# What does your plow truck really cost you?



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

There's been a little discussion lately about costs of running plow trucks doesn't matter new or old. For myself I break the year down to 2 seasons,snow and landscape.Guys feel that they have to charge so much per hour to cover their truck cost ,which you should do.But sometimes you need to break it down even more as to the cost of that truck. In my case I plow around 25-35 times per season.But some guys might only plow 5-10 times per season or over 35 times. So lets work with if you have a payment theory. Lets say for ex. your payment is 500.00 a month.Your season runs about 5 months,so your cost of the truck is 2500.00 for the plow season .In my case 2500/25 =100.00 each time I go out ,and if I'm out for 10 hrs my hourly cost is 10.00 per hour for the truck payment.So guys who go out less their cost is more even if we all had the same payment.Of course you add your other costs .So I guess what I'm trying to get at is a guy can make the same amount of money at 40 an hr as the guy charging 100 an hr. So are they lowballers or price gougers? Yes ,no?


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## bradlewislawnca (Mar 2, 2011)

Ohh boy. You assume with that math that payment is all you have. I like the IRS model of .58 per mile. That being said it doesn't work plowing. But payments are for 6 years? The truck has salvage value. You should be taking the salvage value after the amount depreciated is taken into account. That being said my 2500 costs $35,000 I think. I hope it'll last 150,000 mile or 10 years and I hope there are no major repairs. So minimally I am looking at 15000 miles a year and plowing season is like at most 3000 miles. That would mean it's roughly 1600 to run my truck plowing... The IRS number is trying to calculate insurance depreciation and maintenance. But then again the only costs for a landscaper or other contractor that should matter is marginal costs. Because insurance should be on your truck plowing or not.

From that point of view you should look at gas costs and maintenance. Aaa has maintenance costs at .20 a mile and I get at best 12 miles a gallon so .30 a mile?

http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/silverado-2500hd/2011/tco.html?style=101305489

There is the Cost to really operate my truck. I guess it is $14 for 15kmi or .90 per mile in y1. At 3000 plowing that puts me at $2700. That number includes $5k for insurance and taxes which should not be considered in a marginal point of view. So I would use $9k for 15k. That would mean that per mile I am .60 per mile. That being said it'll cost me$1800 to plow with my truck. $1000 for liability insurance on all of my trucks and then labor. Not bad considering I do a lot more per truck than that...


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## downtoearthnh (Jan 16, 2009)

And while your looking at costs to plow, consider the cost of the plow itself and its maintenance, which might add another 10% on to the total costs.


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## BORIS (Oct 22, 2008)

If you pay cash for all of it you will be farther ahead in the end


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## bradlewislawnca (Mar 2, 2011)

Boris,

Wrong. In all biz decisions you have to consider wacc( weighted average cost of capital). If you don't and you invest into the biz you fail to gain a return on investment when you don't consider how much you should get in return for the money you invest. That being said, a $5000 investment into a plow should either return you x dollars extra on top of the $5k over the life of the plow because you gave up the option to put that money in the stock market or the (or sometimes nothing). Just because you pay cash does not make your costs lower. There is always opportunity cost.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

grandview;1338709 said:


> There's been a little discussion lately about costs of running plow trucks doesn't matter new or old. For myself I break the year down to 2 seasons,snow and landscape.Guys feel that they have to charge so much per hour to cover their truck cost ,which you should do.But sometimes you need to break it down even more as to the cost of that truck. In my case I plow around 25-35 times per season.But some guys might only plow 5-10 times per season or over 35 times. So lets work with if you have a payment theory. Lets say for ex. your payment is 500.00 a month.Your season runs about 5 months,so your cost of the truck is 2500.00 for the plow season .In my case 2500/25 =100.00 each time I go out ,and if I'm out for 10 hrs my hourly cost is 10.00 per hour for the truck payment.So guys who go out less their cost is more even if we all had the same payment.*Of course you add your other costs* .So I guess what I'm trying to get at is a guy can make the same amount of money at 40 an hr as the guy charging 100 an hr. So are they lowballers or price gougers? Yes ,no?


