# Best Practices for Plowing Gravel Roads



## kayak (Dec 23, 2013)

Hello, I am the president of our Home Owners Association. We are in a rural area, and there are limited services available. We have a gentleman remove the snow on our gravel roads. We do not have much snow, about 10 to 30 inches each season. The members of the HOA complain as he removes all the gravel off the road every winter. I have tried to find out what are the best practices for plowing gravel. 
Firstly, Is it reasonable for the members to expect most of the gravel to be kept in tact each winter?
I have read mixed information about using skid shoes. Some professionals seem to use them and others don't bother. 
What about 2" pipe?
What steps should our handyman be taking to preserve the gravel?
Thank You


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## 04superduty (Jan 9, 2004)

You can use cut a slit in a pipe and side it over the cutting edge like you mentioned, or you could use a rubber/urethane cutting edge and last, you let the snow build up into ice and then plow. either way there is going to be some gravel moved scraped off to the sides.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Let the snow build up the first snow or two.


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## ddobson (May 8, 2010)

I use a pipe. It cuts down on the gravel displacement.


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## downtoearthnh (Jan 16, 2009)

In over 30 years of plowing, there is no easy answer for the gravel question. Grading, the condition of the road, the changes in conditions of the storms, and the rises and drops in the driveway will all affect the amount of material that is displaced by a plow. It seems that there is a significant amount of gravel plowed up, but often the action of settling, erosion and the effects of puddling are as much at fault as the plow operator. 
Key is to hire an experienced plow operator, and put it in the hands of a pro


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## Plow horse (Oct 18, 2009)

*Be Carefull*

Gravel drives are tough! Especially if there NOT Frozen. Know matter what you will loose gravel. Take there time, shoes and or pipe on cutting edge does help. BUT you will allways loose gravel unless its icy frozen over. Gravel parking lots are real fun to! York rake the gravel back every spring or when ever. I do lots of gravel drives, and there NO Fun. BUT its Work:laughing:


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## Lugnut (Feb 25, 2006)

Without a freeze there is no way the gravel won't be displaced, even if the blade never touches the road the gravel will be picked up by the snow rolling off the plow...I use the 1 down, 2 up rule, drop the plow and give it 2 quick clicks up to raise it up an inch or so and run the roads that way. Key is to make sure everyone knows that they shouldn't expect the roads to be scraped all the way down, that's the sacrifice made to limiting damage to the gravel


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## Plow horse (Oct 18, 2009)

*It works*

Ya I do that too.
And if these people would buy at least tires with tread on them let alone the thought of snow tires then we could leave an inch or two on the gravel rd instead of having to scrape everything to the Bone. 
I am feeling Less and LESS guilty about snow plowing and after care of properties for clients.
JUST because SOMEBODIES has to do it.
why not one of us? Ya it cost to plow! AND yes it cost to clean up stuff in the Spring! We did NOT buy the properties, We just get hired to clear them. 
Why does everybody beat up on plow drivers? They ought to get out there and try it them selves, see how much fun we have clearing the GENERAL Publics drives and lots. 
YES gravel moves with snow!


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

7' wide snowblower on a tractor. Set the shoes so the intake is 1" above the dirt.


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## Drew2010 (Jan 26, 2008)

blacktop the roads... done


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## valleyviewlawns (Aug 28, 2012)

kayak;1694777 said:


> Hello, I am the president of our Home Owners Association. We are in a rural area, and there are limited services available. We have a gentleman remove the snow on our gravel roads. We do not have much snow, about 10 to 30 inches each season. The members of the HOA complain as he removes all the gravel off the road every winter. I have tried to find out what are the best practices for plowing gravel.
> Firstly, Is it reasonable for the members to expect most of the gravel to be kept in tact each winter?
> I have read mixed information about using skid shoes. Some professionals seem to use them and others don't bother.
> What about 2" pipe?
> ...


