# How to throw black smoke



## DBL

how do i get my cummins 6spd to throw some thick black smoke???


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## SnoFarmer

Put a heavy load on it, Make it bog down.
or Waite until it is really cold out and go start it up with out pre heating it. lol


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## exmark1

A power programmer for the computer should make it smoke like a house on fire if programmed properly! Seriously it helps alot with power and does create a good amount of smoke!


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## DBL

exmark1 said:


> A power programmer for the computer should make it smoke like a house on fire if programmed properly! Seriously it helps alot with power and does create a good amount of smoke!


tell me more. let me know what one to get and what to do with it


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## crazymike

if you granny it around town for a bit, then get on the highway, or going up a hill and gun it. You will get black smoke.

But this isn't really a good thing.

And careful with programmers such as banks, etc... as they can void your warrenty depending on the dealers take (or atleast cause headaches).

And you can't just remove them as they usually leave a footprint on the vehicles computer. (you would think if they didn't leave a footprint they would sell more, but that's a thread in it's self)


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## Stark_Enterprises

Injectors and a Edge Comp Box!!! xysport


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## ynot_5_0

Put some gasoline in it.....Should smoke for a little while anyway!


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## DBL

so if i get a chip what one should i look for to get it to do this?


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## BlueRam2500

I personally have the Quadzilla Xilleraider Race chip on my 04.5, and I only noticed black smoke on level three in between the tire smoke. Seriously though, our trucks (03+) don't smoke like the older ones. The only way to really make them smoke is to add more fuel with a chip and injectors. You do that though, you may fry the turbo. Usually at low rpms if I jam the throttle it lets out a nice cloud. 
Some Dodge dealers sell and install Banks products, so you may want to check that out so that you don't void the warranty. As far as what chip to go with, I would look at the Quadzilla, the Edge Juice (the Comp version for the Common Rails), or the BullyDog PowerPup. You may want to add an intake also and straight pipe the exhaust.


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## justme-

The way to get black smoke is run it so rich the fuel doesn't burn competely. So, tune it rich as heck and expect your milage to drop.

Grannying it then highway won;t work on a computer controlled truck (98+).

Seriously, black smoke is BAD and shouldn;t be strived for. That's like wanting 3 MPG.... Black smoke is wasted fuel, which is not only wasted money but wasted power.... think about it. Rigs smoke when they're under heavy load, dumping in lots of fuel but not running fast enough to use it all. You ever see a rig throw black at 70mph?

Do some research at the diesel forums first- dodgeram.com, dieseltruckresource.net, TDR, dodgediesel.net, etc.


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## firstclasslawn

*dodge*

Although I dont have a dodge, I do know a ton about these chips. I would recomend eithor the bully dog or the edge. Bullydog was the new product of the year this year and the edge was the new product of the year last year at the sema show.... both are great. i personally run a bully dog. Talk to your dealer though first. My chevy dealer doesnt care if you chip it, they will still warrenty it. But check with your [email protected]!


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## DBL

justme- said:


> The way to get black smoke is run it so rich the fuel doesn't burn competely. So, tune it rich as heck and expect your milage to drop.
> 
> Grannying it then highway won;t work on a computer controlled truck (98+).
> 
> Seriously, black smoke is BAD and shouldn;t be strived for. That's like wanting 3 MPG.... Black smoke is wasted fuel, which is not only wasted money but wasted power.... think about it. Rigs smoke when they're under heavy load, dumping in lots of fuel but not running fast enough to use it all. You ever see a rig throw black at 70mph?
> 
> Do some research at the diesel forums first- dodgeram.com, dieseltruckresource.net, TDR, dodgediesel.net, etc.


ok this is a good point i just thought it looked really cool


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## crazymike

justme- said:


> The way to get black smoke is run it so rich the fuel doesn't burn competely. So, tune it rich as heck and expect your milage to drop.
> 
> Grannying it then highway won;t work on a computer controlled truck (98+).
> 
> Seriously, black smoke is BAD and shouldn;t be strived for. That's like wanting 3 MPG.... Black smoke is wasted fuel, which is not only wasted money but wasted power.... think about it. Rigs smoke when they're under heavy load, dumping in lots of fuel but not running fast enough to use it all. You ever see a rig throw black at 70mph?
> 
> Do some research at the diesel forums first- dodgeram.com, dieseltruckresource.net, TDR, dodgediesel.net, etc.


My 05 throws black smoke if you granny it then punch it. Not a continuous amount, but a good cloud.


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## exmark1

DBL said:


> tell me more. let me know what one to get and what to do with it


I have a SuperChips programmer for my 2001 Cummins and love it! I bought mine from a local exhaust & auto performance dealer, however I know they are available through Ebay, Jegs, or almost any auto store should have some direction on where to get it from!

They are alot of fun!


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## firstclasslawn

The superchip gives good power numbers, but the edge and the bully dog offer more options and therefore more cost. LCD screens and on the fly power adjustments are both great advatages to the edge and the bully dog!



exmark1 said:


> I have a SuperChips programmer for my 2001 Cummins and love it! I bought mine from a local exhaust & auto performance dealer, however I know they are available through Ebay, Jegs, or almost any auto store should have some direction on where to get it from!
> 
> They are alot of fun!


