible options to the customer as I can.
> 
> Average annual snowfall is about 50 inches
> Last year we had maybe 12 inches, two years ago we had probably 100+
> 
> If I am to plow per push, for a 15x50 ft driveway and the customer notes they want a 4 inch trigger, I was thinking $40, $50 including sidewalk.
> 
> Smaller driveways would be $30, anything larger or more complicated would start at $50 driveway alone. This would be done at my discretion.
> 
> My questions arise in two areas. First:
> 
> Salt/Sand/CaCl...how does this get factored in? typically included? typically not done? charged extra? Am I charging too much? If I'm doing a slightly larger driveway and sidewalk, would I charge $80 per push at whatever trigger the customer wanted? Also for a seasonal rate...for a 50x15 driveway with a 75 ft sidewalk, how much salt would be used? Some people are saying 3x cost at $9 a bag, I feel like that area could easily eat through a bag and a half of spread. $30 on top of snow management for the property to be salted brings it to nearly $90 per push.
> 
> My second question, I wanted to offer a "per storm" option...Is this just not feasible? Is it too difficult to price out a per storm rate? I feel confident in my contract as a whole, but am almost stuck at what could be the most important aspect of it.
> 
> Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.


To start off you're general location would be helpful to determine rates since different parts of the country / states differ.

Are seasonal contracts common in your area, if so it'll be an easy sell and if not you'll have a challenge. I'm sure you know with seasonals you do well some years and others not so mulch.

I've found resi's want things cleared before they go to work and before they get home in the afternoon/evening. My resi's are all per push and I've never approached them aboot a seasonal. Check local ordinances to see at what point sidewalks along the street need to be cleared, in my area it's 1" so that's where my triggers start. Most my resi's are in subdivisions with drives 30X16 with aboot 50' of walk and I get $35 per push for 1-6", $45 for 6"-12" and 12" is $60, this include deicer if they want it. I have a couple in the county that have larger drives but no walks, they start at $50 and go up from there.

There's no reason why you'd have to spread 150# of deicer on a resi you described you're only talked about 1000sq feet. 15-20# would be more than enough depending on conditions and the product used. 3X the cost of material's is a pretty safe rate to use unless you have to make a special trip to apply.

Per storm can be dicey unless the terms are clearly stated, as I said before resi's want to cleared in the am and pm.


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## ktfbgb

Location like Buff said will greatly effect pricing. You have to figure out what your hourly cost to run your plowing business is going to be. Cost of the truck, fuel, maintenance, plow cost, plow maintenance cost, insurance costs etc. Then add how much you want to pay yourself, then add a profit margin on top of that. Service businesses usually shoot for the 15%-20% profit markup. Once you have that then figure out how long a drive will take and make sure to factor in drive time between sites. So if everything is really close like all in the same sub division, you can theoretically charge less than if your route is spread out. I say theoretically because you should charge the same if they are close together to increase profit to help even out the ones that are further out. Also what plow set up are you using? Are you running a snowblower in the bed of the truck as well?

Pick a trigger that is customary for your area and service all accounts at the same time. Do not get yourself into a situation where you have some customers that are at 2" some at 3" some at 4" etc. pick what is customary and inform them that is the trigger for your service.

For me I figure out what a half bag price is and full bag price. I have two prices for salt and charge half bag for normal drives and full bag for larger ones. I don't have any residentials that take a full bag per application and yes of course it's additional.

In my city there is an ordinance that states sidewalks have to be cleared withinn 24 hours after a storm. So we service the drives and walks up to the house during the storm and then when the storm is over we come back for final clean up and use the blower for the sidewalks unless it's a big storm then we will do the sidewalks twice just so it's easier to clear.

My prices are similar to Buffs. They are based off of $100 an hour for my truck and V plow. $65 an hour for the blower, $45 per man hour for hand shovelers. Per push is the cheapest price for the customer as you know the route and everyone gets serviced at the same time. Seasonal costs a little more. Base this off of your average amount of storms per year to figure out how many trips you will make and then add another 5-10 trips to cover your butt. One time customers get hosed. Which I think is what you are talking about with the per storm customers. Meaning they only call you if it's a bad storm and you have to add them in. I charge half hour minimum for everything so for drive and sidewalk that is $75. If it's a driveway only no walk $50. And that's for a small storm up to 6-8". If it's anything over that incharge an hour minimum and go up from there. They usually sign up for the route after that, sometimes not. Good luck.


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## ktfbgb

Oh and if your using a plow I have a damage waiver in the contract that says surface scratches and gouges are typical and not responsible for repair for any surface scratches that are non structurally damaging. Also you need to have a separate waiver you carry for flag downs that covers you not responsible for any damage to grass/sod, utilities, sprinklers etc. etc. that you can not see under the snow.


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## JustJeff

You've gotten a lot of good responses there. I personally would never have a 4" trigger. My absolute highest would be 3".


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## FredG

OP, You still have not responded with a location, You got :terribletowellowing resi's for $20 to $25 and maybe catching the walk. Personally I won't start the truck under $45. $50. Unless you got a bunch in one small area.


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## OneManWithAPlow

BUFF said:


> To start off you're general location would be helpful to determine rates since different parts of the country / states differ.
> 
> Are seasonal contracts common in your area, if so it'll be an easy sell and if not you'll have a challenge. I'm sure you know with seasonals you do well some years and others not so mulch.
> 
> I've found resi's want things cleared before they go to work and before they get home in the afternoon/evening. My resi's are all per push and I've never approached them aboot a seasonal. Check local ordinances to see at what point sidewalks along the street need to be cleared, in my area it's 1" so that's where my triggers start. Most my resi's are in subdivisions with drives 30X16 with aboot 50' of walk and I get $35 per push for 1-6", $45 for 6"-12" and 12" is $60, this include deicer if they want it. I have a couple in the county that have larger drives but no walks, they start at $50 and go up from there.
> 
> There's no reason why you'd have to spread 150# of deicer on a resi you described you're only talked about 1000sq feet. 15-20# would be more than enough depending on conditions and the product used. 3X the cost of material's is a pretty safe rate to use unless you have to make a special trip to apply.
> 
> Per storm can be dicey unless the terms are clearly stated, as I said before resi's want to cleared in the am and pm.


Okay so I'm leaning toward per push/per season depending on the client. I'm in CT and a few of my upcoming clients have done per season in the past which feels difficult to price. Do you raise/lower the price if they want de-ice? And say you have a 1 inch trigger, client wants every 1-6 inches, you get a 14 inch storm, you go out 3 times and charge $105? Does that include front walk as well as sidewalk?


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## BUFF

OneManWithAPlow said:


> Okay so I'm leaning toward per push/per season depending on the client. I'm in CT and a few of my upcoming clients have done per season in the past which feels difficult to price. Do you raise/lower the price if they want de-ice? And say you have a 1 inch trigger, client wants every 1-6 inches, you get a 14 inch storm, you go out 3 times and charge $105? Does that include front walk as well as sidewalk?


 I've had several resi's for 6-7yrs, looking back at what they're paid season to season if I did seasonal contracts it would be close to a wash with them making oot.
As I said for small resi's if they want deicer it's included since it's only 5-7# and it cost me $7.50/50# plus its just a couple minutes spread chicken feed style.
I plow my resi's in the am and late afternoon/pm unless the storm moved oot during the day then I'll plow. I tell my resi's is they have a party or like event going on to let me know and I'll service them as needed (charging accordingly), I do the same for my churches I plow.
My resi's in the subdivision are all with in a 1/4 radius of each other, each takes aboot 6-7minutes for 1-6" and I do 6 an hour at $35ea.


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## ktfbgb

Like we sa


OneManWithAPlow said:


> Okay so I'm leaning toward per push/per season depending on the client. I'm in CT and a few of my upcoming clients have done per season in the past which feels difficult to price. Do you raise/lower the price if they want de-ice? And say you have a 1 inch trigger, client wants every 1-6 inches, you get a 14 inch storm, you go out 3 times and charge $105? Does that include front walk as well as sidewalk?


Like we said above anything that requires you to open the door on truck and step out costs more. So de icer costs more, every time you apply it. This is business not charity. You need to make money on everything you do. If you don't want to charge separately then give one price that includes everything plow shovel and salt. This was outlined in the above responses. Take the time to read them. Per season is not difficult to price as long as know your numbers.


