# 6.0L and Plowing



## dmjr77 (Nov 6, 2004)

How does the 6.0L V8 found in the 2500's and 2500HD's plow compared to the old 5.7L V8? I am looking at a few trucks with the 6.0L and I refuse to plow with a Allison transmission since a couple of my freinds had them and they got rid of them.


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## Five Star Lawn Care LLC (Dec 13, 2002)

ive only plowed with my truck once (i mainly plow with my dump)....all my guys say is a beast....more power then any P/U that they have ever used....

sorry i cant really add more but i have only had it for 4 months, but what i have seen i really like.....got sick of dodges and there $1200 fixes every 2 months


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## caz41 (Nov 29, 2004)

I have the 6 liter in a 99 and it is very well suited for plowing. It has plenty of snort. A friend has the 5.7 in his truck and mine has plenty more power than he does. I don't have the spec's as far as hp and torque off hand, but would imagine that it would vary depending on what year you are looking at. Hope this helps.


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## gottabirdog (Nov 7, 2004)

The newest 5.7 L that I've owned was a '94. My '04 6L has lot's more power and also uses much more gas! Like that 6L!


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## djd427 (Dec 19, 2004)

I run a 04 3500 with the 6.0 (Dual wheel). Has a 8' mason dump body and a blizzard 810. Has plenty of power! I pull a skidsteer around without any significant stress on the motor. 
Dave


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## Motorman 007 (Jan 11, 2005)

The 6.0 is a beast and I'm very happy with mine. 
FYI, be ready to pay at the gas pump as the 6.0 is not friendly on fuel. 
Also, if you are looking at late model trucks, be sure you get one with the snow plow prep package or you will void any remaining warranty. If you get one with SPP you will probably end up with 4.10 rear end gears, again, great for snowplowing but bad on gas!


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

I wouldn't hesitate to get a 6.0 powered plow truck.

While I never owned a "late-model" 5.7, I have ridden in quite a few. The 5.7's may have had a smidge more low end, but the 6.0 blows it away everywhere else. I'm happier with my 6.0 than I was with my 454!

The 454 had tons of low end snap (often times TOO much) but the fun ended by the time you got to 3K rpm. With the 6.0, the fun just starts at 3K and it'll take you right to 6K and pull hard all the way there.

With the 4.10 gears and T/H mode, this combination works very well up to it's rated towing/hauling capacities.


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## mickman (Jan 24, 2001)

we have 2 2500hd's with 6.0 and they have plenty of power and they will eat up some petro [ what gasser doesn't ] We average about 200 miles a tank
when plowing [ our powerstroker isn't much better ]

I am thinking of adding super-chips to them. Has anyone else added chips,
& do they make any difference, or are they a waist of coin?


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## ratlover (May 5, 2003)

I wouldnt hesitate to run a 6.0

I wouldnt drop money on just a chip for a gasser

IMO the allison is the best plowing trans and best trans available in a PU truck. There are only a few problems, all of witch are or were well known and easily fixed(and 99.9% of the time under warantee). Some converter had problems with the tabs cracking. Issue has been fixed. The lower bolts holding the bellhousing onto the case wernt properly sealed from the factory, the issue has been fixed. If you do it, a dab of RTV on the bolts or the factory washer+the cost of a transfercase gasket, fluid and the time to pull the trans back from the motor. The NSBU switch is junk. If it dies there is a TSB and covered for 100k IIRC that replaces it with an updated switch from allison. Switch is held on with 2 bolts and a nut, 50$ part from allison and a job you could do on your back with a 13m(IIRC) and a 15m(IIRC) socket on your back in a few minutes in the field. Your truck will still drive but especially if you change it in a parking lot you will still be a pissed of MF.


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

I have had several 5.7 powered GMs....Towed, plowed and hauled with little effort. All pretty good on gas.

I have/had 2 6.0s.and they are brutes doing the same work.
Yea, they eat more gas but have more low end torque. But a 5.3 or 350
will kick their butt off the line and down the 1/4 mile !

Your right about avoiding the the Allie trans. or even the diesel.
I read TOO many horror stories on the GM truck web sites I visit........
$500 injectors (not covered under warranty BS) on the Duras. Plus a host
of complaints on the Allies.............

