# Gas vs Diesel



## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Apologies if this topic has been done to death but I was hoping to get opinions on gas vs diesel on a 350/3500 series truck. 
I am in the market to lease a newer truck... the truck will be used for snow plowing / salting in the winter and irrigation in the summer. Max it would have to pull is 5000 lbs. 
I have never plowed with a gas truck. I currently have three trucks in my fleet that are diesel. 
- 2005 F250 sick.0 superduty
- 2016 Ram 3500 Cummins
- 2014 F350 6.7 L diesel. 
I find that the issues I have with the newer diesels all result from the exhaust system (sensors malfunctioning, DEF heaters breaking down)
Oddly enough the sick.0 F250 runs well but it's being replaced due to rust.


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## SilverPine (Dec 7, 2018)

I plow with a ram 2500 5.7, its more than capable. With a full load of salt in it, I prefer to be in my duramax though.

That being said. The 6.4 hemi has me interested.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I can tell you as someone who has both... I have a diesel for my personal truck. Why... don't know? I have been purchasing gas trucks for my company just due to the raw fact that it don't make dollars so it don't make sense for me to buy diesels for the company.

When it comes down to dollars and cents, with the price of diesel and the lower MPGs on the new generation diesels, it will be hard re-coop the $10K wack for the diesel. Unless you are pulling a lot of weight or pushing snow every single day, getting the investment back will be very tough.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

To add to what Phil said the newer diesels can be very finicky and cost a lot more in repairs... Seems like someone's always complaining about their new Kummings with emissions issues...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

If you go with a gasser, get the lowest gear ratio available. 

I have a 6.4 with 3.73s and it sucks. And blows.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Thank you guys for your opinions. Great advice.


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## Drock78 (Sep 22, 2011)

I have a 6.4 gas with 4.10 gears and like it. A new one should have the 8sp trans and is even better yet.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> If you go with a gasser, get the lowest gear ratio available.
> 
> I have a 6.4 with 3.73s and it sucks. And blows.


Thinking of going chassis cab 6.4 with the Aisin transmission (apparently it's available on gasser chassis cab models) lowest gear ratio looks to be 3.42. Obv. Going to have to check with the sales manager. 
Currently running an electric salter (1.5 yard capacity)... would it make sense to get a PTO to be able to go hydraulic? Or do hydraulic salters only make sense when they are much larger?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Thinking of going chassis cab 6.4 with the Aisin transmission (apparently it's available on gasser chassis cab models) lowest gear ratio looks to be 3.42. Obv. Going to have to check with the sales manager.
> Currently running an electric salter (1.5 yard capacity)... would it make sense to get a PTO to be able to go hydraulic? Or do hydraulic salters only make sense when they are much larger?


No.... because the PTO on Aisins don't work while in motion. Only Furds do that right now.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> No.... because the PTO on Aisins don't work while in motion. Only Furds do that right now.


Gotcha, I'm guessing it doesn't work with the regular transmission as well? Also, I think I'm confused, 4.10 would be the lowest gear ratio correct? 3.42 would be the highest? Or flip those around?


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## Drock78 (Sep 22, 2011)

Yes. 4.10 lowest


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

We run gas pick ups and diesel medium trucks. 

6.0 Chevy 2500s w/4.10s work great for me in WI winters. 

Most of our repair time and money is in the diesels. About 90% lol. Always something. They however can get many many more miles than the gassers.

Neighbor runs all diesels and has a 2018 F550: Oil filter rusted thru and ran all the oil out. His F350 diesel blew out the freeze plugs. His cummins works great but the dodge body and electrical is a POS.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Gotcha, I'm guessing it doesn't work with the regular transmission as well? Also, I think I'm confused, 4.10 would be the lowest gear ratio correct? 3.42 would be the highest? Or flip those around?


4.10 is lower than 3.42

For every 1 turn of the ring gear the pinion will turn 4.10 times
as is 
For every 1 turn of the ring gear the pinion will turn 3.42 times


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> 4.10 is lower than 3.42
> 
> For every 1 turn of the ring gear the pinion will turn 4.10 times
> as is
> For every 1 turn of the ring gear the pinion will turn 3.42 times


Yea, I was getting confused with 'does more turns mean higher and less turns mean lower' ? But in terms of a ratio 1:4 is lower than 1:3. Thank you for the explanation.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Yea, I was getting confused with 'does more turns mean higher and less turns mean lower' ? But in terms of a ratio 1:4 is lower than 1:3. Thank you for the explanation.


