# Hand Controller Shifter Mount - Western



## Willybak (Oct 19, 2012)

Hello,

I am new to the plowing business, just got my Western Wide-Out installed, and was very excited when I saw the totally cool looking Western Plow Hand Controller. It is indeed well thought out with respect to button placement and function... and if you are comfortable with having it lay on the seat or in your lap, the deal is complete... for you. But for me... the whole thing seems unworkable if you are steering with your left hand and shifting with the right hand while at the same time fumbling around with the controller... trying to perform some kind of syncopated juggling act.

I think Meyers has a good start on it with their somewhat automated system that can be synced to the shifter so it performs some things without user input. Yet.. even that has limitations.

I have seen a couple of patents online that show the controller buttons built into the shifter handle or other areas of the steering column. Pretty cool, but not in the cards unless a Plow Mfgr and the automakers get into bed together, and I don't think that is going to happen. But... stranger things have happened, like the Ford 5th wheel package.

As I thought more about the Western Hand Controller I became convinced that the right hand steering/controller/shifter routine needed to be further refined.

Since Western's "lay it in your lap" solution appears to be the current limit of their their thinking on the Hand Conroller, I am taking things into my own hands.... or rather... OUT of my right hand.
Since I cannot grow another right arm, I somehow need to bring the shifter and controller into a closer relationship. 
Fortunately the construction of the Western controller lends itself to an easy, cheap, and practical solution. 
A well placed hose clamp and a shifter arm handle that is sufficiently long enough on the end that I can hang/clamp the controller onto... is the ticket.

I know that this solution is not perfect, but it should suffice for now.
The Hose Clamp does not interfere with or contact any of the components in the handle, and the Shifter Arm moves unobstructed throughout the range of of motion.

Western could offer a modified controller; one that does not have the handle on it, but just the head part with the buttons. It should have a place at the edge of the head unit that has a molded curve with slots that has a hose clamp on it which can be fitted over the shifter handle. Yea... I know... not all shifter arms are created equal.

I am not trying to beat up on Western or any plow companies... so please don't jack me for offering my rightful opinion. I know I probably don't have all the facts from the plow makers point of view. So I leave it at that.

If you can use this idea and it helps make your work safer/easier... great.

Sorry for the somewhat low quality photos. Hand held from phone.... leaves something to be desired. If you need more photos I can do it. 
The thing that I think is good to consider is the angle of the cut in the controller for the slots that the hose clamp fits into. The cut angle should follow the circular angle of the clamp. So instead of cutting the slot at a 90 degree angle to the controller handle, they shoud be cut slightly off of 90 degrees, more like 45 or something like that. I did not put an angle finder on it... I just eyeballed it while the clamp was layed over the handle.
The hose clamp I am using extends out to 1 1/2 inches. I took the diameter of the shifter arm and the area needed for the controller slot/arm into consideration. That too was an in store (Lowe's) comparision, holding the hose clamp over the controller handle and allowing for the diameter of the shifter arm (a guestimate). I used a hack saw to cut the slot.
The handle is made of somewhat soft plastic and was easy to cut, so I had to be careful to not over cut the slot. I cut 1/2 of the slot into each side of the handle so that the hose clamp fit somewhat in the middle of the handle.

I would be interested in knowing what you have done if it will help me improve my solution.
Please share.

Regards

Willy


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## randomb0b123 (Jul 14, 2010)

...................be careful you weakened your controler by doing that. id have that busted in less than a week


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## Willman940 (Dec 21, 2008)

I normally have a similar outcome by holding it all the time, and then using my pointer and middle finger to shift.

But to each their own.


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

I hated using the handheld controller my Boss came with so i rewired the joystick controller i used to have with my curtis plow to work on my Boss


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

Also the Boss handheld controller has the option to separate the handle from the control pad so you can mount just the pad on a stand or on its own holder somewhere on the dash. Which is what i did in my chevy, I took the handle off and mounted the pad right behind the shifter so i only have to tap it with my fingers.


