# backoe loader



## palmador (Jan 27, 2008)

hi guys 
I'm looking to buy a backhoe loader i was gonna make a move on a 2006 310sg with a 8' 14' extendibles blade a lot of operators told me that a backhoe is not the best machine to push snow now my question is if a backhoe loader with even size tires like a jcb 4cx or an older model 214s is has effective has a loader. If some one can help me before I go and buy something thats no good for me.


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## dirt digger (Feb 27, 2005)

are you just using it to push snow? or are you going to use it in the summer?

the problem with Cat and Deere backhoes is the hoe on the back is so heavy that all you seem to do is bounce the front tires off the ground. Case has the best weight distribution, well in all actuality Case has the best backhoe out there. JCB is a fair machine, but depending on what you will use it for in the summer i do not feel that JCB is a mass digging backhoe like your Cats Deeres and Cases. I don't plow snow with our backhoe so i can't tell you anything about that, but i will say that our Case can push some extremely large dirt piles all around, but then again you get better traction in dirt then you do on icy pavement.


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## accipiter12 (Jan 24, 2003)

dirt digger;499576 said:


> are you just using it to push snow? or are you going to use it in the summer?
> 
> the problem with Cat and Deere backhoes is the hoe on the back is so heavy that all you seem to do is bounce the front tires off the ground. Case has the best weight distribution, well in all actuality Case has the best backhoe out there. JCB is a fair machine, but depending on what you will use it for in the summer i do not feel that JCB is a mass digging backhoe like your Cats Deeres and Cases. I don't plow snow with our backhoe so i can't tell you anything about that, but i will say that our Case can push some extremely large dirt piles all around, but then again you get better traction in dirt then you do on icy pavement.


Agreed.

Blake
WA


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## palmador (Jan 27, 2008)

*backhoe loader*

yes i use the machine more in the summer then winter but the jcb I'm talking about 
as 4 tires the same size with 4 wheel steer


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## Buster F (Jun 12, 2006)

I have put several hundred hours(including quite a bit of snow work) on a Komatsu WA150 that has the 4 equal sized tires that you are talking about. As far as loader operation is concerned the front tire bouncing that is usually associated with rubber tired backhoes is a non issue - the machine is an absolute bear when it comes to pushing and traction. Aside from having a rather small bucket and not so great turning radius(even in 4 wheel steer mode) it compares well to a small loader. I will also say that the added weight and horsepower make the machine the best digging backhoe i've ever operated, aside from the limited swing area it will dig bucket for bucket with a comparable sized excavator and has a reach advatage over most excavators in its bucket size class. Now for the negatives. This machine with the 4 equal sized tires is by far the worst driving/riding peice of equipment i have ever run over the road - be sure to wear a kidney belt if you plan on running it over the road. Anothr thing to keep in mind is that the front tires on a backhoe take a hell of a beating when pushing or carring a bucket full of material around the jobsite and having larger tires to replace due to a slice can become very pricey. I hope this helps you a bit, Roy


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## palmador (Jan 27, 2008)

thanks a lot for your info 
who els can guide me better than some one with experience on this machine 4wheel drive 4 wheel steer . so whats better for me a regular backhoe or a 4 wheel steer backhoe i really appreciate your 
response chris


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## dirt digger (Feb 27, 2005)

4 wheel steer should be a non-issue because you have individual brakes on regular backhoes. you can just brake one tire or the other and turn a very tight radius circle. you will steer with your brakes most of the time anyway, because chances are when you put the bucket down it transfers your weight off the front tires, making them useless to steer on slick pavement


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

I will agree with digger on one thing. Having two breaks will make your turning verry tight.

The 4x4x4 idea isn't all its cracked up to be. I used to work for JCB. I personally think that normal 4x4 on a backhoe is plenty. 

I have experienced loader power problems when a JCB 214 that was fitted with JCB 217 tires. With the larger tires from the larger machine, it robbed all the power. You don't seem to have these problems with a normal machine. 

Now. In my opinion Case backhoes suck. I like Cats or Deeres, But New Hollands are nice and so are JCB's. But then again, I am not partcial, Unless its a Case.

