# How fast you can you spread salt or de-icer?



## Weeded! (Nov 13, 2009)

Do you look for how fast your spreader can get salt or de-icer on a lot?

We have a number of 100K to to 900K ft lots and I am looking to get the material down as fast as possible and get on to the next location.

Any information you can share would be great...


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## csi.northcoast (Aug 7, 2010)

it sdepends on the truck, we have several "city sized salt trucks that can really "dish out " the salt .. it i turn up the aiuger and spinner it can spread a path 60 -80 wide .of course you can't do that with car/people in the lot or you will be arrested for what we can machine gunning folks


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## Weeded! (Nov 13, 2009)

sbg4024;1067257 said:


> it sdepends on the truck, we have several "city sized salt trucks that can really "dish out " the salt .. it i turn up the aiuger and spinner it can spread a path 60 -80 wide .of course you can't do that with car/people in the lot or you will be arrested for what we can machine gunning folks


So how much salt can you put out how fast (how many minutes per ton?).


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## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

Any size spreader is going to put down 100 pounds of salt pretty quickly. The lot though is want determines how fast you can spread salt. Depends on obstacales, cars, and so on. I understand the thought process of getting in and out quickly, but you have to remember it's not a race. Accidents are much harder to avoid when you are rushed all the time trying to move to the next lot. If you feel you need to get in and out that quickly you need to get more equipment, and more operaters. I am not in any way saying you should take your time and slack off, but in a large snow storm that last for 12 to 24 hours, if your rushed to get through your lots normally, you are going to be accident bound since you will be there for 30 to 36 hours straight.


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## Weeded! (Nov 13, 2009)

Rc2505;1067264 said:


> Any size spreader is going to put down 100 pounds of salt pretty quickly. The lot though is want determines how fast you can spread salt. Depends on obstacales, cars, and so on. I understand the thought process of getting in and out quickly, but you have to remember it's not a race. Accidents are much harder to avoid when you are rushed all the time trying to move to the next lot. If you feel you need to get in and out that quickly you need to get more equipment, and more operaters. I am not in any way saying you should take your time and slack off, but in a large snow storm that last for 12 to 24 hours, if your rushed to get through your lots normally, you are going to be accident bound since you will be there for 30 to 36 hours straight.


I appreciate the concern, but the advice is off target.

If I drive an average of 3 miles per hour through a large lot I can cover 493,000 square feet of area with a 30 ft wide spread. 4 MPH would be 657,000 sq feet per hour. Still reasonable speed. I am looking to spread de-icer at these speeds without having to double and triple back.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

Weeded!;1067224 said:


> Do you look for how fast your spreader can get salt or de-icer on a lot?
> 
> We have a number of 100K to to 900K ft lots and I am looking to get the material down as fast as possible and get on to the next location.
> 
> Any information you can share would be great...


about salt and sand

You have to understand that its not the spreader or the forward speed..

Its how accurately the spreader is calibrated which is the measured discharge over time
consumed to discharge the material..

If you have a spinner spreader its discharging as fast as it can rotate as long as power is applied to the spinner (with a regulating gate on the hopper iif it has one)

What you have to do is buy a card board box large enough to capture the material coming out of the spreader and weigh it while itis discharging over a one minute period and then you can determine the application rate per acre.

The issue of vehicles on the lots is the other issue that affects spreading rates
as the automobiles will reduce the square area of coverage.

The problem with large spinner spreaders is they waste material even with the shrouds as salt is inconsistant in volume and due to the weight of the salt dust fines which may be 
up to thirty percent of the total weight.

Solar salt does not have this problem as it is washed with a salt water bath rinse to remove the dust and fines.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

You can pick your speed and set your spreader accordingly. Open the gate more if you want more to come out. If you have a hydraulic spreader you should be able to change the auger and spinner speeds separately. If you have a gas spreader then the auger and spinner are on one switch. To spread more salt you open the gate. So if you want to drive 10 MPH then open the gate all the way. I would think you could spread 1 ton of salt with the gate open all the way in 10 minutes.


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## ff610 (Jan 9, 2009)

leon;1067285 said:


> about salt and sand
> 
> You have to understand that its not the spreader or the forward speed..
> 
> ...


Pretty close. I would advise taking the spinner off, place a garbage can, box, bucket, or whatever to catch the salt under the spreader and run it at the different speeds for 1 minute each weighing after each. Don't forget to weigh the container empty first and subtract! Once you calibrate the spreader, you can figure out how much you wanna salt per acre and adjust your truck speed accordingly to each level. SIMA had a good class on this this year!


