# Wheel loader price/hr



## kmj1207 (Dec 26, 2016)

I’m working on getting into commercial snow removal this season. I have talked with a few places and they are wanting hourly rates. I was wondering if there is a basis for pricing on a small loader. Looking at renting a CAT 918m and using an arctic 14’ sectional. Any help would be appreciated.


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## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

How much do you need to make an hr to
Make this a profitable endeavor?

In other words how much does it cost you to
Run this loader an hr with profit?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Tough call. Seems pricing is regional.Hate hourly,no incentive to be cleverly productive. My buddy gets 160 an hour for his jd 544 .


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

$160.00 would be okay here but that don't mean it will work for you. As said above different regions different pricing. I know guys that will go for $125.00 and are happy.

If you don't know how to figure your bottom line, cost of doing business have someone show you. Accountant etc. Once you know that you can put a profit your happy with.

What about your commercial insurance on your trucks? General liability? possibly Workmans Comp? The capitol for salt and storage? Fuel? back up? Employee's?

You got a lot of leg work before you can determine how to be profitable. Good Luck.


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## kmj1207 (Dec 26, 2016)

With those numbers I think I’m good with where I went in. I estimate high with operation costs. Saying roughly $50/hr for fuel, looking at possibly hiring an operator due to me still being in school, although I would like to run it myself more often than not. Paying say $25/hr. So I’m up to $75/hr cost. So $100 an hour to run, rental prices are a per month so I haven’t added that in because whether it snows or not I’m paying same rental price. Lot I bid on was just over an acre. Not sure on time but I would estimate at most 1.5 hours to completely clear. I went in $285/hr. I know the manager and have done work for him in the past, wants the lot done good and got accepted for that bid. So from the sounds of it that’s a very good price?


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## CCSnow (Jan 25, 2016)

Seems way overkill. 14 foot sectional and a wheel loader on an acre lot would take almost no time. I use a Cat 262D and a 10 foot box and do 6 acres in under 2 hrs at 1.5-2 inches and 3 hrs at 3-4 inches.


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## kmj1207 (Dec 26, 2016)

CCSnow said:


> Seems way overkill. 14 foot sectional and a wheel loader on an acre lot would take almost no time. I use a Cat 262D and a 10 foot box and do 6 acres in under 2 hrs at 1.5-2 inches and 3 hrs at 3-4 inches.


 If that's the only lot I get accepted on I don't plan on renting a wheel loader then. I'd stick with a skid. The snow piling location is very minimal at the job and that's where a loader would come in handy. I'm also bidding a 12 acre lot as well


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I would look for something more fuel efficient than something sucking $50/hr.
Especially if that hour is for 1 acre...


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## mnlawns (Sep 19, 2018)

Mr.Markus said:


> I would look for something more fuel efficient than something sucking $50/hr.
> Especially if that hour is for 1 acre...


highly doubt a cat 918 uses 10+ gallons of diesel per hour lol


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

mnlawns said:


> highly doubt a cat 918 uses 10+ gallons of diesel per hour lol


At 1.5 hours to the acre it must be cause the brake is on...


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## mnlawns (Sep 19, 2018)

Mr.Markus said:


> At 1.5 hours to the acre it must be cause the brake is on...


Shovel might be faster jk lol


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## mnlawns (Sep 19, 2018)

On a side note, congratulations on your first parking lot. Did you establish a minimum charge of 1hr? So you will get paid the $285 even if it takes 35mins?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Here's a nice source https://www.hawthornecat.com/sites/..._Owning_Operating_Costs_CPH_v1.1_03.13.14.pdf


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Why is the location of snow piles limited? No green line to push off? Or are these spots requested by client? Sometime these Managers would not know where to put snow if there life depended on it.

Then again they are asking for hourly on 1 acre that should only take a seasoned snow and ice contractor 20 min. unless there is a maze in there.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

kmj1207 said:


> With those numbers I think I'm good with where I went in. I estimate high with operation costs. Saying roughly $50/hr for fuel, looking at possibly hiring an operator due to me still being in school, although I would like to run it myself more often than not. Paying say $25/hr. So I'm up to $75/hr cost. So $100 an hour to run, rental prices are a per month so I haven't added that in because whether it snows or not I'm paying same rental price. Lot I bid on was just over an acre. Not sure on time but I would estimate at most 1.5 hours to completely clear. I went in $285/hr. I know the manager and have done work for him in the past, wants the lot done good and got accepted for that bid. So from the sounds of it that's a very good price?


Not sure how you got from $175 to $285 an hour...  but I like it.

Honestly not sure how you got to $175 an hour to run... not sure if you do either?

You need to have the cost of the rental, fuel, G/L insurance, workers comp insurance, rental machine insurance, cost of pusher or pusher rental, labor, daily maintenance, etc.

