# How Many Times Will You Plow Before Payment



## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm not very big into plowing, only about 16 driveways. I do per push and about half haven't paid yet from the clearing 10 days ago. Invoices are sent with the option to pay instantly by credit or debit card. A few did it right away.

We have a large event coming up. Would you service them again or not?

I'm sending out a reminder tomorrow morning to make payment to be able to maintain services but wanted some thoughts.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

ParagonExt said:


> I'm not very big into plowing, only about 16 driveways. I do per push and about half haven't paid yet from the clearing 10 days ago. Invoices are sent with the option to pay instantly by credit or debit card. A few did it right away.
> 
> We have a large event coming up. Would you service them again or not?
> 
> I'm sending out a reminder tomorrow morning to make payment to be able to maintain services but wanted some thoughts.


I invoice at the end of each month. 
Most pay within a week. I have a couple slow payers, but I know they're slow and charge accordingly. 
It's common for property managers, commercial, etc to take up to 30 days to pay. 
I reminder just before a major event seems to light a fire under their behind.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

What does your contract state for payment terms?


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## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

Payments are Due Upon receipt. Interest accrues after 14 days. What I realized I am missing is that service won't continue until payments are made in full.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Send your reminders before this next storm but I wouldn't cut off service just yet...IMO


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

ParagonExt said:


> Payments are Due Upon receipt. Interest accrues after 14 days. What I realized I am missing is that service won't continue until payments are made in full.


I don't think its legal to charge interest after 14 days, not sure. 
What I do know is charging a late fee is far less complicated than charging interest. If you charge interest, that has to be reported to the department of financial institutions, or whatever it is.


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## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

Most likely is what I will do. I don't want to leave anyone hanging and I am accustomed to waiting 30+ days for payments on larger projects but those are tens or even over hundred thousand dollars. Not used to it on smaller amount where I will be continually providing a service.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

ParagonExt said:


> Most likely is what I will do. I don't want to leave anyone hanging and I am accustomed to waiting 30+ days for payments on larger projects but those are tens or even over hundred thousand dollars. Not used to it on smaller amount where I will be continually providing a service.


The service industry is different than construction. 
Unfortunately, you can't put a lien on the property like you can for capital improvements. 
I take it you didn't get the townhome account, since you have only 16 driveways?


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## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

EWSplow said:


> The service industry is different than construction.
> Unfortunately, you can't put a lien on the property like you can for capital improvements.
> I take it you didn't get the townhome account, since you have only 16 driveways?


Yes, actually I did but then they threw more curve balls my way with other requests that they were expecting to be done at the same cost. Some other red flags popped up and then I was able to realize why they were having trouble finding someone so I politely declined at that point.


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

EWSplow said:


> I don't think its legal to charge interest after 14 days, not sure.
> What I do know is charging a late fee is far less complicated than charging interest. If you charge interest, that has to be reported to the department of financial institutions, or whatever it is.


I've seen terms as low as net 7 days


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

m_ice said:


> I've seen terms as low as net 7 days


That doesn't necessarily mean you can legally charge interest, but I'm not an expert. 
Best is to check your state laws.


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

ParagonExt said:


> Invoices are sent with the option to pay instantly by credit or debit card. A few did it right away.


Are you by chance invoicing through Square or another payment app? If so, I have found that some people, even though it clearly states it, don't realize that they can pay directly through that invoice in their e-mail. It's super handy but I think it's still foreign to some people.

I guess none of this applies if your doing something different....


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## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

Kinport said:


> Are you by chance invoicing through Square or another payment app? If so, I have found that some people, even though it clearly states it, don't realize that they can pay directly through that invoice in their e-mail. It's super handy but I think it's still foreign to some people.
> 
> I guess none of this applies if your doing something different....


No, It is through quickbooks. It clearly reads in the email that they can pay online by clicking a specific link. It is also something pre-discussed.

I get what you're saying though. People tend to forget it is 2020 Now.


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

Yea, we use both Square and QuickBooks, they are somewhat similar platforms, and we struggle with the same issue you do. When we started using them, I was hoping I could convert all of my customers to using it because it saves so much work on my end, but I found that some of them just weren’t getting it. It would go into their inbox and sit, or they would print it off and write me a check and send it in.

