# Grader Guy



## NorthDakota

Hey guys i have seen a lot of great pics of plows, pickups and other trucks plowing. I am a grader guy and want see some shots of some grader with snow equipment... v plows wings and molboards.....Lets see what you guys got....I will post a pic of my grader when we get the wing on.


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## sweetk30

sounds cool i want to see some also. :yow!:


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## 04superduty

check out youtube, their is a handfull of videos their. their are a few people here that plow with graders, but not that many.


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## WingPlow

i also run a grader and theres been a few threads here with graders and snow equipment

as soon as we get ours fitted for winter i'll have a few pics...should be in a couple weeks


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## WingPlow

heres one thats been posted before


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## austin23

WingPlow;614609 said:


> heres one thats been posted before


that looks like a scene from fargo.


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## NorthDakota

ya, you betcha....it definetly looks like ND.


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## 4x4Farmer

Is definitly not right by fargo, casue there is a hill in the background! lol Thats what we call a hill from here. lol Hey North Dakota, where ya from? What kind of grader do you run?


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## NorthDakota

Champion 720 in Fargo


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## Ford-101

heres some I found on the web


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## Oshkosh

*Our Dresser 606A*

Here is one of our towns 1987 Dresser 606A..


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## 4x4Farmer

this is the only clip I have of a maintainer, its one of the citys rigs that we got behind. North Dakota, do you work for someone in town, or is it your rig? Im trying to think of who runs a champion grader and all i can think of is oye.
http://i29.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid29.photobucket.com/albums/c284/xc500rule/MOV00487-1.flv


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## NorthDakota

Here are a few I found on the internet...I did not take these.


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## NorthDakota

Couple more


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## NorthDakota

Here is the grader we run at work...I was out grading some gravel roads.


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## NorthDakota

couple more....the wing should be put on next week.


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## granitefan713

Here are two brand new, mysteriously un-branded, Deere graders.


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## Jt13speed

Nice nice nice!!! Man i love runnin Grader, Ive run a Champ 720A just like that here at school. Im in college right now for Heavy Equip Operation (last semester). I know you dont necessarily have to go to college for that kind of stuff but we learned so much more then just running the equipment...like surveying, GPS systems, alittle technician stuff like basic troubleshooting and being familiar with the engines and how they work and the hydraulic systems as well...its totally worth it!! 

Sweet Deere Graders! They arent completely Unbranded, you just gotta know where to look! Front windshield very top near the roof, clearly Decaled JOHN DEERE. lol


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## Jt13speed

Heres a pic of our Champion, when i was workin on layin a road base. And Also our oldy but goody John Deere Grader...i was just grading off our practice field for diggin basements with excavators and such.


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## NorthDakota

Here are a couple more graders off the web....I don't really see many Case road graders around ND


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## VAhighwayman

You don't see too many CASE graders around at all.


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## Mark13

A few I've had the chance to run. Spent about 5hrs in the old Cat No12. And about an hour in the Allis Chalmers D-1. These were talken at the Rock River Thresheree just north of Jainesville, Wi.


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## NorthDakota

Got our wing on today


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## NorthDakota

Saw this at the DOT yesterday when I made a parts run.


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## NorthDakota

I found these on the montana dot web page.


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## WingPlow

that 772 looks like a twin to the one i run here

i'll get some pics this week if i remember the camera


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## broncoplower21

they use to plow around my city when i was younger with a few graders. mostly did side streets with them. but now they are like a thing of the past here. must be the high fuel prices...


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## 04superduty

I think another reason that graders are not around plowing as much is the number of dirt roads are dissapearing. at least here they are trying to reduce the number of dirt roads due to the high maintance cost, which were maintained with graders.


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## NorthDakota

I agree with superduty with the less roads to maintain...unless your in ND were there are a ton of gravel roads....I think the biggest reason lesss graders are around is cost....they do cost more than a truck.....They do a much better job of cleaning ice and hard pack then a truck....in the rural areas graders are mounted with a v plow too. THey can punch a hole through a drift that truck would not be able, push back and remove and hard pack all at the same time....if you had truck you probably need to bring another piece of equipment to help out.


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## NorthDakota

Couple of graders from Clay county in Minnesota....I see they got a Cat 14m....Might have to go take a look one day and you can see how they change a cutting edge!  again from clay county


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## WingPlow

found these online....


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## BORIS

I want the last one. Wow that would moooove the snow!


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## Lawn Enforcer

I think a grader would be so much fun to plow with. Maybe if I get some big parking lot accounts some day, I'll have to pick one up.


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## Dirtboy953B

The main reason they do not use graders around here in Mo is they tear up the road to much ....you know to much down press. I am a operator by trade and have a excavating biz my self and love graders I think there are truly a wonderful piece of equipment


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## CAT 245ME

The large grader in the last picture is the worlds largest that has been built, there is actually two of them that were built in the early 80's by the Umberto Acco in Italy, each grader had two Caterpillar engines, one up front and one in the back, I dont think the graders were ever used except maybee on a job or two.

The same company also built the worlds largest dozer that was just under 200 tons and had twin Caterpillar engines to power the big crawler.


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## crash444

> Heres a pic of our Champion, when i was workin on layin a road base. And Also our oldy but goody John Deere Grader...i was just grading off our practice field for diggin basements with excavators and such.
> Attached Images


Just wondering why are the front tires on backwards or tread is going oppiste of the rear?


