# First Time Snow Removal Bid



## Littlesnow (Aug 31, 2018)

Ok so this is going to sound laughable, but a connection of mine I know offered me the opportunity to bid on an extremely large complex. My normal line of work is building and development so I've never done snow removal. I have the man power to get the job done, however I don't have the equipment. Please, if you have any advice or possible guesstimations it would be greatly appreciated. 
Location Info:
I am located in lower NY just outside of NYC. The location is compromised of predominately office buildings which are often open 24/7, but also has some loading docks. There are 16 office buildings. The entirety of the complex is roughly 70 acres.
From what I see I'm estimating I'll need: 
8 big plow trucks with salt spreaders. 
5 big loaders 2.5- 3 yard buckets, with pusher boxes
3 small loaders, with pusher boxes
2 small side walk machines such as the Kubota RTV1100 with brushes
35 laborers
15 operators/drivers
85 yards of salt per occurrence
Liquid calcium or bag calcium?

Bid Information: Calcium on all side walks and paths, salt on the roadways and blacktop.
Snow Cap: 34 inches
Trigger: 1 inch
Average occurrences per year in my area: 8-12
Average snow accumulation: 45 inches
The contract states they are to be paid back a set price for any inch below the 34 inch snow cap.

I'm coming up with something around the $800,000 mark with a 25% buffer added in for the intial 34 inch contract. The site plan below isn't to good but let me know what you guys think. Am I way out of line?

I don't want to turn down the opportunity as I'm not one to walk away from doing something out of my wheel house.


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

I do not know where to start. No one can give you a price on this. You have no snow experience? How much will it cost you just to purchase the equipment? Did you check on insurance rates yet? How did you come up with your numbers so far?


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I don't...


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mr.Markus said:


> I don't...


That was a little, SHORT.


----------



## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Having the manpower, and having the knowledge and experience to manage a snow removal site of this apparent scale and scope are 2 drastically different things. 

I think doing as was suggested above, you explain to us how you got the machine/equipment requirements would be a good start.


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I had a whole reply in my head about 50 employees for 8-12 events, 85 tons of salt per app, how much for refreeze.
Monitoring, what if you're out for 20 events but don't hit the cap and owe money back, then I realized I don't ...


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Can’t see your site plan. Just going by the other numbers you said in your post. 45 inch average with a 34 inchcap? That doesn’t compute. You must mean 34” is the floor if that’s the give back depth. Your cap would be around 60”.

70 acres of pavement to deice = +\- 35 tons, not 85 yards

85 yards of salt = 102 tons.

102 ton app = $21,420 per app.

35 ton app = $7,350 per app.

Your $800,000 guess is way north of the real number even for a 70 acre site open 24/7. That is unless there’s 495,000 sq ft of sidewalks to service.

Zero snow and ice management experience and you think you can pull this off?

Your awesome. Go for it! God bless you if you can get 800k for that


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Luther said:


> Can't see your site plan. Just going by the other numbers you said in your post. 45 inch average with a 34 inchcap? That doesn't compute. You must mean 34" is the floor if that's the give back depth. Your cap would be around 60".
> 
> 70 acres of pavement to deice = +\- 35 tons, not 85 yards
> 
> ...


Here


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Luther said:


> Zero snow and ice management experience and you think you can pull this off?


Just think if non of his manpower have experience either, that'll be one big cluster "F"

Hopefully this is better image Jim


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

It is, thank you.

Who knows. Maybe just outside NYC they can get this kind of pricing. Kind of doubtful he can pull it off.


----------



## Taxbully (Aug 4, 2018)

# 1; VERY IMPORTANT you need to find out who is currently plowing or was plowing the site. and why they are not continuing LACK OF PAYMENT? or are they really just confirming current pricing --trying keep the current guy competitive? You really need to talk to him/her directly. You may be wasting your time bidding . As they have no intention of changing contractors.

2, try to hire a project manager, with at Least 10 years Snow plowing management experience in a similar type site layout. to help you created a realistic bid. There should be any "refund of amounts" bill by total inches plowed to date, payable at least monthly, which will still be 60 days or auto advance draw of a percentage of expected bi-weekly or

3, Sublet as much as you can, DO NOT BUY a lot of equipment. especially the heavy equipment, let them tell you what they can do. AND you avoid payroll taxes, Always get copies of their Work Comp and Federal ID for 1099-misc filing, Get All agreements in writing and signed. Include when they can expect payment weekly, monthly or when you get paid? unless you have the cashflow,

4, Get an accountant to run payroll and 1099's and monthly Profit and loss.

