# Time to go to court?



## 2moresleeps (Aug 23, 2006)

In early November, I requested 2 salters and a plow from a dealer in Scarborough. At the time, the dealer was EXCELLENT in that he found 2 poly salters for us when no one else could. 

I promptly put a deposit on them and the plow. At the time, the dealer had only 1 salter but a few days later called me and the second one arrived as promised.

I gave the dealer a money order for $11480.00 for the 2 salters and the plow. The plow was last years western and I wanted new so I then cancelled the plow from the Scarborough dealer and ordered the new western V from my local dealer.

The difference owed to me is just over $4000.00. This issue happened in November....since then, I have ordered a strobe light for our truck ($371) as I felt bad for cancelling the plow even though the dealer told me he didn't have a problem with it.

Now, it has been since the middle of November and I have yet to receive my money. I have called every other day and I have been given soooo many B.S. excuses. I have been told twice, on two different weeks that the accountant just got back the week earlier??? WTH?

I call and call and I am told this will be taken care of next week...next week....next week. I just filed with the BBB online tonight as I am tired of chasing my money. 

I ask if it's time to go to court as I am not sure if this is normal.......to take this long to issue a refund that was paid via money order. I don't get it???? If I am wrong, I will make it right but if not, I will have no prob telling EVERYONE I know NEVER to deal with this company.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

Your not wrong, when they cashed the m/o they should have refunded your 4,000. I would take legal action. i wouldn't wait any longer. Also i would go down in person, and let them know your taking legal action. Good luck


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## 2moresleeps (Aug 23, 2006)

I called friday and was told that it would be ready mid-week. Mind you, I have heard this 3 times before. I will be filing court papers on Wednesday and taking them to the dealer on Wednesday as well.

I will have to include court costs and such and I really hate to do this but I feel at this point, I have no other choice. The good thing is I have phone records showing a minimum of 21 calls to this company.

I'd like to know how long before the BBB contacts them.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

That is a good idea take the papers there and tell them your taking them to court.. i am not sure how long it takes i would guess sometime this week. Do you have a bill with the two sanders and the plow with the 3 prices? and when you picked up the 2 sanders did they give you any type of receipt?


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## 2moresleeps (Aug 23, 2006)

Quality SR;345251 said:


> That is a good idea take the papers there and tell them your taking them to court.. i am not sure how long it takes i would guess sometime this week. Do you have a bill with the two sanders and the plow with the 3 prices? and when you picked up the 2 sanders did they give you any type of receipt?


Yes, I ve got all the paperwork and receipts. If it were a couple hundred, I wouldn't even blink but for several thousand, it's cutting into my salt money and payroll.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

Then go for it........I hope it works out for you... Let me know what happens. Good luck to you.:salute:


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

I'd call the guys bluff. Id go down there with all the court papers filled out and tell him he either gives you a check or your on your way to file! If you are using a lawyer i would wait till you see what he does before getting the lawyer on board. Even if all the papers are not filled out right the dealer will not know this. When lawyers get involve everything takes ten times longer.

Let us know how this plays out


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## crazymike (Oct 22, 2004)

what dealer?


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## 2moresleeps (Aug 23, 2006)

crazymike;345309 said:


> what dealer?


It is a WELL KNOWN dealer crazymike. At this point, I don't want to mention the name and I want to only state the facts (not to bash them). I know the dealer is familiar with this site as he referenced it once during a conversation.

I don't want to come here and do the usual "This dealer sucks etc" as (I know I might be a fool) I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt.

A FEW THINGS THIS DEALER DID THAT I DON'T LIKE:

#1. We took our poly caster to him when it broke down with a 2/3 load in it (the very first load). The dealer looked in the back of the truck and stated a rock was stuck in the conveyor belt and it stressed it to the point where it blew out.

- We had river rock (about 105lbs) in the rear of the truck next to the spreader. Only the rock wasn't loaded until AFTER the unit broke down.  (NICE TRY).

#2. Told us the shear (sp) pin broke due to the stress of the unit being overloaded.

- With receipt in hand from the first and ONLY time we loaded it, it clearly showed 2/3 of a ton.  (again, nice try)

#3. When the dealer thought we were buying the plow AND 2 salters, I stated we should have purchased tie downs.....he then threw 4 of them at us and said "Here ya go buddy".