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## OneManWithAPlow

ktfbgb said:


> Location like Buff said will greatly effect pricing. You have to figure out what your hourly cost to run your plowing business is going to be. Cost of the truck, fuel, maintenance, plow cost, plow maintenance cost, insurance costs etc. Then add how much you want to pay yourself, then add a profit margin on top of that. Service businesses usually shoot for the 15%-20% profit markup. Once you have that then figure out how long a drive will take and make sure to factor in drive time between sites. So if everything is really close like all in the same sub division, you can theoretically charge less than if your route is spread out. I say theoretically because you should charge the same if they are close together to increase profit to help even out the ones that are further out. Also what plow set up are you using? Are you running a snowblower in the bed of the truck as well?
> 
> Pick a trigger that is customary for your area and service all accounts at the same time. Do not get yourself into a situation where you have some customers that are at 2" some at 3" some at 4" etc. pick what is customary and inform them that is the trigger for your service.
> 
> For me I figure out what a half bag price is and full bag price. I have two prices for salt and charge half bag for normal drives and full bag for larger ones. I don't have any residentials that take a full bag per application and yes of course it's additional.
> 
> In my city there is an ordinance that states sidewalks have to be cleared withinn 24 hours after a storm. So we service the drives and walks up to the house during the storm and then when the storm is over we come back for final clean up and use the blower for the sidewalks unless it's a big storm then we will do the sidewalks twice just so it's easier to clear.
> 
> My prices are similar to Buffs. They are based off of $100 an hour for my truck and V plow. $65 an hour for the blower, $45 per man hour for hand shovelers. Per push is the cheapest price for the customer as you know the route and everyone gets serviced at the same time. Seasonal costs a little more. Base this off of your average amount of storms per year to figure out how many trips you will make and then add another 5-10 trips to cover your butt. One time customers get hosed. Which I think is what you are talking about with the per storm customers. Meaning they only call you if it's a bad storm and you have to add them in. I charge half hour minimum for everything so for drive and sidewalk that is $75. If it's a driveway only no walk $50. And that's for a small storm up to 6-8". If it's anything over that incharge an hour minimum and go up from there. They usually sign up for the route after that, sometimes not. Good luck.


If you make two trips to the house, as you said above once for the initial push than again for the second cleaning and to hit the sidewalk, do you charge one rate? or do you charge them twice for this? say it snows 8 inches, you plow once at 4, and again after another 4, do you bill them for two pushes or one, as youre only hitting the sidewalk on the second "push"...?

Im thinking I will go with a base of $50 per drive including salt with a 2 inch trigger and $50 per 1-6 inches or if they want me to come out every 6-10 inches itll be $60 if they don't want me to come out until it hits 10 inches itll be $70. It will be a 2 man crew, the truck and a blower. Also I feel like with all the information ive obtained this seems on the lower end, if people are saying they wont get out the truck for this...I was thinking the push, than blow the sidewalk than two shovels after to clear the rest and throw de-ice chicken feed style. You mentioned that the drifts will accumulate as well as snow that's been pushed to the front from city plowing, youll come out to clear those. Is that a courtesy for the service that's already been paid for, or do you bill again for that?


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## ktfbgb

No per push pricing is usually incremental. So 1-3.9 inches is the base price for you you're saying $50. Then 4-7.9 inches is 40% more so that's $70. 8-11.9 is 40% more so $98. Typically after that it's per inch over 12 inches. So like another $20 per inch. So if it were a 15 inch storm per the NWS you would charge $158 for that storm. Not $158 every time you come out but for the storm. You would probably service them 3-4 times during that storm. Done ever let someone dictate at what interval they want you to come out. If they want route pricing then they get serviced with everyone else. If someone wants you to plow if it gets to 10 inches and not before then you treat them like a one time call out like I said above. It's hard on you and your equipment. I wouldn't do someone that waits till there is 10 inches on the ground to call you for less than one hour minimum charge so like I said for me that's $100 for the plow and if we use the blower for the walk $65 for the sidewalk and if they want de icer then like $15 for the few pounds they need so total for a job like that would be $180 for the one time service. If they pay with a card it's a 3% fee on top of that.


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## FredG

Go with the per trip at $ 35.00 $40.00. If you want to do seasonal charge your per trip by 25 or under. Add for shovel, blower 4 X's minimum wage per hr. each shovel man and a little material. double your salt cost. See where that gets you. I have no idea in your area. They could be getting $25.00 or $50.00 per drive??

I would assume your going to need at least 25 to 30 drives if thats all your doing to be somewhat happy with the earnings for yourself and the biz. Make a few bucks and invest in a pull behind cut your time down and make life easier. Good Luck


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## BUFF

OneManWithAPlow said:


> If you make two trips to the house, as you said above once for the initial push than again for the second cleaning and to hit the sidewalk, do you charge one rate? or do you charge them twice for this? say it snows 8 inches, you plow once at 4, and again after another 4, do you bill them for two pushes or one, as youre only hitting the sidewalk on the second "push"...?
> 
> Im thinking I will go with a base of $50 per drive including salt with a 2 inch trigger and $50 per 1-6 inches or if they want me to come out every 6-10 inches itll be $60 if they don't want me to come out until it hits 10 inches itll be $70. It will be a 2 man crew, the truck and a blower. Also I feel like with all the information ive obtained this seems on the lower end, if people are saying they wont get out the truck for this...I was thinking the push, than blow the sidewalk than two shovels after to clear the rest and throw de-ice chicken feed style. You mentioned that the drifts will accumulate as well as snow that's been pushed to the front from city plowing, youll come out to clear those. Is that a courtesy for the service that's already been paid for, or do you bill again for that?


Every Time I show up everything gets done, plow, walks and deicer and they get billed for every time I show up. So am and pm plow gets billed in full.

I only use a blower when the snow is 10" of deeper, by the time you unload, start and load you can have half or more of the walks done. I use SnowPlow shovels, pushers and scoop.


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## OneManWithAPlow

ktfbgb said:


> No per push pricing is usually incremental. So 1-3.9 inches is the base price for you you're saying $50. Then 4-7.9 inches is 40% more so that's $70. 8-11.9 is 40% more so $98. Typically after that it's per inch over 12 inches. So like another $20 per inch. So if it were a 15 inch storm per the NWS you would charge $158 for that storm. Not $158 every time you come out but for the storm. You would probably service them 3-4 times during that storm. Done ever let someone dictate at what interval they want you to come out. If they want route pricing then they get serviced with everyone else. If someone wants you to plow if it gets to 10 inches and not before then you treat them like a one time call out like I said above. It's hard on you and your equipment. I wouldn't do someone that waits till there is 10 inches on the ground to call you for less than one hour minimum charge so like I said for me that's $100 for the plow and if we use the blower for the walk $65 for the sidewalk and if they want de icer then like $15 for the few pounds they need so total for a job like that would be $180 for the one time service. If they pay with a card it's a 3% fee on top of that.


This makes so much more sense. So it's done on a route. Say you go up main st, and onto east st. You have 3 houses on main 2 on east st to total your 5 contracts. 2 inch trigger, snow fall hits 2 inches, you go out, 5 inch accumulation, $70 per drive you pull $350 for that storm. Next storm a week later 8 inch accumulation you pull $500 for that storm.

This leads me to two more questions. Is this including shovel work and snow blower labor factored in?

Also, if you get a lot of contracts, will customers at the beginning of your route get shafted, or do you wait until the snowfall diminishes/service twice? A 2 inch trigger, on 6 inches of snowfall you go out at 2, by the time you get your last house 5 inches have fallen, the first house already has 3 inches of snow back on the driveway? Just part of the job?

You local? For all the help you e given me I feel like I owe you a beer..


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## ktfbgb

BUFF said:


> Every Time I show up everything gets done, plow, walks and deicer and they get billed for every time I show up. So am and pm plow gets billed in full.
> 
> I only use a blower when the snow is 10" of deeper, by the time you unload, start and load you can have half or more of the walks done. I use SnowPlow shovels, pushers and scoop.


Seen a bunch about the Snow Plow shovels on here. I think I might order some for this year. I'm guessing that your snow is pretty similar to ours as we're both on the Colorado plateau. What size pushers do you use? I was looking at the 36" ones but was thinking that with some of heavy wet storms that might be too much for the guys to push?

