# Bulk Purchasing of Salt



## IceMonster (Apr 12, 2018)

Hello!

I came across the forum when looking into buying bulk salt (found this thread: https://www.plowsite.com/threads/salt-prices-2017.170947/). This forum seems like a great source of information!

Is there a thread discussing where everyone goes to buy salt in bulk? I searched around with no luck. I am looking around at pricing (domestic, abroad) and trying to determine if there is a cheaper source. Any favorite suppliers here? I probably buy ~8,000 tons a season.

I am based in the Northeast US.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Suppliers are somewhat localized. Other than buying direct, but I'm not sure how much of that occurs. 

That's a pretty good amount, I'd definitely try to buy direct from the mine(s) rather than a broker.


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

8000 ton!

They should come looking for you. Some of our counties don't use that.

We are in a watershed and have some reporting to do if we exceed 500 for the season.
I never have had to, but I'm aware of some younger contractors that should and don't even know the rules. One day a visit from MOE will fix that.
https://wellington-north.com/conten...s/public-works/roads/salt_management_plan.pdf


----------



## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

there is a place in Syracuse selling salt from Egypt, nice stuff


----------



## IceMonster (Apr 12, 2018)

leolkfrm said:


> there is a place in Syracuse selling salt from Egypt, nice stuff


Do you have any contact information?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

leolkfrm said:


> there is a place in Syracuse selling salt from Egypt, nice stuff


I still haven't heard the end of someone's whining aboot Egyptian salt...and that was 3 or 4 seasons ago. @Defcon 5


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I still haven't heard the end of someone's whining aboot Egyptian salt...and that was 3 or 4 seasons ago. @Defcon 5


Why at every turn do you attempt to throw me under the bus....I don't recall saying anything of the sort


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> Why at every turn do you attempt to throw me under the bus....I don't recall saying anything of the sort


I'm not throwing you under the bus...I was stating a fact.

I can probably find the texts.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm not throwing you under the bus...I was stating a fact.
> 
> I can probably find the texts.


Sure


----------



## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

IceMonster said:


> Do you have any contact information?


i do not, but will find out,


----------



## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mr.Markus said:


> 8000 ton!
> 
> They should come looking for you. Some of our counties don't use that.
> 
> ...


Your starting to sound
Old.


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Starting....lol.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I still haven't heard the end of someone's whining aboot Egyptian salt...and that was 3 or 4 seasons ago. @Defcon 5


That Egyptian salt was ****ing garbage, if Todd said it was crap, It was an understatement!

Where in the northeast are you?

Better have a place to put it because around here the water freezes and freighters don't do well in ice.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

BossPlow2010 said:


> That Egyptian salt was ******* garbage, if Todd said it was crap, It was an understatement!


Beyond crap.....Took twice as much to do the job...That's if you could get enough out of the frozen solid pile...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Yup...that was the whining I heard...all winter long.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Yup...that was the whining I heard...all winter long.


The only whining that was heard that winter was from you proclaiming that you hate lake effect and it can stop now


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> The only whining that was heard that winter was from you proclaiming that you hate lake effect and it can stop now


I love lake effect.

I wish it would start now...got a new toy to play with.

I'm considering driving up to TC and giving @Landgreen a hand...he told me his retainer fee is keeping my flask full.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I love lake effect.
> 
> I wish it would start now...got a new toy to play with.
> 
> I'm considering driving up to TC and giving @Landgreen a hand...he told me his retainer fee is keeping my flask full.


I think TC is beyond the 50 mile radius you are allowed to venture without supervision....


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I think TC is beyond the 50 mile radius you are allowed to venture without supervision....


I cut the tether oof...


----------



## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

IceMonster said:


> Hello!
> 
> I came across the forum when looking into buying bulk salt (found this thread: https://www.plowsite.com/threads/salt-prices-2017.170947/). This forum seems like a great source of information!
> 
> ...


Just an observation if you are looking for 8000 tons you clearly know where to find it!! Sorry I can't believe with that volume more than most towns your trolling


----------



## absolutely (Dec 9, 2010)

fireside said:


> Just an observation if you are looking for 8000 tons you clearly know where to find it!! Sorry I can't believe with that volume more than most towns your trolling


I have to agree. Spending several hundred thousand on salt and doesn't know how to buy it?


