# USM and Walmart go separate way.



## nliput (Oct 22, 2010)

I just got off the phone with my USM acct. manager and the non complete is no longer in place because Walmart requested the ability to work with there existing contractor. They also said Walmart will be creating there own central snow removal management team and it will most likely continue the way it was but interal within Walmart.I hope the best for all those usm employees who lost there jobs this week.


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## EZSWEEP (Nov 18, 2010)

I dont feel sorry for them . what about all the employees,other contractors didnt hire because of them and how they have driven the prices down. I wish them the same as they have done for others.


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## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

This will be a limited thing- I know how Walmart operates everything... give it a couple of years and we'll be hearing stories of how bad Walmart's relations and contracts are with contractors.


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## rsweeper (Nov 25, 2010)

nliput;1276025 said:


> I just got off the phone with my USM acct. manager and the non complete is no longer in place because Walmart requested the ability to work with there existing contractor. They also said Walmart will be creating there own central snow removal management team and it will most likely continue the way it was but interal within Walmart.I hope the best for all those usm employees who lost there jobs this week.


You better get it in writing that the non compete clause is not in place anymore. USM will be looking to do what they can to get as much money as they can after losing that account. People should not have signed there stupid contract to begin with. Sure glad we didnt sign it. We dont have any worries at all about starting back with Walmart, We told USM to shove that contract to begin with.


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## EZSWEEP (Nov 18, 2010)

Good bye Usm and to the there lowballing prices. See you next year under the name Pms


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## Washburnex (Apr 7, 2011)

usm was one hell of a b**** to work for, ill be glad to work directly through walmart


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

EZSWEEP;1276313 said:


> Good bye Usm and to the there lowballing prices. See you next year under the name Pms


How did they lowball?


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

BossPlow2010;1276872 said:


> How did they lowball?


Lets see.....by bidding things so low that the only way for them to make a profit was to make the subcontractors sign a rediculous contract that allowed them to find any reason not to pay......


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## Cmbrsum (Oct 2, 2008)

Happy to see them go. Hope it catches on. Hope too see some recovery. Oh, Looky there its SNOWING.


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## EZSWEEP (Nov 18, 2010)

If you have to ask you need to look in the mirror and say am I dope.


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## Washburnex (Apr 7, 2011)

in my area the deff low balled, i fought and got a price closer to what i wanted, but usm told walmart in the summer they could get contractors to plow the walmarts for a said price, all the same price (in my area at least) and when they found out they couldn't get anyone to plow it for that price, then they came back at me with some counter offers, it was an ordeal but it was sad really, the money they were offering, sure ill plow it for that price, but your gonna sacrifice some service, one pickup and some sand, lol


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

Washburnex;1277038 said:


> in my area the deff low balled, i fought and got a price closer to what i wanted, but usm told walmart in the summer they could get contractors to plow the walmarts for a said price, all the same price (in my area at least) and when they found out they couldn't get anyone to plow it for that price, then they came back at me with some counter offers, it was an ordeal but it was sad really, the money they were offering, sure ill plow it for that price, but your gonna sacrifice some service, one pickup and some sand, lol


If you wont provide good service at a given price, why waste your time? This attitude brings the industry down. Do a job, do it well.


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

hoskm01;1277047 said:


> If you wont provide good service at a given price, why waste your time? This attitude brings the industry down. Do a job, do it well.


You get what you pay for Matt.... Pay well and you'll get a good job like I've said all along with our conversations.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Mick76;1277053 said:


> You get what you pay for Matt.... Pay well and you'll get a good job like I've said all along with our conversations.


Thats the Truth....It showed on the Many Wal-mart lots in this area...


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## Washburnex (Apr 7, 2011)

hoskm01;1277047 said:


> If you wont provide good service at a given price, why waste your time? This attitude brings the industry down. Do a job, do it well.


i wasn't saying thats what i did, if you read what you quoted me on i said " i fought and got a price closer to what i wanted" i wont do a job if i cant do it well, thats why we get calls for work, our quality, word of mouth, i spend very little in advertising, i was simply saying thats what will happen with low balling, sure you'll get someone to do it, but you wont get the service that comes with the higher prices

and i dont blame walmart for looking for a management company, they needed change, im deff not saying usm or any management company was the answer, but ive herd first hand of many walmart managers getting kick backs from the contracts if they were giving the contract, sure, give me the job for this ridiculous amount of money and ill give you 10,000 for example, like i said im not saying usm was the answer, but i believe something had to be done


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

Matson Snow;1277054 said:


> Thats the Truth....It showed on the Many Wal-mart lots in this area...





