# Why isn't the salt working?



## Deershack (Feb 19, 2009)

I have a 3.25 A lot to salt. Area had a 15 to 20" snow fron the 23rd to the 25th. On the 25th we got mostly rain or freezing rain on top of the fall. Since the business was closed for those days, they didn't start plowing till the 26th. They got the snow off but there was a layer of ice left. They called me into salt.

I let US Salt talk me into loading "treated salt" in anticipation of the rain coming. This was a green tinged salt that they refered to as "Clear lane". I don't know if it actually was.

I figured the lot would take about 1.5 T of straight salt. I normaly would have increased this amount for a pretty good layer of ice, but since I had the treated salt on board, I used about the normal 1.5 T. Was told the treated salt was a combination of CC and MC and was very aggressive.

I salted the lot on Sat night in my normal pattern. Sun, the owner called and said it didn't look like I had been there. I resalted Sun night using the same treated salt that I still had. They called again today saying they could see I had been there in some spots, but in the areas that were not in the sun during the day, the affect of the salt was almost non existent. They were using a Bobcat to scrape the lot and could'nt get under the ice in many spots, so apparently even after two applications, the salt had not worked it's way down.

The temps for this entire period ( from the 23rd to the 27th were in the mid to high 20's during the day and the mid teens at night.

Anyone have any thoughts as to why the salt didn't work?


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## doo-man (Feb 22, 2009)

Hmmm I use straight rock salt and it works great on ice and icy build ups, I bet it would have for you also guess next time better go with what ya know works!! Hope it didn't cost ya more? I have heard mixed reviews about treated salt and I think I will stick to my plain salt!!


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## Deershack (Feb 19, 2009)

Straight salt was $69p/t and the treated was $79p/t. That was picked up with no contract.


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## novasnowplower (Nov 6, 2009)

Salt only good for temps over 28 degrees, Supposedly. Under 28 degrees unless it has good direct sunlight very posiible it wont work as well as temps over 28 degrees. Thats what I have been told. Maybe that helps make sense


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## ColumbiaLand (Sep 1, 2008)

When this happens try some magic salt for one storm. You can see results by the time you get done salting the other side of the lot. Clear lane is not that great. Good Luck


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

novasnowplower;931189 said:


> Salt only good for temps over 28 degrees, Supposedly. Under 28 degrees unless it has good direct sunlight very posiible it wont work as well as temps over 28 degrees. Thats what I have been told. Maybe that helps make sense


Better stop listening to people who don't have a clue. And then repeat what they tell you.

Clearlane is sodium treated with mag and food coloring. In my experience it does work faster and at colder temps but does not reduce the amount of salt needed. The salt worked, you just didn't apply enough.

You out there Crete?


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Deershack;931133 They got the snow off but there was a layer of ice left. They called me into salt.
I let US Salt talk me into loading "treated salt" in anticipation of the rain coming. This was a green tinged salt that they refered to as "Clear lane". I don't know if it actually was.
Anyone have any thoughts as to why the salt didn't work?[/QUOTE said:


> How much ice was left ? A layer of 1/4-1/2" will burn off with a heavy salting in 22 degree temps. But an inch or more is gonna be a nightmare. 2" and ya best start thinking about bringing in a big truck. Hard compacted concrete snow wont give in easy, especially when it gets a good dose of rain in it that freeze's up tight.
> Clear Lane is a decent product, but not going to cut your use by 75%. Its not a miracle product. The clear lane works well for colder temps when salt starts to lose its effectiveness. Below 20 degrees. However it is not going to "burn" away an inch of ice with a thousand pounds per acre. When you apply not enough of any de-icing product, when it does start to work, it will re-freeze if you dont stay on it. Meaning it started melting, diluted out, and re-froze. Ice is a bugger, and even a bucket on a bobcat is going to struggle till you get a good brine going underneath.
> 
> 
> ...