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## motoxdk24

friend has a 95 ram 6 spd. since its a 12 valve with the mechanical injection pump he goes about 5 mph and shifts into 3rd and accelerates while riding the brake( bogs it) and i swear it blacks out a quarter mile or until he lets off the brake- its an awesome sight, hes also got a 4 inch exhaust. Alls he is doing is dumping in too much fuel and it wont burn ( or compress to combustion). ill try and get some pics of it- its funny when strangers in front of me stop because he blacks out the road-

by the way- you can basically watch your fuel gauge drop 
while you do it ( like 1/2 mpg) <--scarcasm


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## DeereFarmer

I have heard to coat the inner manifolds (or some part of the exhaust) with canola oil! Anybody else hear of this? Sounds kinf of weird to me.


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## Stark_Enterprises

I have Friends in my TDR group down here in CT that can seriously throw black smoke on demand! The other night it was hilarious . My friend turned right at a light and punched it a made ahuge Cloud of black smoke, and coming down from the oppisit direction was some hot head teenager in a rice burner flyin and he turned left into the cloud of smoke and Locked up his breaks at like 30 mph like as if he thought a car had exploded infront of him!!! O man it was the funniest thing i have ever saw i was laughing the whole ride home.


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## justme-

First Time Out said:


> I have heard to coat the inner manifolds (or some part of the exhaust) with canola oil! Anybody else hear of this? Sounds kinf of weird to me.


coat your exhaust in any oil, motor oil, etc and you'll burn it off creating a blue smoke, and a potential fire hazard under the hood...

My 96 stock won't black smoke at all unless it's really cold and I floor it, then there's just a light hint of smoke on the exhaust, but you won;t see it unless you're looking for it. Had no smoke pulling a 10K lbs trailer.

Dodge will void the warranty if you chip it- they have tamper resistat labels on the connectors you need toinsert the chip/programmer into. Since they can;t void for the chip itself, they void if you tamper with/remove the labels which is completely legal.


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## crazymike

They also can tell if there was a chip because most chips leave some sort of footprint on the computer.


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## motoxdk24

its easier to smoke if you have a manual, even easier if you have the cummins (1st and 2nd gen) with the mechanical injection pump. just upshift a gear of two higher and floor it, like i already stated. kina hard with a auto


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## DBL

yeah i talked to a guy and and he also told me with the earlier models that the fuel injection just "dumps" fuel into the engine instead of the newer model has little holes in the injector that pumps less fuel into the system thus a tad quieter and less smokey


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## Cutter1

not true about putting a chip in and getting bad mileage. Mine smokes like you wouldn't believe and I get 18 mpg. Get a small chip so you don't have to worry about exaust temp and it will run better thatn you can imagine, towing and just driving around. DO NOT take it in for service with the chip in it. They will void your warranty. A nice small chip is the edge EZ I have that one stacked with a TST power max. It will make a extra 65 hp and increase your fuel mileage.


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## DBL

they cant track that on the computer for the warrenty also how much will that run me and it will do everythign you say. smoke fuel mileage and more hp


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## NoFearDeere

DBL, you will have to straight pipe your exhaust and get guages for tranny temp., exhaust temp., and turbo boost. I recommend DP Tuner, as thats what is going in my Powerstroke in the spring. I researched alot of different chips and programmers and settled on DP. I believe some companies make "smoker chips" which all that does is make black clouds of smoke. Go to the website, www.dp-tuner.com and they shoudl be able to help you out. They primarily focus on Ford's but should be able to help you out with your Dodge. Good Luck!


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## Cutter1

you don't need guages if you do a edge ez chip. Looking $400-500 for the chip, if you straight pipe the exaust that is real cheap, maybe $100. Air intake is a couple hundred to, it all depends on how much you want to spend. Chip and exaust I would recomend first.


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## NoFearDeere

Cutter1 said:


> you don't need guages if you do a edge ez chip. Looking $400-500 for the chip, if you straight pipe the exaust that is real cheap, maybe $100. Air intake is a couple hundred to, it all depends on how much you want to spend. Chip and exaust I would recomend first.


You dont need guages if you have the LCD screen or some other device to monitor everything. You need something to monitor all the temperatures and boost or you will blow your turbo...among other things.


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## Cutter1

you can't blow the turbo with a 65 hp chip and exaust


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## NoFearDeere

65 hp, no.....my chip will be a 180hp chip w/ 6 settings


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## Cutter1

whats that have to do with what I told him to get for a dodge, not a ford??


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## TEX

*Smoke*

Diesels are only limited by how much fuel and air you can shove into the cylinder. Obviously the right mixture of the 2 has to be acheived for the truck to run smoothly. lots of black out the exhaust is just unburned fuel. Putting too much fuel and not enough air into the cylinder. The trucks now a days are all comp controlled and the chips or programmers you can buy are to maximize the power and performance of your diesel truck. They are made to put the right about amount of fuel and air into the engine for any given situation- hard driving, hauling, etc...while from the factory they are programed to just stay within "safe" boundaries. Alot of people think its cool to blow the black smoke so they modify the injection process a little. very easy on the old 12V dodge cummins not so much on the newer diesels and very very difficult on the new 07 and latter diesels. BUT if you really want the black smoke buy an Edge programmer and the Attitude monitor and set to 4 not 5 and then if you scroll threw the settings on the Attitude monitor there are options for level of "Smoke"youll throw out. Now dont upgrade your turbo, inercooler, or air intake and you will dump in the fuel and starve the engine of air thus.....lots of unburned fuel out the exhaust and your BIG BLACK SMOKE. remember this it is bad for the engine- your valves will be dirty your turbo will try to work harder to push more air bc the comp is telling it to and soot kills diesel engines-long term problems but you will get your smoke.


