# 6.0 No power lots of smoke when cold. Any techs?



## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

I've got a 2005 Ford E450at work with the 6.0 that lately has been exhibiting a low power and high smoke issue, only when cold. After she warms up she runs perfect. I'm thinking egr, but havent dove into it yet. Anymore ideas before i dive into it? I dont really remember the low power being an issue last time we had an egr go bad. Thanks in advance!


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## Castlerockmo (Nov 8, 2010)

My 05 did that, turns out had a bad EGR and oil cooler.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Castlerockmo;1135230 said:


> My 05 did that, turns out had a bad EGR and oil cooler.


Just going to say that.

Get an aftermarket replacement for it, and while you're at it, add head studs.


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

mnglocker;1135235 said:


> Just going to say that.
> 
> Get an aftermarket replacement for it, and while you're at it, add head studs.


HEAD STUDS? are you nuts? :laughing: did you notice its an E-Series?! I'll have a hard enough time getting to the egr!


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Holland;1135326 said:


> HEAD STUDS? are you nuts? :laughing: did you notice its an E-Series?! I'll have a hard enough time getting to the egr!


Cabs gotta come off for either one.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Or you could just trade it in for a Dodge.:laughing:


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

That and its not like its chipped or hauling a huge load. Its a E450 chassis with a 14 pass bus body. Ive got 13 E-450s in service, not to mention 8 minivans, two suvs, two straight trucks, a pickup, snowblowers, lawnmowers, weedtrimmers, etc to take care of. And im the only guy to work on them. I keep busy!

This is our newest unit. 2009 E450 6.0L. Just picked it up this spring. Ive got two 02s, one 03, two 05s, four 08s and two 09s. All diesels except two of the 08s have v10s in them.


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

mnglocker;1135333 said:


> Cabs gotta come off for either one.


Actually, the book calls for removing the motor mounts and dropping the engine down for the egr on an e-series.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Holland;1135353 said:


> Actually, the book calls for removing the motor mounts and dropping the engine down for the egr on an e-series.


Still sounds like a PITA. I vote for Cummins 12v conversion kits in all of the 6.0l vans.


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

From bulletproofdiesel.com



> The Symptoms of a Bad EGR Cooler
> 
> Symptom #1: The unexplained loss of coolant from your degas (overflow) bottle or cooling system. This can easily be explained when you have a bad EGR cooler - the EGR cooler is simply leaking the coolant back into the exhaust system, not outside of the engine. Most people make an expensive mistake of ignoring this warning sign. They assume that since they can not find or see the leak, it must not actually be a leak. The longer they ignore it, the more coolant that leaks out of the engine and quickly creates warning sign #2
> 
> ...


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## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

Just looking at the upgraded oil cooler makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with the engineers at ford to begin with.


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## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

It starts when cold like hell. Shudders and smokes, you can run faster then it goes down the road for the first 200 yards? My ambulance at work, it was the EGR and the injectors. On an E-350 Super Duty 6.0 PSD. It came back from Ford and they said to put 4oz of Cetane Booster in the tank on each fill up. You floor it and it throws a plume of black smoke. Then it just launches into acceleration! It spools right up into it's sweet spot! I love this engine!


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## matt418235 (Nov 20, 2010)

what you have here is an injector issue. if the engine runs very rough and then smooths out after it is warmed up it is an injector issue. take the vehicle to your local ford dealer and ask them to see if it has the latest program for the ficm and pcm. if it does not have the latest have them reprogram the ficm pcm and tcm and it should take care of your issue. if not you are going to most likly need and injector or so. the 60 has an isssue with oil getting on the wrong side of the plunger inside the injector and causes this problem. the new program will cycle the injectors in a different fashion and will solve this problem. i am a diesel tech at a ford dealer and have seen this many of times and the reprogram will fix it.


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

It doesnt run rough at all though. Still the problem in your opinion matt?


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## Barrakudaman (Sep 8, 2010)

my 04' ford f350 truck had the same issue. The ford dealer installed the latest updates in the pcm. and now it starts with no issue in the cold again.


