# End of season take overs



## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Looks like some plow guys are starting to give up here. In the last week I've gotten 3 calls to see if I have any room for plowing. Beginning of March and people are still looking .


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

I am not giving up. I am sending you the BS that I don't want.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

thelettuceman;1777984 said:


> I am not giving up. I am sending you the BS that I don't want.


No thanks, I only bill seasonally!


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## GM Landscape (Sep 3, 2012)

Yeah the $ runs dry on the lowballers or "plow guys" and they say screw this. We had two late last week call us about "helping them out". Had to say no to both, looked names up our computer.........both received estimates last fall from us and had used the "too much $" line. One of the smartest ideas is to keep track of estimate information (sale or no sale).


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

GM Landscape;1777994 said:


> Yeah the $ runs dry on the lowballers or "plow guys" and they say screw this. We had two late last week call us about "helping them out". Had to say no to both, looked names up our computer.........both received estimates last fall from us and had used the "too much $" line. One of the smartest ideas is to keep track of estimate information (sale or no sale).


That's funny we had the similar thing happen this year. Bid on hotel across the street from one of our current accounts. Turned us down to go with someone cheaper. The big storm we had last month that person quit. The manager flagged me down while plowing the account across the street. Needless to say we didn't take the account. Person wanted me to stop what I was doing and come plow their lot.


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## ford550 (Nov 9, 2008)

kimber750;1778008 said:


> That's funny we had the similar thing happen this year. Bid on hotel across the street from one of our current accounts. Turned us down to go with someone cheaper. The big storm we had last month that person quit. *The manager flagged me down while plowing the account across the street. Needless to say we didn't take the account. Person wanted me to stop what I was doing and come plow their lot.*


Money talks and BS walks. For the right amount of CASH UP FRONT, anything is possible payupThumbs Up


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## nighthawk117 (Nov 29, 2008)

grandview;1777978 said:


> Looks like some plow guys are starting to give up here. In the last week I've gotten 3 calls to see if I have any room for plowing. Beginning of March and people are still looking .


Let me guess, they couldn't come up with the rent to pay their parents, cell phone got shut off, the one plow they own broke, they can't come up with any salt, insurance company cancelled their policy all because they are the lowest bidder on a commercial property managed by a national !! Ha


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

nighthawk117;1778050 said:


> Let me guess, they couldn't come up with the rent to pay their parents, cell phone got shut off, the one plow they own broke, they can't come up with any salt, insurance company cancelled their policy all because they are the lowest bidder on a commercial property managed by a national !! Ha


Been a long season and guys aren't used to plowing over 30 times in a season.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

thelettuceman;1777984 said:


> I am not giving up. I am sending you the BS that I don't want.


Hahahahah!


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

For a lot of them even the cheap guy is billing a lot this year. If you have the room get in while you can, next year is another season. Take the opportunity to quote a higher price and replace work that you've lost, or not been happy with your margins on.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Mr.Markus;1778138 said:


> For a lot of them even the cheap guy is billing a lot this year. If you have the room get in while you can, next year is another season. Take the opportunity to quote a higher price and replace work that you've lost, or not been happy with your margins on.


If I do decide to pick up a few driveways the price will be at least 100 bucks higher next season.


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## BMWSTUD25 (Aug 21, 2008)

I think its a great way to pick up work if you have room. I just wouldn't do it unless they sign for the remainder of the current season as well as next season. No exceptions.


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Got a few calls.... 

I turn them away, its crap properties that i'm sure they havent paid there current plow guy..


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## Wilnip (Oct 4, 2011)

grandview;1778051 said:


> Been a long season and guys aren't used to plowing over 30 times in a season.


More like 30 times a month!


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## theguynextdoor (Sep 18, 2007)

Although this season wasn't extremely profitable on the seasonal contracts, it was necessary to weed out the lowballer companies that have entered the market with the last few light winters. Also we can raise the seasonal prices next year without having people say we didn't have to plow last winter. Can't sell snowplowing if it doesn't snow.


