# Cat SS questions.



## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

I'm in the market for a skid steer and I've found a few cat's that I like. I've never ran a cat and would try a couple out before spending money, but what I'm curious about is if parts from Cat are more costly then parts from other brands? Basically are you paying for the Cat name on everything? Say a part from Bobcat, Gehl, NH, Case etc is $50 but the same part from Cat it's $70 or not really?

Also for those who have ran Cat along side a comparable model from another brand, how is fuel consumption compare? The farm I work at has a Cat tractor and a couple semi's powered by Cats and their noticeably more thirsty then the other stuff. And it's not because of them having more power. The tractor burns 26 gal/hr while on the chisel and another tractor (NH) burns 22 gal/hr while pulling the same chisel in the same ground and it has 80hp more then the Cat.

Thanks, Mark.


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## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

I'll PM you Mark.


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## NicholasMWhite (Oct 5, 2008)

Whenever I am contemplating a purchase of a piece of equipment I go to the parts counter and get price's and availability of various parts.

This gives me an idea of how well stocked the dealer is and the cost of their parts.


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## PlatinumService (Jan 28, 2010)

not sure on the parts question. but i found that they use less fuel because of the foot pedal. when you use the hand throttle its on full all the time, when you use the foot pedal the throttle varies so much i found on a job site you use about half. but if you are a full bore the whole time its comparable to other skids.


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

PlatinumService;1245540 said:


> but i found that they use less fuel because of the foot pedal. w.


When going to Bobcat SJC controls, I noticed this when comparing the same model without.

Mark, just a suggestion....but go to some of your local dealers(whatever brand they may be), and inquire about used machines. You could get some demo time in each and get a feel of how the dealers operate & treat you. Service is a big deal imo.


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## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

Mark13;1245295 said:


> I'm in the market for a skid steer and I've found a few cat's that I like. I've never ran a cat and would try a couple out before spending money, but what I'm curious about is if parts from Cat are more costly then parts from other brands? Basically are you paying for the Cat name on everything? Say a part from Bobcat, Gehl, NH, Case etc is $50 but the same part from Cat it's $70 or not really?
> 
> Also for those who have ran Cat along side a comparable model from another brand, how is fuel consumption compare? The farm I work at has a Cat tractor and a couple semi's powered by Cats and their noticeably more thirsty then the other stuff. And it's not because of them having more power. The tractor burns 26 gal/hr while on the chisel and another tractor (NH) burns 22 gal/hr while pulling the same chisel in the same ground and it has 80hp more then the Cat.
> 
> Thanks, Mark.


I own several brands of equipment. In my experience the Cat parts prices are in line, and in many cases are unexpectedly inexpensive. I think that Wacker prices are out of line. I know you are not considering a Wacker or Wacker/Nueson skid steer (if they even make them) but I mention it to make a point. I have been doing some work on my RT 820 compactor recently. A 12" long x 1/4" fuel line retails for $83.00! No I didn't by it. 1-1/4" dia. x 1/4" thick hardened washer, with a 3/4" hole in it, cost $25 each. There may be some who think they are getting hosed when buying Cat parts. I have experience with two different Cat franchises and that's not my experience.
I currently own (2) Cat machines and I don't think that they consume excessive amounts of fuel. For your reference my Bobcat A300 (8,000#, 80HP) consumes about 1.5 gallons of diesel per hour. 



JohnnyU;1245344 said:


> I'll PM you Mark.


While I can only assume why you chose to keep your comments confidential (maybe trying to stay on the high road?) I would prefer it if you would share your experiences here for all to see. Isn't that why we read these posts...to gain from the experiences of others? You may have something good to contribute and the rest of us don't even get the chance to decide for ourselves.



NicholasMWhite;1245439 said:


> Whenever I am contemplating a purchase of a piece of equipment I go to the parts counter and get price's and availability of various parts.
> 
> This gives me an idea of how well stocked the dealer is and the cost of their parts.


IMO this is great advice. This would allow you to see first hand rather than rely on the advice of strangers. Get a quote for the typical maintenance items. Oil, fuel, hydraulic, and air filters. These are items that you will always need, if you are using the machine anyway, so these are true costs of ownership and will help you gain an accurate picture of the cost of the parts that you_ will _buy instead of what you _might_ buy. These are also items that the dealer should always have on hand (high turnover items). If they don't then it may indicate that the dealer does not support their product well or that there may be difficulty in obtaining these items from the MFR. Either scenario does not bode well for those who need the parts (the end user-YOU). Be sure to check the other brands to make a good comparison. I also recommend that you check the recommended intervals for these parts. Some may have a longer service life than the others. This is not the case on the machines I own. They all have about the same service intervals.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Mark, 

The Cat skid steers do not all have Cat Engines. My 2010 262c has a Mitsubishi engine the 246B might have been the same not sure. Like John Deere has or Had Kubota engines or maybe thats Bobcat. 

