# Smoking Policy??



## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

I'm just wondering if anyone has a smoking policy for their subs or drivers. I will have a new sub this year that smokes, and don't want him to smoke while he's clearing side walks at our accounts. I think it just looks unprofessional. Am i wrong for asking him not to smoke outside of his vehicle?


----------



## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

i dont think its a big deal but you could ask him to just smoke in his truck....


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

You are not wrong to require this.....could be met with some resistance though. 

We have had sites where NO ONE, even plow truck drivers are allowed to smoke. Big fines if they catch you flipping your cig buts out the window....not to mention if they do catch you smoking you will be banned from the site.

Doesn't matter if you're the foreman, supervisor or owner.....your ID will be pulled and security will not allow you back on site.


----------



## RichG53 (Sep 16, 2008)

Descrimatation...... !!!!!!


----------



## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

I gatta tell you from a former smokers stand point, you can tell him whatever you want, but chances are he is going to lite up anyway when no one (of importance) is looking. 

There is a new law (not sure if it's fed or state) out now that states you can't smoke within 20' (or is it 20 yards) of any public building. 

Good Luck!


----------



## JR Snow Removal (Jul 16, 2008)

RepoMan207;883585 said:


> I gatta tell you from a former smokers stand point, you can tell him whatever you want, but chances are he is going to lite up anyway when no one (of importance) is looking.
> 
> There is a new law (not sure if it's fed or state) out now that states you can't smoke within 20' (or is it 20 yards) of any public building.
> 
> Good Luck!


Yup I agree, I use to but quit at the end of last season, now i chew o well


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Nope, not wrong at all. 

We have customers that don't allow smoking on any of their properties, either. 

And I do NOT allow it in my trucks either.


----------



## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

JR Snow Removal;883591 said:


> Yup I agree, I use to but quit at the end of last season, now i chew o well


I quit back in 02, started up again in 06 for all of 5-6 months and then quit again. To each his own, but I think I would rather smoke......Have you seen the damage to your mouth that chew will cause. I'd post some pics, but.....

Pat on the back for quiting smoking though


----------



## STRONGARM (Jan 10, 2005)

Nothing wrong with it at all, just make sure you enforce it. If you catch him make sure there's a penalty, if not he won't take any of your rules seriously.


----------



## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

Plowtoy;883552 said:


> I'm just wondering if anyone has a smoking policy for their subs or drivers. I will have a *new sub* this year that smokes, and don't want him to smoke while he's clearing side walks at our accounts. I think it just looks unprofessional. Am i wrong for asking him not to smoke outside of his vehicle?


You can't tell him squat.
He's a sub, not an employee.
If you tell him HOW to do the job, he's an employee and .gov frowns on that.

the property might have rules and the subs might have to obey those and that you can do. But YOUR company policies don't apply to him if he's a SUB.


----------



## STRONGARM (Jan 10, 2005)

LoneCowboy;883843 said:


> You can't tell him squat.
> He's a sub, not an employee.
> If you tell him HOW to do the job, he's an employee and .gov frowns on that.
> 
> the property might have rules and the subs might have to obey those and that you can do. But YOUR company policies don't apply to him if he's a SUB.


As long as I'm signing his cheque he would follow my rules. Without me he has no work. Just my point of view, I have sub's that work for me and they have no problem with simple rules like that.


----------



## bean7654 (Jul 14, 2009)

As a smoker I would also agree that no matter what you tell him he will probably smoke, especially if its his equipment. I tend to smoke more when I am driving and Im sure I will smoke alot when plowing for sure, this will be my first year. If its your equipment then I would think you could tell him not to just as rental car companies do. Note: I have smoked in rental cars!


----------



## STRONGARM (Jan 10, 2005)

I think he's talking about when the guy is out of the truck doing walks????


----------



## bean7654 (Jul 14, 2009)

If thats the case then I would agree that it may be unprofessional, especially residential homes not so much commercial cause im sure there customers smoke in those same lots.


----------



## shott8283 (Feb 17, 2008)

i see where you heading.. but.. you also got to remember.. these guys are 99% blue collar fellows that just would get along much better not dealing with ******** rules like seperate smoking area, smoking rules etc etc

now.. for saftey reasons.. no smoking while at the fuel tank in the yard.. well duh..

but a guy busting hump for you trying to get your acount done in time.. id leave him alone.. 

or atleast.. be polite and toss the cig before entering majority of public view

i worked for a place that went from smoking to no smoking ban (outside on the property, AND even adjacent properties as well.. meaning, you can smoke on the neighbors lawn.. the nerve... still gets me fired up!!! ).. i tell you.. its a kick in the nuts.. and it wasn't even for safety.. it was just so they could do it.. b/c they felt like it.. a lot of people left the company (crap hole to work for anyway) 

but i do see where your coming from and your point of view.. just coming from a guy that feels that his rights are being nut jammed everyday, to be told he can and cant smoke in certain places.. 

just seems petty to me

BTW: im not a smoker LOL.. just believe in own rights


----------



## Seaway25 (Sep 15, 2009)

I don't think it's wrong. You can make any rule you think is appropriate for your company. I just think you might make some employees angry and have a hard time enforcing it.


----------



## snocrete (Feb 28, 2009)

shott8283;883931 said:


> i see where you heading.. but.. you also got to remember.. these guys are 99% blue collar fellows that just would get along much better not dealing with ******** rules like seperate smoking area, smoking rules etc etc
> 
> now.. for saftey reasons.. no smoking while at the fuel tank in the yard.. well duh..
> 
> ...


