# Beginner FAQ's / Advice



## WarriorLandscapingCan

Hey guys, just trying to absorb as much as I can before I begin my first snow season as a business owner.

Looking back at your first year, what do you think you would differently this time around?

If you were to run into your 25 year old self, what advice would you give him / her ?


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## FredG

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Hey guys, just trying to absorb as much as I can before I begin my first snow season as a business owner.
> 
> Looking back at your first year, what do you think you would differently this time around?
> 
> If you were to run into your 25 year old self, what advice would you give him / her ?


Go slow your first year till you get your feet wet. It was different for me because I had no landscape customers requesting service. I'm in the construction biz. To many things to list what I would have done different not just my first year a bunch of years. Try not to go in debt is a start. Get you 30-35 drives lined up and work your way into small commercial. You will grow with time as your name gets out there. Good luck and read as many post as you can. This ps site is a world of good info.


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## Philbilly2

Gooo...

If I ran into myself at 25... first off I would kick my own a$$ an tell myself to listen to my dad more... now that that is out of the way.

One of the things that my dad told me when I first got into plowing snow was to replace your main equipment every three years... I told him he was just not as good of a wrencher as I was... well, leading into quite a few snow events, I found myself scrambling to get things fixed to go out... while he sat on the couch at his house and told me I told you... 3 and out... 3 and out.

Watch your bottom line... don't do work just to do work... you need to make money, or just let it go. You will make more money letting work go that will not be profitable than you will doing it just to do it. I have told guys that you don't want to watch your pennies... it the the nickles and dimes that you want to watch. I have watched guys trip over dollars to get at pennies... no good.


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## Philbilly2

FredG said:


> Go slow your first year till you get your feet wet.
> 
> Try not to go in debt is a start.


Better info than I gave you here.

Grow as your pocket book allows you to, not as your head wants you to.

Good call Fred!!!


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## kimber750

Philbilly2 said:


> Watch your bottom line... don't do work just to do work... you need to make money, or just let it go. You will make more money letting work go that will not be profitable than you will doing it just to do it. I have told guys that you don't want to watch your pennies... it the the nickles and dimes that you want to watch. I have watched guys trip over dollars to get at pennies... no good.


This right here, no point in working to break even. If you bid the job this way it will one take one breakdown to start losing money.

Only other suggestion is to take care of your valuable employees.


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## FredG

If I listen to half of what my elders told me I would had a easier start. In many different respects.


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## Philbilly2

FredG said:


> If I listen to half of what my elders told me I would had a easier start. In many different respects.


Does that have anything to do with sticking a fork in an electrical outlet????


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Lol thanks guys!

I'll keep you posted on my first season progress.

On a side-note,

Does your body ever get used to the early mornings?

Do you guys tend to plow all night / morning and then sleep all afternoon?

I think I have a rude awakening coming my way the first few snowfalls !


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## SnoFarmer

keep it in ur pants.

get use to gettint up at 12am to call the crew, naw its a lifestyle


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## JMHConstruction

kimber750 said:


> This right here, no point in working to break even. If you bid the job this way it will one take one breakdown to start losing money.
> 
> Only other suggestion is to take care of your valuable employees.


Yes, make sure you know your numbers. My biggest mistake was not being ready to be a business man (you've been in lawn care, so this isn't an issue). I have been doing snow removal for longer, but haven't been on my own full time too long. This was my hardest year, I was literally working to break even. It's a little different story, but I would sub to "get by" thinking real work would pick up. Well it did, but I can't even begin to tell you how hard it is waking up in the morning knowing you aren't making money. Luckily other than my truck nothing went too wrong. I knew this summer every job I took was a break even job, but it's when you don't know your numbers good enough and losing money is a surprise, is much worse.


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## JMHConstruction

And no, you'll never get used to the hours. More because they're never the same. I tend to sleep for a few hours here, an hour there. Between watching the news and radars, getting up to check the weather outside, figuring out when to call everyone, doing site checks, not to mention the actual work of cleaning the snow, it gets to be some long hours. You'll learn when you can and can't sleep.


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## Randall Ave

Know your limitations, but don't be scared to take a chance. Take care of that employee who is always ready to go no matter what time it is. And the 25 years old, to many girls and beer to think about. Of course that was 1983. O, and sleep is over rated.


