# Off-road Diesel



## sdplowing (Oct 7, 2006)

Two questions. 1. What's the difference between off-road diesel and regular diesel? 2. What's the penalty for using off-road diesel in my pickup? $3.09 a gallon for diesel is friggin rediculous:realmad: 

Sean


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

If I'm not mistaken it's red and blue. If caught the fine can be more than what you saved.Plus I think they hit you for back taxes.


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

1. I'm pretty sure the only difference is a dye and road tax.
2. The penalty, I'm not sure but probably a nice fine.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

The Ministry of Finance will dip your tanks here. You will save money but you are always worried about getting checked. The fine here is $1000 and you have to get your tank steam cleaned, plus they can go back 7 years and ask for back taxes if you can't show receipts. I did it when I was younger and my nerves were better.


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## Q101ATFD (Oct 24, 2006)

The fines vary, but a friend of mine in Florida got pulled over and had his tank dipped for off-road diesel. Luckily he was running regular diesel, but the officer said that the fine is $3000 if found, and $1500 for simply refusing a tank sample.

Most off-road diesel is still only Low-Sulfer and doesn't have to be ULSD until 2010, so it'll screw up your LMM if you have one - It won't hurt older diesels.


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

If you're talking about your pickup, I have never heard of NH Highway Enforcement checking a little "private" vehicle. If you're marked and registered or at least working commercially, then they have jurisdiction and can ask. But they generally only stick tanks in weigh stations, and you don't need to go in the weigh station with a pickup. The likelihood of them ever learning you are doing it is highly unlikely. Does that make it legal? Not really. Could you get away with it? Most probably. Do I care if the State and the big oil companies make more money by gouging the lifeblood out of every last one of us? Obviously not. 
Don't go into a weigh station if you are under 10k. Don't be registered or advertise that you are working commercially, and they can't look in your truck without a warrant. The more I think about it, it would probably be a huge pita for them to try to "stick" a modern pickup tank with the ball valve blocking it. I doubt that they are real worried about a guy with a 34 gallon tank when the big boys are carrying 300 gallon tanks.
The Big Oil bastids and the Feds got it pushed through to outlaw private users who burn WVO in their privately owned vehicles, in any amount over 400 gallons. So if you burn over 400 gallons of french fry oil, you are supposed to keep track of it and pay road tax and fuel tax and every other tax to keep the fat crooks rich.
Bout time someone throws some tea in the harbor.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Detroitdan;407394 said:


> If you're talking about your pickup, I have never heard of NH Highway Enforcement checking a little "private" vehicle. If you're marked and registered or at least working commercially, then they have jurisdiction and can ask. But they generally only stick tanks in weigh stations, and you don't need to go in the weigh station with a pickup. The likelihood of them ever learning you are doing it is highly unlikely. Does that make it legal? Not really. Could you get away with it? Most probably. Do I care if the State and the big oil companies make more money by gouging the lifeblood out of every last one of us? Obviously not.
> Don't go into a weigh station if you are under 10k. Don't be registered or advertise that you are working commercially, and they can't look in your truck without a warrant. The more I think about it, it would probably be a huge pita for them to try to "stick" a modern pickup tank with the ball valve blocking it. I doubt that they are real worried about a guy with a 34 gallon tank when the big boys are carrying 300 gallon tanks.
> The Big Oil bastids and the Feds got it pushed through to outlaw private users who burn WVO in their privately owned vehicles, in any amount over 400 gallons. So if you burn over 400 gallons of french fry oil, you are supposed to keep track of it and pay road tax and fuel tax and every other tax to keep the fat crooks rich.
> Bout time someone throws some tea in the harbor.


I got dipped when my 02 was 1 day old and she had no problem shoving this needle like thing down my filler neck. I'm not sure what it's like in the states but if you do get caught it's a PITA. Do you really need a search warrant to check a fuel tank? Isn't running off road diesel on the road kind of like tax evasion.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Here in Minnesota the DOT will fine you $10,000 if they discover you're running off road. I get checked at least twice a month and everytime I ask the inspector how many people have been caught and the numbers are staggering...over 600 so far this year! I suck at math but I think that's $6 MILLION in fines. 

Bottom line, don't run off road diesel.


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## sdplowing (Oct 7, 2006)

As much fun as a $10,000 fine would be I'd probably have to sell part of my liver to pay it. I thought diesel was supposed to be the cheapest of the fuels, not the most expensive. Will a D-max run on dirty diapers?