And not to leave troublesome ford and mopar diesels out either.............

What kills me tho. is those fellas own DRIVEWAY QUEENS and cry about
problems......Major OR minor !
Its not like they are whipping the dog tar outta them plowing or heavy towing!

For me...A sturdy, troublefree, HARDWORKING rig is all I ask for. As long as it visits only the gas pump and not the repair bay !!!!!!!!!


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## ratlover (May 5, 2003)

What are these host of complaints on the allison?

Injectors are well over 500$ to replace if you have to foot the bill but there is a 200k warantee on the injectors  

I own a Duramax but I plow real easy and I also drive like a lil old lady in general


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

sonjaab said:


> But a 5.3 or 350
> will kick their butt off the line and down the 1/4 mile !


You can thank GM's Torque management team for that! From what I hear, a tuned ECM will REALLY wake up the 6.0 in the HD's....especially one that removes all torque management.


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## Bad Luck (Sep 30, 2004)

TLS said:


> You can thank GM's Torque management team for that! From what I hear, a tuned ECM will REALLY wake up the 6.0 in the HD's....especially one that removes all torque management.


Wester's Garage PCM Program can eliminate TM, supposedly it's the cream of the crop of PCM mods, completly custom to your application 

Next in line after the intake gets bolted on my 5.3 payup


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

GUYS...All I can say is take a trip over to edmunds.com, gm-trucks.com, or pickup truck .com.

Many guys beefing about injector problems. Some got a free extended warranty and repairs some got the shaft job or paid $500x 8 for new ones.
Most just dumped them......

The Allie problems are numerious. Heck check the Chevy forums here.

Wanna laugh? 2 fellas over at Edmunds swapped their troublesome 01/02 dura/allies and bought those nissan titans..........LOL !
Stop over there in the forums and read the silverado/sierra owners threads.
I have been a member there since 1999.............

Westers tune?.....Stop over to GM-trucks.com before you buy one of those.
Quite a few fellas beefing about no after purchase support and poor running trucks. Another problem with Westers is you have to send them your trucks computer FIRST. Then they re program it and send it back...........
YEA.............2 week turnaround with NO truck...............

If I wanted a tuner. I would buy a hypertech like I had on my 97.
It was a handheld unit that plugs into the OBD 2 socket and loads the program into the stock computer. You can even program it for different tire sizes, timing,prem. or reg gas, etc.
If I had to take it to the dealer. I would just plug it back it and reset the computer program back to stock.

IMO...and for the price a properly equipped 3/4 ton 6.0 can push plenty of snow, and heavy tow and haul with cheap maint. and a low initial cash outlay.


The diesels cost more $$$$ to buy and maintain. And if it breaks....VERY $pendy to fix..........I like my gassers !!!!  ....geo


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

sonjaab,

While I mainly agree with your post.....I do have some altering opinions.

Very few problems with the Allison....Mostly early ones and usually the NSBU switch related. Though, I'd prefer a 4L80E for snowplowing, as the Reverse in the Allison is painfully slow.

As for the Westers programming.....You order from him an ECM tuned how you want it. You pay for IT and a core charge......It comes to your house....You install it,......make sure all is well and it runs fine......then you return your OEM ECM......and when he gets it back, you get your core charge credited to your Credit Card. There is no "Downtime".

Now, yes there have been some posts on various forums about "No Starts" and poor running, but you may want to consider the aptitude and mechanical inclination of these particular posters being partially to blame.

Hypertech is a waste of money for gas or diesel GM HD's IMO. Not much is done to the timing and fuel maps, and very little is done to the transmission. NO torque management is removed.

The only programmer worth the money right now would be the DiabloSport, as it also functions as a code reader, and you have the ability to tweak just about all parameters that Westers does.


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## Turfmower (Dec 20, 2003)

I have the Alison Trans in my truck It is the best transmission I have ever owned. If there all these problem other than the older nsbu switch please post links to them as I never seen them.


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## ratlover (May 5, 2003)

westers is pretty good but I still prefer Steve Cole at TTS. But I duno if he has done anything with the 6.0? 

