# 3 year old e-58 problems



## Ribslandmgmt (Feb 17, 2015)

I have a 8ft stainless steal lot pro with wings on it. 
When cold out, it would barely move. So I changed fluid with low temp fluid (twice). Still functions extremely slow. Plow also moves back and forth on its own (truck swing) without angling it left or right. 

Advice? Thanks


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Did you drain rams when you changed fluid? Is raise slow also or just angle? What do the filters look like? Do a pressure test? Connections clean? Blade moving back and forth would point to crossover being shot but that will not effect up. If it is icing you could have ice in the crossover letting the blade move around.


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## chevy2500meyer (Jan 30, 2011)

i had my fluid changed at the beginning of the year and i cleaned the rams as well. The day it was -32 with the wind chill it would barely move whether it was up or down or left or right. So now i think i may have a bent ram cause it creaks when it goes left or right. And i think the Meyer is only good for -10 maybe. So i think it was just so cold that whatever moisture was in it just froze cause mine came out the breather.


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## Ribslandmgmt (Feb 17, 2015)

kimber750;1960825 said:


> Did you drain rams when you changed fluid? Is raise slow also or just angle? What do the filters look like? Do a pressure test? Connections clean? Blade moving back and forth would point to crossover being shot but that will not effect up. If it is icing you could have ice in the crossover letting the blade move around.


 how do I do a pressure test along with cleaning the Rams?


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Ribslandmgmt;1961603 said:


> how do I do a pressure test along with cleaning the Rams?


Need a T fitting to go inline of the right angle ram and gauge capable of at least 3000psi. To drain the rams jack the plow up, disconnect angle hoses and push the blade to push the fluid out of the rams. Have a friend you don't like very much hold the hoses for you. Thumbs Up Do this until no more fluid comes out.


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## Ribslandmgmt (Feb 17, 2015)

kimber750;1961607 said:


> Need a T fitting to go inline of the right angle ram and gauge capable of at least 3000psi. To drain the rams jack the plow up, disconnect angle hoses and push the blade to push the fluid out of the rams. Have a friend you don't like very much hold the hoses for you. Thumbs Up Do this until no more fluid comes out.


 Ok awesome that helps a lot. I have a couple other questions...

How much fluid should be in the pumps?
Is there anywhere else excess fluid should come out of other than the drain hole?
When I'm done putting the new fluid in, How should I go about letting all the air out?


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Ribslandmgmt;1961844 said:


> Ok awesome that helps a lot. I have a couple other questions...
> 
> How much fluid should be in the pumps?
> Is there anywhere else excess fluid should come out of other than the drain hole?
> When I'm done putting the new fluid in, How should I go about letting all the air out?


Some where around 2 quarts should refill it when draining the rams. Would get 3 quarts to be safe. Fill to within 1-1 1/2" of the fill hole. No where for excess fluid to go except out the vent plug. To get air out operate the plow. Lift plow just high enough that you can angle it. Let the pump run against relief at the end of each direction for a second, this helps mix the air into the fluid. Put lift ram all the way down and check fluid level. Be careful since they can build pressure when bleeding air off and give you a bath. Repeat process until you get all the air out.


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## Ribslandmgmt (Feb 17, 2015)

kimber750;1961849 said:


> Some where around 2 quarts should refill it when draining the rams. Would get 3 quarts to be safe. Fill to within 1-1 1/2" of the fill hole. No where for excess fluid to go except out the vent plug. To get air out operate the plow. Lift plow just high enough that you can angle it. Let the pump run against relief at the end of each direction for a second, this helps mix the air into the fluid. Put lift ram all the way down and check fluid level. Be careful since they can build pressure when bleeding air off and give you a bath. Repeat process until you get all the air out.


 ok so an update. I got through the whole process. Plow runs much smoother and is also faster. I didn't use 2 quarts though. I only really used a little over 1qt. It was -20 out today in northeast Ohio and I moved the plow this morning and it was "better". It definitely warmed up faster.

I bled out Rams completely along with the pump as much as possible. I'll have to get a pressure test soon. But overall it's defnetly better but why didnt it take 2 quarts like you said?

Edit: it still swings back and forth on its own..


