# If I gave you a 2010 F450 Chassis Cab........



## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

You'd be using if for landscaping, plowing & salting. How would you configure it? And you only have 40K to spend......

Here are some options:


Dump Box
Dump Box w/Side dump option
Flat Bed
How Long of Box
Diesel
Gas
Reg, X Cab or CC
Tool box behind cab
Cabinet boxes under dump/flat bed
Cab Marker Lights
Add what ever else you think would be useful, and keep in mind, you only have a 40K budget.


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## thesnowman269 (Nov 7, 2009)

Isnt a 2010 F-450 chassis somewhere around 40k? not to much to spend on Outfitting it it is.


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## ajslands (Sep 3, 2009)

thesnowman269;947674 said:


> Isnt a 2010 F-450 chassis somewhere around 40k? not to much to spend on Outfitting it it is.


i think he gives you the truck chasis, and you get to choose what you want on it, iam pretty sure the 450s cost well over 40 grand


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## blk90s13 (Sep 1, 2005)

Dump Box w/Side dump option
How Long of Box 10ft
Diesel
X Cab
Tool box behind cab
Cabinet boxes under dump bed
Cab Marker Lights

blk ext and make it snappy please


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## stonewellmark (Feb 1, 2009)

Diesel/Standard trans.
I-Box behind cab w/ 1 door per side ( they hold jumping jack tampers great )
Dump body (8-9ft) w/ fold down sides or Dump rack body, both are fine by me.
9ft+ V-Plow :stainless fisher only
V-box sander :gas or hydraulic stainless only


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## bguzz (Jan 29, 2009)

I'd make it an electric plow vehicle...w/lotsa batteries!


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## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

thesnowman269;947674 said:


> Isnt a 2010 F-450 chassis somewhere around 40k? not to much to spend on Outfitting it it is.


Yep...ur right. When I was price checking I was looking at F350's, those start around low 30's.

Ok, so lets say you have around 40K for a chassis cab and a 10K budget to upfit it. What's it gonna be?


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## badabing1512 (Aug 28, 2008)

Id trade it in and buy a 4500 kodiak


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

Dont buy the V10. I have a 2008 F450 4x4 with the V10 gas motor, auto, extra cab,9ft dump bed. what a disappointment. Power not that great and fuel milage really bad, 6.5mpg. Dont get me wrong, truck drives and handles great. Just wish I had bought the diesel.
You may have to revise your cost for truck. Mine was $35,000 for truck and $5,000 for bed. And the Blizzard 8611 was $6500.


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## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

Just had one spec'd out at the local ford dealer.


2011 F450 4x4 Super Cab XLT Plow Prep w/6.7L diesel = $46,500
10' Dump bed w/folding sides & 3 way gate = $7,995
Pull Plate = $600
TOTAL = $55,095 + tax,lic, doc = $58,XXX

This is commercial fleet pricing. No incentives as of yet. Add a plow and a under tailgate spreader for another 10-12K and now your up to $68-$70K!!!!!!!!:crying::crying::crying:


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm a die hard Ford Fan. I would steer clear of the 2011 6.7L Diesel I'm forecasting a crash and burn never before seen by an engine. They have nested the turbo in the valley between the valve covers. Horrible idea Turbos run around 1200 degrees and now all of that heat is going to be in a confined area. Intercooled or not all that heat will be dissipated into the block which from what I have read is no longer cast iron either.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

millsaps118;955781 said:


> Just had one spec'd out at the local ford dealer.
> 
> 
> 2011 F450 4x4 Super Cab XLT Plow Prep w/6.7L diesel = $46,500
> ...


May be a dumb question, but what's a 3 way gate. Does it have an ashpalt chute?


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## Tkobobcat (Jan 8, 2010)

badabing1512;948457 said:


> Id trade it in and buy a 4500 kodiak


X 2 sell it and get something with a proven engine


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## Mr Bigblock (Dec 9, 2008)

Trade it in for a duramax


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## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

cda817;956059 said:


> I'm a die hard Ford Fan. I would steer clear of the 2011 6.7L Diesel I'm forecasting a crash and burn never before seen by an engine. They have nested the turbo in the valley between the valve covers. Horrible idea Turbos run around 1200 degrees and now all of that heat is going to be in a confined area. Intercooled or not all that heat will be dissipated into the block which from what I have read is no longer cast iron either.


I was thinking the same thing and I even brought it up to the sales rep. Of course he wants to make a sale and he told me EVERYTHING I wanted to hear.

To me, a 60K investment....a brand new, redesigned diesel engine.... and me being the guinea pig doesn't sit well. If I'm dropping that kind of coin it better run flawlessly.



jomama45;956097 said:


> May be a dumb question, but what's a 3 way gate. Does it have an ashpalt chute?


A 3-way tailgate opens 1) From the Top down like a normal pickup truck gate 2) From the bottom up like a Big dump truck 3) the whole gate will pivot to one side like most dump trailers.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

trade it in for a chevy 2500hd 4 door 6 foot box with a d-max and 6 speed trans! ford suck and they are going to be going in the crapper soon. they havent built a quilty truck scence 2000!


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

millsaps118;956149 said:


> A 3-way tailgate opens 1) From the Top down like a normal pickup truck gate 2) From the bottom up like a Big dump truck 3) the whole gate will pivot to one side like most dump trailers.


OK, maybe one more dumb question, but why would you want the gate to open from the side. like #3? IMO, it just makes the whole gate prone to failure quicker with little to no advantage, unless I'm missing something?



the new boss 92;956150 said:


> trade it in for a chevy 2500hd 4 door 6 foot box with a d-max and 6 speed trans! ford suck and they are going to be going in the crapper soon. they havent built a quilty truck scence 2000!


