# Ferrendino and son just put a cap on Walgreens accounts



## BRL1 (Sep 13, 2014)

Hey guys so I just received a email saying that Ferrendino has had to put a cap on the total amount of services we can do for the snow season. 
We are also supposed to keep track of service prices and do not exceed the cap. I have 2 Walgreens stores in my town and I know that last season the total for both was way over the cap set by Walgreens. The real kicker is that if we reach the cap we ARE SUPPOSED TO KEEP SERVICING THE STORES!!!!
This makes me pretty uneasy especially sense I have contracts with them that will take most of my time.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

So what's your plan? Continue on like always or walk away?


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## BRL1 (Sep 13, 2014)

Camden;1837503 said:


> So what's your plan? Continue on like always or walk away?


I am not sure yet.. not going to make a rash decision ill probably do the math and see how many services I can bill and then see how many snow events it will cover. The rest would be on me


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Why do guys want to work to lose money? Just write a check to me and sit home.


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

Are they talking about dollar amount not to exceed for this plowing season


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## cbservicesllc (Aug 5, 2011)

grandview;1837512 said:


> Why do guys want to work to lose money? Just write a check to me and sit home.


I know right? This is the problem... these guys can d**k everyone around... maybe if all the subs walked away they would get a clue... but no... some sucker will always do it...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

grandview;1837512 said:


> Why do guys want to work to lose money? Just write a check to me and sit home.


Screw you, I'm closer.

Send it to me.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

BRL1;1837497 said:


> Hey guys so I just received a email saying that Ferrendino has had to put a cap on the total amount of services we can do for the snow season.
> We are also supposed to keep track of service prices and do not exceed the cap. I have 2 Walgreens stores in my town and I know that last season the total for both was way over the cap set by Walgreens. The real kicker is that if we reach the cap we ARE SUPPOSED TO KEEP SERVICING THE STORES!!!!
> This makes me pretty uneasy especially sense I have contracts with them that will take most of my time.


in the olden days , 
it be time for a boycott, but they got the market cornered.
run forrest , run


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;1837528 said:


> Screw you, I'm closer.
> 
> Send it to me.


Screw both of you, I'm closer

Send it to me.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

Well if you want to mail me a check I'll also throw in a free kick where the sun don't shine.

If the cap is set where usm has the seasonal prices set here you would be better off walking away. I've always said there are nationals that are fine to work with that will pay a decent rate but some of this is laughable. Gotta know when to walk away. 3k to plow salt and do the walks for the season for walgreens? SIGN ME UP!


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## BRL1 (Sep 13, 2014)

First of all this was just some how Added to my contract. I will not work to lose money either. That's just idiotic I can't see the sub contractors actually going for this. What if we get a hell of a winter and you can't bill them for your service?! Screw that. I just don't know If it is a gamble we should take or not.
And yes it's a cap on the total amount you can bill them for services.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Walk away.................and send me the check.


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## BRL1 (Sep 13, 2014)

Mark Oomkes;1837551 said:


> Walk away.................and send me the check.


I don't understand where you guys are getting this check thing. I'm not getting paid if I walk away.


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

If they don't want to exceed a certain amount, what are their expectations for the lot when that amount has been reached? 
They have to understand material and fuel aren't cheap. I hope they don't expect someone to do it for free after that amount has been reached


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

Keep lining the pockets of Nationals. Lmao


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

BRL1;1837557 said:


> I don't understand where you guys are getting this check thing. I'm not getting paid if I walk away.


LOL. They're saying you are going to lose money. Instead of working and losing money just send them the money you are going to lose and stay home. At least this way you just lost the money and didn't have to work to lose it.


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## BRL1 (Sep 13, 2014)

gc3;1837562 said:


> If they don't want to exceed a certain amount, what are their expectations for the lot when that amount has been reached?
> They have to understand material and fuel aren't cheap. I hope they don't expect someone to do it for free after that amount has been reached


They are expecting you to do it for free.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Sounds like this term"cap" is just another term for a low ball seasonal! And if it snows very little you're also screwed! Who thinks up these schemes? Are there really people who give these contracts a second look? This is pure madness!


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I'm guessing you are billing on a per plow, per salt basis. They have set a maximum amount they want to spend in the winter. If you reach the max you don't get anymore and if you don't reach it you get paid for only what you've done. If that max amount is equal to or higher then you seasonal averages you should be ok. Basically that is how we work here but we get that amount even when it isn't reach. So on a light winter we do well.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

BRL1;1837557 said:


> I don't understand where you guys are getting this check thing. I'm not getting paid if I walk away.


You say your from Wyoming,but I think your in Missouri:laughingayup


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## IDOCTORTREES (Dec 27, 2006)

We don't work for nationals ever ! They always sound good,never works out good . I still believe that all of you should not until you can get paid a fair amount. Stick together and they will pay.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

grandview;1837580 said:


> You say your from Wyoming,but I think your in Missouri:laughingayup


Hey now
I got same e-mail I told them no

I told them no last year


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

IDOCTORTREES;1837599 said:


> We don't work for nationals ever ! They always sound good,never works out good . I still believe that all of you should not until you can get paid a fair amount. Stick together and they will pay.


union like :salute:


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

Like another guy on lawnsite said about nationals, most of them (not all) are pretty much like organized crime groups and should be looked into under the Ricco act. They pretty much steal from contractors and get away with it. Don't work for them! Get your own work! Be your own boss!


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## B-2 Lawncare (Feb 11, 2012)

you must be in Cheyenne?


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## BRL1 (Sep 13, 2014)

94gt331;1837654 said:


> Like another guy on lawnsite said about nationals, most of them (not all) are pretty much like organized crime groups and should be looked into under the Ricco act. They pretty much steal from contractors and get away with it. Don't work for them! Get your own work! Be your own boss!


We have done their sites here for over 2 years for their landscaping and this is the first issue we have ran into with them. I'm really getting turned off quick though.

And I'm sorry i didn't understand the whole check thing at first. Lol

And yes I'm in cheyenne


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

BRL1;1837662 said:


> We have done their sites here for over 2 years for their landscaping and this is the first issue we have ran into with them. I'm really getting turned off quick though.
> 
> And I'm sorry i didn't understand the whole check thing at first. Lol
> 
> And yes I'm in cheyenne


Sometimes it takes awhile to catch onto this sites sense of humor. But now that you understand send the check to me and I promise to not post pics of the cool stuff I buy with the money. :laughing:


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## BRL1 (Sep 13, 2014)

kimber750;1837672 said:


> Sometimes it takes awhile to catch onto this sites sense of humor. But now that you understand send the check to me and I promise to not post pics of the cool stuff I buy with the money. :laughing:


I'm thinking I could spend all that money I lose on some cool stuff myself lol


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

T & M after the cap


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

okay, I'm really a national provider, send me half the check now. If you exceed the cap, send me the other half after calling into my call center in India


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

cet;1837573 said:



> I'm guessing you are billing on a per plow, per salt basis. They have set a maximum amount they want to spend in the winter. If you reach the max you don't get anymore and if you don't reach it you get paid for only what you've done. If that max amount is equal to or higher then you seasonal averages you should be ok. Basically that is how we work here but we get that amount even when it isn't reach. So on a light winter we do well.





gc3;1837690 said:


> T & M after the cap


That. If your under the cap that's what you'll get paid.Over the cap you suck it up and can't bill for more money.


