# no pedal after replacing and bleeding everything



## bgingras (Jan 16, 2004)

1995 K2500, 8600GVW.

It started with replacing the axle seals which resulted in wheel cylinders and all associated parts which resulted in rear lines. Front line ruptured after lowering the vehicle, replaced front lines and calipers(after bleeders broke). Each location has been bled twice now. I have no pedal pressure unless I pump hard then it builds but then drops to the floor and light comes on on the next push. I have good fluid to all 4 corners and don't think there is any air left. 

NEW: all lines rear cylinders, front calipers.

Could it be the master cylinder now?


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

How did you cycle the ABS module when bleeding the system?


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## CHPL (Oct 26, 2003)

The proprtioning valve is tripped, there is a tool to hold it in. some times it you bleed the proprtioning valve you can get the pedal up then bleed at the calipers some more.


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## bgingras (Jan 16, 2004)

each wheel was done at a separate time, each part was simply bled by vacuum pump from the bleeder valve. It started as one brake component, each time the truck was lowered another rupture occurred. I have done nothing more than use the vac pump at each point.

I'm starting to think maybe something else should have been done.


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## mn-bob (Sep 18, 2012)

Sound to me like you have a bad Master Cylinder .


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

Proportioning valve


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## woodchuck2 (Dec 4, 2010)

You need to power bleed it with a scan tool, sounds to me the ABS module is full of air. These are a PITA to bleed without a scan tool.


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## bgingras (Jan 16, 2004)

does it help to diagnose if I am now seeing fluid being forced from around the cover when pressing the pedal down? a jet of fluid comes out of the rear reservoir as well now.


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## CHPL (Oct 26, 2003)

follow the line from the master cyliinder until you find the proportioning valve and bleed it. Vacum bleeder will not work if the valve is tripped. Find a manual and bleed it followig the specific procedure or you will be forever trying to do it.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

If he has fluid coming out of all four bleeders the prop valve is not the problem.....


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## bgingras (Jan 16, 2004)

clear fluid to all four corners...the pedal drops to the floor with zero resistance the first time, on the second pump pressure builds, then more. When left for even 10 seconds there is no pressure again.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes it could be master....but I would bleed them again with 2 pple pump hold,,,pump hold way. Then look into the rear brake shoe adjustment


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## bgingras (Jan 16, 2004)

would the rear shoe adjustment cause this though? They had been backed off completely after the axle seals blew and rear locked up, the brakes still worked. I'll double check the rear shoes and bleed again.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

That's your problem. Adjust them properly


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Yea remember if there not adjusted it would take a lot of fluid to get the shoes to contact the drums. Then after you let off the pedal the springs would retract the shoes. That's why its important to keep shoes adjusted properly. A side bar,,,the vacuum bleaders aren't the best for bleeding b/c you aren't acuating the master cylinder,,so air is Gunna get trapped somewhere


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Not entirely true. A vacuum bleeder is fine for the most part. Even when replacing master cylinder we still vacuum bleed 9/10
Times.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok. I've never used anything but another persons foot


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

Neither did i until I brought a vacuum lol. Makes it so much easier


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok. Not thinking I wanna try it. But if it works for u,,,run with it


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## bgingras (Jan 16, 2004)

crawled under and looked at adjustment on the rears, they don't have any spacing the the drum at all really. I'm thinking of bleeding the rear one more time since so much line was installed on that circuit just in case we still have air in there.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok. Start at right rear then then left. Then right ft. The left front. And see if you can use someones foot instead of the bleeder


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## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

If you can't find an assistant to press the brake pedal you can use a one man bleeder kit...it's a little bottle with a hose and a check valve, costs under $10 at parts store or Harbor Freight. Hose it to the bleeder, open bleeder, step on brake a few times, close bleeder, empty bottle, repeat as necessary.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...-pc-one-man-brake-bleeder-autocraft_9020969-p
http://www.harborfreight.com/one-man-brake-bleeder-kit-37201.html
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/ac...leeder-kit/_/N-26qw?itemIdentifier=46839_0_0_

Then there's speed bleeders if you plan to bleed the same vehicle often...they're replacement bleeder fittings with a check valve.


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## PDQ Pete (Dec 22, 2002)

I think you have to do what woodchuck2 advises.


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

You need to check rears properly. Jack up rear end put in neutral. If tire spins more than one revolution by hand they're too loose. I'm 100% certain it's your problem


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## Whiffyspark (Dec 23, 2009)

If pedal isn't firm after one round of bleeding you have another problem 99% of the time. There's no reason to bleed the system 5-10 times


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

woodchuck2;1527619 said:


> You need to power bleed it with a scan tool, sounds to me the ABS module is full of air. These are a PITA to bleed without a scan tool.