I think that your fuel costs are going to be at the lower end of all of those costs on an acre lot, but you have it estimated as one of the highest items...


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I can’t see how you could make any money. If you are renting both the loader and box. My quick math says you would need to run it 75 hours just to break even let alone make any money. 

You are planning on also hiring an operator too? I think you need to do some more research and math.


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## kmj1207 (Dec 26, 2016)

fireside said:


> I can't see how you could make any money. If you are renting both the loader and box. My quick math says you would need to run it 75 hours just to break even let alone make any money.
> 
> You are planning on also hiring an operator too? I think you need to do some more research and math.


 With cost or rental and box I need about 40 hours to break even. I also have 30 residential drives and looking at adding more. I have been researching a lot and understand I need a lot more before I make final decisions but that's why I posted. Hoping some of you with more experience would be more willing to help rather than criticize as I don't have experience with this type of bidding. I have gotten requests to make proposals for other businesses as well, so any further input would be appreciated.


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## kmj1207 (Dec 26, 2016)

FredG said:


> Why is the location of snow piles limited? No green line to push off? Or are these spots requested by client? Sometime these Managers would not know where to put snow if there life depended on it.
> 
> Then again they are asking for hourly on 1 acre that should only take a seasoned snow and ice contractor 20 min. unless there is a maze in there.


Snow piling location is limited because the lot has no grass areas around it. All snow is pushed to one corner of the lot. Which may require snow be relocated at some times. I did offer a season contract but they wanted an hourly rate.


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## mnlawns (Sep 19, 2018)

kmj1207 said:


> With cost or rental and box I need about 40 hours to break even. I also have 30 residential drives and looking at adding more. I have been researching a lot and understand I need a lot more before I make final decisions but that's why I posted. Hoping some of you with more experience would be more willing to help rather than criticize as I don't have experience with this type of bidding. I have gotten requests to make proposals for other businesses as well, so any further input would be appreciated.


If you're doing drives, a skid/truck or maybe even a tractor would be better suited... have a kage on the front with a inverted on the back, do your parking lots, take the kage off and do drives.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

kmj1207 said:


> With cost or rental and box I need about 40 hours to break even. I also have 30 residential drives and looking at adding more. I have been researching a lot and understand I need a lot more before I make final decisions but that's why I posted. Hoping some of you with more experience would be more willing to help rather than criticize as I don't have experience with this type of bidding. I have gotten requests to make proposals for other businesses as well, so any further input would be appreciated.


 A few guys are joking around but don't think anybody is criticizing you. Typically a acre to plow is under $200.00 here depending on what might be in your way. Somebody with a pull behind and a vee with wings will slam a acre.

If you got to stack snow or move just rent a skid for a 1/2 day and charge accordingly.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

kmj1207 said:


> Hoping some of you with more experience would be more willing to help rather than criticize


Just because they don't agree with you or think your pricing is messed up doesn't mean they are criticizing.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

kmj1207 said:


> With cost or rental and box I need about 40 hours to break even. I also have 30 residential drives and looking at adding more. I have been researching a lot and understand I need a lot more before I make final decisions but that's why I posted. Hoping some of you with more experience would be more willing to help rather than criticize as I don't have experience with this type of bidding. I have gotten requests to make proposals for other businesses as well, so any further input would be appreciated.


 I would go back and read everyone's responses again. Everyone is helping you with the real world business costs! Snow Varys so much by region.

I have have a bit of snow time under my belt. I run one 2.5 loader , two compactor loaders, skidsteer and some trucks. So I understand the true costs of equipment. By no means would I rent a 918 loader and box to plow 1 acre. All my equipment has a 4 hour min. Unless it is being used to plow say under normal operations.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Just because they don't agree with you or think your pricing is messed up doesn't mean they are criticizing.


I agree, everyones pricing/region is different. It is important to have the right information to create a profitable model.
You through a price together with incorrect data and still wanted everyones opinion. 
There really is only 2 opinions that count. Yours and your customers.. my opinion was your calculations to arrive at that number were wrong. I cant provide you with the correct ones for your market.
Fwiw my fuel calc is about $12hr. If i had employees...what i pay them / hr is only part of the calc. Workers comp, bonuses, etc.
To come up with a number without including the rental is ludacris. There was a great link provided. I hope you took the bait.


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## kmj1207 (Dec 26, 2016)

fireside said:


> I would go back and read everyone's responses again. Everyone is helping you with the real world business costs! Snow Varys so much by region.
> 
> I have have a bit of snow time under my belt. I run one 2.5 loader , two compactor loaders, skidsteer and some trucks. So I understand the true costs of equipment. By no means would I rent a 918 loader and box to plow 1 acre. All my equipment has a 4 hour min. Unless it is being used to plow say under normal operations.