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## durafish (Sep 6, 2011)

THEGOLDPRO;1508562 said:


> I hated using the handheld controller my Boss came with so i rewired the joystick controller i used to have with my curtis plow to work on my Boss


how hard was that to do?


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

Not too bad, I Found the plug that Boss uses on their controller at radio shack, So i bought a few, Then i went on Curtis's & Boss's website's and printed out a wiring diagram for the controllers, then just matched up the wires for both. It took maybe a half hour to rewire it.


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## durafish (Sep 6, 2011)

I might have to do that with my fisher seems easy enough.


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## Stik208 (Oct 19, 2004)

THEGOLDPRO;1508562 said:


> I hated using the handheld controller my Boss came with so i rewired the joystick controller i used to have with my curtis plow to work on my Boss


I'm telling Grandview.....no really great idea.


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## Willybak (Oct 19, 2012)

Here's a few more photos of the controller mounted.

It works almost "glove like". No undue strain on the controller since my grip includes it.

Ho ho ho... let it snow!

Willy


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

To each his own I guess. I hope it works out well.


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

That looks like its just in the way now.


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## Andrew010 (Dec 7, 2010)

I'd have that broke within hours....


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## Willybak (Oct 19, 2012)

I guess then... that whether it breaks or not in depends entirely on how I handle it. 
I'll have to resist pulling and jerking on it as if I was wrestling a steer.
Going opt for a firm but measured approach.

As far as it being in the way... it actually feels okay... not like I was having to compete for the shifter or the controller. The combination of the Shifter and the Controller produces an unexpected but welcomed Synergistic feel/result.

I guess that like anything else, it takes some adjustment when you have not done it before.

Also... when not actively plowing, the controller can be easily removed... so I can Shift Away to my hearts content... having the whole shifter arm to work with. 
Oh fun 

I am now ready for the next step... developing a better option to the limited form factor of the Western Hand Controller. I will be looking into 3D Printing... where I can design and then Print a "Housing" for the controller pad. One that can be more readily and firmly attached to the shifter arm. My first step will be to determine whether there is a local company that offers a 3D printing service. That is probably a long shot in Anchorage, Alaska. We have lots of services, but this is probably pushing the envelope. At any rate... I am ready to "push forward" (no pun intended.. really). If no commercial service exists locally, I can check with the University of Alaska Anchorage School of Engineering for some leads.
Last resort... if it is financially reasonable I could purchase a 3D printer. I could also reach out to the "Lower 48" states for more resources. Seattle would be my first bet since it is loaded with tech from computers to aircraft.

If 3D printing proves too unrealistic, I can always look at using some of the small metal casesboxes that you find at contractor electronic/electrical specialty places.
You know... the ones that are used to house switches and so forth. Getting deeper already 

3D Printers available now: 




http://store.makerbot.com/replicator2.html

This one is ONLY $2199.00
And... yet another learning curve... ha ha.

Any of you techs and fabricators out there can chime in anytime with ideas or leads.


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## randomb0b123 (Jul 14, 2010)

amazing how thousands of people managed to survive with the controllers and mount set ups theyre plows came with


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

I run the plow controller with my left hand and steer and shift with my right. I set my controller on my dash when I am not using it. Once you get used to it you don't need to modify anything.


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## Willybak (Oct 19, 2012)

***
Update on Western Plow Hand Controller Modification

I just met with a mechanical engineer here in Anchorage who is in the business of CAD/CAM with 3D Printing capability.
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/sks/3346369526.html

He is going to put put together a quote for me on a case that he can design and manufacture by 3D printing which will house the KeyPad from my Western Plow Hand Controller and fit on the Shifter Arm in my truck.

I will keep you posted.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

_Update on Western Plow Hand Controller Modification

I just met with a mechanical engineer here in Anchorage who is in the business of CAD/CAM with 3D Printing capability.
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/sks/3346369526.html

He is going to put put together a quote for me on a case that he can design and manufacture by 3D printing which will house the KeyPad from my Western Plow Hand Controller and fit on the Shifter Arm in my truck.

