# CDL for a pickup



## fordplower (Sep 22, 2008)

hey guys

i have been told i need a CDL and DOT# for my 3/4 ton and 14,000# gooseneck or 12,000# skidloader trailer 

Can anyone help me?


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## grsp (Oct 19, 2008)

*are you kidding?*

i have to say that this is a topic that chaps my ass the most. don't get me wrong, we all had to start somewhere. but lets all compete at the same legal requirements. so the answer to your question is YES. you need DOT numbers, insurance, and pay taxes. it is against the law to operate without any of the above mentioned. so is it fair that you can work for $45 an hour, and not pay for any of the above mentioned. not trying to be an *******, but the fly-by-nighters are ruining this industry.

p.s. - what are you using all this equipment for in the summer that doesn't require a DOT number?


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## Plowfast9957 (Feb 14, 2005)

I have to ask why people always ask this question. Why not just get the license and not have to worry about it? If a cop does pull you over its just one less thing he can write you up for.


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

grsp;622613 said:


> i have to say that this is a topic that chaps my ass the most. don't get me wrong, we all had to start somewhere. but lets all compete at the same legal requirements. so the answer to your question is YES. you need DOT numbers, insurance, and pay taxes. it is against the law to operate without any of the above mentioned. so is it fair that you can work for $45 an hour, and not pay for any of the above mentioned. not trying to be an *******, but the fly-by-nighters are ruining this industry.
> 
> p.s. - what are you using all this equipment for in the summer that doesn't require a DOT number?


panties in a bunch? guy asked a simple question. Looks like your making quite a leap here with that statement.


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

I believe in NY trailer over 10,001 requires CDL A. Double check in your state. Mine are all 9900 or therabout.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

I see by your sig you are in wisc.
https://li-public.fmcsa.dot.gov/LIVIEW/PKG_REGISTRATION.prc_option

The system has determined that you need to file a Form MCS-150 (Motor Carrier Identification Report). (aka gets you a USDOT number)

It says you do. (fill it in yourself, I just guessed at your situation)
So, you do need a USDOT number (free BTW, just a lot of paperwork to track)

CDL would be for your state, check your DMV for Wisc web site, it will tell you. In some states the more than 10,000lb trailer throws you into CDL land, but not typically.

According to fmcsa.dot.gov

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/registration-USDOT.htm

2. 
I am an intrastate non-hazardous-materials motor carrier (my cargo or vehicle NEVER leaves the state that I am registered in). Do I need a USDOT Number? 431

The answer varies from state to state. In most states, intrastate non-hazardous-material motor carriers do not require a USDOT Number, but several States participate in programs such as PRISM, which does require intrastate motor carriers, with or without HazMat, to have a USDOT Number. If you do not know whether your state requires intrastate motor carriers to have a USDOT Number, contact the Office of Motor Carrier Safety field office in your state. For a listing of State offices, go to the FMCSA Field Roster.

30. 
How do I determine whether I am subject to FMCSA's safety regulations? 101

If you operate any of the following types of commercial motor vehicles in *interstate *commerce you must comply with the applicable U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) safety regulations concerning: CDL: controlled substances and alcohol testing for all persons required to possess a CDL: driver qualifications (including medical exams); driving of commercial motor vehicles; parts and accessories necessary for safe operations; hours of service; and inspection, repair and maintenance.

(1) A vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating (whichever is greater) of 4,537 kg (10,001 lb) or more;

(2) A vehicle designed or used to transport between 9 and 15 passengers (including the driver) for compensation;

(3) A vehicle designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers; or

(4) Any size vehicle used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act (49 U.S.C. 5101 et seq.) and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR chapter I, subchapter C).

HTH


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## grsp (Oct 19, 2008)

no, panties aren't in a bunch. but thanks for asking. and maybe my response was a drastic leap, but fair is fair. the market is swamped with joe the homeowners that decide to throw a plow on his truck. don't get me wrong, plenty of work for everyone. just play by the rules. for example, everyone knows, work-comp rates for our industry is one of the highest. i guess i am just irritated. received a ticket last week for not having emergency triangles in 1 of my DOT numbered trucks. can you believe a $150 fine. maybe this should go into a different topic.


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## 042500hd (Oct 10, 2004)

grsp;622613 said:


> i have to say that this is a topic that chaps my ass the most. don't get me wrong, we all had to start somewhere. but lets all compete at the same legal requirements. so the answer to your question is YES. you need DOT numbers, insurance, and pay taxes. it is against the law to operate without any of the above mentioned. so is it fair that you can work for $45 an hour, and not pay for any of the above mentioned. not trying to be an *******, but the fly-by-nighters are ruining this industry.
> 
> p.s. - what are you using all this equipment for in the summer that doesn't require a DOT number?


  WOW. 
CDL requirements and DOT numbers are on a state by state basis. Are you sure about the requirements of his state. In NY I believe it's based on your truck or truck and trailer weight combination 10,001 lbs. and you need a Class B I think. My wife would know better as she had doen some teaching for the NYS DOT. He didn't ask about insurance. I know a couple small landscape contractors that work on $40-$50 an hour and fair just fine paying for all the above that you mentioned. They're not getting rich but they're doing ok.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

grsp;622613 said:


> i have to say that this is a topic that chaps my ass the most. don't get me wrong, we all had to start somewhere. but lets all compete at the same legal requirements. so the answer to your question is YES. you need DOT numbers, insurance, and pay taxes. it is against the law to operate without any of the above mentioned. so is it fair that you can work for $45 an hour, and not pay for any of the above mentioned. not trying to be an *******, but the fly-by-nighters are ruining this industry.
> 
> p.s. - what are you using all this equipment for in the summer that doesn't require a DOT number?


