# Bidding a state job today have a question



## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

So today I have to bid my first commercial property and it is with The state job service . It is not a very big piece of property there’s probably 10 or 15 parking spots and then there is seven parking spots in the back for employees. I’m wondering if I should bid it as a per hour or per job what seems to be the best? Also if you bid per hour do you still use a trigger like 2 inches or do you do 1 inch


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

You can bid it however you want. I bid by the acre or square foot. If you bid the size of the lot, the customer can't get f'd if there's a slow operator on the site. You can bid it at 1" or 2". Ask the customer how they want it bid, at 1" or 2".


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

OK so it is about 11,200 ft.² which is about a quarter of an acre. Do you think $150 would be too cheap? Doesn’t look like it would take very long provided there are no vehicles in the lot.All of my residential customers are on teir pricing. Would it make sense to have $150 minimum for the first 4 inches and then go up so many dollars every 4 inches


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Any way you bid it is based on per hour.
You bid 11k sq ft at a certain rate because you figure it should take you X amount of time to do.
You need to figure out what your hourly costs will be for that truck, and then come up with a price, just remember, government bids not always, but often go to the lowest bidder and there's usually at least 3 people bidding on it. 
Sometimes state departments that are scattered throughout the state will have a maintenance manager at each building and they may have a state issued credit card they're paying with, keep in mind processing fees when bidding if they do pay with a CC. 

Another caveat to keep in mind, some insurance companies won't insure you if you're doing government properties


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

being a a state job, in your state do you have to pay prevailing wag?


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

I am a solo operator. Can’t find anyone reliable to work


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

So if my rate for instance is $150hr but they want to pay by the job how do I go about pricing it like that??


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

Actually what I suppose I could do is do tier pricing and my minimum would be $150 and goes up every 4”


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

It's a public account and they don't have bid specs?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

R&J Whitetails said:


> So if my rate for instance is $150hr but they want to pay by the job how do I go about pricing it like that??


Well you know it should take way under 1 hr. As Jeff stated you have to know what the state wants, 1 or 2''. What about salt? $ 150.00 would be a touch high for 10 min worth of work here. If it was here I would bid maybe $120.00 plow $90.00 or so for salt.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

FredG said:


> Well you know it should take way under 1 hr. As Jeff stated you have to know what the state wants, 1 or 2''. What about salt? $ 150.00 would be a touch high for 10 min worth of work here. If it was here I would bid maybe $120.00 plow $90.00 or so for salt.


It's prob a little longer than 10 mins. Prob 20 mins tops. So if they want a 1" trigger would you charge them $120 and would 2" be a diff charge? If so higher or lower? My one residential property is an apartment building they have five spots and I charge the lady $30 per spot plus one sidewalk And she is also on tier pricing and if all the vehicles are moved it would literally take 10 minutes at the most


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

R&J Whitetails said:


> It's prob a little longer than 10 mins. Prob 20 mins tops. So if they want a 1" trigger would you charge them $120 and would 2" be a diff charge? If so higher or lower?


I'm not in your area so I really can't help with the 1-2'' thing. It would not fly here it's not the way it works. I would not mention anything about hourly in my bid accept severe conditions where you would need a machine and maybe a dump truck.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

So you would a flat rate of $120 in your area every time you have to go there or do you wait till it's doen snowing then do it all once for $120?​


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

R&J Whitetails said:


> So you would a flat rate of $120 in your area every time you have to go there or do you wait till it's doen snowing then do it all once for $120?​


Don't go by my pricing for all I know you could get more than $120.00 or could be to much. Yes I would hit it every 1 or 2'' whatever they want no matter how many trips it takes to keep it clean and safe. You still have not said if you need to salt or is someone else doing it.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

FredG said:


> Don't go by my pricing for all I know you could get more than $120.00 or could be to much. Yes I would hit it every 1 or 2'' whatever they want no matter how many trips it takes to keep it clean and safe. You still have not said if you need to salt or is someone else doing it.