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

ColumbiaLand;931288 said:


> When this happens try some magic salt for one storm. You can see results by the time you get done salting the other side of the lot. Clear lane is not that great. Good Luck


You get the same effect spraying salt brine at the spinner 

Magic wont "Eat, Claw, or Shred" Ice either. It works great if you pre-treat with it, so do other products. If you prevent the bond, your one step ahead. If it rains on that pre-treat (Magic included) , your back to square one. Magic works very well for sure, but it in all honesty, I would not tell some guy to think this will save the day. 
Sounds to me he has some bad icing, and no matter what you put down, its going to take a Bomber run of de-icing material to get things done.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;931295 said:


> Better stop listening to people who don't have a clue. And then repeat what they tell you.
> 
> Clearlane is sodium treated with mag and food coloring. In my experience it does work faster and at colder temps but does not reduce the amount of salt needed. The salt worked, you just didn't apply enough.
> 
> You out there Crete?


Dang, how did I miss this one.



novasnowplower;931189 said:


> Salt only good for temps over 28 degrees, Supposedly. Under 28 degrees unless it has good direct sunlight very posiible it wont work as well as temps over 28 degrees. Thats what I have been told. Maybe that helps make sense


28* and direct sunlight it'll melt by itself. 

Is it just me or is the effective temperature of salt going up? First it's 20, then 22, now 28. :laughing:


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## TurfSolutionsMN (Dec 12, 2007)

The Stuff from US Salt is treated w/ Mag. I had the same problem on a small over flow lot thats next to a tall building, that never gets any sun. And I put down the same amount per acre and you didn't even know I went over it and the rest of the lots were bare. So I just gave up and ran some sand.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

cretebaby;931379 said:


> Is it just me or is the effective temperature of salt going up? First it's 20, then 22, now 28. :laughing:


I understand this has much to do with what state it is mined from. The southern states that extract salt from the ground doesn't work at the lower temps compared to northern states that mine salt.

This would explain it.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

TCLA;931417 said:


> I understand this has much to do with what state it is mined from. The southern states that extract salt from the ground doesn't work at the lower temps compared to northern states that mine salt.
> 
> This would explain it.


:laughing: :laughing:


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

not only should you have salted heavier because of packed snow/icy conditions to begin with, you also should have pointed out to those "heroes" plowing that lot that sat for three days, accumilated over 16" of snow, then experienced freezing rain are to blame as well. open or not, those idiots should have plowed the damn lot off. you don't let that much snow build up and expect miracles when you decide to show up and clean it off


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

redman6565;931517 said:


> not only should you have salted heavier because of packed snow/icy conditions to begin with, you also should have pointed out to those "heroes" plowing that lot that sat for three days, accumilated over 16" of snow, then experienced freezing rain are to blame as well. open or not, those idiots should have plowed the damn lot off. you don't let that much snow build up and expect miracles when you decide to show up and clean it off


Well, there's that too.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;931295 said:


> Better stop listening to people who don't have a clue. And then repeat what they tell you.
> 
> Clearlane is sodium treated with mag and food coloring. In my experience it does work faster and at colder temps but does not reduce the amount of salt needed. The salt worked, you just didn't apply enough.
> 
> You out there Crete?


Oh Boy!!!...Im keeping my eye on this Thread....


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;931295 said:


> You out there Crete?


Why are you worrying about Crete? We need the expert - IPLOWU

The salt I get is effective down to as low as 32 degrees. As long as the surface temp is above 40 degrees. And the sun is shining. And it's nice new blacktop. And it was plowed. And powerbroomed. And it wasn't driven on.

Under those conditions I only need 1 ton/acre. Works great


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## Big Snow Balls (Aug 21, 2008)

any one tried treating bulk rock salt with beat juice. How does it compare to magic salt


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Big Snow Balls;931736 said:


> any one tried treating bulk rock salt with beat juice. How does it compare to magic salt


Search Button...Search Button!!!!!......


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## OldCrow (Dec 14, 2009)

Always easier to put someone down than to explain what they heard is wrong, and give the correct info. We can't all be experts I suppose.

Salt (sodium chloride) has an effective melting temperature down to -6 degrees. Albeit, you'll need to apply 3x, 4x, 5x the amount of salt at lower temperatures to achieve the proper melting. Even at 20 degrees, you'll need to apply more salt to break through a hard snow or ice pack. So, it doesn't sound like a problem of the salt not working, just a problem of too much ice and not enough material applied.