Correct. The actual way that gear ratio is supposed to be said would be 4.10:1


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

cjames808 said:


> Neighbor runs all diesels and has a 2018 F550: Oil filter rusted thru and ran all the oil out. His F350 diesel blew out the freeze plugs. His cummins works great but the dodge body and electrical is a POS.


How does that happen to a oil filter?

Plugs blowing out?


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

1olddogtwo said:


> How does that happen to a oil filter?


It's an 18 not changing your earl for two years...


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

I am primarily a diesel guy. For the avg Joe, gas all the way. 

Nobody can believe I bought a gasser last month.


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## Kinport (Jan 9, 2020)

We bought our first gas motor plow truck (5.4 F250 with an 8.2 V) this fall. After using mostly diesels to plow I was worried I would hate it but have actually been pleasantly surprised. Fuel economy isn’t so far behind our diesels that I would really notice it(not true of the 460 F250 plow truck that my uncle owns and I occasionally run on the farm). It comfortably hauls 6000 lb trailers, and I did use it one time to move a 303.5 mini ex(about a 12000 lb load when you add the weight of the dump trailer) but that was not something it loved. All 3 of the newer gas motors your looking at have oodles more power than my truck, I think a gas motor will do everything you want and do it well. One other upside to mine(although this won’t necessarily be true for you with a new truck) is I can buy an entire replacement engine for the cost of a turbo and injectors in my diesels. So there’s that.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

Drock78 said:


> I have a 6.4 gas with 4.10 gears and like it. A new one should have the 8sp trans and is even better yet.


Same here, works great.

NYH1.


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## NYH1 (Jan 10, 2009)

1olddogtwo said:


> How does that happen to a oil filter?


Oil filter rusting; excessive and unethical salting perhaps? 

NYH1.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> Correct. The actual way that gear ratio is supposed to be said would be 4.10:1


Ah, ok. I understand.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Oh, but wait.....

Gassers are not allowed in the Kool Kid Club.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> Oh, but wait.....
> 
> Gassers are not allowed in the Kool Kid Club.


Haha, I run a salter with an auger and occasionally use a bucket to spread salt on walkways so I'm out anyway. The auger isn't the cool, new helix auger either.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> Oh, but wait.....
> 
> Gassers are not allowed in the Kool Kid Club.


Or you are referring to this rolling coal thing that is just ridiculous?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Or you are referring to this rolling coal thing that is just ridiculous?


Blasphemy!!!


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Haha, I run a salter with an auger and occasionally use a bucket to spread salt on walkways so I'm out anyway. The auger isn't the cool, new helix auger either.


As long as you run your tow mirrors up you're fine...


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

1olddogtwo said:


> I am primarily a diesel guy. For the avg Joe, gas all the way.
> 
> Nobody can believe I bought a gasser last month.


 Been 15 years or more since you had a Gasser. No? How are you a average Joe? No trailers or heavy plowing?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Fortunately I'm not at the point of buying another truck yet. I hate my 6.4 Hemi. 

The Eyesewe and Yogi both have the GM 6.0 and are very torquey. The Hemi with 3.73s basically sucks.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

FredG said:


> Been 15 years or more since you had a Gasser. No? How are you a average Joe? No trailers or heavy plowing?


Trade in my diesel super duty, for a race truck (Raptor).... (Hopefully this midlife crisis doesn't last more than a year.)

I haven't plowed commercially now in 2 years, I do is jump an Arctic equipment when needed.

I still have a plenty of company trucks at my disposal


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Or you are referring to this rolling coal thing that is just ridiculous?


I quit deleting trucks. I would buy a brand new super duty in the first thing I do is drop the DPF.

I was referring to the cool kids as the mom and pops at the malls with the diesels they don't need.