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## VAhighwayman

Sticking a motorgrader in a parking lot for snow removal unles it was a huge shopping mall lot isn't that good of an idea. Having an area where the operater can push long and no repeatingly backing up and turning is great. What would be even better would be a front mounted power angle 12ft plow blade like I had on mine and with the combination using the belly blade, you got yourself a wide push.
As for whar Dirtyboy said, I rarely had a problem pushing snow with the belly blade on roads and highways if you keep the blade in float. I only put down pressure on the blade if I was removing ice or thick packed snow and that was usally on the left left cylinder closest to the center of the road


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## NorthDakota

internet pic


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## jdo150

[/QUOTE]

We have the same one as that orange one I think that it is a alice chalmers if im not mistaken my grandfather has owened it since the 50's and he bought it used and it was like 10 years old then..... he painted ours green to match the company color tho ours still runs and operates but never gets used we always just use our finish dozer to grade because we don't realy do road work so there is no need for a grader. I want to resotore it tho it is a cool machine


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## WingPlow

that looks like its an allis chalmers 45 i beleive


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## NorthDakota

Keep the pics coming guys!!!


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## NorthDakota

16m Cat that i saw at local store


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## snowman79

man those 16M are some huge and awesome machines


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## NorthDakota

a grader I found on the web


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## Lawn Enforcer

The town I live in used to have 2 private company graders do the city streets, cleaned the roads nicely and pushed the snow back far. They lost the account this year to some trucking company with an old Ford single axle truck with front and wing plow, and 2 front-end loaders with old highway department wings mounted in place of the bucket. They don't clean very well and it takes them x2 or x3 longer to do the streets than the 2 graders.
The city accepted the trucking company because they were "cheaper per hour" but it takes them so much longer to do the work- how can that be saving money? Bring the graders back!


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## WingPlow

heres a quick pic of ours....soon as we get more snow i'll have some better ones


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## NorthDakota

Our grader working...


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## CityGuy

Who makes the Chapion I haven't heard of them?


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## Duramax66

I need one of those


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## willyswagon

Hamelfire;712772 said:


> Who makes the Chapion I haven't heard of them?


Champion Motor Grader. Which is now owned by Volvo I beleve


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## dlnimsy

*wabco grader*

My waco grader when i first bought it.(dont got it no more) I had a 12ft funnel plow on the it and got rid of that silly winch an the front and replaced it with a piston. was asweet running machine.I also had a 1952 Cat 12 this is the only pic of it i have. Iwas painting the old girl at the time.


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## NorthDakota

Yes champion isnow volvo


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## Ironmaster

*D686*

1976 Champion D686 powered by V-671 Detroite 
no comfort options 
warnings: this machine will kill you befor you can think about killing it.
To bad this warning did not apply to newer champion graders


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## plowguy23

I Run a Clark 301 grader. Old but nice machine hopin next storm i can get some pics up for everyone.


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## Ironmaster

*clark 301*

is the clark 301 a six wheel drive machine or similar to the austin western grader?


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## WingPlow

isnt the 301 a single axle machine ?


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## Ironmaster

*clark*

available in both single and double


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## snowman4

NorthDakota;682239 said:


> a grader I found on the web


Anyone else find something wrong with this picture?


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## Craaaig

mmmmm no, whats wrong with it?


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## Jdeerekid

Just happen to find this pic posted on another website I frequent. Thought it was pretty cool.


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## plowguy23

The one I run is a single axle machine. But clark did make a tandem also. I like the single because i can maneuver around better and i got a tiny round-a-bout on the main road i plow.


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## WingPlow

i ran a single axle Clark for a few years, was a decent machine...kinda slow is all 

whats wrong with that pic ?????????


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## CAT 245ME

NorthDakota;713164 said:


> Yes champion isnow volvo


What most people dont know is that Champion was a Canadian tymusic company based in Ontario. The company was origionaly called the Dominion road machinary company that was changed back in the late 70's to Champion road machinary, but the company later was taken over by Volvo back in the late 90's. Volvo had kept the Champion name for a while but it later was changed to Volvo.

Interesting fact is that Champion had built the largest production grader known as the 100T nicknamed "Big Mudder", even today the 100T is larger than Caterpillar's 24H & 24M models but has the same blade width of the Cat graders. I think there is still a few 100T's in use but I dont think there was many built to begin with, the 100T was only in production for around 10 years.


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## NorthDakota

good information


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## snowman4

Craaaig;748401 said:


> mmmmm no, whats wrong with it?


I forgot I wrote that. Umm it just helps when the wheels are titled the other way. So not only is he not helping himself out by titling the wheels the right way he's giving himself a lot of work by having them tilted the way they are!

If you notice he has his wheels titled but he is also turning them the opposite way.


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## WingPlow

snowman4;753211 said:


> I forgot I wrote that. Umm it just helps when the wheels are titled the other way. So not only is he not helping himself out by titling the wheels the right way he's giving himself a lot of work by having them tilted the way they are!
> 
> If you notice he has his wheels titled but he is also turning them the opposite way.


i've always found that when i,m winging the fronts tilted to the side with the wing helps keep me into the bank rather then tilted out where it seems to want to pull away


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## KL&M Snow Div.

