# looking for advice



## Rhinestone Plowboy (Aug 2, 2017)

Hi, Greenhorn here.. Where might I find a snowplow contract/proposal? Landscaping biz is doing great and was kind of proactive and purchased Ford Super Duty's with plows and spreaders..
thanks!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Sorry bud, I had a few too many beer the night I read you old post and I forgot.

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/new-contract.156846/

There is one that someone uploaded at one point


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Rhinestone Plowboy said:


> Hi, Greenhorn here.. Where might I find a snowplow contract/proposal? Landscaping biz is doing great and was kind of proactive and purchased Ford Super Duty's with plows and spreaders..
> thanks!


You're location would be good know since expectations in the West, Midwest, Northeast and mid Atlantic regions all differ.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

The best contract is the one you pay your lawyer to draw up for you. Especially if your running multiple trucks and salting with no experience. Your gonna want to be protected.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

JMHConstruction said:


> Sorry bud, I had a few too many beer the night I read you old post and I forgot.
> 
> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/new-contract.156846/
> 
> There is one that someone uploaded at one point


that is one of my old ones, I have a newer one and paid a lawyer go over it after I cleaned it up and changed things around, streamlined it a little and made reading it easier,

The lawer only had me slightly change some wording in one section and where I sign he had put put 
By, (my name) Member.

If you want a copy let me know, I don't mind sharing.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

ktfbgb said:


> The best contract is the one you pay your lawyer to draw up for you. Especially if your running multiple trucks and salting with no experience. Your gonna want to be protected.


Of course this is the typical default advice, but does anyone actually do this?

If my lawyer wrote my contracts, it would be horribly one sided and no one would ever sign it.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Luther said:


> Of course this is the typical default advice, but does anyone actually do this?
> 
> If my lawyer wrote my contracts, it would be horribly one sided and no one would ever sign it.


Well than you communicate with your lawyer on what YOU want in the contract.i pay my lawyer to go over any contract or lease agreements we sign.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Luther said:


> Of course this is the typical default advice, but does anyone actually do this?
> 
> If my lawyer wrote my contracts, it would be horribly one sided and no one would ever sign it.


Having done business with some large companys the contracts they want to use are all pretty much one sided in their favor.

One example was they wanted me to assume all liabitily for the entire season even on non snow storm days.

I kindly explained to them if they wanted me to assume all liabitily that would mean I would have to moniter their property 24 hours a day for 6 months then it would be another $5,000 dollars added to the to the contract for said monitering
That clause got taken out by them.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

iceyman said:


> Well than you communicate with your lawyer on what YOU want in the contract.i pay my lawyer to go over any contract or lease agreements we sign.


Why would I pay a lawyer to type up the details I want in my contracts when I can do it myself? I would never pay a lawyer to read over any contracts that I sign.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Rhinestone Plowboy said:


> Hi, Greenhorn here.. Where might I find a snowplow contract/proposal? Landscaping biz is doing great and was kind of proactive and purchased Ford Super Duty's with plows and spreaders..
> thanks!


If you're new at this, like others have suggested consulting with your lawyer is a good suggestion. The interweb can also be helpful in finding sample contracts for snow & ice management. SIMA is another good source for sample contract language.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Luther said:


> Why would I pay a lawyer to type up the details I want in my contracts when I can do it myself? I would never pay a lawyer to read over any contracts that I sign.


Not everyone is as smart as you...or can pull oof a ponytail like you can.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not everyone is as smart as you...or can pull oof a ponytail like you can.


If you don't have anything constructive to add....Dont bother...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> If you don't have anything constructive to add....Dont bother...


Mind your own bobber...and understood.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

I'm about as cheap as they come (I'm sure some people on PS might have noticed), and I gladly pay my lawyer to write my original contracts. I change what I need to on job to job. If they job is odd or has something different I'll email her my changers and she sends back a better copy. Charges me an hour for the 15 minutes she probably takes to look at it, but I like the piece of mind.

I don't know why you wouldn't want to make sure you're covered. Costs me a few hundred bucks to get the original made up, and a little over $100 if I decided to take on a job that we don't usually do and need to change major things.

So far I've spent probably ~$1500 on contracts in total, and to me it's worth every penny. To me it's like having insurance, I wouldn't do business without either of them.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Rhinestone Plowboy said:


> Hi, Greenhorn here.. Where might I find a snowplow contract/proposal? Landscaping biz is doing great and was kind of proactive and purchased Ford Super Duty's with plows and spreaders..
> thanks!


Here you go


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

And a proposal


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I had a lawyer who plows snow draw mine up.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Here is residential, I don't use these as much but have one just in case


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Well now that we have the contracts down pat from a 2 month old thread, 
How much should I charge for a 15 acre parking lot


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Well now that we have the contracts down pat from a 2 month old thread,
> How much should I charge for a 15 acre parking lot


LOL I didn't even notice that and that 15 acre lot do it for a 6 pack and a bottle of jim with slim jims !


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> I don't know why you wouldn't want to make sure you're covered.


Your lawyer assures that you are covered because she wrote the contract?