Says the kid with a 92 1/2 ton!


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## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

jomama45;956156 said:


> OK, maybe one more dumb question, but why would you want the gate to open from the side. like #3? IMO, it just makes the whole gate prone to failure quicker with little to no advantage, unless I'm missing something?
> 
> Not really a dumb question at all, and I too would like to know why you would need it to pivot. I think most of these gates just come standard with this option.
> 
> Says the kid with a 92 1/2 ton!


X2 but I'll keep my comments to myself............


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

You could have a F350 4x4 Dump w/5.4L V8 and 10' box with many bells and whistles, as well as plow and V-box spreader for 50K. You don't need a diesel, and you don't want to put an under tailgate spreader on your new truck, only to see it rust out the box in 3-4yrs.


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## Matt400 (Dec 23, 2009)

Whats wrong with a Dodge 5500?


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

WIPensFan;956241 said:


> You could have a F350 4x4 Dump w/5.4L V8 and 10' box with many bells and whistles, as well as plow and V-box spreader for 50K. You don't need a diesel, and you don't want to put an under tailgate spreader on your new truck, only to see it rust out the box in 3-4yrs.


Ya, that would be awesome. 

If I had 40k to upfit a F450.

I'd start with a 6.4/auto. Ext Cab 4x4 chassis.

For a bed, I'd do one of those hook setups with multiple beds.
- fully stocked 10' service body (with generator, compressor, crane,etc)
-aluminum 12' flatbed with under body boxes
-aluminum 8' flatbed with under body boxes and a gooseneck
-8ft dump bed

Plow out front would be a 10' boss V with wings for those super light and fluffy snows.
16ft Ebling out back

DPF delete, 4" turbo back straight pipe with spartan tuning.

If I had 10k to upfit an F450. I don't think I could do it and be happy with the way it came out.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark13;956255 said:


> Ya, that would be awesome.
> 
> If I had 40k to upfit a F450.
> 
> ...


I think I came up with a real world solution, also answered the question. Your in fantasy land MarkAge13.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

jomama45;956156 said:


> OK, maybe one more dumb question, but why would you want the gate to open from the side. like #3? IMO, it just makes the whole gate prone to failure quicker with little to no advantage, unless I'm missing something?
> 
> Says the kid with a 92 1/2 ton!


i say that because yes i have been looking into a 6.0, but have found they are a hit or miss. the 6.4 are very powerfull, but have to lift the cab to do repairs. the 7.3 was a good all around motor and got great mpg's. chevy has had there 6.6 out for a while with minimal problems and i like the nbs, classic body style, and the 08 09 body style. dont get me wrong i would buy a ford if it was the right one(obs power stroke). and for the reason i have a half ton is because i didnt plan on plowing when i got it. it is also rust free and probley one of the cleanest 92's with 316000 on the road that came from down south. i will agree though ford had one of the niecest trucks, but there were to many problems with the 6.0, or i should say a hit or miss. gm has had a great truck for a while! if i knew i would have been plowing i would have bought a 3500 srw with a 5.7 vortec.


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## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

but if i had to build one and had the work for it, it would have 4x4 and a 12 foot aluminum flat bed with a snow ex 8500. and on the frount would be a boss 9'2 vxt with wings for wide oped lots. and it it had a warrentee then of course the 6.4 with a manuel trans!


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## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

millsaps118;947646 said:


> You'd be using if for landscaping, plowing & salting. How would you configure it? And you only have 40K to spend......
> 
> Here are some options:
> 
> ...


What type of plowing will you be doing.....Reg cab....dumping stake flatbed....141"wb....8-9' body....Gas.....Big @ss towing mirrors.....Boxes under body.....4x2.....9' straight blade

Best believe it will work amazing....Been there, allready done it, the best plow rig I've plowed with


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

Dump Box w/Side dump option 
8' Box 
Diesel 
X Cab 
Cabinet boxes under dump/flat bed 
Cab Marker Lights 
Stainless 9'6" Fisher VPlow with handheld remote.
Backup camera tied into onboard NAV/Stereo. Camera is in a slightly recessed housing just above the hitch so I cna see the trailer hitch and back right into it without having to get out and check.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

the new boss 92;956150 said:


> trade it in for a chevy 2500hd 4 door 6 foot box with a d-max and 6 speed trans! ford suck and they are going to be going in the crapper soon. they havent built a quilty truck scence 2000!





the new boss 92;956592 said:


> i say that because yes i have been looking into a 6.0, but have found they are a hit or miss. the 6.4 are very powerfull, but have to lift the cab to do repairs. the 7.3 was a good all around motor and got great mpg's. chevy has had there 6.6 out for a while with minimal problems and i like the nbs, classic body style, and the 08 09 body style. dont get me wrong i would buy a ford if it was the right one(obs power stroke). and for the reason i have a half ton is because i didnt plan on plowing when i got it. it is also rust free and probley one of the cleanest 92's with 316000 on the road that came from down south. i will agree though ford had one of the niecest trucks, but there were to many problems with the 6.0, or i should say a hit or miss. gm has had a great truck for a while! if i knew i would have been plowing i would have bought a 3500 srw with a 5.7 vortec.


First, you posted that he should buy a completely different truck configuration than what HE REALLY needs. Second, the 6.0, 6.4, & 7.3 are non-issues here, unless they are still an option in 2010? Third, the fact that YOU like the Chevy body style shouldn't be a deciding factor for someonelse's important business decision. BTW, I have a D-Max, but i'd be crazy to tell someone I don't know to buy one instead of what they have their mind set on. As far as I know, he's had great luck with Ford trucks & diesels, so why change?

PS, I'm not a Ford fan, but I have enough business sense to realize that Ford won't be going into the "crapper" anytime soon.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Let's try and answer the question here people. This isn't, "What's your dream truck". He gave parameters for upfitting a $40,000 chassis cab with $10,000. At least give something close and doable.