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## xtreem3d (Nov 26, 2005)

grandview;1837580 said:


> You say your from Wyoming,but I think your in Missouri:laughingayup


Hey..was that a shot ? Cuz that sounded like a shot :laughing: :waving:


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## SPSkyo8530 (Dec 7, 2009)

We had 9 sites last year on a seasonal price, so we only got paid per month the seasonal rate, no matter how many times we went out. What I found worked best was when their store managers requested additional service, I responded and had the store manager generate a service request through CBRE. It usually happened with 1 inch of snow, they wanted plowed and salted and they were on a 2" trigger. I would walk the manager out with my tape measure and if it was under 2", I told them I was leaving, or they could submit the form. Once the form was generated, I was able to get paid for the additional work because I had work order #'s and PO #'s. We didn't do bad on our seasonals, even though we had an extremely long winter with salt shortages and above average snowfall.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

If it turns out to be a really light winter do you get a bonus? That's what they are asking for. 

I have seen a lot of bad talk on here about this company (Ferrendino) and yet you have done repeat work with them. Never any trouble getting paid or any other problems with them.


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

Tell them you will cap the service, if they cap the snowfall.


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## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

cet that is whats wrong with the picture you eat it in a heavy winter and you eat it in a light winter. Its not a seasonal contract. they are hoping to not pay due to a light year and demanding not to pay in case of a heavy year. no possible upside. RUN RUN RUN! or if you don't want to send any of us a check just cut one to fernendo. What a joke why do guys do this to themselves?


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

One way street is what their offer is, designed in their favor. You'll have pain on a light winter, and pain on a heavy winter. They don't give a rat about you.

Know when to say no.


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

They just won a bunch of rite aids around here. We have done one store for 10 years before now. I talked to them last week and they are offering 1/2 of what I was making per push per salt last year. What they want to pay us for salting won't cover the salt itself. I said no thanks. Top it off the company rep I spoke with was an ass.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Go in, tell the manager what is being asked and then ask him if he will keep giving you prescription meds even if there is a cap put on it by your doctor.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

BRL1;1837497 said:


> Hey guys so I just received a email saying that Ferrendino has had to put a cap on the total amount of services we can do for the snow season.
> We are also supposed to keep track of service prices and do not exceed the cap. I have 2 Walgreens stores in my town and I know that last season the total for both was way over the cap set by Walgreens. The real kicker is that if we reach the cap we ARE SUPPOSED TO KEEP SERVICING THE STORES!!!!
> This makes me pretty uneasy especially sense I have contracts with them that will take most of my time.


After the 'cap' is hit, who assumes liability ?

you and you keep services for free
you and you stop servicing 
them? likely not.

How many services is the cap anyway? those locations last year could have easily received 70-90 services total for how bad last winter was, some stores were salted 3-6x a day when it was really cold out, windy, blowing snow, re-freezes. They won't pay to mix in calcium or anything additional.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

SPSkyo8530;1837776 said:


> We had 9 sites last year on a seasonal price, so we only got paid per month the seasonal rate, no matter how many times we went out. What I found worked best was when their store managers requested additional service, I responded and had the store manager generate a service request through CBRE. It usually happened with 1 inch of snow, they wanted plowed and salted and they were on a 2" trigger. I would walk the manager out with my tape measure and if it was under 2", I told them I was leaving, or they could submit the form. Once the form was generated, I was able to get paid for the additional work because I had work order #'s and PO #'s. We didn't do bad on our seasonals, even though we had an extremely long winter with salt shortages and above average snowfall.


You walked out and measured one of the sites when they requested service under 2", did you do that for all 9 sites? How much time was spent dealing wtih just that nuisance versus if you could service as needed? CBRE does do Walgreens management. The problem with walgreens is that if you plow one, you are working for Walgreens, then CBRE "which isn't a great firm in itself", they're commercial real estate more than a management company, then working for sms, ferrandino, usm etc.... which are all not good to work for as proven by the numerous folks on here that have made claims of non payment, or being jerked around or severely late payments.

You literally have 3 different contracts you're adhering to just to get paid in the end, and you only know what one of those contracts looks like. What was the seasonal rate for a walgreens in your area? They're easily $10k per site locations in a bad winter such as last year, so if they wern't paying $2k a month for Dec-may, it wasn't enough for the liability.


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

SPSkyo8530;1837776 said:


> We had 9 sites last year on a seasonal price, so we only got paid per month the seasonal rate, no matter how many times we went out. What I found worked best was when their store managers requested additional service, I responded and had the store manager generate a service request through CBRE. It usually happened with 1 inch of snow, they wanted plowed and salted and they were on a 2" trigger. I would walk the manager out with my tape measure and if it was under 2", I told them I was leaving, or they could submit the form. Once the form was generated, I was able to get paid for the additional work because I had work order #'s and PO #'s. We didn't do bad on our seasonals, even though we had an extremely long winter with salt shortages and above average snowfall.


That sounds crazy to me. I would never take on a contract where I had to get the manager to come outside so we could measure the snow depth.

Again, these are crazy national contracts which I still find hard to believe guys are willing to jump through these hoops, play all the games just so they have work.


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

Does the store manager have any sway with the managing rep? Will the national rep budge some on the price or is he dead set on it?


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## SPSkyo8530 (Dec 7, 2009)

Ramairfreak98ss;1837868 said:


> You walked out and measured one of the sites when they requested service under 2", did you do that for all 9 sites? How much time was spent dealing wtih just that nuisance versus if you could service as needed?


We did very well with the accounts last year, and I have been pushing snow commercially for 15 years. Yes, I did bring the manager out after they called in for service because it trained them not to call in unless snowfall was over 2". I had one pesky manager that wanted his parking lot dry pavement all season and I had to "retrain" him about the contract that his company entered into with my company. It did not cost very much time as you would think considering the cost if I was dispatching a salt truck and plow crew every time they called in for service that was under the threshold. I wanted to put my eyes on the issue and being the owner I control the costs best.

What you did not pay attention to in my post was once they generated a work order, we got paid additional service money above the contract price. This happened several times where Ferrandino's dispatch center would call the stores to check conditions. The store managers would tell the operators at Ferrandino they had slippery conditions or that their lot needed a plow bad. Ferrandino would call and we would send a crew over (there is a 2 hour response time limit or you breach contract and they call another contractor to service), and the lots had 1 inch or less of snow. Our contracts stated 2 inches or more trigger. I would walk the manager out, put my tape in the lot and ask them to read it. If it was under 2" we either left or they generated a service work order and we were able to bill for service outside the contract. If the manager copped an attitude I told them to talk to their higher ups and adjust the contract so we could be paid for coming more. By the end of the season, the managers of most of my accounts were in the habit of generating work orders and everybody was happy, and all my expenses were covered.