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## ktfbgb

If I could give my 25 year old self advice the biggest thing is to take care of your body. I used to think I was super man and couldn't be stopped. I am still pretty young but I can already barely move a lot of the time due to several pretty horrible injuries on top of overuse injuries. I have a badly herniated disk in my back, carpal tunnel in both hands, had three separate knee surgeries, due for a knee replacement In one knee and have something called RSD in the other from a failed surgery. The list goes on. You only get one body, take care of it, hire the help you need, and do whatever it takes to keep those awesome employees that only come around once in a blue moon.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Amazing guys,

Thanks !


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Do you Gents have an idea of where I can get those snow shovels you recommended ? I believe it was you JHM,

The website said it wouldn't deliver to Canada.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Also do you guys take any vacation days in the winter?

Would you write that into your contract with your customers and give them a heads up?

I feel like vacation days would best be suited on charging customers per push vs a monthly or seasonal rate if you are planning on taking a few vacation days.

I had my biggest year in landscaping working from April until Now non stop, my body needs a break before plow season..lol


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## FredG

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Also do you guys take any vacation days in the winter?
> 
> Would you write that into your contract with your customers and give them a heads up?
> 
> I feel like vacation days would best be suited on charging customers per push vs a monthly or seasonal rate if you are planning on taking a few vacation days.
> 
> I had my biggest year in landscaping working from April until Now non stop, my body needs a break before plow season..lol


And you will have this break, The landscaping has slowed up now plus probably 3 to 4 weeks or more before snow. You will be able to break between storms, Just don't go to far, This is your first plow season and your 25 yrs old.

Work to get it started for now. Next year or 3yrs you may have a loyal employee to watch your back. Getting up is no big thing. Your going to earn money, I can't think of any other reason better for me to be up all hrs of the night. Just like Sno said it's a lifestyle. I'm usually pumped and ready to go.

I'm better than twice your age. You have to be up to monitor to,


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## SnoFarmer

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Also do you guys take any vacation days in the winter?
> 
> Would you write that into your contract with your customers and give them a heads up?
> 
> I feel like vacation days would best be suited on charging customers per push vs a monthly or seasonal rate if you are planning on taking a few vacation days.
> 
> I had my biggest year in landscaping working from April until Now non stop, my body needs a break before plow season..lol


sorry, it snowed 6" I was on vacation.
(you better be careful you could get sued for not doing your job.)

call steve wonder he'll plow it.....

and who is going do plow while you are away?
billybob ans Stevie?

the short answer , NO. unless you have hired a sub.
then next year why don't they just hire your sub as he always shows up.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

In terms of residential homes, asphalt driveways, will you guys typically only spread salt down if the forecast calls for freezing rain, or will you always salt / sand walkways just in-case ?


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## Philbilly2

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Also do you guys take any vacation days in the winter?
> 
> Would you write that into your contract with your customers and give them a heads up?
> 
> I feel like vacation days would best be suited on charging customers per push vs a monthly or seasonal rate if you are planning on taking a few vacation days.
> 
> I had my biggest year in landscaping working from April until Now non stop, my body needs a break before plow season..lol


Welcome to snow and ice industry...

Do not plan vacations during the winter... mother nature is a crude b*tch and she will come down hard on you if you let her. Old mother nature drops a quick pop up shower dumping 2" when the 5 days is clear... it will happen to you...

It is about as close of an industry to being a dairy farmer where you cannot every get to far away from home as the girls need you two times a day.


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## SnoFarmer

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> In terms of residential homes, asphalt driveways, will you guys typically only spread salt down if the forecast calls for freezing rain, or will you always salt / sand walkways just in-case ?


tip,
Remove the shoes/skid-feet , so the plow removes as much as possible.

we don't apply before as the rain can wash most of the salt away.
we will only salt after a freezing rain event and or after we have plowed.

but.. we dont spread salt every time we plow.

Q for the OP.

Its snowing and its Christmas, do you plow your route or wait?


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## FredG

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> In terms of residential homes, asphalt driveways, will you guys typically only spread salt down if the forecast calls for freezing rain, or will you always salt / sand walkways just in-case ?


You salt when needed, You can't go 100% by the forecast typically there not spot on. This is why you monitor. You should learn about ground temps. Trigger levels and no tolerance play a big part in salting. Are you going to guarantee blacktop showing.


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## ktfbgb

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Also do you guys take any vacation days in the winter?
> 
> Would you write that into your contract with your customers and give them a heads up?
> 
> I feel like vacation days would best be suited on charging customers per push vs a monthly or seasonal rate if you are planning on taking a few vacation days.
> 
> I had my biggest year in landscaping working from April until Now non stop, my body needs a break before plow season..lol


There. I deleted my comment as not to skew his answer on the Christmas Q.


