# quick question about low ballers



## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

why don't most of you people dislike low ballers? i am a seasonal business owner because i landscape. so in the winter time me and my guys don't have much to do. i usually low ball on things that are big to occupy their time so they have something to do when i am not busy. same goes for the snow when their isn't much to do in the winter time why not occupy you guys by ice control or plowing????? maybe theres something i am missing that some guys want to bleed every penny out of a client??? just a quick question please don't take offense to it. do all of you people have year round jobs? or small enough companys to not low ball things to occupy your guys?
thanks please dont take offense


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

aees115 said:


> why don't most of you people dislike low ballers? i am a seasonal business owner because i landscape. so in the winter time me and my guys don't have much to do. i usually low ball on things that are big to occupy their time so they have something to do when i am not busy. same goes for the snow when their isn't much to do in the winter time why not occupy you guys by ice control or plowing????? maybe theres something i am missing that some guys want to bleed every penny out of a client??? just a quick question please don't take offense to it. do all of you people have year round jobs? or small enough companys to not low ball things to occupy your guys?
> thanks please dont take offense


"Why *don't* most of you people *dislike* low ballers?" I guess that means you're saying most guys like lowballers.

I think you're asking why they *do* dislike lowballers.

Anyway, let me ask you - How would you like it if someone consistently bid landscaping jobs for half of what you do?

Or, if someone showed me your bid, and I said "I can do that for half of what he's bidding".


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## JustUsDe (Aug 14, 2003)

Mick,
I was wondering who was gonna answer that question. I was also wondering how nice of an answer it was going to be. Leave it to you to be nice and to the point at the same time. I can't answer the question because I am trying to be a professional business person and I can't think of a nice way to answer that question.


Ray


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## rnblase (Jan 13, 2002)

*Low Baller Answer*

To answer your question, why people don't like low ballers.

Apparently you do not understand that the snow removal business is an industry in itself, as allot of people on here can tell you, you can make a living at it if you so choose.

You might want to start thinking of low ballers as someone who contributes to bringing an industry down. Just as cutting grass 15 years ago would bring you twice as much money as it does today, because of low ballers customers can find almost anyone to cut there grass cheaper than the other guy.
And believe me my friend, that does not help pay the bills.

This is why the next time you think of low balling something you might want to ask your self; How much is my time worth?

If you want to stay busy in the winter do us ALL a favor take up a hobby.
  :realmad:


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## roidman81 (Nov 19, 2004)

*regestration*

Together we in the industry can stop low bidding ... registration and licensing.. it sounds like a slogan a dream but it is real and all WE have to do is start!


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

It is supply and demand and there are too many plows out there for the work availible so that drive down price to big time sometimes. Like it or not, there is little that you can do about it. It will get worse before it gets better.


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## wls (Aug 17, 2003)

The other day was our first plow of the season, I knew about four or five of us in my city that did plowing on a business level. By that I mean having a business and insurance etc. Anyways I saw probably 10 different trucks out plowing, some even without amber lights etc. Not saying all them aren't legit, but makes you wonder. 
If they don't even have the overhead to buy a light, and probably no insurance, you know they can plow cheaper then me.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

wls said:


> The other day was our first plow of the season, I knew about four of us in my city that did plowing on a business level. By that I mean having a business and insurance etc. Anyways I saw probably 10 differant trucks out plowing, some evan without amber lights etc. Not saying all them aren't legit, but makes you wonder.


I would venture to say that over half of the small time operators out there even have commercail insurance and registration.


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

thats great to see but not many people answered my question??? i am a legit business and all. someone said "i saw a guy without amber lights" in my state you need a permit to have amber lights so if someone doesn't have them it doesn't mean your not legit or committed. however i landscape too. if someone low balls me all the more power to them but i am plenty confident in my work and i by all means am not cheap. if you have a strong customer relations you shouldn't have a problem. from what i can gather here is the people who don't need year round work don't low ball. but to keep your guys busy because you don't want them to be laid off you would low ball. i know thats what well established businesses do maybe its a different stand point with others. for me i have all my lawn accounts that i plow for strictly commercial i dont really like residential because no money in plowing i see and to many headaches. i don't low ball when it comes to snow because i have a strong client base. in my view i think i am higher then most guys.


