# Help pricing parking lot..



## 07PSDCREW

Hello all, I'm looking for ideas on how to price this lot. Im already in and was told i can do it as his father is now too old to be doing it. I don't want to rip the guy off but I also don't want to do it for free. I do mostly sub work and really don't know the best method to go about billing fairly. I have plowed this lot twice during Nemo and it took roughly 1- 1.5 hrs each time with a straight blade and 15" of snow. The snow goes where the big red dots are and some can go where the little dots are. Pretty much straight in the access road and then a bunch of trips back n forth to the piles in each direction. There's no salting or shoveling and 2" or less he dosent want service. I know MY costs involved in the project but was hoping for some advice as far as structure, or best method to bill. I was thinking of going in increments but also torn into going with a flat rate charge based on snow depth like 12" or less is xxxx$..... Idk. Ideas please?? Plowing equipment is a F350 diesel and 8'6" XV.


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## Buswell Forest

Per push with a trigger set by the customer. Looks like I would want $120 to $130 a push if it were mine up here. More if I had to push around cars....carrying the snow sucketh, but ya do what ya have to. Maybe a set of wings?


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## 07PSDCREW

Thanks for the ideas.. Removeable wings are on the list. Just picked up the new plow a few days ago.  Also, there won't be many cars in the lot if any at all. ( If its an overnight snow) The place opens at noon and closes at 8 or 9 pm On one side people park on either side of the lot and I can go straight down the middle but in that upper portion they makeshift some side by side parking rows when the place gets busy. It wouldn't be feasible to try to plow in that condition other than to open it up a bit. 

So when you say per push with a trigger... That means with say a 4" trigger I'd plow and then plow again at the next 4"?? And charge 220$ (going by your price) What if say I made a 4" trigger but didn't visit till 8-10" fell ? (being closed overnite no hurry) you would still charge twice for one visit? Thanks in advance.


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## BossPlowMaster

id bill for the amount of time it take you. i have no set price because im not from around there and i dont know what you need to get per hour to stay on top of the game. around here we start at 2" trigger and get from $60-75 per hour for a truck. (no clue what the going price is around there) assuming that this is a business you would plow every time the 2" trigger was hit. so if you had a total storm amount you would take [# of times plowed @ 2" trigger] x [ price based off of hours]

****Example;
Total snow fall amount (only known after the storm) = 6".... you would have to plow 3 times @ 2" trigger. If it takes you 2 hours per 2" trigger @ $65/hr ($130 per time) 2"x 3 visits of 2hrs per visit = $390.... best way as far as billing goes> is to bill after every storm that way there is no piling up of bills for a total month (Less of a shock to the customer)


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## 07PSDCREW

Thanks Boss. Well explained. I know what I need to charge... Just didn't want to scare the guy by coming too many times. We've been known to have 20+ inches fall in one storm.


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## BossPlowMaster

07PSDCREW;1667297 said:


> Thanks Boss. Well explained. I know what I need to charge... Just didn't want to scare the guy by coming too many times. We've been known to have 20+ inches fall in one storm.


Remember you can always bid it a little high and be on the safe side and end up surprising the customer with a lower bill than expected... but it is bad business to surprise them with an over time bill and unexpected costs. If you have any other questions just PM me. I dont have alot of experience in this field as I am only 17 but then again I started my own landscaping company at age 10 and it is now worth $100k and I have some really good experience and wisdom to share


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## 07PSDCREW

Good to know... Thanks Bossplow..


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## grandview

Seasonal price billed over 4-5 payments,this way they aren't surprised by a big bill one month and a small one the next.


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## chachi1984

you can use this site to find the area size
http://www.findlotsize.com/


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## Buswell Forest

07PSDCREW;1667294 said:


> Thanks for the ideas.. Removeable wings are on the list. Just picked up the new plow a few days ago.  Also, there won't be many cars in the lot if any at all. ( If its an overnight snow) The place opens at noon and closes at 8 or 9 pm On one side people park on either side of the lot and I can go straight down the middle but in that upper portion they makeshift some side by side parking rows when the place gets busy. It wouldn't be feasible to try to plow in that condition other than to open it up a bit.
> 
> So when you say per push with a trigger... That means with say a 4" trigger I'd plow and then plow again at the next 4"?? And charge 220$ (going by your price) What if say I made a 4" trigger but didn't visit till 8-10" fell ? (being closed overnite no hurry) you would still charge twice for one visit? Thanks in advance.