To the OP. As you can see we all charge a little different but are usually close in our numbers as we know what our operational costs are and how long our work takes. In my example of the 15 inch storm it came out to $158 for that storm. Under Buff's example of per trip at $35 if he serviced 4 times during the storm it would be $140. That's just an $18 difference for a storm. A $20 difference in a storm over 12 inches is not going to make a huge difference between you and your competition. You need to know your numbers and then you can charge a professional price that is competative for your area. You don't need to match someone if the difference comes out to $4 per trip.


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## ktfbgb

OneManWithAPlow said:


> This makes so much more sense. So it's done on a route. Say you go up main st, and onto east st. You have 3 houses on main 2 on east st to total your 5 contracts. 2 inch trigger, snow fall hits 2 inches, you go out, 5 inch accumulation, $70 per drive you pull $350 for that storm. Next storm a week later 8 inch accumulation you pull $500 for that storm.
> 
> This leads me to two more questions. Is this including shovel work and snow blower labor factored in?
> 
> Also, if you get a lot of contracts, will customers at the beginning of your route get shafted, or do you wait until the snowfall diminishes/service twice? A 2 inch trigger, on 6 inches of snowfall you go out at 2, by the time you get your last house 5 inches have fallen, the first house already has 3 inches of snow back on the driveway? Just part of the job?
> 
> You local? For all the help you e given me I feel like I owe you a beer..


No unfortunately I'm not local. I live in Northern Arizona. Yes you want to make a route. You don't want to sit around and wait for customers to think it's time to plow and then call you. You will go out to Main Street and do one job get half way home get a call turn around to go back to main st then you get half way home get a call for east st and it goes on forever. You as the contractor set up the route and explain the rules of being on the route. Flag downs and one time calls cost more. And like Buff said above. They really don't care as long as they are plowed out before they leave for work and again before they come home. I build a route that can be serviced in 5 hours or so. Start at 3 in the morning and everyone gets hit before work. You can then get everyone again before they come home. But my route is a mix of commercial and residential.


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## OneManWithAPlow

BUFF said:


> Every Time I show up everything gets done, plow, walks and deicer and they get billed for every time I show up. So am and pm plow gets billed in full.
> 
> I only use a blower when the snow is 10" of deeper, by the time you unload, start and load you can have half or more of the walks done. I use SnowPlow shovels, pushers and scoop.


I apologize but this seemed opposite from what I was reading earlier. So it isn't incremental? Or it is, but you charge $50 in the morning for the first push, than say $30 in the evening for the second push? Do you charge a third time if they call you because the plow trucks came through and plowed in their driveway?

I guess what I want to know is, do you charge per total amount of snow moved, or snow moved per push...?

People are willing to pay $100+ per storm to have their snow managed? That sounds absurd.


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## BUFF

ktfbgb said:


> Seen a bunch about the Snow Plow shovels on here. I think I might order some for this year. I'm guessing that your snow is pretty similar to ours as we're both on the Colorado plateau. What size pushers do you use? I was looking at the 36" ones but was thinking that with some of heavy wet storms that might be too much for the guys to push?
> 
> To the OP. As you can see we all charge a little different but are usually close in our numbers as we know what our operational costs are and how long our work takes. In my example of the 15 inch storm it came out to $158 for that storm. Under Buff's example of per trip at $35 if he serviced 4 times during the storm it would be $140. That's just an $18 difference for a storm. A $20 difference in a storm over 12 inches is not going to make a huge difference between you and your competition. You need to know your numbers and then you can charge a professional price that is competative for your area. You don't need to match someone if the difference comes out to $4 per trip.


I have a 36"and 30" pushers and a couple Dominators. The 36" is great for open areas but the width can be a problem meaning short armed / little people get there feet tangled up in them when they use a radial motion to shovel. Our snow has more moisture in the fall and spring, colder months it's fluff, so yeah same stuff. Even though we're considered as being giants by some the 36" can be a handful with fall/spring snows this is why I have an assortment of sizes/styles just like most tools/firearms...


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## BUFF

OneManWithAPlow said:


> I apologize but this seemed opposite from what I was reading earlier. So it isn't incremental? Or it is, but you charge $50 in the morning for the first push, than say $30 in the evening for the second push? Do you charge a third time if they call you because the plow trucks came through and plowed in their driveway?
> 
> I guess what I want to know is, do you charge per total amount of snow moved, or snow moved per push...?
> 
> People are willing to pay $100+ per storm to have their snow managed? That sounds absurd.


My stuff is all priced incremental, they amount of snow that is on the ground is what they get charged for each per push visit. For resi's since they're small compared to a parking lot I use 1-6, 6-12, 12+. So I show up in the AM and there's 7" they get billed for the 6-12" rate, when I return (if needed) in the afternoon and there's 2" the get billed for the 1-6" rate. As I said every time I show up walks are done and deicer is spread if they require it.
I don't come back and open up the drive after the county/city plow have come through and I've never been asked to. If I was they'd be charged for the base 1-6" rate for the PITA factor.
I've never been challenged by a resi's or commercial customer aboot what or how they're charged for snow removal, so yes depending on the storm my resi's get invoices up to and over $200.00 if the storm dumps for 2-3days.


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## OneManWithAPlow

BUFF said:


> My stuff is all priced incremental, they amount of snow that is on the ground is what they get charged for each per push visit. For resi's since they're small compared to a parking lot I use 1-6, 6-12, 12+. So I show up in the AM and there's 7" they get billed for the 6-12" rate, when I return (if needed) in the afternoon and there's 2" the get billed for the 1-6" rate. As I said every time I show up walks are done and deicer is spread if they require it.
> I don't come back and open up the drive after the county/city plow have come through and I've never been asked to. If I was they'd be charged for the base 1-6" rate for the PITA factor.
> I've never been challenged by a resi's or commercial customer aboot what or how they're charged for snow removal, so yes depending on the storm my resi's get invoices up to and over $200.00 if the storm dumps for 2-3days.


that definitely cleared it up a bit for me. My only lasting concern, was that if you had a 2 inch trigger, or even 1 inch, how does 7 inches of accumulation occur? but I figure if you've got a lot of contracts by the time you get to the last one 5 hours in its quite possible that there could be quite a bit of snow. Also, do you use the weathers measurement accumulations (say channel 3 says weve got 5-6 inches) or get out the truck and stick a tape measure in the ground?


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## ktfbgb

OneManWithAPlow said:


> that definitely cleared it up a bit for me. My only lasting concern, was that if you had a 2 inch trigger, or even 1 inch, how does 7 inches of accumulation occur? but I figure if you've got a lot of contracts by the time you get to the last one 5 hours in its quite possible that there could be quite a bit of snow. Also, do you use the weathers measurement accumulations (say channel 3 says weve got 5-6 inches) or get out the truck and stick a tape measure in the ground?


The trigger means thats when you start plowing. you go out at 2 inches if thats your trigger. If there is only 1.5 inches you don't do the route. You are not guaranteeing that there will never be more than 2 inches on the driveway lol. Instead of trigger you could call it authorization to automatically plow.

And thats why different parts of the country charge different and we wanted to know where you live. I am in AZ Buff is in Colorado. our pricing out west is different than the guys in the mid west which is different than the east coast. Remember that residential plowing is a luxury service. No to be a jerk but your client base is not a family of three who both have minimum wage jobs. Client base is people who have the money to pay for it instead of bothering to do it themselves.


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## BUFF

OneManWithAPlow said:


> that definitely cleared it up a bit for me. My only lasting concern, was that if you had a 2 inch trigger, or even 1 inch, how does 7 inches of accumulation occur? but I figure if you've got a lot of contracts by the time you get to the last one 5 hours in its quite possible that there could be quite a bit of snow. Also, do you use the weathers measurement accumulations (say channel 3 says weve got 5-6 inches) or get out the truck and stick a tape measure in the ground?