I think it’s a mindset thing. Some people see a bill and rush to get it paid, some people throw it on the back burner and I think we all have some of each for customers. I give them a month ( other than they ones that have made other arraignments beforehand, it can take a while for payments to process when your working with big companies) and then I’ll give whoever I’m working with at the company(we do all commercial) a call and just politely inquire about the check “I haven’t seen come through yet”.

I feel you though, waiting on payment sucks


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

EWSplow said:


> That doesn't necessarily mean you can legally charge interest, but I'm not an expert.
> Best is to check your state laws.


I have seen interest rate caps


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

EWSplow said:


> I don't think its legal to charge interest after 14 days, not sure.
> What I do know is charging a late fee is far less complicated than charging interest. If you charge interest, that has to be reported to the department of financial institutions, or whatever it is.


Interesting....I paid everything with a CC, and pay the CC off monthly, never pay any interest.

The same but not the same.

Either way, lots of people get paid every two weeks....give them a chance to come out the pocket and pay.


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## grnleafgrnscape (Nov 30, 2013)

It isn't legal in Wisconsin to charge interest unless you had them fill out a credit application.
Service charge doesn't require anything except having it stated on the invoice


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## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Consider only seasonal agreements for residentials. This will eliminate all the problems you’re having.


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## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

grnleafgrnscape said:


> It isn't legal in Wisconsin to charge interest unless you had them fill out a credit application.
> Service charge doesn't require anything except having it stated on the invoice


That's interesting. I paid my lawyer $$$ to write up my contract and have him review it yearly. I don't know how it isn't legal to charge interest and why he would put it in their if it isn't.


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## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

grnleafgrnscape said:


> It isn't legal in Wisconsin to charge interest unless you had them fill out a credit application.
> Service charge doesn't require anything except having it stated on the invoice


Says different here.
https://www.wdfi.org/wca/business_guidance/creditors/late_charge_vs_finance_charge.htm


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Do you actually read that?

To be obligated to an open-end account, a customer must sign an agreement regarding the terms and must be given an exact copy of the agreement. The creditor is required to provide the customer with a statement containing specific billing information for each billing cycle.

And

be considered a late charge, the merchant *must* treat the account as past due if payment is not made *and not allow the customer to add more charges* to the already past due account

So on face value, you must not service to customer

I read this as if you were a creditor, did your clients fill out a credit app?


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## grnleafgrnscape (Nov 30, 2013)

Just telling you want I had happen when I took someone to court a couple years ago. 
Judge said unless I had them fill out credit app I can't collect or charge interest.
Service fee just has to be said on invoice as well as when it it goes on, ie anything 30 days past due $x.xx service fee will be added to bill


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## grnleafgrnscape (Nov 30, 2013)

No, I never read that. Have never had a problem with snowplowing. My only issue was with a home builder. That was the court case and my education on charging interest


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## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

grnleafgrnscape said:


> Just telling you want I had happen when I took someone to court a couple years ago.
> Judge said unless I had them fill out credit app I can't collect or charge interest.
> Service fee just has to be said on invoice as well as when it it goes on, ie anything 30 days past due $x.xx service fee will be added to bill


It's something I'll look in to more. It doesn't worry me too much in regards to the plowing money since the amounts are smaller for me. I more or less don't want to waste time if they don't want to pay. If I lose some dollars once because they don't want to pay, okay fine. I don't want to lose dollars twice when I can be on my couch instead.

That's why I wanted to know how long everyone is willing to wait on payment and how many times they are willing to service that property while waiting on payment. If the agreement is that it's due upon completion and they don't pay, how many times will you plow it?


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## grnleafgrnscape (Nov 30, 2013)

I guess I only do a couple residential accounts because I do their business too. I have never stopped service, all the accounts we do we have been doing for years so not worried if they get a couple months behind.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

ParagonExt said:


> Says different here.
> https://www.wdfi.org/wca/business_guidance/creditors/late_charge_vs_finance_charge.htm


As I mentioned, if you charge a late fee you don't have to do the DFI reports. 
You can charge 1% / month late fees or, you can become a lender and charge 1.5% per month.


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## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

EWSplow said:


> As I mentioned, if you charge a late fee you don't have to do the DFI reports.
> You can charge 1% / month late fees or, you can become a lender and charge 1.5% per month.


Ahh well my contract does say Late Fee. Look at that. Guess I always assumed they were one in the same.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

ParagonExt said:


> Ahh well my contract does say Late Fee. Look at that. Guess I always assumed they were one in the same.


