# Diesel question for a 6.0L



## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Our 6.0L has gelled up twice now even with additive added. It's been very col here, well into the negatives with wind chills of -30 or so. The other day I had 3/4 full untreated fuel so I dumped about 1 1/2 cups of this PPF additive then topped off the tank and drove home which is only about 2 miles away. The truck sat for about 6 hours then we went out plowing and after about 2 hours of plowing it gelled up. I nursed it back to my shop and within 20 minutes it ran fine. I drained the water separator and drained about 3 quarts of water and fuel, left it sit in our shop for a couple days and everything has been fine. Today everything started and ran fine, I had the truck sitting at idle for about 1.5 hours then went to leave and it started spitting and sputtering. I pulled the filters and found the one on the frame rail had a frozen film around it so I drained everything again and left it drain for a while, installed new filters and after only a minute the water in fuel light came back on. Bad fuel? If so what can I do, the tank is almost full.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Wow. Sounds like ur having fun. U have any other diesels to compare with?

I would want to say bad fuel or ur tank has been collecting water over time and now its showing.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Sounds like a lot of water in the tank, not so much the fuel gelling. Only thing I can suggest is drain the tank.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I was always told to never buy fuel in Erie.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Brian Young;1963305 said:


> Our 6.0L has gelled up twice now even with additive added. It's been very col here, well into the negatives with wind chills of -30 or so. The other day I had 3/4 full untreated fuel so I dumped about 1 1/2 cups of this PPF additive then topped off the tank and drove home which is only about 2 miles away. The truck sat for about 6 hours then we went out plowing and after about 2 hours of plowing it gelled up. I nursed it back to my shop and within 20 minutes it ran fine. I drained the water separator and drained about 3 quarts of water and fuel, left it sit in our shop for a couple days and everything has been fine. Today everything started and ran fine, I had the truck sitting at idle for about 1.5 hours then went to leave and it started spitting and sputtering. I pulled the filters and found the one on the frame rail had a frozen film around it so I drained everything again and left it drain for a while, installed new filters and after only a minute the water in fuel light came back on. Bad fuel? If so what can I do, the tank is almost full.


What I would do.......Drain the tank of all Fuel...Change all filters again....Fuel Truck back up.....NOT from the same source you have been fueling...Treat the crap out of the fuel you are putting in due to the fact you will not get all the crappy Fuel out of the system....Not Fun...But that's what I would do

Put 911 or Melt Down in the tank after refueling.....The whole Bottle...It wont hurt anything


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Thanks guys, I figured I'd have to drain it all out. Sucks because it's basically full but a new tank of fuel is better than being stranded I guess.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

FYI.911 is basically alcohol it's used to dissolve water.
It only should be used after a /freeze up.



a better choice is to use a additive that 
demulsifies or displaces water out of the fuel, leaving only fuel to burn. Products that emulsify or disperse water into the fuel are usually alcohol, like 911 or solvent based and can further damage key system components by allowing water to pass through the fuel water separator. Since water is abrasive, it tends to score or wear down the close metal to metal tolerance of the injection system.

only use 911 after a freeze up.


i'm with the rest, drain that tank and start fresh with new filters


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

SnoFarmer;1963377 said:


> FYI.911 is basically alcohol it's used to dissolve water.
> It only should be used after a /freeze up.
> 
> a better choice is to use a additive that
> ...


Well Mr. Farmer......He is Frozen up......There will still be Gelled Fuel in the system....Have used Polar Power Melt Down or 911 in lieu of Regular Polar power for 24 years now....It will NOT hurt anything in this one time application......Im sure you will have some witty retort.....So. bring it on


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Defcon 5;1963390 said:


> Well Mr. Farmer......He is Frozen up......There will still be Gelled Fuel in the system....Have used Polar Power Melt Down or 911 in lieu of Regular Polar power for 24 years now....It will NOT hurt anything in this one time application......Im sure you will have some witty retort.....So. bring it on


How dare you challenge him, google calls him for answers on everything.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Well one thing, Im going back to using Stanadyne (however you spell it). Ever since using this PPF stuff, it's gelled up. I actually found out some of the 05's had a fuel heater right at the pump so Im checking to see if mine does, if it does it's not working!


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Brian Young;1963358 said:


> Thanks guys, I figured I'd have to drain it all out. Sucks because it's basically full but a new tank of fuel is better than being stranded I guess.