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## SPSkyo8530 (Dec 7, 2009)

Ne1;1837871 said:


> That sounds crazy to me. I would never take on a contract where I had to get the manager to come outside so we could measure the snow depth.
> 
> Again, these are crazy national contracts which I still find hard to believe guys are willing to jump through these hoops, play all the games just so they have work.


Ne1: As I said above, this wasn't hard work. My Hoola Hoops made hundred dollar bills and I'll jump through them everyday while you sit and ***** about life.


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

SPSkyo8530;1837882 said:


> Ne1: As I said above, this wasn't hard work. My Hoola Hoops made hundred dollar bills and I'll jump through them everyday while you sit and ***** about life.


I never said it was hard work either... I guess where just to busy during storms to go in and find the manager to get an official reading with a tape measure. Congrats on ALL the money you make from Walgreens


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## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

Anyone who signs the subcontractor compliance package from Ferrandino is a complete moron. After reading this thread i called and received their compliance package to become a sub merely out of curiosity. The contract they require signed is comical and should just specify that you, the subcontractor, shall provide the Vaseline needed for them to violate you.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Ne1;1837871 said:


> That sounds crazy to me. I would never take on a contract where I had to get the manager to come outside so we could measure the snow depth.
> 
> Again, these are crazy national contracts which I still find hard to believe guys are willing to jump through these hoops, play all the games just so they have work.


Yep... shorter version of my longer version above.... with dozens and dozens of saltings last year i can only imagine how many wouldn't get paid for. We can't work for free.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

SPSkyo8530;1837880 said:


> We did very well with the accounts last year, and I have been pushing snow commercially for 15 years. Yes, I did bring the manager out after they called in for service because it trained them not to call in unless snowfall was over 2". I had one pesky manager that wanted his parking lot dry pavement all season and I had to "retrain" him about the contract that his company entered into with my company. It did not cost very much time as you would think considering the cost if I was dispatching a salt truck and plow crew every time they called in for service that was under the threshold. I wanted to put my eyes on the issue and being the owner I control the costs best.
> 
> What you did not pay attention to in my post was once they generated a work order, we got paid additional service money above the contract price. This happened several times where Ferrandino's dispatch center would call the stores to check conditions. The store managers would tell the operators at Ferrandino they had slippery conditions or that their lot needed a plow bad. Ferrandino would call and we would send a crew over (there is a 2 hour response time limit or you breach contract and they call another contractor to service), and the lots had 1 inch or less of snow. Our contracts stated 2 inches or more trigger. I would walk the manager out, put my tape in the lot and ask them to read it. If it was under 2" we either left or they generated a service work order and we were able to bill for service outside the contract. If the manager copped an attitude I told them to talk to their higher ups and adjust the contract so we could be paid for coming more. By the end of the season, the managers of most of my accounts were in the habit of generating work orders and everybody was happy, and all my expenses were covered.


Well i was never stating you did anything right or wrong.. sometimes it just takes getting down and dirty in the business with managers etc. A lot of people always claim you cant make any money off management companies which is untrue, but you do get screwed more times than not and thats really the complaint. All the power to you if they call in more services, however when they don't and there is a slip and fall under 2" when you technically can't do any service, why should that be OUR responsibility?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I just can't fathom for the life of me why anyone would jump thru such crap. 

Really, a 2in trigger is allowed at pharmaceutical dispensing facility for the sick and fragile......omg.


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## BRL1 (Sep 13, 2014)

1olddogtwo;1837914 said:


> I just can't fathom for the life of me why anyone would jump thru such crap.
> 
> Really, a 2in trigger is allowed at pharmaceutical dispensing facility for the sick and fragile......omg.


Well put...lol but everyone saying they have had problems getting paid and problems with this company confuses me. 
maybe I have had better luck with them and yes the sites do take extra time and work but they have always paid us and there has never really been a problem. I am not blind to the fact that what they are trying to do is wrong.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

SPSkyo8530;1837882 said:


> Ne1: As I said above, this wasn't hard work. My Hoola Hoops made hundred dollar bills and I'll jump through them everyday while you sit and ***** about life.


How many hundred dollar bills did you waste driving to the site and not being paid a service call?


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Everybody has been warned 
I can't see the need for back and forth on this issue 
Most chose not to work for them 
Those that do good for them they chose to let some one in an office run their company for them tell them when to plow and salt and may be they will get paid or may be they won't but again they have been warned and they made their decisions


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

ponyboy;1838038 said:


> Everybody has been warned
> I can't see the need for back and forth on this issue
> Most chose not to work for them
> Those that do good for them they chose to let some one in an office run their company for them tell them when to plow and salt and may be they will get paid or may be they won't but again they have been warned and they made their decisions


We'll said. I can't wait for spring time when the posts start about not getting paid...


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## tbi (Sep 30, 2007)

I can't believe anyone works for these scabs.


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## fireball (Jan 9, 2000)

I wouldn't call them scabs, rather festering puss


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## xjoedirt55x (Dec 11, 2009)

Somebody near Ferrindino's office should pile their front doors in with snow.... please!


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

xjoedirt55x;1838140 said:


> Somebody near Ferrindino's office should pile their front doors in with snow.... please!


Hahaha, done that before.


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## xjoedirt55x (Dec 11, 2009)

1olddogtwo;1838145 said:


> Hahaha, done that before.


They deserve lots of it.... MORE MORE MORE lol.


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## BRL1 (Sep 13, 2014)

So is ferrindino one of the worst of the nationals or are they all about the same.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

SPSkyo8530;1837880 said:


> We did very well with the accounts last year, and I have been pushing snow commercially for 15 years. Yes, I did bring the manager out after they called in for service because it trained them not to call in unless snowfall was over 2". I had one pesky manager that wanted his parking lot dry pavement all season and I had to "retrain" him about the contract that his company entered into with my company. It did not cost very much time as you would think considering the cost if I was dispatching a salt truck and plow crew every time they called in for service that was under the threshold. I wanted to put my eyes on the issue and being the owner I control the costs best.
> 
> What you did not pay attention to in my post was once they generated a work order, we got paid additional service money above the contract price. This happened several times where Ferrandino's dispatch center would call the stores to check conditions. The store managers would tell the operators at Ferrandino they had slippery conditions or that their lot needed a plow bad. Ferrandino would call and we would send a crew over (there is a 2 hour response time limit or you breach contract and they call another contractor to service), and the lots had 1 inch or less of snow. Our contracts stated 2 inches or more trigger. I would walk the manager out, put my tape in the lot and ask them to read it. If it was under 2" we either left or they generated a service work order and we were able to bill for service outside the contract. If the manager copped an attitude I told them to talk to their higher ups and adjust the contract so we could be paid for coming more. By the end of the season, the managers of most of my accounts were in the habit of generating work orders and everybody was happy, and all my expenses were covered.


Don't you want to work with customers who trust your judgement and let you do what is right?

I would shoot myself before signing a contract that requires someone's approval before plowing or salting.

Do you get their approval to cut the grass?


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

1olddogtwo;1838145 said:


> Hahaha, done that before.


Done that before also, got a call from the police and fire dept telling us to remove it in case of a fire they couldn't get in.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Well without getting into a whole of detail, it was pushed thru the overhead door. Access was easily accessible.

