# Steep driveway, dirt & asphalt, chains, automatic or manual



## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

I know there have been other threads about auto Vs manual. (which I have read). I have a very specific situation I'd like to talk about plowing it in general, and when I have to replace my truck, what should I consider?

I posted this in someone else's thread about plowing dirt driveways, but I don't want to hijack that thread.

I'm new to plowing as we just moved to central New Hampshire, on the side of a mountain. We live off what they call a "Class 6" dirt road up here. It means the town owns it, but doesn't maintain it. The only other house on my road is a summer residence, so if I want to maintain access to my house, I have to plow the town road in from where they DO maintain another dirt road up from the lake. All in, it's about 3/4 mile. It's mostly pretty easy, except from my house down the first hill on my driveway, which may be as much as 35 degrees in pitch (I keep meaning to put an inclinometer on it, LOL). 

I'm plowing with a ' 02 F-250SD 5-speed with a Fisher plow and a Fisher sander in the back. The learning curve has been a b!tch! 

The top of my driveway around the garage is an asphalt apron, and it's paved down the hill for about the first 20 yards or so where it switches to dirt. On top of that, there is a curve in it at the top of the first part of the hill that I have to deal with (doesn't help traction to be on an angle).

Our first snowfall caught me a little by surprised, I had the plow on the truck, but not the sander (which weighs 600lbs empty). I thought I could get away without chains, BOY was I wrong. I'd been warned about getting sideways in that curve on the hill, and shure as sit, that's what happened...After I changed my underwear, things got better.

I discovered that the only way for me to safely negotiate that hill is to do it in 4W Low, in "L" gear and ride it slowly down (chained on all 4). If you break traction of that hill, you are NOT recovering it with brakes. Especially with the weight of 2 cu/yds of sand in the sander! 

The driveway faces SouthWest, which is why the asphalt apron up top and the first section of asphalt on top clean themselves nicely after a storm & plowing...The black surface heats up in any sun, even if it's below freezing. Sometimes however, it's been warm then iced up underneath on the asphalt portion, the chains become a liability. 

The truck is obviously getting a little long in the tooth, so I want to start thinking about my options. My Wife doesn't know how to drive stick (yet, LOL). An automatic would make life easier in the cab, but I don't think an automatic, even in 4W Low would "creep" down the hill in as a "controlled" manner as the standard does...... Thoughts on this? I have an automatic '13 Chevy Silverado 2500HD that I use for my company, and it seems like even in I'm in 4W Low, if I had a plow on it I would have to use the brakes.


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

I mean't to post this in the original post. The steepest part is actually at the very top.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

time to set up a truck for just the hill and have something at the bottom for highway


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

I don't understand your suggestion. If you're saying leave a vehicle at the bottom of the hill to drive out in back to town in, I may as well not plow the drive in winter at all and just go up & down the hill on snow machines! Not likely, although if push came to shove that's the plan of last resort.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

He means set up a truck just for plowing and then have your family vechicle


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Can't remember the last time I plowed in 4lo even with chains on.
And yea ive plowed in the mountains.

Sleep hill, heavy truck, 4lo skidding from when you lift your foot. 
Use your breaks instead of the drivetrain to gradually slow rotation of the wheels in 4hi

Q. If this hill is so steap and slipery how do you get up it?

Then you may need to spread whatever you have inn that sander.
Remove the shoes so your plow can scrape it clean.

If your state allows studed tires, you may want to get a set for the winter.

Or Use your chains and scrape it and sand it.

As mentioned, get a 2nd vehicel set up to handle your access rd.
And leave your vehicles at the bottom.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

First like you said you are new to snow. You will soon become more accustomed to driving in it. That driveway is not very steep in the pic, but pictures can be deceiving. There is no reason a truck in 4HI, with chains would have any problems. Especially once you get the sander in the back. If you do put 2cubic yards of sand, which is 2 tons, it ain't gonna slide around much. 

My opinion is buy the truck that you want for everyday, year round use. Any new HD truck will handle that driveway with chains or studded tires, automatic or manual is going to be your preference.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

It's common practice in situations like this is to have a dedicated vehicle to deal with the snow. Chain up all four tires in the fall, leave the plow on the truck all season and park it at the top to use as needed. When plowing use 4h and put in low gear and go slowly down the hill. If your tires break loose give it a little throttle so the tries can catch up to the ground speed, if you don't you'll gain speed and things won't end well. 

Don't understand why you have a spreader with 2cu yard capacity for your driveway. I'd get rid of that it's not doing you any real favors. When loaded sure it adds weight but if / when you get sideways that weight will shift and could end up rolling the truck.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Marleywood said:


> It's mostly pretty easy, except from my house down the first hill on my driveway, which may be as much as 35 degrees in pitch (I keep meaning to put an inclinometer on it, LOL).


