# bidding frustration help!



## Xxwhiteneonxx (Oct 12, 2016)

So I bid my first commercial lot last week and I quoted 175$ to plow 2 lots, salt them, shovel stairs and walkways, and salt stairs and walkways. I don't think my price is rediculous considering I'm going to have 50$ in salt alone.. 

They got back to me and told me somebody quoted 65$ per push to plow and salt their place. There's no way this is an actual business with insurance.. frustrating because I'm starting out on my own and doing things correctly with insurances and legal documents and such and the unprofessional guy is getting the work. . Just kind of frustrated.


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Welcome to low baller central


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

dieselss said:


> Welcome to low baller central


Did you talk to the client about it? Whenever someone says well this bid came in xxx can you do it for that? I reply with something like this.

Listen mr so and so, for that price there is no way the other guy is paying for insurance, taxes, work comp, maintenance etc. Knowing your numbers helps this conversation a lot. Tell them it costs this for this and for that etc. if you want dependable service that is covered under insurance etc. then you should go with me. Ask them politely how they would like to pay an insurance claim for an illegal business that just ran one of their customers over in parking lot. I have to say probably 75% of the time if you do a good job nicely educating the client on why it's a bad idea to hire the low baller, they will go with you. If they don't after explaining it to them you really didn't want them as a customer anyway. They are going to be problems down the road and will try to throw you under the bus if something does go wrong rather than working with you to remedy the situation. Hang in there. Don't stoop to the lowball prices. You will end up with an awesome client list that you don't have to stress over.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Oops meant to quote the OP not you dieselThumbs Up


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## areoseek (Mar 13, 2013)

OP, you must be near the great lakes. Sounds like pricing up here. that's about average.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

areoseek said:


> OP, you must be near the great lakes. Sounds like pricing up here. that's about average.


Wow so after $50 in salt you only make $15 to plow and apply salt? Not worth it at all if those are going rates.


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## areoseek (Mar 13, 2013)

ktfbgb said:


> Wow so after $50 in salt you only make $15 to plow and apply salt? Not worth it at all if those are going rates.


yep. you've gotta have pretty low overhead up here to survive. I had a residential with a 200ft driveway complain that I wanted 25$. called it outrageous. to this day, he's got some guy with a plow on his jeep doing it for 10$ a pop.

these people with a plow slapped on anything with wheels kill the pricing here, it's been a downward slope, but it will rebound.

it's like a 4 year cycle. Cheap, cheaper, cheapest, bankrupt. Once they strike out, we get our customers back appreciating good service. then the cycle begins again.


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## J.onathan (Nov 15, 2015)

Same boat from where I am, people only wanting to pay or saying they have paid in the past $50 a month for a large 2 car wide driveway and sidewalks.


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

Wow. Move on then and gather customers who appreciate quality work and have money. 

You will only attract more people like this if you have to convince them to pay you.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx (Oct 12, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> Did you talk to the client about it? Whenever someone says well this bid came in xxx can you do it for that? I reply with something like this.
> 
> Listen mr so and so, for that price there is no way the other guy is paying for insurance, taxes, work comp, maintenance etc. Knowing your numbers helps this conversation a lot. Tell them it costs this for this and for that etc. if you want dependable service that is covered under insurance etc. then you should go with me. Ask them politely how they would like to pay an insurance claim for an illegal business that just ran one of their customers over in parking lot. I have to say probably 75% of the time if you do a good job nicely educating the client on why it's a bad idea to hire the low baller, they will go with you. If they don't after explaining it to them you really didn't want them as a customer anyway. They are going to be problems down the road and will try to throw you under the bus if something does go wrong rather than working with you to remedy the situation. Hang in there. Don't stoop to the lowball prices. You will end up with an awesome client list that you don't have to stress over.


I'm glad you posted this. This is something I'm going to have to get across to businesses about. I need to add in my paperwork that I'm fully insured and don't get caught using somebody who isnt.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx (Oct 12, 2016)

areoseek said:


> OP, you must be near the great lakes. Sounds like pricing up here. that's about average.


Hour outside Pittsburgh pa.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

When you say 125 for salt, are you taking bulk salt or bagged salt? If you're using bags and a tailgate spreader it will be pretty easy for a guy to come in and do it for much cheaper. $60 is too cheap though, but they called you back. You still have hope of changing their mind.