He thought if I had the gonads to do it with him standing there, he better pay up. 

I got my money and that was one of the tipping points of me not plowing for a few years. It just wasn't worth it.


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

Where's the video?


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

Mark Oomkes;1838250 said:


> Do you get their approval to cut the grass?


It probably depends, if the grass is close to 3.25" the manager has to sign for a separate WO and PO


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;1838250 said:


> I would shoot myself before signing a contract that requires someone's approval before plowing or salting.


well maybe if they were contractually bound to reimburse any and all time and costs for slip and falls or snow related liabilities including but not limited to plaintiff awards, my time, legal fees, lost revenue, increased future insurance cost, etc.

Just because your contract gets you released from a action it's still expensive to defend yourself.


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

1olddogtwo;1838322 said:


> Well without getting into a whole of detail, it was pushed thru the overhead door. Access was easily accessible.
> 
> He thought if I had the gonads to do it with him standing there, he better pay up.
> 
> I got my money and that was one of the tipping points of me not plowing for a few years. It just wasn't worth it.


I have ZERO doubt that you did this. Lol.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Sawboy;1838627 said:


> I have ZERO doubt that you did this. Lol.


Ya, I want to say 96/97. Didn't get back into the game until the blizzard of 99 hit. I was doing OK until that hit.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

BRL1;1837557 said:


> I don't understand where you guys are getting this check thing. I'm not getting paid if I walk away.


I'll take a check, too. And I'll buy ya a .


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## SnoDaddy (Dec 17, 2012)

Has anyone read a Ferrandino contract? It is hilarious how bad they can screw you. I can't believe people sign these then say they got screwed! Read it you idiots. It says they can screw you, name the position.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

Post a copy if it


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## SnoDaddy (Dec 17, 2012)

I will soon as I figure out how


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

I've only spoke to them just to say please don't call me I'm not interested


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## SnoDaddy (Dec 17, 2012)

) Compensation: As soon as your work is completed, you must submit all Work Order(s) signed by our 
customer’s representatives, along with an invoice reconciling the activity for each customer. We will 
issue your payment 30 days after the date that we receive and process your invoice. Processing of 
invoices typically takes 10-14 days. Payment will be issued to you provided we have received your 
invoice within 30 days from the last day of the month that you provided the Services and we have 
received all required paperwork hereunder. Depending on the project, a signed and notarized lien 
release may be required for execution by you and submitted to us in advance of processing your 
payment. Invoices submitted after 30 days shall be deemed stale and subject to payment only at 
Ferrandino’s discretion. We are not obligated to pay you until we receive payment from our customer. 
You assume the risk of non-payment by our customer for any reason including, without limitation, our 
customer’s bankruptcy, insolvency, reorganization, financial distress, nonperformance, dissatisfaction 
with services, or any other reason in or out of our control. You also hereby waive your right to 
commence an action for payment against a Ferrandino customer or file any encumbrances upon the 
property. In the event a customer shall file Bankruptcy and recover from Ferrandino any su


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## SnoDaddy (Dec 17, 2012)

That's pretty much the best part of it. They pay you if they feel like it and you guys agree to it. Smarten up!


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## SnoDaddy (Dec 17, 2012)

Confidentiality and Non-Compete: Confidential Information: You acknowledge that confidential and 
proprietary business information and trade secrets including, without limitation, our customer lists, the 
Services provided and the prices charged for them, our billing and payment procedures, our Work 
Orders, schedules, contracts, and other forms (hereinafter the “Confidential” Information”) will become 
known by you. Disclosure of same will cause irreparable harm to us. You covenant neither to reveal to 
others nor to use it, except as authorized by us in writing, the Confidential Information. Said 
representation will survive termination of the Contract. Upon termination you must return all such 
Confidential Information to Ferrandino. 
Non-Competition: During the term of this Agreement and for a period of twenty-four (24) months 
thereafter, you and your officers, shareholders, and directors agree not to contract, solicit, or do 
business with any of our customers (or their contractors, assigns or designees) for whom you performed 
Services under this Agreement, regardless of the location where you performed the Services. IF YOU 
VIOLATE THIS SECTION, THEN IN ADDITION TO ANY INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AND 
ADDITIONAL DAMAGES TO WHICH WE ARE ENTITLED, YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE 
IMMEDIATELY TO PAY US A MINIMUM AMOUNT OF DAMAGES EQUAL TO THREE 
(3) TIMES THE ACTUAL MONTHLY REVENUE FOR EACH LOCATION THAT YOU 
SERVICED IN VIOLATION OF THIS NON-COMPETITION COVENANT, PLUS ANY 
LEGAL FEES, COSTS AND EXPENSES INCURRED BY US TO ENFORCE OUR RIGHTS 
HEREUNDER. ACTUAL MONTHLY REVENUE SHALL BE DEEMED TO BE THAT 
MONTH REPRSENTING THE HIGHEST MONTHLY REVENUE DURING THE 
PERFORMANCE OF THE FERRANDINO CONTRACT.


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## SnoDaddy (Dec 17, 2012)

I can go for days. Moral of the story. Like drugs, JUST SAY NO!


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

But why would I say no to them


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Non compete laws are illegal in NY


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

SnoDaddy;1840751 said:


> I can go for days. Moral of the story. Like drugs, JUST SAY NO!


It could literally say "You most likely will not be paid for your services" and people would still agree to it.


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## cbservicesllc (Aug 5, 2011)

So not only all that BS, but their Terms are basically Net 45? Yeah, No Thanks...


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

It should just say we need more money go plow and then spend hours and hours if paper work to us all so we can keep the money that you worked for


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

Who signs that sh!t? Seriously? If ya need money that bad, or "gotta keep your guys / equipment running", you're too big for your own britches.


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

You would be better sitting home and paying your guys to sit home then beat on your equipment


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

I said No after reading the contract they sent me last year I pass it on to next guy and they didn't get paid and they found another he didn't get paid till mid summer and They didn't renew with them this year.
So F/S sent me a e-mail asking again, I told them no again this time I told them to remove my e-mail from there contact list


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## snowbrothers101 (Jul 27, 2009)

I spoke to my FAM for my stores who I ahve known for 10 years. He said the CAP was a Walgreens decision and that after Ferandinno told them that this would only screw the vendors, and they heard it from their stores, they already backed off and said no cap. My FAM said he knew it was a bad idea bot "those boys in Deerfield dont know their you know what from their you know what"!

Who can be surprrised by what Walgreens does after they are trying to stop paying their required taxes!


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## Kramer (Nov 13, 2004)

LapeerLandscape;1837809 said:


> If it turns out to be a really light winter do you get a bonus? That's what they are asking for.
> 
> So for you guys on here who charge by the season....if you bid for seasonal and its a big year, isn't it close to the same thing when you lose your shirt?


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## cbservicesllc (Aug 5, 2011)

LapeerLandscape;1837809 said:


> If it turns out to be a really light winter do you get a bonus? That's what they are asking for.
> 
> So for you guys on here who charge by the season....if you bid for seasonal and its a big year, isn't it close to the same thing when you lose your shirt?


That's why you have to have a balance... monthly, per time, hourly, etc...