Those plows are huge! Biggest we have around here are the ones on the county dump trucks.


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## snowman4

*Wheel Tilt*

This is the picture I was talking about.


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## leroycool

what about it ???


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## Jt13speed

Uh lets see here...wheels leaned in the direction he is windrowing, check! 

maybe you dont know that thats somethin motorgraders can do, your front wheels can be leaned to either side.

FYI As known by any motorgrader operator, front wheels are to be leaned so the top of the tires point to the side in which you are sending the windrowed material to compensate for side-draft, aka to keep the machine from getting pushed sideways, even though theres always a point to which no matter how much you have them leaned if what you are pushin becomes to much or you find somethin solid under it...aint enough traction in the world gonna stop from pushin you off your line!


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## CityGuy

*Couple of pics found on the web*

Few from the web.


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## CityGuy

*web finds*

Few more web finds


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## snowman4

Jt13speed;753630 said:


> Uh lets see here...wheels leaned in the direction he is windrowing, check!
> 
> maybe you dont know that thats somethin motorgraders can do, your front wheels can be leaned to either side.
> 
> FYI As known by any motorgrader operator, front wheels are to be leaned so the top of the tires point to the side in which you are sending the windrowed material to compensate for side-draft, aka to keep the machine from getting pushed sideways, even though theres always a point to which no matter how much you have them leaned if what you are pushin becomes to much or you find somethin solid under it...aint enough traction in the world gonna stop from pushin you off your line!


Are you 100% sure about that?


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## WingPlow

snowman4;753796 said:


> Are you 100% sure about that?


why dont you give us your take on the subject ??
you've mentioned that picture a couple times now but wont tell us what you seem to think is wrong


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## snowman4

snowman4;753211 said:


> I forgot I wrote that. Umm it just helps when the wheels are titled the other way. So not only is he not helping himself out by titling the wheels the right way he's giving himself a lot of work by having them tilted the way they are!
> 
> If you notice he has his wheels titled but he is also turning them the opposite way.


Post # 65....

I figured I'd save you guys from arguing by pointing out the really obvious fact that it is pretty damn hard to turn left, with a wing down and your wheels tilted right!

If you look, his wheels are titled right, steering wheel turned left.... does that not defeat the purpose of titling the wheels? I'm sure he is not trying to turn left but rather compensating for the front-end of the grader moving in, towards the right. The only reason it is moving in to the right is because he has his wheels titled right. The wheel tilt is there to help you by not having to constantly turn the steering wheel from the forces applied to the grader when pushing that much.

I still think the wheels are titled the wrong way in the first place though....


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## Craaaig

i would like to hear some input from North Dakota and Oshkosh or any other seasoned grader operator on the matter before this carries on for too long


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## fisher guy

what u trying to find out craaaig?


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## Craaaig

just read the previous posts regarding the wheels tilted on the grader in one of the pictures and you'll get the dispute that is emerging, i'm not gonna give my opinion because i do not know enough about graders and i'm not going to pretend i do


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## fisher guy

oh i didnt even notice it


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## snowman4

Craaaig;754006 said:


> just read the previous posts regarding the wheels tilted on the grader in one of the pictures and you'll get the dispute that is emerging, i'm not gonna give my opinion because i do not know enough about graders and i'm not going to pretend i do


To be honest in that amount of snow and since it isn't being pushed hard into a bank I wouldn't have my wheels titled as much as they are in that one picture (regardles of what direction they should be titled).

For example, doing mains or open country roads most pictures you will find the wheels are probably pretty close to being straight.

Here is my explanation for why the wheels are supposed to be leaned the other way.

If you are plowing a road, say a residential road and you are pushing it into a bank there is as much force going into the bank as there is from the bank going to the grader. (Neuton's third law, every action has an opposite and equal reaction).

The wing is located at the tail end of the grader. This force pushing on the grader is even more prnounced say when you hit a big chunk of bank that is sticking out and frozen solid.

You would think you you would want your wheels titled intoward the bank to guide you in and along the bank since like I said there is a force pushing you away from it. However, since your wing is at the rear of the grader (especially the part sticking out taking more forces) the force is pushing at the tail end of the grader more than it is way up front where your wheels are.

Think if you hit a hard chunk of ice with your wheels straight, your tail-end swings out and obvious your front end in (typical seasaw...). If your front wheels are leaned into the bank, when your tail-end swings out, your front-end is going to swing in a lot more and a lot easier (think of a vehicle with rear-wheel steering). If you titlt your wheels the opposite direction of the windrow when you are plowing with a wing and pushing hard into a bank, the wheel tilt will help you guide the grader straight. It does this by keeping the tail-end of the grader into the bank. If there is a force at the front of the grader pushing the front-end to the left, this pushes the rear end to the right (seasaw...). If the rear end is pushed to the right, where your wing is it helps to counter the force from the bank pushing your rear end out from where you are trying to push hard into.

How do you prevent your front-end from tracking left? Well, you only use as much wheel titlt as you need. The tilt is only used to counter the force applied on the grader that would make you constantly have to steer to keep you alligned.

In no way am I the most experience grader operator out there but that seems to be my trick...and most other graders I see. Maybe others have another oppinion? I will respect that and would like to hear there explanation.