Mick76;1277053 said:


> You get what you pay for Matt.... Pay well and you'll get a good job like I've said all along with our conversations.


I whole-heartedly agree with both comments.

From the standpoint of my business, if the price doesn't work, I don't lower my standards just to add the revenue.

Every impression on the street needs to be a good one for your company.


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

It seems a majority of their employees are minorities. I wonder how much government money they're getting for that.


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

Washburnex;1277081 said:


> and i dont blame walmart for looking for a management company, they needed change, im deff not saying usm or any management company was the answer, but ive herd first hand of many walmart managers getting kick backs from the contracts if they were giving the contract, sure, give me the job for this ridiculous amount of money and ill give you 10,000 for example, like i said im not saying usm was the answer, but i believe something had to be done


It sucks but I see it happen ALL the time, Ive never done it. But have lost a good bit of work because it goes on, not just @ Walmart but Im sure with property managers as well, think about it, they take your numbers, put them onto a spread sheet, the clients rarely see the actual quote. Its called GREED, I dont know what retail store managers make, but I know property managers dont make a ton, & for the BS they put up with, late night meetings, etc. I know of one apartment complex where the snow contractor is a painting company, he does all the painting & snow work...his realitive is a director at the company that ownes the complex.


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Washburnex;1276867 said:


> usm was one hell of a b**** to work for, ill be glad to work directly through walmart


Wash,
USM contacted my company to plow the one your plowing..... I asked them to email me their contract..... I friggin laughed at it... on top of the price they wanted me to do it for.... hopefully you were able to change some wording in that contract and neg a better price..... too much liabliity... the price they wanted us to do it for barely covered salt and fuel if you truely went by the sow.... hopefully you were able to neg better then we were....
Thing is now all the contractors know about usm leaving and will be bidding on wally worlds so pricing will still be lower then what it should be.....


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Mick76;1277099 said:


> Wash,
> USM contacted my company to plow the one your plowing..... I asked them to email me their contract..... I friggin laughed at it... on top of the price they wanted me to do it for.... hopefully you were able to change some wording in that contract and neg a better price..... too much liabliity... the price they wanted us to do it for barely covered salt and fuel if you truely went by the sow.... hopefully you were able to neg better then we were....
> Thing is now all the contractors know about usm leaving and will be bidding on wally worlds so* pricing will still be lower then what it should be*.....


Hopefully Pricing will rise......But, im not holding my Breath...There will always be a contractor that can reinvent the wheel.....


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

buckwheat_la;1276893 said:


> Lets see.....by bidding things so low that the only way for them to make a profit was to make the subcontractors sign a rediculous contract that allowed them to find any reason not to pay......


You mean they forced them to sign a contract?
How did they manage to pull that off?


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Sometimes i wonder why Contractors Clamor for these Lots....Up here we have Meijers and K-mart along with Walmart.....All these lots go for Very low prices...and on most of these lots service is Lousy due to the fact the Contractor starts to figure out half way through the season that they are taking it in the rear......Example...A Meijers in my area went for $375 a Push.....The lot is the size of a Super Walmart.....


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

BossPlow2010;1277155 said:


> You mean they forced them to sign a contract?
> How did they manage to pull that off?


No, that would be extoration, this will quickly become a conversation about the definition of lowballer, all I am saying is that a buisness that makes its profits out of seeing how they can weazel out of paying their sub contractors instead of on the efficiency of their work, is a lowballer in my books.


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## Washburnex (Apr 7, 2011)

mick76 
09 was great, we were paid per storm, kinda hard to gear up for it though since we recived the bid on November 15th.
Last year however was seasonal, like you said, the price was ridiculous, and we said no, and evidently they went out and tried to find some other dumb company to do it for that price cause i didn't hear anything for two weeks, and then the phone rang and the negotiations started. i didn't get rich on it, but we made some money, all that counts


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## Washburnex (Apr 7, 2011)

and why are so many people clamoring about a non compete clause they signed, i have ready my contract very very VERY carefully and thoroughly and saw nothing of a no compete clause?


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## dayexco (Oct 30, 2003)

buckwheat_la;1277159 said:


> No, that would be extoration, this will quickly become a conversation about the definition of lowballer, all I am saying is that a buisness that makes its profits out of seeing how they can weazel out of paying their sub contractors instead of on the efficiency of their work, is a lowballer in my books.


i can give you 2 examples of members of THIS forum on how they weasel their subs...they hit me for $4500....and if i remember right, northernsweeper for $22k....even though i'm laying off in the corner licking my wounds over the deal...i'm sure his ass hurts far worse than mine.