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Kramer;1841650 said:


> So for you guys on here who charge by the season....if you bid for seasonal and its a big year, isn't it close to the same thing when you lose your shirt?


We have never lost our shirts with seasonal, yes we make less during bad winters but we make more during light winters. I properly bid and written seasonal contract will keep you from loosing money.

This is much different than working and not getting paid.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Kramer;1841650 said:


> LapeerLandscape;1837809 said:
> 
> 
> > If it turns out to be a really light winter do you get a bonus? That's what they are asking for.
> ...


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## jasonz (Nov 5, 2010)

all the perks of a seasonal contract for ferrendino none of the perks for the contractor.


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

To me this seems like they want the (cake) and eat it too , it's even better for them to put a cap on it ,then a Flat Rate , At least on a flat rate you undertnd the risk and get paid even if no snow , with a cap as I understand it you only get paid per push ,,, so no snow. No Pay ,,, and to much snow no extra pay. It's a bad deal all around , I think. If you take risk on flat rate it fair ,as you know. Going into it ,, per Push should be the same they get the risk and if it snow a lot you get paid for all the work done , People should walk away from caps , as it is not fair. To the sub


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Hey now, easy on those of us from the "Show Me State." I can tell you that I would have ZERO problems telling them to go pound sand and walk away. I would be sure to do it now rather than wait and leave them in a lurch during a storm. I'm sure they have something in there contracts that would hold you 100% liable if it didn't get done and something happened. I would definitely have even less of a hard time saying adios if that account was going to be the majority of your work for the season. Bail now while you still have time to find a replacement for that account.

I did question in another thread why you guys even give these A Hole nationals the time of day. I won't work for them. They call me/e mail me once or twice a year wanting me to go bid and I tell them nope, not interested. They always act shocked as though I should be bowing to kiss their feet and ask why and I always tell them that I refuse to work for free and also that my customers sign MY contract, not the other way around.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

derekslawncare;1844094 said:


> Hey now, easy on those of us from the "Show Me State." I can tell you that I would have ZERO problems telling them to go pound sand and walk away. I would be sure to do it now rather than wait and leave them in a lurch during a storm. I'm sure they have something in there contracts that would hold you 100% liable if it didn't get done and something happened.  I would definitely have even less of a hard time saying adios if that account was going to be the majority of your work for the season. Bail now while you still have time to find a replacement for that account.
> 
> I did question in another thread why you guys even give these A Hole nationals the time of day. I won't work for them. They call me/e mail me once or twice a year wanting me to go bid and I tell them nope, not interested. They always act shocked as though I should be bowing to kiss their feet and ask why and I always tell them that I refuse to work for free and also *that my customers sign MY contract, not the other way around.*


This right here. Thumbs Up


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## yardsmith (Jan 3, 2000)

We did work for walgreens here, mowing for a few years & snow removal 2 winters ago when they were with SMS; it was based on per event / push. We got paid & had little trouble with them. The next year they didn't get the contract (always someone willing to bid less), & Ferrandino got the winter contract. They called me the next fall with a seasonal contract offering me about half of what I made the previous year. Before I could even crunch numbers & tell them no thanks, someone else already jumped on it lol. The one store manager got the bright idea 'hey we're paying a flat fee so lets call him back 2-3 times per storm ro get more salt, shoveling, etc. I figured the seasonal total amt they offered would have been used up by the 2nd week of January hahaha. They ended up going thru 2-3 different contractors last winter. I will NOT do seasonal plow contracts unless the $$ is there, which it usually isn't. 
They called again this fall & was able to max out what they can offer which was considerably more, but with the salt shortage & venemous managers, & told them no thanks. 
Dynaserv had the summer contracts the past 2 years & I'm still waiting for 2 months payment during the summer being held hostage due to paperwork technicalities 
Never again


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## danknight163 (Nov 19, 2007)

what we need to do is get these ****** management company's to be liable for paying us like Ferrendino and others i got screwed 3 years ago from them,we need to boycott these management company's we need to keep all of use informed of the dirt backs out there


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

They'll never go away. There is always some dope that will play the game. Always the guy who loves to brag "I have to keep all this equipment working" while mocking the one truck guy like myself (who always get paid, and has zero stress). There will always be the guy who thinks "it will be different for me". Lol


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

What he said. I am in the dump trucking business and it is the same old story as well. Instead of being smart and standing up for higher rates the old adage is "as long as the wheels are turning its all good". Or how about "if you don't work you for sure wont make anything". Its all BS. The only winner is the customer with guys fighting for work, all the while the prices keep spiraling downward.


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## UnitedInc (Sep 19, 2011)

northernsweeper;1837816 said:


> Tell them you will cap the service, if they cap the snowfall.


LMFAO!:laughing:


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

SPSkyo8530;1837880 said:


> We did very well with the accounts last year, and I have been pushing snow commercially for 15 years. Yes, I did bring the manager out after they called in for service because it trained them not to call in unless snowfall was over 2". I had one pesky manager that wanted his parking lot dry pavement all season and I had to "retrain" him about the contract that his company entered into with my company. It did not cost very much time as you would think considering the cost if I was dispatching a salt truck and plow crew every time they called in for service that was under the threshold. I wanted to put my eyes on the issue and being the owner I control the costs best.
> 
> What you did not pay attention to in my post was once they generated a work order, we got paid additional service money above the contract price. This happened several times where Ferrandino's dispatch center would call the stores to check conditions. The store managers would tell the operators at Ferrandino they had slippery conditions or that their lot needed a plow bad. Ferrandino would call and we would send a crew over (there is a 2 hour response time limit or you breach contract and they call another contractor to service), and the lots had 1 inch or less of snow. Our contracts stated 2 inches or more trigger. I would walk the manager out, put my tape in the lot and ask them to read it. If it was under 2" we either left or they generated a service work order and we were able to bill for service outside the contract. If the manager copped an attitude I told them to talk to their higher ups and adjust the contract so we could be paid for coming more. By the end of the season, the managers of most of my accounts were in the habit of generating work orders and everybody was happy, and all my expenses were covered.


 most contracts say you are not allowed to talk to the manager and you must go throw the contract provider ,, I think the one you had in place said the same thing ,, surprised Ferrandino's , did not put a stop on you talking one on one to the store manager in order to not have to pay for sending you out on calls ,,, dont get me wrong I am glad you got paid ! ,, but in most case's it just dont happen the way you are saying ,most of the contractors get screwed on service call's that did not need done


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## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

I put a CAP on talking to NSPs myself. :^)


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## bakerproperty (Oct 18, 2013)

Will when you reach the cap just quite servicing the contracts and when they call remind them your at your cap and explain to them that you can't do it no more and if they still want it done have them give you a CC and charge at your rates.. That will start making them think about there stupid decisions


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## john r (Jan 3, 2001)

The next words in my dictionary after "Cap" are "Losing money" then "Work for free". Just plain stupid.