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## fisher guy

im not even going to jump in on the conversation lol everyone has there different operating technique as for the picure about with the grader with the wheels tilted it seems fine even though the op. is giving himself a lot work trying to turn the wheel while there tilted like that if he just tilts them back a lil hed make the turn alot easier otherwise hes just gonna slide


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## fisher guy

i gotta admit snow man has a point


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## snowman4

*Here is what I'm saying....*

I thought I would re-post this so that it's on the same page since my explanation was the last post on page 4.

To be honest in that amount of snow and since it isn't being pushed hard into a bank I wouldn't have my wheels titled as much as they are in that one picture (regardles of what direction they should be titled).

For example, doing mains or open country roads most pictures you will find the wheels are probably pretty close to being straight.

Here is my explanation for why the wheels are supposed to be leaned the other way.

If you are plowing a road, say a residential road and you are pushing it into a bank there is as much force going into the bank as there is from the bank going to the grader. (Neuton's third law, every action has an opposite and equal reaction).

The wing is located at the tail end of the grader. This force pushing on the grader is even more pronounced when you hit a big chunk of bank that is sticking out and frozen solid.

You would think you you would want your wheels titled in, toward the bank to guide you in and along the bank especially since I said there is a force pushing you away from it. However, since your wing is at the rear of the grader (especially the part sticking out taking more forces) the force is pushing at the tail end of the grader more than it is way up front where your wheels are.

Think if you hit a hard chunk of ice with your wheels straight, your tail-end swings out and obvious your front end in (typical seasaw...). 
If your front wheels are leaned into the bank, when your tail-end swings out, your front-end is going to swing in a lot more and a lot easier (think of a vehicle with rear-wheel steering).
*If you titlt your wheels the opposite direction of the windrow when you are plowing with a wing and pushing hard into a bank, the wheel tilt will help you guide the grader straight. It does this by keeping the tail-end of the grader into the bank.* If there is a force at the front of the grader pushing the front-end to the left, this pushes the rear end to the right (seasaw...). If the rear end is pushed to the right, where your wing is it helps to counter the force from the bank pushing your rear end out from where you are trying to push hard into. *Therefore, if you tilt your wheels in the opposite direction of the windrow, it helps track your grader straight.*

How do you prevent your front-end from tracking left? Well, you only use as much wheel titlt as you need. The tilt is only used to counter the force applied on the grader that would make you constantly have to steer to keep you alligned.

In no way am I the most experienced grader operator out there but that seems to be my trick...and most others I see. Maybe other operators have other oppinion? I will respect that and would *really* like to hear there explanation. Whatever can make me a better operator the better!

Thanks for reading.​


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## Craaaig

snowman4 as i said before* i'm staying neutral* and would just like to hear input from the guys that have grader experience, although it does make sense what you are saying


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## snowman4

Jt13speed;753630 said:


> Uh lets see here...wheels leaned in the direction he is windrowing, check!
> 
> maybe you dont know that thats somethin motorgraders can do, your front wheels can be leaned to either side.
> 
> FYI As known by any motorgrader operator, front wheels are to be leaned so the top of the tires point to the side in which you are sending the windrowed material to compensate for side-draft, aka to keep the machine from getting pushed sideways, even though theres always a point to which no matter how much you have them leaned if what you are pushin becomes to much or you find somethin solid under it...aint enough traction in the world gonna stop from pushin you off your line!


Staying neutral is fine. Never asked for a specific oppinion from you but someone had mentioned two experienced operators. I'd like to hear there take.

I would really like to see the above quoted person's oppinion on the situation. I would like to know if it remains the same. It seemed pretty cocky to me.


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## Jt13speed

Ok, geez i didnt mean to come off Cocky at all!  

I will start off by sayin I have NEVER plowed snow with a Motorgrader before, i was just applying my Knowledge of moving dirt to moving snow. MY BAD i guess! Now Im by NO means saying I am as experienced as a guy whos been an operator for any length of time, because honestly anything more than 3 months is more than what i have. 

Alittle background to support myself...As of December i got my Associates degree in Heavy Construction Equipment Technology, Operator Emphasis from Penn College of Technology. Seem as though the economy sucks right now im toughin out for till next spring and Getting my Bachelors degree in Business Management from here also. 

I spent this past summer taking my Machine Operation courses, and Motorgrader was one of the objectives that I must say I thoroughly enjoyed and became pretty good at it, when i graduate that is the Job I am going to look for first! Ok so everything myself and my 25 classmates were taught when operating a grader is exactly what I said, wheels get leaned in the direction that you are sending your material, apparently snow is a whole different idea and I apologize of thinking otherwise. 

Didnt mean to step on your toes, im here to learn just like everyone else!


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## fisher guy

Hey JT13 i just thought maybe u should know a grader is one of the hardest machines to master. It goes in the same bag as a crane operator to lesser degree of course but same boat. Most companies look at a grader operator and expect perfection. 

I don't now how things go in the north but in Florida they're treated like royalty. Most of them actually are allowed to bring on there own crew and are given company trucks. They usually make the most pay on the job site below a foremen there responsibilities are enormous. So don't think there gonna hire u as a grader OP. off hand and train u on site. 

