# Customer re-writes contract



## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

Here's the quick story: 

We've got an alley client, to whom we sent the contract to in early October. The alley has 4 businesses on it, and they all pay for the contract, and the client just sends a letter to all his neighbors, thanking the businesses and getting them free advertising. This is the 3rd year we've done the alley; this year we switched to a much more thorough contract. The businesses paid the money in late November, and we've been plowing since the snow started. 

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, and after about 5 reminders, the client finally responded about getting the contract signed. Here's the deal- he didn't like ours, so he re-wrote it and sent it back to us. We're talking MAJOR revisions, stuff that would make me run for the hills before I signed it. Anyone ever had a deal like that? We politely told him this wasn't going to work at all, but we'd continue to plow the alley since all the neighbors\businesses love us, and since the money has been paid, until the dispute was settled. I was tempted to play hardball, but we're taking the high road and getting our attorney to review everything, and hopefully this guy will back down once I send him the reply from the lawyer.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Sounds like he is just the leader with no real power of attorney over the others. Send out a couple of your to all the other ones and have them sign it.


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

We plan on having the businesses sign it next year (we do their lots, and have great relationships with them). On principle, I'm pretty steamed that he's yanking our chain like this. There were also accusations of unethical and un-christian behavior on our part, since we're no longer offering to come back for free and do the entryways once the city plows come by. Stuff like that makes me want to drop the contract completely. HOWEVER, my business advisers calmed me down enough to talk to an attorney. It's a good idea to have the contract reviewed by a pro anyways, but I'm still mad about the reason we have to do it.


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## Stroke_this (Oct 14, 2013)

So you changed your contract after 3 years and expect them to just sign it ,and when they send a revision back to you,you get your panties in a bunch about it. Seems like you to should sit down face to face and work through it. Contracts are always a negotion.


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

I get your point, but its not that simple. There's a few other things going on behind the scenes that add to the negativity of the situation. I'm just wondering if anyone else has dealt with something similar. Also, we were at a 100% success rate with this new contract before this happened, meaning it had been problem free until now.


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Why did you plow before the contract was signed?


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

Couple of reasons:

The businesses need it plowed to open their lots. Also, who looks like the bad guy to the 50 properties on the alley if it's snowing and no one can get out of the alley? We do.


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Seems as though youve got a mess on your hands. In the future dont plow unless you have a signed contract in your hands stating your responsibilities and do exactly that. Let us know how everything turns out.


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## Laszlo Almasi (Feb 11, 2006)

Mick76;1700142 said:


> Seems as though youve got a mess on your hands. In the future dont plow unless you have a signed contract in your hands stating your responsibilities and do exactly that. Let us know how everything turns out.


I agree with Mick. I'm guessing you didn't get your contract out early enough for all to see and sign as well perhaps?


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

The client received it a month before the start date listed on the contract. 

The attorney said that both contracts would be fine in a court of law, and he doesn't have a problem with us signing either of them (not the advice I expected!). I'm waiting on some final advice from him, and then I'll decide what to do. Looks like it's going to boil down to how to best manage the client-contractor relationship, since both contracts are OK.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

Your gut says do not sign it then you do not sign it. Lawyers are mistake proof. When there is a trail one always loses.

Though we do not know what he did not like about your contract or you do not like about his. Leaving out key facts makes it impossible to offer good advice.


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

True. Mostly what the client objected to was the removal of ourselves from damage liability; he also flipped the language that said "Customer shall defend all suits and claims arising from or incidental to the work under the Agreement, without expense or annoyance to the Contractor or its employees", so now we're the ones that are supposed to defend him against all suits and claims without expense and annoyance. As far as I know, this is totally standard practice in the business world (to perform work and have the client sign a damage waiver form). Heck, when I helped out with kids ministries in our church, we would have the parents sign a waiver sheet whenever we would go to a theme park, ski hill, etc. This is also where the client starts informing me that I'm unethical for not taking on this liability. 

The lawyer says I'll be fine by signing the clients contract, but I need to think about this some more.


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## rsweeper (Nov 25, 2010)

If you have a contract that you wrote and are happy with, then you just tell the customer that your contract is what you require to be signed. And you wont sign there contract. It is standard practice for whoever wrote the contract to want the other to hold them harmless and insure the other. If you have insurance (which im sure you do) it is simple, you name the customer as additional insured with the following added to it (ONLY IN SO FAR AS YOUR WORK IS CONSIRNED) Then when they try to have you cover someother accident, you just tell them, sorry it didnt have anything to do with our services. Believe me,,,,add those words to your additional insureds. They love to try and pass the buck to your insurance to get your insurance to pay all claims.


