# 18+ year old Vboxes



## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Hey guys, so six years ago I inherited three 18+ year old 8' V-boxes from my predecessor (who OBVIOUSLY did not take care of them AT ALL!). We have basically rebuilt them each year, with each year getting less work. Basically I have been wanting to convert them to electric since day one!!! Now I find this thread...

So *PLEASE* help!!!

*HERE IS MY "to-do" LIST:*
- I would like to eliminate the engine (which we upgraded to 13.5 HP B&G's in year one) and replace with an electric motor.
- I would like to eliminate the clutch
- I would like to use our existing gearbox (which are only about a year or two old now)
- I would run these spreaders (both the new motor and their lighting) off of the vehicles' battery
- I would like to add an "easy hookup (like a second trailer plug) from the vehicle to the spreader with a short lead (or group of wires)
- I would like to use a "variable controller" to alter the salt spread
- To this point we have been using wireless remotes for the "gas" spreaders. We would like to continue using them (if possible)

Please list ANY and ALL parts that make this workable for us!

Thank you!!!


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

boy your asking for a unicorn setup. Totally unrealistic concept with all those requirement buy a new sander electric. cost would be the same as new. I left the clutch in place it allows the motor to come to full speed before spinning off the load. 1/2 hp motor 4 gauge wire, 125 amp circuit breaker and 100 amp constant duty silond your done. Mine cost 350 each done


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

"Unrealistic" is NOT impossible! I have myself & 2 techs, a garage full of tools & supplies, and a whole lot of time to do this. Also, the University will, for some reason, spend whatever it takes to keep these running, but will not consider replacing them! (AKA job security )

Thank you, fireside, for this info. Anyone else who wouldn't mind jumping in...

Thanks!


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> "Unrealistic" is NOT impossible! University will, for some reason, spend whatever it takes to keep these running, but will not consider replacing them!


What kind of educators do you have going on over there? You get rewarded for being needless and wasteful? Obviously they don't teach business 101, or the benefits of being pragmatic.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Why in the hell would you want anything wireless, it's more to go wrong. On top of that you want a wireless variable speed controller, are you going to not be near the vehicle when you're salting?
For crying out loud, just buy a boss forge if you want a headache...


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Luther said:


> What kind of educators do you have going on over there? You get rewarded for being needless and wasteful? Obviously they don't teach business 101, or the benefits of being pragmatic.


Oh come on, you dont really think the teachers are the bean counters making the bad financial decisions.

We had a local municipality throw $3700 at rebuilding a belt drive MM1 plow to make it "modern-ish" rather than $4500 to buy a brand new one because the funds that the budget allocated could only be used for "repairs" not "new acquistions"


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

As others have stated, what you want is not cost effective.

However, if you are determined to do it, first think about what you have powering it. Can your vehicle alternator handle the load?

Also, if you want variable speed, are you going to split the conveyor/auger from the spinner and use two motors?

What are the priblems you have been having with msintenance/reliability with the gas motors, and why do you think an electric motor will solve your problems?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

So do you want to convert all 3 of them or just 1? Electric is okay but not for everyone. I'm thinking you might be tripping over a dollar to pick up a dime. I understand you got the shop and the decision is not yours.

You could buy a nice electric SS V box all set up with the controller where you can adjust your chain and spinner for under $1000.00 from a municipality auction. I do work for Hobart & William Smith and Cornell and they make some very not so intelligent decisions.

Maybe with the shop and time just convert to hydro pump clutch. It will be more reliable and perform much better. JMO Good Luck.


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Aerospace Eng, , thank you for the reply! Here are my thoughts:



Aerospace Eng said:


> Can your vehicle alternator handle the load?


Not sure, but my guess would be no. What we have discussed thus far is to either upgrade the alternators OR add a second battery.



Aerospace Eng said:


> Also, if you want variable speed, are you going to split the conveyor/auger from the spinner and use two motors?


Has been discussed, and if that would be the smartest way, then yes.



Aerospace Eng said:


> What are the problems you have been having with maintenance/reliability with the gas motors, and why do you think an electric motor will solve your problems?


Two easy questions, two easy answers:
1. Every year we have to strip the entire back end down (including removing the engine) to clean and prep it for the next season. As we have never had a place to store them inside, we store them outside and cover them. And, even with going out and starting them and lubing them throughout the off season, we still end up having to do this.

