# Subcontracting



## drjess (Feb 4, 2006)

Read a post here about someone looking to get started and it was recommended that they start out subcontracting for a reputable contractor.

Next winter will be the first for us and I was wondering how one would go about obtaining subcontracting jobs.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Jessica


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Check out the employment/networking forums here.
Paper, and word of mouth. Word of mouth is best cause you get to find out who pays and who dont. 
PLeassssssssssseeeee stay away from big mangement companys, do some research here about them. They dont pay there subs. What you should do is find someone hourly and work on a team, so you can learn something. 
I do know a few guys from your state on the other site, if you need help.
Oh and the president of Sima Alan is from your state as well, he employs alot of subs.
Good luck

Todd


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## drjess (Feb 4, 2006)

thank you for your input...much appreciated!

perhaps i should try to get a hold of the prez to see if he can guide us in our new adventure.


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## Tri-County INC. (Dec 5, 2005)

*subcontractors*

depends were you are, we place ad in paper and they come running, however most want some experince before they put you in a commercail lot. we require at least 3 year commercial and must have at least a 8.5ft plow with at least 3/4 ton truck. pay them 35 dollars per hour, must supply own gas or diesil, this is due to the modificatons some make to the truck. Operators are even more stictly montiored, at least 5 years commercial plowing experience, with 3 years with us.


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

just look in the paper and phone book, start calling all the snow removal company's you can. at least one will be looking for new drivers .

don't plow for less then $60 an hour. it's not worth it ! 
i work for Snow Systems and i make more money in 1 1/2 hour's doing driveways then i do working 12 hours for them. < i get paid $60 an hour BTW >
add in gas , insurance , maintenance and taxes. i probably make $15 - $20 an hour once all the bills are paid.
also make sure you have insurance !!! it's not terribly expensive but when something finely does happen your covered .

other then that , it's all just a matter of getting out there and getting your feet wet .


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

Tri-County INC. said:


> we require at least 3 year commercial and must have at least a 8.5ft plow with at least 3/4 ton truck. pay them 35 dollars per hour, must supply own gas or diesel.


Kind of low in price there IMHO for what your asking.

Start out the 1st year getting a few drives on your own maybe your local 7-11. Get to know your trucks limits and how to plow. What I did when starting out was look in the paper for who does plow removal in your town. Call them and ask if they need any drivers/contractors. Do not expect top dollar yet even if it is your 2nd year. Get some bigger driveways maybe a couple of 7-11's or a open hotel lot for yourself. Your 3rd year you either got it or you don't. If you are any good the guy that contracted you the year before will call you back and word of mouth will pick you up a couple more on your own.

One thing I wish I started do'ing earlier is salting. Get yourself a tailgate spreader and start learning how much it takes for different sized lots and thinking about adding that to your own service accounts as well.

Plow+truck=decent pay for decent work
Plow+salter+truck = more pay for not much more work.

I wouldn't't even load salt in the back for $35 bucks a hour so stay away from guys that only want to pay you that. At least $50 a hour starting and up to $100 a hour with experience and a salter.


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## Tri-County INC. (Dec 5, 2005)

*subcontractors*

we do alot of plowing a day total we do about 10,000 dollars a day in just plowing. we pay 35 dollars per hour, you figure that the aveage driver does 15 different lots a day takes them about 8 hours to do that is 280 dollars a day, that is more than most people make in one week getting min wage. and 8 hours is not even close to what they work a day most work a full time job until 3 go home sleep for about 5 hours and meet at the complex around 8 and plow until 7 or 8 in the morning. that works out to be 280 dollars reg time plus time and a half and that is 437 dollars for 11 hours of work, and that means that they didnt have to get the cleint, they dont have to bill the client, they dont have to supply the salt, they dont even have to deal with lowballers. pretty good money for having a truck and plow with nothing else. at least i would think so. only a few companies that i know of can produce that kind of profit for there employees.


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## drjess (Feb 4, 2006)

thanks for all the excellent advice


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## ssd79 (Feb 9, 2006)

*beacon falls*

Where about?