I know what you saying, I'm just using that as an ex. As said,I use mine for landscaping to ,so the cost is spread over the year. Is your GL only for plowing or the whole year?


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## bradlewislawnca (Mar 2, 2011)

Plowing endorsement. Assuming my level. Whole policy is much higher.


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## bradlewislawnca (Mar 2, 2011)

I realize I might have gone on a tangent. I like finance.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

In my nustshell I was just saying some guys want to put all their expenses in a short period of time .And if they are a per push it makes their rate even higher.Some forget they use it as a daily driver and dump personal time into also.


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## JCByrd24 (Oct 19, 2005)

You are correct that a guy can make the same amount of money charging $40/hr vs $100 and no they are not all low ballers and price gougers. If they are legitimately insured for the service they're providing, and the clients are comfortable with their service and confident in their ability to provide that service they are fine. The thing is that no one really determines what they charge at the end of the day, the market does. Someone may so I won't work for less than x...but ultimately that could leave them not working which is usually worse than working for a little bit less than x. So the challenge is to keep your operating expenses down so that you can get paid what the market will bear and still make money. As an extreme case, consider two guys plowing 10 residential drives per storm. The guy driving a brand new king ranch diesel with brand new vee plow cannot charge what he needs to cover the cost of his truck, because he won't get any business. The guy driving a 5 year old truck with straight blade will out bid him everytime. Or, maybe they both get 10 drives, and get paid $50 per drive, the guy with the older truck is the only one making money. Good business is balancing expenses with income, and if you make bad decisions by buying equipment that is too expensive, you will not be successful. On the flip side, if you don't invest properly in good enough equipment and are breaking down or leaving the customer unsatisfied, you will also not be successful.


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## BORIS (Oct 22, 2008)

If you pay $5000 cash for a plow and it does not snow or you get a loan for the $5000 and pay for the plow and it does not snow there is a difference in my book. I can assure you that the cash deal will be a better investment. Not that i know anything but i do know that it would be hard to make a payment with no cash flow if snow is all you depend on,


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

You missed his point Borris. Even with your example- Say it didnt snow and you financed the plow for 5k. You would still have the 5k cash in your bank-make the payments with that until it does snow. Using up your "cash" is often a bad idea.


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## BORIS (Oct 22, 2008)

What about the interest that you paid to the bank for the privilege to use there money? I think that if you have the cash for something in the bank that you need why would pay the bank money. It just seems stupid to me. I think you are maby missing my point but that is why we all run our operations differently. JCByrd24 is very correct and is kind of making my point.


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## alldayrj (Feb 28, 2010)

BORIS;1339039 said:


> What about the interest that you paid to the bank for the privilege to use there money? I think that if you have the cash for something in the bank that you need why would pay the bank money. It just seems stupid to me. I think you are maby missing my point but that is why we all run our operations differently. JCByrd24 is very correct and is kind of making my point.


because that 5k could also be earning you interest in the bank if you dont spend it up front. microeconomics 101 which sometimes doesnt work in the real world ex: today with terrible interest rates.

also, you can often get a period without interest in todays economy, which is when its helpful to still have tha cash in the bank when a nice sander pops up on craigslist for 1500 cash


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

Ill have to ask my mom.


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## buildinon (Oct 6, 2011)

In my experience, as I use some trucks for just plowing and some for year round construction / plowing I break it down in a manner like the following. 

cost of unit per hour
cost to replace per hour
insurance per hour
cost of maintainence per hour
cost of fuel per hour

There are a few smaller things I add in, but that is the basics. Now there are 2080 working hours per year when breaking it down 40 hr per week @ 52 weeks. The year round vehicles I spread out their cost over that. The snow only units I break down by my avg yearly hours used to predict for the next season. As well I ushually add a percentage due to rising costs. It varies year to year depending. 
When I get paid for the work I do on either year round work or seasonal, I put the money into diffrent accts, that are designated for their own purposes.

