# Western Isarmatic soleniod plow stuck up



## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Hi, I have a Western unimount Mark III. The unit was working just fine and the plow got stuck in the up position. Backed up moving the plow to the left and right and it became free to go down again. The next day went out to clean up the excess snow and half way through the job the plow got stuck in the up position.
I have studied the schematics, checked all wires to be good. Have it narrowed down to the S1 cartridge valve, maybe. Have not taken it apart.
My question is How to let the blade down without draining the fluid and what would make it just stop working.
Thank you for any help in advance!


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Well Ck for power while the blade is in float. 
You can hotwire the coil and see if that works. To get it down, well your Gunnas make a mess no matter what.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Not sure how to hot wire the coil. Could I use jumper cable from the battery directly to the contact points on the C1 cartridge? The blade will move left and right and would go higher if it could.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Going to test the magnetic pull on C1 today. Did not have a helper yesterday.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Yellow/wht. Yes small "jumper" wires. Actually just one to the pos side of the batt to the yel/wht wire. Can also do the screwdriver test while your at it. Watch your toes as well.
If you have a joystick, use a couple rubber bands to hold it down


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

You can use small jumper wires to jumper the S1 coil. Just hook power and ground to the respective terminals on the coil, but make sure you stay clear of the blade, because if the coil and valve are operating properly, the blade is going to come down when you jumper the coil. If it does not come down, then you need to check for magnetism at the coil with it removed, power and ground to the coil from your harness, and for a sticking or faulty S1 valve... one of those things is causing your issue. Don't try to remove the S1 valve with the plow hanging on the cylinder, otherwise you'll be cleaning up fluid twenty feet away. If you need to remove the valve, raise the blade with a floor jack to relieve the pressure on the cylinder, then remove the valve with a drain pan under the pump.


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## Drconstruction (Nov 29, 2012)

I hooked my plow up for the first time last week, had the same problem. Goes up, left, right, not down. Check the connector at the grill first. I had a bad connection at the pin inside the plug, cleaned it out, all is well. Good luck!


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

OK, Thanks for advise, will get to it as soon as possible. Can't bring it inside and real work to do today. I did unplug the 2 grill connections and they looked clean, will try that again as it would be the quickest fix.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Today I ran a jumper wire from the battery to the C1 connectors. The blade went down.
Now that we know that works this way, what would be the next thing to test?
All your help is greatly appreciated.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ck for signal to.the coil.from the clicker


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

The clicker being the joy stick?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes........


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

If I get a signal that power is going from the joy stick to the coil, would that mean the coil is fried? 
A coil is inexpensive, so might order one so I can swap it out as long as I'm out there in the cold working on it.
I found this one for $17.54 http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=9001907


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Pokerz;1886224 said:


> If I get a signal that power is going from the joy stick to the coil, would that mean the coil is fried?
> A coil is inexpensive, so might order one so I can swap it out as long as I'm out there in the cold working on it.
> I found this one for $17.54 http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=9001907


Not if the plow dropped when you hot wired the coil. The coil must be functional. You're either missing ground at the coil, or it's not getting voltage when you activate the controller.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

I never hot wired the coil, just ran a wire from the battery to the C1 connector.
All the wires are in really good shape.


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Pokerz;1886235 said:


> I never hot wired the coil, just ran a wire from the battery to the C1 connector.
> All the wires are in really good shape.


What's the C1 connector?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

If you ran a wire from pos batt to the coil, and the plow dropped,,, You just hotwired it. Have you cked power from the controller to the coil yet?


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

What he said.... ^ ^ ^ ^ ^


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

By C1 connector, I mean the wires that connect directly onto the C1. The actual coil is where the wires go from the controller and then to the plow assembly C1,C2 and C3. I posted a link to what my coil looks like and I didn't mess with that at all accept to make sure all the wires are good and tightly connected.
Sorry, but I'm kind of a dork and don't know how to check if power is going from the controller (joy stick) to the coil. When I move the joy stick to lower when in the cab, I hear a click within the controller box the same as it always had.
I had an old van that I used to start by putting a screw driver on the coil and jumping the pos/neg (hot wire). Is that what you mean by hot wire? Because I completely bypassed the coil when lowering the blade.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Rubber band the controller DOWN, get out and test light the coil. Clip from test light on ground, point on coil wire. See what happens


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Running this plow on my 85 blazer and only plowing our 1000 ft drive. If I had a circle turn around on each end of the drive I could just leave it down and not worry about it, but that's not the case, have to back up and go forward in a few spot.
Your help is greatly appreciated!


