# Does anyone get bothered by DOT???



## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

Hey, do any of you guys using spreaders and plows on half tons or 3/4 tons get stopped by DOT. I have a dump insert in my 2500 HD and want to put a spreader in it and a V plow and Im a little concerned about being bothered by DOT. With a full spreader I would surely be over, as many other people I see all over the place doing snow and ice seem to be.


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## LTL (Jan 13, 2008)

The really must not have anything else better to do.


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## bluerage94 (Dec 24, 2004)

You would be over weight, but dot rarely stops small trucks. I guess you would be the first.


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## russ130 (Oct 29, 2002)

I doubt it unless you have commercial tags and even then your truck is too small for them to worry about. You don't pay fuel taxes or have your vehicle inspected by DOT so they most likely could care less what you do.


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## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

good, thanks


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## oldmankent (Mar 2, 2001)

I would take the dump insert out and then put in the vbox. Your truck will be a lot happier in the long run if you don't overload the axle


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## snow tender (Nov 30, 2008)

I don't know of anyone bothered yet. There has been some talk about having your rear plate covered. If you have everything else in order you will probable be fine


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

If you are a commercial vehicle (and if you are plowing for money, you are), you can be pulled into a DOT inspection station.
Typically (most states), you don't have to stop at the scales, but those temporary DOT inspection stations they like to pull on the side of the highway, those you do.

BUT

I highly doubt they are going to set up a temporary inspection station in a snowstorm.

Of course, if you are overweight and get in an accident, then, there might be problems. Just saying.


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## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

right, i should probably actually have DOT numbers but i never hit the highway, seriously, never, and it seems if you follow every stupid little rule you'll be flat broke.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

bluerage94;689257 said:


> You would be over weight, but dot rarely stops small trucks. I guess you would be the first.


yeah i see V box inserts in F150s! i think we overload the crap out of ours with like 30+ bags of 50lbs salt and a 800lb tailgate spreader, snow blower, calcium and walk behind spreaders.

Even the boss plows we use are technically 30-50lbs too heavy for the fronts. I see 1 ton trucks though sagged down so much in the back their back tires are ready to blow out, eeek!


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

It's not about how much weight you have on your rig...

It's about how much weight your rig is rated to carry..

If your GVWR is over 10,000 pounds you must have a DOT number, fire ext, triangles, brake controller(if pulling trailer) trailer brakes...etc

Your 2500hd's GVWR is under 10,000 pounds...probably closer to 9000. So unless your pulling a trailer, your good..

some 3/4 and 1tons are rated over 10k, and If your getting paid, you must need a DOT number.

I've been pulled over by DOT a couple of times and this is my understanding.


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

Here in RI DOT's really cracking down. Over 10M GVW (full or empty) you need DOT #s, medical card, log book if you're traveling over 100 miles, and all the little do dads like bulbs, fuses, warning triangles etc. 

A friends shop bought a new chevy 3500 stake body and was stopped on the third day they had it. They immediately got the DOT #s on and it's been stopped 4 more times. DOT finally put a sticker on it after the 3rd stop and it still got stopped 2 more times. 

They are also gunning for trailers without inspection stickers and if you have a trailer registered for over 10M GVW you better have a CDL-A licence. Even with 5th wheel RVs over 10M #s that were ignored before now require the right licence. 

Gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling how our government protects us from ourselves....

That's why my F450 and gooseneck 14,400GVW trailer are for sale.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

unimogr;689786 said:


> if you have a trailer registered for over 10M GVW you better have a CDL-A licence. .


that trailer does Not require a class A CDL


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

here in il, a class d licence is good for 16000. i have never been stopped by dot. i have been pulled over in a 3500 d-max pulling a 20,000 5th wheel and the cop didnt say anything but your brake light is out, but being young, if dot stopped me then they might not have been to happy.


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## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

DOT not going to be running after trucks in a snow storm....

if you running over loaded every day get a bigger truck, or haul smaller loads


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

the new boss 92;689821 said:


> here in il, a class d licence is good for 16000. i have never been stopped by dot. i have been pulled over in a 3500 d-max pulling a 20,000 5th wheel and the cop didnt say anything but your brake light is out, but being young, if dot stopped me then they might not have been to happy.


Mark O......................


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

Just wanted to amend my post a little above. You can NOT need USDOT numbers (depends on state and weight) and still be a commercial vehicle.

Any vehicle with signs/logo's on the sides is pretty much a commercial vehicle, no matter what it weighs. If you are using it for money off your own property, you are a commercial vehicle. motorcycle on up.

How likely is it that you get pulled over into an inspection station? dunno, depends on your luck and route or so. (me, I get pulled at least once a year, 4 times this year!!! )

How likely is it in a snowstorm? Pretty much zero . I know I'm overweight when plowing, I'm not worried about it. I dont' think they are either, most cops (not all) realize it's a snow emergency

But spring/summer/fall, the chances go up.

Having the emergency triangles and a fire extinquisher is probably isnt' a bad idea anyway. The rest of it, they are mostly looking for lights and brakes that don't work and wrong or missing plates (money!!!). All of which are things you should probably have working or correct anyway. (despite the fact it's mostly about the money, in this ONE case it is about safety)

remember, every little thing they find, a. It's at least $100 per little thing, and b. they can put you out of service for a lot of these things. (go sit over there til you get fixed, if you don't get it fixed by the end of the day, it's impounded).

But in a snowstorm? It's not going to happen.


