# Having a hard time pricing commercial lots



## PeterFGL (Aug 19, 2017)

Hello all,

I have been having a hard time pricing commercial lots here in southern Maine (25 mins from NH border, 1.5 hours from Boston, high tourist community, coastal.)

Just today I gave a price for a 15,000 ft2 restaurant lot. The entire property is a rectangle at 18,000 ft2 with a 3,000 sq ft2 restaurant right in the middle. Five doorways to shovel but they are easy shoveling maybe 5 minutes each doorway. Snow can be piled up on two sides of property so some snow would have to be moved to those areas.

I gave them a price of $150 every 3" of snow to plow + shovel doorways. I originally was at $150 with a 50% increase every 3" but the lady looked at me like I was crazy so I told her I could do the $150 every 3" and leave it at that. 

I am new to the area last season and it seems hit or miss up here.

I asked what they are currently paying and she said something along the lines of $75 every 4" of snow which seems crazy to me. I told her to stick with the guy she has and that I don't know how he is making money. He / they are supposedly increasing prices this season which is why they are looking for someone else.

I understand the cost of living is lower up here but not that much!!

Thanks for the help!


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Every 3" seriously?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

PeterFGL said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have been having a hard time pricing commercial lots here in southern Maine (25 mins from NH border, 1.5 hours from Boston, high tourist community, coastal.)
> 
> ...


You wouldn't get that here, not for every three inches.


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## PeterFGL (Aug 19, 2017)

So do you think that is too high? 

I estimate one truck 45 mins to plow and shovel 5 doorways every visit keeping the lot open during a storm.

Snow needs to be pushed to two sides of that lot as well. It is hard for me to believe that I am that far off. I wouldn't feel comfortable going any more than 3" increments. 

Maybe I am way off, that is why I am posting here. 

Salt price was $225 to salt the lot.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

PeterFGL said:


> . I wouldn't feel comfortable going any more than 3" increments.


Really....lemmie ax you this.
How many times have you driven into, on to, or next to a lot that is covered in ice and tire tracks? 
Have you ever tried to plow all that hard pac?

Then there's the liability of someone on that hard pac falling.
So 3" is NOT a good trigger point


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## PeterFGL (Aug 19, 2017)

OK, so then what would you recommend for increments?

I never said my trigger was 3" just that I would be charging in 3" increments.

I am trying to figure out if my pricing is way off or not....


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Only thing I can relate this to. I do a dinner. I hit it so I'm finishing up when he opens. If its snowing during the day, I will hit what I can because there are cars there. Heavy storm, at night, I do not let it build up crazy, I hit it during the night. About same size, 85.00 a hit.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

PeterFGL said:


> I never said my trigger was 3" just that I would be charging in 3" increments.


Correct I read that wrong.
1_3 150.00
3.1_5.0 ?
5.1_8.0 ? 
And your salt for the lot is 225.
Not sure of your operating costs, or area pricing.


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## PeterFGL (Aug 19, 2017)

0-3 - 150
3.1-6 - +150
6.1-9 - +150
9-12 - +150


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So you think you can get $200/hour and $550/ton for salt or whatever you're spreading? In Maine?

Assuming 1 ton per acre which is really high.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

1 ton an acre is gravel road high....The only time I have spread a ton an acre is when my spinner has come up missing and I was to hung over to notice........:terribletowel:....lowred:.......:waving:


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Defcon 5 said:


> 1 ton an acre is gravel road high....The only time I have spread a ton an acre is when my spinner has come up missing and I was to hung over to notice........:terribletowel:....lowred:.......:waving:


That was pretty funny.


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## PeterFGL (Aug 19, 2017)

So I re thought this property and even though I don't think I am going to get it because I already soured the customer with prior pricing, I am at $95 every 3" of snow and $175 per app of salt.