 Say it starts to snow in the evening or early morning hours, when you show up in the am there can be any amount of snow depending on the strength of the storm, the same holds true if the storm rolls in during the day for the afternoon/pm plow.
Our weather patterns and bands of snow vary so much using the local TV reports isn't possible. The difference of accumulation in a couple miles can differ my several inches or a foot in some case, a trained well season eye can tell how much snow has accumulated and I use a tape measure when I'm close to a change in rates.



ktfbgb said:


> The trigger means thats when you start plowing. you go out at 2 inches if thats your trigger. If there is only 1.5 inches you don't do the route. You are not guaranteeing that there will never be more than 2 inches on the driveway lol. Instead of trigger you could call it authorization to automatically plow.
> 
> And thats why different parts of the country charge different and we wanted to know where you live. I am in AZ Buff is in Colorado. our pricing out west is different than the guys in the mid west which is different than the east coast. Remember that residential plowing is a luxury service. No to be a jerk but your client base is not a family of three who both have minimum wage jobs. Client base is people who have the money to pay for it instead of bothering to do it themselves.


You're spot on aboot the luxury service, I have several customers that have me plow their folks place too. I have two customers that I'm paid by from their kids that live 30-40miles away.


----------



## OneManWithAPlow

ktfbgb said:


> The trigger means thats when you start plowing. you go out at 2 inches if thats your trigger. If there is only 1.5 inches you don't do the route. You are not guaranteeing that there will never be more than 2 inches on the driveway lol. Instead of trigger you could call it authorization to automatically plow.
> 
> And thats why different parts of the country charge different and we wanted to know where you live. I am in AZ Buff is in Colorado. our pricing out west is different than the guys in the mid west which is different than the east coast. Remember that residential plowing is a luxury service. No to be a jerk but your client base is not a family of three who both have minimum wage jobs. Client base is people who have the money to pay for it instead of bothering to do it themselves.


I get what the trigger means, but what I'm asking is, if you start your route at 1 inch (1 inch trigger), do you EVER get to 12 inches of accumulation? Is it the same customers (at the end of the route) that get shafted over and over again with a higher rate just because it takes you longer to get to them? I appreciate the insight on it being a luxury. That definitely helps a bit.


----------



## ktfbgb

To the OP it's the same here. Where I live the southwest side of our town can get 24" of snow in an 18 hour period, 5 miles to the other side of town in the same period of time we can get 11" out of the same storm. Up here we have reporting for accumulations for several spots in town reported by the National Weather Service. However since it varies so much I check with a tape measure as well and use my smart phone to document it. As long as you are reputable people won't question you and you can use the documentation for your records to track snow events etc. I have only ever had to show a picture one time and it was the opposite of what you think. A lot of my customers in my area don't live here and it's their second or third or fourth home. I plow for them in case they come up or have a friend coming into town as well as keeping it open in case there is an emergency and first responders need clear access to the house. So they questioned me about the storm as they were not home and said well the news said that we got 24" of snow. But at their location they only had 16" so they were questioning why I didn't charge more lol. Anyway that's how you keep long term customers.

You're spot on aboot the luxury service, I have several customers that have me plow their folks place too. I have two customers that I'm paid by from their kids that live 30-40miles away.[/QUOTE]

Thumbs Up I love it!


----------



## ktfbgb

OneManWithAPlow said:


> I get what the trigger means, but what I'm asking is, if you start your route at 1 inch (1 inch trigger), do you EVER get to 12 inches of accumulation? Is it the same customers (at the end of the route) that get shafted over and over again with a higher rate just because it takes you longer to get to them? I appreciate the insight on it being a luxury. That definitely helps a bit.


That's why you make sure your route isn't so big that it's going to accumulate that much before you get to it again. Don't get me wrong in blizzard situations it can happen but it's not the norm and everyone gets shafted the same because it's Mother Nature that we are battling and most understand as no one can keep up. But is sounds like you only get about 50" inches a year average so that won't happen much. We get double that average and up to 150" on bad years. During those blizzards business the interstates even the university here shut down anyway as not even the government plows can keep up. Don't try to overthink it. You'll get into a situation where all you can do analyze it and never take any action. Don't do that. Do your due diligence like you are but at some point make the call,jump in, and get it done. You'll learn a lot if you take good notes and can adjust next year.


----------



## BUFF

OneManWithAPlow said:


> I get what the trigger means, but what I'm asking is, if you start your route at 1 inch (1 inch trigger), do you EVER get to 12 inches of accumulation? Is it the same customers (at the end of the route) that get shafted over and over again with a higher rate just because it takes you longer to get to them? I appreciate the insight on it being a luxury. That definitely helps a bit.


 I give my customers a time range I'll be there the am and pm depending on what end of the route there on dictates when they get serviced. The last thing you want to do is zig-zag back and forth across your route because someone thinks they're getting hosed. If you have customers that would pull that crap you have two choices, charge them a PITA (hassle) fee or drop them. I'd drop them because they'll never be happy and piss/moan aboot everything.


----------



## OneManWithAPlow

You guys are seriously both ****ing awesome. Would you guys mind looking over my contract in the next couple weeks just from an experienced standpoint and letting me know how it looks? At least the pricing structure aspect of it..


----------



## Defcon 5

Lots of good info...The residential side of the business I kept pretty basic and to the point...The simpler for the customer the better..

I used to offer what I called at the time a hybrid seasonal...I would offer them a 10 push price and it would be X amount for that...If they wanted in front of the garage and walk done the price went up $100 per 10 pushes..


These were neighborhoods with pretty simple drives...two cars wide by Six to ten cars long...

Example of what I was doing...The 10 push seasonal for those drives would be $250 without the walk...With the walk it would be $350...Two inch trigger..

Before any of you plow experts call me a lowballer...a properly equipped truck could do atleast 10 drives an hour....That's $250 an hour per truck

The key to making money is...Tight route...Don't need to be driving all over BFE chasing a $25 driveway...

Find neighborhoods and Flyer or go door to door in the fall...I made way more money per truck hour doing residential than any commercial account


----------



## BUFF

OneManWithAPlow said:


> You guys are seriously both ******* awesome. Would you guys mind looking over my contract in the next couple weeks just from an experienced standpoint and letting me know how it looks? At least the pricing structure aspect of it..


 I wood advise you to have you're attorney review terms and liability since things can vary from state to state especially since we're oot west.
I'll look over the other piece if ewe'd like.


----------



## BUFF

Defcon 5 said:


> Lots of good info...The residential side of the business I kept pretty basic and to the point...The simpler for the customer the better..
> 
> I used to offer what I called at the time a hybrid seasonal...I would offer them a 10 push price and it would be X amount for that...If they wanted in front of the garage and walk done the price went up $100 per 10 pushes..
> 
> These were neighborhoods with pretty simple drives...two cars wide by Six to ten cars long...
> 
> Example of what I was doing...The 10 push seasonal for those drives would be $250 without the walk...With the walk it would be $350...Two inch trigger..
> 
> Before any of you plow experts call me a lowballer...a properly equipped truck could do atleast 10 drives an hour....That's $250 an hour per truck
> 
> The key to making money is...Tight route...Don't need to be driving all over BFE chasing a $25 driveway...
> 
> Find neighborhoods and Flyer or go door to door in the fall...I made way more money per truck hour doing residential than any commercial account


Low Baller......
You're market is a tough one and it's reflective with your pricing. Yes a pickup with a Ebling on a back in a tight route is the way to go...
Speaking of going..... oof to the brew pub for some full bodied Scottish Ales so stay tuned for drunk posting in a few hours....


----------



## Defcon 5

BUFF said:


> Low Baller......
> You're market is a tough one and it's reflective with your pricing. Yes a pickup with a Ebling on a back in a tight route is the way to go...
> Speaking of going..... oof to the brew pub for some full bodied Scottish Ales so stay tuned for drunk posting in a few hours....


8 pints tonight????....Yes..This market is tough...But you can make money...Being efficient is the key...


----------



## FredG

BUFF said:


> Low Baller......
> You're market is a tough one and it's reflective with your pricing. Yes a pickup with a Ebling on a back in a tight route is the way to go...
> Speaking of going..... oof to the brew pub for some full bodied Scottish Ales so stay tuned for drunk posting in a few hours....


Enjoy, I'm looking forward to the drunk posts, Probably be more interesting if i'm drunk to. off to the Tavern.


