# Anyone spread salt or sand by hand?



## Maleko (Sep 20, 2004)

No, I'm not looking for advice I have a spreader..

But one of my buddies got underbid on a commercial lot this year that he had for some time.
No he didn't not do a good enough job the owner told him that he needed to cut cost on the landscaping and snow removal. he understood and just couldn't drop his price anymore. he hasn't raised his prices in 5 years....

So the other storm we were driving by this lot , and low and behold there is an ole beat up truck with a brand-new plow on the front and two guys in the back shoveling out sand by hand.
Ok. well that has to suk. But we have also noticed this same guy doing multiple lots in the area doing this on all their lots... And all the lots we noticed they did are just a plain mess.
I just don't think people care anymore if their lot is clean. Just looking for that final low number. We have had a crappy winter here so far and the long range outlook doesn't look so great. Im hoping it will weed all these guys out...

How do you compete with this type of a service?


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## nick4634 (Nov 4, 2011)

Sell your fancy new equipment, buy old rusty epuipment, go down to a Texas Home depot, and hire 2 sand spreaders


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## SharpBlades (Sep 13, 2009)

I had to spread by hand last week. The v blad broke down so I was stuck with the backup truck and a hand spreader then the spreader broke lol. 

How to compete? Don't. Go after the accounts that they can't handle. Sell why you are better, not snow plowing


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## LB1234 (Oct 17, 2006)

nick4634;1426315 said:


> Sell your fancy new equipment, buy old rusty epuipment, go down to a Texas Home depot, and hire 2 sand spreaders


best part is the sander is considered disposable. Once used up you just get a replacement at little to no cost!!


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Brings back memories of my first year plowing/salting eons ago.Stuck my 2 young brothers -in-law in the back of my 1970 GMC 6500 dump truck with shovels and about 3 yards of salted sand for the entire route,mostly apartment complexes.After the usual sibling rivalry BS,them ''accidentally'' hitting each other with said shovels,they were like a well oiled machine in getting the knack of a proper spread pattern down. Funny now that I think about it.


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## Chillerq (Feb 3, 2011)

I am not a lowballer. However, I do have a 84 k20 that looks like it went to hell and back, a 97 ford and a jd 4500 backhoe. I do Not own a salt spreader for my trucks. We salt using lesco bulk spreaders. I use this set up on small commercials and my condo that I take care of. When we first took over these accounts we were complimented on our job, "terrific". Now Im not saying I wwouldnt like to have a salt spreader but I have my guys doing the sidewalks anyway why not have them hand salt the lots. Im paying them to work. I maintain a high level of quality, having the right tools does help but I think some of us just dont like investing all our money in a season that is based on chance. Now the guys you describe sound like fly by nighters but dont judge all of us by our equipment.


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## Chillerq (Feb 3, 2011)

How do we compete. stick to your guns. Ive been around my area for 20 years people know us to take pride in our work. When they leave us they come back. I lost a job this season to a guy in a ford explorer.... he didnt show to the property until a hour after the storm. Im sure she wishes she stayed with me. How long have you been in business?


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## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Spread by hand for the first 6 years or so.Remember putting truck in granny low and jumping in the back and spreading by hand. I was always convincing myself that the lots were fine, sun would melt it.Once you get a sander your salt usage goes way up!
Spreading by hand is a lost art.(thankfully)


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## DodgeBlizzard (Nov 7, 2003)

So your buddy lost a lot. Why does it matter how old or rusty the other guys plow truck is? Why does it matter if they throw the salt down by hand or if they sit inside the truck and flip a switch to get it done? In the end, they got the job done just as your buddy would have. Times are tough and maybe they only have a couple lots that need salt and purchasing a spreader isn't needed yet. Put yourself in the customers shoes. If you owned a property and found someone cheaper to do the same job, would you care if they were there a little longer? Would you really care if they had a shiny new truck or an old beat up truck? As long as they show up and get the job done, all is well. Now if they can charge less? It's a no brainer. It's just snow.


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

I do sidewalks at a building my family owns, I salt those by hands, and the plow company does the parking lot sand by hand, they are a well oiled machine and do a great job.


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## procut (Dec 1, 2004)

A guy who plows a lot next to one that I do salts it by hand. He has a half yard or so of bulk dumped in the box of his truck. Once he's done plowing, he jumps in the back with a scoop shovel and starts fliging salt. He'll then get back in and move the truck, then do the next area. Repeat untill the lot is done. It's not a real small lot either, I would say it has to be every bit of 25,000 squre feet. 

Laugh if you must, but when I've driven back by a few hours later, (after the open of business) his lot is usually just wet pavement. I don't really see any excess piles of salt or anything laying there either. I always wonder what goes through his mind when he looks next door and sees me with my snowex salting away from the heated cab and he's out in the cold and wind flinging salt with a shovel; but a few hours later, the two lots look basically the same, maybe he's the smart one.