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Tri-County INC. said:


> we do alot of plowing a day total we do about 10,000 dollars a day in just plowing. we pay 35 dollars per hour, you figure that the aveage driver does 15 different lots a day takes them about 8 hours to do that is 280 dollars a day, that is more than most people make in one week getting min wage. and 8 hours is not even close to what they work a day most work a full time job until 3 go home sleep for about 5 hours and meet at the complex around 8 and plow until 7 or 8 in the morning. that works out to be 280 dollars reg time plus time and a half and that is 437 dollars for 11 hours of work, and that means that they didnt have to get the cleint, they dont have to bill the client, they dont have to supply the salt, they dont even have to deal with lowballers. pretty good money for having a truck and plow with nothing else. at least i would think so. only a few companies that i know of can produce that kind of profit for there employees.


Hopefully no rookies are taking your advice about 35.00 per hour because they wont be in business long. At 60 dollars per hour it has been said that the owner is only clearing 15-20 per hour. That figure of 35.00 is ridicilous.


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## brunosplace (Dec 30, 2004)

Tri-County INC. said:


> we do alot of plowing a day total we do about 10,000 dollars a day in just plowing. we pay 35 dollars per hour, you figure that the aveage driver does 15 different lots a day takes them about 8 hours to do that is 280 dollars a day, that is more than most people make in one week getting min wage. and 8 hours is not even close to what they work a day most work a full time job until 3 go home sleep for about 5 hours and meet at the complex around 8 and plow until 7 or 8 in the morning. that works out to be 280 dollars reg time plus time and a half and that is 437 dollars for 11 hours of work, and that means that they didnt have to get the cleint, they dont have to bill the client, they dont have to supply the salt, they dont even have to deal with lowballers. pretty good money for having a truck and plow with nothing else. at least i would think so. only a few companies that i know of can produce that kind of profit for there employees.


For that you wouldn't even get me off the couch to start the jeeps engine!! My time alone is worth more than that, not counting my expenses such as insurance, taxes, fuel, & wear and tear on the vehicle. If I am going to work extra hours, away from my family ,my OT rate at my regular job is higher than what you are quoting, and they supply the truck, fuel, tools, insurance, etc. So you are out of your mind at that price. Even driving YOUR truck for $35 I would be loosing money.


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

I wonder if Tri County could send me a few pickups at 35.00 per. I bet his bid price for one is close to double his sub rate. That rate has got my blood boiling!


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## Tri-County INC. (Dec 5, 2005)

our average bid for one season 60,000 dollars. just to plow then if they want salt they are looking at about 90,000 dollars, take in mine that we are suppling all the salt, the salt trucks, the liquid de-icers, and the paychecks. most people in our company have at least 20 years experience in a plow truck, and of course they make more, around 70 to 80 dollars per hour, that statement was for someone who goes out buys a truck on november 31 with plow already installed at factory, and thinks that he can plow, this way we protect our company he makes money that he wouldnt have made his first year and MOST of all get experience in many types of equipment, from International 4700 salt truck, to front end loaders, to liquid trucks. many people return year after year some go and try to start out on their own but they always come back.


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## Tri-County INC. (Dec 5, 2005)

*finall two cents*

orlando,brunos place i forgot to add this how many accounts do you have i would say at the most 20 probably mostly drives right. We have at 250 large complexes that we do. we employee 100 people ( 25 full time drivers for our loaders, salt trucks, and snow removal) the rest are subs. and to be really honest if you can make more than 400 dollars a day doing drives. do the math guys 400 a day X lets say 3 days a week = 1200 dollars X 4 weeks in one month = 4800 dollars. now take that number for just one person and mutliply that by 100 and that is what...480,000 thats more than you make in the whole year at both your jobs probably. just a little larger reason we only pay 35 dollars per hour.


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## Chris-R (Jul 9, 2005)

drjess: You should check with a few snow removal companies regarding their sub rates before subbing for someone. Also, it's a good idea to check with your city or town highway dept. to find out what they pay subs to plow the roads. As you're in CT, my guess will be that the going rate will be between $50/hour to $75/hour for a 3/4 ton truck with an 8 foot blade. Good luck on your new adventure


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Tri County, you know nothing about how many accounts I have and it is none of your business. You can spew all the numbers you want but the bottom line is 35.00 per is a joke. You like to talk about how big you are yet do you think anyone will have any oppportunity to grow themselves at that pathetic rate? I think not. You are paying 70-80 per for drivers in your equipment? Let me get my hip waders out of the closet before you tell any more about your business. Once again you know nothing of my accounts and what I gross, so dont assume anything pal.