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## mrbrickman

hey ive heard about one guy who had stacks on a sweet 01' dodge and some sort of aftermarket smoke kit that lets you shoot wads of black smoke when you rev 

anyone heard of this?......it was a 6speed and had overdrive gearvendors and 22.5 alcoas with a 10" airride lift, prettty darn awesome truck...saw it on ebay like 2 years ago maybe some of you guys did too


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## NoFearDeere

^^^^^^^^ Never did see that truck but a buddy of mine has a 2002 Ram 3500 Cummins 6 speed Dually w/stacks...that thing is amazing! Puts my truck to shame!


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## crazymike

the edge kit has a setting for black smoke


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## ProWorkz.com

*More smoke*

Buy a 12 Valve....... 24 valves just dont smoke as much as a 12 valve even with the best box/chip.


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## justme-

crazymike said:


> the edge kit has a setting for black smoke


yeah, it's called "run rich as hell and watch the fuel gage drop"


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## PatrickCampbell

black smoke is over fueling or too little air...... it's not a good thing. it means you are inefficient/wasting fuel.


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## BigDave12768

You want smoke wrap a trash bag around you air cleaner. You are sure to piss off everybody behind you  As for chips. Best bang for the buck is the Quad zxt 65hp and 190lb. It works well and improves fuel mileage right away. It advances the timimg and boost fools the turbo plus adds extra fuel by bringing up the rail pressure


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## SpruceLandscape

I don't understand why some people are talking about a chip that fools a turbo. Last I checked, a turbo is a turbo, nothing more than a pump that is driven by the amount of exhaust that passes through it. The only variable is the amount of boost it is aloud to create which is regulated by a boost controller and a blow off valve. should have nothing to do with the computer... however, if the computer is defueling the engine and adjusting timing, that would affect how much exhaust gas is passing through the turbo unit and inturn limit how much air the turbo is then able to push. your computer can read info from sensors to determine how much the turbo is performing at a certain RPM, but it doesn't acutally CONTROL the unit. At least not on any vehicle that I or anyone I know has owned.


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## BigDave12768

SpruceLandscape said:


> I don't understand why some people are talking about a chip that fools a turbo. Last I checked, a turbo is a turbo, nothing more than a pump that is driven by the amount of exhaust that passes through it. The only variable is the amount of boost it is aloud to create which is regulated by a boost controller and a blow off valve. should have nothing to do with the computer... however, if the computer is defueling the engine and adjusting timing, that would affect how much exhaust gas is passing through the turbo unit and inturn limit how much air the turbo is then able to push. your computer can read info from sensors to determine how much the turbo is performing at a certain RPM, but it doesn't acutally CONTROL the unit. At least not on any vehicle that I or anyone I know has owned.


Well the venicle you own has a turbo controlled by the computer. So go pop open your hood and you will see a wiring harness coming off the turbo. What the PCM controls is the Wastegate thus being able to contol the boost. Welcome to the 21st century. I understand new things are hard for you ta accept. I saw you last post claiming all cars had to be hand cranked from the front.


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## Proscapez LLC

When I was driving Semi's, I use to get big black cloulds when the truck was working.
but after they lowered the sulfur content, I was much less.
If you try running Kerrosine or Offroad fuel it should produce the black smoke you want it to.
As far as Gas I wouldn't have a clue as to how much to add in to just a small tank.
But I also dont think it would help with the smoke.
When I had to cross or run mountains I use to add 2 gallons of gas per tank and they were 80gals tanks. It was good for a little extra power but that was about it.
of course every now and then you would hear it pump thru some gas and boy it was on for a minute.


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## streetsurfin'

justme- said:


> yeah, it's called "run rich as hell and watch the fuel gage drop...."


and the oil get contaminated.


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## SpruceLandscape

I'm not quite old enough to remember the hand cranked cars as apparently you are, however, if you read my last reply a little closer (using those new fangled things called glasses) you will see that I did mention a few other things. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here, just letting some people who might not understand how a turbo works know that it is not technically the turbo itself that is being misled or fooled, just the computer and the information it recieves from various sensors throughout the fuel injection system. =o)


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## BigDave12768

SpruceLandscape said:


> I'm not quite old enough to remember the hand cranked cars as apparently you are, however, if you read my last reply a little closer (using those new fangled things called glasses) you will see that I did mention a few other things. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here, just letting some people who might not understand how a turbo works know that it is not technically the turbo itself that is being misled or fooled, just the computer and the information it recieves from various sensors throughout the fuel injection system. =o)


The new wastegates are computer controlled. So if we took your arguement you could say that an engine is not running with s computers help. Yes the steel parts are moving back and forth by on their own being driven by combustion. But now the computers control almost everything under the hood your CTD even the turbo. So boost fooling is done by changing the signal. Thus the turbo has been fooled to put out more boost


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## ProWorkz.com

*Gauges*

I wanted to comment on gauges for a Dodge Cummins. Before adding any type of mods to a Cummins I would inverst in a pyro, fuel pressure and boost gauge. Trans temp also if you have a automatic.

Pryo gauges are extremely important. Keeping the Exhaust Gast Tempatures below 1350 degrees on CTD will keep your turbo happy. And making sure you EGT's are at or below 300 degrees F when you shut the truck off is very important as well. A tubro with improper lubrication at shutdown will have a very short life. When you shut your truck off your turbo keeps spinning for another 5-8 seconds. During those 5-8 seconds, if the turbo is above 300 degress F the oil returned to the turbo will start to burn and not lubricate the turbo bearings. Heat plus no lubrication on turbo bearings will equal new turbo soon.