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## Philbilly2

SnoFarmer said:


> Q for the OP.
> 
> Its snowing and its Christmas, do you plow your route or wait?


I too am curious on the OP response. There is a correct answer.


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## JMHConstruction

You will learn when to take vacations, and winter is not that time. IF I can take one, I usually go around this time. Usually between Oct 15th and Nov 15th. My business has slowed down and it's before it starts snowing here. I watch temps like crazy though. I will also throw out, I usually only take 3-4 day vacations that are driving distances away (few hours). I couldn't imagine trying to catch a flight and weather causing delays when I need to get back.

As far as your shovels check out:
http://www.jmenterprises.com/


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

I can't seem to get them to deliver to my home,

Not sure what I can do.

Do any retailers carry these shovels ?


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## JMHConstruction

Not familiar with your area. No one around here sells them, but up there they might. My old bagged salt supplier had the Snowcasters brand, maybe you could ask some plow dealers.


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## JMHConstruction

http://www.krilleum.com

Give them a shot


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Nice one!


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## FredG

SnoFarmer said:


> tip,
> Remove the shoes/skid-feet , so the plow removes as much as possible.
> 
> we don't apply before as the rain can wash most of the salt away.
> we will only salt after a freezing rain event and or after we have plowed.
> 
> but.. we dont spread salt every time we plow.
> 
> Q for the OP.
> 
> Its snowing and its Christmas, do you plow your route or wait?


I been waiting for the OP to answer your ?, I don't think he knows the correct answer. It's a simple ?


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## Philbilly2

SnoFarmer said:


> Q for the OP.
> 
> Its snowing and its Christmas, do you plow your route or wait?


Sno...

I keep checking back to see the responce... can we just give him the one and only correct answer or do we still have to wait?


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## JMHConstruction

Philbilly2 said:


> Sno...
> 
> I keep checking back to see the responce... can we just give him the one and only correct answer or do we still have to wait?


Surely he's figured this one out and just hasn't responded?


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## ktfbgb

JMHConstruction said:


> Surely he's figured this one out and just hasn't responded?


Maybe not? He was asking about going on vacation during snow season so I kinda guess he may not have thought about a holiday.


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## Philbilly2

JMHConstruction said:


> Surely he's figured this one out and just hasn't responded?


I mean don't get me wrong here, his answer could be yes, could be no...

Just trying to help a beginner out as we have all been there.


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## Randall Ave

Whats a holiday?


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Boys boys,

Been a busy week for me,

Like for example,

My girlfriend's parents have a place in Costa Rica, she goes every January.

I want to go!

I don't have big crews like you boys, just me, a blower, and a whole lot of coffee.

I know what the right answer is, was just curious about your thought process on the subject.

Thanks for the input as always !


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## FredG

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Boys boys,
> 
> Been a busy week for me,
> 
> Like for example,
> 
> My girlfriend's parents have a place in Costa Rica, she goes every January.
> 
> I want to go!
> 
> I don't have big crews like you boys, just me, a blower, and a whole lot of coffee.
> 
> I know what the right answer is, was just curious about your thought process on the subject.
> 
> Thanks for the input as always !


I can appreciate you wanting to go to Costa Rica, You need to find a reputable contractor to handle your route. Hopefully the Contractor won't get the work from your clients. If I was hiring a contractor to move my snow would make me a little nervous to know he was vacationing in January. JMO


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## Randall Ave

Then you have to decide what you want to do. Snow ain't like the grass growing. You have to keep an eye on the weather. The dipstick weather man called for snow. Your up looking out the window every hour, no snow comes. But your honey is sending you texts from Costa Rica about how nice it is. You get my drift. Find a friend, dependable, that you can backup each other.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Lol honeyyyy!

Yeah great point, and nice dog Randall !


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Question:

I plan on doing my blowing with a single stage contractor grade Toro, should I get two off the bat? ( their 100$ off)

Or get one first and see how the works.

I mean, I know they can bog down with wet stuff, and I like a backup.

But then again, I don't have many driveways to start.

Going single stage so I can lift out of my truck on my own, have heard great things. Currently 779$ at my dealer.


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## Philbilly2

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Boys boys,
> 
> I know what the right answer is, was just curious about your thought process on the subject.