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

Tri-County INC. said:


> orlando,brunos place i forgot to add this how many accounts do you have i would say at the most 20 probably mostly drives right. We have at 250 large complexes that we do. we employee 100 people ( 25 full time drivers for our loaders, salt trucks, and snow removal) the rest are subs. and to be really honest if you can make more than 400 dollars a day doing drives. do the math guys 400 a day X lets say 3 days a week = 1200 dollars X 4 weeks in one month = 4800 dollars. now take that number for just one person and mutliply that by 100 and that is what...480,000 thats more than you make in the whole year at both your jobs probably. just a little larger reason we only pay 35 dollars per hour.


ummm 
$400 a day - 100 for gas - %30 or $120 for uncle sam - $10 per day for insurance - $20 depreation on truck and plow - $5 coffee - $200 for missing work the next day because your to damn tired to do any thing other then sleep = -$55 a day X3 = -$165 per week x 4 = < drum roll > -$660 a month . 
can i please come work for you ? please !?!?!?


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

and to be really honest if you can make more than 400 dollars a day doing drives. do the math guys 400 a day X lets say 3 days a week = 1200 dollars X 4 weeks in one month = 4800 dollars. now take that number for just one person and mutliply that by 100 and that is what...480 said:


> Where do you live? you get 3 days of plow able events a week and 4 weeks a month? Be realistic stop day dreaming aboutthe money you haven't made.
> Are you insuring this plower or does he have his own INS?
> Anyway for $35 hr I'll stay in bed and you go plow my lots...


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## PowersTree (Jan 9, 2006)

I know people around here who pay more than that for a quad with a plow on it..........$35 an hour hahahahahahahahahahahah I make that driving someone elses truck!!!!


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## brunosplace (Dec 30, 2004)

Tri-County, tell you what, you come here and plow my lots and drives, with your truck, I'll pay you $35 per hour. I'll stay warm in the house, not start my truck, and still make a damn nice profit!! payup


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*low paying contractor*

Construction workers in our area get $30+ an hour furnishing a rule, pocket level and a readible 6 ft folding rule. Straight time. Overtime is $60 per hour for new construction.

Auto workers skilled trades get $30+ per hour, furnishing hand tools. The over time rate is $45 per hr and $60 for overtime.

No truck, insurance, fuel, maintenance and worry that the contractor will not pay. If it doesnt snow he still gets paid.

You can not operate a rig for $35 per hour, not even rolling scrap iron. There are many companys in our area that pay $35-50 per hour, I dont see how they get any one to work for them.

Just my view. That and $1.00 will get me a cup of coffee, a small cup.

Dave


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

I agree with everything you said and I think most of the companies you are telling about who are paying very little are playing games with these guys. They are using newbies with little business acumen and exploiting them. It sounds good to make 40.00 per hour if you are working a normal job for 15.00 per. However when you work as an employee you have zero overhead, not so even with just dipping your toe in the business world( plowing). Whatever I guess but it just strikes a bad chord in me to see people taken advantage of by others who are CHARGING BIG MONEY for these same truck hours when it comes time to total their bill for the customer.


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## Grunt0311 (Dec 28, 2005)

Tricounty is so full of SH*? he doesnt know what way is up! 3 days a week x 4 weeks!?? Give me a break! He is in Ohio! They do not average even close to that amount of time! Hey Tricounty, I would ask how many times you have been out this year, but I dont want another line of BS!!!! Guys like you need to never be in charge of anything!!! $35/hr = 20 hours of plowing just to pay for your liability insurance, not to mention your auto insurance!! Keep dreaming Tricounty, and keep running your mouth!! Everybody here can see right through you, and you are not fooling anyone!!  :realmad:


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## Tri-County INC. (Dec 5, 2005)

*misunderstood*

you guys misunderstood what i said, we pay 35 dollars per hour to the guy that buys the truck on november 1 thinks he can plow snow for money and tries to come lowball us, we hire him give him experience, next year he comes in and makes 50 or 60 depending on wheather he wants to work or if he wants to or lay in bed next to his wife. this way we protect our investments from small time guys with small time thinking. Our equipment operators get that much because 90% are a CDL driver, and on top of all this we have to pay for the diesel in these beast.