Most companies look at on site experience 99.7% of the time, they could care less about schools or degrees. I can say this because i was in the same boat as u. I went to a heavy equipment school and thought the same thing the day i started i was handed a shovel and told "everything u learned in that school forget it, you'll work your way up just like the rest of us"eventually i learned to master the all mighty shovel and then that's when they let me jump on equipment from time to time after 4 years of jumping around they finally looked at me as an operator.

They gave me a grader and let me do some sub grades on roads and ill admit it was no picnic, but I learned a lot. i can hold my own on a grader finishing rock now, but by no means consider myself a master finish grader man so remember it takes years and don't expect to get right in it. if u do they're probably setting u up to fail. Sorry for the rant but i just thought maybe u should know before u start asking for grader guy position and they start laughing. Also i just wanna say this a 30 year grader veteran told me this "all it takes is to be a 1/4" off and u can loose ur job quicker then [email protected]"


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## Jt13speed

I know what your talkin about, have had many conversations with Big and small companies that like you said, "well the best way to learn is to be on the ground crew and than you can make your way into the operators seat", which honestly ive been on a few trips to tour actual job sites for a day and im not sure i would want to be in a peice of equipment right away. Holy craziness!! So I dont really expect to get thrown right into the mix, im not that nieve...yet I am confident(not cocky) enough that i could handle it IF it were to happen. 

But on the other foot, i personally have 2 classmates that were offered Grader jobs right out of school, down in Virginia. One kid i took operations with over the summer...hes working right now down there, and the other one is one of my closest friends and he took operations this past fall. My friend, has been offered to fill the spot of a retiring grader operator this spring, he will be on the guy's ground crew up to the day hes done, then my buddy gets it and the company sounds excited because they say its getting harder to find people who are willing to take on that position. I was standing next to my friend when he was talking to the head forman, he had come to our school's job fair...this guy was instantly excited when my buddy mentioned how much he loved running motorgrader, instantly took down his information and actually paid for him to go to virginia and see the site and meet some guys down there.

I know degrees dont mean sheeeet out there in this field, the few reason im getting my bachelors degree (i could have been done in december with just my associates but aint no work in december!) is to stave off some time to maybe give the economy a chance to come around ( ya i know its a long shot but hey a year is a year, you never know what might happen) AND ive had ideas of maybe someday trying to have my own company, or make my way up in the ranks, so having a business degree would help out there.


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## WingPlow

and so goes the debate.....

i've looked at that picture so much its nearly tattooed in my brain, \
heres what i see...the wing is actually mid-mounted, not rear mounted, also i really cant see where you guys think hes turning to the left ???...looks to me like hes going down a straight road

and heres my opinon and yes i know what they say about them.....i've got almost 25 years behind a grader steering wheel and if it were me running it, that pic would look the same way


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## dlnimsy

I have owned and operated two older strait framed graders.One Cat and one Wabco.I have little to no dirt experience only snow experience. I had a 12ft funnel plow on both with a 13ft wing. When pushing a heavy snow load with both plows i always leaned my wheels into the banking or else the front of the grader would be pushed back to the left. While pushing back bankings with only the wing i would find that when pushing back bankings wheel lean or not if tying to cut too much the back of the machine would move to the left.(i learned to do two passes. lol). I'm no expert but my time in the seat taught me to lean the wheels. Oh, before i bought my first one i had never set foot in one before, just aways wanted to try it. I learned by following and watching other machines on the road working.


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## snowman4

WingPlow;754694 said:


> and so goes the debate.....
> 
> i've looked at that picture so much its nearly tattooed in my brain, \
> heres what i see...the wing is actually mid-mounted, not rear mounted, also i really cant see where you guys think hes turning to the left ???...looks to me like hes going down a straight road
> 
> and heres my opinon and yes i know what they say about them.....i've got almost 25 years behind a grader steering wheel and if it were me running it, that pic would look the same way


By rear all I meant is that it was to the rear of the fulcrum. Any focres applied to the wing were going to be distributed to the rear-half of the grader having an effect on the rear end of it.

He is plowing straight down a straight road but does it not appear that his wheels are also turned left a bit?



dlnimsy;754930 said:


> I have owned and operated two older strait framed graders.One Cat and one Wabco.I have little to no dirt experience only snow experience. I had a 12ft funnel plow on both with a 13ft wing. When pushing a heavy snow load with both plows i always leaned my wheels into the banking or else the front of the grader would be pushed back to the left. While pushing back bankings with only the wing i would find that when pushing back bankings wheel lean or not if tying to cut too much the back of the machine would move to the left.(i learned to do two passes. lol). I'm no expert but my time in the seat taught me to lean the wheels. Oh, before i bought my first one i had never set foot in one before, just aways wanted to try it. I learned by following and watching other machines on the road working.


I would imagine that the plow on the front of the grader would apply a force to the front of the grader pushing it left if you are pushing snow right. This would explain why when you use just the wing you tilt your wheels to the left.

We don't have front plows on our graders. Just moldboards and wings and as far as I remember my wheels seem to get titled left. I'll have to pay attention next time I'm in the cab. Should be soon, storm on the way for Ottawa for tomorrow.

Here is a pic of a grader, wheels titled the way I say they should be.

Also, I noticed one of North dakota's pics. Seems like their Champion is going down the road in the first pic with the wheels leaned to the left. I believe it is post 47 or around there.