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## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

Im in southern NH - very fair to me, maybe a tad high as a 15000sq' square lot shouldnt take you more than 15 minutes to do. 20 min max with shoveling. $100 is a bit better. and $75-$125 to salt. if its in the sun you wont need more than a 300lbs of salt to melt it off. 1"-2" triggers MAX and dont price by the inches, you'll be arguing with them on bills because they think they got 6" and you really got 8"-10" according to your reports. Not worth the hassle IMO. seasonal or per push only. One of my lots if just shy of an acre - its a gas station and another across the street thats a warehouse both around an acre and they take 35ish minutes to do per pass. we do a few lots around 15000-20000sq' and they take us 15-20 to keep open. We run 9.6 fisher v plows


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## PeterFGL (Aug 19, 2017)

It is not a wide open lot either. The snow has to be pushed to two sides of the lot around the dwelling in the middle so it's not a nice easy 1,2,3.

Bulk salt is no where to be found in my area so I am forced to use bagged salt. I can get it around $6 a bag but have to travel for that price. I can get coated salt for about $9 within 30mins. I like to estimate things on the safe side so I would be at about 1,500ft2 coverage per bag for straight rock salt.


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## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

PeterFGL said:


> It is not a wide open lot either. The snow has to be pushed to two sides of the lot around the dwelling in the middle so it's not a nice easy 1,2,3.
> 
> Bulk salt is no where to be found in my area so I am forced to use bagged salt. I can get it around $6 a bag but have to travel for that price. I can get coated salt for about $9 within 30mins. I like to estimate things on the safe side so I would be at about 1,500ft2 coverage per bag for straight rock salt.


where in Maine are you?


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## PeterFGL (Aug 19, 2017)

Headquartered out of Wells.


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## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

PeterFGL said:


> Headquartered out of Wells.


theres no landscape supply yard around you that sells bulk salt?? unfortunately you cant buy by the yard at the salt yard at the bridge


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## PeterFGL (Aug 19, 2017)

Not that I know of. The closest place I have heard of is in NH. I think most guys are large enough that they get bulk delivered to their yards. I don't have a yard so don't have that luxury nor a loader for that matter but I'm not complaining I'm fine with bagged and in my situation right now would be beneficial. 

We just moved up here not too long ago so I am still trying to getting used to pricing, suppliers, etc.


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## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

stock piling definitely is great! we stock pile now such a time saver! but if you dont have the means to load ya that wouldnt work. Youre just going to be battling chasing pallets throughout the winter if you cant find a bulk supplier and have a spreader


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## PeterFGL (Aug 19, 2017)

Yea it's looking like that is how it's going to have to go this season but everyone has to start somewhere! Thanks for the help.


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## wilsonsground (Jun 29, 2012)

PeterFGL said:


> Yea it's looking like that is how it's going to have to go this season but everyone has to start somewhere! Thanks for the help.


give granite state minerals in portsmouth a call and see if you are able to come pickup by the ton. worth a shot


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## PeterFGL (Aug 19, 2017)

Ill look in to it. Thanks again I appreciate it.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

PeterFGL said:


> The snow has to be pushed to two sides of the lot around the dwelling in the middle so it's not a nice easy 1,2,3.


I'm confused....what do you mean by "pushed to 2 sides of the lot"?

Isn't that called windrowing? It is in Michigan. Can you do a circle around the building?

Post up a pic. This sounds like a normal restaurant lot that should take 15-20 minutes.

Heck, I did 10+ acres in an hour and a half once. Couple inches of snow. Yes, I was flying. Blizzard 8611 and 16' Ebling.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm confused....what do you mean by "pushed to 2 sides of the lot"?
> 
> Isn't that called windrowing? It is in Michigan. Can you do a circle around the building?
> 
> ...


Sure you did....I bet it looked spectacular


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## The Snow Punishers (Sep 30, 2018)

In NY especially the lower areas our rates are different. Around here I've found and people have told me price out based on acre an hour, personally I do 40,000sq ft in my calculations to make it simpler.

Divide your sq ft taking into account the difficulty of the push and divide by your rate of completion then multiply by hourly rate. 

So say for me I do a residential driveway (say 2,500sq ft) at 650/hr (going rate apparently here, high cost of living and insurance) the calculation is 
(2,500/40,000)x(650)= $40

Same applies to commercial unless your rate is different then put in new rate..
So a 20,000sq ft lot is
(20,000/40,000)x(650)= 325

You guys will laugh at price probably but it works out here overhead is high


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