I agree......... but if its REALLY that big of a deal with a certain customer, then by all means your employees/subs should abide by the rules on "those" particular accounts.


----------



## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

Plowtoy;883552 said:


> I'm just wondering if anyone has a smoking policy for their subs or drivers. I will have a new sub this year that smokes, and don't want him to smoke while he's clearing side walks at our accounts. I think it just looks unprofessional. Am i wrong for asking him not to smoke outside of his vehicle?


i don't allow any crack , heroin or weed smoking on the job either.wont stand for it . fired on the spot.cigars and cigarettes are fine .


----------



## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

STRONGARM;883854 said:


> As long as I'm signing his cheque he would follow my rules. Without me he has no work. Just my point of view, I have sub's that work for me and they have no problem with simple rules like that.


You're missing the point.
check IRS.gov for rules on defining an employee vs. a contractor.

If you want to pay the man like an employee (withholding, SS, medicare, etc), then they follow all the rules.

If you want to pay them like a sub, then you have to treat it as accomplishing a job. How they accomplish that job is their business. If it's your business defining how the job is done, then they aren't really a contractor are they?

The penalties are severe. You want to do it right.

ETA Ok I just realized that Strongarm is in Canada, the rules may be different there. but the OP is in Michigan, IRS rules apply.


----------



## hydro_37 (Sep 10, 2006)

No smoking......period


----------



## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

Most of the time we are working in the middle of the night. why would it matter then anyway? If it during business hours and the company doesn't like it then i would understand. As far as residential's I would agree 100% since most likely any butt they find will get blamed on your company.

I am a smoker and i like my rights but i understand rules that have a meaning or good reason but if it's because you don't like it, i would do it anyway.


----------



## STRONGARM (Jan 10, 2005)

LoneCowboy;884029 said:


> You're missing the point.
> check IRS.gov for rules on defining an employee vs. a contractor.
> 
> If you want to pay the man like an employee (withholding, SS, medicare, etc), then they follow all the rules.
> ...


I agree you have to treat then like a contractor, but if my contract say's no smoking, or must have an orange vest ect..... then the sub has to follow those rules.


----------



## asps4u (Sep 16, 2009)

It's YOUR company. If it's an employee, you make the rules, they follow the rules, PERIOD. If it's a sub, make it part of the contract. If you don't want it to be part of the contract, than tell him that's a rule in your company and if he wants to do work on your accounts, he has to do it your way. 

I am a smoker, and I do not smoke on any customer's property no matter what. I smoke while driving between accounts. It's respectful to my customers and an image I want for my company.


----------



## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

This is funny stuff. I would laugh in your face and hop back in my truck and leave.

Who really makes a big deal about smoking outside?? I can see maybe if he is throwing his cig butts in the yard or something. But other then that i see no problem. 

As far as smoking in your company trucks. Its your trucks you can make any rule you want. But if i knew a guy was a real good worker and showed up all the time. I would over look his smoking in the truck if he wanted too. 

How is smoking un-professional?? Cuz you dont like it that means its un-professional??

we are snow plowers not lawyers. :laughing:


----------



## STRONGARM (Jan 10, 2005)

If it's in the contract, thats the way it is.

And why should we be happy with a guy showing up on time..and reward him.Thats his job. I'm sick of people that want to work but can't handle the rules.


----------



## L.I.Mike (Dec 28, 2002)

If the customer says no smoking on their property then thats it. Let him smoke in his truck.


----------



## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

LoneCowboy;884029 said:


> You're missing the point.
> check IRS.gov for rules on defining an employee vs. a contractor.
> 
> If you want to pay the man like an employee (withholding, SS, medicare, etc), then they follow all the rules.
> ...


he's correct


----------



## ford550 (Nov 9, 2008)

> And why should we be happy with a guy showing up on time..and reward him.Thats his job.


Bingo


----------



## rob_cook2001 (Nov 15, 2008)

If the customer wants no smoking then its a no brainer. But I hate all the non smoking BS and I DONT even smoke. Ill shut up before I piss anyone off.


----------



## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

just lie to him, say the management of the building made a stink about the last guy smoking, so its not allowed on site, that also makes you look less like a control freak.


----------



## Seaway25 (Sep 15, 2009)

I think we should talk politics and religion now. Or maybe Ford v Chevy. Something less controversial.


----------



## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

Mackman;884124 said:


> This is funny stuff. I would laugh in your face and hop back in my truck and leave.
> 
> Who really makes a big deal about smoking outside?? I can see maybe if he is throwing his cig butts in the yard or something. But other then that i see no problem.
> 
> ...


10-4......I don't even smoke & this subject got me pissed, what is this freaken world coming too.....Are you people so worried about being PC or that god forbid you might offend someone by smoking.....Hey plowtoy I dare ya to show up to a job & say something to a guy that's been busting his balls for ya for 24 hrs & tell him you can't smoke.... it's unprofessional.....Go & Support your Obama, because any one who say's something that stupid must be a liberal


----------



## fernalddude (Feb 15, 2004)

Ok my take on this and Iam a smoker some of my guys, smoke and smokeless either way they work there butts off and we get a few minutes for a break they can do what the want. But if the rules are not on the prop we just go down the street and have a break. Five minutes for the team to be face to face have a smoke or a chew quick snack or hot drink. Letting off some steam is team building, on the radios is one thing but face to face and a few minutes of venting makes for a better team. They also get to stretch there legs and get some fresh air, keeps them awake and all of us in a better mood.