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## NorthDakota

not to stir the debate...in post 47...that was just after making a left turn....it helps the turn...that could be what is happening in top picture too to get around a car...maybe


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## snowman4

Although I wasn't in a grader for this past storm it does seem like the other graders here in Ottawa titlt there wheels the opposite direction of the wing.


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## dlnimsy

Grader on I-95 in Peabody Ma.


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## Grader4me

Hi Guy's, I'll give my 02 cents. Been on a grader for 25 years or so. Looking at the picture it's obvious that he has the wheels leaned to help prevent side drift. When you are plowing alot of snow sometimes it will push you to the left, but I'm talking a lot of snow. I've plowed with a Vee plow with the wing fully extended and into hard snowbanks and didn't have to lean the wheels.
In the picture I really don't think he needed to lean the wheels. I don't think it's helping him much, and if this is the way he plows all the time.. it could cause premature wear on the front tires.
Just my take..


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## snowman4

Video of a grader. Kind of goes with what I said. I think if the wheels were leaned in the opposite direction of the wing it would prevent the nose from going into the bank when the wing takes a lot of resistence from a snowbank.

Happy watching.


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## DareDog

lets see some more!!


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## WingPlow

here ya go....


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## plowking15

We run Komatsu equipment at our Highway department. A new loader and fairly new grader.Grader has front plow,bottom plow, scarifier and wing plow. You'd be amazed at where the grader can go. It has articulation,he does my camp roads on my route and turns around in the most of the same turn arounds I use. We have to keep the wheels chained on back of loader and grader,they are usless without them. Both machines functions are mostly electronic,if something goes and you can't operate it manually, you're screwed. The town did get extended warranties which is paying off on the grader. Grader has a lot of upkeep,last year I was there when the mechanic had to reshim the moldboard where it travels side to side on the turntable. plowking


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## J & B Lawncare

While you don't see graders around here (Lebanon County PA), a grader is the snow moving machine I remember from the big stroms of my childhood. Don't remember any plow trucks from than but when the snow came down it was always a grader that cleared the roads.

J & B Lawncare


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## PWB

First a little background. Put about 10,000 hours on a '92 Champion 720 (articulated)since '93 at work. Front mount one way plow and front mount wing. Also have a straight frame '96 740 in the shop (front mount wing), and an '08 Volvo (one way plow and rear mount wing). Municipal garage. We plow all our gravel roads with graders.
Use a 1960 562 Champion at home for my own snow and some weekend work in the summer.

Almost always wind up with the wheels tilted towards the load (ie top of wheel to the right )when pushing snow. Only way to keep the front end from sliding left against the load. Sometimes use the articulation to help when it's really bad. Steer the machine as much with the articulation as with the wheel in slippery conditions. Wound up in the ditch more than once with the straight frame '96 because the front end was pushing all over the place. 
In short, I'd have been set up the same way he was in that situation.

I'll see if I can find a picture or two of our equipment.
BTW, I found this thread on a search looking for info on al old wabco grader that's for sale in a local auction next week..


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## cubanb343

I would imagine it's different in every single situation. Depends how much snow or dirt, how heavy the snow or dirt, how slippery the surface, etc. That's why graders are so fun. Constant little bumps on the levers trying to find the perfect balance


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## JohnnyRoyale

My uncle introduced me to an older grader owner operator when I first started out about 15 years ago and I used him to plow some roads in a huge shopping mall we fluked out and got in our 3rd or 4th year. 

Little did I know, he was known as one of-if the BEST grader operator in Ontario. All the huge paving companies had him go in and do final grade before he paved. Most of the time he worked without a labourer. 

He worked for me for a few years in the winter and I once asked him if he knew anyone with a blade to strip and re-grade a soccer field. He said he would do it. It was truly amazing to watch him at work. He eventually moved back to South America and we lost touch. 

The guy was in his 70's back then and didnt wear glasses when operating. He once told me he was commisioned by Volvo to be a part of the design team when they re-designed the Champion line. 

This is a guy who ran graders all of his life. He ate, slept and sh!t in that machine. Dont know if he's still alive, but watching him work always amazed me.


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## tojay22

good story. i always wanted to try running one of these.


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## PWB

Yup, The old guys are the best ones to learn from. The guy I replaced worked with me for 6 weeks before he retired. I'd only ever been in a grader long enough to drive it on or off a truck (ex trucker). He'd been running one for 45 years at that point. That and a week at school in Milton (Sheridan college) about 6 months later both taught me a lot. THe instructor at the school claimed he could open a beer can with the blade and not damage it...........

The other thing that schooled me (other than time in the seat) was driving OLD equipment. You sure learn what the limits are when you're in an old mechanical machine (eg wabco or cat) and try to make it do things it doesn't want to do, at least if you don't want broken wrists!


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## JohnnyRoyale

PWB;1036188 said:


> Yup, The old guys are the best ones to learn from. The guy I replaced worked with me for 6 weeks before he retired. I'd only ever been in a grader long enough to drive it on or off a truck (ex trucker). He'd been running one for 45 years at that point. That and a week at school in Milton (Sheridan college) about 6 months later both taught me a lot. THe instructor at the school claimed he could open a beer can with the blade and not damage it...........
> 
> The other thing that schooled me (other than time in the seat) was driving OLD equipment. You sure learn what the limits are when you're in an old mechanical machine (eg wabco or cat) and try to make it do things it doesn't want to do, at least if you don't want broken wrists!


