# 16 year old need help!!!!



## MakkTruck

I just turned 16 1/2 and Im looking to really do snow this season. I have lined up some residential accounts and am working on a commercial property. Last year my brother(14) and i bought a garden tractor with a plow and then after we made up that money bought an ATV with a plow. Since were buying a truck (f350 7.3) we are planning on selling the ATV and buying a Blizzard Snowplow. We mainly need a plow for speed and being able to back drag being able to plow before school/salt. . we also have saved up enough to buy one so we think it might be a good move. My question is how to properly charge for plowing by the square feet or what you usually charge for a residential drive way. An idea of a size drive we would do is we have measure its dimensions are 138 feet long by 9.5 feet wide. Im wondering what to charge for it if i do it by the square foot. thank you and happy holidays, Davis and Hunter.


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## Camden

Hi Davis - I always admire young people who want to work. It's a good trait to possess and it'll get you far in life. The other thing that'll get you far in life is doing things the right way. You wrote about your equipment and the accounts you've secured but tell me about the other side of your business. Do you have any sort of insurance in place that protects you, your mom/dad and your clients in case of an accident?


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## MakkTruck

Camden;1906740 said:


> Hi Davis - I always admire young people who want to work. It's a good trait to possess and it'll get you far in life. The other thing that'll get you far in life is doing things the right way. You wrote about your equipment and the accounts you've secured but tell me about the other side of your business. Do you have any sort of insurance in place that protects you, your mom/dad and your clients in case of an accident?


As of right now no I do not have any insurance. My brother and i also have mowed grass for the past five years and have been thinking about getting insurance for plowing/mowing/ and are truck. I know am going to use usaa and ill be paying it so would it be a good idea to be insured for plowing?


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## dieselss

You NEED to get insurance, and at your ages that's not gunna happen. Sorry to be the buzz kill but it's just a fact


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## Camden

MakkTruck;1906748 said:


> As of right now no I do not have any insurance. My brother and i also have mowed grass for the past five years and have been thinking about getting insurance for plowing/mowing/ and are truck. I know am going to use usaa and ill be paying it *so would it be a good idea to be insured* *for plowing?*


Yes, it would be a great idea. I doubt that you'll be able to obtain a policy on your own since you're a minor but perhaps you could have your parents get something lined up and add you to it? I really don't know how that works. I plowed with my dad when I was your age so I know you can be covered somehow.


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## ReddensLawnCare

Usaa doesn't offer any kind of commercial insurance


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## MakkTruck

ReddensLawnCare;1907074 said:


> Usaa doesn't offer any kind of commercial insurance


Who has the best plan then for snow plowing. Is there anyway your can combine all seasons into one plan? Also is charging by the sqaute foot the best way to go with salting and plowing? Thanks Davis

Also what blizzard plow would anyone recommend?


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## MakkTruck

MakkTruck;1907094 said:


> Who has the best plan then for snow plowing. Is there anyway your can combine all seasons into one plan? Also is charging by the sqaute foot the best way to go with salting and plowing? Thanks Davis
> 
> Also what blizzard plow would anyone recommend and also snow ex salter?


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## CowboysLC_DE

I'm 22, but I have to be an even bigger buzzkill. The insurance is going to cost about as much as your spending on that Ford. You just have to get your parents to go to an insurance company that uses several different carriers. I have no clue what they are going to charge you guys.

Michael


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## MakkTruck

so then just stick with the ATV or not plow at all? Since I can't get insurance do I really have to have or could I plow without it and just stick with residential until im insured


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## CowboysLC_DE

Yes, definitely in my opinion. I just saw that you live in Kentucky which will make it even harder for you to get work, but maybe your in the mountains and get snow.

Michael


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## muffy189

I stared plowing at 16 and didn't have commercial insurance but had a rider on for the plow, I tried to put my 16 year old on my policy and the insurance wouldn't let it happen. Welcome to plowing...


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## dieselss

Welcome to underage. Stay in school.


