# Bidding A Townhouse Association



## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

Hello,

I'm hopeful someone can help me with this one. After years of running equipment for other people in my off season, I was asked enough if I plowed so I am bidding it out for myself this year. I've installed all brand new V Plows and Tailgate Spreaders in my trucks. I may even purchase rear plow for this property and some others I already have locked in. I haven't bid one like this yet though.

I was asked to quote the main road, driveways and that bit of sidewalk. The dark black is two more drives and you can see where they want all their snow to go.

Would anyone mind sharing pricing tips? I don't need exact numbers but since each building has 4 driveways, should all four be quoted seperate from one another? How much time do you think needs to be added to get all the snow to one specific spot? I think this could easily get up to an unrealistic price with how I've quoted a few other things.

Any helpful suggestions?


----------



## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

That might be a 1 and 1/2 of man hrs on a six incher. I would take advantage of a pusher if you can’t lose the snow on the shoulders


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Maybe EWS is in a good mood today and sharing knowledge. Whats the story on not having a contract so late in the season? Good you got the Vee plows to move the snow. Should have a pull behind for driveways.

Being there is no separation in the drives I would bid them as one.


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

How much snow do you get ? Stockpiling thousands of yards of snow to that one spot could be a problem.1st few snowfalls I guess you could feed a truck who could push it into that area. Do you have access to a loader ? Maybe have someone come in between storms and pile it high to make room ? Pushing across a dirt lot can also make a huge mess in warmer temps.It will look like a mud bog race course ! Pricing? no idea for your area.


----------



## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

leigh said:


> How much snow do you get ? Stockpiling thousands of yards of snow to that one spot could be a problem.1st few snowfalls I guess you could feed a truck who could push it into that area. Do you have access to a loader ? Maybe have someone come in between storms and pile it high to make room ? Pushing across a dirt lot can also make a huge mess in warmer temps.It will look like a mud bog race course ! Pricing? no idea for your area.


We tend to get around 43" a year on average but this will probably be more. Those areas are all now paved and it is basically a drop off on the other side however I also do have access to loaders, dumps, trailers, etc if it does start to stack up. I understand pricing isn't realistic to discuss because of all the variables. I was mainly looking for other opinions on things I haven't thought of, like stockpiling snow or as Fred said, why are they looking for someone this late in the season.


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

FredG said:


> Maybe EWS is in a good mood today and sharing knowledge. Whats the story on not having a contract so late in the season? Good you got the Vee plows to move the snow. Should have a pull behind for driveways.
> 
> Being there is no separation in the drives I would bid them as one.


Ok Fred, I'll give my 2 pennies. 
I have done some of these in the past. 
You can do this without a back blade, if you have a sidewalk crew there to clean out in front of garage doors. 
I'd figure 1.5 - 2 hours for a 2-3" event with a v plow. 
One tailgate spreader of salt won't be enough. 
Places like this tend to drift, so you want enough salt down to take care of light drifting. You will probably also have to return trip to clean up drifts, etc.
It looks like you'll have 16 "bosses " who know nothing, but think they do. Add a little for the time they each hold you up to tell you how they want it done. If you're doing it through a property manager, they will have never gone through after you've done, but will call you every time someone complains. You may go there and find nothing, because the complaint actually came before you got there.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

EWSplow said:


> It looks like you'll have 16 "bosses " who know nothing, but think they do. Add a little for the time they each hold you up to tell you how they want it done.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

EWSplow said:


> Ok Fred, I'll give my 2 pennies.
> I have done some of these in the past.
> You can do this without a back blade, if you have a sidewalk crew there to clean out in front of garage doors.
> I'd figure 1.5 - 2 hours for a 2-3" event with a v plow.
> ...


 I know you could manage plowing and spreading. I was thinking more on the pricing tips from cheese head to cheese head in the same City.


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

FredG said:


> I know you could manage plowing and spreading. I was thinking more on the pricing tips from cheese head to cheese head in the same City.


If I knew his operating costs, I probably could. 
He just bought new v plows, he may have truck payments, and, or he could have to make money for major repairs. I don't know how much he pays for commercial auto, liability and work comp insurance.

OP, you said that "bit of sidewalk". If I'm looking at it correctly, there are walks at each unit, a walk along the road through the property (top and right of that road). There also appears to be a walk along the main road (left side of your pic). Unless you heard otherwise from the condo association, I would assume that the property owner and their contractor is responsible for that as well. Your sidewalk crew could have nearly as much time invested as your plow operator. I'm also guessing the municipal plows will bury the walk on the main road at least once per event.


----------



## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

EWS - Yes, those walkways are included also. Saying "Bit" was probably an understatement.

My plow trucks are all within 3 years old so hopefully I wouldn't have to make any repairs right out of the gate on them. All the plow equipment is also brand new this year. Crossing my fingers no major repairs are needed right away. My commercial auto, comp and liability is in the 10s of thousands a year but that is because of my main business. The snow plowing insurance was a drop in the bucket compared to what I normally pay for everything else.

You definitely know more about this kind of stuff than I do. Some of the things I don't want to do is improperly bid things like this. I don't want to ruin the market by being way under what I should be. I would rather be much higher and not get it.


----------



## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

EWSplow said:


> If I knew his operating costs, I probably could.
> He just bought new v plows, he may have truck payments, and, or he could have to make money for major repairs. I don't know how much he pays for commercial auto, liability and work comp insurance.
> 
> OP, you said that "bit of sidewalk". If I'm looking at it correctly, there are walks at each unit, a walk along the road through the property (top and right of that road). There also appears to be a walk along the main road (left side of your pic). Unless you heard otherwise from the condo association, I would assume that the property owner and their contractor is responsible for that as well. Your sidewalk crew could have nearly as much time invested as your plow operator. I'm also guessing the municipal plows will bury the walk on the main road at least once per event.


