# Tranny Interchange Question



## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

I have a '95 2500 series with a 4L60 4x4. I heard there are certain years that will not work correctly with the computor. Any insight?
Also If I were to update this into a 4L80 what do I need to look for or do?


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

Also would an older 700r trans interchange into the 4l60?


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

From what I remember (it has been a few years) the 4L60 and the 700R4 are the same unless it is the 4L60E version.

Wait to see what B&B says though.


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

terrapro;1026951 said:


> From what I remember (it has been a few years) the 4L60 and the 700R4 are the same unless it is the 4L60E version.
> 
> Wait to see what B&B says though.


What does the E designate and is it determined/indentified on the tranny? Doesn't the 700 have a different pan configuration?


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## terrapro (Oct 21, 2006)

Stan;1026957 said:


> What does the E designate and is it determined/indentified on the tranny? Doesn't the 700 have a different pan configuration?


E for electronic.

Check out this link...
http://www.nastyz28.com/chevy-transmission-identification.php


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## Sydenstricker Landscaping (Dec 17, 2006)

88-92 is when the TH700R4/4L60 was used in the 1/2 ton and light duty 3/4 ton trucks. 88-91 was the TH400 trans in the 2500 and 3500 trucks. Then in 91-92 gm came out with the 4L80E for the 3/4 and one ton trucks. 1993-up they use the 4L60E in the 1/2 and light duty 2500 trucks. The E is for electronic I believe. Is your 95 2500 the light duty six lug version, or does it have the 8 lug axles?? Six lug will be the 4L60E and 8 will be the 4L80E. And you can swap the 60E out for the 80E, just would take some wiring, and some other stuff. Im sure B&B will chime in with more info


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

terrapro;1026971 said:


> E for electronic.
> 
> Check out this link...
> http://www.nastyz28.com/chevy-transmission-identification.php


Good link, thanks. How do you actually determine if the unit is electronic? The truck has TBI so I am assuming it probably is?


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

Sydenstricker Landscaping;1026981 said:


> 88-92 is when the TH700R4/4L60 was used in the 1/2 ton and light duty 3/4 ton trucks. 88-91 was the TH400 trans in the 2500 and 3500 trucks. Then in 91-92 gm came out with the 4L80E for the 3/4 and one ton trucks. 1993-up they use the 4L60E in the 1/2 and light duty 2500 trucks. The E is for electronic I believe. Is your 95 2500 the light duty six lug version, or does it have the 8 lug axles?? Six lug will be the 4L60E and 8 will be the 4L80E. And you can swap the 60E out for the 80E, just would take some wiring, and some other stuff. Im sure B&B will chime in with more info


Great info, thanks. I may have a super deal on a 4l80E. If I was driving the truck myself I'd use the 60. As a matter if fact I have a 1994 k-1500 blazer plowing since 2001. Almost @ 150K with original tranny. I wonder how bad the the wiring may be for the convert.


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

The 4L60E should have more wiring than the standard 4-pin square plug on the LH side above the pan (controls the lockup convertor on the 700R4/4l60).

I also have a 4L60E here from a '99 4x4 Jimmy, and it has a removable bellhousing. Not sure if they all do. Never seen a non-E with that before.

I *suspect* that anything beyond a 92 or 93 should be an E unit...


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

Google is a good friend. Think I'll just stick with the 4l60e. Way too much BS to be involved with. The only other question I may have are the year changes for electronic reasons. What year 4l60e's will be good to go with a 1995? Seems everywhere I look I find three differant answers


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

*In the event someone is researching a swap, here ya go:*
Here's the deal. Your biggest decision, at least my biggest decision was on how to control the thing. Basically you have two options. You either get a PCM from a 350/4L80E truck and then add the wires for the Input Speed Sensor (which I'm told you will need for 4 low operation) or dive into Do It Yourself tuning and stay with the 350/4L60E program and turn a bunch of crap off such as the 3-2 and TCC PWM solenoid diagnostics so that codes don't set. You would also have to input the correct trans ratios and modified shift points and TCC settings into the 4L60E program like I did to make it work in this way. Also using the 4L60E programming you will need to install a relay inline on the shift solenoid B circuit to invert its signal. Shift solenoid B works opposite 4L60E to 4L80E. Also the 3-2 solenoid wire needs to be pinned to a dumby cavity in the connector along with the PWM wire.

Now then on my 2wd it was basically a direct swap aside from the cooler lines and having to change my exhaust a little. I was even able to keep the stock driveshaft, only doing a yoke swap for the bigger 4L80E output shaft. In your case you will need either a transfer case from a truck with a 4L80E or just the transfer case input shaft from a 4L80E truck. I'm not sure on the cross member but I would imagine the holes are all there and you would just need to slide it back. Then change your driveshafts accordingly. Really its not a bad swap mechically speaking but the biggest problem on the OBS is figuring out how you want to control it.

