# DOT, CDL, Regulations...



## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

Hi everyone, just wondering what everyone has for regulations and laws in their area. Here in Missouri the rumor is that any vehicle at 18,000BL and up, used commercially should have a DOT number and be operated by a CDL driver. Wondering if anyone can elaborate on this in their area, horror stories, etc.


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## Rickco (Dec 5, 2006)

Actually DOT rules are federal not local. The rule is that any truck weighing 10,001 Lbs-26,000 does require Dot No. and the driver must possess a medical card but not a CDL.
26,001 and up does requirer a CDL.


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## Oshkosh (Sep 11, 2005)

*This site had allot of information on CDL's...*

The link below has allot of information on CDL's...

http://www.truckaccidents.com/


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

*One-tons w/ DOT & Signs*



Rickco;359098 said:


> Actually DOT rules are federal not local. The rule is that any truck weighing 10,001 Lbs-26,000 does require Dot No. and the driver must possess a medical card but not a CDL.
> 26,001 and up does requirer a CDL.


The equipment dealers around here, such as KC Bobcat, all run DOT numbers on their one-tons... is this just a precaution? Also a buddy of mine who owns a nursery runs all of his company trucks "clean", he says the sign age, or logos, attract attention from the highway patrol... what do you guys think?
Thanks


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## Oshkosh (Sep 11, 2005)

*I have a welder buddy*



WinnEnterprises;359166 said:


> The equipment dealers around here, such as KC Bobcat, all run DOT numbers on their one-tons... is this just a precaution? Also a buddy of mine who owns a nursery runs all of his company trucks "clean", he says the sign age, or logos, attract attention from the highway patrol... what do you guys think?
> Thanks


 I have a welder buddy with a F450 and he has DOT numbers,commercial inspection the works...He is by the letter of the law and wouldn't do it if he didn't have to...
If you plan on towing and your combined weight truck, trailer and load is over 26,001 then you need a class A license...Kind of funny/strange guys with super duty's having to have a class A...
I guess it all comes down to the risk's you are willing to take with your livelihood!!!!


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

Actually, Missouri has interpretted the DOT laws differently than everyone else. I forget the particulars, but you want to check with the MDOT.

Yes, I'm serious.


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

I have heard the same Mick, which brings me back to my confusion. Pamphlets say this, the web sites say that, my buddies with tickets from the Highway patrol say different yet again. Is there no standardized rule or website or book or something where I guy can get straight answers. Yet another friend of mine told me that the officer that pulled him over more or less told him that the law isn't very clear and it really depends on the officer's mood that day...


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## carcrz (Jun 5, 2006)

We do some sholder work for MODOT from time to time & asked them this question last year. Anyone that drives a commercial vehicle must have at least a Class E license. After that, the bigger you go, the more testing you have to go through.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

carcrz;359358 said:


> We do some sholder work for MODOT from time to time & asked them this question last year. Anyone that drives a commercial vehicle must have at least a Class E license. After that, the bigger you go, the more testing you have to go through.


 What is Class E? I'm only finding A, B and C with the usual endorsements:
http://www.dmv.org/mo-missouri/apply-cdl.php


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## carcrz (Jun 5, 2006)

I think it is basically a chaufferr's license. I actually am not sure what all it covers except that DOT & the Missouri State Troopers said that is what we should get. It is ONLY because the vehicles are used commercially.

Just did a search - Class E - FOR HIRE


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

finally found some information regarding MO laws, check out http://www.dor.mo.gov/mvdl/drivers/dlguide/chapter15.pdf
still seems as though no one web site has all the information.

my google search said it (class e) is for school bus drivers or commercial vehicles (vechicles for hire) under 36,000BL. Carcrz, what is required of someone to get a class e?


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## carcrz (Jun 5, 2006)

Go in & take a written test. The only difference between a regular class F license & the E was 2 questions. I can't remember both of them, but 1 of them was about the tracking of trailer tires & how they take a shorter route. The test was cake.


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

I must be brain dead, my other question, or comment, was that it seems as though as long as you have your road triangles and fire extinguishers, there is nothing special required of the vehicle itself if it is licensed for under 26,000. Just the driver needs a class e. does that sound right? Which also makes no sense as to why KC Bobcat runs DOT numbers on all their one-tons...


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## carcrz (Jun 5, 2006)

You have to remember that your weight is combined weight - truck & trailer. You figure the truck already weighs 10K - 12K I think. It doesn't take much to be at the limit. I really don't remember a lot on the regs for #'s, but it is weight related. I'll try to remember to look in the book when I go into the office next week.


