# Anyone plow any Target/Super Target(s)???



## capnsac

I have recently been offered to help a guy plow all the targets in the Omaha, NE region. I have never used a plow, ever. It will be me and this guy plowing each one, and they are offering $3000 per push. I am assuming this will require salt/sand each push too. Now I don't know how bonkers this is to think that two guys can tackle 6 Target/Super Targets in a snow without going coo-coo-nuts 

Let me know what you guys are thinking. My cut would be $1500 per target as it stands for right now. I haven't purchased a plow yet because I have yet to sign the contract. Any and all suggestions are welcome, and what kind of plow I should get.


~~I have an 05 F-350 Crew-Cab long bed 6.0 PSD.~~


----------



## iceyman

you wanna plow 6 targets with two trucks....... youll be able to handle maybe one with 2 trucks..... i think your diving into a shallow pool headfirst without any water in it....


----------



## JD Dave

iceyman;611673 said:


> you wanna plow 6 targets with two trucks....... youll be able to handle maybe one with 2 trucks..... i think your diving into a shallow pool headfirst without any water in it....


Personally I think 6 is perfect for your first winter plowing, maybe next year you can get a few more. Oh and for your first plow I'd look at a Snowbear.


----------



## Crash935

capnsac;611654 said:


> Now I don't know how bonkers this is to think that two guys can tackle 6 Target/Super Targets in a snow without going coo-coo-nuts
> ~~I have an 05 F-350 Crew-Cab long bed 6.0 PSD.~~


I think the guy who is trying to drag you into this venture needs to put the crack pipe down for a little while and re-think this!!!!!


----------



## erkoehler

I used to be a manager at a Target....we were NOT willing to deal with slow contractors or a lack of trucks on the lot.

I worked at a Super Target and we had a LARGE front end loader w/ a pusher on the front that was parked in our parking lot. Usually had 1-2 3/4 ton pickups on the lot as well when the snow began to pile up.

No matter what, when the flakes started flying there was someone out at the loader getting it ready from the snow removal company. By the time we had 1" of snow on the ground the other pickup had shown up.

As far as salting, the lot was salted OFTEN to say the least, and it had to be salted by 6-6:30am as needed.

We used Arctic snow removal in Chicago, IL.


----------



## capnsac

So I am getting mixed responses, 2 for me going insane and 1 thinking that it is a good idea. I honestly don't know an efficiency rating as far as plows go because quite frankly I have never had any experience with them. All I know is I will hire two guys to snow blow all the walks and in front of the loading docks so that we can come by and just push the snow.


----------



## capnsac

erkoehler;611698 said:


> I used to be a manager at a Target....we were NOT willing to deal with slow contractors or a lack of trucks on the lot.
> 
> I worked at a Super Target and we had a LARGE front end loader w/ a pusher on the front that was parked in our parking lot. Usually had 1-2 3/4 ton pickups on the lot as well when the snow began to pile up.
> 
> No matter what, when the flakes started flying there was someone out at the loader getting it ready from the snow removal company. By the time we had 1" of snow on the ground the other pickup had shown up.
> 
> As far as salting, the lot was salted OFTEN to say the least, and it had to be salted by 6-6:30am as needed.
> 
> We used Arctic snow removal in Chicago, IL.


Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it. I really want this to work and am truly hopeful because I have a feeling this winter is going to be HUGE. Salting/sanding always needs to be done last, and takes the least amount of time. I am worried about removal, because without a bobcat and a dump truck if the snow begins to pile up then we will be SOL. So maybe an additional truck will be necessary?


----------



## iceyman

capnsac;611702 said:


> So I am getting mixed responses, 2 for me going insane and 1 thinking that it is a good idea. I honestly don't know an efficiency rating as far as plows go because quite frankly I have never had any experience with them. All I know is I will hire two guys to snow blow all the walks and in front of the loading docks so that we can come by and just push the snow.


you thought JD was being serious....... you need to put down the crack pipe......youll be lucky to finish one within reasonable time....the 6th store will be done 4 dAYS LATER... im sure they will be thrilled with your guys work... let me know how the first storm goes... oo and i recommend a snowsport.. very versatile


----------



## Crash935

JD Dave;611680 said:


> Personally I think 6 is perfect for your first winter plowing, maybe next year you can get a few more. Oh and for your first plow I'd look at a Snowbear.


Sarcasm at its best!!!!


----------



## lilweeds

capnsac;611702 said:


> So I am getting mixed responses, 2 for me going insane and 1 thinking that it is a good idea. I honestly don't know an efficiency rating as far as plows go because quite frankly I have never had any experience with them. All I know is I will hire two guys to snow blow all the walks and in front of the loading docks so that we can come by and just push the snow.