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## snowcrazy (Nov 18, 2010)

Flawless440;1778194 said:


> Got a few calls....
> 
> I turn them away, its crap properties that i'm sure they havent paid there current plow guy..


Im on the other end of this deal. Ive been fired due to high bills (what the hell do they expect on a near record braking year)............ So everyone else is picking up work off my back. And your right they haven't paid there old plow guy!!!!!!

They have all gotten a little payback so far from the places that canned my. Pizza hut got rid of me when there is a salt shortage. I have plenty. They replaced me with someone who cant get salt. There lot is across from 3 of my accounts. My stuff looked great yesterday before there guy showed up mid way through the day. He was just starting when there were dry spots on my lots. There was still snow on there lot at lunch time today 24 hours after my lots were just wet.

The other which canned me and owes over 9K bucks replaced me with a fella with an old truck with junk equipment. He didn't show up to this 4.5 acre strip mall till cars were showing up (hahahahaha I would have been done by then). He didn't clean up the rear of the building where the semis unload so one of the drivers didn't realize where the parking lot/grass field started. He pulled that semi out in the middle of the field and got BURRIED!!!!!!!!! Once again never would have happened because the parking lot would have been plowed. I was smart enough to take my property stakes up when they canned me....... Your welcome ass hole property manager.......... LOL They may still get the last laugh though. If they don't pay.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

I have been asked to bid on 10 more small commercials. Not happy with the current guy.
I had already bid these in November of 11. They asked for another copy of that bid. I told them I might rethink some prices, and they said sure. I did in fact raise the price on all but 2. Can't be doing it for the fun of it.
We shall see.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

grandview;1777987 said:


> No thanks, I only bill seasonally!


I told them to sign up with you for life because I don't want them back. You will get many seasons out of them.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

I had 2 calls 1 was for 3 gas stations and one was a Company I told them no once but twice no F&S
3 gas stations, Ask if I can do it for same price they was paying. I told them no that's the reason for the bad service. Then I told them my price and then my salt price.
They thought my lot clearing price was ok but they told my salt price was double there old price. I told them its costing me double so I have to charge more for late contacts.
I didn't get them Owell I'm ready for green grass


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

grandview;1778051 said:


> Been a long season and guys aren't used to plowing over 30 times in a season.


I know feeling Im at 41 for the season glad I have per visit contacts beside one Seasonal I have its running close to the redline


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Those with seasonal contracts in my area that didn't "plan correctly" are in way over there heads! This year we had close to 3 times our regular snowfall. Feb alone was 30" + our usual season is around 25".Add that to last year with the 38" blizzard and some are seeing a deep dark hole of debt. As the season went on you could tell which lots were seasonal, very poor quality,get in and get out quick!Maybe equalize over next few years if they can hold on.


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

Seasonal pricing is Russian roulette with 3 rounds in the wheel.


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

Our seasonals have a max snowfall limit. Next year they will also have a max event limit.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

It is normal to have a good blast every 5 years or so, we have been lucky with the low snow winters we've had since 2008. If you are a seasonal pricer you should be signing multi year and expect that you might come up short 1 year in 3 and allowed for it.
My visit schedule is way off this year but snowfall totals are normal. Salt usage is up as well, I consistently buy 100 tonne a year, this year I have bought 175 tonne. We need years like this to weed out some of the guys who think they enjoy it.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Buswell Forest;1779792 said:


> Seasonal pricing is Russian roulette with 3 rounds in the wheel.


For me,all my expenses are the same whether it snows or not. The only real big difference is gas. But if its not snowing I'm driving around all day burning gas.This winter,all though cold out seems to be going faster then past years where I sit around all day eating and getting fat!


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

grandview;1779883 said:


> The only real big difference is gas.


