# Putting equipment responsibility on Operator



## PhilCat

As owner, here's the first thing you hear hiring someone, 'Yea I know how to run a cat'.

When in fact at best, they only ever ran one with a bucket in the dirt.

Now as we all know,
running angle plows, and angle brooms, it needs to be verified when set at angle that the equipment is squarely sitting on the ground.

This doesn't just happen by default.
If not paying attention to details, you end up with a junk broom that is worn 3 inches shorter on one end in less than 40 hours use.

No second season for this broom.
Same with angle plow, and both items in the Bobcat line.

You can preach all you want watching operator do just the opposite, not listening or cares less.

So I've come to the conclusion, make them pay the $500 up front. 
Maybe they get a clue when check is minus the amount to make the repairs.


I just completed major makeover on the broom twice now.
First it was concrete building that was in the way bending the 3/8" steel frame on motor side so far out, the broom fell out of the drive.

Bobcat said it was totaled, and buy another one we have used for $4500.
But needs $400 in new broom sections.

I took it back to the shop, and made all the repairs to better than new condition. 3 nights of bending, welding, grinding, painting, it was back on the job.

This has been fully photographed at every detail of repair if needed.

So, how do some of you make, and get the point across to the damage they do when they care less.

Thanks..


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## RichG53

Show them some pictures (Of previous damage) and explain that there is no reason for this to happen..
Unless there was a just cause (reason it happen)..

I don't think any one will agree to up front money for damages...

I know I won't...


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## PhilCat

RichG53;1104510 said:


> I don't think any one will agree to up front money for damages...
> I know I won't...


Right, but the threat it will be taken from check will be the new line of defense.
Plus view all repair images for no reason.

There's no such thing as accident, unless you are unconscious from hitting your face into the glass door from hitting curb square on.

I came across operator that did one similar, the glass was hanging out of the door frame, face all bloody, and he didn't have a clue it happened.
He had plowed the lot for ten years and knew the curb island was there.

He didn't take pre cautions to back drag the Island curbing in the deep snow and ran full bore into it.
A step that only takes seconds to mark out ahead of time with bucket clearing the border.


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## IMAGE

the legality of it is you can't charge an employee for damage they cause. Say they bang up a company truck, you cant even charge them for the deductible. (unless you could maybe prove them to be drunk or high, then I'm not sure)

It would deffinately not fly to charge them for a piece of equipment wearing out prematurely because they suck as an operator. You could maybe even be sued by the state or county for trying to charge them.


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## PhilCat

IMAGE;1104538 said:


> the legality of it is you can't charge an employee for damage they cause.


Right, and is why the term used is threat.
If you were told tomorrow, that all employees are going to be charged, regardless the amount, would this make you take a mental notice and wonder all night and maybe use just the slightest bit of the remaining 2 brain cells left, that tonight, we'll be a little more careful.

The options of destruction are incredible.
Millions worth of new cars on each block, you could side swipe them all and be the next video hero on Cops.

Handing over the controls is a huge mind ---k.
$500 bucks is spit compared to beer funds used.

Anyway, 
One has to rant once in a while.
Cheers


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## Reliable Snow and Ice

PhilCat;1104500 said:


> As owner, here's the first thing you hear hiring someone, 'Yea I know how to run a cat'.
> 
> When in fact at best, they only ever ran one with a bucket in the dirt.
> 
> Now as we all know,
> running angle plows, and angle brooms, it needs to be verified when set at angle that the equipment is squarely sitting on the ground.
> 
> This doesn't just happen by default.
> If not paying attention to details, you end up with a junk broom that is worn 3 inches shorter on one end in less than 40 hours use.
> 
> No second season for this broom.
> Same with angle plow, and both items in the Bobcat line.
> 
> You can preach all you want watching operator do just the opposite, not listening or cares less.
> 
> So I've come to the conclusion, make them pay the $500 up front.
> Maybe they get a clue when check is minus the amount to make the repairs.
> 
> I just completed major makeover on the broom twice now.
> First it was concrete building that was in the way bending the 3/8" steel frame on motor side so far out, the broom fell out of the drive.
> 
> Bobcat said it was totaled, and buy another one we have used for $4500.
> But needs $400 in new broom sections.
> 
> I took it back to the shop, and made all the repairs to better than new condition. 3 nights of bending, welding, grinding, painting, it was back on the job.
> 
> This has been fully photographed at every detail of repair if needed.
> 
> So, how do some of you make, and get the point across to the damage they do when they care less.
> 
> Thanks..


what ever happened to the good old test drive... oh you say you can operate this piece of equipment??? well let's go and find out.... 1 minute into there test you should know if there full of **** or can do the job well