I plow a county road in my area and I use my shoes set at 1/2"-3/4". You could try a pipe if that plow never touches pavement or parking lots.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

kayak;1694777 said:


> Hello, I am the president of our Home Owners Association. We are in a rural area, and there are limited services available. We have a gentleman remove the snow on our gravel roads. We do not have much snow, about 10 to 30 inches each season. The members of the HOA complain as he removes all the gravel off the road every winter. I have tried to find out what are the best practices for plowing gravel.
> Firstly, Is it reasonable for the members to expect most of the gravel to be kept in tact each winter?
> I have read mixed information about using skid shoes. Some professionals seem to use them and others don't bother.
> What about 2" pipe?
> ...


If we only got 10-30 inches per season, I wouldn't even bother plowing it. Now when you start getting up into 10-30 inches PER STORM, then you need plowing.

The trick to gravel, is not to start plowing too soon. The first storm or two needs to be BEAT DOWN INTO THE ROAD, creating a hard ICE BASE. Once you have your ice base, then you start plowing, and the plow won't reach the gravel.


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## valleyviewlawns (Aug 28, 2012)

jasonv;1732152 said:


> If we only got 10-30 inches per season, I wouldn't even bother plowing it. Now when you start getting up into 10-30 inches PER STORM, then you need plowing.
> 
> The trick to gravel, is not to start plowing too soon. The first storm or two needs to be BEAT DOWN INTO THE ROAD, creating a hard ICE BASE. Once you have your ice base, then you start plowing, and the plow won't reach the gravel.


That is true for the Great White North.  I am in Montana and we just had a high of 54 on the 19th. That frozen base is gone, back to dry gravel.


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## Jakedaawg (Dec 29, 2013)

If your are from Great Cacapone W. Va. I dont think its ever going to get cold enough for the frost to set into the road and stay between snow events. In the early spring and fall I use a pipe and the old meyer style skid shoes. These are way better than the newer disc type shoes. You will still lose some gravel but not nearly as much.

Another thought is dont plow. If the snow is gonna melt in a day or two why bother?


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## Mike NY (Feb 2, 2009)

I will sometimes back drag gravel when it is not frozen in or packed in.


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## M&M (Sep 8, 2008)

I'll second the no plowing idea. Just like Jakedaawg said you will never build the ice pack. Heck I'm in NH and the one gravel drive I plow loses it's icepack 3 or 4 times a season. I set a 4 inch trigger with them otherwise it's not worth showing up and all I do is make a total mess. The homeowner will drive his car up and down the driveway a number of times to pack it down. It's been a very cold winter here and they still do not have a sufficient icepack to run the plow right on the gravel.

Save money! Don't plow!


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

I have a dirt town road I plow with a wheeler. I just pick the plow up off the surface of the road a little and it works good for me. I also try not to put much sand on it if I don't have to. To much sand and salt will turn it right to mud.


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## Plow horse (Oct 18, 2009)

*Fun bumpty bump*

Yup sounds like you all have done this once! Ya I try not to put to much salt down for several reasons, mostly cause it seeps down in and then mudd. I do a couple of gravel drives on hillsides that,,, WELL a challange with or with out chains is a understatement. You know hair pin turns on great angles along with the steepness, HELL a fun drive in the rain, just scary in the snow! I got the new cooper discover snow tires and there the best snow tire yet, only had to use chains in the ice storm to get around the idiots, so as not to have an accident, besides that like the last 48 hrs no chains and 80% of the time in 2wd. What sucked is that the ground was not frozen and if you go off any where its mudd, luckly it was powdery and the gravel didnt stick to the snow, to much. Looks like you have all the answers to gravel you'll need, good luck.:laughing:


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## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

NEVER put salt on a gravel road/driveway, NEVER EVER

I did 2 farm lanes today. Both gravel. The one had 2ft drifts in a couple places. I knocked them down and then back dragged with the weight of the blade and they both came out smooth with a nice 2in layer. Nothing more is needed other then driving on it. 

And yes, gravel WILL get picked up by the snow being pushed no matter what you do. It's all part of physics. Just like you wouldn't think water would carry a heavy rock the size of a basketball onto the road from a heavy rain, but it can. LOL


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## diezeldoc (Jan 21, 2012)

Mike NY;1732225 said:


> I will sometimes back drag gravel when it is not frozen in or packed in.


I do the same thing, during a storm the first hit i back drag then the rest of the hits i do the drop up up method


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Old thread, how does one go about attaching the pipe to the cutting edge?