I'm not going by your price I was just using it as an example they did not mention anything about salt yet


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

So let’s just say I tell them it’s going to cost you $120 to clean the snow off your lot. Then I asked them do you want me to come at 1 inch or 2 inches and they say well that might get too expensive if we have 6 inches of snow. Then I could offer them a tear price of 120 to start I suppose if they wanted to pay at the end of the snowfall


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

R&J Whitetails said:


> So let's just say I tell them it's going to cost you $120 to clean the snow off your lot. Then I asked them do you want me to come at 1 inch or 2 inches and they say well that might get too expensive if we have 6 inches of snow. Then I could offer them a tear price of 120 to start I suppose if they wanted to pay at the end of the snowfall


These are pretty elementary questions you're asking. I don't think you're ready to manage this account, perhaps you could sub for someone for a year or so.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

BossPlow2010 said:


> These are pretty elementary questions you're asking. I don't think you're ready to manage this account, perhaps you could sub for someone for a year or so.


You weren't a pro right out off the bat. Don't reply if you don't have anything good to say. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right. I've never had a commercial account so don't know how it works


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

R&J Whitetails said:


> You weren't a pro right out off the bat. Don't reply if you don't have anything good to say. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right. I've never had a commercial account so don't know how it works


I asked a legitimate question and you completely ignored it.

Just because someone isn't saying what you want to hear, doesn't mean they don't have anything good to say.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

John_DeereGreen said:


> It's a public account and they don't have bid specs?


I have no idea.Like I said I've never done this before so that's why I am asking on here


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

R&J Whitetails said:


> You weren't a pro right out off the bat. Don't reply if you don't have anything good to say. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right. I've never had a commercial account so don't know how it works


I'll break this down.
1. You're right I wasn't a pro right off the bat, I started with a shovel, and eventually moved to to a truck and subbed from a couple companies doing commercial accounts my first few years of plowing. I've learned a lot in my short time of snow management, I accept constructive criticism and know that there's always more to learn.

2. You came here asking for advice and your questions are so basic, I'd like to see you do well but before you just start throwing numbers, why don't you sit down and figure out your expenses, as well as the commitment a commercial account is going to take.

3. "I've never had a commercial account" so maybe you shouldn't go jump into a bid a government account as your first commercial account.
4. Again, I've offered advice to your post already you're just choosing not accept it.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

As asked, did you get a bid packet? Here, in the packet will be listed as follows, the insurance requirements, minimum equipment, and how they want it priced, by the hour, or how ever. Most municipal work is not, just throw a price. By the way, its very late for a township to be looking for a contractor.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

R&J Whitetails said:


> I have no idea.Like I said I've never done this before so that's why I am asking on here


How did you find out about this job?


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I'll break this down.
> 1. You're right I wasn't a pro right off the bat, I started with a shovel, and eventually moved to to a truck and subbed from a couple companies doing commercial accounts my first few years of plowing. I've learned a lot in my short time of snow management, I accept constructive criticism and know that there's always more to learn.
> 
> 2. You came here asking for advice and your questions are so basic, I'd like to see you do well but before you just start throwing numbers, why don't you sit down and figure out your expenses, as well as the commitment a commercial account is going to take.
> ...


What have I not excepted? These people just called me out of the blue and asked me if I was interested in moving snow for them so I am not going to see you know you have to start somewhere.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

Randall Ave said:


> As asked, did you get a bid packet? Here, in the packet will be listed as follows, the insurance requirements, minimum equipment, and how they want it priced, by the hour, or how ever. Most municipal work is not, just throw a price. By the way, its very late for a township to be looking for a contractor.


This is a job service of North Dakota place. I have no idea why they don't have somebody to move snow. Sorry I didn't ask them. This is not a township thing


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

R&J Whitetails said:


> What have I not excepted? These people just called me out of the blue and asked me if I was interested in moving snow for them so I am not going to see you know you have to start somewhere.


Go have a sit down with them. See what the insurance requirements are. Have a price in mind what to charge them. Go from there.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

Randall Ave said:


> How did you find out about this job?


They just called me out of the blue


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

Randall Ave said:


> Go have a sit down with them. See what the insurance requirements are. Have a price in mind what to charge them. Go from there.