Maybe you need to go out and kick the dog a couple of times to cool off


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## NBI Lawn (Oct 15, 2007)

In MN you need one for any vehicle combination 26,001lbs+. You technically also need a health card to pull ANY type of trailer used for profit, meaning if you have Joe Blow pulling your mowing trailer he needs a health card. This is only for commercial applications, you can pull a 15,000lbs camper all day with a class C


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

NBI Lawn;622767 said:


> In MN you need one for any vehicle combination 26,001lbs+. You technically also need a health card to pull ANY type of trailer used for profit, meaning if you have Joe Blow pulling your mowing trailer he needs a health card. This is only for commercial applications, you can pull a 15,000lbs camper all day with a class C


so what are you saying, everyone should buy a camper and put skid steers in it? some lawnmowers?
sounds good to me. Good thinking i think you got a great idea there.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

I believe the answer is yes and yes. And I agree, why don't you just go out and get a CDL and then there will be no worries if one is needed or not.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

fordplower;622588 said:


> hey guys
> 
> i have been told i need a CDL and DOT# for my 3/4 ton and 14,000# gooseneck or 12,000# skidloader trailer
> 
> Can anyone help me?


You DO need a DOT number

You DONT need a CDL for that weight combo

If your truck and trailer add up to be over 26,001 lbs or over than you DO need one

If your trucks is 26,000 or less and the trailer is 10,000 or less than you DONT need one

Does this help?


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## DBL (Aug 27, 2005)

gvw over 26k (this means 26001) combination or not


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## WetChicken (Dec 23, 2006)

As I know it, anything with a GCVW over 10k needs numbers, and a DOT card.
A CDL is needed for 26k+. A CDL is not needed if under 26k, even if it has air brakes. Been there, done the latter- it is a fact.
So, even if you are hauling a car, hay, or whatever for yourself, DOT will see that trailer and expect you to have numbers, DOT card, etc.
Spend a few dollars now and save yourself the hassle. Call your local friendly DOT and forget us clowns and get the right answers. =] I have found most officers are friendly enough even if you stop at scales that are open.

BTW I did 47k miles in the last year or so in a TT.


Jason


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## musclecarboy (Aug 19, 2007)

Yeah even if you pull 10,001# with your minivan (I know, its just an example) you need numbers. If the vehicle alone has a GVW or GCVW of 26,001 then you need numbers.

Wierd example... if you pull 8k# with a 19k# F-550, you need numbers. Either vehicle alone won't need them, but combined its over the 26k mark.


Just get the damn CDL and don't worry about it, I'm getting mine next spring.


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## lumps (Sep 3, 2005)

Wow, some of you guys really jumped down his throat on this one. He never said he was trying to get away without getting the stuff, just asking if it was required for his particular situation.


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## NBI Lawn (Oct 15, 2007)

bribrius;622770 said:


> so what are you saying, everyone should buy a camper and put skid steers in it? some lawnmowers?
> sounds good to me. Good thinking i think you got a great idea there.


I am saying that any Joe blow can pull a huge trailer for recreation but the second you try pulling anything, such as a lawn mower, for hire you need at minimum a health card.

Also, FYI you do need an air brake endorcement under 26K. Thats why you typically dont see trucks under 26K with air brakes.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

grsp;622613 said:


> i have to say that this is a topic that chaps my ass the most. don't get me wrong, we all had to start somewhere. but lets all compete at the same legal requirements. so the answer to your question is YES. you need DOT numbers, insurance, and pay taxes. it is against the law to operate without any of the above mentioned. so is it fair that you can work for $45 an hour, and not pay for any of the above mentioned. not trying to be an *******, but the fly-by-nighters are ruining this industry.
> 
> p.s. - what are you using all this equipment for in the summer that doesn't require a DOT number?


Holy cow man, take a Valium. I can sort of understand the DOT #, but the CDL question is debatable.



bribrius;622630 said:


> panties in a bunch? guy asked a simple question. Looks like your making quite a leap here with that statement.


I'm still liking you bri, see what a good influence SF, PJ and I can be?



NBI Lawn;622767 said:


> In MN you need one for any vehicle combination 26,001lbs+. You technically also need a health card to pull ANY type of trailer used for profit, meaning if you have Joe Blow pulling your mowing trailer he needs a health card. This is only for commercial applications,


Thank you, someone else who understands it the way I do.



blowerman;622783 said:


> I believe the answer is yes and yes. And I agree, why don't you just go out and get a CDL and then there will be no worries if one is needed or not.


Because it might not be just a matter of 'me' getting the license, but also a matter of who operates that vehicle\combo and whether or not he now has to get into all the crap that goes along with CDL drivers and the med cards. Gets really expensive quick.



cretebaby;622807 said:


> You DO need a DOT number
> 
> You DONT need a CDL for that weight combo
> 
> ...


Same way I understand it and have been told.

fordplower, your first name wouldn't happen to be scott, would it?


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## MSS Mow (Mar 19, 2006)

grsp;622613 said:


> i have to say that this is a topic that chaps my ass the most. don't get me wrong, we all had to start somewhere. but lets all compete at the same legal requirements. so the answer to your question is YES. you need DOT numbers, insurance, and pay taxes. it is against the law to operate without any of the above mentioned. so is it fair that you can work for $45 an hour, and not pay for any of the above mentioned. not trying to be an *******, but the fly-by-nighters are ruining this industry.
> 
> p.s. - what are you using all this equipment for in the summer that doesn't require a DOT number?