5, For Large lot areas the Dirt Monkey has great reviews , check out this 16 foot pull plow. back blade, new innovation here in Michigan, here is a great review(



)

6, part of your contract should require parked cars be moved for clear plowing and you are not responsible for areas under cars that are not moved.


----------



## Taxbully (Aug 4, 2018)

I snow plowed commecially for over 30 years, still hold a contractors license and I'm an tax accountant and small business consultan in Michigan. When looking for an accountant, make sure they are licensed,CPA(licensed by the state they practice in), EA(Enrolled Agent is federally licensed) specialize in small businesses, preferrably does work for multiple Contractor clients. Check their reviews. I'm currently looking to buy a new Snow V-Plow for my 2016 F-350 FX4 Lariat. Taxbully NBA, EA MHA


----------



## Taxbully (Aug 4, 2018)

Dirt Monkey does not sell pull plows, he does commercial snow plowing. and reviews products he uses.


----------



## Taxbully (Aug 4, 2018)

Revised statement above----


Taxbully said:


> # 1; VERY IMPORTANT you need to find out who is currently plowing or was plowing the site. and why they are not continuing --is it LACK OF PAYMENT? or are they really just confirming current pricing --trying keep the current guy competitive? You really need to talk to him/her directly. You may be wasting your time bidding . As they have no intention of changing contractors.
> 
> 2, try to hire a project manager, with at Least 10 years Snow plowing management and experience in a similar type site layout. to help you created a realistic bid. There should NOT be any "refund of amounts" bill by total inches plowed to date, payable at least monthly, which will still be 60 days or auto advance draw of a percentage of expected bi-weekly or
> 
> ...


----------



## Taxbully (Aug 4, 2018)

Sorry about the long reply, I hope It was not too confusing.


----------



## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

Littlesnow said:


> Ok so this is going to sound laughable, but a connection of mine I know offered me the opportunity to bid on an extremely large complex. My normal line of work is building and development so I've never done snow removal. I have the man power to get the job done, however I don't have the equipment. Please, if you have any advice or possible guesstimations it would be greatly appreciated.
> Location Info:
> I am located in lower NY just outside of NYC. The location is compromised of predominately office buildings which are often open 24/7, but also has some loading docks. There are 16 office buildings. The entirety of the complex is roughly 70 acres.
> From what I see I'm estimating I'll need:
> ...


I guess the phrase start small can be thrown out the window


----------



## Taxbully (Aug 4, 2018)

1. measure the roads length x width with out parking spaces
2. measure Parking spaces total number,
3. blocks of Parking spaces. how many blocks? 
4. area of each without the un-plowable green space jutting out.? width-X-depth sq ft of each area number of each block size?
are most a consistent size? how many of each.
Can you straight plow? _____numbe and _________total sq ft
or must they be back dragged? _________ number and _________total sq ft
5. Sidewalks linior ft by each width. 
4' x ______Linear=_______sq ftr
5'x ______Linear=_______sq ftr
6' x ______Linear=_______sq ftr
8' x ______Linear=_______sq ftr
etc
-
-


----------



## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)




----------



## Taxbully (Aug 4, 2018)

*Need the following info to calculate estimated lot clearing time
1. measure the roads length x width without parking spaces
2. measure Parking spaces total number_________,
3. blocks of Parking spaces. how many blocks?______ 
4. area of each block without the un-plowable green space jutting out.
----- width-X-depth sq ft of each block area Back Drag= Y/N
------ number of each block of similar size? Need for blade size
a SQ FT block size_______ numbers block size?_______ = total SQ FT_________BD__
b SQ FT block size ________numbers block size?_______ = total SQ FT_________BD__
c SQ FT block size ________numbers block size?_______ = total SQ FT_________BD__
d SQ FT block size ________numbers block size?_______ = total SQ FT_________BD__
e SQ FT block size ________numbers block size?_______ = total SQ FT_________BD__
f SQ FT block size ________numbers block size?_______ = total SQ FT_________BD__
are most of consistent size? how many of each.
5. Sidewalks linear ft by each width. To determine Equipment needed
-----4' x ______Linear _=_______sq ftr
----5' x ______Linear _=_______sq ftr
-----6' x ______Linear _=_______sq ftr
-----8' x ______Linear _=_______sq ftr
How far is snow to be moved if needed? ________
How far is snow to be hauled if needed? ________
Any current dump trucks or loaders to move snow? _____capacity in yards each______*