For anyone interested, although it may not directly apply to contractors doing residential drives or even commercial lots, there is some good information for salting techniques and salt information at www.saltinstitute.org

There is also whats called "The Snow Fighters Handbook" that gives great info for application rates, techniques, etc.. It is geared more towards street and highway use, but may help give insight to anyone new in the industry. http://www.saltinstitute.org/content/download/484/2996


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

:laughing:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

T-MAN;931311 said:


> You get the same effect spraying salt brine at the spinner
> 
> Magic wont "Eat, Claw, or Shred" Ice either. It works great if you pre-treat with it, so do other products. If you prevent the bond, your one step ahead. If it rains on that pre-treat (Magic included) , your back to square one. Magic works very well for sure, but it in all honesty, I would not tell some guy to think this will save the day.
> Sounds to me he has some bad icing, and no matter what you put down, its going to take a Bomber run of de-icing material to get things done.


Well said bud!



2COR517;931673 said:


> Why are you worrying about Crete? We need the expert - IPLOWU
> 
> The salt I get is effective down to as low as 32 degrees. As long as the surface temp is above 40 degrees. And the sun is shining. And it's nice new blacktop. And it was plowed. And powerbroomed. And it wasn't driven on.
> 
> Under those conditions I only need 1 ton/acre. Works great


What was I thinking? I was just making sure Scott was on the ball.

I'm going to have to get me some of that salt, sounds like good stuff.



Big Snow Balls;931736 said:


> any one tried treating bulk rock salt with beat juice. How does it compare to magic salt


VVVVVVVVV


Matson Snow;931740 said:


> Search Button...Search Button!!!!!......


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

What he said. 



OldCrow;931787 said:


> Always easier to put someone down than to explain what they heard is wrong, and give the correct info. We can't all be experts I suppose.
> 
> Salt (sodium chloride) has an effective melting temperature down to -6 degrees. Albeit, you'll need to apply 3x, 4x, 5x the amount of salt at lower temperatures to achieve the proper melting. Even at 20 degrees, you'll need to apply more salt to break through a hard snow or ice pack. So, it doesn't sound like a problem of the salt not working, just a problem of too much ice and not enough material applied.
> 
> ...


Wow, those are cool links. I'm going to have to do some reading and get edumacated.

Seriously, I wasn't putting him down, I was giving him advice. If I tell you the sky is purple are you going to believe it and tell your friends without doing some research? Especially if you were posting on a scientific forum?

If you're in this industry, you ought to have half a clue about what you are talking about and not start spewing inaccurate and flat out DISINFORMATION out your rear end. Any monkey should be able to google "effective temperature of salt" and get accurate info.

Besides, maybe you missed the last idiot that tried telling people that salt's effective temp was 20* and then said you should only use mag or calcium because it will never refreeze. And then refuse to answer what happens when those chemicals become diluted.

This is a forum to help others, so if you're going to give advice, you dang well better have your crap straight. You don't and won't see me giving advice on rebuilding an engine or tranny or troubleshooting plows, that's for B&B, basher, Jerre, etc.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Here's a handy chart I found off Plowsite here somewhere a while back, in case anyone's interested?
View attachment Salt chart.pdf


Notice the part about dry salt is ineffective and will blow away before it melts anything?


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## Deershack (Feb 19, 2009)

All the replies have been interesting. Some clarification may be in order. The plowing of the lot is done in house. It was their decision to wait till the 26 th to do the initial plow. I put down about 3000# of the treated salt on Sat night and the same amount on Sun. There was about 1/4 to 1/2 " of ice on the lot. With the material I was using, I thought that I was probably using at least enough or perhaps too much. I have about a ton of the treated left on the truck. I plan on adding 4-5T of straight salt on top of it and run the combination through the spreader on the snow we have coming. Think I will stick with straight salt from now on or at least untill we get an event that requires something hotter. US Salt here only offer straight or this green treated. I'm not aware of a supplier of "Magic" or the other products that have been mentioned in this area. I just may go back with the new load and carpet bomb the account to keep them happy. It's just the start of the season and want to keep them happy.