Holy crap, dude. Take a freakin chill pill. If the guy knew the answer, he probably wouldn't have asked the question.

Also, if he knew you'd be such a dick, he probably wouldn't have asked either. If you don't want to answer, then don't. But don't answer and then be a complete as*hole!!

He may be completely legal and work for $30 an hour. So be it. Good for him. But don't sh*t on him about a whole bunch of other crap when he only asked one question.


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## fordplower (Sep 22, 2008)

fordplower, your first name wouldn't happen to be scott, would it?  [/QUOTE]

...................


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

fordplower;623577 said:


> fordplower, your first name wouldn't happen to be scott, would it?


...................[/QUOTE]

Well, let me just say I think you are correct. And I backed it up with some more info. Not sure where it will lead, but it looked like you needed some help.


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## WetChicken (Dec 23, 2006)

NBI Lawn;623468 said:


> I am saying that any Joe blow can pull a huge trailer for recreation but the second you try pulling anything, such as a lawn mower, for hire you need at minimum a health card.


I agree 100%, it is BS that these white hared ancient artifacts can drive around in a 40,000 camper on an operators license. At least have a camper endorsement!


NBI Lawn;623468 said:


> Also, FYI you do need an air brake endorcement under 26K. Thats why you typically dont see trucks under 26K with air brakes.


Ok, this is not up for discussion. Before I had my B, I drove a Ryder rental truck with air brakes, and it was registered for 25,999#. I went through many scales and inspections with this truck without a problem. Also, why would Ryder put an illegal truck on the road?

Jason


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

NBI Lawn;623468 said:


> Also, FYI you do need an air brake endorcement under 26K. Thats why you typically dont see trucks under 26K with air brakes.


FYI, no, you don't.

Question 4: Is a CDL required for a commercial motor vehicle (truck) equipped with air brakes, even though the weight rating is 26,000 pounds or less?

Guidance: No. Air brakes do not establish any requirements for CDL.

http://www.truckingsafety.org/

If the truck does not require a CDL licensure, they can not require an endorsement. I know a gentleman (retired sheriff's deputy) who argued the air brake endorsement requirement at the Indiana weigh station and won. They attempted to ticket him and when he pointed out the wording, they gave up.

As the motor carrier officer pointed out, if the truck does not require a CDL level of license, you can't get an endorsement on a normal operators license.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

So you agree with me on not needing a CDL when the truck is under 26 and the trailer is under 10 because i think this where a lot of confusion starts


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## WetChicken (Dec 23, 2006)

Something that I didn't think of until now, if you are over 10k, you need to run a logbook, or have documentation of hours worked at the home office. If the latter, it is a 100 air mile radius with your yard as the center point, and you have 16 hours to do your duties.
So if you punch in and out every day, and stay within that circle you are exempt from running a log book.
Oh, don't forget to do an inspection and properly document it so you can present it to the nice officer. :salute:


Jason


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

I have been meaning to bring this up but have not got around to it but the way i have read this is even when you dont have to log you still have to abide by the hours of service which would make for pretty short plowing routes


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## musclecarboy (Aug 19, 2007)

cretebaby;623677 said:


> So you agree with me on not needing a CDL when the truck is under 26 and the trailer is under 10 because i think this where a lot of confusion starts


Correct. BUT if both are under the respective limits but combined are 26k+, you need the CDL


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## fordplower (Sep 22, 2008)

cretebaby;623677 said:


> So you agree with me on not needing a CDL when the truck is under 26 and the trailer is under 10 because i think this where a lot of confusion starts


this is the way i understand it but i being told im wrong


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

fordplower;623715 said:


> this is the way i understand it but i being told im wrong


Doesn't seem that way anymore, at least from one person.

I would agree with cretebaby and the others.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

WetChicken;623682 said:


> Something that I didn't think of until now, if you are over 10k, you need to run a logbook, or have documentation of hours worked at the home office. If the latter, it is a 100 air mile radius with your yard as the center point, and you have 16 hours to do your duties.
> So if you punch in and out every day, and stay within that circle you are exempt from running a log book.
> Oh, don't forget to do an inspection and properly document it so you can present it to the nice officer. :salute:
> 
> Jason


It's 150 air mile radius
But you do have to have written record of your hours worked. They make log books specifically for this, all they have is time in and out.
Try JJ Keller, they have all the log books.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

cretebaby;623701 said:


> I have been meaning to bring this up but have not got around to it but the way i have read this is even when you dont have to log you still have to abide by the hours of service which would make for pretty short plowing routes


They don't call them "comic books" for nothing.


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

You think the post is not reasonable, I have read many that are worse than this one. Lighten up! In New York you need a CDL class B for any vehicle over 26,000 and any trailer 10,000 or less or any vehicle 26,000. You will need air for any vehicle with air. You need a class A for any vehicle over 26,000 and any trailer over 10,000. These number are for the rating of the truck and trailer or registered weight not the payload. So if you have a pick up rated under 26,000, like you do and a trailer over 10,000 like yours you need a CDL A. CDL B is not good enough because of the trailer. What you take your test in is what you are legal for, so a truck over 26,000 and a trailer over 10,000 but no air is not the same as a over the road tractor. They have restrictions and endorsements to get you as close as posible to what you tested in.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

John Mac;623938 said:


> You will need air for any vehicle with air. So if you have a pick up rated under 26,000, like you do and a trailer over 10,000 like yours you need a CDL A. a truck over 26,000 and a trailer over 10,000 but no air is not the same as a over the road tractor. QUOTE]
> 
> NO, NO, and NO


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## ServiceOnSite (Nov 23, 2006)

cretebaby;622807 said:


> You DO need a DOT number
> 
> You DONT need a CDL for that weight combo
> 
> ...


not trying to start a war but it works off of gvw. in ny if you have a truck of 12000gvw (most dully trucks) and a trailer with a gvw of 14000+ gvw putting you at 26,000+gvw ( dosent matter if empty or not ) you are subject to needing a class a and all of the things that go with it - log book, health card if intrA state not intER state, Dot Numbers are required if you are doing business at any time and over 10,000 pounds.

yes its easy to just sit there and say get the class a. i have to do it myself just havent found the time. ( i know ill find the time once i get popped for not having it )

If combined gvw's are less than 26,000 than you dont need the class a. class b is just for trucks that have a gvw of 33,000 and less single axel airbrake not pulling anything. if you pull anything and have a combined gvw of 26,000+ then you need the a class. PERIOD and if you dont believe pick up the phone press 411 ask for the dot field office number, ask for the supervisor, and ask him as they will be the ones handing you the ticket.:waving:


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Class A:

For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 pounds provided the GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of the towed vehicle(s) is more than 10,000 pounds.

Class B:

For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any single vehicle with a GVWR , actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 pounds, or such vehicle towing a vehicle with a GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of 10,000 pounds or less.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ServiceOnSite;624002 said:


> not trying to start a war but it works off of gvw. in ny if you have a truck of 12000gvw (most dully trucks) and a trailer with a gvw of 14000+ gvw putting you at 26,000+gvw ( dosent matter if empty or not ) you are subject to needing a class a and all of the things that go with it - log book, health card if intrA state not intER state, Dot Numbers are required if you are doing business at any time and over 10,000 pounds.
> 
> yes its easy to just sit there and say get the class a. i have to do it myself just havent found the time. ( i know ill find the time once i get popped for not having it )
> 
> If combined gvw's are less than 26,000 than you dont need the class a. class b is just for trucks that have a gvw of 33,000 and less single axel airbrake not pulling anything. if you pull anything and have a combined gvw of 26,000+ then you need the a class. PERIOD and if you dont believe pick up the phone press 411 ask for the dot field office number, ask for the supervisor, and ask him as they will be the ones handing you the ticket.:waving:


So what happens when I am perfectly legal running my combo under 26K and but my trailer is over 10K which is not required in my state and I travel through NY?

Think you're wrong and I know you're wrong on the 33K part. 26,001 is the magic number for all trucks, 10,001 for trailers. If you think you're right, find that on the web and post it.

Then read this site from the Feds which oversee the commercial vehicle and make the regs and explain where the rest of us are wrong.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/cdl/cdl.htm

PS You'll notice nothing is said about 33K vehicles.

Here's what I could find on a quick search:

http://www.cdl-course.com/faq-ny.html

_When do I need a New York CDL instead of my regular New York Drivers License?
A New York CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding._

Once again, nothing about 33K vehicles. You'll also want to take notice of #2. Looks remarkably similar to the link from the FMCSA site.

Here's what I found on the nysdmv site. Near as I can tell, it's the official one.

http://www.nysdmv.com/broch/cdl/cdl10sec01.pdf


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

DONT forget this part

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), actual weight, or registered 

a 26k truck is under CDL but if you 26010 you need a CDL (and a overweight ticket LOL)


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

grsp;622677 said:


> no, panties aren't in a bunch. but thanks for asking. and maybe my response was a drastic leap, but fair is fair. the market is swamped with joe the homeowners that decide to throw a plow on his truck. don't get me wrong, plenty of work for everyone. just play by the rules. for example, everyone knows, work-comp rates for our industry is one of the highest. i guess i am just irritated. received a ticket last week for not having emergency triangles in 1 of my DOT numbered trucks. can you believe a $150 fine. maybe this should go into a different topic.


Last time I bought tri-angles, they cost me $59.99. Once in the truck, why take'em out? Who should I be mad at if I don't have'em in my truck, me or the cop? If I got that ticket I be kicking MYSELF in the a$$,


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## WetChicken (Dec 23, 2006)

LoneCowboy;623779 said:


> It's 150 air mile radius
> But you do have to have written record of your hours worked. They make log books specifically for this, all they have is time in and out.
> Try JJ Keller, they have all the log books.


LC, Does 47,000 miles OTR in the last year or so, and a logging program that DOT accepted ok to get my information from? Try entering "hours of service 100 air miles" into Google and you tell me that the FMCSA is wrong. 
And what I said is you have to have proof of your hours worked, whether it's in a logbook with you or on a time card at the office- either way it doesn't matter. I have run both ways at different jobs, and I have run exempt at more than one place. 


John Mac;623938 said:


> You will need air for any vehicle with air.


Incorrect. The state of NY, or commonwealth, or whatever they are can not make laws on this since commercial licensing is regulated by federal laws.


> PS You'll notice nothing is said about 33K vehicles.


This comes up because this is the maximum GVW allowed by law of a two axle vehicle, like a six wheeler. There are ways around that, but that's the short and skinny.

If anyone has XM, listen to Trucking Bozo and Bubba Bo on channel 173 from midnight to 5 AM every night for trucking news and chat. Also listen to Kevin Rutherford on XM171 from 4 PM to 7PM on the weekends, and every night from Midnight to 1 AM for trucking business. All times Eastern.
The first show has news and hot topics and it's like sitting around chatting over a coffee. Kevin Rutherford's show I have found to be priceless- Kevin talks about all aspects of trucking business and I think people here could benefit from his show.

