# Opinion: What are your feelings on using a Tractor



## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Anyone ever attempt to use a 4x4 Farm Tractor with a pusher on a commercial lot before? If so, did it work out or was the machine too big?


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

They are awesome. What kind & size are you thinking about, we use 90hp to 120hp. If its bigger than that JD Dave can help you out with advice, he runs the really big stuff.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Its a 1974 International 4386. I built a special pusher for it (16 ft. by 6 ft depth x 6.5 ft height). I think it will work out great but I wanted to see if anyone else has any input.


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

If you are using the bucket to push the snow you will need chains. I have used a 2003 4x4 40hp John Deere and an old 4x2 50hp Alis Chalmers. Neither one of them are any good in the snow and when the bucket fills up it will just sit there and spin. So if you use a tractor you should put chains on it and a blade that angles.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

That is a huge box pusher your talking about. Then again thats a monster tractor, I think 230 HP. You will be fine without chains. I think your mold board is very high, just harder to look over. Show us some pics when your done.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

I know a Canuck over in Ontario who was running them big ass Case machines with giant "pull boxes". Not sure if there still runnin em after they had one stolen in the middle of the day.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

haha well i hope no one "runs" off with one of my tractors. I have the inner/back tires loaded with calcium for weight, plus tractor weights on the back as well. my thought is that the machine sits during the winter so rather than buying another loader this coming season, I wanted to give that a shot. I figured it'd be a nice anchor machine for me at this one shopping center I have that's 1.9 million square feet.


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

i think it would work well......i seen a MF (400 cummins) with a big 20 footer for sale last year.....i don't see how you could beat thoes old tractors for the price.... dollar for dollar it's gotta be the cheapest HP out there by far..


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## Jay brown (Dec 26, 2005)

mercer_me;594893 said:


> If you are using the bucket to push the snow you will need chains. I have used a 2003 4x4 40hp John Deere and an old 4x2 50hp Alis Chalmers. Neither one of them are any good in the snow and when the bucket fills up it will just sit there and spin. So if you use a tractor you should put chains on it and a blade that angles.


all you need it 5-6 ton in weights!!!


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

If you are pulling it you'll probably make out all right. It seems like a big blade but I have an MX 255 with a 16 ft pusher on the front and it does well but your end plates are bigger so it will carry more snow. Avalanche actually makes a 20 ft pull type pusher and they have an 8760 Deere pulling it, so you should be fine.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Wow 6.6 ft high with 6.5ft end plates, I'm not so sure now that I think about it, that'alot of snow. Take some pics of it, I wouldn't mind seeing it.


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

Correct me if I am wrong. But, doesn't a 4386 have a stick shift? Thats goint to suck clutching and shifting. Most the big red headed girls. (IH 4x4) i have operated were like that, and all wore out so the did everything the hard way

J.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

JD Dave;596110 said:


> Wow 6.6 ft high with 6.5ft end plates, I'm not so sure now that I think about it, that'alot of snow. Take some pics of it, I wouldn't mind seeing it.


I did some quick math, that plow must weigh around 4 tons, it has the capacity to push 37 yards at a density of 10lbs per cu. ft thats 5 more tons. Thats way much snow, but I still think it will handle it. Its been my experience, once you reach a 4 foot moldboard, the snow wont fall over your plow. The snow will cone in front, and then start falling of on the sides. I hope you have a big, wide, open area to work in.


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

T-MAN;595283 said:


> I know a Canuck over in Ontario who was running them big ass Case machines with giant "pull boxes". Not sure if there still runnin em after they had one stolen in the middle of the day.


As far as I know that Canuck is still doing it.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

The tractor is a stick shift but the lot we're using it on is huge, 1,900,000 square feet of asphalt. My goal is to have this tractor be my work horse, I want it to take all the snow and move where it has to go. It's not going to be edging out around islands or doing anything else other than balls to the wall pushing a ton of snow. I have three other loaders and two other pick-ups on the lot to do all the nitty-gritty work and feed this big machine. I posted a picture of the tractor under an album, i think you have to click on name to access it. The machine is bare right now but as soon as we are done building the pusher and have it mounted on I will take a picture and post it.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

redman6565;596347 said:


> The tractor is a stick shift but the lot we're using it on is huge, 1,900,000 square feet of asphalt. My goal is to have this tractor be my work horse, I want it to take all the snow and move where it has to go. It's not going to be edging out around islands or doing anything else other than balls to the wall pushing a ton of snow. I have three other loaders and two other pick-ups on the lot to do all the nitty-gritty work and feed this big machine. I posted a picture of the tractor under an album, i think you have to click on name to access it. The machine is bare right now but as soon as we are done building the pusher and have it mounted on I will take a picture and post it.