Truck Replacement / Maintainence Acct
Insurance Acct
Fuel (I have a fuel acct because I use a fleet vehicle gas card and all records are maintained that way)
Payroll

Now I know this won't work for everyone, as some just don't have the liquid funds to be able to be able to place money and leave it in one place until needed. But I made it work for me. By doing this when the time comes I ushually pay cash for the new equipment, wheter new or used, and am able to get a better deal and don't have to worry about payments. As well with having the money there, I don't have to scramble around worrying about how I am going to pay for something when an unexpected cost comes up.


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## KBTConst (Oct 25, 2009)

Another great thread from GV!


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## second income (Sep 19, 2010)

In a nut shell you need to be aware of your costs so you aren,t getting beat but you should never be charging much less than the market rate in your service area. We are business to make PROFITS for the rainy days not merely exist


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## second income (Sep 19, 2010)

Sorry for the typos in the last post my fingers are too big for this damn Blackberry


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## second income (Sep 19, 2010)

In a nut shell you need to be aware of your costs so you aren,t getting beat but you should never be charging much less than the market rate in your service area. We are business to make PROFITS for the rainy days not merely exist


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## 496 BB (Feb 11, 2010)

I just charge enough to get a case of beer and an 8 ball for the weekend


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

second income;1339265 said:


> In a nut shell you need to be aware of your costs so you aren,t getting beat but you should never be charging much less than the market rate in your service area. We are business to make PROFITS for the rainy days not merely exist


If your talking to me. I do know costs and in my area I can get guys to plow all day long for 30.00 an hr.


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## Greenery (Jun 23, 2007)

So are you exploiting the dumb! As I read in another thread, when you pay your subs so low they figure out they can get their own work for $40 per hour which is much better than your $30. Then you have just created one more fool that's going to run around bidding against you at $40 per hour numbers. At least give your subs $60 per to keep them happy and hopefully prevent yet another low bidder from bidding on your properties.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

And again every area has its own rate. you try and come in at over a 100 and hr ,you'll be sitting home watching cartoons all day.


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## Greenery (Jun 23, 2007)

Well I didn't say anything about $100 per hour. But I'm sure trucks, gas, plows, etc. Pretty much cost the same from here to there. So how does a guy survive on $30 per hour with his own truck? I don't see how it's possible. I mean come on, might as well work at walmart and get some benefits. By the way I do not sub and do not hire subs. How much are you making per hour per sub at $30, I hope at the minimum it's double that. Exploiting the dumb is what it is, they will wisen up and bid your props at $40. Have fun with that.

Is this what you learned from sima?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

I don't have subs either.


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## Greenery (Jun 23, 2007)

Ok well my bad, from your post it seemed as though you did and were paying them $30.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Buffalo is not a big sub area. Very few companies run subs and the ones that do might only have 1 or 2.


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## second income (Sep 19, 2010)

My point on my earlier comment was not intended to infer that Grandview did not know his costs, I am sure he does, I was merely commenting on the fact that we need to know our costs but our costs alone should not dictate the maximum price to charge just merely the minimum we can charge before we lose money. As I have said in prior posts you need to charge market rates. The snow business is not based on razor thin margins like grocery stores are. If you need to break down the cost of a plow truck to the last drop of oil you put in it your are over analyzing your mere existence.


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## TatraFan (Oct 29, 2011)

second income;1339638 said:


> My point on my earlier comment was not intended to infer that Grandview did not know his costs, I am sure he does, I was merely commenting on the fact that we need to know our costs but our costs alone should not dictate the maximum price to charge just merely the minimum we can charge before we lose money. As I have said in prior posts you need to charge market rates. The snow business is not based on razor thin margins like grocery stores are. If you need to break down the cost of a plow truck to the last drop of oil you put in it your are over analyzing your mere existence.


