# Tough to turn in 4x4



## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

i am new to fords and solid front axle trucks. when i lock both hubs and engage the 4x4 switch and try to do tight turns the truck almost dosent want to move. is it just the u joint or transfer case just wondering if its bad or whats up. found this out before i went to go tear up a field at my buddy's house


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Its you. Don't try turning tight on a dry pavement or you'll blow something out .Start learning how to do 3 pt turns when in 4x4.


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

Yup. Like Grandview said. Keep that up on dry ground and you'll see what the inside of your axles look like in a hurry.


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

should i lock my hubs manually also before plowing? because i know they are automatic vacuum hubs


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

No need if you have the shift on the fly. I have never locked mine manually. There might be situations, deep mud maybe where it's prudent, but I've never needed to.


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

i heard to keep them clean and greased up and use them a few times so they aren't seized when you need them


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

I throw mine into 4high about once every 3-4 months. That's all. But in reality, if the wheel is moving, it's being lubricated. The engagement doesn't change how the grease in the hub works.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Your truck must have posi trac in the rear if it was limited slip it will turn tight in 4x4


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

Not with the hubs locked. My truck is 4.30 posi rear. What the OP is describing is front wheel "hop" caused by the ujoints not being able to fully rotate and the issue being exacerbated by use on dry ground. Has nothing to do with the read end in his case.


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## South Seneca (Oct 22, 2010)

That's why a lot of us plow in 2 wheel drive whenever possible. It's pretty easy to break something when turning sharp on bare pavement.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

Sawboy;1522517 said:


> Not with the hubs locked. My truck is 4.30 posi rear. What the OP is describing is front wheel "hop" caused by the ujoints not being able to fully rotate and the issue being exacerbated by use on dry ground. Has nothing to do with the read end in his case.


If you hubs are lock in and you have a posi trac rear end it will hop realy bad with hubs lock in 
If you have limited slip rear end you will have very little hop in front end
I have 2 trucks with posi trac and I have 2 trucks with limited slip rear end
The truck with limited slip will turn easyer on dry ground vs the truck with posi trac with hubs lock in
What year is your truck has 4.30 rear end


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

For fu-ks sake.....


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## OC&D (Dec 2, 2009)

Any truck will act differently in 4wd on dry pavement, but particularly one with a solid front axle with u-joints. My brand new Ford will buck like a stuck mule on dry pavement if I lock it in, which I wouldn't, since I'm only asking for problems.


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

Most of them do. In fact I've never drove one that doesn't.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Antlerart06;1522538 said:


> I have 2 trucks with posi trac and I have 2 trucks with limited slip rear


 That's like saying you have Band-aids, and adhesive bandages. Or Kleenex's, and tissues. Or Coke, and soda. Or Tidy Cat, and cat litter....

We may need to educate you on the correct category's of differentials and their differences.


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

2007 F350 with Towboss package from factory. 4.30 rear from factory. What difference does it make? I'm still right.


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

Uh,

There's a thing in the glove box called an owners manual that tells you not to run your 4x4 on dry pavement due to driveline bind.... Both of my trucks have a warning label on the drivers side sun visor that explains the same thing.


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## jmac5058 (Sep 28, 2009)

B&B;1522611 said:


> That's like saying you have Band-aids, and adhesive bandages. Or Kleenex's, and tissues. Or Coke, and soda. Or Tidy Cat, and cat litter....
> 
> We may need to educate you on the correct category's of differentials and their differences.


You need some schooling , a posi is NOT a limited slip and a limited slip is not a locker. Posi is the older way of getting both tires traction then they went to limited slip and now most use lockers. GM first with G-80 locker that engauges automaticly after one tire slips a bit , Ford now has a switch in the cab that you can turn on the locking rear end when in 4x4 . Dodge still has limited slip , so does Toyota but I dont like including them in talk about trucks.


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

ducaticorse;1522542 said:


> For fu-ks sake.....


THANK YOU!



Dogplow Dodge;1522620 said:


> Uh,
> 
> There's a thing in the glove box called an owners manual that tells you not to run your 4x4 on dry pavement due to driveline bind.... Both of my trucks have a warning label on the drivers side sun visor that explains the same thing.


AND THANK YOU lol


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

jmac5058;1522633 said:


> You need some schooling , a posi is NOT a limited slip and a limited slip is not a locker. Posi is the older way of getting both tires traction then they went to limited slip and now most use lockers. GM first with G-80 locker that engauges automaticly after one tire slips a bit , Ford now has a switch in the cab that you can turn on the locking rear end when in 4x4 . Dodge still has limited slip , so does Toyota but I dont like including them in talk about trucks.


Technically, positraction IS limited slip, just the GM name for it. There are several different types of limited slip differential, so although the GM positraction may not be the same type of limited slip as the specific type in your mind, it is still a limited slip differential.

Toyota currently uses two types of differentials in the rear of their trucks; fully open and pushbutton locker (TRD OFFROAD). All limited slip functionality is exclusively via braking. I.e., squeeze the brake on the wheel that is spinning faster. The major advantage to this type of limited slip is that it also applies to the FRONT axle, and can account for steering angle. Effectively, Toyota (and certainly other manufacturers that I'm not as familiar with) have 4-wheel limited slip.