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## Robhollar (Dec 27, 2003)

All I have to say on this is to look at the rest of aees115's post. Keep in mind he is only 20 years old...Rob


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## roidman81 (Nov 19, 2004)

*Nj*

The snow here is not regular snow its kind-of a nice white powdery stuff at night.. no one out just plain old winter wonderland... THEN the suv guys come out say around 430 am or 5 am .. then the guys in there Mercedes an then about 600am the sales guys grand pr-ix.. all hell breaks loose.. the lo-ballers get into accidents with these guys. Did you know that 90% of all snow plow related accidents occur going to and from you sites?? huh make you want to get out there and make money ??!!


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Ok, I'll try again (thanks for the compliment, Ray). To start with, to me a lowballer is someone who deliberately and knowingly underbids by using someone else's bid as a guide. Now, if you submit a bid based on your costs and profit margin, that's not a lowballer (in my opinion). The reason I hate lowballers is that they are frauds, cheats and lazy (by definition). 

The other form of lowballer is the one who does not have the appropriate "trappings" for the business (commercial vehicle insurance, general liability, licenses, permits etc; I'm not talking about the guy who uses old equipment until he can afford better). This guy is unfair competition as he is not legitimate. Unfortunately, some people and even businesses use these guys because they can do the work cheaper than the guy running legitimate business.

Now, you said you lowball in order to have work for your guys during the winter. Well, I'm just the opposite. My focus is snow and ice management, sale of treated salt and firewood. So, if I should hire someone should I get a couple of Murray mowers and take a loss on mowing to keep them busy during the summer? Heck, I could probably read up a bit and do some rock wall installs, rent a Bobcat and do some grading for the cost of the rental or maybe dig some foundations. Well, maybe I wouldn't do as good a job as some, but I could be cheap and keep the guys busy. 

Maybe I could even move into your neighborhood and bid on the same jobs as you. I could bid pretty low, too. I'm retired with a good pension, so I could actually take a loss and put you out of business.

Have I answered your question sufficiently?


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## JustUsDe (Aug 14, 2003)

Mick,
If you need help putting people like him out of business let me know. I will save you the Bobcat rental and let you use it for free if it helps to knock out someone who thinks it's okay to steal food from my family just to keep busy in the winter. I will even through in some free mowers and weedwackers. I'm sure some of the other legit business people on this site would kick in some supplies. Let's knock them out one at a time.

There I went and done it I lost my cool and didn't stay professional, Hey but you know what it feels good.

OH, Yea, Which is it aees115 Do you low ball or not? In two different posts you say you do and you say you don't in this thread. I'm confused, what are you trying to get at with this question?

Ray


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## jax1013 (Dec 28, 2002)

*Flip-flop*

He pulled a John Kerry move...FLIP-FLOP... FLIP-FLOP


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

It is a fine line between being a low baller and trying to get more bussiness. Just because you might charge less it does not make you a low baller as I have seen some real high baller scalpers too. I guess it is all a matter of prespective and we bargin shop at store for best price, what cant clients do likewise? (BTW, I am not taking sides here, I am only saying it all is a matter of how you look at it sometimes and how hungry the plow operators are too.


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

well apprenetly we hav alot of illetrate people here. as i had said. I am NOT a low baller as an opinion i am alittle high on things. so who ever may want to go to one of my clients and bid on the property to low ball i have no problem with.......... as i said i have a very strong client base......... so apprently we arnt reasing the between the lines... all i asked was simple question about why people dont like low ballers and some got all up in arms about it.


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

one thing i will even give you my numbers then you can low ball to make you morte confident


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

Lowbaling or highballing is all relative . If you are the most expensive contractor then everyone is a lowballer , if you are the cheapest guy on the block everyone else is highballing or ripping off the customer. The economy , and the law of supply and demand will even out the pricing . What ever business you are in , regardless of what it is , there is always someone cheaper and someone more expensive.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

It is not worth getting in a tizzy over.


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## larryjlk (Aug 29, 2003)

perhaps if you're consistantly getting low balled you might want to reconsider your prices. just a thought.


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

larryjlk said:


> perhaps if you're consistantly getting low balled you might want to reconsider your prices. just a thought.


Good advise because "maybe" you are not being lowballed at all, you are just too high. It can be dog eat dog out there at times.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

aees115 said:


> well apprenetly we hav alot of illetrate people here. as i had said. I am NOT a low baller as an opinion i am alittle high on things. so who ever may want to go to one of my clients and bid on the property to low ball i have no problem with.......... as i said i have a very strong client base......... so apprently we arnt reasing the between the lines... all i asked was simple question about why people dont like low ballers and some got all up in arms about it.