Well a 43 acre lot would be good for a blade like that, hope it works well.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

so do i haha. but i'll keep you informed, it will definately be an "adventure" for the first couple of plow runs.


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## powerjoke (Nov 13, 2004)

i bet you'll need some font end weight. and may have to flatten the tire's a little.

the old international's werent verry heavy, and they werent power houses either. so we alway's used steiger's. so i don't know how well they push. but their are ALOT of articulated machines with blades out there,

best of luck

PJ


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

PJ. Those old Ih 4x4s were Stiegers. Just crapped up and painted red. everything but the cab and hood was stieger. I have been around way to many of them with the red flaking off the frames, and that ugly azz green showing through.

J.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Peterbilt;596717 said:


> PJ. Those old Ih 4x4s were Stiegers. Just crapped up and painted red. everything but the cab and hood was stieger. I have been around way to many of them with the red flaking off the frames, and that ugly azz green showing through.
> 
> J.


The new ones are still Steiger's but I thought the 4386's were still an IH but I could be wrong, I'll take your word for it Pete.


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## Peterbilt (Apr 28, 2007)

If you find one of them, scratch the paint on something below the cab or behind it. the scratch should be stieger green.
If I am correct, the IH's were based of the old bear cats and wild cats. 170 to 200hp range. IH did have a bigger one as well, but all they did was stretch the frame out. Kinda like what a Kinze JD mod does to a Deere 8630-50

Follow me?

J.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

You are right, the International back then were damn near exact replicas of the Steigers. There are a couple differences but not much. Eitherway this machine should plow some snow and hold its own. Hopefully. haha


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

picture should be attached to this post...


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

she's a beauty...haha...


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

I have to update some of my equipment pictures and then I will post them on here but I have to have, honestly, the oddest asortment of vehicles to plow snow with but it all works.


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## Grn Mtn (Sep 21, 2004)

*pict and vids*

make sure you bring a camcorder and set it up inside the cab of your IH, thats going to make some fantastic video's.

is this lot going to be pretreated or deiced at all?


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

yes we'll de-ice after we plow


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

Do you have any pics of the box plow?


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

not yet. I haven't finished the design yet. I'm playing with different ideas for lifts and tilts in the pusher. but as soon as im done, ill post it.


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## OfCourseYouCan (Oct 9, 2008)

*Smaller (50-70 hp) tractor*

Alright, I was crying :crying: about all the backing up I have to do to get my work done, and thinking of getting a comparatively small tractor to do my tiny parking lots. They are 1/4 acre to 2 acres at most. Anyone have insight on tractors in that range?

...43 acres parking?? I'll stop crying now:salute:


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

haha ya, its a big parking lot, wish i knew how to google map it cause i'd post it on here...


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

not sure if it works, but here is the plot for the lot. these must have not been updated recently because it shows the land being vacant still but if you look, veterans memorial drive arcs and it would be the south side of the arc is where that parking lot is. It stretches from the current holiday inn parking lot all the way to the office max.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...5913,-78.20343&spn=0.015469,0.022144&t=h&z=15


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

so i've given up on the big pusher idea. figured that if the tractor ever broke down, i wouldnt have another machine large enough to utilize that pusher but here is my next question:

for those of you that do have a machine similar to my size, what kind of connection to the pusher did you use? ive tossed around two ideas, one obviously being a direct connect and two was making a plate similar to a loader bucket so that a) the pusher is loosely connected and b) allows me to use another machine on that pusher because i dont have quick detach loader buckets. personally i think that if the pusher is directly connected, the connection will be extremely stiff and if the machine hits a curb or edge of a sidewalk, the concrete will crumble behind the machines weight and force.

any ideas? opinions? suggestions?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Try this, they use a few of them around here. http://www.avalancheplow.com/products_agri_tractor.php


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## Lynden-Jeff (May 21, 2006)

I have to ask, what kind of business has 43 acres of pavement? An airport!? lol


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Lynden-Jeff;624971 said:


> I have to ask, what kind of business has 43 acres of pavement? An airport!? lol


I have a distribution centre with 40 not sure what Redmans plowing though.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Target/Lowe's/PetSmart/Michaels all in one shopping center.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

good find JD, i never thought of something like that.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

JD Dave, like what you found and I will definately try it out but probably not this. I talked to avalanche and those pull behinds are going for 18,000+ each one, so funding this year wont happen but i watched the video and they are cool as hell!