Defcon 5;1963390 said:


> Well Mr. Farmer......He is Frozen up......There will still be Gelled Fuel in the system....Have used Polar Power Melt Down or 911 in lieu of Regular Polar power for 24 years now....It will NOT hurt anything in this one time application......Im sure you will have some witty retort.....So. bring it on


Well MR.The sky is falling.

what is he doing in the post above?
I'll wait until you are done.....
'
'
'
done?
good

Why use 911 in the tank of fresh fuel?

we can lower the defcon level down to #1.

now go back and read my post again.
Ill wait.....

as i said you dont want to use it in every tank only AFTER a freeze up, to dissolve the water.
your yelling, what i stated above...



1olddogtwo;1963392 said:


> How dare you challenge him, google calls him for answers on everything.


:laughing::laughing:
ho my gawd
funny and on topic.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

1olddogtwo;1963392 said:


> How dare you challenge him, google calls him for answers on everything.


Now this explains a lot.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750;1963434 said:


> Now this explains a lot.


don't you have to go pick your nose?


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

SnoFarmer;1963438 said:


> don't you have to go pick your nose?


Nope, so cold that is all frozen up. I do have an itch I can't reach if you want to help. Thumbs Up


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

SnoFarmer;1963421 said:


> Well MR.The sky is falling.
> 
> what is he doing in the post above?
> I'll wait until you are done.....
> ...


I read your almost incoherent post and what I said is treat it with 911 or meltdown for this one application....You will still have crap in the system...Maybe its time to admit you don't know everything.......:whistling:.....Your Not Basher.........:laughing:


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

or b&b. thank gawd

yea a lot of water left in the system Thumbs UpThumbs Up.

but is it frozen up?

no.
a additive other than 911 is needed.

as you said in your rant and i in my statement is
what for it

is to only use 911* after* a freeze up.

You dont use 911 to prevent one.

NOW,with a tank of fresh fuel you dont 
want to not have any alcohol present.
You WANT the fuel water separator/filter catching any water that could be left in the system. then you drain the separator often until things clear up.

like is said.

I'm not going to apologize for having over 30 years experience with diesels.

im just trying to help a guy out with some sound advice.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

kimber750;1963443 said:


> Nope, so cold that is all frozen up. I do have an itch I can't reach if you want to help. Thumbs Up


sorry, my swing don't go that way.

but you may want to ask GP :waving:


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

I've driven diesels since 2001, and up until last year, i never put any additives in the tank and never had any issues. Last year, my truck gelled up twice. First time, limped it to the dealer, they flushed system, replaced filters and put their (Ford) additive in and gave me the remainder of the bottle. When i ran out, i ran to Napa and bought a bottle of power service or whatever is in the white bottle (same company that makes the 911). First tank i ran with that crap gelled again. Limped back to dealer. Truck was so bad, it only had enough power in 4 low to move itself, so drove 20mph to dealer in 4 low after spending an hour on the side of the road trying to figure out how to load on wrecker (unsuccessfully) with plow and spreader on. Flushed, filtered again. Through white bottle in trash and bought a case of the Motorcraft fuel additive and haven't had an issue since.


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## beanz27 (Dec 22, 2012)

derekslawncare;1963731 said:


> I've driven diesels since 2001, and up until last year, i never put any additives in the tank and never had any issues. Last year, my truck gelled up twice. First time, limped it to the dealer, they flushed system, replaced filters and put their (Ford) additive in and gave me the remainder of the bottle. When i ran out, i ran to Napa and bought a bottle of power service or whatever is in the white bottle (same company that makes the 911). First tank i ran with that crap gelled again. Limped back to dealer. Truck was so bad, it only had enough power in 4 low to move itself, so drove 20mph to dealer in 4 low after spending an hour on the side of the road trying to figure out how to load on wrecker (unsuccessfully) with plow and spreader on. Flushed, filtered again. Through white bottle in trash and bought a case of the Motorcraft fuel additive and haven't had an issue since.


Must have not used enough, I've been using power service white bottle for years, never had anything gell, even once. It's been -20 or colder last two weeks here. Only ever had a truck gell when I tried using Howes.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

derekslawncare;1963731 said:


> I've driven diesels since 2001, and up until last year, i never put any additives in the tank and never had any issues. Last year, my truck gelled up twice. First time, limped it to the dealer, they flushed system, replaced filters and put their (Ford) additive in and gave me the remainder of the bottle. When i ran out, i ran to Napa and bought a bottle of power service or whatever is in the white bottle (same company that makes the 911). First tank i ran with that crap gelled again. Limped back to dealer. Truck was so bad, it only had enough power in 4 low to move itself, so drove 20mph to dealer in 4 low after spending an hour on the side of the road trying to figure out how to load on wrecker (unsuccessfully) with plow and spreader on. Flushed, filtered again. Through white bottle in trash and bought a case of the Motorcraft fuel additive and haven't had an issue since.