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## dayexco (Oct 30, 2003)

Matson Snow;1277158 said:


> Sometimes i wonder why Contractors Clamor for these Lots.....


when i started with target, i worked "for" target, that is where my checks came from, on time, zero hassles, the local manager and i did what needed, when needed...target corporate decided to go to dentco...that wasn't "too" bad...then you know who...and that's when because of my stupidity for not having my atty read the contract...took an ass whipping.


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Washburnex;1277167 said:


> and why are so many people clamoring about a non compete clause they signed, i have ready my contract very very VERY carefully and thoroughly and saw nothing of a no compete clause?


10 B Non-Competition clause in the contract they emailed me...24 months


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

dayexco;1277190 said:


> i can give you 2 examples of members of THIS forum on how they weasel their subs...they hit me for $4500....and if i remember right, northernsweeper for $22k....even though i'm laying off in the corner licking my wounds over the deal...i'm sure his ass hurts far worse than mine.


There's always two sides to a story. Too bad no one is here to speak for the other side.


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## northernsweeper (Aug 26, 2004)

I'd be open to that public conversation, anytime they like.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

buckwheat_la;1276893 said:


> Lets see.....by bidding things so low that the only way for them to make a profit was to make the subcontractors sign a rediculous contract that allowed them to find any reason not to pay......


USM was not a lowballer.

The sub contractors willing to work for USM where the lowballers.


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## hoskm01 (Oct 17, 2008)

32vld;1277665 said:


> USM was not a lowballer.
> 
> The sub contractors willing to work for USM where the lowballers.


32 gets it.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

32vld;1277665 said:


> USM was not a lowballer.
> 
> The sub contractors willing to work for USM where the lowballers.


You know this for certain do you? Well if usm bid the job cheaper then all the other contractors that had been doing it, then provided poor service (weither through subcontractors or not) doesn't that make them a lowballer? Or maybe I just don't understand the term correctly, so please enlighten me.


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## csi.northcoast (Aug 7, 2010)

Last time i looked, no one forced anyone to work for wages they were unconfortable with, yes it is true that most of us were not going to plow a "big box " store for those rates but ....they found someone to , now those folk may not be enlightened as to the what their cost truly are or the what a "hold harmless clause " can do to an insurance ploicy. but they took it and did what they had to do, By certain accounts some "big box stroes" were not happy with that ...but unfortunatley, most accounting types do not care if the lot is pavement by the time they open ...they want to save money period ... and the slip and falls , well that will be up to the contractor to hold the big box harmless and defend them...

until they can't find some one to work the rate will be the same .... simple supply and demand


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## Washburnex (Apr 7, 2011)

this was in a usm email i received today


WALMART and USM decided to dissolve the contract for exterior facilities maintenance services as
Walmart will in the future control their exterior service management in-house. USM, Inc. waives the
non-compete provision contained in your Subcontractor Agreement (“Subcontractor Agreement”) in
regard to any future services you may decide to perform for Walmart. However, your non-compete
provision for other USM customers remains in effect.


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## rsweeper (Nov 25, 2010)

Better get that in writing!!!!!! I sure wouldnt trust them to just say it. If its not in writing you are leaving yourself wide open to a lawsuit, period. And USM didnt have any choice, Walmart fired them!! USM couldnt do anything about it, couldnt get contractors to work for them and most of them that they did get, didnt do good work. BYE BYE USM, dont let the door hit you in the a-s on your way out.


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## Washburnex (Apr 7, 2011)

im not worried i did not sign a no compete on any of my sites, this was on a letter of termination for a site that i did not accept the award on, so why i received the letter is beyond me (other then another f*** up by usm) but either way the letter is a legal document, so anyone who receives this is good to go


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## rsweeper (Nov 25, 2010)

Not really, It has to be sent to you, by them, stating you are not bound. They can always come back and say, that wasnt ment for you. And you will still be on the hook.


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## Washburnex (Apr 7, 2011)

it was sent to me, by them, stating my name, there name, and all that, the letter entailed alot more but i wasn't about to post the whole letter on here


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

What Walmart is doing is setting up their own in house Facilitys Manangement company....They are a Very schrewed Company...They figure why pay a USM or some other National to run their Facilitys when they can do it themselfs and Save Big....They have sat back and watched USM for 2 years now....They Figure why pay a Middle man...There is more to come on this one....They will still get those nice low Prices on Snow Services due to the fact....Plenty of Guys willing to work for less just to say....I plow the Walmart.....


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## flatlander42 (Oct 22, 2008)

May as well keep it in house.