- When we cancelled the plow purchase, we received an invoice for $171.00 for them  
(This doesn't upset me too much as we needed them anyway and when priced out, the dealer gave them at cost but I know we wouldn't have been charged if the plow was purchased too.......it's just that he should have told us upfront) However, we did spend just under $8000.00 with him......no biggie.

#4. I was furious on friday when I called them last and commented that if we were CLINTAR (a rather large company in our area) we would not have waited this long.

- The only nice salesperson at this dealership said "Yeah, you're probably right"

THAT'S WHAT CHAPS MY A$$ MORE THAN ANYTHING.

I have contracts next year that will quadruple my current biz. Initially, I would have thrown my next years purchases to him and any repairs......now, he lost my biz forever and the kicker is......

IT'S MY FREAKIN MONEY HE'S HOLDING. It's not like I am asking for handouts or something I am not entitled to. UNBELIEVABLE.!!!


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## lawnmasters2006 (Sep 19, 2006)

i would add interest on the $$ they owe you...payup


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## Plowfast9957 (Feb 14, 2005)

Why would you pay $4000 for something that you didn't get. Maybe like a $100 deposit but I have never heard of paying in full for something from a dealer that they had to order. That was your mistake but it does not mean that they shouldn't have given you your refund by now. I would go there and meet the guy face to face because you will most likely get better results than over the phone.


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## 2moresleeps (Aug 23, 2006)

Plowfast9957;345372 said:


> Why would you pay $4000 for something that you didn't get. Maybe like a $100 deposit but I have never heard of paying in full for something from a dealer that they had to order. That was your mistake but it does not mean that they shouldn't have given you your refund by now. I would go there and meet the guy face to face because you will most likely get better results than over the phone.


I have been to the dealer no less than 4 times to get my money refunded. I gave them a money order for a plow and 2 salters. I cancelled the plow order 2 days after they received the money order which is why they owe.


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## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

Now I'm even wondering if I know the dealer.
Not cause we have had problems with our main dealer, Just wondering if there really could be night and day between our dealing and yours, if by chance it was the same dealer.


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## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Why wouldn't they just refund your money the day you cancelled the order? Why would you have to wait? Why would you wait this long? Stop calling them and get down there and stay on their arse until you get your money. They don't need a fricken accountant to refund your money. The owner or management should be able to do this easily. You need to get on them and stop letting them screw with you. What kind of tie downs cost $171.00 for a set of four? They are really hosing you.


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## CHCSnowman (Nov 11, 2006)

dlcs;345397 said:


> Why wouldn't they just refund your money the day you cancelled the order? Why would you have to wait? Why would you wait this long? Stop calling them and get down there and stay on their arse until you get your money. They don't need a fricken accountant to refund your money. The owner or management should be able to do this easily. You need to get on them and stop letting them screw with you. What kind of tie downs cost $171.00 for a set of four? They are really hosing you.


WIth all the scams involving money orders and certified checks I can understand them making you wait 30 days for refund......one of the largest scams in the world right now involve giving counterfiet money orders to someone, then asking for partial refund.....they give you refund and you leave with cash..........then money order bounces after about 14 days(once its proven fraud)........AND YOU ARE STUCK WITH LOSS OF CASH YOU GAVE THEM PLUS WHAT YOUR BANK TAKES FROM YOUR ACCOUNT!!!

I would never have given them $4000 to start with. You should have given a deposit and paid remainder when the salter AND PLOW was in........or paid for salters seperate and then plow when it came in......either way.........I would never front people money for anything until I get what I am paying for.

On the other hand though........after the money order cleared....he should have refunded your money. You'll get him in court as long as you have proof and he dont file bankruptcy.

I had a lady once I put a roof on her home...$11,000 and she didnt pay me when I was done with work, I sued and won...she filed bankruptcy and I never got anything!!

Best to you!