You tell us first, then you will get everyone's opinion. Thumbs Up

Just need to see what you have learned so far from good ol plowsite...


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## JMHConstruction

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Question:
> 
> I plan on doing my blowing with a single stage contractor grade Toro, should I get two off the bat? ( their 100$ off)
> 
> Or get one first and see how the works.
> 
> I mean, I know they can bog down with wet stuff, and I like a backup.
> 
> But then again, I don't have many driveways to start.
> 
> Going single stage so I can lift out of my truck on my own, have heard great things. Currently 779$ at my dealer.


Normally I'd say get both. It's great to have a back up, or even just an extra when the big ones come through. However, you may hate doing snow, so keep that in mind also.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

If my clients decide to invest in me for the snow season it would be unwise to take off on vacation and potentially leave them high and dry without a contractor to service them accordingly.

If I were to go on vacation it would be suitable to find a reliable worker who I trust to service my driveways for the time I am away.

Seeing how it would be my first season, its best to lay off the vacation until I get a feel for the business.

How's that PhillBilly !


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

JMH, sometimes I hate landscaping as well,

But I love money and watching my company grow.

I'd figure I'll give it my all this season and see where it gets me.

Lived in Toronto my whole life can't say I'm not used to it.

But godamn I don't like missing my sleep, ahh lol.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

I guess starting with one can't really hurt.

I can always buy another one later If I truly need it.


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## Philbilly2

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> If my clients decide to invest in me for the snow season it would be unwise to take off on vacation and potentially leave them high and dry without a contractor to service them accordingly.
> 
> If I were to go on vacation it would be suitable to find a reliable worker who I trust to service my driveways for the time I am away.
> 
> Seeing how it would be my first season, its best to lay off the vacation until I get a feel for the business.
> 
> How's that PhillBilly !


Well, the original question was; "it snows on Christmas... do you plow or not?"

That is the only thing I am refereeing to:

So, the correct answer is: 
What your customer agreed to when they signed your service contract.

Some customers will not want you there on Christmas morning blowing their drive, some have family to get to and will need it cleaned. You will have to consider this.

In 2011, plowing box stores. Checked in with area manager to see if I could partake in the family tradition of getting s**t faced on Christmas Eve... He says, "be with your families, we are not going to do anything on Christmas Eve night... we will just hit it hard with salt and worry about it later"... 11:00pm just crawled into bed... phone rings... he lied... rally the troops, we have to push this... worst part was... same thing happened Christmas morning a 12:30am the next day... I slept at the supper table that night... just saying... mother nature is a mean b*tch sometimes...


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## rick W

Suggestions..
1. Buy good machines. (toro snowblower c221 or whatever are great little machines and disposable in 2-3 years) Buying cheaper ones will bite you badly trying to save a buck. Dont get the electric start and bells and whistles, just simple and solid. 
2. Do your billing 
3. Do your collecting and stay on top of that.
4. Fire pita clients. Its a tough job working in the slop..if they dont appreciate and pay...move on. Only thing worse than not having clients is having clients (doing the work) and not getting paid.
5. Go slow. Good clients will be with you for decades...take good care of them. Even stop by the week before Christmas with a $10 bottle of wine and a card saying "thanks, we appreciate your business" Goes a long long way.
6. NO vacation in winter...every time you plan anything great...weather wrecks it....always. Dont put the stress on yourself or the worry...and dont let your clients down. 
7. Dont take on more than you can deliver. A good job and keeping it under control is better than more clients, out of control and you so tired, beat up and delirious, you back into a vehicle, or damage something. 
Have fun.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Thanks Rick, great advice !

So I've landed my first 3 clients for the season.

I wanted to ask you guys about residential clients.

Say its snowing all night and you start your run at 3 am and there are cars in the driveway - do you simply shovel / blow around them ?

Do you find this is a common occurrence or do people tend to keep their cars in the garage / street when they pay for snow removal?

Also, 
If I do a home at 3 am, and a plow comes by at 5 am and snow's in their driveway at the bottom, what happens in those scenario's, am I held responsible?

Thanks guys!


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## areoseek

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Thanks Rick, great advice !
> 
> So I've landed my first 3 clients for the season.
> 
> I wanted to ask you guys about residential clients.
> 
> Say its snowing all night and you start your run at 3 am and there are cars in the driveway - do you simply shovel / blow around them ?
> 
> Do you find this is a common occurrence or do people tend to keep their cars in the garage / street when they pay for snow removal?
> 
> Also,
> If I do a home at 3 am, and a plow comes by at 5 am and snow's in their driveway at the bottom, what happens in those scenario's, am I held responsible?
> 
> Thanks guys!