Fuel Pressure gauge will keep you posted on how your lift pump and injection pump are doing. A $125.00 fuel pressure gauge could save you thousands.

A boost gauge also helps you mointor you engines performance.

Their are a lot of people who own Dodge Cummins trucks that do not have gauges installed and have not had any issues related to turbo issues or fuel pressure problems. But when you starting modding you truck like I have. Gauges are a cheap insurance to keep you motor running its best with little down time.....

Just my oppinion......

Dave


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## DBL

i ahve the boost gauge and mines a 6 spd probably just going to look into a chip


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## Green Grass

DBL;289712 said:


> how do i get my cummins 6spd to throw some thick black smoke???


i tell you what in stead of throwing balck smoke you can just send me money cause that is all you would be doing. If your truck is running right it will not smoke a lot maybe just a little on cold start


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## DBL

Green Grass;330415 said:


> you can just send me money


or not


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## Green Grass

DBL;330432 said:


> or not


i am a cummings tech if your truck is smoking then you are throwing money out the tail pipe but the easiest way to make the smoke is to chip the truck


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## DBL

yeah i wasnt trying to be an @$$ about it sorry if it came off like that i know theyre not supposed to do that but they look cool


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## speedy

Remove or cut the hose to the intercooler. No power, but PLENTY of smoke!! tymusic


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## Green Grass

DBL;330441 said:


> yeah i wasnt trying to be an @$$ about it sorry if it came off like that i know theyre not supposed to do that but they look cool


hey i know you are not trying to be an @$$ about it and everyone that buys a new ram with a diesel ask us how to make the black somke and we say well it is a waste of money doing that but you need to chip it and yep that voids warrenty so go right ahead


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## dirt digger

DBL;330441 said:


> yeah i wasnt trying to be an @$$ about it sorry if it came off like that i know theyre not supposed to do that but they look cool


tom why do you have to be an "@$$" to everyone?...haha, you ever give Larry a call?


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## DBL

yeah but he hasnt called back ill call again tomorrow


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## KLC99

Done anything yet Tom?
You will usually blow out some black smoke with a chip/injectors/etc. while the turbo is spooling up. The additional fueling at lower boost levels does produce smoke, but it also spools up the turbo faster, giving you more power at lower rpm. That smoke is acceptable and "healthy". Your '03 6-speed combination is highly desireable and will make some real power. Good luck with it.

Green Grass,
I think it was a typo but you meant to say that you're a "Cummins" tech, not "cummings" right?


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## kysnowman

This has got to be the most ignorant threads I've heard on here. ( How to make black smoke). Why the hell would you want to make black smoke. Sounds like a little kid talking. I think I would be more interested on making money than throwing it out the tail pipe.
Kids will be kids.


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## DBL

KLC99;362114 said:


> Done anything yet Tom?
> You will usually blow out some black smoke with a chip/injectors/etc. while the turbo is spooling up. The additional fueling at lower boost levels does produce smoke, but it also spools up the turbo faster, giving you more power at lower rpm. That smoke is acceptable and "healthy". Your '03 6-speed combination is highly desireable and will make some real power. Good luck with it.
> 
> Green Grass,
> I think it was a typo but you meant to say that you're a "Cummins" tech, not "cummings" right?


nope i want to though i just have other things to spend money on and do right now...but its on my list


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## NoFearDeere

Green Grass;330440 said:


> i am a cummings tech if your truck is smoking then you are throwing money out the tail pipe but the easiest way to make the smoke is to chip the truck


KLC99, I was going to call him out on that....if your a CUMMINS technician, than why do you spell it Cummings?

I really want to get my truck done but I just had to have that 62" TV....


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## ProSeasons

Jeez, I'm glad I found this thread. Do NOT get your diesel modification advice from ANY Cummins, or 'Cummings' Techs. They are factory trained. Nor should you get it from any Ford or Chevy diesel enthusiast. These V-8 engines are based on big block gasser technology. The 5.9 and new 6.7 Cummins B is a smaller, direct copy of a bigger 855 cubic inch linehaul OTR engine. I took a pulling video into the Cummins shop here and all of their collective jaws dropped when I showed them the world's most powerful diesel pick up truck shooting black smoke over 100 feet into the air from it's 3 staged turbochargers. 215 psi of boost at 1400 horsepower from a B series Cummins. There is also a P-7100 pumped Cummins in the 8 second range in the quarter mile and is approaching the 7 second milestone. This engine is amazing.

Black smoke is akin to spinning your rear tires in our hot rod, gasser days. It is a sign of power. I have the muscle and torque on tap if I need it. A Common Rail CP-3 Dodge Cummins won't go around and puke black smoke all the time. This is illegal. But the occasional puff is fun.

To answer the original question, on the Common Rail Dodge Cummins built from '03 to present, requires a simple injector change.

Don M's F-1 Mach 3s or 4s would retain all of your trucks present driving manners AND give a healthy puff if you should stomp on the skinny pedal.


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## kysnowman

The ignorant thread continues!
Yeah a puff of black smoke is fun? Maybe I'm missing out, what is so fun or cool about blowing black smoke out the tail pipe. Who ever is behind you I'm sure thinks somethings wrong with your vehicle or your a degenerat. 
SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN?