Two other options are you can go with an aftermarket stand alone transmission controller but they are big money. The other option is you can make a TCM (transmission control module) out of a 16197427 (that would be your PCM). Basically you have to provide it with power, ground, vehicle speed, engine speed, MAP and TPS readings and then disable all engine related diagnostics and so on. This will then provide it with the needed info to control the transmission and then just run your wires from it to the transmission. You would have two PCMs then, one controlling your engine and then one thats acting as a TCM to control the transmission. 
Source:
http://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/showthread.php?t=436203


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

derekbroerse;1027201 said:


> I also have a 4L60E here from a '99 4x4 Jimmy, and it has a removable bellhousing. Not sure if they all do. Never seen a non-E with that before.


Removable bell housings started in the '97 model year across the line.



Stan;1027209 said:


> *In the event someone is researching a swap, here ya go:*
> Here's the deal. Your biggest decision, at least my biggest decision was on how to control the thing. Basically you have two options. You either get a PCM from a 350/4L80E truck and then add the wires for the Input Speed Sensor (which I'm told you will need for 4 low operation) or dive into Do It Yourself tuning and stay with the 350/4L60E program and turn a bunch of crap off such as the 3-2 and TCC PWM solenoid diagnostics so that codes don't set. You would also have to input the correct trans ratios and modified shift points and TCC settings into the 4L60E program like I did to make it work in this way. Also using the 4L60E programming you will need to install a relay inline on the shift solenoid B circuit to invert its signal. Shift solenoid B works opposite 4L60E to 4L80E. Also the 3-2 solenoid wire needs to be pinned to a dumby cavity in the connector along with the PWM wire.
> 
> Now then on my 2wd it was basically a direct swap aside from the cooler lines and having to change my exhaust a little. I was even able to keep the stock driveshaft, only doing a yoke swap for the bigger 4L80E output shaft. In your case you will need either a transfer case from a truck with a 4L80E or just the transfer case input shaft from a 4L80E truck. I'm not sure on the cross member but I would imagine the holes are all there and you would just need to slide it back. Then change your driveshafts accordingly. Really its not a bad swap mechically speaking but the biggest problem on the OBS is figuring out how you want to control it.
> ...


You just saved me a whole ton of typing Stan.  It's certainly do-able but not cost effective. And '95's are the toughest year to swap as they're sort of all their own animal.


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

B&B;1027300 said:


> Removable bell housings started in the '97 model year across the line.
> 
> You just saved me a whole ton of typing Stan.  It's certainly do-able but not cost effective. And '95's are the toughest year to swap as they're sort of all their own animal.


So a 4l60e from a 94 or 96 up will not be cost effective? I just lost out on a CL truck w/a rebuilt tranny from a 95 3500. Also from what I had gathered and I didnt know is the 700r4 is actually a 4l60 non E tranny, correct?


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

FYI to others I found great GM link thats quite usefull:
http://service.gm.com/dealerworld/vincards/pdf/vincard95.pdf vin decoder
scroll down to the bottom of this and click to what your after:

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/PartsAccessories/Transmissions.jsp


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Stan;1027467 said:


> So a 4l60e from a 94 or 96 up will not be cost effective? I just lost out on a CL truck w/a rebuilt tranny from a 95 3500. Also from what I had gathered and I didnt know is the 700r4 is actually a 4l60 non E tranny, correct?


A 60E from a '94 will but not a '96-newer without extra mods. When I referenced to '95's being all their own it meant not just the trans but many other things on the truck too such as the ECM, wiring, electricals layout on and on and on. It's due to the last year of OBDl and the transition over to OBDII. Not just a GM thing either by any means.

A '95 K3500 would have an 80E, not a 60E so unless you were wanting to do the involved upgrade wouldn't have done you any good. So no real loss there otherwise.

A 4L60 and it's father the 700R4 are very very similar and most of their components will directly interchange as they're basically the same trans, the 4L60 was just the "newest" version of the 700 before they went to the full electronics of the 4L60E starting in '93.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Stan - is your transmission gone, or were you just looking to upgrade?


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

B&B;1027470 said:


> A 60E from a '94 will but not a '96-newer without extra mods. When I referenced to '95's being all their own it meant not just the trans but many other things on the truck too such as the ECM, wiring, electricals layout on and on and on. It's due to the last year of OBDl and the transition over to OBDII. Not just a GM thing either by any means.
> 
> A '95 K3500 would have an 80E, not a 60E so unless you were wanting to do the involved upgrade wouldn't have done you any good. So no real loss there otherwise.
> 
> A 4L60 and it's father the 700R4 are very very similar and most of their components will directly interchange as they're basically the same trans, the 4L60 was just the "newest" version of the 700 before they went to the full electronics of the 4L60E starting in '93.


So what I'll be searching for is a good 94 or 95 4l60e/4x4. From what I researched the trucks have a longer output shaft for the transfer case correct? Is there any differance on a tranny from a k series -vs-s-10? I'm speculating it may be because the truck I have is a 2500 6 lug.

