# Treating rock salt



## IA snoman (Aug 31, 2003)

Who out there treats there own salt? I just purchased some rock salt that is treated with Mag Chloride and is supposed to melt down to -15 I believe. I haven't tested that part of it yet but it does seem to melt and activate better that straight rock salt. I now am curious about treating my own salt for next season. Any tips, additional equipment needed, recomendations etc. would be great.

Thanks!


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

There are many companies that sell road guard or whatever blend of magic sauce...some is cal choride brine from oil wells, some has beet juice..some has secret sauce... Buy a 300g tote, and mix it yourself. We use reg road salt, some brine and when really cold...we pump some magic sauce out of tote, fill a few 5 gal pails and dump into a small pile of road salt, turning it over and drizzling in some more, turn it over again...mix only what you need for next application...takes 5 minutes to mix up 3-5 tons. For us, mixing the whole salt hut doesnt seem necessary, just mix for the next application when rock salt needs a boost. Sure there is a local supplier near you as the freight can be nasty. Some guys do a fancy pump and spray, we dummy it down and make it super simple and easy. Works for us.


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## IA snoman (Aug 31, 2003)

I like the idea of dummying it down. I often find myself looking at things that are way more expensive or complicated then they have to be. However I have no idea what magic sauce is. I also have no idea where to look for these products. Could you elaborate? Where do you get yours from? Is it colored, I do like spreading a colored product after using it. It makes it much easier to see.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

IA snoman said:


> I like the idea of dummying it down. I often find myself looking at things that are way more expensive or complicated then they have to be. However I have no idea what magic sauce is. I also have no idea where to look for these products. Could you elaborate? Where do you get yours from? Is it colored, I do like spreading a colored product after using it. It makes it much easier to see.


You can get beet juice in Chicago 
I think the smallest form is 275 gallon totes, you may be able to get it in pales/ barrels.

Magic sauce is just slang, for a chemical in the product they're not disclosing or disclosing discretely


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

There are so many brands of magic sauce,liquid snow shovel, road guard, blah blah. Seems most have some cal chloride, some corrosion inhibitors, etc. I dont claim to be an expert on any of it but if you find some of your local snow guys applying a coloured product (thats how we spell colour in the great white north).... ask them and find a local supplier. If you can find a supplier surely they can give you or sell you enough to fill a few 5 gal pails to mix up a few tons and give it a go. I was hesitant to waste the money to just make salt a pretty colour but it does seem to help a lot. Less salt, faster melt down, better residual effect.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I may have some insight.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

I did run exclusively treated salt for a couple seasons, and I agree with the less product per acre and residual assessment. The lower temp melting was where it made your sites shine though, definitely faster in lower temps. I wouldn’t want to store it for long periods, I always ended up with a puddle of the treat running out of the salt in the salt shed, I would buy 40tonne at a time and the top of the pile would get whiter as time went on. I just re mixed with the loader while loading the salter.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Mr.Markus said:


> I did run exclusively treated salt for a couple seasons, and I agree with the less product per acre and residual assessment. The lower temp melting was where it made your sites shine though, definitely faster in lower temps. I wouldn't want to store it for long periods, I always ended up with a puddle of the treat running out of the salt in the salt shed, I would buy 40tonne at a time and the top of the pile would get whiter as time went on. I just re mixed with the loader while loading the salter.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

I just put straight salt under the treated salt all the run off drains down into the untreated mix it whole pile is now treated


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## IA snoman (Aug 31, 2003)

BossPlow2010 said:


> You can get beet juice in Chicago
> I think the smallest form is 275 gallon totes, you may be able to get it in pales/ barrels.
> 
> Magic sauce is just slang, for a chemical in the product they're not disclosing or disclosing discretely


I was kinda picking up on that but there are some weird names for stuff so I wasn't positive. Other than Chicago I wonder where else I could find it. I am located in Iowa. Is there a chemical company that distributes it or is it come from snow removal outlets?


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## IA snoman (Aug 31, 2003)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I may have some insight.


Do tell!