----------



## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

Good grief... if this is the hottest thread going then we really need some snow.

If the site requires no smoking then that is the rule.

If not, we ask people to be smart about it... smoke at the truck, collect your butts, etc...

Had an HOA complain that she heard noises in the middle of the night -looked out to see another co's 15 foreign shovelers huddled outside her bedroom window smoking. They were just getting out of the cold wind, but I see her point.


----------



## rob_cook2001 (Nov 15, 2008)

THEGOLDPRO;884397 said:


> just lie to him, say the management of the building made a stink about the last guy smoking, so its not allowed on site, that also makes you look less like a control freak.


:laughing: Just lie to your sub's GREAT IDEA


----------



## dzrick (Aug 22, 2007)

Next we can ban coffee


----------



## cleansweep007 (Oct 21, 2008)

Be professional and dont smoke on the properties. No one wants to be called back and pick up cigarette butts !


----------



## KBTConst (Oct 25, 2009)

Im not a smoker and i understand that its your right and i dont care if they smoke just pick up your butts which should not be on the ground any ways i dont allow it in my equipment nothing worse than a non smoker getting in a piece of equipment and it smelling like smoke and the smell stays for days. just be respectful and most are and there will be know problems


----------



## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

I'm willing to make a small wager nobody will give a hoot what your smoking during a blizzard.

As long as the work is getting done .


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

Great points on both sides. Boy this subject sure gets people fired up.



THEGOLDPRO;884397 said:


> just lie to him, say the management of the building made a stink about the last guy smoking, so its not allowed on site, that also makes you look less like a control freak.


Just lie to him :laughing:.....are you for real?!?

Tobacco farms were very important when we first started out as a country. It's not illegal and it is one's right if they choose so. It's a legit personal choice.

Now nothing good comes from it......it's expensive, it can harm your health (in horrible ways) and other peoples health so therefore you just can't do it where it imposes on others, and you don't even get a buzz from it........ so there are no benefits from doing it. No doubt it's a nasty habit.

To say you're unprofessional if you smoke is just wrong and only your opinion for what its worth.....you're imposing on others and just judging others at that point.......it is a poor image though. There is a proper time and place for just about everything. So if the rule is you can't smoke here or there, you don't smoke here or there. If you can't live with the rule I'm sure there's a door you can exit through.


----------



## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

true , vote with your feet.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

T-MAN;884391 said:


> How about Meth ?
> 
> Agreed
> 
> ...


:laughing::laughing:



TommyMac;884414 said:


> 10-4......I don't even smoke & this subject got me pissed, what is this freaken world coming too.....Are you people so worried about being PC or that god forbid you might offend someone by smoking.....Hey plowtoy I dare ya to show up to a job & say something to a guy that's been busting his balls for ya for 24 hrs & tell him you can't smoke.... it's unprofessional.....Go & Support your Obama, because any one who say's something that stupid must be a liberal


Yeah, that's me, liberal and PC. :laughing: :laughing:


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Next thing you know we won't be allowed to take a pee 
on our lots


----------



## JR Snow Removal (Jul 16, 2008)

Now that's funny it's "unprofessional" to smoke on a lot but not "unprofessional" to open your door an take a piss on the lot


----------



## show-n-go (Feb 5, 2009)

leigh;884723 said:


> Next thing you know we won't be allowed to take a pee
> on our lots


Nope, pee in your truck while your smoking. That way you don't offend anyone... lol :laughing:


----------



## Plowtoy (Dec 15, 2001)

I knew this would open a can of worms. I want to stress that i don't care if he wants to smoke in his truck while he's plowing, I just don't care to have him smoking while clearing the sidewalks in front of my accounts while customers will be entering and leaving the buildings. I am not a smoker and none of my other subs are either so this is a new problem for me. He came to me looking for work and i told him he could be a day time sub. I suppose i could keep him from my accounts that require sidewalk clearing but this will limit the amount of work for him. I thank everyone for the info
BTW: I'm not a liberal, and not a OBAMA supporter at all!!!, I'm just looking at the image of my business


----------



## JR Snow Removal (Jul 16, 2008)

Well just tell him to use common sense smoke while your plowing, driving or when no ones around don't smoke around entrances (which most places around here you have to be like 30 feet away to smoke anyway)


----------



## the new boss 92 (Nov 29, 2008)

this is an iteresting subject, im subbing this year for a guy that has a no smoking policy. but more or less i was told i could at night due to the fact that my windows are tinted and are hard to seeinto at night. he also saidif i get cought then i will also have to pay the consiquence because there is a no smoking policy on the condo properties we will be plowing. thats the only rule the contractor has on the property aswell as in his pick up. i do agree with everyone that if there is a no smoking on the property then dont do it, or go across the street. but anywere else go for it as long as you are getting the work done and not smoking your whole pack in hour!