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## CashinH&P

I highly doubt you will be able to get insurance at 16. I started my company at 18 and could barley get insurance. No one else has mentioned this, but for this commercial account your working on, if they have half a brain they won't hire you. A 16 year old plowing with no Insurance is a lawsuit waiting to happen for them. Not to mention if they were to hire you and something happen there not coming after you, they will be going after your parents. Stick to shoveling and snowblowing driveways (which you really should have insurance for as well) Im not trying to be a buzzkill either but I had the same advice at 16, which is why I waited to start until I was 18.


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## Snow tracker

You sound like a hard working young guy. Hard to find these days. :salute: I started plowing neighbors drive ways when I was 14 with a four wheeler now I'm in my 40's and still plowing. I love it every time it snows. 

Don't let these guys piss on your dreams. If your dream is to start a business don't give up but remember the world today is sue happy. You don't want to loose that new truck cus of a lawsuit. Figure out a way to insure it. As said earlier maybe your parents could get a policy with you as a driver. Send me a pm if you want. I'll help you out


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## MakkTruck

Snow tracker;1907283 said:


> You sound like a hard working young guy. Hard to find these days. :salute: I started plowing neighbors drive ways when I was 14 with a four wheeler now I'm in my 40's and still plowing. I love it every time it snows.
> 
> Don't let these guys piss on your dreams. If your dream is to start a business don't give up but remember the world today is sue happy. You don't want to loose that new truck cus of a lawsuit. Figure out a way to insure it. As said earlier maybe your parents could get a policy with you as a driver. Send me a pm if you want. I'll help you out


thanks for all the responses and was wondering how to pm it says i do not have permission. Also am wondering about what to charge exactly. how to charge salting and plowing last year we just eyeballed it and did pretty ell but thinking there has got to be a better way.


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## rjigto4oje

MakkTruck;1907325 said:


> thanks for all the responses and was wondering how to pm it says i do not have permission. Also am wondering about what to charge exactly. how to charge salting and plowing last year we just eyeballed it and did pretty ell but thinking there has got to be a better way.


you will be able to p.m after 25 or 30 posts not sure why this is


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## MakkTruck

rjigto4oje;1907329 said:


> you will be able to p.m after 25 or 30 posts not sure why this is


alright thanks


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## PLandscaping

1) stick to your current set up. Snow PLOWING is where your insurance rates skyrocket. I do only blowers and I pay a fraction of what other guys in my area pay. 

2) adding insurance to your plow is not insurance. You need contractor's general liability insurance. 

3) do not do this commercial account. If they give it to you, they're nuts anyway. Doing your mowing customers driveways with an atv is easy, you need to keep that lot clear, and you can't do that sitting in math class. You can't get the insurance you definitely need.

4) unless you're doing huge lots salters are a waste of money and more of a hassle than they're worth. They will toast your rear end, you have to go outside to load them anyway, and they're expensive. Get yourself a nice earthway salt spreader and save yourself 800 bucks minimum.


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## MakkTruck

PLandscaping;1907339 said:


> 1) stick to your current set up. Snow PLOWING is where your insurance rates skyrocket. I do only blowers and I pay a fraction of what other guys in my area pay.
> 
> 2) adding insurance to your plow is not insurance. You need contractor's general liability insurance.
> 
> 3) do not do this commercial account. If they give it to you, they're nuts anyway. Doing your mowing customers driveways with an atv is easy, you need to keep that lot clear, and you can't do that sitting in math class. You can't get the insurance you definitely need.
> 
> 4) unless you're doing huge lots salters are a waste of money and more of a hassle than they're worth. They will toast your rear end, you have to go outside to load them anyway, and they're expensive. Get yourself a nice earthway salt spreader and save yourself 800 bucks minimum.


how should i charge for the plowing and salting whats the typical rate and is doing it by the square foot a good way to go about it.


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## nnusskern

MakkTruck;1907355 said:


> how should i charge for the plowing and salting whats the typical rate and is doing it by the square foot a good way to go about it.


Just got to estimate how long it will take you to do and the amount of material you will use. Issue with a sqft is that it depends on condition such as if its very steep or wide open vs a lot of curbs and stuff. Also I have had GL insurance since I was 17.