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## jasonz (Nov 5, 2010)

bakerproperty;1846567 said:


> Will when you reach the cap just quite servicing the contracts and when they call remind them your at your cap and explain to them that you can't do it no more and if they still want it done have them give you a CC and charge at your rates.. That will start making them think about there stupid decisions


yeah till you breach contract and they withhold payments on work you've already performed


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## ponyboy (Dec 19, 2006)

They are not going to pay even if you do the work 
U haven't got the point yet


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

Carolyn from ferrandino called again . they're in a pickle this year, again . seems like no one wants to even entertain bids . she asked if she could email me the props to be serviced w/o even asking if we were interested . lol


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

14 page vendor packet. mostly waiving all my rights to commence any action for payment against them . :laughing: :laughing:


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Citytow;1847116 said:


> 14 page vendor packet. mostly waiving all my rights to commence any action for payment against them . :laughing: :laughing:


So.......You gonna submit a Bid???......


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

Defcon 5;1847119 said:


> So.......You gonna submit a Bid???......


id rather have my toe nails pulled one by one


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## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

Citytow;1847116 said:


> 14 page vendor packet. mostly waiving all my rights to commence any action for payment against them . :laughing: :laughing:


Exactly, I read the vendor packet and laughed out loud for literally an hour.


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## Scooby snacks (Oct 14, 2014)

There a joke they sent me a location to plow and salt .site was about 2 archers they said salt was 115.00 an app. Salt this year will cost me more then that.


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

I would love to see the day , all of us, and everyone with a plow stood up for a good contract "fair" all at the same moment , and just left the national companies hanging ,,, I know I know it will never happen as someone will always take there bait , and learn the hard way , but man it sure would be nice to see them get caught with there paints down , and see them go back to the old days of one on one with store manager ,, < I think was better care ,,,


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Jack_Frost;1847504 said:


> I would love to see the day , all of us, and everyone with a plow stood up for a good contract "fair" all at the same moment , and just left the national companies hanging ,,, I know I know it will never happen as someone will always take there bait , and learn the hard way , but man it sure would be nice to see them get caught with there paints down


Most don't realize how close they are from getting caught with their pants down. And it does happen in cases. A lot of it is due to the fact that they make doing business difficult, use every loophole to not pay the ones who do their work, and so many in the industry communicate to each other now a days. Magill told me himself how difficult it is to find contractors. That was when we were on speaking terms. I'll never speak to that snake in the grass again.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

I think a lot of you guys are baking up the wrong tree. You need to start writing /calling/emailing the companies they are representing and let them know what is going on. They may think all is good because they send out 1 big check to these guys and may not know they are sticking to plow companies some of them are not even trying to collect and write it off as a loss and lesson.I'm sure Walgreens and any other national chain CEO starts to get couple hundred messages as to what's going on,things might charge,or not.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Not a problem, I'm already telling them to go fly a kite. Very simple, when no one will do the work, and the companies start having to settle slip and falls in court, I guarantee you they will be on the phone with the nationals finding out why none of their properties are being serviced.


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

grandview;1847527 said:


> I think a lot of you guys are baking up the wrong tree. You need to start writing /calling/emailing the companies they are representing and let them know what is going on. They may think all is good because they send out 1 big check to these guys and may not know they are sticking to plow companies some of them are not even trying to collect and write it off as a loss and lesson.I'm sure Walgreens and any other national chain CEO starts to get couple hundred messages as to what's going on,things might charge,or not.


 Great point ! Lets start a writing campaign ,, NOT kidding " I would love to find all the address of all the national comp and everyone with real problems express them to the C E O's how we are handled " abused " and payments , I know for a fact large comp like wall-mart and target all the rest monitor twitter ,, and we can get everyone talking real time about the facts I am sure the big box stores would do the right thing ,, no butty wants a black eye about how sub contractors are treated ,, working in there behalf for public safety if you think this would help and a good idea ,, lets start a form hear and not just talk, lets get moving forward, lets expose the problems we have in real time ,, and get the large companies to know what happens ,, I really think they will help us get treated better as they don't want that on there name, if anyone can help get this moving forward I would love the help


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

oops " no buddy"


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

grandview;1847527 said:


> I think a lot of you guys are baking up the wrong tree. You need to start writing /calling/emailing the companies they are representing and let them know what is going on. They may think all is good because they send out 1 big check to these guys and may not know they are sticking to plow companies some of them are not even trying to collect and write it off as a loss and lesson.I'm sure Walgreens and any other national chain CEO starts to get couple hundred messages as to what's going on,things might charge,or not.


Last year, well before we notified them, numerous contractors plowing public storage locations complained to individual stores, corporate and district managers and they told us they would not ever use Ferrandino again in the future once this contract expires. They had companies claiming they never got paid " in march" anything yet, companies stopping all services, jamming up locations where it took 12hrs to get another temp company out to plow... us bailing other locations out and then managers screaming at us...

Its true though, that they are always on the verge of collapse when they can't find someone for their peanut money to plow at the last second... or they go back to the devious unethical, illegal, unscrupulous tactics of getting guys to bail them out over the phone without anything signed, then don't pay months later, even though they saved their @$#%$#


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

Ramairfreak98ss;1849435 said:


> Last year, well before we notified them, numerous contractors plowing public storage locations complained to individual stores, corporate and district managers and they told us they would not ever use Ferrandino again in the future once this contract expires. They had companies claiming they never got paid " in march" anything yet, companies stopping all services, jamming up locations where it took 12hrs to get another temp company out to plow... us bailing other locations out and then managers screaming at us...
> 
> Its true though, that they are always on the verge of collapse when they can't find someone for their peanut money to plow at the last second... or they go back to the devious unethical, illegal, unscrupulous tactics of getting guys to bail them out over the phone without anything signed, then don't pay months later, even though they saved their @$#%$#


 So we all agree WE need to do something ,, and this needs to happen soon ,, I say the corporate stores will not like the feed back if this is all brought to light as a matter of a fact they may even thank us ,,,,, the big box stores did not get this big from doing bad biz ,, I would bet most are fair ,,, its the MIDDLE man that's giving them a black eye ,,,, so I ask you all how do we move forward ? what can to do to help inform the higher level people whats going on ? I am all for it just don't know the rout to take so any input of ideas would be great ! One I have to start is only doing biz with the MIDDLE man in writing "e-mail ,, so it can be documented ,, and re posted if they don't do as they agree ,,,,,,


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

They just called me to inquire about the local target parking lot, would be a great account to plow at, but I passed because I will never work for a national. Shame to pass on a nice account, but I like working face to face also.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

94gt331;1850526 said:


> They just called me to inquire about the local target parking lot, would be a great account to plow at, but I passed because I will never work for a national. Shame to pass on a nice account, but I like working face to face also.


They are just calling you about a Target parking lot....I think that's a Red Flag right there......Sounds to me everybody needs to stay away from Ferret-dino and sons and maybe they will crawl back under the rock they came from.....


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

Defcon 5;1850546 said:


> They are just calling you about a Target parking lot....I think that's a Red Flag right there......Sounds to me everybody needs to stay away from Ferret-dino and sons and maybe they will crawl back under the rock they came from.....