..and munchies and cable.Thumbs Up


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

grandview;1779883 said:


> For me,all my expenses are the same whether it snows or not. The only real big difference is gas. But if its not snowing I'm driving around all day burning gas.This winter,all though cold out seems to be going faster then past years where I sit around all day eating and getting fat!


Imagine running 5 trucks/crews! That will suck you dry! You're the zen master of seasonals, you should write a book or work as a consultant! Not everyone is as enlightened.Thumbs Up


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

leigh;1780070 said:


> Imagine running 5 trucks/crews! That will suck you dry! You're the zen master of seasonals, you should write a book or work as a consultant! Not everyone is as enlightened.Thumbs Up


Tip 1,don't be afraid to be above average on your pricing.Thumbs Up


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## kimber750 (Sep 19, 2011)

grandview;1779883 said:


> For me,all my expenses are the same whether it snows or not. The only real big difference is gas. But if its not snowing I'm driving around all day burning gas.This winter,all though cold out seems to be going faster then past years where I sit around all day eating and getting fat!


Salt prices is what hurt us this year. Skid of bag melt $350 at beginning of season, $700 towards the end.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

kimber750;1780318 said:


> Salt prices is what hurt us this year. Skid of bag melt $350 at beginning of season, $700 towards the end.


That is bad I thought the price was bad here but I guess not I went from 280 to 400 A farm store here is trying sell it at 650 a pallet I heard they haven't sold any pallets since they bought 24 pallets in late feb They are going have to sit on it a few years now

I used 13 pallets this year in the tail gate spreader
Last 4 pallets was Solar salt I think next winter I'm going buy more of that It spreads better


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

I don't quite understand how you make as much if you figured 60 visits (for example) for the bid, but ended up visiting 120 times..
Gas, repairs, maintenance, supplies, payroll....it has to add up.
Sure, you might have 3 or even 4 years that fall in your favor...but speaking just for me, I can't bank enough extra in those 4 to run the 5th for nothing.
So, per visit is the only way I know of to guarantee I make a profit every time I start the truck.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Buswell Forest;1780601 said:


> I don't quite understand how you make as much if you figured 60 visits (for example) for the bid, but ended up visiting 120 times..
> Gas, repairs, maintenance, supplies, payroll....it has to add up.
> Sure, you might have 3 or even 4 years that fall in your favor...but speaking just for me, I can't bank enough extra in those 4 to run the 5th for nothing.
> So, per visit is the only way I know of to guarantee I make a profit every time I start the truck.


Depending if you had a thaw or not during the season those last 60 plows will be faster then the 1st 60 because the lots get smaller and your done faster.Figuring out seasonal pricing is no different the per plowing pricing.Around here business don't like those surprise bills during the winter.They prefer a balanced bill so they can budget it. And if your good they will stay for you for years,so that will cut down your back office expenses,less advertising and supplies to go with it ,less gas doing estimates so a lot goes into that bid.


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## thelettuceman (Nov 23, 2010)

Buswell Forest;1780601 said:


> I don't quite understand how you make as much if you figured 60 visits (for example) for the bid, but ended up visiting 120 times..
> Gas, repairs, maintenance, supplies, payroll....it has to add up.
> Sure, you might have 3 or even 4 years that fall in your favor...but speaking just for me, I can't bank enough extra in those 4 to run the 5th for nothing.
> So, per visit is the only way I know of to guarantee I make a profit every time I start the truck.


Grandview: Your posting above this response makes some valid points but I have to align my thinking more with Buswell Forest


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## Buswell Forest (Jan 11, 2013)

grandview;1780706 said:


> Depending if you had a thaw or not during the season those last 60 plows will be faster then the 1st 60 because the lots get smaller and your done faster.Figuring out seasonal pricing is no different the per plowing pricing.Around here business don't like those surprise bills during the winter.They prefer a balanced bill so they can budget it. And if your good they will stay for you for years,so that will cut down your back office expenses,less advertising and supplies to go with it ,less gas doing estimates so a lot goes into that bid.


