# What are typical snow hourly rates?? - multiple States



## AddValueToYourLandscape

Hello,

Our company works for a small national non-profit Company and we are assisting them in managing some of their sites in multiple regions. We are NOT a national vendor. This on a small scale. 

I am trying to get average hourly rates for the following services:
- Plow Truck
- Hand shoveling
- Salting truck

In multiple States:
- OR, ID, WA, MT, ND, SD, WY, UT, CO, NE

If you are able to give me some feedback, I would appreciate. Please let me know your City/Region.

Thank you,


----------



## BossPlow2010

What’s the national company?

welcome to the forum too.
I’m In SE Michigan.


----------



## dieselss

Small national is 10 states?


----------



## Mike_PS

Ok, let's give the new guy a chance and see before we jump on him/his company


----------



## AddValueToYourLandscape

BossPlow2010 said:


> What's the national company?
> 
> welcome to the forum too.
> I'm In SE Michigan.


It's for a Church. Helping them organize rate expectations for multiple areas


----------



## BossPlow2010

AddValueToYourLandscape said:


> It's for a Church. Helping them organize rate expectations for multiple areas


I hope you didn't tell them you would do that, everyone's hourly rate will be a little bit different, you'll get the solo guys who don't do this,for a living charging pennies, and bigger companies charging in the hundreds.


----------



## BUFF

AddValueToYourLandscape said:


> Hello,
> 
> Our company works for a small national non-profit Company and we are assisting them in managing some of their sites in multiple regions. We are NOT a national vendor. This on a small scale.
> 
> I am trying to get average hourly rates for the following services:
> - Plow Truck
> - Hand shoveling
> - Salting truck
> 
> In multiple States:
> - OR, ID, WA, MT, ND, SD, WY, UT, CO, NE
> 
> If you are able to give me some feedback, I would appreciate. Please let me know your City/Region.
> 
> Thank you,


Rates can easily change from county to county.
Rates can be hourly, per push or seasonal, which are you looking for.


----------



## tpendagast

Most legitimate companies will not have a fleet sitting around for your call in case you want to use them per hour 

they have fixed costs like insurance premiums , equipment payments and what not 

additionally 
An hourly rate is semi irrelevant 

if I charge you $55 an hour put I take 10 hours to do it , that’s $550

are you not going to hire a guy for $120 an hour if it only takes him three hours? ($360?)

Equipment (and training) is everything

it matters much less on a 30 foot drive way than it does on a 10 acre lot 

so your Search for hourly rates isn’t going to give you the information you are ultimately looking for 

checking with someone who had similar properties as you (like another church or maybe a church member who owns some commercial real estate) and taking a peek at contracts they already have in place will give you an idea of what the lot requirements are (types of equipment , size of company , insurance limits) and what the rates are for those lots (looking for an average yearly cost in an area with similar snow fall rates) 

that’s more likely to net you the budgetary numbers you’re in search of


----------



## Kinport

Avg. rate for a plow truck is probably about $110.00. 
Avg. rate for a hand shoveler is probably about $65.00. 
Couldn’t tell ya on the salt truck, but I’d guess around $115.00 but that doesn’t include salt.


----------



## Kinport

A lot of factors go into that average so please don’t use it for bidding/quoting/promising/hard planning. But if it truly is for a church with facilities in 10 states and their trying to create a budget, I bet those numbers would get them pretty close to an average of what they can expect to pay per hour while accounting for huge price fluctuations between markets.
Mostly Unrelated:The bigger challenge is going to be finding that many contractors willing to work for an hourly wage. All of ours clients are seasonal or per push. If someone wanted to pay me hourly, it would need to be equal to what I would be making during an hour of high density per push accounts, which I imagine would be cost prohibitive.


----------



## 1olddogtwo

Around here churches are done for free.

It's pentas for some, others do it for credit.


----------



## Mr.Markus

A good source for these numbers is associations. Membership typically is polled and an average is the result.
Although it is probably important to find out when the survey was taken as this imformation changes year to year. These are 10 year old rates.
https://horttrades.com/2010-equipment-charge-out-rates


----------



## cjames808

Churches are on my list of favorite lots. 

Fast and empty.


----------



## Ajlawn1

1olddogtwo said:


> Around here churches are done for free.
> 
> It's pentas for some, others do it for credit.


So like purgatory?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Ted\Ed hit the nail on the head.

So just out of curiousity...what are the rates they are paying now? Why not start there?

As was stated, rates can and will vary from county to county and even contractor to contractor. And those variations can be significant. For example:

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/is-this-news-worthy.178648/

These guys are 10 miles from me, give or take. I wouldn't touch their smallest driveway for what they are quoting on the largest driveway on their flyer.

Their smallest drive at $185, based on 25 events is going for $7.40/push. 25 is a pretty good guess based on 1" trigger. It actually should be more trips because we average 25 at a 1.5" trigger. Now I totally get that if they have tight routes with limited drive time, their dollars per hour can make up for that low rate. BUT...there is no way I am showing up for a driveway for $7.40. I don't care if I have an entire neighborhood, I'm not doing it. But these dimwits are.