Basically she called me wondering if I was interested I told her yes and she asked the next question if I was license with the state and I told her I was. I told her I could swing by around 330 and look at the property. I already know what it looks like but that's what I told her


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

With projects that are prevailing wage, even as a solo operator, you will have to prove that you payed yourself PW scale and supply certified payroll on yourself proving taxes and all are paid.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

Well I got the bid spec sheet from them and it’s a per our bid and a 2 inch trigger sanding is not required and if it was needed it can be subcontracted it is not part of the bI’d meaning you will not be disqualified if you don’t have a sander . She also told me they have never had a year over $2500 for the season


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

It's a super small job you will be fine. I do understand what the guys are talking about tho. Just don't want you to fail.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Philbilly2 said:


> With projects that are prevailing wage, even as a solo operator, you will have to prove that you payed yourself PW scale and supply certified payroll on yourself proving taxes and all are paid.


Probably going to want WC sole or not.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

FredG said:


> Probably going to want WC sole or not.


Seems different state to state. Here I had to have it.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

Is WC Workmen's Comp. that you're talking about maybe you had that in your post I just missed it. The bid sheet didn't say anything about Workmen's Comp. if that's what you were talking about


FredG said:


> Probably going to want WC sole or not.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

R&J Whitetails said:


> Is WC Workmen's Comp. that you're talking about maybe you had that in your post I just missed it. The bid sheet didn't say anything about Workmen's Comp. if that's what you were talking about


You should still get workers comp


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

BossPlow2010 said:


> You should still get workers comp


 By the time I pay Workers Comp. insurance fuel and any other expenses that wouldn't leave you with much profit. If I could find somebody reliable to help me so I can take on more jobs then I could see.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

There's nothing in the bid sheet about required insurance? If there's not, you should ask.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

R&J Whitetails said:


> By the time I pay Workers Comp. insurance fuel and any other expenses that wouldn't leave you with much profit. If I could find somebody reliable to help me so I can take on more jobs then I could see.


That moment when reality sets in. Welcome to real professional snow and ice management. The real numbers and margins in this industry are "jarring"...

Everything said and advised so far has been spot on. We all hope you take it to heart...


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

Randall Ave said:


> There's nothing in the bid sheet about required insurance? If there's not, you should ask.


It just says awarded bidder will be required to sign North Dakota State service contract and also provide certificate of liability insurance


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

Freshwater said:


> That moment when reality sets in. Welcome to real professional snow and ice management. The real numbers and margins in this industry are "jarring"...
> 
> Everything said and advised so far has been spot on. We all hope you take it to heart...


Right it all cost money


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

As said, every state is different on work comp.

Make sure if you do pw work that you pay yourself and you pay payroll taxes on yourself if you are on the job especially if you are the only one one the job.

I am speaking as a person who does a lot of pw work and has been involved in a pw lawsuit from time to time.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

R&J Whitetails said:


> By the time I pay Workers Comp. insurance fuel and any other expenses that wouldn't leave you with much profit. If I could find somebody reliable to help me so I can take on more jobs then I could see.


Boy oh boy does that sound familiar...


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Here’s the thing. You learned something.

Pretty much every government job will provide a spec sheet, a RFQ, a RFP, or something similar that outlines what the specifications are. So you jumped the gun in asking, and guys saw the red flags starting to fly.

Just because Overhead costs a lot doesnt mean you can get out of it. To make it worth it, you need to secure enough work to cover it and make a profit. You will find that commercial is a completely different beast than residential be it government or not. You will be required to prove insurance compliance, and in many cases if you are qualified to do the work. Meaning they will want to know what kind of equipment you have at your disposal.

No one had all the experience from the get go. But the successful people came up through the ranks like in any other trade. Typically these really simple questions dont really need to be asked because when you sub, or even drive for another company you pick up on all those basics.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

ktfbgb said:


> Here's the thing. You learned something.
> 
> Pretty much every government job will provide a spec sheet, a RFQ, a RFP, or something similar that outlines what the specifications are. So you jumped the gun in asking, and guys saw the red flags starting to fly.
> 
> ...