Sean


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

I never heard of anyone up here in NH getting stopped. We are not required to pull off at weight stations and I bet that when they look. We have plenty of Canadian trucks running junk and overloaded cargo to keep them busy.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Yaz;407533 said:


> We have plenty of Canadian trucks running junk and overloaded cargo to keep them busy.


LOL funny you mention that, we have the opposite problem... plenty of American trucks all clapped out and overloaded, keeps the MTO on their toes! Especially trucks like U-Hauls, out of Oregon... showed a mountain of pulled license plates on TV on the last Wreck-Check... something like 300 American U-hauls alone...? That was just one traffic stop location near Toronto...


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Get stopped by the State Police in Illinois and they may check your tank. I've seen it done many times. They don't need a search warrant. I was told that with so many people purchasing diesel pickups these days, the government is getting more concerned with violators.


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## 06HD BOSS (Nov 28, 2005)

I dont even drive a diesel and this pisses me off. Tax evation my a**. Being a truck owner alone we get wacked with enough taxes. Shoot my property tax per year is $700+, just got my registration renewed at $238 because my truck is 9200gvwr, nevermind the cost of filling the tank everyweek. Here in CT we have the highest fuel tax in the nation at 25cents per gallon on gasoline and 26cents on diesel. Wheres this money go? "To better the public roads"... NOT! I cant drive down one road or highway without hitting potholes. So if i had a diesel id be damn proud not giving these bastids another dime of my money. Damn straight id fill it up with french fry oil.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Hey Boss you must live in a shack for only 700.00 Try NY for gas tax and it's even more in my area (Buffalo):waving:
I seen the state dip trucks at the auction with all the farmers around


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Off road diesel simply doesn't have the road tax added, hence you can't use it in a road driven vehicle. Business owners(most of us are on this site) will get to write fuel purchases off at tax time anyway, I don't see what the big deal is really. You pay road tax with gasoline. Fines are not worth the savings.


I pay $3000 a year in property taxes whats that got to do with anything?


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## dmontgomery (Oct 3, 2003)

I pay $7000+ in property tax a year......and drive a diesel...


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

On the subject of property taxes/income taxes etc, come to Maine. We're in second place for taxes as percentage of income (Vermont took first place).

I was told by my oil dealer that the fine for using offroad diesel in an onroad vehicle is $10,000. For what I'd save in taxes, it's not worth the risk although getting stuck is unlikely. First - it IS tax evasion and Second - fuel tax is a deduction every year. So, if you didn't pay it and still claimed it, you could potentially be fined $10,000 for using it, tried for tax evasion and tried again for a fraudulent tax return. 

Yep, good idea. Go ahead and use offroad diesel to save, what, $5 or $6 on a 30 gallon tank?


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

dmontgomery;407640 said:


> I pay $7000+ in property tax a year......and drive a diesel...


:realmad: Try 10,000+ in the "live free or die" state.:crying:


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## 06HD BOSS (Nov 28, 2005)

grandview;407636 said:


> Hey Boss you must live in a shack for only 700.00


Im talking only on one truck $700 tax. not house tax


dlcs;407637 said:


> I pay $3000 a year in property taxes whats that got to do with anything?


On one vehicle?...No. Im only talking about my truck. Well if you add up all the things i own, my total property tax per year is right around $2500. . . i dont own a house.
But property tax on my parents house is over $6000 and its 1800sq ft. on 0.75 acres.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

. Shoot my property tax per year is $700+,

Hey Boss I know you can't type So I won't beat you down like Giada did. (can't forget about her!):salute:


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## 06HD BOSS (Nov 28, 2005)

grandview;407668 said:


> So I won't beat you down like Giada did. (can't forget about her!):salute:


Its pretty hard to when she lays in the same bed with me everynight.


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## lieutlamson (Dec 4, 2006)

Its important to note that off road diesel is home heating fuel. Home heating fuel is high sulfur while the new diesel is ultra low. Running high sulfur in any of these engines even pre 07 isnt really the best thing for them. All the programing is set to run on either low or ultra low. Plus if the dealer detects anything but regular diesel they can void the warranty. 

This fall off road diesel will become separate from home heating fuel in that it will be ultra low sulfur. The increase is about 25 cents or so from regular heating oil but still less than regular diesel.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Did you get permission?:realmad:

If you want to continue this go to this thread!