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## kysnowman

Now I've figured it out, a little kid started this thread. Yeah that sounds about right what a kid would be thinking about. I was hoping there wasn't a buch of grown men thinking blowing black smoke is cool.


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## DBL

kysnowman;367270 said:


> Now I've figured it out, a little kid started this thread. Yeah that sounds about right what a kid would be thinking about. I was hoping there wasn't a buch of grown men thinking blowing black smoke is cool.


exactly a little kid


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## loyboy

I have an 01' cummins and I pull with a lot. It doesn't smoke hardly at all with a load and I DON'T WANT IT TOWhats the point. It's just stupid to try to make it smoke imo


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## kysnowman

Finally somebody talking reasonable! Congrats to you loyboy.
Where I live that's all people drive is diesels, they got there stacks and there 5" pipes throwing black smoke every where. I guess they think its cool to because they keep doing it. 
Most people put more performance in there trucks to throw the black smoke not because they haul alot and need the extra hp. When I get 500K miles out of mine and you see alot of these trucks that are junk after 100-150k miles because it's cool to tear up there trucks to throw black smoke I will be laughing.
People can spend there money the way they want it, but it makes no sense to do that stuff to expensive trucks like everybody driving.
Don't get me wrong it's neat to go to the fair and watch these trucks pull sleds but on the street?


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## loyboy

I don't have the extra money lying around to go buy another 30k+ truck 'cause I tore up the old one trying to look cool!payup


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## KLC99

KY and Lowboy, 
Mild mods don't hurt these motors. The main side effect (other than power increase) is increased fuel economy.

Kysnowman, why so aggressive?


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## ProSeasons

KY, if you think we're dumb for that, your'e really gonna hate this.


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## blk90s13

disconnect the map sensor and thank me later

i have an edge comp chip and it wont smoke that much no matter how much load i put on it

this is not my truck but thats what happens with map sensor off 
http://www.frontiernet.net/~mopar1973man/videos/smoke.wmv


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## dodgeguy99

ProSeasons;367618 said:


> KY, if you think we're dumb for that, your'e really gonna hate this.


damn that is awesome


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## loyboy

I'm not bashing you guys, It just doesn't make sense to me.If you enjoy it, more power to ya! So much for air qaulity!


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## kysnowman

I just don't no why everybody is so intrigued with the black smoke thing. Yeah mild horse power increases are alright everybody would like that. But when everybody is out to throw black smoke, just to see it out your rear view mirror, that's pointless.
That picture is cool, now I do enjoy watching the trucks pull the sled's and watching all the smoke, but doing that to everybodies daily driver is goofy.


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## kysnowman

Pro your a hoosier everything is starting to become more clear.


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## Yaz

DBL.. Here is some advise...Get on a good forum the specializes in Cummins and read you butt off. You'll find the advantages and disadvantages of each programmer. You'll see that you can make awesome power cheep, but trust me, if you abuse it you'll be spending allot of money. 

First things first, if you want to tune and be safe, be easy on your stuff...

Gages are a must to see exhaust temps and boost.
Exhaust system will get the hot gases out quicker, that's why guys go 4 or even 5" exhaust.
Banks kits are expensive and only make moderate power, they offer bigger inter-coolers to keep EGT's down and keep you towing longer with out temps rising as quick.

If you tune High HP and tow, your egt's will climb fast and you can/will fry the turbo up not to mention most guys that get hooked on the power will abuse it and fry the tranys.. yup all of them Ford, Dodge and even the Allison will break adding over 100HP and that's what you can do very easily when you dump in fuel to make your smoke.
Some tunes make more smoke than others, and some guys swear they over fuel ..it's all opinion. Some increase fuel rail pressure and others increase timing and rattle more.

ECM tuners (Bullydog/PPE/etc) will also eliminate speed limiters and adjust for bigger tire size, others than plug into your fuel rail harness like the Edge will not. some are Internet upgradeable and some have to be sent back to the factory for upgrades. Dealers come out with new software to download in your truck all the time and mess up the programmers so they must be removed when taken to the dealers. The programmers sometimes will not reload unless new upgrades are entered into them. I would suggest a Internet upgradeable unit for that reason.

And don't believe anyone or dealer that says they are OK to use buy your manufacturer. The mfg will void any warranty when you add them. It's just some dealers will turn their cheek and not see them others will report you. I would suggest being careful and remove it before you go to a dealer if you get one.

Good luck and happy tire frying and smoking out the roads. 
Yaz


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## ProSeasons

Yeah, I'm a Hoosier! How 'bout them Colts? 

KY and loyboy, I understand you guys don't get it and that's fine. I'm certain there are things you guys are into that some of us 'just don't get' either.

I'll try to explain, and you can read this if you truly are interested. If not, thats fine, too. Then you can just ignore this thread.

Diesel smoke is a show of vehicular muscle. I liken it to leaving black marks in the street from sudden acceleration in an old 70's muscle car with a big block. And if you guys say you have never done that in your lives, then your just a liar. But isn't that equally stupid to do? But we have all done it. Were men, we can't help it. We all like our toys and gadjets. Do we all plow snow for just the money? There's more money to be made elsewhere. Nope, in truth, we all like to play with our 'toys'. From Zero Turn powerful lawnmowers to V- Plows and Spreaders. Why is the Blizzard so popular? "Cause of those extenda a wing dealies on 'em! Gadjets!