Thanks TLS, you saved me some typing LOL Except reverse is still plenty high for me  And I dont think you reallyt agreed with any of geo's post  

GM has been steeping up the plate very well IMO on the injectors. its not some, if you have a problem truck you have a 200k warantee on it. Mine started to go south at 37k and they didnt even talk about charging me the 100$ deductable(over 36k up to 100k there is a 100$ deductable on the motor)


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## redhenny16 (Feb 13, 2004)

I agree with ratlover and turfmower. My truck has a Duramax/Allison combo, no real problems yet. I think this powertrain combo is by far the best one available for a pickup today.


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

GUYS............Lots of beefs and other opinions on those Westers tunes at GM trucks. A few fellas had to send their stock PCM first........
Others did the swap/core charge thing and waited MONTHS for their credit !
The guys that had problems could never get a answer from Lydon? at Westers. They have ANOTHER complaint thread going over there !

I WAS interested in a tune for my 6.0. But the horror story threads and dealer warranty issues kept me happy with my stock setup...........
I am not one to visit the service dept. except for a oil change !

The 01/02 Allie/dura combo was a hot item with the GM guys over at Edmunds and a bunch of those fellas HAD to buy them to decorate their driveways ! They all posted nothing but tails of woe..........
Most of them didn't even WORK their rigs like WE do ! :crying: 

Hopefully you guys with the newer rigs won't have problems. I hope GM
got all the bugs worked out.........geo


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## Bad Luck (Sep 30, 2004)

Where are the complaint threads? I was on there last night and saw one or two guys that were having issues. The way that the Westers works is you send him out your PCM, and they re-program it. So your truck will be down for a week or so. I know some guys ran into shipping issues and when you read those posts realize that Lydon does say it takes up to 60 or so miles for the truck to re-learn the mappping. This may cause some funky things to happen intially. This isn't like the handhelds that give you instant gratification. 

I guess no one way is the perfect?? I just like the idea of being to reduce or eliminate TM and having a fully customized tune. No too many of the other programers can do that, safely. Also, with a Westers tune should you have to go back to the dealership Lydon's program is supposed to be untraceable by the Tech 2. 


It's like the great intake debate, which is better? Which is more effective?


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## cumminswithplow (Jan 30, 2004)

My father in-law has a 2000 6.0. He pulls a fifth wheel rv camper all summer long. It weighs almost 13000 lbs. He has 120,000 miles And no problems other then an exhaust manifold leak. Other then drinkin gas like its a big block he loves it.


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

BAD.........Ya gotta do a search at GM trucks.com. 6 months ago the guys got things going for a group discount from Westers. Some guys had no prob. with their tuners. Others beefed and b****ed about theirs !

Sure scared me about buying one from ANYBODY for this 04!.......
The Hypertech in my 97 5.7 made it run like a scalded dog off reg. cheap pump gas!

I sure would like to rid my 6.0 of that stupid torque mgt. program !!!!!
My buds 04 5.3 1/2 ton ex=cab w 3:73 gears will WALK my 6.0.........
That bad boy will SMOKE the tires up the block and squeek 2nd !
What a difference between those motors ! I am lucky to squeek the tires off the line ! But that 6.0 does have the grunt to pull or push tho......


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## karl klein (Jan 28, 2001)

no problems with my 6.0l 04 with blizzard 810 and skidsteer not as much get up as my 7.4 ltr 454 but still pushes a lot of snow


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## trinitygrove (Nov 22, 2004)

what do u guys think of the 5.3 in a 1500.
3.42 axle ratio
I think the specs are 295 hp and 310 ft/lbs
Does anyone have half ton's that they use for major plowing,
any issues with this.


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## Stovezbt (Oct 13, 2001)

sonjaab said:


> BAD.........Ya gotta do a search at GM trucks.com. 6 months ago the guys got things going for a group discount from Westers. Some guys had no prob. with their tuners. Others beefed and b****ed about theirs !
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Turfmower (Dec 20, 2003)

sonjaab said:


> I sure would like to rid my 6.0 of that stupid torque mgt. program !!!!!
> My buds 04 5.3 1/2 ton ex=cab w 3:73 gears will WALK my 6.0.........
> That bad boy will SMOKE the tires up the block and squeek 2nd !
> What a difference between those motors ! I am lucky to squeek the tires off the line ! But that 6.0 does have the grunt to pull or push tho......


