# Chinese Wheel loader



## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey guys, I need to buy another loader to keep up with the extra work. I was looking at Volvo L90 around 8 to 10 years old. They cost around 46 - 50 grand. I can get a brand new 2009 Chinese loader, equivalent to an L90 for $48 grand. I am so tempted, anyone own one.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

This/
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/whhaizheng/offer-detailmGYQpAJHdEyt/Sell-Wheel-Loader.html


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Neige;622658 said:


> Hey guys, I need to buy another loader to keep up with the extra work. I was looking at Volvo L90 around 8 to 10 years old. They cost around 46 - 50 grand. I can get a brand new 2009 Chinese loader, equivalent to an L90 for $48 grand. I am so tempted, anyone own one.


Are these Changlin or something like that name? We had a demo of one and I thought they were junk but that was my opinion. The torque converters were incredibly slow and I thought the machine was never going to get going. I went from there too Ontrac and I test drove a new 644J and there was absolutely no way I would ever buy the Changlin no matter the price. JMO But maybe your talking about a different chinese loader also.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Or this?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Oh and when I went to there shop they had basically no parts and the guy was using his car for a service truck, this kind of scared me also.


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

Grandview you kill me. Where do you come up with that stuff!


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

This guy too, had no much for parts. I will go see 2 guys who bought them 3 months ago, and see what they think. I looked at JD and Volvo and Cat, nothing under 200 grand, to rich for my blood. Thanks for the feedback JD


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Neige;622686 said:


> This guy too, had no much for parts. I will go see 2 guys who bought them 3 months ago, and see what they think. I looked at JD and Volvo and Cat, nothing under 200 grand, to rich for my blood. Thanks for the feedback JD


Too rich for my blood also, thats's why we have farm loaders. Sorry if I came off harsh but I think you want product support the same as I do. I also jumped at the price that's why I went for the demo


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

nothing i hate worse or bothers me longer than when i dont buy something decent and then when i half to replace it its like you spend the money twice

this might be one of those deals

now if your talking gray market CAT stuff i wouldnt have a problem with it


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

Don't buy a Chineas loader they get enough of our money allredy. And all the stuff China makes is junk.


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

Grey iron is kinda....IFF'Y but is a much better than a china machine for part's avail. 

what's the name of it?. the korean's are starting to make some iron too, now if it was Japan it would be a differ story.

CaT is haveing their first auction in Des Moines on the 12th and i think it's going to be a heck of a good sale to be at,.......iron is so cheap right now it's not funny. 

if youre willing to spend $50g you can buy you a realy nice 928g with 3k hour's. 

pj


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## red07gsxr (Dec 22, 2007)

mercer_me;622769 said:


> Don't buy a Chineas loader they get enough of our money allredy. And all the stuff China makes is junk.


the japs make good cars but when it comes to everything else i try to buy america, nothing like a snap on wrench vs a chinese one.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

everything, and I do mean everything made in China is junk.


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## Woodland (Sep 17, 2005)

Neige;622658 said:


> Hey guys, I need to buy another loader to keep up with the extra work. I was looking at Volvo L90 around 8 to 10 years old. They cost around 46 - 50 grand. I can get a brand new 2009 Chinese loader, equivalent to an L90 for $48 grand. I am so tempted, anyone own one.


Come on, you know the answer to this...


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## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

With all the short cuts the Chinese have been caught making. I would not touch anything machine wise they make. Parts that are supposed to be chrome could just be chrome paint ! Hardened parts? it don't need no stinkin hardened parts !
That would be a lot of money to spend to have the machine break all the time.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Brand new 3 yd Changlins are in the mid 80's around here. I agree with Dave, after demo-they're Junk compared to Deere/Cat whatever. Zero dealer support. No thanks. Would you buy a FOTON tractor Paul? They're nice and cheap too.


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## mike33087 (Feb 9, 2005)

look at the hyundai loaders they run about 100 grand and are a pretty decent machine


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

powerjoke;622785 said:


> Grey iron is kinda....IFF'Y but is a much better than a china machine for part's avail.
> 
> pj


What is the term grey iron?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Neige;622658 said:


> Hey guys, I need to buy another loader to keep up with the extra work. I was looking at Volvo L90 around 8 to 10 years old. They cost around 46 - 50 grand. I can get a brand new 2009 Chinese loader, equivalent to an L90 for $48 grand. I am so tempted, anyone own one.


Paul, be a Hollander and not a Dutchman.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Ok, ok, ok. I hear you all. Thanks for your advice, I will forget about the Chinese loader, and see what I can find used around here. It really did sound to good to be true.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Neige;623504 said:


> Ok, ok, ok. I hear you all. Thanks for your advice, I will forget about the Chinese loader, and see what I can find used around here. It really did sound to good to be true.


Don't they have equipment auctions out your way? For that matter you could travel to auctions because of the potential savings. Other than a new IT28, the majority of our loaders are from auctions. Got a couple sweet "Rambo" loaders for cheap. Military spec'ed W-24's, very HD. Four W-14's in good shape for the price of one new one. 580's and many skid steers also.

Based on your avatar and what I gather you're well versed in iron. If you know what your looking at you can find great deals at equipment auctions.


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## KSikkema (Oct 7, 2008)

probably the reason they're so cheap is that they are tainted with lead or melamine!!! NOT GOOD!!


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

Japan makes good equipment.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

mercer_me;623817 said:


> Japan makes good equipment.


Well that's just freakin' awesome.

The problem is, he wasn't asking about Japanese heavy equipment, he was asking about CHINESE. While just across the Sea of Japan from each other, they are not the same country or nationality. Maybe you could try a geography lesson.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

KSikkema;623753 said:


> probably the reason they're so cheap is that they are tainted with lead or melamine!!! NOT GOOD!!


Ohh puleeeze.