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## Jim Karns (Nov 26, 2007)

Greetings,
The DOT here in Connecticut are pulling over small (3/4 ton) trucks. The governor has pulled out all the stops to make our lives miserable - she hates trucks! If you have a dump insert, plow and sander - you're probably close to max without sand. Add a ton+ of wet salt/sand and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ They are pulling over LOADED trucks and scaling them....I don't know what the fines are elsewhere - but here they border on brutal. Not only a fine but the towing and the points on the dot number!!! 
Watch the weights......It's just my .02 but I think it's cheaper to run a bigger truck.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

I've heard (not myself, but 3 different people) that overweight fines are BRUTAL

Basically $1 per POUND overweight.

and, you're out of service til you get it down to the right weight
and you can't dump it on the side of the road.


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

_Quote:
Originally Posted by unimogr 
if you have a trailer registered for over 10M GVW you better have a CDL-A licence. ._



> that trailer does Not require a class A CDL


Really? I'm sitting here reading the back of my licence and it states:
CDL Class B Single (truck) greater than 26,000# / Tow Less than 10,000#

Here's an excerpt from the Unimog mailing list:
In the past, you needed an endorsement on your class C, but they changed the
requirements to a Class A for vehicles over 26,000 GCWR, and dropped the
requirement for those vehicles under 26,000 GCWR. Please notice the main
difference, 26,000 GCWR means 26,000lbs Gross Combined Weight Rating. That
is the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) of the tow vehicle plus the GVWR
of the trailer, so it does not matter if the truck or trailer is running
empty. *Also any trailer that is rated 10,000lbs or over (non RV trailer)
requires the driver to have a valid Class A CDL (this is also a Federal
requirement, all states have the same requirements for CDL now.) You cannot
tow any tag along trailer over 10,000lbs (RV or otherwise) without a Class A
CDL. *You can tow up to 15,000lbs of 5th wheel RV trailer with an
endorsement for your Class C license. But if you have horses in that
trailer, you must have a Class A CDL. Also if your hitch is a gooseneck and
not a 5th wheel style, you need a CDL for anything 10,000lbs and over.

A non commercial Class A license is only for towing 5th wheel RV trailers
with over 15,000 lb GVWR. You cannot use a Non Commercial CDL to tow
anything other than a 5th wheel RV!!!!!

It takes a Non Commercial Class A or Class B license to drive a 40 foot
motorhome, you are exempt up to 39' 11". The CHP has started to enforce this
law since last year, previously, I was able to drive my 43' Wanderlodge on a
Class C not any more.

Now a friend of mine was stopped by CHP in CA and here's what he was driving:

1 Ton Dodge 3500, hauling an EMPTY 14,000 GVW 25' gooseneck on a class C.
The final tally after all 18 infractions were added up totaled about $9600.

First and foremost:

No Commercial CDL
No Motor Carrier Permit
No Logbook
No Medical
No Stickers

Etc.,etc. What is amazing as I had been towing the same setup for the last
8 years. Ignorance means nothing.......

And to Jim in Connecticut, I stopped running my trailer in CT a few years ago due to the stories about your DOT.


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

I agree with all of the facts listed above..................but don't sat they will NOT mess with you during a snow storm. THEY WILL. Last year, now this is landscapers etc, many guys were getting hit being overloaded with salt around here. This is at night, in the middle of a snow storm. It's BS, but they do it. Bear in mind that DOT has control over the streets and will do what they want, when they want. A buddie of mine just (before the snow) got slapped with 9 violations on a previously inspected DOT'd truck. From baskets in the beds of trucks as not secure load, to Med cards, flares instead of triangles, cdl's, the basics. He got one for not having a cdl/chouffer license and having a passenger in the seat. 

You'll probably never get pinched for salt, etc. But bear in mind, they can be pricks if they want to be.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

unimogr;690418 said:


> _Quote:
> Originally Posted by unimogr
> if you have a trailer registered for over 10M GVW you better have a CDL-A licence. ._
> 
> ...


it doesnt matter if you are empty or not

it is based on GVWR, licensed weight or actual weight


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## Four Seasons (Jan 7, 2008)

seem's our country is really taking care of us these day's...


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## hinikersnowplow (Jan 23, 2007)

i have a dumptruck with 26,000 pound plates and 20,000 pound trailer plates with backhoe on it . no dot numbers on it but business is on truck with last name and phone number . never been pulled over by D.O.T. wanna know why oprated with farm plates . hehe


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## fci (Sep 7, 2008)

A few years ago DOT was messing with trucks with landscape trailers. But I haven't seen any small trucks stopped with snow equipment. But what I would do is beef up your suspenion so you look lighter than you are. and you can go to motor vehicle administration and get a dot health paper work and have you doctor fill it out . If you are over 10,000# . Buy the way DOT # are free


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

I heard that guys were getting pulled over last year after an ice storm. I have my 97 registered for 18,000 pounds to cover my dump trailer. I could never put the truck alone over that.


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## shepoutside (Apr 6, 2004)

Around here, they have been pulling us over, not during storms, yet anyway, and using portable scales, checking the trucks. Many have been over-weight on the front end. They been hassling us over License plate location on the front too, as that's the plate that has the stickers on them, and they need to be visible.


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

> If the trailer is over 10k then you would need a class A(if the combe vehicle is over 26k) but the statement of needing class A simply because the trailer is over 10k is incorrect


So with an 8600 GVW 3/4 ton pickup I can legally tow up to a 17,399# trailer?

Based on what the president of the RI Truckers Assoc. told me I need a CDL-A for my truck and trailer. Yes, it's over 26,000 GCWR but my CDL-B licence states no trailers greater than 10,000# GVW. My friends CDL-A states trailers greater than 10,000# GVW.

Maybe you're correct and I can tow with a lighter truck legally but I can't get around what my licence says.

A few helpful web links:

You can apply for a DOT number and get the medical card form on line.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/forms/usdot/Dotno.htm 
https://li-public.fmcsa.dot.gov/LIVIEW/PKG_REGISTRATION.prc_option


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Unimog, read this instead of the back of your license it is clearer here



Class A:

For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 pounds PROVIDED the GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of the towed vehicle(s) is more than 10,000 pounds.