You do realize the one for doing this was joking right? There is no way you can plow 6 Targets with two trucks. Why not take it small and plow some drug stores first.


----------



## IMAGE

This thread and its original poster must be a big joke. MD, cross check IP's and I think we will find the jokester.


----------



## erkoehler

I WOULD NOT ATTEMPT THIS CONTRACT OF 6 STORES WITHOUT THE FOLLOWING:

-2 sidewalk crews of 4 persons. They will need 4 snow blowers, 2 ATV's, salt spreaders, shovels, salt, 2 trucks to move equipment, and trailers.
-6 pickup trucks w/ minimum 8ft blades
-2 Loader w/ minimum 10ft pusher to stack snow and upkeep two parking lot.
-2 trucks with salters to hit these lots, could probably use 3-4 if your busy.


Also, how far apart are the stores? If they are not within 20-30 minutes winter driving time, your going to want to make sure that you have 1-2 trucks as backup.

You will loose that contract so fast if you can't have EVERY LOT cleared AND salted prior to store opening at 8am (7am during holidays). Also, to get salt down you will have to have the first lot cleared by 5:30 am latest to make it with 2 salt trucks. That would be cutting it close too!


----------



## capnsac

Shows my ignorance to plowing! I don't care if this is a big laugh for you all, but with the right amount of trucks and guys then this will be a huge amount of money. I am on here for one reason and that reason is to gain knowledge and not get mocked. So please save all sarcastic remarks for other threads.

In the meantime, what do you guys this it will take for this task to be accomplished?


----------



## iceyman

capnsac;611737 said:


> Shows my ignorance to plowing! I don't care if this is a big laugh for you all, but with the right amount of trucks and guys then this will be a huge amount of money. I am on here for one reason and that reason is to gain knowledge and not get mocked. So please save all sarcastic remarks for other threads.
> 
> In the meantime, what do you guys this it will take for this task to be accomplished?


6 loaders and probably 9 to 12 trucks depending on the size of the lots....im sure thats in your arsenal thoprsport


----------



## capnsac

erkoehler;611733 said:


> I WOULD NOT ATTEMPT THIS CONTRACT OF 6 STORES WITHOUT THE FOLLOWING:
> 
> -2 sidewalk crews of 4 persons.
> -6 pickup trucks w/ minimum 8ft blades
> -1 Loader w/ minimum 10ft pusher to stack snow and upkeep one parking lot.
> -2 trucks with salters to hit these lots, could probably use 3-4 if your busy.
> 
> Also, how far apart are the stores? If they are not within 20-30 minutes winter driving time, your going to want to make sure that you have 1-2 trucks as backup.
> 
> You will loose that contract so fast if you can't have EVERY LOT cleared AND salted prior to store opening at 8am (7am during holidays). Also, to get salt down you will have to have the first lot cleared by 5:30 am latest to make it with 2 salt trucks. That would be cutting it close too!


Thank you for a quality response. Like I said I want to see what it will take from people with experience. I don't want this guy to lose this contract, and I do want to make some serious money by being able to hold onto this contract as well.

Any other serious responses are appreciated.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Crash935

erkoehler;611733 said:


> I WOULD NOT ATTEMPT THIS CONTRACT OF 6 STORES WITHOUT THE FOLLOWING:
> 
> -2 sidewalk crews of 4 persons. They will need 4 snow blowers, 2 ATV's, salt spreaders, shovels, salt, 2 trucks to move equipment, and trailers.
> -6 pickup trucks w/ minimum 8ft blades
> -1 Loader w/ minimum 10ft pusher to stack snow and upkeep one parking lot.
> -2 trucks with salters to hit these lots, could probably use 3-4 if your busy.
> 
> Also, how far apart are the stores? If they are not within 20-30 minutes winter driving time, your going to want to make sure that you have 1-2 trucks as backup.
> 
> You will loose that contract so fast if you can't have EVERY LOT cleared AND salted prior to store opening at 8am (7am during holidays). Also, to get salt down you will have to have the first lot cleared by 5:30 am latest to make it with 2 salt trucks. That would be cutting it close too!


heres your answer as to what you need to get the job done.