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## snowplowpro

IF YOU PUT AN AD IN PAPER OR WHEN U ASK FOR HELP OR SOMETHING PUT

( EXAMPLE)( EQUIPMENT OPERATOR FOR SNOWPLOWING WITH HEAVY MACHINERY 5+ YEARS EXPERIENCE WANTED ) OR EXPERIENCE A MUST 

IM SURE THERE IS PLENTY OF EXPERIENCED EQUIPMENT OPERATORS OUT THERE LOOKING TO MAKE SOME EXTRA MONEY OR LOOKING FOR WORK.payup


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## Mdwstsnow512

FIRE THEM

Get Better Guys, there is a million out there. 


a good operator will more than pay for himself, a cheap sh1tty one will cost you twice as much in the long run, plus headaches


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## R.J.S. SNOWPLOW

*Mark the lot*

Have you ever thought about driveway markers if they could see a 4 foot stick sticking out of the ground they wouldnt hit anything in the snow


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## Brian Young

Illegal or not, I had every one using my equipment sign in their contract, if there is damage as a result of misuse or abuse they are responsible for any repairs or replacement. Things happen but I'm sick of replacing and repairing broken things. I'm even thinking of a bonus plan for good work (as if pay wasn't enough). Next week all my skid steer guys are going to show me what they can do.


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## RichG53

Take into consideration if the person(s) have been working long hours there Is a Fatigue factor to thing about..

People get tiered response and judgement are(get) impaired .....No different than an OWI...


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## Reliable Snow and Ice

Brian Young;1105440 said:


> Illegal or not, I had every one using my equipment sign in their contract, if there is damage as a result of misuse or abuse they are responsible for any repairs or replacement. Things happen but I'm sick of replacing and repairing broken things. I'm even thinking of a bonus plan for good work (as if pay wasn't enough). Next week all my skid steer guys are going to show me what they can do.


not a bad idea but what would be better than pay... maybe a date with a really really hot chick that you set up and that they had a chance in hell to go out with....:waving::waving:


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## grasskeepers

some times the operator suucks because the teachers sucks


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## KBTConst

If they can'do the job right get someone that can it's that simple! Don't put an ad in the paper you just get some joe-blow that thinks he knows everything that's what my father in law use to do and with me being the foreman I had to suffer with stupid people. That's why I started my own company. Go to the unemployment office put in a request for workers there is plenty of people looking for work that is layed off then you get someone that has the brains to run equipment.


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## 2COR517

PhilCat;1104500 said:


> As owner, here's the first thing you hear hiring someone, 'Yea I know how to run a cat'.
> 
> When in fact at best, they only ever ran one with a bucket in the dirt.
> 
> Now as we all know,
> running angle plows, and angle brooms, it needs to be verified when set at angle that the equipment is squarely sitting on the ground.
> 
> This doesn't just happen by default.
> If not paying attention to details, you end up with a junk broom that is worn 3 inches shorter on one end in less than 40 hours use.
> 
> No second season for this broom.
> Same with angle plow, and both items in the Bobcat line.
> 
> You can preach all you want watching operator do just the opposite, not listening or cares less.
> 
> So I've come to the conclusion, make them pay the $500 up front.
> Maybe they get a clue when check is minus the amount to make the repairs.
> 
> I just completed major makeover on the broom twice now.
> First it was concrete building that was in the way bending the 3/8" steel frame on motor side so far out, the broom fell out of the drive.
> 
> Bobcat said it was totaled, and buy another one we have used for $4500.
> But needs $400 in new broom sections.
> 
> I took it back to the shop, and made all the repairs to better than new condition. 3 nights of bending, welding, grinding, painting, it was back on the job.
> 
> This has been fully photographed at every detail of repair if needed.
> 
> So, how do some of you make, and get the point across to the damage they do when they care less.
> 
> Thanks..





PhilCat;1104532 said:


> Right, but the threat it will be taken from check will be the new line of defense.
> Plus view all repair images for no reason.
> 
> There's no such thing as accident, unless you are unconscious from hitting your face into the glass door from hitting curb square on.
> 
> I came across operator that did one similar, the glass was hanging out of the door frame, face all bloody, and he didn't have a clue it happened.
> He had plowed the lot for ten years and knew the curb island was there.
> 
> He didn't take pre cautions to back drag the Island curbing in the deep snow and ran full bore into it.
> A step that only takes seconds to mark out ahead of time with bucket clearing the border.


You sound like a great guy to work for. Maybe that's part of the problem.

Or, you hire the cheapest help you can get. There's an old expression, you get what you pay for.

While it is not legal to charge hourly employees for damage, it IS legal to give them a bonus if they don't break anything. You could do per storm, monthly, or end of the season.

And, accidents do happen. Especially when the boss is always saying go faster.


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## CGM Inc.

grasskeepers;1129465 said:


> some times the operator suucks because the teachers sucks


A blind leading a blind!
Training is a big issue for sure!
But we also have Guys that are in the biz for many years and should know better!
I'm sometimes baffled how little they know about equipment!