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## PLandscaping

MakkTruck;1907355 said:


> how should i charge for the plowing and salting whats the typical rate and is doing it by the square foot a good way to go about it.


You could do sq ft but it seems excessively complicated. At least do it like you would charge for fertilizer which is by 1000 sq ft. Use findlotsize.com for measuring.

I would get a minimum price, and then charge based off that. Say a two car wide two car long drive is $40, then add on for longer times after that. You can set a price per 1k sq ft if you'd like.

Definitely measure your application rate for salt. Say you use calcium chloride at $18 a bag, use a bag on a home I would charge at least $40 for the application, and if you're only salting, I'd charge a salt service call fee.


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## MakkTruck

nnusskern;1907371 said:


> Just got to estimate how long it will take you to do and the amount of material you will use. Issue with a sqft is that it depends on condition such as if its very steep or wide open vs a lot of curbs and stuff. Also I have had GL insurance since I was 17.


what is gl insurance and how did you get it at 17/ who did you use.

also an example of a job i have is 138 feet long by 9.5 feet wide. if i was going to do it by the sq foot what would you charge and also does anyone do presalting?


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## PLandscaping

MakkTruck;1907377 said:


> what is gl insurance and how did you get it at 17/ who did you use.
> 
> also an example of a job i have is 138 feet long by 9.5 feet wide. if i was going to do it by the sq foot what would you charge and also does anyone do presalting?


I have a $35 minimum no salt, that would fall under my minimum. I use geico.


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## MakkTruck

also does anyone know anything about toro single stage blowers. my brother really likes the look of 721 would this work for sidewalks instead of shoveling the paths. also has anyone used the snow plow shovels thinking about getting the dominator and 28inch one?


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## MakkTruck

PLandscaping;1907382 said:


> I have a $35 minimum no salt, that would fall under my minimum. I use geico.


what size and inch amount would you consider minimum for yourself, thanks.


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## MakkTruck

one more question sorry trying to get my post number up so i can pm, does anyone snow stake my customers seem to of like the idea if so how does that work, how do you charge and do i keep them or do they do at the end of the year.


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## PLandscaping

MakkTruck;1907389 said:


> one more question sorry trying to get my post number up so i can pm, does anyone snow stake my customers seem to of like the idea if so how does that work, how do you charge and do i keep them or do they do at the end of the year.


If you're plowing you definitely should.


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## PLandscaping

MakkTruck;1907385 said:


> what size and inch amount would you consider minimum for yourself, thanks.


2 car width 3 car length would fall under the minimum. No complex or long walk ways, no sidewalks. Add an extra few bucks for sidewalks, depends on the length.


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## leolkfrm

a 10 or 12 horsepower 32" snow blower would do a lot of work for you and the customers will be happy


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## Snow tracker

Wow lots of questions. Rates for service can very so much from one place to the next. I personally have a $45 minimum to plow a drive. That may be to high or to low in your area??? Salting is the same it can vary so much. There's nothing wrong with doubling the price of the product to apply it. Then charge a service fee if you make a special trip to salt and don't charge the fee if you apply it when you plow. Snow plowing is a commodity. The more guys with plows the cheaper the rates tend to be. The only way to raise your rate is by doing a quality job every time. Make your customers want you to service them not the next guy that knocks on the door with a low price. 

GL insurance is general liability. It is more than just car insurance on your truck. It covers you against things like running your plow in to the clients garage door. If someone has a accident because of the plié of snow you left in the middle of the street??? Stuff like that.


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## PLandscaping

leolkfrm;1907676 said:


> a 10 or 12 horsepower 32" snow blower would do a lot of work for you and the customers will be happy


Agreed. Build your base with small equipment that is less likely to cause damage, and have your parents create an insurance policy that you're covered under. They'll do it, because if there's a slip and fall at one of your accounts and they sue, your parents are the ones who are screwed.


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## Fannin76

MakkTruck;1907094 said:


> Who has the best plan then for snow plowing. Is there anyway your can combine all seasons into one plan? Also is charging by the sqaute foot the best way to go with salting and plowing? Thanks Davis
> 
> Also what blizzard plow would anyone recommend?