Due to the tight labor market, I have also started using a minimum charge for commercial. I don't care if it takes me 10 minutes to do a lot, I have a minimum for me to show up during a snow event.

So hourly rates aren't going to matter, because if you wanted me to do it hourly, my absolute bare minimum would be 1 hour. Plow truck, shovel monkey or salt truck. And it would be 1 hour for each. But if you wanted to sign a seasonal contract, my minimum charge is not 1 hour, because I have a level of guaranteed income.

As Ted\Ed stated...do you want a guy showing up with a Chevy Colorado with a 6 foot plow for $100/hour or a guy with a 2500/3500 with a 8.5' V plow for $100. If you want cheap, I can send a crew of guys with shovels at $25/hour and shovel your lot.

But there are just too many variables to come up with an hourly rate spread out over 10 states. Yes, you can come up with an average, but I don't see it helping in the long run.

Average snowfall--overhead can be spread out over a higher number of services if the area receives 100" of snow vs 10". The area with 10" is going to have a much higher hourly rate because of this.

Cost of living.

Insurance

Taxes

Employee pool

Overhead based on size of company

Market conditions i.e. "the going rate"

The level of education of the business or job owner. Let's face it, Chuck with a truck does not own a business, he owns a job. The guy with a fleet, multiple employees and is running an actual business is likely to charge more. Notice I said likely. There are many large contractors that build a huge business and then in order to sustain it, they start working on the make it up in volume theory and their prices go down.

I wouldn't even get out of bed, much less put a plow on my truck for the rates those guys in the other thread are charging. There's no way they are making money, but they either don't realize it yet or are subsidizing their snow operations with green work.

Good luck


----------



## Mr.Markus

Now I know where you've been since 4am....
Lol.


----------



## Luther

AddValueToYourLandscape said:


> Helping them organize rate expectations for multiple areas


You'll be more helpful to them by creating and presenting client expectations and a basic vetting process to find potential service providers. Can't give you rates or pricing without knowing what their expectations and/or requirements are.

Unless you are just looking for Chucks in trucks. They'll pass out pricing like candy not knowing or understanding anything about the client requirements or SOW.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Mr.Markus said:


> Now I know where you've been since 4am....
> Lol.


Who????

Where????


----------



## 1olddogtwo

Ajlawn1 said:


> So like purgatory?


Frozen Hell.


----------



## leigh

Mr.Markus said:


> Now I know where you've been since 4am....
> Lol.


 And a very informative post, must be a "morning person". I reread it multiple times and couldn't detect any "Marksism's". I have nothing to add, its all been covered ,thanx


----------



## AddValueToYourLandscape

Kinport said:


> Avg. rate for a plow truck is probably about $110.00.
> Avg. rate for a hand shoveler is probably about $65.00.
> Couldn't tell ya on the salt truck, but I'd guess around $115.00 but that doesn't include salt.


Thank you very much - exactly what I am looking for...average rate from the contractors who review these threads. I understand they change all over the place. In CO, we are $125/hr for plow truck, $55/hr for hand shoveling. I spoke to someone in Portland, OR, where it rarely snows, so obviously they are going to have a higher rate...i was a little shocked: plow truck is $300/hr, hand shoveling $100/hr.

FORUM:
I was just trying to see if anyone would jump in an post average rates for their areas (county and states) - nothing perfect. I understand they vary. I understand insurances, etc. I also know if someone tells me $55/hr for a plow truck, they are crazy and i would never rely on that number.


----------



## AddValueToYourLandscape

Mr.Markus said:


> A good source for these numbers is associations. Membership typically is polled and an average is the result.
> Although it is probably important to find out when the survey was taken as this imformation changes year to year. These are 10 year old rates.
> https://horttrades.com/2010-equipment-charge-out-rates


Great feedback, thank you - exactly what I am searching. I appreciate


----------



## Treeboy

The real problem getting a low hourly contractor is they have to make money and several people have told me of the contractor ripping them off billing like 3x tonnage for salt and the business cannot prove it didnt get dropped.


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Treeboy said:


> The real problem getting a low hourly contractor is they have to make money and several people have told me of the contractor ripping them off billing like 3x tonnage for salt and the business cannot prove it didnt get dropped.


My question is and has been...if one is selling by the ton/tonne, does one have to have a calibrated and certified scale?

Gas stations have their pumps checked regularly. Food, beverage, etc. I don't know the answer but it is one of the reasons I got away from charging by the ton/tonne.


----------



## GMC Driver

Mark Oomkes said:


> does one have to have a calibrated and certified scale?


Yup, calibrated annually and registered.


----------



## leigh

Mark Oomkes said:


> My question is and has been...if one is selling by the ton/tonne, does one have to have a calibrated and certified scale?
> 
> Gas stations have their pumps checked regularly. Food, beverage, etc. I don't know the answer but it is one of the reasons I got away from charging by the ton/tonne.


 Around here the retail yards buy by the ton from the supplier (gateway terminal) and then sell by the yard. The only guys that seem to go by weight are the small contractors that count bags. I've never been a fan of mentioning weight or volume ,they pay for an application.Your spot on with the scale thought, the only way that would work is if you bought x amount of salt and then used it all in one lot and used the scale ticket for verification, much to complicated.


