# Municipal Sidewalk Machine



## Flaggship

Does anyone have any recommendations, on what type of municipal sidwalk snow blower and tractor they would buy? What is the general cost? Life expectancy? Reliability? Etc? Thanks


----------



## csi.northcoast

Depends how much sidewalk you want to do , how much you want to spend... etd.. 

i used a bombardier with t v plow... it will go through anything, ... it is very reliable although it is 20 years old...new these thing can be up to 80 grand. but if you have miles of sidewalks that is what i would go with, it also depend on how wide are the sidewalks,


----------



## Flaggship

*how does plow work with high banks*

how does that plow work once you have huge banks mid season? I was thinking of just a snowblower attachment. THanks


----------



## nsmilligan

I have a Trackless MT5T, I dumped the Trackless blower and added Normand sidewalk blower. I also have a Case DX40 compact tractor with a Machinabilty V blade , both have drop spreaders. 

I contracted about 30 miles of municipal sidewalks. If you are doing any amount of sidewalks in a heavy snow area you need a good municipal tractor. 

A new Trackless is about 120K with attachements, there are a couple of other makes Holder, and Maclean, but the pricing is about in the same range, and although the Maclean is fairly new, I had a chance to demo 1 and they are impressive. Holder is European and parts supply/pricing has been an issue. I like my Trackless and would buy another.

If you are doing any amount of sidewalks where the DOT plows the road beside them you'll need a good blower, once the banks get a bit high then you have to be able to blow the snow, and most times you will be moving snow plowed off the road, which can be heavy, icy and full of everything from hubcaps to anything else that can fall off a passing truck or car.

My Trackless is an 03 Model, bought new, but like any snow removal machine you can expect higher then normal repair /maintenance costs. 

Pay close attention to dealer support, and have a backup plan/machine, downtime is not an option.


Bill


----------



## nsmilligan

Here's a picture of my Trackless


----------



## cf1128

Trackless is the way to go... and that one is a beauty!!


----------



## Flaggship

*why normand?*

Milligan, why the normand blower? What would i expect to pay for a 5-6 year old trackless and blower setup? how many hours is average? Any suggestions on where to find a used one? been looking with little luck. thanks


----------



## cf1128

Not trying to hijack & I know you didn't ask me but SA Mclean in Limerick always has a few used ones. Right there in the great State of Maine

S. A. McLean, Inc.
622 Elm St. Rt. 11
Limerick,ME 04048 207 793 4267 www.s-a-mclean.com


----------



## MacLeanMV

Hey Gents,

What do you think of the MacLean MV?


----------



## nsmilligan

The Normand blower has a lot more capacity then the Trackless blower ,( tons/hour), plus a lot less issues (break downs). A 5-6 year old Trackless would likely be in the 30-50K range depending on condition. Most machines usually see less the 400 hours /year. The dealer in Eastern Canada is Saunders Equipment
in Fredericton NB they usually have a few used machines. Google Trackless vehicles and get the name of the dealer(s) in the NE. Most should have a few used machines on hand. I would check with SA Maclean they seem to have a few .

Some of the problem areas, center pins (make sure the center section is tight), check for frame cracks around the center section and in front of the rear wheels. radiator and hydraulic cooler leaks. drive shafts at the center section, these are about $1k from Trackless, I have a spicer # that will replace them for about $150.

Also google Holder they have a few used machines on hand.
Check with Maclean, they are new and want to get more machines out there, maybe they could swing a deal on a lease/rental that would work for you.


Bill


----------



## snowblowertruck

I have a Trackless, and I am anything but happy with Trackless. They gouge the hell out of their parts and the dealers are snooty. Their view is, if you need the part bad enough, you'll pay our price.....and that's that. I've got over $11,000 into my mt3 and it's broke more than it's not. and every time it breaks, the bill is over $2500...and I'm NOT exaggerating. I've got emails to back it up.


----------



## Joe Blade

*Kutota*



Flaggship;1291148 said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations, on what type of municipal sidwalk snow blower and tractor they would buy? What is the general cost? Life expectancy? Reliability? Etc? Thanks


Before you go out and spend big money take a look at Kubota's 8540 narrow tractor and Kanlan attachments. I am not knocking dedicated sidewalk units but you will save a ton of money and still have a hell of a unit. 70,000 to set up or less and the mclean/kanlan blower is good.


----------



## White Gardens

I would say it depends on the sidewalk width more than anything.

I personally would try to find an ASV RC30 and stick a blower on the thing. Then you have a machine that can be used year around.

I'm sure you could also find a plow that you could modify to be only as wide as the machine when angled if you want to go that route also.

....


----------



## concreteguy

How about a Ventrac ?