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Dieselss, I don't have a test light, but I do have an ohm meter and I am no electrician. I know the pos and neg wires on the coil. Not sure where or what wires I'm supposed to be touching with the meter.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Dieselss, I don't have a test light, but do have an ohm meter. Exactly which wires will I be testing for 12v current?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok the blk/og is the gnd, the other wire is signal pos. So black lead from your meter to a good gnd, and red lead to the coil signal wire while the down is on on the controller


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

OK, Rubber banded DOWN, ignition on and controller on. Meter red lead to signal black lead to good ground yielded a goose egg on the meter. Tested across the neg and pos polls on the coil and got 12v. Retested with my other meter and got same results.
Does this mean the controller has a problem?


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

You put the meter right in the connector at the coil? 
Not sure I understand where you got 12v at tho?


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## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

dieselss;1886597 said:


> You put the meter right in the connector at the coil?
> Not sure I understand where you got 12v at tho?


I think he got 12 volts across the coil.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Rick547;1886660 said:


> I think he got 12 volts across the coil.


See now that makes no sense to me. 12v at the coil, then it should work. We know the coil works as he said he hotwired it.


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## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

dieselss;1886664 said:


> See now that makes no sense to me. 12v at the coil, then it should work. We know the coil works as he said he hotwired it.


It a problem troubleshooting a problem with out being present.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Exactly, and proper terminology


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

While the joy stick was rubber banded in the down position I put the red lead of the ohm meter on the signal wire that connects to the coil and the black lead of the ohm meter to a good ground and the meter read 0. 

Then I put the red lead of the ohm meter on the positive poll of the coil and the black lead of the ohm meter on the neg poll of the coil and got 12v (hot wired?).
Does that make more sense?


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Pokerz;1886841 said:


> While the joy stick was rubber banded in the down position I put the red lead of the ohm meter on the signal wire that connects to the coil and the black lead of the ohm meter to a good ground and the meter read 0.
> 
> Then I put the red lead of the ohm meter on the positive poll of the coil and the black lead of the ohm meter on the neg poll of the coil and got 12v (hot wired?).
> Does that make more sense?


The first thing that every single snow plow owner, that seeks to repair his own stuff, should buy is a 12V test light... they're like $3.00.

Anyway, you're testing for ohms, or volts? Because seeing zero on an ohm meter is something entirely different than seeing zero on a volt meter. So, which is it? Because the only thing we're concerned about is voltage.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

I had the ohm meter set to read DC volts. I had a simple 12v light meter years ago, but it broke and I bought an ohm/voltage meter.


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Ok. I got it now. But...

This:



Pokerz;1886841 said:


> While the joy stick was rubber banded in the down position I put the red lead of the ohm meter on the signal wire that connects to the coil and the black lead of the ohm meter to a good ground and the meter read 0.


Seems to contradict this:



Pokerz;1886841 said:


> Then I put the red lead of the ohm meter on the positive poll of the coil and the black lead of the ohm meter on the neg poll of the coil and got 12v (hot wired?).


Anyway, I'm pretty well convinced that you've got some sort of harness issue at this point. You stated earlier, what I interpreted to be anyway, that in some way, shape, or form, you delivered 12v to the coil, and the plow dropped. Obviously, even through our mis-communication, the coil has to be working... It's the only way the plow would drop without physically/mechanically relieving the pressure in the lift cylinder. At this point, I'd hook everything back up, and with the plow raised, rubber-band the controller in the down position and start shaking and twisting the control harness and twisting the grille plugs and see if you can make the plow drop. Do the same with the harness going to the coils on the plow. This may help you find a faulty wire or connection. That's what I believe your issue is.