2. With us being on a University campus, we have dorm rooms to be aware of during the overnight, and classes during the day. Eliminating all of the extra noise and exhaust will make their jobs easier!

FredG, , thank you for the reply! Here are my thoughts:



FredG said:


> So do you want to convert all 3 of them or just 1?


We will be starting with one, and moving forward accordingly.



FredG said:


> You could buy a nice electric SS V box all set up with the controller where you can adjust your chain and spinner for under $1000.00 from a municipality auction.


Not even an option! Any "request" for a "purchase" like that would have to go through the bean counters, and, no matter how we work to convince them, they never understand!



FredG said:


> I do work for Hobart & William Smith and Cornell and they make some very not so intelligent decisions.


I can only imagine!!!



FredG said:


> Maybe with the shop and time just convert to hydro pump clutch. It will be more reliable and perform much better. JMO Good Luck.


I have never even heard of this option before. Would it be replacing the electric clutch? And how does that factor into this part of the decision?

THANKS GUYS!!!


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

- I would like to eliminate the engine (which we upgraded to 13.5 HP B&G's in year one) and replace with an electric motor.
*We use 1hp permanent magnet motors (rather over-build than under-build)

- I would like to eliminate the clutch 
*Good time to work out gear ratios (count gear teeth, do math etc). Gas motors run over 3k rpms, most dc motors run @ 1800 rpms

- I would like to use our existing gearbox (which are only about a year or two old now)
*Just leave them as is

- I would run these spreaders (both the new motor and their lighting) off of the vehicles' battery
*Again, we go over kill on the wiring (O/2 gauge) and a high quality continuous duty solenoid for on/off mounted in the truck for simple reliable control.

- I would like to add an "easy hookup (like a second trailer plug) from the vehicle to the spreader with a short lead (or group of wires)
*we use the large Anderson style plugs, and by putting the solenoid on the truck side, no control wires are required to the salter

- I would like to use a "variable controller" to alter the salt spread
*This is where things will get tricky. You can use motor controllers but most operate using a rheostat or a set of resistors to make a preset amount of speeds and in the ridiculous conditions that salt trucks are exposed to, you may end up with reliability issues...

- To this point we have been using wireless remotes for the "gas" spreaders. We would like to continue using them (if possible)
*The variable speed option you mentioned above will compound the complexity and reliability of a remote system such as this

Please list ANY and ALL parts that make this workable for us!
-Power wire
-toggle switch, control wiring and Trombetta solenoid
-Anderson connectors
-1hp 12v DC motor
- Correctly sized sprockets and stainless chain (totally worth the extra money)

Thank you!!![/QUOTE]


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Do you actually have a set budget you can use for converting these? Are we legitimately talking "money's no object" or "well, up to $1500 at least it's no object."


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Why in the hell would you want anything wireless, it's more to go wrong.


BossPlow2010, BY FAR, the biggest issue that continually arose during storms was issues with the spreader wiring. The connection on the spreader worked loose; the cable into the vehicle gets ruined EVERY summer; the wires inside, NO MATTER HOW TUCKED AWAY, always got damaged.

Since the day we went wireless, NOT ONE has come back for a wiring issue... IN THREE YEARS!

But, just to be safe, we built in redundancy. We have a "hard-wired" cable standing by, should the remote stop working.

In fact, the only issue we have ever had with the remotes was when we first added the wireless. We were removing the spreader from the vehicle when the "operator" (who was somewhere else on the campus), hit the remote by accident while it was in his pocket. Besides scaring the HELL out of all of us...

Thanks all!


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> BossPlow2010, BY FAR, the biggest issue that continually arose during storms was issues with the spreader wiring. The connection on the spreader worked loose; the cable into the vehicle gets ruined EVERY summer; the wires inside, NO MATTER HOW TUCKED AWAY, always got damaged.
> 
> Since the day we went wireless, NOT ONE has come back for a wiring issue... IN THREE YEARS!
> 
> ...


The problem with wireless is that the entire power supply for the gas spreader is self-contained on the spreader. If you want variable speed for electrical, the entire power supply has to come from the vehicle through the control box in the cab to regulate the voltage before getting to the spreader motors, so there is no wireless way to do that.


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

cwren2472 said:


> Do you actually have a set budget you can use for converting these? Are we legitimately talking "money's no object" or "well, up to $1500 at least it's no object."


