# Tricky situation with two highly difficult driveways



## JohnnyRockies (Oct 16, 2020)

So, most of my plow accounts are commercial parking lots. But there are two that are residential, and they happen to be my neighbors. 

The two driveways are each about a quarter mile long, dirt and very steep and technical. One year I even had to chain up and that was a pain. I've been doing these driveways for 3 years now. Prior to that, there has been a whole mess of plow guys that came, saw, and gtfo due to the difficulty. These driveways are hard on my truck and plow and they are both high risk for getting stuck. 

I charge $75 per push, 4 inch trigger. One of those customers is a on a "we'll call you when we want you to plow" basis, which I don't like. 

Here's my question: Should I up my rates this season to $100 per push and risk pissing my neighbors off? Thanks for the advice.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Or you could drop them both and say you don’t work for neighbors any more. 
I guess if a 25$ Increase is justifiable would depend on
-are you making money?
-does that extra cost cover your pita factor
-can these two neighbors afford the increase.
-25% price increase is a lot.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

Can you talk them into a lower trigger? 2, or 3"?
Youd knock them out quicker. 
Also, maybe add for more than say 6".


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## JohnnyRockies (Oct 16, 2020)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Or you could drop them both and say you don't work for neighbors any more.
> I guess if a 25$ Increase is justifiable would depend on
> -are you making money?
> -does that extra cost cover your pita factor
> ...


I guess my question is, do you think it's a reasonable rate? Would you charge that?


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

For a 1/4 mile uphill in dirt/gravel, no I'd charge a lot more.

*But.*

You're in a different part of the country, your expenses are different, and your weather is different, 
no one is going to be able to tell you what to charge, anyone that tells you is either stoopid or lying, you'll have to figure that out in your own.

as I said originally, working for neighbors sucks, we don't plow neighbors


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## JohnnyRockies (Oct 16, 2020)

BossPlow2010 said:


> For a 1/4 mile uphill in dirt/gravel, no I'd charge a lot more.
> 
> *But.*
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response. So, dropping them as customers is pretty much out of the question. Not only would I be leaving them high and dry, but, we're very friendly neighbors and I don't mind plowing for them. Also, they can afford to pay more, but I don't want to come off as greedy.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Neighbours are last, as they know my drive is the last... I have drives that are quite challenging 3/4 mile, usually dink around at a garage and turn around and suddenly you are done in about 12 min... $100 is easy money and competitive. No on call though, set a trigger and stick to it.


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## JohnnyRockies (Oct 16, 2020)

Mr.Markus said:


> No on call though, set a trigger and stick to it.


Is this your policy no matter what? If so, why?


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

It drives me nuts, I'm either past it on my route and have to backtrack, or home sleeping with a freshly washed truck.
Set a schedule, storms are hard enough to keep straight and profitable.


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## sota (Jan 31, 2011)

you're reminding me, I need to get my landscaper to talk to these 2 PITA driveways I do, and tell them they need to stop parking their outside vehicles in the way all the time. One is a narrow steep entrance, immediate 90 degree right turn, and severely off camber. So severe a couple times I nearly fell off the driveway, which would have rolled my Jeep. It's bad enough that i'm 50/50 on telling him I won't plow it any more, and we'll have to shovel it. Might take less time.

The other is narrow, unedged, wooded on both sides, curvy, and steep as hell. It's tried to kill me multiple times. Studded snow tires last year made it far less sketchy, but it's still a PITA especially at the top where the house is, and their parking area is too small for 3 cars, nevermind the 5 they like to park there.


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## JohnnyRockies (Oct 16, 2020)

Mr.Markus said:


> It drives me nuts, I'm either past it on my route and have to backtrack, or home sleeping with a freshly washed truck.
> Set a schedule, storms are hard enough to keep straight and profitable.


This sounds reasonable to me. I'll just tell them that I won't do on-call anymore because it makes my regular route more difficult, in addition to the fact that their driveway is by far the hardest driveway I've ever seen.

Do you guys usually do a 3" trigger?


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## JohnnyRockies (Oct 16, 2020)

sota said:


> you're reminding me, I need to get my landscaper to talk to these 2 PITA driveways I do, and tell them they need to stop parking their outside vehicles in the way all the time. One is a narrow steep entrance, immediate 90 degree right turn, and severely off camber. So severe a couple times I nearly fell off the driveway, which would have rolled my Jeep. It's bad enough that i'm 50/50 on telling him I won't plow it any more, and we'll have to shovel it. Might take less time.
> 
> The other is narrow, unedged, wooded on both sides, curvy, and steep as hell. It's tried to kill me multiple times. Studded snow tires last year made it far less sketchy, but it's still a PITA especially at the top where the house is, and their parking area is too small for 3 cars, nevermind the 5 they like to park there.