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## IA snoman (Aug 31, 2003)

Mr.Markus said:


> I did run exclusively treated salt for a couple seasons, and I agree with the less product per acre and residual assessment. The lower temp melting was where it made your sites shine though, definitely faster in lower temps. I wouldn't want to store it for long periods, I always ended up with a puddle of the treat running out of the salt in the salt shed, I would buy 40tonne at a time and the top of the pile would get whiter as time went on. I just re mixed with the loader while loading the salter.


I did notice some of this as well.


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## IA snoman (Aug 31, 2003)

Here is another question. Would a liquid deicer work as a treatment for the rock salt? I would think so but not sure. I forgot there is a seller who tried to get me into liquid deicer but told him not interested at this time. I have reached out to them and I am waiting for a call back.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Do not treat bulk salt with salt brine. It wil turn rock. Hard and become useless.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

IA snoman said:


> Do tell!


Check your PMs.


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## J & A (Aug 3, 2009)

I was bored today and mixed up some 50/50 mag calcium dyed and sprayed some bulk salt didn't make too much going to put it to the test this week


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

heres my two cents in treating your own.

In Alaska we have to reinvent everything because we can't get it, basically there aren't enough people up here for companies to care about selling to us an the US pissed off Canada after 9/11 and customs for anything is a nightmare.
Couple that with heavy snow on the East coast and you would have to be jesse james to get a railcar over here anyway.

So with that in mind...

From what I understand, mix 5-7 gallons per ton.
Something (secret sauce as mentioned above) with sugary or "sticky" substance in it works better and prevents your "mix" from just puddling down below after sitting in storage for a bit.

Don't trust someone else's claims as to what their product works down too, they're often passing off air or ambient temp and the only thing that matters to you is pavement temp.

Im curious, why do you choose to treat the pile rather than have saddle tanks and treat as you apply?


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## J & A (Aug 3, 2009)

tpendagast said:


> heres my two cents in treating your own.
> 
> In Alaska we have to reinvent everything because we can't get it, basically there aren't enough people up here for companies to care about selling to us an the US pissed off Canada after 9/11 and customs for anything is a nightmare.
> Couple that with heavy snow on the East coast and you would have to be jesse james to get a railcar over here anyway.
> ...


I always treat at the spinner with saddle tanks I had just got bored and mixed up a few pails for a goof I do agree with all the different claims to fame with working temps and unfortunately the named liquids are sold by small landscapers that just jack up numbers so it's not even worth going down that road I stick to the real deal has worked very well for me for almost 15 years


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

J & A said:


> I always treat at the spinner with saddle tanks I had just got bored and mixed up a few pails for a goof I do agree with all the different claims to fame with working temps and unfortunately the named liquids are sold by small landscapers that just jack up numbers so it's not even worth going down that road I stick to the real deal has worked very well for me for almost 15 years


So the "named liquids" in you area all have dealers that are small landscapers?

I hear down there jus salt brine (no additives) is sold a $1 a gallon, is that true?


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## J & A (Aug 3, 2009)

tpendagast said:


> So the "named liquids" in you area all have dealers that are small landscapers?
> 
> I hear down there jus salt brine (no additives) is sold a $1 a gallon, is that true?


Well I have been quoted prices from .65 a gallon delivered for straight salt brine to 1.50 picked up 
Magic salt liquid I was quoted 2.95 plus tax picked up .
I make my own brine and run mag and or calcium chloride but like everyone else always looking to try experimenting with other stuff as long as the price is right which is usually never


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Anything over 5 gallons per ton is a waste. Unless you're trying to create a slurry.

Prewet systems aren't cheap. Also something else to maintain. Plus if you're running multiple trucks it just increases equipment costs. Doesn't reduce salt freezing in the bed/box either.


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

We have tried spraying liquid calcium chloride onto a small pile and loaded. Definitely worked just fine but very wet because no beet or carrots. A pre wet system would make this better. 

Now we just add cc pellets at 25#-50# per ton and load. Not messy and we can visually meter the mixing and spreading. We use Morton blue so it spacey looking mixed with white pellets. This mix works great, melts and dries lots quickly in low temps. $7-14 per ton bepending on how heavy mix is. 