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Ribslandmgmt;1964128 said:


> ok so an update. I got through the whole process. Plow runs much smoother and is also faster. I didn't use 2 quarts though. I only really used a little over 1qt. It was -20 out today in northeast Ohio and I moved the plow this morning and it was "better". It definitely warmed up faster.
> 
> I bled out Rams completely along with the pump as much as possible. I'll have to get a pressure test soon. But overall it's defnetly better but why didnt it take 2 quarts like you said?
> 
> Edit: it still swings back and forth on its own..


Is it angling? Could still have a bad crossover if you are sure you got all the air bleed out.


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## Ribslandmgmt (Feb 17, 2015)

kimber750;1964280 said:


> Is it angling? Could still have a bad crossover if you are sure you got all the air bleed out.


 yes it's Angling pretty well considering how cold it is. How do I fix the crossover?


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Ribslandmgmt;1964505 said:


> yes it's Angling pretty well considering how cold it is. How do I fix the crossover?


Rebuild it. There some pretty good vids on youtube showing how or you can buy one of the one-piece crossovers.


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## Ribslandmgmt (Feb 17, 2015)

Ribslandmgmt;1964505 said:


> yes it's Angling pretty well considering how cold it is. How do I fix the crossover?


 what's the crossover valve assembly. I have 2 e-58s and wondering if that would be an investment?


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## Fourtrax250R (Dec 4, 2007)

Ribs..... your E-58H has a 1 piece non adj. cross over cartridge located under the valve block. Being that your E-58h is only 3 years old you shouldn't be having these issues. I also doubt your cross over cartridge is failing, you most likely still have air in the system. If you properly drained the entire system you should have used Close to 2 quarts of M1 hydraulic fluid. I personally haven't seen a 1 piece cross over cartridge fail yet... which have come standard on E58H 's since their introduction in 2006/2007. Try bleeding the system again, make sure you completely drain the hydraulic unit, hoses, and rams.


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## Ribslandmgmt (Feb 17, 2015)

Fourtrax250R;1964625 said:


> Ribs..... your E-58H has a 1 piece non adj. cross over cartridge located under the valve block. Being that your E-58h is only 3 years old you shouldn't be having these issues. I also doubt your cross over cartridge is failing, you most likely still have air in the system. If you properly drained the entire system you should have used Close to 2 quarts of M1 hydraulic fluid. I personally haven't seen a 1 piece cross over cartridge fail yet... which have come standard on E58H 's since their introduction in 2006/2007. Try bleeding the system again, make sure you completely drain the hydraulic unit, hoses, and rams.


Update- I just went to take my plow off and I go to un plug it and I see brand new hydrolic fluid dripping from the bottom of the pump. Does that mean there's still air in it? I Swear I thought I got it all out...what gives?


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## racer47 (Feb 24, 2011)

im in southern ohio .bring it by the shop and I can look at it and check presser for you at no charge , i have mosts parts it stock to fix it . 1 peice cross over ,seal kit ,no new gear pump. but I don't see it being that ,being only 3 years old .Chillicothe ohio 45601 .top seal leaking ,water in system ...


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## mwalsh9152 (Dec 30, 2008)

Im unfamiliar with the E58, does it have the check ball and spring behind the drain plug like the E60? Its far too easy to not see it come out with the stream of fluid when you pull the plug. I fought with a problem where my plow wouldnt hold angle like the OP when I first got it. Turned out that the previous owner didnt know about the check ball either. 

Another thing, you need to get the angle rams pointed downhill to bleed all the air out of them. You want the fittings well above the end with the ram if possible. A steep hill can do this, as can a driveway with a steeper transition to the road. I can usually put my truck on my driveway and drop the blade down onto the street and angle back and forth to clear the air out.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Ribslandmgmt;1966524 said:


> Update- I just went to take my plow off and I go to un plug it and I see brand new hydrolic fluid dripping from the bottom of the pump. Does that mean there's still air in it? I Swear I thought I got it all out...what gives?


The procedure you were given to clean out ice/water is good, but never 100% effective. It also doesn't address where the water entered from. I suggest adding some automotive gas line antifreeze (methyl alcohol) into the pump's reservoir.


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## Ribslandmgmt (Feb 17, 2015)

jasonv;1967058 said:


> The procedure you were given to clean out ice/water is good, but never 100% effective. It also doesn't address where the water entered from. I suggest adding some automotive gas line antifreeze (methyl alcohol) into the pump's reservoir.