Actually, extreme cost analysis is exactly how Carnegie made his name in the Steel Business in the 19th Century-- learning how to save one penny or so in each step of the manufacturing process made him more cost effective. Thus more profitable and then finally one of the biggest in the steel industry. It is also the reason why J.P Morgan was eager to remove him from the industry so his volatile practices of lowering the final product costs' and thus price could be stabilized. And so that is why collusion is frowned upon by the Federal Government-- My point here is simple if you want to play the cost analysis game you never do too much cost analysis and thus potential savings!


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## kipcom (Feb 3, 2001)

This is a great topic for discussion and is just the type that belongs on a "thread" based site (with no live discussion).

I see most need to take a "good" Business Accounting class and learn how to get the actual cost of doing business.

A. Cost per unit = ?
B. Income per unit = ?

B (-) A = ?

Simple huh...... NOT


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## underESTIMATED (Jul 2, 2010)

*Subscribed.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

grandview;1338709 said:


> There's been a little discussion lately about costs of running plow trucks doesn't matter new or old. For myself I break the year down to 2 seasons,snow and landscape.Guys feel that they have to charge so much per hour to cover their truck cost ,which you should do.But sometimes you need to break it down even more as to the cost of that truck. In my case I plow around 25-35 times per season.But some guys might only plow 5-10 times per season or over 35 times. So lets work with if you have a payment theory. Lets say for ex. your payment is 500.00 a month.Your season runs about 5 months,so your cost of the truck is 2500.00 for the plow season .In my case 2500/25 =100.00 each time I go out ,and if I'm out for 10 hrs my hourly cost is 10.00 per hour for the truck payment.So guys who go out less their cost is more even if we all had the same payment.Of course you add your other costs .So I guess what I'm trying to get at is a guy can make the same amount of money at 40 an hr as the guy charging 100 an hr. So are they lowballers or price gougers? Yes ,no?


Thing is it's not as simple as knowing one's costs

Because there are too many periods of time during the year when the truck is not used.
If a truck was used every day for a set amount of mileage for a set 40 hours a week then cost and maintence can be figured out to the penny by the hour. However that's not the case.

One can guess the number of days a truck is used per year, then based on that figure approximate hours used per year and the mileage per year. Then after estimating cost to run, and how many years the truck should last, the hourly rate should include the cost of a replacement truck. Then one can figure the hourly cost to figure into an estimate for a customers job.

To say "Lets say for ex. your payment is 500.00 a month. Your season runs about 5 months,so your cost of the truck is 2500.00 for the plow season .In my case 2500/25 =100.00 each time I go out ,and if I'm out for 10 hrs my hourly cost is 10.00 per hour for the truck payment" is wrong because you are basing your truck cost on monthly payment a fixed time frame."

One year you can go out 25 times for 1 hour each time.

Next year you go out 25 times 10 hours each time.

Next year 15 times, year after 35 times.

So how do you get an hourly cost that is correct?

Example a lawn mower gets used 30 weeks. You have 30 weeks a year to make enough money to make 12 monthly loan payments and save cash to replace old mower with a new mower in ten years. So you only can base the cost rate on the hours one can use a mower in 30 weeks.

Example a plow lets say you can use for 15 weeks. You have only 15 weeks a year to make enough money to make 12 monthly plow loan payments and save money to buy a new plow cash in 10 years.

Now what to do with a truck that gets used for landscaping and snow removal?

Figure out you goal to use your truck for maximum use. Say you do LCO work for 9 month/39 week/40 hr week. That gives you 1,560 billable hours. Then plowing breaks down to 13 wk/10 hr week, that gives you 130 billable hours.

It appears that hourly rate for plowing will be higher then LCO. And it should be because people seem to have more truck related expenses when plowing.

How about this:

For those that only plow for 13 weeks/one fourth of the year and use the truck for personal use the rest of the year, then their hourly cost should only reflect 1/4 of the operation/maintenace and replacement cost of the truck.


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

Good Thread GV Thumbs Up.

Here's another wrench to throw into the equation.