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

thanks carcrz, i can't believe after two years of asking around i am finally getting some straight anwsers!


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## carcrz (Jun 5, 2006)

No problem. If you have more questions, go into the test taking area & talk to one of the people that looks like they know what they are talking about. In Lee's Summit, it is run by the State Patrol so I talked to them quite a bit.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

WinnEnterprises;359495 said:


> I must be brain dead, my other question, or comment, was that it seems as though as long as you have your road triangles and fire extinguishers, there is nothing special required of the vehicle itself if it is licensed for under 26,000. Just the driver needs a class e. does that sound right? Which also makes no sense as to why KC Bobcat runs DOT numbers on all their one-tons...


If they are operating in a state other than the state in which they are registered, then they would need a DOT #.

In Maine, I can drive my own truck registered Commercial with a Class C (non-CDL) driver's license if it's under 26,000 # - no air brakes, etc. I don't need any numbers, med card etc. I'll probably need to get a Commercial inspection the next time, but right now I've even got a passenger vehicle inspection because that's how I bought it. But then needed to register Commercial in order to get Liability insurance.


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## BOSS550 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Dot*

I got hammered in Pa about 2 yrs ago with my last F550. The short version is I need a USDOT to run commercially between states since my vehicle is for business. I need a medical card because my truck GVW is over 16,000#. I need a drug test to go with the medical card--noone tells you that part. If your trailer is over 10,001 # you must register your truck/trailer in combination and have a class A CDL. The truck and trailer must have a FMCSA yearly inspection in addition to any state inspection if either or both pieces GVW is 16,000# or more. If you have employees you also nedd to take a USDOT class on drug testing your employees--YES I'm serious. Don't try to play dumb if these guys pull ya over; it pisses em off more. All this stuff is federal it has nothing to do with state laws even tho local cops happily enforce them.
The only good news is if they do get ya you can get on a payment plan to pay off the fines. For the word from the horses mouth so to speak look up USDOT or FMSCA( federal motor carrier safety administration) If you have any other questions I'll gladly try to help. I wouldn't wish this crap on anybody. It's too $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:angry:


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

ok, so DOT numbers are required for INTERstate carriers, not INTRAstate carriers? and i don't quite understand the registering your vehicle and trailer together part you mentioned BOSS...


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

Just got done talking to my Bobcat sales man about all this and he informed me of a lot. Regulations regarding commercial trucks are put out in several ways including federal, state, city and county. For example here in KC Missouri, we have a KCDOT as well as all the other, that of course have separate regulations than the others. Machines/Equipment 10,000lbs. and heavier require four chains and boomers instead of the two must of us are use to. All and all state may says this, but federal says that... you can't win... It is ridiculous to think that they can to a point pull you over for a routine stop and most likely find something wrong with your rig, according to somebody. :realmad: Makes we want to go into the DOT business payup payup :angry:


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## BOSS550 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Dot*

Hey Winn Enterprises! I can't answer for Intra state. As soon as I found out since I'm Interstate I needed it I took care of it. Weight was a non issue. You could have a 1/2 ton van and still need a USDOT#. I'm not sure how your state works for getting a title done-- in Pa we have notary shops-- If you have something similar try to find one that specializes in trucks and they may be able to steer you straight. Since it is federally regulated not state you could probably call the guy I use in Pa and ask him-- he's the one that got me out of the mess I got into. His name is Leon Fox-1-717-445-5795.
As for the combination weight I pull a 20,000 pound equipment trailer. Since my trailer is rated for more than 10,001 pounds I HAVE to register them as a combination. I also have my 01 Chevy 2500 HD tug as a combination so I can legally pull this and a 7K gooseneck trailer. Check out the owners manual for your truck. Usually in the towing section it will list max capacities for bumper pull (reciever hitch) and fifth wheel hitches. This is your GCWR which can vary with motor, trans, gears, etc. It should give you a starting point for figuring out what your weight number can be. This stuff can be confusing as HE!!!! Hope this is some help.


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## Mick (May 19, 2001)

WinnEnterprises;360950 said:


> ok, so DOT numbers are required for INTERstate carriers, not INTRAstate carriers?.


That is correct, in that USDOT does not regulate INTRASTATE commerce. However, you may still need State DOT #. Check with your licensing and commerce regulation department in your state's Motor Vehicle department/division or whatever you have.