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

WIPensFan;956241 said:


> You could have a F350 4x4 Dump w/5.4L V8 and 10' box with many bells and whistles, as well as plow and V-box spreader for 50K. You don't need a diesel, and you don't want to put an under tailgate spreader on your new truck, only to see it rust out the box in 3-4yrs.


The F350 is not even close to being the same as a F450. Especially with a 5.4 gas engine.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Mark Witcher;957702 said:


> The F350 is not even close to being the same as a F450. Especially with a 5.4 gas engine.


Really? Why don't you explain how different it really is and how you couldn't accomplish the same basic tasks with it for 5-10K less dollars.


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## DODGEing (Jan 12, 2009)

the new boss 92;956150 said:


> trade it in for a chevy 2500hd 4 door 6 foot box with a d-max and 6 speed trans! ford suck and they are going to be going in the crapper soon. they havent built a quilty truck scence 2000!


And why might I ask did you randomly pick the the year 2000. The 7.3 power stroke is by no means junk and there were no significant changes in body/motor for the 2000 model year in the 3/4 1 ton trucks... atleast that i know of but i could be wrong. Chevy/GMC didnt even start making a comparable diesel until the Dmax and then it took 2 years for them to get the allison up to par, 03 was ok but 04 1/2 to 05 was the best Dmax Alli from what I hear but still to this date GM has a weaker front end (just ask plow installers) just my 2 cents, but we get it your a Chevy guy !


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

The 350 Dump with the 5.4L is extremely underpowered for the capabilities of the truck it will be working to the limits of the engine all the time and will significantly decrease the life of the truck and increase maintenance costs. I have the 5.4 in my 350 pickup and with a 10,000lb trailer I am running at 3-3.5K rpms at 55-60mph. In my dump w/6.0L Diesel I am running 2-2.5K rpms at 65mph.

If I had to do it I would do this:

2010 F-450 w/6.4L Diesel
9' Fisher X-blade (V or Straight depending on what you are plowing)
11' Aluminum Flatbed (Truckcraft makes an Aluminum Mason Dump now as well)
http://www.truckcraft.com/productDetail.asp?id=22&cID=

2.5cy Fisher Polycaster

You could get this setup for about 14-15k upfit cost with a little shopping around and would be well worth the extra money as nothing would rust or need replacing for the next 10-15 years or more.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

The only disadvantage of the 5.4L would be towing a heavy load, and I'm not talking mowers. If your not doing this every day it should be fine. The diesel is close to $8,000 more initially and the price of diesel fuel is higher, at least around here. Not only that but the 5.4L will save gas money over the V10. If money were no object then maybe you get whatever you want, but I thought the OP was looking for a truck that he could use for landscaping, plowing, salting, and all within a certain budget.

cda817 - How much would your truck idea cost? BTW I looked at the aluminum beds and they look real nice, price?


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

You can find the 450 chassis cab w/diesel for 46,000 before rebates, incentives, and haggling. I'm sure you could beat them down around 40k.

F450 6.4L diesel- 40,000
9' Fisher X-blade- 5,400
2.5cy Fisher Polycster- 5,100
Truckcraft Mason Dump- 7,800

Total: $58,300 Those prices are all installed

If you bought it all from the same dealer I bet you could get some better rates on the upfit. My next truck is going to be this in a 550 with a 10ft Fisher Municipal series plow.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

cda817;958360 said:


> You can find the 450 chassis cab w/diesel for 46,000 before rebates, incentives, and haggling. I'm sure you could beat them down around 40k.
> 
> F450 6.4L diesel- 40,000
> 9' Fisher X-blade- 5,400
> ...


I'm sure depending on the dealer you could negotiate some. Don't forget taxes though! Now your up over $60,000. I'd love to have the truck you spec'd out, but most guy's really don't need the 450 and diesel as their first dump. Only the OP knows what he needs, we're all just guessing.


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## Dissociative (Feb 28, 2007)

jomama45;956687 said:


> PS, I'm not a Ford fan, but I have enough business sense to realize that Ford won't be going into the "crapper" anytime soon.


only truck builder not to take a dime of my tax money.....i will never EVER buy a BAILED OUT gm POS......or DODGE.....

AMEN TO FORD FOR NOT SCREWING AMERICAN TAXPAYERS


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

The upfit prices are with taxes the truck was not so yeah you are correct you would be around 60K. I just think the 450 with the 5.4L is really underpowered, you can get away with it in a 350. I mean if you go easy and are not working it around the trucks capabilities then you could get away with it, but in that case do you really need a 450 if you aren't towing 10K+ or hauling 6K+ on a regular basis? The diesel is definitely overkill in these trucks but I'd rather be overpowered than underpowered. 

I don't know who said it but towing "Just Mowers" does add up in weight, my rig with trailer, two walkbehinds, ZTR, trimmers, blowers, fuel, tools is right around the GVWR of 7K. Throw a larger skid steer on an equipment trailer and you are around 8-9K lbs. Throw a couple yards of topsoil in the bed and a trailer w/skid and you are loaded up pretty good and wishing you had the diesel, Especially if you have to drive more than around the block.


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## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

cda817;958401 said:


> The upfit prices are with taxes the truck was not so yeah you are correct you would be around 60K. I just think the 450 with the 5.4L is really underpowered, you can get away with it in a 350. I mean if you go easy and are not working it around the trucks capabilities then you could get away with it, but in that case do you really need a 450 if you aren't towing 10K+ or hauling 6K+ on a regular basis? The diesel is definitely overkill in these trucks but I'd rather be overpowered than underpowered.
> 
> I don't know who said it but towing "Just Mowers" does add up in weight, my rig with trailer, two walkbehinds, ZTR, trimmers, blowers, fuel, tools is right around the GVWR of 7K. Throw a larger skid steer on an equipment trailer and you are around 8-9K lbs. Throw a couple yards of topsoil in the bed and a trailer w/skid and you are loaded up pretty good and wishing you had the diesel, Especially if you have to drive more than around the block.