----------



## ktfbgb

Defcon 5 said:


> Lots of good info...The residential side of the business I kept pretty basic and to the point...The simpler for the customer the better..
> 
> I used to offer what I called at the time a hybrid seasonal...I would offer them a 10 push price and it would be X amount for that...If they wanted in front of the garage and walk done the price went up $100 per 10 pushes..
> 
> These were neighborhoods with pretty simple drives...two cars wide by Six to ten cars long...
> 
> Example of what I was doing...The 10 push seasonal for those drives would be $250 without the walk...With the walk it would be $350...Two inch trigger..
> 
> Before any of you plow experts call me a lowballer...a properly equipped truck could do atleast 10 drives an hour....That's $250 an hour per truck
> 
> The key to making money is...Tight route...Don't need to be driving all over BFE chasing a $25 driveway...
> 
> Find neighborhoods and Flyer or go door to door in the fall...I made way more money per truck hour doing residential than any commercial account


I've been throwing around the idea of a hybrid as well! There is something to be said for not having to do all that paperwork and invoicing. Right now my seasonals for a standard drive and walk in front of the house, not a corner lot, I charge $675 for the year. I drop it to $600 if they pay in full by end of October. Many opt for monthly payments with a credit card which square and quickbooks make super easy to set up recurring payments. I charge $75 to get on the route at the beginning and then charge $100 monthly November through April on recurring automatic credit card charge. Works good for me. But maybe a hybrid would get me a few more because of the lower cost. We will always get more than 10 pushes here with the amount of snow we get but some home owners just can't see that far out. So they opt for incremental pricing. I just hate all the paperwork.


----------



## Defcon 5

ktfbgb said:


> The trigger means thats when you start plowing. you go out at 2 inches if thats your trigger. If there is only 1.5 inches you don't do the route. You are not guaranteeing that there will never be more than 2 inches on the driveway lol. Instead of trigger you could call it authorization to automatically plow.
> 
> And thats why different parts of the country
> 
> charge different and we wanted to know where you live. I am in AZ Buff is in Colorado. our
> pricing out west is different than the guys in the mid west which is different than the east coast. Remember that residential plowing is a luxury service. No to be a jerk but your client base is not a family of three who both have
> 
> minimum wage jobs. Client base is people who have the money to pay for it instead of bothering to do it themselves.


.......



ktfbgb said:


> The trigger means thats when you start plowing. you go out at 2 inches if thats your trigger. If there is only 1.5 inches you don't do the route. You are not guaranteeing that there will never be more than 2 inches on the driveway lol. Instead of trigger you could call it authorization to automatically plow.
> 
> And thats why different parts of the country charge different and we wanted to know where you live. I am in AZ Buff is in Colorado. our pricing out west is different than the guys in the mid west which is different than the east coast. Remember that residential plowing is a luxury service. No to be a jerk but your client base is not a family of three who both have minimum wage jobs. Client base is people who have the money to pay for it instead of bothering to do it themselves.


----------



## Defcon 5

ktfbgb said:


> The trigger means thats when you start plowing. you go out at 2 inches if thats your trigger. If there is only 1.5 inches you don't do the route. You are not guaranteeing that there will never be more than 2 inches on the driveway lol. Instead of trigger you could call it authorization to automatically plow.
> 
> And thats why different parts of the country
> 
> charge different and we wanted to know where
> you live. I am in AZ Buff is in Colorado. our pricing out west is different than the guys in the mid west which is different than the east coast. Remember that residential plowing is a luxury service. No to be a jerk but your client base is not a family of three who both have minimum wage jobs. Client base is people who have the
> money to pay for it instead of bothering to do it themselves.


Very nice part of the country you live in....Been there a handful of times...I have found with customers...The simpler the better...You pay X amount and you get this


----------



## ktfbgb

Defcon 5 said:


> Very nice part of the country you live in....Been there a handful of times...I have found with customers...The simpler the better...You pay X amount and you get this


 Thanks I love it here. I don't think I could ever live anywhere else. Colorado or Wyoming maybe but I don't want to spend the time building a contracting business somewhere else.

And I couldn't agree more the simpler the better. I find that when trying to explain the incremental storm payments like xx up to 4 inches xx 4-8 etc then I explain the season an even though it may come out to more money for them in the light years the response tends to be "ok so I can get invoices from you after every storm with varying prices for different snow amounts or I can just pay once with a credit card or I can spread it out automatically for the same price every month? I think I'll go with seasonal it's simpler"


----------



## FredG

Defcon 5 said:


> Lots of good info...The residential side of the business I kept pretty basic and to the point...The simpler for the customer the better..
> 
> I used to offer what I called at the time a hybrid seasonal...I would offer them a 10 push price and it would be X amount for that...If they wanted in front of the garage and walk done the price went up $100 per 10 pushes..
> 
> These were neighborhoods with pretty simple drives...two cars wide by Six to ten cars long...
> 
> Example of what I was doing...The 10 push seasonal for those drives would be $250 without the walk...With the walk it would be $350...Two inch trigger..
> 
> Before any of you plow experts call me a lowballer...a properly equipped truck could do atleast 10 drives an hour....That's $250 an hour per truck
> 
> The key to making money is...Tight route...Don't need to be driving all over BFE chasing a $25 driveway...
> 
> Find neighborhoods and Flyer or go door to door in the fall...I made way more money per truck hour doing residential than any commercial account





Defcon 5 said:


> Very nice part of the country you live in....Been there a handful of times...I have found with customers...The simpler the better...You pay X amount and you get this


Take a motorcycle ride between Phoenix and Flagstaff. If you don't pop um you never will. Plenty of places to open it up some.


----------



## Defcon 5

ktfbgb said:


> Thanks I love it here. I don't think I could ever live anywhere else. Colorado or Wyoming maybe but I don't want to spend the time building a contracting business somewhere else.
> 
> And I couldn't agree more the simpler the better. I find that when trying to explain the incremental storm payments like xx up to 4
> 
> inches xx 4-8 etc then I explain the season an even though it may come out to more money for them in the light years the response tends to be "ok so I can get invoices from you after
> every storm with varying prices for different
> snow amounts or I can just pay once with a credit card or I can spread it out automatically for the same price every month? I think I'll go with seasonal it's simpler"


A good majority I would say 75% of my resi. Accounts were pre pay..The other were on a 4 payment installment...I would sell them on the prepay by showing them it would be let's say $250...If they went the installment route it would be $280...It's amazing how many people will jump at the chance to save $30 bucks

The best part of it was no billing for me..With the amount of driveways I was doing at the time...That was a huge savings of time and money


----------



## ktfbgb

FredG said:


> Take a motorcycle ride between Phoenix and Flagstaff. If you don't pop um you never will. Plenty of places to open it up some.


:laugh: That's the truth. I ride as well. I-17 between Phoenix and Flag is super dangerous though so most locals avoid it like the plague and use other routes but sometimes you can't avoid it. If you ever come out this way let me know. We can take some amazing rides like flag to Sedona down the famous switch backs on 89A then over to Jerome and then hit the mother road back to flag for example. Grand Canyon is a fun day trip from here too.


----------



## Defcon 5

FredG said:


> Take a motorcycle ride between Phoenix and Flagstaff. If you don't pop um you never will. Plenty of places to open it up some.


Parents lived in Tucson....


----------



## Defcon 5

ktfbgb said:


> :laugh: That's the truth. I ride as well. I-17 between Phoenix and Flag is super dangerous though so most locals avoid it like the plague and use other routes but sometimes you can't avoid it. If you ever come out this way let me know. We can take some amazing rides like flag
> 
> to Sedona down the famous switch backs on 89A then over to Jerome and then hit the mother road back to flag for example. Grand Canyon is a fun day trip from here too.


Sedona is absolutely stunning...Better bring your crystals to hang out with the hippies...Lol


----------



## ktfbgb

Defcon 5 said:


> Sedona is absolutely stunning...Better bring your crystals to hang out with the hippies...Lol


Ha! Yep take the crystals down to the "healing vortex". Don't forget to wear your Birkenstocks while hiking to said vortex so you can dance with the rattle snakes. And then after word we can all go to slide rock and swim in the poo water with everyone else lol.


----------



## FredG

Defcon 5 said:


> Parents lived in Tucson....


My whole family just about lived in Phoenix. It all started when a family member had lung issues and needed the dry climate. Tucson is nice I had a aunt and uncle there.


----------



## FredG

Defcon 5 said:


> Sedona is absolutely stunning...Better bring your crystals to hang out with the hippies...Lol


Red rock Sedona, Really cool.