(Ooops) I mean you're right. They are tainted......stay away! The less people at these auctions the better the deal. We've kept the camo paint scheme on the Rambo's too.......they are sweet beast's. ussmileyflag



mercer_me;623817 said:


> Japan makes good equipment.


Mercy me.......Dude!!! Who mentioned Japan?

:::: Don't think my keyboard can take another spew ::::


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

TCLA;623700 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Don't they have equipment auctions out your way? For that matter you could travel to auctions because of the potential savings. Other than a new IT28, the majority of our loaders are from auctions. Got a couple sweet "Rambo" loaders for cheap. Military spec'ed W-24's, very HD. Four W-14's in good shape for the price of one new one. 580's and many skid steers also.
> 
> ...





red07gsxr;622829 said:


> the japs make good cars but when it comes to everything else i try to buy america, nothing like a snap on wrench vs a chinese one.


As for the Japan comment, I think he was refering to this post.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Ok guys, Paull knows his stuff, he got sucked into the cheap prices like Johnny and I did and that's why he got excited. I can remember how excited I got when I heard the sales pitch and then the price and how sadly disappointed I was when I demoed one. Lets not make him feel stupid for thinking about buying one. Paul knows more about snow then most of us put together on here. JMO


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

I have also been tempted to buy chinese stuff... and have done so in fact. Some of it has been decent (my 3/4" drive socket set and impact gun have been excellent), others.... not so good.

Example:

I was looking for a gas powered chop saw to cut up scrap steel. Didnt want to fork out the cash for a new Stihl or Partner, as nice as they are, I'd have to haul scrap forever to pay for it. I looked at used ones and the prices they were going for even at auction were outrageous. Found a Chinese copy of a Partner (looks identical other than color) and it was less brand new than the others used, at auction.

This thing has been a nightmare. Runs great, very powerful, IF you can get it started. Recoil starter has broken three times (plastic part once that should be steel, cord twice), it leaks gasoline from the tank cap, and as a result of gas trickling while cutting (sparks) I've had it on fire twice. :angry:

And all this in just the occasional times I've used it. I haven't fixed the broken recoil now, its been a year or more.

Some things you can get away with. Power equipment, I just can't see it holding up.


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## Tommy10plows (Jan 1, 2001)

Another Chinese product under consideration-why?

First the chinese poison our children with lead based paints on toys.
Then they poison our pets with melamine in pet food as an extender.
Next, they poison babies with melamine in baby formula.
Have you ever bought anything at Harbor Freight made in China? It is absolutely junk.
This from a country that limits the number of children per couple. And serves your little four legged favorite animal that wags his tail when you come home at night after a long hard day and jumps up to lick your face, on the Chinese fast food menu, except when the world is watching the Olympics there, then they take it off the menu, but it is still available. 
Your $150.00 Niki's were made by somebody making 22 cents a day.
A customer service rep at a major computer company makes $1,800 - A YEAR to tell you what to do when your computer goes on the fritz- guess what country he is in?
McDonald's is considering oursourcing their drive up window order taking to a call center in a third world country- is that what you want?

A friend of mine works for __________ Shipping Lines. He tells me the ships come into the US from China at their deepest draft, loaded all the way down. They return with the shallowest draft, if it weren't for fuel and empty containers on board, they would literally sit on top of the water. 

Unfortunately, our government is being financed by the chinese who buy our treasury securities. 

The only thing America is exporting to China is our jobs. Take your desk, adding machine, and phone and containerize it and ship it to China.

Plowmen, and maybe the I.B.E.W. electrical linemen are the only non military people out on the roads in a storm. What is wrong with you guys that you would even consider a Chinese tractor? You can't find a used John Deere, Case, old Cat, Trojan, Dyna Hoe, Massey Ferguson, or Ford loader in your price range? Auctions are full of good buys now, and so is E-Bay. You would rather maybe have some guy who works out of his trunk run his rickshaw over to the job you are now busted out on because your China doll is broken down, to help you? With a shop manual you can't read, full of letters created by some guy wearing his silk jammies while on LSD?

If you want to buy a Chinese tractor and put it on American asphalt to service American customers, and get paid in American dollars you have no business on this forum. That is a disgrace. Hundreds of thousands of Americans are out of work because the only thing their fellow citizens considered when making a major purchase is "price". 

You shouldn't even be considered a plowman with the rest of these hard working men and women who bust their butts to keep their fellow Americans getting to work, getting to the hospital, or getting home to be with their families. I am ashamed to even consider that you are in this profession with all the others who hold this country and its machinery and the products made by their fellow Americans in such high regard.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Tommy10plows;625292 said:


> Another Chinese product under consideration-why?
> 
> First the chinese poison our children with lead based paints on toys.
> Then they poison our pets with melamine in pet food as an extender.
> ...


Who exactly are you talking too? A guy asks a question and it comes to this. I do agree with alot of your comments but it shouldn't be directed at people that havn't even purchased anything yet. JMO


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## plownoob (Aug 14, 2008)

derekbroerse;625183 said:


> I have also been tempted to buy chinese stuff... and have done so in fact. Some of it has been decent (my 3/4" drive socket set and impact gun have been excellent), others.... not so good.
> 
> Example:
> 
> ...


lol, I had a similar experiance. I went through THREE new demolition saws from harbor freight... The first one shot a flame out of the exhaust. the second one the starter rope broke after like the 3rd pull. The third one the muffler broke off and the exhaust melted off the belt housing, which I noticed was compeltely made out of plastic. I at least got my moneys worth out of it. Would have cost more to rent a saw from home depot.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

We once bought what looked like a Honda Generator-super cheap. Left us pissing icycles one night in the middle of our October hunting trip in Thunder Bay. Good thing we had a North American made backup.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Tommy10plows;625292 said:


> Another Chinese product under consideration-why?
> 
> First the chinese poison our children with lead based paints on toys.
> Then they poison our pets with melamine in pet food as an extender.
> ...


