# ram 1500 sagging... 2500 springs?



## keith2001ram (Jun 24, 2017)

hey guys got a 2001 ram 1500 with a 7'6" diamond setup...man is that thing heavy and it sags ..im going to out some timbrens on and weight in the bed but does anyone know if 2500 springs will bolt right in?? i have to be close to the max gvwr. any suggestions wouod be great...thanks keith


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Check into airbags before the Timbrens....

Can't help with the springs.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Yes they do. Get the 2500 shocks for the diesel and it will give you the highest rating. It is a much rougher ride though when the plow is off


----------



## jdsquire (Nov 19, 2015)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Check into airbags before the Timbrens....
> 
> Can't help with the springs.


I'm a fan of the airbags I put on my SD.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

keith2001ram said:


> hey guys got a 2001 ram 1500 with a 7'6" diamond setup...man is that thing heavy and it sags ..im going to out some timbrens on and weight in the bed but does anyone know if 2500 springs will bolt right in?? i have to be close to the max gvwr. any suggestions wouod be great...thanks keith


Just go with the air bags, You only need them when the plow is on. I would not put a bunch of mods on a 1500.


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

If you put the heavier springs in, its gonna ride like crap. Timbrens and air bags.


----------



## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Not a fan of air bags in the front, unless done right with a auto dump and refill from the cab.


----------



## keith2001ram (Jun 24, 2017)

do not really have the budget for a air bag setup... anyone ever hear of the sumo springs?? looks like timbren setup but around 50$ cheaper..thoughts?


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Timbrens (and any variation of) suck.


----------



## Walleye Hunter (Aug 13, 2017)

The guys at ATS spring are very knowledgeable and great to deal with. They will ship all over the country for you. It can't hurt to give them a call.
http://www.autoandtrucksprings.com/


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Walleye Hunter said:


> The guys at ATS spring are very knowledgeable and great to deal with. They will ship all over the country for you. It can't hurt to give them a call.
> http://www.autoandtrucksprings.com/


Thanks for the linky....


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Are airbags much/any more expensive than Timbrens?


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

A few years ago everyone always said how great timbrens are, now it's all about air bags. Have the airbags come a long way or something, or did they just recently get popular? I have a set of the buyers wanna be timbrens in the front that work as they should, but a little rough with the plow. Do the airbags ride smoother, or why are they so much better? Was going to get a set of timberns for the rear, but thinking airbags seem to be better? Are they not a pain in the ass as far as always having to adjust them constantly?


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Air bags ride much smoother. 

Mark, the HD Timbrens are ~400 bucks the last set I bought. I think the air bags on my truck were 600ish. Not nearly enough of a difference to deal with the terrible ride.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

John_DeereGreen said:


> Air bags ride much smoother.
> 
> Mark, the HD Timbrens are ~400 bucks the last set I bought. I think the air bags on my truck were 600ish. Not nearly enough of a difference to deal with the terrible ride.


Or a cracked frame since Timbrens limit the suspension travel to the amount they compress under load since they're just fancy blocks mounted to frame on top of the axle....


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Or a cracked frame since Timbrens limit the suspension travel to the amount they compress under load since they're just fancy blocks mounted to frame on top of the axle....


Did I tell you my theory?

I can't remember...


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Did I tell you my theory?
> 
> I can't remember...


Negative ghost rider...... Timbens just took what people in the Ag industry have been doing since vehicles had suspension and made it techy....


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Negative ghost rider...... Timbens just took what people in the Ag industry have been doing since vehicles had suspension and made it techy....


I need a full size keyboard.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I need a full size keyboard.


This I have to hear


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

JMHConstruction said:


> This I have to hear


It'll start oof.... _"This one time at...."_


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

band camp.....

I had Timbrens on 3 Furds...1 '04 with leaf spring front, 2 '05s with coil spring fronts. Both '05s had cracked frames up front. Both had Timbrens. The '04 was OK, but I ended up removing them, put factory bump stops back in front and air bags in the rear. 

The frames never cracked again on either '05. Whether that was from the added gussets or removing Timbrens or both, we'll never know. But, Buzz's comment is exactly what I think happens when you add Timbrens. When compressed, that shock load has to go someplace. The springs and shocks can't absorb it because they are limited by big blocks of rubber. So it gets transferred to the pivot point between the Timbren and the plow hanging 6ish feet in front of the pivot point. 

I drank the Timbren Kool-Aid for awhile. Never liked the ride. After fixing 2 frames and talking with people aboot them, I came to realize that just maybe they aren't the greatest thing. Bought a set of airbags for that '04 and holy carp did they help the ride, not make it worse. We'd leave the shop with 3-4 tons of salt, 8611 oof the front and an 8' Ebling oof the back and other than the POS engine, you couldn't even feel the load. Put them on the rear of a 450 and same thing, it would squat bad withoot them, added them on and it rode like a dream. We could carry 4 tons of salt, 4 yards of topsoil, and it would ride level and not rock when turning. 