I guess you use you truck as Dragster what do you use the GTO for PLOWING?


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

TURF...........LOL !!!!!

Nah....The goat don't see daylight much anymore. Just a Sunday car !
I have had that car since 1974 ! 

Not afraid to pound on that one either or my Caddy..........

That WOT V-8 excites this old fart !!!!!!!!............. 

BTW:My bud with the 5.3 is a car freak......He has a 69 Nova 396 and a 78
Cutlass with a 455 shoehorned into it sitting in his garage !


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## BigRedBarn (Jan 4, 2003)

Back when the new GM fullsize pickups were introduced with the new series of engines (1999 maybe?), it was said in the car magazines that the new 4.8 and 5.3 were well-designed engines, but the new 6.0 was supposed to be more of the "heavy duty" truck engine you should specifiy if you needed a stout engine. 

That's just what I remember. Since the displacement is about the same for the 6.0 and the old 350, the 6.0 should certainly be an improvement. I would think low-end torque would be better with the 6.0 as it's still a 2-valve per cylinder engine. If they had gone to a 4-valve engine design you'd see a reduction in low-end torque as 4-valvers need to rev to make power. 

I know the old 1992 GMC I had had a 350 that got very, very tired when it reached 125,000 miles. I would think the 6.0 should last longer than that. 

If it does seem like the 6.0 has less low-end grunt, it may just be a matter of the truck weighing more. Let's face it, a lot of people are switching from regular cabs to extended and 4-door cabs, which are gonna weigh more. Also, GM has to meet ever-changing gas mileage requirements, and they may be doing things to get better mileage such that the engine's turning slower than before. It's always difficult to make exact comparisons. 

Just my 2¢.


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## BigRedBarn (Jan 4, 2003)

Can someone 'splain "torque management?" I'm not sure what you're taling about. 

Is it something in the tranny shifting, or in the engine-computer tuning of the engine parameters? 

I'm not sure what you guys mean. 



Also, here in NY State, from what I've read & from what I've been told when I took my truck in for state inspection, the new New York State yearly inspections hook up to your engine's diagnostic plug for newer vehicles. I guess it can tell if the computer's been reprogrammed and will fail any vehicle with a reprogrammed computer. 

Anyone here have any info on that, or had any bad experiences with that? I don't mean to take this thread off topic, so maybe a new thread should be started on NY State inspections since a lot of people here live in NY. I apologize if this issue's been discussed previously. I'm not able to frequent this forum all that much.


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

In short, torque management is:


Ignition timing adjustment
Fuel injection adjustment (amount and duration of fuel sprayed)
Accelerator Pedal Postition (APP) compared to Throttle Position Sensor (TPS)

This is a basic list, there are other parameters that come in to play to determine which combination of the above is used and when. This is also for gas engines, as diesels have several more parameters that they fiddle with.

Torque management is present in many different circumstances, from take off, to shifting, to rev limiting. Most of it is good, but some of it is used to idiot proof the trucks for those owners that don't have the privelage of driving their own vehicles (employees).


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## GPB (Dec 17, 2003)

Ive been happy with the 6.0 in my 02 Chevy. It replaced a 99 HD 3/4 ton (old body style) with the 350. The 6.0 has quite a bit more power than the 350 had and I get the same mileage, (usually around 12.5 mpg). Both had 4.10 gears. I have 80,000 miles on it now and it hasn't needed a single repair.


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## BigRedBarn (Jan 4, 2003)

TLS said:


> In short, torque management is:
> 
> 
> Ignition timing adjustment
> ...


Thanks. I guess I understand what the engine computer is trying to do. It sounds like what the engine computer does on all late-model vehicles. For example, depending on how complex the sensing and controlling systems are, some engine computers can adjust engine parameters to take advantage of premium gasoline. This is why some cars and trucks can take advantage of premium gasoline, while other vehicles can't. In the vehicles that can't, this results in a waste of money for any gasoline purchased above regular unleaded.