Class B:

For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any single vehicle with a GVWR , actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 pounds, OR such vehicle towing a vehicle with a GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of 10,000 pounds or less.

Class C:

For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any single vehicle with a GVWR , actual weight, or registered weight of 26,000 pounds or less, (or such vehicle towing a vehicle less than 10,000 pounds) transporting hazardous materials requiring placarding or designed to carry 16 or more persons including the driver.

Class D:

For operation of automobiles; light trucks and mopeds.

Class M:

For operation of motorcycles


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

unimogr;691046 said:


> So with an 8600 GVW 3/4 ton pickup I can legally tow up to a 17,399# trailer?
> YES Actually a 18400# trailer, but only if they are registered for those exact same weights
> 
> 
> ...


Here that truck and trailer would be registered at 10K & 20K requiring a Class A CDL


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

Four Seasons;689682 said:


> right, i should probably actually have DOT numbers but i never hit the highway, seriously, never, and it seems if you follow every stupid little rule you'll be flat broke.


What's wrong with following the rules? Who cares if it's a highway or side road, you're still out there driving aroung. Just get a DOT # there free... 
Last season they set up and pulled trucks over all night in my city during a few storms. Nothing like a tape measure checking over width... One of my good friends recieved a ticket for his 9' western plow. After a $200 fine, he still skipped the $50 some odd dollar pemit as well as giving him the legal means to drive with his plow on. 
So, following the rules can be cheap and safe.


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

> Unimogr, read this instead of the back of your license it is clearer here





> Class B:
> 
> For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any single vehicle with a GVWR , actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 pounds, OR such vehicle towing a vehicle *with a GVWR*, actual weight, *or registered weight of 10,000 pounds or less.*


Guess I just don't get it. Seems to me it's saying if the trailer is designed for a weight above 10000# GVWR (based on manufacturers tag) and or it's registered for over 10000# GVWR it requires a CDL-A

My gooseneck trailer has a manufacturers tag stating 14000# GVWR and it's registered for 14,000# GVWR. You're saying as long as I tow it with a 11999# GVWR truck the above doesn't doesn't apply?


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## snow game (Sep 28, 2008)

CT is the worse by far, Easier to just call a tow truck than to try and fix something on the side of the road. Had a driver pulled over one day amazingly no violations on the truck or trailer, but he had a typo on his Lic. saying he neede glasses to drive, he told the trooper he didn't even own glasses and the trooper put him out of service. I had to go get him finish picking up machine and got pulled over two more times in one day. The last trooper to pull me over said he stopped me because he thought I only had two chains on the 410 Deere that was on my trailer. Once he stopped me he could see I had 4 chains and 4 binders, he told me that wasn't good enough, I needed a fifth chain and binder for the boom.


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## camconcrete (Sep 14, 2008)

you all have it real rough out east. In Ohio, anything over 26000 is CDL, however the combination may be, and if it has air brakes, that constitutes a CDL also. But as long as my family has been in the construction business, which has been since the early 70s, and Dad started his own company in the early 90s, we have only been pulled over once, and that was for flip over ramps that weren't tied down, even though they were designed to fold over and stay put. I think though it is just better off and stay on the safe side than to get your a** handed to you on a platter with a big fine by motor carrier enforcement


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

unimogr;691234 said:


> Guess I just don't get it. Seems to me it's saying if the trailer is designed for a weight above 10000# GVWR (based on manufacturers tag) and or it's registered for over 10000# GVWR it requires a CDL-A
> 
> I know i am going to sound like a a$$ but it is hard to explain without being blunt but dont fell bad this is what i thought it meant also until it was explained to me
> 
> ...


CDL doesnt start until over 26K so you dont need a CDL for a 12K truck and a 14K trailer unless either one was over weight by even one pound then you would need a CDL class A


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

camconcrete;691275 said:


> you all have it real rough out east. In Ohio, anything over 26000 is CDL, however the combination may be, and if it has air brakes, that constitutes a CDL also. But as long as my family has been in the construction business, which has been since the early 70s, and Dad started his own company in the early 90s, we have only been pulled over once, and that was for flip over ramps that weren't tied down, even though they were designed to fold over and stay put. I think though it is just better off and stay on the safe side than to get your a** handed to you on a platter with a big fine by motor carrier enforcement


All the states have the same CDL requirements

and it does matter how the combo is If i have a 18k truck with a 10k trailer i wouldnt need a CDL but if it was a 10k truck with a 18k trailer i would need a CDL

Air brakes doesnt automatically require a CDL


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

> CDL doesnt start until over 26K so you dont need a CDL for a 12K truck and a 14K trailer unless either one was over weight by even one pound then you would need a CDL class A


Well that's Ok but depending on who you talk to, what mood the DOT inspector is in, what position the sun and moon is in will get you a different answer as to what is required and legal. (CT is a prime example) When I spoke to the Pres of the RI Truckers Assoc he stated I definetely needed an A licence for my trailer. He also stated just because it's a gooseneck it automatically made it an A. I'm sure you're right but I don't want to argue the point on the side of the road, in the rain, w/ a robo cop.

I remember researching an RI flashing light permit. Sat with the police chief, read the regs for 20 minutes and I definitely didn't need one. Went to the DMV and spoke to an officer in enforcement and I better get one or when stopped I'll have to remove light on the spot.

Maybe I'm just paranoid....

Well, my issue is I have a 14,000 GVW truck and a 14,000 GVW trailer and a CDL-B. My plan is to sell both and get a one ton 9200 GVW +/- (no DOT # required) and a tow behind trailer just under 10,000 GVW. If nothing else I'll save on fuel.