35° is pretty steep, you sure? That's just shy of 75%.

First one is just for Defcon:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Can't get these to load for some reason:

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/psa-slope-1447441995

So, OP, you got a pic of this 35° hill that your driveway is on?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Here's some kewl vids:


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Duluth's steepest street, Fifth Avenue West and Fifth Street.

The Duluth News Tribune reports that it has a grade of 25%. To give some perspective, according to the article, the steepest run at Spirit Mountain is 19%.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

. Minneapolis Avenue - 19%








for comparison
and the op's is "my house down the first hill on my driveway, which may be as much as 35 degrees in pitch"

how aboot a winch....


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> 35° is pretty steep, you sure? That's just shy of 75%.
> 
> First one is just for Defcon:


What was the slope when the you did SS water testing.....


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm more apt to put the trans in 1 or 2 then 4lo


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> What was the slope when the you did SS water testing.....


Wet


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> 35° is pretty steep, you sure? That's just shy of 75%.
> 
> First one is just for Defcon:


Looks as if I'm trying to run you over with the Ventrac...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

I say just gun it...Go as fast as you can...If you get stuck on a rock or in a ditch...Just gun it somemore....Thumbs Up


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies. The plow vehicle IS dedicated for plowing the property. I leave it chained up and up on top in one of my garage bays. It only leaves the property when I go down the mountain to get sand at the Highway Dept, about 2 miles. I'm planning to get a tractor for the place (previous owner had one) to maintain the driveway, and to have my own sand up here, but that may not happen this season.

As for the pitch up top, yeah, it's steep. I'll put the my inclinometer app on it when I get a chance.

I need that much sand, because, as I said, I have to keep nearly 3/4 of a mile clear and drivable. As for the danger of flipping it, I am VERY cognizant of that & have been scared.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Defcon 5 said:


> Looks as if I'm trying to run you over with the Ventrac...


Looks like he got Lipo too.....


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Marleywood said:


> Thanks for all the replies. The plow vehicle IS dedicated for plowing the property. I leave it chained up and up on top in one of my garage bays. It only leaves the property when I go down the mountain to get sand at the Highway Dept, about 2 miles. I'm planning to get a tractor for the place (previous owner had one) to maintain the driveway, and to have my own sand up here, but that may not happen this season.
> 
> As for the pitch up top, yeah, it's steep. I'll put the my inclinometer app on it when I get a chance.
> 
> I need that much sand, because, as I said, I have to keep nearly 3/4 of a mile clear and drivable. As for the danger of flipping it, I am VERY cognizant of that & have been scared.


Not trying to down play your situation in any way....... I lived at about 7500' elevation in the Colorado mountains for about 25yrs. Driveways like you describe yours being are common place and you're drive appears to be nothing special... if anything it's as nice as maintained county roads oot west. If you're lucky enough to have sun on the driveway you're in a much better situation than not.
It's hard for guys on PS to give you an absolute answer since we haven't seen the property first hand. Every property has it's own characteristics so my advice it take you're time, learn from mistakes or butt pucker incidents and try to keep it clear of ice. 
Whatever you do don't pave or concrete it, it'll be a skating rink.


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

BUFF said:


> Not trying to down play your situation in any way....... I lived at about 7500' elevation in the Colorado mountains for about 25yrs........
> Whatever you do don't pave or concrete it, it'll be a skating rink.


It's a matter of prospective and experience.

Interesting you say that about paving. As I mentioned, the top of the hill at the garage is asphalt, as is the first 20 yards or so down the hill. We were wondering if paving down the rest of the steep part would help...


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

salt is always an option if paved, cinders for icy gravel


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Our pits oot here have a product called Squeegee.

_* Squeegee is a 1/4" minus aggregate. It is about the size of a BB pellet, with a small amount of sand in it.*_
It gives a lot of traction.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

we call that filler stone at the fertilizer plant


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Ok, so its a fisher plow... is that STRAIGHT or V?

The thing with straight plows, is that in addition to pushing back into the vehicle, they also push SIDEWAYS. So if the hill is as terrible as you say it is, then the scary thing I could see is heading down the hill, and having the plow blade catch and push you over to the side, leaving you in a bad spot that you may not be able to back up/out of.

A V plow won't do that. Or at least not nearly as much. Head down the hill and you won't be fighting to keep it going in a straight line. If the plow catches, then you just stop, add a little lift to unsnag it, and keep on going.

So what is the reason you're looking to replace the vehicle? Is it because the vehicle is scary on that hill? Or is it because you think that the thing is getting too old? As a "dedicated plow beater" (which seems to be what you're using it as), 2002 is practically brand new. My "dedicated plow beater" is a 1991. If you're scared of driving it on the hill with a straight blade plow, then instead of changing vehicles, go get yourself a V plow.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Buy winter house in town.