I have statefarm my contractor policy is a 2 mil policy. My agent said I didn't need an additional policy for plowing because it would be covered under my auto insurance. 72 bucks a month for gen lib. and 50 for my truck


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## Fannin76

PLandscaping;1907339 said:


> 1) stick to your current set up. Snow PLOWING is where your insurance rates skyrocket. I do only blowers and I pay a fraction of what other guys in my area pay.
> 
> 2) adding insurance to your plow is not insurance. You need contractor's general liability insurance.
> 
> 3) do not do this commercial account. If they give it to you, they're nuts anyway. Doing your mowing customers driveways with an atv is easy, you need to keep that lot clear, and you can't do that sitting in math class. You can't get the insurance you definitely need.
> 
> 4) unless you're doing huge lots salters are a waste of money and more of a hassle than they're worth. They will toast your rear end, you have to go outside to load them anyway, and they're expensive. Get yourself a nice earthway salt spreader and save yourself 800 bucks minimum.


I have a meyer mini spreader, paid 80 bucks and put a 90 dollar motor on it.....less then 200 bucks. also picked up a curtis 40 bucks at auction. cheap spreaders are out there.


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## PLandscaping

Fannin76;1907752 said:


> I have a meyer mini spreader, paid 80 bucks and put a 90 dollar motor on it.....less then 200 bucks. also picked up a curtis 40 bucks at auction. cheap spreaders are out there.


My point is, if he's not doing large commercial lots truck spreaders are kind of pointless. It's more of a pain to use them on small drives than it's worth


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## Fannin76

PLandscaping;1907784 said:


> My point is, if he's not doing large commercial lots truck spreaders are kind of pointless. It's more of a pain to use them on small drives than it's worth


i like them for drive ways if ur getting out to salt why not put a bag in and get back in the warmth of the truck?


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## PLandscaping

Fannin76;1907793 said:


> i like them for drive ways if ur getting out to salt why not put a bag in and get back in the warmth of the truck?


True, but drives in my market are generally pretty small. So it really depends on your area.


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## Fannin76

PLandscaping;1907796 said:


> True, but drives in my market are generally pretty small. So it really depends on your area.


The ones I do are only about 2-3 car lengths so not huge but times money and I know I can salt one with my spreader in les then a minute and I know my spread paterns good. A drop spreader and you've got to make a bunch of passes a broadcast spreader I've noticed freeze up, well the seed spreaders


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## Fannin76

PLandscaping;1907796 said:


> True, but drives in my market are generally pretty small. So it really depends on your area.


But that's not the point of this thread the point is to give advise not conflicting opinions. I admire young guys who want to get into the business and know how to work hard.


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## PLandscaping

Fannin76;1907805 said:


> But that's not the point of this thread the point is to give advise not conflicting opinions. I admire young guys who want to get into the business and know how to work hard.


Definitely, my biggest concern is simply that his parents can be held liable. Getting into the commercial market underage is just a bad idea.

I hope my own kids end up being this entrepreneurial.


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## Fannin76

PLandscaping;1907817 said:


> Definitely, my biggest concern is simply that his parents can be held liable. Getting into the commercial market underage is just a bad idea.
> 
> I hope my own kids end up being this entrepreneurial.


Oh yea stay away from the commercial properties. I totally think resis is the way to go for this kid. My daughter loves every aspect of my business, mower time with daddy, helping me rake playing with the plow controller. Shoot today I had her in the drive way playing with my snow shovel on wheels she loves it. I really hope she succeeds in life but if she wants to do what daddy does when she grows up I'll be ecstatic as well.


