# Winter Employment Contract



## Dimple (Sep 10, 2018)

I’m looking for an employment contract template for our new snow plower. What are others using?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Dimple said:


> I'm looking for an employment contract template for our new snow plower. What are others using?


Can you please clarify the question.

Are you a property owner looking for a contract for your hired contractor that will be preforming work on your property?

Are you a contractor looking for a contract for a sub-contractor?

Are you a contractor looking for contract for an employee that will be plowing snow for your operation?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Contract for employee:

Me: I have this route with this piece of equipment. 
Employee: OK, I have this experience or none. This is when I am available.
Me: I will pay you $XX.XX per hour, train you, etc. 
Employee: Shows up, performs work, hands in route sheet. 
Me: End of pay period I issue a check to said employee for hours worked x agreed upon pay rate. 

Now I do have an employee manual, but it is not part of the "contract". Most people don't understand that a "contract" does not need to be written on a piece of paper that has been reviewed by an attorney and signed by both parties.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Employee, subcontractor,?


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Sounds like he's referring to an employment contract with a future employee, which is just nuts. At all cost's remain at will. Never have a written contract with an employee. Also, never have a "probation" period written in your employee manual.


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## Dimple (Sep 10, 2018)

Seeking contract templates for owner hiring an employee and subcontractors, anyone.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Since you don't seem to know this already, do not have a contract of any sort with an employee.

Good luck with your subcontractors.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Luther said:


> Sounds like he's referring to an employment contract with a future employee, which is just nuts. At all cost's remain at will. Never have a written contract with an employee. Also, never have a "probation" period written in your employee manual.


Interesting....I think I will need a contract this year.....It will spell out what I expect of you as an employer....Things such as double time, sick pay, vacation pay, Holiday pay, breaks every hour....The days of the man keeping the employees down are OVER....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Dimple said:


> Seeking contract templates for owner hiring an employee and subcontractors, anyone.


Why for an employee?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Luther said:


> Also, never have a "probation" period written in your employee manual.


May I ask why?

Someday I'd like to get off probation....


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Contract for employee:
> 
> Me: I have this route with this piece of equipment.
> Employee: OK, I have this experience or none. This is when I am available.
> ...


Curious what's the employee manual consist of?

One of these days I'd like to have an code of conduct, moral and ethical standards that are in writing


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Curious what's the employee manual consist of?


Stuff



BossPlow2010 said:


> One of these days I'd like to have an code of conduct, moral and ethical standards that are in writing


Problem is when the guy who Oks the manual keeps violating them...hence the never ending probation.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> May I ask why?


Yes you may

The fact that some courts have ruled that the mere completion of such an initial evaluation period or "probation period" suggests express or implied contract obligations that make it more difficult for company's to discharge at will.

Specifically, the completion of a probationary period could be construed to mean that the company can no longer discharge the employee without good cause.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Curious what's the employee manual consist of?
> 
> One of these days I'd like to have an code of conduct, moral and ethical standards that are in writing


You can have that in your manual. It would be highly recommended.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Luther said:


> Yes you may
> 
> The fact that some courts have ruled that the mere completion of such an initial evaluation period or "probation period" suggests express or implied contract obligations that make it more difficult for company's to discharge at will.
> 
> Specifically, the completion of a probationary period could be construed to mean that the company can no longer discharge the employee without good cause.


Thanks...I don't care what Defcon says about you, you are very knowledgeable.

I've never had the time to implement a probationary period in my company and now I won't worry about it.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Luther said:


> Yes you may
> 
> The fact that some courts have ruled that the mere completion of such an initial evaluation period or "probation period" suggests express or implied contract obligations that make it more difficult for company's to discharge at will.
> 
> Specifically, the completion of a probationary period could be construed to mean that the company can no longer discharge the employee without good cause.


That explains why all the unions use it...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Curious what's the employee manual consist of?


Substance Abuse Policy, Competent Person Forms, OSHA 10 Hour Forms, W-4, I-9, Labor Law Poster Consent Form, MVR Consent Form, Pre Hire Drug Testing Form, etc...


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Luther said:


> Specifically, the completion of a probationary period could be construed to mean that the company can no longer discharge the employee without good cause.


Sounds like tenure for teachers....


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Curious what's the employee manual consist of?


The employee manuals I have written consist first of a welcome introduction, and sections touching on equal opportunity, dress code, work hours, compensation, severance pay, holidays, outside employment, promotion and raises, accepting gifts, paid vacations, bereavement leave, non-excused absences, workman's compensation, purchase of company merchandise or services, insurance, company property, personnel files, employment classification, part time, temporary or full time status, work rules, conduct, discipline policy, discipline procedures, termination, voluntary termination, COBRA, health and safety and acknowledgement of receipt for employee handbook. Of course slide in somewhere that the company reserves the right at any time to unilaterally revise, suspend, revoke, terminate or change any of its policies, in whole or in part at its sole discretion.

Don't mistake the employee handbook (or manual) with your company safety manual. You need one of those too.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Thanks...I don't care what Defcon says about you, you are very knowledgeable.
> 
> I've never had the time to implement a probationary period in my company and now I won't worry about it.


Employee hand books and safety manuals are handed out and signed for by employees...We have monthly safety meetings to go over and correct any safety issues...When signing for handbooks the employees are stating that they have read and understand all material...As For probationary period...It's 89 days from date of hire...I have seen plenty of guys get let go at day 88-89...Once you hit 90 days it becomes a bit tougher due to the fact your in the Union...Tougher to fire but not impossible...

I'm a firm believer in a code of conduct and work policy...Spells everything out for the minions


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> Substance Abuse Policy, Competent Person Forms, OSHA 10 Hour Forms, W-4, I-9, Labor Law Poster Consent Form, MVR Consent Form, Pre Hire Drug Testing Form, etc...