My personal opinion is that Timbrens are a huge scam, just like landscape fabric under mulch.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

The landscape paper under mulch is unnecessary? What about the grass coming though? I'm not BS en, I'm serious as a heart attack. lol


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

FredG said:


> The landscape paper under mulch is unnecessary? What about the grass coming though? I'm not BS en, I'm serious as a heart attack. lol


 When Mulch is applied as intended Landscape paper isn't needed. Now if your mulch is bark nugs as shown below I'd use paper due to the physical size of the nugs.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Were all those timbrens on 450/550 trucks Mark?



FredG said:


> The landscape paper under mulch is unnecessary? What about the grass coming though? I'm not BS en, I'm serious as a heart attack. lol


Mulch is organic...what does organic material do? Decompose. What do weed seeds need to grow? Soil, heat, and moisture.

It might give the illusion of helping the first 6 months, but beyond that it's a giant waste of time and money. Besides, the tough to control weeds (nutsedge, thistle, etc) have no problem growing right through it.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

FredG said:


> The landscape paper under mulch is unnecessary? What about the grass coming though? I'm not BS en, I'm serious as a heart attack. lol


My plant holding area has aboot 6 layers of it down, still have weeds growing through it.

The biggest reason for mulch is to change the composition of the soil over time, as it decomposes it adds organic matter to the soil. Either helping break down clay or helping sandy soil hold moisture. It also holds moisture overall, moderates soil temps and mimics the forest floor that is covered in leaves, needles, plant debris.

Add fabric in between the soil and mulch and you just eliminated the ability to change soil composition. Additionally weed seeds that fall on the mulch have a seed bed in which to germinate. It might slow down weeds that spread by rhizomes, but it by no means is effective in keeping weeds out of beds.

We do put it under stone to keep dirt oot of the stone and vice versa. But under mulch, it is the second biggest scam after TruGreen.


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

ok, back to the sagging truck and springs options/opinions

thanks


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Stone and mulch can make trucks sag so you should add airbags.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

So where does it absorb on the airbags if not on the frame? All the weight in the bags themselves? I've never even considered them, but I will now. Are all brands equal?

Sorry to hijack this thread by the way.

Oh and @Mark Oomkes, did you end up putting anything back in the front or just leave it stock?


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> So where does it absorb on the airbags if not on the frame? All the weight in the bags themselves? I've never even considered them, but I will now? Are all brands equal?


You cant put air bags on the front of a IFS GM truck. These trucks that they are talking about are soild axle lumber racks... the ride sucks from day one.

But as for the rear, they are awesome.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I use the Air Lift - Load Lifter 5000's on my trucks and vans.

https://www.airliftcompany.com/products/air-springs/loadlifter-5000/


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> You cant put air bags on the front of a IFS GM truck. These trucks that they are talking about are soild axle lumber racks... the ride sucks from day one.
> 
> But as for the rear, they are awesome.


So I guess my next question is then, do I need to take off my timbrens up front or are they okay? Marks got me all worried now.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Or since my spreader only be two yards do I even need anything?


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I have ran them for years on GM's with IFS. I have had them on GMT 400, GMT 800, GMT 900, and now the GMT K2XX frames. To much weight in the beds, no much plow on the front. Never had a single issue.

I think they are great. I recommend them everyone with an IFS GM.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Philbilly2 said:


> I use the Air Lift - Load Lifter 5000's on my trucks and vans.
> 
> https://www.airliftcompany.com/products/air-springs/loadlifter-5000/


This is what's on my truck. No clue what's on our dump, was on it when i bought it.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I would put air bags on the back.

Even though you only have a 2 yard spreader, you are talking 4000lbs.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

After having air bags on an F250 with a 2 yard spreader, I will comfortably say I wouldn't want to not have them.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Thanks guys, I'll look into them


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Okay Guys got ya on the paper, Had no clue. Back to the air bags,


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

The ones we have are set the air pressure with a shop compressor and tire gauge also. We don't have an onboard compressor for any of the 3 trucks that have them.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

John_DeereGreen said:


> The ones we have are set the air pressure with a shop compressor and tire gauge also. We don't have an onboard compressor for any of the 3 trucks that have them.


Agreed 100%. First set I ever had I had an on board compressor... waste of money. Fill them at the shop or gas station or with a bike pump


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

John_DeereGreen said:


> The ones we have are set the air pressure with a shop compressor and tire gauge also. We don't have an onboard compressor for any of the 3 trucks that have them.


Ditto


----------



## jdsquire (Nov 19, 2015)

Same with the Air Lift ones I put on the front axle of my SD. Got a small 12v compressor with battery clips. Fabricated a bracket to hold the schrader valves.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

JMHConstruction said:


> So I guess my next question is then, do I need to take off my timbrens up front or are they okay? Marks got me all worried now.


Apparently since you don't have a lumber wagon you can keep them on.


----------



## OneBadDodge06 (Sep 22, 2004)

If you want to go with 2500 front end springs, I have a pair of stocks I'd sell for a few bucks.


----------