I'm not sure how this system will react to plowing though. If its cranking the brakes too much, that can't be a good thing.

Major advantage to electronic limited slip (brakes) is that it can be disabled with the push of a button. Mechanical LSD's cannot be disabled, so if they're continually operating, they'll quickly wear out.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

ScubaSteve728;1522440 said:


> i am new to fords and solid front axle trucks. when i lock both hubs and engage the 4x4 switch and try to do tight turns the truck almost dosent want to move. is it just the u joint or transfer case just wondering if its bad or whats up. found this out before i went to go tear up a field at my buddy's house


You've obviously never driven a 4x4 before.
PLEASE PLEASE trade in your pickup for a Subaru. It will suit you much better.

And don't go tearing up fields, that's idiotic.


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## jmac5058 (Sep 28, 2009)

jasonv;1522684 said:


> Technically, positraction IS limited slip, just the GM name for it. There are several different types of limited slip differential, so although the GM positraction may not be the same type of limited slip as the specific type in your mind, it is still a limited slip differential.
> 
> Toyota currently uses two types of differentials in the rear of their trucks; fully open and pushbutton locker (TRD OFFROAD). All limited slip functionality is exclusively via braking. I.e., squeeze the brake on the wheel that is spinning faster. The major advantage to this type of limited slip is that it also applies to the FRONT axle, and can account for steering angle. Effectively, Toyota (and certainly other manufacturers that I'm not as familiar with) have 4-wheel limited slip.
> 
> ...


Totaly wrong , posi or limited slip have nothing to do with brakes. Your talking traction controll that has come about since anti lock brakes. Posi and limited slip were around long before there were computeres in trucks you have no idea what your talking about.


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

This thread makes me want to smash my face off of a red hot grill, then slam my dik in a door.


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

I wish the first responder would have told him it was all normal and to keep running in 4wd and everyone get on board...then watch him create a new thread about how he wrecked his front Diff.


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## ducaticorse (Oct 16, 2012)

Triton2286;1522698 said:


> I wish the first responder would have told him it was all normal and to keep running in 4wd and everyone get on board...then watch him create a new thread about how he wrecked his front Diff.


Yessssssssssssssss


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## RJ lindblom (Sep 21, 2006)

Triton2286;1522698 said:


> I wish the first responder would have told him it was all normal and to keep running in 4wd and everyone get on board...then watch him create a new thread about how he wrecked his front Diff.


Then he start bashing Fords, because he can't properly operate a 4 wheel drive vehicle.

So wonder who owns the field behind his buddy's house? Go tear that field up and piss off the landowner. That is good thinking there. Good grief.


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

Why is everyone so mean on here my gosh. Triton yu are a royal turd and so are you jason all i have ever driven were a 4x4 none fords none limitee slip and none were solid fromt axles i asked a simple question and got my answer stop arguing on here jeeze


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## RJ lindblom (Sep 21, 2006)

If you've driven any 4 wheeled drive vehicle you'd know not to engage the 4 wheel drive on hard dry surfaces. It doesn't matter what brand it is. Limited slip is a moot point. There is a difference between universal joints and cv joints in the front axle. CV joins are a lot like those found in a front wheeled drive car. Universal joints, work like the drive lines, which is why you can't pull stupidity like this, there needs to be some give or the joints bind up and something will break. Abusing equipment because you can't read an owners manual is the reason we are harsh.

If you take care of your equipment it will take care of you.


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

I didnt abuse anything and i take care of my **** no harm no foul right


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

He complains in his other tread that we should lay off him because he's a kid. Well he sure proved that since apparently I'm a TURD,

Grow up. If you want us to give you more respect than maybe you should try to be the bigger man instead of giving childish responses every time.


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

How bout you dont be mean when all i did was ask a question


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

Just plain arrogance all i asked for was help and people come on here and give me crap. The whole point of this forum is to learn and get help not be rude and mean


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## RJ lindblom (Sep 21, 2006)

Man up and admit you can't or didn't read the owners manual and then quit whining because we jumped all over something like that. If I was an employee and pulled a stunt like this, I would expect to be chewed out. If an employee did this, I'd rip them apart, and they'd be on the bubble. If they did something else wrong I'd fire them.

If someone wants to learn I'll teach them. WIllful ignorance or a "no harm, no foul" attitiude is someone who I will have hard time respecting.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

jmac5058;1522691 said:


> Totaly wrong , posi or limited slip have nothing to do with brakes. Your talking traction controll that has come about since anti lock brakes.


As the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Limited slip is accomplished by doing something/anything to HOLD BACK (limit) the wheel with low traction so that torque is transferred to the wheel with HIGH traction. That can be through gears, friction plates, or the brakes themselves. There are as many different approaches to achieving LIMITED SLIP as there are names for it.

As I said before, you are thinking of some SPECIFIC IMPLEMENTATION as limited slip. In reality, what you are thinking of is just ONE OF MANY *different* implementations of limited slip. One of which DOES INDEED involve the brakes.



> Posi and limited slip were around long before there were computeres in trucks you have no idea what your talking about.