Ok, but why is it leaking fluid? Is it becaue of the uneeded air inside the pump? Should I take the plow off and change the fluid so I can tip the plow and just so I can move it around more so I can get as much oht


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Ribslandmgmt;1967182 said:


> Ok, but why is it leaking fluid? Is it becaue of the uneeded air inside the pump? Should I take the plow off and change the fluid like so I can tip the plow and just so I can move it around more so I can get as much oht


The pump draws fluid from the bottom of the reservoir where there is only air if the level drops all the way to the bottom. If you have an inlet screen that is being plugged by ice, then it will be creating a vacuum to the pump, which could be causing it to draw in AIR. Mixing air in with the hydraulic fluid can cause it to froth and EXPAND, overflowing the vent.

The hydraulic system is FULLY 100% SELF BLEEDING. You do not need to worry about getting air out of the system. You only need to worry about removing WATER from the system, or at least preventing the water from causing you any harm.

I understand where you are coming from with the idea of turning everything upside down. It is probably a bit excessive, and won't be as effective as you are hoping. The best way to work water out of these things is to change the fluid in them in the fall. Gas line antifreeze should hopefully get you through the rest of the season (unless there is an actual intake air leak). When it is fall, add a LOT of gas line antifreeze, and work the thing back and forth, up and down MANY times to pick up all the water, then drain everything IMMEDIATELY, remove the top cap and reservoir from the pump, pull out the lift cylinder, and scoop EVERYTHING out of the bottom of the pump, then reassemble and refill.


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## Ribslandmgmt (Feb 17, 2015)

jasonv;1967194 said:


> The pump draws fluid from the bottom of the reservoir where there is only air if the level drops all the way to the bottom. If you have an inlet screen that is being plugged by ice, then it will be creating a vacuum to the pump, which could be causing it to draw in AIR. Mixing air in with the hydraulic fluid can cause it to froth and EXPAND, overflowing the vent.
> 
> The hydraulic system is FULLY 100% SELF BLEEDING. You do not need to worry about getting air out of the system. You only need to worry about removing WATER from the system, or at least preventing the water from causing you any harm.
> 
> I understand where you are coming from with the idea of turning everything upside down. It is probably a bit excessive, and won't be as effective as you are hoping. The best way to work water out of these things is to change the fluid in them in the fall. Gas line antifreeze should hopefully get you through the rest of the season (unless there is an actual intake air leak). When it is fall, add a LOT of gas line antifreeze, and work the thing back and forth, up and down MANY times to pick up all the water, then drain everything IMMEDIATELY, remove the top cap and reservoir from the pump, pull out the lift cylinder, and scoop EVERYTHING out of the bottom of the pump, then reassemble and refill.


Ok this helps a lot. Thanks man. I'm gunna pull it in my shop, let it heat up, then do this. I need this plow asap and ready to roll. Lol


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## racer47 (Feb 24, 2011)

pm me your number, i can call you and walk you through it ........


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## racer47 (Feb 24, 2011)

if you are going to take top cap off to clean out pump you will need basic seal kit .you might want to download a manual also so you can get it back together right ..that pump should put out 2000 psi .anything under 1600 will be slow running ..


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Ribslandmgmt;1967217 said:


> Ok this helps a lot. Thanks man. I'm gunna pull it in my shop, let it heat up, then do this. I need this plow asap and ready to roll. Lol


You don't need to do the flush right now. Just add some gas line antifreeze to handle the ice that is already in it. Dont even need to warm it up, just pour it in and it should almost instantly start working properly. Its already near end of season, so no sense in going all out. Do the easiest thing possible just to get through the next month.

When fall comes, THEN add more gas line antifreeze and flush it all out. If you store your plow pump in a DRY place, then you can do the flush in the spring, otherwise I suggest waiting until fall because meyer pumps do leak water in any time they get rained on.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

racer47;1967770 said:


> if you are going to take top cap off to clean out pump you will need basic seal kit .you might want to download a manual also so you can get it back together right ..that pump should put out 2000 psi .anything under 1600 will be slow running ..


I've never found it necessary or useful to replace seals when taking apart the reservoir. Its just a couple of big o-rings, as long as they are clean and lubricated, they should seal fine when going back together.