I'm betting it was the fuel, not the Power Services. PS is sold all over and has a great reputation.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

beanz27;1963735 said:


> Must have not used enough, I've been using power service white bottle for years, never had anything gell, even once. It's been -20 or colder last two weeks here. Only ever had a truck gell when I tried using Howes.


Went by the directions on the bottle. The tow driver that tried to tow me the second time even put about a half bottle of the 911 in my tank while we screwed around trying to figure out how to tow it, and that didn't work. He told me that they use the PS in all their tow rigs and still have 3-4 a year that gel up. The dealer told me they were coming in on hooks faster than they could unload them. They started turning work away they were so backed up. Last winter was the first time that we had several days in the single digits, so it was happening to everyone all over town.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Mark Oomkes;1963794 said:


> I'm betting it was the fuel, not the Power Services. PS is sold all over and has a great reputation.


That was what they blamed it on when I called them to get my money back. He tried to give me some BS story about all the shale oil coming down from up north that was leading to really poor quality fuels, which may be true, but all I know is truck hasn't given me one issue on the Motorcraft treatment last year or this year. All my fuel is bought at one of two stations, both QT's that I have bought from for 20 yrs, so I find it difficult to believe that they just all of a sudden, start pumping crap fuel.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;1963794 said:


> I'm betting it was the fuel, not the Power Services. PS is sold all over and has a great reputation.


I agree, 
folks around here had a lot of issues last year, it wast where the crude was from but the % of bio, and the rate at witch Bio adsorbs moisture, even right out of the air.
i think they have a better handle on the OTR additive now.

Not all additives are the same and some are used only after a problem arises.

Some how you got a lot of water all at once.

good luck.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Stupid question, what if I just keep draining the separator for a few times instead of loosing the whole tank. Its supposed to warm up this weekend then get very cold again. My plans were to plow with it this weekend, use all of the fuel (right before it runs out) then go to another station, use the stanadyne instead of the PPF. Ive used the same fuel in my skid steer and haven't had any issues yet and it's been out in the same -10 temps.


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## MK97 (Oct 9, 2013)

Brian Young;1963902 said:


> Stupid question, what if I just keep draining the separator for a few times instead of loosing the whole tank. Its supposed to warm up this weekend then get very cold again. My plans were to plow with it this weekend, use all of the fuel (right before it runs out) then go to another station, use the stanadyne instead of the PPF. Ive used the same fuel in my skid steer and haven't had any issues yet and it's been out in the same -10 temps.


Stop trying to be a cheap ass before you destroy your fuel system. Empty the tank, change all your filters and fuel up from somewhere else.

Not trying to mean, but trying to save a bad tank of fuel is pointless.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Change the filter, put the whole container of Melt Down in and fill it full of known good fuel. When it gets down 5 gallons fill again and keep filling again as tank goes down. If your fuel was totally screwed you wouldn't even get it to run as long as you did.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Agreed, get rid of the fuel.

I'd get a hand transfer pump and get at least 70% out of the tank, then fill with fresh fuel.

Take the diesel you took out, store it, and start slowly adding it back to your truck and equipment at fill up.

I'm like you, thinking just run it out. But from the back story, and the multiple times you've had to drain the water separator, it sounds like you have way too much water in the fuel to justify just burning it off.



......


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Brian Young;1963902 said:


> Stupid question, what if I just keep draining the separator for a few times instead of loosing the whole tank. Its supposed to warm up this weekend then get very cold again. My plans were to plow with it this weekend, use all of the fuel (right before it runs out) then go to another station, use the stanadyne instead of the PPF. Ive used the same fuel in my skid steer and haven't had any issues yet and it's been out in the same -10 temps.


What happens when it gels again while you are in the middle of plowing? Now you are dipping into you pocket a little deeper.

Go to a local Farm and Fleet, Fleet and Farm, Tractor Supply, whatever you have in your area and get a little lawn sprayer pump. They are 12v and move fuel pretty quick. Grab a small roll of 1/2" sprayer hose and the hose barb by thread adapters to go on both sides of the little pump. Get a small roll of wire or find an old crappy extension cord laying around your house or shop. Connect to you battery. Shove one end down your filler neck, and fill what ever you have handy to hold diesel weather it is a tank or drum, or 5 gallon cans. Then take the junk fuel and add like 5 gallons to every tank in your skid loader every time you fill it up and you loose no fuel.