Triggers usually only count when the business is open...otherwise, as a general rule, most guys doing "per push" will just let it accumulate and do it once, maybe 2 times if it's a larger storm. More for those once a year monsters. Just so as not to risk getting stuck.
This policy gives customers a sense of value, so they don't choke so bad at the other stuff.
And when I say per push with a trigger, if I come push 3 times, I charge 3 times.
But, things vary with location. If your customer is used to seasonal, or per event, then do it the way they like.


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## 07PSDCREW

That's one of the things I have going for me....he's never paid anyone to plow before. He opened a business in 2004 and his father was doing the plowing free. (His father financed the purchase of the building too). But due to health reasons and old age (81) he can't do it anymore. I'm thinking I'm just going to go with an hourly rate but just wanted to see the type of structures everyone else uses for determining a fair billing method.


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## Buswell Forest

Hourly rate is fine if all you are doing is his lot, and only for beer money..otherwise you are selling yourself short...because you can average $150+ per hour doing $35 driveways if they are within 1/2 mile of each other....and I somehow doubt this fellow will want to pay that sort of hourly wage. Per push or by the inch gives you what you are worth.
JMO.


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## jrs.landscaping

Buswell Forest;1667785 said:


> *Hourly rate is fine if all you are doing is his lot, and only for beer money..otherwise you are selling yourself short*...because you can average $150+ per hour doing $35 driveways if they are within 1/2 mile of each other....and I somehow doubt this fellow will want to pay that sort of hourly wage. Per push or by the inch gives you what you are worth.
> JMO.


How do you figure? If he gets (for example) $100 per hour and it takes one hour or does per push at $100?

We do seasonal and hourly and hourly can work out just as well as per push if you price your equipment right.

On the second part, if you can plow four $35 driveways in 15 minutes a piece (not including travel) then :salute:


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## Buswell Forest

People hear "$100 an hour" and get sticker shock. So most guys will just lower the hourly price until the customer agrees, or they just price themselves low right out of the gate thinking that $45-$60 per hour is good money.
We all know the average American thinks 6 of one is less than half a dozen of the same thing. So I feel we have better luck with a set price per push...the customer sees it as a job done for "x" rather than "$100 an hour"..even though they add up the same..
And like I said, if you have any luck at all, you can set up a series of driveways that are near each other..I figure 10 minutes is a good number for the average $35 driveway..otherwise, it would be a $40 or $45 driveway, right? So $150 an hour isn't unreasonable if the accounts are close by.

And $150 is better than $100, right?


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## grandview

If your under an hour you should just be quoting per plow pricing.


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## BC Handyman

grandview;1668122 said:


> If your under an hour you should just be quoting per plow pricing.


agreed, I think the only place for hourly rates in this industry is on jobs that are several acres &/or take several hrs.


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## jrs.landscaping

grandview;1668122 said:


> If your under an hour you should just be quoting per plow pricing.





BC Handyman;1668159 said:


> agreed, I think the only place for hourly rates in this industry is on jobs that are several acres &/or take several hrs.


Agree 100%, residential hourly would never work, most commercial lots (other than gas/convenience stores) take an hour or more in my area. So it could be billed hourly if that was what the customer wanted.

To say people working hourly are working for "beer money" is ignorant IMHO.........


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## Buswell Forest

jrs.landscaping;1668165 said:


> Agree 100%, residential hourly would never work, most commercial lots (other than gas/convenience stores) take an hour or more in my area. So it could be billed hourly if that was what the customer wanted.
> 
> To say people working hourly are working for "beer money" is ignorant IMHO.........


Who said that?


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## grandview

I work for beer money,I just happen to have a lot left over after I buy it!


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## jrs.landscaping

grandview;1668264 said:


> I work for beer money,I just happen to have a lot left over after I buy it!