15 years as full time tech never needed to use a scan tool to bleed brakes yet. Even when I do a complete brake line job on these Ive never had trouble bleeding them. Sometimes if you get air in the master you need to start there first to get it working.


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## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

brad96z28;1529676 said:


> 15 years as full time tech never needed to use a scan tool to bleed brakes yet. Even when I do a complete brake line job on these Ive never had trouble bleeding them. Sometimes if you get air in the master you need to start there first to get it working.


Serious question, not arguing, just curious: Have you ever had to replace an ABS module, and if so, how did you bleed it?

That's been on my mind for a few days...on Saturday, during ABS activation (attempting to stop on ice), my pedal went to the floor. In 10 years and 212,000 miles, half of which was winter driving, it's always pushed back at me when ABS engaged, so it going to the floor was a bit alarming.


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

theholycow;1529920 said:


> Serious question, not arguing, just curious: Have you ever had to replace an ABS module, and if so, how did you bleed it?
> 
> That's been on my mind for a few days...on Saturday, during ABS activation (attempting to stop on ice), my pedal went to the floor. In 10 years and 212,000 miles, half of which was winter driving, it's always pushed back at me when ABS engaged, so it going to the floor was a bit alarming.


I have repaced quite a few ebcm's on chevy trucks, Bleed it the same way I bleed every brake job I do. I know my tech 2 will do it but never had to yet.


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## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

brad96z28;1532252 said:


> I have repaced quite a few ebcm's on chevy trucks, Bleed it the same way I bleed every brake job I do. I know my tech 2 will do it but never had to yet.


I thought I was the only person in the world who knows it's called "EBCM". People look at me funny/ask what the hell I'm talking about. Ok anyway...

Since you have that experience, does my symptom (pedal to the floor _only_ during ABS engagement) sound like an EBCM that needs to be bled or like a failed EBCM, or like something else entirely?


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

When I run into the rust build up on the hub issues. The pedal fades on me, never have gotten a hard pedal or kick back.


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## Mike N (Dec 21, 2008)

bgingras;1527360 said:


> 1995 K2500, 8600GVW.
> 
> It started with replacing the axle seals which resulted in wheel cylinders and all associated parts which resulted in rear lines. Front line ruptured after lowering the vehicle, replaced front lines and calipers(after bleeders broke). Each location has been bled twice now. I have no pedal pressure unless I pump hard then it builds but then drops to the floor and light comes on on the next push. I have good fluid to all 4 corners and don't think there is any air left.
> 
> ...


Calipers on the correct sides up front? Bleeder screws on the top?


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## coldcoffee (Jul 17, 2008)

Mike N;1533272 said:


> Calipers on the correct sides up front? Bleeder screws on the top?


That's actually a good point, I've had it happen to me twice...only when someone else was trying to help, which is why I like to do one side at a time.

My buddy likes to clamp the rubber end of the line, which I'm not a fan of either...It's always worked except for one time where it caused the line to stretch & caused an unnoticeable "give" when we were bleeding. We went round and round for hours...every time we stepped on the peddle the line expanded just enough to make the pedal drop. Replaced that piece & all was good.


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## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

brad96z28;1532738 said:


> When I run into the rust build up on the hub issues. The pedal fades on me, never have gotten a hard pedal or kick back.


I apologize for being a pest, but can you clarify? Not sure if that period was meant to be a comma (hence rust buildup = pedal fade), or if you mean something else.

I recently replaced one hub assembly, and on the other I cleaned the rust and replaced the sensor...but as far as I can figure that can only affect when it does or doesn't engage, not how the pedal feels.


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## bgingras (Jan 16, 2004)

Got it fixed, finally!!!

Fluid was all foam on the rear. It took another quart of fluid and a vac pump and someone on the pedal. I think letting it sit a week also may helped. Onto picking up my plow. Thanks everyone.


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## brad96z28 (Aug 21, 2005)

theholycow;1533625 said:


> I apologize for being a pest, but can you clarify? Not sure if that period was meant to be a comma (hence rust buildup = pedal fade), or if you mean something else.
> 
> I recently replaced one hub assembly, and on the other I cleaned the rust and replaced the sensor...but as far as I can figure that can only affect when it does or doesn't engage, not how the pedal feels.


Just a common problem on most of the trucks I service the complaint is abs activation at low speeds,wich usually equals to the rust bulid up on hubs. Upon a road test when the abs activates due to a faulty signal the pedale ratchets and fades. Driving my own truck today having an o shi!, stand on the brake stop. The pedal had A similar feeling.I dont recall many pedals feeling good during the abs activation. I agree with you the sensors will not change how the pedal feels. I was just trying to explain how the pedal feels in my truck when it activates.


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## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

Thanks, now I get it.

That does match other reports I've read. I'm not sure why it always hardened and pushed back at me, considering all that, and I'm curious what has changed now, but maybe I don't need to panic too much.


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