I have a vehicle in my driveway right now that defies logic. I raced a Mustang Cobra for a quarter mile and he won but I was right beside him the whole time. The look on his face as his girlfriend was laughing at him was pricless! I can go to the Depot and pic up a ton of shingles. I can tow a 16000 pound fifth wheel up a mountain at 65 mph with an EGT reading of 1000 PRE TURBO! And I can hook a snowplow to it and plow all night long. And this thing will go 250,000 miles between rebuilds and gets 21 mpg and 14 pulling a trailer! Maintainance? The six speed manuel, twin (staged) turbos and bypass oil filter makes this thing maintainance free! Show me another vehicle type that can do all that. You can't. Am I biased toward diesel pick ups? Yep. Ford, Dodge or Chevy. I'll take any of 'em. I run around using about 190 hp on average. My truck is capable of 550 hp, IF I pour the fuel to it. I don't drive around with the pedal stomped all the time. I roll into the throttle nice and easy. No smoke.

But sometimes......A puff or two aint gonna kill 'ya. Shoot, an F-18 Super Hornet will put more Nox into the atmosphere with ONE carrier launch than 7 OTR trucks do in eight months of normal operation. Nox (Greenhouse Gas) is the villian of diesel exhaust, NOT soot, which falls to the ground and becomes soil. Soot is just ash. A volcano will pump billions of tons of this stuff into the sky. Look up, where is it? We're standing on it!
Nox forms in diesel exhaust from low operating temparature! EGR diesels are Greenhouse Gas factories! Raise your combustion temps by raising your manifold pressure! Catapillar and International know the score. Add a turbo to increase manifold pressure. The secret of staged turbochargers is that they are both spinning at HALF rated RPM and making DOUBLE the boost rather than one spinning itself to death raising boost OUT of it's mapwidth. The boost psi is up but it's inefficient, hot charge air. Hot air? Low in oxygen, right? The MAP sensor sees the psi but the IAT is off the upper end of its range. Puts in max fuel. The temp in the combustion chamber is good BUT THERES NO OXYGEN for a complete burn!


Nox in the atmosphere. The EPA is putting it there. Rant over.


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## ProSeasons

kysnowman;367722 said:


> Pro your a hoosier everything is starting to become more clear.


Not with all the smoke in the air!


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## SpruceLandscape

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! PROSEASONS! I haven't seen a good 'ol fashioned rant like that since my thread I"VE COME TO THIS CONCLUSION lol. feels good don't it? heh


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## stangman35

buy a bully dog triple dog downloader,download the crazy larry upgrade = smoke ,21mpg and low 14's in the [email protected]

Best money spent,upgrades online for free also


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## ProSeasons

SpruceLandscape;368111 said:


> LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! PROSEASONS! I haven't seen a good 'ol fashioned rant like that since my thread I"VE COME TO THIS CONCLUSION lol. feels good don't it? heh


Jeez, Spruce, I went off on a tear, didn't I? Sorry, the EPA makes my butt itch. I'm all for cleaning up the atmosphere, but do it across the board. Don't just pick on the consumer.
Look up the Nox PPM of a giant GE Jet turbine. It burns 'oil' too.

Man Spruce, there I go again......

DBL, you have a first generation CP-3 injection pump with a common rail pressure AVERAGE of 21000 psi. Enough fuel pressure for 750 horsepower.

All you need is an injector change.


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## UglyTruck

GEEEEEZ PRO......

I thought that my computer logged me onto the wrong site.... I am used to seeing threads like this "back home" http://dodgetruckworld.tenmagazines.com/forums/forum.ten-id-522-n-diesel_engines

If you are not a member here yet then come join the family....


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## ProSeasons

Thanks Ugly!

That site is cool!


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## Evan528

I only read the first couple pages of posts....and this might seem like a dumb question to you but...... Why in the world would you want black smoke coming out of your truck???


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## dodgeguy99

Evan528;369235 said:


> I only read the first couple pages of posts....and this might seem like a dumb question to you but...... Why in the world would you want black smoke coming out of your truck???


because it looks bad a$$


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## NoFearDeere

ProSeasons, can we see some pictures of your truck? I'm dying to look at it! As for me, if you cant put a DIESEL engine in it, it's not a truck!


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## kysnowman

because its' so cool! NOT!


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## Evan528

dodgeguy99;369328 said:


> because it looks bad a$$


Interesting....If a truck drove past me with black smoke pooring out of it I would just assume there was something wrong with the truck and they were heading to the mechanic..... This is the first ive ever heard of people making mods to make there truck smoke.


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## Oshkosh

*In my old state..*

Where I used to live in Mass the State Police would take notice with excessive smoke.Diesels have a smoke test, I think it is every other year here as part of emissions and if the sensor cannot see threw the smoke it doesn't pass..
I had one of my trucks turned up a bit and barely got by.I mean my pump had had an issue.lol But I had issues because I was making more power not trying to be funny...


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## justme-

Bingo- Mass has the countries toughest diesel emissions test- infact many diesel vehicles cannot be registered or sold here. No HO Cummins Dodges!

They don;t test for NOX, they test for exhaust opacity- that means the amount of particulate in your exhaust. It's the SOOT, the Ash that "falls harmlessly to the ground and becomes soil" they object to since it collects on all surfaces, contaminating the water, ground, etc and adding sulpheric acidic content to things...... ever see a city transit bus....ever see a city transit bus terminal?!?! Soot is the culprit there.....