----------



## erkoehler

See updated response below:

WOULD NOT ATTEMPT THIS CONTRACT OF 6 STORES WITHOUT THE FOLLOWING:

-2 sidewalk crews of 4 persons. They will need 4 snow blowers, 2 ATV's, salt spreaders, shovels, salt, 2 trucks to move equipment, and trailers.
-6 pickup trucks w/ minimum 8ft blades
-2 Loader w/ minimum 10ft pusher to stack snow and upkeep two parking lot.
-2 trucks with salters to hit these lots, could probably use 3-4 if your busy.


----------



## JD Dave

First off, is that 3k/lot or 3k for all 6?


----------



## lilweeds

3 grand for 6 sites is a bit low too.... might want to recheck your price structure too.


----------



## capnsac

iceyman;611741 said:


> 6 loaders and probably 9 to 12 trucks depending on the size of the lots....im sure thats in your arsenal thoprsport


No, it's not. But really, 6 loaders? How quickly do we need to accomplish these lots?


----------



## iceyman

JD Dave;611747 said:


> First off, is that 3k/lot or 3k for all 6?


My cut would be $1500 per target as it stands for right now.


----------



## lilweeds

How will you move them from lot to lot when it's snowing. Yes a big lot needs a loader.


----------



## capnsac

No, $3,000/lot. They used to have a different price structure, they would pay a set price monthly. The snow hasn't been as abundant lately so they were losing their shorts on it. Now it's on a per push basis.


----------



## erkoehler

capnsac;611749 said:


> No, it's not. But really, 6 loaders? *How quickly do we need to accomplish these lots?*


Unless it is still snowing like a banshee, store managers will not tolerate a lot w/ snow on it when they open each morning. Plus, salt must be spread too prior to opening!

Oh, and don't forget loading docks open at 6am, and employees start arriving at 5:15 for the bakery! You then get to plow around their cars if your not done!


----------



## capnsac

erkoehler;611758 said:


> Unless it is still snowing like a banshee, store managers will not tolerate a lot w/ snow on it when they open each morning. Plus, salt must be spread too prior to opening!
> 
> Oh, and don't forget loading docks open at 6am, and employees start arriving at 5:15 for the bakery! You then get to plow around their cars if your not done!


Ok, I will definitely take that into account. Thank you for the advice. I appreciate all the help so far guys. Now the planning must be set into motion to get all the equipment/guys in place to achieve this momentous task.

$1500/store is 100% out of the question now. $85/hour is not however.


----------



## lilweeds

$85 an hour will barely cover your expenses if that.


----------



## capnsac

rsvees;611752 said:


> How will you move them from lot to lot when it's snowing. Yes a big lot needs a loader.


I have a lawn and landscaping business that I run and the guy I am getting into this with is a transporter so we have the trailers. The question is how are we going to fill those trailers....


----------



## erkoehler

Think about the time associated with loading/unloading equipment and travel time! You don't have time to move loaders in the middle of the storm.

You need to be able to clear all lots without moving a loader during a storm. If needed, you can move a loader after the storm and push back piles.


----------



## capnsac

rsvees;611769 said:


> $85 an hour will barely cover your expenses if that.


Forgive me if this comes off as sarcastic, but you're telling me that if it snows an average of 12 times (NE average) a year, and I work 10 hours per time, also charging $45 per hour for each blower/guy that I won't come out ahead? Lets figure that out;

10x$85 = 850
10x$90 = 900
Total = $1750/snow

Deduct
Gas = $200
Employee pay = $300
Maintenance to truck every 2 years, depreciation expense = $83.33
Plow is paid for
Total = $583.33

Total Gross Annual Profit = $21,000
Total Gross Annual Expenses = $6999.96
Profit = 14,001

I won't be paying for any of the salt/sand, that expense will be on him. These are just rough estimates, could be off, but can't foresee the expense being that much more. Again, let me know.


----------



## MileHigh

I would think that the only way to do this is to have at least two/three trucks @ each site with sidewalk crews as well each time it snows. That way all of the sites would get done at the same time.

Know there's no way in hell your getting 50% of the cut when all you have is one truck and NO experience pushing...(You know how many people you'll piss off plowing your first year at a place like target?) Sounds like you guys need a lot of Sub Contractors and some employees to get this task accomplished...I think It can still be profitable though.

How does your friend get contracts like this anyway?..Does he have workmans comp?..Cause I'm sure that's required for a contract like a Target. You would think that someone trying to tackle a contract like a TARGET would already have it all figured out.jmo


----------



## capnsac

erkoehler;611775 said:


> Think about the time associated with loading/unloading equipment and travel time! You don't have time to move loaders in the middle of the storm.
> 
> You need to be able to clear all lots without moving a loader during a storm. If needed, you can move a loader after the storm and push back piles.