I will keep you posted. _

I'd be cautious about the 3-d printer solution, the process doesn't yield the psychical property's a injection mold part does. This means the part from a 3-d printer will be prone to cracking/failure, I'll have little to no chemical resistance and it probably won't have any UV inhibitors so the sun will degrade it. 
Not trying to take a dig at you in anyway, I'm always looking to make improves where ever I can. You said you're new to plowing so I assume this is your first plow on a pickup. Why don't you try using the controller as is, try it with you left and right hands and see if really is that awkward before you try to fix an unknown. I plow with a 5spd stick and a touch pad controller, a set up like mine is where a 3rd arm would be a handy thing but not an option so I adapted and have no issues.


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

No need to re-invent the wheel. Controller in left hand, steering wheel and shifter in the right. That way you can sit back normally. 

One thing about my Fisher joy stick controllers was that you had to reach and sit forward a little to use them and it was uncomfortable. Honestly, I'd use that controller as is. I think you'll find it to be just fine.


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## Willybak (Oct 19, 2012)

Banksy;1509556 said:


> No need to re-invent the wheel. Controller in left hand, steering wheel and shifter in the right. That way you can sit back normally.


Thanks for the feedback. I think I will push forward and perhaps "Improve" the wheel a little.

I am already getting PMs with excellent suggestions and I am learning as I go about what I would like to accomplish. 
It may well be that 3D Printing is not the avenue to a solution. As mentioned, it may be too prone to failure with the current types of materials used in the process. But... there are new materials being used in this area that could be used, like Polycarbonate. We'll see.

On that note.. does anyone have knowledge about CNC Routing?

I am jazzed!!


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## Banksy (Aug 31, 2005)

Here's what I see happening. You are plowing along and need to adjust the blade, then you hit a bump or something and you knock the tranny out of gear or worst case into reverse.

But try it and see. I do like the concept though.


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## mossman381 (Nov 17, 2009)

I honestly think you are creating problems trying to solve a problem that does not exist. Try the controller in your left hand. I have run a 5 speed manual with no problems.


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## mass1589 (Jan 24, 2011)

everyone has their own way of doing things....but isnt the idea of that style controller to be free and not mounted rigid on the dash? thats why i just bought fishstik controller so i can hold it in my right hand and maybe rest my arm on the center console instead of reaching across to my dash.....


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## randomb0b123 (Jul 14, 2010)

mossman381;1509591 said:


> I honestly think you are creating problems trying to solve a problem that does not exist. Try the controller in your left hand. I have run a 5 speed manual with no problems.


110% correct


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## Willman940 (Dec 21, 2008)

Even if you right handed just try holding it in place like I suggested, Most of the people I've ever met plow that way.

Another thing, I could be wrong but, plow able events have you had down there? We've only had 3 here in fairbanks. 

I'd get a few under my belt with the test product before I put money into it. 

As much as it seems like were badgering the crap out of you, were trying to prevent bigger problems.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

A few post up you mentioned Polycarb, it has great impact property's but UV and chemicals resistance in low. On the inside of your controller there should be a recylce code or text. This info tells you what material the controller is made of, you want to use that resin if you're set on using plastic. 
You also asked about CNC Routers, they're pretty cool but have limitations. They're good for soft materials (wood-plastics), they do ok with Aluminum and Steel is out of the question. Their sweet spot is 2-D work and used for cutting plastic sheet stock or in wood working shops.A NC Router would be able to make a prototype providing you have a 3-D CAD model and the CAM software to program.
See if your M.E. has ever heard of Proto Mold http://www.protomold.com/ , what you're wanting to do falls into their business model.
BTW I spent 25yrs as a Journeyman Mold Maker and have a M.E. backgound too, PM me if you want to talk off line.