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## Mark Witcher (Feb 21, 2004)

What does that pusher weigh that you built? I hope you got a large loader frame to pick it up.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

The pusher i am going to put on it is not the full sized one i envisioned at the start. i wanted something taller and deeper rather than wider however thinking about it, i would not be able to use that tractor pusher on any other machine so if the tractor broke down then i'd be screwed because my back up machines couldnt handle that size. So i built a 18' w x 4' d x 5' h. It probably weighs a couple ton after i welded supports and what not.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

here is how i am going to hook this tractor up to a pusher. figured it was better than creatting a quick-coupler plate because all of my loaders are standard buckets, so if this machine ever broke down and i had a quick coupler pusher, i'd be screwed. let me know what you think...


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Nice work


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

why thank you sir


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## Team_Arctic (Feb 24, 2008)

thats pretty sweet.. we have something similer to that lifting system on the forage blade on out tractor i just welded up a plate that goes accross with a 4x4 by 1/2 thick bar to slip into the push box then i modified the forage blade to fit the same hook up so its multi purpose


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

there she is up and running at full strength. i'll be honest, i'd buy another tractor before i'd ever buy another loader, hands down.


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## Schwinn68 (Jan 7, 2009)

that's a great looking setup there!


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## BrokenMRanch (Oct 30, 2006)

All I use is tractors and a couple skid loaders on my lots. They seem to go pretty fast, but the small lots are difficult with them. You can see my rigs in my photo album. We are using Degelman and Otter dozers on them.


Thats a good looking setup, I am curious as to how well the single wheels work in the snow on your IH.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

BrokenMRanch;708539 said:


> All I use is tractors and a couple skid loaders on my lots. They seem to go pretty fast, but the small lots are difficult with them. You can see my rigs in my photo album. We are using Degelman and Otter dozers on them.
> 
> Thats a good looking setup, I am curious as to how well the single wheels work in the snow on your IH.


honestly, good and bad. singles have better traction because obviously all the weight is on four tires instead of eight but the balance can be off at times. we just put the duels back on the tractor two days ago to test it out and see which way we liked better.


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## SnowedUnder (Apr 2, 2008)

I am an engineer and to be honest, I'm suprised that it's holding up. Maybe I'm losing perpective on size. How thick are your rails? Your box plates? I see that you cross braced the rail. Dammit, you amateur are going to put us out of business! LOL! How wide is the pusher?

BTW, I am NOT critisizing, just trying to help.


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## mmaddox (Dec 13, 2006)

*Ih 4366*

The IH 4366's (and 86's) use the DT466 (180hp) and 966 axles. The frame and cab were patterned after, and built by the Steiger Brothers. The axles tended to be on the weak side without the outboard planetaries. The clutch needs to be replace fairly often, and like all the 466's, the starter is a pain to change out. It better on the 4WD though. 
The push point MUST be from the pivot point, both from the strength standpoint as well as geometric. The sideplates are strong enough to handle the lifting, but you will need wear points to control the side thrust (think sway blocks on the three point). I think you will find you do better with the duals on, it looks like it's on 18.4's, and you will benefit from the additional sidewalls, flotation (when it does get off into soft ground), better tire wear, "spare" tire at all times. You may need to boost the power steering pressure to handle the additional poundage on the front. If it is left on site, plan on letting it runs for some time to warm the oil, or better yet, install oil heaters in both rear ends. If you will be running at night, an alternator upgrade would be a good idea. I would also think about a couple of fans to aid in de-fogging all the glass, the heater is pretty good, but doesn't put the air where it's needed.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

redman6565;708414 said:


> there she is up and running at full strength. i'll be honest, i'd buy another tractor before i'd ever buy another loader, hands down.


Looks good

To bad it aint GREEN


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*pusher blade mounting*



redman6565;650069 said:


> here is how I am going to hook this tractor up to a pusher, I figured it was better than creating a quick-coupler plate because all of my loaders are standard buckets, so if this machine ever broke down and i had a quick coupler pusher, i'd be screwed. Let me know what you think...


you need to add another set of gusset welds underneath it for the height of the mounting for the pusher plow.