Had a Guy putting diesel in a gas truck......not by accident he thought it was a diesel truck. I just left when he told me!
Can't you hear the difference in engine noise? Does it need glowing to start at a cold day? Is there a glow light on the dash? MORONS!
You call when you have no paper to whipe your a$$ but you don't call when you are about to put the wrong gas in a truck.

The other way around it would have been a fatal engine failure this way it was just some sucking out.


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## Reliable Snow and Ice

Cedar Grounds;1129600 said:


> A blind leading a blind!
> Training is a big issue for sure!
> But we also have Guys that are in the biz for many years and should know better!
> I'm sometimes baffled how little they know about equipment!
> 
> Had a Guy putting diesel in a gas truck......not by accident he thought it was a diesel truck. I just left when he told me!
> Can't you hear the difference in engine noise? Does it need glowing to start at a cold day? Is there a glow light on the dash? MORONS!
> You call when you have no paper to whipe your a$$ but you don't call when you are about to put the wrong gas in a truck.
> 
> The other way around it would have been a fatal engine failure this way it was just some sucking out.


ok first off :laughing: please tell me you fired that guy..... and the only thing I can say 
no matter how hard you try you alone can not fix stupid.....:laughing::laughing:


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## CGM Inc.

Reliable Snow and Ice;1129622 said:


> ok first off :laughing: please tell me you fired that guy..... and the only thing I can say
> no matter how hard you try you alone can not fix stupid.....:laughing::laughing:


He's still working here.....he is a good guy with a licence but that was a bold move. At least he appologized. The whole crew was walking around like dogs with their tails cut off. They knew I was pi$$ed!


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## Reliable Snow and Ice

Cedar Grounds;1129626 said:


> He's still working here.....he is a good guy with a licence but that was a bold move. At least he appologized. The whole crew was walking around like dogs with their tails cut off. They knew I was pi$$ed!


ask him why a diesel engine need's glow plugs?? see what he say's....

stupid answer would be well doesnt the fuel need light to see where it is going?:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## NorthernSvc's

the cost is yours and yours alone, your opening yourself up to liability. don't be cheap, if they suck fire them hire a bettter worker, that will get the point across to your other employees that you will not tolerate negligence. as far as what you said about accidents, i have to disagree with you, guys work weird hours throw off there sleep cycle, you need to plan on crap happening, it should be budgeted when your pricing your contracts. i always throw in 5% extra just as a gimme, someting is gonna happen nature of the work we do... get used to it...if your on the line so close that a little damage to your equipment is throwing you in the red than you obivously are not charging enough, raise your prices...


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## Brian Young

grasskeepers;1129465 said:


> some times the operator suucks because the teachers sucks


This is very true. However, perfect example of someone who doesn't or didn't get it.......My one guy in our salt truck is doing one of our new lots and I told him you need to turn on the spinner control then turn on the big amber switch thats all lit up. He comes down and around the building and stops and says there's no salt coming out. "Did you turn on the conveyor"?, "Oh yeah I guess I didn't" No big deal cuz its the first time out. Then I tell him to just run East and West through the parking lot overlapping every 3-4 parking spots to make sure he is covering everything. The next thing I know hes running North and South doing circle's, missing a lot of areas cuz he is going over the same spots. Point is you have to babysit some people to they get the hang of it. Some people just dont get it right off the bat.


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## Reliable Snow and Ice

Brian Young;1129686 said:


> This is very true. However, perfect example of someone who doesn't or didn't get it.......My one guy in our salt truck is doing one of our new lots and I told him you need to turn on the spinner control then turn on the big amber switch thats all lit up. He comes down and around the building and stops and says there's no salt coming out. "Did you turn on the conveyor"?, "Oh yeah I guess I didn't" No big deal cuz its the first time out. Then I tell him to just run East and West through the parking lot overlapping every 3-4 parking spots to make sure he is covering everything. The next thing I know hes running North and South doing circle's, missing a lot of areas cuz he is going over the same spots. Point is you have to babysit some people to they get the hang of it. Some people just dont get it right off the bat.


if he doesnt know the difference between north south east west then fire him and tell him to back to the 1st grade


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## CGM Inc.

Reliable Snow and Ice;1129794 said:


> if he doesnt know the difference between north south east west then fire him and tell him to back to the 1st grade


you fire to fast!


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## Reliable Snow and Ice

Cedar Grounds;1129796 said:


> you fire to fast!


yeah maybe


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## basher

If they have your training, expereance, motivation, common sense, organizational skills, responsibility, time management ability, attention to detail, personal interaction skills and pay for equipment repairs, they are not going to be your employees very long. They are going to be your competition.