----------



## flatlander42 (Oct 22, 2008)

I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing about the *"INDIAN BURN"* comment! It's been years since I've heard that! hahahaah:laughing:

Nooooooooooo!!! Not an Indian Burn!!!!!!!! haha

_on topic-_
I think that the gov/media just turned the Non-Smokers against the Smokers.....Next they will turn the Non-Drinkers against the Drinkers......Then the Smokers will say *See, I TOLD YA SO!!* (and so on till it is something that you enjoy/do)Slowly they will make the country to what they want. I do not smoke, but I do not want to be told what I can and cant do, and it is comming.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

masternate42;884824 said:


> I think that the gov/media just turned the Non-Smokers against the Smokers.....Next they will turn the Non-Drinkers against the Drinkers......Then the Smokers will say *See, I TOLD YA SO!!* (and so on till it is something that you enjoy/do)Slowly they will make the country to what they want. I do not smoke, but I do not want to be told what I can and cant do, and it is comming.


I agree completely.

Until they decide to make it an illegal substance, I will support every smoker in the USA in their ability to smoke. And I am absolutely against any gov't telling a property owner that they can not allow smoking on the property they own.

I don't think it's a wise choice, but all of us make stupid choices at one time or another.

But, that same property owner has the right to not allow smoking on their property. And I have the right to tell my employees that they can not smoke in my trucks or within view of a customer that does allow it.


----------



## apik1 (Mar 25, 2007)

I would rather have guys smoke in my trucks than drink coffee. I have only had to empty an ash tray twice in the past few years, but we are cleaning up coffee off the window, seat and floor all the time when my guys get back to the shop. But really I dont care if my guys smoke, but if they do I ask them to put it out and put the butt in there pocket if they are outside. And really most of the time if they are shoveling both hands are busy so they really don't smoke untill they get back into the truck. I am a non smoker but most of my employees are.


----------



## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

I'm with Lonecowboy on this one. You hired a sub to do the work and you can't really treat them as an employee and have them adhere to your company policies.
If you are worried about the image of your company you should ask the subcontractor about their policies. Explain your policies to them or ask them to implement some of your policies and if they can't or won't then you still have the right not to use their services, just as they have a right not to work for you. If the subcontractor is already hired (papers signed) you can't legally deny their or their staffs right to smoke. Littering is illegal however in most municipalities and you can ask that they dispose of their cigarette buts properly. 
We here in our "Free World" are having our freedom of choice stripped away one choice at a time. I can't even have a beer outside at the local winter carnival to watch snowmobile races anymore without risking getting fined.


----------



## Shortstuff (Feb 4, 2009)

No matter what I may say (my opinion of course) there are those who will disagree with me... but here goes.

As a contractor, you write policy. If you do not want employees smoking on site (any site) make it known that is your policy. Off site they can do whatever they want, between sites, on break, wherever. If you hire subs, make sure that your subs *know* your policies and if they don't like it, hire someone else.

Now I want to throw a grenade into the mix here. I have smoked cigarettes for the past 36+ years until exactly 4 weeks ago today when I quit *instantly*. I did it with absolutely no withdrawals and no second thoughts whatsoever. I am *NOT* trying to sell anything - I did it with an electronic cigarette.

There are good reasons for smoking bans and there are many, but I think there are a few too many that go a little overboard. I don't ever have to worry about them anymore.

Steve


----------



## cseutah (Nov 24, 2009)

STRONGARM;883854 said:


> As long as I'm signing his cheque he would follow my rules. Without me he has no work. Just my point of view, I have sub's that work for me and they have no problem with simple rules like that.


he has a valid point if you require him to follow a set of rules that you imply, then he is considered an employee. I learned that the hard way years ago with a couple of independants that i had, and then had to pay matches and penalties when the state determined them employees because of the rules for them where the same as hourly employees.
don't set rules set sub contract guidelines that you expect him to follow and consequences if they are not adhered to.


----------



## nekos (Oct 16, 2003)

Plowtoy;884769 said:


> I knew this would open a can of worms. I want to stress that i don't care if he wants to smoke in his truck while he's plowing, I just don't care to have him smoking while clearing the sidewalks in front of my accounts while customers will be entering and leaving the buildings. I am not a smoker and none of my other subs are either so this is a new problem for me. He came to me looking for work and i told him he could be a day time sub. I suppose i could keep him from my accounts that require sidewalk clearing but this will limit the amount of work for him. I thank everyone for the info
> BTW: I'm not a liberal, and not a OBAMA supporter at all!!!, I'm just looking at the image of my business


By law no one is allowed to smoke within 20' of an entrance to a public facility so you have every right to tell him not to smoke while shoveling walks. I'm about 95% sure this is true also ... Even on private property, You are legally allowed to smoke in your own personal vehicle.


----------



## Badgerland WI (Dec 3, 2008)

Am I the only one thinking, who the hell wants to smoke while shoveling anyways?  And yes, this is coming from a smoker.

Tell him that he has to take his breaks in the truck and *out of public view*. That is a very soft and common company policy on smoking without imposing a "ban". If a property is off-limits, then simply explain that to the sub (or give him a printed list of the properties where there is a hard restriction). If you get a complaint, deal with it at that point, but at least you educated the guy in advance. Chances are, you'll never get a complaint because you were at least a little pro-active about it.


----------



## stillen (Dec 7, 2003)

I guess if he's working for your company than you could have rules that don't allow smoking while servicing accounts..... 

If he was being paid by the hour and he was standing around not moving/being productive than yeah it could be a problem. But if he is shoveling with the butt in his mouth bailing your ass out because one of your drivers called out sick than let him......... I guess it all has different situations....