----------



## ktfbgb

FredG said:


> My whole family just about lived in Phoenix. It all started when a family member had lung issues and needed the dry climate. Tucson is nice I had a aunt and uncle there.


We like to go down to Phoenix in the winter. It's amazing being able to drive 2 hours and be in 70 degree weather for a day when it's been 0 degrees at night with a -10 wind chill for 5 days straight! I just can't do 118 degrees in the summer.


----------



## BUFF

Me and Az have a dynamic relationship , been arrested, been stuck in the desert for a couple days due to a blown trans, seen many interesting things in Havasu, stopped by the 4 corners one time on the way home with a girlfriend to "connect" in four states at once and whizzed into the canyon with my son on the east side....
Now let's get back on topic....


----------



## Defcon 5

BUFF said:


> Me and Az have a dynamic relationship , been arrested, been stuck in the desert for a couple days due to a blown trans, seen many interesting things in Havasu, stopped by the 4 corners one time on the way home with a girlfriend to "connect" in four states at once
> and whizzed into the canyon with my son on the
> east side....
> Now let's get back on topic....


I see the Pints are kicking in.....


----------



## Defcon 5

ktfbgb said:


> We like to go down to Phoenix in the winter. It's amazing being able to drive 2 hours and be in 70 degree weather for a day when it's been 0 degrees at night with a -10 wind chill for 5 days straight! I just can't do 118 degrees in the summer.


It's a "Dry" Heat.....Lmao...


----------



## BUFF

Defcon 5 said:


> I see the Pints are kicking in.....


Yes they are/were....... My son dropped me off on his way to work and picked me up on his way home after 11 pints.....
Now on with the show....


----------



## OneManWithAPlow

Defcon 5 said:


> Lots of good info...The residential side of the business I kept pretty basic and to the point...The simpler for the customer the better..
> 
> I used to offer what I called at the time a hybrid seasonal...I would offer them a 10 push price and it would be X amount for that...If they wanted in front of the garage and walk done the price went up $100 per 10 pushes..
> 
> These were neighborhoods with pretty simple drives...two cars wide by Six to ten cars long...
> 
> Example of what I was doing...The 10 push seasonal for those drives would be $250 without the walk...With the walk it would be $350...Two inch trigger..
> 
> Before any of you plow experts call me a lowballer...a properly equipped truck could do atleast 10 drives an hour....That's $250 an hour per truck
> 
> The key to making money is...Tight route...Don't need to be driving all over BFE chasing a $25 driveway...
> 
> Find neighborhoods and Flyer or go door to door in the fall...I made way more money per truck hour doing residential than any commercial account


I like this. I think I will go with a "hybrid" option as well offering the first 10 pushes for $370 ($340 if paid in full by 10/31) and $35 for every subsequent push up to 6 inches with regular pricing as follows just to offer a simpler option for customers. I will also offer a refund option/cancellation policy, charging the hourly rate for completed pushes and refunding the remainder of the balance if not exceeding $370($340).


----------



## ktfbgb

OneManWithAPlow said:


> I like this. I think I will go with a "hybrid" option as well offering the first 10 pushes for $370 ($340 if paid in full by 10/31) and $35 for every subsequent push up to 6 inches with regular pricing as follows just to offer a simpler option for customers. I will also offer a refund option/cancellation policy, charging the hourly rate for completed pushes and refunding the remainder of the balance if not exceeding $370($340).


No!No! No! Never offer a refund policy. With a seasonal price you are taking all the risk and there is very little risk for the customer. They get to pay a single price for the year no matter how much it snows. You on the other hand are hoping it doesn't snow much so that the cost will even out over several years with that customer to cover the heave above average years. You will go broke if you offer a refund policy in long term. This service like any other contracting service is a business. You are not in it for charity. The primary goal for any business no matter how small is always profit. Please don't take the acccounts away from another business if this is how you want to run it as you will be taking food off of their families table.


----------



## SnoFarmer

what's a refund?

we don't even offer store credit.


----------



## OneManWithAPlow

ktfbgb said:


> No!No! No! Never offer a refund policy. With a seasonal price you are taking all the risk and there is very little risk for the customer. They get to pay a single price for the year no matter how much it snows. You on the other hand are hoping it doesn't snow much so that the cost will even out over several years with that customer to cover the heave above average years. You will go broke if you offer a refund policy in long term. This service like any other contracting service is a business. You are not in it for charity. The primary goal for any business no matter how small is always profit. Please don't take the acccounts away from another business if this is how you want to run it as you will be taking food off of their families table.


Understood. I actually got the idea from this site lol someone on here said - for example - $350 hybrid for 10 pushes. 3 pushes into the season, they request contract termination. Contract is terminated but work done is billed at min hourly rate of $100/hr totaling $300 for the 3 pushes, than $50 refunded.

That being said, I will trust your experienced input. I have one more question in regards to a hybrid rate. If I offer 10 pushes for $370 up front, to promote simplicity and eliminate some paperwork, does that mean they get charged the "1-6 inch" rate regardless of snow depth since it's already been "paid"? Is it operating under the assumption of efficiency and being confident you'd be able to clear snow prior to the second tier accumulation? This question is geared more towards Defcon 5, but all input is welcome.


----------



## ktfbgb

OneManWithAPlow said:


> Understood. I actually got the idea from this site lol someone on here said - for example - $350 hybrid for 10 pushes. 3 pushes into the season, they request contract termination. Contract is terminated but work done is billed at min hourly rate of $100/hr totaling $300 for the 3 pushes, than $50 refunded.
> 
> That being said, I will trust your experienced input. I have one more question in regards to a hybrid rate. If I offer 10 pushes for $370 up front, to promote simplicity and eliminate some paperwork, does that mean they get charged the "1-6 inch" rate regardless of snow depth since it's already been "paid"? Is it operating under the assumption of efficiency and being confident you'd be able to clear snow prior to the second tier accumulation? This question is geared more towards Defcon 5, but all input is welcome.


If your offering a seasonal price then that's what the they pay for the entire season no matter how much snow there is. Seasonal is seasonal. That's why ther is no refund. If you get twice the amount of snow this year than you average you don't get to charge more. You hope to have a below average season next year to make up for the pounding you took. If you are going to offer a hybrid like was stated above with a price for the season up to 10 pushes and then it will cost x amount per push after that then that's the price for 10 pushes. It doesn't matter how much it snows for those ten. Your contract is for ten. Not for ten snows of accumulations of 1-6".


----------



## ktfbgb

Like I said earlier in the thread you are out thinking yourself and trying to make it too complicated. 

Seasonal contract means one price for entire year no matter how much snow you get. Reguardless if you show up to the house 5 times or 45 times. Benefits include you have money up front to help cover operational costs and float payroll while waiting for payment after storms from customers who aren't seasonal. The customer typically pays a little more for this kind of contract but their snow removal cost is fixed and they know what they will pay. Drawbacks to this approach include if you figure the number of events incorrectly or you have an abnormally high snow year you make less money. For the client the opposite is true they are risking that you may have an abnormally dry year so they pay more for less. A hybrid would would kind of even this out for both parties. Some have a blizzard clause instead to cover large storms but your just starting out so don't get into that yet.

Per push or per visit pricing. You charge x amount every time you show up when there is a storm that meets the requirement of the contract. You get paid for everything you do and the customer only pays for what they recieve. The problem with this is all the billing paperwork for you and chasing down money. Problem for client is they don't know how much the season will cost.

Incremental pricing where a storm of 1-4 costs x amount, 4-8 costs xx amount, and so on. Each accumulation rate is charged the same no matter how many times you have to plow. Less paperwork for you. Same disadvantages for as above for client. 

Hourly pricing is just that. Most out east don't use it. A lot of guys use it out here for commercial and you have to have minimum charges to make any money. I wouldn't worry about this model if I were you.


----------



## OneManWithAPlow

ktfbgb said:


> If your offering a seasonal price then that's what the they pay for the entire season no matter how much snow there is. Seasonal is seasonal. That's why ther is no refund. If you get twice the amount of snow this year than you average you don't get to charge more. You hope to have a below average season next year to make up for the pounding you took. If you are going to offer a hybrid like was stated above with a price for the season up to 10 pushes and then it will cost x amount per push after that then that's the price for 10 pushes. It doesn't matter how much it snows for those ten. Your contract is for ten. Not for ten snows of accumulations of 1-6".