Plow around them. be careful not to hit them or throw rocks with the blower. This is uncommon in my area. usually if they're paying, they'll make sure I have access. Sometimes, Christmas and thanksgiving, the driveway will be full. Then i'll just hit the apron and call it good.

Ahh, snow on the apron. That's the age old struggle. Set up your route so you try to time it with the city. main road houses first, then condos ect last. Unless you write it into your contract (which you should), you need to keep access clear. I tell mine that i'll do my best to time it, but return calls by the homeowner for the apron is extra $$ because it's out of my control.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Hey guys,

I have a question.

When you de-ice / salt a driveway and steps for example, is it okay to leave that salt on there until your return for your next service?

Or should it be cleaned up right away ?


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## JMHConstruction

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have a question.
> 
> When you de-ice / salt a driveway and steps for example, is it okay to leave that salt on there until your return for your next service?
> 
> Or should it be cleaned up right away ?


Don't over do it and it should be melted away.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Thanks JHM, 

Would the determining factor for applying salt be during a freezing rain storm, ice storm, do you typically go by the forecast when they call for ice?

Or is it simply better to pay attention to the driveway as you do it and hit any icey spots with salt,

I'm assuming column a and column b.

Black ice would be the trickiest I'm guessing.

How often would apply salt for a residential home in a season, out of let's say 10 passes or so? ( 10 storms)

Thanks man.


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## JMHConstruction

Salt or whatever you use dissolves into the ice giving it a lower freezing temperature. Basically if you have left over you've used too much.


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## JMHConstruction

Salting is something you just have to keep an eye on. For residential I would just do it when you think it needs it. With my commercial walks I spread ice melt probably 50% more than I shovel, but residential is different. I had ice melt built into the price and put it down every time I was there for the driveway. If it was an ice storm I'd apply accordingly.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

I see,

Thanks JHM,

I have mine built into the monthly price as well, so perhaps I'll do what you do and spread a little bit each time.

I'll use spreader for that. 

Thanks !


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## JMHConstruction

When I did residential I was pretty clueless. I'm sure someone who does more of them will have suggestions also.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Hey gents,

I am still having a tough time with planning my routes according to timing.

For residential homes, when a large snowfall does occur do you guys generally have a set schedule, i.e 12 am - 7 am, for instance, or do you try and wait for the snowfall to stop and then head to your clients home?

I know that for residential homes essentially most people want their driveway shoveled before work if a storm is bad and after work before they come home.

Some of my clients are retired and don't have a set time, while others want it done before 8 am, while others have 3 cars in their driveway and suggested waiting until the cars leave for work so I can do the whole driveway unhindered.

I'm sure timing dependent on when the snow storm starts and stops,

I'm just curious as to making my route as efficient as possible. 

Luckily all my clients thus far are within 15 km of where I live !


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## SnoFarmer

no.


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## ktfbgb

Well it depends on what you promised the customer in the contract. My Residential's are all done when the storm is over. We do the commercial with the storm and then when it's all done we hit the Residential's unless it's one of our 30" storms. Then we try to hit them in between the commercials once or twice. I would think that if you have a trigger in your contract then you need to do it like we do the commercial. You have to monitor over night. Once it hits the trigger you start the route. You can't really set a time to start but you can have a plan. So I know my commercial route takes 5 hours. So if it's snowing over night I know I can wait to start the route until 3 am. My HOA roads need to have been hit by 7:30 to allow for school busses. My schools need to be done by 8:15. That's in a perfect world though. It depends on how hard it snows during the night, when it started etc. usually the shovel and blower guys on my crew know that they need to be starting the route at 3 unless I call earlier. Me however I have to wake up every hour to monitor the conditions. I live on the opposite side of town from my dad so I have a wifi camera at his house I can check from my iPad. So I get up look out the window and check the camera. Once it looks close I head out and start monitoring the sites. Hope that makes sense I think I was all over the place with this one.


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## SnoFarmer

^ wow. he just asked one simple question.

"For residential homes, when a large snowfall does occur do you guys generally have a set schedule, i.e 12 am - 7 am, for instance, or do you try and wait for the snowfall to stop and then head to your clients home ?"


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Thanks Ktfbgb,

Makes sense to me.