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## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

CHCSnowman;345454 said:


> WIth all the scams involving money orders and certified checks I can understand them making you wait 30 days for refund......one of the largest scams in the world right now involve giving counterfiet money orders to someone, then asking for partial refund.....they give you refund and you leave with cash..........then money order bounces after about 14 days(once its proven fraud)........AND YOU ARE STUCK WITH LOSS OF CASH YOU GAVE THEM PLUS WHAT YOUR BANK TAKES FROM YOUR ACCOUNT!!!
> 
> I would never have given them $4000 to start with. You should have given a deposit and paid remainder when the salter AND PLOW was in........or paid for salters seperate and then plow when it came in......either way.........I would never front people money for anything until I get what I am paying for.
> 
> ...


Just cause you win the case, doesn't mean you'll see the money.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

He gave you a price based on a order for 2 spreaders and 1 plow and now you only want the spreaders. You offered a total package deal and he structured his profits with you purchasing all three units. Now you want the three unit pricing on the purchase of two units. In all our multiple unit sales the price is based on the entire package. drop one unit from the agreement the price of the remaining units is restructured. We also build all discounts in to the last unit installed to try an avoid these kind of problems. 

Deal with lowballers in any business and you get what you pay for. Brokers use your money to make their money. If you waited two days they might have already ordered the unit and it was on a truck headed for you. Could be they are waiting to sell the unit they ordered for you, so they have the money to pay you back.

You most certainly should be getting money back but maybe you need to go sit on the bosses desk until you can reach a amicable agreement.


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## [email protected] (Aug 6, 2006)

My father had a issue like this when he purchased his car. Purchased extras and the $$ for install as well. Long story short is they owed him $400. After excuses for 2 weeks, I went to the dealership. 

Walked in, said hi how are you. Asked for the sale manager and explained that he had a hour to have a check cut to my father or he would have a wrecked show room. He chuckled and thought I was joking. That's when I called the guys out of my truck. Needless to say that (5) 240 pound guys stood in the showroom and commented about the issues we were having very loudly. I think it took 1/2 hour until I had the check in hand. I even commented that if the check bounced, I wouldn't be nice the next time I was back.

Sometimes you need to take matters into your own hands.


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## 2moresleeps (Aug 23, 2006)

[email protected];345586 said:


> My father had a issue like this when he purchased his car. Purchased extras and the $$ for install as well. Long story short is they owed him $400. After excuses for 2 weeks, I went to the dealership.
> 
> Walked in, said hi how are you. Asked for the sale manager and explained that he had a hour to have a check cut to my father or he would have a wrecked show room. He chuckled and thought I was joking. That's when I called the guys out of my truck. Needless to say that (5) 240 pound guys stood in the showroom and commented about the issues we were having very loudly. I think it took 1/2 hour until I had the check in hand. I even commented that if the check bounced, I wouldn't be nice the next time I was back.
> 
> Sometimes you need to take matters into your own hands.


You scare me [email protected]

If I ever owe you money, just let me know and we'll square up straight away.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

I agree with [email protected] you have to go there instead of playing the phone game...
Make them see you mean business.. and if you don't get the money.........................
  .... you know what i mean?????


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## [email protected] (Aug 6, 2006)

Honestly, I am a nice guy. I just hate people taking advantage of people. Especially somebody I know or care about and even more so when it's got to do with money. 

I am not tough guy. I just believe in treating people the way I want to be treated. Sometimes people mistake kindness for weakness and that's when the wake up call happens. If I were closer I would help out. Keep us informed.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

[email protected] you are right... but, when someone is scr**ing you around, and they are holding money from you ($4000, thats alot of money) you should kick it up a notch (with out violence) and go down there and do like you did and demand your money, and if no action is taken. You then got to the next step..... court


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## andrewlawnrangr (Dec 3, 2004)

i pay with Credit card a little easier to get money back and the problem mighjt be that u waited to long. just file papers dont go down there guy could spart somthing like file agaist u for harrassment..

good luck

let it snow


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## jce4isu (Sep 12, 2005)

walk in there take a seat and tell them that you will not leave till you have check in hand also tell every cust that walk in your story


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## maxkicker (Jul 30, 2006)

[email protected];345586 said:


> My father had a issue like this when he purchased his car. Purchased extras and the $$ for install as well. Long story short is they owed him $400. After excuses for 2 weeks, I went to the dealership.
> 
> Walked in, said hi how are you. Asked for the sale manager and explained that he had a hour to have a check cut to my father or he would have a wrecked show room. He chuckled and thought I was joking. That's when I called the guys out of my truck. Needless to say that (5) 240 pound guys stood in the showroom and commented about the issues we were having very loudly. I think it took 1/2 hour until I had the check in hand. I even commented that if the check bounced, I wouldn't be nice the next time I was back.
> 
> Sometimes you need to take matters into your own hands.


what a great idea! walk in do 4k worth of damage get arrested and now your getting sued for 8k ssems to me like hed be doing the guy a favor


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## maxkicker (Jul 30, 2006)

jce4isu;345659 said:


> walk in there take a seat and tell them that you will not leave till you have check in hand also tell every cust that walk in your story


exactly.. also tell him youll be there untill the court date lol


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## Rcgm (Dec 17, 2000)

I had a problem kinda like this one before same bull crap finally after the third time to a dealer I said if I do not get my money back TODAY or the mower fixed TODAY I will be back here with 5 friends tomorrow morning with HUGE signs right out in front of your store on public property telling everyone that you rip people off and then when a customer comes up to me I will tell them that you took advantage of my 72 year old grandmother and then I will give them your competetors card with a 5 percent discount on that card and your business will be history.2 hours later my mower had a new engine on it ready to go 

RCGM
Brad


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## [email protected] (Aug 6, 2006)

maxkicker;345672 said:


> what a great idea! walk in do 4k worth of damage get arrested and now your getting sued for 8k ssems to me like hed be doing the guy a favor


If that is how you feel. Not everyone can walk the line....


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## DodgeRam1985 (Nov 30, 2006)

I'm going to have to side with [email protected] on this one. I had a problem with a gun dealer in this neck of the woods. I simply went in after making several phone calls, requesting my money be retrunedto me. After two attempts of trying to go in and get the money, I finally asked some friends for help (one was a banker and the other a professional repo). I then walked in the next day, showed some pictures of his house and commented on how nice it looked, and that I did in fact know where he lived, and how if I didn't not leave with my money that very day, I would be showing up at his house. 15 minutes later, I had a personal check from him in my hand, I made him come with me to the bank and get it cashed (to ensure he couldn't cancel the check and that it wouldn't bounce). He is now out of business and the real kicker is that I plow his subdivision (except he optedout of the contract), and I don't feel the slightest bit bad when a little extra snow gets thrown in his driveway every snow (just wish I had the chance to do it this year!!!!!).


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## [email protected] (Aug 6, 2006)

DodgeRam1985;346621 said:


> I'm going to have to side with [email protected] on this one. I had a problem with a gun dealer in this neck of the woods. I simply went in after making several phone calls, requesting my money be retrunedto me. After two attempts of trying to go in and get the money, I finally asked some friends for help (one was a banker and the other a professional repo). I then walked in the next day, showed some pictures of his house and commented on how nice it looked, and that I did in fact know where he lived, and how if I didn't not leave with my money that very day, I would be showing up at his house. 15 minutes later, I had a personal check from him in my hand, I made him come with me to the bank and get it cashed (to ensure he couldn't cancel the check and that it wouldn't bounce). He is now out of business and the real kicker is that I plow his subdivision (except he optedout of the contract), and I don't feel the slightest bit bad when a little extra snow gets thrown in his driveway every snow (just wish I had the chance to do it this year!!!!!).


The old saying "you get more with honey" is BS when somebody has your hard earned cash. It's not like yoru strong arming them, it's your damn money. Maxkicker can say what he wants but I have had great success doing it my way.

I see it one way folks; if your playing with my money, then you playing with my emotions. And I can't have that. Sometimes you have to make an example of somebody, just in case the other idiots thought of messing with ya.

I live by simple rules.


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## cincy snowdog (Dec 19, 2005)

try the media threat.news and newspaper and even tell him you will post his name here on plowsite.i am sure we can get the word out for you.(dont slander) tell him the plowsite name and to look for himself .
they wouldnt like it posted in the publics eyes,if you take him to court,he has time to payup before the court date and avoid the final results but it will give him time.As far as threats watch out for what you say and do in that dealership-cameras are everywhere,the last thing you want him to do is turn it around on a threat charge.
Doing it the right way it will be better off for you in the long run.
Also maybe a delay for the new year?tax paperwork ?