Now I'm finding this really confusing. In your first post, which I also quoted, you said - "i usually low ball on things that are big to occupy their time so they have something to do when i am not busy. same goes for the snow when their isn't much to do in the winter time why not occupy you guys by ice control or plowing?????"

Now you're calling me illiterate?


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

no not at all i am a larger company with my employees. i need to have work for them. so i will low ball a large place for landscaping so when they need something to do they go over and do whatever. usually most company's do that same goes for snow. i didn't bid on large snow sites because i am not worried about it this year, however people low ball me all the time and i am not the least concerned about it nor does it bother me what so ever. i know i have a strong client base apparently SOME don't do good work so they are low balled and the low baller gets the contrat unlike myself who is not lowballing and keeps the client......


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## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

*lowballers*

In this wonderful country, you have the freedom to under bid someone to get a job. I do it all the time. I don't need a high profit margin and I get more jobs that way so it all works out. payup


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

now i can tell you what is wrong with our coutry now blade master GREED. everyone is greddy but i see your point from a business stand point your not greedy


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

aees115 said:


> now i can tell you what is wrong with our country now blade master GREED. everyone is greedy


Not everyone, just the ones with the most influence or power usually.


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

Tarkus said:


> It is a fine line between being a low baller and trying to get more bussiness. Just because you might charge less it does not make you a low baller as I have seen some real high baller scalpers too. I guess it is all a matter of prespective and we bargin shop at store for best price, what cant clients do likewise? (BTW, I am not taking sides here, I am only saying it all is a matter of how you look at it sometimes and how hungry the plow operators are too.


Tarkus
i couldn't agree more i think alot of people here are hypocrites. i am sure they shop around for things to get the best price they can. just as a client can too some people can do it cheaper or sell it cheaper


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## Midwest (Oct 16, 2004)

I wouldn't say everyone is greedy. 
The way I see it, is it all depends on the area your in. In my area, Insurance, equipment, fuel, repairs etc,, are all a bit above the average. Therefore, my price is typically a bit above average. I'm not the highest and definately not the lowest. I have bid on some and didn't get the job, but guess what, about halfway through the year, when the cheap guys truck broke down and he went out of business, I got a call to see if I was still available. I have about $50k invested in my rig and my work is worth the money I'm charging. As far as lowballer are concerned, I don't like them, plain and simple, at the end of the day, its money out of my pocket. Heck, I even had a lowballer take my own subdivision from me (1.4 mile asphault for $60), guess what??? he didn't show up until 3 hours after I was done with my entire route last week, Whats that tell ya ( LOL ) YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR... And in case your wondering, No, I did not even drop my blade once, and I live at the back of the subdivision (and loved it) Well, guess who's calling me now???


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Midwest said:


> YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR


Not always as I have seen people pay a lot for a little and a little for a lot. Price does not promise a good job, it is the person behind that "price" that determines that. Lots of competion out there now and that always drives prices down in the long run.


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## QMVA (Oct 9, 2003)

Tarkus said:


> Not always as I have seen people pay a lot for a little and a little for a lot. Price does not promise a good job, it is the person behind that "price" that determines that. Lots of competion out there now and that always drives prices down in the long run.


For the most part it is. :waving:

Low ballers to me are people who jump from one industry to another to try and make some easy cash. They usually don't know what they are doing just that if they cut corners and charge less they can make a buck or two.

Now aees115 you say that you only bid on small jobs like it makes it less of a stress on other plowers. Many plowers only do small accounts because they are to small to take the larger ones. So if you are really a large company like you say you are then you should be trying to get those larger accounts.

The biggest reason I am against people who charge less then the industry average to get accounts is because it just shows that they do not do a good quality job so to get accounts they have to charge less.

O and on your remark about us being illiterate recheck some of YOUR posts. The word Spell Check comes to mind.


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

QMVA said:


> For the most part it is. :waving:
> 
> Low ballers to me are people who jump from one industry to another to try and make some easy cash. They usually don't know what they are doing just that if they cut corners and charge less they can make a buck or two.
> 
> ...


apparently you have a "stress for not reading things properly"
i only bid on *B I G * jobs to occupy my guys not small???????? but anyways your right about how some people jump from industry to another. but small places because they are alittle more of a headache i bid higher. i don't even bother with residential no money and to much stress. but ur right my friend read things thoroughly before having commentary


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

Actually residentail can be a gold mine at times in the country where everybody is moving to on their 5 acre tracks with long driveways in 300 grand plus houses. I can make more money per hour with these guys after a big storm than I do with bussinesss clients usually during the storm and it is less work too overall. It is easy money.