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## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

unimogr;691921
Well said:


> Well if you do that you will still need a DOT#, cause your GVWR would now be over 19k.
> 
> It about what your rig CAN hold not what's in it.
> 
> If your just driving your one ton around, you won't need a number, but as soon as you hook that trailer up, you will.


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## Jello1 (Jan 17, 2008)

Around here in PA even if you drive a F-150 for commercial purposes they want to see the medical card for the driver if you get pulled over by dot.


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## snowandgo (Oct 26, 2008)

I don't have a DOT or medical and have never been asked about it.

Around here it's the local municapilties with "truck enforcement" officers that cause all the trouble.

I did get caught pulling a trailer over 10K without a class A and got ticketed for it. Over 26K GVWR? NO NO NO!

The long and the short of it is it just depends on where you are and how your luck is.

I had a friend that was bragging that cops don't bother plow guys, then he got stopped and ticketed for a taillight out that night!


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

snowandgo;692059 said:


> I don't have a DOT or medical and have never been asked about it.
> 
> Around here it's the local municapilties with "truck enforcement" officers that cause all the trouble.
> 
> ...


thats interesting

what size was the truck and trailer and what was it licensed for


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## snow game (Sep 28, 2008)

Fact is there are so many stupid rules that the cops don't even know them all. I had a 26,000 dump towing a skid steer on a 10,000 trailer, he got written up for no cdl lic. I called to ask why and the trooper said he nade a mistake and deleted the ticket. 
Health cards are a big problem. The Law requires any person operating any vehicle over 10,000lbs have a DOT health card. When we have a new employee we send him down to get it at a walk in Emergency room. If you have a DOT # then all your stops will be recorded. All out of service and every other violation. If you have too many they will come in and audit your record keeping. I have been audited twice. They were at my office for 2 days the second time. You must pull driving records from the state on every driver over 10,000 lbs every year. There is a driver folder that you are supposed to have w/ a ton of bs info on each driver. They want pre employment drug screening for all cdl drivers, cdl drivers must be enrolled in your own company ramdom drug selection. 90 days of daily truck logs, records of health cert. repair amd pm records, time cards for 90 days. They never even looked at a truck. I only have about seven CDL drivers. 
They are changing the rules for health cards in RI and other states as well, being phased in over a 5 year period you will have to have a health card to get a lic with a cdl. Join your local trucking assoc. they helped me out alot and even send emails if they know of any weigh stations opening.
Gone are the days of hiring a friend and sending him down the road. I get nervous lending a truck to a friend or family member.


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

> Well, my issue is I have a 14,000 GVW truck and a 14,000 GVW trailer and a CDL-B. My plan is to sell both and get a one ton 9200 GVW +/- (no DOT # required) and a tow behind trailer just under 10,000 GVW. If nothing else I'll save on fuel.





> Well if you do that you will still need a DOT#, cause your GVWR would now be over 19k.
> 
> It about what your rig CAN hold not what's in it.
> 
> If your just driving your one ton around, you won't need a number, but as soon as you hook that trailer up, you will.


You mean GCWR? I have a DOT # and a set of magnetic numbers just in case. I also have a dufflle bag with all those things you need for DOT like bulbs, fuses, triangles, extinguisher, etc for when I borrow a truck that doesn't have what it should.

Seems it's more about "Revenue Enhancement" than safety.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Unimogr

Why dont you just get a class A?


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

> Why dont you just get a class A?


Well, I don't know about anywhere else but here you'd need a tractor / trailer to take the test. I don't know anyone well enough that owns one so my other option is to go to a tractor trailer training school and pay something like 2500. to 3500. to be taught what I can read in the DOT book. They then have an examiner show at the school to test you on school trucks.

I've heard stories about guys taking the test and finding it very difficult to pass first time so then it becomes a flaming pain in the arse.

It's just easier to try and dance around the rules like getting an 8600 to 9999 GVW pickup w/ no DOT # or inspection emissions. Sadly, I'm sure those rules will change soon enough.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

unimogr;695334 said:


> Well, I don't know about anywhere else but here you'd need a tractor / trailer to take the test. I don't know anyone well enough that owns one so my other option is to go to a tractor trailer training school and pay something like 2500. to 3500. to be taught what I can read in the DOT book. They then have an examiner show at the school to test you on school trucks.
> 
> I've heard stories about guys taking the test and finding it very difficult to pass first time so then it becomes a flaming pain in the arse.
> 
> It's just easier to try and dance around the rules like getting an 8600 to 9999 GVW pickup w/ no DOT # or inspection emissions. Sadly, I'm sure those rules will change soon enough.


I know for a fact that you can use that 14k trailer hooked on your 14k truck

All you need is a combo vehicle rated over 26k

Other than that if you have a class b the hard part is done all you should need to do is take the driving test with the combo vehicle


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

> I know for a fact that you can use that 14k trailer hooked on your 14k truck
> 
> All you need is a combo vehicle rated over 26k


There again it comes down to who you talk to. We have our yearly military vehicle show on the same lot DOT uses for it's drivers testing. Got there early enough one Friday to ask an inspector if I could use my "friends" F450 / gooseneck trailer. He told me it needed to be a class 7 or 8 tractor and trailer as that is what the licence allows me to drive and to test me on the inspection process and air brakes.

There again maybe he was just a street bum groupy DOT test watcher posing as a DOT official ;*).


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

unimogr;695374 said:


> There again it comes down to who you talk to. We have our yearly military vehicle show on the same lot DOT uses for it's drivers testing. Got there early enough one Friday to ask an inspector if I could use my "friends" F450 / gooseneck trailer. He told me it needed to be a class 7 or 8 tractor and trailer as that is what the licence allows me to drive and to test me on the inspection process and air brakes.
> 
> There again maybe he was just a street bum groupy DOT test watcher posing as a DOT official ;*).