Heck I smoke about six stoggies while i'm on my plow route.... ..... but then again it's my truck, and my dime....... and for the residentials i do ocasionally, i leave the stoggie in the truck when i go to get my moolah....


----------



## ALC-GregH (Nov 26, 2008)

Heck I smoke WITH my customers!


----------



## ScottPA (Nov 11, 2009)

Smoking sure does look disgusting and smells disgusting. Wish they would ban them frigging' things. Maybe health insurance rates would go down to where a self employed person could afford it. Got a quote from Blue cross for me and my wife and they wanted almost 1,200$ a month, and were only 25 Y.o.


----------



## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

ScottPA;886538 said:


> Smoking sure does look disgusting and smells disgusting. Wish they would ban them frigging' things. Maybe health insurance rates would go down to where a self employed person could afford it. Got a quote from Blue cross for me and my wife and they wanted almost 1,200$ a month, and were only 25 Y.o.


Well maybe we should ban candy bars, fast food, beer, etc. etc. They are all not good for you and cost the health insurance companys money. :laughing:

I know smoking is bad. Im 26 smoke around a pack a day. But i do enjoy it. If you never smoked then you wont undertstand. But to all the smokers out there. They know there is nothing like a good cup of coffee and a smoke. It is relaxing. Just my 2cents.


----------



## ScottPA (Nov 11, 2009)

Mackman;886589 said:


> Well maybe we should ban candy bars, fast food, beer, etc. etc. They are all not good for you and cost the health insurance companys money. :laughing:
> 
> I know smoking is bad. Im 26 smoke around a pack a day. But i do enjoy it. If you never smoked then you wont undertstand. But to all the smokers out there. They know there is nothing like a good cup of coffee and a smoke. It is relaxing. Just my 2cents.


I have smoked before. It is enjoyable. But there are lots of other enjoyable healthy alternatives.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ScottPA;886590 said:


> I have smoked before. It is enjoyable. But there are lots of other enjoyable healthy alternatives.


Like badminton.


----------



## ScottPA (Nov 11, 2009)

Mark Oomkes;886599 said:


> Like badminton.


This coming from the guy who was mad over a pipe with residue?


----------



## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

ScottPA;886603 said:


> This coming from the guy who was mad over a pipe with residue?


What happened to that? It seems to have disappeared.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

ScottPA;886603 said:


> This coming from the guy who was mad over a pipe with residue?


Fine, I just didn't think there was much cardiovascular activity in curling.


----------



## Ladysnowmover (Dec 3, 2009)

*Smokiing*

I am a woman small business owner, and also a heavy smoker. I currently own a snow removal business, and have 8 sub contractors, which 5 are also women drivers, and yes they all are smokers too. 
They all have thier own equipment and what they do I have no control over, but common sense prevails when doing the job. I don't think any of my people, ladies and men are going to light up while shoveling snow in front of an office building or a private residence. They all have been asked not to throw butts out thier windows while plowing so I have provided portable ashtrays for the ones who dont have them already in thier trucks. 
Again its common sense, and for the most part, I really don't think anyone is going to say something about smoking especially at 3 am in the morning when we are plowing.


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

I don't think it's professional but how many people are out at 4am? I don't allow smoking in the trucks so it's really hard to figure out how there are some burn holes in some of the trucks As for looking professional I don't allow shorts, and shirts stay ON I don't care how hot it is.


----------



## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;887240 said:


> I don't think it's professional but how many people are out at 4am? I don't allow smoking in the trucks so it's really hard to figure out how there are some burn holes in some of the trucks As for looking professional I don't allow shorts, and shirts stay ON I don't care how hot it is.


So you don't allow smoking in the truck's or @ the job's....Guy's must love you & listen too :laughing: .....And no short's in the summer & you have employee's.....work must be real hard to find in your area if guy's are putting up with that BS


----------



## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

TommyMac;887279 said:


> So you don't allow smoking in the truck's or @ the job's....Guy's must love you & listen too :laughing: .....And no short's in the summer & you have employee's.....work must be real hard to find in your area if guy's are putting up with that BS


Very True.:laughing:


----------



## TommyMac (Nov 20, 2009)

Mackman;887284 said:


> Very True.:laughing:


He'd love me, I pave driveways in the summer & the whole crew weres short's & smoke while shirtless all summer long wesport


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

TommyMac;887279 said:


> So you don't allow smoking in the truck's or @ the job's....Guy's must love you & listen too :laughing: .....And no short's in the summer & you have employee's.....work must be real hard to find in your area if guy's are putting up with that BS


I didn't say they can't smoke on the job sites. I said it doesn't look professional, MN is full of liberal tree huggers. I have seen people walk out of buildings and do the fake cough when they smell smoke. You can call it BS that's fine YOU don't have to work ME. The smoking in the trucks isn't an issue anymore only one guy smokes now, the other one quit.


----------



## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

It's illegal to smoke in the work trucks here.


----------



## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

cretebaby;887454 said:


> It's illegal to smoke in the work trucks here.


What


----------



## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Mackman;887471 said:


> What


It's illegal to smoke in the workplace and that includes vehicles.


----------



## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

cretebaby;887485 said:


> It's illegal to smoke in the workplace and that includes vehicles.


So a truck driver cant smoke in a company rig?? What happens if he is an Owner Operator he cant smoke in his own truck??


----------



## apik1 (Mar 25, 2007)

cretebaby;887485 said:


> It's illegal to smoke in the workplace and that includes vehicles.