Ok, so basically get the lot clear and make a pile in the back of the lot for a loader to pick up at a later time. Not much later, maybe 3-4 hours after lots have been cleared, salted & sanded?


----------



## erkoehler

$83.33 for maintenance of a truck during the time period of 2 years! That will barely cover oil changes..........what do you do when a trans goes out?


----------



## erkoehler

capnsac;611794 said:


> Ok, so basically get the lot clear and make a pile in the back of the lot for a loader to pick up at a later time. Not much later, maybe 3-4 hours after lots have been cleared, salted & sanded?


No pile, just push as far off lot as possible w/ trucks then when no room left bring in a loader to push back the piles along the curbs.


----------



## capnsac

bladescape2;611791 said:


> I would think that the only way to do this is to have at least two/three trucks @ each site with sidewalk crews as well each time it snows. That way all of the sites would get done at the same time.
> 
> Know there's no way in hell your getting 50% of the cut when all you have is one truck and NO experience pushing...(You know how many people you'll piss off plowing your first year at a place like target?) Sounds like you guys need a lot of Sub Contractors and some employees to get this task accomplished...I think It can still be profitable though.
> 
> How does your friend get contracts like this anyway?..Does he have workmans comp?..Cause I'm sure that's required for a contract like a Target. You would think that someone trying to tackle a contract like a TARGET would already have it all figured out.jmo


I have 2,000,000 general liability as well as workmans comp, he has the same. He could very well have it all figured out already and this could be one big learning experience for me. I would rather plan too much though then not enough.


----------



## IMAGE

Ok if your really serious you must be very nieve. 

But ok, I'll play.

Here's a sensible idea... why dont you just admit to Target that your not equiped to handle 6 stores, but that you and your friend would be happy to do 1 of the stores. Maybe 2 of them if they are close to each other. Hire 2 subs. You at one lot with your truck plus a sub'd truck. Your buddy doing the same at the other lot. You and your buddy both need a vbox salter (and a salt supply and way to load it-- possibly buy it at a local source that is open during the storm and loads it for you).

So you both get your lot done by 7am. Congrats. but your piles take up to much room, and will have to be pushed back. So make friends with someone local(probally another plow company) that has one and will push your piles back when they get to big. Expect to spend $400+ to have this done each time.

You should have 2 extra subs available incase of problems. 

That seems alot more feasible to me. 1-2 stores in stead of 6. You should still make ok money each plow. maybe 1500-2000 depending on how much the sub costs, and how often you need to pay to push the piles back.

Then again-- i do apartments and resi's, havent gotten into big lots yet because I dont want to sink the ship in the harbor.


----------



## capnsac

erkoehler;611795 said:


> $83.33 for maintenance of a truck during the time period of 2 years! That will barely cover oil changes..........what do you do when a trans goes out?


83.33 per snow, take that times 12, then multiply that by 2.

And I have known several guys who have successfully plowed 5+ years without ever having to replace a tranny.


----------



## capnsac

IMAGE;611803 said:


> Ok if your really serious you must be very nieve.
> 
> But ok, I'll play.
> 
> Here's a sensible idea... why dont you just admit to Target that your not equiped to handle 6 stores, but that you and your friend would be happy to do 1 of the stores. Maybe 2 of them if they are close to each other. Hire 2 subs. You at one lot with your truck plus a sub'd truck. Your buddy doing the same at the other lot. You and your buddy both need a vbox salter (and a salt supply and way to load it-- possibly buy it at a local source that is open during the storm and loads it for you).
> 
> So you both get your lot done by 7am. Congrats. but your piles take up to much room, and will have to be pushed back. So make friends with someone local(probally another plow company) that has one and will push your piles back when they get to big. Expect to spend $400+ to have this done each time.
> 
> You should have 2 extra subs available incase of problems.
> 
> That seems alot more feasible to me. 1-2 stores in stead of 6. You should still make ok money each plow. maybe 1500-2000 depending on how much the sub costs, and how often you need to pay to push the piles back.
> 
> Then again-- i do apartments and resi's, havent gotten into big lots yet because I dont want to sink the ship in the harbor.