Thank you cwren2472 for the question. The truth is, sky's the limit. The only caveat is that it can not be in large increments. In other words, we can spend UP TO $2,500 at a time using only our discretion without requiring approval.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Yes the trucks can run a electric sander. They run at 39amps start and 23 amps running under load. You don’t need a control box to run it. Just flap down or close the rear chute door. I been running single motor units for 10 years no problem.


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

cwren2472 said:


> The problem with wireless is that the entire power supply for the gas spreader is self-contained on the spreader. If you want variable speed for electrical, the entire power supply has to come from the vehicle through the control box in the cab to regulate the voltage before getting to the spreader motors, so there is no wireless way to do that.


I wonder if a trolling motor controller could handle this remotely or if it would just eat itself...
Something like this https://www.wirelesstrollingpro.com/12rp.html


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

cwren2472 said:


> The problem with wireless is that the entire power supply for the gas spreader is self-contained on the spreader. If you want variable speed for electrical, the entire power supply has to come from the vehicle through the control box in the cab to regulate the voltage before getting to the spreader motors, so there is no wireless way to do that.


That makes sense. Thanks!


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Woodenshoe, thank you for all of this info!!!



Woodenshoe said:


> - I would like to eliminate the engine (which we upgraded to 13.5 HP B&G's in year one) and replace with an electric motor.
> *We use 1hp permanent magnet motors (rather over-build than under-build)


_So, I should be looking for a 1hp permanent magnet motor, with a 4" shaft, and 1,800RPM?_​


Woodenshoe said:


> - I would like to eliminate the clutch
> *Good time to work out gear ratios (count gear teeth, do math etc). Gas motors run over 3k rpms, most dc motors run @ 1800 rpms


_FACINATING! That will certainly help!_​


Woodenshoe said:


> - I would like to use our existing gearbox (which are only about a year or two old now)
> *Just leave them as is


_10-4_​


Woodenshoe said:


> - I would run these spreaders (both the new motor and their lighting) off of the vehicles' battery
> *Again, we go over kill on the wiring (O/2 gauge) and a high quality continuous duty solenoid for on/off mounted in the truck for simple reliable control.


_So, something like this? 2/0-2/0-2/0 Hunter Triplex Aluminum Conductor 600V URD_​


Woodenshoe said:


> - I would like to add an "easy hookup (like a second trailer plug) from the vehicle to the spreader with a short lead (or group of wires)
> *we use the large Anderson style plugs, and by putting the solenoid on the truck side, no control wires are required to the salter


_TOO FUNNY!!! That is EXACTLY what I purchased! Good call!_​


Woodenshoe said:


> - I would like to use a "variable controller" to alter the salt spread
> *This is where things will get tricky. You can use motor controllers but most operate using a rheostat or a set of resistors to make a preset amount of speeds and in the ridiculous conditions that salt trucks are exposed to, you may end up with reliability issues...


_NOT a deal breaker!_​


Woodenshoe said:


> - To this point we have been using wireless remotes for the "gas" spreaders. We would like to continue using them (if possible)
> *The variable speed option you mentioned above will compound the complexity and reliability of a remote system such as this


_Understood_​


Woodenshoe said:


> Please list ANY and ALL parts that make this workable for us!


*- Power wire:*
_a LONG 4 gauge battery cable?_​
*- Toggle switch:*
_So now it will be just an on/off system, right?_​
*- Control wiring:*
_Can you please elaborate… (gauge, etc.)_​
*- Trombetta solenoid:*
_Please be more specific (if possible). I Googled this and a ton of different styles came up!_​
*- Anderson connectors:*
_Got 'em!_​
*- 1hp 12v DC motor:*
_Working on that now. Trying to find someone to chat with me so I can ask them questions!_​
*- Correctly sized sprockets:*
_Will probably wait till after we get the motor for this part_​
*- Stainless chain (totally worth the extra money):*
_Been using these for a year now!_​
Thank again!


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mebes said:


> I wonder if a trolling motor controller could handle this remotely or if it would just eat itself...
> Something like this https://www.wirelesstrollingpro.com/12rp.html


Interesting. Perhaps. Max Amps listed is 55 which i think would be a bit low, but an intriguing idea


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Mebes said:


> I wonder if a trolling motor controller could handle this remotely or if it would just eat itself...
> Something like this https://www.wirelesstrollingpro.com/12rp.html


VERY interesting Mebes! Definitely something to consider! It states that they offer the following Maximum Current Capabilities: 30, 40, 45, or 55 Amps. Would that work with a 1HP permanent magnet motor?