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## Dissociative (Feb 28, 2007)

FICM or turbo


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

Read through this and keep it on hand  :

http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/60bulletin.htm


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

Good info. Thanks!


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## got-h2o (Sep 26, 2008)

No sweat. My cold start/run issues turned out being the FICM at 223k. They offer several reflashes, but they don't always work.


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## matt418235 (Nov 20, 2010)

if it does not run rough it is most likely going to be a stuck egr valve. if the valve is stuck open just a bit at cold the engine will smoke and have a low power concern. also try to not let the vehicle idle more than 5 min. after 5 min of idle the egr valve will be commanded open to run the exhaust temps down for emmisons reason. this will carbon up the valve and cause issues as well. the valve can be a mother to change on the e series just because it is jamed in there. also along with a valve replacement i would also say to run cetane booster at ever tank full as well well help with the carbon issue as well and still have the pcm reflashed.


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

I would like to be able to not have them idle, but they are all equipped with wheelchair lifts and by the time you lift a person in and strap them down, seatbelt them in, sometimes multiple wheelchairs, the vehilce has be sitting there for quite some time. Less idle time isnt an option.


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## ultimate plow (Jul 2, 2002)

Alos its not good to romp on it when it nots fully warmed up. In the winter time theres no way 5 minute warm up time is gonna cut it.


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

They all sit inside at night. Shop stays 55-60 degrees at night. Takes im guessing 3 to 5 miles of driving to clear up, by that time my driver has choked out half the town!


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## matt418235 (Nov 20, 2010)

i would also suggest have a high idle switch put in if they have to idle for a period of time it will help keep the carbon deposit issue down and not have as many issues


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

built in automatic high idle. comes with the interlock system for the bus body.


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## MickiRig1 (Dec 5, 2003)

It should have the high idle setup when you set the parking brake. Every E-350 we have has it. Put the cetane booster in the tanks too. It keeps the coking down on the EGR and Injectors


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## nevrnf (Oct 12, 2005)

Guys here is a fix for a lot of the cold issues with the 6.0. 1st start with a oil change with Valvoline Premium Blue Synthetic 5-40. This oil has been proven to lessen the sticking spool valves in the injectors that cause cold start issues. 2nd is to use Rev-X oil additive every 3rd oil change (15k) Rev-x has proven repeatedly to eliminate sticking spool valves. I have been using this combo a multiple trucks that have had repeated issues with great success.
As far as the EGR and cooler goes. Ditch it on a vehicle that sees extended idle time. This system is the cause of More issues with the 6.0.


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## Holland (Aug 18, 2010)

nevrnf;1148020 said:


> Guys here is a fix for a lot of the cold issues with the 6.0. 1st start with a oil change with Valvoline Premium Blue Synthetic 5-40. This oil has been proven to lessen the sticking spool valves in the injectors that cause cold start issues. 2nd is to use Rev-X oil additive every 3rd oil change (15k) Rev-x has proven repeatedly to eliminate sticking spool valves. I have been using this combo a multiple trucks that have had repeated issues with great success.
> As far as the EGR and cooler goes. Ditch it on a vehicle that sees extended idle time. This system is the cause of More issues with the 6.0.


This vehicle has 166,000 miles and 7,180 hrs. This is the first issue ,other than a high pressure oil leak, that ive ever had with it. So I'm going to guess that i'm doing something right with my maintenance program and that oil isnt my problem.


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## damian (Jan 29, 2009)

matt is probably right sighting injector sticktion issues,i would check ficm main power 48v i wouldnt want to see less than 40v.an overly simplified explaination: it is easier for a weak ficm to valve/switch warm injectors than cold ones that is why 5/30 or 5/40 synthetic works so well with the 6.0 and even 7.3 engines. a weak ficm could cause poor cold performance but good perf when warmed up.sticking egr valves and egr coolers will never give you peace with a 6.0. egr delete at first oppertunity.plugged oil coolers contribute to egr cooler issues and over heater injectors, watch your oil temp. good luck


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