If I were you. I would have one of your operators (If you have any) Help you make this decission.

Peterbilt


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

Well over the past two years we've pushed snow or are currently pushing with a Case 580, and JD 310 and a JCB 212. I think all machines pushed great 
The 310 had a 14' box witch may have been a little big but you only noticed it on the 5-6" heavy snows and could only take 10' paths. But on the 2-3" that thing was a plowing machine.
The Case was just as good with a 12' box and was also a plowing machine.
The JCB is a little under powered for what we use it with. It probably should only have a 10' box on it and we are running a 12' so its a little under powered. The nice thing about the JCB is the back hoe can offset to the side so you have FULL view behind you which helps out a ton. 
Like others have said drive some and see. As long as you have good dealer support most of it is personnel preference.


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## xc23 (Jan 29, 2007)

*backhoe for plowing*

I have owned and operated backhoes for plowing and digging for a few years now , Here is my 2 cents. I have pushed w/ a 2 wheel drive 555 ford did the job still use it for stacking and some digging . Recently picked up a 4x4 555d 1994 ford ,12 avalanche box pusher Enclosed heated cab like my other. This machine is great .It has separate breaks for each rear wheel = turns on a dime handles the 12' pusher excellent . As for the ride quality and front tire durability my fronts have been foam filled the machine does not bounce at all at highway speed and you can not get a flat, plus it adds a little extra weight in the front for traction. the weight distribution seems very good, But I have only operated fords and can't compare . It is an extend a hoe so it is heavier than a standered hoe in the rear. The only complaint is when you are stacking snow piles and you drive up the pile the hoe will hit the ground before the machine runs out of traction. Also if you purchase the large tire JCB you may need a heavier trailer to transport it . M y 555d weighs 15500 . Hope this helps.


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## palmador (Jan 27, 2008)

*opinion or experience*



dirt digger;500090 said:


> 4 wheel steer should be a non-issue because you have individual brakes on regular backhoes. you can just brake one tire or the other and turn a very tight radius circle. you will steer with your brakes most of the time anyway, because chances are when you put the bucket down it transfers your weight off the front tires, making them useless to steer on slick pavement


is this your opinion or experience


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## palmador (Jan 27, 2008)

*what do you think*

so do you think with a 310 sg or a 214 jcb with a 8' 14' adjustable blade are smart investments or 
better with a machine with 4 wheel steer like a 4cx or a 214s.

i appreciate your opinion


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

Stupid question here. but Palmador have you ever been around a tractor backhoe?

The more questions you ask, the more I think you have no experience on the subject matter. 

But if you need info you are in the right place.

peterbilt


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## dirt digger (Feb 27, 2005)

i have never run a 4 wheel steer backhoe...and to tell you i am a "full time" backhoe operator is a lie...however i am a student in college right now and work for an excavating company when i am home for summer/winter breaks and i run a Case 580 Super M atleast 35 hours per week when i am working...so i guess when i am working i am a full time operator. 

Anyway i have pushed a lot of dirt and when i am pushing i RARELY used the steering wheel, unless i am running into a stone pile where the bucket is just resting on the ground. Your steering wheel is useless with front tire steer as soon as you put a load in the bucket because it is far too much weight for the tires to get traction...so therefore i dont see how larger front tires would aid you any...the only reason i could see 4 wheel steer may work is for the rear axle steering, but even still i can lock my back tire and do almost a complete 360 by pivoting on the locked tire


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## palmador (Jan 27, 2008)

*stupid answers*



Peterbilt;501102 said:


> Stupid question here. but Palmador have you ever been around a tractor backhoe?
> 
> The more questions you ask, the more I think you have no experience on the subject matter.
> 
> ...


i don't have any experience on a backhoe .But Im still making an over 100 000$investment and its not the first machine i buy i know witch backhoe is good for me in the summer 
but not sure for the winter thats why I'm asking I need answers from people who now what
there talking about !!! but thanks for trying peterbilt


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## Buster F (Jun 12, 2006)

