# Additional 'Snow Pay' For Salaried Employees



## Zacamil7525 (Dec 16, 2011)

Hello all. I am an operations manager for a mid sized Landscape Company in the DC area. I am trying to work out a compensation plan for any salaried employees that happen to work in snow removal operations outside of regular business hours which for us is M-F 7:30am - 4:30pm. I was thinking of paying an hourly rate to salaried employees for this time worked outside of normal business hours or trading those hours worked outside of normal business hours for the same amount of time off of normal business hours depending on the situation. Basically I am trying to create a system that is both fair to the employee and the company. Has anyone else come up with a system that works well for the employee and the company?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Zacamil7525 said:


> Hello all. I am an operations manager for a mid sized Landscape Company in the DC area. I am trying to work out a compensation plan for any salaried employees that happen to work in snow removal operations outside of regular business hours which for us is M-F 7:30am - 4:30pm. I was thinking of paying an hourly rate to salaried employees for this time worked outside of normal business hours or trading those hours worked outside of normal business hours for the same amount of time off of normal business hours depending on the situation. Basically I am trying to create a system that is both fair to the employee and the company. Has anyone else come up with a system that works well for the employee and the company?


Have you discussed it with the employees in question to see what they will even consider accepting?

My guess is that the employees are going to object to getting paid their regular hourly wage at 12:30 in the morning on a Sunday during a blizzard.

And they will probably really, really, object to offering them 8 hours time off on a Wednesday in exchange for the aforementioned labor...

I have no employees, so take that with a grain of salt. That's just my take as a paid lackey.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

I’d talk with the employees you’re trying to be fair with, but I feel like you’re headed down a very slippery slope.

Are the employees in question field labor or supervisors?


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Generally a salary is based on X amount of hours a week...Our dispatchers for instance salary is based on 43 hours a week...


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## Zacamil7525 (Dec 16, 2011)

Thank you for your replies This compensation plan would be for salaried employees only. The pay rate I had considered for salaried employees working off hours doing snow removal work is $25/hour. 

These salaried employees work as account managers/sales reps. 

Our hourly employees are paid a higher wage for snow removal work already.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I'd talk with the employees you're trying to be fair with, but I feel like you're headed down a very slippery slope.


I don't think that slope is slippery. I think it's just going to be filled with a lot of hearty laughter.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Zacamil7525 said:


> Thank you for your replies This compensation plan would be for salaried employees only. The pay rate I had considered for salaried employees working off hours doing snow removal work is $25/hour.
> 
> These salaried employees work as account managers/sales reps.
> 
> Our hourly employees are paid a higher wage for snow removal work already.


So, you want to suggest to your administrative personnel that they aren't as valuable or useful as your hourly workers?


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## Zacamil7525 (Dec 16, 2011)

Defcon 5 said:


> Generally a salary is based on X amount of hours a week...Our dispatchers for instance salary is based on 43 hours a week...


In your case would you pay your dispatchers an hourly rate for hours worked beyond 43 hours in a work week?


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## Zacamil7525 (Dec 16, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> So, you want to suggest to your administrative personnel that they aren't as valuable or useful as your hourly workers?


No not at all. We want to be fair to our salaried employees. The hourly employees are paid at 1.5x their normal hourly rate for snow removal work.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Zacamil7525 said:


> No not at all. We want to be fair to our salaried employees. The hourly employees are paid at 1.5x their normal hourly rate for snow removal work.


I apologize, I misread your post before.

Whether or not the $25 would be acceptable would probably be dependent on how much the salaried employees normally make at an hourly rate vs how much you are paying the hourly employees at time-and-a-half.


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## Zacamil7525 (Dec 16, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> I apologize, I misread your post before.
> 
> Whether or not the $25 would be acceptable would probably be dependent on how much the salaried employees normally make at an hourly rate vs how much you are paying the hourly employees at time-and-a-half.