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## csi.northcoast (Aug 7, 2010)

Matson is 100% correct.... they let usm do all the dirty work of getting everone to bid lower and lower and now they know the pricing structure the doo not need USM.... i just wonder what kind of hold harmless clause they have in their contract...good luck guys/gals


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## snowbrothers101 (Jul 27, 2009)

Early word from my local Walmart is that corporate is going to let 75% of the sites go local this next season and the rest will be under the arm of one of 3-4 mid-size national companies. I am hoping this means Big Daddy Walmart has learned that no one company can service them. If I cant have direct I will still feel better with a mid-size company versus the big behemoth that is USM.

Plus, I like to get paid (meaning I hope SMS is not one of the companies)!


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## shooterm (Feb 23, 2010)

This only made sense. In my town like many other there is service companies up and down the block that provide everything from one vendor. Its also becoming a fast trend that service companies our partnered up with construction outfits. If they go the complete lowballer route we'll still make money off them between snow events and they know it.


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## loaderking (Dec 14, 2010)

Just got a email survey from usm asking what they did wrong in loosing the walmart account approx 20 questions none of which related to paying the contractor on time or not at all. Usm we all know you monitor this web site so here is a clue- you didnt pay your contractors, you where greedy on both ends of the deal, and you took advantage of both the customer- walmart, as well as the contractor. You should be ashamed of your business ethics.


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## rsweeper (Nov 25, 2010)

Tell USM to figure it out themselves, and then when they cant they will die off for good.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

rsweeper;1278603 said:


> Tell USM to figure it out themselves, and then when they cant they will die off for good.


Tell them they need to pay, in advance of course, to do the survey


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

loaderking;1278602 said:


> Just got a email survey from usm asking what they did wrong in loosing the walmart account approx 20 questions none of which related to paying the contractor on time or not at all. Usm we all know you monitor this web site so here is a clue- you didnt pay your contractors, you where greedy on both ends of the deal, and you took advantage of both the customer- walmart, as well as the contractor. You should be ashamed of your business ethics.


They seriously sent out a survey to this affect????

Darn shame you can only put four of these out....:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## loaderking (Dec 14, 2010)

buckwheat_la;1278616 said:


> tell them they need to pay, in advance of course, to do the survey


now that my friend is funny wish i had that thought when i sent back the survey haha


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## rsweeper (Nov 25, 2010)

Hey Loaderking, why dont you post that here for all of us to see what all they are asking, we all could use another joke about them


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## loaderking (Dec 14, 2010)

tcla;1278623 said:


> they seriously sent out a survey to this affect????
> 
> Darn shame you can only put four of these out....:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


yes they did i got it via email last friday.they even asked if i wanted a usm person to contact me and i replied yes... Of corase no one has contacted me and im still waiting for the mail man to bring my checks........


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## loaderking (Dec 14, 2010)

I did not save the survey to my computer im sorry i would have had no issue sharring it the questions delt with communication and did we understand the contract, the scope of work ,they also took liberty in laying out there terms again. Asked what could be done to fix the problems, start paying your contractors was my reply.


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## rsweeper (Nov 25, 2010)

Loaderking,

Now I have a problem with your posts, If they sent you a email, you should have it in your mail box. 99% of people do not delete there email right after they get it, let alone you shoukld have a copy of it in your sent mail answering there mail. Granted I want to see USM dig there grave and die, But I dont like people lieing about things that arnt true! Hopefully you will find your email and be able to prove what you stated. Until then even though I hope you find it and post it, I personally have to not believe what you are saying.


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## loaderking (Dec 14, 2010)

Listen bud i was the one that broke the news about the walmart usm split first on ps nobody belived me until the next day why would i lie about something as stupid as a survey from usm come on get real give usm a call and ask them for a survey. I have no reason to fabricate any stories about usm they do a good enough job trashing there own reputation themselves. Belive as you wish and yes i delate emails that have no further use.


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## rsweeper (Nov 25, 2010)

Well they wont send me a copy for sure, Told them no way would we ever work for them with there contract period. You on the other hand worked for them I would have to say or why would they have sent it to you. I was happy to tell them to pound sand in the begining, My walmarts are all happy now USM is gone and I allready have new start dates from them


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## loaderking (Dec 14, 2010)

Rswepper give me your email address i located the survey ill email it to you it goes thru a link to a on line survey mabey that will satisfy your intrest in my truthfulness........


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## rsweeper (Nov 25, 2010)

PM me the information, thanks


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

Who thinks that they should be invited to perform their survey on Plowsite? MJD I would pay to see that thread happen!!!


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

ok guys, we aren't doing the survey or is it to be posted here

thanks


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