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## REAPER (Nov 23, 2004)

I have come to the conclusion that you don't seem to know what you're talking about.


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## Sweetpete (Jul 11, 2005)

Hey Tri-County...I think I understand what you're saying. You'll pay $35 / hr to a 1st year rookie who has no experience whatsoever.

I think that's pretty good. Especially here in Ohio. This area is NOT a big money area, like CT, or NY, or MASS. 

But, what it comes down to is if a person feels they're being taken advantage of, they need to find another line of work or someone else to push snow for. Otherwise, who cares?

There have been alot of good points here, but let's not jump all over Tri-County because he's laying his cards on the table.


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## Fastcar (Oct 17, 2003)

Tri-County INC. said:


> orlando,brunos place i forgot to add this how many accounts do you have i would say at the most 20 probably mostly drives right. We have at 250 large complexes that we do. we employee 100 people ( 25 full time drivers for our loaders, salt trucks, and snow removal) the rest are subs. and to be really honest if you can make more than 400 dollars a day doing drives. do the math guys 400 a day X lets say 3 days a week = 1200 dollars X 4 weeks in one month = 4800 dollars. now take that number for just one person and mutliply that by 100 and that is what...480,000 thats more than you make in the whole year at both your jobs probably. just a little larger reason we only pay 35 dollars per hour.


Maybe I'm missing something here. But If I understand you correctly you would pay me [email protected] hour to work for you. I pay for my truck and plow ($34K) My diesel fuel at [email protected] gal. my liability insurance. I have one question: Are you out of your Effin' mind? At [email protected] driveway I need to do 10 to make the $400 your talking about. That is per push! Now I should be able to do that in what? Easily in 4 hours. I figure your billing those subs out at [email protected] Hell you are making [email protected] off of them and they are beating up there equipment to be paid [email protected]

Try giveing these kids legit info and stop fostering low balling.

Roy


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## Grunt0311 (Dec 28, 2005)

Fastcar said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here. But If I understand you correctly you would pay me [email protected] hour to work for you. I pay for my truck and plow ($34K) My diesel fuel at [email protected] gal. my liability insurance. I have one question: Are you out of your Effin' mind? At [email protected] driveway I need to do 10 to make the $400 your talking about. That is per push! Now I should be able to do that in what? Easily in 4 hours. I figure your billing those subs out at [email protected] Hell you are making [email protected] off of them and they are beating up there equipment to be paid [email protected]
> 
> Try giveing these kids legit info and stop fostering low balling.
> 
> Roy


Couldn't have said it better myself!!!:salute:

What he is actually doing is causing guys to be out there running around with no insurance, doing side jobs for whatever the customer will pay, and basically giving us all a bad name!!!


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## Tri-County INC. (Dec 5, 2005)

what did you guys make your first year most people that start out are lowballers dont care if its itentional or not, you just dont understand the business yet so you think of a price wheather it be by the push by the hour or by the season, you live and you learn RIGHT! Well by giving these guys the chance to make some money with these trucks we are ensuring a new and better breed of plowers, plowers who will take what they learn and grow with companies or start there own. 

When you first start your regular job did you start making 35.00 per hour, probably not, you had to strat at the bottom and work your way up. PAY YOUR DUES. that is what these guys are doing.

and on top of all that we supply the phones, radios, and they are not paying 3.00 dollaars a gallon of fuel, the pay us 1.95 to fuel up there rigs at our locations, all winter long, usally when they sign on to work they get right of the bat a signing bonus, fuel card, brand new NEXTEL phone, MOTOROLA radio, and 3 days of a month paid. i mean comeone give us a break we are not ripping these newbies off, we are paying them for what they know, with is really not that much. most beginners in this business no not last a year or two, this gives them a good solid basis to work with, and if after a year they decide that they dont like it we will purchase the plow from them so they can actually be clear of it, PLUS most people who work for us have talked to other plowers and said that subcontracting is the way to go. think of this!