I do understand. I didn't mean criticizing as in a negative way I guess the more I look into the more lost I keep getting. I was just wondering if there is like a formula but from what everyone has said every where is so different in pricing. This is a whole new game going into commercials and I have greatly appreciated the input.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

kmj1207 said:


> I do understand. I didn't mean criticizing as in a negative way I guess the more I look into the more lost I keep getting. I was just wondering if there is like a formula but from what everyone has said every where is so different in pricing. This is a whole new game going into commercials and I have greatly appreciated the input.


 You know your bottom line according to you, Figure it for 1 hour at your $285.00 or whatever you figured. I think that's a little high for a acre, this means nothing for all I know your market could stand more.

Just make sure you cover your butt and get your feet wet. Claim you got 30 driveways, invest in a pull behind and it will help you with resi's or commercial. Make sure your bid has hourly for removal and stacking and then rent the machine of choice.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I think my question to you why a loader??? Do you have a truck or any equipment to currently plow with? Are you currently plowing snow?

I think a great starting place for you is insurance costs 

Comm auto on your truck and the loader you rent. You will need it on the loader just to drive in the road.


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## kmj1207 (Dec 26, 2016)

Thank you all. After reviewing everything you have helped me with I do not plan on renting a loader and box. Using my truck with a straight blade is what I'm going to stick with. I also have the chance to purchase a 773 bobcat and trailer for cheap so I'm going to jump on that and between the two the lot shouldn't be to much trouble.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

kmj1207 said:


> Thank you all. After reviewing everything you have helped me with I do not plan on renting a loader and box. Using my truck with a straight blade is what I'm going to stick with. I also have the chance to purchase a 773 bobcat and trailer for cheap so I'm going to jump on that and between the two the lot shouldn't be to much trouble.


 It's okay to invest in a skid if it don't hurt you. You will find a home for it eventually, Our point was you don't need it for a acre. I made a mistake when I started out, should of bought a pull behind before the loaders. A compact loader and the pull behind I could of got by.

I got a serious issue tho, I like yard art. :laugh: I finally sold my airport blower that I had for over 10 years and used maybe 8 times. :hammerhead:


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## kmj1207 (Dec 26, 2016)

FredG said:


> It's okay to invest in a skid if it don't hurt you. You will find a home for it eventually, Our point was you don't need it for a acre. I made a mistake when I started out, should of bought a pull behind before the loaders. A compact loader and the pull behind I could of got by.
> 
> I got a serious issue tho, I like yard art. :laugh: I finally sold my airport blower that I had for over 10 years and used maybe 8 times. :hammerhead:


Yeah and seeing how much some of you plow, that acre shouldn't be a problem for a skid and truck. It really just seems so much bigger than my residential lots but I think it's a good size to step into commercial.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I will go another direction. You said you have straight blade. If you can afford to get rid of that old school and by something with wings or an expandable plow. I run all blizzard plows you want to save time and move snow that’s the game. Ps I said nothing about v plows I hate them unless you plow all driveways.


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

Well now you have to rebid? Or are you getting $285 for the skid and truck?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I think you need to speak with a commercial insurance agent to find out all your insurance costs personally before you go any further.

You will be shocked how much the correct insurance actually costs you to be in business and do work for corporations...


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

Philbilly2 said:


> I think you need to speak with a commercial insurance agent to find out all your insurance costs personally before you go any further.
> 
> You will be shocked how much the correct insurance actually costs you to be in business and do work for corporations...


That's a fact. I believe our insurances(s) cost nearly 3-4x our shop rent. I was just telling a guy on LawnSite who claimed tree work was included in his general contractor insurance.

And I'm the weirdo who asks for audits and shops policies every 1-2 years!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Tree work is included? Lmao


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I just got my GL/workers comp audit paperwork work in the mail last night...

All I can say is ouch.  

More sales = More you got to give those leaches.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Tree work is included? Lmao


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

cjames808 said:


> That's a fact. I believe our insurances(s) cost nearly 3-4x our shop rent. I was just telling a guy on LawnSite who claimed tree work was included in his general contractor insurance.
> 
> And I'm the weirdo who asks for audits and shops policies every 1-2 years!


Holy schnikeys what a blooming idiot. Lowering the bar of professionalism 2 rungs at a time.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Holy schnikeys what a blooming idiot. Lowering the bar of professionalism 2 rungs at a time.


Have you met a lawncare operator lately...


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

ok, let's try to stick to the topic please

thank you


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


>


Hopefully they never ask about my pruning and why it consists of cutting trunks and grinding stumps...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Hopefully they never ask about my pruning and why it consists of cutting trunks and grinding stumps...


With a loader?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> With a loader?


Yes harnessed off to the clevis in the back of the bucket at $145/hr... No BOC though...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Yes harnessed off to the clevis in the back of the bucket at $145/hr... No BOC though...


 Should of sent a picture to your insurance man, show him how skilled you are.


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