SEPERATE QUESTION----- For those of you who just do salting. In this area, most businesses want straight salt rather then sand/salt due to tracking and spring clean up. Since I don't have a storage area, I have a proplem when I get a call from people asking for sand/salt when I only have salt on the truck. This is primarily from bars and such who are looking for traction for people and cars on their lots rather them ice control. Anyone else facing this and whats your solution?

Thanks


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Deershack;932022 said:


> SEPERATE QUESTION----- For those of you who just do salting. In this area, most businesses want straight salt rather then sand/salt due to tracking and spring clean up. Since I don't have a storage area, I have a proplem when I get a call from people asking for sand/salt when I only have salt on the truck. This is primarily from bars and such who are looking for traction for people and cars on their lots rather them ice control. Anyone else facing this and whats your solution?
> 
> Thanks


If you're going to get into the salting industry, you're going to have to build yourself a salt shed or find someplace that let's you store salt. there is really no otehr way around that unfortunately


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## Runner (Jul 21, 2000)

The salt chart is a cool thing, but I can sure say the part about the dry salt "blowing away before it melts anything" is a crock. I can see that the main reason it says this, is to encourage the reader to pre-wet the salt. Notice this obviously comes from a site trying to sell beet juice.
For the original poster, perhaps heavier salt would have helped, - maybe it wouldn't. The post about the plowing coming in a bit too little-too late is a good post and very valid point that is certainly a strong contributing factor. However, I think with the amount of salt you put down, an adequate amount of traffic in this lot should have contributed to ease this ice situation. However, it does beg the question...How thick was the ice? Someone else had touched on this, and it was an excellent point. Better chance than not, the salt was diluted down too much. By the time it burned down and reached the pavement to break the bond. The part about the bobcat not being able to get under it reinforces this. It's really not that uncommon that a lot in this condition has to have a substantially heavier ap, or better yet, a second ap.. The only downfall of the second ap is the labor factor. Anyway, go hit your hotspots (give 'em Hell!) and good luck with the account!


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## Deershack (Feb 19, 2009)

Runner: Perhaps you didn't see my post #23. There was about 1/4-1/2" ice on the lot. When they called me Mon morning, there had been very little if any traffic on the lot since Mon was the first day back after Christmas. I have made two runs through the lot and will probably make another. Thanks for the imput.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Deershack;932022 said:


> All the replies have been interesting. Some clarification may be in order. The plowing of the lot is done in house. It was their decision to wait till the 26 th to do the initial plow. I put down about 3000# of the treated salt on Sat night and the same amount on Sun. There was about 1/4 to 1/2 " of ice on the lot. With the material I was using, I thought that I was probably using at least enough or perhaps too much. I have about a ton of the treated left on the truck. I plan on adding 4-5T of straight salt on top of it and run the combination through the spreader on the snow we have coming. Think I will stick with straight salt from now on or at least untill we get an event that requires something hotter. US Salt here only offer straight or this green treated. I'm not aware of a supplier of "Magic" or the other products that have been mentioned in this area. I just may go back with the new load and carpet bomb the account to keep them happy. It's just the start of the season and want to keep them happy.
> 
> SEPERATE QUESTION----- For those of you who just do salting. In this area, most businesses want straight salt rather then sand/salt due to tracking and spring clean up. Since I don't have a storage area, I have a proplem when I get a call from people asking for sand/salt when I only have salt on the truck. This is primarily from bars and such who are looking for traction for people and cars on their lots rather them ice control. Anyone else facing this and whats your solution?
> 
> Thanks


 I don't have an ''inside'' storage area either,but myself and most plow/salting contractors around me simply go and buy our Magic salt from vendors who do have inside storage and treatment areas.This year,for different reasons,I'm almost doing 100% Magic salt.But just yesterday,a good friend who owns a plumbing supply warehouse has what I refer to as a ''glacier'' in his back lot.He didn't want to pay me during the year to fix his massive drainage issue,so now,as in most all Winters,he has app.6-8'' of solid ice. He had a few trucks get stuck there,so I brought him enough salted sand to paint the ice brown so the tires could get traction.So I would tell those cold callers that when you're through with your regular accounts using salt,if they insist they want/need salted sand,you might need to charge them a premium price because of the logistics---small minimum amounts,extra traveling,etc.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

redman6565;932043 said:


> If you're going to get into the salting industry, you're going to have to build yourself a salt shed or find someplace that let's you store salt. there is really no otehr way around that unfortunately


I agree, it's an additional overhead cost that has to be figured in if you can't get it direct from a local supplier & wait to apply it until they're open to load you.