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## Meezer (Apr 3, 2010)

starspangled6.0;1713123 said:


> This is also where the client starts informing me that I'm unethical for not taking on this liability.
> 
> The lawyer says I'll be fine by signing the clients contract, but I need to think about this some more.


When the client re-writes my contract & sends it back to me that is a major red flag for me.

Then on top of that if they accuse me of being unethical, they are on the road to being a former client.

From what you posted, I would go with my gut instinct which would be NFW.


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

Update:

Talked again with the attorney today. His ruling on this is that we're on OK legal standing with either contract, but it's up to me if I want to accept the additional liability that this guy's contract puts on us (guess what my gut is telling me on that one???). I'm going to talk one more time with a business adviser to get his opinion on it, but I doubt the path I choose will be popular with the client. Not too worried about that though.


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

Update:


Client was re-sent contract again, with lengthy explanation that legal adviser had given us the go-ahead to continue to use our contract. We also explained that since he has waited until this long to take action regarding the contract, we requested it signed within 7 business days. He waited 4 days to reply, and then sent another email to us. It made absolutely no reference to the email we had sent him, and instead he attached 2 copies of last year's contract, explaining that since I signed it last year, that meant it was good enough for this year, and he asked that I sign it again. I re-explained to him that signing any contract other then what we offered this year wasn't an option, and that if he wasn't going to sign it, we'd offer it to another client who would. Deadline passed, still no response, and now the contract is awaiting another client's signature. 

Strange thing was, on this last storm (1.18.14), someone had plowed 60% of the alley before we arrived. Their quality was quite questionable, and they didn't do a complete job by any standards. Hopefully this doesn't get any messier then it is...


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

Messier ? Sounds like you lost it. But now people probably still think you are the one doing it and to blame.


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## Meezer (Apr 3, 2010)

DodgeBlizzard;1730031 said:


> Messier ? Sounds like you lost it. But now people probably still think you are the one doing it and to blame.


I would agree that you probably lost the account.


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

I would disagree. The residents of the alley haven't paid for 15 years (the 4 businesses on the alley sponsor the whole thing), and we've already gotten paid for the year. Not sure who would come up with the money, especially since most of the residents on the alley are extremely happy with us. That's a small issue, though; the contract is tiny- only $400 for the year, and we only do it since we plow for the businesses on the alley. I'm just sticking it out for principle and to keep ourselves in good standing with the businesses at this point.


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## Meezer (Apr 3, 2010)

starspangled6.0;1730408 said:


> I would disagree. The residents of the alley haven't paid for 15 years (the 4 businesses on the alley sponsor the whole thing), and we've already gotten paid for the year. Not sure who would come up with the money, especially since most of the residents on the alley are extremely happy with us. That's a small issue, though; the contract is tiny- only $400 for the year, and we only do it since we plow for the businesses on the alley. I'm just sticking it out for principle and to keep ourselves in good standing with the businesses at this point.


Ok, I'm a little confused here:

You've already gotten paid for the year, yet the last storm you had someone else had plowed the alley before you arrived???


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

Sort of. Here's the status:


We've gotten paid.
No one has signed a contract.
We've taking care of it the whole plowing season.
On this last storm, we got there later then usual, and someone had done a craptastic job of plowing a portion of the alley.
We've had zero feedback from anyone on the alley, indicating that they've hired someone else.


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## goel (Nov 23, 2010)

So the residents who pay nothing are happy. Not supprised with that one. 

Your so late in the season your talking next year now. Can't really see all 4 businesses signing with you next year due the issues.


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## ColliCut (Dec 22, 2013)

Interesting situation. I appreciate you sharing so we can learn from it. As far as the last storm goes, could've been anyone... I live in an HOA where our snow removal is taken care of to the doorstep. However, when I leave to go do my work, I typically plow my way out just to help my neighbors, since our snow contractor usually arrives pretty late.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Ill drop my plow sometimes just to get through going somewhere.

also could have been a car stuck and someone with a plow pushed past them and then helped get them on the clean path...wasnt their problem to finish the job and they moved on


btw, could you clue us into some of these 'major' changes?


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

Sorry it took so long to reply. Work is totally nuts... every year I say, "Can't wait for winter- then I can catch up on sleep!". Like that's ever going to happen!

Anyways, we had a 2" powder the other day, and I got to the alley at 4 or 5 AM. No signs of anyone plowing the alley, which was a good thing. The client has dropped off the face of the earth, and hasn't responded to our offer to give the contract to another resident on the alley. Our office admin is going to check with the new client and see what the status is on the contract next week.