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## Weeded! (Nov 13, 2009)

*I am not sure I was clear*

I know the the rates at which de-icer comes out of my spreaders.

What I am looking to do is get it to be spread quicker.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

How can you get it any quicker then the fastest it comes out of your spreader? Or can you not drive fast enough to spread it at your fastest rate.


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

Step on the gas


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

..........


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## VIPHGM (Aug 10, 2010)

at a good 5 - 7 mile an hour pace with the auger up and the spinner at half speed to lay a thick amount per square foot with a average 2 car lane i can lay about 3 tons in under 15 minutes... but that doesn't help if i have to stop and go and re load and start again, a good medium to fast pace auger with a medium speed spinner will allow me to cover more acreage / product spread ratio instead of dumping it all out as fast as possible and not being able to cover your complete site. You have to match your forward speed with the amount of salt per lb or amount that is coming out, i could drive 30 but if my auger cant keep up with that then it does me no good, focus on product thickness at a good melting speed so you dont have to waste your time and re salt again if your not getting paid for it


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

Maybe he is asking which spreaders dump it out the fastest? Like Hydraulic, gas, electric, tailgate, etc...?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Weeded!;1067382 said:


> I know the the rates at which de-icer comes out of my spreaders.
> 
> What I am looking to do is get it to be spread quicker.


Spread quicker? Increase the speed of the spinner?
Increase volume to the spinner?-- If its a v-box you would have to change the gear ratio of the gear box to make the conveyor chain run faster.

So you want to be able to drive faster and lay more salt down?


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## Weeded! (Nov 13, 2009)

Kubota 8540;1067623 said:


> Spread quicker? Increase the speed of the spinner?
> Increase volume to the spinner?-- If its a v-box you would have to change the gear ratio of the gear box to make the conveyor chain run faster.
> 
> So you want to be able to drive faster and lay more salt down?


Yes. I really don't need to drive that faster, but I need to lay more salt /de-icer quicker.

I would like to know what spreaders put out the quickest, and has anyone ever modified anything (specifically a tailgate spreader) to get out more material per minute.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Weeded!;1067668 said:


> Yes. I really don't need to drive that faster, but I need to lay more salt /de-icer quicker.
> 
> I would like to know what spreaders put out the quickest, and has anyone ever modified anything (specifically a tailgate spreader) to get out more material per minute.


What make/model are you looking to modify? I think more or less v-boxes are v-boxes no matter the brand, and would be modified in the same ways. I could tell you how to do that to the 3 point model I have on the Kubota. So, post the make model and maybe someone familiar with it can give you some suggestions?


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## Weeded! (Nov 13, 2009)

Kubota 8540;1067718 said:


> What make/model are you looking to modify? I think more or less v-boxes are v-boxes no matter the brand, and would be modified in the same ways. I could tell you how to do that to the 3 point model I have on the Kubota. So, post the make model and maybe someone familiar with it can give you some suggestions?


I have to buy some new equipment this year.
We ONLY spread with bags as we do not have enough events in this area to do bulk.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Man if you are only going to drive 3 or 4 mph, why do you want to know how you can dump as much salt as possible? Are you charging by the ton or what? At the speed, it doesn't matter if you can dump out a ton of salt... it's still going to take you the same amount of time to do the lot if you are going to drive the same speed. All you will be doing is putting down a heavier layer of salt, probably wastefully.


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## clydebusa (Jul 10, 2010)

snocrete;1067406 said:


> ..........


double


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Weeded!;1067745 said:


> I have to buy some new equipment this year.
> We ONLY spread with bags as we do not have enough events in this area to do bulk.


Well up front, I have never owned or used a tailgate spreader. Only bulk type spreaders. But Now that I think about it, the spreaders I have owned or looked at do not list a pound / acre or etc rating. They only list capacity?