We rent a fairly large building (split with another plower) to store treated sand & bulk salt all year. We keep a little const. stuff in there, but not much. It probably sounds stupid, but we usually load the sand up in spring or summer as it tends to dry quite a bit thru the summer, thus less salt required. If looking at it optimistically, that little salt savings probably pays a months rent. Regardless, its still alot of rent just to run bulk, so you have to crunch the #'s for yourself to make sure it works for you.


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

No matter how you look at it providing bulk salt service cost money. I look at this service as a different business all together. 

Bulk Salting service has added more to my gross sales than any other investment I have made. It is an investment. 

You need truck, salter, storage, and loader. The initial investment is a minimum of 20k if you buy all used equipment but well worth it. 

Who ever said salt only works at 28 degrees hasn't ever used any. My area doesn't get any warmer than 15 for weeks and we use salt ever day. I used salt today at 5 degrees and it worked fine on hard packed snow with ice underneath.


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## Deershack (Feb 19, 2009)

John Mac: Of all the things you mentioned needing, I have 3 of the 4, missing is the storage. I rent outdoor storage space and the City won't allow outdoor salt storage and I don't want to try to build a shed on rented land. All of my equip is paid for, thankfully. I have 2 dumps and a Case 1845c. Trucks are a Ford L-8000 with a road blade,belly blade and UTG sander and a Mack R-20 straight dump. Both are 5-6 yd boxes. I have a dirt bucket and a 8' Western blade for the 1845.

The only nuts I have to crack every month are the storage and Ins, Carry both 1,000,000 Bus ins and full auto on all the equip. At this point it's not in the cards to buy land to put up a shed that I will need for perhaps 5 mo of the year. Especially with no one wanting to loan money to small business owners.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Deershack;933004 said:


> John Mac: Of all the things you mentioned needing, I have 3 of the 4, missing is the storage. I rent outdoor storage space and the City won't allow outdoor salt storage and I don't want to try to build a shed on rented land. All of my equip is paid for, thankfully. I have 2 dumps and a Case 1845c. Trucks are a Ford L-8000 with a road blade,belly blade and UTG sander and a Mack R-20 straight dump. Both are 5-6 yd boxes. I have a dirt bucket and a 8' Western blade for the 1845.
> 
> The only nuts I have to crack every month are the storage and Ins, Carry both 1,000,000 Bus ins and full auto on all the equip. At this point it's not in the cards to buy land to put up a shed that I will need for perhaps 5 mo of the year. Especially with no one wanting to loan money to small business owners.


is there another contractor in the area that may be willing to rent you space or let you buy into his pile?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John Mac;932957 said:


> Who ever said salt only works at 28 degrees hasn't ever used any. My area doesn't get any warmer than 15 for weeks and we use salt ever day. I used salt today at 5 degrees and it worked fine on hard packed snow with ice underneath.


Obviously you are using the salt mined in the north and that is why it works.

You get that salt from Kentucky and it won't work.


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## Lightningllc (Nov 23, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;933214 said:


> Obviously you are using the salt mined in the north and that is why it works.
> 
> You get that salt from Kentucky and it won't work.


Mark, How bout the salt from europe that came over last year, WET WET, BROWN, ROCKY .

I bought some foe $130 /ton 6 ton in my dump and it froze solid in 1 hour.

All my buddies got salt dog speaders I really felt bad for them trying to dig it out.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Lightningllc;933267 said:


> Mark, How bout the salt from europe that came over last year, WET WET, BROWN, ROCKY .
> 
> I bought some foe $130 /ton 6 ton in my dump and it froze solid in 1 hour.
> 
> All my buddies got salt dog speaders I really felt bad for them trying to dig it out.