In my humble opinion, unless you're doing a lot of driving on a highway or heavy towing, you don't need a diesel, probably 80% of the pickup truck buyers, don't need a diesel.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> I quit deleting trucks. I would buy a brand new super duty in the first thing I do is drop the DPF.
> 
> I was referring to the cool kids as the mom and pops at the malls with the diesels they don't need.
> 
> In my humble opinion, unless you're doing a lot of driving on a highway or heavy towing, you don't need a diesel, probably 80% of the pickup truck buyers, don't need a diesel.


I agree. I remember when I bought the 2014 F350 6.7L diesel and the commercial sales manager saying to get the gas engine. At the time they had a promo on where the diesel engine was rebated back or something along those lines so it wasn't an extra 10K. I was / still kind of am green at the time and didn't consider the exhaust system being a problem. Or research too much into it. Hence the thread this time around.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

1olddogtwo said:


> I quit deleting trucks. I would buy a brand new super duty in the first thing I do is drop the DPF.
> 
> I was referring to the cool kids as the mom and pops at the malls with the diesels they don't need.
> 
> In my humble opinion, unless you're doing a lot of driving on a highway or heavy towing, you don't need a diesel, probably 80% of the pickup truck buyers, don't need a diesel.


I was just referring to the YouTube videos being ridiculous... the actual delete makes sense from a performance standpoint and a 'not having to repair the most expensive exhaust system ever created' one as well.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Of course...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Fourteen Contracting Inc. said:


> Of course...
> 
> View attachment 199793


Meh...no charge for the Cummings, but a $10k upcharge for the Aisin.


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## Fourteen Contracting Inc. (Jul 5, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Meh...no charge for the Cummings, but a $10k upcharge for the Aisin.


True


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

1olddogtwo said:


> How does that happen to a oil filter?
> 
> Plugs blowing out?


I'm guessing too tired to wash brand new trucks, I dunno. It happened and both were covered under warranty when you play dumb. And yea his freeze plug came loose and fell out letting coolant flow out all over.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

The horse's funeral was held a few years ago, so not sure what livestock is taking the beating now.

We had some 6.0/6L80/4.10's here. Last two were 2010's with 100k miles. There was a celebration when they left last spring.

We are all LML and L5P here now on the plow trucks. And I wouldn't go back.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

My 07 has been a fabulous diesel once I got past the dpf problems...when my new diesel comes I'm sure I'll go through the same learning curve. I've heard the new gassers are decent power wise but it's been a while for me and with the weight and mileage I do I don't think I'll regret the diesel.
When I switched I was just happy that the thing wasn't shifting down and reving up driving into the wind on the way home....you guys are a bunch of posers. You want the diesel, you need the diesel, you are just afraid to do it....


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

GMC Driver said:


> The horse's funeral was held a few years ago, so not sure what livestock is taking the beating now.
> 
> We had some 6.0/6L80/4.10's here. Last two were 2010's with 100k miles. There was a celebration when they left last spring.
> 
> We are all LML and L5P here now on the plow trucks. And I wouldn't go back.


I'd have a really hard time buying another new truck with a gas engine...emissions issues or not. I know part of it is the wrong gear ratio, but not having that weight while pushing heavy, wet snow or the low end torque for pushing or towing is a lot to get past. And I fully get the added cost to purchase, but I'm still not sure it isn't worth it.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'd have a really hard time buying another new truck with a gas engine...emissions issues or not. I know part of it is the wrong gear ratio, but not having that weight while pushing heavy, wet snow or the low end torque for pushing or towing is a lot to get past. And I fully get the added cost to purchase, but I'm still not sure it isn't worth it.


Can you run live pto off a gas?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Can you run live pto off a gas?


Doesn't matter, RAM doesn't have live PTO.


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Doesn't matter, RAM doesn't have live PTO.


Time to upgrade to fords...
Lol


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BossPlow2010 said:


> Time to upgrade to fords...
> Lol


Been there, done that. Dealers suck.

Still own 3 Furds. One I just bought this summer.


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I'd have a really hard time buying another new truck with a gas engine...emissions issues or not. I know part of it is the wrong gear ratio, but not having that weight while pushing heavy, wet snow or the low end torque for pushing or towing is a lot to get past. And I fully get the added cost to purchase, but I'm still not sure it isn't worth it.