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## andrewlawnrangr (Dec 3, 2004)

im in pa and i need a little help with this.. i know i need a medical card.... my truck is redegesterd 17,000... oh yeah its a 01 f-550.. i down graded it from 17500 bec at that weight it needs to be inspected 2 times a year....

now lets say i drive to jesery do i need DOT # on my truck

also where can i get a IFTA sticker 


where should i start with all of this .. i have nothign now..


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## BOSS550 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Dot*

HEy Andrewlawnranger, start with IFTA and go backwards. You don't need IFTA unless your truck and or combination weight are 26,001 or more. If you do then you must file quarterly fuel reports also which means tracking all fuel and all miles in whatever states you get registered in and then pay quarterly taxes on those miles. If you can stay below 26K you will save yourself a lot of paperwork and headaches. The IFTA stickers are 5 bucks for the set if you need them. Look up the PA Dept of Revenue for the stikers. I've never heard of 17K up needing a twice a year inspection. Let me know where you heard this cuz I'd like to make sure I didn't miss anything on my end. You need a PA state and a FMSCA inspection. Most big rig dealers can do the FMSCA inspection. Mine cost 110 bucks. Major rip off but it's cheaper than the $550.50 fine if you get stopped by a cop that has a bad day. If you go to Jersey you should have a USDOT #. They are no big deal to get. You can do it online at the FMSCA site or any notary that deals with big trucks can get it for you but be prepared to pay extra. As far as a medical card yes, you should have that ($550.50 fine if you don't) and a drug test card (ditto on the fine) to go with it. If you can find an occupational health center (call your nearest hospital to start) they will do the physical and drug test at the same time for about $110.00 bucks. Any more ? just ask


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

What's an IFTA sticker and what is it for, who needs it, etc...


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## BOSS550 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Dot*

IFTA stands for International Fuel Tax Agreement. It's a Multi country agreement set up by the FMSCA that makes it easier for truckers to report their fuel use and mileage that covers parts of Canada, SOME of the lower 48 and MExico. If your truck and or combination exceed 26,000# AND you travel INTERSTATE for business you need to have an IFTA stickers on your truck ( $550.50 if you don't--Anyone see a pattern here? ). If you exceed 26 K but only do INTRASTATE business usually the home state you are in requires something similar but not as much record keeping or quarterly reporting. Some states like Kentucky and New York require another sticker and some more fuel/ mileage reports in addition. The 26 K is the key here. Stay below it and you don't need it.


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

Thanks again BOSS. Regarding the medical card, physical, drug test, etc. who needs that? Also does FMCSA enforce any different laws from the USDOT?


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## BOSS550 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Dot*

Hi Winn, If you drive a truck over 16,000# REGISTERED GVW you need the med and drug cards. As far as I know- no they don't. Just different uniforms at the weigh stations. Here's more to try and clear up the combination tag question earlier. Say your truck is reg 10K and loaded to 10K and your trailer is reg 12K and loaded to 12K; your not legal unless your units are tug in combination even tho you don't exceed you max gvw on both units. The way the law sees it you are 12K overweight. If your trailer exceeds the magic 10,001# number you can't weigh more than the max gvw of the truck with out a combo tag unless the trailer is reg and weighs 10,000# or less. So you would get the std overweight fine plus the $75 per 500# after the first 2000#. It ads up pretty quick. If the cop really wants to pull your chain they start looking at hitch ratings, tire and wheel ratings, reflective stickers in the right places etc..: there is just no end if they get mad. Hope that clears some more up for ya.


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

regarding the trailer and truck combo, if your truck is licensed for 26000#, and your truck and trailer together never go above that then you do not need to license them together? but if your truck is licensed for 26000# and your truck and trailer do go over that amount you need to license them together? right...
and all truck licensed over 16000# for Interstate commerce need a med. card, but Intrastate 16000# over do not need a med. card?
sorry to be difficult BOSS, but I do appreciate your help...


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## BOSS550 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Dot*

No need to apoligize. This stuff is confusing. Glad to help. Yes you do need to combo tag them if the trailer is over 10,001#. If the trailer is 10,000 or less then no you don't need to combo tag as long as your total is under 26K. If you did it your way you would get out of the overweight fines but they would get you on the paperwork not being right. That was one of my problems. Mechanically I was legal but on paper I wasn't. As far as the md and drug cards you need it for both Inter and Intra. Most states have a handout called a Truckers Handbook. It covers most questions about you local regs. I got mine at my notary shop but your state DOT should be able to get you one or tell you where to look. Keep the???'s coming I'll do my best xysport xysport


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

for clarification, if the trailer and truck are under 26K and the trailer alone is UNDER 10K then you do NOT need the combo tags, and if the truck and trailer are under 26K but the trailer alone is OVER 10K then you DO need combo tags...