You cant get a 5.4 in a 450 & you dont need a diesel for lawn mowers....V-10 has more then enough balls for a 10,000 lb load.....He never answered what type of plowing he's going to do either, A 2wd dually will be a plowing monster for parking lots or road plowing, I doubt he would use a 450 for plowing driveways, but if he did it's quite dueable, I used my old 450 2wd for my driveway & a few others


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

You learn something new everyday. I didn't know the 5.4L wasn't available in the 450 I knew it wasn't in the 550. The V-10 has more than enough power to handle a 10lb load. However, they are hard to find and to find a 2010 w/ a diesel is a lot easier. And since they aren't being offered in 2011 there will be no new ones coming out. The only engine offered in the 450 and up is the diesel from what I have seen in the ford literature.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

cda817;958401 said:


> The upfit prices are with taxes the truck was not so yeah you are correct you would be around 60K. I just think the 450 with the 5.4L is really underpowered, you can get away with it in a 350. I mean if you go easy and are not working it around the trucks capabilities then you could get away with it, but in that case do you really need a 450 if you aren't towing 10K+ or hauling 6K+ on a regular basis? The diesel is definitely overkill in these trucks but I'd rather be overpowered than underpowered.
> 
> I don't know who said it but towing "Just Mowers" does add up in weight, my rig with trailer, two walkbehinds, ZTR, trimmers, blowers, fuel, tools is right around the GVWR of 7K. Throw a larger skid steer on an equipment trailer and you are around 8-9K lbs. Throw a couple yards of topsoil in the bed and a trailer w/skid and you are loaded up pretty good and wishing you had the diesel, Especially if you have to drive more than around the block.


In my solution I said F350 with 5.4L. Just to clarify. I love these scenarios because it's a real world question that people in our business face on a regular basis. Plus it's fun to price out trucks and equipment.


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## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

cda817;958422 said:


> You learn something new everyday. I didn't know the 5.4L wasn't available in the 450 I knew it wasn't in the 550. The V-10 has more than enough power to handle a 10lb load. However, they are hard to find and to find a 2010 w/ a diesel is a lot easier. And since they aren't being offered in 2011 there will be no new ones coming out. The only engine offered in the 450 and up is the diesel from what I have seen in the ford literature.


You can get a V-10 in 450's & 550's in 2011.....


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## snow game (Sep 28, 2008)

I would go with a hook body set up. Drop a dumpster on site for a crew to work off the ground, set up sander for hook lift, and keep building with more containers and body's. I saw one that also had a flatbed and the guy had his skid steer on it. most versatile body there is, the choices are endless.


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## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

snow game;958433 said:


> I would go with a hook body set up. Drop a dumpster on site for a crew to work off the ground, set up sander for hook lift, and keep building with more containers and body's. I saw one that also had a flatbed and the guy had his skid steer on it. most versatile body there is, the choices are endless.


I didn't even think of it.....That is without a doubt the best set-up, I wonder what that set-up goes for....A few bucks I'm sure


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

snow game;958433 said:


> I would go with a hook body set up. Drop a dumpster on site for a crew to work off the ground, set up sander for hook lift, and keep building with more containers and body's. I saw one that also had a flatbed and the guy had his skid steer on it. most versatile body there is, the choices are endless.


Cost? Put up some numbers so we know what we can't afford


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

TommyMac;958432 said:


> You can get a V-10 in 450's & 550's in 2011.....


Really I read on the Ford site not that long ago that it was being discontinued? Maybe it was a later model year?


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## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

cda817;958500 said:


> Really I read on the Ford site not that long ago that it was being discontinued? Maybe it was a later model year?


I think you heard they discountinued the V-10 in the 250's & 350 pick ups....In 2011 you canonly get the new 6.2L V8 or the new 6.7L Diesel


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## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

WOW...this thread got crazy So many different opinions and suggestions.

Here's the norm for me as far as work secenarios go:

Primary vehicle Currently: CCSB 2500HD 6.0L

*For Landscaping* - I don't do a lot of hauling for the simple reason of not having a truck to do it with. I leave a lot of $$$ on the table for this service. When I do it's usually black dirt, mulch, 3/4-1" rock, no more then 2yrds at a time because I don't have anything that will haul more then that. If I need more capacity I rent a dump trailer. I probably haul something at least 5-6 times a month. Most of the time it's lawn debris or shredded mulch.

*For Towing* - I pull a 16'x7' & a 18'x8.5 enclosed trailer and an occasional 16' skid trailer. I tow the 16x7 95% of the time with 2 full size ZTR's a 21" and all the necessary equipment. Every once in a while a 773 or T-190.

*For Plowing* - Right now my commercial accounts range from 20Ksqft to 100Ksqft. Some lots are tight with my truck and a couple lots I wish I had a bigger blade with a really heavy rig to make long pushes with. Running a 8-2 V with wings. Would love to run something like a 8611 or a 9-2 V with wings.

*For Salting* - I run a Snoway Optiflo 13cuft swing gate spreader that I modded to a receiver mount. It holds about 800lbs of bulk salt. I will be upgrading to a 1.5 or 2 cuyd V-Box. If I bought a new truck with a dump bed I was considering an undergate spreader but some ppl have mentioned the bed rusting out in 3-4 yrs.