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## terrain1 (Nov 27, 2011)

there is no real way to compete if they are low balling. cant lower prices to match because then you loss money anyway. Best bet is let them have it and wait for the call back if the job sucks. i have lost jobs to low bids and had customers call in the middle of a storm and ask for help because the new guy isn't there or cant keep up and I am always willing to help but only if they come back for the rest of the season and most do.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Chillerq;1426394 said:


> I am not a lowballer. However, I do have a 84 k20 that looks like it went to hell and back, a 97 ford and a jd 4500 backhoe. I do Not own a salt spreader for my trucks. We salt using lesco bulk spreaders. I use this set up on small commercials and my condo that I take care of. When we first took over these accounts we were complimented on our job, "terrific". Now Im not saying I wwouldnt like to have a salt spreader but I have my guys doing the sidewalks anyway why not have them hand salt the lots. Im paying them to work. I maintain a high level of quality, having the right tools does help but I think some of us just dont like investing all our money in a season that is based on chance. Now the guys you describe sound like fly by nighters but dont judge all of us by our equipment.


How big of an area are you covering? I spread 4 ton of salt on one lot. Spreading that by hand????? NO. That would be dumb.


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

I only have two small commercial lots that require ice control so i do them with my nice lesco WB push spreader. While sure it sucks and i feel kind of like an idiot, I would feel more like an idiot spending $4k on a spreader that would barely get used! Thing is, I don't lowball the applications either so i feel justified in what i'm doing.


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## CSLC (Jan 16, 2008)

The guy I sub for we salt his by hand....He owns a 2 yd salted that will fit in his chevy3500 dump truck and insists by hand is better.....I think he is full of s&^%


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## Chillerq (Feb 3, 2011)

Philbilly2;1426892 said:


> How big of an area are you covering? I spread 4 ton of salt on one lot. Spreading that by hand????? NO. That would be dumb.


I go through about a ton of salt a event. Give or take ice conditions. I never said to salt a huge parking lot with a walk behind spreader. But for me in my situation it is cost effective to salt by hand. I was just providing a reason to why some dont by expensive salt machines to have them sit 9 months out of the year. Because while a machine sits its costing you money not making you money.


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## old.goalie (Jan 10, 2011)

Am I naive here, but how are these pick up trucks carrying so much weight
("How big of an area are you covering? I spread 4 ton of salt on one lot. Spreading that by hand????? NO. That would be dumb")
and then spread it by hand? WTF

I'm going to check the invoices again but my Ford F350 (which is a one ton) is rated only to carry two tons over the rear axle (truck bed). My snowex spreader says it holds two tons, combined with the weight of the snowex makes me overweight. Thats why we upgraded the suspension, brakes etc. so we don't sag and become a danger on the highway/roads.


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## procut (Dec 1, 2004)

old.goalie;1427167 said:


> Am I naive here, but how are these pick up trucks carrying so much weight
> ("How big of an area are you covering? I spread 4 ton of salt on one lot. Spreading that by hand????? NO. That would be dumb")
> and then spread it by hand? WTF
> 
> I'm going to check the invoices again but my Ford F350 (which is a one ton) is rated only to carry two tons over the rear axle (truck bed). My snowex spreader says it holds two tons, combined with the weight of the snowex makes me overweight. Thats why we upgraded the suspension, brakes etc. so we don't sag and become a danger on the highway/roads.


I would guess the spreader is on a larger truck, C6500, f-650, International 4700, ect. Or a dump truck with an undertailgate spreader.


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## Flawless440 (Dec 6, 2010)

If you have the time to salt by hand, on salt runs some of my commercial stops are 5 min, easy $200

25 stops there's no time to get out of the truck


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## H&HPropertyMait (Oct 17, 2011)

What a waste of time!


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## alldayrj (Feb 28, 2010)

I thought by hand was the only way until I joined this site.


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## CSLC (Jan 16, 2008)

I use 14-18 bags of salt each salting event....


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## Canplow (Dec 28, 2011)

I bet the guys that salt by hand would be a good bet in an arm wrestle!wesport That is what they do in portugal!:laughing:


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## OrganicsL&L (Jan 30, 2009)

I salt by hand....or by walk behind spreader. Of course I would love to have a tailgate/vbox spreader, but at this point it doesn't make financial sense for me to do that. I am putting about 6-700lbs down on a full round of salting, and it really doesn't take too long, so I don't mind. I will eventually invest in one, but for now, its all good...character building for my 14 year old that has to come out and help too.

Start where you with what you have is what I believe.