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## Mdirrigation (Dec 12, 2003)

Aees , you say you lowball big jobs to keep your guys busy, ok but you have on your profile that you have 2 trucks . To me that keeps 2 people busy, and in a seperate discussion you want to know what subs make to compare what you are making . Sorry but 2 trucks isnt enough to go after the big jobs. ( I run 4 trucks and 2 backhoes and 2 guys on blowers ) I dont go after the big jobs , small to medium. If you are bidding work to keep people busy , thats a quick way to go out of business . Your profile says you are 20 , there is a lot you havent had to deal with in this business. Wait till you make 2 grand on a storm , and then have to replace a motor in 1 truck and a rear in another truck in 1 week , and the big storm is 24 hours away .


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

Tarkus said:


> Actually residentail can be a gold mine at times in the country where everybody is moving to on their 5 acre tracks with long driveways in 300 grand plus houses. I can make more money per hour with these guys after a big storm than I do with bussinesss clients usually during the storm and it is less work too overall. It is easy money.


not to me i like commercial less stress less headache only one person to answer to instead of 5 diffrent people


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

aees115 said:


> not to me i like commercial less stress less headache only one person to answer to instead of 5 diffrent people


No stress at all and I have my regualar clients that I have had for years and usualy a few new ones every year by word of mouth, they call me and I do not even have to look for them. It is nice to have both kinds of clients.


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## DJL (Oct 28, 2003)

Aees115,

Just forget it. If you give an opinion on this site and it differs from the "majority" you will get an ear full...well, rather, an eye full.

You simply asked a question and provided your opinion in response to answers (which I thought thats what happens on this site). But some people take offense because it differs from their OPINION. Maybe it's a 'joisey' thing. "We" seem to speak our minds and be honest with our opinions.

As for lowballers, who the hell cares. I sell quality, dependability, and reliability. Do I loose to people that have lower bids, yes. My panties don't tie in a bunch and I don't throw a fit. Perhaps they were lower cause their cost to operate is significantly less. don't know, don't care.

As for people who "hate" or "  " lowballers. I hope you do not shop around in supermarkets, hardware stores, auto dealerships, etc.

******************!!!!!!!!!!!NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!*************

ALL OF THESE COMPANIES "lowball" IN ORDER TO STAY IN BUSINESS BY STEALING BUSINESS FROM THEIR COMPETITOR BY SELLING PRODUCTS AND/OR SERVICES LESS THAN THEIR COMPETITOR!!!!!!!

Holy run on sentence batman...

And yes, they are taking food off of your sons and daughters table and the roof over their heads. I hope you don't give ANY of them ANY of your business. If you do, you are a complete hypocrite.


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## Big Nate's Plowing (Nov 26, 2000)

aees115 said:


> now i can tell you what is wrong with our coutry now blade master GREED.


good grief, 









price your services so that you make a decient profit and get over it, it isint like we have a Snowplowers Union unanimous across the board rate chart!!!! Just price according to what you need to make a profit and be done with it


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## Tarkus (Nov 19, 2004)

This thread needs to die :yow!:


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

Big Nate's Plowing said:


> good grief,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yo bro you got some serious reading problems..........you got some built up anger you ever heard of the 1st amendment?????im not even a low baller they dont bother me because i am confident in my work.......i just wanted other peoples opinions


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## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

Man are you ******** or what?! In one post, you say that you lowball, and then in another, you say you don't? Which is it? Sounds like the shortbus stopped at your place.


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

The Boss said:


> Man are you ******** or what?! In one post, you say that you lowball, and then in another, you say you don't? Which is it? Sounds like the shortbus stopped at your place.


lol i like that pretty witty i charge less to occupy my guys..... large property's but only commercial havent done it at all this year all im in it for is an opinion by the way can u define retarted without a dictionary???or school let out before they taught vocab and root words? like I SAID DONT GET ALL UP IN ARMS!!!!!!


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## SnoForce (Feb 8, 2004)

I am thinking maybe some of us could start acting like the professionals that we are suppose to be ??????