Thanks cwren2472. What about paying this off hours labor rate when the salaried employee misses part or all of the next business day? Should one wash out the other hour for hour?


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## Zacamil7525 (Dec 16, 2011)

Zacamil7525 said:


> Thanks cwren2472. What about paying this off hours labor rate when the salaried employee misses part or all of the next business day? Should one wash out the other hour for hour?


essentially trading hours worked outside of regular business hour for hours that would have been worked during normal business hours..


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Zacamil7525 said:


> In your case would you pay your dispatchers an hourly rate for hours worked beyond 43 hours in a work week?


They get paid on top of the salary to work saturdays for instance...$125 from open till noon...Than an hourly rate afternoon...

For the Snow business...I would have a salaried employee clocking in and out during the week...Anything above the agreed amount of hours in their salary would be paid an hourly rate...Thats how I would do it...Some business owners in this field would say the snow end and the hours that go with it is part of the salary


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Zacamil7525 said:


> Thanks cwren2472. What about paying this off hours labor rate when the salaried employee misses part or all of the next business day? Should one wash out the other hour for hour?


If your employees are fine with that, go for it.

From the employee perspective, asking me to plow from 10 pm to 2am, then graciously offering for me to come in at noon the next day would not be viewed as "fair."

If the work is outside the normal scope of the job, most employees would expect to be compensated for it at a premium rate.

If you salaried employees are making the weekly equivalent of $15/hr and you are offering them $25 to plow, then it may be ok to them. If they make $25 on a regular day in the office and you are offering $25 for plowing, don't expect for it to be well received. Especially if your hourly employees are making $20 per hour normally, and $30 per hour while plowing.


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## Zacamil7525 (Dec 16, 2011)

cwren2472 said:


> If your employees are fine with that, go for it.
> 
> From the employee perspective, asking me to plow from 10 pm to 2am, then graciously offering for me to come in at noon the next day would not be viewed as "fair."


 I get it. This is tough one. I'm just trying to find a good balance that works well for both the salaried employees and the company. Do you think it is fair for the company to pay an hourly rate to salaried employees, whatever that rate may be, for hours worked from 10pm to 2am and still pay the salary for the following day if the employee didn't work during normal business hours?


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Zacamil7525 said:


> I get it. This is tough one. I'm just trying to find a good balance that works well for both the salaried employees and the company. Do you think it is fair for the company to pay an hourly rate to salaried employees, whatever that rate may be, for hours worked from 10pm to 2am and still pay the salary for the following day if the employee didn't work during normal business hours?


I get what you are saying now.

I think a "fair" offering would be to offer the equivalent "time-and-a-half" for comp time in exchange for the time plowed. So if they plow for 8 hours, and can't work the next shift because of that plowing, offering the equivalent of an extra 4 hours (or whatever your employees are willing to agree to) would probably be a better solution.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

I'm not your employee, so convincing me isn't an issue, but I'll tell you that personally it would take an extra 8 hours comp time per 8 hours worked to get me to even consider plowing at third shift on a weekend. But I'm greedy.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

The bottom line is...It’s tough to find employees in this day and age...Treat them fair


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

cwren2472 said:


> I'm not your employee, so convincing me isn't an issue, but I'll tell you that personally it would take an extra 8 hours comp time per 8 hours worked to get me to even consider plowing at third shift on a weekend. But I'm greedy.


Hey doggies need new outfits...


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## Zacamil7525 (Dec 16, 2011)

Defcon 5 said:


> The bottom line is...It's tough to find employees in this day and age...Treat them fair


So true. Thank you.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Hey doggies need new outfits...


My wife bought them Patriots jerseys last week. $29.95 each at Petco. No, I'm not kidding you.


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## Zacamil7525 (Dec 16, 2011)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Hey doggies need new outfits...