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Your questions about spreaders. I run two electric spreaders. one is 1yard and the other is 1.5 yard. I also have a 2 yard 10hp gas spreader. When it comes down to speed and area spread by far the gas unit is faster and lay's down a larger spead pattern very even. I run bulk salt thru the two electics and sand and salt thru the gas.You can empty out the gas in less than 8 minutes with the gate at two 2" and even faster with bulk salt. The two electric units i have are half as fast as a gas unit there spread pattern maxs at 1.5 travel lanes. The benifits are it always starts and never runs out of gas. But it is slower.
You mention spreading i think bulk salt. there is no true way the detrim how many tons per minute. It all depends on lot conditions,traffic,and stuff in the way to drive around. Sometimes you just need to salt the runway and the cars will due the rest for you or you need to spread the whole aerea due to heavy icing or pack down. It goes along with the magic question how much salt due i need to use. my answer to all your questions is you may be over your head you may want to start a little smaller so you can figure out for your self about how long things take. In snowplowing speed is not your friend slow and steadly Will ALWAYS be your friend at the end of the day.
I have one question with 16 trucks and stuff you spread all your lots by hand???? How many events due you need salt for or plow.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

Sounds like you're wanting the performance of a gas v box out of a tailgate unit. I've seen new 8' v boxes listed for approx $3,000, fill it with bag salt and then you'll have more than enough adjustability and capacity.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

fireside I am not going to call you a liar but I have a hard time believing you can empty 2 yards in less then 8 minutes at 2". When we return we open the gate to the max and sit there for a few minutes and we aren't even full.

If you need a tailgate salter to empty quicker you will need to get one with a conveyor belt. The Air-flo MSS or Western and Fisher make one. There might be others but those are the one's I know. If you have to spread that much salt I don't know why you are using a tailgate model.

Any 2 yard gas motor with the gate open all the way will dump salt at a very fast rate.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

cet;1067816 said:


> fireside I am not going to call you a liar but I have a hard time believing you can empty 2 yards in less then 8 minutes at 2". When we return we open the gate to the max and sit there for a few minutes and we aren't even full.
> 
> If you need a tailgate salter to empty quicker you will need to get one with a conveyor belt. The Air-flo MSS or Western and Fisher make one. There might be others but those are the one's I know. If you have to spread that much salt I don't know why you are using a tailgate model.
> 
> Any 2 yard gas motor with the gate open all the way will dump salt at a very fast rate.


I run an iceway with a 18" convery chain they use the same chain as a 5-8 yard spearder. It designed to reduce bridging with the larger chain design


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

OK I have one of those also but it is on a 5 yard salter. They will dump salt quicker then a normal 2 yard one.


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

I dont think I understand the problem you're trying to solve.

I have 2 electric salt dogs. 2 gas conveyors. And 2 5 yard hydraulics.

Every one of them I can crank up from the in truck controls to blow out salt faster than I would ever need.

I mean dot trucks are salting at 40-50 MPH.

Usually my problem is they are shooting out too much. I never have a problem with too little.

So I definitely think im misunderstanding the question


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

I do not understand the need for speed. Any unit out there will put out material faster than is necessary at reasonable travel speeds. What kind of application rate are you trying to achieve?

Notice in the application chart below the highest recommended application is 600lbs per road mile which is approximately 20% more area then an acre (44,000 sg ft) . That application rate is for weather conditions of <0 degrees with snowfalling conditions rarely seen in your geographic region.

Take a Buyers saltdogg SHPE0750 for example. it is easy to bag fill while leaving room in the truck to carry another hopper full. It has a Material Flow/Output of; Salt, 2.2 cu. ft./minute; Salt/Sand, 1.3 cu. ft./minute. Spread width is variable from 5 to 38 feet. the unit holds 17.5499 cubic feet at struck volume so mathematically it will empty itself in around eight minutes. Then take into consideration that bagged salt weighs approximately eighty four lbs a cubic foot meaning you can crank out somewhere in the neighborhood of 175lbs a minute. At that rate you would need to travel at sixty miles a hour to maintain a recommended application rate of 150-200 lbs per road mile. I don't recommend traveling a that speed in parking lots. So unless you are over applying, costing yourself or your client more money then necessary and increasing the effect or plantings and the amount of salts and other chemicals added to the soil and waste water systems any full sized unit should handle your needs.

Most bagged materials are blends so applications rates drop as they are a more aggressive material then straight salt.


http://knowledge.fhwa.dot.gov/cops/hcx.nsf/All+Documents/FEAE245FF1FDD25F85256FF60045520B/$FILE/salt%20application%20rate%20chart%20-%20MnDOT.pdf


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## SnowMatt13 (Jan 8, 2003)

I agree with Basher's comment on speed....
Why speed through something? Spend the time do it right.

There's a book called "The Snowfighters Handbook" put out by the Salt Institue.
There is a spreader calibration table in there.