If my aunt had ballz she'd be my uncle.


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## Raymond S. (Jan 8, 2008)

If your aunt had balls she'd be Hilary Clinton...


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## Mega cab (Aug 21, 2012)

You are making me hungry talking about Pizza!


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## WIPensFan (Jan 31, 2009)

grandview;1780706 said:


> Depending if you had a thaw or not during the season those last 60 plows will be faster then the 1st 60 because the lots get smaller and your done faster.Figuring out seasonal pricing is no different the per plowing pricing.Around here business don't like those surprise bills during the winter.They prefer a balanced bill so they can budget it. And if your good they will stay for you for years,so that will cut down your back office expenses,less advertising and supplies to go with it ,less gas doing estimates so a lot goes into that bid.


Grandview, businesses can still budget for per push, it's not that difficult.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

grandview;1780706 said:


> Depending if you had a thaw or not during the season those last 60 plows will be faster then the 1st 60 because the lots get smaller and your done faster.Figuring out seasonal pricing is no different the per plowing pricing.Around here business don't like those surprise bills during the winter.They prefer a balanced bill so they can budget it. And if your good they will stay for you for years,so that will cut down your back office expenses,less advertising and supplies to go with it ,less gas doing estimates so a lot goes into that bid.


Sorry that's not how it really works 
Your lots shouldnt get smaller if you stacking it up but if you let it build out in the lots. That looks trouble I know guys does it here and it looks bad. 
Price them to cheap to do a good job.
To me it just lazy
If you went around look at my jobs they are all stack up in the pile areas or over the curbs. 
They pay you clean 2 acres you better be cleaning all 2 acres each time 
Late in the season you only doing 1.5 acres of the 2 then your cheating the customer.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Antlerart06;1780979 said:


> Sorry that's not how it really works
> Your lots shouldnt get smaller if you stacking it up but if you let it build out in the lots. That looks trouble I know guys does it here and it looks bad.
> Price them to cheap to do a good job.
> To me it just lazy
> ...


Maybe around you with you low snow totals ,I plow to the end of the lot and push the snow up ,the truck is not a bulldozer,you want it up and over the curd or moved somewhere else thats extra.You want salt ,extra,shoveling extra,


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## Wilnip (Oct 4, 2011)

When you have over 120" you can't push it over the curb. My lots are a lot smaller now from all the snow we had. My customers had an opportunity to have this snow hauled out or stacked and they all refused. Guess they thought it would melt. They don't realize it melts from the outside in. I tried to tell them...


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Apparently it all works out, this year all per push,best year everpayup I've done well when I've had seasonals. Everyone,contractor and clients,have their preferences. Seasonal/perpush, profitable if bid properly! Have to be open minded.


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## cbservicesllc (Aug 5, 2011)

grandview;1780994 said:


> Maybe around you with you low snow totals ,I plow to the end of the lot and push the snow up ,the truck is not a bulldozer,you want it up and over the curb or moved somewhere else thats extra.You want salt ,extra,shoveling extra,


You said it... :salute: payup


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

grandview;1780994 said:


> Maybe around you with you low snow totals ,I plow to the end of the lot and push the snow up ,the truck is not a bulldozer,you want it up and over the curd or moved somewhere else thats extra.You want salt ,extra,shoveling extra,


Wow what is in your contact seems like everything that should be in it 
Its all extra


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

grandview;1780994 said:


> Maybe around you with you low snow totals ,I plow to the end of the lot and push the snow up ,the truck is not a bulldozer,you want it up and over the curd or moved somewhere else thats extra.You want salt ,extra,shoveling extra,


Plow to the edge/curb, lift and push until front tires hit edge/curb and stop. That is all we need to do. The piles will continue to increase in size and start to cover over the lot, and that is not the contractor's problem (unless written in the contract that you will provide free relocation!) because it is not his snow nor his lot.