I never thought about it like that.


----------



## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Mackman;887787 said:


> So a truck driver cant smoke in a company rig?? What happens if he is an Owner Operator he cant smoke in his own truck??


I don't know all the exact details but I would think no smoking in the company rig and the owner operator could since he has no employees.


----------



## timberseal (Jul 24, 2008)

Mackman;886589 said:


> Well maybe we should ban candy bars, fast food, beer, etc. etc. They are all not good for you and cost the health insurance companys money. :laughing:
> 
> I know smoking is bad. Im 26 smoke around a pack a day. But i do enjoy it. If you never smoked then you wont undertstand. But to all the smokers out there. They know there is nothing like a good cup of coffee and a smoke. It is relaxing. Just my 2cents.


Being around smokers all day and being a non smoker (that grew up around it as well) I can say I cannot stand it either. The difference is when you smoke I have to deal with it. you dont have to eat my candy bar :laughing:

Seriousely though.. a non smoker will agree that when being subjected to cigerette smoke in a closed environment (vehicle, garage, etc...) it makes it harder to breath even. The sh*t sucks.... period. You can subject your body to it all you want just dont force it upon me. Hence... smoke elsewhere. 

That sh*ts expensive on top of all that. There's certainly somethings to be said for wasting money on it but to each his own.


----------



## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

for lone cowboy here, just want to clarify this, So a company i CONTRACT to for snow removal, can make a stipulation in MY contract stating that i can't smoke anywhere on their property, BUT when a subcontractor CONTRACTS to ME, i can't stipulate that he can or cannot smoke while working for ME, is this what you are implying, because if so i would say that is a clear CONTRADICTION!


----------



## go plow (Dec 14, 2004)

im a smoker, and owner, i let people smoke on jobs but you have to be respectful! dont smoke when your near a customer or talking to them, sig butts go in your pockets when your done, not on the ground, and shirts are on at all times, short are ok on hot days as long as were are doing a job that is safe for my workers to have short on! ive even bought cigs while were at the gas station for my guys, just remember, if you take care of your help your help will take care of you and respect you for it!


----------



## flatlander42 (Oct 22, 2008)

In the subject of smoking....I have told my buddies that if they want to blow money, they could just give me 4bucks a day....and I will not shorten their life. It's kinda like a win-win thing.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

NICHOLS LANDSCA;887240 said:


> I don't think it's professional but how many people are out at 4am? I don't allow smoking in the trucks so it's really hard to figure out how there are some burn holes in some of the trucks As for looking professional I don't allow shorts, and shirts stay ON I don't care how hot it is.


Nice to see someone values professionalism.

I have to disagree on the shorts, I personally couldn't stand to wear pants all summer. I was wearing shorts last week.



TommyMac;887279 said:


> So you don't allow smoking in the truck's or @ the job's....Guy's must love you & listen too :laughing: .....And no short's in the summer & you have employee's.....work must be real hard to find in your area if guy's are putting up with that BS


Ahhh, never mind. You're from Mass.


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

Mark Oomkes;888239 said:


> Nice to see someone values professionalism.
> 
> I have to disagree on the shorts, I personally couldn't stand to wear pants all summer. I was wearing shorts last week.
> 
> Thank you. As for the shorts thing we mainly do landscaping and excavating. It's not that they can't wear shorts I just don't like it. The guys are constantly kneeling in the dirt and what have you. I had a guy that insisted on shorts and I let him for a while but he spent more time during the day taking his boots off and cleaning all the dirt out. It became very annoying. On the really hot muggy days we will start early and quit early, I don't like working in it so my guys shouldn't have to either.


----------



## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

if I have to go #2 , guess where im doing it ? yes , you guessed it . does a bear sh*t in the woods? another no-brainer MO. mickydees is not an option . rodger that MO...would that be politically correct ? dont really care . when mother nature calls , Deco runs. get 'er done mo


----------



## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

Deco;889396 said:


> if I have to go #2 , guess where im doing it ? yes , you guessed it . does a bear sh*t in the woods? another no-brainer MO. mickydees is not an option . rodger that MO...would that be politically correct ? dont really care . when mother nature calls , Deco runs. get 'er done mo


That so funny cuz last night the PA turnpike got a gift from me. It was bad news. I saw the next rest area was like 47 miles. I almost cried. So over the the shoulder i went. Good thing it was dark.:laughing:


----------



## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

Deco;889396 said:


> if I have to go #2 , guess where im doing it ? yes , you guessed it . does a bear sh*t in the woods? another no-brainer MO. mickydees is not an option . rodger that MO...would that be politically correct ? dont really care . when mother nature calls , Deco runs. get 'er done mo


What? Were you drunk typing


----------



## plowzilla (Nov 19, 2004)

ScottPA;886538 said:


> Smoking sure does look disgusting and smells disgusting. Wish they would ban them frigging' things. Maybe health insurance rates would go down to where a self employed person could afford it. Got a quote from Blue cross for me and my wife and they wanted almost 1,200$ a month, and were only 25 Y.o.