That's why your attorney worded it that way. Thumbs Up


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

i think you need to call them "late payment fees"


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

We don't plow any before receiving payment for plowing.

All our residentials are seasonal, all paid in full before the season starts. Don't pay, you're not on the route.

Used to do 2 pays, got stiffed for half a season by one customer. That was enough for me.

Or you can do like AJ's Snowplowing here in GR...collect everything up front and then never plow. @BossPlow2010 really likes those calls\emails\texts.


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

I have about 4 of 25 unpaid from last month, sent out "PAST DUE" emails yesterday. Now I have inbox full of "checks in the mail" lol.

"PAST DUE-NOVEMBER INVOICE #XXXX...We have a large multiday storm incoming and your account is past due, please respond to avoid service interruptions..." Works everytime.


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## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

cjames808 said:


> I have about 4 of 25 unpaid from last month, sent out "PAST DUE" emails yesterday. Now I have inbox full of "checks in the mail" lol.
> 
> "PAST DUE-NOVEMBER INVOICE #XXXX...We have a large multiday storm incoming and your account is past due, please respond to avoid service interruptions..." Works everytime.


Lol. Actually sent out something similar this morning. Only waiting on payment from one more now.


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## 1620cwj (Oct 16, 2019)

We worked snow different from season contracts. We'd bill after each storm because people forget when it snowed and we explained this in the beginning of the season and please be prompt paying your account so service isn't interrupted. Had accounts that paid a flat fee on a budget so I billed in beginning of season for the whole season.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

A knock on the door face to face always gets me paid up...I’m not that intimidating either. People rarely want a confrontation...


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## ParagonExt (Jan 8, 2014)

Everyone paid except one guy who still owed from back in November. We didn't do his properties. I still haven't heard from him. Gives me the feeling he does this yearly. Gets a few plows out of guys and finds someone new for a few more.


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## EWSplow (Dec 4, 2012)

ParagonExt said:


> Everyone paid except one guy who still owed from back in November. We didn't do his properties. I still haven't heard from him. Gives me the feeling he does this yearly. Gets a few plows out of guys and finds someone new for a few more.


Did you happen to drive by any of his properties to see if they'd been done?


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I have found the best way to get paid is to more or less insult people in a nice way.

Send them a statement with this verbiage:

"Your invoice is past due, if you cannot afford the total invoice amount, please contact us and we can set you up on an affordable payment plan."

It gets you paid 9 times out of 10 in a day or two.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

ParagonExt said:


> Everyone paid except one guy who still owed from back in November. We didn't do his properties. I still haven't heard from him. Gives me the feeling he does this yearly. Gets a few plows out of guys and finds someone new for a few more.


I had one of those, kind of. We have a municipal contract. Properties that don't do their public sidewalk are sent a " compliance reminder" from the city code enforcement. They don't take care of it,the city sends us.
Couple years ago, a business made the list.
We did the work. Guy pitched a fit w/ the city. Next year, he hires us to do his big old Victorian apt. house. Lots of hand shoveling, steps, small walks etc. Complete PITA.
Dec. was a terrible month, tons of snow.
Big bill for him. I was ecstatic when he hadn't paid by Jan.10, so I could drop him. We didn't have a serviceable event in Jan. before the 10th. The next time.it snowed, not a word from him. He was so p.o.'ed about the city sidewalk that he was going to stick it to me, but good.
$322 was the cost for that important lesson 
I come to hear through the grapevine this year, some friendswent to eat there. No beer, not a bottle, nothing on tap, nada.
One of my wife's coworkers husband is a liquor rep. She says ," oh yeah, Bob said did something about that" ,apparently the local brewery they were supplied by hadn't been getting paid either, and those guys are a pretty tight group, so they pulled their inventory and he had a heck of a time getting a new supplier .


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## Mistifier (Aug 21, 2016)

I had a really slow payer, the following year I informed them the price is doubling, but the is a 50% discount for paying within 30 days. Now they pay on time, everytime.


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## midnight pumpkin (Jan 27, 2017)

Probably been said many times already but the more you spell out expectations on both sides of any transaction(up front) the happier both parties will be.


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## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

We give our renters a $25 discount if they pay before the 1st. It's been a good motivator for them.


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