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## Maleko (Sep 20, 2004)

I guess a lot spread by hand. I just don't see how you can get uniform coverage?
From the ones i've seen hand spread there's usually piles of sand /salt and a little around it. Big patches of wet pavement and a lot of ice around it.

What ever floats your boat i guess. Im not knocking anyone who doesn't have or can't afford one. Just don't see how it can be spread evenly. That would be my only concern.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

old.goalie;1427167 said:


> Am I naive here, but how are these pick up trucks carrying so much weight
> ("How big of an area are you covering? I spread 4 ton of salt on one lot. Spreading that by hand????? NO. That would be dumb")
> and then spread it by hand? WTF
> 
> I'm going to check the invoices again but my Ford F350 (which is a one ton) is rated only to carry two tons over the rear axle (truck bed). My snowex spreader says it holds two tons, combined with the weight of the snowex makes me overweight. Thats why we upgraded the suspension, brakes etc. so we don't sag and become a danger on the highway/roads.





procut;1427363 said:


> I would guess the spreader is on a larger truck, C6500, f-650, International 4700, ect. Or a dump truck with an undertailgate spreader.


In my case, the pile is on site and I load it with the skid loader that I push the lot with.


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## LB1234 (Oct 17, 2006)

what they are charging means nothing. What they are profiting means everything. Bottom line...we have no idea what it costs other companies to operate and break even. I can charge 20 a driveway and someone can charge 35...if we are both profiting 10 bucks from the account...am I the lowballer?


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## nh785 (Oct 22, 2009)

way back that was what every one did. Mostly used salt sand 20 years ago. We used to do all properties by hand. It was work but 2 guys were just about as fast as a spreader and it was on art. A good thrower in the back and it looked like a machine did it. Had to trust the driver if you were in back, hit the gas at the wrong time and out of the truck you went. Thank god for technology. Today it is way more efficient due to affordable spreaders.


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

I think my lots always looked better when done by my walk behind...nothing facy either, just a Scott's grass seed spreader. Took forever but it looked good. The tailgate spreader is faster but uses far more salt.


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## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

JTVLandscaping;1429535 said:


> I think my lots always looked better when done by my walk behind...nothing facy either, just a Scott's grass seed spreader. Took forever but it looked good. The tailgate spreader is faster but uses far more salt.


I use that now. Didnt make sense to go buy a slat spreader for 300 bucks, I dont have that cash!


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## Jacobsmovinsnow (Jan 12, 2011)

I have 4 machines to salt and sand however still salt by hand. We load our Aveos with about a dozen 5 gal pails of bulk salt.(Only the drivers seat is left, rest are out.) and some specialty bagged stuff for the tree huggers and salt walkways and hard to reach places with em.. When I do lot checks I take a Aveo with salt and will hand salt icy spots here and there.


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## DistinctiveDave (Jan 26, 2006)

Before I started working where I am now, the owner had the guys salt the biggest parking lot we do with a Massey tractor and hand loading a 3pt fert spreader on that thing.....it had to take forever cause I use about 4 tons to salt the place.

On average, between salting during the storm and then when we are done plowing, I run anywhere from 10-12 tons per storm. Salting by hand is out of the question.

I agree though, there is a time and place for everything. Our guys "hand salt" all the driveways we do, By hand, not a push spreader


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## Jacobsmovinsnow (Jan 12, 2011)

hand salting is fine , but dont leave it to a new employee to spread it out showing the proper technique other wise days later there will be still small piles of salt left due to over salting. Just my 2c


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## DistinctiveDave (Jan 26, 2006)

Jacobsmovinsnow;1429681 said:


> hand salting is fine , but dont leave it to a new employee to spread it out showing the proper technique other wise days later there will be still small piles of salt left due to over salting. Just my 2c


LOL

The first time out in December I had to send the guys back out the following day with back pack blowers because they put way too much salt down on sidewalks.


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## sven1277 (Jan 15, 2008)

I did...once. I was in a hurry and on the phone and backed my truck with the spreader off my driveway and got it stuck. To the point that it took me an hour using my mini ex to pull it out sideways. I had to take the other dump truck w/o a spreader to the bulk pile to load, then to the property. If I was just watching my mirrors... I do now have 2 spreaders


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## Deut2210a (Jan 16, 2012)

*doing it cheaper won't put you out of business in a slow winter*

The guys who are likely to be driving the beat up trucks around next year are the ones who over-invested this year. Well maybe it doesn't happen in a year but my guess is there will be more cheap contractors the year following a slow winter because there wasn't as much money to invest in good equipment. A poor man has less to loose. Prov 13:8


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## linycctitan (Aug 13, 2007)

I've salted some of my lots with my Earthway and lesco walk behinds on a few occasions, when either the vbox was down or the truck that carries it. Not fun, much more time consuming, results were just as good and salt usage was drastically reduced (as was my waistline!!!).


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