The CL ad stated it was in fact a 4l60e but he could have been wrong. No way I'm going thru the mods w/a 4l80e...just not enough time.


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

2COR517;1027486 said:


> Stan - is your transmission gone, or were you just looking to upgrade?


This is what I am being told by the mechanic at the municapal. trk has 165K on its 2nd trans. I dont have possesion of the truck until next week but it is a done deal. By all means I'll confirm and scan the truck. The fluid didn't smell burnt so I may get off the hook but usually we're not so lucky. Got a killer deal on the 2 trks as a package so I look @ the 2500 as a free truck. Its not pretty but will do the job.


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

heres a pic


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Save yourself a ton of frustration and scrambling, and just have your transmission rebuilt. Then you know exactly what you have, and you have a warranty. The rebuild is not alot more money than the used transmission will cost you. You can still do your own R&R if you want.


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

Here's the other. 7.4, 4l80e, 4x4


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

2COR517;1027499 said:


> Save yourself a ton of frustration and scrambling, and just have your transmission rebuilt. Then you know exactly what you have, and you have a warranty. The rebuild is not alot more money than the used transmission will cost you. You can still do your own R&R if you want.


I thought of that also but need to keep my expenses down. These 2 will make a total of 7 plow trucks. I was planning on going thru the other trucks with paint and misc repairs in preparartion for 2010-11 season. I was planning to just insure the 2500 and have it sit on one of the larger private accounts.


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Used tranny has a 30 day warranty? And you don't plan to drive the truck very much for 6 or 8 months.....


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Stan;1027491 said:


> So what I'll be searching for is a good 94 or 95 4l60e/4x4. From what I researched the trucks have a longer output shaft for the transfer case correct?


 It needs to be from a 4X4 truck if you don't want to pay to have it disassembled for an output shaft change. And you want it from a full size truck rather than an S10 as they have less clutches and a few other minor differences internally that reduce their torque holding capacity.

If the intention is it's only to be used as a lot truck I would be afraid to install a used (but as low mileage as possible) unit if budget is a primary concern.


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

2COR517;1027717 said:


> Used tranny has a 30 day warranty? And you don't plan to drive the truck very much for 6 or 8 months.....


Used tranny from a bone yard probably would. Just haven't had much with luck with them. A few months back I helped someone do a R&R with a bone yard tranny. Went thru 3 installs before we got one to work. I'm actually searching CL for a running donor/part out.
The trk will only have maybe 3-4 months of use per year


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

B&B;1027729 said:


> It needs to be from a 4X4 truck if you don't want to pay to have it disassembled for an output shaft change. And you want it from a full size truck rather than an S10 as they have less clutches and a few other minor differences internally that reduce their torque holding capacity.
> 
> If the intention is it's only to be used as a lot truck I would be afraid to install a used (but as low mileage as possible) unit if budget is a primary concern.


This is what I assumed with the s-10's and knew you would have the answer...thanks. So in all 94 or 95 full size is what I want, correct?

I have a better idea, come on up here and I'll buy the beer and filet mignons and you can help me rebuild the old one?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Stan;1027750 said:


> This is what I assumed with the s-10's and knew you would have the answer...thanks. So in all 94 or 95 full size is what I want, correct?


Correct.



Stan;1027750 said:


> I have a better idea, come on up here and I'll buy the beer and filet mignons and you can help me rebuild the old one?


Incorrect. Burgers.


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

B&B;1027802 said:


> Correct.
> 
> Incorrect. Burgers.


Bubba burgers w/vidalia onions? DEAL!!!!


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

I went to school many moons ago to Denver Auto/Diesel but never applied the transmission side of education to anything. How difficult would a rebuild be with a manual? Just hate like hell to screw something up after its all bolted back into the truck.


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

If you've never done an auto trans before Stan I wouldn't recommend your first one to be a 4L60E. They're not the simplest one and do require some specialized tools to do the job correctly and without worry whether it'll work when you're done. For a first timer something like a T-350 would be much more appropriate as they're much more forgiving for minor mistakes and much simpler. One slight error on a 60E and you'll be removing and disassembling it again and again until it's perfect.


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## Stan (Nov 28, 2003)

B&B;1027925 said:


> If you've never done an auto trans before Stan I wouldn't recommend your first one to be a 4L60E. They're not the simplest one and do require some specialized tools to do the job correctly and without worry whether it'll work when you're done. For a first timer something like a T-350 would be much more appropriate as they're much more forgiving for minor mistakes and much simpler. One slight error on a 60E and you'll be removing and disassembling it again and again until it's perfect.


Exactly what I want to avoid. Thanks for all the good advice. Have you done them?


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## B&B (Nov 4, 2006)

Stan;1027938 said:


> Exactly what I want to avoid. Thanks for all the good advice. Have you done them?


Yes including most all the common GM transmissions over the years or else I wouldn't know that the 60E's can be a little unforgiving. Learned that the hard way many years ago.


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