Well, I think we can extrapolate (I had to look the meaning for that word up) from TCLA's post that this type of salt would only work in the parts of Canada that use the metric system. Since it was mined in countries that use that system, it would only make sense that it would only work in that type system, right?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;933304 said:


> Well, I think we can extrapolate (I had to look the meaning for that word up) from TCLA's post that this type of salt would only work in the parts of Canada that use the metric system. Since it was mined in countries that use that system, it would only make sense that it would only work in that type system, right?


Extrapolate is one of my favorite words......

Yes, the European salt must be measured in Metric tonnes - talk to cretebaby for conversion factors - and effective temps are on the Celsius scale. Another problem you might be having is dispensing it from an "American" made salter in an "American" made truck.

Foreign tires such as Hankook will help........


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

2COR517;933314 said:


> Extrapolate is one of my favorite words......
> 
> Yes, the European salt must be measured in Metric tonnes - talk to cretebaby for conversion factors - and effective temps are on the Celsius scale. Another problem you might be having is dispensing it from an "American" made salter in an "American" made truck.
> 
> Foreign tires such as Hankook will help........


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Excellent Palmer, excellent!


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## Lightningllc (Nov 23, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;933304 said:


> Well, I think we can extrapolate (I had to look the meaning for that word up) from TCLA's post that this type of salt would only work in the parts of Canada that use the metric system. Since it was mined in countries that use that system, it would only make sense that it would only work in that type system, right?


I bought it on an american scale angelos in wixom, This was during that supposed salt shortage, (Money maker for salt owners to get more per ton)) That stuff really sucked do not buy salt outside of the us. Stick with northern salt canada has the best stuff. Mortons salt is very good, Cargill is ok, Detroit salt is the best.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Lightningllc;933349 said:


> I bought it on an american scale angelos in wixom, This was during that supposed salt shortage, (Money maker for salt owners to get more per ton)) That stuff really sucked do not buy salt outside of the us. Stick with northern salt canada has the best stuff. Mortons salt is very good, Cargill is ok, Detroit salt is the best.


See, point made and proven.

Had you applied it via Metric Tonnes, in an area that uses the metric system for measuring temps it would have worked just fine.

Oh, and had Hankook tyres.

Bet you had an American made truck and salter as well.


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

Mark Oomkes;933214 said:


> Obviously you are using the salt mined in the north and that is why it works.
> 
> You get that salt from Kentucky and it won't work.


See that is where you are wrong. You need the salt mined in the south because it obviously absorbs more heat holding it in until it touches ice. Once exposed to ice it releases its stored heat melting ice down to -28*.

You also have to take into consideration the bernoulli principle when spreading your salt. On a windy day the salt won't work as well because the wind above the salt actually creates higher pressure below the salt which lifts the salt of the ice just a little bit.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

terrapro;933364 said:


> See that is where you are wrong. You need the salt mined in the south because it obviously absorbs more heat holding it in until it touches ice. Once exposed to ice it releases its stored heat melting ice down to -28*.
> 
> You also have to take into consideration the bernoulli principle when spreading your salt. On a windy day the salt won't work as well because the wind above the salt actually creates higher pressure below the salt which lifts the salt of the ice just a little bit.


ROTFLMAO

Now everyone is looking at me wondering why I'm laughing my butt off.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

terrapro;933364 said:


> See that is where you are wrong. You need the salt mined in the south because it obviously absorbs more heat holding it in until it touches ice. Once exposed to ice it releases its stored heat melting ice down to -28*.
> 
> You also have to take into consideration the bernoulli principle when spreading your salt. On a windy day the salt won't work as well because the wind above the salt actually creates higher pressure below the salt which lifts the salt of the ice just a little bit.


Oh man. This changes everything. I see where you're going with the southern mined salt thing. That's going to be easy to adjust my slide rule for. But the bernoulli principle? I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned that before. So, now I need to correct not only for the lift induced on the salt, but the terrain also. So more salt on the crests of hills, less in the dips.

Someone better tell the DOT about this, one more excuse to spend a bazillion dollars on a study, and send the trucks out more.

I think we've really opened a can of worms here......