Jason


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## Midwest BuildIt Inc (Nov 14, 2004)

Not to sound like a jerk, but who cares at this point, Do any of you look to see where the person asking the question is from before you answer his question? Some of you guys just throw out the answer like its the same for every state. All you do is confuse the poor guy. And that first guy that answered, seriously, your new here and didnt even answer his question. just gave him a hard time about plowing for cheap or something.


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## rfed32 (Nov 4, 2005)

pa for what they tell me its by weight of truck or weight of truck and trailer...as far as cdl's did ever think you needed a cdl to plow...i plow with a pick-up and maybe thats why but would have never thought that, and i know a lot of the guys that plow with us dont have a cdl

and bnc ur right...im just lettin him know about pa...but ever state is different for a lot of there codes and regulations so i would check with your local tag offices or dmv im sure they can point u in the right direction


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BNC SERVICES;624295 said:


> Not to sound like a jerk, but who cares at this point, Do any of you look to see where the person asking the question is from before you answer his question? Some of you guys just throw out the answer like its the same for every state. All you do is confuse the poor guy. And that first guy that answered, seriously, your new here and didnt even answer his question. just gave him a hard time about plowing for cheap or something.


Yes, I do, but these are federal regs that are the same across the country so truckers don't have to go through 50 different tests for each state they might pass through. The law is the law in all the states. So it really doesn't matter where you are from, other than the DOT number on the truck requirement.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

Wow, a trip to the states DMV web site would have gotten the answer faster and without all the sarcasem. I see you are from WI also, but Mark is correct. These are federal rules across the country.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

blowerman;624356 said:


> Wow, a trip to the states DMV web site would have gotten the answer faster and without all the sarcasem. I see you are from WI also, but Mark is correct. These are federal rules across the country.


wasnt a little of that sarcasm from you


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

WetChicken;624277 said:


> LC, Does 47,000 miles OTR in the last year or so, and a logging program that DOT accepted ok to get my information from? Try entering "hours of service 100 air miles" into Google and you tell me that the FMCSA is wrong.
> Jason


You're right, I'm wrong

I copied the relevant portion of the law
But look what else i found,

e) Short-haul operations.

(e)(1) 100 air-mile radius driver. A driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.8 if:

(e)(1)(i) The driver operates within a 100 air-mile radius of the normal work reporting location;

(e)(1)(ii) The driver, except a driver-salesperson, returns to the work reporting location and is released from work within 12 consecutive hours;

(e)(1)(iii)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 10 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty;

(e)(1)(iii)(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 8 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty;

(e)(1)(iv)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 11 hours maximum driving time following 10 consecutive hours off-duty; or

(e)(1)(iv)(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 10 hours maximum driving time following 8 consecutive hours off duty; and

(e)(1)(v) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing:

(e)(1)(v)(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day;

(e)(1)(v)(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day;

(e)(1)(v)(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day; and

(e)(1)(v)(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently.

(e)(2) Operators of property-carrying commercial motor vehicles not requiring a commercial driver's license. Except as provided in this paragraph, a driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.3 and §395.8 and ineligible to use the provisions of §395.1(e)(1), (g) and (o) if:

(e)(2)(i) The driver operates a property-carrying commercial motor vehicle for which a commercial driver's license is not required under part 383 of this subchapter;

*(e)(2)(ii) The driver operates within a 150 air-mile radius of the location where the driver reports to and is released from work, i.e., the normal work reporting location; *

(e)(2)(iii) The driver returns to the normal work reporting location at the end of each duty tour;

(e)(2)(iv) The driver has at least 10 consecutive hours off duty separating each on-duty period;

(e)(2)(v) The driver does not drive more than 11 hours following at least 10 consecutive hours off-duty;

(e)(2)(vi) The driver does not drive:

(e)(2)(vi)(A) After the 14th hour after coming on duty on 5 days of any period of 7 consecutive days; and

(e)(2)(vi)(B) After the 16th hour after coming on duty on 2 days of any period of 7 consecutive days;

(e)(2)(vii) The driver does not drive:

(e)(2)(vii)(A) After having been on duty for 60 hours in 7 consecutive days if the employing motor carrier does not operate commercial motor vehicles every day of the week;

(e)(2)(vii)(B) After having been on duty for 70 hours in 8 consecutive days if the employing motor carrier operates commercial motor vehicles every day of the week;

(e)(2)(viii) Any period of 7 or 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours.

(e)(2)(ix) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing:

(e)(2)(ix)(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day;

(e)(2)(ix)(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day;

(e)(2)(ix)(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day;

(e)(2)(ix)(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

now try to fit your plow schedule into all that jibrish

i am not that by the book but this could be a problem in the dreaded lawsuit


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Ford Plower this is *not *specifically aimed at you. BUT at PLowsite MEMBERS (O BOY hear comes the mail)
Ask us about what plow we like or how to fix that problem or how do we deal with this or that. But legal advice!!!!!!!! DONT come onto plowsite and ask a bunch of idiots (we are that, just look at the answers you got) about the LAWS in *your state *go get official answers from official people. What are you going to do when you get stopped say*"But officer on plow site I was told I'm legal"*

Many of the laws I'v seen quoted hear are ONLY INT*ER*STATE DRIVING. 
and many of the quoted laws are STATE SPECIFIC (INT*RA*STATE) AND NOT NECESSARLY FROM YOUR STATE.

*WE SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAN TO GIVE OUT LEGAL ADVICE*
JMO


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

cretebaby;624367 said:


> now try to fit your plow schedule into all that jibrish
> 
> i am not that by the book but this could be a problem in the dreaded lawsuit


yeah, that book is like 400 pages long of crap like that. Which is why if you ask 3 different DOT guys, you'll get 2.5 different answers.