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=42001:drinkup: :salute:


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

dlcs;407637 said:


> Off road diesel simply doesn't have the road tax added, hence you can't use it in a road driven vehicle. Business owners(most of us are on this site) will get to write fuel purchases off at tax time anyway, I don't see what the big deal is really. You pay road tax with gasoline. Fines are not worth the savings.
> 
> I pay $3000 a year in property taxes whats that got to do with anything?


It does have the dye added though.

Supposedly, they do not have to dip tanks anymore, they have something like a radar gun that is aimed at the tailpipe and will tell them if you're using off-road.


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## sdplowing (Oct 7, 2006)

Ok, ok. I won't use offroad diesel. Maybe I'll start making my own bio-diesel. I could plow snow and smell like chinese food


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## towman (Aug 19, 2003)

here in PA we pay 43 cents tax on every gallon of gas


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

For anyone interested in thier State fuel taxes: http://www.taxadmin.org/FTA/rate/motor_fl.html


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

sdplowing;407836 said:


> Ok, ok. I won't use offroad diesel. Maybe I'll start making my own bio-diesel. I could plow snow and smell like chinese food


You're making me hungry


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## Detroitdan (Aug 15, 2005)

I have thought many times about making home brew diesel from waste vegetable oil. But I never have the capital to buy the equipment, even though I know it would pay for itself eventually. What I don't understand is why some people don't get together to form a co-op or something, maybe sell it cheap to members (for off road use only, of course;>)
Supposedly all this good WVO is just going to waste, the restaurants have to pay to have it hauled off.


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## ABES (Jun 10, 2007)

lol with everybody *****ing about how high taxes are remember to VOTE REPUBLICAN lol


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

lieutlamson;407671 said:


> Its important to note that off road diesel is home heating fuel. Home heating fuel is high sulfur while the new diesel is ultra low. Running high sulfur in any of these engines even pre 07 isnt really the best thing for them. All the programing is set to run on either low or ultra low. Plus if the dealer detects anything but regular diesel they can void the warranty.
> 
> This fall off road diesel will become separate from home heating fuel in that it will be ultra low sulfur. The increase is about 25 cents or so from regular heating oil but still less than regular diesel.


WHAT? Isn't heating fuel #1 diesel. Is that waht you mean by off-road or do you mean non-tax. Non-tax is just dyed diesel. I know you can run heating diesel in diesel motors that doesn't have the lubicity that #2 diesel has. #1 has similar traits to kerosene. You can burn it, your fuel milage will drop, she will smoke alot of white smoke, and RPMs will be no where near what you need. And if we are saying that off-road diesel is the same as dyed diesel then it is not good enough to run in my $46,000 truck, but it is what they tell me to run in my $200,000 combine. Seems a little weird to me. I am not doubting your knowledge of fuels I have just heard way differnet from my FS fuel salesman. I am thinking that people are talking about two differnet types of fuel here. Some are speeking of dyed commonly known as off road (red fuel) and some are speaking of #1 heating diesel. Maybe, Maybe not.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Our fuel supplier, fills our coulored tank for the tractors and then fills our house with the same fuel. They don't carry heating oil anymore. He says it's low sulfur and the clear is Ultra low sulphur. I wanted to make sure it was ULS for my LMM because of the DPF. Coloured #2 diesel is fine to run in all preDPF vehicles.


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## sdplowing (Oct 7, 2006)

*Bio-Diesel*

Does anyone, or has anyone run bio-diesel? I'm not talking about WVO, but real bio-diesel. It cause any problems?


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## bribrius (May 5, 2007)

Philbilly2;408076 said:


> WHAT? Isn't heating fuel #1 diesel. Is that waht you mean by off-road or do you mean non-tax. Non-tax is just dyed diesel. I know you can run heating diesel in diesel motors that doesn't have the lubicity that #2 diesel has. #1 has similar traits to kerosene. You can burn it, your fuel milage will drop, she will smoke alot of white smoke, and RPMs will be no where near what you need. And if we are saying that off-road diesel is the same as dyed diesel then it is not good enough to run in my $46,000 truck, but it is what they tell me to run in my $200,000 combine. Seems a little weird to me. I am not doubting your knowledge of fuels I have just heard way differnet from my FS fuel salesman. I am thinking that people are talking about two differnet types of fuel here. Some are speeking of dyed commonly known as off road (red fuel) and some are speaking of #1 heating diesel. Maybe, Maybe not.


i dunno. i know i just paid 2.649 a gallon for heating oil. and its not even winter yet. maybe we should be VOTING for cheaper fuel. i live in maine too and run two furnaces so my heating budget has been really scary for the last few years.


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