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

You can't do central hydraulics?

Obviously more reliable and quiet.


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> You can't do central hydraulics?
> 
> Obviously more reliable and quiet.


1olddogtwo, can you please elaborate on this suggestion...


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

Found a 100amp speed control more suitable for your application than the trolling motor control.
A bit pricey though.

https://snowplowsplus.com/shop/wire...universal-wireless-controller-conversion-kit/


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mebes said:


> Found a 100amp speed control more suitable for your application than the trolling motor control.
> A bit pricey though.
> 
> https://snowplowsplus.com/shop/wire...universal-wireless-controller-conversion-kit/


That's cool - wonder how reliable it is. $500 ain't cheap, but not really out of line at all if it does what it says

Hell, most any variable speed controller by itself will run you upwards of that anyway


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Woodenshoe, so I am chatting with a tech from Oriental Motor, and they stated: "In regards to your inquiry. Unfortunately our 1 HP motors are only available with a gearhead integrated, therefore the max output speed would be 360 rpm (with a 5:1 ratio)".

I asked if they had any suggestions, and they replied: "

They suggested this one, but it has a short shaft...


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

cwren2472 said:


> That's cool - wonder how reliable it is. $500 ain't cheap, but not really out of line at all if it does what it says


OK, so you will not believe me, but that is the SAME WIRELESS CONTROLLER that we have been using, but their gas version!!! Too funny!!!


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

cwren2472 said:


> That's cool - wonder how reliable it is. $500 ain't cheap, but not really out of line at all if it does what it says
> 
> Hell, most any variable speed controller by itself will run you upwards of that anyway


No idea on the quality, but for me at least I would give it a shot since the dealer that sells it is only ~30 min drive from my house and they have saved my butt a couple of times on weekend and after hour parts sales in the past



[email protected] said:


> Woodenshoe, so I am chatting with a tech from Oriental Motor, and they stated: "In regards to your inquiry. Unfortunately our 1 HP motors are only available with a gearhead integrated, therefore the max output speed would be 360 rpm (with a 5:1 ratio)".
> 
> I asked if they had any suggestions, and they replied: "
> 
> They suggested this one, but it has a short shaft...


 The motor you linked is 24 volt...
Maybe they messed up when they were looking at their own inventory thinking you wanted a 24 volt motor.


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Woodenshoe, so I am chatting with a tech from Oriental Motor, and they stated: "In regards to your inquiry. Unfortunately our 1 HP motors are only available with a gearhead integrated, therefore the max output speed would be 360 rpm (with a 5:1 ratio)".
> 
> I asked if they had any suggestions, and they replied: "
> 
> They suggested this one, but it has a short shaft...


If it has a built in gear reduction, you could just get away with using two similarly sized sprockets instead of the 1 huge, 1 tiny that you see in every other photo


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

1olddogtwo said:


> You can't do central hydraulics?
> 
> Obviously more reliable and quiet.





[email protected] said:


> 1olddogtwo, can you please elaborate on this suggestion...


Just like A skid steer runs implements. There's a pump, pipes, and some fluid, and there's even a operator on the inside controlling them.


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Mebes said:


> No idea on the quality, but for me at least I would give it a shot since the dealer that sells it is only ~30 min drive from my house and they have saved my butt a couple of times on weekend and after hour parts sales in the past
> 
> The motor you linked is 24 volt...
> Maybe they messed up when they were looking at their own inventory thinking you wanted a 24 volt motor.


Seems like that was the case...


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Just like A skid steer runs implements. There's a pump, pipes, and some fluid, and there's even a operator on the inside controlling them.


And this would be easier than an electric motor?


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Spend 5-6k in hydraulics to run an 18yo 8' vbox?

LOL


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

We have a few of these motors in use:
https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-1-HP-DC-Permanent-Magnet-Motor-6ML06

We have a few knock off brands that seam to be holding up fairly well:
https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Motor-Electric-Permanent-Magnet/dp/B07DJFGJGJ

This is the type power cable we use (there are cheaper options out there):
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/GRO826721

Here is a very basic wiring layout


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

I will also add that different brand and model V-box spreaders have different results when converting to electric. Some of the cheap vboxes with narrow conveyor chains and small discharge openings struggle to turn with electric due to the weight of the salt trying to cram through the restrictions, yet others worked better than we expected and we had to change sprockets to slow things down...