I am extremely green. I am also extremely humble. I am hoping that with the combined wisdom on this site that I can gain enough knowledge to be able to handle this contract. 1-2 contracts would be nice, and if that is an alternative option I would jump at that chance. Also, since I have been in the lawn/landscape business for several years I have many people that can help out with moving the piles when they get too big.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## ducatirider944

I'll bite the bait like this is for real. Just read the first post to this thread
http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=66279

You really want to bite this off with never of plowed and a buddy that has plowed a few times? If your buddy had any Idea of this business and has plowed on any kind of a regular basis he would have the common sense to see how fricking dumb this idea is! With this being said I am pretty confident that he has no clue what you guys are getting into. You may take this post as I'm bashing you and not helping you, but trust me I am helping. There was a guy saying that you guys should get contracts on a few small lots and go from there. That is giving you good advice. Note the question in my post about that pot of gold being at the end of the tunnel. It won't be there for you. This is just bad business planning and a good way to plan for failure. But hey what do I know? At best you will just lose the contract after the first snow and not be sued to the point where your future kids will be paying your debt.


----------



## capnsac

Okay so I found out today it's only 2 Targets. I will keep my profit at $1500 per store. I feel confident we'll be able to get this done. Have a crew of guys blowing as well as me and him plowing. If anything have one more guy plowing, but that's about it.


----------



## NorthernSvc's

i would stay far far away from such a large contract especially your first year. you don't have the equipment you need yet. what happens if you get dumped on with 12+inches? during the day? it aint gonna happen with one truck. i would run if i were u


----------



## extra mile

*dock hours*

As one of the lucky ones that delivers the trailers to Target stores. The dock has to be open all the time. We don't always know when we will get to the store with their new trailer. If we get delayed we start billing Target for the detention. When that happens the Distribution Center starts making calls to any one and everyone at the store.


----------



## ducatirider944

capnsac;612164 said:


> Okay so I found out today it's only 2 Targets. I will keep my profit at $1500 per store. I feel confident we'll be able to get this done. Have a crew of guys blowing as well as me and him plowing. If anything have one more guy plowing, but that's about it.


Ok, ego boy. There has been multipule members that have been in the business for multiple years telling you to not do this. Let's add up the tally why don't we. So those of you that have told him to run when you post say how many years you have been on your own or subbing and add it to mine.

Ducatirider 10 years+

Yep, that extra truck your thinking about adding will be the slam dunk to this moronic plan. So is this third plow guy the village idiot that got to go on vacation for the winter? Who is going to cover for the village's idiot? But, I guess since some people won't even get the picture when you hit them in the head with a frying pan, I personally would get 10' boss V-plows for all three of the trucks you are going to put on. If you can rent a bobcat with rubber tracks and put a 10' pusher box on it as well, I think you could just maybe pull this off!


----------



## RichG53

I'm sorry to say but I think you are putting your $$$$ before your cents....From what I have read this sounds like a pretty big task to take on espeacly with your inexperience...I know the big $$$$ is like bait on a hook..Try smaller first........Other wise Good Luck ! ! !


----------



## SnoFarmer

Listen to these guys.
Sarcastic or not.

You'll lose your shirt and end up getting sued by target

Do you have all the necessary equipment.
loaders.
salters.
shoveler/ snow blowers
4 more 3/4 ton or bigger trucks with the proper plows?.
a back up plan for when things break?.
(so you know some one who has plowed for 5 years and they have not blown a trammy
SO,
Were they plowing a big lot? Did they have deadlines to make? Thire not you or your equipment.
Everything breaks even loaders..)

Do you have them rented yet? (loaders with a big pusher?s)
You will need one for each Target.
How do you plain on doing 2 at once?

That's another crew with a loader, snow blowers more salt etc etc.



You just saw 3k a storm and thought it would be easy money...
A seasoned business man who has a landscaping business would have foreseen these major hurtles.


Do you have 20tons of salt( and estimated amount). for each store.
Make a few calls and see if you can get any at $125 a ton... if you can even get a ton..
Most large supplies were bought in Aug.

just something to think about.
Good luck you'll need it.

ps have you talked to your insurance guy yet ...$$$

How about plowing a few drives?


----------



## Camden

This guy is the reason why ALL major companies should require contractors to be bonded. I know some already do but there are many who don't require it.

I don't know how Target operates but I hope they require this guy to carry at least a $50k bond so that when he doesn't perform they can seize it in order to pay a qualified contractor.

Talk about ridiculous


----------



## Kingwinter

Sorry I'm late to the thread here- but I have personally plowed a supertarget all winter long last winter. 

We had a 10ft pusher on a bobcat and a 3/4 truck with a 9 ft v plow. The first snow we had 5" and we there at 2pm, about 3 hours after it started. It stopped about 10pm. We barely had it done by 8 am the next morning running all night long no breaks. We didnt completely finish until about 10AM Here's why

A. (Biggest problem) All Targets have a designated area to pile snow. and I mean, one pile, thats it. You have to push the snow around the front, around the back, and in one big pile. No widthrowing whatsoever. Doing this with anything but a big pusher is a joke. 