Cost of living.-

Your truck, when plowing, makes you money not only for your business but also to pay yourself.

So if a single guy, with a job, only needs 2k a month to live off of, and plows on the side, does that mean he can charge less and make more.

Or, if you are married, do this sort of work full time with no other income, and you need 5k a month to support your family, does that mean that you charge more and make less after all your expenses.

And here's another that I take into consideration. I try to make 45-60 bucks an hour for my physical labor and knowledge of landscaping when working in the summer months. If you are a skilled truck operator, working long hours with no sleep during plowing season, then should your hourly rate reflex your experience and physical toll of plowing and maintenance of your body. Ultimately, you could take at least 45 an hour of your truck rate and consider that labor, and you are charging 80 an hour then only 35 bucks an hour goes towards the truck.

If a guy is only getting 40 an hour, then he's not making really anything.

In a nutshell it's kinda depressing when you think about it.

....


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

KBTConst;1339126 said:


> Another great thread from GV!


First time for everything.


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## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

32vld;1345234 said:


> Thing is it's not as simple as knowing one's costs
> 
> Because there are too many periods of time during the year when the truck is not used.
> If a truck was used every day for a set amount of mileage for a set 40 hours a week then cost and maintence can be figured out to the penny by the hour. However that's not the case.
> ...


Point taken, but still incorrect. Plowing with a truck costs more than landscaping with the same truck. If your truck does not plow or drive on overly salted roads you will get 10 years easy out of the truck with no major problems. Possibly transmission, brakes, etc. Now if you plow with the same truck your usable life is nearly cut in half. Body rot, frame damage, brakes every 2 years, increased tire wear, brake and fuel lines, ****er links, etc.

We track our vehicle expenses, and have separated vehicles. My finding is that plowing with a truck significantly increases the maintenance cost per hour. The usable life of many components is cut in half. Resale goes down, etc. The irs model of $0.58 per mile is pretty good for non plowing. I find the actual plowing per mile numbers to be $2-3 per mile. This doesnt include labor, insurance, reg, etc. Straight costs to have the key in the on position between Dec and Mar.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

shovelracer;1345417 said:


> Point taken, but still incorrect. Plowing with a truck costs more than landscaping with the same truck. If your truck does not plow or drive on overly salted roads you will get 10 years easy out of the truck with no major problems. Possibly transmission, brakes, etc. Now if you plow with the same truck your usable life is nearly cut in half. Body rot, frame damage, brakes every 2 years, increased tire wear, brake and fuel lines, ****er links, etc.
> 
> We track our vehicle expenses, and have separated vehicles. My finding is that plowing with a truck significantly increases the maintenance cost per hour. The usable life of many components is cut in half. Resale goes down, etc. The irs model of $0.58 per mile is pretty good for non plowing. I find the actual plowing per mile numbers to be $2-3 per mile. This doesnt include labor, insurance, reg, etc. Straight costs to have the key in the on position between Dec and Mar.


Reread my post I said that plowing costs more.

"It appears that hourly rate for plowing will be higher then LCO. And it should be because people seem to have more truck related expenses when plowing."

Then I guess my example was not clear enough.

"Figure out you goal to use your truck for maximum use. Say you do LCO work for 9 month/39 week/40 hr week. That gives you 1,560 billable hours. Then plowing breaks down to 13 wk/10 hr week, that gives you 130 billable hours."

Now if a business' truck costs are $2080 per year then the following:

Thing is LCO there are 1,560 hours of work to cover truck costs. @ $1 dollar per hour you will bring in $1,560 for 9 months.

Snow plow 130 bill hrs will have to be charged @ $4 per hour to make up the 3 months of expenses of $ 520.


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## shovelracer (Sep 3, 2004)

I think you mean per mile not per hr. Here is what drew my previous post:

"For those that only plow for 13 weeks/one fourth of the year and use the truck for personal use the rest of the year, then their hourly cost should only reflect 1/4 of the operation/maintenace and replacement cost of the truck."