Also, one speed and one application rate will cover you in only SOME applications.
Different situations call for different applications: temperature change, percipitation type and rate, snow, ice, freezing rain, sunny or cloudy, night or day.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

I think I may understand the OP's question, and here's what I'll summize:

Tailgate spreader + bagged product + 900K lots - Does not equal speed.

You need to cut down on the "bag loading" in the parking lots. The only way I can think of to do this is to run something along the lines of a 1.5yd+ V-box. Fill it with bags pre-storm, or bulk, whatever you want. Just don't plan on filling it during the storm with bags (unless you can deal with "super-sacks" somehow) and being ultra productive.


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## deicepro (Mar 24, 2009)

jomama45;1068028 said:


> Tailgate spreader + bagged product + 900K lots .............


x2, why would you use bags on a 900k lot?:crying:


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt and parking lots*

A high speed material thrower or slinger convyeyor is the only way your going to physically acccomplish what you are attempting to do as it is still an algebra problem of time and speed..

A material thrower will require a 480 volt power source and and a slinger conveyor will require a larger hydraulic pump and a lot of backing with parked vehicles in the lot.

the other issue of wasted material is the still the same as you wil have even less control of the salt.


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

Weeded!;1067224 said:


> Do you look for how fast your spreader can get salt or de-icer on a lot?
> 
> We have a number of 100K to to 900K ft lots and I am looking to get the material down as fast as possible and get on to the next location.
> 
> Any information you can share would be great...


Helicopter.............


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## Nestech (Oct 6, 2006)

Snow-Ex just released a new spreader the 8550. Same specs as the 8500 but will empty "twice as fast" on the highest setting. This is done by a new "high flow" auger


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## Weeded! (Nov 13, 2009)

deicepro;1068039 said:


> x2, why would you use bags on a 900k lot?:crying:


We do not get enough events here to warrant getting bulk material stored on site or the cost of a V-box. I have not yet ruled it out, though. However, the forecast for this winter is not looking promising for spending money on bigger equipment. I have not even FOUND bulk salt delivery in the area (not that I looked too hard, but I did look).

To the "Why are you going so fast" posters: 4 miles per hour. That is my target average speed on these lots. At a 30 foot wide throw that is 657,000 sq ft covered per hour. I can walk 4 mph. I think this is pretty safe speed.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

SnowMatt13;1067995 said:


> There's a book called "The Snowfighters Handbook" put out by the Salt Institue.
> There is a spreader calibration table in there.
> 
> Also, one speed and one application rate will cover you in only SOME applications.
> Different situations call for different applications: temperature change, precipitation type and rate, snow, ice, freezing rain, sunny or cloudy, night or day.


I like this one issued by cornell university,

http://www.clrp.cornell.edu/workshops/pdf/snow_and_ice_control-web.pdf

and this one from the federal highway department

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/mopeap/mop0296a.htm

Note they both suggest using much less salt then is common and that pre-application requires much less material than post application..


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## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

basher;1068098 said:


> I like this one issued by cornell university,
> 
> http://www.clrp.cornell.edu/workshops/pdf/snow_and_ice_control-web.pdf
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting those articles Basher...Very Good reading.....Should be Required reading for many on here.....:salute:


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## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

Matson Snow;1068123 said:


> Thanks for posting those articles Basher...Very Good reading.....Should be Required reading for many on here.....:salute:


X's 2. Very good info. Thanks!


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*salt spreader saga continues*

I wonder if the same guy that told me salt water freezes wrote it?:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

But at minus six degrees farenheit salt water will freeze


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*parking lots and skid marks*



basher;1068296 said:


> But at minus six degrees farenheit salt water will freeze


Actually it is referred to as an "Eutectic" Mixture; where the Celcius temperature of -21.1 and the salt begins to crystallise as NACL-2 H20 along with the ice until the solution completely freezes.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Thank you Mr. Wizard:salute:


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## FLC2004 (Aug 29, 2010)

snocrete;1067406 said:


> ..........





clydebusa;1067762 said:


> double


count me in on that...


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

I think some are missing the point here. It seems to me, he has a small or light duty tailgate spreader. Without spending anymore $$$$ on a new or bigger spreader he would like to modify what he has so that he gets a little more volume coming out of it. If he would post the model he has maybe someone will be familiar with it? And could actually Help?

Anybody using a tailgate spreader capable of spreading a 30' swath at 4 mph?


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*spreader saga continues*

the only way it can be done with a spinner is to add a second spinner below the first and allow it to run at twice the speed of the upper spreader with the same flow rates exiting the spreader using a diverter plate above the original spinner taking half the volume of the hopper.