Yes. I'm not offering a seasonal price. I'm offering two options- per push, and a hybrid 10 push rate. There's housing across the street from me in a private court with about 15 houses with small driveways and no sidewalks that would be a good candidate for the hybrid rate as I can offer a good rate with high efficiency as Defcon has noted.


----------



## ktfbgb

OneManWithAPlow said:


> Yes. I'm not offering a seasonal price. I'm offering two options- per push, and a hybrid 10 push rate. There's housing across the street from me in a private court with about 15 houses with small driveways and no sidewalks that would be a good candidate for the hybrid rate as I can offer a good rate with high efficiency as Defcon has noted.


Ok cause you were saying that you would offer a 10 push rate but then wanted to know if it was more if it was over 6".


----------



## SnoFarmer

per push is not seasonal.
nether is offering 10 pushes @$$

Ive never lost my shirt on seasonal.
you just have to price each drive accordingly.
My seasonal range from $500-$1500. unlimited pushes, unlimited snow depth- blizzards included, 1" trigger, no salt, no shoveling and i dont get the paper.
A two payment option is available, 1st payment due Nov 1st & 2nd Jan1st.
contract runs from Nov 1st to May 1st.

i only give a seasonal rate to residential drives, lots are per push with a blizzard clause


----------



## OneManWithAPlow

SnoFarmer said:


> per push is not seasonal.
> nether is offering 10 pushes @$$
> 
> Ive never lost my shirt on seasonal.
> you just have to price each drive accordingly.
> My seasonal range from $500-$1500. unlimited pushes, unlimited snow depth- blizzards included, 1" trigger, no salt, no shoveling and i dont get the paper.
> A two payment option is available, 1st payment due Nov 1st & 2nd Jan1st.
> contract runs from Nov 1st to May 1st.
> 
> i only give a seasonal rate to residential drives, lots are per push with a blizzard clause


Yes I understand. This season, I will offer per push, as well as a hybrid option. Once I can use this opportunity to get my timing/pricing down, I will consider a seasonal price for future seasons. Its difficult in the northeast, weather can change at the drop of a hat - not to take anything away from the rest of the north....


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## FredG

OneManWithAPlow said:


> Yes I understand. This season, I will offer per push, as well as a hybrid option. Once I can use this opportunity to get my timing/pricing down, I will consider a seasonal price for future seasons. Its difficult in the northeast, weather can change at the drop of a hat - not to take anything away from the rest of the north....


I'm not sure about the weather in CT. I base my seasonal on 24 to 25 trips per season. Might do 10 trips might do 25. Maybe drives are different, I just have a select few besides charity events for family, friends.


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## ktfbgb

FredG said:


> I'm not sure about the weather in CT. I base my seasonal on 24 to 25 trips per season. Might do 10 trips might do 25. Maybe drives are different, I just have a select few besides charity events for family, friends.


I also use 25 trips.


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## OneManWithAPlow

FredG said:


> I'm not sure about the weather in CT. I base my seasonal on 24 to 25 trips per season. Might do 10 trips might do 25. Maybe drives are different, I just have a select few besides charity events for family, friends.





ktfbgb said:


> I also use 25 trips.


What are your average annual snowfalls? The worst winter I can remember was about 2-3 years ago, we had probably 36 inches of snow in 2 weeks on top of what we normally get which would have been hell. I think here, if I needed to make 25 trips it would probably be a record winter, but I also understand that for seasonal, its better to be safe than sorry.


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## BUFF

You can get average snowfall and storm data going back 10yrs for historical data from the NWS online. This wood be a place to start when figuring oot seasonal contracts.
If you play it safe you can price yourself oot of the market.


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## OneManWithAPlow

BUFF said:


> You can get average snowfall and storm data going back 10yrs for historical data from the NWS online. This wood be a place to start when figuring oot seasonal contracts.
> If you play it safe you can price yourself oot of the market.


Once I get to the NWS website, where do I go for this information? They have a pretty poor layout...


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## ktfbgb

OneManWithAPlow said:


> What are your average annual snowfalls? The worst winter I can remember was about 2-3 years ago, we had probably 36 inches of snow in 2 weeks on top of what we normally get which would have been hell. I think here, if I needed to make 25 trips it would probably be a record winter, but I also understand that for seasonal, its better to be safe than sorry.


Average snowfall for us is 104" per year. Highest on record was 200". It's normal for us to get 2 feet of snow with one storm in a 24-36 hour period. It's normal. No one even bats an eye at it.


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## OneManWithAPlow

ktfbgb said:


> Average snowfall for us is 104" per year. Highest on record was 200". It's normal for us to get 2 feet of snow with one storm in a 24-36 hour period. It's normal. No one even bats an eye at it.


Here we will probably get one 2 foot storm every other year. Last year all year we got a total of about 15 inches which is the least I can ever remember. If I were to charge a seasonal for 25 pushes it would most definitely put me out of the competitive market. Our normal storms are about 8-12 inches and well get about 3 of them with other occasional accumulation and smaller storms of about 3-5 inches every couple weeks.

As you may have noticed, this is going to be part time work, with a full time commitment.


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## ktfbgb

OneManWithAPlow said:


> Here we will probably get one 2 foot storm every other year. Last year all year we got a total of about 15 inches which is the least I can ever remember. If I were to charge a seasonal for 25 pushes it would most definitely put me out of the competitive market. Our normal storms are about 8-12 inches and well get about 3 of them with other occasional accumulation and smaller storms of about 3-5 inches every couple weeks.
> 
> As you may have noticed, this is going to be part time work, with a full time commitment.


Yep that's why each area is different. And you need to figure out what the maximum the market will bear in your area and charge that. I know it's scary but you shouldn't get every quote you give. If you do your charging too little. I used to shoot for getting 75% of what I bid. Now I shoot for 60% of what I bid. I'm more established though and I'm at a place in my company where I only want to work with that 60% of clients anyway


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## BUFF

OneManWithAPlow said:


> Once I get to the NWS website, where do I go for this information? They have a pretty poor layout...


Try this, https://snowfall.weatherdb.com/d/a/Connecticut data is supplied by NOAA


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## OneManWithAPlow

BUFF said:


> Try this, https://snowfall.weatherdb.com/d/a/Connecticut data is supplied by NOAA


Only goes back as far as last year, which was our weakest winter (snow-wise) in my lifetime.


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## BUFF

OneManWithAPlow said:


> Only goes back as far as last year, which was our weakest winter (snow-wise) in my lifetime.


Not to be a wanker but I have nothing to gain by searching data for you, you'll have to invest the time yourself.


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## OneManWithAPlow

BUFF said:


> Not to be a wanker but I have nothing to gain by searching data for you, you'll have to invest the time yourself.


man no problem at all! I appreciate the links haha I just couldn't figure out the NWS website! But thank you for the help


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## OneManWithAPlow

im not lookin for ahandout by any means, I got much more from all of you than I was expecting and appreciate it entirely


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## ktfbgb

OneManWithAPlow said:


> im not lookin for ahandout by any means, I got much more from all of you than I was expecting and appreciate it entirely


The fact that you are on here asking legitimate questions and thinking about all these different things tell me that you are going to do fine. Your not just going out there blind and so if you continue to be critical and analyze your business on a continual basis you are going to be fine. Get out there and hustle and take really good notes in a way you can find the information later. The first year will be rough but you'll learn a lot and you can adjust from there. Don't get lulled into a feeling of complacency after a couple years keep adjusting and keep pushing for growth. And finally always stand behind your work. Go out of your way to make everything you do perfect all the time every time. You will build a customer base that will be with you for life.


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## JMHConstruction

Oneman, after reading through this thread I think your biggest problem with seasonal is your mindset. You have too much of the what I call "Walmart mindset" and running a business you have to get rid of that. You can't be afraid to say "it will be $300 for the season" just because you don't think the customer will like that, and would rather hear $35 per event.

I'm not sure if that makes sense, other than in my head. From what I can tell, and maybe I'm wrong, you seem to be looking out for your customer too much. Yes, you want to keep your customer happy, but this is a business and it will feed your family through the winter. You were nervous about charging to clear snow more than once a storm, you wanted to give refunds, and you want to do a hybrid seasonal. You don't want the customers that flip over the price. You're offering a service, get paid for it.