Ummmm, Tommy, technically he isn't American, he's Canadian. That and what JD said. Maybe you ought to read the entire thread before going off on some rant.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Thanks again for all your comments. I want to thank those who stood up for me, I really appreciate it.
I do not have the time right now to fully comment on Tommy10plow. I will say, you have some valid points, and the rest well i will get back to you.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Tommy10plows;625292 said:


> Another Chinese product under consideration-why?
> 
> First the chinese poison our children with lead based paints on toys.
> Then they poison our pets with melamine in pet food as an extender.
> ...


Don't sugar coat it, buddy, tell us how you really feel!!!


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

grandview;622670 said:


> Or this?


bahaha, whats a shanghai caterpillar? really a cat or some BS to make it sound good?

I guess anything new would work, but which is more reliable and more worth it, probably the 10yr old machines made in the us lol.

Chinese and indian junk are starting to take over in the US because theyre so cheap.. but cheap they are, who wants that if its not reliable and throw away stuff after 5 years? sure anything would get the job done now, but in 5 years when you sell the volvo , still worth 25k? The china one probably couldnt give away, just blew 48k.


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

haha Tommy thats an awesome response ! lol

JD, yeah i know its sorta beat around the bush, but all things considered, i mean would you relaly want a chinese tractor? Theres 100 brands over here already that are proven, why take that risk?

fyi, we just bought a new John Deere 4720 cab tractor with a ton of options, id have to say thats what i wanted anyway, but a small percentage of my purchase was based on the fact that the machine was build/made in the USA. I would not even consider a mahindra or tackachuchi tractor brand, maybe theyre "almost" as good or cheaper, but we live in the USA, we do work here, we earn and employ our money and employees here and pay taxes, why buy the foreign stuff?

Then again... HOW many guys on here own toyotas, honduhs and nissans and every other variety of a asian brand car? Probably lots, but theyll all say in their defense that their pos import is MADE here, like that really matters. EVERY time you buy a foreign product, your dollars are going to another country, with the huge offset of money pouring over to the asian countries by the day, and everyone on here *****ing because theyre loosing accounts, cant make as much per hour yadda yadda, your shooting your own foot. If business in the USA was booming, we would all be doing better. Keep buying your new toyota tundras and nissan tidycraps and keep thinking you have something better than your Ford/Chevy/Dodge boys though.:realmad:


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Ramairfreak98ss;626589 said:


> haha Tommy thats an awesome response ! lol
> 
> JD, yeah i know its sorta beat around the bush, but all things considered, i mean would you relaly want a chinese tractor? Theres 100 brands over here already that are proven, why take that risk?
> 
> ...


Well I guess Paul should send back the 14 Kubota tractors he owns then. I do beleive in what your saying but Paul is very good for the economy and he is a very smart man, he doesn't need to be attacked by people that will not buy in there life time what Paul buys in a year. Everyone yaps about buying stuff made in China but where do you think all our electronics come from and most of our clothes. If you won't buy a chinese loader you should actually look around your house and get rid of everything else made outside the US. BTW I bought a Honda for my wife as they are made 40 min from my house and Honda puts alot back into the economy here. Also Toyota is building a very large plant in a small town about 1 hour from me and they are hiring 1200 people, should I not buy a Toyo then?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JD Dave;626787 said:


> Well I guess Paul should send back the 14 Kubota tractors he owns then. I do beleive in what your saying but Paul is very good for the economy and he is a very smart man, he doesn't need to be attacked by people that will not buy in there life time what Paul buys in a year. Everyone yaps about buying stuff made in China but where do you think all our electronics come from and most of our clothes. If you won't buy a chinese loader you should actually look around your house and get rid of everything else made outside the US. BTW I bought a Honda for my wife as they are made 40 min from my house and Honda puts alot back into the economy here. Also Toyota is building a very large plant in a small town about 1 hour from me and they are hiring 1200 people, should I not buy a Toyo then?


So Dave, must be you feel like the monkeys who throw poop today? 

Not sure why you're bothering to point out facts. Sort of silly.


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## red07gsxr (Dec 22, 2007)

JD Dave;625317 said:


> Who exactly are you talking too? A guy asks a question and it comes to this. I do agree with alot of your comments but it shouldn't be directed at people that havn't even purchased anything yet. JMO


i second what you are saying...he didnt even buy it. just asking how they were


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## Tommy10plows (Jan 1, 2001)

*And another thing*

I don't care if the guy is from Canada or not.

NAFTA the "North American Free Trade Agreement" works for everybody but America. It should be called "Not a Freakin' Thing for America" . Mexico and Canada prosper at the expense of American jobs. I thought at one time that Mr. Obama would do something about it, except he chickened out and had an aide issue a press conference stating that he really didn't mean it and NAFTA is safe.

Just today, General Motors and Ford announce that they are running low on cash, and could actually be out of cash by the second quarter of 2009. These are both monster companies with plants in Canada, Mexico and other countries. Out of cash - Is that what you want?

Are your Ford retiree friends happy that their Ford stock is $1.95 a share, or your GM friends their stock at about $4.00? You guys that have these "what should I buy Ford or GM ?" discussions, might be left with two companies that might be out of business in a year. Are you happy with that TV ad featuring that Dr. Z. now that Daimler Benz gutted Chrysler, and won't loan them a dime now, and is selling their remaining 20% share in Chrysler? Have you even bothered to open up your brokerage account statements to see what your own retirement fund is worth? Or are you afraid your wife will find out how little it is worth now and she'll crack you across the forehead with a Chinese frying pan?

Are you glad that China is funding the largest share of the American economy now by buying our debt?