I might have to steal that for my sig


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## 07PSDCREW

Just wanted to update, I presented two options to the customer. Per push rate and a seasonal price based off the average snowfall + a little extra for this area. Waiting to hear back from the gent to see if I can seal the deal. Thanks for all of your help eveyone.


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## 07PSDCREW

So I hadn't heard from the guy In a while. I sent him an email to see what he thought. This was my response...

Leon,

It's not that you scared me, it's just that I'm currently paying very little for plowing. I really would only be interested in a per season rate, but would have a real challenge with paying $1,700 on a maybe. If it were more in the $1,000 range I could do it, but $1,700 is just so incredibly far from what it costs me now. I appreciate the quote and do understand you have costs.

Thanks,
Todd

Todd H. Anderson
President

So I think I'm going to pass on this one and let him use the other guy..


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## jrs.landscaping

I think your price was more than fair. 1k divided by 20 pushes is $50 per push, I agree and say let the other guy have it........


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## Buswell Forest

$1000 for the season? That is a big lot for that money. How much snow in an average year there?


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## nepatsfan

1700 and he said NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! run, run, run, run!
what does 1700 on a maybe mean?


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## 07PSDCREW

I looked up the average snowfall for the town and it was about 62" 1700.00 on a maybe= whether or not it snows this year if it would be worth it for him. No snow= lost money for him. I'm sure whoever is doing it now is plowing for beer money and not paying insurances and truck maint. Maybe it's his only lot... I'm all set. I did leave it open that if he needed me to call me and I will charge accordingly then....more than what I figured per push previously. Thanks guys for all the suggestions and help


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## 07PSDCREW

Well now that I left it that I wasn't going to drop my price, he's emailing me back that he'd like me to do it and he will pay the price I quoted. Is it possible to now require full payment to ensure no funny buisness later on?
Thanks


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## BossPlowMaster

07PSDCREW;1672355 said:


> Well now that I left it that I wasn't going to drop my price, he's emailing me back that he'd like me to do it and he will pay the price I quoted. Is it possible to now require full payment to ensure no funny buisness later on?
> Thanks


Giver.... Now he will have to realize that saving money is a business thing and that you could have saved him before all of this but now you have made up other work and now he is going to have to pay for his time slot full price. And tell him now that if he signs up for next year right away that you will save him some more money next year.


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## nepatsfan

I would tell him you need a check for the full amount and if he says no tell him you need half now and half on 1/1.


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## Nero

$1.700 +++++ or like they say, run away as fast as you can.


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## Buswell Forest

Written contract, typed out, signed by him and you and another person as a witness. If he refuses full paymnet up front, and he will, then give him the 1/2 and 1/2 deal. Half now, half on Feb. 1st. And have it written in the contract that you will charge 7% interest every day he is late with the second payment.
Have that line signed separately. Since he jerked you once already, don't feel bad about being a hardass now.
If he cries like a baby, ask him if he ever gets a tank of gas and pays the station after he has used it.
Ask him if he pays interest on a late credit card payment.


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## 07PSDCREW

Buswell Forest;1672449 said:


> Written contract, typed out, signed by him and you and another person as a witness. If he refuses full paymnet up front, and he will, then give him the 1/2 and 1/2 deal. Half now, half on Feb. 1st. And have it written in the contract that you will charge 7% interest every day he is late with the second payment.
> Have that line signed separately. Since he jerked you once already, don't feel bad about being a hardass now.
> If he cries like a baby, ask him if he ever gets a tank of gas and pays the station after he has used it.
> Ask him if he pays interest on a late credit card payment.


Wow that info was more than helpful! Thank you. Good stuff....


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## BC Handyman

Buswell Forest;1672449 said:


> If he cries like a baby, ask him if he ever gets a tank of gas and pays the station after he has used it.
> Ask him if he pays interest on a late credit card payment.


 I got a whining policy sign in my office


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## JD Dave

Why would he pay you 1/2 or in full. Break it out into 4 or 5 monthly payments and go from there. Try not to pass judgement on people until they give you a reason to do so.


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## grandview

grandview;1667697 said:


> Seasonal price billed over 4-5 payments,this way they aren't surprised by a big bill one month and a small one the next.