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)




----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

well, let's not all pile on, let's wait and see what the OP has to say...thanks


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

IceMonster said:


> Hello!
> 
> I came across the forum when looking into buying bulk salt (found this thread: https://www.plowsite.com/threads/salt-prices-2017.170947/). This forum seems like a great source of information!
> 
> ...


Did you try Lowe's...?


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Oops I'll get off the pile now...


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I still haven't heard the end of someone's whining aboot Egyptian salt...and that was 3 or 4 seasons ago. @Defcon 5





Defcon 5 said:


> Why at every turn do you attempt to throw me under the bus....I don't recall saying anything of the sort





Mark Oomkes said:


> I'm not throwing you under the bus...I was stating a fact.
> 
> I can probably find the texts.





Defcon 5 said:


> The only whining that was heard that winter was from you proclaiming that you hate lake effect and it can stop now





Mark Oomkes said:


> I love lake effect.
> 
> I wish it would start now...got a new toy to play with.
> 
> I'm considering driving up to TC and giving @Landgreen a hand...he told me his retainer fee is keeping my flask full.





Defcon 5 said:


> I think TC is beyond the 50 mile radius you are allowed to venture without supervision....


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


>


File .gif


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

I will be Apollo creed....


----------



## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

BossPlow2010 said:


> That Egyptian salt was ******* garbage, if Todd said it was crap, It was an understatement!
> 
> Where in the northeast are you?
> 
> Better have a place to put it because around here the water freezes and freighters don't do well in ice.


that sounds like barge salt , all clumpy and a pain....this stuff spread nice and was also available treated, 
sorry mjd...


----------



## snowman55 (Nov 20, 2007)

Maybe he meant 8000 lbs?


----------



## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I bet the next post is this great deal on salt from port so and so.


----------



## IceMonster (Apr 12, 2018)

This seems to be an awfully aggressive forum 

In terms of volume, it may well exceed 8,000 tons - that is a conservative estimate.

Why don't I know this? Well, as fun as it seems, it is not my primary job to source salt for our operations. The easiest way to describe it is that I work at headquarters and not the daily activities of the snow company. 

The salt is currently being bought by each division individually from their local suppliers. These divisions are located in various NE states, so we aren't all in one place. But I am starting to investigate the potential of consolidating all their orders (which gets us to ~8,000 tons based on a quick estimate) and reducing the cost.

Sorry for causing such a stir  Thanks for all the info. Is there a thread somewhere discussing the challenge with Egyptian salt?


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

IceMonster said:


> This seems to be an awfully aggressive forum
> 
> In terms of volume, it may well exceed 8,000 tons - that is a conservative estimate.
> 
> ...


The NE is a big place, If you could supply a little more info you may get some better responses. State, regions whatever.


----------



## IceMonster (Apr 12, 2018)

Hello! I'm mostly in MA, ME, RI, VT.


----------



## the Suburbanite (Jan 27, 2018)

IceMonster said:


> But I am starting to investigate


Hmmm. How many Walter loads is 8000 tons?


----------



## IceMonster (Apr 12, 2018)

the Suburbanite said:


> Hmmm. How many Walter loads is 8000 tons?


Not quite sure what you are asking  Currently we do not take shipment of all 8,000 tons of salt at once - it comes in shipments of ~500 tons or so. But I do not know the size of the shipments, since I haven't been involved previously. I'm trying to learn this stuff


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

IceMonster said:


> Not quite sure what you are asking  Currently we do not take shipment of all 8,000 tons of salt at once - it comes in shipments of ~500 tons or so. But I do not know the size of the shipments, since I haven't been involved previously. I'm trying to learn this stuff


Did you recently buy the business


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

You guys are going to get in trouble...


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

IceMonster said:


> Not quite sure what you are asking  Currently we do not take shipment of all 8,000 tons of salt at once - it comes in shipments of ~500 tons or so. But I do not know the size of the shipments, since I haven't been involved previously. I'm trying to learn this stuff


You do recall your first post right?



