# Proof of Salting



## hydroturf (Oct 20, 2005)

Hey guys, I have an unusual situation from a rental property owner who i know is playing games with me. He doesn't want to pay for any salting i've done - he has asked me to 'prove' i've done it. He says his tenants have never seen me do - of course, since it's usually done at 3 or 4 in the morning. 

Now, I have salted every storm and I have already terminated his contract in writing. Thoughts on collecting or providing proof? I do document my salting on a route sheet but I'm afraid that's not going to be enough if I have to go to court.


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

You calmly tell him all worked was done per contract.

If he is unwilling to pay have your lawyer send them a letter with the date for court. Lawyer fee's should also be included as well as late fee's for non-payment.


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## Cassy (Aug 10, 2006)

I agree with that advice. Once lawyers are called in I find many clients are suddenly willing to pay.

While I don't salt, I've had similar situations with landscaping--specifically when we are contracted to spray chemicals, clients can't generally see it so I can see them questioning whether it was done.
Keeping dated logs helps alot, as I've heard from other guys, to go towards proving your case. Especially if it is a long running log, that way it doesn't look like something you've slapped together for the court to see--if it gets to that.

good luck!


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## Big Dog D (Oct 1, 2005)

Ask him to proove that it wasn't done!


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## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

Generally we write in and out times, but thats not oh so reliable.
A landscape company around here, has linked there gps tracking in that when the salters are engaged, time on and off are logged, alongside the normal location tracking. Thats gotten them out of two lawsuits this year. 

We are looking into arrange the samething for our salters. We've never had a problem, but it sounds like relatively solid way to avoid the unknown.


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## KCB (Jan 22, 2006)

Tell him to lick the pavement .


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## X-LOWBALLER (Jan 16, 2007)

I have a salt sheet that MUST be signed. In fact, if the customer does not sign it, it is free. I have several accounts where having them sign it at 3 in the morning would be impossible so we/I return in the am and have them sign it then. I had a problem getting paid $2300 5 years ago with the same problem and it hasnt happened since. If they dont sign it, atleast you'll know the first time out that they are aholes. I would hate to walk in on pay day and 12 saltings later to find out otherwise.


Good luck


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## Bernie Lomax (Mar 15, 2007)

What about invoices proving your purchase of the material?


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## Silentroo (Jun 19, 2006)

Out of all our accounts we have one or two where we ALWAYS have an issue. We have a camera. We photo snow dept 3 place on the lot at each clear. What it looks like at the end of each clear and the salter working and done. I had a customer where we photoed the truck start and finish to show salt used(did not rebid as it was not worth the pain. 

Bottom line is at this point it is almost impossible to prove. We track GPS and times. Also Approximate amounts applied (however we are per application not per ton.) We have very few issues. 

One thing I found that works better than anything is calling the next morning to ask How it looked and what they thought. I always mention every service we did so there is no questions. We also send a morning report to all customers about progress. Because of this it makes it much more difficult to say we are not doing things. We had one guy this year I showed the lawyer what we had and what we sent and my records and it quickly went away. 

The main thing is make it Your word and records against his thoughs. you will almost always win.


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## X-LOWBALLER (Jan 16, 2007)

Silentroo;384564 said:


> Out of all our accounts we have one or two where we ALWAYS have an issue. We have a camera. We photo snow dept 3 place on the lot at each clear. What it looks like at the end of each clear and the salter working and done. I had a customer where we photoed the truck start and finish to show salt used(did not rebid as it was not worth the pain.
> 
> Bottom line is at this point it is almost impossible to prove. We track GPS and times. Also Approximate amounts applied (however we are per application not per ton.) We have very few issues.
> 
> ...


I cant think of a single account worth the headache of going thru with what you mentioned above. We get a signature, it takes all of 3 seconds. It records time in and out along with the work performed ie salting, or salting and plowing. Taking photos of your salter working, taking photos of depths in 3 different areas, pre and post photos  Can you say $160 per ton? And thats if I am getting it at the rock bottom price of $63 per ton. No chance in hell I would have time for any of those shinnanigans. , I would have told the customer to pound sand AFTER I pounded his face.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Usually the wet parking lot is proof enough, but like the first guy said get a lawyer.


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## SnowMatt13 (Jan 8, 2003)

How about the phrase "And what address and to who's attention should my lawyer sent the collection paperwork to?"
Also, like earlier stated, you were fullfilling your contractual obligations, and tell them to prove you didn't"


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## NoFearDeere (Nov 7, 2005)

SnowMatt13;385086 said:


> How about the phrase "And what address and to who's attention should my lawyer sent the collection paperwork to?"
> Also, like earlier stated, you were fullfilling your contractual obligations, and tell them to prove you didn't"


I agree with this and what REAPER said....


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## Silentroo (Jun 19, 2006)

X-LOWBALLER;384863 said:


> I cant think of a single account worth the headache of going thru with what you mentioned above. We get a signature, it takes all of 3 seconds. It records time in and out along with the work performed ie salting, or salting and plowing. Taking photos of your salter working, taking photos of depths in 3 different areas, pre and post photos  Can you say $160 per ton? And thats if I am getting it at the rock bottom price of $63 per ton. No chance in hell I would have time for any of those shinnanigans. , I would have told the customer to pound sand AFTER I pounded his face.


Account in question this year put $157K profit into my pocket after all the Shinnanigans! I think it is worth all the hoops I had to jump through in the begning. After being on it 6 years I probably don't Have to do it. But my site manager is used to it so I just don't let him know he does not have to do it....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

If you have route sheets or daily logs or whatever you record time in\time out, these are acceptable documents for court--according to JAA. If not, I suggest you start keeping them.

How much money are we talking here? Couple hundred? Couple thousand? I like Big Dog's suggestion the best, then the lawyer sends him a nice little letter if it's worthwhile. Probably figures you won't pursue it after firing him. 

From then on, if it seems like it might be an issue, ask the contact if they would like it if you called them from then on to come down and check at 3 or 4. Usually changes their minds.


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## andrewcarrigan (Jun 10, 2007)

it would be up to him to prove you didnt so if youhave a log book and invoices and dates and times in court you will win every time


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## unit28 (Jan 1, 2007)

KCB;384263 said:


> Tell him to lick the pavement .


yeah...after you bust his lip and rub his face on it....LOL


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## payton (Nov 3, 2005)

cheapest insurance is a small digital camera or even a polariod camera.

if you have a feeling there might be trouble. take pics. file them save them till your paid.


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