Yeah, so far I've been lucky that my customers don't park in the way of my plow. Though one customer parks his pop-up camper in the worst possible spot, but he doesn't really have any other placed to put it, so I just work around it. I've come really close to hitting it several times.

Another question: do you have your customers sign a damage wavier, in case you damage any of their property?


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

JohnnyRockies said:


> Is this your policy no matter what? If so, why?


My opinion, you should choose when you go out and plow, not the customer. Those drives, do them every few inches, easier on your truck. And I'd raise the price.


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## sota (Jan 31, 2011)

JohnnyRockies said:


> Yeah, so far I've been lucky that my customers don't park in the way of my plow. Though one customer parks his pop-up camper in the worst possible spot, but he doesn't really have any other placed to put it, so I just work around it. I've come really close to hitting it several times.
> 
> Another question: do you have your customers sign a damage wavier, in case you damage any of their property?


Since I work for someone else, that's all his problem. 
I've called him a couple times and told him I'm refusing to a do a driveway, because someone parked stupidly on it. I won't risk hitting something or damaging my equipment. We'll sometimes do a courtesy knock and see if they'll want to move out of the way, but if they say no or don't answer, fugettaboutit. It's amazing sometimes how little common sense some people have, and can't seem to look at their property and go "where's the best place I can put my stuff and make it as easy as possible for me or anyone else to clear as much as possible of snow?" I know... common sense ain't so common.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

JohnnyRockies said:


> This sounds reasonable to me. I'll just tell them that I won't do on-call anymore because it makes my regular route more difficult, in addition to the fact that their driveway is by far the hardest driveway I've ever seen.
> 
> Do you guys usually do a 3" trigger?


Almost all of mine are 1" trigger. I have a couple 2" and a couple 3". I haven't signed up a new client with a trigger more than 1" in nearly a decade.


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## JohnnyRockies (Oct 16, 2020)

EWSplow said:


> Almost all of mine are 1" trigger. I have a couple 2" and a couple 3". I haven't signed up a new client with a trigger more than 1" in nearly a decade.


I think on paved drives or a paved lot, it makes sense to set the trigger low, 1 or 2 inches just because is can get compacted and turn to ice quicker. But for dirt/gravel drives, doesn't 3" seem more reasonable?


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## sota (Jan 31, 2011)

you tear the hell out of a dirt/gravel drive even more with the added down pressure created by the built up snow on the blade. even my rounded edge can't stop that, and snow shoes only help so much. plus you're already traction compromised, so that added weight makes it even more likely to spin tires and tear stuff up even more.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

what about a seasonal price you are happy with?


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

JohnnyRockies said:


> So, most of my plow accounts are commercial parking lots. But there are two that are residential, and they happen to be my neighbors.
> 
> The two driveways are each about a quarter mile long, dirt and very steep and technical. One year I even had to chain up and that was a pain. I've been doing these driveways for 3 years now. Prior to that, there has been a whole mess of plow guys that came, saw, and gtfo due to the difficulty. These driveways are hard on my truck and plow and they are both high risk for getting stuck.
> 
> ...


I struggle with the same question you raise Johnny. The real question is not I'm I going to make my neighbor mad. That is the question you're worried about. The real question is how much money do you have into your plow rig and how much money do you have waiting on the rest of your accounts. If you get stuck off the edge of one of those driveways or if you damage one of your plow rigs how much does that cost you? My advice is to look at these accounts with a grain of salt. Just because it's an opportunity does not mean it's the right opportunity. The jobs you get are just as important as the jobs you don't. Be smart.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JohnnyRockies said:


> I think on paved drives or a paved lot, it makes sense to set the trigger low, 1 or 2 inches just because is can get compacted and turn to ice quicker. But for dirt/gravel drives, doesn't 3" seem more reasonable?


Sound like in your original post these driveways are in the mtns or foothills. If so are they on the sunny side or shaded side, is ice build up an issue from thaw/freeze cycles?
Can I ask your general location?
The "On Call" service has to go for you're route planning. I had a customer do that with me when there was too much snow for his lawn tractor to handle and then they would complain why it took so long to get to their driveway. Half way through the season I told them there's no way I could service them by being "On Call" and they needed to commit to being serviced when trigger was hit or find someone else. 
The dirt/gravel driveways I had were 4" triggers which is real common. Heck I don't plow my dirt/gravel driveway unless there's 5-6".


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

I would up the rate but >>>>> ask them to get other bids just to verify that you are NOT GREEDY. Maybe someone will low ball them and get you out of this mess. I do not plow anymore but I feel your pain and your truck's pain. Good Luck / Rick


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