B. Do you know how many goddamn islands and light poles there are to plow around? Holy crap. Its horrible that alone takes forever.

C. See letter A. 


The following storms we got a loader out there with a pusher, in addition to the bobcat and truck. Even with that, we still had to move to get it done by opening. 

Sorry if I sound harsh, but im just telling you what you will get yourself into.


----------



## JD Dave

Camden;612457 said:


> This guy is the reason why ALL major companies should require contractors to be bonded. I know some already do but there are many who don't require it.
> 
> I don't know how Target operates but I hope they require this guy to carry at least a $50k bond so that when he doesn't perform they can seize it in order to pay a qualified contractor.
> 
> Talk about ridiculous


I totally agree, a performance bond for the amount of the contract is a great idea.



Kingwinter;612485 said:


> Sorry I'm late to the thread here- but I have personally plowed a supertarget all winter long last winter.
> 
> We had a 10ft pusher on a bobcat and a 3/4 truck with a 9 ft v plow. The first snow we had 5" and we there at 2pm, about 3 hours after it started. It stopped about 10pm. We barely had it done by 8 am the next morning running all night long no breaks. We didnt completely finish until about 10AM Here's why
> 
> A. (Biggest problem) All Targets have a designated area to pile snow. and I mean, one pile, thats it. You have to push the snow around the front, around the back, and in one big pile. No widthrowing whatsoever. Doing this with anything but a big pusher is a joke.
> 
> B. Do you know how many goddamn islands and light poles there are to plow around? Holy crap. Its horrible that alone takes forever.
> 
> C. See letter A.
> 
> The following storms we got a loader out there with a pusher, in addition to the bobcat and truck. Even with that, we still had to move to get it done by opening.
> 
> Sorry if I sound harsh, but im just telling you what you will get yourself into.


Finally someone that's plowed one, listen to him.


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

Absolute MINIMUM amount of equipment.

- 2 skidsteers with 10' pushers or 1 loader with a 14-16'er
- 2 pickups 1 with a salter
- 1 sidewalk crew

This is PER store. Just MY opinion


----------



## Superior L & L

NICHOLS LANDSCA;612531 said:


> Absolute MINIMUM amount of equipment.
> 
> - 2 skidsteers with 10' pushers or 1 loader with a 14-16'er
> - 2 pickups 1 with a salter
> - 1 sidewalk crew
> 
> This is PER store. Just MY opinion


WOW your Targets must be monsters compared to the ones around me. The three Targets in my area are 4-5 acres at best A Bobcat with a 7.5' blade could get the walks and feed the loader(not many islands). I would guess a back Hoe with a 14' pusher and the Bobcat could wrap the lot up in two hours. Then off to the next lot


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA

Superior L & L;612629 said:


> WOW your Targets must be monsters compared to the ones around me. The three Targets in my area are 4-5 acres at best A Bobcat with a 7.5' blade could get the walks and feed the loader(not many islands). I would guess a back Hoe with a 14' pusher and the Bobcat could wrap the lot up in two hours. Then off to the next lot


Well you must be SUPER MAN!!!!:salute:


----------



## Crash935

Capnsac,

I know most of the guys who are trying to give you advice. Combine all of our years and your probably looking at 150+ years of snow removal experience! You dont even have an idea what is involved in snowplowing yet alone if you can even plow. I know, your probably thinking, "it cant be that hard, theres alot of guys doing it". Trust me, there are people who will NEVER LEARN to plow snow even if all they had to do was follow the tire tracks of another truck all night.

You and your buddy are atleast 4 months behind schedule for trying to pull this off. Salt supplies are the lowest they have been in years, if you havent already ordered and paid for your salt, you probably wont be getting ANY for one night let alone the whole season. Good subs were signed months ago so you will probably be hiring the village idiot like someone else said. Just because there is loaders and skid steers down at the equipment dealer doesnt mean they are up for lease for snowremoval.

Were not trying to burst your bubble because were envious or just dont have anything better to do. We have plowed everything from a driveway to industrial complexes 20+ times larger than a Target and dont want to see someone get into a situation that they obvisoly cant handle.


----------



## Superior L & L

nichols landsca;612639 said:


> well you must be super man!!!!:salute:


no i am the super snow man !!!!