I know this because my brother used a Chevy 2500 and a 20k gooseneck flatbed and then took a straight truck in to get his Air brakes endorsment

I dont see how they could demand a tractor trailer because ther is no difference as far as your CDL requirements


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## camconcrete (Sep 14, 2008)

Guys that work at our local rental store get their CDL in a 550 and a 10ton tag trailer, so they got their class a, but with no airbrake endorsement


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

It may well be the guy wasn't taking me seriously. They not the most personable bunch.


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## snow game (Sep 28, 2008)

We usually send our guys in a truck that is over 26000 gvw and a trailer that is also over 10,000lbs. However at least one of my employees has gotten a class a with a truck that was 25000 lbs has air brakes and had a trailer over 10,000lbs. Either way, they always fail the walk through (pre trip). The pre trip inspection is the most important part of the test, at least in RI. Very few people pass on the first try. The driver is supposed to go through the entire truck and call out every part, belt, fluid etc and say loudly so the instructor can hear him say that particular item is ok. Don't even bother sending a truck with any minor violations (once they sent the driver home because the speedometer didn't work) or missing paper work. Make sure the guy who drives the truck there has a copy of health card and Lic. I'm not sure if you can get a class A without an air brake endorsment?? but whats the point?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

snow game;695432 said:


> We usually send our guys in a truck that is over 26000 gvw and a trailer that is also over 10,000lbs. However at least one of mu employees has gotten a class a with a truck that was 25000 lbs has air brakes and had a trailer over 10,000lbs. Either way, they always fail the walk through (pre trip). The pre trip inspection is the most important part of the test, at least in RI. Very few people pass on the first try. The driver is supposed to go through the entire truck and call out every part, belt, fluid etc and say loudly so the instructor can hear him thta that particular item is ok. Don't even bother sending a truck with any minor violations (once they sent the driver home because the speedometer didn't work) or missing paper work. Make sure the guy who drives the truck there has a copy of health card and Lic. I'm not sure if you can get a class a without an air brake endorsment?? thats one to call on, but whats the point?


you can get any CDL without air brakes

not everyone would need the air brake endorsment


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## no lead (Dec 10, 2008)

if you own your own company or work for one you can go to ryder/penske/star truck rental and rent a semi tractor and trailer for cdl testing. the person who rents it needs cdl, same person rides along for learning ( temporary instruction permit ). then use truck/trailer for cdl test.

this is in michigan.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Oh Lord, here we go again. I'm not even going bother reading the whole thread, I'll just end up needing another Valium. :realmad:



cretebaby;689854 said:


> Mark O......................


See above, crete. Ain't going to happen this time.



LoneCowboy;690010 said:


> Just wanted to amend my post a little above. You can NOT need USDOT numbers (depends on state and weight) and still be a commercial vehicle.
> 
> Any vehicle with signs/logo's on the sides is pretty much a commercial vehicle, no matter what it weighs. If you are using it for money off your own property, you are a commercial vehicle. motorcycle on up.
> 
> ...


Careful, it is happening around here. One of the members here (from GR) was stopped for 3 hours waiting for scales. It was not in a pickup, but still, they did it. A cop stops me for that long during a storm, someone is going to hear about it. Right up to the mayor's office.

It's all about revenue folks, and tax revenue is down for all gov't entities. We're the next cash cow.

And for the dimwit that stated it's about registered weight and not GVW, knock yourself out and overload your truck and go through the scales. It's about both.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;695501 said:


> Oh Lord, here we go again. I'm not even going bother reading the whole thread, I'll just end up needing another Valium. :realmad:
> 
> See above, crete. Ain't going to happen this time.
> 
> ...


Took you long enough LOL


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

yes you are right snogame, the audits that you go through is what DOT is really cracking down on. Biggest problem that everyone is facing is that you have to verify a CDL drivers history. What do you do when the driver worked for a company that is no longer in business or what do you do when the previous company won't provide his driving record? Most of the trucking associations and Teamsters are up in arms about it. Most of the associations now give you a little flow chart on how to hire people and the questions that you need to ask. 

And not to belittle the 10,000gvw and 25,000 discussion, but if you are hauling more than the reportable quantity of a hazardous material you need a haz mat endorsement which can only be done on a CDL. So if you are driving around in your caddy with a small nuclear bomb weighing only 6lbs, you need a CDL. I find comfort in knowing that DOT has us covered against foreign terrorists carrying bombs in their cars


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## toptech72 (Oct 7, 2008)

The great state of Maryland has lost the class A cdl test vehicle requirements battle more than once. When one of my employees got pulled over in my 1 ton pulling his race car trailer he was ticketed and had to unhook the trailer and have it towed home. When he went to the MVA to get his class A in my truck they told him that he needed a bigger truck to take the test. So after fighting up the chain of command and getting parts of the driver handbook uderlined and circled by MVA officails he left. When he went to court for his ticket he showed all of his evidence to the judge and told the judge he could not take the test in the same vehicle he was ticketed for driving. The end result was him getting let off on the ticket and the MVA letting him take the test in my truck with his trailer. And i believe you should be able to take the test in the vehicle you will be driving. The thing that has gotten on my nerves has been the last couple of time i have been to PA to the truck pulls DOT have been going around sticking tanks to make sure you not running off road fuel. To me that would be a violation of my rights. Wouldnt they need a warrant? Doesnt that fall under illegal search and seizure?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

toptech72;695796 said:


> The great state of Maryland has lost the class A cdl test vehicle requirements battle more than once. When one of my employees got pulled over in my 1 ton pulling his race car trailer he was ticketed and had to unhook the trailer and have it towed home. When he went to the MVA to get his class A in my truck they told him that he needed a bigger truck to take the test. So after fighting up the chain of command and getting parts of the driver handbook uderlined and circled by MVA officails he left. When he went to court for his ticket he showed all of his evidence to the judge and told the judge he could not take the test in the same vehicle he was ticketed for driving. The end result was him getting let off on the ticket and the MVA letting him take the test in my truck with his trailer. And i believe you should be able to take the test in the vehicle you will be driving. The thing that has gotten on my nerves has been the last couple of time i have been to PA to the truck pulls DOT have been going around sticking tanks to make sure you not running off road fuel. To me that would be a violation of my rights. Wouldnt they need a warrant? Doesnt that fall under illegal search and seizure?