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## MeTurf (Jan 26, 2019)

We make a spreadsheet with 52 weeks, how many hours they have historically worked each week, 0 hours and full pay for vacation weeks, that covers their regular wages. Then we add lines for twelve 1-3” storms, five 4-8” storms and two large storms at time and a half at their regular wage in addition to their regular hours already posted. This gives them double time wage and is based on the 100 year average for our area. My foremen all like the program.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Zacamil7525 said:


> I get it. This is tough one. I'm just trying to find a good balance that works well for both the salaried employees and the company. Do you think it is fair for the company to pay an hourly rate to salaried employees, whatever that rate may be, for hours worked from 10pm to 2am and still pay the salary for the following day if the employee didn't work during normal business hours?


Absolutely!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Zacamil7525 said:


> No not at all. We want to be fair to our salaried employees. The hourly employees are paid at 1.5x their normal hourly rate for snow removal work.


Hopefully you have checked with someone that knows what they are talking about when you set this up. This is what we used to do but we changed it to "premium pay". Plus there are legalities regarding how they are paid OT that tie in with their premium pay.

As to your initial question, I really don't know, but my guess would be you'd be stretching some laws to start taking away salary and paying hourly, comp time, etc. Have no clue how it would work with OT, either. I would check with an attorney who specializes in labor law. Just seems like a lot of potential issues that could arise from a disgruntled employee.

But Defcon is right, treat them right if they're good.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Hopefully you have checked with someone that knows what they are talking about when you set this up. This is what we used to do but we changed it to "premium pay". Plus there are legalities regarding how they are paid OT that tie in with their premium pay.
> 
> As to your initial question, I really don't know, but my guess would be you'd be stretching some laws to start taking away salary and paying hourly, comp time, etc. Have no clue how it would work with OT, either. I would check with an attorney who specializes in labor law. Just seems like a lot of potential issues that could arise from a disgruntled employee.
> 
> But Defcon is right, treat them right if they're good.


I just had a mild cardio infarction....Could you repete that last sentence please


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I just had a mild cardio infarction....Could you repete that last sentence please


Did you consume another expired gas station egg salad samich???


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Did you consume another expired gas station egg salad samich???


Not lately ....Just befuddled and Flummoxed that you somewhat agreed with me


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I know a company the salary guys who work snow operations get a week more vacation time and a bonus at the end of the winter depending on the seasons snowfall


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Not lately ....Just befuddled and Flummoxed that you somewhat agreed with me


K


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## sven1277 (Jan 15, 2008)

I have two salaried supervisors. They work fewer hours in he winter. I really only require 3 days jan-middle of march but they have been with me for several years and know what to expect in the winter. This winter has been extremely light so they're coming out ahead. Previous winters have been busier with snow. Technically a salaries employee is based on 2080hrs/year. Being seasonal, my guys are getting 1700-1800 so they're usually coming out ahead as it is. I'd recommend a bonus at end of snow season based on hours. Being salaried comes with the benefit of having a steady paycheck 52 weeks a year which is a lot better than the guys that have to collect every winter. There are pluses and minuses with salary but you need guys who are committed to your company. I'm pretty leniant about winter hours. If we have a storm or two in a week, I'll give the guys the rest of the week off, save for any additional snow related cleanup or repair work. This has been working well for us.


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## sota (Jan 31, 2011)

I would ask: are the people in question working outside the scope of their normal job? I.E.: is Sally from accounting who sits at a desk all the time, being handed a shovel and told "go throw snow?" If so that to me seems like a different "job" than her salaried position, and should be negotiated separately from her standard compensation. I guess the general question I'd have is, how far outside the standard job scope is their doing snow removal.

By way of example, my "day job" is that if an I.T. specialist; I deal with computers and all computer related things. In general, I have no problem with a client asking for me to do something outside the normal scope of my work, as long as they understand and agree to paying me my standard hourly rate at a minimum; I make this very clear to them. You want to pay me $125/hr to pick up and drop off an employee of yours instead of fixing your broken computers? I'm fine with that.


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