I agree, it's pretty sad, in the last 3 years there have been 3 larger plowing contractors servicing that location, and honestly they all done a pretty good job as far as I could tell. It's BS, those other contractors probaly got screwed by them, and Fernando called me, they don't even know anything about my service other than I was recomended by a local snow plow shop. I have 3 pickups and a skid, I would have to ditch half our plowing route to service that location, which I would consider if it was ran directly through target itself but I will stay small and loyal to my driveways and small comercials that pay in net 30.


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Next they will be changing their name...


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

I used to watch their tv show...sanfordendino & son. They have really gone to hell since then.


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## Longae29 (Feb 15, 2008)

The Targets Ferrandino offered us, the seasonal price should have been the monthly x 6.


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

Longae29;1850748 said:


> The Targets Ferrandino offered us, the seasonal price should have been the monthly x 6.


Yup. Last year,they offered me 25% of what I had been getting for ours. no thanks.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

they're hammerin us and a buddy of mine for their signed vender packs . sux to be ferrandino. theres one company that can suck soot


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## Bossman 92 (Sep 27, 2006)

northernsweeper;1850613 said:


> I used to watch their tv show...sanfordendino & son. They have really gone to hell since then.


:laughing: Now that's funny!


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## Ne1 (Jan 15, 2007)

There's going to come a time where these NSP's have burned through all the reputable contractors and they will be left begging for anybody with a truck and plow to take there ridiculous contracts.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

^you would think.....

but someone new always takes the work...


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

SnoFarmer;1850905 said:


> ^you would think.....
> 
> but someone new always takes the work...


Wow a statement I actually agree with you on.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

1olddogtwo;1850927 said:


> Wow a statement I actually agree with you on.


I'll try better, not to let it happen again.

:waving:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ne1;1850887 said:


> There's going to come a time where these NSP's have burned through all the reputable contractors and they will be left begging for anybody with a truck and plow to take there ridiculous contracts.


They have burned through most already.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

he bumped his head again . postmaster .


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

They haven't asked Bird yet.


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## tbi (Sep 30, 2007)

They offered me 18k all inclusive for a lowes I countered at 65k they countered with 20k I said good luck. 20k wouldn't have bought thre salt last year for a bare pavement policy.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

tbi;1851290 said:


> They offered me 18k all inclusive for a lowes I countered at 65k they countered with 20k I said good luck. 20k wouldn't have bought thre salt last year for a bare pavement policy.


Even if you agreed to that 20k.......You would never see all of that 20k.....


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

if you read the fine print in the packet , by signing it you have been entitled to obtain ALL liabilities to the property . including but not limited to ; ie slip/fall
ANY vehicle damage claim brought forward, curb/asphalt/concrete/soil/plantlife damages. 
F-MAN is not responsible for anything but collecting the funds . imagine that ?


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## tbi (Sep 30, 2007)

Defcon 5;1851293 said:


> Even if you agreed to that 20k.......You would never see all of that 20k.....


I wouldn't do it for the 65 either. They must really touch themselves daily especially after they offered $18 a sweep.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

grandview;1851205 said:


> They haven't asked Bird yet.


Something tells me he asked them.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Banksy;1851440 said:


> Something tells me he asked them.


But was late because his plow fell off.


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

they asked us to sweep target for the same 18 we told them no and no one elce would eather , they lost account the now we get $125 per


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## cbservicesllc (Aug 5, 2011)

SnoFarmer;1850905 said:


> ^you would think.....
> 
> but someone new always takes the work...


Absolutely....


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## jasonz (Nov 5, 2010)

Id love to know how much they step on the pricing, I wonder what they get to be the middle man.


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

A lot more than you would get, for doing the work.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

dittos on that


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## straightlinelan (Mar 9, 2008)

RUN NOW FROM THIS CONTRACT!!! I plowed for Ferrandino for 2 years. I plowed a small Party City for them. It took about 25 minutes to plow and 1/4 ton of salt. The 1st year they were extremely slow on paying but we eventually got all our money about June/July. 

We then agreed again last year and they totally screwed us around. I am still waiting for $3500.00 and I am getting every excuse under the sun why they wont pay. Glad I walked away from the 2 Targets they wanted us to do last year and kept my exposure down to 1 small lot.

I advise you and everyone to boycott Ferrandino. Personally I think we as a trade should avoid these national subcontract deals and hopefully force these corporations to hire locally. We can all dream though.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

straightlinelan;1853785 said:


> RUN NOW FROM THIS CONTRACT!!! I plowed for Ferrandino for 2 years. I plowed a small Party City for them. It took about 25 minutes to plow and 1/4 ton of salt. The 1st year they were extremely slow on paying but we eventually got all our money about June/July.
> 
> We then agreed again last year and they totally screwed us around. I am still waiting for $3500.00 and I am getting every excuse under the sun why they wont pay. Glad I walked away from the 2 Targets they wanted us to do last year and kept my exposure down to 1 small lot.
> 
> I advise you and everyone to boycott Ferrandino. Personally I think we as a trade should avoid these national subcontract deals and hopefully force these corporations to hire locally. We can all dream though.


This REALLY shouldn't have to be a dream. I know some on here say it will never happen, but it REALLY shouldn't be that difficult. If NO REAL CONTRACTORS will take their accounts, that only leaves the "fly by nights". When they fail miserably and fall on their face mid season like we all know they will, the nationals will have to fire them and get another. Again, no REAL CONTRACTORS take the bait, they get another who can't handle it. A few times in court for slip and falls and a few stores who can't open because their lots are buried and the Targets, Walmarts and everyone who use the NSP's will fire them and go back to hiring on their own. It may take 2-3 seasons, but it WILL HAPPEN as long as we ALL STICK TOGETHER. I mean, what do we have to lose? It looks like most of you are starting to turn down the contracts because they aren't paying enough anyways, so you already aren't servicing the accounts. So why not do it industry wide anyways. IT HAS TO WORK.


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

derekslawncare;1853793 said:


> This REALLY shouldn't have to be a dream. I know some on here say it will never happen, but it REALLY shouldn't be that difficult. If NO REAL CONTRACTORS will take their accounts, that only leaves the "fly by nights". When they fail miserably and fall on their face mid season like we all know they will, the nationals will have to fire them and get another. Again, no REAL CONTRACTORS take the bait, they get another who can't handle it. A few times in court for slip and falls and a few stores who can't open because their lots are buried and the Targets, Walmart's and everyone who use the NSP's will fire them and go back to hiring on their own. It may take 2-3 seasons, but it WILL HAPPEN as long as we ALL STICK TOGETHER. I mean, what do we have to lose? It looks like most of you are starting to turn down the contracts because they aren't paying enough anyways, so you already aren't servicing the accounts. So why not do it industry wide anyways. IT HAS TO WORK.