JD Dave;1672522 said:


> Why would he pay you 1/2 or in full. Break it out into 4 or 5 monthly payments and go from there. Try not to pass judgement on people until they give you a reason to do so.


Thumbs Uppayup


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## Buswell Forest

JD Dave;1672522 said:


> Why would he pay you 1/2 or in full. Break it out into 4 or 5 monthly payments and go from there. Try not to pass judgement on people until they give you a reason to do so.


Well....the guy did jerk our boy around...and $1700 (or around that number I assume) spread over 5 payments is $340. While on the face of it, that is fine and dandy, lets be honest..nothing gets done in this world anymore unless you have a lump sum to do it with. And $340 is nothing anymore.
I would hope the guy can swing 2 payments of $850.
If you think about it, 5 payments is nearly a "per push" system.


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## grandview

Actually,the most you'll be out if he stiffs you is one month.


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## jrs.landscaping

I don't get how he jerked him around? What happened is all part of playing the game..........


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## Buswell Forest

He wasn't playing any game when he gave the man his best price. He was straight up. But the customer tried boning him. I bet a dollar to a donut there was never any other lower bid.
IMO, the client showed true colors. That warrants due diligence on the part of our boy here.


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## Buswell Forest

grandview;1672597 said:


> Actually,the most you'll be out if he stiffs you is one month.


With a strong written contract, there is no stiffing to be found.
If the client stiffs, let it slide with a letter per week. After a few months, and a thousand bucks in interest, take him to court.


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## jrs.landscaping

So as a business you never try to lower a vendors price?


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## nepatsfan

there is a legal limit to how much interest you can legally charge. I believe somewhere around 28% per year. We do 2% per month. You can put whatever you want in the contract, if it's against the law it won't stand.


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## nepatsfan

Why would you guys want to break up 1700 into 5 payments? I would do it if I had to but I would attempt to get it in 1 or 2 lump sums if they would go for it.


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## grandview

I think the problem is,they plowed it themselves so they may not be in the know about contracting, yes he put his bid in and he was negotiating the price and nothing was agreed upon.And if you use your contract do you have a non payment clause. ? If you don't show up ,he could sue you.


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## JD Dave

The plow guy can screw the property owner just as bad as the owner can screw the plow guy. Break it out into 4 or 5 payments and it's fair for everyone. Going in demanding he pay you half before any work is done is a joke. I'd tell you to go pound sand. He gave him a price, the owner tried to get him down a lot and he couldn't so he agreed to his pricing. The owner did nothing wrong.


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## grandview

nepatsfan;1672644 said:


> Why would you guys want to break up 1700 into 5 payments? I would do it if I had to but I would attempt to get it in 1 or 2 lump sums if they would go for it.


From my biggest to the smallest they are based on 5 payment. Maybe this is why why I've kept them more then a dozen yrs with out problems.


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## Nero

5 payments


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## 07PSDCREW

Hey guys, for some reason I never got any notifications of the thread here. But anyway, I appreciate everyone's help on this. 
I did get the job. I wrote up a contract between us and I received a check for half and a gate key. Then two days later we just got this massive storm here last night. I got a phone call today from him saying that I did an awesome job on the lot and that he (the Cust) was glad he didn't let me get away. He said he realized now that he was paying for quality work and apologized for trying to bring my price down. 
Apparently, whomever was plowing before had no idea how to stack and would just push straight into a pile. He said last year the snow in the piles was no more than 4-5ft tall and ate up almost 1/4 of his front lot. We just got roughly 10-12" and he still has all his spaces. (Thanks to my brand new XV! ).


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## MajorDave

Sweet pics - nice job - and good negotiation…I've been following! Now send him a Christmas Card and blow his mind! (seriously!)


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## 07PSDCREW

MajorDave;1686606 said:


> Sweet pics - nice job - and good negotiation…I've been following! Now send him a Christmas Card and blow his mind! (seriously!)


It's funny you mention that... The wife just picked up the Christmas cards the day before the storm... I think I will. Thanks Dave.


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## MajorDave

Its all the little things that add up, man… (plus that little thing about knowing how to plow…)


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