We are paid to plow the snow to designated areas on the lot.
-If they want loader stacking, it costs extra
-If they want trucking it away, it costs extra
-If they want salting, it costs extra
-If they want sidewalks shoveled and salted, it costs extra
-NOTHING should ever be assumed to be free for the customer, if you are planning to throw it in, it should be spelled out in the contract and your pricing should be set to cover those costs! But nothing is FREE.

That being said, my lots are all large enough that they can stockpile their own snow where I put it. The two largest are side by side and done with a loader, so the pile is quite....um.... vertical already. The only lot I have ever had to bring a machine in to stack is a medium-to-small sized plaza that is really poorly laid out from a snow perspective, plus they were doing renovations (so about 6-12 extra vehicles parked there daily), plus lugger dumpsters parked where we normally pile the snow... so they requested I bring in the skidsteer and stack the piles higher and move snow to the curbs that the truck can't stack on (curved, or too high) to open up about a half dozen parking spaces. Did it in about an hour (plus about a half hr float time and a couple bags of salt to cover those parking spaces), charged $250 and everyone felt it was fair.



Wilnip;1781058 said:


> When you have over 120" you can't push it over the curb. My lots are a lot smaller now from all the snow we had. My customers had an opportunity to have this snow hauled out or stacked and they all refused. Guess they thought it would melt. They don't realize it melts from the outside in. I tried to tell them...


I've tried explaining this to property managers too, why don't they get this? They seem to think it will melt in the reverse order of how it was stacked, getting closer to the curb every day... ummm doesn't quite work that way!!!

This is especially a problem when you have regular warm ups thru the season, and the center of your pile is suddenly 8-10' from the curb and when it melts back the pile starts well past the curb, then the tenants start to ***** that we are wasting space not pushing the snow far enough back... I just shake my head and don't waste time trying to explain it over and over to stupid people, the property managers usually drop the issue once you explain (even tho they are obviously still confused) but tenants just assume you are an idiot and thats why it is like that...


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## truckitup (Aug 21, 2011)

Antlerart06;1780979 said:


> Sorry that's not how it really works
> Your lots shouldnt get smaller if you stacking it up but if you let it build out in the lots. That looks trouble I know guys does it here and it looks bad.
> Price them to cheap to do a good job.
> To me it just lazy
> ...


Really, Do not know how much snow you get a year, but up in Snow Belt with 100 plus inches per year good luck with that. I guess I should run my 40,000 LBS loader on the lawn the first plow and do $1,000 or more of lawn damage so I can plow the whole lot in March. That is why they make a thing called snow removal that is an extra coast. Try getting a 30 inches of snow fall in 12 hours and see were your piles end up.


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

My V plow will put it were ever u want it Sir..


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## truckitup (Aug 21, 2011)

Yep got two with wings as well.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Flawless440;1781791 said:


> My V plow will put it were ever u want it Sir..


So my Boss v plow,right to the end of the lot and lift.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Last plow of the season,maybe, got a call some plow guy didn't show up so I'll go over and do it and have a new customer and new higher price for next year for them!


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## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

I had people try for the flagdowns this storm, we were far to busy trying to keep up as it was.

The ones that annoy me are those who can't get in their own driveway, so they come park their car in the parking lot I just cleared (in the middle of course) and leave it there for the remainder of the storm giving me yet another obstacle to work around in piss-poor visibility...


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## UltraLwn&Lndscp (Oct 20, 2013)

I second, third and forth what the Erie and Ontario guys said. I had a "discussion" with a client yesterday morning. It ended with me saying that I am not a magician.


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## UltraLwn&Lndscp (Oct 20, 2013)

To add to GV's original post. I have been getting cold calls for 36 hours, as well as old clients who tried to save a buck. "the plow guy hasn't been back in 12 hours, blah blah." You get what you pay for. Well, its all been done now, on my watch, not theirs. payup


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