I'm really interested in a F450 (even though I'm a die-hard GM guy, won't even consider a Dodge) because, IMO Ford makes a way better Medium duty truck compared to GM. I also like the fact that it still has the "pick up truck" look without sacrificing GVW. F450 GVW is 19K, combined GVWR is 26K so I don't have to have a special license to drive it. An F350 could still be an option but I really haven't looked into to them. Lately I haven't seen a whole lot guys running F350's (2000 and newer) with dump beds and this may be a sign as to why.

So that's where I'm at. Thanks for all the great replies and debate.


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

TommyMac;958503 said:


> I think you heard they discountinued the V-10 in the 250's & 350 pick ups....In 2011 you canonly get the new 6.2L V8 or the new 6.7L Diesel


Your right I found the article I was reading I took it as it was being completely discontinued. That is good to know that it will still be available as a less expensive option. Thanks!


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## fatheadon1 (Dec 27, 2007)

i drive a 08 550 diesel 4x4 every day for tree work our truck was just under 60k . for your budget id do 2wd v10 make sure to get big gears 430 are the bigest you can get i think. i would also look into the price difference from a 450 to a 550 i dont think its that big i know for my boss when we put the body on the 450 their was not much room left as far as legal payload so the 550 it was. we have 488 gears and when i say it will pull a house it will. as for the 4wd the 3 times we have gotin the truck stuck dumping chips 4x4 did not help and for plowing we never run 4x4 we have a 9 ft western and some big stumps for ballast you have a spreader . as far as body we have what the dealer called a heavy duty Landscapers body with high sides and this thing is tuff as nails also tool boxs on each underside. last mpg its a dump truck most are used around town nothing is gonna do well on fuel ours gets 7mpg truck never runs empty to the jobs it tows chipper 7k or bobcat 9k. one last side note its not ford that has made a bad diesel thank the epa for that and also for sells 3 superdutys to every one dodge or chevy so yes you are gonna hear about alot mote problems with fords. yes i am a for guy. i love dodge for the diesel motor not a fan of the trans, chevy,gmc good diesel great trans but junk from end if you work the trucks for has the best all around in my eyes and most that why 90% of you med duty truck are ford tow trucks.Landscapers,fire,ambulance their is a lot of them out there get run hard so yes they will break!!!


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

millsaps118;958521 said:


> *For Towing* - I pull a 16'x7' & a 18'x8.5 enclosed trailer and an occasional 16' skid trailer. I tow the 16x7 95% of the time with 2 full size ZTR's a 21" and all the necessary equipment. Every once in a while a 773 or T-190.
> 
> [I'm really interested in a F450 (even though I'm a die-hard GM guy, won't even consider a Dodge) because, IMO Ford makes a way better Medium duty truck compared to GM. I also like the fact that it still has the "pick up truck" look without sacrificing GVW. F450 *GVW is 19K, combined GVWR is 26K so I don't have to have a special license to drive it.* An F350 could still be an option but I really haven't looked into to them. Lately I haven't seen a whole lot guys running F350's (2000 and newer) with dump beds and this may be a sign as to why.
> 
> So that's where I'm at. Thanks for all the great replies and debate.


I'd suggest checking into you're state specific laws before purchasing.

Here in WI, those numbers would only allow you to tow a 7K trailer WITHOUT a CDL, regardless to what was or wasn't in the bed of the truck. They take the registered weight of both the truck & trailer added together. In your case, a 19K truck with 12k (assuming) trailer would put you at 31K, over the limit.

Like I said, probably something you need to verify yourself.

Otherwise, your logic to the vehicle makes sense to me.


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## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

Here's another problem with the new 450's & 550's they run 19.5 rubber, right.....No tire manufacturer makes a decent A/T tire, plus there really expensive to replace, although you can get your rears capped....I liked the early-mid 90's F-450's, you could get decent rubber @ an affordable price, like todays 350's now run the same size....Just something to think about


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

jomama45;958551 said:


> I'd suggest checking into you're state specific laws before purchasing.
> 
> Here in WI, those numbers would only allow you to tow a 7K trailer WITHOUT a CDL, regardless to what was or wasn't in the bed of the truck. They take the registered weight of both the truck & trailer added together. In your case, a 19K truck with 12k (assuming) trailer would put you at 31K, over the limit.
> 
> ...


You are correct it doesn't matter the state, that is federal law, once you cross that 26,000gvwr or gcvwr you are required to have a CDL.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

cda817;958310 said:


> I have the 5.4 in my 350 pickup and with a 10,000lb trailer I am running at 3-3.5K rpms at 55-60mph. In my dump w/6.0L Diesel I am running 2-2.5K rpms at 65mph.


Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't that just work out that way even if you weren't pulling a load? Your revs at any speed are a function of your gear ratios, not the size motor you have or the load you're pulling.


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## fatheadon1 (Dec 27, 2007)

one thing i forgot in my post MAKE SURE what ever you buy 350-550 get the wide track front end,it makes the truck turn on a dime when getting in and out of tight spots you will think you are in a civic


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

They are a function of your gear ration but it also is affected by the load you are carrying. That 350 with the 5.4L will go 70-75mph at 2.5K rpm's unloaded. It's working hard at 3-3.5 and even up to 4K+ rpms on steeper hills. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be running those rpms all the time. Gas engines don't hold up to hard running the way that a diesel will in the long run.


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## MeeksCo (Oct 31, 2008)

Matt400;956251 said:


> Whats wrong with a Dodge 5500?


Because Dodge trucks should't be made anymore. 
You can ignite a bomb in any Dodge dealership throughout the country and nobody would die. 
Chevy or Ford.


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

Just clicked on the Dodge 5500 link. Dodge adopted the Aisin transmission from the sterling Bullet. That may be something to look into.