If he does have a leak going on between the pump and the reservoir base, then it could be useful to remove the pump, clean the mating surface, and replace the seals there.

The only seal I've ever had to replace on a Meyer pump is the main lift cylinder seal on the top cap. I've got two meyer e47 pumps I've kept working for 25 years. No leaks and no weaknesses (except for the worn out lift cylinder packing on one of them, probably time to replace it this year).


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

You have to replace the nytite seals if removing the top cap. These are not reusable. But I am with Racer, if you open it up it only makes sense to replace those o rings and the packing cup.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

kimber750;1968045 said:


> You have to replace the nytite seals if removing the top cap. These are not reusable. But I am with Racer, if you open it up it only makes sense to replace those o rings and the packing cup.


It isn't worth replacing ANYTHING if it isn't leaking.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jasonv;1968049 said:


> It isn't worth replacing ANYTHING if it isn't leaking.


If you open it up it is worth it. Can easily tear an o ring taking it apart. Fresh packing cup will make a huge difference. Lift tube o rings are known to fail. Also o rings can get deformed and may not reseal after being re installed. Wiper seals are a common cause of water intrusion, which is a problem OP is having. But no lets keep throwing a band aid on it instead of fixing it correctly.

If you are to cheap to spend $30 on maintaining your equipment you shouldn't be in this business. So if you want to risk being down during a storm because you are a cheap @ss fine but don't recommend it to other users and keep your birddseedd style maintenance techniques to yourself. Thumbs Up


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

kimber750;1968061 said:


> If you open it up it is worth it. Can easily tear an o ring taking it apart. Fresh packing cup will make a huge difference. Lift tube o rings are known to fail. Also o rings can get deformed and may not reseal after being re installed. Wiper seals are a common cause of water intrusion, which is a problem OP is having. But no lets keep throwing a band aid on it instead of fixing it correctly.
> 
> If you are to cheap to spend $30 on maintaining your equipment you shouldn't be in this business. So if you want to risk being down during a storm because you are a cheap @ss fine but don't recommend it to other users and keep your birddseedd style maintenance techniques to yourself. Thumbs Up


If you're in this as a *business*, which not everybody here is, then you should be mindful that every cent you WASTE on unnecessarily replacing parts that are perfectly good, is lost income.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Oh, the blade is off the truck. While we're at it, we might as well replace the whole thing.
Oh, the wheels are off the truck to be rotated. While we're at it, we might as well replace all the tires even though they only have 10,000 km on them.

Those two statements, absurd as they are, are equivalent to what you are suggesting.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jasonv;1968081 said:


> If you're in this as a *business*, which not everybody here is, then you should be mindful that every cent you WASTE on unnecessarily replacing parts that are perfectly good, is lost income.


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

If $30 for insurance that your pump keep working during a storm is bad for business you are a terrible business man. Compare that to the lost income of your plow being down during a storm. Guess we should stop changing plow fluid until we know it is bad.

Gotta ask, did they have auditions to replace the birdman or did you just take it upon yourself to fill his shoes?


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

kimber750;1968092 said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> If $30 for insurance that your pump keep working during a storm is bad for business you are a terrible business man. Compare that to the lost income of your plow being down during a storm. Guess we should stop changing plow fluid until we know it is bad.
> 
> Gotta ask, did they have auditions to replace the birdman or did you just take it upon yourself to fill his shoes?


Insurance? No. Hate to break it to you, but changing the seals is no guarantee of anything.

I suggest you stop now, you're just proving that you are bad at business. Guess that's why you're plowing snow instead of telling kids what snow to plow.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jasonv;1968099 said:


> Insurance? No. Hate to break it to you, but changing the seals is no guarantee of anything.
> 
> I suggest you stop now, you're just proving that you are bad at business. Guess that's why you're plowing snow instead of telling kids what snow to plow.


I am not the one that is gonna go out of business after spending $30. I didn't say it guarantees nothing will happen, I said it is good insurance. A well maintained piece off equipment is less likely to fail compared to one that no one takes care of or half @sses back together. Guessing you reuse condoms since it worked the last time. :laughing: So suggest anything you want, I will call you out on it every time. Not replacing seals and wear items while the pump is already apart is stupid.