I personally pumped out around 200 gallons out of a heating diesel tank in a basement of a house into transfer tanks in my truck using this method when my buddy was moving out of a rental and was not going to get reimbursed for the fuel that he put in the winter before. I have also drained tanks of trucks using this method when people put gas in a diesel tank. :angry:

Oh, and have enough new fuel on hand that when you are done, you can fill the truck tank full enough to get to a station that has GOOD fuel. (Not that this is something that has ever happened...)


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Bite the bullet and drain it,

Why try to burn bad fuel?

What costs more pumps and injectors or a tank of fuel?

Ps.And don't try to burn it a little at a time.
Get rid of it,
A recycling center will take it


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

derekslawncare;1963806 said:


> *Last winter was the first time that we had several days in the single digits, so it was happening to everyone all over town.*





derekslawncare;1963813 said:


> That was what they blamed it on when I called them to get my money back. He tried to give me some BS story about all the shale oil coming down from up north that was leading to really poor quality fuels, which may be true, but all I know is truck hasn't given me one issue on the Motorcraft treatment last year or this year. All my fuel is bought at one of two stations, both QT's that I have bought from for 20 yrs, so I find it difficult to believe that they just all of a sudden, start pumping crap fuel.


You just answered your own question and validated what I said. It was bad fuel. Not Power Services.


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## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

Hey Brian!
Go buy a new "gas" cap! I had lots of issues with water in our fuel a year or two ago with one of my E450 6.0 busses. I isolated the fuel station I thought we were having trouble with to only find out I was still having the same problem. We had a very wet spring and summer that year and it was only the one bus that seemed to be giving me trouble. I changed the gas cap after looking over every possible way water could get into the tank, and haven't had a problem with water in the fuel since. Give it a try, the worst that happens is your out $20.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SnoFarmer;1964059 said:


> Bite the bullet and drain it,
> 
> Why try to burn bad fuel?
> 
> ...


How about in a forced air heater... is it ok to burn it there?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Philbilly2;1964185 said:


> How about in a forced air heater... is it ok to burn it there?


I guess I'd have to see a sample pulled from the bottom the fuel after separator in a qt jar.

And the furnence, in the shop, possibly.
In a new home furnace 
I may pass.

Pull the fuel off of the top of the storage containers after they have sat for a couple of days leaving the water behind but this only works if the additive used
Doesn't emulsify water. 
Then I would in my older furnence .


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

SnoFarmer;1964190 said:


> I guess I'd have to see a sample pulled from the bottom the fuel after separator in a qt jar.
> 
> And the furnence, in the shop, possibly.
> In a new home furnace
> ...


That was my thought on the shop heater furnace. Hate to see this $3 a gallon stuff go to waste.


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## Brian Young (Aug 13, 2005)

Plowtoy;1964090 said:


> Hey Brian!
> Go buy a new "gas" cap! I had lots of issues with water in our fuel a year or two ago with one of my E450 6.0 busses. I isolated the fuel station I thought we were having trouble with to only find out I was still having the same problem. We had a very wet spring and summer that year and it was only the one bus that seemed to be giving me trouble. I changed the gas cap after looking over every possible way water could get into the tank, and haven't had a problem with water in the fuel since. Give it a try, the worst that happens is your out $20.


Funny you say that, Ive noticed the last couple times Ive put fuel in it, the filler neck had frost/snow in it. Im getting a new fuel cap, I drained the separator again, cleaned off the sensor with some brake cleaner and ran it for about 10 minutes and no water in fuel light came on. Honestly my buddy who is a Ford diesel tech/shop foreman said run it for the weekend (much warmer temps) and burn as much fuel as I can then Im going to have them drain the rest and start from new again. I bought the Ford anti gel additive because Ive heard really good things about it, so we'll see. It's in my shop now and it's like 75F in there so thats where it will stay other than plowing for a few hours until they can drain it completely Tuesday. I'm by far not a "cheap azz"! but between one truck getting rear ended, rescheduling hauling and now this, Ive been very busy and don't really have the capability of draining 30 some gallons of fuel and Im not going to spend the money on pumps, transfer tanks ect. when the dealer can do it in a couple days. Thanks for all the advise.


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