My Cat working all day full throttle 8 hours will burn a full tank of fuel and its 26gal tank. I used it a few times for pushing snow with a snow bucket and or relocating snow same thing full throttle used about 5gallons at 3-4hours. Machine only has 160hrs on it and it seams like it does better on fuel in winter. Maybe its the power service I add to the fuel to prevent gelling.


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## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

DGODGR;1245897 said:


> While I can only assume why you chose to keep your comments confidential (maybe trying to stay on the high road?) I would prefer it if you would share your experiences here for all to see. Isn't that why we read these posts...to gain from the experiences of others? You may have something good to contribute and the rest of us don't even get the chance to decide for ourselves.


I assure you, it was nothing of pertinent value to this discussion. At least not directly. I chose to PM him both for ethical reasons (due to my current employment), and to keep from cluttering his thread.


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## dieseld (Dec 30, 2005)

Keep in mind service in our area. Deere is damn near every town. I had to pack a lunch to get replacement /extra keys during a recent trip to the closet Cat dealer.


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## pieperlc (Jan 4, 2005)

Patten's service is pretty good, I've never had a problem. Nothing's ever broke down to were I needed a part to get/keep the machine running either though. Grassman is right on with fuel usage. 8 hours running a harley rake will eat a full tank. Plowing snow wide open will not use as much fuel, but not sure how many gal/hr either exactly. I base my snow operational costs off of 20 gal/8hr. and that covers us. I buy my filters through a local shop and they are baldwin. I can't say cat was overpriced, but the local guy is more convenient. Cat's are a dream to operate with the pilots. I'm sure any machines pilots are the same, but I can't imagine spending 4-6 hours in an old cable style machine anymore. We're running a 252B. I think the motor is a mitsuibishi (sp?). Cat owns part of mitsuibishi's diesels I think.

On edit: John Deere's green (or yellow for a ss) paint adds to the price as well last I recall.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

DGODGR;1245897 said:


> While I can only assume why you chose to keep your comments confidential (maybe trying to stay on the high road?) I would prefer it if you would share your experiences here for all to see. Isn't that why we read these posts...to gain from the experiences of others? You may have something good to contribute and the rest of us don't even get the chance to decide for ourselves.
> 
> IMO this is great advice. This would allow you to see first hand rather than rely on the advice of strangers. Get a quote for the typical maintenance items. Oil, fuel, hydraulic, and air filters. These are items that you will always need, if you are using the machine anyway, so these are true costs of ownership and will help you gain an accurate picture of the cost of the parts that you_ will _buy instead of what you _might_ buy. These are also items that the dealer should always have on hand (high turnover items). If they don't then it may indicate that the dealer does not support their product well or that there may be difficulty in obtaining these items from the MFR. Either scenario does not bode well for those who need the parts (the end user-YOU). Be sure to check the other brands to make a good comparison. I also recommend that you check the recommended intervals for these parts. Some may have a longer service life than the others. This is not the case on the machines I own. They all have about the same service intervals.


Johnny's pm to me was nothing that couldn't have been posted here. It was just for privacy reasons.

Thanks for the tips about costs and intervals of filters and other high priority items. It's something I would have thought of but hadn't done so yet.



dieseld;1246188 said:


> Keep in mind service in our area. Deere is damn near every town. I had to pack a lunch to get replacement /extra keys during a recent trip to the closet Cat dealer.


I'm looking into dealers yet. I'm just keeping my options open in case a machine comes along I know what I could be getting into. Deere is everywhere and I've had good dealings with Bucks, I'm not a huge fan of the Deere Skids though. Their not a bad skid at all, I just feel that there is better options depending on each person's opinion.



pieperlc;1246251 said:


> Patten's service is pretty good, I've never had a problem. Nothing's ever broke down to were I needed a part to get/keep the machine running either though. Grassman is right on with fuel usage. 8 hours running a harley rake will eat a full tank. Plowing snow wide open will not use as much fuel, but not sure how many gal/hr either exactly. I base my snow operational costs off of 20 gal/8hr. and that covers us. I buy my filters through a local shop and they are baldwin. I can't say cat was overpriced, but the local guy is more convenient. Cat's are a dream to operate with the pilots. I'm sure any machines pilots are the same, but I can't imagine spending 4-6 hours in an old cable style machine anymore. We're running a 252B. I think the motor is a mitsuibishi (sp?). Cat owns part of mitsuibishi's diesels I think.
> 
> On edit: John Deere's green (or yellow for a ss) paint adds to the price as well last I recall.