----------



## Mr.Markus

Technology will make it affordable , our MTO already carries portable weigh scales, and my trucker friends have payload sensors equipped right into their trucks now...

http://www.truckweight.com/index.html


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Mr.Markus said:


> Technology will make it affordable , our MTO already carries portable weigh scales, and my trucker friends have payload sensors equipped right into their trucks now...
> 
> http://www.truckweight.com/index.html


I looked into it in the past, it was a bit cost prohibitive and mostly based on air ride suspensions.


----------



## Mr.Markus

https://www.walzscale.com/product-category/truck-scales/portable-truck-scales/?utm_source=TPA On Google Search&utm_campaign=New Search Campaign&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=People Searching For Onboard Scales&utm_content=Text Ads&keyword=axle scales&matchtype=b&adposition=1t2&device=m&loc_physical_ms=9000995&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxIiwm7Kf5wIVApyzCh115w1TEAAYAiAAEgL3aPD_BwE

For the Dutch..


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Mr.Markus said:


> https://www.walzscale.com/product-category/truck-scales/portable-truck-scales/?utm_source=TPA On Google Search&utm_campaign=New Search Campaign&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=People Searching For Onboard Scales&utm_content=Text Ads&keyword=axle scales&matchtype=b&adposition=1t2&device=m&loc_physical_ms=9000995&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxIiwm7Kf5wIVApyzCh115w1TEAAYAiAAEgL3aPD_BwE
> 
> For the Dutch..


I'll add this to my removing the spinner between each account checklist.


----------



## Mr.Markus

I think if i lived or worked in the city again and relied on salt yards for my product, it would be a worthwhile investment. 
20 some odd years ago i remember going through these yards and thinking " I don't think that bucket was full, the truck seems light to me"


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc.

Mr.Markus said:


> I think if i lived or worked in the city again and relied on salt yards for my product, it would be a worthwhile investment.
> 20 some odd years ago i remember going through these yards and thinking " I don't think that bucket was full, the truck seems light to me"


 Does the town/city by-law people bother you about storage? Or do you keep it in like a shipping container?


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc.

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'll add this to my removing the spinner between each account checklist.


So you don't back into something and break the spinner?


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> So you don't back into something and break the spinner?


So my plate is visible.

Late fall/early winter a member recommended doing this so the plate was visible.

Someone else had the silly idea of moving the plate...


----------



## Fourteen Contracting Inc.

Mark Oomkes said:


> So my plate is visible.
> 
> Late fall/early winter a member recommended doing this so the plate was visible.
> 
> Someone else had the silly idea of moving the plate...


Ah, got pulled over the other night for a non- visible plate. Cargo carrier though.


----------



## Mr.Markus

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Does the town/city by-law people bother you about storage? Or do you keep it in like a shipping container?


Not yet but shhhhhh!


----------



## Mark Oomkes

Mr.Markus said:


> I think if i lived or worked in the city again and relied on salt yards for my product, it would be a worthwhile investment.
> 20 some odd years ago i remember going through these yards and thinking " I don't think that bucket was full, the truck seems light to me"


We have a couple mulch yards like that. You need to count the times they "fill" the bucket or you might get shorted. Another is pretty good to a bit generous. Third one you have to be careful how much you ask for. They are extremely generous with their yardage. Ask for 3 yards of mulch and we get 5.


----------



## m_ice

Mark Oomkes said:


> We have a couple mulch yards like that. You need to count the times they "fill" the bucket or you might get shorted. Another is pretty good to a bit generous. Third one you have to be careful how much you ask for. They are extremely generous with their yardage. Ask for 3 yards of mulch and we get 5.


So you go to the 1 that gives you extra???


----------



## Mark Oomkes

m_ice said:


> So you go to the 1 that gives you extra???


No


----------



## doh

I lost a Contract on an Hourly Bid.

A Company asked that the Contract I was doing for 5 years, go to Tender. 

I quoted, and the Company asking for the Tender, and a third Company. 

The one that brought up the Tender was double me and the other one. The other one had Bigger Equipment, so they awarded it to them thinking Less Hours per event.

The place opens at 6AM, I always had the lot open for then, The new one is done by 10-11AM, and probably charges the same hours.


----------



## leigh

doh said:


> I lost a Contract on an Hourly Bid.
> 
> A Company asked that the Contract I was doing for 5 years, go to Tender.
> 
> I quoted, and the Company asking for the Tender, and a third Company.
> 
> The place opens at 6AM, I always had the lot open for then, The new one is done by 10-11AM, and probably charges the same hours.


 Sit tight,it seems there's been many forum members that get these accounts back .Its happened a couple times to me . Just don't hold your breath !


----------



## doh

leigh said:


> Sit tight,it seems there's been many forum members that get these accounts back .Its happened a couple times to me . Just don't hold your breath !


It turned out for the best anyway. It was a Major 3+ hour site. I made up for it with smaller sites, just more travel time.


----------