I've been doing residential for 4 years now so yea I didn't know what to expect and she wanted to see me today about it so I needed to get as much info as I could and YES I learned they have a bid sheet. I had a number in my head when I went in there and it wasn't far off from what she told me so I must be figuring it pretty close. This is an optional 2 year contract so I will see what happens. Thanks


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Can I ask what equipment do you have? They should tell you what the minimum liability cover is.


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## Elite Snow Removal (Sep 29, 2015)

Randall Ave said:


> Can I ask what equipment do you have? They should tell you what the minimum liability cover is.


9'2"dxt on a 2016 Denali diesel. I can use about anything I want she said. There was nothing in there that tallied about how much insurance. It was pretty generic form.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

You should be fine, but just devise some type of a backup plan incase something breaks. Maby a friend, or some one else with a plow truck.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

R&J Whitetails said:


> 9'2"dxt on a 2016 Denali diesel. I can use about anything I want she said. There was nothing in there that tallied about how much insurance. It was pretty generic form.


You will get the specific amount of insurance needed after you are awarded the bid


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

ktfbgb said:


> You will get the specific amount of insurance needed after you are awarded the bid


I don't think I'd ever bid something without knowing exact insurance requirements.

What if your current policy doesn't cover their needs, and it costs you 3k to add the coverage(s) they need? And you've already submitted your bid?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

When I submitted my bid to the town, I had to have my insurance in place, and the town named as an additional insured party.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

John_DeereGreen said:


> I don't think I'd ever bid something without knowing exact insurance requirements.
> 
> What if your current policy doesn't cover their needs, and it costs you 3k to add the coverage(s) they need? And you've already submitted your bid?


I was just saying if he didn't ask he WILL FIND OUT. I would always ask the required amount before placing the bid, but it sounded like it was too late for him. Usually its part of the bid package out here, but sounds like it wasn't on his, and he didn't ask what the requirement was.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

ktfbgb said:


> I was just saying if he didn't ask he WILL FIND OUT. I would always ask the required amount before placing the bid, but it sounded like it was too late for him. Usually its part of the bid package out here, but sounds like it wasn't on his, and he didn't ask what the requirement was.


Ok, we're on the same page then. I thought you were suggesting to throw bids out without knowing insurance requirements and it really threw me off given the amount of construction work you've done/do.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Ok, we're on the same page then. I thought you were suggesting to throw bids out without knowing insurance requirements and it really threw me off given the amount of construction work you've done/do.


Yep, my wording was poor on that one I guess. It was supposed to be kinda "snarky" as my wife would say lol.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

OP it may be a case that there is a published document on their website that would say something like “general information on bidding work” or something like that. I have heard of that before. They just take for granted that you have the knowledge of their bidding procedure. If they have that it would have the basic info on it like insurance amounts for different kinds of contracts, how long the review process is, etc.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Maybe I'm just misreading your tone here, as it's pretty hard to get a good read on someone's attitude threw text, but it seems you're a bit on edge to people trying to help you. If not, my apologies, but if so, just take a breather and lower that heart rate a bitThumbs Up. We're all on the same side. 

Even though I agree on your "You have to start somewhere" mentality, sometimes putting your own ass on the line isn't the answer. I am a firm believer is subbing before taking on your own work, especially commercial. As already stated above, being a subcontractor would have answered a lot of your questions to help you put together your bid.

Since we're just jumping in head first here though, you need to know the basics. I won't and can't cover them all, but here's the answer to some of your questions.
•You will plow at their trigger (2") and every time it reaches that trigger.
•Because it's a gov. building, they probably have gov. hours, and at night you'll have more leeway. That's when a tiered pricing would probably come into play. Just make sure it's cleared before they open, and be there in the day to make sure triggers are met.
•This is not residential, and needs to be handled completely different
•If you can't pay your overhead and still turn a profit, you're not charging enough.
•If you can't land the job with YOUR prices (as long as your overhead and margins are within reason), you don't want that job
•Don't let the customers dictate what you charge, or let them scare you with "well we've never paid over $X." There's a reason they're looking for another contractor.
•Speaking of finding a new contractor, I ALWAYS ask why they want to replace their old contractor. It lets you know a lot.
•Make sure you get ALL info from the customer before bidding. They could have specific requirements that you didn't know about, and might require more time to complete.


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