You think this is about one lousy tractor? It is not. Anybody who thinks otherwise should take a look at their local economy. Canada has long enjoyed peace and prosperity because it happens to be located on and carried on the shoulders of America. For someone to come on this forum and ask Americans if he should buy a Chinese tractor is ridiculous.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Tommy10plows;628196 said:


> I don't care if the guy is from Canada or not.
> 
> NAFTA the "North American Free Trade Agreement" works for everybody but America. It should be called "Not a Freakin' Thing for America" . Mexico and Canada prosper at the expense of American jobs. I thought at one time that Mr. Obama would do something about it, except he chickened out and had an aide issue a press conference stating that he really didn't mean it and NAFTA is safe.
> 
> ...


In many ways i agree with you. But the change needs to be made in policy and on a congressional level. Before that we need to decide how we, or if we can continue to support the standard of living in the united states without buying so many foreign goods and depreciating our dollar value. It was always thought that the more our dollar devalues the better chance of finding a balance between imports and exports since it encourages american exports having a devalued dollar. Unfortunatley we have learned that we will never devalue our currency enough to balance the trade deficit because to achieve this our standard of living would drop significantly and unemployement would have to skyrocket first before the dollar is devalued enough. Plus the lower value would drive crude oil so high that we could not have economic stability anyway,.
just buying american isnt something you can make everyone do, nor do i think it is quite that simple.
But yes. The united states is in some trouble now and something has to change (the policies), because we cant keep our standard of living and compete globlally. The idea that we ever could was a myth..


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Tommy10plows;628196 said:


> Canada has long enjoyed peace and prosperity because it happens to be located on and carried on the shoulders of America.


Nobody "carries" us. Canada has worked as a partner to the US in many ways.... you think you carry us??? Why don't you ask yourself where a large percentage of your electricity comes from for example?

You're going off on a rant, and now you're starting to talk stupid and get off topic. Don't try and turn this into a pissing match. He asked if a product was any good, we all said no. This wasn't an economic debate.

tymusic tymusic tymusic so there!!!


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Tommy10plows;628196 said:


> I don't care if the guy is from Canada or not.
> 
> I'm sure you don't. I could be an American, or even your neighbor, but if I don't think like you I'm against America.
> 
> ...


Its a good think I know that there are only a few Americans with narrow minded, ignorant, bigoted views like yours. I thought this was a plowsite forum for fellow plowers to learn from each other. Maybe you should start the Tommy10plows think like me or get out forum. No foreigners allowed.

Tommy you have gone to far on this one. Anything I say I know will make no difference to how you think. You blame everyone for all your problems. Years ago I was told when you point your finger at someone to blame, look at the rest of your hand you got 3 fingers pointing back.

Because of NAFTA I invested 214 grand US in a USA made snow melter. I invested another 150 grand US in USA made snow plows. I invested 35 grand US in USA made treated salt products. Oh I almost forgot, I invested 25 grand US in USA made driveway markers. So Tommy what have you contributed to the American economy.
Wow after seeing all that I invested in US made products, Canadians will start blaming me for all our economic woes. I was going to buy a 5 grand US, in a USA made ice control sprayer, but I think ill buy a Canadian made one.

Thanks to the rest of my friends who stood up for me. Just so you know I bought a used Volvo L90 loader.

Thanks from a proud tymusic, member of SIMA, and Plowsite.
Paul


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Neige;628495 said:


> Its a good think I know that there are only a few Americans with narrow minded, ignorant, bigoted views like yours. I thought this was a plowsite forum for fellow plowers to learn from each other. Maybe you should start the Tommy10plows think like me or get out forum. No foreigners allowed.
> 
> Tommy you have gone to far on this one. Anything I say I know will make no difference to how you think. You blame everyone for all your problems. Years ago I was told when you point your finger at someone to blame, look at the rest of your hand you got 3 fingers pointing back.
> 
> ...


Well said Paul and can I borrow some money. LOL


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

i think i found the difference between Neige and me 

i would have just told tommy told to f off LOL


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

Neige;628495 said:


> Its a good think I know that there are only a few Americans with narrow minded, ignorant, bigoted views like yours. I thought this was a plowsite forum for fellow plowers to learn from each other. Maybe you should start the Tommy10plows think like me or get out forum. No foreigners allowed.
> 
> Tommy you have gone to far on this one. Anything I say I know will make no difference to how you think. You blame everyone for all your problems. Years ago I was told when you point your finger at someone to blame, look at the rest of your hand you got 3 fingers pointing back.
> 
> ...


Great post Paul. tymusic

Why some feel the need to attack people on this site is beyond me.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Neige;628495 said:


> It
> Wow after seeing all that I invested in US made products, Canadians will start blaming me for all our economic woes.
> 
> Thanks from a proud tymusic, member of SIMA, and Plowsite.


It's all your fault, Paul.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Nafta doesnt work. It never did. The u.s. has been running a trade deficit since 1976 steadily and even before that on some years. Since nafta i dont think we have had one year that we havent run into a deficit with canada or mexico. Early this year our deficit with canada hit almost 20 billion FOR THE QUARTER (look it up).
As far as canada, sorry to say but i think we do carry canada to some extent. Not only from the deficits but also from the jobs created in canada by us. For the guy above that says canada carries itself.. I suggest you do some research. Our economy basically carries yours. You drive through canada it looks just like the u.s. now. Might as well be in many ways. Your close by, we got alaska right on the other side of you and we like canadians tymusic. Far as the power we would have taken it long ago if it was such a issue. We do cover you with our military, offer free protection, give canadians more jobs than they return, and flood you economy with our money. But hey we think canadians are great! The quotes from tommy ten plows seem a little misdirected but he is not wrong at all. If our economy here continues to suffer you will see more and more people with similiar strong views and a sense of protectionism forming. I dont think we could close the borders here and self sustain but i think we could come pretty close if push came to shove. If it happens hopefully our canadian friends join us. Not mexico though. Frig mexico. No one believes the u.s. will ever do it (biggest economy and superpower and all) but if it finally crashes down i think you will see us huddling around our corn fields and nukes. Given our past history in our country i wouldnt be surprised by any sudden drastic move.
Neige.. In case no one here has done it yet. Thanks for buying american. 
And at least you didnt by the chinese wheel loader.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Tommy,

If it makes you feel better here is what is probably coming down the line for u.s. trade.

with buffet on Obama's cabinet and a push to get this through in a democrat controlled senate you will probably see it happen. It will be the first step of many.
Welcome to fair trade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_Certificates


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

I'm not even going to get drawn into an arguement on this. I have far more important things to do.