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## BOSS550 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Dot*

Now ya got it Winnpurplebou :redbounce :bluebounc


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

and the combo tags are a Federal regulation for INTERstate only?


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## BOSS550 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Dot*

Nope--Intra and Inter. I told ya itwas a pain in theA$$.


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## WinnEnterprises (Jan 26, 2007)

BOSS, you would be happy to know that I spoke to the state today on the phone and they said (about your information), "sounds like that guy knows what he is talking about". He also mentioned that if your trailer is over 10K then you need a class A CDL, which means again the med. card, etc. He said drug test are a company policy normally and vary state to state. He said that every commercial vehicle needs to have the owner's name, city, and state on it. The DOT numbers are not required for INTRAstate travel, yet. He also told me that people under the age of 21 are not allowed to operate commercial vehicles on the interstate... He also told me to check out www.fmcsa.dot.gov for more information (as well as several phone# for my state regulations). I want to thank you again BOSS for your information and wish everyone the best of luck... :salute:


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## BOSS550 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Dot*

Winn, no problem glad to help. It's good to hearyou are making progress on getting your questions answered and confirmed by your DOT. Nothing more frustrating than wasting time trying to get questions answered and getting no info or worse--bad info. Best of luck with the rest of your research.


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## Excalibur2006 (Sep 14, 2005)

*nysdot number*

does anyone know the website to get nysdot #'s? i looked on the nys site but all i can find is about usdot numbers. thanks


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## jrglandscape (Jul 22, 2007)

I am in Michigan, still trying to find out all of the b.s. on this whole segment. I just went and got the dot number. I hate to have to keep doing more and more to try and run a business. Sure we can call and email all of the right people about this and give them ear fulls but, in the mean time we better get it done and try to avoid the costly fines associated with the whole mess. I know they are pulling over all of us landscapers and trying to find anything the matter. I just haven't be hit yet. I see them pulled over every single day. I got the number and on the trucks they go. I do try to keep all of my stuff looking new and clean just hoping that they may over look my stuff and get the one who didn't wash his truck and trailer. Sorry but that's just the way I see it. I have all the triangles, flares, comerical plates, and fire extingusier. Now just add a usdot number and hope for the best.

James


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## jrglandscape (Jul 22, 2007)

One last thought on this,

Has anybody even seen any thing about this other than from what happens to some of us. It just seems that they are being really snicky about this whole usdot number thing. Why not let us know threw advertisment what is comming. I just happen to find this site and seen that some in mich had alot of problems from the state police over the issue. That is the only reason that I know anything of the matter. Just seems wrong to me. Another way try pick on us little guys.

James


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## bltp203 (Nov 5, 2006)

For those in Michigan who want to keep on top of Motor Carrier regulations, you can contact the Michigan Center for Truck Safety. 1-800-682-4682


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## BOSS550 (Jan 19, 2007)

You can also go on the USDOT site and be on thier e-mail list for all the other crap that gets updated reguarly--- hours of service, vehicle inspections, drug testing, maintenece records etc... there is alot more to a dot # than just hanging it on your truck in the event you get audited. Excalibur-- I'll check my stuff tonite I travel in NY but I don't need a NYSDOT that you need but I know what you're talking about. I may have a phone # for NY that I report my fuel takes/miles to that can help you out.


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## BOSS550 (Jan 19, 2007)

Excalibur, I don't know for sure if this will work but it may get you some info to get the right people. 
NYS Tax Dept.
Taxpayer Services & Revenue Division
Highway use tax Registration unit
W A Harrington Campus
Albany NY 12227-0163
Tel# 1 800 972 1233
Web: www.nystax.gov

These are the guys I have to file my quarterly highway taxes with in NY and they go by my DOT #

Good Luck.


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## spencer087 (Sep 10, 2008)

Federal law states that you must fill out an MCS-150 if you operate a vehicle commercially and its GCWR is over 10000lbs IF you live in a state that requires it for inTRAstate operations. An easy way to tell is to follow this link, It asks 10 questions and tells you if you need one or not  P.S. if you are lawn care or transport fuel for agriculture or as a material of business i.e. weedeater/mower gas there is an exception and you do NOT have to have a danger triangle or licensing

http://http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/gettingstarted/guide0.10.htm


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