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## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

aees115 said:


> lol i like that pretty witty i charge less to occupy my guys..... large property's but only commercial havent done it at all this year all im in it for is an opinion by the way can u define retarted without a dictionary???or school let out before they taught vocab and root words? like I SAID DONT GET ALL UP IN ARMS!!!!!!


It looks like they let your school out before they taught you grammar.  
Definition of ******** without using a dictionary=aees115


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

The Boss said:


> It looks like they let your school out before they taught you grammar.
> Definition of ******** without using a dictionary=aees115


yo man you a two y/o grow up im not here to argue with people find something better to do with your time


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## Boast Enterpris (Oct 26, 2003)

aees115,
Dude, are you a lowballer or highballer in the landscape business as well as snowplow business or what?? Do you even have a snow plow?? Are you a snow plow contractor or a sub?? Do you know how to use the spell check feature on your posts?? Are you a ******** dumb ass or just a dumb ass?? Sorry for all the questions, I tried to make it simple for you. While we are on a school lesson, here a couple of definitions for you. Pest:1 aees115, 2 person or something that causes trouble, annoyance, discomfort. Pest Control: 1 What Plowsite Members like The Boss & Big Nate do. 2 Getting rid of a person or something that causes trouble, annoyance, discomfort. 
BOAST


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

Boast Enterpris said:


> aees115,
> Dude, are you a lowballer or highballer in the landscape business as well as snowplow business or what?? Do you even have a snow plow?? Are you a snow plow contractor or a sub?? Do you know how to use the spell check feature on your posts?? Are you a ******** dumb ass or just a dumb ass?? Sorry for all the questions, I tried to make it simple for you. While we are on a school lesson, here a couple of definitions for you. Pest:1 aees115, 2 person or something that causes trouble, annoyance, discomfort. Pest Control: 1 What Plowsite Members like The Boss & Big Nate do. 2 Getting rid of a person or something that causes trouble, annoyance, discomfort.
> BOAST


thank you for the advise you are causing me a great deal of discomfort and harassment too. i dont take this is a looked over issue i know your probable have alot of built up anger but its not my fault. what you said with your profanity's and obscene personality i dont take well. so i think ill take you up on what u said "est:1 aees115, 2 person or something that causes trouble, annoyance, discomfort. Pest Control: 1 What Plowsite Members like The Boss & Big Nate do. 2 Getting rid of a person or something that causes trouble, annoyance, discomfort. 
BOAST[/QUOTE]"

thanks
P.S. hope you seek help for all built up frustrations......


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## bobingardner (Jul 18, 2004)

aees115 said:


> thank you for the advise you are causing me a great deal of discomfort and harassment too. i dont take this is a looked over issue i know your probable have alot of built up anger but its not my fault. what you said with your profanity's and obscene personality i dont take well. so i think ill take you up on what u said "est:1 aees115, 2 person or something that causes trouble, annoyance, discomfort. Pest Control: 1 What Plowsite Members like The Boss & Big Nate do. 2 Getting rid of a person or something that causes trouble, annoyance, discomfort.


Hi aees115,

Great trolling post you've got going here but I can't quite decrypt your last message. Are you saying you won't be posting to this thread anymore?

Thanks,
bob


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## aees115 (Nov 25, 2004)

bobingardner said:


> Hi aees115,
> 
> Great trolling post you've got going here but I can't quite decrypt your last message. Are you saying you won't be posting to this thread anymore?
> 
> ...


o i am sorry if you misinterpreted me people here dont know what a persons amendment rights are..... but anyways i was say how the person above is harassing me discriminating me and so forth


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## rnblase (Jan 13, 2002)

If you are going to call people Illiterate, please do yourself a favor, and try to spell the word Illiterate properly next time. 
It would really add more validity to your statements.


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## CGLC (Dec 1, 2004)

aees115 said:


> why don't most of you people dislike low ballers? i am a seasonal business owner because i landscape. so in the winter time me and my guys don't have much to do. i usually low ball on things that are big to occupy their time so they have something to do when i am not busy. same goes for the snow when their isn't much to do in the winter time why not occupy you guys by ice control or plowing????? maybe theres something i am missing that some guys want to bleed every penny out of a client??? just a quick question please don't take offense to it. do all of you people have year round jobs? or small enough companys to not low ball things to occupy your guys?
> thanks please dont take offense