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## Tommy10plows (Jan 1, 2001)

You guys have it all wrong. I have nothing against Canadians. I do have a problem with coming on a forum looking for support for a decision to buy a piece of equipment made in country that: 

limits the amount of children you can have, 

treats the developmentally disabled child worse than you can ever imagine

has your dog on the breakfast menu, 

poisons children through lead based toys, 

poisons pets and babies with melamine extenders in food products,

builds structurally deficient schools in earthquake prone areas and fails to warn the village

takes dissenting political opinions and carts the dissenting people off to insane asylums,

runs tanks through the square in oppression of its people, 

takes whatever it wants out of the ocean in terms of seafood, which the rest of the world calls

shark finings, whaling, and catch by-product full of your favorite mammals 

like Ninja Turtles and Flipper, and dumps them DEAD, back into the ocean,

dumps chemical by-products with names not even a scientist can produce, 

chemicals far worse than mercury, cadmium and lead dumped in its tributary waters and on land in remote villages, 

and turns out a facade of an Olympics show in light of all this to convince the world it is happy happy happy times in China. 


If you Canadian guys are happy the the Ford plant in Windsor is in the shape it is in, putting CANADIANS out of work, 
that is your choice. 

You younger Canadian guys may not remember some french guy named DeGaulle who caused an uproar when he visited Montreal and caused an international uproar when he shouted "long live a free Quebec!

And I rather enjoyed Maggie Trudeau when she would run on the night circuit with Mick Jagger and others. 


And the Canadian health care plan, services for everyone and all the tests you need, without regard of costs, is a great means of caring for its people, even though my Canadian friends complain a bit about the wait sometimes to see a specialist, I also like the Canadian drug prices, which are set unlike the US, by not allowing the drug companies to include costs of marketing, drug reps, free hand outs and a host of other things that drive up the cost of care in America. The fact of the matter is when it comes to drug prices in the US, I can buy the exact same common drug for veterinary use as for human use, for about 1/3 the cost. Canada does not tolerate that nonsense. 

China is another matter. That is country that is no friend of the free world anywhere. To contribute to their economy by buying a piece of equipment made there and looking for emotional support on this forum is ridiculous. 

The only way China can compete in the world economy is through price, and they do that by repressing their people and building inferior products for EXPORT, that's right EXPORT to other countries. You don't see that JUNK on Chinese jobs, you see Caterpiller, Cummins, or Canadian mining equipment on THEIR government jobs. 

The study of world history does not stop with last year's left over equipment models. It is not bigotry, ignorance or narrow mindedness. You toss those words around in a smoke screen to avoid the deeper issue of buying from China. Study the entire picture, and decide for yourself if China is country that you should do business with. 


For me, I did, and the decision is obvious.


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

Paul already said a couple posts up that he bought a used Volvo loader. Let it go.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Neige;625519 said:


> Thanks again for all your comments. I want to thank those who stood up for me, I really appreciate it.
> I do not have the time right now to fully comment on Tommy10plow. I will say, you have some valid points, and the rest well i will get back to you.


You see Tommy, I agreed to some of your points in your first post. When you posted again and slammed me and my country, well I called it as I saw it. There was no smoke or mirrors, I still think it was narrow minded and more.

I believe this forum is all about sharing information. I have been looking for a used loader for some time now. Most are going for around 50 grand and are 10 years old, tires at 50% needs paint, and who knows how long the transmission will last. Last week I see a New Chinese loader for sale with a Perkins motor for 48 grand. It sounds to good to be true so ask on here what you guys think. 100 % of you said it was junk. So I drop the idea, and continue looking.
I will admit Tommy after what you posted about China, I was embarrassed to even have thought about it. My 14 year old daughter is going to India, in Feb. to film a documentary on how children there live. I know it will all change our lives forever.
I will not get into politics, this is not the place, nor do I have the time. I will say, we both live in great countries. I believe that our partnership has helped each other. I truly believe we are stronger unity then divided. We can learn so much from each other.
Lastly I do not believe Canada has any part to play in your present economic woes. You best look at your banking, and your leaders for that one.
This will be last I will comment on this subject.
Paul


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Okay,

Group hug everyone. 


we are all friends here!

(mostly?)


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## Tommy10plows (Jan 1, 2001)

"Lastly I do not believe Canada has any part to play in your present economic woes. You best look at your banking, and your leaders for that one."

I agree with you on that point. Our current banking situation is the result of lax enforcement of existing laws, and a failure of the mortgage system from top to bottom. The mortgage industry wrote paper on serial killers. If you pass the mirror test (you could fog a mirror) you got a mortgage.

Wall Street got involved and re-sold this mortgage paper to Mr. and Mrs. Middle America for their Retirement Fund. The brokers kept their fee and the public who invested got burned, and the banks now go to the government for a bail out. All those in the chain should be forced to disgorge their bonuses, and company profits for this. 

The fact of the matter is you cannot take bad mortgage paper and wash it 100 times and expect it to be good paper. It is as if your truck ran into a wall of dog manure and it froze on it overnight and you try to clean it off in the middle of winter. It is not going to come clean. 