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## CGM Inc.

basher;1129970 said:


> If they have your training, expereance, motivation, common sense, organizational skills, responsibility, time management ability, attention to detail, personal interaction skills and pay for equipment repairs, they are not going to be your employees very long. They are going to be your competition.


 and wont work for the money we pay
common sense is all I ask for cutting Grass and plowing is no rocket since!


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## RichG53

I listen to all you whining !!!

I bet you all started out and never Damaged anything .......(Think about it)..

Experience is Learned ...You are not born with it....

The sooner you (learn) understand that the sooner you will have good employees...


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## wizardsr

2COR517;1129574 said:


> You sound like a great guy to work for. Maybe that's part of the problem.
> 
> Or, you hire the cheapest help you can get. There's an old expression, you get what you pay for.
> 
> While it is not legal to charge hourly employees for damage, it IS legal to give them a bonus if they don't break anything. You could do per storm, monthly, or end of the season.
> 
> And, accidents do happen. Especially when the boss is always saying go faster.


Best post in this thread. What the OP is trying to do is illegal, I've experienced this in MN, and they don't play nice when it comes to an employees wages. It is also not legal to make them sign a responsibility agreement AFTER they are hired, it has to be done at the time of hire.

We do exactly exactly as suggested above, the employees get a bonus at the end of the season if there are no preventable or negligent damages. So far so good, one guy didn't get his bonus, but he was also fired after the first storm. Another guy bent the guard on a spreader by backing into a snow pile; but after considering his overall performance throughout the season, the damage was chalked up to "shyt happens" and he got his full bonus. Bonus amounts very by employee, but average is $5/hour, paid at the end of the season, for every hour they worked.


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## roccon31

i see all the complaints here and it just leaves me with one question. how much are you paying your employees that mess up the equipment?

i CONSTANTLY keep my eye on the want ads and what not, and i see people that want to pay "Experienced" operators 8-12 dollars/hr. what do you think you are going to get for 8$/hr???? honestly?

as a former mechanic, triaxle driver, equipment operator, paver operator, landscaper, i can tell you that a GOOD well rounded employee who CARES ABOUT HIS JOB AND EQUIPMENT will not work for low wages, even now when things are tough. when i hire people to help me part time i pay them very well, and they treat me very well. the first couple guys i got "cheap" i had to babysit all day and ended up costing myself more money than they were worth.

at a former employer as a foreman, having to deal with guys that the boss found through "a guy at the bar lastnight" i have seen the morons you guys are speaking of, and im with you, some of them shouldnt be allowed to get out of bed by themselves in the morning.

and yes, ive screwwed up plenty of stuff at former employers. the first thing i do is call the boss and own up to it. the second thing i do is offer to pay for the damages for doing something stupid. the third thing i do is fix my screw ups by myself on my own time. ive never had a boss complain about that, and never once has a boss accepted any money from me. 

of course, these were good bosses who i respected and payed me well. the ones i didnt like i couldnt care less about thier equipment!


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## R.J.S. SNOWPLOW

no matter how much experience. a person has all ceo's train you how they want you to do it because its their way or the highway...and the job they give you depends on how much you are paying them 9 out of ten you get what you pay for..maybe you should train them soo you know they will do a good job or sell your EQUIPMENT and hire OWNER OPERATOR 'S but then you would pay more alot more


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## Reliable Snow and Ice

roccon31;1130752 said:


> i see all the complaints here and it just leaves me with one question. how much are you paying your employees that mess up the equipment?
> 
> i CONSTANTLY keep my eye on the want ads and what not, and i see people that want to pay "Experienced" operators 8-12 dollars/hr. what do you think you are going to get for 8$/hr???? honestly?
> 
> as a former mechanic, triaxle driver, equipment operator, paver operator, landscaper, i can tell you that a GOOD well rounded employee who CARES ABOUT HIS JOB AND EQUIPMENT will not work for low wages, even now when things are tough. when i hire people to help me part time i pay them very well, and they treat me very well. the first couple guys i got "cheap" i had to babysit all day and ended up costing myself more money than they were worth.
> 
> at a former employer as a foreman, having to deal with guys that the boss found through "a guy at the bar lastnight" i have seen the morons you guys are speaking of, and im with you, some of them shouldnt be allowed to get out of bed by themselves in the morning.
> 
> and yes, ive screwwed up plenty of stuff at former employers. the first thing i do is call the boss and own up to it. the second thing i do is offer to pay for the damages for doing something stupid. the third thing i do is fix my screw ups by myself on my own time. ive never had a boss complain about that, and never once has a boss accepted any money from me.
> 
> of course, these were good bosses who i respected and payed me well. the ones i didnt like i couldnt care less about thier equipment!


couldn't agree with you more... if common sense was sold at hardware store's the world would be a different place then what it is now.....
but then again some people can't even fix a good cup of coffee...


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