Nice eye. I thought that was a shoulder


----------



## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

ParagonExt said:


> EWS - Yes, those walkways are included also. Saying "Bit" was probably an understatement.
> 
> My plow trucks are all within 3 years old so hopefully I wouldn't have to make any repairs right out of the gate on them. All the plow equipment is also brand new this year. Crossing my fingers no major repairs are needed right away. My commercial auto, comp and liability is in the 10s of thousands a year but that is because of my main business. The snow plowing insurance was a drop in the bucket compared to what I normally pay for everything else.
> 
> You definitely know more about this kind of stuff than I do. Some of the things I don't want to do is improperly bid things like this. I don't want to ruin the market by being way under what I should be. I would rather be much higher and not get it.


Since I now know what you're other business is, I'm guessing you have dump trailers. Not the most efficient way of hauling snow, but it would work if there's a need to haul out when you run out of room. Write the haul out price in your bid.
I'm thinking your labor costs for snow should be 1.5 - 2 times the labor rate you charge for the other business. 
I'd much rather be in a plow truck than doing exterior work in winter. 
It sounds like you should have guys available for sidewalks, etc. If they're hourly, an incentive to get them out to shovel would be 1-1/2 times their normal pay. 
I have pulled guys off construction jobs to shovel and that's how I did it.


----------



## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

These look like condos. If so they want one price for everything and their board pays. And they always pick the lowest price and call late. 

Looks like you can plow that sidewalk?? At least for deeper snow. 

Put all the snow there Why? To add cost is only reason there. Plow the road like a normal person and back drag the drives.

2 truck hours and 2 man hours for that walk. Different story tailgate salting that road.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

I would put some thought into the area where they want the snow piles. Looks like grass in there. If the ground is not completely froze over you could be getting stuck in there.

If that's the case there will be a lot of stacking and pushing back required with loader or skid. Make sure you have a price for loader hourly in case this proves true. Maybe ride over there and see if you can get in and out without mucking.

You will have to plow that area out to so you can get the snow in there.


----------



## jasburrito (Jul 9, 2014)

Ask how much they paid last year? See if it worth your time before buying expensive equipment. There might be guys running around in beaters that plowed that for cheap. You might need to charge 3 times as much with your newer stuff. Know your cost.


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Also ask about the condo rules maybe get a copy. Specifically regarding parking in drives, roadways etc. Some have rules about cars being in the garage others dont. Its a big factor time wise when they all come out when you show and start jockeying around.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

I don’t know what the big deal is about sidewalks, everybody told me they can run down them with their single stage blower,
Muni berm or no muni berm .


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mr.Markus said:


> Also ask about the condo rules maybe get a copy. Specifically regarding parking in drives, roadways etc. Some have rules about cars being in the garage others dont. Its a big factor time wise when they all come out when you show and start jockeying around.


If you service between 12-5 you usually don't have that problem, at least around here


----------



## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> If you service between 12-5 you usually don't have that problem, at least around here


I wish that were true


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I do some low income seniors appartments that i try to do before 5 am because its a SS when they all come out into the parking lot wanting their spots done first.
Drop the blade at 4 am and watch all the appartment lights turn on. I do it sometimes when lot checking just for my own entertainment.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mudly said:


> I wish that were true


I wouldn't lie to you, I have nothing to gain from
Doing so


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

When I did the cul-de-sac rally routes, I prayed we got to do them during the night. Every JA wanted to tell you how bad of a job you do if you did them in the day time.

One street had a purfect push to put all the snow right into the same front yard every event. 

The one time we did them in the day, I spread it out cause the guy was watching out his front window the whole time. 

When I was almost done, he brought me out a soda and thanked me for not being like the normal a-hole that does his street, he tells me that jerk puts all the snow in his yard every damn time. :laugh:


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mr.Markus said:


> I do it sometimes when lot checking just for my own entertainment.


LMAO:laugh:


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Mr.Markus said:


> I do some low income....
> Drop the blade at 4 am and watch all the appartment lights turn on. I do it sometimes when lot checking just for my own entertainment.


 You should try cranking stranglehold by Ted Nugent On the ole hifi. With the windows open,Now that gets them making phone calls....

Come on,,,,,come on,,now baby.....

Not that I'd ever do anything like that.


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

There's a reason im down to 3 speakers in my truck and a good bout of tinnitus.






( "I played this song to my grandma and now she wrestles in the WWE") LOL


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

This is another great oldie that get's your blood pumping while plowing...


----------



## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I wouldn't lie to you, I have nothing to gain from
> Doing so


No no. Just not true for me


----------



## Mudly (Feb 6, 2019)

Mr.Markus said:


> I do some low income seniors appartments that i try to do before 5 am because its a SS when they all come out into the parking lot wanting their spots done first.
> Drop the blade at 4 am and watch all the appartment lights turn on. I do it sometimes when lot checking just for my own entertainment.


Makes me want to take the lettering off the truck


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> I do some low income seniors appartments that i try to do before 5 am because its a SS when they all come out into the parking lot wanting their spots done first.
> Drop the blade at 4 am and watch all the appartment lights turn on. I do it sometimes when lot checking just for my own entertainment.


 Problem solved


----------



## andy2020 (Feb 23, 2020)

ParagonExt said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm hopeful someone can help me with this one. After years of running equipment for other people in my off season, I was asked enough if I plowed so I am bidding it out for myself this year. I've installed all brand new V Plows and Tailgate Spreaders in my trucks. I may even purchase rear plow for this property and some others I already have locked in. I haven't bid one like this yet though.
> 
> ...


----------



## andy2020 (Feb 23, 2020)

450 600 per event


----------