I have a 5 cm trigger, so for me I think I will follow up with the customer when the storm is starting and ask them what time would they would prefer to get a better idea of how to plan my route.

As a single man operation, what would be a good starting goal, 8 - 10 driveways ?


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## ktfbgb

SnoFarmer said:


> ^ wow. he just asked one simple question.
> 
> "For residential homes, when a large snowfall does occur do you guys generally have a set schedule, i.e 12 am - 7 am, for instance, or do you try and wait for the snowfall to stop and then head to your clients home ?"


lol I know. Like I said I rambled on that one and not very coherently. I was just trying to help out. He's pretty persistent and wants to learn as much as possible which is kind of nice. oh well he can take it for what it's worth which may be nothing at all.


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## ktfbgb

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Thanks Ktfbgb,
> 
> Makes sense to me.
> 
> I have a 5 cm trigger, so for me I think I will follow up with the customer when the storm is starting and ask them what time would they would prefer to get a better idea of how to plan my route.
> 
> As a single man operation, what would be a good starting goal, 8 - 10 driveways ?


I can't really tell you that. I think that is a little low but I understand that you are using a blower and not a plow. It depends on how close they are how big they are etc. It's all about how long it will typically take you. For me I try to keep a 5-6 hour route but that's because we get a lot of snow. At that mark it allows me to go through the route once and by the time I'm done there is enough snow accumulation to start over again at the beginning without it getting out of control.


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## SnoFarmer

i know, 
advice,
The customer may not know best.

per push costumers, ya want to push it as often as ya can.

plow with the storm, do clean ups latter.

you will never make everyone happy.

driving around your route over and over just because you plow one drive now and the one next to it 4hrs latter doesn't make sense.

why have a tight route?

set a trigger depth and go.

if there is a lot of snow,
start early, have a storm clause.

yadda yadda yadda


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

So essentially once I see 5 cm have fallen on my driveway its time to saddle up ?

Makes things a bit easier.


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## ktfbgb

Typically yes but it depends on how you set up the contracts. You will make more money doing it less times because if I remember right you are just doing seasonal correct? If so as long as the driveways will be clear by the time you specify in the contract you could wait till later to start as long as you can get to the last customer and have them done by the time you say it will in the contract. This will depend of course how much snow is on the ground. If you already have 4" on the ground and you are supposed to get 6 more before say 7am you may have to start earlier because more snow equals more time to clear.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Correct, yeah I am doing all seasonal, either paid up front or monthly.

Most of my clients haven't been picky with the time, they are more in the " as long as you show up and get it done " group.

I always ask when they leave for work and 90% of them have said 8:30 am or 9 am.

So I'm thinking for instance, If I have 9 driveways to clear on a 20 -30 CM dump, I would begin around 12 am, and go through until I am done. Take a look at the first driveway I've cleared and see if it needs another round.

Thanks ktfbgb


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## ktfbgb

Thumbs Up


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Hey guys !

I am growing at a solid rate, I am forecasting ( pun intended ) I will be at around 12 driveway's by the end of this week. Currently at 7. 

Realistically speaking from your own experience,

1. How many driveway's could 2 strong young guys handle with 2 blowers and shovels in a night ? 

( I want to take on more clients but I've never done this before so I'm not sure if I should stay at 10 for example and get used to that for now )

2. Does getting clients get harder as the season goes on ?


3. Do you guys try to switch your body clocks over and sleep at a later time and wake up at later time considering snow removal is typically a night shift job ?
Right now I sleep at 11:30 pm and wake up a 7:30 am, but I feel like this will soon be my work schedule !

Thanks guys


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## JMHConstruction

1. Depending on the size of the drive, I would say you could keep everyone pretty happy with 30 drives. It also depends on how tight the route is.

2. Yes, with the exception of the people who wait until it snows to call.

3. I don't switch anything. We don't get enough snow to do that, and I stay busy enough that I need sunlight. There are times that I don't sleep for 2 days. My schedule now for the most part is in bed around 11ish and up at 4:45 (most days). I definitely sleep in a bit when I quit building, but rarely past 8. Now after a storm, and when I know I won't need to go back out I've slept 16 hrs straight, but I had also been up for 3 days and worked a total of 45 hours, not including watching weather and waiting for the final push. Most storms I try to watch the weather enough I can take naps, then check the weather again, then another nap until it's time to go out. Sleep when you can, your body will never get used to it.


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## JMHConstruction

Thought you'd like this.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Haha thanks JMH yeah bro I've seen this !