I agree ! we need to expose the run around we all get as well,, we should be posting all the correspondence online ,, and showing a track rec ,,,, as I said before if we all do this and stick together ,, the CEO's will not want to be embarrassed about how the sub's who are providing customer safety are being treated ,, they will have no choice but to side with the contractor ,, not the middle man ,, I really be leave if we all do this the tide will turn in are favor ,, service will be better one on one with store mgr


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

we have made it are rule if any national provider calls and needs service ,, wel will not do it! with out a C Card , up front and we run it before we go do the work ! we bid very high for being the "go to guy" they cry about it but always call back ,,,, you all should do the same never ever take the work "check is in the mail" we treat em all as if they have bed credit ,,,,,,


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

we've tried that . they say no , and they procede to the next phone number . 
told them ( a secretary cold caller ) to have the district super call us , not her.

the only way we are able to provide a service to a multi million dollar company is to retain funds up front . when said funds are exhausted , service is terminated and more funds need to be deposited in an account. then and ONLY then will service continue . 

however , thats not how they roll . they want the upper hand on our head .

see , they know (the sharks) that there are an unlimited source of fly by nite contractors (the guppies) to be swallowed up .


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## cbservicesllc (Aug 5, 2011)

derekslawncare;1853793 said:


> This REALLY shouldn't have to be a dream. I know some on here say it will never happen, but it REALLY shouldn't be that difficult. If NO REAL CONTRACTORS will take their accounts, that only leaves the "fly by nights". When they fail miserably and fall on their face mid season like we all know they will, the nationals will have to fire them and get another. Again, no REAL CONTRACTORS take the bait, they get another who can't handle it. A few times in court for slip and falls and a few stores who can't open because their lots are buried and the Targets, Walmarts and everyone who use the NSP's will fire them and go back to hiring on their own. It may take 2-3 seasons, but it WILL HAPPEN as long as we ALL STICK TOGETHER. I mean, what do we have to lose? It looks like most of you are starting to turn down the contracts because they aren't paying enough anyways, so you already aren't servicing the accounts. So why not do it industry wide anyways. IT HAS TO WORK.


Well said... Agreed...


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

ussmileyflag this is why we need to air the dirty laundry online and get the ceo's accountable


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

CityTow,

There's only an unlimited supply of "guppies" as you put it, UNTIL THEY ALL FOLD AND CLOSE UP SHOP/GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Lets face it, the way this industry works is that when we have a great winter (lots of snow) the next winter, every knucklehead with a 4x4 thinks he needs to get into the business and get his share. But, when we have a crappy winter, (4 years ago when we only got 4.5" the whole season - our average is 24"-26" per winter) then at the end of the season, you see all kinds of slightly used stuff for sale because all the guppies lost their asses. 

SOOOOOOOOOO, common sense would tell you the same would apply if all these guppies took on these national accounts and either couldn't service them properly and were fired mid season, or didn't get paid and went out of business. And believe me, us guppies talk to each other, what do you think is going on on this sight right now.

Like I said, It may take 2 or 3 winters, they will all fold at some point, because they don't have the cash flow that the big guys have to "absorb" some of the loss. Again, as I said, it might take a few Walmarts and Targets going to court because they are getting sued for S & F's. Then they will see the light, they will come to their senses and figure it may cost them a little more, but in the long run, it pays to hire a reputable company (that has the equipment to properly service their properties, has the capital and facility to stockpile salt so they aren't running out mid season and everything else that separates those of us who know what we are doing from those who don't. It just takes patience on our parts to let the fly by nights fail. 

IT CAN BE DONE.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

derekslawncare;1854118 said:


> CityTow,
> 
> There's only an unlimited supply of "guppies" as you put it, UNTIL THEY ALL FOLD AND CLOSE UP SHOP/GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Lets face it, the way this industry works is that when we have a great winter (lots of snow) the next winter, every knucklehead with a 4x4 thinks he needs to get into the business and get his share. But, when we have a crappy winter, (4 years ago when we only got 4.5" the whole season - our average is 24"-26" per winter) then at the end of the season, you see all kinds of slightly used stuff for sale because all the guppies lost their asses.
> 
> ...


good point . this guppy knows better. been there . know that these corps have a litigation team of unlimited resources . that being established , my point is they know it wouldnt BE WORTH A COURT BATTLE for a guppy to recoup their losses. so the result is to turn around , lick your wounds and learn .

and there will ALWAYS be an uninformed,young ,eager plow jockey team ready to sign up , chomping at the bit looking at the forest before the trees .


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

Citytow;1854133 said:


> good point . this guppy knows better. been there . know that these corps have a litigation team of unlimited resources . that being established , my point is they know it wouldnt BE WORTH A COURT BATTLE for a guppy to recoup their losses. so the result is to turn around , lick your wounds and learn .
> 
> and there will ALWAYS be an uninformed,young ,eager plow jockey team ready to sign up , chomping at the bit looking at the forest before the trees .


No, you misunderstood my post. I'm quite positive that trying to sue the NSP's would be a complete waste of your time and money. What I said/meant was that after the NSP's hire the fly by nights who will work for their crap pay, that the corporations who hire the NSP's would find themselves in court facing a slip and fall lawsuit due to their properties not being serviced properly. And I guarantee the LAST thing the big corp's CEO wants is litigation against his company finding it's way onto the evening news. So, after that happens 2-3 times, the CEOs will figure out that the NSP's aren't properly vetting the contractors that they hire. The NSP's will get canned and the corp's will go back to hiring on their own.
Again, it will take some time, and require some patience on our parts, as legitimate contractors, to let it happen, but at some point it will. Then you will be back in business servicing the properties that you larger companies should be servicing.


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## Citytow (Sep 21, 2014)

i really would like to see that day . very well possible .


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

when it come to being able to sue , I think if enough of us singed on we would have a "class action" case it would be "big big bucks " so I am sure not hard to find a top firm to take the case ,,, as I said before we all stand together call out whats being done and how much abuse is done systematically , it would be pretty easy to prove ,, and once again I feel most the CEO's would be surprised how much abuse to the service / safety provider and would prob side with us if it was to get out to social Medea


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

Jack_Frost;1854182 said:


> when it come to being able to sue , I think if enough of us singed on we would have a "class action" case it would be "big big bucks " so I am sure not hard to find a top firm to take the case ,,, as I said before we all stand together call out whats being done and how much abuse is done systematically , it would be pretty easy to prove ,, and once again I feel most the CEO's would be surprised how much abuse to the service / safety provider and would prob side with us if it was to get out to social Medea


Problem is, they owe one company $500 for one service, and another company $19k for several but are in dispute over how the service was performed, and owe another company 28k for services from two years ago but have multiple disputes and none of us are even in the same state, so it would have to be handled by a federal court and costs lots to handle... If 60 of us were owed $50-100k each OR MORE then thats another story.

I laugh when i see guys on her posting about one of these companies owing them $500 or $1500 etc... i would love to be in their shoes then! At the same time i understand and feel for them, as that $500 may be what hurts me at $5000 etc.

On another note, since Ferrandino has walgreens and public storages this year, i noticed in the last couple salting events that none of these sites were salted. Maybe once when we've salted a handful of times by then on our own accounts. I've not once yet passed a site they manage and have seen a company coming out or doing a salt service either. they must be FAST!


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

a cap seems to be like a flat rate contract ,, but if it dont snow they keep the cash ,, if it does you have all the risk , I would never ever do that ,,, I think if you are willing try to get them to do a flat rate for the yr and you will at least get paid for your risk,,, and allot of times it will even out in the end that way , Caps should never be done


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## bakerproperty (Oct 18, 2013)

I quite working with them few years back.. best thing I could of done..


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