I would say so but good luck with it


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

unimogr;695334 said:


> Well, I don't know about anywhere else but here you'd need a tractor / trailer to take the test. I don't know anyone well enough that owns one so my other option is to go to a tractor trailer training school and pay something like 2500. to 3500. to be taught what I can read in the DOT book. They then have an examiner show at the school to test you on school trucks.
> .


Here, it's all tested by private companies certified and sponsored by the state. (all examiners are instructors, but not all instructors are examiners).

And, having gone thru one of the schools, if you already know how to drive, they'll do just the straight test for a minimal fee (their trucks, not sure on YOUR trucks, but I suppose they would). Or, if you just want a refresher course (1 or 2 days or something) they do that too. It's not all just the 3 to 4 week every day class.

Call them up, see what they can do for your situation, I think you'll be surprised.
And plus one on the pre-trip. It's not everything, it's specific things that have to be mentioned. And it's well worth taking a half day or so to pay for that, because the test goes in order
1. Pre trip
2. In the yard (backing)
3. on the road

Fail the pre-trip and you are done, you have to start all over, reschedule, etc. 
Hit too many cones and you fail, start all over, reschedule, pay the fee, etc.

It's worth a 1 or 2 day refresher course, just to find out how the test is run and then take it. Be much cheaper this way.

And I know you can get a class A CDL with NO air brakes endorsement. I just don't know why you would. But you can.


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## WMHLC (Jul 31, 2005)

I got stopped, and it took a good chunk of time for them to do all they had to do. The guy was very nice and just gave me all warnings and a repair and report ticket. I did learn alot about the law, and he walked me thru everything I needed to know. Some of the stuff I think is good, but most of the laws are BS.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

LoneCowboy;696145 said:


> And I know you can get a class A CDL with NO air brakes endorsement. I just don't know why you would. But you can.


One reason one might not get air brakes endorsment is that you need a CDL for a pickup with a 20K trailer but it doesnt have air brakes


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

these weight laws are so dumb. i asked people about the wieghts and they told me dont worry about it your truck isnt over 8000(thats my regy on my truck plates). but the other day im towing a full aluminum 32 foot sled trailer that i know is well over my 16000k on my licence, my truck didnt even squat at all no toung weight. passing afewcops on the way home and nothing. im just waiting for the over weight ticket and then i go back anddo it again. because i was told the day i got my licence that i could tow anything that i want aslong as my vehical isnt over 16000 with the toung weight. this never made sence to me and never will. if i can put it on my truck then i can tow it thats the way i look at it as!


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

the new boss 92;696447 said:


> these weight laws are so dumb. i asked people about the wieghts and they told me dont worry about it your truck isnt over 8000(thats my regy on my truck plates). but the other day im towing a full aluminum 32 foot sled trailer that i know is well over my 16000k on my licence, my truck didnt even squat at all no toung weight. passing afewcops on the way home and nothing. im just waiting for the over weight ticket and then i go back anddo it again. because i was told the day i got my licence that i could tow anything that i want aslong as my vehical isnt over 16000 with the toung weight. this never made sence to me and never will. if i can put it on my truck then i can tow it thats the way i look at it as!


a 6-8 place aluminum trailer wouldnt weight 16k


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## tedmed (Dec 31, 2008)

*I agree with unimogr*

I went to a TT school (that shall remain nameless to protect the innocent), and have a Class A, CDL. I agree with whats above.

The only thing I "THINK" is missing might be the class D gross combined vehicle weight rating. Which really is a joke. It says you can take for example a 11K F350 and put a 15K trailer on it---making your rating be 26K--- and be within your class D license limits--- which is up 26000lbs. You will need all the safety equipment and DOT Medical Card though... We all know 26001 and above is CDL B or A depending on your truck/trailer combination etc...

The other thing I think is missing from these posts is that TT School teaches everyone the same FEDERAL LAWS and whatever State Laws that might be different or more strict, lets say in the state you are taking the class. Each state however, has their own spin on some of the rules.

Believe it or not, for those of us living in MA we have a very informative/helpful MA State Police DOT office. They will answer all kinds of questions and help you out. Dont wait until you get a ticket. Make some phone calls and get the correct answers for your particular situation.

Hope this helps someone.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

tedmed;696494 said:


> .
> 
> The only thing I "THINK" is missing might be the class D gross combined vehicle weight rating. Which really is a joke. It says you can take for example a 11K F350 and put a 15K trailer on it---making your rating be 26K--- and be within your class D license limits--- which is up 26000lbs. You will need all the safety equipment and DOT Medical Card though... We all know 26001 and above is CDL B or A depending on your truck/trailer combination etc...
> 
> .


So you think we should need a CDL for that rig?


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## DCSpecial (Nov 16, 2008)

the new boss 92;696447 said:


> these weight laws are so dumb. i asked people about the wieghts and they told me dont worry about it your truck isnt over 8000(thats my regy on my truck plates). but the other day im towing a full aluminum 32 foot sled trailer that i know is well over my 16000k on my licence, my truck didnt even squat at all no toung weight. passing afewcops on the way home and nothing. im just waiting for the over weight ticket and then i go back anddo it again. because i was told the day i got my licence that i could tow anything that i want aslong as my vehical isnt over 16000 with the toung weight. this never made sence to me and never will. if i can put it on my truck then i can tow it thats the way i look at it as!