As Oshkosh points out, the State Police can and do stop and ticket diesel's blowing excessive smoke on the roads. You tear off around a corner billowing smoke, you get a ticket if a cop sees it.

I swear it's a farm boy attitude that all things diesel have to billow smoke to be cool.... 

If you're smoking you're wasting fuel- period. There is a trade off in high horsepower applications where you need to waste a certain amount of fuel at low rpm to achieve peak at higher, but unless you're hauling serious weight (come on- even Semi's don't billow unless something's wrong!) it's unnecessary.

As to the advice on not trusting Cummins or Ford/Chevy enthuesiastis- a diesel operates on principles discovered by Otto Diesel, doesn;t matter if it's a V or an inline block. Ford uses and has used IH engines for over 20 years- I think they know a thing or two about diesels. Chevy did use the 350 gas engin as a basis for some diesel engines in the 1980's, but they do own Detroit Diesel (from the beginning), had a share in Caterpillar, and use some pretty heavy stuff.

Just because you're local Cummins shop which you don;t specify if it was cummins corporate or some diesel truck shop may be ignorant doesn;t mean being factory trained is bad.

Wanna find GOOD reliable info on Dodge diesel's ask at dieseltruck.com, look at dodgeram.org, JOIN The Turbo Diesel Regestry (TDR), read dieselram.net.... 
Ford and GM guys have their own issues with their diesel engines too.


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## ProSeasons

justme-,

You don't anything about high performance diesels. I'm not trying to insult you, it's just a fact. We had an engine for a customer's puller on a dyno with so much flow work on it was ridiculous. Stage 3 ported head, custom intake manifold, swirl inducer in the flame deck. It was stupid. That thing was ICE cold. It burned so clean, it was 2011 emissions compliant at 1230 degrees pre turbo (the first turbo, anyway) It did NOT smoke, at low end, mid range, top end, NOTHING. Exhaust so clean, you would let your kid breathe it, I promise you. The dude didn't want it to smoke (He was from Nor California).

The thing was gutless. The accelerator was like stepping on a marshmallow. I don't know if it was the computer program (Off shore racing software) or the injection pump (cp-3 mod) or the timing, or what it was. The thing wasn't getting any fuel. It only topped out at 762 hp. No matter WHAT the guy did. He threw so much money at it SHOULD have EASILY done 1200 hp, it flowed that much air.

High performance diesels smoke sometimes. It's not wasted fuel. We thought it was too, but it isn't. If you inject raw fuel into an exhaust manifold at an operating temperature of around 2000 degrees F and 6000 rpm, all the soot burns away, (Believe it or not, actually an EPA technique for CLEANING an exhaust particulate filter!) Those busses you see aren't polluting, they're just dirty.

Don't get your high performance diesel advice from Ford, or Chevy, they employ big block gasser technology in their 'diesels'. Go to a factory Cummins trained tech, ask him if the 13 to 1 low compression ratio piston will fit in the KTA 450 block. He will laugh in your face. He will say the pistons not only don't fit, the engine will not even start, let alone run. They fit. And they will turn your KTA 450 hp engine to an 800 hp monster with a fuel pump recalibration and a timing and injector change. V or inline the same? Hardly. The only V's that are efficient are in hulls or locomotives or gen sets and SOME giant Earth moving equipment, etc... Check the bore vs stroke on those bad boys. Nice. Vs do well in a constant RPM range. Inlines deliver more torque. Simple physics. Why burn diesel fuel ,anyway? Right?

I never said CONSTANTLY blowing smoke was cool. I never said I didn't want cleaner air. Tractor trailers that billow smoke under load have nothing wrong with them, they're just working hard. That's what happens when you burn oil at around 1800 degrees F.

And finally, I like Ford and Chevy trucks. I just would never build a high performance diesel out of their powerplants. Why give someone else a headstart? If I was building a drag racer, I would NEVER use a Cummins, that would be stupid. Physics.Grab yourself a Duramax Chevy and take it to Gale Banks in Azusa, CA. Building a puller? Drive your Dodge Cummins to Enterprise Engine in Thornville, OH or Schied Diesel in Laffayette, IN. Wanna compete in the East and West Coast diesel Challenges for best all around diesel pick up? Take your new Ford 6.4 Twin Turbo Powerstroke and put an Allison automatic tranny behind it. Awesome.

Want me to talk like a tree hugger? The 'new ' EPA emission engines are, well...********. They only get around 4.5 MPG because of all the backpressure they create. Not have. Not suffer with. Create They CREATE backpressure. They do this so they don't smoke. It slows them down. An efficient OTR diesel gets up to 7.5 MPG. Why? They don't make backpressure! 

This alone would save 36,350,000,000 gallons of diesel fuel a year.


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## Eclipse

ProSeasons;371145 said:


> We had an engine for a customer's puller on a dyno with so much flow work on it was ridiculous. Stage 3 ported head, custom intake manifold, swirl inducer in the flame deck. It was stupid. That thing was ICE cold. It burned so clean, it was 2011 emissions compliant at 1230 degrees pre turbo (the first turbo, anyway) It did NOT smoke, at low end, mid range, top end, NOTHING. Exhaust so clean, you would let your kid breathe it, I promise you. The dude didn't want it to smoke (He was from Nor California).
> 
> The thing was gutless. The accelerator was like stepping on a marshmallow. I don't know if it was the computer program (Off shore racing software) or the injection pump (cp-3 mod) or the timing, or what it was. The thing wasn't getting any fuel. It only topped out at 762 hp. No matter WHAT the guy did. He threw so much money at it SHOULD have EASILY done 1200 hp, it flowed that much air.
> 
> High performance diesels smoke sometimes. It's not wasted fuel. We thought it was too, but it isn't. If you inject raw fuel into an exhaust manifold at an operating temperature of around 2000 degrees F and 6000 rpm, all the soot burns away, (Believe it or not, actually an EPA technique for CLEANING an exhaust particulate filter!) Those busses you see aren't polluting, they're just dirty.