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## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

jomama45;958551 said:


> I'd suggest checking into you're state specific laws before purchasing.
> 
> Here in WI, those numbers would only allow you to tow a 7K trailer WITHOUT a CDL, regardless to what was or wasn't in the bed of the truck. They take the registered weight of both the truck & trailer added together. In your case, a 19K truck with 12k (assuming) trailer would put you at 31K, over the limit.
> 
> ...


Yep...ur right. We have the same DOT law in that aspect as WI does. GCWR over 26K would require a CDL. The F450 comes standard with a 16 or 16.5K GVW, not sure exactly which one, and with the option to go to 19K.

So if I did order I'd have to go with the standard GVW. Good eye.....


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

jomama45;958551 said:


> I'd suggest checking into you're state specific laws before purchasing.
> 
> Here in WI, those numbers would only allow you to tow a 7K trailer WITHOUT a CDL, regardless to what was or wasn't in the bed of the truck. They take the registered weight of both the truck & trailer added together. In your case, a 19K truck with 12k (assuming) trailer would put you at 31K, over the limit.
> 
> ...


I thought in WI if the trailer weighed under 10,000lbs then it doesn't count against your overall weight. Truck must be 26,000lbs or under then your trailer must be less than 10,000lbs - then they do not add together. If truck is under 26,000lbs and trailer is 10,500lbs - then they add together and you must have a CDL. Hope that makes sense, I checked on this 3-4yrs ago, don't think it's changed.


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## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

WIPensFan;958806 said:


> I thought in WI if the trailer weighed under 10,000lbs then it doesn't count against your overall weight. Truck must be 26,000lbs or under then your trailer must be less than 10,000lbs - then they do not add together. If truck is under 26,000lbs and trailer is 10,500lbs - then they add together and you must have a CDL. Hope that makes sense, I checked on this 3-4yrs ago, don't think it's changed.


The way I understand it is, regardless what the truck & trailer are rated at individually, it's Combined Total what they look at. So once you exceed 26K, Federal law says you have to have a CDL. I don't think state law will trump Federal either.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

millsaps118;958825 said:


> The way I understand it is, regardless what the truck & trailer are rated at individually, it's Combined Total what they look at. So once you exceed 26K, Federal law says you have to have a CDL. I don't think state law will trump Federal either.


Federal law?


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## LON (Aug 20, 2006)

F550 V10 done back in November


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## LON (Aug 20, 2006)

F550 V10 done in Oct


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## LON (Aug 20, 2006)

F450 V10 done in June


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

This is what I found for WI.

Class A:

For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 pounds provided the GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of the towed vehicle(s) is more than 10,000 pounds. 

Class B:

For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any single vehicle with a GVWR , actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 pounds, or such vehicle towing a vehicle with a GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of 10,000 pounds or less. 

Class C:

For operation of a commercial motor vehicle. Any single vehicle with a GVWR , actual weight, or registered weight of 26,000 pounds or less, (or such vehicle towing a vehicle less than 10,000 pounds) transporting hazardous materials requiring placarding or designed to carry 16 or more persons including the driver. 

Class D:

For operation of automobiles; light trucks and mopeds. 

Class M:

For operation of motorcycles. 

Federal I don't understand. Tried to read through it but couldn't comprehend!:laughing:


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

Yeah I've been trying to figure out the federal for about 18 months I stay way from the 26,000 mark because my understanding is the gross weight of truck and trailer is what matters or if truck alone is over then you need a CDL. Once you start crossing state lines then you are governed by Federal DOT guidelines.


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## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

cda817;958904 said:


> Yeah I've been trying to figure out the federal for about 18 months I stay way from the 26,000 mark because my understanding is the gross weight of truck and trailer is what matters or if truck alone is over then you need a CDL. Once you start crossing state lines then you are governed by Federal DOT guidelines.


Believe me brotha your not the only one trying to figure out the laws....I drive a truck & the laws dont make any cents.....When I got my license I got all the endorsements to cover my @ss :laughing:


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

LON Those are great trucks! Can you put any ballpark prices up for each one as is?


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

WIPensFan;958806 said:


> I thought in WI if the trailer weighed under 10,000lbs then it doesn't count against your overall weight. Truck must be 26,000lbs or under then your trailer must be less than 10,000lbs - then they do not add together. If truck is under 26,000lbs and trailer is 10,500lbs - then they add together and you must have a CDL. Hope that makes sense, I checked on this 3-4yrs ago, don't think it's changed.


I can't say for sure, but after talking to my brother after he had a recent DOT traffic stop, I got the impression that ANY GCVWR over 26 K (at least for commercial use) required a CDL. Granted, his equip. trailer is registered for 12K, so I can't rule that out. He did have to drop the trailer off at that point though. Funny thing is, he's had his CDL for 15+ years now, but seeing as he only got it to plow county roads years ago, he never got the attatched trailer endorsement. (I know if crete reads these last three words, he's going to correct me! :realmad

Either way, a T190 is close to 8K already, so it would really limit the trailer & any attatchments used.


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

LON;958889 said:


> F450 V10 done in June


Nice looking truck. I have a similar one. As that truck sits it will get about 5 MPG. Spend the extra $6500 for the diesel and get 10MPG, with twice the pulling power. I made the V10 mistake once. But I wont again.


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## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

Mark Witcher;958953 said:


> Nice looking truck. I have a similar one. As that truck sits it will get about 5 MPG. Spend the extra $6500 for the diesel and get 10MPG, with twice the pulling power. I made the V10 mistake once. But I wont again.


10 mpg in your dreams....I know quite a few people who have the 6.4 diesels & at best are only getting 6.5-7mpg....Never mind the 2011 model diesel is over 10 g's so I've heard


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

Its a fact that the diesel trucks are delivering at least 50% better fuel consumption than a gas engine.