----------



## Taxbully (Aug 4, 2018)

Taxbully said:


> 1. measure the roads length x width with out parking spaces
> 2. measure Parking spaces total number,
> 3. blocks of Parking spaces. how many blocks?
> 4. area of each without the un-plowable green space jutting out.? width-X-depth sq ft of each area number of each block size?
> ...


HGit send before finished, completed form now psted


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Go for it....Just do us all a favor and keep us posted on how you do....I always enjoy the Ramair story’s...


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Taxbully said:


> Dirt Monkey does not sell pull plows, he does commercial snow plowing. and reviews products he uses.


Backblade has been out for a very long time...Not a new innovation...Had two trucks outfitted in the mid 80s


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

Why do I feel a sense of deja vu every time I see a thread from a new user stating "need help bidding"?

Good thing he threw in "liquid calcium or bagged?" That's like a two-for-one thread special


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Taxbully said:


> I snow plowed commecially for over 30 years, still hold a contractors license and I'm an tax accountant and small business consultan in Michigan. When looking for an accountant, make sure they are licensed,CPA(licensed by the state they practice in), EA(Enrolled Agent is federally licensed) specialize in small businesses, preferrably does work for multiple Contractor clients. Check their reviews. I'm currently looking to buy a new Snow V-Plow for my 2016 F-350 FX4 Lariat. Taxbully NBA, EA MHA


Michigan is a big place, anywhere specific?


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Littlesnow said:


> Ok so this is going to sound laughable, but a connection of mine I know offered me the opportunity to bid on an extremely large complex. My normal line of work is building and development so I've never done snow removal. I have the man power to get the job done, however I don't have the equipment. Please, if you have any advice or possible guesstimations it would be greatly appreciated.
> Location Info:
> I am located in lower NY just outside of NYC. The location is compromised of predominately office buildings which are often open 24/7, but also has some loading docks. There are 16 office buildings. The entirety of the complex is roughly 70 acres.
> From what I see I'm estimating I'll need:
> ...


In order to give any sort of advice on this we really need to see a google earth view or a find lot size view. We need to see where or how far the snow needs to be moved, how many obstacles are in the way and so on. Personally I think you have way too much equipment and you would be done in less than an hour. Plus the price is probably 3 to 4 times too high.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

https://www.findlotsize.com/?place=655+NY+318+Waterloo,+NY+&submit=Go&r=e This property is in western NY, I'm sure down by the NYC pricing is a little higher. This is not 70 acres the whole property is 48 acres can't remember plow able area size. You can figure it out if you want and get a comparison maybe.

The plow able area is $220K and the sidewalks are $46K, We did it with a dresser 530 and 2 leased hoes they were a cheap lease, one pickup with spreader and maybe help with curb line. Sidewalks were subbed out and they used something similar to a snowrater.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Let’s say you somehow win this bid....Do you have the werewithall to secure the manpower,equipment and deicing material to properly service this account....Let’s talk about something I’m sure has not crossed your mind...Do you have enough cash on hand to carry this account for 60-120 days??...You need money to pay for Fuel,Labor,Salt and everything else until this account starts paying


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Since the OP has not returned. I'm thinking, well, you no.


----------



## Defcon 5 (Mar 20, 2014)

Randall Ave said:


> Since the OP has not returned. I'm thinking, well, you no.


Maybe he is Bizzie


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Defcon 5 said:


> Maybe he is Bizzie


I read somewhere that it's a holiday weekend. But I gotta get back to work.


----------



## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Randall Ave said:


> I read somewhere that it's a holiday weekend. But I gotta get back to work.


Holiday? What's that? Never heard of it.

OP, no, just no....


----------