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## 2moresleeps (Aug 23, 2006)

I sent my bookkeeper down to the court house today. I had her call the dealership directly if she needed any info. She called them and asked what the correct address was to put on the court paperwork. The dealer said he didn't want it to come to that and if we could wait until tomorrow, he would have a check ready either Friday night or first thing Monday morning.

I am satisfied with the outcome. I am hoping for the check Monday morning because I really don't want to get this anymore out of hand than it already is. I really don't dislike this person or his company, I just think they wouldn't have sat on their thumbs if I were a bigger company.

We shall see what happens Monday.


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## QuadPlower (Jan 4, 2007)

you're nicer than I would be. I can see the example of the dealer making money on a three item deal. Worse case is that he gives you a new price for the two items. If the plow had already been order than maybe a "re stocking or return fee" Then give you the difference.

He also lost all those all those rights when he took so long to get your money back. I would figure out what $4000 in a saveing account would make and charge him for it. All you have to do is send them a bill for your time. Worst case is that they don't pay it.

I personally would never go back. And I would tell everyone I knew what happened. He is going to loose more than $4000 over this deal from customers you might have turned away from his shop.

If you took this long to pay your invoice, he would have charged you interest or already filed the paper work.

I would take back the straps with the invoice and return them. Then go buy them somewhere else. Even if they cost more.

Dont go to the media. That is too close to slander. Just telling everyone that will listen will be good enough.

Let us know what happens Monday.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

DodgeRam1985;346621 said:


> I finally asked some friends for help (one was a banker and the other a professional repo). I then walked in the next day, showed some pictures of his house and commented on how nice it looked, and that I did in fact know where he lived, and how if I didn't not leave with my money that very day, I would be showing up at his house.!!!!!).


I'd have left the room for a moment, called the cops and had all three of you arrested, charged with terroristic threating, then made sure the local paper got the story. The REBO man might keep his license, the banker would be out of work, and you'd all be on probation.

Collecting money is one thing, thinly veiled threats against a man's home and family


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## SkykingHD (Jan 31, 2002)

*the system does work*

Our law system works if you try to get a judgment against someone that has something. If the person you are trying to collect from has put everything in a trust or in someone else's name you have to resort to "other means" to get your money. Sometimes this might be worth it or it can backfire and not be worth it.

I have found most courts except for domestic relations courts are for law and order. Most will even advise you on how to collect your judgment.

Here is a good story that just happened to me in 2006.

I work for a multi national automotive company. We have in our contract that I can go to school. All schools that are "government approved" will be funded. I took a school called recurrent training as I have been an airplane pilot for over 25 years. They denied it. I took the school paid for it and then went to small claims court and got a judgment. I took the judgment and tried to get it paid using normal channels at this company. An attorney for the company thought he could bluff me and use delaying tactics. I put a lean on a multi million dollar door assembly line. The sheriff attached the door line and the dumb stuff stopped. I had my $1050.00 in 2 days. BTW this is the 4th time I have had to file suit to get this company to abide by the contract. I won every time and have had to threaten attachment every time, ya think they would learn. (being this is a union - company joint program the grievance procedure did not apply)

The system does work IF THE PERSON THAT OWES YOU HAS SOMETHING if they don't well good luck.

I have used both the legal way and well the not so legal.


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## poncho62 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Not siding with one or the other on this................But, who pays for something with a money order these days?

When I read the 1st post and you said "Money Order", I thought that was strange.

I know it's legal tender and all, but who does it? In this day with Interac, credit cards etc..........I don't see the point. I think this may have something to do with their reluctance.*


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## [email protected] (Aug 6, 2006)

basher;348465 said:


> I'd have left the room for a moment, called the cops and had all three of you arrested, charged with terroristic threating, then made sure the local paper got the story. The REBO man might keep his license, the banker would be out of work, and you'd all be on probation.
> 
> Collecting money is one thing, thinly veiled threats against a man's home and family


I can understand what your talking about. I agree, playing with a mans home is not good. Neither is holding my cash and taking from my families bottom line. It's the same thing in my eyes.