GCWR of 16k+?

Since I see you are in IL:

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/drivers_license/il_license_class.html

Regarding class D from that link:


cyberdriveillinois.com said:


> Class D
> Any single vehicle with a GVWR 16,000 pounds or less that is not designed to transport 16 or more people; or
> 
> Any single vehicle with a GVWR 16,000 pounds or less that is not used in the transportation of hazardous materials which requires the vehicle to be placarded; or
> ...


In terms of needing a CDL:
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/cdl/whoneeds_cdl.html

Now with only B plates (8000lbs) they can get you if they put the truck on the scale and it's over 8000lbs on the truck.
My truck empty is 7930lbs without the plow.....I'm plated for 12,000lbs.


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## tedmed (Dec 31, 2008)

*Dot numbers*

Just saw this one too...

Quote:
Well if you do that you will still need a DOT#, cause your GVWR would now be over 19k.

It about what your rig CAN hold not what's in it.

If your just driving your one ton around, you won't need a number, but as soon as you hook that trailer up, yo

The way DOT numbers were explained to me in MA was that if my commercially registered truck and/or trailer was used to transport anything that was "for hire" such as sand, rock, trash, lumber, food, Bobcats, Kubotas, etc then I needed a number on my truck. We have "Inter"state and "Intra"state use here. Probably the same in other states...

Again, a good question for the local DOT office in your town.

So does the guy with the F450 crew cab towing a 10 place snowmobile trailer heading out for the weekend need a DOT number? Id say no as long as the Gross Combined Weight Rating of the truck and trailer is below 26000lbs... First of all its for personal use, and second of all you are within your Class D license limits. Would I say you need a DOT health card? Yes. Just to drive the truck alone you would, never mind the trailer!! The key is not to go over the combined weight rating of 26000lbs...

I love this country!!! Some things are crappy, but its still the best place on earth!!! ussmileyflag


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

DCSpecial;696509 said:


> GCWR of 16k+?
> 
> Since I see you are in IL:
> 
> ...


All states are the same now and class D goes up to 26k


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

cretebaby;696444 said:


> One reason one might not get air brakes endorsment is that you need a CDL for a pickup with a 20K trailer but it doesnt have air brakes


well, ok, fair enough, but I can't imagine a pickup that's not going to be overweight with 25% of 20,000lbs on the gooseneck hitch (or 10% of 20,000 on bumper pull). I'm not saying it won't pull it and easily and in the real world safely. But it's going to weigh over if you get pulled.

and b. once you go air brakes, you'll never go back.

But c. My point was really, you have to go thru all this crap to get the class A, get the air brakes at the same time, it's a much more useful (and marketable) license


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

LoneCowboy;696656 said:


> well, ok, fair enough, but I can't imagine a pickup that's not going to be overweight with 25% of 20,000lbs on the gooseneck hitch (or 10% of 20,000 on bumper pull). I'm not saying it won't pull it and easily and in the real world safely. But it's going to weigh over if you get pulled.
> 
> and b. once you go air brakes, you'll never go back.
> 
> But c. My point was really, you have to go thru all this crap to get the class A, get the air brakes at the same time, it's a much more useful (and marketable) license


I understand what your trying to say but why spend the money to rent a truck if you dont need the air brakes endorsment

you an always go back for it when you need it


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## no lead (Dec 10, 2008)

dot regs are cryptic at best. to many variables state to state. when it comes to trailers, an S10 pickup could get 16,000 lb rolling. but can it stop it? never. that is were the rub comes in. 

back in '97 i ran over the road in MI and was hauling a roll off box half full of dies. i had a 5 axle semi trailer, i new i was over weight but took it easy and got to the scrap yard. i crossed their private scale at 106,000lb. i was plated for 90,000. that was a scarrrrry ride. stopping distance was almost doubled it seemed. without air brakes it would be impossible. 

dot is a pain. have you ever dealt with the icc? interstate commerce commision. total pain in the butt. these guys dictate the way your truck is built. like the icc bumper. must be 60" long, not more than 30" from the road. roll legit is your best bet.


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

> dot is a pain. have you ever dealt with the icc? interstate commerce commision. total pain in the butt. these guys dictate the way your truck is built. like the icc bumper. must be 60" long, not more than 30" from the road. roll legit is your best bet.


Uh Huh... I need to make one for my truck. Figured I better look up the rules before I start. There's a new standard coming for new trailers / trucks and they are talking about the possibillity of adding requirements for side guards (bumpers) like you see on European trucks.

49 CFR section 393.86, a provision of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations, provides:

"Every motor vehicle, except truck-tractors, pole trailers, and vehicles engaged in driveaway-towaway operations, the date of manufacture of which is subsequent to December 31, 1952, which is so constructed that the body or the chassis assembly if without a body has a clearance at the rear end of more than 30 inches from the ground when empty, shall be provided with bumpers or devices serving similar purposes which shall be so constructed and located that:

"(a) The clearance between the effective bottom of the bumpers or devices and the ground shall not exceed 30 inches with the vehicle empty;

"(b) The maximum distance between the closest points between bumpers, or devices, if more than one is used, shall not exceed 24 inches;

"(c) The maximum transverse distance from the widest part of the motor vehicle at the rear to the bumper or device shall not exceed 18 inches;

"(d) The bumpers or devices shall be located not more than 24 inches forward of the extreme rear of the vehicle; and

"(e) The bumpers or devices shall be substantially constructed and firmly attached. Motor vehicles constructed and maintained so that the body, chassis, or other parts of the vehicle afford the rear end protection contemplated shall be deemed to be in compliance with this section."