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Woodenshoe, YOU ARE MY HERO!!!!!

You didn't give me any "I wouldn't do that...", or ""just buy a new one"! Just some basic information to help us move forward.

And now the questions:
1. The shaft on that Dayton motor looks short. Will that be an issue? I thought it needed to be 4".
2. While the cable mentioned looks really good, it won't be an issue running it the length of the vehicle?
3. Will we need to do anything different for the safety lights on the back of the spreader? Or will they be fed by this as well?

Again, THANKS!


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Woodenshoe said:


> Some of the cheap vboxes with narrow conveyor chains and small discharge openings struggle to turn with electric due to the weight of the salt trying to cram through the restrictions, yet others worked better than we expected and we had to change sprockets to slow things down...


There is NOTHING cheap about these! They obviously did not mind spending some money at some point. Therefore I don't think they will have an issue. But, if they do, I know where to find ya! :hammerhead:


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Woodenshoe, YOU ARE MY HERO!!!!!
> 
> You didn't give me any "I wouldn't do that...", or ""just buy a new one"! Just some basic information to help us move forward.


So suggesting to rid yourself of an 18 year old, 8' vbox that you admit was very poorly maintained and upgrading to something more dependable and reliable is poor advise?


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

Motor shaft length has not been an issue on any of our conversions, but every brand of equipment is a little different.
We wire a bright led light into the same wire as the motor, that way whenever you're spreading there is a beam of light shining on the discharge of salt. No light means no power to the spreader (blown fuse, loose connection etc) makes for easy diagnosis.
If everything works well, and you want to get creative, you can look at replacing the solenoid with a variable speed motor controller which would keep all the complicated stuff truckside and have a better chance at reliability and longevity.

You can experiment with this motor:
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200381907_200381907

and run it with this controller:
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641877_200641877


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> 2. While the cable mentioned looks really good, it won't be an issue running it the length of the vehicle?


2/0 wire will carry ~140 amps 25 feet with a 2% drop 13.8V in and 13.5V out.
It should handle a 50 to 100 amp motor easily.


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Woodenshoe said:


> If everything works well, and you want to get creative, you can look at replacing the solenoid with a variable speed motor controller which would keep all the complicated stuff truckside and have a better chance at reliability and longevity.
> 
> You can experiment with this motor:
> https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200381907_200381907
> ...


Q: So why a different motor? Shouldn't we use the "knock off brand" one you listed earlier? It's less than $200! If I'm blowing or burning something up (which I often do), I'd rather it be that one. (lol)

BTW, That "Speed Controller" looks SICK! I can't wait to see you throw that into the diagram.

And, speaking of the diagram, do you have the solenoid mounted on the truck itself? Or on the spreader. We would like it to be in the engine compartment of the vehicle, but don't know if that is the best place to put it.

Oh, and Woodenshoe, thanks again!

Come on guys... we're really doing this!!! Get on board and let's make it happen.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Q: So why a different motor? Shouldn't we use the "knock off brand" one you listed earlier? It's less than $200! If I'm blowing or burning something up (which I often do), I'd rather it be that one. (lol)


Didn't you say money wasn't an issue? Why not buy the more expensive one?


> BTW, That "Speed Controller" looks SICK! I can't wait to see you throw that into the diagram.


You're very wishy washy, Yesterday you wanted wireless but today you want a variable speed controller, but because of job security, you won't convince them to buy new.
That's like the guy that told someone "don't work too hard you'll work us out of a job"

.


> Oh, and Woodenshoe, thanks again!


What about the rest of the posters? oh that's right, you didn't like the advice you heard so it wasn't wasn't worthy.



> Come on guys... we're really doing this!!! Get on board and let's make it happen.


Lol
Also let's see some pictures of this 18 year old v box, I like pictures...


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Luther said:


> Spend 5-6k in hydraulics to run an 18yo 8' vbox?
> 
> LOL





Luther said:


> So suggesting to rid yourself of an 18 year old, 8' vbox that you admit was very poorly maintained and upgrading to something more dependable and reliable is poor advise?