EDIT: Btw... keep your toes clear of the plow while you're doing the twisting and shaking thing on the harnesses. Be prepared for the plow to drop if you find your faulty connection.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Sorry to make this so difficult because of my not so perfect terminology and inability to be at the computer all the time.

Yes, I delivered 12v to the C1 coil on the plow with wire to lower the blade.
I completely bypassed and Never messed with the coil where the controller wires lead to, only did the voltage tests on that coil. First test was the signal wire to ground and got 0 volts, then crossed over the coil and got 12v. It may seem contradictory, but that is what the readings were.

I have tried wiggling and twisting the wires, will try again on Tuesday. Tomorrow we will have subzero weather and on Tuesday it is supposed to be back in the 20's, then I'll shake and twist on the wires. Don't want any wires breaking due to such cold temps.

To me it seems like if I get zero volts from the signal wire it might have something to do with the controller inside the cab. I don't know, that is why I ask.
Thank you all for helping!


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Pokerz;1886917 said:


> Sorry to make this so difficult because of my not so perfect terminology and inability to be at the computer all the time.
> 
> Yes, I delivered 12v to the C1 coil on the plow with wire to lower the blade.
> I completely bypassed and Never messed with the coil where the controller wires lead to, only did the voltage tests on that coil. First test was the signal wire to ground and got 0 volts, then crossed over the coil and got 12v. It may seem contradictory, but that is what the readings were.
> ...


Trying another controller, if you can borrow one from someone maybe, would be a good test as well.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

That would be nice, but not an option as I don't know any other plow guys in my area. This is driving me


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

This is what I was calling the coil. Perhaps should be calling it the solenoid relay.


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## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

Pokerz;1886968 said:


> This is what I was calling the coil. Perhaps should be calling it the solenoid relay.


Well that is not what I though you were talking about. I'm going back from the beginning and read everything you posted again.


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

That's the motor relay. No wonder we're having a bit of confusion. 

The coils are under a square plastic cover on the plow pump. When activated, they create magnetism to move the hydraulic cartridges, which direct fluid to move the plow.

Page 18, part #64 here:

http://library.westernplows.com/westernplows/pdffiles/63015.17_090112.pdf


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## Rick547 (Oct 9, 2009)

Will the plow do anything at all. Move left, right or go up?


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Pokerz;1886410 said:


> Running this plow on my 85 blazer and only plowing our 1000 ft drive. If I had a circle turn around on each end of the drive I could just leave it down and not worry about it, but that's not the case, have to back up and go forward in a few spot.
> Your help is greatly appreciated!


Do you know to pm a member


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Really, man. 
Now that explains why he got 12v across it. 
So you hotwired that and the plow dropped? That's odd. 
And have you looked at westerns website, library, wiring diagrams?


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

OK, Where I say C1, that is the only time I'm speaking of the coil cartridge on the pump. When I typed just the word coil I meant to refer to the solenoid.
So sorry for not knowing the correct word for each part...ugh No wonder you guys were shaking your heads.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

I have looked at the wire diagrams. I did not know I could private message members.
The plow blade will go up, left and right. I ran a wire from the battery to the C1 coil to make the blade go down. Then tested the voltage at the solenoid. That is it so far.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok, the solenoid works leave that alone....You need to test light the coils AT THE PLOW now. The rubber band thing that I mentioned a few posts back.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Alright, I'm heading out to work and going to stop at the store today and buy a new test light. Will do the tests tomorrow morning or tonight if I get done with work early enough.
I'm so sorry for causing confusion, the confusion is on my end.
Thank you!


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Hi, I bought a new test light and tested it and it works good.

Rubber banded the joy stick to down position, ignition on, controller on. Placed clip on a good ground and tested to a hot point and had good light. touched the end to the yellow and white wire on the C1 coil and no light. Touched the wire while connected and not connected and no light either way.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Pokerz;1888666 said:


> Hi, I bought a new test light and tested it and it works good.
> 
> Rubber banded the joy stick to down position, ignition on, controller on. Placed clip on a good ground and tested to a hot point and had good light. touched the end to the yellow and white wire on the C1 coil and no light. Touched the wire while connected and not connected and no light either way.