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## remac (Dec 18, 2013)

I've seen several discussions about using pipe.
I think they weld it on to an old edge so it can be removed.
Tho' some might have rigged an angle iron to bolt to.
Search for pipe or pipe on plow or gravel or sod...


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## Jguck25 (Oct 30, 2009)

There were just some pictures posted recently,I beleive it was in the long picture thread. He just had a small tab welded to the pipe and then bolted to the edge


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

We weld tab to bolt them to the blade bolts for permeant attachment or a bracket to pin them though the skid foot mounts for easy removal.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

basher;1865343 said:


> We weld tab to bolt them to the blade bolts for permeant attachment or a bracket to pin them though the skid foot mounts for easy removal.


Found your pic, and passed it along to a friend who was axing.


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## ib30667 (Mar 4, 2017)

Hi guys! I have an issue, well the Board has an issue, with the residents in our private community:

A little background:
The area used to be a "camp" back in the 30's through the 50's. A place for couples and friends to go and have fun at the lake, sailing, canoes, tennis, basketball....etc. The "roads" were more like wide paths to get to various places in the camp. Not many cars traveled on them except to maybe get to your cabin. 
Then in the 70's the place was sold and was divided up into lots and basically turned into a weekend vacation spot. Houses were built, dirt roads laid out in newer sections...but...the community was never meant to handle the amount of traffic that has built up over the years. 
Now it is more of a year round community with local people using it as a cut through to shave some time off their commute from one road to another. The roads were NEVER set up to be paved. There is no base. It would cost us millions to have that done. We are working on the "cut through" issues. 
The roads are a mess in the winter. We do have a company come plow but it's never quite enough for some residents (or early enough...always someone). Of course, NE PA has 4 seasons in one week sometimes so it creates heaving. The company won't fix pot holes because temporary fixes won't last long. This has been a source of contention for the past 2 years. We do have tar and chip at each entrance of the community but that is starting to break away (I think it's due to poor drainage and lousy plowing...JMO). I feel the plow company does need to not only plow but also monitor and correct and keep on top of other issues that arise (sanding, maybe take it easy on the speed bumps...what a concept). 

Does anyone here have ANY suggestions? (I would like to get another plow company, but I'm just a Board member and can only make the suggestion). The company uses a double axle dump truck which is heavy but I guess distributes the weight over the roads better. Any ideas or advice is appreciated! Thanks!


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

ib30667 said:


> Hi guys! I have an issue, well the Board has an issue, with the residents in our private community:
> 
> A little background:
> The area used to be a "camp" back in the 30's through the 50's. A place for couples and friends to go and have fun at the lake, sailing, canoes, tennis, basketball....etc. The "roads" were more like wide paths to get to various places in the camp. Not many cars traveled on them except to maybe get to your cabin.
> ...


Sounds like the way to fix the problem is to fix the roads. Your going to need to put in real roads and infrastructure. If not it won't matter who you hire to plow, the same issues will continue. You could form a road improvement district through the county in order to raise the funding for the road improvements. Also cutting off access like you said may help.

You could ask the plowing company to raise their plow and leave an inch of snow so that the blade doesn't touch the roads. They should be taking it easy on speed bumps so if they aren't you should raise the concern with the company. If you want them to provide a higher level of service, like more checks, more sanding, better clean up after an event etc, then they should be willing to provide that level of service providing that you are willing to pay more for the increased scope of work.

You will always have residents that are unhappy no matter what. I plow the roads and sidewalks for 3 different HOA's private roads. Like I tell the property manager, I can provide whatever level of service they want, provided they can afford it. The property managers love me, many of the residents hate me lol. Before next season we are going to do the following:

Heavily advertise a board meeting in the summer that will focus on snow and ice management for each community to get as many homeowners there as possible. Talk about what their ideas and expectations are for snow removal.

Explain the options, limitations, and costs involving different options. Plain to homeowners that any level of service can be provided if they are willing to allow the board to raise the price of dues for the association.

After that meeting I will put together viable packages that would meet the needs of the homeowners.

The board will meet and approve one of the options and decide if they need to raise prices.