In the great words of Nasty Z, you sir are a hack.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

kimber750;1968111 said:


> I am not the one that is gonna go out of business after spending $30. I didn't say it guarantees nothing will happen, I said it is good insurance. A well maintained piece off equipment is less likely to fail compared to one that no one takes care of or half @sses back together. Guessing you reuse condoms since it worked the last time. :laughing: So suggest anything you want, I will call you out on it every time. Not replacing seals and wear items while the pump is already apart is stupid.
> 
> In the great words of Nasty Z, you sir are a hack.


O-rings are not wear items.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jasonv;1968114 said:


> O-rings are not wear items.


Packing cups are. Wiper seals are.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

kimber750;1968116 said:


> Packing cups are. Wiper seals are.


And it is OBVIOUS when those need to be replaced, and takes only a couple of minutes.... every 20 years or so.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jasonv;1968121 said:


> And it is OBVIOUS when those need to be replaced, and takes only a couple of minutes.


So lets tear it apart twice? Lets have that time that it is obvious be during a storm? I don't wait until my brakes fail before I replace them. Couple of minutes to tear your pump apart out in the field? Assuming you already have the parts, but again if you have the parts why not put them in? But then you don't have about breaking down because your business would of went under because you spent $30 on those parts you didn't need that very second. Yep still doesn't make any sense.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

kimber750;1968128 said:


> So lets tear it apart twice? Lets have that time that it is obvious be during a storm? I don't wait until my brakes fail before I replace them. Couple of minutes to tear your pump apart out in the field? Assuming you already have the parts, but again if you have the parts why not put them in? But then you don't have about breaking down because your business would of went under because you spent $30 on those parts you didn't need that very second. Yep still doesn't make any sense.


Oh my god, just stop, it is already quite obvious that you don't have a brain.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jasonv;1968130 said:


> Oh my god, just stop, it is already quite obvious that you don't have a brain.


Just trying to see your logic in tearing a pump apart twice. Pray to god all you want I am not going away. You telling a member here not to replace known problem parts while the pump is already apart is stupid. You claimed $30 in parts is gonna bring a business under yet somehow you will magically have these parts when needed out in the field. Is this how you rebuild these pumps? Just tear them apart and put back together with all the old parts? That is not business, that is scamming people. By the sound of it you reuse the nytite washers also, which is a huge no no. Or maybe you think putting rtv sealant on there is a good idea too.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

kimber750;1968111 said:


> I am not the one that is gonna go out of business after spending $30. I didn't say it guarantees nothing will happen, I said it is good insurance. A well maintained piece off equipment is less likely to fail compared to one that no one takes care of or half @sses back together. *Guessing you reuse condoms since it worked the last time. *:laughing: So suggest anything you want, I will call you out on it every time. Not replacing seals and wear items while the pump is already apart is stupid.
> 
> In the great words of Nasty Z, you sir are a hack.


:laughing:

Kimber, there's nothing good that will come out of arguing with a child like jasonv. He is just here to troll, and I'm guessing he rarely get's out of his parent's basement.........


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

jomama45;1968144 said:


> :laughing:
> 
> Kimber, there's nothing good that will come out of arguing with a child like jasonv. He is just here to troll, and I'm guessing he rarely get's out of his parent's basement.........


Not so much arguing with him as I am trying to make sure OP realizes how bad his advice is.


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## racer47 (Feb 24, 2011)

kimber750 has always giver great advise ..............I work on a lot of guys stuff .I would never every take a pump apart and clean and putt back with old seals........I have never seen a meyer pump clean on inside ...not ever my own .I sure would not use old seals on my pump or any pump ............got to get some beer and popcorn and set this one out ,better thing to do ...


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

racer47;1968380 said:


> kimber750 has always giver great advise ..............I work on a lot of guys stuff .I would never every take a pump apart and clean and putt back with old seals........I have never seen a meyer pump clean on inside ...not ever my own .I sure would not use old seals on my pump or any pump ............got to get some beer and popcorn and set this one out ,better thing to do ...


Thank you Racer, I appreciate that. Thumbs Up


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## mwalsh9152 (Dec 30, 2008)

rofl WTF? The only way I would ever tear down my pump and not replace the O rings is if it were in the middle of a storm, and I didnt have them. Its not like hes suggesting that he should replace all the valves just in case


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