Just did a rough guess on salt. If you're using bags I can get roughly the same amount in bulk for $35-40 or so with the prices around here.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx (Oct 12, 2016)

JMHConstruction said:


> When you say 125 for salt, are you taking bulk salt or bagged salt? If you're using bags and a tailgate spreader it will be pretty easy for a guy to come in and do it for much cheaper. $60 is too cheap though, but they called you back. You still have hope of changing their mind.
> 
> Just did a rough guess on salt. If you're using bags I can get roughly the same amount in bulk for $35-40 or so with the prices around here.


I'm not sure in the post where you seen 125. I'm using bags and I pay 8$ a bag delivered. I'm using sodium chloride which has a lower melting point than rock salt.

The 175 I quoted was to plow a employee/customer lot, plow the loading area, shovel the sidewalks and stairs, and then salt all of that.. I don't think 175 is bad considering that'll take around 5 bags at 8$ each. I mark my salt up a little but that's included in the price I quoted above.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> I'm not sure in the post where you seen 125. I'm using bags and I pay 8$ a bag delivered. I'm using sodium chloride which has a lower melting point than rock salt.
> 
> The 175 I quoted was to plow a employee/customer lot, plow the loading area, shovel the sidewalks and stairs, and then salt all of that.. I don't think 175 is bad considering that'll take around 5 bags at 8$ each. I mark my salt up a little but that's included in the price I quoted above.


Umm sodium chloride is salt. U mean calcium chloride or mag chloride?


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

J.onathan said:


> Same boat from where I am, people only wanting to pay or saying they have paid in the past $50 a month for a large 2 car wide driveway and sidewalks.


He's not talking about doing driveways.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

How big is this place? 50lb bags? By 8. So the other guy is going to put half of what you were going to do. He is doing this for beer, McDonald's money.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> I'm not sure in the post where you seen 125. I'm using bags and I pay 8$ a bag delivered. I'm using sodium chloride which has a lower melting point than rock salt.
> 
> The 175 I quoted was to plow a employee/customer lot, plow the loading area, shovel the sidewalks and stairs, and then salt all of that.. I don't think 175 is bad considering that'll take around 5 bags at 8$ each. I mark my salt up a little but that's included in the price I quoted above.


I'm sorry, it's been a long day....


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## Jeep_thing (Mar 3, 2014)

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> So I bid my first commercial lot last week and I quoted 175$ to plow 2 lots, salt them, shovel stairs and walkways, and salt stairs and walkways. I don't think my price is rediculous considering I'm going to have 50$ in salt alone..
> 
> They got back to me and told me somebody quoted 65$ per push to plow and salt their place. There's no way this is an actual business with insurance.. frustrating because I'm starting out on my own and doing things correctly with insurances and legal documents and such and the unprofessional guy is getting the work. . Just kind of frustrated.


Also remember, customers will lie in an attempt to get you to match it or negotiate.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx (Oct 12, 2016)

ktfbgb said:


> Umm sodium chloride is salt. U mean calcium chloride or mag chloride?


Sorry haha mag chloride.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx (Oct 12, 2016)

Randall Ave said:


> How big is this place? 50lb bags? By 8. So the other guy is going to put half of what you were going to do. He is doing this for beer, McDonald's money.


I totally agree that this guy is doing this for beer money as at that price there's no money to be made.

The 1 lot is a truck loading dock which is large enough for 2 semis to unload at the dock. The other lot is about a 15 car lot.

I'm using 50lb bags and I figured 2 bags for the loading area, 2 bags for the customer lot, and 1 bag for the walkways and stairs.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx (Oct 12, 2016)

Jeep_thing said:


> Also remember, customers will lie in an attempt to get you to match it or negotiate.


I do agree with you, but this is friends business so I don't think he would do that. He may, but I don't think. He told me he's actually embarrassed th of tell me what he's paying.. he said this because he told me whatever this guy quotes if I could come close to matching it I could have the job. When he called me and told me what they quoted I told him I can't touch that.