NOTE: Im just B.S.ing this dude im not that full of myself. But you can call me Clark Kent LOL


----------



## AJ Watson

*dont do it*

From a omaha snow contractor. I been in business for over 8 years on my own. Do not take this contract. I guessing you are in contact with True North Services. They low ball all the big stores around omaha, They run junk equipment and cheap subs with junk equipment. As for 12 snow occurrences a year? When is the last time it snowed 12 times in omaha in one year, Plan on 5-7 storms and get to go out 10-12 for misc things. I don't want to get you down but go get some small stores or lots and start there. If you need some advice send me a message.


----------



## Sno4U

capnsac;611749 said:


> No, it's not. But really, 6 loaders? How quickly do we need to accomplish these lots?


Whoaa! You don't know what equipment you'll need, but you DO know that's enough money
If your serving a "region" of Target stores and six of them at that, I'm pretty certain your talking some pretty good distances between them. 2 guys w/ trucks (and even if they had a sidewalk crew) would never be able to handle this.
I think your trying to bite off more than u can chew-especially w/ NO plowing experience.
Am I to understand that your friend has already been awarded the contract? It would seem that whoever is in charge of these Target Stores is pretty irresponsible to hire a contractor w/o even checking to see if he has the PROPER equipment and personnel to handle it.
Good luck Coo-Coo man


----------



## JohnnyRoyale

For me the idea of entertaining a property this size would have ended when I read "Pay per Push". $3000 per event (with no guarantees) is cheap-should be double IMO. Even if it snows 10 times, $30K wont go too far to cover all the costs associated with maintaining that property and your overhead. These people want service, and wont hesitate to hold back money and then sue your pants off if/when you screw up. The exposure to liability with these types of retail contracts is huge-(trust me, I've been there done that). Good luck with whatever you decide, but i would agree to let this one go (esp at those terms). 

And, you refer to $1500 being your profit on the job. Once you deduct your direct and inderect expenses to do the job from your share ($1500.00)-you'd be lucky to come out of it with a coffee and muffin in the morning. Is it possible your buddy isnt telling you something? Like he got the job at $5000.00 per push, or $XX.XX amount monthly, and hes reeling you in. I'd want to see his agreement with Target to validate him. Just my .02.


----------



## redman6565

this guy is nuts...two pick ups on a lot like that...haha that'll be interesting


----------



## lumps

redman6565;613026 said:


> this guy is nuts...two pick ups on a lot like that...haha that'll be interesting


Two pickups, with inexperienced drivers, on several lots like that... even better!

Seriously, to the original poster, I'm not sure what kind of storms you get out there, but around here, we can see 1-2 feet easily. Do you have any idea how long it takes to clear a lot that size, especially into a single pile, when there's that much snow? And with two inexperienced guys in pickups to boot?? You're talking days, and they need it done in hours.


----------



## bribrius

sorry to bother you.

i have been offered a deal to plow all the taco bells in the country. i will get 100 dollars per taco bell.
i have a john deere ride around lawnmower with a 36' blade for walks and a awd subaru forester im hoping to get a light duty, commercial plow for.
I was wondering if you think this is a good deal or if i should ask for maybe 115 a taco bell.
Also approx. (i know you cant give exact unless the taco bell is in your area) what you would charge and how long it would take you.
thanks.


----------



## grandview

bribrius;614251 said:


> sorry to bother you.
> 
> i have been offered a deal to plow all the taco bells in the country. i will get 100 dollars per taco bell.
> i have a john deere ride around lawnmower with a 36' blade for walks and a awd subaru forester im hoping to get a light duty, commercial plow for.
> I was wondering if you think this is a good deal or if i should ask for maybe 115 a taco bell.
> Also approx. (i know you cant give exact unless the taco bell is in your area) what you would charge and how long it would take you.
> thanks.


At lease your have a illegal sidewalk crew available at ea. store.


----------



## MileHigh

bribrius;614251 said:


> sorry to bother you.
> 
> i have been offered a deal to plow all the taco bells in the country. i will get 100 dollars per taco bell.
> i have a john deere ride around lawnmower with a 36' blade for walks and a awd subaru forester im hoping to get a light duty, commercial plow for.
> I was wondering if you think this is a good deal or if i should ask for maybe 115 a taco bell.
> Also approx. (i know you cant give exact unless the taco bell is in your area) what you would charge and how long it would take you.
> thanks.


thats a good one bri...lol


----------



## grandview

If you think about it a 100 bucks per store is good. I know I'll start a maintenance company and sub all the work out for 25 .00 and make 75.00 sitting home


----------



## Farm Boss

bribrius;614251 said:


> sorry to bother you.
> 
> i have been offered a deal to plow all the taco bells in the country. i will get 100 dollars per taco bell.
> i have a john deere ride around lawnmower with a 36' blade for walks and a awd subaru forester im hoping to get a light duty, commercial plow for.
> I was wondering if you think this is a good deal or if i should ask for maybe 115 a taco bell.
> Also approx. (i know you cant give exact unless the taco bell is in your area) what you would charge and how long it would take you.
> thanks.