All my houses are within 15 km of each other, I am trying to keep it very close.

30 driveways, wow, Maybe I'll shoot for 15.

On a big storm, do you begin a few hours after the snow begins? 

Once your trigger is hit ?


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## ktfbgb

Don't try to switch your sleep schedule. You just sleep when you can. Your young so you can power through. When I was younger I worked night shift at the ER. 7pm to 7am. We worked the three 12's and then had 4 days off. I was just married and had a newborn so regularly only got 2-3 hours a day during the three years I worked there. But things would happen so being up 56 hours was not out of the norm. I quit there when I got hired at the Fire Department and did that for 10 years before a career ending injury. We worked a 48-96 schedule so 48 hours at the fire dept then 4 days off. AlwYs had to get up in the middle of the night for calls, and wasn't unusual to not sleep for the 48 hours due to call volume. Snow is much the same and you'll get used to it.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Okay brother, thank you


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## WestRepairs

Philbilly2 said:


> I too am curious on the OP response. There is a correct answer.


I've have been gone on Christmas morning for the past 2 years. Sucks for the kids. My hope is that they will remember dad working hard to provide. Sure it sucks but I do a couple of our local churches. They have to be cleared before each service. Keeps you on your toes. But as you will learn, one missed event can lead to more than a few lost contracts.


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## SnoFarmer

JMHConstruction said:


> Thought you'd like this.


when i clicked on the vid, the song, Ive been waiting all my life for
a moment like this..started to play in my head.

now lets add 2-3" and a 3' berm at the end of the drive from the city plow.
still, your paying 2 employees plus the appropriate insurance for a service your charging less for that a truck and plow can do in the same time.

plus, the 2 guys will get wet and tired as the day passes by.
a truck doesn't get tired.

jmo.

have fun out in the storm....


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## FredG

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Haha thanks JMH yeah bro I've seen this !
> 
> All my houses are within 15 km of each other, I am trying to keep it very close.
> 
> 30 driveways, wow, Maybe I'll shoot for 15.
> 
> On a big storm, do you begin a few hours after the snow begins?
> 
> Once your trigger is hit ?


I can appreciate going slow to start. You need more than 15 bro. If there all close by 30 would be good. You got another guy. If you think your performance is a little slow you can always find a guy with a shovel for creative payroll. When I do a drive with my truck I handle the walks myself. I like a 24'' shovel. Give it a shot who knows maybe you young bucks can do more if your a couple of animals.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Yeah man I know, just want to make sure I do a good job. Don't want to take on more then I can handle. Sitting at 9 clients before first storm has hit, that isn't too bad. Once I make my first few runs my confidence will grow and I'll know what I can take on and dish out. I've cut 7 lawns in a day on my own, so this shouldn't be too difficult. Me and my buddy are also gym freaks that do construction for a living so we should be able to smash a good amount of driveways !


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## JMHConstruction

If you can't get the work then this post is pointless, but I'll post it anyway. Assuming you're getting work comp (not starting that debate again) there is probably a minimum that your insurance is going off of even if your payroll doesn't reach it. When I first hired a guy to help me with sidewalks the minimum payroll was I think 12 or 15k, and I didn't pay that much for just snow (before I started working for myself full time). As far as insurance, I didn't have to pay any extra to hire one more person, and I was able to take more work with the extra help. Just something to think about.


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## Philbilly2

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Me and my buddy are also gym freaks that do construction for a living so we should be able to smash a good amount of driveways !


:laughing:  just remember that the gym strength is not the same as work endurance.

Been working circles around "gym freaks" for years...


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## FredG

Philbilly2 said:


> :laughing:  just remember that the gym strength is not the same as work endurance.
> 
> Been working circles around "gym freaks" for years...


Good point. LOL.


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## ktfbgb

Philbilly2 said:


> :laughing:  just remember that the gym strength is not the same as work endurance.
> 
> Been working circles around "gym freaks" for years...


Truth!


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

100 percent most gym guys are *****es and can't work at all.

I've been working physical jobs since 13, I'm 28 now. 

I've done it all, lol.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Hey bro's, quick question about GPS.

Do you guys have a recommendation for any specific GPS device, I'm using google maps on my phone but I'd like to have my route preprogrammed into a GPS device so I don't have to fumble around with my phone.

Thanks !


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## Philbilly2

If you have 7 drives to do, you should be able to get to all of them without GPS...

Maybe this is a generation thing and I just missed out on it?