THEY DONT HAVE TO GET THE ACCOUNT, THEY DONT HAVE TO PAY FOR SALT, CHOLORIDE OR SAND, THEY DONT HAVE TO CARRY COMMERICAL INSURANCE, THEY DONT HAVE TO BILL EVER MONTH, THEY DONT HAVE TO PAY THE ACCOUNTANTS, LAWYERS, SALALERY POSTIONS, I.E THE GENERAL OPEATIONS MGR, THE SUPERVISORS, THE CUSTOMER SERVICE REPS.

DONT TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY BUT, MUST PEOPLE CAN ONLY DREAM ABOUT THIS KIND OF BUSINESS, EVERY YEAR WE EXPAND OUR FLEET OR TRUCKS, LOADERS, SKID STEERS, SALT SPREADERS AND SO ON. I MEAN COME ON GUYS GIVE US A BREAK WE HAVE TAKING THE ART OF SNOW REMOVAL INTO THE 21ST CENTERY, WE HAVE PUT COMPUTERS IN EVERY PEICE OF EQUIPMENT WE OWN, WE RUN OUR OWN WEATHER CENTER WITH TRAINED PEOPLE TO DERTIRMIN IF AND WHEN IT WILL SNOW, HOW MUCH AND WHAT TIME. 

I THINK THAT IF SOMEONE OFFERED ME A JOB PLOWING SNOW, AND I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT I WOULD WORK FOR WHATEVER I COULD JUST TO GET MY FEET WET. 

BUT I GUESS THAT EVERYONE HAS HIS OR HER OPIOIONS, AND TO BE HONEST YOUR OPIOIONS ARE LIKE A _ _ H_ LES EVERY ONE HAS THEM. 

payup


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## tjlands (Sep 29, 2005)

Sounds like a nice operation in an area that receives alot of snow.
Is it your own company?


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## Fastcar (Oct 17, 2003)

Tri-County INC. said:


> what did you guys make your first year most people that start out are lowballers dont care if its itentional or not, you just dont understand the business yet so you think of a price wheather it be by the push by the hour or by the season, you live and you learn RIGHT! Well by giving these guys the chance to make some money with these trucks we are ensuring a new and better breed of plowers, plowers who will take what they learn and grow with companies or start there own.
> 
> When you first start your regular job did you start making 35.00 per hour, probably not, you had to strat at the bottom and work your way up. PAY YOUR DUES. that is what these guys are doing.
> 
> ...


You can dress it up any way you want. Bottom line these subs at $35.00 per hour are getting screwed by you!! The info you've given these kids is BS!
That is my opinion and it is spelled right.

Here's another thought for those that are looking for work. Look around there are some decent folks out there to work for. Hunt around, you'll find them.

Roy


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## Tri-County INC. (Dec 5, 2005)

*yeah all mine*

yeah its all mine, dad started business over 20 years ago, as a construction business when i took over made it stricly commerical snow removal company. this year has been kinda bad but, there is always next year.

IM done talking to these small time guys that cant see a good thing if it hit them in the face, Next year we are coming to your area, are you ready hold on tight the steam roller is coming, count your pennies now and hold tight, for we are bringing in hundred dollar bills while they are breaking in ones and five.

WE WILL SEE WHO WORKS FOR WHO.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

Tri-County INC. said:


> yeah its all mine, dad started business over 20 years ago, as a construction business when i took over made it stricly commerical snow removal company. this year has been kinda bad but, there is always next year.
> 
> IM done talking to these small time guys that cant see a good thing if it hit them in the face, Next year we are coming to your area, are you ready hold on tight the steam roller is coming, count your pennies now and hold tight, for we are bringing in hundred dollar bills while they are breaking in ones and five.
> 
> WE WILL SEE WHO WORKS FOR WHO.


LOL !! So your telling us that you took your dad's construction business and canned it!! For snow removal? 
You better bold on to those crisp $100s', you will need them...

Usually it's snow removal that get's you by until construction season begins..