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## JCONTRACTING (Dec 5, 2016)

areoseek said:


> yep. you've gotta have pretty low overhead up here to survive. I had a residential with a 200ft driveway complain that I wanted 25$. called it outrageous. to this day, he's got some guy with a plow on his jeep doing it for 10$ a pop.
> 
> these people with a plow slapped on anything with wheels kill the pricing here, it's been a downward slope, but it will rebound.
> 
> it's like a 4 year cycle. Cheap, cheaper, cheapest, bankrupt. Once they strike out, we get our customers back appreciating good service. then the cycle begins again.


That's because of a certain so called "plow contractor" that owns car washes on 38th street, he screwed the whole market up here but he is starting to figure out that those other business's he runs will not keep him floating for long. Things are beginning to turn around here now, keep it going with the better pricing and we will weed the knuckleheads out!!


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## JCONTRACTING (Dec 5, 2016)

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> I do agree with you, but this is friends business so I don't think he would do that. He may, but I don't think. He told me he's actually embarrassed th of tell me what he's paying.. he said this because he told me whatever this guy quotes if I could come close to matching it I could have the job. When he called me and told me what they quoted I told him I can't touch that.


Stick with that answer and tell him to call you when he doesn't show up because the guys truck broke down. Then when there's 6"s of snow tell him you want $245 and paid in advance. Friend or not, this is BUSINESS! ;-)


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> I'm glad you posted this. This is something I'm going to have to get across to businesses about. I need to add in my paperwork that I'm fully insured and don't get caught using somebody who isnt.





Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> So I bid my first commercial lot last week and I quoted 175$ to plow 2 lots, salt them, shovel stairs and walkways, and salt stairs and walkways. I don't think my price is rediculous considering I'm going to have 50$ in salt alone..
> 
> They got back to me and told me somebody quoted 65$ per push to plow and salt their place. There's no way this is an actual business with insurance.. frustrating because I'm starting out on my own and doing things correctly with insurances and legal documents and such and the unprofessional guy is getting the work. . Just kind of frustrated.


You will run into these :terribletowel:all the time, Don't stress there is some smart clients out there, Those $65.00 guys don't last long, Your doing everything right, Don't worry about the low ballers. It cost money to run a legitimate business. Most probably can't even get proper liability's because there record or Credit rating.


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## areoseek (Mar 13, 2013)

JCONTRACTING said:


> That's because of a certain so called "plow contractor" that owns car washes on 38th street, he screwed the whole market up here but he is starting to figure out that those other business's he runs will not keep him floating for long. Things are beginning to turn around here now, keep it going with the better pricing and we will weed the knuckleheads out!!


Glad to see I'm not the only one who's picked up their customers. They do shi**y work, but hey, that's all they charge for.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> I'm glad you posted this. This is something I'm going to have to get across to businesses about. I need to add in my paperwork that I'm fully insured and don't get caught using somebody who isnt.


We don't provide any proof liability's till awarded the Job. No offense but your buddy that owns this property is must be some kind of :terribletoweloes he have any idea what could happen to him without a qualified Contractor. What is your location? I'm old enough were I can have a fall and get a nice settlement we can split. LOL Some friend does he have any idea what you will have invested in material and the storage.

Around here you don't have to tell them your fully insured, They will ask for proof before you are awarded the job on any Commercial. Your buddy might be blowing smoke, Don't count him out yet. Good Luck


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## Xxwhiteneonxx (Oct 12, 2016)

FredG said:


> We don't provide any proof liability's till awarded the Job. No offense but your buddy that owns this property is must be some kind of :terribletoweloes he have any idea what could happen to him without a qualified Contractor. What is your location? I'm old enough were I can have a fall and get a nice settlement we can split. LOL Some friend does he have any idea what you will have invested in material and the storage.
> 
> Around here you don't have to tell them your fully insured, They will ask for proof before you are awarded the job on any Commercial. Your buddy might be blowing smoke, Don't count him out yet. Good Luck


Haha I'm down with splitting the cash. and I guess I'm going to have to work on education of the customer. they should know the cost of business being they have one themselves. . I have storage, salt, a truck, equipment, a driver ( me), all the proper insurance, etc.. if they can't understand why I charge more than Jim Bob or whatever that hillbillies name is charging for beer money , I don't want them.


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