Exactly,

OBVIOUSLY......

This conversation reminds me how BoSS builds their equipment.


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Didn't you say money wasn't an issue? Why not buy the more expensive one?


While money is not an issue, I am not trying to be as stupid as the bean counters. Plus, there's a really good chance that we'll go through more than one trying to get it all correct!



BossPlow2010 said:


> You're very wishy washy, Yesterday you wanted wireless but today you want a variable speed controller, but because of job security, you won't convince them to buy new. That's like the guy that told someone "don't work too hard you'll work us out of a job"


Actually, your the confused one here. I want wireless today as much as I did yesterday. Your words "You can experiment with this motor", ..."and run it with this controller". Since you already KNEW that we wanted to go wireless, I assumed that this was something to help make that happen. Otherwise I don't understand the point.



BossPlow2010 said:


> What about the rest of the posters? oh that's right, you didn't like the advice you heard so it wasn't wasn't worthy.


If you look back at any of my posts, I try to thank everyone. But, once in a while, when someone has devoted a fair amount of time to helping me, I try to make them feel appreciated. My apologies. I will work to do both better.



BossPlow2010 said:


> Also let's see some pictures of this 18 year old v box, I like pictures...


Right now we are in the infant stage of this. We have tried to figure it out before, but never made it past this part. Not confident enough to jump in with both feet. Anyhow, we should be bringing them back up to the shop in a week or so. I WILL have picks then.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR EVERYTHING!


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

OK, 1olddogtwo, first off I have no idea where the idea to use hydraulics came from. That was just a silly suggestion!

Secondly, when Luther said: "So suggesting to rid yourself of an 18 year old, 8' vbox that you admit was very poorly maintained and upgrading to something more dependable and reliable is poor advise?", he wasn't taking into account the work that we have done over the last five years. Remember, it was poorly maintained prior to my starting here. Since then we have torn them down to their bones each year and rebuilt them. And, while two of them are stainless, one is steel. I actually drove that spreader to a contractor two states away who paints farm equipment and had them repaint it.

This is a serious topic that we have been trying to deal with for a long time. You MUST know how frustrating it can be to know the right thing to do, while being directed to do the wrong thing.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.


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## samcarpen (Nov 2, 2010)

Reinventing the wheel can be pricey and time consuming.


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

samcarpen said:


> Reinventing the wheel can be pricey and time consuming.


...and can produce one hell of a nice wheel!!!


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> *- Trombetta solenoid:*
> _Please be more specific (if possible). I Googled this and a ton of different styles came up!_​


​If you don't use the speed controller any of these models will work for full RPM applications.
634_1221-012
114-1211-010
114-1211-020


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Thank you cwren2472 for the question. The truth is, sky's the limit. The only caveat is that it can not be in large increments. In other words, we can spend UP TO $2,500 at a time using only our discretion without requiring approval.


So get a PO for $2500 as repairs for your friendly local spreader dealer. Then once the calm comes back, repeat. That should buy you most of a new electric drive spreader.

Rinse and repeat for the remaining 2 spreaders.

Tada. Problem solved. Don't even have to get dirty beyond changing the harness and controller.


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Mebes said:


> ​If you don't use the speed controller any of these models will work for full RPM applications.
> 634_1221-012
> 114-1211-010
> 114-1211-020


OK, cool. but what if we do go with a speed controller? How would that make a difference with the Solenoid? _(just trying to learn, if you don't mind)
_
Thanks!


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## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> ...and can produce one hell of a nice wheel!!!


Said no one, ever


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## Woodenshoe (Oct 30, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Q: So why a different motor? Shouldn't we use the "knock off brand" one you listed earlier? It's less than $200! If I'm blowing or burning something up (which I often do), I'd rather it be that one. (lol)
> 
> BTW, That "Speed Controller" looks SICK! I can't wait to see you throw that into the diagram.
> 
> ...


We are experimenting with a few of the knock off motors to test longevity. The first one we bought replaced a 7 year old motor that needed an overhaul (brushes bearings) and we were short on time to, so Amazon Prime to the rescue...

That speed controller has its limitations which require a different motor, and possibly changing gear ratios to maintain the material flow rate and spread width you desire. The conversions we do are to make things simple and reliable to operate (no gas cans, no starting fluid, no pull starting b/c of dead batteries). We added a very simple and reliable feature to control flow rates from inside the cab, so the only reason to venture down the road of variable speed controllers would be for spread width. So far the demand for that option has not been high enough to offset the cost, complexity and reliability of our current system.