 First you say you low ball, then later on you say you don't. If you preform a professional service then why would you have to low ball? Low ball means to me working in the negative profits for a legitimate business. You won't last in the business very long. If you don't have enough work for your guys maybe you have too many guy's working for you. But, on the other hand, if you want to keep your employees why not hussel some more commercial snow accounts and solve the whole problem of not enough work and maybe make a few bucks in the process. I just don't understand why you would not just want to work for the going rate in your area. Do you like giving your work away free? Also, I would not suggest giving out your costumers phone #'s because no matter how good your service are these people are not your best friends they are paying clients, and I would not put it past them if the majority switched . Basically, for many clients in this shaky economy, it all comes down to the mighty dollar. Look we do it ourselves when we are shopping for a new truck, mower, ext ALWAYS looking for the better deal. The word "low baller" is a bitter taste in my mouth. We here try to put out a ligament business and cannot compete with the guy who has half the legal overhead. Low baller = unprofessional= disservice= stealing = decrease in my ends= anger Finally, from what I have read on how most people here are charging, the right price is not "bleeding the last penny out the client". You make it seem people are stealing by charging $100- $150/ hour. I don't mean to sound mean, and I maybe am real off on what you were asking. I had a hard time deciphering your grammar.


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## NNJSnow (Feb 16, 2002)

Lowballers are such a pain in the ass to deal with, but in a way you have to understand certain people can do work for less money and still make money. All companies are different and have different budgets to work with, but then again there are lots you that should always be a certain price like $250.00 a plow and you get some lowballer who says ohhhh ill do it for $75.00 and the other three lots for the same price. We have a lot of guys trying to underbid and what not all the time, some are even from this board, the funny thing is the managers throw the bids right at us so we get a good laugh, you can't sacrafice quality for a cheap price during the winter.

Jeff


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## drplow (Nov 7, 2004)

_quote
why don't most of you people dislike low ballers? i am a seasonal business owner because i landscape. so in the winter time me and my guys don't have much to do. i usually low ball on things that are big to occupy their time so they have something to do when i am not busy. same goes for the snow when their isn't much to do in the winter time why not occupy you guys by ice control or plowing????? maybe theres something i am missing that some guys want to bleed every penny out of a client??? just a quick question please don't take offense to it. do all of you people have year round jobs? or small enough companys to not low ball things to occupy your guys?
thanks please dont take offense_

to get back to mr. aees115 first post, lets say that im a serious snow plower with a crew of workers. we plow for a profit but our busy season lasts only 4 months. so to keep the workers busy and occupy their time in the off season i send them out landscaping. well, we dont want to bleed every penny out of a client, so we loball all the jobs to keep them busy. yep, thats the way to do it.. 
thanks please dont take offense aees115


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## tonybands (Oct 18, 2004)

aees115 said:


> apparently you have a "stress for not reading things properly"
> i only bid on *B I G * jobs to occupy my guys not small???????? but anyways your right about how some people jump from industry to another. but small places because they are alittle more of a headache i bid higher. i don't even bother with residential no money and to much stress. but ur right my friend read things thoroughly before having commentary


You are a pompous *SS who should finish schooling before starting any business. By the way, how much money did daddy give you to start your "very large company".


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## tonybands (Oct 18, 2004)

DJL said:


> Aees115,
> 
> Just forget it. If you give an opinion on this site and it differs from the "majority" you will get an ear full...well, rather, an eye full.
> 
> ...


I agree with "don't know, don't care. But if someone prices a product, ie. snowplowing, ridiculously lower than what the market dictates he is a "low-baller". We all price shop but we rarely buy for less than what it's worth.


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## DJL (Oct 28, 2003)

tonybands said:


> I agree with "don't know, don't care. But if someone prices a product, ie. snowplowing, ridiculously lower than what the market dictates he is a "low-baller". We all price shop but we rarely buy for less than what it's worth.


Tonybands,

In your post you used the words "what the market dictates". Can you please explain to me what, exactly, this is/means. Is there some reference book I go to or snow plowing union or online community or whatever where I can obtain this information? I'm 99.9% sure your answer is going to be no.

So...how does your definition of a "low-baller" have any merit? Perhaps his expenses are 'ridiculously' less than what yours are. Wouldn't this warrant the "low-baller" to come in at a 'ridiculously' lower price? I'm thinking yes. All the power to him, he just took your job fair and square.