He already owns three diesels... Don't see the need for another as he has a towing truck out of the three already...

But for snow I would buy gas with his fleet already... My 150-200k 5.4's will push just fine no need to have all kinds of torque of a diesel...

If someone has that much wet heavy snow down already they can't push they better get up earlier...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> If someone has that much wet heavy snow down already they can't push they better get up earlier...


K


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

So plowing "with the storm"? 

You're in lake effect country, you know what a fallacy that is, unless you only have 1 hour routes per piece of equipment.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

My 2004 E350 has 390K, it was a 5.4, more like a 5.5 now.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

1olddogtwo said:


> My 2004 E350 has 390K, it was a 5.4, more like a 5.5 now.


Not very hard on an engine hauling around puppies and free candy...


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## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> So plowing "with the storm"?
> 
> You're in lake effect country, you know what a fallacy that is, unless you only have 1 hour routes per piece of equipment.


You know a good flatulent will get rid of a couple inches of LE. And yes LE is a crap shoot for how long... A heavy wet system can be at least gauged for its timing somewhat.

I probably do stuff a bit backward as I don't have some big long route for my trucks I think four properties is tops. I had people calling saying they need plowed that last gem that was 3" between 4am and 9am ish. You were hit once and we'll be back shortly... Most sites I have dedicated manpower and they don't leave till its done snowing. I just don't want to be called saying we're under performing...

I am 75% diesel and if I had the choice would just go gas for another plow truck. Most likely due to expense, maintenance costs etc... The days of $1 cheaper a gallon diesel are over... But I also probably would not buy a brand spankin new gas truck either for a plow truck...

Plus every plow and spreader we own I have installed and have you ever tried finding a place for a solenoid and fat wiring harnesses under todays diesel hoods...


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Not very hard on an engine hauling around puppies and free candy...


LMAO


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## Kvston (Nov 30, 2019)

I own two Ram 2500's with 4.10 rears and 6.4 Hemi's. Buddy has a 2019 3500 CCLB cummins with same specs. He wins towing, I win in price and lower cost of ownership. He has the diesel for towing 14-16K loads often. I have a 3500 with a 5.9 common rail to do that.

If you aren't going over 5k on towing, go Hemi. Get the 4.10's. They flat out move snow fast. No DEF, no crazy sensor stuff like modern diesels. I have a 9.5 XV2 on one and a 8.5 HD2 fish on the other-one with 2 yard salter.


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

My 12000 lb gas dump has loads of power .I saved 10 k over the diesel model ,save on gas compared to diesel $ ,still got the bullet proof allision. Tow 15k all day long. But unless you have a time machine this mighty 8.1 496 is just a thing of the past.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

8.1 our gas stations aren’t close enough together for that...


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> 8.1 our gas stations aren't close enough together for that...


 With the drop tanks I have a range of 80 miles.


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## Mister Nature Lawn Care (Oct 26, 2019)

SilverPine said:


> I plow with a ram 2500 5.7, its more than capable. With a full load of salt in it, I prefer to be in my duramax though.
> 
> That being said. The 6.4 hemi has me interested.


Do the 6.4 Hemi do well compare the 5.7 hemi or should 6 7 Cummins work better?


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## CowboysLC_DE (Aug 17, 2013)

Mister Nature Lawn Care said:


> Do the 6.4 Hemi do well compare the 5.7 hemi or should 6 7 Cummins work better?


I've been very happy with my 2015 with the 6.4l and 3.73 gears. When I start plowing I have at 1,500# of bagged salt in the bed. It's in the marketplace section on here as I am looking to make my personal truck my work truck and buy a new personal truck.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> If you go with a gasser, get the lowest gear ratio available.
> 
> I have a 6.4 with 3.73s and it sucks. And blows.


At the same time...... Impressive


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## m_ice (Aug 12, 2012)

BUFF said:


> At the same time...... Impressive


Nevermind...


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

I knew a girl ...... nevermind


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## SHAWZER (Feb 29, 2012)

I went with a 6.2 gas in a new 2015 F250 , loved 5.9 cummins but everything else fell apart


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