Projects like these require creative problem solving and a lot of ingenuity because there is no book or instruction manual that will cover every scenario. Just be prepared that when its all said and done, it may not work at all like you thought. We have 8' and 10' spreaders (different brands) with identical electric motors and wiring, but the 8' draws so much power when loaded with 2 yards it will trip a 150 amp breaker, yet the 10' barely dims the headlights with 3.5 yards. Different drive system configuration and different width drag chain and discharge chutes make a huge difference.

I should clearly state that you should only proceed down this road if you are willing and able to deal with its (sometimes steep) learning curve and possible failures (or great successes)! I/we won't have all the answers you may need (or the time required to come up with them) and some lessons are best learned the hard way...


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> OK, cool. but what if we do go with a speed controller? How would that make a difference with the Solenoid? _(just trying to learn, if you don't mind)
> _
> Thanks!


Think incandescent bulb here.

Solenoid control is like a standard light switch. 
Turn it on and off at full brightness (speed)

Speed controller is like a dimmer switch.
Turns it on and off but also controls brightness (speed)


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Woodenshoe said:


> The conversions we do are to make things simple and reliable to operate (no gas cans, no starting fluid, no pull starting b/c of dead batteries).


That IS our end goal here as well!!!



Woodenshoe said:


> We added a very simple and reliable feature to control flow rates from inside the cab...


I'm sorry if I missed that, but what did you do? Oh, are you speaking of the "burst" button?



Woodenshoe said:


> ...so the only reason to venture down the road of variable speed controllers would be for spread width.


Since we do everything on campus, from small one lane roads to HUGE parking lots, we would definitely have the need.



Woodenshoe said:


> Projects like these require creative problem solving and a lot of ingenuity because there is no book or instruction manual that will cover every scenario.


...ahh yes, a lesson I learned when I was young. And, to be clear, we are not looking for a checklist. It is just an area that we have never pursued before, and would like to share some of the knowledge that's already out there. Exactly this sort of information.



Woodenshoe said:


> I should clearly state that you should only proceed down this road if you are willing and able to deal with its (sometimes steep) learning curve and possible failures (or great successes)!


WOW, if you only knew... LOL Some day I'll tell you about my "hand crank tarp roller" idea, so the driver doesn't have to "flip" the tarp around in the weather. There is a chance that it will NEVER work properly! A complete disaster. And, that's after (3) attempts!

As always, thanks!


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Mebes said:


> Think incandescent bulb here.
> 
> Solenoid control is like a standard light switch.
> Turn it on and off at full brightness (speed)
> ...


So, correct me if I am wrong, but if what you're saying is true, then can't the Speed controller just be placed after the Solenoid? Then the Solenoid turns the juice on, and the Speed controller takes over from there.


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

Sure you could but I don't see why you would want to wire it in series like that unless you want it as a safety or something.
You would need to make sure that it was on to power up the sander first then grab a different remote, turn and turn it on as well.
In my head this would be like turning on a switch then having to walk across the room to a different switch to dim the light.

Wired in parallel with the speed controller you could control it with a (momentary on-off-on) 3 position toggle switch.
Momentary for burst when using the speed control, and toggle to on if the speed control failed for redundancy.


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

Mebes said:


> Sure you could but I don't see why you would want to wire it in series like that unless you want it as a safety or something.


Sorry for the stupid questions, but I'm really missing something here. The diagram that Woodenshoe made shows the bat. to one side of the solenoid, and the switch to power the motor on the other side. Would replacing that toggle with a "potentiometer" type switch just "manage" the amount of power going to the motor?

I mean, again in that diagram, the other end of the toggle goes to key on. So turning the key on powers the "potentiometer" type switch. Turning the "potentiometer" type switch on powers the motor. Turn it on more, motor powered more.

Am I wrong about that?


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

The toggle on the diagram just actuates the solenoid, which is an on/off device.

A pot in the solenoid control wire will just cause you to burn up the solenoid without accomplishing anything.


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

OK, I got it!!! And, as it turns out, the remote that Mebes suggested will solve all of this!!! A WIRELESS REMOTE SOLVES SOMETHING!!! Go figure...