What we went with last year wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. All it had was what we're going to plow, what we'll be paid, and terms that covered what to do if the contract was canceled. That's it. 1 page, a few paragraphs, and 2 signatures. Nothing about liability, insurance, lawsuits, cleanup fees, who's responsible for monitoring the jobsite, etc. This year, we've got every ounce of the scope of work covered, as well as who's liable for what (we excuse ourselves from all liability, customer agrees to indemnify\protect us from lawsuits, etc). Our attorney gave it his stamp of approval. Only had one client balk at that portion, but after he inquired with his legal team, he signed it with no problem. This is where it gets messy, since the alley client wanted to tell me I wasn't behaving according to his interpretation of the Bible (should I tell him about how we're big supporters of Project Evergreen????), and that I needed to get in line and sign his contract.


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## Meezer (Apr 3, 2010)

starspangled6.0;1734365 said:


> This year, we've got every ounce of the scope of work covered, as well as who's liable for what (we excuse ourselves from all liability, customer agrees to indemnify\protect us from lawsuits, etc). Our attorney gave it his stamp of approval. Only had one client balk at that portion, but after he inquired with his legal team, he signed it with no problem. This is where it gets messy, since the alley client wanted to tell me I wasn't behaving according to his interpretation of the Bible (should I tell him about how we're big supporters of Project Evergreen????), and that I needed to get in line and sign his contract.


So this goof is accusing you of being unethical for presenting a new & improved contract???


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## Meezer (Apr 3, 2010)

starspangled6.0;1734365 said:


> This is where it gets messy, since the alley client wanted to tell me I wasn't behaving according to his interpretation of the Bible (should I tell him about how we're big supporters of Project Evergreen????), and that I needed to get in line and sign his contract.


Ahh,,,,,, the bible. Cool..... Run this one by him:

*Leviticus 19:11*

"You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; you shall not lie to one another​


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

LOL yeah I might just do that. But seriously, life is just too short to let stuff like this get under your craw. It used to bother the crap out of me, but not anymore.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Meezer;1734564 said:


> So this goof is accusing you of being unethical for presenting a new & improved contract???


Stop doing his portion of the work, don't plow the snow in the alley RIGHT in front of his business.


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## 32vld (Feb 4, 2011)

tpendagast;1735069 said:


> Stop doing his portion of the work, don't plow the snow in the alley RIGHT in front of his business.


I do not know who owns the alley/road.

If it is the person you have been dealing with then walk away.

Personally I would be done with that customer.

Though if it is a common area for all the other businesses why not deal directly with the other customers and just not service him?

Time to fish or go home. He will not sign your contract.


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## SnoFarmer (Oct 15, 2004)

major revisions= no contract.

What does religion(Christianity) have to do with snow plowing?

He's trying to play a guilt card using religion?

No contract, no service, and religion doesn't play a role in your service.
well unless your praying for the snow to go away...
Give the money back and walkaway.....


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

He used to go to my church for a number of years, so that's the reason for the manipulation with the Bible. I certainly have no problem discussing my faith with anyone and everyone, but when it comes time to do business with someone, the kind of tactics he used have no place in the discussion. 


We have offered the contract to another client on the alley. Got another 2" last night, and didn't see any signs of any rogue competitors plowing our territory.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

starspangled6.0;1735377 said:


> He used to go to my church for a number of years, so that's the reason for the manipulation with the Bible. I certainly have no problem discussing my faith with anyone and everyone, but when it comes time to do business with someone, the kind of tactics he used have no place in the discussion.
> 
> We have offered the contract to another client on the alley. Got another 2" last night, and didn't see any signs of any rogue competitors plowing our territory.


He USED to go to your church, does that mean he's no longer christian? 
Tell him you aren't either, that you've found ALLAH and he only honors, blood, money and signed contracts!


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

Looks like it's all resolved. Talked to client B today, who we also plow for and who we offered the alley contract to. All is well on their end (except we've been over-salting their sidewalks  ), and they will have the alley contract in the mail ASAP. They even said next year won't be a problem, and they're willing to pay extra to have us come do some extra cleanup work on the alley. Oddly enough, they first talked to Client A (the one who has started the whole mess) about the whole thing, and I guess he didn't try to persuade them to stay away from us.


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## Meezer (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm glad it worked out for you in the endThumbs Up


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## locqus (Dec 13, 2013)

Gah. I have had a few try to "revise" our terms as well. I think you did the right thing giving it to legal, they will handle it properly. Maybe call him within a day of a storm and advise that you might not show up unless your original is signed? A little hard ball, or go to the tenants individually.


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## Oxmow (Dec 6, 2006)

I have read this twice and I am still confused...Does client A own the building (one) that all four businesses are in? or does he own one building out of four? How is it possible that you could disregard client A and have client B sign? Sounds like you couldn't get Walmart to let you plow and went across the street to BestBuy and had them sign a contract to let you plow Walmart?!? 

WHO paid you and why aren't THEY signing the contract? And if it was ONE of four you are plowing how can they sign for the others?


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