Post your email so i can giveyou a number


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

rjigto4oje;1888674 said:


> Post your email so i can giveyou a number


Your email didn't work physically post it


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

rjigto4oje;1888804 said:


> Your email didn't work physically post it


[email protected]


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

rjigto4oje;1887001 said:


> Do you know to pm a member


I tried, but admin has it blocked.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

So, your not getting signal to the coil. My next test would be at the grill connector, then back up at the connector inside the cab, but you'll have to look up what color wire that is. Maybe try and wiggle the wiring harness while the clicker is rubber banded dwn


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Pokerz;1888882 said:


> I tried, but admin has it blocked.


Keep posting pokerz you have to hit 25 posts then you can communicate with members for some reason you emails get sent back to us


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Joe, I sent a test to my .info email and it's working. Try sending to [email protected]


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

dieselss;1888889 said:


> So, your not getting signal to the coil. My next test would be at the grill connector, then back up at the connector inside the cab, but you'll have to look up what color wire that is. Maybe try and wiggle the wiring harness while the clicker is rubber banded dwn


There are 2 grill plugs, I had disconnected each and they look clean, then reconnected before doing these tests.

Will do continuity tests on the yellow and white wire from the grill plug to the C1 coil and if possible from the grill plug to the controller.

Will do some wiggling in the morning and see if I can shake it back to working.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Hers the control i was talking to you about


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Looks just like my controller, but pretty sure mine is hard wired up through the fire wall to the solenoid.
I don't see a yellow/white wire on yours. The yellow/white wire on my C1 coil may not be the same color all the way through the system, don;t know until tomorrow when I start peeling things apart.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

OK guys, found the problem. disconnected the grill plug and examined it closely. 2 of the female (grill side) connectors are broken and stuck to the plow side plug.

Anyone have one of those plugs that I could splice in to replace the bad one?
Or know where to buy one. I don't want to buy the entire harness.


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## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Pokerz;1890066 said:


> OK guys, found the problem. disconnected the grill plug and examined it closely. 2 of the female (grill side) connectors are broken and stuck to the plow side plug.
> 
> Anyone have one of those plugs that I could splice in to replace the bad one?
> Or know where to buy one. I don't want to buy the entire harness.


The truck side repair plug is a part #49308 for 9 pin, or #49310 for 12 pin.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Pokerz;1890066 said:


> OK guys, found the problem. disconnected the grill plug and examined it closely. 2 of the female (grill side) connectors are broken and stuck to the plow side plug.
> 
> Anyone have one of those plugs that I could splice in to replace the bad one?
> Or know where to buy one. I don't want to buy the entire harness.


Any local western dealer or amazon or ebay


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks for the part #s!
Seeing as how the plow will never leave the old 85 blazer, Thinking I might snip off both plugs and wire twist them together to save the cash.
Thank you everyone for all the help!


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Alright, here is what I found out with the help of all of you.
Narrowed it down to the controller, the E61 5A 125/250VAC Switch inside the controller went bad.
This happens to be the switch with just 2 solder prongs from what I can see on the computer board.

Does anyone happen to have an extra switch they would be willing to let go?

In the meantime, I can Hot wire the C1 coil from inside the cab by hooking up a wire from the fuse box acc to a toggle switch to the white wire with yellow stripe that goes to the C1 coil.


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Ebay item number 261687154962


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Jim, I had found that one, but it is a 3 pin. The switch on the circuit board for C1 coil is a 2 pin. Could this one be modified?


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## rjigto4oje (Oct 27, 2010)

Pokerz;1895471 said:


> Jim, I had found that one, but it is a 3 pin. The switch on the circuit board for C1 coil is a 2 pin. Could this one be modified?


I'll have to check


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

Peel one of yours apart, follow the red wire.


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## Pokerz (Nov 24, 2014)

To close this out:
I bought one of the 5 amp switches with 3 prongs, cut off the extra prong and soldered it in the place of the C1 switch that had gone bad. Now the controller works perfectly and the plow moves as it should.
Thank you all for the wonderful help, without you all I would have been lost.
Happy New Year!!!


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