Now, with that said. When you loose a bid too someone of a significantly lower price chances are his expenses are lower for a reason. Perhaps they don't have insurance, perhaps they only perform the work during certain hours, perhaps they don't have payroll, perhaps they know the person, whatever. It is your job to point out you have insurance, provide 24/7 service, been in business for 20 some odd years, etc. If the customer still wants to go with the other one you can't blame them. As long as they ("low-ballers" are abiding by the laws and regulations that everyone else is what is the problem?

Not trying to pick a fight here or anything. Just trying to get a constructive conversation. :waving:


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## techman (Dec 6, 2004)

aees115 said:


> why don't most of you people dislike low ballers?


Hi. I am new here and love the site.

In addition to plowing snow I also own a computer repair shop. I used to try and be the lowest price when I 1st started my companies. Sure it gets you a few jobs but the customers you do get I like to call the "Walmart Gang".
They are only loyal until someone else under bids you. Then they are gone no matter how good a job you did and even though you came out at 2AM when no one else would, they are still gone.

Now I compete on service and availability. Now that my prices are such that I make a good profit I did lose some customers but I gained many more ( from referals who value service ) which most of my competators can't/won't match.

How you ever shopped at Safeway? The prices at Safeway here are higher than everywhere else except a corner store/7 Eleven. They are always busy as they provide better service than the competition proving that having lowest price is not nessessary to get you the business. You also can't be like Walmart and underbid everyone for years. They have the billions required to do that - you do not.

Low ballers drive the prices down and reduce our profits. It is very unwise as if they charged a fair price they would still get the business and everyone involved would make more money - which is the whole point of being in business.


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## Norman B (Dec 1, 2004)

I just think that most of these guys have no idea how to bid, for one they don't do it to make a living, or keep there employees busy. The guys doing $300 jobs for $50 they just see it as $50 in their pocket. Most have junk equiptment or like some put plows on their wives 4x4 suburban. No insurance, no pressure, no employees, no tax man. Even if they realized the fact that they were hurting themseves, their customers, and the co. that need to keep food on their plates as well as their employees, I don't think any of that matters. Maybe when somebody gets hurt the townships or even state govenments will get involved an require permits or registrations


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## DERBYDON (Dec 3, 2004)

Hi, 

My first year plowing, but 10 years industrial sales. I've always sold or represented equipment and services with premium pricing.

Keep in mind, "Where there is chaos, there is profit". The "lowballers" are doing us all a favor for 3 reasons:
1. They identify your worst customers and take them off your hands. These are the customers who will complain the most often and loudest. You don't want them.
2. If they are a good customer, it won't take long for them to come back to you. Raise their rates!
3. The lowballer is the easiest competitor to beat. Against him (or her) you can more easily point out the Features - Advantages - Benefits of your service. Example: More trucks, means you have a backup in case of accidents or equipment failures, which means the customer can depend on the service being performed consistently.

Sounds to me like to many of you are fixated on one or two accounts and refuse to recognize that every year you will have to add new customers to replace the ones that go out of business, move, have a new son-in-law that needs work or whatever bs.

With that said, I'm sure I'll be just as ticked off when someone cuts my price by $10 next year and takes one of "my" customers.

DerbyDon

 "In chaos there is profit.." :salute:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I think most of you guys have been had again. My bet is aees115 is not from NJ but someone we know and love from Philadelphia with a new screen name. You know like: Santos, Diesl, 9ftPiles, etc etc. If it's not him then it's one of his friends. 

I just wish I could remember that saying that goes something like 'If you argue with an idiot, you just get an idiot'. You're never going to get anyplace with him even if he is for real. He contradicts himself plus he accuses others of being illiterate when he can't type, speak or spell. Just let these people go. They are morons, we know they are morons, we are not going to change them because they don't care that they are morons.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I just wish I could remember that saying that goes something like 'If you argue with an idiot, you just get an idiot'. You're never going to get anyplace with him even if he is for real. He contradicts himself plus he accuses others of being illiterate when he can't type, speak or spell. Just let these people go.


Never argue with an idiot. Others may not be able to tell you apart.

I started to suspect something. Sometimes I'm a little slow.


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## glenspot (Aug 11, 2004)

I personally like...

Arguing with an idiot is like running int the special Olympics...

Even if he wins...he's still a ******.

Glen

Lord, forgive me...in this time of giving...that was a terrible thing to say.... Amen.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mick said:


> Never argue with an idiot. Others may not be able to tell you apart.
> 
> I started to suspect something. Sometimes I'm a little slow.


Thanks for reminding me Mick. You have a good heart. You want to help and then people like this take advantage of decent people like you.


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