# What The Heck...



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

So was really excited getting to bid this property we'll call site Jon Doe... Then I seen their bid sheet and got even more excited the way I interpreted it. Just curious how everyone else views it to be bid, and then I'll tell you how they explained it to me. Now not sure if I should run or....


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

They want a seasonal rate capped at 70" You provide equipment and materials as stated in contract. When called you have 30 min to go plow with said equipment. You have till the end of the week to tell them you serviced. Anything over 70" or servicing of sleet is billed separately at a rate of your bid divided by 70. Moving of piles is billed separately.
You only service when they call. Pretty poorly worded.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Freshwater said:


> They want a seasonal rate capped at 70" You provide equipment and materials as stated in contract. When called you have 30 min to go plow with said equipment. You have till the end of the week to tell them you serviced. Anything over 70" or servicing of sleet is billed separately at a rate of your bid divided by 70. Moving of piles is billed separately.
> You only service when they call. Pretty poorly worded.


Good start and for the most part what I thought and it gets way better... My first question was, when do you call 1"? 2"? ZT? I need a trigger to bid off of... You might take a second look at the sleet part and billing separate I don't see it being billed separately...


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Ok so the sleet is just fudged into the whole price. I'd just estimate how many times I'd handle stuff like that x a price per and add it in.
They don't understand it more important to bid on how many times you'll plow or how long it will take to plow. They just want the price for 70 inches they'll call as they feel it needs it, nevermind the finer details. Very poorly worded.

Look I'd just give them a solid seasonal price based on how I service sites and ask them to just let me handle it. They've already paid the money.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I'd run away from that "contract".

That's what I see in it.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'd run away from that "contract".
> 
> That's what I see in it.


They're over thinking it, they've already paid, just let the pro handle it.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

The whole drifting\sleet thing doesn't make sense. It isn't included in the 70" but include it in the base bid? What does that mean?

What's a 2x4 pickup? Who plows with a 2x4 pickup whatever it is?

I don't work for someone who doesn't let me make the call.

Why the rates for equipment? What difference does it make?

Too many red flags.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Oh we're just getting started... So he starts to explain billing and says so if it snows one week 2" and 4" the next you'd bill for a total of 6" for those two weeks. I said what? I said the way this is laid out we would normally bill out a seasonal in 4-6 equal monthly payments... He's like no we use the base number divided by 70 then X 6... Then anything under 1" you cannot bill for like a dusting to come salt when they call... They proceeded to say those salt only occurrences also need to be factored into your base bid...

So at this point in the meeting I'm so frustrated I said so is this a seasonal or a per occurrence..? I said you might as well throw this 70" out in the weeds as it's irelevent and just do a per push instead of all the dividing and carrying the one b.s... I mean they are trying to combine both! 

I later told them in reality they're screwing themselves as my per 1" pricing is going to be astronomical to cover that 1" plow and salt plus all the salts I cannot bill for. Not only that I stated in an actual 4-6" storm your paying me to salt that lot four to six times when in reality it's going to get salted once at the end and also to push it 4-6 times which I suppose could happen in high traffic areas but others maybe once or twice. Their answer to this was that's where the non chargeable salts offset this... I said no because I already have them factored into my base price... I guess do you play the percentages of occurrences for competitive bidding or cover your a$$.... So depressing thought a sweet seasonal with a 70" safety net...nope!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Like I said....I see "Run AWAY" even before all that BS.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Like I said....I see "Run AWAY" even before all that BS.


Yep your right...


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Oh we're just getting started... So he starts to explain billing and says so if it snows one week 2" and 4" the next you'd bill for a total of 6" for those two weeks. I said what? I said the way this is laid out we would normally bill out a seasonal in 4-6 equal monthly payments... He's like no we use the base number divided by 70 then X 6... Then anything under 1" you cannot bill for like a dusting to come salt when they call... They proceeded to say those salt only occurrences also need to be factored into your base bid...
> 
> So at this point in the meeting I'm so frustrated I said so is this a seasonal or a per occurrence..? I said you might as well throw this 70" out in the weeds as it's irelevent and just do a per push instead of all the dividing and carrying the one b.s... I mean they are trying to combine both!
> 
> I later told them in reality they're screwing themselves as my per 1" pricing is going to be astronomical to cover that 1" plow and salt plus all the salts I cannot bill for. Not only that I stated in an actual 4-6" storm your paying me to salt that lot four to six times when in reality it's going to get salted once at the end and also to push it 4-6 times which I suppose could happen in high traffic areas but others maybe once or twice. Their answer to this was that's where the non chargeable salts offset this... I said no because I already have them factored into my base price... I guess do you play the percentages of occurrences for competitive bidding or cover your a$$.... So depressing thought a sweet seasonal with a 70" safety net...nope!


I'll be honest I've read this 3 times and still can't figure it out...
Write them a real contract and see what they say...


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

This is what happens when you have some idiot in an office that knows nothing about snow and ice management writing specs/"contracts"

Run. Or bid it your way and produce your contract to match.


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## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> The whole drifting\sleet thing doesn't make sense. It isn't included in the 70" but include it in the base bid? What does that mean?
> 
> What's a 2x4 pickup? Who plows with a 2x4
> 
> ...


A 2x4 pickup is just that...A pickup built out of 2x4s....They are built in Kalamazoo Michigan


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Freshwater said:


> I'll be honest I've read this 3 times and still can't figure it out...





Defcon 5 said:


> A 2x4 pickup is just that...A pickup built out of 2x4s....They are built in Kalamazoo Michigan


Lol... I spilled pop all over my truck reading this...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Michael what was wrong with "what the freak"...


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

I changed the title as I don't think it's necessary to have that as a title...


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Freshwater said:


> I'll be honest I've read this 3 times and still can't figure it out...
> Write them a real contract and see what they say...


They dont want a real contract, they want one that talks in circles so they can interpret the way they want.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

Ajlawn1 said:


> Michael what was wrong with "what the freak"...


You got in trouble.....lol....

Seriously though sucks that it didn't turn out for you... there will be others...


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

LapeerLandscape said:


> They dont want a real contract, they want one that talks in circles so they can interpret the way they want.


Probably true...


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

LapeerLandscape said:


> They dont want a real contract, they want one that talks in circles so they can interpret the way they want.


This ^

Ridiculous spec's. Be nice and give them two options. Propose to them your per push, per shovel and per app pricing along with option #2 which is your seasonal/all inclusive pricing. One they can budget, the other they roll the dice and pay for the service the site receives. You take responsibility by using your discretion in order to keep the site safe. Once submitted move on with other potential clients.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Go to them with your contract. If they sign, great. If not, say, thanks for the opportunity and walk away.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

TCLA said:


> This ^
> 
> Ridiculous spec's. Be nice and give them two options. Propose to them your per push, per shovel and per app pricing along with option #2 which is your seasonal/all inclusive pricing. One they can budget, the other they roll the dice and pay for the service the site receives. You take responsibility by using your discretion in order to keep the site safe. Once submitted move on with other potential clients.


Thats just way too simple.


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