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

2COR517;933388 said:


> Oh man. This changes everything. I see where you're going with the southern mined salt thing. That's going to be easy to adjust my slide rule for. But the bernoulli principle? I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned that before. So, now I need to correct not only for the lift induced on the salt, but the terrain also. So more salt on the crests of hills, less in the dips.
> 
> Someone better tell the DOT about this, one more excuse to spend a bazillion dollars on a study, and send the trucks out more.
> 
> I think we've really opened a can of worms here......


See that's why people come to Plowsite, to get the pros opinions. There are so many things you need to take into consideration. The snow and ice industry is not for little girls anymore.


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

wow, the funny thing is that you most likely have alot of people not laughing right now and calling their suppliers asking about your posts! haha


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## Lightningllc (Nov 23, 2009)

Or you can become a csp and attend classes to become smart.

Or you can just listen to mark, He is a wise man.

I just learned from 4 years at msu and experiance in the field (Oh and grandpa did this work for years I used to ride along)) 

Or just do what alot of guys doing this work for someone for years quit and steal there work.

Oh and don't get me started about the """"BUY-OUT-GUYS""""""


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

terrapro;933406 said:


> See that's why people come to Plowsite, to get the pros opinions. There are so many things you need to take into consideration.
> *
> You sir, are a wise man. Now, where do I go about talking to these "pros"?*
> 
> The snow and ice industry is not for little girls anymore.


*
Uh oh, don't tell Mark *


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

2COR517;933423 said:


> *
> You sir, are a wise man. Now, where do I go about talking to these "pros"?
> 
> : *


I have no idea. Definately no where in this thread. We need ILLPLOWYOU here, he is the only pro I know.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;933304 said:


> Well, I think we can extrapolate that this type of salt would only work in the parts of Canada that use the metric system. Since it was mined in countries that use that system, it would only make sense that it would only work in that type system, right?


Precisely ~ I failed to mention this caveat earlier.

My bad......


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;933304 said:


> Well, I think we can extrapolate (I had to look the meaning for that word up) from TCLA's post that this type of salt would only work in the parts of Canada that use the metric system. Since it was mined in countries that use that system, it would only make sense that it would only work in that type system, right?


You and TCLA and a few others are throwing out some really BIG words....I just can't keep up with you fellas....Extrapolate,Caveat......I gotta go to the beginner section..


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

terrapro;933406 said:


> The snow and ice industry is not for little girls anymore.


Crap, better go find another forum to troll.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

WOW, i never knew salt was so complitcated!!! Man oh man, i have been doing it all wrong!!! Thanks for all the KEY points guys, everyone, make sure you talk to your salt suppliers, and get metric salt from the north, not standard salt from the south. This reminds me of this one time i put all the left handed nails in when i was suppose to be using right handed nails (anyone that actually believes this deserves what they get, and please, PLEASE, DON'T PROCREATE!!!)


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Matson Snow;933505 said:


> You and TCLA and a few others are throwing out some really BIG words....I just can't keep up with you fellas....Extrapolate,Caveat......I gotta go to the beginner section..


Let me know where it is, this Queen Dip**** needs to learn a lot.

Where is WizzPens? Maybe he can skool us all on salt usage. :waving:


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

Wow, that was a fun thread to read!  I really like the part about southern salt, I never new that. Thanks for the advise much apprciated.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So it looks like I was a 

#1

a 

#2 

and a 

#3 

all in one thread, deershack. 

Was there something in particular you didn't like about my posts in this thread or just me in general?

PS If it's me, you can tell, I'm a big girl and can handle the truth.


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;942291 said:


> I'm a big girl and can handle the truth.


any pictures? :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

nicksplowing;942327 said:


> any pictures? :laughing::laughing::laughing:


You do realize what will happen when GV reads this?.......


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

2COR517;942471 said:


> You do realize what will happen when GV reads this?.......


Hadn't until now.

Thanks, NOT


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Somebody PM'd this pic to me a while ago, but I refuse to comment on who MAY or MAY NOT be in this pic. :waving:

View attachment untitledR.bmp


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Looks like Mark could be in it 2 or 3 times! :laughing::laughing:


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## nicksplowing (Oct 5, 2005)

jomama45;942565 said:


> Somebody PM'd this pic to me a while ago, but I refuse to comment on who MAY or MAY NOT be in this pic. :waving:
> 
> View attachment 69290


look there salt is working :laughing:


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## CMU07 (Sep 29, 2009)

I am having a bit of the same problem. A lot I plow (a restaurant) with a 2" trigger has been developing ice. I told them to salt, gave them a price but they said no... until today, they've had a couple falls. I only did main drive area, two cars wide, as requested. I'd say 1000-1200' (high end estimation) x 20' path, used 400lbs of rock salt. It slushed most of it up, but didn't get it all. This was at 4pm. Checked it with previously mentioned results at 6:30pm.