----------



## hawkfan45

it would be worth checking out a ventrac. these things are built like tanks and can handle miles of snow.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Ventrac7#p/c/074692CC85E30C2D/3/k6vdzzhyL8U


----------



## nsmilligan

snowblowertruck;1352557 said:


> I have a Trackless, and I am anything but happy with Trackless. They gouge the hell out of their parts and the dealers are snooty. Their view is, if you need the part bad enough, you'll pay our price.....and that's that. I've got over $11,000 into my mt3 and it's broke more than it's not. and every time it breaks, the bill is over $2500...and I'm NOT exaggerating. I've got emails to back it up.


Most of the wear items, ujoints brakes etc are all common items if you can cross them at NAPA etc. or have them made at a local machine shop if time premits. Biggest secret is maintainance, the machines center section has to be greased after each days use, or you'll be replacing center pins and bushings.

Actually I found Trackless has reduced some of their parts pricing, but then again go buy a genuine CAT part!

Bill


----------



## bh115577

We rely heavily on the Ventracs around here but I'm not sure how they would handle the extreme duty of city sidewalks. We do miles of sidewalks with them here but not much in the way of ice and frozen slush. I would consider the tractors commercial duty and the snow blowers heavy homeowner grade.

The dual wheels still need to be taken off the tractors in the pic. They were fresh off the delivery truck when that was taken.


----------



## dfd9

Joe Blade;1352610 said:


> Before you go out and spend big money take a look at Kubota's 8540 narrow tractor and Kanlan attachments. I am not knocking dedicated sidewalk units but you will save a ton of money and still have a hell of a unit. 70,000 to set up or less and the mclean/kanlan blower is good.


I agree.

I've seen a JD 5083 narrow setup with the blower that Joe is talking about. Runs off the rear PTO included with the blower. Lots of HP and speed, not much maintenance like the other machines these guys are talking about. Still have the option of using the 3 point as well.


----------



## DaySpring Services

our local municipality uses holder with blower setup simliar to this one


----------



## nsmilligan

dfd9;1353199 said:


> I agree.
> 
> I've seen a JD 5083 narrow setup with the blower that Joe is talking about. Runs off the rear PTO included with the blower. Lots of HP and speed, not much maintenance like the other machines these guys are talking about. Still have the option of using the 3 point as well.


One of the problems with the "narrow" tractors is they are too tall, also they are not narrow enough for a lot of sidewalks most municipal here are 48", so they can do damage to the edge of the sidewalks. The 5083 is 83 HP at the engine and 67 PTO. If your doing a lot of sidewalks then you want the blower on front, knock another 15-20% off the PTO rating to run the front mount setup.
The Trackless & MacLean and Holder are all over 100 at the PTO, Also they are designed so the front and rear wheels track in the same path around a corner, so if the front clears a pole and you don't move the wheel then the rear will clear.
The narrow tractors will work , if the sidewalks are pretty straight, and there aren't a lot of obstructions ie guy wires, signs etc. The Ventrac looks similar to the Steiner tractors, they will work, but a slow compared to a real municiple tractor.

Bill


----------



## dfd9

Bill, the 5083 Narrow whatever it is, is 48" wide as well. I think the blower is 50".

You have a point on the height issue though.


----------



## Joe Blade

nsmilligan;1353223 said:


> One of the problems with the "narrow" tractors is they are too tall, also they are not narrow enough for a lot of sidewalks most municipal here are 48", so they can do damage to the edge of the sidewalks. The 5083 is 83 HP at the engine and 67 PTO. If your doing a lot of sidewalks then you want the blower on front, knock another 15-20% off the PTO rating to run the front mount setup.
> The Trackless & MacLean and Holder are all over 100 at the PTO, Also they are designed so the front and rear wheels track in the same path around a corner, so if the front clears a pole and you don't move the wheel then the rear will clear.
> The narrow tractors will work , if the sidewalks are pretty straight, and there aren't a lot of obstructions ie guy wires, signs etc. The Ventrac looks similar to the Steiner tractors, they will work, but a slow compared to a real municiple tractor.
> 
> Bill


its true if you have to do a lot of backing up or lots of turns the narrows dont perform as well. But if you can deal with those issues you will save.


----------



## TheLawnRanger2

bh115577;1353198 said:


> We rely heavily on the Ventracs around here but I'm not sure how they would handle the extreme duty of city sidewalks. We do miles of sidewalks with them here but not much in the way of ice and frozen slush. I would consider the tractors commercial duty and the snow blowers heavy homeowner grade.
> 
> The dual wheels still need to be taken off the tractors in the pic. They were fresh off the delivery truck when that was taken.


I love the Ventracs. Been runnin' them for 10 yrs., very versatile machines. The city here uses them exclusively for all there side walk snow removal, and almost all there lawn mowing in the summer.


----------



## ALC-GregH

If you're going to spend the money, a Ventrac is the only way to go. The attachments they offer will allow year round use of the machine. You could even step into parking lot sweeping with the broom attachment. There's just so much more that can be done with one when comparing them to a Trackless. hey offer enough attachments that you could easily expand your services. I'd love to have one with a bunch of attachments.