Do you remember his name?. Could be the same guy were talking about.


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## fireball

I think it was Jose


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## snowman4

PWB;1036079 said:


> First a little background. Put about 10,000 hours on a '92 Champion 720 (articulated)since '93 at work. Front mount one way plow and front mount wing. Also have a straight frame '96 740 in the shop (front mount wing), and an '08 Volvo (one way plow and rear mount wing). Municipal garage. We plow all our gravel roads with graders.
> Use a 1960 562 Champion at home for my own snow and some weekend work in the summer.
> 
> Almost always wind up with the wheels tilted towards the load (ie top of wheel to the right )when pushing snow. Only way to keep the front end from sliding left against the load. Sometimes use the articulation to help when it's really bad. Steer the machine as much with the articulation as with the wheel in slippery conditions. Wound up in the ditch more than once with the straight frame '96 because the front end was pushing all over the place.
> In short, I'd have been set up the same way he was in that situation.
> 
> I'll see if I can find a picture or two of our equipment.
> BTW, I found this thread on a search looking for info on al old wabco grader that's for sale in a local auction next week..


That's because the load was on the front of your machine.

Now imagine the load was on the back-end of your machine? What would be swinging out? The front or the tail?


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## PWB

JohnnyRoyale;1036203 said:


> Do you remember his name?. Could be the same guy were talking about.


Won't be the same guy, I'm 3 hours west (London/windsor corridor)


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## PWB

snowman4;1036269 said:


> That's because the load was on the front of your machine.
> 
> Now imagine the load was on the back-end of your machine? What would be swinging out? The front or the tail?[/QUOTE
> Went back to look at the picture, I'll admit I'm not used to plowing without a front plow. Sometimes run all three blades when it's icy, carbide teeth on the moldboard to cut.
> 
> The only times I remember the back end being pushed out on me involved contact with solid objects, not snow/ice.
> 2 winters ago I clipped a tree stump hidden under snow (not a road I usually do) in a NEW volvo with a rear mount Craig wing (all hydraulic, no cables). I was wound in high gear, had the wing fully extended. Those suckers have no give, and it DID through teh back of the machine left. As a matter of fact, it hit so hard it broke the bellhousing on teh back of the motor. Grader went back to Goderich for repair.
> Another incident about 10 years earlier in the 720, front mount wing on cables. Hit a low concrete endwall on a box culvert, grader didn't turn when I asked, my fault, tired, end of day, etc. same deal, threw the back of the grader left. Normal problem on anything we have is the other way around, the front end wants to slide out, even when using eth moldboard. THere's a lot more weight on the back, and the front tends to get light if there's any pressure on the moldboard. Usually is because we're cutting ice....
> THere's a lot more freeze/thaw here than Ottawa where it stays cold!


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## snowman4

Yes when cutting ice we have the same problem - especially when front tires are up off the ground!

My argument is not about leaning the wheels. All I am saying is you often see guys plowing a straight road with a wing on the back of the grader and they have the wheels all the way tilted inwards.

If you do that while pushing up against a snow bank the tail end of the grader is going to be out and the front end in. The wing will basically be rubbing down the bank lengthwise if you know what I mean.


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## dieselguy5245

Heres a quick vid of a grader plowing......sorry its sideways


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## miniwarehousing

Ok...All the videos of graders I see are clearing roads. What about tricky lots with in's and out's and only specific areas to deposit snow?
I started a thread ( http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?p=1221597#post1221597 ) and there is a photo of our site. We have about 5 good places that we can pile snow.
Current contractor has 2 large loaders with some modified pushers to get the snow down to the "pile" areas. See photo below 








We are interested in buying our own machine and do the snow removal ourselves. Leon has suggested a grader with a box pusher on the front.
I don't think a grader is a good suggestion (NEWBIE ALERT) and have been reading up to educate myself on this.
So....Since this thread has all the grader experts chiming in, can someone post their opinion on Grader or loader for our site above?


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## fireboy5722

the pics on the first page of the champion and the john deere were taking at the Pennsylvania college of Technology training site for heavy equipment operators. we still use both of them.


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## VolvoL60F

Heres my Public Works Department Champion 710A.


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## KMBertog

those are some nice graders!


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## pohouse

The city paired me up with a grader to clear neighborhoods last storm. I curbed behind him. Very, very good operator. I was impressed at how well graders can cleanup and plow around corners using the articulated steering. He even did a few culdasacs.


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## VolvoL60F

Found this monster sitting at my local gas station.


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## Stanc30

SnowMan4, I understand what you are saying throughout this thread, being an operator... but I think after reading the thread that it may be understood easier with a little more clarification. I hope this helps someone. First, is to understand that the load capacity of any grader is exceeded under any condition that causes it to break traction whether it be at the front and or the rear of its frame first. Second, that the traction of the grader can be increased by the same means, (surface, weight, tire tread or chains), at the front as well as the rear except one and that is tire tilt. 