Magic is around $500 a tote here so 5gal per ton is about $10. Never used it so I don’t have any input. The municipalities used to have it now they have clearlane for 15 deg or less. 

Some places have clearlane around here for proivate. Probably smarter for no extra handling but $25+ more per ton.


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Boy I loved clearlane but it's no long sold locally. It only came by rail car so they stopped selling it at the port. It worked far better than magic treated salt


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## J & A (Aug 3, 2009)

Ahh yes clear lane I used it for a few seasons no complaints except the location they wanted me to pull it from just wasn’t going to work now allot of highway Dept using it and availability is limited


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## fireside (Mar 1, 2008)

Yes most towns here use magic. City's up the Hartford way use clearlane but it's just to expensive to truck


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## BIG (Aug 23, 2014)

http://midwestsalt.com/newsitemws/product/mvp-liquid-deicer/

I bought 50 gallons of this and worked well for my application. Cost was $1.09 per gallon.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

J & A said:


> Well I have been quoted prices from .65 a gallon delivered for straight salt brine to 1.50 picked up
> Magic salt liquid I was quoted 2.95 plus tax picked up .
> I make my own brine and run mag and or calcium chloride but like everyone else always looking to try experimenting with other stuff as long as the price is right which is usually never


Re experimenting with other stuff (and this is strictly from Alaskan mad science here)
Apparently pickle juice is an effective booster 
It's brine in its own right but has properties similar to beet juice as well
I've only experimented with it at higher temps and haven't secured high quantities of it just yet, so it's just and oddity at the moment.

Also by product of beer making (leftover hopps) and cheese brine are also good supplements 
So if you happen to be near microbreweries or locates in Wisconsin those are things you can snag to try, in addition to molasses or beet juice


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## J & A (Aug 3, 2009)

tpendagast said:


> Re experimenting with other stuff (and this is strictly from Alaskan mad science here)
> Apparently pickle juice is an effective booster
> It's brine in its own right but has properties similar to beet juice as well
> I've only experimented with it at higher temps and haven't secured high quantities of it just yet, so it's just and oddity at the moment.
> ...


Yes I have heard that I'm still searching this area for something along those lines , I'm close to getting a lead on beat juice


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

J & A said:


> Yes I have heard that I'm still searching this area for something along those lines , I'm close to getting a lead on beat juice


yea?
Like How much of it?
Im just curious because Im wondering what kind of a source would have a lot of this stuff?
Not a lot of restaurants deal in tons of beets weekly.

I know if I still lived in idaho where I could get some.

Delis do seem to have ridiculous amounts of pickle juice they throw out.
If you hit up three or four of those you might get somewhere.

But I thought the micro brewery thing might be a goldmine, they just pour that stuff down the drain, its literally worthless to them.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

fireside said:


> Boy I loved clearlane but it's no long sold locally. It only came by rail car so they stopped selling it at the port. It worked far better than magic treated salt


It did?



tpendagast said:


> cheese brine


Had nothing but trouble when we tried that...too much water, not enough other stuff. Salt froze constantly. The vendor bought it back because I was so sick of it.


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## tpendagast (Oct 27, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> It did?
> 
> Had nothing but trouble when we tried that...too much water, not enough other stuff. Salt froze constantly. The vendor bought it back because I was so sick of it.


Good to know

People act like it's such a crazy secret 
It's like trying to find out what color underwater hitter was wearing when he declared war on Russia.

I suspect part of the "secrecy" is the part where they don't know jack either.

Everyone will tell you how great it works and refuses to tell you how.

It would be comical if it wasn't so frustrating.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Anything over 5 gallons per ton is a waste. Unless you're trying to create a slurry.
> 
> Prewet systems aren't cheap. Also something else to maintain. Plus if you're running multiple trucks it just increases equipment costs. Doesn't reduce salt feeding in the bed/box either.


Stupid phone...supposed to say "salt FREEZING" in the bed.


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## Charles (Dec 21, 1999)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Stupid phone...supposed to say "salt FREEZING" in the bed.


Ok now it does say that


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Charles said:


> Ok now it does say that


Thanks Charles...I don't care what Michael says aboot you, you're OK.


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