# Looking for a little input. Please.



## mtk469 (Aug 27, 2009)

Okay all. I got a call from a local HOA president yesterday wondering if we would bid there addition for snow. My partner and I have a difference of opinion on what we should be bidding it at. I know what our rates are but was curious what you all think as far as time and amount of salt goes. Here are a couple of details that hopefully will help.

Approx. 1.9 miles of Street 21 feet wide. Including 6 culdasacs. They have a rule that no cars are to be left on the streets so this helps. 
As for salt of the 1.9 miles approx 1.5 would be salted.

We would be using 2 -3/4 pickups with 8' straights and wings ( we could switch out one for a 8'6" V if needed)

Salt - we use both Bulk Rock salt and magic salt. Thoughts on positives or negatives with these options. We have a tailgate spreader and a V box. Probably use the V box for this.

Anyways, any thoughts on what you would estimate this as far as time to plow and amount of salt ( rock or Magic we won't use both it will be one or the other.)

If I missed something let me know and I will try to get the details. I would like to bid this but don't want to mess it up. We have a couple of other HOA's that we do but neither use salt.
Thanks in advance for any assitance.

Matt


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## forestfireguy (Oct 7, 2006)

Are you bidding seasonal or per push, brackets? Kinda vague on some things, shoveling? any lots or just roadways? Is salting completeyly up to you or is it their call? Will you be paid again or hourly to clean up when people don't move cars or will you have to sit and wait for a tow truck?

Lots to consider overall, as to the salt, I'd almost always say go with the magic........


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## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

A little unsolicited advice - if the "partner" you refer to is a business partner, and not family - get out as soon as you can. Business partnerships rarely last.


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## mtk469 (Aug 27, 2009)

forestfireguy;861386 said:


> Are you bidding seasonal or per push, brackets? Kinda vague on some things, shoveling? any lots or just roadways? Is salting completeyly up to you or is it their call? Will you be paid again or hourly to clean up when people don't move cars or will you have to sit and wait for a tow truck?
> 
> Lots to consider overall, as to the salt, I'd almost always say go with the magic........


Sorry for the missing info. They want it bid per push and also hourly. 2" trigger. Salting after each plowing. Just roadways. No shoveling, walks etc. Hourly if any cleanup is needed. 
Thoughts? How much magic do you think it would take?



 2COR517;861398 said:


> A little unsolicited advice - if the "partner" you refer to is a business partner, and not family - get out as soon as you can. Business partnerships rarely last.


Thanks for the advise. I totally hear what your saying. We have our moments thats for sure.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

I helped out this place last storm. (their landscaper went bankrupt and they didn't know it for plowing. so nobody showed up. and they were calling, I just did it hourly for a few hours)
Easy 6 inches plus on the roads much bigger drifts in spots. 
It was a manufactured home place (not a trailer park, but next step up)
2.5 miles of roads

big wide roads (30 to 40+ feet), no or few cars on the side, but every single place had a giant circle around a park with homes all around the outside. it was actually quicker to plow it going forward and back each little mini-cul-de-sac then trying to go around and around when you couldn't get around the turn. I had to make 5 to 6 passes to get each road way curb to curb.

Anyway, I did about 1/3 of the place in 2 hours. (8' w/ wings)
The local "maintenance guys" who knew the place by heart (I'd never been there before) had been working all day (9am to 4:30pm when I left) with a tractor and small (4') skid steer and had maybe 1/3 of it done. Pretty sad IMO. I bid it and apparently didn't get it. Bizarre. It was a pretty tight bid for an enormous place.

So, without a picture of yours, I have no idea.

If you can just drive around and around, that's normally much faster than back and forth.

2 miles of just straight roadway 21 feet wide is 2 passes up and back (4 total). Take less than an hour with one truck. The cul-de-sacs take much longer, but depends on the size and layout.

post a picture.

Oh yeah, plus one for the partnership advice. ALL partnerships end badly.


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## mtk469 (Aug 27, 2009)

LoneCowboy;861568 said:


> I helped out this place last storm. (their landscaper went bankrupt and they didn't know it for plowing. so nobody showed up. and they were calling, I just did it hourly for a few hours)
> Easy 6 inches plus on the roads much bigger drifts in spots.
> It was a manufactured home place (not a trailer park, but next step up)
> 2.5 miles of roads
> ...


Thanks for the info. I can't seem to figure out how to do a google earth pitcure on here but I will try and post one. 
Thanks,
Matt


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

mtk469;862002 said:


> Thanks for the info. I can't seem to figure out how to do a google earth pitcure on here but I will try and post one.
> Thanks,
> Matt


go to bing.com/maps (works so much better than google)
type in the address.
click on "birds eye view"

get it centered where you want it, etc

alt-print screen puts it on the clipboard.

Open up paint (or any type of program) and paste it in.
save as (whatever)

take out what you don't need, put in any markings, etc

tada, picture

then when posting click on "manage attachments" and add the picture.


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## mtk469 (Aug 27, 2009)

Lonecowboy.

Thanks for the info. Attached is a pic of the location. The red represents the areas that are plowed and salted. The yellow are the areas that are plowed only. The 2 yellow lines at the top run another 200 feet or so into culdasacs but I couldn't get them in the pic for some reason. 
Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks,
Matt


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Are the parameters clearly stated in the contract. Why no Salt in thoses areas?


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## mtk469 (Aug 27, 2009)

basher;862391 said:


> Are the parameters clearly stated in the contract. Why no Salt in thoses areas?


The parameters are stated clearly. As for salt that is what they requested and how they have always done it. I asked them about it and they said that is what they wanted and to quote it accordingly.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Do they speicify the application rates?


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## mtk469 (Aug 27, 2009)

basher;862490 said:


> Do they speicify the application rates?


They didn't specify application rates. They asked me to bid it to apply salt after each plowing. Or if there was ice. They told me that the previous contractor billed 2-3 ton of salt per applicationon the specified areas. I guess I am just trying to determine if he was billing more than what he was spreading? If my figures are correct it shouldn't take quite that much.
Any thoughts?
THanks,
Matt


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

How many sq ft/road miles


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## mtk469 (Aug 27, 2009)

basher;862610 said:


> How many sq ft/road miles


About 1.5 miles of road 21' wide. for salting and plowing. Then another .4miles of just plowing. So the total area is just shy of 2 miles.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

http://www.clrp.cornell.edu/techassistance/CALIBRATION CHART.pdf


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## mtk469 (Aug 27, 2009)

basher;862758 said:


> http://www.clrp.cornell.edu/techassistance/CALIBRATION CHART.pdf


Thanks for the chart. Very helpful.


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

2 hours maybe 3.
one truck, up to 6"


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