Are you sure that you will need a lawn mower that big, sounds like an over kill. Go with a self propelled mulcher and just mulch it. Also a awd subaru isn't going to get as good of milage as a metro, so I think that would be more practical to drive acrross the country. I'd go with the 9.2 V blade tho on the metro


----------



## ducatirider944

Farm Boss;614488 said:


> Are you sure that you will need a lawn mower that big, sounds like an over kill. Go with a self propelled mulcher and just mulch it. Also a awd subaru isn't going to get as good of milage as a metro, so I think that would be more practical to drive acrross the country. I'd go with the 9.2 V blade tho on the metro


No, No, No! The metro is a good idea, but it is only front wheel drive. He needs more ballast over the front wheels for traction. Go with a 10' V It has about 350# more weight for better traction and you will clear an extra 1' with each pass.

Side note, This has gotten way off the topic of this thread. Let's get it back on track to the real thread of a newbie thinking there would be no road blocks in going out on his own with a buddy plowing something the size of a super target.

Capnsac: Most of the people on here are trying to help you out. We aren't trying to drag you into the bathroom at school and beat you up. If you can take constructive criticism and learn from it, you will have no problem making it in business. If you can't you you will fail. You don't think any of us had dreams that got crushed? Things always look better on paper and in your mind than they really are. If you learned anything in this thread, even if it was harsh, you will be better in the long run.


----------



## M&M

It's too bad that we will most likely never get an update on this one.


----------



## IMAGE

M&M;617940 said:


> It's too bad that we will most likely never get an update on this one.


because it was obivously a farse from the beginning.

Trick or Treat.


----------



## bribrius

LOWBALLER

DAMN lowballer took my taco bells.
he is doing each taco bell for 79 dollars a piece and they are giving him a double decker taco for every ton of snow.

I HATE LOWBALLERS.
i guess he has the toyota prius hybrid with a snow bear..


----------



## Crash935

M&M;617940 said:


> It's too bad that we will most likely never get an update on this one.


He has logged on today.

I would like to see what he decided if it was for real.


----------



## pitrack

capnsac;612164 said:


> Okay so I found out today it's only 2 Targets. I will keep my profit at $1500 per store. I feel confident we'll be able to get this done. Have a crew of guys blowing as well as me and him plowing. If anything have one more guy plowing, but that's about it.


You guys need anymore help?


----------



## MattS

Which 2 targets is it? The one on Maple wouldn't be to bad or 84th. But that one over off L street would suck. Too many islands. Last year I helped plow a church lot that was about the same size as the target lot on maple. It took 4 trucks about 3 hours to get done. We plowed it all to one end. That saved a TON of time. And the lot only has a few light poles and 1 island. That was JUST snow removal. No sidewalks or salting. 

Don't forget about all the stray carts and cars that get left all over. :angry:

Good luck. I think you are going to need it. PM me if you want my cell and I might be able to come out and help finish if you get in a bind. 

One thing you are not even considering is fixing equipment. I put a $6k trans in my truck this summer. That's a few lots.


----------



## Team_Arctic

wow thats alot of stuff to take in.. and i thought i was biting off a big chunk this year by getting back all of the contracts i sent out. i had to hire 3 more subs and i think im still under staffed with about 12 hours of pushing per unit


----------



## edmioduski

I can't believe I just read all of that. Everyone should have just said NO NO NO and I would have quit reading after 2 min and went to another thread. Instead I actually kept readiing to see what this guy had to say next. If this was a joke, please don't do that again. I actually feel sick to my stomach that there's one inexperienced guy that thinks Target is easy. That means there's a hundred inexperienced guys that think they can do my lots. This is my first post and thank you all for the thousands of good posts I've read already over the past two years.


----------



## Crash935

edmioduski;619574 said:


> I can't believe I just read all of that. Everyone should have just said NO NO NO and I would have quit reading after 2 min and went to another thread.


If we all would have just said NO this thread would have ended on the first page, but as a new member you will learn that we have to keep the entertainment factor on the higher end of the scale. Along with the fact that some guys here have nothing better to do while they wait for the snow!


----------



## Mike_PS

time to put this one to bed


----------