IceMonster said:


> I am looking around at pricing (domestic, abroad) and trying to determine if there is a cheaper source. Any favorite suppliers here? I probably buy ~8,000 tons a season.
> 
> I am based in the Northeast US.


The employees currently procuring your salt should be the best resource for you. Sounds as though your organization already has relationships with sellers that you can learn from.


----------



## IceMonster (Apr 12, 2018)

Yes, our employees are very helpful! But they also tend to stick with what is familiar, even if pricing is not as competitive as it could be otherwise. This forum is a good second opinion 

And no, we've been involved with this business for several years. Salt procurement has been on the list of things to deal with - just not high on the list. 

And yes I recall my first post. I have no idea where Walter loads is found in my first post


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Multiple sources might work best. What's more important is that you have a solid relationship with them...not who's the cheapest. Saving $2 a ton might add up to $16,000...but it doesn't mean squat when the next salt shortage hits again and your low cost broker/supplier can't get you what you need when you need it the most.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> You guys are going to get in trouble...


Do you have anything helpful to add other than pointing out what you believe should be deleted?

You're a big shooter, do you have any suggestions for the OP?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Luther said:


> Multiple sources might work best. What's more important is that you have a solid relationship with them...not who's the cheapest. Saving $2 a ton might add up to $16,000...but it doesn't mean squat when the next salt shortage hits again and your low cost broker/supplier can't get you what you need when you need it the most.


OP...this is some helpful advice from a man in the know.


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

Mark Oomkes said:


> OP...this is some helpful advice from a man in the know.


agreed...and if others aren't interested in offering such advice, no need to make jokes or take shots at the OP


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Luther said:


> Multiple sources might work best. What's more important is that you have a solid relationship with them...not who's the cheapest. Saving $2 a ton might add up to $16,000...but it doesn't mean squat when the next salt shortage hits again and your low cost broker/supplier can't get you what you need when you need it the most.


That is good advice, dont put all your eggs in one basket. Plus you might eat up your savings in trucking or distribution cost.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Do you have anything helpful to add other than pointing out what you believe should be deleted?
> 
> You're a big shooter, do you have any suggestions for the OP?


Buy straight from the mine(s). Especially on that tonnage.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Buy straight from the mine(s). Especially on that tonnage.


I already said that...

Post #2


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I already said that...
> 
> Post #2


Congratulations.

You asked a question. I answered it.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Congratulations.
> 
> You asked a question. I answered it.


You only answered one question


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

as always, stay on course, no need to make it about the two of you


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Luther said:


> Multiple sources might work best. What's more important is that you have a solid relationship with them...not who's the cheapest. Saving $2 a ton might add up to $16,000...but it doesn't mean squat when the next salt shortage hits again and your low cost broker/supplier can't get you what you need when you need it the most.


To get back on track here...

This is solid advise...

Need to llok at the bigger picture overall.


----------



## IceMonster (Apr 12, 2018)

Thanks! We would definitely would not do it for $2 a ton - however, it does appear that buying in bulk from mines could save a significant percentage (some are more than 50% cheaper). But salt is bulky and expensive to ship, so I am still calculating what the various shipping costs would be. Does anyone here buy from the mines directly or do most of you guys use your local suppliers? One of the larger divisions found a cheaper source domestically last winter (I think in NY), but the logistics ultimately deterred them.

The relationships also seem to be important. Also since I've never laid salt myself, it seemed to be mostly a commodity to me. You guys talking about the Egyptian salt has given me more stuff to investigate


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Couple things now that I have a keyboard.

1) Buying direct has advantages. There are price breaks based on the amount you purchase. The more you purchase, the better than per ton pricing. In my experience, they generally will set up trucking. Although in my area the trucking company happens to own the docks the salt is stored on.

2) Check with the suppliers you currently use. There might be price breaks from them as well. Maybe not. Don't throw away relationships that have already been developed if you can help it.

3) Egyptian salt apparently is hit or miss. The stuff I was referring to was very fine and wet according to the users. It was also a cold year so it was pretty worthless.

You don't want large chunks, but you don't want fines either. The drier the better.