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## Fastcar (Oct 17, 2003)

Tri-County INC. said:


> yeah its all mine, dad started business over 20 years ago, as a construction business when i took over made it stricly commerical snow removal company. this year has been kinda bad but, there is always next year.
> 
> IM done talking to these small time guys that cant see a good thing if it hit them in the face, Next year we are coming to your area, are you ready hold on tight the steam roller is coming, count your pennies now and hold tight, for we are bringing in hundred dollar bills while they are breaking in ones and five.
> 
> WE WILL SEE WHO WORKS FOR WHO.


Boy!! My BS detector has been working overtime with this thread. It has been my experience that the guy's that are doing it right, making money and pay their help fairly, don't talk about it. They just do it.

Roy


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*comming to our area?*

That was tried by several companies. Most of them sold there problems to others to fix or went bankrupt. They have been written about on here also. It didn't work then and it wont work now. You have to bid MORE than the cost of operations + overhead and at least make a profit. Now a days the Internet snow plow people on here will not work for a contractor that does not pay enough for them to make a profit. As owners of equipment and payers of bills we know the cost of doing business. I don't know of anyone that will work to go bankrupt.

My thoughts and $1.00 will get you a small cup of coffee.

Dave


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## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

If I worked for you all I would have is pennies. Dont bother PMing me trying to explain yourself and then you come back online and spew your usual nonsense. What do you do in the summer, think about how your going to screw the next crop of newbies?


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## Grunt0311 (Dec 28, 2005)

Coming to my area??? BRING IT!! In one of your earlier posts you were talking about how it is alright to pay these guys so little because they would be plowing three times a week, times 4 weeks in a month, and they would make more than at their regular job. Now you say you havent got a lot of snow this year. So which is it?? Are you paying your guys to go out and plow bare ground???? Also, you say they do not need insurance. Are you paying for it?? Everyone needs to have it, and if you dont specifically add all of them on as additional insured's to your policy, they have no coverage! Dont try to feed me another line of BS on this one, as I am an insurance agent and know WAY more than you!

I think the most accurate statement in this thread is that all these "small timers" are done with YOU! Take your BS and put it in you pipe and smoke it!!!!!:angry: :salute:


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## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

Tri-County INC. said:


> what did you guys make your first year


$55 an hour and i was clueless when it came to plowing snow . 
as a matter of fact i was one of though's guy's that got my plow in November and was plowing 2 week's later  
it takes about 1 night of plowing to figure out what you are doing and 2 or 3 to keep up with the more experienced guy's. plowing snow isn't rocked science. a trained chimp could do it.



Tri-County INC. said:


> and on top of all that we supply the phones, radios


all the little extra's you throw in ... worthless . a cell phone you can get for free .< and most likely already have one > a 2 way radio you can get for $50 . 


Tri-County INC. said:


> they are not paying 3.00 dollaars a gallon of fuel, the pay us 1.95 to fuel up there rigs at our locations, all winter long, usally when they sign on to work they get right of the bat a signing bonus,


i don't pay $3 a gallon either . $2.15- $250 is what i pay 
the sign on bonus ? unless your giving me $3 or $4 K sign on bonus i would be losing money working for you . < Note > i worked 3 times this year . i think 24 or 25 hours total. i made a little over $2,000. my boss pay's this 2nd year newbie extra hours just because he want's his drivers happy and making money  
how long would it take your drivers to make that much ? 57 hours in case you don't wan't to add.



Tri-County INC. said:


> THEY DONT HAVE TO GET THE ACCOUNT, THEY DONT HAVE TO PAY FOR SALT, CHOLORIDE OR SAND, THEY DONT HAVE TO CARRY COMMERICAL INSURANCE, THEY DONT HAVE TO BILL EVER MONTH, THEY DONT HAVE TO PAY THE ACCOUNTANTS, LAWYERS, SALALERY POSTIONS, I.E THE GENERAL OPEATIONS MGR, THE SUPERVISORS, THE CUSTOMER SERVICE REPS.


they also don't make $20K - $90K a year per account.

well i guess this dumb newbie < me  > is done with this thread. what do i know about this business anyway ?


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