Hope your daughter has a safe trip to India and back. Letting a child go that far on her own without Mom and Dad on her side must be pretty unnerving. Thanks to the internet though you will be able to keep up with her on a regular basis!

Regards,

T10plows


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

we went from chinese wheel loaders to bad mortgages


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## Tommy10plows (Jan 1, 2001)

*Green world and China*

And since we are on the subject, China is the world's worst producer of Carbon Dioxide emissions. It beats the U S of A hands down.

Any experts want to comment on global warming, snow, polar ice caps and carbon dioxide?

So much for the Chinese 2008 Olympics and their earth friendly "Green" facade.


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## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

The news talked about the Chinese version of the EPA. Yeah Right, they tell industry in China " Hey your poisoning too many people, tone it down a bit ". Industry has just transferred the pollution to another area in the world. They don't have the controls and standards that we and Canada have. So by paying $5 for 8 hours of work and not paying for pollution controls and hazardous material disposal. They can under cut us on price and quality. But a lot of people just look at cost, not at the quality or future repair costs.
I do painting on the side. I found a nice 250 watt work light for $5 at Home Depot.
The problems are: it has a 6 inch cord, extension cords aim it not me, It has no switch, so I have to unplug it to turn off. Once it got hot, the fumes put off by the paint about gagged me.


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## Tommy10plows (Jan 1, 2001)

Well guys, in addition to poisoned baby food, poisoned dog food, substandard school construction in earth quake zones, here is another example of Chinese manufacturing ability.

Now they can poison you right in your own brand new home here in the good old USA.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/p...blems_may_just_be_beginning&template=printart

Toxic Drywall used in thousands of new homes since 2006, gassing off sulfer to eat your copper pipes, your air conditioner, and your own set of lungs.

This is a major issue just coming to the surface. If you have respiratory problems and you are in a fairly new home, or recent renovation, look to your chinese walls for the solution. It will scare the snow ouf of you.

Tommy10plows


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## SnowedUnder (Apr 2, 2008)

What do politics have to do with the question? Besides, a LOT of the COMPONENTs and even some complete machines are coming in under old brand names. 

Neige....

My expereince with buying VERY LARGE Chinese machines (NOT loaders) is that you better have the ability to deal with the service issues yourself. I have a complete machine shop and the engineering expertise so if one of them fails on me, it's not a problem to get back up. In my industry, even some of the German brand names have gone to China to set up factories and control quality. 

For example, I would buy a Chinese fork lift for half what it cost me to buy any other brand name. If it breaks down, I have others that can do it's job. It may be an adventure to find some small detail parts but for things like brakes, starters, etc, they can be cross referenced with existing designs. This is not by accident. The Chinese know that service is a big issue so they tend to copy existing low tech mass technology. 

I had someone offer me a $12,000 skid steer. I'm not interested BUT if I could get a small 2 ton loader and sell one of my forklifts, I would do it. It would cover my outdoor forklift needs AND do other things that the forlklifts can't do. 

There are DOZENS of loader manufacturers in China. Not all of them have are same quality....or work the same.

Let me know through pm if you are going further with this. 

So may answer to you would be....

IF you have backup equipment, try one of them. I would NOT buy one if it is the only thing that I can depend on. On the other hand, they are not the junk that some in here like to think or wish them to be.


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## pelt35 (Oct 6, 2003)

*Loader*

Niege, you should go to machinerytrader.com you can narrow your search to brand , model and locale. Quite a few loaders for sale in your area. Check it out, good luck


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Its ok I got one in Nov., nice machine here is a pic. Will be getting snow tires for it next year.


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## Eronningen (Dec 20, 2008)

Nice loader. I don't have any myself. How will snow tires help? Are you ahving traction issues now? I guess I assumed that loaders like that could darn near run slicks with the weight of the machine on them? I suppose at the end of a long push its got its hands full?


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## SnowedUnder (Apr 2, 2008)

Neige;623504 said:


> Ok, ok, ok. I hear you all. Thanks for your advice, I will forget about the Chinese loader, and see what I can find used around here. It really did sound to good to be true.


So much for all this free advice! LOL!

How big is your plow? How far/much can you push with that? How far can you push/accumulate 2 inches and 6 inches?


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## unimogr (Feb 18, 2004)

*Gray Market*

For pricing on gray market you can use this site. It's kinda like Trader On Line but for Europe.

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?scopeId=AT&lang=en#3

To get current exchange rates:
www.xe.com 
Today one Euro equals $1.28


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## 7.3 Plower (Jan 19, 2009)

Congrats on the new Volvo, Paul.

I'm not going to write a book like a certain someone here has, but let me ask you this.

Have you ever heard "Made in China" and thought "Wow! That must be a high quality item!"


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## cantoo (Dec 27, 1999)

Neige, I hope you are going to buy American made tires for that rig. We're going to Daytona in a couple of weeks for Bike Week and this thread has made me rethink this. Maybe I should spending my money here in Canada instead? I could put chains on my bike, nice warm snow suit and slip over to Quebec for some riding.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Neige;739435 said:


> Its ok I got one in Nov., nice machine here is a pic. Will be getting snow tires for it next year.


what the hell do you have attached to the front of that machine lol


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## TPC Services (Dec 15, 2005)

I now it would be a hell of a drive but there's a contractor in Omaha,NEB thats going out of business and has 3 cat wheel loaders, I know one's a 970G can't remeber the others, it's in craigslist under Omaha, neb


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

You guys have too much time on your hands maybe you should just go outside and duke it out.....LOL.

I second redmans ? what is that funky pusher??