No, my friend, YOU have no idea what you're talking about. Same objective, different approach, still classified as LIMITED SLIP, because that is, in fact, what it does.


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

Its my truck i got better **** to do with my time then read the owners manual. Id be suprised if all u guys can even read


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

"Better **** to do than read the owners manual"

That's just not smart right there. Always read the owners manual. Always. With ANY purchase.


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

ScubaSteve728;1522961 said:


> Its my truck i got better **** to do with my time then read the owners manual. Id be suprised if all u guys can even read


We can't read?

This coming from the kid who has spelling and grammatical errors in almost every post.

A GRAMMATICAL ERROR is a term used in prescriptive grammar for an instance of faulty, unconventional, or controversial usage.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

ScubaSteve728;1522883 said:


> Why is everyone so mean on here my gosh. Triton yu are a royal turd and so are you jason all i have ever driven were a 4x4 none fords none limitee slip and none were solid fromt axles i asked a simple question and got my answer stop arguing on here jeeze


It makes no difference if its ford.
It makes no difference if it is limited slip.
It makes no difference if it is solid front axle.

4x4 is 4x4 is 4x4 is 4x4.

PERIOD.

Ok, maybe I can help you out here by explaining it so you understand what is happening when you turn.

When you are driving a vehicle with light snow on the ground, what you will notice when you turn, is that the back tires do not follow the same track made by the front wheels. In fact, the back wheels align further inside the turn than the front wheels.

Now a turn is basically a big circle, with a radius at some point at the very center of the circle on the inside of the turn. Since the back wheels follow a path closer to the inside of the turn, they are moving about a shorter radius than the front wheels.

The distance around the circle can be calculated using the formula 2*pi*r. pi = 3.14159, and r is the circle's radius. You can therefore calculate that the distance around the circle is smaller for the back wheels than it is for the front wheels. Because of this, it takes more revolutions of the front wheels for each cycle around that circle (or fraction thereof) than it takes for the back wheels. YET since you are in 4wd, you are FORCING the front and back wheels to turn at the SAME speed. The only way that you can move forward in this circumstance is by having one or more of your tires SLIP ON THE GROUND. The back of your truck weighs less, so this is more likely going to happen at your back wheels, which will slip FORWARD in order to turn more than the circle's radius indicates.

The problem with doing this is that (1) it will wear your tires incredibly quickly, and (2) all of this force is causing EXTREME tension on your driveline, right from your front hubs, through the axle shafts, differential, driveshaft, transfer case, rear driveshaft, differential, axles, and hubs. If you keep doing this, eventually you are going to break something where you're overstressing it.

Now when you are operating on a slippery surface, it doesn't matter as much, because the surface itself can't hold enough torque to cause you any problems. Do please be careful and limit your use of 4wd to slippery surfaces. If you must drive on a high traction surface like a clean paved road, try not to steer much.


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## RJ lindblom (Sep 21, 2006)

ScubaSteve728;1522961 said:


> Its my truck i got better **** to do with my time then read the owners manual. Id be suprised if all u guys can even read


You who can't spell or form a cohesive sentence claiming we can't read? That would warrants a GTFO smack. Your willful ignorance is pathetic. Frankly it would show me as an employer that you have no marketable skills, therefore unemployable.

As I tried to explain in tiny little words to you earlier... If you take care of your equipment it will take care of you. If you abuse it, you will be left stranded. WIth your atttitude you'd deserve it.


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## Andy96XLT (Jan 1, 2009)

wow... just wow


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

jmac5058;1522633 said:


> You need some schooling , a posi is NOT a limited slip and a limited slip is not a locker. Posi is the older way of getting both tires traction then they went to limited slip and now most use lockers. GM first with G-80 locker that engauges automaticly after one tire slips a bit , Ford now has a switch in the cab that you can turn on the locking rear end when in 4x4 . Dodge still has limited slip , so does Toyota but I dont like including them in talk about trucks.


I see you need one too. Posi, as in Posi-traction is a GM trademark name for their Eaton designed LIMITED SLIP. Same as the trademark names such as Trac-loc, Power-loc etc that other manufactures used for THEIR limited slip differentials. Because they're all limited slip differentials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-slip_differential


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

RJ lindblom;1522820 said:


> Then he start bashing Fords, because he can't properly operate a 4 wheel drive vehicle.
> 
> So wonder who owns the field behind his buddy's house? Go tear that field up and piss off the landowner. That is good thinking there. Good grief.


yall dont know anything it was his field lmao


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

Triton2286;1522946 said:


> He complains in his other tread that we should lay off him because he's a kid. Well he sure proved that since apparently I'm a TURD,
> 
> Grow up. If you want us to give you more respect than maybe you should try to be the bigger man instead of giving childish responses every time.


what is this the state jail 
the hierarchic of plowsite


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## ScubaSteve728 (Jan 17, 2012)

im sorry before i went to drive around in the field that my buddy owns i turned the 4x4 on in the drive way to make sure it was in working order then tried to turn onto the field and it felt weird to me sorry call the plowsite police on me i clearly abuse my truck!


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

I think it's time to wrap this one up and move on guys

thanks


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