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## MakkTruck

So after some time to think we have started to redo the snow season plan. We have figured out an equation to come up with the plow area price so now we just use a wheel measuring stick, plugged the numbers in and whola. As far as equipment goes we are going to stick with the atv and pick up a toro 721 for the sidewalks and tight spots/anything close to anything with a price tag haha. We are going to by a pallet of (49) 50 pound bags of magic salt. I'm going to pick up a salt spreader of craigslist (walk behind). Its suppose to be animal friendly, sod friendly, and work the best. We are also ordering Kage snow stakes and replacement paddles for the blower. since it is the season we bought new strobes and flood light for the atv will post pictures later. Just one last question to ask, does anyone know were i can find/buy a new edge for the bottom of my plow. Its 50 inches wide/long and couldn't find one off of arctic cats website (its an arctic cat blade). Also which one is the best edge to use poly or or the other options better? I think all that is left is snow and to wish everyone a very merry christmas and good luck with the season, thanks Davis M.


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## 04trd

Honestly it's a good start. But! Remember this when it snows the people want there drive done. They don't want to hear the excuse your in school or I can't get my Atv to start. What I did was plow for a contractor. Had no problems getting me on their insurance. Get to know the busniess and how everything works. Than you can calculate how long you do the route with their equipment and that's a good biases to start off of. Grant it you will have a very hard time finding someone to insure a 16 year old but it could happen. Also if something breaks down and your in a contract you better have a back up idea or someone you can call to do your route while you fix stuff.


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## MakkTruck

*update*

Thought i would let you guys know what ended up happening. I bought two toro snowblowers. We just had a huge storm and used the atv and the two blowers. We picked up alot if driveways and a few commercial yards. the big thing that has happened is i was at my salt dealer and they also sell snow plows and just talking but ended up making a deal that they would buy my atv for 4000 and then the rest of the money would be taken off as a student discount for a brand knew snowdogg VXF installed and everything. It goes on monday morning. Im so excited and wanted to thnak everyone for all the responsees, happy plowing ussmileyflag


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## ggb6259

Insurance?


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## dieselss

ggb6259;1965227 said:


> Insurance?


That's crazy talk right there.


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## 1olddogtwo

ggb6259;1965227 said:


> Insurance?


U just killed his dreams.


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## ggb6259

Trying to save his and his parents lives.... 
Sounds like a sales person did him in. But we all take chances everyday.

hope for the best,


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## 1olddogtwo

ggb6259;1965247 said:


> Trying to save his and his parents lives....
> Sounds like a sales person did him in. But we all take chances everyday.
> 
> hope for the best,


I heard that!!!!


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## MakkTruck

I am looking into insurance for plowing and will finish out the season without it and be real carful but we're suppose to only have one more storm if that and I'll take it easy and then when I turn 17 this coming June I will get it either threw me since I've heard you can get it at 17 or go threw my moms insurance plan. I dropped the truck off today and they will mount it and then I go in tmrw at twelve to help wire it so I know how to fix it if it breaks. They are now also giving me a free v box salt spreader that a guy traded in, all I know is it is an electric poly one I'm so excited and thankful, thanks for all the replies and help this snow season best of luck, Davis. Also does anyone know or think it's a good idea to get strobes if so what type of setup is good? I had them on my atv and really liked knowing that people saw me.


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## Loganab13

Not trying to stir the pot here but........ your dealer just "happened" to give you a "free" poly vbox? & a student discount on a Snowdogg vplow? Don't know if it's just me, but something sounds really fishy here. If i were you, I would pray with everything I have that it doesn't snow, not having insurance is one of the fastest, easiest ways to get yourself into trouble.


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## MakkTruck

Sorry forgot to say it was a used on on a trade in but I think they want me to plow and salt for them and that's why I was really surprised when they told me this. Didn't mean to lie there thought I put it was used.


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## usmcdroach

I wish you the best kid. But I smell what everyone else is stepping in and it doesn't smell to good. I think you got swindled by this "plow dealer" or you just committed to plowing and salting their lot without even knowing. And at what cost? Maybe even free!


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## jonniesmooth

I didn't read all the posts. Did any one mention YOU'RE 16, you can't legally sign a contract for anything

I'm an old fart now, and my memory isn't so good. You maybe can buy a truck from a private party, but I doubt a dealer will let you sign for one.

It is kind of sad that young ambitious guys have the system **** blocking them.

But here's another buzzkill, under 18 can't operate self driven power equipment, OSHA


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