This is incorrect. We have 3 trucks now that are plow only trucks. Your statement implies that if the trucks are used the rest of the year that our rate for those trucks should only be 1/4th of the total cost. The trucks are used the rest of the year for various purposes, but they really are only making money plowing. 100% of their cost is included in the plowing rate. If we did not plow we would not have them.

Even in a situation of a guy that plows in winter, but uses the truck as his primary vehicle to get to his other job. The majority of the maintenance costs will arise from the time he is plowing. In this situation I would say 95% of maintenance costs should be applied.

The biggest problem I find in the industry is that landscaping guys plow to keep the trucks making money. Most of the time they see winter income, but in the long run they actually do not make anything. Like anything else it comes down to knowing your costs.

The example is basing months of expenses compared to hrs of income. My point was that regardless of months or hrs, the costs associated with plowing are greater than any other time of year. When tracking costs you will find that in the 3 months of plowing the expenses will be higher than the other 9 months combined.


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## NFDDJS (Sep 22, 2009)

I need to make $80/hour for my trucks with 9"6 V-Plows and for my 10 Wheeler with a plow, wing, and Highway salter I need to make around $110/hour backhoe with 12ft pusher $95/hour and my loader with a 18ft pusher $135/hour. My trucks with 9'6 plows are replaced every 8 years and we are trying to get 15 years out of backhoes, 10 wheelers, and the loader. How I break down my hourly rate is as fallows.

The last Truck with 9.6 foot fisher V-plow that we got this year cost us $48,000 all set up.
labor is $18/hour then insurance for each truck is about $900 a year. So I break it down hourly with each year with how many hours we had plowed for the last 5 years. it seems to be around 200 to 220 hours over the last 10 years.

Truck

Truck: $30
Labor: $18
Ins: $4.50
fuel: $10
Total $62.50

Then I add 25% to that for profit so that bring it to $78.12 and then a round it up to the $80 for my hours rate. That is how I come up with my hourly rate for my trucks. The 10 wheeler and the backhoes and my loader I price them about the same but they work year round and with a loader cost $200,000 backhoe around $95,000 and a 10 wheeler all set up costing about the same as the loader that is a rate that is set for winter only. I have summer rates that are less 10 wheeler at $80 backhoe $85 and loader $100.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

shovelracer;1345817 said:


> I think you mean per mile not per hr. Here is what drew my previous post:
> 
> "For those that only plow for 13 weeks/one fourth of the year and use the truck for personal use the rest of the year, then their hourly cost should only reflect 1/4 of the operation/maintenace and replacement cost of the truck."
> 
> ...


I gave two distinct examples where one guy uses a truck to plow in the winter and personal use the rest of the year.

The other one is lco 3/4 of the year and 1/4 plowing.

Even if costs for plowing were equal to or less then for LCO, the truck payments force the truck operating on a per hour basis to be higher when plowing because there are way less hours spent plowing then landscaping.

Cost gets spread out over 1,500 hours against 130 hours. This is the main reason plow cost per hour has to be at a higher rate.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Lets just skip this thread and everyone charge 200.00 an hour for plowing.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

"For those that only plow for 13 weeks/one fourth of the year and use the truck for personal use the rest of the year, then their hourly cost should only reflect 1/4 of the operation/maintenace and replacement cost of the truck."

"This is incorrect. We have 3 trucks now that are plow only trucks. Your statement implies that if the trucks are used the rest of the year that our rate for those trucks should only be 1/4th of the total cost. The trucks are used the rest of the year for various purposes, but they really are only making money plowing. 100% of their cost is included in the plowing rate. If we did not plow we would not have them."

Apples and oranges.

Having one or three trucks that sit for 9 months of the year to just plow in the winter is not the same as using a truck only for personal use most of the year and plow during the winter.

Your costs have to be based on a three month opportunity to make money because you own these trucks for 12 months. 