Once the level of service is determined by the board, I will Co write a standard operating procedure for the community with the property manager. Once approved the SOP will be distributed to the homeowners so that they understand what level of service will be provided.

A process like this may help you out. If the contractor, the board, and the owners all have different expectations on service levels, then no one will ever be happy.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ib30667 said:


> Hi guys! I have an issue, well the Board has an issue, with the residents in our private community:
> 
> A little background:
> The area used to be a "camp" back in the 30's through the 50's. A place for couples and friends to go and have fun at the lake, sailing, canoes, tennis, basketball....etc. The "roads" were more like wide paths to get to various places in the camp. Not many cars traveled on them except to maybe get to your cabin.
> ...


#1 What are your specs?
#2 Did you go with low bid because they were low bid?
#3 Speed bumps on unpaved road?


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## ib30667 (Mar 4, 2017)

ktfbgb said:


> Sounds like the way to fix the problem is to fix the roads. Your going to need to put in real roads and infrastructure. If not it won't matter who you hire to plow, the same issues will continue. You could form a road improvement district through the county in order to raise the funding for the road improvements. Also cutting off access like you said may help.
> 
> You could ask the plowing company to raise their plow and leave an inch of snow so that the blade doesn't touch the roads. They should be taking it easy on speed bumps so if they aren't you should raise the concern with the company. If you want them to provide a higher level of service, like more checks, more sanding, better clean up after an event etc, then they should be willing to provide that level of service providing that you are willing to pay more for the increased scope of work.
> 
> ...


Love your suggestions! Of course, there will always be those that just don't understand it no matter what you propose. We do have a road committee that is very knowledgeable, but he can't get through to these people either. *sigh*. Yes, paving would be the answer, but there is no way we could swing the cost and it would take god knows how long to do all the roads (I will look into county funding or some sort of grant even but it is a private community-I even though about a fund raiser). But I will mention these suggestions to the Chairman and President. Thank you for your insight!


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## ib30667 (Mar 4, 2017)

Mark Oomkes said:


> #1 What are your specs?
> #2 Did you go with low bid because they were low bid?
> #3 Speed bumps on unpaved road?


yes, there are speed bumps. And for the most part they are on the tar and chip areas. It does keep the people from speeding which doesn't help the road issues. The ones that are on the dirt portions of the road were doing ok until the plows can through. Now they're just crumbling bumps in the road.
Low bid..? Not sure, I wasn't there for the vote or the quotes. I can look into that. Good point.
Specs? That's the road committee dept. I'm just a Board member. The road committee is very knowledgeable and tries to keep up on the issues, but there is just so much they can do. I will look into that. 
Thank you!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ib30667 said:


> The ones that are on the dirt portions of the road were doing ok until the plows can through. Now they're just crumbling bumps in the road.


I will not pay for damage to speed bumps on any of my customers roads\lots. And they will pay more if they aren't removable. If I could, I'd charge them for repairs if I damaged my plows on speed bumps.

The rest, it all depends on the answers. But you're likely never going to make everyone happy with the service. I have a private drive that thinks I shouldn't leave berms at the edges of their driveways, even though if they lived on a public road they would. To be fair, if their driveway is plowed before I get there, I do clean the approach. If not, I'm not going to plow the berm away.

But, depending on the specs, maybe the board needs to educate the residents on what is expected, what level of service they are paying to receive, and if the complainers want better service, how much more it is going to cost everyone. That will quite often shut them up.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> and if the complainers want better service, how much more it is going to cost everyone. That will quite often shut them up.


No, they will still complain...


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

IMO this is an HOA problem not a contractor problem.
If you asked me to put shingles down on a collapsed roof you suffer the wallet ache...


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Mr.Markus said:


> IMO this is an HOA problem not a contractor problem.
> If you asked me to put shingles down on a collapsed roof you suffer the wallet ache...


I agree, this is a hoa and location quality problem. You have to fix your property first. No plow companies can or will perform miracles. Dirt speed bumps will be plowed away with the snow over time. Damage ruts grooves, you'll never solve these issues without properly built roads. I know you said it's financially not an option, but then you have to understand proper plowing with minimal damage will never be achievable.


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