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

jasonv said:


> Ok, so its a fisher plow... is that STRAIGHT or V?
> 
> The thing with straight plows, is that in addition to pushing back into the vehicle, they also push SIDEWAYS. So if the hill is as terrible as you say it is, then the scary thing I could see is heading down the hill, and having the plow blade catch and push you over to the side, leaving you in a bad spot that you may not be able to back up/out of.
> 
> ...


It's a straight plow, and yes, the exact situation has happened to me on the hill twice, and it's spun me sideways twice, which was scary. I was able to self extricate both times, but it wasn't pretty.

I understand that for a dedicated "beater" truck it could still be pretty serviceable, but as I think I mentioned, we just bought the house and truck from the previous owner, and I don't know how hard the last cowboy rode this horse. We've already had to put $ in the brakes and sander, and now the clutch needs to be replaced and more work done on the sander.

At this point it feels like throwing good money after bad (which my Wife detests), so we decided to put a new plow on my 2013 Silverado 2500HD. We got a Fisher 8'6" MinuteMount2 XV2. Now it probably won't snow the rest of the winter, LOL. That's fine


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Good choice.


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## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Marleywood said:


> It's a straight plow, and yes, the exact situation has happened to me on the hill twice, and it's spun me sideways twice, which was scary. I was able to self extricate both times, but it wasn't pretty.
> 
> I understand that for a dedicated "beater" truck it could still be pretty serviceable, but as I think I mentioned, we just bought the house and truck from the previous owner, and I don't know how hard the last cowboy rode this horse. We've already had to put $ in the brakes and sander, and now the clutch needs to be replaced and more work done on the sander.
> 
> At this point it feels like throwing good money after bad (which my Wife detests), so we decided to put a new plow on my 2013 Silverado 2500HD. We got a Fisher 8'6" MinuteMount2 XV2. Now it probably won't snow the rest of the winter, LOL. That's fine


Eh, well the way I would look at that is that a clutch is a small thing. In fact, a clutch is a WEAR ITEM. Like tires. Same with brakes. The sander is an 'accessory', so really has nothing to do with the TRUCK being good or not. If the sander is no good, back up to your scrap junk pit and dump it off. So with that TINY bit of maintenance of WEAR or not-really-related items, I can't imagine how you can see it as "throwing good money after bad". Even your new truck will eventually wear down its brakes, and guessing at it being an automatic, if you blow that up (which usually happens in about the same time as a clutch lasts), then you won't be paying a LITTLE bit to maintain, you'll be paying a LOT to REPAIR/REPLACE.

In any case though, the new V plow should keep you going in a straight line, regardless of what truck its on.


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

jasonv said:


> Eh, well the way I would look at that is that a clutch is a small thing. In fact, a clutch is a WEAR ITEM. Like tires. Same with brakes. The sander is an 'accessory', so really has nothing to do with the TRUCK being good or not. If the sander is no good, back up to your scrap junk pit and dump it off. So with that TINY bit of maintenance of WEAR or not-really-related items, I can't imagine how you can see it as "throwing good money after bad". Even your new truck will eventually wear down its brakes, and guessing at it being an automatic, if you blow that up (which usually happens in about the same time as a clutch lasts), then you won't be paying a LITTLE bit to maintain, you'll be paying a LOT to REPAIR/REPLACE.
> 
> In any case though, the new V plow should keep you going in a straight line, regardless of what truck its on.


I hear what you're saying, but the wild card in this equation that you don't know enough about is my "partner in crime". She has very strong opinions about spending money on "old" (or "used") vehicles or any power equipment. In the end, the best course of action (generally speaking) is not to try to swim upstream or against the current unless absolutely necessary. I'm not complaining, she's my rock.

Getting rid of the old truck and even older sander and "plowing up" my Silverado also still doesn't solve my sanding needs, but that's the next discussion.


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

Oh, I probably should have mentioned a couple more things. Firstly, my Wife has never driven standard transmission, so not only is the concept of clutches wearing out being part of the drill foreign to her (especially one that hauls a 800lb sander up a steep hill with 2 cu/yds of sand in it), but also since she can't drive it, she feels like she can't really fully participate if need be. (Although she can't drive standard, grew up in NYC, she's a trouper who's up for most tasks). Yeah, I can teach her to drive stick, but not this winter AND how to plow (a hill!) 

I also can't imagine this big ass plow on that F-250.

It's probably also a more attractive package to sell the truck/plow/sander combo up here to someone who doesn't have some of the same "challenges". Again, don't get me wrong, I'd let her read this no problem...it's a small difference in philosophies. I'm more "frugal".


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