----------



## Schuley

ALC-GregH;1388916 said:


> If you're going to spend the money, a Ventrac is the only way to go. The attachments they offer will allow year round use of the machine. You could even step into parking lot sweeping with the broom attachment. There's just so much more that can be done with one when comparing them to a Trackless. hey offer enough attachments that you could easily expand your services. I'd love to have one with a bunch of attachments.


I researched what seemed like hundreds of units for our sidewalks. I looked at other companies and how they handled theirs too. We went with a Ventrac and I can honestly say it is one of the best equipment decisions I have ever made! We added 15 more accounts this year, and we are 1 man short from last year and we still finish in the same amount of time as last year. It changed our production on sidewalks so much that I had to rethink routing and manpower. 15 minute sidewalk jobs last year are now 5-7 minutes with the ventrac. 
We are doing a lot of tight and narrow walks, mostly 48" wide, a lot of 90 degree corners that the articulating Ventrac take without a problem. Other machines just can't turn without knocking down the edges or turning into the lawn, the ventrac swings a little wide, but only by inches, not feet.

If you want any specifics about the unit and costs or productivity feel free to PM me.


----------



## ALC-GregH

When I said "I'd love to have one" I didn't mean I had the money to buy one. LOL They are in my eyes, the best unit for the job and with all the other attachments, you really can't go wrong. So, IF I had the money, I'd buy one with a bunch of attachments.They remind me of Grasshoppers with the attachments only beefier. I could also take on a properties for lawn service that are steeper. I'm not big on cutting lawns that are steep with my ztr and I don't want to walk it all. The ability to traverse a 30 degree slope is awesome.


----------



## TheLawnRanger2

I know that we're talkin' sidewalk snow here, but for anyone interested in the Ventrac for snow removal, take a look at what you can do in the summer.

This was just after I got done mowing my yard at home.










And this is their Tuff Cut (bush hog) attachment.


















After watching the Ventrc video again, it almost makes me think it might be as fast, if not faster to use a snow blower on my Ventrac for my accounts. I could load it up on a flat bed and drive it around like that. It would be faster in all the dive ways, and with the blower it would be almost as fast in most of my lots.

.


----------



## bh115577

TheLawnRanger2;1388725 said:


> I love the Ventracs. Been runnin' them for 10 yrs., very versatile machines. The city here uses them exclusively for all there side walk snow removal, and almost all there lawn mowing in the summer.


They are very productive machines for sure and here, they are the hardest working piece of equipment we own.

Believe it or not, the first pic is a Ventrac blowing snow off the roof of our parking garage. Dry snow, but it sure moves it.

The second pic, well I'm sure you can guess what happened. :realmad:


----------



## TheLawnRanger2

bh115577;1389923 said:


> They are very productive machines for sure and here, they are the hardest working piece of equipment we own.
> 
> The second pic, well I'm sure you can guess what happened. :realmad:


How the heck did you do that? 
Did you back up too far and drop in?
Did the eng. get shut off before it sucked up a bunch of water?


----------



## ALC-GregH

I would cry if that happened to me.  I see the oil slick forming. I guess after a drain and fill of all the fluids it would be ok but still.....


----------



## PhilFromErie

We run some of the john deere narrow tractors in the vineyard and they are great tractors. You can get front hitches for them with a front PTO if you want a blower, but that sidewalk plow pro-tech makes looks pretty bad ass. One of them on the front of a JD narrow tractor would be a pretty simple way to go.


----------



## bh115577

TheLawnRanger2;1389979 said:


> How the heck did you do that?
> Did you back up too far and drop in?
> Did the eng. get shut off before it sucked up a bunch of water?


Those mowing decks have a roller on the back that leaves a very nice stripe if you mow in the same direction all the time. The operator backed down the slope to start his next pass and lost traction and slid to the edge of the water. He managed to hold it there with the hydraulics until someone got there with a chain but when they hooked it up, the chain slipped and he slid all the way into the water. He had enough sense to shut the machine down before he bailed out. The water there is over 25 feet deep and it took the diver about half an hour under water to find it and hook up the straps and chains.

Changed all the fluids and filters several times and have over 1000 hours on it since the incident.


----------



## TheLawnRanger2

bh115577;1394694 said:


> Those mowing decks have a roller on the back that leaves a very nice stripe if you mow in the same direction all the time. The operator backed down the slope to start his next pass and lost traction and slid to the edge of the water. He managed to hold it there with the hydraulics until someone got there with a chain but when they hooked it up, the chain slipped and he slid all the way into the water. He had enough sense to shut the machine down before he bailed out. The water there is over 25 feet deep and it took the diver about half an hour under water to find it and hook up the straps and chains.
> 
> Changed all the fluids and filters several times and have over 1000 hours on it since the incident.


Wow, I bet that operator had to change his underoos after that, and not just because they were wet. :laughing:


----------

