# need help



## NLMCT (Nov 15, 2013)

i got this complex apartment for mowing and maintencane and im gonna need to submit my number for plowing... ive never priced anything this size before .... they want salt and plowing.... how much do you guys usually charge for salt per 1000 sq ft for just rock salt
.... i figure it would take around 1hr 45 mins at 120 a hour ... so 210 for 2-4 inches and about a ton and a half to out down for salt ... cant really figure out the salt price to spread it


----------



## NLMCT (Nov 15, 2013)

also the guy before me charged 700 to salt both lots with a pre treat... the owner said they went over budget and need to get different prices.... any help is greatly appreciated


----------



## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

Talk about a profit margin for salt. 700 dollars for less than a ton spread is the kind of margin we all wish we had. I would figure close to 1,600 pounds of salt per treatment so you should be able to figure your price from there. Plowing should be pretty straight forward right at about 2 hours if your running straight blades, and a little less for a v or expandable plow. My pricing here would be way cheaper then it will be in CT so you will have to plug your own numbers into the formula. Good Luck


----------



## NLMCT (Nov 15, 2013)

Rc2505;1994466 said:


> Talk about a profit margin for salt. 700 dollars for less than a ton spread is the kind of margin we all wish we had. I would figure close to 1,600 pounds of salt per treatment so you should be able to figure your price from there. Plowing should be pretty straight forward right at about 2 hours if your running straight blades, and a little less for a v or expandable plow. My pricing here would be way cheaper then it will be in CT so you will have to plug your own numbers into the formula. Good Luck


so let me know if im on the right track with prices...
to salt both those lots i was thinking 450.00
she wants a three inch trigger  whatever but i was thinking 
every 3-5 inches $300.00.... let me know what you guys think i really need some help on this one


----------



## NLMCT (Nov 15, 2013)

From: 3”- 5” Snow depth initial________$ 288.00 

From: 5.1”- 8” snow depth initial________$363.00

From: 8.1”-10 snow depth initial________$438.00

From: 10.1”-13” snow depth initial__________$513.00
Ice Storms and 2.9 or less Inch storms
In the event that there is icy conditions or 2.9 inch of snow or less that warrant sanding with Salt sand, Said application of Salt sand will cost $ 475.00 per application.
any ideas ???


----------



## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

Two thoughts. Who is verifying depth of snow on the site? Is salting away up to 2.9 inches of snow a sound and wise environmental practice?


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Herm Witte;1995348 said:


> Two thoughts. Who is verifying depth of snow on the site? Is salting away up to 2.9 inches of snow a* sound and wise environmental practice?*


*
*

Not only That.......Who the heck is gonna pay that salt bill......


----------



## NLMCT (Nov 15, 2013)

Defcon 5;1995365 said:


> [/COLOR][/B]
> 
> Not only That.......Who the heck is gonna pay that salt bill......


thats why im asking for advice would you use 1 ton of salt for 1.7 acres ??


----------



## Herm Witte (Jan 27, 2009)

I could give you advice on how much to bid and how much to use but given your apparent lack of knowledge and understanding as it relates to salt useage and application rates, you likely would not be able to execute that information.

The advice I will give you is, research these threads on PlowSite, join an organization or two that offers educational opportunities (SIMA being one), work and talk to your supplier(s), and consider working with some one experienced in this field.


----------



## NLMCT (Nov 15, 2013)

Herm Witte;1995738 said:


> I could give you advice on how much to bid and how much to use but given your apparent lack of knowledge and understanding as it relates to salt useage and application rates, you likely would not be able to execute that information.
> 
> The advice I will give you is, research these threads on PlowSite, join an organization or two that offers educational opportunities (SIMA being one), work and talk to your supplier(s), and consider working with some one experienced in this field.


your correct in assuming i dont have the best of knowledge but i do have some ... ive searched this forum for salt pricing and thought i was pretty ook but guess not ... how far off am i ?


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

I agree with Herm......Look into SIMA and The ASCA....Also think about working for another contractor and learning the business....




Also...In no way am I endorsing this gentleman.....But there is a book out called Managing Snow and Ice by John Allin......It has some good basic information that could help....Don't take his word as gospel ....But it should help you some.....