I'm not sure I understand the point of this story? We both know a properly setup 762HP truck will be pretty damn quick. Off-Shore Racing software? It doesn't sound like that would be very accurate for a lower, variable RPM street driven engine.

Personally I like to see big, smoke free HP numbers out of a diesel. Dirty HP is easier and it doesn't impress me as much anymore (I'm not talking huge HP like the top sled pulling truck but the top HP ranges for street driven trucks). T each his own I guess.


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## Jay brown

i don't get the smoke either.....it's kinda like a 60 year old man driving a corvette, needs attention to make ones self feel better about something that they are lacking...... today i saw a ford ranger pos with dual chrome 6 inch stacks behind the cab. WTF unless you pull around a livestock trailer loose the stacks. if you want stacks buy a big boy truck.


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## g.moore

I run a 96 Ram 12V. With the pump turned down so there is no smoke the pedal never leaves the floor and I get about 17MPG, it has no power at all. With the pump turned up all the way I get consistent thick black smoke, cruise at 75MPH with the pedal down about 1/2" and get a solid 20MPG. Next step is a #0 torque plate, a 4K GSK, 5" exhaust and the stack. I want the stack simply so I can hear that 360CID diesel rattle all that much louder in the cab, if I could get away with it I'd run a zoomie pipe out the hood. The muffler is already gone and it's helped but I still want more of that rattle.


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## merrimacmill

The only time I find black smoke useful is when I have some jerk (the other day it was a porche SUV) tail gate me for about 10 miles, then I drive the on ramp to the highway at about 15 mph then right when that turn is finished I slam it it get it to about 2700 rpm and pour the black smoke all over the place. That usually stops the tailgaters. HAH.

I have no mods to my duramax at all. So I've found black smoke depends on weather/temp, and what gears the transmission is shifting to.


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## BigDave12768

justme-;370877 said:


> Bingo- Mass has the countries toughest diesel emissions test- infact many diesel vehicles cannot be registered or sold here. No HO Cummins Dodges!
> 
> They don;t test for NOX, they test for exhaust opacity- that means the amount of particulate in your exhaust. It's the SOOT, the Ash that "falls harmlessly to the ground and becomes soil" they object to since it collects on all surfaces, contaminating the water, ground, etc and adding sulpheric acidic content to things...... ever see a city transit bus....ever see a city transit bus terminal?!?! Soot is the culprit there.....
> 
> As Oshkosh points out, the State Police can and do stop and ticket diesel's blowing excessive smoke on the roads. You tear off around a corner billowing smoke, you get a ticket if a cop sees it.
> 
> I swear it's a farm boy attitude that all things diesel have to billow smoke to be cool....
> 
> If you're smoking you're wasting fuel- period. There is a trade off in high horsepower applications where you need to waste a certain amount of fuel at low rpm to achieve peak at higher, but unless you're hauling serious weight (come on- even Semi's don't billow unless something's wrong!) it's unnecessary.
> 
> As to the advice on not trusting Cummins or Ford/Chevy enthuesiastis- a diesel operates on principles discovered by Otto Diesel, doesn;t matter if it's a V or an inline block. Ford uses and has used IH engines for over 20 years- I think they know a thing or two about diesels. Chevy did use the 350 gas engin as a basis for some diesel engines in the 1980's, but they do own Detroit Diesel (from the beginning), had a share in Caterpillar, and use some pretty heavy stuff.
> 
> Just because you're local Cummins shop which you don;t specify if it was cummins corporate or some diesel truck shop may be ignorant doesn;t mean being factory trained is bad.
> 
> Wanna find GOOD reliable info on Dodge diesel's ask at dieseltruck.com, look at dodgeram.org, JOIN The Turbo Diesel Regestry (TDR), read dieselram.net....
> Ford and GM guys have their own issues with their diesel engines too.


UMMM you are about 4 years behind on your info. In 2003 The Dodge HO with 305Hp was not Sold in MA/ME/CA you could only get the 235hp version of the motor. But as of 1/1/04 the put converotrs on them and sell the 325/610 motor to all states. As for smoking I have a programmer and can adjust it to make it smoke like crazy or not at all. And with this programers you can lower the hp also to pass emmision tests. Maybe you should TDR and get caught up on diesels


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## JohnnyU

I get a kick out of how many people are getting so bent out of shape over this.


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## heather lawn spray

SnoFarmer;289715 said:


> Put a heavy load on it, Make it bog down.
> or Waite until it is really cold out and go start it up with out pre heating it. lol


Had to start the John Deere the other day, summer engine, no block heater


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## SnoFarmer

heather lawn spray;432672 said:


> Had to start the John Deere the other day, summer engine, no block heater


Sooo,,,,, how did that go?
Anyone think it was on fire from the cloud?


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## heather lawn spray

SnoFarmer;432845 said:


> Sooo,,,,, how did that go?
> Anyone think it was on fire from the cloud?


naaa it was only in the yard


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