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

That my friends are a jobber plow, meaning home made. We got if the other loader 2 years ago. It has a quick attach on in inside to back drag, there is also a quick attach on the side so you can drop the hinged panel and plow under trailers. Its 14 feet with 6 foot wings. It might not be pretty, but it gets the job done.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

cantoo;739842 said:


> Neige, I hope you are going to buy American made tires for that rig. We're going to Daytona in a couple of weeks for Bike Week and this thread has made me rethink this. Maybe I should spending my money here in Canada instead? I could put chains on my bike, nice warm snow suit and slip over to Quebec for some riding.


Hey if your coming up to Canada, the snowmobiling is just awesome this year. With the exchange rate these days, your ahead around 25% + our government will reimburse all the sales tax you paid while visiting.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Eronningen;739439 said:


> Nice loader. I don't have any myself. How will snow tires help? Are you ahving traction issues now? I guess I assumed that loaders like that could darn near run slicks with the weight of the machine on them? I suppose at the end of a long push its got its hands full?


Tires make a huge difference, you would not think so, but they really do.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Neige....what's up with the pusher in the background of your first pic?

Is it worn that bad or did you fab the sides to maintain that angle for some reason?


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## nosnownogo (Feb 29, 2008)

*fashion centre*

lots of good equipment . Paul do you also have the fashion centre contract or just the wally world / c tire side of the road


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

TCLA;741918 said:


> Neige....what's up with the pusher in the background of your first pic?
> 
> Is it worn that bad or did you fab the sides to maintain that angle for some reason?


Is that the new protech that you can flip over and run rubber or steel trip Paul?


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

That other pusher does look like a flip over unit, and I like the idea od the hinged side to get under trailers, that is very cool!!!


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

TCLA;741918 said:


> Neige....what's up with the pusher in the background of your first pic?
> 
> Is it worn that bad or did you fab the sides to maintain that angle for some reason?


Nope its a Pro ech switch blade


nosnownogo;742100 said:


> lots of good equipment . Paul do you also have the fashion centre contract or just the wally world / c tire side of the road


Just the wally world side, excluding the home depot. 


JD Dave;742101 said:


> Is that the new protech that you can flip over and run rubber or steel trip Paul?


Yes it is


forestfireguy;742118 said:


> That other pusher does look like a flip over unit, and I like the idea od the hinged side to get under trailers, that is very cool!!!


We thought so too. Will try and get some pics of all the ways we can hook it up


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

those switchbacks are nice


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Neige does it right.  :salute:

We will be dealing with our older pushers for a while.........unfortunately they will last forever.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

TCLA;742669 said:


> Neige does it right.  :salute:
> 
> We will be dealing with our older pushers for a while.........unfortunately they will last forever.


Sort of ticks you off doesn't it?

I have the same problem.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

haha my old red ones, are home built, hav been around since the mid-90's before i even started


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## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

Tommy10plows;625292 said:


> Another Chinese product under consideration-why?
> 
> First the chinese poison our children with lead based paints on toys.
> Then they poison our pets with melamine in pet food as an extender.
> ...


I beleive the OP is Canadian anyway.


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## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

Superior L & L;623306 said:


> What is the term grey iron?


The term "grey iron" refers to equipment imported into the US that was built for another country or region. Many do not meet EPA standards and may not come equiped with the same components. Often it is difficult to get parts for these models in the US.


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## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

I am getting into this thread a little late so I am not sure if this will help. There is a plow site member (IDOCTORTREES) in Montana selling a Volvo L70 loader. I know it's not quite as big as a 90 but it is fairly new and only has about 1k hours. He is selling it for about 100k. This is a fair price. I think I saw it in the equipment for sale section.

BTW we all have our opinions about buying foreign sourced goods and how our politics affect our respective economies etc. Many posts have valid points and in my opinion some do not. I for one do not feel the need to attack those that I do not subscribe to. I notice myself getting tense as I read through those that do. We as with all societies have our problems and I hope we will over come them and prosper. We also live in a place where people have died to protect our right to have and voice our opinions. Let us not lose our perspective. This luxury comes with responsibility. I feel that we can have respect for one another and our respective opinions and can make posts that reflect that respect. I feel that anything less than that diminishes the effotrs and sacrifices made by those who protect these freedoms. Make your posts as you would make your comment to someone who is in your presence and not like you would an "unknown object" that is a million miles away. I am done now-my soap box has broken under the weight of my statement. LOL.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

i'll tell you what though, watch out about volvo's...they are extremely light. had one for 6 months and hated the damn thing because it was too light and couldn't push a 14 ft pusher, had an L70


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

redman6565;742799 said:


> i'll tell you what though, watch out about volvo's...they are extremely light. had one for 6 months and hated the damn thing because it was too light and couldn't push a 14 ft pusher, had an L70


The L 90 weighs just over 3000 kg more than a L 70, bringing it in around 12400 kg. That's a 16 foot Pro Tech, and it handles it with no problem. Must admit the one with the regular tires is having problems, that's why I want winters for next year. Lastly we have only had experience with Volvo, so my view is limited.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

really? i had an L70 and that struggled like a *******, the only loader i've ever considered loading it's tires...i mean i have a JD 544E (24,000 lbs) and that pushes a 16 ft like nothing.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

redman6565;743869 said:


> really? i had an L70 and that struggled like a *******, the only loader i've ever considered loading it's tires...i mean i have a JD 544E (24,000 lbs) and that pushes a 16 ft like nothing.