My question is about the forementioned suggestion of heavier rate/another application. Would it be better to let it set, as the low should be around 20 tonight or go hit it heavier now (worried about refreeze)? I know the current results aren't going to please them, and I have a hard time having them associated with me.

As you might be able to tell, this is my first year, and don't want it to be my last. Thanks for any helpful suggestions.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

jomama45;942565 said:


> Somebody PM'd this pic to me a while ago, but I refuse to comment on who MAY or MAY NOT be in this pic. :waving:
> 
> View attachment 69290


Ah........they seem to be a nice bunch.

And look ~ I think they're applying beet juice!


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Mark Oomkes;942291 said:


> PS If it's me, you can tell, I'm a big girl and can handle the truth.





nicksplowing;942327 said:


> any pictures? :laughing::laughing::laughing:


So Mark what did he say when he called you?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

TCLA;943096 said:


> And look ~ I think they're applying beet juice!


No comment on that one!


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

I knew the pic wouldn't be pretty, but I expected a different direction.........

I don't picture Mark with a beard.......


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## Deershack (Feb 19, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;942291 said:


> So it looks like I was a
> 
> #1
> 
> ...


Mark: I have no idea what you are referring to. I don't recall saying anything to you in this thread. If your referring to another thread I posted. I guess my reply would be that if the shoe fits, wear it. I addressed the other thread to the site and not to anyone in particular. If you choose to take that post personally, that's you problem, not mine.


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## beverlylawncare (Nov 14, 2003)

So, I'm confused.... can you mix Southern Salt and Northern Beet Juice, or vice versa? I don't want to go raising the effectiveness of my salt. Last thing I want is for salt to work at only 45 degrees and warmer! 

:laughing:


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## DAFFMOBILEWASH (Dec 9, 2006)

Any one tried using old movie popcorn as a deicingétraction agent, high in sodium concentration and it`s coefficient of traction is fantastic. :laughing:


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

DAFFMOBILEWASH;943600 said:


> Any one tried using old movie popcorn as a deicingétraction agent, high in sodium concentration and* it`s coefficient of traction is fantastic. *:laughing:


No butter!!!!


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## unit28 (Jan 1, 2007)

hey now,
me and my grandkids love popcorn.........
{insert Gadsden Flag here}


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

Deershack;931133 said:


> I have a 3.25 A lot to salt. Area had a 15 to 20" snow fron the 23rd to the 25th. On the 25th we got mostly rain or freezing rain on top of the fall. Since the business was closed for those days, they didn't start plowing till the 26th. They got the snow off but there was a layer of ice left. They called me into salt.
> 
> I let US Salt talk me into loading "treated salt" in anticipation of the rain coming. This was a green tinged salt that they refered to as "Clear lane". I don't know if it actually was.
> 
> ...


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

CMU07;943062 said:


> I am having a bit of the same problem. A lot I plow (a restaurant) with a 2" trigger has been developing ice. I told them to salt, gave them a price but they said no... until today, they've had a couple falls. I only did main drive area, two cars wide, as requested. I'd say 1000-1200' (high end estimation) x 20' path, used 400lbs of rock salt. It slushed most of it up, but didn't get it all. This was at 4pm. Checked it with previously mentioned results at 6:30pm.
> 
> My question is about the forementioned suggestion of heavier rate/another application. Would it be better to let it set, as the low should be around 20 tonight or go hit it heavier now (worried about refreeze)? I know the current results aren't going to please them, and I have a hard time having them associated with me.
> 
> As you might be able to tell, this is my first year, and don't want it to be my last. Thanks for any helpful suggestions.


You should plow the slush off first and reapply salt if needed.
The salt isn't going to move it.


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