From the instruction manual, "The 6000DC Single DC Motor Wireless Controller provides RPM control for up to 1 single, 2 pole, DC motor up to 100AMP (Larger motor or conveyor or auger motor), and an on off circuit for a vibrator or light. The RPM control is done by providing the user 5 speed motor control in 1/5 increments. The 6000DC incorporates an automatic shutdown to protect the motor and electronics."









PLEASE tell me I'm on the right track now...


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## Mebes (Feb 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> PLEASE tell me I'm on the right track now...


Yup the green wire controls both on and off for your motor and speed control.
The yellow wire is for your light.
No solenoid is needed for that application.

If you don't want to use the speed control, then you use the solenoid in it's place.
Your motor will run at full speed all the time, and you adjust your spread by getting out of the truck and manually adjust the feed gate and deflectors around the spinner.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mebes said:


> Yup the green wire controls both on and off for your motor and speed control.
> The yellow wire is for your light.
> No solenoid is needed for that application.
> 
> ...


You can just drive slower for more product per acre or faster for less.


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

hoe about everyone stays on topic...that or, as always, don't post in the thread then, please


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## samcarpen (Nov 2, 2010)

Apologies if this is a little off topic and/or has been brought up. 

You may want to send your specs to Shade and Equipment Specialists and get prices on new units. I was able to quickly sell two used Henderson 2cy mild steel Briggs powered spreaders for $1,500 each. 

University may appreciate viable options after dealing with 18 year old spreaders.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Word of real world advise stay away from any control stuff. On and off all off the shelf Napa parts


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## FourDiamond (Nov 23, 2011)

Bite the bullet and install a controller that allows adjustment for auger speed and spinner speed. At 70.00 plus per ton of salt , you will pay for it in one season, and you will get better salt application.


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

So i got tired of screwing with my airflo gas sander this year and bought a electric conversion off a guy who said it worked good . Brought it home wired it to my truck and it did nothing . Surprise surprise . Only paid 400 for it so kind of expected it . Motor was junk .Opened it up and it was burnt to a crisp . So took it to a rebuilder and he said he said he couldn't rebuild it . So he sold me a new motor for 400 and off i went . Installed it in the machine . Same wiring setup as posted here with solenoid and toggle switch . Yay thought I was good to go . So first storm I fill it up head out to sand and flip the switch and runs for like 2 minutes then stops and starts killing my truck .Amp gage goes down to zero . So I need to at least get it empty so I keep flipping the switch till it gets about halfway empty then it starts working .
So next day I head out to tractor supply and get some chain and a bigger gear to install on the gearbox . I also added another batt in series right on the spreader . So head out next storm and i spreads this time but now its too slow. Pretty much just spreads a little wider than my truck .Which is ok as I mostly plow roads . I guess over the summer I will change the gearing on the spinner and see if I can get a little more distance .

You can see where Im going with this . If you need to do roads and lots I would say your best bet would be to spend a little more and get a variable controller or two motors one for the gearbox and one for the spinner .

On another note . My sons electric spreader needed a new motor and some bearings .Airflo they wanted 1600 for the motor and it needed other work and he didnt feel like doing the work so he bought a new fisher electric . Thats what I should have done too . He used less salt ,got a better spread and had no issues all season .

So as far as re-making the wheel . Its already been done . Just go see your local fisher dealer .


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

FourDiamond said:


> Bite the bullet and install a controller that allows adjustment for auger speed and spinner speed. At 70.00 plus per ton of salt , you will pay for it in one season, and you will get better salt application.


OK, now that sounds like an interesting option! So, would we then need two controllers/remotes? One for each motor? Or would we gear them to adjust speed together off of one controller?

Thanks!


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

Most of the spreaders have one controller That have separate controls in it .One for spinner speed and one for spreader chain speed . Then a button for burst .


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## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2019)

quigleysiding said:


> Most of the spreaders have one controller That have separate controls in it .One for spinner speed and one for spreader chain speed . Then a button for burst .


Thank you, quigleysiding, that makes sense. And when I look at the wireless remote that we were looking at previously, it turns out that they make one for two motors, just as you stated... different motor controls on the same remote. A little more expensive, but possibly a good solution!

Thanks again!


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## quigleysiding (Oct 3, 2009)

Keep us informed .I for one would like to follow along and see what you end up with in the end .


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