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## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

Mark Witcher;959019 said:


> Its a fact that the diesel trucks are delivering at least 50% better fuel consumption than a gas engine.


50% your not even close....Not the new diesels with all the emisions Bull Shi!


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

Diesels get better fuel economy in general than gas engines. However once you pair any engine with a low gear ratio your fuel economy goes to hell. The diesel in the pickups with the 3.31, 3.55, 3.77 gears get the 50% better fuel economy, once you put it in the dump with 4.1, 4.33 or 4.88 or lower gear ratio that fuel economy is gone


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## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

cda817;959059 said:


> Diesels get better fuel economy in general than gas engines. However once you pair any engine with a low gear ratio your fuel economy goes to hell. The diesel in the pickups with the 3.31, 3.55, 3.77 gears get the 50% better fuel economy, once you put it in the dump with 4.1, 4.33 or 4.88 or lower gear ratio that fuel economy is gone


Well said.....I still got better than 7.5mpg with a F-450 460 big block with over 175,000miles on it & 4.56 gears


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## blowerman (Dec 24, 2007)

I will agree with those that don't see a need to spend the extra money on a 450. Spec'n out a truck is always fun, but the numbers hardly work for what you are trying to do. The $10K figure won't buy a dump, plow and salter. You might be able to find a 09 or 10 sitting around on a dealers lot already upfitted with a dump and plow (maybe salter) fairly cheap as a blowout package. 
I just added (yesterday) a 09 Dodge 3500 Cummins 4x4 with 9' dump (fold down sides) 9' Boss with wings, all set up with hitch and brake controls for $38K brand new. 
Keep looking if you want a deal


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## LON (Aug 20, 2006)

first truck equipment only = a little over 25,500
2nd truck equipment only = a little over 23,000
3rd truck equipment only = not quite 12,100


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## 2FAST4U (Jun 30, 2007)

the new boss 92;956150 said:


> trade it in for a chevy 2500hd 4 door 6 foot box with a d-max and 6 speed trans! ford suck and they are going to be going in the crapper soon. they havent built a quilty truck scence 2000!


ussmileyflagussmileyflag Ok lets back this up Ford has won truck of the year just about every year!!! They have always had a quality truck!!! and how are they going the the crapper there the only com. that didn't take the bail out money and they have been turning Great profits every quarter for the last two, maybe more not to sure on this one. So lets have out Facts straight before we talk SH!T about a great company!!!! ussmileyflag ussmileyflag


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

LON;959110 said:


> first truck equipment only = a little over 25,500
> 2nd truck equipment only = a little over 23,000
> 3rd truck equipment only = not quite 12,100


Thanks LON, that gives everybody some idea of what kind of money it takes to upfit those trucks.


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## mayhem (Aug 25, 2006)

cda817;958655 said:


> They are a function of your gear ration but it also is affected by the load you are carrying. That 350 with the 5.4L will go 70-75mph at 2.5K rpm's unloaded. It's working hard at 3-3.5 and even up to 4K+ rpms on steeper hills. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be running those rpms all the time. Gas engines don't hold up to hard running the way that a diesel will in the long run.


Which is exactly what I was thinking. When I read your first post the first time, it looked like you were endorsing using the 5.4 in the heavier truck...which is backwards.


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## 84deisel (Dec 2, 2003)

So that everybody is on the same page, the lic info that WIPensFan posted for wisc is FEDERAL LAW meaning it is the same in every state. The cdl lic was established so all states would have a uniform set of laws regarding drivers lic.


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

Thank you for clarifing! I'm not smart enough to figure that out. :laughing:


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## The PuSher MaN (Jan 14, 2009)

badabing1512;948457 said:


> Id trade it in and buy a 4500 kodiak


BINGO wesport


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## go plow (Dec 14, 2004)

have you shopped around for a truck? try around 60k not 40k if you buy a chassis/cab out the door at 40 your doing ok. but its going to be a gasser.... your looking at 5k to 6k for the plow 5k for the sander 5k to 7k for a hoist and body, then prob. 1k for strobes... not to mention, roll tarp ,hitch plate


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## Deerewashed (Jan 13, 2010)

kodiak is the way to go. it just has more beef and you can put a bigger plow because it is just a big mean truck.


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

WIPensFan;958806 said:


> I thought in WI if the trailer weighed under 10,000lbs then it doesn't count against your overall weight. Truck must be 26,000lbs or under then your trailer must be less than 10,000lbs - then they do not add together. If truck is under 26,000lbs and trailer is 10,500lbs - then they add together and you must have a CDL. Hope that makes sense, I checked on this 3-4yrs ago, don't think it's changed.


That is exactly how it is in CT also. I have a 6500 rated at 25950 GVWR and I could pull any trailer 10,000 or less. As soon as that trailer is 10,001lbs or more you need a class A lic. If the truck is 26,000lbs or more you need a Class B but can still pull a 10,000 or less trailer.

The laws are screwy but that is the large grey area right now. The Fed laws are supposed to change in the next year or 2 and be the same for all the states. (so I was told by my instructor)

Another example: This will twist your brain If you have a one ton pick up rated at 12,200lbs you can pull a 12,000lb (6ton) trailer without a Class A because the combo of the 2 are not more than 26klbs. But you can *not* pull a 14,000lb (7ton) rated trailer with out a Class A lic. because you are over the combo weight of 26klbs.

I know these facts are accurate because I just went though it all last year. I just went and got my Class A. Now I can drive an 18wheeler.wesport

Also any truck or Combo of truck and trailer over 18,000lbs GVWR you must have a Med card in your wallet. That is the first thing they ask for when you get pulled over Don't ask me how I know 



LON said:


> first truck equipment only = a little over 25,500
> 2nd truck equipment only = a little over 23,000
> 3rd truck equipment only = not quite 12,100


LON, Nice trucks. I noticed not one of them has a Deisel......I wonder why??? Good choice!