BUT, the driving rules aren't really that hard.

After you have driven 11 hours, you can't drive anymore until you take 10 hours off.

After you have worked (combo of work and driving) 14 hours, you can't drive anymore (although you can work) until you have taken 10 hours off.

And, if you keep a logbook, you can ignore all that crap above. (which are rules on not keeping a logbook)


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Trucks are 18,000 lbs before you need a Cl-B (im pretty sure thats federal too and not just state to state)

Trailers are 10,000 lbs before you need a Cl-A Restricted, not just a Cl-B (Class Bs are for trucks only, no trailers) Cl-A Restricted allows you to drive a dump truck or pick-up with a trailer but not a Lowboy or a Semi, those are pure Cl-A.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

lonecowboy
Those time limits on driving are INTERSTATE many states have NO limits on time behind the wheel.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

theplowmeister;624432 said:


> Ford Plower this is *not *specifically aimed at you. BUT at PLowsite MEMBERS (O BOY hear comes the mail)
> Ask us about what plow we like or how to fix that problem or how do we deal with this or that. But legal advice!!!!!!!! DONT come onto plowsite and ask a bunch of idiots (we are that, just look at the answers you got) about the LAWS in *your state *go get official answers from official people. What are you going to do when you get stopped say*"But officer on plow site I was told I'm legal"*
> 
> Many of the laws I'v seen quoted hear are ONLY INT*ER*STATE DRIVING.
> ...


So you're saying what was posted directly from the FMCSA's website is inaccurate?

Do you really believe that each and every officer knows how the law has been interpreted and just might be interpreting it in his own fashion?



redman6565;624456 said:


> Trucks are 18,000 lbs before you need a Cl-B (im pretty sure thats federal too and not just state to state)
> 
> Trailers are 10,000 lbs before you need a Cl-A Restricted, not just a Cl-B (Class Bs are for trucks only, no trailers) Cl-A Restricted allows you to drive a dump truck or pick-up with a trailer but not a Lowboy or a Semi, those are pure Cl-A.


Did you read any of the posts before you posted the inaccurate crap above? You are wrong in so many ways.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

how is that inaccurate? i had the disclaimer that i didnt know for sure whether thats just my state or if it was federal law, but those are accurate for NY and under my USDOT regulations.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mark Oomkes;624032 said:


> So what happens when I am perfectly legal running my combo under 26K and but my trailer is over 10K which is not required in my state and I travel through NY?
> 
> Think you're wrong and I know you're wrong on the 33K part. 26,001 is the magic number for all trucks, 10,001 for trailers. If you think you're right, find that on the web and post it.
> 
> ...





redman6565;624590 said:


> how is that inaccurate? i had the disclaimer that i didnt know for sure whether thats just my state or if it was federal law, but those are accurate for NY and under my USDOT regulations.


Read the post above yours. I copied info from New York state DMV and none of those thinks you posted are in those regs. There is no CDL requirement for any vehicle at 18,000 GVW in the country. They all start at 26,000.

That is how it is inaccurate. If you have links to other info, post them. I will admit it if I am wrong.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

i dont have a web page however i just registered my 6-wheel dump body, GWR 22,500 right? i used to think you didnt need a Cl-B, but like I said i just went and registered the truck and they made my add it to my highway use tax and it now requires a TMT Clearence Permit. I dont know how much you know about TMTs unless you have dump trucks, but TMT Permits require the driver to have atleast a Cl-B. 

so idk. maybe i am wrong, but im just going off of what i was told by the Albion DMV not two weeks ago. i thought she was wrong for sure but she insists that that is how it is now.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

i guess the point being she said anything over 18,000 GWR.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

The trailer portion i positive about. again, if im wrong about the pick-ups, im wrong ill admit, im just going by what im told.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

redman6565;624599 said:


> i guess the point being she said anything over 18,000 GWR.


Sorry, I'd do more investigating. The 'employees' at the DMV in MI can not even tell you which tests you need to take for which vehicles. You have to know when you go in and request the correct ones.

Maybe you ought to print out the stuff I linked to and ask her to explain it?

I have no idea what a TMT permit is.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

i will definately have to. TMT is basically a mileage tax on non-thru way roads which sucks for me cause we own 2 10-wheelers, 4 6-wheelers, my 8-ton salt truck, my 5,000 gallon water truck, etc. that i have to pay mileage tax on, so if i can bump one of them off, that would make my day haha


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

MY point is there is SO much bad info given on this and *most* of the posts about laws that ANYBODY that fallows what is given hear is looking for a ticket or worse. Most of the posts are just WRONG. You get answers for NY laws when the question is from WI. What good is a NY law in WI?

We just fight over stuff that MOST of us have wrong.

no I'm not going to back and count how manny are wrong. All I know is every 2nd post is saying "you are wrong this is correct"

And mark is WRONG the federal laws are for INTERSTATE
each state can and does still regulate rules for INTRASTATE 
JMO


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

haha youre right, youre right, it's tough. but everyone's just trying to lend a hand. i mean if you post a thread asking a question, you have to be prepared for answers that arent in any way shape or form correct or close to being correct. at least people are trying to help, appreciate that. and if you dont like wrong answers then dont ask questions, its as simple as that. you dont have to like or agree with whats posted here. and lastly, if you are asking questions and you are going to go with someone's posted answer, you probably should double check the information anyways and if you dont youre just dumb. and besides fighting and arguing over being wrong makes things interesting haha


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## tls22 (Sep 30, 2007)

This thread is like beating a dead horse 4 pages worth


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

haha yet it is still entertaining


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

sell the pickup. buy a small econonomical car. Put a snow sport on it.
problems solved..
Could even get a fisher homesteader and put it on a awd minivan.