Just as a LCO that only does landscape for nine months, their costs have to be based on nine months opportunity to make money because they own the truck for 12 months.

It's pointless on how many months a truck is used a year when 12 truck payments have to be made.

Total hours worked in a year is what determines how much that trucks is going to have to earn on a per hour basis to cover that trucks operating cost.

"Even in a situation of a guy that plows in winter, but uses the truck as his primary vehicle to get to his other job. The majority of the maintenance costs will arise from the time he is plowing. In this situation I would say 95% of maintenance costs should be applied."

Put on 5,000 miles plowing, 45,000 miles personal so plowing should have to pay 90% of the tire cost?

"The biggest problem I find in the industry is that landscaping guys plow to keep the trucks making money. Most of the time they see winter income, but in the long run they actually do not make anything."

Only if they go around low balling.

"The example is basing months of expenses compared to hrs of income. My point was that regardless of months or hrs, the costs associated with plowing are greater than any other time of year. When tracking costs you will find that in the 3 months of plowing the expenses will be higher than the other 9 months combined."

Again even if the costs for plowing were the same or less. There is less time to plow so that alone means plowing costs have to be higher to just make the truck payments.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

grandview;1345942 said:


> Lets just skip this thread and everyone charge 200.00 an hour for plowing.


I'll offer your customers $199 @ hour.:laughing:


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## DesMoines2500 (Nov 1, 2012)

*$60/hr* is what it costs us to run 2 older 7.5' bladed 3/4 tons.

My trucks are just two old dedicated plow trucks that my buddy and I run in the winter. They sit for the most part 9 months out of the year. We originally paid $4200 and $3800 to purchase with the plows attached. *They cost $60 an hour with a driver.* They get 10/mpg while plowing.

We do carry insurance of our own. $1,000,000 in contractor gen liability and then of course insurance on the trucks themselves. Insurance cost us about $1600 for the season last year. I expect 160 billable hours this year

$10/hr insurance
$10/hr fuel
$20/hr driver (which is usually one of us but we have a guy who is awesome, he get's $20 too.)
$10/hr repairs and general maintenance (that's what we averaged last year anyway)
$10/hr in equipment depreciation (just a rough estimation, they cost $8000 and should go for another 5 years, roughly 800 more hours before they're worthless. $8000/800 = $10/hr)

Of course, we're taking the driver's cut much of the time and pocketing $20/hr but for being on call 24/7 that seems right to me too and should be considered in the cost of running the truck per hour no matter who it gets paid to.

So... *$60/hr* is what it costs us to run them. Anything less we're losing money and these are on old beaters so the depreciation expense is as low as it goes. Definitely time to stop subbing and get some accounts of our own next year though because I think we've maxed out subbing for $65/hr here.


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## DesMoines2500 (Nov 1, 2012)

grandview;1339348 said:


> If your talking to me. I do know costs and in my area I can get guys to plow all day long for 30.00 an hr.


Is this serious? I don't see how anyone, anywhere can possibly make truely money at $30/hr. Gas alone is $10. Depreciation another $10. I just don't see it.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

DesMoines2500;1647235 said:


> Is this serious? I don't see how anyone, anywhere can possibly make truely money at $30/hr. Gas alone is $10. Depreciation another $10. I just don't see it.


I'm a sub the rich get richer the poor get poorer 65 is average here its not a hobby I wont work for free or why is a driveway 40 bucks it only took you two minutes we all spend hard earned money before the blade lowers if you plow for a lower wage than your costs are your letting someone take advantage of you not too mention your on call all winter sorry for any typos posting from a phone sucks


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## 2006Sierra1500 (Dec 28, 2011)

Too much. They cost me too much.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

downtoearthnh;1338772 said:


> And while your looking at costs to plow, consider the cost of the plow itself and its maintenance, which might add another 10% on to the total costs.


or much more since we generally rarely break anything landscaping and break a lot in the snow business..


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

At least a case of beer per night.



THEGOLDPRO;1339049 said:


> Ill have to ask my mom.