The way I see it, the dealer is in the wrong. Any action taken in order to get the refund is okay by me. Let's remember, this wouldn't be happening if the dealer just refunded the money.

Cops and arrested though, boy, he would feel pain! When I was in these positions, I meant what I said. I don't put a condom on unless I am gonna screw. I grew up very hard knox and don't see any grey area here. Every action has a reaction and when you play with people money, you should prepare for the reaction.

I also agree that paying with a money order wasn't smart. He should have payed when he received the merchandise or just put a deposit. A money order isn't much different from cash or a check for that matter.


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## Bruce'sEx (Sep 16, 2006)

well different then a cheque, since the money has to be there, to get the order.


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## 2moresleeps (Aug 23, 2006)

poncho62;348482 said:


> *Not siding with one or the other on this................But, who pays for something with a money order these days?
> 
> When I read the 1st post and you said "Money Order", I thought that was strange.
> 
> I know it's legal tender and all, but who does it? In this day with Interac, credit cards etc..........I don't see the point. I think this may have something to do with their reluctance.*


The ONLY reason I paid with a money order was it came from my partners father. He (my partners father) owns a tire biz....(by the way, anyone needing truck or car tires and are from my area, PM me and you ll save HUGE....anyway, back to the story) borrowed money from us last fall and agreed to pay it back in the spring knowing we had multiple purchases for equipment to make. We told him the total for the plow and two salters, he went to the bank and came back with a money order for that amount.

I wanted to use my CC for the rewards but at the time, the weather was calling for a big snow dump and I didnt care how the money came to be. The dealer didnt have a reason to be reluctant. We told him to hold the equipment until it cleared....a simple phone call to the bank was all that was necessary.


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## Freddy_Kruger (Mar 16, 2006)

Well it's monday, did you get your money?


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## Stone Mountain (Dec 31, 2006)

[email protected];345586 said:


> My father had a issue like this when he purchased his car. Purchased extras and the $$ for install as well. Long story short is they owed him $400. After excuses for 2 weeks, I went to the dealership.
> 
> Walked in, said hi how are you. Asked for the sale manager and explained that he had a hour to have a check cut to my father or he would have a wrecked show room. He chuckled and thought I was joking. That's when I called the guys out of my truck. Needless to say that (5) 240 pound guys stood in the showroom and commented about the issues we were having very loudly. I think it took 1/2 hour until I had the check in hand. I even commented that if the check bounced, I wouldn't be nice the next time I was back.
> 
> Sometimes you need to take matters into your own hands.


Try that today and you'd be in jail for extortion, intimidation, and g-d knows what else.
You can't get away with that any more.


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## 2moresleeps (Aug 23, 2006)

WELL...today I deposited a cheque for the refund. It was supposed to be ready at 1pm and our bookkeeper had to wait until 3pm but I got the call and the cheque is in her hand....My hats off to this company for making good.


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## rgrimes945 (Oct 22, 2006)

*Good for You!!!*

I'm glad to see you got the funds, now if it just clears. if not burn his azzz up !

Ray Grimes


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## 2moresleeps (Aug 23, 2006)

rgrimes945;349192 said:


> I'm glad to see you got the funds, now if it just clears. if not burn his azzz up !
> 
> Ray Grimes


It took him longer to get the cheque to us due to him having it certified. The funds are good....thankfully.


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## cjasonbr (Nov 18, 2005)

I don't know anything about Canada, but here, at the US, they don't issue money order's over $999.000. At least that's how every money order purchase i made went.


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## [email protected] (Aug 6, 2006)

I am glad you got the cash back. All in all, it's better than having to go through court. Good luck.


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

cjasonbr;349315 said:


> I don't know anything about Canada, but here, at the US, they don't issue money order's over $999.000. At least that's how every money order purchase i made went.


Yes they do.. Just go to any US post office.


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## MSS Mow (Mar 19, 2006)

Yaz;349391 said:


> Yes they do.. Just go to any US post office.


banks do too, but they just call them Treasurers Checks instead of Money Orders over a certain amount.


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