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## snow game (Sep 28, 2008)

Fireball, The Driver history isn't all that bad. I was told during the audit all you have to do is Show that you tried contacting the previous employer. I had fax copies in the (oh so important driver file) that the inspector said was ok, but I'm sure that varies just like everthing else. He said that "action can be taken against the old employer who doesn't respond."
Top Tech, Great story! glad you guys came out on top, its just too bad how much time and money had to be wasted to point out local and Federal agencies are not on the same page!


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## clark lawn (Oct 7, 2005)

just to let everyone know i saw DOT pull over a salt truck this morning it was an F650 or about that size i saw they had him on the portables, i am sure he was over as the salt was about 2 feet over the side boards


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## ondirtymax (Dec 22, 2008)

I understand what is being said about going for your A cdl in the vehicle you drive, but the problem is once you have your A cdl, you can legally get behind the wheel of a big rig as long as you have your air endorsement. I live in ontario, and the rules are the same here as they are in the U.S., as both countries follow the exact same rules when it comes to operating and obtaining a cdl, the only exception being in the states you need to be 21, in canada 18 to obtain a cdl. Do I agree with the rules? No, not all of them. I have been driving truck for over 10 yrs now, 2 of those as an owner operator and dealing with DOT can be frustrating and a PITA, but hey thats life!


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

Actually, you can get your CDL at 18 in the states.
BUT, you can't drive interstate, you can only stay in the state (and not all states allow this, Colorado does, I know for a fact)

the biggest problem with DOT is that the rules change all the time. You get pulled over once and it's A, B, C.
Fine, you go fix A, B, C and check it everytime.
Next time you get pulled, they check D
which of course, you had no idea to check D

Although, on a general level I do think DOT is more about safety than regular cops (a brake problem on a 80,000lb truck is a serious problem), at the end I still think it's about the money. They don't check these great big RV's that weigh 30,000/40,000lbs do they? And find me one 5th wheel travel trailer that isn't SERIOUSLY overweight, but the next one to get weighed will be the first.

Follow the money.


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## tedmed (Dec 31, 2008)

*Reply for cretebaby*

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedmed View Post
.

The only thing I "THINK" is missing might be the class D gross combined vehicle weight rating. Which really is a joke. It says you can take for example a 11K F350 and put a 15K trailer on it---making your rating be 26K--- and be within your class D license limits--- which is up 26000lbs. You will need all the safety equipment and DOT Medical Card though... We all know 26001 and above is CDL B or A depending on your truck/trailer combination etc...

So you think we should need a CDL for that rig?

To answer your question about say F450s, Chevy C4500's etc, Id say no. Those trucks have hydraulic brakes, great suspension and honestly handle better than just about any car I have ever driven/owned---well except for my 86 Mustang GT Convertible---which I kick myself for selling every day---but that's apples to oranges anyway. If I could afford to have a new F450 crew cab, powerstroke, and not work it but use it for play (snowmobiling, atving, hunting)---Id be out of my skin angry that I couldnt tow my trailer with it anymore, etc because I needed a cdl... Those rigs are $60000 on the sticker!

What Id like to see is manufacturers doing better about warning potential buyers about the GVW issues they could run into when hauling/towing. Do I ever think a salesman will blow a deal over a guy having the wrong trailer at home? No way. Thats why the Manufacturer---Ford in the case of the Gentleman saying he has to sell the F450 now and get a smaller truck and trailer---should highlight the window sticker and explain briefly the larger GVW and the complications that COULD arise from it... Its really a case of buyer beware again, which I think we all hate honestly.

When I finally went to school almost a year ago the instructors were always complaining about the Landscapers and Weekend Warrior Homeowners hauling a T300 bobcat with the F350 pickups/dumps. The FUNNIEST part of that statement is I WAS THAT GUY for about 8 years before I ponied up the cash!!!! So anyway the machine alone weighs 10K, trailer 2-4K, put a load of mulch in the dump and whats that weigh? Its got to be 2K. Hydraulic brakes on the truck, electric on the trailer---IF YOUR LUCKY there's any at all. Just a recipe for disaster.

Is a school trained cdl driver always the safest one on the road? No. As a whole would the roads be a safer place if people driving medium duty---COMMERCIAL USE--- trucks were required to have a cdl? Id have to say yes. I know it opened up my eyes to basically a whole new world...

A lot of reading, but I think I covered it.


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## tedmed (Dec 31, 2008)

*Right on!*



LoneCowboy;697073 said:


> Actually, you can get your CDL at 18 in the states.
> BUT, you can't drive interstate, you can only stay in the state (and not all states allow this, Colorado does, I know for a fact)
> 
> the biggest problem with DOT is that the rules change all the time. You get pulled over once and it's A, B, C.
> ...


DOT is COMPLETELY about the money! They cover it up with the BS line about safety for all citizens. I'm not saying we dont need safety on the road because we do. To tell me its ok to hand a driver a $7000 ticket is ridiculous.

Seriously, think about this one. Why cant they hand out warnings and require the truck to be down until its repaired? This would get the driver off the hook for a bad motor carrier say, and it gives the motor carrier a chance to properly fix the rig.

Ill tell you why! Its because they need the money to buy everything they are not allowed to buy with our tax dollars directly, that's why! LMAO!! payup


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## Marek (Nov 16, 2005)

One of our subs trucks was pulled yesterday morning. F350 w/8' v box and 7.5 plow. No tarp on the load marker lights covered by salt and 2k over his 10k gvw. This is the second of our salt trucks to be pulled this year . For Maryland its just a money making thing , they just hit you with the fines , no points and they seem to let you off on some of the major things so that the fines dont get to high and you just pay the ticket. So dont think that they wont pull you in the snow, here they will and laugh all the way to the bank.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

2k overweight?????
owwwwwwwwwwww, that probably did it.
I've heard that overweight tickets are really expensive
true?
no?


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