In my opinion the 4 wheel steer machine will make a better snow machine because of the added weight and traction gains over a conventional backhoe. A large 4x4x4 bachoe with a quick coupler can easily be used in a loader type situation with the addition of a 3 - 3.5 yd bucket or hooked to a 14' pusher or a 10'-12' power angle blade or used with the standard 1-1.25 yd bucket although i wouldn't recomend it for snow work(the large chunks of ice have a tendancy to come over the back of the bucket and onto the hood). I think the point that most of the guys and myself are trying to make is that in order to gain somthing you have to give somthing up ie- a 4x4x4 backoe may be better in the snow but will ride over the road like a D8 and require more expensive maintenance. Either way any machine will work for you if you set it up right and become adept a running it. Good luck, Roy


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## toyman (Dec 4, 2007)

I have a 580 L Case, the machine is awesome in the snow. A good 4X4 Backhoe will do a more versital job IMO. Can be turned just as tight, if not tighter, than the 4 wheel steer you are considering. 

bottom line here is pick out a backhoe that you would buy, then pick out a 4 wheel steer that you would buy and drive them both. See which one you like better. 

I'm only running a 10' box on my backhoe, but that is for a different reason. It could easily handle a 12' box and maybe a 14'. 

Toyman


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

I have run only Deere hoes the last 25 years from the 34 years I've been in the excavating biz.There is a very good reason for this--they simply are the very best out there.My 410G will outdig any other hoe in it's class,bar none.Now,let's talk snow.There is really no practical reason you need an all wheel steer rig.It will be heavier,clumsier, and you will not have pivot steering like you will with just conventional front wheel steer.I can pivot in the machine's own lenghth and if I wanted to on slippery stuff,I could throw away that round spoked thing.Get the Deere,you'won't be sorry.If it doesn't rattle like a cat,it must be a case of bad judgement,but nothing runs like a deere.


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## dirt digger (Feb 27, 2005)

if you have only ever run Deere then how do you know it can out preform cat and case?


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

i have a buddy who has the "best" bobcat, boat, truck, blade, grapple bucket,trailer


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## Buster F (Jun 12, 2006)

Keep in mind Palmador that no matter what it says on the side of the machine it still gets the same rate. I'm a union operator in the Boston area and people pay me big bucks to make their equipment perform. I've run pretty much every brand of backhoe made and have found that at the end of the day the work got done no matter what brand of machine it was. While i think its sweet that some people have loyalty to a particular brand the truth is that they all get paid the same and so will you. Good luck, Roy


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## palmador (Jan 27, 2008)

*your the man*



Jay brown;502143 said:


> i have a buddy who has the "best" bobcat, boat, truck, blade, grapple bucket,trailer


your the man jay brown


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## palmador (Jan 27, 2008)

*made a deal*

well guys tanks for your help finally made my mind up and i purchased a brand new JCB
today i went to WAJAX and purchased a brand new JCB 3CX 14' 2007 equipped with a/c
air seat , radio cd , rotary flasher , quick attache front , 3rd valve , set of forks , edf rear
expandable backhoe and last but not least a 8' 14' expendable EDF snow blade for a grand 
total of 113000 $ delivery date for end march . So tanks a lot for your help specially
Buster F
superiorL&L
XC 23
Dirt Digger


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## dirt digger (Feb 27, 2005)

congrats...now all you have to do is post some pictures


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## murray83 (Dec 3, 2005)

113 from Wajax with a blade/pusher is a steal for that machine,our 07 214S was around 130 with just the bucket.

Good luck with the machine and Wajax will treat you well if they are like here,by the way did you get it with the pilot controls built into the seat or the standard old school 2 wobble stick controls?


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

dirt digger;502118 said:


> if you have only ever run Deere then how do you know it can out preform cat and case?


Very simple dirt digger---Whenever I can,I jump on the others---friends,auctions,dealers lots,etc.Guys that see what Deere hoes are capable of will also mention something once in a while.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Jay brown;502143 said:


> i have a buddy who has the "best" bobcat, boat, truck, blade, grapple bucket,trailer


Yeah,I have a buddy like that too--maybe it's the same guy.No,can't be,he claims his woman is the ''best'' also.


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