Seeing that the L 70 comes in at 20,400 lbs I quess makes it a light weight. I am sure that 4000 lbs can make a big difference, as well as quality of tires.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

they were nice machine internally though, i guess if the L90 works, i wouldn't shy away from them, it sucks you have to buy such a large loader to get the quality you need


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

redman6565;742799 said:


> i'll tell you what though, watch out about volvo's...they are extremely light. had one for 6 months and hated the damn thing because it was too light and couldn't push a 14 ft pusher, had an L70


I think it could be you Redmann because L 70's around here push 14 ft boxes all day long in any condition.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

they are a light machine, much lighter than they should be.

volvo L70 weighs about 20,000 lbs and has a 3 yrd bucket
j.d. 544 weighs about 24,000 lbs and has a 2.5 yrd bucket

my j.d. pushes a 16ft pusher, with .5" thick steel, homemade and re-enforced, that volvo struggled with a 14ft pusher, with 3/8" thick steel.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

As promised more pics of that jobber plow. Its not pretty but it is funcional.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

not a bad set up neige


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

I like the backdrag option


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

is that rubber edge or steel neige?


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Steel with no trip. If I were to take a pic sideways, you would see at least a 6 inch curve in it. That plow has done its fair share, we kept it as a spare, but the guys like it to much they keep using it.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Love the jobber plow Neige!


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

haha well thats not a nad thing


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

correction *bad


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

redman6565;744248 said:


> haha well thats not a nad thing




What do nads have to do with it?

Wrong thread? LMAO


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;744254 said:


> What do nads have to do with it?
> 
> Wrong thread? LMAO


haha no look above, correction *bad


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

im a crappy typer


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

redman6565;745111 said:


> im a crappy typer


I saw it, just wanted to give you grief. 

And no, you just made a mistake, plenty of others that fit the bill of crappy typers.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

yessir


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## daveklein1 (Dec 3, 2008)

*Buy American*



Neige;622658 said:


> Hey guys, I need to buy another loader to keep up with the extra work. I was looking at Volvo L90 around 8 to 10 years old. They cost around 46 - 50 grand. I can get a brand new 2009 Chinese loader, equivalent to an L90 for $48 grand. I am so tempted, anyone own one.


You can come pick this one up for $42,000, has all service records and is in great shape.ussmileyflag


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

A 980 for $42K? 

Sounds like one of those ebay\craigslist scams unless it's got a million hours on it.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

what's the catch?


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## daveklein1 (Dec 3, 2008)

*980C for $42,000*



Mark Oomkes;753433 said:


> A 980 for $42K?
> 
> Sounds like one of those ebay\craigslist scams unless it's got a million hours on it.


I bought the loader 2 years ago. I only use it for snow removal. We have only put 200 hours on it. The meter reads 10400 hours. I bought it from a very reputable company in Denver Colo. There is no play in any of the pins, including tight center pins. The machine has been well maintained. If you look close at the pictures it needs a full set of rubber. I have previous service records, would be a great tractor for anyone interested. We haven't had the snow to support having it. Thanks for the reply, I hope this information is helpful.ussmileyflag


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

want to meet me hafl way across the country? haha


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

send me a PM, and we will talk.


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## daveklein1 (Dec 3, 2008)

Neige;753733 said:


> send me a PM, and we will talk.


I am sorry I don't understand PM ussmileyflag


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

daveklein1;753745 said:


> I am sorry I don't understand PM ussmileyflag


Click on his name

In the drop downwindow you will find a place to send Neige a "Private Message"

He wants to talk about the loader in private


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## Tommy10plows (Jan 1, 2001)

That is a bit out of my league in size, but I was wondering what a set of 4 tires for something like that would run? Anybody know?

I like to check auction prices on this stuff, www.rbauction.com

I drove by their lot in Orlando area a few weeks ago, it was loaded to the gills with equipment. We need to get that iron back on the job somewhere. This stimulus plan better kick in quickly. We need new bridges, roads, mass transportation, and sewer plants in this country.

Maybe they will re-activate the WPA to get things moving again.

We need it.


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## DGODGR (Nov 30, 2008)

Good rubber for a 3yd loader (about 1/2 to 1/3 the size of the 980 in question) is about $10k US. Yes that is $2,500.00 per tire. I would think the 980 tires come in at about 15 to 20k. That is why you will see many loaders (like this one ) running rubber well beyond the disapearance of the tread. The carcass is thick and there may be some good tire life left on these tires. By the way 10,000 hours is a lot of hours but this machine still looks like it has a lot of work left in it. I have a Cat 416 TLB with almost 12,000 hours on it and it still works like a champ.


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## daveklein1 (Dec 3, 2008)

Tommy10plows;753957 said:


> That is a bit out of my league in size, but I was wondering what a set of 4 tires for something like that would run? Anybody know?
> 
> I like to check auction prices on this stuff, www.rbauction.com
> 
> ...


Tires cost about 15,000 to 20,000 depending on how you go about it. You can put tires on the front to get through the season, or you can buy them all at once. This is a new tire cost, you can buy retreads.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Tommy10plows;753957 said:


> This stimulus plan better kick in quickly. We need new bridges, roads, mass transportation, and sewer plants in this country.
> 
> Maybe they will re-activate the WPA to get things moving again.
> 
> We need it.


Thread hijack--again.

You're joking right?

Since when has the government been a job creator?

The WPA? You do realize FDR was only extending the Depression and the only thing that got us out of it was WW2, right?


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Oh no here we go again. I think I will just watch this one from the side lines.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

how'd did we go from chinese wheel loaders to the great depression?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

redman6565;754346 said:


> how'd did we go from chinese wheel loaders to the great depression?


It's plowsite, why not?

Ask Tommy, he's the one that brought up WPA.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

can we start talking about flying cars and flying plow trucks? maybe laser attachments so you fly by your lot and laser the asphalt till it heats up and melts?


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## OldMarine (Nov 20, 2007)

call your local service tech and ask what he sees less of. It can be a matter of how long will the unit be down vs. cost. Also i bet CAT is selling cheep due to their layoffs


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## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

Back to Chinese Wheel Loader's.
It's time to buy American if you can find it !
You buy the loader, buy American made tires. You need parts buy American made filters and parts.
The more money we keep in the country the quicker WE recover our country's economy !


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