But I don't understand why they give it that name. That is, is this something specific to work trucks to ensure that maximum torque (rather than maximum power?) is available for heavy hauling and/or towing situations?

Again, the name "torque management" seems to be confusing me. But then, I'm easily confused!!!


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

BigRedBarn said:


> Is this something specific to work trucks to ensure that maximum torque (rather than maximum power?) is available for heavy hauling and/or towing situations?
> 
> Again, the name "torque management" seems to be confusing me. But then, I'm easily confused!!!


It's not an advertised term. It's most likely supposed to be a secret. GM designed this as their engines got powerfull enough to start damaging driveline components.

To most guys, Torque Management is a bad thing. To GM its a way to almost guarantee they'll get 3yrs/36K miles out of driveline components even when in the hands of aggressive drivers that beat the vehicle every day.

It's name is derived from what it really does.......manages the torque output of the engine during preset conditions. It just so happens to be present in the 6.0 HD's much more so than in any other vehicle. For example, your not going to see the same amount of it in the Silverado SS or the Corvette (both use the same basic 6.0 engine)


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## BigRedBarn (Jan 4, 2003)

TLS said:


> It's not an advertised term. It's most likely supposed to be a secret. GM designed this as their engines got powerfull enough to start damaging driveline components.
> 
> To most guys, Torque Management is a bad thing. To GM its a way to almost guarantee they'll get 3yrs/36K miles out of driveline components even when in the hands of aggressive drivers that beat the vehicle every day.
> 
> It's name is derived from what it really does.......manages the torque output of the engine during preset conditions. It just so happens to be present in the 6.0 HD's much more so than in any other vehicle. For example, your not going to see the same amount of it in the Silverado SS or the Corvette (both use the same basic 6.0 engine)


[RANT]

Harrrrrrummmmphhhh!!! (spit)... (sputter)... Sounds like a Commie plot to me!!!

Somebody call Nalph Rader... Uh, I mean Ralph Nader right away!!!

Here's the title for the book Ralphie's gonna write about this GM "Torque Manglement, uh, I mean Management" subversion...

*"Unsafe At Any Greed!!!"*

Whew. Sorry about that... I get a bit excited when I smell a corporate scheme.

[/RANT]


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## ratlover (May 5, 2003)

I think torque managment is good for a majority of the lemmings out there. Full power in first gear would lead to soccer moms whipping ****tys in the middle of intersections. 

Persoanly though torque managment pisses me the F off. Or it did when i had it anyway


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

RED...........LOL !!!!!! Don't forget the "black box" that GM and other auto makers have been hiding quietly in new vehicles the last few years.

GUYS............Do you think the "torque mgt." is set up different in the 6.0 3/4s vs. the 5.3 1/2s ? 
Pretty sure it is.

Like I posted....My buds 5.3 is a screamer compared to my 6.0..........


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

Your buddies 5.3 1/2 ton is a screamer because it has a 4L60E transmission. Much lower 1st gear, and it takes considerably LESS HP to spin it. Also add to that, the 1/2 ton frame is considerably smaller/thinner/lighter, for an overall lighter truck. Lighter tires, wheels, brakes, axles, the list goes on and on.


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## sonjaab (Jul 29, 2001)

TLS.........I gotta check his reg. for the trucks weight...........
I hear ya about the 4le60s lower 1st. gear.

The rear ends, brakes are identical according to the American Axle web site.
He has those meaty tires because its a Z-71 while I run the stock skinny
Death/Bridge stones...........Hmmmmm!


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## TLS (Jan 31, 2000)

The 1/2 tons do not use the same axle. May use the same rear disc's, but even thats doubtful. Remember, if it's only a couple hundred pounds lighter, that can make a big difference......especially when he has a 15 some horspower advantage with a more efficient transmission, not to mention the 1st gear ratio.

Also, a Load range C tire will be significantly lighter than a Load range E tire. Not a big deal, but I've felt (but dyno) tire weight differences before and if I can feel a difference in car tires, truck tires would be similar if not greater.


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