Meaning- take the height distance of the pusher plow mounting bracket level to the ground, and weld another set of gusset weldments(the distance from the ground to the mount) to the one you have already built with a second one-just double exactly as you have done there to support it but shorter in height.

There is nothing wrong with what you did you simply have to double it in strength.

That is why pushers have the two tubular weldments to support the weight of the plow
when it is attached to the bucket of the machine used. One is used to hold the top in place, the other is used to hold the bottom in place and keep it in one place other wise it (the plow)would nose dive when loaded up.

Since you will be placing down pressure on the frame stress from pushing it gets transmitted to the welds and you will want to add more weld to the gussets too as they will flex and break(been there done that)and welding them into box shapes strengthens the entire piece with just little more metal between the gussets.

leon


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

i have the duels back on the machine to take stress off of the hubs and axles. I already cracked a hub when i had only 4 tires on it, so 8 are back on and so far so good.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Looks good Redmann.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

thanks JD!


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## Jon Schuler (Oct 14, 2006)

Ha Ha Ha, sorry to bust in on this but after 14 hours of plowing and getting home I saw this thread and said WTF. I actually laughed out loud. Plowing with a tracker....GEO tracker. Than I realized it said tractor....sorry Im tired.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

happy to report: the tractor was a success, might buy another one for next season. this machine out pushed my 5-yard, 25ton loader by double. machine only burned on average 3 gallons per hour compared to that loader that gulps 7 per hour.


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## RLM (Jan 12, 2006)

Good to here tractor worked out. How did season end up ?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

redman6565;778604 said:


> happy to report: the tractor was a success, might buy another one for next season. this machine out pushed my 5-yard, 25ton loader by double. machine only burned on average 3 gallons per hour compared to that loader that gulps 7 per hour.


I don't believe you, tractors are meant for dirt not snow.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

RLM;778615 said:


> Good to here tractor worked out. How did season end up ?


definately not as nice as it started but overall, we did well. had some curb damage this year though, that's been costly


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

JD Dave;778631 said:


> I don't believe you, tractors are meant for dirt not snow.


what about dirty snow? haha


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## Ramairfreak98ss (Aug 17, 2005)

i used my new 4720 cab deere this winter a couple times, its awesome, much easier to see than a skid steer sitting down so damn low


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

well boys, we're recruting another 4x4 tractor just waiting on confirmation for another property. i was wondering and maybe JD Dave would have the best insight but, would farmers be interested in "loaning" their tractors during winter months? I was thinking about asking some local guys but wasn't sure if that's a dumb question or not. It would save me on having to buy and maintain it myself plus i figured it'd be a win for them cause it keeps income coming in during the winter.


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## GK Snow Removal (Aug 15, 2009)

tractors are very good 2 use on farms ilike them


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

any recommendations for counter weight on the back of the tractor? anyone not use weight and still not have traction problems? I'm stuck between calcium filling tires or strapping that concrete barrier to the back again but i'm afraid too much weight directly on the back and front is causing the tractor to flex in the middle on the center pin which is no good.


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## leon (Nov 18, 2008)

*weight etc.*

If you load the tires half full with rim guard or calcium chloride you will be better off as the weight will be centered over the axle stubs and not put any extra strain on the articulating pins- but the articulating pins and bushings need to be greased weekly if not daily if bronze is used.

leon :waving:


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

that's what i'm leaning towards


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## dodge2500 (Aug 20, 2009)

We are farmers and we plow snow commercially but as far as weighting the tractor, with our 9200 deere we built a weight bracket that is centered over the back axle. It holds 27 suit case weights and it works great. We also have 3 wheel weights on each outside wheel as well. We have to weight it down a lot to make it through the mud in tomato harvest. We have gotten away from using calcium in the tires. I hope this helps.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

dodge2500;855907 said:


> We are farmers and we plow snow commercially but as far as weighting the tractor, with our 9200 deere we built a weight bracket that is centered over the back axle. It holds 27 suit case weights and it works great. We also have 3 wheel weights on each outside wheel as well. We have to weight it down a lot to make it through the mud in tomato harvest. We have gotten away from using calcium in the tires. I hope this helps.


anyway you can send my some pictures? [email protected]


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

dodge2500;855907 said:


> We are farmers and we plow snow commercially but as far as weighting the tractor, with our 9200 deere we built a weight bracket that is centered over the back axle. It holds 27 suit case weights and it works great. We also have 3 wheel weights on each outside wheel as well. We have to weight it down a lot to make it through the mud in tomato harvest. We have gotten away from using calcium in the tires. I hope this helps.


how much to wheel weights go for generally? i checked with a local junk yard and they're telling me, i want to say, a couple hundred dollars a piece for each weight, that sound about right?