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

As long as were on the subject of rules and regulations, do I need a over width permit for the 8'6" plow that now has wings on it?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

blowerman;624820 said:


> as long as were on the subject of rules and regulations, do i need a over width permit for the 8'6" plow that now has wings on it?


yes................


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## snowandgo (Oct 26, 2008)

Not if it is under 8'6" angled and it is angled when you go down the road.

*In IL*, if the trailler is over 10,000, you need a class A no matter what. I know from experience. But my ticket was dropped in court because I got the class A before going to court. Cop never asked me for a DOT #. Been stopped a few times in the past ten years and haven't been asked for DOT #, Med card, etc. (Doesn't mean I'm not supposed to have them.)

This question is always worse than a brand war. If you are an owner-operator, the cops may go easy on you, but if you have an employee driving, you better have him legal.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

snowandgo;625153 said:


> Not if it is under 8'6" angled and it is angled when you go down the road.
> 
> *In IL*, if the trailler is over 10,000, you need a class A no matter what. I know from experience. But my ticket was dropped in court because I got the class A before going to court. Cop never asked me for a DOT #. Been stopped a few times in the past ten years and haven't been asked for DOT #, Med card, etc. (Doesn't mean I'm not supposed to have them.)
> 
> This question is always worse than a brand war. If you are an owner-operator, the cops may go easy on you, but if you have an employee driving, you better have him legal.


it would depend on the wing size

i assumed they would be like prowings which would not be under 102" at full angle plus the DOT cops here will still measure the length whether it is angled or not or so ive heard

the only way you would need a class A for a 10k trailer would be if you were pulling it with a 26k+ truck


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## WetChicken (Dec 23, 2006)

LoneCowboy;624363 said:


> You're right, I'm wrong


So, then why are you arguing??? I apologize for saying you were wrong.
Ok, we are both right. Leave it to the feds to make the same rule twice. Well, sorta, lol. 100 miles for a CDL vehicle, and 150 miles for a non-CDL vehicle.


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## WetChicken (Dec 23, 2006)

So, if I leave Albany in an el camino listening to Metallica and the plate light is out, do I still need to brush my teeth?


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## sdplowing (Oct 7, 2006)

Only on the third thursday of every other month not in a leap year. If it's a leap year, you're screwed.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

WetChicken;625430 said:


> So, if I leave Albany in an el camino listening to Metallica and the plate light is out, do I still need to brush my teeth?


Are you crossing state lines?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;625525 said:


> Are you crossing state lines?


For some reason I find this incredibly amusing.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

If I had the money to blow,just to screw with my buddies from the DOT,I'd build a super custom RV coach that would be completely gutted{maybe I might keep the fridge},have a tricked out,concealed hydraulic rear fold up ramp to transport my excavating toys.That would just be so sweet--can only dream.I'd wave to the boys in orange.
There will be something coming soon though for some kind of licensing endorsement to drive a big RV--my buddy has one,he goes to all these rallys,says DOT is formulating something.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

tuney443;625586 said:


> If I
> There will be something coming soon though for some kind of licensing endorsement to drive a big RV--my buddy has one,he goes to all these rallys,says DOT is formulating something.


I sure hope so, I'ts freaking ridiculous what's going on with RV's that are totally excluded from registration, CDL's, safety inspections, drug tests, etc, etc, etc

You can't tell me that 50% or more of the RV's (and/or trailers) on the road aren't completely overloaded. (35' 5th wheels behind a CC 3/4 ton truck) and there's no way half those guys could pass a driving test.

Make the same for everyone.
"it's for safety afterall" (yeah, right, it's about the money)


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## 02powerstroke (Nov 7, 2006)

LoneCowboy;625644 said:


> I sure hope so, I'ts freaking ridiculous what's going on with RV's that are totally excluded from registration, CDL's, safety inspections, drug tests, etc, etc, etc
> 
> You can't tell me that 50% or more of the RV's (and/or trailers) on the road aren't completely overloaded. (35' 5th wheels behind a CC 3/4 ton truck) and there's no way half those guys could pass a driving test.
> 
> ...


My family owns a campground where I work all summer as the maintence foreman and you wouldent beleve the things I see coming in here it down right scares me. Then theres the rich @ss holes that buy the 47ft tandem axle diesel pusher buses and have only driven there BMW and come here and smash into things because alot of are sites are not pull threws and they have no clue how to back up. its


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## Grampa Plow (Sep 1, 2008)

I agree...I have a 38 foot camper and I simply leave it parked....lots less hassle!


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

*FordPlower*, If you have a GVW of 26001 you need it. To do what you need, you just need Commercial plates. In fact any state is that way. It won't even effect your insurance. It is a Fed. Law. NOT State. No you don't need CDL Licence., and you don't need to even have a registered company to get the plates. If a cop wanted to be a *****, he can give you a ticket for having a sled in the bed of your 3/4 ton p/u with personal plates. That's why I went to get the Commercial plates. Which by the way are only $6 bucks more here, That does range state to state. Oh, did I mention I have a CDL A with every endorsement they offer. and have gone through 6 DOT audits as a Operations Manager of a trucking company. When in doubt go to you local Registration counter.