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Kudos to MS for sharing with the OP


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Luther said:


> Your lawyer assures that you are covered because she wrote the contract?


No, she's actually told me the opposite, and that any good lawyer can get around a contract (why I have insurance). I just would rather have the person representing me in court to know what she wrote I guess.

Comes down to that it's worth it for me, and not for you. No harm there. It's like 1 guy saying he wants piece of mind and spends money on a new truck and another guy saying he can save money from a used truck. Neither are necessarily wrong, it's to each their own.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

It's not about saving money. It's whether or not a lawyer has to be involved in creating your contract, which is not necessarily true.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

If I had a ponytail I'd be worried aboot saving money so I have enough for shampoo...


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I had a lawyer who plows snow draw mine up.


I thought lawyers were supposed to be smart. He must not be a good lawyer if he has to make side money plowing...


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I thought lawyers were supposed to be smart. He must not be a good lawyer if he has to make side money plowing...


Understood and Agreed


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

We have a lawyer driving Bulkers for us...Been with the company 35 years...Took the bar and never practiced...Luther has met him


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Defcon 5 said:


> We have a lawyer driving Bulkers for us...Been with the company 35 years...Took the bar and never practiced...Luther has met him


Sure......


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I thought lawyers were supposed to be smart. He must not be a good lawyer if he has to make side money plowing...


He's definitely smart...he likes to plow snow.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> He's definitely smart...he likes to plow snow.


I wouldn't consider that smart....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Defcon 5 said:


> I wouldn't consider that smart....


Smarter than eating an expired gas station egg salad samich....


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Smarter than eating an expired gas station egg salad samich....


But I don't have an advanced degree and I'm a Union Monkey...


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Luther said:


> Of course this is the typical default advice, but does anyone actually do this?
> 
> If my lawyer wrote my contracts, it would be horribly one sided and no one would ever sign it.


Most in the construction industry do. So yes. I paid to have my various contracts worded correctly so that they will stand up in court if the day ever comes.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> Most in the construction industry do. So yes. I paid to have my various contracts worded correctly so that they will stand up in court if the day ever comes.


And P. S. Customers hardly ever read contracts. Of course it's one sided. The contractor is the one taking the risk.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Luther said:


> Why would I pay a lawyer to type up the details I want in my contracts when I can do it myself? I would never pay a lawyer to read over any contracts that I sign.


Who the hell would do that? You have a standard contract where the customer info is plugged in and the scope of work and payment agreements are plugged in.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

ktfbgb said:


> And P. S. Customers hardly ever read contracts. Of course it's one sided. The contractor is the one taking the risk.


I go over the contract with my new customers to make sure they understand it and if they have any questions.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

BossPlow2010 said:


> I go over the contract with my new customers to make sure they understand it and if they have any questions.


As do I. I point to each section and say this means this and that means that. Then take time on paymrnt terms and scope of work.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> No, she's actually told me the opposite, and that any good lawyer can get around a contract (why I have insurance). I just would rather have the person representing me in court to know what she wrote I guess.


You've never been sued before have you? Your lawyer, who worded your contract will not be representing you in court. Your insurance carrier will asign one of their lawyers to defend you and negotiate the case. You have no control whether they settle the claim out of court (which in most cases do) or whether it goes to trial.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

ktfbgb said:


> Who the hell would do that? You have a standard contract where the customer info is plugged in and the scope of work and payment agreements are plugged in.


Of course I have a contract template. My SOW doesn't change. I may modify the contract somewhat to accommodate a unique detail or request for the client, or I'll create an addendum to the contract. For the most part the only change will be the date of the contract, client name, the type of agreement it is (per push, per app, seasonal, all inclusive, tiered agreement etc) the length of the contract, the pricing and possibly the terms. Those are all minor changes. I certainly don't need to pay a lawyer to do any of that.


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Don't misundstand me. I have nothing against consulting with a lawyer. I think most people here should until they have a clear understanding of things. Contracts are not complicated. There's really only four things you need to cover for it to be valid. An offer, an acceptance, a consideration and an intention of legal consequences. The courts must enforce a valid contract as it is made unless there are grounds that bar its enforcement. I don't need a lawyer to make any changes to my contract.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Luther said:


> Don't misundstand me. I have nothing against consulting with a lawyer. I think most people here should until they have a clear understanding of things. Contracts are not complicated. There's really only four things you need to cover for it to be valid. An offer, an acceptance, a consideration and an intention of legal consequences. The courts must enforce a valid contract as it is made unless there are grounds that bar its enforcement. I don't need a lawyer to make any changes to my contract.


I told you that you were smart.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Defcon 5 said:


> We have a lawyer driving Bulkers for us...Been with the company 35 years...Took the bar and never practiced...Luther has met him


Is the lawyer driving bulkers , the lawyer who wrote marks contract, and luther all the same person?


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Freshwater said:


> Is the lawyer driving bulkers , the lawyer who wrote marks contract, and luther all the same person?


Clearly nobody wants to answer this. I withdraw this question then, carry on..lol.


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