LOL


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

grandview;1345942 said:


> Lets just skip this thread and everyone charge 200.00 an hour for plowing.


On my commercial route, I make just about $200 per hour. But, it's only 2.5 hours. My residentials, that works out to about $80 per hour as an average.
Now, some may say that $200 an hour is crazy, but they are buying more than just a plow for the money. They are buying my undivided attention, and diligence. They are buying my assurance to be there on time, in time, every time- and a job done well. 
I figure that alone is worth something. 
And I am doing the jobs for the same price the previous guy did it for...the big difference is, I do it a lot faster, and a lot cleaner. Where he took over an hour to do a sloppy job, I take 40 minutes, and it's spotless. They love me.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

DesMoines2500;1647233 said:


> *$60/hr* is what it costs us to run 2 older 7.5' bladed 3/4 tons.
> 
> My trucks are just two old dedicated plow trucks that my buddy and I run in the winter. They sit for the most part 9 months out of the year. We originally paid $4200 and $3800 to purchase with the plows attached. *They cost $60 an hour with a driver.* They get 10/mpg while plowing.
> 
> ...


You are a man in need of two 9'6" Fisher Xtreme V-II plows. Money made faster is more money made.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Buswell Forest;1647301 said:


> You are a man in need of two 9'6" Fisher Xtreme V-II plows. Money made faster is more money made.


I agree if you you are working for yourself I sub with 2 plows a 7.5 and an 8.5 I get the same rate my guy pays me real well on time every time lets say less than a week after the event


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Lowballers......
Thats what is driving the whole industry down..
If everyone would keep the prices high and be competitive, then let customers decide on customer service and quality, not on a low bid.


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## dcamp824 (Dec 21, 2009)

Buswell Forest;1647301 said:


> You are a man in need of two 9'6" Fisher Xtreme V-II plows. Money made faster is more money made.


Well said!!!


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Flawless440;1647605 said:


> Lowballers......
> Thats what is driving the whole industry down..
> If everyone would keep the prices high and be competitive, then let customers decide on customer service and quality, not on a low bid.


I agree but my thoughts are this to many people are unemployed when they build a walmart here and say look at all the jobs we're going to have thats just bs and then all of the forginers put a plow on the truck and are in business everyone has to stick together but this will not happen p.s im not trying to put anyone down of be a racist


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## PhilFromErie (Jun 29, 2009)

I don't think any of us really know how much our trucks really cost.


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## Matt994 (Nov 8, 2012)

THEGOLDPRO;1339049 said:


> Ill have to ask my mom.


Hey THEGOLDPRO, Hows the 454 on fuel plowing?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Matt994;1647843 said:


> Hey THEGOLDPRO, Hows the 454 on fuel plowing?


Sucks,just like him!:laughing:


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## White Gardens (Oct 29, 2008)

This whole thread keeps me thinking that I need to find another source of income in the winter to keep myself and the employees busy......

I really want to drop the money on another dump truck, but then I realize just how much plowing and winter will devalue the thing in half the normal time.

........


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## OldSchoolPSD (Oct 16, 2007)

$10,500 a year per truck. That's average for new and used. Payments on newer trucks run about the same as maintenance on the older ones. 

There is a point of diminishing return where it becomes costlier to keep the trucks in good working order than it would be to make payments on a new one. I keep them 10 years or 200,000 miles. At that point they start needing expensive parts and they are fully depreciated. I have one low mileage older one that I keep around because I like it.

They sure don't pay for themselves pushing snow. If I didn't have a solid municipal contract and guys that are always willing to put in extra hours to make extra money, I wouldn't even fool with it. They guys that push for $65/hr or less? They can have fun with that. I'll sit on the couch in front of a cozy fire before I go out there and run my trucks for free...


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

THEGOLDPRO;1339049 said:


> Ill have to ask my mom.


:laughing:



dfd9;1647288 said:


> At least a case of beer per night.


You must run Cummings....my furds run me about 2cases per night.


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