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## Willybak (Oct 19, 2012)

BUFF;1509675 said:


> A few post up you mentioned Polycarb, it has great impact property's but UV and chemicals resistance in low. On the inside of your controller there should be a recylce code or text. This info tells you what material the controller is made of, you want to use that resin if you're set on using plastic.
> You also asked about CNC Routers, they're pretty cool but have limitations. They're good for soft materials (wood-plastics), they do ok with Aluminum and Steel is out of the question. Their sweet spot is 2-D work and used for cutting plastic sheet stock or in wood working shops.A NC Router would be able to make a prototype providing you have a 3-D CAD model and the CAM software to program.
> See if your M.E. has ever heard of Proto Mold http://www.protomold.com/ , what you're wanting to do falls into their business model.
> BTW I spent 25yrs as a Journeyman Mold Maker and have a M.E. backgound too, PM me if you want to talk off line.


Hey Buff... thanks for the information. 
I checked out CNC Routing and noticed that it lends itself well to sheet work, but not much else. 
Moving on... It is interesting that you mention molding. I have been looking at molding (http://www.smooth-on.com/Prototyping-and-In/c1238/index.html) and see that for a "one off" part, it would probably be the way to go. I also thought about the possibility of making it out of fiberglass, but would probably be messy and difficult since the part is so small.

It may well be that I will end up having the M.E. do the CAD work on the part and I will find someone who can do a rubber mold/injection to get the final product... assuming epoxy resins (or whatever is used) can stand up to intended use. 
Of course it all depends on the final costs involved... for both the CAD design/3D Printout of part prototype and the Mold/Injection of final part.

I could use some input on the above as to whether my thinking is sound.

I am not set on using plastic, it just seems like the logical path.
I have also been thinking about metal construction.. mainly Aluminum.
It may be a good solution too.
Perhaps even less costly than using plastic and the fabrication would seemingly be a lot easier.
I am open to suggestions on that line.

Just to let you know... I have no intention of dumping a lot of money into this project.
I can drop it as quickly as I started it if moving forward would be stupidly expensive.

I plan to do more "field testing" with my current modification of the Hand Controller. But having already done some testing it will be mostly related to the optimum mounting angle for use. My seating is comfortable and I am sitting back while shifting with the controller mounted on the shifter arm. I don't have to reach forward to use it.

Banksy: Thanks for the input. I will remain vigilant and keep the shifter out of reverse.
Also... seating is nice and comfortable. I don't have to lean forward to work the shifter arm or controller.

Hey Mossman: I did try it with the left hand. I am Left Handed and ambidextrous, still... I like the right hand setup more. Thanks for the suggestion.
No matter which way you do it.. there are more tasks than available hands 
I am going to keep the problems to a minimum and if things get too deep... I will use the controller with the modification I have already in place.

Hey Mass: Yea... the controller was designed to be free and not rigid mounted.
I like resting my arm on the center console too  and If I had a center console shifter my controller would mounted on it somehow... like the controls in a fighter jet and the like.
Even the Game Controllers are designed with ease of use in mind. 
The concept of "form follows function" is in play here... or should be.
Hey... maybe I can modify a Game Controller and use it to shift.... steer, and operate the plow... an All In One device! 
I could even put the Volume Control for my Radio in it.
Still more... I could put switches for the Beacon and BackUp Lights on it.
I have used Game Controllers and some of them are incredibly designed.

* * * * * * * * 
Side Note:

I appreciate the input from everyone. I am learning... which is one of my reasons for the post.

And... yes.. many of the methods suggested for using the controllers "as designed" works. 
Just not for me.

Sincerely though... I find that suggestions and ideas offering information, wisdom, and guidance on how to arrive at my intended goal are more desirable.