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## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

millsaps118;955781 said:


> *Just had one spec'd out at the local ford dealer.
> 
> 
> 2011 F450 4x4 Super Cab XLT Plow Prep w/6.7L diesel = $46,500
> ...





go plow;960388 said:


> have you shopped around for a truck? try around 60k not 40k if you buy a chassis/cab out the door at 40 your doing ok. but its going to be a gasser.... your looking at 5k to 6k for the plow 5k for the sander 5k to 7k for a hoist and body, then prob. 1k for strobes... not to mention, roll tarp ,hitch plate


How'd you miss this, it was on the first page.......^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

The question is do you want or need a extra cab 4x4 diesel 450.....Thats alot of the money right there


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## LON (Aug 20, 2006)

> LON, Nice trucks. I noticed not one of them has a Deisel......I wonder why??? Good choice!


Choice of gas engines was up to the customer not me. Gas engine made putting on clutch pump a whole lot easier. None of them are bragging about mileage for sure.


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

hlntoiz;960754 said:


> That is exactly how it is in CT also. I have a 6500 rated at 25950 GVWR and I could pull any trailer 10,000 or less. As soon as that trailer is 10,001lbs or more you need a class A lic. If the truck is 26,000lbs or more you need a Class B but can still pull a 10,000 or less trailer.
> 
> The laws are screwy but that is the large grey area right now. The Fed laws are supposed to change in the next year or 2 and be the same for all the states. (so I was told by my instructor)
> 
> ...


I believe according to MA state police that the 18,000GVWR or combo was reduced to over 10,000 needs a med card. I was hauling with my F350 pickup10,500GVWR w/7,000GVWR Trailer and the first thing he asked for was my med card.


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

cda817;959059 said:


> Diesels get better fuel economy in general than gas engines. However once you pair any engine with a low gear ratio your fuel economy goes to hell. The diesel in the pickups with the 3.31, 3.55, 3.77 gears get the 50% better fuel economy, once you put it in the dump with 4.1, 4.33 or 4.88 or lower gear ratio that fuel economy is gone


My F450 V10 has 4.88 gears in it. With a diesel it would have 4.10 gear. The diesel run about 700 to 1000 rpm lower. Are any of the guys with the 3 car haulers out there on the road using the gas engine one tons? Answer NO.


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

We were talking about diesel engines getting better fuel economy. I was explaining that the diesel in the pickup trucks does get better fuel economy and why. I'm sure your v-10 F450 does not get better than 8-10mpg. The 2010 F550 w/6.4L Diesel comes standard with 4.88 gears with the 19,500 payload. The 2010 F450 w/Diesel and 16,500gvwr comes standard with 4.88 gears as well.


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

cda817;960976 said:


> I believe according to MA state police that the 18,000GVWR or combo was reduced to over 10,000 needs a med card. I was hauling with my F350 pickup10,500GVWR w/7,000GVWR Trailer and the first thing he asked for was my med card.


Maybe because you had commercial plates? I know here in CT ANY truck rated over 10,000lbs must have commerical plates now. It is a new law to get more $$ from everyone.


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

cda817;961448 said:


> We were talking about diesel engines getting better fuel economy. I was explaining that the diesel in the pickup trucks does get better fuel economy and why. I'm sure your v-10 F450 does not get better than 8-10mpg. The 2010 F550 w/6.4L Diesel comes standard with 4.88 gears with the 19,500 payload. The 2010 F450 w/Diesel and 16,500gvwr comes standard with 4.88 gears as well.


Diesel Trucks come standard with 4.30 ratio. Gas trucks come with 4.88. 4.30 Which is equal to a F350 with 4.10 ratio. Slightly different tire dia.


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## Buck Bros. (Jan 12, 2010)

millsaps118;947646 said:


> You'd be using if for landscaping, plowing & salting. How would you configure it? And you only have 40K to spend......
> 
> Here are some options:
> 
> ...


I would then ask you for a title transfer .


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

Mark Witcher;962314 said:


> Diesel Trucks come standard with 4.30 ratio. Gas trucks come with 4.88. 4.30 Which is equal to a F350 with 4.10 ratio. Slightly different tire dia.


I don't want to get in a pissing contest build and price a F450 or 550 on fords website with those GVWRS or go to the dealer and ask them to see a truck with those specs that's where those numbers came from. As soon as you put 19500 for the GVWR in the 550 it changes the gear ratio same for the 450 w/16500 gvwr.


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## mzgloves20 (Nov 30, 2008)

Off topic..

R u related to Davi Millsaps?


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## Buck Bros. (Jan 12, 2010)

cda817;962846 said:


> I don't want to get in a pissing contest build and price a F450 or 550 on fords website with those GVWRS or go to the dealer and ask them to see a truck with those specs that's where those numbers came from. As soon as you put 19500 for the GVWR in the 550 it changes the gear ratio same for the 450 w/16500 gvwr.


custom ordered cab chassis?


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## cda817 (Nov 20, 2009)

It's not custom ordered, member Mark Witcher was commenting on the super duty gear ratios. I made a comment that the F450 and 550 come with 4.88 gears and he was telling me 4.10. I was just using the build and price as a location to find the information to back up my # because the 450 and 550 can come with lower gvwr's and subsequently a lower gear ratio(not 4.10 in any gvwr). However, the dealers from what I have seen only order them with the maximum gvwr, which means that a 450 w/16500 gvwr or the 550 with 19500 gvwr comes with 4.88 gears.


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## A&LSiteService (Sep 13, 2010)

My 09 550 has a 6.4 and 4:88 gears. Hope this helps


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