----------



## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

Let me explain to you so you can understand. Educate your customer!!!!! If you don't plow a 2 inch storm that comes through on Monday, just throw down some salt. you can figure the salt you threw will melt aprox. 1/2 inch of snow. Meanwhile the lot is being driven over and packed down into a solid sheet of ice. Then Wed. rolls around and drops a 2.9 inch snow total, so out of bed you go, jump into your truck, and go throw salt again. Now you melt off another 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch because it was a little warmer. Again the lot is driven over and packed down into a complete sheet of ice. Now the weekend rolls in and dumps 5 inches of snow. You are sitting in the truck excited to go plow. Pull into the lot, drop your blade and wile driving forward you notice your blade is jumping all over the place, tripping every 50 feet or so, and you look behind you to see that all you have done is beat the hell out of your truck and you still have 4 to 5 inches of hard pack behind you. In your head your thinking " man this sucks" !!! Now the customer only knows that after a 3 inch trigger and the fact they are paying for salt, the expect to see pavement. How much salt do you think it is going to take to melt 4 or 5 inches of hard packed snow/ice. 
You need to educate your customer!!!!! Explain that a 3 inch trigger is a complete waste of time if they are going to pay for salt. If they want salt it should be a minium of a 2 inch trigger, and you should plan on plowing anything over an inch. Unless your customer is willing to 2 to 3 times per 2 inches of snow to try and burn off everything down to bare pavement. An application of 800 pounds per acre will only burn off so much snow before the salt is melted away, and useless after that. The magic number your looking for has so many variables that it is hard to say 1 inch of snow, or 1/2 inch of snow. Those variables are the temps, how much moisture is in the snow, how much traffic, how much sun, and so on. You might want to educate yourself, then educate your customer. Good Luck


----------



## NLMCT (Nov 15, 2013)

Rc2505;1995841 said:


> Let me explain to you so you can understand. Educate your customer!!!!! If you don't plow a 2 inch storm that comes through on Monday, just throw down some salt. you can figure the salt you threw will melt aprox. 1/2 inch of snow. Meanwhile the lot is being driven over and packed down into a solid sheet of ice. Then Wed. rolls around and drops a 2.9 inch snow total, so out of bed you go, jump into your truck, and go throw salt again. Now you melt off another 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch because it was a little warmer. Again the lot is driven over and packed down into a complete sheet of ice. Now the weekend rolls in and dumps 5 inches of snow. You are sitting in the truck excited to go plow. Pull into the lot, drop your blade and wile driving forward you notice your blade is jumping all over the place, tripping every 50 feet or so, and you look behind you to see that all you have done is beat the hell out of your truck and you still have 4 to 5 inches of hard pack behind you. In your head your thinking " man this sucks" !!! Now the customer only knows that after a 3 inch trigger and the fact they are paying for salt, the expect to see pavement. How much salt do you think it is going to take to melt 4 or 5 inches of hard packed snow/ice.
> You need to educate your customer!!!!! Explain that a 3 inch trigger is a complete waste of time if they are going to pay for salt. If they want salt it should be a minium of a 2 inch trigger, and you should plan on plowing anything over an inch. Unless your customer is willing to 2 to 3 times per 2 inches of snow to try and burn off everything down to bare pavement. An application of 800 pounds per acre will only burn off so much snow before the salt is melted away, and useless after that. The magic number your looking for has so many variables that it is hard to say 1 inch of snow, or 1/2 inch of snow. Those variables are the temps, how much moisture is in the snow, how much traffic, how much sun, and so on. You might want to educate yourself, then educate your customer. Good Luck


so i convinced her to chnage her trigger to 2 inches and anything 1.9 inches or less will require salt


----------



## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

I love these types of threads. Always seem to develop a tone of yelling at someone, over something, yet not ever a spoken word..

Good advice mixed in above., and you should dictate to the customer how, when and why, as every time i let the customer tell me how or when, I usually pay the price in one way or another.

Local environmental conditions rule, IMO, as as stated above, depending on lots os factors " how much used ?" varies significantly . i have a commercial lot where, due to the orientation to the sun travel patterns, it hardly ever requires any salting. Its my discretion as when and how often i clear the lot, so I go there as conditions require me to. The sun brings it down to macadam for me. 

Trial and error, with some record keeping works best for most of what i do.


----------



## NLMCT (Nov 15, 2013)

From: 2”- 4” Snow depth initial________$ 288.00 

From: 4.1”- 6.1” snow depth initial________$363.00

From: 6.2”-8.2 snow depth initial________$438.00

From: 8.2”-10.2” snow depth initial__________$513.00

From 10.3 to 18.9 inches there will be an additional cost of $ 75.00 every 1-3.9 inches
do my numbers look ok tho ?


----------



## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

I haven't got a clue as to what your business expenses are, or how much money per inch or hour you need to make to be profitable. So if you feel comfortable with those numbers then go with it. I personally started out years ago charging by the inch, but I quickly changed over to a by the push charging system with a trigger in place. Whenever the snow reaches the trigger I push it. The downfall to per inch pricing is the customer is never going to let you let the snow build up to 8.2 inches before you push the lot off. So you will push the lot off once with 4 inches of snow for 288.00 dollars then you come back and push off another 4 inches of snow for 150.00 dollars. I would rather drop my first push down to 200.00 and know that I am going to make the same 200.00 dollars for the second one as well.


----------



## NLMCT (Nov 15, 2013)

well i figured it woild take me a little over 2 hours to do the lots at 120 a hour i think i making out ok


----------