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## blmland (Oct 17, 2008)

These laws are not unique to each state, they are Federal. Truck 10,001 lbs. gvw or more gets a DOT#, health card for the driver. DOT # doesn't need to be displayed unless you are interstate. The truck does require safety equipment and vehicle identification. 26,001 lbs. or more needs a Class B CDL with entitles you to drive with a trailer 10,000 lbs. or less. Truck and trailer over 26001 lbs. and trailer is over 10,001 lbs. you need a Class A cdl. Tanker over 1000 gallons needs a tanker endorsement for any class license. Also, if you don't have a For-Hire Operating Authority, you can't haul things for hire you wouldn't normally haul in your daily business. It's the law! If you want to get technical, most one ton dually pickups have a manufacturer combined weight rating of less than 20,000 lbs! That is the weight of the truck, passengers, etc. and the weight of the trailer. Do the math gentlemen, truck weighs 10,000 lbs. with snow plow and fuel tank, trailer weighs 7000 lbs. Where do I put the skid steer? Look at your factory hitches. Most are rated for less than 1000 lb. tongue weight and 10,000 trailer weight. If the DOT enforced Manufacturers weight ratings, we would all have to buy medium duty trucks to pull our skid steers.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

blmland;626493 said:


> These laws are not unique to each state, they are Federal. Truck 10,001 lbs. gvw or more gets a DOT#, health card for the driver. DOT # doesn't need to be displayed unless you are interstate. The truck does require safety equipment and vehicle identification. 26,001 lbs. or more needs a Class B CDL with entitles you to drive with a trailer 10,000 lbs. or less. Truck and trailer over 26001 lbs. and trailer is over 10,001 lbs. you need a Class A cdl. Tanker over 1000 gallons needs a tanker endorsement for any class license. Also, if you don't have a For-Hire Operating Authority, you can't haul things for hire you wouldn't normally haul in your daily business. It's the law! If you want to get technical, most one ton dually pickups have a manufacturer combined weight rating of less than 20,000 lbs! That is the weight of the truck, passengers, etc. and the weight of the trailer. Do the math gentlemen, truck weighs 10,000 lbs. with snow plow and fuel tank, trailer weighs 7000 lbs. Where do I put the skid steer? Look at your factory hitches. Most are rated for less than 1000 lb. tongue weight and 10,000 trailer weight. If the DOT enforced Manufacturers weight ratings, we would all have to buy medium duty trucks to pull our skid steers.


Not sure why I'm doing this, but while I agree with most of your post, some of it is factually incorrect.

In MI, we do have to display USDOT on any truck over 10,001. This is one reg that can be enforced by the state. Check the link, it has which states it has to be displayed in. INTRASTATE as well as interstate.


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## blmland (Oct 17, 2008)

Your right Mark, that is a law that is unique to MN. I wish the vehicle identification law (Business name, place origin, etc.) was enforced more. Then I could find out who the insuranceless SOB's are that underbid all my jobs.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

The Federal Laws and State Laws for that matter are written in just a way that they are mis construed ALL the time. They Bank on the fact your going to mis read something or get a false sense of knowledge. It's not that anyone is an idiot or not reading it thoroughly, it's just the wording and doubt around every sentence you read. 

Granted they have to write them this way because there is no situation the same to any one person. However, the Man in blue, and I am not talking about the county Sheriff or even Mr. statie, but the man referred to as the "Bear"......He got his nick name for what he does. They can and will mis read the law as it was intended just to get you that ticket. God forgive you if you should argue with the guy roadside, cause then it's time for a full fledge inspection on your truck.....You can drive a brand new truck out of the dealers lot all lettered up and he can find something wrong with it. 

In Maine, if a DOT officer writes you up.....he has to be the one in court to prosecute you. Tell me that's not in justice. The judge's stance is this.."you didn't understand the law, no harm, no foul. Pay the lady at the window and we will tack it on your license. Better luck next time." 

Go to your Registration place, wether it is your DMV or your local Town Hall, ASK THEM what you need. Don't ask a cop though. You may need to go to Nasa and study thermal energy if we left it up to them. It's just not worth telling a cop on the side of the road "Yeah But.....Joe Shmoe told me..." It's just not worth it. I would rather spend an hour or two at DMV with no outcome then spend the day in court to walk out with fines and more infractions on my License


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

33,000lb


WetChicken;624277 said:


> This comes up because this is the maximum GVW allowed by law of a two axle vehicle, like a six wheeler. There are ways around that, but that's the short and skinny.


actually thats where FET breaks at you can get bigger trucks than 33 on 2 axles some muni truck are


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## John Mac (Feb 5, 2005)

Do you remember the first page of this thread when someone was bashing the guy who started this thread, what a dump question he implied. Gee, looks like maybe that guy is the dummy, how many pages is this thing. Looks like no can give the answer.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

I was just thinking the same thing John when going to the page selector. Controversial topic I would say. The gateways to politics!


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

I'ts not this site, it's the subject
It's a mess.
Over 26,000lbs, the rules are all pretty similar, but below that, the states are all different on USDOT numbers. Some states are different in their interpretation of the rules for trailers on CDL, etc.

Then, of course, the actual rules are a damn mess. One thing says A, the next thing says B and they contradict each other and it just depends on the mood of the DOT officer.

Even they will admit the rules are confusing and never ending. 

So, if you ask one guy you will get one answer, if you ask the next guy (in the same state), you'll get another answer. That's why everyone hates getting pulled into a DOT inspection, it's always different.

Personally i think the rules are designed to be difficult to understand, gives them more power. Because if they pull you in, they are finding something and getting paid for their time, even if your truck is brand new, or just came from an official DOT inspection with a new sticker.

Thus, as someone said earlier, the original poster now has some ideas on what to ask, some sources on where to go, but really, in the end, they need to call THIER state's DOT office and get put in touch with the right people (probably take 3 or 4 transfers from my experience).


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