I do like the idea of the hybrid, but use it as a last resort. Maybe the customer is on the fence about a season, then suggest the hybrid. Up sell, don't down sell. If they want the hybrid, then make sure you get more than a per push rate after your 10 pushes (or however you do it). If you get a harsh winter then maybe next year they want full seasonal because it would have saved them money in the previous year. Snow removal is expensive to operate, you can't make real plans, it kills your equipment, you are on call, and you never know when you're going home. Don't be afraid to charge what you need to make it worth going out.


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## SFCarmyvet

You got so many great responses, thanks for sharing your question and all the responses.


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## OneManWithAPlow

SFCarmyvet said:


> You got so many great responses, thanks for sharing your question and all the responses.


Absoltely, I really did. A lot of good people on this website. So far this is all real new to me and the plowing community has been great. I'm also on the hunt for an 8-9 fisher MM and stumbled upon a local guy on his day off...Had probably 50+ blowers and 20+ brand new trucks(2014+) wjth fisher setups...I asked him if he was a dealer(he wasn't, just been in the business a while), and he put down his beer to make personal phone calls to try and find me a plow.


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## MSsnowplowing

Here you go.
Good luck, residential is hard depending where you are, guys in my area start at $20 to $25 a driveway, $10-$15 for a sidewalk.

You can tweak the numbers and do every 4 inches.

The few Residences I do, I charge the amount of the snow storm and give them this as pricing so they know if we get a 3 inch storm they pay x amount and if we get a 6 inch storm they pay x amount and so on.
*
Plowing only at 2"- 3.9" mark*

2"-3.9" storm $_________ 
4"-6.9" storm $_________ 
7"-9.9" storm $_________ 
10"-12.9" storm $_________ 
From 13 inches on up there will be an additional cost of $________ every 1-3.9 inches

Sanding Cost at end of storm $______

*Ice Storms and 1.9 or less Inch storms*
In the event that there is icy conditions or 1.9 inch of snow or less that warrant sanding with Sand/Salt, Said application of Sand/Salt will cost $_________ per application.

For 1.9 inch storms or less this service will be completed upon verbal orders from you.

*Sidewalks / Stoops - (Sanding done with Rock Salt)*

2"-3.9" storm $_________
4"-6.9" storm $_________
7"-9.9" storm $_________
10"-12.9" storm $_________
From 13 inches on up there will be an additional cost of $________ every 1-3.9 inches


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## MSsnowplowing

OneManWithAPlow said:


> Absoltely, I really did. A lot of good people on this website. So far this is all real new to me and the plowing community has been great. I'm also on the hunt for an 8-9 fisher MM and stumbled upon a local guy on his day off...Had probably 50+ blowers and 20+ brand new trucks(2014+) wjth fisher setups...I asked him if he was a dealer(he wasn't, just been in the business a while), and he put down his beer to make personal phone calls to try and find me a plow.


If your near Franklin, I suggest Smiths Jeeps, he deals in Western's and during the winter he is open during storms no matter what time it is.
I lost my hoses my first year of plowing -(think a rock kicked up and put a hole in one) at 2am, drove down there and got them replaced and was back out plowing.
Been his customer ever since and wouldn't go anywhere else. -(carry a spare hose and fluid)


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## ktfbgb

-(carry a spare hose and fluid)

X-2 and make a kit with every size wrench for every fastener/hose coupling that is on the plow etc.


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## MSsnowplowing

also you better rethink your numbers.
been tracking snow fall amounts for a while now and the numbers keep going up -(so much for global warming)
The trend I see is 3 years of average to above average snow fall, 1 year of light then another 3 years and 1 light -(which we got last year, so due for the next 3 years of good snow)
2008 38 inches
2009 39 inches 23 inch blizzard
2010 60 inches 18 inch blizzard
2011 17 inches
2012 61 inches 36 inch blizzard
2013 52 inches 
2014 75 inches 30 inch blizzard
2015 29 inches


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## OneManWithAPlow

MSsnowplowing said:


> also you better rethink your numbers.
> been tracking snow fall amounts for a while now and the numbers keep going up -(so much for global warming)
> The trend I see is 3 years of average to above average snow fall, 1 year of light then another 3 years and 1 light -(which we got last year, so due for the next 3 years of good snow)
> 2008 38 inches
> 2009 39 inches 23 inch blizzard
> 2010 60 inches 18 inch blizzard
> 2011 17 inches
> 2012 61 inches 36 inch blizzard
> 2013 52 inches
> 2014 75 inches 30 inch blizzard
> 2015 29 inches


Unfortunately I'm actually in the Hartford area! but that is good to know, I appreciate the information. That actually kinda gets into what I was wondering next...Ill make a spare thread if I cant find any previously started, but what are some things that should ALWAYS be kept in a plow truck?


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## MSsnowplowing

OneManWithAPlow said:


> Unfortunately I'm actually in the Hartford area! but that is good to know, I appreciate the information. That actually kinda gets into what I was wondering next...Ill make a spare thread if I cant find any previously started, but what are some things that should ALWAYS be kept in a plow truck?


Your only 1/2 hour 45 minutes from me so snow fall totals are about the same give or take a few inches.
Prices might be a bit higher in the hartford area, I'm more in the rural area's so prices are lower because everyone throws a plow on their truck one reason why I went commercial instead of residence's. I can sub my truck for 50 an hour and make more money than just doing residences -(at least in the beginning that's what I did till I grew.)
Half the business places have their own truck in my town and plow out their own lots -(it's rough) I get more business in another town than I do mine because of that.


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## SFCarmyvet

OneManWithAPlow said:


> Absoltely, I really did. A lot of good people on this website. So far this is all real new to me and the plowing community has been great. I'm also on the hunt for an 8-9 fisher MM and stumbled upon a local guy on his day off...Had probably 50+ blowers and 20+ brand new trucks(2014+) wjth fisher setups...I asked him if he was a dealer(he wasn't, just been in the business a while), and he put down his beer to make personal phone calls to try and find me a plow.


There is a lot of great guys on here. It is nice to see everyone looking out for one another and helping each other out! Us new guys will remember to pay it forward one day.


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## JMHConstruction

OneManWithAPlow said:


> That actually kinda gets into what I was wondering next...Ill make a spare thread if I cant find any previously started, but what are some things that should ALWAYS be kept in a plow truck?


There are a few threads on here about what to keep in your truck, just have to find them



SFCarmyvet said:


> There is a lot of great guys on here. It is nice to see everyone looking out for one another and helping each other out! Us new guys will remember to pay it forward one day.


As long as guys do their homework, don't act like they know everything, and don't just ask a question hoping to get the answer THEY want to hear (you'll see when the season starts) everyone will help where they can. I have learned so much from this site, and still do. Sometimes you may have to read through the crap, but it's worth it. Even the negative comments can teach you something now and then. Wish you both the best of luck for the coming season.


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## SFCarmyvet

JMHConstruction said:


> There are a few threads on here about what to keep in your truck, just have to find them
> 
> As long as guys do their homework, don't act like they know everything, and don't just ask a question hoping to get the answer THEY want to hear (you'll see when the season starts) everyone will help where they can. I have learned so much from this site, and still do. Sometimes you may have to read through the crap, but it's worth it. Even the negative comments can teach you something now and then. Wish you both the best of luck for the coming season.


I used some of your old advice I read the other day lol. I went to harbor freight and grabbed the 1000lb dollys to sit my plow on.


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## OneManWithAPlow

MSsnowplowing said:


> Your only 1/2 hour 45 minutes from me so snow fall totals are about the same give or take a few inches.
> Prices might be a bit higher in the hartford area, I'm more in the rural area's so prices are lower because everyone throws a plow on their truck one reason why I went commercial instead of residence's. I can sub my truck for 50 an hour and make more money than just doing residences -(at least in the beginning that's what I did till I grew.)
> Half the business places have their own truck in my town and plow out their own lots -(it's rough) I get more business in another town than I do mine because of that.


Yes, I quoted the wrong comment. I meant to quote the comment where you mentioned being near Franklin! I appreciate the date on snowfalls, I will keep them in mind.


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