Maintaining the status-quo does not fit my personality 



randomb0b123;1509360 said:


> amazing how thousands of people managed to survive with the controllers and mount set ups theyre plows came with


I think that the operative word here is "Survived"... and it speaks volumes on many levels.
We "Survived" without plows too. Thankfully we have come a long way since Horse Drawn Plows. 
Once upon a time there was no wheel...and people survived. 
Did you know that Meyers plows once used a hand actuated Hydraulic Jack to lift the Moldboard. Later they added an electric motor to it. And don't forget the Cable Lift arrangements... oh fun.
More recently... controllers were simple switches.
Yet... people "survived".
Wouldn't you agree that Invention and innovation is to be desired over a "this is the way we have always done it" mentality, which in no way inspires creativity and growth?
Haven't we heard many times... "If it ain't broke.. don't fix it"?
Does that also meant that if ain't broke we should not improve it either?
I don't get that at all.

Way back in the good old days... ha... there were no Jet Airliners, TVs, Computers, Remote Controls for EVERYTHING, no Electricity. 
Shall I go on?
Wanna give those things back?
I didn't think so. 
Neither do I


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

The cost to reverse engineer and create a CAD model can run you $3-4K for something basic and more depending on how elaborate you want to go. When you design for plastic injection molding typically you're dealing with a product that you intend on producing thousands of parts. Once you have a CAD model the lowest cost option for plastics is a silicone mold ($7-8K) which will produce a couple dozen parts, next would be a aluminum mold ($12-14K) which would produce up to 50K. The pay back on the upfront investment is when you produce thousands of parts that would cost about $.85-.90 per housing.
If you were to do a machined aluminum housing you still need a CAD model but the design intent would take a completely different path, I can see this running as low as $300-400. To machine the housing you'd be about $150.00 per housing. 
You may be on to something but no matter how you slice or dice it you'd be out of pocket a stack of money. I've done projects like this in the past but in my case I have the background and resources available to build whatever I need. My talents have created some better cool science fair projects and some bad @$$ pinewood derby cars.


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## Willybak (Oct 19, 2012)

I have, as mentioned, considered aluminum construction. 
I could do a mock up of it and then pick up some stock from Lowe's, cut out the pieces, solder/braze it together.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Yeah there's ultra utiliteran too, I just figured by going by the dash in the pics it's a new or newer truck.
Also you can't braze or solder aluminmum and hope it's going to hold, TIG welding or a Spool Gun on a MIG welder is needed.


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## Willybak (Oct 19, 2012)

Buff.... Check this out: http://www.muggyweld.com/?view=super5clip2

I knew that TIG would be the way to go. Maybe though... there is an alternative called Super Alloy 5.
The catch though would be to get all the seams/joints done at roughly the same time since the metal of any nearby joints would melt during any new joint being filled.
Either way... it's a good path.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Well that's pretty cool stuff, heck give it a try it's relatively in-expense and for what you have going on it'd probably do the job.


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## born2farm (Dec 24, 2007)

I think it sounds like a good idea if you can find a way to produce a practical solution. No harm in trying. What works for someone may not work for us all.

Personally with my Boss touch pad controllers I hold the controller in my right hand and can still use that hand to shift with my fingers.


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

born2farm;1510184 said:


> I think it sounds like a good idea if you can find a way to produce a practical solution. No harm in trying. What works for someone may not work for us all.
> 
> Personally with my Boss touch pad controllers I hold the controller in my right hand and can still use that hand to shift with my fingers.


 Agree 100%


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## unhcp (Jan 20, 2010)

interesting thread, I used a joystick for a year or so and just switched a handheld last year and I do sort of understand his problem, let's see how it comes out


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## bravada75 (Oct 27, 2009)

*hand held*

I have a boss and the hand held controller. if you hold it in your right hand u can shift at the same time the cord moves with you dont know why you need to mount it to the shifter. but it looks good just a pain to remove when you are not plowing


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## Willybak (Oct 19, 2012)

Well... it has been a while now and I wanted to share the outcome of my use of the shift mounted Western Hand Controller.

I ended up staying with the original hand controller mounted with the Hose Clamp to the Shift Arm.
Results:
It has worked like magic! 
Never broke broke the plastic housing... at all.
Never accidentally shifted into another gear... not even once.


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