Unbelievable!!! This is an awesome thread. Lets get to the facts. #1. Why is smoking such an issue? Answer= It kills they say. Reality= Yes they possibly can. So does the truck your driving, or heart disease from cheeseburgers at Mc Donalds, or liver disease from an occasional drink, or diabetes from that bag of candy you use to help you stay awake!!!. Stick to the facts everyone. #2. It smells. Well it smells good to me!! I hate the smell of liver cooking so lets ban that as well. I also dislike the smell of old lady perfume and with all the chemicals in that I might get brain tumors so lets ban perfume too!!! #3. Health insurance rates, this is the best one. Facts= Everybody and the brother are law suit happy. Law suits cost the insurance industry hundreds of billions. Being in our industry alone is a great example. Some falls and bruises their hip- they are ok but their brother says to them, "go to the emergency room and pretend your seriously hurt and then sue, sue everyone. And then sue the DR. because of miss diagnosis."
It costs billions for this. 
In our great country your entitled to your opinions. But if anyone wishes to make theirs known, don't just listen to the media looking to make news for $$$. Get the facts and then keep it real. Right now you can still do this in America, but sadly, our freedoms are being taken away little by little.
As most may have figured out, I smoke. I love it. I need to quit, yes. But I would like to do it on my terms, given to me by my constitution for pursuit of HAPPINESS. Given to me by my CREATOR, that all of us are equal. Not by a fat [email protected]# politician listening to his supports$$$ while eating a bacon double cheeseburger, that will clog his arteries and kill him, unless he get hit by A PLOW TRUCK FIRST!!!!
I LOVE THIS THREAD, THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR OPINIONS.


----------



## MileHigh (Nov 6, 2007)

One of the reason's why I own my own business..

I smoke anytime, or anywhere I want.

While shoveling a walk my stupid shovelers missed...or laying some fat stripes down cutting grass...you'll see me puffing on a smoke.


----------



## CMU07 (Sep 29, 2009)

I love this tread too. It wasn't that many years ago that doctors and nurses were still smoking in hospitals. 
But all the money and time spent putting a negative spin on it has really paid off. To be told that smoking is unprofessional!?!? What's unprofessional is disrespecting a no smoking policy. The act of smoking itself, not so much, just that good ol stereotype stuck to smoking. 
And is it unprofessional for a builder or paver or what-have-you to take his shirt off in the middle of summer, I don't think so. Who blames them? Those are hard, hot jobs. I wear pants and shirts all summer, but thats a regulation and a choice (I have chicken legs! haha)


----------



## ScottPA (Nov 11, 2009)

plowzilla;889863 said:


> Unbelievable!!! This is an awesome thread. Lets get to the facts. #1. Why is smoking such an issue? Answer= It kills they say. Reality= Yes they possibly can. So does the truck your driving, or heart disease from cheeseburgers at Mc Donalds, or liver disease from an occasional drink, or diabetes from that bag of candy you use to help you stay awake!!!. Stick to the facts everyone. #2. It smells. Well it smells good to me!! I hate the smell of liver cooking so lets ban that as well. I also dislike the smell of old lady perfume and with all the chemicals in that I might get brain tumors so lets ban perfume too!!! #3. Health insurance rates, this is the best one. Facts= Everybody and the brother are law suit happy. Law suits cost the insurance industry hundreds of billions. Being in our industry alone is a great example. Some falls and bruises their hip- they are ok but their brother says to them, "go to the emergency room and pretend your seriously hurt and then sue, sue everyone. And then sue the DR. because of miss diagnosis."
> It costs billions for this.
> In our great country your entitled to your opinions. But if anyone wishes to make theirs known, don't just listen to the media looking to make news for $$$. Get the facts and then keep it real. Right now you can still do this in America, but sadly, our freedoms are being taken away little by little.
> As most may have figured out, I smoke. I love it. I need to quit, yes. But I would like to do it on my terms, given to me by my constitution for pursuit of HAPPINESS. Given to me by my CREATOR, that all of us are equal. Not by a fat [email protected]# politician listening to his supports$$$ while eating a bacon double cheeseburger, that will clog his arteries and kill him, unless he get hit by A PLOW TRUCK FIRST!!!!
> I LOVE THIS THREAD, THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR OPINIONS.


Haha, yes you are right it is my opinion....I can think of about 8 people I know personally that have died in my life time from smoking,so excuse me if I get a little angry at smoking.
Had they have eaten cheeseburgers or snickers candybars instead of smoking..who knows they might still be around today.


----------



## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

In Ontario you cannot smoke in company vehicles, regardless of who you are and you cannot smoke in vehicles when children are passengers.

I smoke, and I still smoke in my company truck. I may get fined someday but its the chance I'll have to take. tymusic


----------



## Ladysnowmover (Dec 3, 2009)

You must really be a hard person to work for, to much control over your people. I look at it this way, if the ladies I hire smoke, thats fine. Over the years I have never had a problem, they smoke in thier own trucks. Thier productivity is high cuz they are doing what they want and getting the job done. I have been a smoker for 31 years, don't have any thought of quitting, and the crew I have hired this winter all smoke, not that I went out looking for plow drivers who smoke, but it just turned out that way. But to control your workers by not letting them wear shorts in the summer heat is going a bit to far. 
Lastly, my opinion on all these stupid smoking laws, these regulations were put in place to apease the morons who worry about everyones business but their own, they think they have won a victory, I say let the go on thinking that, but the thing that bothers me the most, is they still allow television ads for beer, wine and hard booze, has any of you out there ever heard of a driver killing someone while smoking a cigarette? or does smoking to much in a bar cause fights? 
Again we can talk about this forever, cuz everyone has a different opinion.