Thanks for the tips. It would live it's life under my ownership pushing snow, light dirt work, moving palletized items or other stuff around, and loading/unloading hay. So not a terrible life compared to what some machines are used for.

I never gave it a thought that Cat would put anything but a Cat motor in their equipment but I guess it could make sense for cost. I'm not overly worried about a Mitsubishi motor, they seem to make a fine product and I don't think Cat would choose to run their power plant if they had a poor track record.


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## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

Cat has been using different supplier for engines for a long time. My '97 416C backhoe has a rebadged Perkins. This is OK with me as it only burns 12 gallons in an eight hour shift, and has been trouble free for 12,000 hours. The water pump and fuel pump are the only things I have replaced so far. I'm 99% sure that they have been using that engine since they started making backhoes back in the eighties. My '03 315CL hydraulic excavator has a Mitsubishi engine in it. I'm not so happy with it though. It runs fine and has been reliable. The thing that bothers me is that I can smell it burning oil from time to time. It uses about 40 gallons in eight hours. That is for a 110 HP, six cylinder engine that's mounted on a 40,000# machine. Not a very good comparison to a skid steer but I think it illustrates a pretty good consumtion rate for, at least, that Mitsubishi. I was not aware that Cat was using Mitsubishi engines in their skids. I thought that they were putting Perkins in those.
Bobcat puts Kubota engines in most everything these days (skids and minis). I'm pretty sure that Deere is using Deere engines. I'm not sure about this so maybe Blowerman (or somebody else who owns one) can comment.
I have run the Cat pilot controls (skid steer and excavator) and the Bobcat pilot controls (skid steer and mini excavator). IMO the Cat pilots are much better than the Bobcats. The Cats are much more precise, and easier to modulate. The controls on my A300 are better than the ones that were on my old A220. They are not as good as the ones I have used on Cat machines, and I've had to replace them (thankfully with upgraded units) as they became faulty. The ones in my mini excavator (435ZHS) are more precise than those in my skid steer. They are not quite as nice nice as the Cat units, and there is a bit of a hitch, or a jerk, when crowding out. Even if I have the lever to the stops (eliminating faulty operator input) it will jerk. I can't be sure if this is something in the hydraulics or the controls but it feels to me like it's in the controls. Comparing the Cat excavator controls to the skid controls is not quite apples to apples. The skids that use pilot controls (to my knowledge, on all of the brands that use them) are electric, or "fly by wire", over hyddraulic. The excavators (at least those that I have used) are hydraulic over hydraulic.


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## Greenmtboy (Jan 22, 2011)

DGODGR;1246419 said:


> Bobcat puts Kubota engines in most everything these days (skids and minis).


Bobcat has been sold and I think they are now running Daedong engines in there skids. I think they sold to either Doosan or Daewoo, not exactly sure thou.

After a little research, it is Doosan not Daewoo.


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## JohnnyU (Nov 21, 2002)

DGODGR;1246419 said:


> Cat has been using different supplier for engines for a long time.


Perkins is a subsidiary of Caterpillar... 
http://www.caterpillar.com/brands


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## Mdwstsnow512 (Dec 30, 2007)

Have Cats, 
i lease/rent Bobcat/Case/Cat/Deere/new hollands all in the winter - Reffering purely to skidloaders
i would buy or lease all Cats if i had the option to do so, they are quieter. way more comfortable to run. fuel consumption is no different than anything else really, parts are all about the same. Patten's service has always been second to none for me. 
an 1845C or a 236B - cost is about the same but you get alot more for your money with the Cat, IMO. 
only issue(s) we have ever had were the Gas pedal which is about 200 bucks and a couple hours - also not a deal breaker, you can still run the machine. 
second would be a thermostat. - simple fix again. 

CAT in a heartbeat.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

Thanks for all the info and experiences.

I'm leaning towards a tire machine since I don't see a need for a CTL. I've never ran a CTL so maybe I don't know what I'm missing but I don't see a need for the added maintenance and the extra amount of parts to wear out and the cost of track replacements.


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