I buy from 3 vendors and don't use nearly as much as you. Or others claim to.

I pay a bit more from one supplier because it comes out of the mine, into a truck directly to a warehouse where it stays until I take delivery. Having dry salt is worth more to me.

I buy direct from one mine which is delivered by a ship to a port an hour away, then trucked to me. That pile is tarped pretty well but still gets moisture and can be chunky. This the least expensive salt.

I buy through a broker that buys from the same mine. I pay more to him as well, but I have worked with him for over 20 years and he has never let me down, no matter how short salt supply is.

Also, remember that salt sitting in a pile that is owned by a mine or broker is subject to eminent domain. Any of the states can seize it at any time, and it happens. And the contracts from the mines allow it without any penalty. You can have 5,000 tons of your allotment left, and if the state(s) decide they need it, you're SOL.

Just me, but unless you're buying your own ship load or barge, I would try to spread my purchases out over at least 2 different mines. It is a commodity and they do tend to play the supply and demand game. One year one mine is short on supply, the next year the other one is, etc.

Then again, what do I know...I haven't grown my business exponentially in just 4 years...so much it's hard to believe.


----------



## IceMonster (Apr 12, 2018)

Thanks Mark for the detailed reply! Not sure if the 4 year growth is directed at me or someone else, but you seem knowledgeable to me 

If you ever have questions on financial modeling or spreadsheets I owe you one! Doubt I'll ever be able to contribute much on the actual business stuff like you guys, but I'm very good at that nerdy stuff!

And I'm not opposed to buying a barge! Rumors about barge loads of salt is what prompted this investigation initially ha ha


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Barges only hold around 1,800 ton. Vessels around 23-25,000 tons. Ships get larger from there. 

For your needs going in on a vessel with another buyer could work for you. It's an extreme adventure bringing one in though. Hook up with someone experienced in doing this. Lot's of logistics, hoops, dock space, etc. and up-front $$$ to negotiate and navigate through.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Interesting...I was told a barge was 15,000 tons and a vessel was 50,000.

OP, the 4 year comment was not directed at you.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Interesting...I was told a barge was 15,000 tons and a vessel was 50,000.
> 
> OP, the 4 year comment was not directed at you.


You were told wrong.....


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> You were told wrong.....


I don't recall axing ewe...


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't recall axing ewe...


You should have before spouting misinformation


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> You should have before spouting misinformation


K


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I don't recall axing ewe...





Defcon 5 said:


> You should have before spouting misinformation


move on please


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Michael J. Donovan said:


> move on please


Agreed


----------



## the Suburbanite (Jan 27, 2018)

Interesting read on large scale salt buying. Surprising to see that Boston keeps only 80K ton of salt on hand (double what they estimate they need (40K ton)), per year.

In any event, the article touches on sources, storage, and transport, too. By the math, if you need 8K ton, roughly 1/5th of the amount Boston needs annually, you must have a HUGE territory to maintain.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2015/01/16/road-salt-where-does-it-come-from-where-does-it-go


----------



## IceMonster (Apr 12, 2018)

the Suburbanite said:


> Interesting read on large scale salt buying. Surprising to see that Boston keeps only 80K ton of salt on hand (double what they estimate they need (40K ton)), per year.
> 
> In any event, the article touches on sources, storage, and transport, too. By the math, if you need 8K ton, roughly 1/5th of the amount Boston needs annually, you must have a HUGE territory to maintain.
> 
> https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2015/01/16/road-salt-where-does-it-come-from-where-does-it-go


Yes, we do a lot of work  Thanks for the article!


----------



## The Natural Landscape (Sep 27, 2011)

Hi we could easily supply you with 8000 tons to RI MA ME VT. And yes our salt is Egyptian mined salt (not solar) which we believe is among the highest quality. Please call Brian @ 774-244-1062.


----------



## IceMonster (Apr 12, 2018)

The Natural Landscape said:


> Hi we could easily supply you with 8000 tons to RI MA ME VT. And yes our salt is Egyptian mined salt (not solar) which we believe is among the highest quality. Please call Brian @ 774-244-1062.


I will look at your website and reach out. Thanks!


----------