----------



## MattR (Jan 4, 2009)

How about making it illegal to fart in public? Some people can really drop a huge stink bomb and that amount of methane cannot be good for me. I would rather smell a cigarette than some nasty rotten bean fart. I do smoke yet trying to quit. Even if I can manage to quit, I still feel people have the right to smoke. Afterall anything can kill you, even exercise can be deadly.

Matt


----------



## poopdeckpappy (Oct 31, 2009)

With the economy in the shape its in today,you can find 30 guys within 1 day to replace him.Maybe 5 keepers out of the bunch.Then comes the weeding through those.If the guys a keeper, by all means communicate your wishes to him.If hes pissin on your porch,then kick him off!


----------



## snowplowchick (Feb 22, 2008)

Only six of us are non-smokers, the rest of us(between occasional subs and regulars) number about 10 and they all smoke in the equipment. All brand new equipment, it is terrible. But, honestly, they would not work if they couldn't smoke.

And you wouldn't believe the cigarette burns in the equipment. A few in each machine. 

I hate it, I know it is against the law, but what can you do? There aren't enough decent people willing to plow for hours on end so to get rid of these guys who, for the most part are good, would be a bad idea.

If you are plowing in a vehicle/piece of equipment that isn't lettered up, the smoking in the workplace bylaw here in Ontario is not what is going to get you pulled over by the police at 3am during a snowstorm!


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

The perception and image of smoking has changed over the years. As sad as it may seem, in the early 70's when I took drivers ed one of the first things our instructor asked you is "do you smoke?" If you answered yes he would ask you to light up while driving. He taught us how to hold it, crack the windows and flick the ash in such a manor as to not burn the rider sitting behind you should your hots fall off, and how to screw around with the fm converter while keeping your eyes on the road.

Times sure have changed.


----------



## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

TCLA;890974 said:


> The perception and image of smoking has changed over the years. As sad as it may seem, in the early 70's when I took drivers ed one of the first things our instructor asked you is "do you smoke?" If you answered yes he would ask you to light up while driving. He taught us how to hold it, crack the windows and flick the ash in such a manor as to not burn the rider sitting behind you should your hots fall off, and how to screw around with the fm converter while keeping your eyes on the road.
> 
> Times sure have changed.


WoW!!!!...You are OLD!!!!!....:laughing:..Its true, the same thing happend to me when i took drivers-ed in 1979..Times have sure changed..


----------



## Luther (Oct 31, 2007)

congratulations on you kicking the habit Mr. Matson......:salute:


----------



## Matson Snow (Oct 3, 2009)

TCLA;891003 said:


> congratulations on you kicking the habit Mr. Matson......:salute:


Nothing WORSE than a reformed smoker....


----------



## briggsguy17 (Nov 20, 2009)

FedEx is involved in a huge lawsuit right now. All FedEx drivers are subcontractors and own the equipment that they drive. The lawsuit contends that FedEx has instituted rules and regulations for these "subs" that would, by definition, make them employees. The drivers have several State Attorney General's on their side. Be careful about rules and regs for subs or you may find yourself with some "extra" employees and be required to pay worker's comp, payroll taxes, insurance, etc...... from the date that you "hired" them.


----------



## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

Excellent point Briggsguy.


----------



## TSherman (Dec 4, 2009)

Smoking is only a right if your smaller than me! LOL

I do not allow smoking in my equipment, or right around me, outside of that what can I enforce? If I catch my guys....done, if I catch my subs I give them a hard time...but what can I really do? I am not silly enough to launch someone for smoking if they are a good worker. 

I generally find when I respect my guys, they respect me. I stop often enough for them to fill up on cancer, cause lets face it....they are shoveling snow....LIFE SUCKS! You need to take care of them and they will take care of you.


----------



## TSherman (Dec 4, 2009)

TommyMac;887279 said:


> So you don't allow smoking in the truck's or @ the job's....Guy's must love you & listen too :laughing: .....And no short's in the summer & you have employee's.....work must be real hard to find in your area if guy's are putting up with that BS


hahahahahahahahahahahaha! He does however require jack boots and short hair cuts! LOL


----------



## The Big Push (Dec 10, 2009)

I work as a sub operating another guys equipment. I smoke like they're going out of style when I'm plowing. There's just nothing else to do. I think it depends on how long the poor guy is on a particular site. I've got one site that takes 20 hours with 20 guys on average. If they expect me to not smoke for 20 hours then they've got another thing coming. I can understand that it doesn't look professional, but it would be a lot less professional when I punch out the first poor bugger that makes me hit my brakes. I know that it's still my problem, but after 15 hours of not smoking I'd imagine I'd be ready to punch a baby. (I think I may have rage issues too) (By the way, Strongarm, there was still alot of money to be made with that old 52" Bobcat mower that you traded in a couple years ago at Duke)


----------



## bub3020 (Feb 25, 2009)

*???*

you guys that dont allow smoking and can still find help must be in an area with few jobs.


----------



## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

what about snow blower exhaust ? Thats smoking .Explain the difference ?


----------



## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

POWER TO THE SMOKERS wesport


----------



## Deco (Nov 14, 2009)

easy concord boy , e a s y :laughing:

go change the oil in that pete


----------



## Mackman (Nov 3, 2009)

Deco;897823 said:


> easy concord boy , e a s y :laughing:
> 
> go change the oil in that pete


LMAO:laughing:

Petes good to go. Its didnt move today. Guess it called out sick.


----------