The issue of clearances for the original spinner under the hopper and granual size is the other issue with equal importance.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Weeded!;1067668 said:


> Yes. I really don't need to drive that faster, but I need to lay more salt /de-icer quicker.
> 
> I would like to know what spreaders put out the quickest, and has anyone ever modified anything (specifically a tailgate spreader) to get out more material per minute.





Weeded!;1067745 said:


> I have to buy some new equipment this year.
> We ONLY spread with bags as we do not have enough events in this area to do bulk.


So you have lots that are 20 acres and your spreading them with bags and tailgate spreaders? If your spreading 400 lbs on 20 acres that equals 4 ton and the way your talking this is just one of your lots. Just out of curiousity how many acres do you plow and what is the distance between all these sites. Something is not adding up for me.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

JD Dave;1068913 said:


> So you have lots that are 20 acres and your spreading them with bags and tailgate spreaders? If your spreading 400 lbs on 20 acres that equals 4 ton and the way your talking this is just one of your lots. Just out of curiousity how many acres do you plow and what is the distance between all these sites. Something is not adding up for me.


X2 i got about half way throught his thread, and my brain started to hurt.

Some straight answers from the OP would be good

How large of a area are you spreading salt on? (and how are you doing said area with bag salt?)

What equipment have/do you use currently?


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

JD Dave;1068913 said:


> So you have lots that are 20 acres and your spreading them with bags and tailgate spreaders? If your spreading 400 lbs on 20 acres that equals 4 ton and the way your talking this is just one of your lots. Just out of curiousity how many acres do you plow and what is the distance between all these sites. Something is not adding up for me.


I was thinking the same thing but thought I would leave the can opening to someone else this time.


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

All I know is you're in central Virginia and LOTS and LOTS of salt goes through all parts of PA. Not that far really. I can sort of almost understand the mindset about using bags since you don't use much salt. But a 900,000 Sqft lot would take between 8-10 tons to salt in what I consider the proper fashion. Thats 400 bags.........thats filling a western 1000 tailgate unit about 40 times, and thats just not efficient. $1200 in material cost, then labor to open and dump all thos bags. Since a load here typically runs 22 tons, seems to me you'd be better off running a V or a tailgate replacement. Assume the driver get out loads up 10 bags,oving , lifting , dumping......I did 200 bags once, and will never do it again..........


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## bike5200 (Sep 4, 2007)

We do not get much snow so I can under stand equipment investment. Spreading salt fast, which means driving fast does not seam safe. I would rather drive a little slow and get it done right the first time and not worry about going back recovering missed spots. Remember you have to drive and watch the salt feed out the spreader. What happens if there is a issue with the salt not feeding in the spreader, driving fast, it might take a several yards before this is noticed . If you want to make up time look at plowing, this is where time can be lost. How may bags do you use on these lots and where do you store them? A ton of salt is a ton of salt weather bulk or bagged, bulk is a whole lot more cost efficient for big lots.


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## Weeded! (Nov 13, 2009)

buckwheat_la;1068943 said:


> X2 i got about half way throught his thread, and my brain started to hurt.
> 
> Some straight answers from the OP would be good
> 
> ...


Thanks Kubota, JD, Buckwheat, ( and JohnnyR)....

We covered over 3.5 million feet last year, ranging from 10K up to over 250K each. Our biggest this year is near 1 million ft.
We use a magnum 1075 tailgate spreader, western 1000 tailgate, and a "mini" spreader. We run them off dump trucks, loading as we drive.

Two of my subs have tailgate spreaders and run them off of pickups. Then of course we have a fleet of Lesco push spreaders for small lots and walks.

We have an area spanning about 50 miles from north to south and about 30 miles wide.

I need the tailgate spreaders to get more material out faster. As long as I am asking, is there a push spreader that has ONE LARGER hole that will dump material, rather than three small holes that clog an take forever to get material out?

The larger tailgate spreaders can put out up to 100 lbs per minute. This means it takes 10 minutes to do an acre.

Again, to the "you should be driving at a safe speed" posters... this is at 2 miles per hour. two.....miles......per.......h...o....u...r......r...... r. I'll try not to run into anything.

To the "Bulk Salt" posters... it is not more cost efficient when you may have ZERO events per year, maybe 2, maybe 6. Sites here don't have piles of salt delivered by contractors waiting to be used. Loaders don't sit on lots all winter as they do up north.


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