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## Philbilly2

Heck, I still laugh about how awesome my 7 county map book was to find places!!! Most only had a 5 county book...


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## ktfbgb

Philbilly2 said:


> If you have 7 drives to do, you should be able to get to all of them without GPS...
> 
> Maybe this is a generation thing and I just missed out on it?


Lmao. In all seriousness though you said you were keeping the route small so I would save the money for something else. I could see having a GPS for a route guide if I was like some of these guys like Nicks snow and mow who have like 130 something drives to do with a single machine.


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## JMHConstruction

To not sound like a broken record of everyone else and say you don't need one, I'll ask why do you need one? 9,10,15 accounts (all that you did the bid for and landed the job personally) I can't see needing a GPS to find your way around, but I used to use a Garmin. You can put a route in on your computer and download it to your GPS. I never used it though for snow, but I knew my route before it snowed and didn't have the number of jobs some of these guys have.


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## SnoFarmer

Becuse in a total white out he can still do his route by looking at a screen, geeshh


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## Defcon 5

SnoFarmer said:


> Becuse in a total white out he can still do his route by looking at a screen, geeshh


Instrument Plowing....Dont you have to pass a special test to do that?...


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## jonc41

I'm from Ontario too (about an hour north of Toronto) I do rural residential driveways, and they are all pay per plow, I also still work my full time job, I do 7 fairly large driveways and start my route at 4 AM when it snows overnight, i generally finish around 7. This gives me time for getting stuck or having a small issue as i start work at 8 about 10 mins away from my last driveway. If it snows during the day I do all my driveways on the way home (this works for me because i work locally and most of my clients work in the city, so I get to their driveway and clean it out before they get home, and finish them in the morning before they go to work) i have a buddy who plows too and we have set up for him to cover for me if i have a break down or something and either i cover for him or lend him my truck or vise versa i will grab his truck and use it if needed) i also have people i can call to come get my truck during the day if I'm at work and can't leave to go plow. I also go out with 5cm, and my house is at the start of my route and dads is at the other and he is up for work at 5 am so i call him to make sure I have to go down that way (even though its only 15-20 min drive we get completely different amounts of snow) also as for the christmas question- I am going to plow my driveways so they can go see their families or their families can get into their driveways to see them. but i am usually gone before they wake up. just thought I'd give you some idea of what works for me. there has been some great input here and i have learned a lot reading this thread also. Thank you everyone!


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## ktfbgb

SnoFarmer said:


> Becuse in a total white out he can still do his route by looking at a screen, geeshh


That would be almost as fun as the blindfolded driving on talageda nights :laugh:


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Lol, nice input gents.

It is a generational thing I am terrible with directions.

Anyways, I am at 12 houses now, so I'm getting up there!

Will use google maps for now,

I've also thought of creating a flame-thrower back pack unit to melt snow off driveways, something small enough to not damage anything. 


Lol, way of the futureeeee,

Enjoy your night lads


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Hey guys !

Do you think its better if I do my 11 resi' driveways starting at 4:30 am versus going out at midnight?

We have about 10 cm now, and it's supposed to snow overnight until morning hours. 
My clients all have 8 am deadlines for drive-ways to be clear.

Also thinking it's better to run blowers at 5 am versus midnight ?

Also roads would be plowed as well so I could tackle the apron on the driveways as well.

Any thoughts ?


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## Philbilly2

Yes


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## ktfbgb

Philbilly2 said:


> Yes


Lol

Hey OP only you can make that decision. Your the boss. Too many factors to consider for us to help you make a decision about timing your route. Not being a jerk just not really possible


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

That's on an honest answer,

Thanks bro


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## WarriorLandscapingCan

Had my first ever run the other night and I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has been helping me - I survived !

We got about 7 1/2 inches of wet snow here, I went out at 4:30 am with me and a buddy, it took us 7 hours to do 11 houses with shovels and 1 blower.

I landed 4 more estimates that day so I will buy my 2nd blower if I land more clients.

The toro 721 was a beast, took care of everything aside from 18 " aprons at the bottom of the driveway.

I'm aiming to shave my route down to about 5 hours for 15 houses with 2 blowers !

The snowplow shovels are awesome as well, big difference maker !


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## JMHConstruction

If you are letting your places get the whole storm before getting there you may want to look at a 2 stage blower. It will also work it's way through the crap from the plows.

That wet snow is tough, way to stick with it. You will learn what is faster and more efficient the more you get out.


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