Pre employment...Random and if involved in an accident...The randoms the company sends in a specimen collector to administer and collect tests at every plant on a random day of every month....


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

As well as being up on all the federal employment laws, know your state's as well. In Illinois once an employee has been with you for 28 days they are eligible for unemployment, which doesnt mean they will get it but they can file regardless of what your "probationary period" is. Also, we spell out in our hand book that we are an at-will employer which means we can hire and fire at will without cause. This doesnt give us a free pass when fighting unemployment just adds another level of protection. And the list of major infractions that warrant termination without written warning are specific. 
As with any company documentation, details and records are the key regardless of what your opinion or stance is.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Your very right...Documantation is key along with knowing the law...I would guess the vast majority of Lawn-Snow company’s don’t have a handbook or a safety program in place...In this day and age you need both


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Employee hand books and safety manuals are handed out and signed for by employees...We have monthly safety meetings to go over and correct any safety issues...When signing for handbooks the employees are stating that they have read and understand all material...As For probationary period...It's 89 days from date of hire...I have seen plenty of guys get let go at day 88-89...Once you hit 90 days it becomes a bit tougher due to the fact your in the Union...Tougher to fire but not impossible...
> 
> I'm a firm believer in a code of conduct and work policy...Spells everything out for the minions


K


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Michigan has recreational
Mary-Jew-wanna on the ballot in October. How do you think that’ll affect substance abuse policies and random testing?

I believe, that if they have a medical card currently and they aren’t using
at work, and are overall operating under the parameters of the card, that an employer is unable to discipline. But then again i don’t know .

I’m going to Implement an employee handbook, as well as a safety standard for my company I think that sum gud advice.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I believe, that if they have a medical card currently and they aren't using
> at work, and are overall operating under the parameters of the card, that an employer is unable to discipline. But then again i don't know .


You believe wrong.

An employer can restrict an employee's free speech, right to bear arms, etc.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> You believe wrong.
> 
> An employer can restrict an employee's free speech, right to bear arms, etc.


Certainly isn't the first time I've been wrong, probably won't be the last


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Michigan has recreational
> Mary-Jew-wanna on the ballot in October. How do you think that'll affect substance abuse policies and random testing?


Won't affect company policy at all.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> An employer can restrict an employee's free speech, right to bear arms, etc.


Why would you not want an employee to carry?

I don't specifically address this topic in the manual, however I do encourage it. As long as they are properly certified. Which reminds me, I need to see DEFCONS current card....I shouldn't just take his word for it.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I believe, that if they have a medical card currently and they aren't using
> at work, and are overall operating under the parameters of the card, that an employer is unable to discipline. But then again i don't know .


https://www.thecannabist.co/2016/12/01/marijuana-laws-for-employees/68546/

From that link:

*CAN MY EMPLOYER STILL TEST ME FOR POT?*

Bottom line: You can't come to work high. You can still be drug tested. And you can still be fired - or not hired - for failing a drug test even if you're not the least bit impaired at work.

All the states with legalized recreational pot have exemptions for workplace drug policies.

In Massachusetts, for example, the law includes language stating that "the authority of employers to enact and enforce workplace policies restricting the consumption of marijuana by employees" is not changed.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Luther said:


> Why would you not want an employee to carry?
> 
> I don't specifically address this topic in the manual, however I do encourage it. As long as they are properly certified. Which reminds me, I need to see DEFCONS current card....


Convenience stores very, very frequently have policies regarding prohibitions of fire arms by employees. Places like liquor stores and banks also. Obviously, they are concerned with being liable (or end up on the 6 o'clock news) for an employee accidentally murdering a customer.

To be clear, I'm not saying I agree with that policy. I'm just stating the justification for it.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Luther said:


> Why would you not want an employee to carry?
> 
> I don't specifically address this topic in the manual, however I do encourage it. As long as they are properly certified. Which reminds me, I need to see DEFCONS current card....I shouldn't just take his word for it.


Who said I don't? Or do? Or whatever...not really sure how to word it.

We were talking before heading out last fall and one of the seasonal help started getting worried when she found out how many of us were carrying.

Seriously though, we had help with our initial handbook and it stated no one was allowed to carry. We updated it and that restriction went away.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Seriously though, we had help with our initial handbook and it stated no one was allowed to carry. We updated it and that restriction went away.


How else could you protect the salt pile?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cwren2472 said:


> How else could you protect the salt pile?


Twin .50's.










And the mobile version:


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> And the mobile version:


I didn't see that roving about from Google Earth. Must be the camouflage


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Currently in the market for one of these:


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

alright, we get the point, let's get back to the discussion please


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

My employee handbook...


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

My employees are not allowed to carry, between most of our customers not allowing in conjunction with most of my employees not being able to from a legal basis it makes my decision easy.
Our firearms policy is 1 of those do as I say not as I do rules.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Luther said:


> Why would you not want an employee to carry?
> 
> I don't specifically address this topic in the manual, however I do encourage it. As long as they are properly certified. Which reminds me, I need to see DEFCONS current card....I shouldn't just take his word for it.


Current card on what ....I will show you my medical card....Any other card I may or may not have is none of you business...

We are not allowed to carry Pursuant to company policy....Where I work in the bowels of Detoilet and the hours I keep...What they don't know won't hurt them


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Current card on what ....I will show you my medical card....Any other card I may or may not have is none of you business...
> 
> We are not allowed to carry Pursuant to company policy....Where I work in the bowels of Detoilet and the hours I keep...What they don't know won't hurt them


And you scoff at me for my opinions of Detoilet.


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