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

redman6565;593389 said:


> Anyone ever attempt to use a 4x4 Farm Tractor with a pusher on a commercial lot before? If so, did it work out or was the machine too big?


Like this?


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Kubota 8540;932123 said:


> Like this?
> View attachment 68512


no, i asked about and am using these ussmileyflag


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

redman6565;932193 said:


> no, i asked about and am using these ussmileyflag


Is that all you got?:laughing:


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Kubota 8540;933085 said:


> Is that all you got?:laughing:


for now, i'd like a whole fleet of tractors someday though. i'm trying to persuade some local farmers to loan me theirs during the winter months until i can afford a few more.


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## Kubota 8540 (Sep 25, 2009)

redman6565;933119 said:


> for now, i'd like a whole fleet of tractors someday though. i'm trying to persuade some local farmers to loan me theirs during the winter months until i can afford a few more.


I have plowed with everything from 1/2 tons, 3/4 tons, 1 tons, and skidsteers. With the 1 tons and skidsteers I thought I had the perfect plows, but they don't come close to plowing with a tractor! I don't plow lots the size you do, my largest is 1.5 acres with 3/4 mile of 2 lane road to get there. But you simply can't compare a tractor to anything else. The visibility is excellent, the Horsepower to push is awesome, and the traction is incredible. I do quite a few steep hillside drives that others won't attempt with a truck. As far as fuel consumption, the 1 ton sucked 2.75 gal/hr, the skisteer drank 1-1.25 gal/hr, but this 85hp turbo diesel sips 3/4-1 gal /hr. I guess you could say I'm convinced and hooked on plowing with a tractor no matter what size it is.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Kubota 8540;933298 said:


> I have plowed with everything from 1/2 tons, 3/4 tons, 1 tons, and skidsteers. With the 1 tons and skidsteers I thought I had the perfect plows, but they don't come close to plowing with a tractor! I don't plow lots the size you do, my largest is 1.5 acres with 3/4 mile of 2 lane road to get there. But you simply can't compare a tractor to anything else. The visibility is excellent, the Horsepower to push is awesome, and the traction is incredible. I do quite a few steep hillside drives that others won't attempt with a truck. As far as fuel consumption, the 1 ton sucked 2.75 gal/hr, the skisteer drank 1-1.25 gal/hr, but this 85hp turbo diesel sips 3/4-1 gal /hr. I guess you could say I'm convinced and hooked on plowing with a tractor no matter what size it is.


agreed. that tractor burns maybe, worse case, 3 gal.hr. my 5-yard kawasaki 90-z III burns 7-8 gal. hr. its phenominal the fuel consumption difference


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

redman6565;933315 said:


> agreed. that tractor burns maybe, worse case, 3 gal.hr. my 5-yard kawasaki 90-z III burns 7-8 gal. hr. its phenominal the fuel consumption difference


You guys are so far behind you think your first.  LOL Another one of my Dads sayings.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

JD Dave;933453 said:


> You guys are so far behind you think your first.  LOL Another one of my Dads sayings.


:laughing:. say JD, does a $200 US sound about right for each wheel weight? that's what i guy told me from a local scrap yard


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

redman6565;933484 said:


> :laughing:. say JD, does a $200 US sound about right for each wheel weight? that's what i guy told me from a local scrap yard


Sounds pretty good but I really don't know what they cost. How much do they weigh?


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

JD Dave;933927 said:


> Sounds pretty good but I really don't know what they cost. How much do they weigh?


good question. i called and asked a broad question for tractor wheel weights, never thought about different sizes. i just told him the size of my tractor and he came back with a price.


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## redman6565 (Jul 14, 2008)

Neige;596301 said:


> I did some quick math, that plow must weigh around 4 tons, it has the capacity to push 37 yards at a density of 10lbs per cu. ft thats 5 more tons. Thats way much snow, but I still think it will handle it. Its been my experience, once you reach a 4 foot moldboard, the snow wont fall over your plow. The snow will cone in front, and then start falling of on the sides. I hope you have a big, wide, open area to work in.


going back and re-reading all of this. i never did finish that pusher. the more i thought about it, the more i agreed with you guys that it was going to be too tall and too deep. still works like champ though with a standard 16 ft wide pro-tech pusher.


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