Tire tilt along with the steering tire leverage against the load, exerted on the grader frame at any given point is meant to provide greater resistance than the forces that would cause a break in traction at the front and or rear. Therefore when moving a (windrow) load on the blade from left front to right rear I always tilt the top of the front tires to the right providing more traction because of the left-hand load. Some people think this is almost equal loading but in fact it takes more force to set material in motion than to deposit it off the end of the mow board, without a blockage of course. When moving a (windrow) load on the mow board on the right-hand side over to the right a few more feet I always tilt the top of the front tires to the left providing more traction because of the right-hand load. 

Another way of stating this is that in a perfect condition the load on the left-hand side and the right-hand side of the grader frame would be equal and the tire tilt wouldn’t have a traction advantage. Since equal is very rare, if ever, the tire tilt should be the top of the front tires tilted away from the side of the grader with the greatest load. And in the amount needed to provide a greater resistance than the load itself would be to traction loss. The greatest factor on the amount of tilt needed, in my experience, is by the amount of leverage gain or loss by where the load is exerted on the frame. Example; front mounted wing will require more front tilt away from the load than a rear mounted wing under the exact conditions because of leverage gain or loss.
With all that being said there is a time when I do the opposite because of a greater advantage. If I am doing a cull-t-sac I will tilt my wheels towards the load, (the center of the turn), so that I may turn a tighter radius and either step the mow board down in increments, float, or pressure it. What ever will allow me to perform, maintain traction, and easily make the turn.


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## snowman4

And I guess that's why none of our hundred some graders don't have chains on their wheels including those that do country roads and hills. 

We also use graders here to plow all cul de sacs (mind you a loader always comes by afterwards for clean-up) but with graders that don't articulate.


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## IC-Smoke

interesting....


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## jegolopolli

IC-Smoke;1452236 said:


> interesting....


Pretty nice of them, they dont clear the end of driveways around here.


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## jegolopolli

This is some cool video of a grader at work from last year.


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA

jegolopolli;1452470 said:


> This is some cool video of a grader at work from last year.


Watched that video last year, efficiency at it's finest


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## jegolopolli

NICHOLS LANDSCA;1452477 said:


> Watched that video last year, efficiency at it's finest


Yeah I didnt really understand what the were doing. Maybe because they have never moved that much before?


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## avfd8

Alburgs former 1953 Austin Western


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## avfd8

Alburgs current grader. They haven't put the wing or plow on this year due to the mild winter.


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## mercer_me

I have done quite a bit of grading with a 1964 CAT 120 but, I have never plowed with it. I will try to get some pictures of it next weak.


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## S-205

Saw a Volvo grader today!


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## Winter Land Man

The wing isn't on this winter... not yet, at least. There hasn't been much to bench. Mostly 1-3 inch snowfalls, plus a lot of freezing rain & sleet events. They use the front plow (a Viking power-angle) on one of the trucks. The Volvo was getting some things done to it during its off time.


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## Winter Land Man

avfd8;1454329 said:


> Alburgs current grader. They haven't put the wing or plow on this year due to the mild winter.


Looks good... no wing on Newport's Volvo this year either, it's behind the building sitting. They'll put it on when we have something to really bench back, the trucks can handle that for now. Usually they would of used the wing by now.


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## GMD1984

i'v always wanted a grader!!!!!!!!


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## I HATE RUST

Volvo pulling out a little kitty cat :laughing:


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## mercer_me

This is the 1970 CAT 120 grader I run. It's a pretty nice machine, we just did a lot of work to it. It used to have a plow and wing when Maine DOT owned it, it doesn't have any of that on it now though.


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## Landcare - Mont

Found this in the files - 1971 Cat 120


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## JoeCool

mercer_me;1469052 said:


> This is the 1970 CAT 120 grader I run. It's a pretty nice machine, we just did a lot of work to it. It used to have a plow and wing when Maine DOT owned it, it doesn't have any of that on it now though.


Sweet, I ran a 73 in the mid 80's when I was 22. It had the higher hp 3306 and an external ROPS so the other operators hated it for visibility. I learned on it so found no issue and was very tight and lower hours. I still see the machine occasionally, but they cut down the mouldboard to fit between forms.


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## Oshkosh

A photo of a Pa Turnpike grader waiting for auction a year ago.


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## CAT 245ME

An old 16G rolling back the snow.


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## snowman4

Yup. This is why you lean the wheels to the left with a wing for all you that told me I was wrong


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## JoeCool

snowman4;1469620 said:


> Yup. This is why you lean the wheels to the left with a wing for all you that told me I was wrong


Right... I mean correct... been so long I couldn't really remember but that little slide jogs the memory.


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## 4x4Farmer

snowman4;1469620 said:


> Yup. This is why you lean the wheels to the left with a wing for all you that told me I was wrong


You should have been there in person ( i was the one taking the video) That was a 2 mile stretch that blows in bad and he was getting thrown around just like that the whole 2 miles. That was taken last winter when we actually got some snow.


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## snowman4

Ya I know and the operator was doing it right...he had his wheels leaning away from the bank. Had he had them leaning towards the front end would of kissed the snow bank each time and he'd have to back up and straighten out! (ok maybe im exaggerating a little) but this operator was doing it right on and thats why the machine recovered nicely each time....


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## snopushin ford

hey are there any of you guys run a grader for a paving company? When we start back up this year i will throw some pics up. I currently operate a cat 140M or a 12H.


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